{ "cells": [ { "cell_type": "markdown", "metadata": { "id": "A6iFUUQLNDlE" }, "source": [ "\n", " \n", " \n", " \n", "
\n", " Run in Google Colab\n", " \n", " View on Github\n", " \n", " View raw on Github\n", "
" ] }, { "cell_type": "markdown", "metadata": { "id": "h4eihRlkqj20" }, "source": [ "# Module 13: Texts" ] }, { "cell_type": "markdown", "metadata": { "id": "dKb2EmmQqj25" }, "source": [ "We'll use `spaCy` and `wordcloud` to play with text data. `spaCy` is probably the best python package for analyzing text data. It's capable and super fast. Let's install them.\n", "\n", " pip install wordcloud spacy\n", " \n", "To use spaCy, you also need to download models. Run:\n", "\n", " python -m spacy download en_core_web_sm\n", " " ] }, { "cell_type": "markdown", "metadata": {}, "source": [ "\n", "## SpaCy basics" ] }, { "cell_type": "code", "execution_count": 3, "metadata": { "executionInfo": { "elapsed": 1900, "status": "ok", "timestamp": 1689627954601, "user": { "displayName": "Vincent Wong", "userId": "06927694896148305320" }, "user_tz": 240 }, "id": "Slbp2c0Oqj26", "jupyter": { "outputs_hidden": false } }, "outputs": [], "source": [ "import spacy\n", "import wordcloud\n", "\n", "nlp = spacy.load('en_core_web_sm')" ] }, { "cell_type": "markdown", "metadata": { "id": "_AQtwc92qj27" }, "source": [ "Usually the first step of text analysis is _tokenization_, which is the process of breaking a document into \"tokens\". You can roughly think of it as extracting each word." ] }, { "cell_type": "code", "execution_count": 15, "metadata": { "id": "pzYlzk3-qj28", "outputId": "87d542d1-6ee6-4ce7-8586-e9b303eff03a" }, "outputs": [ { "name": "stdout", "output_type": "stream", "text": [ "Apple\n", "is\n", "looking\n", "at\n", "buying\n", "U.K.\n", "startup\n", "for\n", "$\n", "1\n", "billion\n" ] } ], "source": [ "doc = nlp(u'Apple is looking at buying U.K. startup for $1 billion')\n", "\n", "for token in doc:\n", " print(token)" ] }, { "cell_type": "markdown", "metadata": { "id": "71GWYf40qj29" }, "source": [ "As you can see, it's not exactly same as `doc.split()`. You'd want to have `$` as a separate token because it has a particular meaning (USD). Actually, as shown in an example (https://spacy.io/usage/spacy-101#annotations-pos-deps), `spaCy` figures out a lot of things about these tokens. For instance," ] }, { "cell_type": "code", "execution_count": 16, "metadata": { "id": "FH8gLEZlqj2-", "outputId": "a76c0a5a-b9e7-4759-a75c-8ee313b130c1" }, "outputs": [ { "name": "stdout", "output_type": "stream", "text": [ "Apple Apple PROPN NNP\n", "is be AUX VBZ\n", "looking look VERB VBG\n", "at at ADP IN\n", "buying buy VERB VBG\n", "U.K. U.K. PROPN NNP\n", "startup startup VERB VBD\n", "for for ADP IN\n", "$ $ SYM $\n", "1 1 NUM CD\n", "billion billion NUM CD\n" ] } ], "source": [ "for token in doc:\n", " print(token.text, token.lemma_, token.pos_, token.tag_)" ] }, { "cell_type": "markdown", "metadata": { "id": "aoDcSZhDqj2_" }, "source": [ "It figured it out that `Apple` is a proper noun (\"PROPN\" and \"NNP\"; see [here](https://www.ling.upenn.edu/courses/Fall_2003/ling001/penn_treebank_pos.html) for the part of speech tags)." ] }, { "cell_type": "markdown", "metadata": { "id": "O2QaHNS9qj3C" }, "source": [ "## Let's read a book\n", "\n", "Shall we load some serious book? You can use any books that you can find as a text file." ] }, { "cell_type": "code", "execution_count": 23, "metadata": { "id": "dP0oTTDkqj3C", "jupyter": { "outputs_hidden": false } }, "outputs": [], "source": [ "import urllib.request\n", "\n", "book = urllib.request.urlopen('https://sherlock-holm.es/stories/plain-text/stud.txt').read()" ] }, { "cell_type": "code", "execution_count": 24, "metadata": { "id": "Ad2xyNTaqj3C", "outputId": "82052b89-20b0-4f44-c252-f5d0dfe533c9" }, "outputs": [ { "data": { "text/plain": [ "b'\\n\\n\\n\\n A STUDY IN SCARLET\\n\\n Arthur Conan Doyle\\n\\n\\n\\n\\n\\n\\n\\n Table of contents\\n\\n Part I\\n Mr. Sherlock Holmes\\n The Science Of Deduction\\n The Lauriston Garden Mystery\\n What John Rance Had To Tell\\n Our Advertisement Brings A Visitor\\n Tobias Gregson Shows What He Can Do\\n Light In The Darkness\\n\\n Part II\\n On The Great Alkali Plain\\n The Flower Of Utah\\n John Ferrier Talks With The Prophet\\n A Flight For Life\\n The Avenging Angels\\n A Continuation Of The Reminiscences Of John Watson, M.D.\\n The Conclusion\\n\\n\\n\\n\\n\\n\\n\\n\\n\\n\\n\\n\\n\\n\\n\\n\\n\\n\\n\\n PART I\\n\\n (Being a reprint from the reminiscences of\\n John H. Watson, M.D.,\\n late of the Army Medical Department.)\\n\\n\\n\\n\\n\\n CHAPTER I\\n Mr. Sherlock Holmes\\n\\n\\n In t'" ] }, "execution_count": 24, "metadata": {}, "output_type": "execute_result" } ], "source": [ "book[:1000]" ] }, { "cell_type": "markdown", "metadata": { "id": "ALGugU-oqj3D" }, "source": [ "Looks like we have successfully loaded the book. You'd probably want to remove the parts at the beginning and at the end that are not parts of the book if you are doing a serious analysis, but let's ignore them for now. Let's try to feed this directly into `spaCy`. " ] }, { "cell_type": "code", "execution_count": 25, "metadata": { "id": "4_L5EDjbqj3D", "outputId": "fc7b4c29-945d-434c-9b9d-c346af7c2831" }, "outputs": [ { "ename": "ExtraData", "evalue": "unpack(b) received extra data.", "output_type": "error", "traceback": [ "\u001b[31m---------------------------------------------------------------------------\u001b[39m", "\u001b[31mExtraData\u001b[39m Traceback (most recent call last)", "\u001b[36mCell\u001b[39m\u001b[36m \u001b[39m\u001b[32mIn[25]\u001b[39m\u001b[32m, line 1\u001b[39m\n\u001b[32m----> \u001b[39m\u001b[32m1\u001b[39m doc = \u001b[43mnlp\u001b[49m\u001b[43m(\u001b[49m\u001b[43mbook\u001b[49m\u001b[43m)\u001b[49m\n", "\u001b[36mFile \u001b[39m\u001b[32m~/git/dataviz-solutions/.venv/lib/python3.12/site-packages/spacy/language.py:1040\u001b[39m, in \u001b[36mLanguage.__call__\u001b[39m\u001b[34m(self, text, disable, component_cfg)\u001b[39m\n\u001b[32m 1019\u001b[39m \u001b[38;5;28;01mdef\u001b[39;00m\u001b[38;5;250m \u001b[39m\u001b[34m__call__\u001b[39m(\n\u001b[32m 1020\u001b[39m \u001b[38;5;28mself\u001b[39m,\n\u001b[32m 1021\u001b[39m text: Union[\u001b[38;5;28mstr\u001b[39m, Doc],\n\u001b[32m (...)\u001b[39m\u001b[32m 1024\u001b[39m component_cfg: Optional[Dict[\u001b[38;5;28mstr\u001b[39m, Dict[\u001b[38;5;28mstr\u001b[39m, Any]]] = \u001b[38;5;28;01mNone\u001b[39;00m,\n\u001b[32m 1025\u001b[39m ) -> Doc:\n\u001b[32m 1026\u001b[39m \u001b[38;5;250m \u001b[39m\u001b[33;03m\"\"\"Apply the pipeline to some text. The text can span multiple sentences,\u001b[39;00m\n\u001b[32m 1027\u001b[39m \u001b[33;03m and can contain arbitrary whitespace. Alignment into the original string\u001b[39;00m\n\u001b[32m 1028\u001b[39m \u001b[33;03m is preserved.\u001b[39;00m\n\u001b[32m (...)\u001b[39m\u001b[32m 1038\u001b[39m \u001b[33;03m DOCS: https://spacy.io/api/language#call\u001b[39;00m\n\u001b[32m 1039\u001b[39m \u001b[33;03m \"\"\"\u001b[39;00m\n\u001b[32m-> \u001b[39m\u001b[32m1040\u001b[39m doc = \u001b[38;5;28;43mself\u001b[39;49m\u001b[43m.\u001b[49m\u001b[43m_ensure_doc\u001b[49m\u001b[43m(\u001b[49m\u001b[43mtext\u001b[49m\u001b[43m)\u001b[49m\n\u001b[32m 1041\u001b[39m \u001b[38;5;28;01mif\u001b[39;00m component_cfg \u001b[38;5;129;01mis\u001b[39;00m \u001b[38;5;28;01mNone\u001b[39;00m:\n\u001b[32m 1042\u001b[39m component_cfg = {}\n", "\u001b[36mFile \u001b[39m\u001b[32m~/git/dataviz-solutions/.venv/lib/python3.12/site-packages/spacy/language.py:1133\u001b[39m, in \u001b[36mLanguage._ensure_doc\u001b[39m\u001b[34m(self, doc_like)\u001b[39m\n\u001b[32m 1131\u001b[39m \u001b[38;5;28;01mreturn\u001b[39;00m \u001b[38;5;28mself\u001b[39m.make_doc(doc_like)\n\u001b[32m 1132\u001b[39m \u001b[38;5;28;01mif\u001b[39;00m \u001b[38;5;28misinstance\u001b[39m(doc_like, \u001b[38;5;28mbytes\u001b[39m):\n\u001b[32m-> \u001b[39m\u001b[32m1133\u001b[39m \u001b[38;5;28;01mreturn\u001b[39;00m \u001b[43mDoc\u001b[49m\u001b[43m(\u001b[49m\u001b[38;5;28;43mself\u001b[39;49m\u001b[43m.\u001b[49m\u001b[43mvocab\u001b[49m\u001b[43m)\u001b[49m\u001b[43m.\u001b[49m\u001b[43mfrom_bytes\u001b[49m\u001b[43m(\u001b[49m\u001b[43mdoc_like\u001b[49m\u001b[43m)\u001b[49m\n\u001b[32m 1134\u001b[39m \u001b[38;5;28;01mraise\u001b[39;00m \u001b[38;5;167;01mValueError\u001b[39;00m(Errors.E1041.format(\u001b[38;5;28mtype\u001b[39m=\u001b[38;5;28mtype\u001b[39m(doc_like)))\n", "\u001b[36mFile \u001b[39m\u001b[32m~/git/dataviz-solutions/.venv/lib/python3.12/site-packages/spacy/tokens/doc.pyx:1362\u001b[39m, in \u001b[36mspacy.tokens.doc.Doc.from_bytes\u001b[39m\u001b[34m()\u001b[39m\n", "\u001b[36mFile \u001b[39m\u001b[32m~/git/dataviz-solutions/.venv/lib/python3.12/site-packages/srsly/_msgpack_api.py:27\u001b[39m, in \u001b[36mmsgpack_loads\u001b[39m\u001b[34m(data, use_list)\u001b[39m\n\u001b[32m 25\u001b[39m \u001b[38;5;66;03m# msgpack-python docs suggest disabling gc before unpacking large messages\u001b[39;00m\n\u001b[32m 26\u001b[39m gc.disable()\n\u001b[32m---> \u001b[39m\u001b[32m27\u001b[39m msg = \u001b[43mmsgpack\u001b[49m\u001b[43m.\u001b[49m\u001b[43mloads\u001b[49m\u001b[43m(\u001b[49m\u001b[43mdata\u001b[49m\u001b[43m,\u001b[49m\u001b[43m \u001b[49m\u001b[43mraw\u001b[49m\u001b[43m=\u001b[49m\u001b[38;5;28;43;01mFalse\u001b[39;49;00m\u001b[43m,\u001b[49m\u001b[43m \u001b[49m\u001b[43muse_list\u001b[49m\u001b[43m=\u001b[49m\u001b[43muse_list\u001b[49m\u001b[43m)\u001b[49m\n\u001b[32m 28\u001b[39m gc.enable()\n\u001b[32m 29\u001b[39m \u001b[38;5;28;01mreturn\u001b[39;00m msg\n", "\u001b[36mFile \u001b[39m\u001b[32m~/git/dataviz-solutions/.venv/lib/python3.12/site-packages/srsly/msgpack/__init__.py:85\u001b[39m, in \u001b[36munpackb\u001b[39m\u001b[34m(packed, **kwargs)\u001b[39m\n\u001b[32m 83\u001b[39m object_hook = functools.partial(decoder, chain=object_hook)\n\u001b[32m 84\u001b[39m kwargs[\u001b[33m\"\u001b[39m\u001b[33mobject_hook\u001b[39m\u001b[33m\"\u001b[39m] = object_hook\n\u001b[32m---> \u001b[39m\u001b[32m85\u001b[39m \u001b[38;5;28;01mreturn\u001b[39;00m \u001b[43m_unpackb\u001b[49m\u001b[43m(\u001b[49m\u001b[43mpacked\u001b[49m\u001b[43m,\u001b[49m\u001b[43m \u001b[49m\u001b[43m*\u001b[49m\u001b[43m*\u001b[49m\u001b[43mkwargs\u001b[49m\u001b[43m)\u001b[49m\n", "\u001b[36mFile \u001b[39m\u001b[32m~/git/dataviz-solutions/.venv/lib/python3.12/site-packages/srsly/msgpack/_unpacker.pyx:213\u001b[39m, in \u001b[36msrsly.msgpack._unpacker.unpackb\u001b[39m\u001b[34m()\u001b[39m\n", "\u001b[31mExtraData\u001b[39m: unpack(b) received extra data." ] } ], "source": [ "doc = nlp(book)" ] }, { "cell_type": "markdown", "metadata": { "id": "-Lo5MRYaqj3D" }, "source": [ "## On encodings\n", "\n", "What are we getting this error? What does it mean? It says `nlp` function expects `str` type but we passed `bytes`." ] }, { "cell_type": "code", "execution_count": 26, "metadata": { "id": "VBZn3Cobqj3E", "outputId": "8fe25f2b-ef4d-4aef-a57f-ea2110c11c92" }, "outputs": [ { "data": { "text/plain": [ "bytes" ] }, "execution_count": 26, "metadata": {}, "output_type": "execute_result" } ], "source": [ "type(book)" ] }, { "cell_type": "markdown", "metadata": { "id": "LI6iPTv2qj3E" }, "source": [ "Indeed, the type of `metamorphosis_book` is `bytes`. But as we have seen above, we can see the book contents right? What's going on?\n", "\n", "Well, the problem is that a byte sequence is not yet a proper string until we know how to decode it. A string is an abstract object and we need to specify an encoding to write the string into a file. For instance, if I have a string of Korean characters like \"안녕\", there are several encodings that I can specify to write that into a file, and depending on the encoding that I choose, the byte sequences can be totally different from each other. This is a really important (and confusing) topic, but because it's beyond the scope of the course, I'll just link a nice post about encoding: http://kunststube.net/encoding/" ] }, { "cell_type": "code", "execution_count": 27, "metadata": { "id": "ucWPYg8oqj3E", "outputId": "c644cc68-95fa-4e7a-b326-6fab7aa6b9fd" }, "outputs": [ { "data": { "text/plain": [ "b'\\xec\\x95\\x88\\xeb\\x85\\x95'" ] }, "execution_count": 27, "metadata": {}, "output_type": "execute_result" } ], "source": [ "\"안녕\".encode('utf8')" ] }, { "cell_type": "code", "execution_count": 28, "metadata": { "id": "jg5O0mHYqj3F", "outputId": "82781410-57db-461b-9d69-2c0815b32f53" }, "outputs": [ { "data": { "text/plain": [ "'안녕'" ] }, "execution_count": 28, "metadata": {}, "output_type": "execute_result" } ], "source": [ "# b'\\xec\\x95\\x88\\xeb\\x85\\x95'.decode('euc-kr') <- what happen if you do this?\n", "b'\\xec\\x95\\x88\\xeb\\x85\\x95'.decode('utf8')" ] }, { "cell_type": "code", "execution_count": 29, "metadata": { "id": "WRnPXSr3qj3F", "outputId": "7c599349-0611-4946-c18c-dc67e64f734d" }, "outputs": [ { "data": { "text/plain": [ "b'\\xbe\\xc8\\xb3\\xe7'" ] }, "execution_count": 29, "metadata": {}, "output_type": "execute_result" } ], "source": [ "\"안녕\".encode('euc-kr')" ] }, { "cell_type": "code", "execution_count": 30, "metadata": { "id": "-N137xJ8qj3G", "outputId": "d3f7ab73-9e73-4f8c-f701-da41164390d7" }, "outputs": [ { "data": { "text/plain": [ "'안녕'" ] }, "execution_count": 30, "metadata": {}, "output_type": "execute_result" } ], "source": [ "b'\\xbe\\xc8\\xb3\\xe7'.decode('euc-kr')" ] }, { "cell_type": "markdown", "metadata": { "id": "It6GvDx4qj3G" }, "source": [ "You can decode with \"wrong\" encoding too." ] }, { "cell_type": "code", "execution_count": 31, "metadata": { "id": "sDXE2va7qj3G", "outputId": "c1e1f5b6-d2a4-4c97-9e00-98dafa2c3ef2" }, "outputs": [ { "data": { "text/plain": [ "'¾È³ç'" ] }, "execution_count": 31, "metadata": {}, "output_type": "execute_result" } ], "source": [ "b'\\xbe\\xc8\\xb3\\xe7'.decode('latin-1')" ] }, { "cell_type": "markdown", "metadata": { "id": "9p5dzjVrqj3G" }, "source": [ "As you can see the same string can be encoded into different byte sequences depending on the encoding. It's a really ~~annoying~~ fun topic and if you need to deal with text data, you must have a good understanding of it.\n", "\n", "There is a lot of complexity in encoding. But for now, just remember that `utf-8` encoding is the most common encoding. It is also compatible with ASCII encoding as well. That means you can _decode_ both ASCII and utf-8 documents with utf-8 encoding. So let's decode the byte sequence into a string." ] }, { "cell_type": "code", "execution_count": 32, "metadata": { "id": "FW3pHakAqj3H" }, "outputs": [], "source": [ "# YOUR SOLUTION HERE" ] }, { "cell_type": "code", "execution_count": 33, "metadata": { "id": "A9hBV_wKqj3H", "outputId": "f5ef5af1-98b7-4961-c82d-879c145ded6f" }, "outputs": [ { "data": { "text/plain": [ "str" ] }, "execution_count": 33, "metadata": {}, "output_type": "execute_result" } ], "source": [ "type(book_str)" ] }, { "cell_type": "markdown", "metadata": { "id": "0u5Kfi89qj3H" }, "source": [ "Shall we try again?" ] }, { "cell_type": "code", "execution_count": 34, "metadata": { "id": "H90LdgXPqj3H" }, "outputs": [], "source": [ "doc = nlp(book_str)" ] }, { "cell_type": "code", "execution_count": 35, "metadata": { "id": "8SPxEbpsqj3I" }, "outputs": [], "source": [ "words = [token.text for token in doc\n", " if token.is_stop != True and token.is_punct != True]" ] }, { "cell_type": "markdown", "metadata": { "id": "-NOoIKyCqj3I" }, "source": [ "## Let's count!" ] }, { "cell_type": "code", "execution_count": 36, "metadata": { "id": "uOMEmqEPqj3I", "outputId": "e8734fc5-1f55-4b74-ad2c-fbd58d7c49ae" }, "outputs": [ { "data": { "text/plain": [ "[('\\n ', 3107),\n", " ('\\n\\n ', 772),\n", " ('said', 207),\n", " ('man', 155),\n", " ('Holmes', 98)]" ] }, "execution_count": 36, "metadata": {}, "output_type": "execute_result" } ], "source": [ "from collections import Counter\n", "\n", "Counter(words).most_common(5)" ] }, { "cell_type": "markdown", "metadata": { "id": "RcJXBNvQqj3I" }, "source": [ "a lot of newline characters and multiple spaces. A quick and dirty way to remove them is split & join. The idea is that you split the document using `split()` and then join with a single space ` `. Can you implement it and print the 10 most common words?" ] }, { "cell_type": "code", "execution_count": 37, "metadata": { "id": "yKaAGBOUqj3J", "outputId": "48b87b7a-745c-487a-9049-929358d2d6a2" }, "outputs": [ { "data": { "text/plain": [ "[('said', 207),\n", " ('man', 155),\n", " ('Holmes', 98),\n", " ('little', 80),\n", " ('time', 77),\n", " ('way', 69),\n", " ('came', 67),\n", " ('face', 67),\n", " ('asked', 65),\n", " ('come', 64)]" ] }, "execution_count": 37, "metadata": {}, "output_type": "execute_result" } ], "source": [ "# YOUR SOLUTION HERE" ] }, { "cell_type": "markdown", "metadata": { "id": "ne85AtHJqj3J" }, "source": [ "Let's keep the object with word count." ] }, { "cell_type": "code", "execution_count": 38, "metadata": { "id": "nvoURFFCqj3J" }, "outputs": [], "source": [ "word_cnt = Counter(words)" ] }, { "cell_type": "markdown", "metadata": { "id": "OT6gooK-qj3J" }, "source": [ "## Some wordclouds?" ] }, { "cell_type": "code", "execution_count": 39, "metadata": { "id": "PhGTpUNHqj3J" }, "outputs": [], "source": [ "import matplotlib.pyplot as plt" ] }, { "cell_type": "markdown", "metadata": { "id": "MlmD65_6qj3U" }, "source": [ "Can you check out the `wordcloud` package documentation and create a word cloud from the word count object that we created from the book above and plot it?" ] }, { "cell_type": "code", "execution_count": 40, "metadata": { "id": "W5DuC9c2qj3U", "outputId": "7dee0c63-e18c-4204-df1d-538cfcd65142" }, "outputs": [ { "data": { "text/plain": [ "" ] }, "execution_count": 40, "metadata": {}, "output_type": "execute_result" } ], "source": [ "# Implement: create a word cloud object\n", "\n", "# YOUR SOLUTION HERE" ] }, { "cell_type": "code", "execution_count": 41, "metadata": { "id": "YOOR8bm8qj3U", "outputId": "b0ca7746-eb55-454f-af96-ca06b11b45bb" }, "outputs": [ { "data": { "image/png": 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", "text/plain": [ "
" ] }, "metadata": {}, "output_type": "display_data" } ], "source": [ "# Implement: plot the word cloud object\n", "\n", "# YOUR SOLUTION HERE" ] }, { "cell_type": "markdown", "metadata": { "id": "bQlmibbbqj3V" }, "source": [ "**Q: Can you create a word cloud for a certain part of speech, such as nouns, verbs, proper nouns, etc. (pick one)?**" ] }, { "cell_type": "code", "execution_count": 42, "metadata": { "id": "Y2rCCXngqj3V", "outputId": "cf13ac5b-a9b0-4e77-dddc-de082df1c017" }, "outputs": [ { "data": { "image/png": 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Having completed my studies there, I was duly attached to the Fifth Northumberland Fusiliers as Assistant Surgeon. The regiment was stationed in India at the time, and before I could join it, the second Afghan war had broken out. On landing at Bombay, I learned that my corps had advanced through the passes, and was already deep in the enemy's country. I followed, however, with many other officers who were in the same situation as myself, and succeeded in reaching Candahar in safety, where I found my regiment, and at once entered upon my new duties. The campaign brought honours and promotion to many, but for me it had nothing but misfortune and disaster. I was removed from my brigade and attached to the Berkshires, with whom I served at the fatal battle of Maiwand. There I was struck on the shoulder by a Jezail bullet, which shattered the bone and grazed the subclavian artery. I should have fallen into the hands of the murderous Ghazis had it not been for the devotion and courage shown by Murray, my orderly, who threw me across a pack-horse, and succeeded in bringing me safely to the British lines. Worn with pain, and weak from the prolonged hardships which I had undergone, I was removed, with a great train of wounded sufferers, to the base hospital at Peshawar. Here I rallied, and had already improved so far as to be able to walk about the wards, and even to bask a little upon the verandah, when I was struck down by enteric fever, that curse of our Indian possessions. For months my life was despaired of, and when at last I came to myself and became convalescent, I was so weak and emaciated that a medical board determined that not a day should be lost in sending me back to England. I was dispatched, accordingly, in the troopship Orontes, and landed a month later on Portsmouth jetty, with my health irretrievably ruined, but with permission from a paternal government to spend the next nine months in attempting to improve it. I had neither kith nor kin in England, and was therefore as free as air--or as free as an income of eleven shillings and sixpence a day will permit a man to be. Under such circumstances, I naturally gravitated to London, that great cesspool into which all the loungers and idlers of the Empire are irresistibly drained. There I stayed for some time at a private hotel in the Strand, leading a comfortless, meaningless existence, and spending such money as I had, considerably more freely than I ought. So alarming did the state of my finances become, that I soon realized that I must either leave the metropolis and rusticate somewhere in the country, or that I must make a complete alteration in my style of living. Choosing the latter alternative, I began by making up my mind to leave the hotel, and to take up my quarters in some less pretentious and less expensive domicile. On the very day that I had come to this conclusion, I was standing at the Criterion Bar, when some one tapped me on the shoulder, and turning round I recognized young Stamford, who had been a dresser under me at Bart's. The sight of a friendly face in the great wilderness of London is a pleasant thing indeed to a lonely man. In old days Stamford had never been a particular crony of mine, but now I hailed him with enthusiasm, and he, in his turn, appeared to be delighted to see me. In the exuberance of my joy, I asked him to lunch with me at the Holborn, and we started off together in a hansom. \"Whatever have you been doing with yourself, Watson?\" he asked in undisguised wonder, as we rattled through the crowded London streets. \"You are as thin as a lath and as brown as a nut.\" I gave him a short sketch of my adventures, and had hardly concluded it by the time that we reached our destination. \"Poor devil!\" he said, commiseratingly, after he had listened to my misfortunes. \"What are you up to now?\" \"Looking for lodgings,\" I answered. \"Trying to solve the problem as to whether it is possible to get comfortable rooms at a reasonable price.\" \"That's a strange thing,\" remarked my companion; \"you are the second man to-day that has used that expression to me.\" \"And who was the first?\" I asked. \"A fellow who is working at the chemical laboratory up at the hospital. He was bemoaning himself this morning because he could not get someone to go halves with him in some nice rooms which he had found, and which were too much for his purse.\" \"By Jove!\" I cried, \"if he really wants someone to share the rooms and the expense, I am the very man for him. I should prefer having a partner to being alone.\" Young Stamford looked rather strangely at me over his wine-glass. \"You don't know Sherlock Holmes yet,\" he said; \"perhaps you would not care for him as a constant companion.\" \"Why, what is there against him?\" \"Oh, I didn't say there was anything against him. He is a little queer in his ideas--an enthusiast in some branches of science. As far as I know he is a decent fellow enough.\" \"A medical student, I suppose?\" said I. \"No--I have no idea what he intends to go in for. I believe he is well up in anatomy, and he is a first-class chemist; but, as far as I know, he has never taken out any systematic medical classes. His studies are very desultory and eccentric, but he has amassed a lot of out-of-the way knowledge which would astonish his professors.\" \"Did you never ask him what he was going in for?\" I asked. \"No; he is not a man that it is easy to draw out, though he can be communicative enough when the fancy seizes him.\" \"I should like to meet him,\" I said. \"If I am to lodge with anyone, I should prefer a man of studious and quiet habits. I am not strong enough yet to stand much noise or excitement. I had enough of both in Afghanistan to last me for the remainder of my natural existence. How could I meet this friend of yours?\" \"He is sure to be at the laboratory,\" returned my companion. \"He either avoids the place for weeks, or else he works there from morning to night. If you like, we shall drive round together after luncheon.\" \"Certainly,\" I answered, and the conversation drifted away into other channels. As we made our way to the hospital after leaving the Holborn, Stamford gave me a few more particulars about the gentleman whom I proposed to take as a fellow-lodger. \"You mustn't blame me if you don't get on with him,\" he said; \"I know nothing more of him than I have learned from meeting him occasionally in the laboratory. You proposed this arrangement, so you must not hold me responsible.\" \"If we don't get on it will be easy to part company,\" I answered. \"It seems to me, Stamford,\" I added, looking hard at my companion, \"that you have some reason for washing your hands of the matter. Is this fellow's temper so formidable, or what is it? Don't be mealy-mouthed about it.\" \"It is not easy to express the inexpressible,\" he answered with a laugh. \"Holmes is a little too scientific for my tastes--it approaches to cold-bloodedness. I could imagine his giving a friend a little pinch of the latest vegetable alkaloid, not out of malevolence, you understand, but simply out of a spirit of inquiry in order to have an accurate idea of the effects. To do him justice, I think that he would take it himself with the same readiness. He appears to have a passion for definite and exact knowledge.\" \"Very right too.\" \"Yes, but it may be pushed to excess. When it comes to beating the subjects in the dissecting-rooms with a stick, it is certainly taking rather a bizarre shape.\" \"Beating the subjects!\" \"Yes, to verify how far bruises may be produced after death. I saw him at it with my own eyes.\" \"And yet you say he is not a medical student?\" \"No. Heaven knows what the objects of his studies are. But here we are, and you must form your own impressions about him.\" As he spoke, we turned down a narrow lane and passed through a small side-door, which opened into a wing of the great hospital. It was familiar ground to me, and I needed no guiding as we ascended the bleak stone staircase and made our way down the long corridor with its vista of whitewashed wall and dun-coloured doors. Near the further end a low arched passage branched away from it and led to the chemical laboratory. This was a lofty chamber, lined and littered with countless bottles. Broad, low tables were scattered about, which bristled with retorts, test-tubes, and little Bunsen lamps, with their blue flickering flames. There was only one student in the room, who was bending over a distant table absorbed in his work. At the sound of our steps he glanced round and sprang to his feet with a cry of pleasure. \"I've found it! I've found it,\" he shouted to my companion, running towards us with a test-tube in his hand. \"I have found a re-agent which is precipitated by hoemoglobin, and by nothing else.\" Had he discovered a gold mine, greater delight could not have shone upon his features. \"Dr. Watson, Mr. Sherlock Holmes,\" said Stamford, introducing us. \"How are you?\" he said cordially, gripping my hand with a strength for which I should hardly have given him credit. \"You have been in Afghanistan, I perceive.\" \"How on earth did you know that?\" I asked in astonishment. \"Never mind,\" said he, chuckling to himself. \"The question now is about hoemoglobin. No doubt you see the significance of this discovery of mine?\" \"It is interesting, chemically, no doubt,\" I answered, \"but practically--\" \"Why, man, it is the most practical medico-legal discovery for years. Don't you see that it gives us an infallible test for blood stains. Come over here now!\" He seized me by the coat-sleeve in his eagerness, and drew me over to the table at which he had been working. \"Let us have some fresh blood,\" he said, digging a long bodkin into his finger, and drawing off the resulting drop of blood in a chemical pipette. \"Now, I add this small quantity of blood to a litre of water. You perceive that the resulting mixture has the appearance of pure water. The proportion of blood cannot be more than one in a million. I have no doubt, however, that we shall be able to obtain the characteristic reaction.\" As he spoke, he threw into the vessel a few white crystals, and then added some drops of a transparent fluid. In an instant the contents assumed a dull mahogany colour, and a brownish dust was precipitated to the bottom of the glass jar. \"Ha! ha!\" he cried, clapping his hands, and looking as delighted as a child with a new toy. \"What do you think of that?\" \"It seems to be a very delicate test,\" I remarked. \"Beautiful! beautiful! The old Guiacum test was very clumsy and uncertain. So is the microscopic examination for blood corpuscles. The latter is valueless if the stains are a few hours old. Now, this appears to act as well whether the blood is old or new. Had this test been invented, there are hundreds of men now walking the earth who would long ago have paid the penalty of their crimes.\" \"Indeed!\" I murmured. \"Criminal cases are continually hinging upon that one point. A man is suspected of a crime months perhaps after it has been committed. His linen or clothes are examined, and brownish stains discovered upon them. Are they blood stains, or mud stains, or rust stains, or fruit stains, or what are they? That is a question which has puzzled many an expert, and why? Because there was no reliable test. Now we have the Sherlock Holmes' test, and there will no longer be any difficulty.\" His eyes fairly glittered as he spoke, and he put his hand over his heart and bowed as if to some applauding crowd conjured up by his imagination. \"You are to be congratulated,\" I remarked, considerably surprised at his enthusiasm. \"There was the case of Von Bischoff at Frankfort last year. He would certainly have been hung had this test been in existence. Then there was Mason of Bradford, and the notorious Muller, and Lefevre of Montpellier, and Samson of new Orleans. I could name a score of cases in which it would have been decisive.\" \"You seem to be a walking calendar of crime,\" said Stamford with a laugh. \"You might start a paper on those lines. Call it the 'Police News of the Past.'\" \"Very interesting reading it might be made, too,\" remarked Sherlock Holmes, sticking a small piece of plaster over the prick on his finger. \"I have to be careful,\" he continued, turning to me with a smile, \"for I dabble with poisons a good deal.\" He held out his hand as he spoke, and I noticed that it was all mottled over with similar pieces of plaster, and discoloured with strong acids. \"We came here on business,\" said Stamford, sitting down on a high three-legged stool, and pushing another one in my direction with his foot. \"My friend here wants to take diggings, and as you were complaining that you could get no one to go halves with you, I thought that I had better bring you together.\" Sherlock Holmes seemed delighted at the idea of sharing his rooms with me. \"I have my eye on a suite in Baker Street,\" he said, \"which would suit us down to the ground. You don't mind the smell of strong tobacco, I hope?\" \"I always smoke 'ship's' myself,\" I answered. \"That's good enough. I generally have chemicals about, and occasionally do experiments. Would that annoy you?\" \"By no means.\" \"Let me see--what are my other shortcomings. I get in the dumps at times, and don't open my mouth for days on end. You must not think I am sulky when I do that. Just let me alone, and I'll soon be right. What have you to confess now? It's just as well for two fellows to know the worst of one another before they begin to live together.\" I laughed at this cross-examination. \"I keep a bull pup,\" I said, \"and I object to rows because my nerves are shaken, and I get up at all sorts of ungodly hours, and I am extremely lazy. I have another set of vices when I'm well, but those are the principal ones at present.\" \"Do you include violin-playing in your category of rows?\" he asked, anxiously. \"It depends on the player,\" I answered. \"A well-played violin is a treat for the gods--a badly-played one--\" \"Oh, that's all right,\" he cried, with a merry laugh. \"I think we may consider the thing as settled--that is, if the rooms are agreeable to you.\" \"When shall we see them?\" \"Call for me here at noon to-morrow, and we'll go together and settle everything,\" he answered. \"All right--noon exactly,\" said I, shaking his hand. We left him working among his chemicals, and we walked together towards my hotel. \"By the way,\" I asked suddenly, stopping and turning upon Stamford, \"how the deuce did he know that I had come from Afghanistan?\" My companion smiled an enigmatical smile. \"That's just his little peculiarity,\" he said. \"A good many people have wanted to know how he finds things out.\" \"Oh! a mystery is it?\" I cried, rubbing my hands. \"This is very piquant. I am much obliged to you for bringing us together. 'The proper study of mankind is man,' you know.\" \"You must study him, then,\" Stamford said, as he bade me good-bye. \"You'll find him a knotty problem, though. I'll wager he learns more about you than you about him. Good-bye.\" \"Good-bye,\" I answered, and strolled on to my hotel, considerably interested in my new acquaintance. CHAPTER II The Science Of Deduction We met next day as he had arranged, and inspected the rooms at No. 221b, Baker Street, of which he had spoken at our meeting. They consisted of a couple of comfortable bed-rooms and a single large airy sitting-room, cheerfully furnished, and illuminated by two broad windows. So desirable in every way were the apartments, and so moderate did the terms seem when divided between us, that the bargain was concluded upon the spot, and we at once entered into possession. That very evening I moved my things round from the hotel, and on the following morning Sherlock Holmes followed me with several boxes and portmanteaus. For a day or two we were busily employed in unpacking and laying out our property to the best advantage. That done, we gradually began to settle down and to accommodate ourselves to our new surroundings. Holmes was certainly not a difficult man to live with. He was quiet in his ways, and his habits were regular. It was rare for him to be up after ten at night, and he had invariably breakfasted and gone out before I rose in the morning. Sometimes he spent his day at the chemical laboratory, sometimes in the dissecting-rooms, and occasionally in long walks, which appeared to take him into the lowest portions of the City. Nothing could exceed his energy when the working fit was upon him; but now and again a reaction would seize him, and for days on end he would lie upon the sofa in the sitting-room, hardly uttering a word or moving a muscle from morning to night. On these occasions I have noticed such a dreamy, vacant expression in his eyes, that I might have suspected him of being addicted to the use of some narcotic, had not the temperance and cleanliness of his whole life forbidden such a notion. As the weeks went by, my interest in him and my curiosity as to his aims in life, gradually deepened and increased. His very person and appearance were such as to strike the attention of the most casual observer. In height he was rather over six feet, and so excessively lean that he seemed to be considerably taller. His eyes were sharp and piercing, save during those intervals of torpor to which I have alluded; and his thin, hawk-like nose gave his whole expression an air of alertness and decision. His chin, too, had the prominence and squareness which mark the man of determination. His hands were invariably blotted with ink and stained with chemicals, yet he was possessed of extraordinary delicacy of touch, as I frequently had occasion to observe when I watched him manipulating his fragile philosophical instruments. The reader may set me down as a hopeless busybody, when I confess how much this man stimulated my curiosity, and how often I endeavoured to break through the reticence which he showed on all that concerned himself. Before pronouncing judgment, however, be it remembered, how objectless was my life, and how little there was to engage my attention. My health forbade me from venturing out unless the weather was exceptionally genial, and I had no friends who would call upon me and break the monotony of my daily existence. Under these circumstances, I eagerly hailed the little mystery which hung around my companion, and spent much of my time in endeavouring to unravel it. He was not studying medicine. He had himself, in reply to a question, confirmed Stamford's opinion upon that point. Neither did he appear to have pursued any course of reading which might fit him for a degree in science or any other recognized portal which would give him an entrance into the learned world. Yet his zeal for certain studies was remarkable, and within eccentric limits his knowledge was so extraordinarily ample and minute that his observations have fairly astounded me. Surely no man would work so hard or attain such precise information unless he had some definite end in view. Desultory readers are seldom remarkable for the exactness of their learning. No man burdens his mind with small matters unless he has some very good reason for doing so. His ignorance was as remarkable as his knowledge. Of contemporary literature, philosophy and politics he appeared to know next to nothing. Upon my quoting Thomas Carlyle, he inquired in the naivest way who he might be and what he had done. My surprise reached a climax, however, when I found incidentally that he was ignorant of the Copernican Theory and of the composition of the Solar System. That any civilized human being in this nineteenth century should not be aware that the earth travelled round the sun appeared to be to me such an extraordinary fact that I could hardly realize it. \"You appear to be astonished,\" he said, smiling at my expression of surprise. \"Now that I do know it I shall do my best to forget it.\" \"To forget it!\" \"You see,\" he explained, \"I consider that a man's brain originally is like a little empty attic, and you have to stock it with such furniture as you choose. A fool takes in all the lumber of every sort that he comes across, so that the knowledge which might be useful to him gets crowded out, or at best is jumbled up with a lot of other things so that he has a difficulty in laying his hands upon it. Now the skilful workman is very careful indeed as to what he takes into his brain-attic. He will have nothing but the tools which may help him in doing his work, but of these he has a large assortment, and all in the most perfect order. It is a mistake to think that that little room has elastic walls and can distend to any extent. Depend upon it there comes a time when for every addition of knowledge you forget something that you knew before. It is of the highest importance, therefore, not to have useless facts elbowing out the useful ones.\" \"But the Solar System!\" I protested. \"What the deuce is it to me?\" he interrupted impatiently; \"you say that we go round the sun. If we went round the moon it would not make a pennyworth of difference to me or to my work.\" I was on the point of asking him what that work might be, but something in his manner showed me that the question would be an unwelcome one. I pondered over our short conversation, however, and endeavoured to draw my deductions from it. He said that he would acquire no knowledge which did not bear upon his object. Therefore all the knowledge which he possessed was such as would be useful to him. I enumerated in my own mind all the various points upon which he had shown me that he was exceptionally well-informed. I even took a pencil and jotted them down. I could not help smiling at the document when I had completed it. It ran in this way-- Sherlock Holmes--his limits. 1. Knowledge of Literature.--Nil. 2. Philosophy.--Nil. 3. Astronomy.--Nil. 4. Politics.--Feeble. 5. Botany.--Variable. Well up in belladonna, opium, and poisons generally. Knows nothing of practical gardening. 6. Geology.--Practical, but limited. Tells at a glance different soils from each other. After walks has shown me splashes upon his trousers, and told me by their colour and consistence in what part of London he had received them. 7. Chemistry.--Profound. 8. Anatomy.--Accurate, but unsystematic. 9. Sensational Literature.--Immense. He appears to know every detail of every horror perpetrated in the century. 10. Plays the violin well. 11. Is an expert singlestick player, boxer, and swordsman. 12. Has a good practical knowledge of British law. When I had got so far in my list I threw it into the fire in despair. \"If I can only find what the fellow is driving at by reconciling all these accomplishments, and discovering a calling which needs them all,\" I said to myself, \"I may as well give up the attempt at once.\" I see that I have alluded above to his powers upon the violin. These were very remarkable, but as eccentric as all his other accomplishments. That he could play pieces, and difficult pieces, I knew well, because at my request he has played me some of Mendelssohn's Lieder, and other favourites. When left to himself, however, he would seldom produce any music or attempt any recognized air. Leaning back in his arm-chair of an evening, he would close his eyes and scrape carelessly at the fiddle which was thrown across his knee. Sometimes the chords were sonorous and melancholy. Occasionally they were fantastic and cheerful. Clearly they reflected the thoughts which possessed him, but whether the music aided those thoughts, or whether the playing was simply the result of a whim or fancy was more than I could determine. I might have rebelled against these exasperating solos had it not been that he usually terminated them by playing in quick succession a whole series of my favourite airs as a slight compensation for the trial upon my patience. During the first week or so we had no callers, and I had begun to think that my companion was as friendless a man as I was myself. Presently, however, I found that he had many acquaintances, and those in the most different classes of society. There was one little sallow rat-faced, dark-eyed fellow who was introduced to me as Mr. Lestrade, and who came three or four times in a single week. One morning a young girl called, fashionably dressed, and stayed for half an hour or more. The same afternoon brought a grey-headed, seedy visitor, looking like a Jew pedlar, who appeared to me to be much excited, and who was closely followed by a slipshod elderly woman. On another occasion an old white-haired gentleman had an interview with my companion; and on another a railway porter in his velveteen uniform. When any of these nondescript individuals put in an appearance, Sherlock Holmes used to beg for the use of the sitting-room, and I would retire to my bed-room. He always apologized to me for putting me to this inconvenience. \"I have to use this room as a place of business,\" he said, \"and these people are my clients.\" Again I had an opportunity of asking him a point blank question, and again my delicacy prevented me from forcing another man to confide in me. I imagined at the time that he had some strong reason for not alluding to it, but he soon dispelled the idea by coming round to the subject of his own accord. It was upon the 4th of March, as I have good reason to remember, that I rose somewhat earlier than usual, and found that Sherlock Holmes had not yet finished his breakfast. The landlady had become so accustomed to my late habits that my place had not been laid nor my coffee prepared. With the unreasonable petulance of mankind I rang the bell and gave a curt intimation that I was ready. Then I picked up a magazine from the table and attempted to while away the time with it, while my companion munched silently at his toast. One of the articles had a pencil mark at the heading, and I naturally began to run my eye through it. Its somewhat ambitious title was \"The Book of Life,\" and it attempted to show how much an observant man might learn by an accurate and systematic examination of all that came in his way. It struck me as being a remarkable mixture of shrewdness and of absurdity. The reasoning was close and intense, but the deductions appeared to me to be far-fetched and exaggerated. The writer claimed by a momentary expression, a twitch of a muscle or a glance of an eye, to fathom a man's inmost thoughts. Deceit, according to him, was an impossibility in the case of one trained to observation and analysis. His conclusions were as infallible as so many propositions of Euclid. So startling would his results appear to the uninitiated that until they learned the processes by which he had arrived at them they might well consider him as a necromancer. \"From a drop of water,\" said the writer, \"a logician could infer the possibility of an Atlantic or a Niagara without having seen or heard of one or the other. So all life is a great chain, the nature of which is known whenever we are shown a single link of it. Like all other arts, the Science of Deduction and Analysis is one which can only be acquired by long and patient study nor is life long enough to allow any mortal to attain the highest possible perfection in it. Before turning to those moral and mental aspects of the matter which present the greatest difficulties, let the enquirer begin by mastering more elementary problems. Let him, on meeting a fellow-mortal, learn at a glance to distinguish the history of the man, and the trade or profession to which he belongs. Puerile as such an exercise may seem, it sharpens the faculties of observation, and teaches one where to look and what to look for. By a man's finger nails, by his coat-sleeve, by his boot, by his trouser knees, by the callosities of his forefinger and thumb, by his expression, by his shirt cuffs--by each of these things a man's calling is plainly revealed. That all united should fail to enlighten the competent enquirer in any case is almost inconceivable.\" \"What ineffable twaddle!\" I cried, slapping the magazine down on the table, \"I never read such rubbish in my life.\" \"What is it?\" asked Sherlock Holmes. \"Why, this article,\" I said, pointing at it with my egg spoon as I sat down to my breakfast. \"I see that you have read it since you have marked it. I don't deny that it is smartly written. It irritates me though. It is evidently the theory of some arm-chair lounger who evolves all these neat little paradoxes in the seclusion of his own study. It is not practical. I should like to see him clapped down in a third class carriage on the Underground, and asked to give the trades of all his fellow-travellers. I would lay a thousand to one against him.\" \"You would lose your money,\" Sherlock Holmes remarked calmly. \"As for the article I wrote it myself.\" \"You!\" \"Yes, I have a turn both for observation and for deduction. The theories which I have expressed there, and which appear to you to be so chimerical are really extremely practical--so practical that I depend upon them for my bread and cheese.\" \"And how?\" I asked involuntarily. \"Well, I have a trade of my own. I suppose I am the only one in the world. I'm a consulting detective, if you can understand what that is. Here in London we have lots of Government detectives and lots of private ones. When these fellows are at fault they come to me, and I manage to put them on the right scent. They lay all the evidence before me, and I am generally able, by the help of my knowledge of the history of crime, to set them straight. There is a strong family resemblance about misdeeds, and if you have all the details of a thousand at your finger ends, it is odd if you can't unravel the thousand and first. Lestrade is a well-known detective. He got himself into a fog recently over a forgery case, and that was what brought him here.\" \"And these other people?\" \"They are mostly sent on by private inquiry agencies. They are all people who are in trouble about something, and want a little enlightening. I listen to their story, they listen to my comments, and then I pocket my fee.\" \"But do you mean to say,\" I said, \"that without leaving your room you can unravel some knot which other men can make nothing of, although they have seen every detail for themselves?\" \"Quite so. I have a kind of intuition that way. Now and again a case turns up which is a little more complex. Then I have to bustle about and see things with my own eyes. You see I have a lot of special knowledge which I apply to the problem, and which facilitates matters wonderfully. Those rules of deduction laid down in that article which aroused your scorn, are invaluable to me in practical work. Observation with me is second nature. You appeared to be surprised when I told you, on our first meeting, that you had come from Afghanistan.\" \"You were told, no doubt.\" \"Nothing of the sort. I knew you came from Afghanistan. From long habit the train of thoughts ran so swiftly through my mind, that I arrived at the conclusion without being conscious of intermediate steps. There were such steps, however. The train of reasoning ran, 'Here is a gentleman of a medical type, but with the air of a military man. Clearly an army doctor, then. He has just come from the tropics, for his face is dark, and that is not the natural tint of his skin, for his wrists are fair. He has undergone hardship and sickness, as his haggard face says clearly. His left arm has been injured. He holds it in a stiff and unnatural manner. Where in the tropics could an English army doctor have seen much hardship and got his arm wounded? Clearly in Afghanistan.' The whole train of thought did not occupy a second. I then remarked that you came from Afghanistan, and you were astonished.\" \"It is simple enough as you explain it,\" I said, smiling. \"You remind me of Edgar Allen Poe's Dupin. I had no idea that such individuals did exist outside of stories.\" Sherlock Holmes rose and lit his pipe. \"No doubt you think that you are complimenting me in comparing me to Dupin,\" he observed. \"Now, in my opinion, Dupin was a very inferior fellow. That trick of his of breaking in on his friends' thoughts with an apropos remark after a quarter of an hour's silence is really very showy and superficial. He had some analytical genius, no doubt; but he was by no means such a phenomenon as Poe appeared to imagine.\" \"Have you read Gaboriau's works?\" I asked. \"Does Lecoq come up to your idea of a detective?\" Sherlock Holmes sniffed sardonically. \"Lecoq was a miserable bungler,\" he said, in an angry voice; \"he had only one thing to recommend him, and that was his energy. That book made me positively ill. The question was how to identify an unknown prisoner. I could have done it in twenty-four hours. Lecoq took six months or so. It might be made a text-book for detectives to teach them what to avoid.\" I felt rather indignant at having two characters whom I had admired treated in this cavalier style. I walked over to the window, and stood looking out into the busy street. \"This fellow may be very clever,\" I said to myself, \"but he is certainly very conceited.\" \"There are no crimes and no criminals in these days,\" he said, querulously. \"What is the use of having brains in our profession? I know well that I have it in me to make my name famous. No man lives or has ever lived who has brought the same amount of study and of natural talent to the detection of crime which I have done. And what is the result? There is no crime to detect, or, at most, some bungling villany with a motive so transparent that even a Scotland Yard official can see through it.\" I was still annoyed at his bumptious style of conversation. I thought it best to change the topic. \"I wonder what that fellow is looking for?\" I asked, pointing to a stalwart, plainly-dressed individual who was walking slowly down the other side of the street, looking anxiously at the numbers. He had a large blue envelope in his hand, and was evidently the bearer of a message. \"You mean the retired sergeant of Marines,\" said Sherlock Holmes. \"Brag and bounce!\" thought I to myself. \"He knows that I cannot verify his guess.\" The thought had hardly passed through my mind when the man whom we were watching caught sight of the number on our door, and ran rapidly across the roadway. We heard a loud knock, a deep voice below, and heavy steps ascending the stair. \"For Mr. Sherlock Holmes,\" he said, stepping into the room and handing my friend the letter. Here was an opportunity of taking the conceit out of him. He little thought of this when he made that random shot. \"May I ask, my lad,\" I said, in the blandest voice, \"what your trade may be?\" \"Commissionaire, sir,\" he said, gruffly. \"Uniform away for repairs.\" \"And you were?\" I asked, with a slightly malicious glance at my companion. \"A sergeant, sir, Royal Marine Light Infantry, sir. No answer? Right, sir.\" He clicked his heels together, raised his hand in a salute, and was gone. CHAPTER III The Lauriston Garden Mystery I confess that I was considerably startled by this fresh proof of the practical nature of my companion's theories. My respect for his powers of analysis increased wondrously. There still remained some lurking suspicion in my mind, however, that the whole thing was a pre-arranged episode, intended to dazzle me, though what earthly object he could have in taking me in was past my comprehension. When I looked at him he had finished reading the note, and his eyes had assumed the vacant, lack-lustre expression which showed mental abstraction. \"How in the world did you deduce that?\" I asked. \"Deduce what?\" said he, petulantly. \"Why, that he was a retired sergeant of Marines.\" \"I have no time for trifles,\" he answered, brusquely; then with a smile, \"Excuse my rudeness. You broke the thread of my thoughts; but perhaps it is as well. So you actually were not able to see that that man was a sergeant of Marines?\" \"No, indeed.\" \"It was easier to know it than to explain why I knew it. If you were asked to prove that two and two made four, you might find some difficulty, and yet you are quite sure of the fact. Even across the street I could see a great blue anchor tattooed on the back of the fellow's hand. That smacked of the sea. He had a military carriage, however, and regulation side whiskers. There we have the marine. He was a man with some amount of self-importance and a certain air of command. You must have observed the way in which he held his head and swung his cane. A steady, respectable, middle-aged man, too, on the face of him--all facts which led me to believe that he had been a sergeant.\" \"Wonderful!\" I ejaculated. \"Commonplace,\" said Holmes, though I thought from his expression that he was pleased at my evident surprise and admiration. \"I said just now that there were no criminals. It appears that I am wrong--look at this!\" He threw me over the note which the commissionaire had brought. \"Why,\" I cried, as I cast my eye over it, \"this is terrible!\" \"It does seem to be a little out of the common,\" he remarked, calmly. \"Would you mind reading it to me aloud?\" This is the letter which I read to him-- \"My dear Mr. Sherlock Holmes: \"There has been a bad business during the night at 3, Lauriston Gardens, off the Brixton Road. Our man on the beat saw a light there about two in the morning, and as the house was an empty one, suspected that something was amiss. He found the door open, and in the front room, which is bare of furniture, discovered the body of a gentleman, well dressed, and having cards in his pocket bearing the name of 'Enoch J. Drebber, Cleveland, Ohio, U.S.A.' There had been no robbery, nor is there any evidence as to how the man met his death. There are marks of blood in the room, but there is no wound upon his person. We are at a loss as to how he came into the empty house; indeed, the whole affair is a puzzler. If you can come round to the house any time before twelve, you will find me there. I have left everything in statu quo until I hear from you. If you are unable to come I shall give you fuller details, and would esteem it a great kindness if you would favour me with your opinion. \"Yours faithfully, \"Tobias Gregson.\" \"Gregson is the smartest of the Scotland Yarders,\" my friend remarked; \"he and Lestrade are the pick of a bad lot. They are both quick and energetic, but conventional--shockingly so. They have their knives into one another, too. They are as jealous as a pair of professional beauties. There will be some fun over this case if they are both put upon the scent.\" I was amazed at the calm way in which he rippled on. \"Surely there is not a moment to be lost,\" I cried, \"shall I go and order you a cab?\" \"I'm not sure about whether I shall go. I am the most incurably lazy devil that ever stood in shoe leather--that is, when the fit is on me, for I can be spry enough at times.\" \"Why, it is just such a chance as you have been longing for.\" \"My dear fellow, what does it matter to me. Supposing I unravel the whole matter, you may be sure that Gregson, Lestrade, and Co. will pocket all the credit. That comes of being an unofficial personage.\" \"But he begs you to help him.\" \"Yes. He knows that I am his superior, and acknowledges it to me; but he would cut his tongue out before he would own it to any third person. However, we may as well go and have a look. I shall work it out on my own hook. I may have a laugh at them if I have nothing else. Come on!\" He hustled on his overcoat, and bustled about in a way that showed that an energetic fit had superseded the apathetic one. \"Get your hat,\" he said. \"You wish me to come?\" \"Yes, if you have nothing better to do.\" A minute later we were both in a hansom, driving furiously for the Brixton Road. It was a foggy, cloudy morning, and a dun-coloured veil hung over the house-tops, looking like the reflection of the mud-coloured streets beneath. My companion was in the best of spirits, and prattled away about Cremona fiddles, and the difference between a Stradivarius and an Amati. As for myself, I was silent, for the dull weather and the melancholy business upon which we were engaged, depressed my spirits. \"You don't seem to give much thought to the matter in hand,\" I said at last, interrupting Holmes' musical disquisition. \"No data yet,\" he answered. \"It is a capital mistake to theorize before you have all the evidence. It biases the judgment.\" \"You will have your data soon,\" I remarked, pointing with my finger; \"this is the Brixton Road, and that is the house, if I am not very much mistaken.\" \"So it is. Stop, driver, stop!\" We were still a hundred yards or so from it, but he insisted upon our alighting, and we finished our journey upon foot. Number 3, Lauriston Gardens wore an ill-omened and minatory look. It was one of four which stood back some little way from the street, two being occupied and two empty. The latter looked out with three tiers of vacant melancholy windows, which were blank and dreary, save that here and there a \"To Let\" card had developed like a cataract upon the bleared panes. A small garden sprinkled over with a scattered eruption of sickly plants separated each of these houses from the street, and was traversed by a narrow pathway, yellowish in colour, and consisting apparently of a mixture of clay and of gravel. The whole place was very sloppy from the rain which had fallen through the night. The garden was bounded by a three-foot brick wall with a fringe of wood rails upon the top, and against this wall was leaning a stalwart police constable, surrounded by a small knot of loafers, who craned their necks and strained their eyes in the vain hope of catching some glimpse of the proceedings within. I had imagined that Sherlock Holmes would at once have hurried into the house and plunged into a study of the mystery. Nothing appeared to be further from his intention. With an air of nonchalance which, under the circumstances, seemed to me to border upon affectation, he lounged up and down the pavement, and gazed vacantly at the ground, the sky, the opposite houses and the line of railings. Having finished his scrutiny, he proceeded slowly down the path, or rather down the fringe of grass which flanked the path, keeping his eyes riveted upon the ground. Twice he stopped, and once I saw him smile, and heard him utter an exclamation of satisfaction. There were many marks of footsteps upon the wet clayey soil, but since the police had been coming and going over it, I was unable to see how my companion could hope to learn anything from it. Still I had had such extraordinary evidence of the quickness of his perceptive faculties, that I had no doubt that he could see a great deal which was hidden from me. At the door of the house we were met by a tall, white-faced, flaxen-haired man, with a notebook in his hand, who rushed forward and wrung my companion's hand with effusion. \"It is indeed kind of you to come,\" he said, \"I have had everything left untouched.\" \"Except that!\" my friend answered, pointing at the pathway. \"If a herd of buffaloes had passed along there could not be a greater mess. No doubt, however, you had drawn your own conclusions, Gregson, before you permitted this.\" \"I have had so much to do inside the house,\" the detective said evasively. \"My colleague, Mr. Lestrade, is here. I had relied upon him to look after this.\" Holmes glanced at me and raised his eyebrows sardonically. \"With two such men as yourself and Lestrade upon the ground, there will not be much for a third party to find out,\" he said. Gregson rubbed his hands in a self-satisfied way. \"I think we have done all that can be done,\" he answered; \"it's a queer case though, and I knew your taste for such things.\" \"You did not come here in a cab?\" asked Sherlock Holmes. \"No, sir.\" \"Nor Lestrade?\" \"No, sir.\" \"Then let us go and look at the room.\" With which inconsequent remark he strode on into the house, followed by Gregson, whose features expressed his astonishment. A short passage, bare planked and dusty, led to the kitchen and offices. Two doors opened out of it to the left and to the right. One of these had obviously been closed for many weeks. The other belonged to the dining-room, which was the apartment in which the mysterious affair had occurred. Holmes walked in, and I followed him with that subdued feeling at my heart which the presence of death inspires. It was a large square room, looking all the larger from the absence of all furniture. A vulgar flaring paper adorned the walls, but it was blotched in places with mildew, and here and there great strips had become detached and hung down, exposing the yellow plaster beneath. Opposite the door was a showy fireplace, surmounted by a mantelpiece of imitation white marble. On one corner of this was stuck the stump of a red wax candle. The solitary window was so dirty that the light was hazy and uncertain, giving a dull grey tinge to everything, which was intensified by the thick layer of dust which coated the whole apartment. All these details I observed afterwards. At present my attention was centred upon the single grim motionless figure which lay stretched upon the boards, with vacant sightless eyes staring up at the discoloured ceiling. It was that of a man about forty-three or forty-four years of age, middle-sized, broad shouldered, with crisp curling black hair, and a short stubbly beard. He was dressed in a heavy broadcloth frock coat and waistcoat, with light-coloured trousers, and immaculate collar and cuffs. A top hat, well brushed and trim, was placed upon the floor beside him. His hands were clenched and his arms thrown abroad, while his lower limbs were interlocked as though his death struggle had been a grievous one. On his rigid face there stood an expression of horror, and as it seemed to me, of hatred, such as I have never seen upon human features. This malignant and terrible contortion, combined with the low forehead, blunt nose, and prognathous jaw gave the dead man a singularly simious and ape-like appearance, which was increased by his writhing, unnatural posture. I have seen death in many forms, but never has it appeared to me in a more fearsome aspect than in that dark grimy apartment, which looked out upon one of the main arteries of suburban London. Lestrade, lean and ferret-like as ever, was standing by the doorway, and greeted my companion and myself. \"This case will make a stir, sir,\" he remarked. \"It beats anything I have seen, and I am no chicken.\" \"There is no clue?\" said Gregson. \"None at all,\" chimed in Lestrade. Sherlock Holmes approached the body, and, kneeling down, examined it intently. \"You are sure that there is no wound?\" he asked, pointing to numerous gouts and splashes of blood which lay all round. \"Positive!\" cried both detectives. \"Then, of course, this blood belongs to a second individual--presumably the murderer, if murder has been committed. It reminds me of the circumstances attendant on the death of Van Jansen, in Utrecht, in the year '34. Do you remember the case, Gregson?\" \"No, sir.\" \"Read it up--you really should. There is nothing new under the sun. It has all been done before.\" As he spoke, his nimble fingers were flying here, there, and everywhere, feeling, pressing, unbuttoning, examining, while his eyes wore the same far-away expression which I have already remarked upon. So swiftly was the examination made, that one would hardly have guessed the minuteness with which it was conducted. Finally, he sniffed the dead man's lips, and then glanced at the soles of his patent leather boots. \"He has not been moved at all?\" he asked. \"No more than was necessary for the purposes of our examination.\" \"You can take him to the mortuary now,\" he said. \"There is nothing more to be learned.\" Gregson had a stretcher and four men at hand. At his call they entered the room, and the stranger was lifted and carried out. As they raised him, a ring tinkled down and rolled across the floor. Lestrade grabbed it up and stared at it with mystified eyes. \"There's been a woman here,\" he cried. \"It's a woman's wedding-ring.\" He held it out, as he spoke, upon the palm of his hand. We all gathered round him and gazed at it. There could be no doubt that that circlet of plain gold had once adorned the finger of a bride. \"This complicates matters,\" said Gregson. \"Heaven knows, they were complicated enough before.\" \"You're sure it doesn't simplify them?\" observed Holmes. \"There's nothing to be learned by staring at it. What did you find in his pockets?\" \"We have it all here,\" said Gregson, pointing to a litter of objects upon one of the bottom steps of the stairs. \"A gold watch, No. 97163, by Barraud, of London. Gold Albert chain, very heavy and solid. Gold ring, with masonic device. Gold pin--bull-dog's head, with rubies as eyes. Russian leather card-case, with cards of Enoch J. Drebber of Cleveland, corresponding with the E. J. D. upon the linen. No purse, but loose money to the extent of seven pounds thirteen. Pocket edition of Boccaccio's 'Decameron,' with name of Joseph Stangerson upon the fly-leaf. Two letters--one addressed to E. J. Drebber and one to Joseph Stangerson.\" \"At what address?\" \"American Exchange, Strand--to be left till called for. They are both from the Guion Steamship Company, and refer to the sailing of their boats from Liverpool. It is clear that this unfortunate man was about to return to New York.\" \"Have you made any inquiries as to this man, Stangerson?\" \"I did it at once, sir,\" said Gregson. \"I have had advertisements sent to all the newspapers, and one of my men has gone to the American Exchange, but he has not returned yet.\" \"Have you sent to Cleveland?\" \"We telegraphed this morning.\" \"How did you word your inquiries?\" \"We simply detailed the circumstances, and said that we should be glad of any information which could help us.\" \"You did not ask for particulars on any point which appeared to you to be crucial?\" \"I asked about Stangerson.\" \"Nothing else? Is there no circumstance on which this whole case appears to hinge? Will you not telegraph again?\" \"I have said all I have to say,\" said Gregson, in an offended voice. Sherlock Holmes chuckled to himself, and appeared to be about to make some remark, when Lestrade, who had been in the front room while we were holding this conversation in the hall, reappeared upon the scene, rubbing his hands in a pompous and self-satisfied manner. \"Mr. Gregson,\" he said, \"I have just made a discovery of the highest importance, and one which would have been overlooked had I not made a careful examination of the walls.\" The little man's eyes sparkled as he spoke, and he was evidently in a state of suppressed exultation at having scored a point against his colleague. \"Come here,\" he said, bustling back into the room, the atmosphere of which felt clearer since the removal of its ghastly inmate. \"Now, stand there!\" He struck a match on his boot and held it up against the wall. \"Look at that!\" he said, triumphantly. I have remarked that the paper had fallen away in parts. In this particular corner of the room a large piece had peeled off, leaving a yellow square of coarse plastering. Across this bare space there was scrawled in blood-red letters a single word-- RACHE. \"What do you think of that?\" cried the detective, with the air of a showman exhibiting his show. \"This was overlooked because it was in the darkest corner of the room, and no one thought of looking there. The murderer has written it with his or her own blood. See this smear where it has trickled down the wall! That disposes of the idea of suicide anyhow. Why was that corner chosen to write it on? I will tell you. See that candle on the mantelpiece. It was lit at the time, and if it was lit this corner would be the brightest instead of the darkest portion of the wall.\" \"And what does it mean now that you have found it?\" asked Gregson in a depreciatory voice. \"Mean? Why, it means that the writer was going to put the female name Rachel, but was disturbed before he or she had time to finish. You mark my words, when this case comes to be cleared up you will find that a woman named Rachel has something to do with it. It's all very well for you to laugh, Mr. Sherlock Holmes. You may be very smart and clever, but the old hound is the best, when all is said and done.\" \"I really beg your pardon!\" said my companion, who had ruffled the little man's temper by bursting into an explosion of laughter. \"You certainly have the credit of being the first of us to find this out, and, as you say, it bears every mark of having been written by the other participant in last night's mystery. I have not had time to examine this room yet, but with your permission I shall do so now.\" As he spoke, he whipped a tape measure and a large round magnifying glass from his pocket. With these two implements he trotted noiselessly about the room, sometimes stopping, occasionally kneeling, and once lying flat upon his face. So engrossed was he with his occupation that he appeared to have forgotten our presence, for he chattered away to himself under his breath the whole time, keeping up a running fire of exclamations, groans, whistles, and little cries suggestive of encouragement and of hope. As I watched him I was irresistibly reminded of a pure-blooded well-trained foxhound as it dashes backwards and forwards through the covert, whining in its eagerness, until it comes across the lost scent. For twenty minutes or more he continued his researches, measuring with the most exact care the distance between marks which were entirely invisible to me, and occasionally applying his tape to the walls in an equally incomprehensible manner. In one place he gathered up very carefully a little pile of grey dust from the floor, and packed it away in an envelope. Finally, he examined with his glass the word upon the wall, going over every letter of it with the most minute exactness. This done, he appeared to be satisfied, for he replaced his tape and his glass in his pocket. \"They say that genius is an infinite capacity for taking pains,\" he remarked with a smile. \"It's a very bad definition, but it does apply to detective work.\" Gregson and Lestrade had watched the manoeuvres of their amateur companion with considerable curiosity and some contempt. They evidently failed to appreciate the fact, which I had begun to realize, that Sherlock Holmes' smallest actions were all directed towards some definite and practical end. \"What do you think of it, sir?\" they both asked. \"It would be robbing you of the credit of the case if I was to presume to help you,\" remarked my friend. \"You are doing so well now that it would be a pity for anyone to interfere.\" There was a world of sarcasm in his voice as he spoke. \"If you will let me know how your investigations go,\" he continued, \"I shall be happy to give you any help I can. In the meantime I should like to speak to the constable who found the body. Can you give me his name and address?\" Lestrade glanced at his note-book. \"John Rance,\" he said. \"He is off duty now. You will find him at 46, Audley Court, Kennington Park Gate.\" Holmes took a note of the address. \"Come along, Doctor,\" he said; \"we shall go and look him up. I'll tell you one thing which may help you in the case,\" he continued, turning to the two detectives. \"There has been murder done, and the murderer was a man. He was more than six feet high, was in the prime of life, had small feet for his height, wore coarse, square-toed boots and smoked a Trichinopoly cigar. He came here with his victim in a four-wheeled cab, which was drawn by a horse with three old shoes and one new one on his off fore leg. In all probability the murderer had a florid face, and the finger-nails of his right hand were remarkably long. These are only a few indications, but they may assist you.\" Lestrade and Gregson glanced at each other with an incredulous smile. \"If this man was murdered, how was it done?\" asked the former. \"Poison,\" said Sherlock Holmes curtly, and strode off. \"One other thing, Lestrade,\" he added, turning round at the door: \"'Rache,' is the German for 'revenge;' so don't lose your time looking for Miss Rachel.\" With which Parthian shot he walked away, leaving the two rivals open-mouthed behind him. CHAPTER IV What John Rance Had To Tell It was one o'clock when we left No. 3, Lauriston Gardens. Sherlock Holmes led me to the nearest telegraph office, whence he dispatched a long telegram. He then hailed a cab, and ordered the driver to take us to the address given us by Lestrade. \"There is nothing like first hand evidence,\" he remarked; \"as a matter of fact, my mind is entirely made up upon the case, but still we may as well learn all that is to be learned.\" \"You amaze me, Holmes,\" said I. \"Surely you are not as sure as you pretend to be of all those particulars which you gave.\" \"There's no room for a mistake,\" he answered. \"The very first thing which I observed on arriving there was that a cab had made two ruts with its wheels close to the curb. Now, up to last night, we have had no rain for a week, so that those wheels which left such a deep impression must have been there during the night. There were the marks of the horse's hoofs, too, the outline of one of which was far more clearly cut than that of the other three, showing that that was a new shoe. Since the cab was there after the rain began, and was not there at any time during the morning--I have Gregson's word for that--it follows that it must have been there during the night, and, therefore, that it brought those two individuals to the house.\" \"That seems simple enough,\" said I; \"but how about the other man's height?\" \"Why, the height of a man, in nine cases out of ten, can be told from the length of his stride. It is a simple calculation enough, though there is no use my boring you with figures. I had this fellow's stride both on the clay outside and on the dust within. Then I had a way of checking my calculation. When a man writes on a wall, his instinct leads him to write about the level of his own eyes. Now that writing was just over six feet from the ground. It was child's play.\" \"And his age?\" I asked. \"Well, if a man can stride four and a-half feet without the smallest effort, he can't be quite in the sere and yellow. That was the breadth of a puddle on the garden walk which he had evidently walked across. Patent-leather boots had gone round, and Square-toes had hopped over. There is no mystery about it at all. I am simply applying to ordinary life a few of those precepts of observation and deduction which I advocated in that article. Is there anything else that puzzles you?\" \"The finger nails and the Trichinopoly,\" I suggested. \"The writing on the wall was done with a man's forefinger dipped in blood. My glass allowed me to observe that the plaster was slightly scratched in doing it, which would not have been the case if the man's nail had been trimmed. I gathered up some scattered ash from the floor. It was dark in colour and flakey--such an ash as is only made by a Trichinopoly. I have made a special study of cigar ashes--in fact, I have written a monograph upon the subject. I flatter myself that I can distinguish at a glance the ash of any known brand, either of cigar or of tobacco. It is just in such details that the skilled detective differs from the Gregson and Lestrade type.\" \"And the florid face?\" I asked. \"Ah, that was a more daring shot, though I have no doubt that I was right. You must not ask me that at the present state of the affair.\" I passed my hand over my brow. \"My head is in a whirl,\" I remarked; \"the more one thinks of it the more mysterious it grows. How came these two men--if there were two men--into an empty house? What has become of the cabman who drove them? How could one man compel another to take poison? Where did the blood come from? What was the object of the murderer, since robbery had no part in it? How came the woman's ring there? Above all, why should the second man write up the German word RACHE before decamping? I confess that I cannot see any possible way of reconciling all these facts.\" My companion smiled approvingly. \"You sum up the difficulties of the situation succinctly and well,\" he said. \"There is much that is still obscure, though I have quite made up my mind on the main facts. As to poor Lestrade's discovery it was simply a blind intended to put the police upon a wrong track, by suggesting Socialism and secret societies. It was not done by a German. The A, if you noticed, was printed somewhat after the German fashion. Now, a real German invariably prints in the Latin character, so that we may safely say that this was not written by one, but by a clumsy imitator who overdid his part. It was simply a ruse to divert inquiry into a wrong channel. I'm not going to tell you much more of the case, Doctor. You know a conjuror gets no credit when once he has explained his trick, and if I show you too much of my method of working, you will come to the conclusion that I am a very ordinary individual after all.\" \"I shall never do that,\" I answered; \"you have brought detection as near an exact science as it ever will be brought in this world.\" My companion flushed up with pleasure at my words, and the earnest way in which I uttered them. I had already observed that he was as sensitive to flattery on the score of his art as any girl could be of her beauty. \"I'll tell you one other thing,\" he said. \"Patent-leathers and Square-toes came in the same cab, and they walked down the pathway together as friendly as possible--arm-in-arm, in all probability. When they got inside they walked up and down the room--or rather, Patent-leathers stood still while Square-toes walked up and down. I could read all that in the dust; and I could read that as he walked he grew more and more excited. That is shown by the increased length of his strides. He was talking all the while, and working himself up, no doubt, into a fury. Then the tragedy occurred. I've told you all I know myself now, for the rest is mere surmise and conjecture. We have a good working basis, however, on which to start. We must hurry up, for I want to go to Halle's concert to hear Norman Neruda this afternoon.\" This conversation had occurred while our cab had been threading its way through a long succession of dingy streets and dreary by-ways. In the dingiest and dreariest of them our driver suddenly came to a stand. \"That's Audley Court in there,\" he said, pointing to a narrow slit in the line of dead-coloured brick. \"You'll find me here when you come back.\" Audley Court was not an attractive locality. The narrow passage led us into a quadrangle paved with flags and lined by sordid dwellings. We picked our way among groups of dirty children, and through lines of discoloured linen, until we came to Number 46, the door of which was decorated with a small slip of brass on which the name Rance was engraved. On enquiry we found that the constable was in bed, and we were shown into a little front parlour to await his coming. He appeared presently, looking a little irritable at being disturbed in his slumbers. \"I made my report at the office,\" he said. Holmes took a half-sovereign from his pocket and played with it pensively. \"We thought that we should like to hear it all from your own lips,\" he said. \"I shall be most happy to tell you anything I can,\" the constable answered with his eyes upon the little golden disk. \"Just let us hear it all in your own way as it occurred.\" Rance sat down on the horsehair sofa, and knitted his brows as though determined not to omit anything in his narrative. \"I'll tell it ye from the beginning,\" he said. \"My time is from ten at night to six in the morning. At eleven there was a fight at the 'White Hart'; but bar that all was quiet enough on the beat. At one o'clock it began to rain, and I met Harry Murcher--him who has the Holland Grove beat--and we stood together at the corner of Henrietta Street a-talkin'. Presently--maybe about two or a little after--I thought I would take a look round and see that all was right down the Brixton Road. It was precious dirty and lonely. Not a soul did I meet all the way down, though a cab or two went past me. I was a strollin' down, thinkin' between ourselves how uncommon handy a four of gin hot would be, when suddenly the glint of a light caught my eye in the window of that same house. Now, I knew that them two houses in Lauriston Gardens was empty on account of him that owns them who won't have the drains seed to, though the very last tenant what lived in one of them died o' typhoid fever. I was knocked all in a heap therefore at seeing a light in the window, and I suspected as something was wrong. When I got to the door--\" \"You stopped, and then walked back to the garden gate,\" my companion interrupted. \"What did you do that for?\" Rance gave a violent jump, and stared at Sherlock Holmes with the utmost amazement upon his features. \"Why, that's true, sir,\" he said; \"though how you come to know it, Heaven only knows. Ye see, when I got up to the door it was so still and so lonesome, that I thought I'd be none the worse for some one with me. I ain't afeared of anything on this side o' the grave; but I thought that maybe it was him that died o' the typhoid inspecting the drains what killed him. The thought gave me a kind o' turn, and I walked back to the gate to see if I could see Murcher's lantern, but there wasn't no sign of him nor of anyone else.\" \"There was no one in the street?\" \"Not a livin' soul, sir, nor as much as a dog. Then I pulled myself together and went back and pushed the door open. All was quiet inside, so I went into the room where the light was a-burnin'. There was a candle flickerin' on the mantelpiece--a red wax one--and by its light I saw--\" \"Yes, I know all that you saw. You walked round the room several times, and you knelt down by the body, and then you walked through and tried the kitchen door, and then--\" John Rance sprang to his feet with a frightened face and suspicion in his eyes. \"Where was you hid to see all that?\" he cried. \"It seems to me that you knows a deal more than you should.\" Holmes laughed and threw his card across the table to the constable. \"Don't get arresting me for the murder,\" he said. \"I am one of the hounds and not the wolf; Mr. Gregson or Mr. Lestrade will answer for that. Go on, though. What did you do next?\" Rance resumed his seat, without however losing his mystified expression. \"I went back to the gate and sounded my whistle. That brought Murcher and two more to the spot.\" \"Was the street empty then?\" \"Well, it was, as far as anybody that could be of any good goes.\" \"What do you mean?\" The constable's features broadened into a grin. \"I've seen many a drunk chap in my time,\" he said, \"but never anyone so cryin' drunk as that cove. He was at the gate when I came out, a-leanin' up ag'in the railings, and a-singin' at the pitch o' his lungs about Columbine's New-fangled Banner, or some such stuff. He couldn't stand, far less help.\" \"What sort of a man was he?\" asked Sherlock Holmes. John Rance appeared to be somewhat irritated at this digression. \"He was an uncommon drunk sort o' man,\" he said. \"He'd ha' found hisself in the station if we hadn't been so took up.\" \"His face--his dress--didn't you notice them?\" Holmes broke in impatiently. \"I should think I did notice them, seeing that I had to prop him up--me and Murcher between us. He was a long chap, with a red face, the lower part muffled round--\" \"That will do,\" cried Holmes. \"What became of him?\" \"We'd enough to do without lookin' after him,\" the policeman said, in an aggrieved voice. \"I'll wager he found his way home all right.\" \"How was he dressed?\" \"A brown overcoat.\" \"Had he a whip in his hand?\" \"A whip--no.\" \"He must have left it behind,\" muttered my companion. \"You didn't happen to see or hear a cab after that?\" \"No.\" \"There's a half-sovereign for you,\" my companion said, standing up and taking his hat. \"I am afraid, Rance, that you will never rise in the force. That head of yours should be for use as well as ornament. You might have gained your sergeant's stripes last night. The man whom you held in your hands is the man who holds the clue of this mystery, and whom we are seeking. There is no use of arguing about it now; I tell you that it is so. Come along, Doctor.\" We started off for the cab together, leaving our informant incredulous, but obviously uncomfortable. \"The blundering fool,\" Holmes said, bitterly, as we drove back to our lodgings. \"Just to think of his having such an incomparable bit of good luck, and not taking advantage of it.\" \"I am rather in the dark still. It is true that the description of this man tallies with your idea of the second party in this mystery. But why should he come back to the house after leaving it? That is not the way of criminals.\" \"The ring, man, the ring: that was what he came back for. If we have no other way of catching him, we can always bait our line with the ring. I shall have him, Doctor--I'll lay you two to one that I have him. I must thank you for it all. I might not have gone but for you, and so have missed the finest study I ever came across: a study in scarlet, eh? Why shouldn't we use a little art jargon. There's the scarlet thread of murder running through the colourless skein of life, and our duty is to unravel it, and isolate it, and expose every inch of it. And now for lunch, and then for Norman Neruda. Her attack and her bowing are splendid. What's that little thing of Chopin's she plays so magnificently: Tra-la-la-lira-lira-lay.\" Leaning back in the cab, this amateur bloodhound carolled away like a lark while I meditated upon the many-sidedness of the human mind. CHAPTER V Our Advertisement Brings A Visitor Our morning's exertions had been too much for my weak health, and I was tired out in the afternoon. After Holmes' departure for the concert, I lay down upon the sofa and endeavoured to get a couple of hours' sleep. It was a useless attempt. My mind had been too much excited by all that had occurred, and the strangest fancies and surmises crowded into it. Every time that I closed my eyes I saw before me the distorted baboon-like countenance of the murdered man. So sinister was the impression which that face had produced upon me that I found it difficult to feel anything but gratitude for him who had removed its owner from the world. If ever human features bespoke vice of the most malignant type, they were certainly those of Enoch J. Drebber, of Cleveland. Still I recognized that justice must be done, and that the depravity of the victim was no condonement in the eyes of the law. The more I thought of it the more extraordinary did my companion's hypothesis, that the man had been poisoned, appear. I remembered how he had sniffed his lips, and had no doubt that he had detected something which had given rise to the idea. Then, again, if not poison, what had caused the man's death, since there was neither wound nor marks of strangulation? But, on the other hand, whose blood was that which lay so thickly upon the floor? There were no signs of a struggle, nor had the victim any weapon with which he might have wounded an antagonist. As long as all these questions were unsolved, I felt that sleep would be no easy matter, either for Holmes or myself. His quiet self-confident manner convinced me that he had already formed a theory which explained all the facts, though what it was I could not for an instant conjecture. He was very late in returning--so late, that I knew that the concert could not have detained him all the time. Dinner was on the table before he appeared. \"It was magnificent,\" he said, as he took his seat. \"Do you remember what Darwin says about music? He claims that the power of producing and appreciating it existed among the human race long before the power of speech was arrived at. Perhaps that is why we are so subtly influenced by it. There are vague memories in our souls of those misty centuries when the world was in its childhood.\" \"That's rather a broad idea,\" I remarked. \"One's ideas must be as broad as Nature if they are to interpret Nature,\" he answered. \"What's the matter? You're not looking quite yourself. This Brixton Road affair has upset you.\" \"To tell the truth, it has,\" I said. \"I ought to be more case-hardened after my Afghan experiences. I saw my own comrades hacked to pieces at Maiwand without losing my nerve.\" \"I can understand. There is a mystery about this which stimulates the imagination; where there is no imagination there is no horror. Have you seen the evening paper?\" \"No.\" \"It gives a fairly good account of the affair. It does not mention the fact that when the man was raised up, a woman's wedding ring fell upon the floor. It is just as well it does not.\" \"Why?\" \"Look at this advertisement,\" he answered. \"I had one sent to every paper this morning immediately after the affair.\" He threw the paper across to me and I glanced at the place indicated. It was the first announcement in the \"Found\" column. \"In Brixton Road, this morning,\" it ran, \"a plain gold wedding ring, found in the roadway between the 'White Hart' Tavern and Holland Grove. Apply Dr. Watson, 221b, Baker Street, between eight and nine this evening.\" \"Excuse my using your name,\" he said. \"If I used my own some of these dunderheads would recognize it, and want to meddle in the affair.\" \"That is all right,\" I answered. \"But supposing anyone applies, I have no ring.\" \"Oh yes, you have,\" said he, handing me one. \"This will do very well. It is almost a facsimile.\" \"And who do you expect will answer this advertisement.\" \"Why, the man in the brown coat--our florid friend with the square toes. If he does not come himself he will send an accomplice.\" \"Would he not consider it as too dangerous?\" \"Not at all. If my view of the case is correct, and I have every reason to believe that it is, this man would rather risk anything than lose the ring. According to my notion he dropped it while stooping over Drebber's body, and did not miss it at the time. After leaving the house he discovered his loss and hurried back, but found the police already in possession, owing to his own folly in leaving the candle burning. He had to pretend to be drunk in order to allay the suspicions which might have been aroused by his appearance at the gate. Now put yourself in that man's place. On thinking the matter over, it must have occurred to him that it was possible that he had lost the ring in the road after leaving the house. What would he do, then? He would eagerly look out for the evening papers in the hope of seeing it among the articles found. His eye, of course, would light upon this. He would be overjoyed. Why should he fear a trap? There would be no reason in his eyes why the finding of the ring should be connected with the murder. He would come. He will come. You shall see him within an hour.\" \"And then?\" I asked. \"Oh, you can leave me to deal with him then. Have you any arms?\" \"I have my old service revolver and a few cartridges.\" \"You had better clean it and load it. He will be a desperate man, and though I shall take him unawares, it is as well to be ready for anything.\" I went to my bedroom and followed his advice. When I returned with the pistol the table had been cleared, and Holmes was engaged in his favourite occupation of scraping upon his violin. \"The plot thickens,\" he said, as I entered; \"I have just had an answer to my American telegram. My view of the case is the correct one.\" \"And that is?\" I asked eagerly. \"My fiddle would be the better for new strings,\" he remarked. \"Put your pistol in your pocket. When the fellow comes speak to him in an ordinary way. Leave the rest to me. Don't frighten him by looking at him too hard.\" \"It is eight o'clock now,\" I said, glancing at my watch. \"Yes. He will probably be here in a few minutes. Open the door slightly. That will do. Now put the key on the inside. Thank you! This is a queer old book I picked up at a stall yesterday--De Jure inter Gentes--published in Latin at Liege in the Lowlands, in 1642. Charles' head was still firm on his shoulders when this little brown-backed volume was struck off.\" \"Who is the printer?\" \"Philippe de Croy, whoever he may have been. On the fly-leaf, in very faded ink, is written 'Ex libris Guliolmi Whyte.' I wonder who William Whyte was. Some pragmatical seventeenth century lawyer, I suppose. His writing has a legal twist about it. Here comes our man, I think.\" As he spoke there was a sharp ring at the bell. Sherlock Holmes rose softly and moved his chair in the direction of the door. We heard the servant pass along the hall, and the sharp click of the latch as she opened it. \"Does Dr. Watson live here?\" asked a clear but rather harsh voice. We could not hear the servant's reply, but the door closed, and some one began to ascend the stairs. The footfall was an uncertain and shuffling one. A look of surprise passed over the face of my companion as he listened to it. It came slowly along the passage, and there was a feeble tap at the door. \"Come in,\" I cried. At my summons, instead of the man of violence whom we expected, a very old and wrinkled woman hobbled into the apartment. She appeared to be dazzled by the sudden blaze of light, and after dropping a curtsey, she stood blinking at us with her bleared eyes and fumbling in her pocket with nervous, shaky fingers. I glanced at my companion, and his face had assumed such a disconsolate expression that it was all I could do to keep my countenance. The old crone drew out an evening paper, and pointed at our advertisement. \"It's this as has brought me, good gentlemen,\" she said, dropping another curtsey; \"a gold wedding ring in the Brixton Road. It belongs to my girl Sally, as was married only this time twelvemonth, which her husband is steward aboard a Union boat, and what he'd say if he comes 'ome and found her without her ring is more than I can think, he being short enough at the best o' times, but more especially when he has the drink. If it please you, she went to the circus last night along with--\" \"Is that her ring?\" I asked. \"The Lord be thanked!\" cried the old woman; \"Sally will be a glad woman this night. That's the ring.\" \"And what may your address be?\" I inquired, taking up a pencil. \"13, Duncan Street, Houndsditch. A weary way from here.\" \"The Brixton Road does not lie between any circus and Houndsditch,\" said Sherlock Holmes sharply. The old woman faced round and looked keenly at him from her little red-rimmed eyes. \"The gentleman asked me for my address,\" she said. \"Sally lives in lodgings at 3, Mayfield Place, Peckham.\" \"And your name is--?\" \"My name is Sawyer--her's is Dennis, which Tom Dennis married her--and a smart, clean lad, too, as long as he's at sea, and no steward in the company more thought of; but when on shore, what with the women and what with liquor shops--\" \"Here is your ring, Mrs. Sawyer,\" I interrupted, in obedience to a sign from my companion; \"it clearly belongs to your daughter, and I am glad to be able to restore it to the rightful owner.\" With many mumbled blessings and protestations of gratitude the old crone packed it away in her pocket, and shuffled off down the stairs. Sherlock Holmes sprang to his feet the moment that she was gone and rushed into his room. He returned in a few seconds enveloped in an ulster and a cravat. \"I'll follow her,\" he said, hurriedly; \"she must be an accomplice, and will lead me to him. Wait up for me.\" The hall door had hardly slammed behind our visitor before Holmes had descended the stair. Looking through the window I could see her walking feebly along the other side, while her pursuer dogged her some little distance behind. \"Either his whole theory is incorrect,\" I thought to myself, \"or else he will be led now to the heart of the mystery.\" There was no need for him to ask me to wait up for him, for I felt that sleep was impossible until I heard the result of his adventure. It was close upon nine when he set out. I had no idea how long he might be, but I sat stolidly puffing at my pipe and skipping over the pages of Henri Murger's Vie de Bohème. Ten o'clock passed, and I heard the footsteps of the maid as they pattered off to bed. Eleven, and the more stately tread of the landlady passed my door, bound for the same destination. It was close upon twelve before I heard the sharp sound of his latch-key. The instant he entered I saw by his face that he had not been successful. Amusement and chagrin seemed to be struggling for the mastery, until the former suddenly carried the day, and he burst into a hearty laugh. \"I wouldn't have the Scotland Yarders know it for the world,\" he cried, dropping into his chair; \"I have chaffed them so much that they would never have let me hear the end of it. I can afford to laugh, because I know that I will be even with them in the long run.\" \"What is it then?\" I asked. \"Oh, I don't mind telling a story against myself. That creature had gone a little way when she began to limp and show every sign of being foot-sore. Presently she came to a halt, and hailed a four-wheeler which was passing. I managed to be close to her so as to hear the address, but I need not have been so anxious, for she sang it out loud enough to be heard at the other side of the street, 'Drive to 13, Duncan Street, Houndsditch,' she cried. This begins to look genuine, I thought, and having seen her safely inside, I perched myself behind. That's an art which every detective should be an expert at. Well, away we rattled, and never drew rein until we reached the street in question. I hopped off before we came to the door, and strolled down the street in an easy, lounging way. I saw the cab pull up. The driver jumped down, and I saw him open the door and stand expectantly. Nothing came out though. When I reached him he was groping about frantically in the empty cab, and giving vent to the finest assorted collection of oaths that ever I listened to. There was no sign or trace of his passenger, and I fear it will be some time before he gets his fare. On inquiring at Number 13 we found that the house belonged to a respectable paperhanger, named Keswick, and that no one of the name either of Sawyer or Dennis had ever been heard of there.\" \"You don't mean to say,\" I cried, in amazement, \"that that tottering, feeble old woman was able to get out of the cab while it was in motion, without either you or the driver seeing her?\" \"Old woman be damned!\" said Sherlock Holmes, sharply. \"We were the old women to be so taken in. It must have been a young man, and an active one, too, besides being an incomparable actor. The get-up was inimitable. He saw that he was followed, no doubt, and used this means of giving me the slip. It shows that the man we are after is not as lonely as I imagined he was, but has friends who are ready to risk something for him. Now, Doctor, you are looking done-up. Take my advice and turn in.\" I was certainly feeling very weary, so I obeyed his injunction. I left Holmes seated in front of the smouldering fire, and long into the watches of the night I heard the low, melancholy wailings of his violin, and knew that he was still pondering over the strange problem which he had set himself to unravel. CHAPTER VI Tobias Gregson Shows What He Can Do The papers next day were full of the \"Brixton Mystery,\" as they termed it. Each had a long account of the affair, and some had leaders upon it in addition. There was some information in them which was new to me. I still retain in my scrap-book numerous clippings and extracts bearing upon the case. Here is a condensation of a few of them:-- The Daily Telegraph remarked that in the history of crime there had seldom been a tragedy which presented stranger features. The German name of the victim, the absence of all other motive, and the sinister inscription on the wall, all pointed to its perpetration by political refugees and revolutionists. The Socialists had many branches in America, and the deceased had, no doubt, infringed their unwritten laws, and been tracked down by them. After alluding airily to the Vehmgericht, aqua tofana, Carbonari, the Marchioness de Brinvilliers, the Darwinian theory, the principles of Malthus, and the Ratcliff Highway murders, the article concluded by admonishing the Government and advocating a closer watch over foreigners in England. The Standard commented upon the fact that lawless outrages of the sort usually occurred under a Liberal Administration. They arose from the unsettling of the minds of the masses, and the consequent weakening of all authority. The deceased was an American gentleman who had been residing for some weeks in the Metropolis. He had stayed at the boarding-house of Madame Charpentier, in Torquay Terrace, Camberwell. He was accompanied in his travels by his private secretary, Mr. Joseph Stangerson. The two bade adieu to their landlady upon Tuesday, the 4th inst., and departed to Euston Station with the avowed intention of catching the Liverpool express. They were afterwards seen together upon the platform. Nothing more is known of them until Mr. Drebber's body was, as recorded, discovered in an empty house in the Brixton Road, many miles from Euston. How he came there, or how he met his fate, are questions which are still involved in mystery. Nothing is known of the whereabouts of Stangerson. We are glad to learn that Mr. Lestrade and Mr. Gregson, of Scotland Yard, are both engaged upon the case, and it is confidently anticipated that these well-known officers will speedily throw light upon the matter. The Daily News observed that there was no doubt as to the crime being a political one. The despotism and hatred of Liberalism which animated the Continental Governments had had the effect of driving to our shores a number of men who might have made excellent citizens were they not soured by the recollection of all that they had undergone. Among these men there was a stringent code of honour, any infringement of which was punished by death. Every effort should be made to find the secretary, Stangerson, and to ascertain some particulars of the habits of the deceased. A great step had been gained by the discovery of the address of the house at which he had boarded--a result which was entirely due to the acuteness and energy of Mr. Gregson of Scotland Yard. Sherlock Holmes and I read these notices over together at breakfast, and they appeared to afford him considerable amusement. \"I told you that, whatever happened, Lestrade and Gregson would be sure to score.\" \"That depends on how it turns out.\" \"Oh, bless you, it doesn't matter in the least. If the man is caught, it will be on account of their exertions; if he escapes, it will be in spite of their exertions. It's heads I win and tails you lose. Whatever they do, they will have followers. 'Un sot trouve toujours un plus sot qui l'admire.'\" \"What on earth is this?\" I cried, for at this moment there came the pattering of many steps in the hall and on the stairs, accompanied by audible expressions of disgust upon the part of our landlady. \"It's the Baker Street division of the detective police force,\" said my companion, gravely; and as he spoke there rushed into the room half a dozen of the dirtiest and most ragged street Arabs that ever I clapped eyes on. \"'Tention!\" cried Holmes, in a sharp tone, and the six dirty little scoundrels stood in a line like so many disreputable statuettes. \"In future you shall send up Wiggins alone to report, and the rest of you must wait in the street. Have you found it, Wiggins?\" \"No, sir, we hain't,\" said one of the youths. \"I hardly expected you would. You must keep on until you do. Here are your wages.\" He handed each of them a shilling. \"Now, off you go, and come back with a better report next time.\" He waved his hand, and they scampered away downstairs like so many rats, and we heard their shrill voices next moment in the street. \"There's more work to be got out of one of those little beggars than out of a dozen of the force,\" Holmes remarked. \"The mere sight of an official-looking person seals men's lips. These youngsters, however, go everywhere and hear everything. They are as sharp as needles, too; all they want is organisation.\" \"Is it on this Brixton case that you are employing them?\" I asked. \"Yes; there is a point which I wish to ascertain. It is merely a matter of time. Hullo! we are going to hear some news now with a vengeance! Here is Gregson coming down the road with beatitude written upon every feature of his face. Bound for us, I know. Yes, he is stopping. There he is!\" There was a violent peal at the bell, and in a few seconds the fair-haired detective came up the stairs, three steps at a time, and burst into our sitting-room. \"My dear fellow,\" he cried, wringing Holmes' unresponsive hand, \"congratulate me! I have made the whole thing as clear as day.\" A shade of anxiety seemed to me to cross my companion's expressive face. \"Do you mean that you are on the right track?\" he asked. \"The right track! Why, sir, we have the man under lock and key.\" \"And his name is?\" \"Arthur Charpentier, sub-lieutenant in Her Majesty's navy,\" cried Gregson, pompously, rubbing his fat hands and inflating his chest. Sherlock Holmes gave a sigh of relief, and relaxed into a smile. \"Take a seat, and try one of these cigars,\" he said. \"We are anxious to know how you managed it. Will you have some whiskey and water?\" \"I don't mind if I do,\" the detective answered. \"The tremendous exertions which I have gone through during the last day or two have worn me out. Not so much bodily exertion, you understand, as the strain upon the mind. You will appreciate that, Mr. Sherlock Holmes, for we are both brain-workers.\" \"You do me too much honour,\" said Holmes, gravely. \"Let us hear how you arrived at this most gratifying result.\" The detective seated himself in the arm-chair, and puffed complacently at his cigar. Then suddenly he slapped his thigh in a paroxysm of amusement. \"The fun of it is,\" he cried, \"that that fool Lestrade, who thinks himself so smart, has gone off upon the wrong track altogether. He is after the secretary Stangerson, who had no more to do with the crime than the babe unborn. I have no doubt that he has caught him by this time.\" The idea tickled Gregson so much that he laughed until he choked. \"And how did you get your clue?\" \"Ah, I'll tell you all about it. Of course, Doctor Watson, this is strictly between ourselves. The first difficulty which we had to contend with was the finding of this American's antecedents. Some people would have waited until their advertisements were answered, or until parties came forward and volunteered information. That is not Tobias Gregson's way of going to work. You remember the hat beside the dead man?\" \"Yes,\" said Holmes; \"by John Underwood and Sons, 129, Camberwell Road.\" Gregson looked quite crest-fallen. \"I had no idea that you noticed that,\" he said. \"Have you been there?\" \"No.\" \"Ha!\" cried Gregson, in a relieved voice; \"you should never neglect a chance, however small it may seem.\" \"To a great mind, nothing is little,\" remarked Holmes, sententiously. \"Well, I went to Underwood, and asked him if he had sold a hat of that size and description. He looked over his books, and came on it at once. He had sent the hat to a Mr. Drebber, residing at Charpentier's Boarding Establishment, Torquay Terrace. Thus I got at his address.\" \"Smart--very smart!\" murmured Sherlock Holmes. \"I next called upon Madame Charpentier,\" continued the detective. \"I found her very pale and distressed. Her daughter was in the room, too--an uncommonly fine girl she is, too; she was looking red about the eyes and her lips trembled as I spoke to her. That didn't escape my notice. I began to smell a rat. You know the feeling, Mr. Sherlock Holmes, when you come upon the right scent--a kind of thrill in your nerves. 'Have you heard of the mysterious death of your late boarder Mr. Enoch J. Drebber, of Cleveland?' I asked. \"The mother nodded. She didn't seem able to get out a word. The daughter burst into tears. I felt more than ever that these people knew something of the matter. \"'At what o'clock did Mr. Drebber leave your house for the train?' I asked. \"'At eight o'clock,' she said, gulping in her throat to keep down her agitation. 'His secretary, Mr. Stangerson, said that there were two trains--one at 9.15 and one at 11. He was to catch the first.' \"'And was that the last which you saw of him?' \"A terrible change came over the woman's face as I asked the question. Her features turned perfectly livid. It was some seconds before she could get out the single word 'Yes'--and when it did come it was in a husky unnatural tone. \"There was silence for a moment, and then the daughter spoke in a calm clear voice. \"'No good can ever come of falsehood, mother,' she said. 'Let us be frank with this gentleman. We did see Mr. Drebber again.' \"'God forgive you!' cried Madame Charpentier, throwing up her hands and sinking back in her chair. 'You have murdered your brother.' \"'Arthur would rather that we spoke the truth,' the girl answered firmly. \"'You had best tell me all about it now,' I said. 'Half-confidences are worse than none. Besides, you do not know how much we know of it.' \"'On your head be it, Alice!' cried her mother; and then, turning to me, 'I will tell you all, sir. Do not imagine that my agitation on behalf of my son arises from any fear lest he should have had a hand in this terrible affair. He is utterly innocent of it. My dread is, however, that in your eyes and in the eyes of others he may appear to be compromised. That however is surely impossible. His high character, his profession, his antecedents would all forbid it.' \"'Your best way is to make a clean breast of the facts,' I answered. 'Depend upon it, if your son is innocent he will be none the worse.' \"'Perhaps, Alice, you had better leave us together,' she said, and her daughter withdrew. 'Now, sir,' she continued, 'I had no intention of telling you all this, but since my poor daughter has disclosed it I have no alternative. Having once decided to speak, I will tell you all without omitting any particular.' \"'It is your wisest course,' said I. \"'Mr. Drebber has been with us nearly three weeks. He and his secretary, Mr. Stangerson, had been travelling on the Continent. I noticed a \"Copenhagen\" label upon each of their trunks, showing that that had been their last stopping place. Stangerson was a quiet reserved man, but his employer, I am sorry to say, was far otherwise. He was coarse in his habits and brutish in his ways. The very night of his arrival he became very much the worse for drink, and, indeed, after twelve o'clock in the day he could hardly ever be said to be sober. His manners towards the maid-servants were disgustingly free and familiar. Worst of all, he speedily assumed the same attitude towards my daughter, Alice, and spoke to her more than once in a way which, fortunately, she is too innocent to understand. On one occasion he actually seized her in his arms and embraced her--an outrage which caused his own secretary to reproach him for his unmanly conduct.' \"'But why did you stand all this,' I asked. 'I suppose that you can get rid of your boarders when you wish.' \"Mrs. Charpentier blushed at my pertinent question. 'Would to God that I had given him notice on the very day that he came,' she said. 'But it was a sore temptation. They were paying a pound a day each--fourteen pounds a week, and this is the slack season. I am a widow, and my boy in the Navy has cost me much. I grudged to lose the money. I acted for the best. This last was too much, however, and I gave him notice to leave on account of it. That was the reason of his going.' \"'Well?' \"'My heart grew light when I saw him drive away. My son is on leave just now, but I did not tell him anything of all this, for his temper is violent, and he is passionately fond of his sister. When I closed the door behind them a load seemed to be lifted from my mind. Alas, in less than an hour there was a ring at the bell, and I learned that Mr. Drebber had returned. He was much excited, and evidently the worse for drink. He forced his way into the room, where I was sitting with my daughter, and made some incoherent remark about having missed his train. He then turned to Alice, and before my very face, proposed to her that she should fly with him. \"You are of age,\" he said, \"and there is no law to stop you. I have money enough and to spare. Never mind the old girl here, but come along with me now straight away. You shall live like a princess.\" Poor Alice was so frightened that she shrunk away from him, but he caught her by the wrist and endeavoured to draw her towards the door. I screamed, and at that moment my son Arthur came into the room. What happened then I do not know. I heard oaths and the confused sounds of a scuffle. I was too terrified to raise my head. When I did look up I saw Arthur standing in the doorway laughing, with a stick in his hand. \"I don't think that fine fellow will trouble us again,\" he said. \"I will just go after him and see what he does with himself.\" With those words he took his hat and started off down the street. The next morning we heard of Mr. Drebber's mysterious death.' \"This statement came from Mrs. Charpentier's lips with many gasps and pauses. At times she spoke so low that I could hardly catch the words. I made shorthand notes of all that she said, however, so that there should be no possibility of a mistake.\" \"It's quite exciting,\" said Sherlock Holmes, with a yawn. \"What happened next?\" \"When Mrs. Charpentier paused,\" the detective continued, \"I saw that the whole case hung upon one point. Fixing her with my eye in a way which I always found effective with women, I asked her at what hour her son returned. \"'I do not know,' she answered. \"'Not know?' \"'No; he has a latch-key, and he let himself in.' \"'After you went to bed?' \"'Yes.' \"'When did you go to bed?' \"'About eleven.' \"'So your son was gone at least two hours?' \"'Yes.' \"'Possibly four or five?' \"'Yes.' \"'What was he doing during that time?' \"'I do not know,' she answered, turning white to her very lips. \"Of course after that there was nothing more to be done. I found out where Lieutenant Charpentier was, took two officers with me, and arrested him. When I touched him on the shoulder and warned him to come quietly with us, he answered us as bold as brass, 'I suppose you are arresting me for being concerned in the death of that scoundrel Drebber,' he said. We had said nothing to him about it, so that his alluding to it had a most suspicious aspect.\" \"Very,\" said Holmes. \"He still carried the heavy stick which the mother described him as having with him when he followed Drebber. It was a stout oak cudgel.\" \"What is your theory, then?\" \"Well, my theory is that he followed Drebber as far as the Brixton Road. When there, a fresh altercation arose between them, in the course of which Drebber received a blow from the stick, in the pit of the stomach, perhaps, which killed him without leaving any mark. The night was so wet that no one was about, so Charpentier dragged the body of his victim into the empty house. As to the candle, and the blood, and the writing on the wall, and the ring, they may all be so many tricks to throw the police on to the wrong scent.\" \"Well done!\" said Holmes in an encouraging voice. \"Really, Gregson, you are getting along. We shall make something of you yet.\" \"I flatter myself that I have managed it rather neatly,\" the detective answered proudly. \"The young man volunteered a statement, in which he said that after following Drebber some time, the latter perceived him, and took a cab in order to get away from him. On his way home he met an old shipmate, and took a long walk with him. On being asked where this old shipmate lived, he was unable to give any satisfactory reply. I think the whole case fits together uncommonly well. What amuses me is to think of Lestrade, who had started off upon the wrong scent. I am afraid he won't make much of--Why, by Jove, here's the very man himself!\" It was indeed Lestrade, who had ascended the stairs while we were talking, and who now entered the room. The assurance and jauntiness which generally marked his demeanour and dress were, however, wanting. His face was disturbed and troubled, while his clothes were disarranged and untidy. He had evidently come with the intention of consulting with Sherlock Holmes, for on perceiving his colleague he appeared to be embarrassed and put out. He stood in the centre of the room, fumbling nervously with his hat and uncertain what to do. \"This is a most extraordinary case,\" he said at last--\"a most incomprehensible affair.\" \"Ah, you find it so, Mr. Lestrade!\" cried Gregson, triumphantly. \"I thought you would come to that conclusion. Have you managed to find the Secretary, Mr. Joseph Stangerson?\" \"The Secretary, Mr. Joseph Stangerson,\" said Lestrade gravely, \"was murdered at Halliday's Private Hotel about six o'clock this morning.\" CHAPTER VII Light In The Darkness The intelligence with which Lestrade greeted us was so momentous and so unexpected, that we were all three fairly dumbfounded. Gregson sprang out of his chair and upset the remainder of his whiskey and water. I stared in silence at Sherlock Holmes, whose lips were compressed and his brows drawn down over his eyes. \"Stangerson too!\" he muttered. \"The plot thickens.\" \"It was quite thick enough before,\" grumbled Lestrade, taking a chair. \"I seem to have dropped into a sort of council of war.\" \"Are you--are you sure of this piece of intelligence?\" stammered Gregson. \"I have just come from his room,\" said Lestrade. \"I was the first to discover what had occurred.\" \"We have been hearing Gregson's view of the matter,\" Holmes observed. \"Would you mind letting us know what you have seen and done?\" \"I have no objection,\" Lestrade answered, seating himself. \"I freely confess that I was of the opinion that Stangerson was concerned in the death of Drebber. This fresh development has shown me that I was completely mistaken. Full of the one idea, I set myself to find out what had become of the Secretary. They had been seen together at Euston Station about half-past eight on the evening of the third. At two in the morning Drebber had been found in the Brixton Road. The question which confronted me was to find out how Stangerson had been employed between 8.30 and the time of the crime, and what had become of him afterwards. I telegraphed to Liverpool, giving a description of the man, and warning them to keep a watch upon the American boats. I then set to work calling upon all the hotels and lodging-houses in the vicinity of Euston. You see, I argued that if Drebber and his companion had become separated, the natural course for the latter would be to put up somewhere in the vicinity for the night, and then to hang about the station again next morning.\" \"They would be likely to agree on some meeting-place beforehand,\" remarked Holmes. \"So it proved. I spent the whole of yesterday evening in making enquiries entirely without avail. This morning I began very early, and at eight o'clock I reached Halliday's Private Hotel, in Little George Street. On my enquiry as to whether a Mr. Stangerson was living there, they at once answered me in the affirmative. \"'No doubt you are the gentleman whom he was expecting,' they said. 'He has been waiting for a gentleman for two days.' \"'Where is he now?' I asked. \"'He is upstairs in bed. He wished to be called at nine.' \"'I will go up and see him at once,' I said. \"It seemed to me that my sudden appearance might shake his nerves and lead him to say something unguarded. The Boots volunteered to show me the room: it was on the second floor, and there was a small corridor leading up to it. The Boots pointed out the door to me, and was about to go downstairs again when I saw something that made me feel sickish, in spite of my twenty years' experience. From under the door there curled a little red ribbon of blood, which had meandered across the passage and formed a little pool along the skirting at the other side. I gave a cry, which brought the Boots back. He nearly fainted when he saw it. The door was locked on the inside, but we put our shoulders to it, and knocked it in. The window of the room was open, and beside the window, all huddled up, lay the body of a man in his nightdress. He was quite dead, and had been for some time, for his limbs were rigid and cold. When we turned him over, the Boots recognized him at once as being the same gentleman who had engaged the room under the name of Joseph Stangerson. The cause of death was a deep stab in the left side, which must have penetrated the heart. And now comes the strangest part of the affair. What do you suppose was above the murdered man?\" I felt a creeping of the flesh, and a presentiment of coming horror, even before Sherlock Holmes answered. \"The word RACHE, written in letters of blood,\" he said. \"That was it,\" said Lestrade, in an awe-struck voice; and we were all silent for a while. There was something so methodical and so incomprehensible about the deeds of this unknown assassin, that it imparted a fresh ghastliness to his crimes. My nerves, which were steady enough on the field of battle tingled as I thought of it. \"The man was seen,\" continued Lestrade. \"A milk boy, passing on his way to the dairy, happened to walk down the lane which leads from the mews at the back of the hotel. He noticed that a ladder, which usually lay there, was raised against one of the windows of the second floor, which was wide open. After passing, he looked back and saw a man descend the ladder. He came down so quietly and openly that the boy imagined him to be some carpenter or joiner at work in the hotel. He took no particular notice of him, beyond thinking in his own mind that it was early for him to be at work. He has an impression that the man was tall, had a reddish face, and was dressed in a long, brownish coat. He must have stayed in the room some little time after the murder, for we found blood-stained water in the basin, where he had washed his hands, and marks on the sheets where he had deliberately wiped his knife.\" I glanced at Holmes on hearing the description of the murderer, which tallied so exactly with his own. There was, however, no trace of exultation or satisfaction upon his face. \"Did you find nothing in the room which could furnish a clue to the murderer?\" he asked. \"Nothing. Stangerson had Drebber's purse in his pocket, but it seems that this was usual, as he did all the paying. There was eighty odd pounds in it, but nothing had been taken. Whatever the motives of these extraordinary crimes, robbery is certainly not one of them. There were no papers or memoranda in the murdered man's pocket, except a single telegram, dated from Cleveland about a month ago, and containing the words, 'J. H. is in Europe.' There was no name appended to this message.\" \"And there was nothing else?\" Holmes asked. \"Nothing of any importance. The man's novel, with which he had read himself to sleep was lying upon the bed, and his pipe was on a chair beside him. There was a glass of water on the table, and on the window-sill a small chip ointment box containing a couple of pills.\" Sherlock Holmes sprang from his chair with an exclamation of delight. \"The last link,\" he cried, exultantly. \"My case is complete.\" The two detectives stared at him in amazement. \"I have now in my hands,\" my companion said, confidently, \"all the threads which have formed such a tangle. There are, of course, details to be filled in, but I am as certain of all the main facts, from the time that Drebber parted from Stangerson at the station, up to the discovery of the body of the latter, as if I had seen them with my own eyes. I will give you a proof of my knowledge. Could you lay your hand upon those pills?\" \"I have them,\" said Lestrade, producing a small white box; \"I took them and the purse and the telegram, intending to have them put in a place of safety at the Police Station. It was the merest chance my taking these pills, for I am bound to say that I do not attach any importance to them.\" \"Give them here,\" said Holmes. \"Now, Doctor,\" turning to me, \"are those ordinary pills?\" They certainly were not. They were of a pearly grey colour, small, round, and almost transparent against the light. \"From their lightness and transparency, I should imagine that they are soluble in water,\" I remarked. \"Precisely so,\" answered Holmes. \"Now would you mind going down and fetching that poor little devil of a terrier which has been bad so long, and which the landlady wanted you to put out of its pain yesterday.\" I went downstairs and carried the dog upstair in my arms. It's laboured breathing and glazing eye showed that it was not far from its end. Indeed, its snow-white muzzle proclaimed that it had already exceeded the usual term of canine existence. I placed it upon a cushion on the rug. \"I will now cut one of these pills in two,\" said Holmes, and drawing his penknife he suited the action to the word. \"One half we return into the box for future purposes. The other half I will place in this wine glass, in which is a teaspoonful of water. You perceive that our friend, the Doctor, is right, and that it readily dissolves.\" \"This may be very interesting,\" said Lestrade, in the injured tone of one who suspects that he is being laughed at, \"I cannot see, however, what it has to do with the death of Mr. Joseph Stangerson.\" \"Patience, my friend, patience! You will find in time that it has everything to do with it. I shall now add a little milk to make the mixture palatable, and on presenting it to the dog we find that he laps it up readily enough.\" As he spoke he turned the contents of the wine glass into a saucer and placed it in front of the terrier, who speedily licked it dry. Sherlock Holmes' earnest demeanour had so far convinced us that we all sat in silence, watching the animal intently, and expecting some startling effect. None such appeared, however. The dog continued to lie stretched upon the cushion, breathing in a laboured way, but apparently neither the better nor the worse for its draught. Holmes had taken out his watch, and as minute followed minute without result, an expression of the utmost chagrin and disappointment appeared upon his features. He gnawed his lip, drummed his fingers upon the table, and showed every other symptom of acute impatience. So great was his emotion, that I felt sincerely sorry for him, while the two detectives smiled derisively, by no means displeased at this check which he had met. \"It can't be a coincidence,\" he cried, at last springing from his chair and pacing wildly up and down the room; \"it is impossible that it should be a mere coincidence. The very pills which I suspected in the case of Drebber are actually found after the death of Stangerson. And yet they are inert. What can it mean? Surely my whole chain of reasoning cannot have been false. It is impossible! And yet this wretched dog is none the worse. Ah, I have it! I have it!\" With a perfect shriek of delight he rushed to the box, cut the other pill in two, dissolved it, added milk, and presented it to the terrier. The unfortunate creature's tongue seemed hardly to have been moistened in it before it gave a convulsive shiver in every limb, and lay as rigid and lifeless as if it had been struck by lightning. Sherlock Holmes drew a long breath, and wiped the perspiration from his forehead. \"I should have more faith,\" he said; \"I ought to know by this time that when a fact appears to be opposed to a long train of deductions, it invariably proves to be capable of bearing some other interpretation. Of the two pills in that box one was of the most deadly poison, and the other was entirely harmless. I ought to have known that before ever I saw the box at all.\" This last statement appeared to me to be so startling, that I could hardly believe that he was in his sober senses. There was the dead dog, however, to prove that his conjecture had been correct. It seemed to me that the mists in my own mind were gradually clearing away, and I began to have a dim, vague perception of the truth. \"All this seems strange to you,\" continued Holmes, \"because you failed at the beginning of the inquiry to grasp the importance of the single real clue which was presented to you. I had the good fortune to seize upon that, and everything which has occurred since then has served to confirm my original supposition, and, indeed, was the logical sequence of it. Hence things which have perplexed you and made the case more obscure, have served to enlighten me and to strengthen my conclusions. It is a mistake to confound strangeness with mystery. The most commonplace crime is often the most mysterious because it presents no new or special features from which deductions may be drawn. This murder would have been infinitely more difficult to unravel had the body of the victim been simply found lying in the roadway without any of those outré and sensational accompaniments which have rendered it remarkable. These strange details, far from making the case more difficult, have really had the effect of making it less so.\" Mr. Gregson, who had listened to this address with considerable impatience, could contain himself no longer. \"Look here, Mr. Sherlock Holmes,\" he said, \"we are all ready to acknowledge that you are a smart man, and that you have your own methods of working. We want something more than mere theory and preaching now, though. It is a case of taking the man. I have made my case out, and it seems I was wrong. Young Charpentier could not have been engaged in this second affair. Lestrade went after his man, Stangerson, and it appears that he was wrong too. You have thrown out hints here, and hints there, and seem to know more than we do, but the time has come when we feel that we have a right to ask you straight how much you do know of the business. Can you name the man who did it?\" \"I cannot help feeling that Gregson is right, sir,\" remarked Lestrade. \"We have both tried, and we have both failed. You have remarked more than once since I have been in the room that you had all the evidence which you require. Surely you will not withhold it any longer.\" \"Any delay in arresting the assassin,\" I observed, \"might give him time to perpetrate some fresh atrocity.\" Thus pressed by us all, Holmes showed signs of irresolution. He continued to walk up and down the room with his head sunk on his chest and his brows drawn down, as was his habit when lost in thought. \"There will be no more murders,\" he said at last, stopping abruptly and facing us. \"You can put that consideration out of the question. You have asked me if I know the name of the assassin. I do. The mere knowing of his name is a small thing, however, compared with the power of laying our hands upon him. This I expect very shortly to do. I have good hopes of managing it through my own arrangements; but it is a thing which needs delicate handling, for we have a shrewd and desperate man to deal with, who is supported, as I have had occasion to prove, by another who is as clever as himself. As long as this man has no idea that anyone can have a clue there is some chance of securing him; but if he had the slightest suspicion, he would change his name, and vanish in an instant among the four million inhabitants of this great city. Without meaning to hurt either of your feelings, I am bound to say that I consider these men to be more than a match for the official force, and that is why I have not asked your assistance. If I fail I shall, of course, incur all the blame due to this omission; but that I am prepared for. At present I am ready to promise that the instant that I can communicate with you without endangering my own combinations, I shall do so.\" Gregson and Lestrade seemed to be far from satisfied by this assurance, or by the depreciating allusion to the detective police. The former had flushed up to the roots of his flaxen hair, while the other's beady eyes glistened with curiosity and resentment. Neither of them had time to speak, however, before there was a tap at the door, and the spokesman of the street Arabs, young Wiggins, introduced his insignificant and unsavoury person. \"Please, sir,\" he said, touching his forelock, \"I have the cab downstairs.\" \"Good boy,\" said Holmes, blandly. \"Why don't you introduce this pattern at Scotland Yard?\" he continued, taking a pair of steel handcuffs from a drawer. \"See how beautifully the spring works. They fasten in an instant.\" \"The old pattern is good enough,\" remarked Lestrade, \"if we can only find the man to put them on.\" \"Very good, very good,\" said Holmes, smiling. \"The cabman may as well help me with my boxes. Just ask him to step up, Wiggins.\" I was surprised to find my companion speaking as though he were about to set out on a journey, since he had not said anything to me about it. There was a small portmanteau in the room, and this he pulled out and began to strap. He was busily engaged at it when the cabman entered the room. \"Just give me a help with this buckle, cabman,\" he said, kneeling over his task, and never turning his head. The fellow came forward with a somewhat sullen, defiant air, and put down his hands to assist. At that instant there was a sharp click, the jangling of metal, and Sherlock Holmes sprang to his feet again. \"Gentlemen,\" he cried, with flashing eyes, \"let me introduce you to Mr. Jefferson Hope, the murderer of Enoch Drebber and of Joseph Stangerson.\" The whole thing occurred in a moment--so quickly that I had no time to realize it. I have a vivid recollection of that instant, of Holmes' triumphant expression and the ring of his voice, of the cabman's dazed, savage face, as he glared at the glittering handcuffs, which had appeared as if by magic upon his wrists. For a second or two we might have been a group of statues. Then, with an inarticulate roar of fury, the prisoner wrenched himself free from Holmes's grasp, and hurled himself through the window. Woodwork and glass gave way before him; but before he got quite through, Gregson, Lestrade, and Holmes sprang upon him like so many staghounds. He was dragged back into the room, and then commenced a terrific conflict. So powerful and so fierce was he, that the four of us were shaken off again and again. He appeared to have the convulsive strength of a man in an epileptic fit. His face and hands were terribly mangled by his passage through the glass, but loss of blood had no effect in diminishing his resistance. It was not until Lestrade succeeded in getting his hand inside his neckcloth and half-strangling him that we made him realize that his struggles were of no avail; and even then we felt no security until we had pinioned his feet as well as his hands. That done, we rose to our feet breathless and panting. \"We have his cab,\" said Sherlock Holmes. \"It will serve to take him to Scotland Yard. And now, gentlemen,\" he continued, with a pleasant smile, \"we have reached the end of our little mystery. You are very welcome to put any questions that you like to me now, and there is no danger that I will refuse to answer them.\" PART II The Country of the Saints. CHAPTER I On The Great Alkali Plain In the central portion of the great North American Continent there lies an arid and repulsive desert, which for many a long year served as a barrier against the advance of civilisation. From the Sierra Nevada to Nebraska, and from the Yellowstone River in the north to the Colorado upon the south, is a region of desolation and silence. Nor is Nature always in one mood throughout this grim district. It comprises snow-capped and lofty mountains, and dark and gloomy valleys. There are swift-flowing rivers which dash through jagged cañons; and there are enormous plains, which in winter are white with snow, and in summer are grey with the saline alkali dust. They all preserve, however, the common characteristics of barrenness, inhospitality, and misery. There are no inhabitants of this land of despair. A band of Pawnees or of Blackfeet may occasionally traverse it in order to reach other hunting-grounds, but the hardiest of the braves are glad to lose sight of those awesome plains, and to find themselves once more upon their prairies. The coyote skulks among the scrub, the buzzard flaps heavily through the air, and the clumsy grizzly bear lumbers through the dark ravines, and picks up such sustenance as it can amongst the rocks. These are the sole dwellers in the wilderness. In the whole world there can be no more dreary view than that from the northern slope of the Sierra Blanco. As far as the eye can reach stretches the great flat plain-land, all dusted over with patches of alkali, and intersected by clumps of the dwarfish chaparral bushes. On the extreme verge of the horizon lie a long chain of mountain peaks, with their rugged summits flecked with snow. In this great stretch of country there is no sign of life, nor of anything appertaining to life. There is no bird in the steel-blue heaven, no movement upon the dull, grey earth--above all, there is absolute silence. Listen as one may, there is no shadow of a sound in all that mighty wilderness; nothing but silence--complete and heart-subduing silence. It has been said there is nothing appertaining to life upon the broad plain. That is hardly true. Looking down from the Sierra Blanco, one sees a pathway traced out across the desert, which winds away and is lost in the extreme distance. It is rutted with wheels and trodden down by the feet of many adventurers. Here and there there are scattered white objects which glisten in the sun, and stand out against the dull deposit of alkali. Approach, and examine them! They are bones: some large and coarse, others smaller and more delicate. The former have belonged to oxen, and the latter to men. For fifteen hundred miles one may trace this ghastly caravan route by these scattered remains of those who had fallen by the wayside. Looking down on this very scene, there stood upon the fourth of May, eighteen hundred and forty-seven, a solitary traveller. His appearance was such that he might have been the very genius or demon of the region. An observer would have found it difficult to say whether he was nearer to forty or to sixty. His face was lean and haggard, and the brown parchment-like skin was drawn tightly over the projecting bones; his long, brown hair and beard were all flecked and dashed with white; his eyes were sunken in his head, and burned with an unnatural lustre; while the hand which grasped his rifle was hardly more fleshy than that of a skeleton. As he stood, he leaned upon his weapon for support, and yet his tall figure and the massive framework of his bones suggested a wiry and vigorous constitution. His gaunt face, however, and his clothes, which hung so baggily over his shrivelled limbs, proclaimed what it was that gave him that senile and decrepit appearance. The man was dying--dying from hunger and from thirst. He had toiled painfully down the ravine, and on to this little elevation, in the vain hope of seeing some signs of water. Now the great salt plain stretched before his eyes, and the distant belt of savage mountains, without a sign anywhere of plant or tree, which might indicate the presence of moisture. In all that broad landscape there was no gleam of hope. North, and east, and west he looked with wild questioning eyes, and then he realised that his wanderings had come to an end, and that there, on that barren crag, he was about to die. \"Why not here, as well as in a feather bed, twenty years hence,\" he muttered, as he seated himself in the shelter of a boulder. Before sitting down, he had deposited upon the ground his useless rifle, and also a large bundle tied up in a grey shawl, which he had carried slung over his right shoulder. It appeared to be somewhat too heavy for his strength, for in lowering it, it came down on the ground with some little violence. Instantly there broke from the grey parcel a little moaning cry, and from it there protruded a small, scared face, with very bright brown eyes, and two little speckled, dimpled fists. \"You've hurt me!\" said a childish voice reproachfully. \"Have I though,\" the man answered penitently, \"I didn't go for to do it.\" As he spoke he unwrapped the grey shawl and extricated a pretty little girl of about five years of age, whose dainty shoes and smart pink frock with its little linen apron all bespoke a mother's care. The child was pale and wan, but her healthy arms and legs showed that she had suffered less than her companion. \"How is it now?\" he answered anxiously, for she was still rubbing the towsy golden curls which covered the back of her head. \"Kiss it and make it well,\" she said, with perfect gravity, shoving the injured part up to him. \"That's what mother used to do. Where's mother?\" \"Mother's gone. I guess you'll see her before long.\" \"Gone, eh!\" said the little girl. \"Funny, she didn't say good-bye; she 'most always did if she was just goin' over to Auntie's for tea, and now she's been away three days. Say, it's awful dry, ain't it? Ain't there no water, nor nothing to eat?\" \"No, there ain't nothing, dearie. You'll just need to be patient awhile, and then you'll be all right. Put your head up agin me like that, and then you'll feel bullier. It ain't easy to talk when your lips is like leather, but I guess I'd best let you know how the cards lie. What's that you've got?\" \"Pretty things! fine things!\" cried the little girl enthusiastically, holding up two glittering fragments of mica. \"When we goes back to home I'll give them to brother Bob.\" \"You'll see prettier things than them soon,\" said the man confidently. \"You just wait a bit. I was going to tell you though--you remember when we left the river?\" \"Oh, yes.\" \"Well, we reckoned we'd strike another river soon, d'ye see. But there was somethin' wrong; compasses, or map, or somethin', and it didn't turn up. Water ran out. Just except a little drop for the likes of you and--and--\" \"And you couldn't wash yourself,\" interrupted his companion gravely, staring up at his grimy visage. \"No, nor drink. And Mr. Bender, he was the fust to go, and then Indian Pete, and then Mrs. McGregor, and then Johnny Hones, and then, dearie, your mother.\" \"Then mother's a deader too,\" cried the little girl dropping her face in her pinafore and sobbing bitterly. \"Yes, they all went except you and me. Then I thought there was some chance of water in this direction, so I heaved you over my shoulder and we tramped it together. It don't seem as though we've improved matters. There's an almighty small chance for us now!\" \"Do you mean that we are going to die too?\" asked the child, checking her sobs, and raising her tear-stained face. \"I guess that's about the size of it.\" \"Why didn't you say so before?\" she said, laughing gleefully. \"You gave me such a fright. Why, of course, now as long as we die we'll be with mother again.\" \"Yes, you will, dearie.\" \"And you too. I'll tell her how awful good you've been. I'll bet she meets us at the door of Heaven with a big pitcher of water, and a lot of buckwheat cakes, hot, and toasted on both sides, like Bob and me was fond of. How long will it be first?\" \"I don't know--not very long.\" The man's eyes were fixed upon the northern horizon. In the blue vault of the heaven there had appeared three little specks which increased in size every moment, so rapidly did they approach. They speedily resolved themselves into three large brown birds, which circled over the heads of the two wanderers, and then settled upon some rocks which overlooked them. They were buzzards, the vultures of the west, whose coming is the forerunner of death. \"Cocks and hens,\" cried the little girl gleefully, pointing at their ill-omened forms, and clapping her hands to make them rise. \"Say, did God make this country?\" \"Of course He did,\" said her companion, rather startled by this unexpected question. \"He made the country down in Illinois, and He made the Missouri,\" the little girl continued. \"I guess somebody else made the country in these parts. It's not nearly so well done. They forgot the water and the trees.\" \"What would ye think of offering up prayer?\" the man asked diffidently. \"It ain't night yet,\" she answered. \"It don't matter. It ain't quite regular, but He won't mind that, you bet. You say over them ones that you used to say every night in the waggon when we was on the Plains.\" \"Why don't you say some yourself?\" the child asked, with wondering eyes. \"I disremember them,\" he answered. \"I hain't said none since I was half the height o' that gun. I guess it's never too late. You say them out, and I'll stand by and come in on the choruses.\" \"Then you'll need to kneel down, and me too,\" she said, laying the shawl out for that purpose. \"You've got to put your hands up like this. It makes you feel kind o' good.\" It was a strange sight had there been anything but the buzzards to see it. Side by side on the narrow shawl knelt the two wanderers, the little prattling child and the reckless, hardened adventurer. Her chubby face, and his haggard, angular visage were both turned up to the cloudless heaven in heartfelt entreaty to that dread being with whom they were face to face, while the two voices--the one thin and clear, the other deep and harsh--united in the entreaty for mercy and forgiveness. The prayer finished, they resumed their seat in the shadow of the boulder until the child fell asleep, nestling upon the broad breast of her protector. He watched over her slumber for some time, but Nature proved to be too strong for him. For three days and three nights he had allowed himself neither rest nor repose. Slowly the eyelids drooped over the tired eyes, and the head sunk lower and lower upon the breast, until the man's grizzled beard was mixed with the gold tresses of his companion, and both slept the same deep and dreamless slumber. Had the wanderer remained awake for another half hour a strange sight would have met his eyes. Far away on the extreme verge of the alkali plain there rose up a little spray of dust, very slight at first, and hardly to be distinguished from the mists of the distance, but gradually growing higher and broader until it formed a solid, well-defined cloud. This cloud continued to increase in size until it became evident that it could only be raised by a great multitude of moving creatures. In more fertile spots the observer would have come to the conclusion that one of those great herds of bisons which graze upon the prairie land was approaching him. This was obviously impossible in these arid wilds. As the whirl of dust drew nearer to the solitary bluff upon which the two castaways were reposing, the canvas-covered tilts of waggons and the figures of armed horsemen began to show up through the haze, and the apparition revealed itself as being a great caravan upon its journey for the West. But what a caravan! When the head of it had reached the base of the mountains, the rear was not yet visible on the horizon. Right across the enormous plain stretched the straggling array, waggons and carts, men on horseback, and men on foot. Innumerable women who staggered along under burdens, and children who toddled beside the waggons or peeped out from under the white coverings. This was evidently no ordinary party of immigrants, but rather some nomad people who had been compelled from stress of circumstances to seek themselves a new country. There rose through the clear air a confused clattering and rumbling from this great mass of humanity, with the creaking of wheels and the neighing of horses. Loud as it was, it was not sufficient to rouse the two tired wayfarers above them. At the head of the column there rode a score or more of grave ironfaced men, clad in sombre homespun garments and armed with rifles. On reaching the base of the bluff they halted, and held a short council among themselves. \"The wells are to the right, my brothers,\" said one, a hard-lipped, clean-shaven man with grizzly hair. \"To the right of the Sierra Blanco--so we shall reach the Rio Grande,\" said another. \"Fear not for water,\" cried a third. \"He who could draw it from the rocks will not now abandon His own chosen people.\" \"Amen! Amen!\" responded the whole party. They were about to resume their journey when one of the youngest and keenest-eyed uttered an exclamation and pointed up at the rugged crag above them. From its summit there fluttered a little wisp of pink, showing up hard and bright against the grey rocks behind. At the sight there was a general reining up of horses and unslinging of guns, while fresh horsemen came galloping up to reinforce the vanguard. The word \"Redskins\" was on every lip. \"There can't be any number of Injuns here,\" said the elderly man who appeared to be in command. \"We have passed the Pawnees, and there are no other tribes until we cross the great mountains.\" \"Shall I go forward and see, Brother Stangerson,\" asked one of the band. \"And I,\" \"and I,\" cried a dozen voices. \"Leave your horses below and we will await you here,\" the Elder answered. In a moment the young fellows had dismounted, fastened their horses, and were ascending the precipitous slope which led up to the object which had excited their curiosity. They advanced rapidly and noiselessly, with the confidence and dexterity of practised scouts. The watchers from the plain below could see them flit from rock to rock until their figures stood out against the skyline. The young man who had first given the alarm was leading them. Suddenly his followers saw him throw up his hands, as though overcome with astonishment, and on joining him they were affected in the same way by the sight which met their eyes. On the little plateau which crowned the barren hill there stood a single giant boulder, and against this boulder there lay a tall man, long-bearded and hard-featured, but of an excessive thinness. His placid face and regular breathing showed that he was fast asleep. Beside him lay a little child, with her round white arms encircling his brown sinewy neck, and her golden haired head resting upon the breast of his velveteen tunic. Her rosy lips were parted, showing the regular line of snow-white teeth within, and a playful smile played over her infantile features. Her plump little white legs terminating in white socks and neat shoes with shining buckles, offered a strange contrast to the long shrivelled members of her companion. On the ledge of rock above this strange couple there stood three solemn buzzards, who, at the sight of the new comers uttered raucous screams of disappointment and flapped sullenly away. The cries of the foul birds awoke the two sleepers who stared about them in bewilderment. The man staggered to his feet and looked down upon the plain which had been so desolate when sleep had overtaken him, and which was now traversed by this enormous body of men and of beasts. His face assumed an expression of incredulity as he gazed, and he passed his boney hand over his eyes. \"This is what they call delirium, I guess,\" he muttered. The child stood beside him, holding on to the skirt of his coat, and said nothing but looked all round her with the wondering questioning gaze of childhood. The rescuing party were speedily able to convince the two castaways that their appearance was no delusion. One of them seized the little girl, and hoisted her upon his shoulder, while two others supported her gaunt companion, and assisted him towards the waggons. \"My name is John Ferrier,\" the wanderer explained; \"me and that little un are all that's left o' twenty-one people. The rest is all dead o' thirst and hunger away down in the south.\" \"Is she your child?\" asked someone. \"I guess she is now,\" the other cried, defiantly; \"she's mine 'cause I saved her. No man will take her from me. She's Lucy Ferrier from this day on. Who are you, though?\" he continued, glancing with curiosity at his stalwart, sunburned rescuers; \"there seems to be a powerful lot of ye.\" \"Nigh upon ten thousand,\" said one of the young men; \"we are the persecuted children of God--the chosen of the Angel Merona.\" \"I never heard tell on him,\" said the wanderer. \"He appears to have chosen a fair crowd of ye.\" \"Do not jest at that which is sacred,\" said the other sternly. \"We are of those who believe in those sacred writings, drawn in Egyptian letters on plates of beaten gold, which were handed unto the holy Joseph Smith at Palmyra. We have come from Nauvoo, in the State of Illinois, where we had founded our temple. We have come to seek a refuge from the violent man and from the godless, even though it be the heart of the desert.\" The name of Nauvoo evidently recalled recollections to John Ferrier. \"I see,\" he said, \"you are the Mormons.\" \"We are the Mormons,\" answered his companions with one voice. \"And where are you going?\" \"We do not know. The hand of God is leading us under the person of our Prophet. You must come before him. He shall say what is to be done with you.\" They had reached the base of the hill by this time, and were surrounded by crowds of the pilgrims--pale-faced meek-looking women, strong laughing children, and anxious earnest-eyed men. Many were the cries of astonishment and of commiseration which arose from them when they perceived the youth of one of the strangers and the destitution of the other. Their escort did not halt, however, but pushed on, followed by a great crowd of Mormons, until they reached a waggon, which was conspicuous for its great size and for the gaudiness and smartness of its appearance. Six horses were yoked to it, whereas the others were furnished with two, or, at most, four a-piece. Beside the driver there sat a man who could not have been more than thirty years of age, but whose massive head and resolute expression marked him as a leader. He was reading a brown-backed volume, but as the crowd approached he laid it aside, and listened attentively to an account of the episode. Then he turned to the two castaways. \"If we take you with us,\" he said, in solemn words, \"it can only be as believers in our own creed. We shall have no wolves in our fold. Better far that your bones should bleach in this wilderness than that you should prove to be that little speck of decay which in time corrupts the whole fruit. Will you come with us on these terms?\" \"Guess I'll come with you on any terms,\" said Ferrier, with such emphasis that the grave Elders could not restrain a smile. The leader alone retained his stern, impressive expression. \"Take him, Brother Stangerson,\" he said, \"give him food and drink, and the child likewise. Let it be your task also to teach him our holy creed. We have delayed long enough. Forward! On, on to Zion!\" \"On, on to Zion!\" cried the crowd of Mormons, and the words rippled down the long caravan, passing from mouth to mouth until they died away in a dull murmur in the far distance. With a cracking of whips and a creaking of wheels the great waggons got into motion, and soon the whole caravan was winding along once more. The Elder to whose care the two waifs had been committed, led them to his waggon, where a meal was already awaiting them. \"You shall remain here,\" he said. \"In a few days you will have recovered from your fatigues. In the meantime, remember that now and forever you are of our religion. Brigham Young has said it, and he has spoken with the voice of Joseph Smith, which is the voice of God.\" CHAPTER II The Flower Of Utah This is not the place to commemorate the trials and privations endured by the immigrant Mormons before they came to their final haven. From the shores of the Mississippi to the western slopes of the Rocky Mountains they had struggled on with a constancy almost unparalleled in history. The savage man, and the savage beast, hunger, thirst, fatigue, and disease--every impediment which Nature could place in the way--had all been overcome with Anglo-Saxon tenacity. Yet the long journey and the accumulated terrors had shaken the hearts of the stoutest among them. There was not one who did not sink upon his knees in heartfelt prayer when they saw the broad valley of Utah bathed in the sunlight beneath them, and learned from the lips of their leader that this was the promised land, and that these virgin acres were to be theirs for evermore. Young speedily proved himself to be a skilful administrator as well as a resolute chief. Maps were drawn and charts prepared, in which the future city was sketched out. All around farms were apportioned and allotted in proportion to the standing of each individual. The tradesman was put to his trade and the artisan to his calling. In the town streets and squares sprang up, as if by magic. In the country there was draining and hedging, planting and clearing, until the next summer saw the whole country golden with the wheat crop. Everything prospered in the strange settlement. Above all, the great temple which they had erected in the centre of the city grew ever taller and larger. From the first blush of dawn until the closing of the twilight, the clatter of the hammer and the rasp of the saw was never absent from the monument which the immigrants erected to Him who had led them safe through many dangers. The two castaways, John Ferrier and the little girl who had shared his fortunes and had been adopted as his daughter, accompanied the Mormons to the end of their great pilgrimage. Little Lucy Ferrier was borne along pleasantly enough in Elder Stangerson's waggon, a retreat which she shared with the Mormon's three wives and with his son, a headstrong forward boy of twelve. Having rallied, with the elasticity of childhood, from the shock caused by her mother's death, she soon became a pet with the women, and reconciled herself to this new life in her moving canvas-covered home. In the meantime Ferrier having recovered from his privations, distinguished himself as a useful guide and an indefatigable hunter. So rapidly did he gain the esteem of his new companions, that when they reached the end of their wanderings, it was unanimously agreed that he should be provided with as large and as fertile a tract of land as any of the settlers, with the exception of Young himself, and of Stangerson, Kemball, Johnston, and Drebber, who were the four principal Elders. On the farm thus acquired John Ferrier built himself a substantial log-house, which received so many additions in succeeding years that it grew into a roomy villa. He was a man of a practical turn of mind, keen in his dealings and skilful with his hands. His iron constitution enabled him to work morning and evening at improving and tilling his lands. Hence it came about that his farm and all that belonged to him prospered exceedingly. In three years he was better off than his neighbours, in six he was well-to-do, in nine he was rich, and in twelve there were not half a dozen men in the whole of Salt Lake City who could compare with him. From the great inland sea to the distant Wahsatch Mountains there was no name better known than that of John Ferrier. There was one way and only one in which he offended the susceptibilities of his co-religionists. No argument or persuasion could ever induce him to set up a female establishment after the manner of his companions. He never gave reasons for this persistent refusal, but contented himself by resolutely and inflexibly adhering to his determination. There were some who accused him of lukewarmness in his adopted religion, and others who put it down to greed of wealth and reluctance to incur expense. Others, again, spoke of some early love affair, and of a fair-haired girl who had pined away on the shores of the Atlantic. Whatever the reason, Ferrier remained strictly celibate. In every other respect he conformed to the religion of the young settlement, and gained the name of being an orthodox and straight-walking man. Lucy Ferrier grew up within the log-house, and assisted her adopted father in all his undertakings. The keen air of the mountains and the balsamic odour of the pine trees took the place of nurse and mother to the young girl. As year succeeded to year she grew taller and stronger, her cheek more rudy, and her step more elastic. Many a wayfarer upon the high road which ran by Ferrier's farm felt long-forgotten thoughts revive in their mind as they watched her lithe girlish figure tripping through the wheatfields, or met her mounted upon her father's mustang, and managing it with all the ease and grace of a true child of the West. So the bud blossomed into a flower, and the year which saw her father the richest of the farmers left her as fair a specimen of American girlhood as could be found in the whole Pacific slope. It was not the father, however, who first discovered that the child had developed into the woman. It seldom is in such cases. That mysterious change is too subtle and too gradual to be measured by dates. Least of all does the maiden herself know it until the tone of a voice or the touch of a hand sets her heart thrilling within her, and she learns, with a mixture of pride and of fear, that a new and a larger nature has awoken within her. There are few who cannot recall that day and remember the one little incident which heralded the dawn of a new life. In the case of Lucy Ferrier the occasion was serious enough in itself, apart from its future influence on her destiny and that of many besides. It was a warm June morning, and the Latter Day Saints were as busy as the bees whose hive they have chosen for their emblem. In the fields and in the streets rose the same hum of human industry. Down the dusty high roads defiled long streams of heavily-laden mules, all heading to the west, for the gold fever had broken out in California, and the Overland Route lay through the City of the Elect. There, too, were droves of sheep and bullocks coming in from the outlying pasture lands, and trains of tired immigrants, men and horses equally weary of their interminable journey. Through all this motley assemblage, threading her way with the skill of an accomplished rider, there galloped Lucy Ferrier, her fair face flushed with the exercise and her long chestnut hair floating out behind her. She had a commission from her father in the City, and was dashing in as she had done many a time before, with all the fearlessness of youth, thinking only of her task and how it was to be performed. The travel-stained adventurers gazed after her in astonishment, and even the unemotional Indians, journeying in with their pelties, relaxed their accustomed stoicism as they marvelled at the beauty of the pale-faced maiden. She had reached the outskirts of the city when she found the road blocked by a great drove of cattle, driven by a half-dozen wild-looking herdsmen from the plains. In her impatience she endeavoured to pass this obstacle by pushing her horse into what appeared to be a gap. Scarcely had she got fairly into it, however, before the beasts closed in behind her, and she found herself completely imbedded in the moving stream of fierce-eyed, long-horned bullocks. Accustomed as she was to deal with cattle, she was not alarmed at her situation, but took advantage of every opportunity to urge her horse on in the hopes of pushing her way through the cavalcade. Unfortunately the horns of one of the creatures, either by accident or design, came in violent contact with the flank of the mustang, and excited it to madness. In an instant it reared up upon its hind legs with a snort of rage, and pranced and tossed in a way that would have unseated any but a most skilful rider. The situation was full of peril. Every plunge of the excited horse brought it against the horns again, and goaded it to fresh madness. It was all that the girl could do to keep herself in the saddle, yet a slip would mean a terrible death under the hoofs of the unwieldy and terrified animals. Unaccustomed to sudden emergencies, her head began to swim, and her grip upon the bridle to relax. Choked by the rising cloud of dust and by the steam from the struggling creatures, she might have abandoned her efforts in despair, but for a kindly voice at her elbow which assured her of assistance. At the same moment a sinewy brown hand caught the frightened horse by the curb, and forcing a way through the drove, soon brought her to the outskirts. \"You're not hurt, I hope, miss,\" said her preserver, respectfully. She looked up at his dark, fierce face, and laughed saucily. \"I'm awful frightened,\" she said, naively; \"whoever would have thought that Poncho would have been so scared by a lot of cows?\" \"Thank God you kept your seat,\" the other said earnestly. He was a tall, savage-looking young fellow, mounted on a powerful roan horse, and clad in the rough dress of a hunter, with a long rifle slung over his shoulders. \"I guess you are the daughter of John Ferrier,\" he remarked, \"I saw you ride down from his house. When you see him, ask him if he remembers the Jefferson Hopes of St. Louis. If he's the same Ferrier, my father and he were pretty thick.\" \"Hadn't you better come and ask yourself?\" she asked, demurely. The young fellow seemed pleased at the suggestion, and his dark eyes sparkled with pleasure. \"I'll do so,\" he said, \"we've been in the mountains for two months, and are not over and above in visiting condition. He must take us as he finds us.\" \"He has a good deal to thank you for, and so have I,\" she answered, \"he's awful fond of me. If those cows had jumped on me he'd have never got over it.\" \"Neither would I,\" said her companion. \"You! Well, I don't see that it would make much matter to you, anyhow. You ain't even a friend of ours.\" The young hunter's dark face grew so gloomy over this remark that Lucy Ferrier laughed aloud. \"There, I didn't mean that,\" she said; \"of course, you are a friend now. You must come and see us. Now I must push along, or father won't trust me with his business any more. Good-bye!\" \"Good-bye,\" he answered, raising his broad sombrero, and bending over her little hand. She wheeled her mustang round, gave it a cut with her riding-whip, and darted away down the broad road in a rolling cloud of dust. Young Jefferson Hope rode on with his companions, gloomy and taciturn. He and they had been among the Nevada Mountains prospecting for silver, and were returning to Salt Lake City in the hope of raising capital enough to work some lodes which they had discovered. He had been as keen as any of them upon the business until this sudden incident had drawn his thoughts into another channel. The sight of the fair young girl, as frank and wholesome as the Sierra breezes, had stirred his volcanic, untamed heart to its very depths. When she had vanished from his sight, he realized that a crisis had come in his life, and that neither silver speculations nor any other questions could ever be of such importance to him as this new and all-absorbing one. The love which had sprung up in his heart was not the sudden, changeable fancy of a boy, but rather the wild, fierce passion of a man of strong will and imperious temper. He had been accustomed to succeed in all that he undertook. He swore in his heart that he would not fail in this if human effort and human perseverance could render him successful. He called on John Ferrier that night, and many times again, until his face was a familiar one at the farm-house. John, cooped up in the valley, and absorbed in his work, had had little chance of learning the news of the outside world during the last twelve years. All this Jefferson Hope was able to tell him, and in a style which interested Lucy as well as her father. He had been a pioneer in California, and could narrate many a strange tale of fortunes made and fortunes lost in those wild, halcyon days. He had been a scout too, and a trapper, a silver explorer, and a ranchman. Wherever stirring adventures were to be had, Jefferson Hope had been there in search of them. He soon became a favourite with the old farmer, who spoke eloquently of his virtues. On such occasions, Lucy was silent, but her blushing cheek and her bright, happy eyes, showed only too clearly that her young heart was no longer her own. Her honest father may not have observed these symptoms, but they were assuredly not thrown away upon the man who had won her affections. It was a summer evening when he came galloping down the road and pulled up at the gate. She was at the doorway, and came down to meet him. He threw the bridle over the fence and strode up the pathway. \"I am off, Lucy,\" he said, taking her two hands in his, and gazing tenderly down into her face; \"I won't ask you to come with me now, but will you be ready to come when I am here again?\" \"And when will that be?\" she asked, blushing and laughing. \"A couple of months at the outside. I will come and claim you then, my darling. There's no one who can stand between us.\" \"And how about father?\" she asked. \"He has given his consent, provided we get these mines working all right. I have no fear on that head.\" \"Oh, well; of course, if you and father have arranged it all, there's no more to be said,\" she whispered, with her cheek against his broad breast. \"Thank God!\" he said, hoarsely, stooping and kissing her. \"It is settled, then. The longer I stay, the harder it will be to go. They are waiting for me at the cañon. Good-bye, my own darling--good-bye. In two months you shall see me.\" He tore himself from her as he spoke, and, flinging himself upon his horse, galloped furiously away, never even looking round, as though afraid that his resolution might fail him if he took one glance at what he was leaving. She stood at the gate, gazing after him until he vanished from her sight. Then she walked back into the house, the happiest girl in all Utah. CHAPTER III John Ferrier Talks With The Prophet Three weeks had passed since Jefferson Hope and his comrades had departed from Salt Lake City. John Ferrier's heart was sore within him when he thought of the young man's return, and of the impending loss of his adopted child. Yet her bright and happy face reconciled him to the arrangement more than any argument could have done. He had always determined, deep down in his resolute heart, that nothing would ever induce him to allow his daughter to wed a Mormon. Such a marriage he regarded as no marriage at all, but as a shame and a disgrace. Whatever he might think of the Mormon doctrines, upon that one point he was inflexible. He had to seal his mouth on the subject, however, for to express an unorthodox opinion was a dangerous matter in those days in the Land of the Saints. Yes, a dangerous matter--so dangerous that even the most saintly dared only whisper their religious opinions with bated breath, lest something which fell from their lips might be misconstrued, and bring down a swift retribution upon them. The victims of persecution had now turned persecutors on their own account, and persecutors of the most terrible description. Not the Inquisition of Seville, nor the German Vehmgericht, nor the Secret Societies of Italy, were ever able to put a more formidable machinery in motion than that which cast a cloud over the State of Utah. Its invisibility, and the mystery which was attached to it, made this organization doubly terrible. It appeared to be omniscient and omnipotent, and yet was neither seen nor heard. The man who held out against the Church vanished away, and none knew whither he had gone or what had befallen him. His wife and his children awaited him at home, but no father ever returned to tell them how he had fared at the hands of his secret judges. A rash word or a hasty act was followed by annihilation, and yet none knew what the nature might be of this terrible power which was suspended over them. No wonder that men went about in fear and trembling, and that even in the heart of the wilderness they dared not whisper the doubts which oppressed them. At first this vague and terrible power was exercised only upon the recalcitrants who, having embraced the Mormon faith, wished afterwards to pervert or to abandon it. Soon, however, it took a wider range. The supply of adult women was running short, and polygamy without a female population on which to draw was a barren doctrine indeed. Strange rumours began to be bandied about--rumours of murdered immigrants and rifled camps in regions where Indians had never been seen. Fresh women appeared in the harems of the Elders--women who pined and wept, and bore upon their faces the traces of an unextinguishable horror. Belated wanderers upon the mountains spoke of gangs of armed men, masked, stealthy, and noiseless, who flitted by them in the darkness. These tales and rumours took substance and shape, and were corroborated and re-corroborated, until they resolved themselves into a definite name. To this day, in the lonely ranches of the West, the name of the Danite Band, or the Avenging Angels, is a sinister and an ill-omened one. Fuller knowledge of the organization which produced such terrible results served to increase rather than to lessen the horror which it inspired in the minds of men. None knew who belonged to this ruthless society. The names of the participators in the deeds of blood and violence done under the name of religion were kept profoundly secret. The very friend to whom you communicated your misgivings as to the Prophet and his mission, might be one of those who would come forth at night with fire and sword to exact a terrible reparation. Hence every man feared his neighbour, and none spoke of the things which were nearest his heart. One fine morning, John Ferrier was about to set out to his wheatfields, when he heard the click of the latch, and, looking through the window, saw a stout, sandy-haired, middle-aged man coming up the pathway. His heart leapt to his mouth, for this was none other than the great Brigham Young himself. Full of trepidation--for he knew that such a visit boded him little good--Ferrier ran to the door to greet the Mormon chief. The latter, however, received his salutations coldly, and followed him with a stern face into the sitting-room. \"Brother Ferrier,\" he said, taking a seat, and eyeing the farmer keenly from under his light-coloured eyelashes, \"the true believers have been good friends to you. We picked you up when you were starving in the desert, we shared our food with you, led you safe to the Chosen Valley, gave you a goodly share of land, and allowed you to wax rich under our protection. Is not this so?\" \"It is so,\" answered John Ferrier. \"In return for all this we asked but one condition: that was, that you should embrace the true faith, and conform in every way to its usages. This you promised to do, and this, if common report says truly, you have neglected.\" \"And how have I neglected it?\" asked Ferrier, throwing out his hands in expostulation. \"Have I not given to the common fund? Have I not attended at the Temple? Have I not--?\" \"Where are your wives?\" asked Young, looking round him. \"Call them in, that I may greet them.\" \"It is true that I have not married,\" Ferrier answered. \"But women were few, and there were many who had better claims than I. I was not a lonely man: I had my daughter to attend to my wants.\" \"It is of that daughter that I would speak to you,\" said the leader of the Mormons. \"She has grown to be the flower of Utah, and has found favour in the eyes of many who are high in the land.\" John Ferrier groaned internally. \"There are stories of her which I would fain disbelieve--stories that she is sealed to some Gentile. This must be the gossip of idle tongues. What is the thirteenth rule in the code of the sainted Joseph Smith? 'Let every maiden of the true faith marry one of the elect; for if she wed a Gentile, she commits a grievous sin.' This being so, it is impossible that you, who profess the holy creed, should suffer your daughter to violate it.\" John Ferrier made no answer, but he played nervously with his riding-whip. \"Upon this one point your whole faith shall be tested--so it has been decided in the Sacred Council of Four. The girl is young, and we would not have her wed grey hairs, neither would we deprive her of all choice. We Elders have many heifers*1, but our children must also be provided. Stangerson has a son, and Drebber has a son, and either of them would gladly welcome your daughter to their house. Let her choose between them. They are young and rich, and of the true faith. What say you to that?\" Ferrier remained silent for some little time with his brows knitted. \"You will give us time,\" he said at last. \"My daughter is very young--she is scarce of an age to marry.\" \"She shall have a month to choose,\" said Young, rising from his seat. \"At the end of that time she shall give her answer.\" He was passing through the door, when he turned, with flushed face and flashing eyes. \"It were better for you, John Ferrier,\" he thundered, \"that you and she were now lying blanched skeletons upon the Sierra Blanco, than that you should put your weak wills against the orders of the Holy Four!\" With a threatening gesture of his hand, he turned from the door, and Ferrier heard his heavy step scrunching along the shingly path. He was still sitting with his elbows upon his knees, considering how he should broach the matter to his daughter when a soft hand was laid upon his, and looking up, he saw her standing beside him. One glance at her pale, frightened face showed him that she had heard what had passed. \"I could not help it,\" she said, in answer to his look. \"His voice rang through the house. Oh, father, father, what shall we do?\" \"Don't you scare yourself,\" he answered, drawing her to him, and passing his broad, rough hand caressingly over her chestnut hair. \"We'll fix it up somehow or another. You don't find your fancy kind o' lessening for this chap, do you?\" A sob and a squeeze of his hand was her only answer. \"No; of course not. I shouldn't care to hear you say you did. He's a likely lad, and he's a Christian, which is more than these folk here, in spite o' all their praying and preaching. There's a party starting for Nevada to-morrow, and I'll manage to send him a message letting him know the hole we are in. If I know anything o' that young man, he'll be back here with a speed that would whip electro-telegraphs.\" Lucy laughed through her tears at her father's description. \"When he comes, he will advise us for the best. But it is for you that I am frightened, dear. One hears--one hears such dreadful stories about those who oppose the Prophet: something terrible always happens to them.\" \"But we haven't opposed him yet,\" her father answered. \"It will be time to look out for squalls when we do. We have a clear month before us; at the end of that, I guess we had best shin out of Utah.\" \"Leave Utah!\" \"That's about the size of it.\" \"But the farm?\" \"We will raise as much as we can in money, and let the rest go. To tell the truth, Lucy, it isn't the first time I have thought of doing it. I don't care about knuckling under to any man, as these folk do to their darned prophet. I'm a free-born American, and it's all new to me. Guess I'm too old to learn. If he comes browsing about this farm, he might chance to run up against a charge of buckshot travelling in the opposite direction.\" \"But they won't let us leave,\" his daughter objected. \"Wait till Jefferson comes, and we'll soon manage that. In the meantime, don't you fret yourself, my dearie, and don't get your eyes swelled up, else he'll be walking into me when he sees you. There's nothing to be afeared about, and there's no danger at all.\" John Ferrier uttered these consoling remarks in a very confident tone, but she could not help observing that he paid unusual care to the fastening of the doors that night, and that he carefully cleaned and loaded the rusty old shotgun which hung upon the wall of his bedroom. ----- *1: Heber C Kemball, in one of his sermons, alludes to his hundred wives under this endearing epithet. CHAPTER IV A Flight For Life On the morning which followed his interview with the Mormon Prophet, John Ferrier went in to Salt Lake City, and having found his acquaintance, who was bound for the Nevada Mountains, he entrusted him with his message to Jefferson Hope. In it he told the young man of the imminent danger which threatened them, and how necessary it was that he should return. Having done thus he felt easier in his mind, and returned home with a lighter heart. As he approached his farm, he was surprised to see a horse hitched to each of the posts of the gate. Still more surprised was he on entering to find two young men in possession of his sitting-room. One, with a long pale face, was leaning back in the rocking-chair, with his feet cocked up upon the stove. The other, a bull-necked youth with coarse bloated features, was standing in front of the window with his hands in his pocket, whistling a popular hymn. Both of them nodded to Ferrier as he entered, and the one in the rocking-chair commenced the conversation. \"Maybe you don't know us,\" he said. \"This here is the son of Elder Drebber, and I'm Joseph Stangerson, who travelled with you in the desert when the Lord stretched out His hand and gathered you into the true fold.\" \"As He will all the nations in His own good time,\" said the other in a nasal voice; \"He grindeth slowly but exceeding small.\" John Ferrier bowed coldly. He had guessed who his visitors were. \"We have come,\" continued Stangerson, \"at the advice of our fathers to solicit the hand of your daughter for whichever of us may seem good to you and to her. As I have but four wives and Brother Drebber here has seven, it appears to me that my claim is the stronger one.\" \"Nay, nay, Brother Stangerson,\" cried the other; \"the question is not how many wives we have, but how many we can keep. My father has now given over his mills to me, and I am the richer man.\" \"But my prospects are better,\" said the other, warmly. \"When the Lord removes my father, I shall have his tanning yard and his leather factory. Then I am your elder, and am higher in the Church.\" \"It will be for the maiden to decide,\" rejoined young Drebber, smirking at his own reflection in the glass. \"We will leave it all to her decision.\" During this dialogue, John Ferrier had stood fuming in the doorway, hardly able to keep his riding-whip from the backs of his two visitors. \"Look here,\" he said at last, striding up to them, \"when my daughter summons you, you can come, but until then I don't want to see your faces again.\" The two young Mormons stared at him in amazement. In their eyes this competition between them for the maiden's hand was the highest of honours both to her and her father. \"There are two ways out of the room,\" cried Ferrier; \"there is the door, and there is the window. Which do you care to use?\" His brown face looked so savage, and his gaunt hands so threatening, that his visitors sprang to their feet and beat a hurried retreat. The old farmer followed them to the door. \"Let me know when you have settled which it is to be,\" he said, sardonically. \"You shall smart for this!\" Stangerson cried, white with rage. \"You have defied the Prophet and the Council of Four. You shall rue it to the end of your days.\" \"The hand of the Lord shall be heavy upon you,\" cried young Drebber; \"He will arise and smite you!\" \"Then I'll start the smiting,\" exclaimed Ferrier furiously, and would have rushed upstairs for his gun had not Lucy seized him by the arm and restrained him. Before he could escape from her, the clatter of horses' hoofs told him that they were beyond his reach. \"The young canting rascals!\" he exclaimed, wiping the perspiration from his forehead; \"I would sooner see you in your grave, my girl, than the wife of either of them.\" \"And so should I, father,\" she answered, with spirit; \"but Jefferson will soon be here.\" \"Yes. It will not be long before he comes. The sooner the better, for we do not know what their next move may be.\" It was, indeed, high time that someone capable of giving advice and help should come to the aid of the sturdy old farmer and his adopted daughter. In the whole history of the settlement there had never been such a case of rank disobedience to the authority of the Elders. If minor errors were punished so sternly, what would be the fate of this arch rebel. Ferrier knew that his wealth and position would be of no avail to him. Others as well known and as rich as himself had been spirited away before now, and their goods given over to the Church. He was a brave man, but he trembled at the vague, shadowy terrors which hung over him. Any known danger he could face with a firm lip, but this suspense was unnerving. He concealed his fears from his daughter, however, and affected to make light of the whole matter, though she, with the keen eye of love, saw plainly that he was ill at ease. He expected that he would receive some message or remonstrance from Young as to his conduct, and he was not mistaken, though it came in an unlooked-for manner. Upon rising next morning he found, to his surprise, a small square of paper pinned on to the coverlet of his bed just over his chest. On it was printed, in bold straggling letters:-- \"Twenty-nine days are given you for amendment, and then--\" The dash was more fear-inspiring than any threat could have been. How this warning came into his room puzzled John Ferrier sorely, for his servants slept in an outhouse, and the doors and windows had all been secured. He crumpled the paper up and said nothing to his daughter, but the incident struck a chill into his heart. The twenty-nine days were evidently the balance of the month which Young had promised. What strength or courage could avail against an enemy armed with such mysterious powers? The hand which fastened that pin might have struck him to the heart, and he could never have known who had slain him. Still more shaken was he next morning. They had sat down to their breakfast when Lucy with a cry of surprise pointed upwards. In the centre of the ceiling was scrawled, with a burned stick apparently, the number 28. To his daughter it was unintelligible, and he did not enlighten her. That night he sat up with his gun and kept watch and ward. He saw and he heard nothing, and yet in the morning a great 27 had been painted upon the outside of his door. Thus day followed day; and as sure as morning came he found that his unseen enemies had kept their register, and had marked up in some conspicuous position how many days were still left to him out of the month of grace. Sometimes the fatal numbers appeared upon the walls, sometimes upon the floors, occasionally they were on small placards stuck upon the garden gate or the railings. With all his vigilance John Ferrier could not discover whence these daily warnings proceeded. A horror which was almost superstitious came upon him at the sight of them. He became haggard and restless, and his eyes had the troubled look of some hunted creature. He had but one hope in life now, and that was for the arrival of the young hunter from Nevada. Twenty had changed to fifteen and fifteen to ten, but there was no news of the absentee. One by one the numbers dwindled down, and still there came no sign of him. Whenever a horseman clattered down the road, or a driver shouted at his team, the old farmer hurried to the gate thinking that help had arrived at last. At last, when he saw five give way to four and that again to three, he lost heart, and abandoned all hope of escape. Single-handed, and with his limited knowledge of the mountains which surrounded the settlement, he knew that he was powerless. The more-frequented roads were strictly watched and guarded, and none could pass along them without an order from the Council. Turn which way he would, there appeared to be no avoiding the blow which hung over him. Yet the old man never wavered in his resolution to part with life itself before he consented to what he regarded as his daughter's dishonour. He was sitting alone one evening pondering deeply over his troubles, and searching vainly for some way out of them. That morning had shown the figure 2 upon the wall of his house, and the next day would be the last of the allotted time. What was to happen then? All manner of vague and terrible fancies filled his imagination. And his daughter--what was to become of her after he was gone? Was there no escape from the invisible network which was drawn all round them. He sank his head upon the table and sobbed at the thought of his own impotence. What was that? In the silence he heard a gentle scratching sound--low, but very distinct in the quiet of the night. It came from the door of the house. Ferrier crept into the hall and listened intently. There was a pause for a few moments, and then the low insidious sound was repeated. Someone was evidently tapping very gently upon one of the panels of the door. Was it some midnight assassin who had come to carry out the murderous orders of the secret tribunal? Or was it some agent who was marking up that the last day of grace had arrived. John Ferrier felt that instant death would be better than the suspense which shook his nerves and chilled his heart. Springing forward he drew the bolt and threw the door open. Outside all was calm and quiet. The night was fine, and the stars were twinkling brightly overhead. The little front garden lay before the farmer's eyes bounded by the fence and gate, but neither there nor on the road was any human being to be seen. With a sigh of relief, Ferrier looked to right and to left, until happening to glance straight down at his own feet he saw to his astonishment a man lying flat upon his face upon the ground, with arms and legs all asprawl. So unnerved was he at the sight that he leaned up against the wall with his hand to his throat to stifle his inclination to call out. His first thought was that the prostrate figure was that of some wounded or dying man, but as he watched it he saw it writhe along the ground and into the hall with the rapidity and noiselessness of a serpent. Once within the house the man sprang to his feet, closed the door, and revealed to the astonished farmer the fierce face and resolute expression of Jefferson Hope. \"Good God!\" gasped John Ferrier. \"How you scared me! Whatever made you come in like that.\" \"Give me food,\" the other said, hoarsely. \"I have had no time for bite or sup for eight-and-forty hours.\" He flung himself upon the cold meat and bread which were still lying upon the table from his host's supper, and devoured it voraciously. \"Does Lucy bear up well?\" he asked, when he had satisfied his hunger. \"Yes. She does not know the danger,\" her father answered. \"That is well. The house is watched on every side. That is why I crawled my way up to it. They may be darned sharp, but they're not quite sharp enough to catch a Washoe hunter.\" John Ferrier felt a different man now that he realized that he had a devoted ally. He seized the young man's leathery hand and wrung it cordially. \"You're a man to be proud of,\" he said. \"There are not many who would come to share our danger and our troubles.\" \"You've hit it there, pard,\" the young hunter answered. \"I have a respect for you, but if you were alone in this business I'd think twice before I put my head into such a hornet's nest. It's Lucy that brings me here, and before harm comes on her I guess there will be one less o' the Hope family in Utah.\" \"What are we to do?\" \"To-morrow is your last day, and unless you act to-night you are lost. I have a mule and two horses waiting in the Eagle Ravine. How much money have you?\" \"Two thousand dollars in gold, and five in notes.\" \"That will do. I have as much more to add to it. We must push for Carson City through the mountains. You had best wake Lucy. It is as well that the servants do not sleep in the house.\" While Ferrier was absent, preparing his daughter for the approaching journey, Jefferson Hope packed all the eatables that he could find into a small parcel, and filled a stoneware jar with water, for he knew by experience that the mountain wells were few and far between. He had hardly completed his arrangements before the farmer returned with his daughter all dressed and ready for a start. The greeting between the lovers was warm, but brief, for minutes were precious, and there was much to be done. \"We must make our start at once,\" said Jefferson Hope, speaking in a low but resolute voice, like one who realizes the greatness of the peril, but has steeled his heart to meet it. \"The front and back entrances are watched, but with caution we may get away through the side window and across the fields. Once on the road we are only two miles from the Ravine where the horses are waiting. By daybreak we should be half-way through the mountains.\" \"What if we are stopped,\" asked Ferrier. Hope slapped the revolver butt which protruded from the front of his tunic. \"If they are too many for us we shall take two or three of them with us,\" he said with a sinister smile. The lights inside the house had all been extinguished, and from the darkened window Ferrier peered over the fields which had been his own, and which he was now about to abandon for ever. He had long nerved himself to the sacrifice, however, and the thought of the honour and happiness of his daughter outweighed any regret at his ruined fortunes. All looked so peaceful and happy, the rustling trees and the broad silent stretch of grain-land, that it was difficult to realize that the spirit of murder lurked through it all. Yet the white face and set expression of the young hunter showed that in his approach to the house he had seen enough to satisfy him upon that head. Ferrier carried the bag of gold and notes, Jefferson Hope had the scanty provisions and water, while Lucy had a small bundle containing a few of her more valued possessions. Opening the window very slowly and carefully, they waited until a dark cloud had somewhat obscured the night, and then one by one passed through into the little garden. With bated breath and crouching figures they stumbled across it, and gained the shelter of the hedge, which they skirted until they came to the gap which opened into the cornfields. They had just reached this point when the young man seized his two companions and dragged them down into the shadow, where they lay silent and trembling. It was as well that his prairie training had given Jefferson Hope the ears of a lynx. He and his friends had hardly crouched down before the melancholy hooting of a mountain owl was heard within a few yards of them, which was immediately answered by another hoot at a small distance. At the same moment a vague shadowy figure emerged from the gap for which they had been making, and uttered the plaintive signal cry again, on which a second man appeared out of the obscurity. \"To-morrow at midnight,\" said the first who appeared to be in authority. \"When the Whip-poor-Will calls three times.\" \"It is well,\" returned the other. \"Shall I tell Brother Drebber?\" \"Pass it on to him, and from him to the others. Nine to seven!\" \"Seven to five!\" repeated the other, and the two figures flitted away in different directions. Their concluding words had evidently been some form of sign and countersign. The instant that their footsteps had died away in the distance, Jefferson Hope sprang to his feet, and helping his companions through the gap, led the way across the fields at the top of his speed, supporting and half-carrying the girl when her strength appeared to fail her. \"Hurry on! hurry on!\" he gasped from time to time. \"We are through the line of sentinels. Everything depends on speed. Hurry on!\" Once on the high road they made rapid progress. Only once did they meet anyone, and then they managed to slip into a field, and so avoid recognition. Before reaching the town the hunter branched away into a rugged and narrow footpath which led to the mountains. Two dark jagged peaks loomed above them through the darkness, and the defile which led between them was the Eagle Cañon in which the horses were awaiting them. With unerring instinct Jefferson Hope picked his way among the great boulders and along the bed of a dried-up watercourse, until he came to the retired corner, screened with rocks, where the faithful animals had been picketed. The girl was placed upon the mule, and old Ferrier upon one of the horses, with his money-bag, while Jefferson Hope led the other along the precipitous and dangerous path. It was a bewildering route for anyone who was not accustomed to face Nature in her wildest moods. On the one side a great crag towered up a thousand feet or more, black, stern, and menacing, with long basaltic columns upon its rugged surface like the ribs of some petrified monster. On the other hand a wild chaos of boulders and debris made all advance impossible. Between the two ran the irregular track, so narrow in places that they had to travel in Indian file, and so rough that only practised riders could have traversed it at all. Yet in spite of all dangers and difficulties, the hearts of the fugitives were light within them, for every step increased the distance between them and the terrible despotism from which they were flying. They soon had a proof, however, that they were still within the jurisdiction of the Saints. They had reached the very wildest and most desolate portion of the pass when the girl gave a startled cry, and pointed upwards. On a rock which overlooked the track, showing out dark and plain against the sky, there stood a solitary sentinel. He saw them as soon as they perceived him, and his military challenge of \"Who goes there?\" rang through the silent ravine. \"Travellers for Nevada,\" said Jefferson Hope, with his hand upon the rifle which hung by his saddle. They could see the lonely watcher fingering his gun, and peering down at them as if dissatisfied at their reply. \"By whose permission?\" he asked. \"The Holy Four,\" answered Ferrier. His Mormon experiences had taught him that that was the highest authority to which he could refer. \"Nine from seven,\" cried the sentinel. \"Seven from five,\" returned Jefferson Hope promptly, remembering the countersign which he had heard in the garden. \"Pass, and the Lord go with you,\" said the voice from above. Beyond his post the path broadened out, and the horses were able to break into a trot. Looking back, they could see the solitary watcher leaning upon his gun, and knew that they had passed the outlying post of the chosen people, and that freedom lay before them. CHAPTER V The Avenging Angels All night their course lay through intricate defiles and over irregular and rock-strewn paths. More than once they lost their way, but Hope's intimate knowledge of the mountains enabled them to regain the track once more. When morning broke, a scene of marvellous though savage beauty lay before them. In every direction the great snow-capped peaks hemmed them in, peeping over each other's shoulders to the far horizon. So steep were the rocky banks on either side of them, that the larch and the pine seemed to be suspended over their heads, and to need only a gust of wind to come hurtling down upon them. Nor was the fear entirely an illusion, for the barren valley was thickly strewn with trees and boulders which had fallen in a similar manner. Even as they passed, a great rock came thundering down with a hoarse rattle which woke the echoes in the silent gorges, and startled the weary horses into a gallop. As the sun rose slowly above the eastern horizon, the caps of the great mountains lit up one after the other, like lamps at a festival, until they were all ruddy and glowing. The magnificent spectacle cheered the hearts of the three fugitives and gave them fresh energy. At a wild torrent which swept out of a ravine they called a halt and watered their horses, while they partook of a hasty breakfast. Lucy and her father would fain have rested longer, but Jefferson Hope was inexorable. \"They will be upon our track by this time,\" he said. \"Everything depends upon our speed. Once safe in Carson we may rest for the remainder of our lives.\" During the whole of that day they struggled on through the defiles, and by evening they calculated that they were more than thirty miles from their enemies. At night-time they chose the base of a beetling crag, where the rocks offered some protection from the chill wind, and there huddled together for warmth, they enjoyed a few hours' sleep. Before daybreak, however, they were up and on their way once more. They had seen no signs of any pursuers, and Jefferson Hope began to think that they were fairly out of the reach of the terrible organization whose enmity they had incurred. He little knew how far that iron grasp could reach, or how soon it was to close upon them and crush them. About the middle of the second day of their flight their scanty store of provisions began to run out. This gave the hunter little uneasiness, however, for there was game to be had among the mountains, and he had frequently before had to depend upon his rifle for the needs of life. Choosing a sheltered nook, he piled together a few dried branches and made a blazing fire, at which his companions might warm themselves, for they were now nearly five thousand feet above the sea level, and the air was bitter and keen. Having tethered the horses, and bade Lucy adieu, he threw his gun over his shoulder, and set out in search of whatever chance might throw in his way. Looking back he saw the old man and the young girl crouching over the blazing fire, while the three animals stood motionless in the back-ground. Then the intervening rocks hid them from his view. He walked for a couple of miles through one ravine after another without success, though from the marks upon the bark of the trees, and other indications, he judged that there were numerous bears in the vicinity. At last, after two or three hours' fruitless search, he was thinking of turning back in despair, when casting his eyes upwards he saw a sight which sent a thrill of pleasure through his heart. On the edge of a jutting pinnacle, three or four hundred feet above him, there stood a creature somewhat resembling a sheep in appearance, but armed with a pair of gigantic horns. The big-horn--for so it is called--was acting, probably, as a guardian over a flock which were invisible to the hunter; but fortunately it was heading in the opposite direction, and had not perceived him. Lying on his face, he rested his rifle upon a rock, and took a long and steady aim before drawing the trigger. The animal sprang into the air, tottered for a moment upon the edge of the precipice, and then came crashing down into the valley beneath. The creature was too unwieldy to lift, so the hunter contented himself with cutting away one haunch and part of the flank. With this trophy over his shoulder, he hastened to retrace his steps, for the evening was already drawing in. He had hardly started, however, before he realized the difficulty which faced him. In his eagerness he had wandered far past the ravines which were known to him, and it was no easy matter to pick out the path which he had taken. The valley in which he found himself divided and sub-divided into many gorges, which were so like each other that it was impossible to distinguish one from the other. He followed one for a mile or more until he came to a mountain torrent which he was sure that he had never seen before. Convinced that he had taken the wrong turn, he tried another, but with the same result. Night was coming on rapidly, and it was almost dark before he at last found himself in a defile which was familiar to him. Even then it was no easy matter to keep to the right track, for the moon had not yet risen, and the high cliffs on either side made the obscurity more profound. Weighed down with his burden, and weary from his exertions, he stumbled along, keeping up his heart by the reflection that every step brought him nearer to Lucy, and that he carried with him enough to ensure them food for the remainder of their journey. He had now come to the mouth of the very defile in which he had left them. Even in the darkness he could recognize the outline of the cliffs which bounded it. They must, he reflected, be awaiting him anxiously, for he had been absent nearly five hours. In the gladness of his heart he put his hands to his mouth and made the glen re-echo to a loud halloo as a signal that he was coming. He paused and listened for an answer. None came save his own cry, which clattered up the dreary silent ravines, and was borne back to his ears in countless repetitions. Again he shouted, even louder than before, and again no whisper came back from the friends whom he had left such a short time ago. A vague, nameless dread came over him, and he hurried onwards frantically, dropping the precious food in his agitation. When he turned the corner, he came full in sight of the spot where the fire had been lit. There was still a glowing pile of wood ashes there, but it had evidently not been tended since his departure. The same dead silence still reigned all round. With his fears all changed to convictions, he hurried on. There was no living creature near the remains of the fire: animals, man, maiden, all were gone. It was only too clear that some sudden and terrible disaster had occurred during his absence--a disaster which had embraced them all, and yet had left no traces behind it. Bewildered and stunned by this blow, Jefferson Hope felt his head spin round, and had to lean upon his rifle to save himself from falling. He was essentially a man of action, however, and speedily recovered from his temporary impotence. Seizing a half-consumed piece of wood from the smouldering fire, he blew it into a flame, and proceeded with its help to examine the little camp. The ground was all stamped down by the feet of horses, showing that a large party of mounted men had overtaken the fugitives, and the direction of their tracks proved that they had afterwards turned back to Salt Lake City. Had they carried back both of his companions with them? Jefferson Hope had almost persuaded himself that they must have done so, when his eye fell upon an object which made every nerve of his body tingle within him. A little way on one side of the camp was a low-lying heap of reddish soil, which had assuredly not been there before. There was no mistaking it for anything but a newly-dug grave. As the young hunter approached it, he perceived that a stick had been planted on it, with a sheet of paper stuck in the cleft fork of it. The inscription upon the paper was brief, but to the point: JOHN FERRIER, Formerly of Salt Lake City, Died August 4th, 1860. The sturdy old man, whom he had left so short a time before, was gone, then, and this was all his epitaph. Jefferson Hope looked wildly round to see if there was a second grave, but there was no sign of one. Lucy had been carried back by their terrible pursuers to fulfil her original destiny, by becoming one of the harem of the Elder's son. As the young fellow realized the certainty of her fate, and his own powerlessness to prevent it, he wished that he, too, was lying with the old farmer in his last silent resting-place. Again, however, his active spirit shook off the lethargy which springs from despair. If there was nothing else left to him, he could at least devote his life to revenge. With indomitable patience and perseverance, Jefferson Hope possessed also a power of sustained vindictiveness, which he may have learned from the Indians amongst whom he had lived. As he stood by the desolate fire, he felt that the only one thing which could assuage his grief would be thorough and complete retribution, brought by his own hand upon his enemies. His strong will and untiring energy should, he determined, be devoted to that one end. With a grim, white face, he retraced his steps to where he had dropped the food, and having stirred up the smouldering fire, he cooked enough to last him for a few days. This he made up into a bundle, and, tired as he was, he set himself to walk back through the mountains upon the track of the avenging angels. For five days he toiled footsore and weary through the defiles which he had already traversed on horseback. At night he flung himself down among the rocks, and snatched a few hours of sleep; but before daybreak he was always well on his way. On the sixth day, he reached the Eagle Cañon, from which they had commenced their ill-fated flight. Thence he could look down upon the home of the saints. Worn and exhausted, he leaned upon his rifle and shook his gaunt hand fiercely at the silent widespread city beneath him. As he looked at it, he observed that there were flags in some of the principal streets, and other signs of festivity. He was still speculating as to what this might mean when he heard the clatter of horse's hoofs, and saw a mounted man riding towards him. As he approached, he recognized him as a Mormon named Cowper, to whom he had rendered services at different times. He therefore accosted him when he got up to him, with the object of finding out what Lucy Ferrier's fate had been. \"I am Jefferson Hope,\" he said. \"You remember me.\" The Mormon looked at him with undisguised astonishment--indeed, it was difficult to recognize in this tattered, unkempt wanderer, with ghastly white face and fierce, wild eyes, the spruce young hunter of former days. Having, however, at last, satisfied himself as to his identity, the man's surprise changed to consternation. \"You are mad to come here,\" he cried. \"It is as much as my own life is worth to be seen talking with you. There is a warrant against you from the Holy Four for assisting the Ferriers away.\" \"I don't fear them, or their warrant,\" Hope said, earnestly. \"You must know something of this matter, Cowper. I conjure you by everything you hold dear to answer a few questions. We have always been friends. For God's sake, don't refuse to answer me.\" \"What is it?\" the Mormon asked uneasily. \"Be quick. The very rocks have ears and the trees eyes.\" \"What has become of Lucy Ferrier?\" \"She was married yesterday to young Drebber. Hold up, man, hold up, you have no life left in you.\" \"Don't mind me,\" said Hope faintly. He was white to the very lips, and had sunk down on the stone against which he had been leaning. \"Married, you say?\" \"Married yesterday--that's what those flags are for on the Endowment House. There was some words between young Drebber and young Stangerson as to which was to have her. They'd both been in the party that followed them, and Stangerson had shot her father, which seemed to give him the best claim; but when they argued it out in council, Drebber's party was the stronger, so the Prophet gave her over to him. No one won't have her very long though, for I saw death in her face yesterday. She is more like a ghost than a woman. Are you off, then?\" \"Yes, I am off,\" said Jefferson Hope, who had risen from his seat. His face might have been chiselled out of marble, so hard and set was its expression, while its eyes glowed with a baleful light. \"Where are you going?\" \"Never mind,\" he answered; and, slinging his weapon over his shoulder, strode off down the gorge and so away into the heart of the mountains to the haunts of the wild beasts. Amongst them all there was none so fierce and so dangerous as himself. The prediction of the Mormon was only too well fulfilled. Whether it was the terrible death of her father or the effects of the hateful marriage into which she had been forced, poor Lucy never held up her head again, but pined away and died within a month. Her sottish husband, who had married her principally for the sake of John Ferrier's property, did not affect any great grief at his bereavement; but his other wives mourned over her, and sat up with her the night before the burial, as is the Mormon custom. They were grouped round the bier in the early hours of the morning, when, to their inexpressible fear and astonishment, the door was flung open, and a savage-looking, weather-beaten man in tattered garments strode into the room. Without a glance or a word to the cowering women, he walked up to the white silent figure which had once contained the pure soul of Lucy Ferrier. Stooping over her, he pressed his lips reverently to her cold forehead, and then, snatching up her hand, he took the wedding-ring from her finger. \"She shall not be buried in that,\" he cried with a fierce snarl, and before an alarm could be raised sprang down the stairs and was gone. So strange and so brief was the episode, that the watchers might have found it hard to believe it themselves or persuade other people of it, had it not been for the undeniable fact that the circlet of gold which marked her as having been a bride had disappeared. For some months Jefferson Hope lingered among the mountains, leading a strange wild life, and nursing in his heart the fierce desire for vengeance which possessed him. Tales were told in the City of the weird figure which was seen prowling about the suburbs, and which haunted the lonely mountain gorges. Once a bullet whistled through Stangerson's window and flattened itself upon the wall within a foot of him. On another occasion, as Drebber passed under a cliff a great boulder crashed down on him, and he only escaped a terrible death by throwing himself upon his face. The two young Mormons were not long in discovering the reason of these attempts upon their lives, and led repeated expeditions into the mountains in the hope of capturing or killing their enemy, but always without success. Then they adopted the precaution of never going out alone or after nightfall, and of having their houses guarded. After a time they were able to relax these measures, for nothing was either heard or seen of their opponent, and they hoped that time had cooled his vindictiveness. Far from doing so, it had, if anything, augmented it. The hunter's mind was of a hard, unyielding nature, and the predominant idea of revenge had taken such complete possession of it that there was no room for any other emotion. He was, however, above all things practical. He soon realized that even his iron constitution could not stand the incessant strain which he was putting upon it. Exposure and want of wholesome food were wearing him out. If he died like a dog among the mountains, what was to become of his revenge then? And yet such a death was sure to overtake him if he persisted. He felt that that was to play his enemy's game, so he reluctantly returned to the old Nevada mines, there to recruit his health and to amass money enough to allow him to pursue his object without privation. His intention had been to be absent a year at the most, but a combination of unforeseen circumstances prevented his leaving the mines for nearly five. At the end of that time, however, his memory of his wrongs and his craving for revenge were quite as keen as on that memorable night when he had stood by John Ferrier's grave. Disguised, and under an assumed name, he returned to Salt Lake City, careless what became of his own life, as long as he obtained what he knew to be justice. There he found evil tidings awaiting him. There had been a schism among the Chosen People a few months before, some of the younger members of the Church having rebelled against the authority of the Elders, and the result had been the secession of a certain number of the malcontents, who had left Utah and become Gentiles. Among these had been Drebber and Stangerson; and no one knew whither they had gone. Rumour reported that Drebber had managed to convert a large part of his property into money, and that he had departed a wealthy man, while his companion, Stangerson, was comparatively poor. There was no clue at all, however, as to their whereabouts. Many a man, however vindictive, would have abandoned all thought of revenge in the face of such a difficulty, but Jefferson Hope never faltered for a moment. With the small competence he possessed, eked out by such employment as he could pick up, he travelled from town to town through the United States in quest of his enemies. Year passed into year, his black hair turned grizzled, but still he wandered on, a human bloodhound, with his mind wholly set upon the one object upon which he had devoted his life. At last his perseverance was rewarded. It was but a glance of a face in a window, but that one glance told him that Cleveland in Ohio possessed the men whom he was in pursuit of. He returned to his miserable lodgings with his plan of vengeance all arranged. It chanced, however, that Drebber, looking from his window, had recognized the vagrant in the street, and had read murder in his eyes. He hurried before a justice of the peace, accompanied by Stangerson, who had become his private secretary, and represented to him that they were in danger of their lives from the jealousy and hatred of an old rival. That evening Jefferson Hope was taken into custody, and not being able to find sureties, was detained for some weeks. When at last he was liberated, it was only to find that Drebber's house was deserted, and that he and his secretary had departed for Europe. Again the avenger had been foiled, and again his concentrated hatred urged him to continue the pursuit. Funds were wanting, however, and for some time he had to return to work, saving every dollar for his approaching journey. At last, having collected enough to keep life in him, he departed for Europe, and tracked his enemies from city to city, working his way in any menial capacity, but never overtaking the fugitives. When he reached St. Petersburg they had departed for Paris; and when he followed them there he learned that they had just set off for Copenhagen. At the Danish capital he was again a few days late, for they had journeyed on to London, where he at last succeeded in running them to earth. As to what occurred there, we cannot do better than quote the old hunter's own account, as duly recorded in Dr. Watson's Journal, to which we are already under such obligations. CHAPTER VI A Continuation Of The Reminiscences Of John Watson, M.D. Our prisoner's furious resistance did not apparently indicate any ferocity in his disposition towards ourselves, for on finding himself powerless, he smiled in an affable manner, and expressed his hopes that he had not hurt any of us in the scuffle. \"I guess you're going to take me to the police-station,\" he remarked to Sherlock Holmes. \"My cab's at the door. If you'll loose my legs I'll walk down to it. I'm not so light to lift as I used to be.\" Gregson and Lestrade exchanged glances as if they thought this proposition rather a bold one; but Holmes at once took the prisoner at his word, and loosened the towel which we had bound round his ankles. He rose and stretched his legs, as though to assure himself that they were free once more. I remember that I thought to myself, as I eyed him, that I had seldom seen a more powerfully built man; and his dark sunburned face bore an expression of determination and energy which was as formidable as his personal strength. \"If there's a vacant place for a chief of the police, I reckon you are the man for it,\" he said, gazing with undisguised admiration at my fellow-lodger. \"The way you kept on my trail was a caution.\" \"You had better come with me,\" said Holmes to the two detectives. \"I can drive you,\" said Lestrade. \"Good! and Gregson can come inside with me. You too, Doctor, you have taken an interest in the case and may as well stick to us.\" I assented gladly, and we all descended together. Our prisoner made no attempt at escape, but stepped calmly into the cab which had been his, and we followed him. Lestrade mounted the box, whipped up the horse, and brought us in a very short time to our destination. We were ushered into a small chamber where a police Inspector noted down our prisoner's name and the names of the men with whose murder he had been charged. The official was a white-faced unemotional man, who went through his duties in a dull mechanical way. \"The prisoner will be put before the magistrates in the course of the week,\" he said; \"in the mean time, Mr. Jefferson Hope, have you anything that you wish to say? I must warn you that your words will be taken down, and may be used against you.\" \"I've got a good deal to say,\" our prisoner said slowly. \"I want to tell you gentlemen all about it.\" \"Hadn't you better reserve that for your trial?\" asked the Inspector. \"I may never be tried,\" he answered. \"You needn't look startled. It isn't suicide I am thinking of. Are you a Doctor?\" He turned his fierce dark eyes upon me as he asked this last question. \"Yes; I am,\" I answered. \"Then put your hand here,\" he said, with a smile, motioning with his manacled wrists towards his chest. I did so; and became at once conscious of an extraordinary throbbing and commotion which was going on inside. The walls of his chest seemed to thrill and quiver as a frail building would do inside when some powerful engine was at work. In the silence of the room I could hear a dull humming and buzzing noise which proceeded from the same source. \"Why,\" I cried, \"you have an aortic aneurism!\" \"That's what they call it,\" he said, placidly. \"I went to a Doctor last week about it, and he told me that it is bound to burst before many days passed. It has been getting worse for years. I got it from over-exposure and under-feeding among the Salt Lake Mountains. I've done my work now, and I don't care how soon I go, but I should like to leave some account of the business behind me. I don't want to be remembered as a common cut-throat.\" The Inspector and the two detectives had a hurried discussion as to the advisability of allowing him to tell his story. \"Do you consider, Doctor, that there is immediate danger?\" the former asked. \"Most certainly there is,\" I answered. \"In that case it is clearly our duty, in the interests of justice, to take his statement,\" said the Inspector. \"You are at liberty, sir, to give your account, which I again warn you will be taken down.\" \"I'll sit down, with your leave,\" the prisoner said, suiting the action to the word. \"This aneurism of mine makes me easily tired, and the tussle we had half an hour ago has not mended matters. I'm on the brink of the grave, and I am not likely to lie to you. Every word I say is the absolute truth, and how you use it is a matter of no consequence to me.\" With these words, Jefferson Hope leaned back in his chair and began the following remarkable statement. He spoke in a calm and methodical manner, as though the events which he narrated were commonplace enough. I can vouch for the accuracy of the subjoined account, for I have had access to Lestrade's note-book, in which the prisoner's words were taken down exactly as they were uttered. \"It don't much matter to you why I hated these men,\" he said; \"it's enough that they were guilty of the death of two human beings--a father and a daughter--and that they had, therefore, forfeited their own lives. After the lapse of time that has passed since their crime, it was impossible for me to secure a conviction against them in any court. I knew of their guilt though, and I determined that I should be judge, jury, and executioner all rolled into one. You'd have done the same, if you have any manhood in you, if you had been in my place. \"That girl that I spoke of was to have married me twenty years ago. She was forced into marrying that same Drebber, and broke her heart over it. I took the marriage ring from her dead finger, and I vowed that his dying eyes should rest upon that very ring, and that his last thoughts should be of the crime for which he was punished. I have carried it about with me, and have followed him and his accomplice over two continents until I caught them. They thought to tire me out, but they could not do it. If I die to-morrow, as is likely enough, I die knowing that my work in this world is done, and well done. They have perished, and by my hand. There is nothing left for me to hope for, or to desire. \"They were rich and I was poor, so that it was no easy matter for me to follow them. When I got to London my pocket was about empty, and I found that I must turn my hand to something for my living. Driving and riding are as natural to me as walking, so I applied at a cabowner's office, and soon got employment. I was to bring a certain sum a week to the owner, and whatever was over that I might keep for myself. There was seldom much over, but I managed to scrape along somehow. The hardest job was to learn my way about, for I reckon that of all the mazes that ever were contrived, this city is the most confusing. I had a map beside me though, and when once I had spotted the principal hotels and stations, I got on pretty well. \"It was some time before I found out where my two gentlemen were living; but I inquired and inquired until at last I dropped across them. They were at a boarding-house at Camberwell, over on the other side of the river. When once I found them out I knew that I had them at my mercy. I had grown my beard, and there was no chance of their recognizing me. I would dog them and follow them until I saw my opportunity. I was determined that they should not escape me again. \"They were very near doing it for all that. Go where they would about London, I was always at their heels. Sometimes I followed them on my cab, and sometimes on foot, but the former was the best, for then they could not get away from me. It was only early in the morning or late at night that I could earn anything, so that I began to get behind hand with my employer. I did not mind that, however, as long as I could lay my hand upon the men I wanted. \"They were very cunning, though. They must have thought that there was some chance of their being followed, for they would never go out alone, and never after nightfall. During two weeks I drove behind them every day, and never once saw them separate. Drebber himself was drunk half the time, but Stangerson was not to be caught napping. I watched them late and early, but never saw the ghost of a chance; but I was not discouraged, for something told me that the hour had almost come. My only fear was that this thing in my chest might burst a little too soon and leave my work undone. \"At last, one evening I was driving up and down Torquay Terrace, as the street was called in which they boarded, when I saw a cab drive up to their door. Presently some luggage was brought out, and after a time Drebber and Stangerson followed it, and drove off. I whipped up my horse and kept within sight of them, feeling very ill at ease, for I feared that they were going to shift their quarters. At Euston Station they got out, and I left a boy to hold my horse, and followed them on to the platform. I heard them ask for the Liverpool train, and the guard answer that one had just gone and there would not be another for some hours. Stangerson seemed to be put out at that, but Drebber was rather pleased than otherwise. I got so close to them in the bustle that I could hear every word that passed between them. Drebber said that he had a little business of his own to do, and that if the other would wait for him he would soon rejoin him. His companion remonstrated with him, and reminded him that they had resolved to stick together. Drebber answered that the matter was a delicate one, and that he must go alone. I could not catch what Stangerson said to that, but the other burst out swearing, and reminded him that he was nothing more than his paid servant, and that he must not presume to dictate to him. On that the Secretary gave it up as a bad job, and simply bargained with him that if he missed the last train he should rejoin him at Halliday's Private Hotel; to which Drebber answered that he would be back on the platform before eleven, and made his way out of the station. \"The moment for which I had waited so long had at last come. I had my enemies within my power. Together they could protect each other, but singly they were at my mercy. I did not act, however, with undue precipitation. My plans were already formed. There is no satisfaction in vengeance unless the offender has time to realize who it is that strikes him, and why retribution has come upon him. I had my plans arranged by which I should have the opportunity of making the man who had wronged me understand that his old sin had found him out. It chanced that some days before a gentleman who had been engaged in looking over some houses in the Brixton Road had dropped the key of one of them in my carriage. It was claimed that same evening, and returned; but in the interval I had taken a moulding of it, and had a duplicate constructed. By means of this I had access to at least one spot in this great city where I could rely upon being free from interruption. How to get Drebber to that house was the difficult problem which I had now to solve. \"He walked down the road and went into one or two liquor shops, staying for nearly half-an-hour in the last of them. When he came out he staggered in his walk, and was evidently pretty well on. There was a hansom just in front of me, and he hailed it. I followed it so close that the nose of my horse was within a yard of his driver the whole way. We rattled across Waterloo Bridge and through miles of streets, until, to my astonishment, we found ourselves back in the Terrace in which he had boarded. I could not imagine what his intention was in returning there; but I went on and pulled up my cab a hundred yards or so from the house. He entered it, and his hansom drove away. Give me a glass of water, if you please. My mouth gets dry with the talking.\" I handed him the glass, and he drank it down. \"That's better,\" he said. \"Well, I waited for a quarter of an hour, or more, when suddenly there came a noise like people struggling inside the house. Next moment the door was flung open and two men appeared, one of whom was Drebber, and the other was a young chap whom I had never seen before. This fellow had Drebber by the collar, and when they came to the head of the steps he gave him a shove and a kick which sent him half across the road. 'You hound,' he cried, shaking his stick at him; 'I'll teach you to insult an honest girl!' He was so hot that I think he would have thrashed Drebber with his cudgel, only that the cur staggered away down the road as fast as his legs would carry him. He ran as far as the corner, and then, seeing my cab, he hailed me and jumped in. 'Drive me to Halliday's Private Hotel,' said he. \"When I had him fairly inside my cab, my heart jumped so with joy that I feared lest at this last moment my aneurism might go wrong. I drove along slowly, weighing in my own mind what it was best to do. I might take him right out into the country, and there in some deserted lane have my last interview with him. I had almost decided upon this, when he solved the problem for me. The craze for drink had seized him again, and he ordered me to pull up outside a gin palace. He went in, leaving word that I should wait for him. There he remained until closing time, and when he came out he was so far gone that I knew the game was in my own hands. \"Don't imagine that I intended to kill him in cold blood. It would only have been rigid justice if I had done so, but I could not bring myself to do it. I had long determined that he should have a show for his life if he chose to take advantage of it. Among the many billets which I have filled in America during my wandering life, I was once janitor and sweeper out of the laboratory at York College. One day the professor was lecturing on poisons, and he showed his students some alkaloid, as he called it, which he had extracted from some South American arrow poison, and which was so powerful that the least grain meant instant death. I spotted the bottle in which this preparation was kept, and when they were all gone, I helped myself to a little of it. I was a fairly good dispenser, so I worked this alkaloid into small, soluble pills, and each pill I put in a box with a similar pill made without the poison. I determined at the time that when I had my chance, my gentlemen should each have a draw out of one of these boxes, while I ate the pill that remained. It would be quite as deadly, and a good deal less noisy than firing across a handkerchief. From that day I had always my pill boxes about with me, and the time had now come when I was to use them. \"It was nearer one than twelve, and a wild, bleak night, blowing hard and raining in torrents. Dismal as it was outside, I was glad within--so glad that I could have shouted out from pure exultation. If any of you gentlemen have ever pined for a thing, and longed for it during twenty long years, and then suddenly found it within your reach, you would understand my feelings. I lit a cigar, and puffed at it to steady my nerves, but my hands were trembling, and my temples throbbing with excitement. As I drove, I could see old John Ferrier and sweet Lucy looking at me out of the darkness and smiling at me, just as plain as I see you all in this room. All the way they were ahead of me, one on each side of the horse until I pulled up at the house in the Brixton Road. \"There was not a soul to be seen, nor a sound to be heard, except the dripping of the rain. When I looked in at the window, I found Drebber all huddled together in a drunken sleep. I shook him by the arm, 'It's time to get out,' I said. \"'All right, cabby,' said he. \"I suppose he thought we had come to the hotel that he had mentioned, for he got out without another word, and followed me down the garden. I had to walk beside him to keep him steady, for he was still a little top-heavy. When we came to the door, I opened it, and led him into the front room. I give you my word that all the way, the father and the daughter were walking in front of us. \"'It's infernally dark,' said he, stamping about. \"'We'll soon have a light,' I said, striking a match and putting it to a wax candle which I had brought with me. 'Now, Enoch Drebber,' I continued, turning to him, and holding the light to my own face, 'who am I?' \"He gazed at me with bleared, drunken eyes for a moment, and then I saw a horror spring up in them, and convulse his whole features, which showed me that he knew me. He staggered back with a livid face, and I saw the perspiration break out upon his brow, while his teeth chattered in his head. At the sight, I leaned my back against the door and laughed loud and long. I had always known that vengeance would be sweet, but I had never hoped for the contentment of soul which now possessed me. \"'You dog!' I said; 'I have hunted you from Salt Lake City to St. Petersburg, and you have always escaped me. Now, at last your wanderings have come to an end, for either you or I shall never see to-morrow's sun rise.' He shrunk still further away as I spoke, and I could see on his face that he thought I was mad. So I was for the time. The pulses in my temples beat like sledge-hammers, and I believe I would have had a fit of some sort if the blood had not gushed from my nose and relieved me. \"'What do you think of Lucy Ferrier now?' I cried, locking the door, and shaking the key in his face. 'Punishment has been slow in coming, but it has overtaken you at last.' I saw his coward lips tremble as I spoke. He would have begged for his life, but he knew well that it was useless. \"'Would you murder me?' he stammered. \"'There is no murder,' I answered. 'Who talks of murdering a mad dog? What mercy had you upon my poor darling, when you dragged her from her slaughtered father, and bore her away to your accursed and shameless harem.' \"'It was not I who killed her father,' he cried. \"'But it was you who broke her innocent heart,' I shrieked, thrusting the box before him. 'Let the high God judge between us. Choose and eat. There is death in one and life in the other. I shall take what you leave. Let us see if there is justice upon the earth, or if we are ruled by chance.' \"He cowered away with wild cries and prayers for mercy, but I drew my knife and held it to his throat until he had obeyed me. Then I swallowed the other, and we stood facing one another in silence for a minute or more, waiting to see which was to live and which was to die. Shall I ever forget the look which came over his face when the first warning pangs told him that the poison was in his system? I laughed as I saw it, and held Lucy's marriage ring in front of his eyes. It was but for a moment, for the action of the alkaloid is rapid. A spasm of pain contorted his features; he threw his hands out in front of him, staggered, and then, with a hoarse cry, fell heavily upon the floor. I turned him over with my foot, and placed my hand upon his heart. There was no movement. He was dead! \"The blood had been streaming from my nose, but I had taken no notice of it. I don't know what it was that put it into my head to write upon the wall with it. Perhaps it was some mischievous idea of setting the police upon a wrong track, for I felt light-hearted and cheerful. I remembered a German being found in New York with RACHE written up above him, and it was argued at the time in the newspapers that the secret societies must have done it. I guessed that what puzzled the New Yorkers would puzzle the Londoners, so I dipped my finger in my own blood and printed it on a convenient place on the wall. Then I walked down to my cab and found that there was nobody about, and that the night was still very wild. I had driven some distance when I put my hand into the pocket in which I usually kept Lucy's ring, and found that it was not there. I was thunderstruck at this, for it was the only memento that I had of her. Thinking that I might have dropped it when I stooped over Drebber's body, I drove back, and leaving my cab in a side street, I went boldly up to the house--for I was ready to dare anything rather than lose the ring. When I arrived there, I walked right into the arms of a police-officer who was coming out, and only managed to disarm his suspicions by pretending to be hopelessly drunk. \"That was how Enoch Drebber came to his end. All I had to do then was to do as much for Stangerson, and so pay off John Ferrier's debt. I knew that he was staying at Halliday's Private Hotel, and I hung about all day, but he never came out. I fancy that he suspected something when Drebber failed to put in an appearance. He was cunning, was Stangerson, and always on his guard. If he thought he could keep me off by staying indoors he was very much mistaken. I soon found out which was the window of his bedroom, and early next morning I took advantage of some ladders which were lying in the lane behind the hotel, and so made my way into his room in the grey of the dawn. I woke him up and told him that the hour had come when he was to answer for the life he had taken so long before. I described Drebber's death to him, and I gave him the same choice of the poisoned pills. Instead of grasping at the chance of safety which that offered him, he sprang from his bed and flew at my throat. In self-defence I stabbed him to the heart. It would have been the same in any case, for Providence would never have allowed his guilty hand to pick out anything but the poison. \"I have little more to say, and it's as well, for I am about done up. I went on cabbing it for a day or so, intending to keep at it until I could save enough to take me back to America. I was standing in the yard when a ragged youngster asked if there was a cabby there called Jefferson Hope, and said that his cab was wanted by a gentleman at 221b, Baker Street. I went round, suspecting no harm, and the next thing I knew, this young man here had the bracelets on my wrists, and as neatly snackled as ever I saw in my life. That's the whole of my story, gentlemen. You may consider me to be a murderer; but I hold that I am just as much an officer of justice as you are.\" So thrilling had the man's narrative been, and his manner was so impressive that we had sat silent and absorbed. Even the professional detectives, blase as they were in every detail of crime, appeared to be keenly interested in the man's story. When he finished we sat for some minutes in a stillness which was only broken by the scratching of Lestrade's pencil as he gave the finishing touches to his shorthand account. \"There is only one point on which I should like a little more information,\" Sherlock Holmes said at last. \"Who was your accomplice who came for the ring which I advertised?\" The prisoner winked at my friend jocosely. \"I can tell my own secrets,\" he said, \"but I don't get other people into trouble. I saw your advertisement, and I thought it might be a plant, or it might be the ring which I wanted. My friend volunteered to go and see. I think you'll own he did it smartly.\" \"Not a doubt of that,\" said Holmes heartily. \"Now, gentlemen,\" the Inspector remarked gravely, \"the forms of the law must be complied with. On Thursday the prisoner will be brought before the magistrates, and your attendance will be required. Until then I will be responsible for him.\" He rang the bell as he spoke, and Jefferson Hope was led off by a couple of warders, while my friend and I made our way out of the Station and took a cab back to Baker Street. CHAPTER VII The Conclusion We had all been warned to appear before the magistrates upon the Thursday; but when the Thursday came there was no occasion for our testimony. A higher Judge had taken the matter in hand, and Jefferson Hope had been summoned before a tribunal where strict justice would be meted out to him. On the very night after his capture the aneurism burst, and he was found in the morning stretched upon the floor of the cell, with a placid smile upon his face, as though he had been able in his dying moments to look back upon a useful life, and on work well done. \"Gregson and Lestrade will be wild about his death,\" Holmes remarked, as we chatted it over next evening. \"Where will their grand advertisement be now?\" \"I don't see that they had very much to do with his capture,\" I answered. \"What you do in this world is a matter of no consequence,\" returned my companion, bitterly. \"The question is, what can you make people believe that you have done. Never mind,\" he continued, more brightly, after a pause. \"I would not have missed the investigation for anything. There has been no better case within my recollection. Simple as it was, there were several most instructive points about it.\" \"Simple!\" I ejaculated. \"Well, really, it can hardly be described as otherwise,\" said Sherlock Holmes, smiling at my surprise. \"The proof of its intrinsic simplicity is, that without any help save a few very ordinary deductions I was able to lay my hand upon the criminal within three days.\" \"That is true,\" said I. \"I have already explained to you that what is out of the common is usually a guide rather than a hindrance. In solving a problem of this sort, the grand thing is to be able to reason backwards. That is a very useful accomplishment, and a very easy one, but people do not practise it much. In the every-day affairs of life it is more useful to reason forwards, and so the other comes to be neglected. There are fifty who can reason synthetically for one who can reason analytically.\" \"I confess,\" said I, \"that I do not quite follow you.\" \"I hardly expected that you would. Let me see if I can make it clearer. Most people, if you describe a train of events to them, will tell you what the result would be. They can put those events together in their minds, and argue from them that something will come to pass. There are few people, however, who, if you told them a result, would be able to evolve from their own inner consciousness what the steps were which led up to that result. This power is what I mean when I talk of reasoning backwards, or analytically.\" \"I understand,\" said I. \"Now this was a case in which you were given the result and had to find everything else for yourself. Now let me endeavour to show you the different steps in my reasoning. To begin at the beginning. I approached the house, as you know, on foot, and with my mind entirely free from all impressions. I naturally began by examining the roadway, and there, as I have already explained to you, I saw clearly the marks of a cab, which, I ascertained by inquiry, must have been there during the night. I satisfied myself that it was a cab and not a private carriage by the narrow gauge of the wheels. The ordinary London growler is considerably less wide than a gentleman's brougham. \"This was the first point gained. I then walked slowly down the garden path, which happened to be composed of a clay soil, peculiarly suitable for taking impressions. No doubt it appeared to you to be a mere trampled line of slush, but to my trained eyes every mark upon its surface had a meaning. There is no branch of detective science which is so important and so much neglected as the art of tracing footsteps. Happily, I have always laid great stress upon it, and much practice has made it second nature to me. I saw the heavy footmarks of the constables, but I saw also the track of the two men who had first passed through the garden. It was easy to tell that they had been before the others, because in places their marks had been entirely obliterated by the others coming upon the top of them. In this way my second link was formed, which told me that the nocturnal visitors were two in number, one remarkable for his height (as I calculated from the length of his stride), and the other fashionably dressed, to judge from the small and elegant impression left by his boots. \"On entering the house this last inference was confirmed. My well-booted man lay before me. The tall one, then, had done the murder, if murder there was. There was no wound upon the dead man's person, but the agitated expression upon his face assured me that he had foreseen his fate before it came upon him. Men who die from heart disease, or any sudden natural cause, never by any chance exhibit agitation upon their features. Having sniffed the dead man's lips I detected a slightly sour smell, and I came to the conclusion that he had had poison forced upon him. Again, I argued that it had been forced upon him from the hatred and fear expressed upon his face. By the method of exclusion, I had arrived at this result, for no other hypothesis would meet the facts. Do not imagine that it was a very unheard of idea. The forcible administration of poison is by no means a new thing in criminal annals. The cases of Dolsky in Odessa, and of Leturier in Montpellier, will occur at once to any toxicologist. \"And now came the great question as to the reason why. Robbery had not been the object of the murder, for nothing was taken. Was it politics, then, or was it a woman? That was the question which confronted me. I was inclined from the first to the latter supposition. Political assassins are only too glad to do their work and to fly. This murder had, on the contrary, been done most deliberately, and the perpetrator had left his tracks all over the room, showing that he had been there all the time. It must have been a private wrong, and not a political one, which called for such a methodical revenge. When the inscription was discovered upon the wall I was more inclined than ever to my opinion. The thing was too evidently a blind. When the ring was found, however, it settled the question. Clearly the murderer had used it to remind his victim of some dead or absent woman. It was at this point that I asked Gregson whether he had enquired in his telegram to Cleveland as to any particular point in Mr. Drebber's former career. He answered, you remember, in the negative. \"I then proceeded to make a careful examination of the room, which confirmed me in my opinion as to the murderer's height, and furnished me with the additional details as to the Trichinopoly cigar and the length of his nails. I had already come to the conclusion, since there were no signs of a struggle, that the blood which covered the floor had burst from the murderer's nose in his excitement. I could perceive that the track of blood coincided with the track of his feet. It is seldom that any man, unless he is very full-blooded, breaks out in this way through emotion, so I hazarded the opinion that the criminal was probably a robust and ruddy-faced man. Events proved that I had judged correctly. \"Having left the house, I proceeded to do what Gregson had neglected. I telegraphed to the head of the police at Cleveland, limiting my enquiry to the circumstances connected with the marriage of Enoch Drebber. The answer was conclusive. It told me that Drebber had already applied for the protection of the law against an old rival in love, named Jefferson Hope, and that this same Hope was at present in Europe. I knew now that I held the clue to the mystery in my hand, and all that remained was to secure the murderer. \"I had already determined in my own mind that the man who had walked into the house with Drebber, was none other than the man who had driven the cab. The marks in the road showed me that the horse had wandered on in a way which would have been impossible had there been anyone in charge of it. Where, then, could the driver be, unless he were inside the house? Again, it is absurd to suppose that any sane man would carry out a deliberate crime under the very eyes, as it were, of a third person, who was sure to betray him. Lastly, supposing one man wished to dog another through London, what better means could he adopt than to turn cabdriver. All these considerations led me to the irresistible conclusion that Jefferson Hope was to be found among the jarveys of the Metropolis. \"If he had been one there was no reason to believe that he had ceased to be. On the contrary, from his point of view, any sudden chance would be likely to draw attention to himself. He would, probably, for a time at least, continue to perform his duties. There was no reason to suppose that he was going under an assumed name. Why should he change his name in a country where no one knew his original one? I therefore organized my Street Arab detective corps, and sent them systematically to every cab proprietor in London until they ferreted out the man that I wanted. How well they succeeded, and how quickly I took advantage of it, are still fresh in your recollection. The murder of Stangerson was an incident which was entirely unexpected, but which could hardly in any case have been prevented. Through it, as you know, I came into possession of the pills, the existence of which I had already surmised. You see the whole thing is a chain of logical sequences without a break or flaw.\" \"It is wonderful!\" I cried. \"Your merits should be publicly recognized. You should publish an account of the case. If you won't, I will for you.\" \"You may do what you like, Doctor,\" he answered. \"See here!\" he continued, handing a paper over to me, \"look at this!\" It was the Echo for the day, and the paragraph to which he pointed was devoted to the case in question. \"The public,\" it said, \"have lost a sensational treat through the sudden death of the man Hope, who was suspected of the murder of Mr. Enoch Drebber and of Mr. Joseph Stangerson. The details of the case will probably be never known now, though we are informed upon good authority that the crime was the result of an old standing and romantic feud, in which love and Mormonism bore a part. It seems that both the victims belonged, in their younger days, to the Latter Day Saints, and Hope, the deceased prisoner, hails also from Salt Lake City. If the case has had no other effect, it, at least, brings out in the most striking manner the efficiency of our detective police force, and will serve as a lesson to all foreigners that they will do wisely to settle their feuds at home, and not to carry them on to British soil. It is an open secret that the credit of this smart capture belongs entirely to the well-known Scotland Yard officials, Messrs. Lestrade and Gregson. The man was apprehended, it appears, in the rooms of a certain Mr. Sherlock Holmes, who has himself, as an amateur, shown some talent in the detective line, and who, with such instructors, may hope in time to attain to some degree of their skill. It is expected that a testimonial of some sort will be presented to the two officers as a fitting recognition of their services.\" \"Didn't I tell you so when we started?\" cried Sherlock Holmes with a laugh. \"That's the result of all our Study in Scarlet: to get them a testimonial!\" \"Never mind,\" I answered, \"I have all the facts in my journal, and the public shall know them. In the meantime you must make yourself contented by the consciousness of success, like the Roman miser-- \"'Populus me sibilat, at mihi plaudo Ipse domi simul ac nummos contemplar in arca.'\" ---------- This text is provided to you \"as-is\" without any warranty. No warranties of any kind, expressed or implied, are made to you as to the text or any medium it may be on, including but not limited to warranties of merchantablity or fitness for a particular purpose. This text was formatted from various free ASCII and HTML variants. See http://sherlock-holm.es for an electronic form of this text and additional information about it. This text comes from the collection's version 3.1." ] }, "execution_count": 43, "metadata": {}, "output_type": "execute_result" } ], "source": [ "doc" ] }, { "cell_type": "markdown", "metadata": {}, "source": [ "## Topic modeling\n", "\n", "Another basic text analysis is _topic modeling_. Imagine you have a bunch of documents and you want to know what are the main topics that are discussed in these documents. Topic modeling methods aim to extract these \"topics\" automatically based on the words that appear in the documents. In topic modeling, each topic can be thought of as a distribution over words. For instance, a topic can be \"politics\" and it can be represented as a probability distribution over words like \"election\", \"vote\", \"president\", etc.\n", "\n", "Let's do a simple topic modeling with `bertopic` package. Although there is a long history of topic modeling, with many methods such as LDA, just like many other NLP tasks, topic modeling is also being replaced by LLM-based methods like BERTopic, so we'd like to try that as well. You should already have `scikit-learn` installed. Let's install `bertopic`. \n", "\n", "```\n", "pip install bertopic\n", "```\n", "\n", "Let's first get the dataset included in scikit-learn." ] }, { "cell_type": "code", "execution_count": 44, "metadata": {}, "outputs": [], "source": [ "from sklearn.datasets import fetch_20newsgroups\n", "\n", "newsgroup_data = fetch_20newsgroups(subset='all')" ] }, { "cell_type": "markdown", "metadata": {}, "source": [ "We can inspect what's inside. Feel free to play with it. " ] }, { "cell_type": "code", "execution_count": 45, "metadata": {}, "outputs": [ { "data": { "text/plain": [ "dict_keys(['data', 'filenames', 'target_names', 'target', 'DESCR'])" ] }, "execution_count": 45, "metadata": {}, "output_type": "execute_result" } ], "source": [ "newsgroup_data.keys()" ] }, { "cell_type": "code", "execution_count": 46, "metadata": {}, "outputs": [ { "data": { "text/plain": [ "18846" ] }, "execution_count": 46, "metadata": {}, "output_type": "execute_result" } ], "source": [ "len(newsgroup_data.filenames)" ] }, { "cell_type": "code", "execution_count": 47, "metadata": {}, "outputs": [ { "name": "stdout", "output_type": "stream", "text": [ ".. _20newsgroups_dataset:\n", "\n", "The 20 newsgroups text dataset\n", "------------------------------\n", "\n", "The 20 newsgroups dataset comprises around 18000 newsgroups posts on\n", "20 topics split in two subsets: one for training (or development)\n", "and the other one for testing (or for performance evaluation). The split\n", "between the train and test set is based upon a messages posted before\n", "and after a specific date.\n", "\n", "This module contains two loaders. The first one,\n", ":func:`sklearn.datasets.fetch_20newsgroups`,\n", "returns a list of the raw texts that can be fed to text feature\n", "extractors such as :class:`~sklearn.feature_extraction.text.CountVectorizer`\n", "with custom parameters so as to extract feature vectors.\n", "The second one, :func:`sklearn.datasets.fetch_20newsgroups_vectorized`,\n", "returns ready-to-use features, i.e., it is not necessary to use a feature\n", "extractor.\n", "\n", "**Data Set Characteristics:**\n", "\n", "================= ==========\n", "Classes 20\n", "Samples total 18846\n", "Dimensionality 1\n", "Features text\n", "================= ==========\n", "\n", ".. dropdown:: Usage\n", "\n", " The :func:`sklearn.datasets.fetch_20newsgroups` function is a data\n", " fetching / caching functions that downloads the data archive from\n", " the original `20 newsgroups website `__,\n", " extracts the archive contents\n", " in the ``~/scikit_learn_data/20news_home`` folder and calls the\n", " :func:`sklearn.datasets.load_files` on either the training or\n", " testing set folder, or both of them::\n", "\n", " >>> from sklearn.datasets import fetch_20newsgroups\n", " >>> newsgroups_train = fetch_20newsgroups(subset='train')\n", "\n", " >>> from pprint import pprint\n", " >>> pprint(list(newsgroups_train.target_names))\n", " ['alt.atheism',\n", " 'comp.graphics',\n", " 'comp.os.ms-windows.misc',\n", " 'comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware',\n", " 'comp.sys.mac.hardware',\n", " 'comp.windows.x',\n", " 'misc.forsale',\n", " 'rec.autos',\n", " 'rec.motorcycles',\n", " 'rec.sport.baseball',\n", " 'rec.sport.hockey',\n", " 'sci.crypt',\n", " 'sci.electronics',\n", " 'sci.med',\n", " 'sci.space',\n", " 'soc.religion.christian',\n", " 'talk.politics.guns',\n", " 'talk.politics.mideast',\n", " 'talk.politics.misc',\n", " 'talk.religion.misc']\n", "\n", " The real data lies in the ``filenames`` and ``target`` attributes. The target\n", " attribute is the integer index of the category::\n", "\n", " >>> newsgroups_train.filenames.shape\n", " (11314,)\n", " >>> newsgroups_train.target.shape\n", " (11314,)\n", " >>> newsgroups_train.target[:10]\n", " array([ 7, 4, 4, 1, 14, 16, 13, 3, 2, 4])\n", "\n", " It is possible to load only a sub-selection of the categories by passing the\n", " list of the categories to load to the\n", " :func:`sklearn.datasets.fetch_20newsgroups` function::\n", "\n", " >>> cats = ['alt.atheism', 'sci.space']\n", " >>> newsgroups_train = fetch_20newsgroups(subset='train', categories=cats)\n", "\n", " >>> list(newsgroups_train.target_names)\n", " ['alt.atheism', 'sci.space']\n", " >>> newsgroups_train.filenames.shape\n", " (1073,)\n", " >>> newsgroups_train.target.shape\n", " (1073,)\n", " >>> newsgroups_train.target[:10]\n", " array([0, 1, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0])\n", "\n", ".. dropdown:: Converting text to vectors\n", "\n", " In order to feed predictive or clustering models with the text data,\n", " one first need to turn the text into vectors of numerical values suitable\n", " for statistical analysis. This can be achieved with the utilities of the\n", " ``sklearn.feature_extraction.text`` as demonstrated in the following\n", " example that extract `TF-IDF `__ vectors\n", " of unigram tokens from a subset of 20news::\n", "\n", " >>> from sklearn.feature_extraction.text import TfidfVectorizer\n", " >>> categories = ['alt.atheism', 'talk.religion.misc',\n", " ... 'comp.graphics', 'sci.space']\n", " >>> newsgroups_train = fetch_20newsgroups(subset='train',\n", " ... categories=categories)\n", " >>> vectorizer = TfidfVectorizer()\n", " >>> vectors = vectorizer.fit_transform(newsgroups_train.data)\n", " >>> vectors.shape\n", " (2034, 34118)\n", "\n", " The extracted TF-IDF vectors are very sparse, with an average of 159 non-zero\n", " components by sample in a more than 30000-dimensional space\n", " (less than .5% non-zero features)::\n", "\n", " >>> vectors.nnz / float(vectors.shape[0])\n", " 159.01327...\n", "\n", " :func:`sklearn.datasets.fetch_20newsgroups_vectorized` is a function which\n", " returns ready-to-use token counts features instead of file names.\n", "\n", ".. dropdown:: Filtering text for more realistic training\n", "\n", " It is easy for a classifier to overfit on particular things that appear in the\n", " 20 Newsgroups data, such as newsgroup headers. Many classifiers achieve very\n", " high F-scores, but their results would not generalize to other documents that\n", " aren't from this window of time.\n", "\n", " For example, let's look at the results of a multinomial Naive Bayes classifier,\n", " which is fast to train and achieves a decent F-score::\n", "\n", " >>> from sklearn.naive_bayes import MultinomialNB\n", " >>> from sklearn import metrics\n", " >>> newsgroups_test = fetch_20newsgroups(subset='test',\n", " ... categories=categories)\n", " >>> vectors_test = vectorizer.transform(newsgroups_test.data)\n", " >>> clf = MultinomialNB(alpha=.01)\n", " >>> clf.fit(vectors, newsgroups_train.target)\n", " MultinomialNB(alpha=0.01, class_prior=None, fit_prior=True)\n", "\n", " >>> pred = clf.predict(vectors_test)\n", " >>> metrics.f1_score(newsgroups_test.target, pred, average='macro')\n", " 0.88213...\n", "\n", " (The example :ref:`sphx_glr_auto_examples_text_plot_document_classification_20newsgroups.py` shuffles\n", " the training and test data, instead of segmenting by time, and in that case\n", " multinomial Naive Bayes gets a much higher F-score of 0.88. Are you suspicious\n", " yet of what's going on inside this classifier?)\n", "\n", " Let's take a look at what the most informative features are:\n", "\n", " >>> import numpy as np\n", " >>> def show_top10(classifier, vectorizer, categories):\n", " ... feature_names = vectorizer.get_feature_names_out()\n", " ... for i, category in enumerate(categories):\n", " ... top10 = np.argsort(classifier.coef_[i])[-10:]\n", " ... print(\"%s: %s\" % (category, \" \".join(feature_names[top10])))\n", " ...\n", " >>> show_top10(clf, vectorizer, newsgroups_train.target_names)\n", " alt.atheism: edu it and in you that is of to the\n", " comp.graphics: edu in graphics it is for and of to the\n", " sci.space: edu it that is in and space to of the\n", " talk.religion.misc: not it you in is that and to of the\n", "\n", "\n", " You can now see many things that these features have overfit to:\n", "\n", " - Almost every group is distinguished by whether headers such as\n", " ``NNTP-Posting-Host:`` and ``Distribution:`` appear more or less often.\n", " - Another significant feature involves whether the sender is affiliated with\n", " a university, as indicated either by their headers or their signature.\n", " - The word \"article\" is a significant feature, based on how often people quote\n", " previous posts like this: \"In article [article ID], [name] <[e-mail address]>\n", " wrote:\"\n", " - Other features match the names and e-mail addresses of particular people who\n", " were posting at the time.\n", "\n", " With such an abundance of clues that distinguish newsgroups, the classifiers\n", " barely have to identify topics from text at all, and they all perform at the\n", " same high level.\n", "\n", " For this reason, the functions that load 20 Newsgroups data provide a\n", " parameter called **remove**, telling it what kinds of information to strip out\n", " of each file. **remove** should be a tuple containing any subset of\n", " ``('headers', 'footers', 'quotes')``, telling it to remove headers, signature\n", " blocks, and quotation blocks respectively.\n", "\n", " >>> newsgroups_test = fetch_20newsgroups(subset='test',\n", " ... remove=('headers', 'footers', 'quotes'),\n", " ... categories=categories)\n", " >>> vectors_test = vectorizer.transform(newsgroups_test.data)\n", " >>> pred = clf.predict(vectors_test)\n", " >>> metrics.f1_score(pred, newsgroups_test.target, average='macro')\n", " 0.77310...\n", "\n", " This classifier lost over a lot of its F-score, just because we removed\n", " metadata that has little to do with topic classification.\n", " It loses even more if we also strip this metadata from the training data:\n", "\n", " >>> newsgroups_train = fetch_20newsgroups(subset='train',\n", " ... remove=('headers', 'footers', 'quotes'),\n", " ... categories=categories)\n", " >>> vectors = vectorizer.fit_transform(newsgroups_train.data)\n", " >>> clf = MultinomialNB(alpha=.01)\n", " >>> clf.fit(vectors, newsgroups_train.target)\n", " MultinomialNB(alpha=0.01, class_prior=None, fit_prior=True)\n", "\n", " >>> vectors_test = vectorizer.transform(newsgroups_test.data)\n", " >>> pred = clf.predict(vectors_test)\n", " >>> metrics.f1_score(newsgroups_test.target, pred, average='macro')\n", " 0.76995...\n", "\n", " Some other classifiers cope better with this harder version of the task. Try the\n", " :ref:`sphx_glr_auto_examples_model_selection_plot_grid_search_text_feature_extraction.py`\n", " example with and without the `remove` option to compare the results.\n", "\n", ".. rubric:: Data Considerations\n", "\n", "The Cleveland Indians is a major league baseball team based in Cleveland,\n", "Ohio, USA. In December 2020, it was reported that \"After several months of\n", "discussion sparked by the death of George Floyd and a national reckoning over\n", "race and colonialism, the Cleveland Indians have decided to change their\n", "name.\" Team owner Paul Dolan \"did make it clear that the team will not make\n", "its informal nickname -- the Tribe -- its new team name.\" \"It's not going to\n", "be a half-step away from the Indians,\" Dolan said.\"We will not have a Native\n", "American-themed name.\"\n", "\n", "https://www.mlb.com/news/cleveland-indians-team-name-change\n", "\n", ".. rubric:: Recommendation\n", "\n", "- When evaluating text classifiers on the 20 Newsgroups data, you\n", " should strip newsgroup-related metadata. In scikit-learn, you can do this\n", " by setting ``remove=('headers', 'footers', 'quotes')``. The F-score will be\n", " lower because it is more realistic.\n", "- This text dataset contains data which may be inappropriate for certain NLP\n", " applications. An example is listed in the \"Data Considerations\" section\n", " above. The challenge with using current text datasets in NLP for tasks such\n", " as sentence completion, clustering, and other applications is that text\n", " that is culturally biased and inflammatory will propagate biases. This\n", " should be taken into consideration when using the dataset, reviewing the\n", " output, and the bias should be documented.\n", "\n", ".. rubric:: Examples\n", "\n", "* :ref:`sphx_glr_auto_examples_model_selection_plot_grid_search_text_feature_extraction.py`\n", "* :ref:`sphx_glr_auto_examples_text_plot_document_classification_20newsgroups.py`\n", "* :ref:`sphx_glr_auto_examples_text_plot_hashing_vs_dict_vectorizer.py`\n", "* :ref:`sphx_glr_auto_examples_text_plot_document_clustering.py`\n", "\n" ] } ], "source": [ "print(newsgroup_data.DESCR)" ] }, { "cell_type": "markdown", "metadata": {}, "source": [ "You can look into the data as well. " ] }, { "cell_type": "code", "execution_count": 48, "metadata": {}, "outputs": [ { "name": "stdout", "output_type": "stream", "text": [ "From: Mamatha Devineni Ratnam \n", "Subject: Pens fans reactions\n", "Organization: Post Office, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA\n", "Lines: 12\n", "NNTP-Posting-Host: po4.andrew.cmu.edu\n", "\n", "\n", "\n", "I am sure some bashers of Pens fans are pretty confused about the lack\n", "of any kind of posts about the recent Pens massacre of the Devils. Actually,\n", "I am bit puzzled too and a bit relieved. However, I am going to put an end\n", "to non-PIttsburghers' relief with a bit of praise for the Pens. Man, they\n", "are killing those Devils worse than I thought. Jagr just showed you why\n", "he is much better than his regular season stats. He is also a lot\n", "fo fun to watch in the playoffs. Bowman should let JAgr have a lot of\n", "fun in the next couple of games since the Pens are going to beat the pulp out of Jersey anyway. I was very disappointed not to see the Islanders lose the final\n", "regular season game. PENS RULE!!!\n", "\n", "\n" ] } ], "source": [ "print(newsgroup_data.data[0])" ] }, { "cell_type": "markdown", "metadata": {}, "source": [ "You can load a more \"clean\" data like following. " ] }, { "cell_type": "code", "execution_count": 49, "metadata": {}, "outputs": [], "source": [ "docs = fetch_20newsgroups(subset='all', remove=('headers', 'footers', 'quotes'))['data']" ] }, { "cell_type": "code", "execution_count": 50, "metadata": {}, "outputs": [ { "name": "stdout", "output_type": "stream", "text": [ "\n", "\n", "I am sure some bashers of Pens fans are pretty confused about the lack\n", "of any kind of posts about the recent Pens massacre of the Devils. Actually,\n", "I am bit puzzled too and a bit relieved. However, I am going to put an end\n", "to non-PIttsburghers' relief with a bit of praise for the Pens. Man, they\n", "are killing those Devils worse than I thought. Jagr just showed you why\n", "he is much better than his regular season stats. He is also a lot\n", "fo fun to watch in the playoffs. Bowman should let JAgr have a lot of\n", "fun in the next couple of games since the Pens are going to beat the pulp out of Jersey anyway. I was very disappointed not to see the Islanders lose the final\n", "regular season game. PENS RULE!!!\n", "\n", "\n" ] } ], "source": [ "print(docs[0])" ] }, { "cell_type": "markdown", "metadata": {}, "source": [ "BERTopic follows the convention of the scikit-learn API. You can fit the model with `fit_transform` method." ] }, { "cell_type": "code", "execution_count": 52, "metadata": {}, "outputs": [ { "name": "stderr", "output_type": "stream", "text": [ "/Users/yyahn/git/dataviz-solutions/.venv/lib/python3.12/site-packages/hdbscan/plots.py:448: SyntaxWarning: invalid escape sequence '\\l'\n", " axis.set_ylabel('$\\lambda$ value')\n", "/Users/yyahn/git/dataviz-solutions/.venv/lib/python3.12/site-packages/hdbscan/robust_single_linkage_.py:175: SyntaxWarning: invalid escape sequence '\\{'\n", " $max \\{ core_k(a), core_k(b), 1/\\alpha d(a,b) \\}$.\n" ] }, { "data": { "application/vnd.jupyter.widget-view+json": { "model_id": "bf8f07f8d95f488e9a3e73c5c4bf9475", "version_major": 2, "version_minor": 0 }, "text/plain": [ "modules.json: 0%| | 0.00/349 [00:00Topic %{customdata[0]}
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https://maartengr.github.io/BERTopic/getting_started/visualization/visualization.html#visualize-documents) is to use the sentence embedding model to embed the documents into a vector space and visualize all the documents using the UMAP algorithm, along with the topics. \n", "\n", "This time, I'll set the `min_topic_size` to 100 to reduce the number of topics it finds and to make the visualization simpler. " ] }, { "cell_type": "code", "execution_count": 54, "metadata": {}, "outputs": [ { "data": { "application/vnd.plotly.v1+json": { "config": { "plotlyServerURL": "https://plot.ly" }, "data": [ { "hoverinfo": "text", "hovertext": [ "\nThe willingness of the majority of the people to give up their freedom in \nexchange for a sense of safety is hardly limited to the USA, and is an \nendemic problem in any human society of any appreciable size. The structure \nof the US government does try to combat this tendency to some extent, but \nfighting entropy is always a losing battle. Most people would rather have \ncomfort than freedom. The paradox is that you can't really have the former, \nin the long term, unless you have the latter.\n\nOne of the reasons that I probably come across to some people as a weird \ncross between a libertarian and an \"establishment tool\" is that I end up \ntaking an utterly pragmatic view of government. I don't get up in arms when \nthe government fails to protect the interests of the people, because in my \nlifetime it never has--therefore, I have no expectation that it will. \n\nAs a result, I protect my own interests rather than expecting the government \nto be \"fair\". I will use strong cryptography when I think it is needed, \nwhether or not it is legal at the time. Same thing with anything else the \ngovernment would rather not see in private hands--that's their problem. \nWhat's important to me is using the right tool for the job. If it's legal, \nso much the better. If it is not, but does not violate my (very strong) \nsense of personal ethics, I will use it anyway as long I think it is worth \nit. Expecting the government to actually protect the interests of its \ncitizens, except by accident, is utter folly. Even Jefferson, one of the \nmajor architects of the American system of government, figured that in a \ncouple hundred years it would become so corrupt and self-serving that it \nwould be time dismantle it and try again, by revolution if necessary. I \nagree, and while I don't go around trying to spark one, I'll certainly \nparticipate if it happens when I'm around. There is a reason I am such a \nstrong supporter of individual rights while being so cynical about politics. \nI've already written off politics.\n\nAnd yes, this may get me in trouble some day. If so, so be it. I drive \nfaster than 55 MPH, too.\n", "\n\n\nSteve I'm glad to see that you abandoned the preamble thing. What; did\nyou do a word search to find Welfare somewhere else in the constitution?\n\n[my comments and paraphrases in brackets]\n\nArticle I Section 8: [in some ways the guts of the constitution]\n\nThe Congress shall have the Power:\n\n1. To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, \n to pay the Debts [indebtedness as defined in the document]\n and provide for the common Defence [Defence as precisely defined]\n and general Welfare [as defined through the document, mostly in ways\n [that limit the government.]\n of the United States; [but the above taxes shall be uniform through-\n [out the U.S.]\n\n [so far the congress has been given the power to collect taxes uniformly]\n\n [ then ... ]\n\n2. To borrow Money [...]\n3. To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, [interstate and Indian tribes]\n4. To [do uniform Naturalization and Bankruptcies]\n5. To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and [etc.]\n6. To [punish counterfeiters]\n7. To establish Post Offices and post Roads\n8. To [provide patents and copyrights]\n9. To constitute Tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;\n10. To define and punish Piracies and [etc.]\n11. To declare War, [and etc.]\n12. To raise and support Armies,[but for no longer than two years at a stretch]\n13. To provide and maintain a Navy, [notice no time limit on this one]\n14. To [make the rules for the army and navy]\n15. To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws [etc.]\n16. To provide for [training of the army except for some state stuff]\n17. To exercise exclusive Legislation [in D.C]\n18. To make all Laws [necessary to execute the foregoing \"Powers\"].\n\nYour original instinct was right. Looking to other nations for precedents\nthat support an expansive liberal agenda is much easier than looking to the\nslim pickins found in the constitution.\n", "\ns,\n\nThis country is hardly ruined. In fact, it is booming compared to after the\n1980 election.\n\nThis whole \"USA has gone to hell and Reagan/Bush caused it\", is not only lame,\npathetic, and old....... it's wrong.\n\nUnder Reagan/Bush the economy grew by 1.1 trillion dollars. This is more than \nthe entire economy of Germany, a \"kind, gentle\" country, in many peoples' \nbooks. What a joke.", "\n\nWell, despite what my mother told me about accepting dares, here goes.\n \nYou have to be very careful about what you mean by \"question authority\".\nTaken literally, it is nonsense. That which is authoratative is authoratative,\nand to say \"I question to word of this authority\" is ridiculous. If it is \nopen to question, it isn't an authority. On the other hand, it is perfectly\nreasonable to question whether something is an authority. The catch phrase\nhere should be \"authenticate authority.\" Once you have authenticated\nyour authority, you must believe what it says, or you are not treating it as\nan authority. \n\nThe difficulty is that authenticating an authority is not easy. You \ncan perhaps discredit a claim to authority by showing logical inconsistency\nin what it teaches, or by showing that it does not obey its own rules of\ndiscourse. But the fact that I cannot discredit something does not, in\ninself, accredit it. (Nor does the fact that I can convince myself and \nother that I have discredited something necessarilly mean that it is false.)\nI cannot accredit an authority by independantly verifying its teachings, \nbecause if I can independantly verify its teachings, I don't need an \nauthority. I need an authority only when there is information I need which\nI cannot get for myself. Thus, if I am to authenticate an authority, I must\ndo it by some means other than by examining its teachings. \n\nIn practical matters we accept all kinds of authorities because we don't\nhave time to rediscover fundamental knowledge for ourselves. Every scientist\nworing today assumes, on the authority of the scintific community, all sorts\nof knowledge which is necessary to his work but which he has not time to \nverify for himself.\n\nIn spiritual matters, we accept authority because we have no direct source \nofinformation. We select our authorities based on various criteria. (I am\na Catholic, in part, because the historical claims of the RC church seem\nthe strongest.) Without authorities there would be no subject matter for\nbelief, unless we simply made something up for ourselves (as many do).\n\nThe atheist position seems to be that there are no authorities. This is a\nreasonable assertion in itself, but it leads to a practical difficulty.\nIf you reject all authority out of hand, you reject all possibility of\nevery receiving information. Thus the atheist position can never possibly\nchange. It is non-falsifiable and therefore unscintific. \n\nTo demand scintific or rational proof of God's existence, is to deny\nGod's existence, since neither science, nor reason, can, in their very\nnature, prove anything.\n\n\n", "\n\n I wonder if the AMA has an exact listing of \"lives saved\" in \nTennessee, California, and other waiting period states.\n", "\nAs many people have mentioned, there is no reason why insurers could not\noffer a contract without abortion services for a different premium.\nThe problem is that there is no guarantee that this premium would be\nlower for those who chose this type of contract. Although you are\nremoving one service, that may have feedbacks into other types of covered\ncare which results in a net increase in actuarial costs.\n\nFor an illustrative example in the opposite direction, it may be possible\nto ADD services to an insurance contract and REDUCE the premium. If you\nadd preventative services and this reduces acute care use, then the total\npremium may fall.", " \n \nIt was no criticism of Islam for a change, it was a criticism of the\narguments used. Namely, whenever people you identify as Muslims are\nthe victims of the attacks of others, they are used an argument for\nthe bad situation of Muslims. But whenever deeds by Muslim that victimize\nothers are named, they do not count as an argument because what these\npeople did was not done as a true Muslims. No mention is made how Muslims\nare the cause of a bad situation of another party.", "In <1qvh8tINNsg6@citation.ksu.ksu.edu> yohan@citation.ksu.ksu.edu (Jonathan W \n\n\n\n\nThis doesn't seem right. If I want to kill you, I can because that is what I\ndecide?\n\n\nNot really. If whatever a particular society mandates as ok is ok, there are\nalways some in the \"society\" who disagree with the mandates, so which \nsocietal mandates make the standard for morality?\n >>\n\n\nSo what should be the basis? Unfortunately I have to admit to being tied at \nleast loosely to the \"feeling\", in that I think we intuitively know some things\nto be wrong. Awfully hard to defend, though.\n\n\nI might agree here. Just because certain actions are legal does not make them\n\"moral\".\ndeficits.\n\n--\n****************************************************************\n Michael A. Cobb\n \"...and I won't raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois\n class to pay for my programs.\" Champaign-Urbana\n -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu", "try comp.dcom - I was reading a thread a while back about an 800 number\nthat you could dial. worked here. It was a sales line for sprint I think\ntelling you that you could have all your customers numbers using there\nANI, then it told you your number. Should work with any modern switch.\n\nmycal\n\n", "\n\nYeah, but the problem with holding up the \"extra-rational\" examples as\nexemplars, or as refutations of well founded methodology, is that you\nrun smack up against such unuseful directions as Lysenko. Such \"extra-\nrational\" cases are curiosities -- not guides to methodology.", "\n\n\tUp to that point I thought you were talking about the\nRosicrucian Order... :-) [No offense intended!]", "I think it would be a great idea to have a new group created:\n\ncomp.sys.ibm.pc.flame.therapy", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nLet me see if I got this right.\n\nGroup of religious plinter schismatics erect a compound\nand after at least fifty years of peaceful co-existance\nwith the outside community (having shoot outs only with\neach other) - this makes them dangerous. Prior history\nwould seem to indicate they are only dangerous to themselves.\n\nLast I knew there was no National Branch Davidian Party\nblaming the debacle in VeitNam on Foreign Meddlers and\nthree-two beer, calling for the Rounding up of Meat Packers,\nGrowers and Slaughter Houses.\n\nYou want tough political choices - how about letting odd balls\nbe odd balls? (I know, this requires tolerance for \nthose that go into Government - but we all know people\nwho have no useful skills.)\n\n\nith the death of the children everybody is getting\nreal upset - what about the other 40 plus people?\nI suppose that you consider children to be property\nof the state with the family as custodians. (In the\nStates its the other way around - children are parental property.)\nIf what you consider a Corrupt Government demands that\nyou send you children into _their_ tender care - I\nsuppose that you will obey the State and turn you children\nover to their care. Sorry - I am not as enamoured of the\nwomb to tomb cradle that is IngSoc.\n\nGotta go, the beach is calling.\nchus\npyotr\n", "\n\n\n\nNot according to reports I have read. It seems that the Somalis think\nof our African American Marines in less than complimentary terms, using\ngestures that signify a word I refuse to use. Seems that even when you\ntry to help people, they still insult you.\n\n", "The battery goes dead primarily becaust the floor is cold. The temperature\ncombined with self-discharge promotes sulfation which ruins the plates of \nthe battery. I strongly suspect that the only reason the battery doesn't\ngo dead as quickly on a dirt surface is because cement tends to be quite\ncooler.\n\n", "[Someone asked about Biblical support for the image of Satan as\na fallen angel. Rev 12:7-9 and Enoch have been cited. --clh]\n\nThere is also a verse in Luke(?) that says He[Jesus] saw Satan fall\nfrom Heaven. It's something like that. I don't have my Bible in\nfront of me or I would quote it directly, but it's a pretty obvious\nreference to Satan's expulsion.\n\nJustin", "I've been running a daily summary of the Randy Weaver/Kevin\nHarris trial from here in Boise. These summaries are sent\nprimarily to mailing lists. However, I was wondering if\npeople would be interested in seeing them here. Post or\nemail.\n\nDrew ", "Hi!\n\nI don't know much about Mormons, and I want to know about serious independent\nstudies about the Book of Mormon.\n\nI don't buy the 'official' story about the gold original taken to heaven,\nbut haven't read the Book of Mormon by myself (I have to much work learning\nBiblical Hebrew), I will appreciate any comment about the results of study\nin style, vocabulary, place-names, internal consistency, and so on.\n\nFor example: There is evidence for one-writer or multiple writers?\nThere are some mention about events, places, or historical persons later\ndiscovered by archeologist?\n\nYours in Collen\n\nAndres Grino Brandt Casilla 14801 - Santiago 21\nagrino@enkidu.mic.cl Chile", "I came. I lurked. I read the FAQ.\n\nNow having purchased the recommended books, and having taken to heart the advice that\none knows nothing about crypto without having done a stint as a cryptanalyst, I would like\nto correspond with people interested in cryptology.\n\nI am working on implementing the cryptanalyst's workbench example in Booch's OOD with\nApplications. I hope to start sending ciphers back and forth so each of us can practice cracking\nthem. I would like to start with simple Ceaser's ciphers and progress roughly according to\nDavid Kahn's book. Of course I would be interested in general discussions and math also.\n\nI hope to have some foriegn correspondants so that we can test the response time of the\n\"men in the suits\" I've been hearing so much about. Unfortunately as a product of the American\neducation system I only know English.\n\nLooking forward to any and all responses.\n\nJames", "\n\n...and to make life difficult for us actuaries..... :-/\n\n-- \nMichael D. Adams\t(starowl@a2i.rahul.net)\t Champaign, IL / southeast AL", "From the Boston Globe, Thursday April 22 1993\n\np. 44\n\nWalpole man, 32, guilty in rape\n\nKenne, N.H. -- A Walpole man\ncharged with kidnapping a\nmother of two from her home, then\nraping and beating her, has pleaded \nguilty. Roger Santaw Jr. also plead-\ned guilty to an attempted escape\nfrom Cheshire County jail last win-\nter. Santaw, 32 is scheduled to be\nsentenced next week. The rape last\nfall came six months after Santaw\nwas released from prision, where\nhe spent 15 years for a rape he commit-\nted when he was 16. (AP)\n\n\n \n[end of article]\n\nAny reactions? Did he do enough time? What should his penalty\nbe? ", " Umm, perhaps you could explain what 'rights' we are talking about\nhere ..", "\n There was an interesting article in Scientific American some time ago\nabout breathing liquid. (It was a few months before _The Abyss_ came out.)\nAs far as I can remember, they mentioned three things that were difficult\nto do at once with a substitute breathing fluid:\n - low viscosity --- if it's too difficult to force the fluid in & out \n of the lungs, you can't extract enough oxygen to power your own\n breathing effort (let alone anything else)\n\n - diffusion rate --- obviously, not all the air in your lungs is\n expelled when you breathe out; and the part that isn't expelled\n is the part that's nearest the walls of the alveoli. (alveolus?)\n So the trip from the blood vessels to the new air has to be done\n by diffusion of the gas through the fluid. Apparently oxygen\n tends to diffuse more readily than CO2, so even if you can get enough\n oxygen in, you might not be able to get enough CO2 out.\n\n - oxygen/CO2 capacity --- you have to be able to dissolve enough\n gas per unit volume. \n\n Oh, and of course, your new breathing fluid must not irritate the lungs\nor interfere with their healing or anything like that... \n", "From article <1993Apr15.024246.8076@Virginia.EDU>, by ejv2j@Virginia.EDU (\"Erik Velapoldi\"):", "\n\n\n\nTHIS President. (And I could easily be wrong.)", "All I can remember is that there was an article in Scientific American\nmaybe 20 years ago. As someone else noted rats or mice fed nothing\nbut heavy water eventually died, and the explanation was given.\n-- \nhaynes@cats.ucsc.edu\nhaynes@cats.bitnet", "I'd offer $150 for your scanner, shipping at your expense, payment to\nbe sent by personal check within 24 hours after receipt of goods -- or if\nyou live nearby and can deliver, payment in cash with 24 hour advance notice\nso I can go to the bank. If sent by mail, I reserve the right to return\nit at my expense if when I check it out I find it to be defective in some\nway.\n\nBTW, why would you sell such a fine scanner? Did you replace it with\nsome other instrument or find it not to be satisfactory in some way?", "Items for sale.....\n\nThis package was bought throught a award give-away company. I attempted\nto cancel my order before I received the package, but I was too late and\nthe company refused to take the package back for refund. I know the truth\nwhich I would never get my $697 back, but I wish to get my money back as\nclose as possible. Here is the describtion of the package...\n\nNishika 3D camera\tIt takes very good picture, never been opended\n\t\t\tor used. It came with wide angle flesh, carring\n\t\t\tcase, film, and a instruction video. It has four\n\t\t\tlens and created a 3D effect on a regular 35mm\n\t\t\tfilm.\n\nJewelry\t\t\tIt came with the package as additional gift.\n\nBahama vacation voucher\tThe voucher is good for two RT airfare to Freeport.\n\t\t\tThe users get a special hotel rate of $27 per-person\n\t\t\tper-night. Meals, ground transfer, hotel tax is\n\t\t\t_not_ included.\n\nLas Vegas, Reno, Orlando\tThe voucher provides one RT airfare, and\n\t\t\t\thotel accomodation for 3 days/ 2 nights.\n\t\t\t\tMeals, ground transfer, hotel tax is not\n\t\t\t\tincluded. The voucher is good for all 3\n\t\t\t\tlocations, but you can't travel to all 3\n\t\t\t\tplaces at once.\n\nCancun, Mexico\t\tThe voucher provides one RT airfare, and hotel\n\t\t\taccomodation for 3 days / 2 nights. Meals and\n\t\t\tground transfer, hotel tax is not included as\n\t\t\tusual.\n\nI paid $697 for the whole package. So try not to be cold-blooded when you\nmake your offer. Details would be provided by request. I do wish to sell\nthe whole package at once. So if you are just looking for the vacation\nvouchers, I don't care if you sell the camera to other for a higher pric\nIf you are interested in the camera, you could treat the vacation vouchers\nas gift.\n\nIf you receive a letter in your mail box which says that you are selected\nto be part of the sweeptake and you have at least one out of five awards. \nTrust me, you would get the exactly the same package as I did. There is \nonly one award which will be given away. So don't bother even to call them \nback, if you are really interested, you could get it from me for a cheaper \nprice. And you could receive the package within a week ( I waited three \nmonths to get my first and final packages). Also, they would ask for your\ncredit card number and you have to pay for the interest to the credit \ncard company. So why spend more than you should when you could get them\nfrom me for a cheaper price.\n\nIf you are interested, please reply to me as soon as posible. I really\nwish to get this over with. Make me an offer, if I am confortable with\nyour offer, I would send the package by U.P.S. the next day morning.\nMore details could be given if you wish.\n\nPlease contact me at koutd@hirama.hiram.edu", "\nYep, that's pretty much it. I'm not a Jew but I understand that this is the\nJewish way of thinking. However, the Jews believe that the Covenant between\nYHWH and the Patriarchs (Abraham and Moses, in this case) establishes a Moral\nCode to follow for mankind. Even the Jews could not decide where the boundaries\nfall, though.\n\nAs I understand it, the Sadducees believed that the Torah was all that was\nrequired, whereas the Pharisees (the ancestors of modern Judaism) believed that\nthe Torah was available for interpretation to lead to an understanding of\nthe required Morality in all its nuances (->Talmud).\n\nThe essence of all of this is that Biblical Morality is an interface between\nMan and YHWH (for a Jew or Christian) and does not necessarily indicate\nanything about YHWH outside of that relationship (although one can speculate).\n\n\nThe trouble with all of this is that we don't really know what the \"created\nin His image\" means. I've heard a number of different opinions on this and\nhave still not come to any conclusion. This rather upsets the Apple Cart if\none wants to base a Life Script on this shaky foundation (to mix metaphors\nunashamedly!) As to living by Christ's example, we know very little about\nJesus as a person. We only have his recorded utterances in a set of narratives\nby his followers, and some very small references from comtemporary historians.\nRevelation aside, one can only \"know\" Christ second-hand or worse.\n\nThis is not an attempt to debunk Christianity (although it may seem that way\ninitially), the point I`m trying to make is that we only really have the Bible\nto interpret, and that interpretation is by humanity. I guess this is where\nFaith or Relevation comes in with all its inherent subjectiveness.\n\n\nNo. There may be an absolute moral code. There are undoubtably multiple\nmoral codes. The multiple moral codes may be founded in the absolute moral\ncode. As an example, a parent may tell a child never to swear, and the child\nmay assume that the parent never swears simply because the parent has told\nthe child that it is \"wrong\". Now, the parent may swear like a trooper in\nthe pub or bar (where there are no children). The \"wrongness\" here is if\nthe child disobeys the parent. The parent may feel that it is \"inappropriate\"\nto swear in front of children but may be quite happy to swear in front of\nanimals. The analogy does not quite hold water because the child knows that\nhe is of the same type as the parent (and may be a parent later in life) but\nyou get the gist of it? Incidentally, the young child considers the directive\nas absolute until he gets older (see Piaget) and learns a morality of his own.\n\nDavid.\n\n---\nOn religion:", "\n\n\n\nOf course, then there's the other side. An article in yesterday's Atlanta\nJournal stated that there are many scientists who have misgivings that the \ndata being used to determine whether or not global warming is occuring is\nfaulty. The point that the article made is that all long term temperature\ndataa collected has been in urban areas, and that any heat rise can be\nattributed to the growth and urbanization of the area. They called it\nthe \"asphalt temperature trend\". We have no real long term data on remote\nareas, such as the middle of the Amazon rain forest, or the top of Mt. Everest\nor the Gobi desert, for that matter. An accompanying article mentioned that\na group of scientists at NASA had developed a method for using a satellite\nto collect temperature data globally, and that preliminary results showed\na slight downward trend attributed to the Mt Pinatubo eruption. It went\non to say that even with the current downward trend, there appeared to be\n*NO* change in global temperatures using trend prediction methods for at\nleast the next 50 years.\n\nI can quote the article verbatim if you like..", "\nGood statement! Should we apply empirical measurements to define exact\nsocial morals? Should morals be based on social rules? On ancient\nreligious doctrines? It seems there will *NEVER* be a common and single\ndenominator for defining morals, and as such defining absolute\nand objective morals is doomed to fail as long as humans have \nthis incredible talent of creative thinking.\n\nCheers,\nKent", "\nRight on, it is every citizen's right and duty to FORCE government\naccountability.\n\n(anecdotes deleted)\n\n\nAlso keep in mind that cops will LIE in court to get their way! (don't get\nme started by asking how I know ;) If you decide to fight you have to be ready\nfor this as well as devise strategy to make the cop's story doubtful in the\njudge/jury's mind.", "\nI'd lay long odds that it was the other way around. Clinton didn't\njust pull this plan out of any bodily orifices; the NSA has to have\nbeen working on it for years. While it's possible that Denning (and\nother prominent people) just happened to start arguing for such a\nsystem, it seems more likely that there was a suggestion involved.\nIf this guess is wrong, I apologize.", "\n\n\nGee, I'd FORGOTTEN about THIS NUT.\n\n\n", "\nThe arrest of Noriega did not have any major adverse effect on the\ndrug trade going through Panama. Money laundering continues to be\nPanama's main industry. In fact, it is bigger now than before Noriega\nwas arrested [1]. Panama's current administration also has ties with\nthe Colombian cocaine cartels [2]. And large amounts cocaine still\nflow through Panama on a regular basis [3].\n\nOh well...\n\nSources (from the book _Drugs in America_ by Vincent Bugliosi):\n[1] IRS Criminal Investigations Divison\n[2] _New York Times_\n[3] U.S. State Department\n", "\nWell, the fact of the matter is that poverty is imperfectly related to \nsocial and political instability, while economic inequality is much more\nstrongly related. In virtually all major revolutions including\nEngland (the Puritan revolution), France, Russia and China, the \nrevolutions occurred as economies were undergoing substantial long term \ngrowth and poverty was declining. What sets off revolutions is massive\ninequality coupled with a perception on the part of those at the bottom\nthat social change is possible.\n\nIf \"poverty (were) the main engine of social instability,\" this typical\nhistorical pattern would not hold. In fact, revolutions would have been\nfar more typical before the nineteenth century than since that time.\n\n[Much deleted...]\n\n\nSorry, buddy, but some other \"blowhards\" managed to include the \"general\nwelfare\" in another portion of the constitution.\n\nArticle I Section 8: \"The Congress shall have the power to lay and collect\ntaxes...to pay the debts and provide for the common defence and GENERAL\nWELFARE of the United States...\"\n\nI guess they wanted to make sure everyone understood they meant what they\nsaid in the preamble.\n\n\nBut as noted above, the constitution doesn't say that, does it?\n\n\nBut since it explicitly includes both the general welfare and defense\nin Article I, Section 8, I guess you'll grant that botha are constitutional\nfunctions. Right?\n\njsh", "\n\nWell, if everything wouldn't be okay, then tell us what it is that\nwouldn't be okay. That is, if religions were no longer tax-exempt, then\nwhat would be wrong with their lobbying or otherwise attempting to\ninfluence politics?", " \n \n Cute word angst. Conveys volumes.\n \n I'd be interested in this particular definition of \"we.\" It's\nsuch a fluid pronoun.\n \n \n The BD were a paranoid little cult out in the middle of nowhere,\nwhich all of a sudden had their worst paranoid fears reinforced.\n \n Joy.\n \n \n Yes, they probably should have, although how many paranoid\nnuts can say they held off the feds for 51 days?\n \n \n The voting booth is highly over-rated. People need to get up\noff their lazy butts more than every year or every two years. Hell,\nmost don't even do that.\n \n \n No, because \"we\" have decided that it doesn't make enough\ndifference to \"us\" to get up and do something. That's something,\nfor instance, a lot of people who go speak against gun control\nbills at their local government. Dozens of \"pro-gun\" speakers\nshow up and few if any antis do, but they often win anyway.\n \n Why? Because it doesn't matter who shows up, it matters\nwho's willing to scream afterwards. And it isn't that most people\ngive a damn one way of the other, but that they don't. Nobody\ngives a damn about anybody beyond their own little worlds.\n \n \n The general public's usually not even read the constitution.\nAnd what they have learned is a distorted picture of the whole thing.\n ", "\nYou must be _incredibly_ bored. Have you considered reading the phone book?\n-- \n", "it may be a little late to reply to your tirade and also on an inaapropriate\nboard but along with all of the so called great things the white male has done they have also contributed to society by means of mass genocide, the theft of\nideas and cultures, creating and the perptration of historical lies throughouttime among many other horrible activities.\nbut every culture has its upside and its downside. it seems to me that the \nwhite male (must be extremely ignorant to qualify for the following - if\nyou're not disregard) and western culture are the only things that look to \nactively classify things as good or bad, worthy or unworthy (ya dig)\nit can be seen with slavery and the manipulation and destruction of the \namerican indians civilization. nothing but selfish acts that benefit one \ngroup of people (and not even their women get or got respected or regarded as\nequal - ain't that some stuff)\n\nwhite men - not being specific - but in a lot of cases are just wack or have\nwack conceptions of how the world is to serve their purpose. \n\njust look at david koresh - throughout history (i may be shortsighted on this one so excuse my predjudiced ignorance) only white men associate themselves withbeing GOD. no other culture is ignorant or arrogant enough to assume such a \nposition. and then to manipulate and mislead all those people.\n\nhmmm... i'd say look in your history books but since it seems that history \nhas been written to glorify the exploits of white men you'd only find lies.\n\nawww that's enough already from me because this has nothing to do with sex or this board. if ya'd like to continue this discussion e-mail me and we can \ncompare and contrast ideas\n\n\t\t\ti like conflict - it's educational when the \n\t\t\tcommuncation is good......................\n\nmy $.02 worth\n\n(i apologize to those who thought this was going to be about SEX but i was\nprompted by a response i found up here)", "\n: |>You might visit some congregations of Christians, who happen to be homosexuals,\n: |>that are spirit-filled believers, not MCC'rs; before you go lumping us all\n: |>together with Troy Perry. \n: |>\n\n: Gee, I think there are some real criminals (robbers, muderers, drug\n: addicts) who appear to be fun loving caring people too. So what's\n: your point? Is it OK. just because the people are nice?\n\nThe point is not about being \"nice.\" \"Nice\" is not a christian virtue. The\npoint is that the gifts and fruits of the spirit (by their fruits you shall\nknow them- Mt 7:20) are manifested by and among prayerful, spirit-filled\nGAY christians. It was the manifestation of the spirit among the gentiles\nthat convinced Peter (Acts 10) that his prejudice against them (based on\nscripture, I might add) was not in accordance with God's intentions.\n\n: I think the old saying \" hate the sin and not the sinner\" is\n: appropriate here. Many who belive homosexuality is wrong probably\n: don't hate the people. I don't. I don't hate my kids when they do\n: wrong either. But I tell them what is right, and if they lie or don't\n: admit they are wrong, or just don't make an effort to improve or\n: repent, they get punished. I think this is quite appropriate. You\n: may want to be careful about how you think satan is working here.\n: Maybe he is trying to destroy our sense of right and wrong through\n: feel goodism. Maybe he is trying to convince you that you know more\n: than God. Kind of like the Adam and Eve story. Read it and compare\n: it to today's mentality. You may be suprised.\n\nOf course the whole issue is one of discernment. It may be that Satan\nis trying to convince us that we know more than God. Or it may be that\nGod is trying (as God did with Peter) to teach us something we don't\nknow- that \"God shows no partiality, but in every nation anyone who fears\nhim and does what is right is acceptable to him.\" (Acts 10:34-35).", "\n\n\n\tWho does the categorizing?\n\n\t\n--- \n\n \" I'd Cheat on Hillary Too.\"", "\n\n >Some< of?\n\n\n Yes, I think so and it has been reported as such. Seems like a cowboy\nmovie-style attack was needed for some reason....\n\n\n The answer is probably YES. But consider; what was the WORST thing that\ncould have happened if they waited? Hint: whatever it was it could not have\nbeen any worse that what DID happen. \n\n\n But that statement of taking full responsibility is totally meaningless.\nWhat are the consequences for being fully responsible for this disaster?\nA note in your personnell file?? Slick already called these people a bunch\nof crazy people and dismissed the idea she should resign. Doesn't take \nANY balls at all to take the responsibility. Hell, at that rate >I< will\ntake full responsibility for it. No skin off my nose....\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------", "It's gotta be an HBP.\n", "\t\n\n\tThe \"System\" refered to a \"moral system\". You havn't shown any \nreason that chimps \"must\" have a moral system. \n\tExcept if you would like to redefine everything.\n\n\n--- \n\n \" Whatever promises that have been made can than be broken. \"", "SREBRENICA'S DOCTOR RECOUNTS TOWN'S LIVING HELL\n \n By Laura Pitter\n TUZLA, Bosnia, Reuter - Neret Mujanovic was a pathologist\nwhen he trekked through the mountains to the besieged Muslim\ntown of Srebrenica last August.\n But after treating 4,000 mangled victims of Bosnia's bloody\nwar, he considers himself a surgeon.\n ``Now I'm a surgeon with great experience although I have no\nlicense to practice. But if I operate on a person and he lives\nnormally that's the greatest license a surgeon could have.''\n Evacuated by the U.N. this week to his home town of Tuzla,\nthe Muslim physician gave an eyewitness medical assessment of\nthe horrors of the year-long Serb siege of Srebrenica and the\nsuffering of the thousands trapped there.\n ``I lived through hell together with the people of\nSrebrenica. All those who lived through this are the greatest\nheroes that humanity can produce,'' he told reporters.\n Mujanovic, 31, had practiced for two months as an assistant\nat a local hospital in Tuzla, but before going to Srebrenica he\nhad never performed a surgical operation on his own. Now he says\nhe has performed major surgery 1,396 times, relying on books for\nguidance, amputating arms and legs 150 times, usually without\nanesthetic, delivering 350 babies and performing four cesarean\nsections.\n He worked 18-to-19-hour days, slept in the hospital for the\nfirst 10 weeks after his arrival last Aug. 5 and treated 4,000\npatients.\n He arrived after making the trek over mountains on foot from\nTuzla, 60 miles northwest of Srebrenica. About 50 other people\ncarried in supplies and 350 soldiers guided and protected him\nthrough guerrilla terrain, he said.\n His worst memory was of 10 days ago when seven Serb shells\nlanded within one minute in an area half the size of a football\nfield, killing 36 people immediately and wounding 102. Half of\nthe dead were women and children.\n The people had come out for a rare day of sunshine and the\nchildren were playing soccer. ``There was no warning ... the\nblood flowed like a river in the street,'' he said.\n ``There were pieces of women all around and you could not\npiece them together. One woman holding her two children in her\nhands was lying with them on the ground dead. They had no\nheads.''\n Before Mujanovic arrived with his supplies conditions were\ndeplorable, he said. Many deaths could have been prevented had\nthe hospital had surgical tools, facilities and medicine.\n The six general practitioners who had been operating before\nhe arrived had even less surgical experience than he did. ``They\ndidn't know the basic principles for amputating limbs.''\n Once he arrived the situation improved, he said, but by\nmid-September he had run out of supplies.\n ``Bandages were washed and boiled five times ... sometimes\nthey were falling apart in my hands,'' he said. Doctors had no\nanesthetic and could not give patients alcohol to numb the pain\nbecause it increased bleeding.\n ``People were completely conscious during amputations and\nstomach operations,'' he said. Blood transfusions were\nimpossible because they had no facilities to test blood types.\n ``I felt destroyed psychologically,'' Mujanovic said.\n The situation improved after Dec. 4, when a convoy arrived\nfrom the Belgian medical group Medecins Sans Frontieres.\n But Mujanovic said the military predicament worsened in\nmid-December after Bosnian Serbs began a major offensive in the\nregion. ``Every day we had air strikes and shellings.''\n Then the hunger set in.\n Between mid-December and mid-March, when U.S. planes began\nair dropping food, between 20 and 30 people were dying every day\nfrom complications associated with malnutrition, he said.\n ``I know for sure that the air drop operation saved the\npeople from massive death by hunger and starvation,'' he said.\n According to Mujanovic, around 5,000 people died in\nSrebrenica, 1,000 of them children, during a year of siege.\n Mujanovic plans to return to Srebrenica in three weeks after\nvisiting his wife, who is ill in Tuzla.\n ``They say I'm a hero,'' he said. ``There were thousands of\npeople standing at the sides of the road, crying and waving when\nI left. And I cried too.''\n", "I was one of the unfortunate people to run into this guy. I sent him\n$30 cash (Stupid, I know) for 4 CDs. That was the last I heard of him.\n\nI know there were some other people ripped off by this guy. Has there been\nany advances in tracking him down?", "Please excuse the interruption.\n \nI am seeking pro-life activists to fill out a 13-page questionnaire\non attitutes, opinions, and activities. If you would be willing\nto participate in this research, please email me privately at\nKSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET. All replies and questionnaires will be\nmade anonymous prior to printout and will be kept confidential.\n \nThank you very much for your help.\n \n--Kerry at Purdue", "Net citizens!\nThis is a desperate try to save our last course in university.\nWe are writing a study about the Net, how it all started, about the people\nliving in it, however trying to explain the basics of how it all works.\nThat includes you, reader of this message.\nWe would be more than grateful if we could get your answers to the following \nquestions;\n\n1. For how many years have you known that Internet existed?\n2. How often do you use the Net? (occasions per month)\n3. Whatfor? (hobby, in your profession, socialy...)\n4. How do you access the Net? (university, profession, friends, private...)\n5. Has the Net taken over roles that other media played before? (telephone, \n newspapers, TV, girlfriend...)\n6. What newsgroups/type of information do you take part of?\n7. Male or Female?\n8. Age?\n\n If you have the time; \n9. What's your future visions about the Net? Limits and/or possibilities. \n10.How do you think/hope law and censorship will change over time ahead?\n\nWe also want to apologize for taking up so much bandwidth with this.\nThis request has been spread to 60 newsgroups, chosen at random, but, \nyou know how it is, term end is closing up, panic spreads.\nEmail address: fm91hn@hik.se or fm91pb@hik.se\n\nSincere Respect And May The Force Be With You All!", "I'mposting this for my emplyer who doesn't have net access, (but you can reply\nhere, and I'll get the message to him.\n\nMy boss is looking for two books on the group Mamas and Papas\n\nPapa John by John Phillips\nCalifornia Dreaming - (he told me who wrote it, but I don't remember)\n\nHe'd prefer hardcover, but paperback will do.\n\nIf you have these and are willing to sell, e-mail me here, and I'll pass the me\nssage along.\n\nThank you", "In the hopes of adding a little life to, what seems to be, the\nsame old debates, I would like to add a few bits of info and ask for\ncomments.\n\n1) A couple days ago the headlines were splashed with stories of proof\n that the North Vietnamese had held U.S. hostages after the war ended.\n\tWay back in today's newspaper (Page A7 of San Francisco Chronicle)\n there is an article about the document that held the proof.\n\t[used without permission]\n\n\t\"The document, which was discovered in the archives of the Soviet\n Communist Party in Moscow, is a Russian translation of what is described\n as a September 1972 report prepared for the Vietnam Politburo by General\n Tran Van Quang, who is identified as the deputy chief of staff of the\n North Vietnamese army.\"\n [later on in the article after it talks about the claim of 1,205\n Americans in North Vietnamese prisons]\n\t\"Phong said the easiest way to prove that the document is a \n fabrication is to review Quang's career. In 1972, he said, Quang was \n not deputy chief of staff; he was the army commander in Military Region 4\n in central Vietnam.\"\n\n2) I heard on the radio that the Church of Scientology has filed for \n bankrupcy becuase the employees of Cocolat , owned by CoS, filed a \n class action suit against them for requiring the employees to pay dues\n to become members of the Church. Anyone heard more about this?\n\n3) Micheal Jackson went into business with Micheal Milken. No lie.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\"Who said anything about panicking?\" snapped Authur. Garrett Johnson\n\"This is still just culture shock. You wait till I've Garrett@Ingres.com\nsettled into the situation and found my bearings.\nTHEN I'll start panicking!\" - Douglas Adams ", "\n\nEither the government has force available to it, or it doesn't. The\nLibertarian position is that the government can use force only when someone\nelse uses force first -- even when that first force is not directed\nagainst the government, but one of its citizens. That all being true, \nwhat safeguards do we have against the government CLAIMING that some\ninitiation of force on its part is really a response? (Like the burning\nof the Maine, the Tonkin Gulf incident, or the assault on Waco?)\n\nI ask this not to argue, but to understand.\n\n(Followups to alt.politics.libertarian only.)\n-- ", "Mark Gregory Foster writes (concerning 1 Corinthians 16:2):\n\n > The idea was introduced to me once that the reason Paul wanted\n > the Corinthians to lay aside money for the collection on the\n > first day of the week was that this was when they received their\n > weekly wages.\n\nBut the ancient Romans did not observe a seven-day week. Unless a\nman was working for a Jewish employer, he is unlikely to have been\npaid on the first day of a seven-day week. Nor would a Jewish\nemployer have kept his wages over the week-end (see Lev 19:13; Dt\n24:15).", "\n\nMathew:\n\nCould you let us know when this happened, so I can see if my version\nis as up-to-date as possible? I try to re-save the FAQs once in a \nwhile, but otherwise I ignore their regular postings, so I wouldn't \ngenerally notice such a change.\n\nAnd I like to stay current.\n\nThanks,", "\nWhy all the quote marks, Roy? I can see that they might be appropriate where\nthere is a legitimate concern that the words are being distorted by context, \nor that they have been appropriated Newspeak-style, but, reading your comments above,\none might be excused if they assumed that you were claiming that \"child abuse\",\n\"forced\" sexual activity, and \"damage\" caused by this is non-existant or\ngreatly overblown.\n\n\"Positive experiences\", indeed!\n\n-Paul Elliott\n(Member in good standing of the Optilink Mafia)\n\n\n", "\n\nSee, there you go again, saying that a moral act is only significant\nif it is \"voluntary.\" Why do you think this?\n\nAnd anyway, humans have the ability to disregard some of their instincts.\n\n\nYou are attaching too many things to the term \"moral,\" I think.\nLet's try this: is it \"good\" that animals of the same species\ndon't kill each other. Or, do you think this is right? \n\nOr do you think that animals are machines, and that nothing they do\nis either right nor wrong?\n\n\n\nThose weren't arbitrary killings. They were slayings related to some sort\nof mating ritual or whatnot.\n\n\nYes it was, but I still don't understand your distinctions. What\ndo you mean by \"consider?\" Can a small child be moral? How about\na gorilla? A dolphin? A platypus? Where is the line drawn? Does\nthe being need to be self aware?\n\nWhat *do* you call the mechanism which seems to prevent animals of\nthe same species from (arbitrarily) killing each other? Don't\nyou find the fact that they don't at all significant?", "\n\n You are correct WRT the idea of some heating being nice that morning. But \npart of that line was also for the guy who said \"minutes later, the fires\nstarted\". I did forget how cool it was that day.\n\n\n When you got 30-40 mph winds swinging across the Texas plain, a couple of\nHueys don't add one whole hell of a lot.\n\nsemper fi,", "I appreciate if anyone can point out some good books about the dead sea\nscrolls of Qumran. Thanks in advance.", "# >... Why would the picture tube explode or even smoke?\n\nNaw, it was the penguin on TOP of the set that exploded...\n;-}\n", "\n\nWhy are only those people in favor of the system to blame. If society\naccepts such a system, then each member of society is to blame when\nan innocent person gets executed. Those that are not in favor should\nwork to convince others.\n\nAnd, most members of our society have accepted the blame--they've considered\nthe risk to be acceptable. Similarly, every person who drives must accept\nthe blame for fatal traffic accidents. This is something that is surely\ngoing to happen when so many people are driving. It is all a question of\nwhat risk is acceptable. It is much more likely that an innocent person\nwill be killed driving than it is that one will be executed.", "\n ... So how about this? Give the winning group\n (I can't see one company or corp doing it) a 10, 20, or 50 year\n moratorium on taxes.\n\nYou are talking about the bozos who can't even manage in November to\nkeep promises about taxes made in October, and you expect them to make\n(and keep!) a 50-year promise like that? Your faith in the political\nsystem is much higher than mine. I wouldn't even begin to expect that\nin Australia, and we don't have institutionalised corruption like you\ndo.", "\nConsidering that Clinton received a draft notice and got out of it (he admits it) the political feasibility of him abolishing it is not something he would\nbe inclined to risk any extra exposure on.\n\n\nIf you read Aviation Week, the C-5 line can be reopened and the C-5s\nwould be delivered a year earlier and cost a billion less for the \nprogram. Politically, though, the C-17 is popular pork.\n\nAgreed. Congress took money from NASA and FHA to fund the second Seawolf.\nThe shipyards are still building Los Angeles Class submarines and there\nis a lack of ASW foes to contend with. The Navy is considering reducing\nthe number of attack subs to 40 (Navy Times) and that would entail\ngetting rid of or mothballing some of the current Los Angeles class.\n\nPolitically, General Dynamics is in Connecticut and we will get\nSeawolf subs whether we need them or not.\n\nIn addition, more bases need to be closed. Probably Long Beach Naval Station\nand others. The Navy is talking about three main bases on each coast being \nrequired to home port a total fleet of 320 ships.\n\nThe question is whether Les Aspin and Clinton will be able to face down\na pork happy Congress.\n", ": \n: > Surely you are not equating David Koresh with Christianity? The two are\n: > not comparable.\n: \n: This is always an option: when the sect is causing harm, re-label\n: the cult to something else.\n: \n: Cheers,\n: Kent\n\nGood point.\n\nI would not doubt that DK could have spouted verse and debated with best.\nAccording to reports his extensive Bible knowledge was one way he sucked\nin the fools (followers?).\n\nQuote bible all you want. I too judge what you say be what you do and\neven more by if it makes sense.\n\nSense, common that is. Doesn't seem so common after all!\n", "Anybody got any good/bad experience with selling their car through one of\nthose car hunters? I'm selling a 1991 Dodge Stealth R/T and I was contacted\nby this company called the Markham group based out of Illinois. \n\nThey said they have 7-10 buyers in my area interested in my car or they wouldn't\nbe talking to me. They talked to me for a good 20 minutes asking everything\nabout my car and said they could sell it no problem. They guaranteed that if\nthey didn't sell my car in 75 days, I would get my money back ($389) and since\nI charged it, I'm protected by federal law which states that if I'm not satisfied,\nI would get a refund (which is true). They federal expressed all the paperwork \nto me which had a contract stating their policy about the 75 days and such.", "\n\n(\"Andi Beyer\") responds:\n\n\nTalk about generalizations. Indeed, you DO sound quite immature.\n\n\nWhat? The ACLU fighting against an anti-hate law? You mean that the\nACLU would support gay-bashing, racial discrimination and anti-semitic\nviolence? Thanks, Andi, for reminding us that the constitution\npreserves our rights to such fun activities.\n\n\nProbably, but Galileo happened to be right.\n\nJews are offended by the Holocaust deniers, too. The Revisionists,\nwho deny that history even happened, happen to be wrong.\n\n", "\n: This topic was beaten to death a year or so ago.\n\n: The concrete is not the problem. \n\n: Lead-acid batteries often fail from disuse (not being charged for a long\n: time), but there's no way the concrete floor could be the cause of the\n: problem.\n\nDitto. The only remote, and I do say remote, possibility is that if the\nground was REAL cold (< -30F) the battery might freeze an split. But then\nit would probably freeze anyway :-)", "\n\nScience does not progress via experimentation but by philosophising. One\naim of experiments is to investigate the validity of the hyptheses\nresulting from the models produced by this thinking process.\n\n\nScience has one advantage of all other approaches to explaining the world.\nIt is objective.\n\n\nAnything which affects the physical world can be studied. For example,\nsince we are part of the physical world, anything (including spirits) which\naffects our behaviour can be observed. Science does not make any claims\nabout the existence or non-existence of objects which do not affect the\nphysical world.\n\n\nThe purpose of science is to produce a model of the *physical* world. The\nmodel must be able to explain all past observations and predict the outcome\nof future observations. One of the aims of experiments is to carry out\nwell defined observations which are objective.\n\nIdeally scientist will except the model which best describes the world, and\nthe model which realises on the minimal number of assumptions. At the\nmoment models which do not rely on the assumption of some *spiritual* world\nexisting are equally powerful to ones which assume the assumption of a\n*spiritual* world. As the non-spiritual models has fewer assumptions it\nshould be the currently accepted models.\n\nThe scientific process never assumes that its present models are the\ncorrect ones, whereas many religions claim to represent the truth. The\narrogance of many theists is that they claim to represent the truth, this\ncannot be said of scientists.", "\n\n\n\nThis is just basicly right. The connections that cannot handle touchtone dialing is very few. I would estimate a couple of percents and if you are in a bigger\ntown, there is none that cannot handle tone dialing.\nAnd regarding our swedish dialing system (a rather screwd up system), that does\njust apply to pulsdialing. Not to touchtone.\nBtw; Norway is even more interesting. They got both system! So you need different phones depending on where in the country you live.", "This request goes out to medical students who have done\nor are planning to sit the USMLE (or National Boards) Part 1.\n\nMy wife is sitting this examination in early June this year and would\nlike to have a look at some old National Boards, Part 1 questions\nfound in the following books. These books are currently out of print.\n \n\nThe books are:\n\n(1) Retired NBME Basic Medical Science Test Items, NBME;\n Published by NBME in 1991\n\n(2) Self-test in the Part 1 Basic Medical Sciences, NBME;\n Published by NBME in 1989\n\nI would appreciate if anyone who has these books is willing\nto loan it to her for a couple of days. Obviously, I would\nreimburse for you all postage and related charges. Failing\nthat it would be beneficial if anyone could point to any\nlibrary in the NY, NJ or PA area that may have these books.\n\nPlease respond by e-mail since I do not read this newsgroup\nregularly.\n\nThanks in advance.\n\n\nDaniel\n", "\nWell, it wasn't that way for Enoch and Elijah, both of whom were\ntranslated directly into heaven. It's beyond my grasp why some object\nthat Mary, who was far greater than either Enoch or Elijah, should not\nbenefit from the same privelege they recieved. She was after all,\nMother of God, full of grace, and immaculate.\n\n\nAnd in St. Germain of Constantinople and St. John of Damascus, and in\nSt. Andrew of Crete, among others.\n\nAnd it should be noted that the Monophysite Chruches of Egypt and Syria\nalso hold to this belief as part of divine revelation, even though they\nbroke away from the unity of the Chruch in 451 AD by rejecting the\nCouncil of Chalcedon. It might be argued by some Protestants that the\nCatholics and Orthodox made this belief up, but the Monophysites, put a\nbig hole in that notion, as they also hold the belief, and they split\nfrom the Chruch before the belief was first annunciated in writing (as\nfar as is known, much has been lost from the time of the Fathers).", "\nThere is a (likely) veto proof majority in the house. The Senate,\nunfortunately, is a different story. The Lt.Gov. has vowed that the bill will\nnot be voted on, and he has the power to do it. In addition, the Senate is a\nmuch smaller, and more readily manipulated body.\n\nOn ther other hand, the semi-automatic ban will likely not live, as at least\nfifty per cent of the house currently opposes it, and it is VERY far down in\nthe bill order in the Senate (I believe it will be addressed after the CCW\nbill).\n\nAnd I thought my TX Political Science class was a waste of time!", "\n\nWell, yes and no. I don't particularly want this discussion to spark\na lengthy debate, but I do think it's worth pointing out that \"popular\nusage\" is not always sufficient excuse. \n\nIn this case, for example, I think an appropriate parallel may be found\nin the pronunciation of proper names: if people commonly misspelled or \nmispronounced your name, would you feel compelled to change it? Probably\nnot. \n\nThe same is true of X. \"The X Window System\", \"X\", \"X11\", and related\nmonickers are proper names in the same sense that any product name is a\nproper name. In fact, some of them are *trademarked* names. The fact \nthat many people get them wrong is largely beside the point. \n\nAs for the trade publications that promulgate things like \"X Window\" or\n\"X.windows\" or any of the other nonsensical variants one often sees, \nconsider the fact that these publications are supposedly written by \n*journalists*. Would you trust the facts of a journalist who couldn't\nbe bothered to get the name of his/her source right? Would you trust\na product review by someone who got the name of the product wrong?\n\nPopular usage is as it may be, but I for one am all for holding people\nwho claim to be journalists to a higher standard of correctness.\n", "Don't get fooled by exponents 2^80 (possible keys) is not in the\nsame league with 10^80 (particles in the universe). 2^80 < 10^25.\nRemember Avagadro's number? There are about that many elementary\nparticles (not molecules) in one mole. Pretty small universe! Or if\nyou can put 5 Gigabytes on one tape, you would need about 10 trillion\ntapes (allowing several bytes per entry). Still more than all of the\nexisting magnetic media on the planet, but wait a few years. (I'm\nincluding existing audio and video cassettes in the total. Ten\ntrillion is about 2,000 per person worldwide... Gives new meaning to\nthe suspicions of hiden messages.)\n\n--\n\n\t\t\t\t\tRobert I. Eachus", "[reply to kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan)]\n \n \n \n \nJeez, can't he get anything straight. I told him to wait for three\ndays.\n \nGOD", "I ordered an Intrepid ES on Jan 25th and haven't seen it yet. I called\na couple of weeks ago and was told 2-3 more weeks. It's probably time\nto call again.", "\n<<>>\n\n", "\n\tahh, yes, this is a fun topic. No, once the name is incribed on the\ndisk, that is it, it is encoded. Not even a HEX editor will find it. You can\nwrite over the \"Licensed to:\", but you can't change the name underneth it. I\nthink if you wish to change this you would have to be a pirate, and we're not\ngoing to promote that here.\n\n ------------------------------------------------------------------------\n | Robert S. Dubinski | Aliases include: Robb, Regal, Sir, Mr., and I |\n ------------------------------------------------------------------------\n | Marquette University ||||||||||| Math / Computer Science Double-Major|\n ------------------------------------------------------------------------\n | Internet Address: 2A42Dubinski.vms.csd.mu.edu |\tMilwaukee, WI |", "\nWell I am one of those (apparently) odd people who can sometimes\ncontrol their dreams. For example, I might decide before going to\nsleep that I want to repeat a favourite dream, or dream about a\nspecific place. Or if I am having an unpleasant dream, I can often\n(not always) redirect events to something more pleasant.\n\nI guess I think that the same standards apply in these \"directed\"\ndreams as apply in waking fantasies or real life (ref Jesus teaching\nabout looking at a woman lustfully being the same a committing\nadultary).\n\nWhen my normal dreams display themes that I would not conciously chose\nto dream about, I take that as a sign that all is not well with my\n\"inner life\" - maybe I have underlying tenstions/fears that need to be\nresolved, or maybe its straightforward sin. In either case, the cause\nneeds to be resolved. \n\nIn fact, either case is pretty rare. I don't\noften remember dreams that I don't chose to have. When I do, they\nalmost always tell me something important.\nI also almost never dream in pictures, and especially not in colour\n(in fact I've had precisely one full colour picture dream that I can\nremember, and it was definately spiritually important)\nI tend to dream in sound, with the odd blurred image, in black and\nwhite.\n\nInteresting topic - I'll be fascinated to read other responses.\n\nAlison", "\n\tPerhaps we ought not to have supported a known genocidist?\n\tProvided him with weapon systems, tactical support, technology,\netc.\n\n\tWe made Suddam Hussein.\n\n\tWhat did Bush call him? Oh yes, an ally and a freind.\n\n\n--- \n\n \" I'd Cheat on Hillary Too.\"", "\nThis is why I asked to be 'enlightened'. You are making claims about what\n'is' or 'is not' part of this program. But if the \"block grants\" go to states\nand cities, the mayors list is VERY relivent.\n \n\nOkay scarasm does deserve sacrasm, but I already contact my local officals, my\ncongress rep., senators, Watch evening news, news programs, and C-SPAN.\n \n\n\nThe fact is that Primetime (TM of ABC) has had numberous reposts on such waste\nprograms that already exist. Again, if we are truely intrested in eliminating\nthe DEBT, we must REMOVE the DEFICIT, and do away with ALL PORK !!! \n\nThere have been several books written on gov. waste, network news programs \nfrom time to time devote segments to this, and there have been bills proposed\nthat significantly reduces expenditures without touching external programs by \nchanging the way 'congress does business' (and make it more efficent).\n\nTrue, blame is easy, but also is spending someone else's money. \n\nClinton ran on a platform that he would '...not raise taxes on the middle class\nto pay for these (his) programs'. He has proposed a program that is not \nspecific, that counts on tax hikes to pay for.\n\n-- \n======================================================================\n\nKen M. Edwards, Bell Northern Research, Research Triangle Park, NC\n(919) 481-8476 email: cnc23a@bnr.ca Ham: N4ZBB\n\nAll opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views of\nmy employer or co-workers, family, friends, congress, or president.", "\n\n\tThe girl's OK, actually, and she recovered well enough to go home. I\ndon't know if she has any permanent damage, though. Just in case anybody was\nconcerned...\n\n\n\tIf people start forcing others to take responsibility for their actions\nthings like this wouldn't happen. Untill we stop blaming outside causes, and\nstart blaming the criminals, we will continue to let things like this happen.\n\n", "...\n\nIf we are indeed talking about CS, then this is not quite accurate. CS is\n\"just\" tear gas--albeit the worst kind. It isn't a nausea gas, and doesn't\nhave direct CNS effects. However, it's quite bad--much worse than CN gas. I\nwas briefly exposed to it once (during an engagement in Berkeley circa 1968\n8^) and it's not the kind of thing you forget. It seems to be\nmoisture-activated--it not only made my eyes sting and water, but attacked\nmy breathing passages and lungs. Breathing was painful, and my entire face\nfelt as if it was on fire. These effects persisted for hours after\nexposure, and I was coughing for days afterwards. If I was exposed to a\ndense concentration of this stuff in a closed space for several hours, I\ndoubt whether I could find the exit. Indeed, I can't imagine living through\nit.\n\n", "I've seen solar battery boosters, and they seem to come without any\nguarantee. On the other hand, I've heard that some people use them\nwith success, although I have yet to communicate directly with such a\nperson. Have you tried one? What was your experience? How did you use\nit (occasional charging, long-term leave-it-for-weeks, etc.)?\n\n\t-- Robert Kennedy", "\nI know of at least one ftp-site from which you can download the cracks of\nabout any commercial game in existence. The names of the companies (yes,\ncompanies!) are also blatantly advertised with the crack codes. According to\nthem, it is not illegal (at least in the USA, according to a statute or \nsomething) to remove the copy protection from any program. The only condition\nis that you may only use this code on legally owned software for your own\nconvenience.\n\nIf there is any interest I will download the advertisement of one such \ncompany. I will not give the name of this ftp-site to anyone, even if only\nto protect the companies which wrote the original games.\n\nDISCLAIMER: I do not condone the use or cracking of any programs. I believe \nit hurts the industry and individuals in the long run.\n\nOn the subject of copy protection: Most pirates don't give a damn about \nusing software on which the name of the registered owner came up on starting \nthe program. They just don't have a conscience.", " ajteel@dendrite.cs.Colorado.EDU (A.J. Teel) writes...\n\n\n\nFine. If you think it's an expose of corruption and fraud, \nplease prevent a jury question. Don't just reassert your \nopening statement.\n\n\n\nNo indication that was what happened until now. Editing down is \nalways possible.\n\n\n\nIt would be interesting to hear who the responding parties are.\n\n\nFOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES ONLY:\n\nDon't let the IRS see this, Mr. Teel.\n\n\nAnd, as has been noted more times than we care to count, about as \nlikely to stand up in court as the twenty-seven eight by ten \ncolor glossy pictures the Stockbridge, Mass., police, took for \nuse as evidence against Arlo Guthrie. (As anyone who knows \nAlice's Restaurant is aware, he pleaded guilty to littering, was \nfined $50, and told to pick up the garbage.)\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\tDaniel Reitman\n\nHOW NOT TO WRITE A DEED\n\nOne case involved the construction of a conveyance to grantees \"jointly, as \ntenants in common, with equal rights and interest in said land, and to the \nsurvivor thereof, in fee simple. . . . To Have and to Hold the same unto the \nsaid parties hereto, equally, jointly, as tenants in common, with equal rights \nand interest for the period or term of their lives, and to the survivor thereof \nat the death of the other.\"", "I know this is the wrong newsgroup, but I was wondering if anyone \nknows the date(s) of this year's COMDEX convention in Atlanta,GA.\nOr has it passed already?? E-mail if possible. Thanks.\n", "Quite right, your batteries should be perfectly alright and retain\nmost of their charge if drained and dried well, but I'd throw out the\nelectrolyte and buy some more when you need it.\n\n\n And before anyone says I'm wrong, remember that new batteries almost\nalways come ready charged and dry, and they are perfectly OK even after\nseveral years' storage at the shop.", "\nRead it again yourself, then re-apply the admonition you gave to the\nprevious poster to yourself, as well. The first clause is not a condition,\nit is a reason for explicitly supporting the right WHICH EXISTS, MILITIA\nOR NOT, that the people have a right to keep and bear arms. This is\nNOT a right granted by the Constitution, it is a right presumed to exist\nby default. The Constitution mentioning a right is to prevent the\ngovernment from removing that right by stating very clearly the government\nshall NOT infringe (mess with, block, limit) that right. Remember the\nConstitution is a bunch of negative things - things the government CANNOT\ndo. All rights, etc not epxressly given to the government go to the\nstates and the PEOPLE (the same people the other 9 Amendments in the\nBill of Rights talk about).\n\nSince I am sure you will summarily reject my interpretation, I am\nappending a linguistic analysis by one far more expert than myself (and\nyou, I suspect). I am sure you will find his qualifications adequate.\nIf that isn't enough I can send you the Senate Subcommitee to the\nJudiciary on the Constitution report on the same thing... There are\nsome things in there that Big Brother types, like Biden, etc must have\nreally had to swallow hard to admit.\n\nI think you will find that people that seriously study the Constitution\nand state what it means will say the same thing. Those who come up\nwith 'new improved meanings' are those who are trying to subvert the\nConstitution for a given agenda. Like Clinton and his Clinton Cripple,\nGun Control, People Control, and Control Control, and the whole nasty\nmess.\n\nPlease tell us how this person is in error, won't you? (And please back it\nup with some proof, since I am backing my assertion up with independent\nproof, and have a BUNCH MORE I can provide...).\n\nNOTE: Followups set to talk.politics.guns\n\n--------- Begin included article -------\n\n\t\t\tTHE UNABRIDGED SECOND AMENDMENT\n\n\t\t\t by J. Neil Schulman\n\nIf you wanted to know all about the Big Bang, you'd ring up Carl Sagan,\nright ? And if you wanted to know about desert warfare, the man to call\nwould be Norman Schwarzkopf, no question about it. But who would you call\nif you wanted the top expert on American usage, to tell you the meaning\nof the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution ?\n\nThat was the question I asked A.C. Brocki, editorial coordinator of the Los\nAngeles Unified School District and formerly senior editor at Houghton\nMifflin Publishers -- who himself had been recommended to me as the\nforemost expert on English usage in the Los Angeles school system. Mr.\nBrocki told me to get in touch with Roy Copperud, a retired professor\njournalism at the University of Southern California and the author of\n\"American Usage and Style: The Consensus.\"\n\nA little research lent support to Brocki's opinion of Professor Copperud's\nexpertise.\n\nRoy Copperud was a newspaper writer on major dailies for over three decades\nbefore embarking on a a distinguished 17-year career teaching journalism at\nUSC. Since 1952, Copperud has been writing a column dealing with the\nprofessional aspects of journalism for \"Editor and Publisher\", a weekly\nmagazine focusing on the journalism field.\n\nHe's on the usage panel of the American Heritage Dictionary, and Merriam\nWebster's Usage Dictionary frequently cites him as an expert. Copperud's\nfifth book on usage, \"American Usage and Style: The Consensus,\" has been in\ncontinuous print from Van Nostrand Reinhold since 1981, and is the winner\nof the Association of American Publisher's Humanities Award.\n\nThat sounds like an expert to me.\n\nAfter a brief telephone call to Professor Copperud in which I introduced\nmyself but did not give him any indication of why I was interested, I sent\nthe following letter:\n\n\"I am writing you to ask you for your professional opinion as an expert in\nEnglish usage, to analyze the text of the Second Amendment to the United\nStates Constitution, and extract the intent from the text.\n\n\"The text of the Second Amendment is, 'A well-regulated Militia, being\nnecessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep\nand bear Arms, shall not be infringed.'\n\n\"The debate over this amendment has been whether the first part of the\nsentence, 'A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a\nfree State', is a restrictive clause or a subordinate clause, with respect\nto the independent clause containing the subject of the sentence, 'the\nright of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.'\n\n\"I would request that your analysis of this sentence not take into\nconsideration issues of political impact or public policy, but be restricted\nentirely to a linguistic analysis of its meaning and intent. Further,\nsince your professional analysis will likely become part of litigation\nregarding the consequences of the Second Amendment, I ask that whatever\nanalysis you make be a professional opinion that you would be willing to\nstand behind with your reputation, and even be willing to testify under\noath to support, if necessary.\"\n\nMy letter framed several questions about the test of the Second Amendment,\nthen concluded:\n\n\"I realize that I am asking you to take on a major responsibility and task\nwith this letter. I am doing so because, as a citizen, I believe it is\nvitally important to extract the actual meaning of the Second Amendment.\nWhile I ask that your analysis not be affected by the political importance of\nits results, I ask that you do this because of that importance.\"\n\nAfter several more letters and phone calls, in which we discussed terms for\nhis doing such an analysis, but in which we never discussed either of our\nopinions regarding the Second Amendment, gun control, or any other political\nsubject, Professor Copperud sent me the follow analysis (into which I have\ninserted my questions for the sake of clarity):\n\n[Copperud:] \"The words 'A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the\nsecurity of a free state,' contrary to the interpretation cited in your\nletter of July 26, 1991, constitutes a present participle, rather than a\nclause. It is used as an adjective, modifying 'militia,' which is\nfollowed by the main clause of the sentence (subject 'the right', verb\n'shall'). The to keep and bear arms is asserted as an essential for\nmaintaining a militia.\n\n\"In reply to your numbered questions:\n\n[Schulman:] \"(1) Can the sentence be interpreted to grant the right to keep\nand bear arms solely to 'a well-regulated militia'?\"\n\n[Copperud:] \"(1) The sentence does not restrict the right to keep and bear\narms, nor does it state or imply possession of the right elsewhere or by\nothers than the people; it simply makes a positive statement with respect\nto a right of the people.\"\n\n[Schulman:] \"(2) Is 'the right of the people to keep and bear arms' granted\nby the words of the Second Amendment, or does the Second Amendment assume a\npreexisting right of the people to keep and bear arms, and merely state\nthat such right 'shall not be infringed'?\"\n\n[Copperud:] \"(2) The right is not granted by the amendment; its existence\nis assumed. The thrust of the sentence is that the right shall be\npreserved inviolate for the sake of ensuring a militia.\"\n\n[Schulman:] \"(3) Is the right of the people to keep and bear arms\nconditioned upon whether or not a well regulated militia, is, in fact\nnecessary to the security of a free State, and if that condition is not\nexisting, is the statement 'the right of the people to keep and bear Arms,\nshall not be infringed' null and void?\"\n\n[Copperud:] \"(3) No such condition is expressed or implied. The right to\nkeep and bear arms is not said by the amendment to depend on the existence\nof a militia. No condition is stated or implied as to the relation of the\nright to keep and bear arms and to the necessity of a well-regulated\nmilitia as a requisite to the security of a free state. The right to keep\nand bear arms is deemed unconditional by the entire sentence.\"\n\n[Schulman:] \"(4) Does the clause 'A well-regulated Militia, being necessary\nto the security of a free State,' grant a right to the government to place\nconditions on the 'right of the people to keep and bear arms,' or is such\nright deemed unconditional by the meaning of the entire sentence?\"\n\n[Copperud:] \"(4) The right is assumed to exist and to be unconditional, as\npreviously stated. It is invoked here specifically for the sake of the\nmilitia.\"\n\n[Schulman:] \"(5) Which of the following does the phrase 'well-regulated\nmilitia' mean: 'well-equipped', 'well-organized,' 'well-drilled,'\n'well-educated,' or 'subject to regulations of a superior authority'?\"\n\n[Copperud:] \"(5) The phrase means 'subject to regulations of a superior\nauthority;' this accords with the desire of the writers for civilian\ncontrol over the military.\"\n\n[Schulman:] \"(6) (If at all possible, I would ask you to take account the\nchanged meanings of words, or usage, since that sentence was written 200\nyears ago, but not take into account historical interpretations of the\nintents of the authors, unless those issues can be clearly separated.\"\n\n[Copperud:] \"To the best of my knowledge, there has been no change in the\nmeaning of words or in usage that would affect the meaning of the\namendment. If it were written today, it might be put: \"Since a\nwell-regulated militia is necessary tot he security of a free state, the\nright of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged.'\n\n[Schulman:] \"As a 'scientific control' on this analysis, I would also\nappreciate it if you could compare your analysis of the text of the Second\nAmendment to the following sentence,\n\n\"A well-schooled electorate, being necessary to the security of a free\nState, the right of the people to keep and read Books, shall not be\ninfringed.'\n\n\"My questions for the usage analysis of this sentence would be,\n\n\"(1) Is the grammatical structure and usage of this sentence and the way\nthe words modify each other, identical to the Second Amendment's sentence?;\nand\n\n\"(2) Could this sentence be interpreted to restrict 'the right of the people\nto keep and read Books' _only_ to 'a well-educated electorate' -- for\nexample, registered voters with a high-school diploma?\"\n\n[Copperud:] \"(1) Your 'scientific control' sentence precisely parallels the\namendment in grammatical structure.\n\n\"(2) There is nothing in your sentence that either indicates or implies the\npossibility of a restricted interpretation.\"\n\nProfessor Copperud had only one additional comment, which he placed in his\ncover letter: \"With well-known human curiosity, I made some speculative\nefforts to decide how the material might be used, but was unable to reach\nany conclusion.\"\n\nSo now we have been told by one of the top experts on American usage what\nmany knew all along: the Constitution of the United States unconditionally\nprotects the people's right to keep and bear arms, forbidding all\ngovernments formed under the Constitution from abridging that right.\n\nAs I write this, the attempted coup against constitutional government in the\nSoviet Union has failed, apparently because the will of the people in that\npart of the world to be free from capricious tyranny is stronger than the\nold guard's desire to maintain a monopoly on dictatorial power.\n\nAnd here in the United States, elected lawmakers, judges, and appointed\nofficials who are pledged to defend the Constitution of the United States\nignore, marginalize, or prevaricate about the Second Amendment routinely.\nAmerican citizens are put in American prisons for carrying arms, owning\narms of forbidden sorts, or failing to satisfy bureaucratic requirements\nregarding the owning and carrying of firearms -- all of which is an\nabridgement of the unconditional right of the people to keep and bear arms,\nguaranteed by the Constitution.\n\nAnd even the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), staunch defender of the\nrest of the Bill of Rights, stands by and does nothing.\n\nit seems it is up to those who believe in the right to keep and bear arms to\npreserve that right. no one else will. No one else can. Will we beg our\nelected representatives not to take away our rights, and continue regarding\nthem as representing us if they do? Will we continue obeying judges who\ndecide that the Second Amendment doesn't mean what it says it means but\nmeans whatever they say it means in their Orwellian doublespeak ?\n\nOr will be simply keep and bear the arms of our choice, as the Constitution\nof the United States promises us we can, and pledge that we will defend\nthat promise with our lives, our fortuned, and our sacred honor ?\n\n(C) 1991 by The New Gun Week and Second Amendment Foundation.\nInformational reproduction of the entire article is hereby authorized\nprovided the author, The New Gun Week and Second Amendment Foundation are\ncredited. All other rights reserved.\n\n\t\t\tAbout the Author\n\nJ. Neil Schulman is the award-winning author of novels endorsed by Anthony\nBurgess and Nobel-economist Milton Friedman, and writer of the CBS \"Twilight\nZone\" episode in which a time-traveling historian prevents the JFK\nassassination. He's also the founder and president of SoftServ Publishing,\nthe first publishing company to distribute \"paperless books\" via personal\ncomputers and modems.\n\nMost recently, Schulman has founded the Committee to Enforce the Second\nAmendment (CESA), through which he intends to see the individual's right to\nkeep and bear arms recognized as a constitutional protection equal to those\nafforded in the First, Fourth, Fifth, Ninth and Fourteenth amendments.\n\n------------- End included article --------\n\nCan you still honestly say the Second is a 'State-Run militia only right'?\n", "Hi,", "\n/(hudson)\n/If all morality were relative- big hairy deal.\n\nAs I said, you appear to be the only person saying that all morality\nis relative. Most people I know do hold some absolutes in their\nmoral system.\n\nI >>personally<< believe that the dignity of the individual and the right\nof free will are absolutes. I recognize that there are some moral\nsystems around which don't accept this; I reject them as dangerous\nand anti-social (nazism, some forms of communism, fundamentalist\nxtianity--no, that's not a slam). But for the most part, almost\nevery moral system agrees on these two points.\n\n\n\n\n(me)\n\n\n/(hudson)\n/Generally, Christians believe in a Creator-Creation distinction. Other\n/religions believe in one big whole. I don't accept yor premises.\n\nToo bad. I know I'm right, so I get to enforce my view upon you whether\nyou like my premise or not. And since you can't prove otherwise, there\nisn't even an intellectual basis for your resistance to accepting my\nviewpoint.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n/(hudson)\n/I don't think so. once morality becomes relative, it degenerates. I am\n/saying that reasoning that it is generally evil to hurt other people is bad.\n/(though I don't think it is sufficient.) \n\n\nWell, then answer me this: you seem to be opposed to moral relativism\n(as you call it) because it has the capacity to degenerate. Obviously,\nthen, you would advocate a nonrelative (absolute) moral system.\n\nWhose absolutist moral system do we choose? \n\nHow do we come to this decision?\n\nWhat about people who disagree with the chosen moral system?\n\n\n\n\n\n/(hudson)\n/But if morality is considered to\n/be relative, and this rule isn't based on anything, but is just an arbitrary\n/rule, people might abandon it.\n\nFine. I can agree with most of what you typed here. However, just because\nmorality gets based on something nonrelative does NOT mean that we have to\npick your xtianity as its base.", "\nIf you're doing large-scale satellite servicing, being able to do it in\na pressurized hangar makes considerable sense. The question is whether\nanyone is going to be doing large-scale satellite servicing in the near\nfuture, to the point of justifying development of such a thing.\n\n\nYou'd almost certainly use air. Given that you have to pressurize with\n*something*, safety considerations strongly suggest making it breathable\n(even if the servicing crew is using oxygen masks for normal breathing,\nto avoid needing a ventilation system, it's nice if the hangar atmosphere\nis breathable in a pinch -- it makes mask functioning much less critical).", "\n\n\n\tThey did the rollout already??!? I am going to have to pay more\nattention to the news. Are any of the gifs headed for wuarchive??\n \n\nPatrick\n\n", "It is usually possible to reach people at IKI (Institute for Space\nResearch) in Moscow by writing to\n\n\tIKIMAIL@esoc1.bitnet\n\nThis is a machine at ESA in Darmstadt, Germany; IKI has a dedicated\nphone line to this machine and someone there logs in regularly to\nretrieve mail.\n\nIn addition, there are several user accounts belonging to Russian\nscientific institutions on\n\n\t@sovam.com\n\nwhich is a commercial enterprise based in San Francisco that provides\nemail services to the former USSR. For example, fian@sovam.com is the\n\"PHysics Institute of the Academy of Sciences\" (initials transliterated\nfrom Russian, of course). These connections cost the Russians real\ndollars, even for *received* messages, so please don't send anything\nvoluminous or frivilous.\n\n=====================================================================\nLarry R. D'Addario\nNational Radio Astronomy Observatory", "\n#In mcclary@netcom.com (Michael McClary)\n# Just thought I'd clear up a few of the murky areas...\n#\n#>Actually, after surviving being driven out of Nauvoo, and later Carthage,\n#>the Mormons DID fortify Utah. They still arm themselves to \"defend the\n#>faith\", and stockpile food as well. They have been involved in quite a\n#>lot of illegal activity - including multiple (and often underage) wives\n#>for the leaders - a practice still in vogue with some splinters of their\n#>sect. The parallels between Koresh and Joseph Smith are striking.\n# ^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nBy \"they,\" you mean the leaders of the lds church? I grant you that when\nJoseph Smith was still alive, plenty of \"accusations\" were filed, most of\nwhich had little bearing with reality, as evidenced by various verdicts.\nI have studied lds history for 15 years now, and I have yet to see prove\nthat the lds leadership was involved, in quote: \"illegal activities.\"\nPlural marriage, yes, but your charge of \"underage\" wives sounds like it\ncould have originated from a tabloid, and discredits the high moral\nstandards which characterized these leaders and families, unlike, as it\nappears, those of David Koresh.\n\n# Joseph Smith started the sect. After he and his brother Hyram\n#were murdered in a Nauvoo, Il. jail cell, church membership split over\n#who to follow. Initially, Smith was considered a prophet (just like\n#Mohammed, a rather interesting parallel considering Muslims consider\n#Christ to be a prophet the same as Jews, I'm led to understand. Make\n#no mistake, this was no messiah we're talking about in Smith). The\n\nAnd neither did he claim he was. As the church reflects the moral\naptitude of its leaders (and especially those of Joseph Smith), I have\nnothing but the highest respect for this inspired man, whose only \"crime\"\nwas that he refused to deny that he had seen a vision... Many have tried\nto explain the \"Smith phenomenon\" away, but the bold presence of an 8.5\nmillion member strong church stands as a witness that Joseph Smith's\ntestimony had enough resilience and power to carry on the message.\n\n#thought at the time was that the gift of prophecy was to be handed\n#down father to son. After Joseph Smith died, his son was only\n#entering his teens. Brigham Young and a few others claimed to have\n#been bequeathed the gift and leadership prior to his death. The\n#Council of Twelve, the Church governing body, wasn't of much help\n#here, and this basic conflict is still a wedge between the sects.\n#Brigham Young took his followers to Salt Lake. The rest waited\n#for Smith Jr. to grow up enough to assume leadership. The other\n#claimants to the leadership were soon ignored, like Mike Dukakis. ;-)\n\n\"The rest\" were apostates and excommunicated members of the Church,\nwhile the great majority of the membership, the Twelve, and the various\nauxiliary organizations, chose to accept Brigham Young as the new\nprophet and leader of the Church. If you knew your lds scriptures and\ndoctrine, you would have known that Brigham Young was the FIRST in\nline to fill the prophet Joseph Smith's vacancy: he was the senior\napostle in the Quorum, and various comments made by Joseph indicated\nthat it was Brigham who would lead the latter-day exodus to the West.\n\nOther rightful \"heirs\" were either dead (Hyrum Smith) or excommunicated\n(Oliver Cowdery), and while persecutions abounded and intensified,\nJoseph Smith had already given orders to look for a new place, an empty\nland beyond the boundaries of the United States (at that time). This\n\"Rekhabite\" principle (pseudographia) was well understood and antipated\nby the great majority of lds faithful, and was not questioned by them.\n\nGranted, a couple of \"do-it-yourselfers\" stayed behind, unwilling to\nsacrifice and to undertake the perilous journey to the unknown, but\nthis also was necessary to separate the tares from the wheat. The\nchurch benefitted from this purification process: they became even\nmore unified and willing to carry out their mission to the world.\n\n# Both sects practiced the \"1-year food stockpile\" doctrine,\n#and this being frontier and farming country most carried or at\n#least owned weapons. There is little evidence that they were a\n#militaristic sect, given that they tended to move on rather than\n#face large-scale opposition. Brigham Young, having suffered a\n#great deal getting to Salt Lake, seems to have been quite\n#justified in making military training a good thing. Remember,\n#this was far beyond where even the US Army went, and these people\n#had nobody to turn to save themselves.\n#\n# Just a little context to put this all in perspective.\n\nBTW, since when is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (one of\nthe largest denominations in the country) a \"sect\"??? It didn't \"splinter\"\nfrom any other religion, as did say, the Southern Baptists or Methodists.\n\n#>So what did the Mormons get? It seems that J. Edgar Hoover was very\n#>impressed with the way they kept secrets. (They're pledged to defend\n#>secrets with their lives and atone for sin with blood. Many actually\n#>do - even to the point of suicide.)\n\nWhat a balloney. Suicide is sinful and against the law of God. I am\nnot comfortable with this alleged \"cosiness\" with Mammon: I assure you\nthat *many* among us reject this attitude categorically. Period. Our\nONLY true allegiance is to our God and to the leaders which He has\nappointed to represent Him. In any regard, to read this TRASH (about\nsuicide and \"atone for sins with blood\") is yet another insulting\nmisrepresentation of what my church believes in and stands for...\n\n#\n# The RLDS, the Reorganized LDS, are friendly rivals of the LDS\n#and delight in telling stories about them, which generates quick retorts\n#from the LDS members and everybody has a grand time. At no time have\n#I ever even heard this hinted at. I'm taking it with a salt block.\n\nMake it a really big salt mountain with a glacier on top.\n\n#> So he hired virtually no one but\n#>Mormons, until the FBI was almost exclusively staffed by members of the\n#>Church of Later Day Saints. Though J. Edgar is finally gone, the FBI\n#>personnel (especially the field agents) are still heavily Mormon.\n#>I have often wondered how this might affect the FBI's treatment\n#>of religious organizations a Mormon would consider heretical.\n\nPreposterous. Even if this were true (reliable data, please), I\nam convinced that those officers would perform to the highest codes\nof honor and conduct (that's why they were selected for in the\nfirst place, remember?). Besides, one of our Articles of Faith\nSTRONGLY states the principle of freedom of religion, and that all\npeople are free to worship \"*how*, *where*, or *what* they may.\"\n\n# If it's true, there would be little affect. LDS and RLDS\n#philosophy is that all other religions have strayed from the true\n#Church as set down by Jesus, but that God will judge each on his\n#own merits. In addition, the RLDS also contend (and the LDS may\n#as well) that ignorance of the True Way (tm) is an excuse. You\n#can only be condemned if you had been tought the way and rejected\n#it. In short, LDS and RLDS suffer everybody from Lutherans to\n#Buddhists, secure in the knowledge that though they are wrong they\n#will not be penalized for ignorance. It is more likely that Hoover\n#liked them because of their rather strict upbringings which forbade\n#alcohol, tobacco, hot drink (like coffee or tea), and the like.\n#These people are the \"salt of the Earth\" and as such are more\n#easily made to follow orders and have few vices to be used against them.\n\nA good explanation, I can accept that. You are right that lds people\nare sometimes a little too cosy with Mammon's \"orders\" (the late\npresident Kimball, for example, was an exception with his strong\nopposition of the selection of the MX \"Peace Keeper\" missile maze\nin Utah).\n\n# That's my somewhat educated guess, anyway. Both sects have\n#splinter groups that don't mirror the masses, but these are small\n#and rare, and hardly worth noting their common ancestry.\n#\n# None of this has any relevance to guns, though. When a\n#man's religion is used to deny him the right of self-protection with\n#the weapons suitable for the job, he'll find an ally in me.\n#\n#< Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu >\n#< ISU only censors what I read, not what I say. Don't blame them. >\n#< USENET: Post to exotic, distant machines. Meet exciting, >\n#< unusual people. And flame them. >\n", "Since 1979, the members of the European Parliament (the parliamentary assemby\nof the European Community) have been elected directly by the citizens of the\nMember States. Before, the Members of the European Parliament (MEPs) were just\nMembers of National Parliaments (MNPs) elected by and from among their peers.\n\nIn the European Parliament, every Member State has a fixed number of seats,\nwhich increases less than proportionally with the population. Once in five\nyears, a general European election is being held, in which the citizens of all\nMember States choose their representatives to the European Parliament. Next\nelections are due in 1994.\n\nNow the voting system for these European elections still differs from one\ncountry to another. Although the European Treaty enabling the direct election\nof the MEPs requires a uniform voting system, up to now every country has just\nused its own system, more or less the same one used for national elections.\nBritish MEPs are elected in a first-past-the-post system with one MEP per\ndistrict; nearly all other States have chosen a system with proportional\nrepresentation. But then in some countries (France, Italy) MEPs are allowed to\nbe a MNP as well, whilst in others they are not (Belgium, Netherlands).\n\nThe European Parliament is now working on a uniform election system for its\nown members, so that every candidate should have the same regulations to\ncomply with, regardless of the Member State (s)he wants to be elected for. I\nwould like to know what you people out there think of the following questions:\n\n1. Do you think it is necessary to have uniform regulations or should every\nMember State continue to use its own regulations (for European elections that\nis)?\n\n2. Do you think a system of majority voting should be implemented, with one or\nmore MEPs per district, or would you prefer a system with proportional\nrepresentation (for the whole of the Community or per state, per region, per\ndistrict?).\n\n3. Do you think the European Commission (or just its president) should be\ndirectly elected too, or should it be appointed by the European Parliament, or\nby the joint Member State governments as it is now?\n\n4. The Maastricht Treaty allows subjects of Member States to stand for\nelection in another Member State they are residing in. Do you think you would\nor could vote for a foreigner if his/her ideas appeal to you?\n\n5. Do you think MEPs should be allowed to be a member of a national parliament\nor a regional parliament too? Or a member of a national or regional government\nbody?\n\n6. The European Parliament now has meetings in both Strasbourg and Brussels.\nMEPs themselves are for a complete move to Brussels in great majority, but\npolitical compromises between the governments of the Member States stick to\nthe status quo. Do you approve of this or do you think the European Parliament\nshould meet in one city only, and if yes, which?\n\nPlease post your answers to eunet.politics, to which all followups are\nautomatically directed. If you do not have access to that group, please mail\nyour answer directly to me and I will post it for you.\n\nI hope many of you will take the time to post their views on this matter.", "I'm wondering if I can tote my American touch tone phone around with me\nto Sweden and Germany. It's DC powered, and I can buy a special adapter\nfor that in Europe. The question is if the general electronics work\nthe same. I can buy a different wall plug and refit it (I'm sure I'd\nhave to), but would that do the trick?", "\n\n\nWe're having to associate with you against our will. This is fascism! \n\nYou don't have to associate with anyone against your will. Go live in a\ncave. We won't miss you.\n\nDrewcifer\n\n", "\n(about my reply)\n\n\nIt a society that is constantly on the verge of flaming, Usenet, diplomacy\nis the best way to ensure the voice of reason gets through, isn't it?\n\n\nKevin, unfortunately you are now delving into field I know too little\nabout, algorithms. Your reasoning, as I see it, is very much along the\nlines of Roger Penrose, who claimed that mathematical 'insight' cannot\nbe algorithmic in his book _The emperor's new mind: Concerning\ncomputers, minds, and the laws of physics_. However, Penrose's\nclaim that he _has_ mathematical insight, or your similar claim\nthat wavefunctions collapse only when we consciously take a look,\ncould be just illusions.\n\nWe are obviouslu taking very different viewpoints - I try to ponder\non the problem of consciousness from an evolutionary perspective,\nrealising that it might not be anything special, but certainly\nuseful. Thinking back of what I wrote, do you think worms have minds\nor not? They are able to experience pain, at least they behave \njust like that. Yet it is conceivable that we might some day\nin the future perform a \"total synthesis of C. elegans\" from\nthe elements. Would such a worm have a mind?\n\n\nThis is true to some extent. However, I do not think that our brains\nwork like computers, at all. In fact, there is substantial evidence\n(Skarda, 1985; Skarda & Freeman 1987) that brains work more or less\nchaotically, generating enough randomness for mental states to evolve.\nOur brains work much like genetic algorithm generators, I suppose.\n\n\nIndeed, this is extremely unlikely, given the vast impact of nurture\non our mind and brain. I suggest, however, that before trying to\nunderstand our consciousness as a collection of algorithms. \n\nKevin, take a look at the references I mentioned, and think again.\nI still think the best experts on the nature of a conscious mind\nare neurologists, neuropsychologists and biologists (but do not \nflame me for my opinions), since they study beings that are\nconscious. \n\nThe reason I am repeating my advice is that this discussion cannot\nlead to anywhere if our backgrounds are too different.\n\nAnd please, do not bring QM into this discussion at all - not\nall physicists are happy with the claim that our consciousness\nplays some special role in physics. I would say it doesn't.\n\n\nAgain, _brains are not computers_. Don't forget this. This does not\nmean they need something else to work - they just work differently.\nTheir primary 'purpose' is perception and guidance of action, \nself-awareness and high intelligence are later appearances.\n\n\nYou are still expecting that we could find the idea of 'green' in\nour brains somewhere, perhaps in the form of some chemical. This is\nnot how I see it. The sensation 'green' is a certain time-dependent\npattern in the area V4 of our visual cortex, and it is distributed\nwith the help of areas V1 and V2 to the rest of the brain. \n\nIndeed, a firing pattern. I have sometimes thought of our consciousness\nas a global free induction pattern of these local firing patterns,\nbut this is just idle speculation.\n\nScientific American's September 1992 issue was a special issue on\nmind and brain. Have you already read it from cover to cover? ;-)\nThere are two articles on visual perception, so you might be \ninterested.\n\nBut again, please note that subjective experiences cannot be \nobserved from a third-person perspective. If we see nothing but \nneuronal activity, we cannot go on to conclude that this is not the\nmind.\n\nKalat (1988) writes about numerous examples where electric stimulation\nof different areas of brain have led to various changes in the \npatients' state of mind. For instance, a patient whose septal area\nwas stimulated (without his knowledge) by remote control during\na psychiatric interview was quickly cured of his depression, and\nstarted discussing a plan to seduce his girlfriend.\n\nStimulations in the temporal lobe have sometimes led to embarrassing\nsituations, when the patients have started flirting with the\ntherapist.\n\nIn conclusion, there is evidence that\n\n1) brains are essentially necessary for subjective experiences, \n brain damage is usually equivalent to some sort of mind damage\n\n2) conscious processes involve substantial brain activity in\n various areas of brain - when we think of colours, our\n visual cortex is activated etc.\n\n3) consciousness is an afterthought - we become conscious of our\n actions with a half a second delay, and our brains are ahead\n of our 'conscious will' by at least 350 ms. \n\nThus, I think it is fruitful to turn the question \"Why do 'I' see\ncolours\" around and ask \"What is this 'I' that seems to be \nobserving?\", since it seems that our conscious mind is not\nthe king of our brains.\n\n\nThis depends on what is meant by 'seeing colours'. Does a neural\nnetwork that is capable of recognising handwritten numbers from\n0 to 9 see the numbers, if it is capable of sorting them?\n\nIf you are asking, \"why does an animal who is conscious of itself\nas an observer have an evolutionary advantage over an animal who\ndoesn't\", I have a good answer - read my previous posting,\nwhere I wrote why a sense of identity helps social animals to swap\nroles and act more morally, so that they don't unconsciously\nkill each other with newly discovered weapons. (A bit extreme,\nbut this is the basic idea.)\n\nWhen early _Homo_ became more and more efficient in using tools, \na sense of identity and the concept of 'self' had to evolve in\nline with this development. Indeed, respect for others and \nconscious altruistic behaviour might be evolutionary advantages\nfor social animals, such as early humans. \n\n\nIf minds are required for this, does this mean that until human\nminds came to the scene, wavefunctions never collapsed, but remained\nin the superpositions for aeons? My, how powerful we are.\n\nThis has been discussed before, and I think this topic is irrelevant,\nsince we do not agree that minds are necessary, and neither do\nphysicists. \n\n\nI agree, but not in the sense you apparently mean above - physics\nneeds sharp minds to solve many real problems. ;-)\n\n\nIt's OK, if you don't forget to take with you the references I\nwrote about in my previous posting, plus the following:\n\nKalat, James W. (1988): Biological Psychology.\n3rd ed., Wadsworth Publishing Company, Belmont, CA 1988.\n\nSkarda, C. (1985): Explaining behavior: Bringing the brain back in.\nInquiry 29:187-202.\n\nSkarda, C. & Freeman, W. (1987): How brains make chaos in order to\nmake sense of the world. \nBehavioral and Brain Sciences 10:161-173.\n\nPetri\n", "\n\nSpecifically, which changes are you talking about? Are you arguing\nthat the motto is interpreted as offensive by a larger portion of the\npopulation now than 40 years ago?", "\nMr. Oguocha,\n \"Muslims\" in the Bosnian context are in fact \"Turks\"... In fact, correct\n me if I am wrong, Serbs are attacking Bosnians with their battle cries\n \"Death to the Turks!\". \n\n Is this so shocking? Years of communism apparently suppressed their \n hatred and anger towards the Turks. But such hatred is obviously one that\n dies hard. \n \n Serbs must understand, Turks are no longer the good old barbarians world\n has come to know by propaganda after propaganda. \n \n Serbs must further understand that barbarism does not work. \n \n Serbs must even further understand that barbarism would one day have\n to face counter-barbarism. So, I urge those people [Serbs] to stop\n killing Bosnian women and children. And they must never forget that\n Turks in the motherland are watching...patiently.\n \n Cordially,", "(Book Review):\n \n \n \"THE UNIVERSE OF MOTION\", by Dewey B. Larson, 1984, North \n Pacific Publishers, Portland, Oregon, 456 pages, indexed, \n hardcover. \n \n\n \"THE UNIVERSE OF MOTION\" contains FINAL SOLUTIONS to \n most ALL astrophysical mysteries. \n \n This book is Volume III of a revised and enlarged \n edition of \"THE STRUCTURE OF THE PHYSICAL UNIVERSE\", 1959. \n Volume I is \"NOTHING BUT MOTION\" (1979), and Volume II is \n \"THE BASIC PROPERTIES OF MATTER\" (1988). \n \n Most books and journal articles on the subject of \n astrophysics are bristling with integrals, partial \n differentials, and other FANCY MATHEMATICS. In this book, by \n contrast, mathematics is conspicuous by its absence, except \n for some relatively simple formulas imbedded in the text. \n Larson emphasizes CONCEPTS and declares that mathematical \n agreement with a theory does NOT guarantee its conceptual \n validity. \n \n Dewey B. Larson was a retired engineer with a Bachelor \n of Science Degree in Engineering Science from Oregon State \n University. He developed the Theory described in his books \n while trying to find a way to MATHEMATICALLY CALCULATE the \n properties of chemical compounds based ONLY on the elements \n they contain. \n \n \"THE UNIVERSE OF MOTION\" describes the astrophysical \n portions of Larson's CONSISTENT, INTEGRATED, COMPREHENSIVE, \n GENERAL UNIFIED Theory of the physical universe, a kind of \n \"grand unified field theory\" that orthodox physicists and \n astro-physicists CLAIM to be looking for. It is built on two \n postulates about the physical and mathematical nature of \n space and time: \n \n (1) The physical universe is composed ENTIRELY of ONE \n component, MOTION, existing in THREE dimensions, in DISCRETE \n units, and with two RECIPROCAL aspects, SPACE and TIME. \n \n (2) The physical universe conforms to the relations of \n ORDINARY COMMUTATIVE mathematics, its primary magnitudes are \n ABSOLUTE, and its geometry is EUCLIDEAN. \n \n From these two postulates, Larson was able to build a \n COMPLETE theoretical universe, from photons and subatomic \n particles to the giant elliptical galaxies, by combining the \n concept of INWARD AND OUTWARD SCALAR MOTIONS with \n translational, vibrational, rotational, and rotational-\n vibrational motions. At each step in the development, he was \n able to match parts of his theoretical universe with \n corresponding parts in the real physical universe, including \n EVEN THINGS NOT YET DISCOVERED. For example, in his 1959 \n book, he first predicted the existence of EXPLODING GALAXIES, \n several years BEFORE astronomers started finding them. They \n are a NECESSARY CONSEQUENCE of his comprehensive Theory. And \n when quasars were discovered, he had a related explanation \n ready for those also. \n \n As a result of his theory, which he called \"THE \n RECIPROCAL SYSTEM\", Larson TOTALLY REJECTED many of the \n sacred doctrines of orthodox physicists and astrophysicists, \n including black holes, neutron stars, degenerate matter, \n quantum wave mechanics (as applied to atomic structure), \n \"nuclear\" physics, general relativity, relativistic mass \n increases, relativistic Doppler shifts, nuclear fusion in \n stars, and the big bang, all of which he considered to be \n nothing more than MATHEMATICAL FANTASIES. He was very \n critical of the AD HOC assumptions, uncertainty principles, \n solutions in principle, \"no other way\" declarations, etc., \n used to maintain them. \n \n \"THE UNIVERSE OF MOTION\" is divided into 31 chapters. \n It begins with a description of how galaxies are built from \n the gravitational attraction between globular star clusters, \n which are formed from intergalactic gas and dust clouds that \n accumulate from the decay products of cosmic rays coming in \n from the ANTI-MATTER HALF of the physical universe. (Galaxy \n formation from the MYTHICAL \"big bang\" is a big mystery to \n orthodox astronomers.) He then goes on to describe life \n cycles of stars and how binary and multiple star systems and \n solar systems result from Type I supernova explosions of \n SINGLE stars. \n \n Several chapters are devoted to quasars which, according \n to Larson, are densely-packed clusters of stars that have \n been ejected from the central bulges of exploding galaxies \n and are actually traveling FASTER THAN THE SPEED OF LIGHT \n (although most of that speed is AWAY FROM US IN TIME). \n \n Astronomers and astrophysicists who run up against \n observations that contradict their theories would find \n Larson's explanations quite valuable if considered with an \n OPEN MIND. For example, they used to believe that GAMMA RAY \n BURSTS originated from pulsars, which exist primarily in the \n plane or central bulge of our galaxy. But the new gamma ray \n telescope in earth orbit observed that the bursts come from \n ALL DIRECTIONS UNIFORMLY and do NOT correspond with any \n visible objects, (except for a few cases of directional \n coincidence). Larson's explanation is that the gamma ray \n bursts originate from SUPERNOVA EXPLOSIONS in the ANTI-MATTER \n HALF of the physical universe, which Larson calls the \"cosmic \n sector\". Because the anti-matter universe exists in a \n RECIPROCAL RELATION to our material universe, with the speed \n of light as the BOUNDARY between them, and has THREE \n dimensions of time and ONLY ONE dimension of space, the \n bursts can pop into our material universe ANYWHERE seemingly \n at random. \n \n Larson heavily quotes or paraphrases statements from \n books, journal articles, and leading physicists and \n astronomers. In this book, 351 of them are superscripted \n with numbers identifying entries in the reference list at the \n end of the book. For example, a quote from the book \n \"Astronomy: The Cosmic Journey\", by William K. Hartmann, \n says, \"Our hopes of understanding all stars would brighten if \n we could explain exactly how binary and multiple stars \n form.... Unfortunately we cannot.\" Larson's book contains \n LOGICAL CONSISTENT EXPLANATIONS of such mysteries that are \n WORTHY OF SERIOUS CONSIDERATION by ALL physicists, \n astronomers, and astrophysicists. \n\n\n For more information, answers to your questions, etc., \n please consult my CITED SOURCES (Larson's BOOKS). \n\n\n UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this \n IMPORTANT Book Review is ENCOURAGED. \n", "\n\n\nGood question. It's my impression, not backed by evidence, that general\nsouth-of-the-borderness seems to exempt one from the hiring-firing effect\nI was talking about. \n\nBack in the 20's there were some attempts to hire black Cuban ballplayers; \nthey were rejected by the commissioner and others.\n\n\n\n\nWell, what *did* I mean to say? Aside from some short-lived exceptions\nsuch as Japanese internment in WW II, only blacks were affected by laws\nregarding: slavery, Jim Crow, miscegenation, military service, etc. If\nmy claim of exclusivity is not 100% airtight, that is, if you can come\nup with this or that exception, fine -- have a cookie. But compared to\nthis list, no other racial group put up with a legal onslaught worth\ndiscussing at length.", " Stupid me. I believed the Democrats stood for principles of personal\n privacy while it was the Neanderthal Republicans that wanted into every\n aspect of our lives. \n Clinton is just more clever than the other guy. Looks like gun control for\n privacy technology. One small step at a time.\n\nRemember \"Defend Firearms - Defeat Dukakis\", followed by Bush's soon-after-\nelection support for gun-control? This is the Democrats' version\n\"Defend Free Speech - Reject Republicans\" followed by speech control.\n\n Wait a minute.... Let me think about this.\n\n Hmmm, I feel better now. I believe the White House when they tell us\n this first step is, in fact, the final step. All is OK. We've nothing to fear.\n They're here to help us. God bless America.\n \nHey, like the grrreat J.R. \"Bob\" Dobbs says, you've got to pull the\nwool over your *own* eyes!\n", "not only is it improper etiquette AND illegal but the people who\nare responsible for junk mailings are *EVIL*!!!!\n\n", "\nNo, it's a sign of aristocrtic out-of-touchness with the middle\nclass. You ask George Herbert Walker Bush about that.\n\nAnd that's not his full name? What, then, is it?\n\n---\n\"Even Quayle had his honeymoon period. It lasted a full 48 hours \nafter he was chosen as Bush's running mate.\"\n", "I am currently writing a paper on computer protocols security. I would \nappreciate your help. I currently have no insight into these topics except\nthat they relate to security in multilevel security network. Please semd me\nany references, books, FAQs or contact persons names and Internet addresses.\nThe topics I am interested in:\n1. The \"firewall gateway model\" as implemented in Internet gateways.\n2. Kerberos Authentication Service\n\nPlease send me a private e-mail at eldar@sfu.ca and/or post it on the board.\n\nThanks a lot,", " \n\nNo, I say religious law applies to those who are categorized as\nbelonging to the religion when event being judged applies. This\nprevents situations in which someone is a member of a religion\nwho, when charged, claims that he/she was _not_ a member of the\nreligion so they are free to go on as if nothing had happened.\n\n", "\n\nActually, both numbers are correct. The difference is in the direction\nof the acceleration. For pilots, accelerations tend to be transverse to\nthe direction you're facing (pulling out from a steep dive, the\nacceleration will force blood toward your feet, for instance). In this\ncase, you can only put up with about 8 g's even with a pressure suit. \n\nThe record for acceleration, though, is measured along \"the direction\nyou're facing\" (for lack of a better term). As I recall, this record\nwas set in rocket sleds back in the 60's -- and was about 40 g's or so.", "The White House\n\n\n Office of the Press Secretary\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------\nFor Immediate Release April 23, 1993\n\n\n\n Background Information:\n\n Advancing U.S. Relations \n with Russia and the other New Independent States \n\n April 23, 1993\n\n\nAt the Vancouver summit, President Clinton and President Yeltsin \nagreed to pursue a number of measures designed to implement an \neconomic and strategic partnership between the U.S. and Russia. \nSince then, President Clinton has directed that a number of steps \nbe taken to move this process forward. The Administration is \nannouncing a number of steps today in order to underscore its \ndeep commitment to a new and closer partnership with Russia based \non its government's commitment to reform.\n\n\nExecutive Review of Cold War Laws\n\nPresident Clinton and President Yeltsin discussed the \ndesirability of reviewing and updating U.S. laws and regulations \nto reflect the end of the Cold War. Congress has already acted \nto revise many laws to reflect the fact that a communist Soviet \nUnion has been replaced by a democratic Russia and other \nindependent states. However, many laws and regulations remain \nthat contain language and restrictions that fail to reflect the \nend of the Cold War and that unnecessarily undermine relations \nwith Russia and the other new independent states.\n\nThe President today has ordered an Executive review of laws and \nregulations so that, where appropriate and consistent with U.S. \nsecurity and other national interests, such provisions can be \nrevised or removed. He has asked Ambassador-at-large Strobe \nTalbott to coordinate this review on an expedited basis. The \nPresident has indicated that he will welcome congressional \nefforts to help this review proceed as quickly as possible.\n\nThis review will weigh all considerations that pertain to \nrevision of such provisions, and the initiation of the review may \nhelp to remedy some of the circumstances that have justified such \nprovisions in the past. For example, because the Russians are \neager to have their status changed under the Jackson-Vanik \nlegislation, President Yeltsin personally assured President \nClinton in Vancouver that he would look into individual cases \ninvolving continuing restrictions on emigration from Russia. By \naddressing such issues, this review can help strengthen the bonds \nof trust and partnership between the U.S. and Russia, and between\nthe U.S. and the other new independent states.\n\n\nReview of COCOM\n\nIt is also time to consider expeditiously with America's allies \nthe future of another Cold War institution -- the Coordinating \nCommittee for Multilateral Export Controls (COCOM). The United \nStates has begun a thorough review of how to reorient export \ncontrols to the post-Cold War world, in which Russia is no longer \nviewed as a potential adversary, but as a potential ally in \ncombatting the proliferation of sensitive technology.\n\nSteps to Improve the Security Relationship\n\nThe President also has taken steps to move ahead on a range of \nefforts discussed in Vancouver that can strengthen U.S. security \nand improve our security relationship with the Russians and the \nother states.\n\n\nAccelerated Deactivation of Nuclear Weapons\n\nIn Vancouver, the two Presidents discussed accelerating the \nprocess of deactivating nuclear strategic systems scheduled for \nelimination under the START I Treaty. President Clinton has \ndirected the Department of Defense to complete this process well \nin advance of the seven year reduction period outlined in START \nI. In addition, the United States, together with Russia and the \nother relevant states of the former Soviet Union, will be \nexploring programs under Nunn-Lugar to help them to accelerate \nthis process.\n\n\nMultilateral Test Ban\n\nThe two Presidents agreed at Vancouver that negotiations on a \nmultilateral nuclear test ban should commence at an early date, \nand that the two governments would consult with each other \naccordingly. The United States looks forward to beginning \nconsultations with Russia, our allies, and other states, on the \nspecific issues related to this negotiation. The United States \nexpects to start this consultative process within the next two \nmonths. \n\n\nDetargeting\n\nThe two Presidents also began a dialogue on the issue of nuclear \ntargeting at Vancouver. As the United States and Russia move \ninto a new relationship of strategic partnership, there is a need \nto reexamine many of the assumptions and means employed in the \npast to safeguard U.S. security against a nuclear adversary. The \nAdministration is beginning a comprehensive review of measures \nthat could enhance strategic stability, including recent \nproposals for detargeting nuclear missiles. \n\nOther Measures to Create a New Security Relationship\n\nIn response to the incident involving a collision between US and \nRussian submarines last month, Secretary Aspin will be ready to \ndiscuss ways to avoid such incidents in the future with Russian \nDefense Minister Grachev during his visit to the United States in \nlate May.\n\nSecretary Aspin will also be prepared to move forward with \nDefense Minister Grachev in May to develop a combined training \nprogram between our two military forces and to prepare for joint \nexercises in peacekeeping, such as that authorized by the UN \nSecurity Council. The United States looks forward to broadening \nsuch training and exercises to include other peacekeeping \ncontributors, in order to improve inter-operability, readiness, \nand planning for multilateral peacekeeping operations. The US \nand Russia are working together to convene a May Ministerial \nMeeting of the UN Security Council to discuss proposals for \nenhancing the UN's peacekeeping capability and to move \nconsideration of the Secretary-General's Agenda for Peace from \nthe discussion to the implementation phase. The U.S. is also \nworking with the Russians to focus specifically on improvements \nin the financing and management of UN operations. The purpose of \nthese initiatives will be to cooperate on peacekeeping for our \nparticipation in UN or CSCE sponsored actions.\n\n\nMultilateral and Bilateral Partnership with Reform\n\nFinally, the Administration continues to move ahead on a range of \ninitiatives aimed at striking a partnership with economic and \npolitical reformers throughout Russia and the other states. The \nAdministration is continuing work with our G-7 partners to \nassemble the package of multilateral assistance that Secretaries \nBentsen and Christopher recently negotiated in Tokyo. And the \nAdministration is continuing consultation with Congress over the \nfurther efforts the U.S. will take to assist the process of \nreform in Russia and the other states.\n\n * * *\n\nThe Administration believes these steps can increase American \nsecurity while improving the relationship between the U.S. and \nRussia, and between the U.S. and the other new independent \nstates.", "\nI don't know who either is, but I think I see your problem.\n\nYou've got Cecil King and Don Douglass. What you need is Don King\nand Cecil Adams.\n\n\nOr maybe Rodney King and Beanie & Cecil?\n\n", "\nThis is similar to my saying that Clinton's timber summit does little to\nfix the health care problem. Look at the whole picture, not just\nrandomly picked libertarian positions. If government is not allowed to\nuse \"non-initiated force\" to achieve its goals, than no special interest\ncan influence the government to use non-initiated force on their behalf.\n\nThe means to reaching such a restricted government is another topic\nwhich I'll address briefly. It certainly won't happen until\nlibertarianism is the dominate philosophy. What means do we have to\nmake libertarianism the dominate philosophy? Statists run the education\nmonopoly, so we have to be creative. The Advocates for Self-Government\nreports 85% of their Seminar 1 participants \"embrace\" libertarianism.\nThat's the best means I've seen yet. We should lobby for compulsory\nSeminar 1 attendance. :) [in jest!]\n\nRoger Collins", "[deletions...]\n\n\n\nFirst of all, infinity is a mathematical concept created by humans\nto explain certain things in a certain way. We don't know if it actually\napplies to reality, we don't know if anything in the world is infinite.\n\n\nYou don't know if the universe is actually continuous. Continuum is another\nmathematical concept (based on infinity) used to explain things in a certain\nway.\n\n\nI have a pretty good idea of what infinity is. It's a man-made concept, and\nlike many man-made concepts, it has evolved through time. Ancient Greeks had\na different understanding of it.\n\n\nPrecicely. We don't even know if infinity applies to reality.\n", "Tony-\n\nI read your post, it was nothing new, I had seen much the same in other\ntypical\"Christian\" anti-gay sentimental literature. Gay people are and will\ncon- tinue to be persecuted as long as such propaganda petpetuates. You may\nbe unaware of all the statistica \"findings\" concerning African-Americans that\nhave been published and used by various groups to re-enforce their own bias\nagainst African-Americans. We usually think of the KKK in these instances,\nbut there are many other groups. Of course, the vast majority of the public\nscoff at such findings and documents today, but that was not always the case.\nFortunately African-Americans had \"whites\" who supported their 'cause' and\npublic sentiment was eventually (if not entirely) turned around. There was\neven a Civil War, and anti-negro sentiment increased. In fact, until laws\nwere put in place to protect the inalienable rights of Blacks it was pretty\nmuch legal to discriminate against them.\n\nI know many gays and I will NOT turn my back on them or their right to be free\nform discrimination. You may think that I have been deceived or something,\nthat is your perogative. My church, Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)\nopenly affirms the rights of oppressed people of all segments of society,\nincluding gays. We believe the Gospel message of preaching to all creation\nand making disciples. We believe in the Lord's great commandment to Love,\nand we beleive in standing up for the oppressed, even if it is not popular\nto do so. I really like my church for last reason the most. I can find a\nchurch almost anywhere in the valley that stands for the Gospel and believes\nin the commandment of Love (though I'm hard-pressed to find many who actually\nsho Love), but not many are willing to champion the oppressed, especially\nwithin their own community. I may have lost face with the greater Christian\ncommunity for the unpopularity of my beliefs, but so did the abolitionists\nagainst the oppression of African-Americans. Many were even killed and\ntreated as runaway slaves for being \"nigger-lovers\" and such. I guess I've\ndecided the challenge is worth it.\n\nIn my talks with gay men and women I have heard tragic story after tragic\nstory centering around failed marriages, wives and husbands who are straight\nwho have been hurt in the process, etc. Funny thing is, I don't know of one\ncase where the parents, ex-wives, or even children have continued to reject\ntheir gay family member (son, daughter, ex-husband, father, etc.) after they\nbegan to take part in some form of support group, like PFLAG.\n\nI'm apalled by the legislation which passed in Colorado, and am equally out0\nraged that such slimey people as Louis Sheldon (from the Tradition Values\nCoalition) have been actively working in the Christian underground to garner\nsupport within several (8 I believe) states this coming November for more\noppressive legisation against gays.\n\nPerhaps you don't get it, and maybe you never will. Many didn't get it in the\nMiddle Ages and the proclaimed God's will be done as they massacred thousands\nin witch hunts and inquisitions.\n\nThe message that comes through, loud and clear, by proponents against gay\nrights and against gays in general, is that there is a strong dislike, even\nhatred for gays, whether you want to call it such or not (it doesn't change\nthe results). The major flaw in all this posturing is that in the end, the\nfinal effect of posts like that of yours and Mr. Hudson is that YOU have a\n\"conditional\" love for gays. Condition: Change and we'll love you. This is\nsure strange coming from a group who claim that God has an \"unconditional\"\nlove, one that calls people \"just as they are.\" Sure there are things that\nwill 'naturally' change, and habits (like alcoholism, wife beating, etc.) that\nneed to be changed through some sort of therapy. But then there are things\nlike left-handedness, etc. that no amount of beating it out of people, is\ngoing to result in anything more than an outward conforminty to \"other\npeople's expectations.\" In the process this coerced conformity causes many\npeople a great deal of harm, especially when it is caused by people who have\nnothing more to gain from it that to become even more puffed up about their\nown sense of pseuper-spirituality.\n\nThis is sad, but I thoroughly believe that one day it will change. It may be\nunpopular to cry for justice and equality when the basis has to do with\nsomething very personal like 'sexuality' (a taboo subject even today), but I\nfirmly believe in the rights of individuals to be free from impose regulation\non thier bedrooms. It's funny that most straight people have successfully\nremoved restrictive and oppressive legislation against invasive legislation,\nbut we like to maintain this little chestnut of repression...as though it\nhelps us maintain a sense of superiority over at least one segment of society.\nGay people are not criminals.\n\nAnother interesting thing happened recently. A very prominent charismatic\nchurch in the Silicon Valley (here) had two of it's pastors arrested for self-\nadmitted charges of pederasty (men having sex with boys). This had apparently\nbeen going on for some time (a couple years?), but since the charges were\nvoluntary, and the church worked closely with the police, so I imagine that\nwas how they managed to downplay it in the media. How could such a thing\nhappen when the church, itself, has an ex-gay ministry? One of my friends\nrecently told me he was \"approached\" by someone who is going through the\nreparitive therapy there, and he was thoroughly convinced that the request for\ndinner was not an invitation to attend the ministry.\n\nThese are difficult times we live in, but providing hostile environments and\ncreating and perpetuating an atmosphere that breed hate and violence is not\nthe call of the Christian community. The results of the passing amendment in\nColorado has created an organization who's posters are appearing all over\nColorado called \"S.T.R.A.I.G.H.T.\" (I forget the whole definition off hand,\nbut the last part was Against Immoral Gross Homosexual Trash) and their motto\nis \"Working for a fag-free America\" with an implicit advocation for violence.\n\nThis is sick, and it seems to be what you and Mr. Hudson, and others are\nembracing.\n\nWe Christians have a LOOOOOOOOOONG tradition of coersion and oppression\ntowards those we feel don't 'measure up', and constant beratement from\norganizations like The Christian Research Institute, while they do have a good\npurpose also, their major work seems to be finding new and better ways of\nexcluding people.\n\nThe Gospel I believe is not so negative, rather it seeks ways to \"include\"\npeople. I have several of Dr. Martin's books and find them quite helpful,\nespecially concerning 'cults.' But it seems that CRI, has become a cult unto\nitself. Why don't we just stick to the positive and find ways to bring people\nto Jesus istead of taking bullwhips and driving them away?\n\nWhatever", "The r.s.h FAQ sheet never fails to crash my newsreader. The only way I\ncan avoid crashing (and restarting the machine) is to look at the headers and\navoid reading the FAQ. Does anyone else have problems reading the FAQ?\n", "\n\nBut, you wouldn't know what red *was*, and you certainly couldn't judge\nit subjectively. And, objectivity is not applicable, since you are wanting\nto discuss the merits of red.", "\n: PS The first posting I saw I thought was a joke in *VERY* bad taste. My appologies\n: to the person who broke the news.\n\nFor what it's worth...\n\n\n: Note: This file will also be available via anonymous file\n: transfer from csrc.ncsl.nist.gov in directory /pub/nistnews and\n: via the NIST Computer Security BBS at 301-948-5717.\n: ---------------------------------------------------\n: \n: THE WHITE HOUSE\n: \n\nI haven't been able to open an ftp session with that machine.\n\nOperating under the assumption that the address was wrong, I tried using\nnslookup and nicname/whois...\n\n[nnsc.nsf.net]\nHost or domain name Internet address \n[...]\n ncsl server = mail-gw.ncsl.nist.gov \n mail-gw.ncsl 129.6.48.199\n ncsl server = dove.nist.gov \n ncsl server = ecf.ncsl.nist.gov \n ecf.ncsl 129.6.48.2\n ncsl server = enh.nist.gov \n ncsl server = SUNMGR.NCSL.NIST.GOV \n SUNMGR.NCSL 129.6.48.12\n[...]\n\nThat's all I could find about the ncsl domain...oh, and I tried an MX lookup\non the machine in question, which failed. Nicname/whois domain lookups at\nboth registries failed, too. \n\nSo I thought, \"hey, I'm just not using the tools right\" and tried calling\nthe BBS number -- no answer.\n\nI'm probably doing something wrong...or, perhaps, the machine has been put\nbehind a firewall. But it does look like csrc.ncsl.nist.gov has become an\nun-machine. If someone would try ftp'ing to it, or knows what's up, I'd\nreally appreciate the info. ", "\n\tHe: Fifty dollars if I can't answer your question.\n\n\tShe: What is the Big Bang theory.\n\n\tHe: The Big Bang theory is a recipe for cookies.\n\n\tShe: Fifty dollars, please.\n\n\tHe: Hey, I didn't say the answers would make sense.", "My sig has generated more mail than any of my posts.\n\nRobin Hood is a school financing plan wherein property rich school districts\nwill have a portion of their tax revenue taken from them and given to property\npoor districts. The laudable plan is to equalize the per student spending. \nIMHO, however, it is a disaster waiting to happen. Taxes will go up in 50% of\nthe districts and we will lose control of how OUR tax money is spent. It\npenalizes districts that have excelled.\n\nAnd the election is Saturday. Along with city council, school board and the\nunfinished Senate term. And after I exercise one right, I'm going to exercise\nanother!", "\nJust want to make a comment on this. If you live in this country long\nenough, you should realize the media is no friend of the govt. I am\nonly concerned about fact that the media like to jump to conclusion\nbefore the facts. But I am sure they are good in digging dirt as\nwell; afterall, they like the controversial events, which of course\nmake news.", "\n\nSo, we should ban the ammunition? Why not get rid of the guns?\n\n\nIt is worse than others? The National Anthem? Should it be changed too?\nGod Bless America? The list goes on...\n\n\nThen you'd be no better than the people you despise.\n\n\nOh?\n\n\nAn endorsement, or an acknowledgement? I think gods are things that people\nare proud of, but I don't think the motto encourages belief.\n\n\nIs it?\n\n[...]\n\nWould you approve of such a motto?\n\n\nAnd removing the tool will solve the problem?\n\nOr will it increase the problem?", "\tI keep hearing people say this. It assumes that we, at some point,\n\thad a choice at the ballot box: \"Vote yes or no I want the FBI\n\tand BATF to become latter-day Gestapos\". That just isn't so.\n\tThe process is far more complex. We do not have direct control over\n\tthe bureaucracy. When we evaluate our representatives we don't often\n\tknow what their contribution is to the wayward direction of the\n\tfederal law enforcement bureacracy. To assert that we got what\n\twe wanted is absurd. \n\n\tOh, good I feel much better now. ;-) ", "---\n51 Arrested for Defying Judge's Order at Abortion Protest Rally\nThe Miami Herald, April 11, 1993\n\n Melbourne, Florida -- [...]\n\n Circuit Judge Robert McGregor's order prohibits anti-abortion pickets\n within 36 feet of the property line of Aware Woman Center for Choice.\n Even across the street, they may not display pictures of dead fetuses\n or sing or chant loud enough to be heard by patients inside the clinic.\n\n The protesters say the ruling all but wiped out the First Amendment\n to the Constitution.\n\n ``This is our sidewalk,'' said Joe Carroll, 33, a landscaper who\n marched with his children, Mary Grace, 8, and John, 7.\n\n ``I am not a rescuer. I am not a trespasser. It's just that this is\n my sidewalk. I am not really protesting abortion. We are protesting\n denial of our rights of assembly, religion, speech. This judge is\n trashing the Constitution.''\n\n The children's grandmother led them away, sobbing, as Carroll and\n his father were arrested.\n\n Outside the clinic, Eleanor Smeal, president of the Washington,\n D.C.-based Feminist Majority Foundation, called for the Florida\n Legislature and Congress to pass laws as tough as the judge's\n order, which covers only Brevard and Seminole counties.\n\n ``This cannot go on,'' she said. ``This is not freedom of speech,\n this is total psychological warfare with violence. It is ridiculous\n to have to ask clinics to go court-by-court . . . to get protection.''\n\n [...]\n", "\nHmm. The police strategy of bursting in with weapons drawn, clearly marked as\nofficers and yelling \"Police\" repeatedly. This is used every day to bust drug\nhouses. The idea is to awe the suspects into submission with surprise and\ndisplay of firepowere in order to avoid a gun fight. As for not knocking, it's\na sad necessity in many cases since the suspects will attempt to escape or even\nfight. Usually this strategy works; if it didn't, then it wouldn't be used so\ncommonly, now would it?\n\nWhether or not it was appropriate to use this strategy on the BD is not my\npoint, since I don't think any of us have enough information to make a clear\njudgement on this issue.\n\nI merely point out that it IS a valid strategy which is used every day.\nFurthermore, we don't know of any substitute strategy capable of apprehending\npotentially dangerous and armed suspects. Do you suggest that the police\nalways knock with guns holstered and never arrest any suspects until they have\nbeen allowed to inspect the officers's badges? Just what should the police do\nwhen apprehending potentially dangerous and armed suspects? How far can they\nreasonably go to identiy themselves? What do you suggest they can do which\ncan't be faked by the \"competition\"?\n\nEven if you've got deadly enemies who may pretend to be cops, that's not an\nexcuse to murder police. In the case of the BD's, there was almost definitely\nat most the paranoid delusion of deadly enimies who would pretend to be cops.", "\n\t ------------\n\nActually, it's Transoft now, and that's what I meant ;)", "\nYes. Reasonable parallels. (though I don't think Russia ever claimed to be\nCommunist)\n\n\nI must protest your \"...in a Communist country\". How do you know?\nThere haven't been any, and are unlikely to ever be any. In some Socialist\ndictatorships, you can't, whilst in some socialist democracies\n(such as France or Australia)\nyou can. Of course, some people may disagree about France & Australia being\nsocialist...\n\n\nYet.\n\n\nIn some circumstances. I was at a public meeting last night (in the USA), where\na protester, who was very nice and calm, and just said before the\nspeaker started to beware of his opinions, was forced out of the meeting by\ntwo armed policemen.\n\nThere are a lot of things that one cannot do in the USA. You may not\nnotice them, but as an Australian visitor, I notice them.\n\n\nYes, we are lucky at the moment. I hope that is still true in\na few years time. Because it didn't just happen...it required concious\neffort.\n\n\nOf course don't over react --- but don't under react.\n\nAndrew.\nDisclaimer: All my opinions are my own, and do not represent the society\nfor the conservation of momentum or any other group. I hope I don't lose\nmy student Visa as a result of these opinions..\n\n\n-- ", "Hi netters,\n\nI have the following vacation packages for sale:\n\n1> Bahamas Vacation.\n 2 round trip tickets to freeport, Grand Bahamas.\n Double occupancy, hotel accomodation.\n at $ 27 per person per night.\n\n2> Orlando Florida + \n Las Vegas +\n Reno/ Lake Tahoe Vacation\n\n One round trip airline ticket.\n (from major US airports to the 3 of the above mentioned\n destinations)\n Hotel Accomodation for 1 or 2 people.\n (for 3 days/ 2 Nights).", "\nThe problem with turing your computer on and off constantly is not due to\nthe power surge at start up. It is due to thermal fatigue. You turn on\nyour computer, it heats up, and everything expands. You turn it off, it\ncools off, and everything contracts. There is a limited number of cycles\nof this that any component can take before it fails. Modern electronics\nare much more robust in this respect than their predeccesors. In fact\nportable computers are designed with this in mind since the sleep function\nthat extends battery life also greatly increaces the number of thermal\ncycles that occur. As a rule of thumb, if I am not going to use my\ncomputer (and this includes the monitor) in the next 4-6 hours, I turn it\noff (I always dim the monitor when not in use to prolong the life of the\nphosphor). I tend to think that with the pace of technical innovation in\nthe computer industry you should be much less concerned with the fatigue\nlife of your equipment and more concerned with how long your particular\narchitecture will be supported by hardware and software vendors. :\") ", "#|> #|> \n#|> #|> #This is quite different from saying \"Employing force on other people\n#|> #|> #is immoral, period. Unfortunately, from time to time we are obliged\n#|> #|> #to do this immoral thing for reasons of self-preservation, and so\n#|> #|> #we have to bear the moral consequences of that.\n#|> #|> \n#|> #|> Since both statements, to all intents and purposes, say effectively\n#|> #|> the same thing, \n#|> #\n#|> #Are you serious? Two statements, one of which says that use of force\n#|> #in the given situation is moral, and the other of which says it is\n#|> #not moral \"say effectively the same thing?\"\n#|> \n#|> Yes, when you tag on the \"Unfortunately, ...\", then to all intents and\n#|> purposes you are saying the same thing.\n#\n#Then delete the \"unfortunately\". Now tell me that the two statement\n#say effectively the same thing.\n#\n#And to save everyone a couple of trips round this loop, please notice\n#that we are only obliged to use force to preserve self. We can choose\n#*not* to preserve self, which is the point of pacifism.\n\nO.K., got you. I concede your point, though the word \"obliged\" strongly\nimplies that one must sometimes use force. A further rephrasing would\ngive you the distinction you mention, however. If I have you right, a pacifist\nwould not even go on to say, \"unfortunately,etc.\"\n\n#|> #Would you say this of any two statements, one saying \"X is moral\" and\n#|> #the other saying \"X is immoral?\" How would you decided when two \n#|> #statements \"X is moral\" \"X is immoral\" actually conflict, and when\n#|> #they \"say effectively the same thing\".\n#|> \n#|> What they prescribe that one should do is a pretty good indicator.\n#\n#And in this case they don't prescribe the same things, so.....\n\nYes, fair enough, though why confuse things by saying that \"one is \nsomtimes obliged\" if the real meaning is that \"one is never obliged\".\n\n#|> #|> and lead one to do precisely the same thing, then \n#|> #|> either both statements are doublespeak, or none.\n#|> #\n#|> #They might lead you to do the same thing, but the difference is what\n#|> #motivates pacifism so they obviously don't lead pacifists to to the\n#|> #same thing.\n#|> \n#|> That's not true. You could formulate a pragmatic belief in minimum \n#|> force and still be a pacifist. If the minimum is 0, great - but one is\n#|> always trying to get as close to 0 force as possible under that belief.\n#|> Not the same as 'force is immoral, period', but still tending to pacifism.\n#\n#If you don't think the use of force is immoral, why minimise its use?\n\nIf you don't think that it is \"immoral, period.\". ", "[...details deleted...]\n\n\n\nOh, great. We fans can subsidize the cost of speeding up the games\nthat we don't want to see sped up. Terrific.\n\nOh. I forgot. Checking off that box to finance Presidential campaigns\ndoesn't cost us taxpayers anything. \n\nDo you believe in the Tooth Fairy, too?\n\n\n\n--\tThe Beastmaster\n\n\n(sorry. I hate to be so sarcastic on such a beautiful day.)\n\n\n\n", "\nThere is no law prohibiting having biological weapons or nerve gas\non his/her property, or even walking on government property with such\nitems: ipso facto it is now one's _RIGHT_ to have such weapons of\n\"mass destruction.\"\n\nHell, the U.S. patent office has patents on the manufacture of nerve\ngas that anyone can obtain simply by sending a $1.50 to the Patent\nOffice in Washington, D.C. (P.O. Box 8). These same patents are\nverboten to English citizens from their own patent office, which doesn't\nsurprise me based on the mistrust of the UK government against private\nownership of semi-automatic rifles.\n", "\n\nI was under the impression that to obtain fissionable materials (i.e.,\nplutonium or reactor/weapons-grade uranium) one was required to obtain\na federal permit to own such materials.\n\n\nActually, why bother looking it up? From the material we covered last\nterm (in 10 weeks) of Ge/Ch 127 (Nuclear Chemistry), I could *derive*\nwhat it would take to build a bomb. And as far as the explosive charge,\nI (as a chemist) could synthesize a variety of explosives from commonly\navailable chemicals in the garage if I felt like. The electronics \nbehind the detonator and the shaped charges are a little trickier,\nhowever . . . but not impossible using a few \"tricks of the trade.\"\nAnd if I really wanted to be nasty, I could include a core of \nhydrogen and deuterium . . .\n\nOf course, the hardest part is getting the fissionable material\nto start with, and living long enough to put a bomb together. \n(Plutonium has some *nasty* properties . . .)\n", "\n\tI suppose ALL media want something to happen, otherwise what would\n\tthey report: that's their job. (duhhh to me!)\n\n\tBut it's not so much surprising that they want a riot as it is amazing\n\thow they carry that desire across in not so subtle ways (at least to\n\tme...)\n\ncarlos.", "Sorry, but Mormons aren't generally considered to be Christians.\n", "\n\nFreedom of speech does not mean that others are compelled to give one\nthe means to speak publicly. Some systems have regulations\nprohibiting the dissemination of racist and bigoted messages from\naccounts they issue.\n\nApparently, that's not the case with virginia.edu, since you are still\nposting.", "\n\nThat's the entire point!\n\n\nYes!\n\nNatural morality is a morality that developed naturally.\n\n\nHuh?", "This appeared today in the ", "\nWhat's involved in getting bonded? Anyone know if that's an option\nrecognized by NYS DMV?\n\nRod", "\n: > Does anyone have any other suggestions where the 42 came from?\n\nYep, here's a theory that I once heard bandied around. Rather than thinking\nof the number think of the sound. For Tea Two. A sort of anagram on Tea For Two,\nTwo for Tea, For Tea Two.\n\n:-)\n\nPeter\n\n", "\nWe can only say that they are beyond about 25 AU, due to the low\naccuracy of position determination by single detectors.\n\n\nIt may be a NEW Physics problem (i.e. a problem involving new\nphysics). However, the data is not good enough to rule out the >100\nmodels which use old physics. New physics is a big step, and is only\ntolerated when there is no alternative. For example , the Dark Matter\nProblem (there's more to the universe than meets the eye) is a question\nof comparable mystery to GRBs, but we have much better data regarding\nit. Theoreticians postulate new particles all the time to explain it,\nbut no one will actually believe that these particles are real until an\nexperimentalist (or several) detects them in the lab.\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\nThe first means that some aspect of reality contains objective values.\nThe second means that values are a reference to some preference of the\nindividual. In the first case, it is possible that some future discovery\nmight invalidate certain views re what objective values are.\n\n--", "Note: I am cross-posting (actually, emailing) this to \nbit.listserv.catholic while main posting goes to \nsoc.religion.christian.\n\n[Quotations omitted. This is in response to a question about\nthe Immaculate Conception. I explained it, but left justification\nup to our Catholic readers. --clh]\n\nThere is no direct reference in the Holy Scripture except for the\nmention of Mary's _blessedness_/full of grace in the \"Annunciation\" by\nAngel Gabriel in Luke 1:26-28\n\n And in the 6th month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto\n a city of Galilee, named Nazareth. To a virgin espoused to a\n man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's\n name was Mary. And the angel came unto her and said, _\"Hail,\n thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed\n art thou among women.\"_\n\nNow, now, hold that line of thought - \"the Lord is with Mary &\nblessed art thou among women\" - while you read on....\n\nIn the book, \"First Lady of the World, A Popular History of\nDevotion to Mary\" by Peter Lappin:\n\nThe _Immaculate Conception_ matter is really far more complicated\nthan the _Assumption_. This arose in 430 AD. It is quite possible\nthat the feast of _Mary's Conception_ under the title \"The Conception\nof Saint Anne\", originally commemorated the _physical miracle_ of\na woman _beyond the age_ of child bearing, conceiving a daughter,\njust as Elizabeth had conceived John the Baptist. A transfer in\nemphasis from the physical miracle wrought in Anne to the miracle\nof grace wrought by God in the soul of Mary was _logical_. Mary\nis the incorruptible timber \"out of which was hewn the _tabernacle_\nof Christ's sinless body\"; she is \"God's Eden, in whom there is\nno tree of knowledge, and no serpent that harms.\" Her perfect\nbeauty and spotlessness find their exemplar in Christ, her\npurity in that of the Father. At the time of the Council of Ephesus,\nshe was hailed as \"innocent, without blemish, immaculate, inviolate,\nspotless, holy in soul and body, who was blessed as a lily from\namong thorns, unlearned in the evil ways of Eve\".\n...\nAt the end of the thirteenth century, an Irish Franciscan,\nJohn Duns Scotus (1266-1308),...God maintained that it was a \ngreater thing for Him to preserve His (the Son) mother from all\nsin _than to use His power to clease her from it later_.\n...\n\nNow let's go to the discussion of baptism and original sin.\nFrom \"Pocket Catholic Cathechism\" by John A. Hardon:\n\nBaptism -\nConcupiscence Remains after Baptism.\nConcupiscence or the tendency to sin remains in the baptized\nbut since it is left to provide trial, it has no power to\ninjure those who do not consent and who by the grace of\nChrist Jesus, manfully resist (Canon 5).\n\nOriginal gifts of Adam and Eve before their fall:\nIn the light of the foregoing, we see that our first\nparents were originally gifted three times over:\n-They had the natural gifts of human beings especially the\n power to think and to choose freely.\n-The had the _preternatural_ gifts of bodily immortality\n and of integrity, or the internal power to control desires.\n-They had the _supernatural_ gifts of sanctifying grace,\n the virtues of faith, hope, and charity and the corresponding\n title to enter heaven.\nBy their disobedience, they lost the _supernatural and\npreternatural_ gifts entirely, and were weakened (without\nlosing) their natural capacity to reason and to choose\nfreely.\n\nBaptism restores the _supernatural_ life lost by Adam's\nsin. It _does not_ restore the _preternatural_ gifts\nbut gifts as a title to a glorified restoration of our\nbodies on the last day...\n\nGoing back to _Immaculate Conception_\n(I am not sure if this interpretation is in any other\nbooks but it may be another contribution to the 'puzzle'):\n\nGiven the miracle of St. Anne bearing a child at a\nnon-childbearing age, AND Christ was not yet born \nAND _there was no baptism yet_ on Mary's birth but\nSTILL, the Angel Gabriel's greetings was:\n\"Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you.\nBlessed art thou amongst women\".\n\nEven Mary was confused about this greeting.\n\nMary could very well have possessed all of the\n_treefold original gifts above_ given to our first\nparents (Adam and Eve before their sin):\n Hail Mary (Example of praise given by the Angel Gabriel)\n Full of grace (natural, preternatural, supernatural)\n The Lord is with you (At those times, God would\n definitely want to be with those He\n has made _blessed_)\n Blessed art thou amongst women (that says it all)\n\nAt the conception, God made Mary _full of grace\nand blessed_ as the 'tabernacle' for the coming body\nof Christ and so,\n\nImmaculate Conception of Mary is true and Mary still\nhas maintained her Immaculate Heart. ", "\n >How about the thousands of kind teenagers who volunteer at local\n >agencies to help children, seniors, the homeless?\n\n Hear, hear! Thanks, Robbie.\n\n You also don't read that much about violence *against* teenagers, such as\n George Bush burying alive tens of thousands of unarmed Iraqi 17-year-olds,\n who were trying to surrender, with bulldozers.\n\n\nI didn't know George Bush could drive a bulldozer.\n\n\n\nKee-ripe.", "\t ^^^^^^ what the hell ios a 'wovie' ?? (wovy (sp))??\n ", "\n\n\n\nVocabulary test: Please define the following words:\n\n a) contradictory\n b) ambiguous", "Well here in Australia you dial \n11544\nto get the number read back to you\nif you live in the country include the area code of the nearest capital city\neg for wa 09 11544\n\nYours\nMark\n", "I will add my voice to the (hopefully) growing multitudes.\n\nI hereby pledge $1000.00 towards the purchase of CNN, under the same conditions\nas already described. I will also post this idea on the other nets I can \naccess (RIME and Libernet).\n\nWe may have to organize this ourselves, so I am looking for help.", "\n\nI got just this far. What do you mean by \"goal\"? I hope you\ndon't mean to imply that evolution has a conscious \"goal\".", "-------------------------------------------\nIt's already in the hands of a monopoly of the rich because of capitalism\nof land. Other than government land, saved for posterity and the eco-system\nas well as government function, the remaining land is owned by a smaller\npercentage of the people than ever before. The game of capitalism is almost\nwon. The game has only to be declared over and we will have to take matters\ninto our own hands and redistribute it again fairly, or else be enslaved in\nreturn for a place to live. Here in central California, already, fewer than\n30% own all the property and 5% of them own 90% of it. That's twice what it\nwas twenty years ago. Rents are so high that you pay 60% of your income for\nrent. If you just have a McJob, all you can afford is one room, if that.\nSome 30% of minimum wage workers are homeless. Unless you both have degrees\nin technical fields and are working in them, (in the midst of 30%\nunemployment in high tech jobs!), you will never own anything but a used\ncar if you choose to have more than one child!!! And everywhere else you\ncould afford there are no jobs. The only way to get there is to save and\nnot consume any more than you have to, clothing used, food poor. No movies,\nno entertainment,, ect. for about five to seven years, and then, if you've\nsaved $20,000, if you can get together that much, and that's ignoring your\nkids and working two jobs, then you can buy a home in Arkansas or Missouri\noutright and live somewhere where they flood every other year! That's an\nexaggeration if you pay close attention to the flood lines on other\npeople's houses and find a sturdy hill, then you can buy one up there! Also\nbuy a rowboat. Missouri's not so bad, if you like the sensation of sleeping\nin a sweatbox in summer and your car freezing solid in winter. They really\ndo put those heaters into the dipstick hole to keep them warm enough to\nstart with ether!:) Shit, kill the rich and redistribute the livable\nproperty. Kill all of them!\n-RSW\n\n---------------------------------------------\nThe land is simply granted to people who live on it now. Extra is kept for\nthe future. You get to stay where you are without paying rent. Land that\nsupports others becomes property of the state. Farmers are welcome to plant\ncrops that people need according to demand and ability and soil quality. If\nyou want to grow sourgum because you always did, and you aren't doing a\ngood job, then we let another farmer grow sorghum, and you grow something\nelse. When people die the land they were entitled to use goes into the\npublic holdings. No one can sell land, but they can trade places with\nanybody. No one can lease land. The government will locally distribute the\nuse of the land not used for residences. Residences that are insufficient\nto the families living there can be traded to the public for a larger house\nand yard according to need and availability. The local land council who vow\nto live on their land till death to avoid profit ties will decide fairness\nsubject to review by the state and federal land councils. It will cost no\nmore than any fucking thing costs now with fucking assed rent going down a\ndeep dark hole to the owners! Anyone can submit a request for a larger\nhouse or land to start a business on, depending on a valid business plan\nand community needs. Heavy equipment is subject to seizure for the public\ngood or as needed. Heavy equipment operators are encouraged to keep and\nmaintain their own machine and to operate it at a reasonable salary in\nservice to the community. Companies who own many machines are to be divided\namong the appropriate equipment operators and the rest to be let to valid\noperators on a need basis. Cost of upkeep is charged. A guild of heavy\nmachine operators is recognized for safety and training's sake. Their\ncouncil is a subcouncil to the community council. Etc. Etc. Etc. It isn't\nso hard to think of a better system than we have. All you have to do is\nrealize that the system we have now is not sacrosanct, in fact it's a\nrigged game that steals you blind and is the most unfair any system could\nbe already!!!!!!!! The trick is to realize that the old rich have been\nmaking the rules behind your back and that it's time to kick them off the\nmerry-go-round. Tax the rich to death. They are the ones that converted\nyour 60's school lunch program into the joke it is today. They are the ones\nwho always cut education. They are the ones who always raise the rent when\nyou get a raise. They are the ones who should be not just dislodged but\nkilled for their abuse. I have trouble justifying the death penalty for a\npoor kid who killed and didn't know why not. I have no trouble justifying\nthe death penalty for the rich who steal countless human lives to feed\ntheir greed! Have you paid rent most of your life? Then you have been\nenslaved, percentage wise, most of your life. We used to be serfs. Now we\nare called renters, and we are still enslaved to somebody who claims to own\nland they don't use and make us pay them for it when they did nothing to\nown it. Most rents in California are enough to buy the apartment house,\npaynthe taxes and the insurance and have a little left over to travel with!\nI have seen the books! I know what my landlord pays and to whom! I know\nwhat I pay her. I am being forced to buy her a building and then I will be\nlet out at the other end with nothing, when I had as much right as her to\nlive on this planet! And her child will have the money to likewise\nenslave my child. I hope I find out when I am going to die. I can make\nthings just a little happier form me to be able to destroy her life as she\ndestroyed mine. And maybe I can take a few other landlords with me, and\ntheir heirs. That would be worth it. Then to be able to die before they can\ndo anything to me. That's a poor man's dream. Sleep tight, bastard\nlandlords. You don't know the trouble you are buying yourself as you sleep\non my heirs money in your mattress!\n-RSW\n", "I think a few things are being missed overall here... First of all, anyone\nwith a DOS manual can copy a disk, or copy anything (hidden files dont\ngo far if you are dealing with anyone who is not comletely DOS ignorant) off\nof a hard disk. 'Professional' crackers aren;t interested in copying disks.\nThey are programmers who get some thrill out of going through unassembly\nlistings of programs to disable copy protection such as serial number\ndialog boxes, volume label checks, and who knows what when it comes to\ncomputer games. \n \nThose people are in the minority, however. In my experience with the world of\npeople and software, it seems that a good majority of people (say 80%) will\nat some point copy a friend's program (\"Gee, you really oughta try this\") or\naccept a copy. These are people who normally would buy a software package\nor do without, but decided that just once it wouldn't matter.\n\nThe last thing is people who own or are responsible for more than one \ncomputer; most people aren't going to spend $150 * X# of computers for the\nsame software package.. they will just install it x# of times, especially\nthings like DOS upgrades.\n", "\t\t\t\t ^^^\n\t\t what the hell is 'ios'? \n\nFix your own typos before you blame others....\n\n", "Suggestion: try \"Exposing the New Age\" by Douglas Groothuis.\n", "\nYea, it turned out that Gramm-Rudman was a sham to fool the voters\ninto accepting the borrow-and-spend policies of the last 12 years.\n\n\n\n\t\t\t\t\t^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nAnyone can expand the economy by chargeing $3 trillion on their credit\ncards. Big deal. Deficit spending only expands the economy in the short\nterm. In the long term it shrinks the economy for numerous reasons. I would \nhave MUCH preferred that the taxpayers had that $3 trillion instead.\n\n\n\n\nIf Reagan had kept his campaign PROMISE to balance the budget by 1983,\nthere would have been no need for Bush or Clinton to raise taxes. And\nall Reagan had to do was balance that puny Carter deficit.\n\nChew on that awhile.\n", "You know, it just occurred to me today that this whole Christian thing\ncan be blamed solely on Mary.\n\nSo, she's married to Joseph. She gets knocked up. What do you think\nol' Joe will do if he finds she's been getting around? So Mary comes up\nwith this ridiculous story about God making her pregnant. Actually, it\ncan't be all THAT ridiculous, considering the number of people that\nbelieve it. Anyway, she never tells anyone the truth, and even tells\npoor little Jesus that he's hot shit, the Son of God. Everyone else\ntells him this too, since they've bought Mary's story. So, what does\nMary actually turn out to be? An adultress and a liar, and the cause of\nmankind's greatest folly...\n\nJust my recently-minted two cents.\n\nChris\n", "\nUh, Bob, why is the battery warmer than ground temperature? On the time\nscales in question, and with the considerably reduced temperature swings\nseveral feet underground, there isn't going to be any major temperature\ndifference between the battery and what it's sitting on.\n\n\nBecause the temperature of your hand, *unlike that of the battery*, is\ndetermined by the balance between internal heat production and external\nheat loss. You're feeling the greater rate of heat loss from an object\n(your hand) which is kept much warmer than its surroundings. In the case\nof an object with no significant internal heat production, this will\naffect how quickly it comes into equilibrium with its surroundings (if\nit started out not in equilibrium with them) but won't affect the final\ntemperature.\n\nFor the same reason, windchill affects whether you will freeze but not\nwhether water will freeze.", "*** SOURCE code to Macintosh PGP 2.2 now available via anonymous FTP ***\n\nFTP netcom.com\nCD pub/grady\nMGET MacPGP2.2src.sea.hqx\nMGET MacPGP2.2srcSIGNATURE\n\nConvert to a Compact Pro self-extracting archive with BinHex 4.0.\n\nIf appropriate, check the digital signature of the .hqx file with\nyour copy of PGP. (Non-Macintosh users wishing to check the digital\nsignature please note that 'CR' denotes the end-of-line on a Macintosh,\nnot 'LF' or 'CRLF'.)\n\nFor the purposes of the ITAR act, this 'unclassified technical\ndocumentation' is hereby released into the public domain. (However\nno representation is made as to copyright or other commercial rights\nthat may exist in this package.)\n\nFull source code, Symantec THINK C 5.0.4 projects and full user\ndocumentation is included for both 68020 and 68000 versions of Pretty\nGood Privacy, a strong public key encryption and digital signature\napplication using the RSA algorithm patented in the United States\nand the IDEA cipher patented in Switzerland.\n\nNo executables are included.\n\nExecutables are available via anonymous FTP from:\n\nleif.thep.lu.se (Sweden)\nnight.nig.ac.jp (Japan)\nvan-bc.wimsey.bc.ca (Canada)\nsoda.berkeley.edu (P.R. of Berkeley)\nsrc.doc.ic.ac.uk (United Kingdom)\nghost.dsi.unimi.it (Italy)\nplaza.aarnet.edu.au (Australia)\nnic.funet.fi (Finland)\n\n\nOther's public keys are available from anonymous server sites:\n(Send message subject \"help\" for more information.)\n\nInternet sites:\n pgp-public-keys@junkbox.cc.iastate.edu\n Michael Graff\n explorer@iastate.edu\n FTP: tbird.cc.iastate.edu:/usr/explorer/public-keys.pgp\n pgp-public-keys@toxicwaste.mit.edu\n Derek Atkins\n warlord@MIT.EDU\n FTP: toxicwaste.mit.edu:/pub/keys/public-keys.pgp\n pgp-public-keys@phil.utmb.edu\n John Perry\n perry@phil.utmb.edu\n FTP: phil.utmb.edu:/pub/pgp/public-keys.pgp\n pgp-public-keys@demon.co.uk\n Mark Turner\n mark@demon.co.uk\n FTP: ftp.demon.co.uk:/pub/pgp/pubring.pgp\n\nUUCP site:\n pgp-public-keys@jpunix.com\n John Perry\n perry@jpunix.com\n\nThe executable application built from these sources has NOT been\nlicensed by RSA Data Security, Inc. nor has the RSA public key\nalgorithm or the IDEA block cipher algorithm been approved by\nthe National Security Agency.\n\nThis unclassified technical documentation is made available for\nEDUCATIONAL USE ONLY; possession, distribution, or use of an\nexecutable binary built from this source may be a civil or criminal\noffense.\n\nSuggested improvements, bugs, or comments should be directly posted\nto alt.security.pgp or to the principal developers listed among\nthe source documents. General questions and comments about public\nkey cryptography or the IDEA cipher may be posted to alt.security.pgp\nor to the sci.crypt Usenet groups.\n", "There is a contradiction related to the moral issue of polygamy in the\nMormon writings. In the book in the book of Mormon called the book of \nJacob, Joseph Smith wrote that it was an abomination to God for \nDavid and Solomon to have many wives. Later, when Joseph Smith wrote\nthe Doctrines and Covenants (possibly when polygamy was becoming an\nissue in his personal life) he wrote that it was not an abomination for\nDavid to have many wives. How do Mormons answer this contradiction?", "This definately gets the car going, but... WD-40 is highly flammable. Explosive\neven in the right conditions, like a vapour sealed inside a distributor for\neg. And contact points tend to arc a tiny bit :)", "\nThere are several types of copy protection, and the point is to make sure the\nuser is using a legitimate copy. The simplest and virtually fool-proof way is\nfor the program to somehow fixate itself to the machine it was installed on\n(some sort of checksum, serial number, whatever) so a copy put on a different\nmachine (NOT installed from original disks) will not work. \n\nThe program is definitely backupable, if restored to the same machine (depends\non the programmer... don't use a disk drive characteristic!) If the user \ndid an upgrade to the machine, he/she should reinstall all programs any way.\nNo document look-up, no disk wear-and-tear!\n\nI did not say that the originals would allow only one install. The user's \nconscience should do that.\n\nI know, I'll get flamed for this... But with the increasing number of \"casual\"\nusers who either unknowingly or don't care about the software copyrights\n(It's the truth. I have \"friends\" who ask me for copies of my latest games\nall the time, and when I refused, they went after somebody else.), casual\npirating is becoming more of a problem. Some sort of copy protection will\ndiscourage the casual copying. I've seen what some of my \"friends\" dug up\nsomewhere... Latest and the greatest games, all cracked, WITHIN days of actual\nrelease! You know how many bytes you need to change in X-wing to disable\nthe quiz? TWO! Yes, TWO! (And don't ask me which ones they are.) Determined\npirates are unstoppable, given enough time, but their results do not spread \nthat far, since pirate boards are not that well-known, and easily tracked once\nfound by authorities. It is the \"casual\" pirates that the copy protection is\ndetermined to discourage.\n\nWhat I believe the companies should do is implement the above plus\na special patch once the user registers that loudly exclaims upon bootup\n\"REGISTERED TO XXXXX -- address, city, state zip\" and disables the above.\nTwo benefits: 1) encourages registration, 2) cuts down on pirating and\nmakes it more traceable, because if the patch's registration message is\nencrypted, it will be quite hard to change, and therefore provides a\nstable trail of who allowed their copy out of their hands, and thus\nviolated their license agreement.\n\nThis way, the legitimate users who does not register will experience minimal \ndiscomfort (who does major upgrades to their computer frequently?) as only\nproblem they have is they won't be able to restore to another computer.\n\nThe registered users would have proven they are legitmate users and therefore\ngains full rights, and can restore to different machines. On the other hand,\nthe software company now have a record of where THIS particular copy is \nsupposed to be. If this user's copy was found to be somewhere it was not \nsupposed to be, we know who has broken their license agreement. Of course,\na hacker can break that eventually, but that's not the point, is it?", "\n[ These two paragraphs are from two different posts. In splicing them \n together it is not my intention to change Steve's meaning or misrepresent\n him in any way. I don't *think* I've done so. ]\n\n\nPart of what started this was my earlier example of Illinois, USA requiring\nanyone doing more than X automobile transfers a year (X = 10, I think)\nto become licensed as a used car dealer. In addition, it requirs anyone\nwith a used car dealer's license to own at least 10 cars at a time, all the\ntime. \n\nLet me continue with this example and try to answer Steve's questions.\n\nSteve, let's say you have the talent and inclination to fix up and resell\ncars. Either you've gotten good enough at it in your spare time to bump\nup against these limits, or you would like to do it full-time but these\nstupid, arbitrary laws prevent you from starting out small and pulling\nyourself up. So I'm protected from a hungry neighborhood competitor willing\nto take a low profit while working extra hard to fulfill my needs, and you're\nprotected from doing what you want with your life.\n\nHere's what I see libertarianism offering you:\n\nYour money is truly yours; it belongs to you. You can use it to buy a car.\nIf you use it to buy a car, it is truly your car; it belongs to you. You\ncan use your money to fix up that car. Since it is your car, you can sell\nthat car.\n\nYour life is truly yours; it belongs to you. It matters not if someone\nthinks that it's \"wrong\" for you to buy and sell 10 cars within 12 months\nrather than, say, 9 cars. They may dissaprove, but it is not their life or\ntheir money, it is your life and your money.\n\nMy money is truly mine; it belongs to me. I can use it to buy a car.\nPerhaps your car. Perhaps that 10th car, the one that someone, somewhere\ndissaproves of you selling and, presumably, of me buying.\n\nThat someone could go to the government and insist that the government make\nus stop it. But the government would be powerless to stop us from doing\nwhat we like with our own property, in the abscence of fraud or agression.\nAnd it would be powerless to stop us from associating with each other.\n\nThis does not seem to me to be a utopian dream, but basic human decency\nand common sense. A real grass-roots example of freedom and liberty.\nAnd yes, not having a few people acting as our masters, approving or\nrejecting each of our basic transactions with each other, does strike me\nas a wonderful way to improve the human condition.", "Archive-name: ripem/faq\nLast-update: 31 Mar 93 22:00:00 -0500\n\nABOUT THIS POSTING\n------------------\nThis is a listing of likely questions and information about RIPEM, a\nprogram for public key mail encryption. It (this FAQ, not RIPEM) was\nwritten and will be maintained by Marc VanHeyningen\n. It will be posted to a variety of\nnewsgroups on a monthly basis; follow-up discussion specific to RIPEM\nis redirected to the group alt.security.ripem.\n\nWHAT'S NEW\n----------\nI am now running a World Wide Web archive of RIPEM information. It\ndoes not contain much of anything that isn't available elsewhere, but\nit has convenient pointers to the most current version of this FAQ and\nsome other stuff. The URL is \"http://cs.indiana.edu/ripem/dir.html\".\n\nThis month's version has a fair amount of new pointers to information\non patents and stuff like that. I've also reordered a few things to\nhave a more sensible ordering. I hope I don't have to edit this again\nsoon. :-)\n\nDISCLAIMER\n----------\nNothing in this FAQ should be considered legal advice, or anything\nother than one layperson's opinion. If you want real legal advice,\ntalk to a real lawyer, preferably one with experience in patent law,\nexport regulations, or whatever area of law is in question.\n\nLIST OF QUESTIONS\n-----------------\n1) What is RIPEM?\n2) How can I get RIPEM?\n3) Will RIPEM run on my machine?\n4) Will RIPEM work with my mailer?\n5) What is RSA?\n6) What is DES?\n7) What is a fingerprint, like MD5?\n8) What is PEM?\n9) What's this about distributing and authenticating keys?\n10) Isn't it a bad idea to use patented algorithms in standards like PEM?\n11) What about RSADSI/PKP?\n12) Why do all RIPEM public keys look very similar?\n13) What is PGP?\n14) What about RPEM?\n15) What is MIME?\n16) What is TIS/PEM?\n17) I have this simple way to defeat the security of RIPEM...\n\nQUESTIONS AND ANSWERS\n---------------------\n\n1) What is RIPEM?\n\n RIPEM is a (not yet complete, but useful) implementation of Privacy\n Enhanced Mail (PEM). RIPEM allows your electronic mail to have the\n four security facilities provided by PEM: disclosure protection\n (optional), originator authenticity, message integrity measures, and\n non-repudiation of origin (always). (See: \"What is PEM?\")\n\n RIPEM was written primarily by Mark Riordan .\n Most of the code is in the public domain, except for the RSA routines,\n which are a library called RSAREF licensed from RSA Data Security Inc.\n\n The current version of RIPEM is 1.0.5; the current version of the\n Macintosh port of RIPEM is 0.7.\n\n2) How can I get RIPEM?\n\n RIPEM uses the library of cryptographic routines RSAREF, which is\n considered munitions and thus is export-restricted from distribution\n to persons who are not citizens or permanent residents in the U.S or\n Canada without an export license. No such license has been obtained\n (nor would one likely be granted unless the RSA key exchange were\n shortened to 512 bits and the symmetric cipher changed to something\n weaker than DES. There are some suggestions that this situation may\n change now that Clinton is in office.) The author requests in the\n README file that this law not be violated:\n\n #Please do not export the cryptographic code in this distribution\n #outside of the USA or Canada. This is a personal request from me,\n #the author of RIPEM, and a condition of your use of RIPEM.\n\n Note that RSAREF is not in the public domain, and a license for it is\n included with the distribution. You should read it before using\n RIPEM.\n\n RIPEM is available via anonymous FTP to citizens and permanent\n residents in the U.S. from rsa.com; cd to rsaref/ and read the README\n file for info. Note that the non-RSAREF portion of RIPEM is not a\n product of RSA Data Security, Incorporated; they merely are helping\n distribute it.\n\n RIPEM, as well as some other crypt stuff, has its \"home site\" on\n ripem.msu.edu, which is open to non-anonymous FTP for users in the\n U.S. and Canada who are citizens or permanent residents. To find out\n how to obtain access, FTP there, cd to pub/crypt/, and read the file\n GETTING_ACCESS. For convenience, binaries for many architectures are\n available here in addition to the full source tree.\n\n3) Will RIPEM run on my machine?\n\n Probably. It has already been ported to MS-DOS and most flavors of\n Unix (SunOS, NeXT, Linux, AIX, ULTRIX, Solaris, etc.) Ports to\n Macintosh include a standard UNIX-style port and a rather nice\n Mac-like port written by Raymond Lau, author of StuffIt. More ports\n are expected, and help of users is invited.\n\n4) Will RIPEM work with my mailer?\n\n Probably. How easy and clean the effective interface is will depend\n on the sophistication and modularity of the mailer, though. The users\n guide, included with the distribution, discusses ways to use RIPEM\n with many popular mailers, including Berkeley, mush, Elm, and MH.\n Code is also included in elisp to allow easy use of RIPEM inside GNU\n Emacs.\n\n If you make a new interface for RIPEM or create an improvement on one\n in the distribution which you believe is convenient to use, secure,\n and may be useful to others, feel free to post it to alt.security.ripem.\n\n5) What is RSA?\n\n RSA is a crypto system which is asymmetric, or public-key. This means\n that there are two different, related keys: one to encrypt and one to\n decrypt. Because one cannot (reasonably) be derived from the other,\n you may publish your encryption, or public, key widely and keep your\n decryption, or private, key to yourself. Anyone can use your public\n key to encrypt a message, but only you hold the private key needed to\n decrypt it. Note that the \"message\" sent with RSA is normally just\n the DES key to the real plaintext. (See \"What is DES?\")\n\n Note that the above only provides for disclosure protection. For\n originator authenticity, message integrity, and non-repudiation of\n origin services to be implemented, the fingerprint of the message\n (See \"What is a fingerprint, like MD5?\") is encrypted with the\n sender's private key. The recipient, or a dispute-resolving\n authority, can use the sender's public key to decrypt it and confirm\n that the message must have come from the sender and was not altered.\n\n RSA was named for the three men (Rivest, Shamir and Adleman) who\n invented it. To find out lots more about RSA and modern cryptography\n in general, ftp to rsa.com and look in pub/faq/. Some information\n also may be in sci.crypt.\n\n6) What is DES?\n\n DES is the Data Encryption Standard, a widely used symmetric, or\n secret-key, crypto system. Unlike RSA, DES uses the same key to\n encrypt and decrypt messages. However, DES is much faster than RSA.\n\n RIPEM uses both DES and RSA; it generates a random key and encrypts\n your mail with DES using that key. It then encrypts that key with the\n recipient's public RSA key and includes the result in the letter,\n allowing the recipient to recover the DES key.\n\n DES is sometimes considered weak because it is somewhat old and uses a\n key length considered too short by modern standards. However, it\n should be reasonably safe against an opponent smaller than a large\n corporation or government agency. It is not likely that the PEM\n standard will incorporate support for other symmetric ciphers in the\n near future, because there is a strong feeling that PEM should be\n stable so it can become utilized widely without early problems with\n interoperability.\n\n7) What is a fingerprint, like MD5?\n\n MD5 is a message digest algorithm produced by RSA Data Security Inc.\n It provides a 128-bit fingerprint, or cryptographically secure hash,\n of the plaintext. It is cryptographically secure because it is not\n possible (in a reasonable amount of computation) to produce a\n different plaintext which produces the same fingerprint. Thus,\n instead of signing the entire message with the sender's private key,\n only the MD5 of the message needs to be signed for authentication.\n\n MD5s can also be exchanged directly for authentication; for example,\n RIPEM public keys include an MD5 of the public key in the file, so\n parties wishing to confirm their keys are authentic via a separate\n channel merely need exchange MD5s of keys and verify their accuracy.\n\n MD5 is sometimes used for other purposes; for example, it is often\n used to map an input of arbitrary length to 128 bits of data, as a\n passphrase interpreter or cookie generator.\n\n MD5 is described in its entirety (including an implementation in C) in\n RFC 1321.\n\n There have been some recent suggestions that MD5 may not be as strong\n a hash as was originally believed; presumably some other hash\n function will be used if this is accepted as true.\n\n8) What is PEM?\n\n PEM is Privacy Enhanced Mail, a standard for allowing transfer of\n encrypted electronic mail generated over a long period of time by a\n working group of experts. It is described in RFCs 1421-1424; these\n documents have been approved and obsolete the old RFCs 1113-1115.\n\n RIPEM is not really a complete implementation of PEM, because PEM\n specifies certificates for authenticating keys, which RIPEM does not\n handle at this time. Their addition is planned.\n\n9) What's this about distributing and authenticating keys?\n\n For a remote user to be able to send secure mail to you, she must know\n your public key. For you to be able to confirm that the message\n received came from her, you must know her public key. It is important\n that this information be accurate; if a \"bad guy\" convinces her that\n his key is in fact yours, she will send messages which he can read.\n\n RIPEM allows for three methods of key management: a central server,\n the distributed finger servers, and a flat file. All three are\n described in the RIPEM users guide which is part of the distribution.\n None of them provide perfect security. The PEM standard calls for\n key management by certificates; the addition of this feature to RIPEM\n is planned, but chicken-egg issues still exist.\n\n10) Isn't it a bad idea to use patented algorithms in standards like PEM?\n\n This issue has been considered in the standards process. RFC 1310,\n the specification for Internet standards, has a discussion (section\n 6) on what specifications for nondiscriminatory availability must be\n met for a patented method to be included in a standard. RFC 1421\n addresses this issue with regard to the patents covering public-key\n cryptography.\n\n This does not, of course, mean that all questions are settled or that\n everyone is in agreement. An interesting exchange on the use of\n patented algorithms in standards with regard to public-key\n cryptography is in the League for Programming Freedom archive\n (available via FTP: ftp.uu.net:/doc/lpf) in the files bidzos.letter\n and bidzos.response. (Amusingly, the LPF files on ftp.uu.net are\n compressed with a patented algorithm.)\n\n11) What about RSADSI/PKP?\n\n RSA Data Security, Inc. (RSADSI) is a California-based company\n specializing in cryptographic technologies. Public Key Partners is a\n firm which holds exclusive sub-licensing rights of the following U.S.\n patents and all of their corresponding foreign patents:\n\n Cryptographic Apparatus and Method\n (\"Diffie-Hellman\")............................... No. 4,200,770\n\n Public Key Cryptographic Apparatus\n and Method (\"Hellman-Merkle\").................... No. 4,218,582\n\n Cryptographic Communications System and\n Method (\"RSA\")................................... No. 4,405,829\n\n Exponential Cryptographic Apparatus\n and Method (\"Hellman-Pohlig\").................... No. 4,424,414\n\n PKP claims these four patents cover all known methods of public key\n cryptography. The two businesses are rather closely related (for\n example, the same person, Jim Bidzos, is president of both of them.)\n PKP has licensed this technology to a considerable number of\n companies (IBM, DEC, Motorola, AT&T, Lotus...) for use in their\n products. PKP has also threatened and filed lawsuits defending their\n patents.\n\n RIPEM was originally created with no connection to RSADSI other than\n its use of the RSAREF library, and for no reason other than its\n author's desire to see widespread use of public-key cryptography.\n However, after the ball started rolling, people at RSADSI got\n interested. RSADSI decided to carry RIPEM on its FTP site, and some\n people there started making their own RIPEM keys and contributing\n code. RIPEM even won the \"Best Application Built on RSAREF in 1992\"\n award.\n\n12) Why do all RIPEM public keys look very similar?\n\n RIPEM public keys begin with a PKCS (Public-Key Cryptography\n Standards) identifier describing various characteristics about the\n key, so the first bunch of characters in your key may be the same as\n those of lots of other people's keys. This does not mean your keys\n are similar, but only that they are the same class of key, were\n generated with the same program, are of the same length, etc.\n\n13) What is PGP?\n\n PGP is another cryptographic mail program called Pretty Good Privacy.\n PGP has been around longer than RIPEM, and works somewhat differently.\n PGP is not compatible with RIPEM in any way, though PGP does also use RSA.\n\n A few major differences between PGP and RIPEM:\n\n - PGP has more key management features, particularly for users without\n a direct network connection.\n\n - RIPEM conforms to the PEM RFCs and thus has a greater probability\n of working with other PEM software. PGP makes no attempt to be\n compatible with anything other than itself.\n\n - RIPEM uses RSAREF, a library of RSA routines from RSADSI which\n comes with a license allowing noncommercial use. PGP uses its own\n implementation of RSA. PKP claims that it is a violation of its\n patents to \"make, use or sell\" PGP in the U.S. or Canada without\n either a license or written permission. (See: \"DISCLAIMER\")\n (See: \"What about RSADSI/PKP?\") Phil Zimmermann, the author of\n PGP, stopped distributing it after being threatened with legal\n action; he believed that a licensing scheme could be arranged, but\n it hasn't happened and there seems little prospect of it happening\n in the future. He acknowledges in the PGP User's Guide:\n\n #In fact, if you live in the USA, and you are not a Federal agency, \n #you shouldn't actually run PGP on your computer, because Public\n #Key Partners wants to forbid you from running my software. PGP is\n #contraband.\n\n - Both PGP and RIPEM are export-restricted, and cannot be sent outside\n the U.S. and Canada without an export license. However, PGP\n already exists on many ftp sites in Europe and other places.\n\n Whether you use PGP or RIPEM or whatever, the documentation to PGP is\n recommended reading to anyone interested in such issues.\n Unfortunately, it's not distributed separately from the program,\n which can be difficult to find in the U.S. on FTP sites due to\n liability concerns.\n\n14) What about RPEM?\n\n RPEM stands for Rabin Privacy Enhanced Mail. It was similar to RIPEM,\n but used a public-key cipher invented by Rabin (which is not RSA) in\n an attempt to avoid the patents on public-key systems. It was\n written by Mark Riordan, who later wrote RIPEM.\n\n Its distribution was halted when, contrary to the beliefs of many\n (including Rabin), PKP claimed that their patents were broad enough\n to cover the cipher employed. This claim is not universally\n accepted, but was not challenged for pragmatic reasons.\n\n RPEM is not really used anymore. It is not compatible with RIPEM or PGP.\n\n15) What is MIME?\n\n MIME stands for Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions, and is\n described in RFC 1341. You can find out about it in the newsgroup\n comp.mail.mime; a FAQ exists on it. How PEM should interact with\n MIME is not yet entirely clear; some people use the stopgap solution\n of having a MIME type application/x-ripem in order to send RIPEM\n messages as MIME ones. I hope some standards will emerge. Draft\n Internet documents exist on the matter.\n\n16) What is TIS/PEM?\n\n Trusted Information Systems is working on a version of Privacy\n Enhanced Mail for general availability. Last I heard, it was\n rumored to be integrated into an existing mail user agent (MH)\n rather than a stand-alone system, and in beta test. I don't know\n much more than that.\n\n17) I have this simple way to defeat the security of RIPEM...", "In <1993Apr15.045651.6892@midway.uchicago.edu>, thf2@midway.uchicago.edu sez:\n\nEven if Brett's eventual-return figures were correct -- and they\nclearly weren't -- he'd still be wrong about the cause for the '86\nblip because he fails to consider 2 basic factors:\n\n1) As Ted notes, not everyone is a long-term investor. One might find\noneself, as I did in late 1986, anticipating expenses in the near term\nthat require selling off holdings. Given the choice between waiting a\nfew weeks (and taking an extra tax hit) or selling in December with\npreferential tax treatment, only a fool would choose the former.\n\n2) The fact that Brett can now construct _post hoc_ calculations of\nwhat would have been more beneficial to investors is in many respects\nbeside the point. There was plenty of _Money_-style advice given to\nunsophisticated investors in late 1986 to \"sell now and save on\ntaxes.\" In case anyone missed it, there was no shortage of similar\nadvice late last year (in the NYTimes, e.g.), even though that advice\nwas based not on the foregone conclusion of enacted law (as in 1986),\nbut merely on the *assumption* that Clinton would raise tax rates\n(without capping CG taxes, contrary to the current proposal).\n\nIt's nice to think that investors always behave in their optimal\neconomic interest. Like assuming weightless ropes and frictionless\npulleys, though, this sort of thinking often fails to describe\naccurately what happens in the real world.\n\n", "\n\nPeter> : > Does anyone have any other suggestions where the 42 came from?\n\nPeter> Yep, here's a theory that I once heard bandied around. Rather than thinking\nPeter> of the number think of the sound. For Tea Two. A sort of anagram on Tea For Two,\nPeter> Two for Tea, For Tea Two.\n ~~~~~~~~~~~ \nUn other suggestion is there is no Tea above! It just \nAnd For Two many things are possible; think binary, + -, Y/N,\nL/R, T/F No wonder there was Eve for Adam! \n\nPeter> :-)\n \nMalek :-) :-)\n\n--\n Malek.", " >>You should face the facts. Love Canal was not, and is not, an\n >>environmental disaster, nor even a problem.\n >>\n >>Nor is Times Beach and TMI and acid rain killing trees and\n >>....\n >>\n >Not a problem? Would you move to Three Mile Island? I would\n >imagine there is some cheap property available!\n\nNo, because I don't like the weather back East. However, it would bother me\nnot one bit to live in an equivalent area here. By the way, do you KNOW what\nthe extra exposure to radiation from TMI was?\n\n >The naturally occurring catastrophic events [disasters] that\n >destroy property (ie: hurricanes, tornados, earthquakes) do\n >not usually leave toxic wastes that prevent people from\n >re-building their lives there. The man-made disasters (oil\n >spills, toxic dumping, radioactive waste dispersions) cause\n >death and make an area unliveable far beyond the initial\n >event.\n\nO.K., in the U.S., tell me about some of these deaths and some of these\nunliveable areas. Oh, and if you manage to find some of these unliveable\nareas, tell me what percentage of the total US land area they are.\n(Hint - the total waste produced by all nuclear reactors in the US can be\nsafely stored in the area of three footbal fields.)\n\n\n-- \nThere are actually people that STILL believe Love Canal was some kind of\nenvironmental disaster. Weird, eh?", "\n\nEvery time somone writes something and says it is merely describing the norm,\nit is infact re-inforcing that norm upon those programmed not to think for\nthemselves. The motto is dangerous in itself, it tells the world that every\n*true* American is god-fearing, and puts down those who do not fear gods. It\ndoesn't need anyone to make it dangerous, it does a good job itself by just\nexisting on your currency.\n\n\nThe Desert Brat", "On 21-Apr-93 in Re: ABORTION and private he..\nNot so in PA. Recently the gender inequity in auto insurance was\nremoved. Just a point.\n", "\n\nPrecisely, why not Cuba?? Why not??? The Hatians are being ruled by thugs \nand their elected leader has asked support to reestablish the peoples will. If \nthe U.S. or any other democracy wishes to, they are in the perfect right to \nhelp them without any whining from thir parties. After all if it turns out to \nbe colonialism and the poeple don't like it, they' find a way to throw them out.\n\n\nWho ever said people who commit genocide have the right to commit genocide?? \nI want a world where criminals agains humanity have no place to hide, while you \nwant special sovereignties designed to protect them. Nobody has the right to \ncommit crimes against humanity, and if they do they loose all right to self \ndetermination. If this is classical colonialism, then so be it.", "\n\n\n Hey, *I* wasn't the one dancing and singing on Jan. 20, now\n WAS I? I was roundly ridiculed for my \"predictions\".\n\n Sure they were easy. TEll that to the other 43% of the people. :)\n\n\n\n\n Just WAIT until the see what Clinton has planned for \n their pension funds! :) This one doesn't take much thinking\n either. Uncle Sam needs money, BAD, and pension funds got it.\n\n Well, they USED to have it. Turns out the states have been\n plundering state employee funds for the past 2-3 years. ;)", "The story I related is one of the seven apparitions\napproved by our Church as worthy of belief. It happened\nin La Salle, France.\n\nThe moral lesson of the story is:\n\nThe Lamb of God has been sacrificed and His blood has \nbeen used to cleanse us of our sins every moment as God perceives\nworthy of being done in Heaven. Mary weeps for The Lamb and\nfor the rest of her offsprings. This will continue while we \ndisobey God or sin against Him. Mary, as a messenger, \nhas been given the task to make us be 'aware' of the evil\nserpent (communism, wars, famine, unfaithful, disobedience\nto God, etc.) running after the rest of her offsprings. \nThe children who went astray by disobedience led by the dragon is \nbrought back by her peace and loving messages, reparations for sins, \nto obey God's commandments and be more worthy to be in the presence \nof The Lamb.\n\nAs she was conceived without sin to be worthy of bearing the\nSon of God in her womb, Mary has been preparing us, the Church,\nthe Body of Christ, for His second coming (making sure we are \nprotected from the dragon). Also, she has been preparing the new \nEden, by reversing the deed of the ancient Eve. The new Eden will be\nthe sanctuary of the righteous as judged by Christ in His\nnext coming.\n \nI relate the story again:\n I believe this and Mary, in one of her apparitions \n in 19th or 20th century, she appeared to these \n two children who tends goats and cows (I forgot \n the exact place). She was weeping and telling the \n children that she is afraid she's \"going to lose her\n Son's arm\". She is mourning too for these \n townfolks because it was their fault that there \n would be drought in their harvest; not much good \n food again this year as it was last year. \n \n Mary tells the children: \n* Most of the townfolks in this place worked whole *\n* week even on Sundays when they should be in church *\n* honoring God. These townfolks swears and *\n* uses her Son's name in bad words. That is *\n why her Son's arm is so heavy in pain. \n Then she asked them if they pray. The children \n said \"hardly\". She asked them to pray every \n morning and night. When the children went back \n from work they had to tell somebody about this. \n When the news was spred and after thorough \n* investigation of the incident, the townfolks *\n* were converted and faith and obedience to God *\n* were restored in their community. *\n\n\nOnce again, the Lamb succeeds.", "\n > I realize I'm entering this discussion rather late, but I do\n > have one question. Wasn't it a Reagan appointee, James Watt, a\n > pentacostal christian (I think) who was the secretary of the\n > interior who saw no problem with deforestation since we were\n > \"living in the last days\" and ours would be the last generation\n > to see the redwoods anyway?\n\nFor the Record:\n\nOn February 5, 1981, at a House of Representatives\nInterior Committee Meeting, Rep. James Weaver (D, Ore), asked Watt\nwhether \"you agree that we should save some of our scenic resources\nfor our children, not just gobble them up all at once?\" Watt's\nanswer was:\n\n < Absolutely. That is the delicate balance the Secretary of the\n < Interior must have -- to be steward for the natural resources\n < for this generation as well as future generations. I do not\n < know how many future generations we can count on before the\n < Lord returns. Whatever it is, we have to manage with a skill\n < to have the resources needed for future generations.\n\nMy source is a column by Rowland Evans and Robert Novak on the\nop-ed page of the WASHINGTON POST for Friday 21 August 1981.", "\n\nAccording to this reasoning there are no rights, at least none that I can think \nof....\n\nLet's see. Do I have a right to unpolluted air? No, because the majority\ndrive cars and use goods that create air pollution in the manufacturing process.\n\nDo I have the right to clean water? I guess not, by the same reasoning.\nI could go on with these examples for a long time....\n\nLook at Nazi Germany. Because of the majority, Jews, homosexuals, blacks,\nand others that were different had no rights. In fact they were terrorized, \nimprisoned, and slaughtered. In this country did blacks have the right to be\nfree from slavery? I guess not, because the majority said that slavery was \ngood for them.\n\nI think that a right has a moral imperative. If a law, imposed by the majority,\nis immoral, one should not follow it. In fact, one should do everything in\nhis/her power to stop it. Of course, that doesn't mean that I would lose all\ncommon sense to break the law, just because I thought it was immoral. I pay\nmy Federal Income Tax even though I am morally opposed to the U.S. Government\ntaking my money and spending it on weapons of mass destruction and terrorism.\nThis is precisely the point I am trying to make. We should _persude_ people \nby logic, pointing out that it is in their self-interest to let all have\nequal rights in all aspects of life, including adequate housing, food, and\nmedical care. I just happen to think that for a full life the aesthetic of\nbeauty and joy is also necessary. That is why I consider an uncluttered\nnight sky a right.\n\nHave you ever been out in the desert, away from local lights, and most people?\nThe sky is dark and transparent. The Milky Way is ablaze with more detail\nthan you thought possible. The beauty and wonder takes your breath away.\n\nNow imagine you live in the worst ghetto, say in L.A. Due to light pollution\nyou have never seen a dark sky. You might in fact never, not in your whole\nlife, ever see the majesty of the night sky. Every where around you, you see\nsqualor, and through your life runs a thread of dispair. What is there to live\nfor? \n\nI admit these two scenarios are extreme examples, but I have seen both.\nI, for one, need dreams and hopes, and yes, beauty, as a reason for living.\nThat is why I consider an uncluttered night sky a right.\n\nGeorge", "\nTests suck! Post a real message!\n:^)\n", "Subject: RE: Europe vs. Muslim Bosnians\nFrom: f54oguocha\nDate: 13 MAY 93 02:28:53 GMT\nSerbs.\n1929).\nIslam \nnot\nwho\nCroats? \nhas \nchildhood was \n\n\nYou've asked a crucial question that underlies much of the genocide. \nBosnian Muslims are slavic in ethnicity. They speak Serbo-Croatian. But\nthere is a Christo-Slavic ideology whereby all true slavs are Christian\nand anyone who converted to Islam thereby must have changed ethnicity by\nchanging religion. See the poems of Ngegos or the novels of Ivo Andric\nwho brilliantly displays these attitudes on the part of what he calls\n\"the people\" (i.e. Christian slavs). For this reason, the war-criminals\ncall all the Bosnian Muslims \"Turks\" even though they are not ethnically\nTurk and do not speak Turkish as their first language. For this reason,\nwhat is actually a genocide labeled against those who are ethnically\nidentical but religiously \"other\" is called, paradoxically, \"ethnic\ncleansing\" rather than \"religious cleansing.\"\n\nThus, while a war rages between Serbs and Croats as a continuation of\nWWII, and older agenda, the annihilation of Islam and Muslims from\nBosnian, is being carried out under the cover of the Serbo-Croat war.\n\nRegards,\n\nMike.", "Probably within 50 years, a new type of eugenics will be possible.\nMaybe even sooner. We are now mapping the human genome. We will\nthen start to work on manipulation of that genome. Using genetic\nengineering, we will be able to insert whatever genes we want.\nNo breeding, no \"hybrids\", etc. The ethical question is, should\nwe do this? Should we make a race of disease-free, long-lived,\nArnold Schwartzenegger-muscled, supermen? Even if we can.\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "\nIt already does.\n", "Could we plase cease this discussion. I fail to see why people feel the need \nto expound upon this issue for days and days on end. These areas are not meant for this type of discussion. If you feel the need to do such things, please\ntake your thought elsewhere. Thanks.", "\nI understand and sympathize with your pain. What happened in Waco was a very\nsad tradgedy. Don't take it out on us Christians though. The Branch\nDavidians were not an organized religion. They were a cult led by a ego-maniac\ncult leader. The Christian faith stands only on the shoulders of one man,\nthe Lord of Lords and King of Kings, Jesus Christ. BTW, David Koresh was NOT\nJesus Christ as he claimed.\n\nGod be with you,\n\nMalcolm Lee :)", "\n\nI did not claim that our system was objective.\n", "\n\nIt always amazes me how quick people are to blame whatever\nadministration is current for things they couldn't possibly have\ninitiated. This chip had to take *years* to develop, yet already\nwe're claiming that the Clinton administration sneaked it in on us.\nBullshit. The *Bush* administration and the career Gestapo were\nresponsible for this horror, and the careerists presented it to the\nnew presidency as a fait accompli. That doesn't excuse Clinton and\nGore from criticism for being so stupid as to go for it, but let's lay\nthe body at the proper door to start with.", "com\n\n\n\nOn a DA revolver, you get another try on a misfire. On a pistol where\nthe trigger does not cock the hammer, like a Jennings, or an Astra M400,\nor a Glock, a misfire requires the slide be cycled to get the gun to\nfunction.\n\nRather than a high capacity revolver, think of a Glock as an Astra M400 \nwith no manual safety and a heavier trigger pull.", "\t* The Government\n\t* Liberals\n\t* BATF, FBI, DEA, etc. (see #1)\n\n\tWell...\n\t\tcontributions == taxes\n\t\tabortion == elimination of fetal tissue\n\t\tClinton == president\n\t\tfaggot == spouse\n\tIt could happen...\n\n\tHydrogen Bomb, perhaps.\n\t\n\tYep.\n\n\tYep.\n\n\n", "[reply to geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)]\n \n \n \nI think a case could be made that this is discriminatory, particularly\nif an applicant had good board scores and recommendations but wasn't\noffered an interview, but I don't know if it has ever gone to court.", "\n\nPreliminary negotiations started already, I believe. Though the word\nis that they are going slooooooooooooooooooooooowly.", "Vielen dank\nDesperate Fan", "Los Angeles Times, Saturday, May 8, 1993. Page A11.\n\nFIGURE IN ADL SPY CASE ARRESTED AT S.F. AIRPORT\n\n ESPIONAGE: Former police officer is taken into custody upon\n arriving from Philippines, where he had fled after FBI\n interrogation.\n\nBy Jenifer Warren, Times staff writer\n\nSan Francisco -- A former San Francisco police officer who fled to the\nPhilippines amid accusations that he funneled confidential law\nenforcement information to an investigator for the Anti-Defamation\nLeague was arrested at the airport here on 11 felony charges, police\nsaid Friday.\n\nThomas J. Gerard who abruptly left the United States in October after\nthe FBI questioned him about his activities, was apprehended Thursday\nnight after a source in the Philippines told investigators that Gerard\nwas returning home.\n\nGerard, 50, was booked into San Francisco County Jail early Friday\nmorning on eight counts of theft of government documents and one count\neach of computer theft, burglary and conspiracy.\n\nIf convicted on all charges, Gerard could face 16 years in prison and\n$40,000 in fines. Bail was initially set at $250,000 after police\nargued that he was a flight risk, but it was later reduced to $20,000. \nA friend of Gerard was trying to post bail late Friday afternoon, a\nsheriff's spokeswoman said.\n\nGerard returned to the United because he missed his wife and child,\nwith whom he lived on a houseboat in Sausalito, and \"wanted to have\nhis day in court,\" said Police Capt. John Willett, his former boss and\none of two arresting officers.\n\nGerard, an undercover agent for the Central Intelligence Agency from\n1982 to 1985, also feared that the CIA was out to kill him, Willett\nsaid. In an interview with The Times last month, Gerard threatened to\ndisclose illegal CIA support of death squads in Central America if he\nwas indicted and tried on the San Francisco spying charges.\n\nGerard is a central figure in a scandal over an intelligence network\noperated by the Anti-Defamation League, a prominent Jewish civil\nrights organization. Investigators allege that Gerard illegally gave\ncriminal histories to Roy Bullock, a San Francisco art dealer who said\nhe has been an undercover ADL intelligence operative for 40 years.\n\nInvestigators said they found confidential police files in Bullock's\nhome computer -- which contained entries on 10,000 people and 950\ngroups -- and in boxes in his apartment. Files have also been seized\nunder search warrants from ADL offices in San Francisco and Los\nAngeles but authorities have not disclosed their contents.\n\nGerard could not be reached for comment Friday, and his attorney,\nJames Lassart, did not return telephone calls seeking comment. In the\ninterview with The Times last month, however, Gerard acknowledged\nsnooping and sharing some information with Bullock, but denied any\ncriminal wrongdoing.\n\nBullock and Gerard also are under investigation for selling\nintelligence to South Africa.\n\nADL officials have described Bullock as a $550-a-week independent\ncontractor and have vigorously denied knowledge of any illegal\nactivity. On Friday, ADL lawyer Jerrold Ladar said Gerard's arrest\n\"has nothing to do with ADL. Other than that, we have no comment on\nthe case.\"\n\nArab-American groups -- which were a main target of the spying,\naccording to police -- applauded the arrest and pressed authorities to\npursue the investigation.\n\n\"We urge investigators to carry this case forward and to publicly\ndisclose the full extent of ADL and law enforcement involvement,\" said\nJames Zogby, head of the Arab American Institute in Washington.\n\nPolice, meanwhile, characterized Gerard's arrest -- the first in the\ninquiry into the spying scandal -- as an unexpected breakthrough. A\nformer police colleague of Gerard, Inspector Fred Mollat, visited\nGerard several weeks ago and urged him to return home.\n\n\"I knew he wouldn't want to live on an island on the lam forever, but\nwe didn't think it would happen this quickly,\" Capt. Willett said. \n\"This development really speeds up our timetable on the case.\"\n\nDuring his 25-year career on the police force, Gerard was a highly\nregarded officer known for his work in the department's intelligence\ndivision. His last assignment was on the gang task force.\n\nAfter FBI agents questioned Gerard last fall, he took early retirement\nand fled to the remote jungle island of Palawan, 300 miles south of\nManila.\n\nGerard was arrested at 8:40 p.m. as he stepped from his Philippines\nAirlines flight. He was traveling alone and looked tanned but haggard\nafter his six-month hiatus, police said.\n\n\"He was surprised when he saw us standing there, and got a shocked\nlook on his face,\" Willett said. \"Then he said, 'Hello, I'm back.'\"\n ", "\n\n\n\n\nIsn't it ironic. I'm of that generation, and I remember the lesson. I\ncry to see all the postings from domestic .edu sites that have naively\nswallowed everything the government has seen fit to feed to them.\nEspecially contrasted to such a post from the .uk yet.\n\n\nI suspect we saw the latter. However, the injustice implied in letting\nthose involved escape without investigation and/or prosecution is also\nhorrible to contemplate.\n-- ", "On the subject of CS/CN/tear gas: when I received my initial introduction to\ntear gas, the first thing that came to mind was the location of the exit. If\nthere had been anything in the way, corners to negotiate, doors to open, or \nany other obstacles to movement, I would have had a difficult time exiting the\nchamber. And any concentration of tear gas is hazardous to individuals with\nrespiratory problems, and the wearing of soft contact lenses in a tear gas \ncontaminated area is considered a REAL BAD IDEA. So hoping the BD's would\npeaceably come strolling out the door after being gassed is a bit unrealistic.\nIf they could have found the door, having them staggering out retching wouldn't\nbe too far fetched. Throw in the factor of 50-51 days of being under siege and\nsubject to psychological warfare, and all bets on functional abilities are off.\nAnybody tried to get Amnesty International to jump in on this one?\n", ":Of course, one again faces the question of how one circumscribes government\n:power (and keeps it circumscribed) in a complex society when it is in the \n:interest of neither capitalists nor consumers to refrain from using \n:government power for their own ends. But apart from that little \n:conundrum...\n\tWithout having a complete answer to this question, I should think\nit obvious that the first step should be to convince people this would be\na desirable result. There are still quite a lot of people who feel that\nthe command economies of eastern Europe failed due to corruption rather than\nessential weaknesses of caommand economies, and you still have a majority\nin this nation that favors keeping unenforced and unenforcible laws on\nthe books in order to \"send a signal\".\n\n\n:It would seem that a society with a \"failed\" government would be an ideal\n:setting for libertarian ideals to be implemented. Now why do you suppose\n:that never seems to occur?...\n\n\nI fail to see why you should feel this way in the first place. Constant\ncombat isn't particularly conducive to intellectual theorizing. Also,\nthey tend to get invaded before they can come to anything like a stable\nsociety anyway. \n\n\n:I wouldn't call it \"vague.\" I'd call it elastic. All \"regulation\" is \n:not necessarily the same. By opposing all government regulation, some \n:libertarians treat every system from a command economy to those that\n:regulate relatively free markets as identical. That's one reason\n:many of the rest of us find their analysis to be simplistic. \n\nUmm, is there any distinction between \"vague\" and \"elastic\" in this\ncontext aside from one having a more positive connotation than the other?\n\nAt any rate, we've been through all this before.\n\n:Steve Hendricks | DOMAIN: steveh@thor.ISC-BR.COM \n:\"One thing about data, it sure does cut| UUCP: ...!uunet!isc-br!thor!steveh\n: the bulls**t.\" - R. Hofferbert | Ma Bell: 509 838-8826\n\n\nIncidentally, this is a libertarian newsgroup, you can get away with\nsaying, \"bullshit\" here. You're welcome,\n", "Thanks to whoever posted this wonderful parody of people who post without \nreading the FAQ! I was laughing for a good 5 minutes. Were there any \nparts of the FAQ that weren't mentioned? I think there might have been one\nor two...\n\nPlease don't tell me this wasn't a joke. I'm not ready to hear that yet...", ":>It looks like Dorothy Denning's wrong-headed ideas have gotten to the\n:>Administration even sooner than we feared.\n:\n:I'd lay long odds that it was the other way around. Clinton didn't\n:just pull this plan out of any bodily orifices; the NSA has to have\n:been working on it for years. While it's possible that Denning (and\n:other prominent people) just happened to start arguing for such a\n:system, it seems more likely that there was a suggestion involved.\n:If this guess is wrong, I apologize.\n\nI'm sure Dorothy Denning is an honest person and wouldn't lie to us.\nSimply think up a question to ask her about her involvement, but be\nvery careful to phrase it in such a way that there can be no Jesuitical\nevasion or a true but wholly misleading answer.\n\nIn this country, MI5 are *experts* at answering these questions; for\ninstance there was a British journalist (Jonathon Moyle) killed in South\nAmerica a couple of years ago. Parliament asked \"Was he an MI5 employee\"\n\"No.\" - turns out afterwards he wasn't paid, therefore wasn't an employee.\nThey could equally have said he wasn't an agent - he went abroad on his\nprivate business with no brief from MI5, but was interviewed and debriefed\nat length only *on his return*.", "\nThe screws are Torx screws and the tool isn't to hard to find. It's a\nmatter of finding one with a long enough shaft to do the trick. \n \nNo it is not a good idea to take that fan out. Why because it will\ncause stuff to over heat. Internal hard drives, motherboard...You name\nit and this can cause damage. I've known people to have hard drive\nfailures because of fans that didn't work right....\n", "\ntest\n", "\n\nThis book is worth a read to get a sensible view of this issue.\n\n\nThe book is in two sections. Section 1 contains a fairly reasonable\nanalysis of the Bible, showing many inconsistencies between the Bible\nand modern science. Well we all know that, no surprises.\n\nSection 2 analyses the Koran's version of the Old Testament stories,\nand seems, on the face of it, to present a good case showing the Koran\nis consistent with modern science. However, it was plain to me, that\nthis consistency was only possible by the vague phraseology of the\nKoran. Take the flood, for example, the bible is full of detail,\n(\"forty days and forty nights\", \"pair of every animal\", etc.), we all\nknow this is nonsense. The Koran's description of the same event is\nso obscure as to make possible an interpretation such as \"A big river \nflooded for a few days and caused much damage\". Yes, no contradiction\nbut also not much fact.\n\nThe Koran might be consistent with modern science, but being\nconsistent due to its vagueness compared with other books of that\ntime, does not seem much of an achievement.\n\nThe book concludes by saying something like, the Koran must have had\ndivine inspiration because at the time it was written there were a lot\nof (to us now) ridiculous ideas about the universe, and none of them\ncan be found in the Koran! Arguing for the greatness of a book by\ntalking about what it does not contain seems absurd in the extreme.\n\nThe above is, of course, from memory so I may have missed some points.\n\n\n\n-- ", "A question regarding the Islamic view towards homosexuality came up in a\ndiscussion group that I participate in, and I'd like to ask the question here,\n\n\"What is the Islamic view towards homosexuality?\" ", "<\n<>If the Clinton Clipper is so very good, [...]\n<\nBTW - those who suggest that this is just an attack on Clinton, believe\n<>this: I would be going ballistic reagardless WHO seriously proposed\n<>this thing. It is just another step in a gradual erosion of our rights\n<>under the Constitution or Bill of Rights. The last couple of decades\n<>have been a non-stop series of end-runs around the protections of the\n<>Constitution. It has to stop. Now is as good a time as any, if it\n<>isn't too late allready.\n<\n. It will be posted to a\nvariety of newsgroups on a monthly basis; follow-up discussion specific\nto RIPEM is redirected to the group alt.security.ripem.\n\nThis month, I have reformatted this posting in an attempt to comply\nwith the standards for HyperText FAQ formatting to allow easy\nmanipulation of this document over the World Wide Web. Let me know\nwhat you think.\n\nDISCLAIMER\n----------\nNothing in this FAQ should be considered legal advice, or anything\nother than one person's opinion. If you want real legal advice, talk\nto a real lawyer.\n\nQUESTIONS AND ANSWERS\n---------------------\n\n1) What is RIPEM?\n\n RIPEM is a program which performs Privacy Enhanced Mail (PEM) using\n the cryptographic techniques of RSA and DES. It allows your\n electronic mail to have the properties of authentication (i.e. who\n sent it can be confirmed) and privacy (i.e. nobody can read it except\n the intended recipient.)\n\n RIPEM was written primarily by Mark Riordan .\n Most of the code is in the public domain, except for the RSA routines,\n which are a library called RSAREF licensed from RSA Data Security Inc.\n\n2) How can I get RIPEM?\n\n RIPEM contains the library of cryptographic routines RSAREF, which is\n considered munitions and thus is export-restricted from distribution\n to people who are not citizens or permanent residents of the U.S. or\n Canada. Therefore, the following request is quoted from the README\n file:\n\n #Please do not export the cryptographic code in this distribution\n #outside of the USA or Canada. This is a personal request from me,\n #the author of RIPEM, and a condition of your use of RIPEM.\n\n Note that RSAREF is not in the public domain, and a license for it is\n included with the distribution. You should read it before using\n RIPEM.\n\n The best way to get it is to ask a friend for a copy, since this will\n reduce the load on those sites that do carry it (not to mention the\n humans that run them.) Naturally this requires that you trust the\n friend.\n\n RIPEM is available via anonymous FTP to citizens and permanent residents\n in the U.S. from rsa.com; cd to rsaref/ and read the README file for\n info. Last I looked, this site contains only the source tree, and\n does not contain compiled binaries or the nice Mac version.\n\n RIPEM, as well as some other crypt stuff, has its \"home site\" on\n rpub.cl.msu.edu, which is open to non-anonymous FTP for users in the\n U.S. and Canada who are citizens or permanent residents. To find out\n how to obtain access, ftp there, cd to pub/crypt/, and read the file\n GETTING_ACCESS. For convenience, binaries for many architectures are\n available here in addition to the full source tree.\n\n3) Will RIPEM run on my machine?\n\n Probably. It has already been ported to MS-DOS and most flavors of\n Unix (SunOS, NeXT, Linux, AIX, ULTRIX, Solaris, etc.) Ports to\n Macintosh include a standard UNIX-style port and a rather nice\n Mac-like port written by Raymond Lau, author of StuffIt. More ports\n are expected, and help of users is invited.\n\n4) Will RIPEM work with my mailer?\n\n Probably. How easy and clean the effective interface is will depend\n on the sophistication and modularity of the mailer, though. The users\n guide, included with the distribution, discusses ways to use RIPEM\n with many popular mailers, including Berkeley, mush, Elm, and MH.\n Code is also included in elisp to allow easy use of RIPEM inside GNU\n Emacs.\n\n If you make a new interface for RIPEM or create an improvement on one\n in the distribution which you believe is convenient to use, secure,\n and may be useful to others, feel free to post it to alt.security.ripem.\n\n5) What is RSA?\n\n RSA is a crypto system which is asymmetric, or public-key. This means\n that there are two different, related keys: one to encrypt and one to\n decrypt. Because one cannot (reasonably) be derived from the other,\n you may publish your encryption, or public key widely and keep your\n decryption, or private key to yourself. Anyone can use your public\n key to encrypt a message, but only you hold the private key needed to\n decrypt it. (Note that the \"message\" sent with RSA is normally just\n the DES key to the real message. (See \"What is DES?\")\n\n Note that the above only provides for privacy. For authentication,\n the fingerprint of the message (See \"What is a fingerprint, like\n MD5?\") is encrypted with the sender's private key. The recipient can\n use the sender's public key to decrypt it and confirm that the message\n must have come from the sender.\n\n RSA was named for the three men (Rivest, Shamir and Adleman) who\n invented it. To find out more about RSA, ftp to rsa.com and look in\n pub/faq/ or look in sci.crypt.\n\n6) What is DES?\n\n DES is the Data Encryption Standard, a widely used symmetric, or\n secret-key, crypto system. Unlike RSA, DES uses the same key to\n encrypt and decrypt messages. However, DES is much faster than RSA.\n\n RIPEM uses both DES and RSA; it generates a random key and encrypts\n your mail with DES using that key. It then encrypts that key with the\n recipient's public RSA key and includes the result in the letter,\n allowing the recipient to recover the DES key.\n\n DES is sometimes considered weak because it is somewhat old and uses a\n key length considered too short by modern standards. However, it\n should be reasonably safe against an opponent smaller than a large\n corporation or government agency. It is not unlikely that future\n RIPEMs will strengthen the symmetric cipher, possibly by using\n multiple encryption with DES.\n\n7) What is PEM, and how does RIPEM relate?\n\n PEM is Privacy Enhanced Mail, a system for allowing easy transfer of\n encrypted electronic mail. It is described in RFCs 1421-1424; these\n documents have been approved and obsolete the old RFCs 1113-1115.\n\n RIPEM is not really a complete implementation of PEM, because PEM\n specifies certificates for authenticating keys, which RIPEM does not\n handle at this time. Their addition is planned.\n\n8) What's this about distributing and authenticating keys?\n\n For a remote user to be able to send secure mail to you, she must know\n your public key. For you to be able to confirm that the message\n received came from her, you must know her public key. It is important\n that this information be accurate; if a \"bad guy\" convinces her that\n his key is in fact yours, she will send messages which he can read.\n\n RIPEM allows for three methods of key management: a central server,\n the distributed finger servers, and a flat file. All three are\n described in the RIPEM users guide which is part of the distribution.\n None of them provide perfect security.\n\n9) Why do all RIPEM public keys look very similar?\n\n RIPEM public keys begin with a PKCS identifier describing various\n characteristics about the key, so the first bunch of characters in\n your key may be the same as those of lots of other people's keys.\n This does not mean your keys are similar, but only that they are the\n same class of key, were generated with the same program, are of the\n same length, etc.\n\n10) What is a fingerprint, like MD5?\n\n MD5 is a message digest algorithm produced by RSA Data Security Inc.\n It provides a 128-bit fingerprint, or cryptographically secure hash,\n of the plaintext. It is cryptographically secure because it is not\n possible (in a reasonable amount of computation) to produce a\n different plaintext which produces the same fingerprint. Thus,\n instead of signing the entire message with the sender's private key,\n only the MD5 of the message needs to be signed for authentication.\n\n MD5 is sometimes used for other purposes; for example, it is often\n used to map an input of arbitrary length to 128 bits of data, as a\n passphrase interpreter or cookie generator.\n\n MD5 is described in its entirety (including an implementation in C) in\n RFC 1321.\n\n11) What is PGP?\n\n PGP is another cryptographic mail program called Pretty Good Privacy.\n PGP has been around longer than RIPEM, and works somewhat differently.\n PGP is not compatible with RIPEM in any way, though PGP does also use RSA.\n\n Some major differences between PGP and RIPEM:\n\n - PGP has more key management features, particularly for users without\n a direct network connection.\n\n - RIPEM conforms to the PEM RFCs and thus has a greater probability of\n working with other PEM software. PGP makes no attempt to be compatible\n with anything other than PGP (in fact, PGP 1.0 is not compatible with\n PGP 2.0.)\n\n - RIPEM uses RSAREF, a library of RSA routines from RSA Data Security\n Inc. RSAREF comes with a license which allows noncommercial use.\n PGP uses its own implementation of RSA which is not licensed; thus,\n PKP, the firm holding the U.S. patents on the RSA algorithm, claims\n that it is a infringement of that patent to make, use or sell PGP in\n the U.S. or Canada. In acknowledgement of this, PGP's original\n author, Phil Zimmermann, says in the documentation:\n\n #In fact, if you live in the USA, and you are not a Federal agency, \n #you shouldn't actually run PGP on your computer, because Public\n #Key Partners wants to forbid you from running my software. PGP is\n #contraband. \n\n - Both PGP and RIPEM are export-restricted, and cannot be sent outside\n the U.S. and Canada. However, PGP already exists on many ftp sites\n in Europe and other places.\n\n Whether you use PGP or RIPEM or whatever, the documentation to PGP is\n recommended reading to anyone interested in such issues.\n\n Note that the above facts, both regarding patent and export\n restrictions, are somewhat controversial; many people think it\n shouldn't be that way, and some people interpret various documents\n differently. Unfortunately, discussions of it on the net inevitably\n seem to produce more heat than light, and probably belong in\n misc.legal.computing. (See: \"DISCLAIMER\")\n\n12) What about RPEM?\n\n RPEM stands for Rabin Privacy Enhanced Mail. It was similar to RIPEM,\n but used a public-key cipher invented by Rabin (which is not RSA) in\n an attempt to avoid the patent on RSA. It was written by Mark\n Riordan, the same author as RIPEM.\n\n Its distribution was halted when, contrary to the beliefs of many\n (including Rabin), Public Key Partners (PKP) claimed that their patent\n was broad enough to cover any public-key cipher whose strength rested\n in the difficulty of factoring products of large primes, not just RSA.\n This claim is not universally accepted by any means, but was not\n challenged for pragmatic reasons.\n\n RPEM is not really used anymore. It is not compatible with RIPEM or PGP.\n\n13) What is MIME?\n\n MIME stands for Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions, and is\n described in RFC 1341. You can find out about it in the newsgroup\n comp.mail.mime. How PEM should interact with MIME is not yet entirely\n clear; some people use the stopgap solution of having a MIME type\n application/x-ripem in order to send RIPEM messages as MIME ones. I\n hope some standards will emerge. Draft Internet documents exist on\n the matter.\n\n14) I have this simple way to defeat the security of RIPEM...", "\n\n\n\nIs this still in print or available (other than on loan)? I remember\nreading this many years ago and it's still the best thing I remember\nin this vein.\n\n-- \n\"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live\n in the real world.\" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden", "The message from the NIST about the clipper chip comes from the\nfollowing address:\n\n\tclipper@csrc.ncsl.nist.gov (Clipper Chip Announcement)\n\nJust who is that, I asked myself, or rather, I asked the computer.\n\n % telnet csrc.ncsl.nist.gov 25\n Trying...\n Connected to csrc.ncsl.nist.gov.\n Escape character is '^]'.\n 220 first.org sendmail 4.1/NIST ready at Sat, 17 Apr 93 20:42:56 EDT\n expn clipper\n 250-\n 250-\n 250-\n 250-\n 250-\n 250-\n 250-\n 250-\n 250-\n 250-\n 250-\n 250 \n quit\n 221 first.org closing connection\n Connection closed.\n\nWell, isn't that interesting. Dorothy Denning, Mitch Kapor, Marc\nRotenberg, Ron Rivest, Jim Bidzos, and others. The Government, RSA,\nTIS, CPSR, and the EFF are all represented. I don't suppose anybody\nwithin any of these organizations would care to comment? Or is this\njust the White House's idea of a cruel joke on these peoples' inboxes?\n\n\t\tMarc", "\n[stuff deleted]\n\n\nAh, clarification by obfuscation.\n\nActually, the words \"A well regulated Milita, being necessary to the\nsecurity of a free state\" is a present participle, used as an\nadjective to modify 'militia', which is followed by the main clause of\nthe sentence, the subject being 'the right', the verb 'shall'. It\nasserts that the right to keep and bear arms is essential for\nmaintaining a milita. The sentence doesn't restrict the right, or\nstate or imply possession of the right by anyone or anything other\nthan the people. All it does is make a positive statement regarding a\nright of the people. The PEOPLE, as in you and me, as in the First,\nFourth, Ninth, Tenth, as well as the Second amendment.\nThe existence of this right is assumed - it is not granted by the\namendment. There is no stated or implied condition relating the right\nto bear arms to the necessity of a well-regulated militia to the security of\na free state.\nIn other words, the entire sentence says that the right to keep and\nbear arms is UNCONDITIONAL.\n\n\n\nThe final word on liberties and rights should not belong \"to the\nmany\". That is why we have a Constitution. Otherwise, a tyrrany of\nthe majority can ensue from \"popular\" opinion, a concept which you\nshould be familiar with from the Federalist papers.", "\nIs there another book. I have this one and don't find it helpfull in \nlearning Spice. It would make a good reference book but I found it lacking\nfor learning Spice. Are there any others?\n\nCraig\n", "Has anyone read this important book? If so, what are your feelings about it?\n\nFrank", "Clinton has backed off from the $16 billion jobs bill.\n\n\tWord is he's paring it down to the core: jobless benefits, money for\ncreating full time jobs (ie, no summer jobs money).\n\n\tChalk one up for holding the line on spending.", "[...]\n[...]\n\nAgain -- I'm extremely sorry about this.. I got this message several \nmonths ago (quite a bit before the clipper chip proposal) when it was posted\nto a different newsgroup. It was very startling to me as well, and I guess\nI should of verified the source at least to some extent before reposting..\n\nAaack.. ", ": : So what is Kibology? Chopped liver?\n: Kibo Himself summed it up by saying \"Kibology is not just a religion, it is\n: also a candy mint ... and a floor wax.\" I personally think that it is more\n: like Spam Clear.\n: : ", "In case you missed it on the news....the first 16 Haitians\nof many that tested positive for HIV and were being held on a\nbase in Cuba have been flown to the U.S.\n Further a U.S. judge has ruled that they must receive\nmedical treatment or be returned to a place where they could\nreceive same.\n\n So guess what folks, we taxpayers get to pick up the tab \n(just as you might have expected) for people who have never\ncontributed a dime to the U.S. society.", "[deleted]\n[] And as far as fully-automatic weapons, you can be a lot better\n[]armed if you want to hit what you aim at.\n[]\n\nDefine \"armed better\". Go shoot a revolver and a semi-auto like the\nColt .45. Does one fires faster than the other? Nope. Aside from which\nfaster rate of fire is usually not desirable. Sure it makes the other\nguys duck for cover, but just *YOU* trying hitting anything with a Thompson\nin hose-mode. This is why the military is limiting it's M-16 now to\n3-round burst-fire. Simple semi-auto would be better, but the troops\nlike to be able to rock and roll even if it is wasteful of ammo (something\noften in short supply when the enemy is plentiful).\n\nA revolver is equally capable as a semi-auto in the same caliber.\n\n- A revolver also has the advantage that if it misfires you just pull\n the trigger again.\n- A double-action revolver (almost all of them) can be hand-cocked first,\n but will fire merely by pulling the trigger.\n- A misfire in a revolver merely means you must pull the trigger again\n to rotate to the next round.\n- A revolver can be carried with the 6th chamber empty and under the\n hammer for maximum safety, but still can be drawn and fired with an\n easy motion, even one handed.\n- Speedloaders for a revolver allow reloads almost as fast as magazines\n on semi-autos. Can be faster depending on users.\n\n- A misfire in a semi-auto will require you to clear a jammed shell\n first, time spent which can be fatal. And a vital second or so is often\n lost as you realize \"hey, it's jammed!\" before starting to do anything\n about clearing it.\n- Most semi-autos must have the slide worked to chamber the first round\n and cock the hammer. Some police carry their semi-autos with the \n chamber loaded and hammer cocked, but a safety engaged. I do not consider\n this safe however. You must trade-off safety to get the same speed\n of employment as a revolver.\n- There are some double-action semi-autos out there, but the complexity of\n operation of many of them requires more training.\n\nSome police departments switched to Glocks, and then started quietly\nswitching many officers back to the old revolvers. Too many were having\naccidents, partly due to the poor training they received. Not that Glocks\nrequire rocket scientists, but some cops are baffled by something as complex\nas the timer on a VCR.\n\nAnyone who goes anyone saying that the criminals obviously outgun\nthe police don't know nothing about firearms. Turn off COPS and Hunter\nand pay attention. I do not seek here to say \"semi-autos are junk\"\nmerely that assuming they are better for all jobs is stupid. A cop\nwith a revolver on his hip and a shotgun in the rack is more than\nequipped for anything short of a riot.\n\nGun control is hitting what you aim at. If you whip out a \nwonder-nine and fire real fast you may find you don't hit anything.\nGood controlled fire from a revolver is more likely to get you a hit.\nI own a 9mm Beretta myself but consider it inferior as a carry weapon\nto something like the Ruger Security Six revolver. If I haven't hit\nwhat I'm aiming at in the first 5 shots, something is quite seriously\nwrong somewheres. While I might like having the backup capacity of those\nextra shots in certain cases, overwhelmingly the # of shots fired in\ncriminal encounters is less than 5.\n\nWhat do crooks overwhelmingly use in crime? Why the same nice simple\n.38 revolvers that the police often use. Well actually some police \nprefer the much heftier .357 Magnum, but anyway.....\n\nObPlea: Don't flame me, I prefer semi-autos for most things. But they \n introduce unneccessary complications to something as nerve-wracking\n as an abrupt encounter with a lone criminal.\n", "\n\nIf you were able to prove that morality is objective, then it would\nbe correct to do so. The problem is, by the very meaning of the\nwords in question, to do so is oxymoronic. Of course you could\nredefine the words, but that would still not lend support to the\nunderlying concept.\n\n\nThis does not parse. How could you hardly be wrong without dragging\nin the o-word?\n\n\nI have no problem with objectivity at all. It is my objectivity that\nhas led me to conclude that morality is subjective.\n", "\n\n\tThe *POWER* of the word processor and a stamp at work.\nThe fact that around here the state rep generally lives no more than\nnine miles from any constituent doesn't hurt, either.", " \n(Deletion)\n \nSorry, Gregg, it was no answer to a post of mine. And you are quite\nfond of using abusing language whenever you think your religion is\nmisrepresented. By the way, I have no trouble telling me apart from\nBob Beauchaine.\n \n \nI still wait for your answer to that the Quran allows you to beat your wife\ninto submission. You were quite upset about the claim that it was in it,\nto be more correct, you said it wasn't.\n \nI asked you about what your consequences were in case it would be in the\nQuran, but you have simply ceased to respond on that thread. Can it be\nthat you have found out in the meantime that it is the Holy Book?", "\n\n\nI hope you realize how trivial it is to manufacture these compounds. Given\nabout $10k in lab equipment and chemicals (which are commercially available)\nand given the knowledge that I have (graduating BS, Ch, 1993) I could \nsynthesize enough of these compounds to make a serious dent in the population\nof several major US cities. As also noted, the knowledge is there for\nthe production of nuclear weapons. It's not even that restricted. The\nonly thing is the expense. \n\nNow I'm not going around making these things, but it's not 'cause of any\nlaw; I simply don't get any marginal benefit out of killing anyone. Any\nlaw you enact in this respect is only going to give you the ability to \nadd a charge against someone who does make and use said weapons. In the\ncase of chemical agents, I seriously doubt that you would even know that\nsomeone had set up a lab until after the weapons had been used. \n\nPart of the trouble with the chemical-weapons ban treaty between the US\nand the USSR is that many of the precursors to chemical weapons such as\nGB and Sarin, etc., is that they have very valid commercial uses, and \nit is very easy to divert those precursors to chemical weapons manufacture\nwithout anyone knowing about it.\n\n\n", "\n\tThis was not stated nor implied. Try asking.\n\n\tThis is laughable. Licenses? Right. So then I would need a\n\tlicense to possess chlorine gas? It is a weapons grade poison.\n\tWould I be breaking the law then if I were to, say, pour Chlorox\n\ton the spot where my cat pissed on the floor? The reaction of\n\tammonia and bleach liberates pure chlorine gas. Do I go to jail\n\tfor this? Why or why not?\n\n\tWould I need a license to possess other chemical agents? What about\n\tnicotine? Deadly poison, and rather fast acting. Must I now become\n\tlicensed to posess tobacco? And what about nicotine sulphate, an even\n\tdeadlier poison? Will I need a license to possess this type of \n\tinsecticide? What about Raid(tm)? Black Flag? Gasoline? Benzene?\n\tHydrazine (a violent poison)?\n\n\tWill I go to jail for possessing a can of tomatoes that went bad with\n\tbotulinus?\n\n\tWhat about my mom & pop QC lab where I use cyanogen bromide (mustard\n\tgas) to do lot analysis on certain non-prescription pharmaceuticals?\n\n\tWhat if I wish to use potassium cyanide to recover gold from aqua\n\tregia? A license? \n\n\tWould I need a license to possess Beryllium, perhaps the most poisonous\n\tnon-radioactive metal? How about Beryllium-Copper alloy?\n\n\tDo I need a license for nitrate fertilizers which *could* be used to\n\tmake VERY powerful explosive devices such as the one that the IRA\n\trecently detonated, killing 1 and injuring 45?\n\n\tCan I have vinegar without license? Hydrogen peroxide? Where is the \n\tline drawn? \n", "I got a question from my dad which I really can't answer and I'd appreciate\nsome net.wisdom.\n\nHis question is about some 18-24\" diameter balls which are attached to\nelectric power lines in his area. He's seen up to a half dozen between\ntwo poles. Neither of us have any experience with electric power distribution.\nMy only guess was that they may be a capacitive device to equalize the\ninductance of the grid, but why so many between two poles?.\n\nAnyone know what they really are? Is there a related FAQ for this?\nIs there a better group to submit to?\n\nWe'd both appreciate some enlightenment.\n\n", "Hello,\n\nI am looking for carbon-doped rubber. Or an highly elastic material that changes its resistivity, or some\nother electrical property when streched.\n\nIf you could email me any info you may have on material names or companies that make the stuff\nit would be highly appreaciated.", "I think he means Girlie Photography. A good place to find it is in\nnon-descript little places that usually just say \"Books\" on the\noutside of the building in black and white.\n\n\n-- ", "\n\nMuslims already have, they accepted the Vance Owen plan that gives\n50% of the population (Serbian statistics put it at 44%) only 25%\nof the territory. They gave some totally Muslim villages and areas\nto Croatia and Serbia, they in effect gave the Serbs the land they grabbed \nwhile slaughtering the Muslims anbd raping their women and expelling\nthe survivors.\n\nStill the Serbs (NOT BOSNIAN SERBS because the real Bosnian Serbs are\nfighting with Muslims to defend Bosnia from Serbs, those so called \nBosnian Serbs refused to be part of Bosnia and wanted a greater Serbia),\nstill those Serbs refused, they have the necessary weapons to kill\nmore Muslims and grab more territory.", "Ok, someone is fundamentalist, someone else is not.\nWhat defines a fundamentalist (Not who!!!!!!!!!).\nThat is an essential question which nobody has agreed upon an answer,\nat least to what literature / discussion / news i've seen..\n", "A person sees the front of their home is strewn with garbage. That\nperson removes the trash, and sweeps the sidewalk. His next door neigh-\nbors have not. The person then approaches his two neighbors and talks\nto them about cleaning the front of their homes, and why it would be\ngood for their own living conditions, and that of the neighborhood.\n There's nothing wrong with holding your neighbors accountable for\ntheir actions. That is the basis for a viable, safe community.\n\nRegards,", "\nWell, watching several Denizen's dismantle Laurie's Virago in an\nattempt to change the oil at the ride 'n feed a few years back was a\npretty funny site. Surely with the combined wisdom of all these folks\nthey weren't doing things the hard way, were they?", "\nI strongly disagree. I think most pirating is done by amateurs, who won't\ncopy the program if \"diskcopy\" can't do it.\nIf you're talking a 20% max goal of pirated copies, I bet that anything that\nwill beat diskcopy, and can't be easily copied from a hard drive, will\nsuffice.\nI hate hard copy manuals, and would rather have all docs online - *not*\nbecause I want to copy the program, but because its usually faster and\nand convenient than sifting through an old book I can't find.\n\nOff deeper end-> Why does everyone think they need to be able to make a \nbackup copy? Almost all new software must be installed to the hard disk,\nso you are left with the originals as your backups. I think its a waste\nof time, space, and money, as well as it makes it to tempting to \"lend\"\nout the backups. \n\n\nNo flames intended - just my thoughts.", ".........\nI, some years ago, almost became a victim of this. Squirted a fair amount in\nan old model 15 Teletype which was acting up, then turned it on. The eruption\nwhen the motor starting contacts broke was mighty spectacular... I almost got\nmy eyebrows singed, the plastic (old ones had safety glass) cover over the\nplaten, etc flew across the room, and several people in the room almost had\nheart attacks. Beware the explosive properties of WD40 vapor.\n", "\nJehovah's Witnesses do not believe that Christians are required to observe\nthe Sabbath, whether it is on Saturday or Sunday. The Sabbath was part\nof a Covenent between God and the Israelites and is not required for\nChristians.", "\n[deleted]\n\n\nKeep in mind this was in Massachussetts. Today was Patriots Day, a state\nholiday. I think it might be a floating holiday, but given that the\nMarathon also happens the same day, most people don't go in.\n\n\n-- \n\n#include ", "\nNo, if you put a conductor in a changing magnetic field, it produces a voltage.\nThe two ways you can do that with a permanent magnet is to move the magnet or\nmove the conductor. The slow shifting of the Earth's magnetic field isn't\nreally significant, especially when you consider how weak the Earth's magnetic\nfield is to begin with.\n\n\nWell, it would require generating an incredibly large magnetic field to repel\nthe Earth's magnetic field (as a magnet can repel another magnet). Of course,\nthis force only works in one direction, and the magnetic field generated has\nto be unimaginably powerful. Magnetic repulsion drops off as 1/r^3, and the\nearth's magnetic field on the surface is already very weak. It would require\nsome sort of unknown superconductor, and special nonmagnetic construction.\nAnd seriously hardenned electronics (optical computers, perhaps). And the\nphysiological danger would be significant (due to the iron content in our\nblood, among other things). In other words, forget it.\n\n\nI missed out on the \"dragless satellite\" thread, but it sounds totally bogus,\nfrom this little bit.", "\nI don't know about C-5's, but on C-130's which are regularly used\nfor Medium haul Personnel transport by the Army, only have a\nfunnel and a garden hose in the aft. The female personnel\nhate long trips in the box cars.", "\nShe hasn't. Dorothy Denning has spent many years earning the\nprofessional respect of her colleagues, and something won in this\nmanner is not easily lost. Her support of the clipper -- no matter\nhow unpopular that position may be -- serves far more to enhance the\nclipper's respectability than to diminish her own.\n\n :: Jeff Makey", "\nI agree with the body of your post, but please reconsider your phrasing\nhere. I think these ideas are selfish AND rational, which\nis commendable.\n\nDon't give selfishness a bad rap. If we were all selfless there would\nbe no moral reason NOT to have a draft. It [the draft] is the ultimate \nin mindlessly serving your fellow man with no thought to the importance\nof the self.", "THE WHITE HOUSE\n\n Office of the Press Secretary\n\n_____________________________________________________________________\nFor Immediate Release April 5, 1993\n\n\n PRESS BRIEFING\n BY GEORGE STEPHANOPOLOUS\n\n\n The Briefing Room\n\n\n 10:10 A.M. EDT\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: As you know, the President is soon \nto be on his way, on Amtrack to Camden Yards. He'll be throwing out \nthe first pitch.\n\t \n\t Q\t It's MARC, the Maryland Area Transit, it's not \nAmtrack.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Oh, it's not Amtrack? Well, he's \ngoing from Union Station, you're right. Excuse me.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, what exactly are you prepared to do to \nbreak the logjam with ??? Senate?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, as you know, there are \ndiscussions between Senator Mitchell and Senator Dole this morning, \nand I think that the President is going to continue to make the point \nthat he believes that our investment package, our jobs package needs \nto be passed as quickly as possible. We need this investment for \nsummer jobs, for immunization, for highway construction, for the \nimportant programs that will put people back to work right away this \nsummer. And the President continues to believe his program should be \npassed.\n\t \n\t Q\t Will he compromise, that's the question?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, as you know, the discussions \nare going on this morning in the Senate betwen Senator Mitchell and \nSenator Dole, let's see what they come up with. But the President \nbelieves his jobs program should go forward.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, would the President be willing to accept $8 \nbillion for one year, which apparently appears to be the compromise \nbeing offered by --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, I don't know what is being \noffered by either side. The Senate discussions are going on right \nnow, let's see what happens today.\n\t \n\t Q\t Would he go that far -- no matter what the \nRepublicans have offered so far, would he go that far, $8 billion per \nyear?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The President believes that his \nprogram should be passed at this time. Clearly, we're going to be \nwilling to listen to what the Senators might or might not be able to \ncome up with, but I'm not going to get into figures right now. Let's \nsee what happens.\n\t \n\t Q\t It's reasonable to assume, isn't it, from what has \nhappened so far that a compromise is going to be necessary in order \nto get a vote?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, the Republicans seem more \nintrested in stopping progress on the President's jobs bill, than in \ndoing something to create -- MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, the \nRepublicans seem more interested in stopping progress on the \nPresident's jobs bill than in doing something to create real action, \nreal jobs this summer for the American people. I think there's no \nquestion about that. There's been some frustration of legislative \nactivity over the last few days.\n\t \n\t Q\t So, you'll need to compromise to get your package \nthrough?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: We'll see what happens with the \nconversations between Senator Mitchell and Senator Dole this morning.\n\t \n\t Q\t prepared to compromise --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The President's prepared to listen \nto what Senator Mitchell has to say this morning after his meeting \nwith Senator Dole. \n\t \n\t Q\t Does he feel that he has been defeated in his --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Not in the least. In fact, he's \nbeen very successful so far in the beginning of his term.\n\t \n\t Q\t How?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: He passed his budget in record \ntime, in six weeks, and it's a budget which reduces the deficit by \n$500 billion over five years. And it's a budget which provides for \nimportant investments in our future. Right now we've also had strong \npassage of his jobs program through the House. Simply because a \nminority of Republicans in the Senate choose to perpetuate gridlock \nand hold up action on the President's jobs program is not a sign that \nhe is not succeeding overall.\n\t \n\t Q\t He can't beat this, can he?\n\t \n\t Q\t The fact is they can do that?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, the Republicans can stop \naction. There's no question about that.\n\t \n\t Q\t What are you going to do about it?\n\t \n\t Q\t George, what do you know about these alleged notes \ntaken by Boris Yeltsin during one of the meetings in which it appears \nthat the President told Boris Yeltsin not to trust the Japanese; that \nwhen they say yes they mean no?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think that's a complete \nmisreading of what happened at the meeting. The context of the \nconversation was that President Clinton was actually reassuring \nPresident Yeltsin at the time about his conversations with Prime \nMinister Miyazawa over the Kuril Islands and the Prime Minister's \nbelief that Japan would play a constructive role in the G-7 process. \nI mean this was a casual comment about Japanese courtesy and \netiquette but overall it was in the context of a conversation where \nhe was reassuring President Yeltsin that he believed the Japanese \nwere serious about their commitment to the G-7 process.\n\t \n\t Q\t Are you saying that the President said that when \nthe Japanese say yes they mean no?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: That's not -- I don't know the \nexact words and there was a much longer discussion about he did say \nsomething along the lines that he believes that on this issue Prime \nMinister Miyazawa intends to really go forward with the G-7 process.\n\t \n\t Q\t Have there been any attempts to explain this to the \nJapanese because apparently the Japanese press has picked this up and \nthere appears to be --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I've seen the reports in the \nJapanese press and it actually does put the situation in context. It \ndoes talk about the Japanese -- understanding the Japanese points of \nview. I don't think it's going to be a problem. I believe that \nthere may have been some diplomatic context just to clear things up \nbut I'm not positive.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, was the specific comment that was made \nspecific to the Kuril Island situation or was it a general \nobservation on Japanese etiquette?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The discussion was about --\n\t \n\t Q\t The specific comment is what I'm asking about that \nhas alleged to have been translated from the Russian notes, \"when the \nJapanese say yes they mean no.\"\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, it was a combination. I mean \nI don't think that's the whole sentence. I think that the specific \ncomment was a broad, general observation followed up by a specific \nfinish to the sentence where he said in this case he believes that \nPrime Minister Miyazawa means to keep the commitment.\n\t \n\t Q\t Was he saying it facetiously first?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think it was just a casual \nobservation.\n\t \n\t Q\t And then you say diplomatic contacts were made to \nclear it up. Has the President sent a message?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No, I don't think the President \nspoke; I believe that Secretary Christopher has made some calls but \nI'm not sure exactly how many.\n\t \n\t Q\t Well, this obviously is a bigger deal than you're \nmaking it out to be if Christopher has had to make some calls.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No, no. It was just that we got \nthe reports in Vancouver and the Secretary wanted to make sure that \nit was understood and make sure there was absolutely no \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: -- reports in Vancouver, and the \nSecretary wanted to make sure that it was understood, and make sure \nthere is absolutely no misunderstanding, and I don't believe there is \non.\n\t \n\t Q\t What is our position about the Japanese? That they \nmay have to say one thing, but actualy mean another?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No. The position on the Japanese \nis as the President stated to President Yeltsin throughout the two \ndays. He said that he had had a good conversation with Prime \nMinister Miazawa prior to the Summit. He reiterated the U.S. \nposition, the long-standing support for the Japanese position on the \nKuril Islands, but also reiterated Prime Minister Miazawa's \ncommitment to move forward on the G-7 process and to play a \nconstructive role. And I think President Yeltsin was very glad to \nhear that.\n\t \n\t Q\t After listening to Secretary Christopher on Iraq \nfor the last few days, I'm a little confused. What is the U.S. \npolicy? Do you want to see Saddam Hussein overturned?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: It's the same policy that Secretary \nChristopher has reiterated, and all of the U.S officials have \nreiterated. We expect full and complete and unequivocal compliance \nwith all U.N. resolutions. Right now we do not have that compliance.\n\t \n\t Q\t throwing it out further that if Iraq complies, \nSaddam can't stay in office?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Right. I think that that's -- our \njudgment is that it is not possible for Saddam Hussein to comply with \nthe resolutions and stay in power. But the important point is that \nwe expect compliance by Iraq with all U.N. resolutions, and we will \ncontinue to demand it.\n\t \n\t Q\t And are you concerned the Iran will become the \ndominant power in the area --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Secretary Christopher has also \nspoken to Iran over the last several days, and he says we also expect \nfull Iranian compliance with all international norms, and stopping \nsupport of terrorism.\n\t \n\t Q\t That's a very glib statement that he won't stay in \npower if he complies with U.N. resolutions. On what logic do you \nbase that?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Right now Saddam Hussein is not \ncomplying with the U.N. resolutions at all. He is not respecting the \nrights of his people, as is required by the U.N. resolution. He is \nnot fully complying with all the resolutions regarding inspections. \nHe is not fully complying with all the resolutions regarding \narmaments.\n\t \n\t Q\t Well, when do you think that if he did comply he \nwould be out of power?\n\n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, right now his power rests on \nthe repression of his people. If he stopped doing that it would make \nit more difficult for him to stay in power.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, back on the stimulus package, why is it \nthat you and the President accuse the Republicans of playing pure \npolitics and perpetuating gridlock? Why is it that -- what evidence \ndo you have that they just don't have a genuine idealogical \ndifference with you that's in good faith?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, the fact that several times \nin the past the Republicans, many of the ones who are now leading the \nfight for the filibuster, have supported the very funding they now \nseek to stop, most especially, the highway funding. \n\t \n\t Q\t George, in regards to that, some of the moderate \nRepublicans said that the White House erred by not being more open to \nthem during the -- while the plan was put together, that they had \none, sort of, proforma meeting between the White House and the Senate \nRepublicans, and that was it. Does the Administration look back and \nthinks perhaps it could have done a better job of working with some -\n-\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, I'm not sure that it's true \nthat there was only one meeting. I mean, the President met with the \nRepublican leadership on at least two occasions before the \nintroduction of his package. He met with the entire Senate \nRepublican Caucus also for lunch, and went up there. We are \ncontinually in contact with as many Republicans as we can find who \nhave an interest in the President's package. We are interested in \nwhat they have to say, as well. But we believe that this program is \nimportant, and we're going to continue to fight for it.\n\t \n\t Q\t your all or nothing, do it with the Democrats \nalone strategy, did you maybe miscalculate the ability to get it \nthrough?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, I mean, I think that there is \nno question that under the Senate rules a determined minority can \nfrustrate activity. I mean, there is just no question about that. \nYou only need 40 plus one to keep going. 40 plus one to keep going \nand to stop any action, and that's what the Republicans are doing.\n\t \n\t Q\t going to rethink the way you attempt to get \nother things passed as you go through this process for the rest of \nthe summer?\n\t \n\t Q\t work with Republicans and try to woo some \nRepublicans into your camp?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think we're going to continue to \nlook for the support of Republicans whenever we can get it on the \nPresident's intiatives?\n\t \n\t Q\t But on this one -- how are you going to do it \ndifferently than you did it on this one because on this one you \nreally did stiff the Republicans from the beginning and made it clear \nthat it was a Democratic majority that would get this through and \ncould get it through and you really didn't need Republican votes? \nAre you going to take a different tack when you have to go for \nparticular votes? When you have to go through --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I can't see into the future and \nunderstand every possible turn in the legislative road. Clearly the \nPresident's going to continue to reach out when he can.\n\t \n\t Q\t You don't have any regrets then about the way you \nhave handled it up to now and you don't plan any changes in your \napproach in dealing with the Republicans in Congress based on this \nexperience?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Obviously the President would like \nhis package passed as quickly as possible and he's going to continue \nto press for that. We will continue to reach out to Republicans, \nthere's not question about that. And we'll continue to reason with \nthem and try and find appropriate avenues for cooperation. In this \ncase the Republicans have chosen to unify around a filibuster, around \na plan to frustrate action not a plan to move forward.\n\t \n\t Q\t They're being denied any other legislative means of \nputting their proposals forward.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think they're being --\n\t \n\t Q\t any ideas.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think their amendments are being \ndefeated; I don't know that they're being denied.\n\t \n\t Q\t to present them.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: That's not exactly true. I mean \nthey get the votes --\n\t \n\t Q\t that theirs can be passed though by the \nparliamentary rules under which they're playing.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Unless they get a majority in \nsupport all the way around, no, that's not exactly true.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, one more on Iraq. Is the administration \nbacking any of the Iraqi opposition? Grooming any new leadership?\n\t \n\t Q\t backing any of the Iraqi -- leadership?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Oh, I -- again, we're pressing for \nIraqi compliance. I don't know if we can get into the business of \ngrooming leadership. I believe there have been some contacts, at \nsome levels, with Iraqi opposition groups. I don't know about \nanything recently.\n\t \n\t Q\t Jesse Jackson, who, of course, is not the \nPresident's best friend, has, however, been told that there is to be \nsome kind of town meeting, or some kind of involvement by the \nPresident, pre-empted the ball game -- Los Angeles. Will he consider \nsomething like that, or any other kind of intervention there?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, as you know, the President \nappointed Commerce Secretary Ron Brown, about 10 days ago, to be a \nspecial envoy to California, and coordiante cabinet activities around \nthe California economic situation, including the situation in Los \nAngeles. \n\t \n\t I believe there will also be visits out to Los Angeles \nby the Education -- or have been visits by the Education Secretary, \nMr. Riley. I believe that Transportation Secretary Pena and HUD \nSecretary Cisneros are also going out. And there may be other visits \nby Cabinet officials over the next several days and weeks. I \nwouldn't rule out the possibility of a visit by President Clinton to \nCalifornia. Obviously, he is following the situation closely, and is \nconcerned about making sure that we make the right long term policy \ndecisions that will help create the kind of economic opportunities \nwhich help prevent disturbances. But we're going to continue to \nwatch it.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, as a follow-up, Reverend Jackson is also \nsupposed to be outside the ball park today, in Baltimore, with a \ngroup of supporters protesting the lack of minorities in baseball \nmanagement. Does the President have a position on that?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The President has received \ncorrespondence from Reverend Jackson. I know that Reverend Jackson \nhas also spoken with the White House Chief of Staff, Mack McLarty. \nHe clearly raises serious questions. There has been some progress in \nbaseball over the last several years, but still not enough. But the \nPresident intends to continue to go to the ball game.\n\t \n\t Q\t Is he going to say anything about it today, or see \nReverend Jackson while he's out there?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know if he is going to see \nthem, but as I said, the President believes that Reverend Jackson has \nraised some serious questions, and it's something that, as I said, \neven though there has been progress, it's clearly not enough.\n\t \n\t Q\t Did Reverend Jackson ask him not to go to the ball \ngame?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm not sure about that. I believe \nthe characterization the Reverend Jackson is talking about is an \ninformational pickett. I don't know that he asked him not to go to \nthe ball game, but he sent a long, detailed, formal letter outlining \nhis concerns with the situation in major league baseball and the \nPresident read it.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, the Orioles are playing the Rangers, the \nmanaging partner of the Rangers is George W. Bush. Is he going to be \nthere, and is he going to meet with the President?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know.\n\t \n\t Q\t What is the Mubarak schedule?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I know that President Mubarak is \ncoming tomorrow morning for a working meeting, they will have a \nlunch, and I believe that he is having dinner tonight with Vice \nPresident Gore.\n\t \n\t Q\t And joint statements tomorrow --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I believe so, yes. At the end, \nyes.\n\t \n\t Q\t Is there evidence, George, that the Egyptians did \nwarn the U.S. about a potential terrorist bombing -- terrorist \nactivities?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: As reported in The New York Times, \nI mean, I think that President Mubarak did say that there has been \ngeneral conversations with the Egyptians, as there have been for a \nlong period of time. We do have general intelligence sharing, I \nmean. But President Mubarak was very careful to point out that there \nwas no specific information on this visit that was passed forward. \nThe President will continue to investigate the situation, but he also \nreiterates his belief that we cannot tolerate terrorism of any kind.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, he did make specific -- or the Egyptians, \napparently, did issue specific warnings about this individual who, \nforgive me --this individual who, forgive me the name escapes me at \nthe moment, and said the Egyptians were more or less rebuffed in \ntheir attempts to get some kind of action.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Again, I don't know if I would \nagree with your characterization of the Mubarak interview. He did \nsay that they gave general warnings about the possibility of a \nnetwork in the United States and upon which we took appropriate \naction. But there was no specific information on this specific \noperation at all.\n\t \n\t Q\t So, the White House doesn't feel that any of the \nlaw enforcement agencies whether it be the CIA or FBI who would have \nreceived this kind of information was lax or derelict in its duty in \nnot pursuing some kind of --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No, not at all.\n\t \n\t Q\t What's next with Serbia? It got only a passing \nmention in the news conference yesterday --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: You didn't get to ask your \nquestion.\n\t \n\t Q\t Yes, exactly. Was there any agreement on concerted \naction between the two countries? And even if there wasn't, what \ndoes the U.S. do next?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think the U.S. is clearly going \nto move forward in the U.N. today continuing discussions with our \nallies on a sanctions resolution and we'll continue to look for ways \nto press the Serbians to come to the negotiating table and sign an \nagreement.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, why do you think sanctions is still an \noption? I mean the Serbians make it clear that at least the \nleadership is surviving just fine and they feel like they can wait \nyou out and even the administration officials we had in the other day \nsaid there's no evidence that they're going to have an effect any \ntime soon. The Bosnian Serbs have said no to the peace plan. When \ndoes no mean no and you have to do something different?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, I mean we are doing something \ndifferent. We're moving forward on further sanctions through the \nU.N. and those discussions will continue. We're going to continue to \ntry and tighten the noose on Serbia, and I think that every \nopportunity we have to do that will have an effect over time.\n\t \n\t Q\t Are we looking again at lifting the arms embargo? \nMR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The President has said that this is something \nthat is under consideration.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, do you have any more on Hugh Rodham's \ncondition, how he's doing?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: As far as I know nothing's changed.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, -- week after Mr. Mubarak?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: It's a little unclear. I think \nwe'll be able to get you more either tonight or tomorrow morning \nafter the Mubarak visit.\n\t \n\t Q\t Is he going somewhere for Easter?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Not that I know of.\n\t \n\t Q\t What more can you tell us about the additional aid \nto Russia that the President plans to ask Congress about?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: He's going to be consulting with \nthe Congress and with our G-7 partners over the next couple of weeks. \nI know that he spoke last evening with Congressman Gephardt and their \ndelegation before the -- the congressional delegation meets with the \nRussians this week and those consultations will continue over the \nnext several weeks.\n\t \n\t Q\t Do you expect that package to be of the magnitude \nof the one announced Sunday?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm not going to discuss the \nmagnitude.\n\t \n\t Q\t How about the list of Cold War restrictions, where \ndo you stand on that --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: As the President said yesterday, \nhe's going to be looking for that list from the Congress this week \nand reviewing it. He believes -- he's going to try and get it this \nweek and he's going to review the list, and we're going to take a \nhard look at it.\n\t \n\t Q\t But they're making it up? I mean it's no White \nHouse involvement, Congress is compiling this list?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think he's going to talk to the \ncongressional leaders about compiling the list but I'm certain we'll \nbe able to get our own researchers working as well.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, isn't lifting the arms embargo more of a \nprobability than a possibility?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: It's something that's under \ndiscussion.\n\t \n\t Q\t Secretary Christopher has said that it's a matter \nof time and -- for months before that happens.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Again, all I can say is that it's \nsomething that the President is reviewing. Right now we're working \nwith our allies in the U.N on a sanctions resolution, and we'll \ncontinue to review other matters.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, can you tell us anything about the schedule \nthis week? Any travel?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: They just asked about that. I \ndon't have anything more beyond tomorrow's visit with Mubarak right \nnow.\n\t \n\t Q\t Are there consultations, George, with any Jewish \nAmerican organizations concerning Jackson-Vanick?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: As you know the National Conference \nof Soviet Jewry has a list of, I believe, \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: -- as you know, the National \nConference of Soviet Jewry has a list of, I believe, 200 Refuseniks. \nWe'll certainly take a look at that and continue appropriate \ndiscussions.\n\t \n\t Thanks.\n", "\nStuff deleted\n\n\nI have to confess that this is one of my few unfulfilled ambitions.\nNo matter how much I eat, it still seems realistic.", "Heres a story of a Saint that people might like to read. I got it from\na The Morning Star, and am posting it with the permission of the\neditor.\n\n\n Saint Aloysius Gonzaga\n\n The Patron of Youth\n\n\n The marquis Gonzaga had high aspirations for his son, the Prince\n Gonzage. He wanted him to become a famous, brave and honoured\n soldier. After all, he must carry on the great family name of\n Gonzaga. Of course, he was to become far more famous, brave and\n honoured than his father could ever have imagined; though not in\n the manner expected.\n\n Saint Aloysius' mother was a woman who received immense joy from\n praying to God and meditating on the divine mysteries and the\n life of Our Lord. She had little time for the pleasures of this\n life. As Saint Aloysius\tgrew, he began to resemble his mother\n more than his father.\n\n Saint Aloysius had learned numerous expressions from his father's\n soldiers, but the moment he discovered that they were vulgar, he\n fainted from shock. This shows his immense hatred of sin (What an\n example for us of the contempt we must have for sin).\n\n About the time of his First Holy Communion (which he received\n from the Archbishop of Milan, Charles Borromeo, whom himself\n became a great Saint), he con-secrated his purity to God and\n asked the Blessed Virgin to protect his innocence for life.\n\n He wanted to share Our Lord's suffering to\tshow his reciprocal\n love. He started by denying his passions; he avoided eating the\n finest foods, wearing the best clothes, and would put pieces of\n wood in his bed in order to mortify himself for the love of God.\n While he was in his early teens his father sent him (and his\n younger brother) to the court of the Spanish King, Phillip 11.\n Obediently, he set out to make the best of it. He mixed in well\n with the people of the royal court, for he was handsome, polite,\n intelligent and always had something interesting to say.\n\n\n Not long before this time, the great soldier-saint, Saint\tIgna-\n tius of Loyola, had founded the Society of Jesus (the Jesuits)\n towards which Saint Aloysius\n\n\n\t\t\t\t -12-\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n began to have a yearning. When he finally told his father, the\n marquis flew into a rage and forbade his son to become a priest.\n\n After a short time, his father sent him to the great cities in\n order that he be tempted away from the priesthood, but even\n\n through these trials, Saint Aloysius grew in his desire for the\n religious life and was strengthened in the virtue of purity.\n\n The Marquis' plans were obviously failing, so he con-fronted his\n son: \"Will you or will you not obey me and forget this foolish-\n ness?\" \"I will not, father,\" was the in-evitable reply.\t\"Then\n leave from my sight and don't return until you change your mind!\"\n With tears clouding his eyes, the Saint left the room to\tpray:\n \"Tell me Lord, what am I to do? Tell me! Tell me!\" He knelt down\n to flagellate himself as he had done several times before, but\n this time\the was seen. The onlooker rushed to the marquis. This\n at last brought the proud man to his senses. \"The Lord wants him,\n the Lord can have him.\" He gave his consent for his son to become\n a Jesuit.\n\n After some years (at the end of the sixteenth century), a terri-\n ble epidemic broke out in Rome. All the hospitals were full and\n could house no more, so the Jesuits opened their own. Saint Aloy-\n sius did all he could in the hospitals, particularly to prepare\n the dying for a holy death.\n\n Saint Aloysius himself contracted the plague from\tcarrying and\n nursing the sick. For three months he lay with a burning fever\n and finally, on June 21st, 1591, he gave his soul\tto the Lord\n while gazing at a crucifix.\n\n Let us invoke Saint Aloysius as our patron and imitate him in his\n humility, purity and confidence in prayer.\n\n Saint Aloysius Gonzaga, pray for us.\n\n - Brendan Arthur\n\n\n\n\n\n\n Prayer is as necessary to a person consecrated to the service of\n others as a sword is to a soldier\n\nGod Bless\n\nFrom Simon\nLines: 106", "\nThe biblical arguments against homosexuality are weak at best, yet\nChrist is quite clear about our obligations to the poor. How as \nChristians can we demand celibacy from homosexuals when we walk\nby homeless people and ignore the pleas for help? \nChrist is quite clear on our obligations to the poor.\n\nThought for the day:\n\nMAT 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but\nconsiderest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to\nthy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam\nis in thine own eye? ", "\n\nAs does the idea that a CS gas canister can get hot enough to ignite dry\nbaled hay.\n", "1. Do a straight encryption of your keyrings and put the\n results with misleading names somewhere they won't be noticed\n (eg. in the \\windows directory; nobody knows what half those\n files are).\n\n 2. Do a straight encryption of a .BAT file that will decrypt\n the keyrings to RAMdisk and will set PGPPATH to point at it.\n\n 3. Set up another .BAT file to decrypt and execute the first\n (again on RAM disk). Have it take the name of the target file\n as an argument so that there is no link between this file and\n the (non-existent) batch file referred to by the rest of the\n system. Comment it so it looks like a test script for fooling\n around with PGP. Set PGPPATH to the PGP directory.\n\n 4. Leave the original keyrings that came with PGP in the\n directory with PGP; a good indication that you are playing\n with, but haven't made serious use of PGP. Add a set of keys\n with your name and a really simple passphrase. Never use it,\n or use it as your widely published key for low-security\n e-mail.\n\n 5. When needed, run the second .BAT file. Make sure all\n intermediate and plainfiles are generated on RAMdisk.\n\n 6. When you hear the concussion grenade, hit the power switch.\n \n Cheers,\n Marc\n\n---\n Marc Thibault | CIS:71441,2226 | Put another log\n marc@tanda.isis.org | NC FreeNet: aa185 | on the fire.\n\n-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----\nVersion: 2.0", "Do you know of any freely distributable c++ (or c) code for public\nkey cryptography (such as RSA)? \n\nI've tried various archie searches to no avail. ", "\nI have heard that the sabbath was originally determined by the phases of\nthe moon, and had elements of moon worship. Early stuff, Egyptian in nature.\n", "\n\n\nWhy should I keep my fingers crossed? I doubt it would do anything. :)", "\n------------ Part 8 of 14 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End of part 8 of 14 --------\n\n", "yeah,\n\nThey just tore down the Kmart near my house (putting in a new suptermarket). I\nheard that there is a beer drinking ghost who still haunts the place! 8-{)\n\nTom\n\nI liked this one I read a while ago...", "ON the subject of how many competing RC orders there are, let me point out the\nGolden Dawn is only the *outer* order of that tradition. The inner order is\nthe Roseae Rubeae et Aurae Crucis. That's Ruby Rose and Gold Cross, in rough\ntranslation. The G.'.D.'. is a Rosicrucian order, as are all derivative\ngroups. Of course, real Rosicrucians never admit to being Rosicrucian.\n\nEnjoy the journey!\n --Br'anArthur\n Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)", "Has anyone ever heard of FET-TRONS (or is it FETRONS, FETTRONS, ...).\nThese were FET replacement modules for vacuum tubes. I'm looking for\napplications where they were used. ", "\nhowever, the word \"pa^ques\" in french _is_ the word for easter. ask\nany francophone, whether from quebec or from paris. besides, haven't\nyou heard of the phrase \"the paschal lamb\" (meaning jesus)?\n\nsorry to nitpick on the more trivial part of this thread....", "After reading this story about St. Maria Goretti (posted two weeks\nago), I am a bit confused. While it is clear that her daily\nlife is one of probity and sanctity, I am afraid I don't quite\nunderstand the final episode of her life. I am reading it \ncorrectly, she (and the Church apparently) felt that being raped\nwas a sin on _her_ part, one so perfidious that she would rather\ndie than commit it. If this is the case I'm afraid that I \ndisagree rather strongly.\n\nCan anyone out there explain this one to me?\n\nYours in Christ,", "dir\n", "Ahhh, remember the days of Yesterday? When we were only \n\tgoing to pay $17 / month?\n\n\tWhen only 1.2% of the population would pay extra taxes?\n\n\tRemember when a few of us predicted that it wasn't true? :)\n\tRemember the Inaugural? Dancing and Singing! Liberation\n\tat last! \n\n\tWell, figure *this* out:\n\n\t5% VAT, estimated to raise $60-100 Billion per year ( on CNN )\n\tWork it out, chum...\n\n\t $60,000,000,000 / 125,000,000 taxpayers = $480 / year\n\n But, you exclaim, \" I'll get FREE HEALTH CARE! \"\n\tBut, I exclaim, \" No, you won't! \"\n\n\tThis is only for that poor 37 million who have none. Not for\n\tYOU, chum. :) That comes LATER.\n\n\tAdd in the estimates of the energy tax costs - $300-500 / year\n\n\tPlus, all that extra \"corporate and rich\" taxes that will \n\ttrickle down, and what do you have?\n\n\t$1,000 / year, just like I said two months ago.\n\n\tAnd, the best part? You don't GET ANYTHING for it.\n\n\tDeficit is STILL projected to rise at same rate it's been\n\trising at, by CLINTON'S OWN ESTIMATES. And this assumes that\n\this plan WILL WORK!\n\n\tI mean, come on, it doesn't take a ROCKET SCIENTIST to see\n\tthat in another 2 or 3 years, we're GETTING ANOTHER WHOPPING\n\tTAX INCREASE, because the deficit will STILL be GROWING \n\tFASTER THAN the ECONOMY.\n\n\tAll Clinton is doing, is moving us to a HIGHER diving board.\n\n Face it. Clinton is Bush X 2. In four more years, our\n\tcountry will be completely bankrupt, and your children's\n\tfuture, so oft mentioned by Pal Bill, will be gone.\n\n\tAnd those of you still deluding yourselves will be faced\n\twith the guilt.\n\n\tWell, , gotta go. I want to be out of\n\there by noon. Got an appointment at the lake. No tax\n\tthere, yet.", " >specific objections that don't sound frighteningly technical.", "\n\n\n\n\nYes, I am pro-gun, and yes, I do disagree with this statement.\nNuclear weapons in and of themselves are dangerous. Radioactive\ndecay of plutonium and uranium, as well as the tritium in the\nweapon, tends to be somewhat dangerous to living things.\n(Can you say \"neutron flux\"?) Plus these things have no self-\ndefense purposes. It's kinda hard to justify their use as\na militia weapon when at best they are meant for battlefield use\n(low-yield weapons) or at worst for industrial target obliteration\n(translation: cities and population centers). Not to mention that\nfor it to be used as a militia weapon and expect the user to live\nrequires some sort of launch vehicle . . .", "I wrote a commercial program called GAME-MAKER (can you guess what\nit does). What we do is have a document protect (answer Question on page x, \nline y), which is a real pain. We also allow the user to register by sending\nin a card, and computing a # based on their name. The system works in that\nwe've gotten lots of registration cards.\n\tI hear that the program has been cracked though. Someone two people \nactually called up my support--one with a question, the other wanting to\nbuy our graphics libraries (right!). Anyway if anyone wants to help me\ncatch a cracker and has the cracked version, mail me. I won't accuse\nyou (unless you're the cracker of course).\n\n--\n Andy Stone \n-\t\t\t\t\t stonea@suned.cs.yale.edu", "\n\nLarry:\n\nThe subject content IS serious; as is the question.\n\nOn one hand you state that \"things have changed dramatically\" but, at the\nsame time nothing you \"can think of has changed\". Your girlfriend seems\nto want to see a counselor, but you don't. \n\nI'd recommend that you examine your hesitation to see a counselor. It's\na very good environment to examine issues. \n\nThe fact of the matter is: your girlfriend has a different perception than\nyou. The TWO of you need to address the issue in order to resolve it.\n\nPlease consider going to a counselor with your girlfriend. What could it\npossibly hurt?", "\nCan we assume from this statement that you are >unequivocally< saying that\nAMORC is not a spin off of OTO? .. and that in fact, OTO may well be a spin\noff of AMORC??\ni would be quite interested in hearing what evidence you have to support this\nclaim. \n\n\nStudy Smarter, not Harder! :-)\n\n\n", "\nI hate to disagree, but I will. :)\n(note: I don't pirate software, nor do I trade it. I simply have met and\ntalked extensively with those who have. that's it. the FBI can tap someone\nelse's phone :)\nMost pirating is done by people who don't use the programs they pirate.\nA cracked program tends to get passed on, resplendant in the various graphics\nand animations that advertise whoever performed the modification(s).\n\nI admit that a large portion of the business world is involved in 'giving'\ncopies of programs to one's fellow workers, maybe taking it home for use\non one's own PC, but such trading tends to be interdepartmental or at most\nspread throughout the business as a whole- how many times have you had\nsomeone walking from business to business letting people copy disks?\n\nIt's mostly a matter of convenience: a person sees a program they want to\nuse and they feel justified in making a copy since \"someone's already paid\nfor it\", etc., etc. (A note: this is starting to change a bit. not much\nthough.)\n\n\nwhat about commercially available copy programs? CopyII?\nhow about programs like teledisk, that can do things diskcopy can't?\nand before anyone disputes this because they feel that those who would copy\nwouldn't know about this:\n after working with people around computers, one comes to realize that\nthe 'average' user doesn't know much. Any computer enthusiast is at least\n200x better at pre-guessing commands and how to use them (can *you* sit down\nand use something without reading the manual?) and it is these people who\nare doing the '20% pirating', not Joe Windows User who can't remember a few\narguments to the dir command.\n\n\nreally? I find it evens out- the online stuff can be read through faster,\nbut you're stuck reading it in linear flow: start to finish, unless you\njump ahead with a search or such. A book, though, you can flip through\nfaster than you can read text on a screen and they usually have a nifty\nindex too!\n\nBut I partially agree: I often wish I could grep something that was written\ndown.\n\n\nwhat if they need to re-install? The idea of a backup still holds- if\nthe original disk goes bad, they're out of luck for about 1-2 weeks, which\nis the usual turn around time for a company to send a new set of disks-\nif they'll do it without a charge.", "\n\nReally>`?\n\n\nNo, gravity is an inherent system. You don't need any excess information\nother than observations to determine anything. It is possible to objectively\ndetermine someone's guilt or innocence within an non-inherent system.\nI agree that morality is not necessarily inherent (unless you state that\neverything we do has an evolutionary basis), but this does not mean that\nit cannot be objective in theory.\n\n\nPerhaps it can be objective, but not inherent. Anyway, as I noted before,\nthe practices related to mating rituals, etc. among the animals are likely\nthe only ones to be considered \"immoral\" under the previous \"definitions\"\nof the natural law. Therefore, some revisions are in order, since the\nclass of activities surrounding mating seem to pose some general problems.\n\n\nIt seens that you are objecting to the notion of an objective system\nbecause perhaps you think that it would imply inherence, which would\nnecessitate some sort of grand design?\n\n\nI think I have. It is a code of ethics which basically defines undesired\nbehaviors, etc. An immoral behavior could be unwanted, unproductive,\nor destructive, etc., depending on the goal of the system (that is,\nimmoral to what end?).", "\nAlso in pure speculation:\n\nParity errors in memory or previously known conditions that were waivered.\n \"Yes that is an error, but we already knew about it\"\n\nAny problem where they decided a backup would handle it.\n\nAny problem in an area that was not criticality 1,2,3..., that is, any\n problem in a system they decided they could do without.\n\nI'd be curious as to what the real meaning of the quote is.", "Alas, we too will have to stop using it.\n\nBrian", "\tI'm also interested in Mac based BBS, but not in Chicago.\nI would greatly appreciate it if someone could post a list of BBSs\nin the LA area. Preferably (818) but also (213). Thanks. Dan\n\n", "the\nunuseable)\nmotorcycle\n\n\nWhat happens is that (I heard this discussed on \"Northern Exposure\") there \nis a molecular juxtaposition of the molecules in the battery and the \nmolecules in the concrete. This acts as an attractant to UFOs (actually \ntheir crew members) and they arrive at the scene of the battery/concrete \ncombination.\n\nThen they proceed to SUCK ALL THE ENERGY OUT OF THE BATTERIES!\n\nRemedy: Set the battery on a nonconcrete floor.", "\nTrue, all you need to define is one statement that defined one\npolarity, and all the other states are considered the other\npolarity. Then again what is the meaning of nil, false or true :-) ?\n\nCheers,\nKent", "\n Why does the Center For Policy Research pose such unbelievably\nstupid and loaded questions to this newsgroup. What are you? - a\nthink tank, or a fish tank? Every time I start to believe I have\nseen the outer boundaries of your stupidity, you come up with one\nstep beyond. When will it end, man? Can you actually have brain\nenough to dress and feed yourself each morning?\n\n", "\nI second the motion.\n\nAll in favor?\n\nBTW>> a few days ago, Charles Fee posted the names,\naddresses, and phone numbers (voice and fax) of almost all the 103rd \ncongress's members. This info, along witha great number of cabinet men, etc...\nI captured it, as did many others, I am sure.\n\nWe should single out a few of the people on the list, and bombard them \nwith lobbying against the Clipper Chip, et al.\n\n-nate\n", "This past week I've been playing with some of the R-D (Reaction-\nDiffusion, not to be confused with RDS or R&D) techniques\nfrom SIGGRAPH '91.\n\nI was wondering what material is available to explain the control\nmechanism a little more. It seems to me very much like a matter of\npicking random magic numbers and sitting back and waiting. Although\nboth of the papers (Turk and Witkin & Kass) were very well organized\nand extremely helpful, I guess what I need is a more basic description\nof the technique, especially wrt the control mechanisms. The tests\nthat I did had a tendency to either turn into blurry mud or become\nunstable.\n\nIs there any info available online? Source code would be great but\nnot necessary.\n\nThanks!\n\n\n-- ", "[stuff about hard to find atheist books deleted]", "\nI don't know if this is still true, but at one time Coca-Cola\ntook elaborate measures to keep the formula secret. For instance,\nseveral plants in different cities each made one of six partial\nconcentrates, which were then shipped back-and forth and remixed\nin a complicated scheme so that no single plant made the whole\nformula. By now, I would guess that PepsiCo's chemists would have\nreverse-engineered it; can't be all that exotic. Actually I\nprefer Pepsi anyhow; in about 3 minutes I'm gonna put money\ninto a Pepsi vending machine...\n\nMatt Healy\n\"I pretend to be a network administrator;\n the lab net pretends to work\"", "\n > Public revelation, which is the basis of Catholic doctrine, ended\n > with the death of St John, the last Apostle. Nothing new can be\n > added.\n\nEvery so often, the Pope declares that some departed Christian is\nnow in Heaven, and may be invoked in the public rites of the Church.\nIt is my understanding that Roman Catholics believe that such\ndeclarations by the Pope are infallible. I see three possibilities:\n 1) The Church has received a Public Revelation since the death\nof (for example) Joan of Arc.\n 2) The Church was given a list before the death of St John\nwhich had Joan's name on it.\n 3) There is no public revelation about Joan, and Roman\nCatholics are free to doubt that she died in a state of grace, or\neven that she is a historical character.", "There's only one way I know of to tell an AR-15 from an M-16.\n Pick it up, hold it about a foot from your face and look closely\n at the saftey lever. If it has two positions, its an AR-15, if\n it has three, its an M-16. There are numerous internal differences\n as well, but since one would have to field strip the weapon to see\n them, they are not valid in this discussion. So, in conclusion,\n there is very little external differences to distinguish an AR-15\n from an M-16 except at close (very close) range.\n\n David Bixler\n Auburn University", "Archive-name: graphics/faq\n\nThis message is automatically posted once a week or so in an effort to\ncut down on the repetitive junk in comp.graphics. It was last changed\non 26Apr93. If you have answers to other frequently asked questions that\nyou would like included in this posting, please send me mail. If you\ndon't want to see this posting every week, please add the subject line\nto your kill file. Thank you.\n\nIf your copy of the FAQ is more than a couple of weeks old, you may want to\nseek out the most recent version. The latest version of this FAQ is always\navailable on the archive site pit-manager.mit.edu (alias rtfm.mit.edu) as\npub/usenet/news.answers/graphics/faq.\n\n---\n_john\n\n\tJohn Grieggs grieggs@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov JohnG@portal.com\n---\nLast update: 26Apr93\n\nSorry I haven't posted this for a couple of weeks, but I was called out of\ntown due to a death in the family. This is reality, folks.\n\nWhat's new?\n\nSIGGRAPH Online Bibliography Project (spencer@cgrg.ohio-state.edu).\n\n\t\tgrieggs@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov\n\n\n\nContents:\n\n 1) General references for graphics questions.\n 2) Drawing three-dimensional objects on a two-dimensional screen.\n 3) Quantizing 24 bit images down to 8 bits.\n 4) Converting color into grayscale.\n 5) Quantizing grayscale to black&white.\n 6) Rotating a raster image by an arbitrary angle.\n 7) Free image manipulation software.\n 8) Format documents for TIFF, IFF, BIFF, NFF, OFF, FITS, etc.\n 9) Converting between vector formats.\n 10) How to get Pixar films.\n 11) How do I draw a circle as a Bezier (or B-spline) curve?\n 12) How to order standards documents.\n 13) How to FTP by email.\n 14) How to tell whether a point is within a planar polygon.\n 15) How to tessellate a sphere.\n 16) Specific references on ray-tracing and global illumination.\n 17) SIGGRAPH information online\n 18) SIGGRAPH Panels Proceedings available\n 19) Graphics mailing lists\n 20) Specific references on file formats\n 21) What about GIF?\n 22) What is morphing?\n 23) How to ray-trace height fields\n 24) How to find the area of a 3D polygon\n 25) How to join ACM/SIGGRAPH\n 26) Where can I find MRI and CT scan volume data?\n 27) Specific references on spatial data structures including quadtrees\n\tand octrees\n 28) Where can I get a program to plot XY(Z) data or f(x) data?\n 29) Specific references on PEX and PHIGS\n 30) SIGGRAPH Online Bibliography Project\n\n\n1) General references for graphics questions:\n\n Computer Graphics: Principles and Practice (2nd Ed.), J.D. Foley,\n\tA. van Dam, S.K. Feiner, J.F. Hughes, Addison-Wesley 1990, ISBN\n\t0-201-12110-7\n Procedural Elements for Computer Graphics, David F. Rogers, McGraw\n\tHill 1985, ISBN 0-07-053534-5\n Mathematical Elements for Computer Graphics 2nd Ed., David F. Rogers\n\tand J. Alan Adams, McGraw Hill 1990, ISBN 0-07-053530-2\n Three Dimensional Computer Graphics, Alan Watt, Addison-Wesley 1990, ISBN\n\t0-201-15442-0\n An Introduction to Ray Tracing, Andrew Glassner (ed.), Academic Press\n\t1989, ISBN 0-12-286160-4\n Graphics Gems, Andrew Glassner (ed.), Academic Press 1990, ISBN\n\t0-12-286165-5\n Graphics Gems II, James Arvo (ed.), Academic Press 1991, ISBN\n\t0-12-64480-0\n Graphics Gems III, David Kirk (ed.), Academic Press 1992, ISBN\n\t0-12-409670-0 (with IBM disk) or 0-12-409671-9 (with Mac disk)\n Digital Image Warping, George Wolberg, IEEE Computer Society Press\n\tMonograph 1990, ISBN 0-8186-8944-7\n Digital Image Processing (2nd Ed.), Rafael C. Gonzalez, Paul Wintz,\n\tAddison-Wesley 1987, ISBN 0-201-11026-1\n A Programmer's Geometry, Adrian Bowyer, John Woodwark, Butterworths 1983,\n\tISBN 0-408-01242-0 Pbk\n\nAn automatic mail handler at Brown University allows users of \"Computer\nGraphics: Principles and Practice,\" by Foley, van Dam, Feiner, and\nHughes, to obtain text errata and information on distribution of the\nsoftware packages described in the book. Also, users can send the\nauthors feedback, to report text errors and software bugs, make\nsuggestions, and submit exercises. To receive information describing\nhow you can use the mail handler, simply mail graphtext@cs.brown.edu\nand put the word \"Help\" in the Subject line. Use the Subject line\n\"Software-Distribution\" to receive information specifically concerning\nthe software packages SRGP and SPHIGS.\n\nErrata for \"An Introduction to Ray Tracing\" is available on\nwuarchive.wustl.edu in graphics/graphics/books/IntroToRT.errata.\n\nErrata for \"Digital Image Warping\" is in the same directory as\n\"Digital-Image-Warping.errata\".\n\nAll C code from the \"Graphics Gems\" series is available via anonymous ftp\nfrom princeton.edu. Look in the directory pub/Graphics/GraphicsGems for\nthe various volumes (Gems, GemsII, GemsIII), and get the README file first.\n\nErrata to _Graphics Gems_ and _Graphics Gems II is available on\nwuarchive.wustl.edu in graphics/graphics/books.\n\nA list of computer graphics, computational geometry and image processing\njournals is available from Juhana Kouhia, jk87377@cs.tut.fi.\n\n\n2) Drawing three-dimensional objects on a two-dimensional screen.\n\nThe simple answer is, you divide by the depth. For a more verbose\nexplanation, see any of the above references, starting with:\n\nThe Foley & Van Dam & Feiner & Hughes \"Computer Graphics\" book is certainly\na good start. Chapter 6 is \"Viewing in 3D\", then read chapter 15,\n\"Visible-Surface Determination\". For more information go to chapter 16 for\nshading, chapter 19 for clipping, and branch out from there.\n\n\n3) Quantizing 24 bit images down to 8 bits.\n\nFind a copy of \"Color Image Quantization for Frame Buffer Display\" by\nPaul Heckbert, SIGGRAPH '82 Proceedings, page 297. There are other\nalgorithms, but this one works well and is fairly simple. Implementations\nare included in most raster toolkits (see item 7 below).\n\nA variant method is described in \"Graphics Gems\", p. 287-293. Note that\nthe code from the \"Graphics Gems\" series is all available from an FTP site,\nas described above.\n\nCheck out John Bradley's \"Diversity Algorithm\", which is incorporated into\nthe xv package and described in the back of the manual.\n\nThe ImageMagick package (see section 7 for where it is) contains another\nquantizing algorithm which is presented as \"doing a better job than the\nother algorithms, but slower\".\n\nThere's also an implementation of:\n\nWan, Wong, and Prusinkiewicz, _An Algorithm for Multidimensional Data\nClustering_, Transactions on Mathematical Software, Vol. 14 #2 (June, 1988),\npp. 153-162.\n\navialable as princeton.edu:pub/Graphics/colorquant.shar. This code,\nin modified form, appears in the Utah Raster Toolkit as well.\n\n\n4) Converting color into grayscale.\n\nThe NTSC formula is:\n\n luminosity = .299 red + .587 green + .114 blue\n\n\n5) Quantizing grayscale to black&white.\n\nThe only reference you need for this stuff is:\n\n Digital Halftoning, Robert Ulichney, MIT Press 1987, ISBN 0-262-21009-6\n\nBut before you go off and start coding, check out the image manipulation\nsoftware mentioned in item 7 below. All of the packages mentioned can do\nsome form of gray to b&w conversion.\n\n\n6) Rotating a raster image by an arbitrary angle.\n\nThe obvious but wrong method is to loop over the pixels in the source\nimage, transform each coordinate, and copy the pixel to the destination.\nThis is wrong because it leaves holes in the destination. Instead,\nloop over the pixels in the destination image, apply the *reverse*\ntransformation to the coordinates, and copy that pixel from the source.\nThis method is quite general, and can be used for any one-to-one\n2-D mapping, not just rotation. You can add anti-aliasing by doing\nsub-pixel sampling.\n\nHowever, there is a much faster method, with antialising included,\nwhich involves doing three shear operations. The method was originally\ncreated for the IM Raster Toolkit (see below); an implementation is\nalso present in PBMPLUS. Reference: \"A Fast Algorithm for Raster\nRotation\", by Alan Paeth (awpaeth@watcgl.waterloo.edu) Graphics\nInterface '86 (Vancouver). An article on the IM toolkit appears in\nthe same journal. An updated version of the rotation paper appears\nin \"Graphics Gems\" (see section [1]) under the original title.\n\n\n7) Free image manipulation software.\n\nThere are a number of toolkits for converting from one image format to\nanother, doing simple image manipulations such as size scaling, plus\nthe above-mentioned 24 -> 8, color -> gray, gray -> b&w conversions.\nHere are pointers to some of them:\n\n xv by John Bradley. X-based image display, manipulation, and format\n conversion package. XV displays many image formats and permits editing\n of GIF files, among others. The program was updated 5/92; see the file\n contrib/xv-2.21.tar.Z on export.lcs.mit.edu.\n\n PBMPLUS, by Jef Poskanzer. Comprehensive format conversion and image\n manipulation package. The latest version is always available via\n anonymous FTP as ftp.ee.lbl.gov:pbmplus*.tar.Z,\n wuarchive.wustl.edu:graphics/graphics/packages/pbmplus/pbmplus*.tar.Z,\n and export.lcs.mit.edu:contrib/pbmplus*.tar.Z.\n\n IM Raster Toolkit, by Alan Paeth (awpaeth@watcgl.uwaterloo.ca).\n Provides a portable and efficient format and related toolkit. The\n format is versatile in supporting pixels of arbitrary channels,\n components, and bit precisions while allowing compression and machine\n byte-order independence. The kit contains more than 50 tools with\n extensive support of image manipulation, digital halftoning and format\n conversion. Previously distributed on tape c/o the University of\n Waterloo, an FTP version will appear someday.\n\n Utah RLE Toolkit. Conversion and manipulation package, similar to\n PBMPLUS. Available via FTP as cs.utah.edu:pub/urt-*,\n princeton.edu:pub/Graphics/urt-*, and freebie.engin.umich.edu:pub/urt-*.\n\n Fuzzy Pixmap Manipulation, by Michael Mauldin .\n Conversion and manipulation package, similar to PBMPLUS. Version 1.0\n available via FTP as nl.cs.cmu.edu:/usr/mlm/ftp/fbm.tar.Z,\n ftp.uu.net:pub/fbm.tar.Z, and ucsd.edu:graphics/fbm.tar.Z.\n\n Img Software Set, by Paul Raveling . Reads and\n writes its own image format, displays on an X11 screen, and does some\n image manipulations. Version 1.3 is available via FTP as\n export.lcs.mit.edu:contrib/img_1.3.tar.Z, and\n venera.isi.edu:pub/img_1.3.tar.Z along with a large collection of color\n images.\n\n Xim, X Image Manipulator, by Philip R. Thompson. It does essential\n interactive image manipulations and uses x11r4 and the OSF/Motif toolkit\n for the interface. It supports images in 1, 8, 24 and 32 bit formats.\n Reads/writes and converts to/from GIF, xwd, xbm, tiff, rle, xim, and\n other formats. Writes level 2 postscript. Other utilities and image\n application library are included. Not a paint package. Available via\n ftp from gis.mit.edu.\n\n xloadimage, by Jim Frost . Reads in images in various\n formats and displays them on an X11 screen. Available via FTP as\n export.lcs.mit.edu:contrib/xloadimage*, and in your nearest comp.sources.x\n archive.\n\n xli, by Grame Gill, is an updated xloadimage with numerous improvements\n in both speed and in the number of formats supported. Available in the\n same places as xloadimage (contrib tape, comp.sources.x archives).\n\n TIFF Software, by Sam Leffler . Nice\n portable library for reading and writing TIFF files, plus a few tools\n for manipulating them and reading other formats. Available via FTP as\n ucbvax.berkeley.edu:pub/tiff/*.tar.Z or ftp.uu.net:graphics/tiff.tar.Z\n\n xtiff, an X11 tool for viewing a TIFF file. It was written to handle\n as many different kinds of TIFF files as possible while remaining\n simple, portable and efficient. xtiff illustrates some common problems\n with building pixmaps and using different visual classes. It is\n distributed as part of Sam Leffler's libtiff package and it is also\n available on export.lcs.mit.edu, ftp.uu.net and comp.sources.x.\n xtiff 2.0 was announced in 4/91; it includes Xlib and Xt versions.\n\n ALV, a Sun-specific image toolkit. Version 2.0.6 posted to\n comp.sources.sun on 11dec89. Also available via email to\n alv-users-request@cs.bris.ac.uk.\n\n popi, an image manipulation language. Version 2.1 posted to\n comp.sources.misc on 12dec89.\n\n ImageMagick, an X11 package for display and interactive manipulation\n of images. Includes tools for image conversion, annotation, compositing,\n animation, and creating montages. ImageMagick can read and write many of\n the more popular image formats. Available via FTP as\n export.lcs.mit.edu:contrib/ImageMagick.tar.Z.\n\n Khoros, a huge (~100 meg) graphical development environment based on\n X11R4. Khoros components include a visual programming language, code\n generators for extending the visual language and adding new application\n packages to the system, an interactive user interface editor, an\n interactive image display package, an extensive library of image and\n signal processing routines, and 2D/3D plotting packages. Available via\n FTP as pprg.eece.unm.edu:pub/khoros/*.\n\n LaboImage, a SunView-based image processing and analysis package. It\n includes more than 200 image manipulation, processing and measurement\n routines, on-line help, plus tools such as an image editor, a color\n table editor and several biomedical utilities. Available via anonymous\n FTP as ads.com:pub/VISION-LIST-ARCHIVE/SHAREWARE/LaboImage_3.1.tar.Z\n\n The San Diego Supercomputer Center Image Tools, software tools for\n reading, writing, and manipulating raster images. Binaries for some\n machines available via anonymous FTP in sdsc.edu:sdscpub.\n\n The Independent JPEG Group has written a package for reading and\n writing JPEG files. FTP to ftp.uu.net:graphics/jpeg/jpegsrc.v?.tar.Z\n\nDon't forget to set binary mode when you FTP tar files. For you MILNET\nfolks who still don't have name servers, the IP addresses are:\n\n ads.com\t\t\t128.229.30.16\n cs.utah.edu\t\t\t128.110.4.21\n coral.cs.jcu.edu.au\t\t137.219.17.4\n export.lcs.mit.edu\t\t18.24.0.12\n freebie.engin.umich.edu\t141.212.103.21\n ftp.ee.lbl.gov\t\t128.3.112.20\n ftp.uu.net\t\t\t137.39.1.9 or 192.48.96.9\n gis.mit.edu\t\t\t18.80.1.118\n gondwana.ecr.mu.oz.au\t128.250.70.62\n karazm.math.uh.edu\t\t129.7.7.6\n marsh.cs.curtin.edu.au\t134.7.1.1\n nic.funet.fir\t\t128.214.6.100\n ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu\t\t141.142.20.50\n nl.cs.cmu.edu\t\t128.2.222.56\n pit-manager.mit.edu\t\t18.172.1.27\n pprg.eece.unm.edu\t\t129.24.24.10\n princeton.edu\t\t128.112.128.1\n sdsc.edu\t\t\t132.249.20.22\n ucbvax.berkeley.edu\t\t128.32.133.1\n venera.isi.edu\t\t128.9.0.32\n weedeater.math.yale.edu\t128.36.23.17\n wuarchive.wustl.edu\t\t128.252.135.4\n zamenhof.cs.rice.edu\t128.42.1.75\n\nPlease do *not* post or mail messages saying \"I can't FTP, could someone\nmail this to me?\" There are a number of automated mail servers that will\nsend you things like this in response to a message. See item 13 below for\ndetails on some.\n\nAlso, the newsgroup alt.graphics.pixutils is specifically for discussion\nof software like this. You may find useful information there.\n\n\n8) Format documents for TIFF, IFF, BIFF, NFF, OFF, FITS, etc.\n\nYou almost certainly don't need these. Read the above item 7 on free\nimage manipulation software. Get one or more of these packages and\nlook through them. Chances are excellent that the image converter you\nwere going to write is already there. But if you still want one of the\nformat documents, many such files are available by anonymous ftp from\nzamenhof.cs.rice.edu in directory pub/graphics.formats.\n\nThese files were collected off the net and are believed to be correct.\nThis archive includes pixel formats, and two- and three-dimensional object\nformats. The future of this archive is uncertain at the moment, as Mark\nHall will apparently no longer be maintaining it.\n\nA second graphics file format archive is now being actively maintained\nby Quincey Koziol (koziol@ncsa.uiuc.edu). The latest version exists at\nftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu in /misc/file.formats/graphics.formats. Apparently,\nneither of these is complete, you might want to check both.\n\nFITS stands for Flexible Image Transport System. It's a file format most\noften used in astronomy. Despite the name, it can contain not only images\nbut other things as well. There is a regular monthly FITS basics and\ninformation posting on sci.astro.fits - read it if you want to know more.\n\n\n\n9) Converting between vector formats.\n\nA lot of people ask about converting from HPGL to PostScript, or MacDraw\nto CGM, or whatever. It is important to understand that this is a very\ndifferent problem from the image format conversions in item 7. Converting\none image format to another is a fairly easy problem, since once you\nget past all the file header junk, a pixel is a pixel -- the basic objects\nare the same for all image formats. This is not so for vector formats.\nThe basic objects -- circles, ellipses, drop-shadowed pattern-filled\nround-cornered rectangles, etc. -- vary from one format to another.\nExcept in extremely restricted cases, it is simply not possible to do\na one-to-one conversion between vector formats.\n\nThere is software for converting to and from CGM files on ftp.psc.edu. The\ncontributor states that it runs on Unix, MS-Windows, and possibly the Mac.\nA better, more specific blurb would be most welcome.\n\nOn the other hand, it is quite possible to do a close approximation,\nrendering an image from one format using the primitives from another.\nAs far as I know, no one has put together a general toolkit of such\nconverters, but two different HPGL to PostScript converters have been\nposted to comp.sources.misc. Check the index on your nearest archive\nsite.\n\nA related frequent question is how to convert from some vector format\nto a bitmapped image - from PostScript to Sun raster format, or HPGL to\nX11 bitmap. For example, some of the commercial PostScript clones for\nPC's allow you to render to a disk file as well as a printer. Also,\nthe PostScript interpreters in the NeXT box and in Sun's X11/NeWs can\nbe used to render to a file if you're clever. But in general, the\nanswer is no. However, if someone were to put together a vector to\nvector conversion toolkit, adding a vector to raster converter would be\ntrivial.\n\nGNU ghostscript (from the FSF - current version 2.5.2) includes\ndrivers for both ppm and gif format files, thus it can be used as\na PostScript to ppm or a PostScript to GIF filter. (It implements\nessentially all of PostScript level 1 and alot of Display PostScript\nand level 2).\n\n\n10) How to get Pixar films.\n\nThe various John Lasseter / Pixar computer animated shorts are available\non video tape. You can order them from Direct Cinema Limited:\n\n Film Individual Price Institutional Price\n Luxo, Jr.\t\t\t\t$14.95\t\t\t$50.00\n Red's Dream\t\t\t\t$19.95\t\t\t$75.00\n Tin Toy\t\t\t\t$24.95\t\t\t$75.00\n Knickknack\t\t\t\t$24.95\t\t\t$75.00\n Luxo, Jr./Red's Dream/Tin Toy\t$39.95\t\t\t$100.00\n\nAll tapes are on 1/2\" VHS NTSC. Add $10/tape for PAL format. Also\navailable:\n\n Tin Toy T-shirt\t\t\t$15.00\n Knickknack 3D T-shirt\t\t$15.00 (includes glasses)\n\nFor individual orders, add $5 S&H for the first tape or shirt, $2 for\neach additional tape or shirt. For institutional orders, add $5 S&H\nfor the first tape, $3 for each additional tape. Foreign shipping, add\n$3/tape or shirt. Call 800-525-0000 (213-396-4774 international,\n213-396-3233 FAX) to charge to your credit card. Call first to verify\nprices and availability. Or, just write to:\n\n Direct Cinema Limited\n 1749 14th Street\n Santa Monica, CA 90404-4342\n\nAllan Braunsdorf has this to say:\n\nAt SIGGRAPH they were selling a tape with all four shorts\nfor $25. That was a sale price. You can get it for slightly\nmore than that normally. ($35 maybe.) I believe it's\navailable from RenderMan Retail (at Pixar's address).\n\n Pixar\n 1001 West Cutting Blvd.\n Richmond, CA. 94804\n (510) 236-4000 \n (510) 236-0388 (FAX)\n\nYou can obtain a video directly from Pixar which contains \"Luxo, Jr.\", \"Red's\nDream\", \"Tin Toy\" and \"Knicknack\" for $25.00, plus $2.50 for shipping. They\nwill take your order over the phone or via FAX with a major credit card. I \nordered mine just last week and received it several days later. Don't expect \nto be able to rent a copy from your local video store. According to the license\nagreement printed on the back cover of the case, it cannot be rented.\n\n\n11) How do I draw a circle as a Bezier (or B-spline) curve?\n\nThe short answer is, \"You can't.\" Unless you use a rational spline you\ncan only approximate a circle. The approximation may look acceptable,\nbut it is sensitive to scale. Magnify the scale and the error of\napproximation magnifies. Deviations from circularity that were not\nvisible in the small can become glaring in the large. If you want to\ndo the job right, consult the article:\n\n \"A Menagerie of Rational B-Spline Circles\"\n by Leslie Piegl and Wayne Tiller\n in IEEE Computer Graphics and Applications, volume 9, number 9,\n September, 1989, pages 48-56.\n\nFor rough, non-rational approximations, consult the book:\n\n Computational Geometry for Design and Manufacture\n by I. D. Faux and M. J. Pratt,\n Ellis Horwood Publishers, Halsted Press, John Wiley 1980.\n\nFor the best known non-rational approximations, consult the article:\n\n \"Good Approximation of Circles by Curvature-continuous Bezier Curves\"\n by Tor Dokken, Morten Daehlen, Tom Lyche, and Knut Morken\n in Computer Aided Geometric Design, volume 7, numbers 1-4 (combined),\n June, 1990, pages 33-41 [Elsevier Science Publishers (North-Holland)]\n\n\n12) How to order standards documents.\n\nThe American National Standards Institute sells ANSI standards, and also\nISO (international) standards. Their sales office is at 1-212-642-4900,\nmailing address is 1430 Broadway, NY NY 10018. It helps if you have the\ncomplete name and number.\n\nSome useful numbers to know:\n\nCGM (Computer Graphics Metafile) is ISO 8632-4 (1987). GKS (Graphical\nKernel System) is ANSI X3.124-1985. PHIGS (Programmer's Hierarchical\nInteractive Graphics System) is ANSI X3.144-1988. IGES is ASME/ANSI\nY14.26M-1987. Language bindings are often separate but related numbers;\nfor example, the GKS FORTRAN binding is X3.124.1-1985.\n\nStandards-in-progress are made available at key milestones to solicit\ncomments from the graphical public (this includes you!). ANSI can let\nyou know where to order them; most are available from Global Engineering\nat 1-800-854-7179.\n\n\n13) How to FTP by email.\n\nThere are a number of sites that archive the Usenet sources newsgroups\nand make them available via an email query system. You send a message\nto an automated server saying something like \"send comp.sources.unix/fbm\",\nand a few hours or days later you get the file in the mail.\n\nIn addition, there is at least one FTP-by-mail server. Send mail to\nftpmail@decwrl.dec.com saying \"help\" and it will tell you how to use\nit. Note that this service has at times been turned off due to abuse.\n\n\n14) How to tell whether a point is within a planar polygon.\n\nConsider a ray originating at the point of interest and continuing to\ninfinity. If it crosses an odd number of polygon edges along the way,\nthe point is within the polygon. If the ray crosses an even number of\nedges, the point is either outside the polygon, or within an interior\nhole formed from intersecting polygon edges. This idea is known in\nthe trade as the Jordan curve theorem; see Eric Haines' article in\nGlassner's ray tracing book (above) for more information, including\ntreatment of special cases.\n\nAnother method is to sum the absolute angles from the point to all\nthe vertices on the polygon. If the sum is 2 pi, the point is inside,\nif the sum is 0 the point is outside. However, this method is about an\norder of magnitude slower than the previous method because evaluating the\ntrigonometric functions is usually quite costly.\n\nCode for both methods (plus barycentric triangle testing) can be found in\nthe Ray Tracing News, Vol. 5, No. 3, available from princeton.edu:\npub/Graphics/RTNews/RTNv5n3.Z.\n\n\n15) How to tessellate a sphere.\n\nOne simple way is to do recursive subdivision into triangles. The\nbase of the recursion is an octahedron, and then each level divides\neach triangle into four smaller ones. Jon Leech \nhas posted a nice routine called sphere.c that generates the coordinates.\nIt's available for FTP on ftp.ee.lbl.gov and princeton.edu.\n\n16) Specific references on ray-tracing and global illumination.\n\nRick Speer maintains a cross-indexed ray-tracing bibliography:\n\nHighlights of this edition-\n\n i) more than 500 citations spanning the period from 1968 through\n November '91;\n ii) papers from all Siggraph, Graphics Interface, Eurographics, CG\n International and Ausgraph proceedings through December, '91;\n iii) all citations keyworded for easy lookup;\n iv) cross-indices by keyword and author;\n v) glossary of the 119 keywords used.\n\nThe bib is in the form of a PostScript file. The printout is 41 pages long.\nBelow is a list of ftp sites and the dirs that contain the file. It's named\n\"speer.raytrace.bib.ps.Z\" and is compressed at most sites-\n\n Site Dir\n\twuarchive.wustl.edu\tgraphics/graphics/bib/RT.BIB.Speer/\n\tkarazm.math.uh.edu\tpub/Graphics/\n\tgondwana.ecr.mu.oz.au\tpub/papers/\n\tnic.funet.fi\t\tpub/sci/papers/graphics\n\tcoral.cs.jcu.edu.au graphics/papers/\n\nEric Haines (erich@eye.com) maintains ray tracing and radiosity/global\nillumination bibliographies. These are in \"refer\" format, and so can be\nsearched electronically (a simple awk script to search for keywords is\nincluded with each). The bibliographies are available at most of the\nsites listed above, and the most current versions are maintained at\nprinceton.edu: pub/Graphics/Papers as \"RayBib.*\" and \"RadBib.*\".\n\nTom Wilson (wilson@cs.ucf.edu) has collected over 300 abstracts from ray\ntracing related research papers and books. The information is essentially\nin plaintext, and Latex and troff formatting programs are included. This\ncollection is available at most of the sites above as \"rtabs.*\".\n\n17) SIGGRAPH information online\n\n[from Steve Cunningham and Ralph Orlick]\n\nACM-SIGGRAPH announces its online information site at siggraph.org\n(128.248.245.250). This site now provides SIGGRAPH information via both\nanonymous ftp and an electronic mail archive server.\n\nThe anonymous ftp service is very standard, and the ftp directory includes\nboth conference and publications subdirectories.\n\nTo retrieve information by electronic mail, send mail to\n archive-server@siggraph.org\nand in the subject or the body of the message include the message send\nfollowed by the topic and subtopic you wish. A good place to start is with\nthe command\n send index\nwhich will give you an up-to-date list of available information.\n\n\n18) SIGGRAPH Panels Proceedings available\n\n[from Steve Cunningham and Bob Judd]\n\nACM SIGGRAPH announces the availability of the SIGGRAPH '91 Panels Proceedings\nat the siggraph.org site (128.248.245.250). The proceedings are available\nin three formats:\n text (ASCII)\n rtf (rich text format, suitable for many word processors)\n word (MS Word for the Macintosh)\nThey may be retrieved from siggraph.org in two ways:\n\n(1) by anonymous ftp\n change to one of the directories\n publications/s91/panels_proceedings/[text|rtf|word]\n The text and rtf files may be downloaded in ASCII mode, while the word\n files are stored in MacBinary format and must be downloaded in binary \n mode.\n\n Each directory contains a Table of Contents file (TOC) that describes the\n contents of each panel file.\n\n(2) by electronic mail\n send mail to\n archive-server@siggraph.org\n You can retrieve either the text or rtf files. We suggest that you\n first retrieve the index files by putting one of the messages\n send panel91-txt index\n send panel91-rtf index\n in the subject or body of the message. You will get the necessary\n information to retrieve the actual transcript files.\n\n\n19) Graphics mailing lists\n\nThere are a variety of graphics-related mailing list out there, each\ncovering either a single product or a single topic. I have been an\nactive participant in one of these for some time now, and find the\nfocus and expertise which can be brought to bear on an isolated topic\nto be nothing short of amazing.\n\nPlease send me the appropriate information if you have any others you\nwould like to see added.\n\nName:\t\tImagine mailing list\nDescription:\tDiscussion forum for users of the Imagine 3D Rendering and\n\t\tAnimation package by Impulse, Inc.\nPlatforms:\tAmiga, IBM\nSubscription:\timagine-request@email.sp.paramax.com\nPosting:\timagine@email.sp.paramax.com\n\nName:\t\tDCTV mailing list\nDescription:\tDiscussion forum for users of the Digital Creations DCTV\n\t\tbox, software, and file formats\nPlatforms:\tAmiga\nSubscription:\tDCTV-request@nova.cc.purdue.edu\nPosting:\tDCTV@nova.cc.purdue.edu\n\nName:\t\tRayshade Users mailing list\nDescription:\tDiscussion forum for users of the Rayshade raytracer\nPlatforms:\tMost UNIX boxes, Amiga, Mac, IBM\nSubscription:\trayshade-request@cs.princeton.edu\nPosting:\trayshade-users@cs.princeton.edu\n\nName:\t\tLightwave 3D software for Toaster mailing list\nDescription:\tDiscussion forum for users of Lightwave, the Video\n\t\tToaster modelling and rendering package\nPlatforms:\tAmiga\nSubscription:\tlightwave-request@bobsbox.rent.com\n\t\twith \"subscribe lightwave-l\" in your message\nPosting:\tlightwave@bobsbox.rent.com\n\nName:\t\tPOV mailing list\nDescription:\tDiscussion forum for DKBTrace and POV renderers\nPlatforms:\tUnix\nSubscription:\tlistserv@trearn.bitnet\nPosting:\tdkb-l@trearn.bitnet\n\nName:\t\tMailing List For Massive Parallel Rendering\nDescription:\tsame?\nPlatforms:\tUnix\nSubscription:\tmp-render-request@icase.edu\nPosting:\tmp-render@icase.edu\n\n20) Specific references on file formats\n\n Graphics File Formats, David Kay and John Levine, Windcrest/McGraw-Hill\n 1992, ISBN 0-8306-3059-7 paper, ISBN 0-8306-3060-0 $36.95 hardcover,\n ISBN 0-8306-3059-7 $24.95 paper. Comments - 26 formats, no software\n (this is good, IMHO - I prefer books which are non-platform-dependent).\n Questions about this book may be sent to gbook@iecc.cambridge.ma.us.\n\n\n21) What about GIF?\n\nGIF stands for Graphics Interchange Format. It is portable and usable upon\na wide variety of platforms. It is quite limited in some ways (yes, the\nkeeper of the FAQ has some opinions after all), and in fact, I don't like\nit much. However, it looks to me like the most-Frequently Asked Question\nwhich was not previously covered in this list. The following is a list\nof newsgroups and the like where one could go to find out about GIF.\n\nSubject: alt.binaries.pictures FAQ - General info\nSubject: alt.binaries.pictures FAQ - OS specific info\nNewsgroups: alt.binaries.pictures.d,alt.binaries.pictures.misc,\n\talt.binaries.pictures.utilities,alt.binaries.pictures.fractals,\n\talt.binaries.pictures.fine-art.d,news.answers\n\nAvailable in the indicated USENET newsgroup(s), or via anonymous ftp from\npit-manager.mit.edu in the files:\n\n/pub/usenet/news.answers/pictures-faq/part1\n/pub/usenet/news.answers/pictures-faq/part2\n\nAlso available from mail-server@pit-manager.mit.edu by sending a mail\nmessage containing any or all of:\n\nsend usenet/news.answers/pictures-faq/part1\nsend usenet/news.answers/pictures-faq/part2\n\nSend a message containing \"help\" to get general information about the\nmail server.\n\nAlso, you could check out the resources described in sections 7, 8, and\n20 above for more information.\n\n\n22) What is morphing?\n\nWarping is the deformation of an image by mapping each pixel to a new\nlocation. Morphing is blending from one image or object to another one.\nValerie Hall has written an excellent introduction to warping and\nmorphing. This is available for anonymous ftp from marsh.cs.curtin.edu.au\nin the directory pub/graphics/bibliography/Morph. There are three files:\n\n morph_intro.ps.Z (PostScript version, many pictures - 1.5M)\n morph_intro.txt.Z (text version)\n m_responses.Z (Responses to morphing questions)\n\nThe files are compressed, so you must use binary transfer and\nuncompress them afterwards.\n\n\n23) How to ray-trace height fields\n\nHeight fields are a special case in ray-tracing. They have a number of uses,\nsuch as terrain rendering, and some optimization is possible. Thus, they\nget their own FAQ section. Note that further references can no doubt be\nlocated via the ray-tracing bibs in section 16 above.\n\nThe following paper seems to be the definitive reference:\n\nF. Kenton Musgrave\nGrid Tracing: Fast Ray Tracing For Height Fields\nJuly, 1988\n\n\nThis is available as \"Research Report YALEU/DCS/RR-639\" from Yale University,\nit's also in the SIGGRAPH '91 Fractal Modeling in 3D Computer Graphics and\nImaging course notes, and (best of all) it's available on the net:\n\n nic.funet.fi\t\tpub/sci/papers/musg88.ps.Z\n weedeater.math.yale.edu\tpub/Papers/musg88.ms.Z\n princeton.edu\t\tpub/Graphics/Papers/musg88.ms.Z\n coral.cs.jcu.edu.au\t\tgraphics/papers/musg88.ps.Z\n gondwana.ecr.mu.OZ.AU\tpub/papers/musg88.ms.Z and musg88.ps.Z\n\nAn implementation of this paper may be found in Rayshade.\n\nAnother paper exists:\n\n%A David W. Paglieroni\n%A Sidney M. Petersen\n%T Parametric Height Field Ray Tracing\n%J Proceedings of Graphics Interface '92\n%I Canadian Information Processing Society\n%C Toronto, Ontario\n%D May 1992\n%P 192-200\n\nAnd still one more:\n\nMusgrave, Kolb, and Mace\n\"The Synthesis and Rendering of Eroded Fractal Terrains\",\nComputer Graphics Vol 23, No. 3 (SIGGRAPH '89 procedings) p. 41-50\n\n\n\n24) How to find the area of a 3D polygon\n\n\tThe area of a triangle is given by (in C notation),\n\n area = 0.5 * ( ( x[0] * y[1] ) + ( x[1] * y[2] ) + ( x[2] * y[0] ) -\n\t ( x[1] * y[0] ) - ( x[2] * y[1] ) - ( x[0] * y[2] ) );\n\nand the area of a planar polygon is given by\n\n area = 0.0;\n\n for ( i = 0; i < n - 1; i++ )\n area += ( x[i] * y[i + 1] ) - ( x[i + 1] * y[i] );\n area += ( x[n - 1] * y[0] ) - ( x[0] * y[n - 1] );\n area /= 2.0;\n\nIf the area is a negative number, the polygon or triangle is\nclockwise, if positive, it is counterclockwise.\n\n of Planar Polygons and Volume of Polyhedra:\"\n\nThe area of a polygon P0, P1, P2, ... Pn, not in the x-y plane, is\ngiven by\n\n Area(Polygon) = 1/2 * | N . Sigma { Pk x Pk+1 } |\n\nwhere N is the unit vector normal to the plane and P is a polygonal\nvertex. The . represents the dot product operator and the x\nrepresents the cross product operator. Sigma represents the summation\noperator. | | represents the absolute value operator. Pn+1 is equal\nto P0.\n\n\n25) How to join ACM/SIGGRAPH\n\nProbably the easiest way to join ACM/SIGGRAPH is to trot over to your\nlocal technical library and find a copy of Communications of the ACM.\nSomewhere within the first few pages will be an application blank.\nFill it out and mail it in. ACM membership for students costs $23.00,\nVoting or Associate Membership $77.00 (yearly)\n\nSIGGRAPH student membership costs an additional $16.00, $26.00 for\nVoting or Associate Members (also yearly). To get TOG (Transactions\non Graphics) it's another $26.00 for students and $31.00 for Voting or\nAssociate Members.\n\nIf you just want to join SIGGRAPH without joining ACM, it'll cost you\n$59.00 (no student discount).\n\nThere are surcharges for overseas airmailing of publications.\n\nACM Member services may be contacted via email at acmhelp@acmvm.bitnet. \nTheir phone number is (212) 626-0500. FAX number (212) 944-1318.\nSnailmail address:\n\n ACM\n PO Box 12114\n Church Street Station\n New York, New York 10257\n\nSIGGRAPH `93 will be held in Anaheim, California, at the Anaheim\nConvention Center (just up the street from Disneyland) on August 1-6, 1993.\n\n26) Where can I find MRI and CT scan volume data?\n\nVolume data sets are available from the University of North Carolina at\nomicron.cs.unc.edu (152.2.128.159) in /pub/softlab/CHVRTD. (Commerical\nuse is prohibited.)\n\nHead data - A 109-slice MRI data set of a human head.\n\nKnee data - A 127-slice MRI data set of a human knee.\n\nHIPIP data - The result of a quantum mechanical calculation of a SOD data\nof a one-electron orbital of HIPIP, an iron protein.\n\nSOD data - An electron density map of the active site of SOD (superoxide\ndismutase). \n\nCT Cadaver Head data - A 113-slice MRI data set of a CT study of a cadaver\nhead. \n\nMR Brain data - A 109-slice MRI data set of a head with skull partially\nremoved to reveal brain.\n\nRNA data - An electron density map for Staphylococcus Aureus Ribonuclease.\n\n\n27) Specific references on spatial data structures including quadtrees\n\tand octrees\n\nH. Samet,\nThe Design and Analysis of Spatial Data Structures,\nAddison-Wesley, Reading, MA, 1990.\nISBN 0-201-50255-0.\n\nH. Samet,\nApplications of Spatial Data Structures: Computer Graphics, Image Processing, a\nnd GIS,\nAddison-Wesley, Reading, MA, 1990.\nISBN 0-201-50300-0.\n\n\n28) Where can I get a program to plot XY(Z) data or f(x) data?\n\nGnuplot is a command-driven interactive data/function plotting program. It\nruns on just about any machine, and is very flexible in terms of supported\noutput devices. The official North American distribution site for the latest\nversion is dartmouth.edu in /pub/gnuplot. More information is available from\nthe USENET newsgroup comp.graphics.gnuplot and its FAQ, graphics/gnuplot-faq.\n\nACE/gr (xmgr - Motif/xvgr - XView) is a data/function plotting tool for \nworkstations or X-terminals using X. Available from ftp.ccalmr.ogi.edu\nin /CCALMR/pub/acegr.\n\nrobotx (Robot) is a general purpose plotting and data analysis program.\nRequires XView, X-terminal or workstation. Available from sunsite.unc.edu\nin /pub/academic/data_analysis.\n\nXgraph is a popular two-dimensional plotting program that accepts data in a\nform similar to the unix program graph and displays line graphs, scatter plots,\nor bar charts on an X11 display. Available from ic.berkeley.edu in /pub.\n\nDrawplot is a program for drawing 2D plots on X10/X11 windows, SUNVIEW\ndisplays, or HP2648 terminals. Available from xcf.berkeley.edu in /src/local.\n\n29) Specific references on PEX and PHIGS\n\n PEXlib Programming Manual, Tom Gaskins, 1154 pages, O'Reilly & Associates,\n\tISBN 1-56592-028-7\n\n PEXlib Reference Manual, edited by Steve Talbott, 577 pages, O'Reilly &\n\tAssociates, ISBN 1-56592-029-5\n\n PHIGS Programming Manual, Tom Gaskins, 908 pages, O'Reilly & Associates,\n\tISBN 0-93775-85-4 (softcover), ISBN 0-937175-92-7 (casebound)\n\n PHIGS Reference Manual, edited by Linda Kosko, 1099 pages, O'Reilly &\n\tAssociates, ISBN 0-937175-91-9\n\n\n30) SIGGRAPH Online Bibliography Project\n\nThe ACM SIGGRAPH Online Bibliography Project is a database of over 15,000\nunique computer graphics and computational geometry references in BibTeX\nformat, available to the computer graphics community as a research and\neducational resource.\n\nThe database is located at \"siggraph.org\". Users may download the BibTeX\nfiles via FTP and peruse them offline, or telnet to \"siggraph.org\" and log\nin as \"biblio\" and interactively search the database for entries of interest,\nby keyword.\n\nAdditions/corrections/suggestions may be directed to the admin,\n\"bibadmin@siggraph.org\".", "THE WHITE HOUSE\n\n Office of the Press Secretary\n (Vancouver, British Columbia) \n______________________________________________________________\n\n\n BACKGROUND BRIEFING\n BY\n SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS\n\n\n April 4, 1993\n\t \n Canada Place\n Vancouver, British Columbia \n\n\n9:40 A.M. PST\n\t \n\t \n\t Folks, we're about to start the BACKGROUND BRIEFING \non the aid package.\n\n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Good morning. The \nPresident -- President Clinton and President Yeltsin agreed \nyesterday on a series of American initiatives to support economic \nand political reform in Russia, and it's valued at $1.6 billion. \n\n\t Before taking your questions and running through the \nbasic outlines of this package, I want to make a few points. \nFirst, this is the maximum that the Clinton administration can do \nwith available funds to support Russian reform. All of the funds \nhave been allocated and appropriated by the Congress. There is \nno need for the administration to go back to the Congress to fund \nany of these programs. All our Fiscal Year '93 funds currently \nare available, so in effect, all of these programs can begin \ntomorrow.\n\t \n\t The second point is that this package is designed to \nsupport Russian reformers. All of the initiatives in the package \nare directed at reformers and for their benefit, and all have \nbeen worked out with prior consultation with the Russian \ngovernment.\n\t \n\t Third, the President is determined that we will \ndeliver on these commitments this year. The package is designed \nto maximize our ability to support reform. In designing it we \nwanted to avoid making commitments that we could not meet, and we \nfeel very confident that we can meet all of these commitments in \nfront of you.\n\t \n\t Fourth, I'd like to note the special importance of \ntrade and investment. I think it's fair to say that Russia's \ncapital and technology needs throughout the next decade extend \nwell into the hundreds of billions of dollars. No collection of \ngovernments can meet those needs; only the private sector can do \nso. And so the President and President Yeltsin agreed to make \ntrade and investment a major priority in the relationship. \n\t \n\t They also agreed that there would be a new joint \ncommission on energy and space formed, headed on the U.S. side by \nVice President Gore; on the Russian side by Prime Minister \nChernomyrdin. And the goal of this effort is to break through \nthe barriers to trade and investment on both sides and to promote \na vastly expanded relationship.\n\t \n\t If it would be helpful I'd be prepared to run down \nthe first page, which is a summary of U.S. assistance, and just \ngive you some general background on what these programs are. \nI'll do it quickly and then I'll be glad to take questions.\n\t \n\t The first group of initiatives are humanitarian food \nand medical assistance. This is part of our effort which has \nbeen underway for several years to provide basic humanitarian \ngrant food assistance so that the Russian government can assure \nthere's at least a minimal amount of bread on the shelves in the \nmajor cities. That's $194 million in grant -- that is from Food \nfor Progress, the grant portion of Food for Progress. We'll also \nbe continuing our grant assistance in medicines and \npharmaceutical supplies, and that's $30 million.\n\t \n\t The second item is concessional food sales. As you \nknow, the United States has had a long-term grain relationship \nwith Russia. It's important to us and it's important to Russia \nthat we continue that relationship. The President has chosen the \nFood for Progress program which is a concessional loan program. \nThe value over the next seven months is $700 million. These are \nconcessional terms. The exact terms have not been worked out, \nbut I think it's fair to say there will be a grace period on \nprincipal of six or seven years, and concessional rates \nthereafter for the life of the deal.\n\t \n\t The third program is a collection of private sector \nsupport. We think this is one of the most important things we're \ngoing to do. Privatization and the creation of small businesses \nis the number one priority of the reform government in Moscow. \nAnd so the President has decided to create a Russian-American \nenterprise fund capitalized this year at $50 million. And the \ngoal of this fund is to make direct loans to small businesses in \nRussia, to take equity positions in those businesses. \n\t \n\t The President has also decided to create a \nprivatization fund which would work directly with the Russian \ngovernment in its priority objective of trying to convert state \nenterprises from a state-owned basis to a private basis. He has \nalso agreed -- the President has also agreed to establish a \nEurasia foundation. This would be a private foundation led by \nprominent Americans to fund democratization projects in Russia.\n\t \n\t The fourth grouping you see there in the summary \npage is democratization itself. I think it's fair to say that \nthis administration has given a new impetus to the goal of \npursuing democratization in Russia. You see that we have a total \nof $48 million in programs, various programs. The detailed \ntables give an indication of some of the programs that we're \nlaunching. \n\t \n\t The President is also calling for the development of \na democracy corps, which will be an overarching umbrella group to \ntry to incorporate all of the disparate private and public \nefforts now underway from the United States to support reform in \nRussia.\n\t \n\t The fifth program you see is Russian office of \nresettlement. This is a new initiative created and \nconceptualized by this administration. This is a demonstration \nproject. What we'd like to do is work with the Russian military \nto help resettle Russian officers returning from the Baltic \nstates and other parts of the former Soviet Union. We want to \nmake sure that we work out the best way to do that, whether it's \nwith Russian labor and Russian materials or using prefab American \nconstruction. And so we've decided to fund on a demonstration \nbasis the construction of 450 housing units. We'll be working \nvery closely with the Russian military on this. And I would say \nthat we have a long-term commitment to this project. \n\t \n\t The sixth area is energy in the environment. They \nare two issues that the President feels strongly about. Our \ninitial efforts will be feasibility studies to look into the \npossibility of enhancing their energy production, both oil and \ngas; and equally important trying to cut down on the leakages in \nthe oil and gas pipeline systems, which cause so much \nenvironmental damage.\n\t \n\t I've talked a little bit about trade and investment, \nabout the new group being created that the Vice President will \nchair on our side. Secretary Ron Brown will also be cochairing \nwith Deputy Prime Minister Shohkin, a business development \ncommittee, which will work in all other sectors of the economy, \nto break down the many barriers that currently exist and impede \ntrade and investment. We are also going to appoint a full-time \ninvestment ombudsman in the American government to work on this \nproblem full-time. \n\t \n\t And the point I'd like to make here is, trade and \ninvestment in the 1990s is every bit as important, to draw an \nanalogy, as arms reductions was in the '70s and '80s. And we \njust thought that in looking at this we needed to make a \ncommitment within our own government to have people work on it -- \nsenior people on a full-time basis, because it is terribly \nimportant.\n\t \n\t You'll notice that the United States is going to \nsupport Russia's membership in the GATT. Russia has had observer \nstatus. Russia has requested our support and, in fact, requested \nour advice in becoming a member of the GATT. We think that the \nlong-term goal of drawing Russia into the global economy is \nparamount, a very important goal. And that is why we are \nsupporting the membership in the GATT. We are also supporting \ntheir access to GSP, the Generalized System of Preferences. \n\t \n\t You'll note that Ex-Im has extended $82 million in \ncredit for a caterpillar deal in Siberia, that OPIC has extended \n$150 million in credits and loan guarantees for a Conoco oil \nproject. I'd like to emphasize that we are very close to an \nagreement between Russia and the United States for a $2-billion \nframework facility through the Ex-Im Bank that would finance \nRussian purchases of American oil and gas equipment and services. \nWe think this is a very important development. We think we'll \nget there by April 14th, which is the opening day of the Tokyo \nconference, the G-7 conference.\n\t \n\t Before I take any further questions, I'd like to \ndefer to my colleague, who will review the security assistance \nobjectives with you.\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Our major \nunfinished agenda with the Russians and with their counterparts \nin Ukraine, Kazakhstan and Belarus is in the area of the safe and \nsecure dismantlement of the nuclear arsenals on their territory \nunder the terms of the START I and START II agreements. \nRecently we completed in Moscow three, I think, very important \nagreements that devote a significant chunk of Nunn-Lugar funding \nto three important programs. The first is the program of $130 \nmillion for the strategic nuclear delivery vehicle dismantlement \nprogram. That is for submarines, for ICBM dismantlement and for \nbomber dismantlement -- $130 million.\n\t \n\t The second is a $75 million tranche of funding for \nthe construction of a facility to store nuclear materials removed \nfrom the warheads as they are dismantled. This will essentially \ncontribute to the overall design and the early phases of the \nconstruction of that storage facility. \n\t \n\t And finally, a $10-million tranche of money to help \nin the establishment of a monitoring system for the nuclear \nmaterials as they are withdrawn from the weapons system. So we \nadd that $215-million total to the extant Nunn-Lugar assistance \nwhich has been flowing -- about $150 million for some overall \nsafety improvements for various kinds of equipment and safety \nmeasures that we have been working out with the Russians over the \nlast couple of years. \n\t \n\t So this is an area where we will be going a lot more \nwork with not only the Russians but with the Ukrainians, Kazhaks, \nand Belarussians. Belarus, for example, has just, in the last \ncouple of weeks, received up to $65 million in FY'93 funds for \nsafety, security and dismantlement programs on Belarussian \nterritory. And this was in the wake of their ratification of \nSTART I, an agreement to accede to NPT. \n\t \n\t So we are working very hard with all the parties to \nthe Lisbon protocols, and will continue to work very hard with \nthem. And I look upon these three recent agreements with Russia \nas a very important step in that process.\n\t \n\t Q\t The OPIC funds to -- is that for the field in \nKazhakstan -- and Conoco already signed this deal with \nKazhakstan. Why do you feel now it is necessary -- if it's the \nsame one, why do you feel it's necessary?\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: It's not the same \ndeal. Chevron signed a deal with Kazhakstan, the Tenges oil \nfield. This is a new investment project. It's a polar lights \noil development and renovation project, and it's being announced \ntoday. So it's completely new.\n\t \n\t Q\t Can you tell us more about what's involved?\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Yes. Conoco, like \nother American oil companies has been searching for ways to do \ntwo things. One, to prospect for new oil in Siberia, west \nSiberia; and two, to try to get into the business of renovating \noil wells and renovating pipelines, both oil and gas, in Russia. \nThe objective here, obviously, is to take advantage of the \nnatural resources in Russia, increase energy production, which \nwill, in turn, increase hard currency revenues, which is what \nRussia needs.\n\t \n\t So we think this deal is very, very good development \nfor Russia. The Russians do as well, and it's good for an \nAmerican company. And the American government has played a \nleading role in pulling this together through the credit facility \nin OPIC and through the loan guarantee.\n\t \n\t Q\t So it's to search and also to renovate fields \nthat are already there?\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: That's right.\n\t \n\t Q\t On that point, should other American companies \nexpect to get administration support for such deals, or should \nthey now go to the Ex-Im and try to get the money out of the $2 \nbillion?\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Well, as you know, \nEx-Im is part of the U.S. government and various parts of the \nU.S. government have been pushing, including the State Department \nand the White House for this deal to be consummated. And we \nthink it will. And if we arrive at this agreement by April 14th, \nthere will be $2 billion in financing available for American \ncompanies to sell their equipment and sell their services.\n\t \n\t Q\t That should take up all of the rest of the \ndeals and their won't be -- and their will or there won't be \nsupport for OPIC sort of deals such as this Conoco?\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: There's a \ntremendous amount of interest on the part of American oil and gas \ncompanies to invest in Russia. We think that the Ex-Im oil and \ngas facility, the $2-billion facility, once it is concluded, will \nsoak up a lot of that interest. But I think the interest may \neven extend beyond that. And if so, the government will respond.\n\t \n\t Q\t What's the current year budget costs of that \n$2-billion agreement should it go forward? And is there any \ncurrent year budget costs --\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: I'll have to refer \nyou to Ex-Im for that. I don't know the details of that.\n\t \n\t Q\t The concessional food sales -- is there any \ncurrent year costs to that, or is it delayed until the years in \nwhich the payments are due?\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: The concessional \nfood sales are from Food for Progress, which is a USDA program. \nUSDA has the funds, we don't need to go back to the Congress to \nexpend those funds. There will be a hit in the budget. I'd \nrefer you to USDA and OMB for the details on that.\n\t \n\t Q\t Can you talk about the Democracy Corps?\n\t \n\t Q\t and the private sector -- how many folks are \ngoing to be involved in that?\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Why don't I start \nwith the Democracy Corps first. I think the administration felt \ncoming into office that there were literally thousands of \norganization, private organizations in the United States that in \none way or another were working at the goal of trying to achieve \ndemocratization in Russia, helping on a farmer-to-farmer basis. \nAnd there were literally 10 or 15 U.S. government agencies that \nhad a variety of programs in this area. And so the \nadministration felt -- the President felt it was important to try \nto draw all of these initiatives together under one group to give \nsome coherence to the efforts and to give some impetus to the \nefforts. And so this is a presidential initiative.\n\t \n\t It will be headed by Ambassador Tom Simons who will \nsoon take up his duties as the coordinator for U.S. assistance in \nthe former Soviet Union. And we're very hopeful that we might \nuse this Democracy Corps not only to draw upon the resources of \nour own government, but the resources of the American private \nsector and schools and communities across the nation.\n\t \n\t Q\t any kind of commitment yet, any kind of word \nyet on FY'94, and any new money that needs to be appropriated \nbesides the $300 million the President talked about?\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: The administration \nis requesting additional funds in FY'94 of $700 million. What \nthe President has done this weekend is to consult really \nintensively yesterday with President Yeltsin about additional \nmeasures the United States could take in some of these areas to \nsupport reform. He'll be consulting with the Congress. When he \nreturns to Washington, he'll be consulting also with the other \nally governments, and we'll make a decision at that time.\n\t \n\t Q\t Two questions about the $700 billion \nagricultural money. First of all, I thought it was the sort of \nconsensus that what Russia did not need was more loans for food. \nSo why did you decide to do it that way? Secondly, could you \nexplain -- agriculture has been stopped from making further loans \nfor food because of Russia's inability to pay. How does this fit \ninto that situation?\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: As you know, the \nUnited States for a long time has been a major supplier of grains \nand food commodities, agricultural products to Russia. I think \nbetween 1991 and '92 we had extended -- a little bit of history \nhere -- about $5.5 billion in credits, credit guarantees, through \nthe Commodity Credit Corporation. That was the principal vehicle \nto ensure the sale of American grain products. On December 1 of \nlast year, '92, the Russian government stopped its payments on \nthat program. They are now in arrears to us on that program, and \ntherefore, by law, the United States cannot continue that \nprogram. And so the President, working with Secretary Espy and \nother officials in the Cabinet, looked for other ways that we \ncould promote American grain sales. \n\t \n\t And I think we have two ways to do that. We've \nannounced today $194 million in grant food assistance through the \nFood for Progress program. But we do not have sufficient \nauthority to spend $700 million in grant food, and so we looked \nfor a concessional loan program. \n\t \n\t I think everybody agrees that Russia -- that a \nshort-term loan program for Russia would not make sense now, but \na long-term concessional loan program would. And that is what \nthis program is. It will provide, once the final details are \nworked out, for a six to seven-year grace period on payments of \nprincipal. And then from years seven through 15, which is the \nlife of the deal, it will provide for concessional rates of \ninterest -- generally around three to four percent. And so we \nbelieve and the Russian government believes this is a good deal \nfor them because it will avoid the imperative of early payments \nand put them into the out years, but it will also continue this \nvery important grain relationship, which is important for them, \nand it's important for the American farm community.\n\t \n\t Q\t I gather from what you say that this could make \nit explicit -- the Russians' failure to pay the interest on ECC \nloan does not in any way affect this kind of loan going through, \nis that right? \n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Let me be explicit \nabout that. We are prevented under the law to from continuing \nthe Commodity Credit Corporation short-term credit program \nbecause of Russia's arrearages to the United States. All of you \nknow about those arrearages. They total about, I think, around \n$640 million. USDA can give you an exact figure. So having \ntaken that into consideration and wanting to preserve American \nmarket share and a long-term grain relationship, wanting to \nrespond to a specific request from the Russian government for \nmajor food assistance, knowing that we couldn't take it from the \ngrant programs because we don't have sufficient authority there, \nwe looked at Food for Progress, which is a program we've used to \ngreat effect in other parts of the world. And we consulted with \nthe Russian government and arrived at this solution. \n\t \n\t I think the Russians are pleased because it provides \nthem with the food, but also gives them a little bit of relief on \nthe short-term payments.\n\t \n\t Q\t Where do those funds actually come from?\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: They come from the \nFood for Progress program, which is a program under USDA's \nauthority. USDA has the authority to spend these funds. We do \nnot need to go back to the Congress for these funds. And I want \nto make that general point again: Everything in this package, \nthe $1.6 billion package, comprises funds that have already been \nallocated and appropriated by the Congress. The administration \ncan begin to spend these monies tomorrow. And it's very \nimportant in our eyes that we expend all the funds this year, \nthat we meet these commitments. And we are confident we'll be \nable to do so.\n\t \n\t Q\t How did you arrive at the figure of $700 \nmillion -- does that max out that program, or did you actually \nhave a range from 0 to --\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: There's a reason \nfor it. The reason was that the Russian government told us \nthat's about the amount of grain that they needed between now and \nharvest time. And so the idea is that we would begin the \nshipments probably $100 million per month from now until the \nharvest in the autumn, at which time Russia won't require the \nsame level of food imports from the West.\n\t \n\t Q\t I would imagine there's going to be some \nconsiderable envy and jealousy on the part of some of the other \nrepublics because of the size and the scope of this with Russia. \nHave you given any consideration to advancing negotiations for \nthe same kinds of projects with the Ukraine, with Georgia , with \nsome of the other republics?\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Yes, we're very \nconscience of the fact that we also have an interest in extending \nAmerican support to the 11 other countries of the former Soviet \nUnion. We have told ourselves, and we have planned that in the \narea of technical assistance, the grant technical assistance that \nyou see, roughly 50 percent of the funding will go to Russia and \nroughly 50 percent to the other countries. \n\t \n\t In the area of food sales, we have been active with \nUkraine, in grant food assistance with Georgia and Armenia. We \nwill continue that. And I think it's fair to say that after this \nsummit we will go back and look at all of our programs with the \nother countries to ensure that they are adequate and they are \nproductive and they're hard-hitting.\n\t \n\t Q\t Has anything happened at the summit to lead \nAmerican energy companies and other companies to believe that \nRussia is going to be more user-friendly toward them in terms of \ntaxing, legalities, bureaucracy?\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Well, one of our \nprimary objectives coming into this summit was to highlight, not \nonly the economic agenda, but also trade and investment. And I'd \nlike to refer to the point I made at the beginning. We're \nconvinced in talking about this problem -- the problem of how to \nsupport Russia long-term -- we're convinced that no collection of \nWestern governments have the financial resources over the next \ndecade to fuel the continuation of reform, that only the private \nsector can do that. \n\t \n\t We look at our own society and we see tremendous \ncapability in resources in the oil and gas sector. It is a very \ngood match with what the Russians need now, which is financial \ninvestment in the existing oil and gas wells and pipeline and new \ntechnology and new capital to finance new production. \n\t \n\t That's what the Russian government has told us it \nwants to do, and so that's why we have made such a major emphasis \non it. That's why trade and investment was a prominent issue on \nthe first day of these talks, and in fact, figured prominently \nlast night in the meeting between President Yeltsin and President \nClinton. And we're hoping that together we might send a strong \nsignal to the American business community that we support their \nefforts to invest in Russia, that the United States, through Ex-\nIm and OPEC and the Department of Commerce, will be there to \nsupport them.\n\t \n\t Q\t My question is, is Yeltsin in any position to \ndeliver on making Russia a more --\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: We think he is. I \nwould note that President Yeltsin's Prime Minister, Mr. \nChernomyrdin, worked for 30 years in the Russian oil and gas \nsector. He will now chair a high-level commission with the Vice \nPresident, Vice President Gore, to try to break through the \nbarriers that currently exist to Western investment in the oil \nand gas sector. We believe we have a commitment to make that \ncommittee an important committee. And we're looking forward to \nthe work.\n\t \n\t Q\t What type of mechanism is already in place to \nadminister the private sector portion of the program? And will \nthe U.S. be directly involved in the tail end of distribution of \nthe actual funds or is the money simply turned over to the \nRussian government for distribution at their will?\n\t \t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Are you talking \nabout the variety of programs listed here? It depends on the \nprogram itself. In most cases, though, we are either working \nthrough American PBOs or American government agencies to ensure \nthat the money obviously is well spent, that the money gets to \nthe intended source. That's an obligation we have to the \nCongress to ensure the money is well spent and that we can \naccount for the money. We have done that in the last couple of \nmonths intensively and we will continue to do it for each of \nthese programs.\n\t \n\t But they are all quite different. For instance, in \nthe area of grant food and medical assistance, for grant food it \nis carried out through USDA and USDA accounts for the delivery of \nthe food. For grant medical assistance, we've been working \nthrough Project Hope which is a private organization. For the \nhousing -- for instance, the resettlement of Russian officers, \nwe'll be working with a group of American PBOs. On some of the \ndemocratization projects, we're working directly with Russian \nprivate individuals and private foundations. We're working with \njournalists in Russia on a media project that you may have \nnoticed.\n\t \n\t So we literally have here 30 to 40 different \nactivities under all these rubrics and they're all going to be \ncarried out in slightly different ways. Some directly with the \nRussian government, some with Russian citizens.\n\t \n\t Q\t The Jackson-Vanik restrictions that remain and \non the COCOM restrictions that remain, can you tell us what the \nPresident has to do on that?\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Well, as George \nnoted yesterday, President Yeltsin raised these as irritants in \nthe relationship. The President has noted that. I think it's \nfair to say we will go back now in our own government when we \nreturn to Washington and look at both of these questions, and \nwe'll get back to the Russian government.\n\t \n\t Q\t You were not prepared for these questions when \nyou got here?\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: We were prepared \nfor these questions. We've looked at them. But we're not \nprepared to make a quick decision this weekend. They require --\nlet me just explain, particularly on Jackson-Vanik. They require \nconsultation with the Congress. They require consultation with \nthe American Jewish community. And we're very sensitive to those \nconcerns. And so we'll want to go back and talk to them before \nwe take any action.\n\t \n\t Q\t Is this package designed so that you will not \nhave to go to Congress for anything at this point?\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: As I said at the \nbeginning, the advantage of this particular package is that all \nthe funds have been allocated and appropriated by the Congress. \nSo the administration will not have to go back to the Congress to \nseek any additional authority to fund any of these efforts. In \neffect, they can all begin tomorrow, and I know that many of the \nagencies responsible for these projects will begin tomorrow. And \nthat's the advantage of this particular initiative.\n\t \n\t Q\t If this, as the President says, is a long-term, \nlong-haul thing, and members of Congress are at this moment \nheading for Moscow, why aren't you talking about going to \nCongress and suggesting to the President of Russia that you are \nprepared to go to Congress for various things?\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: I think we've been \nclear about that. The President is discussing this weekend with \nPresident Yeltsin some additional ideas that we have for American \nfunding of additional projects, and ideas that he has. We have a \nmajor congressional delegation that left last night, headed by \nRepresentative Gephardt and we'll want to consult with that \ndelegation and other members of Congress before doing anything. \nAnd we'll also want to consult with our allies. So that's where \nit stands now.\n\t \n\t Q\t We've been told repeatedly that a number of \nthese items represent different or new ways of spending the money \nalready appropriated. Could you just tick off which of these \nitems represents reprogramming or at least spending money in ways \nthat it was not previously set to be?\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: I think that we've \nsaid that these are all projects that either Congress had \nallocated money for through the Freedom Support Act; there were \nsome funds that were left over from FY'92. And this \nadministration took office and had some new ideas about how the \nfunds might be expended.\n\t \n\t We didn't use just the Freedom Support Act funds or \nthe FY'92 funds. We went into some of the agency allocations --\nEx-Im, OPIC, and USDA -- and tried to look for creative ways to \nfurther our programs.\n\t \n\t And example of that is the Food for Progress \nconcessional loans. We had hit a brick wall with another type of \nfunding through USDA. We could not go forward legally, and so we \nlooked for a more creative way to ensure continued American \nmarket share and ensure continued grain sales, and we think we \nfound it.\n\t \n\t Q\t Where, for example, are you getting the money \nfor this Russian officer resettlement --\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: That's from the \nFreedom Support Act funds.\n\t \n\t Q\t In other words, all of the money is being \ndirectly spent in new ways, so to speak --\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Most of the grant \nprojects that you see -- if you look at the general chart, the \nsecond chart, it's broken down into grant and credits. And if \nyou look under grants, the technical cooperation projects that \ntotal $281.9 million -- that is almost all Freedom Support Act \nfunding. A little bit of it is leftover funds from fiscal year \n'92. The Nunn-Lugar funds, of course, you know about the \nlegislative history of those funds.\n\t \n\t Q\t cooperation --\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: From FY '92? I \ndon't have the exact figure. It was not a considerable figure.\n\t \n\t Q\t Could you tell us please, has anything happened \nhere this weekend that will break the log jam between Ukraine and \nRussia over START -- for START I and II as a result of what's \nhappened here --\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Both presidents, \nPresident Yeltsin and President Clinton, will be discussing this \nissue this morning. In fact, we haven't yet gotten to security \nand arms control related issues. That will be this morning's \nsession. I know that President Clinton will be very strongly \nreinforcing that this is a top priority for us. We've been \ntalking to the Russians and the Ukrainians over the last couple \nof weeks about ways that we might help to facilitate the \ndiscussions between them. Up to this point, this has been a very \nimportant negotiation that's been going on essentially between \nMoscow and Kiev. And we are at the point now of essentially \ndiscussing with them if there are ways that we could contribute \nto this discussion, help to move things forward essentially. \n\t \n\t But in terms of what is coming out of this weekend, \nI don't yet know. In a couple hours we'll know.\n\t \n\t Q?\t Just a follow-up on the financing here. Is \nany of this robbing Peter to pay Boris -- since it's all current \nyear appropriations, have you taken it from anyplace that's been \nearmarked and put it into this fund?\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: There are smoke and \nmirrors here, and I think it's an important point to note. We \ncould have given you a page of assistance numbers that included \nout-year funding. We're going to make a long-term commitment to \nmany of these projects -- for instance, the enterprise funds, the \nprivatization effort, the housing effort. And we've already \ntalked to the Russians about our long-term commitment. \n\t \n\t We could have put in really big numbers and this \ncould have been a bigger package, but we wanted to make a point: \nThis package is FY '93. It's funds that we have. And we're \ngoing to do what we say we're going to do. And the President \nfeels very strongly about that. In the past there is a legacy \nthat the western governments, the combination of governments, put \nup large budget figures and for any number of reasons we're not \nable to meet them, we're determined, and the President is \ndetermined, to carry out every single program in this package. \nAnd we'll do it. \n\t \n\t But we do have a longer-term commitment, and that's \npart of the discussions on economics this weekend. We're looking \nfor Russian ideas on what it is we can do to most effectively \nsupport reform. And we've told them that we do have a commitment \non some of these programs beyond this fiscal year.\n\t \n\t Q\t taken it way from any --\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: No, we haven't. \nOkay, the question is, have we reprogrammed any of these funds; \nso have we taken it from other countries to pay for programs in \nRussia? The answer is no, we have not done so.\n\t \n\t Q\t In terms of funding, there is no available \nmonies left -- and you simply find a creative way to find money \nsomewhere else. Doesn't that, in fact, support the -- theory?\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Not at all. I \ndon't think it does. That's a particular example, and the \nexample is grain sales. The Commodity Credit Corporation credit \nguarantee program was short-term loans that Russia had to pay \nback within 12 to 15 months. You all know about Russia's debt \nproblem, and Russia was unable to meet those commitments. So we \nlooked for a way to do two things: to meet Russia's requirement \nfor grain. They're a net grain importer on a massive scale, and \nalso meet our objective of making sure that the American farmers \nhave a chance to sell their products to Russia. And we simply \nlook for another way to finance that. And we have legislative \nauthority to do it. This program has been successful in other \nareas. We had not tried it before in the former Soviet Union, \nbut we thought we should now.\n\t \t \n\t Q\t Isn't this really the Bush-Clinton aid package \nfor Russia, since these funds were really first derived by \ninitiatives put forward by President Bush?\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: No, I don't think \nthat's a fair characterization. A lot of these funds were \nappropriated by the U.S. Congress is 1991, in 1992. This \nadministration took office and inherited some obligations that \nthe Bush administration had made. But we had a long six to seven \nweek review of this program. We decided to meet the commitments \nthat had been made by the previous administration. \n\t \n\t But we have gone well beyond them in funding the \nenterprise fund, which was just an idea, but the idea had not \nbeen filled out with a program. There was no number attached to \nit. In grouping together some projects and trying to make them \ninto a coherent whole in the privatization effort, I would say, \nis another Clinton initiative. \n\t \n\t Further, we listened to the Russian government and \nlistened to the Russian military who told us that the \nresettlement of their officers was important to them for \npolitical and economic and social reasons. And President Clinton \nhas responded to that. And we are making a long-term commitment \nthat beyond this demonstration project we're going to figure out \na way to do much more in trying to settle those officers. \n\t \n\t I would also say that the President has given \nimpetus to all of us in the agencies to think much more broadly \nabout what it is we can do on democratization, because there we \nhave some experience and some comparative advantage that lends \nitself to the Russian experience. And in calling for the \ncreation of a democracy corps, which is another new initiative, \nwe're hopeful that we can take the resources of the private \nsector as well as the American government, to achieve that \nobjective. \n\t \n\t So I would not characterize it that way at all. And \nas most of you know, I am a career civil servant. I was in the \nlast administration. I'm very familiar with what the last \nadministration did. And I would characterize this as a Clinton \nassistance package for Russia.\n\t \n\t Q\t There's been a lot of criticism that aid in the \npast has not gotten to the people. Is there anything in this \noutside of the ombudsman, that will guarantee that this money \nwill not just disappear because it's being administered by the \nRussian government?\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: I think that -- I \nknow that the President and other senior officials of our \ngovernment are concerned that American money be spent wisely and \nthat it get to the source that it's intended -- for which it's \nintended. And so we're going to take great care -- AID and the \nState Department will take great care in making sure that the \nfunds are expended properly and that they're reaching their \nsource.\n\t \n\t I would not that this package is not simply a \npackage of support solely to the Russian government. Some of \nthese projects, especially in democratization and exchanges, are \ngoing to be worked out directly with Russian private individuals, \nwith businesses. The private enterprise support is another \nexample of that.\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: If I could just add \na word on this point with regard to the SSD-related programs, one \narea that we've been looking at very, very closely is \nconsideration of actually using Russian firms in subcontracting \nfor these kinds of programs. They would be working very closely, \nof course, with the American firms, who would be the prime \ncontractors. But this is a fine example, I think, of a more --of \na imaginative and flexible approach toward getting some of that \nfunding down to the grassroots level, down to the ground in \nRussia; but at the same time ensuring that it is spent \nefficiently and for the purposes for which it was intended.\n\t \n\t Q\t When would the democracy corps start? Exactly \nwhen do you see this happening? How would get it off the ground?\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Well, the President \nis today calling for the creation of a democracy corps. I think \nit's fair to say that we're going to work out its framework over \nthe next couple of weeks. Ambassador Simons takes up his duties \non May 1st. But in effect we've already started, because over \nthe last couple of weeks the administration has begun to reach \nout to people in the private sector who have come to us asking us \nto help facilitate their activities in Russia. And we've said \nthat we will be helpful. We've also tried to kind of coordinate \nin a much more effective way the activities of our own \ngovernment. We do have 10 or 15 agencies that are active in \nRussia in one way or another. We think it makes sense to draw \nthem together and to focus their efforts.\n\t \n\t Q\t Excuse me. How much of this $1.6 billion will \nactually be spent in the United States by American made goods?\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: I don't have any \nfigures for you now, but perhaps we could try to work something \nup in the next couple of days on that.\n\t \n\t Q\t This figure is larger than the figure that has \nbeen in the press -- did this program grow yesterday as a result \nof the discussions, or have we just been that far off the mark?\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: No, I think --\nunfortunately the press has been a little bit off the mark, and \nI'm sorry to say that. No, this package -- President Clinton put \nus to work about seven weeks ago on this package. And he was \nbriefed intensively on this. He contributed a lot of the \nintellectual leadership in this package. He contributed a lot of \nthe ideas in the package. And I think it's fair to say that we \nhad this rough package worked out about two weeks ago. We have \nbeen refining it ever since. We spent a couple of days last week \ngoing over it with the Russian government, both the embassy in \nWashington and the government in Moscow through our own embassy. \nAnd so it's been evolving. But this particular package has been \ntogether for about two weeks.\n\t \n\t Q\t Where is Yeltsin's input into this then? There \nwas so much talk before about the President wanted to get \nYeltsin's views about specifically what was needed and so forth. \nIs that in the out years?\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: No, it's both. \nPresident Yeltsin has on several occasions told us, for instance, \nthat support for the creation of private businesses is important \nto him; that the resettlement of Russian military officers is \nimportant; and that first and foremost the effort to privatize \nthe state industries is important to them. \n\t \n\t And so what we did was to try to make those the \ncenterpiece of our technical assistance part o the package. We \nlistened to him. On the privatization effort, we have been \nworking with the Russian government for months on this trying to \nwork out all the details. So the Russian government on most of \nthese programs was involved every step of the way. \n\t \n\t But let me get at the other part of your question. \nThe President is also using this weekend to talk about a broader \nset of initiatives that we might undertake. And we're looking \nfor his ideas. The President has brought his own ideas to the \ntable -- for instance, on energy and the environment and in \nhousing. But we're looking for Russian ideas not. We need to \nconsult with the Congress; and we need to consult with the other \nallied governments that are also active.\n\t \n\t Q\t There's essentially nothing that happened in \nthe last day and a half that measurably altered the package that \nyou came in with?\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: This particular \npackage, as I said, was worked out and was ready about two weeks \nago. We have since then consulted with the Russian government on \nthe final stages of its development, and so this weekend we've \nprimarily talked about future, about what more the United States \nand other Western countries can do to support reform in Russia, \nwhich is our base objective here.\n\t \n\t Q\t I noticed that you -- that money appropriated \nto train bankers and businessmen and officers. Can you tell me \nwhat about job training for workers who are displaced by \nprivatization?\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: You're right; we \nhave a program to train Russian -- young Russians in banking and \nfinancial services in the United States. Part of the housing \ninitiative, it's not just to build housing units, it's to retrain \nRussian officers who are retiring into other professions.\n\t \n\t Q\t money for job training for workers whose \njobs are disappearing because of privatization --\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: We have not yet \nallocated any money for that.\n\t \n\t Q\t Why not?\n\t \n\t Q\t of the $6 million is going to build 450 \nhousing units. Isn't that a lot of money per unit given what the \nWestern dollar will buy in the former Soviet Union?\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: If you want to do \nhousing the right way, it's not just the building the framework \nof a house, you've got to think about all the utilities. You've \ngot to think about the purchase of land. You've got to think \nabout sewage and gas and electricity and so forth. And it's also \nretraining. It's not enough to put retired -- an officer coming \nout of -- Riga or Tallin or Vilnius in a house in western Russia. \nWe think we have an obligation to try to retrain those officers \nas well. This is responding to a request from the Russian \ngovernment.\n\t \n\t Q\t of the $6 million will go to retrain --\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: That's right.\n\t \n\t Q\t Are you talking about apartment buildings or \nsingle --\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: We're talking about \nsingle, individual dwellings.\n\t \n\t Q\t You're saying that only 450 families will be \nserved by this?\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: What I want to -- I \nthought I pointed out earlier, this is a demonstration project. \nWhat we didn't want to do -- given the experience that the \nGermans and the Turks and the Italians have had in building \nhousing in western Russian, we did not want to leap into it with \na huge amount of money. What we want to do is work over the next \ncouple of months and try to figure out with American \norganizations in the private sector the best way to get this job \ndone. \n\t \n\t I noted that we have a long-term commitment to that. \nAnd so I would expect that we would put a lot more money into \nthis in the future . But we want to do it wisely; we want to \nspend the money wisely.\n\t \n\t Q\t What is it about this program that convinces \nyou that it will protect Russia's reforms and that Russia will be \nin a position to may back the money they're supposed to pay back, \nespecially considering their other debt problem?\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Well, look, I think \nit's important to note that the United States on its own does not \nhave the capability to fuel a continuation of Russian reform. \nIt's got to be a collective Western effort, and we're looking to \nour allies to do more as well. But beyond that, it's really what \nthe Russians do that is going to decide the fate of reform. We \ncan simply play a role, and we feel we have an obligation to do \nso, which is consistent with our national interests.\n\t \n\t Q\t Did the President say that the value of the \nU.S. contribution was that it would create security and \nprosperity for the United States? So what is it about this \nprogram that does this?\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: I think you have to \ngo back to the fundamental objective of our policy toward Russia, \nand that is we want to do everything we can to support the \ncontinuation of reform. We are convinced that if reformers stay \nin power, then we'll be able to continue the drawdown of nuclear \nforces, foreign policy cooperation and economic interaction, \nwhich are the three benefits to the United States from reform in \nRussia. So it's not a simple question. You can't just say that \nthis program is the answer. It's a long-term question and we \nhave to make a long-term commitment to it.\n\t \n\t Q\t And then on the question of Russia's ability to \nrepay, what convinces you they'll be able to pay seven to 15 \nyears from now?\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Well, the Russian \ngovernment has made a commitment to repay, and what we're hoping \nis that if reform continues, and if they can continue to improve \ntheir oil and gas sector and earn additional hard currency \nrevenues, that Russia will be in a position six or seven years \nfrom now to pay back those loans.\n\t \n\t Q\t substantial government-to-government loan \nwe've ever gotten into with the Russians?\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: I don't want to \nanswer authoritatively on that. I don't go back 20 or 30 years \non this. But in the last four or five years, yes it is, because \nthe previous way that we financed grain exports was really to \njust ensure private bank loans. This is a different type of \neffort.\n\t \n\t Q\t government loans in any other sector that \nyou recall? I know it wasn't done in --\n\t \n\t SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: I think it's fair \nto say this is a new and unique effort.", "\nDear Elias, \n\nI counted at least 4 such answers in public (plus whatever private\nemail replies you may have received), yet you refuse to accept\nanything. Perhaps you are better off in the private world of the\n\"Center for Policy Research\" in Iceland where you can define\n\"sensible\" in whatever way makes you feel most comfortable.\n", "\n\nI think the is BZ gas, not CS or CN. BZ gas exposure results in projectile\nvomiting, loss of essentially all muscle control, inability to concentrate\nor think rationally and fatal reactions in a significant fraction of\nthe population. For that reason its use is limited to military\napplications.", "\n Thanks for these surreal moments....\n Srinivas", "OK I posted this B4 but:", "\nAnd the reason that the Soviet Union couldn't achieve the ideal of pure\ncommunism was the hostility of surrounding capitalist nations...Uh huh.\nSomehow, this all sounds familiar. Once again, utopian dreams are \nconfronted by the real world...\n", "\n\n\nApparently you *didn't* read the whole thing. You continue to miss the point.\n\n\n\n[deletions]\n\n\n\nCounselling that only provides alternatives to abortion would be just as\nbiased as counselling that only provides *abortion* information. How about\nproviding counselling that will give a woman help in finding what *she* is\ncomfortable with.\n\nYour adoption-funding idea may be a good one. Any idea if it is feasable?\n\n\n\n\nMaking adoption easier on the birth-mother may help reduce abortion, but\nit will *not* eliminate the need for it. Abortion is not done just because\nthe mother can't care for the child and doesn't feel good about giving it\nto strangers. Abortion is done because the mother can not afford the\n*pregnancy*.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nThen please justify why being \"human\" automatically makes something valuable.\nAnd why that includes the unborn.\n\n\n\n\nNo, they are not guaranteed to become productive members of society. Even\nif they do that is *MANY YEARS* in the future--until which they are a burden\non someone, or society. There is also the matter of the mother. Forcing\nher to carry a pregnancy to term at a critical time in her life could prevent\nher from being a productive member of society.\n\n\n\n\n\n\nOk, look. It's like this. We *are* footing the bill. Maybe they will\ntake choice A. Maybe they will take choice B. Maybe they will take choice\nC. They can't afford any *one* of them. If they take choice A we'd have\nto pay them, say $5. If they take choice B it would cost us $20. If they\ntake choice C it will cost us $20 now and a hell of a lot more for the next\n18 years. Which one sounds the most realistic for us to be willing to pay\nfor? Now some people happen not to like choice A. Other people happen\nnot to like choice C (paying for it, that is). C has been around and paid\nfor for years. Even though it means we spend a lot of money, we can't in\nconscience refuse to pay for it. Now A has been around and is perfectly\nlegal, but it hasn't been funded in the past. Now A is going to be funded\nbut some people object. They don't like the idea of their tax money going\nto pay for choice A. So we could refuse to fund A at all. Then those\nwomen who can't afford any of those choices will be forced to take choice\nB or C, which will cost *all of us* more money. Most of us don't see any\nreason at all why *more money* should be spent to the effect of *removing\npersonal choice* from some women. The alternative is to fund A if that is\nwhat the mother chooses. We will also still fund B and even C if *that*\nis what the mother chooses. However, some women will certainly choose A,\nand that will then save us $15 we otherwise would have had to spend. Your\n\"taxes\" are not being raised to fund a choice you object, they are being\n*lowered* because we will fund a choice that is *legal*, despite your\nobjections to it. (Actually, your taxes are not really going to go down,\nas I'm sure you would point out. But the amount that is saved in that\narea can help out in another--like our massive debt.)\n\n\n\n\n\nThose other procedures you mention only cost money. There is no savings\nin other procedures that would be required down the road without them.\n(In fact, there could be additional costs down the road *because* of them.)\nThis is quite different from the case of abortion.\n\n\nThis is bullshit. We are *not* refusing \"to make the alternative affordable\ntoo\". If we refused to pay for the more expensive choice of birth, *then*\nyour statement would make sense. But that is not the case, so it doesn't.\nIf Clinton tried to block funding for pre-natal care and delivery (or left\nit out of his health-care plan), I would certainly object. I would also be\nquite surprised.\n\n\n\nYes, but probably not your definition of it, or for the reasons you think.\n\n\nYOU STUPID FUCK! *WE DO* want to fund *all* the choices. *YOU* are the\none who wants to *NOT* fund all the choices.\n\n\nYour humble opinion is still wrong. Even with easy adoption, there is still\nthe fact that pregnancy takes several months. Months in which a young woman\ncould need to be getting an education. (like finishing High School, entering\ncollege, finishing college, getting a job...things that are much harder to\ndo if you have to \"take a break\" for a few months...things that have a massive\nimpact on her future productivity.)\n\n\n\n\nYou *can* have a conversation with the \"mentally incompetant\". And even\nthough *you* personally may refuse to have a conversation with \"people\nyou just don't like\", it is still *possible* for others to have a conversation\nwith them. It is *not* possible for *anyone* to have a conversation with\na fetus.\n\n\n\nHe was still biologically independent. At least to the same extent you are\nnow. He consumed nutrients and digested them in the normal manner. He\nbreathed his own air. A fetus on the other hand, gets it's nutrients already\ndigested by the mother. It gets its oxygen from the mother as well. That\nis not biologically independent.\n\n\n\nAwareness is only *part* of what makes a \"member of society\". It is the\nminimal conceivable requirement, yet many people seem to think that something\nwithout awareness could still be important enough to justify the suffereing\nof a true member of society. I keep asking, but I still haven't seen a real\njustification for why the life of a non-sentient creature should be worth the\nsuffering of a sentient being. (I haven't read every response on the threads\nI've been asking on, yet, so we'll see if I see one later.)\n\n\n\nAnyone who can program in UNIX has a lot of experiences in the real world.", "Does anyone have any Russian Contacts (Space or other) or contacts in the old\nUSSR/SU or Eastern Europe?\n\nPost them here so we all can talk to them and ask questions..\nI think the cost of email is high, so we would have to keep the content to\nspecific topics and such..\n\nBasically if we want to save Russia and such, then we need to make contacts,\ncontacts are a form of info, so lets get informing.\n\n==\nMichael Adams, nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu -- I'm not high, just jacked", "\n\nBBS number\n510-226-2365", "The federal civil rights trial against the four LA police\nofficers accused of violating Rodney King's civil rights is\nnow history:\n\n Lawrence Powell:\tguilty\n Stacey Coons:\t\tguilty\n Theodore Brazenio:\tinnocent\n Timothy Wind:\t\tinnocent\n\n Sentencing slated for mid August, appeals expected.\n\n So far, all is calm in LA...\n-- ", "With regards to my condemnation of Marc's ridiculous attacks on the\nAmerican Department of Justice, and further attacks on Jews, to\nanyone who took offense to my calling Marc stupid, I\napologize for pointing out the obvious. It was a waste of the\nNet's time. I hope, though, that most American citizens have\nthe basic knowlege of the structure of American government to\nunderstand the relationship between the Justice Department\nas a part of the Executive Branch, and the Courts, which\nare of the Judicial Branch. \nMarc's ignorance of basic civic knowlege underscores his\ninability to comprehend and interpret foreign affairs. \n", "Has anyone use Snooper or MacEKG or any other similar diagnostic \nsoftware.Any comparisons/reviews on these products would be very much \nappreciated.\n\nThanks in advance for your help\n\nCheers\n--\n", "\nUnfortunately, Hoover thought himself above the constitution, whatever he\nconsidered the limits others should obey. He ruthlessly invaded the privacy\nof many private and public citizens. \n\n -mel", "\n\n\nThis means you would support a ban if it were narrow enough. Good.\n\n\nI would hope so. Let's define a nuclear weapon as an explosive weapon\nwhose majority of energy comes from fission and/or fusion of atomic\nnuclei. Let's define a biological weapon as live organisms or viruses \nin such state, quantity, and with such a vector that they could cause \ndeath or serious disease [further defined] to a significant number of\npeople if released in a city, similarly populated area, resevoir, or\ncropland. \n\n\nNerve gas and mustard gas are well defined. Other poisonous\ngasses should be individually banned only if it can be shown that there\nis no use not related to weaponry. Licenses should be available for\nresearch purposes on such chemicals.\n\nI am not a lawyer, but these ideas could certainly be a basis for \ndefinitions.\n\n\nNope. It is not considered a weapon.\n\n\nIt is not defined as a weapon of mass destruction. Many things are\nbanned for other reasons.\n\n\n", "\n- They invented the \"how to make money on others ideas\".\n- They made money.\n- They weren't in the air at the wrong time...\n\nAdmit it BillG is a damn smart guy. How many out there can make money on \nalmost useless products...Useless even if you look at the time Dos were \nwritten..it stinked already then..\n\nIf I could choose one marketing guy in the world, I think I would choose \nhim. He's so good that almost everyone hates him, but they still use his \nstuff...\n\n\n ThomasEZ.\n\n ' I'm not perfect, but I'm perfect for you. '", "\nThe Houston Chronicle last Thursday (maybe Wednesday) said that\nthe interior of walls had been covered with hay bales to help\nprotect against bullets. Many of you know how fast dry hay\nburns.\n\n\nIn addition, the gas is specifically designed to force eyes\nclosed and the victim to vomit. How fast could you leave your\nburning office or home if your eyes were closed and you were\nretching violently?\n\n\n\n-- ", "Library of Congress to Host Dead Sea Scroll Symposium April 21-22\n To: National and Assignment desks, Daybook Editor\n Contact: John Sullivan, 202-707-9216, or Lucy Suddreth, 202-707-9191\n both of the Library of Congress\n\n WASHINGTON, April 19 -- A symposium on the Dead Sea \nScrolls will be held at the Library of Congress on Wednesday,\nApril 21, and Thursday, April 22. The two-day program, cosponsored\nby the library and Baltimore Hebrew University, with additional\nsupport from the Project Judaica Foundation, will be held in the\nlibrary's Mumford Room, sixth floor, Madison Building.\n Seating is limited, and admission to any session of the symposium\nmust be requested in writing (see Note A).\n The symposium will be held one week before the public opening of a\nmajor exhibition, \"Scrolls from the Dead Sea: The Ancient Library of\nQumran and Modern Scholarship,\" that opens at the Library of Congress\non April 29. On view will be fragmentary scrolls and archaeological\nartifacts excavated at Qumran, on loan from the Israel Antiquities\nAuthority. Approximately 50 items from Library of Congress special\ncollections will augment these materials. The exhibition, on view in\nthe Madison Gallery, through Aug. 1, is made possible by a generous\ngift from the Project Judaica Foundation of Washington, D.C.\n The Dead Sea Scrolls have been the focus of public and scholarly\ninterest since 1947, when they were discovered in the desert 13 miles\neast of Jerusalem. The symposium will explore the origin and meaning\nof the scrolls and current scholarship. Scholars from diverse\nacademic backgrounds and religious affiliations, will offer their\ndisparate views, ensuring a lively discussion.\n The symposium schedule includes opening remarks on April 21, at\n2 p.m., by Librarian of Congress James H. Billington, and by\nDr. Norma Furst, president, Baltimore Hebrew University. Co-chairing\nthe symposium are Joseph Baumgarten, professor of Rabbinic Literature\nand Institutions, Baltimore Hebrew University and Michael Grunberger,\nhead, Hebraic Section, Library of Congress.\n Geza Vermes, professor emeritus of Jewish studies, Oxford\nUniversity, will give the keynote address on the current state of\nscroll research, focusing on where we stand today. On the second\nday, the closing address will be given by Shmaryahu Talmon, who will\npropose a research agenda, picking up the theme of how the Qumran\nstudies might proceed.\n On Wednesday, April 21, other speakers will include:\n\n -- Eugene Ulrich, professor of Hebrew Scriptures, University of\nNotre Dame and chief editor, Biblical Scrolls from Qumran, on \"The\nBible at Qumran;\"\n -- Michael Stone, National Endowment for the Humanities\ndistinguished visiting professor of religious studies, University of\nRichmond, on \"The Dead Sea Scrolls and the Pseudepigrapha.\"\n -- From 5 p.m. to 6:30 p.m. a special preview of the exhibition\nwill be given to symposium participants and guests.\n\n On Thursday, April 22, beginning at 9 a.m., speakers will include:\n\n -- Magen Broshi, curator, shrine of the Book, Israel Museum,\nJerusalem, on \"Qumran: The Archaeological Evidence;\"\n -- P. Kyle McCarter, Albright professor of Biblical and ancient\nnear Eastern studies, The Johns Hopkins University, on \"The Copper\nScroll;\"\n -- Lawrence H. Schiffman, professor of Hebrew and Judaic studies,\nNew York University, on \"The Dead Sea Scrolls and the History of\nJudaism;\" and\n -- James VanderKam, professor of theology, University of Notre\nDame, on \"Messianism in the Scrolls and in Early Christianity.\"\n\n The Thursday afternoon sessions, at 1:30 p.m., include:\n\n -- Devorah Dimant, associate professor of Bible and Ancient Jewish\nThought, University of Haifa, on \"Qumran Manuscripts: Library of a\nJewish Community;\"\n -- Norman Golb, Rosenberger professor of Jewish history and\ncivilization, Oriental Institute, University of Chicago, on \"The\nCurrent Status of the Jerusalem Origin of the Scrolls;\"\n -- Shmaryahu Talmon, J.L. Magnas professor emeritus of Biblical\nstudies, Hebrew University, Jerusalem, on \"The Essential 'Commune of\nthe Renewed Covenant': How Should Qumran Studies Proceed?\" will close\nthe symposium.\n\n There will be ample time for question and answer periods at the\nend of each session.\n\n Also on Wednesday, April 21, at 11 a.m.:\n The Library of Congress and The Israel Antiquities Authority\nwill hold a lecture by Esther Boyd-Alkalay, consulting conservator,\nIsrael Antiquities Authority, on \"Preserving the Dead Sea Scrolls\"\nin the Mumford Room, LM-649, James Madison Memorial Building, The\nLibrary of Congress, 101 Independence Ave., S.E., Washington, D.C.\n ------\n NOTE A: For more information about admission to the symposium,\nplease contact, in writing, Dr. Michael Grunberger, head, Hebraic\nSection, African and Middle Eastern Division, Library of Congress,\nWashington, D.C. 20540.\n -30-", "\n (stuff deleted)\n\n [First point. What they are doing is wrong, just as what\nJoseph's brothers did was wrong, just as what Judas did was wrong.\nThey intend it for evil. If God somehow brings good out of it, that\ndoes not make them any less subject to just condemnation and\npunishment.\n Second point. Of course, God will bring good out of it. But not\nthe same good that He would have brought if the Serbians had\nrefrained from the sins of robbery and rape and murder. Nor does the\ngood He purposes excuse us from the duty of doing what is right.]\n", "Yes, you increase the RPM slip of a \"boxer\" type fan by installing\na capacitor in series with the fan's power supply. The air flow of\nsmall 3.5 inch fans can be reduced by about 50% by using a 1 to 4\nuF capacitor. Use a good grade nonpolarized unit with working\nvoltage rating around 250 volts. Note that some impriical study is\nusually required to experimentally determine the best size\ncapacitor for a given application.\n\nFor DC powered applications, try the Radio Shack 12 volt box fan.\nIt can run and start reliably from as low as about 4.5 VDC. It is\nexceptionally quiet, but at admittedly low flow. I wish I knew who\nmade the fans for Radio Shack.\n\n", "In the Monday, May 10 morning edition of the San Jose Mercury News an\narticle by Sandra Gonzales at the top of page 12A explained convicted\nkiller David Edwin Mason's troubled childhood saying,\n\n\t\"Raised in Oakland and San Lorenzo by strict fundamentalist\n\tChristian parents, Mason was beaten as a child. He once was\n\ttied to a workbench and gagged with a cloth after he accidently\n\turinated on his mother when she walked under his bedroom window,\n\tcourt records show.\"\n\nWere the San Jose Mercury news to come out with an article starting with\n\"Raised in Oakland by Mexican parents, Mason was beaten...\", my face would\nbe red with anger over the injustice done to my Mexican family members and\nthe Mexican community as a whole. I'm sure Sandra Gonzales would be equally\nupset.\n\nWhy is it that open biggotry like this is practiced and encouraged by the\nSan Jose Mercury News when it is pointed at the christian community?\n\nCan a good christian continue to purchase newspapers and buy advertising in\nthis kind of a newspaper? This is really bad journalism.", "Hmmm...\n A possibility for the software registration conondrum would be to have the\ndistributor register the copy when the software was sold. The clerk sticks it\nin the store PC and asks for the buyers ID. Later, if pirated versions showed up they could be tracked to the original purchaser. In addition copies which were\nsent to distributors/stores would have a vendor reg # or serial # in order to\ntrack in store piracy.\n\nPossible additional program security schemes would be:\n1. having monthly password changes which necessitate user call in\n and registration. (inconvenient)\n2. taking dire legal action on anyone caught (expensive)\n3. encryption, crc check, self modifying code (limited effectiveness)\n4. have an independent watchdog program in the installation/setup config or\n memory manager, etc. which would check the main program's crc. \n (only as effective as above methods at best.)\n5. have the above watchdog circulating as a virus which would trash cracked \n copies of the program and/or the offenders hard drive. (risky, and probably\n illegal, certainly immoral)\n\nmy new ideas aren't terribly feasible to implement as presented, but I thought\nif I threw them out people could think of variations that might be effective.\nWhat is the problem with parallel port security keys? I haven't used anything\nthat had hardware key copy protection schemes, so I don't know what the\ndrawbacks are. I know the companies that make them claim they're uncrackable,\nbut I've seen cracks of AutoDesk 3d-studio floating around (I don't have one\nso don't ask) and I had heard that it had parralel port keys.", "\nWomen who are known not to want abortion services, for example,\nmight be judged to be more likely to require prenatal care &\ncoverage for childbirth... which can be an order of magnitude\nmore expensive than abortion. \n\nThis topic should really be restricted to talk.abortion, which\nexists to relieve t.r.m & t.p.m of abortion flamage. \n", "\nOh, yeah. This is a fine place. We haven't had the \"why does concrete\nkill lead-acid batteries\" thread in at least six months.\n\n\nThe concrete simply sucks all the electrons out of the battery and drains\nthem into the ground.\n\nAnother explanation, implausible as it is, is that the lead-acid battery\nneeds to be periodically charged (topped-off), otherwise the battery\nself-discharges and then undergoes irreversible chemical reaction.\n\nNaawwwww.... the concrete sucks the life out.\n", "\nUsing greenhouses to extend the growing season shouldn't be a problem.\nI'm supprised they don't do so in Alaska (cheaper to import, perhaps?)\n\n\nNo, the Incas had no problems with this, but the Spanish did.", " Dandridge Cole and Isaac Asimov collaborated on a book titled,\n\"Habitable Planets for Man\" (I think) in 1964. It should be available\nin most good libraries, or through inter-library loan.\n\n It answered the questions you ask (speculatively, of course), along\nwith many more that need to be considered in habitability studies:\nlength of day (for day/night temperature variation, and agricultural\nconcerns), partial pressures of certain unexpected gasses (ever hear of\nxenon narcosis? neither did I), density of particulates in the atm, and\ntheir composition (ever hear of silicosis? not much fun), etc.\n\n Climate isn't a global phenomenon and probably needn't concern you,\nbut axial tilt ought to. It plays a large part in determining the\nseverity of seasonal differences, and a lesser but still significant\npart in determining the speed of prevailing winds.", "THE WHITE HOUSE\n\n Office of the Press Secretary\n (Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania)\n______________________________________________________________\nFor Immediate Release April 17, 1993 \n\n\t \n INTERVIEW OF THE PRESIDENT\n BY MICHAEL WHITELY OF\n KDKA-AM RADIO, PITTSBURGH\n\t \n Pittsburgh International Airport\n Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania \n\n\n\n10:40 A.M. EDT\n\t \n\t \n\t Q\t For everyone listening on KDKA Radio, I'm Mike \nWhitely, KDKA Radio News. We're here at the Pittsburgh \nInternational Airport and with me is the President of the United \nStates Bill Clinton.\n\t \n\t And I'd like to welcome you to the area and to KDKA.\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, Mike. Glad to be here.\n\t \n\t Q\t There are a lot of things we'd like to talk \nabout in the brief amount of time we have, but some news is just \nbreaking from Los Angeles. I guess the entire country has been \nkind of holding their breath, wondering what's going to happen in \nthe trial of the four Los Angeles police officers. We just heard \nthat two of those officers, the sergeant, Sergeant Koon and \nOfficer Powell have been found guilty, and two officers have been \nfound not guilty.\n\t \n\t It's a situation that's been building for over a \nyear since the first trial and now this trial and this verdict. \nAnd I wonder what your thoughts are this morning on how you see \nthe situation in Los Angeles in connection with your \nadministration and what you're trying to do.\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: Well, first of all, I think the \nAmerican people should know that this trial, in my judgment, is a \ntribute to the work and judgment of the jury, as well as to the \nefforts of the federal government in developing the case.\n\t \n\t The law under which the officers were tried is a \ncomplex one; the standards of proof are complicated. The jury \ndecided that they would convict the sergeant who was responsible \nfor supervising the officers and the officer who on the film did \nmost of the beating. The jury acquitted an officer who kicked \nRodney King, but also plainly tried to shield him from some \nblows, and another officer who was a rookie.\n\t \n\t No one knows exactly why they did what they did, but \nit appears that they really tried to do justice here. They \nacknowledged that his civil rights were violated. And I think \nthat the American people should take a lot of pride in that. But \nI hope now we can begin to look ahead and focus on three things: \nfirst of all, the importance of trying to bring this country \ntogether and not violate the civil rights of any American; \nsecondly, the importance of renewing our fight against crime. \n\t \n\t I think it's important to recognize that in the \npoorest areas of Los Angeles and many other cities in this \ncountry, people may be worried about police abuse, but they're \neven more worried about crime. It's time that we renewed our \nefforts to go to community policing -- put 100,000 more police \nofficers on the street; pass the Brady Bill that would require a \nwaiting period before people could buy a handgun, and do some \nother things to reduce the vulnerability of our people to \nviolence and drugs.\n\t \n\t And the last point I'd like to make is it seems to \nme that we have got to rededicate ourselves to the economic \nrevitalization of our cities and other economically-distressed \nareas. If you just think about it -- if everybody in Los Angeles \nwho wanted a job had one, I don't think we'd have quite as many \nproblems as we do. \n\t \n\t And I laid out a very ambitious program in the \ncampaign to try to bring private investment and public investment \nto bear in our cities. I have dispatched the Commerce Secretary, \nRon Brown, to California to try to come up with some strategies \nfor that state, because it's our biggest state with our highest \nunemployment rate -- which could then be applied around the \ncountry. I want to talk to him and to the Attorney General, to \nthe new head of the NAACP, to Reverend Jackson, and to several \nother people, and then I'll decide where to go from here with \nregard to Los Angeles and the other cities of the country.\n\t \n\t Q\t Let's talk about what brings you to the \nPittsburgh area today. There have been -- I guess there's been a \nlot of discussion on Capitol Hill about your stimulus package. \nYou've been locked in a battle with the GOP. Yesterday, as you \nsaid earlier in your radio address, you made some moves to break \nthat gridlock. What brings you to Pittsburgh, in particular to \nAllegheny County, in particular to Pennsylvania, with that \nbattle?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: Well, there are two reasons. First \nof all, Pittsburgh, Allegheny County and Pennsylvania supported \nme in the last election because they wanted a new direction in \neconomic policy. We have passed our overall economic plan; it \ngives the country a very different budget for the next five years \nthan we've had in the previous 12. We reduced the deficit and, \nat the same time, increased investment in jobs and education and \nhealth care, in the things that will make us a stronger country.\n\t \n\t But in addition to that, I asked the Congress in the \nshort run to spend a little more money, a modest amount of money \nto create another half-million jobs in the next year and a half; \nto try to cut the unemployment rate by a half a percent; but also \nto try to spark job creation in the private sector more. The \nplan passed the House. It has the support of a majority of the \nSenate. At the present time, all the Republican senators as a \nbloc are filibustering the bill. That is, they won't let it come \nto a vote.\n\t \n\t I believe that Senator Specter would like to vote \nfor the bill. And I believe that Senator Dole, the Republican \nleader, has put a lot of pressure on a lot of the Republicans to \nstay hitched. And they're all saying that this bill increases \nthe deficit. It doesn't. This bill is well below the spending \ntargets that Congress approved, including the Republicans, for \nthis year. This bill is paid for by budget cuts in the next five \nyears. This bill is designed to give a jump-start to the \neconomy. And I must say, a lot of the Republican senators that \nare holding it up, when Mr. Bush was President, voted for \nbillions of dollars of emergency spending of just this kind --\nmuch of it was totally unrelated to creating jobs.\n\t \n\t So what I'm trying to do is to break this logjam. \nI've held out an olive branch, I've offered a compromise. But I \nthink that we ought to try to put some more Americans to work \nright now to show that we're changing the direction of the \ncountry. And that's the purpose of the bill.\n\t \n\t Q\t Have you been in touch with Senator Specter or \nhis office lately?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: Well, we've been trying to talk \nregularly to -- through my White House Congressional Liaison \noperation to the senators that we think are open to this --\nSenator Specter, Senator D'Amato from New York, Senator Jeffords \nfrom Vermont, Senator Hatfield from Oregon, and five or six \nothers whom we believe know we need more jobs in this economy and \nknow that we are paying for this with budget cuts over the life \nof the budget I presented.\n\t \n\t You know, it has a lot of appeal to say, well, we've \ngot a big deficit, we shouldn't increase it more. But the truth \nis that we are paying for this with budget cuts in the whole life \nof the budget over the next few years. And more importantly, we \nhave this program well below the spending targets that Congress \nhas already approved for this year. And they've done this for \nyears, with the Republicans voting for it -- many Republicans \nvoting for it -- for things that weren't nearly as important as \nputting the American people back to work. \n\t \n\t So I just hope that this doesn't become a political \nissue. It ought to just be about the people of this country and \nthe need for jobs.\n\t \n\t Q\t I have some questions from people who supported \nyou, and some people who are skeptical about your administration. \nIt has to do with their hopes, and also with their fears. A lot \nof people who supported you and voted for you in Pennsylvania --I \nthink some of them are now saying, we're glad we got him in the \nWhite House, but now look at this incredible process he has to go \nthrough. Look at these problems. Look at this gridlock. And \nthey're beginning to wonder, is this going to work; can you pull \nit off? And, of course, your skeptics are saying, well, I knew \nit was going to be like this.\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: Well, what I would -- I'd ask \npeople, first of all, to remember that we are, frankly, moving \nvery fast. The budget resolution that the Congress passed is the \nfastest they have ever passed a budget resolution -- ever -- in \nhistory, setting out the next five-year budget targets. So we \nare moving really rapidly. And we've got them working on \npolitical reform, welfare reform, health care reform, a whole \nwide range of things. \n\t \n\t But it's a big operation. You can't expect to turn \nit around overnight. It took 12 years to produce the conditions \nwhich led to the victory I received from the people in November, \nand we can't turn it around in 90 days. But I think we're making \nreal, real progress. \n\t \n\t I would urge the people not to get discouraged. \nWe're not going to win every battle, and not everything is going \nto happen overnight. But we are definitely moving and changing \nthings.\n\t \n\t Q\t Thank you very much. \n\t \n\t The President of the United States, Bill Clinton, \nhere live at Pittsburgh International Airport. I'm Mike Whitely, \nKDKA News.", "\n\n\nI take it you mean President Nixon, not private citizen Nixon. Sure.\nNothing I'm doing would be of the slightest interest to President Nixon .\n\nDavid\n\n", "\nIt's not what they did that matters. It's what *you* do and\nwhat *I* do and what *we* do in response that matters. Do we\nlessen ourselves by killing in response to killing? It's\nvengeance. That's all. It's no deterrent. It serves no\npurpose but to slake somebody's blood lust.\n\n\nYeah yeah yeah... and sure would be nice if we didn't apply the\ndeath penalty disproportionately to minorities. I'll revisit my\nopinion on the death penalty when there are more whites up for\nit than blacks. I.e., when hell freezes over.\n", "\n\nUp to 60 microamperes = on hook\n\nOver something like 10 mA = off hook\n\nIn between = defective line, and the phone company comes looking\n for leaky insulation.\n\n\n", " >drug dealers, spies, terrorists, and organized crime figures (assuming\n >enough probable cause to convince a judge) who need to be watched, not\n >law-abiding citizens.", ": >If I remember correctly, the reason that BMW's come with those expensive,\n: >and relatively worthless, short lived Varda batteries, is 'cause BMW owns\n: >a controling interest in that battery Manufacturer. \n\n: What's wrong with the BMW battery? I've never had problems and I know\n: numerous people that are still using the original battery in there\n: 8-10 year old beemers.\n\nTHe original battery in an 8-10 year old BMW may be fine. Mine lasted many\nyears. The replacement 30AH battery from BMW was a disaster. The mechanic\nfrom Comp. Acc. told me that CA would warantee replace the bad one with a\nnew one of the same evil bad batteries and tell the customer if they have\nproblems to bring it back and they'd do it again. It seems that many of\nthose 30AH batteries were DOA, near-DOA, and always unlikely to be going\nstrong by the end of the warantee period on them. THere was a big batch of\nbad ones, and they replaced them with -you guessed it - more bad ones. BMW\nswitched to a 25AH battery that has more cold cranking amps, even if it has\nless total juice. \n\nI switched to a YUASA that has even more cold cranking amps and cost one\nthird fewer dollars.\n", "\n\nYeah, me. Both the Slickmeister and Hillary's buddy Janet say\nthey're responsible... I want both their resignations on my desk \nyesterday. I also want both thier butts up on federal civil rights\nviolations.... something which carries life in prison as a penalty.\n\nOh, and I'll contribute $20 to Arlen Specter's presidential campaign\nfor having the 'nads to launch the Senate investigation.", "In making batteries you could use copper and zinc in an acid electrolyte. \nCopper=copper wire (pennies are now mostly zinc if I recall correctly)\nzinc= zinc strip (Hardware stores arround here (Seattle) sell this to prevent\n moss buildup on the roof. An alternative would be to use a galvanized\n (zinc coated) nail\nelectrolyte= lemon juice -> Citric acid is the active ingrediant(sp).\n \nVolta (late 18th century scientist) used a stack for his batteries-\ncopper disk, paper disk soaked in acid, zinc disk, copper disk, paper ....\nthey were advanced technology for the time. ", "\nI'm sure zero-intested economical systems survive on a small-scale,\nco-ops is not an Islamic invention, and we have co-operatives working\nall around the world. However such systems don't stand the corruption\nof a large scale operation. Actually, nothing could handle human\ngreed, IMHO. Not even Allah :-).\n\nCheers,\nKent", ":>Top Ten Ways Slick Willie Could Improve His Standing With Americans\n:>\n:>10. Institute a national sales tax to pay for the socialization of\n:> America's health care resources.\n:>\n:>9. Declare war on Serbia. Reenact the draft.\n:>\n:>8. Stimulate the economy with massive income transfers to Democtratic\n:> constituencies.\n:>\n:>7. Appoint an unrepetent socialist like Mario Cuomo to the Suprmeme Court.\n:>\n:>6. Focus like a laser beam on gays in the military.\n:>\n:>5. Put Hillary in charge of the Ministry of Truth and move Stephanopoulos\n:> over to socialzed health care.\n:>\n:>4. Balance the budget through confiscatory taxation.\n:>\n:>3. Remind everyone, again, how despite the Democrats holding the\n:> Presidency, the majority of seats in the House, and in the Senate,\n:> the Republicans have still managed to block his tax-and-spend programs.\n:>\n:>2. Go back to England and get a refresher course in European Socialism.\n:>\n\n ***SNIP***\n\nAnd the number one way Slick Willie could improve his standing with\nAmericans...\n\n(Drum roll Anton)\n\n1. Get himself an appointment with Dr. Kervorkian - and keep it!\n\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n** John Kerrigan a.k.a. jmkerrig@vela.acs.oakland.edu **", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\nYeah, right.\n\n\n\n\n\nSo, let's see. If some guy writes a piece with a title that implies\nsomething is the case then it must be so, is that it?\n\n\nThis supports nothing. I have no reason to believe that this is \npiece is anything other than another anti-Islamic slander job.\nI have no respect for titles, only for real content. I can look\nup this article if I want, true. But I can tell you BCCI was _not_\nan Islamic bank. Seeing as I'm spending my time responding to\npropaganda (in responding to this little sub-thread) I really\ndon't feel a deep need to do more than make statements to the\neffect that the propaganda is false. If someone wants to discuss\nthe issue more seriously then I'd be glad to have a real discussion,\nproviding references, etc.\n", "\n\n\n\nIt is good to remember that every translation is to some extent an\ninterpretation, so (as you point out below) one must really go back to\nthe original Arabic. Regarding the verses relevant to nature, I prefer\nto use Dr. Maurice Bucaille's translations (in his book, \"The Bible, the\nQur'an and Science\") for in general his translations are more literal.\n \nMaurice Bucaille translates the portion of the verse you are addressing\nas \n\n\"...Each one is travelling with an orbit in its own motion.\"\n\n(Also note that \"the celestial bodies\" in the first translation quoted\nby you above is the translator's interpolation -- it is not existent in\nthe original Arabic, which is why it is included in brackets.) \n\n\nYou're right, what the verses _do_ contain isn't all that remarkable.\n\nHowever, Dr. Bucaille (a surgeon, that's how he's a \"Dr.\") thinks it is\nsignificant that the above verse contains no geocentric ideas, even\nthough geocentrism was all the rage up until the 17th century (?) or so.\n(And this goes for the rest of the Qur'an as well, which has about 750\nverses or so regarding nature, I think I remember reading once.)", "\nYes.\n\n\nPlease describe these \"number of ways\" in detail. Then explain the any\ncontradictions that may arise.\n\n\nDefine \"difficult\".\n\n\nExplain the laws in America stating that you have to drive on the right-\nhand side of the road.\n\n\nSo if every member of the species was homosexual, this wouldn't be destructive\nto the survival of the species?\n\n\nThe whole \"theory\" needs to be reexamined...", "\n\n\n\n\n\tYeah, I'm also curious as to why you felt compelled to remind us of the\nguy's race. BTW, I don't mean to imply that you're clueless or anything, but\nthe statement was *hardly* \"benign\". \n-- \n\n\n", "\n\nI don't think I've changed my stance at all. My original stance was that\na painless execution was not a cruel one. I didn't say what would be\nconsidered cruel, only that a painless death wasn't. Now, cruelty must\ninvolve some sort of suffering, I believe. I don't think someone that gets\nshot in the head or electrocuted really suffers very much. Even a hanging\nprobably produces one sharp instance of pain, but it's over so quickly...\n\n\nPardon?\n\n\nNo. Well, again I stated that a painless death isn't cruel, but I don't\nthink I stated that all painful executions *are* cruel. I think that some\nare cruel, depending on the nature and duration of the pain.\n\n\nAnything more than an instant, I guess. Any death by suffocation\nasphyxiation, or blood loss would be cruel, I think (this includes the\ngas chamber, and drawing and quartering). I'd say that any pain that\nlasts, say, over twenty seconds or so would be too long (but this may\nbe an arbitrary cutoff, I suppose).", "NO SURRENDER!\nDelivered by Lenda Jackson at the RKBA Rally in Denver, April 18, 1993\n\nIt is a fact of modern life that urban residents, particularly women, feel\nthreatened. A certain number of them actually are threatened. There are\nimmediate threats, the things that women will tell you they're afraid\nof. The noise downstairs at night. The lonely walk to the car. The\nstranger at the door. The abusive husband, finally kicked out of the\nhouse as he threatens to hurt her and their children. The burglar... The\nmugger...the rapist. \n\nAnd what are we told is the solution? Move. Get a dog. Keep the door\nlocked. Call the police. as a next-to-last resort, learn martial arts. and\nalways, there's the implied question \"what's a pretty little thing like\nyou doing without a husband around to protect you?\n\nBut what if you don't like dogs? Like living alone? Don't have 10\nyears to devote learning judo?\n\nWhat if, after examining the facts, a woman learns that \"rape victims\nusing armed resistance were less likely to have the rape completed -\nand were less likely to be injured(Kleck,124) than those using any\nother form of resistance (Kleck,126) (also true for\nrobbery/assault)(Kleck,123) \n\nWhat if, to our horror and despair, we find that citizens cannot depend\non the police for effective protection - they usually respond after a\ncrime has been committed. In truth, the Supreme Court has held that\nthe police are not responsible for protecting any individual, only the\nwhole community.\n\nAs a society, are we going to ask women, once again, to sacrifice\nthemselves? Are we going to continue to deny women the ability to\nhelp themselves?\n\nHere's a thought. Neil Smith, in his book The Probability Broach, says\n\"no 220 pound thug can threaten the well being or dignity of a 110-\npound woman who has two pounds of iron to even things out.\" But if\na woman decides to protect herself, with the easiest, most efficient\nmeans possible, people - especially other women - are horrified.\n\"Eughh, how could you? I'd be terrified!\" they ask. How could you\nhurt someone? They'll repeat the lie: it'll just get taken away from\nyou. In truth, 1% of \"defensive gun uses\" result in the offender taking\nthe gun away from the victim.(122,Kleck)\n\nWell, despite the lies, and the social pressure, some of us have already\nmade that hard choice. We've decided that we are not going to be\nvictimized by the muggers, burglars or rapists. We're buying more\nguns than every before. We're learning how to use them - and teaching\nothers, women and men, how to use them. Most importantly, we are\npreparing ourselves mentally to use our firearms for our own defense.\nWe're taking our own security, literally, into our own hands. We're\ngoing to stop begging and pleading and marching and WHAT WE\nINTEND IS TO REALLY TAKE BACK THE NIGHT.\n\nBut there's another threat, more insatiable than any mugger, more\nsecretive than any burglar, more soul-destroying than any rapist.\n\nThat menace is government, and it threatens us all. We know that\ngovernments, throughout time, have suppressed rights and oppressed\npeople. It's the way they survive.\n\nIn our names and with our money, it interferes with innocent people\nboth at home and abroad. It lies to us, cheats us, steals from us and\nthreatens us with violence. No one knows exactly what it'll do next -\nwhat freedom we will lose because some government goon decides\n\"it's for your own safety\" or \"we know best\". Any person who acted\nlike government does would be psychoanalyzed within an inch of his\nlife and locked up as a habitual offender.\n\nBut this monster called government persists, and grows. And we, who\nshould be its masters, have become its unwilling slaves. Do you doubt\nme? Then why did you file your income tax? \n\nLike any reasonable person, I believe that being afraid of something\nthat can hurt you is smart, and that paranoia isn't crazy if someone's\nreally after you. And make no mistake, they're after you and they're\nafter me. Their names are familiar: Brady and Reynolds, Groff,\nMetzenbahm, Moynihan, and Clinton. If we're lucky, they'll settle for\nour assault rifles, our shotguns, our handguns and our ammunition. \n\nAs citizens, we have only two choices. They are the same two choices\ngiven to women: to surrender or to fight. \n\nSurrender leads to the gulag, to the genocide of Pol Pot, to the\ndisappearances, to Dachau. I do not intend to surrender. \n\nA battle can be philosophical or political: in the main, the people keep\nthe government honest by threatening to vote it out of office. But if\nthey have to, they will keep in mind the words of Thomas Jefferson:\n\"the tree of liberty must be well watered with the blood of patriots.\"\n\nAs a patriot, I will point out the error in the government's ways. I will\ndo my best to vote the villains out of office. I will protest, and write,\nand speak, and teach our children justice, honor and truth. And always\nremember that Rebellion can lead to Bunker Hill and Saratoga......or it\ncan lead to Tiananmen Square. \n\nWhen the time comes to stand up, if I have to give my life to keep\nthem from going too far, if there is a Tiananmen Square in our future,\nI intend to be there. And no matter what lies they tell and no matter\nwhat laws they pass, I intend to meet them with something more\nsubstantial in my hand than a brick. ", "[...]\n\nHow ironic.", ": >\tNot to pick on Mr. May in particular, of course, but isn't this\n: >kind of the domino theory? When one little country falls, its neighbor\n: >will surely follow, and before you know it, we're all mining salt\n: >in Siberia for not turning in our Captain Crunch Secret Decoder Rings.\n: \n: But, for all the wrongness of our attempt to correct it (VietNam, et. al.),\n: the domino theory wasn't disproved at all.\n\nIronically, the domino theory in fact *was* a reasonable metaphor for\nthe collapse of communism, from the liberalizations in Poland and\nHungary to the border crossings in the summer of '89 to the fall of\nthe Wall later that year....and then to the ultimate collapse of the\nUSSR.\n\n-Tim May", "\n\nWell, one reason for getting conflicting answers is that it depends on\nwhat you want the ground plane to do. A continuous conductor is a good \nelectrostatic shield. Do you have signals on your board that need\nshielding rom other things? This shielding won't do much good for magnetic\nfields, unless you make it continuous around the circuit to be shielded,\nlike a Faraday cage.", "\nAs has been noted before, there is the distinction between _motivation_\nand _method_. No experimental result should be accepted unless it is\ndescribed in sufficient detail to be replicated, and the replications\ndo indeed reproduce the result. No theoretical argument should be\naccepted unless it is presented in sufficient detail to be followed, and\nreasonable, knowlegeable, people agree with the force of the logic.\n\nBut people try experiments, and pursue arguments, for all sorts of crazy\nreasons. Irrational motivations are not just curiousities; they are a\nlarge part of the history of science.\n\nThere are a couple of negative points to make here:\n\n1) A theory of qi could, conceivably, become accepted without direct\nverification of the existence of qi. For example, quarks are an accepted\npart of the standard model of physics, with no direct verification. What\nwould be needed would be a theory, based on qi, that predicted medical\nreality better than the alternatives. The central theoretical claim could\nlie forever beyond experiment, as long as there was a sufficient body of\nexperimental data that the qi theory predicted better than any other.\n\n(I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the triumph of qi, though.\nI don't think that there is even a coherent theory based on it, much less\na theory that explains anything at all better than modern biology. And it\nis hard to imagine a qi theory that would not predict some way of rather\ndirectly verifying the existence of qi.)\n\n2) Science has not historically progressed in any sort of rational\nexperiment-data-theory sequence. Most experiments are carried out, and\ninterpreted, in pre-existing theoretical frameworks. The theoretical\ncontroversies of the day determine which experiments get done. Overall,\nthere is a huge messy affair of personal jealousies, crazy motivations,\npetty hatreds, and the like that determines which experiments, and which\ncomputations, get done. What keeps it going forward is the critical\nfunction of science: results don't count unless they can be replicated.\n\nThe whole system is a sort of mechanism for generate-and-test. The generate\npart can be totally irrational, as long as the test part works properly.\n\nPasteur could believe whatever he liked about chemical activity and crystals;\nbut even Mitscherlich had to agree that racemic acid crystals were handed;\nthat when you separate them by handedness, you get two chemicals that rotate\npolarized light in opposite directions; and the right-rotating version was\nindistinguishable from tartaric acid. Pasteur's irrational motivation had\nled to a replicable, and important, result.\n\nThis is where Lysenko, creationists, etc. fail. They have usually not\neven produced coherent theories that predict much of anything. When their\ntheories do predict, and are contradicted by experiment, they do not\nconcede the point and modify their theories; rather they try to suppress\nthe results (Lysenko) or try to divert attention to other evidence they\nthink supports their position (creationists).", "----------------------------Original message----------------------------\n D\"SB\n\nBelow please find an electronic copy of a leaflet put up at Warsaw U.:\n\nDEGEL*HATORAH Jewish Circle for Arts and Sciences,\nUniversity of Warsaw, Warsaw, invites you to the lecture\n*PRESENT-DAY SOCIOPOLITICAL ISSUES OF THE MIDDLE EAST*\nwhich will be delivered by Dr Mohamed SOLIMAN,\nEgypt's Ambassador to Poland.\nTime & place: 4 p.m., Tuesday, 25th May, '93, (Erev Shavuot;\nDept. of Arabic & Islamic Studies, Oriental Institute\n(Polish: Orientalistyka), University of Warsaw,\n26/28 Krakowskie Przedmies'cie Street, PL-00-927 WARSAW, Poland.\n\n:molahs ahetovit'n lohk'v * ma(on yehk'rad ahehkar'd\n * *\n############# * * * * * * * ############\n############# * * * * ############\n # * * #\n# # * * * * #\n# # * * * * * * * #\n * *\n *\n\nDEGEL*HATORAH Judaistyczne Kol/o Nauk i Sztuk\nprzy Uniwersytecie Warszawskim w Warszawie\nzaprasza na wykl/ad pt.\n*AKTUALNE ZAGADNIENIA SPOL/ECZNO-POLITYCZNE BLISKIEGO WSCHODU*,\nkto'ry wygl/osi Dr Mohamed SOLIMAN, Ambasador Egiptu w Polsce.\nCzas i miejsce: 16:00, wtorek, 25 maja, '93, (Erev Shavuot;\nZakl/ad Arabistyki i Islamistyki, Instytut Orientalistyczny,\nUniwersytet Warszawski, 26/28 Krakowskie Przedmies'cie,\nPL-00-927 WARSZAWA.", "The following partial summary of a Theory of the Universe includes a\nlittle-known description of the CREATION of our Solar System:\n\n\n LARSONIAN Astronomy and Physics\n\n Orthodox physicists, astronomers, and astrophysicists \n CLAIM to be looking for a \"Unified Field Theory\" in which all \n of the forces of the universe can be explained with a single \n set of laws or equations. But they have been systematically \n IGNORING or SUPPRESSING an excellent one for 30 years! \n\n The late Physicist Dewey B. Larson's comprehensive \n GENERAL UNIFIED Theory of the physical universe, which he \n calls the \"Reciprocal System\", is built on two fundamental \n postulates about the physical and mathematical natures of \n space and time: \n \n (1) \"The physical universe is composed ENTIRELY of ONE \n component, MOTION, existing in THREE dimensions, in DISCRETE \n UNITS, and in two RECIPROCAL forms, SPACE and TIME.\" \n \n (2) \"The physical universe conforms to the relations of \n ORDINARY COMMUTATIVE mathematics, its magnitudes are \n ABSOLUTE, and its geometry is EUCLIDEAN.\" \n \n From these two postulates, Larson developed a COMPLETE \n Theoretical Universe, using various combinations of \n translational, vibrational, rotational, and vibrational-\n rotational MOTIONS, the concepts of IN-ward and OUT-ward \n SCALAR MOTIONS, and speeds in relation to the Speed of Light \n (which Larson called \"UNIT VELOCITY\" and \"THE NATURAL \n DATUM\"). \n \n At each step in the development, Larson was able to \n MATCH objects in his Theoretical Universe with objects in the \n REAL physical universe, (photons, sub-atomic particles \n [INCOMPLETE ATOMS], charges, atoms, molecules, globular star \n clusters, galaxies, binary star systems, solar systems, white \n dwarf stars, pulsars, quasars, ETC.), even objects NOT YET \n DISCOVERED THEN (such as EXPLODING GALAXIES, and GAMMA-RAY \n BURSTS). \n \n And applying his Theory to his NEW model of the atom, \n Larson was able to precisely and accurately CALCULATE inter-\n atomic distances in crystals and molecules, compressibility \n and thermal expansion of solids, and other properties of \n matter. \n\n All of this is described in good detail, with-OUT fancy \n complex mathematics, in his books. \n \n\n\n BOOKS of Dewey B. Larson\n \n The following is a complete list of the late Physicist \n Dewey B. Larson's books about his comprehensive GENERAL \n UNIFIED Theory of the physical universe. Some of the early \n books are out of print now, but still available through \n inter-library loan. \n \n \"The Structure of the Physical Universe\" (1959) \n \n \"The Case AGAINST the Nuclear Atom\" (1963)\n \n \"Beyond Newton\" (1964) \n \n \"New Light on Space and Time\" (1965) \n \n \"Quasars and Pulsars\" (1971) \n \n \"NOTHING BUT MOTION\" (1979) \n [A $9.50 SUBSTITUTE for the $8.3 BILLION \"Super \n Collider\".] \n [The last four chapters EXPLAIN chemical bonding.]\n\n \"The Neglected Facts of Science\" (1982) \n \n \"THE UNIVERSE OF MOTION\" (1984)\n [FINAL SOLUTIONS to most ALL astrophysical\n mysteries.] \n \n \"BASIC PROPERTIES OF MATTER\" (1988)\n\n All but the last of these books were published by North \n Pacific Publishers, P.O. Box 13255, Portland, OR 97213, and \n should be available via inter-library loan if your local \n university or public library doesn't have each of them. \n\n Several of them, INCLUDING the last one, are available \n from: The International Society of Unified Science (ISUS), \n 1680 E. Atkin Ave., Salt Lake City, Utah 84106. This is the \n organization that was started to promote Larson's Theory. \n They have other related publications, including the quarterly \n journal \"RECIPROCITY\". \n\n \n\n Physicist Dewey B. Larson's Background\n \n Physicist Dewey B. Larson was a retired Engineer \n (Chemical or Electrical). He was about 91 years old when he \n died in May 1989. He had a Bachelor of Science Degree in \n Engineering Science from Oregon State University. He \n developed his comprehensive GENERAL UNIFIED Theory of the \n physical universe while trying to develop a way to COMPUTE \n chemical properties based only on the elements used. \n \n Larson's lack of a fancy \"PH.D.\" degree might be one \n reason that orthodox physicists are ignoring him, but it is \n NOT A VALID REASON. Sometimes it takes a relative outsider \n to CLEARLY SEE THE FOREST THROUGH THE TREES. At the same \n time, it is clear from his books that he also knew ORTHODOX \n physics and astronomy as well as ANY physicist or astronomer, \n well enough to point out all their CONTRADICTIONS, AD HOC \n ASSUMPTIONS, PRINCIPLES OF IMPOTENCE, IN-CONSISTENCIES, ETC.. \n \n Larson did NOT have the funds, etc. to experimentally \n test his Theory. And it was NOT necessary for him to do so. \n He simply compared the various parts of his Theory with OTHER \n researchers' experimental and observational data. And in \n many cases, HIS explanation FIT BETTER. \n \n A SELF-CONSISTENT Theory is MUCH MORE than the ORTHODOX \n physicists and astronomers have! They CLAIM to be looking \n for a \"unified field theory\" that works, but have been \n IGNORING one for over 30 years now! \n \n \"Modern physics\" does NOT explain the physical universe \n so well. Some parts of some of Larson's books are FULL of \n quotations of leading orthodox physicists and astronomers who \n agree. And remember that \"epicycles\", \"crystal spheres\", \n \"geocentricity\", \"flat earth theory\", etc., ALSO once SEEMED \n to explain it well, but were later proved CONCEPTUALLY WRONG. \n \n \n Prof. Frank H. Meyer, Professor Emeritus of UW-Superior, \n was/is a STRONG PROPONENT of Larson's Theory, and was (or \n still is) President of Larson's organization, \"THE \n INTERNATIONAL SOCIETY OF UNIFIED SCIENCE\", and Editor of \n their quarterly Journal \"RECIPROCITY\". He moved to \n Minneapolis after retiring. \n \n\n\n \"Super Collider\" BOONDOGGLE!\n \n I am AGAINST contruction of the \"Superconducting Super \n Collider\", in Texas or anywhere else. It would be a GROSS \n WASTE of money, and contribute almost NOTHING of \"scientific\" \n value. \n \n Most physicists don't realize it, but, according to the \n comprehensive GENERAL UNIFIED Theory of the late Physicist \n Dewey B. Larson, as described in his books, the strange GOOFY \n particles (\"mesons\", \"hyperons\", ALLEGED \"quarks\", etc.) \n which they are finding in EXISTING colliders (Fermi Lab, \n Cern, etc.) are really just ATOMS of ANTI-MATTER, which are \n CREATED by the high-energy colliding beams, and which quickly \n disintegrate like cosmic rays because they are incompatible \n with their environment. \n \n A larger and more expensive collider will ONLY create a \n few more elements of anti-matter that the physicists have not \n seen there before, and the physicists will be EVEN MORE \n CONFUSED THAN THEY ARE NOW! \n \n Are a few more types of anti-matter atoms worth the $8.3 \n BILLION cost?!! Don't we have much more important uses for \n this WASTED money?! \n \n \n Another thing to consider is that the primary proposed \n location in Texas has a serious and growing problem with some \n kind of \"fire ants\" eating the insulation off underground \n cables. How much POISONING of the ground and ground water \n with insecticides will be required to keep the ants out of \n the \"Supercollider\"?! \n \n \n Naming the \"Super Collider\" after Ronald Reagon, as \n proposed, is TOTALLY ABSURD! If it is built, it should be \n named after a leading particle PHYSICIST. \n \n\n\n LARSONIAN Anti-Matter\n \n In Larson's comprehensive GENERAL UNIFIED Theory of the \n physical universe, anti-matter is NOT a simple case of \n opposite charges of the same types of particles. It has more \n to do with the rates of vibrations and rotations of the \n photons of which they are made, in relation to the \n vibrational and rotational equivalents of the speed of light, \n which Larson calls \"Unit Velocity\" and the \"Natural Datum\". \n \n In Larson's Theory, a positron is actually a particle of \n MATTER, NOT anti-matter. When a positron and electron meet, \n the rotational vibrations (charges) and rotations of their \n respective photons (of which they are made) neutralize each \n other. \n \n In Larson's Theory, the ANTI-MATTER half of the physical \n universe has THREE dimensions of TIME, and ONLY ONE dimension \n of space, and exists in a RECIPROCAL RELATIONSHIP to our \n MATERIAL half. \n \n\n\n LARSONIAN Relativity\n \n The perihelion point in the orbit of the planet Mercury \n has been observed and precisely measured to ADVANCE at the \n rate of 574 seconds of arc per century. 531 seconds of this \n advance are attributed via calculations to gravitational \n perturbations from the other planets (Venus, Earth, Jupiter, \n etc.). The remaining 43 seconds of arc are being used to \n help \"prove\" Einstein's \"General Theory of Relativity\". \n \n But the late Physicist Dewey B. Larson achieved results \n CLOSER to the 43 seconds than \"General Relativity\" can, by \n INSTEAD using \"SPECIAL Relativity\". In one or more of his \n books, he applied the LORENTZ TRANSFORMATION on the HIGH \n ORBITAL SPEED of Mercury. \n \n Larson TOTALLY REJECTED \"General Relativity\" as another \n MATHEMATICAL FANTASY. He also REJECTED most of \"Special \n Relativity\", including the parts about \"mass increases\" near \n the speed of light, and the use of the Lorentz Transform on \n doppler shifts, (Those quasars with red-shifts greater than \n 1.000 REALLY ARE MOVING FASTER THAN THE SPEED OF LIGHT, \n although most of that motion is away from us IN TIME.). \n \n In Larson's comprehensive GENERAL UNIFIED Theory of the \n physical universe, there are THREE dimensions of time instead \n of only one. But two of those dimensions can NOT be measured \n from our material half of the physical universe. The one \n dimension that we CAN measure is the CLOCK time. At low \n relative speeds, the values of the other two dimensions are \n NEGLIGIBLE; but at high speeds, they become significant, and \n the Lorentz Transformation must be used as a FUDGE FACTOR. \n [Larson often used the term \"COORDINATE TIME\" when writing \n about this.] \n \n \n In regard to \"mass increases\", it has been PROVEN in \n atomic accelerators that acceleration drops toward zero near \n the speed of light. But the formula for acceleration is \n ACCELERATION = FORCE / MASS, (a = F/m). Orthodox physicists \n are IGNORING the THIRD FACTOR: FORCE. In Larson's Theory, \n mass STAYS CONSTANT and FORCE drops toward zero. FORCE is \n actually a MOTION, or COMBINATIONS of MOTIONS, or RELATIONS \n BETWEEN MOTIONS, including INward and OUTward SCALAR MOTIONS. \n The expansion of the universe, for example, is an OUTward \n SCALAR motion inherent in the universe and NOT a result of \n the so-called \"Big Bang\" (which is yet another MATHEMATICAL \n FANTASY). \n \n \n \n THE UNIVERSE OF MOTION\n\n I wish to recommend to EVERYONE the book \"THE UNIVERSE \n OF MOTION\", by Dewey B. Larson, 1984, North Pacific \n Publishers, (P.O. Box 13255, Portland, Oregon 97213), 456 \n pages, indexed, hardcover. \n \n It contains the Astrophysical portions of a GENERAL \n UNIFIED Theory of the physical universe developed by that \n author, an UNrecognized GENIUS, more than thirty years ago. \n \n It contains FINAL SOLUTIONS to most ALL Astrophysical \n mysteries, including the FORMATION of galaxies, binary and \n multiple star systems, and solar systems, the TRUE ORIGIN of \n the \"3-degree\" background radiation, cosmic rays, and gamma-\n ray bursts, and the TRUE NATURE of quasars, pulsars, white \n dwarfs, exploding galaxies, etc.. \n \n It contains what astronomers and astrophysicists are ALL \n looking for, if they are ready to seriously consider it with \n OPEN MINDS! \n \n The following is an example of his Theory's success: \n In his first book in 1959, \"THE STRUCTURE OF THE PHYSICAL \n UNIVERSE\", Larson predicted the existence of EXPLODING \n GALAXIES, several years BEFORE astronomers started finding \n them. They are a NECESSARY CONSEQUENCE of Larson's \n comprehensive Theory. And when QUASARS were discovered, he \n had an immediate related explanation for them also. \n \n\n \n GAMMA-RAY BURSTS\n\n Astro-physicists and astronomers are still scratching \n their heads about the mysterious GAMMA-RAY BURSTS. They were \n originally thought to originate from \"neutron stars\" in the \n disc of our galaxy. But the new Gamma Ray Telescope now in \n Earth orbit has been detecting them in all directions \n uniformly, and their source locations in space do NOT \n correspond to any known objects, (except for a few cases of \n directional coincidence). \n \n Gamma-ray bursts are a NECESSARY CONSEQUENCE of the \n GENERAL UNIFIED Theory of the physical universe developed by \n the late Physicist Dewey B. Larson. According to page 386 of \n his book \"THE UNIVERSE OF MOTION\", published in 1984, the \n gamma-ray bursts are coming from SUPERNOVA EXPLOSIONS in the \n ANTI-MATTER HALF of the physical universe, which Larson calls \n the \"Cosmic Sector\". Because of the relationship between the \n anti-matter and material halves of the physical universe, and \n the way they are connected together, the gamma-ray bursts can \n pop into our material half anywhere in space, seemingly at \n random. (This is WHY the source locations of the bursts do \n not correspond with known objects, and come from all \n directions uniformly.) \n \n I wonder how close to us in space a source location \n would have to be for a gamma-ray burst to kill all or most \n life on Earth! There would be NO WAY to predict one, NOR to \n stop it! \n \n Perhaps some of the MASS EXTINCTIONS of the past, which \n are now being blamed on impacts of comets and asteroids, were \n actually caused by nearby GAMMA-RAY BURSTS! \n \n\n\n LARSONIAN Binary Star Formation\n \n About half of all the stars in the galaxy in the \n vicinity of the sun are binary or double. But orthodox \n astronomers and astrophysicists still have no satisfactory \n theory about how they form or why there are so many of them. \n \n But binary star systems are actually a LIKELY \n CONSEQUENCE of the comprehensive GENERAL UNIFIED Theory of \n the physical universe developed by the late Physicist Dewey \n B. Larson. \n \n I will try to summarize Larsons explanation, which is \n detailed in Chapter 7 of his book \"THE UNIVERSE OF MOTION\" \n and in some of his other books. \n \n First of all, according to Larson, stars do NOT generate \n energy by \"fusion\". A small fraction comes from slow \n gravitational collapse. The rest results from the COMPLETE \n ANNIHILATION of HEAVY elements (heavier than IRON). Each \n element has a DESTRUCTIVE TEMPERATURE LIMIT. The heavier the \n element is, the lower is this limit. A star's internal \n temperature increases as it grows in mass via accretion and \n absorption of the decay products of cosmic rays, gradually \n reaching the destructive temperature limit of lighter and \n lighter elements. \n \n When the internal temperature of the star reaches the \n destructive temperature limit of IRON, there is a Type I \n SUPERNOVA EXPLOSION! This is because there is SO MUCH iron \n present; and that is related to the structure of iron atoms \n and the atom building process, which Larson explains in some \n of his books [better than I can]. \n \n When the star explodes, the lighter material on the \n outer portion of the star is blown outward in space at less \n than the speed of light. The heavier material in the center \n portion of the star was already bouncing around at close to \n the speed of light, because of the high temperature. The \n explosion pushes that material OVER the speed of light, and \n it expands OUTWARD IN TIME, which is equivalent to INWARD IN \n SPACE, and it often actually DISAPPEARS for a while. \n \n Over long periods of time, both masses start to fall \n back gravitationally. The material that had been blown \n outward in space now starts to form a RED GIANT star. The \n material that had been blown OUTWARD IN TIME starts to form a \n WHITE DWARF star. BOTH stars then start moving back toward \n the \"MAIN SEQUENCE\" from opposite directions on the H-R \n Diagram. \n \n The chances of the two masses falling back into the \n exact same location in space, making a single lone star \n again, are near zero. They will instead form a BINARY \n system, orbiting each other. \n \n According to Larson, a white dwarf star has an INVERSE \n DENSITY GRADIENT (is densest at its SURFACE), because the \n material at its center is most widely dispersed (blown \n outward) in time. This ELIMINATES the need to resort to \n MATHEMATICAL FANTASIES about \"degenerate matter\", \"neutron \n stars\", \"black holes\", etc.. \n \n\n\n LARSONIAN Solar System Formation\n\n If the mass of the heavy material at the center of the \n exploding star is relatively SMALL, then, instead of a single \n white dwarf star, there will be SEVERAL \"mini\" white dwarf \n stars (revolving around the red giant star, but probably \n still too far away in three-dimensional TIME to be affected \n by its heat, etc.). These will become PLANETS! \n \n In Chapter 7 of THE UNIVERSE OF MOTION, Larson used all \n this information, and other principles of his comprehensive \n GENERAL UNIFIED Theory of the physical universe, to derive \n his own version of Bode's Law. \n \n\n\n \"Black Hole\" FANTASY!\n\n I heard that physicist Stephen W. Hawking recently \n completed a theoretical mathematical analysis of TWO \"black \n holes\" merging together into a SINGLE \"black hole\", and \n concluded that the new \"black hole\" would have MORE MASS than \n the sum of the two original \"black holes\". \n \n Such a result should be recognized by EVERYone as a RED \n FLAG, causing widespread DOUBT about the whole IDEA of \"black \n holes\", etc.! \n \n After reading Physicist Dewey B. Larson's books about \n his comprehensive GENERAL UNIFIED Theory of the physical \n universe, especially his book \"THE UNIVERSE OF MOTION\", it is \n clear to me that \"black holes\" are NOTHING more than \n MATHEMATICAL FANTASIES! The strange object at Cygnus X-1 is \n just an unusually massive WHITE DWARF STAR, NOT the \"black \n hole\" that orthodox astronomers and physicists so badly want \n to \"prove\" their theory. \n \n \n By the way, I do NOT understand why so much publicity is \n being given to physicist Stephen Hawking. The physicists and \n astronomers seem to be acting as if Hawking's severe physical \n problem somehow makes him \"wiser\". It does NOT! \n \n I wish the same attention had been given to Physicist \n Dewey B. Larson while he was still alive. Widespread \n publicity and attention should NOW be given to Larson's \n Theory, books, and organization (The International Society of \n Unified Science). \n \n \n \n ELECTRO-MAGNETIC PROPULSION\n\n I heard of that concept many years ago, in connection \n with UFO's and unorthodox inventors, but I never was able to \n find out how or why they work, or how they are constructed. \n \n I found a possible clue about why they might work on \n pages 112-113 of the book \"BASIC PROPERTIES OF MATTER\", by \n the late Physicist Dewey B. Larson, which describes part of \n Larson's comprehensive GENERAL UNIFIED Theory of the physical \n universe. I quote one paragraph: \n \n \"As indicated in the preceding chapter, the development \n of the theory of the universe of motion arrives at a totally \n different concept of the nature of electrical resistance. \n The electrons, we find, are derived from the environment. It \n was brought out in Volume I [Larson's book \"NOTHING BUT \n MOTION\"] that there are physical processes in operation which \n produce electrons in substantial quantities, and that, \n although the motions that constitute these electrons are, in \n many cases, absorbed by atomic structures, the opportunities \n for utilizing this type of motion in such structures are \n limited. It follows that there is always a large excess of \n free electrons in the material sector [material half] of the \n universe, most of which are uncharged. In this uncharged \n state the electrons cannot move with respect to extension \n space, because they are inherently rotating units of space, \n and the relation of space to space is not motion. In open \n space, therefore, each uncharged electron remains permanently \n in the same location with respect to the natural reference \n system, in the manner of a photon. In the context of the \n stationary spatial reference system the uncharged electron, \n like the photon, is carried outward at the speed of light by \n the progression of the natural reference system. All \n material aggregates are thus exposed to a flux of electrons \n similar to the continual bombardment by photons of radiation. \n Meanwhile there are other processes, to be discussed later, \n whereby electrons are returned to the environment. The \n electron population of a material aggregate such as the earth \n therefore stabilizes at an equilibrium level.\" \n \n Note that in Larson's Theory, UNcharged electrons are \n also massLESS, and are basically photons of light of a \n particular frequency (above the \"unit\" frequency) spinning \n around one axis at a particular rate (below the \"unit\" rate). \n (\"Unit velocity\" is the speed of light, and there are \n vibrational and rotational equivalents to the speed of light, \n according to Larson's Theory.) [I might have the \"above\" and \n \"below\" labels mixed up.] \n \n Larson is saying that outer space is filled with mass-\n LESS UN-charged electrons flying around at the speed of \n light! \n \n If this is true, then the ELECTRO-MAGNETIC PROPULSION \n fields of spacecraft might be able to interact with these \n electrons, or other particles in space, perhaps GIVING them a \n charge (and mass) and shooting them toward the rear to \n achieve propulsion. (In Larson's Theory, an electrical charge \n is a one-dimensional rotational vibration of a particular \n frequency (above the \"unit\" frequency) superimposed on the \n rotation of the particle.) \n \n The paragraph quoted above might also give a clue to \n confused meteorologists about how and why lightning is \n generated in clouds. \n\n\n\n SUPPRESSION of LARSONIAN Physics\n\n The comprehensive GENERAL UNIFIED Theory of the physical \n universe developed by the late Physicist Dewey B. Larson has \n been available for more than 30 YEARS, published in 1959 in \n his first book \"THE STRUCTURE OF THE PHYSICAL UNIVERSE\". \n \n It is TOTALLY UN-SCIENTIFIC for Hawking, Wheeler, Sagan, \n and the other SACRED PRIESTS of the RELIGION they call \n \"science\" (or \"physics\", or \"astronomy\", etc.), as well as \n the \"scientific\" literature and the \"education\" systems, to \n TOTALLY IGNORE Larson's Theory has they have. \n \n Larson's Theory has excellent explanations for many \n things now puzzling orthodox physicists and astronomers, such \n as gamma-ray bursts and the nature of quasars. \n \n Larson's Theory deserves to be HONESTLY and OPENLY \n discussed in the physics, chemistry, and astronomy journals, \n in the U.S. and elsewhere. And at least the basic principles \n of Larson's Theory should be included in all related courses \n at UW-EC, UW-Madison, Cambridge, Cornell University, and \n elsewhere, so that students are not kept in the dark about a \n worthy alternative to the DOGMA they are being fed. \n \n \n\n For more information, answers to your questions, etc., \n please consult my CITED SOURCES (especially Larson's BOOKS). \n\n\n\n UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this \n IMPORTANT partial summary is ENCOURAGED. \n", "\nSigh... my version of 'rn' asked me whether I really want to send this\nposting!\n\nYou may as well know that all this stuff about the secret source of the\nClipper announcement is because of a silly mistake. I am the administrator\nof csrc.ncsl.nist.gov, alias first.org. It's a system set up to help out\nthe needs of FIRST, a Forum of Incident Response and Security Teams, which \nincludes a number of world-wide incident response teams such as CERT/CC and\nother places in Europe. As to the VRFY and EXPN commands, they are normally\ndisabled, since early on we didn't want crackers to find out the names of\nincident response folks on our mailing lists. We had a disk crash several\nmonths ago which required completely rebuilding the O/S files - same old\nstory, our backups weren't especially helpful. As you can guess, I didn't\nremember to re-disable VRFY and EXPN until I saw people on the net trying to\nfind out who was behind clipper@csrc... When I saw people's names posted\nhere, I felt it was time to clear things up. So, EXPN and VRFY on csrc have\nalways been disabled in the past for reasons having nothing to do with \nClipper.\n\nI posted the White House announcements at the request of policy folks here\nbecause csrc also provides Usenet service. I posted them from an account\ncalled 'clipper.' I also created an alias called 'clipper' that contains\nthe addresses of members of the NIST Computer Security Privacy and Advisory\nBoard, set up under law of the Computer Security Act of 1987, and addresses\nof other individuals not affiliated with NIST but involved in cryptography,\nsecurity, and privacy - I believe that these individuals were included on\nthis list because NIST felt it important to get them the Clipper information\nfirst-hand.\n\nThe 'clipper' alias is there for the benefit of those named above. It is \nnot a source for information, it was set up solely to monitor any initial\ntraffic. Individuals on the list have requested that they continue to get\ntraffic that is not already duplicated on Usenet.\n\nWhile you can rightfully say we were a bit disorganized in handling this,\nI would ask that people stop speculating about any hidden agendas or motives\nof the individuals on the 'clipper' alias - I've already apologized to them\nfor what's happened. Disabling EXPN and VRFY is an increasingly common\npractice (albeit unfriendly to some), and any effect of disabling it again\nwas unintentional.", "(References: deleted to move this to a new thread)\n\n\n\n\"To put it as simply as possible: *I am not a Muslim*.[...] I do not\n accept the charge of apostacy, because I have never in my adult life\n affirmed any belief, and what one has not affirmed one can not be\n said to have apostasized from. The Islam I know states clearly that\n 'there can be no coercion in matters of religion'. The many Muslims\n I respect would be horrified by the idea that they belong to their\n faith *purely by virtue of birth*, and that a person who freely chose\n not to be a Muslim could therefore be put to death.\"\n \t \t \t \tSalman Rushdie, \"In Good Faith\", 1990\n\n\"God, Satan, Paradise, and Hell all vanished one day in my fifteenth\n year, when I quite abruptly lost my faith. [...]and afterwards, to\n prove my new-found atheism, I bought myself a rather tasteless ham\n sandwich, and so partook for the first time of the forbidden flesh of\n the swine. No thunderbolt arrived to strike me down. [...] From that\n day to this I have thought of myself as a wholly seculat person.\"\n \t \t \t \tSalman Rushdie, \"In God We Trust\", 1985\n \n\nOnly a functional illiterate with absolutely no conception of the\nnature of the novel could think such a thing. I'll accept it\n(reluctantly) from mobs in Pakistan, but not from you. What is\npresented in the fictional dream of a demented character cannot by the\nwildest stretch of the imagination be considered a reflection on the\nactual Mohammad. What's worse, the novel doesn't present the\nMahound/Mohammed character in any worse light than secular histories\nof Islam; in particular, there is no \"lewd\" misrepresentation of his\nlife or that of his wives.\n\n\nDon't hold back; he's considered an apostate and a blasphemer.\nHowever, it's not for his writing in _The Satanic Verses_, but for\nwhat people have accepted as a propagandistic version of what is\ncontained in that book. I have yet to find *one single muslim* who\nhas convinced me that they have read the book. Some have initially\nclaimed to have done so, but none has shown more knowledge of the book\nthan a superficial Newsweek story might impart, and all have made\nfactual misstatements about events in the book.\n\n\nI'll keep an eye out for it. I have a counter-proposal: I suggest\nthat you see the Viking hardcover by Salman Rushdie called _The\nSatanic Verses_. Perhaps then you'll understand.", "From: dhammers@pacific.? (David Hammerslag)\n\n\tHow do you (Mormons) reconcile the idea of eternal marriage with \n\tChrist's statement that in the resurrection people will neither \n\tmarry nor be given in marriage (Luke, chapt. 20)?\n\nFootnotes in some bibles reference this verse to the Book of Tobit.\nTobit is in the Septuagint. Goodspeed published it in a book called \n\"The Apocrypha\". Most any bookstore will have this. At any rate, the Jews \nof Christ's day had this book. It is a story mostly centered around the\nson of Tobit who was named Tobias. There was a young lady, Sarah, who had \nentered the bridal chamber with seven brothers in succession. The brothers \nall died in the chamber before consumating the marriage.\n\nTobias was entitled to have Sarah for his wife (3:17) because Tobias was\nher only relative and \"...she was destined for [Tobias] from the beginning\"\n(6:17).\n\nTobias took her to wife and was able to consumate the marriage. The \nseven husbands would not have her as a partner in heaven. That does not \neliminate Tobias, her eighth husband. Tobit is a fun and interesting \nstory to read. It's kind of a mythical romance. It's a little shorter \nthan Esther.\n\nThe LDS also have scriptures that parallel and amplify Luke 20. Most \nnotably Doctrines and Covenants 132:15-16.\n\n\t\"Therefore, if a man marry him a wife in the world, and he marry \n\ther not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as\n\the is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage\n\tare not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of \n\tthe world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they \n\tare out of the world.\n\n\t\"Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor \n\tare given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which\n\tangels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are \n\tworthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of \n\tglory.\"\n", "\n\n\tGreg, no flame intended, but you have no discernible sense of\nhumor. What Bill wrote was intended to be funny. It's called a\n\"joke\", Greg. Look into it.\n\tBesides, Kirilian photography is actually photography of my\nfriend's two-year-old son Kiril. Perhaps you meant \"Kirlian\"?\n", "\n\n:-)\n\nI can just imagine it. The mother is wheeled into the labour ward. After\ndelivery a government agent steps up to read the baby its rights...\n\t\"You have the right to remain silent. If you give up this right anything\n\tyou say may be taken down and used in evidence against you.\"\n\n\t\"Waaaaaaaaah\"\n\n\n--\nAnthony Shipman \"You've got to be taught before it's too late,\nCP Software Export Pty Ltd, Before you are six or seven or eight,\n19 Cato St., East Hawthorn, To hate all the people your relatives hate,\nMelbourne, Australia, 3121 You've got to be carefully taught.\" R&H", " I read on the BBS a while back thats a BBS may be started for\n Gateway2000. Did a BBS start, and if it did, would you let me\n know the newsgroup name. Please send information by e-mail.\n My e-mail address is joe_west@lds.loral.com. Thanks...joe west.\n\n", "\n\nWell, here is something I wrote some time ago in response to a\nsimilar question. I hope it helps:\n\n[Begin repeat of previous post]\n\nAs for the scripture mentioned I agree that it does seem to be a \nproblem, not only for eternal marriage but marriage in general. \nLuke's version has Jesus saying that the children of this world \nmarry and are given in marriage but not those who will attain\nthe kingdom of heaven. It almost sounds like marriage disqualifies\none for salvation. (Matthew and Mark both omit this statement.) I\nthink the accounts are not as clear as they might be. Let's have a\nlook at the incident and see if we can come up with some reasonable\nideas of what it means. The scriptures involved are Mat 22:23-30,\nMark 12:18-25, and Luke 20:27-36.\n\nWhat happened was that the Sadducees, who did not believe in the\nresurrection, thought they could trap Jesus. They made reference to\nthe \"Leverite\" marriage which required the brother of a man who died\nwithout children to take the widow to wife and raise up children. \nThe children would be considered children of the deceased, just as\nthough the woman's first husband had fathered them. It seems\nobvious from this that the woman was still considered in a way to be\nthe wife of her first husband. However, the Sadducees concocted a\nscene in which 6 brothers of the deceased each in his turn failed to\nfather children by the widow. They seem to imply that the Leverite\nmarriage was equal to the first for they ask, \"Whose wife shall she\nbe in the resurrection?\" At this point it seems obvious that if she\nis anybody's wife, it is the first husband. After all, had she\nborne children they would have been credited to him regardless of\nwhich brother was the biological father. It is possible Jesus was\nrefering to this when he says, \"Ye do err, not knowing the\nscriptures or the power of God.\" (Mat 22:29, compare Mark 12:24,\nphrase not in Luke's account).\n\nAnyway, the Sadducees ask, \"Whose wife will she be in the\nresurrection, seeing that all 7 had her?\" Jesus answer is that,\n\"In the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in\nmarriage...\" (Mat 22:30) \"When they rise from the dead they neither\nmarry...\" (Mark 12:25) \"They which are accounted worthy to obtain\nthat world neither marry...\" (Luke 20:35) All 3 accounts go on to\nsay, \"but are as the angels in heaven\" or the equivalent. I find\nthis last not very helpful since the Bible does not define angels\nnor give any idea what their life is like. (Some ministers claim\nthat they are sexless, different that humans etc. but I can find no\nBiblical support for this.)", "The supersonic booms hear a few months ago over I belive San Fran, heading east\nof what I heard, some new super speed Mach 25 aircraft?? What military based\nint he direction of flight are there that could handle a Mach 25aircraft on its\nlanding decent?? Odd question??", "I'm using a QIC-compatible 250MB streamer, and I really like it.\nBut now a terrible typo in an archive description drives me mad ervery time.\nIs there any software which can rename, or even better, delete such archives?\nAny help really appreciated.\n\n\n", "SECRET PURPOSE OF FALKLANDS WAR; [with IN-VISIBILITY Technology]\n\nDr. Beter AUDIO LETTER #74 of 80\n\nDigitized by Jon Volkoff, mail address eidetics@cerf.net\n\n\"AUDIO LETTER(R)\" is a registered trademark of Audio Books,\nInc., a Texas corporation, which originally produced this tape\nrecording. Reproduced under open license granted by Audio\nBooks, Inc.\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------\n\nThis is the Dr. Beter AUDIO LETTER(R), 1629 K St. NW, Washington,\nDC 20006.\n\n Hello, my friends, this is Dr. Beter. Today is April 30,\n1982, and this is my AUDIO LETTER(R) No. 74.\n\n It's now been almost one month since war broke out in the South\nAtlantic. On the surface it seems that it's only a dispute\nbetween Argentina and Great Britain over the barren, wind-swept\nFalkland Islands and South Georgia Island. In reality, it's far\nmore than that.\n\n The so-called Falklands crisis is just the visible tip of a\ngiant military operation. During this month of April 1982,\nfierce naval battles have taken place--not only in the South\nAtlantic but also in the South Pacific. Up to now most of the\nhostilities have been kept under wraps by wartime censorship on\nall sides. But as I say these words, the naval war in the\nSouthern Hemisphere is about to come to the surface.\n\n Beginning today, April 30, a total naval and air blockade of\nthe Falklands by the Royal Navy has begun. At the same time a\ncounterblockade has been declared by Argentina in the same area.\n\n To be effective, a blockade must be imposed over a period of\ntime, but the Royal Navy does not have that much time. Winter is\ncoming on in the South Atlantic, and the British supply lines are\noverextended. Having come this far, Her Majesty's navy cannot\nsimply drop the blockade and sail away in a few weeks time\nwithout drawing blood from Argentina. As a result the British\nwill be forced to undertake military operations very soon no\nmatter how risky they may be.\n\n There is also another reason why the Royal Navy now has no\nchoice but to engage the Argentine forces in combat. That\nreason, my friends, is that the Royal Navy has already suffered\nlosses in secret combat this month. Up to this moment there will\nbe no way to explain away the damage which has been sustained by\nthe British fleet. Only when publicly admitted fighting erupts\nwill the British dare to admit that they have suffered battle\nlosses. To obtain that cover story, the British have no choice\nbut to sail into combat; but in doing so, they will be risking\neven heavier losses on top of those already sustained. In short,\nmy friends, Her Majesty's navy has sailed into a trap.\n\n The events now unfolding in the South Atlantic carry strange,\nironic echoes of the past. For weeks now we've been hearing\ncountless commentators referring to the British task force as an\n\"armada\" (quote). The British of all people ought to be very\nuneasy with that description. The original Spanish Armada 400\nyears ago was renowned as a seemingly invincible fighting force,\nbut it came to grief in a naval disaster so complete that it\nchanged the course of history--and it was none other than the\nEnglish navy that destroyed the Spanish Armada.\n\n The original Spanish Armada put to sea in 1588 during the\nreign of England's Queen Elizabeth I. The Armada was an invasion\nfleet carrying thousands of crack fighting men to invade England. \nThey were met by the daring sea dogs of Sir Francis Drake. Drake\nand his small, fast ships turned the tables on the Spanish Armada\nby changing the rules of battle. The English fleet was equipped\nwith new longer-range guns, and it stayed upwind and out of\nreach. From there the English pounded, smashed, and shattered\nthe big ships of the mighty Armada. When it was all over, barely\nhalf the Spanish fleet was left to limp back to port. Drake's\ndefeat of the Spanish Armada was a shock to the world. It opened\nthe door for England under Queen Elizabeth I to start its\nexpansion into a truly global empire.\n\n Today, 400 years later, history seems to have come full\ncircle. Queen Elizabeth II is witnessing the dismantling of the\nworld empire whose heyday began under Queen Elizabeth I, and now\nthe cultures of England and of Spain are once again in\nconfrontation. Once again a so-called armada is preparing for\ninvasion, but this time the armada is British, not Spanish. Four\nhundred years ago Sir Francis Drake was the hero of the day;\ntoday, the ghost of Francis Drake is once again on the scene.\n\n The South Atlantic war zone is at the eastern end of the Drake\nPassage around the southern tip of South America. The defeat of\nthe Spanish Armada four centuries ago broke the back of Spain's\nnaval supremacy, and now the defeat of the new British armada may\nwell break the back of what remains of the once glorious Royal\nNavy.\n\n My three special topics for this AUDIO LETTER are:\n\nTopic #1--THE MILITARY SECRET OF SOUTH GEORGIA ISLAND\nTopic #2--THE SECRET NAVAL WAR OF THE SOUTHERN HEMISPHERE\nTopic #3--THE ROCKEFELLER FEAR CAMPAIGN AGAINST NUCLEAR WAR.\n\nTopic #1--When the Falkland Islands crisis began early this month\nit looked at first like a tempest in a teapot. For a century and\na half since 1833, the Islands have been controlled by Great\nBritain. During that entire time, British sovereignty over the\nFalklands has been disputed by Argentina. There have been\ncountless threats by Argentina to seize the Islands, which it\ncalls the Malvinas, but the threats have always come to nothing\nin the past and Britain has never even gotten very worried about\nthem.\n\n The Islands are four times as distant from Argentina as Cuba\nis from the United States, and they are not much of a prize. \nAfter 150 years of occupancy, the Falklands are home to fewer\nthan 2,000 British settlers and a lot of sheep. In short, the\nremote Falkland Islands hardly look like something to fight over,\nand yet here we are watching another crisis take place. We are\nwatching as war erupts between Great Britain and Argentina.\n\n The Thatcher government is acting as if it has forgotten all\nabout its usual preoccupation with the Soviet threat at NATO's\ndoorstep. Instead, Britain is throwing almost everything it's\ngot at Argentina---aircraft carriers, cruisers, destroyers,\nsubmarines, assault ships--you name it. Luxury cruise ships have\neven been commissioned and turned into troop carriers overnight. \nWave after wave of additional assault troops have been activated\nand sent to join the fleet even after it sailed. Ships and\nsubmarines have been pulled off station from normal NATO duty and\nsent to reinforce the task force. The initial 40-ship force has\ngrown steadily over the past several weeks into an armada\nnumbering over 70. Over two-thirds of the entire Royal Navy has\nalready been deployed to the South Atlantic off Argentina.\n\n Watching all this, a lot of people are asking: What's this\nfight really all about? The most popular answer suggested in the\nmajor media is \"oil.\" Vast deposits of oil are known to exist\nunder the continental shelf between Argentina and the Falklands,\nbut that has been known for nearly 10 years. In no way does it\nexplain the timing of the sudden military offensive by Argentina\nthis month, and oil explains even less about the Argentine\nseizure of South Georgia Island.\n\n South Georgia Island is 800 miles east of the Falklands with\nno known oil deposits anywhere near it; and compared to South\nGeorgia, the Falklands are an island paradise. South Georgia\nIsland is covered with rugged mountains, treacherous valleys,\nglaciers, and semi-permanent snow. Most of it is uninhabitable. \nOn top of all that, Argentina has absolutely no legal or\nhistorical claim to South Georgia Island. In that respect it\nstands in sharp contrast to the Falklands.\n\n In the early 1830s the Falklands were occupied for a while by\nArgentine colonists. In 1833 the British expelled them and took\nover the Island. For that and other historical reasons,\nArgentina argues that the Falklands really belong to Argentina,\nnot Britain.\n\n But no such argument is possible for South Georgia Island. It\nhas always been controlled by Britain, never by Argentina or\nSpain. The Argentine seizure of South Georgia Island looks even\nmore unreasonable from a military point of view. Argentina's\nleaders are military men and they think in military terms. They\nwere well aware ahead of time that far-off South Georgia Island\ncould not possibly be held for long. By seizing it they were\nsetting themselves up to absorb a military defeat, as the Island\nwas retaken by Britain. So the question is: Why did Argentina's\nmilitary junta bother with the seemingly worthless South Georgia\nIsland at all?\n\n My friends, the answers to all these questions are military,\nnot political or economic. South Georgia Island possesses an\nenormous military secret. It's a giant underground installation\nburied under the mountains at the northwest end of the Island. \nThe real reason for the so-called Falkland crisis is this secret\ninstallation, together with two other similar installations which\nI will describe shortly.\n\n The secret military complexes have been in existence for many\nyears; they are not new. What is new is the accelerated nuclear\nwar timetable of the American Bolshevik war planners here in\nWashington. For the past two months I've been reporting the\ndetails of this new war plan to you as quickly as I can obtain\nand verify them.\n\n The plan calls for NUCLEAR WAR ONE to erupt by September of\nthis year 1982!! It is this fast-approaching nuclear war threat\nthat caused the so-called Falklands crisis to erupt now.\n\n What is going on now is a coordinated effort to spoil part of\nthe Bolshevik grand strategy for the coming nuclear war. The\nmutual enemies of the American Bolsheviks here--namely, the\nRockefeller cartel--and Russia's new rulers in the Kremlin are\nbehind the present crisis. They are trying to ruin Phase #3 of\nthe \"PROJECT Z\" war plan which I revealed last month. That phase\nis to be world domination by the American Bolsheviks after both\nRussia and the United States have been destroyed in NUCLEAR WAR\nONE. As I mentioned last month, the key to this plan is the\nexistence of secret weapons stockpiles in various places around\nthe world.\n\n The American Bolshevik military planners here in America are\nworking with other Bolshevik agents in key military positions of\nother countries to set off war. Having done that, they intend to\nride out the nuclear holocaust they have caused, safe and cozy in\nGovernment war bunkers! When the warring nations finally lie\nsmoldering and exhausted, the Bolsheviks will leave the shattered\nremains of their host countries. They will rendezvous at the\nsecret weapons installations and bring their weapons into the\nopen. They will confront the world with the only remaining\nfresh, up-to-date, powerful military force on earth; and using\nthat military power, they will become the undisputed rulers of\nthe world--that is, they plan to do all this, and they plan to\npave the way for world domination very soon by setting off\nNUCLEAR WAR ONE in a matter of months. The Rockefeller cartel\nand Russia's new anti-Bolshevik rulers are working together in a\nrace against time to try to head off the Bolshevik war plan.\n\n Last month I mentioned that the Bolsheviks here are\nbenefitting from war preparations which were started by the\nRockefellers long ago. It has only been about three years since\nthe Rockefellers were dislodged as the prime movers of the United\nStates Government by the Bolsheviks. Since that time the United\nStates Government has been a house divided, torn by internal\npower struggles between rival Bolshevik and Rockefeller factions. \nBut before that, the United States had been dominated for decades\nboth economically and politically by the Four Rockefeller\nBrothers.\n\n In 1961 the Brothers launched a new long-range plan for world\ndomination. It was a two-prong strategy, half visible and half\nsecret, which I first described long ago in AUDIO LETTER No. 28. \nIt was a plan for the United States to arm to the teeth in secret\nwhile appearing to disarm gradually. Without repeating all the\ndetails, the basic idea was grandiose yet simple. By\ndeliberately appearing weak, the Rockefeller-controlled United\nStates would maneuver itself into a nuclear war with Russia. \nThen the secret weapons, including superweapons, would be\nunleashed to smash Russia and take over the world.\n\n When they set the grand plan in motion in 1961, the\nRockefeller Brothers were looking ahead to a nuclear war by the\nlate 1970s. Their military analysts concluded very early that\nthe war being planned would have very different effects on the\nNorthern and Southern Hemispheres. Both superpowers, the United\nStates and the Soviet Union, are located well up in the Northern\nHemisphere; so are the other full-fledged nuclear powers--Great\nBritain, France, Red China, and India. By contrast, the\nstrategic targets for nuclear war in the Southern Hemisphere are\nrelatively few and far between. In other words, it was expected\nthat the coming nuclear war would be essentially a Northern\nHemisphere war.\n\n In an all-out nuclear holocaust it is known that serious\nradioactive fallout will gradually spread to affect even areas\nnot initially hit by war. But there are limits to how far the\nwar clouds can spread. It was discovered long ago that there is\nvery little mixing between the air of the Northern and Southern\nHemispheres. In the northern half of our planet, cold air from\nthe North Pole works its way southward towards the equator, then\nit works its way back to the north as warm air. A mirror image\nof this process takes up the southern half of the planet. \nNorthern and Southern Hemisphere air meet in the equatorial zone,\nbut very little of the air changes places.\n\n The military conclusion, my friends, is this: the coming\nnuclear war could ruin large areas of the Northern Hemisphere for\ngenerations to come; but if the calculations are right, the\nSouthern Hemisphere could escape virtually unaffected by the war. \nThis was music to the ears of the Four Rockefeller Brothers. A\nquick look at the globe of the world shows why. The Rockefeller\ncartel has dominated Latin America ever since World War II. As I\ndiscussed in my very first monthly AUDIO LETTER, Nelson\nRockefeller solidified the cartel grip on Latin America during\nthe war. He accomplished this as so-called \"Coordinator of\nHemispheric Defense\" for then-President Franklin D. Roosevelt. \nSo that takes care of the South American continent and its\nnatural resources.\n\n Then there is the African continent. There, too, Rockefeller\ncontrol was already in effect over wide areas of Black Africa,\nespecially south of the equator. All this was thanks to the\nefforts of John D. Rockefeller III, as I detailed in AUDIO LETTER\nNo. 36.\n\n Looking around the globe, the most important remaining land\nmasses from the standpoint of world domination are Australia and\nNew Zealand. Thanks to World War II, both were wide open to the\nRockefellers.\n\n The Rockefeller Brothers decided to establish secret military\ninstallations in the Southern Hemisphere for use after the coming\nwar. By this means they expected to become the masters of the\nsurviving southern half of planet Earth after the Northern\nHemisphere war. Then, as the Northern Hemisphere gradually\nrecovered from the nuclear holocaust, the Rockefeller empire\nwould be able to pick up the pieces. In this way the third\ngeneration Rockefeller Brothers expected their family dynasty to\ninherit the Earth.\n\n In order to control the Southern Hemisphere militarily after\nthe war, some means would have to be available to project\nmilitary power onto any land mass. For example, revolts against\nRockefeller domination would require troops--not a blast from the\nbeam weapons on the Moon. The most critical factor for postwar\nmilitary domination of the world was found to be a navy. A\nminimum of two secret naval fleets would be required--one based\nin the South Atlantic, the other in the South Pacific. Since the\nreserve naval fleets were to be kept secret until after the\nNorthern Hemisphere nuclear war, they could not be built in\nexisting shipyards. New construction facilities had to be built\nand they had to be hidden. To hide an entire shipyard is no\nsmall task; they take up a lot of space. On top of that, it was\nessential that the ships remain hidden after they were built. \nThe best way to achieve that was to combine the shipyard and\nnaval base into one over-all secret installation. Finally, the\nsecret naval installation had to be invulnerable to nuclear\nattack; otherwise if its existence were ever discovered\nprematurely, the secret navy might be wiped out.\n\n The combined requirements for secrecy, space, and protection\nagainst attack were formidable; but one day in 1959, while all\nthese plans were still in the early stages of development, the\nanswer presented itself. During a so-called banking trip to\nSweden, David Rockefeller was given a tour of a unique hidden\nnaval port. The port is hollowed out from solid granite cliffs\nwhich come right down to the water. The entrance to the port is\na gigantic hole in the side of the cliff which can be sealed off\nwith enormous steel doors. Inside this big doorway on the water\na huge cavity has been hollowed out to accommodate ships.\n\n The Rockefeller Brothers and their military adviser decided\nthat a bigger, more secret, better protected version of the\nSwedish hidden port was just what they wanted. A survey of\ncandidate sites was then initiated. The site survey covered\ncoastal areas throughout the Southern Hemisphere. Many areas\nwere rejected very quickly because the topography was wrong. \nOther areas were rejected because they were too close to the\nequator. Still others had to be ruled out because there were too\nmany people living nearby, making the desired level of secrecy\nimpossible. Finally, it was essential that the sites chosen for\nthe secret naval installations be totally secure politically.\n\n At last the sites for the secret naval installations were\nselected. In the South Pacific, extreme southern New Zealand was\nselected. This is what I was alluding to in AUDIO LETTER No. 71\nthree months ago when I called attention to New Zealand's extreme\nimportance in the coming war.\n\n In order to obtain the necessary space, the secret New Zealand\nnaval installation had to be divided up into two sites located\nclose together. One is at the extreme southwest tip of South\nIsland where the mountain range known as the Southern Alps comes\ndown virtually to the water's edge. The other part of the\ninstallation is built into the northwest tip of Stewart Island,\nwhich is off the tip of South Island. The Stewart Island\nfacility is hollowed out within a rise known as Mt. Anglem.\n\n The New Zealand location met all the requirements. Ever since\nWorld War II the government of New Zealand has been tied even\ncloser to the United States than to Great Britain. The location\nis far from the equator, and the installations are buried deep\nunder mountains, protected from nuclear attack. They are also\ntoo deep to be reached by particle-beam attacks, and the New\nZealand site is well situated to command the entire South\nPacific.\n\n In the South Atlantic an even more perfect site was found. \nThat site, my friends, is South Georgia Island. It is located\nperfectly for naval domination of the entire South Atlantic. The\ntall, rugged mountains provided a perfect location for the secret\ninstallation at the northwest tip of the 100-mile long island. \nIt is controlled by Great Britain whose government, like that of\nNew Zealand, was willing to cooperate; and South Georgia Island\nwas virtually uninhabited except for a whaling station on the\nnortheast coast. The whaling station was some 50 miles away from\nthe secret new installation which was being built, but Britain\ntook no chances. In 1965 the whaling station was closed down. \nSince that time there have been no inhabitants on South Georgia\nIsland except for a few dozen alleged Antarctic scientists.\n\n Construction of the secret naval facilities--two in New\nZealand, one on South Georgia Island--began in the early 1960's. \nThe techniques were adapted from those used previously to build\nother large underground facilities, such as the NORAD\ninstallation inside Cheyenne Mountain, Colorado; however these\ntechniques were adapted in radically new ways to achieve\nconstruction access directly from the sea instead of overland. \nIn this way, the sheltering mountain was left undisturbed in\nappearance both during and after construction.\n\n The cuts in the mountain side which were necessary to let\nships in and out were kept as small as possible and were well\ncamouflaged. Like the Swedish hidden naval port arrangement, the\nentrances to the secret installations can be sealed up. When\nsealed, the entrance is virtually impossible to detect unless you\nknow exactly where it is; and unlike most large construction\nprojects, there are no tailings or piles of leftover rock lying\naround to attract attention. The man-made caverns which house\nthe secret naval installations are enormous, but all the rock and\ndebris was disposed of at sea.\n\n Once the secret naval facilities were built, they had to be\noutfitted for ship construction and docksite storage. The fake\ndisarmament of the United States during the 1960s contributed\ngreatly to this task. From 1961 to 1968 one man played a pivotal\nrole in this elaborate Rockefeller scheme. He was then-Secretary\nof Defense Robert McNamara. All through the 60's McNamara\npresided over the public paring back of America's visible\nmilitary power. This included the closing down and dismantling\nof entire shipyards. What we were not told was where all that\nshipyard equipment went afterwards. Where it went, my friends,\nwas to the new secret installations which were being outfitted in\nNew Zealand and South Georgia Island!\n\n The secret naval installations have been used as duplication\nfacilities to reproduce certain ships and submarines designed and\nbuilt here in the United States. As Defense Secretary Caspar\nWeinberger told Congress recently, it is cheaper to build two\nships at a time. That is especially true if the second ship is\nan exact duplicate of the first. This has become even more true\nin recent years through the use of computerized manufacturing\ntechniques.\n\n The secret naval fleets which have been built at the secret\ninstallations are made up of duplicates--exact duplicates of\ncertain other ships and submarines. They are all nuclear\npowered--nuclear \"subs\"; nuclear cruisers; nuclear destroyers;\nand yes, nuclear aircraft carriers, three of them. A secret twin\nwas built for the U.S.S. Nimitz, for the U.S.S. Eisenhower, and\nfor the newly-launched U.S.S. Carl Vincent. All have been\nfinanced through the gigantic cost overruns, so called, that we\nconstantly hear about in the Defense Department; and all three\ncarriers have been provided with a full complement of aircraft\nwhose manufacture was financed the same way!\n\n The ships of the secret American Bolshevik naval fleets are\nall duplicates of other nuclear-powered vessels. Even so, the\nsecret naval ships possess one key difference.\n\n Last month I revealed that the so-called \"Stealth Program\" has\nsucceeded in developing a kind of electromagnetic invisibility\nshield. This technique makes an object invisible from a distance\nby distorting light waves in its vicinity.\n\n A whole new fleet of Phantom war-planes are now going into\ncrash production that use this principle; and, my friends, all of\nthe secret American Bolshevik navy ships have already been\noutfitted with similar Stealth-field equipment! The Stealth\nprinciple is actually easier to apply to ships than to airplanes\nbecause there is more room for the powerful equipment that\ngenerates the field.\n\n After NUCLEAR WAR ONE, the secret Stealth navy of the American\nBolsheviks would be light years ahead of any other navy left on\nearth. It would be perfect for the intended role of world\ndomination. The Rockefellers set it all in motion long ago, my\nfriends, but three years ago they lost control of the United\nStates Military. Now it's the American Bolsheviks who are in\ncontrol, and they are bent on war.\n\n These secret naval installations have precipitated what is\nbeing called the \"Falklands crisis.\"\n\nTopic #2--In AUDIO LETTER(R) No. 73 last month I described\n\"PROJECT Z\", the new Bolshevik three-phase strategy for NUCLEAR\nWAR ONE.\n\n An elite group of American Bolshevik military planners here\nare flushing out the plan right now at a secret war-room here in\nWashington. It's a plan by which the United States will strike\nthe first nuclear blow, followed by all-out thermonuclear war\nwith Russia.\n\n Having set off the holocaust, the Bolsheviks here and in\ncertain other countries plan to rise it out safe in comfortable\nwar bunkers. Finally after NUCLEAR WAR ONE fizzles out in\nstalemate, they plan to leave behind the ashes of the United\nStates and her allies. Activating Phase #3 of their grand\nstrategy, they plan to unveil their secret weapons, especially\ntheir secret naval fleets. With these they plan to conquer and\nrule what is left of the world. The United States as we know it\nwill be dead and gone; but in the eyes of the Bolsheviks\nthemselves, this outcome will constitute victory.\n\n Up to now the nuclear war timetable which I first revealed two\nmonths ago is still on track. They are still shooting for\nnuclear war to begin by September of this year 1982! Time is\nfast running out.\n\n The Bolsheviks here are sprinting as fast as they can toward\nwar; but, my friends, the Bolsheviks are not the only runners in\nthis race. They have two deadly enemies, both of whom are\nequally determined to trip up the Bolsheviks. One enemy of the\nBolsheviks here is the Rockefeller cartel; the other enemy is the\nnew anti-Bolshevik ruling clique in Russia; and now these two\nmutual enemies of the Bolsheviks are pooling their efforts in\ncertain ways.\n\n In AUDIO LETTER No. 71 three months ago I reported that a\nlimited, new anti-Bolshevik coalition was in the works between\nthe Rockefeller cartel and the Russians. The January 26 meeting\nbetween Haig and Gromyko in Geneva, Switzerland, was a turning\npoint in the formation of this coalition. It is now a reality,\nand is responsible for the so-called \"Falkland crisis\" now\ndominating the headlines. It should be emphasized that this new\nrelationship between the Rockefeller cartel and Russia falls far\nshort of a true alliance. They have very major disputes to be\nsettled between them, but for the time being they have called a\ntruce between themselves to deal with their mutual deadly\nenemy--the Bolsheviks here in America.\n\n The first priority of the Russians and the Rockefellers is to\nslow down the Bolshevik preparations for imminent nuclear war. \nIf they can do that, time is on the side of the Rockefeller\ncartel in certain political movements which I discussed last\nsummer in AUDIO LETTER No. 67. A slow-down in the nuclear war\ntimetable will also give more breathing space for additional\nanti-Bolshevik actions to be implemented.\n\n The joint Rockefeller-Russian planners decided by mid-February\nthat military action against the Bolsheviks was essential very\nquickly. No other type of action had any hope of taking effect\nfast enough to prevent nuclear war by the end of this summer.\n\n The exact details of the \"PROJECT Z\" war plan are not known to\neither the Rockefellers or the Russians, but the general outlines\nare known to be as I described last month.\n\n It was decided that military action should be devised that\nwould undermine Phase #3 of the Bolshevik war plan--that is, the\nBolshevik-controlled secret naval installations and fleets in the\nSouthern Hemisphere should be attacked and crippled. By working\ntogether, the Rockefeller cartel and the Russians were able to\ndevise an attack plan which neither could have carried out alone. \nThe Rockefeller group, who built and originally controlled these\nbases, provided detailed Intelligence about the best way to\nattack them. The Russians with their enormous military machine\nprovided the muscle to actually carry out the attack.\n\n It was essential to devise a scheme that would enable both\nsecret fleets in the South Atlantic and South Pacific to be\nattacked. Survival intact of either fleet would leave the\nBolshevik war plan still workable.\n\n Military analysts concluded very quickly that a direct assault\non the New Zealand facilities was out of the question. There was\nno combination of commandos, frogmen, or other military force\nwhich could possibly keep an attack secret from the outside\nworld. Any attack on the New Zealand bases would set off the\nvery war which the Rockefellers and Russians want to prevent.\n\n But the situation in the South Atlantic was a different\nmatter. In a way, the greatest asset of South Georgia Island was\nalso its Achilles' heel. The extreme isolation which protected\nthe secrecy of the South Georgia base also made a covert military\nassault feasible. The key lay with Argentina and her\nlong-standing claims to the Falkland Islands.\n\n As I mentioned in Topic #1, the Rockefeller cartel has\ndominated all of Latin America for decades. Cartel operatives\nwere sent to Argentina to work out a deal with the government\nmilitary junta there. The historic dispute over the Falkland\nIslands was to be used to provide a ruse, a military cover, to\nenable the South Georgia base to be attacked. The Argentine\ngenerals were not told everything about the situation by any\nmeans, but they were told enough to make clear what they were to\ndo.\n\n As an inducement to cooperate, the Argentine leaders were\npromised handsome rewards. They were guaranteed that after the\nshooting was over, the Falkland Islands would remain in Argentine\nhands. This guarantee included the promise of covert military\nassistance as needed against the Royal Navy. And to bolster the\ntroubled Argentine economy, it was promised that the Rockefeller\ncartel will help develop the immense offshore oil reserves. With\nthese combined promises of military glory and financial rewards,\nthe Argentine military junta agreed to the plan.\n\n On March 19 Argentina carried out Act #1 in the joint attack\nplan. A group of Argentine scrap-metal merchants, of all things,\nlanded at the abandoned old whaling station on South Georgia\nIsland. Supposedly they were there to dismantle the old\nbuildings and cart them off to sell. While they were at it they\nalso raised the Argentine flag over the work-site. The British,\nalways nervous about South Georgia Island, promptly reacted as\nexpected. The British Antarctic survey ship \"Endurance\" put 22\nMarines ashore. They drove off the scrap merchants and tore down\nthe Argentine flag.\n\n The incident provided the desired excuse for the Argentine\nJunta to bring the simmering 150-year-old Falklands dispute to a\nboil. From time to time in the past, Argentina has claimed that\nSouth Georgia is part of the Falklands because it is administered\nthat way by Britain. That argument is very flimsy but it now\ncame in very handy. It was nothing new to hear this from\nArgentine leaders, so there was no hint of what was really afoot.\n\n During late March, Argentine military forces started\nassembling for an assault on the Falklands. \"Nothing new\",\nthought the British high command. Argentina has carried out\nthreatening maneuvers in the past many times. It was believed\nthat they were about to do it again; but on April 2 Argentine\nforces did the unexpected. After many past false alarms, this\ntime they actually invaded and seized the Islands. All Argentine\npublic statements emphasized the long-standing historical claims\nto the Falklands themselves; but just for good measure, the next\nday a small Argentine force also seized far-off South Georgia\nIsland. The force was so small that it gave the appearance\ninitially that it was just a side show from Argentina's point of\nview; however, the small contingent of 22 Royal Marines were\noverpowered and bundled off the Island along with a group of 13\nalleged scientists. That was the moment of payoff in the joint\nRockefeller-Russian attack plan.\n\n Thanks to the elaborate distraction staged by the Argentine\nforces, a special commando team got onto the Island undetected. \nBased on the detailed Rockefeller information about the base, the\nteam moved to a location on the mountain directly above the\ncavernous secret base. Special high-speed drilling equipment was\nset up by the Rockefeller members of the team while the Russian\nmembers concentrated on military defense. By late that evening,\nApril 3, the military high command in London finally learned what\nwas really taking place. The secret South Georgia base was under\nattack by virtually the only means possible. The joint\nRockefeller-Russian team were drilling a shaft down through the\nmountain toward the hollowed out cavern inside. It was only a\nmatter of time until their drill would break through the ceiling\nof the giant hidden naval base. Once the hole was made, the next\nstep was obvious. The Rockefeller-Russian team would put a\nweapon of some kind through the hole. The best guess was that it\nwould be a nerve gas.\n\n The shock waves that went through the highest levels of the\nBritish government on the evening of April 3 can hardly be\ndescribed, my friends. The Thatcher government, like the\nso-called Reagan Administration here in America, is Bolshevik\ncontrolled. That's why Margaret Thatcher always says, \"Me, too\"\nany time the Reagan Administration says or does anything against\nRussia. Both governments are party to the secret nuclear war\nplan in complete betrayal of the people of their respective\ncountries, and on the evening of April 3 they suddenly discovered\nthat their precious war plan was in deep, deep trouble.\n\n Immediately the Thatcher government started assembling a naval\narmada to sail for the South Atlantic. Haste was the order of\nthe day. The drilling on South Georgia Island was proceeding\naround the clock. The best estimates were that the drilling\nwould break through into the roof of the naval base in about\nthree weeks, on or about April 24. If help did not reach South\nGeorgia by then, the secret installation might be doomed. The\nforces stationed at the installation itself were unable to defend\nthemselves under the circumstances. Their mighty naval ships\nwere ships in a bottle. They did not dare open the bottle to\nsail out to fight because the Russian commandos were armed with\ntactical and nuclear weapons. To open the blast-proof entrance\ndoors would be suicide.\n\n On April 5, just two days after South Georgia Island was\nseized, some 40 naval ships began moving out of British ports. \nThe same day Lord Carrington was sacked as Foreign Minister. He\nwas forced to resign, my friends, because he had assisted the\nRockefeller attack plan by downplaying the Argentine attack\npreparations.\n\n That same day, April 5, New Zealand, the home of the other\nsecret naval fleet, broke diplomatic relations with Argentina. \nThe two hidden New Zealand facilities had been placed on \"Red\nAlert.\" As a precautionary measure, all submarines at the twin\nbase were ordered to sea. Several surface ships were already at\nsea undergoing \"sea trials\", but that still left seven (7) major\nships inside the hidden twin naval base including one of the\nnuclear aircraft carriers I mentioned earlier.\n\n On that busy day of April 5, Argentina's Foreign Minister,\nCosta Mendez, was at the United Nations in New York. He was\nalarmed by the deployment of such a large part of the Royal Navy. \nCosta Mendez hurried here to Washington to seek reassurances from\ncertain officials. He got them!\n\n For the next two weeks or so the news was filled with stories\nabout the allegedly slow movement of the British fleet while\nnegotiations went on. That, my friends, was only a cover story. \nThe Royal Navy was actually joining up and moving as rapidly as\npossible toward South Georgia Island. If the task force arrived\nin time to save the secret base, a major battle was likely. The\nofficial stories about \"slow movement\" of the British armada were\nintended to give a cushion of time for that battle. If need be,\nthe fleet would have several days to retake South Georgia Island,\nthen it could move on to arrive near the Falklands on the\nannounced schedule. In this way the crucial importance of South\nGeorgia Island would be hidden and the big secret preserved.\n\n It was initially expected that advance elements of the British\nfleet would reach the vicinity of South Georgia Island within two\nweeks. That would have been soon enough to attack the joint\nRockefeller-Russian commando team and stop the drilling before it\nwas completed. But Russian Cosmospheres and submarines made a\nshambles of the plan.\n\n Key advance elements of the South Georgia attack contingent\nleft Ascension Island early April 14, two days before it was\nannounced officially. Shortly after they did so, they ran into\ntrouble. Russian Cosmospheres and attack submarines closed in on\na single ship which was critical to the planned counterassault on\nSouth Georgia Island. The Cosmospheres bombarded the bridge and\ncombat information center of the ship with neutron radiation. In\nmoments the ship was without any command, its communications and\nradar silenced. Then a Russian \"sub\" closed in and quickly\nfinished off this key British ship with torpedoes. It broke\napart with secondary explosions and sank rapidly. So far as is\nknown, there were no survivors.\n\n This unexpected shock in the mid-Atlantic produced two\nresults, both important:\n\nFirst, it caused a slowdown in the race toward the South Atlantic\nby the British armada. The task force had to be regrouped into a\nconfiguration better suited for an enroute defense, but that cost\nvaluable time. Public announcements from London about the\nprogress of the fleet reflected this slowdown. The timetable for\narrival on battle stations near the Falklands started stretching\nout longer and longer. All this bought extra time for the joint\ncommando team on South Georgia Island. The drilling continued.\n\nThe other result of the sinking was equally important. Word was\nflashed to the South Pacific Stealth navy to prepare for possible\naction. It was obvious that the Russian Navy was getting\ninvolved in the Atlantic, which meant that the Royal Navy could\nbe in big trouble. During the dead of night, early April 15, the\nseven Stealth ships put to sea from their twin secret bases in\nsouthern New Zealand. They deployed to a secret operational\nheadquarters area in the Antipodes Islands, 450 miles southeast\nof New Zealand. Their electromagnetic shields were operating to\nprovide protection from attack. These shields make it impossible\nto communicate with the outside world or even to see it, as I\nexplained last month; but once they arrived at the Antipodes, the\nStealth ships hooked up to buoys equipped with shielded\ncommunication cables to the Island headquarters. The Antipodes\nheadquarters, in turn, was in constant touch with the South\nGeorgia base by way of a transoceanic cable around the tip of\nSouth America. The deployment of the available ships of the\nSouth Pacific Stealth fleet was exactly what the joint\nRockefeller-Russian planners had hoped for. The ships had been\nflushed out from their essentially invulnerable hiding place in\nNew Zealand!\n\n The British ship's sinking of April 14 was also followed by\nother events. On April 15 the Argentine Navy started moving out\nof port. The same day, Alexander Haig arrived again in Buenos\nAires. Supposedly he was there as a diplomat, but in reality he\nwas there as a General, dealing with Generals. Haig is the top\nGovernmental operative of the Rockefeller cartel, as I have\nrevealed in the past. He was making sure that the Argentines did\nnot get cold feet and back down at that critical moment. Four\ndays later, April 19, Haig left for Washington. As he boarded\nhis plane, Haig somberly told reporters, \"Time is running out.\" \nAnd so it was, my friends, for the secret South Georgia base.\n\n The very next day, April 20, the drill broke through into the\nhollowed-out cavern of the naval base. Bolshevik military\nanalysts in London had not expected that it could be completed\nuntil at least the following weekend. The British fleet was\nstill out of range.\n\n The weapon which the commando team inserted down through the\nlong hole was a small, compact Russian neutron bomb. When it was\ndetonated inside the confines of the huge artificial cave, the\neffects were devastating. The intense radiation instantly killed\neveryone inside the base. Also the heat and blast effects of the\nbomb are believed to have damaged all the ships inside\nsufficiently to badly disable them.\n\n Meanwhile, Russian Cosmospheres and submarines were converging\non the Stealth ships which were near the Antipodes Islands\nawaiting orders. From a distance, the ships were invisible to\nthe eye due to their protective shields, which also protect\nagainst beam-weapon attack; but they were sitting ducks for the\ntactics which the Russians employed.\n\n Floating overhead, the Cosmospheres located the seven ships\nusing their Psychoenergetic Range-Finding equipment known as PRF. \nAs I have reported in the past, there is no method known by which\nPRF can be jammed. The Cosmospheres radioed the exact locations\nof the ships to the attack submarines. The \"subs\" were armed\nwith special non-homing, non-nuclear torpedoes designed to\nexplode on impact. More sophisticated torpedoes would have been\nthrown off course or detonated prematurely by the protective\nshield of each ship; but these simple torpedoes just cruise right\nthrough each invisibility field to strike the ship and explode. \nWithin 15 minutes after the attack began, all seven Bolshevik\nStealth ships were on their way to the bottom, and with them went\ntheir Bolshevik Commanders and mercenary crews collected from\naround the world.\n\n The South Pacific action took place just after sunset local\ntime. The time here in Washington was around 2:00 P.M. April 23. \nThat evening Secretary of State Haig was seen briefly in public\nwith the new British Foreign Minister, Francis Pym. Pym was\nwearing the artificial pseudo-smile which diplomats are taught\nalways to display in public. But not Haig. Haig was grinning\nfrom ear to ear, and no wonder. The joint Rockefeller-Russian\nmilitary operation had been a brilliant success. The secret\nBolshevik South Atlantic fleet had been virtually wiped out,\nbottled up inside South Georgia Island; and the South Pacific\nfleet, while not totally wiped out, had been badly crippled. By\nworking together, the Rockefeller cartel and the Russians had won\nthe secret naval war of the Southern Hemisphere.\n\nTopic #3--As I say these words, news reports give the impression\nthat war is about to erupt in the South Atlantic, but the real\nwar in the Southern Hemisphere is already over. What we are\nwatching now is the beginning of its bloody aftermath. That\naftermath is the battle for the Falkland Islands. They have been\npromised to Argentina as a reward for her role in the secret war.\n\n At this moment the Bolsheviks here in Washington are pressing\nfor a public announcement that the United States will side with\nBritain. As soon as that takes place, military action will heat\nup fast around the Falklands. Britain has no choice but to\nfight. She has already suffered casualties which cannot be\nexplained without a public battle; but by fighting, the\nBolsheviks in Britain are running the risk of a humiliating and\ntragic defeat for the Royal Navy.\n\n Meanwhile, the Rockefeller strategists here are now\nconcentrating on a fast-building, anti-nuclear-war campaign. On\nall sides now we are hearing about the so-called \"nuclear freeze\nmovement.\" There are documentaries, articles, publicity of all\nkinds to sensitize us to the terrors of nuclear war. In recent\nmonths, there have even been referenda popping up on election\nballots dealing with the nuclear war issue. Medical doctors are\nbanding together to warn the public about what would happen if\nthere were a nuclear war.\n\n We are being told that all this is just popping up\nspontaneously. We are now 37 years into the nuclear age and\nnothing like this has ever gained so much momentum before, yet\nnow we are supposed to believe that millions of Americans have\nspontaneously gotten the same ideas at the same time. If you\nbelieve that, my friends, I give up. Movements like this never,\nand I mean never, develop without leadership, organization, and\nmoney--and plenty of it.\n\n What we are watching is the Rockefeller public relations\nmachine at work. As I've explained in the past, the Rockefeller\ncartel cannot afford to let a nuclear war take place. If it\ndoes, they will lose everything because they are not in a\nposition to control it. Instead, the deadly enemies of the\nRockefeller cartel, the Bolsheviks here, will win out if there is\na war; and so the Rockefeller faction is now doing everything in\nits power to prevent a nuclear war.\n\n The present anti-nuclear-war orientation of the Rockefeller\ncartel creates certain temporary common interests between them\nand Russia; but as Russia's new rulers know very well, this does\nnot spring from any great moral perspective on the part of the\nRockefeller group. It's purely a matter of practical necessity\nright now for the Rockefellers.\n\n The Russians regard the United States as a house divided, and\nthey are exploiting that division by working in careful ways with\nthe Rockefellers. Their first priority is to rid the world of\nthe deadly Bolshevik menace of all-out, even suicidal, nuclear\nwar; but once that is done, they know that there will be a day of\nreckoning with the Rockefeller cartel some day.\n\n The Rockefeller group is working toward a definite objective\nwith their new anti-nuclear-war propaganda. That objective is\nrenewed power--and power that moves them closer to their old\ndream of WORLD GOVERNMENT. The Bolsheviks here have unwittingly\nprovided fertile ground for the powerful new Rockefeller antiwar\ncampaign. Under Bolshevik control, the so-called Reagan\nAdministration has become so hawkish that it's scaring people. \nThe Rockefeller antiwar campaign is designed to capitalize on\nthat latent fear as a tool of power.\n\n These days the smell of war is in the air. The Falklands\ncrisis is helping to make that more intense. The Rockefeller\npropaganda machine is now paving the way for the argument that\nsurrender of sovereignty is the only way to avoid war. A new\nsuper-United Nations of sorts is now in the works to fill the\nbill. It will have teeth! As presently envisioned, the new\norganization will be based in Geneva, Switzerland. The working\nname, though this may be changed, is the \"World Nonproliferation\nCouncil.\" The plan is to bring it into being as the outgrowth of\nnuclear nonproliferation treaties, but its true purpose will be\nto use fear--the fear of war--to control us all.\n\n LAST MINUTE SUMMARY\n\n Now it's time for my Last Minute Summary. In this AUDIO\nLETTER I have reported on the reasons behind the so-called\nFalkland Islands crisis. The crisis erupted because of secret\nBolshevik-controlled naval installations in the Southern\nHemisphere. These have been attacked by joint action of the\nRockefeller cartel and the Russians in an attempt to slow down\nthe nuclear-war timetable. The attacks were successful, but the\nresults remain to be seen. One result, though, is that the Royal\nNavy has now been drawn into a trap. Britain's Waterloo at sea\nmay well be at hand.\n\n My friends, two factions are struggling for control over our\nUnited States--the Rockefeller cartel and the Bolsheviks. They\ndiffer in style but both seek to control us through fear. If we\nare ever to rise above their trickery, it must be through the\npower of our Lord Jesus Christ, our only hope. As the Scripture\ntells us, our Lord \"...has not given us the spirit of fear; but\nof power, of love, and of a sound mind.\" We must learn to wage\npeace. As our Lord declared long ago, \"Blessed are the\npeacemakers: for they shall be called sons of God.\"", "\n STILL, the Angel Gabriel's greetings was:\n \"Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you.\n Blessed art thou amongst women\".\n\n Even Mary was confused about this greeting.", "I have recently graduated and am looking to move into a bigger house,\nleaving me with a condo to sell... It was originally listed at\n59,000, but is now listed at $54,900. The following is a list of\nfeatures.\n\nMaster Bedroom \t14x11\nBedroom\t\t11x10\nLiving Room\t16x13\nDining Room\t10x9\nKitchen\t\t9x11 w/ extra cabinets\n1 Full / Modern Bathroom\nFull wtw carpeting /new/ excluding bath, Oil hot water heating\n/converting to gas this summer/, central air, condo fee $183/mo\nINCLUDING heat; hot water; landscaping; pool; tennis courts. \n\nIn addition: washer, dryer /both in condo/, refrigerator, dishwasher,\n2 ceiling fans, all window treatments /I don't understand why I can't\ncall them curtains.../, and a mantle!\n\nLarge storage room in private basement, plenty of undesignated\nparking.\n\nIf you'd like to free me for the bliss of regular homeownership,\nplease call Kathleen Sullivan at the Rohrer&Sayers Real Estate Agency:\n609-546-0004. She'll arrange for a showing off.\n\nNow for that disclaimer caca: Subject to errors, changes, ommissions,\nwithdrawls, and sales without notice.\n\nThis posting is not to benefit or at the request of any commercial\nagency. I simply want out. Flames can be sent to /dev/null", "Biblical basis for the Immaculate Conception:\n\n1) \"I will put enmity between you [the Serpent] and the woman, and\nbetween your seed and her seed, she [can also be read he] shall crush\nyour head and you shall bruise her [or his] heel.\"\n -Genesis 3.15\n\n2) \"He who commits sin is of the devil ...\"\n -1 John 3.8\n\n3) \"Hail, full of grace [greek - kecharitomene], the Lord is with thee ...\"\n -Luke 1.28\n\n From the above, we prove the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception.\n First, God has given the proto-evangel in Genesis 3.15, which is the\nfirst promise of a savior, who will redeem mankind from the wiles of\nSatan. \"[Satan] was a murderer from the beginning, and has not stood in\nthe truth because there is no truth in him.\" John 8.44. Now the\nproto-evangel promises several things, enmity between Satan and \"the\nwoman\", and enmity between Satan and \"her seed.\" Now the woman is both\nEve (who is the immediate point of reference) and Mary, the second Eve. \n\"Her seed\" is Jesus Christ, and He is also at enmity with Satan in the\nsame way as Mary is said to be at enmity with Satan. Thus, knowing as\nwe do that Jesus Christ is sinless (Hebrews 7.26), we can conclude that\nMary is also sinless because if she wasn't she would 1) not be at enmity\nwith the devil, as 1 John 3.8 tells us, and 2) the relation of her\nsinlessness to Christ's sinlessness would be called into question, as\nwould God's veracity. For God promised an enmity between Mary and the\nserpent, and it is not possible for God to lie or be decieved.\n Second, we have the Angelic Greeting where Mary is called by the\nArchangle Gabriel \"full of grace.\" As I pointed out above this is from\nthe Greek word \"Kecharitomene\" which means not just full of grace, but a\nplenitude or perfection of grace. The sense of it is best grasped by\nthe footnote to the Jerusalem Bible, \"Hail you who have been and reamin\nfilled with grace.\" But that is a little to long to say, so it is\nreduced to full of grace. And as it says, \"you who have been\" Mary had\nalways been filled with grace, from the moment of her conception, which\nwas also the moment of her salvation, until her death some years later.\n It must be admitted that it is possible that God could have done\nwhat the doctrine of the Immaclute Conception says He did do. And if\nGod could keep himself free from any contact with sin, through his\nMother, He would have, and the Bible records this fact, to which the\nFathers of the Church such as St. John Damascus, St. Augustine of Hippo\n, St. Ambrose and others are in complete agreement with, as is all of\nChristian tradition, and as is the infallible declaration of the Pope on\nthe matter in \"Ineffibilus Deus.\"", "\n\nIt would be funny if it wasn't so damn *NASTY*; and as non-xian as I am, \nit's hard to believe that someone is pushing black is white and freedom\nis slavery so blatantly.", "B(>i am interested in getting the pulse of this group regarding\nB(>extended operation of my G2K 486-33V with the cover removed\nB(>from the enclosure. there are a # of reasons i am considering\nB(>this, including quick access to jumpers during complex i/o card\nB(>setups.\n\nB(>my concern is that without a complete enclosure to direct the\nB(>cooling flow of air from the fan, \"hot spots\" may develop on my\nB(>motherboard or elsewhere.\n\nIf you have an adequate supply of air moving over the system (most\noffices or homes have positive ventilation) you can generally run a\nsystem without the cover for extended periods without a problem. (I'm\ntalking about completely removing the cover - not just leaving the slots\nuncovered.) HOWEVER, the biggest reason you have a cover to begin with\nis RF sheilding. Operating a system without the full cover may create\nproblems with other equipment such as your neighbor's TV or Ham radio\nstation - very much a no-no in the eyes of the law.\n\n\n * SLMR 2.1a * Remember - They're only tools, not a way of life!\n", " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nI've always taken Murphy's Law to be an exhortation to prudence, and\nan observation about the behavior of complex systems, rather than a\ndenial of divine benevolence.", "\n[deletia]\n\n\n In the deletions somewhere, it mentioned something about chopping\noff of hands being a punishment for theft in Saudi Arabia. Assuming this\nis so (I wouldn't know), and assuming it is done by people fitting your\nrequirement for \"muslim\" (which I find highly likely), then would you\nplease try to convince Bobby Mozumder that muslims chop people's hands\noff?\n\n Come back when you've succeeded.\n", "---------- cut here ---------- part 01/01\nbegin 644 1260wn31.exe\nM35KO 1D & -$,__\\@ P $ ?#_'@ !0V]P>7)I9VAT(#$Y.#DM\nM,3DY,\"!02U=!4D4@26YC+B!!;&P@4FEG:'1S(%)E7_#XK?BOJQ!-/KB]73ZD(KPH[ B\\N&Z0,V?P2,\nMV@/1CMJ+S8ON,__1Z1//\\Z6%VW04_LR.P/[.CMJY @S_XOU\\Z5+Z^B.V#/ \nM4,O1ZXO+T>O1Z]'K0RO#CL S__.EPS/V,]LSTC/_BHPP NA- (J70@*+ZB:(\nM3@ FB)X 0/H@?T 7+O0_[-=>2*C#D\"Z\"H A]^*EX(\"B^I#0R:(C@ \")HB>\nM ,#Z('] %R[DO^S77AA_M&@_X)\"(3-#4F)W@8%@ \"!@X> 1$)&3D%)14U#2UM'5T]?0-#(V,34S-S\"TLK\nM:QM;.WL'1R=G%U?7-[=W]P^/3\\\\OKV_O'Y]?WS^_?_\\ @$%#0,+&P<7-R]O\nM'Y]?WS^_?_\\/Z&L +HX>VP&++@ 3;X* \"Z+/M @ #V/J.TXLF! #[ P8( \"ZCUP&A\nM!@ NH]4!C,\".V#/ B]B+R(O0B^B+\\(OX+O\\NU0$N@S[? 0!U$\"Z!/N$! -W\nM!RZ++N$!ZP.] ,N*2[A 2Z#'M\\! \"Z.!MT>M9+HX&W0$>\nM5@8?B_1* P@B*Z#+DK(;$L0![P @@,8\"@?\\ 0'?SC,$N.P[= 74\"CL(N\nMB1;= 8S:B]ZQ!-/K ]..VH/F#UE:6P/N3>EK_P ! $ X2T \nM # ;P\\ !C8H - \" 7$!7@%/ 34!:Q U$-H1%Q7$%%(5(R=!*,LH ;X#\nM6 /L P$\"> =8=3'[Q48)KI2>6R' ^_$'\"XO7Q>70%,$ =;%5\nM@P5A J!\"XEX)FOQ_UR/Z_0]8)9 -[!.]] >A*D0(D1\"W:@&T6Z!28I=&\\*93\nM@GGQI:VXF&[=. <0/F[: 0#+^R$N(L'(%^5@X@*'XZX=H#.,9(:B2#TZH!TD\nMH8.3'Z(O_H^P; FTA*^4$!!A.1IH!XDY9!S\"COX7-W$;L,$CL*X3H$ JHCH?\nM'C?H4G= ,.VZ,7^JQ%'R*%\"]!TL@.R^8 % M4JYZ/Z$#1FY=, )4Y)A\\'\\A\nM.-V6-6'V?Q,PP*3!*SFZO_TV(&95.V!X>.)B[(J!_E=)/K%1_SU?X/,F ?-\\\nM23%$R$S@*O*]%J8Z/ZT*S3\"\"Y8TAY*B'0_0#[Z&J33,C;L05NZ\nM\"*_B3CF L24GXD(J4'TEL(ZX GI.@59]P_]#N+L2M*,]ZNX!#M,UF-@F2MWK\nM(0X\"3^N:Q[V+*N(^(%N3_O=B#8/S-*G!QD0#DO0';>9PQ;D*8D*8.O)_*,;3\nMI0%M8$QA!IGAW95MHW2\"\\#WP]\"Y8=)18Q(VO(A9W J>TWW_] ;GX!_FQ[O.%\nM]NL>Q&U:0'CR^>0OI)P>9 !PAP@5)$J\"= >F;QC0J&(\"T&')[P!;#@78LR) \nM.X@F!S@0^&27_T]7+9C^'=KJTWS#].@TD+7N].$TT!I-;1I(#N-T -Q#21[B\nM],H* 2I6)-/]SK.)5.(R1(BZC::'989LB!@@8#X,ZW#?&_/S[8ZF!/J8*@9H\nMV B:\\<+TB0%$H Q!]@R#7SJ\\F[-G3(!R??:D@69%KK_!63[^N-Y:#B#B]]L4)#41P5Q197A^[IQC>M=YS#,3LZ$7R7R\\:_?[]Z#5P\nM9'F;H&2\"@0M\"N0)LXH\"9\"9XFF)X@: (DHQ-T3: OH,Q*VAM4GT>E[N\\5M#ID\nM^1XMZEY\\5 %SJ#PZ. 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I know locally, for most of the winter\nthe ground, and concrete floor, within sheds and garages (unheated) is\nsignifacantly warmer than the average air temperature. The air does get\nwarmer during the day, but during the night, the ground and concrete\nis definitely warmer, especially when protected by the walls from the\nalbedo effect. And the nights are longer by several hours than the\ndays.\n\n", "\n\n------------ Part 14 of 14 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End of part 14 of 14 --------\n", "\n\nI beg to disagree with the assertion that science is a collection of models.\nScientific models are a game to play, and are only as good as the\nassumptions and measurements (if any) that go into them.\n\nAs an example, I remember when nuclear winter was the big hype in\natmospheric science. It wasn't long after Sagan's admonitions that\none of our boys was adding another level of reality into his model of\nthe nuclear winter scenario at ERL in Boulder. He decided to assume\nthat the atmosphere is more like a two-dimensional thing, than a one-\ndimensional thing. He also assumed that it rained and that the winds\nblow in the real atmosphere. On returning to Georgia Tech, he showed\na transparency of atmospheric cooling rates according to the year they\nwere generated by the models. There was an unmistakable correlation\nbetween the age (meaning simplicity of assumptions; i.e., remoteness\nfrom reality) of each model and the degree of cooling. Whereas Sagan's\nmodel showed an approximate 40-degree cooling episode, the next model \nin sophistication showed about half that, and so on until we got to\nour boy's model, which showed a 1-2 degree drop if the war happened in\nthe winter and less than a 10 degree drop if it happened in the summer.\nHe predicted that when we would include the presence of oceans, chemistry,\nthe biosphere, and other indicators of reality in the models, we would\nprobably see even less cooling. Thus nuclear winter was reduced to even\nless than a nuclear autumn, one might say, to a nuclear fizzle.\n\nTo quote from H.S. Yoder,\n\n\tThe postulated models have become accepted as the reality\n\tinstead of the lattice of assumptions they are.\n\tAuthoritarianism dominates the field, and a very critical\n\tanalysis of each argument is to be encouraged.... Skepticism\n\tof the model approach to earth problems is warranted because\n\tmany key parameters have not been included.\n\nThis statement surely applies equally well to cosmogony. Only when\nconvincing observational evidence substantiates the modeled results\nmay one suggest that the model may describe the reality. Just thought\nI'd clear that up before things really got out of hand. \n \n-- \nboundary", "If you haven't heard yet, US Senator Patty Murrey, a Mom in\ntennis shoes, is planning to introduce legislation to tax\nall handgun transactions and increase dealer licnese costs in\norder to raise money to cover the costs of un-insured shooting\nvictums. She plans to start with $2500.00 per year dealer fees\nand $40.00 or so, depending on the type of firearm, per gun\ntransaction. She plans to make it federal.\n She was elected in Washington state under the trade mark as\njust a mom in tennis shoes. She can be written to via the\nUnited States Senate, Washinton DC. She is looking for your\ntennis shoes. So if you have a pair please send them to her\nwith your feelings regarding this tax. \n She claims she has heard little from the opposition.\n\nLets inundate her!\n\n", "\n Computers are a special case.. and it's a pretty good idea to\n leave them on.. cuz everytime you turn on a computer, you're \n putting a surge of electricity through its delicate components.\n Imagine you're turning on your computer 5 or more times a day.\n You're increasing the chances of damaging the chips, memory,\n etc on all the components of your computer. So you may save\n a few cents here and there in electricity bills, but it won't\n look like much when it come time to fix your computer.", "\nGregg, so would you consider that Rushdie would now be left alone,\nand he could have a normal life? In other words, does Islam support\nthe notion of forgiving?\n\nCheers,\nKent", "\nAsk me whether I'm surprised that you haven't managed to waddle out of\ncollege after all this time.\n", "\n\nAnd not only that, made a second clone from the same tissue sample\nafter that of said domineering wife, to run at the helm of the\nmore-pro-business party under guise of more free trade ... and\nshe did inhale, many times, to boot ...\n\n(-; (-; (-; \n\ngld", "\nOf course not. There's more than a little difference between formulating\nforeign policy and overseeing the ATF's handling of a scenario involving a\ngroup of religious fanatics. Why do people compare apples and oranges?", "Is anyone out there using a greyscale handscanner. I'm thinking about\nbuying one. Is the inexpensive Logitech pretty good. I don't need\nsuper high quality scans- but want it to be worth the $$$$.", "Can someone elaborate a little on what this \"Libertarian\" movement is? I\nam not going to draw conclusions from a small sample, but so far I\nrecall two self-described \"Libertarians\" posting here. Both seems to be:\n\n1) Incredibly ignorant.\n2) Incredibly arrogant.\n3) All they want is to get people angry.\n4) Posses a lousy sense of humor.\n5) write incoherently and jump from topic to topic without any logical\n connection between topics.\n6) Describe themselves as intelligent and knowledgeable, although everything\n in their posters points to the opposite.\n7) Very childish.\n\nIs this some campaign to smear this Libertarian party or what?", "Mr. Clinton said today that the horrible tragedy of the Waco fiasco\nshould remind those who join cults of the dangers of doing so.\nNow, I began scratching my head thinking (a bad sign :-), \"don't the \nmainstream religions (in this case Christianity...or the 7th day \nadventist in particular) just keep these guys going ? Isn't Mr. Clinton \ncondemning his own religion ? After all, isn't it a cult too ?\"", "\n There was an article on clari.news.religion in the last few days about a\nPolish tribunal decision. It said that crucifixes and religious classes in\npublic schools were okay; and that children who did not want to take religion\nclass could not be forced to take an ethics class as a substitute.", "\nIf your Gateway is equipped with a Western hard drive, then the noise\nis probably coming from there and not from the fan. The Western drives\nare notoriously noisy. On the other hand, if you don't have a Western\ndrive, then maybe it is the fan. There's not alot to do about it except\ninsulate around the cpu somehow.", "For all those who are interested and would like to discuss the popular\nSecret Life..and/or other technical documentaries.. Please email me\nas i am starting a newsgroup\n\n", "\n\nA religion is a cult which if those in power belong to it.\n\nActually, they're all bull shit.", "\nI don't claim to be an expert on the branch Davidians, but I might know more \nthan most.\n\nThe Branch Davidian group (led by Koresh) is actually one of two off-shoots \nof a group known as the Shephard's Rod. The Shephard's Rod (now \ndefunct as far as I know)broke off from the SDA Church in the 30's.\n\nThe Shephard's Rod broke away from the SDA Church because they felt that the \nSDA Church was becoming weak and falling into apostacy. They felt that they \nwere the remnant spoken about in Revelation.\n\nAbout the Koresh group, Koresh gained control of it in 1987 or 1988. Once \nin control, he made himself the center of it. He proclaimed himself as \nChrist.\n\nKoresh himself came from an SDA background. He was excommunicated as a young \nadult by the local congregation for trying to exert too much control over \nthe youth in the church. After this, he joined the Branch Davidians.\n\nThey were/are a survivalist cult. This is why they had the stockpile of \nweapons, food, a bomb shelter, etc. They had no intent of raiding the US \ngovernment or anything. They were preparing for Armaggedon and were \nputting themselves in a self defense position. \n\nIn my opinion, if the ATF and the FBI had left well enough alone, we wouldn'\nt have the blood of 20+ children crying out from the ashes in Waco.\n\nIf you want to know about The Shephard's Rod, you might want to visit the \nlocal SDA church and talk to some of the older people. They could give you \nsome insight into where Koresh got his theology.", "\nDo they have a history of working in massage parlors, and telling\nco-workers there that they are prostitutes? Do they frequent truck\nstop parking lots at 4:00 AM, without ID on any sort?\n", "\nCite one of these conflicting statutes. You keep making\nthese assertions, but you haven't supported any of them yet.\nI am speaking of statutes that conflict with the definition\nLarry posted.\n\nWhy did you delete the code that Larry posted?\n\nAlso, the Model Penal Code made perfect sense to me. Were you,\nperhaps, confused by it?\n\nAlso, I am still looking for your definition. The one you used\nclearly indicates that a fetus is not a human being.\n\n\nCircular arguments are usually very consistent.\n\n\n\nAgain, your desire for consistency disappears when it does not suit\nyour needs. The principle of protecting life is abandoned based\non \"action versus inaction.\" Not much of a principle. Suddenly\nyou recognize that the claim on bodily resources is dependent\non circumstances other than this principle of life. That's\na very conevnient principle you have there, Matt.", "On a slightly different note:\n\nThere are two buildings in NY state with big 666 numbers on the\nroof :)\n\nOne in Manhattan and one near Garden City. The Garden City one\nis a nice black unmarked building...\n\n", "\n\nOK. I stand corrected. I guess, then, that the comments about payoffs\n(i.e., \"pork\") to Puerto Ricans that others have been making still\nstands?\n\nNow, everybody, how about some opinion on the following related topic:\n\nShould the people who are natives of U.S. territories have\nrepresentation in the U.S. House of Rep's or the U.S. Congress?\nThe U.S. Constitution sets up the House of Representatives to represent\neach State in proportion to its population, and the Senate to represent\neach State equally. What should be done with U.S. territories like\nPuerto Rico? Does anyone have knowledge about how this was handled in\nthe past, such as with the Louisiana Territory or the Northwest\nTerritory?\n\nChris\n", "\n\n\tJust wondering, do you mean the \"Lectorium Rosicrucianum\"?\nWarning: There is no point in arguing who's \"legit\" and who's not. *WHICH*\nGolden Dawn are you talking about?\n\n\tJust for the sake of argument, (reflecting NO affiliation)\nI am going to say that the TRUE Rosicrucian Order is the Fraternitas\nRosae Crucis in Quakertown, Penn.,\n\n\tAny takers? :-)\n\nFraternally,", "\nIt seems to me that the original question was for advice on his problem\nnot a history lesson - I think that if this question comes up from time\nto time then people should get a civil answer \n\n\n\n\nCould ANYONE please explain WHAT happens with a battery and is there any\ncure to get it back into life\n \n", "Article in this morning's Houston Post....\"negotiators send food to\nrebellious inmates as humanitarian gesture\"...speaking about the Ohio prison\nriot where they have killed at least one of the hostage guards.\n\nI know it's not the same \"group\" but the mindset appears to be common to\n\"those what rule\" here lately....they won't give diddley to the BD's in Waco\nbut they treat criminals as deserving of \"humanitarian gestures\".\n\nThis is but another indicator that the criminal caste seems to enjoy more\npriviliges in today's society than their victims or other law abiding\ncitizens. What is it that makes the criminal so precious to the \"leaders of\nthe system\"?\n\nCould it be that the criminal is one of the \"tools\" the \"authorities\" are\nusing to \"excuse\" some of the rights negation they are trying to foist upon\nthe law abiding citizen in the name of crime control....don't solve the crime\nproblem because then the citizen couldn't be held hostage to \"our help\".\n\nIf the crime problem were solved in favor of the citizen/victim at the\nexpense of the criminal none of the crap such as RICO and gun banning could\nbe used as excuses to work the agenda of those who would control our every\nmove and thought.\n---\n . OLX 2.2 . If I have to explain, you wouldn't understand.\n ", "\n\nIn this era of AIDS, isn't someone's fucking *everyone's* interest? (semi\n:-))\n\nI propose \"We have no motto.\"\n\nRecently in the glorious state of Maryland (the only state whose state song\nrefers to Abraham Lincoln as a tyrant), people have gotten all wound up over\nthe state motto (which we inherited from the Calverts):\n\n \"Fatti Maschii, Parole Femine\"\n\nwhich, if you read Italian, says,\n\n \"Manly deeds, womanly words\"\n\nor something to that effect. In the state which not so long ago had four\nwomen out of seven representatives, this represents a problem. The official\nsolution was to change the translation, so now it means:\n\n \"Strong deeds, gentle words\"\n\nMy personal suggestion was changing it to \"walk softly and carry a big\nstick.\"", "\n\nI think we agree on much. However the paragraphs above seem to repeat\nuncritically the standard Kuhn/Lakatos/Feyerabend view of \"progress\" and\n\"rationality\" in science. Since I've addressed these issues in this\nnewsgroup in the not too distant past, I won't go into them again now.\n\nWhat is wrong with the above observation is that it explicitly gives the\nimpression (and you may not in fact hold this view) that the common (perhaps\neven the \"correct\") approach for a scientist to follow is to sit around\nhaving flights of fancy and scheming on the basis of his jealousies and\npetty hatreds. It further at least implicitly advances the position that\nsciences goes \"forward\" (and it is not clear what this means given the\ncontext in which it occurs) by generating in a completely non-rational\nand even random way a plethora of hypotheses and theories that are then\nweeded out via the \"critical function\" of science. (Though why this critical\nfunction should be less subject to the non-rational forces is a mystery.\nIf experimental design, hypotheses creation, and theory construction are\nsubject to jealousies and petty hatreds, then this must be equally true\nof the application of any \"critical function\" concerning replication.\nThis is what leads one (ala Feyerabend) to an \"anything goes\" view.)\n\nTrue, the generation part *can* be totally irrational. But typically it is\n*not*. Anecdotes concerning instances where a hypothesis seems to have\nresulted in some way from a dream or from one's political views simply\ndo not generalize well to the actual history of science.", "rh> From: house@helios.usq.EDU.AU (ron house)\nrh> Newsgroups: alt.atheism\nrh> Organization: University of Southern Queensland\n\n\n\nrh> I _know_ I shouldn't get involved, but... :-)\n\nrh> [bit deleted]\n\n[rest of rant deleted]\n\nThis is a standard argument for fundies. Can you spot the falicy? The\nstatement is arguing from the assumption that Jesus actually existed. So far,\nthey have not been able to offer real proof of that existance. Most of them\ntry it using the (very) flawed writings of Josh McDowell and others to prove\nit, but those writers use VERY flawed sources. (If they are real sources at\nall, some are not.) When will they ever learn to do real research, instead of\nbelieving the drivel sold in the Christian bookstores.\n\nrh> Righto, DAN, try this one with your Cornflakes...\n\nrh> The book says that Muhammad was either a liar, or he was\nrh> crazy ( a modern day Mad Mahdi) or he was actually who he\nrh> said he was. Some reasons why he wouldn't be a liar are as\nrh> follows. Who would die for a lie? Wouldn't people be able\nrh> to tell if he was a liar? People gathered around him and\nrh> kept doing it, many gathered from hearing or seeing how his\nrh> son-in-law made the sun stand still. Call me a fool, but I\nrh> believe he did make the sun stand still. \nrh> Niether was he a lunatic. Would more than an entire nation\nrh> be drawn to someone who was crazy. Very doubtful, in fact\nrh> rediculous. For example anyone who is drawn to the Mad\nrh> Mahdi is obviously a fool, logical people see this right\nrh> away.\nrh> Therefore since he wasn't a liar or a lunatic, he must have\nrh> been the real thing. \n\nNice rebutal!", "Mark Ira Kaufman writes", "\n[A lot of interesting stuff about gopher - deleted]\n\n\n\nI've heard of it but lost the intro posting that came out a while back -\ncould you post it again? I think it's of general interest.\n\n\nBen", "\nEven if what Brad says turns out to be accurate, you can bet that the\nAdministration will have made it \"very clear\" to the vendors that \"it\nwould very much be in their best interests\" to institute a \"voluntary\"\npolicy of refusing to sell anything but Clinton Cripple equipped equipment\nto anyone other than \"Authorized government agencies and Law Enforcement\",\nor individuals and corporations who \"have been been determined by the\nAdministration to have a valid need on a case-by-case basis\" for an\neffective system.\n\nNote that this is very much like the language used in many gun control\nbills/laws the Administration is pushing for, or otherwise supporting.\nThe logic and actual rationale (as opposed to the excuses that get fed\nto the media) is the same in both cases, only the items or technology\nin question are different.\n\nI think this is no accident. It comes from the same philosophy that\nthe government rules/controls the people, not the people controlling\nthe government, that the unconnected citizens are not sophisticated enough\nto know what is best for them, so the government must tell the people\nwhat they need or do not need ... \"we know best...\". And the idea that\nthat a commoner can defend himself against government eavesdropping\nor unlawful attack is totally unacceptable to people with this outlook.\n\n\nCombine this all with pushing for national identity cards with 'smart\nchips' to encode anything they please (internal passport) under the\nguise of streamlining the State People's Health Care System, and with\n(you can be certain) more jewels yet to come, and one sees an extremely\nominous trend. So what if \"1984\" will be ten years late... it still is\nturning out to be an amazingly accurate prophecy... unless a LOT of\npeople wake up, and in a hurry.\n\nOne should ALWAYS have every red warning light and bell and danger flag\ncome up when the government seeks to set itself apart in regard to\nrights, etc. from the unconnected/unprivileged citizen (or should we\nnow be saying 'subject' instead?)... Why SHOULDN'T the average person\nhave a good, secure system of data security, not dependent on nebulous\n'safeguards' for maintaining that security? Why SHOULDN'T the average\nperson be able to defend himself from an agency gone rogue? 0I am sure\nthe Feds could break into any data they really wanted to (but it would\ntake some WORK), and using the same logic, one should not be allowed to\nhave a good safe, unless a duplicate of the key(s) or combination are\nsubmitted for 'safekeeping' by the government? I don't really see a\ndifference, philosophically. Encrypted data sure won't evaporate, not\nwith such high-tech tools as a TAPE RECORDER...\n", "\n\nAll children are born pure, i.e., without sin.\nHowever, most saints would view a pregnancy\noutside of marriage as an occasion of mourning.\n(Some church members would be much more\njudgmental, but that is *their* problem.)\n\nIn situations where welfare assistance is \nprovided through our Church, bishops usually\nrequire that the family be making some effort to\nlive the Gospel standards and provide for \nthemselves.\n\nHowever, there are occasions when assistance is\nprovided because of the children in the home.\nAs a former bishop of mine said, \"Children are \nalways worthy before God.\"\n\n\nI am not sure what you mean by the term \"bastards\"\nin this context.\n\nLatter-Day Saints believe that through the\ntemple ordinances the family unit may be\npreserved in eternity.\n\nIf you use genealogical material or software\nproduced by the Church, you may notice a section\nfor \"temple ordinances.\" Within that section\nthere should be a spot for signifying \"BIC\"\nwhich stands for \"born in the covenant.\"\n\nThe children born to couple sealed (married)\nwithin the temple are \"born in the covenant\"\nand are eligible to be part of that eternal\nfamily unit.\nChildren born to other couples (whether in a\ncivil marriage or not) would have to be\nsealed to their parents after their marriage\nis solemnized for eternity.\n\nSupposing a child were born to a woman out of\nwedlock, he or she could be sealed to his or\nher parents at a later date or adopted into \nany eternal family unit (which may include one\nof the birth parents).\n\n\nI can't say if this principle of adoption\nwas revealed at the same time as the sealing \nordinances, but it has been accepted for the \n~15 years I have been in the Church.\n\nI would tend to discount any admonitions from\nthe Church authorities against having children\nout of wedlock because even though there are\nprovisions within the Lord's plan to recover\nwhat we have done wrong the Church does not\nwant to give anyone the impression we can sin\nand repent at our leisure.", "\n\nHere's something to add to the discussion:\n\nNewsgroups: misc.activism.progressive\nFrom: \"James P. Reynolds\" \nSubject: When you're not using it, turn it off!\nDate: Mon, 22 Mar 1993 06:50:14 GMT\nLines: 53\n\nResearch has shown that the majority of the time that the United\nStates' 30 to 35 million personal computers are on, they are not\nactively being used. In addition, 30 to 40 percent are left running\nat night and on weekends.\n\nComputer equipment is now the fastest growing private-sector use\nof electricity. Computers alone are believed to account for five\npercent of commercial electricity consumption, and may account for\nten percent by the year 2000.\n\nIf you are one of those who leave them on after you're done, it\nwould be a big environmental benefit if you would just TURN IT OFF\nwhen you're not using it. It only takes a second or two to do.\n\nAlso, the majority of the power your computer uses is not consumed\nby the computer itself, but by the monitor. If you can't turn the\ncomputer off, then please just TURN OFF THE MONITOR.\n\nThe U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has formed an alliance\nwith computer manufacturers to promote the introduction of energy-\nefficient PCs that \"power down\" automatically when not being used\nand thus reduce the air pollution caused by power generation. These\nnew computers will save enough electricity to power both Vermont and\nNew Hampshire and save up to 1 billion U.S. dollars in annual\nelectricity bills. Look for the special EPA \"Energy Star\" logo when\nyou buy computers. They should be available in one to two years.\n\nAccording to the EPA studies, the energy saved will prevent CO2\nemissions of 20 million tons annually, the equivalent of five million\nautomobiles. Also, 140,000 tons of SO2 and 75,000 tons of nitrogen\noxide emissions will be saved; these are the major pollutants\nresponsible for acid rain.\n\nPlease do your part ... be responsible. If you're not using it,\nthen just TURN IT OFF.\n\n- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -\n\nInformation herein is partially taken from the 1993 \"Information\nPlease\" Almanac, page 573, and the U.S. Envirnomental Protection\nAgency's \"Environmental News.\"\n\nPlease redistribute this message to every computer bulletin board,\nnetwork, memo system, etc. you can think of. Archive it and post\nit every so often if you can. Let's get the word out to everyone.\nWe need to be responsible about the way we consume.", "\nHey, I'm a \"Macho Real Man\" and I DO read it. So I can criticize\nit all I want, especially since I pay for the publication. (They\naccept no outside advertising, don't you know....)\n\n\nRelying on Consumer Reports to pick your automobiles is like\nletting Field & Stream select your living room furniture.", "Note: These trial updates are summarized from reports in the\n_Idaho Statesman_ and the local NBC affiliate television\nstation, KTVB Channel 7.\n\nRandy Weaver/Kevin Harris trial update: Day 4.\n\nFriday, April 16, 1993 was the fourth day of the trial.\n\nSynopsis: Defense attorney Gerry Spence cross-examined agent\nCooper under repeated objections from prosecutor Ronald\nHowen. Spence moved for a mistrial but was denied.\n\nThe day was marked by a caustic cross-examination of Deputy\nMarshal Larry Cooper by defense attorney Gerry Spence. Although\nSpence has not explicitly stated so, one angle of his stategy\nmust involve destroying the credibility of agent Cooper. Cooper is\nthe government's only eyewitness to the death of agent Degan.\nSpence attacked Cooper's credibility by pointing out discrepancies\nbetween Cooper's statements last September and those made in court.\nCooper conceded that, \"You have all these things compressed into\na few seconds...It's difficult to remember what went on first.\"\n\nCooper acknowledged that he carried a \"9mm Colt Commando submachine\ngun with a silenced barrel.\" [I thought a Colt Commando was a revolver!]\nCooper continued by stating that the federal agents had no specific\nplans to use the weapon when they started to kill Weaver's dog.\n\nWhen Spence asked how seven cartridges could be fired by Degan's\nM-16 rifle when Degan was apparently dead, Cooper could not say for\nsure that Degan did not return fire before going down.\n\nSpence continued by asking with how many agents (and to what extent)\nhad Cooper discussed last August's events, Cooper responded, \"If\nyou're implying that we got our story together, you're wrong,\ncounselor.\" Spence continued to advance the defense's version of\nthe events: Namely, that a marshal had started the shooting by\nkilling the Weaver's dog. Cooper disagreed.\n\nAssistant U.S. Attorney Ronald Howen repeatedly objected to Spence's\nvirulent cross-examination of agent Cooper, arguing that the questions\nwere repetitive and Spence was wasting time. Howen also complained \nthat Spence was improperly using a cross-examination to advance the\ndefense's version of the events. U.S. District Judge Edward Lodge\nsustained many of the objections; however, both lawyers persisted\nuntil Judge Lodge had the jury leave the room and proceded to\nadmonish both attorneys. \"I'm not going to play games with either\ncounsel. This has been a personality problem from day 1, so start\nacting like professionals.\"\n\nSpence told the judge that, \"When all the evidence is in, we'll see\nthat ... his [agent Larry Cooper] testimony is not credible, that\nhe was panicked and cannot remember the sequence of events.\" \nSpence continued, \"We're going to find...that there is a very unlikely\nsimilarity - almost as if it had come out of a cookie cutter - between\nthe testimony of Mr. Cooper and the other witnesses.\"\n\nSpence then moved for a mistrial on the grounds that Howen's repeated\nobjections would prevent a fair trial, \"We can't have a fair trial if the\njury believes I'm some sort of charlatan, if the jury believes I'm\nbending the rules or engaging in some delaying tactic or that I'm\nviolating court orders.\"\n\nJudge Lodge called the notion that his repeated sustainings of Howen's\nobjections had somehow prejudiced the jury was \"preposterous\" and\ndenied the motion for a mistrial. Lodge did tell Howen to restrict\nhis comments when objecting.\n\nThe trial resumed with the prosecution calling FBI Special Agent Greg\nRampton. The prosecution's purpose was simply to introduce five\nweapons found in the cabin as evidence: However, the defense seized\non the opportunity to further address Cooper's credibility.\n\nDefense attorney Ellison Matthews (Harris' other attorney) questioned\nRampton about the dog. Rampton stated that there were no specific\nplans to kill the Weaver's dog without being detected. Matthews then\nhad Rampton read a Septtember 15, 1992 transcript in which Rampton\nhad said that Cooper had said that the purpose of the silenced weapon\nwas to kill the dog without being detected, if the dog chased them.\nRampton then acknowledged that he believed that Cooper had said that,\nbut he could not remember when. He then stated that, \"I did not conduct\nthe primary interview with Deputy Cooper, but I have had conversations\nwith him since the interview was conducted.\"", "\n\nEd of course has never demonstrated remarkable knowlege of socialism, \nor any other political system come to that.\n\n\nThat leaves Germany, Japan and the UK as examples of a country where the\nright wing government is on the verge of collapse. Oh and of course the USA\nwhich just elected a socialist government :-)\n\n\nEtc, unfortunately you can't pin this on the left or the right, both are\nto blame. Both sides are equally deep into the corruption scandal. The only \nuntained party is the northern league which is a bunch of nationalist\nseparatists and the communist party which has collapsed.\n\n\n\nEd should take a look at the budget deficit Regan and Bush created together\nbefore he starts to make claims about europe collapsing based on the budget\ndeficits here. None of them are serious on the USA scale.\n\nAnd here in Europe we have zero interest in Ed-Ipser type freed thank you.\nWe do not want our countries to be run by a narrow elite of rich lawyers\nfor the benefit of the super wealthy. We are quite happy with social \ndemocracy and despite the fuss made in Time and Newsweek there is remarkably\nlittle being done to reverse the social welfare reforms brought in by\nsocialism.\n\nThe problem with socialism is that it started with the aims of free education\nand health care and provision of the welfare state. This has been achieved\nacross the whole of Europe, only the USA is struggling to catch up. The\nproblem for socialism is what to do now it has succeeded.\n\n\n\nEd starts to discus LA, presumably he thinks that it is in Europe. On\nthe other hand he most probably hasn't heard of a European city.\n\n\nRather the opposite. What is happening in Italy is that the communist party\nhas collapsed. This has meant that the grand coalition between right and\nleft wing parties to keep out the communists has also collapsed. The \nmagistrates have seized this opportunity to crack down hard on fraud and \ncorruption and have arrested half the politicians. The fact that the socialists\nare in charge this week is incidental, the right is into the corruption just\nas baddly.\n\nWhat looks likely to happen is the fringe parties are going to do much\nbetter in the next election. Most of the parliamentary deputies are going\nto get replaced and the parties are going to be forced to look to people\nwho are free of any hint of corruption. Look out for a parliament of\nPavarotti's and porn stars.\n", "\n\nYour post is based on the premise that the laws as they stand do not\ndiscriminate anybody, so your argument falls over immediately. Are you\nreally that dumb as to use emotive language to prove an argument?\nPlease feel free to answer, that is, if you have anything intelligent\nto say on the matter.\n\n\n\n", "I am posting this for a friend. Please do not respond to me. Thanks.\n\nHouse for Sale!!!!!\n16 Brockton Road, Mercerville, New Jersey\n\nDescription: Beautiful 3 bedroom, 1 1/2 bath cape cod located on a large \ntastefully landscaped corner with fenced in lot. This home features an eat-in \n\nkitchen with built-in corner china closet, a large living room, wall-to-wall \ncarpeting, hardwood floors, new ceramic tile foyer, and freshly painted \nneutral tone decor. This home includes new central air and heating, new roof, \nnew water heater, aluminum siding, storm windows and doors and Rockwell \ninsulation in all exterior walls. Also features a new partially finished \nbasement with an outside entrance and new Duro shed. Lots of storage space. \nConvenient to Rt. 295.\n\nExtras: Dishwasher, Washer and Dryer, Ceiling Fans, and Window Treatments\n\nCall for appointment at (609) 586-1946.", "#> Ah, I know women who wear miniskirts without wearing underwear, and\n#> they are not prostitutes.\n#No, I suppose they must be sluts.\n\nNope. They both are very nice women, whom I'm good friends with. \n\nOr do you think its ok to rape anyone when you don't like the way they\ndress?\n\n#> Gee, Both Clayton and Kaldis engaging in ad hominem arguments.\n#Where?\n\nCalling someone names, as you did. Are you ignorant of what an ad\nhominem argument is?\n\n#You provided absolutely no evidence, chump.\n\nI provided a quote from the judge. What else do you want?\n", "\n > When Elizabeth greeted Mary with the words: \"Blessed art thou\n > among women\" (Luke 1:42), it appears that this places Mary\n > beyond the sanctification of normal humanity.\n\nBut Deborah says (Judges 5:24):\n\n > Blessed among women shall be Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite,\n > Blessed above all women in the tents.\n\nIt can doubtless be taken that Jael's slaying of Sisera was a type\nof Mary's victory over sin. But even if we take Deborah's words as\napplying prophetically or symbolically to Mary, they must still be\napplicable literally to Jael. We may well take them to mean that\nGod used her as a part of His plan for the deliverance of His\npeople, and that she has this in common with Mary. But we have no\nreason to suppose that they mean that she was sinless, and thus no\nreason to take the like expression applied to Mary as proof that she\nwas sinless.", "I just installed a DX2-66 CPU in a clone motherboard, and tried mounting a CPU \ncooler on the chip. After about 1/2 hour, the weight of the cooler was enough \nto dislodge the CPU from its mount. It ended up bending a few pins\non the CPU, but luckily the power was not on yet. I ended up\npressing the CPU deeply into its socket and then putting the CPU\ncooler back on. So far so good.\n\nHave others had this problem? How do you ensure that the weight of\nthe CPU fan and heatsink do not eventually work the CPU out of its\nsocket when mounting the motherboard in a vertical case?\n", "\n\nMadmen are mad. Do we try to explain the output from a broken computer?\nI think not.", "If you want to see environmental disasters, go to eastern Europe or some\nparts of the FSU (former Soviet Union). This is because they had no\nenvironmental protection laws and were trying to increase productivity\nat any expense to justify their political systems. Luckily for us, some\nof our politicians with vision passed some environmental laws. That\nisn't to say that they shouldn't be modified, but all I ever hear from\nyou is that the environmental laws were dreamed up by a bunch of\nleft-wing tree-huggers intent on putting us back on horseback. Yes,\nthere are some of those, but a lot of us simply want to procede with\ncaution.\n\n-- \nJohn Viveiros (jviv@chevron.com)\nChevron USA Standard disclaimer applies\nMidland TX \n-- \n NetNews userid for nntpserver.chevron.com", "-> >-> \n-> >-> For those who still doubt what is going on, this is\n-> >-> from the still uncensored AP wire:\n-> >-> \n-> >-> Two journalists from Houston arrested at gun-point and\n-> >-> cuffed and jailed for taking pictures of the compound today.\n-> >-> Later released on bail, but cameras and film were confiscated.\n-> >-> \n-> >-> jh\n-> >\n-> >\tYou could work for CNN. Take a few lines from a story and\n-> >imply something with it but don't say what you really mean. \n-> >\n-> >\tThe police always close off the area around a major crime\n-> >scene to keep evidence from being disturbed\n-> \n-> By taking pictures?\n\n\tThey leave foot prints, they may drop some trash on the\nground, and they may pick up something that looks interesting.\n\n-> \n-> >, and it is a misdemeanor\n-> >to enter the closed off area. One of the photographers also quickly\n-> >spun around with a long lens camera while the officer was approaching,\n-> >a good way to get shot. \n-> \n-> Well, that (hopefully) depends on what country one is in.\n\n\tIt has nothing to do with the country. You are coming toward\nsomeone in an area where there has been violent confrontations, and\none guy spins around quickly with an object that looks like a gun.\nPolice are not trained to stand there and let someone gun them down.\n\n-> There was also no indication in that story\n-> >that they wouldn't get their cameras and film back after getting out\n-> >of jail.\n-> \n-> Once goverment agents have had an opportunity to check \n-> the film out.\n\n\tYou're making statements that are not supported by facts.\nDon't let paranoia get the best of you. Wait to see if the reporters\ndon't get their film back or they get it back developed before\nscreaming conspiracy.\n\n-> \n-> I think it was Barry Goldwater who once said \"the goverment\n-> that is big enough to give you everything is big enough to\n-> take everything from you.\" You life and/or freedom including.\n-> Of course, that could not happen to you, could it?\n\n\tOur government is not big enough to give you everything,\ndespite the efforts of people like Bill Clinton. Taking a statement\nlike that and thinking `everything done in the name of law enforcement\nis wrong' is simple minded and ignorant of history. A government is a\nnecessary evil, and we must decide what it should be allowed to do\nbased on facts, history, and not by baseless claims.", "Hello,", "\nSuch as? Not being able to get married isn't a roadblock to a permanent\nrelationship. Lack of a marriage certificate doesn't force a couple\nto break up. This is an excuse used by homosexuals because the \nalternative is to ask why they are so much more promiscuous than \nstraights.\n\n\n", "\n\nJesus also recognized other holy days, like the Passover. Acts 15 says \nthat no more should be layed on the Gentiles than that which is necessary.\nThe sabbath is not in the list, nor do any of the epistles instruct people\nto keep the 7th day, while Christians were living among people who did not\nkeep the 7th day. It looks like that would have been a problem.\n\nInstead, we have Scriptures telling us that all days can be esteemed alike\n(Romans 14:5) and that no man should judge us in regard to what kind of\nfood we eat, Jewish holy days we keep, or _in regard to the sabbath. (Col. 2.)\n\n\nI don't think that the Sabbath, or any other command of the law is totally\nirrelevant to modern Christians, but what about Collosions 2, where it says\nthat we are not to be judged in regard to the keeping of the sabbath?", "\n\tI have come to the conclusion that the TV stations here in LA\n\tWANT a riot to happen when the verdict comes in.\n\n\tIn a not so subtle way they are preparing their audience for the\n\tworst and even going so far as to want SOMETHING to happen for\n\ttheir viewers with all their commercials and their \"we are ready\n\tfor anything so watch US\" messages...\n\ncarlos.\n", "----------------------------Original message----------------------------\n D\"SB\n\nMincha, Tish(a Yamim La(Omer, Yom Chamishi, Y\"D b'Nisan ThShN\"G;\nUniversita Varsha b'Varsha, Galut HaMara Meod.\n\nSHALOM ALL!\nThose of You visiting The Ghetto City these days might be\ninterested in the following events timetable (abridged):\n19:00, Fri., 16th April, '93: Kabbalat Shabbat service at the Nozyk Shul\n (6 Twarda Street, Warsaw -- a 10 mins'\n walk from the Palace of Science &\n Culture: the tallest building in the\n city's centre, & the same distance from\n the Central Railway Station).\n09:30, Sat., 17th April, \" : Shacharit L'Shabbat service, Nozyk Shul.\n11:30, Sun., 18th April, \" : The Fallen Ones Memorial service, Nozyk Shul.\n13:00, Sun., 18th April, \" : Memorial Ceremony at the Jewish Cemetery\n (Okopowa Street, Warsaw).\n18:00, Sun., 18th April, \" : Official Arts Programme at the Congress Hall\n (a building adjacent to the Palace of\n Science & Culture, which -- like the Shul\n -- is located a quarter's walk from most of\n downtown hotels: Bristol, Forum, Victoria,\n Europejski, Holiday Inn, Marriott).\n12:00, Mon., 19th April, \" : Laying of Wreaths at the Ghetto Heros\n Monument.", "\nShit, i'm going to be a lot more carefull filling by income tax! 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\n#(Deletion)\n#># Point: Morals are, in essence, personal opinions. Usually\n#>#(ideally) well-founded, motivated such, but nonetheless personal. The\n#>#fact that a real large lot of people agree on some moral question,\n#>#sometimes even for the same reason, does not make morals objective; it\n#>#makes humans somewhat alike in their opinions on that moral question,\n#>#which can be good for the evolution of a social species.\n#>\n#>And if a \"real large lot\" (nice phrase) of people agree that there is a\n#>football on a desk, I'm supposed to see a logical difference between the two?\n#>Perhaps you can explain the difference to me, since you seem to see it\n#>so clearly.\n#>\n#(rest deleted)\n# \n#That's a fallacy, and it is not the first time it is pointed out.\n\nIt's not a fallacy - note the IF. IF a supermajority of disinterested people \nagree on a fundamantal value (we're not doing ethics YET Benedikt), then what \nis the difference between that and those people agreeing on a trivial\nobservation?\n\n#For one, you have never given a set of morals people agree upon. Unlike\n#a football. Further, you conveniently ignore here that there are\n#many who would not agree on tghe morality of something. The analogy\n#does not hold.\n\nI have, however, given an example of a VALUE people agree on, and explained\nwhy. People will agree that their freedom is valuable. I have also\nstated that such a value is a necessary condition for doing objective\nethics - the IF assertion above. And that is what I'm talking about, there\nisn't a point in talking about ethics if this can't be agreed.\n\n#One can expect sufficiently many people to agree on its being a football,\n#while YOU have to give the evidence that only vanishing number disagrees\n#with a set of morals YOU have to give.\n\nI'm not doing morals (ethics) if we can't get past values. As I say,\nthe only cogent objection to my 'freedom' example is that maybe people\naren't talking about the same thing when they answer that it is valuable.\nMaybe not, and I want to think about this some, especially the implications\nof its being true.\n\n#Further, the above is evidence, not proof. Proof would evolve out of testing\n#your theory of absolute morals against competing theories.\n\nGarbage. That's not proof either.\n\n#The above is one of the arguments you reiterate while you never answer\n#the objections. Evidence that you are a preacher.\n\nName that fallacy.", "\nWhen they explode 'em, all the screws fly away.", "***********************\t\n\t\t\t HOUSE FOR SALE BY OWNER\n\t\t\t ***********************\n\n\n\nSelling Price:\t\t$89,900\n\nOwner:\t\t\tSteve and Joyce Harvey Phone: (206) 254-4267\n\nAddress:\t\t3714 NE 148 ct., Vancouver, Washington 98682\n\nLegal Discrition:\tLot #14, Bush Gardens-3, recorded in Volume\n\t\t\t\"G\", of Plats Page 636 records of Clark County\n\nBuilder:\t\tTriangle Land, Built in 1975\n\nLeader:\t\t\tUS Bancorp Mortgage Co. (FHA) loan balance\n\t\t\t$36,000, 10% assumable\n\nLot size:\t\t101 ft. deep x 92 ft. wide\n\nSquare footage:\t\tImproved living area of 1,266 sq.ft. and\n\t\t\tdouble garage area of about 500 sq.ft.\n\nTaxes:\t\t\t1992 real estate taxes $826.26\n\nUtilities:\t\tWater / Sewer - City of Vancouver\n\t\t\tElectric - Clark County PUD\n\t\t\tRecycle / garbage - Vancouver Sanitary\n\nInsulation:\t\tClark County PUD Weatherization completed\n\t\t\t9-28-93 by Taseca Homes\n\nSchools:\t\tEvergreen School District\n\nAccess / Shopping:\tNear I-205 and Vancouver Mall\n\n\nHome Discription:\t3 bedroom, 2 bath ranch with new roof, new\n\t\t\tpaint in and out, new mini blinds, sunken\n\t\t\tliving room with vaulted ceiling, corner\n\t\t\tfireplace with wood stove insert. Kitchen has\n\t\t\trefinished cabinets, new sink, new dishwasher\n\t\t\tdrop in range and refrigerator. Has ceiling\n\t\t\tfans in living room and all three bedrooms.\n\t\t\tWell lit large double garage has new steel\n\t\t\tinsulated door, work bench, shelves and space\n\t\t\tfor washer and dryer.", "\nHmmmmm......what about their kids?\n\ncpk\n-- \nIt's been 80 days. Do you know where your wallet is?", "I booked a hotel (Red Roof Inn) last week in Cincinnati (Blue Ash, which\nis at the northern tip of the metro. Cincy area). I chose it for a few\nreasons.\n 1. All hotels in and near Dayton were booked solid.\n 2. This hotel is only costing $28/night.\n 3. It was one of about 4 rooms left on the night I reserved.\n 4. Cincinnati probably has more to to at night than Dayton. I intend\n to hit the riverboat entertainment at dusk!\n\nIf anyone has other suggestions for nightlife, please let me know of\nother hot spots. Thanks!", "I have a following ACAPULCO/CANCUN mini-vacation voucher for sale:\n\nVoucher entitles the holder to ONE ROUNDTRIP airfare and THREE DAYS/TWO\nNIGHTS lodging for ONE or TWO adults in ACAPULCO or CANCUN (your choice!),\nMexico. You have 15 MONTHS to use the voucher.\n\nAll reservations must be made 60 days in advance. Holiday and peak periods\nare excluded. Flights generally depart mid-week, usually on Tuesdays from\nmore than 70 major airports. Additional air transportation for additional\nperson will be made available.\n\n$50.00 FULLY REFUNDABLE deposit is required. It should be sent along with\nthe voucher to Casablanca Express by June 12, 1993. After that you will get\nthe reservation request form in which you have ONE YEAR to travel.\n\nThis package doesn't include meals, hotel taxes and gratuities.\n\nThe voucher is offered by Casablanca Express, 6345 Balboa Blvd., Ste. 130,\nEncino, CA 91316.\n \nApproximate retail value of the voucher is cited to be $1,100.00. The\nvoucher is fully transferable.\n\nBest offer takes it!", "I did hear this question asked during a radio news update of the case. (They\nwere talking about the ongoing trial and had some audio clips). Immediately\nafter the defense attorney asked the question, there was an \"Objection!\" heard\nin the background. The clip ended at that point so I don't know if the\nobjection was upheld. I can't imagine NC is *that* bad. \n\nThis I didn't hear as an audio clip but heard it reported a number of times on\nnews stories both during and after the trial. Now the \"we did it on purpose\"\nthing is stretching, I think it was something more like--he had it coming. If\nsomebody else remebers better than I on this second point, feel free to\nclarify. \n \nFrank\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nFrank R. Chloupek \nCHLOUPEK@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu \nDepartment of Physics -- *The* Ohio State University\n(Not just any Ohio State University) ", ": : So in conclusion it can be shown that there is essentially no\n: : logical argument which clearly differentiates a \"cult\" from a\n: : \"religion\". I challenge anyone to produce a distinction which\n: : is clear and can't be easily knocked down. \n\n: How about this one: a religion is a cult which has stood the test\n: of time.\n\nJust like history is written by the `winners' and not the `losers.'\nFrom what I've seen of religions, a religion is just a cult that\nwas so vile and corrupt it was able to exert it's doctrine using\npolitical and military measures. Perhaps if Koresh withstood the\nonslaught for another couple of months he would have started \nattracting more converts due to his `strength,' hence becoming a\nfull religion and not just a cult.\n", "You keep saying that. I do not think it means what you think it\nmeans.\nPerhaps you should explain what you think \"science has it's basis\nin values\" means. The reason why people DO science is that\nthey value it's results. That does not mean that science has\nit's basis in values. Any more than DES stops working if I stop\nvaluing my privacy.\n\nSee above.\n\n-Ekr\n\n", "(Short reply to Kent Sandvik's post remarking how it is strange that\nsomehow Sufism is related to Islam, as [to him] they seem quite\ndifferent.)\n\nIf one really understands Islam, it is not strange that Sufism is\nassociated with it. In fact, Sufism is (in general) seen as the \"inner\ndimension\" of Islam.\n\nOne of the \"roots\" of the word \"Islam\" is \"submission\" -- \"Islam\"\ndenotes submission to God. Sufism is the most complete submission to\nGod imaginable, in \"annihilating\" oneself in God.\n\n(I am not a Sufi or on the Sufi path, but have read a lot and recently\nhave been discussing a number of things with others who are on the Sufi\npath.)", "\nCould you add some information to 'Non it does not'.\nSay for instance your source of information.\n\nThanks.\n\n\n___________________________________________________________________________", "\nI'm not sure why you don't consider it an option. No one suggests that\nsuch analysis should be left to \"regulators.\" In fact, the \"re-inventing\ngovernment\" movement provides just such a cost/benefit approach to the\nanalysis of public spending. Libertarians would do well to learn more\nabout it. \n\n\nSorry, but it strikes me that it is the only \"feasible\" approach. What is\nnot feasible is a wholesale attack on all government regulation and \nlicensing that treats cutting hair and practicing medicine as equivalent\ntasks.\n\n\nActually, the only areas of public spending above that strike me as \ngenerating substantial support among libertarians are police and defense.\n(It is an interesting aside that as committed as libertarians claim to\nbe to a principle of non-coercion, the only areas of public spending\nthat they frequently support involve hiring people with guns....hmmm...)\n\n\nPerhaps you have. May I suggest that you consider that revolutionaries\nfrequently generate support by acting as protectors of \"geezers,\" \nmothers and children. Governments that ignore such people on the grounds\nthat \"we don't have much to fear\" from them do so at their own peril.\n\njsh", "\n\nEarly to mid June.\n\n\nIf they think the public wants to see it they will carry it. Why not\nwrite them and ask? You can reach them at:\n\n\n F: NATIONAL NEWS MEDIA\n\n\nABC \"World News Tonight\" \"Face the Nation\"\n7 West 66th Street CBS News\nNew York, NY 10023 2020 M Street, NW\n212/887-4040 Washington, DC 20036\n 202/457-4321\n\nAssociated Press \"Good Morning America\"\n50 Rockefeller Plaza ABC News\nNew York, NY 10020 1965 Broadway\nNational Desk (212/621-1600) New York, NY 10023\nForeign Desk (212/621-1663) 212/496-4800\nWashington Bureau (202/828-6400)\n Larry King Live TV\n\"CBS Evening News\" CNN\n524 W. 57th Street 111 Massachusetts Avenue, NW\nNew York, NY 10019 Washington, DC 20001\n212/975-3693 202/898-7900\n\n\"CBS This Morning\" Larry King Show--Radio\n524 W. 57th Street Mutual Broadcasting\nNew York, NY 10019 1755 So. Jefferson Davis Highway\n212/975-2824 Arlington, VA 22202\n 703/685-2175\n\"Christian Science Monitor\"\nCSM Publishing Society \"Los Angeles Times\"\nOne Norway Street Times-Mirror Square\nBoston, MA 02115 Los Angeles, CA 90053\n800/225-7090 800/528-4637\n\nCNN \"MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour\"\nOne CNN Center P.O. Box 2626\nBox 105366 Washington, DC 20013\nAtlanta, GA 30348 703/998-2870\n404/827-1500\n \"MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour\"\nCNN WNET-TV\nWashington Bureau 356 W. 58th Street\n111 Massachusetts Avenue, NW New York, NY 10019\nWashington, DC 20001 212/560-3113\n202/898-7900\n\n\"Crossfire\" NBC News\nCNN 4001 Nebraska Avenue, NW\n111 Massachusetts Avenue, NW Washington, DC 20036\nWashington, DC 20001 202/885-4200\n202/898-7951 202/362-2009 (fax)\n\n\"Morning Edition/All Things Considered\" \nNational Public Radio \n2025 M Street, NW \nWashington, DC 20036 \n202/822-2000 \n\nUnited Press International\n1400 Eye Street, NW\nWashington, DC 20006\n202/898-8000\n\n\"New York Times\" \"U.S. News & World Report\"\n229 W. 43rd Street 2400 N Street, NW\nNew York, NY 10036 Washington, DC 20037\n212/556-1234 202/955-2000\n212/556-7415\n\n\"New York Times\" \"USA Today\"\nWashington Bureau 1000 Wilson Boulevard\n1627 Eye Street, NW, 7th Floor Arlington, VA 22229\nWashington, DC 20006 703/276-3400\n202/862-0300\n\n\"Newsweek\" \"Wall Street Journal\"\n444 Madison Avenue 200 Liberty Street\nNew York, NY 10022 New York, NY 10281\n212/350-4000 212/416-2000\n\n\"Nightline\" \"Washington Post\"\nABC News 1150 15th Street, NW\n47 W. 66th Street Washington, DC 20071\nNew York, NY 10023 202/344-6000\n212/887-4995\n\n\"Nightline\" \"Washington Week In Review\"\nTed Koppel WETA-TV\nABC News P.O. Box 2626\n1717 DeSales, NW Washington, DC 20013\nWashington, DC 20036 703/998-2626\n202/887-7364\n\n\"This Week With David Brinkley\"\nABC News\n1717 DeSales, NW\nWashington, DC 20036\n202/887-7777\n\n\"Time\" magazine\nTime Warner, Inc.\nTime & Life Building\nRockefeller Center\nNew York, NY 10020\n212/522-1212\n", "...", "\nThis sounds a bit high to me. Still higher accelerations have been endured\n*very briefly*, during violent deceleration. If we're talking sustained\nacceleration, I think 30-odd gees has been demonstrated using water immersion.\n\nI doubt that any of this generalizes to another order of magnitude.", "TOWNHOME FOR SALE IN WHEATON\n\tBriarcliffe Lakes of Wheaton\n\tJust North Of Butterfield Road\n\nCall (708) 682-8222 and ask for Harriet Bode (Prudential Realty)\n\nDescription: A very neat, well cared for, low maintenance\n starter coach home in very fine condition located on a\n\t\tcul-de-sac . Just move in. \n\nRooms:(5+1)\t- Eat in kitchen (10.3 X 9.2)\n\t\t- Large master bedroom (12.6 X 12.6)\n\t\t- Spare Bedroom (12.6 X 10)\n\t\t- Dining Room (10.9 X 9)\n\t\t- Living Room (21 X 11.10)\n\t\t- Utility Room (10 X 5.5)\n\t\t- 1.25 Baths\n\t\t\nAppliances: - Stove(gas), refrigerator and dish washer\n - Garage opener\n - Washer and Dryer\n - Garbage Disposal\n - Gas water heater (3 Years Old)\n - Central A/C with DIGITAL Thermostat.\n\nHighlights:\t- Electric Fire Place in living room.\n\t\t- Sliding glass doors which open up to a patio with a\n\t\t secluded back yard area. \n\t - Plenty of storage space with patio storage closet and\n\t\t storage closet in garage. \n\t\t- New ceiling fan in Dining Room,\n - Completely remodeled bathroom (new wallpaper, shower\n\t\t door, shower tile, etc...)\n - Mini blinds for all windows\n - Newer carpets (beige) (About 3 Years old)\n - One car garage and plenty of guest parking\n\nAssociation Fees: $105.90 which includes the following:\n \n - Lawn Maintenance\n - Snow Removal\n - All Exterior building maintenance\n\nTaxes 1992: $1,700", "\nAbout a month ago there was a photo posted on\nalt.binaries.pictures.misc of a 17.5-inch Northern Pike which had been\ncaught on a lure made of 256K SIMMs.\n\n-- ", "\nIs Kratz claiming that he can reliably visually distinguish an M-16\nfrom an AR-15? That he can see the difference between a semi-auto and\na full-auto UZI? That he can see the difference between the various\nversions (some full-auto, some semi-auto only) of the M-11/9?\n\nIf so, I'd love to hear the details, if only because they'll demonstrate\nthat Kratz is blowing smoke.\n\nConsidering that one can design a gun so that it looks just like\nanother gun, yet have very different properties, and that that's\nquite common....\n\nMost kids in my neighborhood were quite young when they figured out\nthat my parents car wasn't much like Richard Petty's, even though it\nlooked just like it (except for the paint job). Things must have been\ndifferent with Kratz.\n\n\nNo, it doesn't, but that's irrelevant. If visual inspection of the\noutside worked, TV would be acceptable, but since it doesn't, the fact\nthat it's just as good as seeing in person doesn't mean much.\n\n-andy gave Kratz a chance to back down on this in private", "\n[re. Conner's questioning of the blissful afterlife as a reason why many\njoined the early Xian church]\n\n\nDo you mean Hyam Maccoby's _The Mythmaker_?\n", "A young French skeptic, who reads (skeptically) the UFO review OVNI\nPresence (O.P.), sent me the following excerpt from an August 92\nissue of this review (R.G. = Robert Galley, French minister of\ndefense in 1974, answering about the Belgian UFO wave):\n\n\"O.P. : Can you conceive that the U.S. could allow themselves to send\n their most modern crafts over foreign territory, with the Belgian\n hierarchy ignoring that ?\"\n\"R.G. : Absolutely ! The best proof which I can give is that, some time\n ago, without informing the French authorities, the U.S. based in\n Germany sent a plane to make photos of Pierrelatte (*). We followed\n this plane, and, after its landing on the Ramstein airport, Colonel X\n got back the shots of Pierrelatte. The U.S. had not informed us...\"\n(*) There is an important military plant of enrichment of uranium at\nPierrelatte (Drome).\n\nWhat kind of plane could it be ? Surely not an SR-71, which our planes\ncould not follow (and still can't)...", "Yes, I know computers and harddisk drives should be ALWAYS on. But what about\nmonitors? They generate a lots of heat. Should I or shouldn't I keep them on\n24 hours a day? Any advice? Thanks. Take care...Paul", "does anyone have Prez. Clinton`s e-mail address.\nthanks a lot \n \n\n\n", "\nActually, this strife in Yugoslavia goes back a long way. Bosinan Muslims,\nin collaboration with the Nazis, did to Serbians after the first world\nwar what Serbs are doing to Muslims now. This is not a fresh case of\nethnic cleansing but just another chapter in the continuing saga\nof intense mutual hatred, destruction,... Not taking sides in this\nperpetual war does not amount to religious bigotry. It could just\nbe helplessness with regards to bringing peace to a region that does\nnot even know the meaning of the word.\n\nSatya Prabhakar", ")\n)\n)>The official and legal term for rape is \"the crime of forcing a FEMALE \n)>to submit to sexual intercourse.\"\n)\n)Please, supply me with some references. I was not aware that all states\n)had the word \"FEMALE\" in the rape statutes. I am sure others are surprised\n)as well. I know thats how it works in practice (nice-n-fair, NOT!!), but\n)was unaware that it was in the statutes as applying to FEMALES only,\n)uniformly throughout the U.S.\n\nI agree mostly with Chris. It is (unfortunately, IMO) true that the *FBI*\nfigures for rape based on the 'uniform crime report' report only female\nrapes. However, some states (such as Illinois) are not tabluated because they\nrefuse to comply with this sexist definition!", "No, not another false alarm, not a \"It'll certainly be done by *next* week\"\nmessage... No, this is the real thing. I repeat, this is *not* a drill!\n\nBatten down the hatches, hide the women, and lock up the cows, XV 3.00 has\nfinally escaped. I was cleaning its cage this morning when it overpowered\nme, broke down the office door, and fled the lab. It was last seen heading\nin the general direction of export.lcs.mit.edu at nearly 30k per second...\n\nIf found, it answers to the name of 'contrib/xv-3.00.tar.Z'.\n\nHave a blast. I'm off to the vacation capital of the U.S.: Waco, Texas.", "From article <1993May12.111030@IASTATE.EDU>, by jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan):\n\n\n\tFirst of all, this is NOT a strife; this is a massacre of innocent\n\tMoslem poeples by the Christian West.\n\n\tSince Ottoman lost the control of Balkans, many tens and hundereds\n\tof millions of Muslem peoples (Turks, Albanians, Bosnians, and others) \n\thave been tortured, raped, massacred, and driven out of their homes\n\tby the Cristians of both the region and Europe. Some lucky ones \n\tescaped to relative safety in Turkiye. The remaining others are being \n\tfinished now by local Christians, the USA, and the rest of Europe.\n\n\tThe Christian West is maintaining a tight arms ambargo on the Muslem\n\tpeoples of Bosnia so they cannot deffend themslves while letting \n\tChristian Serbs and Croats torture, rape, and massacre the innocent \n\tMoslem peoples of Bosnia.", "!: Concerning the proposed newsgroup split, I personally am not in favor of\n!: doing this. I learn an awful lot about all aspects of graphics by reading\n!: this group, from code to hardware to algorithms. I just think making 5\n!: different groups out of this is a wate, and will only result in a few posts\n!: a week per group. I kind of like the convenience of having one big forum\n!: for discussing all aspects of graphics. Anyone else feel this way?\n!: Just curious.\n!\n!Yes. I also like knowing where to go to ask a question without getting\n!hell for putting it in the wrong newsgroup.\n\nI am also against splitting the group. The traffic will decrease\non any given subject but the required net bandwidth will INCREASE\nbecause of multiply cross-postings.\n\nI just went through this with another group I continuously read.\nIt is now almost at the point where it is no longer worth reading.\n\nStrongly suggest NOT doing this.", "\nEr, people are going to make personal attacks on Prof. Denning whether she\nposts here or not. That much should be obvious from looking at the traffic\nover the last few weeks. Therefore I conclude that the existence of personal\nattacks is irrelevant to any decision concerning whether to post.\n\nI suspect that Prof. Denning is actually using the attacks as an excuse for\nnot posting, and that the real reason for the silence is that Clipper is not\nthe sort of proposal any self-respecting cryptographer can support via\nreasoned argument.\n\n\nmathew", "This may be a very naive question but is there any basis for the\nclaim that a CPU will get hotter when a computationally intensive \njob is running? My friend claims that there will be little difference\nin the temperature of an idle CPU and a CPU running a computationally\nintensive job.\n", " \nI'm curious. Are you referring to Koresh as \"the Man\"? Why the \nupper case M? \n \n \nI never claimed to be a spokesman for \"most people\". It is an assumption\non my part that people with normal values and morality would be more \nconcerned with human life than sermon structure. \n \n \nAre burning children part of this very special event? \n \n\n \nWhat about those who do not know the Master's voice? Does the Master\nnot care about them? Eloquent, but corrupt, preaching may be of little\ndifference to you. But I suspect it made a big difference to all of\nthose who died in the compound.\n", "I have already made the clear claim that\n\nDon't mind my saying this but the best example of obfuscation is to\ncondemn without having even your most basic facts straight. If you\nwant some examples, go back and look at your previous posts, where\nyou manage to get your facts wrong about the fatwa and Khomeini's \nsupposed infallibility.", "\nSorry, Fred, but for the purposes under discussion here, I must\ndisagree. Your point is true only in the sense that one cannot argue\nagainst communism by reference to the Chinese or Soviet empires, since\nthose did not represent *true* communism. In judging the practical\nconsequences of Islam as a force to contend with in the world today,\nit is precisely the Khomeini's of the world, the Rushdie-fatwa\nsupporters, and perhaps more importantly, the reaction of the world\nMuslim community to those extremists, that we must look to. Perhaps\nunfortunately from your perspective, most people are not concerned\nwith whether Islam is the right religion for them, or whether the\nQur'an could be used as a guidebook for a hypothetical utopia, but how\nIslam affects the world around them, or what their lives might be like\nif Islam gains in influence. When I consider such possibilities, it\nis with not inconsiderable fear.", "SPEAKING OF VAT: Did anyone see CNN's report yesterday (4/15)? It \nwas quite hillarious (no pun intended). They ran down how a percent tax\nwas added at each stage of manufacturing, graphicaly depicting a stack of \nquarters being added at each wholesale stage. When they got to the final \nstage (the actual retail sale) the small stack of quarters added to the\nlarge stack already there was said to be \"the amount paid by consumers.\"\nIn other words, they completed ignored the fact that at each stage the\ntax would of course be passed on to the next buyer with the retail consumer\npaying the full load.\n\nThese are not journalists--they're lap dogs.", "In <1993Apr15.143320.8618@desire.wright.edu>, demon@desire.wright.edu sez:\n\nThere's this minor thing called \"interest of finality/repose\". What\nit means is that parties aren't dragged into court over and over again\nbecause the losing side \"discovers\" some \"new\" evidence. I don't know\nabout you, Brett, but I suspect GM had the resources to find just\nabout as many expert and fact witnesses as it wanted before the trial\nstarted. Letting them re-open the case now is practically an\ninvitation to every civil litigant on earth to keep an ace in the hole\nin case the verdict goes against him.\n\nBTW, in federal criminal cases, Rule 33 does permit a motion for a new\ntrial \"based on . . . *newly discovered* evidence\" if made within 2\nyears of the verdict. (Emphasis mine.) If you're trying to make a\nbackhanded point about criminal justice in a discussion that has\nlittle to do with criminal trials -- as the estimable David Brock did\nin his amusing WSJ piece last week -- save your breath.\n\n\n\n\nYup. Which is why they shoulda been brought around the first time\nthrough. \n\n\n\nUnless there's some reason to believe that this supposed bias predated\nthe trial (as opposed to being a product of it), and that GM was\nunfairly prevented from discovering it (by venireman concealment or\notherwise), why should GM be allowed to complain?\n", "We are interested in constructing a reentry vehicle to be deployed from a\ntether attached to an orbiting platform. This will be a follow on to our\nsuccesful deployment of a 20 kilometer tether on the March 29 flight of\nSEDS (Small Expendable Deployment System), which released an instrumented\npayload that reentered the earth's atmosphere and burned up over the west\ncoast of Mexico. This time we want to make a payload that can be recovered.\nWe want to build it from \"off the shelf\" technology so as to do this as\nquickly and inexpensively as possible. We want to be able to track the\npayload after it has deployed its parachute. An idea we have is to put the\nsame kind of radio beacon on it that is used with SARSATs (Search and Rescue\nSatellites). It would turn on with the opening of the parachute and aid in\ntracking. These beacons are known in the marine industry as EPIRBs\n(Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacon). They are rugged (they have to\nbe to survive a ship wreck!) and cheap. We have several questions:\n\n1. What is the world authority regulating the use of SARSAT beacons. Are\nthere multiple authorites, i.e. military and civilian?\n\n2. What are the regulations regarding the use of SARSAT signals. Can they\nbe used for one of a kind situations with a long lead time of warning the\nrelevant authorities, or are they strictly reserved for life threatening\nemergencies?\n\n3. What is the coverage of SARSATS? Are they in LEO with only intermittant\ncoverage of a fixed position on the earth, or are they in geosynchronous\norbit?\n\n4. Is there an industry organization governing the use and manufacture of\nthese transponders?\n\nPlease post replies here or send E-mail to me at:\n\tfennell@well.sf.ca.us\nThanak you very much for any assistance you can provide.", "\n\nAtoms are not objective. They aren't even real. What scientists call\nan atom is nothing more than a mathematical model that describes \ncertain physical, observable properties of our surroundings. All\nof which is subjective. \n\nWhat is objective, though, is the approach a scientist \ntakes in discussing his model and his observations. There\nis no objective science. But there is an objective approach\nwhich is subjectively selected by the scientist. Objective\nin this case means a specified, unchanging set of rules that\nhe and his colleagues use to discuss their science.\n\nThis is in contrast to your Objective Morality. There may be an\nobjective approach to subjectively discuss your beliefs on\nmorality. But there exists no objective morality.\n\nAlso, science deals with how we can discuss our observations of \nthe physical world around us. In that the method of discussion\nis objective ( not the science; not the discussion itself ).\n\nScience makes no claims to know the whys or even the hows sometimes\nof what we can observe. It simply gives us a way to discuss our\nsurroundings in a meaningful, consistent way.\n\nI think it was Neils Bohr who said (to paraphrase) Science is what\nwe can _say_ about the physical world.", "\n\n You're being too generous to the communists, I think. In practice,\ncommunism has \"solved\" the problem by killing off anybody who is _too_\nproductive, and who therefore raises embarrassing questions about why the\nrest of the group is a bunch of sluggards. The mass butchery of \"kulaks\"\nin the USSR is a good instance of this.\n A poor second best is to have a neighboring capitalist country to which\npeople of politically incorrect skill and ambition flee. I often wonder\njust what Castro would have done if the Cubans presently in Miami would\nhave been forced to remain in Cuba. Would they have revolted and killed\nhim off, or been killed?\n Best of all is to build a wall locking the citizens of your country in,\nload it up so heavily with attack dogs, barbed wire, and land mines that\nmost people fleeing over it die, and then give everyone the choice of\nobedience, prison, or flight. This would be a bad science-fiction novel,\nif the East Germans hadn't actually done it. The last person to die\ncrossing the wall, as I recall, was an unarmed woman who was shot in the\nback. Erich Honecker was going to go on trial for that, but he fled to\nsocialists in Chile.\n It's good to be kind to one's intellectual opponents, but sometimes\nit's a sheer waste of time.", ": \n: >\n: >> In article <1ptolq$p7e@werple.apana.org.au> petert@zikzak.apana.org.au (Peter\n: >> >\n: >> >Just a thought of mine here:\n: >> >Since an on-hook line is aprox 48-50V, and off-hook it usually drops below 1\n: >> >How about an LED in series with a zener say around 30V.\n: >> >On-hook = LED on\n: >> >Off-hook = LED off.\n: >> >Would this work? If anyone tries/tried it, please let me know.\n: >>\n: >> Aye, there's the rub -- if you draw enough current to light an LED, the\n: >> equipment at the phone company will think you've gone off hook.\n: >> In the on-hook state you're not supposed to draw current.\n: >\n: >Which means you should just use your Digital VoltMeter. You can use an\n: >old VOM but the phone company equipment can detect that and might think\n: >there's something wrong with the cable.\n: >\n: \n: Look Guys, what's the problem here? If you want a light that goes on when \n: the 'phone is *Off* hook, all you need it to run it in *series* with the \n: line, as I mentioned in my previous post. If you want a light that goes on \n: when the 'phone is *on* hook, all you need is a voltage threshold detector.\n\nIf you're going to do the series Diode thing (which is the easiest), just\nmake sure that the LED can take the current (I can't recall it off-hand, but\nit's something like 100mA or more?)\n\nGreggo.", "\n\nNot so. If you are thrown into a cage with a tiger and get mauled, do you\nblame the tiger?", "\nThey'd probably quote Montesque (sp?) who was once asked if Russia\nwas likely to become a democracy any time soon: \"No, because\nRussia is a nation of slaves and the people get what they deserve.\"\nSince he said that, Russia has changed a great deal. But so, \nunfortunately have other nations.", "[Lots of trippy stuff deleted]\n\nWow... What is this guy smoking and WHERE can I GET SOME?\n\nDan", "Archive-name: net-privacy/part2\nLast-modified: 1993/3/3\nVersion: 2.1\n\n\nIDENTITY, PRIVACY, and ANONYMITY on the INTERNET\n================================================\n\n(c) 1993 L. Detweiler. Not for commercial use except by permission\nfrom author, otherwise may be freely copied. Not to be altered. \nPlease credit if quoted.\n\nSUMMARY\n=======\n\nEmail and account privacy, anonymity, file encryption, academic \ncomputer policies, relevant legislation and references, EFF, and \nother privacy and rights issues associated with use of the Internet\nand global networks in general.\n\n(Search for <#.#> for exact section. Search for '_' (underline) for\nnext section.)\n\nPART 2\n====== (this file)\n\nResources\n---------\n\n<4.1> What UNIX programs are related to privacy?\n<4.2> How can I learn about or use cryptography?\n<4.3> What is the cypherpunks mailing list?\n<4.4> What are some privacy-related newsgroups? FAQs?\n<4.5> What is internet Privacy Enhanced Mail (PEM)?\n<4.6> What are other Request For Comments (RFCs) related to privacy?\n<4.7> How can I run an anonymous remailer?\n<4.8> What are references on privacy in email?\n<4.9> What are some email, Usenet, and internet use policies?\n<4.10> What is the MIT ``CROSSLINK'' anonymous message TV program?\n\nMiscellaneous\n-------------\n\n<5.1> What is ``digital cash''?\n<5.2> What is a ``hacker'' or ``cracker''?\n<5.3> What is a ``cypherpunk''?\n<5.4> What is `steganography' and anonymous pools?\n<5.5> What is `security through obscurity'?\n<5.6> What are `identity daemons'?\n<5.7> What standards are needed to guard electronic privacy?\n\nIssues\n------\n\n<6.1> What is the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF)?\n<6.2> Who are Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility (CPSR)?\n<6.3> What was `Operation Sun Devil' and the Steve Jackson Game case?\n<6.4> What is Integrated Services Digital Network (ISDN)?\n<6.5> What is the National Research and Education Network (NREN)?\n<6.6> What is the FBI's proposed Digital Telephony Act?\n<6.7> What other U.S. legislation is related to privacy on networks?\n<6.8> What are references on rights in cyberspace?\n<6.9> What is the Computers and Academic Freedom (CAF) archive?\n\nFootnotes\n---------\n\n<7.1> What is the background behind the Internet?\n<7.2> How is Internet `anarchy' like the English language?\n<7.3> Most Wanted list\n<7.4> Change history\n\n\n* * *\n\n\nRESOURCES\n=========\n\n\n_____\n<4.1> What UNIX programs are related to privacy?\n\n For more information, type `man [cmd]' or `apropos [keyword]' at the\n UNIX shell prompt.\n\n passwd - change password\n finger - obtain information about a remote user\n chfn - change information about yourself obtainable by remote\n users (sometimes `passwd -f')\n chmod - change the rights associated with a file or directory\n umask - (shell) change the default (on creation) file access\n rights\n ls - list the rights associated with files and directories\n xhost - allow or disable access control of particular users to an\n Xwindow server\n last - list the latest user logins on the system and their\n originations\n who - list other users, login/idle times, originations\n w - list other users and what they are running\n xhost - access control list for X Window client use\n xauth - control X Window server authentication\n \n .signature - file in the home directory appended to USENET posts\n .forward - file used to forward email to other accounts\n .Xauthority - file used for X Window server authentication keys\n $SIGNATURE - variable used for name in email and USENET postings\n\n The 'tcpdump' packet-tracing program is loosely based on SMI's\n \"etherfind\" although none of the etherfind code remains. It was\n originally written by Van Jacobson, Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory,\n as part of an ongoing research project to investigate and improve\n tcp and internet gateway performance. A current version is\n available via anonymous ftp from host ftp.ee.lbl.gov (currently at\n address 128.3.254.68) file tcpdump.tar.Z (a compressed Unix tar\n file). This program is subject to the 'standard' Berkeley network\n software copyright.\n\n_____\n<4.2> How can I learn about or use cryptography?\n\n A general introduction to mostly theoretical cryptographic issues,\n especially those frequently discussed in sci.crypt, is available\n in FAQ form:\n\n > Compiled by:\n > cme@ellisun.sw.stratus.com (Carl Ellison)\n > Gwyn@BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn)\n > smb@ulysses.att.com (Steven Bellovin)\n\n NIST (U.S. National Institute for Standards and Technology)\n publishes an introductory paper on cryptography, special\n publication 800-2 ``Public-Key Cryptograhy'' by James Nechvatal\n (April 1991). Available via anonymous FTP from\n csrc.ncsl.nist.gov (129.6.54.11), file pub/nistpubs/800-2.txt. \n Also via available anonymous FTP from wimsey.bc.ca as crypt.txt.Z\n in the crypto directory. Covers technical mathematical aspects\n of encryption such as number theory.\n\n More general information can be found in a FAQ by Paul Fahn of RSA\n Labortories via anonymous FTP from rsa.com in /pub/faq.ps.Z. See\n the `readme' file for information on the `tex' version. Also\n available as hardcopy for $20 from RSA Laboratories, 100 Marine\n Parkway, Redwood City, CA 94065. Send questions to\n faq-editor@rsa.com.\n\n Phil Zimmerman's PGP (Pretty Good Privacy) public-domain package\n for public key encryption is available at numerous sites, and is\n in widespread use over the internet for general UNIX-based file\n encryption (including email). Consult the archie FTP database. \n Also see the newsgroup alt.security.pgp. Mailing list requests\n to info-pgp-request@lucpul.it.luc.edu.\n\n From the RIPEM FAQ by Marc VanHeyningen\n on news.answers:\n\n > RIPEM is a program which performs Privacy Enhanced Mail (PEM)\n > using the cryptographic techniques of RSA and DES. It allows\n > your electronic mail to have the properties of authentication\n > (i.e. who sent it can be confirmed) and privacy (i.e. nobody can\n > read it except the intended recipient.)\n > \n > RIPEM was written primarily by Mark Riordan\n > . Most of the code is in the public domain,\n > except for the RSA routines, which are a library called RSAREF\n > licensed from RSA Data Security Inc.\n > \n > RIPEM is available via anonymous FTP to citizens and permanent\n > residents in the U.S. from rsa.com; cd to rsaref/ and read the\n > README file for info.\n > \n > RIPEM, as well as some other crypt stuff, has its `home site' on\n > rpub.cl.msu.edu, which is open to non-anonymous FTP for users in\n > the U.S. and Canada who are citizens or permanent residents. To\n > find out how to obtain access, ftp there, cd to pub/crypt/, and\n > read the file GETTING_ACCESS.\n\n Note: cryptography is generally not well integrated into email yet\n and some system proficiency is required by users to utilize it.\n\n_____\n<4.3> What is the cypherpunks mailing list?\n\n Eric Hughes runs the `cypherpunk' mailing list\n dedicated to ``discussion about technological defenses for privacy\n in the digital domain.'' Send email to\n cypherpunks-request@toad.com to be added or subtracted from the\n list. From the charter:\n\n > The most important means to the defense of privacy is encryption.\n > To encrypt is to indicate the desire for privacy. But to encrypt\n > with weak cryptography is to indicate not too much desire for\n > privacy. Cypherpunks hope that all people desiring privacy will\n > learn how best to defend it.\n\n_____\n<4.4> What are some privacy-related newsgroups? FAQs?\n \n Newsgroups\n ==========\n\n alt.comp.acad-freedom.news\n alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk \n --------------------------\n Moderated and unmoderated issues related to academic freedom and\n privacy at universities. Documented examples of violated\n privacy in e.g. email. Documented examples of `censorship' as\n in e.g. limiting USENET groups local availability.\n\n alt.cyberpunks\n --------------\n Virtual reality, (science) fiction by William Gibson and Bruce \n Sterling, cyberpunk in the mainstream.\n \n alt.hackers\n -----------\n USENET Network News Transfer Protocol (NNTP) posting mechanisms, \n Simple Mail Transfer Protocol (SMTP), `obligatory hack' reports.\n\n alt.privacy\n -----------\n General privacy issues involving taxpaying, licensing, social\n security numbers, etc.\n \n alt.security \n comp.security.misc\n ------------------\n Computer related security issues. FAQ in news.answers below.\n \n alt.security.pgp\n alt.security.ripem\n ----------------\n Dedicated to discussing public domain cryptographic software\n packages: PGP, or ``Pretty Good Privacy'' Software developed by\n Phil Zimmerman for public key encryption, and RIPEM by Mark\n Riordan for public key and DES encryption.\n \n comp.society.privacy\n --------------------\n Privacy issues associated with computer technologies. Examples:\n caller identification, social security numbers, credit\n applications, mailing lists, etc. Moderated.\n \n comp.eff.news\n comp.eff.talk\n -------------\n Moderated and unmoderated groups associated with the Electronic\n Frontier Foundation started by Mitch Kapor for protecting civil\n and constitutional rights in the electronic realm.\n \n news.admin\n news.admin.policy\n -----------------\n Concerns of news administrators. NNTP standards and mechanisms.\n \n news.lists\n ----------\n USENET traffic distributions. Most frequent posters, most\n voluminous groups, most active sites, etc.\n \n sci.crypt\n ---------\n Considers scientific and social issues of cryptography. \n Examples: legitimate use of PGP, public-key patents, DES,\n cryptographic security, cypher breaking, etc.\n \n\n FAQs\n ====\n\n FAQs or ``Frequently-Asked Questions'' are available in the\n newsgroups *.answers or via anonymous FTP to pit-manager.mit.edu\n [18.172.1.27] (also rtfm.mit.edu) from the directory\n /pub/usenet/news.answers/[x] where [x] is the archive name. This\n FAQ is archived in the file `net-privacy'. Others are:\n\n network-info/part1 \n ------------------\n Sources of information about the Internet and how to connect to\n it, through the NSF or commercial vendors.\n \n alt-security-faq\n ----------------\n Computer related security issues arising in alt.security and\n comp.security.misc, mostly UNIX related.\n \n ssn-privacy \n -----------\n Privacy issues associated with the use of the U.S. Social\n Security number (SSN).\n \n pdial\n -----\n Public dialup internet accounts list.\n \n college-email/part1\n -------------------\n How to find email addresses for undergraduate and graduate\n students, faculty and staff at various colleges and\n universities.\n \n ripem/faq\n ---------\n Information on RIPEM, a program for public key mail encryption\n officially sanctioned by Public Key Partners Inc., the company\n that owns patents on public key cryptography.\n \n unix-faq/faq/part1\n ------------------\n Frequently-asked questions about UNIX, including information on\n `finger' and terminal spying.\n\n distributions/*\n ---------------\n Known geographic, university, and network distributions.\n\n_____\n<4.5> What is internet Privacy Enhanced Mail (PEM)?\n\n Internet drafts on Privacy Enhanced Mail (PEM) describe a standard\n under revision for six years delineating the official protocols for\n email encryption. The standard has only recently stabilized and\n implementations are being developed.\n\n - RFC-1421: ``Privacy Enhancement for Internet Electronic Mail: \n Part I: Message Encryption and Authentication Procedures.'' J.\n Linn <104-8456@mcimail.com>\n\n - RFC-1422: ``Privacy Enhancement for Internet Electronic Mail: Part\n II: Certificate-Based Key Management'' S. Kent \n\n - RFC-1424: ``Privacy Enhancement for Internet Electronic Mail: \n Part IV: Key Certification and Related Services'' B. Kaliski\n \n\n - RFC-1423: ``Privacy Enhancement for Internet Electronic Mail: Part\n III: Algorithms, Modes, and Identifiers'' D. Balenson\n \n\n Send email to pem-info@tis.com for more information. See ``RFCs \n related to privacy'' for information on how to obtain RFCs.\n \n_____\n<4.6> What are other Requests For Comments (RFCs) related to privacy?\n\n RFC-822: SMTP, Simple Mail Transfer Protocol\n RFC-977: NNTP, Network News Transfer Protocol\n RFC-1036: Standard for interchange of network news messages\n RFC-1208: Glossary of Networking Terms\n RFC-1207: Answers to ``experienced Internet user'' questions\n RFC-1206: Answers to ``new Internet user'' questions\n RFC-1355: Privacy issues in Network Information center databases\n\n \n RFC-1177 is ``FYI: Answers to commonly asked ``new internet user'' \n questions, and includes: basic terminology on the Internet (TCP/IP,\n SMTP, FTP), internet organizations such as IAB (Internet\n Activities Board) and IETF (Internet Enbgineering Task Force), and\n a glossary of terms. Also from ftp.eff.org:\n /pub/internet-info/internet.q.\n\n > RFCs can be obtained via FTP from NIC.DDN.MIL, with the pathname\n > RFC:RFCnnnn.TXT or RFC:RFCnnnn.PS (where `nnnn' refers to the\n > number of the RFC). Login with FTP, username `anonymous' and\n > password `guest'. The NIC also provides an automatic mail\n > service for those sites which cannot use FTP. Address the\n > request to SERVICE@NIC.DDN.MIL and in the subject field of the\n > message indicate the RFC number, as in `Subject: RFC nnnn' (or\n > `Subject: RFC nnnn.PS' for PostScript RFCs).\n >\n > RFCs can also be obtained via FTP from NIS.NSF.NET. Using FTP,\n > login with username `anonymous' and password `guest'; then\n > connect to the RFC directory (`cd RFC'). The file name is of the\n > form RFCnnnn.TXT-1 (where `nnnn' refers to the number of the\n > RFC). The NIS also provides an automatic mail service for those\n > sites which cannot use FTP. Address the request to\n > NIS-INFO@NIS.NSF.NET and leave the subject field of the message\n > blank. The first line of the text of the message must be `SEND\n > RFCnnnn.TXT-1', where nnnn is replaced by the RFC number.\n \n_____\n<4.7> How can I run an anonymous remailer?\n\n Cypherpunk remailer source is at soda.berkeley.edu in the\n /pub/cypherpunks directory. It's written in PERL, and is\n relatively easy to install (no administrative rights are required).\n Karl Barrus has more information and\n modifications. Also, most remailer operators mentioned above are\n amenable to discussing features, problems, and helping new sites\n become operational. Address all points in the section\n ``responsibities of anonymous use'' in this document prior to\n advertising your service. You should be committed to the long-term\n stability of the site and avoid running one surreptitiously.\n\n_____\n<4.8> What are references on privacy in email?\n\n\n Brown, Bob. ``EMA Urges Users to Adopt Policy on E-mail Privacy.'' \n Network World (Oct 29, 1990), 7.44: 2.\n \n Bairstow, Jeffrey. ``Who Reads your Electronic Mail?'' Electronic\n Business (June 11, 1990) 16 (11): 92.\n\n ``Electronic Envelopes - the uncertainty of keeping e-mail private''\n Scientific American, February 1993.\n\n ftp.eff.org\n ===========\n\n /pub/eff/papers/email_privacy\n ---\n Article on the rights of email privacy. by Ruel T. Hernandez.\n\n /pub/academic/law/privacy.email\n ---\n ``Computer Electronic Mail and Privacy'', an edited version of a\n law school seminar paper by Ruel T. Hernadez.\n\n /pub/eff/papers/email-privacy-biblio-2\n ---\n Compilation of bibliography on E-Mail and its privacy issues (part\n 2 of the work). Compiled by Stacy B. Veeder (12/91).\n\n /pub/eff/papers/email-privacy-research\n ---\n The author at Digital Research tried to formalize their employee\n privacy policy on E-Mail. The casesightings are divided into two\n groups: US Constitutional law, and California law.\n\n /pub/eff/papers/company-email\n ---\n Formulating a Company Policy on Access to and Disclosure of\n Electronic Mail on Company Computer Systems by David R. Johnson\n and John Podesta for the Electronic Mail Assocation\n\n /pub/cud/alcor\n ---\n Information on Alcor Co., an e-mail privacy suit.\n\n /pub/academic/law/privacy.email\n ---\n Email privacy search at Berkeley.\n\n_____\n<4.9> What are some email, Usenet, and internet use policies?\n\n The Computer Policy and Critiques Archive is a collection of the\n computer policies of many schools and networks, run by the\n Computers and Academic Freedom group on the Electronic Frontier\n Foundation FTP site. The collection also includes critiques of some\n of the policies.\n\n > If you have gopher, the archive is browsable with the command:\n > gopher -p academic/policies gopher.eff.org\n > \n > The archive is also accessible via anonymous ftp and email. Ftp\n > to ftp.eff.org (192.88.144.4). It is in directory\n > `pub/academic/policies'. For email access, send email to\n > archive-server@eff.org. Include the line:\n > \n > send acad-freedom/policies \n > \n > where is a list of the files that you want. File\n > README is a detailed description of the items in the directory.\n > \n > For more information, to make contributions, or to report typos\n > contact J.S. Greenfield (greeny@eff.org). Directory `widener'\n > contains additional policies (but not critiques).\n\n\n ftp.eff.org\n ===========\n \n /pub/cud/networks\n ---\n Acceptable Use Policies for various networks, including CompuServe\n (file `compuserve'), NSFNET (file `nsfnet') with information on\n research and commercial uses. See /pub/cud/networks/index.\n\n /pub/cud/networks/email\n ---\n Policies from various sysadmins about how they handle the issue of\n email privacy, control, and abuse, compiled by T. Hooper \n .\n \n /pub/cud/schools/\n ---\n Computer use policies of a number of schools. See schools/Index\n for a full list and description.\n\n \n Commentary\n ==========\n\n /pub/academic/faq/policy.best\n ---\n Opinions on the best academic computer policies.\n\n\n /pub/academic/faq/email.policies\n ---\n Do any universities treat email and computer files as private?\n\n /pub/academic/faq/netnews.writing\n ---\n Policies on what users write on Usenet.\n\n /pub/academic/faq/netnews.reading\n ---\n Policies on what users read on Usenet: should my university remove\n (or restrict) Netnews newsgroups because some people find them\n offensive?\n\n /pub/academic/faq/policy\n ---\n What guidance is there for creating or evaluating a university's\n academic computer policy?\n\n______\n<4.10> What is the MIT ``CROSSLINK'' anonymous message TV program?\n\n > CROSSLINK is an anonymous message system run on MIT Student\n > Cable TV-36. It provides an anonymous medium through which MIT\n > students can say those things they might otherwise find\n > difficult, inconvenient or impossible to say in person. It's\n > also a way to send fun or totally random messages to your\n > friends over the air. It is similar to the anonymous message\n > pages found in many college newspapers, except that it's\n > electronic in nature and it's free.\n\n Messages can be posted to the service via email. For more\n information send email to crosslink@athena.mit.edu.\n\n\nMISCELLANEOUS\n=============\n\n_____\n<5.1> What is ``digital cash''?\n\n With digital encryption and authentication technologies, the\n possibility of a widespread digital cash system may someday be\n realized. A system utilizing codes sent between users and banks\n (similar to today's checking system except entirely digital) may\n be one approach. The issues of cryptography, privacy, and\n anonymity are closely associated with transfer of cash in an\n economy. See the article in Scientific American by David Chaum\n (~Dec.1992).\n\n An experimental digital bank is run by Karl Barrus\n based on suggestions by Hal Finney on the\n cypherpunks mailing list. To use the server send mail to\n elee7h5@rosebud.ee.uh.edu message with the following text:\n\n ::\n command: help\n \n user@host\n\n where `user@host' is your email address.\n \n \n_____\n<5.2> What is a ``hacker'' or ``cracker''?\n\n These terms arouse strong feelings by many on their meaning,\n especially on the internet. In the general news media in the past\n a person who uses computers and networks to malicious ends (such as\n breaking into systems) has been referred to as a hacker, but most\n internet users prefer the term ``cracker'' for this. Instead, a\n ``hacker'' is perceived as a benign but intensely ambitious,\n curious, and driven computer user who explores obscure areas of a\n system, for example---something of a proud electronic pioneer and\n patriot. This is the sense intended in this document. See also\n the ``Hacker's Dictionary'' and the FAQ `alt-security-faq'.\n \n \n_____\n<5.3> What is a ``cypherpunk''?\n\n From the charter of the cypherpunk mailing list:\n\n > Cypherpunks assume privacy is a good thing and wish there were\n > more of it. Cypherpunks acknowledge that those who want privacy\n > must create it for themselves and not expect governments,\n > corporations, or other large, faceless organizations to grant\n > them privacy out of beneficence. Cypherpunks know that people\n > have been creating their own privacy for centuries with whispers,\n > envelopes, closed doors, and couriers. Cypherpunks do not seek\n > to prevent other people from speaking about their experiences or\n > their opinions.\n\n See information on the cypherpunk mailing list below.\n\n See also the CryptoAnarchist Manifesto and the Cryptography Glossary\n in soda.berkeley.edu:/pub/cypherpunks.\n\n_____\n<5.4> What is `steganography' and anonymous pools?\n\n Closely associated with encryption is `steganography' or the\n techniques for not only pursuing private (encrypted) communication\n but concealing the very existence of the communication itself. \n Many new possibilities in this area are introduced with the\n proliferation of computer technology. For example, it is possible\n to encode messages in the least-significant bits of images,\n typically the most 'noisy'. In addition, when such an item is\n posted in a public place (such as a newsgroup), virtually\n untraceable communication can take place between sender and\n receiver. For steganographic communications in the electronic\n realm one another possibility is setting up a mailing list where\n individual messages get broadcast to the entire list and individual\n users decode particular messages with their unique key. An\n anonymous pool has been set up by Miron Cuperman\n (miron@extropia.wimsey.com) for experiments. Send email to\n with one of the following\n commands in the subject line:\n\n subscribe\n unsubscribe\n help\n\n_____\n<5.5> What is `security through obscurity'?\n\n `Security through obscurity' refers to the attempt to gain\n protection from system weaknesses by hiding sensitive information\n or programs relating to them. For example, a company may not make\n public information on its software's encryption techniques to evade\n `attacks' based on knowledge of it. Another example would be\n concealing data on the existence of security holes or bugs in\n operating systems. Or, some reliance may be made on the fact that\n some standard or mechanism with potential problems is serious\n because they are ``not widely known'' or ``not widely used.'' This\n argument is occasionally applied to mechanisms for email and Usenet\n posting `forgery'. `Security through obscurity' is regarded as a\n very feeble technique at best and inappropriate and ineffective at\n worst (also called the ``head-in-the-sand approach''). See the FAQ\n for alt.security. \n \n Some remarks of John Perry Barlow, cofounder of the Electronic\n Frontier Foundation, directed to NSA agents at the First\n International Symposium on National Security & National\n Competitiveness held in McLean, Virginia Dec. 1, 1992:\n\n > Digitized information is very hard to stamp classified or keep\n > contained. ... This stuff is incredibly leaky and volatile. It's\n > almost a life form in its ability to self-propagate. If\n > something hits the Net and it's something which people on there\n > find interesting it will spread like a virus of the mind. I\n > believe you must simply accept the idea that we are moving into\n > an environment where any information which is at all interesting\n > to people is going to get out. And there will be very little\n > that you can do about it. This is not a bad thing in my view,\n > but you may differ...\n\n_____\n<5.6> What are `identity daemons'?\n \n RFC-931 describes a protocol standard that allows UNIX programs to\n query a remote user's login name after connection to a local\n communication socket (a connection of this type is established\n during FTP and TELNET sessions, for example). The standard is not\n widely supported, perhaps 10% of internet sites currently implement\n it but the number is increasing. The mechanism is detrimental to\n anonymity. Regular users cannot disable it but system\n adminstrators can circumvent it. This standard may represent a\n trend toward greater authentication mechanisms.\n\n_____\n<5.7> What new standards are needed to guard electronic privacy?\n\n\n Remailing/Posting\n -----------------\n \n - Stable, secure, protected, officially sanctioned and permitted,\n publicly and privately operated anonymous servers and hubs.\n - Official standards for encryption and anonymity in mail and USENET\n postings.\n - Truly anonymous protocols with source and destination information\n obscured or absent and hidden routing mechanisms (chaining,\n encrypted addresses, etc.)\n - Standards for anonymous email addressing, embedding files, and\n remailer site chaining.\n \n General\n -------\n \n - Recognition of anonymity, cryptography, and related privacy\n shields as legitimate, useful, desirable, and crucial by the\n general public and their governments.\n - Widespread use and implementation of these technologies \n by systems designers into\n hardware, software, and standards, implemented `securely,'\n `seamlessly,' and `transparently'.\n - General shift of use, dependence, and reliance to means other than\n wiretapping and electronic surveillance by law enforcement\n agencies.\n - Publicity, retraction, and dissolution of laws and government\n agencies opposed to privacy, replaced by structures dedicated to\n strengthening and protecting it.\n\n\nISSUES\n======\n\n_____\n<6.1> What is the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF)?\n\n From ftp.eff.org:/pub/EFF/mission_statement:\n\n > A new world is arising in the vast web of digital, electronic\n > media which connect us. Computer-based communication media like\n > electronic mail and computer conferencing are becoming the basis\n > of new forms of community. These communities without a single,\n > fixed geographical location comprise the first settlements on an\n > electronic frontier.\n > \n > While well-established legal principles and cultural norms give\n > structure and coherence to uses of conventional media like\n > newspapers, books, and telephones, the new digital media do not\n > so easily fit into existing frameworks. Conflicts come about as\n > the law struggles to define its application in a context where\n > fundamental notions of speech, property, and place take\n > profoundly new forms. People sense both the promise and the\n > threat inherent in new computer and communications technologies,\n > even as they struggle to master or simply cope with them in the\n > workplace and the home.\n > \n > The Electronic Frontier Foundation has been established to help\n > civilize the electronic frontier; to make it truly useful and\n > beneficial not just to a technical elite, but to everyone; and to\n > do this in a way which is in keeping with our society's highest\n > traditions of the free and open flow of information and\n > communication.\n \n EFF was started by the multimillionaire Mitchell Kapor, founder of\n Lotus software, and John Barlow, lyricist for the Grateful Dead\n rock band. A highly publicized endeavor of the organization\n involved the legal defense of Steve Jackson Games after an FBI\n raid and an accompanying civil suit (see section on ``Steve\n Jackson Games''). The foundation publishes EFF News (EFFector\n Online) electronically, send requests to effnews-request@eff.org.\n \n In a letter to Mitchell Kapor from the Chairman of the Subcommittee\n with primary jurisdiction over telecommunications policy dated\n November 5, 1991, Representative Edward J. Markey complemented\n Mitchell Kapor on his ``insights on the development of a national\n public information infrastructure'' which ``were appreciated greatly\n by myself and the Members of the Subcommittee'' (complete text in \n ftp.eff.com:/pub/pub-infra/1991-12):\n\n > ...we need to pursue policies that encourage the Bell companies to\n > work with other sectors of the communications industry to create\n > a consumer-oriented, public information network. Please let me or\n > my staff know what policies you and others in the computer\n > industry believe would best serve the public interest in creating\n > a reasonably priced, widely available network in which\n > competition is open and innovation rewarded. I also want to\n > learn what lessons from the computer industry over the past ten\n > to fifteen years should apply to the current debate on\n > structuring the information and communications networks of the\n > future....I ask your help in gaining input from the computer\n > industry so that the Subcommittee can shape policies that will\n > bring this spirit of innovation and entrepreneurship to the\n > information services industry. \n\n ftp.eff.org\n ===========\n \n /pub/eff/about-eff\n ---\n A file of basic information about EFF including goals, mission,\n achievements, and current projects. Contains a membership form.\n\n /pub/eff/mission-statement\n ---\n EFF mission statement.\n\n /pub/eff/historical/founding-announcement\n ---\n EFF founding press release.\n\n /pub/eff/historical/eff-history\n ---\n John Perry Barlow's ``Not Terribly Brief History of the EFF'' (July\n 10, 1990). How EFF was conceived and founded, major legal cases,\n and the organizational directions.\n\n /pub/eff/historical/legal-case-summary\n ---\n EFF legal case summary.\n\n\n_____\n<6.2> Who are Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility (CPSR)?\n\n The Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility have been\n working to protect and promote electronic civil liberties issues\n since ~1982. The group has three offices (Palo Alto, Cambridge,\n Washington, DC) and 20 chapters. It is involved in litigation\n against the FBI, The NSA, NIST, the Secret Service and other other\n U.S. government agencies to declassify and provide documentation\n on issues such as Operation Sundevil, the FBI wiretap proposal,\n NSA's interference in crypography, the breakup of the 2600 raid in\n Arlington, Va in Nov 1992. Members speak frequently in front on\n Congress, state legislators and public utility commissions to\n testify on privacy, information policy, computer security, and\n caller identification.\n\n CPSR has created an extensive Internet Privacy library available\n via FTP, Gopher, WAIS, and email at cpsr.org, currently comprising\n the largest collection of privacy documents on the internet. For\n more information, anonymous FTP cpsr.org:/cpsr/.\n\n\n (Thanks to Dave Banisar for contributions\n here.)\n\n_____\n<6.3> What was `Operation Sundevil' and the Steve Jackson Game case?\n\n In the early 1990's a fear spread among U.S. law enforcement agencies\n on the illicit activities of `hackers' and `phreakers' involved in\n such activities as credit card fraud and long-distance call thievery.\n \n (see ftp.eff.org:/pub/SJG/General_Information/EFFector1.04):\n\n > `Operation Sundevil,' the Phoenix-inspired crackdown of May\n > 8,1990, concentrated on telephone code-fraud and credit-card\n > abuse, and followed this seizure plan with some success. \n > [Bulletin Board Systems] went down all over America, terrifying\n > the underground and swiftly depriving them of at least some of\n > their criminal instruments. It also saddled analysts with some\n > 24,000 floppy disks, and confronted harried Justice Department\n > prosecutors with the daunting challenge of a gigantic nationwide\n > hacker show-trial involving highly technical issues in dozens of\n > jurisdictions.\n\n Massive `show-trials' never materialized, although isolated\n instances of prosecution were pursued. The movement reached a\n crescendo in Texas with the highly publicized case of illegal\n search and seizure involving the Steve Jackson Games company of\n Austin Texas on March 1, 1990. From the column GURPS' LABOUR LOST\n by Bruce Sterling in Fantasy and Science\n Fiction Magazine:\n\n > In an early morning raid with an unlawful and unconstitutional\n > warrant, agents of the Secret Service conducted a search of the\n > SJG office. When they left they took a manuscript being prepared\n > for publication, private electronic mail, and several computers,\n > including the hardware and software of the SJG Computer Bulletin\n > Board System. Yet Jackson and his business were not only\n > innocent of any crime, but never suspects in the first place. \n > The raid had been staged on the unfounded suspicion that\n > somewhere in Jackson's office there `might be' a document\n > compromising the security of the 911 telephone system.\n\n FBI agents involved in the seizure were named in a civil suit filed\n on behalf of Steve Jackson Games by The Electronic Frontier\n Foundation. See information on EFF below. From an article by Joe\n Abernathy in the Houston Chronicle ~Feb 1, 1993:\n \n > AUSTIN -- An electronic civil rights case against the Secret\n > Service closed Thursday with a clear statement by federal\n > District Judge Sam Sparks that the Service failed to conduct a\n > proper investigation in a notorious computer crime crackdown,\n > and went too far in retaining custody of seized equipment. \n > \n > Secret Service Special Agent Timothy Foley of Chicago, who was in\n > charge of three Austin computer search-and-seizures on March 1,\n > 1990, that led to the lawsuit, stoically endured Spark's rebuke\n > over the Service's poor investigation and abusive computer\n > seizure policies. While the Service has seized dozens of\n > computers since the crackdown began in 1990, this is the first\n > case to challenge the practice. \n > \n > Sparks grew visibly angry when it was established that the Austin\n > science fiction magazine and game book publisher was never\n > suspected of a crime, and that agents did not do even marginal\n > research to establish a criminal connection between the firm and\n > the suspected illegal activities of an employee, or to determine\n > that the company was a publisher. Indeed, agents testified that\n > they were not even trained in the Privacy Protection Act at the\n > special Secret Service school on computer crime. \n > \n > \"How long would it have taken you, Mr. Foley, to find out what\n > Steve Jackson Games did, what it was?\" asked Sparks. \"An hour? \n > \n > \"Was there any reason why, on March 2, you could not return to\n > Steve Jackson Games a copy, in floppy disk form, of everything\n > taken? \n > \n > \"Did you read the article in Business Week magazine where it had\n > a picture of Steve Jackson -- a law-abiding, tax-paying citizen\n > -- saying he was a computer crime suspect? \n > \n > \"Did it ever occur to you, Mr. Foley, that seizing this material\n > could harm Steve Jackson economically?\" \n > \n > Foley replied, \"No, sir,\" but the judge offered his own answer. \n > \n > \"You actually did, you just had no idea anybody would actually go\n > out and hire a lawyer and sue you.\" \n > \n > More than $200,000 has been spent by the Electronic Frontier \n > Foundation in bringing the case to trial. The EFF was founded by \n > Mitchell Kapor amid a civil liberties movement sparked in large\n > part by the Secret Service computer crime crackdown. \n\n\n ftp.eff.org\n ===========\n \n /pub/cud/papers/sundevil\n ---\n A collection of information on Operation SunDevil by the Epic\n nonprofit publishing project. Everything you wanted to know but\n could never find.\n\n /pub/cud/papers/sj-resp\n ---\n Steve Jackson's response to the charges against him.\n\n_____\n<6.4> What is Integrated Services Digital Network (ISDN)?\n\n ISDN is a high-speed data communications standard that utilizes\n existing copper telephone lines, and is a possible inexpensive and\n intermediate alternative to laying fiber optic cable for phone\n networks. The speeds involved may be sufficient for audio and\n video transmission applications. G. V. der Leun in the file\n ftp.eff.org: /pub/pub-infra/1991-11:\n\n > Telecommunications in the United States is at a crossroads. With\n > the Regional Bell Operating Companies now free to provide\n > content, the shape of the information networking is about to be\n > irrevocably altered. But will that network be the open,\n > accessible, affordable network that the American public needs? \n > You can help decide this question.\n > \n > The Electronic Frontier Foundation recently presented a plan to\n > Congress calling for the immediate deployment of a national\n > network based on existing ISDN technology, accessible to anyone\n > with a telephone connection, and priced like local voice service.\n > We believe deployment of such a platform will spur the\n > development of innovative new information services, and maximize\n > freedom, competitiveness, and civil liberties throughout the\n > nation.\n > \n > The EFF is testifying before Congress and the FCC; making\n > presentations to public utility commisions from Massachusetts to\n > California; and meeting with representatives from telephone\n > companies, publishers, consumer advocates, and other stakeholders\n > in the telecommunications policy debate.\n > \n > The EFF believes that participants on the Internet, as pioneers on\n > the electronic frontier, need to have their voices heard at this\n > critical moment.\n\n To automatically receive a description of the platform and details,\n send mail to archive-server@eff.org, with the following line:\n\n send documents open-platform-overview\n\n or send mail to eff@eff.org. See also the Introduction to the EFF\n Open Platform Proposal in ftp.eff.org:/pub/pub-infra/1991-02.\n\n \n References\n ==========\n\n ``Digital Data On Demand.'' MacWorld, 2/82 (page 224).\n ---\n 56Kbps vs. ISDN services and products. See comments by J. Powers\n in ftp.eff.org:pub/pub-infra/1992-02.\n\n ``Telephone Service That Rings of the Future.'' By Joshua Quittner. \n Newsday, Tue, Jan 7 1992.\n ---\n Implications of ISDN for the masses, written in popular science\n style. John Perry Barlow (cofounder EFF). Regional telephone\n companies (Ohio Bell). ISDN as ``Technological Rorschach Test.''\n Anecdotes about McDonald's, Barbara Bush teleconferencing. See\n complete text in ftp.eff.org:/pub/pub-infra/1992-01.\n \n ftp.eff.org:/pub/pub-infra/\n ---\n Files 1991-11 through 1992-05 containing email from the EFF public\n infrastructure group organized by month. Opinions and facts on\n the pros and cons of ISDN, Integrated Services Digital Network. \n Uses of ISDN (phone video, audio, etc.) Japanese model.\n Alternatives to ISDN (HDSL, ADSL, fiber optics). Technical \n specifications of ISDN, implementation details, cost issues,\n political obstacles, (RBOC, Regional Bell Operating Companies or\n `Baby Bells', e.g. NET, New England Telephone). Influencing\n development of future networks (e.g. ISDN and NREN, National\n Research and Education Network), encouraging competition (cable\n TV systems). Press releases and news articles. Letter from Rep.\n E. J. Markey to M. Kapor.\n\n_____\n<6.5> What is the National Research and Education Network (NREN)?\n\n The Nation Research and Education Network was introduced in\n legislation cosponsored by Sen. A. Gore to promote high-speed data\n network infrastructure augmenting the internet with up to 50 times\n faster transmission rates. The bill passed the House on November\n 20, 1991, the Senate on November 22, 1991, and was signed by the\n President on December 9, 1991.\n\n ftp.eff.org\n ===========\n \n /pub/EFF/legislation/nren-bill-text\n ---\n The complete text of the House-Senate compromise version of S.\n 272, the High-Performance Computing Act.\n\n /pub/internet-info/gore.bill\n ---\n 102nd congress 1st Session. Text of high performance computing\n bill cosponsored by Sen. A. Gore.\n\n\n /pub/EFF/legislation/gore-infrastructure-bill\n ---\n The text of S.2937, the Information Infrastructure and Technology\n Act of 1992 introduced by Senator Gore to expand Federal efforts\n to develop technologies for applications of high-performance\n computing and high-speed networking, and to provide for a\n coordinated Federal program to accelerate development and\n deployment of an advanced information infrastructure.\n\n U.S. SAID TO PLAY FAVORITES IN PROMOTING NATIONWIDE COMPUTER NETWORK\n By John Markoff, N.Y. Times (~18 Dec 91).\n ---\n President Bush's legislation for natiowide computer data\n `superhighway.' IBM-MCI venture as monopoly destructive to fair\n competition and innovation? National Science Foundation NSFnet.\n complete text in /pub/pub-infra/1991-12.\n\n Commentary\n ==========\n\n /pub/academic/statements/nren.privacy.cpsr\n ---\n ``Proposed Privacy Guidelines for the NREN'' -- Statement of Marc\n Rotenberg, Washington Director Computer Professionals for Social\n Responsibility (CPSR).\n\n /pub/internet-info/cisler.nren\n ---\n The National Research and Education Network: Two meetings Steve\n Cisler, Senior Scientist Apple Computer Library December 17, 1990\n Summary of meetings exploring educational issues of NREN by\n diverse members of academia and industry.\n\n /pub/internet-info/privatized.nren\n ---\n Feb. 14 1991 essay by M. Kapor advocating advantages of a private\n National Public Network, and specific recommendations for open\n NREN policies encouraging competition.\n\n\n /pub/eff/papers/netproposition\n ---\n An FYI about the proposed NREN setup.\n\n_____\n<6.6> What is the FBI's proposed Digital Telephony Act?\n\n ``Providers of electronic communication services and private branch\n exchange operators shall provide within the United States\n capability and capacity for the government to intercept wire and\n electronic communications when authorized by law...''\n \n From `BBS Legislative Watch: FBIs Wiretapping Proposal Thwarted' by\n S. Steele in Boardwatch Magazine, Feb. 1993, p. 19-22:\n \n > In a move that worried privacy experts, software manufacturers and\n > telephone companies, the FBI proposed legislation to amend the\n > Communications Act of 1934 to make it easier for the Bureau to\n > perform electronic wiretapping. The proposed legislation,\n > entitled 'Digital Telephony,' would have required communications\n > service providers and hardware manufacturers to make their\n > systems 'tappable' by providing 'back doors' through which law\n > enforcement officers could intercept communications. Furthermore,\n > this capability would have been provided undetectably, while the\n > communications was in progress, exclusive of any communications\n > between other parties, regardless of the mobility of the target\n > of the FBI's investigation, and without degradation of service.\n > \n > ...under the proposal, the Department of Justice (DOJ) can keep\n > communications products off the market if it determines that\n > these products do not meet the DOJ's own ... guidelines. This\n > [could] result in increased costs and reduced competitiveness for\n > service providers and equipment manufacturers, since they will be\n > unlikely to add any features that may result in a DOJ rejection\n > of their entire product. ...the FBI proposal suggests that the\n > cost of this wiretapping 'service' to the Bureau would have to be\n > borne by the service provider itself...\n > \n > The Electronic Frontier Foundation organized a broad coalition of\n > public interest and industry groups, from Computer Professionals\n > for Social Responsibilty (CPSR) and the ACLU to AT&T and Sun\n > Microsystems, to oppose the legislation. A white paper produced\n > by the EFF and ratified by the coalition, entitled, `An Analysis\n > of the FBI Digital Telephony Proposal,' was widely distributed\n > throughout the Congress. ... The Justice Department lobbied hard\n > in the final days to get Congress to take up the bill before\n > Congress adjourned, but the bill never ... found a Congressional\n > sponsor (and was therefore never officially introduced). The FBI\n > [may] reintroduce \"Digital Telephony\" when the 103rd Congress\n > convenes in January.\n\n ftp.eff.org\n ===========\n \n /pub/eff/legislation/fbi-wiretap-bill\n /pub/EFF/legislation/new-fbi-wiretap-bill\n ---\n A bill to ensure the continuing access of law enforcement to the\n content of wire and electronic communications when authorized by\n law and for other purposes. Version 2 of the bill after FBI\n changes in response to public response.\n\n /pub/cud/law/hr3515\n ---\n House of Rep bill 3515, Telecommunications Law.\n\n Commentary\n ==========\n \n /pub/eff/papers/eff-fbi-analysis\n ---\n The EFF-sponsored analysis of the FBI's Digital Telephony proposal.\n\n /pub/eff/papers/ecpa.layman\n ---\n The Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986: A Layman's View.\n\n /pub/eff/papers/nightline-wire\n ---\n Transcript of ABC's Nightline of May 22, 1992, on the FBI,\n Privacy, and Proposed Wire-Tapping Legislation. Featured are Marc\n Rotenberg of the CPSR and William Sessions, Director of the FBI.\n\n /pub/eff/papers/edwards_letter\n ---\n A letter from the Director of the Secret Service to US Rep. Don\n Edwards, D-California, in response to questions raised by\n Edwards' Subcommittee. This copy came from Computer Professionals\n for Social Responsibility in Washington, D.C.\n\n /pub/eff/papers/fbi.systems\n ---\n A description of how information is stored on the FBI's computer\n systems.\n\n\n_____\n<6.7> What other U.S. legislation is related to privacy?\n\n ftp.eff.org\n ===========\n \n /pub/cud/law/ \n ---\n State computer crime laws:\n AL, AK, AZ, CA, CO, CT, DE, FL, GA,\n HI, IA, ID, IL, IN, MD, MN, NC, NJ,\n NM, NY, OR, TX, VT, VA, WA, WI, WV.\n\n /pub/cud/law/\n ---\n Current computer crime laws for: The United States (federal\n code), Canada, Ghana, and Great Britain.\n\n /pub/cud/law/bill.s.618\n ---\n Senate bill 618, addressing registration of encryption keys with\n the government.\n\n /pub/cud/law/improve\n ---\n Improvement of Information Access bill.\n\n /pub/cud/law/monitoring\n ---\n Senate bill 516; concerning abuses of electronic monitoring in the\n workplace.\n\n /pub/cud/law/us.e-privacy\n ---\n Title 18, relating to computer crime & email privacy.\n\n /pub/academic/law/privacy.electronic.bill\n ---\n The text of Simon's electronic privacy bill, S. 516. ``To prevent\n potential abuses of electronic monitoring in the workplace.''\n\n_____\n<6.8> What are references on rights in cyberspace?\n\n ftp.eff.org\n ===========\n\n /pub/cud/papers/const.in.cyberspace\n ---\n Laurence Tribe's keynote address at the first Conference on\n Computers, Freedom, & Privacy. `The Constitution in Cyberspace'\n\n /pub/cud/papers/denning\n ---\n Paper presented to 13th Nat'l Comp Security Conf ``Concerning\n Hackers Who Break into Computer Systems'' by Dorothy E Denning.\n\n /pub/cud/papers/privacy\n ---\n ``Computer Privacy vs First and Fourth Amendment Rights'' by\n Michael S. Borella\n\n /pub/cud/papers/rights-of-expr\n ---\n Rights of Expression in Cyberspace by R. E. Baird\n\n /pub/academic/eff.rights\n ---\n Bill of Rights' meaning in the Electronic Frontier.\n\n_____\n<6.9> What is the Computers and Academic Freedom (CAF) archive?\n\n The CAF Archive is an electronic library of information about\n computers and academic freedom. run by the Computers and Academic\n Freedom group on the Electronic Frontier Foundation FTP site.\n \n > If you have gopher, the archive is browsable with the command:\n > gopher -p academic gopher.eff.org\n > \n > It is available via anonymous ftp to ftp.eff.org (192.88.144.4) in\n > directory `pub/academic'. It is also available via email. For\n > information on email access send email to archive-server@eff.org.\n > In the body of your note include the lines `help' and `index'.\n > \n > For more information, to make contributions, or to report typos\n > contact J.S. Greenfield (greeny@eff.org).\n\n ftp.eff.org\n ===========\n \n /pub/academic/statements/caf-statement\n ---\n Codifies the application of academic freedom to academic\n computers, reflecting seven months of on-line discussion about\n computers and academic freedom. Covers free expression, due\n process, privacy, and user participation.\n\n /pub/academic/books\n ---\n Directory of book references related to Computers and Academic\n Freedom or mentioned in the CAF discussion. The file books/README\n is a bibliography.\n\n /pub/academic/faq/archive\n ---\n List of files available on the Computers and Academic Freedom\n archive.\n\n /pub/academic/news\n ---\n Directory of all issues of the Computers and Academic Freedom\n News. A full list of abstracts is available in file `abstracts'.\n The special best-of-the-month issues are named with their month,\n for example, `June'.\n\n\nFOOTNOTES\n=========\n\n\n_____\n<7.1> What is the background behind the Internet?\n \n The article ``Internet'' in Fantasy and Science Fiction by Bruce\n Sterling contains general and nontechnical\n introductory notes on origins of the Internet, including the role\n of the RAND corporation, the goal of network resilience in face of\n nuclear attack, MIT, UCLA, ARPANET, TCP/IP, NSF, NREN, etc.:\n\n > ARPANET itself formally expired in 1989, a happy victim of its \n > own overwhelming success. Its users scarcely noticed, for\n > ARPANET's functions not only continued but steadily improved. \n > The use of TCP/IP standards for computer networking is now\n > global. In 1971, a mere twenty-one years ago, there were only\n > four nodes in the ARPANET network. Today there are tens of\n > thousands of nodes in the Internet, scattered over forty-two\n > countries, with more coming on-line every day. Three million,\n > possibly four million people use this gigantic\n > mother-of-all-computer-networks. \n > \n > The Internet is especially popular among scientists, and is \n > probably the most important scientific instrument of the late \n > twentieth century. The powerful, sophisticated access that it \n > provides to specialized data and personal communication has sped\n > up the pace of scientific research enormously. \n > \n > The Internet's pace of growth in the early 1990s is spectacular, \n > almost ferocious. It is spreading faster than cellular phones,\n > faster than fax machines. Last year the Internet was growing at\n > a rate of twenty percent a *month.* The number of `host'\n > machines with direct connection to TCP/IP has been doubling\n > every year since 1988. The Internet is moving out of its\n > original base in military and research institutions, into\n > elementary and high schools, as well as into public libraries\n > and the commercial sector.\n\n References\n ==========\n\n Bowers, K., T. LaQuey, J. Reynolds, K. Roubicek, M. Stahl, and A.\n Yuan, ``Where to Start - A Bibliography of General Internetworking\n Information'' (RFC-1175), CNRI, U Texas, ISI, BBN, SRI, Mitre,\n August 1990.\n\n The Whole Internet Catalog & User's Guide by Ed Krol. (1992)\n O'Reilly and Associates, Inc.\n ---\n A clear, non-jargonized introduction to the intimidating business\n of network literacy written in humorous style.\n\n Krol, E., ``The Hitchhikers Guide to the Internet'' (RFC-1118),\n University of Illinois Urbana, September 1989.\n\n ``The User's Directory to Computer Networks'', by Tracy LaQuey.\n\n The Matrix: Computer Networks and Conferencing Systems Worldwide. \n by John Quarterman. Digital Press: Bedford, MA. (1990) \n ---\n Massive and highly technical compendium detailing the\n mind-boggling scope and complexity of global internetworks.\n\n ``!%@:: A Directory of Electronic Mail Addressing and Networks'' by\n Donnalyn Frey and Rick Adams.\n \n The Internet Companion, by Tracy LaQuey with Jeanne C. Ryer (1992) \n Addison Wesley. \n ---\n ``Evangelical'' etiquette guide to the Internet featuring \n anecdotal tales of life-changing Internet experiences. Foreword\n by Senator Al Gore.\n\n Zen and the Art of the Internet: A Beginner's Guide by Brendan P. \n Kehoe (1992) Prentice Hall. \n ---\n Brief but useful Internet guide with plenty of good advice on\n useful databases.\n\n\n See also ftp.eff.com:/pub/internet-info/. (Thanks to Bruce Sterling\n for contributions here.)\n\n\n General\n =======\n\n Cunningham, Scott and Alan L. Porter. ``Communication Networks: A\n dozen ways they'll change our lives.'' The Futurist 26, 1\n (January-February, 1992): 19-22.\n\n Brian Kahin, ed., BUILDING INFORMATION INFRASTRUCTURE (New York: \n McGraw-Hill, 1992) ISBN# 0-390-03083-X\n ---\n Essays on information infrastructure. Policy and design issues,\n research and NREN, future visions, information markets. See\n table of contents in ftp.eff.org:/pub/pub-infra/1992-03.\n\n Shapard, Jeffrey. ``Observations on Cross-Cultural Electronic \n Networking.'' Whole Earth Review (Winter) 1990: 32-35.\n\n Varley, Pamela. ``Electronic Democracy.'' Technology Review \n (November/December, 1991): 43-51.\n\n______\n<7.2> How Internet `anarchy' like the English language?\n\n According to Bruce Sterling :\n\n > The Internet's `anarchy' may seem strange or even unnatural, but\n > it makes a certain deep and basic sense. It's rather like the \n > `anarchy' of the English language. Nobody rents English, and\n > nobody owns English. As an English-speaking person, it's up\n > to you to learn how to speak English properly and make whatever\n > use you please of it (though the government provides certain\n > subsidies to help you learn to read and write a bit). \n > Otherwise, everybody just sort of pitches in, and somehow the\n > thing evolves on its own, and somehow turns out workable. And\n > interesting. Fascinating, even. Though a lot of people earn\n > their living from using and exploiting and teaching English,\n > `English' as an institution is public property, a public good. \n > Much the same goes for the Internet. Would English be improved\n > if the `The English Language, Inc.' had a board of directors\n > and a chief executive officer, or a President and a Congress? \n > There'd probably be a lot fewer new words in English, and a lot\n > fewer new ideas. \n\n\n_____\n<7.3> Most Wanted list\n\n Hopefully you have benefitted from this creation, compilation, and\n condensation of information from various sources regarding privacy,\n identity, and anonymity on the internet. The author is committed\n to keeping this up-to-date and strengthening it, but this can only\n be effective with your feedback. In particular, the following\n items are sought:\n \n - Short summaries of RFC documents and other references listed,\n esp. CPSR files.\n - More data on the specific uses and penetration of RFC-931.\n - Internet traffic statistics. How much is email? How much\n USENET? What are the costs involved?\n - Famous or obscure examples of compromised privacy\n on the internet.\n - FTP site for the code (NOT the code) to turn the .plan file into a\n named pipe for sensing/reacting to remote `fingers'.\n - Knowledge on the `promiscuous' mode of receipt or transmission \n on network cards.\n - Details on the infamous experiment where a scientist resubmitted \n previously accepted papers to a prominent journal with new and\n unknown authors that were subsequently rejected.\n - X Windows, EFF, CPSR FAQhood in news.answers.\n \n Commerical use of this document is negotiable and is a way for the\n author to recoup from a significant time investment. Email feedback\n to ld231782@longs.lance.colostate.edu. Please note where you saw\n this (which newsgroup, etc.).\n\n_____\n<7.4> Change history\n\n 3/3/93 v2.1 (current)\n \n CPSR pointer, new UNIX mode examples, digital telephony act,\n Steve Jackson incident, additions/ reorganization to\n anonymity section, part 3. Note: v2.0 post to sci.crypt,\n alt.privacy, news.answers, alt.answers, sci.answers was cancelled\n by J. Kamens because of incorrect subject line.\n \n 2/14/93 v2.0\n\n Major revisions. New section for X Windows. Some email privacy\n items reorganized to network security section. New sections for\n email liability issues, anonymity history and responsibilities. \n Split into three files. Many new sources added, particularly\n from EFF and CAF in new `issues' part. `commentary' from \n news.admin.policy. 21 day automated posting starts.\n\n 2/3/93 v1.0\n\n More newsgroups & FAQs added. More `Most Wanted'. Posted to\n news.answers. Future monthly posting to sci.crypt, alt.privacy.\n\n 2/1/93 v0.3\n \n Formatted to 72 columns for quoting etc. `miscellaneous,'\n `resources' sections added with cypherpunk servers and use\n warnings. More UNIX examples (`ls' and `chmod'). Posted to\n alt.privacy, comp.society.privacy.\n \n 1/29/93 v0.2\n \n `Identity' and `Privacy' sections added. `Anonymity' expanded.\n Remailer addresses removed due to lack of information and\n instability. Posted to sci.crypt.\n \n 1/25/93 v0.1\n \n Originally posted to the cypherpunks mailing list on 1/25/93 as a\n call to organize a list of anonymous servers.\n \n email ld231782@longs.lance.colostate.edu for earlier versions.\n\n\n* * *\n\nSEE ALSO\n========\n\nPart 1 (previous file)\n------\n\n<1.1> What is `identity' on the internet?\n<1.2> Why is identity (un)important on the internet?\n<1.3> How does my email address (not) identify me and my background?\n<1.4> How can I find out more about somebody from their email address?\n<1.5> Why is identification (un)stable on the internet? \n<1.6> What is the future of identification on the internet?\n\n<2.1> What is `privacy' on the internet?\n<2.2> Why is privacy (un)important on the internet?\n<2.3> How (in)secure are internet networks?\n<2.4> How (in)secure is my account?\n<2.5> How (in)secure are my files and directories?\n<2.6> How (in)secure is X Windows?\n<2.7> How (in)secure is my email?\n<2.8> How am I (not) liable for my email and postings?\n<2.9> How do I provide more/less information to others on my identity?\n<2.10> Who is my sysadmin? What does s/he know about me?\n<2.11> Why is privacy (un)stable on the internet?\n<2.12> What is the future of privacy on the internet?\n\n<3.1> What is `anonymity' on the internet?\n<3.2> Why is `anonymity' (un)important on the internet?\n<3.3> How can anonymity be protected on the internet?\n<3.4> What is `anonymous mail'?\n<3.5> What is `anonymous posting'?\n<3.6> Why is anonymity (un)stable on the internet?\n<3.7> What is the future of anonymity on the internet?\n\nPart 3 (next file)\n------\n\n<8.1> What are some known anonymous remailing and posting sites?\n<8.2> What are the responsibilities associated with anonymity?\n<8.3> How do I `kill' anonymous postings?\n<8.4> What is the history behind anonymous posting servers?\n<8.5> What is the value of anonymity?\n<8.6> Should anonymous posting to all groups be allowed?\n<8.7> What should system operators do with anonymous postings?\n<8.8> What is going on with anon.penet.fi maintained by J. Helsingius?\n\n\n* * *", "\n\nThe paper was distributed (against the wishes of the NSA - I have a copy\nwith a few 'illicit distribution' footnotes scribbled on it :-), and eventually\npublished at one of the crypto conferences. Things were looking good.\n\nThen Xerox patented the algorithms. \n\nI don't know of anything which uses them. Also, Khafre was broken at a\nlater conference and from work on a related algorithm I don't think the\nexisting Khufu would hold up too well against a converted differential\ncryptanalysis attack, although it can probably be changed to resist this\ntype of attack....\n\nPeter.", "\nWorse? Maybe not, but it is definately a violation of the\nrules the US govt. supposedly follows. Maybe the others\nshould be changed to? But I'm not personally as concerned\nabout the anthem since I don't come across it in daily\nnearly unavoidable routines.\n\n\nI don't despise the people...just their opinions. I meant\nwhen chatting with the ones who refuse to listen to any idea\nother than their own...then it just becomes an exercise for\namusement.\n", "\nIf no-one looks at the results, or acknowledges their correctness, in what\nmeaningful sense can the chip be said to \"work\"?? Does flibozity exist?\nBy \"flibozity\", I mean a particular, extremely complex configuration of \nphysical phenomena, which no-one, absolutely NO-ONE cares about in the \nslightest. Does it exist, Eric?\n\nGetting back to the question of whether the DES chip \"works\", doesn't \"work\" \nmean something like \"achieving the desired/expected effect\"? Note the way \nintentionality subtly underlies that definition. Even if we take the \ndefinition as \"expected\", instead of \"desired\", can you deny that conformance \nto expectations is itself a value of sorts, namely the scientific values of \naccuracy-of-prediction and reproducibility-of-results?\n\nThe phenomenologist Husserl, for one, considered Intentionality to be the\nprimary ontological \"stuff\" from which all other ontology was built --\nperceptions, consciousness, thoughts, etc. Frank is by no means alone in\nseeing intentionality (or \"values\", as he puts it) underlying all human\nexperience, even the so-called \"objective\" experiences, such as \nmeasurements of the natural world, or the output of your DES chip.", "\n\nTwo things to watch for:\nIn Germany (and I think the same holds for Sweden) only some\nof the connections can handle tone dialing, so make sure the\nphone can be set to pulse dialing.\nIn Sweden, the '0' is the first digit and all other digits\nare pushed \"down\" by one position; this makes dialing (and\nin the process converting numbers) an interesting task.\nOtherwise, it is technically no problem to connect a foreign\nphone to either the German or Swedish phone system.\nOTOH neither you nor I would ever try that, as it is of course\nillegal.", "\n I answer from the position that we would indeed place these people\n in prison for life.\n\n That depends not only on their predisposition towards murder, but\n also in their success rate at escape and therefore their ability\n to commit the same crimes again.\n\n In other words, if lifetime imprisonment doesn't work, perhaps\n it's not because we're not executing these people, but because\n we're not being careful enough about how we lock them up.\n\n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ \n\nBob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM \n\nThey said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,\nand sank Manhattan out at sea.", "Archive-name: net-privacy/part3\nLast-modified: 1993/3/3\nVersion: 2.1\n\n\nNOTES on ANONYMITY on the INTERNET\n==================================\n\nCompiled by L. Detweiler .\n\n\n<8.1> What are some known anonymous remailing and posting sites?\n<8.2> What are the responsibilities associated with anonymity?\n<8.3> How do I `kill' anonymous postings?\n<8.4> What is the history behind anonymous posting servers?\n<8.5> What is the value of anonymity?\n<8.6> Should anonymous posting to all groups be allowed?\n<8.7> What should system operators do with anonymous postings?\n<8.8> What is going on with anon.penet.fi maintained by J. Helsingius?\n\n\n* * *\n\n_____\n<8.1> What are some known anonymous remailing and posting sites?\n\n Currently the most stable of anonymous remailing and posting sites\n is anon.penet.fi operated by julf@penet.fi for several months, who\n has system adminstrator privileges and owns the equipment. \n Including anonymized mail, Usenet posting, and return addresses \n (no encryption). Send mail to help@penet.fi for information.\n \n Hal Finney has contributed an instruction manual for the cypherpunk\n remailers on the ftp site soda.berkeley.edu (128.32.149.19):\n pub/cypherpunks/hal's.instructions. See also scripts.tar.Z (UNIX\n scripts to aid remailer use) and anonmail.arj (MSDOS batch files to\n aid remailer use).\n\n ebrandt@jarthur.claremont.edu\n -----------------------------\n Anonymized mail. Request information from above address.\n \n elee7h5@rosebud.ee.uh.edu\n -------------------------\n Experimental anonymous remailer run Karl Barrus\n , with encryption to the server. Request\n information from that address.\n \n hal@alumni.caltech.edu\n ----------------------\n Experimental remailer with encryption to server and return\n addresses. Request information from above address.\n\n hh@soda.berkeley.edu\n hh@cicada.berkeley.edu\n hh@pmantis.berkeley.edu\n ----------------------\n Experimental remailer. Include header `Request-Remailing-To'.\n\n nowhere@bsu-cs.bsu.edu \n ----------------------\n Experimental remailer allowing one level of chaining. Run by\n Chael Hall. Request information from above address.\n\n phantom@mead.u.washington.edu \n -----------------------------\n Experimental remailer with encryption to server. `finger' site\n address for information.\n\n Notes\n =====\n \n - Cypherpunk remailers tend to be unstable because they are often\n running without site administrator knowledge. Liability issues\n are wholly unresolved.\n \n - So far, all encryption is based on public-key cryptography and PGP\n software (see the question on cryptography). \n\n - Encryption aspects (message text, destination address, replies)\n vary between sites.\n\n - Multiple chaining, alias unlinking, and address encryption are\n mostly untested, problematic, or unsupported at this time.\n\n_____\n<8.2> What are the responsibilities associated with anonymity?\n\n \n Users\n -----\n\n - Use anonymity only if you have to. Frivolous uses weaken the\n seriousness and usefulness of the capability for others.\n - Do not use anonymity to provoke, harass, or threaten others.\n - Do not hide behind anonymity to evade established conventions on\n Usenet, such as posting binary pictures to regular newsgroups.\n - If posting large files, be attentive to bandwidth considerations.\n Remember, simply sending the posting to the service increases\n network traffic.\n - Avoid posting anonymously to the regular hierarchy of Usenet; this\n is the mostly likely place to alienate readers. The `alt'\n hierarchy is preferred.\n - Give as much information as possible in the posting (i.e.\n references, etc.) Remember that content is the only means for\n readers to judge the truth of the message, and that any\n inaccuracies will tend to discredit the entire message and even\n future ones under the same handle.\n - Be careful not to include information that will reveal your\n identity or enable someone to deduce it. Test the system by\n sending anonymized mail to yourself.\n - Be aware of the policies of the anonymous site and respect them. \n Be prepared to forfeit your anonymity if you abuse the privilege.\n - Be considerate and respectful of other's objections to anonymity.\n - ``Hit-and-run'' anonymity should be used with utmost reservation.\n Use services that provide anonymous return addresses instead.\n - Be courteous to the system operator, who may have invested large\n amounts of time, be personally risking his account, or dedicating\n his hardware, all for your convenience.\n\n Operators\n ---------\n\n - Document thoroughly acceptable and unacceptable uses in an\n introductory file that is sent to new users. Have a coherent and\n consistent policy and stick to it. State clearly what logging and\n monitoring is occurring. Describe your background, interest, and\n security measures. Will the general approach be totalitarian or\n lassaiz-faire?\n - Formulate a plan for problematic ethical situations and anticipate\n potentially intense moral quandaries and dilemmas. What if a user\n is blackmailing someone through your service? What if a user\n posts suicidal messages through your service? Remember, your\n users trust you to protect them.\n - In the site introductory note, give clear examples of situations\n where you will take action and what these actions will be (e.g.\n warn the user, limit anonymity to email or posting only, revoke\n the account, 'out' the user, contact local administrator, etc.)\n - Describe exactly the limitations of the software and hardware.\n Address the bandwidth limitations of your site. Report candidly\n and thoroughly all bugs that have occurred. Work closely with\n users to isolate and fix bugs. Address all bugs noted below under\n ``(in)stability of anonymity''.\n - Document the stability of the site---how long has it been running?\n What compromises have occured? Why are you running it? What is\n your commitment to it?\n - Include a disclaimer in outgoing mail and messages. Include an\n address for complaints, ideally appended to every outgoing item. \n Consult a lawyer about your liability.\n - Be committed to the long-term stability of the site. Be prepared\n to deal with complaints and `hate mail' addressed to you. If you\n do not own the hardware the system runs on or are not the system\n adminstrator, consult those who do and are.\n - Be considerate of providing anonymity to various groups. If\n possible, query group readers.\n - Keep a uniformity and simplicity of style in outgoing message\n format that can be screened effectively by kill files. Ensure\n the key text `Anon' is somewhere in every header.\n - Take precautions to ensure the security of the server from\n physical and network-based attacks and infiltrations.\n\n Readers\n -------\n \n - Do not complain, attack, or discredit a poster for the sole reason\n that he is posting anonymously, make blanket condemnations that\n equate anonymity with cowardice and criminality, or assail\n anonymous traffic in general for mostly neutral reasons (e.g. its\n volume is heavy or increasing).\n - React to the anonymous information unemotionally. Abusive posters\n will be encouraged further if they get irrationally irate\n responses. Sometimes the most effective response is silence.\n - Notify operators if very severe abuses occur, such as piracy,\n harassment, extortion, etc.\n - Do not complain about postings being inappropriate because they\n offend you personally.\n - Use kill files to screen anonymous postings if you object to the\n idea of anonymity itself.\n - Avoid the temptation to proclaim that all anonymous postings\n should be barred from particular groups because no `possible' or\n `conceivable' need exists.\n\n References\n ----------\n \n See e.g. ftp.eff.org:/pub/academic/anonymity:\n\n > This article is an excerpt from an issue of FIDONEWS on individual\n > privacy and the use of handles. It accepts the need of a system\n > operator to know the name of a user; but suggests that the use of\n > a handle is analogous to a request to withhold the name in a\n > letter to the editor. The article concludes with a set of\n > guidelines for preserving the right to be anonymous.\n\n_____\n<8.3> How do I `kill' anonymous postings?\n\n James Thomas Green :\n\n > Try putting this in your kill file:\n > \n > /Anon/h:j\n > /Anonymous/h:j\n > \n > This will search the headers of the messages and kill any that\n > contain `Anon' or `Anonymous' in them. Not perfect and won't\n > kill followups. \n \n Note that anonymous server operators have the capability to mask\n anonymous postings under which the above method will not work; so\n far this practice is not widespread, but it may become more common\n as a countermeasure to widespread anonymous filtering.\n \n_____\n<8.4> What is the history behind anonymous posting servers?\n\n Originally anonymous posting services were introduced for\n individual, particularly volatile newsgroups, where anonymity is\n almost the preferred method of communication, such as talk.abortion\n and alt.sex.bondage. One of the first was one by Dave Mack\n started in ~1988 for alt.sex.bondage. Another early one was\n wizvax.methuen.ma.us run by Stephanie Gilgut (Gilgut Enterprises)\n but was disbanded due to lack of funds. The system provided\n anonymous return addresses. n7kbt.rain.com (John Opalko) took up\n the functions of this server, including reinstating the anonymous\n alias file. The group ``alt.personals has been chewing through\n servers like there's no tomorrow.''\n \n Spurred by the disappearance of `wizvax' and interested in\n researching the idea, Karl Kleinpaste\n developed his own system\n from scratch in six hours. By this time the idea of extending the\n server to new, more `mainstream' groups was starting to emerge,\n and he explored the possibility partly at the specific request by\n multiple users for anonymity in other groups. ``The intended\n advantage of my system was specifically to allow multiple group\n support, with a single anon identifier across all. This was\n arguably the single biggest deficiency of previous anon systems.'' \n K. Kleinpaste posted a message on rec.nude asking users whether an\n anonymous service would be welcome there, and judged a consensus\n against it. \n\n K. Kleinpaste introduced what he calls a ``fire extinguisher'' to\n `squelch' or `plonk' abusive users in response to complaints, and\n used this in three cases. Nevertheless, after a few months of\n intense traffic he was eventually overwhelmed by the abuses of his\n server. ``Even as restricted as it was, my system was subjected to\n abuses to the point where it was ordered dismantled by the\n facilities staff here. Such abuses started right after it was\n created.''\n\n In ~Nov 1992, Johan Helsingius (julf@penet.FI) set up the most\n controversial anonymous site to date. anon.penet.fi is based on\n scripts and C code written by K. Kleinpaste and supports anonymized\n mail, posting, and return addresses. He initially wanted to confine\n the service to Scandinavian users but expanded it to worldwide\n accessability in response to 'lots' of international requests.\n \n J. Helsingius policy of allowing anonymous posting to every Usenet\n newsgroup has been met with strong and serious ideological\n opposition (e.g. by news adminstrators in news.admin.policy).\n Because of the relative newness and recent emergence of the medium,\n abuses by anonymous posters tend to have higher visibility than\n ``routine'' abuses. His total commitment to preservation of\n anonymity is also controversial.\n\n For example, in a highly controversial and publicized case in ~Feb\n 1993, an anonymous user posted a supposed transcript of desperate\n crew dialogue during the Challenger shuttle disaster via\n anon.penet.fi to sci.astro. Despite that the transcript had been\n posted in the same place up to a year earlier (then\n non-anonymously) and actually originated not with the poster but a\n New York news tabloid, subsequent responses consisted largely of\n vociferous outrage at the poster's use of anonymity, reverberating\n through many newsgroups. \n \n The original poster, using the same anonymous handle, later conceded\n that the story ``seemed likely to have been fabricated,''\n suggesting the plausible possibility that the original intent was\n not to provoke outrage but gauge reactions on the authenticity of\n the story (albeit crudely), free of personal risk from perceived\n association with the item. The ensuing commotion generated queries\n for the original article by late-entering readers. The anonymous\n user later posted deliberately offensive comments at his\n detractors.\n\n Despite piercingly irate and outraged complaints, and even the vocal\n opposition and verbal abuse of K. Kleinpaste and eminent news\n operators, J. Helsingius has largely avoided use of the ``fire\n extingisher'' and the ``group bouncer'' mechanisms that limit the\n scope of the service. As of ~March 1993 the anon.penet.fi site is\n best described as `inundated': it has registered over 13,000 users\n in its initial three months of operation, forwards ~3000 messages a\n day, and approximately 5% of all Usenet postings are anonymized\n through the site. The immense popularity is probably largely due\n to the capability for `global' anonymity which has allowed users to\n find creative uses in diverse areas not previously envisioned.\n\n Johan Helsingius has been subject to extraordinary pressure to\n dismantle his server in ~Feb 1993. At one point K. Kleinpaste\n threatened publicly to organize a sort of vigilante group of irate\n news operators to send out revocation commands on all messages\n originating from the site. J. Helsingius has also alluded to\n threats of flooding the server. The server has crashed several\n times, at least once due to a saturation `mailbombing' through it\n by an anonymous user. Mr. Helsingius reports spending up to 5\n hours per day answering email requests alone associated with the\n service's administration. In response to the serious threats he\n disabled global group access temporarily for one week and\n encouraged his users to defend the service publicly.\n \n Based on fast-moving dialogue and creative suggestions by\n ``cypherpunks,'' J. Helsingius has identified many security\n weaknesses and valuable new features for the service, and is\n currently in the process of code development and testing. He is\n planning on upgrading the IBM compatible 386 machine to a 486 soon\n to handle the voluminous load and is considering integrating a new\n system with very sophisticated functionality, including multiple\n email aliases, alias allocation control, public-key encryption,\n etc.\n\n A very sophisticated anonymous posting system was set up in Dec.\n 1992 by D. Clunie that used cryptography\n in both directions (to/from) the server for the highest degree of\n confidentiality seen so far. However, it was running on a public\n access account, and he had to shut it down after only several\n weeks, upon receiving requests and conditions apparently ultimately\n originating from NSF representatives. D. Clunie has released the\n software to the public domain.\n\n Recently the idea of a newsgroup devoted to `whistleblowing' on\n government abuses has received wide and focused attention, and\n group formation is currently underway. In the basic scenario the\n group would allow people to post pseudonymously using remailers,\n and even establish reputations based on their authentifiable\n digital signatures. The traffic may eventually reach reporters in\n the mainstream news media. deltorto@aol.com has volunteered to\n attack multiple aspects of this project, including distributing\n easy-to-read documentation on posting, anonymization, and\n encryption.\n\n See also sections on ``views on anonymous posting'' below and ``what\n is going on with anon.penet.fi?'' in this document.\n \n (Thanks to Carl Kleinpaste\n , David Clunie\n and Johan Helsingius for\n contributions here.)\n\n\n_____\n<8.5> What is the value of anonymity?\n\n KONDARED@PURCCVM.BITNET:\n \n > I think anonymous posts do help in focusing our attention on the\n > content of one's message. Sure lot of anonymous posts are abusive\n > or frivolous but in most cases these are by users who find the\n > anon facility novel. Once the novelty wears off they are stopping\n > their pranks...\n\n morgan@engr.uky.edu (Wes Morgan):\n\n > I don't mind seeing the miscellaneous hatred/prejudice/racism;\n > those things are part of our nature. However, the notion of\n > providing anonymity's shield for these ideas repulses me. If\n > they have such strong feelings, why can't they put their name(s)\n > on their postings? ... Quite frankly, I loathe communication\n > with people who refuse to use their names.\n\n dclunie@pax.tpa.com.au (David Clunie)\n \n > Many seem to question the value of anonymity. But who are they to\n > say what risks another individual should take ? There is no\n > question that in this rather conservative society that we live\n > in, holding certain views, making certain statements, adopting a\n > certain lifestyle, are likely to result in public censure,\n > ridicule, loss of status, employment, or even legal action. Given\n > the heterogeneity of the legal jurisdictions from where the many\n > contributors to usenet post, who knows what is legal and what is\n > not ! Some say that anonymous posters are \"cowards\" and should\n > stand up and be counted. Perhaps that is one point of view but\n > what right do these detractors have to exercise such censorship ?\n\n From: doug@cc.ysu.edu (Doug Sewell)\n \n > Why is it censorship to not expect someone to speak for\n > themselves, without the cloak of anonymity. This is at best a\n > lame argument. \n > \n > You tell me why what you have to say requires anonymity. And you\n > tell me why the wishes of a majority of non-anonymous users of a\n > newsgroup should be disregarded when they don't want anonymous\n > posts.\n > \n > Anonymous users have LESS rights than any others. They are not\n > legitimate usenet participants. I would not honor RFDs, CFVs,\n > control messages, or votes from one.\n\n brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton):\n \n > I can think of no disadvantage caused by anon posting sites that\n > doesn't already exist, other than the fact that they do make more\n > naive net users who don't know how to post anonymously the old\n > way more prone to do it.\n\n From: mandel@netcom.com (Tom Mandel)\n \n > I cannot speak for others but I regard anonymous postings in a\n > serious discussion as pretty much worthless. ... views that hide \n > behind the veil of anon are hardly worth the trouble of reading.\n \n n8729@anon.penet.fi (Hank Pankey)\n \n > Since I began posting anonymously (to show support for general\n > principles of personal privacy) I have been subject to far more\n > abuse and attack than I ever received before. People seem to\n > find it easier to flame and insult someone whose name they don't\n > know. Perhaps it's easier to pretend that there is no person\n > behind the email address who feels the sting of abusive comments.\n > \n > Anonymity does hinder some methods of controlling other posters'\n > actions. People who seek such control will naturally oppose it.\n\n From: 00acearl@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu\n \n > Instead of making this a \"free-er medium\" by allowing posters to\n > \"protect themselves\" with anonymity, simply require that all\n > posters be prepared to discuss their sources of information and\n > take the heat for unsubstantiated dribble. This seems to be the\n > way things are currently done; \n\n xtkmg@trentu.ca (Kate Gregory):\n \n > In misc.kids there are three threads going on started by anonymous\n > posters. One was about changing jobs so as to work less hours,\n > job sharing and so on, from a woman who didn't want anyone at her\n > current place of work to know she was thinking of looking for\n > work elsewhere. The next was from a woman who is thinking of\n > having a baby sometime soon and doesn't want coworkers, friends,\n > family etc etc to know all about it, but who wants advice. The\n > third is about sex after parenthood -- actually this was started\n > by people posting in the usual way but then it was pointed out\n > that the anonymous posting service might let more people\n > participate.\n > \n > Misc.kids doesn't seem to be suffering any harm from the presence\n > of anonymous posters; in fact it seems to have been helped by it.\n\n hoey@zogwarg.etl.army.mil (Dan Hoey):\n \n > While there has never been any real security against anonymous or\n > forged postings on Usenet, the process has until now been\n > sufficiently inconvenient, error-prone, and undocumented to limit\n > its use by persons who have not learned the culture of the net.\n >\n > On the other hand, a recent use of the anonymous posting service\n > on sci.math seemed seemed to be a student asking help on a\n > homework problem. It has now been attributed to a teacher,\n > asking for an explanation of a dubious answer in his teaching\n > guide. He says his news posting is broken, so he is using the\n > anonymous service as a mail-to-news gateway.\n\n Karl Barrus \n \n > Some argue that the opinions of the people who hide behind a veil\n > of anonymity are worthless, and that people should own up to\n > their thoughts. I agree with the latter point - in an ideal\n > world we would all be sitting around engaging in Socratic\n > dialogues, freely exchanging our opinions in an effort to\n > learn. But in an ideal world nobody will threaten you for your\n > thoughts, or ridicule you.\n > \n > But we live in a world where the people who don't agree with you\n > may try to harm you. Let's face it, some people aren't going to\n > agree with your opinion no matter how logically you try to\n > present it, or how reasoned out it may be. This is sad since it\n > does restrict people from voicing their opinions.\n\n red@redpoll.neoucom.edu (Richard E. Depew):\n\n > The consensus seems to be that a general anonymous posting service\n > such as that at anon.penet.fi seems sufficiently corrosive of the\n > trust and civility of the net that this particular experiment\n > should be ended. Perhaps the next time the question comes up we\n > can say: \"We tried it - we learned it does more harm than good -\n > and we stopped it.\" \n\n From: C96@vm.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (Alexander EICHENER)\n\n > anonymous posting has not created major problems aside from\n > angering irate people (like you?) who would rather ban\n > anonymous/pseudonymous posting altogether because \"real men can\n > stand up for what they said\" or comparable puerile arguments as\n > others have brought up.\n\n dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes):\n\n > What a primal example of human nature. I have three questions for\n > you folks. \n > \n > Do people really say different things to each other based upon\n > whether their identity is or isn't known?\n > \n > Are people really so affected by what other people say that the\n > verbage is labeled \"abuse\"?\n > \n > Most importantly, on a forum that prizes itself on the freedom of\n > communication that it enjoys, is there really such a thing as\n > freedom of communication?\n \n From: terry@geovision.gvc.com (Terry McGonigal)\n \n > ... Just how many anon services are needed? Will\n > *everybody* start running one soon? What's the purpose? Who\n > stands to benefit when there are N anon services, then 2*N, then\n > N^2, out there. Where *has* this sudden fasination with anon\n > services come from?\n > \n > For better or (IMHO) worse, it looks like we'er gonna get stuck\n > with these things, and as much as I don't like the idea (of\n > services like this becoming the norm) I don't really think\n > there's much to be done since it's obvious that anyone who wants\n > to can set one up with a bit of work.\n\n Karl_Kleinpaste@cs.cmu.edu (Karl Kleinpaste):\n\n > Weak reasoning.\n > With freedom comes responsibility.\n\n dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes):\n \n > Responsibility isn't real if it is enforced. True responsibilty\n > comes with no coercion. \n\n_____\n<8.6> Should anonymous posting to all groups be allowed?\n\n morgan@engr.uky.edu (Wes Morgan):\n \n > I will be the first to admit that I hold some controversial\n > opinions; indeed, I'm sure that none of us are completely\n > orthodox in our opinions. However, I've received *hundreds* of\n > anonymous email messages over the last few years; fewer than 20\n > of them were \"reasonable posts made with good motives.\" It's \n > getting more and more difficult to remember why we need anonymity\n > at all; the abusers are (once again) lousing things up for those\n > who truly need the service (or those who would put it to good\n > use).\n > \n > I'm not suggesting that we should ban anonymous servers; as I've\n > said, there are several situations in which anonymity is a Good\n > Thing (tm). \n > \n > However, the notion that anonymity's shield should be\n > automatically extended to every Usenet discussion is ridiculous;\n > it opens the door to further abuse. \n\n twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce):\n \n > Of course, how does one determine whether a \"group\" requests the\n > service? A flat majority of posters voting in favor? A positive\n > margin of 100 votes? Or what? No one speaks for a newsgroup.\n > \n > I'm not convinced by the arguments that an anonymous posting\n > service for all newsgroups is inherently a bad idea, simply\n > because it's a diversion from the status quo. Since the status\n > quo previously permitted anonymous posting to *no* newsgroups,\n > any anonymous posting service would reject the status quo.\n \n \n > It is facist to suggest that a newsgroup is best able to decide\n > whether it wants to allow anonymous postings instead of having\n > them forced upon them by an service administrator?\n\n ogil@quads.uchicago.edu (Brian W. Ogilvie):\n\n > The service provides a mechanism for forwarding mail to the\n > original poster. Since most Usenet readers don't know John Smith\n > from Jane Doe except by their opinions and their address, the\n > effect of having an anonymous posting to which mail replies can\n > be directed is minimal, except for those who personally know the\n > poster--and ... the lack of anonymity could be serious. Any\n > mechanism like this is liable to abuse, but the benefits as well\n > as the costs must be weighed. Limiting the service to alt groups,\n > or specific groups, would not help those who want advice on\n > sensitive issues in more 'professional' newsgroups.\n\n From: tarl@sw.stratus.com (Tarl Neustaedter)\n \n > An additional point is that some of us find anonimity in technical\n > matters to be profoundly offensive; anonimity in different forums\n > has different meanings. If I get a phone call from someone who\n > won't identify himself, I hang up. If I get U.S. mail with no\n > return address, it goes into the garbage unopened. If someone\n > accosts me in the street while wearing a mask, I back away -\n > carefully, and expecting violence. In a technical discussion,\n > anonimity means that the individual isn't willing to associate\n > himself with the matter being discussed, which discredits his\n > utterances and makes listening to them a waste of time.\n > \n > Anonimity leads to fun psych experiments; the literature is filled\n > with all the various things that people will do anonymously that\n > they won't otherwise. Including one notorious study involving\n > torture that would not have passed today's ethical standards. Fun\n > stuff, in any case.\n > \n > FINE. LEAVE US OUT OF IT.\n\n From: jbuck@forney.berkeley.edu (Joe Buck)\n\n > You obviously have never submitted an article to a refereed\n > journal, where you will receive anonymous reviews through a server\n > (the editor) that behaves much like the one in Finland (e.g. you \n > may reply and the editor will maintain the anonymity). ... Your\n > comparison of someone who wants to express him/herself on a \n > technical issue anonymously with a person who approaches you on a \n > dark street with a ski mask is just emotionally overwrought \n > nonsense; such posters pose no physical threat to you.\n \n jik@mit.edu (J. Kamens):\n \n > It seems obvious to me that the default should be *not* to allow\n > anonymous postings in a newsgroup. The Usenet has always\n > operated on the principle that the status quo should be kept\n > unless there's a large number of people who want to change it.\n > \n > If someone REALLY needs to post a message anonymous in a newsgroup\n > in which this usually isn't done, they can usually find someone\n > on the net to do this for them. They don't need an automated\n > service to do it, and the automated service is by its nature\n > incapable of making the judgment call necessary to decide whether\n > a particular posting really needs to be anonymous.\n\n From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)\n \n > For any newsgroup you name, I bet I can envision a scenario\n > involving a need for secrecy. If an accurate content-based\n > filter of each anonymous posting could be devised to screen out\n > those that don't require secrecy, wonderful. But it can't be\n > done.\n\n From: lhp@daimi.aau.dk (Lasse Hiller|e Petersen)\n \n > If a newsgroup wants to be noise- and nuisance-free, then it\n > should call for moderation. This should happen on a per-newsgroup\n > basis, and not as a general USENET ban on anonymous postings. Of\n > course one principle of moderation might be to keep out all\n > anonymous postings, and could be achieved automatically. It would\n > still be _moderation_. Personally I would prefer moderation\n > criteria being based on actual content.\n\n David A. Clunie (dclunie@pax.tpa.com.au)\n \n > If a \"group\" doesn't want to receive certain posts it should\n > become moderated - there are clearly defined mechanisms on\n > non-alt groups for this to take place. An automated moderator\n > excluding posts from certain (eg. anonymous) sites or individuals\n > could easily be established. If anyone wants to take such a\n > draconian approach then they are welcome to do so and good luck\n > to them. I doubt if I will be reading their group !\n\n From: dave@frackit.UUCP (Dave Ratcliffe)\n \n > What possible need would someone have for posting anonymously to a\n > sci.* group? \n > \n > Sure most adults are willing to post under their own names. Why\n > would they want to hide behind an anonymous posting service?\n > Ashamed of what they have to say or just trying to rile people\n > without fear of being identified? \n > \n > Anonymous posting have their place in CERTAIN groups. If I or\n > anyone else needs to tell you what those groups are then you've\n > been on another planet breathing exotic gases for too long.\n\n From: Karl_Kleinpaste@cs.cmu.edu\n \n > It's bloody fascinating that (all?) the proponents of unimpeded\n > universal anon posting access can't seem to find any middle\n > ground at all. Why is there such a perception of\n > absolutism? Where does this instant gratification syndrome come\n > from, \"I want anon access and I want it NOW\"? Who are the\n > control freaks here?\n \n From: 00acearl@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu\n\n > Remember, this is a newsgroup for posters writing about SCIENTIFIC\n > issues. Anonymous discussion of scientific issues leads to bad\n > science.\n\n From: noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring)\n \n > Though many have personal philosophical arguments against\n > anonymous posters, their arguments have not been compelling\n > enough to convince me that omni-newsgroup anonymous posting\n > should be banned or severely restricted. Though I cannot prove\n > it, it seems to me that those who do not like anonymous posting\n > (in principle) do so for reasons that are personal (read,\n > psychological discomfort) rather than for reasons related to\n > maintaining the \"integrity\" of Usenet.\n > \n > Remember, it is impossible to be able to ascertain all the\n > conceivable and legitimate motives for anonymous posting to\n > newsgroups one normally would not deem to be \"sensitive\". ... in\n > general, I fear even letting newsgroup readers vote on either\n > allowing or not allowing anonymous posting, since a priori they\n > *cannot* know all the motives of *legitimate* posters, and I do\n > not believe that any system should ever be instituted that would\n > inhibit the posting of legitimate and informative posts. \n\n\n > I personally don't believe that pseudonymous postings are\n > appropriate in a serious discussion area. If there is a\n > LEGITIMATE reason for concealing the posters' identity, perhaps,\n > but simply because they're not so sure if they want their name\n > attached doesn't qualify as LEGITIMATE in my book. (Oh, and if\n > you can come up with a legitimate purpose for anonymous postings,\n > please, enlighten me.)\n\n sderby@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Stuart P. Derby)\n \n > Three of our (the U.S.'s) founding fathers, Madison, Hamilton, and\n > Jay, seemed to think \"anonymous posting\" was OK. The Federalist\n > papers were originally printed in New York newspapers with\n > authorship attributed to \"Publius\". I wonder if you would find\n > their purpose \"LEGITIMATE\"?\n\n\n_____\n<8.7> What should system operators do with anonymous postings?\n\n From: emcguire@intellection.com (Ed McGuire)\n \n > I would like to know how to junk all articles posted by the\n > anonymous service currently being discussed. Ideally I would\n > actually tell my feed site not to feed me articles posted by the\n > anonymous service. Assuming the C News Performance Release, what\n > is a simple way to accomplish this? Or where should I look to\n > learn how to do it myself?\n \n From: dclunie@pax.tpa.com.au (David Clunie)\n \n > That's a bit draconian isn't it ? Have your users unanimously\n > decided that they would like you to do this or have you decided\n > for them ?\n \n From: emcguire@intellection.com (Ed McGuire)\n \n > Good question. Nobody has decided. I have no definite plan to do\n > this, just wanted the technical data.\n\n Carl Kleinpaste (Karl_Kleinpaste@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu):\n \n > ...were I to be in the position of offering such a service again,\n > my promises of protection of anonymity would be limited. Not on\n > the basis of personal opinion of what gets posted, but on the\n > basis of postings which disrupt the smooth operation of the\n > Usenet. The most obvious and direct recourse would be to `out'\n > the abusive individual. Less drastic possibilities exist -- the\n > software supports a \"fire extinguisher\" by which individuals can\n > be prevented from posting.\n\n john@iastate.edu (John Hascall):\n \n > Since when is Usenet a democracy? If someone wants to run an\n > anonymous service, that's their business. If you want to put\n > that host in your killfile, that's your business. If a newsadmin\n > wants to blanket-drop all postings from that site, that's between\n > them and the other people at that site. If everyone ignores a\n > service, the service effectively doesn't exist.\n\n From: jik@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan I. Kamens)\n \n > NNTP servers that allow posting from anyone are NOT \"a service to\n > the net.\" They do the net a disservice.\n > \n > Terminal servers have the same problems as open NNTP servers --\n > they allow people who want to do illegal/immoral/unethical things\n > on the Internet to do so without accountability.\n > \n > There are, by now, public access sites all over this country, if\n > not all over the world, that allow very inexpensive access to the\n > Usenet and the Internet. There is no reason for NNTP servers to\n > allow anyone to post messages through them, and there is no\n > reason for terminal servers to allow anyone to connect to them\n > and then make outbound connections through them. Perhaps when it\n > was harder to get to the Internet or the Usenet, open servers\n > could be justified, but not now.\n\n jbotz@mtholyoke.edu (Jurgen Botz): \n \n > I think that what ... these points show clearly is that an\n > anonymous posting service has a great deal of responsibility,\n > both towards its clients and towards the Net as a whole. Such a\n > service should (IMHO) have a set of well-defined rules and a\n > contract that its clients should sign, under the terms of which\n > they are assured anonymity.\n\n From: an8785@anon.penet.fi\n \n > Is the problem that some are used to \"punishing\" posters who are\n > upsetting in some vague way by complaining to the (usually\n > acquiescent) sysadmin or organizations that the poster belongs\n > to? That surely is the most gutless approach to solving\n > problems, but my experience on the net shows that the same users\n > who vilify anonymous postings are the first to write obsessively\n > detailed grievances to the poster's supervisor when his or her\n > tranquility is disturbed by some \"intrusive\" or subversive post\n > or another.\n > \n > Anonymous postings prevent just this kind of intimidation.\n\n From: gandalf@cyberspace.org (Eric Schilling)\n \n > The main point I would like to make here is that while we can go\n > through and revise the news sw to \"reject anon posts to technical\n > newsgroups\" or some such thing, I think the attempt will prove\n > futile. Each attempt to modify news can result in a changed\n > approach by anon service providers to thwart the change. I think\n > this would be pointless.\n\n From: julf@penet.fi (Johan Helsingius)\n\n > I have tried to stay out of this discussion, and see where the\n > discussion leads. But now I rally feel like I have to speak up.\n > ... I have repeatedly made clear ... that I *do* block users if\n > they continue their abuse after having been warned. In many cases\n > the users have taken heed of the warning and stopped, and in some\n > cases even apologized in public. And when the warning has not had\n > the desired effect, I have blocked a number of users. I have also\n > blocked access to groups where the readership has taken a vote to\n > ban anonymous postings, although I feel changing the newsgroup\n > status to moderated is the only permanent solution for newsgroups\n > that want to \"formalize\" discussion.\n \n red@redpoll.neoucom.edu (Richard E. Depew)\n\n > Does this ... mean that you are volunteering to issue a Request \n > For Discussion to ban anonymous postings or to moderate each of \n > the 4000+ newsgroups that your server can reach? I don't think \n > so, but this illustrates the trouble that your server is causing!\n >\n > please listen to the consensus of the news administrators in this \n > group: any newsgroup should be consulted *before* letting your \n > server post messages to that group.\n \n From: C96@vm.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (Alexander EICHENER)\n \n > There is no pompous \"consensus of *the* news administrators\" \n > here - maybe you would like to invent one. There is a sizeable \n > number of people who are concerned about the possible (and, to a \n > minor extent, about the actual abuse of the server as it is \n > configured now). These concerns are respectable; Johan is dealing\n > with them. ... There are some (few) who rage with foam before \n > their mouth and condemn the service altogether. And a number who\n > defend it, pointing out, like Kate Gregory, that even a group \n > like misc.kids. can benefit from pseudonymous postings.\n\n From: julf@penet.fi (Johan Helsingius)\n\n > I have answered a lot of personal mail related to server abuse,\n > and as a result of that, blocked a number of abusive users. I\n > have also withdrawn the service from several newsgroups where the\n > users have taken a vote on the issue. I have not made any\n > comments on news.admin.policy, partly because the\n > newly-implemented password feature (as a emergency measure\n > against a security hole) has kept me really busy answering user\n > queries the last two weeks, and partly because I feel it is not\n > for me to justify the service, but for the users. The problem\n > with news.admin.policy is that the readership is rather elective,\n > representing people whith a strong interest in centralised\n > control.\n\n From: hartman@ulogic.UUCP (Richard M. Hartman)\n \n > This seems to be a rather bigoted attitude. I would consider that\n > this group is for anyone who wishes to discuss how the net should\n > be controlled. Saying that we only have an interest in\n > \"centralized control\" is a clear indication of bias. You are\n > perfectly welcome to join in the discussions here to promote your\n > views on control.\n\n jbuck@ohm.berkeley.edu\n \n > This whole debate is a lot of \"sound and fury signifying nothing\"\n > because, even if you all decide to ban anonymous posting servers,\n > it is not enforceable. The only people who conceivably could\n > enforce retrictions are those that control the international\n > links.\n > \n > Policy changes should be made by cooperation, not by attempting\n > to dictate. ...you need to persuade those who run the services\n > to act like this through friendly persuasion, not by trying to\n > beat them over the head with a stick (especially a stick you\n > don't even have).\n\n spp@zabriskie.berkeley.edu (Steve Pope)\n \n > I am finding this bias against pseudonymity boring. Our friend\n > posting through penet has a point. The old guard would like to\n > keep their network the way it always has been... and this new\n > thing, these pseudonymous servers, cuts into their turf. So they\n > whine and bitch about it, and every time there's the slightest\n > abuse (such as somebody's .sig being too long), they try to\n > parlay that into an argument against pseudonymity.\n > \n > I'll go on record as saying: three cheers for the admins at anon\n > servers like penet, pax, and n7kbt... and for all the access\n > service providers who are willing to preserve their clients\n > privacy.\n > \n > And a pox on those who try to defeat and restrict pseudonymity.\n \n mimir@stein.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)\n \n > I wouldn't help people get rid of anon postings as a group. If you\n > don't like what someone says, then you put THAT anon address in\n > your kill file, not all of them. Of course, if and when I get an\n > anon site going, I'm just going to assign fake names like\n > \"jsmith\" instead of \"anon5564\" to avoid most of the hassles.\n > You'll never know it is anonymous will you?\n\n From: anne@alcor.concordia.ca (Anne Bennett)\n \n > I must admit to some astonishment at this argument. I see the\n > value of anonymous postings under some circumstances, yet believe\n > strongly that these should be identified as such, so that people\n > who do not wish to read material from people who won't identify\n > themselves, don't have to.\n > \n > I fail to see what good you would be accomplishing, and indeed\n > surmise that you will cause many people inconvenience and\n > annoyance, by hiding the anonymity of postings from your\n > anonymous site. Would you care to justify where the hell you get\n > the gall to try to prevent people from effectively filtering\n > their news as they see fit?\n \n From: dclunie@pax.tpa.com.au (David Clunie)\n \n > I thought I was out of reach here in Australia too. Unfortunately\n > one of the US sites involved in the US/Aus feed complained to the\n > Australian Academic Reasearch Network through whom my site is\n > connected, not about anything in particular, just the concept of\n > anonymous mail having no redeeming features and consuming a\n > narrow bandwidth link (with which I can't argue) and that was\n > that ... stop the service or face disconnection.\n >\n > I consider the demise of [my] service to have been rather\n > unfortunate, and I wish the Finnish remailer luck ! It is a pity\n > that there are very few if any similar services provided with in\n > the US. I guess that's the benefit of having a constitution that\n > guarantees one freedom of speech and a legal and political system\n > that conspires to subvert it in the name of the public good.\n\n\n_____\n<8.8> What is going on with anon.penet.fi run by J. Helsingius?\n\n\n From: Karl_Kleinpaste@cs.cmu.edu\n \n > Funny, how beating the rest of the Usenet over the head with a\n > stick is OK if it's anon.penet.fi and universal anon access. But\n > somehow people on the other side of the same equation (not even\n > arguing to shut it off entirely, but rather just to have some\n > control applied to the abuses that manifest themselves) aren't\n > allowed to do that.\n > \n > I have written to Johan several times in the last couple of\n > weeks. He used to reply to me quite readily. After all, I was\n > the source of the software as originally delivered to him -- he\n > used to be downright _prompt_ about replying to me. Funny, now\n > he's being an impolite bastard who doesn't answer mail _at_all_,\n > even when it consists of really very civil queries.\n \n From: julf@penet.fi (Johan Helsingius)\n \n > In your mail you told me you sent me one or more messages on Feb.\n > 8th. Feb 7th and 8th the server was down, and the flood of mail\n > that resulted from the server coming up again crashed my own mail\n > host. The problem was aggregated by an abusive user sending\n > thousands of messages to another user, filling up that users\n > mailbox. The bounce messages ended up in my mailbox, overflowing\n > my local disk as well.\n > \n > I can only suppose that your message got lost in that hassle, as\n > I have tried to answer as much as possible of the anon-related\n > messages I get, from routine mis-addessed messages to complaints\n > about the service. On the average I spend 4-5 hours per day\n > answering anon-related messages.\n \n From: Karl_Kleinpaste@cs.cmu.edu\n \n > Why is it that everybody else has to put up with the impoliteness\n > and insensitivity of the misuse of anon.penet.fi? Whose\n > definitions of \"polite\" and \"sense\" apply, and why? Why is\n > universal anon access considered to be within the realm of this\n > fuzzy concept of \"politeness\" in the first place?\n > \n > I think Johan has long since crossed the line into being a rude\n > bastard, and I told him so in private mail a little while ago.\n > \n > At this point, I deeply regret [a] having created an anonymous\n > system supporting >1 newsgroup and [b] having given the code to\n > Johan. I didn't copyright it, but I thought that some concept of\n > politeness and good sense might follow it to new\n > homes. Interesting that Johan's ideas of politeness and good\n > sense seem to have nearly no interesection with mine. I could\n > even cope with universal anon access _if_ Johan would be willing\n > to engage in abuse control, but somehow that seems to be outside\n > the range of reality...\n\n From: julf@penet.fi (Johan Helsingius)\n \n > There is no way for me to convey how sad and upset your message\n > made me. I do, to some extent, understand your feelings, but it\n > still feels really bad. Running the server requires getting used\n > to a lot of flames, but mindlessly abusive hate mail is so much\n > easier to deal with than something like this, as I do respect and\n > value your views and opinions to a high degree. No, I'm not\n > asking for sympathy, I just wanted you to know that I am really\n > giving your views quite a lot of weight.\n > \n > When I asked for the software, I was actually only going to\n > provide the service to scandinavian users. But a lot of people\n > requested that I keep the service open to the international\n > community. I now realize that I ought to have contacted you at\n > that point to ask how you feel about me using your stuff in such\n > a context. Again, I really want to apologise. And I will replace\n > the remaining few pieces of code thet still stem from your\n > system. Unfortunately there is no way to remove the ideas and\n > structure I got from you.\n > \n > Again, I am really sorry that the results of your work ended up\n > being used in a way that you don't approve of. And I will be\n > giving a lot of hard thought to the possibility of shutting down\n > the server alltogether.\n \n From: Karl_Kleinpaste@cs.cmu.edu\n \n > I think I'm feeling especially rude and impolite. If it's good\n > for Johan, it's good for me. After all, he didn't ask the\n > greater Usenet whether universal anon access was a good idea; he\n > just did it. ... Yes, I'm a seriously rude pain in the ass now,\n > and I think I'll arm the Usenet Death Penalty, slightly modified,\n > not for strategic whole-site attack, but tactical assault, just\n > \"an[0-9]*@anon.penet.fi\" destruction. Only outside alt.*, too,\n > let's say.\n > \n > To parrot this line...people have been doing things like the UDP\n > (that is, cancelling others' postings) for years, no one could\n > ever stop them, and it's only politeness and good sense that has\n > prevented them up to now.\n > \n > In fact, I have 8 people who have expressed privately the desire\n > and ability to arm the UDP.\n > \n > ...\n > \n > PS- No, in fact there are not 8 newsadmins ready to arm the\n > UDP. It would be amusing to know how many people gulped hard\n > when they read that, though. I don't see it as any different\n > from Johan's configuration.\n > \n > PPS- Now that I've calmed some fears by the above PS... There\n > are 2 newsadmins ready to arm the UDP. They've asked for my\n > code. I haven't sent it yet. Only one site would be necessary\n > to bring anon.penet.fi to a screeching halt. Anyone can\n > implement the UDP on their own, if they care to. Politeness and\n > good sense prevents them from doing so. I wonder how long before\n > one form of impoliteness brings on another form.\n\n From: julf@penet.fi (Johan Helsingius)\n \n > It would be trivially easy to bring anon.penet.fi to a screeching\n > halt. In fact it has happened a couple of times already. But as\n > we are talking threats here, let me make one as well. A very\n > simple one. If somebody uses something like the UDP or\n > maliciously brings down anon.penet.fi by some other means, it\n > will stay down. But I will let the users know why. And name the\n > person who did it. OK? As somebody said on this thread: \"You have\n > to take personal responsibility for your actions\", right?\n \n From: avs20@ccc.amdahl.com ( 134 Atul V Salgaonkar)\n \n > I am very grateful and appreciative of this service , courtesey of\n > penet.fi. Some important questions about my personal\n > life/career/job were resolved due to kind help of other people\n > who had been thru similar situations. In return, I have also\n > replied to anon postings where I thought I could make a positive\n > contribution.\n > \n > In general, anon service is a great, in my opinion, although like\n > any tool some people will not use it responsibly. I suggest that\n > it should be kept alive. Wasting bandwidth is less important than\n > saving lives, I think.\n \n From: us273532@mmm.serc.3m.com (Elisa J. Collins)\n \n > I have been informed that the anonymous posting service to many\n > newsgroups has been turned off as a result of discussions in this\n > newsgroup over people abusing it.\n > \n > I had been posting to a nontechnical misc newsgroup about an\n > intimate topic for which I felt I required privacy. I have\n > received immeasurable help from the people in that newsgroup, and\n > I have never used anonymity to behave in an abusive, immature, or\n > unethical fashion toward anyone.\n > \n > Please, folks, believe me, I *need* this service. Please\n > consider my point of view and permit admin@anon.penet.fi to turn\n > the service back on...\n > \n > Thank you.\n\n* * *\n\nSEE ALSO\n========\n\nPart 1 (first file)\n------\n\n<1.1> What is `identity' on the internet?\n<1.2> Why is identity (un)important on the internet?\n<1.3> How does my email address (not) identify me and my background?\n<1.4> How can I find out more about somebody from their email address?\n<1.5> Why is identification (un)stable on the internet? \n<1.6> What is the future of identification on the internet?\n\n<2.1> What is `privacy' on the internet?\n<2.2> Why is privacy (un)important on the internet?\n<2.3> How (in)secure are internet networks?\n<2.4> How (in)secure is my account?\n<2.5> How (in)secure are my files and directories?\n<2.6> How (in)secure is X Windows?\n<2.7> How (in)secure is my email?\n<2.8> How am I (not) liable for my email and postings?\n<2.9> How do I provide more/less information to others on my identity?\n<2.10> Who is my sysadmin? What does s/he know about me?\n<2.11> Why is privacy (un)stable on the internet?\n<2.12> What is the future of privacy on the internet?\n\n<3.1> What is `anonymity' on the internet?\n<3.2> Why is `anonymity' (un)important on the internet?\n<3.3> How can anonymity be protected on the internet?\n<3.4> What is `anonymous mail'?\n<3.5> What is `anonymous posting'?\n<3.6> Why is anonymity (un)stable on the internet?\n<3.7> What is the future of anonymity on the internet?\n\nPart 2 (previous file)\n------\n\n<4.1> What UNIX programs are related to privacy?\n<4.2> How can I learn about or use cryptography?\n<4.3> What is the cypherpunks mailing list?\n<4.4> What are some privacy-related newsgroups? FAQs?\n<4.5> What is internet Privacy Enhanced Mail (PEM)?\n<4.6> What are other Request For Comments (RFCs) related to privacy?\n<4.7> How can I run an anonymous remailer?\n<4.8> What are references on privacy in email?\n<4.9> What are some email, Usenet, and internet use policies?\n<4.10> What is the MIT ``CROSSLINK'' anonymous message TV program?\n\n<5.1> What is ``digital cash''?\n<5.2> What is a ``hacker'' or ``cracker''?\n<5.3> What is a ``cypherpunk''?\n<5.4> What is `steganography' and anonymous pools?\n<5.5> What is `security through obscurity'?\n<5.6> What are `identity daemons'?\n<5.7> What standards are needed to guard electronic privacy?\n\n<6.1> What is the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF)?\n<6.2> Who are Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility (CPSR)?\n<6.3> What was `Operation Sun Devil' and the Steve Jackson Game case?\n<6.4> What is Integrated Services Digital Network (ISDN)?\n<6.5> What is the National Research and Education Network (NREN)?\n<6.6> What is the FBI's proposed Digital Telephony Act?\n<6.7> What other U.S. legislation is related to privacy on networks?\n<6.8> What are references on rights in cyberspace?\n<6.9> What is the Computers and Academic Freedom (CAF) archive?\n\n<7.1> What is the background behind the Internet?\n<7.2> How is Internet `anarchy' like the English language?\n<7.3> Most Wanted list\n<7.4> Change history\n\n\n* * *", "Concerning the proposed newsgroup split, I personally am not in favor of\ndoing this. I learn an awful lot about all aspects of graphics by reading\nthis group, from code to hardware to algorithms. I just think making 5\ndifferent groups out of this is a wate, and will only result in a few posts\na week per group. I kind of like the convenience of having one big forum\nfor discussing all aspects of graphics. Anyone else feel this way?\nJust curious.\n", "\n \tActually, You're wrong as well. The KKK is allowed to\nmarch and any attempts to curtail their freedom is rejected\n(Actually I believe the ACLU won a case for them last year). \n\tMorality should not be legilated in a free country like\nthe U.S. \n\tI'll post something on TJ and Uva under Uva for those\nHoos bashers.\n", "\nThis was on \"That's Incredible\" several years ago. The volume of liquid\nthe rat had to breath was considerably smaller than what a human would have\nto breath, so maybe it is possible for a rat but not a human.", "hIn article \n\n\nFar more effective than mass mailing of a standard letter (this is taken\nusually to represent one pressure group) is a set of individual letters.\n\nPerhaps Nathaniel Sammons or someone else would like to prepare a set of\n\"talking points\" from which individuals could compose their own letters.\n", "Static test firings are now scheduled for this Saturday.....after many\nschedule changes.....", "1) I think that most of us can afford a stamp and an envelope, and the\ncost of printing out a letter.\n\n2) If some kind soul out there would write a letter, and upload it to \nthe net, everyone could capture it, print it out, and snail-mail it\nout to their local congressional critter.\n\nBTW>> I'm working on one.\n\n-nate", "\n\n\nNot any more the rules don't say that. So that's a pretty dumb argument.\n\n", "From article , by creps@lateran.ucs.indiana.edu (Stephen A. Creps):\n\nJust a little issue of semantics:\n\nWould it not be better, then to call it \"pre-determination\"?!\n\n--\n\n RRRRR OO BBBBB :\n R R OO OO B B :\n R R OO OO B BB : Robert Pomeroy\n R RR O O B B :\n RRRR O O BBBBB : u2i02@keele.ac.uk\n R R O O B B :\n R R OO OO B BB : 1993\n R R OO OO B B :\n R R OO BBBBB :\n\n\n\n My address }\n during } Hawthorns Hall, KEELE, Staffordshire, ST5 5AE. England.\n term-time. }\n", "\n\nAs far as a member of the Armed Forces is concerned, the\nPresident is whatever the h*ll he wants to be. All of them\nrecently have rather insisted on being treated as something\nother than a *mere* civilian.\n\n\nSo if Hilary were asleep at the time......\n\n\nI like living in a country where the head of state is not\na military officer too. But this point about not using the\nmilitary as the first choice for solving domestic problems....\n\nDidn't they go after these Branch Davidians with a *tank*,\nafter all?\n\n", "\n\n\nI think that you are changing the meaning of \"values\" here. Perhaps\nit is time to backtrack and take a look at the word.\n\nvalue n. 1. A fair equivalent or return for something, such as goods\nor service. 2. Monetary or material worth. 3. Worth as measured in \nusefulness or importance; merit. 4. A principle, standard, or quality\nconsidered inherently worthwhile or desirable. 5. Precise meaning, as\nof a word. 6. An assigned or calculated numerical quantity. 7. Mus. \nThe relative duratation of a tone or rest. 8. The relative darkness or\nlightness of a color. 9. The distinctive quality of a speech or speech\nsound. \n\nIn context of a moral system, definition four seems to fit best. In terms\nof scientific usage, definitions six or eight might apply. Note that\nthese definitions do not mean the same thing.\n\nIn my mind, to say that science has its basis in values is a bit of a\nreach. Science has its basis in observable fact. Even the usages of the\nword \"value\" above do not denote observable fact, but rather a standard\nof measurement. I would conclude that science does not have its\nbasis in values, and so your statement above fails. In fact, if one\nconcludes that a scientific set of measurements (values) are based on\nsystems derived from observation, then it must follow that in a\nscientific context, there is no such thing as there is no such thing as\n\"objective values.\"\n\nBack to the present. This has nothing to do with a moral system anyhow.\nJust because the word \"values\" is used in both contexts does not mean\nthat there is a relationship between the two contexts.\n\nIf one is to argue for objective values (in a moral sense) then one must\nfirst start by demonstrating that morality itself is objective. Considering\nthe meaning of the word \"objective\" I doubt that this will ever happen.\n\nSo, back to the original question:\n\nAnd objective morality is.....?\n\nIf you can provide an objective foundation for \"morality\" then that will\nbe a good beginning.\n", "I've recently been reading a paper of Merkle's (publixhed only on the\nnet, I think) discussing three potential replacements for DES. Was\nanyting ever done with these? Are Khufu, Khafre, and/or Snefru still\nbeing discussed anywhere? (I know Snefru is referenced in the RSA\nFAQ, and I think it may also be in the sci.crypt FAQ.)\n On a related topic, can anyone point me toward good sites to find\npapers/articles/discussions of cryptology? I think I've about exhausted\nthe Math/Sci library here, which doesn't seem to have anything more recent\nthan about '84.\n \n Thanks.", "Yesterday I read an article from someone who was requesting references for\nintroductory texts on cryptography. Although I marked the article to\nreturn, it appears to have expired on this site.\n\nAnyway, on one of the previous occasions when this subject arose I saved\na couple articles which made suggestions. One of the articles contained\na quite impressive bibliography. If the poster of the request (or anyone\nelse) would like to email me, I would be glad to send out copies of these\nrecommendations, including the bibliography.\n\nDavid R. Conrad\t\t\"No his mind is not for rent/To any god or government\"", "I would like to sell my Logitech Hand-held 256 Gray Scale Scanner. I\noriginally bought it as a toy and have no practical use for it. Hardly\never used it.\n\nPackage includes:\n-board\n-Scan-Mate software\n-Ansel Image Editing software\n-All original manuals, box, etc.\n\nOriginally bought for $350 in Jan '92.\nSelling for $150.", "\n\n\tB urn\n\tA ll\n\tT he\n\tF uckers\n", "\nGo-Video machines used in HQ2 mode will copy even the MacroVision.\nGo-Video phone number (602)998-3400. \n\nAsk for sales department. Since the state of Arizona does not go on \nDaylight Savings time, we effectively are in Pacific time zone.", "\nThis sounds wonderful, but it seems no one either wants to spend time doing\nthis, or they don't have the power to do so. For example, I would like\nto see a comp.graphics architecture like this:\n\ncomp.graphics.algorithms.2d\ncomp.graphics.algorithms.3d\ncomp.graphics.algorithms.misc\ncomp.graphics.hardware\ncomp.graphics.misc\ncomp.graphics.software/apps\n\nHowever, that is almost overkill. Something more like this would probably\nmake EVERYONE a lot happier:\n\ncomp.graphics.programmer\ncomp.graphics.hardware\ncomp.graphics.apps\ncomp.graphics.misc\n\nIt would be nice to see specialized groups devote to 2d, 3d, morphing,\nraytracing, image processing, interactive graphics, toolkits, languages,\nobject systems, etc. but these could be posted to a relevant group or\nhave a mailing list organized.\n\nThat way when someone reads news they don't have to see these subject\nheadings, which are rather disparate:\n\nSystem specific stuff ( should be under comp.sys or comp.os.???.programmer ):\n\n\t\"Need help programming GL\"\n\t\"ModeX programming information?\"\n\t\"Fast sprites on PC\"\n\nHardware technical stuff:\n\n\t\"Speed of Weitek P9000\"\n\t\"Drivers for SpeedStar 24X\"\n\nApplications oriented stuff:\n\n\t\"VistaPro 3.0 help\"\n\t\"How good is 3dStudio?\"\n\t\"Best image processing program for Amiga\"\n\nProgramming oriented stuff:\n\n\t\"Fast polygon routine needed\"\n\t\"Good morphing alogirhtm wanted\"\n\t\"Best depth sort for triangles?\"\n\t\"Which C++ library to get?\"\n\nI wish someone with the power would get a CFD and then a CFV going on\nthis stuff....this newsgroup needs it.", "[reply to frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer)]\n \n \n \n \nFrom A Dictionary of Philosophy, by Anthony Flew:\n \n\"Objectivism: The belief that there are certain moral truths that would\nremain true whatever anyone or everyone thought or desired. For\ninstance, 'No one should ever deliberately inflict pain on another\nsimply to take pleasure in his suffering' might be thought of as a\nplausible example. Even in a world of sadists who all rejected it, the\ncontention remains true, just as '5 + 7 = 12' remains correct even if\nthere is no one left to count. The problem for the objectivist is to\ndetermine the status of moral truths and the method by which they can be\nestablished. If we accept that such judgements are not reports of what\nis but only relate to what ought to be (see naturalistic fallacy) then\nthey cannot be proved by any facts about the nature of the world. Nor\ncan they be analytic, since this would involve lack of action-guiding\ncontent; 'One ought always to do the right thing' is plainly true in\nvirtue of the vords involved but it is unhelpful as a practical guide to\naction (see analytic and synthetic). At this point the objectivist may\ntalk of 'self-evident truths', but can he deny the subjectivist's claim\nthat self-evidence is in the mind of the beholder? If not, what is left\nof the claim that some moral judgements are true? THe subjectivist may\nwell feel that all that remains is that there are some moral judgements\nwith which he would wish to associate himself. To hold a moral opinion\nis, he suggests, not to know something to be true but to have\npreferences regarding human activity.\"", "\n\n\n\n\n\nI agree fully with the above statement and is *precisely* what I meant\nby my previous statements about Islam not being anarchist and the\nlaw not being _enforcible_ despite the _law_ being applicable. \n\n\n\n\nI disagree with this conclusion about the _applicability_ of the \nIslamic law to all muslims, wherever they may be. The above conclusion \ndoes not strictly follow from the foregoing, but only the conclusion \nthat the fatwa cannot be *enforced* according to Islamic law. However, \nI do agree that the punishment cannot be applied to Rushdie even *were*\nit well founded.\n\n\n\nCertainly putting a price on the head of Rushdie in Britain is a criminal \nact according to Islamic law. \n\n\n\nYes.\n\n\n\n", "I AM Satan!\n\n", "You can be sure they wouldn't do it if it wasn't to their advantage.", ": \n: .\n: It's my understanding that the U.S. Supreme Court has never \n: given a legal definition of religion. This despite the many \n: cases involving religion that have come before the Court. \n: Can anyone verify or falsify this? \n: Has any state or other government tried to give a legal \n: definition of religion? \n\nAccording to the legal practices of today's America, I imagine the legal\ndefinition of religion, if defined, may resemble the following:\n\n\t\"Any system of belief or practice to which people are committed\n\tfor the benefit of society which must, in the opinion of secular\n\tthought, be isolated from political and educational influence.\"\n\n\t\"Should any system of belief or practice to which people are\n\tcommitted be harmful or void of any benefit to society in the\n\topinion of religious thought as defined in the previous paragraph,\n\tisolation of such from political and educational influence would\n\tconstitute unreasonable censorship and an unlawful violation of\n\tcivil rights.\"", "\n\n\n\nWhich sort of loans and what have you heard exactly?\n", "Pardon me for interrupting, but why doesn't anyone ever bring up other\npossibilities besides more government, less government, or no government\nand stop there? It seems to me that the problems with society go MUCH\ndeeper than government. Democracies seem to reflective of the majority\nof society, both the good and the bad. If you take away the government,\nyou still have the structural flaws in society, except this time, with\nno restraints. Yes? No?\n\tWhy doesn't anybody ever discuss communal society, like a\nkibbutz? I never studied it on depth, but from what I've heard, the kibbutz\nin Isreal was very successful. It is also very close to what Aristotle\nand Socrates believed was the best.\n\tSorry to detract from the discussion.\n\n\nBut what good is change if there is no tracable improvement in the human\ncondition? Who would ever support the change if you tell them it won't \nimprove their lives? I know that there are, and will be, libertarians \nwho will jump in now and say that it WILL improve our lives. I can deal\nwith that. All I'm saying is that improving the human condition must\nbe the PRIMARY goal of any organization.\n\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\"Who said anything about panicking?\" snapped Authur. Garrett Johnson\n\"This is still just culture shock. You wait till I've Garrett@Ingres.com\nsettled into the situation and found my bearings.\nTHEN I'll start panicking!\" - Douglas Adams ", "I am a new reader of sci.crypt I would like to obtain a copy of a\npublic domain program that can encrypt files, preferably using DES,\nthat runs under MS-DOS.\n\nI would also like to obtain a program which will password protect\nfloppy disks, if this is possible.\n\nThanks.", "mcsdc1jpb@dct.ac.uk (John Bell) babbles from Scotland, one of England's\nlast remaining colonies:\n\n\n\nPeople who were dumb enough to believe Klinton was a moderate deserve what\nthey get too. It's a real laugh to hear them try to justify this massacre\nwith bullsh*t about how concerned they were about how our tax money was\nwas being spent. (Wasting money keeping Texans alive? Hell no. let's\nspend it to import Haitians with AIDS so we can treat them at taxpayer\nexpense. %^P )\n\n\nSo what? The Feds killed 90+ civilians when they \"ran out of patience\", to use\ntheir own phrase. If the Feds hadn't attacked them, they'd all be home eating \ndinner with their families tonight. Too bad, but they started it. Maybe\nnext time they'll think twice. That's worth 4 stormtroopers.\n\n\nNobody says he is. What he was was a victim of a left-wing government,\nthat violated its pledge to protect and uphold the Constitution, run amok. \nDon't worry, though dweeb, we're gonna take it back. (Hey, I'm a white guy,\nbut would it be OK if I quoted Malcolm X here, and said \"by any means \nnecessary\"? Nah, never mind. We can do this legally...\n\n\nNO, you're just a brainless f*cking trogladyte. Go beat up some soccer\nfans. Ignorance is bliss, so drool on with that stupid smile on your \nface when people die needlessly. I hope a badger climbs up your kilt.\n\n(Don't expect these UKies to care about this, folks... these bastards\nnever did like the idea that we Americans had the means to defend ourselves \nand wouldn't stand for tyranical governments, which is why we sent them packing \nback to their dreary little island with their tails between their legs twice.)\n\n\n", "Does anyone out there have any info on the up and coming fall comdex '93? I was\nasked by one of my peers to get any info that might be available. Or, could\nanyone point me in the right direction? Any help would be appreciated.\n", "\nI beleive this was the source of the Kennedy clan's money.\nJim\n--\njmd@handheld.com", "In NEIL B. GANDLER \n\n:> I am an electrical engineering student and its a must that I get familiar\n:> with spice. I have been using it and getting used to it but it would\n:> be great to have a good reference manual that explains everything in an\n:> organized and concise. I current have \"A guide to circuit simulation &\n:> Analysis using spice\". I feel it has the information is just randomly placed\n:> in the book and its not easy to look up small things when you just\n:> need a good reference book. I would appreciate any info. Thanks\n\nThere is a postscript manual at ic.berkeley.edu in pub/spice3/um.3f.ps\ndirectory (about 650kbytes, 126 pages).", "\n\nDo you, by any chance own an SHO or have access to one, such that you\nwould have any idea what it is designed for or how it handles?\n\nJust wondering...\n", "\n\nAre you certain you didn't mean to post \nto alt.french.captain.borg.borg.borg?\n\nYou'd better rush home...I hear Kruschev \ncalling \"Come to papa, jrm@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu!\"", "\n\tYou are talking about the man who as a federal attorney did so\nmuch to frustrate the proper investigation of the JFK assassination by\nthe House sub-committee on assassinations. Fox and hen house???\n", "\n\n\n\n\nWhoa, dude I don't see the jump you made.\n\t\tShe was blessed, I'll give you that much.\n\t\tWhat do you mean, she was placed \"beyond\" \n\n\n\n\n\nthe sanctification of normal humanity.", "\n\n\n \n\n\nThe Bill of Rights, as far as I can see, does not once refer to \"citizens\",\nbut it makes several references to \"people\". For example, Article IV:\n\"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers,\nand effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be\nviolated\"; Article V: \"no person shall be held to answer for a capital,\nor otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment by\na Grand Jury ... nor shall any person ... be deprived of life, liberty,\nor property, without due process of law\"; Article VIII: \"excessive bail\nshall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual\npunishments inflicted\".\n\nNow I've never heard that Constitutional rights apply only to citizens;\naren't they meant to apply equally to all *persons* living in the U.S.?\nWhether slaves were considered \"not human\" I don't know, but it seems\nthat a case could be made that they weren't treated as \"people\" as defined\nin the Bill of Rights. And since the nation is nominally based on the\nDeclaration of Independence which states that \"all Men are created equal,\nthat they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,\nthat among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness\",\nit would also seem that slaves would not follow under this definition\nof humanity.\n", "\nThat's not all that Kratz doesn't know.\n\n\nNow we know that Kratz doesn't understand what a safety is supposed to\ndo. (He also confuses \"things he can see\" with \"things that exist\";\nGlocks have multiple safeties even though only one is visible from the\noutside.)\n\nA safety is supposed to keep the gun from going off UNLESS that's\nwhat the user wants. With Glocks, one says \"I want the gun to go\noff\" by pulling the trigger. If the safeties it has make that work,\nit has a \"real\" safety, no matter what Kratz thinks.\n\n-andy", "\nI'm really surprised Clinton hasn't already tried to do this. He seems\nto want to tackle other irrelevant issues first, so why not this one as well.\n\n\nWrong. We need its capability. Sure it has its problems, very few\nairplanes haven't, but getting rid of something we need is not the\nanswer. What do you want to do, start over a rebuild a new airplane\nfrom scatch? It'll have its problems as well and there will be calls\nagain, for it to be scrapped. THe other option is to try to extend\nthe life of the C-5s and C-141s that are getting extremely old.\n\n\nIt'll cost jobs, but I'm for it. We especially don't need a B-2. THe\nSSN-21, I know litttle about.", "seanna@bnr.ca (Seanna (S.M.) Watson) asks:\n > What is the objection to celebration of Easter?\n \n The objection naturally is in the way in which you phrase it. \nEaster (or Eashtar or Ishtar or Ishtarti or other spellings) is the pagan\nwhore goddess of fertility. Therefore, your question to me is \"what is\nthe objection to celebration of the pagan whore goddess?\" When phrased\nthat way I suspect (or at least I would HOPE) that it becomes immeadiately\napparent what my objection to \"celebrating\" her would be.\n \n > It is celebration of the resurrection of Jesus.\n \n No, you are thinking perhaps of \"Ressurection Sunday\" I think. \n(Though I'm not too crazy about the word \"Sunday\", but I certainly like\nthis phrasing much better than envoking the name of the whore goddess.)\n For that matter, stay Biblical and call it Omar Rasheet (The Feast of\nFirst Fruits). Torah commands that this be observed on the day following\nthe Sabbath of Passover week. (Sunday by any other name in modern\nparlance.) Why is there so much objection to observing the Resurrection\non the 1st day of the week on which it actually occured? Why jump it all\nover the calendar the way Easter does? Why not just go with the Sunday\nfollowing Passover the way the Bible has it? Why seek after unbiblical\nmethods?\n \n > I don't recall a command in Scripture for us to celebrate\n > the resurrection, but it is the sole and only reason that\n > we are Christians--how could we not celebrate it?\n \n So what does this question have to do with Easter (the whore\ngoddess)? I am all for celebrating the Resurrection. Just keep that\nwhore out of the discussion.\n \n > If it is only the name which is a problem, I suggest that if\n > we are too concerned about etymology, there are a lot of\n > words we are going to have to drop. (As an aside, some\n > terminally PC people here in Ottawa want dictionaries to be\n > altered so that there are no negative definitions associated\n > with the word _black_, so as not to offend people of colour.\n \n Yes, I have heard of your newspapers speaking of the need to repave\nstreets with \"Afro-Canadiantop\". (I still think \"blacktop\" sounds\nbetter though.)\n \n > As a short person, I hope they will also remove the definition\n > \"curt or surly\" associated with my physical description.)\n \n Fine by me. And while we are at it, the left-handed people are\nboth \"sinister\" and \"gauche\" so we probably will have some objections from\nthat quarter as well.\n \n > In Quebec French, the word for the celebration of the\n > resurrection is \"Pa^ques\"--this is etymologically related\n > to Pesach (Passover) and the pascal lamb. So is the\n > French Canadian (mostly Roman Catholic) celebration better\n > because it uses the right name?\n \n Yes, that sounds much better to me. Is there anyone out there would\nthinks that phrasing sounds worse?\n \n > So from this I infer that there are different rules for\n > Christians of Jewish descent? What happened to \"there is\n > neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for\n > all are one in Christ Jesus\"?\n \n Read the letter to Philemon. Now tell me, was Philemon's \"slave\"\nreturned to him? Were there different rules upon the slave than upon\nPhilemon? How about male and female? Are there different \"rules\" that\napply to them as well? Or if there is no more \"male and female\" can Adam\nand Steve get married to each other in your congregation? Yes, there are\ndifferences in form and function. But the way we come to Salvation in\nMessiah remains the same no matter what our position in life.\n \n---------------------------------------\n\n[I am in general not in favor of continuing this discussion, as it\nseems repetitive, but this particular point is one that I believe is\nnew -- the objection is not to having a holiday but to its name.\n\nI'd like to suggest that people think very carefully about this\nargument. Words often change their meaning over time. The days of\nthe week are of course originally based on pagan gods. Some\nChristians prefer to refer to \"first day\", \"second day\", etc. However\nthe majority of Christians have not been persuaded. The question\nseems to be whether it makes any difference what the dictionary shows\nas the derivation of a word, if what people mean by it and think when\nthey use it is different.\n\nIndeed I'd like to suggest that postings like this could themselves be\ndangerous. Suppose people in general use Easter to mean the\ncelebration of Christ's resurrection. Postings trying to convince\nthem that they really mean a celebration in honor of some godess run\nthe risk of creating exactly the situation that they claim to oppose.\nThey are doing their best to *create* a linkage in people's minds\nbetween their celebration and the pagan goddess. It's not clear that\nthis is a healthy thing.", "\nThat's one. Any others?\n\n\nThen they should have used a different advert.\n\n\nI'm both. I've made some $4k worth of PC products purchasing\ndecisions for one company I'm affiliated with in the past 6 months\nalone. (In a delicious bit of irony, an interesting fraction went to\nsuppliers that I suspect got my mailing address from these people.)\nMore is in the pipeline right now.\n\nIf they wanted to discuss these sorts of things, upfront is the\nway to do it.\n\n\nAnd who issues that \"VIP Code\"? (That policy implementation in the\nrunning for this week's \"silly twit\" award.) BTW - It turns out that\nI have several VIP codes. Here's the one I'm using for these sorts of\nthings: \"6\". (If you want one, send me mail and I'll put you in touch\nwith the folks who do the application interview; if you qualify....)\n\n-andy", "\n\nThis is a difficult problem for which there is no obviously good\nsolution. One approach is simply to try and move political opinion\nand hope a new more libertarian consensus lasts for a while. Another\napproach is to try and amend the constitution. The original\nconstitution restrained the U.S. government from economic intervention\nfor 100 to 150 years, depending on just how one wants to count it.\nThe First Amendment, though weakened in many ways, still restrains\ngovernment (particularly state and local), even though on many\nparticular issues the majority is in favor of censorship. I think\nlibertarians would be happy with another 100 years of restraint via\nan amendment or two (not that I think that's likely to happen).\n\nNot necessarily Mr. Hendricks, but other posters seem to see this as\na problem with libertarianism, that it cannot be stable. That might\nbe true, but it is not an objection to libertarianism per se. If\na libertarian political consensus forms for a decade or two and then\nfalls apart again, we would just be back where we are now. This is\nunlike the case for socialism where a socialist consensus that held\nfor a while and then fell apart would not leave us where we are now,\nbut instead with lots of bureaucracy that would be hard to get rid of,\nif not tyranny as the end condition of a strong socialist consensus.", "\n\nBefore they do some real damage?? You haven't been paying attention, it\nseems. The so-called War on Drugs has already done major damage to\nthe US Constitution.", "Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc\nSubject: On-line copy of Book of Mormon\nSummary: \nDistribution: usa\nOrganization: Advanced Decision Systems, Mtn. View, CA (415) 960-7300\nKeywords: BOM, Book of Mormon, Mormon\n\nCan anyone provide me a ftp site where I can obtain a online version\nof the Book of Mormon. Please email the internet address if possible.", "Yes, I want to read such a article.\n", "Dear Fellow Usenet Users:\n\n\tI would like to give a formal apology for posting an advertisement \nabout my printing business. I did not intend this to be an advertisement, \nbut rather an offer for people on the usenet, many of whom use printing\non a regular basis. I was not aware that this is not \"legal\" on the usenet.\nI am only trying to put myself through college. For those of you who\nrequested information, I will write to you privately. For those of you who \nare having fun flooding my mailbox, I think you can grow up. To offer advice\nis one thing, but to use profanity toward me is another.\n\nThank you, ", "\nduh, why not just chop out the .sig?\n\nbob vesterman.\n\nps: hey kids, take all those pictures of dead presidents out of your\nparents' wallets and mail them to:", "\n\nMay I suggest the book: \"Ethics\" by Dr. Norm Geisler, of Dallas Theological\nSeminary. In it, he goes over all the arguments pro and con and in-between,\nand comes up with a very reasonable answer. If I have time, and there is\nenough interest, I may post his position.\n\nJon Noring\n\n-- \n\nCharter Member --->>> INFJ Club.", "Are the Serbs doing the work of God? Hmm...\n\nI've been wondering if anyone would ever ask the question,\n\nAre the governments of the United States and Europe not moving\nto end the ethnic cleansing by the Serbs because the targets are\nmuslims?\n\nCan/Does God use those who are not following him to accomplish\ntasks for him? Esp those tasks that are punative?", "I have a Logitech 256grays hand scanner from a PC. I'm wondering if anyone\nhas been successful in connecting the scanner to a mac? It has the same\nconnector and is a serial device on the pc. I can imagine the pins coniguration would need to changeed, but I'm not sure if the signal levels would be correct,\nand if the mac s/w would work with it. \n\nOf course the manuals say nothing about the interface, connector layout or\nanything H/W-ish!\n\nAny ideas??\n\n\nthanx,", "\n\nRick has nailed the problem down pretty well.\n\nAs I can find no Scripture (have I missed it ?) that details\nwhen you are married, I have to make some assumptions based\non the PRINCIPLES of Scripture. \n\nIt seems to me that it takes 3 parties to make a marriage:\nhusband-to-be, wife-to-be, and God. If you promise before\neach other and God that you will convenant together to be\nmarried, then...you are (IMO).\n\nSo why do we have the ceremonial part ? That seems to be\nthere for \"connectedness\" in the Body of Christ. My brothers\nand sisters ought to be involved so that there can be some\naccountability on both our parts. That's part of the concept\nfrom Hebrews about \"not forsaking the assembling of yourselves\ntogether as is the custom of some.\" We need each other because\nLone Ranger Christians and Lone Ranger Marriages smack of a\nself sufficiency that the I don't see in the NT. Does anyone\nsee the Paul Simon \"I am a rock, I am an island...\" model anywhere\nin Christianity. (Song lyrics show your age :-) ) ?\n\nFurther, since marriage is a legal matter/institution in the USA\nand many other places, and such laws do not specifically go\ncrosswise to the clear teachings of Scripture, we ought to\nobey them to avoid even the appearance of \"evil\" (I Thess 5:22)\n\nSo this would imply at least a civil ceremony before marriage,\nbut keep in mind we are at least doing all of this for the \nconscience of others because back to the beginning...you are\nmarried when you and your intended promise each other and God\nto be in convenant. (IMO)\n\nWhat ch'all think ?\n\nBobby - akgua!rjb", "CNN just reported the ATF and the FBI have begun killing everyone in the\nUnited States. A press release stated this action was required because\nbugs had revealed that many people were doing something illegal in their\nhomes, and statistical data indicated that those who weren't might someday\ndo something illegal. An ATF spokesperson, just before he shot himself, stated\nthat \"this would clean up things once and for all\".\n\nIf the citizens can be gathered into groups of more than 100, the FBI has\nindicated they will \"burn them, just like we did those kooks in Waco\". \nIt hasn't been decided how the new proposed \"energy tax\" will enter into\nthis, an IRS representative stated \"We're looking at the tax code to determine\nif taxes really end at death. With this many dead Americans, we don't want\nto overlook anything\". An ATF agent ran into the room, and shot her.", "Eric H. Taylor writes", ": \n: Seriously, though, Griffen didn't save the lives of children, and he did\n: destroy the life of a man, so on the most superficial of levels, he's scum.\n: \n\nI almost agree, but Griffen is not scum. Scum has no guilt or freedom to\nchoose anything. Griffen does. God did not make scum when he made Griffen.\nHe made a precious person and this person chose to do wrong. The same goes\nfor Dr. Gunn.\n\n: But if you are to examine it more closely, Griffen would have preferred that\n: these children were born -- yet AFTER their birth, did Griffen have any \n: assistance to offer them? Did Griffen intend to support them, educate them,\n: raise them up to be useful citizens? Did he have any intent whatsoever\n: to help these children after birth?\n: \n\nHere's the real problem. Americans have become so insensitive to the needs\nof others and so completely wrapped up in themselves that they cannot see\nstraight or think clearly enough to make even the slightest and most obvious\nmoral decisions based on reality.\n\nIf a man abandons a woman to care for their child on her own, he is not\nconsidered to be a very respectable or decent man by anyone. This man has\nfled his responsibility, has behaved like a lazy coward, and has turned\naway from his responsibility to his wife and child.\n\nHowever, if a woman decides to kill her unborn child to release her burden,\nshe is not thought of in the same way. When the man abandons, the woman\nsuffers but the child is free to grow up and live a happy and normal life.\nWhen the woman abandons, the child is diced or killed with saline or vacuumed\nout, and the man has no choice, and the man sometimes suffers so badly that\nhe wishes he could trade places with his child.\n\nThs root of this whole problem is selfishness--the arrogance that says, \"My\nfeelings and desires are supreme and your well being is not worth dung.\"\nAnd when you come down to it, this is the substance of what hell is made of.\nIt's the reason a loving God can throw selfish people to the devil and his\ndemons for all of eternity. Let any one of us unrepentant into heaven, and\nwe'll ruin it the first chance we get.\n\n: Now, I don't really know the answer to these questions, but I've got a real\n: good guess.\n: \n\nAnd, it's probably right.\n\n: And I wouldn't call *that* 'benevolent', either.\n: \n\nIt is a move in the right direction. As it is now, we don't see our\nresponsibility because we kill it and get it out of sight. The media\nbacks us completely. Real responsibility does not sell. The only\n\"responsibility\" that sells in the marketplace is that which is just\nenough to make us \"feel responsible\" without showing anything that\nmight show us our own true irresponsibility. We want to \"feel\" like\ngood people, but we want nothing with *being* good people. Just give\nme the freedom to say \"I'm good\", and the rest of the world can burn.\nRape and kill my children and throw my parents to the places where\npoor old folks rot until they're dead. I'll hate my brother and sister\nif I wish and I'll cheat on my wife or husband. Screw the government,\nbecause it screws me, and don't talk to me about giving to the church\nbecause church people are all a bunch of money grubbing hypocrites.\nBut, I'm a good person. At least I admit what I do. At least I love\nmyself and we all know that is the greatest love in the world--not that\na man lay down his life for his brother...That sounds too \"christian\".\n\nAt the root, this is the substance of what hell is made of.\n\nWe've become a self indulgant, backslidden society no longer responsible\nto our children, to our parents, to our families, to our government, or\nto our God. This is the root behind justification of every evil, of every\ncorruption in government, of every slanderous remark, of every lie, and\nof every murder. Society cannot continue to live like this long. it will\nhave to destroy itsself soon, and perhaps in the end, that will be the\nbiggest blessing this world can hope to see.\n\nWhy do people see so much evil in trying to turn this situation around?\n\n--\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\t\"I deplore the horrible crime of child murder...\n\t We want prevention, not merely punishment.\n\t We must reach the root of the evil...\n\t It is practiced by those whose inmost souls revolt\n\t from the dreadful deed...\n\t No mater what the motive, love of ease,\n\t\tor a desire to save from suffering the unborn innocent,\n\t\tthe woman is awfully guilty who commits the deed...\n\t but oh! thrice guilty is he who drove her\n\t\tto the desperation which impelled her to the crime.\"", "\nNo one has mentioned violence other than you, Mr. Han. I believe you\nare imagining things.\n\n--\nPerry Metzger\t\tpmetzger@shearson.com", "\n\nThis is always an option: when the sect is causing harm, re-label\nthe cult to something else.\n\nCheers,\nKent", "Hello, I'm doing a paper on censorship in music and I would appreciate it if you took the time to participate in this survey. Please answer as each question asks ('why?' simply means that you have room to explain your answer, if you chose.). The last question is for any comments, questions, or suggestions. Thank you in advance, please E-mail to the address at the end.\n\nI) are you [male/female]\nII) what is your age? \nIII)what is your major/occupation?\nIV) what type of music do you listen to (check all that apply)?\n a. hard rock b. metal c. alternative d. blues e. rap\n f. jazz g. soft rock h. easy listening i. country \n j. classical k. hard core l. dance m. new age\n n. others (did I miss any?)____________\n\n1) Do you think recordings with objectionable or offensive lyrics be labeled? [yes/no] Why?\n\n\n\n\n2) Do you think certain recordings should be banned from minors (under 18 years of age)? [yes/no] why?\n\n\n\n\n3) Do you think certain recordings should be banned. Period. [yes/no] Why?\n\n\n\n\n4) If yes to any of the above, who should decide:\n a. parents\n b. government\n c. music industry\n d. other________________\n\nfeel free to add any comments on this.\n\n\n\n\n\n5) Do you think [more/less] should be done for controling record sales, or do you think the present labeling system is enough? \n\n\n\n\n\n6) What is your definition of censorship? Also, feel free to add comments, suggestions, questions, or further explanations.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nPlease E-mail at: mtt@kepler.unh.edu or hit 'R' to reply.\n\nthanks.\nMatthew T. Thompson\n\n\ndisclaimer: if any responses are used in paper, they will be anoynamous (sp?) unless the person specifies they what their name to be used.\n\n\n-- \n*************This .sig is closed for repairs********************************", " > repeated lives on earth.", "\n[all deleted...]\n\nSam Zbib's posting is so confused and nonsensical as not to warrant a\nreasoned response. We're getting used to this, too.\n", " ( in <1993Apr16.163729.867@batman.bmd.trw.com> )\n ( responding to Dave \"First With Official A.A Nickname\" Fuller )\n \n[ ... ]\n\nThat means that it is an effective anti-recidivism measure. It does\nnot say that it deters an individual from committing a capital crime\nin the first place.\n\nThe true question is whether the threat of death is likely to actually\nstop one from murdering. (Or commiting treason -- are there any other\ncapital crimes anywhere in the USA?) That is, if there were no death\npenalty, would its introduction deter a would-be criminal from\ncommitting her/his crime? I doubt it.\n\nThis is only the first step. Even if it were a strong deterrent\n(short of being a complete deterrent) I would reject it. For what\nabout the case of the innocent executed?\n\nAnd even if we could eliminate this possibility, I would reject the\ndeath penalty as immoral. This makes me something of a radical on\nthe issue, although I think there are many opponents of captial\npunishment who agree with me, but who find the innocent executed the\nstrongest argument to make.\n\nI would, if magically placed in charge, facilitate state-aided suicide\nfor criminals who have life-sentences. This could be a replacement\nfor capital punishment. Those who don't want to live the rest of\ntheir lives in jail would always have this option.", "\n[On the issue of 'burning' nuclear wastes using particle beams...]\n\n\n\nI sometimes wonder if your newsfeed gives you different articles than\neveryone else, Pat. Just a *few* corrections:\n\n1) I never 'defended' 20kHz power, other than as something reasonable\nto GO LOOK AT.\n\n2) I have also never opposed a *research project* into feasibility of\nthe spalling reactor approach to 'cleaning' nuclear waste -- I simply\ndoubt it could be made to work in the Real World (tm), which ought to\nbecome clear fairly quickly during a research program into feasibility\n(sort of like what happened to 20 kHz power -- it proved to have a\ndown-side that was too expensive to overcome).\n\nI figure 2 things wrong in a single sentence is a high enough fault\ndensity for even you, Pat.\n\n\n\n-- \n\"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live\n in the real world.\" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden", "\n ~~15\n", "\nOnce again, Mark, you don't specify the means through which the government\nis to be prevented from becoming the tool of business interests. As a \nleft-wing, big government, conventional liberal, I'm just as willing as\nyou are to vote against anti-competitive regulations that favor auto\ndealers. \n\nBut what I hear from libertarians is a desire to limit incumbents' terms,\nto weaken government by eliminating its power to enforce antitrust laws,\nand a desire to eliminate legislator's pay. Each strikes me as a \nparticularly ineffective way to insure that auto dealers and other special\ninterests cannot influence public policy. In fact, they seem clearly\ndesigned to accomplish the opposite.\n\njsh", "\nI'm waiting for an RC to speak up ! 8-)\nNobody has, so I will...\n\nThose with Bibles on hand can give the exact chapter & verse...\nAt the time Jesus told Peter that he was the \"rock\", He said\nwhatever you hold true on earth is held true in heaven, and \nwhatever you don't hold true won't be true in heaven.\n\nTherefore, with respect to marriage, the ceremony has to be\ndone by an RC priest. No big parties required. Just the priest,\nthe couple and witnesses. \"Divorce\" is not allowed. But anullments\nare granted upon approval by either the bishop or the Pope \n(not sure if the Pope delegates this function).\n\n-- ", "\nWhen they're not important, yes. All scientists do. Otherwise science would\nnever get anywhere.\n\n\nHang about -- not atomic interactions in general. Just specific ones which\nare deemed unimportant. Like gravitational interactions between ions, which\nare so small they're drowned out by electrostatic effects, and so on.\n\n\nOh, probably. They still make people memorize equations and IR spectra. \nMaybe in a few decades they'll discover the revolutionary \"data book\"\ntechnique.\n", "Found this in soc.culture.pakistan\nMight be of interest..... am posting it without the permission of the original poster.\nHope he/she doesnt mind.\n\n\nBy Lance Gay, Scripps-Howard News Service\n \nSARAJEVO, Bosnia-Herzegovina -- In this land of historic hatreds, a tiny\nJewish community is braving Serbian shells to repay a 50-year-old debt to\nMuslims who saved Jews from the Holocaust.\n \nIvica Ceresnjes, president of the Jewish Community of Sarajevo, says he\nand about 1,000 other Jews chose to remain in Sarajevo, rather than leave\nfor Israel, to keep a feeding center in the medieval old town district\nrunning.\n \nCeresnjes said that was partly in gratitude to the Muslims who hid Jews during\nthe Nazi occupation and partly to keep intact the centuries-old presence of \nJews living in Sarajevo.\n \n``Some with guns are defending Bosnia, but I fight in Bosnia by keeping \npeople alive,'' Ceresnjes said.\n \nAs a student of Balkan history, Ceresnjes said he saw this war coming and \nhad ready plans to evacuate children and the elderly. A year before the war\nerupted here last April, Ceresnjes said the Jewish center began\nstockpiling supplies, ensuring everyone had passports and arranging for\nplaces in Israel and Europe for the evacuees.\n \nThey were so well prepared, he said, that only five days after the\nshooting began the first plane left. Of about 2,000 Jews in Bosnia-\nHerzegovina, he estimates half have left. Many of those who stayed behind\nwork in Sarajevo's downtown synagogue, which has been turned into a\nwartime feeding center that has so far given away 380,000 meals.\n \nThe center, which has been shelled several times along with most of\nSarajevo, also runs a radio station, mail center and distributes food\npackages sent by Jewish organizations around the world.\n \nWhile Muslims and Jews are fighting each other in the Mideast, Jews here\nsay there's a long tradition of cooperation, inter-marriage and\ntolerance between the two communities in Sarajevo that goes back to\ncenturies of Turkish occupation.\n \nSarajevo's Jews trace their ancestry back to their expulsion from Roman\nCatholic Spain in 1492. The community numbered more than 14,000 before\nWorld War II. But only 10% survived the Holocaust -- which was carried out\nby the pro-Nazi Croatian Ustache in Yugoslavia. Many of the survivors were\nhidden by Muslim families in Mostar.\n \n\n-- \nSharon Machlis Gartenberg\nFramingham, MA USA\ne-mail: sharon@world.std.com\n\n\n----------------------------------------\nZafar.\n\n\n", "%\n% Well, here goes. After lurking for a LONG time, I'll announce myself.\n% Yes, I'm the enemy.\n%\n\n Sorry Allan, but unless you happen to be the guy who watches T.V.\n while he's driving a white Toyota on route 129 between Atsugi and\n Hiratsuka, you're not even -close- to being \"the enemy\"!!\n\n-- \n ------------------------------------------------------------------------\n | John Little - gaijin@Japan.Sun.COM - Sun Microsystems. Atsugi, Japan | ", "\nYes, but whose freedom? The world in general doesn't seem to value the\nfreedom of Tibetans, for example.\n", "\nI totally agree with that sentiment. But why do you have to go further\nand advocate violating what God has set up? That is the question which\nyou have not answered from Scripture. You can worship on every day, as\nlong as you work. But God says the Sabbath is all mine.", "\nI'd hardly call that \"giving up his chance to be Vice President of the US\";\nthe chance of the Populist Party ticket winning is essentially nil. Still,\nit does imply that he doesn't want to be associated with Duke.", "You are such a LOSER!!!!\n********************************************************************\nSystem: fourd.com Phone: 617-494-0565\nCute quote: Being a computer means never having to say you're sorry\n********************************************************************\n", "Sorry, but I just wanted to be the first hypocrite to say it. I hope\nI'm not too late. Has everyone been watching their local/national\npoliticians?\n\nRick\n", "Sorry for posting this, but my e-mail keeps bouncing. Maybe it will\nhelp others here, anyway, and therefore I pray others will read this. It is\nactually a response from my Aunt, who has 5 kids, since I have none yet.\n\n I'm posting this for a good Christian relative who does not have e-mail\naccess. Since this aunt and uncle have 5 kids I felt they would be more\nrelevant than I, who have none (yet).\n\n 13-year-old (13YO) twins, 10YO boy, 6.5YO boy, 2YO girl\n\n I don't call it spanking, but they do, so yes, very rarely.\n\n I don't call it spanking because it's more of a reaction to something\nvery dangerous, such as trying to stick their finger in a fan or running\ninto the road. Maybe 3-4 times for each except for the 2YO girl, who has\nnot been spanked yet.\n They call it that because it *does* hurt their feelings, and of course\nI give all the hugs and stuff to ensure they know they're still loved.\n\n No, that would be too painful. If it's too traumatic they never recall\nwhy they were punished. Besides, it must be immediate, and taking the time\nto go get a toolmeans you're not doing it right away, and that lessens the\nimpact. It's very emotional for a child as it is - which is evidenced by the\nfact that a little slap on the rear - which hurts for perhaps 5 seconds -\nis called a spanking.\n Lots of logical consequences - for instance, when 4YO Matthew dared\na good friend to jump out of his treehouse or he would push him out, I made\nsure they didn't play together for 5 days so he'd know that would make him\nlose friends very quickly. He's never done anything like that since.\n We also use time-out in their rooms - I use a timer so they don't keep\narguing with me over leaving, since it's hard to argue with a macine.\nI will go to the closed door and tell them timeout won't be over until they\ncalm down if they're too tantrumy. I use the top of the stairs when they're\nreally young.\n\n 40\n\n Bath, Ohio. It's right outside of Akron, in the northeast part of Ohio.\n\n No, and none of my kids would dream of it. I hope you can use this to\nteach all parents that physical punishment isn't always required - parents use\nthat as an excuse to hit too hard.\n\n Lots of timeouts, same as I use. Our family and my husband's have never\nused spankings. In fact, my grandmother in law was one of 11 kids, and they\nwere almost never spanked. This was around the turn of the century. And,\nnone of us has ever been afoul of the law - man-made or God's law.\n Jesus says, referring to a small child whom he is holding, that \"what\nye do to the least of these, ye do also to me.\" The Bible also says in all\nthings to be kind, and merciful, and especially loving. (Colossians 3:12-15.)\nThere is no room for selfish anger, which I'll admit I've been tempted with\nat times. When I've felt like spanking hard in anger, maybe the kid deserved\na little slap on the rear, but what I would have given would have been the\ndevil's work. I could feel the temptation, and just angrily ordered the kid\nto his/her room and went to my room myself. After praying and asking God's\nforgiveness, I was much calmer, and did not feel like spanking, but felt that\nwhat I had done was enough punishment.", "My brother has been alienated from my parents and me since shortly after\nhis marriage to a domineering and insecure woman, about twelve years ago.\nWe've kept things on a painfully polite, Christmas-card sort of level\nfor most of this time. Attempts to see each other end disastrously, with\nhis wife throwing a screaming fit and storming out over either our imagined\nslights to her, or his inattention or insensitivity to her (I mean, this'll\nhappen by the end of a single restaurant meal). He seems, from what I've\nseen, to live in a state of quivering anxiety, hoping futilely to keep\nthe next storm from breaking. He has sacrificed not only meaningful contact\nwith us but also other friends and outside interests. Now, this is his\nchoice, and I need to accept it even if I deplore it. But it's hard.\n From time to time I've wanted to drop the pretense that we have a\nrelationship--by cutting off contact--or trying to have a real if painful\nrelationship, by talking honestly with him, but I've always thought, \"Why\nbe dramatic? And you know he'll only get evasive and then find some excuse\nto get off the phone. Just leave the door open, in case he ever decides to\ncome back.\" It's been an unsatisfying choice, to allow us to go on\nwith the superficial trappings of a relationship, but it was the best I\ncould think of.\n Now, this weekend, my mother finally decided that she wasn't going\nto pretend any more and has cut off relations with them. This was the\noutcome of a phone conversation in which my sister-in-law screamed and\nraved at my mother, blaming her for everything wrong in their lives, and\nin which my brother evaded, temporized, claimed the situation was\nbeyond his control, and as always expected my mother to make all the\nallowances and concessions. Mom said she would not, that she would not\nquietly take abuse any more, and that if these were the terms of their\nrelationship, she didn't want to talk to or see them any more. And she hung\nup. (I have never seem my mother lose her temper, and I think that this is\nthe first time she's ever hung up on someone.) Mom says she feels as if\nshe's divorced my brother, and that it's a relief in some ways to have the\nbreak out in the open and done with.\n \n I have mixed feelings. I'm proud of Mom for sticking up for herself;\nangry at my brother and sister-in-law for hurting her, for being jerks, for\npersisting in such a wretched life, which hurts us all and is warping their\nchildren; angry at my sister-in-law for being so hateful, and angry at my\nbrother for being a coward and having so little respect for himself or us\nthat he's willing to throw us aside and use up all his energy trying to\nappease an unappeasable,\nemotionally disturbed woman; pained for their children, who are a mess;\nscared for the future, since this marks the time when either things will\nchange and improve or the break will become irrevocable; nastily self-\nrighteous over this bit of proof that they can't \"get away\" with treating\nus or each other this way, and then disgusted with myself for even\nbeginning to gloat over others' misery; and finally, mostly, sad, sad,\nsad, to see my parents hurt and my brother and sister-in-law trapped in\na horrible, destructive situation that they can't see a way out of--or\nthey can't bear to take whatever paths they do see. And I'm frustrated\nbecause I don't know what if anything to do, and doing nothing drives me\nup the wall. I try to pray, about my own feelings of rage, impotence,\nand vindictiveness, and about their situation, but I am not\nfree of the desire to *DO* something concrete. (The desire to *DO*\nsomething, to define a problem and fix it, is one of my besetting\nvices; I'm having a terrible time quieting down my internal\nmental chatter enough to listen for God.)\n Do you thoughtful and kind people on the net have advice for me? Is\nthis a time to reach out to my brother? To let things be? How can I\nconquer my rage AT him enough to be there FOR him?\n \nHere's the big question I've been evading throughout this long, long\npost: Is it ok, as a Christian and a proponent of faith, hope, and\ncharity, to accept the destruction of a relationship? To give up on\nmy own brother, or at least to accept that I am powerless to help him\nand can only wait and see what happens? Do please answer--by e-mail or\npost.\n \nThank you.", "\nWhy not? This is rather disappointing...\n", "-*----\nCross-posted and with followups directed to talk.politics.theory.\n\n-*----\n\nIn other words, we should jail people who say the wrong \nthings. In this advocacy, we can see a truly ugly meme.\nDoes Mark Robert Thorson advocate jailing himself?", "\n\n\nEd:\n\n Before you ridicule the intelligence of other people, LEARN TO SPELL. \nYour typographical errors are, indeed, \"embarassing\" to those of us who\nread alt.politics.libertarian for its allegedly superior ideas and writing.", " \n\"savior\" \nthat \ntheir\n\nTolerent, aren't we? Their's was hardly the first faith/sect/cult \nto espouse this type of belief.\n\nand\n\nI keep hearing this, and while I'll agree that he \"should\" have come\nout (legally, that was his best option), he didn't; and as far as I know,\nthere is no legal provision for \"we're tired of this shit, lets just\nkick some ass...\"\n\nSo I have a question for you; here goes.\n\nI come up to you and point a gun at you, saying \"I'm going to count\nto ten, if you aren't standing on your head by then, I'll kill you.\"\nYou believe that standing on your head is the road to damnation, so\nyou don't do it.\n\"1..2..3..4..5..6..7..8..9..10...BANG!\" You are now dead - Is it my\nfault for shooting you, or you're fault for being shot?\nKoresh wouldn't stand on his head. ", "The headline says it all!!!!!!!!\n", "#The fact that she was wearing a miniskirt with no underwear was\n#presented as evidence that she was a prostitute, and the court\n#apparently found this compelling.\n\nAh, I know women who wear miniskirts without wearing underwear, and\nthey are not prostitutes.\n\n#Because the judge found that there was some credible evidence that the\n#Marines were engaged in self-defense. Got it, knucklehead?\n\nGee, Both Clayton and Kaldis engaging in ad hominem arguments.\n\nI presented evidence that what you said is *NOT* what the judge ruled.\nProvide your evidence. Repeating a false claim is not evidence.\n", "This is a test. Thanks.\n", "\n\nNot due to race. Due to membership in an organization which\npublically proclaimed it would destroy the state which expelled them\n-- and furthermore kill a large segment of the citizens of that state,\nbased on race.\n", "\n\n\n\nJust out of curiousity, how old is Worden?\n--\n_______________________________________________________________________________", ": I\n: |> Jim,\n: |> \n: |> I always thought that homophobe was only a word used at Act UP\n: |> rallies, I didn't beleive real people used it. Let's see if we agree\n: |> on the term's definition. A homophobe is one who actively and\n: |> militantly attacks homosexuals because he is actually a latent\n: |> homosexual who uses his hostility to conceal his true orientation.\n: |> Since everyone who disapproves of or condemns homosexuality is a\n: |> homophobe (your implication is clear), it must necessarily follow that\n: |> all men are latent homosexuals or bisexual at the very least.\n: |> \n: \n: Crap crap crap crap crap. A definition of any type of 'phobe comes from\n: phobia = an irrational fear of. Hence a homophobe (not only in ACT UP meetings,\n: the word is apparently in general use now. Or perhaps it isn't in the bible? \n: Wouldst thou prefer if I were to communicate with thou in bilespeak?)\n: \n: Does an arachnophobe have an irrational fear of being a spider? Does an\n: agoraphobe have an irrational fear of being a wide open space? Do you\n: understand English?\n: \n: Obviously someone who has phobia will react to it. They will do their best\n: to avoid it and if that is not possible they will either strike out or\n: run away. Or do gaybashings occur because of natural processes? People\n: who definately have homophobia will either run away from gay people or\n: cause them (or themselves) violence.\n: \n\nIsn't that what I said ...\nWhat are you taking issue with here, your remarks are merely\nparenthetical to mine and add nothing useful.\n\n: [...]\n: \n: |> It would seem odd if homosexuality had any evolutionary function\n: |> (other than limiting population growth) since evolution only occurs\n: |> when the members of one generation pass along their traits to\n: |> subsequent generations. Homosexuality is an evolutionary deadend. If I\n: |> take your usage of the term, homophobe, in the sense you seem to\n: |> intend, then all men are really homosexual and evolution of our\n: |> species at least, is going nowhere.\n: |> \n: \n: So *every* time a man has sex with a woman they intend to produce children?\n: Hmm...no wonder the world is overpopulated. Obviously you keep to the\n: Monty Python song: \"Every sperm is sacred\". And if, as *you* say, it has\n: a purpose as a means to limit population growth then it is, by your own \n: arguement, natural.\n\nConsider the context, I'm talking about an evolutionary function. One\nof the most basic requirements of evolution is that members of a\nspecies procreate, those who don't have no purpose in that context.\n\n: \n: |> Another point is that if the offspring of each generation is to\n: |> survive, the participation of both parents is necessary - a family must\n: |> exist, since homosexuals do not reproduce, they cannot constitute a\n: |> family. Since the majority of humankind is part of a family,\n: |> homosexuality is an evolutionary abberation, contrary to nature if you\n: |> will.\n: |> \n: \n: Well if that is true, by your own arguements homosexuals would have \n: vanished *years* ago due to non-procreation. Also the parent from single\n: parent families should put the babies out in the cold now, cos they must,\n: by your arguement, die.\n\nBy your argument, homosexuality is genetically determined. As to your\nsecond point, you prove again that you have no idea what context\nmeans. I am talking about evolution, the preservation of the species,\nthe fundamental premise of the whole process.\n: \n: |> But it gets worse. Since the overwhelming majority of people actually\n: |> -prefer- a heterosexual relationship, homosexuality is a social\n: |> abberation as well. The homosexual eschews the biological imperative\n: |> to reproduce and then the social imperative to form and participate in\n: |> the most fundamental social element, the family. But wait, there's\n: |> more.\n: |> \n: \n: Read the above. I expect you to have at least ten children by now, with\n: the family growing. These days sex is less to do with procreation (admittedly\n: without it there would be no-one) but more to do with pleasure. In pre-pill\n: and pre-condom days, if you had sex there was the chance of producing children.\n: These days is just ain't true! People can decide whether or not to have \n: children and when. Soon they will be able to choose it's sex &c (but that's \n: another arguement...) so it's more of a \"lifestyle\" decision. Again by\n: your arguement, since homosexuals can not (or choose not) to reproduce they must\n: be akin to people who decide to have sex but not children. Both are \n: as \"unnatural\" as each other.\n\nYet another non-sequitur. Sex is an evolutionary function that exists\nfor procreation, that it is also recreation is incidental. That\nhomosexuals don't procreate means that sex is -only- recreation and\nnothing more; they serve no -evolutionary- purpose.\n\n: \n: |> Since homosexuals have come out the closet and have convinced some\n: |> policy makers that they have civil rights, they are now claiming that\n: |> their sexuality is a preference, a life-style, an orientation, a\n: |> choice that should be protected by law. Now if homosexuality is a mere\n: |> choice and if it is both contrary to nature and anti-social, then it\n: |> is a perverse choice; they have even less credibility than before they\n: |> became prominent. \n: |> \n: \n: People are people are people. Who are you to tell anyone else how to live\n: their life? Are you god(tm)? If so, fancy a date?\n\nHere's pretty obvious dodge, do you really think you've said anything\nor do you just feel obligated to respond to every statement? I am not\ntelling anyone anything, I am demonstrating that there are arguments\nagainst the practice of homosexuality (providing it's a merely an\nalternate lifestlye) that are not homophobic, that one can reasonably\ncall it perverse in a context even a atheist can understand. I realize\nof course that this comes dangerously close to establishing a value,\nand that atheists are compelled to object on that basis, but if you\nare to be consistent, you have no case in this regard.\n: \n: |> To characterize any opposition to homosexuality as homophobic is to\n: |> ignore some very compelling arguments against the legitimization of\n: |> the homosexual \"life-style\". But since the charge is only intended to\n: |> intimidate, it's really just demogoguery and not to be taken\n: |> seriously. Fact is, Jim, there are far more persuasive arguments for\n: |> suppressing homosexuality than those given, but consider this a start.\n: |> \n: \n: Again crap. All your arguments are based on outdated ideals. Likewise the\n: bible. Would any honest Christian condemn the ten generations spawned by\n: a \"bastard\" to eternal damnation? Or someone who crushes his penis (either\n: accidently or not..!). Both are in Deuteronomy.\n\nI'm sure your comment pertains to something, but you've disguised it\nso well I can't see what. Where did I mention ideals, out-dated or\notherwise? Your arguments are very reactionary; do you have anything\nat all to contribute?\n\n: \n: |> As to why homosexuals should be excluded from participation in\n: |> scouting, the reasons are the same as those used to restrict them from\n: |> teaching; by their own logic, homosexuals are deviates, social and\n: |> biological. Since any adult is a role model for a child, it is\n: |> incumbent on the parent to ensure that the child be isolated from\n: |> those who would do the child harm. In this case, harm means primarily\n: |> social, though that could be extended easily enough.\n: |> \n: |> \n: \n: You show me *anyone* who has sex in a way that everyone would describe as\n: normal, and will take of my hat (Puma baseball cap) to you. \"One man's meat\n: is another man's poison\"!\n: \n\nWhat has this got to do with anything? Would you pick a single point\nthat you find offensive and explain your objections, I would really\nlike to believe that you can discuss this issue intelligibly.", "\n \"I have no question that our plan was correct?\" Months to\nget ready, unlimited funds, knowledge of a threatened mass suicide by fire,\nand no fire trucks on hand? This is \"extreme professionalism and care?\"\n\n I can understand the first screwed-up raid by the BATF. They\nunderestimated the opposition, which happens. But not this one. \nThe FBI had their first team in place, massive resources, ample time \nfor planning and bringing up any specialized equipment or people necessary. \nThey still botched it.\n\n The FBI Director and the FBI SAC in overall charge should resign,\nor be fired for incompetence.\n\n I don't blame Reno or Clinton. They gave the FBI clear orders:\ndon't go in unless you can do it without casualties; if you can't do that,\nwait it out. Those were reasonable orders. The FBI said they could\npull off a tactical solution, and they couldn't.", "<> Somebody asked me what was wrong about overreacting in cases such as this.\n<\n The reason is very simple: How many people do you want to die in a riot? \n<> In a new Civil War? \n<>\n<> Everybody is jumping up and down and screaming about it, and I'm worried\n<> that people are going to reach for their hammers and rifles before their pens\n<> and paper. \n<\n Can people work within the system before trying to break it? Examine your\n<> history books, and find out how many armed revolutions led to Democratic\n<> (or Democratic style) governments. I think you'll only find one in over\n<> five thousand years of written history.\n<\n #\n#|> #Noting that a particular society, in this case the mainland UK,\n#|> #has few religously motivated murders, and few murders of *any*\n#|> #kind, says very little about whether inter-religion murders elsewhere\n#|> #are religiously motivated.\n#|> \n#|> No, but it allows one to conclude that there is nothing inherent\n#|> in all religion (or for that matter, in catholicism and protestantism)\n#|> that motivates one to kill.\n#\n#\"Motivates\" or \"allows?\" The Christian Bible says that one may kill\n#under certain circumstances. In fact, it instructs one to kill under\n#certain circumstances. \n\nI'd say the majority of people have a moral system that instructs them\nto kill under certain circumstances. I do get your distinction between\nmotivate and allow, and I do agree that if a flavour of theism 'allows'\natoricities, then that's an indictment of that theism. But it rather\ndepends on what the 'certain circumstances' are. When you talk about\nChristianity, or Islam, then at least your claims can be understood.\nIt's when people go to a general statement about theism that it falls\napart. One could believe in a God which instructs one to be utterly\nharmless.\n#\n#|> For my part, I conclude that something\n#|> else is required. I also happen to believe that that something\n#|> else will work no less well without religion - any easy Them/Us will\n#|> do.\n#\n#And what does religion supply, if not an easy Them/Us?\n\nNot necessarily. \"Love thy neighbour\" does not supply a them/us - it\ndemolishes it. And my definition of religion is broader than my\ndefinition of theism, as I have explained.\n#\n#|> #By insisting that even the murder of four labourers, chosen because\n#|> #they were catholics, and who had nothing to do with the IRA, by \n#|> #Protestant extremists, is *not* religously motivated, I think what \n#|> #you are saying is that you simply will not accept *any* murder as \n#|> #being religiously motivated.\n#|> \n#|> No. What about that guy who cut off someone's head because he believed \n#|> he was the devil incarnate? That was religously motivated.\n#\n#What about the Protestant extremists who killed four Catholic \n#labourers? That *wasn't* religiously motivated?\n\nNot in my opinion. If they were doing it because of some obscure\npoint of theology, then yes. But since all protestants don't do this\n(nor do they elect extremists to do it for them), it's just too broad\ntoo say \"religion did this\". I'm saying that the causes are far more\ncomplex than that - take away the religious element, and you'd still\nhave the powerful motives of revenge and misguided patriotism. You\nknow, when most Catholics and Protestants worldwide say 'stop the \nkilling', one might listen to that, especially when you claim not\nto read minds.\n#\n#\n#|> Also, the murders ensuing from the fatwa on Mr. Rushdie, the Inquisitions,\n#|> and the many religous wars.\n#\n#What's so special about these exceptions? Isn't this all just a\n#grab-bag of ad-hoc excuses for not considering some other murders\n#to be religiously motivated? What's the general principle behind\n#all this?\n\nThe general principle is that it's fairly clear (to me, at least) that\nreligion is the primary motivator (enabler, whatever) of these. It's\nnot nearly so obvious what's going on when one looks at NI, apart\nfrom violence of course.\n#\n#|> #It's not an abstract \"argument\". Northern Irish Protestants say\n#|> #\"We don't want to be absorbed into am officially Catholic country.\"\n#|> #\n#|> #Now what are we supposed to do? Are we supposed to reply \"No,\n#|> #that's only what you think you don't want. Mr O'Dwyer assures us\n#|> #that no matter what you say you want, you really want something \n#|> #else?\"\n#|> \n#|> You think the Unionists wouldn't mind being absorbed into a non-Catholic \n#|> country (other than the UK of course)? It's a terrible thing to lose\n#|> a mind. Maybe the word \"country\" is there for more than just kicks.\n#|> I certainly don't believe that the Unionists are in it for God - I think\n#|> they wish to maintain their position of privilege.\n#\n#I'm still listening to what they say, and you are still telling us \n#your version of what they think. You read minds, and I don't.\n\nYou've speculated on my motives often enough, and you don't take\nmy statements of my own beliefs at face value - therefore your claim \nnot to read minds has no credibility with me, sorry. I also note that \nyou fail to answer my question. It just looks to me very much like\nyou have an axe to grind - especially as you are indeed ignoring what \nmost Protestants say - which is @stop the killing\". The people you\nrefer to are properly described as Unionists, not Protestants.\n#\n#As for their position of privilege, what is that if not religion-\n#based?\n\nIt is based on politics, bigotry, and heartless extremism. None of these\nthings are synonymous with religion, though there is certainly some\noverlap.\n\n", "==============================================================================\n", ": My 9 yr old son has signed up to do a science report on batteries. I was\n: wondering if anyone could provide me with some information as to how to\n: construct a home-built battery. In my grade school days, I remember seeing\n: the 'ice cube tray' version, but I don't remember what to use as a good\n: electrolyte or what the easily obtainable metals were. \n\n: Thank you in advance.\n\n: Dean W. Anneser Pratt & Whitney Aircraft \n: Computer System Specialist m.s. 161-05 \\__ -\\ \n: (203)565-9372 (desk) 5016 (fax) 400 Main St. Ooo.. (_)-V/( )\n: Uucp: uunet!pwa-b!anneser East Hartford, CT 06108 Live to Ride\n: Internet: anneser@pwfire.pweh.utc.com\n: \"One test result is worth one thousand expert opinions\" -- Wernher Von Braun \n: -- \n: Dean W. Anneser Pratt & Whitney Aircraft \n: Computer System Specialist m.s. 161-05 \\__ -\\ \n: (203)565-9372 (desk) 5016 (fax) 400 Main St. Ooo.. (_)-V/( )\n: Uucp: uunet!pwa-b!anneser East Hartford, CT 06108 Live to Ride\n\n--\n\nThe simplest one is easy. Take a lemon or other citrus type fruit, and\nstick a pair of metal strips into it for the contacts. The two strips must\nbe of disimelar metals like copper and zinc. Then connect a voltmeter to\nthe contacts and read the voltage.\n\nbill@xpresso.UUCP (Bill Vance), Bothell, WA\nrwing!xpresso!bill", "Doug Holland claims Tom Clancy has provided the recipe for nuclear bombs.\nClancy himself says he has omitted certain crucial steps. Further, how do we\nknow Clancy knows, rather than repeating what he's read or been told in the\nunclassified domain?\n", "\nTDB> 12. Disease introduced to Brazilian * oher S.Am. tribes: x million\n\nTo be fair, this was going to happen eventually. Given time, the Americans\nwould have reached Europe on their own and the same thing would have \nhappened. It was just a matter of who got together first.\n", "\n\n\n[Stuff deleted] \n\n\nI'm glad to see that someone is working on this. However, it would be nice if\nhe got his units right.", ": In my mind, to say that science has its basis in values is a bit of a\n: reach. Science has its basis in observable fact. \n\nI'd say that what one chooses to observe and how the observation is\ninterpreted and what significance it's given depends a great deal on\nthe values of the observer. Science is a human activity and as such,\nis subject to the same potential for distortion as any other human\nactivity. The myth that scientists are above moral influence or\nethical concern, that their knowledge can be abstacted whole and pure\nfrom nature untainted by the biases of the scientist, is nonsense.\n\nBill\n\n: If one is to argue for objective values (in a moral sense) then one must\n: first start by demonstrating that morality itself is objective. Considering\n: the meaning of the word \"objective\" I doubt that this will ever happen.\n\n: So, back to the original question:\n\n: And objective morality is.....?\n\nThis may be an unfortunate choice of words, almost self-contradictory.\nObjective in the sense used here means something immutable and\nabsolute while morality describes the behavior of some group of\npeople. The first term is all inclusive, the second is specific. The\nconcept supposedly described may have meaning however. \nIf there is a God as described by the Christians (for instance), then\nHe has existence apart from and independent of humankind; His\nexistence is outside of our frame of reference (reality). If this\nbeing declares a thing to be so, it is -necessarily- so since He has\ndefined Himself as omnipotent and, if His claims are to be believed,\nHe is at least omnipotent relative to us. God is intrinsically\nself-defined and all reality is whatever He says it is - in an\nobjective sense.\nIf God determines a standard of conduct, that standard is objective.\nIf human beings are held accountable for their conformance to that\nstandard while permitted to ignore it, they substitute a relative\nmorality or mode of conduct, giving the term morality a nebulous,\nmeaningless sense that can be argued about by those pretending to\nmisunderstand. The standard is objective and the conduct required to\nmeet that standard is therefore objectively determined.\nJust because it is convenient to pretend that the term morality is\ninfinitely malleable, doesn't mean that the objective standard itself\ndoesn't exist. Morality has come to mean little more than a cultural\nnorm, or the preferred conduct of \"decent\" people, making it seem\nsubjective, but it is derived from an absolute, objective, standard.\nIronically, this objective standard is in perfect accord with our true\nnature (according to Christianity at least), yet is condemned as being\ncontrary to human nre, oppressive and severe. This may be due as", " [...]\n\nSome of the Davidians *are* black.\n\nNext question?\n\n", "\n \n\n\nThere are exactly ZERO verses that \"clearly\" address the issues.\n\n\nThe kind of interpretation I see as \"incredibly perverse\" is that applied\nto the story of Sodom as if it were a blanket equation of homosexual\nbehavior and rape. Since Christians citing the Bible in such a context\nshould be presumed to have at least READ the story, it amounts to slander\n-- a charge that homosexuality == rape -- to use that against us.\n\n\nThe moderator adequately discusses the circularity of your use of _porneia_\nin this. I think we can all agree (with Paul) that there are SOME kinds of\nactivity that could be named by \"fornication\" or \"theft\" or \"coveting\" or\n\"reviling\" or \"drunkenness\" which would well deserve condemnation. We may\nor may not agree to the bounds of those categories, however; and the very\nfact that they are argued over suggests that not only is the matter not at\nall \"clear\" but that Paul -- an excellent rhetorician -- had no interest\nin MAKING them clear, leaving matters rather to our Spirit-led decisions,\nwith all the uncomfortable living-with-other-readings that has dominated\nChristian discussion of ALL these areas.\n\nHomosexual behavior is no different. I (and the other gay Christians I\nknow) are adamant in condemning rape -- heterosexual or homosexual -- and\nchild molestation -- heterosexual or homosexual -- and even the possibly\n\"harmless\" but obsessive kinds of sex -- heterosexual or homosexual --\nthat would stand condemned by Paul in the very continuation of the chapter\nyou cite [may I mildly suggest that what *Paul* does in his letter that\nyou want to use is perhaps a good guide to his meaning?]\n\n\t\"'I am free to do anything,' you say. Yes, but not everything\n\tis for my good. No doubt I am free to do anything, but I for one\n\twill not let anything make free with me.\" [1 Cor. 6:12]\n\nWhich is a restatement that we must have no other \"god\" before God. A\ncommandment neither I nor any other gay Christian wishes to break. Some\npeople are indeed involved in obsessively driven modes of sexual behavior.\nIt is just as wrong (though slightly less incendiary, so it's a secondary\nargument from the 'phobic contingent) to equate homosexuality with such\nbehavior as to equate it with the rape of God's messengers.\n\nI won't deal with the exegesis of Leviticus, except very tangentially.\nFundamentally, you are exhibiting the same circularity here as in your\nassumption that you know what _porneia_ means. There are plenty of\nlaws prohibiting sexual behavior to be found in Leviticus, most of\nwhich Christians ignore completely. They never even BOTHER to examine\nthem. They just *assume* that they know which ones are \"moral\" and\nwhich ones are \"ritual.\" Well, I have news for you. Any anthropology\ncourse should sensitize you to ritual and clean vs. unlcean as categories\nin an awful lot of societies (we have them too, but buried pretty deep).\nAnd I cannot see any ground for distinguishing these bits of Leviticus\nfrom the \"ritual law\" which NO Christian I know feels applies to us.\n\nI'm dead serious here. When people start going on (as they do in this\nmatter) about how \"repulsive\" and \"unnatural\" our acts are -- and what\ndo they know about it, huh? -- it is a solid clue to the same sort of\narbitrary cultural inculcations as the American prejudice against eating\ninsects. On what basis, other than assuming your conclusion, can you\nsay that the law against male-male intercourse in Leviticus is NOT a part\nof the ritual law?\n\nFor those Christians who *do* think that *some* parts of Leviticus can\nbe \"law\" for Christians (while others are not even to be thought about)\nit is incumbent on you *in every case, handled on its own merits* to\ndetermine why you \"pick\" one and ignore another. I frankly think the\nwhole effort misguided. Reread Paul: \"No doubt I am free to do anything.\"\nBut Christians have a criterion to use for making our judgments on this,\nthe Great Commandment of love for God and neighbor. If you cannot go\nthrough Leviticus and decide each \"command\" there on that basis, then\nyour own arbitrary selection from it is simply idiosyncracy. In this\ncontext, it is remarkably offensive to say:\n\n\nWell, la-ti-da. So what? This is almost as slimey an argument as the\none that homosexuality == rape. I know of no one who argues seriously\n(though one can always find jokers) in \"defense\" of bestiality. It is\nabsolutely irrelevant and incomparable to the issues gay Christians *do*\nraise (which concern sexual activity within committed, consensual human\nadult realtionships), so that your bringing it up is no more relevant\nthan the laws of kashrut. If you cannot address the actual issues, you\nare being bloody dishonest in trailing this red herring in front of the\nworld. If *you* want to address bestiality, that is YOUR business, not\nmine. And attempting to torpedo a serious issue by using what is in\nour culture a ridiculous joke shows that you have no interest in hearing\nus as human beings. You want to dismiss us, and use the sleaziest means\nyou can think of to do so.\n\nJesus and Paul both expound, very explictly and in considerable length,\nthe central linch-pin of Christian moral thought: we are required to\nlove one another, and ALL else depends on that. Gay and lesbian Christ-\nians challenge you to address the issue on those terms -- and all we get\nin return are cheap debate tricks attempting to side-track the issues.\n\nChristians, no doubt very sincere ones, keep showing up here and in every\ncorner of USENET and the world, and ALL they ever do is spout these same\nold verses (which they obviously have never thought about, maybe never\neven read), in TOTAL ignorance of the issues raised, slandering us with\nthe vilest charges of child abuse or whatever their perfervid minds can\nmanage to conjure up, tossing out red herrings with (they suppose) great\nemotional force to cause readers to dismiss our witness without even\ntaking the trouble to find out what it is.\n\nSuch behavior should shame anyone who claims to have seen Truth in Christ.\nWHY, for God's precious sake, do you people quote irrelevant verses to\ncondemn people you don't know and won't even take the trouble to LISTEN\nto BEFORE you start your condemnations? Is that loving your neighbor?\nGod forbid! Is THAT how you obey the repeated commands to NOT judge or\ncondemn others? Christ and Paul spend ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE more time in\ninsisting on this than the half-dozen obscure words in Paul that you are\nSO bloody ready to take as license to do what God tells you NOT to do.\n\nWhy, for God's sake?\n\n\t\"For God did not send the Son into the world\n\tto condemn the world,\n\tbut that the world might be saved through him.\n\tWhoever believes in him is not condemned,\n\tbut whoever does not believe has already been condemned\n\tfor refusing to believe in the name of God's only Son.\n\tNow the judgment is this:\n\tthe light has come into the world,\n\tbut men have preferred darkness to light\n\tbecause their deeds were evil.\n\tFor everyone who practices wickedness\n\thates the light,\n\tand does not come near the light\n\tfor fear his deeds will be exposed.\n\tBut he who acts in truth\n\tcomes into the light,\n\tso that it may be sh0own\n\tthat his deeds are done in God.\"\tJohn 3:17-21\n\nFor long ages, we (many of us) have been confused by evil counsel from\nevil men and told that if we came to the light we would be shamed and\nrejected. Some of us despaired and took to courses that probably *do*\nshow a sinful shunning of God's light. Blessed are those whose spirits\nhave been crushed by the self-righteous; they shall be justified.\n\nHowever, we have seen the Truth, and the Truth is the light of humanity;\nand we now know that it is not WE who fear the light, but our enemies who\nfear the light of our witness and will do everything they can to shadow\nit with the darkness of false witness against us.", "(hudson)\n(me)\n\n/(hudson)\n/So. Why is someone elses will such a big deal if morality is all relative.\n\n\nI don't believe I ever said that morality was all relative.\n\nWhat I said was that I can make my mind up on my own, thank you, and that \nyou don't have the right to tell others what to think.\n\nI think that you will find that in most moral systems, there is \na respect for human life and the dignity of the person. It is all the\nstuff besides these points that forms the core of the disagreement between \nprimitive moral absolutists like yourself and the rest of us.\n\n\n\n/(hudson)\n/Maybe (the insane lover of pain might reason) if other people experienced\n/enough pain, they might learn to enjoy it, too. \n\nFine. There is still the clinical definition of crazy. And this also\ninvolves a violation of free will, because the insane lover of your\nlittle example would be inflicting pain on a non-willing subject.\n\nTry again.\n\n\n\n\n(hudson)\n(me)\n\n/(hudson)\n/You have to have some sort of premise about choice or self-awareness.\n\n\nNo, you do not. I demonstrated to you the example of the football\nteam which doesn't require premises about freedom of choice or \nsentience/self-awareness. ", "NOTE - local tx groups trimmed out of Newsgroups: line\n\n<\n, cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D.\n<>No, you were right the first time. Law enforcement agencies should keep\n<>HIS opinions in mind before breaking into or assaulting ANYBODY'S house.\n<\nThe BATF came out with horse trailers, 100 men, ninja uniforms, machine \n<>guns, and stun grenades, and used them before Koresh could even look \n<>at the warrant. Koresh fought back, and people died.\n<\n>The rape has passed, there is nothing that will ever take that away.\n\nLM>True. But forcing her to remain pregnant continues the violation of\nLM>her body for another 9 months. I see this as being unbelievably cruel.\n\nLife is not a \"violation\". As for cruel, killing a living being solely\nbecause it exsist. That my friend is down right cold.\n\n Anthony\n\n\n * SLMR 2.1 * What's the difference between an Orange?\n ", "Does that mean that they're gonna bring back the Biscayne and Bel Air?\n", "\n\tThis is true, but it's not quite the whole story. There were \n\tactually some people who were more careful in their methodology\n\twho also replicated the 'phantom leaf effect.'\n\n One of the most influential critics of Kirlian Electrophotography\n is a Theosophist (and threfore presumably willing to entertain the\n hypothesis of scientific evidence for a human aura, electromagnetic\n or otherwise), professor of electrical engineering at London's\n City University, and a past president of the Society for Psychic Research \n named A. J. Ellison.\n\n After years of studying the method and the claims, Ellison\n came to the conclusion that the photographic images are what we\n calls 'Lichtenberg Figures,' an effect of intermittent ionization of\n the air around the object. It's a bit more complicated than\n 'not wiping off the plates,' but it comes down to the same thing\n in the end, Kirlian electrophotography has much more limited\n value (if any) than was previously widely thought. Electrical and\n magnetic fields generated by the body are much too small to be\n of much use diagnostically without very elaborate equipment and\n usually also tracer chemicals.\n\n\t\t\t\t\tkind regards,", "\n\n[much deleted]\n\namazing. I could not find _one_ reference to waffle in all of this.\n\nfollowups redirected out.", "Before getting excited and implying that I am posting\nfabrications, I would suggest the readers to consult the\nnewspaper in question. \n\nTahnks,", "Sorry, the San Jose based Rosicrucian order is called A.M.O.R.C, \nI don't remember for the time being what the A.M. stand for\nbut O.R.C is Ordo Rosae Crucis, in other words latin for\nOrder of the Rose Cross. Sigh, seems l'm loosing more and more\nof my long term memory.\n\nOtherwise their headquarters in San Jose has a pretty decent\nmetaphysical bookstore, if any of you are interested in such books.\nAnd my son loves to run around in their Egyptian museum.\n\nCheers,\nKent", "Well, it seems the \"National Sales Tax\" has gotten its very\n own CNN news LOGO!\n\n Cool. That means we'll be seeing it often.\n\n Man, I sure am GLAD that I quit working ( or taking this \n seriously ) in 1990. If I kept busting my ass, watching \n time go by, being frustrated, I'd be pretty DAMN MAD by \n now.\n \n YEAH! Free HEALTH CARE! Oh, yeeaaaahhhh!\n\n heh heh\n\n \" Bill makes me feel like DANCING! \"\n\n MORE AMAZING PREDICTIONS FROM THE INCREDIBLE BROMEISTER!\n --------------------------------------------------------\n\n We take you back to Feburary 20th, when the INCREDIBLE \n BROMEISTER PREDICTED:\n\n\t \" $1,000 per middle class taxpayer in NEW TAXES \"\n\n \" A NATIONAL SALES TAX \"\n\n Now, for more AAMMMAAAAZZZZZZIINNNNGGGGG Predictions!\n\n i) The NST will be raised from 3% to 5% by 1996.\n\t Ooops. They ALREADY DID it.\n \n\t Okay, then. The NST will be raised from 5% to 7% by 1996.\n\n ii) Unemployment will rise!\n\n iii) Tax revenues will decline. Deficit will increase!\n\t We'll get another DEFICIT REDUCTION PACKAGE by 1997!\n\t Everyone will DANCE AND SING!\n\n Yup. I'm gonna bail out of here\n at 1 PM, amble on down to the lake. Hang out. Sit\n in the sun and take it EASY! :) Yeah! \n\n I just wish I had the e-mail address of total gumby who\n was saying that \" Clinton didn't propose a NST \".\n\n To paraphrase Hilary Clinton - \" I will not raise taxes on\n the middle class to pay for my programs \"", ": significantly less than the value of many automobiles. And for those who will\n: argue that the animals out there stealing cars and everything else (not to\n: mention committing COMPLETELY senseless acts of violence, such as rape) cannot\n: be valued in terms of money because they are human beings, I submit that they\n: are not human beings. Jim Callison, I think, is on the right track. And ", "......\n\nWhen did Koresh go on a rampage?\n\nWhat I saw was an unnecessary, unprovoked massive attack on Feb. 28th.\n\nProbably even an illegal action by ATF, certainly way out of proportion\nto anything reasonable.\n\nAnd yet, according to a pole taken yesterday, 95% of the people poled\nbelieve the government forces acted appropriately. They don`t believe\nReno or the President have any guilt in ordering/allowing the attack.\n\nI suppose they also believed things like:\n\"I would present a 5-year plan to balance the budget.\"\n\"We don`t need to lead with a tax increase....\"\n\"It starts with a middle-class tax cut...\"\n\"I`ll have the bills ready the day after I am inaugurated and we`ll\nhave a 100 day period....It will be the most productive in modern history.\"\n\"I will ask congress for a line item veto..\"\n\"I will lift the social security earnings test..\"\n\nI personally prefer to disbelieve the government until they prove themselves\nright, rather than the other way around. That way I have a better than\n50% chance of being right about my first guess!\n\nRead the constitution sometime, it is supposed to protect the citizens\nand their rights. I am sick of the abuse of government power.", "Few simple points: Leadership: You are responsible for all that your \n subordinates do or fail to do.\n\n Law: Any deaths that occur as a result or during the\n commision of a crime are a felony against whoever dies\n during the incident, and whoever committed the crime\n establishing the incident is chargable for MURDER ONE.\n This is how criminals are charged with murder for the\n deaths of bystanders from police stray rounds and such.\n Someone dying of a heart attack is also considered a\n murder one, if it is in a situation caused by a crime.\n", "UPDATED LIST\nHi everybody\n I have the following books for sale. Some of these books are brand new.\nIf you find any book you like and need more information about it, please\nfeel free to send me an E-Mail. The buyers pays the shipping fees.\n Thanks.\nabou@sun.soe.clarkson.edu", "\n Even better, let's pass a law making it illegal to kill people\nwith bombs of *any* sort.\n\n--henry schaffer", "\nWell, I would go as far as saying that Naturei Karta are definitely\nJewish fundamentalists. Other ultra-orthodox Jewish groups might very\nwell be, though I am hesitant of making such a broad generalization.\n", "I have recently picked up a page scanner by the name of EZ-SCAN II\nmodel 35. The software for it was made for per-Windows 3.x windows\nand will not work with the newwer windows. Does any one out there kow\nwere I could find the company that made this beast (Copyrights say\n1987.) And the name GMS a division of DEST. Does anyone know if these\ncompanies still exist and if they do, do they have an email address?\n\nOr, if anyone knows of a freeware/shareware programme that is able to\naccess this scanner.", "\n\n\tNo, you merely have to start working on yellowcake or else\ndevise a system to get it from other sources. BTW: the DOE handles\nreactor fuel, and merely leases it to reactors. The NRC certifies these\nreactors. The military have their own sources. A private citizen has\nnone of these official sources.\n\n\n\tThat's freshman-level chemistry. Big deal. Can you make it\nwork? That's PhD-level physics. Big difference.\n\n\n\tSo you admit that there's no law that could stop you? Physics\naside, could you make one if you had the funds and time? The answer\nis yes. So, do we lock you up now because of this? Surely you can\nsee where the comparison with anti-gun laws comes into play here?\n\n\n\tPrecisely why it's not as readily utilized as you seem to have\nbeen lead to believe. BTW: 98% U235 is far better for home-made bombs\nthan trying to use plutonium. The laws of physics make the creation of\na device without serious manufacturing facilities very low in probability.", "<><><><> L O O K I N G F O R D A N A W E I C K <><><><>\nHE IS A CROOK. DON'T DEAL WITH HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!\n\nPlease Help:\n\nI am looking for Dana Weick. A month ago I made a deal with him over the\nnet. I was to sell him some memory, in exchang for $100 and a 486-66 cpu.\nI thought the deal was great, so I went on with it. \n\nI sent him the memory COD FOR $100. He was then suppose to send me the cpu.\nI receive his COD payment on 4/8/93. He send me a message the he sent the\ncpu out 4/16/93. It has been two weeks, and I didn't receive the CPU.\n\nI send him numerous message asking for confirmation that the cpu was ship, or\nwhat address he send it to (to make sure it didn't get lost in the mail.)\nHe never reply my mail. \n\nI finally resorted to calling him in Arizona. The first call didn't get\nthrought, I got an answering machine. I left him my number. He didn't reply.\nI call again the next day and he pick up the phone. I asked him if he had\nsend out the cpu. He said yes, but he doesn't know what address he sent it\nto. \n\nHe said that you would check his record at home and call me back the next day.\nTo my suprise, He never called. I then send him some more email messages, he\nnever reply again. (strang, when the deal was being made, he reply to every\nof my message, now that He got my memory, He won't even reply to me.)\n\nNow: I am still calling him, but he won't pick up the phone. I am also still\n emailing him, but he won't reply my mail.\n\nSo if any one know this DANA WEICK, please contact him.\nhe can be reach at:\n\t\t\tDana Weick\n\t\t\t4238 W Las Palmaritas\n\t\t\tPhoenix, AZ 85051\n (602)925-6123 in the day time this is his business number.\n (602)842-2145 in the evenings this is his home number.\n\n\nhis email address is:\n\t\t\tweick@master.lds-az.loral.com\n*******This is our deal\n\nFrom weick@master.lds-az.loral.com Wed Mar 17 20:09:20 1993\n\n[my address]\n\nGreat, you can send the SIMMS to me at:\nDana Weick\n4238 W Las Palmaritas\nPhoenix, AZ 85051\n(602) 925-6123 (days) (602) 842-2145 (evenings)\n\nI would prefer US Mail, 2nd Day Priority (it only costs $2.90)\n\nThe CPU is brand new, install it correctly (meaning don't plug it in\nbackwards or bend any pins) and I'll warranty it for 6 months.\nThanks\n\n****ON 4/8 I SEND HIM AND SAID...\nthat I got the cod payment.\nand asked if the cpu is sent out yet\n****HE REPLIED.....ON 4/9\n\nGlad the COD payment got to you OK, the CPU has been sent so keep your eyes out\nfor it. Be *very* careful when you install it, be careful of static discharge,\nbending pins during insertion and above all make absolutely certain you\nplug the chip in the proper orientation. The chip was checked out prior to\nshipping and if you cook it by plugging it in backwards I won't be real\nsympathetic! \n \nIf you don't know how to tell what orientation the chip should be installed, \nDON'T GUESS!\n\n\n********************************DANA WEICK UPDATE:****************************\n\nI call him sunday, his wife Debbie picked up the phone. She said that he was \nbusy with his kids, and he would call me back in 10 minuets. Half an house\nwent by, Weick didn't called. I called him again, and his phone was discon-\nnected.\n\nSince this post, I have numberous people who mail me saying that this DANA\nWEICK have ripped them off. We got do something about this guy. He has\nappearrently been doing this for a few years now. And he is getting away\nwith it.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n-- ", "Hey Serdar,\n What nationality are you anyway? You are the supreme geek of\ngeekdom of the usenet. You are laeding a totally useless and futile life on\nyour computer Mr. Wimpy. You are the epitamy of a coward.I can predict that\nyou will spend the rest of your useless, wastefull and pitifull life on the\nUsenet. What a wasted life. \n********************************************************************\nSystem: fourd.com Phone: 617-494-0565\nCute quote: Being a computer means never having to say you're sorry\n********************************************************************\n\n", "\n\tTheir testimony would be a contradiction of the plaintiff's charge (and\nwitness) that the occupant moved after the impact, indicating he was alive and\ntrying to get out (and provoking all sorts of sympathetic 'gross, burned alive'\nreactions).\n\n\n\tThey are two witnesses who didn't come forth until after the first\ntrial. While it would be \"tough luck\" for GM if they new about these witnesses\nbeforehand, IMO this constitutes \"new evidence\".\n\n\n\tNo, I support rulings that deny new trials on those grounds.", "\nIf you were to start your own religion, this would be fine. But there\nis no scriptural basis for your statement, in fact it really gets to\nthe heart of the problem. You think you know more than scripture.\nYour faith is driven by feel goodism and not by the Word of God. Just\nbecause they are nice people doesn't make it right. You can start all\nthe churches you want and it won't change the fact that it is wrong.\nThat is not to imply that gays don't deserve the same love and\nforgiveness that anyone else does. But to call their behavior right\njust because they are nice people is baseless, and it offers Satan a\nperfect place to work because there is no check on what he is doing.", "hausner@qucis.queensu.ca (Alejo Hausner) Pontificated: \nTo split a split hair, I believe that teflon (-CF4- monomer) was\n\"discovered\" by accident when someone I don't remember\nfound what he thought was a liquid (or gas?) had turned to a\nsolid...\n\nIt just happend to fit the bill for the above use...\n\nI'm crossposting to sci.materials so perhaps someone in the know\nmight elaborate...\n", "The xgolf program was an April Fool's joke .", "This is the story of Kent, the archetype Finn, that lives in the \nBay Area, and tried to purchase Thomas Paine's \"Age of Reason\". This\nman was driving around, to Staceys, to Books Inc, to \"Well, Cleanlighted\nPlace\", to Daltons, to various other places.\n\nWhen he asked for this book, the well educated American book store\nassistants in most placed asked him to check out the thriller section,\nor then they said that his book has not been published yet, but they\nshould receive the book soon. In some places the assistants bluntly\nsaid that they don't know of such an author, or that he is not \na well known living author, so they don't keep copies of his books.\n\nSuch is the life and times of America, 200+ years after the revolution.\n\n\nCheers,\nKent", "\n\nSure. Why keep using oil? A hydrogen/electric economy would likely be\ncleaner and more efficient in the long run. The laws of supply and demand\nshould get the transition underway before we reach a critical stage of\nshortage.", "OK, here's something for all of those people who think cops are always\nmore responsible then the rest of the population. I found this article in the\nRocky Mountain Collegian, Colorado State University's newspaper.\n\n\tSUSPENDED POLICE OFFICER ARRESTED IN REVENGE TRIPLE HOMICIDE\n\nPROVIDENCE, R.I. (AP) -- A police officer afraid he would be fired for\nallegedly assaulting a teen-ager walked into an auto body shop wher the youth\nworked, said \"You're going to die\" and fatally shot him and two others, police\nsaid.\n\nA fourth youth was wounded. A fifth escaped injury by hiding under a car.\n\nThe wounded youth ran about two blocks to a house after the shooting at about\nmidnight Tuesday and called police. He was hospitalized in satisfactory\ncondition Wednesday.\n\nSuspended police officer Robert Sabetta, 23, of Cranston, was arrested at\ngunpoint over three hours after the shooting at Wilson's Auto Enterprises in\nFoster, a rural town of about 4,000 people in northwest Rhode Island.\n\n\tWell, this just goes to show that cops are capable of snapping, just\nlike everyone else. Now who was it who said only cops should have guns?", "\n CH> Concerning the proposed newsgroup split, I personally am not in\n CH> favor of doing this. I learn an awful lot about all aspects of\n CH> graphics by reading this group, from code to hardware to\n CH> algorithms. I just think making 5 different groups out of this\n CH> is a wate, and will only result in a few posts a week per group.\n CH> I kind of like the convenience of having one big forum for\n CH> discussing all aspects of graphics. Anyone else feel this way?\n CH> Just curious.\n\nI must agree. There is a dizzying number of c.s.amiga.* newsgroups\nalready. In addition, there are very few issues which fall cleanly\ninto one of these categories.\n\nAlso, it is readily observable that the current spectrum of amiga\ngroups is already plagued with mega-crossposting; thus the group-split\nwould not, in all likelihood, bring about a more structured\nenvironment.\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\nIs your stomach all right? Unable to digest your lunch?\nCool down... In the context of Bosnia muslims are a nation.\nAnd nobody talked about them being a race.\n\n\n\nAnd Yugoslavia was a recognized nation. If you apply the principle \nof self determination to Yugoslavia then you should apply it to\nCroatia and Bosnia. Of course, you might want to apply again to\nKossovo.", "\nThis is quite a misrepresentation. After WWI, many Bosnian Muslims were\nkilled and their land taken over by Serbs, and the motive was plunder,\nnot some fictitious \"supression of rebellion.\" Even earlier, one can\npoint to the destruction of mosques in Serbia itself and expulsion of\nMuslims. Here is what Dr. Vaso Cubrilovic, political adviser to the\nSerbian monarchic regime, says in his memorandum \"The Expulsion of the\nArnauts\" which he presented to the royal government of Stojadinovic\non March 7, 1937, in Belgrade:\n\n The Mode of Removal\n -------------------\n\n [ describes how expulsion of ethnic Albanians from Kosova is to proceed\n through state terror and \"private initiative\", i.e. Chetnik plunder: ]\n\n Private initiative, too, can assist greatly in this direction. We should\n distribute weapons to our colonists, as need be. The old forms of Chetnik\n action should be organized and secretly assisted. [...]\n ...the whole affair should be presented as a conflict between clans and,\n if need be, ascribed to economic reasons. Finally, local riots can be\n incited. These will be bloodily suppressed with the clans and the\n Chetniks, rather than the army.\n\n There remains one more means, WHICH SERBIA EMPLOYED WITH GREAT PRACTICAL\n EFFECT AFTER 1878, that is, by secretly burning down Albanian villages\n and city quarters.\n\n(Emphasis above is mine.) These events in Serbia itself forced out virtually\nall Muslims during late 19th century. This policy of state terrorism\nagainst Muslims, aided by Chetnik \"private initiative,\" has continued in WWII\nand today. For example, Muhamed Hadzijahic in his book \"Od tradicije do \nidentiteta: Geneza nacionalnog pitanja bosanskih Muslimana\" (Sarajevo:\nSvjetlost, 1974) writes (pg. 235) how Serbs killed a Muslim in Foca\nin WWII even though he claimed to be a Serbian patriot, explaining\ntheir action as follows:\n\n \"Inasmuch as you were a Serb, you sullied the Serb name, because you\n are a Turk [i.e. Muslim]. And since you helped us, we shall not\n torture you.\"\n\nso the shot him instead of cutting his throat. In the past year, Serbs\nhave repeated the slaughter of Muslim residents of Foca. Destruction\nof mosques, including priceless historical monuments, completes the\neradication of the Muslim presence from territories claimed by Serbs.\n\n\n\nWhich part do you claim is untrue? Explain yourself, or withdraw your claim.\n\n\nCroatia never had many Muslim citizens for historical reasons, because it\nwas not a part of the Ottoman Empire. The last major battles between\nAustro-Hungarian monarchy and the Ottoman Empire in Croatia were at the\nend of the 17th century. Need I remind you that modern Croatian nationalism\ncame into being with Dr. Ante Starcevic, who saw Bosnian Muslims as the\nbest Croats, so much so that in 1853 he contemplated moving his operations \nto Sarajevo? You are confusing clericalist Croatianism with Croatian\nnationalism here. Political nationalism has always been stronger. As\nfor your other theories, you are clearly overjoyed that Croat-Muslim\nalliance in Bosnia-Herzegovina is now in trouble. Arguments such as\nyours are clearly intended to create and deepen this split. \n\n\nIn international relations 101 you'll learn that unless weak unite to\ncounterbalance the strong player, soon they are taken over and that's the\nend of them. Balance of power thinking has brought together Croats\nand Bosnian Muslims. This is only natural; all other alignments are\nunstable. I'm working on pointing out this basic fact: Croats and\nMuslims have been aware of it for as long as Serbia has existed. \nYou are wrong if you think only \"image\" is at stake here. Croatia has\na deep interest in her alliance with Bosnian Muslims, and vice versa. \n\nI think Tudjman understands this, although he does not have much choice \nat this point. Tensions should have been defused better earlier, before \nany open confrontation developed. Although I still think Croatia will\nsurvive, it will lose a lot; but Bosnian Muslims may end up even worse\noff. However, their position now is so horrible that perhaps they do not\nsee it getting any worse. The key point is: do they still have any hope left?\nIf not, then all bets are off.\n\nMr. Stojanovic is clearly very, very happy about this. I'm deeply hurt.\nThis is not about some \"image\" but about survival of a concept of a\npartnership which I believe is natural and essential for both Croats\nand Muslims. ", " In article <1993Apr4.105514.11664@colorado.edu> ajteel@dendrite.cs.Colorado.EDU (A.J. Teel) writes...\n >\tNo, the definition of \"resident\" is very specific. It is the\n >same thing as \"alien\". Look it up. Remember that the common usage of\n >the words ARE NOT always their legal meaning.\n\n This I gotta see some authority for.\n\nfrom Black's Law Dictionary, Revised 4th Ed., page 1473:\n\nRESIDENCE. A factual place of abode. Living in a particular\nlocality. Reese v. Reese, 179 Misc. 665, 40 N.Y.S.2d 468, 472;\nZimmerman, 175 Or. 585, 155 P.2d 293, 295. It requires only bodily\npresence as an inhabitant of a place. In re Campbell's Guardianship,\n216 Minn. 113, 11 N.W.2d 786, 789.\n\n As ``domicile'' and ``residence'' are usually in the same place,\nthey are frequently used as if they had the same meaning, but they are\nnot identical terms, for a person may have two places of residence, as\nin the city and country, but only one domicile. Residence means\nliving in a particular locality, but domicile means living in that\nlocality with intent to make it a fixed and permanent home. Residence\nsimply requires bodily presence as an inhabitant in a given place,\nwhile domicile requires bodily presence in that place and also an\nintention to make it one's domicile. In re Riley's Will, 266 N.Y.S.\n209, 148 Misc. 588. ``Residence'' demands less intimate local ties\nthan ``domicile,'' but ``domicile'' allows absence for indefinite\nperiod if intent to return remains. Immigration Act 1917, sec. 3, 8\nU.S.C.A. sec. 136 (e, p). Transatlantica Italiana v. Elting,\nC.C.A.N.Y., 74 F.2d 732, 733. But see, Ward v. Ward, 115, W.Va 429,\n176 S.E. 708, 709; Southwestern Greyhound Lines v. Craig, 182 Okl.\n610, 80 P 2d 221, 224; holding that residence and domicile are\nsynonymous terms. ``Residence'' has a meaning dependent on context\nand purpose of statute. In re Jones, 341 Pa. 329, 19 A.2d 280, 282.\nWords ``residence'' and ``domicile'' may have an identical or variable\nmeaning depending on subject-matter and context of statute. Kemp v.\nKemp, 16 N.Y.S.2d 26, 34, 172 Misc. 738.\n\n Legal residence. See Legal.\n\nRESIDENT. One who has his residence in a place. See Residence.\n\n Also a tenant, who was obliged to reside on his lord's land, and\nnot to depart from the same; called, also, ``homme levant et\ncouchant,'' and in Normandy, ``resseant du fief.''\n", " (a.k.a. Serdar Argic, The Merciful and Compassionate)\n\n[Serdar Argic's bountiful, divine, all-knowing, and footnoted \nwisdom is regrettably omitted for this solemn tribute.]\n\n\nWHERE CAN I JOIN THE SERDAR ARGIC FAN CLUB? DO I GET A T-SHIRT?\n\n--The Friendly Neighborhood Alien--", "<-> > But, do you knew how much organization is required to training a large\n<-> > group of poeple twice a year. Just to try to get the same people\n<-> > every year, provide a basic training to new people so they can\n<-> > be integrated into the force, and find a suitable location, it \n<-> > requires a continually standing committee of organizers. \n<-> \n<-> Again, my response is, \"so what?\" Is Mr. Rutledge arguing that since\n<-> the local and federal governments have abandoned their charter to support\n<-> such activity, and passed laws prohibiting private organizations from \n<-> doing so, that they have eliminated the basis for the RKBA? On the\n<-> contrary, to anyone who understands the game, they have strengthened it.\n<\n Mox nix, Mr. Rutledge. YOU are the only one here claiming that the\n<-> RKBA is dependent on the existence of a top-flight, well-regulated\n<-> militia. Why this is a false assumption has already been posted a \n<-> number of times. \n<\n\nstart to hide things from the IRS, sell drugs/guns/pornography, and\nthat cannot be allowed!)\n", "I don't know much about phones in Germany, but this is what I know: I bought\na phone in the U.S. for my mother who lives in Bratislava, Slovakia and it\nworks just fine. The problem is they don't have wall jacks like we do here.\nThere is a wire without any jack at the end sticking out of the wall. So you\nneed to connect the wires (I'm not sure if they have wall jacks in Western\nEurope - they may). Hope this helps. Dagmar kniha@carson.u.washington.edu\n\n", "\n\n[stuff deleted]\n\n\nReally? How do you avoid situations which encourage criminals? I'd\nreally like to know. Would you, say, prohibit female college\nstudents from riding their bicycles near the university during the\ndaytime? \n\nSounds a bit drastic, doesn't it? Especially when the university is\nlocatd in a nice residential area. A friend of mine was attacked and\nnearly raped in just this situation. The police didn't feel she was\nin a situation which 'encouraged criminals'.\n\nWhat do you think? Should we just tell her, that it was her fault\nfor daring to ride a bicycle in the middle of the day? That she\ndidn't avoid a situation that encouraged criminals? If that's the\ncase, then we'd all better put bars on our doors and windows and\npray for a police state to keep us all safe. Crime happens in all\nsituations - there are no defined areas that criminals avoid. ", "\n\n1. Please take this out of sci.space.\n\n2. Ayn Rand was not only born in Russia, but educated there. A lot\nof her philosophy reflects not only a European education but a \nreaction against certian events in Russia while she lived there.\nI've heard that to the extent there is a division of modern philosophy\nbetween the \"Continental\" and British/American schools, Rand belongs in\nthe former in terms of methodology et al, even though she was trying to\nsay things that would belong in the latter school.\n\nI.e. she was trapped in the language of Kant and Hegel, even though\nshe was trying to say (at times) much different things.\n", "\nLevel 5 refers to the Carnegie-Mellon Software Engineering Institute's\nCapability Maturity Model. This model rates software development\norg's from1-5. with 1 being Chaotic and 5 being Optimizing. DoD is\nbeginning to use this rating system as a discriminator in contracts. I\nhave more data on thifrom 1 page to 1000. I have a 20-30 page\npresentation that summarizes it wethat I could FAX to you if you're\ninterested...\nBret Wingert\nWingert@VNET.IBM.COM", "\n If I recall, Jen said right up front how the sample set was derived.\nWhere's the FUD?\n\n\n\n Does this mean I can flame you if I ever see you doing it?\n Face it - the .advocacy groups are _for_ the kind of things that\nyou're preaching against. This is why they were created in the first\nplace - to filter out all the crap from the newsgroups that might\ncontain real information.\n\n\t\t\t\t-Phil", "I've been thinking about how difficult it would be to make PGP available\nin some form on EBCDIC machines. The message authentication would be ugly,\nbut I think at least the IDEA encryption could work, if PGP had a switch\nto tell it to use IDEA in OFB-mode or ECB-mode. In OFB-mode, errors in\ntranslating EBCDIC-->ASCII-->EBCDIC would only affect their byte, not the\n16 bytes that would be affected under CBC.\n Is PGP set up to use different IDEA modes? I don't recall notincing it\nin the executable, but I haven't gone through it as carefully as I probably\nshould....", "\n\n *Paranoia part deleted.*", "\n There are a couple of ways to look at them. One is, \"We want\nyou to support this Constitution, so we'll say anything that we think\nwill appeal to you,\" or the more straightforward, \"This is why we think\nwhat we've suggested in this Constitution is a good idea.\"\n\n You clearly consider the former to be the primary situation.\n\n\n Well, I know Hamilton was a dyed in the wool monarchist, and \nprobably the authoritarian extreme to Jefferson's democratic impules.\nBut what would you suggest as a means of determining their opinions\non the government if we don't consider what they wrote about the\ngovernment?\n\n And is writing in support of something automatically \"propoganda\"\nto the point we must assume it is untrue or that they are saying what\nthey don't believe?\n\n\n If the Senate was less powerful than the House of Lords, than\nwe'd almost have to state that the House of Representatives was also.\n(In fact, they both were, because the British government had much\ngreater power than did the American system). \n\n\n I disagree. The system is not too slow, it was simply designed to\nhandle less than it has demanded that it handle. As somebody in Washington\nput it (whose name I forget), \"Congress has become everybody's city\ncouncil.\"\n\n Congress is more than capable of quick action, and has more than\nenough power and time on its hands, if it confined itself to what its\noriginal jurisidiction was and allowed more local autonomy.\n\n It is not a case of the system of government they created failing,\nbut that it is operating under a set of conditions they specifically\nwanted to avoid. Namely, a concentration of power. It would seem\nthen that the proper thing to do is not to reduce the power of either\nHouse in some attempt to grease the wheels. All you'll get then is\na system which moves quicker to do stupid things. It would make more\nsense to make more decisions at a local level.\n\n\n Please explain to me how Bush abused the veto in an \"extraordinary\"\nmanner.\n\n\n I fail to see where any restrictions, implied or otherwise, were\nplaced on the veto. It could just as easily have been read as a means\nto put a check on democratically popular but unwise (in the executive's\nopinion) policies. \n\n There is no limit in the Constitution to the President's veto power\nregarding what a bill is for. Previous Presidents have used the veto\nfor any number of reasons, most usually having something to do with their\nagenda. I am really curious how you single Bush out as *the* President\nwho abused vetos.\n\n\n Why is it not a reasonable restriction? Because 51 Senators\nis the magic holy number upon which Laws must be based? If 41 Senators\nfeel safe enough with their state constituencies to stand up and \nfillibuster isn't that *enough* to indicate there's a sufficient question\nas to whether a law is a good idea or not to re-evaluate it?\n\n Why one earth *should* 51% be sufficient to enact a law which\ncovers 250 million people in very, very diverse places and living\nin radically different conditions? Why *shouldn't* a super-majority\nbe required?\n\n Any system in which the simple majority is given absolute power\nto ignore the minority then the minority *will* be ignored. I do not\nsee this as a positive thing. And for all that I'm sure the Republicans\nare looking for pork as much as the Democrats, they've got some legitimate\nobjections to the legislation in question.\n", "\n------------ Part 7 of 14 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End of part 7 of 14 --------\n \n\n\n", "I think I can explain the \"missing part of a leaf\" story.\n\nI have actually seen a reproduction of that particular Kirlian\nphotograph, in a book compiled by people who were enthusiasts of\nKirlian photography. \"That particular photograph\" ... ? That's\nright, the effect has been observed only once. Even the writers of\nthe book were inclined to disbelieve in it. \n\nI conjecture that the maker of that photograph began by placing\na whole leaf between two plates and taking its Kirlian photo.\nFor his next experiment, he cut the leaf in half, put one half down\nbetween the same two plates, and took another K. p. The\n\"missing half\" effect was created by water, oils, etc. left behind \nafter the first photo.\n\nThis explanation must be tentative, because after all I wasn't there\nwhen it happened. ", "\n\nAHA! He admits it! He IS a moral relativist!\n\nKeith, if you start wafffling on about how it is different for a human\nto maul someone thrown into it's cage (so to speak), you'd better start\nposting tome decent evidence or retract your 'I think there is an absolute\nmorality' blurb a few weeks ago.\n\n\nThe Desert Brat", "\n For your information, I checked the Library of Congress catalog,\nand they list the following books by Francis Hitching:\n\n Earth Magic\n\n The Neck of the Giraffe, or Where Darwin Went Wrong\n\n Pendulum: the Psi Connection\n\n The World Atlas of Mysteries\n", ":>\n:> I would not be suprised if the equipment is compatible, in fact New York\n:>Telephone (NYNEX) spend a lot of money on Swedish switching equipment\n:>recently.\n:>\n:>>Lars-Henrik Eriksson Internet: lhe@sics.se\n:>\n:> You can guess what brand of equipment I refer to :-)\n:>\n:\tLars-Henrik will be pleased to know that his name is\n:plastered all over phones at New Mexico State University as well.\n:They got the contract when NMSU went to a digital phone system.\n[snip]\n\nNot quite correct! The company name is Ericsson. (With a 'c').\n\n\n---", "\n\nProbably, law enforcement people (Park Service Police and D.C. cops),\nwho will use aerial photographs and extrapolate based on the\ndensity of the crowd in small regions.\n\nThese sort of techniques derive from Army Intelligence and CIA\nmethods of estimating troop strength, and tend to be\nmethodologically skewed to always come up with inflated numbers,\nso as to justify bigger budgets.", "\nFlights of fancy, and other irrational approaches, are common. The crucial\nthing is not to sit around just having fantasies; they aren't of any use\nunless they make you do some experiments. I've known a lot of scientists\nwhose fantasies lead them on to creative work; usually they won't admit\nout loud what the fantasy was, prior to the consumption of a few beers.\n\n(Simple example: Warren Jelinek noticed an extremely heavy band on a DNA\nelectrophoresis gel of human ALU fragments. He got very excited, hoping that\nhe'd seen some essential part of the control mechanism for eukaryotic\ngenes. This fantasy led him to sequence samples of the band and carry out\nbinding assays. The result was a well-conserved, 400 or so bp, sequence\nthat occurs about 500,000 times in the human genome. Unfortunately for\nWarren's fantasy, it turns out to be a transposon that is present in\nso many copies because it replicates itself and copies itself back into\nthe genome. On the other hand, the characteristics of transposons were\nmuch elucidated; the necessity of a cellular reverse transcriptase was\nrecognized; and the standard method of recognizing human DNA was created.\nOther species have different sets of transposons. Fortunately for me,\nWarren and I used to eat dinner at T.G.I. Fridays all the time.)\n\n\nI'm not sure that it's random. But there is no known rational mechanism\nfor generating a rich set of interesting hypotheses. If you are really\nworking in an unknown area, it is unlikely that you will have much sense\nof what might or might not be true; under those circumstances, the best\nthing to do is just follow whatever instincts you have. If they are wrong,\nyou will find out soon enough; but at least, you will find out _something_.\nIf you try to do experiments at random, with no prior conceptions at all\nin mind, you will probably get nowhere.\n\n\nUnfortunately, the critical function does sometimes become hostage to\nnon-rational forces. Then we get varieties of pathological science:\nLysenko, Mirsky's opposition to DNA-as-gene, cold fusion, and so forth.\n\n\nI don't agree that this follows. In fact, this is _exactly_ the point at\nwhich I disagree with Feyerabend. It is a most important part of the\nculture of science that one keeps one's jealousies out of the refereeing\nprocess. Failures there are aplenty, but, on the whole, things work out.\n\nAnother point: there are a couple of senses of the phrase ``experimental\ndesign''. I'd say that the less rational part is in experimental _choice_,\nnot design. Alexander Fleming (Proc. Royal Soc., 1922) chose to look for\nbacteriophage in his own mucus for strange reasons (Phage had previously\nbeen found in locust diarrhea; Fleming probably thought runny bottom, runny\nnose, what the hell, it's worth a try.) but his method of looking for phage\nwas well-designed to detect anything phage-like; in fact, he found lysozyme.\n\n\nIt is not clear to me what you mean by rational vs. irrational. Perhaps\nyou can give a few examples of surprising experiments that were tried out\nfor perfectly rational reasons, or interesting new theories that were first\nadvanced from logical grounds. The main examples I can think of are from\nmodern high-energy physics which is not typical of science as a whole.", "Every time you read about a shuttle landing they mention the double sonic \nbooms. Having taken various relevant classes, I have several ideas of where \nthey come from, but none of them are very convincing. Exactly what causes \nthem? Are they a one time pheneomenon, or a constant one like the supersonic \nshockwave that is constantly produced by a plane, but you hear only when it \ngoes over you?\n\n---\n---------------------------------------------------------------------", "\n\nThe remainder of my article deleted stated why. One would be an egotist to\nbelieve that someone CARED about what Bill R. thought he needed\nto say about God. Whether they did or not is irrelevant.", "FURY OF MOTHER NATURE\n\nMan's contribution to environmental \"pollution\" are paltry compared to those \nof nature. In her exceptional book TRASHING THE PLANET, former Atomic Energy \nCommision Chairman Dr. Dixie Lee Ray notes based on the available data, \"all \nof the air polluting materials produced by man since the beginning of the \nindustrial revolution do not begin to equal the quantities of toxic \nmaterials, aerosols, and particulates spewed into the air from just three \nvolcanoes: Krakatoa in Indonesia in 1883, Mount Katmai in Alaska in 1912, and \nHekla in Iceland in 1947.\" To which could be added Mount St. Helens in \nWashington State in 1980 (which pumped out 910,000 metric tons of carbon \ndioxide alone). El Chicon in Mexico in 1982 (which sent more than 100 million \ntons of sulfur gases into the stratosphere), and Mount Pinatubo in the \nPhilippines (which in 1991 hurled upwards of 30 million tons of material into \nthe stratosphere).\nLOS NINOS\nMany environmentalists attributed the 1988 drought in the U.S. to global \nwarming, but researchers with the National Center for Atmospheric Research in \nBoulder Colorado reported that the freakish weather was actually due to a \nnatural phenomenon, the interaction of El Nino and El Nina, two massive \ncurrents in the tropical Pacific. El Nino is a huge strip of warm water that \nperiodically appears off the coast of South America and disrupts the world's \nweather patterns. Now and then, it alternates with El Nina, a mass of cold \nwater that comes from the ocean depths along the equator and drifts for \nthousands of miles.\nCHICAGO TRIBUNE'S Peter Gorner summarized the phenomenon: \"Cold water along \nthe equator clashed with warmer than normal water southeast of Hawaii. The \nresult was both the U.S. drought and the devastating floods that swamped \nBangladesh...... Nina's cooler water disrupted tropical weather patterns and \ndistorted the path of the Jet Stream across North America. Then the Jet \nStream shoved rain-producing weather systems away from the interior of the \nU.S. resulting in drought.\"\nTERMITE TERROR\n\nSundry animals and insects also contribute their share to environmental \n\"degradation. TIME for April 20,1992 noted that in \"the Netherlands... manure \nfrom pigs poses a major ecological threat, defiling water supplies with \nexcessive nitrites and acidifying local soils. Sheep have permanently scarred \nthe landscape in Spain and Portugal, while in India ... bovines [cows] are \nravenous wraiths whose constant quest for food drives them to ravage \nstanding forrests.\"\nThe February 1983 issue of SCIENCE DIGEST reported that \"an international \nteam of researchers has discovered that termites generate more than twice the \nCarbon Dioxide that fuel burning does.\" According to a study reported in \nSCIENCE for November 5, 1982, the \"estimated gross amount of Carbon Dioxide \nproduced [by termites] was more than twice the net global input from fossil \nfuel combustion.\" In addition, \"Termites are a potentially important source \nof atmospheric methane: they could account for a large fraction of global \nemmisions.\" The wood-eating pests have a bacteria that enables them too \ndigest carbon so efficiently that some 90 pe is converted too Carbon Dioxide, \nmethane, and other gases they belch into the atmosphere.\nAnts are another natural source of \"pollution.\" In 1987, an atmospheric \nchemist with Bell Laboratories, and zoologists from Cornell University, \nreported that ants of the subfamily FORMICINAE make and store huge quantities \nof the formic acid that contributes most of the acidity of rain that falls in \nremote areas and is found in atmosphere gas and precepitation around the \nglobe. It is abundant, for instance, in the fog and mists that hang over the \nrain forests of Central Africa. According to the July 6, 1987 INSIGHT \nmagazine, the \"ants release the acid when defending themselves and \ncommunicating with each other and upon dying. Since 30 percent of the world \nant population belongs to this subfamily, there is significant concern about \nthe acid the ants release,\" an amount estimated at \"600,000 metric tons \nannually.\" which is equal to the combined formic acid contributions of \nautomobiles, refuse combustion and vegetation.\"\nClearly, man has a long way to go to match nature as a \"despoiler\" of the \nenvironment.\nBy Robert W. Lee.\n\n", "This is just a test to see if this works.\n\n", " A suggestion: Slave (hook in series) a small pilot light off the fan\ncircuit. Then, if the light goes out, you know your fan is not working.", "Three Bedrooms, One Updated Bath\n\nProfessionally Lanscaped Front Yard w/ Sprinklers\n\nUtilities in Attached One Car Garage\n\nRecently Painted Inside\n\nConvenient Commute Location\n\nSchools: Whisman Elementary, Crittenden Jr. High, Mountain View High\n\n$209,900", "\n: Living things maintain small electric fields to (1) enhance certain\n: chemical reactions, (2) promote communication of states with in a\n: cell, (3) communicate between cells (of which the nervous system is\n: a specialized example), and perhaps other uses.\n\nTrue.\n\n: These electric fields change with location and time in a large\n: organism.\n\nAlso True.\n\n\n: Special photographic techniques such as applying external fields in\n: Kirillian photography interact with these fields or the resistances\n: caused by these fields to make interesting pictures.\n\nNot really. \n\nKirlian photography is taking pictures of the corona discharge from\nobjects (animate or inanimate). The fields applied to the objects are\nmillions of times larger than any biologically created fields. If you\nwant to record the biologically created electric fields, you've got to\nuse low-noise, high-gain sensors typical of EEGs and EKGs. Kirlian\nphotography is just phun-with-physics type stuff (right up there with\nsoaking chunks of extra-fine steel wool in liquid oxygen then hitting\nthem with a hammer -- which, like a Kirlean setup, is fun but possibly\ndangerous).\n\n: Perhaps such pictures will be diagonistic of disease problems in\n: organisms when better understood. Perhaps not.\n\nProbably not.\n", "\n\n\n\nThe fact that she was wearing a miniskirt with no underwear was\npresented as evidence that she was a prostitute, and the court\napparently found this compelling.\n\n\nClayton does indeed know the difference. Greg apparently doesn't.\n\n\n\nBecause the judge found that there was some credible evidence that the\nMarines were engaged in self-defense. Got it, knucklehead?\n\n\n\nBecause, in part [REPEAT AFTER ME], \"the judge found that there was\nsome credible evidence that the Marines were engaged in self-defense\".\nHopefully, one of these days you will understand.\n\n\nWith respect to credibility, I would rate Clayton Cramer an order of\nmagnitude higher than a) the news media, and b) homosexuals.\n\n\nClayton is indeed consistent. And so are you.", "Two or three years ago I saw a report on TV about a company that had \ndeveloped a method of making solar cells on a flexible substrate. My\nfailing memory has convinced me it was some flexible metal. I now have\nan application that requires a flexible solar cell and was hoping someone\nout in netland knows something about this company or a similar product.\nAny help would be greatly appreciated.", "** For my computer law module I have been asked to write a computer \n contract for the supply of computer software to a business. The\n software is being especially written for the company.\n\n Would anyone, per chance happen to have a copy of a computer\n contract on their system which they could mail me.\n\n If anyone has a computer contract but it contains sensitive \n material then I can assure them that it will remain confidential\n and I will not pass it on, or allow anyone else to view it.\n\n Thanks.\n\n\n\n", "I participated in a promotion by a company called Visual Images.\nI attempted to cancel my order before the package arrived. I was\nnot able to stop them and now I have a package which I do not need.\n\nNishika 3D camera, wide angle flesh, film, carring case, instruction\ntapes, and some jewelrys.\n\n3 vacation vouchers to Bahama, Cancun, Las Vegas, Orlando.\n\nI paid $697 for the promotion package, and the vacation vouchers\ncame as gift. I really want to sell them, so make me an offer for\nthe whole package. If you are participating in a award, $697 is how\nmuch you would end up paying. And I strongly believe that you would\nget the same award as I do. If you are interested in those items,\nyou could get them from me for a cheaper price.\n\nLet me know, and make me an offer. No flames please, I have got enough.\n\nYou could reach me at koutd@hirama.hiram.edu", "\n------------ Part 12 of 14 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End of part 12 of 14 --------\n\n", "Quoting amanda@intercon.com (Amanda Walker) in article <1rn1b3$khb@news.intercon.com>:\n", " \n\ndoes anyone have the e-mail address for the white house. if so please send it to\nme thanks a lot.\n\n\n \n", "I haven't recognized any names from previous discussions, but I do\nnotice that there are a few who blame Clinton for the actions of the\nBATF in Waco. Unless you felt the same way about what we did under\nBush's *direct* command in Panama, it's just partisan whining. Which is\nwhat I expect most of it to be. I can see no way to condemn one and not\nthe other. \n\nBut I'm sure some Limbot will tell me how killing thousands of\nPanamanian civilians to serve an arrest warrant is much better than\nallowing 80 religious fanatics to commit suicide following a botched\nattempt by the BATF to serve a search warrant.", "=>Greg:Flame definitely intended here. Bill was making fun of the misspelling. \n=>Go look up the word \"krill.\" Also, the correct spelling is Kirlian. It\n=>involves taking photographs of corona discharges created by attaching the\n=>subject to a high-voltage source, not of some \"aura.\" It works equally well\n=>with inanimate objects.\n=\n=True.. but what about showing the missing part of a leaf? Is this\n=\"corona discharge\"?\n\nYup. The demonstration to which you refer consists of placing a leaf between\nthe plates, and taking a Kirlian photograph of it. You then cut off part of\nthe leaf, put the top plate back on, and take another Kirlian photograph. You\nsee pretty much the same image in both cases. Turns out the effect isn't\nnearly so striking if you take the trouble to clean the plates between\nphotographs. Seems that the moisture from the leaf that you left on the place\nconducts electricity. Surprise, surprise!\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nCarl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL", "Andrew,\nYou can get the heat sinks at Digi-Key 1-800-344-4539 part #HS157-ND\n$4.10 size 1.89\"L x 1.89\"W x .600\"H comes with clips to install it.\nBut if it was me I would get a $12.99 small fan from Radio Shack\nand install it where it could just blow at the cpu instead...Sam", "Habital planets are also dependent on what kind of plant life can be grown..\nand such.. Length of growing season (that is if you want something more than\nVAT food, argh, Id ratehr eat an MRE for along period of time).\n\nI know in Fairbanks (Furbanks to some) the winter can get to -60 or so F, but\nin the summer can get to +90 and such.. I know of worse places..\n \nIncans and Sherpa and other low pressure atmosphere and such are a limit in\nhuman adaptability(someone mentioend that Incan woman must come to lower\nelevations to have babies brought to term? true?) I remember a book by\nPourrnelle I think that delt with a planet was lower density air..\n\nI wonder what the limit on the other end of atmospheres?\n\nI am limiting to human needs and stresses and not alien possibilties..\nThou aliens might be more adapted to a totally alien to human environment, such\nas the upper atmosphere of Jupiter or??\n\nAlmost makes bio-engineered life easy...", "\n...", "\nJapan is _much_ more open than Korea.\n\nYes. A Pontiac Grand Am suffers a factor of _2_ increase in price\nwhen it is exported to Japan.\n\nHowever, a Dodge vehicle (the one that Congressman Gephardt mentioned)\nsuffers a factor of _4_ increase in price when it is exported to Korea.\nA Ford Taurus suffers the same problem. A Honda Accord costs--I am\nnot making this up--$48,000 in Korea.\n\nJust how many people would want to buy a Honda Accord for $48,000?\n\nSolution: All ships carrying Korean-made vehicles should be returned\n to Seoul. Pronto. Until as such time as Korea decides\n that it wants to abide by the rules of free and fair trade\n with the USA and Japan.", "\nNow where did I put my little red book? Or was that green?\n\nJim", "Archive-name: cryptography-faq/part07\nLast-modified: 1993/4/15\n\n\nFAQ for sci.crypt, part 7: Digital Signatures and Hash Functions\n\nThis is the seventh of ten parts of the sci.crypt FAQ. The parts are\nmostly independent, but you should read the first part before the rest.\nWe don't have the time to send out missing parts by mail, so don't ask.\nNotes such as ``[KAH67]'' refer to the reference list in the last part.\n\nThe sections of this FAQ are available via anonymous FTP to rtfm.mit.edu \nas /pub/usenet/news.answers/cryptography-faq/part[xx]. The Cryptography \nFAQ is posted to the newsgroups sci.crypt, sci.answers, and news.answers\nevery 21 days.\n\n\nContents:\n\n* What is a one-way hash function?\n* What is the difference between public, private, secret, shared, etc.?\n* What are MD4 and MD5?\n* What is Snefru?\n\n\n* What is a one-way hash function?\n\n A typical one-way hash function takes a variable-length message and\n produces a fixed-length hash. Given the hash it is computationally\n impossible to find a message with that hash; in fact one can't\n determine any usable information about a message with that hash, not\n even a single bit. For some one-way hash functions it's also\n computationally impossible to determine two messages which produce the\n same hash.\n\n A one-way hash function can be private or public, just like an\n encryption function. Here's one application of a public one-way hash\n function, like MD5 or Snefru. Most public-key signature systems are\n relatively slow. To sign a long message may take longer than the user\n is willing to wait. Solution: Compute the one-way hash of the message,\n and sign the hash, which is short. Now anyone who wants to verify the\n signature can do the same thing.\n\n Another name for one-way hash function is message digest function.\n\n* What is the difference between public, private, secret, shared, etc.?\n\n There is a horrendous mishmash of terminology in the literature for a\n very small set of concepts. When an algorithm depends on a key which\n isn't published, we call it a private algorithm; otherwise we call it\n a public algorithm. We have encryption functions E and decryption\n functions D, so that D(E(M)) = M for any message M. We also have\n hashing functions H and verification functions V, such that V(M,X) = 1\n if and only if X = H(M).\n\n A public-key cryptosystem has public encryption and private\n decryption. Checksums, such as the application mentioned in the\n previous question, have public hashing and public verification.\n Digital signature functions have private hashing and public\n verification: only one person can produce the hash for a message,\n but everyone can verify that the hash is correct.\n\n Obviously, when an algorithm depends on a private key, it's meant to\n be unusable by anyone who doesn't have the key. There's no real\n difference between a ``shared'' key and a private key: a shared key\n isn't published, so it's private. If you encrypt data for a friend\n rather than ``for your eyes only'', are you suddenly doing\n ``shared-key encryption'' rather than private-key encryption? No.\n\n* What are MD4 and MD5?\n\n MD4 and MD5 are message digest functions developed by Ron Rivest.\n Definitions appear in RFC 1320 and RFC 1321 (see part 10). Code is\n available from [FTPMD].\n\n Note that a transcription error was found in the original MD5 draft\n RFC. The corrected algorithm should be called MD5a, though some\n people refer to it as MD5.\n\n* What is Snefru?", "\n\n\tWhy \"must\"?\n\n--- \n\n \" Whatever promises that have been made can than be broken. \"", "Try this one, a favorite around here:\n\nBureau of Assholes, Tightwads, and Facists.\n\nAnd remember, they were created by the Infernal Revenue Code.\n\n\t\t\t--msa\n\n", "\n\nWhat I've been saying is that moral behavior is likely the null behavior.\nThat is, it doesn't take much work to be moral, but it certainly does to\nbe immoral (in some cases). Also, I've said that morality is a remnant\nof evolution. Our moral system is based on concepts well practiced in\nthe animal kingdom.\n\n\nBut, this doesn't get us anywhere. Your particular beliefs are irrelevant\nunless you can share them or discuss them...", "In the course of discussing the Sabbath with some folks, \nI came across something that was completely new to me, \nand I thought I'd offer it for comment.\n\nTo keep this as brief as possible, let me state my \nobservation as a declarative statement, and then whoever \nwants to can comment on it. Basically, what I think \nI've observed is that the phrase \"the Ten Commandments\", \nas used by Moses, is not a reference to Ex. 20:1-17, but \nrather a reference to ten distinct discourses from Ex. \n20:1 through Ex. 31:18. That is, the phrase \"the Ten \nCommandments\" should more accurately be translated \"the \nTen Discourses\", of which the passage we call the \"Ten \nCommandments\" is really only the first.\n\nI'm not completely convinced that the above is true, but \nfor purposes of discussion, let me argue it as though I \nwas sure.\n\nArguments supporting the above idea:\n\n1) There aren't really ten commandments in Ex. 20:1-17. \nIn order to get 10 commandments, you have to get two of \nthem out of verses 3-6, and the verses themselves do not \nsupport such a division because they are all about not \nworshipping other gods. That is, verse 3 commands to \nhave no other gods, and verse 5 commands to not worship \nthe idols mentioned in verse 4. You can't violate \nverses 5-6 without violating verse 3, indicating that \nthe whole passage is one command, and leaving us with \nonly Nine \"Commandments\". I could go on at length about \nthis, but for now I'll just stop with this summary.\n\n2) There ARE ten speeches between Ex 20:1 (the beginning\nof the traditional \"Ten Commandments\") and Ex 31:18 \n(where God actually gives Moses the two tablets with the \nTen Commandments/Discourses written on them). I break \nthese ten down as follows: 20:1-17; 20:22-26; 21:1-23:33; \n25:1-30:10; 30:11-16; 30:17-21; 30:22-33; 30:34-38; \n31:1-11; and 31:12-18. In most cases, each of these \npassages begins with some variation of the phrase, \"And \nthe LORD spoke to Moses, saying...\" The exception is \nEx. 21:1, which begins \"Now these are the ordinances \nwhich you are to set before them...\"\n\n3) The word translated \"commandments\" in the phrase \n\"the Ten Commandments\" isn't really the word for \n\"commandment\", its the word for a speech, or an \nutterance. It's a word often used for longer discourses \nrather than individual statements; for instance, when \ncombined with the word 'yom' (day), this word is \ntranslated \"Chronicles\" in such phrases as \"now the rest \nof the acts of so-and-so, are they not written in the \nChronicles of x?...\" The word for \"commandment\" is \nfreely used throughout the books of Moses, and perhaps \nit is significant that when Moses spoke of the Ten X's, \nhe appears to have avoided the word for commandment and \nchosen instead a word associated with discourses longer \nthan just a single command.\n\n4) God tells Moses that He is going to give him the \nstone tablets \"with the law and the commandments\" (Ex \n24:12), yet He does not give Moses the tablets until He \nhas finished all ten discourses on Mount Sinai. If the \nTen Commandments were only Ex. 20:1-17, it is not \nimmediately clear why God would wait several days and \nnine more discourses before giving these tablets to \nMoses. On the other hand, if we have the Ten Discourses \nwritten on the tablets, then it makes perfect sense that \nGod would not give Moses the tablets until He had \nfinished delivering all Ten Discourses.\n\n5) When Moses did get the tablets, he found that both \ntablets were written on both sides (Ex. 32:15). If \nthese Ten \"Commandments\" were only the first 17 verses \nof Ex. 20, God would have had to have written in LARGE \nletters! Not that He couldn't have, of course, but it \ndoes seem more likely to me that this is a reference to \ntwo tablets containing ten discourses written in normal-\nsized letters.\n\n6) In II Cor. 3, Paul seems to specifically single out \nthe \"commandments written on stone\" as being the \n\"ministry of death\", \"that which is fading away,\" and \n\"the ministry of condemnation.\" With the possible \nexception of the commandment about the Sabbath, it is \ndifficult to see why Paul would refer to the commands in \nEx. 20:1-17 as being temporary, \"fading away\"-type \ncommandments. This is less of a problem if the stone \ntablets should happen to have included all of the \ncommandments from Ex 20 through Ex 31.\n\nArguments against this idea:\n\nThe main argument against this idea, aside from the fact \nthat it contradicts a long-standing tradition, is that \nin Dt 5:22, Moses says, after quoting the commands in \nEx. 20:1-17, \"These words the LORD spoke...and He added \nno more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and \ngave them to me.\" This appears to identify the words \njust quoted as being the only contents of the two stone \ntablets.\n\nThat was my first impression, anyway. However, after \nsome thought, I noted that a great deal hinges on how \nyou understand the phrase \"These words.\" If Moses meant \n\"These words *which I have just related to you* were \nspoken by God\" etc., then that would mean that only the \ntraditional \"Ten Commandments\" were on the stone \ntablets. If, however, Moses was making a parenthetical \ncomment--\"These words *which I AM NOW telling you* were \nspoken by God\" etc.--then that's quite different.\n\nI did note that in the Dt 5 account, Moses tells of \nbeing given the stone tablets BEFORE telling of the \npeople asking Moses to represent them before God, \nwhereas in the Exodus account, the people asked this of \nMoses between the first and second discourses, several \ndays BEFORE God gave Moses the stone tablets. This \nreinforces the idea that Moses' remarks in Dt 5:22ff \nwere intended as a parenthetical remark, rather than a \nstrictly chronological account of when God wrote what, \nand at what point He stopped adding to what was on the \ntablets.\n\nSummary: all things considered, I find it somewhat more \nlikely that the nine commands in Ex 20 are really only \nthe first of what Moses regarded as the Ten Discourses \nof God. I don't know if anybody has ever espoused this \nidea before; it's brand-new to me. So, while I lean \ntowards accepting it, I would be very interested in \nhearing any comments and criticisms anyone may care to \noffer.", "\nInsofar as several \"liberal\" jurisdictions are concerned, the essential\nelements of rape are gender neutral. Nonetheless, I decided to provide\na number of references to support my original argument. Black's Law\nDictionary (every law student/lawyer's friend) defines rape as: Unlawful\nsexual intercourse with a female without her consent. The unlawful\nknowledge of a woman by a man forcibly and against her will. The Model\nPenal Code (the statute proposed by the National Conference of Commissioners\nof Uniform State Laws or other organization for adoption by state legislatures)\ndefines rape as: A male who has sexual intercourse with a female not his wife\nis guilty of rape if he (a) compels her to submit by force or by threat of\nimminent death.... (MPC @213.1(1)(a))\n\nIndeed the following jurisdictions/states have statutes similar to the MPC:\n\nAlabama-- Code of Ala. @13A-6-61 (1992)\nArkansas--Ark.Stat.Ann. @5-14-103 (1993)\nDistrict of Columbia--D.C. Code @22-2801 (1992)\nGeorgia--O.F.G.A. @16-6-1 (1992)\nIdaho--Idaho Code @18-6101 (1992)\nMaryland--Md.Ann.Code.Art. 27 @462 (1992)\nMississippi--Miss.Code Ann. @97-3-71 (1993)\nNew York (check case law)--N.Y.C.L.S. Penal @130.35 (1993)\nNorth Carolina--N.C. Gen.Stat. @14-27-2 (1992)\nPuerto Rico--L.P.R.A. @4062 (1993)\n\nTa,", "\n<...more accusations about a worldwide conspiracy against blacks.>\n\nSince Jesus was born in the Middle East, then I expect his human\nfeatures to be similar to Middle Easterners at that point in time.\nAnd since the camera wasn't invented yet we can only guess what \nhe looked like. For example, with all the dinosaur bones we're\ndigging up we still don't know if they were yellow-polka-dotted,\nor purplish-orange 8-). Likewise, I don't think anybody has a \npicture of Jesus (is there ? 8-) ) So our current image of \nJesus is our best guess.\n\nOkay. So let's assume that Jesus is black. Would that make you\nfollow His techings ? Cause if you follow His teachings, skin \ncolor becomes a moot point, anyway. What counts more in your\nlife ? Your faith in Jesus or His skin color (as a human) ?\n\nIn the interest of historical accuracy, however, since Jesus\nwas from Israel wouldn't His skin color be like any other Jew ?\ni.e. fair-skinned ? Although probably heavily tanned from the\ndesert sun ? Experts in this area speak up !!! cause I'm not. 8-)\n\n\n\n-- ", " \n\n\nGreg,\nNo flame intended, but I think you just missed one of the rare attempts of\nhumor in sci.skeptic.\n\"Krillean\" against \"Kirilian\". Get it?\n;-)\n\nBTW, I think you're a bit of base yourself, since, to my knowledge, the\nelectromagnetic field around a stone is rather abscent. But still, a stone\nhas a nice \"aura\" on the Kirilian photographs.\n\nDon't remember excactly, but \"corona discharge\" I think is a more fitting\nexpression than aura. Think you'll find something on this in the skeptic-faq.\n", "In response to a lot of email I've gotten, I need to clarify my position.\n\nI am not in favor of paganism.\n\nI am not in favor of the Easter Bunny or other non-Christian aspects of\nEaster as presently celebrated. (Incidentally, Easter eggs are not\nnon-Christian; they are a way of ending the Lenten fast.)\n\nMy point was to distinguish between\n (1) intentionally worshipping a pagan deity, and\n (2) doing something which may once have had pagan associations, but\nnowadays is not understood or intended as such.\n\nMany people who are doing (2) are being accused of (1).\n\nIt would be illogical to claim that one is \"really\" worshipping a\npagan deity without knowing it. Worship is a matter of intention.\nOne cannot worship without knowing that one is doing so.", "\nMy reference is a 4 page essay in our local Star Tribute newspaper\nputting the whole conflict in perspective. I will readily admit\nthat I am no authority in this area; however, other posteers \nasserted that *some* Muslims did join hands with Croats and\nNazis in persecuting Serbs. In any case, past actions do not\nin any way validate or legitimize what is happending there now.\n\nI sincerely do apologize to the extent the author of the essay\nwas wrong in making the assertion he made. \n\nMaybe, some student of history may put this in perspective.\n\nSatya Prabhakar\n", "I am trying to configure Zsoft's PC Paintbrush IV+ for use with my\nLogitech Scanman 32 (hand scanner), but I can't get Paintbrush to\nacknowledge the scanner. Is there anybody out there using Paintbrush\nwith a scanner, if so, can you help me out?\n Thanks Luis Nobrega\n ", "\nIt appears it is time that this article (originally posted by Larry\nCipriani last year, and which I saved) gets posted again. It offers\nas good an analysis of the meaning of the Second Amendment, especially\nregarding the militia clause, as I have seen. I have not seen any\nrebuttles with similar bone fides...\n\nEnjoy. (Flames to /dev/null)\n\n--------- Begin Enclosed Article -----------\n\n\t\t\tTHE UNABRIDGED SECOND AMENDMENT\n\n\t\t\t by J. Neil Schulman\n\nIf you wanted to know all about the Big Bang, you'd ring up Carl Sagan,\nright ? And if you wanted to know about desert warfare, the man to call\nwould be Norman Schwarzkopf, no question about it. But who would you call\nif you wanted the top expert on American usage, to tell you the meaning\nof the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution ?\n\nThat was the question I asked A.C. Brocki, editorial coordinator of the Los\nAngeles Unified School District and formerly senior editor at Houghton\nMifflin Publishers -- who himself had been recommended to me as the\nforemost expert on English usage in the Los Angeles school system. Mr.\nBrocki told me to get in touch with Roy Copperud, a retired professor\njournalism at the University of Southern California and the author of\n\"American Usage and Style: The Consensus.\"\n\nA little research lent support to Brocki's opinion of Professor Copperud's\nexpertise.\n\nRoy Copperud was a newspaper writer on major dailies for over three decades\nbefore embarking on a a distinguished 17-year career teaching journalism at\nUSC. Since 1952, Copperud has been writing a column dealing with the\nprofessional aspects of journalism for \"Editor and Publisher\", a weekly\nmagazine focusing on the journalism field.\n\nHe's on the usage panel of the American Heritage Dictionary, and Merriam\nWebster's Usage Dictionary frequently cites him as an expert. Copperud's\nfifth book on usage, \"American Usage and Style: The Consensus,\" has been in\ncontinuous print from Van Nostrand Reinhold since 1981, and is the winner\nof the Association of American Publisher's Humanities Award.\n\nThat sounds like an expert to me.\n\nAfter a brief telephone call to Professor Copperud in which I introduced\nmyself but did not give him any indication of why I was interested, I sent\nthe following letter:\n\n\"I am writing you to ask you for your professional opinion as an expert in\nEnglish usage, to analyze the text of the Second Amendment to the United\nStates Constitution, and extract the intent from the text.\n\n\"The text of the Second Amendment is, 'A well-regulated Militia, being\nnecessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep\nand bear Arms, shall not be infringed.'\n\n\"The debate over this amendment has been whether the first part of the\nsentence, 'A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a\nfree State', is a restrictive clause or a subordinate clause, with respect\nto the independent clause containing the subject of the sentence, 'the\nright of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.'\n\n\"I would request that your analysis of this sentence not take into\nconsideration issues of political impact or public policy, but be restricted\nentirely to a linguistic analysis of its meaning and intent. Further,\nsince your professional analysis will likely become part of litigation\nregarding the consequences of the Second Amendment, I ask that whatever\nanalysis you make be a professional opinion that you would be willing to\nstand behind with your reputation, and even be willing to testify under\noath to support, if necessary.\"\n\nMy letter framed several questions about the test of the Second Amendment,\nthen concluded:\n\n\"I realize that I am asking you to take on a major responsibility and task\nwith this letter. I am doing so because, as a citizen, I believe it is\nvitally important to extract the actual meaning of the Second Amendment.\nWhile I ask that your analysis not be affected by the political importance of\nits results, I ask that you do this because of that importance.\"\n\nAfter several more letters and phone calls, in which we discussed terms for\nhis doing such an analysis, but in which we never discussed either of our\nopinions regarding the Second Amendment, gun control, or any other political\nsubject, Professor Copperud sent me the follow analysis (into which I have\ninserted my questions for the sake of clarity):\n\n[Copperud:] \"The words 'A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the\nsecurity of a free state,' contrary to the interpretation cited in your\nletter of July 26, 1991, constitutes a present participle, rather than a\nclause. It is used as an adjective, modifying 'militia,' which is\nfollowed by the main clause of the sentence (subject 'the right', verb\n'shall'). The to keep and bear arms is asserted as an essential for\nmaintaining a militia.\n\n\"In reply to your numbered questions:\n\n[Schulman:] \"(1) Can the sentence be interpreted to grant the right to keep\nand bear arms solely to 'a well-regulated militia'?\"\n\n[Copperud:] \"(1) The sentence does not restrict the right to keep and bear\narms, nor does it state or imply possession of the right elsewhere or by\nothers than the people; it simply makes a positive statement with respect\nto a right of the people.\"\n\n[Schulman:] \"(2) Is 'the right of the people to keep and bear arms' granted\nby the words of the Second Amendment, or does the Second Amendment assume a\npreexisting right of the people to keep and bear arms, and merely state\nthat such right 'shall not be infringed'?\"\n\n[Copperud:] \"(2) The right is not granted by the amendment; its existence\nis assumed. The thrust of the sentence is that the right shall be\npreserved inviolate for the sake of ensuring a militia.\"\n\n[Schulman:] \"(3) Is the right of the people to keep and bear arms\nconditioned upon whether or not a well regulated militia, is, in fact\nnecessary to the security of a free State, and if that condition is not\nexisting, is the statement 'the right of the people to keep and bear Arms,\nshall not be infringed' null and void?\"\n\n[Copperud:] \"(3) No such condition is expressed or implied. The right to\nkeep and bear arms is not said by the amendment to depend on the existence\nof a militia. No condition is stated or implied as to the relation of the\nright to keep and bear arms and to the necessity of a well-regulated\nmilitia as a requisite to the security of a free state. The right to keep\nand bear arms is deemed unconditional by the entire sentence.\"\n\n[Schulman:] \"(4) Does the clause 'A well-regulated Militia, being necessary\nto the security of a free State,' grant a right to the government to place\nconditions on the 'right of the people to keep and bear arms,' or is such\nright deemed unconditional by the meaning of the entire sentence?\"\n\n[Copperud:] \"(4) The right is assumed to exist and to be unconditional, as\npreviously stated. It is invoked here specifically for the sake of the\nmilitia.\"\n\n[Schulman:] \"(5) Which of the following does the phrase 'well-regulated\nmilitia' mean: 'well-equipped', 'well-organized,' 'well-drilled,'\n'well-educated,' or 'subject to regulations of a superior authority'?\"\n\n[Copperud:] \"(5) The phrase means 'subject to regulations of a superior\nauthority;' this accords with the desire of the writers for civilian\ncontrol over the military.\"\n\n[Schulman:] \"(6) (If at all possible, I would ask you to take account the\nchanged meanings of words, or usage, since that sentence was written 200\nyears ago, but not take into account historical interpretations of the\nintents of the authors, unless those issues can be clearly separated.\"\n\n[Copperud:] \"To the best of my knowledge, there has been no change in the\nmeaning of words or in usage that would affect the meaning of the\namendment. If it were written today, it might be put: \"Since a\nwell-regulated militia is necessary tot he security of a free state, the\nright of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged.'\n\n[Schulman:] \"As a 'scientific control' on this analysis, I would also\nappreciate it if you could compare your analysis of the text of the Second\nAmendment to the following sentence,\n\n\"A well-schooled electorate, being necessary to the security of a free\nState, the right of the people to keep and read Books, shall not be\ninfringed.'\n\n\"My questions for the usage analysis of this sentence would be,\n\n\"(1) Is the grammatical structure and usage of this sentence and the way\nthe words modify each other, identical to the Second Amendment's sentence?;\nand\n\n\"(2) Could this sentence be interpreted to restrict 'the right of the people\nto keep and read Books' _only_ to 'a well-educated electorate' -- for\nexample, registered voters with a high-school diploma?\"\n\n[Copperud:] \"(1) Your 'scientific control' sentence precisely parallels the\namendment in grammatical structure.\n\n\"(2) There is nothing in your sentence that either indicates or implies the\npossibility of a restricted interpretation.\"\n\nProfessor Copperud had only one additional comment, which he placed in his\ncover letter: \"With well-known human curiosity, I made some speculative\nefforts to decide how the material might be used, but was unable to reach\nany conclusion.\"\n\nSo now we have been told by one of the top experts on American usage what\nmany knew all along: the Constitution of the United States unconditionally\nprotects the people's right to keep and bear arms, forbidding all\ngovernments formed under the Constitution from abridging that right.\n\nAs I write this, the attempted coup against constitutional government in the\nSoviet Union has failed, apparently because the will of the people in that\npart of the world to be free from capricious tyranny is stronger than the\nold guard's desire to maintain a monopoly on dictatorial power.\n\nAnd here in the United States, elected lawmakers, judges, and appointed\nofficials who are pledged to defend the Constitution of the United States\nignore, marginalize, or prevaricate about the Second Amendment routinely.\nAmerican citizens are put in American prisons for carrying arms, owning\narms of forbidden sorts, or failing to satisfy bureaucratic requirements\nregarding the owning and carrying of firearms -- all of which is an\nabridgement of the unconditional right of the people to keep and bear arms,\nguaranteed by the Constitution.\n\nAnd even the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), staunch defender of the\nrest of the Bill of Rights, stands by and does nothing.\n\nit seems it is up to those who believe in the right to keep and bear arms to\npreserve that right. no one else will. No one else can. Will we beg our\nelected representatives not to take away our rights, and continue regarding\nthem as representing us if they do? Will we continue obeying judges who\ndecide that the Second Amendment doesn't mean what it says it means but\nmeans whatever they say it means in their Orwellian doublespeak ?\n\nOr will be simply keep and bear the arms of our choice, as the Constitution\nof the United States promises us we can, and pledge that we will defend\nthat promise with our lives, our fortuned, and our sacred honor ?\n\n(C) 1991 by The New Gun Week and Second Amendment Foundation.\nInformational reproduction of the entire article is hereby authorized\nprovided the author, The New Gun Week and Second Amendment Foundation are\ncredited. All other rights reserved.\n\n\t\t\tAbout the Author\n\nJ. Neil Schulman is the award-winning author of novels endorsed by Anthony\nBurgess and Nobel-economist Milton Friedman, and writer of the CBS \"Twilight\nZone\" episode in which a time-traveling historian prevents the JFK\nassassination. He's also the founder and president of SoftServ Publishing,\nthe first publishing company to distribute \"paperless books\" via personal\ncomputers and modems.\n\nMost recently, Schulman has founded the Committee to Enforce the Second\nAmendment (CESA), through which he intends to see the individual's right to\nkeep and bear arms recognized as a constitutional protection equal to those\nafforded in the First, Fourth, Fifth, Ninth and Fourteenth amendments.\n\nJ. Neil Schulman may be reached through: The SoftServ Paperless Bookstore,\n24-hour bbs: 213-827-3160 (up to 9600 baud). Mail address: PO Box 94, Long\nBeach, CA 90801-0094. GEnie address: SOFTSERV\n\n--------- End Enclosed Article -------------", "\n1st Tech Corp.\n12202 Technology Blvd., Suite 130\nPO Box 200656\nAustin TX 78720-0656\n800 533 1744\n512 258 3570\nFax 512 258 3689\n", "..stuff deleted...\n...more stuff deleted...\n\nHmm, USENET got it's collective hooks into me around 1987 or so right after I\nswitched to engineering. I'd say I started reading alt.atheism around 1988-89.\nI've probably not posted more than 50 messages in the time since then though.\nI'll never understand how people can find the time to write so much. I\ncan barely keep up as it is.\n", "Government-Mandated Energy Conservation is Unnecessary and Wastful, Study Finds\n\n Washington, DC -- The energy tax and subsidized energy-efficiency\n measures supported by President Clinton and Energy Secretary Hazel\n O'Leary are based on faulty assumptions, a new study from the Cato\n Institute points out.\n\n According to Jerry Taylor, Cato's director of natural resource studies,\n we are not running out of sources of energy. The world now has almost 10\n times the proven oil reserves it had in 1950 and twice the reserves of\n 1970. Proven reserves of coal and natural gas have increased just as\n dramatically.\n\n When standards of living, population densities, and industrial\n structures are controlled for, the United States is no less energy\n efficient than Japan and more energy efficient than many of the Group\n of Seven nations.\n\n Energy independence provides little protection against domestic oil\n price shocks because the energy economy is global. Moreover, since the\n cost of oil represents only about 2 percent of gross national product,\n even large increases in the price of oil would have little impact on the\n overall U.S. economy.\n\n Market economies are, on average, 2.75 times more energy efficient per\n $1,000 of GNP than are centrally planned economies.\n\n Utilities' subsidized energy-efficiency measurs, known as demand-side\n management programs, encourage free riders, overuse of competing resource\n inputs, an competitive inequities. Furthermore, DSM programs do not\n reduce demand.\n\n Taylor concludes that government-mandated energy conservation imposes\n unnecessary costs on consumers and wastes, not conserves, energy; that\n subsidizing energy-conservation technologies will stymie, not advance,\n gains in energy conservation; and that central control over the lifeblood\n of modern society--energy--would transfer tremendous power to the state\n at the expense of the individual.\n\n \"Energy Conservation and Efficiency: The Case Against Coercion\" is no.\n 189 in the Policy Analysis series published by the Cato Institute, an\n independent public policy research organization in Washington, DC.\n\n\n\nAvailable from:\n Cato Institute\n 224 Second Street SE\n Washington, DC 20003\n\n\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n\n\n\n The Cato Institute\n\n Founded in 1977, the Cato Institute is a public policy research\n foundation dedicated to broadening the parameters of policy debate\n to allow consideration of more options that are consistent with the\n traditional American principles of limited government, individual\n liberty, and peace. To that end, the Institute strives to achieve\n greater involvement of the intelligent, concerned lay public in \n questions of policy and the proper role of government.\n The Institute is named for Cato's Letters, libertarian pamphlets\n that were widely read in the American Colonies in the early 18th\n century and played a major role in laying the philosophical foundation\n of the American Revolution.\n Despite the achievement of the nation's Founders, today virtually\n no aspect of life is free from government encroachment. A pervasive\n intolerance for individual rights is shown by government's arbitrary\n intrusions into private economic transactions and its disregard for\n civil liberties.\n To counter that trend the Cato Institute undertakes an extensive\n publications program that addresses the complete spectrum of policy\n issues. Books, monographs, and shorter studies are commissioned\n to examine the federal budget, Social Security, regulation, military\n spending, international trade, and myriad other issues. Major policy\n conferences are held throughout the year, from which papers are\n published thrice yearly in the Cato Journal.\n In order to maintain its independence, the Cato Institute accepts\n no government funding. Contributions are received from foundations,\n corporations, and individuals, and other revenue is generated from\n the sale of publications. The Institute is a nonprofit, tax-exempt,\n educational foundation under Section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue\n Code.", "\n\nYeah. We don't want to spend too much money preserving lives, after\nall. Escpecially when they're all just a bunch of crazy fanatic\ncultists anyway, instead of normal people.\n\n[The above is supposed to be dripping with sarcasm, but I'm too burned\nout right now (get it? \"burned out\" ha ha!) to tell if it's working.\nLook, folks, what David Koresh and his followers were was _broken_. It\ntakes a certain amount of flexibility and insanity to survive in this\nworld and they didn't have enough of it and that wasn't their fault. So\nplease stop dancing on their graves, okay?]", "\nEvery city and suburban police officer I've seen around the Twin Cities in the\nlast two years has carried a semi-auto of some type (different brands though\nI haven't seen any Glock's). \n\nWith regard to this discussion: We are getting dangerously far from the usual\nrantings of t.p.g, and close to the realm of r.g, but I'd like to put my two\ncents worth in. While there's nothing wrong with a revolver (especially a \nlarge frame S&W in .357 magnum - my favorite) there are valid advantages to\nsemi-autos. I suggest reading Massad Ayoob's (I know, some people can't stand\nhim and think he's full of bull, but I think that in general his material is\nvery valid and useful) book _The Semi Auto Pistol in Police Work_ (or something \nlike that). He defines a number of ways that semi-auto's are different, and that\n\"different is good\". The main advantage is not in increased firepower, but in \nmore accurate followup shots when you go to single action mode. There is also a\ncertain \"propriatory nature\" of each gun that takes some familiarity to \nlearn. This may have diminished with time as more criminals become familiar\nwith different models of semi-autos, but it was cited as stopping or at least\nslowing down criminals who had grabbed a police officers gun.\n\n\nYes, but this is best done with a two hand hold. With a single hand you either\npull the gun far off target to cock, or must fire double action. The DA semi\nauto has the same advantages plus is always SA after the first shot.\n\n\n\nI'm not sure if this is meant to be different from your first point. In a DA\nsemi-auto you can pull the trigger again to try dropping the hammer on the same\nround - an advantage you don't have in a revolver where the next trigger pull will\nalways go to the next round (discussing this point now). This is fine with a dud\nbut what about a hangfire situation? Granted it's very rare, but your round will\nnow go off confined in the cylinder with no place to go. Slingshotting the slide\non a misfire takes very little time.\n\n\n\nActually with modern revolver designs incorporating hammer blocks this is not\nnecessary or usually recommended. A revolver would have to fall hard enough and\nat the right angle to actually break the hammer and driver the firing pin into the\nround to set it off.\n\n\nThe best speedloader users, especially those using the spring loaded speed\nloaders are very fast. A problem is that ejecting the spent cases is a two\nhanded job where dropping the expended magazine is one handed. This means that\nwhile you can be inserting a fresh magazine as soon as the old one clears the\ngun, with a speed loader you have to go through more motions that will always \ntake more time. You also don't have the advantage of tactical reloads (replacing\na partial magazine to bring you back to full capacity - the partial magazine can\nstill be used if needed later). \n\n\nYes, the time to recognize the problem is just as important as the time to clear\nit. Really though, in either a revolver or semi-auto the odds of an actual misfire\nwith factory ammo are awfully small. You are more likely to get a jam in a semi-auto\nbut even these are exceptionally rare with modern quality guns (Sigs, Glocks, et.al.).\n\n\n\n\nAll common semi-auto's can be carried with a round in their chamber without any\nsafety problems. While I put that out as a statement that I believe, I should\nsay that this applies to all of the ones I've looked at. For the DA semi's it's\nno different from the revolver situation: The guns all have hammer or firing\npin blocks. They also have a safety. Because there's no real advantage\ncarrying one of these cocked and locked you have the same safety and speed\nof employment as a revolver, plus the advantage of SA followup shots. I'm\nnot familiar with SA semi-autos except for the 1911-A1. I admit that I was\ninitially skeptical about carrying this cocked and locked, but after examining\nthe design, trying to defeat the safeties (gun unloaded of course), and \nshooting it a lot, I see no inherent safety problems with it, especially in\na thumbreak holster with the strap under the hammer. This design also gets\nyou more speed for an accurate first shot than a revolver.\n\n\nYeah, the infamous Glock. I still can't figure out how it's worse than a revolver\nfor safety. If you don't pull the trigger it doesn't go off. I imagine that if all\nyour revolver shooting was done double action then you could pull the Glock trigger\nfar enough to fire before you realized it. In addition, if you had developed that\nnasty habit of keeping your finger on the trigger when holstering your gun and\nrelying on your thumb on the hammer to remind you to take it off before you blew\noff your foot then you'd have problems when the hammer wasn't there.\n\n\nI think this is even okay for a riot (as long as it's a small one B^)).\n\n\nI have the poor man's Beretta (Taurus 99) and consider it inferior as a carry\nweapon to the Springfield .45 (oops, 9mm vs. 45 arguments are relegated to\nr.g). You are right, though. If you don't hit what you aim at then the\nshooter/gun combination has failed. I don't ascribe failures in the the\nfire real fast with a wonder-nine scenario you mention to the gun. This is\na shooter failure, whether through lack of discipline or lack of training.\n\n\n\n9mm's are becoming more popular with crooks too, though the .38 does still\nlead the list. And like I said, around here semi-auto's seem the rule for the\nstreet cop. Don't know about the State Patrol however, they may still carry\nthe \"Highway Patrolman\".\n\n\nVincent, please don't take any of this as a flame. Just my $0.02 (whoops, looks more\nlike $2.00) worth. And much of it is IMHO, but do check Ayoob's book.", "\n------------ Part 3 of 14 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========================================================================\nA couple of points on this thread.\n\n1. We have been using our processes since way before Challenger. Challenger\n in and of it self did not uncover flaws.\n\n2. What Mr. Spencer says is by and large true. We have a process that is\n not dependent on \"sophisticated tools\" (CASE tools?). However, tools\n cannot fix a bad process. Also, tool support for HAL/S (the Shuttle\n Language) is somewhat limited.\n\n3. The Onboard Flight Software project was rated \"Level 5\" by a NASA team.\n This group generates 20-40 KSLOCs of verified code per year for NASA.\n\n4. Feel free to call me if you or your organization is interested in more info\n on our software development process.\n\nBret Wingert\n\n\n(713)-282-7534\nFAX: (713)-282-8077\n\n\nBret Wingert\n", "\n .\n It's my understanding that the U.S. Supreme Court has never \n given a legal definition of religion. This despite the many \n cases involving religion that have come before the Court. \n Can anyone verify or falsify this? \n Has any state or other government tried to give a legal \n definition of religion? \n", "\nThere are a few bills not yet in the archive, but these are the main ones\nwe need to fight. And thanks to David Robinson for scanning so many of\nthem in for us!\n\nThe subdirectory bills are stored in was moved from \"congress\" to\n\"Congress\", that is:\n\ngodiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu:/usr0/anon/pub/firearms/politics/rkba/Congress", "930420\n\nDo what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.\nThe word of Sin is Restriction.\n\n\n\nSorry, the San Jose based Rosicrucian order is called A.M.O.R.C, \nI don't remember for the time being what the A.M. stand for\nbut O.R.C is Ordo Rosae Crucis, in other words latin for\nOrder of the Rose Cross. \n\n\nResponse:\n\nYes, very true. The entire title is 'The Ancient and Mystical Order\n Rosae Crucis'. They are located at 1342 Naglee Avenue, San Jose,\nCalifornia, 95191-0001, USA.\n\nThey are considered different and largely unrelated by a number of\nsources. I've seen documentation which links them through the figure\nof H. Spencer Lewis. Lewis was apparently involved with Reuss, who\nwas the O.H.O. of Ordo Templi Orientis for many years. Apparently it\nis also true that Lewis had a charter to form an O.T.O. body and then\ncreated A.M.O.R.C. (as a subsidiary? an interesting question).\n\n\nKent:\n\nOtherwise their headquarters in San Jose has a pretty decent\nmetaphysical bookstore, if any of you are interested in such books.\nAnd my son loves to run around in their Egyptian museum.\n\n\nResponse:\n\nIndeed, and diagonally across the street is another metaphysical\nbook store called 'Ram Metaphysical', wherein I've purchased some\nwonderful works by Crowley and others. Ram Metaphysical Books,\n1749 Park Ave., San Jose, CA. (408) 294-2651.\n\n\nInvoke me under my stars. Love is the law, love under will.\n\nI am I!", "[The following is my comment on an article by Desiree Bradley. --clh]\n\n\nKoresh did originally claim to be the Christ, but then backed off and\nsaid he was a prophet. The latest news at 8:00 CDT from Waco is that\nthe feds broke through a wall of the compound with a tank. No news\nbesides that at this time.", "1. Withdraw\n2. leave the people in the compund to lead their lives as they choose.\n3. prosecute the BAFT agents for murder\n\n-- ", "[sorry for the 0 auto content, but ... ]\n", "\nThis isn't anything new. Back in 1985 I was driving under a high\noverpass at night on I-805 in San Diego when I caught a glimpse of\nsomeone on the overpass. As I passed under a rock slammed against the\nmetal between the winshield and right front window. My girlfriend was\nin the seat next to it. I called the police from the next exit, but I\ndoubt if they were found.\n\nAbout five years ago in San Diego someone was put into a coma from a\nbrick being thrown through his sunroof as he was driving and\nsubsequently crashed. I don't think he ever came out of the coma, and I\nhaven't heard anything about it for a couple years.\n\n\nProbably because there are many children there. Also the minor fact\nthat other than defending themselves from 100 some people attacking them\nthey haven't threatened or attacked anyone outside the compound in\nyears. Being a promiscuous religious nut does not constitute grounds\nfor a mass murder of Koresh and his followers.\n\nSorry for posting this to this group, but I thought the previous post\nneeded a rebuttal. If you follow-up to this portion please cross-post\nand direct follow-ups to a more appropriate newsgroup.\n", "FMGs.\nparticularly\n\nFMGs who are not citizens are, like all aliens, in a difficult\nsituation. Only citizens get to vote here, so non-citizens are of\nlittle or no interest to legislators. Also, the non-citizen may well\nbe in the middle of processing for resident alien status. There is a\nstron sense that rocking the boat (eg. suing a residency program)\nwill delay the granting of that status, perhaps for ever.", "\n\nHere's my own top ten response to Mr. Ipser's list\n\n\n10. It's about time we have a President that might actually stand up to the\n military. Our men and women in uniform must learn that the world does not\n revolve around them, and that one of the things they're out there defending\n is our right to be critical of them, even denounce them.\n\n9. Let me explain something to you. Environmental policy and industrial\n policy MUST go hand in hand. Our nation, and indeed, our planet cannot\n afford to continue ignoring this as was done over the last twelve years.\n Our industrial/environmental position has been downright SHAMEFUL! We\n must have active government support of the key industries such as,\n telecommunications, microelectronics, medical, biotech, and environmental\n tech. Meanwhile weed out old, inneficient, high-polution, industries\n that are better left to other nations. This will make us richer, help\n produce new jobs, and help the environment. To give credit where credit\n is due, I heard a lot of this in a speech by Senator John Kerry (D-MA)\n tonite. In addition, it's time we get really, really serious about \n issues like overpopulation, globabl warming, and ozone depletion. The\n planet on which we live should be our utmost priority!\n\n8. It just so happens that that it takes money to make this country work,\n to provide the services that people need, and to help solve the problems\n that need to be solved. Granted, some things can probably be done more\n efficiently for less money, and should be. But some things are going to\n cost more money and I'm sick and tired of hearing everyone whining about\n taxes all the time. You want to live in my country, you pay your fair\n share!\n\n7. I can't believe what hypocrites people are when they ask people to give\n up their lives for their country and then complain about taxes. If you're\n willing to send me off to die for some stupid obsession with fighting an\n enemy which at best doesn't affect us and at worst really should be our\n friend, then you have no right to tell me you shouldn't pay taxes!\n\n6. Hey, I think the beaded curtains add a lovely 60's-esque touch!\n\n5. Look, Canada, Europe, and Japan manage to provide health care for their\n citizens (and, yes, basic health IS a human right which people are\n entitled to). If these nations aren't capitalist enough for you, then\n I guess we've found something better than capitalism! There is nothing\n sacred about the capitalist system, and if something, be it socialism\n or anything else, works better, then I say let capitalism die.\n\n4. Make love, not War!\n\n3. Contrary to popular belief, it is possible to be a male and a feminist\n at the same time. To discriminate against or to deny equal opportunity\n to a MAJORITY of the population is just plain wrong, and trying to force\n them into some sort of tradition role is even worse. Women certainly \n have as much to offer this world as men, and the day that gender\n discrimination is finally broken it going to make all the revolutions of\n the past few centuries seem like reform bills. I look forward to it.\n\n2. See number 10.\n\n1. HEY MAN, ACADAMIA RULES!!\n\n \n\n -Amar Chaudhary\n\n Peace, Land, at Matzoh! \n \"AC in DC in 2008!\"\n\nNone of the opinions here necessary reflect the opinions of Yale University or\nanyone or anything associated with it, except for me, of course :)", "\nI believe the reason is that the lung diaphram gets too tired to pump\nthe liquid in and out and simply stops breathing after 2-3 minutes.\nSo if your in the vehicle ready to go they better not put you on \nhold, or else!! That's about it. Remember a liquid is several more times\nas dense as a gas by its very nature. ~10 I think, depending on the gas\nand liquid comparision of course!", "I've borrowed the 1992-93 version of this book from a friend...holy\nmoley! What a wealth of contacts. Five-hundred pages of information\nabout electronic artists and organizations around the globe (many have\nemail addresses). An up to the minute database of this information is\nalso available on Minitel (the book's based in France...are there any\nInternet=>Minitel gates?). The book is printed in French and English.\n \nTo have you or your organization listed in IDEA, just send your\ninformation to:\n \nAnnick Bureaud\nIDEA\n57, rue Falguiere\n75015 Paris\nFrance\n \nIt's free to be listed in it, I'm not sure how widely distributed the\nbook is or how much it costs. I'm not affiliated with them in any way,\nI was just impressed by their collection of organizations and artists.\nI highly encourage all involved in electronic media (video, music,\ngraphics, animation, etc.) to send in your entry and encourage them to\nmake their database available on Internet.\n \n...e\n", "\nAs I understand, that number is deceptive. The reason is that the money\ncost was in non-oil sales for the most part. Iraq still is not allowed\nto sell oil, or do many of the things under the initial sanctions, but\nis still surviving.\n\n\nOf the ~93% (I have heard figures closer to 80%, but I won't quibble your\nfigures), most was dropped in carpet bombing of regions only occupied by\nenemy troops. A B-52 drops a lot of bombs in one sortie, and we used them\naround the clock. Not to mention other smaller aircraft using dumb\nmunitions. \n\n2. The Patriot uses a proximity fuse. The adjusted figures for number\nof Patriot kills of SS-1 derivitives is ~60-70%. That figure came\nnot from some fluke in the Pentagon, but a someone working with such\nstuff in another part of DoD.\n\n3. The statement precision bombing was the norm, is true around areas\nwhere civilians were close to the target. We dropped by tonnage very\nlittle bombs in populated regions, explaining the figures. \n\n\nThis figure, is far below all the other figures I have seen. If it\nis indeed accurate, then how do you explain the discrepancy between\nthat figure, and other figures from international organizations?\nMost figures I have seen place the hit ratio close to 70%, which is \nstill far higher than your 35%. Or does your figure say a bomb\nmissed if the plane took off with it, and the bomb never hit the target,\nregardless of whether or not the bomb was dropped? Such methods\nare used all the time to lie with statistics.\n\n\nI have _never_ seen any source that was claiming such a figure. Please\npost the source so its reliability can be judged. \n\n\n", "\n This post has all the earmarks of a form program, where the user types in\n a nationality or ethnicity and it fills it in in certain places in the story. \n If this is true, I condemn it. If it's a fabrication, then the posters have\n horrible morals and should be despised by everyone on tpm who values truth.\n\n Jesse\n\nAgreed.", "This was in Wed. WSJ.\n\n[start]\nThe white house, seeking to mount public pressure on GOP senators, bombarded\nnews outlets in some senator's home states with news releases warning that\ncertain projects may not be funded if the $16billion stimulus bill isn't\npassed.\n\nNone of the projects mentioned are actually in the bill, rather they are\npart of a wish list that may be funded from the $2.56 billion in\nCommunity Development Block Grants.\n\n...\n\n[end]\n\nI could have sworn I heard a bunch of Clintonites going on and on, raving\nabout how dishonest it was that the Rebublicans were taking items from this\nwish list in order to ridicule this bill. Now that Clinton is using that\nsame list in order to garner support for the bill, are you guys going to\ndo the honarable thing and say that Clinton is being dishonest.", "\n\n\tPlease define \"morally straight\". \n\n\t\n\t\n\tAnd, don't even try saying that \"straight\", as it is used here, \nimplies only hetersexual behavior. [ eg: \"straight\" as in the slang word \nopposite to \"gay\" ]\n\n\n\tThis is alot like \"family values\". Everyone is talking about them, \nbut misteriously, no one knows what they are.\n---\n\n \"One thing that relates is among Navy men that get tatoos that \n say \"Mom\", because of the love of their mom. It makes for more \n virile men.\"\n\n Bobby Mozumder ( snm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu )\n April 4, 1993", " How about Kirlian imaging ? I believe the FAQ for sci.skeptics (sp?)\n has a nice write-up on this. They would certainly be most supportive\n on helping you to build such a device and connect to a 120Kvolt\n supply so that you can take a serious look at your \"aura\"... :-)", "\nSome people pay shares that are more \"fair\" than others, and will continue\nto do so, even with the presence of President Clinton. Until the rich \nelite *hurt* from taxes and shower me with their blood dripping from the\nwound of the tax dagger, I will scream and yell. Because, taxes are \nkilling the poor and middle-class, and I'm tired of the wealthy getting\na free ride in this country. Sure, they pay a lot of taxes, but I want\nthem to SHARE MY PAIN!!\n\nAnd, not even Slick Willy is *that* fair, is he, seeing that he and his\nwife qualify as one of those wealthy people I was talking about? [They're\non the lower end of \"wealthy\", but \"wealthy\" they are.]\n\n\nYah, I think the draft for Vietnam was a sack of shit. But, do we get\nto pick and choose which laws we obey, Mr. Chaudhary? If so, shall we\nset up a \"you follow the laws you like, and I'll follow the laws I \nlike\" arrangement?\n\n\nI never thought much of beaded curtains.\n \nNow beaded seat-covers, on the other hand....\n\n\nI didn't think I was going to respond to this, but I changed my mind.\n\nTell me, why do you think health care is a human right? \n\nThis isn't a flame or anything, I just wonder. Next thing you know, \nfree public transportation will be a human right. Maybe membership\nat prestigious health spas?\n\n[Sorry to grease the hill on ya there....]\n\n\nBe sure and wrap that wanker when you go spreadin' that free love stuff\naround. (Or, after the FDA gets its thumb out of its ass, use that neat\nnew \"Reality\" femi-condom.)\n\n\nSo do I. Amen. And all that.\n\n\nWhat the hell is an \"acadamia\" anyway? Is that like a macadamia? \n\ncpk\n-- \nIt's been 80 days. Do you know where your wallet is?", "taken.\n\nHum, I guess this has some significance as opposed to having an incredible\ndrop during the last days in office. Unfortuantely having a loss in the\npolls during the last days of office usually means no re-election. Ask\nGeorge.\n\n\nGood one, Roooster. Thats hard to top.", " This one is easy, they 'tape' the conversation, call the FBI or\nSecret Service. You see \"activities against the Satan Clinton\" could be\nconstrued as a threat against the President of the United States. I am\nsure they(NSA,FBI,SS,...,...) have enough judges in their collective\npockets to have a warrent before the call is over..... ", "Subject: Re: Eugenics\n/\n;Probably within 50 years, a new type of eugenics will be possible. \n;Maybe even sooner. We are now mapping the human genome. We will \n;then start to work on manipulation of that genome. Using genetic\n;engineering, we will be able to insert whatever genes we want.\n;No breeding, no \"hybrids\", etc. The ethical question is, should\n;we?\n \nTwo past problems with eugenics have been \n1) reducing the gene pool and \n2) defining the status of the eugenized.\n \nInserting genes would not seem to reduce the gene pool unless the inserted\ngenes later became transmissible to progeny. Then they may be able to\ncrowd out \"garbage genes.\" This may in the future become possible. Even if\nit does, awareness of the need to maintain the gene pool would hopefully\nmean provisions will be made for saving genes that may come in handy\nlater. Evidently the genes for sickle cell disease in equatorial Africa\nand for diabetes in the Hopi *promoted* survival in some conditions. We\ndon't really know what the future may hold for our environment. The\nreduced wilderness- and disease-survival capacity of our relatively inbred\ndomesticated animals comes to mind. Vulcanism, nuclear winter, ice age,\nmeteor impact, new microbiological threats, famine, global warming, etc.,\netc., are all conceivable. Therefore, having as many genes as possible\navailable is a good strategy for species survival. \n \nOf course, the status of genetically altered individuals would start out\nas no different than anyone else's. But if we could make\n\"philosopher-kings\" with great bodies and long lives, would we (or they)\nwant to give them elevated status? We could. The Romans did it with their\nkings *without* the benefits of such eugenics. The race eventually\nrealized and dealt with the problems which that caused, but for a while,\nit was a problem. Orwell introduced us to the notion of what might happen\nto persons genetically altered for more menial tasks. But there is nothing\nnew under the sun. We treated slaves the same way for millennia before\n\"1984.\" \n \nI see no inherent problem with gene therapy which avoids at least these 2\nproblems. Humans have always had trouble having the virtue and wisdom to\nuse any power that falls into their hands to good ends all the time. That\nhasn't stopped the race as a whole yet. Many are the civilizations which\nhave died from inability to adapt to environmental change. However, also\nmany are the civilizations which have died from the abuse of their own\npower. The ones which survived have hopefully learned a lesson from the\nfates of others, and have survived by making better choices when their\nturns came.\n \nNot that I don't think that this gene altering power couldn't wipe us off\nthe face of the earth or cause endless suffering. Nuclear power or global\nwarming or whatever could and may still do that, too. \n \nThe real issue is an issue of wisdom and virtue. I personally don't think\nman has enough wisdom and virtue to pull this next challenge off any\nbetter than he did the for last few. We, as eugenists, may make it, an we\nmay not. If we don't, I hope there are reservoirs of \"garbage\" people out\nin some backwater with otherwise long discarded \"garbage\" genes which will\npull us through. \n \nI believe that the real problem is and will probably always be the same.\nMan needs to accept input from the great spirit of God to overcome his\nlacks in the area of knowing how to use the power he has. Some men have,\nand I believe all men may, listen to and obey the still small voice of God\nin their hearts. This is the way to begin to recieve the wisdom and virtue\nneeded to escape the problems consequent to poor choices. Peoples have\ndied out for many reasons. The societies which failed to accept enough\ninput from God to safely use the power they had developed have destroyed\nthemselves, and often others in the process. It is self-evident that the\nones which survive today have either accepted enough input from the Spirit\nto use their powers wisely enough to avoid or survive their own mistakes\nthus far, or else haven't had enough power for long enough. \n \nIn summary, I would say that the question of whether to use this new\ntechnology is really an ancient one. And the answer, in some ways hard, in\nsome ways easy, is the same ancient answer. It isn't the power, it is the\nSpirit.\n \nSorry for the long post. Got carried away.", "/ iftccu:talk.politics.guns / vincent@cad.gatech.edu (Vincent Fox) / 10:34 am Apr 14, 1993 /\n\nThis isn't rec.guns, so maybe this is getting a bet technical, but I\ncan't resist....\n\n\nSometimes..... Depends on WHY it misfired....\n\n\nI can't imagine doing much combat type shooting single action.....\n\n\nAssuming the cylinder WILL rotate....\n\n\nNever hurts to err on the side of safety, but if you've got one of those\n'new fangled' hammer blocks or transfer bar safeties, it's unnecessarily\nredundant. I'd rather have the extra round.\n\n\nQuite true. Speed loaders are a little less convenient to pack around\nthan magazines though.\n\n\nTrue, but this is a training function.\n\n\nCocked and locked for single actions or hammer down on double actions\nare the only carry modes that make sense... The 80 series Colt's for\nexample are quite safe to carry this way.\n\n\nAgreed.\n\nNow that I've shot off my mouth a bit, let me back some of this up. It\nis true that a simple misfire on a revolver doesn't cost you much. On\nthe other hand, I've had all sorts of interesting things happen over the\nyears. For example, I've had FACTORY ammunition that has had high\nprimers. A high primer will tie your revolver up somewhere from seconds\nto minutes while you try to pound the action open to clear the problem.\nAn auto? Jack the slide and continue.\n\nI've had bullets come out of the case, keeping the cylinder from\nturning, see clearing paragraph above. About the WORST that can happen\nwith a semi auto is a double feed. This can be cleared in seconds.\n\nMost revolvers are more 'fragile' then semi auto's. There are all sorts\nof close tolerance parts and fitting involved. Dropping the gun, or a\nblow to the gun or all sorts of things can take it out of action. Many\nof the problems that can be cured on the spot with a (quality) semi auto\ntake a gun smith for a revolver. In short a revolver MAY be less likely\nto malfunction, but as a rule when it does, you're out of the fight.\nThe majority of malfunctions that occur with semi autos does not fall\ninto that category.\n\nVincint makes many good points in this post, but leaves off the opposing\nview of most of them. A real good starting place is Ayoob's \"The Semi\nAuto Pistol for Police and Self Defense.\"\n\nIn general, I'd agree, the revolver is an excellent first gun and self\ndefense weapon for somebody that does not have the time, and inclination\nthat is necessary for the training and practice needed to use a semi\nauto effectively as a self defense arm.\n\nMost cops are notoriously indifferent to firearms. If the department\nisn't going to train them, they aren't going to take the time on their\nown. There is no doubt that training is an issue. The amount of\ntraining required for effective use of a semi auto is probably several\ntimes that of a revolver. Many cops don't bother.\n\nFor myself, I'd hate to be limited to one or the other. I'd rather pick\nwhat fits better with my personal inclination, what I'm wearing that day\nand so on. Like the Moderator on rec.guns says, buy em all!\n\nThat said, I have to admit that often my advice to people thinking of\nbuying their first defense arm is (right after taking a class) get a\nRuger or Smith revolver.... (Sorry Colt fans. Colt revolvers are ok\ntoo!)\n\nIf this post had gone the other way, I'd be arguing for revolvers. :-)", "[...]\n\nThe President is not competent to plan or judge the planning of such a\nraid, nor does he need to be. His job is to set basic policies and\nmanage the people under him. If Clinton instructed Reno to preserve\nlives, and if she confirmed that the plan for the raid was a safe as\ncould be, then he did his job. The President should not involve\nhimself in the minor details of these kinds of operations. This sort\nof micromanagement only leads to disaster, as was demonstrated so well\nin Vietnam.\n\nBut the raid went bad: Over 80 civilians have been killed in a\ncontrontation with U.S. authorities.\n\nNOW Clinton enters the picture in a big way. Will Clinton start an\ninvestigation? Or will he try to squash any attempt to investigate?\nIs he a responsible leader? Or is he only interested in protecting\nthe image of his administration?\n\nWe'll all find out as this unfolds.\n-- ", "This was posted to the firearms-politics mailing list.\n==============================================================\nHi Folks;\n\nWednesday marked day 2, the beginning of the trial. Opening\nstatements were given by both the prosecution and the defense,\neach side presenting its version of what happenned last August.\n\nThe prosecution argued that Weaver and his family moved to\nIdaho in 1983 anticipating a battle with the \"evil\" federal\ngovernment. The prosecution alleges that Weaver sold federal\nagents \"sawed off\" shotguns and later failed to appear for\ntrial: Despite repeated \"good faith\" efforts to get Weaver\nto surrender peacefully, Weaver refused. The shootout erupted\nwhen Weaver discovered agents on a surveillance mission and\nbegan firing. According to the prosecution, three people\nwere taking an \"offensive action\" against an FBI helicopter\nwhen an FBI sniper killed Vicki Weaver.\n\nThe defense argued that Weaver and his family moved to northern\nIdaho in 1983 to practice their religion in peace. They wanted\nsimply to be left alone. Weaver was induced by federal agents to\nsell the short-barrelled shotgun (and did not, as the prosecution\nalleged, want to become a \"regular supplier\"). The defense also\nargued that the federal government sought to arrest Weaver when\nhe wouldn't become an informant [it is not specified explicitly,\nbut I assume that this is a reference to the white separatist\nangle of the story. We'll know more as things develop]. The\nfailure to appear in court happenned because Weaver was given\nan incorrect court date and then indicted before that date.\nThe shootout occurred when federal agent Arthur Roderick killed\nWeaver's dog that was in proximity to Weaver's son, Samuel. Weaver\nthen fired in self-defense. In the ensuing battle, federal\nagent William Degan was killed (when his gun was later found,\nthere were 7 .223 cases nearby and the gun was on semi-automatic:\nHowever, agents were near the body for an extended period of\ntime and could have played with the select-fire - this will\nhave to be more fully explained). Finally, the defense claims\nthat Vicki Weaver was only going to \"look at the body\" [not recover?]\nof her son when she was cut-down by an FBI sniper.\n\nProsecution quote: \"Weaver wanted that confrontation, and he made\nthat confrontation.\" -- Asst. U.S. Attorney Kim Lindquist\n\nDefense quote: \"The evidence in this case is going to show that\nthis is a case where Randy Weaver and Kevin Harris are charged\nwith crimes they didn't commit in order to cover crimes that\nthe government did commit.\" -- Gerry Spence [nice soundbite!]\n\nNotes: The _Idaho Statesman_ claims that Weaver supporters\nheeded a call from Spence not to repeat yesterday's protests\noutside the courthouse. However, the local NBC affiliate\nagain had footage on the 10:00 news with 5 supporters including\n\"Tim\" again. \"Tim\" claimed he was a skinhead, who were \"ordinary,\nworking class people.\" He also claimed he was for \"white pride,\nnot white power.\"\n\nOutside the courthouse the television crew had an impromptu interview\nwith Bo Gritz, who charged that the neo-nazi protestors are exactly\nwhat the government wants to smear Randy Weaver.\n\nIn an affiliated article carried in the _Idaho Statesman_, about\na dozen lawyers were among the 70 or so people packed into the\ncourthouse. These lawyers were present to watch Gerry Spence\nin action, and to perhaps learn something from him. Some\ntidbits: Spence flatly told the jurors that he and his son Kent\nwere volunteering their time to represent Weaver because they\nbelieved in him. Spence, during his 90-minute opening statement,\nrepeatedly walked behind Weaver and placed his hands on the\ndefendants shoulders (Weaver broke down and cried during the\nrecounting of his wife's death), and Spence compared the \"sawed\noff\" shotgun to driving 56 mph when the limit was 55 (another\ngood one!).\n\nToday (Thursday, April 15th) the prosecution was scheduled to\nbegin presenting evidence.\n\nDrew\n=============================================================\n\n", "\n\n\nFeel free to patronize me all you like; I need the tips. :-)\nSeriously, if you were insulted, I apologize.\n\n\nPeople are sucking up to the government when they decide that ONLY the\nthings the government says are plausible. Especially if they refuse to\nconsider reasonable alternatives.\n\nHowever, from what I saw plastered all over the TV news last night, it's\nno longer necessary to be an \"independent thinker\" to depart from the\ngovernment's party line. It looks like our \"independent press\" may \nactually be starting to be earn its clothes allowance. This, to me, is\na good sign. I hope it continues.\n\n\nIndependent thinkers question authority. In a situation where only one\nset of facts are being presented, \"coming to a conclusion\" is not the \nhallmark of an independent thinker unless it's coupled with the ability\nto challenge those \"facts\" critically. The scientific method consists\nof more than choosing the popular hypothesis; it's even more than choosing\nbetween two hypotheses that other people have proposed.\n-- ", "\n\n\n\n\nPerhaps not in Christianity, but in Islam the choice of religious\nleaders is to be made by the people. So much for your superiority\nargument.\n\n\n\nDemocracy is a basic element of Islam. Learn that one!\n\nEver notice that the so-called \"fundamentalists\" in Algeria\nwho are being repressed by the secular government won in\nfree and democratic elections.\n", "\nSeems to me folks, that if you are so interested in acquiring CNN, just\nbuy your $1000 worth of stock today. It's being traded everyday. After you\nown your piece, we can work on the proxy votes later. It's probably even a\ngood investment.", "\n[...Dr. England's story deleted, it was a nice read the first time \nthrough...]]\n\n\n\tIt isn't so much a matter of 'interpretation' of Bible texts \nthat sets Mormonism apart from orthodoxy as it is a matter of \n*fabrication*.\n\n\tAbout 20 years ago, _National Lampoon_ had some comic strips \nin them that were drawn by Neal Adams. They were called \"Son o' God\" comics. \nIt was a parody of the Jesus in the Bible. In the comic, there were a \ngroup of thirteen Jewish kids from Brooklyn, and when one of them said \nthe magic word, he turned into \"Son o' God.\" He went from a myopic, \ncurly headed, yarmulke wearing boy to a replica of the stylizied \nportraits of Jesus --- with long flowing brown hair and gentile \nfeatures.\t\n\n\tNow, if someone were to profess faith in this NatLamp Jesus, \nand claim that they were a Christian because they believed in this \nNatLamp Jesus, we would have to say that this was fallacious since \nthis Jesus was a fabrication, and did not really exist.\n\n\tThis is the exact same thing that the LDS do when they claim \nthat they are Christian. They profess faith in Jesus, but the Jesus \nthat they profess to have faith in is as much a fabrication as the \nNatLamp Jesus was.\n", "Greetings!\n \n Situation: I have a phone jack mounted on a wall. I don't\n know the number of the line. And I don't want\n to call up the operator to place a trace on it.", "Mr. Freeman:\n\nPlease find something more constructive to do with your time rather\nthan engaging in fantasy..... Not that I have a particular affinty\nto Arafat or anything.\n\nJohn\n\n", "\n Rabin is the PM. Did he ever indicate such a wish? Try to implement it?\n\n\n\n\nI opt for the third.\n\n\nIsh", "Note: This file will also be available via anonymous file\ntransfer from csrc.ncsl.nist.gov in directory /pub/nistnews and\nvia the NIST Computer Security BBS at 301-948-5717.\n ---------------------------------------------------\n\n THE WHITE HOUSE\n\n Office of the Press Secretary\n\n_________________________________________________________________\n\nFor Immediate Release April 16, 1993\n\n\n STATEMENT BY THE PRESS SECRETARY\n\n\nThe President today announced a new initiative that will bring\nthe Federal Government together with industry in a voluntary\nprogram to improve the security and privacy of telephone\ncommunications while meeting the legitimate needs of law\nenforcement.\n\nThe initiative will involve the creation of new products to\naccelerate the development and use of advanced and secure\ntelecommunications networks and wireless communications links.\n\nFor too long there has been little or no dialogue between our\nprivate sector and the law enforcement community to resolve the\ntension between economic vitality and the real challenges of\nprotecting Americans. Rather than use technology to accommodate\nthe sometimes competing interests of economic growth, privacy and\nlaw enforcement, previous policies have pitted government against\nindustry and the rights of privacy against law enforcement.\n\nSophisticated encryption technology has been used for years to\nprotect electronic funds transfer. It is now being used to\nprotect electronic mail and computer files. While encryption\ntechnology can help Americans protect business secrets and the\nunauthorized release of personal information, it also can be used\nby terrorists, drug dealers, and other criminals.\n\nA state-of-the-art microcircuit called the \"Clipper Chip\" has\nbeen developed by government engineers. The chip represents a\nnew approach to encryption technology. It can be used in new,\nrelatively inexpensive encryption devices that can be attached to\nan ordinary telephone. It scrambles telephone communications\nusing an encryption algorithm that is more powerful than many in\ncommercial use today.\n\nThis new technology will help companies protect proprietary\ninformation, protect the privacy of personal phone conversations\nand prevent unauthorized release of data transmitted\nelectronically. At the same time this technology preserves the\nability of federal, state and local law enforcement agencies to\nintercept lawfully the phone conversations of criminals. \n\nA \"key-escrow\" system will be established to ensure that the\n\"Clipper Chip\" is used to protect the privacy of law-abiding\nAmericans. Each device containing the chip will have two unique\n\n\n 2\n\n\n\"keys,\" numbers that will be needed by authorized government\nagencies to decode messages encoded by the device. When the\ndevice is manufactured, the two keys will be deposited separately\nin two \"key-escrow\" data bases that will be established by the\nAttorney General. Access to these keys will be limited to\ngovernment officials with legal authorization to conduct a\nwiretap.\n\nThe \"Clipper Chip\" technology provides law enforcement with no\nnew authorities to access the content of the private\nconversations of Americans.\n\nTo demonstrate the effectiveness of this new technology, the\nAttorney General will soon purchase several thousand of the new\ndevices. In addition, respected experts from outside the\ngovernment will be offered access to the confidential details of\nthe algorithm to assess its capabilities and publicly report\ntheir findings.\n\nThe chip is an important step in addressing the problem of\nencryption's dual-edge sword: encryption helps to protect the\nprivacy of individuals and industry, but it also can shield\ncriminals and terrorists. We need the \"Clipper Chip\" and other\napproaches that can both provide law-abiding citizens with access\nto the encryption they need and prevent criminals from using it\nto hide their illegal activities. In order to assess technology\ntrends and explore new approaches (like the key-escrow system),\nthe President has directed government agencies to develop a\ncomprehensive policy on encryption that accommodates:\n\n -- the privacy of our citizens, including the need to\n employ voice or data encryption for business purposes;\n\n -- the ability of authorized officials to access telephone\n calls and data, under proper court or other legal\n order, when necessary to protect our citizens;\n\n -- the effective and timely use of the most modern\n technology to build the National Information\n Infrastructure needed to promote economic growth and\n the competitiveness of American industry in the global\n marketplace; and \n\n -- the need of U.S. companies to manufacture and export\n high technology products.\n\nThe President has directed early and frequent consultations with\naffected industries, the Congress and groups that advocate the\nprivacy rights of individuals as policy options are developed.\n\n\n\n 3\n\nThe Administration is committed to working with the private\nsector to spur the development of a National Information\nInfrastructure which will use new telecommunications and computer\ntechnologies to give Americans unprecedented access to\ninformation. This infrastructure of high-speed networks\n(\"information superhighways\") will transmit video, images, HDTV\nprogramming, and huge data files as easily as today's telephone\nsystem transmits voice.\n\nSince encryption technology will play an increasingly important\nrole in that infrastructure, the Federal Government must act\nquickly to develop consistent, comprehensive policies regarding\nits use. The Administration is committed to policies that\nprotect all Americans' right to privacy while also protecting\nthem from those who break the law.\n\nFurther information is provided in an accompanying fact sheet. \nThe provisions of the President's directive to acquire the new\nencryption technology are also available. \n\nFor additional details, call Mat Heyman, National Institute of\nStandards and Technology, (301) 975-2758.\n\n---------------------------------\n\n\nQUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ABOUT THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION'S\nTELECOMMUNICATIONS INITIATIVE\n\n\n\n\nQ: Does this approach expand the authority of government\n agencies to listen in on phone conversations?\n\nA: No. \"Clipper Chip\" technology provides law enforcement with\n no new authorities to access the content of the private\n conversations of Americans.\n\nQ: Suppose a law enforcement agency is conducting a wiretap on\n a drug smuggling ring and intercepts a conversation\n encrypted using the device. What would they have to do to\n decipher the message?\n\nA: They would have to obtain legal authorization, normally a\n court order, to do the wiretap in the first place. They\n would then present documentation of this authorization to\n the two entities responsible for safeguarding the keys and\n obtain the keys for the device being used by the drug\n smugglers. The key is split into two parts, which are\n stored separately in order to ensure the security of the key\n escrow system.\n\nQ: Who will run the key-escrow data banks?\n\nA: The two key-escrow data banks will be run by two independent\n entities. At this point, the Department of Justice and the\n Administration have yet to determine which agencies will\n oversee the key-escrow data banks.\n\nQ: How strong is the security in the device? How can I be sure\n how strong the security is? \n\nA: This system is more secure than many other voice encryption\n systems readily available today. While the algorithm will\n remain classified to protect the security of the key escrow\n system, we are willing to invite an independent panel of\n cryptography experts to evaluate the algorithm to assure all\n potential users that there are no unrecognized\n vulnerabilities.\n\nQ: Whose decision was it to propose this product?\n\nA: The National Security Council, the Justice Department, the\n Commerce Department, and other key agencies were involved in\n this decision. This approach has been endorsed by the\n President, the Vice President, and appropriate Cabinet\n officials.\n\nQ: Who was consulted? The Congress? Industry?\n\nA: We have on-going discussions with Congress and industry on\n encryption issues, and expect those discussions to intensify\n as we carry out our review of encryption policy. We have\n briefed members of Congress and industry leaders on the\n decisions related to this initiative.\n\nQ: Will the government provide the hardware to manufacturers?\n\nA: The government designed and developed the key access\n encryption microcircuits, but it is not providing the\n microcircuits to product manufacturers. Product\n manufacturers can acquire the microcircuits from the chip\n manufacturer that produces them.\n\nQ: Who provides the \"Clipper Chip\"?\n\nA: Mykotronx programs it at their facility in Torrance,\n California, and will sell the chip to encryption device\n manufacturers. The programming function could be licensed\n to other vendors in the future.\n\nQ: How do I buy one of these encryption devices? \n\nA: We expect several manufacturers to consider incorporating\n the \"Clipper Chip\" into their devices.\n \nQ: If the Administration were unable to find a technological\n solution like the one proposed, would the Administration be\n willing to use legal remedies to restrict access to more\n powerful encryption devices?\n\nA: This is a fundamental policy question which will be\n considered during the broad policy review. The key escrow\n mechanism will provide Americans with an encryption product\n that is more secure, more convenient, and less expensive\n than others readily available today, but it is just one\n piece of what must be the comprehensive approach to\n encryption technology, which the Administration is\n developing.\n\n The Administration is not saying, \"since encryption\n threatens the public safety and effective law enforcement,\n we will prohibit it outright\" (as some countries have\n effectively done); nor is the U.S. saying that \"every\n American, as a matter of right, is entitled to an\n unbreakable commercial encryption product.\" There is a\n false \"tension\" created in the assessment that this issue is\n an \"either-or\" proposition. Rather, both concerns can be,\n and in fact are, harmoniously balanced through a reasoned,\n balanced approach such as is proposed with the \"Clipper\n Chip\" and similar encryption techniques.\n\nQ: What does this decision indicate about how the Clinton\n Administration's policy toward encryption will differ from\n that of the Bush Administration? \n\nA: It indicates that we understand the importance of encryption\n technology in telecommunications and computing and are\n committed to working with industry and public-interest\n groups to find innovative ways to protect Americans'\n privacy, help businesses to compete, and ensure that law\n enforcement agencies have the tools they need to fight crime\n and terrorism.\n\nQ: Will the devices be exportable? Will other devices that use\n the government hardware?", "The chemicals are gone Thanks for all the response\n\n", "\nSo that still leaves the door totally open for Khomeini, Hussein\net rest. They could still be considered true Muslims, and you can't\njudge them, because this is something between God and the person.\n\nYou have to apply your rule as well with atheists/agnostics, you\ndon't know their belief, this is something between them and God.\n\nSo why the hoopla about Khomeini not being a real Muslim, and the\nhoopla about atheists being not real human beings?\n\nCheers,\nKent", "\n: When Elizabeth greeted Mary, Elizabeth said something to the effect that\n: Mary, out of all women, was blessed. If so, it appears that this\n: exactly places Mary beyond the sanctification of normal humanity.\n\nThe phrase is \"eulogemene su en gunaixin\"- \"blessed are you among women.\"\nThere is nothing to indicate that this is an exceptional or unique status,\nonly that _as a woman_ Mary was blessed. Adding the word \"all\" is not\na fair reading of the text. There are some good reasons for the church's\nveneration of Mary, but they cannot depend on this verse.", "[This was crossposted to a zillion groups. I don't intend to\ncarry an entire discussion crossposted from alt.sex, particularly\none whose motivation seems to be having a fun argument. However\nI thought readers might be interested to know about the\ndiscussion there. --clh]\n\nI intend to endeavor to make the argument that homosexuality is an\nimmoral practice or lifestyle or whatever you call it. I intend to\nshow that there is a basis for a rational declaration of this\nstatement. I intend to also show that such a declaration can be \nmade without there being a religious justification for morality,\nin fact to show that such a standard can be made if one is an atheist.\n\nAnyone who wants to join in on the fun in taking the other side,\ni.e. that they can make the claim that homosexuality is not immoral,\nor that, collaterally, it is a morally valid practice, is free to do\nso. I think there are a lot of people who don't believe one can have\na rational based morality without having a religion attached to it.\n\nThis should be fun to try and figure this out, and I want to try and\nexpose (no pun intended) my ideas and see other people's and see where\ntheir ideas are standing. As I'm not sure what groups would be interested\nin this discussion, I will be posting an announcement of it to several,\nand if someone thinks of appropriate groups, let me know.\n\nIf someone on here doesn't receive alt.sex, let me know and I'll make\nan exception to my usual policy and set up a mailing list to automatically\ndistribute it in digest format to anyone who wants to receive it as I'll\nuse that as the main forum for this. By \"exception to usual policy\" is\nthat I normally charge for this, but for the duration the service will be\navailable at no charge to anyone who has an address reachable on Internet\nor Bitnet.\n\nI decided to start this dialog when I realized there was a much larger\naudience on usenet / internet than on the smaller BBS networks.\n\nTo give the other side time to work up to a screaming anger, this will \nbegin on Monday, May 24, to give people who want to make the response\ntime to identify themselves. Anonymous postings are acceptable, since\nsome people may not wish to identify themselves. Also, if someone else\nwants to get in on my side, they are free to do so. ", "I will remind this list that I have a booklet on Fatima I will send to any\none who wants it. It is \"Our Lady of Fatima's Peace Plan from Heaven\".\nIt is 30 pages in length and includes the Fatima story. If you want one\nor more, let me know.", "@> \tA few things about the University. It is more fun than some may\n@> admit. Partying does go on and it has consistently been ranked\n@> one of Playboy's top party schools. ...", "Several replies to my post have said that I should get to know \nChristian homosexuals before judging them. I maintain that I was not \njudging them by saying that homosexuality is wrong. I would like to \nlook at the responces to my post and make a general sterotypical \nevaluation of the people who responded to the side of Christianity \nand homosexuality being compatible (admitedly not all are homosexuals \nbut I know that many are from their e-mail responces). I don't \nnormally make sterotypical assumptions about groups of people, but \nsince I have been asked to by many of the opposing veiw point I will.\n\nSo far people have made wild assumptions, put me down because I don't \nhave the resources of others, and even reverted to name calling. If \nyou don't think this is an acurate representation then those of you \nwho are homosexual Christians show me the diffrence.", "\n\n\n\n\nGong!\n\nTake a moment and look at what you just wrote. First you defined\nan \"objective\" morality and then you qualified this \"objective\" morality\nwith subjective justifications. Do you see the error in this?\n\nSorry, you have just disqualified yourself, but please play again.\n", "[Someone quoted the following. I've removed the name because it's not\nclear which name goes with which level of quote. --clh]\n\n\n\nOn the basis of these examples I would say that Joe Moore was only wrong\nin claiming Augustine as a prime mover of the sin=sex view. These quotes\nclearly equate sexuality with defilement and incontinance, even within\nthe marriage relationship (else they would not apply to Mary after her marriage\nto Joseph).\n\nSo Joe's assignment of the reasoning behind the concept of the perpetual\nvirginity of Mary does seem to be supported by these quotes.\n", "\n\nThat's the whole point, David. As spirits separated from their bodies\nand living in the spirit world, they cannot undergo the ordinance of\nmarriage, just as they cannot be baptized, since there is no physical\nbody to be baptized. We perform these ordinances as proxies for them,\nin their behalf. Thanks for asking. Brooks\n\n***************************************************************************\n* Brooks Haderlie (brh54@cas.org) * \" O be wise; what can I say more?\"\n* * Columbus, OH by way of Ucon, ID * - Jacob 6:12 * *", "#I find myself unable to put these two statements together in a\n#sensible way:\n#\n#>Abortion is done because the mother can not afford the *pregnancy*.\n#\n#[...]\n#\n#>If we refused to pay for the more expensive choice of birth, *then*\n#>your statement would make sense. But that is not the case, so it doesn't.\n#\n#Are we paying for the birth or not, Mr. Parker? If so, why can't the\n#mother afford the pregnancy? If not, what is the meaning of the\n#latter objection? You can't have it both ways.\n\nBirth != pregnancy. If they were the same, the topic of abortion would \nhardly arise, would it, Mr. Skinner?\n", "\n\n\nI'm sure there are many people who work with neural networks and\nread this newsgroup. Please tell Kevin what you've achieved, and\nwhat you expect.\n\n\nIndeed. I think dualism is a non-solution, or, as Dennett recently\nput it, a dead horse. \n\nPetri\n", "This article was probably generated by a buggy news reader.\n", "\nThe danger in philosophizing about science is that theory and generalization \ncan end up being far removed from the actual day-to-day of the grunt at the\nbench. Yes, its great to be involved in a process were I can walk into the\nlab after a heavy night of dreaming and just do something for the hell of it\n(as long as my advisor doesn't catch me - which is easy enough to do), but \nstamping out such behavior seems to be the purpose in life of grant review \ncommittees and the peer review process in general. In today's world that's \nwhat determines what science is: what gets funded. And a damn good thing to.\nFlights of fantasy just don't have much chance of producing anything, at \nleast not in biomedical research. The surest way for a graduate student to\nruin their life is to work in a lab where the boss is more concerned with \nfleshing out his/her fantasies than with having the student work on a project\nthat actually has a good chance of producing some results. MD's seem to \nbe particularly prone to this aberrant behavior. \n\n\nI have to agree with Gary Merrill's response to this. I've read alot of the\nAlu and middle repetitive sequence work and it's really very interesting, \ngood work with implications for many fields in molecular genetics. It's \nreally an example of how a well reasoned project turned up interesting \nresults that were unexpected.", "# ## #I remain pro-choice, but when pro-choicers compare abortion in a\n# ## #clinic to a religious ritual in a church, you have to start wondering\n# ## #a bit if the pro-life criticism of abortion as modern human sacrifice\n# ## #doesn't have a grain of truth to it.\n# \n# ## \n# ## Ah, Clayton, so I see that you have found someone new to bash. Tell\n# ## me, how many pro-choicers have compared abortion in a clinic to a\n# ## religious ritual in a church? I'll bet that you've seen \"overwhelming\n# ## support\" for this opinion in some newsgroup or another.\n# \n# #No, but I've seen the comparison drawn by pro-choicers in ca.politics.\n# #It is worrisome to me. But not to you?\n# \n# 1. I've been reading ca.politics for a while now, and I don't recall\n# seeing such a comparison.\n\nYou don't read *my* postings very carefully; I'm not surprised. It\nwas pretty shocking, and is part of why my sympathy (though not\nagreement) with the pro-lifers is increasing.\n\n# 2. A handful of lunatic opinions expressed in ca.politics does not\n# make me think that the opinion is widely held.\n\nWhen did I say that it was?\n\n# Clayton, I wish I knew what made you tick. Your math sucks, and you\n# take single instances of fringe opinions and proclaim the existence of\n# a pernicious trend. There's about a quarter billion people living in\n# this country -- some small number of them are almost guaranteed to\n# hold opinions that you (and I) find positively repellent. As long as\n# the small number is truly a small number, and as long as they're not\n# my neighbor (highly likely), I'm not worried about it.\n\nWhen they hold high public office, you should worry.\n\n# By the way, when you cite experts, remember that Carl Sagan and Paul\n# Ehrlich [sp?] are experts, too. If I've never heard of your experts,\n# I'll consider the source (you, a man who is clearly unable to master\n# elementary statistics and uses of statistical inference) and ignore\n# them.\n# \n# David Chase\n\nYou mean, I don't come to the conclusions that your emotional\nstate requires.\n\n\n", "\n\nI don't know about the paranoia and irrationality, but the rest is\npretty close, all though you left out the inability to breath. Of\ncourse you can make a claim that people will do some fairly deranged\nthings to get away from it. I've seen teenagers flatten 200lb. drill\nsergeants to get out of tents full of it. Which raises another\nissue....\n\n\nWhat they didn't mention is that IN THE OPEN, it probably wouldn't do\nTOO MUCH harm to children, although I wouldn't use it in close proximity\nto infants. On the other hand, IN CONFINED spaces, the effects are\nGREATLY intensified, to the point of LETHALITY, since a sufficient\nquantity of CS will displace OXYGEN. When running a CS chamber CAREFUL\nattention is paid to ventilation. I wonder if they checked to see if\nany of the BDs were asthmatics or suffered from other respiratory\ndiseases. I doubt it.\n", "\nAnd I was pointing out that legal precedent defines a human being as\nreferring only to the born, so your suggestion was incorrect.\n\n\nThere is a confusion here about what \"bodily resources\" constitutes. Blood\ntransfusions and organ donations involve bodily resources; your examples\ndo not.", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\tAgain I find myself wanting to respond to a posting and having neither\nthe time nor the proper materials with me (you would think I would learn my\nlesson by now--but I'm trying to finish writing my Thesis and don't have tons\nof time. Anyway...)\n\n\tThe basis for our (the catholic church's) belief in the assumption of\nMary, body and soul, into heaven is that, to put it simply, the apostles \nand all the early generation Christians believed it. In fact, throughout their\nministry the apostles kept in close contact with Mary, and 11 of the 12 were\npresent when she died. Only Thomas was missing--when he arrived several days\nlater, he asked to be shown her body, and moved with pity, Peter and several of\nthe other apostles brought him to her tomb. When they arrived the seal was\nstill unbroken. They broke the seal, entered, and the body was missing. There\nwas no sign that anyone had entered, forcibly or otherwise, and everything else\nwas laid out exactly as it had been left. The apostles present all believed\nthat Mary was assumed into heaven--and the apostles TAUGHT this in their \npreaching (of course, this does not appear in any of the texts currently \nconsidered part of the bible, but it does appear in other writings left behind\nby several of them.) Basicaly, as an apostolic church (ie. founded by the\napostles), we believe that the teachings of the apostles, whether written down\nin the bible or written down in other sources, is true, providing that the\nauthenticity of those other sources can be confirmed. At least in the case of\nthe assumption of Mary, the authenticity is quite clear.", "Well,\n\n42 is 101010 binary, and who would forget that its the\nanswer to the Question of \"Life, the Universe, and Everything else.\"\nThat is to quote Douglas Adams in a round about way.\n\nOf course the Question has not yet been discovered...\n\n--\nMark A. Cartwright, N5SNP\nUniversity of Texas @ Austin\nComputation Center, Graphics Facility\nmarkc@emx.utexas.edu\nmarkc@sirius.cc.utexas.edu\nmarkc@hermes.chpc.utexas.edu\n(512)-471-3241 x 362\n\nPP-ASEL 9-92", "\n\n\n\"Muslim\" in ex-Yugoslavia was a *nation* not a religion. In fact, not\nall Muslims in B-H are followers of Islam. Therefore, there do (did?)\nexist in ex-Yugoslavia \"Christian Muslims.\" Tito defined the Muslim \nnation constitutionally, adding Muslims to Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes,\nthe three founding nations which entered into a voluntary union at the\nend of WWI. In addition, Tito added two other nations constitutionally:\nMontenegrins, and Makedonijans. \n\nNations had the right of secession, but republics did not. So, \"Muslim\"\nis much more a political term than a religious term (for those who \ndifferentiate between religion and politics, that is) in B-H. It was not \na \"Christo-Slavic\" ideology that made a Muslim nation in Yugoslavia, it\nwas the \"Atheist Communist\" ideology of Tito. Before Tito, there was\nno Muslim nation in Yugoslavia. \n\nThe war is not a religious war, and it is not an ethnic war. It is a\ncivil war in which the terms of secession are being negotiated with guns\ninstead of pens. The Croat, Muslim, and Serb political leaders *all*\nchose to fight over the terms of secession instead of compromising and\npeacefully negotiating multilateral secession agreements. ", "\nRobin Lane Fox is a historian and a gardener. He has written several\nhistory books, perhaps a recent one you might remember is \"The Search\nfor Alexander\". He has also written or edited several books on\ngardening.", "-*----\nI agree with everything that Lee Lady wrote in her previous post in\nthis thread. In case this puzzles people, I would like to expand\non two of her comments.\n\n\nOne of the most important (and difficult) aspects of reasoning\nabout empirical investigation lies in understanding the context,\nscope, and importance of the various arguments and pieces of\nevidence that are marshalled for a claim. Some errors break the\nback of a piece of research, some leave a hole that needs to be\nfilled in, and some are trivial in their importance. It is a\ngrave mistake to confuse these.\n\nPast snippets from this thread:\n\n\n\nBack to Lee Lady:\n\n\nThese posters are making the mistake that I have previously\ncriticized of adhering to a methodological recipe. A \"carefully\ndesigned and controlled study\" is neither always possible nor\nalways important. (On the other hand, if someone is proposing a\nremedy that supposedly alleviates a chronic medical problem, we\nhave enough knowledge of the errors that have plagued *this* kind\nof claim to ask for a \"carefully designed and controlled study\"\nto alleviate our skepticism.)\n\nRules such as \"support the hypothesis by a carefully designed and\ncontrolled study\" are too narrow to apply to *all* investigation.\nI think that the requirements for particular reasoning to be\nconvincing depends greatly on the kinds of mistakes that have\noccurred in past reasoning about the same kinds of things. (To\nreuse the previous example, we know that conclusions from\nuncontrolled observations of the treatment of chronic medical\nproblems are notoriously problematic.) ", "Hello netters\n\nSorry, I don't know if this is the right way of doing this kind of thing,\nprobably should be a CFV, but since I don't have tha ability to create a \nnews group myself, I just want to start the discussion. \n\nI enjoy reading c.g very much, but I often find it difficult to sort out what\nI'm interested in. Everything from screen-drivers, graphics cards, graphics\nprogramming and graphics programs are discused here. What I'd like is a \ncomp.graphics.programmer news group.\nWhat do you other think.\n", "Yesterday, I went to the Boeing shareholders meeting. It was a bit shorter\nthan I expected. Last year (when the stock was first down), they made a big\npresentation on the 777, and other programs. This year, it was much more\nbare-bones.\n\nIn any case, I wanted to ask a question that the board of directors would\nhear, and so I got there early, and figured that If I didn't get to the mike,\nmaybe they would read mine off of a card, and so I wrote it down, and handed it\nin.\n\nAfter the meeting started, Mr. Shrontz said that he would only answer written\nquestions, in order to be fair to the people in the overflow room that only\nhad monitors downstairs. Naturally, I was crushed.\n\nSo, when question and answer time came, I was suprised to find my question\nbeing read and answered. Admittedly near the end of the ones that he took.\nPresumably getting there early, and getting the question in early made all\nthe difference.\n\nSo, on to the substance. The question was \n\nIs Boeing looking at anything BEYOND the high speed Civil Transport, such\nas a commercial space launch system, and if not, how will Boeing compete\nwith the reusable single stage to orbit technology presently being developed\nby Mcdonnell Douglass?\n\nWell, he read it without a hitch, and without editing, with impressed me,\nthen he answered it very quickly treating it as a two part question, last\npart first.\n\nThis is to the best of my recollection what he said.\n\nAs far as single stage to orbit technology, we think that we have a better\nanswer in a two stage approach, and we are talking to some of our customers \nabout that. As far as commercialization, that is a long ways off. The High\nspeed Civil Transport is about as far out as our commercial planning goes at\nthis point.\n\nSo, this tells me that Boeing still considers space to be a non-commercial\narena, and for the most part this is true, however it also tells me that \nthey consider there to be enough money in building space launchers for them\nto persue work on their own.\n\nNow, I do have a friend on the spacelifter program at boeing. Actually,\nthis is a mis-nomer, as there is no spacelifter contract for the work that this\nguy is doing, however, he is doing work in preparation of a proposal for space\nlifter contracts. He won't tell me what he is doing, but maybe this is where\nthe TSTO action is taking place at boeing. At the very minimum, the chairman\nof the board of boeing said that they have an approach in mind, and they are\ntrying to do something with it. \n\nAnybody know anything further?\nIs this really news?\nDoes this threaten further work on DC-? ?", " \n\n\nIt's not really their _decision_ to be tried. The rulings _do_ have\nlegal consequences, but only in Islamic law and not in UK law (this\nshould be obvious). Enforcing a judgment is distinct from the making\nof a judgment. Take for example the judgments of the World Court. This\nis an internationally recognized tribunal whose judgments often have no\nphysical or economic effect but which _are_ important despite the fact\nthat their judgments cannot be enforced\n\n\n\nOf course, have you read any of this thread before this post? \n\n\n\nOf course, it is a sort of anarchism. Anarchism is explicitly against\nIslam. Thank you for your well reasoned response, but it is beside the\npoints I've been making in this thread. \n", "\nProbably within 50 years, it will be possible to disassemble and\nre-assemble our bodies at the molecular level. Not only will flawless\ncosmetic surgery be possible, but flawless cosmetic PSYCHOSURGERY.\n\nWhat will it be like to store all the prices of shelf-priced bar-coded\ngoods in your head, and catch all the errors they make in the store's\nfavor at SAFEWAY? What will it be like to mentally edit and spell-\ncheck your responses to the questions posed by a phone caller selling\nVACATION TIME-SHARE OPTIONS?\n\nIndeed, we are today a nation at risk! The threat is not from bad genes,\nbut bad memes! Memes are the basic units of culture, as opposed to genes\nwhich are the units of genetics.\n\nWe stand on the brink of new meme-amplification technologies! Harmful\nmemes which formerly were restricted in their destructive power will\nrun rampant over the countryside, laying waste to the real benefits that\nfuture technology has to offer.\n\nFor example, Jeremy Rifkin has been busy trying to whip up emotions\nagainst the new genetically engineered tomatoes under development at\nCALGENE. This guy is inventing harmful memes, a virtual memetic Typhoid\nMary.", "\nSociety, as we have known it, it coming apart at the seams! The basic reason\nis that human life has been devalued to the point were killing someone is\n\"No Big Deal\". Kid's see hundreds on murderous acts on TV, we can abort \nchildren on demand, and kill the sick and old at will. So why be surprised\nwhen some kids drop 20 lbs rocks and kill people. They don't care because the\nmessage they hear is \"Life is Cheap\"!", "\nOk boys and girls,\n\n\"What was the 'Ogadan War'????\"\n\nThe Money Raised in Band-Aid covered How Much of\nthe Cost of Which Soviet Client State to replace what\ncatagory of weapon system lost in the aforementioned war?\n\nWhy was the Joke: \"We arm the World.\" Really Not that funny?\n\nGonzo Station is the designation for WHICH USN Op Area?\nand the primary threat targets in the Area Were:.....\n\nciao\ndrieux\n\n\n", "#Tells you something about the fascist politics being practiced ....\n\nAh, ending discrimination is now fascism. \n", "THE WHITE HOUSE\n\n Office of the Press Secretary\n_____________________________________________________________________\nFor Immediate Release April 15, 1993\n\n\n PRESS BRIEFING\n BY GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS\n\n The Briefing Room\n\n\n\n1:04 P.M. EDT\n\t \n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Good afternoon. \n\t \n\t Q\t Could we do this on the lawn?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: That would be nice. Let's go out \nto the cherry blossoms. We'll do like the President.\n\t \n\t Q\t Is the stimulus package dead? \n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Absolutely not. \n\t \n\t Q\t Can you tell us more about the Dole talks? You \nsaid it was a good visit, but no compromise.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes. The President had a good talk \nwith Senator Dole last night. I think that as we said before, there \nwere no specific compromises on either side, although it was a very \ngood discussion about the jobs package and about other issues as \nwell. As you know, the President first called Senator Dole I believe \nTuesday night to talk about the Russian aid package. They did not \nspeak -- Senator Dole called him back Wednesday morning -- when the \nPresident was out. Instead he spoke with Tony Lake, and at the close \nof that conversation, indicated that he wanted to speak to the \nPresident about the jobs and stimulus package. They finally talked \nabout that yesterday afternoon.\n\t \n\t At the close of that discussion they said that they \nwould have another talk last night, which they did, when the Senator \nwas up in New Hampshire. And although there were no specific \ncompromises made on either side, they did say that they would \ncontinue to have some discussions. And that's where we are.\n\t \n\t Q\t Well, who is giving in? Where is it standing --are \nboth making concessions?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know that it's at that \nphase. No compromise has been made. As the President has said \nconsistently, he intends to come forward with an adjusted package. \nHe believes in the package, but he believes that if it's going to \ntake adjustments to get the minority to release it, he's willing to \nmake those adjustments.\n\t \n\t Q\t On the subject of a VAT --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Oh, boy.\n\t \n\t Q\t Can we stay on this for one more minute?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Sure.\n\t \n\t Q\t We have a problem with the five minutes --\n\t \n\t Q\t I know no decisions have been made, but what would \nlead the health group to believe that a VAT might be necessary?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Sorry, Andrea, I'm not going to go \ndown that road. No decisions have been made. As the President said \nthis morning, a number of groups, a number of members of Congress, a \nnumber of other organizations have recommended that this be looked \nat. The working group is looking at it, but no decisions have been \nmade.\n\t \n\t Q\t To follow, have they done that directly through \nhim? Have labor and business groups been in touch with the President \nabout it?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Not to my knowledge, although \nthere's a lot of people who have public decisions in support of the \nVAT. But the President has not made a decision.\n\t \n\t Q\t At the meetings that he's had with his own task \nforce advisers, have they discussed the funding issue and what the \npossible options would be?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't think that that has been \npresented for a decision, no.\n\t \n\t Q\t Not for a decision, but has it been discussed as an \noption?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Again, there are a lot of levels of \nbriefing. I do not believe that the VAT has been presented to the \nPresident as, okay, this is something for you to decide on. \n\t \n\t Q\t You're not saying he didn't know it was being \nconsidered, though, are you?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No, he said it's being considered.\n\t \n\t Q\t He knew that.\n\t \n\t Q\t But has he discussed that with his advisers? \nThat's what I'm asking.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The President has said it's being \nconsidered. I do not know what level of discussion there has been \nover the VAT. It is something the working groups are looking at. I \ndon't even know that it's --\n\t \n\t Q\t But he didn't say he was considering, did he, at \nthis stage?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No, he is not. I think we're \ngetting into something of a metaphysical debate right here. What is \nconsidered -- \n\t \n\t Q\t Well, he is the one who said, I haven't reviewed \nit.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: That is true. That is what I just \nrepeated. \n\t \n\t Q\t George, is there any concern here that as a result \nof the definite statement he made in February and the promise that if \nit were to be considered he'd let us know, and having it trickle out \nthe way it did, that there may now be the development of a \ncredibility gap on this issue and others?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't think so. I mean, it is \nnow public knowledge that this is being considered.\n\t \n\t Q\t Is he or you at all embarrassed about the absolute \nstatements that were made from this platform to the effect that it \nwas off the table and was not being considered, and then to have it \ncome out not from you people, but --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, wait a second. It came out \nfrom the administration. What are you talking about?\n\t \n\t Q\t What I'm saying is, though, that the President said \nhe would let us know. \n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Right.\n\t \n\t Q\t You people then said -- you said, I believe, that \nit's not going to be on the program.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: On March 25th.\n\t \n\t Q\t On March 25th. \n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Circumstances change.\n\t \n\t Q\t Well, I understand. But we have to find that out \nby rooting around in the fine print of an interview\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Rooting around -- I know you did do \na very good job there to read the USA Today article. But this is --\n(laughter) -- the Deputy Director of the OMB and the Secretary of \nHealth and Human Services. I mean, that is common anytime you guys \nwrite a story that has an unattributed quote from somebody in the \nClinton administration, the headline is -- I'll look at it right \nhere, and AP story -- \"Clinton wants more money for spying.\"\n\t \n\t Q\t What about his remark that if it were being \nconsidered, he'd tell us about it? \n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: And the administration's concerned, \nand he'd let you know.\n\t \n\t Q\t And did he?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes. Absolutely. What did he say \nthis morning?\n\t \n\t Q\t It had to be dragged out of you here yesterday.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: It didn't have to be dragged out of \nme. We had the Deputy Director of the OMB, we had the Secretary of \nHealth of Human Services say it was being considered. That is his \nadministration. That is his administration policy.\n\t \n\t Q\t Were these authorized trial balloons, or were they \norchestrated leaks? I mean, what was the --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: They were asked questions, they \nanswered the questions.\n\t \n\t Q\t You're saying here that it didn't have to be \ndragged out, that you more or less made it clear yesterday you were \nconsidering it.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Absolutely. I was very clear. \nPainfully clear.\n\t \n\t Q\t Was there a particular political strategy in making \nit clear the administration is considering a new tax increase on tax \nday?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No, it was just this issue is being \nconsidered. They were asked if it was being considered; they \nanswered that it was being considered.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, The New York Times --\n\t \n\t Q\t Why do it yesterday?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: They were asked.\n\t \n\t Q\t The New York Times reports today that Secretary \nReich and the chief economist at the Labor Department used apples and \noranges numbers in order to portray last month's unemployment figures \nin a way that was supportive of the President's job stimulus bill, \nbut which turned out to be totally false.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know if it was totally \nfalse, but I think -- (laughter) -- the chief economist at the Labor \nDepartment did grant that it was an inappropriate mixing, and they \nsay that. \n\t \n\t Q\t The question is, is the President concerned about \nbehavior that amounts to corrupting government data? And what's he \ndoing about it, if so?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The chief economist has said that a \nmistake was made, it won't happen again, and that's the end of the \nmatter.\n\t \n\t Q\t Isn't that the same information that goes to the \nPresident?\n\t \n\t Q\t If I could go back to the stimulus package --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: There's two separate pieces of \ninformation. I think that's where the confusion was.\n\t \n\t Q\t When did you all first learn about this mistake \nthat was made?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I read the article this morning.\n\t \n\t Q\t And as far as you know, is the President aware of \nit?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think so.\n\t \n\t Q\t And was he aware of it before he read about it in \nThe New York Times?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know. Not to my knowledge.\n\t \n\t Q\t Did you ever hear about it before this morning? \nAnything?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I didn't.\n\t \n\t Q\t Wasn't the President given an erroneous spin on \nthis for his own purpose? For his speeches, for his arguments?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well again, I'm not sure. Both \nstatements are true. What the Labor Department has granted is that \nmixing them in one sentence, essentially, was misleading. They said \nit was a mistake. They said they wouldn't do it again.\n\t \n\t Q\t Did they drop it -- is this something that you \nchoose to spin or make an issue of?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Whenever fewer people are out of \nwork, we're gratified. But that doesn't take away from the need to \nget this jobs package going.\n\t \n\t Q\t If I could go back to the stimulus package for a \nminute. You said that the President plans to come forward with an \namendment. Is the timetable still what it was -- that the amendment \nwould be laid down on Monday and voted on on Tuesday, or did he, in \nthe conversation with Dole, talk about the possibility of putting \nthat off for a few more days to give more time for the discussion?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think at this point there's no \nchanges in the schedule at all. I don't know that they discussed the \ntiming like that.\n\t \n\t Q\t Do you believe that you're closer or getting closer \nthis week than you were last week?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Again, I believe that we're going \nto pass a jobs package. The President is prepared to make \nadjustments in order to get that to happen. I don't know where the \nvotes are on cloture at this particular time. I don't know what's \ngoing to happen until we have a vote. But the President believes \ndeeply in this jobs package and wants to get it done.\n\t \n\t Q\t Has there been any indication that this situation \nhas changed?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: We're going to continue to work on \nit. We'll know when the votes are taken.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, last week you said that there are -- or \nvarious people in the administration were saying that you couldn't go \nthrough Dole, you were going to have to try and go around him because \nhe was immovable on this subject of a compromise, or at least the \ncompromise he wanted was not anything like the one that you could \naccept. This week you're talking to him. Is that because you've \nrealized that the peeling off effort wasn't going to work?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: That's because Senator Dole wanted \nto talk to the President about the stimulus package.\n\t \n\t Q\t He initiated the conversation?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes.\n\t \n\t Q\t Secretary Reich this morning said that, in fact, \nthe President is not willing to compromise on this bill at all. You \nsay he's making --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know that that's exactly \nwhat he said. I think he said he didn't have any indication that \nthere was any compromises yet or that there would be a compromise, \nand the President doesn't want to compromise. And the President \ndoesn't want to compromise. But if he has to make adjustments to get \nit through, he will.\n\t \n\t Q\t Officials here yesterday said that Panetta was \nworking on a series of adjustments that might be made public before \nthe actual vote.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: It's possible.\n\t \n\t Q\t Today?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm not sure exactly when that will \nhappen, but I think that it's very possible that we'll come forward \nwith some sort of a different package, or Senate Democrats will come \nforward with some sort of a different package in order to get it \npassed.\n\t \n\t Q\t As we understood his conversations with Dole, the \nfirst one was some discussion of this and I'll get back to you \ntonight with some details or some adjustments, or whatever the phrase \nis. Did he offer him some details or some adjustments? \n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think it's a question of how \ndetailed. I mean, I think they had a general discussion about the \npackage last night, subsequent to their conversation yesterday \nafternoon. I believe that there will be follow-up discussions today \nin the Senate, not necessarily between the President and Senator \nDole. And let me just reiterate, neither side has made specific \ncompromises at this date. When we have something we'll let you know. \nAnd I'm not suggesting that Senator Dole has accepted anything that \nwe've talked about or that we've offered anything in a hard way.\n\t \n\t Q\t What are the follow-up discussions if not the \nPresident and Dole?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think Senator Mitchell is going \nto talk to Senator Dole.\n\t \n\t Q\t Is that a threat? (Laughter.)\n\t \n\t Q\t Did the President say to Senator Dole, all right, \nhow about this number as an overall size, or did Dole say to the \nPresident, I can go as high as this? Did they talk numbers?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't think it was a negotiation \nin that respect. It was more of a discussion about their positions.\n\t \n\t Q\t Did they discuss actual numbers?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm just not sure. I know they \ntalked about the basic outlines of the packages. I think they talked \nabout the programs they cared about. I don't know if they got to the \nlevel of this many x-billion dollars. \n\t \n\t Q\t Does Dole have to sign off before there is a \npackage?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No, of course not.\n\t \n\t Q\t Did the White House have anything to do with the \nprotesters who showed up in New Hampshire today where Senator Dole \nwas speaking? Was that in any way organized by --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Not to my knowledge, no.\n\t \n\t Q\t And has the President been in touch with Senators \nKohl or Feingold? \n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't think he's talked to them, \nno.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, is the President considering the more \npalatable fact of having a national sales tax instead of having the \nhaves having to continuously pay for the have-nots? And is he going \nto scrap his proposed tax on the privileged few, with the haves \nhaving to pay for the have-nots?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The President believes deeply that \nthe tax rates on upper income Americans, as he presented in his \nbudget, should go up. And I think for the second half of your \nquestion, I'll refer you to my briefing from yesterday.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, on the subject of accuracy in information, \nyou suggested the other day that the stimulus package included money \nthat would solve the water problem in Milwaukee. Apparently that is \nnot true. It's actually waste water money.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: It's waste water money for \nWisconsin, and some could go to Milwaukee. \n\t \n\t Q\t But it would not affect the drinking water problem \nbecause it's waste water money, right?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: It would affect the water treatment \noverall. \n\t \n\t Q\t But the implication from your statement the other \nday was that it would help fix this disease problem in Milwaukee now. \nWould you agree that's not the case?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm not sure of the specifics. I \nknow that it goes to the overall water treatment in Wisconsin.\n\t \n\t Q\t A leftover question from this morning, which was, \nwhen did the President find out that the task force was deliberating \non a VAT?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm not sure exactly when. I just \ndon't know. I assume it came up over the last -- certainly between \nthe time that we had commented on in the past and two days ago. \n\t \n\t Q\t So sometime since March 25th?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think that's right. I don't know \nthe exact date.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, the President this morning mentioned that \nsome labor and business groups are for the VAT tax. Apparently, the \nNational Association of Manufacturers talks about perhaps the VAT tax \nbeing okay if it replaces the BTU tax. So does the President feel \nthat perhaps this might be in place of some other tax he's proposed, \nor is this totally in addition to the other taxes he's already \nproposed? \n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think we've said all we have to \nsay about the VAT at this point. I mean, there's just no -- this is \nbeing considered by the health care working groups, and that is all. \nThe President hasn't made any further decisions beyond that. \n\t \n\t Q\t But it would be to finance health care, it wouldn't \nbe to replace some other tax that finances -- it wouldn't replace the \nincome tax, for instance?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: There have been no discussions on \nthat.\n\t \n\t Q\t In terms of getting a VAT tax through Congress, \nSenator Dole's press release today said VAT -- on tax day. Do you \nthink -- does it have a chance of getting through Congress? Would it \nhave a chance?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I have no idea. \n\t \n\t Q\t Is that a consideration whether you all put it \nforward?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: That would become a consideration \nif the President were to decide to do it. It's not in consideration \nnow.\n\t \n\t Q\t You said at the beginning of the briefing that \ncircumstances had changed and that had caused the VAT to now be under \nconsideration.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes, what the President referred to \nthis morning. These groups came forward and said this is something \nthat has to be considered.\n\t \n\t Q\t Those are the circumstances that have changed? \nThat's the only difference between now and when he emphatically ruled \nit out that groups have asked it to be considered?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: That's what he said. \n\t \n\t Q\t Is that true?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes.\n\t \n\t Q\t Was there, in fact, some understanding that sin \ntaxes would not produce enough money for the health care benefits?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm not going to get into the \ndeliberations.\n\t \n\t Q\t But, George --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No. What the consideration is, as \nthe President said, groups came forward and said this is something \nyou ought to consider. The working groups are looking at it. \n\t \n\t Q\t Is that the only thing that's changed since his \nprior statement and your prior statement on the VAT?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes.\n\t \n\t Q\t Can you explain how those groups -- how that \ninformation got to him that groups wanted it? Was it just reading \nthe newspaper or did groups make presentations?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think the groups -- as you know, \nthe health care task force has met with dozens of groups.\n\t \n\t Q\t But this is the President's knowledge that these \ngroups had come forward.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think he was referring to what \nwas coming to the working groups. Obviously, there have also been \npublished positions in the newspapers.\n\t \n\t Q\t Have certain groups briefed him on the group's \npresentations to them?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know if they've briefed him \n-- I mean, how detailed the briefings have been. I know that the \nworking groups decided to look into this after being pressed by these \ngroups.\n\t \n\t Q\t What kind of arguments did the groups make that \nwere persuasive enough that the President would change the position \nthat he had enunciated previously?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know, it's just they've had \nlongstanding positions that this would be a good way to finance \nhealth care.\n\t \n\t Q\t The President wasn't aware of those longstanding \npositions?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: He may have been at some level. \nObviously, he's been a governor for a long time and he knows the \nbasic arguments for and against a VAT tax.\n\t \n\t Q\t What we're trying to figure out here -- you're \ntelling us that the only change, the only thing that affected this \nchange in the President's attitude toward the VAT between February \nand now --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The President's attitude hasn't \nnecessarily changed. I mean, he has not made a decision.\n\t \n\t Q\t I know, but the President said that it was off the \ntable. So did you. And you're saying that the only thing that's \nchanged is the positions of these groups, except you're also \ndescribing them as longstanding positions. I don't see the change. \nIf these groups haven't had any change in their position that's been \nmade to the President --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, they've made the \npresentations to the health care task force.\n\t \n\t Q\t There's no relationship at all between the fact \nthat sin taxes that he had said -- suggested in February that he \nfavored will not produce enough revenue to finance --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't think he ever suggested \nthat they would produce all the revenue.\n\t \n\t Q\t Well, he suggested that he thought that those were \nappropriate ways to finance health care.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: He did say that. I don't know that \nhe said anything to refute that.\n\t \n\t Q\t But, in fact, has the task force discovered that \nthere wouldn't be enough revenue from those taxes to finance the kind \nof core benefits --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Again, I don't think that the task \nforce ever suggested that there would.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, if he advocated a VAT tax, would that break \nhis promise not to raise taxes on the middle class to pay for his \nprograms?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I can't comment on a hypothetical \nsituation.\n\t \t \n\t Q\t But does that promise -- would that promise not to \nraise taxes on the middle class to pay for the programs prevent him \nfrom seeking a VAT tax?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The President has made no decisions \non the VAT tax. When he does, we'll tell you and we'll explain the \nimplications then.\n\t \n\t Q\t Which specific groups can you cite -- business, \nlabor or otherwise -- whose recommendations to the health care task \nforce has prompted this consideration?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't have the specific. I just \ndon't have that.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, can you tell us to what extend these other \nalternatives, for instance, the employer tax or the sin taxes or \nother financing options are also still on the table and what these \noptions are?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No, as members of the task force \nand representatives of the working groups have said, they are looking \nat a wide variety of options. I think that Ira Magaziner said that \nthere are 20 different options under consideration. But I'm not \ngoing to comment --\n\t \n\t Q\t What's the scope --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm just not going to comment on \nthem, no.\n\t \n\t Q\t What's the scope of the need? How much are you \ntalking about that has to be produced by one or a combination of the \n--\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: That's what the health care task \nforce is looking at.\n\t \n\t Q\t Since there's not going to be any briefing on the \nMiyazawa visit, two questions: One, generally what does the \nPresident hope to use that meeting for, but more specifically, is his \ntask complicated by the Japanese anger over the Vancouver note and \nthe remark about market access at the press conference?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The Vancouver note?\n\t \n\t Q\t Does no mean yes.\n\t \n\t Q\t Yes and no.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, I don't know. I saw the \nPrime Minister's press conference where he was asked the question \nabout that note and he gave a very gracious and complete answer when \nhe was asked the question. The questions of trade are something that \ncertainly will be discussed between the Prime Minister and the \nPresident. There is obviously a trade imbalance between Japan and \nthe U.S. that we want to do something about.\n\t \n\t Q\t Also in those comments the Prime Minister made he \nsuggested that the United States should come down heavy on him in \nterms of trade. Are you going to oblige? \n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think the President will state \nour views on trade very clearly and our views on the trade deficit \nvery clearly. I don't necessarily want to agree with your \ncharacterization of the Prime Minister's comments.\n\t \n\t Q\t that we need specific export targets, specific \nnumerical targets -- is that what he's going to discuss with \nMiyazawa?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: They're going to have a broad \ndiscussion of a wide range of trade issues. I don't want to get into \nthose specifics until after the meeting.\n\t \n\t Q\t Why?\n\t \n\t Q\t That's the crux of the issue, right? Whether or \nnot -- does the President believe that without specific numerical \ntargets, it is really, as he said in his press conference, sort of \nhopeless that this is going to change very much?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The President believes that we must \nhave pressure on Japan to turn the trade imbalance around. I do not \nwant to get into the specifics of how that would be done.\n\t \n\t Q\t But does the President believe that their stimulus \npackage announced yesterday will rectify the imbalance?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think, first, the President wants \nto get a full briefing on the stimulus package from Prime Minister \nMiyazawa himself, and then he'll make the comment on it.\n\t \n\t Q\t How about the Russian aid package? There seems to \nbe some confusion about how the U.S. views that, Secretary \nChristopher saying -- or Bentsen saying the Japanese may need to do \nmore, the Japanese saying that that's not what they heard?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Again, we're going to continue to \nwork with all our allies in the G-7, and we're going to continue to \npress for help for Russian reform, Russian democratic reform. And I \nthink that, so far, we had a very good announcement out of Tokyo and \nwe're going to continue to work with our allies for bilateral \npackages.\n\t \n\t Q\t Do you think the Japanese need to do more?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: We're going to continue to work \nwith all our allies to do as much as we can.\n\t \n\t Q\t Secretary Christopher was asked today on the Today \nShow this morning what he thought of Margaret Thatcher's comments on \nthe Bosnia policy. And he said, \"It's a rather emotional response.\" \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Over an emotional issue.\n\t \n\t Q\t Right -- to an emotional problem. Does the White \nHouse condone that kind of remark?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think that Secretary \nChristopher's remarks speaks for itself. The President believes also \nthat this is a deeply troubling situation that we're trying to find \nanswers for. \n\t \n\t Q\t But that specific -- \"rather emotional response\" -- \nspecific term?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No, it speaks for itself.\n\t \n\t Q\t In connection with that, doesn't it seem that with \nthe numbers of people who are being killed at this very moment, is it \ngood American policy to put off some decisions that might be made now \nto help Boris Yeltsin win a referendum?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: For example?\n\t \n\t Q\t To take stronger action, to take military action -- \nair strikes, anything that can be done?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The President believes that what \nmust be done now is to push harder for sanctions. He is also -- as \nyou know, the administration has been discussing lifting the arms \nembargo. He believes those are the appropriate ways to increase \npressure at this time.\n\t \n\t Q\t What is your response to the critics who would say \nthat the U.S. is now stymied by trying to help Boris Yeltsin retain \nthe presidency?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: They're wrong. We're pressing hard \nfor the Serbs to come to the negotiating table. We're pressing hard \nfor increased sanctions, and we're talking to our allies about the \narms embargo.\n\t \n\t Q\t You were putting great store in Vance and Owen \ngetting people to agree to that. Now, Vance and Owen have both said \nthat military force to some extent would be acceptable. Does that \nchange your thinking?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Clearly, we're going to listen to \nwhatever people who have put so much time into a situation have to \nsay. But at this point, the President is moving forward on sanctions \nand talking about the arms embargo.\n\t \n\t Q\t A follow-up on a Dee Dee comment this morning. She \nsaid she would be able to provide some administration officials who \ncould document the effect the sanctions are having in Bosnia. Are \nyou going to be able to do that, or do you have anything --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't think that's what she said.\n\t \n\t Q\t That's exactly what she said.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't think that's true. But \nwhat she said -- we would look into the situation of what kind of \nevidence can be provided in Bosnia. Obviously, if there are \nconnections between the Bosnian Serbs and the Serbs in Belgrade and \nwe are tightening the screws on the Serbs in Belgrade, that will have \nan effect over time. I do not know day by day, minute by minute, \nwhat kind of help is being given between the two and what the exact \neffect has been. But, clearly, we are slowing the shipment of goods \ninto Belgrade. We are having an effect on the Serbs there. What \nkind of effect that will eventually have on the Bosnian Serbs I don't \nknow. But one thing I would say is if it were having no effect at \nall, I don't know why they'd be fighting it so much.\n\t \n\t Q\t Are the First Lady's tax returns going to be \nreleased?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think there's a joint tax return. \nAnd it will be probably later today.\n\t \n\t Q\t Is the President considering signing an executive \norder banning discrimination against homosexuals in the federal work \nforce as part of the gay rights march here next week?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't think there's any proposal \nfor that at this time, not that I know of.\n\t \n\t Q\t It's something that the President promised during \nthe campaign that he would do.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I have not seen any -- I don't \nthink it's anything that's on his plate right now.\n\t \n\t Q\t Is he meeting with gay rights leaders at any point \non this issue?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know about on this issue. \nI assume that he'll meet with representatives of the gay and lesbian \ncommunity sometime soon, as he meets with representatives of lots of \ndifferent groups and communities.\n\t \n\t Q\t Do you know if that's scheduled --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: It's probably going to be tomorrow.\n\t \n\t Q\t Probably going to be tomorrow? (Laughter.)\n\t \n\t Q\t It's a good thing you asked.\n\t \n\t Q\t Who's probably going to be there? (Laughter.)\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know.\n\t \n\t Q\t How long --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know. That's all I know.\n\t \n\t Q\t Do you know if it's at 3:00 p.m. tomorrow? \n(Laughter.)\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know what time it is. I \ndon't even know for sure if it's going to be tomorrow.\n\t \n\t Q\t Environmental groups have asked him to make a major \nspeech next week of some kind. Is that going to happen, do you know?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know if they've asked, but \nI think the President has always planned, as he did last year, to \ngive a speech on Earth Day and I expect that he will. If it's not \nexactly on Earth Day, it might be a day before or something like \nthat.\n\t \n\t Q\t Is he planning to sign or announce the signing of \nthe biodiversity treaty in connection with Earth Day?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Again, I don't know the specific \ntiming of something like that, but it's certainly something under \ndiscussion and something we've been working on.\n\t \n\t Q\t Campaign finance reform?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: We're working on it.\n\t \n\t Q\t Do you think it will be next week?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm just not sure.\n\t \n\t Q\t The biodiversity treaty is something you're working \non? I missed the question.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes, something we're working on. \nHe asked if it was ready to be signed, and I said I didn't know \nanything about that but it's something we've certainly been working \non.\n\t \n\t Q\t Do you know what organizations might be represented \nin this meeting with the gay and lesbian groups?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't.\n\t \n\t Q\t Do you know if he is going to reconsider being out \nof town on the day of the march?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: He's got to be at the Senate \nmeeting in Jamestown, and I believe he's also going to be giving a \nspeech to the American Association of Newspaper Publishers in Boston \non Sunday, as he did last year.\n\t \n\t Q\t Would you have told us if she had not pressed you \non the question?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: On what?\n\t \n\t Q\t On the gays.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: When we went through the \nPresident's schedule for the day, certainly.\n\t \n\t Q?\t George, what day is the publisher's speech? Is \nthat Sunday?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think it's a Sunday.\n\t \n\t Q\t And Saturday he'll be in Jamestown?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes.\n\t \n\t Q\t So you're just going to be in Jamestown for one \nday?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No, I'm not sure. I don't know how \nlong the Senate thing goes. It might go overnight. I just don't \nknow.\n\t \n\t Q\t You would have made the gay meeting public, right?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm certain if we had the meeting \n-- I don't know about open to the press, but we would have told you \nabout it.\n\t \n\t Q\t I mean, because it is, as far as I can tell, the \nfirst time in history a President has met in the Oval Office with -- \n\n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I didn't say it was going to be in \nthe Oval Office. (Laughter.) But I didn't -- I'm not say that it's \nnot, but I didn't say that it was. (Laughter.)\n\t \n\t Q\t at the White House in the Bush administration \ngay officials were invited to a bill signing ceremony and the White \nHouse had to repudiate having done that. So I just wanted to make \nsure --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, the President wouldn't do \nanything like that.\n\t \n\t Q\t Certainly not.\n\t \n\t Q\t What marching orders did the President give to \nGeneral Vessey?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: They had a very good discussion for \nabout half an hour today. He wanted -- the most important thing was \nhe had a full accounting for American POWs and MIAs. He will \nobviously look into the circumstances surrounding this new document. \nThe President stressed that he wanted the fullest possible accounting \nand said that only when we have that can we even consider any changes \nin our policy towards Vietnam. He'll be looking at Vietnam's \nresponse to the questions raised by the document and he'll also look \ninto investigations on discrepancy cases, increased efforts on \nremains, implementing trilateral investigations -- and access to \nmilitary archives. \n\t \n\t And Ambassador Toon also briefed the President on the \nactivities of the joint commission and on the document.\n\t \n\t Q\t Vietnam says it's a fake. What is the DOD analysis \nat this stage?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: It's not completed yet, and it's \nalso the first thing that General Vessey will bring up with the \nVietnamese.\n\t \n\t Q\t A number of Defense officials have been saying that \nthey think that the 600 or so prisoners referred to are, in fact, \nnon-Americans that the Vietnamese had captured who they referred to \nas Americans from time to time. Do people -- \n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: We don't have any final \ndetermination. We're going to wait for the complete review; when we \nhave it, we'll make a judgment.\n\t \n\t Q\t I know you don't have any final determination, but \ngiven all of the intense public interest in this, do you think that \nthat's a likely possibility?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I just don't want to characterize \nit in any way until the review is complete.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, was there a topic scheduled for the speech \nin Boston?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No. \n\t \n\t Q\t Is the President going to have a press conference \ntomorrow with Miyazawa?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think so, but I'm not positive. \nYes, I expect, yes.\n\t \n\t Q\t Was Toon in with Vessey? \n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes. \n\t \n\t Q\t He was in on the meeting?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes.\n\t \n\t Q\t What was the question?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Was Ambassador Toon in with Vessey, \nand the answer is yes. \n\t \n\t Q\t Do you have any response to The Wall Street Journal \nreport this morning the President's distressed about some of his \npress clippings and that perhaps he's distressed with you about that?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No. Well, I do have a response. I \nthink the article was highly misleading to the extent that it implied \nthat the President has had restricted access to the press. I would \npoint out that he's answered 358 questions on 77 occasions, more than \nany of his predecessors. I would also point out it also --\n\t \n\t Q\t How many questions?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Three hundred fifty-eight, on 77 \noccasions.\n\t \n\t Q\t How many were while he was jogging?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, no, that's actually a very \ngood question, Andrea. And I would point out further that the \narticle also implied that these questions were only answered at \ntightly controlled photo opportunities, which is just patently false. \nHe's had 13 press conferences in either the East Room, the Oval \nOffice or the Roosevelt Room or the Briefing Room, in addition to \nquestions taken at photo opportunities, and that is only the --\n\t \n\t Q\t Oval Office press conference -- when was that? \n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: He's answered questions in the --\nEast Room. He's had five in the East Room, he's had one in the Oval \nOffice, he's had one in the Rose Garden, he's had one or two in the \nRoosevelt Room. And this is just to the White House, Washington \nPress Corps. In addition to that, he's had 17 interviews with local \ntelevision anchors. He's met with the editorial board of The \nPortland Oregonian. He's had an hour-long interview with Dan Rather. \nHe's had interviews with local press from California, Florida and \nConnecticut --\n\t \n\t Q\t Can you address the question of the attitude? The \narticle implies that he doesn't --\n\t \n\t Q\t Why doesn't he like us? (Laughter.)\n\t \n\t Q\t Did you really get blamed for that Post story?\n\t \n\t Q\t The story is that you -- are you held responsible \nfor it.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't think I'm going to comment \nabout this.\n\t \n\t Q\t Are you denying that the President has shown \ndispleasure publicly?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I am not commenting on the \ndiscussions between the President and myself.\n\t \n\t Q\t Did the President write that letter to Chris \nWebber?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: What?\n\t \n\t Q\t The letter to the University of Michigan basketball \nplayer?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Oh, yes.\n\t \n\t Q\t That is an authentic letter?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes.\n\t \n\t Q\t Since the President first talked about the VAT in \nFebruary, he said at the time that he thought there probably should \nbe exceptions made in basic necessities such as food and clothing. \nDoes he still hold that position given the impact it could have?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Again, I just can't comment on a \nproposal he hasn't made.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, does the President have some agenda for \nthis meeting with the gay leaders tomorrow?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, I think it will just a \ngeneral meeting on the wide range of issues that they care about \nincluding AIDS and other issues -- civil rights.\n\t \n\t Q\t The military issue?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm certain it will come up.\n\t \n\t Q\t Is he using this event to name the AIDS --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't think so.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, what specifically is the President doing to \nprepare for tomorrow's meeting with the Prime Minister Miyazawa?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: He's had briefing memos. He's had \ngeneral discussions with members of the Treasury Department, the \nTrade Representative and others.\n\t \n\t Q\t report yet?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know if he has the report \nreferred to in The Times, but Ambassador Kantor was here to brief him \ntoday.\n\t \n\t Q\t He was?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes.\n\t \n\t Q\t Does he intend to use any of these instances that \n--\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Again, I don't know that the \nreport's been presented. But obviously, the President will press \nhard in any case where he thinks that a violation has occurred.\n\t \n\t Q\t In terms of the Wall Street Journal, the thrust was \nthat there's a real schism here -- a hostility. Do you think he \nfeels that way?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Not at all. As I said on the \nrecord in the article, I think the President likes reporters. Again, \nI think that the thrust of the article was still misleading. The \nthrust of the article was that in some way, some attitude which the \nPresident may or may not have is affecting access when, in fact, he \nhas the most open, accessible administration than have any in recent \nhistory.\n\n\t Q\t Can we come up to your office? (Laughter.)\n\n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: If you're invited. \n\t \n\t THE PRESS: Thank you.\n\n END 1:34 P.M. EDT", "\n\nBut you haven't taken into the account of propoganda. Remember, if you\nasked Germans before WWII if the Jews shoudl be slaughtered, they would\nprobably answer no, but, after the propoganda machine rolled through, at\nleast some were able to tolerate it.\n\nYou see, it only takes a small group of fanatics to whip up a general\nfrenzy.\n\n\nWell, they haven't managed to outlaw abortion due to the possible objectivity\nof the courts. But, they have managed to create quite a few problems for\npeople that wanted to have an abortion. They could create similar problems\nfor us. And, it could be worse. They can try to stop abortions by blocking\nclinics, etc., but imagine what they'd have to do to stop atheism.\n\n\nSo, you are able to convince them individually, but could you convince a\nwhole room of them? A whole nation?\n\n\nYes, I'd be glad if it were gone to. I've never supported it. However,\nI think that it is a minor problem that can be easily ignored, contrasted\nwith what *could* happen (an what may be likely).\n\n\nWell, I am not clear on the religious convictions of Francis Scott Key (the\nmotto can be attributed to him), but it is at least clear that he believed\nin a god. And, surely there are a few Christians that think as you say,\nbut I don't think that most do. Do you think that all Christians actively\ndespise other religions? Most that I have met haven't and don't do so.\n\n\nWell, I have asked a Hindu, Moselem, and a few Jews, and all of them think\nthat it is applicable to them. Of course, I can't say that these people\n(just some that I know pretty well) are accurate representations of their\nfaiths.\n\n\nWell, I'd really like to, and I've tried, but I really don't know where to\nget access to _Congressional Records_ from the 1950's. Can anyone help\nout here?\n\n\nOnly in the sense that neither can probably convinced to change their beliefs.\n\n\n\nSo, are you saying that they redesign the plates each year?\n\nAnyway, your whole argument (conveniently deleted I see) was that the motto\nsomehow costs us all a lot of money. This is just not correct.\n\n\nThat is to say, the religion of this country, and the non-religion of\nthe USSR. That was what most of those quotes were about, and some included\nall atheists, in general, as well. I don't think that any of the quotes\n(although I seem to have lost them) mentioned anything at all about Jesus.\nThey advocated religion over non-religion. A specific religion was not\nmentioned.\n\n\nSo, you are saying that all Christians must believe that all other religions\nshould be outlawed, just because they think they are wrong? That's silly.\nI think the Flat-Earthers are wrong, but I don't advocate their banishment.\n\n\nI think that any such cost would be insignificant. I mentioned the slight\ncost because you said that the motto was costing us a lot of money by\nbeing on our currency.\n\n\nWell, mottos in general don't really have purposes... I don't think it\nshould be removed because I think the benefit would be outweighed by the\nconsequences.\n\n\nThen you should be concerned with the opinion of the entire congress.\n\n\nWhy not? It is the majority that put it there.\n\n\nBut do they remember the debate surrounding the motto? Do they remember\nthat some people intended it to be a message against atheists? Why don't\nyou include this in your little survey that you were conducting?\n\n[...]\n\nWhat? Should I ask some scientists the probability that something Einstein\nsaid about relativity is worthy? I mean, if Einstein said it, there's a\ngood chance that it was right (at least at the time).\n\n\nYou need not agree with them all of the time, but you would certainly think\nthat their decisions would be good evidence in favor of some point.\n\n\nNo, I think that it would be clearly inappropriate for a Supreme Court\nJustice to testify before Congress during the consideration of a\nConstitutional Amendment.\n\nAnd, in order for the Court to rule on something, a case usually must be\npresented.\n\n\nYes, some mushrooms can be planted. And, I don't appreciate mushrooms on\nmy pizza, either.\n\n\nWho was forced to put the motto there? What do you mean?", "\n\nThat may change next month; at least I hope it will. A couple of hundred\njournalists have requested press passes for the test flights. Sustaining\nthat publicity however, will be a problem. \n\n Allen\n", "}In article \n}\n}>>\n}>2.If Guns were banned, and a bunch showed up in south florida, it\n}>would be 100x easier to trace and notice then a small ripple in the\n}>huge wave of the American gun-craze.\n} ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n}\n} Do they teach courses in rude in Canada?\n\nThey don't have too. Canadian culture is handed down largely from the United\nEmpire Loyalists who fled from the American Revolution. Canuckleheads tend\nto have a \"cratophilic,\" or government-loving attitude towards authority.\n\nPaul Prescod is right in line with this elitist bigotry and prejudice that\nall my Canadian friends hate in their fellow citizens. His sort of snobbish\nCanuck have an irrational horror of American democratic \"armed mobs.\"\n\nTim Starr - Renaissance Now!\n\nAssistant Editor: Freedom Network News, the newsletter of ISIL,\nThe International Society for Individual Liberty,\n1800 Market St., San Francisco, CA 94102\n(415) 864-0952; FAX: (415) 864-7506; 71034.2711@compuserve.com", "\n\nActually, just after the FIRST world war, many Muslims were killed by Serbs.\nUnder Serbian-led regime between the two world wars, many Croats were\nalso killed (especially during the dictatorship introduced on Jan. 6, 1929).\nSome Croats formed a resistance movement \"Ustashas\" (Insurgents) and\nwere forced into exile, to fascist Italy, which sheltered them. In exile,\nthey practiced a terrorist approach to liberating Croatia; while Croats in\nCroatia followed the approach of peaceful negotiations under the leadership\nof Vladko Macek. After the Axis powers took control in the SECOND world\nwar, Vladko Macek refused to collaborate, so Ustashas were brought in \nto run the newly formed puppet state. This state included both Croatia and\nBosnia-Herzegovina, and its ideology saw Muslims as the best Croats\n(\"flowers of Croatian people\"). Some Muslims in Bosnia-Herzegovina\ntherefore joined Ustashas. However, even more others did not; they\njoined Tito's Partisans. The Ustashas membership peaked at \nless than 1% of Croat and Muslim population of that area at that time.\n\nAfter WWII, Muslims were still considered a religious minority descended\nfrom Croats or Serbs who converted to Islam centuries ago. But, in 1968,\nit was decided that forcing Muslims to declare their nationality as\neither Serbs or Croats is not a good policy. Dobrica Cosic, the current\npresident of the rump Yugoslavia, was strongly opposed, and sought to\nprevent the category \"Muslim\" (in an ethnic sense) from appearing on the\nnext census. He was criticized and expelled from the party. So, since\nthat time, Bosnian Muslims are considered a separate nationality, although\nsome still deny this and insist that they choose either Serb or Croat\nnationality.", "Okay, the earth has a magnetic field (unless someone missed something?)\n\nOkay if you put a object in the earth magnetic field, it produces electricty..\n\nNow the question. Can you use electricity to power a space/low earth orbit\nvehicle? and i fyou can, can you use the magnetic field of the earth to power\nit??\nCan the idea of a \"dragless\" satellite be used in part to create the electrical\nfield?\n\nAfter all the dragless satellite is (I might be wrong), a suspended between to\npilons, the the pilons compensate for drag.. I think I know what I want to say,\njust not sure how to say it..\n\nA dragless satellite sounds interestingly enough liek a generator.\n\n==\nMichael Adams, nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu -- I'm not high, just jacked", "================ ------------------------------------------------------------\n |||||||| SciP+Fi ction set in C-Sci\\programming environs list by Ian Feldman\n ..........:::::: ---------------------------------------- ---- --------------\n Written by:_____ _Book Title_; publisher'year, pp v2.7 ISBN\n ----------- =============================== ------- ==== ##############\n John Brunner _Shockwave Rider_; Ray/Ballantine'84 $5_______ 0-345-32431-5\n \"cracking the net to free information for the common good\"\n Pat Cadigan _Mindplayers_; (\"an absolute must-have\" --Bruce Sterling)\n Pat Cadigan _Synners_; Bantam $5; (virtual reality)_______ 0-553-28254-9\n Orson Scott Card _Lost Boys_; Harper Collins'92; (programmer and family \\\n encounters strange events in North Carolina)\n Denise Danks _Frame Grabber_; St.Martin's, hrdb [GBP]17____ 0-312-08786-1\n computer-illiterate journalix tracks down murderer via BBS\n Toni Dwiggins _Interrupt_; (\"a techno-mystery set in Silicon Valley\")\n Michael Frayn _The Tin Men_; Fontana, (\"inspired lunacy\" but out of print)\n David Gerrold _When HARLIE was One Release 2.0_; Bantam'88__ 0-553-26465-6\n William Gibson _Count Zero_; (computers as gods, part of a trilogy)\n William Gibson _Mona Lisa Overdrive_; (virtual reality)______ 0-553-28174-7\n William Gibson _Burning Chrome_; (cyberpunk short stories)___ 0-441-08934-8\n William Gibson _Neuromancer_; (industrial espionage)_________ 0-441-56959-5\n (author guilty of inventing the cyberpunk genre)\n James Hogan _The Genesis Machine_; Del Ray'87 $3__________ 0-345-34756-0\n James Hogan _Thrice Upon A Time_; (\"time travel for information\")\n James Hogan _The Two Faces of Tomorrow_; Del Ray'79_______ 0-345-27517-9\n ultimate test of AI-OS by letting it run a spacelab -> amok\n Stanislaw Lem _His Master's Voice_; (failed attempt to decode ET-message)\n Tom Maddox _HALO_ (\"remarkable SF of robots & artificial intelligence\")\n George RR Martin _Nightflyers_; Tor Books'87___________________ 0-8125-4564-8\n R A MacAvoy _Tea with the Black Dragon_; (\"mystery around a computer \\\n fraud situation; computing bits ring true.\")\n Vonda N McIntyre _Steelcollar Worker_; in Analog Nov'92; (blue-collar VR)\n Marge Piercy _Body of Glass_; Penguin'92, 584pp; (data piracy++) review \\\n finger \"books=Body_of_Glass%danny\"@orthanc.cs.su.oz.au\n ---> David Pogue _Hard-Drive_; Diamond'93 $5, 304pp____________ 1-55773-884-X\n (*programmer dies in accident, leaves no documentation \\\n behind; software firms fight for market share with virii; \\\n \"right out of the pages of MacWorld\" --Steve Brock)\n Richard Powers _The Gold Bug Variations_; Morrow '91, (famous molecular \\\n scientist ponders on the ?why? of love, life in EDP dept.)\n Paul Preuss _Human Error_; (nanotech computer infects brain-damaged kid)\n Thomas J Ryan _The Adolescence of P1_; ACE'79_______________ 0-671-55970-2\n (runaway AI experiment takes over mainframes, wrecks havoc)\n Bruce Sterling _The Difference Engine_; (with W Gibson) Bantam'91; finger \\\n \"books=The_Difference_Engine%danny\"@orthanc.cs.su.oz.au\n Cliff Stoll _The Cuckoo's Egg_; (non-fiction but reads like one); review\n FTP ; /mac/tidbits/1991/tb048_18-Mar-91.etx\n Tom T Thomas _ME_; (\"smart computers\")\n Vernor Vinge _Across Realtime_; Baen Books_____________ [several titles \\\n Vernor Vinge _Tatja Grimm's World_; Baen Books__________ soon available \\\n Vernor Vinge _The Witling_; Baen Books___________________ as Millennium \\\n Vernor Vinge _Threats and Other Promises_; Baen Books_____ Books in UK]\n Vernor Vinge _True Names & Other Dangers_; Baen Books'87___ 0-671-65363-6\n Vernor Vinge _A Fire Upon The Deep_; Tor Books, 640p, $6___ 0-8125-1528-5\n (\"essentially about the future of the Internet\")\n John Varley _Press Enter_; (\"Short story, gruesome, but good\")\n Ed Yourdon _Silent Witness_; (\"Computer crime caper story; gumshoe \\\n has to explain intricacies of computer OS to girlfriend\")\n Herbert W Franke _Das Zentrum der Milchstrasse_; (\"the center of the galaxy\")\n Herbert W Franke _Letzte Programmierer_; (\"'the last programmer'; \\\n I do NOT mean Frank Herbert!\")\n Emil Zopfi _Computer Fuer 1001 Nacht_; Limmat Verlag, Switzerland\n Emil Zopfi _Jede Minute Kostet 33 Franken_; (last 4 in German; last 2 \\\n \"set in the commercial computing world of the early 70's\")\n -----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n current version of this list via `finger \"scip+fi%danny\"@orthanc.cs.su.oz.au'\n -----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n compiled 930424; % mail -s \"additions/ comments/ updates --->\" ianf@random.se\n ================ ============================================= ==============\n\n\f\n\n Statistical breakdown\n--------------------------\n +-- --------------------- SciP+Fiction -----+------------+------------------+\n | # nominations /title ~~~~~~~~~~~~ /author # books nominated |\n +-- =========== ----------------------------+ =========== ================= +\n | 5 _The Adolescence of P-1_; Ryan | Vinge 10 6 titles |\n | 5 _Neuromancer_; Gibson | Gibson 10 5 titles |\n | 4 _True Names and Other Dangers_; Vinge | Ryan 5 _The Adolescence..|\n | 4 _Shockwave Rider_; Brunner | Brunner 4 _Shockwave Rider_ |\n | 4 _When H.A.R.L.I.E was One_; Gerrold | Gerrold 4 _When H.A.R.L.I.E.|\n | 4 _A Fire Upon The Deep_; Vinge | Hogan 3 3 titles |\n | 2 _Threats and Other Promises_; Vinge | Lem 3 _Fiasco_HMV_Solar.|\n +-- ----------------------------------------+ ----------- ----------------- +\n | # total nominations: 85; authors: 27; female: 5?6; sent in by: 42 readers |\n +======== ================ ============ ============ =======================+\n\n\n Contributions by [unsorted FIFO]:\n----------------------------------------\n From: sbrock@teal.csn.org (Steve Brock)\n From: \"John Lacey\" \n From: malloy@nprdc.navy.mil (Sean Malloy)\n From: thom kevin gillespie \n From: Paul Christopher Workman \n From: kellys@code3.code3.com (Kelly Sorensen)\n From: whughes@lonestar.utsa.edu (William W. Hughes)\n From: North_TJ@cc.curtin.edu.au (Tim North)\n From: LORETI@FNAL.FNAL.GOV (Maurizio Loreti)\n From: Stephen Hart \n From: Duane F Marble \n From: Matthias Neeracher \n From: Wolfram Wagner \n From: webb@tsavo.HKS.COM (Peter Webb)\n From: setzer@ssd.comm.mot.com (Thomas Setzer)\n From: kevles@acf3.NYU.EDU (Beth Kevles)\n From: dp@world.std.com (Jeff DelPapa)\n From: rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires)\n From: hartman@uLogic.com (Richard Hartman)\n From: Vernor Vinge \n From: Paul Lebeau \n From: \"Lawrence Rounds\" \n From: phydeaux@cumc.cornell.edu (David Weingart)\n From: chgs02@vaxa.strath.ac.uk (By learning+courtesy)\n From: Rowan Fairgrove \n From: peterc@suite.sw.oz.au.sw.oz.au (Peter Chubb,x114,6982322,3982735)\n From: Gara Pruesse \n From: russell@alpha3.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Russell Schulz)\n From: ahm@spatula.rent.com (Andreas Meyer)\n From: jon@cs.washington.edu (Jon Jacky)\n From: eugene@nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)\n From: \"A.M.MAIR\" \n From: mengel@dcdmwm.fnal.gov (Marc Mengel)\n From: Roger Scowen \n From: kevino@clbooks.com (Kevin Oster -- System Administrator)\n From: chavey@cs.wisc.edu (Darrah Chavey)\n From: Vonda McIntyre \n From: Bruce Sterling \n From: \"Scott Thomas Yabiku\" \n From: Thomas Adshead \n From: Paul Andrews <76050.161@CompuServe.COM>\n ===== ======================================= ---------> MUCHO thanks to all!\n", "\n\nHEAR HEAR!!!\n\n\nREALLY? i thought that the reason it was 42 was that it is REALLY 24, but\nwritten as 42 so that on Intel chips you could get the proper value :)\n\n-pete\n\nhelp stomp out the endian wars... break some eggs on their sides!\n", "\nFeeding frenzy!!!\n\nAh, 'tis April in rec.moto and the newbies are bitin'! Catch all you want,\nwe'll make more!", "\n\n\tPeople took this article seriously? I mean, I know it's the\nNet and all, but the prankster didn't even have Clinton's sound-bites\nright.\n\n", "\n\nEjon Matejevic who was a full professor at Clarkson University, last\nI heard, developed the process for sticking Teflon to metals.\n\nI don't think it was a NASA project, cuz i heard he held the patent\non it, and had made quite a bundle off it.\n\nAnyone from Clarkson know the Exact story. I never wanted to ask\nhim myself.", "I am looking for some information about 3D animation stations that\nare currently on the market. The price of the station can be from 5K-20K, \nbut no more than $20,000.00. Type of workstation doesnt matter (PC, MAC, \nSGI etc..) . If you use or have bought/looked at one or can suggest your\ndream machine, then please mail me your configurations. I need the following.\n\n\t1. Type of station (PC, MAC etc.. )\n\t2. Expandibilty of the machine.\n\t3. Software that can run on it\n\t4. VTR Controller and/or VTR deck model/name.\n\t5. Vendors names and numbers.\n\nThanks in advance.", "\n Don't be ridiculous, Kaldis. I suggest you give the \"Ugly American\"\nconcept, which I can easily see you demonstrating, a good hard second look.\n\n\n Dear God. Didn't this die out in the fifties with McCarthy and the\nblacklists?\n\n\n Didn't your mother ever teach you not to generalize? I am a Canadian, and\nI stand up for _too many_ things with _too much_ certitude. \n\n\n Uh huh. This must explain the world reknowned, record low American crime\nrate. I see now, it's all becoming so clear to me.\n\n\n No he hasn't.\n\n\n Remarkable audacity and misguidance. What you take for your own courage,\nsir, is nothing more than simple loud-mouthedness coupled with unrestrained\nbragging.\n", "------------------------------------", "\n\nMay we interpret this as an offer to volunteer as editor for a\n\"Copy protection FAQ\" ? I am quite sure that I am not alone welcoming such\nan initiative! *I* will volunteer to ask some of the questions, if you will\nprovide the answers :-)", "Gotta pay my WELL bill - eating is of mere passing interest in\ncomparison.\n\nKAWAI K-4 Synthesizer for $400 IF YOU ACT NOW - cash only pleeze,\ntake delivery in Berkeley. CALL (510) 287-5737 and leave name\nand number for me to call back and arrange this MARVELOUS FEAST.\nOFFER EXPIRES SOON (how soon? Soon - believe it.)\nACT NOW.", "\nEvidence given for her prostitute status, besides the admittedly \nquestionable claim of the man on trial included:\n\n1. Prior employment in a number of massage parlors, with women who\nclaimed that she worked as a prostitute;\n\n2. Walking around a truck stop at 4:00 AM wearing a lace miniskirt,\na halter top, and no underwear of any sort;\n\n3. Not having a purse or other I.D. with her.\n\nNot enough to convict her, but enough to create reasonable doubt\nwhether a rape actually took place, or theft of services.\n\nAre you just ignorant, or lying again?\n\n\nThe accounts on the evening news indicated that they claimed self-\ndefense, and the judge agreed that they were so operating.\n", "\n\n\n\nIssued by Khomeini it shouldn't be relevant to anyone. But issued\nby an honest and learned scholar of Islam it would be relevant to\nany muslim as it would be contrary to Islamic law which all muslims\nare required to respect.\n\n\nAnyone sufficiently well versed in Islamic law and capable of reasoning,\nif you are talking about a weak sense of \"excuse.\" It depends on what \nsense of \"excuse\" you have in mind.\n\n\n\nOnly someone who thinks my opinion is important, obviously.\nObviously you don't care, nor do I care that you don't care.\n", "\n\n\n\nSounds great. But how would something like this be done? Start up a\nnews group for discussions of things like lobbying tecniques and how to\nget non-computer geeks as pissed-off as we are?", "\n\tJesus was born a Jew. We have biblical accounts of\nboth his mother's ancestry and his father's, both tracing back\nto David. It seems reasonable to assume, therefore, that Jesus\nwas Semitic.\n\tAs an interesting aside, Jesus' being semitic makes him\nneither \"white\" nor \"black,\" and in some sense underscores the\npoint made earlier that his color was not important, it was his\nmessage, his grace, and his divinity that we should concentrate\non.\n\tFinally, I would direct anyone interested in African\ninvolvement in the church to the account of the conversion of\nthe Ethiopian eunuch in Acts chapter 9 (I think it's chapter\n9). This is one of the earliest conversions, and the eunuch,\ntreasurer to the queen of the Ethiopians, was definitely\nAfrican. Because \"Ethiopia\" at that time indicated a region\njust south of Egypt, many also speculate that this man was not\nonly the first African Christian, but the first black Christian\nas well. \nGod bless,\nCharles Campbell\n", " \n(Deletion)\n(rest deleted)\n \nThat's a fallacy, and it is not the first time it is pointed out.\nFor one, you have never given a set of morals people agree upon. Unlike\na football. Further, you conveniently ignore here that there are\nmany who would not agree on tghe morality of something. The analogy\ndoes not hold.\n \nOne can expect sufficiently many people to agree on its being a football,\nwhile YOU have to give the evidence that only vanishing number disagrees\nwith a set of morals YOU have to give.\n \nFurther, the above is evidence, not proof. Proof would evolve out of testing\nyour theory of absolute morals against competing theories.\n ", "\tYou have underlined here the battle that must be fought. It is\n\ta battle for the \"hearts and minds\" of the american public.\n\tPeople must realize that the government is not their a fit\n\t\"father confessor\". The government does not have a right to\n\tshare our every thought the moment we decide to share that\n\tthought with someone else at a distance. In order to protect\n\tourselves from a government bent on undermining the constitution\n\twe must realize that our government is our enemy as much if not\n\tmore than the Soviet Union ever was. This is hard for \n\tsome people who have been brought up with loyalty to our government\n\tcast as being synonmous with patriotism. \n\n\tWe must be vigilant and make sure that we do not let such\n\tevents go by unprotested. We must be willing to fight the\n\tgovernment at every step of the way. \n\n\tIts time we rolled back this nonsense. Civil forfeiture is\n\tthe most effective end run around the constitution that has\n\tever been promulgated. Our enemy used to be the Soviets now\n\tit is clearly our own government. \n\n", "\n: Tsk, tsk, tsk. Another newbie bites the dust, eh? They'll learn.\n\nNewbie. Sorry to disappoint you, but as far as the Internet goes I was\nin Baghdad while you were still in your dads bag.\n\nMost of the people who made this group interesting 3 or 4 years ago\nare no longer around and I only have time to make a random sweep\nonce a week or so. Hence I missed most of this thread. \n\nBased on your previous postings, apparently devoid of humour, sarcasm,\nwit, or the apparent capacity to walk and chew gum at the same time, I\nassumed you were serious. Mea culpa.\n\nStill, it's nice to see that BNR are doing so well that they can afford\nto overpay some contractors to sit and read news all day.\n\n", "\n Son of the Return of the \"How much does Americans know about the rest of\nthe word?\"-flamewar anyone?\n\n-bertil-", "WHile we are on the subject of the shuttle software.\n\nwhat ever happened to the hypothesis that the shuttle flight software\nwas a major factor in the loss of 51-L. to wit, that during the\nwind shear event, the Flight control software indicated a series\nof very violent engine movements that shocked and set upa harmonic\nresonance leading to an overstress of the struts.", "I was just wondering one thing, actually two. ( I hope that this is the\nproper place to post this subject)\n\n Why does a lead acid battery discharge and become dead (totally unuseable)\nwhen stored on a concrete floor? \n I decided to bring the battery in from the lawn mower and the motorcycle\nfrom the unheated garage this year, *to preserve them* and I just\nwent to use them and noticed that not only do they not work, but \nthey act like the two terminals are shorted. I asked a friend\nand he said that you should never do that, 'cause it ruins them,\nbut he couldn't tell me why.", "\nWe used to have a tax in Greece named after the Queen's Mother. The Queen\nleft (Monarchy was abolished) but the tax stuck...\n\nSimilar single purpose taxes have stuck (i.e. to help the victims of \nthe earthquake of 19XX, build the Metro)\n\nObMoralConclusion: next time someone proposes a car tax or gasoline tax\npromising it's temporary, it AIN'T. \n\nSpiros", "\nI believe that Apple, Sun and a number of other desktop machine\nmanufacturers have agreed with the government to incorporate\npower-saving techniques; this is also something that governments in\nother countries are likely to require in the future, so expect to see\nit. This may include the ability for the system to fully power down\nthe monitor, via a controllable power outlet, and power it back on\nautomatically. (Is this a \"sell\" on screen saver software companies?)\n\nGoals for \"idle\" power consumption have been set at something like 30\nwatts for the system, not including the monitor (? don't quote me on\nthis).\n\nNote that in many businesses, the savings will be substantial,\nespecially if you factor in reduced load on air conditioning systems.\nSun did a study that indicated that simply powering off monitors for\nthe night would save the company (Sun itself) on the order of $1M per\nyear. Putting other (and automatic) power-saving features in would\nprobably have greater than double that value.\n\nGiven that we are seeing more and more reason to leave our work and\nhome computers on (getting faxes, automatically getting email, ...),\nbuilding power consumption control into all machines has a potential to\ncut ~2% off the national power consumption, based on data I heard.", "\nCS \"tear-gas\" was used in Vietnam because it makes you wretch so hard that\nyour stomach comes out thru your throat. Well, not quite that bad, but\nyou can't really do much to defend yourself while you are blowing cookies.", "\n\n\nThe whole point is, maybe everyone _doesn't want_ to participate.\n\n[...]\n\nBlindly opposing everything with a flavor of religion in it that is\nsupported by taxpayer money is the only way to keep christianity from\nbecoming the official U.S. religion.\n\nNot noticing that danger is utterly idiotic.\n\n", "Concerning the proposed newsgroup split, I personally am not in favor of\n doing this. I learn an awful lot about all aspects of graphics by reading\n this group, from code to hardware to algorithms. I just think making 5\n different groups out of this is a wate, and will only result in a few posts\n a week per group. I kind of like the convenience of having one big forum\n for discussing all aspects of graphics. Anyone else feel this way?\n Just curious.\n\nI disagree. You could learn the same amount by reading all the\nsplit groups, and it would make things easier for those of us\nwho are less omnivorous. There is no \"waste\" in creating news\ngroups -- its just a bit of shuffling about. I have no problem\nwith only a few posts per week per group - I spend too much time\non this as it is.", "\nDamn, you're dead right! That pretty much settles it. Not to worry.\n\n-- \n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nJohn Hesse | A man, \njhesse@netcom.com | a plan, \nMoss Beach, Calif | a canal, Bob.", "\n > Mary at that time appeared to a girl named Bernadette at\n > Lourdes. She referred to herself as the Immaculate Conception.\n > Since a nine year old would have no way of knowing about the\n > doctrine, the apparition was deemed to be true and it sealed\n > the case for the doctrine.\n\nBernadette was 14 years old when she had her visions, in 1858,\nfour years after the dogma had been officially proclaimed by the\nPope.", "\nOh, yes he did. You may not agree with his premises, and what he proved may\nnot apply to \"reality\" (if such a thing exists), but he certainly proved\nsomething.\n\n\nGot it in one. Similarly, a moral relativist will not judge one moral system\nto be better than another in every possible circumstance. This does not,\nhowever, preclude him from judging one moral system to be better than another\nin a specific set of circumstances. Nor does it preclude a set of moral\nrelativists from collectively judging a moral system, from some set of\ncircumstances which they all agree they are in.\n\n\nEh? Could you explain this? Which \"that statement\" are you talking about?\n\n\nI still don't quite see what you're trying to say. I assume by \"values\" you\nmean moral values, yes? In which case, what do you mean by \"real\"? What is\na \"real\" moral value, as opposed to an unreal one?\n\n\nSorry, but in what way is it an infinite regress? It looks extremely finite\nto me.\n\n\nSorry, but that's not so. I can provide a justification for asserting that\nthe moral system of the terrorist is inferior to that of the man of peace. I\njust can't provide a justification which works in all possible circumstances.\n\nSimilarly, I can provide a justification for asserting that bullets move\nfaster than snails. That justification won't hold in all possible frames of\nreference, but it will hold in almost all the frames of reference I am ever\nlikely to be in.\n\n\nI don't think I agree with this. My saying it *does* make it so *from my\npoint of view* and according to *my premises*, unless the argument is invalid.\nIt may indeed not make it so from your point of view, but I never claimed\nthat it did. In fact, I don't even claim that you exist enough to have a\npoint of view.\n", "\nHmmm... Interesting. What do you mean by WALKING distance? I lived in\nMoscow for 21 years, and if I am 5 minutes walk to Belorusskaya\nsubway station, I CANNOT be walking distance to Kremlin. Unless\n1 hour of walking is what you mean. By the way, what is\nthe price? I may plan a trip there (not sure yet, though) in\nlate summer.", "I heard a great Civil War story... A guy on the battlfield is shot\nin the groin, the bullet continues on it's path, and lodges in the\nabdomen of a female spectator. Lo and behold....\n\nAs the legend goes, both parents survived, married, and raised the child.\n", "Excuse me but I do know what I safety is supposed to do. It's basic purpose -\nnot to let the gun fire until you're ready. Christ, I've known that since I\nhad my first Crosman air gun. You don't know me so don't make assumptions\nabout what I know and don't know. I do know that the Glock has multiple\nsafties from reports, looking at them at a gun shop, and friends who own one.\n\nFrom the things I have read/heard Glocks are always knocked because of the\ntrigger safety. They are supposedly harder to learn to use properly. Every\narticle that I have read can't be wrong about the damn thing. And don't ask\nme to quote my sources because I don't keep a ton of gun magazines and/or\nrec.guns articles laying around. Boy, you can't make a simple statement on\nhere without someone getting right on your ass. No wonder why there are so\nmany problems in the world. Everyone takes everything just a little too\nseriously. By the way, I'm not going to reply to any of this stuff anymore as\nsomeone made the good point that this discussion is getting too close to r.g\n(And yes I know that I had something to do with that).", "I have two books, both NASA Special Publications, on the Voyager \nMissions. One is titled \"Voyages to Jupiter\" the other \"Voyage to Saturn\" \nThese were excellent books put together after the encounters with each \nplanet. \n\nThe question is: Did NASA ever put together a similar book for either the \nUranus encounter or Neptune? If so, what SP number is it and where can it \nbe obtained? If not, why didn't they?\n", "\n\nI know it was used several times in the south, to prosecute the murders of\nblacks, after all white juries had cleared the accussed.\n\n\nI believe it is a general charge, that is no specific right is mentioned.\n\n\nThe SS has previously ruled that since the seperate governments were in\nessence seperate sovereigns, then double jeopardy does not apply.\n\n(If this is true, then could defendents also be tried under city and\ncounty governments?)\n\nThis mornings paper said that the ACLU has decided to reinstate its\nopposition to this kind of thing. They had earlier suspended their\nopposition while they examined the King case. There might be hope\nfor the ACLU after all.", "\nI am not quite so sure about the illegality of using a regular American phone\non your home system. I vaguely remember a few years ago, when \"Deutsche\nBundespost\" split into Postdienst, Postbank, and Telekom there was some\ndiscussion about a new regulation. I know that cordless or cellular phones\nstill have to be approved by the Telekom, but does that hold true for regular\nphones? In my areacode in Germany (2234 - Frechen, near Koeln) you can use\ntouch-tone dialing. I assume, however, that most areas are still exclusively\nset to pulse dialing. Last time I checked (Jan '93) the Cologne areacode 221\nwas still solely pulse dialing.\n\nBTW, touch tone does become more common in Germany, bringin with it the\nflourishing of 1-900 services (in Germany 0190). I just hope we'll all have\nISDN some time at an affordable price - idle wishes...\n\nMarkus Iturriaga \n \"Things go smoother with lard!\"\niturriag@utkvx.utk.edu \"Bring back the glory that was grease!\" \niturriag@utkvx.bitnet -East Tennessee Lard Advisory Council \n\n MILLARD FILLMORE LIVES! ", "\nCareful now folks... Also consider the 90VAC+ @20Hz that is forced on ring\nand tip when the phone's supposed to ring! Even with a simple zener\nand LED setup, you might end up with some carbon real quick. Whatever\nscheme you use, make sure you've got at least 200V-rated components on \nthe frontend.\n\nAlso remember that, if I'm not mistaken, the phone line is a 600ohm\nequivalent circuit. Any current you draw from the 48V or so gets\ndropped across that 600ohms. That's fine until you're down to roughly\n12V, when Ma Bell considers it to be off-hook. But dropping it that\nfar down is probably a big no-no.\n\nThe easiest implementation to accomplish the above??\n\n tip ------->|-----\\/\\/\\/\\-----+----------+\n rectifier resistor | |\n diode | \\ \n V /\n zener /---/ \\ resistor\n | /\n | |\n | V LED\n | ---\n | |\n ring --------------------------+----------+\n\nThis is only a suggestion...go ahead and blow holes in it, but you\nget the idea. Choose a high-efficiency LED so you don't need much\ncurrent to get it to light up. Choose values for the other components\nas required.", "\tHate to mess up your point, but it is incredibly easy to learn how\nto make a nuclear weapon. The hard part is getting the radioactives to\nput in it. Have you ever read Tom Clancy's _The Sum of All Fears_? It\ndescribes in great detail how a Palestinian terrorist group constructed a\nnuclear bomb using stolen (actually found) plutonium, with some help from\nan East German nuclear physicist. For some non fiction, read Tom Clancy's\narticle _Five Minutes Till Midnight_. It shows how a terrorist group could\nconstruct a nuke using Neptunium, a low grade radioactive waste product\ndumped in toxic waste sites and forgotten about. He also claims information\non constructing a nuke is easily found in any large library. Sounds\nkind of scary, doesn't it? :-(\n\n\n\tDon't know whether you could get busted for warning of a speedtrap.\n\nDoug Holland\n\n-- ", "And the fox has rabies too.\n-- \nDave Feustel N9MYI ", "\n\nAnd thus, COINTELPRO, in which horrible people who threatened the\nrepublic by disagreeing with the Government were systematically kept\ntrack of for years...\n\n--\nPerry Metzger\t\tpmetzger@shearson.com", "\n\n\tIs the so-called material world \"outside\" the Kingdom of God?\n\t\n\n\tAha, animals are inferior, and humans are superior.\n\tHuh?\n\n\t[Isn't the desire to be superior so \"overwhelming?\"]\n\t[that humans constantly \"put down\" even innocent animals.]\n\t\n\n---raj", "\nOK, just for grins:\n- Kekule hypothesized a resonant structure for the aromatic benzene\nring after waking from a dream in which a snake was swallowing his tail.\n- Archimedes formalized the principle of buoyancy while meditating in\nhis bath.\n\nIn neither case was there \"no connection to prior theories, concepts, etc.\"\nas you stipulated above. What there was was an intuitive leap beyond\nthe current way of thinking, to develop ideas which subsequently proved\nto have predictive power (e.g., they stood the test of experimental\nverification).\n\npardon my kibbutzing...", "\n ##flame thrower on## \n Well I don't want my tax dollars going to that kind of philosophy. \n maybe if the good folks you are talking about are people like you \n than I might be inclined to accept it. What does the batf do anyway? \n Why don't we have a bureau for militant, paranoid, freedom killers \n like yourself. People like you are more dangerous than alcohol, \n tobacco and firearms. \n Maybe we should just have nuked the whole city, I mean, what's a \n 100,000 good souls anyway? \n Get real, you sound like a racist. I guess life isn't so precious \n to you, do you realize that there were 24 children KILLED!!! \n They will never get to fall in love, they won't see another sunrise, \n no prom, no first date, no football, baseball no NOTHING. Why doesn't \n some people think first before they let everyone know how narrow they \n are. ", "\nOur panel of judges has deliberated the question, and the answer is:\n\nSend the requester one copy, and then gang-FAQ yourself.", "\n\nChristian Slater, only gota cameo on ST6, \n\nand besides.\n\nMaybe she can't act:-)", "\nOr perhaps it's referring to the wife and child sitting\nin the sidecar next to the one-up on the\nmoto?\n\n:)\n\nAnyone ever heard of a game called oneup-onedown?\n\n(it's a drinking game, for all you older folx...:)\n\n\n", "\n\n\n\n\nThis may sound argumentative, but do the pro-homosexual crowd give the\nsame support to church members that are involved in incestuous relationships?\nIf we do a little substitution above, we get:\n\n\"although by no means all episcopalians are sympathetic to incestuous\nmen and women, there certainly is a fairly larget percentage (in my\nexperience) who are. I am good friends with an episcopalian minister\nwho is ordained and living in a monogamous incestual relationship. This\nin no way diminishes his ability to minister -- in fact he has a very\nsignificant ministry with the Incest association of his community...\"\n\nDo the same standards apply? If not, why not? And while we're in the\nballpark, what about bestiality? I can't recall offhand if there are\nany direct statements in the Bible regarding sex with animals; does that\nactivity have more or less a sanction?\n\nPlease avoid responses such as \"you're taking this to extremes\". I would\nguess that a disproportionate percentage of the inerrant Bible community\nviews homosexual acts with distaste in the same manner that society at\nlarge views incest.\n\n-- \n---------------------------------------------------------------------\nScott Cokely | (714) 833-4760 scott.cokely@nb.rockwell.com\t\t \n\"They came for the Davidians, but I did not speak up because\n I was not a Davidian. Then they came for me...\" Opinions expressed\nare mine and do not represent those of Rockwell.\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n\n[ Obviously you can replace homosexuality in the above statement by\nanything from murder to sleeping late. That doesn't mean that the\nsame people would accept those substitutions. The question is whether\nthe relationships involved do in fact form an appropriate vehicle to\nrepresent Christ's relationship to humanity. This is at least\n*partly* an empirical question. \n\nIn some cases types of human relationship have been rejected because\nover time they always seem to lead to trouble. I think that's the\ncase with slavery. One can argue that in theory, if you follow Paul's\nguidelines, it's possible to have Christian slaveholders. But in\npractice, over a period of time, most people came to the conclusion\nthat nobody can really have that degree of control over another and\nnot abuse it. \n\nThe message you were responding to was asking you to look at the\nresults from Christian communities that endorse homosexuality. (Note:\nChristian homosexuals, not people you see on the news advocating some\nextremist agenda). You may not want to base your decision completely\non that kind of observation, but I would argue that it's at least\nrelevant. You can't answer the request by asking why you shouldn't\nlook at the Incest association, because in fact there is no such\nassociation. If there were, it might be reasonable for you to look at\nit too. Of course that doesn't mean that the results of all such\nexaminations would necessarily come out the same way. Part of why\nthere aren't groups pushing all possible relaxed standards is that\nsome of them do produce obviously bad results.", "I'm looking for a copy of Friedman's Riverbank Publication No. 16 \"Methods\nfor the Solution of Running-Key Ciphers.\" Agean Park Press tells me that their\npublication C-23 \"The Riverbank Publications, Volume 1\" is out of print. Can\nanyone snail-mail me a photocopy of No. 16? If someone could it would be much\nappreciated.\n\nRegards,", " \n \n \n \n \n \nLater on, in your posting, you make reference to \"putting words\ninto other people's mouths\"...I would suggest that your last\nparagraph can only be interpreted in one way...namely, that I,\nalong with Greg, claim that Gainey never made a technical\nmistake. If you actually read what I've written, you will find\nthat I make no such claim...soooo, if logic serves me well,\nyou're contradicting yourself.\n \n \n \n \nRoger, I'm not sure here, but I think \"ignorance\" is really a\nfunction of \"a lack of knowledge\" and not \"formulating an\nopinion\"...but hey, if you need to take a cheap shot, then by all\nmeans go ahead...that's if it makes you feel better.\n \n \n \n \nMy word, such vehemence against poor ol' Bob Gainey. Why does\nhe bother you so much...he was an effective player for his style\nof play.\n \n \n \nI'm really sorry Roger, but you have lost me completely here. \nWhy don't you ask me if I would rather have Jesus Christ,\nhimself, in nets?\n \nNow, if you were to compare, say for example, Bob Gainey with Guy\nCarbonneau, you would have a balanced comparison.\n \n \n \nI'm wrong AGAIN...hmmm, let's see...where was I wrong in the\nfirst place? I'm only guessing here, Rog, but I have a feeling\nthat you've setup a \"You're wrong again\" macro key on your\nmachine.\n \nI agree that my use of the word plugger is simplistic...but I\nthink you know what I'm getting at. I would also like to point\nout that Gilmour's potential as a Selke-winner was never part of\nthe debate...are you asking me for an opinion? If so, I think\nthere are far too many other deserving players to include Gilmour\namong the candidates.\n \n \nI would suggest that your comment: \"And when the press runs out\nof things to say about the stars on dynasties they start to hype\nthe pluggers. Grant Fuhr, Essa Tikkannen, Butch Goring, Bob\nNystrom, Bob Gainey, Doug Jarvis, Derek Sanderson, Wayne Cashman,\nBob Baun, Bob Pulford, Ralph Backstrom, Henri Richard, Dick\nDuff...and so on...\" demonstrates a blanket disregard for these\nindividuals as contributors to the game...so yes, settle\ndown...nobody has claimed that they are hockey gods.\n \n \n \nC'mon...it has a nice ring to it...and admit it, you had a good\nlaugh.\n \ncongenially, as always,\n \njd\n \n--\nJames David\ndavid@student.business.uwo.ca", "\nFine. Libertarians and anarchists are not alone in being uncomfortable\nwith the use of state sponsored coercion. The notion that coercion can\nbe virtually eliminated in a society (or more properly that once it is\neliminated on the part of the state it is no longer worth serious \nconsideration) is a view that is peculiar to libertarians and anarchists. \n\nFor example, does \"non-initiated force\" (coercion) include tax collection?\nDoes it include the minimal level of regulation of commerce envisioned\nby Adam Smith? Since coercion can be exercised by actors other than the\nstate, how is the state to deal with it? Exclusively through after the\nfact arbitration/legal compulsion? \n\n\nWell, I must admit that the picture of libertarians as Amway participants\nis somewhat more reassuring than the idea of them trying to govern a \ncomplex, conflictual, industrial society. I'd venture to point out, \nhowever, that if libertarians couldn't convince at least 85% of a group \nof \"seminar participants\" to \"embrace\" their philosophy, their \npropaganda skills need to be honed. \n\nFrankly, however, it is no great trick to create a government for a \nsociety in which (almost) everyone is assumed to agree about what is a proper\ngovernment policy. Once that is assumed, all sorts of annoying formalities\ncan be dispensed with, elections, police, etc. And as Mr. Marx said,\nthe state will just wither away. \n\nOn the way there, however, would you like to explain how eliminating \nvirtually all policies that restrain private coercion in the \ncurrent society will help us to live happier lives? Or is it like\nsocialism; just some short-term pain that we'll have to bear until \neveryone has had the benefit of \"re-education\" through regular \n\"seminar\" training?\n\njsh\n", "\nIt would be nice if, as you rightly point out the inherent value of\nfreedom of speech, discussion would also deal with the all-to-\nfrequent ritualized abuses and distortions of that freedom that do \noccur. There are situations where a few extremely vocal, and \nusually radical, people **do** drive people away, effectively stifle\nall other (\"opposing\") views and generally \"take over\". *Clearly*,\nthe purpose behind such actions is *to deprive* others of *their*\nfreedom of speech through overt and covert coercion and domination of \nthe \"media form\" in question. While \"freedom\" of speech is to be valued, \nthis is not. How would you suggest that this sort of reoccuring problem be \nalleviated? More particularly, how can this be controlled within the \nstructure of these newsgroups?", "\n\n\n\nIt just goes to show that not all evangelical fundamentalists are pharisitical!\nI wear a black leather jacket, like classic rock, but no longer have the long\nlocks I once had. However, I too rely upon the Bible as a basis for Christian\nethics.", "stuff deleted...", "\nThe above article is a good short summary of traditional Christian\nteaching concerning the death of Mary. \nAlso very good is \"Re: Question about the Virgin Mary\" by Micheal D.\nWalker. He tells the story very well.\nI would like to add that in the Eastern Orthodox Church we celebrate \"The\nDormition (or falling asleep) of the Theotokos (the mother of God)\". The\nIcon for this day shows Mary lying on a bed surrounded by the Apostles\nwho are weeping. Christ, in his resurrected glory, is there holding what\nseems to be a small child. This is, in fact, Mary's soul already with\nChrist in Heaven. The Assumption of Mary is one more confirmation for us\nas Christians that Christ did indeed conquer death. It forshadows the\ngeneral resurrection on the last day. The disciples were not surprised\nto find Mary's body missing from the grave. She was the Mother of the\nSavior. She was the first of all Christians. She gave birth to the Word\nof God. If it were not for her we would not be saved. This is why we\npray in the Orthodox Church, \"Through the prayers of the Theotokos,\nSavior save us.\"", "\n\n\tGenerally the ship sinks (sorry, there's a picture of the\nUSS Iowa next to my desk).\n\n\n\tFirst, unless that round is chambered there is little threat of\npenetration by the bullet, or the brass for that matter. Unless that\nexpanding gas is held in an enclosed space you get a nice \"pop\" and not\nenough threat for even firefighters to worry about. Finally, it's\nrather simple to tell if a person was shot prior to being burned to\na crisp. See, by the time the ammunition went up those people were\nquite dead. Look for blood around the wound, particularly bruising.\n\n\tHowever, it's my contention that it makes little difference\nwhether they died from exploding ammunition or fire; the Feds seem\nto have shared responsibility for both.", "THE WHITE HOUSE\n\n Office of the Press Secretary\n\n____________________________________________________________________\nFor Immediate Release April 5, 1993 \n\n REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT\n EN ROUTE TO CAMDEN YARDS FOR ORIOLES OPENING DAY GAME\n\t \n MARC Train\n En Route to Camden Yards\n\n\n\n11:45 A.M. EDT\n\t \n\t Q\t Mr. President, what do you think of Jesse Jackson's \nprotest today?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: I think it's an informational protest. \nI think it's fine. The owners put out a statement few days ago, \nwhich they say was the first step in, you know, efforts to increase \nminority ownership and minority increases in management. I think we \nshould. I'm encouraged by Don Baylor's appointment out in Colorado. \nAnd I think it's time to make a move on that front. So, I think it's \na legitimate issue, and I think it's -- like I said, it's an \ninformational picket and not an attempt to get people not to go to \nthe game. So, I think it's good.\n\t \n\t Q\t Do you think they're moving fast enough?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: Well, I think that it was a good first \nstep. And I think you'll see some movement now. And I think it's an \nissue that deserves some attention, and they're obviously going to \ngive it some. And I think that Reverend Jackson being out there will \nhighlight the issue. So I think it's fine.\n\t \n\t Q\t Mr. President, how about the logjam in the Senate \non the economic stimulus plan? Do you think they'll be able to break \nthat and get cloture?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: I don't know, we're working at it. I \nmean, it's a classic -- there was an article in the paper today, one \nof the papers I saw, which pretty well summed it up. They said, you \nknow, this is a -- it's just a political power play. In the Senate \nthe majority does not rule. It's not like the country. It's not \nlike the -- it's not like the House. If the minority chooses, they \ncan stop majority rule. And that's what they're doing. There are a \nlot of Republican senators who have told people that they might vote \nfor the stimulus program but there's enormous partisan political \npressure not to do it. \n\t \n\t And, of course, what it means is that in this time when \nno new jobs are being created, even though there seems to be an \neconomic recovery, it means that for political purposes they're \nwilling to deny jobs to places like Baltimore and Dallas and Houston \nand Pittsburgh and Philadelphia and Portland and Seattle. It's very \nsad. I mean, the block grant program was designed to create jobs in \na hurry based on local priorities, and it's one that the Republicans \nhad always championed. Just about the only Democrat champions of the \nprogram were people like me who were out there at the grassroots \nlevel, governors and senators. I just think it's real sad that they \nhave chosen to exert the minority muscle in a way that will keep \nAmericans out of work. I think it's a mistake.\n\t \n\t THE PRESS: Thank you.", "\n But the \"values and systems that make the rich rich\" all basically\n amount to freedom of choice. \n\n In New England in 1800 the entire economy was based on the small family\n farm. Farm economy households were economically diversified, producing\n not only agricultural goods but also \"manufactured\" goods, especially \n cloth. Many farm women carded, spun, and/or wove, producing not only\n cloth for their own family but also to sell, generating extra income.\n\n But about this time the Industrial Revolution was underway in England\n and by the 1820's it had moved to the US, in both cases in the form \n of textile mills. These mills could produce cloth far more efficiently\n and cheaply than people at home. \n\n The result was that an important source of home income was wiped out\n and many of these women were compelled by economic circumstance to \n go to work in these same mills in Lowell, Mass, or Nashua, NH, where\n they worked 73 hour weeks in deafening, dangerous conditions, living \n regimented lives and being exposed to cotton-dust and infectious dis-\n eases due to the work.\n\n Now people didn't *HAVE* to buy the cheaper factory-made cloth. \n They were free to keep buying the home-made variety and support\n their local economy . . . \n\n\n . . . but (sorry for the cliche), \"it takes two to tango\". The big\n rich corporations achieved that wealth because we buy their stuff.\n It used to be the case that the business center of a town was also \n its social center. You KNEW the merchants you did business with \n or even local kids working behind the counter. You would see\n people on the street whom you knew and you could stop for a chat.\n\n Nowadays local merchants are going out of business and people shop \n at huge anonymous malls serving regional populations of hundreds of\n thousands or millions. You have no particular relationship with the\n companies you do business with, and feel no particular commitment\n to them, nor they to you. Major components of what defines a \"com-\n munity\" have been destroyed. On the other hand the products we buy\n at these malls are a lot cheaper due to economies of scale and foreign\n manufacture, and they are probably of better, or at least more consistent,\n quality.\n\n\n\n Don't blame the conservatives for this. Everyone makes their own\n individual choice and the liberals and the fence-sitters are just\n as guilty of pretending there are no social and cultural consequences\n to economic choices.\n", "\nPlease, please don't make Barney to a modern martyr/saviour mythical\nfigure. I detest this being, and if humans will create a religion in his\nname, then life will be unbearable :-).\n\nCheers,\nKent", "On Sat, 17 Apr 1993 20:42:58 GMT, Greg Hennessy observed:\n: #Tells you something about the fascist politics being practiced ....\n\n: Ah, ending discrimination is now fascism. \n\nIs that what they called it when Truman forced integration of the\narmed forces, despite the opposition of Congress and most of the\nAmerican public at that time?\n\n--\nMichael D. Adams (starowl@a2i.rahul.net) Enterprise, Alabama", "\nWhat I mean is what I said. \"What I want\" does not automatically\ntranslate into \"what I think is right.\" That is, it does not \ntranslate that way for me.\n\nIf you reply that \"I think it is ok to kill you because that is what \nI decided\" then what that means is that for you \"What I want\" does\ntranslate into \"what I think is right\".\n\nIt just doesn't translate that way for me.", "\nThis all would also implicate that in order for the sinning 2 month\nold baby to get forgivance, he or she has to ask for help from Jesus.\nSomehow I find this a little bit amuzing.\n\nCheers,\nKent", "imaginative?\n\n No, but at least it would be a theory.", "Who the hell is this guy David Davidian. I think he talks too much..\n\n\nYo , DAVID you would better shut the f... up.. O.K ?? I don't like \n\nyour attitute. You are full of lies and shit. Didn't you hear the \n\nsaying \"DON'T MESS WITH A TURC!!\"...\n\nSee ya in hell..\n\nTimucin.\n\n\n\n", "\nI hope there is not one- with a subject like this you just have a spiral. What\nwould then be a morality of a morality of morals. Labels don't make arguments. \nOne really needs a solid measuring stick by which most actions can be\ninterpreted, even though this would hardly seem moral. For example \"The best\nthing for me is to ensure that I will eat and drink enough. Hence all actions\nmust be weighed against this one statement.\" whatever helps this goal is\n\"moral\", whatever does not is \"immoral\"\n\nOf course this leads such a blank space: there are so many different ways to\nfulfill a goal, one would need a \"hyper-morality\" to apply to just the methods.\n\n\nSeems to me we only consider something moral or immoral if we stop to think\nabout it long enough :) On the other hand, maybe it is our first gut\nreaction... Which? Who knows: perhaps here we have a way to discriminate\nmorals. I don't instinctively thing vegetarianism is right (the same way I\ninstinctively feel torture is wrong), but if I thought about it long enough and\nlistened to the arguments, I could perhaps reason that it was wrong (is that\npossible!? :) ) See the difference?\n\n-- \n\n\nbest regards,\n\n--Adam", "Can anyone provide information on CS chemical agent--the tear gas used recently\nin WACO. Just what is it chemically, and what are its effects on the body?\n\ndsc@gemini.gsfc.nasa.gov \n | Regards, | Hughes STX | Code 926.9 GSFC |\n | Doug Caprette | Lanham, Maryland | Greenbelt, MD 20771 |", ": This figure, is far below all the other figures I have seen. If it\n: is indeed accurate, then how do you explain the discrepancy between\n: that figure, and other figures from international organizations?\n: Most figures I have seen place the hit ratio close to 70%, which is \n: still far higher than your 35%. Or does your figure say a bomb\n: missed if the plane took off with it, and the bomb never hit the target,\n: regardless of whether or not the bomb was dropped? Such methods\n: are used all the time to lie with statistics.\n\nAnswering the last sentence, claimed that they had a success rate of 80%\nwithout initially explaining, until pressed, that this meant that 80%\nof the aircraft came back having dropped their bombs somewhere, regardless'\nof whether they had hit the intended target, or indeed anything al all.", "\n\n\n\tI'd bet cash 90% of the people couldn't find the window after six\nminutes! Ask anybody who's taken basic training in the military. It is\nnot at all uncommon for a few soldiers who have not properly attached\nand cleared their masks to require assistance exiting the chamber. Since\nthat chamber has a door, not just a window, it's likely a hell of a lot\neasier to exit than a multi-room, damaged house.", "-> Does that mean that they're gonna bring back the Biscayne and Bel\n-> Air?\n\nOr how about the 210?\n\ngeorge.howell%goucher@wb3ffv.ampr.org", "Wanted: Summer sublet in NW DC, on red Metro line. Have own bedroom, but can\n share common areas with others. Apartment or room for $400 or less.\n Move in Memorial Day weekend through end of August. No smokers.", "\n\n\nIf Croats are now divided, it is because Croatia seceded from Yugoslavia.\nCroats in Croatia, B-H, and Serbia were in *one* country--Yugoslavia--\nuntil they divided themselves. \n\nIf Muslims are now divided, it is because B-H seceded from Yugoslavia.\nMuslims in Croatia, B-H, and Serbia were in *one* country--Yugoslavia--\nuntil they divided themselves.\n\nThat Croats and Muslims in Yugoslavia decided to divide themselves does\n*not* give them the right to divide Serbs in Yugoslavia.\n\nCroatia and B-H shoulder the burden for dividing their own nations among\nvarious unstable countries.", "\nThe fantasy was that he had found something of fundamental importance to\none of the hot questions of the day ('77). He really had very little\nreason to believe it, other than raw hope. By fantasy, I certainly don't\nmean Velikovskian manias.\n\n\nI'm not familiar with the history of this experiment, although, arguably,\nI should be.\n\n\nI think that it is enough if his contemporaries found the result surprising.\nThat's not what I'd quibble about. What I'd like to know are Toricelli's\nreasons for doing his experiment; not the post hoc _constructed_ reasons,\nbut the thoughts in his head as he considered the problem. It may be\nimpossible to know much about Toricelli's thoughts; that's too bad if\nit is so. One of Root-Bernstein's services to science is that he has gone\nrooting about in Pasteur's and Fleming's (and other people's) notes, and has\ndiscovered some surprising clues about their motivations. Pasteur never\npublicly admitted his plan to create mirror-image life, but the dreams are\nright there in his notebooks (finally public after many years), ready for\nanyone to read. And I and my friends often have the most ridiculous\nreasons for pursuing results; one of my best came because I was mad at\na colleague for a poorly-written claim (I disproved the claim).\n\nOf course, Toricelli's case may be an example of a rarety: where the\nfantasy not only motivates the experiment, but turns out to be right\nin the end.\n\nMark", "(reference line trimmed)\n\n\n[...]\n\n\nYes.\n\n\nWell, for example, the goal of \"natural\" morality is the survival and\npropogation of the species. Another example of a moral system is\npresented within the Declaration of Independence, which states that we\nshould be guaranteed life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You see,\nto have a moral system, we must define the purpose of the system. That is,\nwe shall be moral unto what end?\n\n\nWell, murder violates the golen rule, which is certainly a pillar of most\nevery moral system. However, I am not assuming that our current system\nand the manner of its implementation are objectively moral. I think that\nit is a very good approximation, but we can't be perfect.\n\n\nWell, \"objective\" would assume a system based on clear and fundamental\nconcepts, while \"arbitary\" implies no clear line of reasoning.", "\nonce upon a time, that's exactly what they would have done & everyone\ncould have just gone on living a peaceful (if well armed) life. what\nis it that makes people think they have the right -not- to just leave\nothers be?\n\njason\n", "\nGregg, you haven't provided even a title of an article to support *your*\ncontention.\n\n\nYou also have no reason to believe it *is* an anti-Islamic slander job, apart\nfrom your own prejudices.\n\n\nWhy, yes. What's a mere report in The Times stating that BCCI followed\nIslamic banking rules? Gregg *knows* Islam is good, and he *knows* BCCI were\nbad, therefore BCCI *cannot* have been Islamic. Anyone who says otherwise is\nobviously spreading slanderous propaganda.\n\n\nI see. If someone wants to provide references to articles you agree with,\nyou will also respond with references to articles you agree with? Mmm, yes,\nthat would be a very intellectually stimulating debate. Doubtless that's how\nyou spend your time in soc.culture.islam.\n\nI've got a special place for you in my...\n\f\n...kill file. Right next to Bobby. Want to join him?\n\nThe more you post, the more I become convinced that it is simply a waste of\ntime to try and reason with Moslems. Is that what you are hoping to achieve?\n", "[snip]....\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\tExcellent point, Mark. We should all remember that if Nixon\n\thadn't tried to cover up the misguided actions of some of his\n\tsubordinates in the Watergate burglary, the scandal would\n\tnever have brought down his presidency. So far, Klinton seems\n\tto be stonewalling this the same way Tricky Dick did. His whole\n\tcase seems to be \"we didn't do anything wrong\". However, if\n\tin the course of the investigation it turns out that the\n\tgov't DID do something wrong, and he tried to cover it up,\n\tthen that's an impeachable crime, I believe... \n\n\tPerhaps he is inadvertently cooking up his own scandal... Can you \n\tsay \"Wacogate\", little neighbor?... ;-)\n\n", "Tom Clancy omitted these key steps to try to prevent groups of people from\nbuilding a nuclear bomb. However, he asserts that you can find these key\nsteps in any university library. The main point of _Five Minutes To Midnight_\nis that it is impossible to prevent the proliferation of nuclear weapons,\nsince it has become easy to acquire the knowledge to build one, and fissible\nmaterials are nearly impossible to control. Read this article, or better\nyet, run to your library yourself and dig up some stuff on constructing a\nnuclear weapon.\n\nDoug Holland\n", "\nI wholeheartedly agree. Knowing that WE have let our law enforcement agencies\nseize our property against the Fifth Amendment of OUR Constitution tells me that\nwe are absolving ourselves of our responsibility for SELF-GOVERNANCE. WE have\nto take our government back from the self-serving politicians who create laws\nand rules only to better their positions within the government. WE have allowed\nthem to take too much power from the people of this nation. That situation has\nto be changed.\n\nAllowing the law enforcement agencies to use the seized property to pay-off drug\ninformants who lie and continue to deal in drugs is tantamount to making a pact\nwith the Devil himself. It's a vicious cycle. The law enforcement agencies are\nmotivated to seize property to fund their own activities. And having no easy\nway for the citizen to regain the property intact once taken gives even more\nincentive for the agencies to take property.\n\nIt's also interesting to note that two months ago Rush Limbaugh said that\nClinton would have the \"plumbers\" out in force shortly. Clinton and his\nhenchmen firmly believe in strong ubiquitous government control. Anytime a\nleader believes in that, the leader will use every means possible to retain that\ncontrol and take more.\n\nWE have to take OUR government back. Otherwise we will end up living in the\nequivalent of a high-tech third world dictatorship. We have to take\nresponsibility for ourselves, our personal welfare, and our actions.", "\n\nI heard he had asked the FBI to provide him with a word processor. Does\nanyone know if Koresh has requested that it be WordPerfect5.0? WP5.0 was\nwritten (and is owned) by Mormons, so the theological implications of\nrequesting (or refusing) WP5.0 are profound!", "\n[rest deleted...]\n\nYou were a liberal arts major, weren'tcha?\n\nGuess you never saw that photo of the smallest logo in the world--\n\"IBM\" made with noble gas atoms (krypton? xenon? I forget the\nspecifics).\n\nAtoms, trees, electrons are all independently observable and\nverifiable. Morals aren't. See the difference?\n\nTep", "I just wanted to point out, that Teflon wasn't from the space program.\nIt was from the WWII nuclear weapons development program. Pipes in the \nsystem for fractioning and enriching uranium had to be lined with it.\n\nUranium Hexafloride was the chemical they turned the pitchblend into for\nenrichment. It is massively corrosive. Even to Stainless steels. Hence\nthe need for a very inert substaance to line the pipes with. Teflon has\nall its molecular sockets bound up already, so it is very unreactive.\n\nMy 2 sense worth.", "# Mr Cramer-\n# \n# You are on one hand condemning the news media as;\n# \n# \"The Role of the National News Media in Inflaming Passions\" that\n# was your message subject I believe.\n# \n# Then you turn around and actually take; From the Santa Rosa (Cal.) Press-Democrat,\n# April 15, 1993, p. B2: \n# \n# Male sex survey: Gay activity low title.\n# \n# You even use such a title for the San Jose Mercury News- the Murky News.\n# \n# Now which is it? Are you going to comdemn national media, then turn around\n# and use it to support some position you present? Seems somewhat contradictory\n# doesn't it.\n\nIf you can show me that the Press-Democrat misrepresented the Guttmacher\nInstitute's study, do so.", "Archive-name: cryptography-faq/part01\nLast-modified: 1993/4/15\n\n\nFAQ for sci.crypt, part 1: Overview\n\nThis is the first of ten parts of the sci.crypt FAQ. The parts are\nmostly independent, but you should read this part before the rest. We\ndon't have the time to send out missing parts by mail, so don't ask.\nNotes such as ``[KAH67]'' refer to the reference list in the last part.\n\nDisclaimer: This document is the product of the Crypt Cabal, a secret\nsociety which serves the National Secu---uh, no. Seriously, we're the\ngood guys, and we've done what we can to ensure the completeness and\naccuracy of this document, but in a field of military and commercial\nimportance like cryptography you have to expect that some people and\norganizations consider their interests more important than open\nscientific discussion. Trust only what you can verify firsthand.\nAnd don't sue us.\n\nMany people have contributed to this FAQ. In alphabetical order:\nEric Bach, Steve Bellovin, Dan Bernstein, Nelson Bolyard, Carl Ellison,\nJim Gillogly, Mike Gleason, Doug Gwyn, Luke O'Connor, Tony Patti,\nWilliam Setzer. We apologize for any omissions.\n\nIf you have suggestions, comments, or criticism, please let the current\neditors know by sending e-mail to crypt-comments@math.ncsu.edu. We don't\nassume that this FAQ is at all complete at this point.\n\nArchives: sci.crypt has been archived since October 1991 on\ncl-next2.cl.msu.edu, though these archives are available only to U.S. and\nCanadian users. Please contact crypt-comments@math.ncsu.edu if you know of\nother archives.\n\nThe sections of this FAQ are available via anonymous FTP to rtfm.mit.edu \nas /pub/usenet/news.answers/cryptography-faq/part[xx]. The Cryptography \nFAQ is posted to the newsgroups sci.crypt, sci.answers, and news.answers \nevery 21 days.\n\n\nTable of contents:\n\n1 Overview\n\n2 Net Etiquette\n* What groups are around? What's a FAQ? Who am I? Why am I here?\n* Do political discussions belong in sci.crypt?\n* How do I present a new encryption scheme in sci.crypt?\n\n3 Basic Cryptology\n* What is cryptology? Cryptography? Plaintext? Ciphertext? Encryption? Key?\n* What references can I start with to learn cryptology?\n* How does one go about cryptanalysis?\n* What is a brute-force search and what is its cryptographic relevance?\n* What are some properties satisfied by every strong cryptosystem?\n* If a cryptosystem is theoretically unbreakable, then is it\n guaranteed analysis-proof in practice?\n* Why are many people still using cryptosystems that are\n relatively easy to break?\n\n4 Mathematical Cryptology\n* In mathematical terms, what is a private-key cryptosystem?\n* What is an attack?\n* What's the advantage of formulating all this mathematically?\n* Why is the one-time pad secure?\n* What's a ciphertext-only attack?\n* What's a known-plaintext attack?\n* What's a chosen-plaintext attack?\n* In mathematical terms, what can you say about brute-force attacks?\n* What's a key-guessing attack? What's entropy?\n\n5 Product ciphers\n* What is a product cipher?\n* What makes a product cipher secure?\n* What are some group-theoretic properties of product ciphers?\n* What can be proven about the security of a product cipher?\n* How are block ciphers used to encrypt data longer than the block size?\n* Can symmetric block ciphers be used for message authentication?\n* What exactly is DES?\n* What is triple DES?\n* What is differential cryptanalysis?\n* How was NSA involved in the design of DES?\n* Is DES available in software?\n* Is DES available in hardware?\n* Can DES be used to protect classified information?\n* What are \"ECB\", \"CBC\", \"CFB\", and \"OFB\" encryption?\n\n6 Public-Key Cryptography\n* What is public-key cryptography?\n* What's RSA?\n* Is RSA secure?\n* How fast can people factor numbers?\n* What about other public-key cryptosystems?\n\n7 Digital Signatures and Hash Functions\n* What is a one-way hash function?\n* What is the difference between public, private, secret, shared, etc.?\n* What are MD4 and MD5?\n* What is Snefru?\n\n8 Technical Miscellany\n* How do I recover from lost passwords in WordPerfect?\n* How do I break a Vigenere (repeated-key) cipher?\n* How do I send encrypted mail under UNIX? [PGP, RIPEM, PEM, ...]\n* Is the UNIX crypt command secure?\n* How do I use compression with encryption?\n* Is there an unbreakable cipher?\n* What does ``random'' mean in cryptography?\n* What is the unicity point (a.k.a. unicity distance)?\n* What is key management and why is it important?\n* Can I use pseudo-random or chaotic numbers as a key stream?\n* What is the correct frequency list for English letters?\n* What is the Enigma?\n* How do I shuffle cards?\n* Can I foil S/W pirates by encrypting my CD-ROM?\n* Can you do automatic cryptanalysis of simple ciphers?\n* What is the coding system used by VCR+?\n\n9 Other Miscellany\n* What is the National Security Agency (NSA)?\n* What are the US export regulations?\n* What is TEMPEST?\n* What are the Beale Ciphers, and are they a hoax?\n* What is the American Cryptogram Association, and how do I get in touch?\n* Is RSA patented?\n* What about the Voynich manuscript?", "\nI got several answers, the most complete was from Errol Crary \n(errolc@tv.tv.Tek.com):\n\n Thanks for your help\n\n Karsten\n-- ", "Is there a FAQ on Cyrix 486DLC? Could anyone please repost it or\nemail to me, if I missed it? Thanks in advance.\n \n\n... Alexander Poylisher, Internet: apoylis@inode.com; FidoNet: 1:2603/106", "\nCan't we move the political bickering to a more appropriate group?\n-- \nBrad Kepley Internet kepley@photon.phys.unca.edu\nWork-days Voice (704)252-8330", "This is a two-sided problem. Unfortunately our culture has been deteriorating over time.\nThe \"breeding\" of these low-life's is getting worse; our justice system is at best\nextremely weak to handle these problems. That is why low-abiding citizens should have\nthe power to protect themselves and their property using deadly force if necessary \nanywhere a threat is imminent.\n\nMy Camaro (my pride and joy) got stolen right out of my driveway a few years back.\nThe persons that did that were eventually caught (lucky for me!) but not before\nhaving trashed the car.\n\nOn another occasion, on my way from Texas to Florida, I had stopped in a small motel\nfor the night in a small town somewhere in Florida. About 5 youths were disturbing my\ncar, setting off the alarm and challenging me to come out. When I and another tenant\nwalked out with a 357 Magnum and a 45 automatic respectively, they vanished. \nNeedless to say, I immediately packed-up and left.\n\nWatch out for car-jacking and staged accidents. They can be deadly!", "Of course, I'd still recommend that Michael read _True and Reasonable_\nby Douglas Jacoby.\n\nJoe Fisher", " Analog SF magazine did an article on a similar subject quite a few\nyears ago. The question was, if an alien spacecraft landed in\nWashington, D.C., what was the proper organization to deal with it: The\nState Department (alien ambassadors), the Defense Department (alien\ninvaders), the Immigration and Naturalization Service (illegal aliens),\nthe Department of the Interior (new non-human species), etc. It was\nvery much a question of our perception of the aliens, not of anything\nintrinsic in their nature. The bibliography for the article cited a\nphilosophical paper (the name and author of which I sadly forget; I\nbelieve the author was Italian) on what constitutes a legal and/or moral\nperson, i.e., a being entitled to the rights normally accorded to a\nperson. The paper was quite interesting, as I recall.\n\n I think you'd have to be very careful here if the answer is yes. The\nhuman track record on helping those poor underpriveleged cultures (does\nunderpriveleged mean not having enough priveleges?) is terrible. The\nusual result is the destruction or radical reorganization of the\nculture. This may not always be wrong, but that's the way to bet.\n", ":>Steve, you're the one who suggested that a failed government should be an \n:>ideal proving ground, I never felt that way in the first place. Quite the \n:>contrary, I think a better proving ground would be someplace that already\n:>had a governemnt that would prevent outright acts of agression, yet had a\n:>strong spirit of individualism and initiative. Someplace like... Texas :-)\n:>\n:>Mr. Grinch \n: \n:\n: \n:And while Texas taxpayers might willingly eliminate tax-support for UT\n:and TAMU, I'm not sure they'd support gutting the football programs.\n:\nFootball can pay for itself.\n\n\n:Then there's the impact on Ross Perot's fortune of eliminating the various\n\nWhy? He's already made it. Sure nodoby else will be able to bilk\nthe public in the same specific ways, but why should he (or I) care?\n\n\n:All in all, Texas doesn't seem to be a very likely place for\n:libertarianism to take hold. :-)\nMore likely than most places. When I was there the most \"important\" \nstate issue was whether to have a state income tax or instead legalize\na popular vice for fund raising, and vice won a decisive victory!\n\n\nMr. Grinch", "part 2/2 of xrastool 1.0\n---cut here---\nM%]F+[P'R8G=KW'AQY!=@$L^-QJZJH]?1WBB=$022&X,B1)N#(7XL) !V;#HJ\nM')^.S /&'WB&Z0ASW#LB'M56V,:W5=PQ: 1?%\"_N%Q.$HT3+X\\-%O=0$B\"_J\nM'6=2*8 ,O0RE(\nM&DU@@3$'(Q@0!:#!XW1Q\\,!4FT4-8Z?QRP2ABA(,-_(5#0@VP&?\"P6%>X2#@\nM4;B%XD\"28.4J7IAVO!%*#%N!&L!2XQ50TU<+1#3> CU]$;_?E\"&QHNB]$2?U\nM(%@7#0C*R%VA/*\"-0AW:_>QE?T=SH_4Q3,/<>CGRF$Z.(T=X'H* [IC20Q!E\nM''F$],>^3^CQ_K@+S#\\&&[9VRP/&(P'2WKA[Q\"N.R>QX?9__8AZQ86CSV_=X\nM&).)(,: H8@1JEBXF2K^ \\V*\\D< I#(1K#@9O\"QZ!LN*C3O-W?]12#B\"5\"N&\nM%>F*6T4(EN#.<0=7G#^V(.6*+T@3)%DQLQA]O =^GJ:-H8&#X=J1I =G3 (:\nM S-]=49(CI'G-ZA.@J#A2E0QXD=8H[T,8.1)-!GM6D( YK.Y'UR.// %& C\\\nM$]( ; G+WIQG*;B%=,L%\"GAU84B3GB>P#,G0TB $=%IW(KHM&52OQ!B\"E /@\nMQ_!V=4B.'+HMW]>L^SSJ(>-?,DA%F<4QI9<%6D'>(:N\"*\\@_I'-0LA1Z=+8I\nM(IV =$&S61:H!DD;.$1&%B>*>D1C5Q=O\\!%R[#H^V\\ S3D#J7 ]RC*4P9!@J\nMT(**M2F23BH,H/4\"+-_Y43Z/1X)FV$#*/X@V\"'WH?>0O))WDH#JJ-3 >HC(6\nMMJID.R^56);L0@;T4DDIRS)2DQ]CI)L,Y-4B<,(I(^UD*Z_D )6+RNC6\\C==\nMGI98;#*Y0H51648GTT;^FY1E*\"]CERRR&46+9(3@2 )_\",CF@37R&#G86DT@V#TB/$LG^EA=K>1\"/U)-]\nMI+*1'T\\6J)/F1'&PU\nMCIAPJ\"U[6G^P*5F+?$KZJ2B3(\\E. 3.LZ7!6_#0M)?DX#H_.)#GG,[F-7$;V\nMR2Z3BTG-Y#2J')DK. RB43H/)0*_Y\"ARW_-?[\"%:#+V2<@*=3 ]Q^-9#1)7Y\nMRV1Y[R638TJ2[97;^H)=R3IE;2V@%V*KOF@&F'B!)C5>Q#)L9!.K&MF:E$=V\nM(P&31!O&U76R3Z:11#E. 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E8:+\nMAB.&F(:0AIN&DX95@I6&(H:-AB:&FH:2AKX!BC0NA@ ,(:R@S*&\"8:EAIV \nMS86_@#B&5(2JAH>\"K8:6A->%?(\"PAD&&VX7V%[.&WX7P0U4,N89'%+N&\\U[G\nMA>L:30/O&ATSPH9V \\2&QH8>AW47R(8Z\"#0 RX8AA[X!(X?/AMLZ0H 0AV.&\nMTH1L@(*&YH-BA&$ ;(1XAN^#,8#AFZ&.8 T(7I@@2'ZX(&A[@8\"(?4\nMA9J!]X0,AT2&%D3L#!*'1A04A\\L#O8:,A>\\:PT)1ALT9,H#X:Q^'@X?V&B6'\nM< U \"2'7(8\"1(B'*(=,*2J'PU&(A]2&\\H&A@[(92X\"5A^N!H8/D\"O6\"GX*:\nMAZF#GX*7AT.$E(>BAW6$G(>EAYN'EH>CAYB'J(>GAYZ'K(??@KU,DX>KAZJ'\nMLX>OAZZ'.0NEAT^' !1AUJ'\\X:1AEV'E(99A_*&F8:^A^Z&XH6?AL2%EH'\\\nMAJ6#_H9G@ \"'\\H1U@&F'78%KA^F\";8<+APB%KX)RA[*&Z!]?@PN %D0=#7>'\nM+Q1YARP!>X?K&C@4- % %'^'[86\"AX2'[(2AZN&3X3\\A].%*(7]AV2%_X?5A3T;YX8 .F&PH=4A[^'6(?QANN&\nM7(?%AY6&ZH;ZAL6%RH?)A06$9HU\nMAO.'A(5)AH:%ZVN)A66#%8>^AN:'/Q2T&1N'ME?KA^V'-(AT%^^'\\8=D(?.'\nM^86=A;Q_O@'YARZ$+8?[AYB$_(Z\"Q2(-(9EAZ:&9X=Y@-&'8H'3AUV!'8@_AMB'\nM!H4AB&$#(XA1@E9+X(73, M!D=AS6(?(B[\nM5U-99R%K9[TB(05DZU[UABH@ (H\"(C(@Q%5 \nM;RB]&&9>A\\#465G44-H(I:(GHAH\nM7&=YHHAZ5:-(CX?4)1A1I8@&2UT Y\":;B#A0EX@%9&2&>P (ADR#O8A3@[^(\nMP8@+A@F&4(/#B&U\"<06\\B(:&RH@OAX>&/8?,B,N(=(:!ALZ(TXA,AX6&SXB\"\nMAM*(U8C-B-J(;(;'B,H#R8CDAMZ&48'V@-^&08/AB.2(XXA&@]F&X(9#AD>#\nMZ(CBAH& WHAS0MN(0X?UB/2(1X?VB-\"(38=#A]F(A89*ATJ'SXC_B#>'_H@_\nMA_V(?X8\"B=R( HGRB$RAPV)M(>WA[:'G8>UAQ\")H(?B@J.'K8.FAZV'\nM&XD/B1V)%XD.B1&)'(DAB;6'>X 6B2:)J8<4B2F)(XFWAPN)R8AIA0*(0(-)\nMB$>(1HCQA#\") H,MB32)9H5:@S*).8DOB46$,XDWB7,+#(DZB3:)6(0!B$2(\nM.80\\B42).(E$B4B)9X5 B3Z)A8-0B2B#U#D]&SV)_X?5AL*(\"H:B@%F)PXB^\nMB%>#X89;B<6(:8%=B6*)7XE %G(ZY7&X=O@WV(>XE?%S>(B5&/B#F(^(<[B&\"&/8AP #^(E@1V@J&%38E3\nMB=J$0HA7B0\"(CHF+B8Z \"X).69*(NXA:B6N)38-EB9F)F(ESAV:)K8 MB6V)\nM\\$-$#G\"))!1RB1@S=(EP 76(0!29(,T9.!1[B'R)L8E+%(J'\\$/PAW^)6X;R\nMAX*)]8?>%?R%@HGZAXR)P(ECA9&)48F/B4J)+XF4B?94(2&7B5Z) H9FB9N)\nM9XF%V.#*(B:7BJ(XX=X 12 KE>S5T 4,P&P\nMB;*)YXF! 98+33^V&O1M!!C/,_-\\O0:6%ET93W1@\"M=JGW9=%;QRNW^&;*D\"\nMU %MB+DSCA=W!:5V)0J4%!9M-![Z\".46\\$,_ ,HS+!74?7X+F7]J$[(7-P8]\nM\"#]^#@8!= 1=?3%!&-<[+0FJ?\"0*84T#;ZT1V1K\\ 9( 1>'%WU. T.*'H0=&N:)Z(E+BGP!02)#.)B%3R)#.+N)JC!#.+^)\nMHH4M@Z2%-H/@A.R(>8'1@@\"\"7X5BA4^)CXG!B6**DHE\"@U> QH4OBD.&RX5,\nM@<^':(<:B$6(U(?QB#T; 8(WBB*(.8JUA@J(XH4]BNIKW8E8@LT#' %N 42*\nM88(\\7&\"\"DB!$A4R*B8J' T$B/SB4%TJ%PX2B(8V*)313BI(;DHHLAU6%1XED\nMBCN)F8ICBE2!MX(*@S^)R8.W@I:#3H3K@5V K87*AP>\"X88 AUF([HBBBG6 \nMI(I2@9^*&XB:BD6)M(54B72*/H$MB8J*O(J]BKZ*OXK BJ @]XCZB-:(U(C%\nMBDR'!HG$BL.*UXC&BMN(R8K,BMR(=X9,B>>(ZHC=AN^(KHI6@>V(88K4BAJ!\nMY8AQBMR*)H'IB$.#0HG)B &)/X?'BOF( (E)AP6)+H?KBON(PXH(B>B*^(A'\nMA\\^*18?GBO\"*-H=,B2>)((D6B1.)*XG^BOZ*^XH5B9=#;( BQJ)*HD\"BQZ)\nM_8H'B_^*L(>^@ F+'XD0B0:+$HEC $R)Q(EFBMJ&&(NVBK2*G8IY@A:+&XNU\nMBJ&*&HN0B2&+AH$?BTZ)%XL1A1V+*8M holding (_Boomer v.\n\n<*>Note: The New York Court of Appeals is the highest court in New York\n State. While the United States and 48 of the fifty states call their\n highest court \"Supreme Court,\" \"Supreme Judicial Court\" or \"Supreme\n Court of Appeals,\" Maryland and New York call theirs simply the\n \"Court of Appeals.\" To make matters worse, New York also calls its\n _second-highest_ court the \"Supreme Court, Appellate Division\"...\n\nAtlantic Cement Co._, 26 N.Y.2d 219, 257 N.E.2d 870 (1970)):\n\nOscar H. Boomer, et al., owned land near the Atlantic Cement company's\nplant near Albany, N.Y. (The fact pattern gives no information as to\nwhich came first, the plaintiff's acquisition of the land or he\ndefendant's start of production at their cement plant.) In the course\nof its regular operations, the cement plant did injury to the\nplaintiffs' property via dirt, smoke and vibrations emanating from the\nplant. The plaintiffs sought injunctive relief -- that is, they asked\nthe court to order Atlantic Cement to stop damaging their property.\n\n(Commentary: this seems entirely reasonable to me. Boomer at al owned\ntheir property and, presumably, a right to quiet enjoyment of it.\nAtlantic Cement's actions were depriving Boomer et al of that right.)\n\nInstead of granting the plaintiffs' request for an injunction, the court\nordered them to accept the damage being done to their property, provided\nthat Atlantic Cement paid them $185,000 in compensatory damages. In\nother words, the court granted Atlantic Cement Co., a private party, the\npower and authority to _take_ the plaintiffs rights to quiet enjoyment\nof their property by eminent domain. A taking by eminent domain is\nalways problematical even when it's done by the state; allowing a\nprivate firm to do it is, in my opinion, totally wrong.\n\n(Yes, I know, the _Boomer_ court didn't call it eminent domain. But if\nit walks like eminent domain and swims like eminent domain and quacks\nlike eminent domain...)\n\nLet me take issue with the way you've presented the case... you say that\n\"What happened in _Boomer_ was that the judge didn't allow the\nplaintiffs to blackmail the cement plant by demanding a multi-million\ndollar plant to be shut down over $185,000 in damages.\" Blackmail?\n\n (Pulls out Black's Law Dictionary, Abridged 5th Edition....\n \"Blackmail: Unlawful demand of money or property under threat to\n do bodily harm, to injure property, to accuse of crime, or to expose\n disgraceful defects. This crime is commonly included under\n extortion statutes.\")\n\nHow do you define as \"blackmail\" one party's act of demanding the right\nto set its own sale price for a unique piece of property which it owns\nand which another party has expressed an interest in buying? Or of\ndemanding the right not to sell that property at any price? As I see\nit, Boomer et al, having found themselves in the fortunate position of\nowning something which Atlantic Cement had to purchase if it wanted to\nstay in business, had every right in the world to set whatever price\nthey wanted. There isn't, or at least shouldn't be, any law that says\nthat you have to be a nice guy in your private business dealings.\n\nYou go on to say: \"The plant would never have been shut down -- the\nplaintiff's lawyers would have just negotiated a windfall settlement,\nbecause the plaintiffs would prefer an amount greater than $185K to\nhaving the plant shut down, while the plant would prefer any amount less\nthan the value of the plant to have the plant continue in operation.\"\n\nIf so, so what? Since when are the courts supposed to be in the\nbusiness of preventing parties from reaping windfall settlements from\nother parties when those settlements arise from wrongful acts by those\nother parties? If Atlantic Cement didn't want to have to face a choice\nbetween paying a windfall settlement or going out of business, well,\nshouldn't Atlantic Cement have thought of that before going _into_\nbusiness? (I note that as far as the facts show Boomer et al were _not_\nthe parties responsible for bringing about this situation -- that was\nAtlantic Cement's own fault for choosing to build and operate the type\nof plant they did where and when they did.)\n\nAnd then you say: \"Everyone's property rights were protected; the\nplaintiffs were made whole; unnecessary settlement costs were avoided.\"\nAs above, I dispute your claim that the plaintiffs were \"made whole.\"\nThey were, in fact, by court action deprived of their rights as owners\nof property to choose to sell or not sell that property at a price\nacceptable to them. And for that deprivation they were _not_ made\nwhole. And again I ask: Since when are the courts supposed to be in the\nbusiness of ensuring that \"unnecessary\" settlement costs are avoided?\n(If so, I've been miseducated -- I always thought that the courts were\nsupposed to be in the business of ensuring that justice is done.)\n\n\n(1) _Boomer_ is not being taught as \"infamous,\" at least not at my\nschool.\n\n(Aside: Northeastern Law usually does a very good job of hiring for\ntheir first-year, mandatory classes (such as Torts, where I first\nencountered _Boomer_) instructors who, regardless of their personal\nopinions, can and do teach the law neutrally. When the students get\ninto their second and third years, in which the students (a) can pick\nand choose which courses to take (except for the mandatory Professional\nResponsibility, of course) and (b) are presumed to be a bit more worldly\nand self-confident, less likely to be consciously or sub-consciously\nintimidated by Law School Professors and able to learn from openly\nbiased instructors rather than be indoctrinated by them, the instructors\ntend to be more open in expressing their own opinions. This is\nespecially true of part-time instructors who, in real life, are\npracticing attorneys or sitting judges... this can be _very_\neducational, sometimes far more so than being taught by a somewhat\ncloistered scholar. End of aside.)\n\nI called it infamous because that's my opinion of it. For the reasons\nI've stated above, I believe it to be a triumph of something that I can\nonly call \"economic correctness\" over justice.\n\n(2) It is \"completely sensible\" only if you believe that the alleged\nright of the owners of Atlantic Cement to stay in business and avoid\nlosing a lot of their own money due to their own wrongful act, and\nthe alleged right of several hundred Atlantic Cement employees to\nnot have their jobs disappear, should trump the rights of people who\nown property which was damaged by Atlantic Cement's wrongful acts.\n(And if you believe that it is correct for the courts (or any other\nbranch of government) to grant to private parties the right to take\nother people's property by eminent domain.)\n\n\nReally? I didn't know that... what, if anything, has he had to say\nabout cases like _Boomer_?\n\n\nI've admitted that my understanding of the field generally referred to\nas \"law and economics\" is weak. If it advocates the use of economical\nanalysis as one of many \"tie-breaker\" factors which courts may use to\nhelp them reach decisions in cases in which the dispute, as measured by\nthe scale of \"justice\", is evenly balanced, fine. But as illustrated by\n_Boomer_, it is _not_ fine when the courts start viewing the economics\nof a case as being more important than the justice of a case.", "ABOLISH CULTS!", "I've recently moved from Unix to a DOS box and have a number of files \nthat I used crypt to \"protect\". Does anyone know of a DOS version of \ncrypt? I've found one, but it insists on six letter keys and I used \nsome shorter ones. Thanks for your help. -- Doug\n", "\n\nThe name is a working name only; quite unofficial. The formal designation\nis 1993 FW.\n", "\n\nThese surviving witnesses being members of which cult pray tell ??\n\n\n\nWe were having a discussion about whether Bush would have done anything\ndifferently. On the basis of Panama, Grenada, Tripoli, Kewait etc we \ndecided that Bush would have asked for a surgical airstrike or used a \ncruise missile, some people suggested that he would have used the nuke\nwarhead cruise, others pointed out that he would be too cheap to use 'em.\n\nWhat was missing? Armoured vehicles! \n\n\n\nThe person who murdered 17 children was Koresh. He kept them there and \nbrought about their deaths deliberately.\n\nYou may consider that I am a complete bastard and a not very nice chap.\nThats quite true. I don't pretend to be. Being nice is what amateurs\ntry to do. If you want to talk politics you are talking hard decisions\nsuch as whether the lives of the troops should be risked attempting\nto rescue the children. Anyone who has held the office of President\nof the United States since FDR has held the threat that if the USA\nor its allies were to be threatened then the USA would risk nuclear \nHolocaust in order to protect freedom. Beleive it or not, that is not\nthe sort of threat that nice chaps make. Do they have a gun nutters\nsection of the US version of CND by any chance?\n\n\nThere are cases where society has to be protected from\nmadmen such as Koresh or Hitler. If it were not for the consideration\nof the 17 children in there the question of the tactics to be used would\nnot be a matter of anything but academic significance. It is not for\nthe govt to prevent people from commiting mass suicide.\n\nThe latest reports are that cult members were shot attempting to\nleave the compound by Koresh loyalists during the fire. If proven\nthat would entail the final nail in the coffin of those who want to\npromote Koresh as some sort of role model or hero.\n\n\nI need hardly add that it is Koresh that has created the Holocaust in\nthis case by the deliberate arson of the ranch appocalypse.\n\n", "This post has all the earmarks of a form program, where the user types in\na nationality or ethnicity and it fills it in in certain places in the story. \nIf this is true, I condemn it. If it's a fabrication, then the posters have\nhorrible morals and should be despised by everyone on tpm who values truth.", "\n\nSure nails can be cruel. I'd imagine nails in your eyes would be\n*very* painful. But, this does not imply that a painless death is\ncruel, which is what you are supposed to be trying to show.", "\nWhere I live, I use BCTEL. The number to dial is 211 for the same result.\n", "\n\n(Pleading mode on)\n\nPlease! I'm begging you! Quit confusing religious groups, and stop\nmaking generalizations! I'm a Protestant! I'm an evangelical! I don't\nbelieve that my way is the only way! I'm not a \"creation scientist\"! I\ndon't think that homosexuals should be hung by their toenails! \n\nIf you want to discuss bible thumpers, you would be better off singling\nout (and making obtuse generalizations about) Fundamentalists. If you\ncompared the actions of Presbyterians or Methodists with those of Southern \nBaptists, you would think that they were different religions!\n\nPlease, prejudice is about thinking that all people of a group are the\nsame, so please don't write off all Protestants or all evangelicals!\n\n(Pleading mode off.)\n\nGod.......I wish I could get ahold of all the Thomas Stories......", ": At the risk of beginning a cascade, I'll start with a possibly cheesy\n: good 'ol Uhmericun:\n\n: \"Our shield is freedom\"\n\nOr, considering what our government has been doing for the past 50 years,\nperhaps this would be more appropriate:\n\n \"100% Debt\"\n\n--", "Stuff deleted\n\nI reiterate that I would agree with you that there is little\njustification for the punishment of apostasy in the Qur'an.\nIn Islamic history, as well, apostasy has rarely been punished. \nBelief is considered a matter of conscience and since there\nis to be no compulsion in the matter of belief, apostates have\nbeen generally left to believe or not believe as they will.\n\nHowever, when an apostate makes attacks upon \"God and\nHis Messenger\" the situation changes. Now the charge of\napostasy may be complicated with other charges - perhaps \ncharges of sedition, treason, spying, etc. If the person \nmakes a public issue of their apostasy or mounts public\nattacks (as opposed to arguement) against Islam, the\nsituation is likewise complicated. If the person spreads\nslander or broadcasts falsehoods, again the situation\nchanges. The punishments vary according to the situation\nthe apostate is in. Anyhow, the charge of aggravated\napostasy would only be a subsidiary charge in Rushdie's case.\n\nThere is a distinction in the Qur'an between a formal war situation\nand being in the situation where someone unilaterally\nwages war (by their actions), creates disorder, makes mischief,etc. \nagainst the Muslims and creates a situation that results in harm \nto Muslims. Here, a small group or even a single individual could\nbe said to be engaged in such a practise. In other words, there is\na clear difference between a formal war situation (where two\nclearly defined parties wage war, conclude treaties, exchange\nprisoners, etc.), and dealing with attacks that come from isolated\nindividuals or groups against Islam. It is the second situation, \nthe unilateral attack and the spreading of \"fasad\" that \nwould apply in the case of Rushdie.\n\nThe matter of Rushdie is not a simple matter of banning an \noffensive book (banning the book is secondary) -\na full set of circumstances following the publication of\nthe book come into play as well, including the deaths of many\nMuslims, and Rushdie's (and his publishers) Media games.\n\n\n\n\nI am not sure which hadith you are referring to above. I believe\nthat one of the Qur'anic verses on which the fatwa is based is 5:33.\nEvery verse in the Qur'an has a corresponding \"circumstance of\nrevelation\" but in no way is the understanding (the tafsir) of the\nverse restricted solely to the particular historical circumstance\nin which it was revealed. If this was the case then we could say\nthat all the laws and regulations that were revealed when the\nMuslims were NOT involved in conflict, should be suspended when\nthey were at war. The logic does not follow. In complex, real-life\nsituations, there may be many verses and many hadiths which can\nall be related to a single, complicated situation. The internal\nrelationships between these verses may be quite complex, such that\narriving at an understanding of how the verses interlock and how\neach applies to the particular situation can be quite a demanding task.\nIt is not necessarily a simple \"this or that\" process. There may\nbe many parameters involved, there may be a larger context in\nwhich a particular situation should be viewed. All these matters\nimpinge on the situation.\n\nIn other words there is a great deal involved in deciphering the Qur'an.\nThe Qur'an asks us to reflect on its verses, but this reflection must\nentail more than simply reading a verse and its corresponding hadith.\nIf the reflection is for the sake of increasing personal piety, then each\nperson has his own level of understanding and there is no harm in that.\nHowever, if the reflection is in order to decide matters that pertain to\nthe\nState, to the gestation of laws and rulings, to the gestation of society,\nthe dispensing of justice, the guidance of the community, then there \nare certain minimum requirements of understanding that one \nshould achieve. Jaffar Ibn Muhammad as-Sadiq(a.s.) relates some of \nthese requirements, as taught by the Prophet(S.A.), in a hadith:\n\n\"...he who does not distinguish in the Book of Allah the abrogating\nverse from the abrogated one, and a specific one from a general one,\nand a decisive from an ambiguous; and does not differentiate between\na permission and an obligation, and does not recognize a verse of\nMeccan period from a Medinite one, and does not know the circumstances \nof revelation, and does not understand the technical words of\nthe Qur'an (whether simple or compound); and does not comprehend the\nknowledge of decree and measure, and is ignorant of advancing and\ndelaying (in its verses); and does not distinguish the clear from\nthe deep, nor the manifest from the esoteric, nor the beginning\nfrom the termination; and is unaware of the question and the answer,\nthe disjoining and the joining, and the exceptions and the all-inclusive,\nand is ignorant of an adjective of a preceding noun that explains the\nsubsequent one; and is unaware of the emphasized subject and the\ndetailed one, the obligatory laws and the permissions, the places of the\nduties and rules, and the meaning of the lawful and the unlawful; and\ndoes not know the joined words, and the words that are related to those\ncoming before them, or after them - then such a man does not know\nthe Qur'an; nor is he among the people of the Qur'an....\".\n\nBased on these and other hadiths, and in accordance with many Qur'anic\nverses (\"Why should not a company from every group remain behind \nto gain profound understanding (tafaqquh) in religion and to warn \npeople when they return to them, so that they may beware.\" (9:122)),\na science of jurisprudence arose. The requirements\nfor a person to be considered a mujtahid (one who can pronounce on\nmatters of law and religion) are many. I've listed a few major \ndivisions below - there are, of course, many subdivisions within these\nheadings.\n\n- Knowledge of Arabic (syntax, conjugation, roots, semantics, oratory).\n- Knowledge of tafsir and principles of tafsir.\n- Logic (mantiq)\n- A knowledge of Hadiths\n- A knowledge of transmitters (rijal)\n- Knowledge of the principles of juriprudence (Qur'an, Sunnah, Consensus,\nReasoning)\n\nThe study of Qur'an and sunnah for purposes of law involves:\n- discussion of imperatives (awamir)\n- discussion of negative imperatives (nawahi)\n- discussion of generalities and particularities (aam wa khas)\n- discussion of unconditional and conditional\n- discussion of tacit meanings\n- discussion of the abstract and the clear\n- discussion of the abrogator and the abrogated\n\nThe principles of Application of the law involves:\n- principles of exemption\n- principles of precaution\n- principles of option\n- principles of mastery\n\nThe jurisprudent is bound to go through a very rigorous process\nin pronouncing judgement on a given situation. It is not a matter\nof looking at one verse and one hadith. \n\nNow no one should blindly follow anyone, but there is a difference\nbetween blind following and acceding to the opinion of someone who is\nclearly more knowledgeable and more qualified than oneself. There is the\n\"The fuqaha (religious scholars) are the trustees of the Prophet, as \nlong as they do not concern themselves with the illicit desires, pleasures,\nand wealth of this world.\" The Prophet (S.A.) was asked: \"O Messenger\nof God! How may we know if they so concern themselves?\" He (S.A.) replied:\n\"By seeing whether they follow the ruling power. If they do that, fear for\nyour religion and shun them.\" I do not yet know enough about the Imams\nof the four Sunni madhabs to comment on how this hadith applies\nto them or to the contemporary scholars who base themselves upon them.\n\nThe Prophet also refered to the fuqaha as \"The fortress of Islam\". My only\npoint is to make it clear that arriving at a legal judgement calls into\nplay a certain amount of expertise - the specifics of this expertise is \ndelineated in the Qur'an and hadith. Those who acquire this expertise\nare praised in both the Qur'an and hadith - those who without the requisite\nknowledge pronounce on matters that affect society, state, and religion \nare cautioned.\n\nThe only reason I said anything at all about the Rushdie affair in this\ngroup, is because the whole basis for the discussion of the fatwa (that is,\napostasy), was wrong. When one discusses something they should at least\nbase their discussion on fact. Secondly, Khomeini was condemned as a\nheretic\nbecause he supposedly claimed to be infallible - another instance of\ncreating a straw man and then beating him.\n\n\nI agree that we should move the discussion to another newsgroup.\nUnfortunately,\nI do not have any access to email, so private discussion or a moderated\ngroup\nis out of the question (I cannot post to a moderated group like\nsoc.religion.islam. How about soc.culture.arabic or talk.religion.misc?", "\nExcellently put!\n\nEven as a libertarian, I have to admit government does do some things I\nlike. There is a beautiful performing arts complex in Ft. Lauderdale\nthat was partially built with tax dollars (I don't know how much was\nprivate and how much was stolen, I mean public) but it is beautiful and\nI enjoy it. (Keep in mind, though, most of the people in the city will\nnever attend a single performance there, so they might feel differently\nabout having to help pay for it.)\n\nHowever, I have to disagree about it being desireable or efficient to\ngive government intervention-power on a case-by-case basis. In fact,\nwe have a lot better luck maintaining our freedom of speech precisely\nbecause it is not decided on a case-by-case basis as much as other\nissues. Judges decide whether political speech is allowed on the\nsidewalk in front of the post office. They do not try to decide just\nwhether pro-nazi, pro-choice, pro-life, or pro-tax political speech\nshould be allowed on the sidewalk in front of the post office. You can\nimagine the result if right to free speech was decided by the majority\non a case-by-case basis.\n\nNot so with economic issues. Government does tell taxi-drivers exactly\nwhat they can charge, but not the bus lines or the lawyers.\n\nJust as it is not desireable to decide rights of free speech on a\ncase-by-case basis, we should not decide rights to free enterprise on a\ncase-by-case basis.\n\nThere is hope that a government can be restricted from interferring with\nfree enterprise. But there is no hope, in my opinion, of having a\ngovernment that interferes with free enterprise in an \"efficient\"\nmanner; I call it political market failure.\n\nThus, if you value freedom and the abundance it produces, you have to\nswallow the \"whole libertarian agenda.\"", "[ Article crossposted from rec.arts.books ]\n[ Author was Mark Wilson ]\n[ Posted on Wed, 21 Apr 1993 11:55:55 GMT ]\n\nI am looking for the following book, which I have\nonly seen as a paperback (I lent my copy to someone,\nand forgetfulness has made that pronoun PERMANENTLY\nindeterminate!). I am looking for one OR two copies!\n\nTitle: The Nine-Mile Walk and Other Stories\n (unsure about the hyphen and the exact subtitle)\nAuthor: Harry Kemelman (author of all the \"Rabbi\" mysteries)\n\nIt's a collection of short mystery stories. Please email\nmark@ocsmd.ocs.com OR call the 800 number given below.\nThanks!\n\n- Mark\n--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nMark Wilson, Online Computer Systems. 1-800-922-9204 or 1-301-601-2215\n(Try email address mark@ocsmd.ocs.com....)\nThis file .disclaims everything signed with my .signature, I .mean it!\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nMark Wilson, Online Computer Systems. 1-800-922-9204 or 1-301-601-2215\n(Try email address mark@ocsmd.ocs.com....)\nThis file .disclaims everything signed with my .signature, I .mean it!", "\n\n I agree very much. I have read almost every article written about\n the Glock, and IMO, it is probably the safest auto-loader made. It\n has the best safty of all, Jeff Cooper's First Rule, \"Keep your finger\n OFF the trigger until you want to shoot.\" If everyone just observed\n this, there would be fewer \"accidents\".\n\n David N. Bixler\n Auburn University", "I wrote a letter the other day to Empower America - the organization\nwhich claims to be championing conservative issues, esp. in the wake \nof the Republican defeat last fall. \n\nSome might consider them just a an organization to create a network of \nsupport among conservatives for some individuals in prep. for '96 run.\n\nYou'd be close to the truth.\n\nTheir two leading spokesmen are Bill Bennett, former 'Drug Czar' who heartily\nsupported Bush's semi-auto import ban, and wondered if it went far enough - \nwho helped put the big lie about 'sporting use' into the public's eye - and\nJack Kemp - who recently came out in support of semi-auto bans. \n\nThese are conservatives ? \n\nAnyway I thought it interesting that when I ran Word Perfect's spell check\nagainst my letter - it came up with the following corrections for 'Bennett' :\n\n1. Banned\n2. Bayonet\n\n\nNeedless to say, I found these choices rather amusing.\n\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\"It [collectivism vs individualism] is an ancient conflict. Men have come\nclose to the truth, but it was destroyed each time and one civilization fell\nafter another. Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The\nsavage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe.\nCivilization is the process of setting man free from men.\"\n -- Ayn Rand : 'Roark's speech from the _Fountainhead_'\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nI don't speak for my company. We hire the 'Politically Correct' to do that.", "\n\n\n\nYou need to hop over to talk.politics.misc. Wee have been chewing on this gem\nfor awhile. The challenge has been made to name a single supply sider who\never said this. For the last three weeks the challenge has gone unmet.\nI issue the same challenge to you.", "\nThe most practical use I've seen for them is as key ring ornaments :-)", "Choose any or all of the following as an answer to the above:\n ", "\nI don't think we should draw borders around newsgroups, christians\nare free to read and post entries on the atheist newsgroups, and \nmuslims are free to so so in other groups as well.\n\nIt's up to each individual to define their time schedule concerning \npostings. The problems we all have noticed on various newsgroups\nis the evangelistical method of telling that 'I am right, and you are\nwrong'. This is true of both theists and atheists.\n\nHopefully a more constructive dialogue between the groups \nwould help concerning assumptions and colorization of views.\n\nCheers,\nKent", "\n\n\n ^^^^^^^ Militia\n\n ^^^^^ State\n\n ^^^^ Arms\n\nYou didn't even get the capitalization correct! Try reading USCA on\nthe Constitution, or get any other CORRECT version of the\nConstitution. \n\n\nPerhaps you should actually READ the Federalist Papers!!\n\n James Madison, Federalist Paper 46: \"Besides the advantage of\n being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost\n every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to\n which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers\n are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of\n ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government\n of any form can admit of. Notwithstanding the military\n establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are\n carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments\n are afraid to trust the people with arms.\"\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\n James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, 8 June 1789: \"The right\n of the people to keep and bear... arms shall not be infringed. A\n well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people,\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free\n country...\"\n\n Alexander Hamilton, Federalist Paper 29 (on the organization of\n the militia): \"Little more can reasonably be aimed at, with\n respect to the people at large, than to have them properly armed\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n and equipped; and in order to see that this be not neglected, it\n will be necessary to assemble them once or twice in the course of\n a year.\"\n\n Alexander Hamilton, Federalist Paper 29 (speaking of standing\n armies): \"... if circumstances should at any time oblige the\n government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be\n formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large\n body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*****\n own rights and those of their fellow-citizens.\"\n ***^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nBut *surely* Hamilton and Madison didn't mean the PEOPLE when they\nsaid \"people\", right? That's why the Amendment refers to \"the Right\nof the Militia\"?... ;-)\n\n\nYou're right, the Militia consists of ALL able bodied males (and\nprobably females under current interpretation). \n\n\nThe Amendment does nor refer to \"well organized\", it says \"well\nregulated\". I have some targets you may examine if you wish to check\nhow _well regulated_ I am. \n\n\n\nCorrect. That's why the Right is reserved to the People. And that\nwas to insure the People could form a \"well regulated Militia\", not a\n\"well organized militia\".\n\n\nWhat do Atomic Units have to do with this argument? Any moron can set\nh_bar = C = 1...\n\n\nOh, I see what your question is; Why don't you read the federalist\nPapers?! \n\n James Madison, Federalist Paper 41 (regarding the \"General\n Welfare\" clause): \"Nothing is more natural nor common than first\n to use a general phrase, and then to explain and qualify it by a\n recital of particulars.\"\n\nBut what does Madison know about the grammatical style of the 2nd? He\nonly wrote it.\n\n\nThat's obviously because you've never actually *read* the Federalist\nPapers. \n\n\nCan't read, huh? Show me where the document says \"well organized\nmilitia\". \n\n\nThat is *exactly* why EVERY PERSON should be allowed to own *any*\nweapon currently in use in the armed forces.\n\n\nBut the major reason is to protect against that very same army.\n\n\n Abraham Lincoln, First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1861: \"This\n country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit\n it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government,\n they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or\n their revolutionary right to dismember it or overthrow it.\"\n\n Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, spoken during floor debate\n over the Second Amendment, I Annals of Congress at 750, 17 August\n 1789: \"What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the\n establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. ...\n Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of\n the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order\n to raise an army upon their ruins.\"\n\nSo now we know which category Mr. Rutledge is in; He means to destroy\nour Liberties and Rights.\n\n--\nCharles Scripter * cescript@phy.mtu.edu\nDept of Physics, Michigan Tech, Houghton, MI 49931", "...\n\nI had an ehum, interesting experience with the Rosicrucians, or at\nleast Rosicrucians of some sort last Sunday. They had advertised that\nthey were holding a lecture titled The Graal of the King -- the room\nof the heart (which rhymes in Swedish). Out of curiosity, I went to\nthe lecture.\n\nThere were four people there apart from the two Rosicrucians, one\nwoman and two men apart from me. The Rosicrucians were male, both of\nthem. First one of them told us about the Rosicrucians and Lectorium\nRosicrucianum, which was founded in Harlem, NL in 1925. He read\nstraight from a piece of paper, which I at that point was because he\nlacked experience in talking in front of people, but the other guy\nread, too, and he was used to holding speeches, I could tell. The\nfirst guy also said that the R:s are a mystical Christian order, and\nthat they base their teachings on the teachings of the Kathars\n(English?) from the thirteenth century.\n\nThe other guy took over, reading from his piece of paper in a\nfairy-tale teller's voice. What he said sounded like a load of crap to\nme. Of course that might be because I am unenlightened or something.\nWhat made me a bit suspicious, was the way they first said that we all\ncontained something divine, and could find our way back to divinity,\nthen that we couldn't become divine as the persons we are currently,\nbut if we worked really hard we would reach eternal bliss. Maybe I've\nread too much RAW, but it sounded very much like the things he talks\nabout in the chapter _How to robotize people and brainwash your\nfriends_ in _Prometheus rising_. \n\nIt was very interesting to watch the two Rosicrucians. The one holding\nthe actual lecture, obviously was top dog, and the other one seemed to\nbe a true believer. I got the impression that the top dog had more\ndistance to the faith than the true believer, that he used it to gain\npower and admiration. He spoke like a fairy-tale teller, whenever he\nremembered. ;)\n\nThe information brochure is at home. Should you want their address,\nplease e-mail me.\n--Ceci\n", "\nAt all times in human history, people have killed and stolen from one\nanother. If you can find an example of where this hasn't happened in\nhistory, then you have discovered a new phenomenon in nature.\n\nIt is pointless asking whether people \"should\" do this;\nthey DO do this. It has just evolved that way. Humans have evolved to\nhave this characteristivc. You can debate whether this should be\nparticular matter should be left up to the individual or not, but it is\nthe nature of humans to kill and steal from others and you will not find\na single counterexample (of a society without these types) in nature.\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\nPlease find a better argument than that's the way it has always been.\nChild mortality has always been, yet we find it in our hearts to have\nmade an attempt to change that. ", "\nThat depends entirely upon the advertiser whose number you circled.\nRadio Electronics compiles all of the cards, then each advertiser\ngets a computer printout of the names and addresses of all of the readers\nwho circled their number. Some magazines also provide the data on\nself-adhesive labels, and the really big magazines provide the\ndata on computer disk.\n\nThe advertiser decides what to do with the data they get. You will\nnotice that the Radio Electronics information card (commonly called\na \"bingo card\" in the industry) includes lines for a company name\nand a business phone number. My guess would be that the big, national\nadvertisers make a distinction between hobbiests and professionals as\nbest they can. For example, if you include Motorola as your company\nand include a business phone (and a mail stop), Tektronics will probably\nsend you a copy of their hard-bound catalog and have a sales engineer\ncall you about a week later. If you leave it blank, odds are they\nwill send you a slick brochure and direct you to a local retail\noutlet. Medium and small companies are more likely to send you th\ne whole catalog. And then some companies, like Digikey or Jameco, have\nnothing to mail out accept the catalog.\n\nA couple of other interesting points about bingo cards: Free, industry\nmagazines like EDN and such also log your card to their computer. They\nuse the information at least three ways. They note that you really do read\nthe magazine and are more likely to continue your subscription or push\nyou, through repeated mailings, to re-subscribe. They also compile\nhow many people requested which data for their marketing demographics.\nThis way thay can tell a prospective advertiser that \"23% of readers\nrequesting data were interested in capacitors.\" And finally, some\nmagazines rent lists of readers who request certain information. For\nexample, Tektronics can rent a list of everyone who requested information\nabout test equipment OTHER THAN TEKTRONIC's, in the past 6 months.\n\nThe other point, in the data the advertiser receives, many magazines\ninclude how many items you circled on the card. If they want, the\nadvertiser can attempt to cull out the \"literature collectors\" from\nthe serious potential customers.\n\n\"Can you say qualified sales leads? I thought you could.\"\n\nWhat's the BEST way for a hobbiest to deal with bingo cards?\n\n Never circle more than 8 number on the card. If you want more\n than 8 items, use the second card and mail it a couple of\n weeks later.\n\n If you are really, really serious and you really, really want\n the information, CALL THE ADVERTISER AND ASK! This will also\n cut about 15 days off the the response time. Virtually\n everyone takes a voice on the phone more seriously than data\n on a computer printout.\n\n To help insure you keep getting a trade magazine that you're\n not really \"qualified\" for, send in a bingo card at least every\n other month and circle two or three numbers.\n\n Include a business name and phone number, even if it's your house.\n Advertisers almost never call. ", "/(hudson)\n/Yes you do. Who is to say that it is immoral for onesself to experience\n/pain or to be hurt in some other way. Maybe unpleasant, but that doesn't\n/say anything about morality.\n\nIt violates free will, Hudson.\n\n\n\n(me)\n\n/(hudson)\n/Why is making someone a less productive member of society immoral?\n\nHudson, you are screwing up again. Morality does not (I say again, DOES\nNOT) define only \"right and wrong\". It also defines \"acceptable social\nbehavior\", without any overtones of good and evil. Picking up your trash\nis not really a right/wrong moral issue in the eternal sense of Good\nand Evil. Yet it is moral in the sense that it is acceptable social\nbehavior\". \n\nYour definition of the word \"morality\" is what is causing you to trip over \nyourself here.\n\n\n\n\n/(me)\n/And since\n/>I, selfish being that I am, want to maximize my gains from society, I will\n/>not do anything to another member of society if that action might cut down\n/>on how much benefit I can derive from society.\n\n/(hudson)\n/Why is your benefit somehow related to morality.\n\nAgain, your definition is causing you to shoot yourself in the foot.\n\n\n\n\n\n/(hudson)\n/What about if someone feels that their own personal benefit is enhanced\n/more than it would be damaged by depleting the overall resources of society?\n/Maybe something might hurt society, but it would help him immensly?\n\nThat is irrational thinking. \n\nThere may also be people out there who think that death by atomic \ndestruction is a sublime and wonderful thing. I am not going to let them\nexecute that idea just because they want to do it. \n\nSimply because I let people make up their minds about what morals they\nhave doesn't prevent me from spotting and stopping a madman when I see\none, Hudson. And even then, I will only stop him when he interferes \nwith me and my life. That is the difference between me and you: you\nwant to interfere in people's lives even when they aren't affecting\nyou. \n\n\n\n\n\n/(hudson)\n/The central character in Dostoevsky's novel, Crime and Punishment, \n/(R something or other) reasoned that if killed this old Jewish woman and\n/stole her money to educate and establish himself financially, he could\n/make a great contribution to society. He reasoned that she was not of \n/much profit to society. She just collected rents, and hoarded money.\n\n\nOne of the central points of any (that's ANY) moral system is that is\nhas to be internally consistent. \n\nBy killing her, the character had to accept the premise that the ends\njustify the means. If he accepted that premise, then (in order to be\nconsistent), he must accept the idea that some day another person may\napply the same standard to HIS life. Now, if he is unwilling to accept\nthis premise (which he will not be willing to accept), then he has\nbehaved inconsistently with his own moral standard.\n\n\n\n\n\n/(me)\n/[football example deleted]\n\n/(hudson)\n/Now suppose a freshman on the bench will only get to play if one of the\n/players in the field/on the court is injured (or killed.) This freshman\n/wants to play in the big game so a talent scout can see him. If he hurts\n/a player on the team, it might slightly lessen the chances of the team to\n/win, but he might gain great personal benefit. So, operating on purely\n/selfish (immorally selfish) motives, he arranges for a sniper to shoot a\n/team player in the leg. He gets to play in front of the talent scout.\n\n/Did that freshman behave morally?\n\n/Selfish intentions may sometimes generate (apparently) moral actions, but\n/not always.\n\n\n\nTwo problems right off the bat:\n\n1. The problem with your analogy is that it doesn't address the goal\nthat I started with: winning the game. Playing in front of the talent\nscout != winning the game. Try creating the same analogy and keep the\nultimate goal the same, will you?", "\n: How hot should the CPU in a 486-33 DX machine be?\n\n: Currently it gets so hot that I can not hold a finger on it for more than\n: 0.5 s. \n\nI seem to recall that 486s run somewhere close to the boiling point of water.\nAnyone have an exact temperature?\n\nAnyway, putting a CPU fan/heat sink on it won't hurt and could help. Depends\non how paranoid you are...", " ^^^^^\n\nI'm curious why you think that particular adjective is important.", "They must be shipping that good Eau Clair acid to California now.", "\nCould you expand on your definition of knowing? It seems a bit monolithic\nhere, but I'm not sure that you intend that. Don't we need, for example, to\ndistinguish between \"knowing\" 2 plus 2 equals 4 (or 2 apples plus 2 apples\nequals 4 apples), the French \"knowing\" that Jerry Lewis is an auteur, and\nwhat it means to say we \"know\" what Socrates said?\n", "\nI'll third the opinion about this outfit/franchise. Now, when I\nbuy over the net and pick up the shipping costs, I'll specify that I\nonly pick up the normal UPS charges (as if delivered directly to\nUPS), as I've been burned by $10 shipping charges for a $2.49 pkg.\nI will never use a mailing service unless I don't have the\nright box and the buyer needs whatever IMMEDIATELY. I'll also\ntell the person, if they agreed to pick up shipping, what is going on.\n\nOther things to watch out for/consider:\n\n\tThe rates are $5 to $30 higher than UPS direct.\n\n\tFor a non-UPS (truck) package, they quoted a rate\n\tof $85. Fed Ex economy air was only $85 for the\n\tsame weight! RPS (a trucking package company, in many\n\tcities) only wanted $18. Guess who got it. The Mailbox\n\toperator told me I was not telling the truth about\n\tcompetitors' rates, said RPS was unreliable (I've used them\n\tbefore with NO problems), etc. Right.\n\n\tA COD check goes to the mailing service. Our local\n\tMailbox then takes its sweet time mailing me the\n\tremade check. All this for an additional $3.00 over the\n\tUPS COD charge. What a deal.... :-)\n\n\tFor packages over $100, they charge you about double over\n\twhat UPS charges them for insurance. I've never had\n\ta claim, but other netters (is Ralph Seguin out there?)\n\thave told horror stories about them...\n\n\tAll package traces have to be done through Mailbox by\n\tMailbox.\n\n\tOur local Mailbox operator told me I was lying when I\n\tasked him why their rates were stratospheric compared\n\tto direct UPS. Does he ever check? Probably not...\n\n\tTheir UPS ground rates come close to Fed Ex's economy\n\tair rate, and Fed Ex will pick up!\n\n\tUPS will pick up for a $5 charge in most areas!\n\t\n-- \n--------------------------------------------------------------------\n Dave Medin\t\t\tPhone:\t(205) 730-3169 (w)\n SSD--Networking\t\t\t\t(205) 837-1174 (h)\n Intergraph Corp.\n M/S GD3004 \t\tInternet: dtmedin@catbyte.b30.ingr.com\n Huntsville, AL 35894\t\tUUCP: ...uunet!ingr!b30!catbyte!dtmedin\n\n ******* Everywhere You Look (at least around my office) *******", "\n\nNo matter how \"absurd\" it is to suggest that a common moral system created by\nmankind is absolute, it is not contrary to reason to suggest that a common\nmoral system created by mankind is sensible. In fact, for the Bible to be of\nany use to mankind as a moral code, it must be interpreted by mankind and a\nworkable moral system created for everyday use.\n\nThe Jewish Talmud is the result of centuries of Biblical scholars analysing\nevery word of the Torah to understand the morality behind it. The Children of\nIsrael were given a very strict set of Moral, Civil, Judicial and Ceremonial\nLaws to follow and yet this was clearly not enough to cover every instance\nof moral dilemma in their Society. For a Christian, the situation is no better.\n\nIt seems to me that the only code of morality that we have from the Judeo-\nChristian God is that which is contained in the Bible (which we can see from\nthe diverse opinions in the Christian newsgroups is not clear). There may well\nbe an absolute morality defined by the Judeo-Christian God for mankind to\nfollow but it seems that we only have a subset simply because the concept was\nwritten down by man.\n\nThis leads to the problem of defining morality for our society. If we take the\ndivine Morality then we have a code of practice which may be interpreted in many\ndifferent ways (as an example, consider the immolation of heretics in the\nfifteenth century and the interpretation of the Bible which allows a man to do\nthat to another man under the precept to administer Justice). If we take an\nagnostic Morality then we have a code of practice that can be modified to suit\nsociety (with all the danger that this implies). Alternatively, we could take\nthe basis of the Judeo-Christian morality and interpret/extend this to create\nand justify a code of morality which suits the society we live in and enables\nthe people to live Righteously (as many Christian and Non-Christian philosophers\nhave done).\n\nWhatever the driving force behind the definition of morality for our society, I\nthink the important aspect is the result.\n\nDavid.\n\n---\nOn religion:", "\tThanks, I think I've figured it out now.\n\n ------------------------------------------------------------------------\n | Robert S. Dubinski | Aliases include: Robb, Regal, Sir, Mr., and I |\n ------------------------------------------------------------------------\n | Marquette University ||||||||||| Math / Computer Science Double-Major|\n ------------------------------------------------------------------------\n | Internet Address: 2A42Dubinski.vms.csd.mu.edu |\tMilwaukee, WI |", "\nWelcome.\n\n\nHm. I get a little queasy around the phrase \"aren't morally \nresponsible\", perhaps because I've heard it misused so many times.\n(I remember in college some folk trying to argue that a person who\nwas drunk was not morally responsible for his actions.) In general,\nmost folk can't control their dreams, but perhaps what you do all day\nand think about has some impact on them, hm? And I'm not sure what\n\"actions\" are in a dream. But I will note that Jesus does seem adamant\nabout the fact that our thought-life is at least as important as\nour actions. Go lightly with this argument - we are all morally\nresponsible for *who we are* and dreams might well be an important\npart of that.\n\nI don't know a thing about Out Of Body Experiences. I've had dreams, some\nfairly vivid ones; is an OOBE just a very vivid dream? I would argue that\nextreme interest in this sort of phenomena is a tad risky; it is probably\nmuch better to think about who Jesus is, and who we are in relation to that,\nthan to cultivate a strong interest in dreams. Unless you feel plagued by\ndreams that are painful and out of control; then pray about it and/or get help.\n\nWhat on Earth is your definition of \"often\"? I know exactly one case of\ntwo people who had substantially the same dream at the same time, and\nas they were brothers who had spent the day doing the same things I could\nsee why their dreams might be similiar. Anyway, the only \"other plane\" I\nknow of is the spiritual realm. I don't think *anyone's* dreams,\nperhaps outside the occasional prophet's, represent actual actions on an\nalternate plane. If they were real actions, or conscious thoughts, then\nyes they would have direct moral significance.\n\nin a different environment, then different moral laws apply\" is my guess of\nwhat you said.]\nI don't see the slightest hint in Christian writings that ones \"environment\"\nchanges the way a person determines what is moral. For a Christian won't\nit *always* come down to \"what Jesus would have us do?\"\n\nTruth? I don't claim to be an expert in dreams. I'll note that the Bible\ndoesn't talk much about dreams outside of the realm of God using them to speak\nto us, with the caveat that such messages are not always very clear, as it\nwarns somewhere in the OT. Given that, I would not give them a lot of\nattention unless you feel your dreams are trying to tell you something.", "\n\n\n\nI think this should be illuminating to all. Let me make a first\nsuggestion. When Arabic words, especially technical ones, become of use \nlet us define them for those, especially atheists, to whom they may not be\nterribly familiar. Please also note that though I did initially refer\nto Khomeini as a heretic for what I understood to be a claim -- rejected \nby you since -- of personal infallibility, I withdraw this as a basis\nfor such a statement. I conditionally retain this reference in regard\nto Khomeini's advocacy of the thesis of the infallibility of the \nso-called \"Twelve Imams,\" which is in clear conflict with the Qur'an \nin that it places the Twelve Imams in a category of behavior and example\nhigher than that of the Muhammad, in that the Qur'an shows that the\nProphet was clearly fallible, as well as (it appears, given your\nabstruse theological statment regarding the \"natures\" of the Twelve\nImams) placing them in a different metaphysical category than the \nremainder of humanity, with the possible exception of Muhammad, \nsomething which verges on the sin of association.\n\n\nAlaikum Wassalam,", "Regarding the moral question Jen (jenk@microsoft.com) asked: \"Is it\nokay to create a child if you aren't able to be a good parent?\", I\nam reminded of a \"speech\" by one of the characters (I can't remember\nwhich) in the movie \"Parenthood\". [I am WAY to liberal with my\nquotation marks tonight...]\n\nIn this so-called (by me) speech, the character is expressing what \na lousy father he had and he made an interesting point. He said\nsomething to the effect of:\n\"You have to have a license to drive a car. You have to have a\nlicense to own a dog. You even have to have a license to fish.\nBut, they'll anyone have a kid.\" [Keep in mind that I am, in NO\nway, trying to pass this off as a quote. It is probably GROSSLY\ndistorted but I think you get the point...]", "Has anyone considered how to prosecute a city holding a \"no\nquestions asked\" buy-back for receiving stolen property?", "\nI do (did) contribute to the ARF mortgage fund but when interest\nrates plumetted, I just paid it off.\n\nThe problem is, I couldn't convince Congress to move my home to \na nicer location on Federal land.\n\nBTW, even though the building is alleged to be funded by tax exempt\nprivate funds, the maintainence and operating costs will be borne by \ntaxpayers forever.\n\nWould anyone like to guess how much that will come to and tell us why\nthis point is never mentioned?", "\n\n\nDoes anybody have a collection of occurances of 42? (before and after\nThe Guide). If not, I would like to receive any odd bits you might know.\npostings to alt.fan.douglas.adams.\n\n", "\nTo start with, no methodology or form of reasoning is infallible. So\nthere's a question of how much certainty we are willing to pay for in a\ngiven context. Insistence on too much rigor bogs science down completely\nand makes progress impossible. (Expenditure of sufficiently large sums\nof money and amounts of time can sometimes overcome this.) On the other\nhand, with too little rigor much is lost by basing work on results which\neventually turn out to be false. There is a morass of studies\ncontradicting other studies and outsiders start saying \"You people call\nTHIS science?\" (My opinion, for what it's worth, is that one sees both\nthese phenomena happening simultaneously in some parts of psychology.) \n\nSome subjective judgement is required to decide on the level of rigor\nappropriate for a particular investigation. I don't believe it is \never possible to banish subjective judgement from science. \n\n\nMy second point, though, is that highly capable people can often make\nextremely reliable judgements about scientific validity even when using\nmethodology considered inadequate by the usual standards. I think this\nis true of many scientists and I think it is true of many who approach\ntheir discipline in a way that is not generally recognized as scientific.\n\nWithin mathematics, I think there are several examples, especially before\nthe twentieth century. One conspicuous case is that of Riemann, who is\nfamous for many theorems he stated but did not prove. (Later \nmathematicians did prove them, of course.) \n\nI think that for a good scientist, empirical investigation is often not\nso much a matter of determining what is true and what's not as it is a \nmatter of convincing other people. (People have proposed lots of \nincompatible definitions of science here, but I think the ability to \nobjectively convince others of the validity of one's results is an\nessential element. Not that one can necessarily do that at every step \nof the scientific process, but I think that if one is not moving toward \nthat goal then one is not doing science.)\n\nWhen a person other than a scientist is quite good at what he does and\nseems to be very successful at it, I think that his judgements are also\nworthy of respect and that his assertions are well worth further\ninvestigation. \n\n\nAdmittedly, my question was not at all well posed. A considerable\namount of effort in a \"serious scholarly investigation\" such as I\nsuggested would be required simply to formulate an appropriately \nspecific question to try and answer. \n\nThe \"science\" I was thinking of in my question is the actual science \ncurrently practiced now in the last decade of the twentieth century. \nI certainly wasn't thinking of some idealized science or the mere use \nof \"reason and observation.\"\n\nOne thing I had in mind in my suggestion was the question as to whether\nin many cases the subjective judgements of skilled and experienced\npractitioners might be more reliable than statistical studies. \n\nSince Russell Turpin seems to be much more familiar than I am with\nthe study of scientific methodology, perhaps he can tell us if there \nis any existing research related to this question. \n\n--\nIn the arguments between behaviorists and cognitivists, psychology seems \nless like a science than a collection of competing religious sects. ", "\n\n\n\n\n\nObviously, we have different sources. Bill Moyers (who happens to be a\ntheist, to tie this to alt.atheism!) in his PBS documentary \"After The\nWar\" is my main source. (I think I still have it on videotape.) Others\ninclude The Nation and The Progressive.\n\nThe rest of the article is mere rationalisation. You may claim that\nsanitation plants are strategic \"legitimate\" targets, but what happens to\nthe civilians in a city with no sewer system? What happens to the\ncivilians when you destroy water purification plants? And when hospitals\ncan't handle the resultant epidemics, because there is no more electricity?\n\nAnd what exactly are your sources? We have all, I'm sure, seen Postol's\ninterviews in the media where he demostrates how the Pentagon lied about\nthe Patriot's effectiveness; what is your source for the 70%\neffectiveness you claim?\n\nIn any case, I don't know if this is relevant to alt.atheism. How about\nif we move it somewhere else?\n\n-s", "#> Ah, ending discrimination is now fascism. \n\n#When you force people to associate with others against their will,\n#yes.\n\nEarth to Clayton, the topic under discussion was the US military, an\nall volunteer force.\n\nI realize you can't stop your knee jerking, but at least use half a\nclue. \n", "\nThe Catholic church has an entirely different view of Mary than do \n\"most\" other Christian churches (those with parallel beliefs\nnotwithstanding). Christ, by most accounts, is the only sinless\nperson to ever live. I too, have trouble with a sinless Mary\nconcept just. \nAs for the related issue of the \"original\" sin - only Adam and\nEve will answer for that one. My children do not answer for my sins,\ncertainly I only answer for mine.", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHow do we come up with this setup? Is this subjective, if enough people agreed\nwe could switch the order? Isn't this defining one unknown thing by another? \nThat is, good is that which is better than bad, and bad is that which is worse\nthan good? Circular?\n\nMAC\n\n--\n****************************************************************\n Michael A. Cobb\n \"...and I won't raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois\n class to pay for my programs.\" Champaign-Urbana\n -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu", "\nSo that's why the 13 newly independent states all had tax systems...", "}>}So stop dodging the question. What is hypocritical about my\n}>}criticizing bad arguments, given that I do this both when I agree\n}>}with the conclusion and when I disagree with the conclusion? \n}>\n}>You are the one who has claimed to possess the fruits of precognition,\n}>telepathy, and telempathy. Divine it yourself.\n}\n}Another dodge. Oh well. I'm no match for your amazing repertoire\n}of red herrings and smoke screens. \n}\n}You asked for an apology. I'm not going to apologize for pointing out\n}that your straw-man argument was a straw-man argument. Nor for saying\n}that your list of \"bible contradictions\" shows such low standards of\n}scholarship that it should be an embarrassment to anti-inerrantists,\n}just as Josh McDowell should be an embarrassment to the fundies. Nor\n}for objecting various times to your taking quotes out of context. Nor\n}for pointing out that \"they do it too\" is not an excuse. Nor for calling\n}your red herrings and smoke screens what they are.\n\nHow about the following inaccurate, unsubstantiated accusations:\nIn 8257@blue.cis.pitt.edu\n\t- but no \"threat\" produced \n\t- display of telepathy\n\t- in spite of no \"threat\" produced, nor forecast ever happening (precognition?)\n\t- in spite of claimed threat never being given\n\t- in spite of it never happening. telepathy or precognition?\n\t- unsubstantiated and untrue. more telepathy? Or maybe telempathy?\n\t- unsubstantiated again. Seems to be a habit...\n\nHaving more trouble with reality, it appears. Why get bothered with the facts when\nyou appear to have the products of paranatural divination methods?\n", "\n[advertises his printing business]\n\nOh, dear. Let me be the first on my block.\n\nYou have just violated one of the major shibboleths of the Usenet groups:\nyou're not supposed to use a newsgroup to plug your own commercial\nenterprise (of _any_ kind; people frequently get flamed for announcing\nthey've got a new book out.)\n\nI don't know whether this is an official Usenet rule or just a long-\nstanding custom, and it doesn't make much difference from a practical\npoint of view.\n\nSo please don't do it again.\n\nAnd all you others, who are even now taking keyboard in hand to flame\nhim off the face of the earth--lay off. He didn't know any better.\nHe does now.\n\n\nDorothy J. Heydt\nUC Berkeley\ncozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu", "\n\n\n\n\nOK, I admit I have no hard data on this. Why don't you help me with this?\nIf you would compile a commented list of all grants, un-repaid loans (if any),\nand direct aid, I'd be very interested to see it. If you could give me\nreferences from, for example, Congressional Budget Authorization Hearings,\nI could look them up here and I'd be happy to post a verification of your\ndata.\n\nOtherwise, I'll try my hand at this, but unfortunately I won't have sufficient\ntime available until the end of this month, so the results would be delayed.\n\nLet me know if you're interested in doing this.\n\n___Samuel___\nMossad Special Agent ID314159\nMedia Spiking and Mind Control Division\nLos Angeles Offices", "Hi !\n\nI am interested in the source of FEAL encryption algorithm.\nDoes someone of you know where I can get the source from, or\nwhere I can find documentation about FEAL.\n\nThanks in advance\n\n\nCiao Hermann", "Looking for hint book for indiana jones and the last crusade\nthe game is for the ibm.e-mail me or call 481 3740 and ask for orion.\n\n\n\n if you don't have the hint book but know how to answer these questions plao.", "\nThose who forward offensive posts to the sysadmin aren't curtailing\nanyones' freedom of speech. The neo-nazi movement has a right to\nmake speeches, say anything they want. They do not have a right\nto have these speeches published by the N.Y. Times. That depends\non the Times analysis of the economic and to somewhat extent\nnewsworthy value of those speeches. Likewise to the sysadmin\nof this fellows system. If he feels his resources are being\nused in a manner that is not in his best interests, or are\nperhaps embarassing to his organization, he will act just as\nthe New York Times does, not to be a conduit for these ideas.\nThe poster is after all free-loading off of someone else's\npocket book when he posts. He who controls the purse strings\nhas the right to make the decision how he wants those funds\nspent or not spent.\n\nNoone is going to put the poster in jail, unless he bombs a local\nbuilding as a symbol of his hatred. Freedom of Speech in no\nway equates to accessibility to conduits of information. The\nmarket of ideas has its own \"natural selection\" process that\nweeds out the ga-ga from the credible ideas that are of\nimportance.\n\n\n\t\tSeth Rosenthal", "\n\n\n\n\nOnce more around the racetrack. See the original statement that it is\nnonsense to believe that you cannot legislate morality. I simply stated\nthat they can pass all the laws they want but not a single one of them\nwill make you or I more moral people. They may make us act in a moral\nmanner, but our actions are only a reflection of the unwillingness to\nrisk punishment. They say nothing about whether we have become more\nmoral or not. Perhaps the distinction is too fine.\n\n\n\n\nTOG", "\nare you sure 45g is the right number? as far as i know, pilots are\nblackout in dives that exceed 8g - 9g. 45g seems to be out of human\ntolerance. would anybody clarify this please.\n\nlan\n", "Is it just me, or has this part gotten beyond useful?\n\nGregg is not, as I understand his posts, giving any support to the bounty\non Rushdie's life. If that's correct, end of one point...\n\nGregg is using the concept of legal in a way most Westerners don't accept.\nHis comments about Islamic Law I think make a great deal of sense to him,\nand are even making a _little_ sense to me now - if a person is a member\nof a group (religion or whatever) they bind themselves to follow the ways\nof the group within the bounds of what the group requires as a minimum.\nThe big bone of contention here that I'm picking up is that in the West\nwe have secular governments that maintain, more or less, a level of control\nand of requirements outside the requirements of optional groups. I think\nthe majority of us reading this thread are in tune (note - I didn't say\n\"in agreement\") with the idea that you are finally responsible to the\nsecular government, and within that to the group or groups a person may\nhave chosen.\n\nWith that in mind, it not possible under secular law (\"legally\" as most\npeople would define the term) to hold a person to a particular group once\nthey decide to separate from it. Only if the secular authorities agree\nthat there is a requirement of some sort (contractual, etc) is there\nany secular _enforcement_ allowed by a group to a group member or past\ngroup member.\n\nA religion can, and often does, believe in and require additional duties\nof a group member. And it can enforce the fulfillment of those duties\nin many ways - ostracism is common for example. But the limit comes when\nthe enforcement would impose unwanted and/or unaccepted onus on a person\n_in conflict with secular law_.\n\nThis is the difference. In a theocracy, the requirements of the secular\nauthorities are, by definition, congruent with the religious authorities.\nOutside a theocracy, this is not _necessarily_ true. Religious requirements\n_may_ coincide or may not. Similiarly, religious consequences _may_ or\nmay not coincide with secular consequences (if any).\n\nRegards,\n\nDew", "\nHmm... all reports from Texas authorities indicate that none of the children\nwhich the group released showed any signs of child abuse.. given that the same\nresults were found the last time the group was investigated for such allegations,\nI can pretty much state that I strongly suspect the government of disinformation\n/deception on this issue. And about stockpiling weapons/food, many recognized\nreligous groups practice maintaining a one years supply of food, and some even\nmaintain a supply of weapons and ammunition, why are those two facts grounds \nfor an armed assault? And from the dollar value of the weapons purchased, \nif they bought decent firearms it comes out to about one handgun, rifle, and\nshotgun for each adult, with a few extras... Going by that rule, the BATF\nbest get ready for the fight of their life when they assault Alabama...\n", "\"The Forever War\", one of my favorite SciFi books, had a passage devoted to \nbreathing fluids. The idea was to protect people from the high accelerations \nrequired for interstellar travel by emersing the passengers in dry-cleaning \nfluid saturated with oxygen. Plenty of very imaginative ideas is this book.\nI would certainly recommend it (won the Hugo and the Nebula awards).", "For those missing the context of this thrilling discussion between\nJim and I, Jim wrote the following to me in e-mail after I pointed out\nthat he (Jim) had taken a quote out of context:\n\nHe directed a similar accusation of hypocrisy, again based on a lack of\nresponse to an article by Robert Weiss, toward Stephen.\n\nI pointed out that I did, in fact, agree that both Robert Weiss and\nJim Meritt took quotes out of context. Hence, I find it difficult to\nunderstand why Jim thinks I am a hypocrite. Needless to say, I don't\nhave time to reply to *every* article on t.r.m. that takes a quote\nout of context. \n\nI asked Jim the following:\n\nJim replied by saying \n\nBut today we find four articles from Jim, one of which has the subject\n\"Silence is concurrence\": \n\n\nWhich is, of course, a complete red herring. Taking quotes out of\ncontext isn't a crime. I don't have time to read every article on\nt.r.m., and I'm certainly under no obligation to reply to them all.\n\nDoes \"silence is concurrence\" imply that Jim thinks that because I\ndidn't respond to Weiss' articles I must condone Weiss' taking quotes\nout of context? Jim doesn't want to give a direct answer to this\nquestion; read what he has written and decide for yourself.\n\n\nBut back to the context of my conversation with Jim. Jim's next \ngambit was to claim that he was using inductive logic when he\nconcluded that I was being a hypocrite. I challenged him to provide\nthe details of that logic that led him to an incorrect conclusion.\nToday we find another obscure article (posting it twice didn't help\nmake it more clear, Jim), titled \"Inductive Logic\":\n\n\nMore red herrings. Could Jim mean that he has read an uncountably large\nnumber of my articles? Could Jim mean that because I \"axed\" his articles,\nbut not Weiss' articles, he wants to conclude inductively ...\nWell, I can't see where he is going with this.\n\nBut I can help him with his induction. I've written roughly 80\narticles since January. The vast majority of them are discussions with\nFrank DeCenso and other inerrantists, where I take the position that\nthey are making bad arguments. Some are discussions with Jim Meritt\nwhere I take the position that he is making bad arguments (a straw man\nargument earlier, and taking quotes out of context more recently.)\n\nThink hard about this Jim. See the pattern? Think harder. Run it\nthrough your induction engine and see what pops out. ", "\n\nEverything we need to know about the seven seals is already\nin the bible. There is no \"knowledge\" of the seals that\nKoresh could have.\n\nUnless the FBI were to kill all publishers of the bible, it\nwould seem the story of the seven seals would be bound to\nleak out.", "\n Who? Where?\nDon't look at me. I want to send aid to Russia. Many other\nconservatives do as well. ", " >\tWell, the two nifty letters giving concrete proof that the\n >Income Tax is voluntary and giving specific procedures for stopping\n >withholding, et cetera have been out there for a while now.\n >\tThere has been no refutation to date. Have the nay-sayers\n >finally given up as defeated? Sure would like to hear there reasons\n >for disbelief at this point.\n\n Probably because you have yet to respond to the refutation I've posted.\n Teel, it's bad enough you post this bs, it's even worse that you don't\n even try to defend it when it gets torn to pieces, but then posting\n that no one's looked at it and gloating when all facts point to the\n contrary point to a severely deluded mind.\n\nWhat I found interesting about Conklin's letter is the \n6 cases he has won against the IRS. Now, assuming that\nthese cases really exist and were one by him (anyone checked?)\nthey may have nothing to do with his major tax claim. The IRS fought\none of his deductions. Defending your deductions seems puny when\nyou believe that there is no need to file in the first place!\n", "David\n\n\n", "\n[Rest deleted. Can anybody out in a.p.h help out?]\n\nFind out about \"the night of the brown shirts\".", "\nI have a joint House-Senate conference committe report (i.e., crime bill)\nfor the 102rd Congress which contains a \"Brady Bill -- 7 day waiting period\"\nwithin it. I believe it just died and never came up for a vote in either\nhouse.\n\n\nThey got four years of Clinton's support to pass it.", "---------- cut here ---------- part 02/03\nM_XN.GGHOL*(3IZ!02'C'\"YM=*][*&WT%S;)5:&$V8A= K/X@2$F[(J )CABC\nM=8H#9!C@^.0%CF]P[ )'._@V/$5S@ ?'#NW61T@A&-G1/H#C'!\\0)T7(*^Q\nM._[3L4,X=K08CH]P[$N>7<*Q\"SKV\"<>N_.* JS5@GF>O\\.PW,0[X6@-FN+:O\nM+QB0.X7KXP(XWM2QR_EV))8Z0!;?7I; \\2Z.O72\"XU\\<.^L%[Y,Z=K(/SN=Q\nM[H^.O<>Q;SIV'\\>.[-A_'/N=8P]R[(-6W@\"C''N?8Y=R[%>.GI\nMA>.Q'+OS\"E=_[6KO%'$'*.;+SOO!E_?W))([!F1^(-L3V(T.R;?92C&N!@CV,PJ 4\nMOJFUQ8*P=\"C3\\&NF]I>Q#G5-ZKJF4D_8UD&;; GK01) QE/H6IYUP3.U 7-<\nM8N^E=I0\"GFD[L>L<0J)Y=0J981XK5OEOPB'/9GU (C;.+&B_4&TVSR%0\\W\\%\nMO2DUO%T!N-\"''99#'_5!0>J_!PH\nM_E4%\"NQ=%V[WFX5/\\[OZCGRC6.O:NRH\"W/<'NT= +;11B[<3JF$WX-'%:,G5\nM>4Q8)+G)MP/A!O[,H8 8'\"2'A47B(]/X(\"12P:?0!CS%00C'/^@!'#P%R>X!\nMKH\\L-(>1O @V&0YU71,9DWK4[NPZ#M6@9FDTC\\JXICAIJP[RJ9!_G1C420@O\nM0E\",EX2@C]Y_)H8]PPCA$3$U3H?PW0'#FX&E.FD !8-C:.F46NLG@$]K5L\"4\nM#R;V@2?SJOPE5,5LK+$<7U]C;-%![^\"D&/0X\"$RE48S(+@< ]T3+$ W(2B->!A\nM>8AWQ,OT3*P;J#C.<()?D3X70?K04\"*4(9T\":1YIX)G3DT&<_426 >;VBQAI\nMNBV&Q+HHPG-0 &@K++R89+#H\nMF9!V5N39K6D*4^,4KT1-HN_M,%%0<7,R=^W LU5@72UZ@W0+:Z&&].N-';J?3T RJ\\4_/PJC! 4QV<1-*Q,%-B68GO#'AB=T@YH/8\nM1K4/-SDO.3SA;I+K>_VI0[G=T6]K@)Q:31;>GU]@#RZP%W>!B5S\"I(&NG\\(U\nM .[9T1.:,I,:AR(U0NYV@[I,K5T .? ]P VWC42AT@W&S<%+^\"(E,2^!I58E\nMV5+\\8^#(KB)-3G_'1YUO 9PZ][X)!(Q5>772!J<8:@N]@O%*K^HT1H&4Y+_(\nMUAV$K3,&;BMXTSKDUBT=5>&O*TFF\"8P#[8ODCG].0AZOJT$>=GF 51;<>^6!\nM$\\ 1)$N/?:4QK QE;%#@>B3Z0T.='U0>H]+0T>^A8UZO@=J>/D+QMHI?8(+;\nM2AK76^.^.W\"@75C-TU/>>]T(TL-S7#:O1_61**-Q5KP^)*;&C/2_(5EQYUO8\nMB\"Z_'UDD$,(#@$2/C5;[!\\\"7B;TJ9^2I_>^NJ,W(?/$USF77P-%;\nMR+)?8T9+H(JO$93HZ/7^,QP9A0$J@E\\ 5?P%4)4!H\"+E#L!;2*$!*GT$4&ES\nMA4 E1\\!5,IORI2$]9>V:\\J+6&6]2-=Z#V@)N9R&PQJ<0;.9YP3K>J\"JAVL%\nMC\"I;X\\R! 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VZL!SD!\"P;T:P*G08%X-D!ZO5P,, by strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight):\n\n\n\"Well Regulated\", at the time of its writing and in the context of the Second Amendment,\nmeans \"Properly trained and equipped.\"\n\nIt modern language it would read:\n\n\tA properly trained and equipped militia, being necessary to the security of\n\ta free state \n#include \n#include \n\ntypedef struct\n{\n\tVisual\t*visual;\n\tint\tdepth;\n} OptionsRec;\n\nOptionsRec\tOptions;\n\nXtResource resources[] =\n{\n\t{\"visual\", \"Visual\", XtRVisual, sizeof (Visual *),\n\tXtOffsetOf (OptionsRec, visual), XtRImmediate, NULL},\n\t{\"depth\", \"Depth\", XtRInt, sizeof (int),\n\tXtOffsetOf (OptionsRec, depth), XtRImmediate, NULL},\n};\n\nXrmOptionDescRec Desc[] =\n{\n\t{\"-visual\", \"*visual\", XrmoptionSepArg, NULL},\n\t{\"-depth\", \"*depth\", XrmoptionSepArg, NULL}\n};\n\n\n\nint\nmain (argc, argv)\n\tint\t\targc;\n\tchar\t\t**argv;\n{\n\tXtAppContext\tapp;\t\t/* the application context */\n\tWidget\t\ttop;\t\t/* toplevel widget */\n\tDisplay\t\t*dpy;\t\t/* display */\n\tchar\t\t**xargv;\t/* saved argument vector */\n\tint\t\txargc;\t\t/* saved argument count */\n\tColormap\tcolormap;\t/* created colormap */\n\tXVisualInfo\tvinfo;\t\t/* template for find visual */\n\tXVisualInfo\t*vinfo_list;\t/* returned list of visuals */\n\tint\t\tcount;\t\t/* number of matchs (only 1?) */\n\tArg\t\targs[10];\n\tCardinal\tcnt;\n\tchar\t\t*name = \"test\";\n\tchar\t\t*class = \"Test\";\n\n\t/*\n\t * save the command line arguments\n\t */\n\n\txargc = argc;\n\txargv = (char **) XtMalloc (argc * sizeof (char *));\n\tbcopy ((char *) argv, (char *) xargv, argc * sizeof (char *));\n\n\t/*\n\t * The following creates a _dummy_ toplevel widget so we can\n\t * retrieve the appropriate visual resource.\n\t */\n\tcnt = 0;\n\ttop = XtAppInitialize (&app, class, Desc, XtNumber (Desc), &argc, argv,\n\t\t\t (String *) NULL, args, cnt);\n\tdpy = XtDisplay (top);\n\tcnt = 0;\n\tXtGetApplicationResources (top, &Options, resources,\n\t\t\t\t XtNumber (resources),\n\t\t\t\t args, cnt);\n\tcnt = 0;\n\tif (Options.visual && Options.visual != DefaultVisualOfScreen (XtScreen (top)))\n\t{\n\t\tXtSetArg (args[cnt], XtNvisual, Options.visual); ++cnt;\n\t\t/*\n\t\t * Now we create an appropriate colormap. We could\n\t\t * use a default colormap based on the class of the\n\t\t * visual; we could examine some property on the\n\t\t * rootwindow to find the right colormap; we could\n\t\t * do all sorts of things...\n\t\t */\n\t\tcolormap = XCreateColormap (dpy,\n\t\t\t\t\t RootWindowOfScreen (XtScreen (top)),\n\t\t\t\t\t Options.visual,\n\t\t\t\t\t AllocNone);\n\t\tXtSetArg (args[cnt], XtNcolormap, colormap); ++cnt;\n\n\t\t/*\n\t\t * Now find some information about the visual.\n\t\t */\n\t\tvinfo.visualid = XVisualIDFromVisual (Options.visual);\n\t\tvinfo_list = XGetVisualInfo (dpy, VisualIDMask, &vinfo, &count);\n\t\tif (vinfo_list && count > 0)\n\t\t{\n\t\t\tXtSetArg (args[cnt], XtNdepth, vinfo_list[0].depth);\n\t\t\t++cnt;\n\t\t\tXFree ((XPointer) vinfo_list);\n\t\t}\n\t}\n\tXtDestroyWidget (top);\n\n\n\t/*\n\t * Now create the real toplevel widget.\n\t */\n\tXtSetArg (args[cnt], XtNargv, xargv); ++cnt;\n\tXtSetArg (args[cnt], XtNargc, xargc); ++cnt;\n\ttop = XtAppCreateShell ((char *) NULL, class,\n\t\t\t\tapplicationShellWidgetClass,\n\t\t\t\tdpy, args, cnt);\n\n\t/*\n\t * Display the application and loop handling all events.\n\t */\n\tXtRealizeWidget (top);\n\tXtAppMainLoop (app);\n\treturn (0);\n}\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n5. Which visual should an application use?\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nThis is a point that can be argued about but one opinion is there is\nno way for an application to know the appropriate visual -- it has to\nbe specified by the user. If you disagree with this then your\napplication probably falls into the category of always using the\ndefault visual or it is hardware specific and expects some particular\nvisual such as 24bit TrueColor with an OverlayPlane extension (or some\nsuch).\n\nWhy? No application runs in isolation. Depending on the way a server\nallocates resources I may not always want your application to run in\nTrueColor mode if it is going to mess up my other applications. I may\nbe very upset if it chooses to run in GreyScale instead of PsuedoColor\nor just monochrome.\n\nAs an example, on a low end color Sun server there are many different\npossible visuals: monochrome, 256 entry colormap, static gray, static\ncolor, and a 3/3/2 TrueColor. The SGI Iris's offer all the above \nplus 12 bit TrueColor, 24 bit TrueColor, an Overlay Plane.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n6. Why do only Shell widgets have a Visual?\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nThis is strictly by convention. It makes it possible for an arbitrary\nwidget to know that the visual it uses can be found by looking for the\nshell widget that is its ancestor and obtaining the visual of that\nshell.\n\nA widget can have its own visual resource. If it does, it must have\nits own realize method to use the visual when it calls\nXCreateWindow(). You should also make this a resource that can be\nobtained with XtGetValues() so other widgets can find it. A\nreasonable value is probably XtNvisual.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n7. Which visual, depth and colormap do Shells inherit?\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nThe default value for these resources are set to CopyFromParent. This\nis interpreted as the DefaultColormapOfScreen(), DefaultDepthOfScreen()\nand the default visual of the screen if the widget has no parent -- i.e.\nit is an applicationShellWidgetClass and the root of your widget tree.\n\nIf the parent of the widget is not null, then the shell copies\ncolormap and depth from its parent and uses CopyFromParent as the\nvisual.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n8. I've done all the above and I still get a BadMatch error. Why?\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nSome resource converters improperly cache references. This was\nespecially true of X11R3 and earlier versions of Motif.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n9. Why doesn't my widget get destroyed when I call XtDestroyWidget()?\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nSee section 2.8 of the Xt specification.\n\nIt eventually does get destroyed, just not immediately. The\nIntrinsics destroy a widget in a two-phase process. First it and all\nof its children have a flag set that indicate it is being destroyed.\nIt is then put on a list of widgets to be destroyed. This way any\npending X events or further references to that widget can be cleaned\nup before the memory is actually freed. The second phase is then\nperformed after all callbacks, event handlers, and actions have\ncompleted, before checking for the next X event. At this point the\nlist is traversed and each widget's memory is actually free()'d, among\nother things.\n\nAs some further caveats/trivia, the widgets may be destroyed if the\nIntrinsics determine that they have no further references to the\nwidgets on the list. If so, then the phase 2 destruction occurs\nimmediately. Also, if nested event loops are used, widgets placed on\nthe destroy list before entering the inner event loop are not\ndestroyed until returning to the outer event loop.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n10. How do I exit but still execute the DestroyCallbacks?\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nThe problem is if a simple and entirely reasonable approach to exiting\nan application is used, such as calling exit() directly, then a widget\nmay not have a chance to clean up any external state -- such as open\nsockets, temporary files, allocated X resources, etc. (this code for\nsimplicity reasons assumes only a single toplevel widget):\n\n\n\tWidget\n\tToplevelGet (gw)\n\t\tWidget\t\tgw;\t\t/* widget to find toplevel */\n\t{\n\t\tWidget\t\ttop;\n\n\t\tfor (top = gw; XtParent (top); top = XtParent (top))\n\t\t\t/* empty */;\n\t\treturn (top);\n\t}\n\n\tvoid\n\tExitCallback (gw, closure, call_data)\n\t\tWidget\t\tgw;\t\t/* widget */\n\t\tXtPointer\tclosure;\t/* data the app specified */\n\t\tXtPointer\tcall_data;\t/* widget specific data */\n\t{\n\t\tWidget\t\ttoplevel;\n\n\t\ttoplevel = ToplevelGet (gw);\n\t\tXtUnmapWidget (toplevel);\t/* make it disappear quickly */\n\t\tXtDestroyWidget (toplevel);\n\t\texit (0);\n\t}\n\nOne can see that the above code exit's immediately after destroying\nthe toplevel widget. The trouble is the phase 2 destruction may never\noccur. \n\nThis works for most widgets and most applications but will not work\nfor those widgets that have any external state. You might think that\nsince it works now it will always work but remember that part of the\nreason an object oriented approach is used is so one can be ignorant\nof the implementation details for each widget. Which means that the\nwidget may change and someday require that some external state is\ncleaned up by the Destroy callbacks.\n\nOne alternative is to modify ExitCallback() to set a global flag and\nthen test for that flag in a private event loop. However, private\nevent loops are frowned upon because it tends to encourage sloppy, and\ndifficult to maintain practices.\n\nTry the following code instead.\n\n\t#include \n\n\textern Widget ToplevelGet (\n\t#if NeedFunctionPrototypes\n\t\tWidget\t\tgw\n\t#endif\n\t);\n\n\textern Boolean ExitWorkProc (\n\t#if NeedFunctionPrototypes\n\t\tXtPointer\tclosure\n\t#endif\n\t);\n\n\textern void ExitCallback (\n\t#if NeedFunctionPrototypes\n\t\tWidget\t\tgw,\n\t\tXtPointer\tclosure,\n\t\tXtPointer\tcall_data\n\t#endif\n\t);\n\n\tWidget\n\tToplevelGet (gw)\n\tWidget\t\tgw;\t\t/* widget to find toplevel */\n\t{\n\t\tWidget\t\ttop;\n\n\t\tfor (top = gw; XtParent (top); top = XtParent (top))\n\t\t\t/* empty */;\n\t\treturn (top);\n\t}\n\n\n\tvoid\n\tExitCallback (gw, closure, call_data)\n\tWidget\t\tgw;\t\t/* widget */\n\tXtPointer\tclosure;\t/* data the app specified */\n\tXtPointer\tcall_data;\t/* widget specific data */\n\t{\n\t\tWidget\t\ttoplevel;\n\n\t\ttoplevel = ToplevelGet (gw);\n\t\tXtUnmapWidget (toplevel);\t/* make it disappear quickly */\n\t\tXtDestroyWidget (toplevel);\n\t\tXtAppAddWorkProc (XtWidgetToApplicationContext (gw),\n\t\t\t\t ExitWorkProc, (XtPointer) NULL);\n\t}\n\n\tBoolean\n\tExitWorkProc (closure)\n\t\tXtPointer\tclosure;\n\t{\n\t\texit (0);\n\t\t/*NOTREACHED*/\n\t}\n\n\nExitCallback() adds a work procedure that will get called when the\napplication is next idle -- which happens after all the events are\nprocessed and the destroy callbacks are executed.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n11. How do I resize a Shell widget?\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nAfter it is realized, one doesn't resize a Shell widget. The proper\nthing is to resize the currently managed child of the Shell widget\nusing XtSetValues(). The geometry change is then propagated to the\nShell which asks the window manager which may or may not allow the\nrequest. However, the Shell must have the resource\nXtNallowShellResize set to True otherwise it will not even ask the\nwindow manager to grant the request and the Shell will not resize.\n\nTo change the position of a Shell, use XtSetValues() on the Shell, not\nthe child, and within the limits of the window manager it should be granted.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n12. Why can't XtAppAddInput() handle files?\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nIt does, however Unix semantics for when I/O is ready for a file does\nnot fit most peoples' intuitive model. In Unix terms a file\ndescriptor is ready for reading whenever the read() call would not\nblock, ignoring the setting of optional flags that indicate not to\nblock. This works as expected for terminals, sockets and pipes. For\na file the read() will always return but the return indicates an EOF\n-- i.e. no more data. The result is the code in the Intrinsics always\ncalls the input handler because it always thinks something is about to\nbe read. The culprit is the select() system call or on SYSV based\nOS's it is the poll() system call.\n\nHow to get around this on a Unix system? The best approach is to use\nanother process to check for available input on the file. Use a pipe\nto connect the application with this other process and pass the file\ndescriptor from the pipe to XtAppAddInput(). A suitable program on\nBSD systems is \"tail -f filename\".\n\nIt's rumored that select() on some systems is not _completely_\nreliable. In particular:\n\n\t- IBM AIX 3.1: this is one where it would work for a while\n\t (several thousand times) and then stop until some other\n\t event woke it up. This seemed to be the result of a race\n\t condition in the Kernel. IBM claims to have a fix for this.\n\n\t- Pyramid, doesn't work at all.\n\n\t- Ultrix (and possibly others where pipes are implemented as\n\t sockets), wasn't completely broken, but although the writing\n\t side wrote in 512 byte blocks the reading side received it\n\t all broken up as if it was being put into the pipe a byte at\n\t a time. You can waste a lot of time by reading small blocks\n\t (get raound it by detecting the situation and having\n\t select() ignore the pipe for 10 mseconds - by then it had\n\t been given the whole block).\n\n\nNote that all the above descriptions used Unix terminology such as\nread(), file descriptor, pipes, etc. This is an OS dependent area and\nmay not be identical on all systems. However the Intrinsic designers\nfelt it was a common enough operation that it should be included with\npart of the toolkit. Why they didn't also deal with signals at this\npoint I don't know.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n13. What good books and magazines are there on Xt?\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nI have a favorite that is the definitive reference. To my perspective\nit offers a reasonable introduction but also goes into the full\ndetails of the Intrinsics. When I started using it I was already\nfamiliar with Xt and the concepts behind it, so newcomers may or may\nnot find it useful. I've always found it accurate and complete, which\nmeans its a 1000 pages.\n\nAsente, Paul J., and Swick, Ralph R., \"X Window System Toolkit, The\n\tComplete Programmer's Guide and Specification\", Digital Press,\n\t1990, ISBN 1-55558-051-3, order number EY-E757E-DP; and by\n\tPrentice-Hall, ISBN 0-13-972191-6. Also available through DEC\n\tDirect at 1-800-DIGITAL.\n\nThe other book I commonly recomend to novices is:\n\nYoung, Doug. \"The X Window System: Applications and Programming with\n\tXt (Motif Version),\" Prentice Hall, 1989 (ISBN 0-13-497074-8).\n\t(ISBN 0-13-972167-3)\n\nAnd of course O'Reilly has an entire series of manuals on X and Xt.\nO'Reilly ordering is 800-998-9938. In particular, Volume 5 is an Xt\nreference done in manual page style. The 3rd edition is extensively\noverhauled and goes far beyond the MIT manual pages. I'm finding it\nvery useful. In particular, the permutted index and references to\nother manual pages help a great deal in chasing down related\ninformation.\n\nI read two periodicals, \"The X Resource\" and the \"The X Journal\".\nThese are the only two dealing specifically with X. \"The X Resource\"\nis published quarterly, by O'Reilly, with one of the issues being the\nMIT X Consortium Technical Conference Proceedings. There is no\nadvertising. I've found it informative with pretty good depth. For\norders, call 1-800-998-9938, or email cathyr@ora.com. For editorial\nmatters, email adrian@ora.com. Table of contents are posted at\nmath.utah.edu in ~ftp/pub/tex/bib in TeX form and on ftp.uu.net in\n~ftp/published/oreilly/xresource in ASCII form.\n\n\n\"The X Journal\" is a bimonthly trade rag with lots of advertising.\nThe articles are informative and oriented toward a less technical\naudience. I read it more to see what's going on then with an\nexpectation of learning a great deal (but remember, I represent a\nfairly small percentage of people). Also, they have a pretty good\ncollection of people on the advisory board and as columnists. Call\n(908) 563-9033.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n14. What Widgets are available?\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nThere are three popular widget sets:\n\nAthena\t- The set provided with X11. This is sufficient for most\n\t purposes but is on the ugly side. Recently, a 3d look is\n\t available for ftp on export.lcs.mit.edu:/contrib/Xaw3d.tar.Z.\nMotif\t- From OSF available for a license fee and commonly shipped on\n\t many workstation vendors platforms (almost everyone but\n\t Sun). It looks good and works well but personally I think\n\t it is poorly implemented.\nOLIT\t- The Open Look Intrinsics Toolkit is a set of widgets\n\t implementing Sun's Open Look specification. Developed by\n\t AT&T. I've never used it so can't comment on its quality.\n\t I've heard rumours that it is a pain to actually get.\n\nIn addition the following collection of widgets are also available:\n\nXtra\t- a library of widgets for sale from Graphical Software\n\t Technology (310-328-9338). It includes bar graph, stacked\n\t bar graph, line graph, pie chart, xy plot, hypertext, help,\n\t spreadsheet, and data entry form widgets. I've never seen\n\t them so I can't comment.\nFWF\t- The Free Widget Foundation is attempting to collect a set of\n\t freely available widgets. Included are a Pixmap editor,\n\t FileDialog, and a few others. The current set of widgets\n\t can be obtained via anonymous ftp from the machine\n\t a.cs.uiuc.edu (128.174.252.1) in the file pub/fwf.shar.Z.\nXcu\t- The Cornell University widgets from Gene Dykes. One of the\n\t early widget sets released. Provides a nice appearance for\n\t buttons and has a mini command language. Probably not so\n\t widely used.\nXs\t- The Sony widget set. This was around during R3 days but\n\t seemed to disappear. It looked like it had promise.\nXw\t- The HP widgets. The precursor to Motif. Originally written\n\t for R3 there exists diffs to get it to work under R4 & R5.\n\t Again, a pretty good widget set but has more or less died.\n\t The precursor to this was the Xray toolkit which was\n\t originally implemented for X10R4 and apparently provided\n\t much experience for the designers of Xt.\nXo\t- A widget set I'm working on. It's still primitive but you\n\t can give it a try in archive.cis.ohio-state.edu:pub/Xo/*\n\nThe following specialized widgets are also available:\n\nTbl\t- Implements a tabular layout of widgets. Supports Motif\n\t widgets as children. Part of Wcl.\nPlots\t- The Athena Plotting widgets (not the Athena widgets).\n\t Contact gnb@bby.oz.au or joe@Athena.MIT.EDU.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n15. What alternatives to the Intrinsics are there?\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n\t__________________________________________\n\tName\t\tLanguage\tVendor\n\t__________________________________________\n\tXview\t\tC\t\tSun\n\tOI\t\tC++\t\tParcPlace\n\tInterviews\tC++\t\tStanford\n\tTcl/tk\t\tC\t\tsprite.berkeley.edu\n\t__________________________________________\n\n\nHowever much I like C and admire the skill in both designing and\nimplementing the Intrinsics, hopefully some alternative will develop\nin the next 3-5 years that uses an object oriented language. Keep\nyour eyes open and expect some change about the same time a language\nother than C _starts_ gaining acceptance.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n16. How do I pass a float value to XtSetValues?\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nFirst, what is going wrong is the structure for an Arg is (essentially)\n\ttypdef struct\n\t{\t\n\t String\tname;\n\t long\tvalue;\n\t} Arg;\n\nand the code:\n\tArg\targ;\n\n\tXtSetArg (arg, \"name\", 3.2)\n\nexpands to\n\tArg\targ;\n\n\targ.name = \"name\";\n\targ.value = 3.2;\n\nyou can see that with normal C type conversions, the arg.value\ngets the integer \"3\" instead of the floating point value \"3.2\". When\nthe value is copied into the widget resource, the bit pattern is\nwildly different than that required for a floating point value. So,\nhow to get around this?\n\nThe following macro is from the Athena widgets document and I am now\nrecomending it over the previous suggestions.\n\n#define XtSetFloatArg(arg, n, d) \\\n if (sizeof(float) > sizeof(XtArgVal)) { \\\n XtSetArg(arg, n, &(d)); \\\n } else { \\\n XtArgVal *ld = (XtArgVal *)&(d); \\\n XtSetArg(arg, n, *ld); \\\n }\n\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n17. How do I write a resource converter?\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nCourtesy of Rich Thomson (rthomson@dsd.es.com):\n\nThe following discussion of resource converters assumes R4 (or R5)\nIntrinsics. Resource converters changed between R3 and R4 to allow\nfor destructors and caching of converted values.\n\nThere are several main types of resource converters:\n\n string to data type\n data type to string\n data type to data type\n\ni) string to data type\n Usually a string to data type converter has a fixed set of strings\n that will be converted to data type values. This is most often\n used to map enumerated names to enumerated values:\n\n\tName\t\tValue\n\t\"True\"\t\t1\n\t\"False\"\t\t0\n\n In this case, the string to data type converter needs to compare\n the resource value to the list of fixed strings. This is most\n readily accomplished by the use of the \"quark\" mechanism of the\n resource manager. The resource value is turned into a quark,\n which is a unique representation of the string that fits into a\n single word. Then the resource quark is compared against the\n quarks for the fixed strings representing the enumerated values.\n\n If there are many enumerated strings in the converter (or many\n converters, each with a small number of enumeration strings), then\n a global initialization routine might be used to turn all the\n resource strings into quarks. That way, the first time one of\n these converters is used, the strings will be turned into quarks\n and held in static variables for use in the next invocation of one\n of the converters.\n\nii) data type to string\n This type of converter is slightly easier than the string to data\n type converters since the use of quarks isn't necessary. Instead,\n the data type value is simply converted to a string value,\n probably by the use of sprintf.\n\n Data type to string converters are useful for applications that\n wish to convert an internal data type value into a string so that\n they can write out a valid resource specification to a file. This\n mechanism can be used to provide a \"snapshot\" of application state\n into a file. This snapshot can be used to restore the program to\n a known state via the usual X resource database mechanisms.\n\n If you are taking the trouble to write a string to data type\n converter, it isn't much extra effort to write the data type to\n string converter. Writing both at the same time helps to ensure\n that they are consistent.\n\niii) data type to data type\n This type of converter is used to convert an existing data type\n value to another data type. For instance, an X pixel value can be\n converted to an RGB data type that contains separate fields for\n red, green and blue.\n\n\nThe type signature for a resource converter is as follows:\n\ntypedef Boolean (*XtTypeConverter)(Display *, XrmValuePtr, Cardinal *,\n\tXrmValuePtr, XrmValuePtr, XtPointer *);\n Display *dpy;\n XrmValuePtr args;\n Cardinal *num_args;\n XrmValuePtr fromVal;\n XrmValuePtr toVal;\n XtPointer *converter_data;\n\nWhen the converter is invoked, the \"fromVal\" argument points to the source\nX resource manager value and the \"toVal\" argument points to the\ndestination X resource manager value. The \"converter_data\" argument\nis an opaque pointer to some converter-specific data that is specified\nwhen the converter is registered. The \"args\" and \"num_args\" arguments\nallow extra information to be passed to the converter when it is\ninvoked. For instance, the Pixel to RGB structure converter discussed\nabove would need colormap and visual arguments in which to lookup the\nPixel to obtain the RGB values corresponding to that pixel.\n\nCare must be taken with the \"toVal\" argument. An XrmValue has the\nfollowing type definition and specifies a size and location for a\nconverted value:\n\ntypedef struct {\n unsigned int size;\n caddr_t addr;\n} XrmValue, *XrmValuePtr;\n\nWhen the converter is invoked, the address may point to a location of\nthe given size for the converted value or the location can be NULL.\nIn the former case, the converter should ensure that the size of the\ndestination area is large enough to handle the converted value. If\nthe destination area is not large enough, then the converter should\nset the size to the amount of space needed and return False. The\ncaller can then ensure that enough space is allocated and reinvoke the\nconverter. If the size is large enough, then the converter can simply\ncopy the converted value into the space given and return True.\n\nIf the location is NULL, then the converter can assign the location to\nthe address of a static variable containing the converted value and\nreturn True.\n\nWhen writing a group of converters, this code is often repeated and it\nbecomes convenient to define a macro:\n\n #define DONE(var, type) \\\n if (toVal->addr) \\\n\t{ \\\n\t if (toVal->size < sizeof(type)) \\\n\t { \\\n\t toVal->size = sizeof(type); \\\n\t return False; \\\n\t } \\\n\t else \\\n\t *((type *) toVal->addr) = var; \\\n\t} \\\n else \\\n\ttoVal->addr = (caddr_t) &var; \\\n toVal->size = sizeof(type); \\\n return True;\n\n #define DONESTR(str) \\\n if (toVal->addr && toVal->size < sizeof(String)) \\\n\t{ \\\n\t toVal->size = sizeof(String); \\\n\t return False; \\\n\t} \\\n else \\\n\ttoVal->addr = (caddr_t) str; \\\n toVal->size = sizeof(String); \\\n return True;\n\nInside the converter, it is a good idea to perform a little safety\nchecking on the \"num_args\" and \"args\" arguments to ensure that your\nconverter is being called properly.\n\nOnce you have written your converter, you need to register it with the\nIntrinsics. The Intrinsics invokes resource converters when creating\nwidgets and fetching their resource values from the resource database.\n\nTo register a converter with a single application context, use\nXtAppSetTypeConverter:\n\nvoid XtAppSetTypeConverter(context, from, to, converter, args, num_args,\n\tcache, destructor)\n XtAppContext context;\n String from;\n String to;\n XtTypeConverter converter;\n XtConvertArgList args;\n Cardinal num_args;\n XtCacheType cache;\n XtDestructor destructor;\n\nTo register a converter with all application contexts, use\nXtSetTypeConverter:\n\nvoid XtSetTypeConverter(from, to, converter, args, num_args,\n\tcache, destructor)\n String from;\n String to;\n XtTypeConverter converter;\n XtConvertArgList args;\n Cardinal num_args;\n XtCacheType cache;\n XtDestructor destructor;\n\nIn the R3 Intrinsics, there were the routines XtAppAddConverter and\nXtAddConverter; these have been superseded by XtAppSetTypeConverter\nand XtSetTypeConverter. Whenever possible, the newer routines should be\nused.\n\nWhen a converter is registered with the Intrinsics, a \"cache\" argument\nspecifies how converted resource values are to be cached:\n\n XtCacheNone\t\tDon't cache any converted values\n XtCacheAll\t\tCache all converted values\n XtCacheByDisplay\tCache converted values on a per display basis\n\nCaching converted values that require a round-trip to the server is a\ngood idea (for instance string to Pixel conversions).\n\nThe \"destructor\" argument is a routine that is invoked then the\nresource is destroyed, either because its cached reference count has\nbeen decremented to zero or because the widget owning the value is\nbeing destroyed. XtDestructor has the following type definition:\n\ntypedef void (*XtDestructor)(XtAppContext, XrmValuePtr, XtPointer,\n\tXrmValuePtr, Cardinal *);\n XtAppContext context;\n XrmValuePtr to;\n XtPointer converter_data;\n XrmValuePtr args;\n Cardinal *num_args;\n\nThe destructor is invoked to free any auxiliary storage associated\nwith the \"to\" argument, but does not actually free the storage pointed\nto by the \"to\" argument itself (to->addr). The destructor is passed\nthe extra arguments that were passed to the converter when the\nconversion was performed (for instance, colormap and visual arguments\nfor the string to Pixel converter since the destructor would need to\nfree the allocated Pixel from the colormap) as well as the private\ndata passed in when the converter was registered.\n\nSample converter code can be found in the following files in the MIT\nR5 distribution:\n\n mit/lib/Xt/Converters.c\n contrib/lib/PEXt/Converters.c\n contrib/lib/PEXt/Converters.h\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n18. How do I open multiple displays?\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nSee \"Multi-user Application Software Using Xt\", The X Resource, Issue 3,\n(Summer 1992) by Oliver Jones for a complete coverage of the issues\ninvolved. Most of this answer is based on that article. In a\nnutshell, one uses XtOpenDisplay() to add each display to a _single_\napplication context and then XtCloseDisplay() to shutdown each display\nand remove it from the application context.\n\nThe real problems occur when trying to close down a display. This can\nhappen 3 ways:\n\t1. User selects a \"quit\" button on one of the displays,\n\t2. User has window manager send a WM_DELETE_WINDOW message,\n\t3. Server disconnect -- possibly from a KillClient message,\n\t server shutdown/crash, or network failure.\n\nI'll assume you can deal gracefully with 1 & 2 since it is _merely_ a\nproblem of translating a Widget to a display and removing that\ndisplay. If not, then read the Oliver Jones article.\n\nThe third one is difficult to handle. The following is based on the\nOliver Jones article and I include it here because it is a difficult\nproblem.\n\nThe difficulty arises because the Xlib design presumed that an I/O\nerror is always unrecoverable and so fatal. This is essentially true\nfor a single display X based application, but not true for a\nmultiple display program or an application that does things other than\ndisplay information on an X server. When an X I/O error occurs the\nI/O error handler is called and _if_ it returns then an exit()\nhappens. The only way around this is to use setjmp/longjmp to avoid\nreturning to the I/O error handler. The following code fragment\ndemonstrates this:\n\n#include \njmp_buf XIOrecover;\n\nvoid\nXIOHandler (dpy)\n\tDisplay\t\t*dpy;\n{\n\tdestroyDisplay (dpy);\n\tlongjmp (XIOrecover, 1);\n}\n\nmain ()\n{\n\t...\n\tif (setjmp (XIOrecover) == 0)\n\t\tXSetIOErrorHandler (XIOHandler);\n\tXtAppMainLoop (app_context);\n}\n\nThe destroyDisplay() is something that given a Display pointer can go\nback to the application specific data and perform any necessary\ncleanup. It should also call XtCloseDisplay().\n\nFor those of you unfamiliar with setjmp/longjmp, when setjmp() is\nfirst called it returns a 0 and save's enough information in the\njmp_buf that a latter execution of longjmp() can return the program to\nthe same state as if the setjmp() was just executed. The return value\nof this second setjmp() is the value of the second argument to\nlongjmp(). There are several caveats about using these but for this\npurpose it is adequate.\n\nSome other problems you might run into are resource converters that\nimproperly cache resources. The most likely symptoms are Xlib errors\nsuch as BadColor, BadAtom, or BadFont. There may be problems with the\ntotal number of displays you can open since typically only a limited\nnumber of file descriptors are available with 32 being a typical\nvalue. You may also run into authorization problems when trying to\nconnect to a display.\n\nThere was much discussion in comp.windows.x about this topic in\nNovember of 91. Robert Scheifler posted an article which basically\nsaid this is the way it will be and Xlib will not change.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n19. What changed from R3 to R4 to R5?\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nThis addresses only changes in the Intrinsics. First, the general\nchanges for each release are described. Then a, certainly incomplete,\nlist of new functions added and others that are now deprecated are\nlisted. Brevity is a primary goal.\n\nMuch of the following information is retrieved from Chapter 13 of the MIT\nXt Intrinsics Manual and from O'Reilly Volume 5, 3rd edition.\n\nFrom R3 to R4\n- Addition of gadgets (windowless widgets)\n- New resource type converter interface to handle cacheing and\n additional data.\n- Variable argument list interface.\n- #define XtSpecificationRelease 4 (added with this release)\n- WMShellPart, TopLevelShellPart & TransientShellPart changed\n incompatibly.\n- core.initialize, core.set_values added ArgList and count parameters\n- event handlers had continue_to_dispatch parameter added\n- core.set_values_almost specification changed.\n- core.compress_exposure changed to an enumerated data type from Boolean\n- core.class_inited changed to enumerated data type from Boolean\n- constraint.get_values_hook added to extension record\n- core.initialize_hook obsolete as info is passed to core.initialize\n- shell.root_geometry_manager added to extension record\n- core.set_values_hook obsolete as info is passed to core.set_values\n- Calling XtQueryGeometry() must store complete geometry.\n- Added UnrealizeCallback.\n- XtTranslateCoords() actually works under R4.\n\nFrom R4 to R5:\n- Psuedo resource baseTranslation added.\n- Searching for app-default, and other files, made more flexible\n- customization resource added.\n- Per-screen resource database.\n- Support permanently allocated strings.\n- Permanetly allocated strings required for several class fields.\n- The args argument to XtAppInitialize, XtVaAppInitialize,\n XtOpenDisplay, XtDisplayInitialize, and XtInitialize were changed\n from Cardinal* to int*\n- Many performance improvements (this is summarized from the article\n \"Xt Performance Improvements in Release 5\" by Gabe Beged-Dov in \"The\n X Resource\", Issue 3):\n\t- XrmStringToQuark() augmented with XrmPermStringToQuark() to\n\t avoid string copies. Several fields in the class record are\n\t indicated as needing permanent strings.\n\t- Using an array of Strings for resources\n\t- Callback lists redesigned to use less memory\n\t- Translation manager redesigned and rewritten so it takes\n\t less memory, translation tables merges are faster, cache of\n\t action bindings\n\t- Keycode to Keysyms are cached.\n\t- Better sharing of GC's with modifiable fields\n\t- Window to Widget translation uses less space and faster\n\t- Does not malloc space for widget name since quark is available\n\t- Widget space is allocated to include the constraints\n\t- Over several example programs, about a 26% reduction in\n\t memory usage.\n\nFunctions new with R5:\n----------------------\nXtAllocateGC()\t\t- sharable GC with modifiable fields \nXtGetActionList()\t- get the action table of a class\nXtScreenDatabase()\t- return resource database for a screen\nXtSetLanguageProc()\t- register language procedure called to set locale\n\n\nFunctions new with R4:\n----------------------\nXtAppAddActionHook()\t- procedure to call before _every_ action.\nXtAppInitialize()\t- lots of initialization work.\nXtAppReleaseCacheRefs()\t- decrement cache reference count for converter\nXtAppSetFallbackResources() - specify default resources\nXtAppSetTypeConverter()\t- register a new style converter\nXtCallCallbackList()\t- directly execute a callback list\nXtCallConverter\t()\t- invoke a new style converter\nXtCallbackReleaseCacheRef() - release a cached resource value\nXtCallbackReleaseCacheRefList() - release a list of cached resource values\nXtConvertAndStore()\t- find and call a resource converter\nXtDirectConvert()\t- Invoke old-style converter\nXtDisplayOfObject()\t- Return the display\nXtDisplayStringConversionWarning() - issue a warning about conversion\nXtFindFile()\t\t- Find a file\nXtGetActionKeysym()\t- Retrieve keysym & modifies for this action\nXtGetApplicationNameAndClass() - return name and class\nXtGetConstraintResourceList() - get constraints for a widget\nXtGetKeysymTable()\t- return keycode-to-keysym mapping table\nXtGetMultiClickTime()\t- read the multi-click time\nXtGetSelectionRequest()\t- retrieve the SelectionRequest event\nXtGetSelectionValueIncremental() - obtain the selection value incrementally\nXtGetSelectionValuesIncremental() - obtain the selection value incrementally\nXtInitializeWidgetClass() - initialize a widget class manually\nXtInsertEventHanlder()\t- register event handler before/after others\nXtInsertRawEventHandler() - register event handler without modify input mask\nXtIsObject()\t\t- test if subclass of Object\nXtIsRectObj()\t\t- test if subclass of RectObj\nXtKeysymToKeyCodeList()\t- return list of keycodes\nXtLastTimestampProcessed() - retrieve most recent event time\nXtMenuPopdown\t\t- Action for popping down a widget\nXtMenuPopup\t\t- Action for popping up a widget\nXtOffsetOf\t\t- macro for structure offsets\nXtOwnSelectionIncremental() - make selection data availabe incrementally\nXtPoupSpringLoaded()\t- map a spring-loaded popup\nXtRegisterGrabAction()\t- indicate action procedure needs a passive grab\nXtRemoveActiohHook()\t- remove function called after every action\nXtResolvePathname()\t- find a file\nXtScreenOfObject()\t- return screen of object.\nXtSetMultiClickTime()\t- set the multi-click time\nXtSetWMColormapWindows() - set WM_COLORMAP_WINDOWS for custom colormaps\nXtUngrabButton()\t- cancel a passive button grab\nXtUngrabKey()\t\t- cancel a passive key grab\nXtUngrabKeybard()\t- release an active keyboard grab\nXtUngrabPointer()\t- release an active pointer grab\nXtVa*()\t\t\t- varags interfaces to a bunch of functions\nXtWindowOfObject()\t- return Window of nearest widget ancestor\n\n\nDeprecated\t\tReplacement\t\t\tWhen\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nXtAddActions()\t\tXtAppAddActions()\t\tR3\nXtAddConverter()\tXtAppAddConverter()\t\tR3\nXtAddInput()\t\tXtAppAddInput ()\t\tR3\nXtAddTimeout()\t\tXtAppAddTimeout()\t\tR3\nXtAddWorkProc()\t\tXtAppAddWorkProc()\t\tR3\nXtConvert()\t\tXtConvertAndStore()\t\tR4\nXtCreateApplicationShell XtAppCreateShell()\t\tR3\nXtDestroyGC()\t\tXtReleaseGC()\t\t\tR3\nXtError()\t\tXtAppError()\t\t\tR3\nXtGetErrorDatabase()\tXtAppGetErrorDatabase\t\tR3\nXtGetErrorDatabaseText() XtAppGetErrorDatabaseText\tR3\nXtGetSelectionTimeout()\tXtAppGetSelectionTimeout\tR3\nXtInitialize()\t\tXtAppInitialize()\t\tR3\nXtMainLoop()\t\tXtAppMainLoop()\t\t\tR3\nMenuPopdown(action)\tXtMenuPopdown(action)\t\tR4\nMenuPopup(action)\tXtMenuPopup(action)\t\tR4\nXtNextEvent()\t\tXtAppNextEvent()\t\tR3\nXtPeekEvent()\t\tXtAppPeekEvent()\t\tR3\nXtPending()\t\tXtAppPending()\t\t\tR3\nXtSetErrorHandler()\tXtAppSetErrorHandler()\t\tR3\nXtSetErrorMsgHandler\tXtAppSetErrorMsgHandler()\tR3\nXtSetSelectionTimeout()\tXtAppSetSelectionTimeout()\tR3\nXtSetWarningHandler()\tXtAppSetWarningHandler()\tR3\nXtSetWarningMsgHandler() XtAppSetWarningMsgHandler()\tR3\nXtWarning()\t\tXtAppWarning()\t\t\tR3\nXtWarningMsg()\t\tXtAppWarningMsg()\t\tR3\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n20. Where are the resources loaded from?\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nThe resources of a widget are filled in from the following places\n(from highest priority to lowest priority):\n\n\t1. Args passed at creation time.\n\t2. Command line arguments.\n\t3. User's per host defaults file\n\t4. User's defaults file.\n\t5. User's per application default file.\n\t6. System wide per application default file.\n\nNote that 2-6 are read only once on application startup. The result\nof steps 3-6 is a single resource database used for further queries.\n\nThe per host defaults file contains customizations for all\napplications executing on a specific computer. This file is either\nspecified with the XENVIRONMENT environment variable or if that is not\nset then the file $HOME/.Xdefaults- is used.\n\nThe user defaults file is either obtained from the RESOURCE_MANAGER\nproperty on the root window of the display or if that is not set then\nthe file $HOME/.Xdefaults is used. Typically, the program \"xrdb\" is\nused to set the RESOURCE_MANAGER property. Please note that this\nshould be kept relatively small as each client that connects to the\ndisplay must transfer the property. A size of around 1-3KByte is\nreasonable. Some toolkits may track changes to the RESOURCE_MANAGER\nbut most do not.\n\nA user may have many per application default files containing\ncustomizations specific to each application. The intrinsics are quite\nflexible on how this file is found. Read the next part that describes\nthe various environment variables and how they effect where this file\nis found.\n\nThe system wide per application default files are typically found in\n/usr/lib/X11/app-defaults. If such a file is not found then the\nfallback resources are used. The intrinsics are quite flexible on how\nthis file is found. Read the next part that describes the various\nenvironment variables and how they effect where this file is found.\n\n[Thanks to Oliver Jones (oj@pictel.com) for the following, 6/92]\n\nYou can use several environment variables to control how resources are\nloaded for your Xt-based programs -- XFILESEARCHPATH,\nXUSERFILESEARCHPATH, and XAPPLRESDIR. These environment variables\ncontrol where Xt looks for application-defaults files as an\napplication is initializing. Xt loads at most one app-defaults file\nfrom the path defined in XFILESEARCHPATH and another from the path\ndefined in XUSERFILESEARCHPATH.\n\nSet XFILESEARCHPATH if software is installed on your system in such a\nway that app-defaults files appear in several different directory\nhierarchies. Suppose, for example, that you are running Sun's Open\nWindows, and you also have some R4 X applications installed in\n/usr/lib/X11/app-defaults. You could set a value like this for\nXFILESEARCHPATH, and it would cause Xt to look up app-defaults files\nin both /usr/lib/X11 and /usr/openwin/lib (or wherever your\nOPENWINHOME is located):\n\n\tsetenv XFILESEARCHPATH /usr/lib/X11/%T/%N:$OPENWINHOME/lib/%T/%N\n\nThe value of this environment variable is a colon-separated list of\npathnames. The pathnames contain replacement characters as follows\n(see XtResolvePathname()):\n\n\t%N\tThe value of the filename parameter, or the\n\t\tapplication's class name.\n\t%T\tThe value of the file \"type\". In this case, the\n\t\tliteral string \"app-defaults\"\n\t%C\tcustomization resource (R5 only)\n\t%S\tSuffix. None for app-defaults.\n\t%L\tLanguage, locale, and codeset (e.g. \"ja_JP.EUC\")\n\t%l\tLanguage part of %L (e.g. \"ja\")\n\t%t\tThe territory part of the display's language string\n\t%c\tThe codeset part of the display's language string\n\nLet's take apart the example. Suppose the application's class name is\n\"Myterm\". Also, suppose Open Windows is installed in /usr/openwin.\n(Notice the example omits locale-specific lookup.)\n\n\t/usr/lib/X11/%T/%N means /usr/lib/X11/app-defaults/Myterm\n\t$OPENWINHOME/lib/%T/%N means /usr/openwin/lib/app-defaults/Myterm\n\nAs the application initializes, Xt tries to open both of the above\napp-defaults files, in the order shown. As soon as it finds one, it\nreads it and uses it, and stops looking for others. The effect of\nthis path is to search first in /usr/lib/X11, then in /usr/openwin.\n\nLet's consider another example. This time, let's set\nXUSERFILESEARCHPATH so it looks for the file Myterm.ad in the current\nworking directory, then for Myterm in the directory ~/app-defaults.\n\n\tsetenv XUSERFILESEARCHPATH ./%N.ad:$HOME/app-defaults/%N\n\nThe first path in the list expands to ./Myterm.ad. The second expands\nto $HOME/app-defaults/Myterm. This is a convenient setting for\ndebugging because it follows the Imake convention of naming the\napp-defaults file Myterm.ad in the application's source directory, so\nyou can run the application from the directory in which you are\nworking and still have the resources loaded properly.\n\nNOTE: when looking for app-default files with XUSERFILESEARCHPATH,\n for some bizarre reason, neither the type nor file suffix is\n defined so %T and %S are useless.\n\nWith R5, there's another twist. You may specify a customization\nresource value. For example, you might run the \"myterm\" application\nlike this:\n\n\tmyterm -xrm \"*customization: -color\"\n\nIf one of your pathname specifications had the value\n\"/usr/lib/X11/app-defaults/%N%C\" then the expanded pathname would be\n\"/usr/lib/X11/app-defaults/Myterm-color\" because the %C substitution\ncharacter takes on the value of the customization resource.\n\nThe default XFILESEARCHPATH, compiled into Xt, is:\n\n\t\t/usr/lib/X11/%L/%T/%N%C:\\ (R5)\n\t\t/usr/lib/X11/%l/%T/%N%C:\\ (R5)\n\t\t/usr/lib/X11/%T/%N%C:\\ (R5)\n\t\t/usr/lib/X11/%L/%T/%N:\\\n\t\t/usr/lib/X11/%l/%T/%N:\\\n\t\t/usr/lib/X11/%T/%N\n\n(Note: some sites replace /usr/lib/X11 with a ProjectRoot in this\nbatch of default settings.)\n\nThe default XUSERFILESEARCHPATH, also compiled into Xt, is \n\n\t\t/%L/%N%C:\\ (R5)\n\t\t/%l/%N%C:\\ (R5)\n\t\t/%N%C:\\ (R5)\n\t\t/%L/%N:\\\n\t\t/%l/%N:\\\n\t\t/%N:\n\n is either the value of XAPPLRESDIR or the user's home directory\nif XAPPLRESDIR is not set. If you set XUSERFILESEARCHPATH to some\nvalue other than the default, Xt ignores XAPPLRESDIR altogether.\n\nNotice that the quick and dirty way of making your application find\nyour app-defaults file in your current working directory is to set\nXAPPLRESDIR to \".\", a single dot. In R3, all this machinery worked\ndifferently; for R3 compatibilty, many people set their XAPPLRESDIR\nvalue to \"./\", a dot followed by a slash.\n\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n21. What order are callbacks executed in?\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n(Courtesy of Donna Converse, converse@expo.lcs.mit.edu; 5/10/92)\n\nThe Intrinsics library do not guarantee an order. This is because\nboth the widget writer and the application writer have the ability to\nmodify the entire contents of the callback list. Neither one\ncurrently knows what the other is doing and so the Intrinsics cannot\nguarantee the order of execution.\n\nThe application programmer cannot rely on the widget writer; the\nwidget writer is not required to document when the widget will add and\nremove callbacks from the list or what effect this will have;\ntherefore the functionality contained in a callback should be\nindependent of the functionality contained in other callbacks on the\nlist.\n\nEven though the Xt standard in the definition of XtAddCallback\n\n \t\"callback_name: Specifies the callback list to which the\n \tprocedure is to be appended.\"\n \nyou may not infer from the word \"appended\" that the callback routines\nare called in the same order as they have been added to the callback\nlist.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n22. How do I know if a widget is visible?\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n(Courtesy of Donna Converse, converse@expo.lcs.mit.edu; 5/14/92)\n\n\nRight, everything is implemented correctly. This demonstrates a \"deficiency\"\nin the X protocol, and the Core widget is reflecting the capabilities of the\nprotocol. (The \"deficiency\" is that the information is available in one way,\nin this case an inconvenient way.) The Xt specification is accurate, in\nthe second and third paragraphs of section 7.10.2, so read this section\ncarefully. The visible field will not change in response to iconification.\n\nA VisibilityNotify event will not be received when the window goes from\nviewable to unviewable, that is, when the widget or an ancestor is unmapped;\nthat is, when iconification occurs. This is the protocol deficiency.\nVisibility state and viewable state have specific meanings in the X protocol;\nsee the glossary in your Xlib and X protocol reference manual.\n\n\nYou'll see this with any window manager, with no window manager.\n\n\nAs an application writer, keep track with a global Boolean in an action\nroutine with translations for MapNotify and UnmapNotify on the Shell widget\nwhich contains your custom widget. As the custom widget writer, see the\nmap_state field returned by a call to XGetWindowAttributes. These are\nsuggestions.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n23. How do I reparent a widget in Xt, i.e. XtReparentWidget()?\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nYou can't.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n24. Why use XtMalloc, XtFree, etc?\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nUnfortunately, most code that calls malloc(), realloc() or calloc()\ntends to ignore the possibility of returning NULL. At best it is\nhandled something like:\n\n\tptr = (type *) malloc (sizeof (type))\n\tif (!ptr)\n\t{\n\t\tperror (\"malloc in xyzzy()\");\n\t\texit (1)\n\t}\nTo handle this common case the Intrinsics define the functions\nXtMalloc(), XtCalloc(), XtNew(), XtNewString() and XtRealloc() which\nall use the standard C language functions malloc(), calloc() and\nrealloc() but execute XtErrorMsg() if a NULL value is returned. Xt\nerror handlers are not supposed to return so this effectively exits.\n\nIn addition, if XtRealloc() is called with a NULL pointer, it uses\nXtMalloc() to get the initial space. This allows code like:\n\n\tif (!ptr)\n\t\tptr = (type *) malloc (sizeof (type));\n\telse\n\t\tptr = (type *) realloc (ptr, sizeof (type) * (count + 1));\n\t++count;\n\nto be written as:\n\n\tptr = XtRealloc (ptr, sizeof (ptr) * ++count);\n\nAlso, XtFree() accepts a NULL pointer as an argument. Generally, I've\nfound the Xt functions conveniant to use. However, anytime I'm\nallocating anything potentially large I use the standard functions so\nI can fully recover from not enough memory errors.\n\nXtNew() and XtNewString() are conveniant macros for allocating a\nstructure or copying a string:\n\n\t struct abc *xyzzy;\n\t char\t *ptr;\n\t char\t *str = \"abcdef\";\n\n\t xyzzy = XtNew (struct abc);\t/* takes care of type casting */\n\t ptr = XtNewString (str);\n\nA strict interpretation of the Intrinsics reference manual allow an\nimplementation to provide functions that are not exchangable with\nmalloc() and free(). I.e. code such as:\n\n\t char\t *ptr;\n\n\t ptr = XtMalloc (100);\n\t /* ... */\n\t free (ptr);\n\nmay not work. Personally, I'd call any implementation that did this\nbroken and complain to the vendor.\n\nA common error for Motif programmers is to use XtFree() on a string\nwhen they should really be using XmStringFree().\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n25. How to debug an Xt application?\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFirst, I'd recomend getting \"purify\" from Pure Software. This is a\ngreat package for tracing memory problems on Sun's. It's a bit pricey\nat $2750 but I'd still recomend it. Excuse the marketing blurb\n(contact support@pure.com for more info).\n\n\tPurify inserts additional checking instructions directly into\n\tthe object code produced by existing compilers. These\n\tinstructions check every memory read and write performed by\n\tthe program under test and detect several types of access\n\terrors, such as reading unitialized memory, writing past\n\tmalloc'd bounds, or writing to freed memory. Purify inserts\n\tchecking logic into all of the code in a program, including\n\tthird party and vendor object-code libraries, and verifies\n\tsystem call interfaces. In addition, Purify tracks memory\n\tusage and identifies individual memory leaks using a novel\n\tadaption of garbage collection techniques. Purify's nearly\n\tcomprehensive memory access checking slows the target program\n\tdown typically by a factor of two to five.\n\nAn alternative package that isn't as pricey ($395 for a Sun), runs on\nmany Unix's and has pretty similar features is \"The SENTINEL Debugging\nEnvironment\". This replaces malloc() and several other C library\nfunctions to add additional checks. (contact cpcahil@virtech.vti.com\nfor more info)\n\nNext, if you are getting any sort of Xlib error, you'll need to run in\nsynchronous mode, easily accomplished with the \"-sync\" command line\nargument or by setting the variable Xdebug to 1 with your debugger. Then\nset a break point in exit(). This will let you trace back to the\noriginal Xlib function being called. If you don't run in synchronous\nmode, then the actual error may have occured any number of calls to\nXlib previously since the Xlib calls are buffered and replies from the\nserver are asynchronous.\n\nNext, if you are having trouble with window layout, you can use the\nundocumented resource \"xtIdentifyWindows\" or the class resource\n\"XtDebug\" to cause the widget name to be identified with each window.\nFor example:\n\n example% xload -xrm '*XtDebug:true' &\n example% xwininfo -tree\n\t \n\nwill give the normal information but the widget name and class of each\nwindow is included. This can help for checking the location and size\nof errant widgets.\n\nNext, if you are having trouble with geometry managers or you want to\ntest the way a widget manages it's children, you can try\nexport.lcs.mit.edu:contrib/libXtGeo.tar.Z. This acts as a filter\nbetween any children and a geometry manager and checks the behaviour\nof both. It's a very clever idea.\n\nThe most unfortunate problem is debugging a callback while the\napplication is executing a grab of the keyboard or mouse (such as from\na pulldown menu). The server effectively locks up and you'll need to\ngo to another machine and kill the debugger manually. The server\nlocks up because the application being debugged has said no one else\ncan have access to the keyboard but the application is not stopped\nwaiting because the debugger is waiting for your commands.\nUnfortunately you can't give them because all the input is going to\nyour application which is stopped.\n\nThe best way to debug this kind of problem is with two machines on\nyour desk, running the program under a debugger (or other environment)\non one machine, and running the application on the other, possibly\nusing a command sequence like this:\n\n\tothermachine% xhost +thismachine\n\tthismachine% setenv DISPLAY othermachine:0;\n\tthismachine% gdb application\t# Your favorite debugger.\n\tor this:\n\tothermachine% xhost +thismachine\n\tthismachine% gdb application\n\t(gdb) set environment DISPLAY othermachine:0\n\t(gdb) run ...\n\nI believe CodeCenter, a C interpreter/graphical debugger has a method\nof dealing with this by explicitely calling the Xlib functions to\nrelease any grabs during breakpoints.\n\nDebugging widget problems requires pretty good debugging skills and\nknowledge of how widgets work. You can go a long way without knowing\nthe internals of a particular widget but not very far without\nunderstanding how a widget works. Judicious use of conditional\nbreakpoints and adding print statements with the debugger help a great\ndeal.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n26. Why don't XtAddInput(), XtAddTimeout() and XtAddWorkProc() work?\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n I have got a delicate problem with the three routines XtAddInput,\n XtAddTimeOut and XtAddWorkProc. The problem I have is that when\n I use them in my application they seem not to be registred properly.\n I have made a handy little testprogram where everything works\n perfect, but in my \"real\" application nothing happens. \n\nThe introduction in R3 of the XtApp*() functions obsoleted those\nroutines (see Q19 for other changes in R3, R4, and R5). What happens is\nthey use a default application context different then the one you may\nhave created. Since events and timeouts are distributed on a per\napplication context basis and you are using two application contexts,\nyou won't get those events.\n\nFor example:\n\n\t...\n\tcnt = 0;\n\ttoplevel = XtAppInitialize(&app, class,\n\t\t\t\t Desc, XtNumber (Desc),\n\t\t\t\t &argc, argv,\n\t\t\t\t Fallback, args, cnt);\n\n\tXtAddTimeOut (...)\n\tXtAddWorkProc (...)\n\n\tXtAppMainLoop (app)\n\nwould never invoke the timeout.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n27. What is and how can I implement drag and drop?\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n(Courtesy of Roger Reynolds, rogerr@netcom.com; 19 Feb 93)\n\nDrag-n-drop is a buzzword for moving data between clients, in an\n``intuitive'' fashion.\n\nMotif Version 1.2 supports drag-n-drop capabilities, OpenLook has\nsupported d-n-d all along. The two protocols are not compatable with\neach other, and so far as I know, they are not published.\n\nI wrote a package called RDD which is designed to be a flexible public\nprotocol for doing drag 'n drop operations between clients. My\nintention was to provide a tool which would make it easy for people to\nsupport a \"standard\" drag-n-drop protocol in the programs they develop\nand contribute or sell, regardless of what widget set is used (as long\nas it is based on Xt).\n\nThe implementation is based upon my understanding of the ICCCM\nconventions, for more details read the code.\n\nI have heard from dozens of people using RDD who like it and feel that\nit works a whole lot better than Motif 1.2 stuff. Also, there seem to\nbe many who think that it is neat but are constrained to use Motif\nanyway.\n\nThe latest RDD (and some other stuff) is available for ftp from\nnetcom.com, in /pub/rogerr. A (possibly older) version is also\navailable on export.lcs.mit.edu in /contrib.", "\n\n\n\nCompare the Driver to an urge such as Jealousy, where there is an urge\nand an \"object\". The jealousy does not technically exist until the object\nis apparent. However, the capacity to be jealous is presumably still there\neven though it is not detectable.\n\nYour description of the Unbilical took me three passes to understand (!) but\nI get the gist and I have to tentatively agree. I think our two definitions\ncan sit side by side without too much trouble, though. I haven't attempted to\ndefine the reason behind the Moral Driver (only hinted through the essence of\neach Moral). Your definition hints that animals are also capable of a\nsimilar morality - Simians have a similar Social Order to ourselves and it is\neasy to anthropomorphize with these animals. Is this possible or have I\nmisunderstood?\n\n\nMy p.s. thoughts falls roughly in line with John Stuart Mill and\nhis writings on Utilitarianism. I have no particular plan (except to do\nmy bit - personal ethics AND social work). My opinion (for what it is worth)\nis that the Authority for each Moral must be increased somehow, and that this\nwill probably take several generations to be effective. I don't think that the\nlist of Morals has changed for Society significantly, though . The Authority element\nmay come from our authority figures and roles models (see Eric Berne and his\ntransactional analysis work [+ Mavis Klein] for references) and this is what\ngives rise to a deterioration of moral standards in the long term.\n\nI've had some more thoughts on my definitions:\n\nI've was thinking that I should add Moral Character to the list of definitions\nin order to get a dynamic version of the Moral Nature (ie. the interplay of\nthe Moral Code and associated Authorities). A suitable analogy might be a\ngraphic equaliser on a HiFi system - the Moral Nature being the set of\nfrequencies and the chosen 'amplitudes', and the Moral Character being the\nspectrum over time.\n\nConscience is a little more difficult because I can't define it as the\nreasoning of a person between actions in the context of his Moral Nature\nbecause Conscience seems to cut in most of the time unbidden and often\nunwanted. I think Conscience is manifest when a decision is made at a given\ntime which compromises one's Moral Nature. My Conscience fits in more with\nFreud's SuperEgo (plus the Moral Driver) with the stimulous being the\nurges or Freud's Id. The reasoning that I mentioned before is Freud's Ego,\nI suppose. If the Moral Driver is part of the Id then the reason why\nConscience cuts in unbidden is partially explained. The question is \"what\nprovides the stimulous to activate the Moral driver?\". I think I need some\nmore time with this one.\n\nThat's about it for now!\n\nDavid.\n\n---\nOn religion:", "\nThe proper spelling is Kirlian. It was an effect discoverd by\nS. Kirlian, a soviet film developer in 1939.\n\nAs I recall, the coronas visible are ascribed to static discharges\nand chemical reactions between the organic material and the silver\nhalides in the films.\n", "\n\n\nKnow any Mormons?\n\n\nKnow for a fact that this was happening? State of Texas says it wasn't,\nand they held a trial to prove it.\n\n\nSure we can. The top two things are perfectly legal. The bottom one\nisn't. The person here who can't distinguish seems to be you.\n\n\nSo the constitution is only for people you approve of. Fine, fine.\nI usually refer to that as \"elitism,\" because \"bigotry\" is so negative.\n\n\nKnowing that people like you are out there really gives me warm fuzzies.\n\n\n-- ", "\n\nblechhhh. Gimme that ole' time Inquisition ...\n\n\nIt figures, doesn't it?", "Quoting jgfoot@minerva.cis.yale.edu in article <1r3jgbINN35i@eli.CS.YALE.EDU>:\n", "\n\nWell, that's the question, isn't it? The goals are probably not all that\nobvious. We can set up a few goals, like happiness and liberty and\nthe golden rule, etc. But these goals aren't inherent. They have to\nbe defined before an objective system is possible.\n\n\nIt is not too difficult, one you have goals in mind, and absolute\nknoweldge of everyone's intent, etc.\n\n\nOmniscience is fine, as long as information is not given away. Isn't\nthis the resolution of the free will problem? An interactive omniscient\nbeing changes the situation.\n\n\nWell, I was speaking about an objective system in general. I didn't\nmention a specific goal, which would be necessary to determine the\nmorality of an action.", " >>I see you are a total ignorant asshole as well.\n >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ It's the sign of a small mind to use filthy\n >language when he can't articulate his point.\n\nOh, no, not in this case. I've noticed that you conveniently edited out your\nstupid comment that the PRC stands for Cambodia. When we're arguing the\nVietnam war and about Cambodia, and you toss in a boner like that (along\nwith your other boners), you are an ignorant asshole.\n\nOh, and even the Vietnamese agree that they did far more damage to\nCambodia than we ever did.\n\n\n\n\n-- \nThere are actually people that STILL believe Love Canal was some kind of\nenvironmental disaster. Weird, eh?", "You a good case for rights to abortion.", "\nNot quite correct. Biblical teaching expects us to celebrate the\nresurrection of Christ not once a year but every time someone is baptized.\n Col. 2:12-Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him\nthrough the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the\ndead.\" Rom. 6:4-Therefore we are buried with him in baptism into death:\nthat like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the\nFather, even so we also should walk in newness of life.\"\nThose really want to celebrate the resurrection should by faith walk in\nnewness of life after baptism. It is not necessary to celebrate a pagan\ngoddess in the process.\n\nPaul answered your question in Romans 9. In v. 4 he stated that the\nadoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of\nGod, and the promises were given to the Israelites. It is a package deal.\n He goes on to identify those who are true Israelites. Vs 6-8 makes it\nplain that the true Israelites are not those who are born that way but\nthose who accept the promise of God. Paul continued to emphasize that he\nwas an Israelite in 2 Cor. 11:22, then in Gal 3:29 he says that all those\nwho belong to Christ are Abraham's seed, and heirs to all the promises\ngiven to the Israelites. The promises come with the law. It is all or\nnothing. Why is it that you only want to discard one part of the law? \nCertainly you would want your husband to be faithful to you. Or do you\nbelieve that adultery is no longer forbidden? Same law.\n\nBTW please give a reference for your statement that the Gentiles are only\nrequired to observe the basis commandmants. Could you list those\nplease. Acts 15 deals with circumcision and the law of Moses which was\nadded because of transgression of God's eternal law (Gal 3:19; Rom 4:15)", "\nPardon me? *I* am trying to apply human terms to non-humans?\n\nI think there must be some confusion here. I'm the guy who is\nsaying that if animal behaviour is instinctive then it does *not*\nhave any moral sugnificance. How does refusing to apply human\nterms to animals get turned into applying human terms?\n\n\nI'm sure you do think this, if you say so. How about trying to\nconvince me?\n\n\nI've offered, four times, I think, to accept your definition if\nyou allow me to ascribe moral significence to the orbital motion\nof the planets.\n\n\nAh, the law of \"silly\" and \"less silly\". what Mr Livesey finds \nintuitive is \"silly\" but what Mr Schneider finds intuitive is \"less \nsilly\".\n\nNow that's a devastating argument, isn't it.", "\noh yes, i'm quite sure they will :)", "\n\n:So we try to ensure that the process of deciding whether to introduce\n:third parties isn't random. As Steve said above, there are examples\n:where third parties *are* less ignorant or corrupt than the two\n:primary parties; should this knowledge not be able to help?\n\nOf course it helps, but only if the decision to involve third parties\nis the primary partis' to make. A corrupt and ignorant third party\nisn't going to say, \"we're corrupt and ignorant, we'll stay out of this\".\nPointing out that they are corrupt and ignorant won't help, they either\nwon't believe you or won't care.\n\n\n:> It's impossible (or at least beyond my abilities) to formulate a rule\n:>that will always tell whether the involvement of a third party would be\n:>good or bad, but there's one that seems better than any other I've ever\n:>heard suggested: voluntary good, mandatory bad. That is, a third\n:>party should involve itself in a transaction ONLY at the request of\n:>the primary participants.\n:So we *don't* formulate a rule that will always tell; we try to use\n:knowledge about other properties of situations. To some of us, it\n:appears that trying always to apply \"voluntary good, mandatory bad\"\n:is not only less than optimal, it is in some circumstances seriously\n:damaging. The interesting question is to characterize those\n:circumstances as best we can.\n\nLook, somebody has to have the power to decide whether a third party\nwill regulate your transactions or not. That somebody is going to\nbe either you or the third party. You can argue until you are\nblue in the face that regulators shouldn't get involved (in fact, people\nhave tried this), they won't listen. The fundamental question you\nhave to ask is, whose decision is it whether or not to involve regulators,\nours or theirs? After you've answered thed first question, you can\ntry to move on to such questions as \"should regulators be involved\" and, if\nso, \"what regulations are appropriate?\" Although with your answer to\nthe first question, the second and third are taken out of your hands.\n", "\n\nI'm sure you are not. After the \"San Francisco\" Earthquake \na couple of years ago, there was a flurry of traffic on \ntalk.religion.misc about how this was the result of the \nnotorious homo- this that and t'other in the City.\n\nThe fact that the Earthquake was actually down the road in\nSanta Cruz/Watsonville didn't seem to phase them any.", "\nIndeed, an extreme example. It came \"out of nowhere.\" The connection\nKekule saw between it and his problem is fortunate but not extraordinary.\nI, for example, often receive/conjure solutions (hypotheses for solutions) \nto my everyday problems at moments when I appear to myself to be occupied \nwith activities quite removed. Algorithms for that new software feature come\nwhen I trample the meadow on my occasional runs. Alternative (better>) ways \nto instruct and rear my sons arrive while I weed the garden. I'll swear I am \nnot thinking about any of it when ideas come. \n\nThese ideas are not the stuff of \"great\" discoveries, of course, but my\nconnecting them to particular problems is fraught with deliberation and\noccasional fits of rationality.\n\n\nYes. And he was lucky to have such a colorful, vivid image. I, alas, will\nnever figure out why returning worms to the loose soil of my garden brought, \n\"have him count objects instead of merely count\" to mind regarding my 2 \nyear-old's fledging arithmetic skills.\n\n\nThe latter. Worms wiggling around in the dirt fascinate my son.\n\nRegards,\n\nTed ", "\n\n\n\nI was told that this is an environmental based move. I was also told that\nthere will be 'somthing' else to replace the battery club. Like maybe\nthe 360K floppy club ;-).\n\nWe'll see ....", "\nIn the interests of saving badnwidth during this \"heated\" time of the\nyear (viz. the early flurry of \"retard\" comments coming from a certain\nstate whose name starts with P and ends with A), why don't you tell us\nsomething we don't already know?\n\nGeorge", "\n\nNo, it does not.\n\n-- \n\"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live\n in the real world.\" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden", "\n\n\nI'm just waiting for Andi to tell us that African Americans should\nstart paying compensation to White Americans who \"suffered\" from being \nslave owners.\n", "\n\t\t ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\tAmazing. And I thought only California got April.", "Just a quick THANKS to the many who explained the backing up of my\nmasters. Apparently they are NOT copy-protected; I just used a program that\nis unable to handle high-density (old shit). I was surprised to hear that\n\"NO programs on high-density disks have copy protection,\" which someone\nback there said. Huh! Learn something new every day!", ": Concerning the proposed newsgroup split, I personally am not in favor of\n: doing this. I learn an awful lot about all aspects of graphics by reading\n: this group, from code to hardware to algorithms. I just think making 5\n: different groups out of this is a wate, and will only result in a few posts\n: a week per group. I kind of like the convenience of having one big forum\n: for discussing all aspects of graphics. Anyone else feel this way?\n: Just curious.\n\n\n: Daemon\n\nWhat he said...\n\n-- ", "SOMEONE PLEASE BUY THESE BOOKS!!!!! I AM NOT ASKING MUCH!!!!!!\n\nJUST MAKE ME AN OFFER AND I WILL PROBABLY TAKE IT!!!!!\n\n* Calculus w/ Analytic Geometry by Authur B. Simon (copyright date 1982), below avg condition but still readable! \n\n* Writing good software in Fortran, Graham Smith. \n\n* The Holt Handbook by Kirszner & Mandell (copyright 1986) 720+ page writing guide. \n\n* Algebra & Trigonometry, A problem Solving Approach, 3rd edition by W. Flemming and D. Varberg. Very good condition.\n\n* General Chemistry Principles & Modern Applications, R. Petrucci, fourth\n edition. Big Book! Very good condition!\n\n* Solutions manual for Chemistry book. Paperback.\n\n* Study guide for Chemistry book. Paperback.\n\n\nSend me your offers via email at 02106@chopin.udel.edu\n\n", "It was a gift from God. I think basically the reasoning was that the\ntradition in the Church held that Mary was also without sin as was Jesus.\nAs the tenets of faith developed, particularly with Augustine, sin was\nmore and more equated with sex, and thus Mary was assumed to be a virgin\nfor life (since she never sinned, and since she was the spouse of God, etc.)\nSince we also had this notion of original sin, ie. that man is born with\na predisposition to sin, and since Mary did not have this predisposition\nbecause she did not ever sin, she didn't have original sin. When science\ndiscovered the process of conception, the next step was to assume that\nMary was conceived without original sin, the Immaculate Conception.\n\nMary at that time appeared to a girl named Bernadette at Lourdes. She \nrefered to herself as the Immaculate Conception. Since a nine year old \nwould have no way of knowing about the doctrine, the apparition was deemed\nto be true and it sealed the case for the doctrine.\n\nRCs hold that all revelation comes from two equally important sources, that\nbeing Sacred Scripture and Holy Tradition. In this case, mostly tradition.", "-> Actually, the words \"A well regulated Milita, being necessary to the\n-> security of a free state\" is a present participle, used as an\n-> adjective to modify 'militia', which is followed by the main clause of\n-> the sentence, the subject being 'the right', the verb 'shall'. It\n-> asserts that the right to keep and bear arms is essential for\n-> maintaining a milita. \n-> a free state.\n\nYes, I agree the first half of the amendment does modify the noun \nmilitia. But the difinition of modify that applies to how \"well regulated\" \nmodifies \"militia\" is:\n\tto qualify or limit the meaning of. For example, \"wet\"\n\tmodifes \"day\" in the phrase \"a wet day.\"\n\nThe amendment is similiar to the statement:\n\tA wet day, being annoying, the right of the people to keep\n\tand wear boots, shall not be infringed.\nSo how does a dry day pertain the right to use boots? Similiar,\nwhat does the \"unorganized militia\" have to due with the right to\nown guns?\n\n-> The sentence [in the Second Amendment] doesn't restrict the right, or\n-> state or imply possession of the right by anyone or anything other\n-> than the people. All it does is make a positive statement regarding a\n-> right of the people. The PEOPLE, as in you and me, as in the First,\n-> Fourth, Ninth, Tenth, as well as the Second amendment.\n-> The existence of this right is assumed - it is not granted by the\n-> amendment. There is no stated or implied condition relating the right\n-> to bear arms to the necessity of a well-regulated militia to the security of\n-> In other words, the entire sentence says that the right to keep and\n-> bear arms is UNCONDITIONAL.\n\nNo not, unconditional, but \"shall not be infringed\". Infringed\nis defined as:\n\tTo break or ignore the terms of or obligations (an oath, \n\tan agreement, law, or the like); to disreguard; violate.\n\tTo go beyond the boundaries or limits; tresspass; encroach.\nThis definition implies the following of some form of existing \nagreement. Laws and agreements are made in advance. Boundaries \nor limits of behavior are set by society as a whole. The word \n\"unconditional\" implies no agreements or all previous agreements \nare off, which is the opposite.\n\nThe words used in the first amendment are much stronger, i.e.,\n\"congress shall make no law,\" are much stronger. They clearly \n\t ^^^^^^^^^^^\nimply \"unconditional.\" If the writers of the amendment, wanted \nunconditional whay didn't they says, \"congress shall make no \nlaws pertaining the the right of the people to keep and bear arms\"?\nThe second amendment implies a sort contract between the people\nthe people and the state. The bigger part of the contract is\nthe people have the right to overthrew the government and its laws\nat any time. To guarantee this right, the laws cannot stopped\nthe people from forming a \"well regutaled militia.\" The duties\nof a \"well regulated militia\" to the government are descussed in \nFederalist No. 29. And the limits of of the governmental control\nof the militia are descussed in Article I Section 8, Article II \nSection 2, and the Second Amendment of the constitution.\n", "I have a nice quote that I like (or as close as I can remember it).\n\nIf I say something that you think is crazy, ask me what I mean before you think\nits crazy.. \n\nSo some of my ideas are a bit odd, off the wall and such, but so was Wilbur and\nOrville Wright, and quite a few others.. Sorry if I do not have the big degrees\nand such, but I think (I might be wrong, to error is human) I have something\nthat is in many ways just as important, I have imagination, dreams. And without\ndreams all the knowledge is worthless.. \n\nSorry my two cents worth. Or is it two rubles worth?\n\nThe basic quote idea is from H. Beam Pipers book \"Space Vikings\". Its a good\nbook on how civilization can fall, and how it can be raised to new heights.", "\n\nThis is a whole different situation. If aliens were able to get here prior\nto us being able to get there, one might conclude that they would be more advanced\nand therefore \"more intelegent\" that we are. However if we get somewhere where there\nis life, chances are we wont be able to communicate with them. So we will have\nno clue as to weather they are \"intelegent\" or not.\n\n\nThat's a good point, I hadn't thought of it that way. My question however was\nmore along the lines of... Every year the US spends millions of tax dollars\nand giving tax breaks to individuals and companies who feed the poor of foreign\ncountries while thousands of our own people sleep on the streets at night.\nWould we give to the economicly dissadvantaged on another planet if we hadn't resolved\nthese issues on our own?\n\n\nBut... Your comment brings up another good question. Over the years we have decided\nthat certain cultures need improvements. The native americans is a good example. Prior\nto our attempt to civilize them, the native american culture had very little crime, no\nhomelessnes, no poverty. Then the europeans came along and now they have those and\nmore. If we encounter life elsewhere, do we tell them they have to live in houses, farm\nthe land and go to church on sunday?\n-- \nHave a day,", "\nIt is a bit unfair to call blame the Clinton Administration alone...this\ninitiative was underway under the Bush Administration...it is basically\na bipartisan effort of the establishment Demopublicans and\nRepublicrats...the same bipartisan effort that brought the S&L scandal,\nand BCCI, etc.", "It's irritating when someone mis-labels \"us\" as \"fundamentalists\",\nisn't it? This sort of thing may help us understand why some muslims \nrather resent being put under this label.", "Not to change the subject, but how was Fr. Gobbi allowed at Notre Dame? Notre\nDame is an anti Catholic University. Was this allowed to show that the\ncrackpots at Notre Dame believe in freedom of speech? I am glad that they did\nallow him to speak.", "I have read -just today- two articles dripping of hate and offence to\na great deal of people. I could find as much matching hatred in your\narticles as I have found in some of the self-righteous \"Kill-in-the-name\nof God\" people.\n\nI don't know why you are so attcaking to everyone, is it a reaction to\nthe hatred calls on this newsgroup, or is it a reaction to hardships\nyou have seen and experienced from before...\nI have learnt not to judge people by only what they say, but rather\ntry to put myself in their place and aspire to understand their\nfeelings.\n\nI hope you would be able to do the same with everyone, starting by your\nownself, because only through that you could be able to understand your\nfeelings and act in a the manner you would aspire everyone to adopt.\n\nThanks for your time", "\nI don't know about everybody else, but to me, they should have been\nconvicted BECAUSE of the evidence, which in my mind was quite\nsufficient.", "\n\nYou're kidding, right? This is Flame bait in the extreme. V-max handling?\nHar har har har....", "\n\n\nI really disagree with you. But maybe you know better. Here is the \nissue at hand:\n\n\n 'After all, who remembers today the extermination of the Tartars?'\n (Adolf Hitler, August 22, 1939: Ruth W. Rosenbaum (Durusoy), \n \"The Turkish Holocaust - Turk Soykirimi\", p. 213.)\n\n\n \"The crime of systematic cleansing by mass killing and extermination \n of the Muslim population in Soviet Republic of Armenia, Karabag, \n Bosnia and Herzegovina is an 'Islamic Holocaust' comparable to the \n extermination of 2.5 million Muslims by the Armenian Government \n during the WWI and of over 6 million European Jews during the WWII.\"\n (Tovfik Kasimov - Azeri Leader - September 25, 1992)\n \n\n \"Today's ethnic cleansing policies by the Serbian dictatorship against\n Croatians and Muslims of Yugoslavia, as well as the Soviet Republic\n of Armenia's against the Muslim population of neighboring Azerbaijan,\n are really no different in their aspirations than the genocide \n perpetrated by the Armenian Government 78 years ago against the\n Turkish and Kurdish Muslims and Sephardic Jews living in these\n lands.\" (Cebbar Leygara - Kurdish Leader - October 13, 1992)\n\n\nSerdar Argic", ": : 42 is 101010 binary, and who would forget that its the\n: : answer to the Question of \"Life, the Universe, and Everything else.\"\n: : Of course the Question has not yet been discovered...\n: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n: But it WAS discovered (sort of). The question was \"What is 7 times 8?\"\n\n[ Read on and there's a special prize at the bottom. Amaze your friends\nand gain respect from your peers that you can carry on so long about the\nnumber 42. ]\n\nThe original question was \"What is the meaning of Life, the Universe, and\nand Everything.\" The answer generated by Deep Thought (the 2nd largest\ncomputer ever created) was 42. Deep Thought realized that to understand\nthe answer, one must really know what the question is. Unfortunately, he\ndidn't. But he was able to help build the largest computer (named Earth)\nwhich could figure out the real question. (I know this is background\nknowledge for everyone here... just bear with me a sec... :)\n\nWhen Arthur pulled the scrabble tiles out of the bag, he spelled out\n\"What is nine times six?\" (or the like). However, it is not clear that\nthe monkey-man had the right question in his brain, especially since it\nwas that lady in the diner (which was vaporized moments later) that came\nup with the answer to how everyone could get along. On the other hand,\nMarvin said he saw the answer in Dent's brain, so lets presume it's \ncorrect.\n\nWell, NINE TIMES SIX ***IS*** FORTY-TWO!!! ...in base 13.\n\nChew on that for awhile... :)\n\n--\nChris Russell Custom software, networks, CASE tools, and consulting\nAdaptive Solutions Sun SPARC, SGI IRIS, HP Apollo, Macintosh, & PC", "(Anthony \n\nIf she doesn't welcome the excruciating pain of labor, the\nselfish bitch deserves to die in childbirth. She was probably\nlying about the rape anyway.", "I need to reduce the speed of a Boxer fan by about 30-50%. I recall\nreading somewhere that the right capacitor in series will do it.\n\nIf this isn't a case of brain fade, can someone suggest the cap value ?\n\nThe specifics; It's a real Boxer Fan (tm). The label says 115 V, .2 amps.\n\nAl Dykes", "\nOnce the Rushdie situation exploded into the media, the Muslim voice on\nthe matter of the book was effectively restricted to short video bytes\nshowing\nthe dramatic highlights of Muslim demonstrations. For every twenty or so\nnewspaper, magazine articles, interviews etc. supporting Rushdie, there\nwould\nappear one Muslim voice. This person was usually selected based on how\ndramatic and incoherent he was, not on his knowledge of Islam or the\nsituation at the time. This approx. twenty to one ratio continued\nthroughout the escalation of the crisis, with Rushdie in the central\nspotlight as the man of the moment, the valiant defender of everyman's\nright to free speech decoupled from responsibility. (As an aside, it's\ninteresting that while the hue and cry about freedom of speech went up,\nsome books (defaming certain ethnic and religious groups) continued\nto be banned here. It was felt that they injured the sensibilities of these\n\ngroups and presented a false image which could promote feelings of \nhate towards these groups. For Muslims this kind of double standard \nwas annoying.)\n\nRushdie saw this spotlight as a golden opportunity to lash out at\n\"organized\"\nIslam, and he did so with admirable verbal skill. The only kind of Islam\nwhich Rushdie finds palatable is what he calls a \"secular\" Islam - an Islam\nseparated from it's Qur'an, it's Prophet, God, its legislation, and most\nimportantly from any intrusion into any political arena. Fine - Rushdie\nmade\nhis views known - the Muslim's made their anger at his book known. The\nscale of the whole affair erupted into global proportions - it was, by this\ntime,\nalready a political situation - affecting governments as well as\nindividuals.\nThe situation was a serious one, with far-reaching political implications.\nAt the centre of this turmoil was Rushdie, throwing fuel on the fire -\nengaged\nin a personal crusade that made him oblivious to any sense of caution.\n\nNow you may feel that the person in the centre of a worldwide storm such as\n\nthis has no responsibility, has no reason to exercise restraint of any\nkind, has no\nobligation to perhaps step back momentarily out of the spotlight till\nmatters calm down. Perhaps you even feel that he is justified in \"boldly\"\ndefying the anger of all those who dare to take umbrage at his literary\nwork, no matter what insult they find within it. Perhaps you see him as\na kind of secular \"heroic Knight\",mounted on the his media steed,\n doing battle with the \"dragon\" of Islamic \"fundamentalism\".\n\nWell Khomeini saw him as a disingeneous author who \ngrew up in a Muslim atmosphere, knew well what Muslim's hold dear, \nwho wrote a book which mischievously uses certain literary conventions\nto slander, insult, and attack Islam and its most notable personalities -\nwho, when\nfaced with a situation that became a worldwide crisis, continued with\nhis mischief in the world stage of the media - who, even after people were\ninjured and killed because of the magnitude and emotion of the situation,\ncontinued his mischief, instead of having the good sense to desist.\nKhomeini saw the crisis as mischief making on a grand scale, mischief\nmaking that grew in scale as the scale of the crisis enlarged. The deaths\nof Muslims around the world and Rushdie's continued media mischief\neven after this, was the triggering factor that seemed to\ndecide Khomeini on putting a stop to the mischief. The person at the\ncentre of all these events was Rushdie - he was the source of the\ncontinuing mischief - all media support, government support was\njust that - support. The source was Rushdie (and his publishers, who\nwere nothing short of ecstatic at the publicity and were very happy\nto see Rushdie constantly in the media). The Islamic rulings that\ndeal with people who engage in this kind of grand-scale mischief\nmaking, was applied to Rushdie.\n\n\nI have made no attempts at justification, only at explanation. \"Image\" is\nthe chief concern of Muslim 'apologists' for Islam and for Rushdie.\nIf Muslims willingly relegated themselves to becoming a sub-culture\nwithin a larger secular culture, such that the secular principles and laws\nhad precedence over the laws of Islam - then I have no doubt that Islam\nwould then be thought to have a good \"image\" (Principally because it would\nby and large reflect the secular image). A \"good image\" usually means \" be\nmore\nlike me\".\n\nYour attempts at TOTALLY exonerating Rushdie reflect exactly the attitude\nthat\nresulted in the polarization brought about by the crisis.\n", "Large bedroom for rent from June 1-Aug 15 in row house near JHU (Homewood).\nNo smokers or pets. Share house with 2 or 3 F law students. F professional/\nstudent wanted. 2 bath,large kitchen - remodeled last summer, hardwood floors,\nlr,dr, washer and dryer. Beautiful details. Rent $325 + 1/4 utilities.\nLocated on bus lines.", " \nTo construct a Kirlian device find a copy of _Handbook of Psychic\nDiscoveries_ by Sheila Ostrander and Lynn Schroeder 1975 Library of\nCongress 73-88532. It describes the necessary equipment and\n suppliers for the Tesla coil or alternatives, the copper plate and\nsetup. I used a pack of SX-70 film and removed a single pack in a\ndark room, then made the exposure, put it back in the film pack and\nran it out through the rollers of the camera forinstant developing\nand very high quality. It is a good way to experience what Kirlian\nPhotography is really and what it is not. As you know all ready,\nit is the pattern in the bioplasmic energy fieldthat is significant.\nVariations caused by exposure time, distance from the plate, or\npressure on the plate, or variations in the photo materials are not\nimportant.", "LEWB>> Lets add to those percentages 13-15% for the Orphaic docterians\nbrought LEWB>>to the group by Paul/Saul who was a high ranking initiate. On\nthe LEWB>>development of Orphaic Mysteries, see Jane Harrisons .Prolegomena\nto the LEWB>>study of Greek religion. Cambridge U Press 1922. and you can\neasly draw LEWB>>your own conclusions.\n \njosh> perhaps you can quote just a bit of her argument?", " [of who else but President of the United States William Jefferson Clinton.]\n\nTsk. Surely you don't wish for the Democrats to destroy our beloved country\njust so your party can get some trivial political advantage? That's rather\na petty way to think. (Not that this pettiness doesn't extend all the way\nto the U.S. Senate, I've noticed...)\n\nWhile Bush was president, I kept hoping and praying that he'd wise up. I\ncouldn't stand the man, but I wish he'd done a decent job; if so, we might\nnot be in the mess we are now, and that would be a small price to pay for\nsuffering through another term of Republican control. Similarily, YOU should\nbe hoping and praying that Clinton does a good job. Even if you're certain\nhe won't.", "\n\nGifts of the Spirit should not be seen as an endorsement of ones behavior.\nA lot of people have suffered because of similar beliefs. Jesus said\nthat people would come to Him saying \"Lord, Lord,\" and proclaiming\nthe miraculous works they had done in His name. Jesus would tell\nthem that they were workers of iniquity that do not know Him, and to\ndepart from Him. \n\nThat is not to say that this will happen to everyone who commits a homosexual\nsin. If the Holy Spirit were only given to the morally perfect, He would\nnot be given to me, or any of us. God can forgive any sin, if we repent.\nBut people should be careful not to think, \"God has given me a gift of\nthe Spirit, it must be okay to be gay.\" That is dangerous (see also hebrews\n6 about those who have partaken of the Holy Spirit and of the powers of \nthe world to come.)\n\n\nJesus doesn't ask us to change our own nature. We cannot lift ourselves\nout of our own sin- but we must submit to His hand as He changes our\nnature. Practicing homosexual acts and homosexual lusts violates the\nmorality that God has set forth. \n\nIf you don't believe that, and think those of us who do are just ignorant,\nthen at least consider us weak in the faith and be celebate for our sake's.\nIs practicing homosexuality worth the cost of a soul, whether it be the\nhomosexual's or the one considered \"ignorant?\"", "\n\n\n[chop]\n\nCould you please post it to the net too please, as I, and I'm sure many others\nwould like to know. Thanks!\nKev.\n", "\nI am familiar with the project. It is the Onboard Shuttle Flight\nSoftware Project. This software controls the Space Shuttle During\nall dynamic phases as well as on-orbit.\nIt has ultra-high reliability and extremely\nlow error rates. There have been several papers published on the\nsubject and I'll collect some references. There may be an\narticle in the IBM Systems Journal Late '93, early '94.\n\nThere is no magic formula. We did it with dedicated and disciplined\nfolks who worked to put together a process that finds and removes errors\nand is corrected based on errors that \"escape\". We present a\none day overview of our process periodically to interested folks.\nThe next one is May 19th in Washington, D.C. I can fax specifics\nto those who are interested.\n\nBret Wingert\nWingert@VNET.IBM.COM", "Where can you get info (brochures...) on Differential GPS Systems and where to \nbuy them?", "\nHey, now will you stop encouraging him? Copy protection only serves one pur-\npose: to keep the honest buyer from making (legal) backup copies. It will\ndefinitely not stop any pirates. If you want to protect you soft, supply a\ngood documentation and support. This is IMHO the *only* way of effectively pro-\ntecting software.\n\nBest Regards,\n\nArno\n\n-- ", "\nI guess your strength isn't in math. Clinton hasn't been president for\n6 months. In other words, it's BUSH'S Wiretapping Initiative.\nHave you?\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\"Who said anything about panicking?\" snapped Authur. Garrett Johnson\n\"This is still just culture shock. You wait till I've Garrett@Ingres.com\nsettled into the situation and found my bearings.\nTHEN I'll start panicking!\" - Douglas Adams ", "I just signed up for this group, so I hope I'm not missing something\nin a FAQ, but I'm looking for a good introduction to the mathematics\nof encryption -- particularly DES and Public-Key, though others would\nbe interesting also. Probably a good library could help me out, but I\nthought it might be even easier if I could obtain a nice article\nentirely electronically (besides, I have this rather *rational* phobia\nof libraries for reasons stemming from this \"dissertation\" thing\nhanging over my head :-)). \n\tI have a basic knowledge of mathematics... number-theory is a\nbit unfamiliar to me, but I've had a few graduate-level math courses\nin some other areas; anyway, I'm not a complete novice to the field.\nSo probably something aimed at a basic graduate introductory level\nwould be about right. Something, anyway, which is more specific than\n\"a really big prime number is generated to code the message\".\n\tIf someone knows of a good text available by ftp (or gopher),\nor would like to email me one... please let me know. I'll probably keep\nreading this group; but it would be nice if you would email me at the\nsame time, so I don't miss it.\n\nThanx, Lulu...", "[referring to Mary]\n\nI have quite a problem with the idea that Mary never committed a sin.\nWas Mary fully human? If it is possible for God to miraculously make \na person free of original sin, and free of committing sin their whole\nlife, then what is the purpose of the Incarnation of Jesus? Why can't\nGod just repeat the miracle done for Mary to make all the rest of us\nsinless, without the need for repentance and salvation and all that?\n\nI don't particularly object to the idea of the assumption, or the\nperpetual virginity (both of which I regard as Catholic dogma about which\nI will agree to disagree with my Catholic brothers and sisters in\nChrist), and I even believe in the virgin birth of Jesus, but this\nconcept of Mary's sinlessness seems to me to be at odds with the\nrest of Christian doctrine as I understand it.", "Date: 19 Apr 93 19:57:21 GMT\n From: jhart@agora.rain.com (Jim Hart)\n\n \"Simply?\" \"Everyone\" should have this attitude? The only people\n who can have this attitude are the most hard-core\n computer hackers, who never make phone calls away from their\n computer", "\n\t\t\t\t\t\t ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^", "\nNot to mention the thread about selling someone's wife. I am a guy, therefore\nnot overly bummed by it, but a little common sense would dictate that this\nis offensive to many women, and not really necessary.\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nScott Ferguson Exxon Research & Engineering Co.\nProject Engineer New Jersey", "hey folks,\n\nI'm fairly new to these groups, tho' some have heard from me before.\n\nI'd like to get your comments on a question that has been on my mind a\nlot: What morals/ethics apply to dreams and out-of-body incidents?\nIn normal dreams, you can't control anything, so obviously\nyou aren't morally responsible for your actions. But if you can contrive\nto control the action in dreams or do an OOBE, it seems like a morality applies.\n\nNow, there seem to be 3 alternatives:\n\n1) Dreams and OOBEs are totally mental phenomena. In this case no morality\napplies beyond what might be called 'mental hygiene', that is, not trying\nto think about anything evil, or indulgining in overly sexy or violent\nthoughts.\n\n2) Dreams and OOBEs have a reality of their own (i.e. are 'another plane')\nEvidence for this is that often dreams and OOBEs are sometimes done in\ncommon by more than one person. A\nmark of objective fact is that >1 people report the same objective experience.\nIn this case, the same interpersonal morality/ethics applies in dreams and\nOOBEs as does in waking life.\n\n3) Like (2), but here we assume that though the dreeam and OOBE environs have a\nreal existence, a different moral/ethics apply there, and no (or maybe \ndifferent) moral laws apply there.\n\nSo... There it is. Is one of these cases the truth, or does anyone know\nof another alternative? respond by post or email.\n\nthanks very much\n\n*dt*\n\n========================================================", "\nKhufu and Khafre are both patented (#5003597). Biham and Shamir showed\nthat differential cryptanalysis can break 16-round Khafre with a chosen-\nplaintext attack using 1500 different encryptions. Khafre with 24 rounds\ncan be broken with the same attack using 2^53 different encryptions.\n(There are probably more efficient differential cryptanalytic attacks, if\nsomeone wants to take the time to look.)\n\nKhufu has key-dependent S-boxes, and is immune to differential cryptanalysis.\nSource code for this algorithm (and Khafre) are in the patent.\n\nSnefru is a public-domain one-way hash function. The version of Snefru\nthat produces a 128-bit hash is vulnerable to differential cryptanalysis\n(vulnerable means that the attack is more efficient that brute force) for\nfour passes or less. Given that, SHA and MD5 are much more efficient.\n\nOh yes, anyone interested in licensing the patent should contact Dave Petre,\nDirector of Patent Licencing for Xerox, (203) 986-3231.", "\n Why is this surprising? Then the _Times_ can get a few more\nPulitzers the same way they did last year.\n-- ", "\nCalm down. It is not as if I tweaked the fount of the flame wars\nor anything (guns, anything to do with them).\n", "\nThe \"R Us\" thing is trademarked. I don't know if Charles\nLazarus is dead or alive, but I'd be careful, because with\na name like Lazarus, he might rise again just to start a\nlawsuit.\n\nDean Kaflowitz", "From article , by pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew):\n\n#> A very well put together post. I disagree with several key points, but the\n#> post is an excellent one with which to \"engage in discourse\":\n\nI agree wholeheartedly. Paul, you have handled this so well,\nI think that you could write ballot materials.\n\n\nNo, don't stop!\n\n#> Right to Equal Opportunity (lets call it REO) involves coercion in all cases\n#> (by definition).\n\n\nGood question. It just depends. How's that for an answer? :-)\nSeriously, I believe that it depends on wether or not you are\ntalking about a governmental employer or not. In this case, I\nbelieve that there should be absolutely no discrimination,\ndirect or indirect, period. I feel this way not because it would\noffend my moral sensibilities (which it of course would), but\nbecause the government is a coercive entity which we cannot\nescape. It boggles my mind that in my lifetime, there were\n\"whites only\" drinking fountains in some parks, but no fountains\nfor others, yet the taxes garnished to support those fountains\ncertainly were not applied to \"whites only.\" In essence, we\ncannot escape the coercive state. Even Randy Weavers have to pay\nproperty tax. On the other hand, private employers are not a\nmonopoly, and their businesses should be run by them, and not by\nthe government, unless they elect to turn their affairs over to\nthat government.\n\n#> Why? Says who? Why can mom & pop have FOA, but IBM be forced, and force is\n#> the correct word here, to have REO?\n\n\nBut if the mom & pop store is affected by who they hire,\nisn't IBM? There is a slippery slope here. In Santa Cruz\n(where a number of loony anti-discrimination laws exist),\na guy sued a restaurant for not hiring him because he had\nevery imaginable kitchen utensil dangling from his earlobe,\nand his tatoos were very distracting.\n\n#> Suddenly, by arm waving, by magic, a landlord does not have FOA. And on\n#> what basis does the FOA of the landlord \"disappear\"?\n\n#> It seems that vague terms like \"no contact with tenants\" suffice.\n\n\nI have a lot of interaction (all positive) with my tenants,\nso I guess that that isn't an issue. But say I were to buy\na unit in another town, and have it managed by a third party.\nLet's say that I have a real aversion to Christians because\nof the stuff that they buy into hook line and sinker, and\nbecause of the lunatic schmucks that they try to get elected.\nI don't want any of those fish symbols hanging in the window\nof a house that I own. Should the government intervene? If\nI was Elie Weizel and the only rental applicant was Tom\nMetzger, should I be forced to rent this distant unit to him?\n\n#> The companies on the Fortune 500, for example, are all privately owned. They\n#> can give you a list of all of their owners. They have no \"anonymous\",\n#> unknown to them, owners.\n\n\nYes, and the neat thing about this is that unlike the mom &\npop store, you and I can buy shares in IBM, and have influence\nover their decision making policies if we don't like them.\n\nAnyway, Paul, keep up the good work.", "*******\n******* This is somewhat long, but pleas read it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!\n*******\n\n\n\nBoy am i glad you decided to read this. I've got a problem that \nI need as many people's help from as possible.\n\nBefore I go in to the details of this, let me go ahead and tell\nyou that (though it may sound it) this is not one of those boy\nmeets girl problem...at least not totally like that to me....Anyway...\n\nOK, I am a 19 year old Sophmore at NCSU. About 10 years ago, my family\nand I were vacationing at the coast in a cottage we rented. Across the\nstreet, was ths girl who would whistle at me whenever she saw me...\nher name in Erin. Well, we became friends that week at the beach and have\nbeen writing each other for about 10 years....there was a period of about\n2 years we lost contact..but that was a while ago. \n\nBy the way...Erin lives in Kansas and me in NC.\n\nOK, last year in one of her letters, she says that she is coming\nback to NC to see some of her family who are gonna be there. So I\ndrove about 4 hours to see her. This is where it begins....I spent\nthe whole day with Erin....one of the best days of my life. Even though\nwe had been writing each other, we still had to get used to being\nin person....she has got to be the most incredible woman I ever met.\n(She's one year older than me BTW). I mean, no person in the world could\nask for a better person. Not only was she incredibly beautiful (not to \nmention WAY out of my league...although I'm not unattractive mind you), but\nshe had a great personality and a great sence of humor. Her family\nis one of those families who goes to church but that is about the\nextent of their Christianity...you know the kind of people. But she\nknows I am a Christian. \n\nWell, you get the idea of what I think of her. If there is ever such\na thing as love at first sight....I found it. That was last year...I kid\nyou not when I say that I have thought about her EVERY day since then.\n\nIn out letters, Erin and I always kid each other about not finding\ndates..(which is true for me, but I know it can't be for her).\nShe has had some problems at home, her folks split up and she ended\nup leaving school....Now we are at the present...\n\nLet me give you part of the letter I got from her last week....\n\n\n\"Okay, now I'm going to try to explain my life to you. I'm not\ngoing to KU anymore because something just isn't right. College\njust wasn't clicking with me here. Greek life is really big here and\nthat just isn't my way. I wasn't taking any classes that truly interested\nme & i really have no idea of what i want to do with my life. I was\ninterested in something medical (Physical Therpy) & I love working with \nkids, but 'it' just didn't work for me at this university. And my parents\ncould tell.\n\n\"So I'm working full time at the Bass Store [Bass shoes that is] and now\nI have a part-time job at a local daycare. I work in the infant room\nM-W-F. I've really enjoyed it so far. It spices up my week a little bit and \nit's great experience.\n\n\"As of now, I'm not planning on going back to school in the very\nnear future. The main reason being my indecision on what I want to\nstudy. But I definatley plan on going back within the next couple of\nyears. Where? I have no idea--except for one thing, it won't be\nto Kansas.\n\n\"Right noew I'm discussing a promotion with my boss and district \nmanager. It looks like I'll train at the store I work at now for\nabout 4-6 months as Assistant Manager and when that's done, I'll \nbasically be given a list of stores (newly or soon to be built) to \nchose where i would like to manage. I've pretty much decided on either\none of the Carolinas (hopeully close to the beach) Wouldn't it\nbe fun to actually see each other more than once every few years??\nWhat do you think abou that? I would like to know your opinion.\n\n\"This job would pretty much be temporary. But it is VERY GOOD pay\nand any thye of management experience would look good on an application\nor resume. The company is solid and treats it employees very well. Good\nbenefits, bonuses & medical plans. Plus- after 1 year of full-time\nservice, they will reimburse tuition. I do have school money waitng\nfor me, but this will help, especially since I will probably end up \npaying out of state tuition wherever I go.\n\n\"Chris, i really would like to know what you think of my decision. I \nrespect your opinion. I've been completely lost for what to do for \nsoooo long that when the opportunity came along it sounded really \ngood. I do like my job although I'm about 99.9% sure that i want\nto do more with my life than reatil management..but it IS something.\nI don't think earning about $20,000 a year for a 20 year old female\nis too bad. \n\n\"Anyway, onto your career decisions. I'll solve your problem right now,\nMARRY ME...\n\n\"You can do your pilot thing-- I like to be by myself sometimes! Seriously\n(or not as seriously)- do what will make you the happiest, worry about the\nhome life later.\"\n\n***********\n\nOK, well I'm sure you see what has got me so uptight. What do you\nthink she meant about the marraige thing?? \n\nI dream at night about marrying her, and then she mentions it in her\nletter!!! I don't know what to think??\n\nSince she wants to move to the Carolina's should i search out a \nBass store near here and aske her to come to Carolina???\n\nI always pick on those people who graduate from high school and\nget married....but what does she mean??? \n\nI've had a lot of stress lately with exams and also the fact that \nI don't date beacause 1) No time 2) Not that much $$ 3) that\nmost college women are wrapped up in the social scene with the\nGreeks whic as a Christian I can't support-----and here\nshe says she doesn't like the Greek thing either!!\n\nMaybe I'm so stunned because there is actually a girl that I am\nso attracted to paying some real attention to me.\n\nI mean, what if she did move to NC...what would I do??? I'm\nonly 19 and she 20....I'm only a Sophmore struggling through\nclasses..\n\nI have prayed about this over the past year from time to time..\nsaying, \"God if she is the right one, let the situation open up..\"\n\nCould this be my sign???\n\nI would do ANYTHING to get her to NC...here is some moree that makes \nit worse..\n\nShould I call her?? I'm terrible over the phone. I don't even like\nto talk to my friends here for longer than 3 minutes.\n\nI mean, what would a girl as perfect as her want with a very\naverage guy like me??\n\nI'm really confused....I would really appreciate any help i can get.\n\nThanx \n\nChris", "\nI was waiting for this. I think your question should be rephrased. The many\nverses of the Bible which condem homosexuality (by our beliefs) have been\nshoved down the throats of homosexuals for a long time by (well-meaning?)\nChristians. The question is how do they interpret these verses. Any discussion\nof any issue (this or any other issue) requires a proof of your case as well\nas a disproof of the opposing view. We are already familiar with those verses\nand many have proven to themselves that these condem homosexual behaviour. We\nmust now establish reasons for not believing this to be true based on the\ninterpretation of these scriptures given by someone who has come to grips with\nthem.", "\n\n\nThe magnet trick will work. Be careful when you apply the white tape to the\nrubber carriage roller, it tells the scanner where the edge is and it can come\noff.\n\nJim\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n A remark I heard the other day is beginning to take on increasingly\nfrightening significance. The comment was made that \"In other parts\nof the world the Democrats [note the big \"D\"] would be known as\nSocialists\" \n\n A [note the small \"d\"] democrat who wonders what Thomas Jefferson, on\nthis the 250th anniversary of his birth, would have thought of the state\nof affairs between the government and the governed.\n\n\n------- Any views expressed are those of myself and not my employer. --------\nSteven C. Johnson, WB3IRU / VK2GDS |\nTRW | johnson@trwacs.fp.trw.com\nFP1 / 3133 | [129.193.172.90]\n1 Federal Systems Park Drive | Phone: +1 (703) 968.1000\nFairfax, Virginia 22033-4412 U.S.A. | Fax: +1 (703) 803.5189", "S P H E R I C A L D E S I G N I N G", "\n Which Golden Dawn? How about the original from 100 years ago?\n\n\n No. No Rosicrucian would ever admit or deny being such.", "\nThat's closer, but I dislike \"apps\". \"software\" (vs. \"hardware\")\nwould be better. Would that engulf alt.graphics.pixutils? Or would\nthat be \"programmer\"?\n\nI don't know if traffic is really heavy enough to warrant a newsgroup\nsplit. Look how busy comp.graphics.research is (not).\n\nIt's true that a lot of the traffic here is rehashing FAQs and\ndiscussing things that would probably be better diverted to\nsystem-specific groups, but I don't know whether a split would help\nor hurt that cause.\n\nMaybe we need a comp.graphics.RTFB for all those people who can't be\nbothered to read the fine books out there. Right, Dr. Rogers? :-)", "\n\n\n\nWe have one here, at Berg's alma mater (class of 1923). It's kind of \na sour thing; she disapproved of the job that Sewell et al had done.\n", "\nThose are pretty typical, I believe.\n", "\nAtomic Energy Commision - Hmm, they would say this.\n\nThe Earth may spew alot of substances into the atmosphere, but the quality \nof your toxic output can easily make up for the lack of quantity. Furthermore, \nthe planet is a system of carbon, sulfur and other chemicals which have been\nacting for billions of years, we are but newcomers to the system - we must adapt\nand control in order to bring about stability. Also, two wrongs do not make a right, \nso continuing our practices despite overwhelming data is just ignorance in (non)action.\n\n\nEducated and open minded environmentalists do not.", "\nYou must be _incredibly_ bored. Have you considered reading the phone book?", "\nThe economic and political ignorance of most Americans can be truly scary.\nPrice controls and government intervention. The surest route to\ndisaster. It's amazing, people never seem to learn from history (or\ncommon sense). Price controls do not, and cannot work. I would have\nthought our last experiment in the 70's would have been enough to \ndampen the belief that price controls can actually work. As for\ngovernment intervention, people never seem to get the irony of what\nthe are saying. We are told that entitlements are the biggest portion\nof the budget and they must be 'controlled'. We are presented with\nhorror stories of waste and fraud in almost all government agencies.\nWe are shown stories about the miserable treatment our veterans get\nin our government run hospitals. We are just now seeing stories about\nhow Social Security isn't going to cut it in the future (as if that\nshould come as any surprise). And yet, people choose to ignore all\nof that and believe in the fairy tale of the government coming to\nthe rescue. Simply amazing.\n\n", "\n\tHe's 1/2 liar, 1/2 cheat and 1/2 demagogue.", "\nHow does that saying go: Those who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt\nthose who are doing it.\n\nJim", "Hello.\n\n\nI just read my first newspaper in a while and noticed an article on a\n'messianic cult' leader named 'David Koresh'.\n\nI'd like to know more about this and what is going on with them.\n\nPlease email me as I don't normally read this newsgroup. Thanks.\n", "\nYeah, really, no shit!\n\nLike that jerk Loch Faircloth that couldn't win an election\nas a democrat so he switches to republican the year before this\npast election and takes Terry Sanford out with his bitch\nand moan campaigning typical of NC senate/house/gubner races.\n\nI swear, I'd kick Jesse Helms in the head if I ever got the chance.\n\nMaybe then he'd get a fucking clue as to how the rest of\nthe world lives.\n", "\n\nUm, I sortof hesitate to bring this up, but owning even a single share\nentitles you to attend the annual shareholders meeting, and under most\ncorporate charters to introduce topics to be discussed. While I *don't*\nsuggest the tactic used by some in Japan (go to the shareholders meeting,\nand disrupt the bejeezus out of everything), what about a well-worded\nresolution complaining about \"advocacy journalism\"?\n\n", "\nThen we all live happily ever after. :-)\n\nSeriously, if we all agreed on the circumstances we're in, I suspect we'd all\nagree on the best course of action. Unfortunately, I have no confidence that\nsuch a situation will ever arise. \n\nSome of us think there's a big God in the sky, some don't. Some think\nthey've been chosen by God, others disagree. Some think they are infallible,\nothers think otherwise. Until those disagreements over circumstances can be\nironed out, there's little hope of everyone agreeing.\n\n\nYes. I think that, for example, only a vanishingly small number of people\nwould hold that there's a frame of reference in which gassing six million\nJews is good. So that's probably about as close to an objective moral value\nas I've encountered in my life so far.\n\n\nWell, I think your example's poor. If the bomb's in Iraq, for example, and\nwas dropped by an American plane, many people would hold that it was a moral\nact.\n\n\nHmm. So these moral values have a perceptible physical presence?\n\n\nRight, and the chain ends right there. The buck stops with me. It's not an\ninfinite regress.\n\n\nRight. The key point, however, is that there are vanishingly few of these\nmoral issues where we can get 99.9% of people to agree on the outcome for all\nframes of reference (and agree on the frames of reference...)\n\n\nI can't manage either. Killing Hitler using a car bomb would have been a\nterrorist act, but I have to admit that I couldn't exactly condemn it. \nAlthough there are tricky philosophical issues to do with hindsight...\n\n\nI think that circumstances have already arisen where terrorism would have\nbeen better than peace. Better in terms of numbers of innocent people\nkilled. Assuming it was successful terrorism, of course.\n", "\nIf you read the last couple of books in the series closely (well, #3 and #4\nat least), there are at least two points at which the real Question is\nimplied. Conversations proceed much like:\n\nZaphod: What *is* the ultimate Question, I wonder?\nArthur (not paying much attention to Zaphod, but needing a random seed for\n the Infinite Improbability Drive): Think of a number, any number.\n\nActually, it may be Marvin who uses this phrase a few times as well, and\neverytime it's arranged such that \"Think of a number, any number\" could be\nan answer to someone's question about the Question.\n\nI kind of like it. Very mystifying. It's not even \"pick a number\" or\n\"tell me a number\", just \"think of one\".\n\n", "Kent: With all due respect, how can I take you seriously, when you have\nthe NAMES wrong in the 1st place? E.g.:\n\n\n\tThere is no such thing. The correct name is Ancient & Mystical\nOrder Rosae Crucis, abbreviated AMORC.\n\n\n\tThere is no such thing either. It's the Rosicrucian Fellowship.\nAnd they clearly state that they DO NOT pretend to descend from the\nOrder of the Fama Fraternitatis.\n\n\nThe Lectorium? And who else?\n\n\nThese are NOT Rosicrucian \"orders\". They are Masonic study groups, none\nof which *claims* to be descendant of the original Order.\n\nWhat is ORC? If you mean AMORC, you didn't even learn the correct\nname?!", "\n\n\tI'm not sure that's true. Let me rephrase; \"You can file a complaint\n which will bring the person into court.\" As I understand it, a\n \"citizens arrest\" does not have to be the physical detention of\n the person.\n\n Better now?", "I've got two lines coming into my apartment. Two different telephone numbers.\nWhen I ordered the second line installed, instead of bringing out another 4\nwire bundle, the telco just connected up to my yellow and black wires. So I\nhave one line on red & green and the other on yellow & black.\n\nToday I was monitoring the voltage on both lines. I had a voltmeter across\nthe red and green and read back 52 volts. I then lifted up the receiver on my\nsecond line.(black & yellow wires) The voltage dropped to 31 volts on the first\nline. (red & green wires) I repeated this experiment with the second\nline(monitoring black & yellow and lifting the handset off the cradle on the\nred and green line.) It also dropped to 31 volts. \n\nWhy is this ? I thought these were separate lines.\n\nNext I went to the 66 block and disconnected the blue and white lines coming in\nfrom the telco cable. I then disconnected all the phones in my apartment and\nwent back to the 66 block and did some resistance measurements. Both lines read\nopen.\n\nI'll appreciate any help on this. Is this considered normal ?\n\nGuy Urbina", "I made a few phone calls today, and found that if you call the Bill Room at\nthe Sacramento State Capitol, you may order free of charge any bills that\nare currently being pushed. I was told that they will only fill an order of\nfive bills per phone call, but when I asked kindly and told the nice lady that\nit was very important, she filled my order for ten.\n\nCalifornia State Bill Room\n916-445-2323\n\nSubject: Re: Need Senate Bill numbers and House Resolution numbers\n \nSorry I forgot to include this in my previous letter but we also\nhave to worry about State bills. These are the ones that I am\ncurrently aware of:\n\nSB 292\nSB 247\nSB 67\nSB 89\nSB 180\n\nAB 117\nAB 155\nAB 166\nAB 482\nAB 501\n\nMy thanks to Bob Hale for providing the bill numbers!\n\n/------------------------------------------------------------------------\\\n\\------------------------------------------------------------------------/", "\n\tI wonder how hard it would be (i.e. what it would add to the cost)\nto design desktop machines with a power saver feature built in which would\nreduce power consumption automatically if the machine is idle for more than\nsome amount of time. This is pretty standard in portable machines, and the\nsame kinds of tricks could be played; spinning down disks, turning off\nscreens, reducing clock speed, etc. The advantage of this over just turning\nthe thing off would be 1) you don't have to remember to do anything and 2)\nthe machine is still available over the network.\n\n\tThe tricky part might be in defining what constitutes inactivity.\nCertainly, you don't want to wake up from sleep mode just because somebody\npinged you, but you do want to wake up (at least the CPU) if somebody\nlogs in via a telnet connection.\n\n\tI wouldn't worry too much about wasting electricity in the winter\nmonths; that energy is just getting turned into heat. It may not be as\nefficient a way to heat a building as the central heating plant, but it's\nnot too bad. In the summer though, it's a disaster. Not only are you\nwasting that power, but you're probably also running the air conditioning to\nget rid of the waste heat.", "\n\nI have discussed this with my girlfriend often. I consider myself married,\nthough legally I am not. Neither of us have been with other people sexually,\nalthough we have been with each other. We did not have sexual relations\nuntil we decided to marry eventually. For financial and distance reasons,\nwe will not be legally married for another year and a half. Until then,\nI consider myself married for life in God's eyes. I have faith that we\nhave a strong relationship, and have had for over 4 years, and will be\nfull of joy when we marry in a church. First, however, we must find a\nchurch( we will be living in a new area when we marry, and will need to\nfind a new church community).\n\nAnyway, I feel that if two people commit to marriage before God, they are\nmarried and are bound by that commitment.\n", "\n[FAQ and Darius' response deleted]\n\n\n\nI am myself an SDA and I am in total agreement with what Darius has to say. \nI also worship on Saturday to honor the Lord. Your mention of \"[esteeming] \nall days alike\" IMO has to do with the fast days observed by the Jews. But \nno matter how you interpret that passage, I do accept your worship on Sunday \nas being done in honor of the Lord, in contrast with what many of my fellow \nSDA believers may believe. To me, though, the bible overwhelmingly points \nto Saturday as the day to be kept in honor of creation and of God's \ndeliverance of the Israelites from Egyptian bondage. To those who would \nattempt to point out that my observance of Saturday is being legalistic, \nthis is simply not the case. Rather, keeping Saturday allows me a full day \nto rest and contemplate God's goodness and grace.\n\n\n\nThe idea was introduced to me once that the reason Paul wanted the \nCorinthians to lay aside money for the collection on the first day of the \nweek was because that was when they received their weekly wages. Paul \nwanted them to lay aside money for the collection as first priority, before \nspending their money on other things. I do not have any proof in front of \nme for this though, although it would explain why they would lay aside money \nin their homes instead of a meeting. \n\n\nIt would seem to me that you assume that the christians in the NT regularly \nworshipped on the first day. I assume that the christians in the NT \nregularly worshipped on the seventh day. But I agree with you that we only \nhave implications because the authors did assume the reader knew when worhip \nwas.", "\n\n\"Through a single data point, you can draw any line you want.\"\n-- Dr. S. Bart Childs, Professor, Texas A&M Dept. of Computer Science\n\n\nBoth my pastor's late model Corolla and my father's 1987 Stanza\nhave demonstrated the \"falling door seals\" problem.", "\n\nConvenient? It seems very appropriate that this is cross-posted to\nalt.conspiracy.\n\nAssuming the most favorable interpretation of your '1000 degree'\nmeasurement (that the temperature is in Centigrade, rather than the\nmore common -in the US- Fahrenheit), you are still laboring under at\nleast 2 misconceptions:\n\n1. You seem to believe that steel melts somewhere around 1000 C.\n Actually, the melting point of most iron alloys (and steels are\n iron alloys) is in the neighborhood of 1400 C. Even if the gun\n were found in area which achieved the 1000 C temperature, the steel\n parts of the gun would not be deformed, and it would still be\n trivial to identify the nature of the weapon.\n\n2. A fire is not an isothermal process. There are 'hot' spots and\n 'cold' spots, though 'cold' is purely a relative term. So the\n weapon was not necessarily situated in a hot spot, as you seem to\n imply. And, even if it was, so what? It would not have melted\n anyway.", "\n\n\tI'm not sure how far standardisation went, but on two of my bikes (the\nGS550B and, I think, the GT380M) I was able to pop a Cibie' insert directly\ninto the original housing (held in by those roughly W-shaped springs). The\ninserts used 55/60W halogen bulbs, and were great, although Mr Bill later\nindicates that this may be too much of a drain on your charging system.", "Archive-name: net-privacy/part1\nLast-modified: 1993/3/3\nVersion: 2.1\n\n\nIDENTITY, PRIVACY, and ANONYMITY on the INTERNET\n================================================\n\n(c) 1993 L. Detweiler. Not for commercial use except by permission\nfrom author, otherwise may be freely copied. Not to be altered. \nPlease credit if quoted.\n\nSUMMARY\n=======\n\nInformation on email and account privacy, anonymous mailing and \nposting, encryption, and other privacy and rights issues associated\nwith use of the Internet and global networks in general.\n\n(Search for <#.#> for exact section. Search for '_' (underline) for\nnext section.)\n\nPART 1\n====== (this file)\n\nIdentity\n--------\n<1.1> What is `identity' on the internet?\n<1.2> Why is identity (un)important on the internet?\n<1.3> How does my email address (not) identify me and my background?\n<1.4> How can I find out more about somebody from their email address?\n<1.5> Why is identification (un)stable on the internet? \n<1.6> What is the future of identification on the internet?\n\nPrivacy\n-------\n<2.1> What is `privacy' on the internet?\n<2.2> Why is privacy (un)important on the internet?\n<2.3> How (in)secure are internet networks?\n<2.4> How (in)secure is my account?\n<2.5> How (in)secure are my files and directories?\n<2.6> How (in)secure is X Windows?\n<2.7> How (in)secure is my email?\n<2.8> How am I (not) liable for my email and postings?\n<2.9> How do I provide more/less information to others on my identity?\n<2.10> Who is my sysadmin? What does s/he know about me?\n<2.11> Why is privacy (un)stable on the internet?\n<2.12> What is the future of privacy on the internet?\n\nAnonymity\n---------\n<3.1> What is `anonymity' on the internet?\n<3.2> Why is `anonymity' (un)important on the internet?\n<3.3> How can anonymity be protected on the internet?\n<3.4> What is `anonymous mail'?\n<3.5> What is `anonymous posting'?\n<3.6> Why is anonymity (un)stable on the internet?\n<3.7> What is the future of anonymity on the internet?\n\n\nPART 2\n====== (next file)\n\nResources\n---------\n\n<4.1> What UNIX programs are related to privacy?\n<4.2> How can I learn about or use cryptography?\n<4.3> What is the cypherpunks mailing list?\n<4.4> What are some privacy-related newsgroups? FAQs?\n<4.5> What is internet Privacy Enhanced Mail (PEM)?\n<4.6> What are other Request For Comments (RFCs) related to privacy?\n<4.7> How can I run an anonymous remailer?\n<4.8> What are references on privacy in email?\n<4.9> What are some email, Usenet, and internet use policies?\n<4.10> What is the MIT ``CROSSLINK'' anonymous message TV program?\n\nMiscellaneous\n-------------\n\n<5.1> What is ``digital cash''?\n<5.2> What is a ``hacker'' or ``cracker''?\n<5.3> What is a ``cypherpunk''?\n<5.4> What is `steganography' and anonymous pools?\n<5.5> What is `security through obscurity'?\n<5.6> What are `identity daemons'?\n<5.7> What standards are needed to guard electronic privacy?\n\nIssues\n------\n\n<6.1> What is the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF)?\n<6.2> Who are Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility (CPSR)?\n<6.3> What was `Operation Sun Devil' and the Steve Jackson Game case?\n<6.4> What is Integrated Services Digital Network (ISDN)?\n<6.5> What is the National Research and Education Network (NREN)?\n<6.6> What is the FBI's proposed Digital Telephony Act?\n<6.7> What other U.S. legislation is related to privacy on networks?\n<6.8> What are references on rights in cyberspace?\n<6.9> What is the Computers and Academic Freedom (CAF) archive?\n\nFootnotes\n---------\n\n<7.1> What is the background behind the Internet?\n<7.2> How is Internet `anarchy' like the English language?\n<7.3> Most Wanted list\n<7.4> Change history\n\n\nPART 3\n====== (last file)\n\nAnonymizing\n-----------\n\n<8.1> What are some known anonymous remailing and posting sites?\n<8.2> What are the responsibilities associated with anonymity?\n<8.3> How do I `kill' anonymous postings?\n<8.4> What is the history behind anonymous posting servers?\n<8.5> What is the value of anonymity?\n<8.6> Should anonymous posting to all groups be allowed?\n<8.7> What should system operators do with anonymous postings?\n<8.8> What is going on with anon.penet.fi maintained by J. Helsingius?\n\n\n* * *\n\n\nIDENTITY\n========\n\n_____\n<1.1> What is `identity' on the internet?\n\n Generally, today people's `identity' on the internet is primarily\n determined by their email address in the sense that this is their\n most unchanging 'face' in the electronic realm. This is your\n login name qualified by the complete address domain information,\n for example ``ld231782@longs.lance.colostate.edu''. People see\n this address when receiving mail or reading USENET posts from you\n and in other situations where programs record usage. Some obsolete\n forms of addresses (such as BITNET) still persist.\n\n In email messages, additional information on the path that a message\n takes is prepended to the message received by the recipient. This\n information identifies the chain of hosts involved in the\n transmission and is a very accurate trace of its origination. This\n type of identify-and-forward protocol is also used in the USENET\n protocol to a lesser extent. Forging these fields requires\n corrupted mailing software at sites involved in the forwarding and\n is very uncommon. Not so uncommon is forging the chain at the\n origination point, so that all initial sites in the list are faked\n at the time the message is created. Tracing these messages can be\n difficult or impossible when the initial faked fields are names of\n real machines and represent real transfer routes.\n\n_____\n<1.2> Why is identity (un)important on the internet?\n\n The concept of identity is closely intertwined with communication,\n privacy, and security, which in turn are all critical aspects of\n computer networks. For example, the convenience of communication\n afforded by email would be impossible without conventions for\n identification. But there are many potential abuses of identity\n possible that can have very severe consequences, with massive\n computer networks at the forefront of the issue, which can\n potentially either exacerbate or solve these problems.\n\n Verifying that an identity is correct is called `authentication',\n and one classic example of the problems associated with it is\n H.G.Well's ``War of the Worlds'' radio broadcast that fooled\n segments of the population into thinking that an alien invasion was\n in progress. Hoaxes of this order are not uncommon on Usenet and\n forged identities makes them more insidious. People and their\n reputations can be assaulted by forgery.\n\n However, the fluidity of identity on the internet is for some one of\n its most attractive features. Identity is just as useful as it is\n harmful. A professor might carefully explain a topic until he\n finds he is talking to an undergraduate. A person of a particular\n occupation may be able to converse with others who might normally\n shun him. Some prejudices are erased, but, on the other hand, many\n prejudices are useful! A scientist might argue he can better\n evaluate the findings of a paper as a reviewer if he knows more\n about the authors. Likewise, he may be more likely to reject it\n based on unfair or irrelevant criteria. On the other side of the\n connection, the author may find identities of reviewers useful in\n exerting pressure for acceptance.\n\n Identity is especially crucial in establishing and regulating\n `credit' (not necessarily financial) and `ownership' and `usage'. \n Many functions in society demand reliable and accurate techniques\n for identification. Heavy reliance will be placed on digital\n authentication as global economies become increasingly electronic. \n Many government functions and services are based on identification,\n and law enforcement frequently hinges on it. Hence, employees of\n many government organizations push toward stronger identification\n structures. But when does identification invade privacy?\n\n The growth of the internet is provoking social forces of massive\n proportions. Decisions made now on issues of identity will affect\n many future users, especially as the network becomes increasingly\n global, universal, widespread, and entrenched; and the positive or\n adverse affects of these actions, intended and inadvertent, will\n literally be magnified exponentially.\n\n_____\n<1.3> How does my email address (not) identify me and my background?\n\n Your email address may contain information that influences people's\n perceptions of your background. The address may `identify' you as\n from a department at a particular university, an employee at a\n company, or a government worker. It may contain your last name,\n initials, or cryptic identification codes independent of both. In\n the US some are based on parts of social security numbers. Others\n are in the form 'u2338' where the number is incremented in the\n order that new users are added to the system.\n\n Standard internet addresses also can contain information on your\n broad geographical location or nationhood. However, none of this\n information is guaranteed to be correct or be there at all. The\n fields in the domain qualification of the username are based on\n rather arbitrary organization, such as (mostly invisible) network\n cabling distributions. The only point to make is that early fields\n in the address are more specific (such as specific computer names\n or local networks) and the later ones the most general (such as\n continental domains). Typically the first field is the name of the\n computer receiving mail.\n\n Gleaning information from the email address alone is sometimes an\n inspired art or an inconsistent and futile exercise. (For more\n information, see the FAQs on email addresses and known\n geographical distributions below.) However, UNIX utilities exist\n to aid in the quest (see the question on this).\n\n Common Suffixes\n ---------------\n\n .us United States\n .uk United Kingdom\n .ca Canada\n .fi Finland\n .au Australia\n\n .edu university or college\n .com commercial organization\n .org 'other' (e.g. nonprofit organization)\n .gov government\n .mil military site\n \n_____\n<1.4> How can I find out more about somebody with a given email address?\n\n One simple way is to send email to that address, asking. Another\n way is to send mail to the postmaster at that address (i.e.\n postmaster@address), although the postmaster's job is more to help\n find user ID's of particular people given their real name and solve\n mail routing problems. The sysadmin (i.e. `root@address') may also\n be able to supply information. Users with related email address\n may have information. However, all of these methods rely on the\n time and patience of others so use them minimally.\n\n One of the most basic tools for determining identity over the\n internet is the UNIX utility 'finger'. The basic syntax is:\n\n finger user@here.there.everywhere\n\n This utility uses communication protocols to query the computer\n named in the address for information on the user named. The\n response is generated completely by the receiving computer and may\n be in any format. Possible responses are as follows:\n\n - A message `unknown host' meaning some aspect of the address is\n incorrect, two lines with no information and '???'.\n \n - A message 'In real life: ???' in which case the receiving computer\n could not find any kind of a match on the username. The finger\n utility may return this response in other situations.\n \n - A listing of information associated with multiple users. Some\n computers will search only for matching user IDs, others will\n attempt to find the username you specified as a substring of all\n actual full names of users kept in a local database.\n \n At some sites 'finger' can be used to get a list of all users on the\n system with a `finger @address'. In general this is often\n considered weak security, however, because `attackers' know valid\n user ID's to `crack' passwords.\n\n More information on the fields returned by `finger' is given below. \n More information on `finger' and locating people's email addresses\n is given in the email FAQ (such as the WHOIS lookup utility). Just\n as you can use these means to find out about others, they can use\n them to find out about you. You can `finger' yourself to find out\n what is publicly reported by your UNIX system about you. Be\n careful when modifying `finger' data; virtually anyone with\n internet access worldwide can query this information. In one\n amazing case, the New York Times writer J. Markoff uncovered the\n identity of R. Morris, author of the Internet Worm, through\n the use of an anonymous tip and 'finger'. See the book Cyberspace\n by K. Hafner and J. Markoff.\n\n_____\n<1.5> Why is identification (un)stable on the internet?\n\n Generally, identity is an amorphous and almost nonexistent concept\n on the Internet for a variety of reasons. One is the inherent\n fluidity of `cyberspace' where people emerge and submerge\n frequently, and absences are not readily noted in the `community'. \n Most people remember faces and voices, the primary means of casual\n identification in the 'real world'. The arbitary and cryptic \n sequences of letters and digits comprising most email addresses are\n not particularly noticeable or memorable and far from a unique\n identification of an individual, who may use multiple accounts on\n multiple machines anywhere in the world.\n\n Currently internet users do not really have any great assurances\n that the messages in email and USENET are from who they appear to\n be. A person's mailing address is far from an identification of an\n individual. \n \n - Anyone with access to the account, e.g. they know the password,\n either legitimately or otherwise, can send mail with that address\n in the From: line.\n \n - Email addresses for an individual tend to change frequently as\n they switch jobs or make moves inside their organizations. \n\n - As part of current mailing protocol standards, forging the From:\n line in mail messages is a fairly trivial operation for many\n hackers.\n \n The status and path information prepended to messages by\n intermediate hosts is generally unforgeable. In general, while\n possible, forgeries are fairly rare on most newsgroups and in\n email. Besides these pathological cases abve there are many basic\n problems with today's internet protocols affecting identification\n on the internet:\n\n - Internet mail standards, described in RFC-822, are still evolving\n rapidly and not entirely orderly. For example, standards for\n mail address `munging' or `parsing' tend to vary slightly between\n sites and frequently mean the difference between finding\n addresses and bouncing mail.\n \n - Domain names and computer names are frequently changed at sites,\n and there are delays in the propagation of this data.\n \n - Addresses cannot be resolved when certain critical computers\n crash, such as the receiving computer or other computers involved\n in resolving names into addresses called `nameservers'. \n \n - A whole slew of problems is associated with `nameservers'; if\n they are not updated they will not find name addresses, and even\n the operation of what constitutes `updating' has different\n interpretations at different sites.\n \n The current internet mailing and addressing protocols are slightly\n anachronistic in that they were created when the network was\n somewhat obscure and not widespread, with only a fraction of the\n traffic it now sees. Today a large proportion of internet traffic\n is email, comprising millions of messages.\n\n_____\n<1.6> What is the future of identification on the internet?\n\n Some new technologies and standards are introducing facial images\n and voice messages into mail and these will improve the sense of\n community that comes from the familiarity of identification.\n However, they are not currently widespread, require large amounts\n of data transfer, standardized software, and make some compromises\n in privacy.\n\n Promising new cryptographic techniques may make 'digital signatures'\n and 'digital authentication' common (see below). Also, the trend\n in USENET standards is toward greater authentication of posted\n information. On the other hand, advances in ensuring anonymity\n (such as remailers) are forthcoming. See below.\n\n\nPRIVACY\n=======\n\n_____\n<2.1> What is `privacy' on the internet?\n\n Generally, while `privacy' has multiple connotations in society and\n perhaps even more on the internet, in cyberspace most take it to\n mean that you have exclusive use and access to your account and the\n data stored on and and directed to it (such as email), and you do\n not encounter arbitrary restrictions or searches. In other words, \n others may obtain data associated with your account, but not\n without your permission. These ideas are probably both fairly\n limiting and liberal in their scope in what most internet users\n consider their private domains. Some users don't expect or want\n any privacy, some expect and demand it.\n\n_____\n<2.2> Why is privacy (un)important on the internet?\n\n This is a somewhat debatable and inflammatory topic, arousing\n passionate opinions. On the internet, some take privacy for\n granted and are rudely surprised to find it tenuous or nonexistent.\n Most governments have rules that protect privacy (such as the\n illegal search and seizure clause of the U.S. constitution, adopted\n by others) but have many that are antithetical to it (such as laws\n prohibiting secret communications or allowing wiretapping). These\n rules generally carry over to the internet with few specific rules\n governing it. However, the legal repercussions of the global\n internet are still largely unknown and untested (i.e. no strong\n legal precedents and court cases). The fact that internet traffic\n frequently passes past international boundaries, and is not\n centrally managed, significantly complicates and strongly\n discourages its regulation.\n\n_____\n<2.3> How (in)secure are internet networks?\n\n - `Theoretically' people at any site in the chain of sites with\n access to hardware and network media that transmits data over the\n Internet could potentially monitor or archive it. However, the\n sheer volume and general 'noise' inherent to this data makes\n these scenarios highly improbable, even by government agencies\n with supposedly vast funding and resources.\n \n - Technologies exist to `tap' magnetic fields given off by\n electrical wires without detection. Less obscurely, any machine\n with a network connection is a potential station for traffic\n detection, but this scenario requires knowledge and access to\n very low-level hardware (the network card) to pursue, if even\n possible.\n \n - A company Network General Inc. is one of many that manufactures\n and markets sophisticated network monitoring tools that can\n 'filter' and read packets by arbitrary criteria for\n troubleshooting purposes, but the cost of this type of device is\n prohibitive for casual use.\n\n Known instances of the above types of security breaches at a major\n scale (such as at network hubs) are very rare. The greatest risks\n tend to emerge locally. Note that all these approaches are almost\n completely defused with the use of cryptography.\n \n_____\n<2.4> How (in)secure is my account?\n\n By default, not very. There are a multitude of factors that may\n reinforce or compromise aspects of your privacy on the internet. \n First, your account must be secure from other users. The universal\n system is to use a password, but if it is `weak' (i.e. easy to\n guess) this security is significantly diminished. Somewhat\n surprisingly and frighteningly to some, certain users of the\n system, particularly the administrator, generally have unlimited\n access regardless of passwords, and may grant that access to\n others. This means that they may read any file in your account\n without detection.\n\n Furthermore, not universally known, most UNIX systems keep fairly\n extensive accounting records of when and where you logged in, what\n commands you execute, and when they are executed (in fact, login\n information is usually public). Most features of this `auditing' or\n `process accounting' information are enabled by default after the\n initial installation and the system administrator may customize it\n to strengthen or weaken it to satisfy performance or privacy aims. \n This information is frequently consulted for troubleshooting\n purposes and may otherwise be ignored. This data tracks\n unsuccessful login attempts and other 'suspicious' activities on\n the system. A traditional part of the UNIX system that tracks user\n commands is easily circumvented by the user with the use of\n symbolic links (described in 'man ln').\n \n UNIX implementations vary widely particularly in tracking features\n and new sophisticated mechanisms are introduced by companies\n regularly. Typically system adminstrators augment the basic UNIX\n functionality with public-domain programs and locally-developed\n tools for monitoring, and use them only to isolate `suspicious'\n activity as it arises (e.g. remote accesses to the 'passwd' file, incorrect\n login attempts, remote connection attempts, etc.).\n \n Generally, you should expect little privacy on your account for\n various reasons:\n \n - Potentially, every keystroke you type could be intercepted by\n someone else. \n\n - System administrators make extensive backups that are completely\n invisible to users which may record the states of an account over\n many weeks. \n\n - Erased files can, under many operating systems, be undeleted. \n\n - Most automated services keep logs of use for troubleshooting or\n otherwise; for example FTP sites usually log the commands and\n record the domain originations of users, including anonymous\n ones.\n\n - Some software exacerbates these problems. See the section on\n ``X Windows (in)security''.\n\n Indepedent of malevolent administrators are fellow users, a much\n more commonly harmful threat. There are multiple ways to help\n ensure that your account will not be accessed by others, and\n compromises can often be traced to failures in these guidelines:\n\n - Choose a secure password. Change it periodically.\n - Make sure to logout always.\n - Do not leave a machine unattended for long.\n - Make sure no one watches you when you type your password.\n - Avoid password references in email.\n - Be conservative in the use of the .rhost file.\n - Use utilities like `xlock' to protect a station, but be\n considerate.\n\n Be wary of situations where you think you should supply your\n password. There are only several basic situations where UNIX\n prompts you for a password: when you are logging in to a system or\n changing your password. Situations can arise in which prompts for\n passwords are forged by other users, especially in cases where you\n are talking to them (such as Internet Relay Chat). Also, be aware\n that forged login screens are one method to illegitimately obtain \n passwords.\n\n\n (Thanks to Jim Mattson for contributions\n here.)\n\n_____\n<2.5> How (in)secure are my files and directories?\n\n The most important privacy considerations are related to file\n rights, and many lapses can be traced to their misunderstood nature\n or haphazard maintenance. Be aware of the rights associated with\n your files and directories in UNIX. If the `x' (`execute') right on\n your parent directory is off for users, groups, and other, these\n users cannot gain information on anything in your directories. \n Anything less may allow others to read, change, or even delete\n files in your home directory. The rights on a directory supersede\n the rights associated with files in that directory. For a\n directory, 'x' means that access to the files (or subdirectories)\n in the directory is possible -- if you know their names. To list\n the contents of the directory, however, requires the 'r' right.\n \n By default most accounts are accessable only to the owner, but the\n initial configuration varies between sites based on administrator\n preference. The default file mode specifies the initial rights\n associated with newly created files, and can be set in the shell\n with `umask'. The details of rights implementations tend to vary\n between versions of UNIX. Consult man pages on `chmod' and `ls'.\n\n Examples\n --------\n\n traver.lance % ls -ld ~\n drwx------ 15 ld231782 1536 Jan 31 21:22 /users/ld231782/\n\n Here is a listing of the rights associated with a user's home\n directory, denoted by `~'. The columns at the left identify what\n rights are available. The first column identifies the entry as a\n directory, and the next three columns mean that read, write, and\n execute rights, respectively, are permitted for that user. For\n directories, the `x' right means that contents (file and\n subdirectory names) within that directory can be listed. The\n subsequent columns indicate that no other users have any rights to\n anything in the directory tree originating at that point. They\n can't even `see' any lower files or subdirectories; the hierarchy\n is completely invisible to them.\n\n traver.lance % ls -l msg\n -rw-r--r-- 1 ld231782 35661 Jan 29 23:13 msg\n traver.lance % chmod u=rw,g=,o= msg\n traver.lance % ls -l msg\n -rw------- 1 ld231782 35661 Jan 29 23:13 msg\n\n Here the modes on the file `msg' were changed to take away rights\n from `group' and `other'. \n \n Note that `ls -l ' requires both the 'r' right to get the list\n of files and subdirectories, and the 'x' right to access the files\n and subdirectories in order to get their size, etc. For example,\n suppose the directory `foo' has rights dr--r--r--, the following\n is possible:\n\n ls foo\n\n These commands would fail independent of file rights:\n \n ls -l foo\n ls -l foo/file\n cat foo/file\n cd foo\n\n If the directory `foo' has rights d--x--x--x, the following are\n possible if it is known beforehand that `foo' contains an 'r'\n readable file named `file':\n \n ls -l foo/file\n cat foo/file\n cd foo\n \n The following commands fail:\n \n ls foo\n ls -l foo\n \n\n (Thanks to Uwe Waldmann for contributions here.)\n\n_____\n<2.6> How (in)secure is X Windows?\n\n X Windows is the primary software developed by the MIT Athena\n project which is funded by U.S. government grants to develop\n applications to harness the power of networks in enhancing\n computational tasks, particularly the human-computer interface. \n The software implements a client-server interface to a computer via\n graphical windows. In this case the `client' is the application\n requesting or utilizing graphical resources (such as windows or a\n mouse) and the `server' is the machine that provides them. In many\n situations the client is an application program running on the same\n machine as the server.\n\n The great utility of X Windows comes from its complete dissociation\n of the client and server so that windows may be `broadcast' to a\n server at a remote location from the client. Unfortunately this\n dynamic power also introduces many deep, intricate, and complicated\n security considerations. The primary security and privacy issue\n associated with X Windows is that much more sensitive data may be\n sent over a network, and over wider regions, than in the case where\n the human is situated near the host computer. Currently there is\n no encryption of data such as screen updates and keystrokes in X\n Windows.\n\n Due to either intentional design decisions or unintentional design\n flaws, early versions of the X Window system are extremely\n insecure. Anyone with an account on the server machine can disrupt\n that display or read it electronically based on access to the\n device unix:0.0 by any regular user. There are no protections\n from this type of access in these versions. The problem arises\n because the security is completely based on machine addresses\n rather than users, such that any user at a `trusted' machine is\n himself trusted. Quoting from X documentation (man Xsecurity):\n \n > Any client on a host in the host access control list is allowed\n > access to the X server. This system can work reasonably well in\n > an environment where everyone trusts everyone, or when only a\n > single person can log into a given machine...This system does not\n > work well when multiple people can log in to a single machine and\n > mutual trust does not exist. \n \n With the access control list, the `xhost' command may prevent some\n naive attempts (i.e. those other than the direct-access unix:0.0\n evasion); the syntax as typed on the host machine is ``xhost\n +[name]'' where [name] is the domain name or internet address of an\n authorized client machine. By default clients running nonlocal to\n the host are disabled. Public domain programs to disrupt a display\n momentarily (such as 'flip' or slowly mirror the screen image, or\n cause pixels to 'melt' down to the bottom) have been circulating on\n the internet among hackers for several years and played as pranks\n on unsuspecting or inexperienced users. Much more serious security\n breaches are conceivable from similar mechanisms exploiting this\n inherent weaknesses. (The minimal, easily-bypassed `trusted'\n security mode of `xhost' has been jokingly referred to as ``X\n Hanging Open, Security Terrible.''). \n\n New versions of the X Window system (X11R5 and higher) by default \n make server access as secure as the file system using a .Xauthority\n file and 'magic cookies'. Remote machines must have a code in the\n .Xauthority file in the home directory that matches the code\n allowed by the server. Many older programs and even new\n vendor-supplied code does not support or is incompatible with\n `magic cookies'. The basic magic cookie mechanism is vulnerable to\n monitoring techniques described earlier because no encryption of\n keys occurs in transmission. X11R5 also includes other\n sophisticated encryption mechanisms. Try `man Xsecurity' to find\n out what is supported at your site. Even though improved security \n mechanisms have been available in X Windows since ~1990, local\n sites often update this software infrequently because installation\n is extremely complex.\n\n\n (Thanks to Marc Vanheyningen , \n Jim Mattson , and Bill Marshall\n for contributions here.)\n\n_____\n<2.7> How (in)secure is my email?\n\n By default, not very. The characters that you are reading are\n almost certainly encoded in ASCII, the American Standard Code for\n Information Interchange that maps alphabetic and symbolic\n characters onto numeric codes and vice versa. Virtually every\n computer system uses this code, and if not, has ways of converting\n to and from it. When you write a mail message, by default it is\n being sent in ASCII, and since the standard is virtually\n universal, there is no intrinsic privacy. Despite milleniums worth\n of accumulated cryptographic knowledge, cryptographic technologies\n are only recently being established that afford high priority to\n privacy as a primary criteria in computer and network design. Some\n potential pitfalls in privacy are as follows:\n\n - The most serious threats are instances of immature or unscrupulous\n system operators reading private mail in the `spool files' at a\n local site (i.e. at the source or destination of the message),\n such as a university. \n \n - System administrators may also release files to law enforcement\n agencies, but conventions and protocols for warrants involving\n computer searches have still not been strongly established and\n tested legally.\n\n - Note that bounced messages go to postmasters at a given site in\n their entirety. This means that if you address mail with an\n incorrect address it has a good chance of being seen by a human\n other than the recipient.\n\n - Typically new user accounts are always set up such that the local\n mail directory is private, but this is not guaranteed and can be\n overridden.\n\n - Finally, be aware that some mailing lists (email addresses of \n everyone on a list) are actually publicly accessable via mail \n routing software mechanisms. This `feature' can be disabled.\n\n Most potential compromises in email privacy can be thoroughly\n avoided with the use of strong end-to-end cryptography, which has\n its own set of caveats (for example, unscrupulous administrators\n may still be a threat if the encryption site is shared or\n nonlocal). See the sections on ``email privacy'' and ``email\n policies.''\n\n_____\n<2.8> How am I (not) liable for my email and postings?\n\n As punishment or whatever, your system administrator can revoke\n certain `privileges' such as emailing, USENET posting or reading\n certain groups, file transferring, remote communications, or\n generally any subset of capabilities available from your account. \n This all is completely at the discretion of the local administrator\n and under the procedures followed at a particular site, which in\n many cases are haphazard and crisis-oriented. Currently there are\n virtually no widespread, uniform guidelines or procedures for\n restricting use to any internet services, and local administrators\n are free to make arbitrary decisions on access.\n\n Today punitive measures are regularly applied in various situations.\n In the typical scenario complaint(s) reach a system adminstrator\n regarding abuses by a user, usually but not necessarily preceded by\n complaints to the user in email, regarding that person's\n objectionable email or postings. `abusive' posters to USENET are\n usually first given admonitions from their system administrators as\n urged by others on the `net'. (The debate persists endlessly on\n many newsgroups whether this is also used as a questionable means\n of attacking or silencing `harmless crackpots' or censoring\n unpopular opinions.)\n \n System administrators at remote sites regularly cooperate to\n 'squelch' severe cases of abuse. In general, however, by tradition\n Usenet readers are remarkably tolerant of diverse views and uses of\n the system, but a colorful vocabularly of slang helps describe\n their alternatives when this patience is sapped: the options\n wielded by the individual user are to simply advance to the next\n message (referred to as ``hitting the `n' key''), or to `plonk'\n annoying posters (according to the Hacker's Dictionary, the sound a\n jerk makes at the end of a fall to the bottom of a kill file).\n\n In cases where punitive actions are applied, generally system\n administrators are least likely to restrict email. USENET postings\n are much more commonly restricted, either to individual users or \n entire groups (such as a university campus). Restrictions are most\n commonly associated with the following `abuses':\n\n - harassing or threatening notes, `email terrorism'\n - illegal uses, e.g. piracy or propagation of copyrighted material\n - `ad hominem' attacks, i.e. insulting the reputation of the\n poster instead of citing the content of the message\n - intentional or extreme vulgarity and offensiveness\n - inappropriate postings, esp. binary files in regular groups\n `mail-bombing': inundating mail boxes with numerous or massive\n files\n\n Major problems originate from lack of distinctions in private and\n official email or postings. Most users have internet access via\n accounts at businesses or universities and their activities on the\n internet can be construed as representative of their parent\n organizations. Many people put disclaimers in their `signatures' in\n an attempt dissociate their identity and activities from parent\n organizations as a precaution. A recent visible political case\n involves the privacy of electronic mail written by White House\n staff members of the Bush administration. Following are some\n guidelines:\n\n - Acquaint yourself with your company or university policy.\n - If possible, avoid use of your company email address for private\n communication.\n - Use a disclaimer.\n - Keep a low profile (avoid `flamewars' or simply don't post).\n - Avoid posting information that could be construed to be\n proprietary or `internal'.\n\n The following references are available from ftp.eff.com\n (see also the section on ``internet use policies''):\n\n /pub/academic/banned.1991\n /pub/academic/banned.1992\n ---\n Computer material that was banned/challenged in academia in 1991\n and 1992 including USENET hierarchies.\n\n /pub/academic/cases\n ---\n This is an on-line collection of information about specific\n computers and academic freedom cases. File README is a detailed\n description of the items in the directory.\n\n /pub/academic/faq/netnews.liability\n ---\n Notes on university liability for Usenet.\n\n_____\n<2.9> How do I provide more/less information to others on my identity?\n\n The public information of your identity and account is mostly\n available though the UNIX utility `finger' described above. \n \n - You have control over most of this information with the utility\n `chfn', the specifics vary between sites (on some systems use\n `passwd -f').\n \n - You can provide unlimited information in the .plan file which is\n copied directly to the destination during the fingering. \n \n - A technique that works at some sites allows you to find out who is\n 'finger'ing you and even to vary the .plan file sent to them.\n \n - Your signature is determined by the environment variable SIGNATURE\n \n - USENET signatures are conventionally stored in the .signature file\n in your home directory.\n \n Providing less information on your online identity is more difficult\n and involved. One approach is to ask your system adminstrator to\n change or delete information about you (such as your full name). \n You may be able to obtain access on a public account or one from\n someone unrelated to you personally. You may be able to remotely\n login (via modem or otherwise) to computers that you are not\n physically near. These are tactics for hiding or masking your\n online activities but nothing is foolproof. Consult man pages on\n the 'chmod' command and the default file mode. Generally, files on\n a shared system have good safeguards within the user pool but very\n little protection is possible from corrupt system administrators.\n\n To mask your identity in email or on USENET you can use different\n accounts. More untraceable are new `anonymous posting' and\n remailing services that are very recently being established. See\n below.\n\n______\n<2.10> Who is my sysadmin? What does s/he know about me?\n\n The requirements and screening for getting a system administration\n job (and thereby access to all information on a system) vary widely\n between sites and are sometimes frighteningly lax, especially at\n universities. Many UNIX systems at universities are largely\n managed by undergraduates with a background in computing and often\n `hacking'. In general, commercial and industrial sites are more\n strict on qualifications and background, and government sites are\n extremely strict.\n\n The system adminstrator (root user) can monitor what commands you\n used and at what times. S/he may have a record (backups) of files\n on your account over a few weeks. S/he can monitor when you send\n email or post USENET messages, and potentially read either. S/he\n may have access to records indicating what hosts you are using,\n both locally and elsewhere. Administrators sometimes employ\n specialized programs to track `strange' or `unusual' activity,\n which can potentially be misused.\n\n______\n<2.11> Why is privacy (un)stable on the internet?\n\n For the numerous reasons listed above, privacy should not be an\n expectation with current use of the internet. Furthermore, large\n parts of the internet are funded by the U.S. NSF (National Science\n Foundation) which places certain restrictions on its use (such as\n prohibiting commercial use). Some high-level officials in this and\n other government agencies may be opposed to emerging techniques to\n guarantee privacy (such as encryption and anonymous services).\n\n Historically the major threats to privacy on the internet have been\n local. Perhaps the most common example of this are the widespread\n occurrences of university administrators refusing to carry some\n portion of USENET newsgroups labelled as `pornographic'. The\n `alternative' hierarchy in the USENET system, which has virtually\n no restrictions on propagation and new group creation, is\n frequently targeted (although this material may appear anywhere).\n\n From the global point of view traffic is generally completely\n unimpeded on the internet and only the most egregious offenders\n are pursued. For example, verbatim transcriptions of copyrighted\n material (such as newspaper or magazine articles) are posted to\n USENET with regularity without major consequences (some email\n complaints may ensue). More astonishing to some is that currently\n significant portions of USENET traffic, and less so internet\n traffic, is comprised of sexually-explicit digitized images almost\n entirely originating from copyrighted material (newsgroups such as\n `alt.sex' regularly have the highest traffic).\n \n______\n<2.12> What is the future of privacy on the internet?\n\n Some argue that the internet currently has an adequate or\n appropriate level of privacy. Others will argue that as a\n prototype for future global networks it has woefully inadequate\n safeguards. The internet is growing to become a completely global,\n international superhighway for data, and this traffic will\n inevitably entail data such as voice messages, postal mail, and\n many other items of extremely personal nature. Computer items that\n many people consider completely private (such as their local hard\n drives) will literally be inches from global network connections.\n Also, sensitive industrial and business information is exchanged\n over networks currently and this volume may conceivably merge with\n the internet.\n \n Most would agree that, for these basic but sensitive uses of the\n internet, no significant mechanisms are currently in place to\n ensure much privacy. New standards are calling for uniform\n introduction of `privacy enhanced mail' (PEM) which uses encryption\n technologies to ensure privacy, so that privacy protection is\n automatic, and may significantly improve safeguards.\n\n The same technology that can be extremely destructive to privacy\n (such as with surreptitious surveilance) can be overwhelmingly\n effective in protecting it (e.g. with encryption). Some government\n agencies are opposed to unlimited privacy in general, and believe\n that it should lawfully be forfeited in cases of criminal conduct\n (e.g. court-authorized wiretapping). However, powerful new\n technologies to protect privacy on computers are becoming\n increasingly popular, provoking some to say that ``the cat is out\n of the bag'' and the ``genie can't be put back in the bottle''. In\n less idiomatic terms, they believe that the spread of strong\n cryptography is already underway will be socially and technically\n unstoppable.\n \n To date, no feasible system that guarantees both secure\n communication and government oversight has been proposed (the two\n goals are largely incompatible). Proposals for ``registration'' of\n secret keys (by D. Denning on sci.crypt, for example) have been met\n with hot controversy at best and ridicule and derision at worst,\n mainly because of concerns for the right to privacy and objections\n of inherent feasibility. Electronic privacy issues, and\n particularly the proper roles of networks and the internet, will\n foreseeably become highly visible and explosive over the next few\n years.\n\n\nANONYMITY\n=========\n\n_____\n<3.1> What is `anonymity' on the internet?\n\n Simply stated, anonymity is the absence of identity, the\n ultimate in privacy. However, there are several variations on\n this simple theme. A person may wish to be consistently\n identified by a certain pseudonym or `handle' and establish a\n reputation under it in some area, providing pseudo-anonymity.\n A person may wish to be completely untraceable for a single\n one-way message (a sort of `hit-and-run'). Or, a person may\n wish to be openly anonymous but carry on a conversation with\n others (with either known or anonymous identities) via an\n `anonymous return address'. A user may wish to appear as a\n `regular user' but actually be untraceable. Sometimes a user\n wishes to hide who he is sending mail to (in addition to the\n message itself). The anonymous item itself may be directed at\n individuals or groups. A user may wish to access some\n service and hide all signs of the association. \n \n All of these uses are feasible on the internet but are currently\n tricky to carry out in practice, because of all the tracking\n mechanisms inherent to operating systems and network protocols. \n Officials of the NSF and other government agencies may be opposed\n to any of these uses because of the potential for abuse. \n Nevertheless, the inherent facelessness of large networks will\n always guarantee a certain element of anonymity.\n\n_____\n<3.2> Why is `anonymity' (un)important on the internet?\n\n Anonymity is another powerful tool that can be beneficial or\n problematic depending on its use. Arguably absence of\n identification is important as the presence of it. It may be the\n case that many strong benefits from electronic anonymity will be\n discovered that were unforeseen and unpredicted, because true\n anonymity has been historically very difficult to establish.\n\n One can use anonymity to make personal statements to a colleague\n that would sabotage a relationship if stated openly (such as\n employer/employee scenarios). One can use it to pass information\n and evade any threat of direct retribution. For example,\n `whistleblowers' reporting on government abuses (economic, social,\n or political) can bring issues to light without fear of stigma or\n retaliation. Sensitive, personal, potentially damaging information\n is often posted to some USENET groups, a risky situation where\n anonymity allows conversations to be carried on completely\n independent of the identities of the participants. Some police\n departments run phone services that allow anonymous reporting of\n crimes; such uses would be straightforward on the network.\n Unfortunately, extortion and harassment become more insidious with\n assurances of anonymity.\n\n_____\n<3.3> How can anonymity be protected on the internet?\n\n The chief means, as alluded to above, are masking identities in\n email and posting. However, anonymous accounts (public accounts as\n accessable and anonymous as e.g. public telephones) may be\n effective as well, but this use is generally not officially\n supported and even discouraged by some system adminstrators and NSF\n guidelines. The nonuniformity in the requirements of obtaining\n accounts at different sites and institutions makes anonymous\n accounts generally difficult to obtain to the public at large.\n\n Many communications protocols are inherently detrimental to\n anonymity. Virtually every protocol in existence currently\n contains information on both sender and receiver in every packet.\n New communications protocols will likely develop that guarantee\n much higher degrees of secure anonymous communication.\n\n_____\n<3.4> What is `anonymous mail'?\n\n One approach to `anonymizing' mail has been to set up an `anonymous\n server' that, when activated by email to its address, responds by\n allocating and supplying an `anonymous ID' that is unique to the\n person requesting it (based on his email address). This will vary\n for the same person for different machine address email\n originations. To send anonymous mail, the user sends email directed\n to the server containing the final destination. The server\n `anonymizes' the message by stripping of identification information\n and forwards the message, which appears to originate from the\n anonymous server only from the corresponding anonymous user id. \n This is the `interactive' use of anonymity or pseudonymity\n mentioned above.\n\n Another more `fringe' approach is to run a `cypherpunk' remailer\n from a regular user account (no root system privileges are\n required). These are currently being pioneered by Eric Hughes and\n Hal Finney . The operator runs a process on\n a machine that anonymizes mail sent to him with certain\n characteristics that distinguish it from his regular incoming mail\n (typically fields in the header). One has been implemented as a \n PERL script running on UNIX. Several of these are in existence\n currently but sites and software currently are highly unstable;\n they may be in operation outside of system administrator knowledge.\n The remailers don't generally support anonymous return addresses. \n Mail that is incorrectly addressed is received by the operator. \n Generally the user of the remailer has to disavow any\n responsibility for the messages forwarded through his system,\n although actually may be held liable regardless.\n\n These approaches have several serious disadvantages and weaknesses:\n \n - The anonymous server approach requires maintaining a mapping of\n anonymous ID's to real addresses that must be maintained\n indefinitely. One alternative is to allow `deallocation' of\n aliases at the request of the user, but this has not been\n implemented yet.\n\n - Although an unlikely scenario, traffic to any of these sites could\n conceivably be monitored from the `outside', necessitating the\n use of cryptography for basic protection,.\n\n - Local administrators can shut them down either out of caprice or\n under pressure from local, network, or government agencies.\n \n - Unscrupulous providers of the services can monitor the traffic\n that goes through them.\n\n - Most remailers currently keep logs that may be inspected. \n\n - The cypherpunk approach tends to be highly unstable because these\n operators are basically network users who do not own the\n equipment and are accountable to their own system\n administrators, who may be unaware of the use and unsympathetic\n to the philosophy of anonymity when the operation is discovered,\n regarding it as illicit use. \n\n - In all cases, a high degree of trust is placed in the anonymous\n server operator by the user.\n\n Currently the most direct route to anonymity involves using SMTP\n protocols to submit a message directly to a server with arbitrary\n field information. This practice, not uncommon to hackers, and the\n approach used by remailers, is generally viewed with hostility by\n most system administrators. Information in the header routing data\n and logs of network port connection information may be retained\n that can be used to track the originating site. In practice, this\n is generally infeasible and rarely carried out. Some\n administrators on the network will contact local administrators to\n request a message be tracked and its writer admonished or punished\n more severely (such as revoking the account), all of this actually\n happening occasionally but infrequently.\n\n See the sections ``known anonymous mail and posting sites'' and \n ``responsibilities associated with anonymity''.\n\n_____\n<3.5> What is `anonymous posting'?\n\n Anonymous servers have been established as well for anonymous Usenet\n posting with all the associated caveats above (monitored traffic,\n capricious or risky local circumstances, logging). Make sure to\n test the system at least once by e.g. anonymous posting to\n misc.test (however some operators don't recommend this because many\n sites `autorespond' to test messages, possibly causing the\n anonymous server to allocate anonymous IDs for those machines). \n See the ``responsibilties associated with anonymous posting''\n before proceeding.\n\n Another direct route involves using NNTP protocols to submit a\n message directly to a newserver with arbitrary field information.\n This practice, not uncommon to hackers, is also generally viewed\n with hostility by most system administrators, and similar\n consequences can ensue.\n\n See the sections ``known anonymous mail and posting sites'' and \n ``responsibilities associated with anonymity''.\n\n_____\n<3.6> Why is anonymity (un)stable on the internet?\n\n As noted, many factors compromise the anonymity currently available\n to the general internet community, and these services should be\n used with great caution. To summarize, the technology is in its\n infancy and current approaches are unrefined, unreliable, and not\n completely trustworthy. No standards have been established and\n troubling situations of loss of anonymity and bugs in the software\n are prevalent. Here are some encountered and potential bugs: \n \n - One anonymous remailer reallocated already allocated anonymous\n return addresses. \n - Others passed signature information embedded in messages\n unaltered. \n - Address resolution problems resulting in anonymized mail bounced\n to a remailer are common.\n - Forgeries to the anonymous server itself are a problem, possibly\n allowing unauthorized users to potentially glean anon ID - email\n address mappings in the alias file. This can be remedied with\n the use of passwords.\n - Infinite mail loops are possible with chaining remailers.\n \n Source code is being distributed, tested, and refined for these\n systems, but standards are progressing slowly and weakly. The\n field is not likely to improve considerably without official\n endorsement and action by network agencies. The whole idea is\n essentially still in its infancy and viewed with suspicion and\n distrust by many on the internet, seen as illegitimate or favorable\n to criminality. The major objection to anonymity over regular\n internet use is the perceived lack of accountability to system\n operators, i.e. invulnerability to account restrictions resulting\n from outside complaints. System adminstrators at some sites have\n threatened to filter anonymous news postings generated by the\n prominent servers from their redistribution flows. This may only\n have the effect of encouraging server operators to create less\n characteristically detectable headers. Probably the least\n problematic approach, and the most traditional to Usenet, is for\n individual users to deal with anonymous mail however they prefer,\n e.g. ignoring it or filtering it with kill files.\n \n_____\n<3.7> What is the future of anonymity on the internet?\n\n New anonymous protocols effectively serve to significantly increase\n safeguards of anonymity. For example, the same mechanism that\n routes email over multiple hosts, thereby threatening its privacy,\n can also be used to guarantee it. In a scheme called `chaining' an\n anonymous message is passed through multiple anonymous servers\n before reaching a destination. In this way generally multiple\n links of the chain have to be `broken' for security to be\n compromised. Re-encryption at each link makes this scenario even\n more unlikely. Even more significantly the anonymous remailers\n could be spread over the internet globally so that local weaknesses\n (such as corrupt governments or legal wiretapping within a nation)\n would be more unlikely to sacrifice overall security by message\n tracing. However, remailers run by corrupt operators are possible.\n \n The future of anonymous services on the internet is, at this time,\n highly uncertain and fraught with peril. While specific groups seem\n to benefit significantly from anonymous posting capabilities, many\n feel that unlimited newsgroup scope for anonymous posting is a\n disruptive and dangerous idea and detracts from discussions in\n `serious' groups. The introduction of unlimited group anonymity\n may have fundamental repercussions on Usenet conventions and\n distribution mechanisms such as moderated and `alt' groups have had\n in the past. For example, as part of new group creation, the\n charter may specify whether `anonymous' posting is (un)welcome. \n\n Nevertheless, the widespread introduction and use of anonymity may\n be inevitable. Based on traffic statistics, anonymous services are\n in huge demand. Pervasive and readily available anonymity could\n carry significant and unforeseen social consequences. However, if\n its use is continued to be generally regarded as subversive it may\n be confined to the underground. The ramifications of widespread\n introduction of anonymity to Usenet are still largely unknown. It\n is unclear whether it will provoke signficant amounts of new\n traffic or, instead of expansion, cause a shift where a greater\n portion of existing traffic is anonymized. Conceivably the\n services could play a role in influencing future mainstream social\n acceptance of Usenet.\n\n\n* * *", "\n\nBut why do you characterize this as a \"flight of fancy\" or a \"fantasy\"?\nWhile I am unfamiliar with the scientific context here, it appears obvious\nthat his speculation (for lack of a better or more neutral word) was\nat least in significant part a consequence of his knowledge of and acceptance\nof current theory coupled with his observations. It would appear that\nsomething quite rational was going on as he attempted to fit his observation\ninto that theory (or to tailor the theory to cover the observation). This\ndoes not seem like an example of what most would normally call a flight of\nfancy or a fantasy.\n\n\nWell, I think someone else in this thread was the first to use the word (also,\n\"extra-scientific\", etc.). Nor am I prepared to give a general account of\nrationality. In terms of examples, there is some danger of beginning to quibble\nover what a \"surprising\" experiment is, what counts as \"surprising\", etc.\nThe same may be said about \"logical grounds\". My point is that quite frequently\n(perhaps even most frequently) the roots of a new theory can be traced to\npreviously existing theories (or even to previously rejected hypotheses of\nsome other theory or domain). I would offer some rather well known examples\nsuch as Toricelli's Puy de Dome experiment done for the sake of his \"sea of air\"\nhypothesis. Was this theory (and the resulting experimental test) \"surprising\"?\nWell, given the *prior* explanations of the phenomena involved it certainly must\nbe counted as so. Was the theory constructed (and the experiment designed)\nout of \"perfectly rational grounds\"? Well, there was a pretty successful and\nwell know theory of fluids. The analogy to fluids by Toricelli is explicit.\nThe novelty was in thinking of air as a fluid (but this was *quite* a novelty\nat the time). Was the theory interesting? Yes. Was it \"new\"? Well, one\ncould argue that it was merely the extension of an existing theory to a new\ndomain, but I think this begs certain questions. We can debate that if you\nlike.", "Note: I am breaking this reply into 2 parts due to length.\n\n\nI agree that there are no verses that have gone unchallenged by gay rights \nactivists. But if there are zero verses that \"'clearly' address the issues,\" \ndoesn't that mean that there are also no verses that clearly *support* your \ncase? Are you sure you want to say that there are zero verses that clearly \naddress the issues?\n\n\nThe story in Genesis 19 tells of the citizens of Sodom demanding an opportunity \nto \"know\" the two men who were Lot's guests; the fact that the Sodomites became \nangry when Lot offered them his daughters could be seen as indicating that they \nwere interested only in homosexual intercourse. Yes, what they wanted was \nrape, homosexual rape, and everybody agrees that that is wrong. Some \nChristians believe that the homosexual aspect of their desire was just as \nsinful as the rape aspect of their desire. The passage does not say what it \nwas that so offended God, whether it was the homosexuality, or the intended \nrape, or both, but I believe that it is only fair to consider all the possible \nalternatives in the light of related Scriptures. I do not believe that those \nwho believe God was offended by both the homosexuality and the rape are trying \nto say that homosexuality is itself a form of rape.\n\nYou seems to take the view that the *only* sin described in Gen. 19 is in the \nfact that the Sodomites wanted to commit rape, and that it is unfair to \n\"stigmatize\" their homosexuality by associating it with the sin of rape. I can \nsee how you might reach such a conclusion if you started from the conclusion \nthat there is nothing wrong with homosexuality, but then again we're not \nsupposed to start from our conclusions because that's circular reasoning. If \nGod is in fact opposed to homosexual intercourse in general, then the more \nprobably interpretation is that He was at least as offended by the Sodomites' \nblatant homosexuality as He was by their intent to commit rape. Later on I \nwill document why I believe the Old Testament portrays God as One who despises \n*any* homosexual intercourse, even if both partners are consenting adults.\n\n\nThe moderator found my proposal to be circular in that he regarded the church \nas the proper authority for determining what *kinds* of marriages would be \nlegitimate, and thus the church's refusal to recognize \"perverted\" marriages \nwas circular reasoning. My questions, however, had nothing to do with the \nchurch ordaining new kinds of marriages, and so his argument was something of a \nstraw man. In terms of my original question, the precise \ndefinition/translation of \"porneia\" isn't really important, unless you are \ntrying to argue that the Bible doesn't really condemn extramarital sex. I'm \nnot sure the moderator was trying to do that.\n\nIn any case, I think both you and the moderator have missed the point here. \nWhen Jesus was asked about divorce, He replied, \"Have you not read, that He who \ncreated them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, 'For this \ncause a man shall leave his father and mother and shall cleave to his wife; and \nthe two shall become one flesh'? Consequently they are no longer two, but one \nflesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.\" (Mt. \n19:4-6). I read here that the sexual union of a man (male) and his wife \n(female) is a divinely-ordained union. In other words, the institution of \nheterosexual marriage is something ordained and established by God--not by men, \nand not by the church, but by God. Men are not supposed to dissolve this \nunion, in Jesus' words, because it is not something created by men.\n\nThis is not circular reasoning, this is just reading God's word. I read in the \nBible that God ordained the union of male and female. I do not read of any \nsimilar divinely-ordained union of two males or two females. Granted, there \nhave been uninspired men who have ordained \"alternative\" unions (isn't Caligula \nreported to have \"married\" his horse?), but the only union that Jesus refers to \nas \"what God has joined together\" is the heterosexual union of a man and his \nwife.\n\n(Pardon me for mentioning Caligula. I know that's probably inflammatory, and I \nshould save it for the discussion on bestiality, in part 2 of this post. \nPlease hold off on passing judgement on me until you have read that section of \nmy reply.)\n\nAnyway, my original question was not whether we should translate \"porneia\" in a \nway that condemns only a select few kinds of extramarital sex, my question was: \ngiven that heterosexual marriage is the only union described by the Bible as \ndivinely-ordained, and given a Biblical prohibition against sex outside of \nmarriage, is homosexual intercourse sinful? Of course, I see now that first we \nneed to ask whether the Bible really condemns sex outside of marriage. You \nseem to be trying to argue that only certain kinds of extramarital sex (and \nother sins) are really wrong:\n\n\nAlternatively, it may be that the definition of such terms as \"porneia\" and all \nthe rest was, in Paul's day, what we would call a FAQ; i.e. the Law, as the \n\"tutor\" appointed by God to lead us to Christ, had just spent some sixteen \ncenturies drumming into the heads of God's people the idea that things like \nhomosexual intercourse were abominations that deserved punishment by death. \nPerhaps Paul didn't go into detail on what \"porneia\" &c were because after 1600 \nyears he considered the question to have been dealt with already. Perhaps the \nreason God's apostles and prophets did not devote a great deal of time defining \na distinct, New Testament sexuality was because He did not intend any \nsignificant changes in the sexuality He had already established by the Law. \nI'll discuss the Law and homosexuality in greater detail below, but I just \nwanted to point out that the New Testament's failure to develop a detailed new \nstandard of sexuality is not necessarily evidence that God does not care about \nsexual conduct--especially after 1600 years of putting people to death for \npracticing homosexuality!\n\n\nAnd how do you define an \"obsessively driven\" mode of sexual behavior? How do \nyou determine the difference between obsessive sexual behavior and normal sex \ndrives? Is the desire to have \"sinful\" sex an obsessively driven mode of \nbehavior? I think you see that this is circular reasoning: Why is it defined \nas sinful? Because it is obsessive. What makes it obsessive? The fact that \nthe person is driven to seek it even though it's sinful. Or is it obsessive \nbecause it is a desire for that which society condemns? Once again, that's \ncircular: Why is it defined as obsessive? Because the person wants it even \nthough society condemns it. Why does society condemn it? Because it is \nobsessive.\n\nYou seem to be trying to limit the Bible's condemnation of \"porneia\" to only \n\"perverted\" sex acts, but I don't think you can really define \"perverted\" \nwithout falling into exactly the same circularity you accuse me of. What, \nthen, is Paul condemning when he declares that \"Fornicators...shall not enter \nthe kindgom of heaven\"?\n\n\nI think you misunderstood me: I was not trying to make an argument on some \ntechnical definition of \"porneia\", I was raising the issues of the sinfulness \nof extramarital sex and the lack of any Scriptural evidence of a homosexual \ncounterpart to the divinely-ordained union of heterosexual couples.\n\n\nPlease remember what you just said here for when we discuss bestiality, in part \n2.\n\n\nI am glad you asked. Would you agree that if God condemns homosexual \nintercourse even among those who are not under the Law of Moses, then this \nwould show that God's condemnation of homosexual acts goes beyond the ritual \nlaw? If I can show you from Scripture that God punished the homosexual \nbehavior of people who were *not* under the Law of Moses, would you agree that \nGod's definition of homosexual intercourse as an abomination is not limited to \njust the ritual law and those who are under the Law?\n\nI've been having a private Email discussion with a 7th Day Adventist on the \nsubject of the Sabbath, and my main point against a Christian sabbath-keeping \nrequirement has been that nowhere in Scripture does God command Gentiles to \nrest on the sabbath, nor does He ever condemn Gentiles for failing to rest on \nthe Sabbath. This illustrates the difference between universal requirements \nsuch as \"Thou shalt not kill\", and requirements that are merely part of the \n(temporary, Jews-only) Law of Moses, such as the Sabbath.\n\nThe point you are trying to make is that you think the classification of \nhomosexual intercourse as \"an abomination\" is *just* a part of the temporary, \nJews-only Law of Moses. I on the other hand believe that it was labelled by \nGod as an abomination for Gentiles as well as Jews, and that He punished those \nguilty of this behavior by death or exile. Here's why:\n\nBack in Genesis 15, God promises to give Abraham all the land that was then in \nthe possession of \"the Amorite\"--kinda hard on the Amorite, don't you think? \nBut in verse 16 we have a clue that this might not be as unjust as it sounds: \nit seems God is going to postpone this takeover for quite a while, because \"the \niniquity of the Amorite is not yet complete\".\n\nRemember, this is all long before there was a ritual law. What then was the \niniquity the Amorite was committing that, when complete, would justify his \nbeing cast out of his own land and/or killed? Go back and look at Lev. 18 \nagain. Verses 1-23 list a variety of sins, including child sacrifice, incest, \nhomosexuality, and bestiality. Beginning in verse 24, God starts saying, \"Do \nnot defile yourselves by any of these things; for _by_all_these_ _things_ the \nnations which I am casting out before you _have_ _become_defiled_. For the \nland has become defiled, therefore I have visited its punishment upon it, so \nthe land has spewed out its inhabitants... For whoever does any of these \nabominations, those persons who do so shall be cut off from among their \npeople.\"\n\nNotice that God says the Gentile nations (who are *not* under the ritual Law of \nMoses) are about to be punished because they have \"defiled\" themselves and \ntheir land by committing \"abominations\" that include incest, bestiality, and \nhomosexuality. Flip ahead two chapters to Lev. 20, and you will find these \nsame \"abominations\" listed, and this time God decrees the death penalty on \nanyone involved in any of these things, including, specifically, a man \"lying \nwith another man as one lies with a woman\" (Lv. 20:13). Their \n\"bloodguiltiness\" was upon them, meaning that in God's eyes, they deserved to \ndie for having done such things. According to Lev. 18:26-29, even \"the alien \n[non-Jew] who sojourns among you\" was to refrain from these practices, on \npenalty of being \"cut off [by God?] from among their people.\"\n\nUnder the circumstances, I believe it would be very difficult to support the \nclaim that in the Old Testament God objected only to the intended rape, and not \nthe homosexuality, in Sodom. Since God took the trouble to specifically list \nsex between two consenting men as one of the reasons for wiping out the \nCanaanite nations, (not homosexual rape, mind you, but plain, voluntary gay \nsex), I'd say God was not neutral on the subject of homosexual behavior, even \nby those who had nothing to do with the Mosaic Covenant.\n\n\nAccording to II Tim. 3:16, all Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable \nfor teaching, reproof, correction, and training in righteousness; thus, I \nbelieve that even though we Gentile Christians are not under the Law, we can \nlearn from studying it. If a certain action is defined as a sin because it is \na violation of the Law, then it is a sin only for those who are under the Law \n(for example, in the case of Sabbath-keeping). Where God reveals that certain \nactions are abominations even for those who are not under the Law, then I \nconclude that God's objection to the practice is not based on whether or not a \nperson is under the Law, but on the sinfulness of the act itself. In the case \nof homosexuality, homosexual intercourse is defined by God as a defiling \nabomination for Gentiles as well as Jews, i.e. for those who are not under the \nLaw as well as for those who are. Thus, I am not at all trying to say that \nGentile Christians have any obligation to keep any part of the Law, I am simply \nsaying that God referred to homosexuality as a sin even for those who are not \nobligated to keep the Law. If this is so, then I do not think we can appeal to \nour exemption from the Law as valid grounds for legitimizing a practice God has \ndeclared a bloodguilty abomination that defiles both Jew and Gentile.\n\n(continued in Part 2)", ": In article <1993May12.193454.29823@hal.com>, bobp@hal.com (Bob Pendleton) writes...\n: >From article <1993May7.235404.22590@pony.Ingres.COM>, by mwmeyer@Ingres.COM (Mike (wading through the muck and) Meyer):\n: >> This is getting pretty silly. First off, \"Hacker\" is an obsolete term.\n: >> Doesn't matter what it used to mean, today it means \"thief.\"\n: >> \n: >> It only means \"thief\" if you want it to mean that. To me, it means\n\n: [Lots of context wickedly omitted by myself :-) ]\n: > \n: >Anyway, if I say \"Joe is a hacker\" to most english speaking people who\n: >know the word they'll probably think he is either a poor golfer or a\n: >bad carpenter. But there are very very few people who will think he is\n: >a good and clever programmer. :-)\n: > \n: >If you chose to call yourself by a term that means \"thief\" don't be\n: >surprised when people think you are a thief. Even if you don't agree\n: >with that definition of the word.\n: ^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^ \n: [....] The narrower view that a hacker, when\n: associated with the computing environment, is a dishonest\n: expert is not so widespread, I'm my opinion, at least with the\n: people involved with the field. IMHO the wider meaning is not\n: obsolete at all, no matter how much the lay press would like it to\n: be! [....]\n\n: Therefore I conclude that if you call yourself a hacker, and somebody\n: perceives you as a thief, then this person belongs to a very very\n: small group that has some computer knowledge, but not enough to know\n: the wider (and original) meaning of the word. [....]\n\nUnfortunately, the general public has a very narrow view of the deep, dark\nrecesses of the art of computing. What little they do see is from the view\ngiven to them by the media. From what I have seen from the media, 'hacker'\nis not a proper way by which to refer to a respected person.\n\nI, on the other hand, know what 'hacker' means from those who consider\nthemselves such. Following is the definition from \"Jargon File 2.9.10\".\n(This is also known as the \"Hackers Dictionary\".) The definitions are\narranged in order of decreasing frequency of usage:\n\n :hacker: [originally, someone who makes furniture with an axe] n.\n 1. A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable\n systems and how to stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most\n users, who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary. 2. One who\n programs enthusiastically (even obsessively) or who enjoys\n programming rather than just theorizing about programming. 3. A\n person capable of appreciating {hack value}. 4. A person who is\n good at programming quickly. 5. An expert at a particular program,\n or one who frequently does work using it or on it; as in 'a UNIX\n hacker'. (Definitions 1 through 5 are correlated, and people who\n fit them congregate.) 6. An expert or enthusiast of any kind. One\n might be an astronomy hacker, for example. 7. One who enjoys the\n intellectual challenge of creatively overcoming or circumventing\n limitations. 8. [deprecated] A malicious meddler who tries to\n discover sensitive information by poking around. Hence 'password\n hacker', 'network hacker'. See {cracker}.\n\n The term 'hacker' also tends to connote membership in the global\n community defined by the net (see {network, the} and\n {Internet address}). It also implies that the person described\n is seen to subscribe to some version of the hacker ehic (see\n {hacker ethic, the}).\n\n It is better to be described as a hacker by others than to describe\n oneself that way. Hackers consider themselves something of an\n elite (a meritocracy based on ability), though one to which new\n members are gladly welcome. There is thus a certain ego\n satisfaction to be had in identifying yourself as a hacker (but if\n you claim to be one and are not, you'll quickly be labeled\n {bogus}). See also {wannabee}.\n\n :hacker ethic, the: n. 1. The belief that information-sharing\n is a powerful positive good, and that it is an ethical duty of\n hackers to share their expertise by writing free software and\n facilitating access to information and to computing resources\n wherever possible. 2. The belief that system-cracking for fun\n and exploration is ethically OK as long as the cracker commits\n no theft, vandalism, or breach of confidentiality.\n\n Both of these normative ethical principles are widely, but by no\n means universally) accepted among hackers. Most hackers subscribe\n to the hacker ethic in sense 1, and many act on it by writing and\n giving away free software. A few go further and assert that\n *all* information should be free and *any* proprietary\n control of it is bad; this is the philosophy behind the {GNU}\n project.\n\n Sense 2 is more controversial: some people consider the act of\n cracking itself to be unethical, like breaking and entering.\n But this principle at least moderates the behavior of people who\n see themselves as `benign' crackers (see also {samurai}). On\n this view, it is one of the highest forms of hackerly courtesy\n to (a) break into a system, and then (b) explain to the sysop,\n preferably by email from a {superuser} account, exactly how it\n was done and how the hole can be plugged --- acting as an\n unpaid (an unsolicited) {tiger team}.\n\n The most reliable manifestation of either version of the hacker\n ethic is that almost all hackers are actively willing to share\n technical tricks, software, and (where possible) computing\n resources with other hackers. Huge cooperative networks such as\n {USENET}, {Fidonet} and Internet (see {Internet address})\n can function without central control because of this trait; they\n both rely on and reinforce a sense of community that may be\n hackerdom's most valuable intangible asset.\n\n: Finally, a true hacker does not name himself/herself one, for this is\n: a title that is bestowed by the befuddled sysadmins and users at large.\n: To me, a sign of a truly great hacker is to be introduced to someone who\n: says \"Nahh, I just know a thing or two, people always exagerate...\" :-)\n\nNote that the above definition does not preclude a hacker from describing\nlimself (meaning: himself/herself) one, but simply says that it is better\nnot to do so. There are many who do not know the meaning of 'hacker'. So,\nin order to defend the true meaning of the word, it is sometimes necessary\nto borrow on the reputation of a known (respected) hacker around the\nworkplace. (This means that 'hacker' is defined in terms of some well-known\nand respected person.) Sometimes, there may only be one such person.\n\n: >No matter what Mr. Dumpty says, language doesn't work that way.\n: Actually it does, you just have to get adequate press coverage... :-)\n\nLanguage works anyway that we want it to work. The purpose of language is\nto communicate. To oversimplify: As long as communication is taking place,\nthen language is working.\n", "\n\n\n The first thing I would do would be to disband Medicare and Medicade! They\nare a primary reason why health care costs are going up. To cover the people\nthat are currently on these programs, I would sell their coverage in blocks\nto insurance companies. The private companies would bid to get these large\nblocks of people, and prices would go down.\n\n To get away from strong federal control on health care, I would pass off\nmore control to the states. Everyone is always spewing forth about how \nwonderful Hawaii is doing. Well, how about giving some other STATES incentive\nto try their own plans\n\n What I would NOT do is try to implement some far reaching federal program\nprogram to cover all Americans, because this is the surest way to fail!\n\n\n\n One sure way to stop throwing money away is to stop giving so much to the\nfederal government. Our FEDERAL taxes should be slashed, and our STATE taxes\nincreased. A strong central government always fails. Give power back to the\nstates/counties/cities, where it belongs.\n", "\n\nThis rumor didn't happen to appear on April 1st?\n\nIf this DigiKey rep was serious, I think I will buy my parts elsewhere.\nIf that is the way they do business, you cannot trust them.", "Your posting provoked me into checking my save file for memorable\nposts. The first I captured was by Ken Arromdee on 19 Feb 1990, on the\nsubject \"Re: atheist too?\". That was article #473 here; your question\nwas article #53766, which is an average of about 48 articles a day for\nthe last three years. As others have noted, the current posting rate is\nsuch that my kill file is depressing large...... Among the posting I\nsaved in the early days were articles from the following notables:\n\n\nAn interesting bunch.... I wonder where #2 is?", "[...]\n\nDon't bother. has pretty much made\nyour pathetic ass superfluous. You lose. Pack up your bags and\ngo home.\n\n\nWell, if the shoe fits....", "\nFrom whose point of view would you like to know what relativism concludes? \nOne of the people involved in the argument, or some third person observing\nthe arguers?\n", "\tI have just started reading the articles in this news\ngroup. There seems to be an attempt by some members to quiet\nother members with scare tactics. I believe one posting said\nthat all postings by one person are being forwarded to his\nserver who keeps a file on him in hope that \"Appropriate action\nmight be taken\". \n\tI don't know where you guys are from but in America\nsuch attempts to curtail someones first amendment rights are\nnot appreciated. Here, we let everyone speak their mind\nregardless of how we feel about it. Take your fascistic\nrepressive ideals back to where you came from.\n", "\nCan we use murder instead of copyright violation, just to keep things\nstraight? The 5th applies only to criminal cases which copyright \ninfringements are not (they are civil).\n\nSteve\n\nP.S. I'm sorry to waste bandwidth on a quibble, I just don't want\nanyone to get confused. I think a bunch of kiddie porn GIFs make\na better test case than a bunch of Peanuts strips and that IS criminal\nboth in posession and distribution.\n", "\n\n\n BUT... Suppose they had waited. The WORST outcome would have been the\none that actually did. But with the FBI/ATF just standing there watching\ninstead of being a part of the problem. It then would have been very clear\nexactly who was at fault then, rather than the way it turned out.\n\n AND, that would have been the WORST case. The best would have been, they\nfinally get hungry and come out. Possible/likely? Well, the alternative was\nworse...\n\n\n\n But what does it matter? Why say \"I don't remember....\" when it doesn't\nmake any difference? Altho the clintonettes have been pretty good at lying\nwhen it wasn't necessary, they didn't do it this time. But it wasn't \nnecessary - claiming full responsibility is a totall meaningless gesture.\nSymbolism over substance - again! \n\n I've offered to take full responsibility. When do they pay me the big\nbucks the AG is making...???? ;^)\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------", "\n(1) Stephen said you took a quote out of context\n(2) You noted that Stephen had not replied to some other t.r.m article\n (call it A) that took a quote out of context\n(3) But the lack of evidence for X does not constitute evidence for the\n lack of X (a common creationist error)\n(4) So the fact that Stephen did not reply to A does not justify the\n conclusion that Stephen condoned taking quotes out of context in A\n(5) You asked Stephen to explain why you were wrong and they were OK,\n or to acknowledge that he was being a hypocrite. \n(6) Both of the choices you give Stephen assume that he condoned\n taking quotes out of context in A.\n(7) I assumed you were being logical, and that the sentence that begins\n \"Could you please explain ...\" was not a nonsequitur, but was intended\n to follow from the sentence that preceded it.\n(8) Therefore, I concluded that you believed that (2) implied that Stephen\n condoned taking quotes out of context in A\n(9) But we've already seen that (2) does not imply this\n(10) Therefore, you were incorrect to believe that (2) implied that Stephen\n thought it was okay to take quotes out of context in A, and were \n making an error of a kind that is frequently made by creationists.\n\nIs that better Jim? It's called an argument. If you disagree with it,\nexplain why the argument is not sound. (I admit that my assumption in (7)\nmay have been a bit hasty.) If you agree with it, just say \"yup.\"", "\nWe want to give lawyers something to do in the 21st cen., don't we?\n\n\nOh I bet you do. They are probably just better at it than our crooks. :-)\n", "\nYeah right, sorta like the Indian sub-contient, eh?", "\n\n\nPity you didn't say something about the use of statistics to justify\ntargeting and persecuting a minority, then.\n\n\n\nWhat in the Tree makes you think we queers CAN'T experience that commitment? \nWhat's stopping us from committing to one partner for the rest of our lives? \nI have every intention of doing so, once I find the right person...and\nwhether that person is male or female, I seriously doubt that a church\nceremony/public vow/licence will make any difference whatsoever in the sort\nof commitment I experience with that person. You have no conception of the\ndifference marriage makes since you have never known any other way.\n\n\n\n\nYou're getting to the right idea here...just be careful of making statements\nlike the above, and you'll be part of the solution and not the problem.\n\n\nNo flames necessary. :)\n\nDrywid", "\n\n\n Gosh. Does this mean I'm not invited to the next\n White House \"barbecue\" ?\n", "\n: Consequently,\n: this verse indicates that she was without sin. Also, as was observed at\n: the very top of this post, Mary had to be free from sin in order to be the\n: mother of Jesus, who was definitely without sin.\n\nIf the mother of Jesus had to be without sin in order to give\nbirth to God, then why didn't Mary's mother have to be without\nsin in order to give birth to the perfect vessel for Jesus? For\nthat matter, why didn't Mary's grandmother have to be without sin\neither? Seems to me that with all the original sin flowing\nthrough each person, the need for the last one (Mary) to have\nnone puts God in a box, where we say that He couldn't have\nincarnated Himself through a normal human being.\n\nMy God is an all powerful God, Who can do whatever suits His\npurpose. This includes creating a solar system and planet earth\nwith the appearance of great age; providing a path through the\nRed Sea for the children of Israel that does not depend on the\nexistence of a ridge of high ground and a wind blowing at the\nright speed and direction; and the birth of Himself from a normal\nsinful person without being tainted by her original sin.\n\nI see far too much focus on the \"objects\" of religion and not\nnearly enough on the personal relationship that is available to\nall believers with the Author of our existence, without the\nnecessity of having this relationship channeled through conduits\nto God in the form of Mary, Apostles and a Pope.\n\n: Note that the idea of Mary being conceived without Original Sin, i.e. the\n: Immaculate Conception, is distinct from the idea of Mary not having sinned\n: during her lifetime, which is a separate doctrine and, I believe, also\n: held by the Catholic Church.\n\nIf Mary was born without original sin, and didn't sin during her\nlifetime, how is she any different from Jesus? This means the\nworld has had two perfect humans: one died to take away the sins\nof the world; the other gave birth to Him? I would certainly\nwant to see some scriptural support for this before I would start\npraying to anyone other than God. Everything I have ever read\nfrom the bible teaches me that Jesus was and is the only sinless\nLamb of God, not His mother, grandmother........\n\n: Hope this is useful to you.\n\nVery useful in helping me understand some of the RC beliefs.\nThank you.", "Dear fellow Christians, \n\n\tI had a dinner last night with a bible study group which \nI am in. We had a discussion about the difference between Christianity\nand Islam. And I was shocked to hear that our bible study teacher\nsaid that Mohammad was indeed a prophet but of Satan. I said, \"What??\"\nI did not believe that, because I have some moslem friends who are\nso kind and nice, even sometimes I feel I wish I could be like them\n(in my point of view, they don't sin as much as I do). How come if they\nwere under Satan, they could have such personalities. \n\nTo tell you the truth, I don't know much about Islam.\nBut I know that they believe in God, they believe in the day of\njudgement.\n\t\n\tNow I'm asking you what your opinions about Islam and \nits teaching. \n\nIMPORTANT : I do not want to discuss whether they are saved or not.\n\t I do not want to discuss about politic related to Islam.\n\nP.S: I post this in bit.listserv.christia, soc.religion.christian,\n and bit.listserv.catholic.\n\n\nIn Christ, our Lord, Smile.........\n\t\t\t\t\t Jesus loves you.......\n\tTabut Torsina\n\tTORSINA@ENUXHB.EAS.ASU.EDU\t \n\n[Let me start by saying that this is not the right newsgroup for a\ndiscussion of Islam, since there's a group for that. But I suspect\nthe point your teacher was making was not specifically about Islam.\nIndeed it's going to be impossible to see what he was getting at\nwithin your groundrules, since the question of whether non-Christians\nare saved is at the heart of it.\n\nThe classic Christian view, which I think most people believed until\nthe last century or so, was that Christianity (and of course Judaism)\nwas the only religion founded by God, and that all other religions\nworshipped false gods, and came from Satan. This is more or less a\ncorollary of another traditional view that no one but Christians (and\npossibly Jews) will be saved. This need not mean that there's no\ntruth in any other religion, nor that all of their members are\nintentionally Satanic. After all, in order to be an effective snare,\nSatanic alternatives would have to be attractive. Thus they might\ncontain all kinds of truth, wisdom and spiritual insights. They would\nbe missing only one thing -- knowledge of salvation through Christ.\nIf this is the background of your teacher's remarks -- and I suspect\nit is -- that means that a discussion of Islam is not necessarily\nrelevant. The point is not that there's anything intrinsically wrong\nwith it. It may teach a fine code of behavior, and its practitioners\nmay all be wonderful people. But if salvation requires being a\nfollower of Christ, it could still be a Satanic invention.\n\nThis is a reasonable deduction from the classic Protestant position.\nChristianity says that salvation isn't a matter of being kind and\nnice. Those are good things, and we should encourage them. But no\none is able to do them enough to be saved. Salvation requires Christ.\n(Please forgive me for doing this in Protestant terms. There's a\nCatholic equivalent to this that has similar implications, but in\ndifferent terms.) A religion may be quite attractive in all visible\nways. But if it doesn't have Christ, it's like a diet that consists\nof food that looks wonderful, tastes great, but is missing some\nessential food element so that you end up dying.\n\nLet me be clear that I am not specifically advocating this position.\nWhat I'm trying to do is (as usual) to clarify issues. Indeed it is\nnow relatively uncommon for Christians to believe that all other\nreligions are Satanic. Most Christians regard such beliefs as an\nunfortunate vestige of the past. This is part of a general move\nwithin Christianity in the last century or so to a non-judgemental\nGod. Christians now find it hard to believe that God would allow\nanybody other than a really rotten person to end up in hell, and they\nfind it hard to envision that real malignant spiritual forces are at\nwork in the world doing things like creating superficially attractive\nalternatives to Christianity. Whether there is actually a sound basis\nfor the shift is a decision that people need to make for themselves.", "\nYou are making precisely one of the points I wanted to make.\nI fully agree with you that there is a big distinction between the\n*process* of science and the end result. \n\nAs an end result of science, one wants to get results that are\nobjectively verifiable. But there is nothing objective about the\n*process* of science. \n\nIf good empirical research were done and showed that there is some merit\nto homeopathic remedies, this would certainly be valuable information.\nBut it would still not mean that homeopathy qualifies as a science. This\nis where you and I disagree with Turpin. In order to have science, one\nmust have a theoretical structure that makes sense, not a mere\ncollection of empirically validated random hypotheses.\n\nExperiment and empirical studies are an important part of science, but\nthey are merely the culmination of scientific research. The most\nimportant part of true scientific methodology is SCIENTIFIC THINKING. \nWithout this, one does not have any hypotheses worth testing. (No,\nhypotheses do not just leap out at you after you look at enough data.\nNor do they simply come to you in a flash one day while you're shaving or\nlooking out the window. At least not unless you've done a lot of really\ngood thinking beforehand.) \n\nThe difference between a Nobel Prize level scientist and a mediocre\nscientist does not lie in the quality of their empirical methodology. \nIt depends on the quality of their THINKING. \n\nIt really bothers me that so many graduate students seem to believe that\nthey are doing science merely because they are conducting empirical\nstudies. And it bothers me even more that there are many fields, such as\ncertain parts of psychology, where there seems to be no thinking at all, \nbut mere studies testing ad hoc hypotheses. \n\nAnd I'm especially offended by Russell Turpin's repeated assertion that\nscience amounts to nothing more than avoiding mistakes. Simply avoiding\nmistakes doesn't get you anywhere. \n\n--\nIn the arguments between behaviorists and cognitivists, psychology seems \nless like a science than a collection of competing religious sects. ", "\n\n\n\nI don't see any way that the concrete floor could do anything to the\nbattery.\n\nHowever, you would have been better off leaving them outside. Keeping\nthem cold would have been better for them than bringing them inside.\nA warm battery will self-discharge faster than a cold one.\n\nWhen you are storing a battery it's a good idea to charge it once a month.\nLetting a battery go completely dead is bad for it (I suspect this is\nwhat caused your problems).\n\n-- ", "\nHi,\nIt might be nice to know, what's possible on different hard ware platforms.\nBut usually the hard ware is fixed ( in my case either Unix or DOS- PC ).\nSo I'm not much interested in Amiga news. \n\nIn the case of Software, I won't get any comercial software mentioned in this\nnewgroup to run on a Unix- platform, so I'm not interested in this information.\n\nI would suggest to split the group. I don't see the problem of cross-posting.\nThen you need to read just 2 newgroups with half the size. \n\nBUT WHAT WOULD BE MORE IMPORTANT IS TO HAVE A FAQ. THIS WOULD REDUCE THE\nTRAFFIC A LOT.\n\nSincerely, Gerhard", "\nThe concrete floor accelerates the problem because it is a heat sink and a\ncolder lead-acid battery self-discharges at a slightly faster rate. That's\nwhy the old wives' tale of sitting it on a piece of wood on the floor works\nto help keep from killing the battery as fast ---- it insulates the battery\nthermally. It you'll set the battery down on a piece of styrofoam, it will\nself-discharge even slower. The best thing would be to attach a small load\nsuch as a small transistor radio with the volume turned down low and leave it\non constantly, but also trickle-charge it every couple days too to \"shallow-\ncycle\" the charge in the battery. Such mild \"exercising\" of a lead-acid\nbattery is the next best thing to completely removing the electrolyte for\nstorage. If you do remove the electrolyte, may sure you keep separate storage\ncontainers for each cell's electrolyte and put it back into the same cells\nwhen you refill the battery. This isn't so critical for a brand-new battery\nin a fully charged state, but will maximize the restored output of an older\nbattery which may not be fully charged when you remove the electrolyte for \nstorage.", "From article <1r3jl5$igh@function.mps.ohio-state.edu>, by nevai@mps.ohio-state.edu (Paul Nevai):\n\nWell, I don't exaclty know what _should_ be done, but what I do is\nkeep my cpu on and turn my monitor off when not in use. I do this as\nmuch for easing power consumption as anything though. Turning off the\nmonitor when not in use has the advantage of requiring less RAM than\na screen saver (but it requires more of MY memory to remember to turn\nit off... pretty easy to remember to turn it on though :-)\n\n\n\n-- \n---------------------------------------------------------------------\nInstrument Approach Procedures Automation DOT/FAA/AMI-230", "\nYes, it is -- you could look it up. And spare us the thin-skinned\nindignation, please; what's sauce for four years of using George Herbert\nWalker Bush and J. Danforth Quayle as an insult is sauce for William\nJefferson Blythe Clinton. Do you feel that calling a President by his full \nname implies some sort of disrespect? Hint: this is a rhetorical question.\n\n------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ \n\nPaul Havemann (Internet: paul@hsh.com)", "Note: These trial updates are summarized from reports in the\n_Idaho Statesman_ and the local NBC affiliate television\nstation, KTVB Channel 7.\n\nRandy Weaver/Kevin Harris trial update: Day 5.\n\nMonday, April 19, 1993 was the fifth day of the trial.\n\nSynopsis: Government informant Kenneth Fadeley testified that\nRandy Weaver sold him two shotguns in violation of the National\nFirearms Act of 1934. U.S. District Court Judge Edward Lodge\nasks jurors not to hear accounts of the Waco fire because\nof possible influences on the Weaver/Harris case.\n\nThe testimony of FBI Special Agent Greg Rampton apparently\nended without further incident, as it was mentioned neither\nby KTVB nor the _Idaho Statesman_.\n\nThe day was highlighted by the testimony of Kenneth Fadeley,\nwho had been posing as an outlaw biker and illegal guns person\nnamed Gus Magiosono. Fadeley testified that he was acting as\nan informant for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms\nin his dealings with Randy Weaver.\n\nFadeley began by stating that he had met Weaver in 1987 at an\nAryan Nations summer conference in Hayden Lake, Idaho. The two\nthen met again October 11, 1989 (note the huge separation in\ntime) at a restaurant in Sandpoint, Idaho, to begin a weapons\ntransaction. He stated that Weaver had said, \"He felt like he\n(Weaver) was being prepared to do something dangerous for the\nWhite cause.\"\n\nThe two later met October 24, 1989 behind the restaurant and\nlater went to a city park to make the sale. During this second\nmeeting, Fadeley was wearing a small recording device to\ntape the conversation. Weaver allegedly showed him an H&R 12-\ngauge shotgun with a 13-inch barrel and an overall length of\n19.25 inches. He additionally showed a Remington 12-gauge\nshotgun with a 12.75-inch barrel and an overall length of\n24.5 inches (NFA requires minimums of 18 inches for barrel\nlength and an overall length of 26 inches). On tape, Weaver\nis reported to have said that he could perform better work once\nhis machine shop is set up. The two then discuss the possibility\nof future sales. Fadeley then counts out three hundred dollars\nfor the two guns and promises the balance of one-hundred fifty\ndollars when they next meet. (Note that the ATF could have\nsimply arrested him here. Why did they wait until January 1991 -\nover a year later - to arrest him? This is not explained).\n\nThe next meeting took place on Nov 30, 1989. Fadeley stated that\nhis \"source\" had only come up with one hundred dollars instead\nof the one-hundred fifty he'd promised. At this point, Weaver\nsuspected he was dealing with an informant, \"I had a guy in\nSpokane tell me you were bad.\" Fadeley managed to convince\nWeaver otherwise.\n\nThe _Idaho Statesman_ states explicitly that three tapes were\nmade of conversations with Randy Weaver. Thus, each of these\nmeetings must have been recorded. However, the _Statesman_ also\nreported that a tape of a telephone conversation involving Vicki\nWeaver (Randy Weaver's wife) was played to the court. There must\nhave also been phone taps.\n\nThese tapes were played to the court via both headphones and\nloudspeakers under the objections of Gerry Spence, Weaver's\nattorney. Spence said to a KTVB reporter that he wanted to\nmake sure that the government proved its case, \"...if it has a\ncase at all...\" according to the rules.\n\nRandy Weaver tore off his headphones and wept when he heard his\nwife's voice on the tape.\n\nU.S. District Court Judge Edward Lodge asked jurors not to hear\naccounts of the Waco fire because of possible influences on the\nWeaver/Harris case. Exactly how such information could affect\nthis trial is not explained.\n\nOther notes: Sunday evening there was a report on KTVB concerning\nKevin Harris. Unnamed agents within the FBI admit that they are\nsurprised that Kevin Harris is still alive. First, they were\nsurprised that he survived the initial gunshot wound(s) sustained\nin the initial firefight at the Y-junction. Later, when Randy\nWeaver was struck by sniper fire the sniper had reported that\nHarris had been struck (not Weaver). Finally, there was a report\nthat the FBI agent who killed Vicki Weaver believed he was aiming\nat Kevin Harris instead. (This is what was reported). Critics\nare charging that the FBI was blatantly trying to eliminate the\nonly non-government witness to the deaths of Samuel Weaver and\nDeputy Marshal William Degan. Some local people believe that\nHarris's survival is simply due to divine intervention.", ": However greatly we extoll Mary, it is quite obvious that she is in no\n: way God or even part of God or equal to God. The Assumption of our\n: Blessed Mother, meant that because of her close identification with the\n: redemptive work of Christ, she was Assumed (note that she did not\n: ASCEND) body and soul into Heaven, and is thus one of the few, along\n: with Elijah, Enoch, Moses (maybe????) who are already perfected in\n: Heaven. Obviously, the Virgin Mary is far superior in glorification to\n: any of the previously mentioned personages.\n\n\nAs I said, it is a provocative thought.\n\nFrom \"Answer to Job\":\n\n\tThe logical consistency of the papal declaration cannot be surpassed\n\tand it leaves Protestantism with the odium of being nothing but a\n\t_man's religion_ which allows no metaphysical representation of woman.\n\t...Protestantism has obviously not given sufficient attention to the\n\tsigns of the times which point to the equality of women. But this\n\tequality requires to be metaphysically anchored in the figure of a\n\t\"divine\" woman, the bride of Christ. Just as the person of Christ\n\tcannot be replaced by an organization, so the bride cannot be re-\n\tplaced by the Church. The feminine, like the masculine, demands an\n\tequally personal representation.\n\t\tThe dogmatizing of the Assumption does not, however, according\n\tto the dogmatic view, mean that Mary has attained the status of a\n\tgoddess, although, as mistress of heaven...and mediatrix, she is \n\tfunctionally on a par with Christ, the king and mediator. At any\n\trate, her position satisfies the need of the archetype. [par. 753-4]\n\n\n: Jung should stick to Psychology rather than getting into Theology.\n\nJung made it clear that he was talking about psychology, not theology. His\ncomments had to do with the psychological _image_ of God and its function\nin the human psyche, not about the actual existence or nature of God.", "My turn to jump in! :)\n\n\nI think you mean circular, not recursive, but that is semantics.\nRecursiveness has no problems, it is just horribly inefficient (just ask\nany assembly programmer.)\n\n\nThe oft-quoted line that says people should be guaranteed life, liberty\nand the pursuit of happiness as inalienable rights, is a complete lie\nand deception, as the very authors of that line were in the process of\nproving. Liberty is never free, it is always purchased at some cost, \nalmost always at the cost to another. Whos liberty is more inalienable?\nSimilarly for right of life. When one person must die if he is to save\nanother, or even a group of others, whos life is more inalienable? \nThat leads into the classic question of the value of the death penalty, \nespecially for serial killers. Whos life and liberty is more valuable,\nthe serial killer, or the victim? According to that beautiful line,\nthose two rights should be completely inviolate, that is, noone should be\nable to remove them. This _includes_ government. Admittedly the serial\nkiller has restricted some people's life and/or liberty, but is not his\nown life/liberty inviolate also? According to the declaration of independence,\nit is.\n\n\nOooh, I like that. It means that killing an infant is not murder because\nit cannot be against its will. Reason, an infant has no will as such.\n\nSimilarly for people who are brain dead (easier to see), in a coma, etc.\n\nAlso, under current law, accidental killing is still murder. How will you\ninclude that?\n\n\nThe only real golden rule in life is, he who has the gold, makes the\nrules. I.e. Might Makes Right. That is survival. Now what is wrong\nwith that?\n\n\nIf you mean the golden rule as I stated, yes, almost every system as\nimplemented has used that in reality. Sorry, I don't deal as much in\nfiction, as I do in reality. \n\n\nWELCOME TO OZLAND!!!!!!! :)\n\nWhat is NOT arbitrary? If you can find some part of society, some societal\nrules, morals, etc. that are not arbitrary, please tell me. I don't think\nthere are any.\n\nSounds like euphemisms to me. The difference seems to be, that objective\nis some reasoning that I like, while arbitrary is some reasoning that\nI don't like OR don't understand. ", "I guess I'm delving into a religious language area. What exactly is morality \nor morals? I never thought of eating meat to be moral or immoral, but I think\nit could be. How do we differentiate between not doing something because it is\na personal choice or preference and not doing something because we see it as \nimmoral? Do we fall to what the basis of these morals are?\n\nAlso, consensus positions fall to a might makes right. Or, as you brought out,\nif whatever is right is what is societally mandated then whoever is in control\nat the time makes what is right\n\nMC\nMAC\n--\n****************************************************************\n Michael A. Cobb\n \"...and I won't raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois\n class to pay for my programs.\" Champaign-Urbana\n -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu", "\n The balls are used to reduce the amplitude of oscillations of the wire during\nperiods of high winds. I've seen what looks like paint cans filled with\nconcrete used for the same purpose.\nMike Behnke | Senior Tech/Advisor | Quid est illuidin aqua??\nFermi Nat Accel Lab | Equipment Suuport |\nBatavia, Il. | Computing Div | PISTRIX!! PISTRIX!!\nBEHNKE@FNALF.FNAL.GOV | |\n\nMy opinions are my own, not of the lab. So, if you don't like them, call", "hello testing\n\n\n", "You can't make a Citizens arrest on anything but a felony.\n.\n \n", "\nIf you want to live with someone, you can.\nIf you don't want to have a civil marriage, don't.\nIf you don't want to have a wedding in a church, don't.\nIf you want to call that a marriage, go right ahead.\n\nI hope that the young people that are around you, don't follow your example.\n\n", "The following are my thoughts on a meeting that I, Hugh Kelso, and Bob Lilly\nhad with an aide of Sen. Patty Murrays. We were there to discuss SSTO, and\ncommercial space. This is how it went...\n\n\n\nAfter receiving a packet containing a presentation on the benifits of SSTO,\nI called and tried to schedule a meeting with our local Senator (D) Patty\nMurray, Washington State. I started asking for an hour, and when I heard\nthe gasp on the end of the phone, I quickly backed off to 1/2 an hour.\nLater in that conversation, I learned that a standard appointment is 15 minutes.\n\nWe got the standard bozo treatment. That is, we were called back by an aide,\nwho scheduled a meeting with us, in order to determine that we were not\nbozos, and to familiarize himself with the material, and to screen it, to \nmake sure that it was appropriate to take the senators time with that material.\n\nWell, I got allocated 1/2 hour with Sen. Murrays aide, and we ended up talking\nto him for 45 minutes, with us ending the meeting, and him still listening.\nWe covered a lot of ground, and only a little tiny bit was DCX specific. \nMost of it was a single stage reusable vehicle primer. There was another\nwoman there who took copius quantities of notes on EVERY topic that\nwe brought up.\n\nBut, with Murray being new, we wanted to entrench ourselves as non-corporate\naligned (I.E. not speaking for boeing) local citizens interentested in space.\nSo, we spent a lot of time covering the benifits of lower cost access to\nLEO. Solar power satellites are a big focus here, so we hit them as becoming \nfeasible with lower cost access, and we hit the environmental stand on that.\nWe hit the tourism angle, and I left a copy of the patric Collins Tourism\npaper, with side notes being that everyone who goes into space, and sees the\natmosphere becomes more of an environmentalist, esp. after SEEING the smog\nover L.A. We hit on the benifits of studying bone decalcification (which is \nmore pronounced in space, and said that that had POTENTIAL to lead to \nunderstanding of, and MAYBE a cure for osteoporosis. We hit the education \nwhereby kids get enthused by space, but as they get older and find out that\nthey havent a hop in hell of actually getting there, they go on to other\nfields, with low cost to orbit, the chances they might get there someday \nwould provide greater incentive to hit the harder classes needed.\n\nWe hit a little of the get nasa out of the operational launch vehicle business\nangle. We hit the lower cost of satellite launches, gps navigation, personal\ncommunicators, tellecommunications, new services, etc... Jobs provided\nin those sectors.\n\nJobs provided building the thing, balance of trade improvement, etc..\nWe mentioned that skypix would benifit from lower launch costs.\n\nWe left the paper on what technologies needed to be invested in in order\nto make this even easier to do. And he asked questions on this point.\n\nWe ended by telling her that we wanted her to be aware that efforts are\nproceeding in this area, and that we want to make sure that the\nresults from these efforts are not lost (much like condor, or majellan),\nand most importantly, we asked that she help fund further efforts along\nthe lines of lowering the cost to LEO.\n\nIn the middle we also gave a little speal about the Lunar Resource Data \nPurchase act, and the guy filed it separately, he was VERY interested in it.\nHe asked some questions about it, and seemed like he wanted to jump on it,\nand contact some of the people involved with it, so something may actually\nhappen immediatly there.\n\nThe last two things we did were to make sure that they knew that we\nknew a lot of people in the space arena here in town, and that they\ncould feel free to call us any time with questions, and if we didn't know\nthe answers, that we would see to it that they questions got to people who\nreally did know the answers.\n\nThen finally, we asked for an appointment with the senator herself. He\nsaid that we would get on the list, and he also said that knowing her, this\nwould be something that she would be very interested in, although they\ndo have a time problem getting her scheduled, since she is only in the\nstate 1 week out of 6 these days.\n\nAll in all we felt like we did a pretty good job.", "\n\n >\tI realize I'm entering this discussion rather late, but I do\n >have one question. Wasn't it a Reagan appointee, James Watt, a\n >pentacostal christian (I think) who was the secretary of the interior\n >who saw no problem with deforestation since we were \"living in the\n >last days\" and ours would be the last generation to see the redwoods\n >anyway?\n\n I heard the same thing, but without confirmation that he actually said it.\n It was just as alarming to us as to you; the Bible says that nobody knows\n when the second coming will take place.", "\nAnd done in SECRET ... :-)\n\nDid anybody notice it is the TREASURY DEPT (The FBI and BATF, in other words)\nthat Clinton wants to do the investigation? In other words, investigating\nthemselves?\n\nHe sure didn't seem very enthusiastic about Congress doing the investigation,\nI notice: \"... well, they can do what they want...\" (Probably insert\na pout here...)\n\nDoes anybody smell the attempt for a WHITEWASH? Betcha the Justice\nDept investigation will, AT MOST say \"Possible Poor Judjement. Too bad...\"\n\nGrrr.\n\n\n", ":\n:So much for \"infinite patience.\"\n: \n;I find it hard to swallow that prolonged exposure to \"massive\" amounts of\n:\n:And they said that the bomb dropped on MOVE wouldn't start a fire, either.\n:\n:The real kicker, though, is the stated justification for the government's \n:sudden loss of patience: They wouldn't be able to \"rotate their teams\" \n:\n:This outcome could be foreseen a mile (or two) away, but Reno didn't even\n:\n:Malcolm Fuller, Surveying Engineering, University of New Brunswick\n\nThe really good part: \"At this point we're not negotiating,\" FBI spokesman\nBob Ricks said at a news briefing about a half hour before the fire began. \n\"We're saying,'Come out.Come out with your hands up. This matter is over.'\"\n\nCriminal... so much for Billary saying we won't force the issue... anybody\nhave the WH information number? Figure ol' Bill could use a lesson from the\nROTC he scorned: \"You are responsible for all that your unit/troops do or fail\nto do.\" Want to ask him how he enjoys being responsible for violating the\nConstitutional rights of a group, resulting in the deaths of over a hundred of them, plus four Federal agents...\n\nJames\n", "\n\nWell, I've provided examples to show that the trend was general, and you\n(or others) have provided some counterexamples, mostly ones surrounding\nmating practices, etc. I don't think that these few cases are enough to\ndisprove the general trend of natural morality. And, again, the mating\npractices need to be reexamined...\n\n\nNo, but mating practices are a special case. I'll have to think about it\nsome more.\n\n\nIndeed. But, while the natural system is objective, all objective systems\nare not the natural one. So, the terms can not be equated. The natural\nsystem is a subset of the objective ones.\n\n\nI don't claim that homosexuality is immoral. It isn't harmful, although\nit isn't helpful either (to the mating process). And, when you say that\nhomosexuality is observed in the animal kingdom, don't you mean \"bisexuality?\"\n\n\nThis is standard jargon. Read any textbook. The \"we\" forms are used\nthroughout.\n\n\nThat's right. The goals themselves aren't inherent.\n\n\nYou could, but such would contradict observations.\n\n\nBut a postulate is something that is generally (or always) found to be\ntrue. I don't think your postulate would be valid.\n\n\nYes, and I think the goals of survival and happiness *do* work. You think\nthey don't? Or are they not good goals?", "\n\nTo keep from flooding s.c.u, I e-mailed it. However, I agree that it's\nquite the sneaky trick. No more than I would expect, however.\n-- ", "\n[stuff about hardware keys]\n\n\nTrue, which is why many of the newer keys ship out, oh, maybe 32 bits or\nso, have the key encrypt them, and return them to the PC. Making a bunch\nof these 32 bits part of your program code is a good way to make sure\nthings won't run without the key. :-) Anyway, then, this scheme at least\ndefeats your approach. It's a little costly, though.\n\nPersonally, I don't believe in copy protection, and agree with the thought\nthat the mass inconvenience that it causes all legal users far outweighs\nthe gains from what few pirates won't be able to copy the program.", "\n\n\n\n\nYou might as well have. You certainly would not have been in error if\nyou would have.", "Just finished reading Burton Mack's new book, _The Lost Gospel, Q and Christian\nOrigins_. I thought it was totally cool. Anyone else read it and want to \ntalk?", "//// Much stuff deleted //////", "A person posted certain stuff to this newsgroup, which were highly\nselected quotes stripped of their context. Here is the complete\nposting which was quoted (lacking the context of other postings in \nwhich it was made):\n\n\nProbably within 50 years, it will be possible to disassemble and\nre-assemble our bodies at the molecular level. Not only will flawless\ncosmetic surgery be possible, but flawless cosmetic PSYCHOSURGERY.\n\nWhat will it be like to store all the prices of shelf-priced bar-coded\ngoods in your head, and catch all the errors they make in the store's\nfavor at SAFEWAY? What will it be like to mentally edit and spell-\ncheck your responses to the questions posed by a phone caller selling\nVACATION TIME-SHARE OPTIONS?\n\nIndeed, we are today a nation at risk! The threat is not from bad genes,\nbut bad memes! Memes are the basic units of culture, as opposed to genes\nwhich are the units of genetics.\n\nWe stand on the brink of new meme-amplification technologies! Harmful\nmemes which formerly were restricted in their destructive power will\nrun rampant over the countryside, laying waste to the real benefits that\nfuture technology has to offer.\n\nFor example, Jeremy Rifkin has been busy trying to whip up emotions\nagainst the new genetically engineered tomatoes under development at\nCALGENE. This guy is inventing harmful memes, a virtual memetic Typhoid\nMary.", "\nWell, I don't normally like to quote myself, but I just got some\nadditional information. I called my state rep (to express my support),\nand the person there informed me that it's actually just a second\nreading of the bill (three are required) for further consideration.\nI'm not 100% sure what *that* means, and I'm also not sure why\nthere's a discrepancy between what the two offices are telling me.\n\nStill researching....\n\nDaryl", "I thought the first thread was hilarious, so here goes another post.\n\nSome more background information on what has happened to my poor batteries.\n\n One year, I left the batteries in the garage. The garage is Unheated. \nThey were left in their places that they needed to be. One in the riding\nlawnmower (what a lux) and one in each motorcycle. The battery in the \nriding lawnmower was about 3-4 years old, and one of the cycle batteries \nwas new, and one was around 5 years old. Upon spring time, I discovered\nthat all of the batteries were dead, and needed to be recharged. They all\nworked properly, except for the older ones, and they had to be replaced \nabout halfway through the summer. (they had originally been stored\nin the garage, and I think I remember my dad charging them in spring)\n Last year, I decided to bring them in to the basement, which has two parts.\none is dirt and brick, and the other is concrete. I brought in all three, and\ndiscovered in the spring, (about 15 days ago) that not only were the batteries\ndead, but when I put the charger on them, the charger said \"HMMMMMMMM\" and \nthe amp-meter read around 1,000,000,000 (In other words, it was pinned)\nthe internal circut tripped, and I went on to the other batteries. They\nwere the same. \n Realizing that we still had 2 GIGANTIC sailboat batteries, also lead\nacid, I decided to put the charger on them. (these had been sitting for around 1 and a half years, on the brick and dirt part) and noticed that they only\nneeded a small charge, around 2 hours or so on trickle. I tested them\nby using them at the local gas station for giving jump starts, and they\nworked fine for around 25 of 'em. \n This leads me to believe one of several things.\n 1) I bought really #$%tty batteries last year. (sorta true)\n 2) the concrete has something to do with the discharge of the\n batteries.\n 3) There was enough moisture to short out the terminals in the \n room where the concrete is, \n 4) The dirt room was able to absorb the moisture in the air\n better than concrete.\n\n(BTW, I can almost waterski in the dirt room) ", "\nIt is one thing to be open-minded about phenomona that have not\nbe demonstrated to be false, and quite another to \"believe\" in\nsomething like Krilian photography, where *all* the claimed effects\nhave be demonstrated to be artifacts. There is no longer any reason\nto adopt a \"wait and see\" attitude about Krilian photography, it\nhas been experimentally shown to be nothing but simple coronal\ndischarge. The \"auras\" shown by missing leaf parts came from \nmoisture left by the original whole leaf, for example. \n\nThat's what science is, son.", "In <1993Apr21.175443.5338@dct.ac.uk> mcsdc1jpb@dct.ac.uk (John Bell) dribbles\nin his nappies and manages to splutter:\n\n\tYou know, John, if you had kept the follow-up to line here on talk\npolitics guns, we might have taken you a bit more seriously. It would have\nat least implied that you had some backbone, perhaps a modicum of willingness\nto present your views and support them. I guess we all know better now.\n\n\n\tReally? That's interesting, as I was always of the opinion that\npeople dumb enough to keep a monarchy around and support them with tax\nfunds when said monarchy is merely a figurehead deserve all that\nthey get. Dunkirk, for example. What? That has nothing to do with it?\nThen enjoy your helping of foot.\n\n\n\tAnd they killed a few people of their own, including one child\nat last report. So what? Being a federal agent is not license to kill.\nThen there's CNN indicating that the ATF/FBI actually *DID* start the\nfires which would mean feds killed just under 100 people. If you're\nso hot to assign blame, make sure you don't overlook the obvious.\n\n\n\tMontgomery isn't much of a hero here, either. Amazing how\ndifferent things look on the other side of the pond, isn't it? Not\nthat what you think makes much of a difference in the USA, though, and\nfor good reason. When you can vote I'll take your rhetoric a bit more\nseriously. Right now, you're merely a waste of trans-atlantic bandwidth.\n\n\n\tProof positive that ignorance really is bliss.", "\nOh yes, the good ol' deutsche Bundespost. Shortly after moving to Germany,\nsomeone told me that \"POST\" is an acronym for the \"Public Organization for\nthe Suppression of Technology\". Stimmt, oder?\n\nI miss a lot of things about Germany (yes, including the Bier vending\nmachines at work that were SUBSIDIZED by the firm), but the phone system\nis not one of them.", "[...lostsa' crap deleted. trim your articles!...]\n\n\nlast i heard, \"non-lethal\" was a bit of a misnomer for these things.\n\njason\n", "\nNone of the SUNs, DECs, or RS6000s I've used have turned off the\nmonitor automatically.\n\n\n", "Just because those \"marriages\" are more stable and loving and long-lasting,\ndoesn't make it right. Same-sex partners could have been best friends,\nwithout getting sexually involved with each other.", "\nIn billions of dollars (%GNP):\nyear GNP receipts outlays deficit debt unempl% admin\n==== ==== =========== ============ ========= ====== ======= =======\n1977 1930 355.6 (18.4) 409.2 (21.2) 53.6 (2.8) 709.1 Carter\n1978 2174 399.6 (18.4) 458.7 (21.1) 59.2 (2.7) 780.4 Carter\n1979 2444 463.3 (19.0) 503.5 (20.6) 40.2 (1.6) 833.8 Carter\n1980 2674 517.1 (19.3) 590.9 (22.1) 73.8 (2.8) 914.3 7.9 Carter\n1981 2986 599.3 (20.1) 678.2 (22.7) 78.9 (2.6) 1003.9 8.4 Reagan\n1982 3130 617.8 (19.7) 745.7 (23.8) 127.9 (4.1) 1147.0 11.0 Reagan\n1983 3325 600.6 (18.1) 808.3 (24.3) 207.8 (6.2) 1381.9 10.9 Reagan\n1984 3688 666.5 (18.1) 851.8 (23.1) 185.3 (5.0) 1576.7 8.6 Reagan\n1985 3958 734.1 (18.5) 946.3 (23.9) 212.3 (5.4) 1827.5 8.1 Reagan\n1986 4177 769.1 (18.4) 989.8 (23.7) 220.7 (5.3) 2129.5 7.9 Reagan\n1987 4442 854.1 (19.2) 1002.1 (22.6) 148.0 (3.4) 2354.3 7.1 Reagan\n1988 4771 909.0 (19.1) 1064.1 (22.3) 155.1 (3.2) 2614.6 6.3 Reagan\n1989 5201 990.8 (19.0) 1142.8 (22.0)\t152.0 (2.9) 2881.1 Bush\n1990 1031.2 1251.6 220.4 3190.5 Bush\n1991\t 1054.3\t 1323.0\t268.7 3599.0 Bush\n\n[Source: Statistical Abstract of the US (1990 version), American Almanac \n(1993 version), Universal Almanac (1993 version), Information Please Almanac\n(1991 version)]\n\n\t\tGRAPHICALLY: Deficits as a % of GNP, 1981-89\n\n% GNP\n7|\n |\n6| X\n | X X\n5| X \n | \n4| X\n | X\n3| X X\n | X\n2|\n |\n1|\n |____________________________________________________________________________\n0\t1981\t1982\t1983\t1984\t1985\t1986\t1987\t1988\t1989\n\n\tIronically, Bush could have frozen spending, kept his \"no new taxes\"\npledge and balanced the budget.", "Victoria Hotel Reserv. 2 nights $40\n\nMID-WEEK (Sun - Thurs) Hotel reservation available for Victoria, Canada.\n2 nights/3 days for $40. Expires June 1, 1993.\n\nThis is a LETTER OF CREDIT (fully transferrable) issued by HOTELCO for\na hotel room in any of a number of available hotels in Victoria, Canada.\nHOTELCO is a reputable hotel booking company that provides hotel stays at \nlow prices. This LETTER OF CREDIT normally works for weekends, too, but\nall weekends are booked solid for the summer.\n\nSo, check with HOTELCO directly for available dates at one of its member\nhotels to use this LETTER OF CREDIT before June 1. HOTELCO can be reached \nat (206)485-5200 in Bothell or 1-800-645-8885 during regular business hours.\n\nThen, if you find an acceptable reservation date, contact me for this\nLETTER OF CREDIT.\n\nRoger Bacalzo\nrbacalzo@sierra.com\n(206)828-9094 (home)\n(206)822-5200 x360 (work)", ": \n: No. I make a distinction between working for yourself to survive and\n: paying dues to Mother Nature in the form of labour and working for\n: Joe propertyowner because you do not have the option of working for\n: yourself. Joe propertyowner stands between you and the earth you\n: work and expects you to pay him *and* mother nature for the right\n: to survive. The property laws create a layer of parasites that get\n: fat on the fact that people have *no option* except to work in\n: factories. \n: \nI want people to be able to get the things they need in life. Property\nownership may not be ideal, but it is far better at letting people get\nwhat they need to live a productive, fulfulling life.\n\nThe first experiment in America, where property ownership was denied,\ncaused, starvation, hunger, and death. Few people know that the\nPilgrims originally tried to have common property to grow food and a\ncommon food store. Many people know the hardships they suffered the\nfirst few winters because of it. After arriving, the Pilgrims made all\nproperty common. They all shared in the work and the resulting crops\nwent into a common store. After much debate the new Governor Bradford\nprivitized the land; assigning plots to each family. According to Perry\nD. Westbrook: \"The change was immediately justified by the increased\nindustry of the inhabitants and by the larger acreage planted.\"\n\nexperience that was had in this common course and condition, tried\nsundry years and that amongst godly and sober men, may well evince the\nvanity of that conceit of Plato's and other ancients applauded by some of\nlater times; that the taking away of property and bringing in community into\na commonwealth would make them happy and flourishing; as if they were wiser\nthan God. For this community (so far as it was) was found to breed much\nconfusion and discontent and retard much employment that would have been\nto their benefit and comfort.\"\n\nBradford did not blame this failure on the \"strangers\", but on the basic\nselfishness in all men. He wrote \"seeing all men have this corruption in\nthem, God in his wisdom saw another course fitter for them.\" In other\nwords, according to Westbrook, \"Bradford found private enterprise to be\nthe most suitable economic policy for mankind in its fallen state.\"\n\nLet's not make the same mistake that the Pilgrims made. Private\nproperty allows a society to flourish, the alternative brings\nstarvation, poverty and discontent.", "-> >Now let me get this straight. After a nice, long rant about\n-> >how people need to take personal responsibility for their\n-> >economic and social lives, all of a sudden 1960's radicals\n-> >(such as me, I guess) are responsible for poor people's\n-> >lifestyles? Tell me how that works--or do you think that poor\n-> >people are just too dumb to think for themselves?\n-> >\n-> >There are many reasons for the disintegration of the family\n-> >and support systems in general among this nation's poor.\n-> >Somehow I don't think Murphy Brown--or Janis Joplin--is at\n-> >the top of any sane person's list.\n-> >\n-> >You want to go after my generation's vaunted cultural\n-> >revolution for a lasting change for the worse, try so-called\n-> >\"relevant\" or \"values\" education. Hey, it seemed like a good\n-> >idea at the time. How were we to know you needed a real\n-> >education first--I mean, we took that for granted.\n-> \n-> The 1960's generation were the most spoiled and irresponsible.\n-> \n-> The Depression had create mothers and fathers that were determined that their\n-> kids would not want for anything -- going overboard and creating a nation of\n-> brats.\n-> \n-> Consider the contrast between two famous events in July of 1969.\n-> \n-> Apollo 11 and Woodstock.\n-> \n-> Which group had large numbers of people that could not feed themselves and\n-> reverted to the cultural level of primitives (defecation in public etc.).\n-> \n-> And which group assembled, took care of itself, and dispersed with no damage,\n-> no deaths, no large numbers of drug problems ....\n-> \n\n\tWasn't Woodstock also called the biggest parking lot in\nhistory? They rejected society and went back to nature in their\nparent's cars.", "Items for sale.....\n\nNishika 3D camera\tIt takes very good picture, never been opended\n\t\t\tor used. It came with wide angle flesh, carring\n\t\t\tcase, film, and a instruction video. It has four\n\t\t\tlens and created a 3D effect on a regular 35mm\n\t\t\tfilm.\n\nJewelry\t\t\tIt came with the package as additional gift.\n\nBahama vacation voucher\tThe voucher is good for two RT airfare to Freeport.\n\t\t\tThe users get a special hotel rate of $27 per-person\n\t\t\tper-night. Meals, ground transfer, hotel tax is\n\t\t\t_not_ included.\n\nLas Vegas, Reno, Orlando\tThe voucher provides one RT airfare, and\n\t\t\t\thotel accomodation for 3 days/ 2 nights.\n\t\t\t\tMeals, ground transfer, hotel tax is not\n\t\t\t\tincluded. The voucher is good for all 3\n\t\t\t\tlocations, but you can't travel to all 3\n\t\t\t\tplaces at once.\n\nCancun, Mexico\t\tThe voucher provides one RT airfare, and hotel\n\t\t\taccomodation for 3 days / 2 nights. Meals and\n\t\t\tground transfer, hotel tax is not included as\n\t\t\tusual.\n\n\nAsking for $500 or best offer...\n\nI paid $697 for the whole package. And it is too late for me to get the \nrefund. I would sell it for $500 for the whole package. Details could be \nprovided by request. I do wish to sell the whole package at once. So if \nyou are just looking for the vacation vouchers, I don't care if you \nsell the camera to other for a higher price. If you are interested in \nthe camera, you could treat the vacation vouchers as gift.\n\nSome of you might receive a letter in your mail box which says that you \nare selected to be part of the sweeptake and you have at least one out \nof five awards. Trust me, you would get the exactly the same package as \nI did. There is only one award which will be given away. So don't \nbother even to call them back, if you are really interested, you could \nget it from me for a cheaper price. And you could receive the package \nwithin a week ( I waited three months to get my first and final packages). \nAlso, they would ask for your credit card number and you have to pay \nfor the interest to the credit card company. So why spend more than you\nshould when you could get them from me for a cheaper price.\n\nIf you are interested, please reply to me as soon as posible. I really\nwish to get this over with. Make me an offer, if I am confortable with\nyour offer, I would send the package by U.P.S. the next day morning.\nMore details could be given if you wish.\n\nPlease contact me at koutd@hirama.hiram.edu", "\nAt Robert Gordon University, programming was the main (most time-consuming) \nstart of the course. The first two years consisted of five subjects:\nSoftware Engineering (Pascal/C/UNIX), Computer Engineering (6502/6809/68000 \nassembler), Computer Theory (LISP/Prolog), Mathematics/Statistics and \nCommunication Skills (How to pass interviews/intelligence tests and group\ndiscussions e.g. How to survive a helicopter crash in the North Sea).\nThe third year (Industrial placement) was spent working for a computer company \nfor a year. The company could be anywhere in Europe (there was a special \nTravel Allowance Scheme to cover the visiting costs of professors). \nThe fourth year included Operating Systems(C/Modula-2), Software Engineering \n(C/8086 assembler), Real Time Laboratory (C/68000 assembler) and Computing \nTheory (LISP). There were also Group Projects in 2nd and 4th Years, where \nstudents worked in teams to select their own project or decide to work for an \noutside company (the only disadvantage being that specifications would change \nsuddenly).\n \nIn the first four years, there was a 50%:50% weighting between courseworks and \nexams for most subjects. However in the Honours year, this was reduced to a \n30%:70% split between an Individual Project and final exams (no coursework \nassessment) - are all Computer Science courses like this?\n\nBTW - we started off with 22 students in our first year and were left with 8 by\nHonours year. Also, every course is tutored separately. Not easy trying\nto sleep when you are in 8 student class :-). \n\nCheers,\n Michael ", "\nI've just spent two solid months arguing that no such thing as an\nobjective moral system exists.", "\nSomeone stated that the Davidian cult should not be associated\nwith Christianity. Well, I read all those four postings, and I'm\nnow even more convinced that Davididians are truly Christian\nin nature. But sometimes it makes sense to re-label the cult, \nespecially if the ugliness is too much to handle.\n\nCheers,\nKent", "\n\n\n\nWhy not try to eliminate discrimination from existing laws instead of\ntrying to add discrimination that favors your group.", " \n \n\nAnton LaVey's interpretation of Satanism has always puzzled me. I\nread his \"Satanic Bible\" a few years ago for a social studies project,\nas well as a book by Arthur Lyons called \"The Cult of Devil Worship\nin America.\" The latter included a very interesting interview with\nthe Black Pope in which he did indeed say that Satan was merely an\ninstrument for one to realize the self. \n\nWhen I refer to Satanism, I am referring to the mishmash of rural Satanic\nritualism and witchcraft which existed before the Church of Satan. I\ndon't consider LaVey's church to be at all \"orthodox,\" nor do I consider\nits followers \"satanists.\" LaVey combined the philosophies of Nietzsche,\nCrowley, and Reich, slapped in some religious doctrine, added a little\ntouch of P.T. Barnum, and christened his creation the Church of Satan.\nNo doubt the title was a calculated attempt to attract attention...I\nsuppose he could have just as easily called it the Church of Free Sex.\n\nAt any rate, it worked (for a while). In its heyday, the Church had a\nhuge following, including such Hollywood celebrities as Sammy Davis, Jr.\nand Jayne Mansfield. (I have a picture of LaVey with Sammy, by the \nway.) \n\nI find the idea of a Satanist not believing in Satan about as credible as\na Christian not believing in Christ. But if you include the Church of\nSatan, then I suppose I need to alter my definition. Webster's Dictionary\nand The American Heritage Dictionary will have to do the same.", "\nPlease define the words \"shatim\" and \"fasad\" before you use them again.", "\nI asked around in one of the areas you suggested yourself, and presented\nthe information I got. No mention of US landmines was given.\n\n\nOkay, so you are going to blindly believe in things without reasonable\nevidence? I didn't realize you were a theist. I am doubting a claim\npresented without any evidence to support it. If you are able to present\nreal evidence for it, then great. But unsupported claims, or even claims\nby such and such news agency will not be accepted. If you want to\nstick to the sheer impossible, instead of the merely difficult, then\nfine. \n\nThe statement that if such a fact is classified, then you \ncan't prove it, is a simple matter of pragmatics and the law. If you \nhave access to classified information that you know to be classified,\nand you reveal it, there is a good chance that you or someone else \n(the person who revealed it to you), is going to jail. \n\nI never said that you couldn't prove it to my satisfaction, I merely\nsaid that it was difficult. (Who said I try and make things easy\nfor people I am arguing with :) (Unless of course, they need the\nhandicap).\n", "\nyes\n\n\nyes, seen glue-on, tape-on, clip-on, one-inch square and larger.\nmy favorite is the 3.5 inch plastic U.S.Toyo fan I use just plopped\ndown on top of the chip during open-case service.\n\n\ndepends on the mounting\n\n\nonly if the manufacturer was smart\n\n\nonly if it goes out - got that \"blanket\" effect which doesn't help chip life\n\n\nlonger system life makes good economic sense to me\n\n\nyes - well, not the melted cheese\n\n\nlets you touch the surface - the \"rule of thumb\" for cooling solid-state\n\n\nthe \"attached\" fans look slick and work well but I'm bothered by the potential\nloss of cooling if the fan goes out. at least with the power supply fan you\ncan reach back there every few days and feel the fan blowing.\n\nI prefer to put a stock fan off the drive brackets or front panel\nto blow air across the cpu - depends a lot on case and board layout, though.\n\non-chip fans from Fry's Electronics in the SF Bay Area are about 30.00. I\nget the stock power supply fans for about 11.00.", "=I think that's the correct spelling..\n=\tI am looking for any information/supplies that will allow\n=do-it-yourselfers to take Krillean Pictures. I'm thinking\n=that education suppliers for schools might have a appartus for\n=sale, but I don't know any of the companies. Any info is greatly\n=appreciated.\n=\tIn case you don't know, Krillean Photography, to the best of my\n=knowledge, involves taking pictures of an (most of the time) organic\n=object between charged plates. The picture will show energy patterns\n=or spikes around the object photographed, and depending on what type\n=of object it is, the spikes or energy patterns will vary. One might\n=extrapolate here and say that this proves that every object within\n=the universe (as we know it) has its own energy signature.\n\nGo to the library and look up \"corona discharge.\"\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nCarl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL", "\nIf one does not follow the teachings of Christ, he is NOT Christian. \nToo easy? \n\n\nWould you say all Muslims are like Saddam Hussein? I wouldn't make\nsuch a blanket judgement, why do you?", "In \"David R. Sacco\" \n\n\nYes.\n\nMAC\n--\n****************************************************************\n Michael A. Cobb\n \"...and I won't raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois\n class to pay for my programs.\" Champaign-Urbana\n -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu", "[ There are actually some talk.abortion related comments below, believe it or\n not... ]\n\n\nWell, if our observer X is as likely to be in A's position as B's, and if he\nagrees that both A and B are making appropriate observations and inferences\nregarding the situation, then I would expect him to conclude that there is no\nright answer. Hopefully there would be some other factor which would allow\nhim to make some judgement regarding which answer to accept.\n\nIf, on the other hand, he disagrees with the principles of either A or B, I\nsuspect he would make a decision in favour of the other one.\n\nIt is unfortunately the case that not all moral arguments have answers from\nall perspectives. For instance, I am completely unable to come to any\nconclusion regarding whether abortion should be allowed or not, from my\nperspective. In an ideal world, all living things would have a right to\nlife; but in an ideal world, women would have the absolute right to do what\nthey like with their own bodies. Clearly there is no way to resolve in\nfavour of both these principles. Therefore I agree with the compromise\nsolution of allowing abortion up to a certain time after conception, and\ndeciding on the time based on various (sometimes ill-defined) criteria. This\nis also a sensible move, I think, because it lets people make their own\ndecisions (within reason). And for what it's worth, I am reasonably happy\nwith current UK abortion law.\n\nSimilarly, the situation in what's left of Yugoslavia is a horrible mess, and\nI really can't see my way to any sort of conclusion. There, I don't even\nknow enough to imagine what sort of compromise one might manage.\n", "\n------------ Part 5 of 14 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End of part 5 of 14 --------\n\n\n", "\n[and quotes a lot of stuff unnecessarily]\n\n\n\nAin't got a pair of fatigues... and I don't blast people wandering aimlessly,\nI ask them what they're doing there... I only blast people who display\nobvious violent intent... like black-clad men with weapons climbing thru\nsecond-story windows, or people who break down the door instead of knocking.\nOr people who knock my house down with tanks and set it afire. Sound \nfamiliar yet?\n\nRiddle me this: Why the hell are the CONVICTED CRIMINALS in Ohio getting\nthe kid glove treatment, and the BD's are burned alive without a trial?\nPut aside who started the blaze, I still think any decent shyster can \nmake a case for cruel and unusual punishment, playing the sounds of\ntortured rabbits over the loudspeakers (where's the SPCA in all this?)...\n\nOh, and that's Mister gun-toter SIR to you, bucko. Just because you choose\nto abandon your rights, leave mine the hell alone, thankyouverymuch.", "\nAt Algor's insistance, the shaped charge will automatically detonate after\nthirty years, a la \"Logan's Run,\" in order to maintain population control.\n", "\nI'm afraid that I've lost the thread here. I didn't suggest that all \ngovernment regulations be subject to referenda. So I don't follow the \ncomments above.\n\n\nI mean that an ideology that treats all government regulation as equally\nundesirable and seeks to abolish all regulations is unlikely to draw\nsupport among more than a miniscule portion of the electorate.\n\nFurthermore, I am suggesting that such a plan is not feasible in an\nindustrial society because the weight of litigation and/or misery it\nwould produce would effectively crush productive effort.\n\nNo, I'm not surprised. I just think it's interesting that on one hand\nlibertarians assume a limited government can be decreed, yet on the other\nposit an entire government made up of people who carry guns. (I realize\nthat many libertarians assume that such a government will be \ncounterbalanced by a fully armed citizenry, but it is worth noting that\nwidespread civilian ownership of guns does not necessarily prevent the\nestablishment of totalitarian government, e.g. Iraq.)\n\nYup, sure do. But since I also support the constitutional requirement\nthat the government provide for the general welfare (Article I section 8),\nI'm willing to justify such programs on that basis.\n\nWell, in the first place, I don't support a \"socialized economic system.\"\nI think within limits that capitalism is a fine idea. But it is not\nthe case that \"any third party...is...as likely to be ignorant or corrupt\nas the buyer or seller.\" There are multitudes of examples where such a\nstatement is demonstrably false. Regulation of stock market transactions\nthat provide a reasonable basis for buyers to avoid fraud is only one\nexample.\n\njsh\n", "\nNon-smoking, normal law student needs furnished place to live in Memphis\nthis summer. I'll be working at a firm downtown and will have\nto pass the bar character examination, so you don't have to worry about \nyour stuff being broken or stolen. Call Chris at (804)979-2519\nor leave e-mail.\n", "# #The argument that \"slavery was a dying institution\" was often made by\n# \t\t\t\t\t\t ^^^\n# \t\t\t\t\t\t (IS)\n# \n# #historians, mainly Southerners, who sought to divert attention from the \n# #institution as the central issue of the Civil War. In fact, however,\n# #the argument is specious, at best. More recent scholarship from the \n# #last 20-30 years demonstrates rather conclusively that the cotton/sugar/\n# #tobacco economy and its reliance on slavery was increasingly dominant in \n# #the South prior to the Civil War.\n# \n# This is because the South did not receive the massive momentum of capital\n# intensive growth that the Northern states did. Compare the Northern\n# agricultural system with the Southern and you will see a major difference \n# in the capital to labor intensity.\n\nCapital and labor are one and the same in a slave economy. Except that\ncapital doesn't reproduce quite as readily as slaves did.\n\nSlavery was a dying institution before the cotton gin, yes, but not\nin 1850.\n\n# #It is true that cotton suffered from price depression in the 1840's -\n# #the period used to claim that slavery would not have lasted in the \n# #South. \n# \n# That is not the argument that I have heard. It would not have lasted because\n# the growth in the North would not have been sustained for much longer without\n# spilling over to the Southern states, i.e. Northern industry would have \n# migrated capital to the Southern states, and with that would have come \n# immigrant labor to the ports of the South, e.g. Charleston, Savannah, Mobile,\n# New Orleans, etc. This would have put the breaks on the slave market and\n# slavery would have been out-moded by the capital intensity of competing \n# agriculturalists. Those that insisted on keeping slaves because of their\n# \"Cruel Hearts and Hatred for Black People\" would have been driven out of\n# business. Simple capital to labor ratio...read Michael Parkin _Microeconomics_\n# 2nd edition, and any other basic economics book.\n\nThis assumes that the slave holder dominance over state governments\nwould not have caused the passage of laws to keep out capital from the\nNorth. Since slave holders were prepared to do almost anything else\nto destroy free markets in order to maintain slavery, I do not doubt\nthat they would have passed laws to cripple any serious competitive\nthreat. Thomas Sowell's _Market and Minorities_ argues that the\nmaintenance of slavery, and the costs it imposed on state and local\ngovernments, discouraged not only capital formation, but also outside\ncapital investment in the Southern states.\n\n# \tCraig A. Depken, II", "\nI read it. I found it wonderful. For some reason (no flames,\nplease), I was reminded of Hemingway, Carl Orff and Van Gogh (not\nall at once, though).\n", "\n----------", "# ##For a while, homosexuals paid higher insurance rates than straights,\n# ##and with very good reason, until the government made it illegal to\n# ##do so.\n# \n# Well if we go by this philosophy how many Children do you think\n# we help pay for with our insurance premiums??? Children who obviously\n# cannot be afforded, since the insurance companies have to pay for\n# all of the prenatal and birthing..... What about the children born\n# with horrible flaws who cost the system an arm and a leg to be kept alive?\n# We all pay because we are all part of this society and we should take\n# care of one another.....\n\nOddly enough, dependent coverage costs a bit more than for one self\nalone. But if you really believe your claims, you could make a lot\nof money starting the \"Homosexuals Health Insurance Co.\" and refuse to\ninsure \"breeders.\" But I shudder to think what your premiums will be\nlike.\n\n# Bil Snodgrass III\n\n", "\n[...]\n\n\nNot that I think anyone cares, but this pattern (using other examples\nof course) was discussed 2,000 years ago by Aristotle in\n_Nicomachean_Ethics_. Note that you can't use this insight to reason\nbackwards; e.g.: Since the conservatives see the media as liberal and\nthe liberals see the media as conservative, the media are fair! (though\nI've seen this \"reasoning\" implied) \n\n\nKen", "\n\n\n[ ... ]\n\n\nTo which I say:\nHear, hear. Motion seconded.\n\nHovig\n\n", "\n[ Deletia; in case anybody hadn't noticed, Frank and I are debating\n \"objective morality\", and seemingly hitting semantics. ]\n\n\n It may be that, being a non-native English-speaker, I've\nmisunderstood your usage of \"objective\", and tried to debate something\nyou don't assert; my apologies. I'm at a loss to imagine what you really\ndo mean, though.\n\n\n Wrong point. The age of the universe has no direct effect on\nhumanity's sticking power, in the way the moral system of a society can\nhave.\n\n I'm saying the Universe has a \"real age\", because I see evidence\nfor it; cosmology, astronomy and so on. I say this age is independent of\npeople's opinions of it, because I know different people have a lot of\ndifferent opinions in the matter, yet empirical tests consistently seem\nto give roughly the same results.\n\n\n I can't see how it does that. Put a creationist to the task of\nperforming the tests and calculations, see to it (s)he makes no blatant\nerrors in measuring or calculating, and the result of the test will be\nthe same.\n\n\n Because logically consistent empirical tests contradict their\nopinion. If those tests were just my opinion, then their own tests\n(which would then be their opinion) would contradict mine, even if we\nconducted said tests in identical manner, no? They don't, which I take\nas showing these tests have some validity beyond our opinion of them.\n\n\n Map the activity of nerves and neural activity, if you mean\nphysical pain. You have a sharp point, I'll give you that; but you still\nhaven't given me a way to quantify morality.\n\n\n We agree. Hypotheses, however, can change; I hold that there is no\n\"ultimate hypothesis of morality\" towards which these changes could\ngravitate, but that they could be changed in any way imaginable,\nproducing different results suitable for different tasks or purposes.\n\n\n \"Better\" and \"worse\" are (almost?) always defined in the context\nof a moral system. Your prediction will _always_ be correct, *within*\n*that* *moral* *system*. What you need now is an objective definition of\n\"good\" and \"bad\"; I wish you luck.\n\n\n Isn't that what _you're_ doing, when assuming an \"objectively\nreal\" morality? Besides, what _exactly_ is provably wrong with my\nstatement?\n\n\n Claiming there is no objective morality is suddenly a positive\nclaim? Besides, I think I _can_ lend some credence to my claim; ponder\ndifferent individuals, both fully functional as human beings and members\nof society, but yet with wildly different moral codes. If morality was\n\"objective\", at least one should be way off base, but yet hir\n'incorrect' morality seems to function fine. How come?\n\n As for producing these individuals, it might be easiest to pick\nthem from different societies; say, an islamic one and some polynesian\nmatrilineal system, for example (if such still exist).\n\n[ deletia - testing for footballs on desks ]\n\n\n One thing is \"good\" under some circumstances, because we wish to\nachieve some goal, for some reason. Other times we wish to do something\nelse, and that thing is no longer so clearly \"good\" at all.\n\n Some things are hard to make \"good\", because we'd seldom if ever\nwish to achieve the sort of goal mass murder would lead one into. Still,\nthe Aztecs were doing fine until the Spaniards wiped them out.\n\n I almost always know what \"good\" means; sometimes I even know why.\nI never claim this \"good\" is thereby fixed in stone, immutable.\n\n[...]\n\n Yes, me too, and I've tried a thing or two down that line; it\ndoesn't look good for objective values to me at all.\n", "\n\n\n Interesting that Janet Reno has publically announced that\n we need steal ourselves for more Wacos. I wonder if I can\n get the gasoline concession.\n\n\n\n\n Yup. Kill that bastard!\n\n\n\n\n Ah, yes. The ILLEGAL helicopter, searchign for the non-existent\n PCP lab. I remember it well, even if the media ( and y'all ) tell\n me I don't. Call me Winston.\n\n\n\n Ahhh, yes. The \"non-existent\" canisters. Call me Winston again.\n\n\n\n I did too, but for different reasons. The FBI has a habit of burning\n up people in fortified areas.\n\n\n\n\n Yup. Good. Dead. YEAH! Maybe Janet will do some more, just\n like she's promis, er, WARNED us about.\n\n Like I told y'all before. I would SERIOUSLY consider the following:", "\n I apologize for posting this. I thought it was only going to talk.origins.\nI also took my definitions from a 1938 Websters.\n Nonetheless, the apparent past arguments over these words imply that like\n'bimonthly' and 'biweekly' they have no commonly accepted definitions and\nshould be used with care.", "The Selective Service Registration should be abolished. To start with, the\ndraft is immoral. Whether you agree with that or not, we don't have one now,\nand military experts agree that the quality of the armed forces is superior\nwith a volunteer army than with draftees. Finally, the government has us\non many lists in many computers (the IRS, Social Security Admistration and\nMotor Vehicle Registries to name a few) and it can find us if it needs to.\nMaintaining yet another list of people is an utter waste of money and time.\nLet's axe this whole department, and reduce the deficit a little bit.\n", "\nNot if they are unwilling to go through a public marriage ceremony,\nnor if they say they are willing but have not actually done so.\n\nLet's distinguish _real_ logistical problems (like being stranded on a\ndesert island) from _excuses_ (such as waiting for so-and-so's brother\nto come back from being in the army so he can be in the ceremony)...\n\n", "# \n# > Dear Mr. Beyer:\n# > \n# > It is never wise to confuse \"freedom of speech\" with \"freedom\"\n# > of racism and violent deragatory.\"\n# > \n# > It is unfortunate that many fail to understand this crucial \n# > distinction.\n# \n# \tIn fact, if a speach was not offensive to some, its\n# protection under Freedom of speach laws would be useless. It is\n# speach that some find questionable that must be protected, be\n# it religiously blasphemous or inherently racist. It is only\n# through civilized discourse and not scare tactics that one can\n# enlighten those that one perceives to be ignorant. That is the\n# idea behind freedom of expression.\n# \tWhat you find offensive might be perceived as truth by\n# some and what they might find offensive might be your belief.\n# It is only through free exchange of ideas (and insults as the\n# case seems to be with this channel) that one can change\n# another's erring ways.That is why Jefferson said that here \n# we are not afraid to \"tolerate error so long as reason is left to \n# combat it\". \n\n Does this mean that YOU are volunteering to wade through the\n Mutlu/Argic deluge that comes in every day? Some of us are\n tired of being dragged into content-free pissing contests\n with reflexive bigots. We INTENSELY dislike being stuck between\n letting this crap pass without comment as though it were\n unremarkable and replying to it and getting sucked in again.\n\n Let's keep some perspective here.\n\n IMHO, the Josh's policy of forwarding the garbage in question,\n without comment, to the relevant sysadmin strikes a good\n balance. The stuff was, after all, PUBLISHED on a public\n forum -- from that very site, yet. Hardly a matter of\n confidentiality or copyright. If the local administration\n wants to do something about it, they have that right. If\n not, nobody's twisting their arms.", "\n Horrors, appealing to popular principles. Can we perhaps as the\nquestion of whether the Constitution might have been written to appeal\nto the principles, rather than, as you appear to believe, it was written\nwith something else in mind and \"propoganda\" put out by its supporters.\n\n But let's be honest about something, here. When was the last time\nyou brought up all the valid points against your own arguments?\n\n Or are they simply propogranda? We can't know what Phill *really*\nmeans because he's obviously using arguments designed to convince.\n\n\n If they're true or false, regardles of why they were said, why\non earth did you make a point of calling them \"propogranda?\" That\nwould seem to be irrelevent.\n\n\n Oh, I have no argument with questioning them. I don't believe\nthey no longer apply, but that's because I think most of them were\ngood arguments. I'm not entirely happy about the situation, because\nthey were obviously only applied to a minority of the time, but I don't\nthink that alone is sufficient to invalidate them.\n\n\n Since the U.S. constitution is the basis for the U.S. political\nsystem, most changes in it would require Constitutional change. In this\nparticular case, however the fillibuster is a matter of procedure\nand tradition. It only *should* have been made part of the Constitution. :-)\n\n\n In principle no? That they had less power of that they should have\nhad less power?\n\n\n Phill, we're discusing the power of legislative houses. While\nthe Prime Minister *is* member of Parliament, he is more analgous (although\nbadly) to the U.S. President.\n\n Now, please explain to me how the U.S. House of Representatives\nis \"in principle\" more powerful than the House of Lords (or the Senate)\nbut in practice is less. Are you suggesting that the writers of the\nConstitution *really* intended for them to be more powerful, but gosh\ndarn the thing was ratified before they realized they'd forgotten to put\nthose extra restrictions on the Senate in?\n\n\n Not at all. As any entry level political science course will tell\nyou, people who want laws implemented will always choose the level of\ngovernment to \"attack\" which presents them with the best chance of\ngetting what they want. With national \"interest groups\" it is simply\na very rational thing to do to want the Federal government to enact a\nlaw rather than the states. Less people to persuade, and less \n\"contributions\" to make. \n\n Why do those concerned about abortion primarily concentrate at\nthe Federal level? Simply because if they win that battle all the little\nstate battlefields are won by extension. The same extends to insurance,\nmedicine, and most other questions.\n\n Local government has not \"failed\" in that it hasn't done what it\nshould, but that it is dominated by local interests. Thus non-local\ninterests who want localities to abide by their rules can't get their\nrules past the local government. Thus, since they've got more clout,\nonly in the wrong place, they appeal to the next higher level because\nit can impose its will on the lower.\n\n I mean, let's get real here. Do we *really* need the Congres\nof the United States deciding that x traffice light should be on thus-\nand such pattern? Or that *carjacking* needs to be a federal as opposed\nto a local crime?\n\n The more people want the more Congress will take power to \"sell\"\nit to them for their votes. I don't think the rise of \"special interests\"\nis coincidence with the increased power of Congress.\n\n\n Bingo. The higher up the governmental ladder the less actual\nneed matters, because political power can be concentrated at higher\nlevels, while people with less cloud only find themselves reduced to\nin effectiveness.\n\n\n Then why not simply leave New York's education to New York? I\nremain unconcinved that there is any state in the Union which is not capable\nof educating its own children if that's what they want to do. And if\nyou leave it to them, you only have to worry about the \"pork\" in that\nstate. And since industries can't concentrate their political power\nand wealth, rather they must divide it among the states to try and get\nwhat they want, individual voices have more relative impact.\n\n The problem with the fillibuster is not that you must \"buy off\"\nstates, but that the Congress has acquired too much power to sell pork.\n\n\n But why on earth should we want to redirect it? You said yourself \nthat you have to sell pork to get things through Congress. If Congres\nhas less authority to sell pork and retains its authority to enact\nnational legislation within its granted jurisdiction, the pork problem\nis significantly reduced.\n\n\n The current blocks essentially state that inaction is preferable\nto action, thus it the system is weighted against action. Considering\nthe government the usually the institution with the sole power to\nenforce its decisions by force, I consider bias against making those\ndecisions a good thing.\n\n\n The difference with the lower pyramid is that a) they have\nmore legal, legitimate authority in most matters under our Constitution\nthan the federal government, and b) at those lower levels power is\nharder to concentrate. And c) you get the benefit of not imposing\nnew deicisons on everybody at once. You get to see them tried out\nwithout a national decision. Congressional action usually treats the\nentire country as a whole, yet even with similar problems in different\nareas, different solutions may be called for.\n\n And while I often don't agree with the decisions my local\nand state reps make, at least I have a better option of going to\nthe city council and shooting my mouth off. I'd much rather the\nmajority of laws be made by accessible people who hang around and end\nup having to put up with them rather than somebody far off in\nWashington with half a million or more constituents.\n\n I'm curious what you base your assumption that lower levels\nare more corrupt. \n\n\n Phill, *you* brought up the Federalist papers. We were\narguing the fillibuster and whether or not a minority of Senators\nshould be allowed to hold up a bill. You claimed the Senate was\nsuppose to be a far less powerful House, and I contended there was\nnothing in the Constitution or other writings which indicated this.\nWhich was when you brought up that we can't decide what the founders\nwanted based on the Federalist papers. You argued against them,\nI never argued from them. I have primarily referred to the Constitution,\nwhich places only very small restrictions on the Senate than for\nthe House.\n\n\n The U.S. Constitution is a nuts-and-bolts document. The Delcaration\nof Independence was the high-brow reasoning. (There are a couple of other\nexamples, though, such as the reasoning for the power to tax, and the\nreasoning for the power to grant permits, both in Article I, Section 8.)\n\n\n To a certain extend I do believe the veto has become something\nit wasn't intended. However, I also believe it is inevitable considering\nthe Congress' own abuse of their power to make bills say whatever they\nwant them to say. Unlike most people I think we shouldn't be worrying\nabout the veto, which is fine, but of the problem in Congress which\nalmost necessitates its abuse.\n\n\n *BUSH?* Phill, that's absurd. Bush had *37* vetos, one of\nwhich was over-ridden. Go read up on FDR if you think that's\nanything resembling a record.\n\n\n Why not? What is inherently wrong with biasing the system\nagainst action? Historically governemnt action in the U.S. when\ndealing with issues with a bare minority and a large minority have\nnot been successful. When you're in a position of imposing federal\npower on diverse people, why should the federal government not have to\ngot through something more than a bare majority\n\n\n Now we're switching from a general question of a fillibuster\nto a specific bill. I don't see how it make a difference.\n\n\n Sure it's arguable. Theyr'e *arguing* it. However, requiring\n60% to bring it to a vote ensures that they'll have to have a *good*\nargument. Something that isn't based solely on party lines.\n\n\n No, I am completely happy with a system which requires a minority\nfor *action*. Since U.S. history is a history of carving up population\ngroups and implementing piece-meal on minorities, I feel minorities\nshould have sufficent clout to prevent action they feel strongly enough\nabout. And 41% is hardly a tiny minority. I don't advocate the minority\nbeing capable of initiating actionm but I see no problem with biasing\nthe *federal* system against action.\n", "\n\nI don't see how this logically follows. True enough, Mary received a blessing\nbeyond any granted in all the history of humanity by being privileged to be \nthe mother of the Savior. It says nothing about Mary needing to be a \"blessed \nperson\" _first_ in order that she might thereby be worthy to bear the Son of \nGod. Again, I think the problem is that as humans we can't comprehend how the \nsinless Incarnation could spring from sinful human flesh and God's Spirit.\nRather than simply accept the gracious miracle of God, we must needs try\nto dope out a mechanism or rationale as to how this could be. Mary's own\nwords, \n\n\"...my spirit rejoices in God _my Savior_, for he has regarded the low\n estate of his handmaiden,...\"\n\nsound like the words of a human aware of her own humanity, in need of a \nSavior, similar to what David proclaimed in his psalms...not the words\nof a holy being with no further need for God's grace.\n\nI really apologize for harping on this, I don't suppose it's important.\nIt's just that I see Mary and Joseph and the Baby reduced to placid,\nserene figurines I feel we lose the wonder in the fact that God chose\nto come down to you and I, to be born of people like you and I, to share\nour existence and redeem us from it's fallenness by his holy Incarnation.\n", "As a minor point of interest, earlier news reports claim to have\nbeen quoting the Governor of Texas when Her Holiness referred to\nthe Dividians as _Mormons_ and called for their expulsion\nfrom TX. Any Texans have details?\n", "...", "Ok, what's more important to gay Christians? Sex, or Christianity?\nChristianity I would hope. Would they be willing to forgo sex\ncompletely, in order to avoid being a stumbling block to others,\nto avoid the chance that their interpretation might be wrong,\netc? If not, why not? Heterosexuals abstain all the time.\n(It would be nice if protestant churches had celibate orders\nto show the world that sex is not the important thing in life)\n\nTo tell the truth, gay churches remind me a lot of Henry the VIII\nstarting the Church of England in order to get a divorce (or is\nthis a myth). Note that I am not denying that gay Christians are\nChristian.", ": \n: nobody seems to have noticed that the clipper chip *must* have been\n: under development for considerably longer than the 3 months that\n: clinton has been president. this is not something that choosing\n: choosing bush over clinton would have changed in the slightest; it has\n: been in the works for some time.\n\nActually, many of us have noted this. We have noted that the program\nstarted at least 4 years ago, that the contracts with VLSI Technology\nand Microtoxin were let at least 14 months ago, that production of the\nchips is well underway, and so forth.\n\nNobody I know has claimed Clinton intitiated the program. But he chose\nto go ahead with it.\n\n\n-Tim May", "The U.S. Government's campaign of persecution and genocide against the\nBranch Davidians was a resounding success.\n\nHeil Clinton! Heil Reno! The Gestapo is alive and well and living in\nWashington, D.C.\n\n-- \nKevin, who agrees that David Koresh was probably a first-rate nutcase\n but who firmly believes that the Bill of Rights guaranteed his\n his right to be a religious fanatic and that the government is\n guilty of violating his civil rights and of 1st degree murder.\n\n OK, which small, under-represented-in-congress religious group\n are we going to persecute next and are we going to torch their\n church with a rolled up copy of the Constitution?", "\n The San Jose Mercury News described him as \"a 61-year old retired\nchemical engineer\".", "\n<. . ..\n\n: The next Sunday, the sermon was about Joshua 6 (where the Israelites\n: take Jericho and then proceed to massacre everybody there --- except\n: for Rahab, who had sheltered the spies). With those reports about\n: Bosnia in my mind, I felt uncomfortable about the minister saying that\n: the massacre (the one in Joshua) was right. But what really bothered\n: me was that, if I was going to try taking Christianity seriously, I\n: shouldn't be so troubled about the reports of \"ethnic cleansing\" in\n: Bosnia. Certainly, my sympathies shouldn't be with the Moslims.\n: Considering that the Bosnian Muslims are descendants of Christians\n: who, under Turkish rule, converted to Islam could the Serbs be doing\n: God's work?\n\nPerhaps it would be useful to ask whether those doing the ethnic\ncleansing could be said to be loving those they are killing in the very\nact of killing. Does it reflect the attitude of God, who sends rain to\nboth the just and the unjust? If not, then Christians should be\nuncomfortable with it. Jesus gave his followers the law of love to\nfollow and it is by exhibiting this that disciples will be known. \nDoctrinal (or political) correctness is not the standard, so I don't see\nwhy Christians should be moved against the Serbs because their ancestors\nconverted from Christianity to Islam. It seems to me that as a\nChristian you _should_ be troubled by the ethnic cleansing.\n--\n", "\n\nI agree we need sleep & etc, but I disagree we are _just_ animals. \nThat statement is a categorical negative; it's like saying there are \n_no_ polkadoted elephants. It may be true but one would have to be \nomniscient to know for sure.\n", "Power lines and airplanes don't mix. In areas where lines are strung very\nhigh, or where a lot of crop dusting takes place, or where there is danger\nof airplanes flying into the lines, they place these plastic balls on the\nlines so they are easier to spot.\n", "Candidate Clinton promised to tax the rich, and most folks thought that\nwas a pretty nifty idea. Then President Clinton said he wanted families\nwho make more than $100,000 to bear 70% of the new tax burden, and many\nwere quick to complain that their six-figure income does not make them one\nof the well-to-do. It's particularly ironic (to me) that it's in those\ntraditionally liberal enclaves of the Bay Area and academia where the\nwealthy are struggling so to fit themselves into the mantle of \"just\nregular working-class folk\".\n\nNobody will ever admit to being rich; everybody's middle class. So who\nare The Rich? Well, I'll throw out some stats from the 1990 Census and\nlet you be the judge...\n\nVa negvpyr \nmzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers) jevgrf:\n} In article <1qcdvbINN5ti@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov>\n} > [...]\n} >that would be about $55 to 65 thousand US, and that is what tenured\n} >professors can expect to make. For a PhD with say 10 years experience,\n} >$65,000 is a lot less than what he could be making in industry. \n} \n} Oh? As a 12-year veteran of Silicon Valley, I've seen precious few\n} employment ads that call for PhDs. And $65K is hardly chump change;\n} it's well above the median *household* income for the state.\n\nBay Area average household income is in the mid-$40,000 range. National\naverage is $31,889. The Bay Area has nearly twice the national average\nof six-figure income households (9.1% vs 4.8%*). The cost-of-living here\nmay be high, but I don't think it's twice the national average...\n\n} >In Los Angeles, modest home prices can be $500,000. \n\nA 1,500-square-foot tract house in a Bay Area working-class neighborhood\ngoes for about $250,000. I doubt that the Los Angeles market is all that\ndifferent. It would appear that this definition of \"modest\" is perhaps a\nbit immoderate...\n\n} So what? They're no cheaper for those who are gainfully employed.\n} \n} >In California, $65,000 is not upper-middle-class.\n} \n} It depends upon your definition; it's clearly above average.\n\nIt is more than what two-thirds of California households make. Seems\nto me that belonging to the upper one-third is not an unreasonable\ndefinition of \"upper-middle-class\". Note that if that professor's\nspouse earns $35,000 they become one of Clinton's \"rich\" families.\n\nHere's a breakdown of national, California, and Bay Area household incomes:\n\n <$30K $30-50K $50-100K $100K+\n------------------------------------\nUS 49% 24% 23% 4% * the Census Bureau did some weird\nCA 41% 26% 26% 7% rounding here...more like 5%\nBA 34% 25% 31% 9%\n\nAnd to add a little prespective:\n\nA minimum wage earner working 40 hours/week makes $8,840/year. The poverty\nline for a family of four is $15,171. If they make up to twice that, the\ngovernment considers them to be \"working poor\". Say we decide to call this\nthe \"lower-middle-class\". Then how 'bout:\n\n$30-50K annual income is \"middle-class\". $50-100K is \"upper-middle-class\".\n$100K+ is \"rich\". $1,000K+ is \"filthy-rich\". and $10,000+ is \"Bill Gates\".\n\nmake sense? ;^)\n\n-timr\n", "As quoted from <1993Apr18.000152.2339@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu> by jrm@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu:\n\n\nKind of sounds like Plessy v. Ferguson, huh? Of course as in that case,\nthings change, huh?\n\nNo, if your little fantasy comes to pass, the country will have gone\nTOWARD the KKK. You're of course being a little disengenuous. Violent\nsolutions are never passe FOR THE GOVERNMENT and CRIMINALS (who frequently)\ncannot be distinguished).\n\n\"Avoid situations which encourage criminals\"? You mean don't be a woman?\nDon't be Black? Don't be gay? I'm quite certain that having a surfeit of\nunarmed victims will discourage your beloved KKK from engaging in \"violent\nsolutions\"....\n\n", "\nNot entirely true. A friend of mine was having trouble finishing the game\nGODS and asked me for help since he could not find a \"trainer\" (small\npatch that lets you play without losing lifes). The game is compressed but\nI did find *one* byte which when changed in the original *compressed* file\nwould not affect the decompression and would also prevent the \"shield\" in the\ngame from being tured off turning therefore making you invincible.\n\nThere are many other progs whose copy protection was defeated one way or\nanother and I have seen examples of this with my own eyes. The copy\nprotection schemes defeated were various such as using protected mode,\ncompressed executables, progs that load and execute other progs (possibly\ncompressed), dongles, key disks, etc...\n\nI believe that persistence overcomes even the very best copy protection\nschemes.\n\n\n", "For those who didn't figure it out, the below message was a reply to another\nin sci.crypt, for which the poster put t.p.g. in the Followup-To line. I\ndidn't notice that. Apologies to those who were confused.\n\nThe substance makes little sense unless one reads the prior messages.\n\nHowever, I don't wish to enter into this discussion here, as it will be yet\nanother rehearsal of a long-tired set of arguments. Suffice it to say that I\ndisagree both with the interpretation of \"well-regulated\" in the Second\nAmendment offered by gun lovers, and what I think to be their distortion of\nthe same phrase in the associated Federalist papers. My Webster and my\nreading of the language convinces me that the word meant both under control,\nand disciplined, and not 'of good marksmanship'. I think the latter a\nspecial interest pleading. No one has yet shown a contemporateous reference\nin which \"well regulated\" unambiguously meant 'of good marksmanship', and\nnot under control/disciplined, etc.\n\nThus I continue to believe the Second Amendment is a militia clause and not\nan 'arming everyone' clause. Others are welcome to disagree (as I know many\ndo) and little would be served by rehashing this topic in this particular\nforum.\n\nTo avoid flames, or unproductive rehashings, I note that I've come in here\nto post this one message, just to clarify the one below. I'm now outta here\nagain though I'm available via e-mail.\n\nDavid\n\n\n\n", "\nThis sounds like another of Ali AbuTaha's 57 different \"real causes\" of\nthe Challenger accident. As far as I know, there has never been the\nslightest shred of evidence for a \"harmonic resonance\" having occurred.\n\nThe windshear-induced maneuvering probably *did* contribute to opening\nup the leak path in the SRB joint again -- it seems to have sealed itself\nafter the puffs of smoke during liftoff -- but the existing explanation\nof this and related events seems to account for the evidence adequately.", "Hmmm...intersting (and long) message, but TWICE? Well, I don't care for\nlibertarianism, but that is a philisophical disagreement, not a tactical\none. Reform of existing laws would be an awfully good idea. You wouldn't\nbelieve some of the outrageous things the guardians of our two party \nsystem do to shut out dissent. \n============================================================================\nDavid Matthew Deane (deane@binah.cc.brandeis.edu)", "\n\n\n\n\nJust doing a quick reality check here - is this for real or did someone\ninvent it to provoke a reaction from people? It sounds more like the\nsort of thing you'd have heard, suitably rephrased, from the leader of a \ncertain German political party in the 1930's....", "\n-> According to the TIFF 5.0 Specification, the TIFF \"version number\"\n-> (bytes 2-3) 42 has been chosen for its \"deep philosophical \n-> significance\".\n\n-> Last week, I read the Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy, and rotfl the\n-> second time. (After millions of years of calculation, the second-best\n-> computer of all time reveals that 42 is the answer to the question\n-> about life, the universe and everything)\n\n-> Is this actually how they picked the number 42?\n\n\n-> Does anyone have any other suggestions where the 42 came from?\n\n At this moment the King, who had been for some time busily writing in\nhis note-book, called out \"Silence!\" and read out from his book\n\"Rule Forty-two. All persons more than a mile high to leave the court.\"\n Everybody looked at Alice.\n \"I'm not a mile high,\" said Alice.\n \"You are,\" said the King.\n \"Nearly two miles high,\" added the queen.\n \"Well, I sha'n't go, at any rate,\" said Alice; \"besides, that's not\na regular rule: you invented it just now.\"\n \"It's the oldest rule in the book,\" said the King.\n \"Then it ought to be Number One,\" said Alice.\n", "=>Yup. The demonstration to which you refer consists of placing a leaf between\n=>the plates, and taking a Kirlian photograph of it. You then cut off part of\n=>the leaf, put the top plate back on, and take another Kirlian photograph. You\n=>see pretty much the same image in both cases. Turns out the effect isn't\n=>nearly so striking if you take the trouble to clean the plates between\n=>photographs. Seems that the moisture from the leaf that you left on the place\n=>conducts electricity. Surprise, surprise!\n=\n=\tThis is true, but it's not quite the whole story. There were \n=\tactually some people who were more careful in their methodology\n=\twho also replicated the 'phantom leaf effect.'\n\nYou can also replicate the effect with a rock: Take your first Kirlian\nphotograph. Then moisten one edge of the rock. Lo! and behold! Phantom rock!\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nCarl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL", "From: \nSubject: computer cult\n\nFrom scott Fri Apr 23 16:31:21 1993\nReceived: by igc.apc.org (4.1/Revision: 1.77 )\n\tid AA16121; Fri, 23 Apr 93 16:31:09 PDT\nDate: Fri, 23 Apr 93 16:31:09 PDT\nMessage-Id: <9304232331.AA16121@igc.apc.org>\nFrom: Scott Weikart \nSender: scott\nTo: cdplist\nSubject: Next stand-off?\nStatus: R\n\nRedwood City, CA (API) -- A tense stand-off entered its third week\ntoday as authorities reported no progress in negotiations with\ncharismatic cult leader Steve Jobs.\n\nNegotiators are uncertain of the situation inside the compound, but\nsome reports suggest that half of the hundreds of followers inside\nhave been terminated. Others claim to be staying of their own free\nwill, but Jobs' persuasive manner makes this hard to confirm.\n\nIn conversations with authorities, Jobs has given conflicting\ninformation on how heavily prepared the group is for war with the\nindustry. At times, he has claimed to \"have hardware which will blow\nanything else away\", while more recently he claims they have stopped\nmanufacturing their own.\n\nAgents from the ATF (Apple-Taligent Forces) believe that the group is\nequipped with serious hardware, including 486-caliber pieces and\npossibly Canon equipment.\n\nThe siege has attracted a variety of spectators, from the curious to\nother cultists. Some have offered to intercede in negotiations,\nincluding a young man who will identify himself only as \"Bill\" and\nclaims to be the \"MS-iah\".\n\nFormer members of the cult, some only recently deprogrammed, speak\nhesitantly of their former lives, including being forced to work\n20-hour days, and subsisting on Jolt and Twinkies. There were\nfrequent lectures in which they were indoctrinated into a theory of\n\"interpersonal computing\" which rejects traditional roles.\n\nLate-night vigils on Chesapeake Drive are taking their toll on\nfederal marshals. Loud rock and roll, mostly Talking Heads, blares\nthroughout the night. Some fear that Jobs will fulfill his own\napocalyptic prophecies, a worry reinforced when the loudspeakers\ncarry Jobs' own speeches -- typically beginning with a chilling \"I\nwant to welcome you to the 'Next World' \".", "\n\nWell, there is a fair amount of evidence floating around that indicates\nthat OTO has been around since at least the late 1800s, long before\nCrowley ever heard of it, how long has AMORC been around? (yes, I know\nthat they claim to have existed as an organization clear into prehistory,\nbut I doubt that they have any organizational paperwork\nas a non-profit that can be carbon-dated to 20,000 BC)\n A.Lizard\n", "\nI've been reading this board passively for a while now and find the\nsubject absolutely fascinating, especially from the point of view of\na civil rights nut like myself. My problem is that I'm new to the field\nand paragraphs like the above keep popping up. I'm sure what Mr. \nBellovin is writing about is both fascinating and important, but I have \nNO IDEA what it means. :-) \n \n Anyway I'm keen to learn and will read anything I can get my hands on\nthat explains this stuff in lay terms (I have a decent CS background, but\nnot a huge amount of hyper-advanced math). Can anyone point me to a FAQ\nor a decent source of information about the guts of current cryptography and\nmaybe a little history as well? I read the piece in this month's WIRED, can\nanyone tell me how much I should trust the references they suggest?\n\n Thanks in advance,\n Steve.\n", "\n\nSaab Sonnet III too I believe.\n\n", "\nExcept the drivers.\n\n tom coradeschi <+> tcora@pica.army.mil", "\nLooking at historical evidence such 'perfect utopian' islamic states\ndidn't survive. I agree, people are people, and even if you might\nstart an Islamic revolution and create this perfect state, it takes \nsome time and the internal corruption will destroy the ground rules --\nagain.\n\nCheers,\nKent", "\nKratz comments above show otherwise.\n\n\nBingo - now the question is, does the Glock's qualify? Let's see\nthe evidence that Kratz uses.\n\n\nBut first an aside. Having an air gun proves nothing. Moreover,\nmy comments are based on what Kratz writes. He's free to argue that\nhe babbles in text but actually knows something off-line.\n\n\nHarder than what? I note that almost all revolvers work the same way,\nso it can't be \"harder than revolvers\".\n\n\nSure they can. (Moreover, we know now that Kratz' sample is\nunrepresentative.) We can look at the reasoning. It is basically\n\"these Glocks are dangerous because they're not like my 1911/S&W third\ngeneration.\" Part of that is true, but since those same people don't\nclaim that revolvers, which share the relevant property, are\ndangerous, we see that the argument fails.\n\n\nWhy would I care? I'm not looking for more bogus reasoning.\n\n\nOne can make hundreds of simple statements without having anyone\n\"getting right on your ass\". One merely has to make accurate simple\nstatements. Then you get \"attaboy\"s by mail and publically.\n\nAccuracy is a severe burden, but most of us manage it.\n\n-andy", "\nThat was probably me.\nI meant only that nobody has overreacted yet. It seemed to me that\nJerry was suggesting that people are currently overreacting, and I \nvehemently disagree. I see a lot of talk, but not much action.\nI see now that I misunderstood Jerry's position.\n\n\nNot this bunch. They'll just bitch on the Net for a while, and \nthen go back to lurking.\n\n\nActually, it's not quite that bad, but it's close.\n\nLook, we (collectively) have the power to throw the bums out, but we\ndon't use it. We clearly don't need to go burning things down, but we\nclearly do need to throw at least some of the bums out.\nUnfortunately, the bums have learned to target only small groups of\npeople at a single time, so the masses won't react and throw them out.\nEventually, the masses will react, unless the bums cease their\nrelentless encroachment on liberty and despoilment of the economy.\nThe sooner it happens, the less the damages will be. I don't want to\nlive in a war zone, either -- I want to see the bums thrown out before\nthey do some *real* damage.", "WHITE HOUSE\n OFFICE OF THE VICE PRESIDENT\n_________________________________________________________________\n\nFOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Heidi Kukis\nTHURSDAY, April 15, 1993 202-456-7035\n Julia Payne\n 202-456-7036\n\n\n GORE JOINS STUDENTS IN ORLANDO FOR FIRST KIDS EARTH SUMMIT\n Will Take Part in Special Town Meeting On the Environment\n ******** SATURDAY, APRIL 17, 1993 - ORLANDO, FLORIDA **********\n\n WASINGTON -- Joining students from across the United States \nand around the world for the first ever Kids Earth Summit, Vice \nPresident Al Gore will travel to Orlando, Florida, on Saturday \n(4/17) and participate in a special town hall meeting, hosted by \nLinda Ellerbee for broadcast on Nickelodeon, to hear the young \npeople's concerns and share ideas about the environment.\n\n The Vice President will take part in the \"Kids World \nCouncil: Plan It for the Planet\" from 2-5 PM (EDT) Saturday \n(4/17) in Orlando, Florida. He will tour a display of student \nenvironmental projects, then videotape the town hall meeting \nwhere he will discuss with student delegates their concerns about \nthe environment and their plans for an environmentally sound \nfuture.\n\n The town hall meeting will be moderated by Linda Ellerbee \nand taped for a news special, \"Nickelodeon Special Edition: Plan \nIt for the Planet,\" which will air on Sunday, April 18 at 8 PM \n(EDT). It is sponsored by Nickelodeon and the Children's Earth \nFund.\n\n \"Young people care about the environment because they know \nit affects our future. Across the country and around the world, \nyoung people are speaking out about the environmental challenges \nwe face. They are identifying problems, thinking about \nsolutions, and they are demanding action from their leaders,\" the \nVice President said.\n\n The Kids World Council delegates are meeting for three days \nin Orlando to discuss how to save energy and switch to renewable \nenergy. They will be following the format and goals of the Earth \nSummit that took place last year in Rio de Janeiro. The Vice \nPresident led the Senate Delegation to the Earth Summit.\n\n \"I look forward to hearing what young people have to say \nabout the environment and their future. Their insight into the \nworld around us is important,\" the Vice President said.\n\n (MORE)\n\n\f\n \n\n \n\n \t \n\n SCHEDULE FOR THE VICE PRESIDENT\n Saturday, April 17, 1993\n\n\n2:15 PM (EDT) VICE PRESIDENT TOURS display of student \n environmental projects.\n Nickelodeon Studios\n Orlando, Florida\n\n\n3:30 PM (EDT) VICE PRESIDENT TAKES PART IN TOWN HALL MEETING\n with Kids World Council delegates and\n Linda Ellerbee.\n Nickelodeon Studios\n Orlando, Florida\n\n\n5 PM (EDT) VICE PRESIDENT DEPARTS from Kids World Council\n for Washington, D.C.\n\n\n\n\n NOTE: PRESS THAT WISH TO ATTEND SHOULD CONTACT EILEEN \nPARISE OR MARTY VON RUDEN IN FLORIDA AT 407-352-7589.\n\n \n", "[purile babble deleted]\n\nWell, some form of guaranteed health care isn't a bad idea, but,\nyah, I'm a bit worried of a gubnint-run HMO myself. I'd much\nrather have something like Canada has [and I'll *belt* anyone\nwho tells me to move to Canada :)], but since people will yell\nand scream \"NO!!! NOT ONE LIKE CANADA HAS!!!\", we're\nprobably all screwed.\n\n\n\nImpressive.\n\nLet the \"GREAT CHUCKMEISTER\" make a couple predictions, if you\nwill:\n\n1. The sun will rise tomorrow.\n2. Rush will bash Clinton on his next show.\n3. I will turn out to be Clinton's love child.\n\nChances are, I'll get at least one of those right, if I'm lucky.\nI may even get two.\n\n\n\nCan't argue with you there. Once the gubnint has its hands in yer\npocket, they just can't help but feel around a bit....\n\n\n\n\nOh, no SH**?! You mean, our weakened economy will collapse in\nthe face of all this gubnint tax-and-spending, and everyone will\nbe in the handout line? You're a GENIUS!!\n\n\n\n\nDeficit reduction. Spending cuts via fee increases?\n\n\n\nNo, any first-year PoliSci major will tell you that the Prez\n*never* raises taxes. Congress does it.\n\nAll those who voted the Clinton ticket get to wear this *new*\nlabel.....\n\n+----------------+\n+----------------+\n\nHook, line, and sinker! *chuckle*\n\ncpk\n-- \nIt's been 80 days. Do you know where your wallet is?", " \n(Deletion)\n \nThe reference to it's not yet being ethics is dubious. You have used the terms\nabsolute, objective and others interchangeably. Same with moral values, values,\nat all, worth, measuers, and usefulness. You infer from them as if they were\nthe same.\n \nTo the IF. When the If is not fulfilled, your intermission is a waste of time.\nAssuming that you don't intend this, it is reasonable to conclude that you\nwant to argue a point.\n \nYou have made a interesting statement here, namely that of the disinterested\nobserver. There is no such thing in morals. Probably the shortest proof for\nobjective and morality being a contradiction.\n \n \n \nFine. And that freedom is valuable is not generally agreed upon. I could\nname quite a lot of people who state the opposite. (Not that that wasn't\nmentioned before). In other words, you have nothing to fulfill your strong\nclaims with.\n \n \n \nClutching a straw. I don't believe in mappings into metaphysical sets were\nloaded terms are fixpoints. Those who deny the morality of freedom make quite\nclear what they say, their practice is telling. Yes, there are even those who\nare willingly unfree. It is quite common in religions, by the way. For one,\nthere is a religion which is named Submission.\n \nDon't even try to argue that submission is freedom.\n \n \n \nIf it were so, it would argue my case. But I am afraid that that is considered\nproof.\n \n ", "\nAs she said, the letter is addressed to Bettman. The post (which, though\nhaving pretty much the same content, is an entirely different entity) was\naddressed to all. When she puts the letter in the mail I doubt it will\nsay \"To: All\". I figure she wanted to let people here see what was in it\nsince it is a topic that interests a lot of folks here. That's an entirely \ndifferent purpose than sending the letter to Bettman.\n\nUnfortunately...\n\n\n\nThe \"largest computer networks in the world\" phrase is a definition of \nthe Internet, not a group as a whole that she claims to represent. As\nfor the business of whether or not it is large, it is large compared\nto say, the number of folks on r.s.h. who are sending a letter to thank\nhim for changing the names, at least to this point. And just for my\nown curiosity I thought I'd look up the \"official\" definition of large\nin the dictionary. It reads:\n\nlarge - 1. having more than usual power, capacity, or scope. \n 2. exceeding most other things of like kind in quantity or size.\n\nNow I have no idea how many letters Bettman may have gotten on the issue\nor how many people may have signed them. 65 people may be up there, \nthereby validating definition 2. I would also wager that the geographical\nrange of signatures is quite large, which would give it a large scope.\n\n\nWhy would he be impressed with this unless it were \"large\"? \n\nI am of course assuming that you actually agree with what you are writing\nand are not simply trying to be a pain about the whole issue to hear\nyourself speak. \n\nI personally don't know whether or not I agree with the letter. I have\nvery mixed emotions about it. I like the names as they are, and don't\nthink they make it that difficult to learn the game, but there might be\na shred of validity to the change. \n", "In-reply-to: todamhyp@charles.unlv.edu's message of Mon, 19 Apr 93 20:56:15 GMT\nNewsgroups: sci.energy,sci.image.processing,sci.anthropology,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.skeptic,sci.med,alt.alien.visitors\nSubject: Re: Krillean Photography\nReferences: <1993Apr19.205615.1013@unlv.edu>\nDistribution: \n--text follows this line--\n\n\t I am looking for any information/supplies that will allow\n do-it-yourselfers to take Krillean Pictures. I'm thinking\n that education suppliers for schools might have a appartus for\n sale, but I don't know any of the companies. Any info is greatly\n appreciated.\n\t In case you don't know, Krillean Photography, to the best of my\n knowledge, involves taking pictures of an (most of the time) organic\n object between charged plates. The picture will show energy patterns\n or spikes around the object photographed, and depending on what type\n of object it is, the spikes or energy patterns will vary. One might\n extrapolate here and say that this proves that every object within\n the universe (as we know it) has its own energy signature.\n\nThere have been a number of scientific papers (in peer-reviewed journals)\npublished about Kirlian photography in the early 1970s. Sorry I can't be\nmore specific but it is a long time since I read them. They would describe\nwhat is needed and how to set up the apparatus. \n\nThese papers demonstrate that the auras obtained by Kirlian photography can\nbe completely explained by the effect of the electric currents used on the\nmoisture in the object being photographed. It has nothing to do with the\n\"energy signature\" of organic objects.\n\nI did a science project on Kirlian photography when I was in high school.\nI was able to obtain wonderful auras from rocks and pebbles and the like by\nfirst dunking them in water.\n\nBarbara\n--\n\n\n", "\n\nDo I think Clinton conceived of it? No.\nDo I think Clinton ordered it? No.\nDo I think Clinton was aware of it before it went down? No.\nDo I think Clinton was aware of it after it went down? Of course; who wasn't?\nDo I think Clinton prejudged these people to a certain extent because he\n believed the BATF crap about child abuse and stockpiling\n \"evil semi-automatic weapons?\" Yes.\nDo I think Clinton ever questioned federal jurisdiction in this matter? No.\nDo I think Clinton ever considered the civil rights of the victims? No.\n\n\nSome of us suspect that ALL the unlawful mistakes made on Day 1 were made \non the government's end. That makes days 2-51 nothing but a macho \nalternative to delivering an apology.\n\n\nWho gives a good goddamn about some bullshit \"opinion poll\" of \"most \nAmericans?\" Most Americans swallow the government line that they're fed --\nnot because they're stupid, but because it's the only line they ever hear.\n\n\"Most Americans\" thought the staff at the McMaster(?) school was guilty,\nguilty, guilty. Woops, turns out they weren't. \"Most Americans\" once\nthought that black slaves weren't human beings. Woops, wrong again.\n\"Most Americans\" thought Saddam Hussein was the Antichrist. Oh dear,\nhe was a \"special friend of the American government\" until two years \npreviously. You know, maybe truth ISN'T determined by majority vote\nof a half-informed public after all.\n\n\nYou're just testy because of all those newsbreaks that were interrupting\n\"Roseanne.\"\n-- ", "I posted an informational request about any electronically available\narticles on cryptographic algorithms a couple of days ago. As I\nmentioned, I was interested, in particular, in DES and Public-Key --\nbut also wouldn't mind learning about others. As I said, I can read\nan intro-graduate level text book, having had some mathematics, though\nnot much number-theory per se. I'd like to see the technical details\nof the mathematics of cryptography, as oppossed to the popularizations\nof things like _scientific am_ which just say, \"then you find a\n*really* big prime number....\".\n\nFollowing my request, several people were so kind as to suggest\nreading-lists, which I hope to get around to. Two other people were\nso *very* kind as to send large documents, which I presume were actual\narticles (about 1000 lines each); but I've stupidly deleted them\naccidentally before having a chance even to skim them. If they can\nforgive me for my careless use of file-commands, would the original\nsenders be so kind as to resend? Or anyone else who has good\ncrypto-articles at a fairly technical mathematical level? Also,\nftp-able or gopher-able docs would be nice to know about.\n\nYours, Lulu...\n", "\nWhat does Saturday Night Live have to do with anything? When they make fun\nof someone they do it with a little bit of creativity and talent. You, on the\nother hand, have a complete lack of creativity, talent, and verbal mechanics.\nAnd if you think that SNL is culture, then it just shows where your intellectual\nlevel is.\n\n\nGranted.\n\nOnly in part. Let's not forget that Nixon personally authorized the\nbreak-in of Ellsberg's psychiatrist.\n\nTell that to the House. That WAS the charge. Or are you going to challenge\nme on that as well? Subverting the constitutional rights of citizens has\nnothing to do with covering-up for Watergate. You have been proved wrong,\nagain. But I don't expect you to believe this since your arrogance has\nreplaced your reason.\n\nGranted.\nWrong again. You forgot about Ellsberg.\n\n\nThis would be funny, if it weren't so sad that you actually believe this.\nIn his \"loyalty\" he allowed the people who worked for him to take the \nrap, while he idly sat by and let it happen. If he REALLY was loyal to\nthe people who worked for them, he would have pardoned them before he \nresigned. \n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\"Death to all modifiers, he declared one day, and out of Garrett Johnson\n every letter that passed through his hands went every Garrett@Ingres.com\n adverb and adjective. The next day he made war on articles.\n The following day he blacked out everything in the letters\n but \"a\", \"an\", and \"the\". - Joseph Heller's Catch-22", "\nThere should be no problem with this - just remember to get the number of\nwait states correct!\n\n\nGuy", " \n \n The Brady Bill passed the House in 1992, but failed to reach a\nvote in the Senate. As such, it never reached Bush. (Sarah Brady's\ncondemnation not-withstanding).\n \n It'll probably pass the House again, and will probably pass the\nSenate if they can get it to a vote. Whether of not they'll be busy\nwith other things will be the question. I don't expect gung-ho opposition\non the part of Senate Republicans, since they won't want to over-use their\nfillibuster trump card.\n ", "\nEvil and good walk hand in hand. It is also important to note that\nthe good in the tools lies in the wielder of the tools.\n\n\nI cannot accept this ridiculous leap in logic. Technology is neutral\nto good or evil. When technology is used by \"evil\" men, it is called\nevil technology. When it is used by \"good\" men, it is called good\ntechnology. Really, it is just technology that allows action to be\nrealized more efficently and on a larger scale.\n\n\nTry not to confused the development of technology with its use.\nCertainly, \"bright\" people will be better at creating technology, but\neven young children know how to program VCR machines. Are VCR\nmachines not extremely complex to create?\n\n\nAdaptibility and flexibility is always better at enduring than the\nstiff and stubborn. A young child is soft and supple; an old man is\nstiff and inflexible. A dripping of water can cut through stone.\nThis has nothing to do with technology, rather technology just\nallows us to magnify action.\n\n\nI have no objection to this! :)", "\n\n\nGarrett, you are a really pathetic liar.\n\nSome of your charges are arguable, but most of them are obvious lies.\n\nI challenge you to present us with any evidence that Nixon stole,\nrigged a national election, never mind elections, or used the powers\nof his office for personal gain.\n\nYou can't because there is absolutely no evidence that any of these\nevents occurred.\n\n", "\n\n\tYou have only shown that a vast majority ( if not all ) would\nagree to this. However, there is nothing against a subjective majority.\n\n\tIn any event, I must challenge your assertion. I know many \nsocieties- heck, many US citizens- willing to trade freedom for \"security\".\n\n\n--- \n\n \" Whatever promises that have been made can than be broken. \"", "\nThis is an interesting notion -- and one I'm scared of. In my\ncase I'm a Finnish citizen, I live in USA, and I have to conform\nto the US laws. However, the Finnish government is not actively\nchecking out what I'm doing in this country, in other words checking\nout if I conform to the Finnish laws.\n\nHowever, Islamic law seems to be a 'curse' that is following you\neverywhere in the world. Shades of 1984, eh?\n\nCheers,\nKent", ": I would like to get your opinions on this: when exactly does an engaged\n: couple become \"married\" in God's eyes? Some say that if the two have\n: publically announced their plans to marry, have made their vows to God, and\n: are unswervingly committed to one another (I realize this is a subjective\n: qualifier) they are married/joined in God's sight.\n\nThe way I read Scripture, a couple becomes married when they are *physically*\nmarried, i.e. when they first have sexual intercourse.\n\ne.g. the end of Genesis 2 (quoted from memory) ``for this reason, a man shall\nleave his parents and be joined to his wife, and they will become one flesh''\n(Jesus also quotes this scripture referring to marriage).\n\nIf you read through Genesis in particular, you will often come across the\nphraseology: ``[man] lay with [woman], and she became his wife''. This\nimplies that she became his wife when they lay together, i.e. at the\npoint of intercourse.\n\nCompare this with Jewish tradition: Joseph, when he heard that Mary\nwas pregnant, had it in mind to divorce her quietly -- but Mary and Joseph were\n*betrothed*, not married. i.e., they were in a binding relationship (which\nrequired a divorce to get out of), but *marriage* would not occur until Mary\nand Joseph went to bed together.\n\nCompare with Christ and the Church (Ephesians 5, Revelation 19): the church is\ndescribed as the ``bride'' of Christ, but the *marriage* of the Lamb takes \nplace when Jesus returns. i.e., we are in a binding love-relationship with\nJesus, but we are still looking forward to the time when the marriage will\ntake place. I see this as the spiritual equivalent of sexual intercourse,\nbecause it represents the most intimate fellowship possible between man and God.\n\nIn summary, engagement should be honoured as a binding relationship, but it is\nnot marriage. A civil ceremony is not marriage either. Marriage occurs at the\npoint when the betrothed couple go to bed together. (I don't mean to demean the\ncivil or church ceremony -- ours was great! I don't mean to be too pedantic.)\nHistorically, I think I am correct in stating that the civil ceremony (i.e. a\nmarriage recognised by the state), has only been around in the West since\nNapoleon, who introduced it to keep tabs on the people (although I'm ready to be\ncorrected on that point!)\n\nThis view obviously raises some questions:\n\nWhat about those who have had sex with one or more partners, without considering\nmarriage. Are those people also ``married''?\n\nIf it is true that marriage occurs at the point of intercourse, is it necessary\nto be married in the eyes of the state? (I would say Yes, because this honours\nthe laws of our nations in the West. Although it is not illegal to sleep\ntogether though unmarried in most Western countries, I believe that it is God-\nhonouring to proclaim our marriage to the state and to our friends before\nactually consummating our marriage. Its to do with our being salt and light, and\nalso to do with how people will perceive us; i.e. it is culturally insensitive\nto declare yourself married without going through a civil ceremony.)\n\n-- \n\n-----\nMichael Davis (cs89mcd@brunel.ac.uk)", "I am very interested in investigations of starvation for improving health.\nI am the young Russian reseacher and have highest medical education\n and expierence in reseach work in biological field and would like\n to work on this problem.\nCan anybody send me the adresses of the hospitals or Medical Centers where \nscientific problems of human starvation for the health are investigated? \nAlso I would like to set scientific contacts with colleagues who\ndeals with investigations in this field.\nI would be very appreciated anyone reply me. \n\nPls, contact by post: 142292, Russia, \n Moscow Region,\n Puschino,\n P.O. box 46, \n for Kravchenko N. ;\n\n or by e-mail: kutuzova@venus.iteb.serpukhov.su", "SOMEONE PLEASE BUY THESE BOOKS!!!!! I AM NOT ASKING MUCH!!!!!!\n\nLIQUIDATION!!!!!! Send me your offer! No reasonable offer refused!\nFirst come first served! I JUST WANT TO GET RID OF THESE BOOKS!!!\nJUST MAKE ME AN OFFER!!!!! \n\n* Calculus w/ Analytic Geometry by Authur B. Simon (copyright date 1982), below avg condition but still readable! Give me $8 (shipping incl) and its yours!\n\n* Writing good software in Fortran, Graham Smith. $12 (shipp incl) \n\n* General Chemistry Principles & Modern Applications, R. Petrucci, fourth\n edition. Big Book! (this book + following 2 books $20 for all 3!!)\n\n* Solutions manual for Chemistry book. \n\n* Study guide for Chemistry book. \n\n\nSend me your offers via email at 02106@chopin.udel.edu\n\n", "Hello there,\n\nI am looking out for good scanners (gray-scale only, no color) which can\nbe connected to IBM PC compatibles. Also, automatic tray feeding is a must.\nCan somebody point out good scanners? What are things that one should look\nfor while purchasing a scanner? I do not want hand-held scanners.\n\nMy preliminary requirements are\n1. 75 to 300/400 dpi\n2. dithering / half-toning (various patterns)\n3. drivers for DOS and windows\n4. Standard file formats (what are they?).\n5. Automatic feed.\n6. Anything more?\n\n\tIs there any comparative survery in Byte or PC Mag? Which issue?\n\nPlease e-mail. I'll summerize.\n\n- satam.\nsatam@saathi.ernet.in\n\n--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\nKirtikumar G. Satam ===>> satam@saathi.ncst.ernet.in\nScientist, Network Division.\nNational Center For Software Technology, Juhu, Bombay 400 049\nTel : +91 22 620 1606\t\t\tFax : +91 22 621 0139", " \n ^^^^^^^\nOoops...that should read Selke...forgive me for my insolence.\n \ncongenially, as always,\n \njd\n \n-- \nJames David \nj3david@student.business.uwo.ca", "\n\n\n: How about Kirlian imaging ? I believe the FAQ for sci.skeptics (sp?)\n: has a nice write-up on this. They would certainly be most supportive\n: on helping you to build such a device and connect to a 120Kvolt\n: supply so that you can take a serious look at your \"aura\"... :-)\n\n: Filipe Santos\n: CERN - European Laboratory for Particle Physics\n: Switzerland\n\n\n This has to be THE only, generally accepted, method of using common \nphysics lab equipment to find certain answers to all the questions about\nafterlifes, heavens, hells, purgatory, gods etc. Krillean photography\nwill probably be ignored as insignificant compared to these larger\neternal verities. Publishing your results could be a bit of a problem,\nthough.", " >Now let me get this straight. After a nice, long rant about\n >how people need to take personal responsibility for their\n >economic and social lives, all of a sudden 1960's radicals\n >(such as me, I guess) are responsible for poor people's\n >lifestyles? Tell me how that works--or do you think that poor\n >people are just too dumb to think for themselves?\n >\n >There are many reasons for the disintegration of the family\n >and support systems in general among this nation's poor.\n >Somehow I don't think Murphy Brown--or Janis Joplin--is at\n >the top of any sane person's list.\n >\n >You want to go after my generation's vaunted cultural\n >revolution for a lasting change for the worse, try so-called\n >\"relevant\" or \"values\" education. Hey, it seemed like a good\n >idea at the time. How were we to know you needed a real\n >education first--I mean, we took that for granted.\n\nThe 1960's generation were the most spoiled and irresponsible.\n\nThe Depression had create mothers and fathers that were determined that their\nkids would not want for anything -- going overboard and creating a nation of\nbrats.\n\nConsider the contrast between two famous events in July of 1969.\n\nApollo 11 and Woodstock.\n\nWhich group had large numbers of people that could not feed themselves and\nreverted to the cultural level of primitives (defecation in public etc.).\n\nAnd which group assembled, took care of itself, and dispersed with no damage,\nno deaths, no large numbers of drug problems ....\n\n-- \nThere are actually people that STILL believe Love Canal was some kind of\nenvironmental disaster. Weird, eh?", "\n\n\nI pointed out the secession movement in Aceh which has also been\nbrutally dealt with in the past by the Indonesian government. The\nharshly with all secessionist movements.\nthe evidence, it appears to me that the Indonesian government has dealt\nvery harshly with all secession movements.\n\nI know that the head of the Indonesian armed forces for a very long time\nwas Benny Murdani -- a \"Christian\". Indonesia has been heavy handed in\nEast Timor for a long time , even when Murdani was head of the armed\nforces. The people who make up the\nIndonesian government are in general motivated by national interests,\nnot religious ones.", "Reasonable doubt dates back to Human Rights. We are now in the time of\nCivil Rights. Civil Rights are issued by the State with whatever strings\nattached they choose as the Grantor of said rights. And if that means that \nverdicts are determined by the needs of the state rather than by guilt or \ninnocence in a traditional sense, so be it. Being subjective rather than \nobjective may make it harder to anticipate what is right, and you may be \nsacrificed for being wrong inadvertantly once in a while, but that really is a \nsmall price to pay for the common good don't you think?\n\n", "\n\nNo, you don't understand. I said that I don't think people can discuss\nthe subjective merits of religion objectively. This should be obvious.\nPeople here have said that everyone would be better off without religion,\nbut this almost certainly isn't true.\n\n\nBut, guns and axes are tools, both of which have been used for murder.\nShould both be taken away? That is to say, I don't think motto misuse\nwarrants its removal. At least not in this case.", "\nI have never said that only humans are the only beings which are\nsufficiently sentient to have intentions. In fact, I have explicitly\nsaid that I am perfectly happy to consider that some animals *are*\ncapable of forming intentions.\n\nWhat I am objecting to is considering programmed or instinctive\nbehaviour to have moral significance, since, it seems to me, \nsuch behaviour does *not* involve intention.\n\n\nThat's not the point. The point is whether the implementor thinks\n*at all*. The issue is not whether thinking produces opinion A\nor opinion B, but whether thinking takes place, period.\n\n\nSince humans are part of nature, are not all human actions \"natural\".\n\nOr perhaps you're going to throw in a definition of \"natural\" that\nwill allow us to describe some actions as \"natural\" and some as \n\"not natural\". If so, what is the definition?\n\n\n\nSure they do, as multiple posters have show you. Sharks, for example,\neat wounded sharks. I've personally seen cats eat their newborn.\n\nAre you in some kind of denial? People give you example after example,\nand you go off the air for a week, and then pop up claiming that it \nnever happened. It's very strange.\n\n\nSee what I mean. Here we go again. What do we have to do: write\nup a tailor-made FAQ just for Mr Schneider?", "\nThis is the case in Britain, according to the head of the computer crime\nunit here when I interviewed him a couple of months ago.\n\nwg", ": write over the \"Licensed to:\", but you can't change the name underneth it. I\n: think if you wish to change this you would have to be a pirate, and we're not\n: going to promote that here.\n: \n\nNot so! My computer was supplied with my name in an 'interesting'\nmix of upper and lower case, and my workplace mis-typed. I'm\ngetting fed up with being 'CMyearslEY' at 'KEEL UNVERSITY'!\nIt took me 20 (!) phone calls to the supplier to get the computer\nworking at all. I really can't face tackling them again....\n", "............................................................................\n CRYPTO '93 - Conference Announcement & Final Call for Papers\n............................................................................\n\nThe Thirteenth Annual CRYPTO Conference, sponsored by the International \nAssociation for Cryptologic Research (IACR), in cooperation with \nthe IEEE Computer Society Technical Committee on Security and Privacy, \nthe Computer Science Department of the University of California, Santa \nBarbara, and Bell-Northern Research (a subsidiary of Northern Telecom), \nwill be held on the campus of the University of California, Santa Barbara, \non August 22-26, 1993. Original research papers and technical expository talks \nare solicited on all practical and theoretical aspects of cryptology. It is \nanticipated that some talks may also be presented by special invitation of the \nProgram Committee.\n------------------------- \nINSTRUCTIONS FOR AUTHORS: Authors are requested to send 12 copies of a \ndetailed abstract (not a full paper) by April 26, 1993, to the Program Chair \nat the address given below. A limit of 10 pages of 12pt type (not counting \nthe bibliography or the title page) is placed on all submissions. Submissions \nmust arrive on time or be postmarked no later than April 21, 1993 and sent by \nairmail in order to receive consideration by the Program Committee. It is \nrequired that submissions start with a succinct statement of the problem \naddressed, the solution proposed, and its significance to cryptology, \nappropriate for a non-specialist reader. Technical development directed to \nthe specialist should follow as needed.\n------------------------- \nAbstracts that have been submitted to other conferences that have proceedings \nare NOT eligible for submission.\n\nSubmissions MUST BE ANONYMOUS. This means that names and affiliations of \nauthors should only appear on the title page of the submission; it should \nbe possible to remove this page and send the papers to Program Committee \nmembers. A Latex style file that produces output in this format is available by email from the Program Chair.\n\nAuthors will be informed of acceptance or rejection in a letter mailed on \nor before June 21, 1993. A compilation of all accepted abstracts will be \navailable at the conference in the form of pre-proceedings. Authors of \naccepted abstracts will be allowed to submit revised versions for the \npre-proceedings. A revised abstract should contain only minor changes and \ncorrections to the originally submitted abstract. All revised abstracts must \nbe received by the Program Chair by July 16, 1993. THE 10 PAGE LIMIT WILL BE \nSTRICTLY ENFORCED for the pre-proceedings.\n\nComplete conference proceedings are expected to be published in Springer-\nVerlag's Lecture Notes in Computer Science series at a later date, pending \nnegotiation.\n------------------------- \nThe Program Committee consists of \n\n D. Stinson (Chair, Nebraska) \n M. Bellare (IBM T. J. Watson) E. Biham (Technion, Israel)\n E. Brickell (Sandia National Labs) J. Feigenbaum (AT&T Bell Labs)\n R. Impagliazzo (UCSD) A. Odlyzko (AT&T Bell Labs)\n T. Okamoto (NTT, Japan) B. Pfitzmann (Hildesheim, Germany)\n R. Rueppel (R3, Switzerland) S. Vanstone (Waterloo, Canada)\n------------------------- \nSend submissions to the Program Chair: \n\nDouglas R. Stinson, Crypto '93 \nComputer Science and Engineering Department \n115 Ferguson Hall, University of Nebraska \nLincoln, NE 68588-0115 USA \nTelephone: (402)-472-7791 \nFax: (402)-472-7767 \nInternet: stinson@bibd.unl.edu \n\nFor other information, contact the General Chair: \n\nPaul C. Van Oorschot, Crypto '93 \nBell-Northern Research (MAIL STOP 000) \n3500 Carling Ave. \nNepean, Ontario K2H 8E9 Canada \nTelephone: (613)-763-4199 \nFax: (613)-763-2626 \nInternet: crypto93@bnr.ca\n\n............................................................................\n CRYPTO '93 - General Information (August 22 - 26, 1993)\n............................................................................\n\nTHE PROGRAM: Crypto'93 is the thirteenth in a series of workshops on \ncryptology held at Santa Barbara, and is sponsored by the International \nAssociation for Cryptologic Research, in cooperation with the IEEE \nComputer Society Technical Committee on Security and Privacy, the Computer \nScience Department of the University of California, Santa Barbara, and \nBell-Northern Research (a subsidiary of Northern Telecom). The program \nfor the workshop will cover all aspects of cryptology. Extended abstracts of \nthe papers presented at the conference will be distributed to all attendees \nat the conference, and formal proceedings will be published at a later date.\n\nIn addition to the regular program of papers selected or invited by the \nprogram committee, there will be a rump session on Tuesday evening for \ninformal presentations. Facilities will also be provided for attendees to \ndemonstrate hardware, software and other items of cryptographic interest. \nIf you wish to demonstrate such items, you are urged to contact the General \nChair so that your needs will be attended to. The social program will include \nhosted cocktail parties on Sunday and Monday. In addition, there will be a \nbeach barbecue on Wednesday evening. The price of the barbecue is included \nin the room and board charge, and extra tickets may be purchased.\n\nABOUT THE CONFERENCE FACILITIES: The workshop will be held on the campus of \nthe University of California, Santa Barbara. The campus is located adjacent \nto the Santa Barbara airport and the Pacific Ocean. Accommodations are \navailable in the university dormitories at relatively low cost for conference \nparticipants. Children under the age of 13 are not allowed to stay in the \ndormitories, so those bringing small children will need to make separate \narrangements in one of several nearby hotels. More information on hotels is \nenclosed. Parking on campus is available at no cost to the participants. \nHowever, participants must indicate on the registration form if they desire \na parking permit.\n\nTRAVEL INFORMATION: The campus is located approximately 2 miles from the \nSanta Barbara airport, which is served by several airlines, including \nAmerican, America West, Delta, United, and US Air. Free shuttle bus service \nwill be provided between the Santa Barbara airport and the campus on Sunday \nand Thursday afternoons. All major rental car agencies are also represented \nin Santa Barbara, and AMTRAK has rail connections to San Francisco from the \nnorth and Los Angeles from the south. Santa Barbara is approximately 100 miles \nnorth of Los Angeles airport, and 350 miles south of San Francisco.\n\nREGISTRATION: Participation is invited by interested parties, but attendance \nat the workshop is limited, and pre-registration is strongly advised. Late \nregistrations, subject to a late registration fee, may be accepted if space \nis available, but there are NO GUARANTEES. To register, fill out the attached \nregistration form and return to the address on the form along with payment in \nfull before July 9, 1993. Campus accommodations will be available on a first \ncome, first serve basis for attendees who register by July 9, 1993. The \nconference fees include participation in the program and all social functions, \nas well as membership to the IACR and a subscription to the Journal of \nCryptology. The room and board charges include dormitory lodging and meals \nare available to those unable to obtain funding. Applications for stipends \nshould be sent to the General Chair before June 4, 1993.\n\n............................................................................\n CRYPTO '93 - CRYPTO '93 Registration Form \n............................................................................\n REGISTRATION DEADLINE: July 9, 1993\n\nLast Name: _____________________________________________\n\nFirst Name: _____________________________________________ Sex: (M)__ (F)__\n\nAffiliation: _______________________________________________________________ \n\nMailing Address: __________________________________________________________\n\n __________________________________________________________\n\n __________________________________________________________\n\n ___________________________________________________________\n\nPhone: __________________________________ FAX: ___________________________ \n\nElectronic Mail: __________________________________________________________ \n\nPayment of the conference fee entitles you to membership in the International \nAssociation for Cryptologic Research for one year at no extra charge, \nincluding a subscription to the Journal of Cryptology, published by Springer-\nVerlag, at no extra charge. Do you wish to be an IACR member? YES__ NO__\n\nThe conference fee also includes the conference proceedings when they become \navailable, containing final versions of conference papers. The book of \nextended abstracts distributed at the conference will contain only shortened \npreliminary versions of these papers (maximum 10 pages).\n\nConference fee: Regular ($280) US$ _______\n Attended Eurocrypt'93, Norway ($230) _______\n Full time student ($190) _______ \n deduct $50 if you do not wish proceedings _______\n Total conference fee: US$_______\n\nRoom and Board (4 nights): Smoking ___ Non-smoking ___\n Single room ($275 per person) _______\n Double room ($225 per person) _______\n Roommate's name: ____________________________________\n\nExtra barbecue tickets ($20 each; one is included in room and board) _______ \n$40 late fee for registration after July 9; \n REGISTRATION NOT GUARANTEED AFTER JULY 9 _______\n\nTotal funds enclosed (U.S. dollars): US$ _______\n\nPayment must be by check PAYABLE IN U.S. FUNDS, by money order IN U.S. FUNDS, \nor by U.S. BANK DRAFT, payable to: CRYPTO'93. Payment should be mailed to the \nGeneral Chair:\n Paul C. Van Oorschot, CRYPTO'93 \n Bell-Northern Research (MAIL STOP 000)\n 3500 Carling Ave.\n Nepean, Ontario K2H 8E9 Canada \n\n............................................................................\n CRYPTO '93 - Hotel Information\n............................................................................\n\nFor those who choose not to stay in the dormitories, the following is a \npartial list of hotels in the area. Those who choose to stay off campus are \nresponsible for making their own reservations, and early reservations are \nadvised since August is a popular season in Santa Barbara. Note that Goleta \nis closer to UCSB than Santa Barbara, but that a car will probably be \nrequired to travel between any hotel and the campus. All prices are subject \nto change; prices should be confirmed by calling the individual hotels \ndirectly. However, mention CRYPTO'93 when you are making your reservation and \nin several of the hotels listed you will be eligible for the university rate \nwhich can be significantly less than the normal rates. We are not able to \nblock rooms in these hotels, so please make reservations as early as \npossible. The quality of the hotels range from rather expensive beach-front \nresorts to basic inexpensive accommodations. For further information, try \ncontacting the Santa Barbara Convention and Visitors Center, (805)-966-9222. \n\nSouth Coast Inn: 5620 Calle Real, Goleta, CA 93117. Regular rates: Single $89, \nDouble $94; call for University rates. Contact Murrill Forrester at \n(805)-967-3200 or toll-free at (800)-350-3614.\n\nCathedral Oaks Lodge: 4770 Calle Real, Santa Barbara, 93110. Single rates not \navailable, Double rates start at $84 including breakfast; no University rates. \nCall Tom Patton at (805)-964-3511 or toll-free at (800)-654-1965.\n\nMotel 6: 5897 Calle Real, Goleta, CA 93117. Single $33.95, Double $39.95, \nno University rate available. Call (505)-891-6161.\n\nThe Sandman Inn: 3714 State St., Santa Barbara, CA 93105. Regular rates: \nSingle or Double $84, $94 for king-size, University rate $65. Call Jean \nIngerle at (805)-687-2468 or toll-free at (800)-350-8174.\n\nMiramar Hotel (Beachfront): 3 miles south of Santa Barbara on U.S. 101 at \nSan Ysidro turnoff. Regular rates: $70-$135. No University rates. Call \n(805)-969-2203. \n\nPepper Tree Inn: 3850 State St., Santa Barbara, CA 93105. Regular rates: \n$106-$112 for two people, University rates $96-$102 for two people. Call \nChristopher Oliphant at (805)-687-5511 or toll-free at (800)-338-0030.\n\nEncina Lodge: 220 Bath Street, Santa Barbara, CA 93105. Regular rates \n$106-$108 for two people, no University rates. Call Carol Wolford at \n(805)-682-7550 or toll-free at (800)-526-2282.\n\nQuality Suites: 5500 Hollister Ave, Santa Barbara, CA 93111 (close to campus). \nRegular rates: Single $125, Double $145, University rates $99 double \n(must mention you are attending a UCSB program). Call Michael Ensign at \n(805)-683-6722.\n\nUpham Hotel (bed-and-breakfast): 1404 De La Vina Road, Santa Barbara, \nCA 93101. University rate $85 (mention you are from Crypto). Call Sheila \nDonegan at (805)-962-0058.\n............................................................................\n\n\n\n", "\nI disagree with your claim that Jews were not evangelistic (except in\nthe narrow sense of the word). Jewish proselytism was widespread.\nThere are numerous accounts of Jewish proselytism, both in the New\nTestament and in Roman and Greek documents of the day.", "\nThe problem with this view is that the topic under discussion in this\npassage *is* marriages that were performed on earth. Jesus' words\nseem to me to indicate that He regards His response as the answer to their\nquestion about which earthly marriage would be valid after the resurrection.\nThis being the case, the most straightforward interpretation, in my\nopinion, is that marriage does not exist in the next life because those\nwho are raised are of a different nature than what we are now. Other-\nwise, why would Jesus offer \"but are like the angels in heaven\" as a\ncontrast to the idea of the resurrected marrying and being given in\nmarriage? We do not have angel-like natures now, but someday we shall,\nand when we do, our earthly marriages will be irrelevant. Or at least,\nthat's what I think Jesus is saying about the post-resurrection validity of \nmarriages performed on earth. Your mileage may vary. :)", "\nLeonard, I'll give you an example of this....\n\nMy father recently bought a business, the business price was 150,000 pounds\nand my father approached the people in the community for help, he raised\n60,000 pounds in interest free loans from friends and relatives and \nMuslims he knew, 50,000 had cash and the rest he got a business loan, after\npaying off the Muslim lenders many of them helped him with further loans\nto help him clear the bank debt and save him from further intrest, this\nis an example of a Muslim community helping one another, why did they help\nbecause of their common identity as Muslims. In turn my father has helped\nwith people buying houses to minimise the amount of intrest they pay \nand in some cases buy houses intrest free with the help of those more\nfortunate in the community. \n\nThe fact is Leonard it DOES work without a fluffy bunny in sight!\niThat is the beauty of Islam.\n\nMas\n\n", "Looking to save money? I am your man. I will mail you \n$5 in food coupons for only$2.50. Or you will get twice the dollar amount\nof coupons. So mail $15 and get $30 dollars in coupons. Sounds like a great\ndeal well it is. Send SASE to 766 S.Elizabeth St. Salt Lake City, Utah 84102\nenclose money in form of a money order. Personally, I would not trust a person\nto send coupons after money is sent. Well, let me earn your trust. Send\n$1 dollar, and I'll send you your $2 in store coupons. \nThen we'll talk more\ne-mail enquiries to yb025@uafhp.uark.edu", "\n\nIf you were omniscient, you'd know who exactly did what, and with what\npurpose in mind. Then, with a particular goal in mind, you sould be\nable to methodically judge whether or not this action was in accordance\nwith the general goal.\n\n\nIn an objective system, there are known goals. Then, actions are judged\nas either being compatible with these goals, or not. Simple. The problem\nwith most systems in current practice is that the goals differ. That is,\nthe goals of each society are different.\n\nNote that an objective system is not necessarily an inherent one.\n\n\nI've said it many, many times.\n\n\nWhich part do you have a problem with?\n\n\nBut, we can enslave the animals, right? But just not kill them? Or\nare you a vegetarian for health reasons?\n\n\nNo. I fail to see how my *personal* views are relevant, anyway.\n\n\nOf course not. It seems perfectly valid to kill members of other species\nfor food. It might be nice, though, if the other animals were not made\nto suffer. For instance, a cow in a field lives out its life just about\nthe same way it would in the wild. They seem happy enough. However,\nthe veal youngsters aren't treated very well.\n\n\nI don't know. What is the goal of this particular system? There is no\ninherent system.\n\n\nNope. Again, it seems okay to kill other species for food.", "Dear netters:\n\nI have been scanning this news group for a while but has not found a FAQ.\nCould someone enlight me where to find the FAQ if there is a one. Also,\ncould someone recommend a few good books about encription and decription,\nabout patent information, goverment regulation on this science/technology.\nI will appreciate any of your help very much.\n\nSincerely", "Desiree Bradley (Desiree_Bradley@mindlink.bc.ca) asked us whether we\nshould think of the Serbs as doing God's work in Bosnia. I've\nrefrained from posting, in hope that someone who is more familiar with\nthe OT than I would answer. But at this point I feel I have to say\nsomething.\n\nMany things about this posting bother me. I know of not the slightest\nsuggestion in the NT that Christians should use force to propagate the\nGospel, and the idea that we should not be concerned about the death\nof Moslems violates the heart of the Gospel. Christ died to break\ndown these distinctions. In him there is neither Jew nor Greek, there\nis neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female. If\nMoslems do not know him, we may preach to them, but we don't kill\nthem. Furthermore, the attack is between states, not religions.\nThere are Christians being attacked as well. One of the towns under\nattack is one of the few places where Christians and Moslems are\nliving together peacefully.\n\nThe precedents being suggested are from the OT. There are in fact two\ndifferent things being alluded to. The first is from the entry into\nCanaan. For that to be a parallel, we would need for God to have\npromised this land through a prophet. And we would need the war to be\na holy war. There were tight constraints on behavior in those\nattacks. Any violations were likely to cause the Israelites to be\ndefeated. Rape would not have been tolerated. While the accounts in\nJoshua emphasize towns that were totally destroyed, note that it was\npossible for a town to make peace with the Israelites, and that once\nthat was done -- even when deception was involved -- they were\nexpected to honor it. In contrast, there have been many violations of\nagreement in this incident. I see no evidence that God has granted\nBosnia to the Serbs as a promised land, and if he had, their behavior\nwould have disqualified this from being a holy war.\n\nThe other OT parallel is from later, when Israel was defeated by\nAssyria and Babylonia. The prophets saw this as a judgement on Israel\nfor her sins. Someone asks whether we shouldn't see this as a\njudgement on the Bosnians for their sins. This sounds like a replay\nof the old claim that we shouldn't have doctors or hospitals because\nillness is God's judgement. Yes, even bad things may be used by God\nfor good. That includes actions of bad people. But that doesn't\njustify them. If you read the prophets, you find them very clear that\nin attacking Israel, the Assyrians and Babylonians were acting as\n*unintentional* agents of God. Their intent was to attack God's\npeople, and they would be judged for it. The fact that they were\nactually carrying out God's plan didn't excuse their action.\nFurthermore, we shouldn't conclude from this that all attacks are\njudgements from God. God explicitly interpreted that case, through\nhis prophets. As far as I know, he did not send any prophets to\nBosnia. While I find it hard to see any good in the current fighting,\nI am sure God will eventually make good come out of bad. But that\ndoesn't justify it, and it won't save the people who are doing it from\njudgement.", "\n\nNo. It's called \"not wiping off the apparatus after taking a picture of the\nwhole leaf.\"", "\nSo it was a complete non-sequitur, is that it? How does coming\nup with a derisory deal tell us anything about the existence of\n\"objective\" values.\n\nYou're asking us to accept that the deal you offered would be turned\ndown, and we believe that, not because we appeal to objective values\nbut becasue we know, or think we know, something about people.\n\nAll the people we know exhibit *subjective* values that would lead\nthem to reject a deal of $1 for all of the land in America.\n\nGreat. Now, so what?", "\nWrong.\n\n\nQuite true. And evolution made \"decided\" that homosexuality had a place,\notherwise it would have disappeared quite quickly. There are very few\nanimals which do not exhibit homosexual behavior.\nIt has been here before humans existed, and will be here after the\nhuman race has gone.\n\n\nQuite true. 2000 years of religious idiocy have not changed the nature\nof man. You tried to rid yourselves of us for 2000 years and failed.\n\n", ".\n It should be remembered that all of the first reports came from \n the FBI, and that independent observers, i.e. the press, were not \n allowed to get close and see things for themselves. Official \n communiques tend to be self-serving for the agencies that issue \n them. \n People in general tend to believe first reports, as these get \n the most and the biggest headlines. Corrections are often \n overlooked. \n An example is the FBI report that several of the bodies found \n in the rubble had bullet wounds. The local coroner, who is \n independent of the FBI, has so far found no bullet wounds! ", "\n----------", "\n\n\nBill Conner, meet Bill Conner.", "Lovely arguments. But do we write about historical ownership of any\nplace - Palestine, Pakistan, Cyprus, Aegean Islands (and the oil that\nmay lie beneath them), whatever - for any reason other than\njustification for stomping others?\n\nDOES IT TRULY MATTER whose ancestor lived where 20, 200, or 2000 years\nago? More than how you treat the land and each other?\n\nWho is wise enough to decree that a person's right to life, liberty\nand pursuit of happiness in a particular place depends on accidents of\nbirth? Who can even be sure about the precise tracks of the sperm\nthat birthed the people we wish to despise?\n\nIMHO, the American Indians have it right. We belong to the earth, it\ndoes not belong to us. Failure to understand that is a good way to\ncause lossage all the way around. My guess is that once we trash our\nenvironment sufficiently we shall die along with it - the baby eating\nand killing its mother, then dying for lack of milk.\n\nDeath and disease do not respect national boundaries, not as toxins,\ndisease vectors, lost farmland/wetlands/forest cover/water supplies,\nnor any other way. When we fight over which national group owns which\npiece of turf, we are merely contending for the best vantage point\nfrom which to kill others, \"our\" land and eventually ourselves.\n\nThat is something of which to be proud. Very proud. Makes me glad to\nbe human.\n\n\nI'm not mindlessly rejecting all nationalism. Maybe it's fair to ask\nwhether a recent immigrant deserves a share of the infrastructure that\nall _my_ ancestors (hah!) labored to produce. But it's an artificial\ndistinction: is the recent immigrant, even a refugee, less likely to\ncontribute to the next generation's legacy than anyone else? [In\nhistory the reverse is often the case: recent immigrants strive\nhardest. If nothing else, they fill open eco(l/n)ogic niches.]\n\nThen again, my tribe is infinitely better than your tribe, so I can\nunderstand you all have nothing but plot to knock me off. While I, of\ncourse, will make sure it doesn't happen, even if I must shoot Muslim\ninfants (or bash Jewish ones against the walls of schoolhouses) to do\nso. That'll prove my moral superiority, by golly, as well as the\nrightness of my cause.\n\n\nClearly, there is no higher purpose in life than killing others\nbecause they are not like you. I would never get in the way of such\nfun.\n\nLet's see: \n\tsoc.culture.turkish - Why don't you Turks go back to Lake\n\t\tBaikal where you came from, and leave the land to the\n\t\tGreeks, who stole it fair and square from the\n\t\tScythians?\n\tsoc.culture.pakistan - Why don't you guys redistribute\n\t\tyourselves over India, as God meant for you to do?\n\tsoc.culture.jewish, soc.culture.arabic - we stick together,\n\t\tfight together, die together. We are brothers, and\n\t\tinseparable.\n\ttalk.politics.mideast - oh well, had to be there.\n\nOded\n[Planning on being a Scythian irredentist, as soon as I finish my\npresent assignment.]\n\n\nP.S.:\tI can't get a semi-decent death threat anymore?", "\nI believe that there's a 10 year period from time of death until\na person can be on a commemorative stamp. It was broken once\nfor Lyndon Johnson (I think) but other than that it has held for\nawhile. Of course, we can still start now -- the Elvis stamp\nwas petitioned for ages and things really moved once it got\npast the 10 year anniversary of his death.\n", "These circuits abound in most electronic project books. If you're more\ninclined to buy something, try Radio Shack. I think they still have a\ndevice that is designed to disconnect an answering machine when an\nextension line is lifted. It has LED indicators also. ", "<< \n<<<\n<<\n 250-\n 250-\n 250-\n 250-\n 250-\n 250-\n 250-\n 250-\n 250-\n 250-\n 250 \n quit\n 221 first.org closing connection\n Connection closed.\n\nNote also:\n\n% telnet csmes.ncsl.nist.gov 25\nTrying 129.6.54.2...\nConnected to csmes.ncsl.nist.gov.\nEscape character is '^]'.\n220 csmes.ncsl.nist.gov sendmail 4.1/NIST(rbj/dougm) ready at Sat, 17 Apr 93 23:08:58 EDT\nexpn mgrsplus\n250-\n250-Irene Gilbert \n250-Dennis Branstad \n250-Robert Rosenthal \n250-Gene Troy \n250-\n250-Dennis Steinauer \n250 \n\ntelnet mail-gw.ncsl.nist.gov 25\nTrying 129.6.48.199...\nConnected to mail-gw.ncsl.nist.gov.\nEscape character is '^]'.\n220 mail-gw.ncsl.nist.gov sendmail 4.1/rbj/jck-3 ready at Sat, 17 Apr 93 23:06:50 EDT\nexpn csspab\n250-\n250-\n250-Bill Colvin \n250-\n250-John Kuyers \n250-\n250-\n250-\n250-\n250-\n250-\n250-Eddie Zeitler \n250-Cris Castro \n250 \n\n% telnet st1.ncsl.nist.gov 25\nTrying 129.6.54.91...\nConnected to st1.ncsl.nist.gov.\nEscape character is '^]'.\n220 st1.ncsl.nist.gov SEndMaIl 4.1/NBS-rbj.11 rEadY At Sat, 17 Apr 93 23:13:43 EDT\nexpn smid\n250 Miles Smid \nexpn katzke\n250 Stuart Katzke \nquit\n221 st1.ncsl.nist.gov closing connection\nConnection closed by foreign host.\n\n% telnet ecf.ncsl.nist.gov 25\nTrying 129.6.48.2...\nConnected to ecf.ncsl.nist.gov.\nEscape character is '^]'.\n220 ECF.NCSL.NIST.GOV TGV/MultiNet SMTP service ready.\nexpn burrows\n250 Burrows, James \nexpn mcnulty\n250 McNulty, Lynn \nquit\n221 ECF.NCSL.NIST.GOV TGV/MultiNet SMTP service complete.\n\n% whois -h rs.internic.net first.org\nNational Institute of Standards and Technology (FIRST-DOM)\n 225/A216\n \t NIST\n \t GAITHERSBURG, MD 20899\n\n Domain Name: FIRST.ORG\n\n Administrative Contact:\n Wack, John P. (JPW18) WACK@ENH.NIST.GOV\n (301) 975-3411 (FTS) 879-3411\n Technical Contact, Zone Contact:\n Hunt, Craig W. (CWH3) Hunt@ENH.NIST.GOV\n (301) 975-3827 (FTS) 879-3827\n\n Record last updated on 17-Dec-91.\n\n Domain servers in listed order:\n\n DOVE.NIST.GOV\t\t129.6.16.2\n AMES.ARC.NASA.GOV\t\t128.102.18.3\n\n\nThe InterNIC Registration Services Host ONLY contains Internet Information\n(Networks, ASN's, Domains, and POC's).\nPlease use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.", "\nAnd has been rather thoroughly demolished as myth by Robert Scott Root-\nBernstein. See his book, \"Discovering\". Ring structures for benzene\nhad been proposed before Kekule', after him, and at the same time as him.\nThe current models do not resemble Kekule's. Many of the predecessors\nof Kekule's structure resemble the modern model more.\n\nI don't think \"extra-scientific\" is a very useful phrase in a discussion\nof the boundaries of science, except as a proposed definiens. Extra-rational\nis a better phrase. In fact, there are quite a number of well-known cases\nof extra-rational considerations driving science in a useful direction.\n\nFor example, Pasteur discovered that racemic acid was a mixture of\nenantiomers (the origin of stereochemistry) partly because he liked a\nfriend's crank theory of chemical action. The friend was wrong, but\nPasteur's discovery stood. A prior investigator (Mitscherlich), looking\nat the same phenomenon, had missed a crucial detail; presumably because he\nlacked Pasteur's motivation to find something that distinguished racemic\nacid from tartaric (now we say: d-tartaric) acid.\n\nAgain, Pasteur discovered the differential fermentation of enantiomers\n(tartaric acid again) not because of some rational conviction, but because\nhe was trying to produce yeast that lived on l-tartaric acid. His notebooks\ncontained fantasies of becoming the \"Newton of mirror-image life,\" which\nhe never admitted publically.\n\nPerhaps the best example is the discovery that DNA carries genes. Avery\nstarted this work because of one of his students, and ardent Anglophile\nand Francophobe Canadian, defended Fred Griffiths' discoveries in mice.\nMost of Griffiths' critics were French, which decided the issue for the\nstudent. Avery told him to replicate Griffiths' work in vitro, which the\nstudent eventually did, whereupon Avery was convinced and started the\nresearch program which, in 15 or so years, produced the famous discovery\n(Avery, MacLeod, and McCarty, JEM 1944).", "deleted", "Poor person's Kirlian Photography (try this at home)", " vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv VVVVVVVVVV\n\nGetting close there!", "[ . . .]\n\nI am a relativist who would like to answer your question, but the way you\nphrase the question makes it unanswerable. The concepts of \"right\"\nand \"wrong\" (or \"correct/incorrect\" or \"true/false\") belong to the\ndomain of epistemological rather than moral questions. It makes no\nsense to ask if a moral position is right or wrong, although it is\nlegitimate to ask if it is good (or better than another position).\n\nLet me illustrate this point by looking at the psychological derivatives\nof epistemology and ethics: perception and motivation, respectively.\nOne can certainly ask if a percept is \"right\" (correct, true,\nveridical) or \"wrong\" (incorrect, false, illusory). But it makes little\nsense to ask if a motive is true or false. On the other hand, it is\nstrange to ask whether a percept is morally good or evil, but one can\ncertainly ask that question about motives.\n\nTherefore, your suggested answers (a)-(c) simply can't be considered:\nthey assume you can judge the correctness of a moral judgment.\n\nNow the problem with (d) is that it is double-barrelled: I agree with\nthe first part (that the \"rightness\" of a moral position is a\nmeaningless question), for the reasons stated above. But that is\nirrelevant to the alleged implication (not an implication at all) that\none cannot feel peace is better than war. I certainly can make\nvalue judgments (bad, better, best) without asserting the \"correctness\"\nof the position.\n\nSorry for the lengthy dismissal of (a)-(d). My short (e) answer is\nthat when two individuals grotesquely disagree on a moral issue,\nneither is right (correct) or wrong (incorrect). They simply hold\ndifferent moral values (feelings).", "\n\n\n\n\nOkay... I argued this thoroughly about 3-4 weeks ago. Men and women are\ndifferent ... physically, physiologically, and psychologically. Much\nrecent evidence for this statement is present in the book \"Brainsex\" by\nAnne Moir and David Jessel. I recommend you find a copy and read it.\nTheir book is an overview of recent scientific research on this topic\nand is well referenced. \n\nNow, if women and men are different in some ways, the law can only\nadequately take into account their needs in these areas where they are\ndifferent by also taking into account the ways in which men and women\nare different. Maternity leave is an example of this -- it takes into\naccount that women get pregnant. It does not give women the same rules\nit would give to men, because to treat women like it treats men in this\ninstance would be unjust. This is just simply an obvious example of\nwhere men and women are intrinsically different!!!!!\n\nNow, people make the _naive_ argument that sexism = oppression.\nHowever, maternity leave is sexist because MEN DO NOT GET PREGNANT. \nMen do not have the same access to leave that women do (not to the same\nextent or degree), and therefore IT IS SEXIST. No matter however much a\nman _wants_ to get pregnant and have maternity leave, HE NEVER CAN. And\ntherefore the law IS SEXIST. No man can have access to maternity leave,\nNO MATTER HOW HARD HE TRIES TO GET PREGNANT. I hope this is clear.\n\nMaternity leave is an example where a sexist law is just, because the\nsexism here just reflects the \"sexism\" of nature in making men and women\ndifferent. There are many other differences between men and women which\nare far more subtle than pregnancy, and to find out more of these I\nrecommend you have a look at the book \"Brainsex\".\n\nYour point that perhaps some day men can also be pregnant is fallacious.\nIf men can one day become pregnant it will be by having biologically\nbecome women! To have a womb and the other factors required for\npregnancy is usually wrapped up in the definition of what a woman is --\nso your argument, when it is examined, is seen to be fallacious. You\nare saying that men can have the sexist maternity leave privilege that \nwomen can have if they also become women -- which actually just supports\nmy statement that maternity leave is sexist.\n\n\nThere is no official priesthood in Islam -- much of this function is\ntaken by Islamic scholars. There are female Islamic scholars and\nfemale Islamic scholars have always existed in Islam. An example from\nearly Islamic history is the Prophet's widow, Aisha, who was recognized\nin her time and is recognized in our time as an Islamic scholar.\n\n\nYou have no evidence for your blanket statement about all religions, and\nI dispute it. I could go on and on about women in Islam, etc., but I\nrecently reposted something here under the heading \"Islam and Women\" --\nif it is still at your news-site I suggest you read it. It is reposted\nfrom soc.religion.islam, so if it has disappeared from alt.atheism it\nstill might be in soc.religion.islam (I forgot what its original title\nwas though). I will email it to you if you like. \n\n\nYour statement that \"other religions are no different\" is, I think, a\nstatement based simply on lack of knowledge about religions other than\nChristianity and perhaps Judaism.\n\n\nAisha, who I mentioned earlier, was not only an Islamic scholar but also\nwas, at one stage, a military leader.\n\n\nThe Prophet's first wife, who died just before the \"Hijra\" (the\nProphet's journey from Mecca to Medina) was a successful businesswoman.\n\nLucio, you cannot make a strong case for your viewpoint when your\nviewpoint is based on ignorance about world religions.", "\nnsmca> So some of my ideas are a bit odd, off the wall and such, but\nnsmca> so was Wilbur and Orville Wright, and quite a few others..\n\nThis is a common misconception. There was nothing \"off the wall\"\nabout the Wright Brothers. They were in correspondance with a number\nof other experimenters (Octave Chanute, Lillienthal, etc), they flew\nmodels, they had a wind tunnel. In short, they were quite mainstream\nand were not regarded as odd or eccentric by the community.\n\nI suggest you read The Bishop's Boys or the biography by Harry Gates?\nCombs? (I can never remember which it is--the guy that had the FBOs\nand owned Learjet for a while). These are both in print and easily\nobtainable. The Bishop's Boys is in trade paperback, even.\n\nEven better would be the multi-volume set of the Wrights' writings,\nbut this is out of print, rare, and hideously expensive.\n\n\n", "I just received some new information regarding the issue of \nBCCI and whether it is an Islamic bank etc.\n\nI am now about to post it under the heading\n\n\"BCCI\".\n\nLook for it there!", " | \n | > Mary at that time appeared to a girl named Bernadette at \n | > Lourdes. She referred to herself as the Immaculate Conception.\n | > Since a nine year old would have no way of knowing about the \n | > doctrine, the apparition was deemed to be true and it sealed \n | > the case for the doctrine. \n |Bernadette was 14 years old when she had her visions, in 1858, \n |four years after the dogma had been officially proclaimed by the \n |Pope. \n | \n | Yours, \n | James Kiefer\n\nI forgot exactly what her age was but I remember clearly\nthat she was born in a family of poverty and she did not\nhave any education, whatsoever, at the age of the apparitions.\nShe suffered from asthma at that age and she and her family were\nliving in an abandoned prison cell of some sort.\n\nShe had to ask the 'Lady' several times in her apparitions about \nwhat her name was since her confessor priest asked her to do so. \nFor several instances, the priest did not get an answer since \nBernadette did not receive any. One time, after several apparitions\npassed, The Lady finally said, \"I am the Immaculate Conception\".\nSo, Bernadette, was so happy and repeated these words over and\nover in her mind so as not to forget it before she told the\npriest who was asking. So, when she told the priest, the\npriest was shocked and asked Bernadette, \"Do you know what\nyou are talking about?\". Bernadette did not know what exactly\nit meant but she was just too happy to have the answer for\nthe priest. The priest continued with, \"How did you remember\nthis if you do not know?\". Bernadette answered honestly that\nshe had to repeat it over and over in her mind while on her\nway to the priest...\n\nThe priest knew about the dogma being four years old then.\nBut Bernadette did not know and yet she had the answer which\nthe priest finally observed and took as proof of an authentic\npersonal revelation of Our Lady to Bernadette.\n\n(Note: This Lady of Lourdes shrine has a spring of water which\nour lady requested Bernadette to dig up herself with her\nbare hands in front of pilgrims. At the start little\nwater flowed but after several years there is more water \nflowing.)", "\nYes, Fred, my heart and prayers go out to the mother and others who have \nbeen victims of these and other senseless crimes.\n\n\nHowever, I feel that you have missed the point of the previous postings (see \ntop). Your statement of 'responsibility' is felt as an attack towards the \nmembers of this group. You are attempting to make the members of this group\nbe REQUIRED to answer. The only people who should make a statement are people\nwho have experienced the problem and found a workable solution.\n\n\nMany people are interested, but have no input. I will restate that your last\nsentence here is seen as an attack on the members of this group. If people have\ninput, they will give it. If they do not, YOU should not make them feel \ncompelled (sp?) to respond. \n\nIf you wish to continue this conversation, PLEASE send e-mail. DO NOT repost or\nattempt to bait me, I will not make another post (and may I make the same a\nsuggestion to other group members) on this matter.\n\n\n\nBTW, your welcome.\n-- ", "\nnobody seems to have noticed that the clipper chip *must* have been\nunder development for considerably longer than the 3 months that\nclinton has been president. this is not something that choosing\nchoosing bush over clinton would have changed in the slightest; it has\nbeen in the works for some time.\n\n", "\n\tThe American press routinely uses the word fundamentalist to\nrefer to both Christians and Jews. Christian fundementalists are\noften refered to in the context of anti-abortion protests. The\nAmerican media also uses fundamentalist to refer to Jews who live in\nJudea, Samaria or Gaza, and to any Jew who follows the torah.\n\nAdam\nAdam Shostack \t\t\t\t adam@das.harvard.edu", "# #Slavery makes economic sense (it NEVER makes MORAL sense) when human\n# #muscle power is an economically valuable asset. Agricultural slavery might\n# #have lasted right up to the first mechanical cotton reaper, but no\n# #further; reapers are cheaper than slaves, and don't have to be fed during\n# #the winter. \n# \n# This argument makes a several fundamental errors. First \"agricultural\"\n# slavery was not limited to production of cotton. In the American south\n# slave labor was used extensively to grow tobacco, sugar, and rice, all\n# of which remained labor intensive enterprises well into the 20th century.\n\nAnd of course, in states like Kentucky and Virginia, not well-suited to\nlarge-scale plantations, slave labor was used to make one of the most \nvaluable agricultural products of all: more slaves. In some ways, this\ntreatment of humans beings as breeding livestock is the most horrifying\naspect of American slavery.\n\n# Second, although mechanization of cotton production could be expected to\n# reduce the demands for labor eventually, it was only in the 1940's \n# the mechanization of cotton production in the South largely eliminated\n# the labor intensive character of the operation, long after the \"first\n# mechanical cotton reaper\" was invented.\n\nThis is an interesting question. Steinbeck's _Grapes of Wrath_\n(published in the 1930s), uses agricultural mechanization of cotton\nproduction in Arkansas as the cause of the Joad family being evicted\nfrom the land. How many years were involved in the mechanization of\ncotton farming? When did this first appear?\n\n# #Ken Mitchell | The powers not delegated to the United States by the\n# Steve Hendricks | DOMAIN: steveh@thor.ISC-BR.COM ", "Wow, I hadn't realized how VENOMOUS this was getting! Be careful here...the\nproblem isn't the rich but the values and the systems that make the rich\nrich. Things are designed in such a way that in order to go with the system\nand make money, everything ELSE we care about goes to shit. I have to\nconstantly remind myself that the goal of human society is not to make\nmoney. Money doesn't make us happy; it just prevents certain things making\nus more unhappy.\n\nTherefore, don't shoot the rich. Shoot the conservatives!\n\nDrewcifer", "\nI think you mean ARPA; AARP is the American Association of Retired Persons,\nand I seriously doubt that they'd want young whippersnappers building\nanything on their backbones, what with de-calcification and all :-)\n\n\nThe general convention is that if it doesn't have a country tag on it, it's\na US site. That includes:\n\t.com\tcommercial \n\t.edu\teducational \n\t.mil\tUS Military sites \n\t.gov\tUS Gov't non-military sites (eg NASA sites)\n\t.org\tanyone who is \"none of the above\"\nThere are sites with such tags that are non-US sites, but they will have\nthe country extension (eg xxxx.edu.au is an extension I saw today).\nUS sites can also use the .us extension, but, as Mr. Smith pointed \nout, the Internet was built on the ARPANet backbone, and they default\nto US sites if there's no country code.\n\nI would suggest that anyone who didn't know this (or wants to know\nmore about it on a non-system-administrative level) check out\nthe book _The_Whole_Internet_User's_Guide_and_Catalog_ by Ed Krol.\n(or is it Catalog and User's Guide? I can never remember, and my copy\nis my desk at home...). It's a very good not-necessarily-technical\nguide to the Internet and the various utilities that lurk on it (including\nUSENET). I don't think it's part of the Nutshell series, but it is\npublished by O'Reilly and Associates.\n\nThis should go to one of the news.* newsgroups, but damned if I\ncan figure out which one.... :-)\n\n\t\t\t\tJames", "I am pleased to announce that a *revised version* of _The Easy-to-Read Book\nof Mormon_ (former title: _Mormon's Book_) by Lynn Matthews Anderson is now\navailable through anonymous ftp (see information below). In addition to the\nchange in title, the revised ETR BOM has been shortened by several pages\n(eliminating many extraneous \"that's\" and \"of's\"), and many (minor) errors\nhave been corrected. This release includes a simplified Joseph Smith Story,\ntestimonies of the three and eight witnesses, and a \"Words-to-Know\"\nglossary.\n\nAs with the previous announcement, readers are reminded that this is a\nnot-for-profit endeavor. This is a copyrighted work, but people are welcome\nto make *verbatim* copies for personal use. People can recuperate the\nactual costs of printing (paper, copy center charges), but may not charge\nanything for their time in making copies, or in any way realize a profit\nfrom the use of this book. See the permissions notice in the book itself\nfor the precise terms.\n\nNegotiations are currently underway with a Mormon publisher vis-a-vis the\nprinting and distribution of bound books. (Sorry, I'm out of the wire-bound\n\"first editions.\") I will make another announcement about the availability\nof printed copies once everything has been worked out.\n\nFTP information: connect via anonymous ftp to carnot.itc.cmu.edu, then \"cd\npub\" (you won't see anything at all until you do).\n\n\"The Easy-to-Read Book of Mormon\" is currently available in postscript and\nRTF (rich text format). (ASCII, LaTeX, and other versions can be made\navailable; contact dba@andrew.cmu.edu for details.) You should be able to\nprint the postscript file on any postscript printer (such as an Apple\nLaserwriter); let dba know if you have any difficulties. (The postscript in\nthe last release had problems on some printers; this time it should work\nbetter.) RTF is a standard document interchange format that can be read in\nby a number of word processors, including Microsoft Word for both the\nMacintosh and Windows. If you don't have a postscript printer, you may be\nable to use the RTF file to print out a copy of the book.\n\n-r--r--r-- 1 dba 1984742 Apr 27 13:12 etrbom.ps\n-r--r--r-- 1 dba 1209071 Apr 27 13:13 etrbom.rtf\n\nFor more information about how this project came about, please refer to my\narticle in the current issue of _Sunstone_, entitled \"Delighting in\nPlainness: Issues Surrounding a Simple Modern English Book of Mormon.\"\n\nSend all inquiries and comments to:\n\n Lynn Matthews Anderson\n 5806 Hampton Street\n Pittsburgh, PA 15206", "=Hmm. The police strategy of bursting in with weapons drawn, clearly marked as\n=officers and yelling \"Police\" repeatedly. This is used every day to bust drug\n=houses. The idea is to awe the suspects into submission with surprise and\n=display of firepowere in order to avoid a gun fight. As for not knocking, it's\n=a sad necessity in many cases since the suspects will attempt to escape or even\n=fight. Usually this strategy works; if it didn't, then it wouldn't be used so\n=commonly, now would it?\n\nHow often is it used when the convoy carrying the brigade is visible for miles\nbefore it reaches the place that's to be searched?\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nCarl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL", " \n \nWow, this is news to me---it started in Tarsus--you know, where Paul\nof NT fame was from. Not to be nasty, but get a clue, read\n_The Orgins of the Mithraic Mysteries_ by DUlansey!\n \nHey hasn't anyone read Manly P Hall's works? Perhaps it might be\nworth a try....", " ^^^^^^^^^\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nWhat kind of brainless clod posted the above garbage? Would they be\nso kind as to explain how this is \"Clinton's\" initiative, when it\nhas been before Congress for \"at least the past 6 months\"?", "\n\n\n\n\nIt is the Croats that were divided, at least 70,000 were left in Serbian\nprovince of Vojvodina. It is the Muslims that were divided, 200,000\nleft in the region of Sanjak that now belongs to Serbia. If the Serbs\nin Croatia and Bosnia-Hercegovina want self-determination, the same\nright should be given to Croats and Muslims, and Albanians and Hungarians\nin Serbia. Why should Serbia be exempted?\n", "CALL FOR PAPERS\n The Internet Society Symposium on\n Network and Distributed System Security\n\n 3-4 February 1994, Catamaran Hotel, San Diego, California\n\nThe symposium will bring together people who are building software and\nhardware to provide network or distributed system security services.\nThe symposium is intended for those interested in practical aspects of\nnetwork and distributed system security, rather than in theory. Symposium\nproceedings will be published by the Internet Society. Topics for the\nsymposium include, but are not limited to, the following:\n\n* Design and implementation of services--access control, authentication,\n availability, confidentiality, integrity, and non-repudiation\n --including criteria for placing services at particular protocol\nlayers.\n\n* Design and implementation of security mechanisms and support\n services--encipherment and key management systems, authorization\n and audit systems, and intrusion detection systems.\n\n* Requirements and architectures for distributed applications and\n network functions--message handling, file transport, remote\n file access, directories, time synchronization, interactive\n sessions, remote data base management and access, routing, voice and\n video multicast and conferencing, news groups, network management,\n boot services, mobile computing, and remote I/O.\n\n* Special issues and problems in security architecture, such as\n -- very large systems like the international Internet, and\n -- high-speed systems like the gigabit testbeds now being built.\n\n* Interplay between security goals and other goals--efficiency,\n reliability, interoperability, resource sharing, and low cost.\n\nGENERAL CHAIR:\n Dan Nessett, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory\n\nPROGRAM CHAIRS:\n Russ Housley, Xerox Special Information Systems\n Rob Shirey, The MITRE Corporation\n\nPROGRAM COMMITTEE:\n Dave Balenson, Trusted Information Systems\n Tom Berson, Anagram Laboratories\n Matt Bishop, Dartmouth College\n Ed Cain, U.S. Defense Information Systems Agency\n Jim Ellis, CERT Coordination Center\n Steve Kent, Bolt, Beranek and Newman\n John Linn, Independent Consultant\n Clifford Neuman, Information Sciences Institute\n Michael Roe, Cambridge University\n Rob Rosenthal, U.S. National Institute of Standards and Technology\n Jeff Schiller, Massachusetts Institute of Technology\n Ravi Sandhu, George Mason University\n Peter Yee, U.S. National Aeronautics and Space Administration\n\nSUBMISSIONS: The committee seeks both original technical papers and\nproposals for panel discussions on technical and other topics of general\ninterest. Technical papers should be 10-20 pages in length. Panels\nshould include three or four speakers. A panel proposal must name the\npanel chair, include a one-page topic introduction authored by the chair,\nand also include one-page position summaries authored by each speaker\nBoth the technical papers and the panel papers will appear in the\nproceedings.\n\nSubmissions must be made by 16 August 1993. Submissions should be made\nvia electronic mail to\n\n 1994symposium@smiley.mitre.org.\n\nSubmissions may be in either of two formats: ASCII or PostScript. If\nthe committee is unable to read a PostScript submission, it will be\nreturned and ASCII requested. Therefore, PostScript submissions should\narrive well before 16 August. If electronic submission is absolutely\nimpossible, submissions should be sent via postal mail to\n\n Robert W. Shirey, Mail Stop Z202\n The MITRE Corporation\n McLean, Virginia 22102-3481 USA\n\nAll submissions must include both an Internet electronic mail address and\na postal address. Each submission will be acknowledged through the\nmedium by which it is received. If acknowledgment is not received within\nseven days, please contact either Rob Shirey or\nRuss Housley , or telephone Mana Weigand at\nMITRE in Mclean, 703-883-5397. ", "\n\nBzzzzzt! Wrong answer. The UK tone dialling is identical to the US system. \nThe different settings on your modem are so that it uses CCITT V21 & V22 \ntones for data transmission, rather than Bell 103 & Bell 121 tones, which are \nused only in the USA and canada AFAIK. As most people now use at least \nV22bis, this is largely irrelevant.\n\nTony\n\n", "============================================================================\nDavid Matthew Deane (deane@binah.cc.brandeis.edu)", "Hello, this package is the right thing for you if you are \nplanning a short vacation in central Florida. For $169, you get:\n\n\t--Four nights in first class hotels for two adults and up\nto three children. Two nights each in Orlendo and Daytona Beach.\nYou will pay additional state tax of $3/day (required by law).\n\n\t--A great coupon book for major tourist atractions, \nrestaurants, etc.\n\n\t--Fully transferable. It expires at 9/16/93. Can be extended\nfor a whole year for only $20 more.\n\n\t--you need to make reservation 45 days in advance otherwise\nthe availability of hotel is not ganranteed.\n\n\t--Price negotiable.\n\n\tThe reason I am selling it is because I missed the deadline\nof using it for last Chrismas. ", "----------", "\n\n\n\nOk, I have a question... why? Why do people copy the article, and the \nonly new thing they add to the post is there name? I'm not picking on \nthis person, I've seen a few of these. Is it just a mistake? Am I \nmissing something? Is it some unknown net-equette I missed somewhere?\nI skip over all the quoted material, since I've already read it, and look \nfor the non-quoted material, and all I get is the name addition. Is this \nsupposed to me \"I agree\", or \"I second this\" or what?\n\nSorry...", "\nI sometimes wonder if Kekule's dream wasn't just a wee bit influenced by\naromatic solvent vapors ;-) heh heh.\n\n", "Enclosed are the rules, guidelines and related information for the 10th\nInternational Obfuscated C Code Contest. (This is part 2 of a 2 part\nshar file).\n\nEnjoy!\n\nchongo /\\oo/\\\nLarry Bassel\n\n=-=\n\n#!/bin/sh\n# This is part 02 of a multipart archive\n# ============= mkentry.c ==============\necho \"x - extracting mkentry.c (Text)\"\nsed 's/^X//' << 'SHAR_EOF' > mkentry.c &&\nX/* @(#)mkentry.c\t1.24 3/1/93 02:28:49 */\nX/*\nX * Copyright (c) Landon Curt Noll & Larry Bassel, 1993. \nX * All Rights Reserved. Permission for personal, education or non-profit use \nX * is granted provided this this copyright and notice are included in its \nX * entirety and remains unaltered. All other uses must receive prior \nX * permission in writing from both Landon Curt Noll and Larry Bassel.\nX */\nX/*\nX * mkentry - make an International Obfuscated C Code Contest entry\nX *\nX * usage:\nX *\tmkentry -r remarks -b build -p prog.c -o ioccc.entry\nX *\nX *\t-r remarks\t\tfile with remarks about the entry\nX *\t-b build\t\tfile containing how prog.c should be built\nX *\t-p prog.c\t\tthe obfuscated program source file\nX *\t-o ioccc.entry\t\tioccc entry output file\nX *\nX * compile by:\nX *\tcc mkentry.c -o mkentry\nX */\nX/*\nX * Placed in the public domain by Landon Curt Noll, 1992.\nX *\nX * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED ``AS IS'' AND WITHOUT ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED\nX * WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF\nX * MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.\nX */\nX/*\nX * WARNING:\nX *\nX * This program attempts to implement the IOCCC rules. Every attempt\nX * has been made to make sure that this program produces an entry that\nX * conforms to the contest rules. In all cases, where this program\nX * differs from the contest rules, the contest rules will be used. Be\nX * sure to check with the contest rules before submitting an entry.\nX *\nX * Send questions or comments (but not entries) about the contest, to:\nX *\nX *\t...!{sun,pacbell,uunet,pyramid}!hoptoad!judges\nX *\tjudges@toad.com\nX * The rules and the guidelines may (and often do) change from year to\nX * year. You should be sure you have the current rules and guidelines\nX * prior to submitting entries. To obtain all 3 of them, send Email\nX * to the address above and use the subject 'send rules'.\nX *\nX * Because contest rules change from year to year, one should only use this\nX * program for the year that it was intended. Be sure that the RULE_YEAR\nX * define below matches this current year.\nX */\nX\nX#include \nX#include \nX#include \nX#include \nX#include \nX\nX/* logic */\nX#ifndef TRUE\nX# define TRUE 1\nX#endif /* TRUE */\nX#ifndef FALSE\nX# define FALSE 0\nX#endif /* FALSE */\nX#define EOF_OK TRUE\nX#define EOF_NOT_OK FALSE\nX\nX/* global limits */\nX#define RULE_YEAR 1993\t\t/* NOTE: should match the current year */\nX#define START_DATE \"1Mar92 0:00 UTC\"\t/* first confirmation received */\nX#define MAX_COL 79\t\t/* max column a line should hit */\nX#define MAX_BUILD_SIZE 256\t/* max how to build size */\nX#define MAX_PROGRAM_SIZE 3217\t/* max program source size */\nX#define MAX_PROGRAM_SIZE2 1536\t/* max program source size not counting\nX\t\t\t\t whitespace and {}; not followed by\nX\t\t\t\t whitespace or EOF */\nX#define MAX_TITLE_LEN 12\t/* max chars in the title */\nX#define MAX_ENTRY_LEN 1\t\t/* max length in the entry input line */\nX#define MAX_ENTRY 8\t\t/* max number of entries per person per year */\nX#define MAX_FILE_LEN 1024\t/* max filename length for a info file */\nX\nX/* where to send entries */\nX#define ENTRY_ADDR1 \"...!{apple,pyramid,sun,uunet}!hoptoad!obfuscate\"\nX#define ENTRY_ADDR2 \"obfuscate@toad.com\"\nX\nX/* uuencode process - assumes ASCII */\nX#define UUENCODE(c) (encode_str[(int)(c)&0xff])\nX#define UUENCODE_LEN 45\t\t/* max uuencode chunk size */\nX#define UUINFO_MODE 0444\t/* mode of an info file's uuencode file */\nX#define UUBUILD_MODE 0444\t/* mode of the build file's uuencode file */\nX#define UUBUILD_NAME \"build\"\t/* name for the build file's uuencode file */\nX#define UUPROG_MODE 0444\t/* mode of the program's uuencode file */\nX#define UUPROG_NAME \"prog.c\"\t/* name for the program's uuencode file */\nX\nX/* encode_str[(char)val] is the uuencoded character of val */\nXchar encode_str[256+1] = \"`!\\\"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\\\\]^_ !\\\"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\\\\]^_ !\\\"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\\\\]^_ !\\\"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\\\\]^_\";\nX\nX/* global declarations */\nXchar *program;\t\t\t/* our name */\nXlong start_time;\t\t/* the startup time */\nX\nX/* forward declarations */\nXvoid parse_args();\nXvoid usage();\nXFILE *open_remark();\nXFILE *open_build();\nXFILE *open_program();\nXFILE *open_output();\nXvoid output_entry();\nXvoid output_remark();\nXvoid output_author();\nXvoid output_info();\nXvoid output_build();\nXvoid output_program();\nXvoid output_end();\nXint get_line();\nXvoid output_till_dot();\nXint col_len();\nXvoid check_io();\nXvoid uuencode();\nX\nXmain(argc, argv)\nX int argc;\t\t/* arg count */\nX char **argv;\t/* the args */\nX{\nX FILE *remark=NULL;\t/* open remarks stream */\nX FILE *build=NULL;\t/* open build file stream */\nX FILE *prog=NULL;\t/* open program stream */\nX FILE *output=NULL;\t/* open output stream */\nX char *rname=NULL;\t/* file with remarks about the entry */\nX char *bname=NULL;\t/* file containing how prog.c should be built */\nX char *pname=NULL;\t/* the obfuscated program source file */\nX char *oname=NULL;\t/* ioccc entry output file */\nX struct tm *tm;\t/* startup time structure */\nX\nX /*\nX * check on the year\nX */\nX start_time = time((long *)0);\nX tm = gmtime(&start_time);\nX if (tm->tm_year != RULE_YEAR-1900) {\nX\tfprintf(stderr,\nX\t\"%s: WARNING: this program applies to %d, which may differ from %d\\n\\n\",\nX\t argv[0], RULE_YEAR, 1900+tm->tm_year);\nX }\nX\nX /*\nX * parse the command line args\nX */\nX parse_args(argc, argv, &rname, &bname, &pname, &oname);\nX\nX /*\nX * open/check the input and output files\nX *\nX * We open and truncate the output file first, in case it is the same\nX * as one of the input files.\nX */\nX output = open_output(oname);\nX remark = open_remark(rname);\nX build = open_build(bname);\nX prog = open_program(pname);\nX if (output==NULL || remark==NULL || build==NULL || prog==NULL) {\nX\texit(1);\nX }\nX\nX /*\nX * output each section\nX */\nX output_entry(output, oname);\nX output_remark(output, oname, remark, rname);\nX output_author(output, oname);\nX output_info(output, oname);\nX output_build(output, oname, build, bname);\nX output_program(output, oname, prog, pname);\nX output_end(output, oname);\nX\nX /* \nX * flush the output \nX */\nX if (fflush(output) == EOF) {\nX\tfprintf(stderr, \"%s: flush error in %s: \", program, oname);\nX\tperror(\"\");\nX\texit(2);\nX }\nX\nX /*\nX * final words\nX */\nX printf(\"\\nYour entry can be found in %s. You should check this file\\n\", \nX\toname);\nX printf(\"correct any problems and verify that the uudecode utility will\\n\");\nX printf(\"correctly decode your build file and program.\\n\\n\");\nX printf(\"This program has been provided as a guide for submitters. In\\n\");\nX printf(\"cases where it conflicts with the rules, the rules shall apply.\\n\");\nX printf(\"It is your responsibility to ensure that your entry conforms to\\n\");\nX printf(\"the current rules.\\n\\n\");\nX printf(\"Email your entries to:\\n\");\nX printf(\"\\t%s\\n\", ENTRY_ADDR1);\nX printf(\"\\t%s\\n\\n\", ENTRY_ADDR2);\nX printf(\"Please use the following subject when you Email your entry:\\n\");\nX printf(\"\\tioccc entry\\n\\n\");\nX /* all done */\nX exit(0);\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * parse_args - parse the command line args\nX *\nX * Given the command line args, this function parses them and sets the\nX * required name flags. This function will return only if the command\nX * line syntax is correct.\nX */\nXvoid\nXparse_args(argc, argv, rname, bname, pname, oname)\nX int argc;\t\t/* arg count */\nX char **argv;\t/* the args */\nX char **rname;\t/* file with remarks about the entry */\nX char **bname;\t/* file containing how prog.c should be built */\nX char **pname;\t/* the obfuscated program source file */\nX char **oname;\t/* ioccc entry output file */\nX{\nX char *optarg;\t/* -flag option operand */\nX int flagname;\t/* the name of the -flag */\nX int i;\nX\nX /*\nX * Not everyone has getopt, so we must parse args by hand.\nX */\nX program = argv[0];\nX for (i=1; i < argc; ++i) {\nX\nX\t/* determine the flagname */\nX\tif (argv[i][0] != '-') {\nX\t usage(1);\nX\t /*NOTREACHED*/\nX\t}\nX\tflagname = (int)argv[i][1];\nX\nX\t/* determine the flag's operand */\nX\tif (flagname != '\\0' && argv[i][2] != '\\0') {\nX\t optarg = &argv[i][2];\nX\t} else {\nX\t if (i+1 >= argc) {\nX\t\tusage(2);\nX\t\t/*NOTREACHED*/\nX\t } else {\nX\t\toptarg = argv[++i];\nX\t }\nX\t}\nX\nX\t/* save the flag's operand in the correct global variable */\nX\tswitch (flagname) {\nX\tcase 'r':\nX\t *rname = optarg;\nX\t break;\nX\tcase 'b':\nX\t *bname = optarg;\nX\t break;\nX\tcase 'p':\nX\t *pname = optarg;\nX\t break;\nX\tcase 'o':\nX\t *oname = optarg;\nX\t break;\nX\tdefault:\nX\t usage(3);\nX\t /*NOTREACHED*/\nX\t}\nX }\nX\nX /*\nX * verify that we have all of the required flags\nX */\nX if (*rname == NULL || *bname == NULL || *pname == NULL || *oname == NULL) {\nX\tusage(4);\nX\t/*NOTREACHED*/\nX }\nX return;\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * usage - print a usage message and exit\nX *\nX * This function does not return.\nX */\nXvoid\nXusage(exitval)\nX int exitval;\t\t/* exit with this value */\nX{\nX fprintf(stderr,\nX\t\"usage: %s -r remarks -b build -p prog.c -o ioccc.entry\\n\\n\", program);\nX fprintf(stderr, \"\\t-r remarks\\tfile with remarks about the entry\\n\");\nX fprintf(stderr, \"\\t-b build\\tfile containing how prog.c should be built\\n\");\nX fprintf(stderr, \"\\t-p prog.c\\tthe obfuscated program source file\\n\");\nX fprintf(stderr, \"\\t-o ioccc.entry\\tioccc entry output file\\n\");\nX exit(exitval);\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * open_remark - open/check the remark file\nX *\nX * The remark file should be indented by 4 spaces, and should not extend \nX * beyond column MAX_COL. These are not requirements, so we only warn.\nX *\nX * This function returns NULL on I/O or format error.\nX */\nXFILE *\nXopen_remark(filename)\nX char *filename;\nX{\nX FILE *stream;\t\t/* the opened file stream */\nX char buf[BUFSIZ+1];\t\t/* input buffer */\nX int toolong=0;\t\t/* number of lines that are too long */\nX int non_indent=0;\t\t/* number of lines not indented by 4 spaces */\nX\nX /*\nX * open the remark input file\nX */\nX stream = fopen(filename, \"r\");\nX if (stream == NULL) {\nX\tfprintf(stderr, \"%s: cannot open remark file: %s: \",\nX\t program, filename);\nX\tperror(\"\");\nX\treturn(NULL);\nX }\nX\nX /*\nX * look at each line\nX */\nX while (fgets(buf, BUFSIZ, stream) != NULL) {\nX\nX\t/* count lines that do not start with 4 spaces */\nX\tif (buf[0] != '\\n' && strncmp(buf, \" \", 4) != 0) {\nX\t ++non_indent;\nX\t}\nX\nX\t/* count long lines */\nX\tif (col_len(buf) > MAX_COL) {\nX\t /* found a line that is too long */\nX\t ++toolong;\nX\t}\nX }\nX\nX /* watch for I/O errors */\nX check_io(stream, filename, EOF_OK);\nX\nX /* note long lines if needed */\nX if (toolong > 0) {\nX\tfprintf(stderr,\nX\t \"%s: WARNING: %d line(s) from %s extend beyond the 80th column\\n\",\nX\t program, toolong, filename);\nX\tfprintf(stderr,\nX\t \"%s: This is ok, but it would be nice to avoid\\n\\n\",\nX\t program);\nX }\nX\nX /* note non-indented lines, if needed */\nX if (non_indent > 0) {\nX\tfprintf(stderr,\nX\t \"%s: WARNING: %d line(s) from %s are not indented by 4 spaces\\n\",\nX\t program, non_indent, filename);\nX\tfprintf(stderr,\nX\t \"%s: This is ok, but it would be nice to avoid\\n\\n\",\nX\t program);\nX }\nX\nX /* return the open file */\nX rewind(stream);\nX return(stream);\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * open_build - open/check the build file\nX *\nX * The how to build file must not be longer than MAX_BUILD_SIZE bytes.\nX *\nX * This function returns NULL on I/O or size error.\nX */\nXFILE *\nXopen_build(filename)\nX char *filename;\nX{\nX FILE *stream;\t\t/* the opened file stream */\nX struct stat statbuf;\t/* the status of the open file */\nX\nX /*\nX * open the how to build input file\nX */\nX stream = fopen(filename, \"r\");\nX if (stream == NULL) {\nX\tfprintf(stderr, \"%s: cannot open how to build file: %s: \",\nX\t program, filename);\nX\tperror(\"\");\nX\treturn(NULL);\nX }\nX\nX /*\nX * determine the size of the file\nX */\nX if (fstat(fileno(stream), &statbuf) < 0) {\nX\tfprintf(stderr, \"%s: cannot stat how to build file: %s: \",\nX\t program, filename);\nX\tperror(\"\");\nX\treturn(NULL);\nX }\nX if (statbuf.st_size > MAX_BUILD_SIZE) {\nX\tfprintf(stderr,\nX\t \"%s: FATAL: the how to build file: %s, is %d bytes long\\n\",\nX\t program, filename, statbuf.st_size);\nX\tfprintf(stderr,\nX\t \"%s: it may not be longer than %d bytes\\n\",\nX\t program, MAX_BUILD_SIZE);\nX\treturn(NULL);\nX }\nX\nX /* return the open file */\nX return(stream);\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * open_program - open/check the program source file\nX *\nX * The program source file must be <= 3217 bytes. The number of\nX * non-whitespace and }{; chars not followed by whitespace must\nX * be <= 1536 bytes.\nX *\nX * This function returns NULL on I/O or size error.\nX */\nXFILE *\nXopen_program(filename)\nX char *filename;\nX{\nX FILE *stream;\t\t/* the opened file stream */\nX struct stat statbuf;\t/* the status of the open file */\nX int count;\t\t\t/* special count size */\nX int c;\t\t\t/* the character read */\nX\nX /*\nX * open the program source input file\nX */\nX stream = fopen(filename, \"r\");\nX if (stream == NULL) {\nX\tfprintf(stderr, \"%s: cannot open program source file: %s: \",\nX\t program, filename);\nX\tperror(\"\");\nX\texit(7);\nX }\nX\nX /*\nX * determine the size of the file\nX */\nX if (fstat(fileno(stream), &statbuf) < 0) {\nX\tfprintf(stderr, \"%s: cannot stat program source file: %s: \",\nX\t program, filename);\nX\tperror(\"\");\nX\treturn(NULL);\nX }\nX if (statbuf.st_size > MAX_PROGRAM_SIZE) {\nX\tfprintf(stderr,\nX\t \"%s: FATAL: the program source file: %s, is %d bytes long\\n\",\nX\t program, filename, statbuf.st_size);\nX\tfprintf(stderr,\nX\t \"%s: it may not be longer than %d bytes\\n\",\nX\t program, MAX_PROGRAM_SIZE);\nX\treturn(NULL);\nX }\nX\nX /*\nX * count the non-whitespace, non {}; followed by whitespace chars\nX */\nX count = 0;\nX c = 0;\nX while ((c=fgetc(stream)) != EOF) {\nX\t/* look at non-whitespace */\nX\tif (!isascii(c) || !isspace(c)) {\nX\t switch (c) {\nX\t case '{':\t\t/* count if not followed by EOF or whitespace */\nX\t case '}':\nX\t case ';':\nX\t\t/* peek at next char */\nX\t\tc = fgetc(stream);\nX\t\tif (c != EOF && isascii(c) && !isspace(c)) {\nX\t\t /* not followed by whitespace or EOF, count it */\nX\t\t ungetc(c, stream);\nX\t\t ++count;\nX\t\t}\nX\t\tbreak;\nX\t default:\nX\t\t++count;\nX\t\tbreak;\nX\t }\nX\t}\nX }\nX\nX /* watch for I/O errors */\nX check_io(stream, filename, EOF_OK);\nX\nX /* look at the special size */\nX if (count > MAX_PROGRAM_SIZE2) {\nX\tfprintf(stderr,\nX\t \"%s: FATAL: the number of bytes that are non-whitespace, and\\n\",\nX\t program);\nX\tfprintf(stderr,\nX\t \"%s: that are not '{', '}', ';' followed by whitespace\\n\",\nX\t program);\nX\tfprintf(stderr,\nX\t \"%s: or EOF must be <= %d bytes\\n\",\nX\t program, MAX_PROGRAM_SIZE2);\nX\tfprintf(stderr,\nX\t \"%s: in %s, %d bytes were found\\n\",\nX\t program, filename, count);\nX\treturn(NULL);\nX }\nX\nX /* return the open file */\nX rewind(stream);\nX return(stream);\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * open_output - open/check the entry output file\nX *\nX * This function returns NULL on open error.\nX */\nXFILE *\nXopen_output(filename)\nX char *filename;\nX{\nX FILE *stream;\t\t/* the opened file stream */\nX\nX /*\nX * open the ioccc entry output file\nX */\nX stream = fopen(filename, \"w\");\nX if (stream == NULL) {\nX\tfprintf(stderr, \"%s: cannot open ioccc entry file for output: %s: \",\nX\t program, filename);\nX\tperror(\"\");\nX\texit(8);\nX }\nX\nX /* return the open file */\nX return(stream);\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * output_entry - output the ---entry--- section\nX *\nX * Read the needed information form stdin, and write the entry section.\nX */\nXvoid\nXoutput_entry(output, oname)\nX FILE *output;\t\t/* entry's output file stream */\nX char *oname;\t\t/* name of the output file */\nX{\nX char title[MAX_TITLE_LEN+1+1];\t/* the entry's title */\nX char buf[MAX_COL+1+1];\t\t/* I/O buffer */\nX int entry=0;\t\t\t/* entry number */\nX int ret;\t\t\t\t/* fields processed by fscanf */\nX int ok_line=0;\t\t\t/* 0 => the line is not ok */\nX char skip;\t\t\t\t/* input to skip */\nX FILE *date_pipe;\t\t\t/* pipe to a date command */\nX time_t epoch_sec;\t\t\t/* seconds since the epoch */\nX char *p;\nX\nX /*\nX * write the start of the section\nX */\nX fprintf(output, \"---entry---\\n\");\nX check_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX /*\nX * write the rule year\nX */\nX fprintf(output, \"rule:\\t%d\\n\", RULE_YEAR);\nX check_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX /* determine if this is a fix */\nX printf(\"Is this a fix, update or resubmittion to a \");\nX printf(\"previous entry (enter y or n)? \");\nX while (get_line(buf, 1+1, 0) <= 0 || !(buf[0]=='y' || buf[0]=='n')) {\nX\tprintf(\"\\nplease answer y or n: \");\nX }\nX if (buf[0] == 'y') {\nX\tfprintf(output, \"fix:\\ty\\n\");\nX\tcheck_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\tprintf(\"\\nBe sure that the title and entry number that you give\\n\");\nX\tprintf(\"are the same of as the entry you are replacing\\n\");\nX } else {\nX\tfprintf(output, \"fix:\\tn\\n\");\nX\tcheck_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX }\nX\nX /*\nX * write the title\nX */\nX printf(\"\\nYour title must match expression be a [a-zA-Z0-9_=] character\\n\");\nX printf(\"followed by 0 to %d more [a-zA-Z0-9_=+-] characters.\\n\\n\",\nX\tMAX_TITLE_LEN-1);\nX printf(\"It is suggested, but not required, that the title should\\n\");\nX printf(\"incorporate your username; in the\\n\");\nX printf(\"case of multiple authors, consider using parts of the usernames\\n\");\nX printf(\"of the authors.\\n\\n\");\nX printf(\"enter your title: \");\nX do {\nX\t/* prompt and read a line */\nX\tif ((ok_line = get_line(title, MAX_TITLE_LEN+1, MAX_COL-9)) <= 0) {\nX\t printf(\"\\ntitle is too long, please re-enter: \");\nX\t continue;\nX\t}\nX\nX\t/* verify the pattern, not everyone has regexp, so do it by hand */\nX\tif (!isascii((int)title[0]) ||\nX\t !(isalnum((int)title[0]) || title[0] == '_' || title[0] == '=')) {\nX\t printf(\"\\ninvalid first character in the title\\n\\n\");\nX\t printf(\"enter your title: \");\nX\t ok_line = 0;\nX\t} else {\nX\t for (p=(&title[1]); *p != '\\0' && *p != '\\n'; ++p) {\nX\t\tif (!isascii((int)*p) ||\nX\t\t !(isalnum((int)*p) || \nX\t\t *p == '_' || *p == '=' || *p == '+' || *p == '-')) {\nX\t\t printf(\"\\ninvalid character in the title\\n\\n\");\nX\t\t printf(\"enter your title: \");\nX\t\t ok_line = 0;\nX\t\t}\nX\t }\nX\t}\nX } while (ok_line <= 0);\nX fprintf(output, \"title:\\t%s\", title);\nX check_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX /*\nX * write the entry number\nX */\nX printf(\"\\nEach person may submit up to %d entries per year.\\n\\n\",\nX\tMAX_ENTRY);\nX printf(\"enter an entry number from 0 to %d inclusive: \", MAX_ENTRY-1);\nX do {\nX\t/* get a valid input line */\nX\tfflush(stdout);\nX\tret = fscanf(stdin, \"%d[\\n]\", &entry);\nX\tcheck_io(stdin, \"stdin\", EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\t/* skip over input until newline is found */\nX\tdo {\nX\t skip = fgetc(stdin);\nX\t check_io(stdin, \"stdin\", EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\t if (skip != '\\n') {\nX\t\t/* bad text in input, invalidate entry number */\nX\t\tentry = -1;\nX\t }\nX\t} while (skip != '\\n');\nX\nX\t/* check if we have a number, and if it is in range */\nX\tif (ret != 1 || entry < 0 || entry > MAX_ENTRY-1) {\nX\t printf(\nX\t \"\\nThe entry number must be between 0 and %d inclusive\\n\\n\",\nX\t\tMAX_ENTRY-1);\nX\t printf(\"enter the entry number: \");\nX\t}\nX } while (ret != 1 || entry < 0 || entry > MAX_ENTRY-1);\nX fprintf(output, \"entry:\\t%d\\n\", entry);\nX check_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX /*\nX * write the submission date\nX */\nX /* returns a newline */\nX epoch_sec = time(NULL);\nX fprintf(output, \"date:\\t%s\", asctime(gmtime(&epoch_sec)));\nX check_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX /*\nX * write the OS/machine host information\nX */\nX printf(\nX \"\\nEnter the machine(s) and OS(s) under which your entry was tested.\\n\");\nX output_till_dot(output, oname, \"host:\");\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * output_remark - output the ---remark--- section\nX *\nX * Read the needed information form stdin, and write the entry section.\nX */\nXvoid\nXoutput_remark(output, oname, remark, rname)\nX FILE *output;\t\t/* entry's output file stream */\nX char *oname;\t\t/* name of the output file */\nX FILE *remark;\t\t/* stream to the file containing remark text */\nX char *rname;\t\t/* name of the remark file */\nX{\nX char buf[BUFSIZ+1];\t\t/* input/output buffer */\nX\nX /*\nX * write the start of the section\nX */\nX fprintf(output, \"---remark---\\n\");\nX check_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX /*\nX * copy the remark file to the section\nX */\nX while (fgets(buf, BUFSIZ, remark) != NULL) {\nX\tfputs(buf, output);\nX\tcheck_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX }\nX check_io(remark, rname, EOF_OK);\nX\nX /* be sure that the remark section ends with a newline */\nX if (buf[strlen(buf)-1] != '\\n') {\nX\tfputc('\\n', output);\nX\tcheck_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX }\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * output_author - output the ---author--- section\nX *\nX * Read the needed information from stdin, and write the author section.\nX * If multiple authors exist, multiple author sections will be written.\nX */\nXvoid\nXoutput_author(output, oname)\nX FILE *output;\t\t/* entry's output file stream */\nX char *oname;\t\t/* name of the output file */\nX{\nX char buf[MAX_COL+1+1];\t/* I/O buffer */\nX int more_auths;\t\t/* TRUE => more authors to note */\nX int auth_cnt=0;\t\t/* number of authors processed */\nX\nX /*\nX * prompt the user for the author section\nX */\nX printf(\"\\nEnter information about each author. If your entry is after\\n\");\nX printf(\"%s and before the contest deadline, the judges\\n\", START_DATE);\nX printf(\"will attempt to Email back a confirmation to the first author\\n\");\nX\nX /*\nX * place author information for each author in an individual section\nX */\nX do {\nX\nX\t/* write the start of the section */\nX\tfprintf(output, \"---author---\\n\");\nX\tcheck_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX\t/* write the author */\nX\tprintf(\"\\nAuthor #%d name: \", ++auth_cnt);\nX\twhile (get_line(buf, MAX_COL+1, MAX_COL-9) <= 0) {\nX\t printf(\"\\nname too long, please re-enter: \");\nX\t}\nX\tfprintf(output, \"name:\\t%s\", buf);\nX\tcheck_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX\t/* write the organization */\nX\tprintf(\"\\nEnter the School/Company/Organization of author #%d\\n\",\nX\t auth_cnt);\nX\tprintf(\"\\nAuthor #%d org: \", auth_cnt);\nX\twhile (get_line(buf, MAX_COL+1, MAX_COL-9) <= 0) {\nX\t printf(\"\\nline too long, please re-enter: \");\nX\t}\nX\tfprintf(output, \"org:\\t%s\", buf);\nX\tcheck_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX\t/* write the address */\nX\tprintf(\nX\t \"\\nEnter the postal address for author #%d. Be sure to include\\n\",\nX\t auth_cnt);\nX\tprintf(\"your country and do not include your name.\\n\");\nX\toutput_till_dot(output, oname, \"addr:\");\nX\nX\t/* write the Email address */\nX\tprintf(\nX\t \"\\nEnter the Email address for author #%d. Use an address from\\n\",\nX\t auth_cnt);\nX\tprintf(\nX\t \"a registered domain or well known site. If you give several\\n\");\nX\tprintf(\"forms, list them one per line.\\n\");\nX\toutput_till_dot(output, oname, \"email:\");\nX\nX\t/* write the anonymous status */\nX\tprintf(\"\\nShould author #%d remain anonymous (enter y or n)? \",\nX\t auth_cnt);\nX\twhile (get_line(buf, 1+1, 0) <= 0 || !(buf[0]=='y' || buf[0]=='n')) {\nX\t printf(\"\\nplease answer y or n: \");\nX\t}\nX\tfprintf(output, \"anon:\\t%s\", buf);\nX\tcheck_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX\t/* determine if there is another author */\nX\tprintf(\"\\nIs there another author (enter y or n)? \");\nX\twhile (get_line(buf, 1+1, 0) <= 0 || !(buf[0]=='y' || buf[0]=='n')) {\nX\t printf(\"\\nplease answer y or n: \");\nX\t}\nX\tif (buf[0] == 'y') {\nX\t more_auths = TRUE;\nX\t} else {\nX\t more_auths = FALSE;\nX\t}\nX } while (more_auths == TRUE);\nX return;\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * output_info - output the ---info--- section(s)\nX *\nX * Read the needed information from stdin, and write the info section.\nX * If multiple info files exist, multiple info sections will be written.\nX */\nXvoid\nXoutput_info(output, oname)\nX FILE *output;\t\t/* entry's output file stream */\nX char *oname;\t\t/* name of the output file */\nX{\nX char infoname[MAX_FILE_LEN+1];\t/* filename buffer */\nX char yorn[1+1];\t\t/* y or n answer */\nX char *uuname;\t\t/* name to uuencode as */\nX FILE *infile;\t\t/* info file stream */\nX\nX /*\nX * prompt the user for info information\nX */\nX printf(\"\\nInfo files should be used only to supplement your entry.\\n\");\nX printf(\"For example, info files may provide sample input or detailed\\n\");\nX printf(\"information about your entry. Because they are supplemental,\\n\");\nX printf(\"the entry should not require them to exist.\\n\\n\");\nX\nX /*\nX * while there is another info file to save, uuencode it\nX */\nX printf(\"Do you have a info file to include (enter y or n)? \");\nX while (get_line(yorn, 1+1, 0) <= 0 || !(yorn[0]=='y' || yorn[0]=='n')) {\nX\tprintf(\"\\nplease answer y or n: \");\nX }\nX while (yorn[0] == 'y') {\nX\nX\t/* read the filename */\nX\tprintf(\"\\nEnter the info filename: \");\nX\twhile (get_line(infoname, MAX_FILE_LEN+1, 0) <= 0) {\nX\t printf(\"\\nInfo filename too long, please re-enter: \");\nX\t}\nX\nX\t/* compute the basename of the info filename */\nX\t/* remove the trailing newline */\nX\tuuname = &infoname[strlen(infoname)-1];\nX\t*uuname = '\\0';\nX\t/* avoid rindex/shrrchr compat issues, do it by hand */\nX\tfor (--uuname; uuname > infoname; --uuname) {\nX\t if (*uuname == '/') {\nX\t\t++uuname;\nX\t\tbreak;\nX\t }\nX\t}\nX\nX\t/* attempt to open the info file */\nX\tinfile = fopen(infoname, \"r\");\nX\tif (infile == NULL) {\nX\t fprintf(stderr, \"\\n%s: cannot open info file: %s: \",\nX\t\tprogram, infoname);\nX\t perror(\"\");\nX\t continue;\nX\t}\nX\nX\t/*\nX\t * write the start of the section\nX\t */\nX\tfprintf(output, \"---info---\\n\");\nX\tcheck_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX\t/* uuencode the info file */\nX\tuuencode(output, oname, infile, infoname, UUINFO_MODE, uuname);\nX\nX\tprintf(\"\\nDo you have another info file to include (enter y or n)? \");\nX\twhile (get_line(yorn, 1+1, 0) <= 0 || !(yorn[0]=='y' || yorn[0]=='n')) {\nX\t printf(\"\\nplease answer y or n: \");\nX\t}\nX };\nX return;\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * output_build - output the ---build--- section\nX *\nX * Read the needed information from stdin, and write the build section.\nX */\nXvoid\nXoutput_build(output, oname, build, bname)\nX FILE *output;\t\t/* entry's output file stream */\nX char *oname;\t\t/* name of the output file */\nX FILE *build;\t\t/* open build file stream */\nX char *bname;\t\t/* name of the build file */\nX{\nX /*\nX * write the start of the section\nX */\nX fprintf(output, \"---build---\\n\");\nX check_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX /*\nX * uuencode the program file\nX */\nX uuencode(output, oname, build, bname, UUBUILD_MODE, UUBUILD_NAME);\nX return;\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * output_program - output the ---program--- section\nX *\nX * Read the needed information form stdin, and write the program section.\nX */\nXvoid\nXoutput_program(output, oname, prog, pname)\nX FILE *output;\t\t/* entry's output file stream */\nX char *oname;\t\t/* name of the output file */\nX FILE *prog;\t\t\t/* open program stream */\nX char *pname;\t\t/* name of program file */\nX{\nX /*\nX * write the start of the section\nX */\nX fprintf(output, \"---program---\\n\");\nX check_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX /*\nX * uuencode the program file\nX */\nX uuencode(output, oname, prog, pname, UUPROG_MODE, UUPROG_NAME);\nX return;\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * output_end - output the ---end--- section\nX *\nX * Read the needed information form stdin, and write the 'end section'.\nX */\nXvoid\nXoutput_end(output, oname)\nX FILE *output;\t\t/* entry's output file stream */\nX char *oname;\t\t/* name of the output file */\nX{\nX /*\nX * write the final section terminator\nX */\nX fprintf(output, \"---end---\\n\");\nX check_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX return;\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * get_line - get an answer from stdin\nX *\nX * This function will flush stdout, in case a prompt is pending, and\nX * read in the answer.\nX *\nX * This function returns 0 if the line is too long, of the length of the\nX * line (including the newline) of the line was ok. This function does\nX * not return if ERROR or EOF.\nX */\nXint\nXget_line(buf, siz, maxcol)\nX char *buf;\t\t\t/* input buffer */\nX int siz;\t\t\t/* length of input, including the newline */\nX int maxcol;\t\t\t/* max col allowed, 0 => disable check */\nX{\nX int length;\t\t\t/* the length of the input line */\nX\nX /* flush terminal output */\nX fflush(stdout);\nX\nX /* read the line */\nX if (fgets(buf, siz+1, stdin) == NULL) {\nX\t/* report the problem */\nX\tcheck_io(stdin, \"stdin\", EOF_NOT_OK);\nX }\nX\nX /* look for the newline */\nX length = strlen(buf);\nX if (buf[length-1] != '\\n') {\nX\tint eatchar;\t\t/* the char being eaten */\nX\nX\t/* no newline found, line must be too long, eat the rest of the line */\nX\tdo {\nX\t eatchar = fgetc(stdin);\nX\t} while (eatchar != EOF && eatchar != '\\n');\nX\tcheck_io(stdin, \"stdin\", EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX\t/* report the situation */\nX\treturn 0;\nX }\nX\nX /* watch for long lines, if needed */\nX if (maxcol > 0 && (length > maxcol || col_len(buf) > maxcol)) {\nX\t/* report the situation */\nX\treturn 0;\nX }\nX\nX /* return length */\nX return length;\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * output_till_dot - output a set of lines until '.' by itself is read\nX *\nX * This routine will read a set of lines until (but not including)\nX * a single line with '.' is read. The format of the output is:\nX *\nX *\tleader:\\tfirst line\nX *\t\\tnext line\nX *\t\\tnext line\nX *\t ...\nX *\nX * This routine will not return if I/O error or EOF.\nX */\nXvoid\nXoutput_till_dot(output, oname, leader)\nX FILE *output;\t\t/* entry's output file stream */\nX char *oname;\t\t/* name of the output file */\nX char *leader;\t\t/* the lead text for the first line */\nX{\nX char buf[BUFSIZ+1];\t\t/* input buffer */\nX int count;\t\t\t/* lines read */\nX int done=FALSE;\t\t/* TRUE => finished reading input */\nX\nX /* instruct the user on how to input */\nX printf(\"\\nTo end input, enter a line with a single period.\\n\");\nX\nX /* read lines until '.' or EOF */\nX count = 0;\nX while (!done) {\nX\t/* issue the prompt */\nX\tprintf(\"%s\\t\", (count>0) ? \"\" : leader);\nX\tfflush(stdout);\nX\nX\t/* get the line */\nX\tif (get_line(buf, BUFSIZ, MAX_COL-9) <= 0) {\nX\t printf(\"\\nline too long, please re-enter:\\n\\t\");\nX\t continue;\nX\t}\nX\nX\t/* note if '.' was read */\nX\tif (strcmp(buf, \".\\n\") == 0) {\nX\t done = TRUE;\nX\t}\nX\nX\t/* write line if we read something */\nX\tif (!done) {\nX\t fprintf(output, \"%s\\t%s\", (count++>0) ? \"\" : leader, buf);\nX\t check_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\t}\nX }\nX\nX /* if no lines read, at least output something */\nX if (count <= 0) {\nX\tfprintf(output, \"%s\\t.\\n\", leader);\nX\tcheck_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX }\nX return;\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * col_len - determine the highest that a string would reach\nX *\nX * Given a string, this routine returns that a string would reach\nX * if the string were printed at column 1. Tab stops are assumed\nX * to start at 9, 17, 25, 33, ...\nX */\nXint\nXcol_len(string)\nX char *string;\t\t/* the string to examine */\nX{\nX int col;\t/* current column */\nX char *p;\t/* current char */\nX\nX /* scan the string */\nX for (col=0, p=string; *p != '\\0' && *p != '\\n'; ++p) {\nX\t/* note the column shift */\nX\tcol = (*p=='\\t') ? 1+((col+8)/8*8) : col+1;\nX }\nX if (*p == '\\n') {\nX\t--col;\nX }\nX\nX /* return the highest column */\nX return col;\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * check_io - check for EOF or I/O error on a stream\nX *\nX * Does not return if EOF or I/O error.\nX */\nXvoid\nXcheck_io(stream, name, eof_ok)\nX FILE *stream;\t\t/* the stream to check */\nX char *name;\t\t\t/* the name of this stream */\nX int eof_ok;\t\t\t/* EOF_OK or EOF_NOT_OK */\nX{\nX /* test for I/O error */\nX if (ferror(stream)) {\nX\tfprintf(stderr, \"%s: error on %s: \", program, name);\nX\tperror(\"\");\nX\texit(1);\nX\nX /* test for EOF */\nX } else if (eof_ok == EOF_NOT_OK && feof(stream)) {\nX\tfprintf(stderr, \"%s: EOF on %s\\n\", program, name);\nX\texit(1);\nX }\nX return;\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * uuencode - uuencode a file\nX *\nX * Perform the uuencoding process identical to the process performed\nX * by the uuencode(1) utility.\nX *\nX * This routine implements the algorithm described in the uuencode(5)\nX * 4.3BSD Reno man page.\nX */\nXvoid\nXuuencode(output, oname, infile, iname, umode, uname)\nX FILE *output;\t\t/* output file stream */\nX char *oname;\t\t/* output filename */\nX FILE *infile;\t\t/* input file stream */\nX char *iname;\t\t/* input filename */\nX int umode;\t\t\t/* the mode to put on the uuencode file */\nX char *uname;\t\t/* name to put on the uuencode file */\nX{\nX char buf[UUENCODE_LEN+1];\t/* the uuencode buffer */\nX int read_len;\t\t/* actual number of chars read */\nX int val;\t\t\t/* 6 bit chunk from buf */\nX char filler='\\0';\t\t/* filler uuencode pad text */\nX char *p;\nX\nX /*\nX * output the initial uuencode header\nX */\nX fprintf(output, \"begin %o %s\\n\", umode, uname);\nX check_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX /*\nX * clear out the input buffer\nX */\nX for (p=buf; p < &buf[sizeof(buf)/sizeof(buf[0])]; ++p) {\nX\t*p = '\\0';\nX }\nX\nX /*\nX * We will process UUENCODE_LEN chars at a time, forming\nX * a single output line each time.\nX */\nX while ((read_len=fread(buf,sizeof(buf[0]),UUENCODE_LEN,infile)) > 0) {\nX\t\nX\t/*\nX\t * the first character is the length character\nX\t */\nX\tfputc(UUENCODE(read_len), output);\nX\tcheck_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX\t/*\nX\t * We will convert 24 bits at a time. Thus we will convert\nX\t * 3 sets of 8 bits into 4 sets of uuencoded 6 bits.\nX\t */\nX\tfor (p=buf; read_len>0; read_len-=3, p+=3) {\nX\nX\t /* bits 0 to 5 */\nX\t val = (p[0]>>2)&0x3f;\nX\t fputc(UUENCODE(val), output);\nX\t check_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX\t /* bits 6 to 11 */\nX\t val = ((p[0]<<4)&0x30) | ((p[1]>>4)&0x0f);\nX\t fputc(UUENCODE(val), output);\nX\t check_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX\t /* bits 12 to 17 */\nX\t val = ((p[1]<<2)&0x3c) | ((p[2]>>6)&0x03);\nX\t fputc(UUENCODE(val), output);\nX\t check_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX\t /* bits 18 to 23 */\nX\t val = p[2]&0x3f;\nX\t fputc(UUENCODE(val), output);\nX\t check_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\t}\nX\nX\t/* end of UUENCODE_LEN line */\nX\tfputc('\\n', output);\nX\tcheck_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX\t/*\nX\t * clear out the input buffer (don't depend on bzero() or memset())\nX\t */\nX\tfor (p=buf; p < &buf[sizeof(buf)/sizeof(buf[0])]; ++p) {\nX\t *p = '\\0';\nX\t}\nX }\nX\nX /* check the last read on the input file */\nX check_io(infile, iname, EOF_OK);\nX\nX /* write end of uuencode file */\nX fprintf(output, \"%c\\nend\\n\", UUENCODE(filler));\nX check_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX}\nSHAR_EOF\nchmod 0444 mkentry.c ||\necho \"restore of mkentry.c failed\"\nset `wc -c mkentry.c`;Wc_c=$1\nif test \"$Wc_c\" != \"33961\"; then\n\techo original size 33961, current size $Wc_c\nfi\n# ============= obfuscate.info ==============\necho \"x - extracting obfuscate.info (Text)\"\nsed 's/^X//' << 'SHAR_EOF' > obfuscate.info &&\nX1993 Obfuscated contest information\nX\nXCopyright (c) Landon Curt Noll & Larry Bassel, 1993. \nXAll Rights Reserved. Permission for personal, education or non-profit use is \nXgranted provided this this copyright and notice are included in its entirety \nXand remains unaltered. All other uses must receive prior permission in writing \nXfrom both Landon Curt Noll and Larry Bassel.\nX\nXThe International Obfuscated C Code Contest (IOCCC), in the sprit of\nXco-operation, is willing mention other programming contents, as space\nXpermits. \nX\nXHow to have your contest included in this file:\nX\nX If you wish the IOCCC judges to include your contest in this file,\nX send a request to:\nX\nX\tjudges@toad.com\nX\nX We request that contest descriptions be limited to 50 lines and to\nX not exceed 2500 bytes. We typically request that your contest\nX include a current description of the IOCCC.\nX\nX In order to be included in this file for given year, we must\nX receive a current description no EARLIER than Jan 1 00:00:00 UTC and\nX no LATER than Feb 15 00:00:00 UTC. Agreement to publish your\nX contest must also be obtained prior to Feb 15. Annual contests\nX that fail to submit a new entry will be dropped from this file.\nX\nXOfficial Disclaimer: (pardon the officialese)\nX\nX The contents noted below, other than the IOCCC, are not affiliated \nX with the IOCCC, nor are they endorsed by the IOCCC. We reserve the \nX right to refuse to print information about a given contest.\nX\nX The information below was provided by the particular contest\nX organizer(s) and printed by permission. Please contact the\nX contest organizer(s) directly regarding their contents.\nX\nXWith that official notice given, we present for your ENJOYMENT, the following\nXinformation about contents:\nX\nX---------------------------------------------------------------------------\nX\nX 10th International Obfuscated C Contest \nX \nX\t\"The original obfuscated contest\"\nX\nX Obfuscate: tr.v. -cated, -cating, -cates. 1. a. To render obscure.\nX b. To darken. 2. To confuse: Their emotions obfuscated \nX\t\ttheir judgment. [LLat. obfuscare, to darken : ob(intensive) +\nX Lat. fuscare, to darken < fuscus, dark.] -obfuscation n.\nX obfuscatory adj.\nX \nX GOALS OF THE CONTEST:\nX \nX * To write the most Obscure/Obfuscated C program under the rules below.\nX * To show the importance of programming style, in an ironic way.\nX * To stress C compilers with unusual code.\nX * To illustrate some of the subtleties of the C language.\nX * To provide a safe forum for poor C code. :-)\nX \nX The IOCCC is the grandfather of USENET programming contests. Since\nX 1984, this contest demonstrated that a program that mearly works\nX correctly is not sufficient. The IOCCC has also done much to add\nX the arcane word 'obfuscated' back into the English language.\nX (see \"The New Hacker's Dictionary\" by Eric Raymond)\nX \nX You are strongly encouraged to read the new contest rules before\nX sending any entries. The rules, and sometimes the contest Email\nX address itself, change over time. A valid entry one year may\nX be rejected in a later year due to changes in the rules. The typical\nX start date for contests is in early March. Contest rules are normally not\nX finalized and posted until the beginning of the contest. The typical \nX closing date for contests are in early May.\nX \nX The contest rules are posted to comp.unix.wizards, comp.lang.c,\nX misc.misc, alt.sources and comp.sources.d. If you do not have access \nX to these groups, or if you missed the early March posting, you may \nX request a copy from the judges, via Email, at;\nX \nX judges@toad.com -or- ...!{sun,uunet,utzoo,pyramid}!hoptoad!judges\nX \nX Previous contest winners are available via anonymous ftp from\nX ftp.uu.net under the directory /pub/ioccc.\nX\nX---------------------------------------------------------------------------\nX\nX 0th International Obfuscated Perl Contest\nX\tBy: Landon Noll & Larry Wall\nX\nX This content is being planned. Someday when Landon & Larry are not too \nX busy, they will actually get around to posting the first set of rules!\nX\nX\t\t but other existing projects got in the way. Hopefully\nX\t\t something will be developed after Nov 1993.\"\nX\nX---------------------------------------------------------------------------\nX\nX 2nd International obFUsCaTeD POsTsCripT Contest\nX Jonathan Monsarrat (jgm@cs.brown.edu)\nX Alena Lacova (alena@nikhef.nl)\nX\nX A contest of programming skills and knowledge, exclusively for the\nX PostScript programming language. Its purpose:\nX\nX * To spread knowledge of PostScript and its details.\nX * To applaud those with the best tricks.\nX * To prove that humans can beat those damnable machine generators at\nX their own game by writing the most obscure and mysterious PostScript\nX programs ever.\nX\nX Winners will receive the fame and attention that goes with having their\nX program entry posted as a winner to programmers world-wide.\nX\nX The 1993 contest rules and results are available by ftp as\nX ``wilma.cs.brown.edu:pub/postscript/obfuscated*.shar'', or individually\nX in the obfuscated directory. The judges will post the 1994 rules\nX in November to comp.lang.postscript on Usenet, and other places.\nX Send questions to jgm@cs.brown.edu.\nX\nX Categories include: Best Obfuscated PostScript, Best Artwork,\nX Most Compact, Best Interactive Program, Most Useful, and\nX anything so unusual and creative that it deserves an award.\nX\nX The judges will choose the winners of each category.\nX\nX Alena Lacova is a system administrator at NIKHEF (Institute for High\nX Energy and Nuclear Physics) in the Netherlands. She is the author of\nX The PostScript Chaos Programs, which draw Julia sets, Mandelbrot sets\nX and other kinds of fractal functions.\nX\nX Jonathan Monsarrat is a graduate student from MIT and Brown University\nX in the U.S.A. He is the FAQ maintainer for the Usenet newsgroup\nX comp.lang.postscript and the author of The PostScript Zone and LameTeX.\nX .\nX\nSHAR_EOF\nchmod 0444 obfuscate.info ||\necho \"restore of obfuscate.info failed\"\nset `wc -c obfuscate.info`;Wc_c=$1\nif test \"$Wc_c\" != \"6257\"; then\n\techo original size 6257, current size $Wc_c\nfi\nexit 0", "\n\nYes, very serious. I claim that I can substantiate my statement that\nRudman says he doesn't believe Perot was investigating him. You claim\nPerot was investigating him. If you will state that you were in error\non this point, provided I produce the source, I'll go dig it up.\n\nNow give me one reason why I should go to the trouble if you won't\nagree to this? It is simple enough you know. But I don't have time\nto waste if you'll just blow it off with more of the tripe you usually\npost.\n\n\n", "\n\n\nI heard yesterday that Pocklington was talking with folks at Copps\nthat afternoon (yesterday). \n\n", "What is the phone number for Alias?\nA toll-free number is preferred, if available.\n\nThanks\n", "\nEver hear about cutting off the electricity? That was done.\nHow effective is an electric stove then?", "\nI think this is a little inaccurate, based on Feynman's account of the\nsoftware-development process *before* the standdown. Fred is basically\ncorrect: no sophisticated tools, just a lot of effort and painstaking\ncare. But they got this one right *before* Challenger; Feynman cited\nthe software people as exemplary compared to the engine people. (He\nalso noted that the software people were starting to feel management\npressure to cut corners, but hadn't had to give in to it much yet.)\n\nAmong other things, the software people worked very hard to get things\nright for the major pre-flight simulations, and considered a failure\nduring those simulations to be nearly as bad as an in-flight failure.\nAs a result, the number of major-simulation failures could be counted\non one hand, and the number of in-flight failures was zero.\n\nAs Fred mentioned elsewhere, this applies only to the flight software.\nSoftware that runs experiments is typically mostly put together by the\nexperimenters, and gets nowhere near the same level of Tender Loving Care.\n(None of the experimenters could afford it.)", "Well, I'm not going to quote the message, but anyhow...\n \n Mail fraud is a FEDERAL OFFENCE! PUNNISHABLE BY TIME AND \n >>> BIG <<<\n > > > B I G < < <\n F I N E S \n ! ! ! !\n What you can do is contact the local authorities in Arizona \nwhere this scammer resides, inform them of the situation (if you have \nproof of the transaction, that would also help), and they should be able \nto take it from there.\n \n Yeah, this guy CAN get heavily penalized for this. Don't think \nthat just because you have never met he cannot be prosecuted.\n \n !!! TAKE HIM > D O W N < !!!\n \n ... hope I'm not being too foreward?...\n \n \n _________________________________________________\n Inspiration | ___ |\n comes to | \\ o baden@sys6626.bison.mb.ca |\n those who | ( ^ ) baden@inqmind.bison.mb.ca |\n seek the | /-\\ =] Baden de Bari [= |\n unknown. | |", "\n\tThis is not strickly correct. Only by incorrect application of the \nrules of language, does it seem to work.\n\n\tThe Mercedes in the first premis, and the one in the second are NOT \nthe same Mercedes. \n\n\tIn your case, \n\n\tA = B\n\tC = D\n\t\n\tA and D are NOT equal. One is a name of a person, the other the\nname of a object. You can not simply extract a word without taking the \ncontext into account. \n\n\tOf course, your case doesn't imply that A = D.\n\n\tIn his case, A does equal D.\n\n\n\tTry again...\n\n---\n\n \"One thing that relates is among Navy men that get tatoos that \n say \"Mom\", because of the love of their mom. It makes for more \n virile men.\"\n\n Bobby Mozumder ( snm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu )\n April 4, 1993", "Satan was one of God's highest ranking angels, like Uriel, Raphael,\nMichael, and Gabriel. In fact, his name was Satanel. He did challenge\nGod's authority and got kicked out of heaven. A lot of the mythology\nof Satan (he lost the -el suffix when he fell) comes from the\nBook of Enoch and is not found in the bible.\n\nRead the Book of Enoch, available thru bookstores, or get the book\ncalled \"Angels: an endangered species\" (I think).\n\n", "--------- Forwarding begins here ---------\n\nDate: Wed, 7 Apr 1993 15:39:55 -0400 (EDT)\nFrom: Women's Center \nTo: +dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/women/dlists/happyhour-announce.dl@andrew.cmu.edu\nSubject: PROGRESSIVES HAPPY HOUR\n\nEnjoy good food and interesting company at the Progressives Happy Hour,\nThursday 8 April, starting at 5:30pm at the Women's Center (located next\nto the laundromat in the Margaret Morrison Plaza). Kosher for Passover\nfood will be served. All are welcome.\n\n(Good things to drink will be there, but paper cups won't. Please be\nprogressive and bring a cup or mug with you.)\n\nCo-sponsored by the Student Government President and funded by the\nstudent activites fee.", "\n\nI can't tell if Matt is being sarcastic here or not, but to be honest, many\nautomobiles are worth far more to their owners (in $$ value and $$ investment)\nthan the people that would take them. I don't have figures on average property\ntax in the U.S. or how much of it is allocated for housing projects, inferior\npublic schools, jails, or the like, but I have a feeling that the amount the\ngovernment steals from an honest, productive citizen to breed this trash is \nsignificantly less than the value of many automobiles. And for those who will\nargue that the animals out there stealing cars and everything else (not to\nmention committing COMPLETELY senseless acts of violence, such as rape) cannot\nbe valued in terms of money because they are human beings, I submit that they\nare not human beings. Jim Callison, I think, is on the right track. And \nChintan Amin remarked earlier that we cannot blame environment for the actions\nof a single criminal. I couldn't agree more. One could trace any crime back\nto the environment/upbringing of the criminal; should we let all of them out,\nfrom pickpockets to rapists to inside traders, because what they did wasn't\ntheir fault? Where does one draw the line?\n\n$0.02", "\n\n\n\nYour doubts are unsubstantiated, have some faith in us..\n\n\n\n\nYes I agree.. Lets say I call my self a XXX. I go and shoot your family \nin cold blood. Does that mean that XXX is responsible? No. I am.\nPeople tend to associate others with color/creed/etc.. it is a form of racism.\n\n\n\n\n", "\nActuallay I don't, but on the other hand I don't support the idea of having\none newsgroup for every aspect of graphics programming as proposed by Brian,\nin his reply to my original posting.\nI would suggest a looser structure more like a comp.graphics.programmer,\ncomp.graphics.hw_and_sw\nThe reason for making as few groups as possible is for the same reason you\nsay we shouldn't spilt up, not to get to few postings every day.\nI takes to much time to browse through all postings just to find two or \nthree I'm interested in.\n\nI understand and agree when you say you want all aspects of graphics in one\nmeeting. I agree to some extension. I see news as a forum to exchange ideas,\nhelp others or to be helped. I think this is difficult to achive if there\nare so many different things in one meeting.\n\nGood evening netters|-)", "\nAny suggestions as to what a better solution might be? I realize the\noff-hand nature of the numbers I used. And I can't answer as to what\nan acceptable loss rate is. However, as I said in another post, I\ndespise the idea of supporting criminals for life. It's the economics\nof the situation that concern me most. The money spent feeding, clothing,\nhousing and taking care of people who have demonstrated that they are\nunfit to live in society could go to a number of places, all of which\nI, and probably others, would consider far more worthwhile and which\nwould enrish the lives of all Americans. Give people jobs, give the\nhomeless shelter. Any number of things.\n\nClyde\n\n", "I have several books which I really wish to sell.\n\nCalculus with Analytic Geometry by Howard Anton 3rd edition\n\nChemistry by Zumdahl\tsecond edition.\n\nActs of War-- the behavior of men in battle by Richard Holmes\n\nObserving the Nixon Years by Jonathan Schell\n\nThe Things They carried by Tim O'Brien\t\n\nShrapnel in the Heart-- Letters and remembrances from the Vietname\nMemorial by Laura Palmer\n\nThe Good War-- an oral history of world war two by Studs Terkel\n\nMake me an offer, you could contact me at koutd@hirama.hiram.edu", "\n\"I'm afraid I'm going to have to kill you. Don't worry, though; as a Loving\nChristian, I guarantee that I will regret the fact that I have to kill\nyou, although I won't regret the actual killing.\"\n\n\nFalse dichotomy.\n\n\nThat's because they weren't even attempted.\n\n\nYou want to know why it bothers me that thousands of innocent people were\nmaimed or killed by bombing at the end of WW2, when it was far from clear\nthat such bombing was necessary?\n\n\nAnd why-is-it-that-way? Who set things up to be that way?\n\n\nNo, just the ones that have oil. Or the ones that look like they might make\na success of Communism.\n\n\nI don't see that getting UN forces to East Timor is any harder than getting\nthem to Iraq.\n\n\nFine. Write to your Congressman and to President Clinton. China's status as\n\"Most Favoured Nation\" comes up for renewal in June. Point out that the US\nshouldn't be offering favourable trading terms to such a despicable regime.\n\nI doubt anything will happen. Clinton's keener on trade sanctions against\nEurope.\n\n[ Unbelievable comments about the Rodney King case deleted ]\n\n\nAny idea how many kill files you just ended up in?\n\n\nThe ends justify the means, eh?\n\n\nThe same tired old misunderstanding. Moral relativism means that there is no\n*objective* standard of morality. It doesn't mean you can't judge other\npeople's morals. Christ on a bike, how many times have we tried to hammer\nthat into your head?\n\n\nObviously not, as I am an atheist. I don't think you'd get on with Jesus,\nthough; he was a long-haired lunatic peace-nik, was he not?\n\n\nRight. Unfortunately for you, it turned out that my opinions on the matter\nwere entirely consistent in that I condemned the bombing of Dresden too.\n\nI think you're being a bit glib with your explanation of the blanket bombing\npolicy, too. You make it sound as though we were aiming for military targets\nand could only get them by destroying civilian buildings next door. As I\nunderstand it, that is not the case; we aimed deliberately at civilian\ntargets in order to cause massive damage and inspire terror amongst the\nGerman people.\n\n\nOh, come on. With wars like the Falklands fresh in people's minds, that sort\nof propaganda isn't going to fool anyone.\n\n\nYes? And what about the millions of casualties the Russians suffered? It's\nhardly surprising the US didn't lose many men in WW2, given that you turned\nup late.\n", "What is the proper way to dispose of old blessed palms?\nI`ve have a bunch that I`ve been holding onto. In addition,\nmy mom has been giving me her's. I used to give them to my\nuncle who would burn them (and leave the ashes to seep into the\nground). Should I do the same? Could I just bury them? Could\nI add them to my compost bin?\n\nThanks in advance.", "You should wear your nicest boxer shorts and bring plenty of SPF 45+ \nsunscreen. I'll grab my bathing suit, towerl and some veggie hotdogs and we \ncan have bonfire cookout!!\nDoes that sound good enough to you, Dean?\nEVERY a.a poster is invited!!!", "Hi to all.\n\nSince all of you could also be a seller as well as a buyer, I'd like to bring\nthis issue for discussion - what would be the best solution in case a deal \nbecame a lemon?\n\nAs I understand most people selling things over the net do not grant a warranty,I am in such a situation that the seller did not state whether a warranty would be granted or not and the item I received is out of order. The seller insisted\nthat it was 'in good condition' when he sent it and so would just return half ofthe amount that I paid if I send the item back to him and after he is sured it\nis bad. Is this reasonable?\n\nBasically I would like to believe the seller tells the truth. Also, I am positively to say that I've not done anything wrong which might cause the failure of \nthe thing. My assumption here is everyone is honest - so rule out the possibility that either one of the two parties or both are liars.\n\nI would like to hear your opinion - either in here or directly respond to my\ne-mail address.\n\nI know there is such a risk that you could lose money. But, how can we make it\nenjoyable to most people and not wasting the bandwidth?", "\n\nDoes that imply that people who take marriage vows but aren't sincere\nare not married?", "\n\nWe have plenty of computer labs where the computers are left on all the\ntime. I don't see any shorter lifespan than the ones we have in the\noffices which does get turned off at the end of the day. In fact, some\nof the computers in the labs have outlived some of the same ones in the\noffices. But it goes both ways so can't conclude anything.", "\n\n\n\n\n\nOkay, I see smilies, so this isn't supposed to be a serious post.\nOn the other hand, I would suppose it does has some motivation behind\nit. Apparently the idea is to poke fun at religion, but there is \npresumably some sort of reasoning behind it. As an argument, this \nstatement is worthless. Presuming the Qur'an is a perfect religious \ntext (whatever that might be) there is still plenty of room for \ndisagreement about its implications for issues far from essentials.\n\nI've already responded to the question of how a judgment might be made\nbetween two people who in fact _do_ disagree about Islam, which doesn't\npresume anything about the Qur'an other than its having sufficient\nclarity for all important disputes about the basic principles of\nIslam. This hardly constitutes a claim that no two people could have\ndisagreements about _all_ issues relevant to Islam.\n", "\n<\n<> [ ... excellent exchange deleted ... ]\n<> It seems to me the whole reason for the Second Amendment, to give\n<> the people protection from the US government by guaranteeing that the\n<> people can over through the government if necessary, is a little bit\n<> of an anachronism is this day and age. Maybe its time to re-think\n<> how this should be done and amend the constitution appropriately.\n<\n< Abraham Lincoln, First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1861: \"This\n< country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit\n< it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government,\n< they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or\n< their revolutionary right to dismember it or overthrow it.\"\n<\n< Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, spoken during floor debate\n< over the Second Amendment, I Annals of Congress at 750, 17 August\n< 1789: \"What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the\n< establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. ...\n< Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of\n< the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order\n< to raise an army upon their ruins.\"\n<\nFrom: mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington)\nMC>Organization: AI Programs, University of Georgia, Athens\nMC>Aye, there's the rub -- if you draw enough current to light an LED, th\nMC>equipment at the phone company will think you've gone off hook.\nMC>In the on-hook state you're not supposed to draw current. \n\nOk lets have some calculation here: Going by Australian standards, which I \npresume might be similar to other countries ( If not, lets have some \ninput) a phone uses 600ohm to loop a 48V line = 80mA. A standard LED \ndrains 20mA. So what is the actual loop current required for an \"off hook\" \nindication, do you know?", "---------------------------\nThe federal government has used such laws to allow mutliple charges in\norder to prevent more crimes than would nromally occur just from two people\nbeing pissed off at each other. The federal government has an interest in\nthe intent of the perpetrators in the pursuit of preventing violations of\ncivil rights. It's the way they broke the back of the Klan, by putting a\nlot of people away for a very long time for harrassing blacks specifically.\nIt is a principle that has been well recognized as constitutionally valid\nsince over 100 years ago. It has been used whenever a select group was\ngetting bashed or harrassed more than any other person would just for being\npart of a minority. It is the only way we made the defeat of the south\nstick after the Civil War. People who harrassed free blacks, when normally\nthey wouldn't find themselves harrassing just anyone walking around were\nexpeditiously tried and jailed for 5 to 8 years until nobody wanted to try\nit anymore. Now with the 14th amendment guarantee of equal protection under\nthe law, the law can use multiple crime and severe penalty involving intent\nas much as is needed to protect even one human that is a hated minority to\nsomebody. They can call out the national guard just for them, as they did\nthe school girls in Alabama during desegregation in the 1950's, and the\npresident can nationalize the state militia and turn the guns of the\nmilitia that were being used to bar blacks right around to point at the\nthousands in the crowd with an order to shoot that they would have to obey\nor face possible death by firing squad under the Uniform Code of Military\nJustice for failing to obey a direct order while under arms! And by god,\nthey did! Those southern boys turned right around an fixed bayonets! And\nthe governor was left standing and was arrested by the federal marshalls\nthat had brought the order to nationalize the guard. And that's why we need\nsuch an ability in federal jurisdiction.\n-RSW\n", "\nYes, it was Nixon who was most vocal about giving money to Russia. It\nmakes me proud to be a libertarian. It appears both conservatives and\nliberals prefer to cold war until you win, then nurse the enemy back to\nhealth for another go around.\n\nIt's like subsidizing the wealthy countries (Japan, Germany, etc.) with\nfree defense, and then trade-warring with them because of the economic\ncompetition. It's like subsidizing tobacco farmers while paying\nbureaucrats to pursuade people not to smoke.\n\nI ask myself, what law could we pass to prevent government from doing\nstupid, frivilous things with OUR money? Then I think, the Constitution\nwas supposed to do that. Could someone please tell me what legitimate\nconstitutional power the federal government is using when it takes money\nfrom my paycheck and gives it to needy countries? Seriously.\n\nRoger Collins", "\n\n\n ONLY if you weight Americans equal to SAlvadorans.", " > [A very nice article on the DSS, which I thought answered\n > David Cruz-Uribe's original queries quite well]\n\n Here are some books I have read recently that helped me not only\n prepare for a 5 week series I taught in Sunday School, but greatly\n increased my knowledge of the Qumran scrolls. [...]\n\nOne other recent book I would heartily recommend is Joseph Fitzmyer's\n_Response to 101 Questions about the Dead Sea Scrolls_ (Paulist,\n1992).\n\nFitzmyer is one of the preeminent modern NT scholars. He was also one\nof the early workers on the DSS. His book is written in a\nstraightforward Q&A that allows it to serve as a source for a great\nwealth of clearly presented basic, up-to-the-moment information about\nthe DSS.\n\n(This book is something of a companion volume to Raymond Brown's\n_Response to 101 Questions about the Dead Sea Scrolls_.)\n\nNichael", "\n\tTake a second look at \"non-toxic, non-flammable\":\n\n\t\tMACE (sold tothe public) is supposedly nontoxic.\n\t\tWhatthey do not tell you is that if you get mace directly\n\t\ton the linings of the lungs (such as a direct snort to\n\t\tthe face) above certain quantities, it reacts similarly\n\t\tto a mustard gas inhalation.\n\n\t\t\tI know: my father and grandfather were exposed\n\t\t\tto poison gas in WWI and WWII; Dad went through\n\t\t\tthe side effects of any WEAPON, including those\n\t\t\t\"non-toxic\" aerosols.\n\n\t\tWHat the label ACTUALLY means is ::\n\n\t\t\tusually, it wont kill you\n\t\t\tit may give you permanent CSS asthsma\n\t\t\tbut that's better than blowing a hole in your\n\t\t\t\thead ...\n\n\t\tALL aerosols are flammable IF YOU HAVE ENOUGH OXYGEN\n\t\tAND HIT IT WITH THE RIGHT IGNITER. SOme of the most\n\t\tnon-flammable substances known will BOOM or SEARFLAME\n\t\tif you hit it with the right combo.\n\n\n\t\tLet's take one: a trash can fire. Makes black smoke;\n\t\talready burned right? Can't go boom, right? Wrong.\n\n\t\tSuck that smoke (made up of paper that has carbonized,\n\t\tor burned about 35% of the fuel in it) into an air\n\t\tconditioning return, mix with about 5:1 air, and light\n\t\ta match. 200 feet of conduit is about the same, when\n\t\tfilled with that smoke mixture, as oh, say 200 pounds TNT\n\n\t\t\tTHAT is why the fire codes say NO OPEN CEILING\n\t\t\tTILES IN BUILDINGS. Because 3-5 stories of\n\t\t\ta building have blown OUT by \"nonflammable _smoke_\"\n\n\tSo:\n\t\tTake a little \"nonflammable aerosol\"\n\t\tMix with gasoline or kerosene fumes\n\n\t\t\tNO electricity, remeber? A bit of heating\n\t\t\ton the WACO plains? Boil water to drink\n\t\t\tsince the water was cut off?\n\n\t\tliberally mix and allow to settle for 1-4 hours\n\n\t\tFumes vent down into the bus underground, and the Davidians\n\t\tmove the children UPSTAIRS to a saferoom (they had one,\n\t\tarmor plated, remember?) to BREATH, because kids get sick\n\t\tand die from tear gas.\n\n\t\tand along comes a tracer, a spark, what have you:\n\n\t\t\teveryone burns to death.\n\nTry thinking before opening mouth: it may not have happened the\nway the Gmen say it did.", ": Marian CATHOLIC high school, outside of chicago:\n: \n: 666 south ASHLAND avenue.\n: \nActually, Satanism is technically inverted Catholicism.\n", "I would like to sell the following sci-fi books at Best Offer.\nIf you are interested, please email an offer and be sure to include\nshipping and handling. I prefer not to ship COD but if you purchase\n$25 or more, I will consider.\n\n\n\nHan Solo and the Lost Legacy\nHan Solo's Revenge\nHan Solo at Stars End\nSplinter in the Minds Eye\nThe Empire Strikes Back\nStar Wars\n\nStar Trek: The Motion Picture\nStar Trek: Wrath of Kahn\nThe Official Star Trek Trivia Book\nStar Trek Reader Vol I\nStar Trek Reader Vol II These are the book form of the \nStar Trek Reader Vol III Original TV Series \nStar Trek Reader Vol IV \n\nDune\nDune Messiah\nChildren of Dune\nGod Emperor of Dune\n\nAltered States\nAlien\nClose Encounters of the Third Kind\nDragonSlayer\n\nThe Mists of Avalon\nThe Compleat Book of Sowrds\nThe Lost Swords\n\n2001: A Space Odyssey\n2010: Odyssey II\n2061: Odyssey III\n\nBarlowes Complete Guide to ExtraTresstials\n\nAgain, best offer and don't be shy.\n\nThanks\n", "So I finally decided to risk this upgrade, FAQ in hand I've gathered the\npieces together. The only problem is that I haven't been able to find\nanyone who's even heard of thermal tape/glue (which is what the FAQ\nrecommends for attaching the heat sink) I am just tempted to use duct\ntape here.... anyone hae any ideas for me for attaching the heat sink to\nthe processor?? much thanks.", "Archive-name: cryptography-faq/part02\nLast-modified: 1993/4/15\n\n\nFAQ for sci.crypt, part 2: Net Etiquette\n\nThis is the second of ten parts of the sci.crypt FAQ. The parts are\nmostly independent, but you should read the first part before the rest.\nWe don't have the time to send out missing parts by mail, so don't ask.\nNotes such as ``[KAH67]'' refer to the reference list in the last part.\n\nThe sections of this FAQ are available via anonymous FTP to rtfm.mit.edu \nas /pub/usenet/news.answers/cryptography-faq/part[xx]. The Cryptography \nFAQ is posted to the newsgroups sci.crypt, sci.answers, and news.answers \nevery 21 days.\n\n\nContents:\n\n* What groups are around? What's a FAQ? Who am I? Why am I here?\n* Do political discussions belong in sci.crypt?\n* How do I present a new encryption scheme in sci.crypt?\n\n\n* What groups are around? What's a FAQ? Who am I? Why am I here?\n\n Read news.announce.newusers and news.answers for a few weeks. Always\n make sure to read a newsgroup for some time before you post to it.\n You'll be amazed how often the same question can be asked in the same\n newsgroup. After a month you'll have a much better sense of what the\n readers want to see.\n\n* Do political discussions belong in sci.crypt?\n\n No. In fact some newsgroups (notably misc.legal.computing) were\n created exactly so that political questions like ``Should RSA be\n patented?'' don't get in the way of technical discussions. Many\n sci.crypt readers also read misc.legal.computing, comp.org.eff.talk,\n comp.patents, sci.math, comp.compression, et al.; for the benefit of\n people who don't care about those other topics, try to put your\n postings in the right group.\n\n Questions about microfilm and smuggling and other non-cryptographic\n ``spy stuff'' don't belong in sci.crypt either.\n\n* How do I present a new encryption scheme in sci.crypt?\n\n ``I just came up with this neat method of encryption. Here's some\n ciphertext: FHDSIJOYW^&%$*#@OGBUJHKFSYUIRE. Is it strong?'' Without a\n doubt questions like this are the most annoying traffic on sci.crypt.\n\n If you have come up with an encryption scheme, providing some\n ciphertext from it is not adequate. Nobody has ever been impressed by\n random gibberish. Any new algorithm should be secure even if the\n opponent knows the full algorithm (including how any message key is\n distributed) and only the private key is kept secret. There are some\n systematic and unsystematic ways to take reasonably long ciphertexts\n and decrypt them even without prior knowledge of the algorithm, but\n this is a time-consuming and possibly fruitless exercise which most\n sci.crypt readers won't bother with.\n\n So what do you do if you have a new encryption scheme? First of all,\n find out if it's really new. Look through this FAQ for references and\n related methods. Familiarize yourself with the literature and the\n introductory textbooks.\n\n When you can appreciate how your cryptosystem fits into the world at\n large, try to break it yourself! You shouldn't waste the time of tens\n of thousands of readers asking a question which you could have easily\n answered on your own.\n\n If you really think your system is secure, and you want to get some\n reassurance from experts, you might try posting full details of your\n system, including working code and a solid theoretical explanation, to\n sci.crypt. (Keep in mind that the export of cryptography is regulated\n in some areas.)\n\n If you're lucky an expert might take some interest in what you posted.\n You can encourage this by offering cash rewards---for instance, noted\n cryptographer Ralph Merkle is offering $1000 to anyone who can break\n Snefru-4---but there are no guarantees. If you don't have enough\n experience, then most likely any experts who look at your system will\n be able to find a flaw. If this happens, it's your responsibility to\n consider the flaw and learn from it, rather than just add one more\n layer of complication and come back for another round.\n\n A different way to get your cryptosystem reviewed is to have the NSA\n look at it. A full discussion of this procedure is outside the scope\n of this FAQ.", "I would like to get your opinions on this: when exactly does an engaged\ncouple become \"married\" in God's eyes? Some say that if the two have\npublically announced their plans to marry, have made their vows to God, and\nare unswervingly committed to one another (I realize this is a subjective\nqualifier) they are married/joined in God's sight.\n\nSuppose they are unable to get before the altar right at the current time\nbecause of purely logistical reasons beyond their control. What do you\nthink about this?\n\nPost or e-mail me with general responses. If you need clarification as to\nwhat I am asking, please e-mail.\n\nThanks and God bless!", "\nWasn't it Tricky Dick who issued stern warnings to Bush & Clinton\nnot to 'Lose Russia'? (a la 'Who lost China?')\n\n", "\n\nYeah sure. Maybe thermal GUNSIGHTS on the armored vehicles. When\ndiscussing military hardware and weapons, the media generally looks like\na ufology convention.\n\n\nCS is merely the garden variety military teargas. As far as it being\n\"humane and harmless\", I've seen teenage boys knock 200lb. drill\nsergeants flat getting away from it....\n\nWhat do you expect when idiots and criminals confirm paranoids in their\nparanoia...?\n", "[deleted]\n\n This is a pet peeve of mine. I wish companies would put power switches on the\n front of the equipment! If my Apple monitor had the switch on the front, I\n would happily power it off at night. Almost every piece of computer equipment\n I own/use has the switch on the back (including external hard drives and\n modems--why?). I hope front-mounted switches become the norm, and soon.\n\n Rich", "\n\n\n\nCareful. Making statements about how solid state is (generally) more\nreliable than analog will get you a nasty follow-up from Tommy Mac or\nPat. Wait a minute; you *are* Pat. Pleased to see that you're not\nsuffering from the bugaboos of a small mind. ;-)\n\n-- \n\"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live\n in the real world.\" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden", "\nWelcome to the conservative judiciary.\n\n\nI think Scalia's point was that you get one chance. If new information\ncomes out later, tough. If the conviced want justice, they have to hope\nthe governor is feeling charitable.\n\nThere's a guy on death row in Texas that was denied a new trial, dispite\nevidence of his inocents.\n\n\nIt got swept away in the Reagan Revolution...\n", "Stuff deleted\n\nAll five schools of law (to the best of my knowledge) support the\ndeath sentence for apostasy WHEN it is accompanied by open, persistent,\nand aggravated hostility to Islam. Otherwise\nI agree, there is no legal support for punishment of disbelief.\nThe Qur'an makes it clear that belief is a matter of conscience. Public\nor private disavowal of Islam or conversion to another faith is not\npunishable (there are some jurists who have gone against this\ntrend and insisted that apostasy is punishable (even by death) - but\nhistorically they are the exception.\n\nCursing and Insulting the Prophets falls under the category of \"Shatim\".\n", "\n\nI vote for turning them off at night. THe stress of off/on is a little \nharmful, so don't turn it off, then back on an hour later, etc, but\nturning them off for 4-5 hours or overnight is a good idea.\n\nThe electricy consumption will go down if you turn them off overnight, along\nwith heat. ", "A Unix tool of cryptographic significance is available\nfor anonymous ftp.\n\n\"agrep 2.0.4\" -- a fast approximate pattern-matching tool\n\nsource code project available from:\n\ncs.arizona.edu \n\nin directory \"agrep\"\n\nagrep is a very fast fuzzy search tool with a tremendous\nnumber of powerful search options. The one most obviously\napplicable to cryptography (key selection) is to be able to\nspecify the \"similarity\" of matches in the data.\n\nFor example say you make up a password/phrase of \"qimwe7l\".\nOf course you rightly suspect that this key itself is not\nin any dictionary or word list. But how *close* is it to\nen entry that could be varied by some \"crack\" program to\nbrute-force search for it?\n\nYou use agrep to find out. Looking with argument for none,\none or two errors, no matches. Good so far. But \n\nagrep -3 \"qimwe7l\" bigwordandphraselist\n\nfinds that the pattern \"qimwe7l\" is too close to the\npattern \"imsel\" (part of \"himself\" and a host of others),\nto be of any cryptographic value as a key.\n\nAn error of level two corresponds to a simple transposition of\nletters like \"teh\" for \"the\". A minimally acceptable password\nwould have to pass as *least* level 3 in order not immediately\nruled-out as even a remote possibility of being a good password.\n(In real cryptographic use, my personal passphrases clear at\n*least* level 8 on my rather large [>80 meg] word and phrase lists.)\n\n\nAnd for searching for key words in human-typed data (lots o'\ntypos) the tool is unexcelled. For example, For example,\nsay I want to find out what people think about Gibson's\nSF book \"Neuromancer\" in the huge SF-Lover's archives.\nEven with an error distance specification as small as\nof \"1\" I will find all those people who think the title\nwas \"Necromancer\" or other common typos. Why miss anything?\n\nAlso, the program can look for up to 30,000 patterns IN PARALLEL\nat Boyer-Moore (sublinear) speeds. Great for a NSA wannabe\nto look for your name, terrorists names, special Tagalog or\nreligious words, etc. in the news or e-mail spool directories.\n\nYou can even search for ciphertext by using, say, 30,000\nrandom three-byte combinations and eliminate all texts that\ndon't score the X chi-square 'birthday' hits on message size Y.\n\nYou think some crypto-terrorist is try to foil you by changing\nthe pattern on you? No problem. Try agrep -p NSA to find\nNSA, National Security Agency, NSecAg, No Such Agency,\nNational Scrabble Association, N*S*A, etc.\n\nYou can also specify \"fixed\" areas: looking for license\nplate XYZ123 when you know that the letters are correct,\nyou might say:\n\nagrep -2 123 licenseplatedatabase\n\nwill find all plates starting with XYZ with up to two errors\n(addition, substitution, deletion) in the number area. You can\nalso \"weight\" the relative \"cost\" for substiutions, additions,\nor deletion errors. For example, when searching DNA patterns\nfor a particular protein combination, you might know that\nsome kinds of damage cause the \"A\" nucelotide to drop out more\nthan other errors... you could adjust for this bias by setting\n-Dc where you set the \"deletion cost\" to count as \"c\" errors.\n\nA steganographic use (I even used \"agrep -2 \"eograp\" E\"\njust now to find the correct spelling!) would be to intentionally\nintroduce errors of a certain type and magnitude into a plaintext\nand then later recover the orginal it via an agrep pipe. Lots of\npossibilities here when only outlaws can have ciphertext...\n\nAlso with agrep's powerful extraction options it makes it easy\nto abstract the \"hits\" into a useful form. For example,\n\nagrep -d \"^From\" 'PGP;(passphrase|Zimmerman|NSA)'\n\nsays output the entire mail record, delimited by 'From'\nthat contains 'PGP' and contains either 'passphrase',\n'Zimmerman', or 'NSA'.\n\nAnd agrep has been measured an order-of-magnitude faster\nthan the second-best similarity tool publicly available.\n\nAs usual, I will be glad to e-mail the source and docs\nto those who reqest them by e-mail IF they cannot do\nan anonymous FTP.\n\nGet this now.\nIt is too powerful to stay in the hands of the NSA.\n\n\nGrady Ward, vendor to the NSA (and proud of it)\n", " ^^^^^^\n\nPardon my ignorance of foreign currency and exchange rates, but what is a \nquid, how does it relate to the British Pound (or whatever it's called) \nand what is that in American Dollars??? :-)\n\nThanks!", "\n\n\n\n\n\nNothing but errors and omissions here!\n", "\n\n\n\nI've already written a 5000 char commentary (from my MCI MAIL account, so I\ncan't be accused of being a \"hacker\".)", "\n\n\tWe only need to ask the question: what did the founding fathers \nconsider cruel and unusual punishment?\n\n\tHanging? Hanging there slowing being strangled would be very \npainful, both physically and psychologicall, I imagine.\n\n\tFiring squad ? [ note: not a clean way to die back in those \ndays ], etc. \n\n\tAll would be considered cruel under your definition.\n\tAll were allowed under the constitution by the founding fathers.\n\n--- \n\n \" Whatever promises that have been made can than be broken. \"", "\nTo answer your irrelevant question, yes a person of color is human,\nbut I still don't know what you mean by human being and you have\nmerely begged the question without responding. By trying to inject\nthe notion of race into the discussion, you muddy the waters without\nadding any insight whatever. The same parallel question could\nbe \"Is a polydactyl person a human being?\" You still have not\nanswered what you mean by human being. Please do so.\n\n\nYou won't answer the question and instead drag in irrelevancies.\nIf you want a definition of human being that does not depend on\nthe vagaries of law, but holds solid whatever the law may rule,\nprovide it for me.\n\n\nMore irrelevancies. As Larry Margolis pointed out, the law\nhas made special exceptions in order to include fetuses, but does\nnot follow your version of human being. And as he pointed out,\nbrain death is not a means of determining who has the rights\nof the living, but rather who has died. There is a significant\ndifference.\n\nWhat I am wondering now is, has your argument so failed you that\nyou feel it necessary to drag out irrelevancies and leave the\nthread you started? You got answers to your questions when\nyou began baiting me, if you recall, after you had made some\nridiculous remarks about Adrienne Regard and, having been corrected,\nchanged the subject with your remarks about having a discussion\nof substance. If you really wanted a discussion of substance,\nwhy then do you disregard logic and substance in order to toss\nsilly accussations, e.g. \"It really doesn't matter to you...\"\nIf it matters to you, then why not define human being and seek\nsome substance? You're not going to convince a logical person\nof the rightness of your position unless you apply some logic\nand show some meaning to your words.\n\n\nAs others point out, one is sacrificed for the other depending on\nwhich has the better chance at survival. Again, your analogy\nfails. Not precedence, but possession makes a difference here.\nA woman's womb is indisputably her own. Also, I see you ignore\nmy statement that you would grant rights to a fetus that would\nnot be granted a born human being. Was that due to its inconvenience?\n\n\nIs it? Please cite a precedent and the basis of the ruling.\n\n\nYou simply assert things without any support. Your analogy is\nnot accurate and your assertions are unsupported. Try this on\nfor size. It is not murder for one Siamese twin to kill\nthe other in the womb. There. We now have equal arguments.\nBut the idea is illogical. For one Siamese twin to kill the\nother in the womb would likely be to kill itself as well. The\nsystems are dependent on each other for life. I'm still struggling\nto see anything analagous here and failing to do so.\n\n\nYour argument is from Fantasy Island. Your comparison is a total\nfailure, as I have demonstrated already, and has no basis in\nreality, neither legally nor medically. And for you to assert\nthat it is not a perfect comparison because of the impossible,\nthat of coercion or oppression, is ridiculous. As I said,\nyou give the analogy too little credit for failure. On the one\nhand you start this by saying you want to take a real, rather than\na hypothetical, situation, then you fly off into Siamese twins\nmurdering one another in the womb or coercing or oppressing each\nother in the womb when the reality of the situation you describe\nin now way matches your version. As I said before, decisions\nare made regarding which twin lives and dies in situations where\nthey cannot both survive. And, furthermore, as I have already said,\nthere is a difference between an equal claim to organs and a claim\nthat is unequal. You seem to be asserting that a fetus has a\nclaim on a woman's womb. When the fetus is born, what happens to\nits claim? And by what reason do you assert its claim?\n\n\nYou haven't answered the question. The situations are not analagous.\n\n\nAgain you avoid the question. Dependence can be transferred, and\nit is not as slow as you seem to think.\n\n\nYes, and I'd hate to have been the one to tell Dr Gunn's children that\nhe was murdered by a religious, \"pro-life\" fanatic. Please do\ntry to stay relevant.\n\n\nClever comeback. I congratulate you on the readiness of your wit.\n\nWhat happened to that claim to bodily organs where life is at stake?\nWhy does this parent now have an indisputable right to his or her\nkidney when previously the parent did not, by your standards? What\nis different about the two situations? I see I have to spell this\nout for you since the meaning was too subtle for you. In the one\ncase you do not recognize a difference between a fetus and a born\nchild (you ask why a born child cannot be abandoned but a fetus\ncan), and in this case you recognize a significant difference\nbetween the fetus and born child where the lives of the two are at\nstake. You can't have it both ways. Action and inaction are\nirrelevant to the principle, but you are wrong about the inaction\nanyway. Ask any of the numerous women who post here and have\nborne children how inactive their pregnancy was. To have a\nhealthy, live child, a woman does more than hang out, eat as\nshe chooses, plays volleyball like she always did, drinks at\nparties with her friends, etc. She behaves very differently, and\nthe provision of her resources to a fetus may be no more voluntary\nthan the beating of her heart, but it is far from inactive.", "\n Stuff deleted\n I sure hope you got the cost of a replacement panel out of the owner. Here if\nthe owner should seem reluctant, a stop by the local SPCA (preferably with your\nfoot/leg all swollen up) to file a viscious dog report would do the trick.\n\n-g.", "\n\nYou have yet to answer any or all of my questions and challenges to your \nstatements. By this am I to assume that you are unable to do so? Or just\nplain unwilling due to your lack of proof/intelligence? So what next? I \nprove you wrong so you just put me in your killfile?\n\nYour lack of reasoned response seems to be a typical Clayton response.\n\n\n", "\nIt's come to this, has it? Defending Al Gore by comparing him to Dan Quayle?\nI'd say that about says it all... back to the pit with ye, back to alt.fan.\ndan-quayle! Begone!\n\n------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ \n\nPaul Havemann (Internet: paul@hsh.com)", "\n\nOh no! Someone is provided useful information AND mentioned that they\nmade money in the field. Don't they know that usenet is reserved for\nuninformed speculation by people trying to sell their personal stuff\n(from houses to dead pcs) at a huge markup/trying to unload stuff they\nbought from their company at just under retail, and other\n\"non-commercial\" activities.\n\n\nThe net is not \"supposed\" to be a dumping ground for free ads, but\nreserving it for tripe doesn't seem to be a significant improvement.\n\n\nSo? Either they target it well enough to pay for it, in other words,\nthey manage to send it to people who want the stuff (in which case it\nis junk only for the \"rest\" and the transaction costs are borne\nappropriately in this case) or they go bankrupt. Seems fair to me.\n\n\nYou could hold your breath. You could kill offending messages as\nthey come onto your machine and refuse to send them any further,\nbut not until you turn blue.\n\n-andy", "\nNot anymore! Recent archaeological inspection of the site presents pretty\ncompelling evidence that the \"mass suicide\" at Masada never occured. This\nevidence was so compelling tha the Tzahal no long hold their secret ceremony\nat the fortress.\n\n", "\n No. The LAPD officers were tried first by the State of California\non charges of police brutality, and secondly by the Federal Government\non depriving RK of his civil rights - a different crime.\n\n The scenario I outline is more similar to the Oliver North trial.\nOllie confessed to treason (aiding an enemy of the US) during Senate\nhearings, under immunity. The team which was later to prosecute him on\ncriminal charges had to sequester itself from all reports of ON's\nimmunized testimony. ON's lawyer brought up the probability that at\nleast someone on the team had heard about the Senate testimony, and it\nwas a strong factor against the prosecution, which is one of the\nreasons this ON is still walking around free today.", "\nSTOP IT!!!! ENOUGH!!! I'm out of there! I mean, I'm a relatively sane person. \nGod knows I'm weak and will forgive me. But I'm not stupid enough to stay in\nthis place any longer. I WANT OUT!!!\n\n\nYeah, and at least one person ran back in. SOunds like a personal choice to me.\nReligious fanaticsm, and a beleive that dying in the 'defense' of your beliefs,\nis probably at the core of what happened in Waco. We in the west tend to\ndisregard fanaticsm of the type displayed by many Moslem fundamentalist groups\nwho see nothing wrong with dying for their beliefs/convictions. I suspect that\nthis same type of fanaticsm was displayed by the BDs. BUt we'll probably never\nknow...", "# # \"labor\" is a tough one. Labor is defined, economically, as the efforts,\n# # both mental and physical, of humans. Capital is defined as intermediate\n# # goods used to create other goods and services. Now, if a slave is considered\n# # an intermediate good, then the slave has now been dehumanized and is \n# # simply a machine. Not good for the anti-slave (i.e. pro-human rights) \n# # argument. So, slaves are humans, and they produce labor. \n# \n# Sorry. The question of defining slave \"labor\" is no \"tough(er)\" than \n# defining the \"labor\" of a horse, an ox, or any other livestock. Both\n# legally and economically in a slave-economy, \"slaves are (NOT) humans,\" \n# they are livestock.\n\nCan you provide some evidence that the slave states regarded slaves as\nnot humans? They were \"outside our society\" and similar phrases that\nbasically meant that they didn't have to recognized as having the same\nrights as a free person, but they were never considered \"not human\" to\nmy knowledge.\n\n# Like a horse that pulls a plow, a slave's \"labor\" is the return on the\n# capital required to purchase and feed him. The parallel is so obvious\n# I'm not sure how you missed it. After all, its was the \"liberty\" to \n# use their \"property\" as they saw fit that motivated Southern planters\n# to emphasize the importance of \"states' rights.\"\n\nIf that were the case, the slave states would not have passed so many\nlaws that restricted the freedom of slave owners to do as they wished\nwith their property. Examples: laws prohibiting manumission without\nlegislative grant; laws prohibiting teaching slaves to read & write.\n\n# #Craig.\n# Steve Hendricks | DOMAIN: steveh@thor.ISC-BR.COM ", "So it looks like I'm going to have to put a couple of bikes in storage\nfor a few months, starting several months from now, and I'm already\ncontemplating how to do it so they're as easy to get going again as\npossible. I have everything under control, I think, besides the\nbatteries. I know that if I buy a $50.00 Battery Tender for each one\nand leave them plugged in the whole time the bikes are in storage,\nthey'll be fine. But I'm not sure that's necessary. I've never heard\nanyone discussing this idea, so maybe there's some reason why it isn't\nso great. But maybe someone can tell me.\n\nWould it be a mistake to fully charge the batteries, drain the\nelectrolyte into separate containers (one for each battery), seal the\ncontainer, close up the batteries, and leave them that way? Then it\nwould seem that when the bikes come out of storage, I could put the\nelectrolyte back in the batteries and they should still be fully\ncharged. What's wrong with this?\n\nOn a related, but different note for you Bay Area Denizens, wasn't\nthere someone who had a bunch of spare EDTA a few months back? Who was\nit? Is there still any of it left?\n\nThanks for any and all help!", "I have a certificate for one round-trip airfares to either Orlando,\nLas Vegas and Reno/Lake Tahoe.\nExpiration date is one year from now.\n\nThe maximum retail value, depending on time and location, is estimated\nat $2000 for all three locations, including accommodation for 3 days\nand 2 nights at a leading hotel. I am asking for $1800 or best offer.\n\nPurchase of tickets for a single location is possible.\n\nFor more information, call Goh at\n\n(415) 497-0663\n\nor send mail to\n\nkmgoh@leland.stanford.edu", "\nThat was a reasonable insertion, so folks would know \"Random\" hadn't made an \nerror reposting your message. No one was flaming you for the typo.\n\n\nI have heard such claims from disgruntled former members. Could be true, who \nknows. No proof. And what does all this have to do with the BATF and FBI \nactions?\n\nNo, you missed his.\n\n\nThis from someone who does not have a return address in his header:\n----\nNewsgroups: talk.politics.guns\nFrom: ()\nSubject: Re: CLINTON JOINS LIST OF GENOCIDAL SOCIALIST LEADERS\nOrganization: Trinity College, Hartford, CT.\nLines: 65\n----\nWhereas David Pope (random) did, so a reasonable newsreader could simply hit \nreply to his comments, but not to yours. Get an education in Internet use, \"my \nman\".\n\n\nJim\n--\njmd@handheld.com", "-- \n*** Nothing beats skiing, if you want to have real fun during holidays. ***\n*** Rob de Winter Philips Research, IST/IT, Building WL-1 ***\n*** P.O. Box 80000, 5600 JA Eindhoven. The Netherlands ***\n*** Tel: +31 40 743621 E-mail: dewinter@prl.philips.nl ***\n", "\n\n\tThe newspaper itself is almost certainly copyrighted in its\nentirety. Newspapers generally employ legal staffs which make sure\nthey get permission to use a copyrighted image or text. Did you\ndo the same?\n-- \n-John", "\n\n\nI have not seen this book, though I have had several people quote it in \nsupport of some tendentious assertions they were making, so I have become \ncurious about it.\n\nI don't want to malign this Hislop fellow, whoever he may be, as I have only \nheard the arguments at second hand, but both of the arguments seemed to turn \non false etymology that SEEMED to be derived from Hislop.\n\nI would be interested in knowing more about these things. \n\nThe first one claimed that the word \"church\" was derived from the Greek \n\"cyclos\", and that it was therefore related to the worship of \"Circe\".\n\nI don't know if Hislop is the source of this assertion, but it does seem to \nbe based on false etymology.\n\nThe second claimed an etymological relationship between \"Ishtar\" and \n\"Easter\", which seemed to be even more fanciful and far-fetched than some \nof the wilder notions of the British Israelites.\n\nRegarding the latter, as far as I have been able to find out, \"Easter\" is \nderived from the old English name for April - \"Eosturmonath\". The Venerable \nBede mentioned that this was associated with a goddess called \"Eostre\", but \napart from that reference I have not been able to find out anything more \nabout her. It also seems that the term \"Easter\" is only used by the English \nand those they evangelized. The Germans, for example, also use the term \n\"Ostern\", but Germany was evangelized by English missionaries.\n\nSo I would be interested in any evidence of \"Easter\" being used for Pascha \nby people who do not have any kind of connection with the ancient Anglo-\nSaxons and their offshoots. Such evidence might support the claims of those \nwho appear to derive the theory from Hislop.\n\n\n\n", "Enclosed are the rules, guidelines and related information for the 10th\nInternational Obfuscated C Code Contest. (This is part 1 of a 2 part\nshar file).\n\nEnjoy!\n\nchongo /\\oo/\\ \nLarry Bassel\n\n=-=\n\n#!/bin/sh\n# This is a shell archive (shar 3.32)\n# made 03/01/1993 12:01 UTC by chongo@toad.com\n# Source directory /tmp\n#\n# existing files WILL be overwritten\n#\n# This shar contains:\n# length mode name\n# ------ ---------- ------------------------------------------\n# 8585 -r--r--r-- rules\n# 25375 -r--r--r-- guidelines\n# 33961 -r--r--r-- mkentry.c\n# 6257 -r--r--r-- obfuscate.info\n#\n# ============= rules ==============\necho \"x - extracting rules (Text)\"\nsed 's/^X//' << 'SHAR_EOF' > rules &&\nX10th International Obfuscated C Code Contest Rules\nX\nXCopyright (c) Landon Curt Noll & Larry Bassel, 1993. \nXAll Rights Reserved. Permission for personal, education or non-profit use is \nXgranted provided this this copyright and notice are included in its entirety \nXand remains unaltered. All other uses must receive prior permission in writing \nXfrom both Landon Curt Noll and Larry Bassel.\nX\nX Obfuscate: tr.v. -cated, -cating, -cates. 1. a. To render obscure.\nX\t\tb. To darken. 2. To confuse: his emotions obfuscated his\nX\t\tjudgment. [LLat. obfuscare, to darken : ob(intensive) +\nX\t\tLat. fuscare, to darken < fuscus, dark.] -obfuscation n.\nX\t\tobfuscatory adj.\nX\nX\nXGOALS OF THE CONTEST:\nX\nX * To write the most Obscure/Obfuscated C program under the rules below.\nX * To show the importance of programming style, in an ironic way.\nX * To stress C compilers with unusual code.\nX * To illustrate some of the subtleties of the C language.\nX * To provide a safe forum for poor C code. :-)\nX\nX\nXRULES:\nX\nX To help us with the volume of entries, we ask that you follow these rules:\nX\nX 1) Your entry must be a complete program.\nX\nX 2) Your entry must be <= 3217 bytes in length. The number of characters\nX excluding whitespace (tab, space, newline), and excluding any ; { or }\nX followed by either whitespace or end of file, must be <= 1536.\nX\nX 3) Your entry must be submitted in the following format:\nX\nX---entry---\nXrule:\t1993\nXfix:\ty or n (n => this is a new entry, y => this replaces an older entry)\nXtitle:\ttitle of entry \t\t (see comments below)\nXentry:\tEntry number from 0 to 7 inclusive (your 1st entry should by 0)\nXdate:\tDate/time of submission in UTC\t (see comments below)\nXhost:\tMachine(s) and OS(s) under which your entry was tested\nX\tUse tab indented lines if needed\nX---remark---\nX Place remarks about this entry in this section. It would be helpful if\nX you were to indent your remarks with 4 spaces, though it is not a\nX requirement. Also, if possible, try to avoid going beyond the 79th\nX column. Blank lines are permitted.\nX---author---\nXname:\tyour name\nXorg:\tSchool/Company/Organization\nXaddr:\tpostal address\nX\tuse tab indented lines to continue\nX\tdon't forget to include the country\nXemail: Email address from a well known site or registered domain.\nX If you give several forms, list them on separate tab indented lines.\nXanon:\ty or n (y => remain anonymous, n => ok to publish this info)\nX---info---\nXIf your program needs an info file, place a uuencoded copy of it in\nXthis section. In the case of multiple info files, use multiple info\nXsections. If your entry does not need a info file, skip this section.\nX---build---\nXPlace a uuencoded copy of the command(s) used to compile/build your program\nXin this section. It must uudecode into a file named 'build'. The resulting\nXfile must be 255 bytes or less.\nX---program---\nXPlace a uuencoded copy of your program in this section. It must uudecode\nXinto a file named is 'prog.c'. The resulting file must follow rule #2.\nX---end---\nX\nX Regarding the above format:\nX\nX\t* The title must match the expression: [a-zA-Z0-9_=][a-zA-Z0-9_=+-]*\nX\t and must be 1 to 12 characters in length.\nX\nX\t It is suggested, but not required, that the title should\nX\t incorporate your username; in the case of multiple authors,\nX\t consider using parts of the usernames of the authors.\nX\nX\t* The date in the ---entry--- section should be given with respect\nX\t to UTC. The format of the date should be as returned by asctime() \nX\t using the C locale. (see guidelines for more info)\nX\nX\t* You may correct/revise a previously submitted entry by sending\nX\t it to the contest email address. Be sure to set 'fix' in the \nX\t ---entry--- section to 'n'. The corrected entry must use the same \nX\t title and entry number as submittion that is being corrected. Be \nX\t sure that you note the resubmittion in the ---remark--- as well.\nX\nX\t* With the exception of the header, all text outside of the above \nX\t format may be ignored by the judges. If you need tell the judges\nX\t something, put it in the ---remark--- section, or send a separate\nX\t Email message to the judges.\nX\nX\t* Information from the ---author--- section will be published unless \nX\t 'y' was given to the respective author's 'anon' line.\nX\nX\t* To credit multiple authors, include an ---author--- section for\nX\t each author. Each should start with ---author--- line, and\nX\t should be found between the ---entry--- and ---build--- sections.\nX\nX\t* The entry's remarks should include:\nX\t - what this program does\nX\t - how to run the program (sample args or input)\nX\t - special compile or execution instructions, if any\nX\t - special filename requirements (see rule 4 and 5)\nX\t - information about any ---data--- files\nX\t - why you think the program is obfuscated\nX\t - note if this entry is a re-submission of a previous entry.\nX\t - any other remarks (humorous or otherwise)\nX\nX\t* Do not rot13 your entry's remarks. You may suggest that certain\nX\t portions of your remarks be rot13ed if your entry wins an award.\nX\nX * Info files should be used only to supplement your entry. They \nX\t should not be required to exist.\nX\nX\t If your entry does not need an info file, skip the ---info---\nX\t section. If your entry needs multiple info files, use multiple \nX\t ---info--- sections, one per info file. You should describe\nX\t each info file in the ---remark--- section.\nX\nX 4) If your entry is selected as a winner, it will be modified as follows:\nX\nX\t 'build' is incorporated into a makefile, and 'build' is removed\nX\t 'prog.c' is renamed to your entry's title, followed by an optional\nX\t digit, followed by '.c'\nX\t your entry is compiled into a file with the name of your entry's\nX\t title, possibly followed by a digit\nX\nX If your entry requires that a build file exist, state so in your\nX entry's remark section. The makefile will be arranged to execute a\nX build shell script containing the 'build' information. The name of\nX this build shell script will be your entry's title, possibly followed\nX by a digit, followed by '.sh'.\nX\nX If needed, your entry's remarks should indicate how your entry must\nX be changed in order to deal with the new filenames.\nX\nX 5) The build file, the source and the resulting executable should be\nX treated as read-only files. If your entry needs to modify these files,\nX it should make and modify a copy of the appropriate file. If this\nX occurs, state so in your entry's remarks.\nX\nX 6) Entries that cannot be compiled by an ANSI C compiler will be rejected.\nX Use of common C (K&R + extensions) is permitted, as long as it does not \nX cause compile errors for ANSI C compilers.\nX\nX 7) The program must be of original work. All programs must be in the\nX public domain. All copyrighted programs will be rejected.\nX\nX 8) Entries must be received prior to 07-May-93 0:00 UTC. (UTC is\nX essentially equivalent to Greenwich Mean Time) Email your entries to:\nX\nX\t\t...!{apple,pyramid,sun,uunet}!hoptoad!obfuscate\nX\t\tobfuscate@toad.com\nX\nX We request that your message use the subject 'ioccc entry'.\nX\nX If possible, we request that you hold off on Emailing your entries\nX until 1-Mar-93 0:00 UTC. Early entries will be accepted, however.\nX We will attempt to email a confirmation to the the first author for\nX all entries received after 1-Mar-93 0:00 UTC.\nX\nX 9) Each person may submit up to 8 entries per contest year. Each entry\nX must be sent in a separate Email letter.\nX\nX 10) Entries requiring human interaction to be built are not allowed. \nX Compiling an entry produce a file (or files) which may be executed.\nX\nX 11) Programs that require special privileges (setuid, setgid, super-user,\nX special owner or group) are not allowed.\nX \nX\nXFOR MORE INFORMATION:\nX\nX The Judging will be done by Landon Noll and Larry Bassel. Please send\nX questions or comments (but not entries) about the contest, to:\nX\nX\t...!{apple,pyramid,sun,uunet}!hoptoad!judges\nX\tjudges@toad.com\nX\nX The rules and the guidelines may (and often do) change from year to\nX year. You should be sure you have the current rules and guidelines\nX prior to submitting entries. To obtain all 3 of them, send Email\nX to the address above and use the subject 'send rules'.\nX\nX One may also obtain them via anonymous ftp from:\nX\nX\thost: ftp.uu.net\t(137.39.1.9)\nX\tuser: anonymous\nX\tpass: yourname@yourhost\nX\tdir: /pub/ioccc\nX\nX\nXchongo /\\cc/\\ \thoptoad!chongo\nXLarry Bassel\t\t\t \t{uunet,ucbvax,cbosgd}|sun!lab\nSHAR_EOF\nchmod 0444 rules ||\necho \"restore of rules failed\"\nset `wc -c rules`;Wc_c=$1\nif test \"$Wc_c\" != \"8585\"; then\n\techo original size 8585, current size $Wc_c\nfi\n# ============= guidelines ==============\necho \"x - extracting guidelines (Text)\"\nsed 's/^X//' << 'SHAR_EOF' > guidelines &&\nX10th International Obfuscated C Code Contest Guidelines, Hints and Comments\nX\nXCopyright (c) Landon Curt Noll & Larry Bassel, 1993. \nXAll Rights Reserved. Permission for personal, education or non-profit use is \nXgranted provided this this copyright and notice are included in its entirety \nXand remains unaltered. All other uses must receive prior permission in writing \nXfrom both Landon Curt Noll and Larry Bassel.\nX\nXABOUT THIS FILE:\nX\nX This file is intended to help people who wish to submit entries to\nX the International Obfuscated C Code Contest (IOCCC for short).\nX\nX This is not the IOCCC rules, though it does contain comments about\nX them. The guidelines should be viewed as hints and suggestions.\nX Entries that violate the guidelines but remain within the rules are\nX allowed. Even so, you are safer if you remain within the guidelines.\nX\nX You should read the current IOCCC rules, prior to submitting entries.\nX The rules are typically sent out with these guidelines.\nX\nX\nXWHAT IS NEW IN 1993:\nX\nX The entry format is better (for us anyway). The program mkentry.c\nX has been updated. See ENTRY FORMAT.\nX\nX We will reject entries that cannot be compiled using an ANSI C\nX compiler. Certain old Obfuscation hacks that cause ANSI C compilers \nX fits are no longer permitted. Some of the new issues deal with \nX non-integral array types, variable number of arguments, C preprocessor \nX directives and the exit() function. See OUR LIKES AND DISLIKES.\nX\nX\nXHINTS AND SUGGESTIONS:\nX\nX You are encouraged to examine the winners of previous contests. See\nX FOR MORE INFORMATION for details on how to get previous winners.\nX\nX Keep in mind that rules change from year to year, so some winning entries\nX may not be valid entries this year. What was unique and novel one year\nX might be 'old' the next year.\nX\nX An entry is usually examined in a number of ways. We typically apply\nX a number of tests to an entry:\nX\nX\t* look at the original source\nX\t* convert ANSI tri-graphs to ASCII\nX\t* C pre-process the source ignoring '#include' lines\nX\t* C pre-process the source ignoring '#define' and '#include' lines\nX\t* run it through a C beautifier\nX\t* examine the algorithm\nX\t* lint it\nX\t* compile it\nX\t* execute it\nX\nX You should consider how your entry looks in each of the above tests.\nX You should ask yourself if your entry remains obscure after it has been\nX 'cleaned up' by the C pre-processor and a C beautifier.\nX\nX Your entry need not do well under all, or in most tests. In certain\nX cases, a test is not important. Entries that compete for the\nX 'strangest/most creative source layout' need not do as well as\nX others in terms of their algorithm. On the other hand, given\nX two such entries, we are more inclined to pick the entry that\nX does something interesting when you run it.\nX\nX We try to avoid limiting creativity in our rules. As such, we leave\nX the contest open for creative rule interpretation. As in real life\nX programming, interpreting a requirements document or a customer request\nX is important. For this reason, we often award 'worst abuse of the\nX rules' to an entry that illustrates this point in an ironic way.\nX\nX If you do plan to abuse the rules, we suggest that you let us know\nX in the remarks section. Please note that an invitation to abuse\nX is not an invitation to break. We are strict when it comes to the\nX 3217 byte size limit. Also, abusing the entry format tends to\nX annoy more than amuse.\nX\nX We do realize that there are holes in the rules, and invite entries\nX to attempt to exploit them. We will award 'worst abuse of the rules'\nX and then plug the hole next year. Even so, we will attempt to use\nX the smallest plug needed, if not smaller. :-)\nX\nX Check out your program and be sure that it works. We sometimes make\nX the effort to debug an entry that has a slight problem, particularly\nX in or near the final round. On the other hand, we have seen some\nX of the best entries fall down because they didn't work.\nX\nX We tend to look down on a prime number printer, that claims that\nX 16 is a prime number. If you do have a bug, you are better off\nX documenting it. Noting \"this entry sometimes prints the 4th power\nX of a prime by mistake\" would save the above entry. And sometimes,\nX a strange bug/feature can even help the entry! Of course, a correctly\nX working entry is best.\nX\nX\nXOUR LIKES AND DISLIKES:\nX\nX Doing masses of #defines to obscure the source has become 'old'. We\nX tend to 'see thru' masses of #defines due to our pre-processor tests\nX that we apply. Simply abusing #defines or -Dfoo=bar won't go as far\nX as a program that is more well rounded in confusion.\nX\nX Many ANSI C compilers dislike the following code, and so do we:\nX\nX\t#define d define\nX\t#d foo\t\t <-- don't expect this to turn into #define foo\nX\nX\tint i;\nX\tj;\t\t <-- don't use such implicit type declaration\nX\tint k;\nX\nX We suggest that you compile your entry with an ANSI C compiler. If you \nX must use non-ANSI C, such as K&R C, you must avoid areas that result in \nX compile/link errors for ANSI C compilers.\nX\nX Unfortunately, ANSI C requires array indexes to be of integral type.\nX Thus, the following classical obfuscation hacks are no longer allowed:\nX\nX\tint i;\nX\tchar *c;\nX\ti[c];\t\t <--- use c[i] instead\nX\t(i+3)[\"string\"]; <--- use \"string\"[i+3] instead\nX\nX If your entry uses functions that have a variable number of\nX arguments, be careful. Systems implement va_list as a wide variety\nX of ways. Because of this, a number of operations using va_list are\nX not portable and must not be used:\nX\nX\t* assigning a non-va_list variable to/from a va_list variable\nX\t* casting a non-va_list variable into/from a va_list variable\nX\t* passing a va_list variable to a function expecting a non-va_list arg\nX\t* passing a non-va_list variable to a function expecting a va_list arg\nX\t* performing arithmetic on va_list variables\nX\t* using va_list as a structure or union\nX\nX In particular, do not treat va_list variables as if they were a char **'s.\nX\nX Avoid using , use instead.\nX\nX If you use C preprocessor directives (#define, #if, #ifdef, ...),\nX the leading '#' must be the first character on a line. While some\nX C preprocessors allow whitespace the leading '#', many do not.\nX\nX Because the exit() function returns void on some systems, entries\nX must not assume that it returns an int.\nX\nX Small programs are best when they are short, obscure and concise.\nX While such programs are not as complex as other winners, they do\nX serve a useful purpose. They are often the only program that people\nX attempt to completely understand. For this reason, we look for\nX programs that are compact, and are instructional.\nX\nX One line programs should be short one line programs, say around 80\nX bytes long. Getting close to 160 bytes is a bit too long in our opinion.\nX\nX We tend to dislike programs that:\nX\nX\t* are very hardware specific\nX\t* are very OS or Un*x version specific\nX\t (index/strchr differences are ok, but socket/streams specific\nX\t code is likely not to be)\nX\t* dump core or have compiler warnings\nX\t (it is ok only if you warn us in the 'remark' header item)\nX\t* won't compile under both BSD or SYS V Un*x\nX\t* abusing the build file to get around the size limit\nX\t* obfuscate by excessive use of ANSI tri-graphs\nX\t* are longer than they need to be\nX\t* are similar to previous winners\nX\t* are identical to previous losers :-)\nX\nX Unless you are cramped for space, or unless you are entering the\nX 'best one liner' category, we suggest that you format your program\nX in a more creative way than simply forming excessively long lines.\nX\nX The build file should not be used to try and get around the size\nX limit. It is one thing to make use of a several -D's to help out,\nX but it is quite another to use 200+ bytes of -D's in order to\nX try and squeeze the source under the size limit. You should feel\nX free to make use of the build file space, but you are better off\nX if you show some amount of restraint.\nX\nX We allowed whitespace, and in certain cases ; { or } do not impact\nX your program size (up to a certain point), because we want to get\nX away from source that is simply a compact blob of characters.\nX\nX Given two versions of the same program, one that is a compact blob\nX of code, and the other that is formatted more like a typical C\nX program, we tend to favor the second version. Of course, a third\nX version of the same program that is formatted in an interesting\nX and/or obfuscated way, would definitely win over the first two!\nX\nX We suggest that you avoid trying for the 'smallest self-replicating'\nX program. We are amazed at the many different sizes that claim\nX to be the smallest. There is nothing wrong with self-replicating\nX programs. In fact, a number of winners have been self-replicating.\nX You might want to avoid the claim of 'smallest', lest we (or others)\nX know of a smaller one!\nX\nX X client entries should be as portable as possible. Entries that\nX adapt to a wide collection of environments will be favored. Don't\nX depend on a particular type of display. For example, don't depend\nX on color or a given size. Don't require backing store.\nX\nX X client entries should avoid using X related libraries and\nX software that is not in wide spread use. We ask that such X client\nX entries restrict themselves to only the low level Xlib and the\nX Athena widget set (libX11.a, libXaw.a, libXmu.a and libXt.a).\nX Don't use M*tif, Xv*ew, or OpenL*ok toolkits, since not everyone\nX has them. Avoid depending on a particular window manager. Not\nX everyone has X11r5, and some people are stuck back in X11r4 (or\nX earlier), so try to target X11r5 without requiring X11r5. Better\nX yet, try to make your entry run on all version 11 X Window Systems.\nX\nX X client entries should not to depend on particular items on\nX .Xdefaults. If you must do so, be sure to note the required lines\nX in the ---remark--- section.\nX\nX We like programs that:\nX\nX\t* are as concise and small as they need to be\nX\t* do something at least quasi-interesting\nX\t* pass lint without complaint (not a requirement, but it is nice)\nX\t* are portable\nX\t* are unique or novel in their obfuscation style\nX\t* MAKE USE OF A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF OBFUSCATION\nX\t* make us laugh and/or throw up :-)\nX\nX Some types of programs can't excel in some areas. Of course, your\nX program doesn't have to excel in all areas, but doing well in several\nX areas really does help.\nX\nX We freely admit that interesting, creative or humorous comments in\nX the ---remark--- section helps your chance of winning. If you had to\nX read of many twisted entries, you too would enjoy a good laugh or two.\nX We think the readers of the contest winners do as well.\nX\nX Be creative!\nX\nX\nXENTRY FORMAT:\nX\nX In order to help us process the many entries, we must request your\nX assistance by formatting your entries in a certain way. This format,\nX in addition, allows us to quickly separate information about the\nX author from the program itself. (see JUDGING PROCESS)\nX\nX We have provided the program, mkentry, as an example of how to\nX format entries. You should be aware of the following warning that\nX is found in mkentry.c:\nX\nX\tThis program attempts to implement the IOCCC rules. Every\nX\tattempt has been made to make sure that this program produces\nX\tan entry that conforms to the contest rules. In all cases,\nX\twhere this program differs from the contest rules, the\nX\tcontest rules will be used. Be sure to check with the\nX\tcontest rules before submitting an entry.\nX\nX You are not required to use mkentry. It is convenient, however,\nX as it attempts to uuencode the needed files, and attempt to check\nX the entry against the size rules.\nX\nX If you have any suggestions, comments, fixes or complaints about\nX the mkentry.c program, please send Email to the judges. (see below)\nX\nX The following is a sample entry:\nX\nX---entry---\nXrule:\t1993\nXfix:\tn\nXtitle:\tchonglab\nXentry:\t0\nXdate:\tMon Mar 1 08:45:20 1993\nXhost:\tUn*x v6, pdp11/45\nX\t2.9BSD, pdp11/70\nX---remark---\nX This is a non-obfuscated obfuscated C program.\nX\nX It is likely not to win a prize. But what do you expect from\nX a short example!\nX---author---\nXname:\tLandon Curt Noll\nXorg:\tIOCCC Judging Group\nXaddr:\tToad Hall\nX\tPO Box 170608\nX\tSan Francisco, California\nX\t94117-0608\nX\tUSA\nXemail:\tchongo@toad.com\nXanon:\tn\nX---author---\nXname:\tLarry Bassel\nXorg:\tIOCCC Judging Group\nXaddr:\tToad Hall\nX\tPO Box 170608\nX\tSan Francisco, California\nX\t94117-0608\nX\tUSA\nXemail:\thoptoad!sun!lab\nX\tlab@sun.com\nXanon:\tn\nX---info---\nXbegin 444 info.file\nXM0V]P>7)I9VAT(\"AC*2!,86YD;VX@0W5R=\"!.;VQL+\"`Q.3DS+@I!;&P@4FEG\nXM:'1S(%)E65A2!A8W1U86QL>2!D96-O9&5D('1H:7,@9FEL92X*22!W;VYD97(@:&]W(&UA\nX9;GD@=VEL;\"!D;R!I=\"!T:&ES('EE87(_\"@``\nX`\nXend\nX---build---\nXbegin 444 build\nX28V,@<')O9RYC(\"UO('!R;V<*\nX`\nXend\nX---program---\nXbegin 444 prog.c\nXM;6%I;B@I\"GL*(VEF(&1E9FEN960H05]214=)4U1%4D5$7U9/5$527TE.7U-5\nXM3DY95D%,15]#04Q)1D]23DE!7U5302D*(\"`@('!R:6YT9B@B5F]T92!,86YD\nXM;VX@3F]L;\"!F;W(@4W5N;GEV86QE($-I='D@0V]U;F-I;\"!S96%T(\",Q+EQN\nX:(BD[\"B-E;F1I9@H@(\"`@97AI=\"@P*3L*?0H`\nX`\nXend\nX---end---\nX\nX Typically the build file should assume that the source is prog.c\nX and will compile into prog. If an entry wins, we will rename\nX its source and binary to avoid filename collision. By tradition,\nX we use the name of the entry's title, followed by an optional\nX digit in case of name conflicts.\nX\nX If the above entry somehow won the 'least likely to win' award,\nX we would use chonglab.c and chonglab.\nX\nX If your entry depends on, or requires that your build, source\nX and/or binary files be a particular name, please say so in the\nX ---remark--- section. If this case applies, it would be be helpful\nX if you did one of the following:\nX\nX\t* Tell us how to change the filename(s) in your entry.\nX\nX\t* Have the build file make copies of the files. For example:\nX\nX\t\tcc prog.c -o special_name\t\tneed special binary\nX\nX\t or rm -f special_src.c\t\t\tneed special source\nX\t\tcp prog.c special_src.c\nX\t\tcc special_src.c -o special_name\nX\nX\t or rm -f special_build\t\t\tneed special build\nX\t\ttail +4 build > special_build\nX\t\tsh < special_build\nX\nX\t* Assume that we will use the entry title. Send us a version of \nX\t your build/program files that uses the name convention. You \nX\t should uuencode these files in ---data--- sections.\nX\nX If your entry needs to modify its source, info or binary files,\nX please say so in the ---remark--- section. You should try to avoid\nX touching your original build, source and binary files. You should\nX arrange to make copies of the files you intend to modify. This\nX will allow people to re-generate your entry from scratch.\nX\nX Remember that your entry may be built without a build file. We\nX typically incorporate the build lines into a Makefile. If the\nX build file must exist, say so in the ---remark--- section.\nX\nX If your entry needs special info files, you should uuencode them\nX into ---info--- sections. In the case of multiple info files,\nX use multiple ---info--- sections. If no info files are needed,\nX then skip the ---info--- section.\nX\nX Info files are intended to be input, or detailed information that\nX does not fit well into the ---remark--- section. For example, an\nX entry that implements a compiler might want to provide some sample\nX programs for the user to compile. An entry might want to include a\nX lengthy design document, that might not be appropriate for a\nX 'hints' file.\nX\nX Info files should be used only to supplement your entry. For\nX example, info files may provide sample input or detailed\nX information about your entry. Because they are supplemental,\nX the entry should not require them exist.\nX\nX In some cases, your info files might be renamed to avoid name\nX conflicts. If info files should not be renamed for some reason,\nX say so in the ---remark--- section.\nX\nX Info files must uudecode into the current directory. If they\nX absolutely must be renamed, or moved into a sub-directory, say\nX so in the ---remark--- section.\nX\nX When submitting multiple entries, be sure that each entry has\nX a unique entry number from 0 to 7. Your first entry should\nX have entry number 0.\nX\nX With the exception of the header, all text outside of the entry\nX format may be ignored. That is, don't place text outside of the\nX entry and expect the judges to see it. (Our decoding tools aren't\nX AI progs!) If you need tell the the something, put it in the \nX ---remark--- section, or send a Email to the judges at:\nX\nX\t...!{apple,pyramid,sun,uunet}!hoptoad!judges\t(not the address for\nX\tjudges@toad.com\t\t\t\t\t submitting entries)\nX \nX The date should be given with respect to UTC. (Some systems refer \nX to this as GMT or GMT0) The format of the date should be that as \nX returned by asctime() in the C locale. An example of such a string is:\nX\nX\tThr Apr 01 00:47:00 1993\nX\nX This format is similar to the output of the date(1) command. The\nX string does not include the timezone name before the year. On many \nX systems, one of the following command will produce a similar string:\nX\nX\tdate -u \"+%a %h %d %T 19%y\"\nX\tdate -u | sed -e 's/... \\(19[0-9][0-9]\\)$/\\1/'\nX\tsh -c 'TZ=UTC date | sed -e \"s/... \\(19[0-9][0-9]\\)$/\\1/\"'\nX\tsh -c 'TZ=GMT date | sed -e \"s/... \\(19[0-9][0-9]\\)$/\\1/\"'\nX\tsh -c 'TZ=GMT0 date | sed -e \"s/... \\(19[0-9][0-9]\\)$/\\1/\"'\nX\nX You are allowed to update/fix/revise your entry. To do so, set\nX the 'fix' line in the ---entry--- section to 'y' instead of 'n'.\nX Be sure that the resubmittion uses the same title and entry number\nX as well, as these are used to determine which entry is to be\nX replaced.\nX\nX\nXJUDGING PROCESS:\nX\nX Entries are judged by Larry Bassel and Landon Curt Noll.\nX\nX Entries are unpacked into individual directories. The Email message\nX is unpacked into individual files, each containing:\nX\nX\t---entry--- section\nX\tall ---author--- sections\nX\tall ---info--- sections\nX\t---build--- section\nX\t---program--- section\nX\tany other text, including the Email message headers\nX\nX Prior to judging, the 'any other text' file is scanned to be sure\nX it does not contain useful information (or in case the entry was\nX malformed and did not unpack correctly). Information from the\nX ---author--- sections are not read until the judging process is\nX complete, and then only from entries that have won an award.\nX\nX The above process helps keep us biased for/against any one particular\nX individual. We are usually kept in the dark as much as you are\nX until the final awards are given. We like the surprise of finding\nX out in the end, who won and where they were from.\nX\nX We attempt to keep all entries anonymous, unless they win an award.\nX Because the main 'prize' of winning is being announced, we make all\nX attempts to send non-winners into oblivion. We remove all non-winning\nX files, and shred all related paper. By tradition, we do not even\nX reveal the number of entries that we received. (for the curious,\nX we do indicate the volume of paper consumed when presenting the IOCCC\nX winners at talks)\nX\nX After the Usenix announcement, we attempt to send Email to the\nX authors of the winning entries. One reason we do this is to give\nX the authors a chance to comment on the way we have presented their\nX entry. They are given the chance to correct mistakes, typos. We\nX often accept their suggestions/comments about our remarks as well.\nX This is done prior to posting the winners to the wide world.\nX\nX Judging consists of a number of elimination rounds. During a round,\nX the collection of entries are divided into two roughly equal piles;\nX the pile that advances on to the next round, and the pile that does\nX not. We also re-examine the entries that were eliminated in the\nX previous round. Thus, an entry gets at least two readings.\nX\nX A reading consists of a number of actions:\nX\nX\t* reading the ---entry--- section\nX\t* reading the uudecoded ---build--- section\nX\t* reading the uudecoded ---program--- section\nX\t* reading the uudecoded ---info--- section(s), if any\nX\t* passing the source thru the C pre-processor\nX\t shipping over any #include files\nX\t* performing a number of C beautify/cleanup edits on the source\nX\t* passing the beautified source thru the C pre-processor\nX\t shipping over any #include files\nX\nX In later rounds, other actions are performed:\nX\nX\t* linting the source\nX\t* compiling/building the source\nX\t* running the program\nX\t* performing misc tests on the source and binary\nX\nX Until we reduce the stack of entries down to about 25 entries, entries\nX are judged on an individual basis. An entry is set aside because it\nX does not, in our opinion, meet the standard established by the round.\nX When the number of entries thins to about 25 entries, we begin to form\nX award categories. Entries begin to compete with each other for awards.\nX An entry often will compete in several categories.\nX\nX The actual award category list will vary depending on the types of entries\nX we receive. A typical category list might be:\nX\nX\t* best small one line program\nX\t* best small program\nX\t* strangest/most creative source layout\nX\t* most useful obfuscated program\nX\t* best game that is obfuscated\nX\t* most creatively obfuscated program\nX\t* most deceptive C code\nX\t* best X client (see OUR LIKES AND DISLIKES)\nX\t* best abuse of ANSI C\nX\t* worst abuse of the rules\nX\t* \nX\nX We do not limit ourselves to this list. For example, a few entries are so\nX good/bad that they are declared winners at the start of the final round.\nX We will invent awards categories for them, if necessary.\nX\nX In the final round process, we perform the difficult tasks of\nX reducing the remaining entries (typically about 25) down to 8 or 10\nX winners. Often we are confident that the entries that make it into\nX the final round are definitely better than the ones that do not\nX make it. The selection of the winners out of the final round, is\nX less clear cut.\nX\nX Sometimes a final round entry good enough to win, but is beat out\nX by a similar, but slightly better entry. For this reason, it is\nX sometimes worthwhile to re-enter an improved version of an entry \nX that failed to win in a previous year. This assumes, of course, \nX that the entry is worth improving in the first place!\nX\nX More often that not, we select a small entry (usually one line), a\nX strange/creative layout entry, and an entry that abuses the contest\nX rules in some way.\nX\nX In the end, we traditionally pick one entry as 'best'. Sometimes such\nX an entry simply far exceeds any of the other entry. More often, the\nX 'best' is picked because it does well in a number of categories.\nX\nX\nXANNOUNCEMENT OF WINNERS:\nX\nX The first announcement, occurs at a Summer Usenix conference. By tradition,\nX this is done during the latter part of the UUNET/IOCCC BOF, just prior to\nX the Berkeley BSD, and BSDI BOF.\nX\nX Winning entries will be posted in late June to the following groups:\nX\nX\t comp.lang.c\t\t comp.unix.wizards\talt.sources\nX\nX In addition, pointers to these postings are posted to the following\nX\nX\t comp.sources.d\t alt.sources.d\t\tmisc.misc\nX\t comp.sources.misc\t comp.windows.x\nX\nX Winning entries will be deposited into the uunet archives. See\nX below for details.\nX\nX Often, winning entries are published in selected magazines. Winners \nX have appeared in books (\"The New Hackers Dictionary\") and on T-Shirts.\nX\nX Last, but not least, winners receive international fame and flames! :-)\nX\nX\nXFOR MORE INFORMATION:\nX\nX You may contact the judges by sending Email to the following address:\nX\nX\t...!{apple,pyramid,sun,uunet}!hoptoad!judges\t(not the address for\nX\tjudges@toad.com\t\t\t\t\t submitting entries)\nX\nX Questions and comments about the contest are welcome.\nX\nX One may obtain a copy of the current rules, guidelines or mkentry\nX program. To obtain all 3 of them, send Email to the address above \nX and use the subject 'send rules'.\nX\nX One may also obtain the above items, we well as winners of previous\nX contests, via anonymous ftp from:\nX\nX\thost: ftp.uu.net\t(137.39.1.9)\nX\tuser: anonymous\nX\tpass: yourname@yourhost\nX\tdir: pub/ioccc\nX\nX Often, contest rules, guidelines and winners are available from\nX archive sites. Check comp.sources.unix archives, for example.\nX You may also request previous winners by Email, using the judges\nX Email address, though we ask that you do this as a last resort.\nX\nX\nXchongo /\\cc/\\ \thoptoad!chongo\nXLarry Bassel\t\t\t \t{uunet,ucbvax,cbosgd}|sun!lab\nSHAR_EOF\nchmod 0444 guidelines ||\necho \"restore of guidelines failed\"\nset `wc -c guidelines`;Wc_c=$1\nif test \"$Wc_c\" != \"25375\"; then\n\techo original size 25375, current size $Wc_c\nfi\necho \"End of part 1, continue with part 2\"\nexit 0", "\nIt's there.....", "\n\nMicrowaves don't work very well with no electricity Mr Engineer.\n\n", "\nBecause much of the public aren't even aware of the NAMES of informative\npublications. Look at the 'wealth' of material on the typical newsstand.\nUnless the person is working in some kind of technical environment, with\nthe usual trade journals, all they ever see is the media (note: media\nin this context is the popular media - TV, radio, daily newspapers, and\nsuch publications as Time, Newsweek, and all that). And they all say\npretty much the same thing. I see most of them being in the range of\ncenter-left to far Left, and generally supportive of pie-in-sky\nwe-will-take- care-of-you-think-for-you-cradle-to-grave. There seems\nto be an air of arrogance that the individual is not capable of\nunderstanding major issues so the media doesn't bother to inform them\n(as with Clipper, for example) or tells the people how to interpret\nevents in others. What is lost sight of is that the people are not good\nat understanding things because they are not TOLD accurate information\nabout them. It is a lot to expect of the people for them to be\nclarirvoyant. For example, I would have been unaware of Clipper had\nI not picked it up on USENET. How much of the population has USENET,\nlet alone Internet access?\n\nFor access to better publications, the person has to spend time digging.\nMany folks, especially who work long hours, have families, etc., do not\nhave TIME to go digging, and many are not (yet) aware things are wrong,\nso are not motivated to dig. Not saying its right, just saying that is\nthe way things are. People aren't upset about things when they aren't\nTOLD. And the less than objective media is a major contributer to the\nproblem.\n\nAnd then compound that with an attitude of arrogance in the civil service\n(bureaucrats, politicians) that act as if the person without political\nconnections, or deep pockets (potential contributer) should have few if\nany rights, being a resource to be used by those in control for their\npolticial or financial gain. Some Law Enforcement agencies act as if\nthey regard the common person with a rather intense degree of contempt,\npeons that are supposed to do what they are TOLD, and get very nasty\nwhen someone questions them. The media pundits/editors, etc tend to\nfall into those with privilege, and tend to not be upset by the current\nstate of affairs. The fellow in DC, who shot the swimmer in his Jacuzzi\nfor daring to swim in it, with an ILLEGALLY owned gun (violating the law\nhe pushed to be foisted on everyone else), ends up walking where a less\nwell-connected person would have been crucified. A typical example of\none standard for 'us', a much more restrictive standard for 'other folk'.\n\nPerhaps I am not real eloquent in expressing this, but the solution\nsure as hell is NOT to make it HARDER for people to find out what is\ngoing on, or dismiss their concerns because one happens to be in a position\nwhere one feels they are exempt or insulated. Such as that hypocrite of\na journalist in DC described above. One notices that these less-than\ncomplimentary points about that double-standard was NOT covered in the\nmedia. I feel the reason was it dovetailed with their political views\non the subject, and it involved a 'brother' journalist.\n\nIsn't it time for our 'objective' media, the MAIN SOURCE of info for the\naverage person, to start being what they claim to be, instead of spin\ndoctors for the Statist elements?\n\n\n", ": \n: It would seem that a society with a \"failed\" government would be an ideal\n: setting for libertarian ideals to be implemented. Now why do you suppose\n: that never seems to occur?...\n \nAdvances in freedom have been made in the past. The \"divine right of\nking\" concept was questioned at one time and may have used the same\nargument, that it hadn't come about before. But our ancestors had the\ncourage to throw off the old system that said that one man ruling many\nwas necessary to have a decent, wholesome society. In the 1800s the \nconcept of slavery was questioned. Our ancestors had the courage to\nquestion a practice that had existed for thousands of years. Was\nthe idea that one man owning another necessary to have a decent, \nwholesome society? Now libertarians question the necessity of\nmajoritarianism. Is it necessary that many people rule over many\nothers to have a decent, wholesome society?", "General question: Since the world was discovered to be\nround, the definition of Saturday is, if not ambiguous,\nat least arbitrary. How would someone answer this?\n\nAlso, when the calendar was changed (Gregorian to Julian?)\nwas the day of the week changed or just the date? Once again\nthis points to the arbitrariness of the days.\n\nChris Mussack", "In marc@mit.edu (Marc Horowitz\n\n\nI have also been in contact with Mitch about this. I believe\nhim when he says he didn't ask to be on the \"clipper\" list.\n\nHe also forwarded the traffic he had recieved through that list to\nme which will be placed at some ftp site.\n\nHowever, the first alias on the \"clipper list\" was csspab which was\nanother mailing list. It basically contained the addresses for\nstaffers and board members of the NIST security board. Several of\nthese people had their accounts within the dockmaster domain.\n\nThese are the people we might wish to FOIA...\n\n/harry", "being gay and Christianity are not compatible should \n\nI would absolutly love to have the time and energy to do so. The\nproblem is to be totally fair I would have to go throught this type of\nsearch on every issue I belive in. I don't have the time, resources,\nor ability to do what you ask. Maybe you should pray that God gives\nme the opportunity instead of simply discrediting me because I have\nnot been able to talk to every gay christian.", "\nthis is an interesting point. some people are not really buying the coverage,\nthey are buying 'peace of mind', marketing folks love selling that. i suggest\nthat people *choose* to not engage their minds in peaceless worry rather than\nbuying that 'peace of mind'.", "In <1993Apr20.004119.6119@cnsvax.uwec.edu> nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye) \n\n\nWhy? How? Might makes right? How can they force their morality on me? Why \ncan't I do what I want? Who are they to decide? What if I disagree? \n\nGood point, but it is being immoral in our opinion. We don't let them choose,\nwe make the decision that their actions are wrong for them.\n\n For someone to lay claim to an alternative\n\nI admit to lean toward the idea of an innate moral sense, but have little basis\nfor it as of yet. How far can such a concept be extended?\n\n and\n\nDo you mean that we could say it would be wrong for us to do such a thing but \nnot him. After all, he was behaving morally in his own eyes and doing what he\nchose. On what basis do we condemn other societies besides, here's the buzz \nwords, on the idea that there are some actions wrong for all humans in all \nsocieties?\n\n Holding that morality is subjective does not mean\n\nWhy not? Do we have to be objective suddenly?\n\nMAC\n--\n****************************************************************\n Michael A. Cobb\n \"...and I won't raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois\n class to pay for my programs.\" Champaign-Urbana\n -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu", "I have some articles available on the Church and gay people, from\na pro-gay viewpoint, which might interest some of the people \nparticipating in this thread. Please email me if you would like\nto have me send them to you (warning, about 70k worth of material.\nMake sure you have mailbox and/or disk space available.)\n\nThere are no short answers to the questions we've been seeing here\n(\"how do you explain these verses?\", \"How do you justify your actions?\")\nIf you've been asking and you really want an idea of the other people's\nthinking, I encourage you to do some serious reading. \n-- \n\n", "Jeffrey L. Cook sez;\n\nLazlo Nibble sez;\n\nActually, paving ground glass over Lichtenstein wouldn't demonstrate the\nstrength of Western Capitalism, since it's strength depends on use of\nthe mind and materials in the fulfillment of needs and desires. Mind you,\nI'm not saying *no-one* would benefit from glassed-over land, but I don't\nthink anyone would actually pay for it, unlike the (potential) billsats.\n\nI don't quite follow you on the part about someone exposing their genitals\nat parties, but I got a chuckle from it anyway. And I thought I had some\nstrange friends :-)\n\n-Tommy Mac\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTom McWilliams 517-355-2178 wk \\ They communicated with the communists,\n18084tm@ibm.cl.msu.edu 336-9591 hm \\ and pacified the pacifists. -TimBuk3", "We have an copy of the book, new, not read. $20 plus S/H. DC if you can\npickup. (The book has over 1100 pages and is quite heavy.)\n\nFeng", "Available for Weekly/bi-weekly/weekend Rental :\n\nA brand new chalet in a private resort community located in the heart\nof the Pocono Mountains. The chalet has 3 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms and\nfeatures full carpeting, cathedral ceiling in living/dining room, an\noverlooking loft, stone fireplace, wraparound deck, country kitchen\nwith all appliances and many other features too numerous to list them\nall. Its custom designed and built and tastefully furnished for the\ncomfort of 8 adults.\n\nThe community has 24 hour security and offers 2 large lakes, 4 sandy\nbeaches, 2 swimming pools, 9 tennis courts, many picnic areas,\n4 playgrounds, miniature golf, trout stream/lake fishing, team softball,\nshuffleboard, ice skating/tobagun run, teen dances, club house etc. etc.\n\nThere are many recreational facilities within easy reach of the\nvacation home. Ski resorts, luxury hotels with nitely entertaiment,\nPocono international raceway, golf courses, parks, gamelands,\nwhitewater rafting, horseback riding, scenic trails, waterfalls,\ntrain rides, historical places, all kinds of restaurants,\nfactory outlet malls, tourist attractions, just to name a few.\n\nThis is an ideal place for a family/group vacation or a weekend\ngetaway. There is no traffic congestion and air or water pollution\nand its only 2 hours from New York, Northern New Jersey and\nPhiladelphia.\n\nFor further information call :", "\nI have a cheap solar charger that I keep in my car. I purchased it via\nsome mail order catalog when the 4 year old battery in my Oldsmobile would\nrun down during Summer when I was riding my bike more than driving my car.\nKnowing I'd be selling the car in a year or so, I purchased the charger.\nBelieve it or not, the thing worked. The battery held a charge and\nenergetically started the car, many times after 4 or 5 weeks of just\nsitting.\n\nEventually I had to purchase a new battery anyway because the Winter sun\nwasn't strong enough due to its low angle.\n\nI think I paid $29 or $30 for the charger. There are more powerful, more\nexpensive ones, but I purchased the cheapest one I could find.\n\nI've never used it on the bike because I have an E-Z Charger on it and\nkeep it plugged in all the time the bike is garaged.", "Thanks for the Update.", ": Does anyone out there have any info on the up and coming fall comdex '93? I was\n: asked by one of my peers to get any info that might be available. Or, could\n: anyone point me in the right direction? Any help would be appreciated.\n\n\tIt's in Las Vegas (as always) between November 16th and 20th.\n \n\tFor more information contact: The Interface Group\n\t\t\t\t 300 First Avenue\n\t\t\t\t Needham, MA 02194-2722\n\n\tSorry, no phone number available. Consult directory service\n\tin Massachusetts for the number (617, 508 or 413).\n\n\t-- Willy", "On one of the morning shows (I think is was the Today Show), David Koresh's\nlawyer was interviewed. During that interview he flipped through some letters\nthat David Koresh wrote. On one of letters was written in Hebrew (near the\nbottom of the page):\n\n koresh adonai", "\nAdvanced Kirlian Photography (try this at home, too)\n\n1. Get a camera\n2. Have your subject face you with his/her back to the sun.\n3. Take photo\n4. Observe the glow behind their silhouetted image on the photo\n5. Invent crackpot theory to explain the effect\n", "#\n# I've gotten very few posts on this group in the last couple days. (I\n# recently added it to my feed list.) Is it just me, or is this group\n# near death?\n#\n\nSeen from the mailing list side, I'm getting about the right amount of\ntraffic.\n\nPatrick L. Mahan\n\n--- TGV Window Washer ------------------------------- Mahan@TGV.COM ---------\n\nWaking a person unnecessarily should not be considered - Lazarus Long\na capital crime. For a first offense, that is From the Notebooks of\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t Lazarus Long\n\nPatrick L. Mahan\n\n--- TGV Window Washer ------------------------------- Mahan@TGV.COM ---------", "\n\n\nconner peripherals has a 1-800 number with a touch-tone /voice response\ndata bank giving all the info.\n\nif you call 1-800 directory assisatnce (1-800-555-1212) and ask for the\nphone number of \"conner peripherals,\" you should get what you need.", "\n\n\nWell they don't export anywhere near 50% of their GNP. Mexico's perhaps\nbut not their own. They actually export around the 9-10% mark. Similar\nto most developed countries actually. Australia exports a larger share\nof GNP as does the United States (14% I think off hand. Always likely to\nbe out by a factor of 12 or more though) This would be immediately obvious\nif you thought about it.\n\n\nIt is their import routes that count. They can do without exports but\nthey couldn't live without imports for any longer than six months if that.\n\n\nToo true! But one that is unstable and hence a source of serious worry.\n\nJoseph Askew\n", "\nVell, this is perfectly normal behaviour Vor a Vogon, you know?", "Even more interesting: the SMTP server at csrc.ncsl.nist.gov no longer\n\trecognizes the 'expn' and 'vrfy' commands...\n\n\t telnet csrc.ncsl.nist.gov smtp\n\t Trying 129.6.54.11...\n\t Connected to csrc.ncsl.nist.gov.\n\t Escape character is '^]'.\n\t 220 first.org sendmail 4.1/NIST ready at Tue, 20 Apr 93 17:01:34 EDT\n\t expn clipper\n\t 500 Command unrecognized\n\n\tSeems like sombody didn't like your snooping around, Marc.\n\nOr mine. Or the dozen or so other people who probably had the same idea :-)\n\nSo does this rush to shut it down imply that some of the names on that\nlist *are* heavy-duty spooks? :-)))", "\nActually, they generally claim that (b) their particular interpretation of\nscripture/revelation *is* this objective morality. That there are two\nconflicting versions of this objective morality does tell us something about\n(a). It tells us at least one fake objective morality exists.\n\nThe next logical step is to deduce that any given religion's objective\nmorality could be the fake one. So caveat emptor.\n\n\nmathew", "Josip,\n\nplease, don't be offended at this question: Who are the \"Muslims\" in the\nBosnian context? i know that a moslem/muslim is a believer in Islam. Islam \nis a religion and it is practised in many parts of the world. But it is not\n, yes definitely not, an ethinic group. ok! so, these Bosnian Muslims, who\nare they? to which ethnic group do they belong? what language(s) do they\nspeak? do they have a different language from that of the Serbs or Croats? \nthe way the western press use the word 'muslim' in this Bosnian debacle has \nkept me wondering when the meaning of muslim/moslem i knew from childhood was \nchanged in the dictionary. this is just a question. no flames intended!", "\nExecute the juvi on the grounds of the reformatory, required attendendence\nby the rest of the inmates, as soon as possible after the incident and a\nquick sure trial. I am quite serious. Cause and effect. Nothing else\nwill ever make a dent.\n\n\nMe neither.\n\n", "#>So instead of calling it interest on deposits, you call it *returns on investements*\n#>and instead of calling loans you call it *investing in business* (that is in other words\n#>floating stocks in your company). \n#\n#No, interest is different from a return on an investment. For one\n#thing, a return on an investment has greater risk, and not a set return\n#(i.e. the amount of money you make can go up or down, or you might even\n#lose money). The difference is, the risk of loss is shared by the\n#investor, rather than practically all the risk being taken by the\n#borrower when the borrower borrows from the bank.\n#\n\nBut is it different from stocks ? If you wish to call an investor in stocks as\na banker, well then its your choice .....\n\n#>Relabeling does not make it interest free !!\n#\n#It is not just relabeling, as I have explained above.\n\nIt *is* relabeling ...\nAlso its still not interest free. The investor is still taking some money ... as\ndividend on his investment ... ofcourse the investor (in islamic *banking*, its your\nso called *bank*) is taking more risk than the usual bank, but its still getting some\nthing back in return .... \n\nAlso have you heard of junk bonds ???\n\n\n---Vinayak\n-------------------------------------------------------\n vinayak dutt\n e-mail: vdp@mayo.edu\n\n standard disclaimers apply", "Hello Motif World,\n\na few days ago I posted my announcement for an update of Motif++. I got\nseveral requests to send the bindings per e-mail, and I know of several people\nwho have been using Motif++, and there are probably a number of people I am\nnot aware of who are also using Motif++.\n\nMy question is:\n\nHow many people 'out there' would be interested to join a mailing-list, where\npeople can ask questions about Motif++, swap stories, and give new ideas about\nnew directions and improvements for the bindings. This would benefit the\nuser-community, as well as give me more insight in what people would like to\nsee added to Motif++. Motif++ is still very much a voluntary project, and this\nway I can make a list of priorities, in what order things should be added, or\nchanged.\n\nIf you're interested in joining such a mailing-list, please take the time to\nreply to this message, and tell me so. When there is sufficient interest, say\nabout 20 people or more, a mailing-list will be set up at my site, and I will\npost the announcement of the newly-created list to this and other newsgroups.", "Somewhere, someone told me that Satan was the angel in charge of\nmusic in heaven, and on top of that, he was the most beautiful\nof the angels. Isn't it funny that these days how MTV has become\nthe \"bible\" of music and beauty these days. MTV controls what bands\nare popular, no matter how bad they are. In fact, it is better to\nbe politically correct - like U2, Madonna - than to have any\nmusical talent. Then of course, you have this television station\nthat tells us all how to dress. Think about it, who started the\nretro-fashion craze?? MTV and Madonna. Gag.\n\nAnyway, just food for thought. It is really my own wierd theory.\n\nIf Revelation was to come true today, I think MTV would the \"ever\nchanging waters\" (music and fashion world) that the beast would\narise from, and Madonna will be the whore of Babylon, riding the\nbeast and drinking the blood of the martyrs.\n\nHmmmm....great idea for a book/movie.....\n\n", "\n\"Society\" is impossible without some shared set of moralities, sense\nof what is \"god\" and what is \"bad\" action and basic foundation of \nsomething \"universal\".\n\n\n", "\n Or, with no dictionary available, they could gain first hand\n knowledge by suffering through one of your posts.\n\n\n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ \n\nBob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM \n\nThey said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,\nand sank Manhattan out at sea.", "[...deleta...]\n\nHeavy for a beginner bike it is; 415 pounds it isn't, except maybe in\nsome adman's dream. With a full tank, it's in the area of 550 lbs,\ndepending on year etc.\n\n\nThe 1980 and '81 versions had a much better seat, IMO.\n\n\nMy regulator lasted over 100,000 miles, and didn't overcharge the battery.\nThe wiring connectors in the charging path did get toasty though,\ntending to melt their insulation. I suspect they were underspecified;\nit didn't help that they were well removed from cool air.\n\nBattery access on the earlier bikes doesn't require tank removal.\nAfter you learn the drill, it's pretty straightforward.\n\n[...]\n\nHaving bought replacement parts for several brands of motorcycles,\nI'll offer a grain of salt to be taken with Dale's assessment.\n\n[...]", "\n\tMaybe you should contact your schools officials and make \nthem consider installing the necessary softwares or hardwares that\nallows the Unix works stations to shuts off its monitor when \nleft untouched. It does save a lot of energy. \n\n- Chung Yang", "\nKaldis, you are a worm.\n\n\nTranslation- It's them DAMN liberals again!\n\n\nWho gave you the authority to create and enforce this rather\nhazy thing called \"the American Way\"? This is a democracy, and\nwe don't need to stick to it or stick up for it unless we so\nchoose. Remember that, Ted, from Civics class in Greeley, CO?\n\n\nNice generalization.\n\n\nComing from such a crass example of \"manly dignity,\" he must\nfeel _really_ hurt.", "\n\tExcuse me? Quality? As in grade A CO2 and grade B CO2? I may not have\nthis quite right but I was under the impression that CO2 was CO2.\n\n Furthermore, \n\n\tA) There is no reason to believe this system is inherently stable- \nThe Ice ages occured without any help from humans.\n\n\tB) The point was that the human contribution of CO2 and other \ngreenhouse gasses is insignificant and it won't really make a difference if\nwe make more or less.\n\n\tC) What overwhelming data? I see lots of 'projections' of the future,\nwhich is fascinating, considering they can't predict the weather two weeks\nin advance.", "A word of warning for those of you registering for SIGGRAPH '93.\nI just received my registration form back in the mail with the\nenvelope marked \"Return to sender. Moved - Left No Address.\nClosed PO Box\". The address I used to register for SIGGRAPH '93\nis the one printed on the registration form:\n\n ACM SIGGRAPH '93\n PO Box 95316,\n Chicago, IL 60694-5316\n\nI printed the envelope in my best printing, honest but evidently\nSIGGRAPH '93 has skipped town or moved?\n\nI ended up faxing my registration to: 312-321-6876. I hope that\nnumber is real!", "For some time I've been thinking about the possiblity of starting a group\nwhere scientific articles can be published (or perhaps just summaries).\nPossible advantages would be:\n* Free disribution\n* Fast acceptance\n* Online discussion between authers and readers\n\nThis would be possible with one group with a moderator for publishing the\narticles and one perhaps without for discussion.\n\nThe best thing would be if all the articles would be in a standard format which\nwould make it possible to print or view the documents camera ready. Perhaps\nPostscript or Rich Text Format?\n\nBut how do you start a new group? Anyone interrested?", "\nThank you, Steve. It is refreshing to have someone accuse me of being\na Christian. I only hope enough evidence can be garnered to get a\nconviction. I am not certain what you mean by the \"fundy\" part as the\nterm fundamentalist has a wide variety of uses. If you refer to\nthose who actually believe Jesus is the Messiah and Son of God and\nwish to follow in his way, then I plead guilty. But what does it\nmatter what I think. The Roman circus is over. The lions have been\nsatisfied -- for now. The Emperor, after the long and gruelling\nstruggle, sensed the crowd was tiring and gave thumbs down.\n\nWith respect to my previous comments about David Koresh, I urge you\nto re-examine my previous posts. I believe you mistakenly assume\nthat defense of Koresh' right to his own personal beliefs and his\nright to express them to others implies agreement with Koresh'\ntheology. Actually I understand little about the details of Branch-\nDavidian teachings and regret so many are hung-up on that aspect\nof the tragic events of the past few days.\n\nNor do I think Koresh' sex life should be of any interest to the\nfederal government. Of course Hillary says he had been molesting\ninfants so it must be true even though such allegations do not\nfall under the jurisdiction of the federal government; they are\nstate and local matters and have been thoroughly reviewed at the\nlocal level by proper authorities with no successful charge having\never been levied against him. Under American law, he was innocent\nas Americans are presumed innocent until proven guilty. At least\nthat's how it is suppposed to be. But he was demonized and propa-\ngandized against by a powerful machine to have him appear as a\nlustful beast and therefore deserving of every ill the fates might\nbring upon him. \n\nBut evidence trickles in that the twenty-one children, who left the\nbuilding in the early days of the siege, were carefully examined\nby qualified authorities for evidence of physical or sexual abuse\nand none was found. DeGuerin, one of the attorneys who met with\nDavidians several times before the conflagration, reported that\nthe children seemed well adjusted and showed no sign of abuse.\n\nUltimately, Steve, what I think about the heart of David Koresh\nis quite unimportant. Today he is in the benevolent hands of a\nmost wise and merciful judge who will one day surely judge us all.\nSo I withhold any judgment of David Koresh and defer to the One\nwho has all knowledge. Meanwhile, let's clean up the mess left\non earth and keep this from happening again by sending a strong\nmessage to the government to respect the inalienable rights of the\npeople it serves.\n\n--Joe Gaut", "I want to run SPICE on my XT so I can learn more about amplifiers\nand oscilators. Is there a version of this that will run on my XT\nwith no math co-processer, if so where can I get it? Thanks for any\nand all help!\n\nJeff", "[...]\n\nthe\n\n\nI guess that just means \"Everyone else\" was mistaken?\n\nJim\n--\njmd@handheld.com", "(Robert L. McMillin) rants:\n\nAnd how did the \"free love advocates of the 1960's\" manage to perform\nthis demolition--forced breeding programs or something?\n\n\nNow let me get this straight. After a nice, long rant about how\npeople need to take personal responsibility for their economic and\nsocial lives, all of a sudden 1960's radicals (such as me, I guess)\nare responsible for poor people's lifestyles? Tell me how that\nworks--or do you think that poor people are just too dumb to think\nfor themselves?\n\nThere are many reasons for the disintegration of the family and\nsupport systems in general among this nation's poor. Somehow I\ndon't think Murphy Brown--or Janis Joplin--is at the top of any \nsane person's list.\n\nYou want to go after my generation's vaunted cultural revolution for\na lasting change for the worse, try so-called \"relevant\" or \"values\"\neducation. Hey, it seemed like a good idea at the time. How were\nwe to know you needed a real education first--I mean, we took that\nfor granted.", "\nJudging from postings I've read all over Usenet and on non-Usenet\nBBs conferences, Barney is DEFINITELY an endangered species. Especially\nif he runs into me in a dark alley.\n \n A.Lizard\n", "\nI see that I misphrased my question. I should have asked WHICH\nfull-autos Kratz can accurately distinguish from semi-auto\nlook-alikes. I should have also included some semi-auto only guns in\nmy list to see if he'd ask how to distinguish them from their\nnon-existent full-auto \"relatives\".\n\nLet's do the former now. Kratz has claimed that he can visually\ndistinguish full-autos from semi-autos. For which full-autos is he\nmaking that claim? How does he do it? Let's get specific, and as\nexhaustive as possible.\n\n\nMaybe? Why is Kratz asking about what he told us that he knows?\n\nIs Kratz certain that he can distinguish a three position switch from\na two position switch via TV inspection? (Does he even get to see the\nswitch in the typical police display of guns?) Note that one might\nwell be able to see this sort of thing in a hands on visual inspection\neven though it won't be seen on TV. And to think that Kratz was\ntelling us that seeing it on TV was just as accurate as being\nthere....\n\n\nWhy all the questions? Kratz assured us that he could make this distinction\nand now he's asking us how he did it....\n\n\nWhat about it? It only demonstrates that, as I predicted, Kratz\nwas blowing smoke on this.\n\n\n-andy wonders what Kratz is learning from this", " >It is very difficult for a young person to develop and build\n >a positive view of themself when they are constantly being\n >told implicitly and explicitly that they are wrong and\n >immoral.\n\nYes, that is most certainly true. However, the paragrapgh reflects a value-less\nposition and infers that what is more important than anything else is to\nhave \"a positive view\" of one's self.\n\nThis of course, is foolish.\n\nShould a mass murderer, a pedophile, a 10-year old pyromaniac have a \"positive\nview\" of themselves?\n\nOf course not.\n\nA person that engages in behaviour that a large number of people condemn,\nand IF you believe in the concept of \"society\", then your only choice is\nto expect that person to have a negative view of themselves.\n\n\n-- \nThere are actually people that STILL believe Love Canal was some kind of\nenvironmental disaster. Weird, eh?", "\nThis topic was beaten to death a year or so ago.\n\nThe concrete is not the problem. \n\nLead-acid batteries often fail from disuse (not being charged for a long\ntime), but there's no way the concrete floor could be the cause of the\nproblem.\n", "thanks a bunch,\n\n-nate", "Rex Wang (wangr@vccsouth22.its.rpi.edu) spews forth stupidly:\n\nPLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me that you don't actually ATTEND Rensselaer, and\nthat you just work for ITS. Or that this was tounge-in-cheek.\n\nDoes this mean that I should be cutting off my alumni contributions, or \nincreasing them?", "\nI've been following this train of talk, and the question of dismissing atoms as \nbeing in some sense \"not real\" leaves me uneasy.\n\nIt seems to be implied that we obseve only the effects, and therefore the \nunderlying thing is not necessarily real. The tree outside my window is in \nthis category... is observe the light which bounces off of it, not the tree \nitself. The observation is indirect, but no more so than observations I have \nmade of atoms.\n\nAlso, what about observations and experiments that have been routinely done \nwith individual atoms. I am thinking in particular of atom trapping \nexperiments and tests of fundamental quantum mechanics such as the quantum Zeno \neffect, where an individual atom is studied for a long period of time.\n\nSome of the attempts at quantum mechanical arguments were not very satisfying \neither. One has to be carefull about making such arguments without a solid \ntechnical background in the field. What I read seemed a little confused a \nquite a red herring.\n\nAnyway, if the purpose of a public debate is to make the audience think, it \nworked. After doing so, I'm willing to try to defend the following assertion \nif anyone cares:", "\n\n\n\nBut of course it does. It's certainly a legal matter. If it's not a\nlegal matter that interest *you* you may simply put it in your kill\nfile. ", "\n No. The christians were leary of having an atheist spokesman\n (seems so clandestine, and all that), so they had him removed. Of\n course, Keith is busy explaining to his fellow captives how he\n isn't really being persecuted, since (after all) they *are*\n feeding him, and any resistance on his part would only be viewed\n as trouble making. \n\n I understand he did make a bit of a fuss when they tatooed \"In God\n We Trust\" on his forehead, though.\n\n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ \n\nBob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM \n\nThey said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,\nand sank Manhattan out at sea.", "Of course, if you want to check the honesty of your dealler, take it in\nknowing what's wrong, and ask them to tell you. :)\n\nOf course he'll probably know right a way, then charge you a $20 service\nfee. :)", "-*----\n\n\nI believe that Maharishi is titular. (Someone please correct me if \nI am wrong.) Thus, Maharishi Rajneesh is a different person from\nMaharishi Mahesh, but they are both Maharishis.", "Here is someones \"biblical\" claim for the characteristics of Satan:\n\n\nAnd separately:\n\n\nWe have here three distinct claims concerning the results of the devil's\ndecision making, a specific desire, and a physical description. Now, in\nsupport (aside from the minor detail that an author seldom writes an unbiased\naccount of the opposition) we see:\n\n\nISA 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the\nmorning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken\nthe nations!\n\nISA 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into\n --------------------\nheaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit\n-----------------------------------------------------\nalso upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:\n\nISA 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will\nbe like the most High.\n\nISA 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides\nof the pit.\n\n\nDoesn't say sits on God's throne. Says will exhault throne above the stars.\n\n\nDAN 10:12 Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the\nfirst day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to\nchasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am\ncome for thy words.\n\nDAN 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me\n ------------------------------\none and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes,\n ------------------------\ncame to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.\n\nDAN 10:14 Now I am come to make thee understand what shall be-\nfall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for\nmany days.\n\n\nSee who is being discussed?\n\n\n\nEZE 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of\n -----------\nTyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up\n-----\nthe sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.\n\nEZE 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every pre-\ncious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the dia-\nmond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the em-\nerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy ta-\nbrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou\nwast created.\n\nEZE 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have\nset thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast\nwalked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.\n\nEZE 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou\nwast created, till iniquity was found in thee.\n\nEZE 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled\nthe midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore\nI will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I\nwill destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the\nstones of fire.\n\nEZE 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou\nhast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will\ncast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they\nmay behold thee.\n\nEZE 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of\nthine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will\nI bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour\nthee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight\nof all them that behold thee.\n\nEZE 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be as-\ntonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be\nany more.\n\n", "\n > I wonder if Ojeda will sue anyone - because his career may be over.\n\nNot due to the accident -- he just got a (really) bad haircut. Now, if you\nmeant due to his floating fastball, well...\n", "I am a PhD student.\nCan I get the sci.crypt group posted directly to me???\nAlso I would like some feed-back on the encryption schemes that my research in\nfinite fields can be applied to. Any takers\nReply to gamv25@udcf.gla.ac.uk\nThanks yours\nGavin.\n", "\nUS House of Representatives\nWashington, DC 20515", "Now, that Clinton can get e-mail, i'm wondering if Congress is also\ngoing on line.. If so, does anyone have the address to reach them??\nI'm also looking for Bill's e-mail address.\nplease e-mail me, i am not a regualar reader of this newsgrouop.\n", "\tThis seems appropriate, somehow...>:-)>\n[....]\n\tHah! I have it on the very *best* authority (mine) that Koresh is\nwhooping it up in a time-share condo in Dallas with Elvis, JFK, and (of course)\nJ.R. \"Bob\" Dobbs, who also owns the place and everything else in Texas.\n\tLook for \"koresh\" sightings in the Weekly World News and National\nEnquirer in the coming months.\n\t************************************************************\n\t* \tThe_Doge of South St. Louis\t\t\t *\n\t*\t\tDobbs-Approved Media Conspirator(tm)\t *\n\t*\t\"One Step Beyond\" -- Sundays, 3 to 5 pm\t *\n\t*\t\t88.1 FM\t\tSt. Louis Community Radio *\n\t* \"You'll pay to know what you *really* think!\" *\n\t*\t\t\t-- J.R. \"Bob\" Dobbs\"\t\t *\n\t************************************************************\n", " > And the same goes for other cultural practices. The festival\n > of Easter may possibly have some historical association with\n > some pagan festival, but *today* there are, as far as I know,\n > no Christians who *intend* to honor any kind of \"pagan\n > goddess\" by celebrating Easter.", "Hi. I would like to know if there is a seperate newgroup for \ndiscussion of MS Test or Quality Assurance issues. Or, if not, what\nnewsgroup would be the appropriate one to use.\n\nDoes compuserve or microsoft themselves have a bbs people can call\nfor help on such?\n\nThanks. Please email response to djw@wang.com\n\nD\n", "TEST-- \n\n", "\n Nut or not, he was clearly a liar. He said he would surrender after\n local radio stations broadcast his message, but he didn't. Then he\n said he would surrender after Passover, but he didn't.\n\n None of which excuses the gross incompetence and disregard for the\n safety of the children displayed by the feds. As someone else\n pointed out, if it had been Chelsea Clinton in there you would \n probably have seen more restraint.\n", "\nCan somebody send me a copy of this faq?\n\nThanks alot!", "i have a question for you all related to this. jesus condemns divorce\nseveral times in the new testament, and i have a hard time with this.\nthe catholic church (as far as i can tell) does grant annulments with\nthe statement that the marriage never really existed in God's eyes.\n(please, if i am mistinterpreting, correct me.) however, i have\nwitnessed marriages where two people were very much in love but\nrecognized that they were destroying themselves and each other by\nstaying in a marriage, and that the problems were due to personal\nchildhood issues that had never been resolved. i ask you, is divorce\njustified in such a case? they knew who they were, what they were\ndoing, they were deeply in love, but in the end, it did not work out.\ni must admit that i don't see jesus forcing them to live together, or\neven condemning that they go and seek happiness with someone else\nlater on. opinions?\n\nvera\n*******************************************************************************\nI am your CLOCK! | I bind unto myself today | Vera Noyes\nI am your religion! | the strong name of the\t | noye@midway.uchicago.edu\nI own you!\t | Trinity....\t\t | no disclaimer -- what\n\t- Lard\t |\t- St. Patrick's Breastplate | is there to disclaim?\n*******************************************************************************", "\nWell, a student body president can't exactly campaign on the stand\nthat he's \"tough on crime\". Their job is to listen to what people want\nand fund things that make sense.\n\nCondoms and marijuana aren't exactly the worst things to have available\neither...", "\n...for very small values of six and nine.", "\n Anything but...\n\n Bill Clinton and Janett Reno should not have started the whole\n shenanigan in the first place.\n\n\n-- \n------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDisclaimer: Opinions expressed are mine, not my employer's.", "A member of the local BBS I frequent is looking for Mac oriented BBSs based in\nChicago.\n\nAny leads would be most appreciated.\n\n", "\n[...]\n\nThe House Document Room can be reached at +1 202 225 3456. You need to \nhave the number of the document you want (e.g. HR1036) and they'll be happy\nto send it to you. Tell them if it's going to be a big stack, because the\nsurly sounding guy who answers is scrawling in a really awful hand on the\nback of the envelope that will come and will run out of room quickly if\nyou don't tell him.\n\nThe Senate document room is too important to deal with the likes of you\nand I, and will answer requests from off the hill only by mail.\n\n", "\nSomeone tell me there's a :-) hidden here somewhere... ???\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDavid Rex Wood -- davewood@cs.colorado.edu -- University of Colorado at Boulder", "\n\nI quote from the journal, \"30 Days In the Church and In the World,\"\n1992, No. 8/9, p. 29. \n\nRegarding the new draft of the Universal Catechism:\n\n\tIn procuring the common good of society the need could arise\n\tthat the aggressor be placed in the position where he cannot\n\tcause harm. By virtue of this, the right and obligation of \n\tpublic authorities to punish with proportionate penalties,\n\tincluding the death penalty, is acknowledged. For similar\n\treasons, legimate authorities have the right to impede\n\taggressors in society with the use of arms. The Church's \n\ttraditional teaching has always been expressed and will \n\tcontinue to be expressed in the \n\tconsideration of the real conditions of common good and the\n\teffective means for preserving public order and personal\n\tsafety. To the degree that means other than the death\n\tpenalty and military operations are sufficient to keep the\n\tpeace, then these non-violent provisions are to be preferred\n\tbecause they are more in proportion and in keeping with the\n\tfinal goal of protection of peace and human dignity. \n\nAs is clearly shown by this excerpt, the Church's teaching on capital\npunishment remains today as it has always been in the past - in total\naccord with my sentiment that I do not disagree with the use of deadly\nforce in those cases for which this option is justifiable. \n\n\nI seek to conform my will to the will of God as expounded by His\ninstrument of the visible Church here on earth whenever the question\nof faith or morals arises. \n\n", "\n\n\nI'm not an expert, but having spent much too much of my life looking for\nthe power switch, or the brightness control, or the de-gauss, etc., etc.,\netc. it is my firm belief that the only reason any\ncontrols/switches/knobs/whatever in places where they are hard to reach is\nbecause the designers put them there deliberately.\n\nThe real question is weather this is because of stupidity, or\nmaliciousness.\n\n--", "\nNo one should EVER rely on just a magazine to determine what car they\nbuy, I don't care what magazine. Btw, I subscribe to three other \nauto rags, I just think CU is getting a bum rap by these macho men\nfrom hell who think real men should read . . . .\n\nStatements like what you said above have no meaning. People keep on\nsaying \"CU is only good for dishwashing detergent\" or as you\nall they say. \n\nIf there were as critical of themsevles as they are of CU maybe there\nwould be some real content.\n\njohn\n\n\n", "\nLets see what the dictionary has to say:\n\nobjective adj. 1. As having to do with a material object as distinguished\nfrom a mental concept. 2. Having actual existance. 3.a. Uninfluenced\nby emotion or personal prejudice. b. Based on observable phenomenon.", "Paul Prescod pontificating:\n\n\n PP>> Libertarians oppose BOTH waiting periods AND background checks\n PP>>-- or ANY prerequisite for exercising rights that are supposed to\n PP>>be guaranteed.\n\n PP>Let me get this straight. Unlike the other idiots in this newsgroup,\n PP>you actually support anybody having unlimited access to guns,\n PP>inclucing criminals. (or would you prohibit them from owning them,\n PP>but not from buying them?)\n\n PP>You are a supreme idiot. You make the other idiots look like Mensa members.\n\nThanks Paul, for yet another fine example of the holier than thou gun control\nmindset. Why don't you add something intelligent to the debate, like maybe\nnyah nyah nyah nyah nyah.\n---\n . OLX 2.2 . Fight crime..... shoot back!\n ", "HB 1776 is for Concealed Carry in Texas. It provides for licensing\ncitizens to carry concealed firearms if they pass an instruction\ncourse (30 hours, if I remember correctly), pay a $140 fee (good for\n4 years), and meet several other criteria related to personal\ncharacter, etc.\n\nWhile I don't agree with all of the criteria, I feel it's high time\nthat pro-gun types fight the same way HCI et al. do -- by getting\nincremental changes in the law. \n\nDaryl", "Dan Sorenson writing:\n\n ...\n\n DS>I'd rather not get into the Nationalized Medical Care debate\n DS>here, but I find it amazing that criminals often live better than the\n DS>rest of the population, in some aspects, and that we're paying for\n ^^^^\n DS>them to do so. As an example, in November I had my annual dental\n\n ...\n\n Here, you are somewhat in error.....in ALL respects we are paying. When we\n are not paying for their countryclub incarceration, we are paying with our\n lives and belongings as their prey. Upon what would they practice their\n nefarious predatory acts if not for the citizens of this country. What is\n amazing to me is the mindset of those who overtly and covertly perpetuate\n a justice system (har) that essentially mandates that some of us offer up\n ourselves as that prey while they suitably insulate themselves from the\n preyground.\n---\n . OLX 2.2 . Church of Crime & Justice....come, let us prey!\n ", "\n\nThere are several ways in which one can choose to intrepret any \nconstitutational issue :\n\n (a) Original intent\n (b) Subjectively intrepreted accordiong to political whims of the day.\n\nIf we use original intent as the basis for intrepreting the constitution, \nit is clear that the founding fathers intended that the individual citizen \nbe allowed to bear arms similar to those used by soldiers of the day.\n\nFor references, I cite :\n\n - Federalist papers\n \n - \"The Embarassing Second Ammendment\", Yale Law Review, \n Prof. Stanford Levinson [sorry, I don't have the date handy]\n\n Prof Levinson sought to prove that the 2nd ammendment did not\n convey an individual right, but concluded that it did, hence the \n \"embarassing\" in his title.\n \n - Report of the Subcomittee on the Consititution, United States Sendate,\n 97th Congress, Second Session February 1982.\n\n - U.S. vs. Verguido Urguidez (Supreme court case in recent years). \n Although this case did not pertain to firearms, Justice Rhenquist\n notes that the term \"the people\" is a term of art conveying individual\n rights, and specifically cited several used, 2nd ammentment included,\n in his opinion.\n\n - Title 10, U.S. Code. This states that all males between the ages of\n 18 & 45 not part of the organized militia, and all female officers of\n the national guard are part of the unorganized militia.", "\nI'm most of the way through adding a grammar for parsing the #if expressions.\nI don't know when I'll be able to get back to it; you're welcome to what I \nhave so far. I haven't looked at other versions of makedepend, which may solve\nthe problem more elegantly.\n", "\n The dogma of the Assumption does not state whether or not Mary died a\nphysical death before being taken into Heaven. Catholics are free to\nbelieve what they wish, whether it be that she was taken still alive, or\nafter having died. I lean somewhat toward the latter myself.", "I would appreciate any thoughts on what makes a planet habitable for Humans.\nI am making asumptions that life and a similar atmosphere evolve given a range\nof physical aspects of the planet. The question is what physical aspects\nsimply disallow earth like conditions.\n\neg Temperature range of 280K to 315K (where temp is purely dependant on dist\n from the sun and the suns temperature..)\n Atmospheric presure ? - I know nothing of human tolerance\n Planetary Mass ? - again gravity at surface is important, how much\n can human bodies take day after day. Also how does the mass effect\n atmosphere. I thinking of planets between .3 and 3 times mass of the\n earth. I suppose density should be important as well.\n\nClimate etc does not concern me, nor does axial tilt etc etc. Just the above\nthree factors and how they relate to one another.\n\nJonathan\n--", "I'm going to be mixing together here stuff from two of Ted Frank's\narticles, <1993Apr15.143623.25813@midway.uchicago.edu> (which was a\nresponse to me) and <1993Apr16.011455.20518@midway.uchicago.edu> (a\nresponse to Tim Smith)...\n\n\nEminent domain is a state-mandated transaction in which one party is\nrequired to sell a piece of property which it owns to another party,\nregardless of whether the first party wishes to sell at all, at a price\nwhich is set by the state. I fail to see how this doctrine can be found\nin tort, bankruptcy or contract cases in general. Well, okay, sort of\nin bankruptcy...\n\n* * * * *\n\n\nBang. Here's one of the places where we widely diverge. You believe\nthat the courts, in deciding a civil dispute between two parties, should\nconsider as a factor -- perhaps as an overriding factor -- issues which\nI believe the court should ignore as being irrelevant to the dispute.\n_Boomer v. Atlantic Cement Co._ was an action brought by one party,\nBoomer, whose property rights were being violated on an ongoing basis by\nanother party, the Atlantic Cement Company. The facts supported\nBoomer's contention that Atlantic Cement was wrongfully damaging his\nproperty, and Boomer asked the court to order Atlantic Cement to stop\ndoing so. End of story. There was no reason for the court to consider\nsuch issues as what a capitalistic society would want Atlantic Cement to\ndo or whether the cost of compliance was disproportionate to the damage\nfaced by the plaintiffs. Those issues had nothing to do with the case\nbefore the court.\n\n\nI'd be up in arms? Why do you assume that? Quite the contrary, I'd\nprobably support the action, since it would be based on the same general\ndoctrine as the decision that I believe would have been correct in\n_Boomer_: the idea that people's property rights should not be violated\nfor reasons of economic efficiency. In _Boomer_ it was Boomer's\nproperty rights which I believe the court should have protected; in the\nhypothetical EPA ruling you've presented, it's the American people's\ncollective property rights in a healthy physical environment. What\ngood is cost-benefit ratio of 15+:1 if you wind up with cement dust in\nyour air?\n\n* * * * *\n\n\nYes. So what? The courts are supposed to protect the specific rights\nof individuals, not the general interests of some nebulous society. If\nsociety can have its cement plant without violating anyone's rights,\nfine. Otherwise society will somehow have to limp along with one less\ncement plant. (See, Ted, I really _am_ a libertarian after all! :-)\n\n\n\"One wants the legal regime to approximate the end result to begin with,\nin order to minimize the transactions costs.\"??? Which \"one\" are you\nspeaking of? _I_ want the legal regime to protect people's rights.\nBesides, Coase's Theorem only has real application in the never-never\nland of perfectly rational actors. In the real world (1) some people\nare going to be stubborn, ornery, spiteful or otherwise \"irrational\"\nfrom a economic point of view and (2) the purpose of the courts is to\nprotect their right to be so. I don't care if you can show me logically\nthat your cattle are only doing $100 of damage to my property per head,\nso I should rationally sell you grazing rights to my land for, say, $150\nper head -- I still retain the right to tell you that I just plain don't\nwant any damned cattle on my property, not at any price.\n\n* * * * *\n\n\nLast question first: For the same reason as in contract law -- because\nto do so would come dangerously close to treading on the Thirteenth\nAmendment.\n\nAs to your \"Then, by your argument, no tort plaintiff is ever made\nwhole, because the award of damages in involuntary\" claim, you're at\nleast partially right. Faced with situations in which the wrong has\nalready been done and the damage to the victim has already taken place\nand cannot be reversed or undone, courts will try to set an equitable\nprice tag on the loss suffered by the victim and require the wrongdoer\nto pay this price (rather than an inflated price which the victim might\nprefer). In these cases, the \"sale\" has already taken place and is\nirreversible, and the court simply tries to ensure that a fair price is\npaid, under the doctrines that (a) only in certain circumstances should\neven a civil wrongdoer be forced to pay punitive or excessive prices and\n(b) even a genuine victim should not profit in an unjustified or\ninequitable manner from his victimhood. Both of these doctrines may be\nworth discussing or debating elsewhere, but neither is relevant to cases\nlike _Boomer_ in which the wrongful act and the loss stemming from it\nare still in the future and _can_ be reversed/undone (i.e., prevented\nfrom happening at all) by order of the court.\n\nIn these types of cases, all the court has to do is require that the\npotential victim's property rights are protected until and unless he\nagrees to sell them at a mutually-acceptable price. There is no need\nfor the court to guess at the equitable value of the loss and force both\nsides to accept its finding. It can leave that operation up to the\nparties themselves.\n\n\nIn cases like _Boomer_, they're simply a cost of doing business. The\nfact that the proprietors of the Atlantic Cement Co. got themselves into\na position in which they found themselves over this barrel is simply a\nresult of their own poor business decision to start up a cement plant\nwithout _first_ trying to negotiate with Boomer and everyone else whose\nproperty rights they'd be violating via the operation of their plant.\nThere's nothing punitive or unjust about it.\n\n\nAnybody who wants to commit a wrongful act in the future should be\nrequired to buy the right to do so from the victim, in advance. And the\nseller should be allowed to set his or her price for the privilege. No\ninjustice, no punitive damages.\n\n* * * * *\n\n\nDoesn't sound very much like a libertarian to me. Libertarians tend to\nbelieve in the rights of individual people, not societies.\n\n* * * * *\n\n\nAs stated above, the tort was _ongoing_. Atlantic Cement wanted to be\nable to _continue_ to violate Boomer's rights. While the court may have\nbeen justified in setting an equitable price tag on the damage already\ncommitted, it had no reason and no need to set a price tag on the\n_future_ violations of Boomer's rights and to then force Boomer to sell\nat that price.", "\n\tThe computer itself uses far less electricity than a TV. \nMonitor--depends on the size :).\n\n\tBut one thing NOT to do is use a self-shutdown or power-shutdown \niron/appliance on the same electric line.\n\n\tAfter a new monitor and power supply and modem, my wife *still* doesn't\nthink her iron is at fault :(.\t(She should know better, being a Bio-med\nengineer :)", "\n\n\n\nFirst I've heard of it. Offhand:\n\nGriffin is no longer an \"office\" head, so that's bad.\n\nOn the other hand:\n\nRegress seemed to think: we can't fund anything by Griffin, because\nthat would mean (and we have the lies by the old hardliners about the\n$ 400 billion mars mission to prove it) that we would be buying into a\nmission to Mars that would cost 400 billion. Therefore there will be\nno Artemis or 20 million dollar lunar orbiter et cetera...\n\nThey were killing Griffin's main program simply because some sycophants\nsomewhere had Congress beleivin that to do so would simply be to buy into\nthe same old stuff. Sorta like not giving aid to Yeltsin because he's\na communist hardliner.\n\nAt least now the sort of reforms Griffin was trying to bring forward\nwon't be trapped in their own little easily contained and defunded\nghetto. That Griffin is staying in some capacity is very very very\ngood. And if he brings something up, noone can say \"why don't you go\nback to the OSE where you belong\" (and where he couldn't even get money\nfor design studies).", "I was a graduate student in the early 1980s, and we had a conference on \nReaganomics where Jerry Jordan, then a member of the Council of Economic \nAdvisors, was a speaker. I had the pleasure of driving him back to the \nairport afterwards, and since taxes were the main topic of discussion I \nthought I would ask him about the VAT. I have favored it for these reasons \nyou mention, that the income base is too hazy to define, that it taxes \nsavings and investment, that it is likely to be more visible. He agreed, \nand reported that the CEA at that time was in favor of VAT. So why not \npropose it? I asked. He replied that the Reagan White House feared that \nthe Democrats would introduce VAT *in addition to* the income tax, rather \nthan in lieu. Better not to give them any ideas, he said.\n\nPretty prescient.\n\nYes, any Canadian readers, please tell us if the tax is displayed on price \nstickers (I'm relatively certain it is not in Europe).", "\nI suppose for the same reason that you do not believe in all the gods. Why\nshould any be any different? I use the same arguments to dismiss Koresh\nas I do god. Tell me, then, why do you not believe that Koresh is the son\nof god? By logic it is equally possible that Koresh is Jesus reborn. \n\n\n", "\nOr, did anyone notice that when Clinton referred to the Davidians as\n'religious fanatics' that a round of spontaneous applause burst forth from\nthe reporters ? \n\nTo me this was not only in poor taste, but it showed the media's bias and\nhostility to anyone not of the politically correct stripe. No wonder they\nhave been cheerleading for the kgBATF and the FBI during this whole affair.\n\n\t\t\tRod\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\"It [collectivism vs individualism] is an ancient conflict. Men have come\nclose to the truth, but it was destroyed each time and one civilization fell\nafter another. Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The\nsavage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe.\nCivilization is the process of setting man free from men.\"\n -- Ayn Rand : 'Roark's speech from the _Fountainhead_'\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nI don't speak for my company. We hire the 'Politically Correct' to do that.", "DROPLET VOL 1, No 11, Part 3\n\nD R O P L E T\nFrom The Vast Ocean Of The Miraculous Qur'an\n\nTranslations from the Arabic and Turkish Writings of \nBediuzzaman Said Nursi, The Risale-i Noor\n\nVOL 1, No 11, Part 3\n------------------------------------------------------------------\n \t\t NINETEENTH LETTER \n\n\t\t MU'JIZAT-I AHMEDIYE RISALESI \nA TREATISE ON THE MIRACLES OF MUHAMMED SAW, Part 3 \n\n(continued from Droplet Vol 1, No 11, Part 2)\n\n THIRD SIGN: The miracles of Muhammad (SAW)\nare extremely varied. Because his messengership is\nuniversal, he has been distinguished by miracles that\nrelate to almost all species of creation.\n Just as the supreme aide of a renowned ruler, arriving\nwith many gifts in a city where various people live, will be\nwelcomed by a representative of each people who\nacclaims him and bids him welcome in his own language\nso, too, when the supreme messenger of the Monarch of\nPre- and Post-Eternity (Ezel and Ebed Sultani) honored the\nuniverse by coming as an envoy to the inhabitants of the\nearth, and brought with him the light of truth and spiritual\ngifts sent by the Creator of the universe and derived from\nthe realities of the whole universe, each species of\ncreation -from water, rocks, trees, animals and human\nbeings to the moon, sun and stars- welcomed him and\nacclaimed his prophethood, each in its own language, and\neach bearing one of his miracles.\n Now it would require a voluminous work to mention all\nhis miracles. As the punctilious scholars have written\nmany volumes concerning the proofs of His prophethood,\nhere we will briefly point out only the general category\ninto which fall fhe miracles that are definite and accepted\nas accurate reports.\n The evidences of the prophethood of Muhammad\n(SAW) fall into two main categories: \n\n The first is called irhasat and includes the paranormal \nevents that happened at the time of his birth, or before his \ndeclaration of prophethood. \n\n The second group pertains to all the remaining evidences \nof the prophethood, and contains two subdivisions: \n\n 1) Those wonders that were manifested after\nhis departure from this world in order to confirm his\nprophethood, and \n\t2) Those that he exhibited during the era\nof his prophethood. The latter has also two parts: \n\t2.1) The evidences of his prophethood that became manifest\nin his own personality, his inner and outer being, his moral\nconduct and perfection, and \n 2.2) The miracles that: related to substantial matters. \nThe last part again has two branches: \n\t2.2.1) Those concerning the Qur'an and spirituality, and \n\t2.2.2) Those relating to matter and creation. This last \nbranch is again divided into two categories: \n\t2.2.2.1) The first involves the paranormal happenings \nthat occured during his mission either to break the \nstubbornness of the unbelievers, or to augment the\nfaith of the belivers. This category has twenty different\nsorts, such as the splitting of the moon, the flowing of\nwater from the fingers, the satisfying of large numbers with\na little food, and the speaking of trees, rocks and animals\nEach of these sons has also many instances, and thus\nhas, in meaning, the strength of confirmation by\nconsensus. \n\t2.2.2.2) As for the second category, this\nincludes events lying in the future that occured as he had\npredicted upon Allah (SWT)'s instructions. Now starting\nfrom the last category, we will summarize a list of them.(1)\n\n(1) Unfonunately, I could not write as I had intended\nwithout choice, I wrote as my head dictated, and I could\nnot completely conform to the order of this classification.\n", "\n\nAre we talking about me, or the majority of the people that support it?\nAnyway, I think that \"revenge\" or \"fairness\" is why most people are in\nfavor of the punishment. If a murderer is going to be punished, people\nthat think that he should \"get what he deserves.\" Most people wouldn't\nthink it would be fair for the murderer to live, while his victim died.\n\n\nPerhaps you think that it is petty and pathetic, but your views are in the\nminority.\n\n\nWhere are we required to have compassion, forgiveness, and sympathy? If\nsomeone wrongs me, I will take great lengths to make sure that his advantage\nis removed, or a similar situation is forced upon him. If someone kills\nanother, then we can apply the golden rule and kill this person in turn.\nIs not our entire moral system based on such a concept?\n\nOr, are you stating that human life is sacred, somehow, and that it should\nnever be violated? This would sound like some sort of religious view.\n \n\nOnce a criminal has committed a murder, his desires are irrelevant.\n\nAnd, you still have not answered my question. If you are concerned about\nthe death penalty due to the possibility of the execution of an innocent,\nthen why isn't this same concern shared with imprisonment. Shouldn't we,\nby your logic, administer as minimum as punishment as possible, to avoid\nviolating the liberty or happiness of an innocent person?", "\n\tUh oh...\n\tUmm, there are a number of copy protection schemes. Some involve\nmodifying the physical media, and some involve encryption schemes, &c.\n\tAll of the ones that have existed over the course of computing have\nbeen successful for a time. I recall, however, near monthly releases of new\nways to \"crack\" the copy protection scheme of the latest releases. The fact\nis, none of them are completely secure, or anywhere near it. Some are more or\nless difficult to crack, and some have already been cracked.\n\tI guess what I am saying is that your question is difficult, if not\nimpossible, to answer. What exactly do you want to know? Do you need a good\none for a project you are working on? How secure must it be? Are you trying\nto crack one that someone else has used? I can probably make suggestions,\nassuming the activity is strictly legal. (In general, it is a BAD idea,\nlegally, to tamper with copy protection. It can also lead to corruption of\nfiles which you necessarily do not have back ups of (being as they are copy\nprotected,) which can be devestating.) Do you have absolutely no ideas for\npractical applications, and are merely curious?\n\tPlease clear up those questions, and I'll try to help as much as I\ncan.\n\n\tIncidentally, the \"Uh oh...\" at the top is indicative of the dread\nanyone who has watched their friends hacking equipment be carted off feels\nwhen they are asked how to hack. The area you are broaching is wrought with\ndangers, many of which include breaking the law, or at least addressing it\n(from one side or the other.)", "\n\n\n\nNot this time, Enis. Furthermore, a new generation has risen - equipped \nwith a deep sense of commitment, politically mature and conscious, who \ndeterminedly pursue the Turkish Cause, through all necessary means, \nranging from the political and diplomatic to the armed struggle. In \nother words, what we have is a demand from the fascist government of\nx-Soviet Armenia to redress the wrongs that were done against our\npeople. \n\n\n \"The crime of systematic cleansing by mass killing and extermination \n of the Muslim population in the Soviet Republic of Armenia, Karabag, \n Bosnia and Herzegovina is an 'Islamic Holocaust' comparable to the \n extermination of 2.5 million Muslims by the Armenian Government \n during the WWI and of over 6 million European Jews during the WWII.\"\n (Tovfik Kasimov - Azeri Leader - September 25, 1992)\n \n\n \"Today's ethnic cleansing policies by the Serbian dictatorship against\n Croatians and Muslims of Yugoslavia, as well as the Soviet Republic\n of Armenia's against the Muslim population of neighboring Azerbaijan,\n are really no different in their aspirations than the genocide \n perpetrated by the Armenian Government 78 years ago against the\n Turkish and Kurdish Muslims and Sephardic Jews living in these\n lands.\" (Cebbar Leygara - Kurdish Leader - October 13, 1992)\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nNot true. Dial 811 and listen to the recording. If you get it, then your \nphone was recognized by the network. You wouldn't be able to dial a real \nnumber yet (of course!)\n\n=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\nMark Bramwell, VE3PZR Located in sunny London, Ontario", "\n..\n\nfunny, if Koresh did say that, he was quoting St. Paul. of course, \nthe early Christians were persecuted too. if Koresh is a loony \nbecause he quotes the Bible, how long is it before mainstream \nChristians become the target of the FBI's loving care and attention?\n\njason\n", "\n\nRight? What right? And don't you mean something more like: It so\ntypical that the wants of the minority can obstruct the wants of the\nmajority, no matter how ridiculous those minority wants might be or\nwhat benefits those majority wants might have?\n\n[My sole connection with the project is that I spent a lot of time in\nclasses at the University of Colorado.]\n\n-- \n\"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live\n in the real world.\" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden", "\nWell, there are two approaches we can take here. One is to ask you what this\nobjective morality is, assuming it's not a secret.\n\nThe other is to ask you what you think is wrong with relativism, so that we\ncan correct your misconceptions :-)\n", "\n/(hudson)\n/If someone inflicts pain on themselves, whether they enjoy it or not, they\n/are hurting themselves. They may be permanently damaging their body.\n\nThat is true. It is also none of your business. \n\nSome people may also reason that by reading the bible and being a Xtian\nyou are permanently damaging your brain. By your logic, it would be OK\nfor them to come into your home, take away your bible, and send you off\nto \"re-education camps\" to save your mind from ruin. Are you ready for\nthat? \n\n\n\n\n\n/(hudson)\n/And why is there nothing wrong with it? Because you say so? Who gave you\n/the authority to say that, and set the standard for morality?\n\nWhy?\n\nBecause: \nI am a living, thinking person able to make choices for myself.\nI do not \"need\" you to show me what you think is the way; I have observed\ntoo many errors in your thinking already to trust you to make up the\nrules for me.\n\nBecause:\nI set the standard for my *own* morality, and I permit you to do \nthe same for yourself. I also do not try to force you to accept my rules.\n\nBecause:\nSimply because you don't like what other people are doing doesn't give you\nthe right to stop it, Hudson. We are all aware that you would like for \neveryone to be like you. However, it is obnoxious, arrogant thinking like \nyours, the \"I-know-I'm-morally-right-so-I-can-force-it-on-you\" bullshit \nthat has brought us religious wars, pogroms against Jews, gay-bashing,\nand other atrocities by other people who, like you, \"knew\" they were\nmorally right.\n\n\n\n\n\n(me)\n\n/(hudson)\n/Aren't you? Aren't you indicating that I should not tell other people what\nto do? Aren't you telling me it is wrong for me to do that? \n\nIt is not a moral standard that I am presenting you with, Hudson. It is\na key to getting along in life with other people. It is also a point of\nrespect: I trust other people to be intelligent enough to make their\nown choices, and I expect the same to be returned. You, on the other\nhand, do not trust them, and want to make the choice for them--whether\nthey like it or not.\n\nIt is also a way to avoid an inconsistency: if you believe that you have \nthe right to set moral standards for others and interfere in their lives, \nthen you must, by logic, admit that other people have the same right of \ninterference in your life. \n(Yes, I know; you will say that your religion is correct and tells you that\nonly agents acting in behalf of your religion have the right of interference.\nHowever, other people will say that you have misinterpreted the Word of\nGod and that *they* are the actual true believers, and that you are\nacting on your own authority. And so it goes).\n\n\n\n\n\n(hudson)\n/Who gave\n/you the authority to set such a moral standard for me to tell me that I \n/cannot set a moral standard for others?\n\n\nYou can set all the standards that you want, actually. But don't be surprised\nif people don't follow you like rats after the Pied Piper. \n\nAt the most basic form, I am not going to LET you tell me what to do;\nand if necessary, I will beat you to a bloody pulp before I let you actually\ninterfere in my life.", "... there was a post originating from Russia advertising large quantities\nof red mercury for sale - stirred up a bit of controversy at the time.\nThen, this morning, NPR relates the news of a corruption scandal involving\nthe russian defense minister (among others), selling defense items, among\nwhich (strangely enough), was red mercury.\n\n\nyou don't suppose?????", "\nDo you get a dial tone when you plug a phone into the jack?? If not,\nthen the line is possibly disconnected from the nearest telco junction\nbox. If you do get a dial tone, then surely the telco is sending a bill\nfor the line to *someplace* or *somebody*. Are you sure that what you\nare doing is on the level. Sounds to me like you are just trying to get \nat somebody's unlisted number. Fess up.\n\nKeith\n\n", "\n\nLot's of these small miners are no longer miners. THey are people living\nrent free on Federal land, under the claim of being a miner. The facts are\nmany of these people do not sustaint heir income from mining, do not\noften even live their full time, and do fotentimes do a fair bit\nof environmental damage.\n\nThese minign statutes were created inthe 1830's-1870's when the west was\nuninhabited and were designed to bring people into the frontier. Times change\npeople change. DEAL. you don't have a constitutional right to live off\nthe same industry forever. Anyone who claims the have a right to their\njob in particular, is spouting nonsense. THis has been a long term\nfederal welfare program, that has outlived it's usefulness.", "=FLAME ON\n=\n=Reading through the posts about Kirlian (whatever spelling)\n=photography I couldn't help but being slightly disgusted by the\n=narrow-minded, \"I know it all\", \"I don't believe what I can't see or\n=measure\" attitude of many people out there.\n\nWhere have you seen that attitude?\n\n=I am neither a real believer, nor a disbeliever when it comes to\n=so-called \"paranormal\" stuff; but as far as I'm concerned, it is just\n=as likely as the existence of, for instance, a god, which seems to be\n=quite accepted in our societies - without any scientific basis.\n\n=I am convinced that it is a serious mistake to close your mind to\n=something, ANYTHING, simply because it doesn't fit your current frame\n=of reference. History shows that many great people, great scientists,\n=were people who kept an open mind - and were ridiculed by sceptics.\n\nFine, jackass. Suppose you point out even ONE aspect of Kirlian photography\nthat's not explained by a corona discharge.\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nCarl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL", "\nThis deserves framing. It really does. \"[Atoms] aren't even real.\"\n\nTell me then, those atoms we have seen with electron microscopes are\natoms now, so what are they? Figments of our imaginations? The\nevidence that atoms are real is overwhelming, but I won't bother with\nmost evidence at the moment.", "\n\nNo. It is very relevant. Homosexual acts and acts of beastiality are\ntopically aranged together in the law. This is very important.\nAnyone who would want to say that this command against homosexuality\ndeals with temple prostitution (and I think you would agree that there\nis no proof for this.) If the Law reveals the character of God, and \nis \"holy, just, and good\" as is written in the New Testament, then\nthose who consider we who are against commiting homosexuals acts\nto be biggots have to address this passage of Scripture. \n\nWhy must we only discuss Scriptures that involve consensual human\nadult relationships? Isn't that bordering on sophistry? The point\nwe are making is that God did not ordain certain kinds of sex acts.\nNot everyone who brings up these Scriptures is just trying to use and emotional\nargument that compares homosexuals to beastophiles and child molestors.\nThe issue we are dealing with is that some sex acts are ungodly. \n\nI do not have problem with a loving, nonlustful relationship with a member\nof the same sex. I have them, and we all do. The issue at hand is \nthe sinfulness having sex with members of the same sex, or lusting after.\nSo other forbidden sex acts are a valid topic for conversation. \n\nAnd the idea that these relationships may be emotional relationships\nbetween adult humans is red herring. We all agree that it is okay \nfor adults to have caring relationships with one another.", " That was the entire point to *you*. What exactly did I claim?\n --------------------------------------------------\n \"I've heard eye-witness descriptions of tanks using their main guns\n to respond to sniper fire. Quite effectively.\"\n --------------------------------------------------\n \n I wasn't wrong . . . I've heard those descriptions. If you're\n paying attention, I've mentioned that I saw the tanks with my own\n eyes, but the main gun firing was an account I heard. That helps\n people judge whether or not to kick in the, to use your words,\n \"bullshit filters\". Stating that I *claimed* this is a falsehood.\n \nLater in the same post:\n Another part of my memories was that while most damaged building\n were burnt, some were in rubble. Based on what I remember, I was and\n am inclined to believe an old sarge or two.\n\nFine, *now* you are stating that you believe their claims (or that you are\n\"inclined\" to. See below for a stronger statement of your beliefs). Those\nclaims are still ludicrous, however.\n\nPreviously Awesley had written:\n You can also read of the troops using grenade launchers.\n\nPrompting me to write:\n To fire fragmentary grenades? I doubt that as well. To fire concussion\n grenades? Perhaps. To fire tear gas? Certainly. But you would be\n perfectly willing to let us believe they fired frags, wouldn't you, since\n it makes your other claim seem more plausible.\n\nTo which Awesley replied:\n John, again, strawman techniques. Do you feel you're losing it so you\n have to stretch what I said and knock that down? What I read said\n nothing about what they fired. And so I put nothing in there. If you\n need some help, let me know and I'l take your side of this for a\n while. You're not scoring here, you're boring here.\n\nBut why did you mention grenade launchers at all? Because it supports the\nnotion that the tanks shelled buildings. And it supports that notion\nbecause it conjures images of troops launching fragmentary grenades. But\nthat too is ludicrous.\n\n If tanks had fired their main guns in Detroit, people would have been\n screaming about it for the past two and half decades. I would know about\n it. \n\nAwesley relied:\n Glad to know you're such an expert. Nice to hear some an\n authority. I especially appreciate your basis of knowledge -- if it\n had happened, you would have know it. Since you are such an\n authority, you probably know that people did scream about an alleged\n massive cover-up in the number of people killed in the Detroit riot.\n Some claimed 100+ dead, others said 300. The offical number is 43 but\n the Concise Columbia Encyclopedia says it was \"several\". I've also\n heard some things about that but I won't dare repeat them. You'd\n assert that I claimed they were truth.\n\nYes, if it happened I would have heard about it. Everybody would have. \nArmy tanks don't fire their cannons in American cities in the 1960's\nwithout it becoming common knowledge, without minority leaders seizing on\nit and condemning it over and over again, without civil libertarians saying\n\"this has gone far enough.\" So, yes, my never hearing of it was the basis\nfor my disbelieving the claim. Now I have more reasons to disbelieve it. \nNot one poster has written to say, yes, I lived in Detroit at that time and\neverybody knew that the tanks had fired shells. This is the UseNet. If it\nhad happened, somebody here would remember it. Furthermore, your own\nresearch failed to come up with any support for the claim. The claim is\nextraordinary and it has no supporting evidence, extraordinary or not. \nUnless you count the brags of a couple of guardsmen shooting the shit. I\ndo not.\n\n Unless you also claim that the National Guard managed to cover it up. \n\n Taking the tour after the riots, it was pretty easy to tell the \n difference between Army and Guard troops. Or so I recall from 26 \n years ago. And I seem to recall it was the Army running the tanks.\n So it would have been an Army cover-up.\n\nQuibble. Fine, it was an Army cover-up. Six years in the Reserves has\ntaught me the difference also. But do you think that in two and half\ndecades not one guilt-ridden participant has come forward and said \"yes, I\nshelled Americans,\" or \"I gave the orders to fire the cannons,\" or \"I\nhelped cover it up\"?\n\n If your mind is open enough to believe that, well, good for you. I\nprefer\n to live in reality. And here in reality, I find it hard to believe that\n those tanks even had any shells, much less fired them.\n\nAwesley replied:\n Given the level in destruction in Detroit, I'm quite willing to believe\n that they did fire their guns.\n\nGood. Then we can drop the junk about you not claiming that they did. \nYour belief fails a basic reality check: why isn't it known?\n\nAwesley concludes:\n Now then, we've bored the shit out of anyone whose bothered to read\n this far and all you've managed to say is that you don't believe the\n account I cited.\n\nActually, now we have established that I don't believe what you believe, as\nwell as why I don't believe it. And if it's boring, then I yield the last\nword to you, if you want it. You may say anything you like with\nimpunity--I am dropping the subject.", "genealogical \nold \n\nWell, since my wife is (in your gentle term) a \"bastard\", I can\nprobably speak with a bit of authority on this. Any \"stigma\"\nassociated with children conceived and/or born out of wedlock rests\nsolely upon the parents--they've committed a sexual transgression for\nwhich they should repent. The child itself has no a priori limitations\non him or her; indeed, the concept of blaming the child for the\nparents' sins is one most Mormons would find appalling; note that LDS\ntheology rejects original sin, as the term is usually defined, and the\nsubsequent need for infant baptism (cf. Moroni 8 in the Book of\nMormon). Indeed, LDS doctrine goes one step further and in some cases\nholds parents responsible for their children's sins if they have\nfailed to bring them up properly (cf. D&C 68:25-28; note that this\npassage applies it only to members of the LDS Church).\n\nAlso note that there is no \"big genealogical book in Salt Lake City\".\nThe LDS Church has a massive storage facility in the nearby mountains\ncontaining (on microfilm) vital statistic records (birth, christening,\nbaptism, marriage, death) gathered from all over the entire world. I\nmay be misremembering, but I believe they have records for some 2\nbillion people in that vault. At the same time, the LDS Church is\nbuilding up an on-line genealogical database. In neither case is there\nsome kind of \"worthiness screening\" as to whether someone can be\nentered in. The only potential issue is that of establishing who the\nparents were, and that would apply only in the case of the database.\n..bruce..\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nBruce F. Webster | I love the Constitution of this land,\nCTO, Pages Software Inc | but I hate the damned rascals that\nbwebster@pages.com | administer it. \n#import | -- attributed to Brigham Young\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n[The following arrived as a separate posting --clh]\n\nA follow-up to my own follow-up--lest anyone misunderstand, the term\n\"bastard\" is one which I have never in 25 years of LDS Church\nmembership heard applied, formally or informally, to a child born out\nof wedlock, and indeed would (rightly) be considered a vulgar,\noffensive term. I would not have echoed the expression in my reply,\nexcept in hopes that the poster would recognize the offensive nature\nof the word in the given context. Unfortunately, after posting my\nreply, I remembered that subtle points are often lost on the 'net, and\nfigured I'd better spell it out. ..bruce..", "\n\nI _know_ I shouldn't get involved, but... :-)\n\n[bit deleted]\n\n\nRighto, DAN, try this one with your Cornflakes...\n\nThe book says that Muhammad was either a liar, or he was crazy ( a \nmodern day Mad Mahdi) or he was actually who he said he was.\nSome reasons why he wouldn't be a liar are as follows. Who would \ndie for a lie? Wouldn't people be able to tell if he was a liar? People \ngathered around him and kept doing it, many gathered from hearing or seeing \nhow his son-in-law made the sun stand still. Call me a fool, but I believe \nhe did make the sun stand still. \nNiether was he a lunatic. Would more than an entire nation be drawn \nto someone who was crazy. Very doubtful, in fact rediculous. For example \nanyone who is drawn to the Mad Mahdi is obviously a fool, logical people see \nthis right away.\nTherefore since he wasn't a liar or a lunatic, he must have been the \nreal thing. \n\n--", "\n\nWhile I agree with much of this post, one point seems mis-directed...\n\n\nAnd when controlled for usage of oil, gas, etc. energy efficiency in\nall countries turns out to be identical :-)\n\nTo take population density as an example, one way to reduce energy\nused in transportation is surely to concentrate the population in\ndense urban areas (though this might, of course, have other\ndisadvantages, possibly even relating to energy use). The fact that\nJapan is forced to do this by the nature of the country, while the US\nis not, does not mean that people in the US would be unable to do this\nif given sufficient motive to conserve energy.", "\n\n\nWell, most hangings are very quick and, I imagine, painless.\n\n\nAnd, hangings and firing squads are allowed today, too. And, if these\nthings were not considered cruel, then surely a medical execution\n(painless) would not be, either.", "\nI'm very grateful for scott's reflections on this oft-quoted phrase. Could\nsomeone please remind me of the Scriptural source for it? (Rom. 12.9 doesn't\ncount, kids.) The manner in which this little piece of conventional wisdom is\napplied has, in my experience, been uniformly hateful and destructive.", "\nI read it when it first came out, and the controversy broke. Put my name\non the waiting list at the library (that way if the book was really\noffensive, none of my money would find its way to the author or\npublisher), and read it, \"cover to cover\" (to use a phrase that seems\npopular here right now).\n\nAnd I *liked* it. The writing style was a little hard to get used to, but\nit was well worth the effort. Coming from a similar background (Rushdie\ngrew up in Bombay in a muslim family, and moved to England; I grew up in\nNew Delhi), it made a strong impression on me. (And he used many of the\nstrange constructions of Indian English: the \"yaar\" at the end of a\nsentence, \"Butbutbut,\" the occasional hindi phrase, etc.)\n\nAt the time I still \"sorta-kinda\" thought of myself as a muslim, and I\ncouldn't see what the flap was all about. It seemed clear to me that this\nwas allegory. It was clear that he described some local prostitutes who\ntook on the names and personae of Muhammed's wives, and had not (as my\ngrandfather thundered) implied that Muhammed's wives were prostitutes; in\nshort, every angry muslim that had read even part of the book seemed to\nhave missed the point completely. (And I won't mention the fact that the\nmost militant of them had never even seen the book. Oops, I just did!)\n\nPerhaps in a deep sense, the book is insulting to Islam, because it\nexposes the silliness of revealed religion - why does an omnipotent deity\nneed an agent? She can come directly to me, can't she? How do we know that\nMuhammed didn't just go out into the desert and smoke something? And how\ndo we know that the scribes he dictated the Quran to didn't screw up, or\nput in their own little verses? And why can Muhammed marry more than four\nwomen, when no other muslim is allowed to? (Although I think the biggest\ninsult to Islam is that the majority of its followers would want to\nsuppress a book, sight unseen, on the say-so of some \"holy\" guy. Not to\nmention murder the author.)\n\n\nI had much the same response when I tried to talk about the book. A really\nsilly argument - after all, how many of these same people have read \"Mein\nKampf?\" It just made me wonder - what are they afraid of? Why don't they\njust read the book and decide for themselves?\n\nMaybe the reaction of the muslim community to the book, and the absence of\nprotest from the \"liberal\" muslims to Khomeini's fatwa outrage, was the\nfinal push I needed into atheism!\n\n-s", ": \n: Dear, dear. They could have COME OUT.\n: ", "\n[stuff deleted]\n\nOh my, a REAL honest-to-goodness flamewar fired up here..... and it even has\nsome relevance to motorcycling. Amazing.", " ^^^^^\n\nWhat an incrediblt sexist remark! Come now, Mike, what ever possessed you to\nmake such a un-PC remark? I hope all women out there reading this are as\nincensed as I am. Remember, WOMAN ARE JUST AS GOOD AS MEN!!!! \n\nWomen stand up for your right to be just as stupid as men. In fact, insist on\nevery oppurtunity to be even more stupid than men! You've got the right, use\nit!\n\nHey, it's a slow afternoon and I really don't want to get back to that\nreport...;)\n\nBTW: mega-smileys for the humor impaired...", "\nEven easier, my area supports 311. Dial this and a recording recites your number.\nPhone techs use it to verify an installed line.\n---\n\t\t\tGary Gendel\nVice President:\t\t\t\tCurrent consulting assignment:\nGenashor Corp\t\t\t\tMentor Graphics Corporation\n9 Piney Woods Drive\t\t\t15 Independence Boulevard\nBelle Mead, NJ 08502\t\t\tWarren, NJ 07059", "Several recent posts have identified the English word 'Easter' with\nthe Babylonian goddess 'Ishtar'.\n\n'Easter' is a pagan word all right, but it has nothing to do with Ishtar.\nIf 'Easter' and 'Ishtar' were related, their history would show it.\nBut in Old English, Easter was 'Eostre', cognate with English 'East'\nand German 'Ost'. The reconstructed Proto-Germanic form is 'Austron'.\nNot until after 1400 did 'Easter' have a high front vowel like 'Ishtar'.\nClearly, the two words have quite separate origins.\n\nThere may be neo-pagans who worship Ishtar at Easter, but if so, they\nare making either a mistake of etymology, or a deliberate play on words.\n\n-- Michael Covington (Ph.D., linguistics)\n\n\n", "# |## |#2. Professors get summers off; industry employees don't.\n# |## \n# |## What professor gets the summer off ? The primary purpose of a professor\n# |## at a university is to publish. Teaching is secondary. The summer\n# |## is when professors are able to do the research required for their\n# |## papers.\n# |#\n# |#I'm told by my advisor that only at some universities is publishing\n# |#the primary emphasis; many professors in the Cal State University\n# |#system don't publish at all. Those that prefer teaching are under\n# |#no pressure to publish.\n# |#\n# \n# When discussing and issue, it helps that all participants use the same\n# definitions, although this rarely occurs on Usenet.\n# \n# When I use the term \"university\", I think of an organization that has\n# a Bachelors, Masters, and PhD program. I believe that Cal State schools\n# do not. I call them colleges. UC schools are universities. At a univeristy\n# the number one goal is to publish.\n\nCal State University system offers bachlors and masters degrees. The\nPh.D. is not offered, because of opposition from UC.\n\n# At the Cal State schools, do the professors you speak of have PhDs? At\n\nNearly all the professors have PhDs. I haven't had a professor who didn't,\nthough my wife has had a couple of professors with just an M.A. A friend\nhad an instructor who didn't have a degree at all, but because he had\nbeen Minister of Culture for the Black Panthers, he was teaching anyway.\nHe had a bad habit of usually not showing up to teach the class, and\nfinally quit in disgust at the racism of a university that expected him\nto show up to teach.\n\n# a university you have professors with PhDs and then Teaching Assistants (TAs).\n# TAs were the slave labor, graduate students who got their tuition paid, and\n# a few hundred a month for living expenses in exchange for doing all the grunt\n# work. The professors taught the lectures, with 100 to 500 students per class,\n# then the TAs taught the labs, with 20 to 30 per class.\n# \n# Tim Fogarty (FOGARTY@SIR-C.JPL.NASA.GOV)\n\nAt Sonoma State University, typical class size is 20 to 30 per class.\nTeaching is definitely more the goal, and sometimes, it actually happens.\nThe best professors at Sonoma State U. are equivalent to the best \nprofessors I had at UCLA and USC.", "\nSince we are talking in theory and opinion, then I'll put in my $.02.\n\tFirst, a rebuttle. Personally, I love under-dogs. Unlike \nbandwagon jumpers, I abandon teams when they start winning. People that\ncheer for winners just because they are winners are insecure people who are\nafraid to be associated with something negative.\n\n\nOn this one point, I agree. The reason that people bash WASP's is \nbecause they have been on top for a long time. Whoever is on top is\ngoing to oppress whoever is below them so that they can stay on top.\nIf Hannibal had pushed on to Rome after his victory at Cannae we might\nall be bashing the blacks for oppressing us peacefull white people \nfor all these centuries. I seriously doubt that if the blacks had \nconquered the world that they would have treated their colonies any\nbetter/worse than the whites did.\n\tThe white race did some unspeakable things to the other races of\nthe world. But they only did what any other conquering race would have done\n(ie. Khan). The real question is, should we carry over that blame to the\npresent generation who didn't participate in the crimes? Would it do \nany good? Has it done Bosnia any good? They are fighting wars that stopped\nhundreds, even thousands, of years ago. \n\tMy opinion is, if there are inequities now, then let's change\nthem. But don't blame me for what my ancestors did. It wouldn't settle\nanything anyway.\n\n\nThat's where you are dead wrong. You don't join up on a side just because\nthey are winning. That makes you spineless. Winning, in high school and\nafter high school, is still the best way to be popular, but it doesn't make\nyou right. All the best causes in history were loosing causes (with only\na couple exceptions). Winning only makes a difference to other people, not\nto yourself. And what good is the opinions of other people if they only care\nhow you appear (ie. a Winner).\n\n\tIf you can't beat them, fight them every inch of the way. \n\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\"At that moment the bottom fell out of Authur's mind. Garrett Johnson\n His eyes turned inside out. His feet began to leak out Garrett@Ingres.com\n of the top of his head. The room folded flat around him, \n spun around, shifted out of existence and left him sliding\n into his own naval.\" - Douglas Adams", "\n\nAnd from whence does this right stem, that it overrides the 'rights'\nof the rest of us?\n\n\nAnd if you want to view that television station, you have to watch the\ncommercials. You can't turn them off and still be viewing the\ntelevision station. In other words, if you don't like what you see,\ndon't look. There is no 'right' I can think of that you have to force\nother people to conform to your idea of aesthetic behaviour. What's\nnext, laws regulating how people must dress and look so as to appeal\nto your fashion sense, since you have this 'right' of an aesthetic\nview? \n\n\n\n\nWhich has what to do with the topic of discussion?\n\n\n\nOh, I see. You don't want any legislation that might impinge on you;\nyou just want everyone else on the planet to do what you want.\n\n-- \n\"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live\n in the real world.\" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden", "\n\nI would expect that CD-ROM software would not even need copy protection.\nAs the program on a CD-ROM would not fit onto a hard-drive, and it is\nimpossible for the average (and even not-so-average) user to write to a\nCD-ROM, copies of the software (that still work) could never be made.\n\nHmmm.. now that I think about it.. with a creative TSR, maybe\ndisk-swapping could be used to simulate files on a single disk. You\nwould need a tonne of disks though.\n", "\n\nThe status of the House of Lords today is quite different to its status \nin 1789. \n\n\n\nMaddison and Hamilton were both studying existing forms of government for\nseveral years before they wrote the federalist papers. That the US system\nis based to a considerable degree on the UK model is pretty widely accepted.\nAt the time there was no other major country with a representative body.\nThe French plebicite had been suppressed for 140 years and its restoration\neight years later would mark the start of the French revolution. \n\nAfter the UK system the major influences were the Dutch system and of course\nthe classical systems. Nobody seriously suggests that Rome or Greece were \nmodels though because the political systems of both countries were acknowleged\ndisasters. The main lesson learnt from Greece was that unless a federal\nstate was constructed a war would be inevitable. The Greek democracies were\nalways fighting amongst themselves which is how Rome managed to invade. Had\nthe federal consitution been rejected the new Roman empire in the shape of\nBritain would quite certainly have reabsorbed much of the colonies in due\ncourse. Moreover the states would have been at each others throats as soon\nas the Louisiana purchase situation arose during the Napoleonic period.\n", "DROPLET VOL 1, No 11, Part 1\n\nA D R O P L E T\nFrom The Vast Ocean Of The Miraculous Qur'an\n\nTranslations from the Arabic and Turkish Writings of \nBediuzzaman Said Nursi, The Risale-i Noor\n\nVOL 1, No 11, Part 1\n------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n\n \t\t NINETEENTH LETTER \n\n\t\t MU'JIZAT-I AHMEDIYE RISALESI \n(A TREATISE ON THE MIRACLES OF MUHAMMAD SAW) \n(SAW: PEACE AND BLESSINGS BE UPON HIM)\n\nIn His Name (ALLAH) , Be He (ALLAH) Glorified!\nThere is Nothing But Glorifies His (ALLAH's) Praise.\n\nIn The Name Of Allah, The Compassionate, The Merciful\n\n \"He is who has sent His Messenger with\nguidance and the religion of truth to make it\nsupreme over all religion: and sufficient is Allah\nas a Witness. Muhammad is the Messenger of\nAllah, and those who are with him are firm\nagainst the unbelievers and merciful among\neach other. You will see them bowing and\nprostrating themselves, seeking Allah's grace\nand His pleasure. Their mark is on their face\nthe sing of prostrafion; this is their similitude in\nthe Torah and Indgil.\" [the Our'an 48:28-29]\n\n Since the Nineteenth and Thirhy-first Words\nconcerning the mission of Muhammad (SAW) prove his\nprophethood with decisive evidences, we assign the\nverification of that subject to those Words.\n As a supplement to them, we will merely show here\nin Nineteen Signs, some of the flashes of that great\ntruth.\n\n FIRST SIGN: The Owner and Master of this universe\ndoes everything with knowledge, disposes every affair\nwith wisdom, directs everything all-seeingly, treats\neverything all-knowingly, and arranges in everything with\nHis will and wisdom such causes, purposes and uses that\nare apparent to us. Since the One who creates knows,\nsurely the One who knows will speak, since He will\nspeak, surely He will speak to those who have\nconsciousness, thought, and speech. Since He will speak\nto those who have thought, surely He will speak to\nhumankind, whose make-up and awareness are more\ncomprehensive of all conscious beings. Since He will\nspeak to humankind, surely He will speak to the most\nperfect of mankind and those most worthy of address and\nhighest in morality, and who are qualified to guide\nhumanity; then He will certainly speak to Muhammad (SAW), \nwho, as friend and foe alike testify, is of the highest \ncharacter and morality, and who is obeyed by one fifth\nof humanity, to whose spiritual rule half of the globe has\nsubmitted, with the radiance of whose light has been\nillumined the future of mankind for thirteen centuries, to\nwhom the believers, the luminous segment of humanity,\nrenew their oath of allegiance five times a day, for\nwhose happiness and peace they pray, for whom they call\ndown Allah's blessings and bear admiration and love in\ntheir hearts.\n\n Certainly, He will speak to Muhammad (SAW),\nand Indeed He has done so; He will make him the\nMessenger, and Indeed He has done so; He will make\nhim the guide for the rest of humanity, and Indeed He\nhas done so.\n", "\n\n\nI get it. One organization wants to abolish age of consent laws,\nwhereas in contrast the other wants to abolish age of consent laws.\nThis makes it respectable to belong to one organization, but not the\nother.\n", "The White House\n\nOffice of the Press Secretary\n-----------------------------------------------------------------\n\nFor Immediate Release April 19, 1993\n\n\n\n STATEMENT OF PRESIDENT CLINTON\n\n\nI am deeply saddened by the loss of life in Waco today. My \nthoughts and prayers are with the families of David Koresh's \nvictims.\n\nThe law enforcement agencies involved in the Waco siege \nrecommended the course of action pursued today. The Attorney \nGeneral informed me of their analysis and judgment and \nrecommended that we proceed with today's action given the risks \nof maintaining the previous policy indefinitely. I told the \nAttorney General to do what she thought was right, and I stand by \nthat decision. ", "\n It is indeed different usage of the word Muslim . In Bosnia , it is more or\nless used as an ethnic term not as religious one . There are people in Bosnia\nwho refer to themselves as \"Christian Bosnian Muslims\" if you can make sense\nof that . Bosnian Serbs and Bosnian Muslims have the same language. \nBosnian Muslims are mainly beleivers of Islam. I got this from Bosnian Muslim\nfriend of mine who goes to University of Texas in Austin.", "\nthis is true.\n\n\nthis has merit but is not entirely true.\n\nthis last statement is not true. According to the CBO the United States\nhas a force of about 88,000 US Army personel in Europe, I do not know\nif this includes a USMC division in Norway. They have available\na little more than 500 USAF attack aircraft, including various models\nof the F-111, A-10, F-19A/B, and a few F-4s. {there are about 1,000\nmore of these available, SAFELY TUCKED AWAY AT HOME. At one time, the\nUS maintained 1500 MBTs {about half were M1A1} but some of these were\nrelocated to the Persian Gulf. I know the US has at LEAST one \naircraft carrier battle group nearby and probably a marine assault\nbrigade. Does anyone know if there are any B-52/B-1Bs in England?\n\nThe point is, although there are no US ground troops in Bosnia,\nit is not true that that all the american forces are safely camped\noutside of St. Louis. \n\nI also understand that the administration is planning to position\ntroops in Macedonia. Any reaction out there to this?\n\nQuestion: day before yesterday I heard that Serbia & Montenegro\nhad imposed additional trade sanctions against the Bosnian Serb Rebels.\nThis morning a NPR reported at a bridge on the Drina (sp?) verified\nthat only a bread truck was allowed to pass through to Bosnia.\nA Serbian {who happened to be muslim}, stated that just a few months\nago no vehicle even slowed for the boarder station. Now everyone\nis stopped and searched, many are turned back. Of course all I\nheard was a translators version, I do not speak Serbo-Croatian.\n\nIf this is a effort on the part of Serbia & Montenegro {for whatever reason}\nto push the Boserbs into accepting the V-O, is this not a good thing?", "\nI'll leave questions 1 and 2 to be answered elsewhere, but on question 3)\nsomething in the noos today might be an example of the restoration might be.\nNamely, that the Clinton Administration is considering asking the UN to \nestablish a police force for Haiti.\n\nI didn't hear any thing that said that the current Govt. of Haiti asked for it,\nnor is there any real precedent (barring Somalia) for the UN getting involved\nin internal conflicts.\n\nThat might also answer question 2). The neo-colonial countries are a diffuse\nlot - the UN (Security Council).\n\nAnd while I am at it, I'll take a stab at 1) - the new colonialism, as defined in\nmost articles I have read, would entail something of the nature of Trusteeship\nunder the UN Sec. Council, democracy, aid, education, free-markets, free press\nand then out for the colonialists, now assured that there is a \"civilized\" \ncountry that they have left behind.\n\nNote I don't support this idealized concept, simply because I think it is a\nlot of hogwash.\n\n-- \nSrinivas Sunder sunder@crhc.uiuc.edu\n\nIf The University of Illinois shares these views, I'd be surprised.\nThey aren't that smart generally -:).", "who: kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan)\nwhat: \nwith: rush@leland.Stanford.EDU \nwhat: <1993Apr5.050524.9361@leland.Stanford.EDU>\n \n \nKR> \"Sadly yes. Don't loose any sleep over Old 'Zlumber. Just\nKR> have some fun with him, but he is basically harmless. \nKR> At least, if you don't work in NY city.\"\n \nI don't find it hard to believe that \"Ole 'Zlumber\" really believes\nthe hate and ignorant prattle he writes. The frightening thought is,\nthere are people even worse than he! To say that feminism equals\n\"superiority\" over men is laughable as long as he doesn't then proceed\nto pick up a rifle and start to shoot women as a preemptive strike---\naka the Canada slaughter that occured a few years ago. But then, men\nkilling women is nothing new. Islamic Fundamentalists just have a\n\"better\" excuse (Qu'ran).\n \n from the Vancouver Sun, Thursday, October 4, 1990\n by John Davidson, Canadian Press\n \n MONTREAL-- Perhaps it's the letter to the five-year old\n daughter that shocks the most.\n \n \"I hope one day you will be old enough to understand what\n happened to your parents,\" wrote Patrick Prevost. \"I loved\n your mother with a passion that went as far as hatred.\"\n \n Police found the piece of paper near Prevost's body in his\n apartment in northeast Montreal.\n \n They say the 39-year-old mechanic committed suicide after\n killing his wife, Jocelyne Parent, 31.\n \n The couple had been separated for a month and the woman had\n gone to his apartment to talk about getting some more money\n for food. A violent quarrel broke out and Prevost attacked\n his wife with a kitchen knife, cutting her throat, police said.\n \n She was only the latest of 13 women slain by a husband or\n lover in Quebec in the last five weeks.\n \n Five children have also been slain as a result of the same\n domestic \"battles.\"\n \n Last year in Quebec alone, 29 [women] were slain by their\n husbands. That was more than one-third of such cases across\n Canada, according to statistics from the Canadian Centre for\n Justice. [rest of article ommited]\n \nThen to say that women are somehow \"better\" or \"should\" be the\none to \"stay home\" and raise a child is also laughable. Women\nhave traditionally done hard labor to support a family, often \nmore than men in many cultures, throughout history. Seems to me\nit takes at least two adults to raise a child, and that BOTH should\nstay home to do so!", "\n\nHere is an article I found today in comp.security.misc. I'll send my reply in\na separate post to comp.off.eff.org so thayt you guys can get original text.\nHave fun! ;(\n\nOleg\n\n Relay-Version: VMS News - V6.1B5 17/9/92 VAX/VMS V5.5-2; site nic.csu.net\n Path: nic.csu.net!csus.edu!netcom.com!netcomsv!decwrl!uunet!dove!csrc.ncsl.nist.gov!clipper\n Newsgroups: comp.security.misc\n From: clipper@csrc.ncsl.nist.gov (Clipper Chip Announcement)\n Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1993 15:17:33 GMT\n Sender: news@dove.nist.gov\n Distribution: na\n Organization: National Institute of Standards & Technology\n Lines: 280\n\n Note: This file will also be available via anonymous file\n transfer from csrc.ncsl.nist.gov in directory /pub/nistnews and\n via the NIST Computer Security BBS at 301-948-5717.\n\t---------------------------------------------------\n\n\t\t\t THE WHITE HOUSE\n\n\t\t Office of the Press Secretary\n\n _________________________________________________________________\n\n For Immediate Release April 16, 1993\n\n\n\t\t STATEMENT BY THE PRESS SECRETARY\n\n\n The President today announced a new initiative that will bring\n the Federal Government together with industry in a voluntary\n program to improve the security and privacy of telephone\n communications while meeting the legitimate needs of law\n enforcement.\n\n The initiative will involve the creation of new products to\n accelerate the development and use of advanced and secure\n telecommunications networks and wireless communications links.\n\n For too long there has been little or no dialogue between our\n private sector and the law enforcement community to resolve the\n tension between economic vitality and the real challenges of\n protecting Americans. Rather than use technology to accommodate\n the sometimes competing interests of economic growth, privacy and\n law enforcement, previous policies have pitted government against\n industry and the rights of privacy against law enforcement.\n\n Sophisticated encryption technology has been used for years to\n protect electronic funds transfer. It is now being used to\n protect electronic mail and computer files. While encryption\n technology can help Americans protect business secrets and the\n unauthorized release of personal information, it also can be used\n by terrorists, drug dealers, and other criminals.\n\n A state-of-the-art microcircuit called the \"Clipper Chip\" has\n been developed by government engineers. The chip represents a\n new approach to encryption technology. It can be used in new,\n relatively inexpensive encryption devices that can be attached to\n an ordinary telephone. It scrambles telephone communications\n using an encryption algorithm that is more powerful than many in\n commercial use today.\n\n This new technology will help companies protect proprietary\n information, protect the privacy of personal phone conversations\n and prevent unauthorized release of data transmitted\n electronically. At the same time this technology preserves the\n ability of federal, state and local law enforcement agencies to\n intercept lawfully the phone conversations of criminals. \n\n A \"key-escrow\" system will be established to ensure that the\n \"Clipper Chip\" is used to protect the privacy of law-abiding\n Americans. Each device containing the chip will have two unique\n\n\n\t\t\t\t 2\n\n\n \"keys,\" numbers that will be needed by authorized government\n agencies to decode messages encoded by the device. When the\n device is manufactured, the two keys will be deposited separately\n in two \"key-escrow\" data bases that will be established by the\n Attorney General. Access to these keys will be limited to\n government officials with legal authorization to conduct a\n wiretap.\n\n The \"Clipper Chip\" technology provides law enforcement with no\n new authorities to access the content of the private\n conversations of Americans.\n\n To demonstrate the effectiveness of this new technology, the\n Attorney General will soon purchase several thousand of the new\n devices. In addition, respected experts from outside the\n government will be offered access to the confidential details of\n the algorithm to assess its capabilities and publicly report\n their findings.\n\n The chip is an important step in addressing the problem of\n encryption's dual-edge sword: encryption helps to protect the\n privacy of individuals and industry, but it also can shield\n criminals and terrorists. We need the \"Clipper Chip\" and other\n approaches that can both provide law-abiding citizens with access\n to the encryption they need and prevent criminals from using it\n to hide their illegal activities. In order to assess technology\n trends and explore new approaches (like the key-escrow system),\n the President has directed government agencies to develop a\n comprehensive policy on encryption that accommodates:\n\n\t-- the privacy of our citizens, including the need to\n\t employ voice or data encryption for business purposes;\n\n\t-- the ability of authorized officials to access telephone\n\t calls and data, under proper court or other legal\n\t order, when necessary to protect our citizens;\n\n\t-- the effective and timely use of the most modern\n\t technology to build the National Information\n\t Infrastructure needed to promote economic growth and\n\t the competitiveness of American industry in the global\n\t marketplace; and \n\n\t-- the need of U.S. companies to manufacture and export\n\t high technology products.\n\n The President has directed early and frequent consultations with\n affected industries, the Congress and groups that advocate the\n privacy rights of individuals as policy options are developed.\n\n\n\n\t\t\t\t 3\n\n The Administration is committed to working with the private\n sector to spur the development of a National Information\n Infrastructure which will use new telecommunications and computer\n technologies to give Americans unprecedented access to\n information. This infrastructure of high-speed networks\n (\"information superhighways\") will transmit video, images, HDTV\n programming, and huge data files as easily as today's telephone\n system transmits voice.\n\n Since encryption technology will play an increasingly important\n role in that infrastructure, the Federal Government must act\n quickly to develop consistent, comprehensive policies regarding\n its use. The Administration is committed to policies that\n protect all Americans' right to privacy while also protecting\n them from those who break the law.\n\n Further information is provided in an accompanying fact sheet. \n The provisions of the President's directive to acquire the new\n encryption technology are also available. \n\n For additional details, call Mat Heyman, National Institute of\n Standards and Technology, (301) 975-2758.\n\n ---------------------------------\n\n\n QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ABOUT THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION'S\n TELECOMMUNICATIONS INITIATIVE\n\n\n\n\n Q: Does this approach expand the authority of government\n\tagencies to listen in on phone conversations?\n\n A: No. \"Clipper Chip\" technology provides law enforcement with\n\tno new authorities to access the content of the private\n\tconversations of Americans.\n\n Q: Suppose a law enforcement agency is conducting a wiretap on\n\ta drug smuggling ring and intercepts a conversation\n\tencrypted using the device. What would they have to do to\n\tdecipher the message?\n\n A: They would have to obtain legal authorization, normally a\n\tcourt order, to do the wiretap in the first place. They\n\twould then present documentation of this authorization to\n\tthe two entities responsible for safeguarding the keys and\n\tobtain the keys for the device being used by the drug\n\tsmugglers. The key is split into two parts, which are\n\tstored separately in order to ensure the security of the key\n\tescrow system.\n\n Q: Who will run the key-escrow data banks?\n\n A: The two key-escrow data banks will be run by two independent\n\tentities. At this point, the Department of Justice and the\n\tAdministration have yet to determine which agencies will\n\toversee the key-escrow data banks.\n\n Q: How strong is the security in the device? How can I be sure\n\thow strong the security is? \n\n A: This system is more secure than many other voice encryption\n\tsystems readily available today. While the algorithm will\n\tremain classified to protect the security of the key escrow\n\tsystem, we are willing to invite an independent panel of\n\tcryptography experts to evaluate the algorithm to assure all\n\tpotential users that there are no unrecognized\n\tvulnerabilities.\n\n Q: Whose decision was it to propose this product?\n\n A: The National Security Council, the Justice Department, the\n\tCommerce Department, and other key agencies were involved in\n\tthis decision. This approach has been endorsed by the\n\tPresident, the Vice President, and appropriate Cabinet\n\tofficials.\n\n Q: Who was consulted? The Congress? Industry?\n\n A: We have on-going discussions with Congress and industry on\n\tencryption issues, and expect those discussions to intensify\n\tas we carry out our review of encryption policy. We have\n\tbriefed members of Congress and industry leaders on the\n\tdecisions related to this initiative.\n\n Q: Will the government provide the hardware to manufacturers?\n\n A: The government designed and developed the key access\n\tencryption microcircuits, but it is not providing the\n\tmicrocircuits to product manufacturers. Product\n\tmanufacturers can acquire the microcircuits from the chip\n\tmanufacturer that produces them.\n\n Q: Who provides the \"Clipper Chip\"?\n\n A: Mykotronx programs it at their facility in Torrance,\n\tCalifornia, and will sell the chip to encryption device\n\tmanufacturers. The programming function could be licensed\n\tto other vendors in the future.\n\n Q: How do I buy one of these encryption devices? \n\n A: We expect several manufacturers to consider incorporating\n\tthe \"Clipper Chip\" into their devices.\n\n Q: If the Administration were unable to find a technological\n\tsolution like the one proposed, would the Administration be\n\twilling to use legal remedies to restrict access to more\n\tpowerful encryption devices?\n\n A: This is a fundamental policy question which will be\n\tconsidered during the broad policy review. The key escrow\n\tmechanism will provide Americans with an encryption product\n\tthat is more secure, more convenient, and less expensive\n\tthan others readily available today, but it is just one\n\tpiece of what must be the comprehensive approach to\n\tencryption technology, which the Administration is\n\tdeveloping.\n\n\tThe Administration is not saying, \"since encryption\n\tthreatens the public safety and effective law enforcement,\n\twe will prohibit it outright\" (as some countries have\n\teffectively done); nor is the U.S. saying that \"every\n\tAmerican, as a matter of right, is entitled to an\n\tunbreakable commercial encryption product.\" There is a\n\tfalse \"tension\" created in the assessment that this issue is\n\tan \"either-or\" proposition. Rather, both concerns can be,\n\tand in fact are, harmoniously balanced through a reasoned,\n\tbalanced approach such as is proposed with the \"Clipper\n\tChip\" and similar encryption techniques.\n\n Q: What does this decision indicate about how the Clinton\n\tAdministration's policy toward encryption will differ from\n\tthat of the Bush Administration? \n\n A: It indicates that we understand the importance of encryption\n\ttechnology in telecommunications and computing and are\n\tcommitted to working with industry and public-interest\n\tgroups to find innovative ways to protect Americans'\n\tprivacy, help businesses to compete, and ensure that law\n\tenforcement agencies have the tools they need to fight crime\n\tand terrorism.\n\n Q: Will the devices be exportable? Will other devices that use\n\tthe government hardware?", "Yes, that's true, but you have to be clear exactly what is\nan uninterpreted observation. It's pretty low level stuff.\n'The sun shines' is already a LOT higher level than that. We\ncan agree that 'I perceive brightness' perhaps.\n\nHuh? What do you mean 'all in the same situation?' Let's take me\nand Dennis Kriz as examples. We're in pretty different situations,\nbut I think we can agree as to whether it's day or night. I don't\nthink we can agree as to whether or not abortion is morally\nacceptable. Yet we are certainly in the same difference of\nsituations with respect to each other. Looks like weasel-words\nto me, Frank. \n\nThat's up to you, I guess.\n\nThis 'different situations' stuff is pretty confusing, Frank. How\ndo we decide if we are in the same situation? You mind explaining?\n\nHuh? I don't think so. I think that people disagree about\nfundamental goals.\n\n-Ekr\n", "Last night I heard something about Bill Clinton's sister being\ninvolved in a marijuana bust, and the news being suppressed. I also\nheard something about her being an \"ex-con\". This source is not\nreliable, though. (It was a collage/booklet advertising a local band.)\n\nCan anyone on the net verify this or provide more details? I'm\nsurprised I haven't seen anything about this in this newsgroup.\n\nAlso, does anyone know what happened to the charges that Shalala was a\nregular pot smoker when she was in college? This ghastly accusation\nwas reported on CNN Streamline News the day she was nominated, then I\nnever heard anything about it again.\n\nIt's almost enough to make me want to start an Act-Up type campaign\nto invade the privacy of closet smokers! (If only this type of\npublicity didn't violate people's rights. . . .)\n\nJake.", ":\n\nI'm responding at the risk of misreading your response, but I do have to tell \nmy fellow conservatives to give it up, attacking Reno/Clinton/ATF/FBI.\n\nThey may have botched an operation, but they didn't kill anybody who never shot\nat them first. David Koresh was a frigging lunatic. His followers had the \ncombined I.Q of a Geraldo audience. The kids probably would have been those\nfucked up social rejects who go to Freshman dances in high school, never to be\nseen again (except maybe in the band) until prom, when they show up like \nanimals boarding the ark. Then it's bowling till 3 in the morning..... \n(WHY....WHY?? did it happen to me??!!)\n\nAnyway, the point is Janet Reno/Bill Clinton were only following the advice of \ntrained, law enforcement officials who were experts in their fields. I'd \nrather have our leaders do that then micro-manage every crisis that comes \nalong. Then you'd really see trouble no matter what party or ideology the \nPresident and her (er.. I mean his) Attorney General is.\n-- \nRyan C. Scharfy", "\n\nI think that domestication will change behavior to a large degree.\nDomesticated animals exhibit behaviors not found in the wild. I\ndon't think that they can be viewed as good representatives of the\nwild animal kingdom, since they have been bred for thousands of years\nto produce certain behaviors, etc.", "\n\n\nI think the answer to Mr. Mayamsky's question can be found in the\nfirst amendment to the US Constitution.\n\n\tAmendment I (1791)\n\n\tCongress shall make no law respecting an establishment of\n\treligion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or\n\tabridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the\n\tright of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition\n\tthe government for a redress of grievances.\n\nSteve", "\nThat is absolutely correct. They have a streak of meanness that runs much\ndeeper and stronger than anything I ever experienced even during the height\nof the 60's racial struggles. I am absolutely convinced that there are\nkids out there today that have no concept of right and wrong, but have the\nhuman intelligence which is turning them into the greatest predators that\nhave ever walked the earth. They will prevail unless the rest of humanity\ndecides that it is in their best interest to stand up against these feral\nhumans, and for individuals to start taking some responsibility for their\nown protection. In a state in which the individuals turn to the authorities\nand police for protection, the police and government is soon composed of\nthe very feral humans that they originally sought protection from.\n\nGee, I guess you touched my hot button. I'd better go cool off somewhere.\n\n", "Wanted: Summer sublet in NW DC, on red Metro line. Have own bedroom, but can\n share common areas with others. Apartment or room for $400 or less.\n Move in Memorial Day weekend through end of August. No smokers.", " >say they have a \"history of untrustworthy behavoir[sic]\"? ", "\nI found the personal attacks on Prof. Denning pretty disgusting.\nI don't agree with all her positions; but I think scholars can\ndisagree without the argument getting into the gutter.\n\nIf these personal attacks are what stopped Prof. Denning from\nreplying on issues of substance, they have cause real harm\nto the serious debate here.", "Good luck.\n\n", "\n\nCOD is fine until the buyer opens the box to find they paid 150.00\nfor a brick. Or if it the seller allows for a personal check to be used\non a COD it's fine till a stop payment is made. There are few methods\nto protect both buyer and seller in any sort of transaction. Even with\nmerchants and customers there are problems...stolen credit cards, \nchargebacks, no return policies and getting the wrong item, etc.\n\nAbout the only protection available to to do business with someone you\ntrust....someone who has been around for a while.\n\nJeff\n\n\n________________________________________________________________________", " \u001e\u001e\u001e\u001e\u001e\u001e\u001e\u001e\u001e\u001e\u001e\n\nSince it is a Life Time membership, you won't have to worry about it\nuntil your next life.\n", "\nI think all connections in Norway can handle touchtone dialing.\n\nThe Oslo-region has one system, the rest of the country another system.\n\n(Almost right for pulsdialing.)\nSome phones have a little switch inside, so you are able to use them\nall over Norway, or you can just renumber the numbers on your phone.\n\n\n", "\nOn the other hand, remember the old adage that a verbal agreement isn't worth\nthe paper it's printed on. Once you sign, you are going to have one hell of a\ntime proving fraud based on a comparison to what you thought you were going to\nsign ...\n\nBeing in the right is one thing, proving it is another.", "\n\n\n\nIf you don't agree with Joseph's accurate statement of the Catholic dogma\nof Mary's perpetual sinlessness, then how do you interpret Luke 1:28,\n\n\tAnd when the angel had come to her, he said, \"Hail, full of \n\tgrace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women.\"\n\nand Luke 1:48? \n\n\t...for, behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.\n\nI suppose that these verses might be interpreted to mean that Mary was\npossessed of some limited quantity or quality of grace, just as some of \nfilled to the brim, incapable of containing more. The only other people we \nknow of who have an abundance of grace are those souls existing in heaven now \n(another Catholic dogma, based on the communion of saints, as I explained in \nan earlier post). Full of grace to me means sinless, and anyone who has \never sinned in his life cannot be without sin in the same sense as Mary \nwas sinless. \n\nAs a Catholic, I too find certain of the dogmas tough to embrace. But\nthat's where the Catholic faith and prayer come into play. I pray God\nto strengthen my will to accept the faith given the bride of Christ,\nwhich in turn usually strengthens my community faith in His Church. And,\nas you probably know, faith in Christ's Church is tantamount to faith in\nChrist inasmuch as the Church is Christ's Mystical Body. A Catholic by\nnature must have two aspects to his faith in Christ: (1) a personal faith in \nChrist as his own personal redeemer and (2) a community faith in the Church \nas the body of Christ.\n\n \n-- \nRandal Lee Nicholas Mandock \nCatechist\ngt7122b@prism.gatech.edu ", "\n[Jesus' comments about how Christians have to follow the OT deleted...]\n\n\nExodus 31:12-17. How many people have you put to death for working on\nthe Sabbath?\n\n\nLeviticus 17:10. How as that medium-rare steak last night?\n\n\nLeviticus 19:19. What did you wear to work friday?\n\n\nDeutromony 18:1. I can you can now justify discrimination.\n\n\nRight.\n\n\nShe is.", "A Alan Brock 4/14/93 Orange County Register Editorial titled \"A case for\n repealing the income tax\" got my attention.\n\n Some quotes:\n\n \"... a tax on income, because of the flexible definition of that\n concept, invites the government to snoop into every nook and\n cranny of our lives. Encouraging people to snoop on one another\n and report transgressions against the almighty state, which most\n Americans deplored in Nazi or communist regimes...\" \n\n \"... Although most Americans paid no income tax at all 50 years ago\n -- withholding began only during World War II, as a \"temporary\"\n exigency, and in 1948 the median family federal income tax was $9...\"\n\n \"Last year the federal government got only 37 percent of its income\n from income taxes... How long ago was it that the federal government\n somehow managed to stagger along on 63 percent of its 1992 revenue?\n ... Would you believe five?...\"", " ajteel@dendrite.cs.Colorado.EDU (A.J. Teel) writes...\n\nOn whose authority do you have this and on what grounds was it \ndismissed?\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\tDaniel Reitman\n\nHOW NOT TO WRITE A DEED\n\nOne case involved the construction of a conveyance to grantees \"jointly, as \ntenants in common, with equal rights and interest in said land, and to the \nsurvivor thereof, in fee simple. . . . To Have and to Hold the same unto the \nsaid parties hereto, equally, jointly, as tenants in common, with equal rights \nand interest for the period or term of their lives, and to the survivor thereof \nat the death of the other.\"", "\n\n\nNow, on the other hand, Juan Gonzales probably DOES have a shot at\n324 HR's. ;).\n\n\n\n\n\nActually, you might be underpredicting? ;)\n\n-------------------------------------------------------\nEric Roush\t\tfierkelab@\tbchm.biochem.duke.edu\n\"I am a Marxist, of the Groucho sort\"\nGrafitti, Paris, 1968\n\nTANSTAAFL! (although the Internet comes close.)", "\nI'm not sure it is a major limiting move... in the academic circles\nI've seen, arguing for increased government intervention and\nmanagement is almost always a plus (not the least because it usually\nmeans more high paying jobs for academics as \"advisors\"). Also\nconsider that it looks like Denning has some decent NSA / government\nconnections, which is always a plus for an academic institute that\nwants more government funding and work tossed their way.\n\nDespicable, yes; career limiting, well, the publicity probably\noutweighs the drawbacks. And there are a whole bunch of people who\nthink the whole thing is just peachy keen. If it's only going to be\nused against drug dealers, child pornographers, and terrorists, well\nit must be good. :p", "Are breathable liquids possible?\n\nI remember seeing an old Nova or The Nature of Things where this idea was\ntouched upon (it might have been some other TV show). If nothing else, I know\nsuch liquids ARE possible because...\n\nThey showed a large glass full of this liquid, and put a white mouse (rat?) in\nit. Since the liquid was not dense, the mouse would float, so it was held down\nby tongs clutching its tail. The thing struggled quite a bit, but it was\ncertainly held down long enough so that it was breathing the liquid. It never\ndid slow down in its frantic attempts to swim to the top.\n\nNow, this may not have been the most humane of demonstrations, but it certainly\nshows breathable liquids can be made.", ":>On the subject of CS/CN/tear gas: when I received my initial introduction to\n:\n:You couldn't find a window after six hours? \n:\n:-- \n: Daniel A. Hartung -- dhartung@chinet.chinet.com -- Ask me about Rotaract\n\nHave you ever been violently sick repeatedly? I have, and it was difficult to \ndrag myself back to my bed, much less move through a building full of smoke and\ndebris, especially when most likely already disoriented from lack of sleep and\nconstant psychological abuse... Throw in the fact that the 'safety' outside\nconsists of people who have shot at me and thrown grenades at me, and are\ncurrently knocking my house down with tanks, I could understand if the BD's\nwere inclined to stay put in the center of the building...\n\n\n", ": >But if entertainment (company) sell computer programs saying they are virus \n: >safe. Doesn`t they have burden of proof that viruses don`t exist in their \n: >floppies ?\n\n: I don't think so. The assumption is there. If it turns out that\n: their software has a virus, then it is up to you to prove that fact\n: to a court to get any damages. You are theoretically suppossed to \n: be able to get damages for that, but you have to give some evidence\n: that the virus came from that software. But since the computer\n: company is the defendent, they are uninvolved until proven guilty.\n\nAll right. I'm not and won't be lawyer. What about doctors?\nI going to fly aeroplane (or drive car). Doctors have to look for different\nkind of illnesses in me before I get permission to fly an aeroplane.\nThey have burden of proof that \"harmful illnesses don't exist in me\",\ndo they ?\n\n(I'm just questioning my belief that believers have the burden of proof.)\n\n: Please, not Pascal! NOOOOO!! ;)\nOh! Are you those bug-generator C-programmers ? :-)\nTurbo Pascal is the BEST and FASTEST for edit-run-edit-run cycles !\n----------------------- ktikkane@phoenix.oulu.fi -------------------\n Kari Tikkanen ! . . -#- ! b ! begin ", "\n\n\n\nI don't think that this is accurate. I believe, and could be wrong, that\nthere IS a specific right allegedly to have been violated, like the\n14th or due process or whatever.\n\n\nDouble jeopardy does not apply, but not for the reasons you quote. Double\njeopardy states that a person may not be tried twice on the same charge.\nHowever, the police are not on trial for the crime of excessive force\nor assault. They are NOW on trial for the DIFFERENT crime of violating\nMr. King's civil rights. \n\nAS for the city and county or state trying you more than once, \nit most likely will not happen. This is because cities and states\nhave separate laws governing behaviour. For example, in some states,\nit is an offence to carry marijuana, but not a city offence. Also,\nI think murder is against federal, but not some state laws. ", "\n\nWhat he said. Most of my friends refer to them as \"ground magnets.\" One\n\n\n\n", "Posted for L. Neil Smith by Cathy Smith\n\n\n THE LIES OF TEXAS\n\nOkay, what have we learned?\n\nFor reasons still being kept secret, a federal agency already known \n-- well enough to be examined and rebuked by several legislative \ncommittees over the years -- for a longstanding, violent disregard\nof the law, invades the home of a man whose religious beliefs and \npersonal habits they abominate, violating his rights under the \nFirst, Second, Fourth, Fifth, Ninth, and Fourteenth Amendments to \nthe Constitution. \n\nThe man and his followers fight back, killing four of the outlaw \nagency's minions, wounding many more, and suffering their own \nlosses in the process. The agency responds by cutting off his \nelectricity, water, and especially his contact with the outside \nworld. They are then free to say anything at all about him -- in \npronouncements that contradict one another daily as the agency \nfinds itself locked in a bitter power struggle with another outfit \neager to gain credit for \"straightening out the mess\" -- and, more \nimportantly, to script his side of the subsequent \"negotiations\" \nany way they please. \n\nThe impasse lasts almost two months, ironically, at the same time \nfour L.A. cops are being given a second trial for brutalizing a \nsingle individual, sparking one of the ugliest riots in history. \nArmored vehicles surround the house, already ringed with snipers \nusing scoped, high-powered rifles. Loudspeakers playing obnoxious \nrecords at the highest possible volume, and searchlights, deprive \nthose in the house of sleep (in the aftermath, nobody in authority \nwill mention the effect this technique, originated by North Korean \nCommunists as a battle tactic, may have had on their judgment). \n\nFinally -- another irony -- on the 50th anniversary of the rising \nof the Warsaw Ghetto, some of the armor punches holes in the house \nand gas of some kind is injected. The house bursts into flame and \nis reduced to ashes in less than an hour. At least 80 lives, \nincluding those of more than a dozen children, are snuffed out. \n\nSpokesmen for the outlaw agencies, the Attorney General, and the \nPresident all hold press conferences to articulate a common theme: \nblame the victim. \n\nHe had illegal weapons -- as soon as they can be prepared in a \nsecret government workshop and planted among the cinders being \n\"examined\" by the agency that created them. He was abusing children \n-- the tapes will be stored with the data on the JFK assassination. \nHe set the fire -- our snipers saw him doing it. Film at 11 -- in \n3000 A.D. He shot his followers who tried to escape -- or was that \nJim Jones? Best of all, he's dead -- he can't say a damn thing to \nembarrass us, any more than when his contact with the world was \nsevered at the start of the whole travesty. \n\nA leading national paper claims 93% of the American people believe \nthat a man who resisted a savage attack on his home is somehow \nresponsible for everything that resulted. But when did you ever \nknow 93% of Americans to agree on anything -- doesn't this sound \nmore like the outcome of a Soviet election than an opinion poll? \n\nVery well, what can we infer from the above? For starters, never \nforget that, although Democratic careers are on the line (and \nrightfully so) over this fiasco, by the outlaw agency's admission, \nit was planned and rehearsed by a Republican administration. Which \nmay explain why Paul Harvey, who evidently used up all his courage \nand integrity changing his mind (at about the same time I did) \nabout the war in Viet Nam -- has been acting as little more than a \nmouthpiece for a state that has no regard for the Bill of Rights. \n\nMore importantly, when Rush Limbaugh, who's been a quivering tower \nof Jello during the whole thing, takes essentially the same stance \nas Bill Clinton, it's time for fundamental changes, if not in the \nsystem, then at least within yourself. \n\nOn March 5, back at the beginning, Mary Gingell, national chair of \nthe Libertarian Party, issued a press release condemning the outlaw \nagency and calling for its abolition. In fact, the LP has promised \nin its platform since 1977, for at least 16 years, to abolish both \nagencies involved in Waco. I'm proud to say I was there and helped \nto write that plank. \n\nTrue, the LP is tiny and insignificant (although less so than in \n1977 -- ask the Democrats in Georgia if you doubt it). But, alone \nin a howling wilderness of fascists scrambling now to cover their \nbehinds with phony polls and Big Lies, the LP is right about what \nhappened in Waco. And if their advice had been followed in 1977, \nWaco never would have happened. \n\nThink about it. And think about the fact that, if you've had enough \nof political parties more interested in collecting and holding \npower -- at whatever cost to the Bill of Rights, let alone human \nlife -- than in defending and expanding individual liberty, maybe \nthe change it's time for within yourself is to make the LP less \ntiny and insignificant by a single voice and a single vote.\n\nThink about it.\n\nL. Neil Smith\nAuthor: THE PROBABILITY BROACH, THE CRYSTAL EMPIRE, HENRY MARTYN, \nand (forthcoming) PALLAS\nEditor: LEVER ACTION BBS (303) 493-6674, FIDOnet: 1:306/31.4\nLibertarian Second Amendment Caucus\nNRA Life Member", "\nSuch a measure would also have another benefit. It would relieve the\nvarious states of the thorny problem of what to do with the hundreds\nof millions of dollars hunters pour into the economy annually. I'm\nsure that, to attain sure a lofty, humane, liberal and ecologically\n(not to mention politically) correct goal, the environmental and animal\nrights groups/individuals supporting such a measure would be more than\nwilling to add their names to a list of supporters seeking increased\ntaxation to replace these lost revenues. I am equally confident that\nthese same entities, given their noteworthy record in the area of social\nresponsibility and respect for private property, would feel morally\nand ethically bound to raise the necessary funds to acquire the\nhundreds of thousands of acres of land now held in private hands\nsolely for use as private hunting preserves by the landowner(s). To\ndo less than this would place these same groups/individuals in\nthe ethically untenable (to say nothing of environmentally and\npolitically incorrect) position of sanctioning the logging and\nsubsequent development and urbanization of these former private\nhunting lands, which would no longer be useable by, or of any\nbenefit to, the landowner(s) in such a capacity.", "greetings..\nI'm a novice in this area. I'm trying to gather info. on standard\nphone line settings.\nquick questions :\n > if I just want to send out a beep over the phone lines,\n can I do it with some function generator & tie it up to\n one of those phone wires ??\n > which one of those wires should I connect to my DTMF chip\n as AUDIO IN ??\n \nany help would be much appreciated..", "\nDidn't expect to find you in the Devil's role, Stephen, but these are\nthe times that try men's souls.\nNine months, as I understand it. No doubt this accounts for a \nsignificant amount of the time as government efficiency in spending\nour tax dollars would certainly seek its absolute minimum in such\nan event. But my gut instinct says there is more at hand. It took\nsome careful preplanning to demonize D.K. to such an extent. The\nattack meshes well with more restrictive gun control legislation\nthat seems to be the agenda of the day. It also fits a pattern of\nincreased government interference in personal religious beliefs.\n[Randy Weaver is now on trial].\n\nNo quarrel here. The BIG BANG theory is always apt at appropriation\ntime. They just don't have to possess a single motive.\n \n\nI certainly think publication of the warrant undermines the government's\ncase since it makes no claims of illegal action. Therefore the federal\njudge had reason to seal it. But I am reminded of Senator Frank Church's\nremark that \"secrecy is the trademark of a totalitarian government.\"\nThere is rarely sufficient motive to seal a warrant in a nation of\nfree people.\n\nHow can I argue with irrefutable logic? I have long suspected that\nthe government has become a mindless machine and now you go and\nconfirm my worst fears! Has it become a BEAST that is programmed\nsimply to say \"Kiss my toe and you get your piece of the pie?\"\nI suspect bugs in the program arise when agents or those who love\nthis critter have independent thoughts.\n \n\nAnd watching Terminator II.\n\nYes, 186 seeds for a new Republic. And 86 for...?\n Rev. 11:10...And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice\n\t\tover them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one\n\t\tto another; because these two prophets tormented them\n\t\tthat dwelt on the earth.\n\nStephen, have you sensed that some have been rejoicing lately....?\n\n", "\nYes, but... shouldn't size of newsgroup be an issue? Sorry if this\nhas been covered before, but comp.grahpics.animation get how much \ntraffic per day? 50 articles? Maybe 70 on an extremely heavy day?\nI've been following this group for about four months now, and I don't\nrecall ever seeing such a flood of posts that a split would be warranted.\n\nJust my 2 cents,", "try finding a friend that has caller id, then give him a call...\n\njb\n\n\n\n Path: shearson.com!uupsi!psinntp!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!nic.umass.edu!risky.ecs.umass.edu!umaecs!alee\n From: alee@ecs.umass.edu\n Newsgroups: sci.electronics\n Date: 18 Apr 93 15:04:10 GMT\n Lines: 13\n\n\n Greetings!\n\n\t Situation: I have a phone jack mounted on a wall. I don't\n\t\t know the number of the line. And I don't want\n\t\t to call up the operator to place a trace on it.\n\n\t Question: Is there a certain device out there that I can\n\t\t use to find out the number to the line?\n\t Thanks for any response.\n\t\t\t\t\t\t Al\n\n\n--", "[heats of formation deleted]\n\nThe major problem with this is that the reaction takes place in an ACID solution.\nPbSO4 is soluble in an acid solution and will not precipitate out. Also, H2SO4\nis in a water solution as 2H30+ and SO4--. Thus the heats of formation of\nPbSO4 and H2SO4 are for the most part irrelevant.\n\n\nAs it turns out the reaction is indeed exothermic (heat producing).\n(More about this later.)\n\nWhat actually happens to make the battery completely useless is this:\n(we're talking lead-acid batteries of course)\nThe battery slowly self discharges. As this discharge takes place two things\nhappen. -The level of Pb++ ions in the acid solution increases (i.e. the lead\n and lead oxide plates are dissolved).\n -The level of H30+ ions in the acid solution decreases (i.e. the solution\n becomes less acidic, or more like water if you like).\nNow, as the post to which I am responding correctly stated, PbSO4 will precipitate\nin a WATER (non-acid) solution. When the battery dies (i.e. is fully discharged)\nwe end up with a high concentration of Pb++ and SO4-- in water. So PbSO4\nforms in the solution and FALLS TO THE BOTTOM OF THE BATTERY (of course this\nhappens in varying degrees, the more discharged, the more precipitate forms).\n\nThe precipitate forms a conductive layer on the bottom of the battery. If\nthere is enough of the lead and lead oxide plates left to touch the precipitate\n(more common in a newer battery) a dead short results.\n\nI have seen products in automotive shops to correct this condition, but they\nare for the most part useless. They can dissolve the PbSO4 but cannot restore\nthe lead and lead oxide plates properly. You may have some success with\nthese products for a newer battery.\n\n[stuff deleted]\n[stuff deleted]\n\nThis stuff is just made up by the author and is completely invalid.\nIn fact the discharge reaction takes place at a higher rate at higher\ntemperatures. A logical consequence of the above argument is this:\n\"If you really want your car to start, lower the battery temperature to\n -50 to 'pull' the reaction along.\" We all know from experience (at\n least those of us in Canada do (it gets cold up here)) that this is\nnot true. If we want to start our car on a really cold day we warm\nthe battery.\n\n(Besides which, there is not enough energy released through self discharge\n to appreciably raise the temperature. The air would amply dissipate any\n such heat, whether the bottom of the battery was insulated or not. This\n is of course irrelevant, since you would WANT the battery to be cool\n during storage.)", "\nYou're getting warmer. The 'little thing in the trigger' has to be\ndepressed before the trigger can move. What this means is the damned\nthing won't go off until the trigger is pulled. This makes it just\nabout (there HAVE been some problems, but we're assuming the gun is\nfunctioning correctly..) as safe as a revolver. The gun when working\ncorrectly is totally drop safe.\n\nNow, in police work this is a consideration. There is not a single\ndocumented case I'm aware of where a police officer was killed because\nhe failed to operate the safety on his firearm. There are quite a few\ndocumented cases where criminals got hold of the cops gun and couldn't\nfigure out how to get the safety off in time to use the gun, thus the\nproprietary nature of the safety (to the criminal at least) very likely\nprevented the office from getting shot.\n\nThe purpose of a safety is to make the gun safe from unintentional fire.\nThis does not mean it should be so complicated as to slow down\nintentional use! Thus the Glock safety is perfectly adequate from a\n'safety' standpoint, but not necessarily the most desirable from the\nstandpoint of open carry where it is easily grabbed by somebody else.\nBy this criteria it DOES make a lot of sense as a concealed carry piece.\nFrom the standpoint of police use, it is no better (or worse) than a\nrevolver as far as being 'proprietary' to the officer in the method of\nfiring it.\n\nThe ideal solution may someday be biometric sensing of the user so that\nthe firearm can't be used by anybody but it's owner, but for now the\nwide variety of safety systems helps, unless the criminal happens to be\nfamiliar with that particular type of firearm.", "\n\tThere should be no worries about the trans.\n\n\n\tDoes this count?\n\n$ cat dod.faq | mailx -s \"HAHAHHA\" jburnside@ll.mit.edu (waiting to press\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t return...)\n\nLater,", "The fact that Reno is actually taking responsibility (gee--that's a new\none for a politician) is a new thing for a member of Clinton's administration.\nI actually respect her for having a backbone ( I never thought I'd say\nthat about someone from that bunch).\n\nThe way I understand what happened is that she discussed with Clinton\nwhat was being planned for Waco. Clinton didn't say no, so gave de\nfacto approval for the operation. Things got messed up, and a lot of\npeople died horrible deaths. (if I am incorrect about this, please \nfeel free to correct it. This is just what I've been able to pick \nup.)\n\nI've just got a couple of questions about this whole thing.\n(1) Why did the government feel they needed to assault that compound?\n(2) Why didn't they try to flush them out in the first week of\n this fiasco instead of waiting 50 days.\n(3) Janet Reno jumped up to take responsibilty to take heat away\n from the President. Does this sound anything like what a couple\n of Reagan's aides did?", "\n\n\n\n\n\tPaul-\n\n\tYou did a wonderful job of not doing anything humany possible to \noffend us Catholics; hopefully I can be just as careful in my wording as you\nwere.\n\tI also don't want to extend this topic into an entire major issue of\ndebate (anymore than it already is), but just a note or two:\n\n\t1. Please don't talk about Jesus' \"parents\"--the doctrinal positions\n\t\tof the church an unequivocally different regarding Mary and\n\t\tJoseph. I (personally) have never heard of anything being\n\t\tattributed to St. Joseph other than his sainthood; that is,\n\t\tno reference *ever* to him being sinless, assumed into heaven,\n\t\timmaculately conceived, etc.--all these ideas apply only to\n\t\tMary.\n\n\t2. I would agree there is very little scriptural evidence for our\n\t\tdoctrines about Mary. Needless to say, that presents a \n\t\tsignificant problem to those who accept the bible as the only\n\t\tsource of doctrine. If, however, one turns to the sacred \n\t\ttraditions of the undivided Christian Church, there is no\n\t\tproblem finding plently of evidence that it was basically a\n\t\tunanimous belief among the apostles and all the early \n\t\tgeneration that Mary was assumed into heaven, body and soul,\n\t\tetc. etc. It wasn't until the reformation that these doctrines\n\t\twere called into question. As far as I am concerned (again, my\n\t\tpersonaly feelings) if it's a choice between the apostles or\n\t\tLuther, I'll choose the apostles every time, whether or not\n\t\tit is recorded within the writings that the traditions of men\n\t\thave determined to be \"the bible\".", "\n\n\nThis is true. The statement didn't say anything about Christians in general.\nIt specifically said \"strict fundamentalist\" Christians. It reflects a\ncommon perception that people have about fundamentalists being strict\ndisciplinarians. Whether or not this perception is justified is another issue.\n", "\n\tThis is a real address. My understanding of the current process\nthat mail takes is it gets downloaded on floppy disk and is processed\nby retiree volunteers, who match the message against message profiles\nand check the message count. (I.e.: \"yeah, that's a for gays in the\nmilitary. what's this clipper stuff? must be against gays in the\nmilitary...\")\n\n\tThe higher-volume white-house email stuff is in the works,\nI know for a fact, but won't be online for probably another month\nor two at the soonest. My understanding is that the link speed will\nincrease (direct internet instead of Compu$erve to floppy) but the\nmessage processing will remain the same.\n\n\n\tThe white house email does get read. I agree that printing it\nand sending Cc: to everyone you can think of is probably better because\nit is more visible, but the message processing (fitting messages against\na template) is the same in either case.", "\n\nWhich means he has absolutely no idea about what the Assumption is.\n\nHowever greatly we extoll Mary, it is quite obvious that she is in no\nway God or even part of God or equal to God. The Assumption of our\nBlessed Mother, meant that because of her close identification with the\nredemptive work of Christ, she was Assumed (note that she did not\nASCEND) body and soul into Heaven, and is thus one of the few, along\nwith Elijah, Enoch, Moses (maybe????) who are already perfected in\nHeaven. Obviously, the Virgin Mary is far superior in glorification to\nany of the previously mentioned personages.\n\nJung should stick to Psychology rather than getting into Theology.", "William December Starr writes...\n\nin a typical lawyer baiting fashion, as usual. \n\n(All the while ignoring every principle of the ACLU.)\n\nGood to see your still out there WDS. Surely we've\nbeen around the ring enough by now, that you know \nyou can't spin me up with expletives. \n\nLet's see if there's anything left worth responding to...\n\n\nE for effort. Heard about the folks who live around foghorns and \nairports?\n\n\nSeems right in character to me -- creature of the state. \nBtw, are you still happy with your presidents?\n\n\nSee the part about the children following the \"and\" in the first line\nabove. \n\nAs to a connection, your \"cult\" is \"faith in rules\". \n\n\nSure. My concern is the well being of the children. \n\n\n{Interesting that you would respond \"emotionally\" in defense of the \ngovernment. Maybe there is a beating heart there.}\n\nFor the record though, the biggest-baddest goverment on earth claims \nthe most sovereignty over man. Best I can tell God allows anyone to\ngo to hell who wants to. Omnipotency logically determines that \"allowing\"\nand \"sending\" mean the same thing. (Mere human concepts of course.)\n\nSo come on WDS. Why bother to try some flimsy facade of logic. Waco\nproves it's not needed -- the demonstration that government can walk\nover it's own rules in the name of justice has been made. No problem \nby me. Noted and announced -- for the record. Just giving the govern-\nment it's due, and getting back to more worthwhile non-government \nconcerns. ", "\njubilee, Pope >Leo the 12th had a medallion cast with his own image on\none side and on >the other side, the Church of Rome symbolized as a\n\"Woman, holding in >her left hand a cross, and in her right a cup with\nlegend around her, >'Sedet super universum', 'The whole world is her\nseat.\"\n\n\tYou read more into the medal than it is worth. The Woman is the\nChurch. Catholics have always called our Church \"Holy Mother Church\"\nand our \"Mother.\" An example would be from St. Cyprian of Carthage, who\nwrote in 251 AD, \"Can anyone have God for his Father, who does not have\nthe Church for his mother?\"\n\tHence the image of the Church as a woman, holding a Cross and a Cup,\nwhich tell of the Crucifxition of Our Lord, and of the power of His\nBlood (the grail legend, but also, more significantly, it shows that\n\"This is the Cup of the New Covenant in my blood, which shall be shed\nfor you and for many.\" (Luke 22.20), the Cup represents the New Covenant\nand holds the blood of redemption). The fact that the woman is holding\nboth and is said to have the whole world for her seat, is that the\nCatholic Church is catholic, that is universal, and is found throughout\nthe world, and the Church shows the Crucifixtion and applies the blood\nof redemption to all mankind by this spread of hers, thorugh which the\nHoly Sacrafice of the Mass, can be said and celebrated in all the\nnations as Malachi predicted in Malachi 1.11, \"From the rising of the\nsun to its setting, my name is great among the gentiles, and everywhere\nthere is sacrafice, and there is offered to my Name a clean oblation,\nfor my Name is great among the gentiles, says the Lord of hosts.\" And\nso we acknowledge what St. Paul wrote \"For as often as you eat this\nbread and drink this cup, you show the Lord's death until he comes.\" (1\nCorinthians 11.26)\n\n\tYou are quite right about the identification of \"Babylon the Great,\nMother of all Harlots\" with Rome. I think we simply disagree as to what\ntime period of Rome the Apostle John is talking about.", ": BULLSHIT!!! In the Gulf Massacre, 7% of all ordnance used was \"smart.\" The\n: rest - that's 93% - was just regular, dumb ol' iron bombs and stuff. Have\n: you forgotten that the Pentagon definition of a successful Patriot launch\n: was when the missile cleared the launching tube with no damage? Or that a\n: successful interception of a Scud was defined as \"the Patriot and Scud\n: passed each other in the same area of the sky\"?\n: \n: And of the 7% that was the \"smart\" stuff, 35% hit. Again - try to follow me\n: here - that means 65% of this \"smart\" arsenal missed.", "Does anyone know of the whereabouts of technical reports that\nI can access via the Internet?\n", "or so days.\nincident\nYou seem to make two points. No one ultimately oversees the federal agencies \nyou mention, and since Koresh \"apparently\" has a different view point from your \nBaptist upbringing, then he is not worthy of protection from religious \npersecution. As to being the Messiah, is not Christ within us all?\n\nMust be comforting to belong to a government approved religion.\n\nBaptists are a cult, two, BTW, under most of the definitions in the dictionary \nof \"cult\".\n\nJim\n--\njmd@handheld.com", "\nWhen you force people to associate with others against their will,\nyes.\n\n", "I am willing to pay a reasonable amount for AIRLINE CERTIFICATE/VOUCHER,\nAM LOOKING FOR:\n\t\t1) CERTIFICATE/VOUCHER THAT IS VALID FOR A ROUND-TRIP\n\t\t TICKET (COAST TO COAST OR ANYWHERE IN US)\n\t\t2) TRANSFERRABLE TO MY NAME", "\nWell, let's delve one level deeper. Why is democracy better than tribalism or\nother means of Govt.? The President of Georgia was elected with a thumping\nmajority and booted out later, w/ no objections from the UN. Similarly, the\npeople of Algeria elected an Islamic Fundemantalist Party into power but the\njunta declared it illegal. In both cases, I personally have _no_ problems with\nthe outcome, but if the voice of the people is that hallowed thing that the \nworld community claims to revere so, why isn't it interfering there? \n\n.\nExactly. My point is that it will inevitably turn out that way, and we can save\nourselves a lot of pain and trouble by simply letting people sort out their\nproblems on their own. Colonial interventions, even in Haiti, haven't worked \nin the past. They had a 102 coups from 1845-1915. The US invaded in 1915. And left\nin 1933, almost 17 years after they had intended to. Was it a success? Well,\nlook at Haiti today and of the past 40 years and decide for yourself. It _was_\na success so long as the US was in, from what I remember. But it didn't last\nlong, obviously.\n\n\nNobody did. People should have a right to self-defense. If the UN wants to arm\nthe Bosnians or Haitian revolutionaries or whoever, I have no problems with\nthat. I do when they cross that line and attempt to re-arrange boundaries, govts.\netc., the Vance-Owen plan being one such piece of insanity.\n \n\nWe finally have a clearly-stated point of difference. Colonialism can\nhave its good side, which is as you stated above - removing thugs from being\nable to lord it over powerless people. I am worried that the bad side is what \nwill assert itself, and I am prepared to let natural forces take their course \nif that will mean we can avoid the bad side of colonialism.\n\n\n-- \nSrinivas Sunder sunder@crhc.uiuc.edu\n\nIf The University of Illinois shares these views, I'd be surprised.\nThey aren't that smart generally -:).", "In Texas (Well, Corpus Christi anyway) if you pick up the phone and dial\n890 the phone company will read back the number to you.\nTry it. It might work.\n\n", "\nWhich, considering the amount Bush&congress added to it, would be a\nnot-inconsiderable achievement.\n\nWhile we're on the subject, I also believe that the supply-side claim that\nreducing taxes raised revenue is also false, because they typically factor in\nSocSec taxes, which were *raised* a considerable amount, at the same time that\nincome taxes were cut. If you look at income tax revenue alone, it fell after\nafter the cuts began, and didn't recover for several years. By then, record\ndeficits were well entrenched.\n\n*crunch, crunch*", "}\n}> Drugs are banned, please tell me when this supply will dry up?\n}\n}Drugs are easier to manufacture, easier to smuggle, easier to hide.\n}\n}No comparison.\n\nYou, sir, are an ignorant fool who knows nothing about either the drug\nbusiness or the gun business.\n\nTim Starr - Renaissance Now!\n\nAssistant Editor: Freedom Network News, the newsletter of ISIL,\nThe International Society for Individual Liberty,\n1800 Market St., San Francisco, CA 94102\n(415) 864-0952; FAX: (415) 864-7506; 71034.2711@compuserve.com", "\n\n\n\n\nSheesh! I don't know what kind of women they have where you guys live,\nbut there are some ladies here who will blow your doors off. Or at least\nthey will try to, but we just can't let the youngsters get too uppity\nwith us old folks :-).", "Is there anybody who has (or can point me in the right direction) any\ninformation about protected mode? Also interested in protected mode viewed from\na OS point of view.", "%\n%By Elias Davidsson - April 1991 (Revision Oct. 1991)\n\nNote - you are already posting \"facts\", some of which are outdated.\n\nThe biased presentation of facts, as well as the conclusions that\nyou reach leave me little hope of engaging in any fruitful\nexchange that might lead to a \"meeting of the minds\". It is to those\nwho read with open mind, that I address myself.\n\n%The International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of\n%Racial Discrimination adopted by the General Assembly of the\n%United Nations in 1965, has now been ratified by most member\n%states. Article 1 of this Convention defines the term racial\n%discrimination as \"any distinction, exclusion, restriction or\n%preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic\n%origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing\n%the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of\n%human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic,\n%social, cultural or any other field of public life.\"\n\nWhile the ideals embodied in this text are worthy goals,\nas the text currently stands I know of no country in which\nracial discrimination of some sort can not be found.\nIt makes no mention of the need for for a legislative\nviolation.\n\n%The General Assembly endorsed in 1975 a resolution defining\n%Zionism as a form of racism and racial discrimination. The\n%important, correct and legitimate resolution is incomplete since\n%it does not include operative statements designed to end Israeli\n%racial discrimination. Meanwhile the United States, on behalf of\n%Israel, are exerting heavy pressure on member states of the United\n%Nations to repeal this resolution and give Israeli racial\n%practices - Zionism - moral legitimacy.\n\nIf you are, in principle, advocating UN intervention via operative\nstatements in this case, it must therefore hold that they can be\napplied to any other case where the council perceives some form\nof racial discrimination as previously exhibited.\n\nScarey thought.\n\n%The very definition of Israel as a State belonging to the Jews of\n%the world (but not to its inhabitants), alienates all native\n%non-Jews born in that country. \n\nActually, I know quite a few native non-Jews born in Israel that are not\nalienated by this law. If you had said some, you would probably be\ncorrect, however your tendency to exagerate and slant facts becomes\napparent. This slant permeates the text.\n\n%Practically all non-Jews who are living in or originate from areas\n%under Israeli control, identify themselves as Palestinians. Most\n%of them are Muslim, many are Christian. A few Jews, including the\n%author of these lines, also identify themselves as Palestinians.\n\nThe above statement is not true. Practically all - discounting\nBeduins, Circassians, Druze, and some other fringe groups.\nYour own identification is a matter that has no bearing upon the\nissue. You could equally identify yourself as a [insert group].\n\n%Zionism took off in Europe at the end of last century. It's aim\n%was to create a Jewish state in Palestine in spite of the adamant\n%opposition of Palestinian Arabs (95% of the population).\n\nIf I recall correctly, at the time \"zionism\" took off, there\nwas no adamant opposition in Palestine. I am open to any\nfactual contradictory evidence .\n\n%But the\n%Zionists were more powerful, militarily, economically and\n%technologically, and succeeded in 1948 in conquering 70% of the\n%area of Mandatory Palestine. After driving into exile most native\n%Arabs from the conquered areas, approximately 750,000 people, and\n%razing most of their villages to the ground, the Zionists could\n%finally establish a predominantly Jewish State. Only 150,000\n%non-Jews remained on Israeli territory.\n\nDo you therefore contend that the 400 villages you mention further on \"most\nof their villages\"?\n\n%Once the Jewish State was established, it began enacting laws to\n%help the confiscation of land from native non-Jews, their\n%political repression and their destitution.\n\nThere is no doubt that laws passed provided a framework which was later\nused for these purposes. However, you seem to imply that this was the\nintention a priori, which implies a policy and agenda. My knowledge was\nthat this was not the case.\n\nYou also neglect to mention the circumstances that surrounded\nthis. As you do again, below.\n\n%In 1967 the State of Israel invaded Egypt and Syria and occupied\n%the rest of Palestine (the West Bank and the Gaza strip). Thus\n%another 1.5 million Palestinians fell under its juridiction. Its\n%occupation of Palestinian and other Arab territories is considered\n%illegal by the international community, as reflected in Security\n%Council resolutions. Israel has rejected all U.N. resolutions and\n%began without delay to entrench its occupation and rule over these\n%territories with the aim of annexing them at the appropriate time.\n\nNot quite accurate. Israel has not rejected all the resolutions,\nthough it has conflicting understanding with regards to some of them.\nIsrael never annexed the Sinai, West Bank, or Gaza. The other\nannexations were brought about partly due to the UN resolutions.\n\n%Part of these territores, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights,\n%have already been forcefully annexed by Israel, in defiance of\n%international law and UN resolutions.\n\nOut of curiousity, provided that the annexees are granted citizenship,\nwhat int'l law do you claim prohibits annexation of territories\ncaptured in war? Has this ever been applied to any other country\npreviously (other than Iraq) ?\n\n%It must be emphasized that, although these people live under\n%different regimes, they are united in their self-perception as\n%Palestinians, that is as people identifying with Palestine, a\n%territorial entity (not an ethnic or religious entity).\n\nIncorrect! Palestinians themselves claim to be discriminated against\non an \"ethnic or racial\" basis. Therefore your above statement is\nincorrect.\n\nI also note that given the previous definition of racial discrimination,\nthe only means that you could argue for that is nationalistically.\nHowever, no such nation has existed. It definitely did not exist\nat the time of the creation of Israel, in which case you can not\nargue racial discrimination during that period!\n\n%Furthermore Palestinians generally consider the PLO both as a\n%symbol of national identity and as the unchallenged authority that\n%represents them in world affairs.\n\nOnce again, some do, some don't.\n\n%The non-Jewish population living in the Palestinian and other Arab\n%territories occupied by Israel in 1967 suffers not only blatant\n%discrimination but is subject to brutal military occupation.\n\nAnother generalization, but then again, you don't seem to care\nabout anyone other than the Palestinian people, whose cause you\nespouse.\n\n%licence, to start a business and to buy industrial equipment, the\n%right to educate children, all of these basic rights are subject\n%to arbitrary rulings by military authorities and cannot be\n%challenged in court.\n\nIncorrect once again. They have the ability to appeal.\nFurthermore, although you may not agree with them, not all\nof the military rulings are senseless or arbitrary. Some\nare, but this is not due to the \"whims\" of the military as\nmuch as the sizeof the task/organization.\n\n%Only Jewish inhabitants of the occupied\n%territories are permitted to carry firearms.\n\nIncorrect once again. I know two Arab policemen who lived in\nDaheisha and there were more. Of course, with the outbreak of\nthe intifada they were forced by the locals to resign, bitterly.\n\n%Jewish settlers have\n%right to 6-7 more water per person than non-Jews. Jewish residents\n%of these territories number now about 100,000 people. It is Israel\n%governmentUs policy to increase this number substantially, in\n%total defiance of international law, UN resolutions and the will\n%of the population. The State of Israel systematically confiscates\n%land from non-Jewish inhabitants of these territories for Jewish\n%settlement.\n\nThat is no longer true, and I can't help but wonder what your\npurpose is/was in posting this.\n\n%Some 800,000 people in Israel proper,are not Jews. Most of them\n%consider themselves Palestinians with Israeli citizenship. For\n%many years after the establishment of Israel they were subjected\n%to harsh military control. Much of their land was confiscated by\n%the State and handed to Jewish organisations for exclusive Jewish\n%settlement. They have been subject to massacres, destitution and\n%humiliation. While they enjoy, with Jewish Israelis, the right to\n%vote, they are discriminated against both through law and in\n%practice.\n\nOnce again, to hell with the other minorities that don't fit in,\nright? Their are many villages who did not suffer in the way\nyou seem to indicate, Abu Gosh comes to mind. Yes, some did but\nas a result of what actions?\n\n%Approximately 92% of the surface of the State of Israel within the\n%Rgreen lineS is for all purposes closed to Palestinians who are\n%second-class citizens in Israel. They may neither legally live on\n%such land, nor rent or cultivate it. A direct effect of these\n%policies is that native non-Jewish citizens of Israel are denied\n%residence and membership rights in most rural communities in\n%Israel, including the collective settlements, kibbutzim. Non-Jews\n%are discriminated against in many other ways: The Government\n%starves local authorities of Palestinian villages and townships of\n%funds; Jewish city councils force Palestinians to live in ghettos;\n%Jewish families receive higher child allocations than their\n%non-Jewish neighbors, Palestinian schools suffer underfunding and\n%understaffing (as compared to Jewish schools); Palestinian\n%children are denied the right to learn their history and\n%literature; Israelis who struggle for equal rights and for the end\n%of racial discrimination, suffer continuous harassment by the\n%authorities.\n\n1. There are some kibbutzim with Arab/Non-Jewish members.\n It is up to the members of the kibbutz. There is no\n legislation against it, nor against a purely non-Jewish\n collective.\n\n2. Funds are the result of political lobbying. Bearing in mind\n that non_Jews compose ~20% of the voting population, it has\n never failed to amaze me that they fail to form one large\n bloc, and increase their power. The recent elections are a case \n in point.\n\n3. Please provide factual evidence supporting your allegation\n with regard to educational material. You have obviously\n never seen the curriculum of a school in the West Bank.\n It is based upon Jordan's school system.\n\n4. With regard to your last statement, it is simply another\n gross generalization. \n\n%The State of Israel refuses to acknowledge itself as the State of\n%all its inhabitants. Although the Israeli Cabinet has never\n%openly endorsed the 'transfer' idea (the forced removal from the\n%country of its native Palestinian population, that is, its\n%ultimate Judaization), Israeli government policies towards\n%non-Jews bear the mark of this 'Final Solution'. No attempt is\n%made by the Zionist authorities to integrate Palestinian Arabs\n%into Israeli public life. Thus, although comprising approximately\n%17% of the population of Israeli citizens, no Palestinian citizen\n%of Israel has ever served as Cabinet member, as director of \n%ministry or of a national institution, as judge of the Supreme\n%Court, as ambassador of Israel, or in any leading position in\n%Israeli economic or financial life. Even the director of the\n%Ministry for Arab Affairs - yes, such a thing exists! - is a Jew.\n\nAnother generalization, but lets not stop here.\nThe transfer idea was espoused by one party in the last gov't,\nMoledet. It was intended to be a solution to the problem in the\nterritories, not the country itself. With regard to other items,\nI recall at least one Arab ambassador, and the rest was covered\npreviously.\n\n%Although sexual\n%relations between and cohabitation of Jews and non-Jews are legal,\n%they are considered by Israeli/Zionist society somewhat a betrayal\n%of the Jewish and Zionist ethics. The Israeli educational system\n%nurtures this attitude in a systematic way.\n\nWhen was the last time you were in Israel? That is simply not true,\nnor has it been for quite some time. The question of religious\nintervention is best answered by the proportional representation and\nthe lack of any Arab party bloc to counter the orthodox one.\n\n%Zionism rejects the idea of a modern secular state, based on\n%equality of all citizens. This is one main reason why Israel has\n%not produced any written Constitution. \n\nSimply incorrect.\nThe answer is political. Once again, your failure to understand the\ndynamics and movements inside Israeli gov't, relegates your\ncontentions to the sidelines.\n\n%Zionism predicates a state\n%where Jews have privileged rights. Thus, according to Israeli law,\n%a Jew born in London, who has never visited Israel, does not speak\n%Hebrew and professes atheism, is granted automatic Israeli\n%citizenship, while native Palestinian inhabitants who happen to be\n%Christian or Muslim, are treated almost as aliens. Racial\n%discrimination, as defined in international law, is thus not only\n%reflected in Israeli laws and policies, but is grounded in the\n%very nature of Israel as a Jewish state.\n\nBut the discrimination is not based upon race.\nOops, sorry, nasty habit I have of countering malicious false truths.\n\n%Any proposal for Israeli-Arab and Israeli-Palestinian peace that\n%does not address the issue of racial discrimination by Israel -\n%that is the Zionist nature of the State of Israel - is thus doomed\n%to fail.\n\nReal world intrusion - any proposal that does is doomed to fail.\nOf course, I wouldn't expect you to understand, wrapped up as\nyou are in your VIEW of things. Let's not let anything penetrate\nshall we!?! I may be a bit too sarcastic but there is a limit to the\namount of patience I have for rubbish at 02:00.\n\n\n", "\nWell, I know one person who is ready to kill. Me. And the victim is\nthis whole topic, damnit. \n\nPLEASE STOP COPYING ALL THIS CRAP TO comp.org.acm. PLEASE?\n-- ", "\nTake up residence in a fantasy world. \n", "I'm a 2600 hacker from The Old Days. Let's see how much trouble I can\nget into by telling you what you want to know... ;-}", "\nCanada's GST is collected as a sales tax and is considered a VAT.\nFunnily, the previous hidden wholesale tax that it replaces was\nnever referred to as a tax (or, people never paid mind to it,\nthus the uproar when it was brought up front as the GST --- \none party has actually campaigned on hiding the tax again).\n\nThe stated intent of the Tories was to use the GST to write down\nour deficit. Unfortunately, their legislation didn't include any\nmechanism for disbursing the collected funds in such a manner and\nthe money is now sitting in escrow. I don't know what is involved\nin releasing the funds, but one dilemna is that the Tories are not\nfiscal conservatives themselves though while taxing and spending,\nthey've made moves to apply the breaks to a runaway locomotive by\nthe end of this time --- the end of their second term (~9 years).\nWhile they do have chances of getting a third term, catching up\nin the polls to their more moderate/slightly leftish pro-business\nrivals, the Liberals (as in Euro/UK), the Tories' heir-apparent \nfor the leaders' mantle has been termed a clone of Hillary \nClinton ...\n\ngld", "\n\n\nThe people on usenet are clearly a special bunch. We live the net, which\nis the future of our culture. Usenetters have rapid electronic access to\ninformation. Society in general must depend on CNN. \n\nI can only hope we can make this information accessable by the public before\nthe radical fringe, which _is_ the majority, destroys the fabric of\nthis country. Freedom is never easily won.", "\nthis is a tesrt\ns\n", "\nAnd the initiative for actual implementation. Clinton is not just an\ninnocent bystander here - They didn't just slap his name on it without\nconsulting him. What exactly is his extensive history of individual\nrights advocacy that people are assuming he really has nothing to do\nwith this? He just went back on his pledge to cut the espionage\nbudget, and is now asking for more money than even Bush wanted.", "\n\nFor example, if it were instinctive not to murder...\n\n\nSo, only intelligent beings can be moral, even if the bahavior of other\nbeings mimics theirs? And, how much emphasis do you place on intelligence?\nAnimals of the same species could kill each other arbitarily, but they\ndon't. Are you trying to say that this isn't an act of morality because\nmost animals aren't intelligent enough to think like we do?", "\nRight. So all the cops will be buying antique muscle cars for chase cars;\notherwise the *police* cars will die too!\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\n | To get the attention of a large animal, be it an\n | elephant or a bureaucracy, it helps to know what\nGeorge Patterson - | part of it feels pain. Be very sure, though, that\n | you want its full attention.\n | Kelvin Throop", "\n\n\nThe answer to your second question lies in the way you phrased the\nfirst one: 'the media is...'.\n\nThe medis isn't 'is'. The media 'are'. 'Media' means 'more than one\nmedium.' There are thousands of publications. Some say this, some say\nthat. \n\n How can the bulk of the people be informed, when they won't read\n informative publications?", "\n[...]\n[...]\n\nSo what? Justices William Brennan, Thurgood Marshall, John Paul\nStevens, and Byron White are associated with a plurality Supreme Court\ndecision that prevented the removal of \"anti-American, anti-Christian,\nanti-Semitic, and just plain filthy\" books from a public high school\nlibrary [_Board of Education v. Pico_ (1982)]. Does this mean that\nthey could no longer defend free expression and privacy?\n\n- Carl", "\nIn 1860:\n\nregion total population free blacks % slaves %\nU.S. 32,227,616 487,070 1.5% 3,953,818 12.3%\nConfederacy 9,103,332 132,760 1.5% 3,521,110 38.7%\nUnion Slave States 3,212,041 128,158 4.0% 432,586 13.5%\nAll Union States 23,124,284 354,310 1.5% 432,708 1.9%\nUnion \"Free\" States 19,912,243 226,152 1.1% 122 0.0%\n\n", "\n\nWell, from an Islamic viewpoint, homosexuality is not the norm for\nsociety. I cannot really say much about the Islamic viewpoint on homosexuality \nas it is not something I have done much research on.", "Apartment for rent in downtown Moscow!!!\n\n2- room furnished apartment in a very nice location. 5 minutes walk to\nBelorusskaya subway station. Walking distance to Kremlin, major shopping\ncenters, theaters, restaurants, and government buildings.\n\nAvailable in early June.\n\nPlease, call:\n\n(614)-459-4256", "\n\nWell, so are we, and we see it completely different than you. Guess it's a\nmatter of perspective.\n", "\n:Lighter fluid is butane. It's absolutely non-toxic but is an extreme fire\n ^^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n:hazard. You definately don't want to go splashing this stuff around.\n:(Use a little on an old rag.)\n\nButane : \"A colourless flammable gaseous alkane...\"\n\nNon-toxic? It has some effects when you inhale, allegedly, which can't all be down\nto asphyxia (IMHO).\n\n\n\n\n---", "[ideas that are claimed not to work deleted...]\n\nHow about putting your system inside a faraday cage? Even I could build\none...\n/Jim\n", "\nI went there too. All I can say is\n\n\"TOO MUCH TRASH\".\n\n", "Here is a press release from the Natural Resources Defense Council.\n\n New Data Show About 100 Major U.S. Water Supplies Vulnerable To\nMilwaukee-Type Disease Outbreak\n To: National Desk, Environment Writer\n Contact: Erik Olson or Sarah Silver, 202-783-7800, both\n of the Natural Resources Defense Council\n\n WASHINGTON, April 14 -- Internal EPA data released\ntoday by the Natural Resources Defense Council reveals that about\n100 large water systems -- serving cities from Boston to San\nFrancisco -- do not filter to remove disease-carrying organisms\nleaving those communities potentially vulnerable to a disease\noutbreak similar to the one affecting Milwaukee.\n The EPA list is attached.\n \"These internal EPA documents reveal that the safety of water\nsupplies in many American cities is threatened by inadequate\npollution controls or filtration,\" said Erik Olson, a senior\nattorney with NRDC. \"Water contamination isn't just a problem in\nBangladesh, it's also a problem in Bozeman and Boston.\"\n \"As of June 29, 1993, about 100 large surface water systems on\nEPA's list probably will be breaking the law. The 1986 Safe\nDrinking Water Act requires all surface water systems to either\nfilter their water or fully protect the rivers or lakes they use\nfrom pollution,\" Olson continued. Some systems are moving\ntowards eventually implementing filtration systems but are\nexpected to miss the law's deadline.\n Olson pointed out that the threat of contamination is already\na reality in other cities. A 1991 survey of 66 U.S. surface\nwater systems by water utility scientists found that 87 percent\nof raw water samples contained the Milwaukee organism\ncryptosporidium, and 81 percent contained a similar parasite\ncalled giardia.\n Adding to the level of concern, a General Accounting Office\nstudy released today by House Health and Environment Subcommittee\nChairman Henry Waxman indicates serious deficiencies in the\nnation's system for conducting and following through on sanitary\nsurveys of water systems.\n \"This new information raises a huge warning sign that millions\nof Americans can no longer simply turn on their taps and be\nassured that their water is safe to drink. We must immediately\nput into place programs to protect water sources from\ncontamination and where this is not assured, filtration equipment\nmust be installed to protect the public,\" Olson noted. \"The time\nhas come for many of the nation's water utilities to stop\ndragging their feet and to aggressively protect their water from\ncontamination; consumers are prepared to pay the modest costs\nneeded to assure their water is safe to drink.\"\n NRDC is a national non-profit environmental advocacy organization.\n\n Systems EPA Indicates Require Filtration and Do Not Adequately\nProtect Watersheds\n\n CONNECTICUT\n\n Bridgeport Bridgeport Hydraulic Co.\n\n MASSACHUSETTS\n Boston H2O Resource Author (MWRA)\n Medford MWRA-Medford Water Dept\n Melrose MWRA-Melrose Water Dept\n Hilton MWRA-Hilton Water Dept\n Needham MWRA-Needham Water Division\n Newtoncenter MWRA-Newton Water Dept.\n Marblehead MWRA-Marblehead Water Dept\n Quincy MWRA-Quincy Water Dept\n Norwood MWRA-Norwood Water Dept\n Framingham MWRA-Framingham Water Div\n Cambridge MWRA-Cambridge Water Dept\n Canton MWRA-Canton Water Div-DPW\n Chelsea MWRA-Chelsea Water Dept\n Everett MWRA-Everett Water Dept\n Lexington MWRA-201 Bedford (PUO WRKS)\n Lynn MWRA-Lynn Water & Sewer Co\n Malden MWRA-Malden Water Division\n Revere MWRA-Revere Water Dept\n Woburn MWRA-Woburn Water Dept\n Swampscott MWRA-Swampscott Water Dept\n Saugus MWRA-Saugus Water Dept\n Somerville MWRA-Somerville Water Dept\n Stoneman MWRA-Stoneman Water Dept\n Brookline MWRA-Brookline Water Dept\n Wakefield MWRA-Same as Above\n Waltham MWRA-Waltham Water Division\n Watertown MWRA-Watertown Water Division\n Weston MWRA-Weston Water Dept\n Dedham MWRA-Dedham-Westwood District\n Winchester MWRA-Winchester Water & Sewer\n Winthrop MWRA-Winthrop Water Dept\n Boston MWRA-Boston Water & Sewer Co\n S. Hadley MWRA-South Hadley Fire Dist\n Arlington MWRA-Arlington Water Dept\n Belmont MWRA-Belmont Water Dept\n Clinton MWRA-Clinton Water Dept\n Attleboro Attleboro Water Dept\n Fitchburg Fitchburg Water Dept\n Northampton Northampton Water Dept\n North Adams North Adams Water Dept\n Amherst Amherst Water Division DPW\n Gardner Gardner Water Dept\n Worcester Worcester DPW, Water Oper\n Westboro Westboro Water Dept\n Southbridge Southbridge Water Supply Co\n Newburyport Newburyport Water Dept\n Hingham Hingham Water Co\n Brockton Brockton Water Dept\n\n MAINE\n Rockland Camden & Rockland Water Co\n Bath Bath Water District\n\n NEW HAMPSHIRE\n Keene City of Keene\n Salem Salem Water Dept\n\n VERMONT\n Barre City Barre City Water System\n Rutland City Rutland City Water Dept\n\n NEW YORK\n Glens Falls Glens Falls City\n Yorktown Hts Yorktown Water Storage & Dist\n Rochester Rochester City\n Henrietta Henrietta WD\n Rochester MCWA Upland System\n Rochester Greece Consolidated\n New York NYC-Aquaduct Sys (Croton)\n Chappaqua New Castle/Stanwood WD\n Beacon Beacon City\n Mamaronek Westchester Joint Water Works\n\n PENNSYLVANIA\n Bethlehem Bethlehem Public Water Sys\n Johnstown Greater Johnstown Water Auth\n Lock Haven City of Lock Haven-Water Dept\n Shamokin Roaring Creek Water Comp\n Harrisburg Harrisburg City\n Hazleton Hazleton City Water Dept\n Wind Gap Blue Mt Consolidated\n Apollo Westmoreland Auth\n Fayettville Guilford Water Auth\n Humlock Creek PG&W-Ceasetown Reservoir\n Springbrook PG&W-Waters Reservoir\n Wilkes Barre PG&W-Gardners Creek\n Wilkes Barre PG&W-Hill Creek\n Wilkes Barre PG&W-Plymouth Relief\n Altoona Altoona City Auth\n Tamaqua Tamaqua Municipal water\n Waynesboro Waynesboro Borough Auth\n Pottsville Schuykill Co Mun Auth\n\n VIRGINIA\n Covington City of Covington\n Fishersville South River Sa Dist-ACSA\n\n SOUTH CAROLINA\n Greenville Greenville Water Sys\n\n MICHIGAN\n Sault Ste Marie Sault Ste Marie\n Marquette Marquette\n\n MONTANA\n Butte Butte Water Co\n Bozeman Bozeman City\n\n CALIFORNIA\n San Francisco City & County of San Fran\n\n NEVADA\n Reno Westpac\n\n IDAHO\n Twin Falls Twin Falls City\n\n WASHINGTON\n Aberdeen Aberdeen Water Dept\n Centralia Centralia Water Dept\n\n -30-", "Reposted by request ... these images are great, but they are also LARGE\n(1500x1500 pixels is a typical size). Be warned.\n\n\t\t\tregards, tom lane\n\n-------------\nFrom: rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires)\nNewsgroups: comp.archives\nSubject: [rec.arts.books] Vatican Library Exhibit at Library of Congress ONLINE\nDate: 14 Feb 1993 22:02:59 GMT\nX-Original-Newsgroups: rec.arts.books\nX-Original-Date: 1 Feb 1993 03:09:17 GMT\n\nArchive-name: auto/rec.arts.books/Vatican-Library-Exhibit-at-Library-of-Congress-ONLINE\n\n\nThis is from another newsgroup; looks quite interesting...\nrms\n\n\n ANNOUNCING\n a new\n ONLINE EXHIBIT\n from\n THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS\n\n\n\n ROME REBORN: THE VATICAN LIBRARY & RENAISSANCE CULTURE\n\n an Exhibit at the\n Library of Congress\n Washington, DC 20540\n\n Available by anonymous FTP from\n seq1.loc.gov\n (140.147.3.12)\n\n /pub/vatican.exhibit\n\n\n\nROME REBORN: THE VATICAN LIBRARY AND RENAISSANCE CULTURE\npresents some 200 of the Vatican Library's most precious\nmanuscripts, books, and maps--many of which played a key role in\nthe humanist recovery of the classical heritage of Greece and\nRome. The exhibition presents the untold story of the Vatican\nLibrary as the intellectual driving force behind the emergence of\nRome as a political and scholarly superpower during the\nRenaissance. The exhibit will be on display in the Jefferson\nBuilding of the Library of Congress from January 8, 1993 through\nApril 30, 1993. The online exhibit will be available by\nanonymous FTP indefinitely.\n\n The exhibit is divided into nine (9) sections: The Vatican\nLibrary, Archaeology, Humanism, Mathematics, Music, Medicine &\nBiology, Nature Described, A Wider World I: How the Orient Came\nto Rome, and A Wider World II: How Rome Went to China. Each\nsection consists of its own sub-directory within the /exhibit\ndirectory and contains the exhibit text for that section and\nseparate JPEG image files for each object. This online exhibit\nincludes not only objects from the Library of Congress exhibit,\nbut also the alternate objects (brought from Rome to be used if\nthere were a problem with one of the primary objects) and items\nomitted later in the planning process.\n\n This exhibit will be of interest to Medieval and Renaissance\nscholars in particular, but also to art historians, historians of\nscience or medicine, early music scholars, students of the\nhumanist movement, students of printing and the printed word,\ntheologians, scholars of both Far and Near Eastern studies, and\nto librarians and information professionals. Please get the\nREADME file for details on what files this exhibit contains. If\nyou have questions about how to use FTP, speak to your local\ncomputer support person. If you have questions or comments about\nthe CONTENT of the exhibit, please write to vatican@kell.loc.gov\nwhile if you have any questions or comments on the SYSTEM please\ncontact me.\n\n-- K.D. Ellis", "\nHis name is Clint Malarchuk. I'm not sure what he does now but I've heard\nhe's an extra in slasher films.", "I've turned my monitor on and off with the cpu running many times. Each time\nI wonder what I am doing to my CPU by directly hooking in such a high current\ndraw on its lines while it is running. Does this put a substantial spike on\nthe power line? Could one possibly lose data or damage equipment?\n", "\"Numerical Recipes in C\"..Fortran..Pascal has a nice section on\nencryption and decryption based on the DES algorithm. There is\nalso source code provided (I think some versions of this book are \ndistributed with the source code on disk; the source code can\nalso be ordered from the publisher).", "Dear Mr. Beyer:\n\nIt is never wise to confuse \"freedom of speech\" with \"freedom\"\nof racism and violent deragatory.\"\n\nIt is unfortunate that many fail to understand this crucial \ndistinction.\n\nIndeed, I find the latter in absolute and complete contradiction\nto the former. Racial invective tends to create an atmosphere of\nintimidation where certain individuals (who belong to the group\nunder target group) do not feel the ease and liberty to exercise \n*their* fundamental \"freedom of speech.\"\n\nThis brand of vilification is not sanctioned under \"freedom of\nspeech.\n\nSalam,\n\nJohn Absood", "\nOr little children at the market.\n\n(Or is that the Irish? Hard to keep all you not-really-English types\n straight.)\n\n\n-- ", "\n[stuff about Mithras deleted]\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\nI have made this clear elsewhere but will do so again. Khomeini put a \nprice on the head of someone in another country, this makes him a jerk\nas well as an international outlaw. Khomeini advocates the view that\nthere was a series of twelve Islamic leaders (the Twelve Imams) who\nare free of error or sin. This makes him a heretic. In the Qur'an \nMuhammad is chastised for error directly by God; the Qur'an says that\nMuhammad is the greatest example of proper Islamic behavior; thus\nno muslim is free from error. \n\n\n\nPerhaps it seems so to you, but this is hardly the case. There is\nwidespread agreement about matters of Islam. There certainly are\nmany viewpoints on issues which are not particularly Islamic in\nand of themselves, but this is so for any large group of people\nunder the same name. \n\n\nThe Qur'an is not particularly imprecise in wording, though it is true\nthat several interpretations are possible in the interpretations of\nmany words. However, as an entire text the Qur'an makes its meanings\nprecise enough for intelligent people free from power lust to come\nto agreement about them. \n\n", "Mike, Ring is the RED wire. Tip is the GREEN wire of most standard\nphone lines. They two constitute the two wires most often used for\nvoice telephone (the two live lines). They are the two innermost\nconnectors of an RJ-11 phone jack.\n\nAnother way of telling is that if you measure voltage from RED to\nGREEN (ring to tip. tip/green being at ground potential of the\nvoltmeter), it should read -48 volts in the on-hook no-ring position).\nI am 98% sure it's -48 V and not +48 volts. Doesn't hurt a phone too\nmuch if they're reversed, it's just bad if one happens to somehow get\ngrounded to earth ground elsewhere).\n\nAdditionally, when off-hook, the voltage drops to about -4 to -9 Volts\nDC. I think it is supposed to correspond to a 36 to 40 mA current\nloop. And lastly, when ringing, the two wires develop an AC potential\nof about 80 V p-p at 20 to 30 Hz across them (where you get the\nelectromechanical old fashioned bell ringer from).", "\n\n--\n\n", "\nCNN=YuppieTV\n\n tom coradeschi <+> tcora@pica.army.mil", "Here's a copy of a letter I'm e-mailing to the Slickster at\nhis address of 75300.3115@compuserve.com:\n\n____________________________________________________________________________\n\nTo: William J. Clinton\n President of the United States of America\n\nMr. President:\n\nI am writing to express my utter outrage at the conduct of various\ngovernment agencies in regards to the tragedy in Waco. I DEMAND\nthe dismissal or resignation of Lloyd Bensen, Secretary of the Treasury,\nwho bears responsibility for the initial helicopter and grenade attack \nby the ATF against the Branch Davidians, and of Janet Reno, who authorized \nthe final assault on the very day that we were commemorating the Warsaw\nghetto revolt. And I would truly appreciate it if you would make\nsure something like this never happens again on your watch.\n\nRespectfully yours,\n\nKenneth D. Whitehead\n\n___________________________________________________________________________\n\n\nGet involved, gang. It's your Republic. Let's take it back.\n", "Kent:\n\n You say that\n\n ^^^^^^^^^\n Please don't! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\n Name just three *really* competing Rosicrucian Orders. I have\nprobably spent more time than you doing the same. \n\n None of them are spin-offs from O.T.O. The opposite may be the\ncase. \n\nStudy Harder,", " \n(deletion)", "\n\nFirst of all, \"ceremonial law\" is an extraScriptural term. It is sometimes\nused as a framework to view Scripture. But if you look at Collosions,\nwithout going into it with the assumption that the Sabbath cannot be \na ceremonial law, you will see that it does refer to the sabbath.\n\nagainst us to His cross, and therefore we should not be judged in what\nwhat food we eat, what we drink, the keeping of new moons and holy days,\nor the keeping of the sabbath.\n\nThe word for sabbath in this verse is \"sabbaton\" and is used throughout the\nNew Testament to refer to the 7th day. If there is any Scripture from\nwhich we get the idea of the ceremonial law, this is one of them, and the\nsabbath is listed among the ceremonial laws.\n\nIf one goes into this with the fundamental assumption \"the sabbath cannot\nbe a ceremonial law\" then he will have to find some way around it, like\nsaying that this can only refer to the other sabbath holy days besides the\n7tH day, Because \"the sabbath cannot be a ceremonial law.\" But\nPaul is very careful in his letters to add some kind of parenthetcal \nstatement if there is anything that can be seen as a liscence to sin\nin his writings.\n\nAlso, why is the sabbath absent from the epistles (except for Hebrews 4, which\ntalks about the rest that comes through faith?) Surely it would have\nbeen a big problem for first century Christians living in a society\nthat did not rest on the 7th day. Especially slaves. Many new converst were\nslaves. It would have been difficult for slaves to rest on the sabbath\nif it had been mandatory. Why is there no mention of this in the epistles?", "\n\n I am not a paranoid, nor a government toady, nor even am I the guy you were\ntalking to originally, but I think you are simply NOT PAYING ATTENTION.\n\n A bunch of people living off by themselves with a lot of guns nearby is not\nthat wierd in Texas. My own family, very quiet taxpayers with extremely con-\nventional views, has something like 10 rifles and shotguns in a two-person\nhome. Some of them were mine, but I don't live there anymore. I now have\nmy own shotgun in my apartment.\n\n Texas Child Protective Services (which loves to find child abuse) found no,\nI repeat NO, evidence of abuse when they first looked at the BD, and is saying\nthat they see none in any of the kids who were released. There is no evidence\nthat Koresh was banging anyone but his wives.\n\n It is not against the law to stockpile (most) weapons or campbell's soup. \nNor is there any hard evidence in the form of actual hardware (as I write this)\nto prove the BD really had any *proscribed* weapons.\n\n I feel they were all loonies, but there is no indication that they ever \nbothered anyone. They were gone after in the wrong ways for the wrong reasons,\nand the BATF and FBI who are so busy trumpeting this child abuse angle hasn't\ngot a leg to stand on or any right to be involved in such abuse cases anyway. \nIf there was any real danger of the BD's going out on a rampage, then that\nis up to the officers of the state of Texas, who are probably getting a per-\nverse bit of pleasure at getting to torque the Feds for fucking up something\nin their state.\n\nsemper fi,", "\n\n\tYou don't know much about the fall of Diem's government in Vietnam.\n\tOr the traditional Indian practice of Suttee. People have been\n\tburning themselves to death (or willing to go through such and end)\n\tfor political and religious reasons since the beginning of time.\n\tAlso, death from smoke inhalation is little better than dying from\n\tthe flames themselves. Think about breatning in searing toxic\n\tgasses. It's not pleasant.\n\t\n\n\n\tThen again, to a Buddhist monk, it might be. To each his own.\n\n\n\tI'm waiting to see what the government has, too. \n\n\n _____ _____\n \\\\\\\\\\\\/ ___/___________________\n Mitchell S Todd \\\\\\\\/ / _____/__________________________\n________________ \\\\/ / mst4298@zeus._____/.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'_'_'_/\n\\_____ \\__ / / tamu.edu _____/.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'_'_/\n \\__________\\__ / / _____/_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_/\n \\_ / /__________/\n \\/____/\\\\\\\\\\\\\n \t\t\t \\\\\\\\\\\\", "\nThis makes 5! It IS SPRING!\n\n\nNeither were we. Read for a few days, then try again.\n", " ajteel@dendrite.cs.Colorado.EDU (A.J. Teel) writes...\n\n\nWrong. It's possible to inherit a debt.\n\n\nSee above.\n\n\nThe Constitution is not a contract. It is a statute. Please, \nMr. Teel, or anyone, show me one case where the U.S. \nConstitution, or any state constitution, is considered a \ncontract.\n\n\nIt is also designed to delineate the powers of the U.S. \ngovernment.\n\n\nI can't wait.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\tDaniel Reitman\n\nHOW NOT TO WRITE A DEED\n\nOne case involved the construction of a conveyance to grantees \"jointly, as \ntenants in common, with equal rights and interest in said land, and to the \nsurvivor thereof, in fee simple. . . . To Have and to Hold the same unto the \nsaid parties hereto, equally, jointly, as tenants in common, with equal rights \nand interest for the period or term of their lives, and to the survivor thereof \nat the death of the other.\"", "\n\n: The issue has never been whether tanks were used in Detroit in 1967. It\n: has been whether they fired their main guns. \n\nNever? This is incorrect. Either you don't read very well or resort\nto falsehoods in an attempt to make a point.\n\nAt the risk of boring and belaboring the point, my claim was\nthe chain was regarding the tanks \"last used in Detroit in 48\".\nThe text follows.\n\n: You did not merely claim that\n: tanks were used--you claimed that they fired their main guns to suppress\n: sniper fire and that they were \"quite\" effective at this. \n\nIndeed, when Coffman claimed they were only used as APCs, I did say\nI had been told they did fire their main guns. \n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n: You continue to\n: back away from this claim and defend something else that nobody is\n: disputing.\n\nWell, the poster who I responded to did dispute the use of tanks\npost-48. Rude of you to call Gary Coffman a nobody. \n\n: \"Well, it's not the main gun.\" Gee, that's only the entire point. Are you\n: now going to admit that you were wrong?\n\nThat was the entire point to *you*. What exactly did I claim?\n --------------------------------------------------\n \"I've heard eye-witness descriptions of tanks using their main guns\nto respond to sniper fire. Quite effectively.\"\n --------------------------------------------------\n\n I wasn't wrong . . . I've heard those descriptions. If you're\npaying attention, I've mentioned that I saw the tanks with my own\neyes, but the main gun firing was an account I heard. That helps\npeople judge whether or not to kick in the, to use your words,\n\"bullshit filters\". Stating that I *claimed* this is a falsehood.\n\n What was it I claimed as fact? Here's the entire post:\n --------------------------------------------------\n\nCorrection. I know they used tanks in Detroit 1968. I saw em, it\nwas well covered in the news at that time. Gordon Lightfoot mentions\nit in his song \"Black Day in July\".\n --------------------------------------------------\n\n Since you don't dispute that and claim that nobody else does, that\nmeans I was right. \n\n: I will never read of tanks firing their main guns in Detroit in the '67\n: riots. There is simply no way that such an event could have taken place\n: without it being common knowledge even 26 years later. The American\n: military firing shells from tanks in American cities on blacks would have\n: been *big* news.\n\n So one would suppose. Some folks think in happened in 48. \n\nAwesley goes on:\n You can also read of the troops using grenade launchers.\n\n: To fire fragmentary grenades? I doubt that as well. To fire concussion\n: grenades? Perhaps. To fire tear gas? Certainly. But you would be\n: perfectly willing to let us believe they fired frags, wouldn't you, since\n: it makes your other claim seem more plausible.\n\nJohn, again, strawman techniques. Do you feel you're losing it so you\nhave to stretch what I said and knock that down? What I read said\nnothing about what they fired. And so I put nothing in there. If you\nneed some help, let me know and I'l take your side of this for a\nwhile. You're not scoring here, you're boring here. \n\n: If tanks had fired their main guns in Detroit, people would have been\n: screaming about it for the past two and half decades. I would know about\n: it. \n\n Glad to know you're such an expert. Nice to hear some an\nauthority. I especially appreciate your basis of knowledge -- if it\nhad happened, you would have know it. Since you are such an\nauthority, you probably know that people did scream about an alleged\nmassive cover-up in the number of people killed in the Detroit riot.\nSome claimed 100+ dead, others said 300. The offical number is 43 but\nthe Concise Columbia Encyclopedia says it was \"several\". I've also\nheard some things about that but I won't dare repeat them. You'd\nassert that I claimed they were truth.\n\n: Unless you also claim that the National Guard managed to cover it up. \n\n Taking the tour after the riots, it was pretty easy to tell the \ndifference between Army and Guard troops. Or so I recall from 26 \nyears ago. And I seem to recall it was the Army running the tanks.\nSo it would have been an Army cover-up.\n\n Another part of my memories was that while most damaged building\nwere burnt, some were in rubble. Based on what I remember, I was and\nam inclined to believe an old sarge or two.\n\n: If your mind is open enough to believe that, well, good for you. I prefer\n: to live in reality. And here in reality, I find it hard to believe that\n: those tanks even had any shells, much less fired them.\n\n Given the level in destruction in Detroit, I'm quite willing to believe\nthat they did fire their guns.\n\n Now then, we've bored the shit out of anyone whose bothered to read\nthis far and all you've managed to say is that you don't believe the\naccount I cited.\n\n: --John L. Scott", "\n\n\n\n\n\t1. Don't hold your finger on it\n\t2. When cooking with it use a very small pan and be sure\n\t to not spill liquids on the components\n\t3. If you do not plan to cook with it there are a number of\n\t small cooling fans designed to mount on the chip and plug\n\t into your power supply. Look in Consumer Shoppers.", "\n\n\n\nYES! Give me his name I would greatly appreciate it.\n\n\n\nRich", "\n------------ Part 6 of 14 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End of part 6 of 14 --------\n \n\n\n", "[ref to Rev 12:7-12 deleted]\n\nAlso read Ezek 28:13-19. This is a desctiption of Lucifer (later Satan)\nand how beautiful He was, etc, etc\n\nGrant", "\n\n\nIronic, since it's pretty much what was used to blow up the World Trade\nCenter...\n-- ", "\nIf Prof. Denning is afraid of posting here due to personal attacks,\nperhaps she should use an anonymous posting service. That is why\nthey are there, to allow heated debate to occur without the personal\nattacks. \n\nIs anon@penet back up yet?", "-| In article \n-| Okay. Name one single effect that Kirlian photography gives that\n-| can't be explained by corona discharge.\n\nDozens of very funny postings to sci.image.processing \n[of which this may not be one :-].", "\nAh, the verb \"to must\". I was warned about that one back\nin Kindergarten.\n\nSo, why \"must\" they have such laws?", "\n\n\n\n\tFor the record, it wasn't until I came to college (excluding\nthe times I went to Omaha or Council Bluffs for something) that I\never removed the keys from the ignition of my car! Come to think of\nit, it was only after I moved to Ames, Ia (pop 45K) that I ever took\nto locking my doors at night.\n\n\tI've discovered that $50K/year isn't worth living in fear\nall day. I might just move back to the farm.\n\n\tThis weekend is Veishea. You know, when ISU students riot\nfor no apparent reason. This year, we've the Farm Aid concert\nto add to the festivities. Anybody bet me there's another riot?\nRemember, Iowa law has three guys talking loud defined as a riot.\nStay tuned for an on-the-scene report this weekend.", "\nYou asked me to look over here, but I was on my way back anyway :-)\n\n#[reply to cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb)]\n# \n#>If morals come from what is societally accepted, why follow that? What\n#>right do we have to expect others to follow our notion of societally\n#>mandated morality? Pardon the extremism, but couldn't I murder your\n#>\"brother\" and say that I was exercising my rights as I saw them, was\n#>doing what felt good, didn't want anyone forcing their morality on me,\n#>or I don't follow your \"morality\" ?\n# \n#I believe that morality is subjective. Each person is entitled to his\n#own moral attitudes. Mine are not a priori more correct than someone\n#elses. This does not mean however that I must judge another on the\n#basis of his rather than my moral standards. While he is entitled to\n#believe what his own moral sense tells him, the rest of society is\n#entitled to pass laws spelling out punishments for behavior that is\n#offensive to the majority.\n\nWhy? Your last statement. Why? By which authority? \n\n#Most criminals do not see their behavior as moral. The may realize that\n#it is immoral and not care. They are thus not following their own moral\n#system but being immoral. For someone to lay claim to an alternative\n#moral system, he must be sincere in his belief in it and it must be\n#internally consistent. \n\nWhy? Your last statement. Why are these things necessary? \n\nAnd believe me, a belief in terrorism can be both sincere and frighteningly\nconsistent.\n\n#Some sociopaths lack an innate moral sense and\n#thus may be incapable of behaving morally. While someone like Hitler\n#may have believed that his actions were moral, we may judge him immoral\n#by our standards. Holding that morality is subjective does not mean\n#that we must excuse the murderer.\n\nTrouble is, this would sound just fine coming from someone like Hitler, too.\n(I do *not* mean any comparison or offence, David.) Try substituting \nthe social minority of your choice for 'sociopath', 'Hitler', and\n'murderer'. No logical difference. Someone like you, vs. someone like\nHitler. Zero sum. \n", "\n\n Frankly, I'm sick of being lied to. It was bad before Clinton,\n and now it's worse. Here, listen to Ricks' ( FBI ) words,\n ONE-HALF hour before the fire:\n\n \" Come out with your hands up. This matter is NOW OVER. \"\n\n Now, I hear Ricks ( and REno ) claiming that this was just \n \"another incremental step in pressure\". More bullshit.\n\n Why did they pick 6 AM Monday morning? So nobody would\n NOTICE. So everyone would be busy at work, starting a new\n week. More bullshit.\n\n Did the FBI hold back fire engines? Here, let me paraphrase\n Sessions\"\n\n \" no, we didn't hold back the engines. We had them on \n stand-by, blah, balh, blah... And so, to protect the\n the fireman, we didn't allow the engines to enter until\n it was safe \"\n\n WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS? \" YES, WE HAVE NO BANANAS? \"\n\n What the HELL kind of double-talk is this? No, we didn't, so\n blah, balh, we did. Huh?\n\n I WATCHED this.\n\n Clinton takes responsibility, \"EVEN THOUGH\" it wasn't his \n decision. MOre BULLSHIT. Does he, or does he NOT, take\n responsibility?! No more \"even though\" bullshit. Yes.\n Or no. \n\n Christ.\n", "Today's atrocity in Waco has finally impelled me to start working on\nsomething I've been thinking about for some time. Over the last few\nyears I have heard of one case after another of government running\ncompletely amok. Unfortunately, most people are oblivious of the\ngovernment's crimes and still think of it as their protector. So I\nintend to put together what I call the \"American Horror File\": a\ncompilation of cases where the American government has run roughshod\nover the rights of its citizens over the last few years, focusing\nespecially on deaths and injuries resulting from no-knock warrants,\nand financial ruin to innocents resulting from civil forfeiture laws,\nbut including any other cases for which I can find decent\ndocumentation. I hope to make people blood-boiling, artery-bursting,\nred-hot enraged at their government.\n\nThe end result will probably be a book in electronic form (ASCII text\nand postscript files) detailing the government's crimes of recent\nyears. This book will be distributed at cost, and I will encourage\npeople to post copies to BBS's, send copies on disk to friends, and\nprint out copies and give them to neighbors.\n\nThis is a call for your help. Any information that you can send me on\nhow government is running amok will be greatly appreciated. I would prefer\ninformation that is well-documented, with sources given, about specific\ninstances of governmental abuses. I also welcome anyone who wants to\njoin me in collecting and researching information for this project.\n", ": I've been thinking about how difficult it would be to make PGP available\n: in some form on EBCDIC machines.\n\nDon't encourage them. Let EBCDIC machines die an honorable death :)", "\n[a lot of stuff deleted]\n\n: For that matter, stay Biblical and call it Omar Rasheet (The Feast of\n: First Fruits). Torah commands that this be observed on the day following\n: the Sabbath of Passover week. (Sunday by any other name in modern\n: parlance.) Why is there so much objection to observing the Resurrection\n: on the 1st day of the week on which it actually occured? Why jump it all\n: over the calendar the way Easter does? Why not just go with the Sunday\n: following Passover the way the Bible has it? Why seek after unbiblical\n: methods?\n: \nIn fact, that is the reason Easter \"jumps all over the calendar\"- Passsover\nitself is a lunar holiday, not a solar one, and thus falls over a wide\npossible span of times. The few times that Easter does not fall during or\nafter Passover are because Easter is further linked to the Vernal Equinox-\nthe beginning of spring.\n\n[more deletions]\n: \n: So what does this question have to do with Easter (the whore\n: goddess)? I am all for celebrating the Resurrection. Just keep that\n: whore out of the discussion.\n: \nYour obsession with the term \"whore\" clouds your argument. \"Whore\" is\na value judgement, not a descriptive term.\n\n[more deletions]\n\nOverall, this argument is an illustration of the \"etymological fallacy\"\n(see J.P. Louw: _Semantics of NT Greek_). That is the idea that the true\nmeaning of a word lies in its origins and linguistic form. In fact, our\nown experience demonstrates that the meaning of a word is bound up with\nhow it is _used_, not where it came from. Very few modern people would\nmake any connection whatsoever between \"Easter\" and \"Ishtar.\" If Daniel\nSeagard does, then for him it has that meaning. But that is a highly\nidiosyncratic \"meaning,\" and not one that needs much refutation.", " What does anyone think that Judge Wopner would do if Karadzic was\n on trial before him? (Nevah happen, but just a thought...)\n", "\n\nWhen I owned an SE, I replaced the fan with SE Silencer, available, I\nbelieve, from MacWarehouse or MacConnection. It comes with instruction for\ninstallation and requires no soldering. Worked like a charm. I think the\nmanufacturer is Mobius.\n\n__Dave\n", "\nIt is also interesting to note that Powell (and maybe Koons) were found\nguilty of aiding and abetting the deprival of King's civil rights...but,\ntwo others who also beat King and all the others who watched were not.\nGo figure? Can you say sacraficial lambs? Can you say appeal?\n\n", "\n Just a quick question. If Mary was Immaculately concieved, so she\n could be a pure vessel, does this mean that she was without sin\n and, therefore, the perfect (meaning sinless) female human being?\n Is this why she is held so highly in the Catholic Church despite\n it's basically patriarchical structure?\n\nShe was immaculately conceived, and so never subject to Original Sin,\nbut also never committed a personal sin in her whole life. This was\npossible because of the special degree of grace granted to her by God.\n\nShe is regarded so highly because of her special relationship to God,\nand everything that flows from that relationship.\n\nThe Catholic Church sees her as the new Eve. (The Fathers in the\nearly Church use this particular figure a lot.)", "\n\n\nWhat are the volumes that it speaks besides the fact that he leaves your \nchoices up to you?\n\n\nI definitely agree that it's rather presumptuous for either \"side\" to give some\npsychological reasoning for another's belief.\n\nMAC\n\n\n\n\n--\n****************************************************************\n Michael A. Cobb\n \"...and I won't raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois\n class to pay for my programs.\" Champaign-Urbana\n -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu", "Archive-name: cryptography-faq/part05\nLast-modified: 1993/4/15\n\n\nFAQ for sci.crypt, part 5: Product ciphers\n\nThis is the fifth of ten parts of the sci.crypt FAQ. The parts are\nmostly independent, but you should read the first part before the rest.\nWe don't have the time to send out missing parts by mail, so don't ask.\nNotes such as ``[KAH67]'' refer to the reference list in the last part.\n\nThe sections of this FAQ are available via anonymous FTP to rtfm.mit.edu \nas /pub/usenet/news.answers/cryptography-faq/part[xx]. The Cryptography \nFAQ is posted to the newsgroups sci.crypt, sci.answers, and news.answers\nevery 21 days.\n\n\nContents:\n\n* What is a product cipher?\n* What makes a product cipher secure?\n* What are some group-theoretic properties of product ciphers?\n* What can be proven about the security of a product cipher?\n* How are block ciphers used to encrypt data longer than the block size?\n* Can symmetric block ciphers be used for message authentication?\n* What exactly is DES?\n* What is triple DES?\n* What is differential cryptanalysis?\n* How was NSA involved in the design of DES?\n* Is DES available in software?\n* Is DES available in hardware?\n* Can DES be used to protect classified information?\n* What are \"ECB\", \"CBC\", \"CFB\", and \"OFB\" encryption?\n\n\n* What is a product cipher?\n\n A product cipher is a block cipher that iterates several weak\n operations such as substitution, transposition, modular\n addition/multiplication, and linear transformation. (A ``block\n cipher'' just means a cipher that encrypts a block of data---8 bytes,\n say---all at once, then goes on to the next block.) The notion of\n product ciphers is due to Shannon [SHA49]. Examples of modern\n product ciphers include LUCIFER [SOR84], DES [NBS77], SP-networks\n [KAM78], LOKI [BRO90], FEAL [SHI84], PES [LAI90], Khufu and Khafre\n [ME91a]. The so-called Feistel ciphers are a class of product\n ciphers which operate on one half of the ciphertext at each round,\n and then swap the ciphertext halves after each round. LUCIFER,\n DES, LOKI, and FEAL are examples of Feistel ciphers.\n\n The following table compares the main parameters of several product \n ciphers:\n\n cipher | block length | key bits | number of rounds\n LUCIFER 128 128 16\n DES 64 56 16\n LOKI 64 64 16\n FEAL 64 128 2^x, x >= 5\n PES 64 128 8\n\n* What makes a product cipher secure?\n\n Nobody knows how to prove mathematically that a product cipher is\n completely secure. So in practice one begins by demonstrating that the\n cipher ``looks highly random''. For example, the cipher must be\n nonlinear, and it must produce ciphertext which functionally depends\n on every bit of the plaintext and the key. Meyer [MEY78] has shown\n that at least 5 rounds of DES are required to guarantee such a\n dependence. In this sense a product cipher should act as a ``mixing''\n function which combines the plaintext, key, and ciphertext in a\n complex nonlinear fashion.\n\n The fixed per-round substitutions of the product cipher are\n referred to as S-boxes. For example, LUCIFER has 2 S-boxes, and DES\n has 8 S-boxes. The nonlinearity of a product cipher reduces to a\n careful design of these S-boxes. A list of partial design criteria\n for the S-boxes of DES, which apply to S-boxes in general, may be\n found in Brown [BRO89] and Brickell et al. [BRI86].\n\n* What are some group-theoretic properties of product ciphers?\n\n Let E be a product cipher that maps N-bit blocks to N-bit blocks.\n Let E_K(X) be the encryption of X under key K. Then, for any fixed K,\n the map sending X to E_K(X) is a permutation of the set of N-bit\n blocks. Denote this permutation by P_K. The set of all N-bit\n permutations is called the symmetric group and is written S_{2^N}.\n The collection of all these permutations P_K, where K ranges over all\n possible keys, is denoted E(S_{2^N}). If E were a random mapping from\n plaintexts to ciphertexts then we would expect E(S_{2^N}) to generate\n a large subset of S_{2^N}.\n\n Coppersmith and Grossman [COP74] have shown that a very simple\n product cipher can generate the alternating group A_{2^N} given a\n sufficient number of rounds. (The alternating group is half of the\n symmetric group: it consists of all ``even'' permutations, i.e., all\n permutations which can be written as an even number of swaps.)\n Even and Goldreich [EVE83] were able to extend these results to show\n that Feistel ciphers can generate A_{2^N}, given a sufficient number\n of rounds.\n\n The security of multiple encipherment also depends on the\n group-theoretic properties of a cipher. Multiple encipherment is an\n extension over single encipherment if for keys K1, K2 there does\n not exist a third key K3 such that\n\n E_K2(E_K1(X)) == E_(K3)(X) (**)\n\n which indicates that encrypting twice with two independent keys\n K1, K2 is equal to a single encryption under the third key K3. If\n for every K1, K2 there exists a K3 such that eq. (**) is true then\n we say that E is a group.\n\n This question of whether DES is a group under this definition was\n extensively studied by Sherman, Kaliski, and Rivest [SHE88]. In their\n paper they give strong evidence for the hypothesis that DES is not a\n group. In fact DES is not a group [CAM93].\n\n* What can be proven about the security of a product cipher?\n\n Recall from above that P_K is a permutation produced by E under\n some key K. The goal of the designer of E is to ensure that P_K\n appears to be a random element of S_{2^N}, the symmetric group.\n Let R be an element of S_{2^N} selected randomly. We will say that P_K\n and R are indistinguishable if an observer given P_K and R in some\n order cannot distinguish between these two permutations in polynomial\n time. That is, with time bounded resources, the observer cannot\n determine which of the permutations is produced by E: the optimal\n decision is no better than simply guessing.\n\n Luby and Rackoff [LUB88] have shown that a class of Feistel ciphers\n are secure in this sense when the round mapping is replaced by\n random boolean functions.\n\n* How are block ciphers used to encrypt data longer than the block size?\n\n There are four standard \"modes of operation\" (and numerous non-standard\n ones as well). The standard modes of operation are defined in the U.S.\n Department of Commerce Federal Information Processing Standard (FIPS) 81,\n published in 1980. See the question about \"ECB\" below for more details.\n\n Although they are defined for the DES block cipher, the \"modes of\n operation\" can be used with any block cipher.\n\n* Can symmetric block ciphers be used for message authentication?\n\n One may use a symmetric cryptosystem block cipher to prove to himself\n that he did or did not generate a message, and to prove to himself \n whether his message was altered or unaltered since generation. But one\n cannot prove these things to another without revealing the key, and \n thereafter that key cannot be used to prove anything about any messages\n that were authenticated using that key.\n \n See ANSI X3.106-1983 and FIPS 113 (1985) for a standard method of message\n authentication using DES.\n\n* What exactly is DES?\n\n DES is the U.S. Government's Data Encryption Standard - a product \n cipher that operates on 64-bit blocks of data, using a 56-bit key. \n\n It is defined in FIPS 46-1 (1988) [which supersedes FIPS 46 (1977)].\n FIPS are Federal Information Processing Standards published by NTIS.\n DES is identical to the ANSI standard Data Encryption Algorithm (DEA)\n defined in ANSI X3.92-1981. \n\n* What is triple DES?\n\n Triple DES is a product cipher which, like DES, operates on 64-bit \n data blocks. There are several forms, each of which uses the DES\n cipher 3 times. Some forms use two 56-bit keys, some use three.\n The \"DES modes of operation\" may also be used with triple-DES.\n\n Some people refer to E(K1,D(K2,E(K1,x))) as triple-DES.\n\n This method is defined in chapter 7.2 of the ANSI standard X9.17-1985\n \"Financial Institution Key Management\" and is intended for use in\n encrypting DES keys and IVs for \"Automated Key Distribution\". Its\n formal name is \"Encryption and Decryption of a Single Key by a Key\n Pair\", but it is referenced in other standards documents as EDE.\n\n That standard says (section 7.2.1): \"Key encrypting keys may be a single\n DEA key or a DEA key pair. Key pairs shoud be used where additional\n security is needed (e.g., the data protected by the key(s) has a long\n security life). A key pair shall not be encrypted or decrypted using a\n single key.\"\n\n Others use the term \"triple-DES\" for E(K1,D(K2,E(K3,x))) or\n E(K1,E(K2,E(K3,x))).\n\n One of us (Carl Ellison) keeps advocating DES triple use in the form\n E(K1, TRAN( E(K2, TRAN( E(K3, COMPRESS( x )))))), where each DES instance\n has its own key and IV (for CBC mode) and TRAN has been posted on\n sci.crypt. (It is a large-block transposition program taking its key\n from the data stream itself, so that it is not an encryption program on\n its own part.)\n\n* What is differential cryptanalysis?\n\n Differential cryptanalysis is a statistical attack that can be\n applied to any iterated mapping (ie. any mapping which is based on\n a repeated round function). The method was recently popularized by\n Biham and Shamir [BIH91], but Coppersmith has remarked that the\n S-boxes of DES were optimized against this attack some 20 years ago.\n This method has proved effective against several product ciphers,\n notably FEAL [BI91a].\n\n Differential cryptanalysis is based on observing a large number of\n ciphertexts Y, Y' whose corresponding plaintexts X, X' satisfy a\n known difference D = X+X', where + is componentwise XOR. In the\n basic Biham-Shamir attack, 2^{47} such plaintext pairs are required\n to determine the key for DES. Substantially fewer pairs are required\n if DES is truncated to 6 or 8 rounds. In these cases, the actual key\n can be recovered in a matter of minutes using a few thousand pairs.\n For full DES this attack is impractical because it requires so many\n known plaintexts.\n\n The work of Biham and Shamir on DES revealed several startling\n observations on the algorithm. Most importantly, if the key\n schedule was removed from DES and a 16*48 = 768-bit key was used,\n the key could be recovered in less than 2^{64} steps. Thus\n independent subkeys do not add substantial security to DES.\n Further, the S-boxes of DES are extremely sensitive in that\n changing even single entries in these tables yields significant\n improvement in the differential attack.\n\n Adi Shamir is quoted to say (NYTimes Oct 13 1991), ``I would say\n that, contrary to what some people believe, there is no evidence\n of tampering with the DES so that the basic design was weakened.''\n\n* How was NSA involved in the design of DES?\n\n According to Kinnucan [KIN78], Tuchman, a member of the group that\n developed DES at IBM is quoted as saying, ``We developed the DES\n algorithm entirely within IBM using IBMers. The NSA did not\n dictate a single wire!'' Tuchman and Meyer (another developer of\n DES) spent a year breaking ciphers and finding weaknesses in\n Lucifer. They then spent two years strengthening Lucifer. ``Their\n basic approach was to look for strong substitution, permutation,\n and key scheduling functions ... IBM has classified the notes\n containing the selection criteria at the request of the NSA....\n `The NSA told us we had inadvertently reinvented some of the deep\n secrets it uses to make its own algorithms,' explains Tuchman.''\n \n On the other hand, a document called ``Involvement of the NSA in\n the development of DES: unclassified summary of the United States\n Select Committee on Intelligence'', printed in the IEEE\n Communications Magazine, p53-55, 1978, states: ``In the development\n of DES, NSA convinced IBM that a reduced keysize was sufficient;\n indirectly assisted in the development of the S-box structures; and\n certified that the final DES algorithm was, to the best of their\n knowledge, free from any statistical or mathematical weakness.''\n\n Clearly the key size was reduced at the insistence of the NSA.\n The article further states that the NSA did not tamper with the\n algorithm itself, just the parameters, which in some sense\n resolves the apparent conflict in the remarks of Meyer and Tuchman\n presented above.\n\n* Is DES available in software?\n\n Several people have made DES code available via ftp (see part 10 for\n pathnames): Stig Ostholm [FTPSO]; BSD [FTPBK]; Eric Young [FTPEY];\n Dennis Furguson [FTPDF]; Mark Riordan [FTPMR]; Phil Karn [FTPPK].\n A Pascal listing of DES is also given in Patterson [PAT87].\n\n FIPS 46-1 says \"The algorithm specified in this standard is to be\n implemented ... using hardware (not software) technology. ...\n Software implementations in general purpose computers are not in\n compliance with this standard.\" Despite this, software\n implementations abound, and are used by government agencies.\n\n* Is DES available in hardware?\n\n The following paragraphs are quoted from messages sent to the editors.\n We don't vouch for the quality or even existence of the products.\n\n encryption/decryption device for use on standard, digital 64Kbps PCM\n telecom data streams. It is capable of processing data in real time,\n e.g. one sample/frame. It is the DS2160. Their phone number is\n 214-450-0400. You would probably need to talk with Dewight in Telecom\n marketing.''\n\n Cryptech CRY12C102: 22.5Mbit/s according to Data Sheet, with 32 Bit\n interface. We use this one, because it was the only one available when\n we started the project. No problems ! 2. Pijnenburg PCC100: 20Mbit/s\n according to Data Sheet. Address: PIJNENBURG B.V., Boxtelswweg 26,\n NL-5261 NE Vught, The Netherlands. 3. INFOSYS DES Chip (Germany):\n S-Boxes must be loaded by software. So you can modify the Algorithm.\n Sorry, I don't have the data sheet handy. Please E-Mail me if you need\n further information.''\n\n DES and Proprietary Storage for 16 56-bit keys Key stream generator\n Integrated hardware DES3 procedure Extended mode with 112 bit keys;\n Computer Elektronik Infosys; 512-A Herndon Parkway,; Herndon, VA\n 22070; (800)322-3464\n\n an AM9568 compatible DES chip that operates at 25MHz, performs a\n round of encryption in 18 clocks, has a three-stage pipeline,\n supports ECB, CBC, CFB-8 and >>> CFB-1 <<<<. Further it is very\n reasonable priced as opposed to other high-end DES chips. Call\n Newbridge Microsystems, Ottawa, (613) 592-0714. (... there are no\n import/export issues with Canada and the US). If you require custom\n DES or Public Key ICs then Timestep Engineering developed\n Newbridge's crypto chips and ICs for other commercial and\n educational establishments. They can be reached at (613) 820-0024.\n\n* Can DES be used to protect classified information?\n\n \"This standard will be used by Federal departments and agencies for\n the cryptographic protection of computer data when the following\n conditions apply: 1. ... cryptographic protection is required; and\n 2. the data is not classified according to the National Security Act\n of 1947, as amended, or the Atomic Energy Act of 1954, as amended.\"\n\n* What are \"ECB\", \"CBC\", \"CFB\", and \"OFB\" encryption?\n\n These are methods for using block ciphers, such as DES, to encrypt \n messages, files, and blocks of data, known as \"modes of operation.\"\n Four \"modes of operation\" are defined in FIPS 81 (1980 December 2), \n and also in ANSI X3.106-1983. \n\n FIPS 81 specifies that when 7-bit ASCII data is sent in octets, the\n unused most-significant bit is to be set to 1.\n FIPS 81 also specifies the padding for short blocks.\n\n The four DES modes of operation are: \n\tElectronic Code Book (ECB), \n\tCipher Block Chaining (CBC), \n\tK-bit Cipher FeedBack (CFB), and \n\tK-bit Output FeedBack (OFB).\n\n These methods are explained below in a c-language-like notation.\n\n Some symbols:\n\n P[n]\tThe n'th block of plaintext, input to encryption, output from\n \tdecryption. Size of block determined by the mode.\n\n C[n]\tThe n'th block of ciphertext, output from encryption, input to\n \tdecryption. Size of block determined by the mode.\n\n E(m)\tThe DES encryption function, performed on 64-bit block m, using\n \tthe 16-key schedule derived from some 56-bit key.\n\n D(m)\tThe DES decryption function, performed on 64-bit block m, using\n \tthe same key schedule as in E(m), except that the 16 keys\n \tin the schedule are used in the opposite order as in E(m).\n\n IV\tA 64-bit \"initialization vector\", a secret value which, along with\n \tthe key, is shared by both encryptor and decryptor.\n\n I[n]\tThe n'th value of a 64-bit variable, used in some modes.\n R[n]\tThe n'th value of a 64-bit variable, used in some modes.\n\n LSB(m,k) The k least significant (right-most) bits of m.\n \te.g. m & ((1 << k) - 1)\n\n MSB(m,k) The k most significant (left-most) bits of m.\n \te.g. (m >> (64-k)) & ((1 << k) - 1)\n\n = ^ << >> & operators as defined in the c langage.\n\n\n Electronic Code Book (ECB):\n\n \t P[n] and C[n] are each 64-bits long.\n\n \t Encryption:\t\t\tDecryption:\n \t C[n] = E(P[n])\t\tP[n] = D(C[n])\n\n\n Cipher Block Chaining (CBC):\n\n \t P[n] and C[n] are each 64-bits long.\n\n \t Encryption:\t\t\tDecryption:\n \t C[0] = E(P[0]^IV)\t\tP[0] = D(C[0])^IV\n (n>0)\t C[n] = E(P[n]^C[n-1])\t\tP[n] = D(C[n])^C[n-1]\n\n\n k-bit Cipher FeedBack (CFB):\n\n \t P[n] and C[n] are each k bits long, 1 <= k <= 64. \n\n \t Encryption:\t\t\tDecryption:\n \t I[0] = IV\t\t\tI[0] = IV\n (n>0)\t I[n] = I[n-1]<0)\t I[n] = C[n-1]\t\t\tI[n] = C[n-1]\t\n (all n) R[n] = E(I[n])\t\tR[n] = E(I[n])\n (all n) C[n] = P[n]^R[n]\t\tP[n] = C[n]^R[n]\n\n CFB notes: Since I[n] depends only on the plain or cipher text from the\n previous operation, the E() function can be performed in parallel with\n the reception of the text with which it is used.\n\n\n k-bit Output FeedBack (OFB):\n\n \t P[n] and C[n] are each k bits long, 1 <= k <= 64. \n\n \t Encryption:\t\t\tDecryption:\n \t I[0] = IV\t\t\tI[0] = IV\n (n>0)\t I[n] = I[n-1]<0)\t I[n] = R[n-1]\t\t\tI[n] = R[n-1]\t\n (all n) R[n] = E(I[n])\t\tR[n] = E(I[n])\n (all n) C[n] = P[n]^R[n]\t\tP[n] = C[n]^R[n]\n\n OFB notes: encryption and decryption are identical. Since I[n] is\n independent of P and C, the E() function can be performed in advance of\n the receipt of the plain/cipher text with which it is to be used.\n\n\n Additional notes on DES \"modes of operation\":", "T.S.Reddy writes\n\nWhile the people here may be claim to be Muslim, the actions reported here, \nif they actually happened, are 180 degrees opposite from what Islam stands \nfor, and I, for one, condemn them.\n--", "In most areas of the country, serviced by ESS (or CESS), your phone\n--", "\n\n\n\n\n\nI think many reading this group would also benefit by knowing how\ndeviant the view _as I've articulated it above_ (which may not be\nthe true view of Khomeini) is from the basic principles of Islam. \nSo that the non-muslim readers of this group will see how far from \nthe simple basics of Islam such views are on the face of them. And \nif they are _not_ in contradiction with the basics of Islam, how \nsubtle such issues are and how it seems sects exist in Islam while \nthey are explicitly proscribed by the Qur'an.\n\n\n\n\nIn my opinion considering any human being as having a substance\nor metaphysical fundamentally different from that of any other human\nbeing _is_ a heretical notion and one proscribed by Islam. \n\n\n\n\nAbsolutely! I would be interested in discussing this privately and\nI am interested in hearing how one might try to make the concept of\nerror-free and sinless human beings philosophically consistent with\nthe teachings of the Qur'an. However, _prima facie_ such attemptsa\nare highly susceptible to degenerating into monkery, explicitly\nproscribed by the Qur'an.\n\n\n\nAlaikum Wassalam\n", "\n\n You're right, I bailed out in Diff Eq. Nevertheless, I would \n suggest to YOU that there is a difference between a \"proposed BILL,\n stalled in Congress\" and a \"executive order, crammed down OUR \n THROATS\". Do you disagree?\n\n\n\n Went to the Post Office on Friday, got my passport apps in.", "The following is an introduction as to who is Muhammad SAW\nas will be covered with this treatise.\n\nMUHAMMAD peace and blessings of Allah be upon him (SAW)\nis the last prophet of Islam. He is the Prophet who is revealed\nthe last Holy Scripture, Qur'an, by Allah SWA (all praise be to Him)\nthrough the Arch Angel Gabriel. He is the seal of all prophets\ntill the day of judgement as stated in the Qur'an by Allah\nSWA (all praise be to Him). Muhammad SAW lived between\n571-632 AC. All other prophethoods claimed after Muhammad SAW,\nis a treason against Islam, against Qur'an, against the message\nof Allah SWA. Muhammad SAW is from the seed of Ishmael, another\nmessenger of Allah and son of Abraham also a messenger of Allah.\nHe is the Messenger that previous holy scriptures foretold his\ncoming. The above mentioned verse from the Qur'an is from \nChapter 33, Verse 40 whose rough translation is as follows:\n\n\tMuhammad is not the father of any of your men,\n\tbut (he is) the messenger of Allah, and the seal\n\tof the prophets, and Allah has full knowledge of\n\tall things.\n\n---------------------\nCommentary on the above verse: When a document is sealed,\nit is complete, and there can be no further addition. The \nHoly Prophet Muhammad SAW closed the long line of Messengers.\nAllah's teaching is and will always be continuous, but there\nhas been and will be NO Prophet after Muhammad SAW. The later\nages will want thinkers, and revivers, not Prophets. This is not\nan arbitrary matter. It is a decree full of knowledge and wisdom,\n\"for Allah has full knowledge of all things.\"\n\n----------------------\nDROPLET VOL 1, No 11, Part 2\n\nA D R O P L E T\nFrom The Vast Ocean Of The Miraculous Qur'an\n\nTranslations from the Arabic and Turkish Writings of \nBediuzzaman Said Nursi, The Risale-i Noor\n\nVOL 1, No 11, Part 2\n------------------------------------------------------------------\n \t\t NINETEENTH LETTER \n\n\t\t MU'JIZAT-I AHMEDIYE RISALESI \n(A TREATISE ON THE MIRACLES OF MUHAMMED SAW) \n\n(continued from Droplet Vol 1, No 11, Part 1)\n\n SECOND SIGN: The Noble Messenger (SAW)\ndeclared His prophethood, and presented to humanity a\ndecree as the Glorious Qur'an and manifest miracles\nwhich number, according to the scholars, one thousand.\nThe occurrence of those miracles in their entirety is as\ncertain as the fact that He declared himself prophet. In\nfact, as a shown by the words of the most obstinate\nunbelievers quoted in various places of the Wise\nOur'an, even they could not deny the occurrence of His\nmiracles, but only called them -hasha wa kella!-(Allah forbids) \nsorcery, in order to satisfy themselves, or to deceive their\nfollowers. The miracles of Muhammad (SAW) have the\ncertainty of confirmation by consensus of Ulema (scholars\nof Islam) to the hundreth degree.\n The Miracle is the conformation by the CREATOR of\nthe universe of His declaration of Prophethood; it has the\neffect of the words,'You have indeed spoken the truth !'\n Suppose that you said in the assembly of a ruler,\nwhile being observed by Him, 'The true ruler has\nappointed me to such and such position. 'At a time when\nyou were asked to prove your claim, the word 'Yes'\nuttered by the ruler would sufficiently support you. Or, if\nthe ruler changed his usual practice and attitude at your\nrequest, this would confirm your claim even more soundly\nand more definitely than would the word 'Yes.'\n In the same way, ALLAH's Most Noble Messenger\nclaimed: 'I am the envoy of the CREATOR of this\nuniverse. My proof is that He will change His unbroken\norder at my request and my prayer. Now look at my\nfingers: He makes them run like a fountain with five\nspigots. Look at the moon: by a gesture of my finger, He\nsplits it in two. Look at that tree: to affirm me, and to bear\nwitness to me, it moves and comes near to me. Look at\nthis food: although it is barely enough for two or three\nmen, it satisfies two or three hundred. 'Further he shows\nhundreds of similar miracles. However, the evidences of\nthe veracity of this high being and the proofs of his\nprophethood are not restricted to his miracles. All his\ndeeds and acts, his words and behavior, his moral\nconduct and manners, his character and appearance\nprove to the attentive his truthfulness and seriousness.\nIndeed, many people such as Abdullah b. Salam, the\nfamous scholar of the Children of Israel, came to belief\nmerely by seeing him, and said, 'No lie can hide in this\nface, nor can any fraud be found in it!'\n Although many of the researchers have concluded\nthat the proofs of the prophethood of Muhammad and his\nmiracles number about one thousand, there are\nthousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of proofs of\nhis prophethood. And hundreds of thousands of\ntruth-seeking men (muhakkikiin) with varying opinions\nhave affirmed his prophethood in an equal number of\nways.\n The Wise Our'an alone demonstrates thousands of\nthe proofs of his prophethood, in addition to its own forty\naspects of miraculousness. Since prophethood is as a\nphenomenon of humanity, and hundreds of thousands of\nindividuals who claimed prophethood and performed\nmiracles have lived and passed away; then, the\nprophethood of Muhammad (SAW) is of a certanity\nsuperior to that of the prophethood of all the others. For\nwhatever evidences, qualities and attributes became the\nmeans of the prophethood and messengership of all the\nmessengers such as Jesus (AS) and Moses (AS), they\nare all owned in a more perfect and comprehensive\nfashion by Muhammad (SAW). And since the causes and\nmeans of prophetic authority exist more perfectly in the\nperson of Muhammad (SAW), this authority is to be found\nin him with more certanity than all the other prophets.\n", "#[reply to frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer)]\n# \n#>>The problem for the objectivist is to determine the status of moral\n#>>truths and the method by which they can be established. If we accept\n#>>that such judgements are not reports of what is but only relate to\n#>>what ought to be (see naturalistic fallacy) then they cannot be proved\n#>>by any facts about the nature of the world.\n# \n#>This can be avoided in at least two ways: (1) By leaving the Good\n#>undefined, since anyone who claims that they do not know what it is is\n#>either lying or so out of touch with humanity as to be undeserving of a\n#>reply.\n# \n#If the Good is undefined (undefinable?) but you require of everyone that\n#they know innately what is right, you are back to subjectivism.\n\nNo, and begging the question. see below.\n\n#>(2) By defining the Good solely in terms of evaluative terms.\n# \n#Ditto here. An evaluative statement implies a value judgement on the\n#part of the person making it.\n\nAgain, incorrect, and question-begging. See below.\n#\n#>>At this point the objectivist may talk of 'self-evident truths'\n# \n#Pretty perceptive, that Prof. Flew.\n# \n#>>but can he deny the subjectivist's claim that self-evidence is in the\n#>>mind of the beholder?\n# \n#>Of course; by denying that subject/object is true dichotomy.\n# \n#Please explain how this helps. I don't see your argument.\n\nI don't see yours. It seems to rest on the assertion that everything\nis either a subject or an object. There's nothing compelling about that\ndichotomy. I might just as well divide the world into subject,object,\nevent. It even seems more sensible. Causation, for example, is\nan event, not a subject or an object. \n\nFurthermore, if subject/object were true dichotomy, i.e.\n\n\tEverything is either a subject or an object\n\nThen, is that statement a self-evident truth or not? If so, then it's \nall in the mind of the beholder, according to the relativist, and hardly \ncompelling. Add to that the fact that the world can quickly be shoved\nin its entirety into the \"subjective\" category by an idealist or \nsolipsist argument, and that we have this perfectly good alternate\nset of categories (subject, object, event) [which can be reduced\nto (subject, object, quality) without any logical difficulty] and why\nyes, I guess I *am* denying that self-evident truths are all in the mind of \nthe beholder.\n\n#>>If not, what is left of the claim that some moral judgements are true?\n\nAll of it.\n\n#>If nothing, then NO moral judgements are true. This is a thing that\n#>is commonly referred to as nihilism. It entails that science is of\n#>no value, irrepective of the fact that some people find it useful. How\n#>anyone arrives at relativism/subjectivism from this argument beats me.\n# \n#This makes no sense either. Flew is arguing that this is where the\n#objectivist winds up, not the subjectivist. Furthermore, the nihilists\n#believed in nothing *except* science, materialism, revolution, and the\n#People.\n\nI'm referring to ethical nihilism\n\n#>>The subjectivist may well feel that all that remains is that there are\n#>>some moral judgements with which he would wish to associate himself.\n#>>To hold a moral opinion is, he suggests, not to know something to be\n#>>true but to have preferences regarding human activity.\"\n# \n#>And if those preferences should include terrorism, that moral opinion\n#>is not true. Likewise, if the preferences should include noTerrorism,\n#>that moral opinion is not true. Why should one choose a set of\n#>preferences which include terrorisim over one which includes\n#>noTerrorism? Oh, no reason. This is patently absurd....\n# \n#And also not the position of the subjectivist, as has been pointed out\n#to you already by others. Ditch the strawman, already, and see my reply\n#to Mike Cobb's root message in the thread Societal Basis for Morality.\n\nI've responded over there. BTW - I don't intend this as a strawman, but\nas something logically entailed by relativism (really any ethical system\nwhere values are assumed to be unreal). It's different to say \"Relativists\nsay...\" than \"relativism implies...\".\n", "\n\nIt can be painless, so it isn't cruel. And, it has occurred frequently\nsince the dawn of time, so it is hardly unusual.\n\n\nBut, innocents die due to many causes. Why have you singled out\naccidental or false execution as the one to take issue with?", "\n\n Tennessee, at least, does not require any sort of safety class to\nget a driver's license. All that is required is one twenty question\nquiz and to drive a car around the block without crashing.\n\n\n In all probability, no you don't. You are required to be licensed\nto drive on public roads. A license is not necessary on private property.\n\n\n Most states do not require the registration of cars that are\nnot used on public roads. Those that do (California I know of) do\nso for tax purposes more than anything else.\n \n\n Many states do not currently require this, and most, again,\nonly make this requirement for public roads. A car sitting unused \nis not required to have insurance.\n\n\n The two are not the same, as I pointed out above. There are\nsignificant difference between making rules for *use on public property*\nand *making rules for ownership*.\n\n The other half of the objection is trust. Similar things to this\nhave been tried in many local jurisdications across the country, and\nhave been abused in far too many cases. Safety classes which are\nnever sheduled, never funded, or only one or two is held a year for\na limited number of participants. Registration lists in New York,\nChicago, and California have been used for confiscation. *Many* gun\nowners would, in theory, support these planes. (Although the\nnumbers overwhelmingly show that competence is not the problem, that\nintentional misuse is). They've simply seen it abused and are leery of\nthe next person who comes down the pike with a \"reasonable\" suggestion\nthey've already seen abused.\n\n\n\n", "\n\n\nFor what it's worth, I got my can in three days from Chaparral. That's\nUPS ground from CA to UT, YMMV. The stuff seems to work, and it doesn't\nattract grundge like PJ-1 Blue does. I gave it the acid test, a full\nday's worth of breaking in the Quadracer's new paddle tires down at the\nsand dunes. If there's anything wet & stickey it will be coated with\nsand at the end of the day, but the chain looked pretty clean.\n\nAs far as mail-order goes, if Chaparral has it in stock (and they can\ntell you if it's in stock, or about how long it will take to back-order\nit if it's not), I usually get it in three days. Competition Accessories\nalways seems to take a week or two to deliver. Motorcycle Accessory\nWarehouse also takes a week or two, and after trying to buy some boots\nfrom them last week, I don't think they actually stock anything. MAW was\nabout $30 cheaper than Chaparral on Alpinestars Tech 7 boots, but on\nMonday I was hoping to get them by the end of the week, so I asked MAW a\ncompletely unreasonable question: \"Do you have them in stock?\" The\nconversation went something like this:\n\nI need to know if you have some boots in stock.\n\n\tDo you want to pay with Visa or Mastercard?\n\nI want to know if you have them in stock.\n\n\tWell, the computer doesn't show anything, I'd have to call the\n\tdistributer to find out if we have them.\n\nSo do you have them or not?\n\n\tDon't you understand what I'm saying? I have to call our\n\tdistributer to find out if we have them in stock or not.\n\nUh, right. So can you do it?\n\n\tYea, call me back in an hour, and ask for Phil.\n\nSo an hour later Phil isn't there, but Mike says he'll check, and call\nhim back in half an hour. Half an hour later Mike isn't there either,\nbut he left a note that says they'll have them by the end of the month\n(3 weeks away). Screw it, the 30 bucks isn't worth the hassle. I called\nChaparral and asked if they had them in stock:\n\n\tOoh, Alpinestars? Probably not, they are hard to keep in stock,\n\tbut I'll check. What size?\n\nSize 10.\n\n\tLet's see, yes! Size 10, in blue & white, gray & white, black...\n\nI'll take the blacks!\n\nThis was about noon on Monday, they arrived Thursday morning. Once\nagain, three days via UPS ground. I _like_ Chaparral.\n\nI'm not completely down on MAW, they often have lower prices, but be\nprepared to wait.\n\nOh, and if anyone's in the market for sand tires and other ATV stuff,\nScorcher seems like a good outfit, friendly, fast, had the tires I\nwanted in stock, and were cheaper than Chaparral too.", "\nSorry about following up my own article, but I wanted to continue\nthat what might be being missed here is that the important thing\nmight not be temperature differences per se, but the action of\nheat sinking the battery.\n\nPerhap someone could conduct an experiment, taking two identical\nlead acid batteries, placing both on wooden shelves, but putting\none of them in a water bath designed to act as a heat sink. This\nwould eliminate the 'concrete floor effect', and keep both batteries\nat the same ambient temperature.\n\nI think the argument over temperatures is not pertinent, but the\none over heat conductance and removing the exothermic heat may have\nsome validity.", "\tThe War on some drugs has already turned alot of police into\n\tcriminals. This is yet another nail in the constitution's coffin.\n", "\n\tI realize I'm entering this discussion rather late, but I do\nhave one question. Wasn't it a Reagan appointee, James Watt, a\npentacostal christian (I think) who was the secretary of the interior\nwho saw no problem with deforestation since we were \"living in the\nlast days\" and ours would be the last generation to see the redwoods\nanyway?\n", "\n\nIn order of your questions, I oppose it, I oppose it, I oppose it and\n(Huh? Wha? Where did _that_ topic come from and what's it got to do\nwith the discussion at hand? :-)\n\nWhen I was discussing the concept of different criminal laws for crimes\nagainst different classes of people (and yes, I do consider laws which\nallow/mandate enhanced penalties following conviction based upon the\nconvict's attitudes towards the class membership of the victim to fit\ninto that category), the category of classes I had in mind was that of\nthe standard civil rights discussion -- classes based upon race, gender,\nethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, etc. Having you ask about\nclasses based upon one's _profession_ rather than one's personal\ncharacteristics caught me off guard, and I had to think out the question\nfrom scratch.\n\nWhat I finally decided was that the law should not recognize such\nclasses because to do so would be to formally and officially declare\nsome people to be of more worth than others, and that would be anathema\nto the underlying American concept of equal treatment under the law.\n\nLast year, when a federal crime bill was under consideration which would\nhave expanded the federal death penalty to an additional fifty-plus\ncrimes, including the murder of various federal officers hitherto not\nprotected by that \"aura of deterrence,\" critics pointed out the\nabsurdity of having laws which made the death penalty available for the\nmurder of a federal postal inspector but not for ther murder of a\ncivilian teacher, when the latter [arguably] provided a much more\nvalueable service and therefore would be the greater loss to society.\nThis was an emotionally compelling argument, but even the proponents of\nthat viewpoint appeared to tacitly assume that the state should judge\nsome lives as being more valuable than others on the basis of their\n\"contribution to society.\" I view that doctrine as being both (a)\npersonally repugnant and (b) repugnant to the Equal Protection clause of\nthe 14th Amendment.\n\nAccordingly, I believe that there should be no laws which give any\nprofession-based class of people special protection (via the mechanism\nof supplying stronger statutory deterrence of crimes against members of\nthat class), not even police officers, federal officers or high-ranking\nmembers of the Executive Branch of the federal government.", "\n\n( I AGREE ! )\n\n\n\n\tI think the problem here is that Mrs. Reno strikes me\n( After watching NightLine Last night ) as a person who is incapable\nof understanding OR dealing with a great number of things.\n", "The only reason for the death penalty is revenge?? If you are going to\ntry to refute a position, try to refute the whole position or acknosledge\nthat you are only speaking to small piece of the problem. Broad sweeping\n\"the only reason, \" etc on as tough nut to crack as the death penalty\nreallly doesn't help much.\n\nEvery year the FBI releases crime stats showing an overwhelming amount of\ncrime is committed by repeat offenders. People are killed by folks who\nhave killed (who knows how many times) before. How aobut folks who are for\nthe death penalty, not for revenge, but to cut down on recidivism?\n", "I would like to apologize for the typos in the previous post.\n\nIn retrospect I would also like to quote another source: Douglas C.\nHaldeman from his 1991 book _Homosexuality_\n\nTHERAPY INEFFECTIVE\n\nRecently the founders of yet another prominent \"ex-gay\" ministry, Exodus\nInternational, denounced their conversion therapy procedures as ineffective.\nMichael Busse and Gary Cooper, cofounders of Exodus International and lovers\nfor 13 years, were involved with the organization from 1976 to 1979. The\nprogram was described by these men as \"ineffective . . . not one person was\nhealed.\" They stated that the program often exacerbated already prominent\nfeelings of guilt and personal failure among the counselees; many were\ndriven to suicidal thoughts as a result of the failed \"reparative therapy.\"\n\nThe previous article quoted in the last posting is from THE ADVOCATE, June\n30, 1992 called \"The Ex-Ex-Gay\" by Robert Pela.\n\nSome personal thoughts:\n\nIt is of no great astonishment that there is a concerted effort by a major\nportion of the Church to control and mandate change of a minority among\nits ranks. This was the momentum behind the Spanish Inquisition, only all\nthey required was a confession of faith (after much torture) and then, to\nsave their souls they would dispatch them to heaven through death. Even\nlater, the Bible was used vigorously to defend slavery, oppression and\nsegragation of African-Americans, even to the justification of lynchings.\nToday's scholars are just a bit more slick in their approach. The tool is\nstill coersion, but now it is mostly by means of brainwashing and mind\ncontrol, convincing people that they should see themselves as less than\nGod sees them, then maintaining a cultic hold on them until it is felt\nthier mind-conditioning is complete. Sure, no one is \"physically\" forced\nto stay in this \"reparative therapy\" but sheer social pressure is enough for\nmany to keep themselves in this new found bondage of self-hate.\n\nAs an abolitionist I advocate the abolishment of oppression and persecution\nagainst gays in all facets of civil life. A person should be judged by\nthe contibution, or non-contribution to the society in which they live,\nnot by some high-brow standard of conformity imposed by those who haven';t\na clue what is in their heart.\n\nFor those who seek more information about Gays and groups that accept them\nplease contact your nearest chapter of PFLAG (Parents & Friends of Lesbians\nAnd Gays) who will be more than happy to assist you. This is a group of\npeople comprised of Gays, Lesbians and Bisexuals, their parents and friends\nwho have formed a support group for help and understanding. Try talking to\na parent of a gay son or daughter and learn some \"first-hand\" real life and\nloving understanding. God's love and understanding for Gay people is no\nless abundant.", "I think it was Lewis who said that in a wedding, it's the principals \nthat marry each other; the church and the state are present merely as \nwitnesses.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------\nRob Steele In coming to understand anything \nMIT Lincoln Laboratory we are rejecting the facts as they\n244 Wood St., M-203 are for us in favour of the facts\nLexington, MA 02173 as they are. \n617/981-2575 C.S. Lewis", "If you think that kind of uncalled for blanket statement will\ncause censorship at Mr. Jefferson's university you are wrong.\n", "\n\n------------ Part 13 of 14 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End of part 13 of 14 --------\n", " We don't disagree on this. All I said was that a right is whatever\nyou or somebody acting for you can enforce. The Bill of Rights didn't\ncome into effect until it was ratified by the states (and indirectly,\nthe people); from that point it defined legal rights. \"Common law\"\nrights are vague and situational; that's why the people insisted on a\nBill of Rights in the Constitution, spelling out exactly what they\ndemanded from the government. Legitimate or illegitimate, power is\npower. That's why the federal government can force states to grant\ntheir citizens rights they don't wish to: In a slugging match, the feds\nwin. Period.\n\n And you're right, this doesn't belong in sci.space. I've said my\npeace. No more frome me on rights (at least not here).\n", "\nI recently watched a an episode of \"The Old West\" a TV show on the \nDiscovery Channel (or perhaps the A&E Network), the one hosted by Kenny\nRogers. This episode was all about the Mormons and how they settled Utah,\netc.\n\nA large portion of the broadcast was about the \"Mountain Meadows Massacre\".\nThe program very specifically pointed out that Brigham Young knew nothing\nabout the incident until long after it had happened (before telegraph), and\nit occured as a result of several men inciting a bunch of paronoid Moromn\nsettlers into what amounted to a mob. All participants in the incident were\nprosecuted and eccomunicated from the LDS Church.\n\nI suggest you watch a rerun of that episode (they play them over and over) \nand see what they (non-Mormons) have to say about it.\n\n\nLance\n\n\n", " Doug Holland claims Tom Clancy has provided the recipe for nuclear bombs.\n Clancy himself says he has omitted certain crucial steps. Further, how do we\n know Clancy knows, rather than repeating what he's read or been told in the\n unclassified domain?\n\nOn the other hand, when John Aristotle Phillips was a junior at Princeton\ntrying to keep from flunking physics by doing a terrific term paper,\nhis atom bomb design was good enough that it got classified.\nA few of the steps were derived from social engineering \n(e.g. the name of the explosive), but it was fundamentally sound (and DID get an A.)\nThe Pakistan embassy also called him up trying to get a copy;\nat the time they were lobbying the US government to get some nuclear\nreactors for \"purely non-military\" electrical power generation.\n\n", "\nAgain, Mr. Frank has come to the rescue with his cool headed reason. How\nabout, \"One charge per victim?\" Of course I'll think about it in a few days\nand find a case where this doesn't apply either. \n\nWhat the heck, I don't study law, I just hate lawyers. :)\n", ": \n: I am facinated by the things I have heard about the PGP\n: encryption program. Does anybody out there know where I might get a\n: version of this program that runs under Windows 3.1, MS-Dos, Unix\n: w/source? As of this writting I have no UNIX access and am running on a\n: nifty windows implamentation of uucico.\n\nAt the moment PGP is available in executable format for MS-DOS and Mac,\nand source code for most other platforms including UNIX. Many FTP sites\nkeep a copy (although the Mac version is getting hard to find). Try the\nfollowing site:\n\nsoda.berkeley.edu /pub/cypherpunks/pgp\n\nJon", "\nWhere did that idea come from? It's news to me.", "...\n\nAnother April 1 posting. Ahhh.", "\nIt's not the temperature, it's the karma. You see, dirt has good karma,\nsince it's all organic and full of living things, but cement is all squared\noff and artificial looking, and has lost its karma in the process. Being\na karma sink, it sucks all of the good karma out of the battery which is no\nlonger able to keep a charge. Because wood is also good and organic, putting\na board between the battery and the cement will fix the problems.", "Seeking North Carolina beach rental. Desire house for two\nfamilies (4 adults, 3 kids) for one week in late June/early\nJuly.\n ", "We have received a number of requests for a reposting of the\nInternational Obfuscated C Code Contest rules and guidelines. Also\nsome people requested that these rules be posted to a wider set of\ngroups. Sorry for the cross posting.\n\nSome technical clarifications were made to the rules and guidelines.\n(See the diff marks at the right hand edge) The rules and guidelines\nfor this year remain the same, so people who have already or are\nin the process of submitting entries for the 1993 IOCCC need not worry \nabout these changes.\n\nchongo /\\cc/\\ chongo@toad.com\nLarry Bassel lab@sun.com\n\n=-=\n\n#!/bin/sh\n# This is part 02 of a multipart archive\n# ============= mkentry.c ==============\necho \"x - extracting mkentry.c (Text)\"\nsed 's/^X//' << 'SHAR_EOF' > mkentry.c &&\nX/* @(#)mkentry.c\t1.25 4/5/93 15:58:08 */\nX/*\nX * Copyright (c) Landon Curt Noll & Larry Bassel, 1993.\nX * All Rights Reserved. Permission for personal, education or non-profit use\nX * is granted provided this this copyright and notice are included in its\nX * entirety and remains unaltered. All other uses must receive prior\nX * permission in writing from both Landon Curt Noll and Larry Bassel.\nX */\nX/*\nX * mkentry - make an International Obfuscated C Code Contest entry\nX *\nX * usage:\nX *\tmkentry -r remarks -b build -p prog.c -o ioccc.entry\nX *\nX *\t-r remarks\t\tfile with remarks about the entry\nX *\t-b build\t\tfile containing how prog.c should be built\nX *\t-p prog.c\t\tthe obfuscated program source file\nX *\t-o ioccc.entry\t\tioccc entry output file\nX *\nX * compile by:\nX *\tcc mkentry.c -o mkentry\nX */\nX/*\nX * Placed in the public domain by Landon Curt Noll, 1992.\nX *\nX * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED ``AS IS'' AND WITHOUT ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED\nX * WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF\nX * MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.\nX */\nX/*\nX * WARNING:\nX *\nX * This program attempts to implement the IOCCC rules. Every attempt\nX * has been made to make sure that this program produces an entry that\nX * conforms to the contest rules. In all cases, where this program\nX * differs from the contest rules, the contest rules will be used. Be\nX * sure to check with the contest rules before submitting an entry.\nX *\nX * FOR MORE INFORMATION:\nX *\nX * You may contact the judges by sending Email to the following address:\nX *\nX *\t...!{apple,pyramid,sun,uunet}!hoptoad!judges\t(not the address for\nX *\tjudges@toad.com\t\t\t\t\t submitting entries)\nX *\nX * Questions and comments about the contest are welcome.\nX *\nX * The rules and the guidelines may (and often do) change from year to\nX * year. You should be sure you have the current rules and guidelines\nX * prior to submitting entries. To obtain them, send Email to the address\nX * above and use the subject 'send rules'.\nX *\nX * One may obtain winners of previous contests (1984 to date), via ftp from:\nX *\nX *\thost: ftp.uu.net\t(192.48.96.9)\nX *\tuser: anonymous\nX *\tpass: yourname@yourhost\nX *\tdir: ~/pub/ioccc\nX *\nX * As a last resort, previous winners may be obtained by sending Email\nX * to the above address. Please use the subject 'send YEAR winners',\nX * where YEAR is a single 4 digit year, a year range, or 'all'.\nX *\nX * Because contest rules change from year to year, one should only use this\nX * program for the year that it was intended. Be sure that the RULE_YEAR\nX * define below matches this current year.\nX */\nX\nX#include \nX#include \nX#include \nX#include \nX#include \nX\nX/* logic */\nX#ifndef TRUE\nX# define TRUE 1\nX#endif /* TRUE */\nX#ifndef FALSE\nX# define FALSE 0\nX#endif /* FALSE */\nX#define EOF_OK TRUE\nX#define EOF_NOT_OK FALSE\nX\nX/* global limits */\nX#define RULE_YEAR 1993\t\t/* NOTE: should match the current year */\nX#define START_DATE \"1Mar92 0:00 UTC\"\t/* first confirmation received */\nX#define MAX_COL 79\t\t/* max column a line should hit */\nX#define MAX_BUILD_SIZE 256\t/* max how to build size */\nX#define MAX_PROGRAM_SIZE 3217\t/* max program source size */\nX#define MAX_PROGRAM_SIZE2 1536\t/* max program source size not counting\nX\t\t\t\t whitespace and {}; not followed by\nX\t\t\t\t whitespace or EOF */\nX#define MAX_TITLE_LEN 12\t/* max chars in the title */\nX#define MAX_ENTRY_LEN 1\t\t/* max length in the entry input line */\nX#define MAX_ENTRY 8\t\t/* max number of entries per person per year */\nX#define MAX_FILE_LEN 1024\t/* max filename length for a info file */\nX\nX/* where to send entries */\nX#define ENTRY_ADDR1 \"...!{apple,pyramid,sun,uunet}!hoptoad!obfuscate\"\nX#define ENTRY_ADDR2 \"obfuscate@toad.com\"\nX\nX/* uuencode process - assumes ASCII */\nX#define UUENCODE(c) (encode_str[(int)(c)&0xff])\nX#define UUENCODE_LEN 45\t\t/* max uuencode chunk size */\nX#define UUINFO_MODE 0444\t/* mode of an info file's uuencode file */\nX#define UUBUILD_MODE 0444\t/* mode of the build file's uuencode file */\nX#define UUBUILD_NAME \"build\"\t/* name for the build file's uuencode file */\nX#define UUPROG_MODE 0444\t/* mode of the program's uuencode file */\nX#define UUPROG_NAME \"prog.c\"\t/* name for the program's uuencode file */\nX\nX/* encode_str[(char)val] is the uuencoded character of val */\nXchar encode_str[256+1] = \"`!\\\"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\\\\]^_ !\\\"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\\\\]^_ !\\\"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\\\\]^_ !\\\"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\\\\]^_\";\nX\nX/* global declarations */\nXchar *program;\t\t\t/* our name */\nXlong start_time;\t\t/* the startup time */\nX\nX/* forward declarations */\nXvoid parse_args();\nXvoid usage();\nXFILE *open_remark();\nXFILE *open_build();\nXFILE *open_program();\nXFILE *open_output();\nXvoid output_entry();\nXvoid output_remark();\nXvoid output_author();\nXvoid output_info();\nXvoid output_build();\nXvoid output_program();\nXvoid output_end();\nXint get_line();\nXvoid output_till_dot();\nXint col_len();\nXvoid check_io();\nXvoid uuencode();\nX\nXmain(argc, argv)\nX int argc;\t\t/* arg count */\nX char **argv;\t/* the args */\nX{\nX FILE *remark=NULL;\t/* open remarks stream */\nX FILE *build=NULL;\t/* open build file stream */\nX FILE *prog=NULL;\t/* open program stream */\nX FILE *output=NULL;\t/* open output stream */\nX char *rname=NULL;\t/* file with remarks about the entry */\nX char *bname=NULL;\t/* file containing how prog.c should be built */\nX char *pname=NULL;\t/* the obfuscated program source file */\nX char *oname=NULL;\t/* ioccc entry output file */\nX struct tm *tm;\t/* startup time structure */\nX\nX /*\nX * check on the year\nX */\nX start_time = time((long *)0);\nX tm = gmtime(&start_time);\nX if (tm->tm_year != RULE_YEAR-1900) {\nX\tfprintf(stderr,\nX\t\"%s: WARNING: this program applies to %d, which may differ from %d\\n\\n\",\nX\t argv[0], RULE_YEAR, 1900+tm->tm_year);\nX }\nX\nX /*\nX * parse the command line args\nX */\nX parse_args(argc, argv, &rname, &bname, &pname, &oname);\nX\nX /*\nX * open/check the input and output files\nX *\nX * We open and truncate the output file first, in case it is the same\nX * as one of the input files.\nX */\nX output = open_output(oname);\nX remark = open_remark(rname);\nX build = open_build(bname);\nX prog = open_program(pname);\nX if (output==NULL || remark==NULL || build==NULL || prog==NULL) {\nX\texit(1);\nX }\nX\nX /*\nX * output each section\nX */\nX output_entry(output, oname);\nX output_remark(output, oname, remark, rname);\nX output_author(output, oname);\nX output_info(output, oname);\nX output_build(output, oname, build, bname);\nX output_program(output, oname, prog, pname);\nX output_end(output, oname);\nX\nX /*\nX * flush the output\nX */\nX if (fflush(output) == EOF) {\nX\tfprintf(stderr, \"%s: flush error in %s: \", program, oname);\nX\tperror(\"\");\nX\texit(2);\nX }\nX\nX /*\nX * final words\nX */\nX printf(\"\\nYour entry can be found in %s. You should check this file\\n\",\nX\toname);\nX printf(\"correct any problems and verify that the uudecode utility will\\n\");\nX printf(\"correctly decode your build file and program.\\n\\n\");\nX printf(\"This program has been provided as a guide for submitters. In\\n\");\nX printf(\"cases where it conflicts with the rules, the rules shall apply.\\n\");\nX printf(\"It is your responsibility to ensure that your entry conforms to\\n\");\nX printf(\"the current rules.\\n\\n\");\nX printf(\"Email your entries to:\\n\");\nX printf(\"\\t%s\\n\", ENTRY_ADDR1);\nX printf(\"\\t%s\\n\\n\", ENTRY_ADDR2);\nX printf(\"Please use the following subject when you Email your entry:\\n\");\nX printf(\"\\tioccc entry\\n\\n\");\nX /* all done */\nX exit(0);\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * parse_args - parse the command line args\nX *\nX * Given the command line args, this function parses them and sets the\nX * required name flags. This function will return only if the command\nX * line syntax is correct.\nX */\nXvoid\nXparse_args(argc, argv, rname, bname, pname, oname)\nX int argc;\t\t/* arg count */\nX char **argv;\t/* the args */\nX char **rname;\t/* file with remarks about the entry */\nX char **bname;\t/* file containing how prog.c should be built */\nX char **pname;\t/* the obfuscated program source file */\nX char **oname;\t/* ioccc entry output file */\nX{\nX char *optarg;\t/* -flag option operand */\nX int flagname;\t/* the name of the -flag */\nX int i;\nX\nX /*\nX * Not everyone has getopt, so we must parse args by hand.\nX */\nX program = argv[0];\nX for (i=1; i < argc; ++i) {\nX\nX\t/* determine the flagname */\nX\tif (argv[i][0] != '-') {\nX\t usage(1);\nX\t /*NOTREACHED*/\nX\t}\nX\tflagname = (int)argv[i][1];\nX\nX\t/* determine the flag's operand */\nX\tif (flagname != '\\0' && argv[i][2] != '\\0') {\nX\t optarg = &argv[i][2];\nX\t} else {\nX\t if (i+1 >= argc) {\nX\t\tusage(2);\nX\t\t/*NOTREACHED*/\nX\t } else {\nX\t\toptarg = argv[++i];\nX\t }\nX\t}\nX\nX\t/* save the flag's operand in the correct global variable */\nX\tswitch (flagname) {\nX\tcase 'r':\nX\t *rname = optarg;\nX\t break;\nX\tcase 'b':\nX\t *bname = optarg;\nX\t break;\nX\tcase 'p':\nX\t *pname = optarg;\nX\t break;\nX\tcase 'o':\nX\t *oname = optarg;\nX\t break;\nX\tdefault:\nX\t usage(3);\nX\t /*NOTREACHED*/\nX\t}\nX }\nX\nX /*\nX * verify that we have all of the required flags\nX */\nX if (*rname == NULL || *bname == NULL || *pname == NULL || *oname == NULL) {\nX\tusage(4);\nX\t/*NOTREACHED*/\nX }\nX return;\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * usage - print a usage message and exit\nX *\nX * This function does not return.\nX */\nXvoid\nXusage(exitval)\nX int exitval;\t\t/* exit with this value */\nX{\nX fprintf(stderr,\nX\t\"usage: %s -r remarks -b build -p prog.c -o ioccc.entry\\n\\n\", program);\nX fprintf(stderr, \"\\t-r remarks\\tfile with remarks about the entry\\n\");\nX fprintf(stderr, \"\\t-b build\\tfile containing how prog.c should be built\\n\");\nX fprintf(stderr, \"\\t-p prog.c\\tthe obfuscated program source file\\n\");\nX fprintf(stderr, \"\\t-o ioccc.entry\\tioccc entry output file\\n\");\nX exit(exitval);\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * open_remark - open/check the remark file\nX *\nX * The remark file should be indented by 4 spaces, and should not extend\nX * beyond column MAX_COL. These are not requirements, so we only warn.\nX *\nX * This function returns NULL on I/O or format error.\nX */\nXFILE *\nXopen_remark(filename)\nX char *filename;\nX{\nX FILE *stream;\t\t/* the opened file stream */\nX char buf[BUFSIZ+1];\t\t/* input buffer */\nX int toolong=0;\t\t/* number of lines that are too long */\nX int non_indent=0;\t\t/* number of lines not indented by 4 spaces */\nX\nX /*\nX * open the remark input file\nX */\nX stream = fopen(filename, \"r\");\nX if (stream == NULL) {\nX\tfprintf(stderr, \"%s: cannot open remark file: %s: \",\nX\t program, filename);\nX\tperror(\"\");\nX\treturn(NULL);\nX }\nX\nX /*\nX * look at each line\nX */\nX while (fgets(buf, BUFSIZ, stream) != NULL) {\nX\nX\t/* count lines that do not start with 4 spaces */\nX\tif (buf[0] != '\\n' && strncmp(buf, \" \", 4) != 0) {\nX\t ++non_indent;\nX\t}\nX\nX\t/* count long lines */\nX\tif (col_len(buf) > MAX_COL) {\nX\t /* found a line that is too long */\nX\t ++toolong;\nX\t}\nX }\nX\nX /* watch for I/O errors */\nX check_io(stream, filename, EOF_OK);\nX\nX /* note long lines if needed */\nX if (toolong > 0) {\nX\tfprintf(stderr,\nX\t \"%s: WARNING: %d line(s) from %s extend beyond the 80th column\\n\",\nX\t program, toolong, filename);\nX\tfprintf(stderr,\nX\t \"%s: This is ok, but it would be nice to avoid\\n\\n\",\nX\t program);\nX }\nX\nX /* note non-indented lines, if needed */\nX if (non_indent > 0) {\nX\tfprintf(stderr,\nX\t \"%s: WARNING: %d line(s) from %s are not indented by 4 spaces\\n\",\nX\t program, non_indent, filename);\nX\tfprintf(stderr,\nX\t \"%s: This is ok, but it would be nice to avoid\\n\\n\",\nX\t program);\nX }\nX\nX /* return the open file */\nX rewind(stream);\nX return(stream);\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * open_build - open/check the build file\nX *\nX * The how to build file must not be longer than MAX_BUILD_SIZE bytes.\nX *\nX * This function returns NULL on I/O or size error.\nX */\nXFILE *\nXopen_build(filename)\nX char *filename;\nX{\nX FILE *stream;\t\t/* the opened file stream */\nX struct stat statbuf;\t/* the status of the open file */\nX\nX /*\nX * open the how to build input file\nX */\nX stream = fopen(filename, \"r\");\nX if (stream == NULL) {\nX\tfprintf(stderr, \"%s: cannot open how to build file: %s: \",\nX\t program, filename);\nX\tperror(\"\");\nX\treturn(NULL);\nX }\nX\nX /*\nX * determine the size of the file\nX */\nX if (fstat(fileno(stream), &statbuf) < 0) {\nX\tfprintf(stderr, \"%s: cannot stat how to build file: %s: \",\nX\t program, filename);\nX\tperror(\"\");\nX\treturn(NULL);\nX }\nX if (statbuf.st_size > MAX_BUILD_SIZE) {\nX\tfprintf(stderr,\nX\t \"%s: FATAL: the how to build file: %s, is %d bytes long\\n\",\nX\t program, filename, statbuf.st_size);\nX\tfprintf(stderr,\nX\t \"%s: it may not be longer than %d bytes\\n\",\nX\t program, MAX_BUILD_SIZE);\nX\treturn(NULL);\nX }\nX\nX /* return the open file */\nX return(stream);\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * open_program - open/check the program source file\nX *\nX * The program source file must be <= 3217 bytes. The number of\nX * non-whitespace and }{; chars not followed by whitespace must\nX * be <= 1536 bytes.\nX *\nX * This function returns NULL on I/O or size error.\nX */\nXFILE *\nXopen_program(filename)\nX char *filename;\nX{\nX FILE *stream;\t\t/* the opened file stream */\nX struct stat statbuf;\t/* the status of the open file */\nX int count;\t\t\t/* special count size */\nX int c;\t\t\t/* the character read */\nX\nX /*\nX * open the program source input file\nX */\nX stream = fopen(filename, \"r\");\nX if (stream == NULL) {\nX\tfprintf(stderr, \"%s: cannot open program source file: %s: \",\nX\t program, filename);\nX\tperror(\"\");\nX\texit(7);\nX }\nX\nX /*\nX * determine the size of the file\nX */\nX if (fstat(fileno(stream), &statbuf) < 0) {\nX\tfprintf(stderr, \"%s: cannot stat program source file: %s: \",\nX\t program, filename);\nX\tperror(\"\");\nX\treturn(NULL);\nX }\nX if (statbuf.st_size > MAX_PROGRAM_SIZE) {\nX\tfprintf(stderr,\nX\t \"%s: FATAL: the program source file: %s, is %d bytes long\\n\",\nX\t program, filename, statbuf.st_size);\nX\tfprintf(stderr,\nX\t \"%s: it may not be longer than %d bytes\\n\",\nX\t program, MAX_PROGRAM_SIZE);\nX\treturn(NULL);\nX }\nX\nX /*\nX * count the non-whitespace, non {}; followed by whitespace chars\nX */\nX count = 0;\nX c = 0;\nX while ((c=fgetc(stream)) != EOF) {\nX\t/* look at non-whitespace */\nX\tif (!isascii(c) || !isspace(c)) {\nX\t switch (c) {\nX\t case '{':\t\t/* count if not followed by EOF or whitespace */\nX\t case '}':\nX\t case ';':\nX\t\t/* peek at next char */\nX\t\tc = fgetc(stream);\nX\t\tif (c != EOF && isascii(c) && !isspace(c)) {\nX\t\t /* not followed by whitespace or EOF, count it */\nX\t\t ungetc(c, stream);\nX\t\t ++count;\nX\t\t}\nX\t\tbreak;\nX\t default:\nX\t\t++count;\nX\t\tbreak;\nX\t }\nX\t}\nX }\nX\nX /* watch for I/O errors */\nX check_io(stream, filename, EOF_OK);\nX\nX /* look at the special size */\nX if (count > MAX_PROGRAM_SIZE2) {\nX\tfprintf(stderr,\nX\t \"%s: FATAL: the number of bytes that are non-whitespace, and\\n\",\nX\t program);\nX\tfprintf(stderr,\nX\t \"%s: that are not '{', '}', ';' followed by whitespace\\n\",\nX\t program);\nX\tfprintf(stderr,\nX\t \"%s: or EOF must be <= %d bytes\\n\",\nX\t program, MAX_PROGRAM_SIZE2);\nX\tfprintf(stderr,\nX\t \"%s: in %s, %d bytes were found\\n\",\nX\t program, filename, count);\nX\treturn(NULL);\nX }\nX\nX /* return the open file */\nX rewind(stream);\nX return(stream);\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * open_output - open/check the entry output file\nX *\nX * This function returns NULL on open error.\nX */\nXFILE *\nXopen_output(filename)\nX char *filename;\nX{\nX FILE *stream;\t\t/* the opened file stream */\nX\nX /*\nX * open the ioccc entry output file\nX */\nX stream = fopen(filename, \"w\");\nX if (stream == NULL) {\nX\tfprintf(stderr, \"%s: cannot open ioccc entry file for output: %s: \",\nX\t program, filename);\nX\tperror(\"\");\nX\texit(8);\nX }\nX\nX /* return the open file */\nX return(stream);\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * output_entry - output the ---entry--- section\nX *\nX * Read the needed information form stdin, and write the entry section.\nX */\nXvoid\nXoutput_entry(output, oname)\nX FILE *output;\t\t/* entry's output file stream */\nX char *oname;\t\t/* name of the output file */\nX{\nX char title[MAX_TITLE_LEN+1+1];\t/* the entry's title */\nX char buf[MAX_COL+1+1];\t\t/* I/O buffer */\nX int entry=0;\t\t\t/* entry number */\nX int ret;\t\t\t\t/* fields processed by fscanf */\nX int ok_line=0;\t\t\t/* 0 => the line is not ok */\nX char skip;\t\t\t\t/* input to skip */\nX FILE *date_pipe;\t\t\t/* pipe to a date command */\nX time_t epoch_sec;\t\t\t/* seconds since the epoch */\nX char *p;\nX\nX /*\nX * write the start of the section\nX */\nX fprintf(output, \"---entry---\\n\");\nX check_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX /*\nX * write the rule year\nX */\nX fprintf(output, \"rule:\\t%d\\n\", RULE_YEAR);\nX check_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX /* determine if this is a fix */\nX printf(\"Is this a fix, update or resubmittion to a \");\nX printf(\"previous entry (enter y or n)? \");\nX while (get_line(buf, 1+1, 0) <= 0 || !(buf[0]=='y' || buf[0]=='n')) {\nX\tprintf(\"\\nplease answer y or n: \");\nX }\nX if (buf[0] == 'y') {\nX\tfprintf(output, \"fix:\\ty\\n\");\nX\tcheck_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\tprintf(\"\\nBe sure that the title and entry number that you give\\n\");\nX\tprintf(\"are the same of as the entry you are replacing\\n\");\nX } else {\nX\tfprintf(output, \"fix:\\tn\\n\");\nX\tcheck_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX }\nX\nX /*\nX * write the title\nX */\nX printf(\"\\nYour title must match expression be a [a-zA-Z0-9_=] character\\n\");\nX printf(\"followed by 0 to %d more [a-zA-Z0-9_=+-] characters.\\n\\n\",\nX\tMAX_TITLE_LEN-1);\nX printf(\"It is suggested, but not required, that the title should\\n\");\nX printf(\"incorporate your username; in the\\n\");\nX printf(\"case of multiple authors, consider using parts of the usernames\\n\");\nX printf(\"of the authors.\\n\\n\");\nX printf(\"enter your title: \");\nX do {\nX\t/* prompt and read a line */\nX\tif ((ok_line = get_line(title, MAX_TITLE_LEN+1, MAX_COL-9)) <= 0) {\nX\t printf(\"\\ntitle is too long, please re-enter: \");\nX\t continue;\nX\t}\nX\nX\t/* verify the pattern, not everyone has regexp, so do it by hand */\nX\tif (!isascii((int)title[0]) ||\nX\t !(isalnum((int)title[0]) || title[0] == '_' || title[0] == '=')) {\nX\t printf(\"\\ninvalid first character in the title\\n\\n\");\nX\t printf(\"enter your title: \");\nX\t ok_line = 0;\nX\t} else {\nX\t for (p=(&title[1]); *p != '\\0' && *p != '\\n'; ++p) {\nX\t\tif (!isascii((int)*p) ||\nX\t\t !(isalnum((int)*p) ||\nX\t\t *p == '_' || *p == '=' || *p == '+' || *p == '-')) {\nX\t\t printf(\"\\ninvalid character in the title\\n\\n\");\nX\t\t printf(\"enter your title: \");\nX\t\t ok_line = 0;\nX\t\t}\nX\t }\nX\t}\nX } while (ok_line <= 0);\nX fprintf(output, \"title:\\t%s\", title);\nX check_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX /*\nX * write the entry number\nX */\nX printf(\"\\nEach person may submit up to %d entries per year.\\n\\n\",\nX\tMAX_ENTRY);\nX printf(\"enter an entry number from 0 to %d inclusive: \", MAX_ENTRY-1);\nX do {\nX\t/* get a valid input line */\nX\tfflush(stdout);\nX\tret = fscanf(stdin, \"%d[\\n]\", &entry);\nX\tcheck_io(stdin, \"stdin\", EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\t/* skip over input until newline is found */\nX\tdo {\nX\t skip = fgetc(stdin);\nX\t check_io(stdin, \"stdin\", EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\t if (skip != '\\n') {\nX\t\t/* bad text in input, invalidate entry number */\nX\t\tentry = -1;\nX\t }\nX\t} while (skip != '\\n');\nX\nX\t/* check if we have a number, and if it is in range */\nX\tif (ret != 1 || entry < 0 || entry > MAX_ENTRY-1) {\nX\t printf(\nX\t \"\\nThe entry number must be between 0 and %d inclusive\\n\\n\",\nX\t\tMAX_ENTRY-1);\nX\t printf(\"enter the entry number: \");\nX\t}\nX } while (ret != 1 || entry < 0 || entry > MAX_ENTRY-1);\nX fprintf(output, \"entry:\\t%d\\n\", entry);\nX check_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX /*\nX * write the submission date\nX */\nX /* returns a newline */\nX epoch_sec = time(NULL);\nX fprintf(output, \"date:\\t%s\", asctime(gmtime(&epoch_sec)));\nX check_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX /*\nX * write the OS/machine host information\nX */\nX printf(\nX \"\\nEnter the machine(s) and OS(s) under which your entry was tested.\\n\");\nX output_till_dot(output, oname, \"host:\");\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * output_remark - output the ---remark--- section\nX *\nX * Read the needed information form stdin, and write the entry section.\nX */\nXvoid\nXoutput_remark(output, oname, remark, rname)\nX FILE *output;\t\t/* entry's output file stream */\nX char *oname;\t\t/* name of the output file */\nX FILE *remark;\t\t/* stream to the file containing remark text */\nX char *rname;\t\t/* name of the remark file */\nX{\nX char buf[BUFSIZ+1];\t\t/* input/output buffer */\nX\nX /*\nX * write the start of the section\nX */\nX fprintf(output, \"---remark---\\n\");\nX check_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX /*\nX * copy the remark file to the section\nX */\nX while (fgets(buf, BUFSIZ, remark) != NULL) {\nX\tfputs(buf, output);\nX\tcheck_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX }\nX check_io(remark, rname, EOF_OK);\nX\nX /* be sure that the remark section ends with a newline */\nX if (buf[strlen(buf)-1] != '\\n') {\nX\tfputc('\\n', output);\nX\tcheck_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX }\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * output_author - output the ---author--- section\nX *\nX * Read the needed information from stdin, and write the author section.\nX * If multiple authors exist, multiple author sections will be written.\nX */\nXvoid\nXoutput_author(output, oname)\nX FILE *output;\t\t/* entry's output file stream */\nX char *oname;\t\t/* name of the output file */\nX{\nX char buf[MAX_COL+1+1];\t/* I/O buffer */\nX int more_auths;\t\t/* TRUE => more authors to note */\nX int auth_cnt=0;\t\t/* number of authors processed */\nX\nX /*\nX * prompt the user for the author section\nX */\nX printf(\"\\nEnter information about each author. If your entry is after\\n\");\nX printf(\"%s and before the contest deadline, the judges\\n\", START_DATE);\nX printf(\"will attempt to Email back a confirmation to the first author\\n\");\nX\nX /*\nX * place author information for each author in an individual section\nX */\nX do {\nX\nX\t/* write the start of the section */\nX\tfprintf(output, \"---author---\\n\");\nX\tcheck_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX\t/* write the author */\nX\tprintf(\"\\nAuthor #%d name: \", ++auth_cnt);\nX\twhile (get_line(buf, MAX_COL+1, MAX_COL-9) <= 0) {\nX\t printf(\"\\nname too long, please re-enter: \");\nX\t}\nX\tfprintf(output, \"name:\\t%s\", buf);\nX\tcheck_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX\t/* write the organization */\nX\tprintf(\"\\nEnter the School/Company/Organization of author #%d\\n\",\nX\t auth_cnt);\nX\tprintf(\"\\nAuthor #%d org: \", auth_cnt);\nX\twhile (get_line(buf, MAX_COL+1, MAX_COL-9) <= 0) {\nX\t printf(\"\\nline too long, please re-enter: \");\nX\t}\nX\tfprintf(output, \"org:\\t%s\", buf);\nX\tcheck_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX\t/* write the address */\nX\tprintf(\nX\t \"\\nEnter the postal address for author #%d. Be sure to include\\n\",\nX\t auth_cnt);\nX\tprintf(\"your country and do not include your name.\\n\");\nX\toutput_till_dot(output, oname, \"addr:\");\nX\nX\t/* write the Email address */\nX\tprintf(\nX\t \"\\nEnter the Email address for author #%d. Use an address from\\n\",\nX\t auth_cnt);\nX\tprintf(\nX\t \"a registered domain or well known site. If you give several\\n\");\nX\tprintf(\"forms, list them one per line.\\n\");\nX\toutput_till_dot(output, oname, \"email:\");\nX\nX\t/* write the anonymous status */\nX\tprintf(\"\\nShould author #%d remain anonymous (enter y or n)? \",\nX\t auth_cnt);\nX\twhile (get_line(buf, 1+1, 0) <= 0 || !(buf[0]=='y' || buf[0]=='n')) {\nX\t printf(\"\\nplease answer y or n: \");\nX\t}\nX\tfprintf(output, \"anon:\\t%s\", buf);\nX\tcheck_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX\t/* determine if there is another author */\nX\tprintf(\"\\nIs there another author (enter y or n)? \");\nX\twhile (get_line(buf, 1+1, 0) <= 0 || !(buf[0]=='y' || buf[0]=='n')) {\nX\t printf(\"\\nplease answer y or n: \");\nX\t}\nX\tif (buf[0] == 'y') {\nX\t more_auths = TRUE;\nX\t} else {\nX\t more_auths = FALSE;\nX\t}\nX } while (more_auths == TRUE);\nX return;\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * output_info - output the ---info--- section(s)\nX *\nX * Read the needed information from stdin, and write the info section.\nX * If multiple info files exist, multiple info sections will be written.\nX */\nXvoid\nXoutput_info(output, oname)\nX FILE *output;\t\t/* entry's output file stream */\nX char *oname;\t\t/* name of the output file */\nX{\nX char infoname[MAX_FILE_LEN+1];\t/* filename buffer */\nX char yorn[1+1];\t\t/* y or n answer */\nX char *uuname;\t\t/* name to uuencode as */\nX FILE *infile;\t\t/* info file stream */\nX\nX /*\nX * prompt the user for info information\nX */\nX printf(\"\\nInfo files should be used only to supplement your entry.\\n\");\nX printf(\"For example, info files may provide sample input or detailed\\n\");\nX printf(\"information about your entry. Because they are supplemental,\\n\");\nX printf(\"the entry should not require them to exist.\\n\\n\");\nX\nX /*\nX * while there is another info file to save, uuencode it\nX */\nX printf(\"Do you have a info file to include (enter y or n)? \");\nX while (get_line(yorn, 1+1, 0) <= 0 || !(yorn[0]=='y' || yorn[0]=='n')) {\nX\tprintf(\"\\nplease answer y or n: \");\nX }\nX while (yorn[0] == 'y') {\nX\nX\t/* read the filename */\nX\tprintf(\"\\nEnter the info filename: \");\nX\twhile (get_line(infoname, MAX_FILE_LEN+1, 0) <= 0) {\nX\t printf(\"\\nInfo filename too long, please re-enter: \");\nX\t}\nX\nX\t/* compute the basename of the info filename */\nX\t/* remove the trailing newline */\nX\tuuname = &infoname[strlen(infoname)-1];\nX\t*uuname = '\\0';\nX\t/* avoid rindex/shrrchr compat issues, do it by hand */\nX\tfor (--uuname; uuname > infoname; --uuname) {\nX\t if (*uuname == '/') {\nX\t\t++uuname;\nX\t\tbreak;\nX\t }\nX\t}\nX\nX\t/* attempt to open the info file */\nX\tinfile = fopen(infoname, \"r\");\nX\tif (infile == NULL) {\nX\t fprintf(stderr, \"\\n%s: cannot open info file: %s: \",\nX\t\tprogram, infoname);\nX\t perror(\"\");\nX\t continue;\nX\t}\nX\nX\t/*\nX\t * write the start of the section\nX\t */\nX\tfprintf(output, \"---info---\\n\");\nX\tcheck_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX\t/* uuencode the info file */\nX\tuuencode(output, oname, infile, infoname, UUINFO_MODE, uuname);\nX\nX\tprintf(\"\\nDo you have another info file to include (enter y or n)? \");\nX\twhile (get_line(yorn, 1+1, 0) <= 0 || !(yorn[0]=='y' || yorn[0]=='n')) {\nX\t printf(\"\\nplease answer y or n: \");\nX\t}\nX };\nX return;\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * output_build - output the ---build--- section\nX *\nX * Read the needed information from stdin, and write the build section.\nX */\nXvoid\nXoutput_build(output, oname, build, bname)\nX FILE *output;\t\t/* entry's output file stream */\nX char *oname;\t\t/* name of the output file */\nX FILE *build;\t\t/* open build file stream */\nX char *bname;\t\t/* name of the build file */\nX{\nX /*\nX * write the start of the section\nX */\nX fprintf(output, \"---build---\\n\");\nX check_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX /*\nX * uuencode the program file\nX */\nX uuencode(output, oname, build, bname, UUBUILD_MODE, UUBUILD_NAME);\nX return;\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * output_program - output the ---program--- section\nX *\nX * Read the needed information form stdin, and write the program section.\nX */\nXvoid\nXoutput_program(output, oname, prog, pname)\nX FILE *output;\t\t/* entry's output file stream */\nX char *oname;\t\t/* name of the output file */\nX FILE *prog;\t\t\t/* open program stream */\nX char *pname;\t\t/* name of program file */\nX{\nX /*\nX * write the start of the section\nX */\nX fprintf(output, \"---program---\\n\");\nX check_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX /*\nX * uuencode the program file\nX */\nX uuencode(output, oname, prog, pname, UUPROG_MODE, UUPROG_NAME);\nX return;\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * output_end - output the ---end--- section\nX *\nX * Read the needed information form stdin, and write the 'end section'.\nX */\nXvoid\nXoutput_end(output, oname)\nX FILE *output;\t\t/* entry's output file stream */\nX char *oname;\t\t/* name of the output file */\nX{\nX /*\nX * write the final section terminator\nX */\nX fprintf(output, \"---end---\\n\");\nX check_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX return;\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * get_line - get an answer from stdin\nX *\nX * This function will flush stdout, in case a prompt is pending, and\nX * read in the answer.\nX *\nX * This function returns 0 if the line is too long, of the length of the\nX * line (including the newline) of the line was ok. This function does\nX * not return if ERROR or EOF.\nX */\nXint\nXget_line(buf, siz, maxcol)\nX char *buf;\t\t\t/* input buffer */\nX int siz;\t\t\t/* length of input, including the newline */\nX int maxcol;\t\t\t/* max col allowed, 0 => disable check */\nX{\nX int length;\t\t\t/* the length of the input line */\nX\nX /* flush terminal output */\nX fflush(stdout);\nX\nX /* read the line */\nX if (fgets(buf, siz+1, stdin) == NULL) {\nX\t/* report the problem */\nX\tcheck_io(stdin, \"stdin\", EOF_NOT_OK);\nX }\nX\nX /* look for the newline */\nX length = strlen(buf);\nX if (buf[length-1] != '\\n') {\nX\tint eatchar;\t\t/* the char being eaten */\nX\nX\t/* no newline found, line must be too long, eat the rest of the line */\nX\tdo {\nX\t eatchar = fgetc(stdin);\nX\t} while (eatchar != EOF && eatchar != '\\n');\nX\tcheck_io(stdin, \"stdin\", EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX\t/* report the situation */\nX\treturn 0;\nX }\nX\nX /* watch for long lines, if needed */\nX if (maxcol > 0 && (length > maxcol || col_len(buf) > maxcol)) {\nX\t/* report the situation */\nX\treturn 0;\nX }\nX\nX /* return length */\nX return length;\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * output_till_dot - output a set of lines until '.' by itself is read\nX *\nX * This routine will read a set of lines until (but not including)\nX * a single line with '.' is read. The format of the output is:\nX *\nX *\tleader:\\tfirst line\nX *\t\\tnext line\nX *\t\\tnext line\nX *\t ...\nX *\nX * This routine will not return if I/O error or EOF.\nX */\nXvoid\nXoutput_till_dot(output, oname, leader)\nX FILE *output;\t\t/* entry's output file stream */\nX char *oname;\t\t/* name of the output file */\nX char *leader;\t\t/* the lead text for the first line */\nX{\nX char buf[BUFSIZ+1];\t\t/* input buffer */\nX int count;\t\t\t/* lines read */\nX int done=FALSE;\t\t/* TRUE => finished reading input */\nX\nX /* instruct the user on how to input */\nX printf(\"\\nTo end input, enter a line with a single period.\\n\");\nX\nX /* read lines until '.' or EOF */\nX count = 0;\nX while (!done) {\nX\t/* issue the prompt */\nX\tprintf(\"%s\\t\", (count>0) ? \"\" : leader);\nX\tfflush(stdout);\nX\nX\t/* get the line */\nX\tif (get_line(buf, BUFSIZ, MAX_COL-9) <= 0) {\nX\t printf(\"\\nline too long, please re-enter:\\n\\t\");\nX\t continue;\nX\t}\nX\nX\t/* note if '.' was read */\nX\tif (strcmp(buf, \".\\n\") == 0) {\nX\t done = TRUE;\nX\t}\nX\nX\t/* write line if we read something */\nX\tif (!done) {\nX\t fprintf(output, \"%s\\t%s\", (count++>0) ? \"\" : leader, buf);\nX\t check_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\t}\nX }\nX\nX /* if no lines read, at least output something */\nX if (count <= 0) {\nX\tfprintf(output, \"%s\\t.\\n\", leader);\nX\tcheck_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX }\nX return;\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * col_len - determine the highest that a string would reach\nX *\nX * Given a string, this routine returns that a string would reach\nX * if the string were printed at column 1. Tab stops are assumed\nX * to start at 9, 17, 25, 33, ...\nX */\nXint\nXcol_len(string)\nX char *string;\t\t/* the string to examine */\nX{\nX int col;\t/* current column */\nX char *p;\t/* current char */\nX\nX /* scan the string */\nX for (col=0, p=string; *p != '\\0' && *p != '\\n'; ++p) {\nX\t/* note the column shift */\nX\tcol = (*p=='\\t') ? 1+((col+8)/8*8) : col+1;\nX }\nX if (*p == '\\n') {\nX\t--col;\nX }\nX\nX /* return the highest column */\nX return col;\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * check_io - check for EOF or I/O error on a stream\nX *\nX * Does not return if EOF or I/O error.\nX */\nXvoid\nXcheck_io(stream, name, eof_ok)\nX FILE *stream;\t\t/* the stream to check */\nX char *name;\t\t\t/* the name of this stream */\nX int eof_ok;\t\t\t/* EOF_OK or EOF_NOT_OK */\nX{\nX /* test for I/O error */\nX if (ferror(stream)) {\nX\tfprintf(stderr, \"%s: error on %s: \", program, name);\nX\tperror(\"\");\nX\texit(1);\nX\nX /* test for EOF */\nX } else if (eof_ok == EOF_NOT_OK && feof(stream)) {\nX\tfprintf(stderr, \"%s: EOF on %s\\n\", program, name);\nX\texit(1);\nX }\nX return;\nX}\nX\nX/*\nX * uuencode - uuencode a file\nX *\nX * Perform the uuencoding process identical to the process performed\nX * by the uuencode(1) utility.\nX *\nX * This routine implements the algorithm described in the uuencode(5)\nX * 4.3BSD Reno man page.\nX */\nXvoid\nXuuencode(output, oname, infile, iname, umode, uname)\nX FILE *output;\t\t/* output file stream */\nX char *oname;\t\t/* output filename */\nX FILE *infile;\t\t/* input file stream */\nX char *iname;\t\t/* input filename */\nX int umode;\t\t\t/* the mode to put on the uuencode file */\nX char *uname;\t\t/* name to put on the uuencode file */\nX{\nX char buf[UUENCODE_LEN+1];\t/* the uuencode buffer */\nX int read_len;\t\t/* actual number of chars read */\nX int val;\t\t\t/* 6 bit chunk from buf */\nX char filler='\\0';\t\t/* filler uuencode pad text */\nX char *p;\nX\nX /*\nX * output the initial uuencode header\nX */\nX fprintf(output, \"begin %o %s\\n\", umode, uname);\nX check_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX /*\nX * clear out the input buffer\nX */\nX for (p=buf; p < &buf[sizeof(buf)/sizeof(buf[0])]; ++p) {\nX\t*p = '\\0';\nX }\nX\nX /*\nX * We will process UUENCODE_LEN chars at a time, forming\nX * a single output line each time.\nX */\nX while ((read_len=fread(buf,sizeof(buf[0]),UUENCODE_LEN,infile)) > 0) {\nX\nX\t/*\nX\t * the first character is the length character\nX\t */\nX\tfputc(UUENCODE(read_len), output);\nX\tcheck_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX\t/*\nX\t * We will convert 24 bits at a time. Thus we will convert\nX\t * 3 sets of 8 bits into 4 sets of uuencoded 6 bits.\nX\t */\nX\tfor (p=buf; read_len>0; read_len-=3, p+=3) {\nX\nX\t /* bits 0 to 5 */\nX\t val = (p[0]>>2)&0x3f;\nX\t fputc(UUENCODE(val), output);\nX\t check_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX\t /* bits 6 to 11 */\nX\t val = ((p[0]<<4)&0x30) | ((p[1]>>4)&0x0f);\nX\t fputc(UUENCODE(val), output);\nX\t check_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX\t /* bits 12 to 17 */\nX\t val = ((p[1]<<2)&0x3c) | ((p[2]>>6)&0x03);\nX\t fputc(UUENCODE(val), output);\nX\t check_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX\t /* bits 18 to 23 */\nX\t val = p[2]&0x3f;\nX\t fputc(UUENCODE(val), output);\nX\t check_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\t}\nX\nX\t/* end of UUENCODE_LEN line */\nX\tfputc('\\n', output);\nX\tcheck_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX\nX\t/*\nX\t * clear out the input buffer (don't depend on bzero() or memset())\nX\t */\nX\tfor (p=buf; p < &buf[sizeof(buf)/sizeof(buf[0])]; ++p) {\nX\t *p = '\\0';\nX\t}\nX }\nX\nX /* check the last read on the input file */\nX check_io(infile, iname, EOF_OK);\nX\nX /* write end of uuencode file */\nX fprintf(output, \"%c\\nend\\n\", UUENCODE(filler));\nX check_io(output, oname, EOF_NOT_OK);\nX}\nSHAR_EOF\nchmod 0444 mkentry.c ||\necho \"restore of mkentry.c failed\"\nset `wc -c mkentry.c`;Wc_c=$1\nif test \"$Wc_c\" != \"34482\"; then\n\techo original size 34482, current size $Wc_c\nfi\n# ============= obfuscate.info ==============\necho \"x - extracting obfuscate.info (Text)\"\nsed 's/^X//' << 'SHAR_EOF' > obfuscate.info &&\nX1993 Obfuscated contest information\nX\nXCopyright (c) Landon Curt Noll & Larry Bassel, 1993.\nXAll Rights Reserved. Permission for personal, education or non-profit use is\nXgranted provided this this copyright and notice are included in its entirety\nXand remains unaltered. All other uses must receive prior permission in writing\nXfrom both Landon Curt Noll and Larry Bassel.\nX\nXThe International Obfuscated C Code Contest (IOCCC), in the sprit of\nXco-operation, is willing mention other programming contents, as space\nXpermits.\nX\nXHow to have your contest included in this file:\nX\nX If you wish the IOCCC judges to include your contest in this file,\nX send a request to:\nX\nX\tjudges@toad.com\nX\nX We request that contest descriptions be limited to 50 lines and to\nX not exceed 2500 bytes. We typically request that your contest\nX include a current description of the IOCCC.\nX\nX In order to be included in this file for given year, we must\nX receive a current description no EARLIER than Jan 1 00:00:00 UTC and\nX no LATER than Feb 15 00:00:00 UTC. Agreement to publish your\nX contest must also be obtained prior to Feb 15. Annual contests\nX that fail to submit a new entry will be dropped from this file.\nX\nXOfficial Disclaimer: (pardon the officialese)\nX\nX The contents noted below, other than the IOCCC, are not affiliated\nX with the IOCCC, nor are they endorsed by the IOCCC. We reserve the\nX right to refuse to print information about a given contest.\nX\nX The information below was provided by the particular contest\nX organizer(s) and printed by permission. Please contact the\nX contest organizer(s) directly regarding their contents.\nX\nXWith that official notice given, we present for your ENJOYMENT, the following\nXinformation about contents:\nX\nX---------------------------------------------------------------------------\nX\nX 10th International Obfuscated C Contest\nX\nX\t\"The original obfuscated contest\"\nX\nX Obfuscate: tr.v. -cated, -cating, -cates. 1. a. To render obscure.\nX b. To darken. 2. To confuse: Their emotions obfuscated\nX\t\ttheir judgment. [LLat. obfuscare, to darken : ob(intensive) +\nX Lat. fuscare, to darken < fuscus, dark.] -obfuscation n.\nX obfuscatory adj.\nX\nX GOALS OF THE CONTEST:\nX\nX * To write the most Obscure/Obfuscated C program under the rules below.\nX * To show the importance of programming style, in an ironic way.\nX * To stress C compilers with unusual code.\nX * To illustrate some of the subtleties of the C language.\nX * To provide a safe forum for poor C code. :-)\nX\nX The IOCCC is the grandfather of USENET programming contests. Since\nX 1984, this contest demonstrated that a program that simply works\nX correctly is not sufficient. The IOCCC has also done much to add\nX the arcane word 'obfuscated' back into the English language.\nX (see \"The New Hacker's Dictionary\" by Eric Raymond)\nX\nX You are strongly encouraged to read the new contest rules before\nX sending any entries. The rules, and sometimes the contest Email\nX address itself, change over time. A valid entry one year may\nX be rejected in a later year due to changes in the rules. The typical\nX start date for contests is in early March. Contest rules are normally not\nX finalized and posted until the beginning of the contest. The typical\nX closing date for contests are in early May.\nX\nX The rules and the guidelines may (and often do) change from year to\nX year. You should be sure you have the current rules and guidelines\nX prior to submitting entries. To obtain them, send Email to the address\nX above and use the subject 'send rules'.\nX\nX One may obtain winners of previous contests (1984 to date), via ftp from:\nX\nX\thost: ftp.uu.net\t(192.48.96.9)\nX\tuser: anonymous\nX\tpass: yourname@yourhost\nX\tdir: ~/pub/ioccc\nX\nX As a last resort, previous winners may be obtained by sending Email\nX to the above address. Please use the subject 'send YEAR winners',\nX where YEAR is a single 4 digit year, a year range, or 'all'.\nX\nX---------------------------------------------------------------------------\nX\nX 0th International Obfuscated Perl Contest\nX\tBy: Landon Noll & Larry Wall\nX\nX This content is being planned. Someday when Landon & Larry are not too\nX busy, they will actually get around to posting the first set of rules!\nX\nX\t\t but other existing projects got in the way. Hopefully\nX\t\t something will be developed after Nov 1993.\"\nX\nX---------------------------------------------------------------------------\nX\nX 2nd International obFUsCaTeD POsTsCripT Contest\nX Jonathan Monsarrat (jgm@cs.brown.edu)\nX Alena Lacova (alena@nikhef.nl)\nX\nX A contest of programming skills and knowledge, exclusively for the\nX PostScript programming language. Its purpose:\nX\nX * To spread knowledge of PostScript and its details.\nX * To applaud those with the best tricks.\nX * To prove that humans can beat those damnable machine generators at\nX their own game by writing the most obscure and mysterious PostScript\nX programs ever.\nX\nX Winners will receive the fame and attention that goes with having their\nX program entry posted as a winner to programmers world-wide.\nX\nX The 1993 contest rules and results are available by ftp as\nX ``wilma.cs.brown.edu:pub/postscript/obfuscated*.shar'', or individually\nX in the obfuscated directory. The judges will post the 1994 rules\nX in November to comp.lang.postscript on Usenet, and other places.\nX Send questions to jgm@cs.brown.edu.\nX\nX Categories include: Best Obfuscated PostScript, Best Artwork,\nX Most Compact, Best Interactive Program, Most Useful, and\nX anything so unusual and creative that it deserves an award.\nX\nX The judges will choose the winners of each category.\nX\nX Alena Lacova is a system administrator at NIKHEF (Institute for High\nX Energy and Nuclear Physics) in the Netherlands. She is the author of\nX The PostScript Chaos Programs, which draw Julia sets, Mandelbrot sets\nX and other kinds of fractal functions.\nX\nX Jonathan Monsarrat is a graduate student from MIT and Brown University\nX in the U.S.A. He is the FAQ maintainer for the Usenet newsgroup\nX comp.lang.postscript and the author of The PostScript Zone and LameTeX.\nX .\nX\nSHAR_EOF\nchmod 0444 obfuscate.info ||\necho \"restore of obfuscate.info failed\"\nset `wc -c obfuscate.info`;Wc_c=$1\nif test \"$Wc_c\" != \"6418\"; then\n\techo original size 6418, current size $Wc_c\nfi\nexit 0", "\nThis effect disappears if you clean your apparatus after you kirlianed\nthe whole leaf and before kirlianing the leaf part.\n", ": >Atoms are not objective. They aren't even real. What scientists call\n: >an atom is nothing more than a mathematical model that describes \n: >certain physical, observable properties of our surroundings. All\n: >of which is subjective. \n: >\n: >-jim halat\n\n: This deserves framing. It really does. \"[Atoms] aren't even real.\"\n\n: Tell me then, those atoms we have seen with electron microscopes are\n: atoms now, so what are they? Figments of our imaginations? The\n: evidence that atoms are real is overwhelming, but I won't bother with\n: most evidence at the moment.\n\nYou would have us believe that what the eye perceives as images are\nactaully there - as perceived? This may be interesting. I thought\nthat an electron microscope was used because no wavelength of \"light\"\ncan illuminate any \"object\" of atomic scale. If this image is to have\nuseful resolution, wouldn't the illuminating sources wavelength have\nto be several orders of magnitude less than size of thing observed?\n\nIf an atom is a \"probablity cloud\", lower resolutions would give the\nappearance of solidity, but it seems fairly certain that an atom is\nnot an object is any conventional sense. Obviously I am not a\nphysicist, but the question does have ramification of a philosophic\nnature. Anyway, just a stray thought, carry on ...", "\n\n\n\n\n\nSigh. You're absolutely right. We have no political power whatsoever. \nTherefore, we should be oppressed and ignored and denigrated, right? I\ncertainly hope you don't have an SO, sir, because if she heard how\ndisparaging you are towards political minorities, and if she had any shred\nof self-respect, she'd be out the door.\n\n\n\nDon't count on it, sweetheart.\n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nCertainly not. Most major universities wouldn't touch views that display\nthe brainpower and the perspective of a mayfly with a ten-foot pole.\n\nDrewcifer\n\nP.S. Incidentally, I think even mayflies could come up with more\nenlightenment than the above bullshit. Evolve a bit, will you?", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nYou should be aware that the US Army was called to \"fight\"\n(and did) WW I veterans (bonus marchers) who marched on\nDC demanding bonuses they were promised for service.\nBecaues of the depression, they wanted them early.", "\n Yes, Mary is fully human. However, that does not imply that she was\njust as subject to sin as we are. Catholic doctrine says that man's\nnature is good (Gen 1:31), but is damaged by Original Sin (Rom 5:12-16).\nIn that case, being undamaged by Original Sin, Mary is more fully human\nthan any of the rest of us.\n\n You ask why God cannot \"repeat the miracle\" of Mary's preservation\nfrom Original Sin. A better way to phrase it would be \"why _did_ He\nnot\" do it that way, but you misunderstand how Mary's salvation was\nobtained. Like ours, the Blessed Virgin Mary's salvation was obtained\nthrough the merits of the Sacrifice of Christ on the Cross. However, as\nGod is not bound by time, which is His creation, God is free to apply\nHis Sacrifice to anyone at any time, even if that person lived before\nChrist came to Earth, from our time-bound perspective. Therefore,\nChrist's Death and Resurrection still served a necessary purpose, and\nwere necessary even for Mary's salvation.", "\n[JLE] Q: How many occupying israeli soldiers (terrorists) does it\n[JLE] take to kill a 5 year old native child?\n[JLE] A: Four\n[JLE] Two fasten his arms, one shoots in the face,\n[JLE] and one writes up a false report.\n\nA couple of months ago JLE wrote a terrible C program (it would never have \npassed compilation). This is one describes JLE the Great.\n\n---- 8< Cut Here and save to jle.c ----------- >8 ----------\n\n#include \n#include \n\n#define\tLOSER\t\t0x01\n#define\tCHILDISH\t0x01\n#define\tUNHUMORISTIC\t0x01\n#define VULGAR\t\t0x01\n#define MOSSAD_AGENT\t0x01\n\n#define J_L_E\t\tLOSER | CHILDISH | UNHUMORISTIC | VULGAR | MOSSAD_AGENT\n\nstatic void\nabort()\n{\n\tprintf(\"Even if she wanted, JLE's mother couldn't abort this program\");\n\tprintf(\"\\n\\n\\n\\n\");\n}\n\nvoid\nmain()\n{\n\tsignal(SIGINT,abort);\n\tprintf(\"This program does not help Jewish-Arab relations :-( \\n\");\n\n\tprintf(\"Hit ^C to abort \\n\");\n\n/* Infinite loop, JLE never comes out of his world \t*/\n\n\twhile(J_L_E);\n}\n\n---- 8< Cut Here ----------- >8 ----------\n\n\nTo compile this \"wonderfool\" program on a unix machine try.\ncc -o jle jle.c\nor \nmake jle\n\nthen type jle at your prompt.\n\nI tried it, it works great ...\n\n\nTsiel", "\n\n\n Well the monitor is consistently the largest power drain on your\nelectric bill when you are looking at your computer set-up, especially\nif you have a large (16\" or greater) color monitor. Generally what I do\nis leave my Mac on all the time, except for the occasional resart or\nsyetem crash, but I turn my monitor off each night before I leave my\noffice. I also turn off After Dark when I do this, since there is no\nreason to have the screen saver running when there is no picture being\ndisplyed on the monitor's tube.\n\n\n Really? What makes you think this? The Q700 file server in my office\nhas been on for the last 2 months, straight, and it hasn't had any\nproblems. (Note: I also keep the monitor for the file server turned off\nwhen I'm not actually working on the server itself.)", "\nWhether a scientific idea comes while one is staring out the window, or\ndreaming, or having a fantasy, or watching an apple fall (Newton), or\nsitting in a bath (Archimedes) ... it is ultimately the result of a lot of\nintense scientific thinking done beforehand. Letting one's mind roam\nfreely and giving rein to one's intuition can be a useful way of coming\nup with new ideas, but only when one has done a lot of rational analysis\nof the problem first. \n\nScientific intuition is not something one is born with. It is something\nthat one learns. Maybe we don't understand completely how it is learned,\nbut training in systematic scientific thinking is certainly one of the \nkey elements in developing it. \n\nInformal exploration is also often an important element in finding new\nscientific ideas. One thinks, for instance, of Darwin's naturalistic\nstudies in the Galapagos islands, which led him to the ideas for the \ntheory of evolution. \n\nThis is why I am offended by a definition of science that emphasizes\nempirical verification and does not recognize thinking and informal\nexploration as important scientific work. I agree that mere speculation\ndoes not deserve to be called science. I also think that mere empirical\nstudies not directed by good scientific thinking are at best a very\npoor kind of science. \n\n\nI don't think that science should be defined in a way that some of the\nactivities that lead to really important science --- namely thinking and\ninformal exploration --- are not recognized as scientific work. \n\n--\nIn the arguments between behaviorists and cognitivists, psychology seems \nless like a science than a collection of competing religious sects. ", "\nHumans have \"gone somewhat beyond\" what, exactly? In one thread\nyou're telling us that natural morality is what animals do to\nsurvive, and in this thread you are claiming that an omniscient\nbeing can \"definitely\" say what is right and what is wrong. So\nwhat does this omniscient being use for a criterion? The long-\nterm survival of the human species, or what?\n\nHow does omniscient map into \"definitely\" being able to assign\n\"right\" and \"wrong\" to actions?\n\n\nWell, your \"original premises\" have a habit of changing over time,\nso perhaps you'd like to review it for us, and tell us what the\ndifference is between an omniscient being be able to assign \"right\"\nand \"wrong\" to actions, and telling us the result, is. \n\n\nI'm talking about the morality introduced by you, which was going to\nbe implemented by this omniscient being that can \"definitely\" assign\n\"right\" and \"wrong\" to actions.\n\nYou tell us what type of morality that is.", "From article <1r492jINN5fo@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu>, by nomad@ecst.csuchico.edu (Michael Larish):\n\nI take it that when something happens that is wrong it's okay if\na bunch of people say it is? For instance, if some people go on a\nmurderous rampage and lynch some blacks and then a poll is taken which\nshows that the majority of people think that this is acceptable then\ndoes this mean that what these people have done isn't bad? This is an\nexample of mob rule not a democracy---a democracy in which people's\nrights are protected. I hope that I've made myself clear on this.\n\n\nFine...you have the right to hold any opinion that you want to. But,\nlet me ask you this: are you outraged over this tragedy? I hope\nthat you are, your opinions of David Koresh and his followers not\nwithstanding. I know I am.\n\n\nWhy? I'd be interested in hearing your reasons.\n\n\n\nScott Kennedy, Brewer and Patriot\n\nBefore: \"David Koresh is a cheap thug who interprets\n the Bible through the barrel of a gun...\" --ATF spokesman\nAfter: \"[The ATF] is a cheap thug who interprets\n [the Constitution] through the barrel of a gun...\" --Me", "\n\n\n\t\t\t ^^^^^^^^^\n\nhuh? it might be interesting. he is relating the story as I have heard\nit, btw.\n\n\n\n\nhuh? care to back that up?", "\n\n > I'm wondering if I can tote my American touch tone phone around with me\n > to Sweden and Germany. It's DC powered, and I can buy a special adapter\n > for that in Europe. The question is if the general electronics work\n > the same. I can buy a different wall plug and refit it (I'm sure I'd\n > have to), but would that do the trick?\n\n Two things to watch for:\n In Germany (and I think the same holds for Sweden) only some\n of the connections can handle tone dialing, so make sure the\n phone can be set to pulse dialing.\n In Sweden, the '0' is the first digit and all other digits\n are pushed \"down\" by one position; this makes dialing (and\n in the process converting numbers) an interesting task.\n Otherwise, it is technically no problem to connect a foreign\n phone to either the German or Swedish phone system.\n OTOH neither you nor I would ever try that, as it is of course\n illegal.\n\nAs the phone uses DTMF dialing, which by some magic all telecom\noperators seems to have agreed on, this is a complete non-issue.\n\nI don't think there are any switches in Sweden that can't handle DTMF\ndialing. Most switches are now digital and thoses that aren't have\nbeen retrofitted with \"magic fingers\" that converts from DTMF to pulse\ndialing.\n\nThomas", "\nProbably keep quiet and take it, lest they get their kneecaps busted.", "\nEthics deal with individuals. Morals deal with groups.\n\n\nPlease describe these \"number of ways\" in detail. Then explain any\ncontradictions that may arise.\n\n\nThe sentence, \"Yes, it's possible, but it is difficult.\" Humans survived\n\"in the wild\" for hundreds of thousands of years.\n\n\nAnswer the question, Keith. Is homosexuality detrimental to the survival\nof the species?", "\nI disagree. People marry each other. When they commit fully to each\nother as life partners, they are married. The ceremony may assist in\nemphasizing the depth of such a commitment, but is of itself nothing.\nGod knows our hearts. He knows when two have committed themselves to\nbe one, he knows the fears and delusions we have that keep us from fully\ngiving ourselves to another. The way I see it, you'd have to be living\ntogether in a marriage for somewhere between 10 and 100 years before anyone\nknew if a marriage really existed, but God knows. I don't think God keeps\na scorebook.", "\nUtopia is a myth (although we can do a lot better than what we have today).\nBut I think that you must pitch Libertarianism as a progressive agenda\n(ie You can do better under our style of system).\n\n\nI'm flattered by your invitation, but I'm afraid you have the wrong person.\nAlthough I completely agree with your civil liberties agenda, I'm not \nin support of your economic agenda. What I DO like about the Libertarian\nparty is that you guys are so good at shaking up the tired ideas of the\npast. I encourage you guys to continue your crusade, but I'm afraid I\ncan't ride along. \n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\"Nothing is as inevitable as a mistake whose time has Garrett Johnson\n come.\" --Tussman Garrett@Ingres.com\n\"The probability of someone watching you is proportional\nto the stupidity of your action.\" - Unknown", "\nMaybe I'm a little tired but I can't seem to follow the logic here. If \nwhatever is held true on earth is held true in heaven how is it that a priest\n(RC only apparently) is required. \n\nIn fact if I read the next verse correctly (Matthew 18:19) I understand that\nfor a marriage to take place only two are required to agree on earth touching\none thing and it shall be done.\n\nTodd\n\n", "I'm afraid I was not able to find the GIFs... is the list \nupdated weekly, perhaps, or am I just missing something?", "\nDo you mean that MSW3.1 is objectively inferior in _some_ respects (which\nis trivially true), that it is objectively inferior in _all_ respecets\n(which is trivially false) or do you mean something else? What criteria\nhave you chosen for your objective assesment? Are you sure that these\ncriteria are themselves objective?\n", "\n\nSince I repost this message again for the second time, I hope to hear from\nsome folks on this topic. Please reply.\n\nRegards,", "\nWell, that explains some things; I posted on soc.religion.islam\nwith an attached quote by Bobby to the effect that all atheists\nare lying evil scum, and asked if it was a commonly-held idea\namong muslims. I got no response. Asking about the unknown,\nI guess...\n\nKarl\n -----------------------------------------------------------------------------", "To the media, \"religion\" and \"cult\" have about the same relative\nconnotations as \"government\" and \"terrorist group\".\n", "\nOr perhaps it's because they think that all governmental bodies should be in\nthe business of suppressing all beliefs other than their own, or else they're\nsome sort of Satanic Humanist Conspiracy.\n\nIt's the old \"if you're not for us you're against us\" bit.", "\nNope, Mr. Myers has found the bad mistake and posted a correction, thank God.\n\n\nWho's acting?\n", "\nIf you really want to trigger the scanners then move the keywords\nabove the -- signature start bit... You'll only trip them once in\na sig (plus every so often it will flag one for human intervention\njust to be sure)\n\nI might not be being serious.\n", "\nWasn't the beef with the English over \"taxation WITHOUT REPRESENTATION\",\nnot taxation itself? \n\nFrom my admittedly dim recollection of US history, most of the problems \nwe Americans have had with taxes have been with unfair/unjust taxation\nschemes, not with taxes themselves. It's pretty hard to run a government\nwithout any means of support.\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\n...Dale Cook \"Any town having more churches than bars has a serious\n social problem.\" ---Edward Abbey\nThe opinions are mine only (i.e., they are NOT my employer's)", " jamesdon@infoserv.com (James A. Donald) writes...\n\nHello? What the Sloan decision means is that the tax protestors \nwere wrong.\n\n\nDemonstrate, please! The rules of procedure make this very \nunlikely.\n\n\nFOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES ONLY\n\nWhich makes it legally unsound. If I were representing Mr. Teel, \nI'd try a procedural approach if I could find one, or recommend \nhe plea-bargain. He's setting himself up to be in hot water.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\tDaniel Reitman\n\nHOW NOT TO WRITE A DEED\n\nOne case involved the construction of a conveyance to grantees \"jointly, as \ntenants in common, with equal rights and interest in said land, and to the \nsurvivor thereof, in fee simple. . . . To Have and to Hold the same unto the \nsaid parties hereto, equally, jointly, as tenants in common, with equal rights \nand interest for the period or term of their lives, and to the survivor thereof \nat the death of the other.\"", "Fellow netters,\n\nI'm in the market for a hand scanner. However, I don't know anyone who has\none. I have my eye on two choices.\n\nDexxa: This scanner is available at Wal-Mart for $90. It includes GrayWorks\nsoftware and provides 400 dpi and 32 grayscales (I think). The OCR software\nCatchword is available through mail-order for about $90 also.\n\nMustek: (Gray Artist for Windows) This scanner offers 256 grayscales\n(according to Cad & Graphics) and 800 dpi. It is available for $169\nmail-order and comes with Perceive OCR and Picture Publisher LE.\n\nI am also looking at a Genius hand scanner (B105) from Cad & Graphics. It\nis basically the same as the Mustek scanner except for the resolution (400\ndpi) and price ($149). \n\nBasically, I would like recommendations on which to buy. I have heard that\nLogitech makes the best and manufactures Dexxa scanners. But which one is the\nbest buy? Would 800 dpi really be helpful (output would be no better than HP\nLaserJet III or Canon BJ-200 - 300x300 to 360x360)? I am leaning toward the\nMustek because it offers the most features and is in the middle in terms of\nprices. Which should I buy?\n\nIf you have a hand scanner, please let me know whether or not you would\nrecommend it. Also, if you know of another scanner within the price range\n(under $225) that would be a better deal, please E-Mail me. Any and all help\nwould be greatly appreciated.", "New in this version: challenge #5, plus an addendum summarizing\nCharley's responses to-date..\n-----------------------------------------\n\n*** This is a posting made periodically in an attempt to encourage\n*** Charley Wingate to address direct challenges to his evidently \n*** specious claims. I'll continue to re-post periodically until\n*** he answers them, publicly indicates that he won't answer them,\n*** stops posting to alt.atheism, the alt.atheism community tells\n*** me to stop, or I get totally bored. I apologize for the \n*** somewhat juvenile nature of this approach, but I'm at a loss\n*** to figure out another way to crack his intransigence and \n*** seeming intellectual dishonesty.\n***\n*** This is re-post #3.\n\n\nCharley,\n\nI can't help but notice that you have still failed to provide answers\nto substantive questions that have been raised in response to your\nprevious posts. I submit that you don't answer them because you\ncannot answer them without running afoul of your own logic, and I once\nagain challenge you to prove me wrong. To make the task as easy for\nyou as possible, I'll present concise re-statements of some of the\nquestions that you have failed to answer, in the hope that you may\naddress them one at a time for all to see.\n\nShould you fail to answer again within a reasonable time period, I\nwill re-post this article, with suitable additions and deletions, at\nsuch time that I notice a post by you on another topic. I will repeat\nthis procedure until you either address the outstanding challenges or\nyou cease to post to this newsgroup.\n\nI would like to apologize in advance if you have answered any of these\nquestions previously and your answer missed my notice. If you can be\nkind enough to re-post or e-mail such articles, I will be only too\npleased to publicly rescind the challenge in question, and remove it\nfrom this list.\n\nNow, to the questions...\n\n1. After claiming that all atheists fit into neat psychological\npatterns that you proposed, then semi-retracting that claim by stating\nthat you weren't referring to *all* atheists, I asked you to name some\natheists who you feel don't fit your patterns, to show that you indeed\nwere not referring to all atheists that you are aware of. You failed\nto do so. Please do so now.\n\nQuestion: Can you name any a.a posters who do not fit into your\nstereotype?\n\nHere is the context for the question:\n\n\n\n2. You have taken umbrage to statements to the effect that \"senses and\nreason are all we have to go by\", and when pressed, you have implied\nthat we have an alternative called revelation. I have repeatedly\nasked you to explain what revelation is and how one can both\nexperience and interpret revelation without doing so via our senses\nand reason. You failed to do so. Please do so now.\n\nQuestion: Can you explain what is revelation and how one can\nexperience and interpret it without using senses and inherent\nreasoning?\n\nHere is the context for the question:\n\n\n\nthen later...\n\n\nthen later...\n\n\nthen later...\n\n\n\n3. You have stated that all claims to dispassionate analysis made by\na.a posters are unverifiable and fantastical. I asked you to identify\none such claim that I have made. You have failed to do so. Please do\nso now.\n\nQuestion: Have I made any claims at all that are unverifiable and\nfantastical? If so, please repeat them.\n\nHere is the context for the question:\n\n\n\nthen later...\n\n\n\n4. First you dismissed claims by atheists that they became atheists as\na result of reason, then later you stated that if one accepted the\n\"axioms\" of reason that one couldn't help but become atheist. I asked\nyou to explain the contradiction. Your only response was a statement\nthat the question was incoherent, an opinion not shared by others that\nI have asked, be they atheist or theist. You have failed to answer\nthe question. Please do so now.\n\nQuestion: Do you retract your claim that a.a posters have not become\natheists as a result of reason, despite their testimony to that\neffect? If you don't retract that claim, do you retract the\nsubsequent claim that acceptance of the axioms of reason inevitably\nresult in atheism?\n\nHere is the context for the question:\n\n[First quote]\n[Second quote]\n\n\n5. First, you claimed that you would (probably) not answer these\nChallenges because they contained too much in the way of \"included\ntext\" from previous posts. Later, you implied that you wouldn't\nrespond because I was putting words in your mouth. Please clarify\nthis seeming contradiction.\n\nQuestion: Do you prefer to respond to Challenges that include context\nfrom your own posts, or that I paraphrase your positions in order to\navoid \"included text\"?\n\nHere is the context for the question:\n\n\n\nthen later...\n\n\n\nAs usual, your responses are awaited with anticipation.\n\n--Dave Wood\n\n\np.s., For the record, below is a compilation of Charley's responses to\nthese challenges to date.\n\n3/18/93\n\n3/31/93 (#1)\n\n3/31/93 (#2)", "\n[bible verses ag./ used ag. homosexuality deleted]\n\n\nalso check out the episcopal church -- although by no means all\nepiscopalians are sympathetic to homosexual men and women, there\ncertainly is a fairly large percentage (in my experience) who are. i\nam good friends with an episcopalian minister who is ordained and\nliving in a monogamous homosexual relationship. this in no way\ndiminishes his ability to minister -- in fact he has a very\nsignificant ministry with the gay and lesbian association of his\ncommunity, as well as a very significant aids ministry.\n\nmy uncle is gay and when i found this out i had a good long think\nabout what the bible has to say about this and what i feel God thinks\nabout this. obviously my conclusions may be wrong; nonetheless they\nare my own and they feel right to me. i believe that the one\nimportant thing that those who wrote the old and new testament\npassages cited above did NOT know was that there is scientific\nevidence to support that homosexuality is at least partly _inherent_\nrather than completely learned. this means that to a certain extent\n-- or to a great extent -- homosexuals cannot choose how to feel about\nother people -- which is why reports of \"curing\" homosexuals always\nchill me and make me feel ill. please not that, although i can't cite\nsources where you can find this information, there is homosexual\nbehavior recorded among monkeys and other animals, which is in itself\nsuggestive that it is inherent rather than learned, or at least that\nthe word \"unnatural\" shouldn't really apply....\n\nplease remember that whatever you believe, gays and lesbians shoul not\nbe excluded from your love and acceptance. christ loved us all, and\nwe ALL sin. and he himself never said anything against homosexuals --\nrather it is paul (who also came out with such wonderful wisdom as\n\"women shouldn't speak in church\" and \"women should keep their heads\ncovered in church\" -- not exact quotations as i don't have my bible\nhandy) who says these things. i have a tendency to take some of the\nthings paul says with a grain of salt....\n\nwell, that's all i'll say for now.\n\n\nvera noyes", " \nHmmm, this gave me an interesting idea. How about this argument:\n\n1) Second Amendment gives us the right to keep and bear arms.\n\n2) Strong cryptography is \"arms\", according to the U.S. government (that's\n why it's so hard to export).\n\nTherefore, we have a constituitional right to strong cryptography! \nQ.E.D.\n\nHowever, it's likely to be as hard or harder to exercise this right as it\nis getting to exercise the other rights that the government is slowly\nrestricting. Maybe the NRA _would_ be the best existing organization?\n(Although I think a new one might be better, but perhaps would take too long\nto start up. I would certainly join.)", "\nI disagree with these. What society thinks should be irrelevant. What the\nindividual decides is all that is important.\n\n\nI think this is fairly obvious\n\n\nGenerally by what they \"feel\" is right, which is the most idiotic policy I can\nthink of.\n\n\nBy thinking for ourselves.", "THE WHITE HOUSE\n\n\n Office of the Press Secretary\n\n \nFor Immediate Release April 15, 1993\n\n\n\n STATEMENT BY THE PRESS SECRETARY\n\n\n\n The President will travel to Pittsburgh on Saturday, April \n17 to talk about his job creation plan and its impact on the \nstate of Pennsylvania, where it would create as many as 3,818 \nfull time jobs and up to 21,240 summer jobs. He will make a \npublic address at Pittsburgh International Airport at 9:30 am. \n\n The President will leave Washington early Saturday morning \nand return that afternoon. A White House press charter will \ndepart Andrews Air Force Base at 7:30. Filing facilities will be \navailable in Pittsburgh.", " | \n | > Mary at that time appeared to a girl named Bernadette at \n | > Lourdes. She referred to herself as the Immaculate Conception.\n | > Since a nine year old would have no way of knowing about the \n | > doctrine, the apparition was deemed to be true and it sealed \n | > the case for the doctrine. \n |Bernadette was 14 years old when she had her visions, in 1858, \n |four years after the dogma had been officially proclaimed by the \n |Pope. \n | \n | Yours, \n | James Kiefer\n\nI forgot exactly what her age was but I remember clearly\nthat she was born in a family of poverty and she did not\nhave any education, whatsoever, at the age of the apparitions.\nShe suffered from asthma at that age and she and her family were\nliving in a prison cell of some sort.\n\nShe had to ask the 'Lady' several times in her apparitions about \nwhat her name was since her confessor priest asked her to do so. \nFor several instances, the priest did not get an answer since \nBernadette did not receive any. One time, after several apparitions\npassed, The Lady finally said, \"I am the Immaculate Conception\".\nSo, Bernadette, was so happy and repeated these words over and\nover in her mind so as not to forget it before she told the\npriest who was asking. So, when she told the priest, the\npriest was shocked and asked Bernadette, \"Do you know what\nyou are talking about?\". Bernadette did not know what exactly\nit meant but she was just too happy to have the answer for\nthe priest. The priest continued with, \"How did you remember\nthis if you do not know?\". Bernadette answered honestly that\nshe had to repeat it over and over in her mind while on her\nway to the priest...\n\nThe priest knew about the dogma being four years old then.\nBut Bernadette did not know and yet she had the answer which\nthe priest finally observed and took as proof of an authentic\npersonal revelation of Our Lady to Bernadette.\n\n(Note: This Lady of Lourdes shrine has a spring of water which\nour lady requested Bernadette to dig up herself with her\nbare hands in front of pilgrims. At the start little\nwater flowed but after several years there is more water \nflowing.)", "\nFred Rice answered this already in an early posting:\n\"The problem with your argument is that you do not _know_ who is a _real_\nbeliever and who may be \"faking it\". This is something known only by\nthe person him/herself (and God). Your assumption that anyone who\n_claims_ to be a \"believer\" _is_ a \"believer\" is not necessarily true.\"\n\nIn other words it seems that nobody could define who is a true and\nfalse Muslim. We are back to square one, Khomeini and Hussein are \nstill innocent and can't be defined as evil or good Islamic \nworshippers.\n\nCheers,\nKent\n", "\nIs this \"White House e-mail address\" really working yet? Someone\nposted such an address on CompuServe a few months ago, but apparently\nthe White House wasn't really set up to recive hundreds (thousands?)\nof messages a day to that account and didn't want people to use it\nyet. So is this MCI address something the people at the White House\nactually read, or is it another Craig Shergold story? I don't know --\nI'm just asking.\n\nUnless the people at the White House print and distribute this mail\nevery day, you may have better luck printing out a letter (on paper,\nthat flat white stuff all over my desk) and Snail-Mailing it to the\nWhite House. I imagine writing to your local representative and\nsenator wouldn't hurt either. Heck, why not write to Al Gore while\nyou're at it?\n\n\t\t\t\tgreg\t\n", "\nAutomatic revocation of your license for a year. I'm not sure it's the\n\"toughtest\" law around, but NC has absolutely no sense of humor with\nrespect to driving laws, anyway. I think they put you in jail and sell\nyour first child into slavery for passing a school bus...\n\nA bill breezed through the NC House to lower the intoxification level\nfrom .1 to .08. It faces stiff opposition in the Senate. Recently,\nthe Highway Patrol took a few of the opposition Senators out and gave\nthem some shots, and when they hit .07, put them on a course dodging\ncones. They failed, and will probably change their votes as a result.\n\nFor some bizarre reason, NC is the only state where the governer has no\nveto power over legislation coming out of the state Congress, so his\nopinion on the matter is moot.\n", "\nIt is also so easy to blame the West for their indiffernce to\nreal Bosnian suffering. How about the moslem world, about 1 billion?\nHow about them ha? What they are doing to stop this\nmassacre? Why the oil rich Arab states make the Bosnian crises \na national interest of the West, especially for Europeans? We all \nknow they can do it over night, don't we? Blaming West and asking \nwhy they don't put their life into danger seems to be the choice of \nmuslims too. I think who is sleeping is not the West. They are wide \nawake. They are trying to save the face. ", "I have ordered many times from Competition accesories and ussually\nget 2-3 day delivery. Once they had to backorder something, but they\nsent me a card to say it would be two weeks. Came in 10 days or so.\n\nAlways be satisfied, with CA and in life.", "Could the guy who wrote the article \"Why I am not Bertrand Russell\"\nresend me a copy?", "\n Gosh, Gregg. I'm pretty good a reading between the lines, but\n you've given me precious little to work with in this refutation.\n Could you maybe flesh it out just a bit? Or did I miss the full\n grandeur of it's content by virtue of my blinding atheism?\n\n\n\n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ \n\nBob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM \n\nThey said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,\nand sank Manhattan out at sea.", "\nSince the actual verdicts were not known by the authorities, it was\nsmart not to allow \"Friday night for fighting\" (sorry, Elton) and to\nseal them for this morning. Also, it allows for maximum daylight to\nwear down and frustrate any potential troublemakers, as well as give\nmore preparation time.\n\n\nAre you a local news intern? (-;\n\n\nActually, that was 8 PM 'cos it was shown live on our 11 PM news\nand cut into CNN's 11 O'clock Sports (sorry, but I didn't watch\nthe Devils-Islanders game! No SportsChannel ...).\n\n\nWe had cutovers to LA's KNBC on our WNBC, and I didn't recall this\ndetail. But I'll not comment further on that ...\n\n\nA net-contact in L.A. tells me that the alert will remain over this\nweekend, as some elements may find excuse over the not-guilty verdicts\non three of five charges (the aiding-and-abetting). Those acquittals\nseem to balance out the fact that Rodney King himself was not any kind\nof angel that night, speeding and fleeing et al. However ... Another\nconsideration is any street celebrations over the two convictions on\nthe excessive force charges (Koons for incompetance, and Powell for\noverreacting --- both guilty as heck even from the view of NYPD cops\ninterviewed) that might get out of hand. )-; Also, some elements\nmay take the acquittals as an excuse to challenge the cops (a dumb\nmove, obviously). And, Koreans are still scared and certain people\nare really mad over how they have armed themselves in the last year.\n\nA Commander from Nassau, Long Island was questioned about how his\npeople would have handled Rodney King, and he said \"We'd have let\nhim roll around in the dirt 'til he got tired, then handcuff him\".\n\ngld", "\n\n\t\t\t....................\n\n\nThis example is probably wrong. There is the case of one famous\nphysicist telling another that he was probably wrong. As I recall\nthe quote:\n\n\tYour ideas are crazy, to be sure. But they are not crazy\n\tenough to be right.\n\nThe typical screwball is only somewhat screwy.", "Read this through once or twice. Then replace \"prince\" with\n\"government\" or \"president\", as appropriate, and read it again. \n\n[From Chapter XX of _The Prince_, by N. Macchiavelli, as translated by\nDaniel Donno.]\n\n\tIn order to keep their lands secure, some princes have\ndisarmed their subjects; others have prompted division within the\ncities they have subjugated. Some have nurtured animosities against\nthemselves; others have sought to win the approval of those they\ninitially distrusted. Some have erected fortresses; others have\ndestroyed them. Now, although it is impossible to set down definite\njudgements on all of these measures without considering the particular\ncircumstances of the states where they may be employed, I shall\nnevertheless discuss them in such broad terms as the subject itself\nwill allow.\n\n\tTo begin with, there has never been a case of a new prince\ndisarming his subjects. Indeed, whenever he found them disarmed, he\nproceeded to arm them. For by arming your subjects, you make their\narms your own. Those among them who are suspicious become loyal,\nwhile those who are already loyal remain so, and from subjects they\nare transformed into partisans. Though you cannot arm them all,\nnonetheless you increase your safety among those you leave unarmed by\nextending privileges to those you arm. Your different treatment of\nthe two categories will make the latter feel obligated to you, while\nthe former will consider it proper thoat those who assume added duties\nand dangers should receive advantages. \n\n\tWhen you disarm your subjects, however, you offend them, by\nshowing that, either from cowardliness or from lack of faith, you\ndistrust them; and either conclusion will induce them to hate you.\nMoreover, since it is impossible for you to remain unarmed, you would\nhave to resort to mercenaries, whose limitations have already been\ndiscussed. Even if such troops were good, however, they could never be\ngood enough to defend you from powerful enemies, and doubtful\nsubjects. Therefore, as I have said, a new prince in a newly acquired\nstate has always taken measures to arm his subjects, and history is\nfull of examples proving that this is so.\n\n\tBut when a prince takes posession of a new state which he\nannexes as an addition to his original domain, then he must disarm all\nthe subjects of the new state except those who helped him to acquire\nit; and these, as time and occasion permit, he must seek to render\nsoft and weak. He must arrange matters in such a way that the arms of\nthe entire state will be in the hands of soldiers who are native to\nhis original domain.\n\n\t...", "\n\nGee, I think there are some real criminals (robbers, muderers, drug\naddicts) who appear to be fun loving caring people too. So what's\nyour point? Is it OK. just because the people are nice?\n", "\n[...]\n\n\nYou seem to be saying that a LIMITED government will provide MORE\nopportunities for private interests to use it to pursue their own\nagendas, and asking libertarians to prove that this will NOT happen.\nWhile I can't offer such a proof, it seems pretty damn plausible that\nif the government does not regulate a particular area, it cannot become\na tool of private interests to pursue their own agendas in that area.\nI rather suspect that it's the sort of government we have NOW that is\nmore likely to become such a tool, and that it IS such a tool in many\ninstances.\n\n\nI suspect that this is because \"improvement in the human condition\" as\nyou define it is not the primary goal of libertarianism, and would not\nbe the primary goal of a libertarian government. My impression of\nlibertarianism is that its primary goal is the elimination of\ngovernment coercion except in a very limited cases.\n-- \nIan Sutherland\nian@eecs.nwu.edu", "I see a parallel between what I will stupidly call the \"homosexual\" \nissue and the \"atheist\" issue. Please take no offense at these\ncomparisons.\n\nThe homosexual \"feels\" things that I admit I do not \"feel\". \nHe learns that these feelings are classified as homosexual feelings\nand learns of a model of sexuality that seems to apply to\nhis feelings, which he then can fit with his experiences.\nThat is, this model gives him a sense of understanding his\nsituation. Models that do not match up with what he knows he\nfeels will be discarded. However, one wonders if once accepting\nthe idea of his being gay and deciding what exactly that\nmeans he will analyze all his feelings and experiences based on \nthe definition he has already accepted, which of course validates\nhis model.\n\nIf that was hard to understand now listen to my parallel.\n\nThe Christian \"feels\" things that an atheist claims he does not\nfeel. The Christian accepts the Christian theology as the true\ndescription of what his feelings mean. Once accepting this\nmodel he interprets his experiences with regards to this model\nwhich of course validates his Christianity.\n\nAs a reminder, I am a Christian, a Catholic, I don't hate \nhomosexuals or atheists, but am just trying to understand\nthem. I only compare them because they are both so foreign\nto me. Am I as blind to the homosexual as the atheist seems\nblind to me? Or am I as prejudiced against atheistic denial of\nreligious experience as the homosexual is prejudiced against \nattempts by society to deny his sexuality?\n\nOr am I just out to lunch, again?", "\n\nWhich objective system are you talking about? What is its goal?\nAgain, which brand of morality are you talking about?", "\n\n\nOnly because you are apparently easy to fool. In other words, your\nremark is obviously from someone who wouldn't know the difference.\n\n-- \n\"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live\n in the real world.\" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden", "[ deleted ]\n[ deleted ]\n\n Your information on this topic is very much out of date. Quantum Electro-\ndynamics (QED - which considers light to be particles) has been experimentally\nverified to about 14 decimal digits of precision under ALL tested conditions.\nI'm afraid that this case, at least in the physics community, has been decided.\nLaymen should consult \"QED - The Strange Theory of Light and Matter\" by Richard\nP. Feynman and for the more technically minded there's \"The Feynman Lectures on\nPhysics\" by Feynman, Leighton and Sands (an excellent 3 volumes). Case closed.\n", "Please note that my above comment was not intended as a flame of Ken's\ncall for Congressional leadership to conduct a proper investigation.\nIt was merely to call attention to the hazard of having Specter involved.\nIf anyone took it that way, I apologize.", "\nI don't think anyone really cares about the solid structure of his\nsermon. It's the deaths he's responsible for that concern most people.\n\n\nYou've made me curious. What does this say about me?\n\n\nCharles Manson used revelation as well. Do we see a pattern here?\nI wonder of Koresh liked the Beatles?\n\n\t[long list of Biblical references which\n\t impressed me tremendously but were deleted\n\t in the interests of common sense.]\n\nKoresh was a nut, okay? Just because he found ways for the Bible\nto backup his rantings does not make him any less of a kook.\n\n\nI'll type this very slowly so that you can understand. He either set\nthe fire himself or told his followers to do so. Don't make him out to\nbe a martyr. He did not \"get killed\", he killed himself.\n\n\nThe evil was inside the compound. All that \"thou shalt not kill\" stuff.\n", "Bill Vojak:\n\n BV>I read in the paper yestarday that Ted Turner wants to \"trim\" down\n BV>his media holdings and is putting CNN up for sale. The #1 potential\n BV>bidder? TIME/Warner of course. Sigh . . . . . Just what we need. :-(\n\n Maybe now's the time for us, the NRA, GOA, CCRTKBA, SAF, et al to band\n together and buy CNN as *our* voice. Wouldn't that be sumpin....broadcast\n the truth for a change and be able to air a favorable pro-gun item or two....\n---\n . OLX 2.2 . There is no way they can get over here! A. Maginot\n ", "Does anybody have an idea how to model a tunnel diode on SPICE?\nThank you.", "-> : \tAccording to a ``CNN Poll'' to key reason for Clinton's low\n-> : approval rating is people are angry about him not moving fast enough\n-> : on gays in the military. I just burst out laughing when I heard this;\n-> : what planet do these CNN people live on anyway?\n-> : --\n-> : Jason C. Austin\n-> : j.c.austin@larc.nasa.gov \n-> \n-> Dunno, man... that sounds pretty damned unlikely to me, too,\n-> although it's certainly one of the reasons I'm pissed off at him.\n-> Maybe the sample was taken entirely from my fellow memebers of the\n-> Cultural Elite?\n-> \n-> Jason, can you quote some of these poll questions?\n-> \n-> Thanks,\n-> Bill\n-> v\n\n\tI've never seen CNN give out the poll questions on the air.\nIf you sent them a letter asking for them, you might get them. Here's\nmy guess of how part of a session might look:\n\nQuestion: Do you approve of Clinton's performance?\nAnswer: No\nQuestions: Do you disapprove due to the gays in the military issue?\nAnswer: Yes\n\nConclusion: Clinton has a low approval rating because he's not moving\nfast enough on gays in the military.\n\n\n\tI think any group truly dedicated to reporting the news would\nnot use manufactured news like polls.", "\nI is a strong deterent to the teens that are executed. They won't do that\nagain! This policy cuts way down on repeat offenders.\n\nPlease do not flame me - I don't agree with capital punishment for teen's.\n\n\n\nThey are also unsupervised. With proper supervision, they would not be\nthrowing rocks. If parents cannot provide the minimal supervision needed\nto stop this activity, they should not be allowed to have children :-)\n\nNotice the smiley ;-) \n\n", "SOMEONE PLEASE BUY THESE BOOKS!!!!! I AM NOT ASKING MUCH!!!!!!\n\nJUST MAKE ME AN OFFER AND I WILL PROBABLY TAKE IT!!!!!\n\n\n* Writing good software in Fortran, Graham Smith. \n\n* The Holt Handbook by Kirszner & Mandell (copyright 1986) 720+ page writing guide. \n\n* General Chemistry Principles & Modern Applications, R. Petrucci, fourth\n edition. Big Book! Very good condition!\n\n* Solutions manual for Chemistry book. Paperback.\n\n* Study guide for Chemistry book. Paperback.\n\n\nSend me your offers via email at 02106@chopin.udel.edu\n\n", "\nIn the part of the posting you have so helpfully deleted, I \npointed out that they used the wording from the English Bill of\nRights apparently *changing* what they understood by it, and I\nasked why then should we, two hundred years later, be bound by\nwhat Keith Allan Schneider *thinks* they understood by it.\n\n\nSo one cannot say \"a cruel fate\"?\n\nYour prevarications are getting increasingly unconvincing, I think.", "To recapitulate a bit:\n\n- The essence of marriage is two people's commitment to each other.\n\n- If two people claim to be married \"in their hearts\" but are not\n willing to have the marriage recognized by church and state, that's\n prima facie evidence that the commitment isn't really there.\n\n- There are obvious situations in which Christian marriage is possible\n without a civil or church wedding: if you're stranded on a desert\n island, or if your state forbids the marriage for an unjust reason\n (e.g., laws against interracial marriage).\n\n- The legal concept of \"common-law marriage\" is meant to ensure that\n the state will recognize marriages that did not start out with the\n usual ceremony and record-keeping.\n\n- Pastorally, I'm concerned that people should not use \"being married\n in God's eyes\" as an excuse for living together without a formal wedding.\n One has a duty to have one's marriage properly recorded and witnessed.\n \n- But there are also people who have been through a wedding ceremony\n without making a genuine commitment, and therefore are not married\n in God's eyes. Right?\n-- \n:- Michael A. Covington, Associate Research Scientist : *****\n:- Artificial Intelligence Programs mcovingt@ai.uga.edu : *********\n:- The University of Georgia phone 706 542-0358 : * * *\n:- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** ** <><", "\n\nNo problems.", "Well, this is my second try at posting on this subject. Here goes...\n\tIn Texas (Corpus Christi at least) if you pick up the phone and dial\n\t890 the phone company will read the number of the phone you are on \n\tback to you. I believe the service department uses this to make\n\tcertain they are repairing the correct lines when they open the BIG\n\tjunction boxes. I don't know if it will work but you can give it a\n\ttry. Good luck.\n \n\n", "\n\nI'd have to say that I have a problem with any organization, \nreligious or not, where the idea that _simple speech_ such\nas this is the basis for a crime.", "Cheryl Marks writes\n\nThat depends. Just how much older were they?\n \n", "\n\n\n\tThe quick answer: Revelation 12:7-9\n\n\t\"And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against\n\tthe dragon and his angels who fought back. But he [the dragon] was\n\tnot strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great\n\tdragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent, called the devil and\n\tSatan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled down to the\n\tearth, and his angels with him.\"\n\n\tThe earlier part of chapter 12 deals (very symbolically) with why\n\tSatan rose up in battle against Michael and the good angels in the\n\tfirst place.", "My original post was:\n\n\nThis article will just scratch the surface of a few security\nconsiderations, comments are requested. (email: fw@world.std.com)\nMy thanks to the people who responded, both on usenet and from\nOracle Corp.\n\nThe most common response was to suggest use of oracle audit \nfeatures or OPS$ passwords to control access (opinion on OPS$\nincluded suggestions to use and not use). I was also advised to \nuse table views to refine the granularity of access control.\n\nOne important security consideration in networked installations\nis that OPS$ accounts presume that the client host provides user\nauthentication. Os/2 server OPS$ users are only as secure as the \n_least_ secure machine on the network. Hence you should probably \nnot define any OPS$ accounts on systems with PC's, or limit access \nof OPS$ accounts to data with no security concerns. Unix oracle \nservers provide for disabling OPS$ access over the network (orasrv\noption), while relying on host security for local processes. \n\nInternally Oracle provides powerful and well documented (sic) \naudit mechanisms which the DBA will use to monitor system and\ndata access. These tools can be used to track the primary security\nrisks from within the Oracle environment.\n\nOracle password security is based on a proprietary usage of DES\nencryption. Oracle Corp. states that the algorithm is not prone\nto cleartext attack. This is a difficult claim to substantiate \nsince the algorithm is unknown. The concern here is that if users \nchoose easily guessed passwords. _If_ a cracker can gain access \nto your oracle database files through the host operating system, \ns/he could extract the 'cyphertext' password data and apply \ncryptanalysis techniques to learn the users passwords.\n\nAs security risks go, the above scenario is pretty low severity.\nCertainly once an intruder has access to the raw database files,\ns/he can access to the data in them. If a cracker _could_ break \nthe passwords, however, s/he could do substantial damage without\nalerting the auditing mechanism's, and leaving and audit trail\nwhich would point to valid users. At present Oracle (like Unix)\nprovides no native means of ensuring that passwords are not \nguessable. \n\nAs with all computer security, the most important defense is to \neducate users in the safe choice of passwords. These techniques\nare well discussed in internet rfc#1281 and the Crack manual, \n(both available from ftp archive servers) and, UNIX(R) System \nSecurity (Curry, David A. - Addison-Welsey 1992) \n\n", "\n\n I'll point out that the whole point of the difficult amendment\nprocess was to require a super-majority to change the Supreme Law,\nmaking it impossible for a \"majority\" of the people to simply change\nthe law on a whim. Simply changing the meaning based on \"the\nrepresentatives\" of the people effectively destroys the amendment\nprocess. The State's, you know, are also entitled to a say under\nthat process.\n \n\n I'll note that that right could be considered protected under\nthe first amendment's protection of peaceful assembly. Unless\nyou would consider a militia inherently non-peaceful, then they've\nstated the same thing twice.\n", "\n\n\n\nThat's what MCI Mail is for! (CompuServe also has \"CongressGrams\" (TM).)\n\nThis is not intended as an advertisement; that really is what MCI Mail WAS\nintended for (according to their ads).", "\n\nThe \"`little' things\" above were in reference to Germany, clearly. People\nsaid that there were similar things in Germany, but no one could name any.\nThey said that these were things that everyone should know, and that they\nweren't going to waste their time repeating them. Sounds to me like no one\nknew, either. I looked in some books, but to no avail.\n\n\nIt has *caused* problems? Again, no one has shown that things were better\nbefore the motto, or that they'd likely be better after. I don't think\nthe motto initiates any sort of harassment. Harassment will occur whether\nor not the motto is present.", "It's in the FAQ.\n\nhave fun\ngak\n", "\nNo one is questioning whether Mr. King is black. The question arises\nwhether King's race should make police officers \"afraid as hell.\" Your\nstatement seems to imply that cops should have a different standard for\nlarge black guys than for just large guys in general. \n\nThat two posts later you don't understand why anyone pointed out your use\nof the adjective is almost as informative as your original use.", "\n\nI would rather be at a higher risk of being killed than actually killed by\n ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^\nmistake. Though I do agree with the concept that the type D and E murderers\nare a massive waste of space and resources I don't agree with the concept:\n\n\tkilling is wrong\n\tif you kill we will punish you\n\tour punishment will be to kill you.\n\nSeems to be lacking in consistency.\n", "\nAhem!!! Hrumph!!!! You have encurred the wrath of Glock owners. We will beat\nyou with our hammers. Oooops, don't have any :-)\n\nSeriously. There is no difference in the safeties betweena Glock and any DA\nrevolver. Intellectually, think of the Glock as a very high cap revolver. \nIgnoring stove pipes, misfeeds and all the other bonus exercises that\nautoloaders give you, that is.\n\nEvery gun has its safe moment and its dangerous moment. If you just learn how\nto handle it, it becomes a lot less dangerous (to you).", "In <1r1om5$c5m@slab.mtholyoke.edu> jbotz@mtholyoke.edu (Jurgen Botz)\n\n\n\n\nThen it is a good thing we already have this:\n\nThe csspub mailing list: csspab@mail-gw.ncsl.nist.gov, and address on\nthe clipper mailing list, seems to contain basically the members of\nthe NIST security board.\n\nIn addition to the names already posted, their true names are as\nfollows:\n\nburrows@ecf = James Burrows a director of NIST's National Computer\nSystems Laboratory\n\nmcnulty@ecf = F. Lynn McNulty an associate director for computer\nsecurity at the National Institute of Standards and Technology's\nComputer Systems Laboratory\n\nGangemi@dockmaster.ncsc.mil = Gaetano Gangemi is director of the\nSecurity Basics by Deborah Russell and G. T. Gangemi, Sr. -1991,\nO'Reilly and Associates\n\nslambert@cgin.cto.citicorp.com = Sandra Lambert is vice-president of\ninformation security at Citibank, N.A.\n\nlipner@mitre.org = Lipner is Mitre Corp.'s director of information\nsystems.\n\ngallagher@dockmaster.ncsc.mil = Patrick Gallagher, director of the\nNational Security Agency's National Computer Security Center and a\nsecurity board member\n\nwalker@tis.com = Stephen Walker a computer security expert and\npresident of Trusted Information Systems, Inc. in Glenwood, Md\n\nwillis@rand.org = Willis H. Ware a the Rand Corp. executive who\nchairs the security board.\n\nwhitehurst@vnet.ibm.com = William Whitehurst is a security board\nmember and director of IBM Corp.'s data security programs.\n\n-- \nHarry Shapiro \t\t\t\t habs@panix.com\nList Administrator of the Extropy Institute Mailing List\nPrivate Communication for the Extropian Community since 1991\n", "\nA very well put together post. I disagree with several key points, but the\npost is an excellent one with which to \"engage in discourse\":\n\n >There has been much discussion recently about the right to\n >freedom of association. Mr. Cramer and Mr. Ronzone appear to\n >take an absolutist position on this right--that it is a\n >fundamental human right, perhaps the fundamental human right,\n >and that it supersedes other rights, such as the right to an\n >equal opportunity. Others feel that a right to an equal\n >opportunity outweighs the right to freedom of association,\n >and thus we have the never-ending debate that flares up\n >repeatedly.\n\nFreedom of Association (FOA) involves the MUTUAL and VOLUNTARY agreement of\ntwo or more people.\n\nRight to Equal Opportunity (lets call it REO) involves coercion in all cases\n(by definition).\n\n\n >A major problem is that neither of these rights are\n >explicitly declared or protected in the Constitution or in\n >the Declaration of Independence, although both can be derived\n >from these documents. Unfortunately, this means that the\n >debate will never end, because neither side can conclu-\n >sively prove the validity of their view--it becomes solely a\n >matter of personal philosophy.\n\nYes, there is much debate. But no, it can end, with once and for all\nrecognition of these rights. (Well, not totally 100% perfect end, but end\nin the same way that there is no worldwide disagreement that say, murder, is\na crime).\n\n\n >My personal opinion is that the real answer lies somewhere in\n >between. I regard both of these rights as fundamental human\n >rights which, unfortu- nately, come into direct conflict with\n >one another. Which is stronger depends on the given\n >situation.\n\nHmm, there is even MORE discusion about religion. Should we take a \n\"somewhere in between\" approach towards the State & a State recognized\nreligion? The first amendment, is so, uh, so absolutist you know.\n\n >For example, if the owner of a \"mom-and-pop\" store wishes to\n >hire an employee to help out, their right to freedom of\n >association outweighs the rights of their job applicants to\n >an equal opportunity. They should be free to hire whomever\n >they choose, using whatever criteria they choose, without any\n >government intervention at all.\n >\n >Similarly, if a family wishes to rent out a bedroom in their\n >home, or a garage apartment, or something similar, then their\n >right to freedom of association outweighs the rights of their\n >prospective tenants to an equal opportunity.\n >\n >If, on the other hand, IBM, a multi-national corporation with\n >275,000 employees, publicly owned, and operated by a board of\n >directors, wishes to hire additional employees, then whose\n >freedom of association are we protecting? The board of\n >directors? The other employees? The owners of the stock? In\n >this case, the applicant's right to an equal opportunity\n >outweighs the right to freedom of association, and we, as a\n >society, can ask IBM to use only those criteria which are\n >relevant to the specific task.\n\nWhy? Says who? Why can mon & pop have FOA, but IBM be forced, and force is\nthe correct word here, to have REO? As purchase of IBM is voluntary, then\nthere are very well defined procedures on how IBM chooses to do some things\nand chooses to do other things. Why not let those same procedures work for\nemployment policies?\n\n\n >Similarly, if a landlord owns a number of apartment buildings\n >in which he does not live, and which are managed by an\n >independent management agency, then whose freedom of\n >association are we protecting? If the owner does not live in\n >his buildings and has no contact with his tenants, then the\n >prospective tenant's right to an equal opportunity outweighs\n >the right to freedom of association, and we, as a society,\n >can ask the owner to use only those criteria which are\n >relevant to \"good\" tenants. (I've put \"good\" in quotation\n >marks because I really don't want to be drawn off into the\n >side issue of what constitutes a good tenant.)\n\nWhy does this tenant have an \"option\" (I won't call it a right) to destroy\nthe FOA of the landlord? If the landlord and the tenant can't agree, then they\nboth can cease from using each other's property.\n\nSuddenly, by arm waving, by magic, a landlord does not have FOA. And on what\nbasis does the FOA of the landlord \"disappear\"?\n\nIt seems that vague terms like \"no contact with tenants\" suffice.\n\nWell, I think FOA is one our most important rightts (in the top 2-3), and by\ngolly, if the State is going to make it suffer, I sure would like to see the\nheinous crime that justifies the removal of this right.\n\nI don't think \"no contact\" with the tenats is even a crime, much less something\nthat should cause severe interference with important rights.\n\n >I suspect that the majority of the people in this country\n >agree with my position on these extreme cases, particularly\n >if they are presented in this manner. I don't know if Mr.\n >Ronzone or Mr. Cramer would agree--I suspect not. In any\n >case, additional problems arise when we try to apply\n >guidelines for the middle ground. What if the company has 10\n >employees, or 100, or 1000? Where do we draw the line between\n >protecting the right to freedom of association and protecting\n >the right to an equal opportunity?\n\nRights are not defined by majority/mob choice. FOA is an absolute. REO\nis a fancy name for thuggery, for racism, and coercion.\n\n >The difficulty is that any line we draw will, of necessity,\n >be artificial. And any legislation resulting will be flawed.\n >In the past, the government has usually tried to pass laws\n >which referred to the number of employees hired by the\n >company--e.g., any company with more than xxx employees was\n >affected by the law. Those with fewer were unaffected.\n\nOf course it would be. You dimly see that the line must be artifiacial, because\nFOA is the only right. Just like a State religion -- you can't jsutify that\neither.\n\n >Generally, I believe that if we do not have any regulations\n >affecting these rights, then the right to freedom of\n >association will be stronger. On the other hand, many of the\n >regulations protect the right to an equal opportunity too\n >much, weakening the right to freedom of association.\n >\n >I don't believe there is a satisfactory solution which will\n >please everybody. A solution that I came up with is to use\n >publicly owned vs. privately owned as the dividing line. If\n >the company remains privately owned, then the owners should\n >be free to do whatever they want with their company. If the\n >company becomes publicly owned, then the public has a right\n >to ask the company to submit to additional regulation.\n\nWhy? I assume that when you say \"publicly owned\", you are talking about those\nquasi-State companys that do NOT have shareholders.\n\nThe companies on the Fortune 500, for example, are all privately owned. They\ncan give you a list of all of their owners. They have no \"anonymous\",\nunknown to them, owners.\n\n\n >By the way, the above analysis is based on the assumption\n >that the right to freedom of association and the right to an\n >equal opportunity are both fundamental human rights of equal\n >importance. Since this is entirely a matter of faith, not\n >subject to any \"proof\", I do not choose to even try to\n >establish this. You either accept it or you don't.\n >\n >Any comments?\n\nFOA can be derived by any two rational people, on a basis that neither has\nevil, malicious, or murderous intent towards the others.\n\nIn short, agreement is mutual, or not at all.\n\nYour REO on the other hand, lives only by accepting coercion, the gun, into\nthe situation. And that is self-destructive of the whole argument, because it\nis based only on might makes right. Sort of like saying, \"nobody has a right\nto live\", whereupon I whip out a gun and shoot you dead -- end of argument.\n\n\n-- \nThere are actually people that STILL believe Love Canal was some kind of\nenvironmental disaster. Weird, eh?", "I am going to stop reading the homosexuality posts, at least for a \nwhile, because of the repeated seemingly personal attacks on me via \npost/e-mail(mainly e-mail). If anyone has a specific comment, \nsuggestion, and/or note that does not contain any name calling, etc. \nthat they would like for me to read, send it to me via e-mail. I \nwould like a copy of file mentioned by the moderator ragarding the \nexergetical issue of it. I attempted to get it via ftp but was \nunable.", "Poor Phill Hallam-Baker. The tremors are getting worse, and his\nstratospheric typing skills can no longer keep up. [spelling flame or\nreal sympathy - only his hairdresser knows for sure]\n\n[Official Mossad policy: we don't stop until we get Disneyland!]", "\"Jack Previdi\" writes, in reply to Dorothy Heydt\nreminding us that advertising is not done on Internet:\n\n\t As a matter of fact D.J., it does make a difference.\n\t Almost a half million new users joined the Internet last year,\n\t many of them are commercial businesses. The ban on commercial\n\t use of Internet is no more.\n\nJack, there is a difference between using the network for commercial\npurposes and advertising in newsgroups. Business communication is\nokay. Advertising to hundreds of thousands of users around the planet\nwho have no desire to receive advertising is not okay.\n\n\t Those of us who pay for Internet access are constrained only\n\t by our innate good taste and no have no \"administrator\" to \n\t guide(?) us.\n\nI suspect that a site which generated a large volume of material not\nin anybody's good taste would find itself getting a lot of attention\nit didn't want. You may belong to the public library, but that\ndoesn't mean you can deface the books, disorder the stacks, or disturb\nthe other patrons.\n\nYou're constrained by the same rules that the rest of the users (many\nacademic and military, who get irritable about a network for which\nthey pay with tax and grant money carrying private business\nadvertising) follow. There are Secret Masters here, just like\neverywhere else. They're not as obvious as the ones on Prodigy, but\nthey're here.\n\nNo doubt at some point the Internet, like everything else, will become\ngrotty enough to carry advertising. At that time I hope it is\nconfined to its own newsgroups and not on discussion groups---like\nmisc.writing.\n", "-> > But, do you knew how much organization is required to training a large\n-> > group of poeple twice a year. Just to try to get the same people\n-> > every year, provide a basic training to new people so they can\n-> > be integrated into the force, and find a suitable location, it \n-> > requires a continually standing committee of organizers. \n-> \n-> Again, my response is, \"so what?\" Is Mr. Rutledge arguing that since\n-> the local and federal governments have abandoned their charter to support\n-> such activity, and passed laws prohibiting private organizations from \n-> doing so, that they have eliminated the basis for the RKBA? On the\n-> contrary, to anyone who understands the game, they have strengthened it.\n\nNo, I originally argued that the Second Amendment was \"a little bit\nand an anachronism.\" These prohibiting laws are examples why the are\nan anachronism. After all, laws in made by representatives of the \npeople. These representatives of the people have already decided\nthat the Second Amendment does not apply or is too broad in some\ncases. Since these representatives feel an unconditional \ninterpretation is not wanted, then it is probable that they majority\nof the people feel the same way. If this is so, it is an example\nof the people using their power of government. If this is not\nhow the people feel, the people should stand up and state their wishes.\n \n-> RKBA is dependent on the existence of a top-flight, well-regulated\n-> militia. Why this is a false assumption has already been posted a \n-> number of times. \n\nNo, I simple stated that the people have a right to \"join a well\norganized militia.\" And I have also stated that a militia that\nmeets once or twice a year is clearly \"well organized.\" And this\nstate of readiness that I have claimed the people have a \"right\"\nto, is the same state of readiness expected of the militia as stated\nby Hamilton. \n\n", "\nFor the first Move incident (no bomb, several members killed in\ngunfire, circa 1978) the mayor was the very white Frank Rizzo. \nFor the second (bomb included) the mayor was Wilson Goode, who \nis indeed black.", "\nAnd in other parts of the world, European \"Socialists\" would be known as\nfascist capitalist pigs. Get your head out of your labels and think carefully\nfor once:\n\nAccording to the EFF announcement on this thing, the NSA has been developing\nthis turkey for *four* years. The manufacturing contract was let *14 months\nago*. Anyone out there who believes that the fact that Clinton's name was\non this White House announcement means that Bush or any other Republican is\na staunch supporter of personal privacy is a fool.", "Hello. I have the following for sale. Most of the books are\nin perfect condition. If interested please e-mail to chungy2@rpi.edu.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n\nThrough The Telescope (hard cover)\t\t\t\t$14.00 \nSurface Physics (soft cover)\t\t\t\t\t$13.00\n\nThe Physics of Structurally Disordered \n\tMatter: An Introduction\t(soft cover)\t\t\t$55.00\n\nSubatomic Physics (hard cover)\t\t\t\t\t$57.00 \nA First General Relativity (hard cover)\t\t\t\t$20.00 \nNon-Equilibrium Thermodynamics (soft cover)\t\t\t$8.00 \n\nAdvances in Atomic and Molecular Physics. Vol 1. (hard cover)\t$30.00 \n\nAdvances in Atomic and Molecular Physics. Vol 3. (hard cover)\t$30.00\n\nMolecular Beams (hard cover)\t\t\t\t\t$15.00\n\nMolecular Beams and Reaction Kinetics. (hard cover)\t\t$20.00 \n\nPerturbation Methods in Applied Mathematics. (hard cover)\t$40.00\n\nElementary Differential Equations and \n\tBoundary Value Problems. (hard cover)\t\t\t$27.00\n\nVector Mechanics for Engineers: Statics \n\tand Dynamics. (hard cover)\t\t\t\t$30.00\n\nFree-Electron Lasers. (hard cover)\t\t\t\t$20.00", "I found this press release from Trial Lawyers for Public Justice on\nanother system, and thought it would be of interest on campuses \nwhere the administration or the athletics department wants to \neliminate the women's ice hockey team.\n\n Women Athletes, TLP Win Sex Discrimination Ruling: Brown University\nOrdered to Restore Two Women's Varsity Teams\nTo: National Desk, Sports Writer\n Contact: Lynette Labinger, 401-421-9794, home 401-274-7507, or\n Ray Marcaccio, 401-831-8900, both of Trial Lawyers For\n Public Justice", "\nIn 1967, when I was a grad student at UW in Seattle I had a chance to \nread Hoover's book \"Masters of Deceit\", and I quote a sentence (from \nmemory):\n\n\"and beware my fellow Americans, a communist may look just as an \nordinary person...\"\n\nI went to the mirror and it was true.\n\n-- \nBorut B. Lavrencic, D.Sc. | X.400 :C=si;A=mail;P=ac;O=ijs;S=lavrencic\nJ. Stefan Institute | Internet:Borut.B.Lavrencic@ijs.si\nUniversity of Ljubljana, | Phone :+ 386 1 159 199\nSI-61111 Ljubljana, Slovenia |\t PGP Public Key available on request", "\nOur new Attorney General seems determined to do so. In the past\n\n\tShe hopes the King beating will not reduce public confidince\n\tin law enforcement.\n\n\tThe tactics of using tear gas and driving tanks through\n\twalls in Waco were intended to further a \"peacefull solution\"\n\tto the crisis.\n\n\tThose same tactics were intended to prevent a mass suicide,\n\tbut she never expected the sect to react by killing themselves.\n\nIt's comforting to know, at least, that she wasn't Clinton's first\nchoice...", "\nThis is quite corect, but a bullet hitting a burned body with little energy\nwill show virtually no deformation, ie a hollow point probably would not\nexpand, an FMJ would be \"pristene\". Also the bullets will not be marked\nwith the lands ang grooves of a barrel, because they didn't come out of\none. A good pathologist should be able to notice this right away.\n\nLet us hope that the ME's that handle these bodies are more competent\nthen the ones who did JFK's body.", "\n\nFirst of all as far as I know, only male homosexuality is explicitly\nmentioned in the bibles, so you're off the hook there, I think. In\nany event, there are *plenty* of people in many denominations who\ndo not consider a person's sexual identification of gay/lesbian/bisexual\nas an \"immoral lifestyle choice\"\n\n\nThis is another misconception. You are not being told the whole story.\n\nMy former minister is a lesbian, and I know personally and\nprofessionally several openly gay and lesbian ministers. I am\na Unitarian-Universalist and like most others in my denomination,\nam pro-choice. You needn't go looking to the Unitarian Universalists\n(which is a liberal religion) for acceptance of your sexual\nidentification and pro-choice views, however; there are many of us\nwho believe in spirituality AND freedom of conscience.\n\nGood Luck on your journey!\n", "\n\nAnd most definitely read it in conjunction with Heinlein's _Starship\nTrooper_. The two books are radically different viewpoints of the\nsame basic premises. I've even heard tell of English classes built\naround this.\n\n-- \n\"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live\n in the real world.\" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden", "\n\nYou're sitting in your home reading a good book. Your neighbors think\nyou're a quiet, upstanding citizen. A random person anonymously calls \nthe authorities and tells them you beat your children, sleep with all \nthe neighbor wimmen, and own a bunch of \"nasty 50mm machine guns.\" \n\nNow what are they supposed to do? \n\n\nAh, I see. They're supposed to send 100 men in horse trailers with\nautomatic weapons, storm onto your roof, and throw grenades at your \nhouse with no warning. Then, after subjecting you to noise torture\nand telling the national news media for a month what a filthy son of \na bitch you are, they're supposed to gas you and knock your house \naround a bit until they manage to collapse it, cause a fire, or \nsomething equally conclusive.\n\nHope your neighbors don't tumble to this -- at least none of them that\nmight have a craving for a ringside seat at some cheap but dramatic \nlocal entertainment at someone else's expense. Or maybe even\nPARTICULARLY at your expense.\n\nAt least they won't have to read you your rights, Joe -- obviously you\nhad no use for them anyway.\n\n-- ", "[Newsgroups: m.h.a added, followups set to most appropriate groups.]\n\nIn <1993Apr19.205615.1013@unlv.edu> todamhyp@charles.unlv.edu (Brian M.\n\n\n(It's \"Kirlian\". \"Krillean\" pictures are portraits of tiny shrimp. :)\n\n[...]\n\n\nI think it's safe to say that anything that's not at 0 degrees Kelvin\nwill have its own \"energy signature\" -- the interesting questions are\nwhat kind of energy, and what it signifies.\n\nI'd check places like Edmund Scientific (are they still in business?) --\nor I wonder if you can find ex-Soviet Union equipment for sale somewhere\nin the relcom.* hierarchy.\n\nSome expansion on Kirlian photography:\n\nFrom the credulous side: [Stanway, Andrew, _Alternative Medicine: A Guide\nTo Natural Therapies_, ISBN 0-14-008561-0, New York: Viking Penguin, 1986,\np211, p188. A not-overly critical but still useful overview of 32\nalternative health therapies.]\n\n ...the Russian engineer Semyon Kirlian and his wife Valentina during the\n 1950s. Using alternating currents of high frequency to 'illuminate'\n their subjects, they photographed them. They found that if an object\n was a good conductor (such as a metal) the picture showed only its\n surface, while the pictures of poor conductors showed the inner\n structure of the object even if it were optically opaque. They found\n too that these high frequency pictures could distinguish between dead\n and living objects. Dead ones had a constant outline whilst living ones\n were subject to changes. The object's life activity was also visible in\n highly variable colour patterns.\n\n High frequency photography has now been practised for twenty years in\n the Soviet Union but only a few people in the West have taken it up\n seriously. Professor Douglas Dean in New York and Professor Philips at\n Washington University in St Louis have produced Kirlian photographs and\n others have been produced in Brazil, Austria and Germany.\n\n Using Kirlian photography it is possible to show an aura around people's\n fingers, notably around those of healers who are concentrating on\n healing someone. Normally, blue and white rays emanate from the fingers\n but, when a subject becomes angry or excited, the aura turns red and\n spotty. The Soviets are now using Kirlian photography to diagnose\n diseases which cannot be diagnosed by any other method. They argue that\n in most illnesses there is a preclinical stage during which the person\n isn't actually ill but is about to be. They claim to be able to\n foretell a disease by photographing its preclinical phase.\n\n But the most exciting phenomenon illustrated by Kirlian photography is\n the phantom effect. During high frequency photography of a leaf from\n which a part had been cut, the photograph gave a complete picture of the\n leaf with the removed part showing up faintly. This is extremely\n important because it backs up the experiences of psychics who can 'see'\n the legs of amputees as if they were still there. The important thing\n about the Kirlian phantoms though is that the electromagnetic pattern\n can't possibly represent a secondary phenomenon -- or the field would\n vanish when the piece of leaf or leg vanished. The energy grid\n contained in a living object must therefore be far more significant than\n the actual object itself.\n\n [...]\n\n Kirlian photography has shown how water mentally 'charged' by a healer\n has a much richer energy field around it than ordinary water...\n\n\nFrom the incredulous side: [MacRobert, Alan, \"Reality shopping; a\nconsumer's guide to new age hokum.\", _Whole Earth Review_, Autumn 1986,\nvNON4 p4(11). An excellent article providing common-sense guidelines for\nevaluating paranormal claims, and some of the author's favorite examples\nof hokum.]\n\n The crank usually works in isolation from everyone else in his field of\n study, making grand discoveries in his basement. Many paranormal\n movements can be traced back to such people -- Kirlian photography, for\n instance. If you pump high-voltage electricity into anything it will\n emit glowing sparks, common knowledge to electrical workers and\n hobbyists for a century. It took a lone basement crank to declare that\n the sparks represent some sort of spiritual aura. In fact, Kirlian\n photography was subjected to rigorous testing by physicists John O.\n Pehek, Harry J. Kyler, and David L. Faust, who reported their findings\n in the October 15, 1976, issue of Science. Their conclusion: The\n variations observed in Kirlian photographs are due solely to moisture on\n the surface of the body and not to mysterious \"auras\" or even\n necessarily to changes in mood or mental state. Nevertheless,\n television shows, magazines, and books (many by famous\n parapsychologists) continue to promote Kirlian photography as proof of\n the unknown.\n", ": My 9 yr old son has signed up to do a science report on batteries. I was\n: wondering if anyone could provide me with some information as to how to\n: construct a home-built battery. In my grade school days, I remember seeing\n: the 'ice cube tray' version, but I don't remember what to use as a good\n: electrolyte or what the easily obtainable metals were. \n: \n: Thank you in advance.\n \nI remember watching a whole \"Mr. Wizzard\" program on this subject when\nI was a kid. The battery constructed on the program which made the \nbiggest impression on me, and generated the most power, was made using\na galvanized bucket (for the zinc) and a copper toilet tank float. The\nelectrolyte was sauerkraut!\n", "\n\nKrillean photography involves taking pictures of minute decapods resident in \nthe seas surrounding the antarctic. Or pictures taken by them, perhaps.", "Does anyone know what the differences are between the Stylewriter\nand the Stylewriter II?\n\nPlease respond via e-mail to:\n\n\tl.d.sanders@larc.nasa.gov\n\nThanks.\n\n\n-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --\n\nLyle D. Sanders L.D.Sanders@LaRC.NASA.GOV\nUNISYS Government Systems Inc. (128.155.4.44)\nMail Stop 157-B (804) 864-7470 VOICE\nNASA Langley Research Center (804) 864-7604 FAX\nHampton, VA 23681-0001\n______________________________________________________________________________", "Oops, I forgot to set read permission. It's fixed now.\n\nftp netcom.com\nlogin: anonymous\npassword: your@email.address\ncd pub/mvp\nbinary\nget clinton.zip\n\nYou need pkzip 2.x or the latest net.zip to un-\"deflate\" this.\n\nEconomic stats since Day One, plus all of the myriad ways Slick Willie\nand the Gang of 535 are preparing to do it to us. From Ron Brown's\ndesk, so any distortion is pro-Democrat, can you believe it?", "\n\tDo you mean besides the National Guard?\n\n\tOutside of military reservations?\n\n\tBesides national emergencies?", "NUT CASE PANICS!!!!REALIZES HE'S MADE A COMPLETE FOOL OF HIMSELF IN FRONT OF\nTHOUSANDS OF NETTERS!!!!BACKS AWAY FROM EARLIER RASH STATEMENTS!!!!GOD HAVE\nMERCY ON HIM!!!!\n", "\nThen not murdering would have no moral significance, since there\nwould be nothing voluntary about it.\n\n\nYou are starting to get the point. Mimicry is not necessarily the \nsame as the action being imitated. A Parrot saying \"Pretty Polly\" \nisn't necessarily commenting on the pulchritude of Polly.\n\n\nSee above.\n\n\nThey do. I and other posters have given you many examples of exactly\nthis, but you seem to have a very short memory.\n\n\nI'm saying:\n\n\t\"There must be the possibility that the organism - it's not \n\tjust people we are talking about - can consider alternatives.\"\n\nIt's right there in the posting you are replying to.", "\n\nIt only falls apart if you attempt to apply it. This doesn't mean that\nan objective system can't exist. It just means that one cannot be\nimplemented.", "I just started reading the group. I was wondering if someone\ncould re-post exactly what the Prophetic Warning to NYC was.\n\nThanks\n-jh", "\n\n\n\n\n\n No one says you have to read any of it Ralph.. Go play in traffic.., or take \na nap... They work for me.. ", ":>:It would seem that a society with a \"failed\" government would be an ideal\n:>:setting for libertarian ideals to be implemented. Now why do you suppose\n:>:that never seems to occur?...\n:>\n:>\n:>I fail to see why you should feel this way in the first place. Constant\n:>combat isn't particularly conducive to intellectual theorizing. Also,\n:>they tend to get invaded before they can come to anything like a stable\n:>society anyway. \n: \n:And the reason that the Soviet Union couldn't achieve the ideal of pure\n:communism was the hostility of surrounding capitalist nations...Uh huh.\n:Somehow, this all sounds familiar. Once again, utopian dreams are \n:confronted by the real world...\n\n\n\nSteve, you're the one who suggested that a failed government should be an \nideal proving ground, I never felt that way in the first place. Quite the \ncontrary, I think a better proving ground would be someplace that already\nhad a governemnt that would prevent outright acts of agression, yet had a\nstrong spirit of individualism and initiative. Someplace like... Texas :-)", "\nMy own personal and highly subjective opinion is that freedom\nis a good thing.\n\nHowever, when I here people assert that the only \"true\" freedom\nis in following the words of this and that Messiah, I realise\nthat people don't even agree on the meaning of the word.\n\nWhat does it mean to say that word X represents an objective\nvalue when word X has no objective meaning?", "\n\nOh?\n\n\nWhat is wrong with *this* motto, now? If you wouldn't approve of\neven that one, I am beginning to think that you just have something\nagainst mottos in general. What do you think of \"E plurbis unum?\"", "A judge denied GM's new trial motion, even though GM says it has two\nnew witnesses that said the occupant of the truck was dead from the impact, not\nfrom the fire.\n\n\tThoughts?\n\n\tIt's kind of scary when you realize that judges are going to start\ndenying new trials even when new evidence that contradicts the facts that led\nto the previous ruling appear.\n\n\tOr has the judge decided that the new witnesses are not to be believed? \nShouldn't that be up to a jury?\n\n\tAnd what about members of the previous jury parading through the talk\nshows proclaiming their obvious bias against GM? Shouldn't that be enough for\na judge to through out the old verdict and call for a new trial?\n\n\tWhatever happened to jurors having to be objective?", "THE WHITE HOUSE\n\n Office of the Press Secretary\n \nFor Immediate Release March 14, 1993\n\n\n PUBLIC EVENTS ON THE PRESIDENT'S SCHEDULE FOR\n THURSDAY, APRIL 15, 1993\n \t \n 10:20 am EST The President meets with Leadership of Law \t \n enforcement organizations -- The Rose \t \n Garden\n \t \t \t \n \t \t \t OPEN PRESS\n\n 3:00 AM EDT The President meets with the National \t \n \t Ambassador for the March of Dimes Birth \t \t \n Defects Foundation -- The Oval Office\n \t \n \t \t \t TV POOL, OPEN STILL PHOTO, WRITING POOL\n \n 3:15 AM EDT The President meets with Mosaic Minstrels of \n \t \t New York, NY -- The Rose Garden\n\n \t \t \t OPEN PHOTO, WRITING POOL\n\n 3:30 AM EDT The President meets with the Berwick, PA, \t \n \t High School Bulldogs, AAA State Football \t \n \t Champions -- The South Lawn\n\n \t \t \t OPEN PHOTO, WRITING POOL\n\n \t \t UPCOMING EVENTS ON THE PRESIDENT'S \nSCHEDULE\n\n \t \t \t \n \t \n \t April 16, 1993 The President meets with \t \n \t \t \t Japanese Prime Minister \t \t \n \t \t \t Miyazawa, The White House\n\n \t April 26, 1993 President Clinton meets with \n \t \t \t President Amato of Italy, The \t \n \t \t \t White House", "\n Nick Haines sez;\n >(given that I've heard the Shuttle software rated as Level 5 in\n >maturity, I strongly doubt that this [having lots of bugs] is the case).\n\n Level 5? Out of how many? What are the different levels? I've never\n heard of this rating system. Anyone care to clue me in?\n\nThis is a rating system used by ARPA and other organisations to\nmeasure the maturity of a `software process' i.e. the entire process\nby which software gets designed, written, tested, delivered, supported\netc.\n\nSee `Managing the Software Process', by Watts S. Humphrey, Addison\nWesley 1989. An excellent software engineering text. The 5 levels of\nsoftware process maturity are:\n\n1. Initial\n2. Repeatable\n3. Defined\n4. Managed\n5. Optimizing\n\nThe levels are approximately characterized as follows:\n\n1. no statistically software process control. Have no statistical\n basis for estimating how large software will be, how long it will\n take to produce, how expensive it will be, or how reliable it will\n be. Most software production is at this level.\n\n2. stable process with statistical controls, rigorous project\n management; having done something once, can do it again. Projects\n are planned in detail, and there is software configuration\n management and quality assurance.\n\n3. The process is defined and understood, implementation is\n consistent. This includes things like software inspection, a\n rigorous software testing framework, more configuration management,\n and typically a `software engineering process group' within the\n project.\n\n4. Statistical information on the software is systematically gathered\n and analysed, and the process is controlled on the basis of this\n information. Software quality is measured and has goals.\n\n5. Defects are prevented, the process is automated, software contracts\n are effective and certified.", "NUT CASE PANICS!!!!JUMPS THE GUN ON THE NET BEFORE GETTING FACTS STRAIGHT!!!!\n", "has\n ^^^^^^^^\nOops, I meant fair, not unfair.\n", "ISBN 0-13-747270-6\n", "\n[text deleted] \n[text deleted]\n\nThank you very much Paul. I have always been impressed by the very human-ness of\nMary. That God chose a woman, like me, to bring into this world the incarnation\nof Himself proves to me that this God is MY God. He reaches down from His\nperfection to touch me. Ah, the wonder of it all :-)\n", "\n\n\n\n\"Put not your trust in princes\" is the Biblical proverb. The modern\nanalog is governments. At the time of the founding of the US, the\nidea that citizens had rights above those of the government was not\nthat common, but was explicit in the writings of the founders. To a\nconsiderable extent, Englishmen also had those rights.\n\nYes, times change, and technology changes. The possibility of \na few governments enserfing all of mankind was not possible until\nquite recently. In the feudal system, the lord was almost as\nrestricted as the serfs, so having the people enserf themselves\ndoes not make anything better; most feudal lords, and even most\nslaveowners, did not mistreat those under them.\n\nFreedom of speech and freedom of religion are under real attack NOW.\n", "I was wondering if anyone knew of where I could find source\ncode for a program to solve a substitution cipher? \n\nThanks!\nKevin", "How hot should the CPU in a 486-33 DX machine be?\n\nCurrently it gets so hot that I can not hold a finger on it for more than\n0.5 s. \n\nI keep a big fan blowing on it, but am considering using a heat sink.\n\nAny advice?\n\n", "\nI am not a battery expert, but from recent reading, a lead acid battery\nwill self discharge at a relatively high rate, and if stored in a discharged\nstate, will develop a condition I think is called sulfation. In storage,\neither the electrolyte should be removed and replaced for use (fat chance\nI'd ever do that at home), or the battery should be stored on a trickle\ncharge. I have also (I think) read that the condition may be reversable\nif hooked up to a current limited charging circuit fro a LONG period of time.\nThe refernce I remember is to use C/50 (where C is the amp hours) as the\ncharging circuit, and leave it hooked up for weeks. Some of this may\nonly apply to Gel type cells, but I suspect the same applies to the liquid\ntype.", "}>}(a) out of context;\n}>Must have missed when you said this about these other \"promises of god\" that we keep\n}>getting subjected to. Could you please explain why I am wrong and they are OK?\n}>Or an acknowledgement of public hypocrisy. Both or neither.\n}\n}So, according to you, Jim, the only way to criticize one person for\n}taking a quote out of context, without being a hypocrite, is to post a\n}response to *every* person on t.r.m who takes a quote out of context?\n\nDid I either ask or assert that? Or is this your misaimed telepathy at work again?\n\n}>BTW to David Josli: I'm still waiting for either your public\n}>acknowledgement of your\n}>telepathy and precognition (are you a witch?) or an appology and retraction.\n}\n}Can you wait without whining? To pass the time, maybe you should go\n}back and read the portions of my article that you so conveniently\n}deleted in your reply. You'll find most of your answers there. \n\nNope: In particular:\nExample of telepathy?\n\nWhat threat. Produce it.\n\nMore telepathy? Or maybe just empathic telepathy, capable of determining emotional states.\n\nMore telepathy. How do you know \"trying\"?!?!?\n\nPrecognition? Substantiate. ", "\n\nDiplomatic :-)\n\nI realize I'm fighting Occam's razor in this argument, so I'll try to\nexplain why I feel a mind is necessary. \n\nFirstly, I'm not impressed with the ability of algorithms. They're\ngreat at solving problems once the method has been worked out, but not\nat working out the method itself.\n\nAs a specific example, I like to solve numerical crosswords (not the\nsimple do-the-sums-and-insert-the-answers type, the hard ones.) To do\nthese with any efficiency, you need to figure out a variety of tricks.\nNow, I know that you can program a computer to do these puzzles, but\nin doing so you have to work out the tricks _yourself_, and program\nthem into the computer. You can, of course, 'obfuscate' the trick, and\nwrite the program so that it is uncovered, but as far as I can see,\nthe trick still has to be there in some form to be discovered. Does\nthis mean that all the ideas we will ever have are already\npre-programmed into our brains? This is somewhat unlikely, given that\nour brains ultimately are encoded in 46 chromosomes worth of genetic\nmaterial, much of which isn't used.\n\nOne way around this is to bring the environment into the equation, but\n(again, as far as I can see) this still has an air of 'if you see\nobject X, then perform action Y,' and we don't seem to get anywhere.\nThe algorithm has to anticipate what it might see, and what\nconclusions to draw from it's experience.\n\nThe other problem with algorithms is their instability. Not many\nalgorithms survive if you take out a large portion of their code, yet\npeople survive strokes without going completely haywire (there are\nside-effects, but patients still seem remarkably stable.) Also,\nneurons in perfectly healthy people are dying at an alarming rate -\ncan an algorithm survive if I randomly corrupt various bits of it's\ncode?\n\nThe next problem is the sticky question of \"What is colour?\" (replace\n'colour' with the sensation of your choice.) Presumably, the\nmaterialist viewpoint is that it's the product of some kind of\nchemical reaction. The usual products of such a reaction are energy +\ndifferent chemicals. Is colour a mixture of these? If this is so, a\ncomputer won't see colour, because the chemistry is different. Does an\nalgorithm that sees colour have a selective advantage over an\nequivalent that doesn't? It shouldn't, because the outputs of each\nalgorithm ought to be the same in equivalent circumstances. So why do\nwe see colour?\n\n\n\nA bit of idle speculation...\n\nIf I remember correctly, quantum mechanics consists of a wavefunction,\nwith two processes acting on it. The first process has been called\n'Unitary Evolution' (or 'U'), is governed by Schroedinger's equation\nand is well known. The second process, called various things such as\n'collapse of the wavefunction' or 'state vector reduction' (or 'R'),\nand is more mysterious. It is usually said to occur when a\n'measurement' takes place, although nobody seems to know precisely\nwhen that occurs. When it does occur, the effect of R is to abruptly\nchange the wavefunction.\n\nI envisage R as an interaction between the wavefunction and 'something\nelse,' which I shall imaginitively call 'part X.' It seems reasonable\nto assume that _something_ causes R, although that something might be\nthe wavefunction itself (in which case, part X is simply the\nwavefunction. Note, though, that we'd need more than U to explain R.)\n\nAnyway, I'm speculating that minds would be in part X. There seems to\nbe some link between consciousness and R, in that we never see linear\nsuperpositions of anything, although there are alternative\nexplainations for this. I've no idea how a brain is supposed to access\npart X, but since this is only speculation, that won't matter too\nmuch :-) My main point is that there might be a place for minds in\nphysics.\n\nI'll go back to my nice padded cell now, if that's OK with you :-)\n\n\n-- \n------------------------------------------------------------------------\nKevin Anthoney kax@cs.nott.ac.uk\n Don't believe anything you read in .sig files.", "Items for sale.....\n\nThis package was bought throught a award give-away company. I attempted\nto cancel my order before I received the package, but I was too late and\nthe company refused to take the package back for refund. I know the truth\nwhich I would never get my $697 back, but I wish to get my money back as\nclose as possible. Here is the describtion of the package...\n\nNishika 3D camera\tIt takes very good picture, never been opended\n\t\t\tor used. It came with wide angle flesh, carring\n\t\t\tcase, film, and a instruction video. It has four\n\t\t\tlens and created a 3D effect on a regular 35mm\n\t\t\tfilm.\n\nJewelry\t\t\tIt came with the package as additional gift.\n\nBahama vacation voucher\tThe voucher is good for two RT airfare to Freeport.\n\t\t\tThe users get a special hotel rate of $27 per-person\n\t\t\tper-night. Meals, ground transfer, hotel tax is\n\t\t\t_not_ included.\n\nLas Vegas, Reno, Orlando\tThe voucher provides one RT airfare, and\n\t\t\t\thotel accomodation for 3 days/ 2 nights.\n\t\t\t\tMeals, ground transfer, hotel tax is not\n\t\t\t\tincluded. The voucher is good for all 3\n\t\t\t\tlocations, but you can't travel to all 3\n\t\t\t\tplaces at once.\n\nCancun, Mexico\t\tThe voucher provides one RT airfare, and hotel\n\t\t\taccomodation for 3 days / 2 nights. Meals and\n\t\t\tground transfer, hotel tax is not included as\n\t\t\tusual.\n\nI paid $697 for the whole package. So try not to be cold-blooded when you\nmake your offer. Details would be provided by request. I do wish to sell\nthe whole package at once. So if you are just looking for the vacation\nvouchers, I don't care if you sell the camera to other for a higher pric\nIf you are interested in the camera, you could treat the vacation vouchers\nas gift.\n\nIf you receive a letter in your mail box which says that you are selected\nto be part of the sweeptake and you have at least one out of five awards. \nTrust me, you would get the exactly the same package as I did. There is \nonly one award which will be given away. So don't bother even to call them \nback, if you are really interested, you could get it from me for a cheaper \nprice. And you could receive the package within a week ( I waited three \nmonths to get my first and final packages). Also, they would ask for your\ncredit card number and you have to pay for the interest to the credit \ncard company. So why spend more than you should when you could get them\nfrom me for a cheaper price.\n\nIf you are interested, please reply to me as soon as posible. I really\nwish to get this over with. Make me an offer, if I am confortable with\nyour offer, I would send the package by U.P.S. the next day morning.\nMore details could be given if you wish.\n\nPlease contact me at koutd@hirama.hiram.edu", "The only ether I see here is the stuff you must\nhave been breathing before you posted...\n", "\nThis must have been in the works for some time. The Bush administration must\nhave been working on it for quite a while. --Clinton simply took the credit (or\nblame, depending on how you look at it).\n", "\n > \n > Bull shit. There is no reason in the world why we can't say that\n > taking views analogous to the KKK's or some such organization is\n > wrong. There is no reason why some morality may not be legislated. As\n > it is we do not allow theft, or murder, or rape. Why should we allow\n > hateful sppech whose only purpose is to stir anger and violence.\n > \n > Harry.\n\n\t Actually, You're wrong as well. The KKK is allowed to\n march and any attempts to curtail their freedom is rejected\n (Actually I believe the ACLU won a case for them last year). \n\t Morality should not be legilated in a free country like\n the U.S. \n\nYes. That seems to be the problem. Even Germany now has laws for its\nmilitary where soldiers are *required* to disobey orders if they\nbelieve the orders are morally incorrect.\n\nNaziism is prohibited in Canada, Germany (others?). How pray tell is\nCanda any less free than the US?\n\n\t I'll post something on TJ and Uva under Uva for those\n Hoos bashers.", "\n\nMaybe I'm too \"religious,\" but when I see a bill to \"establish a right,\"\nI wince. Keep in mind, what the law giveth, the law can taketh away.\n-- ", "\nOh! For a second I thought this was a posting by Ed Green!", "\n What, pray tell, does this mean? Just who exactly is *they*?\nYou mean \"they\" as in people who do not blindly swallow every\npiece of propoganda they are given? Or \"they\" as in NOKD (not\nour kind, dear). Or \"they\" as in an appeal to some audience\nthat is supposed to implicitly know and understand?\n\n\n Read: I do not know what the fuck I'm talking about, and am\nnot eager to make a fool of myself.\n \n\n From a pragmatic standpoint, there certainly is some justification\nif it is a vice people will commit anyway. Shall we criminalize\nalcohol again? If the re-legalization for alcohol were done from\nanything other than the pragmatic standpoint, I'd be happy to hear \nabout it. The fact is that it wasn't.\n\n\n Only the first one make any sense. There is nothing to \"legalize\"\nabout all the rest. Just in case you haven't made the connection \n(which I expect you haven't) the connecting theme in this thread is\na persons autonomy over their life and body. Vice statutes serve\nonly to make it more expensive for the rich and more dangerous\nfor the poor, as Tim so eloquently put it. People will, however,\ntake autonomy over their lives, regardless of what the government\nsays.\n And why, pray tell, is AIDS \"victim\" in snear quotes? Are you of\nthe revisionist sort that thinks there is no such thing as the AIDS\nplauge? Or do they just deserve it?\n-- ", "[In response to some of the discussions on the Sabbath, Andrew Byler\ncommented that if we really followed sola scriptura we would worship\non Saturday -- the change to Sunday was a law made by the Church, and\nwe don't acknowledge its authority to make laws. I noted that\nProtestants do not consider Sunday worship a law. --clh]\n\nHe was not referring to the FAQ but to the five Sabbath Admissions posted\non the bible study group. This is what prompted someone to send the FAQ\nto me.\n\nn> ceremonial law is not binding on Christians.\n\nYou cannot show, from scripture, that the weekly Sabbath is part of the\nceremonial laws. Before you post a text in reply investigate its context.\n\nCan the churches also decide what is and is not sin? Interesting. Where\nthere is no divine imperative of course we must establish rules of\noperation. But we cannot be as creative with what God has explicitly\nspoken on.\n\nDarius", "\nIn NY City, the number to dial is 958... It seems to be different in different\nareas.", "The is a 3-4 week backorder, but they are shipping.\n\n", ": Why does a lead acid battery discharge and become dead (totally unuseable)\n: when stored on a concrete floor? \n\nIt could be that you stored it somewhere that it could become covered\nby moisture or damp air, which would short out the terminals.\n\nThe same thing happens to my car (Citroen 2CV) -- damp gets under the\nbonnet (US: \"hood\") and shorts the spark-plugs to earth so it won't start.\n\nThe solution (for the car) is to clean the plug leads and spray with\nWD-40 (moisture repellant). If damp *is* the problem, then storing the \nbattery off the ground may help. I'm not sure if spraying with WD-40\nwould be safe since it is very flammable (high percentage petroleum).\n\nJust a thought...\n\nChris\n", "\n\tI'm definitely going to write my Congressman, and nobody's ever\ngoing to make me respect a law that violates my freedom of speech, and\nif the feds try to enforce this law on me, I will protect my freedoms, with\nforce if it ever comes to that. (Hopefully, it won't)\n\nDoug Holland\n\n-- ", "K{ \n{\n{ \n{> Many use clips - make sure you use heat sink\n{>grease, or heat transfering tape, or you will have wasted your money.\n{ \n{Do these CPU Fans also have heat sinks? Do you recommend using both\n{on the same chip (i.e. heat sink sandwiched between CPU and Fan)?\n{ \n{If we are just talking about a CPU Fan blowing directly on the CPU chip,\n{I can't see how \"heat sink grease\" is necessary (or even desireable).\n{-- \n{ \n{=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\n{ \n{ Edward McClanahan edm@wrs.com\nI have a PC Power and cooling fan and it is a heat sink with a built in fan \nthat glues on top of the CPU. Even if the fan quits you still have the heat \nsink fins to aid cooling. The glue, of course, is the type that has high \nthermal conductivity.\n\n", " Anybody for carpeting in Bosnia/Serbia? I mean like, carpet bombing\n of Serbian positions?\n", "\n\n\nEvery aircraft has flight constraints for speed/AOA/power. When\ngraphed, these define the 'flight envelope' of that aircraft,\npresumably so named because the graphed line encloses (envelopes) the\narea on the graph that represents conditions where the aircraft\ndoesn't fall out of the sky. Hence, 'pushing the envelope' becomes\n'operating at (or beyond) the edge of the flight (or operational)\nenvelope'. \n\nNote that the envelope isn't precisely known until someone actually\nflies the airplane in those regions -- up to that point, all there are\nare the theoretical predictions. Hence, one of the things test pilots\ndo for a living is 'push the envelope' to find out how close the\ncorrespondence between the paper airplane and the metal one is -- in\nessence, 'pushing back' the edges of the theoretical envelope to where\nthe airplane actually starts to fail to fly. Note, too, that this is\ndone is a quite calculated and careful way; flight tests are generally\ncarefully coreographed and just what is going to be 'pushed' and how\nfar is precisely planned (despite occasional deviations from plans,\nsuch as the 'early' first flight of the F-16 during its high-speed\ntaxi tests).\n\nI'm sure Mary can tell you everything you ever wanted to know about\nthis process (and then some).\n\n-- \n\"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live\n in the real world.\" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden", "Archive-name: cryptography-faq/part03\nLast-modified: 1993/4/15\n\n\nFAQ for sci.crypt, part 3: Basic Cryptology\n\nThis is the third of ten parts of the sci.crypt FAQ. The parts are\nmostly independent, but you should read the first part before the rest.\nWe don't have the time to send out missing parts by mail, so don't ask.\nNotes such as ``[KAH67]'' refer to the reference list in the last part.\n\nThe sections of this FAQ are available via anonymous FTP to rtfm.mit.edu \nas /pub/usenet/news.answers/cryptography-faq/part[xx]. The Cryptography \nFAQ is posted to the newsgroups sci.crypt, sci.answers, and news.answers \nevery 21 days.\n\n\n\nContents:\n\n* What is cryptology? Cryptography? Plaintext? Ciphertext? Encryption? Key?\n* What references can I start with to learn cryptology?\n* How does one go about cryptanalysis?\n* What is a brute-force search and what is its cryptographic relevance?\n* What are some properties satisfied by every strong cryptosystem?\n* If a cryptosystem is theoretically unbreakable, then is it\n guaranteed analysis-proof in practice?\n* Why are many people still using cryptosystems that are\n relatively easy to break?\n\n\n* What is cryptology? Cryptography? Plaintext? Ciphertext? Encryption? Key?\n\n The story begins: When Julius Caesar sent messages to his trusted\n acquaintances, he didn't trust the messengers. So he replaced every A\n by a C, every B by a D, and so on through the alphabet. Only someone\n who knew the ``shift by 2'' rule could decipher his messages.\n\n A cryptosystem or cipher system is a method of disguising messages so\n that only certain people can see through the disguise. Cryptography is\n the art of creating and using cryptosystems. Cryptanalysis is the art\n of breaking cryptosystems---seeing through the disguise even when\n you're not supposed to be able to. Cryptology is the study of both\n cryptography and cryptanalysis.\n\n The original message is called a plaintext. The disguised message is\n called a ciphertext. Encryption means any procedure to convert\n plaintext into ciphertext. Decryption means any procedure to convert\n ciphertext into plaintext.\n\n A cryptosystem is usually a whole collection of algorithms. The\n algorithms are labelled; the labels are called keys. For instance,\n Caesar probably used ``shift by n'' encryption for several different\n values of n. It's natural to say that n is the key here.\n\n The people who are supposed to be able to see through the disguise are\n called recipients. Other people are enemies, opponents, interlopers,\n eavesdroppers, or third parties.\n\n* What references can I start with to learn cryptology?\n\n For an introduction to technical matter, the survey articles given\n in part 10 are the best place to begin as they are, in general,\n concise, authored by competent people, and well written. However,\n these articles are mostly concerned with cryptology as it has\n developed in the last 50 years or so, and are more abstract and\n mathematical than historical. The Codebreakers by Kahn [KAH67] is\n encyclopedic in its history and technical detail of cryptology up\n to the mid-60's.\n\n Introductory cryptanalysis can be learned from Gaines [GAI44] or\n Sinkov [SIN66]. This is recommended especially for people who want\n to devise their own encryption algorithms since it is a common\n mistake to try to make a system before knowing how to break one.\n\n The selection of an algorithm for the DES drew the attention of\n many public researchers to problems in cryptology. Consequently\n several textbooks and books to serve as texts have appeared. The\n book of Denning [DEN82] gives a good introduction to a broad range\n of security including encryption algorithms, database security,\n access control, and formal models of security. Similar comments\n apply to the books of Price & Davies [PRI84] and Pfleeger [PFL89].\n\n The books of Konheim [KON81] and Meyer & Matyas [MEY82] are quite\n technical books. Both Konheim and Meyer were directly involved in\n the development of DES, and both books give a thorough analysis of\n DES. Konheim's book is quite mathematical, with detailed analyses\n of many classical cryptosystems. Meyer and Matyas concentrate on\n modern cryptographic methods, especially pertaining to key management\n and the integration of security facilities into computer systems and\n networks.\n\n The books of Rueppel [RUE86] and Koblitz [KOB89] concentrate on\n the application of number theory and algebra to cryptography.\n\n* How does one go about cryptanalysis?\n\n Classical cryptanalysis involves an interesting combination of\n analytical reasoning, application of mathematical tools, pattern\n finding, patience, determination, and luck. The best available\n textbooks on the subject are the Military Cryptanalytics series\n [FRIE1]. It is clear that proficiency in cryptanalysis is, for\n the most part, gained through the attempted solution of given\n systems. Such experience is considered so valuable that some of the\n cryptanalyses performed during WWII by the Allies are still\n classified.\n\n Modern public-key cryptanalysis may consist of factoring an integer,\n or taking a discrete logarithm. These are not the traditional fare\n of the cryptanalyst. Computational number theorists are some of the\n most successful cryptanalysts against public key systems.\n\n* What is a brute-force search and what is its cryptographic relevance?\n\n In a nutshell: If f(x) = y and you know y and can compute f, you can\n find x by trying every possible x. That's brute-force search.\n\n Example: Say a cryptanalyst has found a plaintext and a corresponding\n ciphertext, but doesn't know the key. He can simply try encrypting the\n plaintext using each possible key, until the ciphertext matches---or\n decrypting the ciphertext to match the plaintext, whichever is faster.\n Every well-designed cryptosystem has such a large key space that this\n brute-force search is impractical.\n \n Advances in technology sometimes change what is considered\n practical. For example, DES, which has been in use for over 10 years\n now, has 2^56, or about 10^17, possible keys. A computation with\n this many operations was certainly unlikely for most users in the\n mid-70's. The situation is very different today given the dramatic\n decrease in cost per processor operation. Massively parallel\n machines threaten the security of DES against brute force search.\n Some scenarios are described by Garron and Outerbridge [GAR91].\n\n One phase of a more sophisticated cryptanalysis may involve a\n brute-force search of some manageably small space of possibilities.\n\n* What are some properties satisfied by every strong cryptosystem?\n\n The security of a strong system resides with the secrecy of the key\n rather than with an attempt to keep the algorithm itself secret.\n\n A strong cryptosystem has a large keyspace, as mentioned above. The\n unicity distance is a measure which gives the minimum amount of\n ciphertext that must be intercepted to uniquely identify the key and\n if for some key, the unicity distance is much longer than the amount\n of ciphertext you intend to encrypt under that key, the system is\n probably strong.\n\n A strong cryptosystem will certainly produce ciphertext which appears\n random to all standard statistical tests (see, for example, [CAE90]).\n \n A strong cryptosystem will resist all known previous attacks. A\n system which has never been subjected to scrutiny is suspect.\n\n If a system passes all the tests mentioned above, is it necessarily\n strong? Certainly not. Many weak cryptosystems looked good at first.\n However, sometimes it is possible to show that a cryptosystem is\n strong by mathematical proof. ``If Joe can break this system, then\n he can also solve the well-known difficult problem of factoring\n integers.'' See part 6. Failing that, it's a crap shoot.\n\n* If a cryptosystem is theoretically unbreakable, then is it\n guaranteed analysis-proof in practice?\n\n Cryptanalytic methods include what is known as ``practical\n cryptanalysis'': the enemy doesn't have to just stare at your\n ciphertext until he figures out the plaintext. For instance, he might\n assume ``cribs''---stretches of probable plaintext. If the crib is\n correct then he might be able to deduce the key and then decipher the\n rest of the message. Or he might exploit ``isologs''---the same\n plaintext enciphered in several cryptosystems or several keys. Thus\n he might obtain solutions even when cryptanalytic theory says he\n doesn't have a chance.\n\n Sometimes, cryptosystems malfunction or are misused. The one-time pad,\n for example, loses all security if it is used more than once! Even\n chosen-plaintext attacks, where the enemy somehow feeds plaintext into\n the encryptor until he can deduce the key, have been employed. See\n [KAH67].\n \n* Why are many people still using cryptosystems that are\n relatively easy to break?", "\n\nSo how much would it cost as a private venture, assuming you could talk the\nU.S. government into leasing you a couple of pads in Florida? \n\n", "\n\n\nI didn't say to visit some \"nice\" homosexuals. I said \"visit some congregations\nof Christians..spirit-filled believers..\"\n\n\nPraise the Lord that we are all members of the same body. Let us agree to\ndisagree.", "-- \nDouglas C. Meier\t\t| You can't play Electro-magnetic Golf\nNorthwestern University, ACNS \t| according to the rules of Centrifugal\nThis University is too Commie-\t| Bumblepuppy. -Huxley, Brave New World\nLib Pinko to have these views.\t| dmeier@casbah.acns.nwu.edu\n", "speaking of the sick bastard, i noticed he attends Kent State University.\n \ni guess we have come full circle here. Someone from Kent favoring excessive\nforce by the govenment to subdue polically incorrect thinking.", "\nIn the case of victimless crimes yes, I think so.\n\nThink about it. If I rob or beat up or rape or kill someone, it's very\nclear to anyone not a sociopath that I've done something immoral. On the\nother hand, if I smoke grass or have sex with a consenting adult in a\nmanner illegal in that state, the morality or immorality of that act is\nmerely a lifestyle choice; it doesn;t clearly hurt anyone else. IMO, if\nsuch an act doesn;t hurt another person it should not be interfered with.\n\n\nI think so. And I don't use drugs, outside of the legal ones (alcohol\nand coffee).", "\n\nWow, you're quicker to point out heresy than the Church in the\nMiddle ages. Seriously though, even the Sheiks at Al-Azhar don't\nclaim that the Shi'ites are heretics. Most of the accusations\nand fabrications about Shi'ites come out of Saudi Arabia from the\nWahabis. For that matter you should read the original works of\nthe Sunni Imams (Imams of the four madhabs). The teacher of\nat least two of them was Imam Jafar Sadiq (the sixth Imam of the\nShi'ites). ", "\nYes, absolutely, though I'd make the observation in a more general sense of\nall observations are made by human beings and therefore made with various\nbiases. \n\nBut here your message leaves talk of hypothesis and gets back, once again, \nto equating the business of science with the end result, the gizmo produced.\n\n\nMy point isn't so much whether or not you have a novel paradigm but *how* \nyou come about developing it.\n\n\nPerhaps you'd admit that this is an oversimplification on your part (the topic\nof the philosophy of science is made for them, I'm making them too) but I\nthink that it also summarizes popular misconceptions of science and the \nbusiness of doing science. Biomedical research doesn't make any basic \nassumptions that aren't the same as any other discipline of scientific\nresearch. That is, that you make empirical observations, form an hypothesis\nand test it. Modern medicine has much more to do with biochemistry than \n\"the old Newtonian model of the world\". And I doubt that many psychologists\nwould appreciate being put outside this empirical \"world view\". Psychology\nalso has more to do with biochemistry than spoon bending. \n\n\nOversimplified, of course, but a good example. This is an empirical observa-\ntion. It was then tested, though perhaps not by Aristotle, and eventually \nfound wanting. In the meantime, some folk will \nhave continued to believe in the spontaneous generation of animal life. \nThere's nothing at all surprising about this, it's the way the gathering of\nknowledge works. There are probably more than a few things in my own \ndiscipline of molecular biology that will be found to be totally off-base,\neven idiotic, to someone in the future. These future people won't have come\nto these relevations because they had suddenly gone all Zen-like and had \na vision in an LSD trip. Someone will have thought of something new and \ntested it. This is the bit that people who seem to relish misrepresenting\nscience and research can't seem to wrap their minds around. Science is a \ncreative process. What I think of as factual and good research can be totally\nturned on its head tommorrow by new results and theories. ", "\n\n\nWhat does this from NORWAY think he's doing telling us\nhow to run the place? I wanna know... somebody please 'splain.\n\nGuess how NORWAY survived the Third Reich? Give you a hint,\nit wasn't by passive resistance the way the Danes did it....", "\nThe obsession with discussions of past (or present) events seems to be\nlargely centered on trying to \"prove\" that \"they\" are worse than \"us\".\nAs we see over and over, that leads nowhere except to make ourselves\nfeel superior. It's as if we've become addicted to periodic injections\nof \"self-affirmation\" that draw their power from denigration of the\n\"other\" and romanticization of ourselves. The hope is that we will begin \nsometime to apply these discussions in some way towards consideration of \nhow to defuse the situation, advancement of negotiations and the search \nfor common ground between the parties involved.\n \nOf course, for this to happen we can't believe that the best path to \n*making ourselves feel better* is at the expense of others. As long as \nthose valuing the coming together of \"opposing\" parties do not pursue \ntheir vision with the same passion as do those polarization specialists, \nwe will stay stuck in the circus of one-upsmanship we now have. We're\ngetting precisely what we are willing to work for.", "\n\n\tThe Libertarians believe in getting the government off the\nbacks of the people, so that the free market can solve problems.\n\n\tLibertarians believe in an end to the welfare state, an end to\ngovernment subsidies of all sorts. The basic idea is that the\ngovernment is way too big and way too expensive, and should be shrunk\ndown to a reasonable size.\n\n\tThey also believe in a complete end to foreign aid, including\nthe stationing of American troops overseas. We can not and should not\nbe policing the world.\n\n\n\tI agree that the people who come into this group and describe\nthemselves as Libertarians seem to posses the charictaristics you\ndescribe, but heck, we're not all like this. I'm a libertarian, and\nI've got a great sense of humor! :)\n\nAdam\n\n\nAdam Shostack \t\t\t\t adam@das.harvard.edu", "[ ... ]\n\nThis, BTW, is normal behavior for newsie's. The followup isn't \"news\" ...", "\n\tAt the risk of starting the 'my gun is better than yours' flame\nwar, I must disagree.\n\t\n\tThere is no secret in handling a Glock. In fact, it is often\nchosen (besides its other merits) because it shoots like a revolver does\nbasically. It can limit the training time (read budget $$$) due to the\nfact there are no 'external' safties other than the trigger, hence less\ntraining time required. \n\n\tSmith & Wesson (among other types) are chosen due to the fact taht\nthey do have the external safties (hammer drop,as well as mag drop) which\nif properly used have saved many lives when 'Mr. Bad' snatched the gun\nfrom the officer and tried to shoot said officer the gun was on safe and\nwould not fire. This point had been made in many articles in various \ngun magazines. If fact, one author (can't remember who) staged a little\ntest where he had a revolver and a S&W on safe laying on a table and asked\npeople with little firearms experience to on his signal, grab the gun and\nshoot a target. He timed the people using each gun. The revolver times\nwere pretty close, but some of the times with the S&W were in minutes, or\nthe person just gave up because they could not figure out the saftey.\n\n\tYou don't often see Colt 45 autos issued due to the light trigger\nwhich can be accidentally fired in a stress situation, opening the issuing\ncity,county, etc.. to lawsuits, bad press, etc..\n\n\tOf course any problem can be overcome with enough training, but\nsuch training is not always available to budget crunched departments. I\nknow if I were a Cop I would want something like a S&W just for the off\nchance of the gun getting taken away. The safety doesn't guarantee that\n'Mr. Bad' won't figure it out and shoot me, but it could buy enough time\nto draw a second gun and shoot 'Mr. Bad' before it's too late.\n\n\tDon't think I am too biassed here just because I have had 3 Glocks\nin my possession at one time, because I have had a .45 as well. In fact,\nit was my first handgun. Remember, the ultimate 'safety' is YOU the\noperator, and no safety is going to stop an negligent discharge (note I\ndon't say accidental) if you break the rules of gun handling.\n\n\tAs per the part of being light weight and looking cool, I agree\n100%. I wouldn't rule it out as a first purchase. ", "\n\nCould you use some sort of mechanical chest compression as an aid.\nSorta like the portable Iron Lung? Put some sort of flex tubing\naround the 'aquanauts' chest. Cyclically compress it and it will\npush enough on the chest wall to support breathing?????\n\nYou'd have to trust your breather, but in space, you have to trust\nyour suit anyway.", "\nWe all know this will never happen. Because the Police are under the wings\nof Government, they will always be considered more important than Citizens.\n\nGovernment pens, pencils and paper are considered more important than\nCitizens.", "Ack! Sorry for the repeat posts: I thought I was posting to the newsgroup\non which this appeared. Couldn't figure out why it wasn't appearing in\nmy newsgroup. Stupid of me. Slap my hands. Bang my head against the wall.\nSorry! Bloody public anouncements...mumble mumble mumble...\n============================================================================\nDavid Matthew Deane (deane@binah.cc.brandeis.edu)", "Ok, here goes. Yes folks, I realize I have stuck my foot in my mouth\nquite a few times already so please let me make some clarifications. My\ninaccurate information in my posts was due to lack of knowledge. Thanks\nto you kind (and some not so kind) people I am learning. Some people\nhave given me several good points to ponder and I see how I was wrong.\nIn no way was this inaccurate information supposed to be trying to\nfurther the anti-gun cause. I have said several times before (but\nnobody seemed to be listening) that I am pro-gun and anti-gun-control.\n\nAs far as the race can of worms that I have opened up I have only one\nthing to say - I am in no way prejudiced. Some of the things I have\nstated were said to demonstrate that I am not prejudiced and/or a racist\nbut I have been accused of being too aware of race and prejudiced. I will not\nsay anymore about that subject because no matter what I say it will be the\nwrong thing.\n\nBoy, what a start to being on a new group. Oh well, things have been\nworse in my life.\n\nI hope this clears things up but I guess that will remain to be seen.\n\nBy for now,", "\n\n\nYou should read the history. It was Hoover who stopped Nixon's COINTELPRO\ndead in its tracks because he said it was unconstitutional. They tried to\nget around him every way they could.\n\nDespite other things he may have done, for this alone, Hoover saved the\nConstitution.\n\nDavid\n", "\nimpertinent stuff deleted\n\nThere you go again, you edu-breath poser! \"University-ness\" indeed!\nLeave that stuff to us professionals.", "This article was probably generated by a buggy news reader.\n", "Chemical weapons are not concidered a *very* effectiv weapon against\nmillitary forces. On civillians on the other hand....\n\nThat's one GOOD reason for banning it.\n\nYou need VAST amounts of chemicals to be affective, so the best reason\nto have/use it is price. (that's why it's called The Poor Mans A-bomb)\n\nAny thoughts on Bio-weapons ??\t\n\nIf this discusion is about civillians having chem-weapons;\nWhat should they use them on?? Rob a bank ??\n\n\n\n\tThis is not a .signature.\n\tIt's merely a computergenerated text to waste bandwith\n\tand to bring down the evil Internet.\n", ": While not exactly a service incident, I had a similar experience recently \n: when I bought a new truck.\n: I had picked out the vehicle I wanted and after a little haggling we \n: agreed on a price. I wrote them a check for the down payment plus tax\n: and license and told them I'd be back that evening to pick up the truck. \n: When I returned, I had to wait about an hour before the finance guy could \n: get to me. When I finally got in there, everything went smoothly until he \n: started adding up the numbers. He then discovered that they had \n: miscalculated the tax & license by about $150. He then said he needed \n: another $150 from me. I said we had already agreed on a price and it was \n: their problem, I wasn't giving them any more money. The finance guy then \n\nA similar thing happend to me a year ago. I bought a used Ford Bronco\n(which has since been stolen... :( ) and few weeks after I paid\nand took delivery, they sent a letter telling me they goofed and \nmiscalculated the license renewal by $300 and that I need to send\nin a check to \"avoid further delay\" in the processing of my registration.\nThe thing is, I had already received the pink slip from the DMV, so\nI ignored it. I received another letter and then the phone calls\nstarted coming. First from the finance guy and then from the general\nmanager, both hounding me for the extra money. They left me alone\nonce I told them I already had the paperwork and pointed out the clause\nin the contract that stated that the final price was just that: FINAL.\nAfterall, they wouldn't budge if I had told them I wanted another\n$300 off after the deal had been signed, right? I told them not \nto call again and that I would not do business with them in the future.\nThey didn't seem to have a problem with that. This, after all, was a\nused Ford at a Toyota dealership.\n\nI had a much better experience buying a new Pathfinder about a month\nago. It certainly pays to buy a car on the last Sunday of the month.\nIt was even raining too, so they had done very little business that \nweekend and were really willing to deal. I kept telling them I would\nthink about it, and they kept dropping the price. Got a very good\ndeal and so far have been very please with the service.", "THE WHITE HOUSE\n\n Office of the Press Secretary\n_________________________________________________________________\nFor Immediate Release April 14, 1993 \n\n\t \n REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT\n AT SUMMER JOBS CONFERENCE\n\n\t \t \n Hyatt Regency\n Crystal City, Virginia \n\n\n11:22 A.M. EDT\n\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: Thank you very much. The speech that \nOctavius gave says more than anything I will be able to say today \nabout why it's important to give all of our young people a chance to \nget a work experience and to continue to learn, to merge the nature \nof learning and work; why it's important to honor the efforts of \npeople like Jerry Levin and Nancye Combs and Pat Irving and all of \nthose who are here. \n\t \n\t I want to thank the Secretaries of Labor and Education \nand all the people who work with them for sponsoring this; and my \ngood friend, Governor Wilder, for being here and for speaking; and \nall of the business and local community leaders from the city and \ncounty and state level from around America who are here. \n\t \n\t This has been a pretty fun day. (Laughter.) I loved \nhearing the young people sing. It was music to my ears because it is \ntheir future that we are really struggling about. (Applause.) A \nyear and a half ago I began the quest to seek the presidency because \nI was concerned about their future. Because I believe that our \ncountry, which had always been a beacon of hope for the young, had \ntoo little opportunity, was too divided among ourselves across lines \nof income and race and region and other ways, without a vision to \ntake us into the future. \n\t \n\t I entered with the hope that together we could create \nmore opportunity and insist on much more responsibility from all of \nour people. But in the process we might recreate the best of \nAmerica's community, knowing that together we could always to more \nthan we could individually and that we might secure our future.\n\t \n\t All of you here today are committed to that. The 1,000 \njobs that Jerry Levin has committed Time-Warner to is symbolic of the \ncommitments made by many of the private sector people who are here, \nand those who are around the country. The work that Nancye Combs \ndoes, and the successes of all the young people like those on this \nstage, and especially the eloquent statement Octavius Jeffers -- all \nthose things show that together we know what we need to do, and we're \non the right track.\n\t \n\t Last July when I was traveling across America's \nheartland in my luxurious bus, I visited Seneca High School in \nLouisville, Kentucky. And there I met young people and business \npeople who were participating in the Louisville Education and \nEmployment Partnership. I saw what Nancye Combs talked about today. \nI saw how the young people were making an extra effort to succeed \nboth in school and at work. I saw, as I have seen many times in my \nown state, the principle illustrated that Octavius has talked about \n-- that for millions of American young people it is really an \nimpediment to both their learning and their ability to be good \nworkers to draw a sharp dividing line between what is work and what \nis learning.\n\t \n\t In the world in which we are living, the average young \nperson will change the nature of work seven or eight times in a \nlifetime. We must learn to merge the work world and the learning \nworld much better. And we must determine that all of our young \npeople see the opportunities that some of them have had showcased \nhere today. \n\t \n\t Whether you're in business or in government or in \neducation, you know that we have a big job to do when it comes to \nbuilding a future that really, honestly includes opportunity for all \nof our people. There are still a lot of people who say, well, things \nare pretty good here in Washington and everything's fine; the best \nthing we can do about this whole thing is nothing. They all have \njobs. (Laughter.) All the people who say that. (Applause.) \n\t \n\t They all have health insurance. They all have a pretty \ngood education. And they all have a pretty secure knowledge that \nthey'll be okay no matter what happens. I say that not to be either \npolitical or unduly critical, but to point out that one of the great \nchallenges of this age for every advanced nation -- everyone -- is to \nfully develop the capacities of all of its people, and then find work \nfor them to do.\n\t \n\t All the European countries have higher unemployment \nrates than we do, but also stronger support systems for the \nunemployed. The Japanese unemployment rate has been going up. \nThey're going to adopt a stimulus that, even if you count it in its \nmost rigorous terms, is three or four times bigger than the one that \nI have proposed to create jobs. \n\t \n\t In West Germany alone, the unemployment rate is now \nabout as high as ours. This is a big problem for advanced nations. \nIt costs a lot of money to add an extra employee, with a lot of \npressure from low-wage producers in other countries that are growing \ntheir own economies and trying to provide new opportunity for their \npeople. \n\t \n\t But it is especially important for America for two \nreasons: One is, we have a whole lot of folks who, unless we move \naggressively, will not have the education and skills we need to be \ncompetitive and productive in a nation like this. The second is, \neven if we educate them all, if there aren't jobs they will be robbed \nof the fruits of their educational labors. People need to be able to \nwork in this country. (Applause.)\n\t \n\t We have always had some unemployment; and, indeed, some \nof it is normal. You've always got some people leaving jobs and \nmoving around the country and doing first one thing and another. We \nhave now, at this moment in our history, the necessity for all big \norganizations, including the government, to reexamine the way they \nare organized and who ask whether there are too many people working \nat some kinds of jobs. But in the whole, we must still be able to \ncreate jobs in a country like America, to provide people with the \nchance to work. \n\t \n\t It's going to be difficult for me to make the welfare \nreform proposals that I will make to Congress in the next couple of \nmonths -- it's going to be hard for me to make those work if, at the \nend of all this work, to get off welfare there isn't a job. \n(Applause.)\n\t \n\t So we have two tasks. One is to develop the capacity of \nthe American people to perform without regard to race or income or \nthe circumstances of their birth. The other is to make sure that \nthere are some opportunities for them to bring to bear for their \ntalent and to be rewarded with a paycheck. It is a great challenge. \nI do not pretend that all of the answers are simple. But I know if \nyou want to ask the American people, all of them, to be more \nresponsible, if you want to recreate a sense of community in this \ncountry that bridges the lines of race and income and region, you \nhave got to have opportunity in that mix. \n\t \n\t A part of our vision for America has to be a future for \nevery young person in this country who's willing to play by the rules \nand work hard and strive for the end of the rainbow. There has to be \nsomething at the end of that rainbow. And that is what we are \nbasically here to talk about today: What can we all do as partners, \nrecognizing none of us can do it alone, to develop the capacities of \nour people to succeed wherever they live and whatever their \nbackground. And then, what can we do to make sure that there's \nsomething there for them to do?\n\n\t The summer jobs program we're discussing today is an \nintegral part of that plan, because it will promote the values of \nwork and opportunity and fairness, community. It will put the people \nfirst, and it does have a partnership between the public and private \nsector.\n\t \n\t I said when I addressed the United States Congress in \nFebruary on this program that I would seek to create about 700,000 \nextra summer jobs from government sources and then challenge the \nAmerican business community to meet that target so that we can create \nmore than a million new summer jobs over and above what had been \ncreated before.\n\t \n\t Many, many people have responded to that challenge. And \nJerry is just a shining example of that which has been replicated in \nthis room and around the country -- people who are going to do more \nthan they otherwise would in the private sector to give young people \na work experience. And it is terribly important.\n\t \n\t I want to emphasize that this summer jobs program is \npart of an overall commitment to increase the capacity of the \nAmerican people -- from retraining defense workers who lose their \njobs and other adults who need to acquire new skills; to improving \nthe transition from school to work for young people who don't go to \ncollege but do need at least two years of post-high school training \neither on the job or in a community college or a vocational setting, \nso that they can be competitive workers, making it possible for more \npeople to go on to college who do want to go.\n\t \n\t All these things are part and parcel of a comprehensive \nplan. It's also important, as I said, that we create more jobs. The \nemergency jobs program that I asked the Congress to adopt would \ncreate a half a million extra jobs over the next year and a half, and \nthat would reduce the unemployment rate by a half a percent. It \nwould also enable us to absorb more young people coming into the work \nforce in jobs that otherwise will not be created.\n\t \n\t It also will help a lot of cities and counties to \ninvest in things that need to be done at the grass-roots level --\nprojects long delayed, water projects, sewer projects, park projects, \nnew industries and particularly in small and medium-size communities \n-- a whole range of things that will improve the economy and improve \nthe environment. \n\t \n\t The summer jobs program is an important part of that \nbecause we have tried for the first time, through the work of the \nLabor Department and the Education Department and through reaching \nout to people like you, to make this more than just a one-shot summer \njobs program; to integrate it with private sector efforts; to \nhopefully replicate it in each coming summer; to move these young \npeople into further educational opportunities and to further job \nopportunities; and to have a strong, meaningful education component \nto these summer jobs -- something that the United States government \nhas never fully emphasized before. \n\t \n\t A lot of these young people, as you well know, because \nthey come from difficult backgrounds, because they go to school in \ndifficult and challenging circumstances, need extra help in building \ntheir basic skills in math and language, reasoning and in other \nareas. And a lot of educational studies show that young people who \nhave difficulty in school often forget as much as 30 percent of what \nthey learn over the summer and then that has to be repeated the next \nyear. \n\t \n\t What we are trying to do here is to give people the \nopportunity to learn good work habits and to reinforce their learning \nskills and to put them together; and then, hopefully, over the next \ncouple of years, if our entire program passes, to give every school \nin this country the opportunity to have a good work and learning \nenvironment. \n\t \n\t There will be more applied academics, more opportunities \nfor people to learn and work during the school year, so that this \nwill not simply be an isolated moment for these young folks, but will \nbe a part of building a whole new educational experience, a whole new \nwork experience, and moving on a pathway to a better future.\n\t \n\t The summer jobs programs are not designed to be make-\nwork jobs. They're designed to make a future for the people holding \nthe job. And that's what they will do. In the process, they'll help \nto build local communities, to strengthen local economies, to solve \nlocal problems. Real jobs -- renovating housing, repairing public \nbuildings, doing clerical work, providing nursing assistance in \nhospitals, supervising and training children at child care centers, \nand learning all the way. Challenging young people to learn while \nthey earn, but letting them earn.\n\t \n\t You know, it's very difficult to make a case to people \nwho have never seen opportunity on their own street that they should \ndo this, that, or the other thing if there's no evidence of the \nopportunity that's at the end of the effort. I have not been sparing \nin going for the last year-and-a-half into places where it isn't \nexactly popular to say it, and say I wanted to reform the welfare \nsystem; I wanted to toughen child support; I wanted to require people \nto work; I was sick and tired of people being irresponsible in the \nuse of guns on the streets, and I wanted to change all that. But if \nyou're going to summon people to greater responsibility, you have to \nreward them when they do the right thing with opportunity. \n(Applause.)\n\t \n\t The young people we propose to put to work under our \nprogram will spend 90 hours learning basic skills, such as math, \nreading, writing -- either on the job in the classroom. They will \nstretch their minds as well as work up a sweat. They will have a \nsense of accomplishment. It will literally be a summer challenge, \nbut a challenge that will take them into a different life.\n\t \n\t So I want to ask all of you to support this effort even \nas I, as your President, support your effort. At the end of the \nsummer we will evaluate all the young people who participate. We'll \nsee whether they, instead of falling behind over the summer \nacademically as too many young people do, they stayed even or moved \nahead. I suspect that they will. \n\t \n\t This summer, Secretary Reich and Secretary Riley and I \nwill be visiting many of your communities. We'll really try to learn \nfrom you which of these efforts are working, what we should do next \nsummer, how we can build it in to what goes on during the school \nyear, how we can build in our job training efforts and the works that \nwe do with your companies to make sense of this whole thing -- so \nthat we maximize the impact of the taxpayer dollar and your private \ninvestments as well. \n\t \n\t We want to honor the companies and the communities, the \nbusiness leaders and the young people who do the very best jobs this \nsummer. And, again, I want to say to all of you in private business \nwho have matched our effort, I thank you. And to all of you who \nhaven't, and those across the country who may listen or learn about \nthis event today, I want to implore other private employers to \nstretch a little bit to give other young people a chance to work this \nsummer. I'm telling you, we cannot go through another 10 years when \nwe don't give these children anything to say yes to. If we exhort \nthem to do right, we've got to be able to reward them. (Applause.)\n\t \n\t When the other speakers were talking, I was sitting up \nhere on the platform, listening and reveling. And they got talking \nabout work, and I got to thinking about all the different things I've \ndone to make a living in my life. When I was 13, I made a very \nfoolish short-term business investment: I set up a comic book stand \nand sold two trunks full of comic books. Made more money than I had \never had in my life. But if I had saved those trunks, they'd be \nworth $100,000 today. (Laughter.)\n\t \n\t That does not mean young people should not be \nentrepreneurial. It just means that you can't foresee a generation \nahead. I have mowed yards and cleared land and built houses and \nworked in body shops and the parts departments of a car dealership. \nAnd I've done a lot of different things for a living. Some \npeople say I got into politics to escape work. (Laughter.) \n\t \n\t I learned something from every job I ever had. But I \ngrew up in a generation where I literally did not know a living soul \nwithout regard to race or income who wanted to work who didn't have a \njob. I grew up in a generation when all you had to really say to \npeople is, get an education and you'll be all right. You'll get a \njob and you'll make more money next year than you did this year. Now \nI live in a generation full of people, most of whom don't make any \nmore money in real dollars than they did 10 years ago and they're \nworking longer hours and they're paying more for the basics of life. \nAnd we are now wondering whether we can create the jobs that these \nyoung people want.\n\t \n\t Now, I want to close by reemphasizing these two things: \nIt doesn't matter what kind of economic policies this administration \npursues, or how much productivity increases there are in the private \nsector, if young Americans don't get a good education, don't learn \nhow to work and can't be productive, those jobs will not be created \nin this country. Machines will do the work or the work will be done \noff-shore by people who have the same skill levels and can work for a \nthird or a fourth or a fifth the wages. So nothing we can do \neconomically will matter unless we build the skills and capacities of \nAmerica's work force. And anybody that pretends otherwise is just \nkidding. \n\t \n\t On the other hand, we need to be honest. Every wealthy \ncountry in the world, including the United States, is having \ndifficulty creating jobs. If I knew everything that needs to be done \nI'd be glad to tell you and we could just call off the whole \ndeliberations of Congress and everything else. I don't have all the \nanswers. But I know this: Doing nothing is not the answer. \n(Applause.)\n\t \n\t And so the jobs program that I have presented to \nCongress, with the summer jobs, with the money for the cities and the \ncounties, through the Community Development Program, with the \ninfrastructure money, is a small part of a big budget. It is an \nattempt to engage in an experiment to see whether or not, with the \neconomy recovering in terms of corporate profit, we can give a little \nboost to it, give opportunities to young people, create a half a \nmillion jobs and maybe get the engine going again.\n\t \n\t Most of the jobs in this program are going to be jobs in \nthe private sector, not government jobs, even though it's government \nmoney. And the lion's share of the work in rebuilding the American \neconomy obviously will come from the private sector. That's the kind \nof system we have and it works pretty well. \n\t \n\t But this is the challenge we have. So I ask all of you \nhere today to support the summer jobs program, to ask your friends \nand neighbors to support it, to go back home and ask your employers \nto make a little extra effort; to do what you can to help me pass the \nfunds to create the 700,000 jobs that the United States government \nshould create this summer, so that together we can have this \npartnership. Because more than anything else, we have to give a \nfuture -- a future that our young people can believe in. \n\t \n\t We need to send them a message that here in America if \nyou study hard and work hard, if you obey the law and contribute \nsomething to your community, you will be rewarded by your country. \nYou can build a future from you own dreams. \n\t \n\t That has always been the promise of America. Together \nthat's what this summer of challenge needs to be: a reaffirmation of \nthe promise of America for so many young people to whom that promise \nhas been an illusion. We can make it a reality.\n\t \n\t Thank you very much. (Applause.)", "Petri and Mathew,\n\nYour discusion on the \"reality\" of atoms is interesting, but it\nwould seem that you are verging on the question \"Is anything real\":\nthat is, since observation is not 100% reliable, how can we say\nthat anything is \"real\". I don't think this was the intention\nof the original question, since you now define-out the word\n\"real\" so that nothing can meet its criteria.\nJust a thought.\n\nBrian /-|-\\", " ... an amazing illustration of disconnection from reality.\n\nGlad to see that you agree that the current Government is reticent\nabout admitting the sovereignty of the people! Speaking from personal\nexperience, I have had judges illegally assume jurisdiction even after\nI demanded that the DA prove such jurisdiction on the record, and the\nDA stood mute. I have also had an appellate court uphold such action\nand hide behind California Rules of Court, Rule 106 (\"The judges of\nthe appellate department shall not be required to write opinions in\nany cases decided by them, but may do so whenever they deem it\nadvisable or in the public interest.\"). That is reality, I agree.\n\n\n\n", "Sayeth sjwyrick@lbl.gov (Steve Wyrick):\n$Anybody keeping track of how many of these there are? So far I have\n$Miata, Tredia, Previa, Sentra, Maxima, Altima, Camry, and Justy, not to\n$mention Lexus, Acura and Infiniti! \n\n You're apparently including names that are, or appear to be,\nderivatives of real words in English or some other language (e.g.\nAcura, Infiniti, Maxima, Altima), in which case you missed ones such\nas Integra, Supra, Allante', Capri and Calibra. In Canada, add Serenia and\nPrecidia. If you count misspellings, add Protege and (in Canada)\nVigor. How about the forthcoming Mondeo, if it is given that name\nin North America?\n\n Others might include Celica, Corolla, Paseo, and Tercel. In Canada,\nadd Asu\"na.", "\tLots of house fires give off black sooty smoke. And as far as\n\tthe speed of the fire the winds were gusting to 30mph at least\n\tthat day. I guess you're forgetting the way Oakland and Berkeley\n\tlooked back in 91. Did those folks use accelerants?\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\tsmg\n\n\t\n\n", "\n\tWould you please define \"nth derivative of debt\"? Last time I asked\nyou seem to have disappeared....\n\n\tAnd it's the deficits themselves that came down to 2.9% of GNP. The\nnumbers are posted in the previous posting.\n\n\n\tCute, Paul, but with no numbers you still look foolish.\n\n\n\tPaul, like many others, is confusing the deficit with the debt.\n\n\n\tNot in terms of GNP, the one universally accepted measure of deficits\n(at least among rigorous economists :)\n\n...\n\n\tSemantics. Lindsey proves otherwise. Taxes make people change their\neconomic activities.\n\tOr shall we debate whether it is the gun, the bullet, or the person who\ndoes the killing?\n\n\n\tOr whether this gentleman can win the same praise as Lindsey. :)", "\n\nDid I claim that there was an absolute morality, or just an objective one?", "\n\n\nI agree entirely. Speaking as an atheist (heterosexual, for what it's\nworth), this is one of the least attractive parts of some varieties of\nChristianity. Although I'm sure it's possible to argue theologically\nthat we shouldn't make analogies between discrimination on the basis\nof sex and race and discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation,\nmorally the case looks unanswerable (for those outside religion): the\nthree forms _are_ analogous; we shouldn't discriminate on the basis of\nsex, race or sexual orientation.\n\nI found the moderator's FAQs on the subject instructive, and recommend\neveryone to read them.\n\nThere seem to be three different levels of acceptance:\n\n1) Regard homosexual orientation as a sin (or evil, whatever)\n2) Regard homosexual behaviour as a sin, but accept orientation\n(though presumably orientation is unfortunate) and dislike people who\nindulge\n3) As 2, but \"love the sinner\"\n4) Accept homosexuality altogether.\n\nMy experience is that 3 is the most common attitude (I imagine 1 and 2\nare limited to a few fundamentalist sects).\n\nI suppose I can go along with 3, except that I have this feeling that\na 14--15 year old living in a community with this attitude, on\ndiscovering that they were more attracted to members of the same sex,\nwould not feel the love of the community, but would rather feel the\npressure not to exhibit their feelings. I'm not saying that the\ncommunity (in particular the parents) would not love the child, but I\nsuspect the child would not feel loved.", "\nk\nSorry ... should have used correct terminology\n\n1 Quid = 1 Knicker = 1.54 approx U.S. Dollars \n\nThe Terry Pratchett Book \"Good Omens\" contains an adequate explanation\nof the rather strange UK money system, past and present for \"Americans, \nTibetans, and other alien species\" :-)", "Newsgroup: sci.electronics\nFrom: martin.vuille@synapse.org\nSubject: Electronic Design\n\nDoes anyone know the telephone number for the circulation department\nof 'Electronic Design' magazine?\n\nMV", "Organization: Compact Solutions, Canberra ACT Australia\n\n > This may be a very naive question but is there any\n > basis for the\n > claim that a CPU will get hotter when a\n > computationally intensive\n > job is running? My friend claims that there will be\n > little difference\n > in the temperature of an idle CPU and a CPU running a\n > computationally\n > intensive job.\n\nFrom what I've seen in coursework, most CPUs never actually\n\"idle\". They will continue to service interrupts, etc.,\netc. The clock will always be running at n Mhz no matter\nwhat it's doing.\n\nI suppose depending on the instruction, the CPU may use\ncircuitry which has more transistors than other\ninstructions, but if you consider the additional heat\ngenerated by only a handful of additional, tiny resistors\nand then spread that heat dissipation over the CPU's\npackaging, the change in temperature to the immediate\nenvironment (ie. the surface of the package) will be\nnegligible.\n\nCheers, Ben\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nBen J. Elliston\nBachelor of Engineering (Computer Engineering) \\\\\\//\nUniversity of Canberra (@ @)\n ___ooO_( )_Ooo__\nEmail: compsol@fir.canberra.edu.au V\nAlso: ellib@cbr.cpsg.com.au\nUUCP: ..!uunet!munnari!sserve.adfa.oz.au!compsol!root\nFidoNet: 3:620/262\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------", "In <1qjahh$mrs@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) \n\n\n\n\n\n\nHow do we measure truth, beauty, goodness, love, friendship, trust, honesty, \netc.? If things have no basis in objective fact then aren't we limited in what\nwe know to be true? Can't we say that we can examples or instances of reason,\nbut cannot measure reason, or is that semantics?\n\nMAC\n--\n****************************************************************\n Michael A. Cobb\n \"...and I won't raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois\n class to pay for my programs.\" Champaign-Urbana\n -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu", "Do you know if there is an airport nearby? They may just be markers\nto tell pilots of small planes that there are power lines nearby.", "\nOn the other hand, it would be kind of scary if there were *never* a final\nverdict, because a party to litigation could keep saying \"Oops! I forgot\nto bring up this evidence,\" and demand a new trial. You get one bite at\nthe apple.\n\n\nIt's up to General Motors to find those witnesses in the first litigation.\nYou'd be up in arms if a plaintiff suing General Motors pulled the same\nstunt and made them relitigate an issue that they already lost. It's not\nas if General Motors couldn't file enough discovery motions to delay the\ntrial until they found all the witnesses they wanted.\n\n\nDefine \"obvious bias.\"\n\n\nDid GM move for a new trial on those grounds? No? Perhaps they had a \nreason? ", "\nTwo notes of interest from Texas:\n\nThe Tarrant Couonty ME (who is doing the autopsies) is well known for rendering\njudgements that are contrary to the police view. He presented evidence a few\nyears ago that a man who police said was pointing a gun at them actually had\nhis hands in the air. This does not bode well for the boys in black.\n\nThe Texas Dept. of Public Saftey and the Texas Rangers have no great love for\nthe ATF. I have heard them referred to as \"those fucking cowboys\". The DPS\nwas totally squeezed out of the BD operation and resented being left as\n\"traffic cops\". ATF now has two strikes against them.\n\nFinally (I guess that makes three notes), rumour from Waco is that four ATF\nagents were stopped by four Waco police cars and a DPS trooper after one of the\nflashed \"an automatic weapon\" at a cop. Lots of pissed of cops. And you\nwonder why there were so few cops really cheering on the ATF.", "In light of the last letter I posted from Jeff Brody concering the crap\nthat is going on in the MOA, (which some folks took not as dissemination \nof information that I received, but as my own bad mouthing) I thought that\nI would post this one, which came to me yesterday. This is from board member\nRobert Higdon to MOA Pres Chich Morse. This is NOT my words, O.K. guys?\n\n April 4, 1993\n\nre: Cecil King's Nominating Statement \n\nDear Chick:\n We have a very serious problem with the election for president of the \nMOA this year. Cecil King's nominating statement (as it appeared in the\nOwners News) is 968 words, nearly twice as many as that is permitted by\nthe by-laws. In pertinent part, the rules state:\n\n\"Each candidate's biography and position statement shall be limited to\na combined total of no more than 500 words. The nominating committe shall cut afafter the 500th word any biography and position statement exceeding this length.\n\n Obviously the nominationg committe was not up to the task. Had Cecil's\nstatement been cut as required, it would have concluded approximately with\nthe word \"undertiding\" [sic] in the second paragraph after the commencement\nof his Position Statement. As a result, Cecil has obtained what I view as a\ngrossly unfair advantage over the other candidates for president. This does\nnot just taint the election for that office; it makes a mockery of the \nprocess. I would appreciate your advising the board immediately what steps\nyou intend to take to rectify this caricature of a fair election.\n Parenthetically, in your private correspondence with others, I would\nbe most appreciative that when tou call me an \"asshole\" you remind the\nletter's recipient that the re-publication of such a comment is almost\nguaranteed to have woeful consequences.\n With kind regards, I remain,\n Robert Higdon", "Article from as follows\n", "Note that Bo Gritz was on the Populist party ticket with David\nDuke (for veep) in 1988 until he found out that Duke was leading\nhe ticket, when he withdrew his candidacy. So Gritz gave up his\nchance to be Vice President of the US just to aviod supporting\nDuke.\n", "\nSounds as though you are confused between \"what I want\" and \"what\nI think is morally right\".", "\nI can't even hear the fan on my 650.....gee I wonder if its working.....yup,\njust checked, its exhausting air out the back just fine.\n\nGary\n\n-- ", "\n > I'm wondering if I can tote my American touch tone phone around with me\n > to Sweden and Germany. It's DC powered, and I can buy a special adapter\n > for that in Europe. The question is if the general electronics work\n > the same. I can buy a different wall plug and refit it (I'm sure I'd\n > have to), but would that do the trick?\n\n Two things to watch for:\n In Germany (and I think the same holds for Sweden) only some\n of the connections can handle tone dialing, so make sure the\n phone can be set to pulse dialing.\n\nMost (if not virtually all) swedish exchanges can handle tone\ndialling. Many older electromechanical exchanges have been modified\naccept tone dialling.", "\n\n[other uninformed, purposefully ignorant gun control ranting deleted]\n\n\nI want this man to tell me how in the hell you can take the \nexplosives used in the WTC bombing, considering that the \nconsensus seems to be that the explosive was a fertilizer-based\none. Ammonium nitrate, to be exact . . . of which about\n90,000 tons disappears per year (if I recall the stat correctly;\nI don't have it here.) Just one more disregarding of reality\nto push a point.\n\n[more bunk deleted]", "\n\nTry this one on for size. I'd rather not post her name, but if you\nemail me, I'll tell you who she is. 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B _#?L($D,TJ.J9AMY5.;K\" RH;_)N05/E9N$/E J<0MPP?Y!_.+J.3:FS0C\nM%^ASWP(KGN8APT^+3[@US1^X\\:-/%W]\\.AZ6=8$F?HJZ-(V@L$$\" LQ/)BE9:9E[)\"!J58?3\nM.)I2;@H')@4X2#Y(/]'?CG$/ (OVO^O)5.2#_?ZVU;,HY8!R EE^5GZ/L, %$A3\\/^:8F_$T]:5@(=SNDY)9&\\\nM\"Q['ZTA1__[#AQID8=- SGISO?D-'WV Z&S%:@#\\+,$LU&TV+^V$U6KMXH2=\nM@3#0LIP[$'2UU,8=QM+)\"1O[,0!1H!6_.+N#,:F383J%UBZD226.RNHSX$8-\nM__+=TX/VCW'TI3L;8S #W6^T@A74X5VCW5$;01]-OS!^QSMML*L109^)@-8B\nM$5>7#A)=56Z-@?*/%/\"0T!<4^[ @1Y /H'GE%E0(45):XU&,:%B6P0?5*T=2\nM0O9!F<,W=J&>2-BV@]7'2SJ,$#\\)IO@%^>$RVW;PB\\JJEU[SUS9,T'JY[>R)\nMG15!M:MBU2?V]+G.=\"\\\"#DM;*5C9HB!Q\nMX.:GAG!19W=!2TOA])_5=S=]RB.V_%R=&!H:G%\\@AE:4;]!&B&RT\nMKL4\"78KZJ6H5,7V([BM.2N=JQ\nMB&+JV-?B,%BOQNDX&J7QLLT]2C9,/,8?\nMZB/EH;7R4,Z3M3\\)$#LE8YH4=\"%U/]%8@)-?IW_7WYT,P5Q26M8Q/C#D?'(K\nM]*-^!R+ KAP$>PC6H/] -AMA1#.'#B^;#).59@8( S9P90MAQ:*4?\nM\\!V/CW9=F\"R+7O+_&$+6CUE3=G)\".\"3^<\" KW#Z]:!,TG+C'V7H%O\\,EBY:X\nM0]&>S1/%ST@]^\",P-\\48GLW[1MNC&#UJW27?J/$.\\+GFW&+-U+-RJ8?OKAA$\nM1DH[+'15[3''0)X:S\"V]P-!.Z(.6C#O PJD5B[24K8?NYCEHK_D$2E;@).XP\nMH'(J\"GYD3XG.??RW\"\"V8UV=[FR\\RV-]!I^)#M/$ O#AI8;_+[0G)6PCTWH7.\nM0MAYT?H+!:.-'4(>6N6.+O R@\nM'HLFGAA'\nM!9L8!S3\"# <=RU411I?LM2@O(_NLY&-IJ#'O3J.M/X1 7V[=U+VA=8=E3,!G\nM@R)&\",02QBAB'\"E<5M7O*P:.'2*H$S-@9- ]>\\$4;7K!!0JM:\"LR8.OD%N15(F!T,@_R&#)Z,T!A^\\'?_(SXST@?0YYP[OC%&T\nMY-P3S!\\J3[Z-(3?.^$2L;*,P8I]/EHD^DT)*X'>Y!J G'XB&@<@D,A#F O2\"X\nM6((1)Y>K#(FGUP>* 3DXTLP6^ ?\\')A)D\"(X>_'W?)=L*@>$MN^WV8AI:!SO\nMAU+7 Y#M<]DP9!0XR #W-_?/]\\\\W='YAX/7(M1M(/TQ!0LQWK>IG(^>@@9_&\nMQ,]$SU]6PC_4 O$=&\"#T\\%>7$G34EUK_8P%4K>9 P+*G\\&A,^H=@F&F)BXEY&B*#/RV0$?&XPR\nME'*&3T+1A:07./R93K%\\^[PHUU1&(2J64+[4P*_R?1QB@$:P5;#Q(\"G\"'5TR\nM$/G8YL/ HD6S29HW;\"BN2:D3]CMXDQZB@ UZSG\"^P_K5,07K8(N?.VBL)EP$\nM.:^(.U]>'A[%^^,@YQ0?-T$7=,9*TJ.;!!O(]S#B\\%@4U=K]%W\\8[;\nM\"#\"(+ <*<,1?@AQ\"6WQ.^(/&'HP9R)*Y>RXH>Q'U*D9([_]#&2,J4B6+2:) \nM*A=%(STY$.=$Z?2G7WZ'MNS>U:\\'8N8[\"3?NN\"X*)P@5\\S6!#L5HB]]'BG_;3C-/.$2')@.)$'\nMS@+$#\\S>:Z4?8\"#*SYL*@UOXN/B:0;2VG,\\L.OM<_-U1M?3-]N%/%GJ2V775\nM>@-XP)&@ZDPL.-K\"/3S5W7Z)(%O1:(4N)DLT55HQ6U5MF>>NG- 81#C/>ZY84**94&W\"-/EA\"V2DW5@>QAE0DBVZS \nM7AF1'D[@4\\$4ANRAUBK@F[@D&786+J1 2B$$2D\\3 A[S?57;V3O_6&KB4WZ;\nMLA ^3A5'_)Q?YH^UD-K55SZ5-4YDNC5 +0?)D.5OAO2CZ;N-4^<9U<\\#>X4<\nM#.-N031C5$!KR,&H@QP<5!R&\nM#%]L^<97M&$;+4^ _@9#=.37]PFQG6\\3$1^N(=_YSQ@:?C^O%#@K>[)QAQ-Z\nMW53*A?Q.>I<\"?CORU)KX&;&C,\\G^\\%J':6&1DCLNJ+U]9OG0GB801R<+ >HQ\nM,F(4IDL8)O#.;IBI7C9W:XD>7N]AH\\*[VZW*#[EW+6S3 0 N/B,$]\nM V?-!U^[/Z3>_CV\";?6\\S]PCTV.,O(+C&M@&1W2_HWB\"%SR1/!N/]^DL\nMQB#31P+7WMW1,)H,F7VV-V@44N3BW-T$@)B+%GD&RU:R#POI4 F(>0A&*L90\nM,F8H\"7.W/U?F[W-,5=\\[CK'..6H*DCY*I8*/&8[/-Q]71M*G3^$C[E!ST1$-\nM^_8EOO05.13([P _X\\$!\\#!\\.D8;E]/ZKT3-?DS_5>3WK>?[U1\nM0X:?FU0L7KDLC:U?3O*_QW-W=NHLR)&8))8S^\"@+W\".1TE.A91\nM\"EM:2;#SV'#LQ9&IH \\]7\\#WB!#<,5P:O=3-BB_(0BRY[@_@Vand since the US constitutions guarantees the right to every American\n+>to bear arms, why is not every American entitled, as a matter of\n+\n+Have you read the applicable part of the Constitution and interpreted it IN \n+CONTEXT? If not, please do so before posting this misinterpretation again.\n+It refers to the right of the people to organize a militia, not for individuals \n+to carry handguns, grenades, and assault rifles. \n\nHmmm, this could become a flame war very quickly. The text is \"...well\nregulated militia...\" When that amendment was written and approved,\n\"regulated\" meand \"armed\". Remember all of those Westerns where bounty\nhunters were called \"regulators\"? This is now an archaic usage of the\nword, but the original intent of the amendment was about weapons, not\ncontrol.\n\nMy $0.02.", "\nI can only say that those people are wrong. The word harass means to \nirritate or torment persistently; I'd hardly consider one time to fall\nunder the definition of persistent. Additionally, there is no basis\nto assume the behaviour is unwanted, unlike an illegal proposition.\n\nI was speaking from a legalistic viewpoint. What you say is true, but\nthe law, in order to make what little sense it manages to make, has to\nmake *some* assumptions. Assuming that an illegal activity is unwanted\nby the average citizen I think is reasonable. Certainly, I would need\na preponderance of evidence on the side of the propositioner that there\nwas a reasonable belief that the proposition was welcome.\n\nThe number of people who participate in \"victimless\" crimes notwithstanding,\nthe fact reamins that under the law, the activity is illegal. To presume\nthat the proposition *is* welcome simply because a large number of people\nindulge in it is the type of sophistry only a lawyer could indulge in\nwith a straight face.\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\n...Dale Cook \"Any town having more churches than bars has a serious\n social problem.\" ---Edward Abbey\nThe opinions are mine only (i.e., they are NOT my employer's)", "\nSecular laws seem to value criminal life more than the victims life,\nIslam places the rights of society and every member in it above \nthe rights of the individual, this is what I call true human rights.\n\n\nAs a Muslim living in a non-Muslim land I am bound by the laws of the land\nI live in, but I do not disregard Islamic Law it still remains a part of my \nlife. If the laws of a land conflict with my religion to such an extent\nthat I am prevented from being allowed to practise my religion then I must \nleave the land. So in a way Islamic law does take precendence over secular law\nbut we are instructed to follow the laws of the land that we live in too.\n\nIn an Islamic state (one ruled by a Khaliphate) religions other than Islam\nare allowed to rule by their own religious laws provided they don't affect\nthe genral population and don't come into direct conflict with state \nlaws, Dhimmis (non-Muslim population) are exempt from most Islamic laws\non religion, such as fighting in a Jihad, giving Zakat (alms giving)\netc but are given the benefit of these two acts such as Military\nprotection and if they are poor they will receive Zakat.\n\n\nAfter the Fatwa didn't Rushdie re-affirm his faith in Islam, didn't\nhe go thru' a very public \"conversion\" to Islam? If so he is binding\nhimself to Islamic Laws. He has to publicly renounce in his belief in Islam\nso the burden is on him.\n\nMas\n\n", "\nYep. Both were started (nominally) simultaneously. Splitsville from the\nstart (ie, if my sources are correct, one guy was involved in the start of\nboth groups. true?)\n\n tom coradeschi <+> tcora@pica.army.mil", "\nSaw it in t.p.m., thanks.\n\n\n\n\nYes, and the individual is not omitted; I just didn't fully articulate the \nprinciples of Fractal Federalism. All government powers derive from the\nPeople; each level can receive a new power from the level below through \nthe amendment process, where a true consensus (say a 3/4 majority) writes \nthat power into the Constitution of the level above (in the case of the \nlowest level, an amendement is passed by a 3/4 majority vote; in the case \nof higher levels, it must be passed by 3/4 of the legislatures. We can\nof course haggle about the specifics of \"true consensus\" when we hold our \nConstitutional Convention :-). Once a power has been granted, it may be \nexercised by the legislature. Powers not in the original Constitutions must \npercolate upward, starting from the individual. The ratification process \nfor the original Constitutions should involve consensus and not simply a \nplurality or majority.\n\nGranting a \"right\" in a constitution is of course the same as empowering\nthe government at that level to restrict the activities of the governments\nat the lower levels, so it operates in the same way as the amendment process \n(again, that crazy resemblance to the supposed-but-not-actual U.S. government \nstructure).\n\nThis government structure is a very frustrating one for those people (read-\n\"liberals\") who would like to have concentrated power to use the government\nto force people to do \"good\" (a difficult-to-define word, and one that it \nis difficult to reach a consensus on). It is also a frustrating structure \nfor those who want to use the government to dictate personal behavior (read- \n\"big-government conservatives\"). I personally would rather see those types\nof people frustrated than the incredible erosion of liberty (both civil and \neconomic) that is going on now.\n\nThis is IMHO a \"good\" government stucture for those who see the role of\ngovernment as the protection of individual liberties, while still recognizing\nthat individuals need to have some influence in the type of community that\nthey live in.\n\n\n\n\nOne which maintains peace, liberty, and the opportunity for happiness for its\npeople, while working within the realities of human nature. You do bring\nup the point (intentional or not) that a \"lasting\" idea is by no means\nnecessarily a \"successful\" idea. I believe that Fractal Federalism would\nat least bring many ideas to light, and The People would have the opportunity\nto democratically choose between \"good\" ideas and \"bad\" ideas. If the\nDocialists, er, I mean Democrats are right and government activism fosters a\nprosperous People, they will have a plethora of local opportunities to \ncheck their thesis. If Libertopia is possible, it will arise. If a balanced\nConservative Republic is democratically received as the best level of\ngovernment activity, it will become clear to The People that it is best.\n\n\n\n\n\nRight, and people would not rescind any freedoms (read- \"empower the\ngovernment\") except through the amendment process. That is how the Federal \nGovernment is supposed to work now, but the Supreme Soviet, er, I mean the \nSupreme Court put a stop to that \"republican government\" nonsense.\n\nIn my hypothetical government, if there were a constitutional provision\nempowering the government to regulate churches the government (whatever\nlevel we are talking about) could indeed ban churches. The constitutional\nprovision would be invalid if a higher level had a constitutional provision\nprotecting free exercise of religion. The uppermost Constitution is still\nthe Supreme Law of the Land.\n\n\n\n\nIt is a matter of individuals being able to control their own associations\nand environment, not a matter of suppression of ideas.\n\nOne dilemma of the human condition is that individuals need liberty, and\nthey also need to have some control over their environment. In my\n\"Fractal Federalism\" government, certain \"rights\" are protected by the \nconstitutions. Other \"rights\" are protected simply because the government \nhas not been empowered to infringe upon them. When a consensus is reached\nthat the government should have a certain power, then freedom is infringed\nupon. This cannot be avoided -- murder statutes infringe upon freedom,\nbut I think that the consensus of the American people is that murder statutes\nare a good idea.\n\nI am sure that many parents believe that they have a \"right\" to control\nthe environment that their children live in. People feel that they have\na \"right\" to sleep peacefully at night; thus, there are noise ordinances.\nThere are zoning laws that keep businesses from overrunning residential\nneighborhoods. I do not view these as bad things (certainly some individual\ninstances are bad, but the concept is not necessarily bad), I view them\nas the people in a community having some control over the type of community\nthat they live in. I see the alternative as near anarchy.\n\nLike I said in another post, if you can come up with a scenario where an \nindividual can do something truly autonomously -- with absolutely zero\neffect on anyone else -- then no individual or government has the right\nto restrict that activity. There are simply not very many behaviors that\nfit into the category of the truly autonomous, so the whole thing becomes\nan issue of one individual or group having power over another individual\nor group. I think that the \"Fractal Federalism\" approach is a sound, if\nnot ideal, approach to limiting this restrictive power. The libertarian \nscenario degenerates to \"might makes right,\" and the system we have right\nnow is one of \"lawyers abusing natural rights philosophy to decide what \npowers the government should have by subverting the democratic process \nthough the Supreme Court.\"\n\n\n\n\n\nI think I answered this above already, but let me expand a little more\nwith an example. If I stand naked in front of your house and masturbate \nin front of your children while they play, in your libertarian (small 'l')\nscenario the only recourse you have is to yell at me. \"Autonomous\" is\na value judgement 99.99% of the time, it is not a scientific reality with\na clear definition. Exactly who would you empower to make that value\njudgement?\n\n\n\n\n\n\nLots of people are long on complaints and short on practical solutions.\nAlthough I am pessimistic that my idea will ever bear fruit, I am at least\ntrying to be long on solutions also. I am truly interested if you have\nany improvements to make on my ideas (I call them \"my ideas\", but they\nall come from an \"average guy\" reading of the U.S. Constitution without\nbenefit of the indoctrination of Constitutional Law academia).\n\n\n\n\nSorry, the confusion was my fault. When I said that \"Fractal Federalism\" \nresembles the U.S. constitution, I meant it and thought it was pretty clear. \nI should have more clearly explained that the ultimate derivation of government\npower is from the CONSENSUS of the people (although not the CONSENT of every\nindividual; a practical observation, not a moral judgement). It is certainly \nbetter than having all government power derive from nine lawyers, which is the\nsituation we have now. That is why I think the Supreme Court should be\na jury court, with a different jury for each case. \n\nIt is certainly not perfect (no philosophy of government is), but do you still \nfind it a repugnant idea? If so, what is your solution?\n\n\n\n\n\nI think that you misunderstood the structure of the form of government I\nadvocate, and it was my fault for not being more clear.\n\n\n\n\n\n\nThe majority does not make the rules. The majority (or possibly a \nplurality) simply elects representatives to exercise limited government \npowers; those limited government powers derive from a large consensus, \nnot a simple majority. And the Federal Government, in my scenario, still\nhas the power to protect freedoms.\n\n\n\n\n\n\nMatt Freivald\n\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\nLiBORGalism:\n THINKING IS IRRELEVANT. INTEGRITY IS IRRELEVANT.\n FREE SPEECH IS IRRELEVANT. PRIVATE PROPERTY IS IRRELEVANT.\n PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY IS IRRELEVANT.\n CONSERVATIVISM IS FUTILE.\n YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED.\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTHESE ARE MY OPINIONS ONLY AND NOT THOSE OF MY EMPLOYER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!", "Another idea: Use a laptop computer. As mentioned earlier, the LCD screen\nis a lot less noisy than a standard CRT, but since many laptops have power\nsupplies that run at 3 volts instead of 5, they would be considerably \nquieter.\n\nDoug Holland\n\n", "I originally posted a complaint about how noisy my PC was. I got several \nuseful suggestions, but 1 was the most seductive: run your PC in silence by \nremoving the fan altogether!\n\nTwo variables: \n1) I always run my PC without the cover, and \n2) I'd be willing to attach a CPU cooler if that would make a difference.\n\nShould I try to run my PC without a fan? I know it sounds like utter folly so \nI'm asking - has anyone done this succesfully? Or tragically? You're answer \nmay save my PC... Thanks.", "\nWho compared Quayle to Gore? Mark said he had never heard of any incident\nin which the thrower of the ceremonial ball had been booed before. I mentioned\nanother incident. (And if the media had a liberal bias, I'm sure he would\nhave heard of the Quayle incident.)\n\nIf I was to compare Quayle to anyone, it most likely would be Elmer Fudd.\n\n", "\n\n\nThis is an interesting question to ponder. Did Brad/Ali's sickness\nmake Ayatollah-style Islam attractive to him or did this new religion \nthat Brad/Ali has formally adopted give him this sickness?\n", "My recollection of History/Documentary books is slitely different.\nIt is my understanding that Croats were allies of Germany during\nWWII, while Serbs had sided with Russia. As a result Serbs did\ntake a beating from Croats (NOT Bosnian Moslems) while Germany\nhad the upper hand.\n\nEven today, Russians consider/call Serbs as their Slovac brothers.\nThis is one of the issues involved in the U.N.'s lack of active\nintervention against Serbs.\n\nAs for the Bosnian Moslems, I have not heard of any alliance with\nGermany or Russia in recent history. Therefore, I am curious\nif they did or were able to treat other parties in this conflict\nwith same brutallity (as they are getting it today) in the past\nhistory.", "\nYou have perhaps heard of the Dead Sea. I may be wrong, but I believe\nit is not misnamed. And I don't believe that humans had a hand in it,\nalthough it is possible since the great cedar forests of Lebanon were\nbut a memory by the time of Christ if not earlier.\n\nBut, more on the point, while Nature is the may be the more prolific\n\"despoiler\", Man is certainly the more creative. We have to our\ncredit pesticides and heavy metals, not to mention radioactivity,\nwhich is so wonderfully persistent and fatal (not that we invented\nradioactivity or heavy metals, we only concentrated them so that they\nwould be a more lethal threat).\n\nIn general I find Mr. Bacon's arguments rhetorical, devoid of sense,\nand therefore trivial.\n\nBTW, is there any reason this discussion is on phl.misc?", "\n I saw this nifty drawn out posting and I thought I might give the two of you\n a little help with your problem. As you both know what you posted,(and this \n foolish thing gave me so much shit last time I tried to post) I took the \n liberty of deleting all but the header and a single quote. I hope you don't\n mind.\n\n As written the second ammendment states rather clearly for anyone who can\n read the following:\n\n \" A well regulated militia, being necessarry to the security of a free state,\n the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.\"\n\n What is regulated? Regulated means \"controlled\"! How about security?\n Well hey! That would be along the lines of being and feeling safe wouldn't\n it? Wow! We have a concept forming here don't we!? Now what have we left?\n \"the right of the people people people people people people people (sorry\n got kinda hungup there) shall NOT be infringed\" Oops! Backup there,hmmm..\n \"infringed\"....That'd be like Interfered with, altered, changed or\n watered down in any way,shape or form! So! What we have here in it's big old\n long winded version would be.\n\n \" A well controlled militia, being necessary to the secure/safe feeling of\n state, the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms shall not be Fucked\n with in any way shape or form by some happy ass good for nothing in \n some piddly government building who wants to run my life in the pursuit of\n his happiness!\" The item is clear and concise in it's present form my young \n friend! It does not need my clarification or that of any other. THIS IS\n ONLY AMMENDMENT which guarantees the continued existence of the others.\n It's whole purpose is to give people recourse against the military machine\n of a government which fails to properly represent it's creators!US!\n\n\n\nANY REPLIES OR COMMENTS CAN BE SENT TOO KANE. DJH4484@RIGEL.TAMU.EDU\n\n\"No representative government need fear it's armed citizens\"\n\n\"Death to Tyrants!\"", "What in blazes is going on with Wayne Matson and gang\ndown in Alabama? I also heard an unconfirmed rumor that\nAerospace Ambassadors have disappeared. Can anyone else\nconfirm??", "\n\n\tThe word that is missing in this whole discourse is not the \"B\"\nword, or the \"H\" word, or even the \"N\" or \"W\" words. It is the \"L\" word -\nLOSER !!\n\n\tThat's right. When we boil all the crap out of this argument, it\nis all about WINNING and LOSING, and nothing else. Let me explain.\n\n\tRemember the eighties ? No excuses. Nobody who can handle a mail\nbuffer can claim they are \"too young\" to remember Ronald Reagan - yet.\nThe eighties were about \"How America Learned to Win Once Again\". Then\n(wouldn't you know), we won so well that there was nothing left to win.\nNo Cold War to endure. No nuclear holocaust. No more worlds to conquer\n(We forgot about outer space long ago). The kind of overwhelming, no\nholds barred success that killed Alexander the Great. Yes, there were a\nfew \"little\" problems along the way - stock market meltdown here, an\nS&L bailout there, a few revolts and crazy Middle Eastern dictators to\ncontend with, but as Tacitus would tell ya', the God Augustus never had\nit so good. \n\n\tIn the meantime, there is guilt for winning, maybe a fear that one\ndoesn't deserve one's bounty - or success. So there is a \"kinder and gentler\ntype of politician these days, Bill Clinton, affirmative action, and lots of\ndiscourse about people who \"don't get it\". For those of us in the winning\nbusiness, this kind of talk is mildly irritating, but there is still no \nsuggestion of losing.\n\n\tBut what do we find now ? To put it mildy, the stereotype of our \n\"white male\" non-winner is Woody Hayes in the Rose Bowl, punching out \nphotojournalists when those California fruits and nuts steal another one\nwith a \"Hail Mary\" pass in the Fourth Quarter. (The whole idea behind 'three\nyards and a cloud of dust' is to wear your opponent down until he collapses\nin the final period) But Woody just used his fists - Uzzies seem to be the \nweapon of choice these days. \n\t\n\tWho is D-FENS, anyway ? The answer is as plain as the horn rims on \nyour face. The guy is MICHAEL DOUGLAS, posing as a LOSER. This \nis known as controversial casting. But that baggy short-sleeved white shirt \nsure does look natural on Mike doesn't it. Gordon Gekko will never look the \nsame. (Though Woody always dressed that way.) Did we really expect Gekko to \ntake it easy and enjoy that kind of wardrobe, without putting up a fuss ?\n\n\tWhat we are starting to lose sight of is, that bashing D-FENS is \nthe same game as bashing that poor African American slug that Clint Eastwood\nused to blow away all the time. As that arch-WASP (male gender) George C. Scott\ndeclaimed, \"Americans traditionally LOVE TO WIN. They love a winner, and will \nnot tolerate a loser.\" And so on. \n\n\tThe political implications are simple. If, as many socialists - and\nDemocrats - do, you consider society a finite pie to a apportioned in some \n\"equitable\" way, then you have to worry about who is a winner and who is a \nloser to tell whose side you are on. That could be black women today, Asian\nhomosexuals tommorrow, and yes indeed, white men some yet to be determined\nday when the balance of the pie has finally swung against that (39%) \nminority.\n\n\tOr you can just blow the whole thing off and say - as do most\nconservatives and all the libertarians - and act is if you didn't care\nwho's winning and who's losing. In some cases, you might say something\nabout make sure the game is fair (equality of opportunity, not of condition).\nIn the latter case, you might be able to identify yourself as a \n\"neoconservative\" or a \"neoliberal\" depending on how much you want to limit\nthe pot.\n\n\tEither way you go, the way of the Winner is no longer the way to be\npopular - at least after you graduate from High School (but you'll still\nbe popular at High School reunions). But it beats being a Nerd, as I \nwould imagine Michael Douglas would now agree, and in the long run, it\nis the only way to go. (Even in Hollywood, which treats Losers worse than any\nother place in America except for New York and Washington, D.C. - and even in\nColumbus, Ohio, which produced Alex Keaton, but no champion football teams in\nthe eighties and the first quarter of the nineties) I'd like to \nsee more Winners in this society, regardless of race, gender, religious \npreference, and sexual orientation. Maybe we should even let a few more of \nthem be white men !! (We should DEFINITELY let the Buckeyes win the Rose Bowl\nsomeday)\n\n\n\nBill R.\n\n--", "Keywords: ", "\nIf you force me to do something, am I morally responsible for it?\n\n\nWell, make up your mind. Is it to be \"instinctive not to murder\"\nor not?\n\n\nIt's not even correct. Animals of the same species do kill\none another.\n\n\nSigh. I wonder how many times we have been round this loop.\n\nI think that instinctive bahaviour has no moral significance.\nI am quite prepared to believe that higher animals, such as\nprimates, have the beginnings of a moral sense, since they seem\nto exhibit self-awareness.\n\n\nSo what? Are you trying to say that some killing in animals\nhas a moral significance and some does not? Is this your\nnatural morality>\n\n\n\nAre you blind? What do you think that this sentence means?\n\n\t\"There must be the possibility that the organism - it's not \n\tjust people we are talking about - can consider alternatives.\"\n\nWhat would that imply?\n\n\nI find the fact that they do to be significant. ", "\n\n Lawson was on the Yamaha.\n\nNot taking anything away from Russel, but, well...\n\n__\n Jorg Klinger | GSXR1100 | If you only new who\n Arch. & Eng. Services |\"Lost Horizons\" CR500 | I think I am. \n UManitoba, Man. Ca. |\"The Embalmer\" IT175 | - anonymous", "\n Yes, I do. \n\n My argument is that the sole purpose of the death penalty is to\n kill people. That is it's primary (and I would argue only)\n purpose. To continue to kill people by a practice that has\n almost no utility, especially when you know you will be killing\n innocents, is unconscionable.\n\n At the very least, the existence of the prison system and our\n transportation system are based on their merits to society, not\n their detriments. We are willing to accept a few lost innocent\n lives because there is an overwhelming benefit to the continued\n existence of these systems. One has to stretch the evidence and\n the arguments to make the same claim for capital punishment.\n\n Just in case I wasn't clear again: We maintain a capital\n punsihment system that kills innocent people and provides us with\n no net positive gain. Why?\n\n Were you to pin me in a corner and ask, I would have to respond\n that I don't belief the state should have the right to take life\n at all. But I won't open that debate, as it seems others are\n tiring of this thread on a.a anyway.\n\n\n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ \n\nBob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM \n\nThey said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,\nand sank Manhattan out at sea.", "\n: Upon arriving at home, Joseph probably took advantage of Mary...had his way\n: with her so to speak. Of course, word of this couldn't get around so Mary,\n: being the highly-religious follower that she was decided \"Hey, I'll just say\n: that GOD impregnated me...no one will ever know!\"\n: \n: Thus, seen as a trustworthy and honorable soul, she was believed...\n: \n: And then came Jesus, the child born from violence.\n: \n: \n: \n\nDave,\n\nCan you explain the purpose of your post, I can't imagine what you\nmust have thougt it meant. ", "\nOh? What about the precedent in which nuclear weapons information was\npublished in \"The Progressive\"? I was under the impression that the\ncourt held that prior restraint could NOT be used. Any lawyers out\nthere?\n\n--\nPerry Metzger\t\tpmetzger@shearson.com", "\nAs far as I know, tigers are not sentient. If I were pushed into a pool with\nsome dolphins and they attacked me, I might be inclined to blame the dolphins\nrather than the person doing the pushing, as (a) dolphins are not usually\naggressive and (b) they seem to have well-developed brains and a capacity for\nabstract thought.\n\nAs a matter of fact, tigers rarely attack humans unless the human provokes\nthem. Of course, if they are in a cage which is far too small, that might\ncount as provocation...\n", "\tHere! Here! But any call for responsibility and accountability \n\tfrom police is invariably interpreted as being \"soft on crime\".\n\tBeing \"tough on crime\" and building more prisons and seizing more\n\tproperty is the politically astute thing to do these days.\n\n\n\tAnd citizen complacency!\n\n\tDon't forget the politicians that write the laws that make it\n\teasy for the police agencies to become corrupt. The War on Some\n\tDrugs brought us this corruption and only an end to it (legalization)\n\twill stop the corruption.\n", "\n\nJust because the wording is elsewhere does not mean they didn't spend\nmuch time on the wording.\n\n\nPeople can be described as cruel in this way, but punishments cannot.", "\n\tI originally wrote to the person who asked this question\npersonally, but decided to post the information I had on the topic.\n\n\tI spoke to the pastor of my parish (Catholic) recently, \nby coincidence, on this subject. His explaination was that \nwhile it is possible for a couple to marry without the presence\nof a priest, it is important to have it recognized by the \nChurch as soon as it is possible. Because the Church \nrecoginizes itself as a community of believers, members\nof the church, to some degree, are to be held accountable\nto each other. To be less hypothetical than that mythical\ncouple on the desert island, there are many places in the\nworld that do not have priests availible for marriages\non a regular basis. Therefore, couples get married without\nthe priest being present, but get the priest to testify to\ntheir marriage when one comes through the area. \n\n\tI remember a religion teacher in high school saying\nthat the marriage ceremony is not for the benefit of the couple\nas much as it is for the benefit of the community. Thus,\nmarried couples have some responsibility to the community\nto stay married, as divorce sets a bad example for the\ncommunity. Also, the couple has vowed to become one with\none another--the community should be able to rely on that \ncouple to be as one.\n\n\tWhile couples may marry without witnesses, they \nmay NOT get anulments without a priest present. An \nanulment is simply an admission of the church that what\nthey had declared a marriage was not, in fact, a marriage\nat all, for whatever reason. So don't start getting married\nin the back seat of a station wagon and giving yourselves\nanulments a half-hour later!!\n\n\tI tend to agree with the response back there that\nsaid couples become married as soon as they consumate their\nmarriage, but I would add that couples should consider their\nmarriage consumated if they have sex, whether or not they\nintended to be married, assuming they were both willing\npartners to the sexual act. The couple must be prepared\nto raise any children they may have as a result of that\nsexual act with the benefit of both parents. Sex IS a\ncommitment, I believe, in God's eyes.\n\n\tBut I'm digressing....\n\n\t\t\tGod be with you,", "For sale by owners who were also the builders\n\nContemporary Cape House located in Sandwich, Ma\n\nThree bedrooms, two baths, one car oversized garage\nlarge eat-in kitchen\nCathedral ceiling from to back living room\ndeck off of kitchen and dining room\n\n20,000 sq ft\n1,696 sq ft living space\nfull walk-out basement\n\n$139,900, creative financing a possibility", "\nWhat a JOKE! You can't actually believe what you just said. Can you? We \nbombed and invaded these countries.\n\nNotice the definition of war (from the American Heritage Dictionary):\n\t1) A state or period of armed conflict between nations or states.\nThis qualifies the invasions of Cambodia and Laos as wars.\n\nThen let me explain this to you REALLY slowly. Why did he abuse the \npowers of his position? Could it have been to gain personal political \npower? Naw, that would be too obvious.\n\nAnd anyone who can only call names because his position is defensless is\nbreathtakingly ignorant and desperate. I noticed that you edited out the\nother points were I proved you and Phil to be completely wrong.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\"Death to all modifiers, he declared one day, and out of Garrett Johnson\n every letter that passed through his hands went every Garrett@Ingres.com\n adverb and adjective. The next day he made war on articles.\n The following day he blacked out everything in the letters\n but \"a\", \"an\", and \"the\". - Joseph Heller's Catch-22", "\n\nAE is in Dallas...try 214/241-6060 or 214/241-0055. Tech support may be on\ntheir own line, but one of these should get you started.", "\n\n The Republicans are, in general, fighting any tax increase.\nThere is also worry that a VAT would be far too easy to increase\nincrementally.\n\n (BTW, what is different between Canada's tax and most of\nEurope's that makes it \"visible?\")\n\n\n This would require a constitutional amendment, and Congress\nenjoys raising taxes too much to restrict themselves like that.\n(Besides, with the 2/3 majority necessary to pull that off you'd \nhave a difficult time \"forcing\" anything like that.)\n\n\n Primarily because it's a practical impossibility to \"freeze\"\ntax rates.\n\n However, this is something that bothers me. We're always talking\nabout \"consumer confidence\" and \"consumer spending\" as gauges for the\neconomy. If they really are important, wouldn't shifting taxes to\nconsumption provide a disincentive to spend money?\n", "Hi,\n I was wondering if anyone knew whether or not Logitech had\nWindows TWAIN drivers for the Scanman. If so, are the drivers on the\nnet somewhere? My Scanman is the model one down from the Scanman 256.\n\n Thanks in advance.\n\n Ross Barclay\n", "I am both new to this news group and to the net.\n \n I am facinated by the things I have heard about the PGP\nencryption program. Does anybody out there know where I might get a\nversion of this program that runs under Windows 3.1, MS-Dos, Unix\nw/source? As of this writting I have no UNIX access and am running on a\nnifty windows implamentation of uucico.\n Thanks in advance!\n ", "\n\nWell people fortunatly or unfortunatly ,\nonly the US is experiencing the devaluation of human life (among \ndeveloped nations).\n\nI am an American but I was raised in Europe, where the worst thing that \ncan happen to somebody is get his car broken into, or have his pocket\npicked by Slaves or Russian refugees.\n\nOf cource there will be some nutcases, but thats extremely rare.\n\nI.e. in Greece you can walk through any neighborhood at any time during\nthe night without even worrying.\n\nIn Germany , you can walk the sidewalks at 4.00 am and not even look \nbehind your back, at the sanitation crews that clean the streets to a \nsparkling cleen.\n\nWhoever of you have been there you know what I am saying.\n\nI dont have any easy answers but if we as a nation do some selfcritisism\nwe might get somewhere.\n\nOf course these postings sould be in soc.culture.US but if we reduce\ncrime here it 'll mean less car insurance rates ,thus we could spend\nmore money on modifing our cars. (Now my posting is rec.autos.tech \nrevelant).\n\nVlasis Theodore\n\n___________________\nSoftware Engineer\nIDB Mobile Communications.", "\nThen Einstein should have had lunch with me at the Tien Fu\non Castro Street yesterday, when they handed me a fortune\ncookie that said \"He who has imagination but not knowledge\nhas wings, but no feet\".", "-*-----\n\nI think the question is: What is extra-scientific about this? \n\nIt has been a long time since anyone has proposed restrictions on\nwhere one comes up with ideas in order for them to be considered\nlegitimate hypotheses. The point, in short, is this: hypotheses and\nspeculation in science may come from wild flights of fancy, \ndaydreams, ancient traditions, modern quackery, or anywhere else.", "Sorry. My friend's address who wants the faq and info is\njjsulliv@colby.edu\nSorry about that folks.\nJody\n-- \n\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nJody Rebecca\t\tColby College\t\tMajors: History/Sociology\n\t\t\tClass o' '94 \nE-Mail: jrgould@colby.edu\n\t samuel@paul.rutgers.edu\n\nFantasy, Music, Colors, and Animals will lead this society out of oppression.\n", "\nBut the Question was later revealed to be: What is 9 x 6? (In the\nbase 13 system, of course.)\n\n", "What are the consequences of the homophobic ranting of the\nself-righteous? Well, I just noted this on another group,\nand thought I'd pass it along. The context is talk.origins,\nand a report of yet another \"debate\" that was nothing but an\nattempt at mindless bullying and factless assertion by a\nstandard-issue Creationist. The writer reflects that the\nbehavior reported reminds him of some Christian groups he has\nknown. I believe that the writer is a (non-homosexual) Christian:\n\n+\tThere is a very effective technique used to promote\n+\tunit cohesion among the Soldiers of the Lord. It is\n+\tcalled \"witnessing\"... I've seen this process used well\n+\tand poorly; the near devil worship I mention was a group \n+\t... that was using the witnessing to get people lathered\n+\tup to go kill homosexuals or at least terrorize them off \n+\tcampus as it was clearly God's will that they do so.\n\nI have deleted the specifics of the location, as I do not\nbelieve it characteristic of the place (a state in which I\nspent my formative first 10 years), though it *does* have,\nunfortunately, a subpopulation that this remark fits to a tee.", "From article <1qvampINNmhf@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, by stephen@orchid.UCSC.EDU:\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nI believe that this is not contradictory on the basis that\nthe quality of media reporting varies greatly based on the\nsubject at hand. The media has proven itself very accurate\nis the areas of presenting raw, undisputed data. One good\nexample would be the weather page in which high and low\ntemperatures of the previous day for a large number of\nlocations are posting. There is little evidence to show\nthat they are in error.\n\nThe American media has failed us in its analysis of complex\nevents, however. I'm sure that we can come up with many\nnews stories that have left us angry because so many facts\nhave been ommitted. Cases that come to mind are the\ninvasion of Panama, the war with Iraq, the disaster in Waco,\nthe issues surrounding the acceptance of gays into the\nmilitary, the war on drugs, and many others.\n\nThe story that you bring to light was regarding the new\nsex survey. While I'm sure that due to lazyness some of\nthe data was ommitted from the article, I would venture to\nguess that the data that was presented did not deviate\nfrom the survey. I do, however, think that it would be\nfolly to have blind faith in a single newswriter's\nanalysis of this data. In this particular case, there was\nlittle analysis, and the reader was left to draw his/her\nown convictions.\n\nMany netters, Mr. Cramer included, often forget that the\nAmerican media are merely a number of businesses, who's\npurpose in life is to make money for their owners and\nstockholders. Revenues come largely from advertisers\nwho merely want maximum useful exposure per dollar. The\nmedia is like fast food; the quality of the food (or of\nthe reporting) will improve only if the customers demand\nas such. Otherwise, it is business as usual.", "\nI hope you realize that for a cellular phone, you need to subscribe to a\nCellular carrier, and it usually takes at least one working day before\nthe service is available to you. Only then you can find out whether \nthe phone is working.", "\nI purposefully left off the page numbers to encourage the reader to\nstudy the volumes mentioned, and benefit therefrom.\n", "\nYeah. Innocents. People who hoard $250K worth of high-caliber automatic weapons\nand kill law-enforcement agents really fit the bill here. The only innocents\nwere the 20+ children who were prevented from leaving a burning building by\ntheir self-appointed messiah-following parents. A burning STARTED by the \nDavidians.\n\n\n\nIs this subject line a veiled threat against U.S. Government agents or possibly\nExecutive office leadership (i.e. Clinton)? I've considered you a bit of a loon,\nbefore, Stephen, I guess this pretty much confirms it. \n\nNice religion you have there. The only ones who should be killed are those who\ndon't agree with us. Sheesh.\n\n\n-- \n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Tom Hyatt I'm a diehard Saints fan, so i've thyat@sdf.lonestar.org suffered quite enough, thank you! Arlington, TX Help! I'm being repressed! -M.Python -------------------------------\n", "Cloak yourself in God's sustaining and abiding love. Pray, pray, pray.\nPray for your brother, that he will assume the Godly role that is his.\nPray for your sister-in-law, the what ever is driving her to separate\nyour brother and herself from the the rest of the family will be healed.\nPray for God to give you the peace in the knowledge that you may not be\nable to 'fix' it. From your description it would appear that it will\nrequire devine intervention, and the realization by your brother as to\nwhat his responsibilities are. Seek Godly counsel from your pastor, or\nother spiritually mature believer. Know always that He is akways there\nas a conforter, and will give you wisdon and direction as you call on\nHim.\n", "\n[.....]\n\n\nOooh... now THAT hurts. I will not suffer you through more naive\nand one-sided views of mine. Please skip my articles in the future\nOh Wise Tim, and have a good day.", "(oh boy. it's the [in]famous Phill Hallam-Baker.)\n\n} \n} \n} |>... but like \"basic plus\" cable, you have to tell them that you don't\n} |>want it ... for example, Hutterite colonies in western Canada are not\n} |>part of it (Mennon and Hutter were fundamentalist Protestants from\n} |>Germany whose followers left for the New World ... Mennonites are a\n} |>very diverse lot while Hutterites are similiar to the Amish). The\n} |>American idea being floated today gives you no option but to live\n} |>off the land ...\n} |>\n} |>>the selfish bastards that they are. unfortunately, that number has\n} |>>diminished recently, but once President Pinocchio gets through\n} |>>with us, i hope for a reversal of trend.\n} \n} Well here we have the right hoping for more selfish bastards. Pity they\n} don't look at what 12 years of the Regan/Bush \"selfish Bastard\" ecconomy\n} has done to the country.\n\nhow about what 25 years of tax-and-spend, big government, institutionalized\ndependency, and out-of-control good intentions at others' expense has\ndone to the country?\n} \n} Elect a selfish bastard government and they will run the country for themselves,\n} thats why they are selfish bastards. Bush and Regan gave tax breaks for the\n} ultra rich and paid for them by borrowing against the incomes of the middle\n} class.\n\nyeah, right. and Clinton is any different? please.\nhe is just a better lia... i mean, politician.\n\nyou think Slick and his gang of elitist socialist academics will lead\nus to the promised land? don't hold your breath.", "\n1. There is a similar idea here in ex-USSR about how many militioners it needs\n to place a new electric lamp. The answer is nine: one stays on a table and\n holds the lamp, four hold the table and turn it and yet four run around the\n table in opposite direction not to make the first feel bad (when being\n turned). Pitily, it lacks this kind of dark humour as Nick's msg does.\n2. To my mind the signature should be smth like:\n\n / _ __ / .\n /_______/_/_______________ /________ /____/\n /___ / _ /\n\n Albert\n", "[Interchange on Hoban deleted]\n\n\nOnly those you haven't actually read? Sorry, but the irony remains.\n\n\nSo although you don't agree with the fatwa, and apparently don't think\nRushdie should be killed for his book, yet you think he is not due\nsympathy for being being under this threat. Furthermore you base this\nreaction solely on the fact that he wrote about a particular\nwell-known story which -- if true -- might reflect poorly on the\nabsolute truth of your religion. Yet, this opinion is formed without\nrecourse to actually looking to see how the story is used in context,\naccepting at face value the widespread propaganda on just what this\nbook contains and what the author's motivations are. And then you\ncome forward and recommend another book which touches on (presumably\n\"plays with\") religious/historical material because you find its\noverall presentation neutral!", "If you want a summer without rain, you're in the wrong place. You must not\nhave been here a whole year yet. Keep the Rain-X handy my friend.\n\n\n Thatch", "\n\n(stuff deleted)\n\nMy 66 DX2 is about a week old and is custom built by me and for me.\nI am using the PC Power and Cooling CPU Cooler. This one has\nprecision ball bearings in the motor. It has a pretty substantial\nheat sink; so if it happened to fail it would still probably\ndissipate more heat than the bare chip.\n\nIt attaches with peel off adhesive. This is a full size AT case, so\nthe fan has gravity in its favor. I would be a little nervous about\nfinding the fan at the bottom of a tower case if it happened to let\ngo.\n\nAll of the CPU fans that I know of are powered from a drive cable.\nThere are other \"board\" type fans which are ISA boards with a couple\nof fans mounted on them. They are powered by the slot. I don't\nknow how effective they are; maybe someone else could comment.\n\nThe cpu is cool enough to touch with the PCP&C unit.\n\nPC-Connection at 800-243-8088 has them for 29.95 + 5.00 next day\ndelivery. The Y cord is 7.00 if you don't have a spare lead off the\npower supply. PCP&C make the best power supplies available IMHO.", "Hello,", "\nYou might visit some congregations of Christians, who happen to be homosexuals,\nthat are spirit-filled believers, not MCC'rs; before you go lumping us all\ntogether with Troy Perry. \n\nThe Lord IS working in our community (the homosexual community, that is). He's\nnot asking us to change our sexual nature, but He is calling us to practice\nthe morality that He established from the beginning.\n\nIsn't Satan having a hayday pitting Christian against Christian over any issue\nhe can, especially homosexuality. Let's reach the homosexuals for Christ. \nLet's not try to change them, just need to bring them to Christ. If He\ndoesn't want them to be gay, He can change that. If they are living a moral\nlife, committed to someone of the same sex, and God is moving in their lives,\nwho are we to tell them they have to change?\n\nThat's my two cent.", "Do you recall which issue this was in? I posted a message related to this a\nwhile back to provoke an argument so that I could get the straight dope on\nthis. This article would probably give me all the definitive answers that I\nwant.", "From article <93859@hydra.gatech.EDU>, by gs26@prism.gatech.EDU (Glenn R. Stone):\n\nI second that motion wholeheartedly. Also, how about s**tcanning the\ncigarette cops (a.k.a. as the ATF). Comments anyone?\n\n\n\nScott Kennedy, Brewer and Patriot", "\nNo, that's the point of evolution, not the point of \"natural\nmorality\". Unless, of course, as I have suggested several\ntimes already, \"natural morality\" is just a renaming.\n\n\nBut your \"yes?\" is actually stronger than this. You are\nagreeing that \"every time an organism evolves cooperative \nbehaviour\" you are going to call it a \"natural morality.\"\n\n\nBee dance is a naturally developed piece of cooperative behaviour.", "\n\n Opps! typed in the phone numbers wrong. Here are the correct numbers.\n\n\n\n 303-530-9000\n\n\n\n 505-277-6563\n", "\nI can't speak for the organizations you cited but everywhere you look in\nour society and government, one can see the relentless movement toward\none world government. The fact that the media demeans such charished \nvalues as patriotism, nationalism and protectionism are some of the\nclues. The fact that we are sapping the economic strength of americans\nto prop up a former and possibly future enemy is just another. The fact\nthe words like community of nations, global village and international\nbusiness are in vogue are others. International corporations are \ndestroying our identy and economy and the propaganda they are playing\nthrough the media and government is over powering our ability to resist.\nOur porous border both people and trade are an indiciation that we have\nalready lost a great deal of sovergnty.\n\nThe bottome line is that the single most evil aspect of One World\nGovernment is that you have nowhere to run to and history has proven\nthat would be a disaster. ", "#Frank, unless you didn't realize it, you are just now involved\n#in a debate where we have various opinions, and each entity\n#has its own frame where the opinion is expressed. I think I \n#don't need to state the dreadful r-word.\n\nSo, it's _sometimes_ correct to say that morality is objective, or what?\nAfter all, I could hardly be wrong, without dragging in the o-word.\nFor your part, when you say that relativism is true, that's just\nyour opinion. Why do folk get so heated then, if a belief in relativism\nis merely a matter of taste? (to be fair, _you_ have been very calm,\nI get the impression that's because you don't care about notions of\nobjectivity in any flavour. Right?)\n", "Does anyone know where I can access an online copy of the proposed \"jobs\"\nor \"stimulus\" legislation? Please E-mail me directly and if anyone else\nis interested, I can post this information.\n\nThanks,\n\nMike Brooks\n\nNOTE: My E-mail address in the news header is NOT correct. My correct \naddress is:", "\n\nWow, hang on a second. The libertarian party stands for personal freedom,\nlassez-faire economics and minimal government. Whoever is describing the\nself as a Libertarian (maybe you were refering to the posters who call \nthemselves civil libertarians) are not talking at all about Libertarian\nphilosophy.", "\n\nHow can you tell for sure? Three days haven't passed yet. \n\n--\nSteve Bittrolff", "\n\n\nHe'd have to go a far ways to run things down as bad as Reagan and Bush \ndid. We didn't have riots but Bush got dumped out on his spotty Behind.\n\n\nWe'll see in 4 years.\n\n\nPope Charles Slack in our time!\n\n?s\n\n", "\n\nHere is the short answer: because only\ncertain marriages are recorded in Heaven.\n\nNow for the long answer:\n\nIn Doctrine and Covenants section 132, the \nchapter discussing eternal marriage (and, yes,\nplural marriage), the distinction between\nsealings under the priesthood and other \nmarriages is revealed. \n\nWhen \"the children of this world marry, or are\ngiven in marriage\" when they receive \"the \nresurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are\ngiven in marriage\" (Luke 20:34-35).\nJesus was simply teaching that marriages \"until\ndeath do you part\" are not in force after death.\n\nHowever, the Doctrine and Covenants continues \ndescribing eternal marriage.\n\nD&C 132:19\n And again, verily I say unto you, if a \nman marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and\nby the new and everlasting covenant, and it is\nsealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise,\nby him who is anointed this power and the keys \nof this priesthood; ... [ shortened for brevity AI]\nand shall be of full force when they are out of\nthe world; and they shall pass by the angels, \nand the gods, which are set there, to their \nexhaltation and glory in all things, as hath been \nsealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a \nfulness and a continuation of the seeds forever\nand ever.\n\nThe Lord told Peter \"whatsoever thou shalt bind\non earth shall be bound in heaven\" (Matt 16:19).\nDo you doubt that Peter was given the power to \nperform sealings?\nPeter thought so because he taught that husbands\nand wives were \"heirs *together* of the grace of\nlife\" (1 Peter 3:7).\n\n\"In order to obtain the highest\" (degree of\ncelestial glory), a man must enter into this\norder of the priesthood\" (D&C 131:2).\nWhen a man and wife are sealed they truly become \n\"one flesh\" because their eternal \"increase\" \n(destinies) are enjoined completely.\n\nOur Father has an eternal companion (and maybe\nmore because of the plural marriage conditions\nof the law) who participated in our creation\nand is equally concerned with our progress here.\n\nThere is no scriptural basis for this doctrine.\nIf fact, the only mention of our Mother is in\none verse of a hymn written early in the history\nof the Church:\n\n O My Father\n\n I had learned to call thee Father,\n Through thy Spirit from on high,\n But, until the key of knowledge\n Was restored, I knew not why.\n In the heav'ns are parents single?\n No, the thought makes reason stare!\n Truth is reason; truth eternal\n Tells me I've a mother there.\n\nWhy don't we hear more about our Mother?\n\n1. Because our Father presides under Priesthood\nauthority (which is not a calling for Her);\n\n2. Because we don't all (necessarily) have the\nsame Mother it would be confusing for worship;\n\n3. Because our Father wishes to withhold Her\nname and titles because of how some people\ndegrade sacred things.", "\n\nYeah. In a fire that reportedly burned hotter than 1000 degrees-- hot\nenough to make the bodies still unidentifiable-- the authorities found\na gun that was recognizably fully-automatic and state of the art.\nIsn't that CONVEEEENIENT?", "\n\n\nIf any reliance was put on women's \"mothering instinct\" in an official\nexplanation of a govt. action during a Republican administration, would\nit generate so few complaints? (as opposed to complaints about the action\nitself)\n\n--\n\"Spending programs are now 'investments,' taxes are 'contributions,' and \nthese are the same people who say _I_ need a dictionary?\" - Dan Quayle 2/19/93", "\n\n\n What kind of brainless clod doesn't understand the difference \n between a \"PROPOSED BILL, BLOCKED IN CONGRESS\" and an \"EXECUTIVE\n ORDER, ISSUED BY CLINTON, AND CRAMMED DOWN OUR THROATS\".\n\n \n Here, let me give a remedial course in thinking:\n\n In order to create the appearance of low interest rates, Uncle Sam\n has shifted his debt from long-term to short-term securities.\n\n In effect, Uncle Sam has transformed the Federal Goverment into\n one giant S&L, waiting to blow.\n\n Short-term rates rise ---> Interest payments on Deficit rise --->\n Uncle Sammy has to borrow more ----> Causing Short-term rates to rise.\n\n Uncle Sammy gets caught in a positive feedback loop. His options:\n\n i) Raise taxes a truly unimaginable amount\n ii) Make truly unimaginable spending cuts\n\n Results of i): large numbers of pissed-off citizens\n Results of ii): large numbers of pissed-off citizens\n", "\n\n\n\n\nI think those are to make the lines more visible to airplanes and\nhelicopters... cheaper than blinking red lights.\n\n'course I could be wrong.", "\n\nDennis.\n\n\tWE agree a lot , it's just we don't both post when we agree\non something. And when we disagree, it tends to be a lot more\nnoticeable.;-)", "\nThe idea of an apostacy did not originate with Lucy Smith or Joseph\nSmith or the Mormons. The idea of a restoration was quite common\nin the early 19th century USA. Alexander Campbell, founder of the\ngroup that now survives with the name \"Disciples of Christ\" preached\nthat the primitive church had been lost and was attempting to restore\nit (although not be revelations). Many Cambellites subsequently became\nMormons, including co-founder Sidney Rigdon. Actually, you can find\nsuch sentiments in many of the early protestants of the reformation,\nsuch as Martin Luther.\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "\nAnother dodge. Oh well. I'm no match for your amazing repertoire\nof red herrings and smoke screens. \n\nYou asked for an apology. I'm not going to apologize for pointing out\nthat your straw-man argument was a straw-man argument. Nor for saying\nthat your list of \"bible contradictions\" shows such low standards of\nscholarship that it should be an embarrassment to anti-inerrantists,\njust as Josh McDowell should be an embarrassment to the fundies. Nor\nfor objecting various times to your taking quotes out of context. Nor\nfor pointing out that \"they do it too\" is not an excuse. Nor for calling\nyour red herrings and smoke screens what they are.\n\nI'm still not sure why you think I'm a hypocrite. It's true that I\nhaven't responded to any of Robert Weiss' articles, which may be due in\npart to the fact that I almost never read his articles. But I have\nresponded to both you and Frank DeCenso (a fundie/inerrantist.) Both\nyou and Frank have taken quotes out of context, and I've objected to\nboth of you doing so. I've criticized bad arguments both when they\nwere yours and I agreed with the conclusion (that the Bible is not\ninerrant), and when they were Frank's and I disagreed with the\nconclusion. I've criticized both you and Frank for evading questions,\nand for trying to \"explain me away\" without addressing the objections\nI raise (you by accusing me of being hypocritical and irrational, Frank\nby accusing me of being motivated by a desire to attack the Bible.) I\ndon't see that any of this is hypocritical, nor do I apologize for it.\n\nI do apologize, however, for having offended you in any other way.\n\nHappy now?", "\n Bobby:\n\n Get this the hell out of your .sig until you 1) learn what it\n stands for and 2) really mean it.\n\n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ \n\nBob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM \n\nThey said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,\nand sank Manhattan out at sea.", "I responded to Jim's other articles today, but I see that I neglected\nto respond to this one. I wouldn't want him to think me a hypocrite\nfor not responding to *every* stupid article on t.r.m.\n\n[dictionary definitions of \"not\" \"disagree\" and \"agree\" deleted]\n\nOh, but I'm weary of trying to wade through Jim's repertoire of \nred herrings and smoke screens.\n\nLet's see what we get when we run all four articles posted by Jim today\nthrough the 'discord' filter (a Markov chain program that Steve Lamont\nwas kind enough to send me):\n\n\tTaking action? A white geese be held\n\tas an accomplice to be held as\n\ta decision upon the door\n\tA black and white goose waddles past\n\tthe eyes of the door. \n\tHits it with the confidence interval for \n\tthat individual is held responsible \n\tfor that, that individual \n\tmay be held as a \n\tgetaway car may be held \n\tas an uncountably large number \n\tof the driver of something \n\tand agree.\n\n\tA black goose \n\twaddles past the person imprisoned?\n\n\tWhite goose waddles past the \n\tconfidence interval for the population \n\tof geese be axed, \n\tfine.\n\tAnd white goose \n\twaddles past the door.\n\nDoes running Jim's articles through 'discord' make them more\ncoherent? Less coherent?\n\nOr has 'discord' turned Jim's articles into an angst-ridden poem\nabout making choices in a world filled with uncertainty, yet being\nheld responsible for the choices we make? Do the geese symbolize\nan inner frustration with ambiguity, a desire that everything be\nblack and white, with no shades of gray? Does the \"getaway car\"\ntell us that to try to renounce the existential nature of our\nbeing is not to \"get away\" from responsibility for our actions,\nbut rather to take the role of the passive accomplice, the\n\"driver\" of the getaway car, as it were? Does the juxtaposition\nof man and machine, car and driver, reveal a subtext: an internal\nconflict between determinism and moral responsibility?\n\nOr am I reading too much into a collaboration between Jim and\na random number generator?", "\n... in response to which ...\n\n[ ... ]\n\n... and ...\n\n[ ... ]\n\n... and ...\n\n[ ... ]\n\n\nHey, guys. You're absolutely correct, and well on the way to winning\nthis battle ... and losing the war. Yes, there are serious philosophical\nflaws in HR 1276. Technical ones, too -- how'd you like to sue the Feds,\nlose, and have to pay _their_ \"reasonable Attorney's fee\" ... ? :-)\n\nStill, I have one basic question: compared to what we've _got_ is HR 1276\n(a) better, or (b) worse? This one shouldn't even take you three guesses.\n\nIf there's a good enough show of support for HR 1276, maybe for a change\n_we_ could be the ones saying \"it's a reasonable first step\" ...", "I understand that the new GPS boxes now have an option\nknown as \"differential ready\". Apparently land-based\nbeacons tranmit GPS correction information to your GPS \nreceiver (with differential option installed).\n\nHow does this system work? What frequency is used for\nthe land-based beacons?\n\nThanks in advance,", "\nFor example, I would claim that the recent assassination of four\ncatholic construction workers who had no connection with the IRA\nwas probably religously motivated.\n\n\nWhat would you call is when someone writes \"The killings in N.I \nare not religously motivated?\"\n\n\nGiven that the avowed aim of the IRA is to take Northern Ireland\ninto a country that has a particular church written into its \nconstitution, and which has restriction on civil rights dictated\nby that Church, I fail to see why the word \"past\" is appropriate.\n\n\n\nYou don't have to hand us a bunch of double-talk about what\nI was \"seemingly\" attacking. I *quoted* what I was attacking.", "ETHER IMPLODES 2 EARTH CORE, IS GRAVITY!!!\n\n This paper BOTH describes how heavenly bodys can be stationary, \nether sucking structures, AND why we observe \"orbital\" motion!!\n\n Ether, the theoretical propogation media of electro-magnetic \nwaves, was concluded not to exist, based on the results of the \nMichelson-Moreley experiment conducted a century ago. \n\n I propose that those conclusions are flawed, based on the fact \nthat the experiment was designed to look for a flow parallel to the \nearth's surface, not perpindicular. (Due to the prevailing assumption \nthat the earth traveled through the ether as a ball through the wind)\n\n The reversal of the that conclusion, a pivotal keystone in the \ndevelopment of modern scientific thought, could have ramifications \nof BIBLICAL proportions through out the WORLD!!\n\n REMEMBER: Einstien said Imagination is greater than knowledge!!\n\n \n1\n I dream like this: ether based reality\n \n The ether is like a fluid out of phase with our reality. Creations \nstart as a lattice placed into the ether. Given a spin, the lattices\nboth drag the fluid, like a margarita blender, and ingest it, \nconverting it, distilling localized mass, time and energy. \n(non-spinning lattice = \"dark matter\")\n\n The earth isn't exactly spinning, around the sun. Picture an image \nof a galaxy; we haven't any videos of them spinning. Picture us \nbeing stationary, and the sun's image being dragged across the sky by \nthe spinning ether field. (Picture an onion, each layer of which is \nspinning a little faster than the next. A thread shot at the inner \nkernel would be stretched diagonally sideways, its head being in a \nfaster shell than its tail, until it finally intersected the ground \nof the inner kernel, its direction vector being straight down, but \nits \"foot print\" being a line, not a point. [sunrise, sunset])\n \n The moon isn't exactly orbiting us. It is a parasite, (non self \nspin sustaining ) being dragged in the earth's ether field, which is \nitself in the sun's much more powerful field. Our seasons are the \nwobble of earth's axis, like a top slowing down. The \"orbit\" of the\nearth around the sun is all of the stars' images being dragged around\nby the sun's ether feild.\n\n The earth, moon and sun are about the same size and \"distance\" \napart. Its just that the time between them varies greatly, because \nthe \"path\" is not the same. The moon's lattice in the ether is like \nsticking a fork in a plate of spaghetti and giving the plate a half \nturn. The sun's lattice has so much spin that its like the fork has \ngot the whole plate of noodles wound up. The piece of light going to \nthe moon can slide down the spaghetti and maybe make a \"j\" hook at \nthe end. The piece of light going to the sun has to go around the \nwhole plate, like a needle in a record, before it gets there. \n\n With a pencil, compass, and rule, draw a diagram of how the moon \ncan be about as big as \"earth's\" shadow upon it, and at other times \ntotally eclipse the sun. Look in the sky. except for your Knowledge, \nwould you guess that they are about the same size, just because they \nlook about the same size?\n\n O . - - E O O O S\n E / \\ \n M | | OR M \n \\ _ _ / \n S \n \n The full moon, quarter moon etc. is the difference between rate\nof ether spins. What we are looking at is a rotating \"turntable view\" \nof the moon, only half of which is facing the sun. ( I've seen a \nhalf moon within about 120 degrees (of sky) of the sun, during the \nday. Try and draw that \"earth shadow.\") Its only the moon's image \nwhich appears to orbit us. No matter where it is, the light part is \nthe part facing the sun, and the dark part is the half facing away \nfrom the sun, even when it appears to be behind us.\n\n \"Light-Years\" between galaxies is a misnomer. The distance is \ncloser to zero, as time and matter are characteristics of this phase \nof reality, which dissipates outward with each layer of the onion. \n(defining edge = 0 ether spin) What we are seeing could be \nessentially happening now. The \"piece\" of light may have experienced \nmany years, but the trip could be very quick, our time.\n\n To time travel or warp space I might consider learning to \nde-spin myself. (phase out my mass) Good luck trying to design \na propulsion system to drag around a space-time locality. (its like \ntrying to move a balloon by shooting a squirt gun from within)\n\n To find out about all of this, I recommend studying history. I'd \nlook in the book of life. (or holy grail etc.) Brain waves just \nmight carry decipherable data. I'd start looking on some part of the \nspectra said to be unusable, due to all the background noise. (4+ \nbillion humans?) I'd totally isolate myself, record me thinking DOG \nbackwards, and learn to read what I got. (Microsoft Holy Grail card \nfor Pentium!)\n\n Next, concluding that my thoughts were recorded on a non time-bound \nmedia, the ether, and that it is I who move forward (in time). I \nwould try to temporarily locally reverse the flow, (of time, which \nI'd start looking for as flowing opposite magnetism, pole to pole. \n[Why not?]) perhaps by passing a LARGE, FLAT DC current through a \ntwo foot diameter. coil or choke or something, and seeing what I \ncould get with my machine's receiver next to it. \n\n If you don't think you'll live to see it, consider this: QUIT \nPUTTING THE REPRODUCTIVE KEYS OF OTHER LIFE IN YOUR BODY! All of \nlife's data could be written on the wind, (ether) not just our \nthoughts. DNA could be a little receiver or file access code. By \neating SEEDS, we could be jamming our reception, or receiving plant \ninstructions. Try eating seed bearing fruit. Maybe those Greek or \nbiblical guys did live hundreds of years. I'm curios to see what \nthey did and ate. Don't worry if your hair stops growing. (Maybe we \ndon't need to eat at all, the cosmos are formed from nothing, and \nthat is creating matter! I only need enough to bounce around. Where \ndid the household concept 'immortal' come from? Wheat is a weed, it \nis programmed to pull from the soil, reproduce like hell, and then \ndie)\n\n Warning about writing to the past:\nI had a little dream of being in a world, in the near parallel \nfuture, lying along a path of history which we have diverged from. \nThere were; twelve telepathic, glowing beings, who looked like an \nOscar award and who had always been, a dark one who looked like us, \nand then myself. The dark one was in the process of making the \nothers into gods, (he had to teach them what that meant) by \n\"advising\" them in their past. Basically, he manipulated them into \nreproducing, and raising their children on his seed. He said that \nthe little ones who looked different were a sub-species, meant to \nprovide service. He carefully combed through history, rewriting it \nin his favor, pulling like a weed anything that compromised his \ncontrol. He enticed recruits by sending them his visions, saying \nthat there was immortality at the end of the road for only twelve \nsouls: kill or be killed. The amount of control he could exert was \nfinite, though, as at every change he made, a void would appear in \nour reality. The universe one day ended 100 meters from us: it \nseemed odd, but we couldn't remember how else it should be. Then \nsome of the twelve were no more. Finally, when he could prune no \nmore, and reality stopped just beyond his fingertips, he stepped \nthrough his portal to the past, to bask, over and over, in all that \nhe had created. I made a few more changes, and lost my body, \nexisting only on the wind. \n\n MORAL: Its very possible to eliminate from your reality the souls \nwhose will's are not in harmony with yours (Golden Rule - treat \nothers as you wish to be treated) I.E., you could end up along a \nlonely thread of time with murderers or flowery brown-nosers for \nplaymates. (its not eternal, there's more than one way back) \n\n Accepting rides to the past:\nOnce here, the one who looks like us sells rides, he can make you a \nPrince, or a Queen, or you can live as a god in ancient Greece. Go \nahead, repeat the third grade as often as you like, Adam henry. \nI Hope you like inspecting your socks. Careful though, if he likes \nyour work, but thinks you're getting wise, he can direct you to cross \npaths with your old self, and you'll vanish as you rewrite your own \ncourse of history, none the wiser.\n\n As we pass the point along the parallel line where he stepped \nback in time, his hierarchy will lose its direction. He can still \nmake changes while he's here, its just that that is work, and with \nevery 'adjustment', this becomes less the world he cultivated, which \nloosens his grip, and his organization is suddenly one branch less. \nBut he can't see the change. The basic nature of man is good. He had \nto apply his hand to achieve his world. As he now tightens his hand \nto retain what he built, the more sand slips through his fingers. \n\n How about public computer access to the I.R.S. ? Its our country, \nour money, and they're spending it on us, RIGHT? Imagine this: \nWashington marks the next cost at 8, IRS collects 10, gives 5 to \ncongress, and just absolutely buries 5. Congress borrows 2. The banks \nare making, what, a 30% margin (interest) on our government? Big \ncorporations are ecstatic if they can do a 10% margin. What do the \nbanks do with it? Hold some on a carrot to the world, sure, but \nmostly, bury it. WHY? Food production is 2% GNP?, construction 6% ? 14 \nhours to build your auto? The people are spending all of their time \nto buy back a tenth of what they produce. Have we been deceived? If \nwe are more efficient, why is it getting harder to get by? What if \nthe point is just to keep the people busy making widgets? \n\n In that other reality, I shouted to the twelve, \"its chaos!\" They \nsaid, \"no, its order.\" He defined chaos as that which is he was not \nable to control.\n\n Rain forest: The problem could be that all the water in its canopy \nwould hide the location of an indigenous people who have no \nlanguage. (telepathic; and 'vanishing' the closest knowledge of death)\n(think of the spine as a transceiver, if it is on the ground and \npointed up, you can locate it from above) These people are probably \nnaive as children, but very, very tough to kill. Also, They should \nbe able to tell you stories about the dark one that I talk about. \nThey can hear him. I think that Ham and world band radio old timers \nmight have a story to tell on this. These people would be on a \ndifferent frequency than us as they aren't eating seeds.\n\n Famine relief: When I make my diet almost all whole wheat, I get a \nhuge belly, lose muscle mass, sleep A LOT, and get sick. When I eat \nonly fresh fruit, I get more energy, a Hollywood-flat belly, and \nneed a lot less sleep.\n\n UN. Peace Keeping; There is fighting and killing all over. The \ntroops go in when there is no bread on the shelf. (its OK to kill \neach other, just make sure there is enough to eat.)\n\n Somalia: What is disturbing is energetic, gun carrying, three foot \ntall sixteen year-olds, who eat nothing but some roots that they \nsuck on. It is not so much that their growth is stunted, it is that \nthey aren't dying at a rate of 50 of 60 years per life. \n\n Women with children, Babes in arms: Historical references to women \nand children as a single unit could mean that infants were not cut \nfrom the umbilical cord. (and hence, were not breast fed) I think \nthat there may be some very interesting results to this, such as \nmother-child telepathy, and blue blooded infants. There are examples \nof this practice in the aquatic mammal kingdom to investigate.\n\n That guy is the master of illusion, and the ultimate liar. He \ntells it first, and then just follows the thread of time in which \nthe people are willing to buy it. (in which he can make it so) He'll \nplay a poker face up until he thinks he's cornered, and then he'll \nwhine, beg and grovel. All it means to him is that you're willing to \nlive on the ground work that he has laid, that is, that he was \nright, and he didn't over play his hand, and he won't need to go \nback and try another thread of time. You have ultimate control over \nyour destiny, just don't live along a path that leads to a reality \nin which you don't want to be a part of. ", "THE WHITE HOUSE\n\n\n Office of the Press Secretary\n\n \nFor Immediate Release April 14, 1993\n\n\n\n PRESIDENT NAMES OFFICIALS AT \n TRANSPORTATION, COMMERCE, DEFENSE, AND OPIC\n\n\n\n(Washington, DC) President Clinton announced his intention \ntoday to nominate Albert Herberger to be Administrator of the \nFederal Maritime Administration, Loretta Dunn to be Assistant \nSecretary of Commerce for Import Administration, and Christopher \nFinn to be Executive Vice President of the Overseas Private \nInvestment Corporation. \n\n Additionally, he has approved the appointments of Joan Yim \nto be Deputy Administrator of the Federal Maritime \nAdministration, Alice Maroni to be Principal Deputy Comptroller \nof the Department of Defense, and Deborah Castelman to be Deputy \nAssistant Secretary of Defense for Command, Control, and \nCommunications.\n\n \"We are continuing to move forward with putting together a \ngovernment of excellent, diverse Americans who share my \ncommitment to changing the way that Washington works,\" said the \nPresident. \"These six people I am naming today fit that bill.\"\n\n Biographical sketches of the nominees are attached.\n\n\n\n ###\n\f\n BIOGRAPHICAL SKETCHES OF NOMINEES\n April 14, 1993\n\n\n Albert Herberger, a thirty-five year Navy veteran who \nretired with the rank of Vice Admiral, is the Vice President of \nthe International Planning and Analysis Center (IPAC). Among the \npositions he held during his naval service were Deputy Commander-\nin-Chief of the U.S. Transportation Command, Director of \nLogistics on Staff for the Atlantic Fleet Commander-in-Chief, and \nDirector of the Military Personnel Policy Division for the Office \nof Naval Operations. A surface warfare expert and a merchant \nmarine officer with over eighteen years operational experience, \nHerberger is also Vice Chairman of the National Defense \nTransportation Association's Sealift Committee. He is a graduate \nof the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy and the Naval Postgraduate \nSchool.\n\n Loretta Dunn has served on the staff of the Senate Committee \non Commerce, Science, and Transportation since 1979. Since 1983 \nshe has been the Committee's Senior Trade Counsel, responsible \nfor drafting trade legislation and reports, planning and \nconducting hearings, managing legislation on the Senate floor and \nin conferences with the House, overseeing a variety of executive \nbranch agencies, including the Department of Commerce. She was \npreviously a Staff Counsel for the Committee. Dunn holds a B.A. \nin History from the University of Kentucky, a J.D. from the \nUniversity of Kentucky College of Law, and an L.M. from the \nGeorgetown University Law Center.\n\n Christopher Finn is the Executive Vice President of Equities \nfor the American Stock Exchange. Previous positions he has held \nhave included Senior Vice President of the Air and Water \nTechnologies Corporation, Chief of Staff to Senator Daniel P. \nMoynihan, Deputy Commissioner of the New York State Department of \nEconomic Development, and Chief Legislative Aide to Congressman \nJames R. Jones. Finn is a graduate of Harvard College.\n\n Joan Yim is a professional planner with over 17 years \nexperience in community based planning, policy analysis, project \ndesign and management, inter-agency coordination and government \naffairs. From 1975-92, she was with the Hawaii Office of State \nPlanning as a planner on issues relating to natural resource and \ncoastal zone management and public infrastructure financing, \namong other issues. Currently, she is Supervising Planner with \nthe Honolulu firm of Parsons Brinckerhogg Quade & Douglas. \nBefore going to work for the state, she was Executive \nNeighborhood Commission Secretary for the City and County of \nHonolulu, and Chair on the Kaneohe Community Planning Committee. \nA Democratic National committeewoman, Yim holds a B.A. from \nConnecticut College and pursued graduate studies at the \nUniversity of Hawaii.\n\n (more)\n\f\nApril 14, 1993\npage two\n\n\n Alice Maroni is a professional staff member of the House \nArmed Services Committee specializing in defense budget issues. \nShe previously worked as a national defense specialist in the \nForeign Affairs and National Defense Division of the \nCongressional Research Service, and as an international risk \nanalyst for Rockwell International. She has written extensively \non defense budget related topics. Maroni received her B.A. from \nMount Holyoke College, and an M.A. from the Fletcher School of \nLaw and Diplomacy at Tufts University. She has also completed \nthe senior service program at the National War College and \nHarvard's Program for Senior Executives in National and \nInternational Security.\n\n Deborah Castleman is currently on leave from RAND, where she \nis a Space and Defense Policy Analyst. She was an advisor to the \nClinton/Gore campaign on space, science and technology, and \nnational security issues. Prior to joining RAND in 1989, \nCastleman held engineering positions with the Hughes Space and \nCommunications Group, General Dynamics, and Electrac, Inc. She \nserved as an Avionics Technician in the Air Force from 1974-77. \nCastleman holds a B.S. in Electrical and Electronic Engineering \nfrom California State Polytechnic University, M.S. in Electrical \nEngineering from the California Institute of Technology, and M.A. \nin International Studies from Claremont Graduate School.", "I think this didn't get posted before (I've been reading\nUSENET for the longest time, but never had much interest in posting\nuntil recently). This is what I typed before:\n\n\tI have written Mr. Limbaugh before, and I loathe to use the\nname Rush in association with him, because he is unworthy to have a\nname in common with some of the greatest musicians in our time, the\nBAND, Rush. \n\tHis address, as some of you wanted is:\n\t70277.2502@compuserve.com\n\tHe has been to wrapped up in himself to respond to me, but\nmaybe some of you will have better luck. :) bye!\n--\n\tg'bye for now...\n\n\t-=I Tree I=- a.k.a. Andy Novak\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\n anovak@titan.ucs.umass.edu \n anovak@twain.ucs.umass.edu\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\n--\n\tg'bye for now...\n\n\t-=I Tree I=- a.k.a. Andy Novak\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\n anovak@titan.ucs.umass.edu \n anovak@twain.ucs.umass.edu", "Posted by Cathy Smith for L. Neil Smith\n\n WEIRD SCIENCE\n\nEveryone knows how to tell when a politician is lying: his lips \nmove. What may not be equally obvious is that there are \npoliticians and then there are politicians -- and that the phrase \n\"political science\" is subject to more than one interpretation. \n\nYears ago, we heard how \"scientists\" were worried that a new Ice \nAge might be coming, and later on that \"nuclear winter\" -- smoke \nand dust thrown into the atmosphere by full-scale international \nunpleasantness -- was a possibility. Something like that may even \nhave killed the dinosaurs. \n\nWhat we didn't hear was that no actual data supported any of this, \nthat real-world events (the burning of Kuwaiti oil fields) tended \nto discredit it, that mostly it was propaganda meant to weaken \nvalues that made America the most successful culture in history, \nand that the dinosaurs probably died of something like the Plague \nwhen continents drifted together, exposing them to new germs. \n\nWe miss a lot like this, unless we listen closely. Prince William \nSound, site of the famous oil spill, and Mount St. Helen's weren't \nsupposed to recover from their respective disasters for at least \n100 years. That turned out not to be true, although you'd never \nknow it from watching network nightly news or CNN. It doesn't fit \ntheir agenda to inform us that the earth is vast and resilient, and \nthat nature is rougher on herself than we could ever be. \n\nBut for once, the media aren't entirely to blame. As ignorant of \nscience as they are of everything, they trust \"scientists\" to \nunscrew the inscrutable. The trouble is that today's \"scientists\" \nhave agendas of their own. \n\nNobody in government, that wellspring of scientific wherewithal, is \ngoing to offer grants to an investigator who states truthfully that \nthere is no respectable evidence for \"global warming\". The money \nand power for bureaucrats and politicians lie in mass transit, and \nthey hate the automobile -- blamed as a major cause of the mythical \ncrisis -- as a source of privacy and freedom they find intolerable. \n\nThe same appears true of \"acid rain\", a deliberate hoax cooked up \nby the Environmental Protection Agency (which hates private \nindustrial capitalism almost as much as it does your car) and \nfoisted on real scientists through trickery which has depended on \nspecialists in different fields not talking to each other much. \n\nThe list goes on, always with a common, disreputable thread. \n\"Ozone depletion\", for which evidence is even more suspect and \ncontradictory than for acid rain or global warming, is no more than \na last, desperate attempt to indict private capitalism in an era \nwhen state central planning and the command economy have failed and \ncan only find this final, withered leg to teeter on. \n\nDecades of anti-nuclear alarmism, resting on foundations of myth \nand panic-mongering, have failed to erase the fact that nuclear \npower is the safest, cleanest, most efficient source of energy \nknown to mankind -- and more to the point, that the greater amount \nof energy there is available to any individual in society, the \nfreer that individual -- and his society -- become. \n\nHonest studies on the effects of individual gun ownership and \nself-defense on crime -- conducted by investigators who began as \nideological opponents to those concepts, but which show massive \nreductions in the latter to be the result of the former -- have \nbeen suppressed, most recently by the California state government. \n\nAnd what the media didn't say about recent EPA \"discoveries\" on the \neffect of \"secondhand smoking\" is that, although some harm to non-\nsmokers may have been detected, it was less (by an order or two of \nmagnitude) than that associated with frying bacon a couple times a \nweek or keeping a pet bird. It's enough to make you wonder whether \nthere was ever anything to the claim that smoking causes cancer. \n\nThat, of course, is the real threat represented by politically \ncorrect science. The world is a dangerous place. It would be nice \nto know the hazards. I've never believed smoking to be a healthy \npractice, but, given a lack of credibility on the part of today's \nscience, how am I to decide what to do about it? Nicotine is \nhighly addictive, to that much I can attest from experience. Yet \nthe stress of quitting may be riskier than to continue. There \nisn't any way to tell, thanks to the corrupting influence of \ngovernment money on the scientific establishment. \n\nTwo centuries ago, the Founding Fathers spared us certain agonies \nto which every other nation in the world has been subject at one \ntime or another, by creating a legal barrier between politics and \nreligion. Each time some short-sighted individual or group has \ntried to lower the barrier (most recently over the issue of \nabortion), blood -- real human blood, hot and smoking in the street \n-- has wound up being shed. \n\nReal human blood is being shed over scientific issues, as people's \nlives are ruined through the loss, to agencies like the EPA, of \nlivelihood, or property it may have taken a lifetime to accumulate, \nto diseases caused by toxins associated with burning fossil fuels \nfor electrical power, or thanks to bans on things like cyclamates, \nwhen they die from the effects of obesity. \n\nWhat we need now, if we hope to survive as a civilization for two \nmore centuries, is another barrier, a Constitutional separation of \nstate and science -- including medicine. Knowledge is valuable; \nreal science won't languish for lack of funding. The money will \nsimply come from contributors unwilling to pay for lies, and \neveryone will benefit. \n\nL. Neil Smith\nAuthor: THE PROBABILITY BROACH, THE CRYSTAL EMPIRE, HENRY MARTYN, \nand (forthcoming) PALLAS\nLEVER ACTION BBS (303) 493-6674, FIDOnet: 1:306/31.4\nLibertarian Second Amendment Caucus\nNRA Life Member", "(excess stuff deleted...)\n\n \n\nI know of a similar incident about 3 years ago. A climatologist( Ithink \nthat was his profession) named Iben Browning predicted that an earthquake \nwould hit the New Madrid fault on Dec.3. Some schools in Missouri that were \non the fault line actually cancelled school for the day. Many people \nevacuated New Madrid and other towns in teh are. I wouldn't be suprised if \nthere were more journalists in the area than residents. Of course, teh \nearthquake never occured. HOw do I know about his? I used to live in \nSouthern Illinois and the lican middle school was built directly on the \nfault line. No we still had school... We laughed at the poor idiots who \nbelieved the prediction. :):):):)\n\nBob, if you're wanting an excuse to convert to Christianity, you gonna have \nto look elsewhere.", "\nAccording to the 1990 Harvard Alumni Directory, Mr. O'Keefe failed to\ngraduate. You may decide for yourselves if he was indeed educated\nanywhere.", "I had a question abo", "I don't want to attack anyone's personal opinions and thus have not\nincluded any articles - but it seems to me incredibly ridiculous\nand pompous for someone to sit back with the benefit of hindsight\nand point fingers at Clinton, Reno, the FBI, or whomever.\n\nFirst of all, it is a knee-jerk judgement. The facts are quite\nmuddled at this point and will likely be for quite a while.\n\nSecondly, things do not improve by pointing blame and accusatory\nfingers. Pointing fingers is a destructive action. If everyone\nsat around pointing fingers all the time, nothing would get done\nand nothing would ever get any better. And despite the tragedy,\nwe can learn something from this - if it is approached in a \nconstructive manner. Doesn't it seem that working together is\nmore productive than working against one another?\n\nThirdly, it seems incredibly hypocritical to place blame given\nthe benefit of hindsight - something that those who made the\ndecisions did not have the benefit of. Why not give them the courtesy\nof acknowledging that they did the best they could with the\ndata they had - in a very, very difficult situation. Some\nresponses have gone so far to suggest that the actions were done\nwithout regard for the lives of the people in the compound - give\nme a break.\n\nBe part of the solution - not the problem.\n\nAnd that's MY opinion -", "This was posted to the firearms-politics mailing list.\n=============================================================\nHi Folks;\n\nThursday, April 15 marked Day 3 of the trial.\n\nThis day marked the first testimony of the trial. Deputy\nU.S. Marshal Larry Cooper took the stand for the prosecution.\n\nThe short version is that his testimony was consistent with\nthe opening statements for the prosecution.\n\nCooper testified that he had arrived in Spokane (Washington)\non August 17, 1992 to participate in a surveillance operation\nwith five other deputies near the Weaver cabin. The team was\nusing night vision equipment for surveillance, and split up\ninto two teams of three people. The six later met at an\nobservation point above the cabin. After this, deputies\nCooper, William Degan, and Arthur Roderick began a descent to\nscout further possible surveillance sites.\n\nCooper told the court that Roderick threw two large rocks into\na gully to see, \"whether the [Weaver family] dogs would respond.\"\nStriker, the Weaver's yellow lab, started toward them barking\nloudly. Roderick led the three in a run from the area.\n\nThey ran through some dense woods into an open area [called the\n\"fern field\"] with the dog in pursuit. By this time, Kevin\nHarris and Samuel Weaver had joined the chase. The surveillance\nteam had reached a Y in the road: Cooper decided that they should\ntake cover in the woods because otherwise they would be an easy\ntarget and might be \"shot in the back.\"\n\nAs Degan reached the Y, he spotted Randy Weaver coming down the\nroad from the cabin ahead. Weaver was startled but did not fire.\n\nAt this moment, Striker reached Degan, and Cooper had to \"fend\nhim off with his gun.\" [It is unclear whether this means he\nclubbed the dog or shot the dog]. Both Cooper and Degan then\ntook cover in the woods. According to Cooper, Kevin Harris and\nSamuel Weaver continued walking down the road, apparently not\nnoticing the two. After they had passed by on the road, Degan\ngot up on one knee, raised his gun, and shouted, \"Stop! U.S.\nMarshal!\" Harris then \"...brought the weapon around at hip level\nand fired. He didn't bring the weapon up to eye level. I saw\nBill's arm going back, and I knew he had been hit.\" Cooper fired\nat Harris, and Harris went down. Cooper then brought his weapon\nto bear on Samuel, but did not fire. At this point, Cooper then\nheard two shots to his right. Samuel Weaver looked in the\ndirection of the shots, yelled, \"You son of a bitch!\" and ran\ntoward them. Cooper then realized that shots were coming at him\nfrom directly ahead, so he fired a three-round burst at the\ncabin. At this point he then saw Samuel Weaver running toward\nthe cabin. When Cooper reached Degan, he placed his first two\nfingers on Degan carotid artery, counted two or three beats, and\nthen his heart stopped. Shortly thereafter, Roderick and the\nother three marshals joined him. They then all heard a large\nburst of gunfire from the area around the cabin.\n\nOn cross-examination, David Nevin questioned the point of\nthrowing rocks into the gulley, asking, \"You wanted to lure that\ndog out so you could shoot that dog, didn't you?\" Nevin also\npointed out that in last September's testimony, Cooper had\nclaimed that he spotted Weaver after the dog had left him.\nCooper claimed that he had gone over the events in his head and\ndecided that Thursday's account was correct. Nevin continued the\ncross-examination by asking what Cooper would have done had an\narmed man dressed in full camouflage jumped out of the woods at\nhim [no answer was available].\n\nFriday, April 16 marks continued cross-examination of Cooper.\n\nNotes: There was no coverage of protestors.\n\nDrew\n==============================================================\n", "I participated a promotion by a company called Visual Images. \nThey sent me a award certificate three months ago and asked \nme to buy their promotion package in order to receive the major\naward. They mislabled my address and I did not receive my package\nuntil one month ago. I was mad and angry about how it took them\nso long to get my package. So I wrote them a letter and requested\nfor a refund. They never return my letter. I was lucky enough to\nfind out their telephone number through operator and received the\npackage. I immediately returned the package and wrote them another\nletter to ask for refund. The package was returned because they\naddress they put on the package was incorrect. I attempted to \ncall them and learnd that they have changed their telephone number.\nIt took me at least 10 phone calls to find out their new number,\nbut they refused to take any responsibility. I spoke to their\nmanager and she said she would call me back, but she has not call\nyet. But I was able to get their address from their front desk.\nShould I just go ahead and send the package? Or should I waite until\nthey call me back?\n\nI know there are several people on the net has experience with the\nsame company. I would like to know how they got their money back.\nIf you have similar experience, please advise me.\n\nThanks in advance,", "Re: Flaming wreckage\n\nI wrote my congressmen strongly worded letters demanding they dissolve the\nBATF.\n\nPerhaps anger and grief can help spur a letter writing campaign?", "\n#In article <93109.231733ISSCCK@BYUVM.BITNET> \"Casper C. Knies\" As a Latter-day Saint, I found John's statement *not at all* ludicrous...\n#>\n#>Please allow me to explain myself. In 1838, the governor of Missouri,\n#>governor Boggs, issued his so-called \"Mormon extermination order.\" The\n#>only crime (\"illegal activity\") the Latter-day Saints had committed, was\n#>their religious affiliation, their anti-slave stance (Missouri still\n#>allowed slave practices), and their growing numbers/influence in Missouri.\n#>\n#>I guess the Mormons \"got what they deserved,\" because they refused to bow\n#>to the will of (corrupt and evil) secular authorities. This \"disobedience\"\n#>brought upon them persecution, murder, and finally forced expulsion from\n#>their lands and settlements...\n#\n#It is significant to remember that these secular positions were held by\n#\"average\" people, and that at the time, almost all Americans were pretty\n#homogeonously Christian. It was largely the mainstream Christian's disgust\n#at such practices as polygamy which resulted in their irrational hatred.\n\nTrue, but that is exactly the \"problem\": the Mormon extermination order\nwas issued not just by a Christian, it was ALLOWED under the Constitution\nof the United States, which was instituted precisely to prevent incidents\nlike this \"order\" from occurring in the first place... As I indicated in\nan earlier posting, your \"irrational hatred\" is clearly evidenced by\nindividuals like Robert Weiss (who could have been Gov. Boggs' Lieutenant;\nhe would have fitted right in, drewling et al), and seems a modern-day\noccurrence, based on results (slander, persecution, misrepresentation,\nlies, denying Mormons representation in their own user group, etc. etc.\n\nIn intent and purpose, what really has changed?\n\n#The situation is not entirely different today. Many irrational feelings\n#and beliefs are justified through religion. I don't think most of them\n#are started because of religion, but religion certainly helps justify and\n#perpetuate prejudices and practices by providing a neat justification\n#which discourages critical thought.\n\nTrue, as evidenced by numerous examples, as I am sure you're aware.\n\n#>In any regard, Mormon history alone indicates that secular authorities (and\n#>I don't even discuss how Uthan's were suckered into allowing part of their\n#>lands in becoming nerve-gas and atomic bomb testing grounds...) is far from\n#>being trusted or righteous. Have things really changed for the better? I\n#>may be a born cynic, but I have NO reason whatsoever that such has been the\n#>case. In the early 1980s, I believe, the late President Kimball (lds church\n#>leader) strongly protested federal attempts to locate the MX-\"Peace Keeper\"\n#>missile maze from being built in Utah (yet another \"inspired\" decision from\n#secular authorities). Fortunately, his opposition was influential enough\n#for the feds to back off.\n#\n#Do you mean that the \"secular authorities\" are some continuous group of\n#people with the common and uninterrupted goal of harrassing/eradicating the\n#Mormons? Do you honestly believe that the main reason for using Utah for\n#nuclear testing etc.. was to \"get them thar Mormons\"? And what about the\n#majority of Uthan's who aren't Mormons? You seem to be searching for enemy\n ^^^^^^^^\n(Correction: the majority of Utahn's ARE Mormon (60-70% I believe, up to a\n 100% in many cities and settlements throughout the Western states.)\n\n#conspiracies. It is paranoid to believe that everything that affects you\n#badly must have been done primarily for that purpose.\n\nWhat I mean is that secular authorities are to be watched, as we believe\nthat Satan has been given some power and dominion over the earth to divert\ntruth, judgment, and justice. In addition, we believe that the adversary\nhas power to influence the unjust and idolatrous (greed for money would be\na good example) in order to bring about persecution, war, oppression, and\nevil combinations. As an intelligent being, don't you suppose that the\ndestroyer would yield his influence foremost on those with political power?\n\nAs far as Utah is concerned, what I pointed out were some horrible examples\nof environmental nightmares imposed upon by secular authorities, which have\nbrought death, disease, (i.e. the \"downwinders\") and environmental contami-\nnation. I am hardly \"paranoid,\" I am just not \"expecting\" too much from a\nsecular government that may not share our values and faith, and which indeed\n(as Gov. Boggs et al.) may be out to harm and destroy us. As a matter of\nfact, prophecies in my church indicate that in future years, (global)\npersecution against Mormons will so increase in intensity and scope, that\n(paraphrasing) \"all those who wish to escape persecution and murder must\nflee to Zion.\" Zion (the \"pure in heart\") will be re-established in those\ndays, and it AIN'T our current secular authorities who will rule over it...\n\n#>... David Koresh did NOT pose a great\n#>threat to the federal authorities or the security of this nation, and with\n#>John, I too wonder who or what's next...\n#\n#I personally feel that we should try to stop anyone who is a threat to the\n#life of even one person. Sure, he did not pose a threat to the security of\n#this nation. But he did pose a threat to the lives of his followers. That\n#much is definite.\n\nHmmm. \"definite\" by whom? --Until such has been established beyond reason-\nable doubt, this alleged \"threat\" may have been less than the \"threat\"\nimposed upon him and his followers by the BATF and FBI...\n\n#>Who killed who? What constitutional right did the ATF officers have to\n#>invade upon private land and to force themselves into the compound?\n#>What REALLY caused the \"murder\" of the little children? Could it be that\n#>the ATF/FBI presence has any bearing upon the events? How would you\n#>interpret the Mt. Masada events? --Blame the Jews? (What the heck did\n#>the Romans do there anyway? What business did the ATF/FBI has in Waco,\n#>Texas???) The Branch Davidians NEVER posed any threat to society.\n#\n#This is like asking who REALLY caused the deaths of the Israeli Olympic\n#team in 1976? In that case, the police botched the job as well. But to\n#lay a heavier burden on them than the terrorists would be a terrible\n#mistake. I think the same sort of reasoning applies in this case.\n#Certainly, if David Koresh chose any peaceful option, the ATF and FBI\n#would have complied. The responsibility is more his than the authorities.\n\nCome now, at issue is in how much the authorities escalated an otherwise\npeaceful stand-off: \"let's get it over with, and \"force\" David Koresh to\ncome out???\" --By gassing them??? Were they naive, or what? They played\nright into the hands of an apocalyptic-thinking individual (he had prepared\nhis people for this eventuality for years), and not *one* firetruck or plan\nwas in place to deal with this scenario??? I feel that the authorities\nhad \"some\" responsibility to protect their own citizens, even if they were\nreligious zealots, and guilty of ... not paying a $200 gun license???\n(Has the BATF become an extension of the local tax-collectors?)\n\n#>David Koresh, no doubt, will be described as the \"evil\" guy (by the\n#>executioners), while the actions of all those \"valiant and brave\" officers\n#\n#Characterizing the ATF/FBI as executioners is inaccurate and unfair. In\n#order to be an executioner, the least one must have done is have the intent\n#to kill.\n\nQue?? --Intrusion into private property with semi's, loaded with life\nammunition, isn't that implicit \"intent (or at least \"prepared\") to kill\"?\nI ask you, would the BATF warrant stand up in a civil court of justice?\nI do not mind if criminals (such as dangerous drug lords) are brought to\njustice, but escalating events to the point of allowing to, if not compli-\ncity with, the destruction of a people?\n\n#--\n#*Isaac Kuo (isaackuo@math.berkeley.edu) * _____\n#*\"How lucky you English are to find the toilet so amusing.* ______//_o_\\\\__\n#* For us, it is a mundane and functional item. For you, *(==(/___________\n#* the basis of an entire culture!\" Manfred von Richtofen * \\==\\/ \\\n", "\n\nIt was around 1969 in the Shenandoah Valley near Woodstock, Virginia. Me,\nmy wife, a friend, his wife, and his 2 kids were hiking in a totally\ndesolate mountain area. All of a sudden, large rocks began raining down\non us. Looking up, we saw at least 3 punks gleefully letting loose rocks\nfrom what was an obvious stash. They were a couple hundred feet above us.\nMeanwhile, the women and kids were screaming and running for cover and the\npunks were shrieking with laughter. Me and my friend yelled for them to\nknock it off. They responded that we should \"Get f***ed!\". Me and my\nfriend drew our pistols and fired a couple of times into the trees above\ntheir heads. They ran. With no more 3-5 pound rocks coming at our heads,\nwe proceeded on our journey.\n\nSorry, but me and my friend saw no need to let it evolve to a more\n\"violent\" level than we were already experiencing. I guess we should\nhave tried harder to understand and cope with the anger that society\nhad instilled in them and was driving them to do such things. Guess\nthat's a cross I'll have to bear.", "\n\nWhat evidence are you aware of. What was reported in the media, or all of\nthe evidence that was presented at the trial.\n\nThis sounds to me a lot like the first Rodney King 5 trial. A bunch of people\nwho saw 10 to 15 seconds out of a several minute long video, decided that\nthey knew more than people who had sat through a two week trial.", "\n\n\n\n\nI have written a program and I want to market it. I would like certain degree\nof protection, since my main custmers are individuals and not the \ncooperations. I know laser hole burning method, and hardware key method,\nhowever, my software is going to cost only $15.00, so I can not afford that.\nAlso, at this low price I can not afford people make too many copy of my\nsoftware. Well, I guess say upto %20 illigal copying is ok by me.\n\nHowever, I do not want someone to get a copy of PCTools and copy my software. \nOff course, I never meant to forbid the true hackers from copying, since they\ncan develope a better program anyway.\n\n With highest regards,\n Babak Sehari.\n\n", "\n\n\n\nWhich provided the basis for the denoument of the film which\nintroduced Errol Flynn to the world. (Love interest was Olivia de\nHavilland, who went on to appear with Flynn in 7 more films.)\n\n[Exercise for non-old-movie buffs: what film was this?]\n[Exercise for old movie buffs: what were the 7 more films?]", "[William Christie asked about the Essene NT.\nAndrew Kille reponded\n--clh]", "\n[massive dan blather mercifully deleted.]\n\n\n\n\nLast time I checked, \"amassing an arsenal\" and practicing any kind of\nreligion were mentioned in passing in the Bill of Rights. Guess it's\nOK with you if we just brush 'em aside in order to justify killing\na bunch of religious nutcakes, eh?\n\nOf all the idiots I run into in daily life, Dan, your type scare me the\nmost. You'll accept expediency and a coward's safety over any belief\njust as long as the government tells you to. You assume that anyone who\ndoesn't comform to your beliefs and ways of thinking are wrong and\ntherefore bad. Worse, you seem to accept without question what the\ngovernment says is wrong to be wrong.\n\nDavid Koresh's religion was not mine but then again, neither are the baptists,\nmethodists, catholics or any of the rest of the corporate religions. BUT\neven though Koresh's, the Baptists, the methodists, etc, don't believe\nthe same way I do, I recognize that their religions are equally valid\nto mine and more importantly are equally protected under the 1st Amendment.\nYou see, I'm not that much different than Koresh and I suspect many others\nfit the same catagory. I read the Bible many times and as I learned \nfrom it, I discovered that a lot of what corporate religions practice\njust isn't justified by MY interpretation of the Bible. Therefore I go\nmy own way. So did Koresh. And neither you nor I nor anyone else,\neither individually or collectively as the great socialist \"we\" has ANY \nRIGHT WHATSOEVER to tell me or you or Koresh that our religions are wrong.\n\nYou seem to think that it would have been oh so easy for the Davidians to\njust forsake everything they believed in and walk out of their compound\nin order to \"save themselves\". Think (if you're capable) for a moment\nabout some belief you hold dearest. Would you abandon that belief if\nsuddenly told to do so by the government? If you would do so you are\nbeneath contempt. Let's assume you have a belief that you hold dear\nenough to commit your life to. Do you think it would be the correct\ncourse of action for your government to initiate actions specifically\ndesigned to force you to make that \"forsake or die\" decision?\n\nThe \"forsake or die\" option is exactly what the government forced on the\nDavidians the day the first wave of black-clad stormtroopers fired that\nfirst shot and tossed that first grenade. The FBI clenched it on Day 51\nwhen they sent in heavy armor against 80-some-odd men, women and\nchildren holed up in a rickety old building and armed with small arms. The\npeople who stayed, who held to their beliefs over personal safety, whose\nindividual personal honors demanded they die rather than submit, who\nbelieved that the Bill of Rights meant exactly what it says, to those\npeople go my deepest respect, regardless of their religion. People like\nyou who blithely blow off the murder of 80 people with \"well they could\nhave come out\" get my most scornful contempt. I'd spit in your face\nwere there not a network between us. You're not worth the ashes of\nthose people who burned.\n\nJohn", "\nEven more interesting: the SMTP server at csrc.ncsl.nist.gov no longer\nrecognizes the 'expn' and 'vrfy' commands...\n\n telnet csrc.ncsl.nist.gov smtp\n Trying 129.6.54.11...\n Connected to csrc.ncsl.nist.gov.\n Escape character is '^]'.\n 220 first.org sendmail 4.1/NIST ready at Tue, 20 Apr 93 17:01:34 EDT\n expn clipper\n 500 Command unrecognized\n\nSeems like sombody didn't like your snooping around, Marc.", "\n[ ... Mr. Mamaysky's proposal to forbid \"any action which serves to promote a\n morally incorrect action\" omitted for brevity ...]\n\nI prefer the freedom granted in the first amendment of the US\nConstitution to an arbitrary definition of \"universal morality.\"\nSteve\nP.S. I can elaborate in e-mail if this isn't clear\nP.P.S. I'm very sorry about misspelling your name", "I need quotes from Jefferson, Hamilton, Madison, or any of the other founders,\nthat support the idea that the Second Amendment was written into the\nConstitution so that the populace could protect itself it the government\nbegan to degenerate into tyrrany. If you have any (with sources), please\nmail them to me. Thanks.\n", "(MODERATOR: THIS IS A REPLACEMENT FOR AN EARLIER, MORE CLUMSILY WORDED\nSUBMISSION ON THE SAME TOPIC WHICH I SUBMITTED A FEW MINUTES AGO.)\n\nI think we need to distinguish etymology from meaning. Regardless of\nhow the word 'Easter' *originated*, the fact is that it does not *now*\nmean anything to Christians other than 'the feast day of the Resurrection\nof Jesus Christ'. \n\nThe meaning of a word is _only_ what people understand it to mean.\n\nAnd the same goes for other cultural practices. The festival of Easter\nmay possibly have some historical association with some pagan festival,\nbut *today* there are, as far as I know, no Christians who *intend* to\nhonor any kind of \"pagan goddess\" by celebrating Easter.\n\nIt is nonsense to say \"this word (or this practice) 'really' means so-\nand-so even though nobody realizes it.\" Words and practices don't mean\nthings, people do. \n\n(This is basic semantics; I'm a linguist; they pay me to think about\nthings like this.)\n-- \n:- Michael A. Covington, Associate Research Scientist : *****\n:- Artificial Intelligence Programs mcovingt@ai.uga.edu : *********\n:- The University of Georgia phone 706 542-0358 : * * *\n:- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** ** <><", "\nTrue.. but what about showing the missing part of a leaf? Is this\n\"corona discharge\"?\n\n\n", "\nYes, but typically they *don't*. Not every wild flight of fancy serves\n(or can serve) in the appropriate relation to a hypothesis. It is\nsomewhat interesting that when anyone is challanged to provide an\nexample of this sort the *only* one they come up with is the one about\nKekule. Surely, there must be others. But apparently this is regarded\nas an *extreme* example of a \"non-rational\" process in science whereby\na successful hypothesis was proposed. But how non-rational is it?\n\nOf course we can't hope (currently at least) to explain how or why\nKekule had the daydream of snakes in the fire biting their tails.\nSurely it wasn't the *only* daydream he had. What was special about\n*this* one? Could it have had something to do with a perceived\n*analogy* between the geometry of the snakes and problems concerning\ngeometry of molecules? Is such analogical reasoning \"extra-scientific\"?\nOr is it rather at the very heart of science (Perice's notion of abduction,\nthe use of models within and across disciplines)? Upon close examination,\nis there a non-rational mystical leap taking place, or is it perhaps\ncloser to a formal (though often incomplete) analogy or model?", "reconditioned at a\n(still\nWell, sounds like we need some kind of a Lemon Law on the hardware\nindustry. After all it does sound unfair to me for someone that has\npaid the price of a new drive for a reconditioned one. What do you\nguys think?\n", "\nAAAAAAAAAAAA! RUN! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!\n\n\n\nThen why are they in the process of systematically dismantling some of\ntheir socialistic health care systems through privitization of key components?\n\n\nIf I hold a gun to your wife, would you respond the same way? I don't\nthink so. While the age of aquarius may have hit the White House, the\nage of peace love and harmony hasn't hit in South Central LA nor has it\nhit in former Yugoslavia. And as long as there are people in the world\nwho would rather see me dead than thrive, I want the protection of a\npolice force who will keep the peace so I *can* make love without being\nshot.\n\n\nThe ultimate statement for equal rights (something many of the feminazis\nhave forgotten) is \"I do not care if you are either a man or a woman,\nI do not care if you are black or white, I do not care if you are gay\nor straight.\" Once you can honistly say \"I do not care about color,\nrace, or gender or sexual preference\", then we will truly be on the\nright track.\n\nKeep shoving differences in my face and then expect us all to get along?\nGet real! So long as you try to make me care if you are black, female,\nor whatever, I am going to continue to balk. It's natural human behaviour.\n\nBut the moment employers searching for employees, banks looking to lend\nmoney, and theClinton administration looking for appointees can honistly\nsay \"I do not care about your color, race, gender, or sexual preferences;\nI instend instead to treat you as a human being,\" crap like last year's\nriots will continue to happen.\n\n\nBarf.\n\nYou mean the same economic theorists who say things like \"for the sake\nof convenience in mathematical modeling we will first assume there is\nno wealth creation\" now get a crack at implementing their PhD thesis in\nreal life?\n\nGo back to your textbooks on macroeconomic theory. Look in the first chapter\nof that book, introducing the field of macroeconomic theory. Right there\nin chapter 1, section 1, is a statement like the following:\n\n\t\"As it is difficult to predict and model wealth creation,\n\tespecially in an economy where wealth creation is inherently\n\tthe province of individuals who create new inventions and\n\tdiscover new ideas, we will assume for the rest of this\n\tbook that there is no wealth creation.\n\n\t\"We do not assume the lack of weath creation in the real world,\n\thowever the mathematical modeling of such an inherently\n\tunpredictable subject is impossible. Even though we assume\n\tno wealth creation, we do believe that for most mathematical\n\teconomic modeling such an assumption is reasonably valid\n\tas it allows us to make predictions which then can be tested.\"\n\nSo the guys who are running the store for Clinton and company are now\nassuming that wealth creation does not exists. They are (borrowing an\nidea from the Hitchhiker's Guide) too advanced to think of these simple\nthings.\n\nTo be honist, I would rather have an engineer with years of experience\nbuilding bridges design the next bridge, rather than a theoretical\nphysicists with a freshly minted PhD and no experience do the same job.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t- Bill Woody", "\nJust because they can do it anyway, somehow, does not mean it is smart to make\nthe job easier for them.\n--\n\"On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Leftover Turkey!\nOn the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Turkey Casserole\n that she made from Leftover Turkey.\n[days 3-4 deleted] ... Flaming Turkey Wings! ...\n -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait)", "Some sick part of me really liked that phrase....", "\nI asked him, and Don Cherry denies being Roger Maynard and he denies\nany knowledge of Usenet. :-)", " \n \n As far as I know, there is no FAQ for tpg. Somebody was working\non one, but I think it \"died in committee.\"\n ", "The dead giveaway is the repeated protestations that the new plan is aimed\nat \"criminals\", \"drug dealers\", \"terrorists\", etc. You'd think the tactic\nwould be too obvious to trot out yet again after a decade of Sarah and the\nrest of the Brady Bunch using it to destroy the Second Amendment, but evidently\nthe control nuts feel it will serve them one more time.", "Todays New York TImes just wrote about a pact being negotiated \nbetween us and the Russians to develope High Temperature\nGas Cooled Fission Reactors using Re-Cycled Weapons Grade plutonium\nfrom Warhead stockpiles. THe fuel will be pelletized in ceramic\nfor safety, and then after depletion will be sufficiently\ncontaminated with by-products to make extraction of the remaining\nplutonium hazardous enough to deter re-use.\n\nApparently the project will be led by General Atomics of San Diego\nwith funding from the US GOvernment. THe pilot plant will be built\nand operated by the russians.", "##I strongly suggest that you look up a book called THE BIBLE, THE QURAN, AND\n##SCIENCE by Maurice Baucaille, a French surgeon. It is not comprehensive,\n##but, it is well researched. I imagine your library has it or can get it\n##for you through interlibrary loan.\n##\n\n I shall try to get hold of it (when I have time to read of course :-)\n\n##In short, Dr Baucaille began investigating the Bible because of pre-\n##ceived scientific inaccuracies and inconsistencies. He assumed that\n##some of the problems may have been caused by poor translations in by-\n##gone days. So, he read what he could find in Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic.\n##What he found was that the problems didn't go away, they got worse.\n##Then, he decided to see if other religions had the same problems.\n##So, he picked up the Holy Qur'an (in French) and found similar prob-\n##lems, but not as many. SO, he applied the same logoic as he had\n##with the Bible: he learned to read it in Arabic. The problems he\n##had found with the French version went away in Arabic. He was unable\n##to find a wealth of scientific statements in the Holy Qur'an, but,\n##what he did find made sense with modern understanding. So, he\n##investigated the Traditions (the hadith) to see what they had to\n##say about science. they were filled with science problems; after\n##all, they were contemporary narratives from a time which had, by\n##pour standards, a primitive world view. His conclusion was that,\n##while he was impressed that what little the Holy Qur'an had to\n##say about science was accurate, he was far more impressed that the\n##Holy Qur'an did not contain the same rampant errors evidenced in\n##the Traditions. How would a man of 7th Century Arabia have known\n##what *not to include* in the Holy Qur'an (assuming he had authored\n##it)? \n##\n\n So in short the writer (or writers) of Quran decided to stay away from\nscience. (if you do not open your mouth, then you don't put you foot into\nyour mouth either). \n\n But then if you say Quran does not talk much about science, then one can\nnot make claims (like Bobby does) that you have great science in Quran.\n\n Basically I want to say that *none* of the religious texts are supposed to\nbe scientific treatises. So I am just requesting the theists to stop making\nsuch wild claims.\n\n--- Vinayak\n-------------------------------------------------------\n vinayak dutt\n e-mail: vdp@mayo.edu\n\n standard disclaimers apply", "\nIt seems to deter those who are executed from future criminal activity.\n\n\nWhy don't you compare the rates at which blacks and whites commit crimes?\nBlacks commit crimes disproportionately, so in a perfectly fair penal\nsystem, blacks would be disproportionately represented.\n\n(Note: black vs. white crime rates is not a racial thing. It's probably\nan economic thing: poor people are more likely to commit crimes, and blacks\nare more likely to be poor. The way to reduce the proportion of minorities\nin prison is to increase the wealth of minorities.)", "\n[The only reason for the death penalty is revenge?? If you are going to\ntry to refute a position, try to refute the whole position or acknosledge\nthat you are only speaking to small piece of the problem. Broad sweeping\n\"the only reason, \" etc on as tough nut to crack as the death penalty\nreallly doesn't help much.\n\nEvery year the FBI releases crime stats showing an overwhelming amount of\ncrime is committed by repeat offenders. People are killed by folks who\nhave killed (who knows how many times) before. How aobut folks who are for\nthe death penalty, not for revenge, but to cut down on recidivism?]", "\nWhat about the land mines which have already been mentioned?\n\n\nOh, very neat. Dismiss everything I say unless I can prove beyond a shadow\nof a doubt something which you yourself admit I can never prove to your\nsatisfaction. Thanks, I'll stick to squaring circles.\n", "--\n", "\nNote that \"scientific evidence\" in this area does not prove any conclusions.\nThere has been evidence to suggest that a certain part of homosexual's\nbrains are different from heterosexuals- but that proves very little.\n\nAlso notice that the apostles did not have with them the \"scientific\nevidence\" linking certain genes with alcoholism, or stealing with certain\ngenetic problems. Even if they did have scientific evidence, I doubt it\nwould have stopped them from communicating the teaching from the Holy \nSpirit that these things are sinful.\n\nThis reminds me of a conversation with a professor of mine. He said \nsomething very true. Christianity teaches that we should not give in\nto our every inclination. Most people do give in to their leanings.\nIn Christianity, we have the concept of struggling with the flesh,\nand bringing it into submission. One person may have a problem with\nhis temper, and having a murderous heart, another may have a problem\nwith homosexuality, another may be inclined to greed. But God offers\nus the opportunity to be more than conquerers.\n\n\nThe preying mantis bites the head off of her mate after she mates\nwith him. Is it natural for a woman to do the same thing to her husband?\nThe Bible is concerned with human morality, and only touches on animal\nmorality as it relates to humans.", " \n\n\nYo--earth to Clayton--*my* philosophy? I have never discussed this with you.\nI know it's a minor point, but, gee, dude, you have no idea what economic\nand political principles I adhere to. But don't let that stop you--you're on a\nroll. Just ascribe to me whatever you want--I know you'll choose wisely.\nAfter all, I *do* believe in personal responsibility.\n\n\n\nDuh. What else would you *expect* a socialist to do?\n\n\n\n\n(a) Just when and where have I encouraged people not to be responsible\nfor themselves? Be specific--but do make up random dates and heinous\nacts as you see fit.\n\n(b) You and I have encouraged many people to do many things. How does that\nin any way make our audiences less responsible for their actions? Is there\na finite amount of responsibility, so (cf. conservation of energy) as\nI become more responsible for an occurrence by encouraging it the actual\nperpetrator becomes correspondingly less so? At what point does the\nperpetrator become completely innocent altogether? You know, this lends\na whole new meaning to the term \"the moral high ground\".\n\n\n\n\nI will pass the info on. Out of curiosity, what kind of jobs would these\nbe? What's the demographic mix wrt race, age, culture?\n\n\n\nLife's a bitch, ain't it? Man, you've got to get out of Fornicalia--have\nyou considered someplace perhaps geographically distant but politically\nmore friendly to you, like, say, Indiana? Or maybe Utah?\n\n\n\nI don't doubt it, but unless you can show me statistics to the contrary\nI will persist in my apparently dogmatic socialist belief (hey, if *you* say\nso) that most AFDC money really does--for better or worse in the long\nterm--feed FDCs. ", "Quoting pla@sktb.demon.co.uk in article <8AOHOnj024n@sktb.demon.co.uk>:", "\n\n------------ Part 11 of 14 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End of part 11 of 14 --------\n", "[...stuff deleted...]\n\nThank you. I thought I was in the twilight zone for a moment.\nIt still amazes me that many people with science backgrounds \nstill confuse the models and observables with what even they\nwould call the real world.\n\n-jim halat\n\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n\n\n\n\n\n", "Joe,\n\n As usual, this issue of dysfunction, of bad values, of messed up culture \nis easily embraced by non african americans when it comes to explaining\nproblems in our community. From your post, you apparently find the idea that\nsomething is wrong with African Americans, value-wise, culture wise or\nsomething, very appealing. I never cease to be amazed at how eager non african\namericans are to embrace theories about our problems which basically assert\nthat something is wrong with us. The socio-economic factors which we know help \nto produce high crime levels, like poverty, which exists among us in large \nproportion, I mean when it comes to discussion of african american problems, we\nsomehow become exempt from all these types of factors, and the problem is \nlaid at the doorstep of some neboulous dysfunction we supposedly have. But \nnobody attributes crime amongst white americans to dysfunction. No, that has \nsocioeconomic factors to it, but for africa americans, its gotta be a \ndysfunction.\n\nBasically, I think this tendency for non african americans to believe that\nsomething is wrong with us exists because non african americans don't want to\ndeal with the possiblility that the society is deeply biased against african\namericans, and that this is about 80% of the problem. It could not possible be\nthat the society is so deeply racist and structured against us, that this has\na very effective negative effect on us. No, something is wrong with us.\nNon african americans are quick to disregard what we have to say, because they \nare so busy trying to find something wrong with us, instead of taking a good \nhard look at the thing we say are doing us damage. I would get angry if it \nwerent' so damn typical.", "Go easy on him drieux. It is the right of every American to\nknow nothing about anything. \n\n\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\"Who said anything about panicking?\" snapped Authur. Garrett Johnson\n\"This is still just culture shock. You wait till I've Garrett@Ingres.com\nsettled into the situation and found my bearings.\nTHEN I'll start panicking!\" - Douglas Adams ", "\nNo. I see many of the same groups protesting both. I also know people\nwho feel exactly the opposite (i.e., treat citizens better than Saddam).\n\n\nHey! Sect changes are still illegal in Texas!\n-- ", "\nHow about a group called talk.that.thomas.parsli.approves?\n-- \nClinton Administration e-mail addresses | clintonhq@campaign92.org (MCIMail)\n provided as a public service by | 75300.3115@compuserve.com (CompuServe)\n Jon Edward Shum (jon@mitre.org) | clintonpz@aol.com (America Online)", "All of the arguments concerning the Sabbath ought to make the point\npretty clear - anyone outside of the Catholic or Orthodox orAnglican or\nMonophysite churches ourght to worship on Saturday if they are really\nsola scriptura. Otherwise, they are following a law put into effect by\nthe Church, and only the above Chruches really recognize any power of\nthe Chruch to do so.\n\nAndy Byler\n\n[You will note that nothing in the FAQ said anything about the Church\nestablishing or changing a law. The argument against the Sabbath is\nthat it is part of the ceremonial law, and like the rest of the\nceremonial law is not binding on Christians. This argument is based\non Paul's letters, Acts, and in a more general sense, Jesus'\nteachings. Further, most people argue that Scripture shows worship\noccuring on Sunday, and Paul endorsing it. I understand that these\npoints are disputed, and do not want to go around the dispute one more\ntime. The point I'm making here is not that these arguments are\nright, but that the backing they claim is Scripture.\n\nAccepting the principle of \"sola scriptura\" does not commit us to\nobeying the entire Jewish Law. Acts 15 and Paul's letters are quite\nclear on that. I think even the SDA's accept it. The disagreement is\non where the Bible would have us place the line.\n\nBy the way, Protestants do give authority to the church, in matters\nthat are not dictated by God. That's why churches are free to\ndetermine their own liturgies, church polity, etc. If you accept that\nthe Sabbath is not binding on Christians, then the day of worship\nfalls into the category of items on which individual Christians or\n(since worship is by its nature a group activity) churches are free to\ndecide.", "/(me)\n\n/(hudson)\n/Why does that make something immoral?\n\n\n\nBecause you are not being consistent. Moral systems must be consistent.\n\nA person who thinks they can inflict pain on others, but doesn't want it \ninflicted upon themselves, has a double standard. And double standards are\na violation of *any* moral system.\n\n\n\n\n\n(me)\n\n/(hudson)\n/Of course we don't like pain. I don't like brussel sprouts. Are brussel\n/sprouts immoral?\n\nPain isn't immoral, stupid. Pain itself is just a physiological\nreaction. \n\nWhat >>is<< immoral is subjecting unwilling individuals to pain.\n\nOr brussel sprouts, for that matter.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n(hudson)\n(me)\n\n/(hudson)\n/Why would it be wrong to make humans undergo the effects of the reactions\n/if humans are composed only of matter? \n\nWhat humans are composed of isn't the qualifying criteria of whether or\nnot something would be wrong. \n\n\n\n\n/(hudson)\n/Is it wrong to make matter undergo chemical reactions?\n\nYes, if it is sentient matter.\n\n\n\n/(me)\n/>Nature is not a sentient force; there is no choice involved. Therefore,\n/>no question of morality.\n\n\n/(hudson)\n/I actually heard a geologist entertain the notion that matter had a will.\n/There is some sentient force out there. \n\nFine. I have also heard that the government is encoding the DNA for \na new race of superhumans in ordinary drinking water. \n\nWhat's your point?\n\n\n\n/(hudson)\n/If humans are made only of matter, then choices are also chemical reactions,\n/so why is choice an important issue.\n\nAnd if that is the case, then god is only an idea contained in the minds\nof people (formed of matter) and on printed pages (also formed of matter)\nand does not really exist. ", "from alt.law-enforcement\n\n\n\n\n\n\n-- ", "\n\nHey don't confuse these guys with facts dude! You might break some\nbeautiful illusions!\n\nOf course by BATF admits this they mean that the BATF did not deny some\npost by a pro-Koresh/gun lobby person some time back.\n\nIf anyone wants to understand the paranoid mindset of Koresh I offer you\ntalk.politics.guns. There you can dredge the sewers of minds so hung\nup on power and ego trips that they bend reality arround their own\nparticular set of beleifs.\n\nI long ago gave up arguing the case for arms control directly. Instead\nI invite people to ask themselves, would you want to be in a room full\nof the occupants of talk.politics.guns, their personal armouries and\nattempt to enter a discussion with them?\n", "\nReading this definition, I wonder: when should you recognize something\nas being a \"mistake\"? It seems to me, that proponents of pseudo-sciences\nmight have their own ideas of what constitutes a \"mistake\" and which\ndiscoveries of such previous mistakes they accept.\n", "Report them to your local BBB (Better Business Bureau).", "I just bought a little gizmo that is supposed to be installed \"in\nseries with the tip or ring lines\" of the phone wire. Which ones are\nthose? Suppose I am holding a regular phone wire, such that the little\nplastic tooth (on the little plastic square thing with the naked lead\nends that you plug into the phone) is facing down, and away from me.\nWhich of the 4 wires that I see is the \"tip\" and which is the \"ring\"?\nPlease reply to mlevin@husc8.harvard.edu.", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\tAlan, you can start by teaching your children that the perpetrators\nof crimes no more represent the \"Black community\" than racist hateful Whites\nrepresent the majority culture (although there are many ethnic minorities\nwho have fallen into the very trap that you are struggling with, and believe\notherwise). The trap is the easy way out.\n\tFor yourself, I think it would be a good idea to realize that the\ndemographics related to the crimes you speak of have less to do with race,\nand much to do with socioeconomic status and disenfranchisement. You're\ngoing to find higher crime within *any* community comprised of *any* ethnic\ngroup or subgroup that has become dysfunctional, whatever the factors\nleading to that dysfunction. With ethnic minorities it is more usually than\nnot, as I said, socioeconomic disenfranchisement.\n\tIf, for example, you lived in an area where there were very few\nBlacks, but quite a few poor-for-generations Whites, you'd see the crime\nstatistics reflecting the dysfunction of those White people. Would you then\nworry about whther your children would begin to see Whites as undesireable\nor whatever? The trap springs into action when our innate compunction to\ndefine \"us\" and \"other\" raises its little voice. The trap becomes dangerous\nwhen we stop to listen to that little voice and stop thinking like rational\nhumans.\n\tIt's interesting that Blacks are traditionally seen as *the* or the\n*most* criminal element in many of our urban areas. I don't know the racial\nmakeup of Phoenix, so I can't speak to your situation. However, I live in\nSan Francisco, a city that loves to tout its \"ethnic diversity\". Here, we\nhave Black gangs, Hispanic gangs, Asian (yes, the \"model minority\") gangs,\nand even a few White gangs. The Asian gangs have become a particularly\ntroublesome element for law enforcement here, mainly due (I think) to their\npropensity for engaging in organized criminal activities. But ask people on\nthe street and they'll, 8-out-of-10 times, tell you that Black gangs and\ncrime are what they most fear. During the \"disturbance\" in Los Angeles last\nyear many of the rioters and looters were not Black. Some were even White! I\nremember being amazed at television news scenes that showed looting mobs\nwhere there were maybe one or two Blacks at most! My perceptions, gleaned\nfrom TV news, were further corroborated by numerous friends and relatives\nthat live in Los Angeles. This may have been the country's first truly\nmulti-ethnic riot. Yet I know from face-to-face and online discussion that\nin the minds of America the popular perception is that it was a *Black*\nriot!\n\tIn closing, I'd like to say that you raise some interesting points\nthat really need discussion. Our country has spent too long ignoring the\nracism (and its attendant ills) that is very much a part of our culture. As\na people, we are afraid to face up to some hurtful truths, and the problem\nbecomes compounded *daily*. We cannot afford to do it much longer. I truly\nbelieve that the well-being of ALL OF US depends on changing our current\ncourse of denial and repression.\n\tI wish you and your children, and all other people, of *all* colors,\nluck in avoiding the \"trap\". \n\tPeace, my brother.\n\t\t\tm.\n-- \n\n\n", "\n [excellent and helpful list deleted] \n\n\n Wes's list is of \"do\"s and \"don't\"s for writing your Congressional\nrepresentatives is a fine one but I'd like to encourage people to pay\nextra attention to the point above. As cliched as the saying may be\nit's nevertheless true that you can catch more flies with honey than\nwith vinegar.\n\n While the writing styles prevalent on the net possess a certain charm\nplease remember that the person reading your letter is likely to be\nuninfluenced or negatively influenced if you express your concerns in\na way that makes you sound like a flake or a paranoid crackpot. Wild\nand unsupported accusations about the menace from the NSA will not\ncarry much weight, nor are overblown conclusions about the inevitable\nconsequences of the proposal likely to convince (especially not ones\nthat attempt strained analogies to the rise of the Nazi party. Please\nsave the Niemoller quote for another letter..)\n\n If you want your opinions to be taken seriously it is *very* important\nthat you state those opinions in a manner that is understandable and \nseems reasonable to a layman. Don't overburden your reader with technical\ndetails or expect them to know the history of various encryption \ntechnologies. Before you mail it, hand your letter to a non-technical\nfriend and ask them to sanity-check it.\n\n Above all, realize that legislators are often motivated as much by\nself-interest as by anything else. Try to point out risks in terms that\nwill be meaningful and motivating to them such as the loss of individual\nprivacy rights or the damage restrictive export regulations do to American\nbusinesses' ability to compete in the global marketplace. Pull the \nstrings that you think will work with your legislator -- if your\nlegislator is unlikely to be swayed by civil-rights concerns then point out\nhow a government-granted monopoly for Mycotronx damages the competitiveness\nof businesses in your district that manufacture or market phone or crypto\ntechnology.", ": >After agreeing to terms I signed the contract and drove home in my new\n: >car. Later that same night I noticed that the terms in the were\n: >different from the terms I had agreed to. (I made the stupid mistake\n: >of not checking everything on the contract). This all happened last\n: >Saturday.\n: >\n: >I have heard that there is a \"cooling-off\" law allowing me three days\n: >to reconsider the contract. Is this true? Can anyone point me to the\n: >law? The transaction happened at the dealership, if it matters.\n: \n: This cooling off period applies only in certain situations - lik ewhen\n: you are solicited at home. I also think the cooling off period ends\n: if you actually accept the merchandise.\n: \n: If this were not the case, any car buyer would have the right to return\n: a slightly used, highly devalued, car 2 days after buying it. Yeah - \n: that's the trick - if I want to buy a new car, I'd have a firend buy \n: & return one, then go in and negotiate a better deal on a pre-owned\n: used car.\n\nHowever, if you agree some terms, and then, when about to sign, the\ndealer slips you a contract with different terms, and leads you to\nbelieve that it embodies the terms you verbally agreed to, that\nis fraud. There is no 3 day limit on restitution for fraud.\n\nYou may have to sue (and win) to get out of this. You will almost\ncertainly have to threaten to sue.\n-- ", "\nNot at all. Two weeks ago I registered a concern about some programming\nthat was being conducted by a student organisation here at the\nUniversity of Texas at San Antonio. As a result, I was interrogated\nby the capus police, who also attempted to create a positive-identification\nfile (photo, fingerprints, etc.). I refused to permit this, and filed a\ncomplaint with the University administration. The Vice-President for\nBusiness Affairs (the 'boss' of the campus police) stated that he had no\ninterest in the legal/Constitutional implications of those actions.\n", "\nScience is the process of modeling the real world based on commonly agreed\ninterpretations of our observations (perceptions).\n\n\nValues can also refer to meaning. For example in computer science the\nvalue of 1 is TRUE, and 0 is FALSE. Science is based on commonly agreed\nvalues (interpretation of observations), although science can result in a\nreinterpretation of these values.\n\n\nThe values underlaying science are not objective since they have never been\nfully agreed, and the change with time. The values of Newtonian physic are\ncertainly different to those of Quantum Mechanics.", "\n\n\n\n\nYes.\n\n\nI don't know where Douglas Adams took it from, but I'm pretty sure he's\nthe one who launched it (in the Guide). Since then it's been showing up \nall over the place.", "\n\n\n\nThis is a very good point. I have already made the clear claim that\nKhomeini advocates views which are in contradition with the Qur'an\nand have given my arguments for this. This is something that can be\nchecked by anyone sufficiently interested. Khomeini, being dead,\nreally can't respond, but another poster who supports Khomeini has\nresponded with what is clearly obfuscationist sophistry. This should\nbe quite clear to atheists as they are less susceptible to religionist\nmodes of obfuscationism. \n\nSo, to answer your question, the only way you can judge is by learning \nmore about Islam, that is by reading the Qur'an and understanding it's \nbasic principles. Once one has done this it is relatively easy to see \nwho is following the principles of Islam and who is acting in a way at \nodds with Islam. Khomeini by attributing a superhuman status to twelve \nmuslim historical leaders is at variance with one of basic principles \nof Islam, which is that no human being is metaphysically different than \nany other human being and in no sense any closer to God in metaphysical \nnature.\n", "The following statement was released\non February 27,1992 by the Science &\nEnvironmental Policy Project\n\nAs independent scientists researching atmosphere and climate problems, we are \nconcerned by the agenda for UNCED, the United Nations Conference on \nEnvironment and Development, being developed by environmental and activists \ngroups and certain political leaders. This so called \"Earth Summit\" is \nscheduled to convene in Brazil in June 1992 and aims to impose a system of \nglobal envionmental regulations, including onerous taxes on energy fuels, on \nthe population of the United States and other industrialized nations.\nSuch policy initiatives derive from highly uncetain scientific theories. They \nare based on the unsupported assumption that catastrophic global warming \nfollows from the burning of fossill fuels and requires immediate action. We \ndo not agree. \nA survey of U.S. Atmospheric scientists, conducted in the summer of 1991, \nconfirms that there is no consesensus about the cause of the slight warming \nobserved during the past century. A recently published research paper even \nsuggests sunspot variability (which is directly proportional to solar \nactivity), rather than a rise in greenhouse gases is responsible for the \nglobal temperature increases and decreases recoded since about 1880.\nFuthermore, the majority of scientific participants in the survey agreed that \nthe theoretical climate climate models used to predict a future warming \ncannot be relied upon and are not validated by the existing climate record. \nYet all predictions are based on such theoretical models.\nFinally, agriculturalits generally agree that any increase in carbon dioxide \nlevels from fossil fuels burning has beneficial effects on most crops and on \nworld food supply.\nWe are disturbed that activists, anxious to stop energy and economic growth, \nare pushing ahead with drastic policies without taking notice of recent \nchanges in the underlying science. We fear that the rush to impose global \nregulations will have catastrophic impacts on the world economy, on jobs, \nstandards of living, and health care, with the most severe consequences \nfalling on developing countries and the poor.\nDavid B. Aubrey, PhD, Senior Scintist, Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute. \nNathaniel B. Guttman, PhD, Research Physical Scientist, National Climatic \nData Center. Hugh B. Ellsaesser, PhD, Meteorologist, Lawerence Livermore \nNational Laboratory. Richard Lindzen, PhD, Center for Meteorology and \nPhysical Meteorolgy, Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Robert C. \nBalling, PhD, Director, Laboratory of Climatology, Arizona State University.\nPatrick Micheals, PhD, Assoc. Professor of Environmental Sciences, \nUniversityy of Virginia. Roger Pielke, PhD, Professor of Atmospheric Science, \nColorado State University. Micheal Garstang, PhD, Professor of Meteorology, \nUniversity of Virginia. Sherwood P. Idso, PhD, Research Physicist, U.S. Water \nConservation Laboratory.\nLev S. Gandin PhD, Visiting Scientist, National Center for Atmospheric \nResearch. John A. McGinley, Chief, Forecast Research group, Forecast Systems \nLaboratory, NOAA. H. Jean Thiebaux, PhD, Research Scientist, National \nMeterological Center, National Weather Service, NOAA. Kenneth V. Beard, PhD, \nProfessor of Atmospheric Physics, University of Illinois. Paul W. Mielke, Jr. \nPhD, Professor, Department of Statistics, Colorado State University. Thomas \nLockhart, Meteorological Standards Institute.\nPeter F. Giddings, Meterologist, Weather Service Director. Hazen A. bedke, \nMeteoroligist, Former Regional Director, National Weather Service.\n\n\nGabriel T. Csanady, PhD, Eminent Professor, Old Dominion University. Roy \nLeep, Executive Weather Director, Gillet Weather Data Services. Terrance J. \nClark, Meteorologist, U.S. Air Force. Neil L. Frank, PhD, Meteorologist, \nNational Weather service. Bruce A. Boe, PhD, Director, North Dakota \nAtmospheric Resource Board. Andrew Detweiler, PhD, Assoc. Professor, \nInstitute of Atmospheric Sciences, South Dakota School of Mines And \nTechnology.\nRobert M. Cunningham, Consulting Meteorologist, Fellow, American \nMeteorological Society. Stephen R. Hanna, PhD, Sigma Research Corporation, \nElliot Abrams, Meteoroligist, Senior Vice President, AccuWeather, Inc. \nWilliam E. Reifsnyder, PhD, Consulting Meteorologist, professor Emeritus, \nForest Meteorology, Yale University. David W. Reylnolds, Research \nmeteorologist. Jerry A. Williams, Meteorologist, President, Ocean Routes, \nInc.\nLee W. Eddington, Meteorologist, Geophysics Division, Pacific Missile test \nCenter.Werner A Braum, PhD, Former Dean, College of Arts & Sciences, Florida \nState University.David P. Rodgers, PhD, Assoc. Professor of Research \nOceanography, Scripps Institution of Oceanograghy. Brian Fiedler, PhD, Asst \nprofessor of Meteorology, University of Oaklahoma.\nEdward A. Brandes, Meterologist. Melvyn Shapiro, Chief of Meteorological \nResearch Wave Propagation Laboratory, NOAA. Joesph Zabransky, Jr., Associate \nprofessor of Meteorology, Plymouth State College. James A. Moore, Project \nManager, Research Applications program, national Center for Atmospheric \nResearch. Daniel J McNaughton, ENSR Consultating and Engineering. Brian \nSussman, Meteorologist, Fellow, American Meteorologist, fellow, American \nMeteorological Society. H Read McGrath, PhD, Meteorologist. Robert E. \nZabrecky, Meteorologist.\nWilliam M. Porch, PhD, Atmospheric Physicist, Los Alamos national \nLaboratory. Earle R. Williams, PhD, Associate Profesor of Meteorology, Dept. \nof Earth, Atmospheric, and Planetary Sciences, Massachusetts Institute of \nTechnology. S. Fred Singer, PhD, Atmospheric Physsicist, University of \nVirginia, Director, Science & Environmental Policy Project. (Affilitions \nlisted are for identification purposes only).\n", "tes:\n.\ns.\n\nOr mug me.\n\nWhy must you pursue this fantasy that all crime is derived from \"underground \neconomies\".\n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nHaaahaaaahaaaa\n\n\nYeah buddy, this happens all the time. Tell me, HAS IT EVERY REALLY HAPPENED \nTO YOU? That's what I thought.\n\n\nYour foolish.\n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nMust I ask again, what part?\n\n\nAll I ask is that drugs stay illegal. I don't think it's too much to ask.\n", "Perhaps it's prophetic that the week \"Where are they now?\" appears and\nI can claim to be a still-active old-timer, my news software gets bit\nrot and ships outgoing articles into a deep hole somewhere... Anyway,\nhere's a repost:\n\n\nThese days you don't have to fall far behind... Last Monday\n(admittedly after a long weekend, but...) I had 800+ messages just in\nthose few days. Aside from a hiatus while changing jobs last Fall\nI've been here since 1990.\n\n\nHell, Norway? The rubber room at the funny farm? Seminary? It is\nnot given to us to know...", ".. \n\nThese seem hardly like the groups to discuss this in, but HUH??? \nAll legitimate power to enforce these rights derives from the consent \nof the governed, not from no steenkin' piece of paper. Civilized gov'mnt \nis not an autonomous computer program, it's interactive. The Constitution \nwas made by the people and can be trashed by us - it ain't no sacred \nscripture from which rights flow. Our 'rights' come from our souls. \nAnd I sure didn't see any request to vote on trashing the sky. \nAgain - my opinion only - we keep our rights by using them, not going to \nsome court. \n\n", ": The Selective Service Registration should be abolished. To start with, the\n: draft is immoral. Whether you agree with that or not, we don't have one now,\n: and military experts agree that the quality of the armed forces is superior\n: with a volunteer army than with draftees. Finally, the government has us\n: on many lists in many computers (the IRS, Social Security Admistration and\n: Motor Vehicle Registries to name a few) and it can find us if it needs to.\n: Maintaining yet another list of people is an utter waste of money and time.\n: Let's axe this whole department, and reduce the deficit a little bit.\n\nLet me say this about that, as a retired Navy officer; \n\nI agree. Cut it. But let's not stop there. \n\nEliminate the C-17 transport. Overwight, overdue, overbudget, it was\nsupposed to carry tanks. New tanks are now too big for the airplane. \n\nScrap the Seawolf SSN-21 nuclear submarine. The breakup of the USSR has\nleft us with a number of sticky military problems, but NONE of them will\nrequire \"God's gift to submarines\". \n\nGround the B-2 stealth bomber. I'm sure it's a great airplane that will do\nEVERYTHING its designers said, but at half-a-gigabuck a copy, we can't\nafford for even ONE to crash. And airplanes DO crash. \n\nElmo Zumwalt said it best 20+ years ago; \"High/Low\". A MIX of a FEW\nextremely capable weapons systems and a LOT of CHEAPER,\nmoderate-capability systems. \n-- \n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\nKen Mitchell | The powers not delegated to the United States by the\nkmitchel@netcom.com| Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are\nCitrus Heights, CA | reserved to the States respectively, or to the People.", "Hi I am a Sociology student and I am currently researching into \nyoung offenders. I am looking at the way various groups of \nchildren are raised at home. At the moment I am formlulating \ninformation on discipline within the Christian home.\n\nPlease, if you are a parent in this catagory can you email me \nyour response to the following questionaire. All responses \nwill be treated confidentially and will only be used to prepare \nstats.\n\n1. Ages & sexes of children\n\n2. Do you spank your kids?\n\n3. If so how often?\n\n4. Do you use an implement to spank with? \n\n\n5. If you do not spank, what method of discipline do you use?\n\n6. Your age?\n\n7. Your location\n\n8. While under the age of 16 did you ever commit a criminal \noffence?\n\n9. How ere you disciplined as a kid\n\n\nThank you in advance for any reply you can make. Please e-mail \nyour replies rather than post them on the newsgroup", "\n\nI think they are really neat to put onto key rings. When somebody\nmakes the mistake of asking about it, you can *totally* geek out.", "\n\n\n\n\nOh, then, I guess that shooting THOSE kind of babies is all right.\n\nYou sick bastard.\n-- ", "\nThe rights guaranteed by the Constitution were considered to be\npre-existing. The only agreement was that they exist. Therefore, no\nlaw grants such rights. Laws can only guarantee, protect, or infringe\nsuch rights.\n\n\nWebsters Third New International Dictionary of the English Language,\nUnabridged 1986\n\ninfringe\n 1.a. to break down:DESTROY\n b. DEFEAT, FRUSTRATE\n c. CONFUTE, REFUTE\n d. IMPAIR, WEAKEN\n 2. to commit a breach of : neglect to fulfill or obey : VIOLATE,\n TRANSGRESS\n vi : ENCROACH, TRESPASS\n\ninfringement\n 1. the act of infringing : BREACH, VIOLATION, NONFULFILLMENT\n 2. an encroachment or trespass on a right or priveledge : TRESPASS\n ~~~~~\n \nNow, by what stretch of the imagination do you get your ideas about\ninfringement of rights? ", "I can't imagine why someone would leave their computer on all of\nthe time to start with. Its like leaving your lights tv, radio\nand everything in the house on all of the time to me.....Nuts", "consistently\n\n\n", "\nTell that to the Japanese, their local market is neatly protected by\nthe Japanese government. Its one very tough nut to crack. In fact\nthe only current way to break into it, is to do it with a Japanese\ncompany as a partner in the venture.\n \nGary\n\n-- ", "The subject line says it all.\n\n\t/Thanks", "---\n\nI was wondering, what copy protection techniques are avaliable, and how\neffective are they? Has anyone have any experience in this area?\n\n With highest regards,\n Babak Sehari.\n\n", "Archive-name: typing-injury-faq/changes\nVersion: $Revision: 1.3 $ $Date: 1993/04/13 04:12:33 $\n\nThis file details changes to the soda.berkeley.edu archive and summarizes\nwhat's new in the various FAQ (frequently asked questions) documents.\nThis will be posted monthly, along with the full FAQ to the various net\ngroups. The various mailing lists will either receive the full FAQ\nevery month, or every third month, but will always get this file, once\nper month. Phew!\n\n============================================================================\nChanges to the Typing Injuries FAQ and soda.berkeley.edu archive, this month\n============================================================================\n\na few new files on the soda.berkeley.edu archive\n the TidBITS \"Caring for your wrists\" document\n RSI Network #11\n Advice about \"adverse mechanical tension\"\n More details about the new Apple keyboard\n more info about carpal tunnel syndrome (carpal.explained)\n more general info about RSI (rsi.details, rsi.physical)\n\n marketing info on the Vertical\n MacWeek article the Bat\n\nnew details on hooking a normal PC keyboard to an RS/6000\n\nupdated pricing info on the DataHand and Comfort\n\nHalf-QWERTY now available for anonymous ftp on explorer.dgp.toronto.edu\n\nnew GIF picutures!\n The Apple Adjustable Keyboard\n The Key Tronic FlexPro\n another picture of the Kinesis\n The Vertical\n The Tony!\n\n============================================================================\n\nIf you'd like to receive a copy of the FAQ and you didn't find it in the\nsame place you found this document, you can either send e-mail to \ndwallach@cs.berkeley.edu, or you can anonymous ftp to soda.berkeley.edu\n(128.32.149.19) and look in the pub/typing-injury directory.\n\nEnjoy!\n", "Well, the message was interesting (and long), but TWICE? Oh Well. Personally,\nI loathe libertarianism, but my disagreement is philisophical, not tactical.\nElection law reform is a good idea. You would not believe what kind of stunts\nthe creatures of the 2 party system are capable of pulling.\n============================================================================\nDavid Matthew Deane (deane@binah.cc.brandeis.edu)", "Archive-name: cryptography-faq/part04\nLast-modified: 1993/4/15\n\n\nFAQ for sci.crypt, part 4: Mathematical Cryptology\n\nThis is the fourth of ten parts of the sci.crypt FAQ. The parts are\nmostly independent, but you should read the first part before the rest.\nWe don't have the time to send out missing parts by mail, so don't ask.\nNotes such as ``[KAH67]'' refer to the reference list in the last part.\n\nThe sections of this FAQ are available via anonymous FTP to rtfm.mit.edu \nas /pub/usenet/news.answers/cryptography-faq/part[xx]. The Cryptography \nFAQ is posted to the newsgroups sci.crypt, sci.answers, and news.answers\nevery 21 days.\n\n\nContents:\n\n* In mathematical terms, what is a private-key cryptosystem?\n* What is an attack?\n* What's the advantage of formulating all this mathematically?\n* Why is the one-time pad secure?\n* What's a ciphertext-only attack?\n* What's a known-plaintext attack?\n* What's a chosen-plaintext attack?\n* In mathematical terms, what can you say about brute-force attacks?\n* What's a key-guessing attack? What's entropy?\n\n\n* In mathematical terms, what is a private-key cryptosystem?\n\n A private-key cryptosystem consists of an encryption system E and a\n decryption system D. The encryption system E is a collection of\n functions E_K, indexed by ``keys'' K, mapping some set of\n ``plaintexts'' P to some set of ``ciphertexts'' C. Similarly the\n decryption system D is a collection of functions D_K such that\n D_K(E_K(P)) = P for every plaintext P. That is, succesful decryption\n of ciphertext into plaintext is accomplished using the same key\n (index) as was used for the corresponding encryption of plaintext\n into ciphertext. Such systems, wherein the same key value is used to\n encrypt and decrypt, are also known as ``symmetric'' cryptoystems.\n\n* What is an attack?\n\n In intuitive terms a (passive) attack on a cryptosystem is any method\n of starting with some information about plaintexts and their\n corresponding ciphertexts under some (unknown) key, and figuring out\n more information about the plaintexts. It's possible to state\n mathematically what this means. Here we go.\n\n Fix functions F, G, and H of n variables. Fix an encryption system E,\n and fix a distribution of plaintexts and keys.\n\n An attack on E using G assuming F giving H with probability p is an\n algorithm A with a pair f, g of inputs and one output h, such that\n there is probability p of computing h = H(P_1,...,P_n), if we have\n f = F(P_1,...,P_n) and g = G(E_K(P_1),...,E_K(P_n)). Note that this\n probability depends on the distribution of the vector (K,P_1,...,P_n).\n\n The attack is trivial (or ``pointless'') if there is probability at\n least p of computing h = H(P_1,...,P_n) if f = F(P_1,...,P_n) and\n g = G(C_1,...,C_n). Here C_1,...,C_n range uniformly over the possible\n ciphertexts, and have no particular relation to P_1,...,P_n. In other\n words, an attack is trivial if it doesn't actually use the encryptions\n E_K(P_1),...,E_K(P_n).\n\n An attack is called ``one-ciphertext'' if n = 1, ``two-ciphertext'' if\n n = 2, and so on.\n\n* What's the advantage of formulating all this mathematically?\n\n In basic cryptology you can never prove that a cryptosystem is secure.\n Read part 3: we keep saying ``a strong cryptosystem must have this\n property, but having this property is no guarantee that a cryptosystem\n is strong!''\n\n In contrast, the purpose of mathematical cryptology is to precisely\n formulate and, if possible, prove the statement that a cryptosystem is\n strong. We say, for example, that a cryptosystem is secure against\n all (passive) attacks if any nontrivial attack against the system (as\n defined above) is too slow to be practical. If we can prove this\n statement then we have confidence that our cryptosystem will resist\n any (passive) cryptanalytic technique. If we can reduce this statement\n to some well-known unsolved problem then we still have confidence that\n the cryptosystem isn't easy to break.\n\n Other parts of cryptology are also amenable to mathematical\n definition. Again the point is to explicitly identify what assumptions\n we're making and prove that they produce the desired results. We can\n figure out what it means for a particular cryptosystem to be used\n properly: it just means that the assumptions are valid.\n\n The same methodology is useful for cryptanalysis too. The cryptanalyst\n can take advantage of incorrect assumptions. Often he can try to\n construct a proof of security for a system, see where the proof fails,\n and use these failures as the starting points for his analysis.\n \n* Why is the one-time pad secure?\n\n By definition, the one-time pad is a cryptosystem where the\n plaintexts, ciphertexts, and keys are all strings (say byte strings)\n of some length m, and E_K(P) is just the sum (let's say the exclusive\n or) of K and P.\n\n It is easy to prove mathematically that there are _no_ nontrivial\n single-ciphertext attacks on the one-time pad, assuming a uniform\n distribution of keys. Note that we don't have to assume a uniform\n distribution of plaintexts. (Here's the proof: Let A be an attack,\n i.e., an algorithm taking two inputs f, g and producing one output h,\n with some probability p that h = H(P) whenever f = F(P) and\n g = G(E_K(P)) (i.e., g = G(K + P)). Then, because the distribution of\n K is uniform and independent of P, the distribution of K + P must also\n be uniform and independent of P. But also the distribution of C is\n uniform and independent of P. Hence there is probability exactly p\n that h = H(P) whenever f = F(P) and g = G(C), over all P and C. Thus\n a fortiori A is trivial.)\n\n On the other hand the one-time pad is _not_ secure if a key K is used\n for more than one plaintext: i.e., there are nontrivial\n multiple-ciphertext attacks. So to be properly used a key K must be\n thrown away after one encryption. The key is also called a ``pad'';\n this explains the name ``one-time pad.''\n\n* What's a ciphertext-only attack?\n\n In the notation above, a ciphertext-only attack is one where F is\n constant. Given only some information G(E_K(P_1),...,E_K(P_n)) about\n n ciphertexts, the attack has to have some chance of producing some\n information H(P_1,...,P_n) about the plaintexts. The attack is trivial\n if it has just as good a chance of producing H(P_1,...,P_n) when given\n G(C_1,...,C_n) for random C_1,...,C_n.\n\n For example, say G(C) = C, and say H(P) is the first bit of P. We can\n easily write down an attack---the ``guessing attack,'' which simply\n guesses that H(P) is 1. This attack is trivial because it doesn't use\n the ciphertext: it has a fifty-fifty chance of guessing correctly no\n matter what. On the other hand there is an attack on RSA which\n produces one bit of information about P, with 100% success, using C.\n If it is fed a random C then the success rate drops to 50%. So this is\n a nontrivial attack.\n\n* What's a known-plaintext attack?\n\n The classic known-plaintext attack has F(P_1,P_2) = P_1,\n G(C_1,C_2) = (C_1,C_2), and H(P_1,P_2) depending only on P_2.\n In other words, given two ciphertexts C_1 and C_2 and one decryption\n P_1, the known-plaintext attack should produce information about the\n other decryption P_2.\n\n Note that known-plaintext attacks are often defined in the literature\n as producing information about the key, but this is pointless: the\n cryptanalyst generally cares about the key only insofar as it lets him\n decrypt further messages.\n\n* What's a chosen-plaintext attack?\n\n A chosen-plaintext attack is the first of an increasingly impractical\n series of _active_ attacks on a cryptosystem: attacks where the\n cryptanalyst feeds data to the encryptor. These attacks don't fit into\n our model of passive attacks explained above. Anyway, a\n chosen-plaintext attack lets the cryptanalyst choose a plaintext and\n look at the corresponding ciphertext, then repeat until he has figured\n out how to decrypt any message. More absurd examples of this sort of\n attack are the ``chosen-key attack'' and ``chosen-system attack.''\n\n A much more important form of active attack is a message corruption\n attack, where the attacker tries to change the ciphertext in such a\n way as to make a useful change in the plaintext.\n\n There are many easy ways to throw kinks into all of these attacks:\n for instance, automatically encrypting any plaintext P as\n T,E_K(h(T+R+P),R,P), where T is a time-key (sequence number) chosen anew\n for each message, R is a random number, and h is a one-way hash\n function. Here comma means concatenation and plus means exclusive-or.\n\n* In mathematical terms, what can you say about brute-force attacks?\n\n Consider the following known-plaintext attack. We are given some\n plaintexts P_1,...,P_{n-1} and ciphertexts C_1,...,C_{n-1}. We're\n also given a ciphertext C_n. We run through every key K. When we find\n K such that E_K(P_i) = C_i for every i < n, we print D_K(C_n).\n\n If n is big enough that only one key works, this attack will succeed\n on valid inputs all the time, while it will produce correct results\n only once in a blue moon for random inputs. Thus this is a nontrivial\n attack. Its only problem is that it is very slow if there are many\n possible keys.\n\n* What's a key-guessing attack? What's entropy?\n\n Say somebody is using the one-time pad---but isn't choosing keys\n randomly and uniformly from all m-bit messages, as he was supposed to\n for our security proof. In fact say he's known to prefer keys which\n are English words. Then a cryptanalyst can run through all English\n words as possible keys. This attack will often succeed, and it's much\n faster than a brute-force search of the entire keyspace.", "\nJust taking a guess, perhaps it was that Koresh had peaceably been served\nwith warrants before, and he did not shoot anyone but instead went with the\npolice without fighting.\n--\n\"On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Leftover Turkey!\nOn the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Turkey Casserole\n that she made from Leftover Turkey.\n[days 3-4 deleted] ... Flaming Turkey Wings! ...\n -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait)", "\nOf course not. The USA's only hope is for Yelsen (how ever you spell it) to \nfail the referendum, and have the hard-liners take over again.\n\n\n--\njmd@handheld.com", "\n\nSome more references:\n\nS.H. Dole\n\n\"Habitable Planets for Man\"\nBlaisdell Publishing Company, New York (1964)\n\nI don't know if this can be found any more.\n\nM.J. Fogg\n\n\"Extra-Solar Planetary Systems: A Microcomputer Simulation\"\nJ. Brit. Interplanetary. Soc., _38_, 501-514, (1985)\n\n\"An Estimate of the Prevalence of Biocompatible and Habitable Planets\"\nJ. Brit. Interplanetary. Soc., _45_, 3-12, (1992)\n\nThe first paper includes a detailed discussion of the physical conditions\nfor habitability.\n", "\nGreat slogan! I'm ready to sign up with a crypto-lobbying effort (though\nI wouldn't want to do it through an NRA offshoot). Shall we also push\nfor the CRA -- Cryptographic Rights Amendment ??", "Here are four pseudo-random character generators, based on\nirreducible trinomials. Each contains 16 separate trinomials,\none of which is selected on initialization (there are 64\ndistinct trinomials between the 4 PRCGs). The PRCGs are\ninitialized with a 32-bit seed, and a 4-bit trinomial-\nselector.\n\nI would like to get comments on these by anyone who is\ninterested enough to look them over. Please email,\nbecause our news is on the fritz (Note that this was\nposted via email).\n\nPeter K. Boucher \n\n================ CLIP CLIP =================================\n\nbegin 660 rnd.tar.Z\nM'YV0%B#(\"#\"!,J7,BPH<.'$\"-*1 BBH@T;,$ J AB!@T:&D'$D!&C\nM!LB-'#G:N$$C1L4:,VS4B$$SI@R.-4C6V#BQI\\^?0(,*'4JTJ-&C2),J71KQ\nMA0H0\"D \\#3BP((@6+:*JT,H1RIPR=2 .%/&\nM3=PP=-[(<5%12)BO9$\"\\<0,B#)LS>M/00=.&:\\4Z@$&D(;RX# @A4XB J.(F\nM#1X0*.BT20&BK$\"K<^B089-&#(@V;\\C485/&A6,04.2\\L9.&3)DY(FV H),'\nMSF_!9G!+<7($M&$V(\"!//@,\"SALV>=R@36,8^!LSMRN#,*,W+185*L* 6 'B\nMO K7[&.DL\"V5ZY W0P VYEP\"77$GP)\\48=:\\7%%11QM9'&\nM''.D,=AP;T3W%0MJX9<'A[\"1D889'Q8F$ @BIK:?&'7 -1P:$W(UQW=TW-&6\nM968%IAAP8HU11QMUT8&7A821)Y=9>517AQS6?65B8'+^(HQFZ6C>'A?OU5*14(VM&1QA@XPF%<\nM6Y(1]ER'<*3Q&WTJO*\" B/X9L9DEA%1Q!%?9!33#8PZ\"BD(4Q0!1:4BW1##\nMHHV6\\:A=($A*J4LTS#!JJ:=:UNFG+LD PRD:HJJJE_<5 ,,,V1JZJ:S]@J\"\nM##3@D.NPNT[ZQ8 TV! 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G+G\nM+V[AL3%2Y!33F&9336U)NO2F/PX4!;9@\"RW)UR''=H4@2\nMN7S=EZ-UE>N+Y2]G(>ZH6!R;)0%/),0C@Q>[P!C+$&,J+)J!$/ZJPQ+_B[UN .TT59$.(YI8QR!MF8&W-S< R)\";XL\nMV/$(WC4\">7X0?-E!*Y:*XM+&\\W3@R-FAHSY(!\\?1(FQCB$A^]3H[9QFJ\"JV[\nM7U\",#>JO0#C&K 6OZW0O;&(,L#F8!C/&)5Q@UJ(@:;M4V.R*7K6CA*V0@KVO\nM,,B1W*!'XG:2,-RQP@N665XA)NI>?PMAU/\nM\\GA#R1F*0I91N]!@*4QB6?!L.#%M> <+GC&T2N%0#_HN\\D(.&:'%BX9LD(R%\nMPT(8!T<>(JR$>@0>ED, ,\\<(S/-#,\"R/D^VQF ?*4E.2L7E\"BR,<)L_4OWB>\nMB5%DCDG%-#(O\\LB&'LJ;9$>/,R6]S_1C\\E@GBWHS;Y!0O=(@$$@9UF,*J$R5\nMI;V?T,IVTRO;\"+])EJ6$X41FC-.923,]1^[$@%VV$GNB3_R)SVF8385BEIT2\nM6E?P3H$F/!$:\\F2>Y )Z6C36S-%DL_9L8%6XRQ$93:C=*W>BHD.9N?!1)@Q$F\nMC=Z@-'RSTO8-DO(W2PJF-:DCX08*SL&14@D'2D@)*Y73'DZ6ZFE<\"JA9G.J \nMH,34QCEJ9DJI!<:F]M3<%,H)%(5!3E$UEV/5[%3-T&K%C:MYM<4'U@(537!M\nM18?O\\#YK<1/8VMUK%UC#[,RUNN;6[EI+,#MA(_*)G;\\FJ@1;J9H8A@WN',?%\nM%MP:VW3<.Y$MYDB,ET'9,(9EPWV?3[/5Q\\32V7).Z6-,H^U8+1WHZ.X84]X3\nM:[6BM2FKV4?<5)NOB'U^RK9=MMGSXAX&\\.-MCLWM\\3;5]]6&VWX$,,?M9DR_\nMR<''ZWP4Q< #P9@U 2U< \"X@#Y$ )4,(M\nM0 IGM\"#@P9. @*+#54 0!S]$'(G3@+CCQ,60#DBQ/F />G$C<(B40+)UA!9,\nMCHLB.ZZ*/*$7:/[DSZZ9@1RA;ME O(4#HYR.C($\\\\&_YP'S8(V&@GZP;1+\"0\nM4+QCAP0;U^-B@F3P@]E\"*FCKKATANGC^#A$APVJH#./1I#-U[6Y5@,I_1RNR\nMX#4TA.KD#/8[:A,3BX!^N@K!1YSV)5,CI?J+Q,9:?$>-%+\nM6&XZ0@CJCF6H'\"^E;E(BR\\3B\"'6E$VP7J^Y7IDI+2/+BW3K*@IZ0&18,9TDK\nMQV6WA'6Q*@L*)''I\"K5EO\"-V^FA6(B)9N D!G66HA=A0L;A+?8?!SF7%VV#$\nM\\H=IRGSI[83=NR1)_M)3KK!1Z<\"NY3+OLA[N%G)I\nMPKJAO*Q)N;)A:=DP0A$F-?'0F(9J'E1$N=Y$9WW,P_90WQ4$1'H442A\n=1YF('D;43$AOQW#$T.01H5[1#&4'< ", "Gerald Belton) writes\n\n\n\nHere in our city, dialing either 940-7222 (newer exchanges) or 940-2222222 [\nsic] will get a synthesized message. Works great for having people call you \nback at unlabeled pay phones.\n\nRegards,\nBill\n", "(reference line trimmed)\n\n\n\nWell, I'd say that a murderer is one who intentionally committed a murder.\nFor instance, if you put a bullet into a gun that was thought to contain\nblanks, and someone was killed with such a gun, the person who actually\nperformed the action isn't the murderer (but I guess this is actually made\nclear in the below definition).\n\n\nWhat do you mean by \"reasonable?\"\n\n[...]\n\nYes, it is bad to include the word being defined in the definition. But,\neven though the series is recursively infinite, I think the meaning can\nstill be deduced.\n\n\n[math lesson deleted]\n\nOkay, let's look at this situation: suppose there is a longstanding\nfeud between two families which claim that the other committed some\ntravesty in the distant past. Each time a member of the one family\nkills a member of the other, the other family thinks that it is justified\nin killing a that member of the first family. Now, let's suppose that this\nsequence has occurred an infinite number of times. Or, if you don't\nlike dealing with infinities, suppose that one member of the family\ngoes back into time and essentially begins the whole thing. That is, there\nis a never-ending loop of slayings based on some non-existent travesty.\nHow do you resolve this?\n\nWell, they are all murders.\n\nNow, I suppose that this isn't totally applicable to your \"problem,\" but\nit still is possible to reduce an uninduced system.\n\nAnd, in any case, the nested \"murderer\" in the definition of murder\ncannot be infintely recursive, given the finite existence of humanity.\nAnd, a murder cannot be committed without a killing involved. So, the\nfirst person to intentionally cause someone to get killed is necessarily\na murderer. Is this enough of an induction to solve the apparently\nunreducable definition? See, in a totally objective system where all the\ninformation is available, such a nested definition isn't really a problem.", "\nJust to make sure everyone is clear on this: \"it never has\" refers to \n\"protects\", not \"fails to protect\"; i.e., in my lifetime I have never seen \nthe U.S. government consistently protect the interest of U.S. citizens, \nexcept by accident.\n", "\nWhen will people learn!\n\nThe trouble is the ballast in the concrete and as every fool knows Ballast \nresistors are used to discharge batteries. Furthermore it is very silly to \nstore the battery with the terminals downwards as you must have done to \ncontact the ballast. \n\nSeriously: self discharge (the actual problem, as stated by others) does vary \ngreatly with certain types and freaks show low self discharge. I have in \nfact seen ordinary automotive batteries which have effectively held full \ncharge for > 2 years so it must be possible.\n\nIf your garage is heated, store the batteries somewhere cooler but above \nfreezing (flat batteries freeze more easily). Occasionally charge it (once a \nmonth?) or even leave it on 'float' charge permanently (special charger, \nDON'T do this unless you know what you are doing, seriously dangerous).\n\nAnouther point is the unsuitability of automotive batteries for things like \nelectric mowers -- they are not generally designed to be repeatedly deep \ndischarged and their life may be greatly shorted. Some early zero maintenance \nautomotive batteries in fact responded to a full discharge with total failure \nshortly afterwards but modern ones are superb. (6yrs, 95000 miles and \ncounting)", "I'd appreciate any help anyone could give me on these two questions:\n \nThe Brady Bill was in the news throughout 1992 but what actually happened to\nit in Congress? Did Bush veto it? If so, when?\n \nAlso, the state of Virginia, I believe, just passed a gun control bill on\nFebrauary 25 of this year. I think it limits gun purchases to one a month -\nis this correct? What was the bill number?", "Re: Methods for attaching heat sink to processor.\n\nGo to Radio Shack and buy a tube of heat sink compound. It comes\nin a little blue and white tube with a black screw on cap. At\nRadio Shack, it's catalog number 276-1372. It's a mix of\nsilicone and zinc oxide, and conducts heat very well. Plus, it's\ntacky.", "\nI agree with you. Of cause I'll try to be a daemon :-)", "Quoting strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) in article :", "\n\n\n\n\nLiefting> The alt.* hierarchie is created for 2 purposes: 1. For\nLiefting> groups which do not fit under the comp.* or other 'official'\nLiefting> hierarchies 2. For the fast creation of hot new newsgroups\nLiefting> like alt.gulf.war\n\nLiefting> Because there is no voting process or any other control\nLiefting> facilities, sites are free to decide not to carry (some of)\nLiefting> the alt groups.\n\nLiefting> Therefore, it is (I think) desirable to try to create\nLiefting> comp.graphics. {raytrace, rendering or whatever} and not an\nLiefting> alt-group\n\nPlus, *many* sites, (especially many .com sites) do not carry any alt\nnewsgroups. (We don't for example.) A comp.* group will get a much broader\ndistribution and would be useful to many more people. Plus the topic is\nimportant/popular enough to warrant its own group, IMHO.", "\n\n\n\n When did Bill start doing endorsements?\n\n Will he do the \"Remington Shaver\" ad?", "If one reasons that the United States of America at one time represented \nand protected freedom << individual liberty and personal responsibility >> \n(and I do, in fact, think that this is true) and that totalitarianism << \nabsolute government control and tyranny >> represents freedom's opposite \n(which it does), did the USA really win the cold war?\n\nStandard disclaimers ALWAYS apply!\n\n----------------\nGraham K. Glover\n----------------", "\nSo the only way you can tell a false hadith from a true one is\nif it contradicts the Quran? What if it relates to something\nthat isn't explicitly spelled out in the Quran?\n\nAlso, the Quran wasn't written down during the life of Muhammed\neither. It wasn't long after, but 20 years or so is still long\nenough to shift a few verses around.\n\nKarl\n -----------------------------------------------------------------------------", "\nStill searching for an irrelevant issue in which to mire a pro-lifer, I see.\nSlimy tactic.", "Article #61083 (61123 is last):\nFrom: scholten@epg.nist.gov (Robert Scholten)\nSubject: Re: How hot should the cpu be?\nDate: Wed Apr 21 19:01:49 1993\n\nThe temp on my 486DX2/66 is over 96C (measured with a K-type thermocouple \nand Fluke 55 dig thermometer). This is an \"idle\" temp - not doing lots of\nbus i/o, not doing floating point, not doing 32-bit protected mode etc. This\nis in a Micron computer, without heatsink.\n\nI recently put a heatsink/fan on the chip, but I might take the fan off. It\nmakes a horrible whine at times, and I wonder what the vibration is doing to\nthe pins on the cpu etc...\n\n-- \nRob Scholten\nscholten@epg.nist.gov\nEnd of File, Press RETURN to quit\n\nRob,\nDon't worry about the whine of the fan it will go away in about 3 weeks\nof use, mine did...\nAs to the vibration well that something I thought about to as I have\na tower case and the mb is mounted vertically. So I mounted the fan\non the case so that it just blows air at the CPU and its heatsink\ninstead. Work just like a charm, but the realy biggy to think about\nis after the whine goes away on the fan. If the fan should stop (burn out)\nhow would you ever know this before the cpu goes up in smoke. Thats what\nyou should be thinking about. I have the parts together but have not\nhad the time to assemble them as yet. But you build a thermistor controlled\ncircuit that will turn on a pesso speaker and a LED when the temp. goes\nabove the normal operating range (96c) or there abouts. Cheep to do if\nyou use Radio Shack junk under $5....Think about that one for a while!\nSam", "on\nchoice\nNonononnononono....its \"From the Nile to the Nile.....the Long way!\" ;-)\n", "I'll be spending this summer in Washington, DC working in Bowie, MD.\nDoes anyone have a summer sublease that they'd like to unload? I'll be\nin the area from about May 7 - August 20.\n\n Please mail me any pertinent info at (kimgh@mentor.cc.purdue.edu).", "\n------------ Part 4 of 14 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article phil@netcom.com (Phil\n >\n >>Libertarians want the State out of our lives.\n >>\n >>NAMBLA members want to fuck little boys.\n >>\n >>NOW do you get it?\n >>\n >I see! Libertarians want to have the right to fuck little\n >children of either sex, and want to make sure everyone else\n >has this right too. NAMBLA just wants to have the right to\n >fuck little boys.\n >\n >>Or are you just a secret member of NAMBLA?\n >>\n >You're the one who suddenly seems to be defending the right\n >to fuck children. How many little girls have you raped today,\n >Phil?\n >\n >If wanting to abolish the age of consent is not repectable,\n >it is not respectable for anyone.\n\nHmm, you still don't get it. Then again, I'm not posting from a University\nwhere the hue and cry was raised against \"Jewish physics\".\n\nTell me, committed any anti-semitic acts today? What kind of boots do you\nwear?\n\nAnd still -- Libertarians want the State out of their lives. Parents are very\ncapable of protecting their children against the predations of pedophiles,\nwhich, BTW, you still haven't disassociated yourself from.\n\nAre you, or are you not, a member of NAMBLA?\n\n\n\n-- \nThere are actually people that STILL believe Love Canal was some kind of\nenvironmental disaster. Weird, eh?", "\nLike it or not, Edward, Anwar has a very good, valid point. Obviously,\nin presenting it, he (quite legitimately and deliberately) takes a point\nof view to an extreme which might not have been what you intended, but\nthat is one of the best ways to demonstrate a \"slippery slope\" type of\nargument, which I believe was his aim.\n\nI very frankly believe that the ADL will be proved innocent in this\ncase. I doubt there's enough evidence to weigh against them even in a\ncivil court, where preponderance of the evidence, not evidence beyond\nany reasonable doubt, is the standard for \"winning\" such a case. That,\nhowever, does not prevent me from seeing the merit in Anwar's point. \n\nRest deleted.", "This discussion on \"objective\" seems to be falling into solipsism (Eg: the\nrecent challenge from Frank Dwyer, for someone to prove that he can actually\nobserve phenomena). Someones even made the statement that science is\n\"subjective\" and that even atom are \"subjective.\" This is getting a bit silly\nand the word \"objective\" is losing all meaning. Lets start by remembering the\ndefinition of \"objective\" which has been already presented:\n\n objective ADJ. 1. Of or having to do with a material object as \n distinguished from a mental concept. 2. Having actual existence.\n 3.a. Unenfluenced by emotion or personal prejudice. b. Based on\n observable phenomenon.\n\nThe Objectivity of a thing is not based on whether everyone agrees on that\nthing (eg: the world is objectively round, regardless of the fact that there\nexist flat earthers), but rather whether it is based observable and verifiable\nphenomenon (instead of being based solely on peoples wishes, feeling, mental\nprocesses, etc). Thus atoms, being based on very observable and repeatable\nphenomenon, are indeed considered to be objective rather than subjective. \nEven weird, high energy physics is based on observable phenomenon (even though\nthat observation can change the outcome). Nor are those observable phenomenon\naffected by emotion, or personal prejudice (eg: chemical reactions do not\nchange to the whims of different people). Thus to say that science is not\nobjective (ie: objectively verifiable) is a bit silly, as that is the\npoint of science. Now I will agree that science is not objectively \"good;\" I\nwill not thereby conclude though that science is not objective. \n\nNow some examples things which are \"objective\": A D-12 tractor is larger\nthan the average breadbox. Chlorophyll is green. Seawater contains salt.\nThere exists ozone in the atmosphere (at least presently). Ozone blocks \nultraviolet light. Ultraviolet light increases the incidents of skin Cancer.\n\n\"Good\" on the other hand is a value judgement. It doesn't seem to have an\nexistence apart from what we give it (unless someone can objectively show the\nexistence of an omnipotent entity which has defined \"good\"). We cannot\nquantify it, touch it or collect it in any concrete sense (eg: I have a bag\nfull of \"good\"). Now we do sometimes attempt to give the word \"good\" an\nobjective meaning, e.g. \"good\" has been used to denote strength, resiliency,\nspeed, etc. That though, is a subjective definition, as some might not see\n\"strength\" and etc, as necessarily \"good\" (eg: strength inspired by Naziism \nis not generally viewed as \"good\"). \n\nAs to a morality, I cannot say that I have ever seen a morality strictly based\non verifiable observable phenomenon. The closest I have seen is some form of\nthe \"Golden Rule,\" which concludes that it is best not to deliberately piss\npeople off, as they will likely then involve themselves in your life, in a\nmanner you won't like. This is verifiable; when you \"get in someone's face,\"\nthey will often retaliate. Another objective fact about morality is that a\nmore powerful group can enforce their morality on a weaker group, and thus can\nat times, ignore that form of the \"Golden Rule\" without fear of reprisal. Now\nas to whether this enforcing of morality is \"good\" or \"bad,\" is quite\nsubjective. By the way, remember that subjective does not mean that a thing\ncannot be formally stated, or even commonly agreed upon; it only means that\nthat it is not verifiable from observable phenomena, or has a physical\nexistence unto itself. Also note that I have not stated that there is no such\nthing as an objective morality, or that I could not accept any such a\nmorality; I have simply stated that I have seen no evidence of any such\nmorality. \n\nOne other thing to notice, \"objective\" is many times used as synonymous with\n\"true\" and/or \"absolute,\" and \"subjective\" sometimes has the connotation of\n\"false\" and/or \"relative.\" Tain't necessarily so. For instance, when a\nconclusion is based on objective, but insufficient evidence, then it can be\nboth objective and false. As to \"absolute,\" it is easy to note that while we\ncan objectively show that TNT is explosive, but that does not absolutely mean\nthat all TNT will explode, and thus objective is not necessarily absolute\neither. On the other hand, something subjective can also be either\n\"absolutist,\" or \"true.\" For instance, there are some theists who are\nspecifically \"absolutist\" in their morality, even though they have only\nsubjective evidence to back it up. Further, many a scientist and detective\nhas been motivated by subjective reasons (eg: a \"gut feeling\" or \"hunch\"), to\ninvestigate a phenomena or situation, and gather the objective evidence\nnecessary to support a true hypothesis. On the whole though, I would have to\nagree that objective evidence is much more trustworthy than subjective\nevidence.\n \n\t\t\t\tLater,\n\n\t\t\t\tDave Butler", "\n\nSee, we are disagreeing on the definition of moral here. Earlier, you said\nthat it must be a conscious act. By your definition, no instinctive\nbehavior pattern could be an act of morality. You are trying to apply\nhuman terms to non-humans. I think that even if someone is not conscious\nof an alternative, this does not prevent his behavior from being moral.\n\n\nI try to show it, but by your definition, it can't be shown.\n\nAnd, morality can be thought of a large class of princples. It could be\ndefined in terms of many things--the laws of physics if you wish. However,\nit seems silly to talk of a \"moral\" planet because it obeys the laws of\nphyics. It is less silly to talk about animals, as they have at least\nsome free will.", "\nMr. Ward, before you start blathering about your skill \"interpreting\"\nthe Constitution, it might be helpful to learn to read. After a review\nwith a high school English teacher emphasizing participial phrases, you\nmight start with the Second Amendment, and follow it up with:\n\n 97th Congress, 2nd Session, Committee Print, *The Right To Keep and\n Bear Arms*, of the Subcomittee on the Constitution of the Committee on\n the Judiciary, United States Senate, 97th Congress, Second Session,\n February, 1982. GPO No. 88-618-O\n\nThis authoritative, heavily researched and annotated document clearly\nturns your \"interpretation\" into specious claptrap, which is a polite\nway of saying utter bullshit. In spite of your false assertion to the\ncontrary, the Second Amendment DOES protect the right of the individual\ncitizen, in his capacity as an individual, to keep and bear arms.\n\nAnd, Mr. Holland, IMHO, blatantly and harmfully false information,\nasserted as fact and globally distributed, deserves globally\ndistributed rebuttal in the forum in which it is posted.\n\n(And besides, this site doesn't carry t.p.g...:-)\n\nharryb%phred@data-io.com\nphred!harryb@data-io.com\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\nNo free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest\nreason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is,\nas a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.\n\t\t\t\t\t--Thomas Jefferson", "\nIt's on page 315, about 2 1/2 inches up from the bottom and an inch in\nfrom the right.\n\nAt least we know what some people *haven't* read and remembered.\n", "ACLU Official Policies.\n\nPolicy 18, for example, opposes rating systems for motion\npictures: \"Industry sponsored ratings systems create the\npotential for constraining the creative process and thus\ncontracting the marketplace of ideas. Despite the stated goal of\nproviding guidance to parents, experience has shown that ratings\ninevitably have serious chilling effects on freedom of\nexpression.\"\n\nIn regards to the Pledge of Allegiance, the ACLU states in its\nPolicy 84: \"The insertion of the words `under God' into the\nPledge of Allegiance is a violation of the constitutional\nprinciple of separation of Church and State.\"\n\nPolicy 120 states that, \"Military conscription under any\ncircumstances is a violation of civil liberties and\nconstitutional guarantees.\" The ACLU objects to the draft even\nduring wartime because of the \"anti-democratic power it gives\ngovernment to wage war without support of the people.\"\n\nPolicy 125 states, \"The ACLU calls for a broad-based inquiry into\nwar crimes within the widest possible definition of war crimes\nagainst humanity, and crimes against the peace, focusing upon the\nactions of the United States military and other combatants\nagainst the people of South Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, and North\nVietnam.\"\n\nPolicy 133 states, \"The ACLU recognizes that US government\nreliance upon nuclear weaponry as a dominant element of foreign\nand domestic policy, while propounded as a defense of democracy,\nis in fact a great threat to civil liberties. Four decades of\nadherence to this policy has fundamentally altered the nature of\nour constitutional democratic process and poses a paramount\nthreat to our civil liberties.\"\n\nPolicy 217 objects to roadblocks \"where drivers are stopped for\nsobriety tests\" because they \"violate Fourth Amendment\nprinciples.\" \n\nPolicy 242 states the following on criminal\nsentencing: \"The most appropriate correctional approach is\nreintegrating the offender into the community, and the goals of\nreintegration are furthered much more readily by working with the\noffender within the community than by incarceration. Probation\nshould be authorized by the legislature in every case; exceptions\nto the principle are not favored, and any exceptions, if made,\nshould be limited to the most serious of offenses, such as murder\nor treason.\"\n\n Bill Vojak\n vojak@icebucket.stortek.com\n\t\t\t\tNRA, ILA,\n Colorado Firearms Coalition\n------------------------------------------------------------\nThe CBS Nightly Propaganda With Dan Rather. (RATHER NOT!)\nThe CBS Nightly Propaganda With Dan Rather. (RATHER BIASED!)", "\n I wonder if he realizes the irony of a Federal Secretary\ninvoking a rabid anti-federalist in support of federal education\nprograms?\n\t ", "\n\tYeah, but they probably included industries and educational institutions\nthat uses mostly work stations (SUNs, DEC, IBM RS600... etc etc) Which turns\nmonitor off if left untouched for 5 min. \n\n- Chung Yang\n", "actually \nclock, \nphone \n24 hours \ncould call \nfrom \nmore \nlights \ndinner ", "\n\nThere are a number of inaccuracies here:\n1) In fact, a colder battery will self-discharge more slowly. This is why\n batteries should be stored in a COOL, dry place.\n2) An battery placed on concrete does not become colder than one placed\n on wood. The battery, the wood, and the concrete will all be at the\n same general temperature (ignoring temperature fluctuations) and thus\n none will effect the other.\n\n\nThere is no need to 'exercise' the battery. Just keep it charged. (A trickle\ncharger will do the job.)", "}>}>}(a) out of context;\n}>}>Must have missed when you said this about these other \"promises of god\" that we keep\n}>}>getting subjected to. Could you please explain why I am wrong and they are OK?\n}>}>Or an acknowledgement of public hypocrisy. Both or neither.\n}>}\n}>}So, according to you, Jim, the only way to criticize one person for\n}>}taking a quote out of context, without being a hypocrite, is to post a\n}>}response to *every* person on t.r.m who takes a quote out of context?\n}>\n}>Did I either ask or assert that? Or is this your misaimed telepathy at work again?\n}\n}(1) Stephen said you took a quote out of context\n}(2) You noted that Stephen had not replied to some other t.r.m article\n} (call it A) that took a quote out of context\n}(3) But the lack of evidence for X does not constitute evidence for the\n} lack of X (a common creationist error)\n}(4) So the fact that Stephen did not reply to A does not justify the\n} conclusion that Stephen condoned taking quotes out of context in A\n\nExcellent. Now under what conditions could such a conclusion be made, other\nthan a direct assertion by his part. For instance, am I to assume that\nyou have no position on eating shit merely because you have not said\nyour position, or might a conclusion be made by observing that you do not.\n\n}(7) I assumed you were being logical, and that the sentence that begins\n} \"Could you please explain ...\" was not a nonsequitur, but was intended\n} to follow from the sentence that preceded it.\n\n}Is that better Jim? It's called an argument. If you disagree with it,\n}explain why the argument is not sound. (I admit that my assumption in (7)\n}may have been a bit hasty.) If you agree with it, just say \"yup.\"", "Oh, excuse me for wasting the bandwidth, but I was referring to \nthe original incident, not the recent skirmish which occurred\nthis past month. \n", "Two URGENT requests:\n\n1. I need the latest update and description of MA bill S-897. From\n what I gather this bill takes the Hunter Safety Courses from\n Law Enforcement and places them under Fish & Game control.\n\n2. Has someone out there compiled a list of all MA Senate & House\n Bills under consideration? If they have, please e-mail me\n the list. If not, is there a database I can access?\n\n\tThanx,\n\t\tYours in the fight,\n\t\tMike P.\n\nP.S. My wife and I thought Nancy B. was great on Street Stories.\n", "I replied to your message, however, it is listed as a new topic with\nthe title: \"rnitedace and violence\". Possibly line noise or error\ncaused to post as a new topic. I see it here as #100.\n\nRegards,", "\n\nSo where was she? And would she consider staying there?\n-- ", "\n\n\nWell lets see - a long haired nut case with sexual hangups surrounded\nby a lot of gulible losers without a brain between them with a miserable\nand meaningless death to boot\n\nSounds like he fits the bill to me!\n\nJoseph 'Remember David Koresh fried for you' Askew\n", "\nI was trying to avoid a discussion of the whether Clintons views\nshould be endorsed or not. All I was trying to find out was \nwhether the newspaper article was correct in making these\nstatements about the President by obtaining some information\nabout when and where he made these statements.\n\nThank you.", "Fellow netters,\n\nI just wanted to let you know that there are a few honest and good people out\nthere (even outside of Iowa). I'm sorry if anyone thinks that I am wasting\nspace, but I thought you might want some relief from the \"So-and-so is a thief\"\nposts. Not that I think we shouldn't hear about the bad deals, but it would be\nnice to hear some good news once in a while.\n\nAfter seeing his post on one of the for sale groups, I mailed Mr. Mark Miller a\nrequest for his copy of WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS. He suggested a price of $50\nin his ad, but when I phoned him, he quoted $40 plus shipping. That sounded\nmore than fair to me, so I told him that I would send him a check the next day. \nImagine my surprise when I logged into my account the following day and found a\nmessage from him saying that it had already been sold (after I had just mailed\nthe money order). After another E-Mail message to him, he apologized and\nassured me that it was a mistake - I was the one who he was holding it for. He\nsent the package as soon as he got the money, along with a letter stating a\ntransfer of license. This wasn't good enough for WordPerfect, so I asked him\nto fill out one of their forms. No problem - we thought. It took three times\nto get it to the right address (my fault). Anyway, he mailed me the form for\nmy signature and included a Workbook that I had no idea was included in the\ndeal. Again, he apologized for not sending it before. I now have the world's\nbest word processor and a renewed hope in the world that there are a few good\nones left. I recoend that if you ever see that Mark is selling anything thatat\nyou may want, give him a call. If I had the choice, I would purchase all of my\nsoftware from him.\n\nBravo, Mr. Miller!", "\n > This is actually the law that David Irving\n > will hopefully be found guilty under due to his denial of the Holocaust.\n > It's too bad that this useless \"Centre for Policy Research\" isn't in Canada.\n > It'd set a nice precedent to how the law applies in Cyberspace.\n > \n > Steve\n\n\t Well canada is wrong. If it was in the US the ACLU would have\n made sure that such repressive laws are found unconstitutional.\n Do you think the Church didn't find Galileo's perception of the\n universe offensive.\n\n\nBull shit. There is no reason in the world why we can't say that\ntaking views analogous to the KKK's or some such organization is\nwrong. There is no reason why some morality may not be legislated. As\nit is we do not allow theft, or murder, or rape. Why should we allow\nhateful sppech whose only purpose is to stir anger and violence.", "\nBULLSHIT. How many lakes have ceased to be able to support life from\npurely natural pollution? Man has already done this to scores of lakes.\nAlso, much of the \"degredation\" you cite was done by cows and pigs.\n\nAnd why do think there are so many cows around?\n\nCould it be.......cause people raise them?\n\n", "Apple dealerships once had kits to replace the soldered in batteries with a battery \nholder.", "\nFor all those people who insist I question authority: Why?\n\nChris Mussack", "Hello Gang,\n\nThere have been some notes recently asking where to obtain the DARWIN fish.\nThis is the same question I have and I have not seen an answer on the\nnet. If anyone has a contact please post on the net or email me.\n\nThanks,", "\nIt will be ironic in the extreme if Spector manages to uncover a\ngovernment conspiracy and cover-up in this case. Maybe he'll posit a\nMagic Grenade that lit fires in three wings of the building at once.\n", "heat\nThis tops the cold-hearted bastard list! Unbelievable! Had this countries \nmorals sunk this low, that the death of innocent people is so callously viewed?\n\n+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+\n\t |\n+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+\n+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+\n\n\n--\njmd@handheld.com", "\n\nGood question. I'm sure some biologist could answer better than I,\nbut animals brains are just set up differently.\n\nAnimals *can* be trained, but if they're instincts serve them well, there is\nno reason to contradict them.", "\nSort of a \"Mrs. O'Leary's\" tank theory? Moooo.\n", "Actually, the \"ether\" stuff sounded a fair bit like a bizzare,\nqualitative corruption of general relativity. nothing to do with\nthe old-fashioned, ether, though. maybe somebody could loan him\na GR text at a low level.\n\ndidn't get much further than that, tho.... whew.\n", "Hello everyone.\n\nLast week I posted a similar question to alt.wedding. Now I come in\nsearch of a deeper-level answer.\n\nMy fiance is Lutheran and I am Catholic. We plan on getting married in\nher church because she is living there now and I plan on moving there\nin a month or so. I called my Catholic priest to find out what I needed\nto do in order for the marriage to be recognized by my church.\n\nNeedless to say that I have found that there is no \"hard and fast\" rule\nwhen it comes to how the Catholic law for interfaith weddings is interpreted.\nBut I'm pretty sure that we CAN get married without too much problem; the\ntrick lies in the letter of dispensation.\n\nBut that is not why I am here....\n\nWhat I'd like to know is: \n What are the main differences between the Lutheran and Catholic religions?\n My priest mumbled something about how the Eucharist was understood...\n I have heard that if two religions combine soon, it would be these two.\n\nAny help would be appreciated...\n\nThanks so much!\n\nBill\n-- \n Bill Burns [ Internet: wdburns@mtu.edu ] Mac Network System Administrator\n [ AppleLink: SHADOW ] Apple Student Rep, MTU\nFirst we must band together as friends,\n then mearcilessly crush our enemies into paste.", "\n Really? What if it said \"lentil eating\" or \"legume eating\",\n what then? \n And I suppose \"Accept 10\" is anti-Octal bigotry?\n Geez, how PC can you get!?\n\n Uncle Fester\n", "I am glad that you recognize that people should not engage in denial\nand repression, and should acknowledge such. The United States, with\nits people, have recognized that repression has taken place, with the\nloss and outright abrogation of civil liberties and constitutional\nprotections of citizens. This recognition has taken the form of the\ncivil rights law (let's just discuss the federal level for now), such\nas 18 USC 241 et. seq., 42 USC 1981 et. seq, et. al.\n With this recognition of repression, at times manifested in the\nform of collective guilt, I want people to recognize denial. \nThough it can be said that white people numerically commit more\ncrimes in the United States, because white people are a majority,\nit can also be said that black people commit a disproportionate\namount of crime in the United States, in their relation to their\nnumbers in population.\n My views are out of experiences when I was a police officer\nin a large metropolitan area, and of a citizen. Unless people\naccount for their behavior, and for the behavior of their immediate\ncommunity, nothing will improve.\n\nRegards, ", "\n\nYes, it is. I have taken photos of it's minaret.\n\n\nDunno.\n\n\nThis doesn't sound like \"eye for an eye\" anymore. Changed your tune?\n", " \n No, that's praying on the young. Preying on the young comes\n later, when the bright eyed little altar boy finds out what the\n priest really wears under that chasible.\n\n\n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ \n\nBob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM \n\nThey said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,\nand sank Manhattan out at sea.", ": You know, it just occurred to me today that this whole Christian thing\n: can be blamed solely on Mary.\n: \n: So, she's married to Joseph. She gets knocked up. What do you think\n: ol' Joe will do if he finds she's been getting around? So Mary comes up\n: with this ridiculous story about God making her pregnant. \n: \n\n Nice attempt Chris . . . verrry close.\n\n You missed the conspiracy by 1 step. Joseph knew who knocked her up.\nHe couldn't let it be known that somebody ELSE got ol' Mary prego. That\nwouldn't do well for his popularity in the local circles. So what \nhappened is that she was feeling guilty, he was feeling embarrassed, and\nTHEY decided to improve both of their images on what could have otherwise\nbeen the downfall for both. Clever indeed. Come to think of it . . . I\nhave gained a new respect for the couple. Maybe Joseph and Mary should\nreceive all of the praise being paid to jesus.", "\n\n I think the legal term would be \"negligent homicide\"\n\n\n\n Well, it's nice to see someone with a brain, a general lack of paranoia, and\na willingness to put his thoughts in public. I tend to agree with all you have\nsaid.\n\n \"Never assume foul motives when stupidity will do.\" -- Jim's Corrolary to \n\t\t\t\t\t\t Occam's Razor\n\nsemper fi,", "Despite my trendy, liberal, feminist tendencies and the fact\nthat I basically agree with what you are saying I will rebut:\n\n \nThe basic question here is \"how do I know what I am supposed to do?\"\nThis is true in every situation that comes up. Some people do not\nthink about it at all and merely follow their impulses. I claim\nthat is just as dangerous as \"following authority\". I could site\nsexually transmitted diseases, drug abuse, all manner of criminal\nactivity, the savings and loan scandal, car accidents, eggs thrown\nat my house, all are examples of people not \"following authority\".\nI could easily argue that in the evil examples you gave the \nproblem was a leader not following _his_ authority and doing what \nhe wanted. Of course, where is the top of the chain? Therein lies \nour search.\n \n\nI don't think it's as simple as you are claiming. \"Pressing need\" is\nambiguous. Should I recycle or not? \n \nRealize that I have four kids who, despite being very precocious \nof course, are very tiring with their constant lack of understanding\nthe tremendous knowledge I wish to impart to them.\n\n\nAhh! An ironic ending.\n \nThe irony I was implying in my initial pithy retort to the bumper \nsticker cliche \"Question Authority\" was that I was questioning \nthe authority of the person telling me to question authority.\nIt seems there is a certain segment of society that finds meaning\nonly in being different, only in rebelling, forsaking everything\nfor the sake of freedom. I question their integrity and fortitude. \nThere is another freedom that comes from doing a task correctly.\nDifferent people are at different levels of development in different\nareas. Part of the challenge of life is to find the right authorities\nto follow, we can't know everything about everything. Often \nwhen learning a new skill or subject I will follow the teacher,\nperhaps blindly. Only when I have learned enough to ask appropriate\nquestions should I question him, only when I have developed\nmy skills enough should I challenge him. Once again, how do I know\nwhen I get to those stages?\n\nIf you have to be told to question authority, perhaps you shouldn't.", "I was wondering what the country extension are.\nSometimes I just don't have a clue from where\nsome people are writing.\n\nThese are the extensions I know of\n\nch Switzerland\nse Sweden\nfi Finland\nuk UK\nCom US?\nEdu US? (are both com and edu US?) \nfr France\n\nPlease feel free to add to this list.\n\n/ Markus\n\n__________________________________________________________________________\n _ _ _ ____ _________ \n / | / | / | / / / / / / / \n / | / | /__| /___/ /--| / / /___ '75 Chevy Camaro 350/TH350\n/ |/ | / | / | / | /___/ ____/ '87 Peugout 205 1.4/4-speed", "\nAnd if the Lord God Almighty parted the sky and make a personal\nappearance at their Board of Directors meeting, they would also change\ntheir policies. The odds are about equal.\n\n\nYou'll be extremely lucky if you ever get one through.\n", "\n On the other hand, Rush made an interesting point: The Democrats ran\n one of their best campaigns in years against a pathetic Republican and\n a paranoiac and still only pulled 43% of the vote, lost 10 seats in\n the House, and gained 0 seats in the Senate. 1994 might be pretty\n interesting.\n\nClueless of the world, take heart! 57% of the electorate is willing\nto vote for \"a pathetic Republican and a paranoiac\"!!", "\nThe only folks claiming this are the ATF/FBI who have an interest in\nputting the blame on the BD's. Wake up.\n\n\n\nRight and proper? How? It was FUBAR from day 1.\n\nFrom all independent sources. Yes. \n\n\nIt would have hurt nothing to wait and the result could hardly have been\nworse.\n\n\nSure, it you want to someone you claim is a dangerous paranoid even\nmore paranoid.\n\n\nAnd what makes you think that \"waffle boy\" didn't tell her to take the\nwrap. It was job preservation not \"balls\".", "I will be in Boston (Cambridge specifically) working this summer\nand am in need of a place to stay. If you have a room to sublease, or\nanything of the sort I would appreciate a mail.\nI am a 20-year old white male and am very flexible. I can adapt to a smoking\nor non-smoking environment. Access to the 'T' would be nice, though I will \nhave a car thus need a parking space. \nI would need this from late May or early June until aproximately end of July.\nAny responses welcome.", "Replying to A.J. Teel:\n\n\tWell, the two nifty letters giving concrete proof that the\n\tIncome Tax is voluntary and giving specific procedures for\n\tstopping withholding, et cetera have been out there for a\n\twhile now.\n\nHumbug. Those letters don't provide \"concrete proof\" of anything at all\nin the absence of any case law that demonstrates the method will actu-\nally work for ordinary people in everyday situations.\n\nSpecifically, show us some case law in which the courts have ruled that\nincome tax is illegal and/or that ordinary working types do not have to\npay income tax (and that they can legally avoid paying income tax with-\nout declaring themselves to be churches or some such silliness). This\nissue is sufficiently important that I think we have a right to expect\nsomething squarely on point from the US Supreme Court (in the case of\nfederal tax) or a state's supreme court (for a state's income tax).\n\nUnless you can do that, I for one am unwilling to call your material\n\"concrete proof\".\n\n\tThere has been no refutation to date. Have the nay-sayers\n\tfinally given up as defeated? Sure would like to hear their\n\treasons for disbelief at this point.\n\nRefutation?? Refutation of what? You haven't made a case yet. You've\nposted plenty of claims, but you haven't given us any valid reason to\nbelieve that any court in the US will agree with you. Your claims seem\non the surface to deviate so radically from the legal mainstream that I\nfeel the burden of proof is still on =you= to show that your arguments\nhave any merit whatsoever. And the cases you've cited involve such\nstrange situations that I see no reason to assume that the rulings are\napplicable to anyone else, or that they will ultimately stand on appeal\nto the Supreme Court.\n\nWhy can't you just cite us a case in which Joe Schmoe, a regular\nemployee earning regular wages from a regular company, refuses to pay\nhis income tax, gets hauled into court, is convicted of wilful tax eva-\nsion, and then has his conviction overturned by the US Supreme Court\nwith a landmark 7-2 majority ruling that income tax is indeed totally\nvoluntary? What, you say? No such case exists? Hmmm, I wonder why\nnot; why haven't you?\n\n\tShall I conclude that the point has been received and the\n\topposition has forfeited the field?\n\nWith all due respect, you can conclude anything you want. I just hope,\nfor your own sake, that you don't conclude that anyone in a position of\nauthority in the United States or any legitimate or illegitimate polit-\nical subdivision thereof is going to agree with your conclusions.\n\nFor that matter, I confess I'm thoroughly confused as to =why= you would\nbe looking for court rulings in your favor anyway -- since I thought you\ntold us earlier that every court in the US has been in cahoots with big\nbanking interests since the 1938 \"admiralty jurisdiction\" coverup thing.\nDo you honestly expect us to believe that they'd go to all the trouble\nto subvert the system, and yet would still promptly slink back into\ntheir burrows in the face of anyone who knew enough to invoke the right\ncombination of magic spells and mystic mumbo-jumbo?\n\nNot only that, but why do you even =care= what the US courts say anyway?\nDidn't you tell us a while back that you've disavowed all attempts by US\nofficials to classify you as a \"14th Amendment federal citizen\"? When\nthe FBI comes to haul you away for tax evasion, why don't you just tell\nthem they're out of their jurisdiction and should go back to Washington,\nD.C., where they belong?\n\nOr maybe we should all just go back to mediaeval common law, which you\nsuggested would be better than all these statutes, codes, and the like.\nIf you want to renounce society's legal framework, fine; we can just\ndeclare you an outlaw, OK?, and anyone who sees you driving on the roads\nwith no license plate on your car and no driver's license in your wallet\ncan just take you like a game animal and stew you for their supper (with\nplenty of veggies and a pinch of salt, but WITHOUT PREJUDICE UCC 1-207).\n\nSorry, everyone, it's getting late, and I'm sick and tired of all this\ngarbage. If I know what's good for me, I'll just clam up and stop try-\ning to refute this nonsense, and if anyone falls for it and winds up in\njail for tax evasion or what-not, it'll be on their own head.\n\nNeedless to say, none of the above represents the opinions of my current\nemployer -- who, in any case, is a Canadian and doesn't really need to\ncare too much about US tax law. I, on the other hand, am a \"14th Amend-\nment federal citizen\", with a US passport to prove it, and plan to keep\non filing Form 1040's for the foreseeable future (though I will probably\nnot owe any US income tax due to the foreign earned income exclusion\nand/or the foreign tax credit).\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\nA lot of us out here in the hinderland will trust the Japanese\nbefore we'll trust the NSA, the President, or those stupid\nFortune 50 companies you're so proud of.\n\n\n\nAnd since the Japanese corps aren't part of our \"government/governors\"\nthey may be more trusted out htere than you are.\n\n\nPeople are getting tired of this \"be patriotic, do whatever we say\nwithout question, and pay more taxes\" attitude that comes from\nAmerica's political party...\nor should that be caste?\n\n\n", "\n\nHow about:\n\n\tThe Holocaust\n\tThe Spanish Inquisition\n\tJonestown\n\n(just to name a few) ?\n\nAuthorities sometimes tell people to do evil things. People who \"just\nfollow orders\" have tortured and killed others in very large numbers,\nand protest their innocence afterwards.\n\nWhen your authority starts telling you to do things, you should ask\nquestions. Except for situations of pressing need (\"I said shut the\nhatch because the submarine is filling with water!\"), any reasonable\nauthority should be able to give at least some justification that you\ncan understand.\n\nJust be sure to listen when authority answers.\n\n(If anybody is interested in questions of psychological pressure and\n following orders, you might want to read about a study done by Solomon Ashe\n in 1951 on conformity, and another done by Stanley Milgram in 1963 on\n obedience. Both should be in any good book on psychology/sociology. The\n results are both fascinating and terrifying.)\n", "First of all let's assume that you are right that fewer guns would make it \nin to the country, that sounds great (to those that see guns as inherently\nevil) except then every one of those guns would be in the hands of someone\nwho obviously couldn't care less about following the law, after all they \ngot the gun illegally, so is more likely to commit a crime with that gun.\nGreat then everyone with a gun is likely to use it in a crime, nice system.\n\nNow as to reducing the number of guns coming into society by making it \nillegal to manufacture, sell, or import them in this coutry, let me use\na parallel for empiric evidence. The amount of cocaine in this country is\nfar less since its manufacture, sale, and importation was out lawwed. If\nthat last statement is true then perhaps we should consider your plan. This \ncould also apply to drugs in general.", "\n\n\n\n\nOne of those US cases was John Pollard.", "When you have no principles, you can't admit that someone else might,\nand everyone who acts differently from what you expect can only be a nutcase.\n-- \nDave Feustel N9MYI ", "\n So now we're judging the Qur'an by what's not in it? \n\n How many mutton headed arguments am I going to have to wade\n through today?\n\n\n One would hope.\n\n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ \n\nBob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM \n\nThey said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,\nand sank Manhattan out at sea.", "\n\nExactly when will the hover test be done, and will any of the TV\nnetworks carry it. I really want to see that...\n", "\nThen delete the \"unfortunately\". Now tell me that the two statement\nsay effectively the same thing.\n\nAnd to save everyone a couple of trips round this loop, please notice\nthat we are only obliged to use force to preserve self. We can choose\n*not* to preserve self, which is the point of pacifism.\n\n\nAnd in this case they don't prescribe the same things, so.....\n\n\nIf you don't think the use of force is immoral, why minimise its use?", "\nRight.\n\n\nThe Branch Dividians were. They believed and trusted so much that it became\nimpossible to turn back to reality. What you are advocating is total\nirreversible brainwashing.", "\n\nThe quotation marks should enclose \"laws,\" not \"must.\"\n\nIf there were no such rules, even instinctive ones or unwritten ones,\netc., then surely some sort of random chance would lead a chimp society\ninto chaos.", "\nDammit, how did ArfArf's latest excretion escape my kill file?\n\nOh, he changed sites. Again. *sigh* OK, I assume no other person\non this planet will ever use the login name of arf.\n\n/arf@/aK:j \n", "\nAs usual, you are missing the whole point, Russell, because you are not\nwilling to even consider questionning your basic article of faith, which\nis that science is merely a matter of methodology and that the highest\npurpose of science is to avoid making mistakes. \n\nThis is like saying that the most important aspect of business management\nis accurate bookkeeping. \n\nIf science were no more than methodology and not making mistakes, it\nwould be a poor thing indeed. What was the methodology of Darwin? What\nwas the methodology of Einstein? What was, for that matter, the\nmethodology of Jenner and Pasteur? \n\n\n\n\nFirst of all, I think you are arguing against a straw man, because I\ndon't think that anyone here is arguing that quackery, pseudo-science,\nhomeopathy, chiropracty, and traditional Chinese medicine should be\naccepted as science. I, in particular, think the basic ideas of\nhomeopathy and chiropracty seem extremely flaky. \n\nWhat some of us do believe, however, is that some of these things\n(including some of the flaky ideas) are deserving of serious scientific\nattention. \n\nIf in fact it were true, as you have stated above, that those who do not\nuse the currently fashionable methodology can have no idea what is\neffective and what is not, then science today would not exist. For all\nof current science is based on the past work of scientists whose\nmethodology, by current standards, was seriously flawed. \n\nIt is certainly true that as methodology improves, we need to re-examine\nthose results derived in the past using less perfect methodologies. It is\nalso true that the results obtained by people today who still rely on \nthose early methodologies needs to be re-examined in a more rigorous \nfashion by those qualified to do so credibly. \n\nBut to say that nobody who fails to do elaborate double-blind studies is\ncapable of knowing their ass from a hole in the ground and to say that no\nideas that come from outside the scientific establishment could possibly\nbe worthy of serious investigation ... this truly marks one's attitude as\ndoctrinaire, cultist. This attitude is not compatible with a belief in\nreason. \n\n--\nIn the arguments between behaviorists and cognitivists, psychology seems \nless like a science than a collection of competing religious sects. ", "\nEd, as usual, makes a very good point.\n\nOne time a friend of mine at Sun sent me an e-mail. He composed it using the\nSun OpenWindows 3 \"mailtool\" which handles (non-MIME) \"attachments\" and the\nlike.\n\nSince I don't use \"mailtool\", I had to manually save it, cut & paste, and\nthen \"uudecode\" the actual attachment. What I got - after a not-inconsiderable\namount of time spent doing this - was an audio file. The original message\nwas over 32Kb of mail headers and uuencoded data; the resulting audio message\nwas a single sentence that I transcribed as a 135 character message.\n\nIf he had sent me the sentence in plain text, the e-mail would have been\naround 250 bytes, and it would have taken me about 3 seconds to process it at\nmost. Instead, it was 32k and it took at least a minute. A complete waste of\n(my) time and bandwidth, as far as I'm concerned. Sending plain text is still\nthe most efficient method of transmission, given the same transport mechanism.\nI shudder to think what would happen if everyone started posting their Usenet\narticles as audio files instead of plain text! Meltdown of the Net predicted!\nFilm at Eleven!\n\nBack to Mono!\t(-:\n\n[This sub-thread no longer has anything to do with PEM or administrative]\n[policy, so I've redirected followups back to comp.mail.mime ... - Greg ]\n", "\n\nFine then. Cut them off with pen and paper, and not the sword.\n\n\n", "\nGeez, what happened? She got a ticket for driving too slow???\n\n\nOh, are you saying you're not an edu.breath, then? Okay.\n", ":Just a bit off, Phil. We don't reprocess nuclear fuel because what\n:you get from the reprocessing plant is bomb-grade plutonium. It is\n:also cheaper, given current prices of things, to simply fabricate new\n:fuel rods rather than reprocess the old ones, creating potentially\n:dangerous materials (from a national security point of view) and then\n:fabricate that back into fuel rods.\n\nFabricating with reprocessed plutonium may result in something that may go\nkind of boom, but its hardly decent bomb grade plutonium. If you want bomb\ngrade plutonium use a research reactor, not a power reactor. But if you want\na bomb, don't use plutonium, use uranium.\n", "\n\n\nSo now you are saying that an Islamic Bank is something other than\nBCCI.\n\nWould you care to explain why it was that when I said \"I hope an \nIslamic Bank is something other than BCCI\", you called me a childish \npropagandist.", "[stuff deleted. all mine]\n\n\nAw come on. It worked great in the 1920's (or the movie version of the '20s\nanyways) :-)\n\n[stuff deleted about how revolvers are just as good as semi-autos]\n\nAll your points are very well taken and things that I haven't considered as\nI am not really familiar enough with handguns.\n\n\nHell, a Glock is the last thing that should be switched to. The only thing\nthat I know about a Glock is the lack of a real safety on it. Sure there is\nthat little thing in the trigger but that isn't too great of a safety.\nActually I don't watch those shows :-) And you're right (at least partially).\nI don't know much about handguns. I'm more familiar with rifles.\n\n\nNo flames here. All your points are well taken. Guess I still have a\nlot to learn but thanks to this discussion I already am :-) Guess I\nassume too many things like more bullets are better and that sort of\nthing. Of course you know what happens when you assume ......... :-)", "Jiann-ming Su writes\n\nIt wouldn't bother me...\n", "\nIf this is any surprise to you, *I'm* shocked.\n", "Pete Young, on the Tue, 20 Apr 93 08:29:21 GMT wibbled:\n\n: : Tsk, tsk, tsk. Another newbie bites the dust, eh? They'll learn.\n\n: Newbie. Sorry to disappoint you, but as far as the Internet goes I was\n: in Baghdad while you were still in your dads bag.\nIs this bit funny?\n\n: Most of the people who made this group interesting 3 or 4 years ago\n: are no longer around and I only have time to make a random sweep\n: once a week or so. Hence I missed most of this thread. \nI'm terribly sorry.\n\n: Based on your previous postings, apparently devoid of humour, sarcasm,\n: wit, or the apparent capacity to walk and chew gum at the same time, I\n: assumed you were serious. Mea culpa.\nI know, I know. Subtlety is sort of, you know, subtle, isn't it.\n\n: Still, it's nice to see that BNR are doing so well that they can afford\n: to overpay some contractors to sit and read news all day.\nThat's foreign firms for you.\n\n\n..and a touchy newbie, at that.\n\nWhat's the matter, too much starch in the undies?\n--\n\nNick (the Considerate Biker) DoD 1069 Concise Oxford None Gum-Chewer\n\nM'Lud.", "\n\n\n\nYeah, Simon's no rat-bastard, he's the Head Attack Puppy :-)\n\n\n", "\nYou're admitting a lot more than that. You are admitting that\nyour morals are situational. You are admitting that the actions\nof other people and the situation you are in help to determine\nhow you judge the moral significance of one of your own actions.\n\nIf you employ X degree of force, that's not moral, but if you employ\nX degree of force, but previously someone else has employed Y degree\nof force, and the situation is thus-and-so, that *is* moral.\n\nThis is quite different from saying \"Employing force on other people\nis immoral, period. Unfortunately, from time to time we are obliged\nto do this immoral thing for reasons of self-preservation, and so\nwe have to bear the moral consequences of that.\n\nFor what it's worth - and yes, I know you claim to be an agnostic -\nit's this ability to re-label things from \"immoral\" to \"moral\" \nthat I find one of the *least* attractive qualities of the religious\nmind.", "\n\n\nI use it to refer to those Christians who take a more\nconservative-literalist approach to the Bible, as distinct from\n\"liberals\".\n\n\nI would use the word \"Christian\" (unqualified) to describe someone to\nwhom the above definition applied. BTW, it applies to me.\n\n[deletia: Joe Gaut indicates his interest in the BD disaster is from a\ncivil liberties issue, not an attempt to justify Koresh's beliefs\nand/or practices.]\n\nI agree with Joe about this: if some group wants to believe in\nwhatever god or Invisible Pink Unicorns and go off and live together\nand have group sex, or no sex, or sex only for the leaders (but NOT\nwith children), then, as much as I might believe them to be misguided,\nI think they should have the legal right. And I hope the\ninvestigation will start by determining whether the feds had any\n*legitimate* reason for going after Koresh in the first place (before\nmoving on to consider the wisdom of various tactics used).\n\n[Joe goes on to dispute the child-abuse allegations. I'll\n(provisionally) accept this, unless someone has evidence to support\nthe allegations?]\n\nActually I wasn't thinking about the (alleged) child abuse, but about\nthe reports that he had sex with, and fathered children by, several\nwomen in the cult. I agree this is not a legal matter - consenting\nadults and all that - but Stephen Tice seems to be defending Koresh's\nbeliefs and practices from specifically *Christian* perspective, not a\ncivil liberties perspective. \n\nI think my question is not really aimed at Joe (and possibly not at\nRay Cote either, who seems to also be taking the political angle), but\nat Stephen Tice.\n\n", "\n\n\nAnd still we wonder why they stereotype us...", "frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes ...\n\nTo the degree that relativism is a more accurate decription of the\ntruth than is objectivism, it provides more power and ability to\ncontrol events.\n\nAssuming, for the moment, that morals _are_ relative, then two\nrelativists can recognize that neither has a lock on the absolute\ntruth and they can proceed to negotiate a workable compromise that\nproduces the desired results.\n\nAssuming that there is an absolute morality, two disagreeing \nobjectivists can either be both wrong or just one of them right; there\nis no room for compromise. Once you beleive in absolute morals,\nyou must accept that you are amoral or that everyone who disagrees\nwith you is amoral.\n\nGiven a choice between a peaceful compromise or endless contention,\nI'd say that compromise seems to be \"better\".\n", "This is an official RFD for the creation of a new newsgroup for the\ngeneral discussion of the Microsoft Access RDMS.\n\nNAME: COMP.DATABASES.ACCESS\n\nMODERATION: UNMODERATED. At this time, no need for a moderator has been\nassertained. Future evaluation will determine if one is needed.\n\nPURPOSE: \nAccess is a new RDBMS for the Windows Operating System. It includes WYSIWYG\ndesign tools for easy creation of tables, reports, forms and queries and a\ndatabase programming language called Access Basic.\nTHe purpose of the group will be to provide help to people who use Access's \nWYSIWYG design tools to create simple databases as well as to people who use \nAccess Basic to create complex databases.\n\nRATIONALE:\nEventhough Access is a new RDBMS, it is very popular because of its Graphical\nDevelopment enviroment and its initial low price.\nBeen a version 1.0 product means that all Access users are Novices.\nFor that reason a newsgroup is needed where Access users can discuss \ntheir experiences with the product and answer each other's questions.", ": Concerning the proposed newsgroup split, I personally am not in favor of\n: doing this. I learn an awful lot about all aspects of graphics by reading\n: this group, from code to hardware to algorithms. I just think making 5\n: different groups out of this is a wate, and will only result in a few posts\n: a week per group. I kind of like the convenience of having one big forum\n: for discussing all aspects of graphics. Anyone else feel this way?\n: Just curious.\n: \n: \n: Daemon\n: \n\nYes. I also like knowing where to go to ask a question without getting\nhell for putting it in the wrong newsgroup.", "Yamanari,\n\n---Hey isn't it funny how betas have bugs in them....\nHey...do me a favor and don't put up stupid posts.", "\nWe would like to keep it that way. Thats the point. By reacting\nstrongly and forcefully now, we will assure that we continue to remain\nfree. You cannot overreact to a threat like this. The worst that\nhappens if we overreact is that we waste time and effort. The worst that\nhappens if we underreact is tyranny. I prefer overreaction myself.\n\n\nDoesn't that tell you how precious and hard to maintain freedom is?\n\nOnly through centuries of overreaction have we managed to maintain\nourselves in this state of even moderate freedom. I suggest that\noverreacting now and in the future is a good thing.\n\n--\nPerry Metzger\t\tpmetzger@shearson.com", "\n\n------------ Part 10 of 14 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This is the story of Kent, the archetype Finn, that lives in the \nKS> Bay Area, and tried to purchase Thomas Paine's \"Age of Reason\". This\nKS> man was driving around, to Staceys, to Books Inc, to \"Well, Cleanlighted\nKS> Place\", to Daltons, to various other places.\n\nKS> When he asked for this book, the well educated American book store\nKS> assistants in most placed asked him to check out the thriller section,\nKS> or then they said that his book has not been published yet, but they\nKS> should receive the book soon. In some places the assistants bluntly\nKS> said that they don't know of such an author, or that he is not \nKS> a well known living author, so they don't keep copies of his books.\n\nKS> Such is the life and times of America, 200+ years after the revolution.\n\nSigh, now I don't feel so bad. Searching for a copy in bookstores has\nbeen a habit of mine for at least two years now. I spend a *lot* of \ntime browsing through bookstores, new and and used, and I've not once\nseen a copy. Now, I know, all I do is pick up a phone and order the\ndarned thing, but come on, this is America and he's one of the founding\nfathers. And no one carries his books? Sure, you can find \"Common\nSense\" but I think that's because it's required reading for most\ncolleges. \n\nI did find one hole-in-the-wall bookstore where the owner said that they \nusually carry one or two copies, but that they were currently out. I haven't\nbeen back since so I don't know if he was telling the truth or not.\n\nsigh...\n\n", "Sorry, Bill, I had to clear this up. There may be good evolutionary\narguments against homosexuality, but these don't qualify.\n\n[deletions]\n[deletions]\n\n Oh? I guess all those social insects (e.g. ants, bees, etc.) which\nhave one breeding queen and a whole passel of sterile workers are on\nthe way out, huh?\n \n\n I refer you to the bonobos, a species of primate as closeley related to\nhumans as chimpanzees (that is, very closely). They have sex all the\ntime, homosexual as well as heterosexual. When the group finds food, they\nhave sex. Before the go to sleep at night, they have sex. After they\nescape from or fight off prdators, they have sex. Sex serves a very important\nsocial function above and beyond reproduction in this species. A species\nclosely related to humans. There is some indication that sex performs\na social function in humans, as well, but even if not, this shows that\nsuch a function is not *impossible*.\n\n Sincerely,\n\n Ray Ingles ingles@engin.umich.edu", "\n\nBill,\nNo flame intended but you're way, way off base. In simple terms Kirilian\nphotography registers the electromagnetical fields around objects, in simple,\nit takes pictures of your aura.\n\n-- \nGreg ", "Hi there kids and kidlets...\n\n\nIt your ol' pal the KotPM (Keeper of the Pin Money!)\n\n\nI've got good new and bad news...\n\n\tGood news - I got laid..er...\n\tThe pins will be coming, to use the computer software phrase, \"real\n\tsoon now\"\n\n\tBad news - Right after we placed our order, the company upped its\n\tminimum order for manufacturing. We got in under the wire (with\n\tan order of 115 or so pins), but as a result of the low number of\n\tpins, we were relegated to the \"we'll get to it in-between other\n\truns\" bin. As a result, it seems that it may be another 4 or 5 weeks\n\tuntil your beloved Geeky is guiding you along the blacktop.. (And\n\twe thought madonnas on the dashboard were foolish; hmmm, now, if that\n\twere Madonna sitting on my dashboard, that could be DANGEROUS...hell.\n\tI'm tough.)\n\n SO...please continue to be patient. As soon as they arrive, I'll post\n \tthe grand announcement, and rush our Messiah on his way directly\n\tto your abode. In the meantime, if you need revised versions of the\n\tholy word of Geeky, please send $15.95 cash or money order (no COD's)\n\tto:\n\n\tRanch Apocalyp...er......Ashram Geeky, 305 Cyberspace Place...\n\n\tI'm off to MSF class...hope it's not too BORING...my wife made me go\n\twith her!", "The package is called Sun and Sand, it includes:\n\n --5 days/ 4 nights(2+2) accommodations in Orlando and Daytona beach;\n\n --hotels are selected from major hotel chains and family resorts;\n\n --two adults and up to three children;\n\n --fully transferable;\n\n --expires at 09/93, $20 for extention of one more year;\n\n --it needs a 45 days advance reservation (esp. for peak season),\n the reservation department will offer a coupon book which may\n give you saving up to $150.\n\n --price: I bought it for $199, which is a good deal for peak\n seasons. For now, I will not turn down any reasonable offers.\n must sell.\n\nIt doesn't include transportation. And you have to pay $3/day for hotel\ntax.", "\nI thought Bill James' latest book completely and totally sucked. I bought\nit, but will not purchase anything of his ever again without THOROUGHLY\nlooking at it first. What tripe.\n\nThe book is inconsistent, and filled with selective analysis. James\nclaims to be looking forward, and then makes some absolutely bizarre\nstatements of value. Not only that, but I got the impression he\nprobably glanced at the book for about an hour before he put his name\non it. \n\nTo say I was disappointed is a grand understatement.\n\n", ":>>\n:>> As someone else has pointed out, why would the stove be in use on a warm \n:>> day in Texas. \n:>\n:>Do YOU eat all your food cold?\n:\n:Ever hear of electric ovens or microwaves? Very popular.\n:Electric stoves outside metro-areas especially.\n\nHey, Einstein, ever tried to use an electric stove or microwave WITHOUT\nELECTRICITY? It's been shut off for weeks now, courtesy of your local FBI\nassault squad.\n\nNow, are you going to put your foot in your mouth or shall I get a crowbar\nand assist you?\n\n\nMike Ruff", "\nNot necessarily. If the body had been denatured (cooked) or dehydrated due\nto the heat, a projectile needs only a minimal kinetic force to penetrate.\nIn fire aftermaths, bodies tend to fall apart or loose large chunks of\nmeat with little effort. Medical Examiners tend not to like cleaning up\nsuch scenes. \n\nAs such, if the body had been suitably cooked, a bullet comming from a\nmagazine explosion would more than likely have enough force to enter and\nthus it would be difficult to determine whether a bullet entered at the\ntime of death, or much later, unless you were trained to look for the\nevidence. Texas Rangers are not pathologists. \n\n", "\n\n\n[stuff deleted]\n\nActually, you get a ton of weapons and ammunition, 70-80 followers, and hole\nup in some kind of compound, and wait for . . . . :-)", ": Ok, what's more important to gay Christians? Sex, or Christianity?\n: Christianity I would hope. Would they be willing to forgo sex\n: completely, in order to avoid being a stumbling block to others,\n: to avoid the chance that their interpretation might be wrong,\n: etc? If not, why not? Heterosexuals abstain all the time.\n: (It would be nice if protestant churches had celibate orders\n: to show the world that sex is not the important thing in life)\n\nThe difference is that straight members are given the choice of\nabstaining or not, and celibacy is recognized as a gift, given only\nto some. Gays are told that, as a condition of acceptance, they\n_must_ be celibate. I don't believe that God gives me a forced choice\nbetween having a relationship with God and expressing my heterosexuality\n(within the context of a faithful relationship). Nor do I believe\nthat God gives that forced choice to gays. Sex or Christianity is a\nfalse dichotomy.\n\n: To tell the truth, gay churches remind me a lot of Henry the VIII\n: starting the Church of England in order to get a divorce (or is\n: this a myth). Note that I am not denying that gay Christians are\n: Christian.\n\nFor my part, gay churches remind me of blacks starting their own churches\neither because they were not allowed at all in the white churches, or, at\nbest, only with special restrictions that did not apply to white members.", "Downtown FURNISHED Summer Sublet\n\n May 15 thru Aug 15\n Great location at:\n 215 N. Frances St.\n & Johnson St. (Across Witte)\n Near Nitty Gritty & Near Howard Johnson\n Near State Street & Near South East Dorms\n Near University Square & Near SERF\n Two bedroom\n Your own spacious room\n (the larger!)\n Laundry available\n Parking available\n Bathroom\n Kitchen\n Large Closet\n Dual Desks\n Just pay for electricity (~$7/month)\n\n Asking $500 for whole summer!\n\n Send inquiries to:\n Howard\n 608-255-6379\n moy@cae.wisc.edu\n", "Could someone repost the FAQs for this group, please?", "-> \n-> > Besides which, we don't *want* Clinton assasinated, because that would make h\n-> > a martyr a la JFK.\n-> > \n-> > It's a much better deal to have him end his term of office in disgrace, after\n-> > watching all his liberal democrat friends on his staff run this nation down t\n-> > toilet.\n-> > \n-> > Assuming, of course, that the riots a fortnight from now don't do it for him.\n-> \n-> \n-> He'd have to go a far ways to run things down as bad as Reagan and Bush \n-> did. We didn't have riots but Bush got dumped out on his spotty Behind.\n-> \n-> \n-> We'll see in 4 years.\n-> \n-> \n-> Pope Charles Slack in our time!\n-> \n-> ?s\n\n\tYou need to stop watching TV and start reading some history.", "In this giant bally-ho over this Clipper chip I noticed a rather\ndisturbing trend in some of the E-mail and posts I've tossing back and\nforth. \n\nSomebody asked me what was wrong about overreacting in cases such as this.\n\nThe reason is very simple: How many people do you want to die in a riot? \nIn a new Civil War? \n\nEverybody is jumping up and down and screaming about it, and I'm worried\nthat people are going to reach for their hammers and rifles before their pens\nand paper. \n\nCan people work within the system before trying to break it? Examine your\nhistory books, and find out how many armed revolutions led to Democratic\n(or Democratic style) governments. I think you'll only find one in over\nfive thousand years of written history.\n\nThat's not very good odds. \n\nSomebody once said something like: \"Armed Violence is meant only to be\nused in response to an armed attack. It is not meant to be used in\nagression. This is the difference between self-defence and murder.\"\n\nLet's try to avoid killing things, eh? There's enough blood shed in the\nworld, without adding a couple of riots, Civil Wars, etc.\n\nI'm probably overreacting. But what I've read scared me a lot. I don't\nwant my children growing up in a War Zone.\n\n", "Dear Mr. Davidsson,", "A few questions for Janet Reno:\n\n\tWhy don't you think generals have any place in law enforcement?\n\n\tIf the ATF/FBI had proof that Koresh was:\n\n\t\tA child molester\n\t\tA child abuser\n\t\tA wife abuser\n\t\tBigamist\n\t\tSexual Deviant (not a crime in all 50 states, yet)\n\tAs well as\n\t\tIllegally modify weapons\n\n\tWhy wasn't he simply arrested during one of his morning jogs? Why did\nthe allegations of child/wife/sex crimes only come out after the Branch\nDavidians repelled the initial assualt?\n\n\tWas it because it became necessary to demonize David Koresh? Do you\nfeel responsible for the deaths of over 80 people? How many would be alive to\nday if Koresh had been arrested outside the compound?\n\n\n\tInquiring minds want to know.\n\n\t[Although Janet was installed after the siege began, her purge of the\njustice dept. leaves only her people in charge.]", "\n\nWell I agree with you in the sense that they have no \"moral\" right to inflict\nthese rules, but there is one thing I might add: at the very least, almost\neverybody wants to avoid pain, and if that means sacrificing some stuff for a\nherd morality, then so be it. \n\n\nRight, and since they grew up and learned around us, they have some idea of our\nright and wrong, which I think must, in part, be incorporated. Very rarely do\nyou see criminal behaviour for \"philosophical reasons\"\n\n\n\n(stuff deleted)\n\n-- \n\nbest regards,\n\n--Adam", "\nThe Stacy Koon-Lawrence Powell defense! The decisions of Janet\nReno and Bill Clinton in this affair are essentially the moral\nequivalents of Stacy Koon's. Reno and Clinton have the advantage\nin that they investigate themselves. ", "\n Can You report CRT and other register state in this mode ?\n Thank's.", " >>>Does the greatly increased rates of incarceration amongst\n >>>blacks show that they are dysfunctional or that the majority\n >>>of them support criminal activity?\n >>>\n >Isn't this a matter of demographics? Doesn't this simply show\n >that since criminal behaviour is common (or apt to be common)\n >in the 18-34 (insert your favorite correct numbers here) year\n >old range and since the percentage of blacks in this range is\n >higher than in other groups, then it follows statistically\n >that more blacks in prison is an expected result?\n >\n >Note that I haven't said anything about blacks being given\n >stiffer or longer sentences than other groups. I'm sure this\n >has to have an effect on the issue of over-representation of\n >blacks in prison...\n\nBlacks have the same (+- 2%) crime report rate, arrest rate, and incarceration\nrate for violent crimes.\n\nSo I doubt that for violent crimes, that there is any inherent bias mechanism\npresent.\n\nThere is a wider discrepancy for all crimes for blacks wrt to 3 categories.\n\nInterestingly enough, the discrepancy is the largest in the Southern\nUnited States -- where blacks are incarcerated well BELOW the average in\nthe rest of the United States! Which points to an anti-bias-against wrt\nblacks.\n\nIn any case, for violent crimes and burglary and drug selling, blacks are\nreported 53%, arrested 44%, and are present in jails/prisons 47% (1988).\n\nConsidering that 12% of the population is black, 6% are black males, and\nsome percentage of that is out of the high/low age groups, we do have a\nsituation where (if I remember my old calculations right) 4% of the\npopulation commits almost half of the really nasty crimes.\n\nBlacks with similar histories (crime) to whites get the same sentences,\nexcept in the South, where they receive around 20% less on paper!!\n\n\n\n-- \nThere are actually people that STILL believe Love Canal was some kind of\nenvironmental disaster. Weird, eh?", "\n ah c'mon, give the guy three days and see what comes up.\n\n LEO", "\n\n I would not be suprised if the equipment is compatible, in fact New York\nTelephone (NYNEX) spend a lot of money on Swedish switching equipment\nrecently.\n\n\n You can guess what brand of equipment I refer to :-)\n\nMichael", "\n\nYes a flotation tank, combined with floride breathing water(REF: the Abyss\nbreathing solution I think).. also the right position of the astronaut and\nstrapping you can probably get much more than 45gs in an accesloration..\nMore like near 100g (or somewhat less)..\n\nSaw I book called the \"Time Master\" (I thjink that was the title) that had some\nideas on how fast and all you could go..", "\n\n AH! But what, exactly, is \"inherently abhorrent\" and WHY is it so?\nWhat you're saying is, in effect, \"I think some things are repulsive,\nand I know a whole bunch of other people who agree with me, so they\nshould be deemed absolutely immoral now and forever, period\".\n\n Which in and of itself is nice enough; to some extent I agree with\nyou. But I do _not_ agree that things are 'inherently' or 'absolutely'\nimmoral; they are labeled 'immoral' each for its own good reason, and if\nthe reason can even theoretically change, then so can the label.\n\n[...]\n\n No it doesn't. Humans are to some extent similar, because we all\nbelong to the same species; that that species has evolved is another\nstory altogether. To a certain extent evolution can even lend credence\nto moral absolutism (of a flavour).\n\n[...]\n\n You're saying morality is what'll keep society alive and kicking.\nIt is, I think, up to a point; but societies are not all alike, and\nneither are their moralities.\n\n\n Similar != identical.\n\n\n No, it's falsifiable through finding someoe who was \"created\ndifferent\", whatever that might be in the \"real\" world.\n", "Actually, many of us have noted this. We have noted that the program\n\tstarted at least 4 years ago, that the contracts with VLSI Technology\n\tand Microtoxin were let at least 14 months ago, that production of the\n\tchips is well underway, and so forth.\n\n\tNobody I know has claimed Clinton intitiated the program. But he chose\n\tto go ahead with it.\n\nPerhaps the NSA realised that *no-one* would even contemplate falling for\nthe dual-escrow bluff while under the Bush administration and *had* to\nwait for a Democrat govt to con into promoting this because people *might*\njust believe they were honest. (Didn't work, did it? :-) )", "Is it not the case that, in the eyes of the law, when someone is aware of\nsomething and has the capability of taking action and does not, that individual\nmay be held responsible for that action?\n\nExample: the driver of a getaway car may be held as an accomplice to murder.\n\t The \"I didn't know\" defense spawned the \"ignorance of the law is no excuse\"\n\nWhen an individual is held as a material witness to a crime, is there a criminal\ncharge against the individual? If not, on what grounds is the person imprisoned?\n", "\nBut in this case I said I hoped that BCCI was *not* an Islamic bank.\n\n\nBut in this case I said I hoped that BCCI was *not* an Islamic bank.\n\n\nBut in this case I said I hoped that BCCI was *not* an Islamic bank.", "\nIf a Christian means someone who believes in the divinity of Jesus, it is safe\nto say that Jesus was a Christian.\n--\n\"On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Leftover Turkey!\nOn the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Turkey Casserole\n that she made from Leftover Turkey.\n[days 3-4 deleted] ... Flaming Turkey Wings! ...\n -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait)", "\nI have noticed that newspapers don't even know what a fundamentalist is;\nat the least, they confuse new evangelicals and fundamentalists. In this\nnews group, the liberals don't even know what a fundamentalist is (crying\nout \"legalist\" at anyone who believes and obeys God's Word). A fundamentalist\nwould train their children in the way God proscribes, not in the way that\nman proscribes. This would not include life threatening beatings but would\ninclude corporal punishment. \n\nTo the liberals, I cry out infidel at anyone who does not believe God's Word.\n\nSignature follows:\n\"Your statutes are wonderful: therefore I obey them.\" Psalm 119:129\n=========================================================================\nDavid L. Hanson\nAny opinions expressed are my own!\n\n[As most people here know, I believe fundamentalist is sufficiently\nill-defined that I advise using some more specific term. I think many\npeople use it to cover people who believe in inerrancy and a number of\nrelated concepts (e.g. denial of evolution). While the original\nfundamentals movement was somewhat more specific, I would think most\npeople who accept inerrancy would actually support the whole original\nagenda. (It included a list of key traditional doctrines, e.g. the\nvirgin birth.) The term is now being used by the press to describe\naggressive conservative religions in general, most typically those who\nare attempting to legislate religion.\n\nLegalism is yet another ill-defined term. However there is some\nreason for its use in this context. In fact the common theological\ndefinition is the believe that salvation is through the Law. I hope\nno one here believes that our conservative contributors hold this\nview. However there is a basic difference in approach over what we\nexpect to get out of the Bible. The conservative approach expects to\nfind specific behavioral rules. Generally the posters advocating this\napproach talk about the relevant passages from Paul's letter as God's\nLaw. The liberal approach expects to find general principles, but it\nregards specific behavioral rules subject to change depending upon the\nculture and other things. It's easy to see why a liberal would regard\nthe conservative approach as legalism. It's hard to know quite what\nother term to use. The issue in this case is not inerrancy, because\nno one is saying that Paul made a factual error. Rather, the question\nis whether his statements are to be taken as Law. Calling the\npositive answer legalism seems obvious enough terminology. I haven't\nseen any good alternative.", "The people who post to this particular newsgroup are either too cowardly,\ntoo arrogant, or too apathetic to discuss this issue since I have yet to\nsee any discussion grace my computer screen. While it holds PARTICULAR\ninterest to the African-American community, everyone has something to gain\nfrom discussing it. As any knowledgable person should know, Christianity\nhas been used in this country to tighten the spiritual, emotional, & mental\nhold slavery placed on the minds, souls & hearts of African-Americans. \nThis was most effectively done by the display of white icons of Jesus in\nslave churches to encourage the godly superiority of slaveowners. It\nwasn't enough that the slaveowner was your provider, but he was also your\nGOD, to be looked upon with unconditional love & loyalty and to be\nworshipped with great pride. But how culturally & biblically accurate are\nthese icons? Pictures & statues of a Black Jesus have been found in\nEuropean countries, as that of a Black Madonna. But what about Biblical\nphysical descriptions of Jesus, His hair being compared to that of wool,\nHis feet to that of brass? And think about the area of the world where all\nBiblical actions took place. I welcome all intelligent commentary on this\nimportant topic; flamers need not reply.\n\nSherlette \n\nP.S. I expect at least THIS type of response: \"It doesn't matter what\ncolor His skin was; His actions & what He did for mankind are what counts.\"\n This is true; I am not questioning this. But He walked the earth for 3\ndecades as a HUMAN; this part of His existence intrigues me. And as for\nsaying that \"it doesn't matter...\" to a member of a physically emancipated\npeople who is still struggling for MENTAL emancipation, believe me: IT\nMATTERS.", "How does the radio Electronics free information cards work.\nDo they just send you some general information about the companies that\nadvertise in their magazine or does it also give you sign you up for a\ncatalog. \n", "was...\n", "\n\nDenmark, eh? Should have taken a short sword and cleaved his car\nin half. Since I assume you didn't have a short sword on you,\nI certainly have no problems with your choice of substitute action.", "\nAnyone who thinks being gay and Christianity are not compatible should \ncheck out Dignity, Integrity, More Light Presbyterian churches, Affirmation,\nMCC churches, etc. Meet some gay Christians, find out who they are, pray\nwith them, discuss scripture with them, and only *then* form your opinion.\n-- \n\n", "\nedu-breaths with more riceburner than brain...", "\nThere has been no empirical evidence to support the first statement. True,\nthere is a power surge at startup that has the potential to do damage, but\nthe internal power supply is well-protected. (I've turned my Mac on and off \nsix or seven times a day for three years without problem). The monitor is\nthe same. To leave it on is to waste a lot of electricity -- twice as much\nas a television, possibly more.\n\nTurn it off when you're not using it. It'll save you money and the world\na few more resources.\n\n-Kelley-\n-- \n-----------------------------------------------------------------\nThomas Kelley Boylan, PowerPC, IBM Austin, kelleyb@austin.ibm.com", "\n\nAs one of the happily sleeping people, I would just like to ask this->\naren't people just slightly overreacting to this? Or are we all of a\nsudden going to draw parallels to Nazi Germany and Communist Russia?\n\nThe point of the matter is that; yes this is a serious problem. But it is\nnot the end of the world. Guess what? We're doing something now you\ncan't do in a Communist country or Nazi Germany. We're complaining about\nit, (or rather, you're complaining about it) and nobody is shooting at us. \n\n(Or, rather, if they're shooting at me, they have real bad aim. (:-) )\n\nGUESS WHAT PEOPLE? You live in one of the few countries in the world\nwhere a person can complain without getting shot at. \n\nPeople are always complaining that somebody did this wrong, or somebody\ndid that wrong, or whatever. Sit down and figure out two things:\n\n1) What have they done right?\n2) How much worse can it get?\n\nAnd you'll find that you and I, are pretty damn lucky.\n\nSo let's talk about it, get some action going, decide what's going on. \nBut let's not overreact! \n\n\n", "\n\n\nBut you still get into trouble. For example - how often are crimes\nof violence not \"hate crimes\"? The question is then who are you\nhating? If its another gang member, then its better than if\nthe person you hate is of a differnt color? \n\nAlso, is it realistic to declare that crimes of hate are worse\nthan crimes of gross negligence? (Like random drive by shootings\nwhere they can't be hate crimes because the shooter doesn't know\nwho he is going to hit - he just shoots into the crowd).\n\n\n\nFirst, I heard today that there is a good chance that the U.S. instead\nof New York is going after the bombers. This means no capital punishment.\n\nSecondly, double jepardy does help keep the government from going after\nyou for first one murder, then the next, etc. A \"sovereign\" has essentially\none chance with a single fact pattern (such as the World Trade Center bombing).\nThat is why the bombers will in all probability be tried for all the\ndeaths, as well as the property damages, as well as conspiracy, at once.\nOf course, as we discovered in the Rodney King case, there are two\n\"sovereigns\", neither of which can try you twice for the same crime.", "\nBut now you are contradicting yourself in a pretty massive way,\nand I don't think you've even noticed.\n\nIn another part of this thread, you've been telling us that the\n\"goal\" of a natural morality is what animals do to survive.\n\nBut suppose that your omniscient being told you that the long\nterm survival of humanity requires us to exterminate some \nother species, either terrestrial or alien.\n\nDoes that make it moral to do so?", "\nThis story was in the LA Times a few months ago.\nThe Clinton administration is exploring every avenue of\n\"revenue enhancement\", but not all will be chosen.", "The temp on my 486DX2/66 is over 96C (measured with a K-type thermocouple \nand Fluke 55 dig thermometer). This is an \"idle\" temp - not doing lots of\nbus i/o, not doing floating point, not doing 32-bit protected mode etc. This\nis in a Micron computer, without heatsink.\n\nI recently put a heatsink/fan on the chip, but I might take the fan off. It\nmakes a horrible whine at times, and I wonder what the vibration is doing to\nthe pins on the cpu etc...\n", "\nPRC = People's Republic of China != Cambodia. Go play.\n", "\n\nSpeaking as one who knows relativity and quantum mechanics, I say: \nBullshit.\n\n\nSpeaking as one who has taken LSD, I say: \nBullshit.\n\n\n\nHow could striving toward an ideal be in any way useful, if the ideal \nhad no objective existence?\n--\nMark Pundurs", "(in answer to Amruth Laxman\n\n\nApart from the fact that you get G in the pull-out, not the dive, that\nfigure is about right for sustained G, no protection.\nThe duration of G, it's rate of onset, body position and support aids are\nall critical parts of the equation. I remember one note about instrumented\ngridiron players recording peaks about 200G. Stapp, the aviation doctor,\neither by accident or design, took a short-period 80G in a rocket-sled\ndecelleration, eye-balls-out against a standard (1950's) harness. It had\nto be short, calculate the stopping time, even from 500 - 600mph at that\nG. A bang-seat can get up to about 60 G, and you'd better be sitting\nstraight. Find the book by Martin-Bakers human guinea pig to hear how bad\nit can get if the rate of onset is too high. A reclining position and a\ngood G-suit can keep a pilot functioning at around 12G.\n\nA flotation tank should be a good bet, since you can treat the body as a\nfluid, and high-pressure situations are not new. Anyone have any figures?", "\n\n\n\nSo I should be very comfortable that 500,000,000 people want to convert me to\nIslam. Or, to convert me to ANYTHING. \n\nThere are many types of violence, physical murder is only one.\n\n'Trying' to convert is an insult. It's like trying to tell me that me and/or\nmy God/my lack of God are just crap, that I need a new, 'converted' one.\n\nThis does not apply for muslims only, of course. Same for jews and for some\nfriendly, nicely dressed neighbours who show on sunday with empty speaches\nand cheap booklets about some church ....\n\nAnd when the objective is (I think, however that you are wrong) to convert \neverybody, it's just a matter of time when violence will occur.\n\n\nAren't we able to learn anything from thouthands of years of 'conversion related\nviolence' ? \n\nWhy not let 'the other, more inferiour' people live as they wish and take care \nyour business?. You do assume that they are inferiour (or their beliefs are)\nas long as you want to change their thinking.\n\n", "}>More like those who use their backs instead of their minds to make\n}>their living who are usually ignorant and intolerant of anything outside\n}>of their group or level of understanding.\n\nThere seems to be some confusion between rednecks and white trash.\nThe confusion is understandable, as there is substantial overlap\nbetween the two sets. Let me see if I can clarify:\n\nRednecks: Primarily use their backs instead of their minds to make a\n\tliving. Usually somewhat ignorant (by somebody's standards,\n\tanyway) because they have never held education above basic\n\treading/writing/math skills to be that important to their\n\teventual vocation. Note I did not say stupid, just ignorant.\n\t(They might be stupid, but then so are some high percentage\n\tof any group).\n\nWhite trash: \"White trash fit the stereotype referred to by the\n\tword 'nigger' better than any black person I ever met, only\n\twith the added 'bonus' that white trash are mean as hell.\"\n\t-- my father. Genuinely lazy (not just out of work or under-\n\tqualified), good-for-nothing, dishonest, white people who are\n\tmean as snakes. The \"squeal like a pig\" boys in _Deliverance_\n\tmay or may not have been rednecks, but they were sure as hell\n\twhite trash.\n\nWhite trash are assuredly intolerant of anything outside of their\ngroup or level of understanding. Rednecks may or may not be.", "\nHear, hear! Thanks, Robbie.\n\nYou also don't read that much about violence *against* teenagers, such as\nGeorge Bush burying alive tens of thousands of unarmed Iraqi 17-year-olds,\nwho were trying to surrender, with bulldozers.\n", "...\n...", "THE WHITE HOUSE \n\n Office of the Press Secretary\n_________________________________________________________________\nFor Immediate Release April 5, 1993\n\n\n\n\n PUBLIC SCHEDULE OF THE PRESIDENT\n TUESDAY, APRIL 6, 1993\n\n\n\n11:15 AM EST \t PRESIDENT CLINTON DELIVERS REMARKS with \n Egyptian President Mubarek, the East Room, \n The White House\n\n \t Open Press\n\n\n\n\n FUTURE SCHEDULE OF THE PRESIDENT\n\n\nAPRIL 16, 1993 \t PRESIDENT CLINTON MEETS with Japanese Prime \n Minister Miyazawa, the White House\n", "\nI just called them and they said the order went out on the 13th. They're\nputting a UPS tracer on it. Watch, it'll be waiting for me at home\ntonight. :-)\n\nDean\n", "i]>>Since there was no sniper fire, doing nothing was equally effective,\n\nWhat sources did Sauter and Hines use? In Congressional hearings\nlater, the newspaper folk admitted that their reports were completely\nwrong. (Some of their excuses are understandable, while others amount\nto gross negligence. Then there's their \"we lied\".) As far as I\nknow, they never did the followup.\n\n\nI don't have any relevant knowledge about the counter-sniper tactics\nor what the govt did with the big war toys. That's why I've only\ncommented on what they couldn't have accomplished, no matter what\nthey did.\n\n\nNot in Detroit, not during the 60s. That's newspaper copy and they\nadmitted later that they were wrong.\n\n-andy", "\n\n\nThere is a whole constellation of custom built navigation beacon satellites\nin the process of being phased out right now. The TRANSIT/OSCAR satellites\nare being replaced by GPS. Or were you thinking of deep space navigation,\nwhich is best done with doppler/VLBI/ stellar measurements. I do not think\nadditional radio beacons would help much.", "\n\n \n You don't have to. *It* believes in YOU.\n\n\n\n\n Well, looking at our new government pals, I'm inclined to\n agree. I don't much believe in our money, either. :)\n\n\n\n\n Oh, ho HO! If only you knew! :)\n\n Yup, I'm DEFINITELY checking out foreign currency, thanks to\n to this newsgroup. It sure doesn't take much thinking to realize\n what direction the U.S. is headed.\n\n\n", "\n\n\n\nThe alt.* hierarchie is created for 2 purposes:\n1. For groups which do not fit under the comp.* or other 'official'\n hierarchies\n2. For the fast creation of hot new newsgroups like alt.gulf.war\n\nBecause there is no voting process or any other control facilities,\nsites are free to decide not to carry (some of) the alt groups.\n\nTherefore, it is (I think) desirable to try to create comp.graphics.\n{raytrace, rendering or whatever} and not an alt-group", "Well, that would depend on how much we wanted the US and how much\nwe wanted the $1, wouldn't it?\n-Ekr\n", "\nCite source, please.\n\n\n--Mike\n\n\n\n", "\n\n\n\nHey, joe -- assuming you're old enough to remember it -- how did you feel\nabout presidential responsibility every time Reagan said \"I don't recall\" \nabout his arms-for-hostages meetings with the Ollie North gang?\n\nHow did you feel about it when Bush said he \"was out of the loop on that\ndecision\" when he was right there in the thick of it?\n\nOh, right. \"He was responsible in the sense that he was briefed, but so\nwhat -- shit happens!\" Is that what you said?\n\n-- ", "Robert MacElwaine sez (again!);\n\n\nOK, I got it. Actually, these message of MacElwaine's are coded messages.\nRead only the caps, and it all comes clear!:\n\n\n\nMaybe it's a message telling us what actually happened to the legendary\nLarson. Perhaps it's a warning that one should not expend too much\neffort trying to counter MacElwaine's postings. Who can be sure? :-)\n\n-Tommy Mac\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTom McWilliams 517-355-2178 wk \\ They communicated with the communists,\n18084tm@ibm.cl.msu.edu 336-9591 hm \\ and pacified the pacifists. -TimBuk3", "\n\nBut, the goal need not be a subjective one. For instance, the goal of\nnatural morality is the propogation of a species, perhaps. It wasn't\nreally until the more intelligent animals came along that some revisions\nto this were necessary. Intelligent animals have different needs than\nthe others, and hence a morality suited to them must be a bit more\ncomplicated than \"the law of the jungle.\" I don't think that\nself-actualization is so subjective as you might think. And, by\nobjectivity, I am assuming that the ideals of any such system could be\ncarried out completely.", "\nMy opinion is this: In a society whose economy is primarily based on \ncapitalism, the role of government should be to provide those goods and \nservices that need providing for the general public's good. BUT government \nshould supply those necessary goods and services only when it is impossible \nfor a private enterprise (or individual) to make money from providing them.\nI agree with some of the other posts that this train probably can not make \nmoney and will rely heavily on State tax dollars. \n\nThe question, I think, then becomes: Do we, the general public, need the train?\n\nI certainly do not, nor will I ever, need this train in Lubbock, Texas. With\nthe inexpensive air travel provided between Dallas and Houston, I don't think\npeople in Dallas or Houston need it either.", "\n\nYes, it looks like very good indeed.\n\n\nNope.\n", "\n(Attempting to define 'objective morality'):\n\n\n So long as you keep that \"almost\" in there, freedom will be a\nmostly valuable thing, to most people. That is, I think you're really\nsaying, \"a real big lot of people agree freedom is subjectively valuable\nto them\". That's good, and a quite nice starting point for a moral\nsystem, but it's NOT UNIVERSAL, and thus not \"objective\".\n\n\n It isn't in Sahara.\n", "\nDo people expect the Texans congressmen to act as the N.J. Republicans did?\n-- \n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nSteve Podleski\t\t\t| phone: 216-433-4000\nNASA Lewis Research Center \t| \nCleveland, Ohio 44135 \t| email: pspod@gonzo.lerc.nasa.gov ", "\n\nSome tape archivists suggest what they were after had something to do with\nthe Kennedy assasination. Let's hear all of the tapes real soon, shall we?\n ", "\n\n\nAmerican, perhaps, but nothing military about it. I learned (mostly)\nslugs when we talked English units in high school physics and while\nthe teacher was an ex-Navy fighter jock the book certainly wasn't\nproduced by the military.\n\n[Poundals were just too flinking small and made the math come out\nfunny; sort of the same reason proponents of SI give for using that.] \n\n-- \n\"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live\n in the real world.\" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden", "This discussion is better followed in talk.politics.space\nJoseph Cain\t\tcain@geomag.gly.fsu.edu \ncain@fsu.bitnet\t\tscri::cain\n(904) 644-4014\t\tFAX (904) 644-4214 or -0098\n", "In a debate about the student government here at our university, a\nquestion was raised by one student senator: \n\n\"Why should I represent people who didn't vote?\"\n\nand by implication, this raises a different question:\n\n\"Why should I represent people who didn't vote for me?\"\n\nI feel that there are many good reasons that anyone elected to public\noffice (in student government or any other government) should strive\nto represent ALL the people in their constituency (class of '95 or a\ngeographical area, or whatever). \n\nI would like some help from others in phrasing a reasonable argument\non this topic. Thanks.\n\nFollowups are directed to talk.politics.misc, but email is preferred.", "\nIt really doesn't strike me as very funny. It is rather indicative of what\na crisis their economy is in. I imagine they are in desparate need of\nmarkets to sustain industries and people which are nolonger under central\ncontrol of the government.\n--\nJim Rosenkranz\trosen@kranz.enet.dec.com", "this is a test\n \n", " Surely you are not equating David Koresh with Christianity? The two are\n not comparable.", "\n\n\n\nAnd as someone mentioned earlier, from the apocryphal Book of Enoch,\nsatan was apparently kicked out for three times asserting his own will,\n\"I will\". Hmmm...pro-choice looks kinda creepy here.", "\n\nWell, the best thing to do is to read the book \"Parallel Universes\"\nby Dr. Fred Wolf. \n\nIn essence, Dr. Wolf says that one interpretation of the sub-atomic\nparticle/wave duality is that what we perceive as a wave is actually\nan infinate number of parallel universes overlaid, and in each of\nthese universes there is a particle in a different location. When we\ndo something to make a particle \"appear,\" we are actually causing\nall the parallel universes to collapse into one. Apparently this is\none line of thought on the nature of QM, that is going through some\nof the scientific community.\n\nDr. Wolf (and many others) claim that somehow the collapse is caused\nby the mental effort of observing the particle. This implys that\nmind is more than merely a biological phenomenon. He then extrapolates\nthat if mind is an integral part of the universe, then perhaps consciousness\nis the element that gives order and form to the universe(s) it/themself(s).\n\nIt all gets rather interesting, but what I find facinating is that\nthis would explain the phenomenon of \"magick\" as practiced in my\nreligion. Dr. Wolf speculates that the ordering functionality of mind\ncould be caused by the selection of a future from an infinite number of\npossible futures; he says that this might be done by some sort of\ncommunication between ones current, and possible future selves. \nI have long speculated that if magick is not merely a form of self\ndelusion then perhaps it could be caused by some sort of a selection\nof one of many possible futures.\n\nI realize that this gets pretty bizarre, but it never hurts to keep \nan open mind and at least file it all away as another possibile \nexplaination of the world in which we find ourselves. After all, the\nmore we learn about the universe in which we live, the more we learn\nthat it is truly a very strange place.\n", "\nSorry. Wrong. This is how banks got started in the first place.\nSooner or later your father and his pals will lend money to someone\nwho eventually goes broke, and then they will realise that they\nhavn't been managing risk very well. Then they will ask themselves\nwhat it is that they need to quantify risk, and to persuade borrowers\nnot to take on greater loans than they can carry. And since they\ndon't all want the worry of doing the calculations and handling the\nmoney, some of them will specialise in that.\n\nThen they'll reinvent interest, but like good Muslims, they'll call\nit something else.\n\n\nRiiiight. That's why John Major opened a new government department\na couple of months ago to help to promote minority business. Because\nthey can do it all themselves by lending one another cups of sugar.", "For those of you interested, I just finished talking with a \nrepresentative of Senator Bob Krueger's reelection campaign about his \nposition on the RTKBA. Krueger was appointed by the Democratic Governor \nof Texas to complete Lloyd Bentsen's unexpired term.\n\nThe representative said that Senator Krueger did not have a position and \nwould only comment on specific legislation that was pending. No comment \nwas available on the various versions of the Brady Bill.", "\nThe test isn't whether GM knew--otherwise that would reward GM for its\nstupidity. The test is whether GM reasonably should have known of their\nexistence. It works both ways--if GM had won the trial, and the plaintiff\nturned up two witnesses who came forward after the first trial who should\nhave been located beforehand, too bad, so sad--no new trial.\n\nLike Tim said, you don't get a new civil trial because you screwed up \nthe first time around. Unlike the criminal justice system, repose is\nmuch more important in the civil justice system.", "I think that _The_Transcedental_Temptation_, by Paul Kurtz, has a good\nsection on the origins of Mormonism you might want to look at.", "PROGRAM EUROCRYPT'93, MAY 23-27, LOFTHUS, NORWAY\n------------------------------------------------\nGeneral chair : Kaare Presttun \n email: eurocrypt93@alcatel.no \n\nProgram chair : Tor Helleseth\n Department of Informatics \n University of Bergen\n N-5020 Bergen\n NORWAY\n email: torh@ii.uib.no\n\n=========================================================================\n\n MONDAY, May 24\n ---------------\n \n SESSION 1 : AUTHENTICATION\n --------------------------\n Chair: J. Seberry\n\n 9.00- 9.30 Welcome and opening remarks\n 9.30-10.00 On the Relation Between A-codes and Codes Correcting Independent \n Errors, T. Johansson, B. Smeets (Lund University, Sweden), \n and G. Kabatianskii (Institute for Problems of Information \n Transmission, Russia)\n10.00-10.20 Optimal Authentication Systems, R. Safavi-Naini and L. Tombak \n (University of Wollongong, Australia)\n\n10.20-10.50 Coffee or tea\n\n\n SESSION 2 : PUBLIC KEY\n ----------------------\n Chair: A. Odlyzko\n\n10.50-11.10 Factoring Integers using SIMD Sieves, B. Dixon (Princeton \n University, USA) and A.K. Lenstra (Bellcore, USA)\n11.10-11.30 A New Elliptic Curve Based Analogue of RSA, \n N. Demytko (Telecom Research Laboratories, Australia)\n11.30-11.50 Weaknesses of a Public-Key Cryptosystem Based on Factorization \n of Finite Groups, J. Stern (ENS, France)\n\n11.50-14.00 Lunch\n\n\n SESSION 3 : BLOCK CIPHERS\n -------------------------\n Chair: A. De Santis\n\n14.00-14.20 Differentially Uniform Mappings for Cryptography, \n K. Nyberg (Technical University of Vienna, Austria)\n14.20-14.40 On Permutations Against Differential Cryptanalysis, \n T. Beth and C. Ding (EISS, University of Karlsruhe, Germany)\n14.40-15.10 Two New Classes of Bent Functions, \n C. Carlet (INRIA, France)\n15.10-15.30 Boolean Functions Satisfying a Higher Order Strict Avalanche\n Condition, T.W. Cusick (SUNY, Buffalo, USA)\n\n15.30-16.00 Coffee or tea\n\n\n SESSION 4 : SECRET SHARING\n --------------------------\n Chair: Y. Desmedt\n\n16.00-16.30 Size of Shares and Probability of Cheating in Threshold Schemes, \n M. Carpentieri, A. De Santis and U. Vaccaro (University of \n Salerno, Italy)\n16.30-17.00 Nonperfect Secret Sharing Schemes and Matroids, K. Kurosawa,\n K. Okada, K. Sakano, W. Ogata and S. Tsujii (Tokyo Institute of\n Technology, Japan)\n \n\n TUESDAY, May 25\n ---------------\n\n SESSION 5 : STREAMCIPHERS I\n ---------------------------\n Chair: T. Helleseth \n\n 9.00-10.00 From the Memoars of a Norwegian Cryptolog, E. Selmer (University \n of Bergen, Norway) (Invited talk)\n10.00-10.20 On the Linear Complexity of Products of Shift-Register Sequences, \n R. Gottfert and H. Niderreiter (Austrian Academy of Sciences, \n Vienna, Austria)\n\n10.20-10.50 Coffee or tea\n\n\n SESSION 6 : STREAMCIPHERS II\n ----------------------------\n Chair: D. Gollman\n\n10.50-11.20 Resynchronisation Weaknesses in Synchronous Stream Ciphers,\n J. Daemen, R. Govaerts and J. Vandewalle (ESAT, KU Leuven, \n Belgium)\n11.20-11.40 Blind Synchronization of m-Sequences with Even Span,\n R. Games and J.J. Rushanan (MITRE, USA)\n11.40-12.10 On Constructions and Nonlinearity of Correlation Immune Functions,\n J. Seberry, X. Zhang and Y. Zheng (University of Wollongong, \n Australia)\n\n12.10-14.00 Lunch\n\n\n SESSION 7 : DIGITAL SIGNATURES\n ------------------------------\n Chair: C. Schnorr\n\n14.00-14.30 Practical and Provable Secure Release of a Secret and Exchange of\n Signatures, I.B. Damgard (Aarhus University, Denmark)\n14.30-14.50 Subliminal Communication is Easy Using the DSA, \n G.J. Simmons\n14.50-15.10 Can OSS be Repaired, D. Naccache (Gemplus, France)\n\n15.10-15.40 Coffee or tea\n\n\n SESSION 8 : PROTOCOLS I\n -----------------------\n Chair: K. Kurosawa\n\n15.40-16.00 Limitations of Logical Analysis of Cryptographic Protocols, \n C. Boyd and W. Mao (University of Manchester, United Kingdom)\n16.00-16.30 Practical Anonymous and Secure Voting Scheme, K. Itoh, C. Park \n and K. Kurosawa (Tokyo Institute of Technology, Japan)\n16.30-16.50 Untransferable Rights in a Client-Independent Server Environment,\n J. Domingo-Ferrer (University of Barcelona, Spain)\n16.50-17.20 Interactive Hashing Simplifies Zero-Knowledge Protocol Design,\n R. Ostrovsky (UC Berkeley, USA), R. Venkatesan (Bellcore, USA) and\n M. Yung (IBM T. Watson, USA)\n\n RUMP SESSION\n -------------\n Chair: I. Ingemarsson \n\n20.00-24.00 Accepted paper: \n Security in Digital Mobile Communication Systems,\n C. Park, K. Kurosawa, T. Okamoto and S. Tsujii (Tokyo\n Institute of Technology, Japan)\n\n\n WEDNESDAY, May 26\n -----------------\n\n SESSION 9 : HASH FUNCTIONS\n ---------------------------\n Chair: B. Preneel\n\n 9.00- 9.20 One-Way Accumulators: A Decentralized Alternative to Digital\n Signatures, J. Benaloh and M. de Mare (Clarkson University, USA)\n 9.20- 9.40 Some Attacks on the ARL Hash Function, I.B. Damgard and \n L.R. Knudsen (Aarhus University, Denmark)\n 9.40-10.10 Collisions for the Compression Function of MD5, B. den Boer and\n A. Bosselaers (ESAT, KU Leuven, Belgium)\n10.10-10.30 How to Find and Avoid Collisions for the Knapsack Hash Function, \n J. Patarin (Bull CP8, France)\n \n10.30-11.00 Coffee or tea\n\n\n SESSION 10: PAYMENT SYSTEMS\n ---------------------------\n Chair: I.B. Damgard\n\n11.00-11.20 Single Term Off-Line Coins, N.T. Ferguson (CWI Amsterdam,\n The Netherlands)\n11.20-11.40 Improved Privacy in Wallets with Observers,\n R.J.F. Cramer (CWI Amsterdam, The Netherlands) and \n T.P. Pedersen (Aarhus University, Denmark)\n11.40-12.10 How to Prevent the Mafia Fraud Using Distance-Bounding Protocols,\n S. Brands and D. Chaum (CWI Amsterdam, The Netherlands)\n \n12.10-14.00 Lunch\n \n\n SESSION 11: CRYPTANALYSIS\n --------------------------\n Chair: G.J. Simmons\n\n14.00-14.20 On the Distribution of Characteristics in Bijective Mappings,\n L. O'Connor (University of Waterloo, Canada)\n14.20-14.40 On the Security of the IDEA Block Cipher, \n W. Meier (HTL, Switzerland)\n14.40-15.10 Linear Cryptanalysis Method for DES Cipher,\n M. Matsui (Mitsubishi, Japan)\n15.10-15.40 New Types of Cryptanalytic Attacks Using Related Keys, \n E. Biham (Technion, Israel)\n\n15.40-16.10 Coffee or tea\n \n\n SESSION 12 : PROTOCOLS II\n -------------------------\n Chair: P. Landrock\n\n16.10-16.40 Reconciliation on a Secret Key Through Public Discussion,\n G. Brassard and L. Salvail (University of Montreal, Canada)\n16.40-17.10 Global, Unpredictable Bit Generation Without Broadcast,\n D. Beaver and N. So (Penn State University, USA)\n17.10-17.40 IACR Business meeting\n\n==========================================================================\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n", "\n\n Some women might say, \"Death\". How about \"life, with no hope of parole\"?", "\nLike, there's a FAQ for this?\n", "Sorry for bothering with a request almost irrelevant to anyone except for me:\nCould some kind soul provide me with the phone number of\nwycliffe center\nhorsley green high wycomb\nbucks hp 14 3 xl\nI want to surprise a friend of mine staying there, but I don't have the number.\n\nthanks a lot in advance\n\nGerhard", "\n\nYou misrepresent me, Selim. The hard evidence for my statements about\nhis lack of objectivity are presented quite clearly in the book\n\"Orientalism\" by Edward Said. Edward Said, by the way, is a Christian,\nnot a Muslim.\n\n\nRegarding Bernard Lewis:\n\nHim being a Zionist gives him a political motive for his\ngiving misrepresentations and half-truths about Islam.\n\nRead \"Orientalism\" by Edward Said -- see the evidence for yourself.\n\nIn fact, I may post some of it here (if it isn't too long).\n\n\nI haven't read Lewis's article, so I can't comment directly upon it, and\nhave only spoken about his writings _in general_ so far, that his\npolitical motives make him a biased writer on Islam. His anti-Islamic\npolemics, as I understand it, are often quite subtle and are often based\non telling half-truths.\n\nAgain, read \"Orientalism\" by Edward Said. I am _not_ asking you to take\nwhat I say on trust, in fact I am urging you not to do so but to get\nthis book (it is a well-known book) and check the evidence out for\n_yourself_.\n\n\nIf slavery is _in reality_ (as opposed to in the practice of some\nMuslims) opposed by Islam, then using slaves for sexual\npurposes is necessarily opposed too.\n\n\nI understand your point of view, Selim -- I think, rather, it is _us_\nwho are not getting through to _you_.\n\nSome of the points you repeat above I have already answered before.\n\nRegarding women, I have made posting after posting on this subject,\nshowing that Islam is not anti-woman, etc. However, have you been\ncompletely ignoring my postings or just missing them? I just reposted a\nvery good one, under the title \"Islam and Women\", reposted from\nsoc.religion.islam. If this has already disappeared from your site,\nthen please email me telling me so and I will email you a copy of this\nexcellent article. \n\nIMHO, your understanding of the issue of women in Islam is sadly deficient.\n\nRegarding slaves, _my_ posting on slavery -- the second one I made,\nwhich is a repost of an article I wrote early last year -- is based\ncompletely on the Qur'an and contains numerous Qur'anic verses and\nhadiths to support its point of view.\n\nOur approaches are different -- you are arguing from a historical\nstandpoint and I am arguing directly from the teachings of the Qur'an\nand hadiths. Now, just because people say they are Muslims and perform\na particular action, does that automatically mean that their action is\npart of Islam, even if it is opposed by the Qur'an and Sunnah? No! Of\ncourse not.\n\nLet me give you a concrete example, which might help clarify this for\nyou. The Qur'an prohibits drinking. Now, if a person says \"I am a\nMuslim\" and then proceeds to drink a bottle of beer, does this now mean\nthat Islam teaches that people should drink beer? Of course not, and\nonly an idiot would think so.\n\nDo you see my point?\n\n\nYou are judging Islam here on capitalist terms. Capitalism is an\nideology based largely on the assumption that people want to maximise\ntheir wealth -- this assumption is in opposition to Islamic teachings.\nTo say Islam is bad because it is not capitalist is pretty unthinking --\nIslam does not pretend to be capitalist and does not try to be\ncapitalist. (This does not mean that Islam does not support a\nfree-market -- for it does in general -- but there are other parts of \ncapitalism which are opposed to Islam as I understand it.)\n\n\nOne can postulate numerous reasons for this. Your theory is that it is\nbecause Islam is not secularist and capitalist, etc. etc.\n\nSelim, I will give you a clear historical example to show you the\nfallacy of your views if you think (as you obviously do) that\nIslam => lack of education and power.\n\nFor a large part of history, the Islamic world was very powerful. For a\nsignificant section of history, the Islamic world was the foremost in\nthe sciences. So to say that Islam is, for example, anti-education is\ncompletely absurd. You try to blame this situation on Islam -- history\nshows that your conclusion is false and that, instead, there must be\nother reasons for this situation.\n\n\nWell, Selim, your viewpoint on women in Islam makes me question the extent\nof your knowledge of Islam. I really think you are not\nknowledgeable enough to be able to judge whether the Muslims are\nfollowing the Qur'an or not.\n\n\nThe Islamic world was at the forefront of the world in science at one\nstage -- yet somehow, in your theory, it is by \"following the Qur'an\"\nthat Muslims are backwards in education. Selim, it is _your_ thesis\nthat is anti-historical, for you conveniently overlook this historical\nfact which contradicts your theory. \n\n\nYou have certainly not shown this; you have merely stated it.\nSo far, it seems to me that your view on Islam being anti-education is\nquite contrary to history. That you are so convinced of your views\nmakes me wonder just how objectively you are trying to look at all of\nthis.\n\n\nI think, Selim, you should consider taking your own advice.\n\n\nHere too.\n\n\nSelim, you have such conviction of your viewpoint, yet you demonstrate\nignorance, not only of Islam but also of Islamic history (particularly\nwith respect to Muslims being leaders of science till about 1400 or so I\nthink). Yet you say that your viewpoint is based on history!\n\nSelim, if I remember right, you say in one of your earlier posts that\nyou are an apostate from Islam. I think you should slow down and start\nthinking clearly about the issues, and start _reading_ some of our\npostings about Islam rather than ignoring them as you so obviously\nhave.", "Since I have seen various different numbers to dial to get your number read\nback to you by the phone company, could someonepost a list or point me to a\nbook where I could get a list of all the different numbers for the U.S.?\nFailing that, could someone tell me Ohio's?\n\n", "\nUnlikely. Ammunition is not as dangerous when simply burned as it\nis when fired from a gun. The brass case is not capable of holding\nthe pressure generated by burning powder, and will (unless supported\nby the walls of a gun barrel or chamber) simply split open. While\nthis may cause small pieces of brass to fly around, it will not\npropel the bullet with any significant velocity.\n\nIn fact, it was not uncommon in years past to dispose of old loaded\ncartridges by burning them. As long as you were not close enough\nto take a piece of flying brass in the eye, you were reasonably safe.\n\nThus, the detonation of loaded magazines or loose rounds might cause\nslight injury but would be unlikely to cause fatal bullet wounds.", "-> > This mention of a well regulated militia is what confuses me. According\n-> > to the Federalist Paper's, a well regulated militia has a well defined \n-> > structure and follows nationally uniform regulations.\n-> \n-> Perhaps you should actually READ the Federalist Papers!!\n\nPerhaps you should, reread Federal 29 which deals exclusively with the\n\"well regulated malitia.\" Here is what is says about its character:\n\n\t To oblige the great body of the yeomanry, and of the other classes\n\t of the citizens, to be under arms for the purpose of going through\n\t military exercises and evolutions, as often as might be necessary to\n\t acquire the degree of perfection which would entitle them to the\n\t character of a well-regulated militia, \n\nIt also talks about the \"well regulated militia\" having a nationally\nuniform in structure and disipline. \n\nI will note you did quote the end of this particular paragraph which states:\n\n \tLittle more can reasonably be aimed at, with\n\trespect to the people at large, than to have them properly armed\n\tand equipped; and in order to see that this be not neglected, it\n\twill be necessary to assemble them once or twice in the course of\n\ta year.\n\nBut, do you knew how much organization is required to training a large\ngroup of poeple twice a year. Just to try to get the same people\nevery year, provide a basic training to new people so they can\nbe integrated into the force, and find a suitable location, it \nrequires a continually standing committee of organizers. \n\nSince a well regulate militia is nationally uniform in structure and\ndisipline, and meet once or twice a year to train, how can you claim\na \"well regulated militia\" is not well organized. But I will concide \na \"well organized militia\" is not necessarily a \"well regulated militia.\" \n\nSeveral people have stated that the \"well organized militia\" is\nwhat is defined under 10 USC 311, which states\n\n\tThe militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied \n\tmales at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in \n\tsection 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, \n\tor who have made a declaration of intention to become, \n\tcitizens of the United States and of female citizents of \n\tthe United States who are commissioned officers of the \n\tNational Guard.\n\nThis deos define the militia, but were is the adjective \"well regulated.\"\n10 USC 311 does not define a \"well regualed militia\" in any way, shape, \nor form. It only defines who can become part of a well regulated militia\nThe Federalist Papers CLEARLY define the \"well regualed militia\" as a\nproper SUBSET of the militia. In the same paragraph quoted above, it\ntalk above \"disciplining all the militia of the United States\" so they\nfit the \"character of a well-regulated militia.\" This is what the\nparagraph states about the associated costs:\n\n\tIt would form an annual deduction from the productive labor \n\tof the country, to an amount which, calculating upon the \n\tpresent numbers of the people, would not fall far short \n\tof the whole expense of the civil establishments of all \n\tthe States. To attempt a thing which would abridge the \n\tmass of labor and industry to so considerable an extent,\n\twould be unwise: and the experiment, if made, could not \n\tsucceed, because it would not long be endured.\n\n\nAnother quote provide by Charles Scripter is:\nJames Madison, Federalist Paper 41 (regarding the \"General Welfare\" clause): \n\t\"Nothing is more natural nor common than first\n\tto use a general phrase, and then to explain and qualify it by a\n\trecital of particulars.\"\n\nSo the phrase \"the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall \nnot be infringed\" must either qualify or explain the phrase \"a well \nregulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state.\" \nThe definition of \"explain\" as stated in \"The American Hertitage\nDictionary of the Enlish Language\" The New College Edition, 1982 is:\n\t1) To make plain or comprehensible; remove obscruity from;\n\t elucidate: \"It was the economists who undertook to explain \n\t this puzzle\"\n\t2) To define; explicate; expound: He explained his plan.\n\t3) To offer reasons for or a cause of; an answer for' justify:\n\t explain an error\nThe second phrase clearly does not \"explain\" the first, therefore\nthe second phrase must \"qualify\" the first. The definition given\nfor \"qualify\" is:\n\t1) To describe by enumerating the characteristics or qualities\n\t of; characterize.\n\t2) To make competent or suitable for office, position, or \n\t task.\n\t3) To give legal power to; make legally capable.\n\t4) To modify, limit, or restrict, as giving exceptions.\n\t5) To make less harsh or severe; moderate\n\t6) Grammar: To modify the meaning of (a word or phrase)\nSince \"the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be\ninfringed\" does not describe, modify or make less harsh anything and\nit has nothing to do with grammar or some sort of position or task.\nBy process of elimination it must fall into definition #3. And since\n#3 deals with legal power, the same thing the Constitution does, it\nmust be the correct definition in this case. Therefore, \"the right \nof the people to keep and bear Arms\" gives legal power to the \"well \nregualated militia\" and this legal power \"shall not be infringed\". \n\nI thank you very much Mr Scripter, you have provided me with more \nevidence that the Second Amendment only concerns itseft with the \npeople's right to form well regulate militia, and says very little \nabout the right of an untrained person to \"keep and bear\" a .50 caliber\nmachine gun. And since I, totally untrained in the use of any firearm\n(something I personly have meant to correct by going to a NRA gun\nsafety course and joining a gun club), cannot legally buy such a machine\ngun, I conclude the courts and democraticly elected congress agree with\nme.\n\n-> So now we know which category Mr. Rutledge is in; He means to destroy\n-> our Liberties and Rights.\n\nI mean \"to destory our Liberties and Rights.\" Is that why a participate\nin the discussion of exactly what \"our Libertues and Rights\" are? I \nforce my version of \"our Liberties and Rights\" by begining statements\nof what \"our Liberties and Rights\" with \"All that the Second Amendment \nclearly states to me.\" Using expressions, such as \"states to me,\" \nclearly mean I intend to force my views on others? I don't think so.\n\nSo in effort not to force my views and not \"to destory our Liberties and\nRights,\" I state that nothing I have written, or will write, in\nthe matter of \"Liberties and Rights\" is the final word. For I am only\none person among many and the final word on \"Liberties and Rights\" cleary\nand irrevocably belongs to the many.", "I have a certificate for one round-trip airfares to either Acapulco or\nCancun, Mexico.\nExpiration date is one year from now.\n\nThe maximum retail value, depending on time and location, is estimated at\n$1100, including accommodation for 3 days and 2 nights at a leading\nhotel. I am asking for $1000 or best offer.\n\nFor more information, call Goh at\n\n(415) 497-0663\n\nor send mail to\n\nkmgoh@leland.stanford.edu", "It's only test message.\n\n", "I apologize for the long delay in getting a response to this posted.\nI've been working reduced hours the past couple of weeks because I had\na son born (the day after Umar's article was posted, btw). I did\nrespond within a couple of days, but it turns out that a a\ncoincidental news software rearrangement caused postings from this\nsite to silently disappear rather than going out into the world. This\nis a revision of that original response.\n\n\n[this was in response to the claim that \"Rushdie made false statements\nabout the life of Mohammed\", with the disclaimer \"(fiction, I know,\nbut where is the line between fact and fiction?) - I stand by this\ndistinction between fiction and \"false statements\"]\n\n\nI had not seen that claim, or I might have been less sweeping. You\nhave made what I consider factual misstatements about events in the\nbook, which I have raised in the past, in the \"ISLAM: a clearer view\"\nthread as well as the root of the \"Yet more Rushdie [Re: ISLAMIC LAW]\"\nthread. My statement was not that you had not read the book, but that\nyou had not convinced me that you [inter alia] had. As I said before,\nif you want to defend your position, then produce evidence, and\nrespond to the evidence I have posted; so far you have not. Of\ncourse, my statement was not directly aimed at you, but broadly at a\nnumber of Muslim posters who have repeated propaganda about the book,\nindicating that they haven't read it, and narrowly at Gregg Jaeger,\nwho subsequently admitted that he hadn't in fact read the book,\nvindicating my skepticism in at least that one case.\n\nSo far, the only things I have to go on regarding your own case are a)\nthe statements you made concerning the book in the \"a clearer view\"\nposting, which I have challenged (not interpretation, but statements\nof fact, for instance \"Rushdie depicts the women of the most\nrespected family in all of Islam as whores\"), and b) your claim (which\nI had not seen before this) that you have indeed read it cover to\ncover. I am willing to try to resolve this down to a disagreement on\ncritical interpretation, but you'll have to support your end, by\nresponding to my criticism. I have no doubt as to the ability of a\nparticular Muslim to go through this book with a highlighter finding\npassages to take personal offense at, but you have upheld the view\nthat \"TSV *is* intended as an attack on Islam and upon Muslims\". This\nview must be defended by more than mere assertion, if you want anyone\nto take it seriously.\n\n\nAnd I appreciate it, but welcome to the club. I am defending my\nhonest opinion that this book should not be construed as a calculated\n(or otherwise) insulting attack on Islam, and the parallel opinion\nthat most of the criticism of the book I have seen is baseless\npropaganda. I have supported my statements and critical\ninterpretationa with in-context quotes from the book and Rushdie's\nessays, which is more than my correspondents have done. Of course,\nyou are more than welcome to do so.", "\n Do I smell .sig material here?\n\n\n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ \n\nBob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM \n\nThey said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,\nand sank Manhattan out at sea.", "\n\n\nSo why don't ypu sue him.\n\n----", "\nAnd the religious right worships engines, smokestacks, landfills,\nand hates people.\n\nWhat does this name-calling have to do with anything you are claiming about\nthe truth of environmental disaster? Nothing that I have read in this\nthread, nor heard from anyone I have talked to, would suggest to me that \npeople fit the definition you give of the religious left. Come off it, Phil.\nA prime motivation for protecting our environment is so that we, \npeople, can continue to live in it healthily. We just disagree on what\nis necessary to maintaining a healthy environment FOR PEOPLE.\n\n\n [Russ's response deleted to save space]\n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nWhat!? They have already repaired that old hulk!!!? WOW!!! ;-)\n\nI suppose you *mean* the Alaskan shores that were devastated by the\nValdez accident? I haven't seen the articles. What do they say exactly?\nHas [mostly] all the ocean and shore life returned? The sands are [mostly]\nas clean as they were before? The microbial samples are [mostly] back to \na normal balance? The fish and fowl populations have [mostly] returned? What?\n\n[...]\n\nNot a problem? Would you move to Three Mile Island? I would imagine \nthere is some cheap property available! \n\nThe naturally occurring catastrophic events [disasters] that destroy \nproperty (ie: hurricanes, tornados, earthquakes) do not usually leave \ntoxic wastes that prevent people from re-building their lives there. \nThe man-made disasters (oil spills, toxic dumping, radioactive waste \ndispersions) cause death and make an area unliveable far beyond the \ninitial event.\n\n\n", "SOMEONE PLEASE BUY THESE BOOKS!!!!! I AM NOT ASKING MUCH!!!!!!\n\nJUST MAKE ME AN OFFER AND I WILL PROBABLY TAKE IT!!!!!\n\n\n* Writing good software in Fortran, Graham Smith. \n\n* The Holt Handbook by Kirszner & Mandell (copyright 1986) 720+ page writing guide. \n\n* General Chemistry Principles & Modern Applications, R. Petrucci, fourth\n edition. Big Book! Very good condition!\n\n* Solutions manual for Chemistry book. Paperback.\n\n* Study guide for Chemistry book. Paperback.\n\n\nSend me your offers via email at 02106@chopin.udel.edu\n\n", "[ in response to a question about why Jesus' parents would be sanctified \nbeyond normal humanity]\n\nI would think that simply being pregnant with the incarnation of the \nAlmighty God would be enough to make Mary blessed among all women, whether\nor not she had special spiritual attributes. I find that the more special\nMary needs to be, the less human Jesus gets.", "\n\nI have to agree with you... the police may have carried it a bit too far\nbut Rodney King was no angel either. And I don't think ANY guilty\nverdicts should have been returned. I'm sure you know why they handed\ndown guilty verdicts on two of the officers. It's quite simple really,\nit was a compromise to avoid rioting in the places where minorities\nthink it's right to riot. I hate to say this, but I would have liked to\nsee them riot with everyone prepared. It would be open season if your\nskin was even slightly brown.\n\nHey, my motto is, you don't fuck with me or my stuff and you don't get\nkilled. It's just that simple.\n\nTony\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\n-- Anthony S. Pelliccio, kd1nr/ae // Yes, you read it right, the //\n-- system @ garlic.sbs.com // man who went from No-Code //\n-----------------------------------// (Thhhppptt!) to Extra in //\n-- Flame Retardent Sysadmin // exactly one year! //\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n-- This is a calm .sig! --", "\n\nWell yes and no. The Federalist papers are propaganda and it is therefore\ndifficult to determine precisely what Maddison etc were up to from them. They\ncertainly emphasised a limited role for the federal government but this\nwas not necessarily their true position.\n\n\nThe Senate was less powerful than the House of Lords in the period in question.\nThe stripping of the powers of the House of Lords did not occur until 1914\nand David Llloyd George's budget. Even despite this the House of Lords has\nconsiderable power even today and is far from a rubber stamping body. \n\n\n\nThe system is meant to be slow to react, the problem is that it ended up\na bit too slow.\n\n\n\nThe Presiden't veto was meant to be entirely separate. Until Bush abused it\nin a quite extraordinary manner it was used more in accord with the intent\nof being a check on unreasonable legislation. The veto was clearly regarded \nas a completely last gasp measure its use was meant to be restricted to\npreventing the legislature interfering with the actions of the executive.", "Fact: Both Janet Reno and Bill Clinton have admitted responsibility,\n even grief, over the deaths in Waco.\n\nFact: Regardless of who started the fire, there are more than enough\n things on tape to make a civil rights case against these two.\n Cruel and unusual punishment (dying tortured rabbits on tape?)\n come to mind. \n\nFact: It is a federal felony to infringe civil rights under color of\n law; where death is involved, this offense carries a penalty\n of life in prison.\n\nFact: Impeachment is allowable for \"high crimes and misdemeanors.\"\n Anything that's a federal felony should qualify.\n\nConclusion: We have NO CHOICE, if we are an honest people, but to \n impeach Mr. Clinton, and remove Reno from office.", "\nI don't want him nuked, I want him to be honest. The junk mail has\nbeen much more interesting than the promised catalog. If I'd known\nwhat I was going to get, I wouldn't have hesitated. I wouldn't be\nsurprised if there were other folks who looked at the ad and said\n\"nope\" but who would be very interested in the junk mail that results.\nSimilarly, there are people who wanted the advertised catalog who\naren't happy with the junk they got instead.\n\nThe folks buying the mailing lists would prefer an honest ad, and\nso would the people reading it.\n\n-andy", "Hi,\n I was reading through \"The Spaceflight Handbook\" and somewhere in\nthere the author discusses solar sails and the forces acting on them\nwhen and if they try to gain an initial acceleration by passing close to\nthe sun in a hyperbolic orbit. The magnitude of such accelerations he\nestimated to be on the order of 700g. He also says that this is may not\nbe a big problem for manned craft because humans (and this was published\nin 1986) have already withstood accelerations of 45g. All this is very\nlong-winded but here's my question finally - Are 45g accelerations in\nfact humanly tolerable? - with the aid of any mechanical devices of\ncourse. If these are possible, what is used to absorb the acceleration?\nCan this be extended to larger accelerations?", "\nThis is too often true. Many people try to place this as a \"higher\"\nsin. However...\n\n\nA big part of the problem is that many of the homosexuals and people\nadvocating acceptance of homosexuality in churches do not consider\n(active) homosexuality a sin. I don't often see the attitude of\n\"forgive me and I will try to change\". Instead I see \"there's nothing\nwrong with my life and I can be a good Christian, so it must be you who\nhave an illness because you don't accept me\". Christians can and will\naccept homosexuals, just as they will accept *any* sinner.\n\nSure, it may be natural to some people to be homosexual - but it\nis also perfectly natural for everyone to sin! I was born with\na desire to sin, but I work to prevent myself from sinning. It's\nmuch less common now, but I *still* have urges to lash out in\nanger. There also may not be a sudden disappearance of sinful\ndesires (or ever!), so it is sad to see people leave the church\nwhen they are discouraged that they are still homosexual after\nseveral years.\n", "Here is a press release from the U.S. Department of Energy.\n\n Energy Secretary Hails President's Plan For Alternative Fuel\nVehicles\n To: National Desk, Environment and Energy Reporters\n Contact: Larry Hart of the U.S. Department of Energy, 202-586-5806\n\n WASHINGTON, April 21 -- Secretary of Energy\nHazel R. O'Leary today said President Clinton's Executive Order on\nAlternative Fuels will make the federal government a \"driving force\nbehind efforts to increase the availability of both alternative\nfuel vehicles and fuel supplies.\"\n President Clinton signed the order today, which calls for\nfederal purchases of alternative fuel vehicles in numbers over the\nnext three years at least 50 percent higher than those called for\nin the Energy Policy Act of 1992.\n President Clinton also announced that Texas Land Commissioner\nGary Mauro will head up the Federal Fleet Conversion Task Force to\nadvise O'Leary on implementation of the Executive Order.\n \"I am delighted that I will be working with Gary Mauro to make\nthis happen,\" O'Leary said. \"As Land Commissioner, Gary Mauro has\nhelped make Texas a national leader in converting the state fleet\nto alternative fuels, and has been a tireless proponent of natural\ngas vehicles in speeches across the country.\"\n The task force is to issue a report within 90 days recommending\na plan and schedule of implementation.\n \"The Department of Energy and all of us in government must lead\nby example if the option of alternative fuels is going to become a\npractical, affordable choice for fleet owners across the country,\"\nO'Leary said. \"Increased use of domestically-produced alternative\nfuels means reducing pollution while creating jobs. We believe\nthat energy efficiency, protecting the environment, and a healthy\neconomy are complimentary goals.\"\n O'Leary said that plans call for the Department of Energy to\ncoordinate the agencies' five-year purchase plans, help with\nfunding for extra purchase or conversion costs, and work with GSA\nto encourage development of the fuel infrastructure needed to make\nfleet conversions practical.\n Under the order, the Department of Energy will also be working\nwith states, local governments and industry to coordinate vehicle\npurchases and encourage manufacturers and fuel suppliers to make\nalternative fuel vehicles and alternative fuels more widely\navailable.\n -30-", "Top Ten Ways Slick Willie Could Improve His Standing With Americans\n\n\n\n10. Institute a national sales tax to pay for the socialization of\n America's health care resources.\n\n9. Declare war on Serbia. Reenact the draft.\n\n8. Stimulate the economy with massive income transfers to Democtratic\n constituencies.\n\n7. Appoint an unrepetent socialist like Mario Cuomo to the Suprmeme Court.\n\n6. Focus like a laser beam on gays in the military.\n\n5. Put Hillary in charge of the Ministry of Truth and move Stephanopoulos\n over to socialzed health care.\n\n4. Balance the budget through confiscatory taxation.\n\n3. Remind everyone, again, how despite the Democrats holding the\n Presidency, the majority of seats in the House, and in the Senate,\n the Republicans have still managed to block his tax-and-spend programs.\n\n2. Go back to England and get a refresher course in European Socialism.\n\n1. Resign, now!\n\n\n\nCopyright (c) Edward A. Ipser, Jr., 1993", "\n\nYes, it does.\nAll the equipment has to have that Telekom approval number to be\nlegal.\nWhat has changed is that you can buy the equipment somewhere else.\nI'm pretty sure the same holds true in Sweden (at least when I read\nsome information on it about tweo years ago).\nAnd BTW I do know that most of the lines in Sweden can handle tone-dialing,\njust don't be sure that all can.\n", "\nReally? Why are so you worried about high school kids \"getting their kicks\"\nwith scanners, as compared to what the feds can do, and have done, to their\ntargets?\n\n\"Better than the status quo\" isn't good enough, I'd say. The same \ntechnology could be implemented WITHOUT a back door open to the state.\n\nWe all know about power and corruption. But we all know that abuse is\nsomething that only happens to the other guy.\n\n\n\n-- \n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nJohn Hesse | A man, \njhesse@netcom.com | a plan, \nMoss Beach, Calif | a canal, Bob.", ":\n:\n:\t1. Make a new Newsgroup called talk.politics.guns.PARANOID or \n:\ttalk.politics.guns.THEY'R.HERE.TO.TAKE.ME.AWAY\n:\n:\t2. Move all postings about waco and burn to (guess where)..\n:\n:\t3. Stop posting #### on this newsgroup\n;\n:\tWe are all SO glad you're trying to save us from the evil \n:\tgoverment, but would you mail this #### in regular mail to\n:\tlet's say 1000 people ????\n:\t\n:\n: Thomas Parsli\nAnd everybody who talked about the evil arising in Europe was labeled \nreactionary in the late 1930's... after all, we could negotiate with Hitler and\ntrust him to keep his end of the bargain... at least that's what Stalin and\nChamberlin thought... I guess they forgot to teach you about your country being\noverrun by the Germans in WWII, 'eh Thomas? And I'm sorry you consider outrage\nat government excesses to be ####... Everytime the Israelis conduct a mass \noperation against a terrorist group that is actively killing their citizens and\nsoldiers, the world gets indignant, but it's ok for the US to assault it's own\ncitizens who were a religous minority and accused of sexual deviation and \nhoarding weapons... I find it real ironic this happened the same day Al Gore\narrived in Poland to recognize the sacrifices made in the Warsaw Ghetto where\nthe same 'justifications' were raised for an armed assault by black-clad troops\nwith armor support... \n", "SOMEONE PLEASE BUY THESE BOOKS!!!!! I AM NOT ASKING MUCH!!!!!!\n\nJUST MAKE ME AN OFFER AND I WILL PROBABLY TAKE IT!!!!!\n\n\n* Writing good software in Fortran, Graham Smith. \n\n* The Holt Handbook by Kirszner & Mandell (copyright 1986) 720+ page writing guide. \n\n* General Chemistry Principles & Modern Applications, R. Petrucci, fourth\n edition. Big Book! Very good condition!\n\n* Solutions manual for Chemistry book. Paperback.\n\n* Study guide for Chemistry book. Paperback.\n\n\nSend me your offers via email at 02106@chopin.udel.edu\n\n", "SOMEONE PLEASE BUY THESE BOOKS!!!!! I AM NOT ASKING MUCH!!!!!!\n\nJUST MAKE ME AN OFFER AND I WILL PROBABLY TAKE IT!!!!!\n\n* Calculus w/ Analytic Geometry by Authur B. Simon (copyright date 1982), below avg condition but still readable! \n\n* Writing good software in Fortran, Graham Smith. \n\n* The Holt Handbook by Kirszner & Mandell (copyright 1986) 720+ page writing guide. \n\n* Algebra & Trigonometry, A problem Solving Approach, 3rd edition by W. Flemming and D. Varberg. Very good condition.\n\n* General Chemistry Principles & Modern Applications, R. Petrucci, fourth\n edition. Big Book! Very good condition!\n\n* Solutions manual for Chemistry book. Paperback.\n\n* Study guide for Chemistry book. Paperback.\n\n\nSend me your offers via email at 02106@chopin.udel.edu\n\n", ": |> Let me begin by saying I think this is the world's first religion to use\n: |> the net as its major recruitment medium. Therefore, even if this\n: |> religion does not take off, its founding members will be very important\n: |> historically as this method of soliciting membership will eventually become \n: |> common.\n: \n: So what is Kibology? Chopped liver?\n\nKibo Himself summed it up by saying \"Kibology is not just a religion, it is\nalso a candy mint ... and a floor wax.\" I personally think that it is more\nlike Spam Clear.\n: \n: You really should check out alt.religion.kibology, as Kibo's religion is \n: slightly older than yours, makes more sense and has more slack.\n\nYes! Why send money to B0B when Kibo will pay you to worship him. (Funny, he\ndoesn't seem to have paid me...)\n\n: ------------------------------------------------------------------\n: __ Live from Capitaland, heart of the Empire State...\n: ___/ | Jim Kasprzak, computer operator @ RPI, Troy, NY, USA\n: /____ *| \"I understand the causes, and sympathize your motivations,\n: \\_| But all the details of this war are just your self-infatuation.\" \n: ==== e-mail: kasprj@rpi.edu or kasprzak@mts.rpi.edu ", "\nAssuming you are refering to standard POTS or ground start lines:\n\nIf you are looking at loop start lines under idle conditions, the RING\nconductor is the one with approximately -48 to -52 vDC with respect to\nground while the TIP conductor is at or very near ground potential (be sure\nto reference the telco ground when taking your measurements). \n\nIf you are dealing with ground start lines under idle conditions, the RING\nconductor will be the one with approximately -48 to -52 vDC while the TIP\nconductor would look like it's floating (you may see some potential from\nline capacitance it will bleed off over time). Remember to use the telco\nground as your reference when making measurements. \n\n", "\n\nNot to muslims :)\n\n\n\nThat could be arguable.. (for bandwith and flames sake, I wont say more)\n\n\n\nIt is a civil war, but the serbian generals who allow rape are not fighting\nfair. Yah I know .. war is hell .. those serbian generals are propretuating\nboth..\n\nLines and bordres .. money .. power .. fear .. \n\nLet's change canadian bordres while we are at it :) \nI see this as civvil war..\n(sp borders)\n\n\n\nPossibly.. I do agree that it is a civil war, which makes the donation of\nhumanitarian aid even more complex... I mean serbs are bleeding too and I heardthat a few croats had raped serbian women.. (unconfurmable at this point)\n\n\n\n\n\n", "\n\n\n\nOf course, if you're planning to pull a Rushdie then declaring one's\nleaving the religion is little to be concerned about compared to one's\nother plans.\n\n\nIn Rushdie's case, the one under discussion, one can. It is tragic that\nin _some_ \"Islamic\" countries this is so. There are, however, Islamic\ncountries (whose constitutions contains statements that Islamic law is\nto be incorporated), e.g. Kuwait, where one can freely make such\nstatements without fear.\n\n\n\nThis story has become tiresome. The conditions are clear. If you care to\nmake your point clear then make a chronology and show that he had made\npublic statements about leaving Islam prior to his writing of _TSV_. If\nhe did make such statements then he should have made _that_ clear rather\nthan trying to rejoin Islam or go on talking about his personal\nfeelings.\n\n", "It looks like Ben Baz's mind and heart are also blind, not only his eyes.\nI used to respect him, today I lost the minimal amount of respect that\nI struggled to keep for him.\nTo All Muslim netters: This is the same guy who gave a \"Fatwah\" that\nSaudi Arabia can be used by the United Ststes to attack Iraq . That\nFatwah is as legitimate as this one. With that kind of \"Clergy\", it might\nbe an Islamic duty to separate religion and politics, if religion\nmeans \"official Clergy\".\n", "Here is a press release from the Reserve Officers Association.\n\n Reserve Officers Say Demographics Ignored in Nominations to\nClose Naval, Marine Reserve Centers\n To: National Desk, Defense Writer\n Contact: Herbert M. Hart of the Reserve Officers Association of\n the United States, 202-479-2258\n\n WASHINGTON, April 13 /U.S. Newswire/ -- The Reserve Officers\nAssociation of the United States has alerted the Defense Base\nRealignment and Closure Commission that the services failed to give\nsufficient weight to demographics in recommendations made to close\n56 Naval and Marine Corps Reserve centers.\n In letters to the closure commission and to all 86 members of\nCongress with affected locations in their constituencies, including\nSen. Sam Nunn (D-Ga.), chairman of the Senate Armed Services\nCommittee, ROA charged that the developers of the Navy-Marine list\nignored demographics of the civilian population, particularly prior\nservice personnel.\n ROA's executive director, Maj. Gen. Evan L. Hultman, AUS (Ret.),\nsuggested \"concern that the only plausible alternative is that they\nare intentionally attempting to foreclose the Naval Reserve\ncomponents from maintaining even today's relatively low level of\nparticipation in their parent service's Total Force of the future.\"\n He asked the commission \"to remove from consideration all\nlocations without sufficient and convincing demographic data to\nwarrant approval of the requested action.\"\n \"Only a few of the 56 Naval and Marine Corps Reserve\ninstallations on this list are large enough to have a significant\nimpact on the community, if closed,\" wrote Hultman. \"The major\nissue is the cumulative impact of moving or closing such a large\npercentage of the existing locations.\"\n Hultman reminded the commission, \"The fact that the vast\nmajority of the Reserve installations on this list do not come\nclose to meeting the minimal requirements for consideration in this\nprocess certainly supports the thesis\" that these actions are\nsimply an attempt to foreclose a substantial role for the Navy and\nMarine Corps Reserve.\n ROA also noted \"that at the end of the 1960s, when the number of\nNaval Reservists was approximately the same as today, there were 480\nNaval Reserve facilities. If the Navy recommendations are\napproved, there will be less than 200 Naval Reserve facilities.\"\n Facilities on the list include seven Naval Air Stations ranging\nfrom South Weymouth, Mass., to Alameda, Calif., 28 Naval\nReserve Centers in Macon, Ga., and Parkersburg, W.Va., to\nMissoula and Great Falls. Mont. Naval/Marine Corps Reserve\nCenters include four in San Francisco, Fort Wayne, Ind.,\nBillings, Mont., and Abilene, Texas.\n A major Marine Reserve Center on the list is that at El\nToro, Calif., plus six others.\n -30-", "We are Dartmouth engineering students.We are looking for documented\ndata regarding the wear associated with turning on an off a monitor and\nhow it relates to power consumption. Interested in a comparison\nbetween the wear on a monitor which is left on continuously and one\nwhich is turned off when not in use. \n\nPlease personalize E-mail to: ds@Dartmouth.edu\n\nThank you,", "\n\n\n\n\n\nWhat is fornication? (sex outside of marriage, abuse of sex) \n\nIs not homosexual intercourse outside the context of marriage?\nIsn't it an unatural use of what God has given us?\n\nWhy is it that homosexuals are using the Grace of God as a license to\npractice sin? \n\n For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long\n beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who\n turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only \n Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.\n\n Jude 4 (NASB)\n\nWhat is defined by God as a legitimate marriage?\n\n For this cause a man shall leave his father and his mother, and\n shall cleave to his wife; and the shall become one flesh.\n\n Gen 2:24 (NASB)\n\n And He answer and said, \"Have you not read, that He who created them\n from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, and said, 'FOR THIS \n CAUSE A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER, AND CLEAVE TO HIS WIFE;\n AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'? Consequently they are no longer\n two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no\n man separate.\" \n\n Matt 19:4-6 (NASB)\n\n But because of immoralities, let each man have his own wife, and let\n each woman have her own husband. Let the husband fulfill his duty\n to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband.\n\n 1 Corinthians 7:4,5 (NASB)\n\n\nI disagree... Every law that is written in Leviticus should be looked at \nas sin. That is why we have a need for a savior. I can understand \nsomeone who may not know a particular sin listed in the Levitcal law, but\nI would hope that they would repent when confronted with it.\n\n\n\nAlso I noticed that the preceeding verses say. \n\n Also you shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness during her\n menstrual impurity. And you shall not have intercourse with your\n neighbors wife, to be defiled with her. \n\n\n Leviticus 18:19, 20 (NASB)\n\nThese verses are just as relevant as:\n\n You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an\n abomination.\n\n Leviticus 18:22 (NASB)\n\nWhy was God telling the Israelites not to practice such things?\n\n Do not defile yourselves by any of these things; for by all these\n the nations which I am casting out before you have become defiled.\n For the land has become defiled, therefore I have visited its \n punishment upon it, so the land has spewed out its inhabitants.\n But as for you, you are to keep My statutes and Judgments, and \n shall not do any of these abominations, neither the native, nor\n the alien who sojourns among you\n\n Leviticus 18:24-26 (NASB)\n\nHe is the Lord... Listen to what he has to say... \n\nNobody wants to dismiss homosexuals. We do love you, but we don't \nagree that what you practice is not sin. You have not truly repented\nof your sin. We hate the sin that is within your lives. I hate sin\nthat is in my life. All Christians should hate the sin that is within\ntheir own lives. Confrontaion with sin should bring about repentance. \nYes I agree with John 3:17, but I also know that Jesus said, \"Repent for\nthe kingdom of heaven is at hand\" Matt 3:17. If you don't agree that\nhomosexuality is sin than how can you repent from it? This means that\nyou remain in bondage to it. Repent from it and God will set you free.\n\nIn His Love, \n\n Mike\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nMichael Christensen | Trust the Lord with all your heart,\nSenior Product Support Engineer | And do not lean on your own \nProcom Technology, Inc. | understanding. Proverbs 3:5 (NASB)", "\nHow can a witness tell that someone in a burning truck is dead rather than\nunconscious?\n\n\nWhat kind of witnesses? If we are talking about witnesses who were at\nthe accident, or were otherwise directly involved (e.g., paramedics,\nemergency room doctors, etc.), then they should have been used at the\nfirst trial. You don't get a new trial because you screwed up and\nforgot to call all of your witnesses.\n\nIf we are talking about new expert witnesses who will offer new\ninterpretations of the data, note that the loser can *ALWAYS* find\nsuch witnesses. If this were grounds for a new trial, then the loser\ncould *ALWAYS* get a new trial, and keep doing so until the loser\nbecomes a winner (and then the other side would come up with new\nexpert witnesses).", "...\n\n\nI'm in Japan.\n(Michael, could you give me more info about where Akita is: nearest city\nwould be good)\n\nIf I find it, I'll get pictures and post a digitised version if enough\npeople are interested.\n", "People *die* of natural causes, too. We hear all this bellyaching over\nthings like murder and war while Mother Nature is killing people all of\nthe time.\n\nIn fact, more people die of natural causes than due to the conscious\nactions of other people. So, what's a few murders here and there?\n\n\n-- ", "He sounds really cute, Morte! Kinds like _pete's dragon_, maybe smaller,\nmaybe a different species.. winge'd? (shakespear wing-ED)\n\nI've always hat a horde of mice to turn to for fun & sort of that kind of\nmouse in Cinderella (walt disney). I grew up sort of as an only child,\npart time.. my siblings were 10-8-6 years older than me, so i was pretty\ncommonly a different sort of charater in their games (read: non speaking\nhot cocoa-goffer, stand in (still silent) bad guy/good guy/etc), so my\nmice were playmates, more than advisors.\n\nCould curt, or whomever has a good list of books please post such list,\nin all sorts of fields, like jungian, condensed buddist/etc philosophies,\nmultiple personailty disorders, or good fiction that has well worked\nimaginary friends?", "\nI do recall Watt making a comment to this effect, though it was quite a few\nyears back and I can't cite the specifics. I also recall that Cecil Andrus, who\nwas Secretary of the Interior during the Carter Administration, responded\nto Watt's comments by pointing out the stewardship role that God gave\nto man, as recorded in Genesis. Which makes me wonder: who are the\ntrue conservatives? It seems to me that a *conservative* should want to\n*conserve* things of value for long-term societal benefit. This form of\n*conservation* should logically extend to the physical environment in \nwhich people live, as well as the moral environment in which they relate\nto one another and to God.\n\nIMHO, Watt's stewardship status is not enhanced by the fact that he served \non the board of directors for Jim Bakker's organization, during a time in \nwhich Bakker committed criminal acts which eventually landed Bakker \nin federal prison.", "\nAh! Excellent. So why doesn't she appear to me? I'm a little weak in the\nblind faith department. (Besides, she doesn't even really need to appear:\nhow about, oh say, a little tip - something like \"put your all on #3 in the\n7:30 at the Dog Races\" ... perhaps in a dream or vision.)\n\n\nI'm afraid I don't know arabic; I have only read translations. I wouldn't\nknow it if it were well-written. (Consistent, though, is one thing the Quran\nis not.) And have *you* read it in arabic? Besides, some of my best\nwriting has been done under the influence of, shall we say, consciousness\naltering substances.\n\n\nYes, so? How do we know they *weren't* very good? (Again, assuming that the\nQuran is beautfully written.)\n\n\nOk, I retract this point. (Although I might still say that once he knew, he\nshould have done something about it.)\n\n\nI haven't interviewed all muslims about this; I would really like it if this\nwere false. But I can't take it on your say-so - what are your sources?\n\n\nWhat other basis do we have to judge a system? Especially when we can't get\na consistent picture of what Islam \"really\" is. Do I believe Khomeini? Do I\ngo by the Imam of the mosque in Mecca? Or perhaps the guy in New Jersey? Or\nperhaps you say I should go only by the Quran. Ok, whose translation? And\nwhat about things like \"And wherever you find idolators, kill them\"?\n\n-s", "\n\n\n\n\nThat's great. Read my article. Edit out the personal formality, and save.\n--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGeorge Gruschow Death do you gronk.\nag625@yfn.ysu.edu ggruscho@nyx.cs.du.edu", "\n\nI think its a great, but idealistic idea. A reseacher will first of all try \nto publish a worthy paper in a credible, professional magazine and not in a \ncommunity like USENET which is infamous for lots (not all) of junk \ninformation. The papers that will be \"published\" here will, in general, be \nof low quality. Also, it is improbable that any credit will be given to a \nresearcher who publish here - and sadly, that is nowadays a main reason for \npublishing.\n\nUSENET is great for informal discussions and free exchange of ideas - keep \nit like that. A new, specialist group is just not worth it.", "A brief political/cultural item.\n\nRadio station WGMS in Washington is a classical music station with\na large audience among high officials (elected and otherwise). \nImagine a radio station that advertises Mercedes Benzes, diamond\njewelry, expensive resorts and (truthfully) Trident submarines.\n\nThis morning I heard a commercial for the space station project.\nDidn't catch the advertiser.\n\nGuess they're pulling out all the stops.", "This question derives from the Waco incident:\n\tCould CS (\"gas\") particles create an allergic response which would \nresult in laryngospasm and asphyxiation?- especially in children.", "Once again, this posting has been delayed for about a week by falling\nbetween some software cracks...\n\n\n[Here follows an introduction to the controversial incident, and an\n apologetic explanation purporting to show why it couldn't actually\n have happened. The historicity of the episode doesn't matter to what\n follows]\n\nI don't know whether I'm quoting Gregg or Zakaria below. Anyway, back\nto current affairs,\n\n\nAmong others; this incident is not something Rushdie or Watt or anyone\nelse dug up from nowhere, it is a well known story, a myth if you\nwill, known (according to Umar Khan) to \"Every Muslim school boy and\ngirl\", and so presumably to Rushdie, and to Gibreel Farishta.\n\n\nYes, this is what writing fiction is all about. Rushdie was writing\nabout a crisis of faith, and chose this myth to present it, by placing\nthe actor \"Gibreel\" in the role of the angel whose name he took.\nRushdie was not writing a history or theology book, and nowhere claims\nor implies that this is what actually happened. It's somewhat like\nstories woven around the relationship between Jesus and the reformed\nprostitute Mary Magdalene (another myth). Or those referring to the\nArthurian mythos, or the Grail legend, or the Wandering Jew, or dozens\nof others. If you can stand to read the work of a blasphemer,\nconsider Salman Rushdie's children's book \"Haroun and the Sea of\nStories\" for an idea of the way a storyteller -- a specific\nstoryteller -- works with existing story lines.\n\n\nNo. Muhammad's [Mahound's] integrity is not really impugned in this\npart of the story, and there's no reason to think this was Rushdie's\nintent: Gibreel, as the archangel, produces the verses (divine and\nsatanic), though he doesn't know their provenance. It is not implied\n(in a straight reading) that Muhammad influences them:\n\n \" *Not my voice* I'd never know such words I'm no classy speaker\n never was never will be but this isn't my voice it's a Voice.\n Mahound's eyes open wide, he's seeing some kind of vision,\n staring at it, oh, that's right, Gibreel remembers, me. He's\n seeing me. My lips moving, being moved by. What, whom? Don't\n know, can't say. Nevertheless, here they are, coming out of my\n mouth, up my throat, past my teeth: the Words.\n Being God's postman is no fun, yaar.\n Butbutbut: God isn't in this picture.\n God knows whose postman I've been.\"\n\nIt's ambiguous: is Mahound somehow manipulating Gibreel? Is it Satan?\nOr something else? The answer is not given.\n\nTo be sure, the question is raised. This novel explores faith and the\nrole of revelation in religion, among other things. Addressing loss\nof faith implicitly raises questions about the truth of revelation,\nbut this novel proposes no answers, at least not directly. The very\nexistence of a newsgroup named \"alt.atheism\" raises the same\nquestions, more forcefully, and does propose some answers, which is\nthe real relevance. If Rushdie's mild fictional exploration is \"filth\nand lies\", and he \"asked for what he got\", are we next on the fatwa\nlist? (That's a rhetorical question, of course.)\n-- \nJim Perry perry@dsinc.com Decision Support, Inc., Matthews NC\nThese are my opinions. For a nominal fee, they can be yours.\n\n", "The fan in my power supply, like most, is distractingly LOUD. Has anyone found \na solution to running a pc with peace and quiet? Short of buying a notebook \nPC, I don't know what to do. Oh yeah, I did hear about a power supply called a \n\"Silencer\" - which is supposed to be more quiet. Has anyone had experience with\nthis? I was quoted a price of $225 (!) for a 270Watt Silencer.\n\nI've even considered stuffing my PC case in one of those acoustic \"printer \nenclosures\", but that wouldn't be the most elegant solution. Also, I'm \nguessing that would also cut the ventilation.\n\nAny other ideas?\n\nThanks in advance for ANY suggestions! Please E-mail whatever you post...\n", "Piper lived in my town (Williamsport, PA) when he killed himself. It\nwas in the early '60's. He had had more than a few books published by\nthat time, but he was down on his luck financially. Rumor was that he\nwas hunting urban pigeons with birdshot for food. He viewed himself as\na resourceful man, and (IMO) decided to check out gracefully if he\ncouldn't support himself. The worst part is that John Campbell, the\nlong-time editor of Astounding/Analog SF magazine had cut a check for\nPiper's most recent story, and said check was in the mail. If Campbell\nhad known Piper's straits, I'm sure he would have phoned to say hang on.\nCampbell was like that.\n\nI wish it had happened differently. I always enjoyed Piper's stuff.", "LISTOWNER: I have sent this to Mr Anderson privately. Post it only\nif you think it of general interest.\n\nHere is a copy of something I wrote for another list. You may\nfind it relevant.\n\nA listmember asks:\n\n > What makes common-law marriages wrong?\n\nA common-law marriage is not necessarily wrong in itself. There is\nnothing in the Bible (Old or New Testament) about getting married by\na preacher, or by a priest (Jewish or Christian). And in fact Jewish\npriests have never had any connection with weddings.\n\nThere is a common notion that the marriage is performed by the\nclergyman. In fact, the traditional Christian view (at least in the\nWest) is that the bride and groom are the ministers of the marriage,\nand that the clergyman is there only as a witness.\n\nHOWEVER!\n\nThe essential ingredient of a marriage is mutual commitment. Two\npersons are considered to be married if and only if they have bound\nthemselves by mutual promises to live together as husband and wife,\nforsaking all others, till death do them part.\n\n The reason why those who have reason to be concerned about who\nis married to whom have always insisted on some kind of public\nceremony is in order that society, and the couple themselves, may be\nclear about whether a commitment has been made.\n\nSuppose that we do away with the public ceremony, the standard vows,\netc. Instead, we have a man and a woman settling down to live\ntogether.\n After a year or so, the man says to the woman: Hey, honey, it\nwas great while it lasted, but I think it's time to move on.\nyounger.\nocean, as eternal as the stars. As long as I live, I am yours,\nutterly and completely. When I lie on my deathbed, my last feeble\nbreath will utter your name. My...\"\nman is in a romantic mood, he is bound to say all kinds of silly\nthings like that. You mustn't take them literally.\n\nAnd that is why you have an insistence on a formal ceremony that is\na matter of public record.\n The Church insists on it, because it is her duty (among other\nthings) to give moral advice, and you cannot give a man moral advice\nabout his relations with a woman if you have no idea who is married\nto whom, if anybody, and vice versa.\n The State insists on it, since the state has a concern with\nproperty rights, with child care and support, and therefore needs to\nknow who has made what commitments to whom.\n Prospective fathers-in-law insist on it, because they don't\nwant their daughters seduced and abandoned.\n Prospective spouses insist on it, because they want to make\nsure they know whether what they are hearing is a real commitment,\nor just \"poetry.\"\n And persons making vows themselves insist on making them\nformally and publicly, in order that they may be clear in their own\nminds about what it is that they are doing, and may know themselves\nthat this is not just rhetoric. This is the real thing.\n\n Hence the insistence on a formal public explicit avowal of the\nmarriage commitment. The Church goes further and insists that, when\nChristians marry, a clergyman shall be present at the wedding and\nrecord the vows on behalf of the Church, not because it is\nimpossible to have a valid wedding without a clergyman, but in order\nto make sure that the couple understand what the Christian teaching\nabout marriage is, and that they are in fact promising to be married\nin a Christian sense. The Church also prefers a standard marriage\nvow, and is wary of letting couples Write their own vows, for much\nthe same reason that lawyers prefer standard terminology when they\ndraw up a will or a contract. Certain language has been repeatedly\nused in wills, and one can be sure how the courts will interpret it.\nTry to say the same thing in your own words, and you may find that\nthe probate judge's interpretation of them is not at all what you\nintended. Similarly, the Church prefers to avoid endless debates\nabout whether \"You are my main squeeze\" and \"I am here for the long\nhaul\" do in fact cover the same territory as \"forsaking all others\"\nand \"till death do us part.\"\n\n This topic has come up on the list before. (Is there any topic\nthat hasn't?) One listmember was asking, \"If a couple love each\nother and are living together, isn't that marriage in the eyes of\nGod?\" Eventually someone asked, \"In that case, what is their status\nif they break up? Is that the moral equivalent of getting a divorce?\nAre they in a relationship that God forbids either of them to walk\nof that!\" In fact, there are reasonable grounds for suspecting that\nsomeone who says, \"We don't need a piece of paper or a ceremony in\nfront of a judge or a preacher in order to show that we love each\nother,\" is trying to have it both ways -- to have the advantages of\nmarriage plus the option of changing his mind with a minimum of\nbother.\n\nAt this point someone may say, \"None of this applies to me and my\nmate. We are quite clear on the fact that we have assumed a lifelong\ncommitment, 'for better or worse, forsaking all others, till death\nus do part.' So in our case, no ceremony is needed.\"\n To this my reply would be: The reason for requiring a driver's\nlicense is to keep dangerous drivers off the road. What is wrong in\nitself is not the existence of unlicensed drivers, but the existence\nof dangerous drivers. However, testing and licensing drivers is an\nobvious and reasonable means of pursuing the goal of reducing the\nnumber of dangerous drivers on the road. Therefore the State rightly\nmakes and enforces such laws, and you the citizen have a positive\nmoral obligation to refrain from driving without a license no matter\nhow much of a hotshot behind the wheel you think you are.\n\nBack to the original question. We have a listmember who knows a\ncouple who have been living together for around 20 years. He asks:\nAt what point did they stop fornicating and start being married? I\nanswer: at the point, if any, where they both definitely and\nexplicitly accepted an obligation to be faithful to each other, for\nbetter or worse, as long as they both lived. If they have accepted\nsuch an obligation, what are their reasons for not being willing to\ndeclare it in front of, say, a justice of the peace?", " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nDO NOT HEAT THE CCL4 -- IT MAKES PHOSGENE GAS of WW-I poison gas fame\n\n(remember when they used carbon tet in fire extinguishers?)\n\n\n(yes, I know I was yelling)\n\n-- ", "Jeff, \n\nIf you have time to type it in I'd love to have the reference for that\npaper! thanks!\n\n--\n\nkathleen richards email: karicha@eis.calstate.edu", "\n------------ Part 2 of 14 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But I'd call that a rather odd usage of the word \"objective\", and\nit opens the way for statements like \"Murder is objectively wrong for all\npeople, to within 1% of the total population.\"\n", "\nFirst off, let me congratulate you for not posting a flame about \"You sick\nperverts, you are immoral, you are all going to hell.\", which seems to be the\nusual \"religious\" post found on the alt.sex.* hierarchy. Hopefully, you won't\nget flamed, either.\n\nYou will, however, be argued with. I personally think that your project is\nbuilt on unsteady ground.\n\nFirst, I do not believe that there is any way to find an \"objective morality\". \nMorality and value are inherently subjective - they represent the beliefs of a\nperson or a group of people. They can be widely held, perhaps even\noverwhelmingly held, but they are never and _can_ never be objective.\n\n\nSecond, I do not accept the assumptions that you make here. If, as you say,\nyou are trying to be objective, then why accept a morality to begin with by\nusing the Christian Bible? You're defeating your own purpose by doing so.\n \n\nThird, call me a pessimist, but you won't stop the flamage. There will always\nbe people who pop upin alt.sex.* to tell us how sick and twisted and evil we\nall are. Just out of curiosity, do alt.sex readers show up unprovoked in the\nreligion groups to tell you all that you are narrow-minded, censoring,\noverbearing totalitarianists?\n \n\nHm. Let me provide an example. Four people get together over dinner, to\ndiscuss morality: you, me, a rather conservative Moslem, and a sociopath. I\nstart off by saying that I think it's immoral to force people to have sex with\nyou. You agree, but also say that it is immoral to have sex with someone of\nyour own gender. (Just a note: I really don't know your views on\nhomosexuality, I am just using this as a common view of morality for the\npurposes of this example.) The Moslem says that it is immoral for women to\nhave their faces uncovered.\n\nThe sociopath, who has become bored, kills all three of us and eats us, but\nfeels no guilt because he has done nothing wrong morally in his own mind. \n \n\n\t(Evidence deleted)\n\nI'm not going to accept your evidence for this. You ask us to accept \"The Word\nof God\" that everything good comes from God. This is only a valid argument for\na person who shares your beliefs.\n\nStill, I must say that cataloging the major themes and motifs in erotica could\nbe interesting for other reasons than yours, so good luck with this next part.\n\n\nHmmm...do I detect just a wee bit of condescence here?\n \n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\t\t\t\tnot very objective. \n\n\nOne could construe this to mean that beautiful people are better, or \"more\ngood\" than non-beautiful people. I would hope that people relize that this is\nnot necessarily true.\n \n ^^^^\n Might I suggest the word \"penis\"? It seems more in line with the tone of\nyour post. \n \n\nBravo! I respect you and your sense of humor, sir. \n\n \nYes, and this theme is usually what the better stories are about. However,\nthey are not always selfish - I could point to examples in the work of Elf\nSternberg, for example.\n\n\nIt serves the same purpose as it does in pornographic movies: it affirms the\nvirility of the male involved, as well as assuring the reader that he (the\ncharacter) has orgasmed. \n\n\nYour Whole Picture [TM] unfortunately only applies to people who accept your\nchurch.\n \nIn addition, if sex is for procreation, then\n\n1)\tWhy did God make it pleasurable, so that people would want to do it,\nrather than building it in as instinct?\n2)\tWhy did God make it fallible? Not every sexual encounter results in\npregnancy, even among Catholics. Does this mean that they have sinned?\n \n \nGranted.\n\n\nPornography would not tend in those directions if there were not a demand for\nit. Many people have violent fantasies that they would never act out in real\nlife, but will think about and read about and mull over.\n\nLater,\n\t\t\t\t\t\tJeff \n", " >the design and propoganda stages that she doesn't care any more? ", "\nWell, I didn't bother writing to Boxer, Feinstein or Eshoo, the terrible\ntrio who allegly represent me. Instead, I wrote to Bentsen. My letter\nwas not exactly strongly-worded; I simply stated that the BATF approach\nwas immoral (military-style assault, firing into a house where they knew\nthere were kids).\n\nAparently, Bentsen forwarded my letter to the BATF and they responded to \nme directly. It follows the text of your reply pretty closely. However,\nI intend to send another letter directly to them, in return.\n\n\nThis section is not in the letter that I received. The parts about ATF\nlogo and steenking badges or their loss of the element of surprise\nwere not included, either.\n\n\nThe same guy with the bad handwriting apparently signed my letter, \"for\nRichard L. Garner; Chief, Special Operations Division\".", "\n[...deletions...]\n\n\nAn \"Islamic Bank\" is something which operates in a different fashion to\nyour modern bank, as I have explained here (on another thread) before.\nFor example, Islamic banks don't pay fixed interests on deposits, but a\nreturn on investments (which varies according to the market, and is not\nfixed like interest is).\n\nIslamic banks are a relatively new phenomenon in the Islamic world.\nThere are no Islamic banks in \"the West\", including the USA, to my\nknowledge. I doubt if the market for them exists there -- at least not\nwhile \"Islamic banks\" are at a relatively early stage of their\ndevelopment as is the case now. BCCI is most certainly not an \"Islamic\nbank\" -- did BCCI ever pay a fixed interest rate on deposits? If the\nanswer to this question is \"yes\", then BCCI was not an Islamic bank, as\nIslamic banks are specifically set up to _not_ pay or charge interest.\n\nWhether some Muslims partially owned the bank or whatever is completely\nirrelevant. ", "[By default, followups to 3 newsgroups.]\n\nA short excerpt:\n\n[...]", "Bully, Them; Bludgeon Them, Bury Them.\n-- \nDave Feustel N9MYI ", "\nOOOoooh, complaining about my spelling.\n\nI'm _so_ hurt.\n\nNo I'm not a student. I'm an alumnus. And an employee.\n\nSo I can get my money _back_ from these grubs.\n\nBNR, huh? I hope you're not a permanent,\nthey'd be wasting benefits on you.\n\npthptptphhph!\n\n", "\nWell, certainly in Archimedes case the description \"while observing the\nphenomena in his bath\" seems more accurate than \"while meditating in\nhis bath\" -- it was, after all, a rather buoyancy intense environment.", "\nThat's the craziest thing I ever heard. Are you serious?\n\n\t\"it doesn't take much work to be moral?\"\n\n\nReally? And that's why people discuss morality on a daily basis?\nBecause it's a kind of evolutionary hangover, like your little toe?\n\n\nThis must be some novel use of the phrase \"based on\" with which I\nam not sufficiently familiar. What do you mean by \"based on\" and \nwhat is the significance of it for your argument?\n\n\nWell, we can. What would you like to know about my particular moral\nbeliefs?\n\nIf you raise a topic I've never considered, I'll be quite happy to \ninvent a moral belief out of thin air.", "\nThat's ridiculous!\n\n\nThey aren't designed, they evolved. And, much as it discomforts us, in\nhumans a trouble-free birth process was sacrificed to increased brain and\ncranial size. Wild animals have a much easier time with birth than humans do.\nDomestic horses and cows typically have a worse time. To give you an idea:\nmy family tree is complicated because a few of my pioneer great-great-\ngrandfathers had several wives, and we never could figure out which wife\nhad each child. One might ask why this happened. My great-great-\ngrandfathers were, by the time they reached their forties, quite prosperous\nfarmers. Nonetheless, they lost several wives each to the rigors of\nchildbirth; the graveyards in Spencer, Indiana, and Boswell, North Dakota,\ncontain quite a few gravestones like \"Ida, wf. of Jacob Liptrap, and\nbaby, May 6, 1853.\"\n\n\nMore like one in ten. And the consequences can be devastating; I have\ndirect experience of more than a dozen victims of a fouled-up breech birth.\n\n\nIt isn't always fatal. But it is often fatal, when it happens out of\nreach of adequate help. More often, it permanently damages one's health.\n\nClearly women's bodies _evolved_ to give birth (I am no believer in divine\ndesign); however, evolution did not favor trouble-free births for humans. \n\n\nMy, aren't we wroth! I haven't read a more outrageous straw man attack\nin months! I can practically see your mouth foam.\n\nWe're statistically sophisticated enough to balance the risks. Although\nI can't produce exact statistics 5 years after the last time we looked\nthem up, rest assured that we balanced C-section risks against other risks.\nI wouldn't encourage my wife to have a Caesarean unless it was clearly\nindicated; on the other hand, I am opposed (on obvious grounds) to waiting\nuntil an emergency to give in.\n\nAnd bear this in mind: my wife took the lead in all of these decisions.\nWe talked things over, and I did a lot of the leg work, but the main\ndecisions were really hers.\n\n\nI don't know of very many home birth advocates, even, that think that\na first-time mother should have her baby at home.\n\n\nBut people should bother to find out the relative risks. My wife was\nunwilling to take any significant risks in order to have nice surroundings.\nIn view of the intensity of the birth experience, I doubt surroundings\nhave much importance anyway. Somehow the values you're advocating seem\nall lopsided to me: taking risks, even if fairly small, of serious\npermanent harm in order to preserve something that is, after all,\nan esthetic consideration.", ": \n: When you force people to associate with others against their will,\n: yes.\n: \n: People are *forced* into the USA armed forces?\n\nThey were in the recent past, maybe someone knows for certain if the\nusa has decided if it wants a conscript army (as they sent into south\neast asia) or a volenteer one?\n\n--", "Stupid me. I believed the Democrats stood for principles of personal\nprivacy while it was the Neanderthal Republicans that wanted into every\naspect of our lives. \n\nClinton is just more clever than the other guy. Looks like gun control for\nprivacy technology. One small step at a time.\n\nWait a minute.... Let me think about this.\n\nHmmm, I feel better now. I believe the White House when they tell us\nthis first step is, in fact, the final step. All is OK. We've nothing to fear.\nThey're here to help us. \n\nGod bless America.\n-- \n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nJohn Hesse | A man, \njhesse@netcom.com | a plan, \nMoss Beach, Calif | a canal, Bob.", "\nDunno, the newpaper article I read didn't say (I was wondering the same\nthing). I rather doubt it... \n\n", "\n\nAnd I thought the nutters were the ones throwing the bricks from the\nbridge.......\n\n\nAn institution?\n\n", "This is the most unmitigated bilge I've seen in a while. Jim Brown obviously\nhas possession of the right-wing token.\n\n\n\"In December, former national security adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski told a\nSenate committee that sanctions were costing Iraq $100 million per day, and\nthat the multinational coalition could take all the time in the world.\nIraq, he suggested, was losing badly every day it defied the UN demands,\nwhile the community of nations won every day -- with no taking of life or\nloss of life.\" -- FCNL Washington Newsletter.\n\n\nWrongful actions of murderers like leaders of the US government, perhaps?\nRegrettable, of course; The-Way-It-Is - certainly not.\n\n\nGood heavens! An escapee from Rush Limbot Land! \"Conservative\", my ass.\n\n\nBULLSHIT!!! In the Gulf Massacre, 7% of all ordnance used was \"smart.\" The\nrest - that's 93% - was just regular, dumb ol' iron bombs and stuff. Have\nyou forgotten that the Pentagon definition of a successful Patriot launch\nwas when the missile cleared the launching tube with no damage? Or that a\nsuccessful interception of a Scud was defined as \"the Patriot and Scud\npassed each other in the same area of the sky\"?\n\nAnd of the 7% that was the \"smart\" stuff, 35% hit. Again - try to follow me\nhere - that means 65% of this \"smart\" arsenal missed.\n\n\nProve it. I have a source that says that to date, the civilian death count\n(er, excuse me, I mean \"collateral damage\") is about 200,000.\n\n-s\n--\n \"No one has attempted to calculate the costs of an execution in\nWashington state, but studies elsewhere suggest it costs far more than\nincarceration.\n \"California is spending more than $90 million annually on capital cases,\nand until this year hadn't executed anyone since 1972. Texas, the national\nleader in the number of executions, spends an estimated $2.3 million per\nexecution. That compares to an average cost of incarceration in Washington\nstate of $25,000 per maximum-security prisoner per year.\"", "\nPeter Nelson posted a very eloquent response to this point in \ntalk.politics.misc, so I need not consume more bandwidth here.\n\n\n\nWhat I meant, if it was not clear, was the intersection set of liberal\nand libertarian philosophies of \"natural rights\" and how the government\n(and Constitutional interpretation in particular) fits into that \nphilosophy. This philosophy engages in the very serious practical \nerror of endowing the nine lawyers on the Supreme Court with an almost \ntotalitarian authority, completely outside of the consent or consensus \nof The People. This is why Supreme Court nominations are such amazing\npolitical fist-fights these days, because He who Controls the Court\nRules the Country. The people on the Court may well be trying to do\nthe best job they can, but they are at best a benevolent oligarch, even\nif you approve of every Supreme Court decision ever. Eventually, an\noligarch will arise that will decimate that which you hold dear. Try \nSupreme Court cases by Jury, and the problem would be mitigated a great \ndeal.\n\nThose who would create broad, non-enumerated government powers at any \nlevel (as in European Parlamentary Democracies and the current de-facto\nstandard in the U.S.) have essentially engaged in the same fundamental \nmistake, except that it is some different body that has the totalitarian, \nvirtually unchecked (except by plurality election, death, or retirement), \ngovernment power. \n\n\n\nThis is like asking why the wind blows, unless you can prove that\nthe fact of your engaging in certain activities has absolutely no \neffect whatsoever on any other human being who has not consented to\nyour engagement in those activities. Very few human activities indeed\nfit into this category. \n\nEven for those few that do, who would you empower to make the judgement \nof what is and is not a fully autonomous activity? Who defines \"picking \nmy pocket\" and \"defrauding\"? Are economic assets a person's only assets,\nor are peace of mind, stability, confidence in a child's emotional \nenvironment, security, and many other things not also a part of a person's\nassets? What gives you the right to create a moral environment that a\nparent strongly objects to? What gives you the right to create an \nenvironment of social unrest and instability? If you say that what you\ndo does not have those effects, by what authority do you say that? Who\nis empowered to make these value judgements?\n\n\n\nIf the Federal Constitution explicitly prohibited you from doing so, the \nfederal government would prevent you from doing so. If it did not, and\nyou could muster enough local support to pass an amendment to the local\nConstitution (by, say, a 3/4 majority) empowering the local government \nto do so, then I would have to vote with my feet and move to a neighborhood\nmore friendly to my own system of values. This is not an ideal situation,\nbut it is far better than the mess we are mired in right now.\n\n\n\nWhen you define \"rights\" very broadly, there is no practical choice about \nwhether people will or will not infringe upon your rights since these\n\"rights\" overlap. Even when rights are defined very narrowly, the government \nhas been empowered to prevent others from infringing on your rights. The \nfundamental question is, by whose authority is that power created. If you \nsupport the current situation with a \"natural rights\" Supreme Court (rather\nthan an \"original understanding\" Supreme Court or, even better, Supreme\nCourt by Jury), you are consenting to having nine lawyers in Washington, \nD.C. create those powers out of the air. In my \"Fractal Federalism\" scenario, \nit is a broad consensus of The People (i.e. the amendment process) that \ncreates those powers.\n\n\n\nNo, I mean the federal government that comes trucking in with guns to\ntell the locals how to run their neighborhood. Waco, TX is a nice example.\n\n\n\nIf you create a community where public masturbation is permitted in the \ncause of \"personal autonomy\", have you done anything different? What\nprecisely are these autonomous activities you are referring to? If you\nlist them, perhaps we can get enough people to agree that they are truly\nautonomous and pass a constitutional amendment protecting them.\n\n\n\n\nThe Koresh Incident appears to be a horrendous abuse of government power,\npower possibly illegitimately obtained through a means I would abolish. \nThe constitutionality of \"no-knock\" warrants seems very dubious to me, not\nto mention the mere existence of BATF and the government's propensity to \nignore the word \"infringe\" in the Second Amendment. This power is upheld \nby the same body, with its incredible concentration of power in the hands \nof nine people, that has upheld much so-called \"Civil Rights\" (read- affirmative \naction) legislation despite the Fourteenth Amendment.\n\n\n\nMoney is certainly not the only asset I have in this world. If it were,\nthis would be a bleak existence indeed.\n\n\n\n\nMatt Freivald\n\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\nLiBORGalism:\n THINKING IS IRRELEVANT. INTEGRITY IS IRRELEVANT.\n FREE SPEECH IS IRRELEVANT. PRIVATE PROPERTY IS IRRELEVANT.\n PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY IS IRRELEVANT.\n CONSERVATIVISM IS FUTILE.\n YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED.\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTHESE ARE MY OPINIONS ONLY AND NOT THOSE OF MY EMPLOYER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!", "Catch tonight's (Thursday's) CBS Street Stories. Covers, among others,\nthe work of AWARE (Arming Women Against Rape and Endangerment), a women's\nempowerment and training group in Massachusetts. They'll be interviewing\nspokesperson Nancy Bittle, as well as some of her students. (Assuming\nall of the \"interesting\" stuff they taped makes the final cut.)\n\n[If they show the ugly housebreaker in the toque and sunglasses, wave hi.]\n-- ", "\n\nThat was hardly the point, was it? I was commenting on this all-too-common\nRepublican attitude that if people disagree with us, they must be idiots, they\nmust be sheep being led around by the Evil Liberal Media Conspiracy. This is\na dangerous attitude indeed. Because it's not a very big step from \"people\nare sheep, they can't think for themselves\" to \"people are sheep and need\nfirm leadership from we, who know better\"... this sort of attitude makes\nme worry about what'll happen to the United States if the extremist wing\nof the Republican party ever gets back into power again.\n\n\nHey! This is a government-funded newsgroup! Let's have some separation\nof church and state, damn it!\n\n\n\n\nMore like:\n\nBroward: \"Clinton's going to raise your income taxes by over $1000!\"\nMark: \"No, he's not, only about $204.\"\nBroward: (silence)\n\n\nOK, I predict that in 1996 the Republicans will STILL be bitter. Yeah, yeah,\nI know, it's not very impressive to predict things that are inevitable...", "\nIllegal to receive land-mobile telephone service? Don't you have to have a\nmobile reciever to even have land-mobile telephone service? What about\nship-to-shore telephone service?\n", "RESIDENTIAL LOT FOR SALE\n\n\n\n\n\n I have a nice residential lot available. It is approx-\n imately 1/2 acre in size. It is located in the development\n called Belvedere Plantation in Pender County, eastern North\n Carolina, north of Wilmington. The lot is near the Intra-\n Coastal Waterway. Golf and tennis are located on the\n development property. Belvedere Plantation also has a mar-\n ina facility on the ICW. This lot is nearby to all of the\n facilities mentioned.\n\n\n\n I own the lot outright but it does not look like I will\n get back to the area anytime soon. I would like to sell it\n for that reason. Make an offer.\n\n\n\n If interested please send E-mail.\n gt0463b@prism.gatech.edu. - Mike Smith\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n", "(misc.legal trimmed)\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nWell, that's the obvious conclusion, given your train of logic. The\ncorollary then is that it must be a waste of time for the party to run\ncandidates until the educational program has shown some results.\n\nFollowups to a.p.l.\n-- ", "From: \"dan mckinnon\" \n\n\t I have lurked here a bit lately, and though some of the math is\n\tunknown to me, found it interesting. I thought I would post an article I\n\tfound in the Saturday, April 17, 1993 Toronto Star:\n\n\t 'CLIPPER CHIP' to protect privacy\n\nPolitics is of course Dirty Pool, old man, and here we have a classic\nexample: the NSA and the administration have been working on this for\na *long* time, and in parallel with the announcement to us techies, we\nsee they're hitting the press with propoganda.\n\nIt's my bet the big magazines - Byte, Scientific American, et all - will\nbe ready to run with a pre-written government-slanted story on this in\nthe next issue. ('Just keep us some pages spare boys, we'll give you\nthe copy in time for the presses')\n\nWe *must* get big names in the industry to write well argued pieces against\nthis proposal (can you call it that when it's a de facto announcement?) and\nget them into the big magazines before too much damage is done.\n\nIt would be well worth folks archiving all the discussions from here since\nthe day of the announcement to keep all the arguments at our fingertips. I\nthink between us we could write quite a good piece.\n\nNow, who among us carries enough clout to guarantee publication? Phil?\nDon Parker? Mitch Kapor?", "\nYou fall if it opens, too.\n\nGravity: it's not just a good idea; it's the law.", "\nThis is REALLY STUPID nitpicking. Capitalization rules in the late 18th\ncentury were quite different from today, and what was posted matches current\ncapitalization rules.\n\nWe also don't make 's' look like 'f' and other such things done in the late\nseventeen hundreds.\n\nIn the original Constitution, \"militia\", \"arms\", etc. were capitalized simply\nbecause they were nouns. This is also done currently in German. There is\nno special significance to these words simply because they are capitalized.\nThe capitalization denotes no special emphasis.\n\n-Pete Zakel\n (phz@cadence.com or ..!uunet!cadence!phz)", "\n\tTwo thoughts.\n\n\t- I think that psychologically it will be easier for the next \ngeneration to accept genetic manipulation. It seems that people frown\nupon 'messing with Nature', ignoring our eons-old practice of doing just that.\nAny new human intervention is 'arrogance and hubris' and manipulation\nwe routinely do is 'natural' and certainly 'not a big deal'.\n\n\t- Most interesting human traits will probably be massively\npolygenetic and be full of trade-offs. In addition, without a positive\nsocial environment for the cultivation of genetic gifts, having them won't\nbe the advantage it's made out to be. Some people will certainly pursue it\nas if it is the Grail, but we know how most of those quests turn out.", "\nUnless I've got my notes mixed up, 939 F.2d 499 comes close to this.\nRegular guy. Blue-collar worker at a regular company. Hauled into\ncourt. Convicted. Appeals to 7th circuit. Makes all the right\narguments (his brief is cited by Mr. Teel as an example of a\n\"winning\" brief). Shot down, 3-zip by the 7th circuit. Appeals to\nthe Supreme Court. And...\n\n...Certiorari denied. Defendant goes to jail. Oh well.", "\tI think I have updated info on this. My understandingis that\nformer officer Cranston approached a teenager who was being questioned\nby another officer. Officer Cranston struck Teenager A in the head\nwith a heavy police flashlight, causing a significant, though not\nlife-threatening. THere is no evidence that Teenager A was\ndoing anything threatening at the time. Teenager A was released\non bail/recognizance and filed a formal complaint against Officer\nCranston. The Police Chief suspended Cranston pending an \ninvestigation into the use of excessive force. \n\tThe above is pretty clear... but what seems to have \nhappened is this. The Chief requested Cranston's gun, but Cranston\nrefused to turn it over until the Chief went the Cranston's home\n to get it. Sources said Cranston had always wanted to be\na cop and was very afraid of loosing his job because of the complaint\nagainst him.\n\tA few days afterward, Cranston allegedly walked into \nWilson's Garage, where Teenager A and friends were known to\nhang out and work on cars as a hobby. Cranston fatally shot\nTeenager A as well as TEenagers B and C. Teenager D was shot once\nin the shoulder/chest. Teenager E was working under the car\nand was not noticed by Officer Cranston. Teenager D went to a home\nand summoned police, who went to Wilson's Garage and found the \n3 corpses and one unscathed survivor.", "The home office number for ENVIRONET is (301) 286-5690 (note area\ncode change). A friend of mine used to use it to get LDEF data, but\nhe had to apply for a login name and password. I have a call in for\nmore info, which I hope to get in the morning.", "<\n< > I wonder if she landed such a fat fee from cooperation with the NSA in\n< >the design and propoganda stages that she doesn't care any more? \n<\n< Which is to say: is the NSA -totally- perfidious, or does it at least\n\n\nOf course they take care of their own ... very well ... until the person\nhas 'outlived his/her/undefined usefulness'... then 'elimination' becomes\na consideration... :-)\n", "I think this is getting a little overheated. Highway robbers have been a\npart of life since the Middle Ages at least. It's human nature to look\nat history through rose colored glasses, but random acts of violence have\nbeen a ceaseless part of our heritage. Overall, life is better now than it\never was then. It's just that random individual acts of violence have\nnever\nbeen historically significant, and record keeping in the past was never\ngood\nenough to retain them all. ", "\nI think it was a typo for \"Karelian photography\", which is the\npractice of taking pictures of either Finns or Russians, depending\non whom one asks.", "\nGood question; I don't know what the law considers them.\n\n\nI believe this is what happens in some states.", "Let's discuss Reno's taking full responciblity. Is everyone happy with the \noutcome? Did the FBI pursue the correct course of action? was justice done?\nIf Reno really meant what she said she would resign! She is just grand\nstanding, period. What did those people do wrong in the first place? that is\nwhat i can't figure out. sure they were crazy, no dought about it, but what did \nthey do wrong? someone please help me out on this.", "A CNN factiod in the last few months stated that 40% of all the computers\nin the U.S. are left on 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. I don't recall\nCNN's source.", "\n\nActually, Jerry Brown essentially did...and Clinton, in his demagogue\npersona, condemned Brown for it in the crucial NY primary last year.\n\nHowever....\n\nWhy don't the Republicans get their act together, and say they\nwill support a broad-based VAT that would have to be visible\n(the VAT in Canada is visible unlike the invisible VATS they\nhave in Europe)\nand suggest a rate sufficient to halve income and corporate\nand capital gains tax rates and at a rate sufficient to give\nthe Clintons enough revenue for their health care reform, and\nforce an agreement with the Democrats that the top income tax\nrate would then be frozen for the forseeable future and could\nbe increased only via a national referendum.\n\nWhy not make use of the Clintons to do something worthwhile...\nshift the tax burden from investment to consumption, and get\nhealth care reform, and a frozen low top marginal tax rate\nall in one fell swoop.", "# #The official and legal term for rape is \"the crime of forcing a FEMALE \n# #to submit to sexual intercourse.\"\n# \n# Please, supply me with some references. I was not aware that all states\n# had the word \"FEMALE\" in the rape statutes. I am sure others are surprised\n# as well. I know thats how it works in practice (nice-n-fair, NOT!!), but\n# was unaware that it was in the statutes as applying to FEMALES only,\n# uniformly throughout the U.S.\n# \n# -Chris\n\nThere may be some confusion here. The Uniform Crime Reports program\nrun by the FBI defines rape as a female victim only crime -- even\nthough some states have the laws de-sexed. I suspect that this causes\nmale victims of rape to be left out of the UCR data.", "\n\n\tCannot? Try, will not.\n\n---\n\n \"One thing that relates is among Navy men that get tatoos that \n say \"Mom\", because of the love of their mom. It makes for more \n virile men.\"\n\n Bobby Mozumder ( snm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu )\n April 4, 1993", "\n: I have seen these numbers quoted before, and I have seen very specific\n: refutation of them quoted as well. If someone will be so kind as to\n: email the relevant information, I will write a letter to the editor of\n: the Co. Daily (which might get published) and send a copy to USN&WR as\n: well.\n\nThanks to all who responded. The letter has been written (making liberal\nuse of info provided by various net.folks) and handed to the paper. I'll\npost if it gets into the paper!\n\n--Dan\n\n--\n DoD #202 / loki@acca.nmsu.edu / liberty or death / taylordf@ucsu.colorado.edu \n Send me something even YOU can't read...\n-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----\nVersion: 2.1", "do not, and i repeat, do not, cross post the following subjects to \nsoc.culture.iranian:\n\nRe: Jews Supports Serbs\nRe: Arab Leaders and Bosnia\nRe: HizbAllah in Bosnia\nRe: The Stage is Being Set\n\nthat's all we need here; more bigotry and hate! believe me,\nwe have already reached our quota for the year. try again\nnext year.", "\n\"Personal gain\": for his own monetary advantage. I don't think\nanyone would dispute that he both violated his oath of office, and\nabused his powers. But that's not for personal gain.\n", "In response to alleged circular reasoning concerning the morality of \nhomosexuality, clh poses the following challenge:\n\n\nI answer,\n\nThe circle is simple to break. The Church teaches that homosexual\nbehavior is immoral. This teaching is raw, impassionate, unassailable\ndogma. That closes the argument for me.\n\n\n-- \nRandal Lee Nicholas Mandock \nCatechist\ngt7122b@prism.gatech.edu ", "\nBasically, any prophet I've ever dealt with has either been busy \nhawking stolen merchandise or selling swampland house lots in \nFlorida. Then you hear all the stories of sexual abuse by prophets\nand how the families of victims were paid to keep quiet about it.\n\n\nNever mind that, but let me tell you about this Chevelle I bought \nfrom this dude (you guessed it, a prophet) named Mohammed. I've\ngot the car for like two days when the tranny kicks, then Manny, \nmy mechanic, tells me it was loaded with sawdust! Take a guess\nwhether \"Mohammed\" was anywhere to be found. I don't think so.\n\n\nOh, Mohammed!\n\n\nYeah, you, Mohammed!\n\n\nYou slimy mass of pond scum!\n\n\nYeah, right! You're the one should be watching your butt. You and\nyour buddy Allah. The stereo he sold me croaked after two days.\nYour ass is grass!\n\nJim", "\nThough I think this an overstatement, it does contain a grain of truth. It's\ndrug dealers, spies, terrorists, and organized crime figures (assuming\nenough probable cause to convince a judge) who need to be watched, not\nlaw-abiding citizens.\n\nDavid", "Thank you Andrew. Not only for the firm rebuttal, but for understanding the \ndifference between communism and socialism (even though this is off topic).\nWhy do people just not understand that just because all those pretty songs about\nthe land of the free and so on sound nice, that they may not be true?\nTake off those rose colored glasses and get a clue (to use two of the better \ncliches around)\nthanks you again\njamie\n", "Edgar Pearlstein asks (Fri 7 May 1993) whether the Supreme Court, or\nany other government authority, has attempted a legal definition of\nreligion.\n\nThe Universal Military Training and Service Act of 1958 exempted\nfrom the draft those whose \"religious training and belief\" was\nopposed to participation in war in any form. It defined \"R T & B\" as\n\"an individual's belief in a relation to a Supreme Being involving\nduties superior to those arising from any human relation, but [not\nincluding] essentially political, sociological, or philosophical\nviews or a merely personal moral code.\"\n\nIn the 1965 case of UNITED STATES V. SEEGER, the Supreme Court\nbroadened the definition so as not to restrict it to explicit\n\n We have concluded that Congress, in using the expression \"Supreme\n Being\" rather than the designation \"God,\" .... the test of belief\n \"in a relation to a Superme Being\" is whether a given belief that\n is sincere and meaningful occupies a place in the life of its\n possessor parallel to that filled by the orthodox belief in God\n of one who clearly qualifies for the exemption. Where such\n beliefs have parallel positions in the lives of their respective\n holders we cannot say that one is \"in a relation to a Supreme\n Being\" and the other is not....\"\n\nMy immediate reference is THE FIRST FREEDOM, by Nat Hentoff,\n(Delacorte 1980, Dell 1981).", "\n\n just a point, i suppose, if open mind means believing anything can be true\nor we can't for sure know what is definitely true, i'm happy to not be open\nminded. if, however, open mindedness means being respectful and tolerant\ntowards other beliefs, respecting the rights and intelligence and wisdom\nof people of other beliefs and giving equal time to alternative ideas, i\ntry my very best to be open minded. just a thot in passing.... :)\n\n\n not being married, i cannot say too much to you, but from my perspective\nhaving mutually exclusive faiths would be a big enough roadblock for me in\nconsidering marrying someone. making it much bigger than it is? i suppose\nthat depends on how serious each of you is in your beliefs. lukewarm atheists\nand christians for whom religion is of nominal importance probly would feel\nthe issue isn't very big. i suppose the more important your beliefs are to\neach of you, the more important the issue is.", "\nThe interesting notion is that (I watched TV tonight) Koresh never\nclaimed officially to be Jesus Christ. His believers hoped that \nhe would be, but he never took this standpoint himself.\n\nHe was more interested in breaking the seven seals of Revelation,\nand make sure that Armageddon would start. Well it did, and 19\nchildren died, and no God saved them.\n\nKent", "Pete--\nThat was uncalled for. I'm sure Andi Beyer or whatever his name is\nwas a product of his environment before he came to school, and is\nenjoying the mantle of THE UNIVERSITY to make his viewpoint seem\nlegitimate (well-reasoned). I'm at Virginia, too, and I think \nmaligning UVA is in poor taste, even if Beyer did slip in here.\n", " You've got it. What you regard as a right, someone else will regard\nas a privilege. Followups to some generic ethics and morality\nnewsgroup ....", "B\nB\n\n", "\nI've got no doubts that this would probably have gone ahead if Bush\nwas still president. What's puzzling to me are the people who are\napparently amazed that Clinton is going along with it.", "\n\n\n\nMy understanding of the academic use of the word cult is that it is\na group of people oriented around a single authority figure. It need\nnot be religious. However, I have seen plenty of religious cults,\nincluding some that mainstream.", " I know this is a little weird, but I know that World magazine (you know,\nNational Geo. for children) did a very simple and concise article on Kirlian\nphotography. They had some neat pictures, too. A friend of mine's mother had\na book on Kirlian photography, only it's photographs took a radiologist to \ninterpret. They (World magazine) warned us all that it was very dangerous,\nprobably to stop curious children from experimenting with it. Mind you, this\nwas 10 years ago, at least. (And boy, does that say something about my age)", "bruce@liv.ac.uk (Bruce Stephens) suggests different levels of acceptance of\nhomosexuality:\n\nI would add 4': our churches should accept homosexual orientation but hold all\npeople to certain standards of sexual behavior. Promiscuity, abuse of power\nrelationships, harrassment, compulsivity are equally out of place in the lives\nof homosexual as of heterosexual people.\n\nOf course, this would bring up the dread shibboleth of homosexual marriage,\nand we couldn't have that! :-)", "\n\n\n\n\tVery narrow. Very, very narrow. If you'll recall, I was the\nnut that advocated the possibility of tactical nukes being militia\nweapons in certain situations. How can you possibly define what is a\nweapon and what isn't is only the start of this.\n\n\n\n\tAnd you've just described any civilian reactor because your\ndefinition fails to note what energy is being considered. Reactors\nblow with a steam explosion, but the majority of energy still comes\nfrom fission or fusion because that is what heated the coolant. See\nwhat a can of worms this is? Last I heard, Ft. Calhoun station just\nnorth of Omaha, Nebraska wasn't considered a weapon. Given the\nsodium-cooled breeder designs on the blocks now, I can easily envision\nreactors being household appliances in under twenty years. With the\nPRISM design, there is *no* operator input needed on the reactor\nitself, and it is not unreasonable to assume the secondary side can\nbe made equally as automatic in the future. So your definition is\nflawed in a few respects already.\n\n\n\tTyphoid Mary would likely fit this bill if she sneezed. If\nyou don't mind extrapolation, any HIV-positive person also fits this\nbill if they interact with others in a way that stands any chance of\nspreading the virus. Finally, that manure pile I mention below fits\nthis definition, as does, say, releasing a pet rattlesnake to the wild.\n\n\n\tAnd I can show where any such gas has other uses. For example,\nperhaps we would like to rid the hay field of gophers. Calcium Carbide\nis a rock that dissolves in water to produce aceteylne gas. It can\nbe used for welding, in miners lamps, for gassing gophers, or for\nmaking carbide bombs and doing some illicit fishing. Toss some in a\ntoilet and leave a lighted cigarette on the seat and you'll see that\nit can also be a weapon, just like any other flammable substance.\nSo, now my miners lamps won't work, I can't do any welding, and I\nstill have those pesky gophers.\n\n\n\tThe basis for, but I'm sure you see that the problem is not\nin writing a law, it is in writing a law that cannot be abused and\nextended beyond the point where it does any good.\n\n\n\n\tIt is under your proposed law. So is a silage pit if there\nis run-off. So are underground fuel tanks.\n\n\n\n\tIt meets all the criterion of a weapon. It is an instrument that\ncan be used for fighting, even though that is not its intended purpose,\nand despite there being better weapons around. Given that the aquifers\nsupply a significant part of the country with drinking water, mass\ndestruction is rather a given.\n\n\tIt's not that certain weapons aren't something I'd rather not\nsee a lot of people having. The problem is that it is nearly\nimpossible to write a law such that it cannot be abused upon some\npretext or another. The looser your definition, the more ripe for\nabuse that law is. Furthermore, if you get specific then the old\nstandby is to insert a clause allowing the list of banned things to\nbe added to, generally without going through the hassles of another\nvote and public reading of the law. Again, ripe for abuse.", "Avoiding mistakes is certainly highly desirable. However it is also \nwidely acknowledged that perfectionism is inimicable to creativity. \nAnd in ordinary life, perfectionism carried beyond a certain point is \nindicative of a psychological disorder. In the extreme case, a \nperfectionist becomes so paralyzed by all the possible mistakes he might \nmake that he is unable to even leave the house. \n\nIn science, we want to discover as much truth about the world as possible \nand we also want to have as much certainty as possible about these \ndiscoveries. Usually there is some trade-off between these two desiderata \n--- the search for scope and the search for certainty. \n\nIf 18th century mathematicians had demanded total rigor from Newton and \nLeibniz then there would probably be no calculus today, because neither \nof the two could explain calculus in a way that really made sense, since \nthey lacked the concept of a limit. And in fact, because of the lack of \na rigorous foundation, they made a number of errors in their use of calculus. \nIt was only a hundred years later that Weistrass was able to give a solid \ngrounding for the ideas of Newton and Leibniz. Nonetheless, what Newton \nand Leibniz did was undoubtedly science and mathematics gained a great \ndeal more from the application of their important ideas than it lost \nthrough the mistakes they made. \n\n\nThese are not the rules according to many who post to sci.med and\nsci.psychology. According to these posters \"If it's not supported by\ncarefully designed controlled studies then it's not science.\"\n\nTaken to the extreme, I believe that the attitude that empirical studies \nare everything and ideas are nothing results in a complete stultification \nof science. \n\nFor one thing, an insistence on an elaborate and expensive methodology \nresults in a sort of scientific trade-unionism, where those outside \nthe establishment and lacking institutional or corporate support have \nno chance to obtain a hearing. (I don't in the least believe that this \nis the intention of the arbiters of scientific methodology. Nonetheless, \nit is one of the results.) And although institutional science has \ncertainly produced many wonderful results, I think it is a foolish \narrogance for scientists to believe that no one outside the establishment \n--- and using less than perfect empirical methodology --- will ever come \nwith anything worthwhile. \n\nFurthermore, the big bucks approach to science promotes what I think is\none of the most significant errors in science: choosing to investigate\nquestions because they can be readily handled by the currently\nfashionable methodology (or because one can readily get institutional\nor corporate sponsorship for them) instead of directing attention to\nthose questions which seem to have fundamental significance.\n\nFor instance, certain questions cannot be easily investigated with\nstatistical methods because the relevant factors are not quantitative.\n(One could argue that this is the case for almost all questions in many\nareas of psychology. In my opinion, a perusal of many of the papers\nresulting from the attempt by psychologists to force these questions\ninto a statistical framework gives the lie to Russell Turpin's\nassertion that current scientific methods \"avoid all known errors.\")\n\nI think that asking the wrong question is probably the most fundamental \nerror in science. (Ignoring potentially valuable ideas is one of the \nothers.) And I think that scientific journals are full of all \ntoo many studies done with impeccable empirical methods but which are \nworthless because the wrong question was asked in the first place. \n\n--\nIn the arguments between behaviorists and cognitivists, psychology seems \nless like a science than a collection of competing religious sects. ", "\nThis is a good question. There are major blind spots in our understanding\nof what makes the earth habitable. For example, why does the earth's\natmosphere have the concentration of oxygen it does? The naive\nanswer is \"photosynthesis\", but this is clearly incomplete. Photosynthesis\nby itself can't make the atmosphere oxygenated, as the oxygen produced\nis consumed when the plants decay or are eaten. What is needed\nis photosynthesis plus some mechanism to sequester some fraction of\nthe resulting reduced material.\n\nOn earth, this mechanism is burial in seafloor sediments of organic\nmatter, mostly from oceanic sources. However, this burial requires\ncontinental sediments (in the deep ocean, the burial rate is so slow\nthat most material is consumed before it can be sequestered).\n\nThis suggests that a planet without large oceans, or a planet without\ncontinents undergoing weathering, will have a hard time accumulating\nan oxygen atmosphere. In particular, an all-ocean planet may have a\nhard time supporting an oxygen atmosphere.\n\nThere is also the problem of why the oxygen in the earth's atmosphere\nhas been relatively stable over geological time, for a period at least\n2 orders of magnitude longer than the decay time of atmospheric O2 to\nweathering in the absence of replenishment. No convincing feedback\nmechanism has been identified. Perhaps the reason is the weak\nanthropic principle: if during the last 500 MYr or so, the oxygen\nlevel had dropped too low, we wouldn't be here to be wondering about\nit.", "\n\nAs a libertarian (with a small l) who voted for Clinton, I think that he\nshould abolish the Selective Service and the draft. If his conscience\nforbade him to go to war in Vietnam, it should forbid him to perpetuate\nthis system of government-sanctioned slavery.\n\n\nIf our government would pay attention to SERIOUS domestic issues (the ECONOMY)\nand choose to stay out of other people's wars (Iraq, Bosnia, Somalia),\nwe would not be in this fix. An anyway, couldn't the jobs be replaced by\nimproving our domestic situation? (I'm not for continued deficit spending,\nbut if Clinton and Congress want to spend, I'd rather they improve the \ninfrastructure than fight other people's wars.)\n\n\nA novel idea: Getting away from naval bases, what about refurbishing\ndecommissioned Air Force bases as airports? This would be SO much cheaper\nthan building them from the ground up (Denver's new airport is one of the \nmost appalling examples of pork-barreling and cronyism I have seen in\nmy lifetime). Even if no more airports are needed, I'm sure Bill Gates\nor Ross Perot would LOVE to have their own private airfields, and the\nmoney from their purchases could be applied to the public debt.\n", "\tA few things about the University. It is more fun than some may\nadmit. Partying does go on and it has consistently been ranked\none of Playboy's top party schools. But we do study and more\nimportantly learn a lot. The overall UVa drug use is actually\nlower than the average college in the U.S. \n\tThere is no hate law on the books even though they (The\nforces of PC) tried to have one last year( by the way a similar\nlaw at the University of Wisconsin ? was found unconstitutional\nlast year). There is a law\nagainst relationship of professors with their students or\nadvisees that just passed. \n\tThomas Jefferson was the sole author of the Virginia\nstatute for religious freedom(the basis for the first ten\namendments), though he is not given full credit for righting\nthe bill of rights. So someone who picked on me for that is\nright. \n\tBy the way, we're the man in everything. Sports\nacademics and partying. I'm sure a lot of other schools are\ngood at what they do as well, so don't start mailing me junk.\nI'm happy where I am and maybe I'll go to one of y'alls medical\nschools in a couple of years.\n", "San Mateo Duplex houses for sale:\n\n\tWest side location, Alameda and HWY 92. large lot 55X140. Nice\n\tquiet location, No front neighbor, space for pool or jacuzzi.\n\tspacious rooms, cozy living room with fireplace. Only minutes\n\tfrom highways 280 and 92 and 101. Excellent schools, shopping\n\tand transportation nearby.\n\n\t \n\tUnit one: \" Remodeled \" 2100 SQ foot\n\t\t3 bedrooms\t2 baths\t\tLarge master suite\n\t\tDen/study\tEat in Kitchen\tVery large Backyard\n\t\tFenced backyard\tHardwood floor\tWall to wall carpet\n\t\tMarbel/tile/vinyl\t\t2 car garage\n\t\tcar port\tWasher and dryer hook up\n\t\tLiving room dinning combo\ttotally remodeled\n\n\n\n\tUnit two: \" BRAND NEW CONSTRUCTION \" 645 SQ Foot\n\t\t1 bedroom\t1 bath\t\tFire place \n\t\tDinning room\tPrivate yard \tPrivate entry\n\t\tdetached unit\tWasher & dryer\tLiving room\n\t\tBarbeque patio\tAll separet Utilities from the city\n\n\tPrice $468,500 ( By Owner )\n\n\tCall Medi Amadi at 510-601-1525 eves\n\t\t\t 510-823-3366 days\t\n\t\t\t\n", "\n >I recently have become aware that my health insurance includes\n >coverage for abortion. I strongly oppose abortion for reasons of\n >conscience. It disturbs me deeply to know that my premiums may\n >be being used to pay for that which I sincerely believe is\n >murder. I would like to request that I be exempted from abortion\n >coverage with my health premiums reduced accordingly.\n\nI share Dennis's outrage over a similar manner. I have recently become aware\nthat my health insurance includes coverage for illness and injuries\nsuffered by Christians. It disturbs me deeply to know that my premiums\nmay be used to pay for that which I sincerely believe is divine\npunishment for their sinful conduct. In addition these folks are able to\navail themselves of such alternative therapies as Lourdes, Fatima,\nMorris Cerullo, Benny Hinn, etc. In any case as \"Jesus Saves' I feel\nthat there is no reason for them to be covering their bets at my\nexpense. I would like to request that I be exempted from Christian\ncoverage with my health premiums reduced accordingly.", "The trouble with trying to find out the truth is that Roehm and his\nbuddies were ACCUSED OF being flaming faggots, one of the pretexts for the\nNight of Long Knives in which Roehm and most of the SA wing of the NSDAP\nwere purged. Since the accusers thereafter controlled the records,\nanything bearing on the subject -- true or not -- has to be considered\ntainted evidence. The available data suggest that Roehm and his crowd,\nthe SA -- Sturmabteilung, \"Storm Troopers\" -- left the world a better\nplace when they departed, but concrete particulars are still no more than\nmore or less shrewd guesses. \n-- Diccon Frankborn\n", "\n\tIt seems radio reports were overly optimistic. All Clinton wants to\ncut is $2.5 Billion for community block grants, keeping in summer jobs.\n\n\tHmmm, well, looks like we need to keep up the pressure on our\ncongresspersons.", "Hi,", "Not on my system.", "\nI don't know about you, but I have nearly forgotten how to generate paper\nmail.\n\nIf I had e-mail to Congress, I would have written many letters by now.\nI haven't written one yet, as it turns out. Writing on paper is such\na complicated job, for those of us hooked on our way-cool Internet.\n", "\n\n\t\t\t\t ^^^^^ ^^^^^\n*Would*? Ha Haaaa Haa ha haAA\n\nHow the hell can they come up with a number, specified to the units\ncolumn, on something as complicated as this?\n\nFace it, it's the perceptions that matter here, folks, not the facts.\nEspecially this one:\n \n\t\t\t ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nAccording to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, that means over 7200 new jobs\nfor Allegheny county (metro Pgh) alone!\n\nHaaaa HAAA ha HA HAAA heh heh HAAAA \n\nDoing what? I hope it's fixing the potholes on my street. \n\nLet's face it, folks, we're in a depression and this is the WPA.\n\nClinton's really coming here to beat on Sen. Arlen Specter, who happens\nto be vacationing in Africa (Don't know whether to laugh or cry)\n\n", "\n\nDitto for me..", ": >The Selective Service Registration should be abolished. To start with, the\n: >draft is immoral. Whether you agree with that or not, we don't have one now,\n: >and military experts agree that the quality of the armed forces is superior\n: >with a volunteer army than with draftees. Finally, the government has us\n: >on many lists in many computers (the IRS, Social Security Admistration and\n: >Motor Vehicle Registries to name a few) and it can find us if it needs to.\n: >Maintaining yet another list of people is an utter waste of money and time.\n: >Let's axe this whole department, and reduce the deficit a little bit.\n: >\n: >\n: > - Dave Borden\n: > borden@m5.harvard.edu\n: \n: \n: You selfish little bastard. Afraid you might have to sacrafice somthing\n: for your country. What someone not approve a lone for you ? To bad.\n: What is immoral is: people like you and the current president who don't\n: have any idea why this country still exists after 200+ years.\n\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\tThis country still exists after 200+ years\n\t\t\t\t\tbecause the \n\t\t\t\t\tpeople have to be forced by the government to\n\t\t\t\t\tfight in foreign wars?\n\t\t\t\t\tI don't think so...", "\nDoes the phrase \"Innocent until proven guilty\" have ANY meaning anymore?\n\n\n--\njmd@handheld.com", "\n\n\n HAHAHAHAHAH. Oh, CHRIST! Oh, HAHAHAHAH.\n\n whew. Mark, what on EARTH makes you think I give a FUCK\n about being a \"success\", particularly NOW when I'll just\n the HELL taxed out of me? Oh, this is excellent.\n\n Holy christ! :)\n\n Besides, let's examine the record, shall we?\n\n Broward: \" Clinton's going to taxe the HOLY FUCK out of you! \"\n Mark: \" No, he's not. Only $17 / month \"\n\n ( I STILL get a laugh out of this one! :) )\n\n Broward: \" Oh, here comes a National Sales Tax \"\n Clinton Supporter: \" Oh, no, Bill never said that \"\n\n\n Want some more \"free predictions\" ?\n\n :)\n\n\n\n Yup. They surely did.\n Almost as pathetic as Clinton suppoters are looking in\n April of 93. \n\n Well, chumbo, I see my my watch here that my \"appointment\"\n at the lake is about 2 hours past due! :)", ": The Selective Service Registration should be abolished. To start with, the\n: draft is immoral. Whether you agree with that or not, we don't have one now,\n: and military experts agree that the quality of the armed forces is superior\n: with a volunteer army than with draftees. Finally, the government has us\n: on many lists in many computers (the IRS, Social Security Admistration and\n: Motor Vehicle Registries to name a few) and it can find us if it needs to.\n: Maintaining yet another list of people is an utter waste of money and time.\n: Let's axe this whole department, and reduce the deficit a little bit.\n\n\tMore \"gridlock\" talk from another relic of the past. The\nSelective Service system creates jobs and is an investment in \nthe future of america......and whats wrong with that?\n\n\tWe need jobs because at this point in the recovery, the economy\nshould have generated 10 billion jobs and since it has not, the\ngovernment has to step in and help. Shutting down selective service\nwould cost \"good jobs\" and we can't do that. \n\n\tWhat we really need is to involve selective service in a more\nclosely directed manner. We need the selective service involved\nin environmental protection, high-speed rail, commuter aircraft, \ncivil rights, national service and health care. Every dollar\nwe put into selective service now will get us $10 less spending\nin future.\n\n\tI really believe now to think about it that selective service\nis long-past due for the creation of a cabinet position.\n\n\n\tYour not beyond hope, just get back on america's side and\nstart doing your part for change. What Bill needs from you\nnow is support for the economic stimulus and health care reform.\nYou need to devote all your energies to fighting gridlock and\nsupporting change. Get on the team. After all, the evil has\nbeen banished from washington and the time for complaint \nis past being neccessary.", "\n\n\nThis is factually incorrect. There was at least one message that said that\nWaco and Clipper justified \"anything\" in response.\n\nDavid", "\n\nInteresting. Does she know you have placed this info request on the\nnet for the world to see? If not, how do you think she would react\nif she found out? Why would you accept the advice of unknown entities\nrather than a counselor?\n\n\nSee the counselor.", "I recently ftp'd Al's Circuit Simulator (ACS) and I'm looking for\nthe tutorial which is mentioned in the Users Manual (but not found there).\nI don't have any experience constructing a netlist (such as for SPICE)\nand I need a little help.\n\nThe examples which come with ACS aren't explanatory about the translation\nbetween schematic and netlist. Does anyone have the fabled \"Tutorial\"\nor any other reference which could help me in constructing a netlist from\na schematic diagram?\n\n(I also emailed Al himself but received no response yet. He's probably\n busy with his next release.)\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTim Pillsbury Internet: tsp@ccd.harris.com\n uunet: uunet!ccd.harris.com!timothy.pillsbury", "\nWell, you were going well until you hit this one.\n\nHawaii was an independent country. A coup by Americans led to a request to\nannex it. The US refused, but eventually did annex it several years later\nduring the Spanish-American War.\n--\n\"On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Leftover Turkey!\nOn the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Turkey Casserole\n that she made from Leftover Turkey.\n[days 3-4 deleted] ... Flaming Turkey Wings! ...\n -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait)", "/////// And we thought the unfortunate people in the Branch Dividians were\n Brainwashed ?? They don't hold a candle to this guy......\n\n\nD:d\n:wq\n", "}For those missing the context of this thrilling discussion between\n}Jim and I, Jim wrote the following to me in e-mail after I pointed out\n\nHate to shatter your self image of perfection that you appear to hold, but\nyour language is wrong: Jim and me.\n\n}I pointed out that I did, in fact, agree that both Robert Weiss and\n}Jim Meritt took quotes out of context. Hence, I find it difficult to\n}understand why Jim thinks I am a hypocrite. Needless to say, I don't\n}have time to reply to *every* article on t.r.m. that takes a quote\n}out of context. \n\nOf course not - just the ones you disagree with. Q.E.D.\n\n}>}So, according to you, Jim, the only way to criticize one person for\n}>}taking a quote out of context, without being a hypocrite, is to post a\n}>}response to *every* person on t.r.m who takes a quote out of context?\n}\n}Jim replied by saying \n}>Did I either ask or assert that?\n}\n}But today we find four articles from Jim, one of which has the subject\n\nSo? As of then, and pointing out a specific instance. Wrongo again.\n\n}>Is it not the case that, in the eyes of the law, when someone is aware of\n}>something and has the capability of taking action and does not, that individual\n}>may be held responsible for that action?\n}\n}Which is, of course, a complete red herring. Taking quotes out of\n}context isn't a crime. I don't have time to read every article on\n}t.r.m., and I'm certainly under no obligation to reply to them all.\n\nSo? Check the newsgroups?\n\n}Does \"silence is concurrence\" imply that Jim thinks that because I\n}didn't respond to Weiss' articles I must condone Weiss' taking quotes\n}out of context? Jim doesn't want to give a direct answer to this\n}question; read what he has written and decide for yourself.\n\nTelepathy again? You claim to know what I \"want\".\n\n}But back to the context of my conversation with Jim. Jim's next \n}gambit was to claim that he was using inductive logic when he\n}concluded that I was being a hypocrite. I challenged him to provide\n}the details of that logic that led him to an incorrect conclusion.\n\nNo. YOu asked specifically what was wrong with yours.\n\n}Today we find another obscure article (posting it twice didn't help\n\nMaybe to the ignorant. I accept your classification.\n\n}More red herrings. Could Jim mean that he has read an uncountably large\n}number of my articles? \n\nDo you know what \"uncountably large\" means? It does not appear so.\n\n}Could Jim mean that because I \"axed\" his articles,\n}but not Weiss' articles, he wants to conclude inductively ...\n}Well, I can't see where he is going with this.\n\nI am not suprised.\n\n}But I can help him with his induction. I've written roughly 80\n\nThat does not appear to be the case. The appearance of your \"Argument\"\nis more like that Captain Kirk would have gotten from Mr. Spock - written\nby a stagehand at Paramount.\n\n}Think hard about this Jim. See the pattern? Think harder. Run it\n}through your induction engine and see what pops out. ", "How we survived ww2:\nWe mailed postings about things we didn't know any thing about\nto ONLY the wrong places.\n\nI'm NOT trying to censor this or any newsgroup, I'm just trying to\ngive some hints about OTHER newsgroups.\nDoesn't this belong to alt.conspiracy ??\n\nNOTE!!!\nMy posting was in reply to those about FBI torching the plasce after\nfilling it with napalm, and arrested people dissapering.\n\nObviously we don't.....\nVidkun Quisling is known to be a traitor in Norway, not a 'censor'.\nIf I have betrayed my country (Norway) bescause I implied that som of \nyou jumped to conclusions/sound a little paranoid then I think there\nis a LOT of quislings in Norway.......\n\n\nAbout Waco\nIt looks to me as the BATF and FBI can't handle situations like this.\nThe way it went reminds me of 'stun' bomb beeing dropped on a house\nin LA from a helicopter. (Whole block went up in flames, 5 died...)\n\nIt doesn't HAVE to be a conspiracy, MAYBE they just screwed up ???\n\n\n\n\tThis is not a .signature.\n\tIt's merely a computergenerated text to waste bandwith\n\tand to bring down the evil Internet.\n", "My BBB Autoline arbitration experience is over. \nThe outcome was decidedly mixed. I won the battle but \nlost the war. The arbitrator found that the car was \ndefective, but decided to offer a repurchase well below \nmarket value :(. At the time of the hearing, average \nretail on my truck in the NADA book was $21,025, but \nthe decision was for $17,665. I wrote a letter to the \nCouncil of Better Business Bureaus pointing out the \nfact that if you have an automobile that does not \ndepreciate rapidly, the manufacturer has no incentive \nto deal with you. There is no way that the \nmanufacturer can loose because they can turn around and \nsell the vehicle at a profit if the consumer is awarded \na repurchase. The attitude of Chevrolet's \nrepresentative at the hearing tends to support this \npoint of view; he was totally unprepared and did not \nseem to take the proceeding very seriously.\n\nI decided to take the repurchase, even though I am \ngetting totally screwed on the price. I will not have \nto deal with continuing repairs or selling a lemon \nmyself, and I have no case for a civil suit based on \nthe Idaho lemon law. I am planning to send a letter to \nmy elected representatives telling them how utterly \nridiculous the Idaho lemon law is. The law allows for \na \"use deduction\" equal to the IRS mileage allowance. \nAs if Chevrolet were buying my gas and paying \nfor my insurance.\n\nSummary of the case: In May 1992 I bought a new 3/4 ton\nHD Chevrolet pickup. Between May 1992 and December 1992 \nthis vehicle required repair after repair. Systems \nthat required attention included the transmission, \nheater fan, paint, suspension, and motor. The main \nproblem was the five speed manual transmission. They \ncould not install a non-defective transmission in at \nleast four attempts.\n\nSo, in summary, it is possible to get a repurchase, but \nyou are going to get screwed on the price, unless you \npaid too much in the first place, or if your car \nhappens to be a model that depreciates rapidly.", "Rich Thompson posts some blather about the Libertarian Party:\n\n\n\nWhat pray tell do the Libertarians know about winning elections?\n\nBob\n\n\n--", "\nLIST OF KILLINGS IN THE NAME OF RELIGION \n1. Iran-Iraq War: 1,000,000\n2. Civil War in Sudan: 1,000,000\n3, Riots in India-Pakistan in 1947: 1,000,000\n4. Massacares in Bangladesh in 1971: 1,000,000\n5. Inquistions in America in 1500s: x million (x=??)\n6. Crusades: ??\n\nI am sure that people can add a lot more to the list.\nI wonder what Bobby has to say about the above. \nStandard Excuses will not be accepted.\n-- Naren", "\n Our white knight for Islam rides in again! Our instant expert\non religion, race and ethnicity is at the door! Stand back all. Let \nhim through. He's going to single-handedly rescue Islam from all these\ndastardly mistakes, misquotes, misconceptions.\n", "\n\nOne of the easiest, and really very used ways of copyprotection, is to mark \na specific sector on the installation disk bad. This is very easy to get \naround, though, if you have any knowledge of hw-hacking, but most 'normal' \nusers (yes those lowly key-punchers) don't. Whatever you do, please do \n_not_ use a hardware key. These were very popular a few years ago, and they \nSTINK!!\n\nMAIL-mail: gunnarh@sofus.dhhalden.no SNAIL-mail: Gunnar Horrigmo\n gunnarh@fenris.dhhalden.no Oskleiva 17\n N-1772 Norway", "I have been following this thread on talk.religion,\nsoc.religion.christian.bible-study and here with interest. I am amazed at\nthe different non-biblical argument those who oppose the Sabbath present. \n\nOne question comes to mind, especially since my last one was not answered\nfrom Scripture. Maybe clh may wish to provide the first response.\n\nThere is a lot of talk about the Sabbath of the TC being ceremonial. \nAnswer this:\n\nSince the TC commandments is one law with ten parts on what biblical\nbasis have you decided that only the Sabbath portion is ceremonial?\nOR You say that the seventh-day is the Sabbath but not applicable to\nGentile Christians. Does that mean the Sabbath commandment has been\nannulled? References please.\n\nIf God did not intend His requirements on the Jews to be applicable to\nGentile Christians why did He make it plain that the Gentiles were now\ngrafted into the commonwealth of Israel?\n\nDarius", "\nAbout 18 months ago, I heard a report on NPR about a 900-number\n\"1-900-STO-PPER\" or some such, for placing untraceable calls.\nYou call them, and on \"bong\" tone dial the number you want to\ncall; they told the NPR interviewer that nothing short of a\ncourt order (which they'd fight) would make them release their\nrecords. \n \n\nMatt Healy\n\"I pretend to be a network administrator;\n the lab net pretends to work\"", "\n\nWhat does this bill do?\n\n\nMcD", "\nBosnian Muslims are citizens od Bosnia-Herzegovina who identify themselves\nwith Bosnian Muslim cultural and religious tradition.\n\n\nIn Bosnia, \"Muslim\" is not merely a religious category, but an ethnic\none as well. Actually, here are the two contradictory arguments\nmade by people on this subject:\n\n(1) There is only Serbian and Croatian nationality, and Bosnian Muslims\n are simply Croats and Serbs of Islamic faith.\n\n(2) Bosnian Muslims are a separate nationality since they do not feel\n themselves to be Croats nor Serbs.\n\nIn 1968, argument (2) was accepted by former Yugoslavia as valid,\nand (1) was soundly rejected. The reasons are pragmatic: even if\nBosnian Muslims are Croats and Serbs who converted to Islam under\nTurkish rule centuries ago, none of the present generation has any\nclue what was their ancestor's actual nationality. In fact, although\nBosnian Muslims have felt drawn to Croatian or Serbian national\nallegiance, most of them feel they have a separate cultural and\nhistoric identity. So, arguments like \"yes, but your ancestors were\nCroats or Serbs\" carry very little weight. Regardless of what\ntheir ancestors might have been, as long as Bosnian Muslims feel\nthat they are a separate national group, that ends the debate.\nWhat outsiders say is simply not relevant.\n\n\nIn the case of former Yugoslavia, the date is 1971, when \"Muslim nationality\"\nappeared as a census category for the first time. This was the result\nof a sequence of decisions over the past decade, from recognizing\n\"Bosniaks\" as an ethnic group (1961) to February 1968 resolution (in B-H)\ndeclaring that Muslims are a separate nation, to formal endorsement \nof this in January 1969, and eventually to the 1971 inclusion of\n\"Muslim nationality\" choice in census forms.\n\nFor comparison, in 1948 census there were three national categories\navailable to Muslims in Bosnia-Herzegovina:\n\nSerb-Muslims: 71,991\nCroat-Muslims: 25,295\nMuslims, ethnically undeclared: 788,403\n\nThis clearly demonstrates that Muslims feel themselves to be their own\nnationality. Only a tiny minority felt able to choose Serb or Croat\nnationality. Census results show that Bosnian Muslims have\nconsistently opted for a third category: in 1948 they chose \"undeclared\",\nin 1953 they chose \"Yugoslavs\", in 1961 both \"Yugoslavs\" and \"Bosniak \nethnic group\", and in 1971, 1981 and 1991 they chose \"Muslim nationality\".\n\nPerhaps the term \"Bosnian Muslim nationality\" is too confusing for\nthe rest of the world. But, in the present context, we ARE talking\nabout Muslims as nationality; not as a religous group within some\nseparate national identity. The reasons are mostly historical and\ncultural. Religion plays a smaller role, as a part of culture in general,\nbecause the area is simply not known for religious fanaticism. Political\nfanaticism, yes; religious fanaticism, no. Group security and survival\ndominate people's thinking; not fine points of theology. In fact,\nBosnia-Herzegovina is as well known for religious tolerance in peacetime\nas it is known for terrible carnage in wartime.", "\n\n\tA human has greater control over his/her actions, than a \npredominately instictive tiger.\n\n\tA proper analogy would be:\n\n\tIf you are thrown into a cage with a person and get mauled, do you \nblame that person?\n\n\tYes. [ providing that that person was in a responsible frame of \nmind, eg not clinicaly insane, on PCB's, etc. ]\n\n---\n\n \"One thing that relates is among Navy men that get tatoos that \n say \"Mom\", because of the love of their mom. It makes for more \n virile men.\"\n\n Bobby Mozumder ( snm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu )\n April 4, 1993", "\n\n\n\n I see one thing wrong with your strategy.\nThe boy who cried wolf.\n\n__\n Jorg Klinger | GSXR1100 | If you only new who\n Arch. & Eng. Services |\"Lost Horizons\" CR500 | I think I am. \n UManitoba, Man. Ca. |\"The Embalmer\" IT175 | - anonymous", "The universe, mirrored in a puddle.\nIsn't it amazing how there *always* seems to be *another* bottle of bheer there?\n\nAleph *one* bottles of beer on the wall, Aleph *one* null bottles of beer!\n\n\tyou, too, are a puddle.\n\tAs above, so below.", "\n\nYeah! That's it! :) You've really outdone yourself this time Nick...\nDon't forget the \"Davidian Muslims\"... :)\n\nIslam is not a race. It's a religion. You can be white, black,\nFijian or Alaskan. I guess you didn't absorb too much of the Malcolm\nX interest circulating. You see, the whole point of Islam is that it\nstresses equality amongst all peoples. Now, I do realize this is\ndifficult for you to comprehend given your staunch beliefs in Serbian\nethnic cleansing, but give it a try, it's really not that difficult.\n\n\nThat's right, it's a Disneyland war -- all a setup for the TV cameras.\nThere are also people who believe man never landed on the moon, that\nthe whole Apollo story was done in TV studios...\n\n\nTerms of secession? You are, of course, joking, right Nick? Nobody\n*chose* to fight. Bosnia and Croatia were *internationally*\nrecognized nations when the Serbs attacked and started on their\nwell-documented genocide. That makes them an outside aggressor. It's\na simple genocide, a classical example of ethnic cleansing. There is\nno question of civil war...", " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\n Which is a helluva lot more than any Republican attorney general ever did!\n\n BTW, why all the crocodile tears over wasting a few religious nuts, who\n wanted to be wasted anyway? We just got back from wasting a few hundred\n thousand religious nuts over in the Middle East, and everybody cheered!!", "\nSlight semantical difference. The LDS Church does own a heck of\na lot however. They are the largest land holder in MIssouri\n(where they think Christ will appear at the second coming).", "\n\nYou missed something. I think it takes off vertically and is intended\nto land the same way.\n\n-- \n\"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live\n in the real world.\" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden", "\n\n Perhaps I failed to make myself clear: Minorities in the U.S.\n*correlate* with poverty. This isn't good and we should address it,\nbut we shouldnt' ignore that minorities and poverty *do* tend to go\ntogether.\n\n *Does* Vancouver have a consistantly poor population drawn along\nracial lines? If it doesn't, then assumptions of being able to compare\nminority vs. majority in both cities is questionable at best.\n\n\n If the *rate* of increase over a period of several years remains\nunchanged, or increases, I think it's not a far jump to say that the laws\nare not effective. No, you can't sit down and say that things wouldn't\nhave been worse. I don't have a crystal ball and neither do you. However,\nthat road leads us to a place where it is impossible to critique *any*\naction. If it gets down to be, \"It might have been worse without them,\"\nthen there *is* no valid objection, which I'm sure would amuse certain\npeople to no end.\n\n\n So we've got a situation where we have several options:\n\n\t1) The crime rate decreased: Obviously gun control worked.\n\n\t2) The crime rate remained the same: It would have been worse\n\twithout gun control.\n\n\t3) The crime rate increased: Perhaps the laws prevented an\n\teven bigger increase.\n\n Cute testing ground we've got. All responses support the proposition\nthat gun control works.\n\n The question is this: Did Washington D.C. experiance an increase\nin its violent and/or gun crime rate which was greater than the pattern\nindicated prior to the implemented gun control laws. If it did, then\nthe suggestion that the problem the gun control laws were designed to\n\"control\" did not exist in their entirety prior to the gun control laws.\n", "\nYou are so correct - Clinton did not initiate it. He just cast it in\nGRANITE by implimenting, NOT stopping the DECISION. I also stated in another\npost I don't give a damn what administration does it, I still find it\ntotally unacceptable, and whoever impliments it or rams it down our throats\nought to be run out of office.\n\nAlso, Bush was not trying to deprive us of our Second Amendment rights.\nClinton is BUSTING HIS BUTT in that regard. That reveals a total difference\nin philosophy. Clinton appears to support the idea of TOTAL people\ncontrol. Eavesdropping whenever they feel like it, no real security\nfor the common person, and no ability to defend oneself against illegal\nattack, from whatever source. \"Trust us, we will protect (and control)\nyou... if we don't find it inconvenient...\"\n\nClinton has also shown his utter contempt for public disclosure and\naccountability, as well. He had plenty of time to change the policy.\n\nHE DIDN'T. HE EXPANDED ON IT.\n\nI bet had Bush been in office, you would be in there howling louder\nthan I.\n", "A recent post bears the subject line:\n\n > Re: Serbian genocide work of God?\n\nThe text contains 80 lines devoted to a defence of the doctrine of\npredestination as applied to the salvation of individuals. There is\nthen a five-line post-script on the Balkans. It is natural and easy\nto keep the Subject line of the post that one is replying to, but\nwhen the focus shifts, keeping the same Subject can cause confusion.\n\nThis is intended as a general request. The post mentioned is just\nthe handiest example.", "\nThis does not change the *fact* that \"Muslim\" is a legal and political\nterm defined constitutionally in former Yugoslavia, and therefore has\nmeaning and consequences entirely *independent* and *immaterial* of\nany religious considerations.\n \n\n\nYou only wish it were so.\n\nMore than 2,000,000 residents of Croatia and B-H have *not* accepted the\nterms of secession which Tudjman and Izetbegovic unilaterally forced upon\nthem. Croats and Muslims may have a right to negotiated secession but\nthey do not have a right to grab the *entire* territories of the former\nYugoslav republics of Croatia and B-H.\n\nOh, BTW, *Yugoslavia* was *internationally recognized* when it was \ndestroyed by Tudjman, Izetbegovic, Milosevic, and the international\ncommunity led by Germany. If Yugoslavia's borders could be changed\nagainst its will, then certainly Croatia's borders and B-H's borders\ncan be changed as well. \n\nAs I have stated many times: the civil war in ex-Yugoslavia will end\nwhen the terms of secession (borders, etc.) for Croatia and B-H are\nfinally agreed upon. Serbs, Croats, and Muslims will *all* have to\nmake territorial concessions to reach such an agreement. ", "\\input amstex\n\\documentstyle{amsppt}\n\\pagewidth{6.5in}\n\\magnification=1200\n\\pageheight{7.5in}\n\\\n\\title {Letter to the Editor} \\endtitle\n\\author {Matthew L. Fante} \\endauthor\n\\date {April 20, 1993} \\enddate\n\\endtopmatter\n\npull back the heavens and show you my anger?! ... fear me.'' The 51 day\nstandoff between federal agents and the Branch Davidians ended on April 19\nin what appeared to be a mass suicide by fire. Now that the multi-million\ndollar standoff is over, a few things remain: cleaning up the mess, and\nassigning blame.\n\n\\\n\nFrom the onset of the April 19 tear gas attacks by federal agents, President\nClinton already started passing the buck by saying ``Talk to the attorney\ngeneral or the FBI... I knew it was going to be done, but the decision was\n{\\it entirely theirs}. {\\it They} made the tactical decision.'' Enter\nAttorney General Janet Reno. After most of the Branch Davidians died,\nReno said she took ``full responsibility'' for the decision. ``I approved\nthe plan'' she said adding that she ``did not advise him [Clinton] as to the\ndetails.'' In fact, she told Clinton that it was ``the best way to go.''\nAs the fire was roaring through the Branch Davidian's compound Clinton said\nthat he was ``deeply sadened by the loss of life'' and in the same breath that\n``the law enforcement agencies involved in the Waco siege recommended the\ncourse of action pursued today.'' Later he went on to say ``I stand by that\n[Reno's] decision.''\n\n\\\n\nHow did this all begin? At 0930 on February 28 agents of the Bureau of\nAlcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) launched a full-scale, high-profile\nassault on the Branch Davidian's compound. This raid was much\nmore than an assault on a group suspected of possessing illegal weapons. The\nassault was a planned media circus used as a propaganda device of the BATF\nto show their might and just purpose.\n\n\\\n\nAt the onset of the ``no-knock'' raid, gaggles of heavily armed BATF agents\nmade their way inside the compound without identifying themselves or state\nthat they had a warrant until long after the shooting began.\nSilently, the agents made their way to the compound's buildings and started\ntheir ``search'' by charging at the buildings and throwing concussion grenades\nand ordering the cult members to come out of the buildings.\n\n\\\n\nIf unknown persons dressed in black ninja costumes and combat fatigues\nwere to attack you, throwing grenades and brandishing firearms, would you not\nassume that these people are criminals and attempt to defend yourself? The\ntactics employed by the BATF provoked the battle.\n\n\\\n\nThe initial assualt by the BATF was not successful. Unfortunately, lives\nwere lost on both sides. But, had the assault been a success, the liberal\nmedia would have praised the BATF by showing the footage of BATF agents\ncarting away a bunch of gun-wielding religious nuts. Of course, any\nviolation of the cult's rights would have been overlooked and the media\nwould proclaim America's fortune in having super-cop organizations like the\nBATF that can systematically ``take out'' terroristic groups such as the\nBranch Davidians.\n\n\\\n\nAs far as I can see, the BATF and the FBI dropped the ball - just like\nPhiladelphia did in the 1985 MOVE crisis which left 11 dead, 250 homeless,\nand a city block razed.\nIt appears that the BATF has adopted the shoot-first tactic of no-knock\nraids to execute search warrants. Don't let the BATF convince you that\nthe no-knock raid was justified. No-knock assaults make sense when looking\nfor, say, drugs that can easily be hidden or disposed of in a few seconds.\nThe BATF was looking for illegal weapons, not drugs that could be hidden or\nflushed down the toilet in a matter of a few seconds. What ever happened to\n``This is the police! You are surrounded...''? {\\it This policy of no-knock\nraids, by federal and local agencies, should be restricted}. Further, the use\nof military firepower against presumed innocent citizens is a very scary idea,\nand is why the Davidians were justified in using lethal force to ensure that\ntheir fourth ammendment rights [``the right of the people to be secure in\ntheir persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches\nand seizures''] are not denied.\n\n\\\n\n\\\n\n\\\n\n\\noindent Matthew L. Fante \\newline\n\\end\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n-- \n____________________________________________________________________\nMatthew Fante\nmlf3@Lehigh.EDU For a good prime call 2^756839 - 1", "\nI'm not surprised to learn that `Technical issues are not terribly important' to\nanyone working on a 'Marketing Plan'\n\n:)", "I offer $100, shipment at seller's expense, payment as personal check\nsent by U.S. mail within 24 hours after receiving goods. I reserve the\nright to return the goods, at my expense, if I find them to be defective\nor otherwise unacceptable when I receive them (either the merchandise or\nthe check would be mailed within 24 hours).", "\nWarren Brown, the Washington Post's auto writer was the first journalist\nto get his hands on the New Yorker. If you'd like his impressions of it\nhis review appeared in Friday's paper, in the \"Weekend\" section.\nHe is not your traditional auto writer...\nEnjoy.\n\n", "\nThere is a number you can call which will return a synthesized\nvoice telling you the number of the line. Unfortunately, for the\nlife of me I can't remember what it is. The telephone technicians\nuse it all the time. We used to play around with this in our\ndorm rooms since there were multiple phone lines running between\nrooms.\n\nsorry!", "\n\tHaving watched most of the televised trial, I can answer that\nwhen such statements were made by the defense atty, the prosecutor did\nobject, and the judge tended to sustain the ones that were obviously\nfalling under the \"self-incrimination\" type of objection. There was\nquite a bit of meta-discussion during the trial over the use of graphic\nlanguage, with most folks asking the judge if she wanted to hear the\nexact language. Practically every time the defense tried to get the\nplaintiffs to \"self-incriminate\" by asking them such questions, there\nwere objections and sustains.\n\n\tAt one point the defense managed to get in a quip about\n\"solicitation for a felony\" and the judge herself said \"sustained\"\nbefore the prosecutor could get the objection stated.", "Archive-name: graphics/resources-list/part1\nLast-modified: 1993/04/27\n\n\nComputer Graphics Resource Listing : WEEKLY POSTING [ PART 1/3 ]\n===================================================\nLast Change : 27 April 1993\n\nMany FAQs, including this Listing, are available on the archive site\npit-manager.mit.edu (alias rtfm.mit.edu) [18.172.1.27] in the directory\npub/usenet/news.answers. The name under which a FAQ is archived appears\nin the Archive-name line at the top of the article.\nThis FAQ is archived as graphics/resources-list/part[1-3]\n\nThere's a mail server on that machine. You send a e-mail message to\nmail-server@pit-manager.mit.edu containing the keyword \"help\" (without\nquotes!) in the message body.\n\nYou can see in many other places for this Listing. See the item:\n\n0. Places to find the Resource Listing\n\nfor more information.\n\nItems Changed:\n--------------\n\nRE-ARRANGED the subjects, in order to fir better in the 63K/article limit.\nI PLAN ON CHANGING HEADERS SOON, SO BE CAREFUL! ONLY THE \"Resource Listing\"\nkeys are sure to remain in the Subject: line!\n\n3. Computer graphics FTP site list, by Eric Haines\n4. Mail servers and graphics-oriented BBSes\n9. Plotting packages\n\n[ I'm thinking of making this post bi-weekly. What do you think??? ]\n\n--------------\n\nLines which got changed, have the `#' character in front of them.\nAdded lines are prepended with a `+'\nRemoved lines are just removed. Use 'diff' to locate these changes.\n\n========================================================================\n\nThis text is (C)Copyright 1992, 1993 of Nikolaos C. Fotis. You can copy\nfreely this file, provided you keep this copyright notice intact.\n\nCompiled by Nikolaos (Nick) C. Fotis, e-mail: nfotis@theseas.ntua.gr\n\nPlease contact me for updates,corrections, etc.\n\nDisclaimer: I do not guarantee the accuracy of this document.\nUse it at your own risk.\n\n========================================================================\n\nThis is mainly a guide for computer graphics software.\nI would suggest reading the Comp. Graphics FAQ for image analysis stuff.\n\nIt's entitled: \n (date) comp.graphics Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)\n\n John T. Grieggs is the poster of the\n official comp.graphics FAQ\n\nI have included my comments within braces '[' and ']'.\n\nNikolaos Fotis\n\n========================================================================\n\nContents of the Resource Listing\n================================\n\nPART1:\n------\n0. Places to find the Resource Listing\n1. ARCHIE\n2. Notes\n3. Computer graphics FTP site list, by Eric Haines\n4. Mail servers and graphics-oriented BBSes\n5. Ray-tracing/graphics-related mailing lists.\n6. 3D graphics editors\n a. Public domain, free and shareware systems\n b. Commercial systems\n7. Scene description languages\n8. Solids description formats\n\nPART2:\n------\n\n9. Plotting packages\n10. Image analysis software - Image processing and display\n\nPART3:\n------\n11. Scene generators/geographical data/Maps/Data files\n12. 3D scanners - Digitized 3D Data.\n13. Background imagery/textures/datafiles\n14. Introduction to rendering algorithms\n a. Ray tracing\n b. Z-buffer (depth-buffer)\n c. Others\n15. Where can I find the geometric data for the:\n a. Teapot ?\n b. Space Shuttle ?\n16. Image annotation software\n17. Scientific visualization stuff\n18. Molecular visualization stuff\n19. GIS (Geographical Information Systems software)\n\nFuture additions:\n[Please send me updates/info!]\n\n========================================================================\n\n0. Places to find the Resource Listing\n======================================\n\nThis file is crossposted to comp.graphics, comp.answers and news.answers,\nso if you can't locate it in comp.graphics, you're advised to search in\ncomp.answers or news.answers\n(The latter groups usually are archived in your site. Contact your sysadmin\nfor more info).\n\nThese 3 articles are posted to comp.graphics 3-4 times a month and are kept in\nmany places (see below)\n\n--\n\nMany FAQs, including this one, are available on the archive site\npit-manager.mit.edu (alias rtfm.mit.edu) [18.172.1.27] in the directory\npub/usenet/news.answers. The name under which a FAQ is archived appears\nin the Archive-name line at the top of the article.\nThis FAQ is archived as graphics/resources-list/part[1-3]\n\nThere's a mail server on that machine. You send a e-mail message to\nmail-server@pit-manager.mit.edu containing: help in the Subject: field\n\n--\n\nThe inria-graphlib mail server mirrors this posting (see under the\nSubject 4: Mail servers )\n\n--\n\nThe Resource Listing is accesible through WAIS in the machine\nenuxva.eas.asu.edu (port 8000) under the name graphics-resources-list.\nIt's got a digest-type line before every numbered item for purposes of\nindexing.\n\n--\n\nAnother place that monitors the Listing is the MaasInfo files.\nFor more info contact Robert E. Maas \n\n--\n\nYet another place to search for FAQs in general is the SWITCH\n(Swiss Academic and Research Network) system in Switzerland:\n\ninteractive:\n telnet nic.switch.ch [130.59.1.40], login as \"info\". Move to the\n info_service/Usenet/periodic-postings directory. Search in the\n 00index file by typing \"/\" and the word to look for.\n You may then just read the FAQ in the \"faqs\" directory, or decide\n to fetch it by one of the following methods.\n\nftp:\n login to nic.switch.ch [130.59.1.40] as user anonymous and\n enter your internet-style address after being prompted for a\n password.\n\n\tcd info_service/Usenet/periodic-postings\n\nmail:\n send e-mail to\n\nRFC-822:\n archive-server@nic.switch.ch\nX.400:\n /S=archive-server/OU=nic/O=switch/PRMD=switch/ADMD=arcom/C=ch/\n\nEnter 'help' in the bodypart to receive instructions. No information\nis required in the subject header line.\n\n\n1. ARCHIE\n=========\n\nThe Archie is a service system to locate FTP places for\nrequested files. It's appreciated that you will use Archie\nbefore asking help in the newsgroups.\n\nArchie servers:\n archie.au or 139.130.4.6 (Aussie/NZ)\n archie.funet.fi or 128.214.6.100 (Finland/Eur.)\n archie.th-darmstadt.de or 130.83.128.111 (GER.)\n cs.huji.ac.il or 132.65.6.5 (Israel)\n archie.kuis.kyoto-u.ac.jp or 130.54.20.1 (JAPAN)\n archie.sogang.ac.kr or 163.239.1.11 (Korea)\n archie.ncu.edu.tw or telnet 140.115.19.24 (TWN)\n archie.doc.ic.ac.uk or 146.169.3.7 (UK/Ireland)\n archie.sura.net or 128.167.254.179 (USA [MD])\n archie.unl.edu (password: archie1) (USA [NE])\n archie.ans.net or 147.225.1.2 (USA [NY])\n archie.rutgers.edu or 128.6.18.15 (USA [NJ])\n archie.nz or 130.195.9.4 (New Zealand)\n\nConnect to Archie server with telnet and type \"archie\" as username.\nTo get help type 'help'.\nYou can get 'xarchie' or 'archie', which are clients that call Archie\nwithout the burden of a telnet session.\n'Xarchie' is on the X11.R5 contrib tape, and 'archie' on comp.sources.misc,\nvol. 27.\n\nTo get information on how to use Archie via e-mail, send mail with\nsubject \"help\" to \"archie\" account at any of above sites.\n\n(Note to Janet/PSS users -- the United Kingdom archie site is\naccessible on the Janet host doc.ic.ac.uk [000005102000].\nConnect to it and specify \"archie\" as the host name and \"archie\" as\nthe username.)\n\n==========================================================================\n\n2. Notes\n========\n(Excerpted from the FAQ article)\n\nPlease do *not* post or mail messages saying \"I can't FTP, could\nsomeone mail this to me?\" There are a number of automated mail servers\nthat will send you things like this in response to a message.\n\nThere are a number of sites that archive the Usenet sources newsgroups\nand make them available via an email query system. You send a message\nto an automated server saying something like \"send comp.sources.unix/fbm\",\nand a few hours or days later you get the file in the mail.\n\n==========================================================================\n\n3. Computer graphics FTP site list, by Eric Haines\n==================================================\n\nComputer graphics related FTP sites (and maintainers), 22/04/93\n\tcompiled by Eric Haines, erich@eye.com\n\tand Nick Fotis, nfotis@theseas.ntua.gr\n\nRay-tracers:\n------------\n\nRayShade - a great ray tracer for workstations on up, also for PC, Mac & Amiga.\nPoV - son and successor to DKB trace, written by Compuservers.\n\t(For more questions call Drew Wells --\n\t73767.1244@compuserve.com or Dave Buck -- david_buck@carleton.ca)\nART - ray tracer with a good range of surface types, part of VORT package.\nDKBtrace - another good ray tracer, from all reports; PCs, Mac II,\n\tAmiga, UNIX, VMS (last two with X11 previewer), etc.\nRTrace - Portugese ray tracer, does bicubic patches, CSG, 3D text, etc. etc.\n\tAn MS-DOS version for use with DJGPP DOS extender (GO32) exists also,\n\tas a Mac port.\nVIVID2 - A shareware raytracer for PCs - binary only (286/287). Author:\n\tStephen Coy (coy@ssc-vax.boeing.com). The 386/387 (no source) version\n\tis available to registered users (US$50) direct from the author.\nRAY4 - Steve Hollasch's 4-dimensional ray tracer - renders hyperspheres,\n\thypertetrahedra, hyperplanes, and hyperparallelepipeds (there's\n\ta separate real-time wireframe viewer written in GL called WIRE4 ) .\nMTV,QRT,DBW - yet more ray tracers, some with interesting features.\n\nDistributed/Parallel Raytracers:\n--------------------------------\n\nXDART - A distributed ray-tracer that runs under X11. There are server binaries\n\twhich work only on DECstations, SPARCs, HP Snakes (7x0 series) and NeXT.\n\tThe clients are distributed as binaries and C source.\nInetray - A network version of Rayshade 4.0. Needs Sun RPC 4.0 or newer.\n\tContact Andreas Thurnherr (ant@ips.id.ethz.ch)\nprt, VM_pRAY - parallel ray tracers.\n\nVolume renderers:\n-----------------\n\nVREND - Cornell's Volume Renderer, from Kartch/Devine/Caffey/Warren (FORTRAN).\n\nRadiosity (and diffuse lighting) renderers:\n-------------------------------------------\n\nRadiance - a ray tracer w/radiosity effects, by Greg Ward. Excellent shading\n\tmodels and physically based lighting simulation. Unix/X based, though\n\thas been ported to the Amiga and the PC (386).\nINDIA - An Indian radiosity package based on Radiance.\nSGI_RAD - An interactive radiosity package that runs on SGI machines with a\n\tSpaceball. It includes a house database.\n\tAuthor: Guy Moreillon \nRAD - a simple public-domain radiosity package in C. The solution can be run\n\tstand-alone on any Unix box, but the walk-through requires a SGI 4D.\n\tAuthor: Bernard Kwok \n\nRenderers which are not raytracers, and graphics libraries:\n-----------------------------------------------------------\n\nSIPP - Scan line z-buffer and Phong shading renderer.\n\tNow uses the shadow buffer algorithm.\nTcl-SIPP - a Tcl command interface to the SIPP rendering\n\tprogram. Tcl-SIPP is a set of Tcl commands used to programmed\n\tSIPP without having to write and compile C code.\n\tCommands are used to specify surfaces, objects,\n\tscenes and rendering options.\n\tIt renders either in PPM format or in Utah Raster Toolkit RLE format\n\tor to the photo widget in the Tk-based X11 applications.\n\nVOGLE - graphics learning environment (device portable).\nVOGL - an SGI GL-like library based on VOGLE.\nREND386 - A *fast* polygon renderer for Intel 386s and up. Version 2 on up.\n\t[ It's not photorealistic, but rather a real-time renderer]\nXSHARP21 - Dr. Dobb's Journal PC renderer source code, with budget texture\n\tmapping.\n\nModellers, wireframe viewers:\n-----------------------------\n\nVISION-3D - Mac modeler, can output Radiance & Rayshade files.\nIRIT - A CSG solid modeler, with support for freeform surfaces.\nX3D - A wireframe viewer for X11.\n3DV - 3-D wireframe graphics toolkit, with C source, 3dv objects, other stuff\n\tLook at major PC archives like wuarchive. One such file is 3DKIT1.ZIP\nPV3D - a shareware front end modeler for POVRAY, still in beta test.\n French docs for now, price for registering 250 French Francs. Save disabled.\n Some extra utilities, DXF files for the registered version.\n\nGeometric viewers:\n------------------\n\nSALEM - A GL-based package from Dobkin et al. for exploring mathematical\n\tstructures.\nGEOMVIEW - A GL-based package for looking and interactively manipulating\n3D objects, from Geometry Center at Minnesota.\nXYZ GeoBench -(eXperimental geometrY Zurich) is a workbench for geometric\n\tcomputation for Macintosh computers.\nWIRE4 - GL wireframe previewer for Steve Hollasch's RAY4 (see above)\n\nData Formats and Data Sets for Ray Tracing:\n-------------------------------------------\n\nSPD - a set of procedural databases for testing ray tracers.\nNFF - simplistic file format used by SPD.\nOFF - another file format.\nP3D - a lispy file format.\nTDDD - Imagine (3D modeler) format, has converters for RayShade, NFF, OFF, etc.\n\tAlso includes a nice postscript object displayer. Some GREAT models.\nTTDDDLIB - converts to/from TDDD/TTDDD, OFF, NFF, Rayshade 4.0, Imagine,\n\tand vort 3d objects. Also outputs Framemaker MIF files and isometric\n\tviews in Postscript. Registered users get a TeX PK font converter and\n\ta superquadric surfaces generator.\n\tGlenn Lewis \n\t[Note : TTDDDLIB is also known as T3DLIB]\nCHVRTD - Chapel Hill Volume Rendering Test Datasets, includes volume sets for\n\ttwo heads, a brain, a knee, electron density maps for RNA and others.\n\nWritten Material on Rendering:\n------------------------------\n\nRT News - collections of articles on ray tracing.\nRT bib - references to articles on ray tracing in \"refer\" format.\nRad bib - references to articles on radiosity (global illumination).\nSpeer RT bib - Rick Speer's cross-referenced RT bib, in postscript.\nRT abstracts - collection by Tom Wilson of abstracts of many RT articles.\nPaper bank project - various technical papers in electronic form. Contact\n\tJuhana Kouhia \nOnline Bibliography Project :\n The ACM SIGGRAPH Online Bibliography Project is a database of \n over 15,000 unique computer graphics and computational geometry\n references in BibTeX format, available to the computer graphics\n community as a research and educational resource.\n\n The database is located at \"siggraph.org\". Users may download \n the BibTeX files via FTP and peruse them offline, or telnet to\n \"siggraph.org\" and log in as \"biblio\" and interactively search\n the database for entries of interest, by keyword.\n For the people without Internet access, there's also an e-mail\n server. Send mail to\n\n archive-server@siggraph.org\n\n and in the subject or the body of the message include the message send\n followed by the topic and subtopic you wish. A good place to start is\n with the command\n send index\n which will give you an up-to-date list of available information.\n\n Additions/corrections/suggestions may be directed to the admin,\n \"bibadmin@siggraph.org\".\n\nImage Manipulation Libraries:\n-----------------------------\n\nUtah Raster Toolkit - nice image manipulation tools.\nPBMPLUS - a great package for image conversion and manipulation.\nLIBTIFF - library for reading/writing TIFF images.\nImageMagick - X11 package for display and interactive manipulation\n\tof images. Uses its own format (MIFF), and includes some converters.\nxv - X-based image display, manipulation, and format converter.\nxloadimage, xli - displays various formats on an X11 screen.\nKhoros - a huge, excellent system for image processing, with a visual\n\tprogramming interface and much much more. Uses X windows.\nFBM - another set of image manipulation tools, somewhat old now.\nImg - image manipulation, displays on X11 screen, a bit old now.\nxflick - Plays .FLI animation under X11\nXAnim - plays any resolution FLI along with GIF's(including GIF89a animation\n\textensions), DL's and Amiga IFF animations(3,5,J,l) and IFF\n\tpictures(including HAM,EHB and color cycling)\nSDSC - SDSC Image Tools package (San Diego Supercomputing Center)\n\tfor image manipulation and conversion\nCLRpaint - A 24-bit paint program for SGI 24bit workstations and 8bit Indigos.\n\nLibraries with code for graphics:\n---------------------------------\n\nGraphics Gems I,II,III - code from the ever so useful books.\nspline-patch.tar.Z - spline patch ray intersection routines by Sean Graves\nkaleido - Computation and 3D Display of Uniform Polyhedra. Mirrored in\n\twuarchive. This package computes (and displays) the metrical\n\tproperties of 75 polyhedra. Author: Dr. Zvi Har'El,\n\te-mail: rl@gauss.technion.ac.il\n\n(*) means site is an \"official\" distributor, so is most up to date.\n\n\nNORTH AMERICA (please look for things on your own continent first...):\n-------------\n\nwuarchive.wustl.edu [128.252.135.4]: /graphics/graphics - get CONTENTS file\n\tfor a roadmap. /graphics/graphics/objects/TDDD - *the TTDDD objects\n\tand converters*, /mirrors/unix-c/graphics - Rayshade ray tracer, MTV\n\tray tracer, Vort ray tracer, FBM, PBMPLUS, popi, Utah raster toolkit.\n\t/mirrors/msdos/graphics - DKB ray tracer, FLI RayTracker demos.\n\t/pub/rad.tar.Z - *SGI_RAD*, /graphics/graphics/radiosity - Radiance\n\tand Indian radiosity package. /msdos/ddjmag/ddj9209.zip - version 21\n\tof Xsharp, with fast texture mapping. There's lots more, including\n\tbibs, Graphics Gems I & II code, OFF, RTN, Radiance, NFF, SIPP, spline\n\tpatch intersection routines, textbook errata, source code from Roy\n\tHall's book \"Illumination and Color in Computer Generated Imagery\", etc\n\tgraphics/graphics/packages/kaleido - *kaleido*\n\tGeorge Kyriazis \n\nprinceton.edu [128.112.128.1]: /pub/Graphics (note capital \"G\") - *Rayshade\n\t4.0 ray tracer (and separate 387 executable)*, *color quantization\n\tcode*, *SPD*, *RT News*, *Wilson's RT abstracts*, \"RT bib*, *Utah\n\tRaster Toolkit*, newer FBM, *Graphics Gems I, II & III code*.\n\t/pub/graphics directory - *SALEM* and other stuff.\n\tCraig Kolb \n\t[replaces weedeater.math.yale.edu - note the capital \"G\" in\n\tpub/Graphics] Because there's a trouble with princeton's incoming\n\tarea, you can upload Rayshade-specific stuff to\n\tweedeater.math.yale.edu [128.36.23.17]\n\nalfred.ccs.carleton.ca [134.117.1.1]: /pub/dkbtrace - *DKB ray tracer*,\n\t/pub/pov-ray/POV-Ray1.0 - *PVRay Compuserve group ray tracer (or PoV)*.\n\tDavid Buck \n\navalon.chinalake.navy.mil [129.131.31.11]: 3D objects (multiple formats),\n\tutilities, file format documents.\n\tThis site was created to be a 3D object \"repository\" for the net.\n\tFrancisco X DeJesus \n\nomicron.cs.unc.edu [152.2.128.159]: pub/softlab/CHVRTD - Chapel Hill\n\tVolume Rendering Test Datasets.\n\nftp.mv.com [192.80.84.1]: - Official DDJ FTP repository.\n\t*XSHARP*\n\npeipa.essex.ac.uk [155.245.115.161]: the Pilot European Image Processing\n\tArchive; in a directory ipa/synth or something like that, there are\n\timage synthesis packages.\n\tAdrian Clarke \n\nbarkley.berkeley.edu [128.32.142.237] : tcl/extensions/tsipp3.0b.tar.Z -\n\t*Tcl-SIPP*\n\tMark Diekhans \n\nacs.cps.msu.edu [35.8.56.90]: pub/sass - *X window fonts converter into\n\tRayshade 3.0 polygons*, Rayshade animation tool(s).\n\tRon Sass \n\nhobbes.lbl.gov [128.3.12.38]: *Radiance* ray trace/radiosity package.\n\tGreg Ward \n\ngeom.umn.edu [128.101.25.31] : pub/geomview - *GEOMVIEW*\n\tContact (for GEOMVIEW): software@geom.umn.edu\n\nftp.arc.umn.edu [137.66.130.11] : pub/gvl.tar.Z - the latest version of Bob,\n\tIcol and Raz. Source, a manual, man pages, and binaries for\n\tIRIX 4.0.5 are included (Bob is a real time volume renderer)\n\tpub/ contains also many volume datasets.\n\tKen Chin-Purcell \n\nftp.kpc.com [144.52.120.9] : /pub/graphics/holl91 - Steve Hollasch's\n\tThesis, /pub/graphics/ray4 - *RAY4*, /pub/graphics/wire4 - *WIRE4*.\n\t/pub/mirror/avalon - mirror of avalon's 3D objects repository.\n\tSteve Hollasch \n\nswedishchef.lerc.nasa.gov [139.88.54.33] : programs/hollasch-4d - RAY4,\n\tSGI Explorer modules and Postscript manual, etc.\n\nzamenhof.cs.rice.edu [128.42.1.75] : pub/graphics.formats - Various electronic\n\tdocuments about many object and image formats.\n\tMark Hall \n\twill apparently no longer be maintaining it, see ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu.\n\nrascal.ics.utexas.edu [128.83.144.1]: /misc/mac/inqueue - VISION-3D facet\n\tbased modeller, can output RayShade and Radiance files.\n\nftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.20.50] : misc/file.formats/graphics.formats -\n\tcontains various image- and object-format descriptions. Many SciVi\n\ttools in various directories, e.g. SGI/Alpha-shape/Alvis-1.0.tar.Z -\n\t3D alpha-shape visualizer (SGI machines only),\n\tSGI/Polyview3.0/polyview.Z - interactive visualization and analysis of\n\t3D geometrical structures.\n\tQuincey Koziol \n\ntucana.noao.edu [140.252.1.1] : /iraf - the IRAF astronomy package\n\nftp.ipl.rpi.edu [128.113.14.50]: sigma/erich - SPD images and Haines thesis\n\timages. pub/images - various 24 and 8 bit image stills and sequences.\n\tKevin Martin \n\nftp.psc.edu [128.182.66.148]: pub/p3d - p3d_2_0.tar P3D lispy scene\n\tlanguage & renderers. Joel Welling \n\nftp.ee.lbl.gov [128.3.254.68]: *pbmplus.tar.Z*, RayShade data files.\n\tJef Poskanzer \n\ngeorge.lbl.gov [128.3.196.93]: pub/ccs-lib/ccs.tar.Z - *CCS (Complex\n\tConversion System), a standard software interface for image processing*\n\nhanauma.stanford.edu [36.51.0.16]: /pub/graphics/Comp.graphics - best of\n\tcomp.graphics (very extensive), ray-tracers - DBW, MTV, QRT, and more.\n\tJoe Dellinger \n\nftp.uu.net [192.48.96.2]: /graphics - *IRIT*, RT News back issues (not\n\tcomplete), NURBS models, other graphics related material.\n\t/graphics/jpeg/jpegsrc.v?.tar.Z - Independent JPEG Group package for\n\treading and writing JPEG files.\n\nfreebie.engin.umich.edu [141.212.68.23]: *Utah Raster Toolkit*,\n\tSpencer Thomas \n\nexport.lcs.mit.edu [18.24.0.12] : /contrib - pbmplus, Image Magick, xloadimage,\n\txli, xv, Img, lots more. /pub/R5untarred/mit/demos/gpc - NCGA Graphics\n\tPerformance Characterization (GPC) Suite.\n\nlife.pawl.rpi.edu [128.113.10.2]: /pub/ray - *Kyriazis stochastic Ray Tracer*.\n\tGeorge Kyriazis \n\ncs.utah.edu [128.110.4.21]: /pub - Utah raster toolkit, *NURBS databases*.\n\tJamie Painter \n\ngatekeeper.dec.com [16.1.0.2]: /pub/DEC/off.tar.Z - *OFF models*,\n\tAlso GPC Benchmark files (planned, but not checked).\n\tRandi Rost \n\nhubcap.clemson.edu [130.127.8.1]: /pub/amiga/incoming/imagine - stuff for the\n\tAmiga Imagine & Turbo Silver ray tracers. /pub/amiga/TTDDDLIB -\n\t*TTDDDLIB* /pub/amiga/incoming/imagine/objects - MANY objects.\n\tGlenn Lewis \n\npprg.eece.unm.edu [129.24.24.10]: /pub/khoros - *Khoros image processing\n\tpackage (huge, but great)*.\n\tDanielle Argiro \n\nexpo.lcs.mit.edu [18.30.0.212]: contrib - *PBMPLUS portable bitmap package*,\n\t*poskbitmaptars bitmap collection*, *Raveling Img*, xloadimage. Jef\n\tPoskanzer \n\nvenera.isi.edu [128.9.0.32]: */pub/Img.tar.z and img.tar.z - some image\n\tmanipulation*, /pub/images - RGB separation photos.\n\tPaul Raveling \n\nucsd.edu [128.54.16.1]: /graphics - utah rle toolkit, pbmplus, fbm,\n\tdatabases, MTV, DBW and other ray tracers, world map, other stuff.\n\tNot updated much recently.\n\ncastlab.engr.wisc.edu [128.104.52.10]: /pub/x3d.2.2.tar.Z - *X3D*\n\t/pub/xdart.1.1.* - *XDART*\n\tMark Spychalla \n\nsgi.com [192.48.153.1]: /graphics/tiff - TIFF 6.0 spec & *LIBTIFF* software\n\tand pics. Also much SGI- and GL-related stuff (e.g. OpenGL manuals)\n\tSam Leffler \n\t[supercedes okeeffe.berkeley.edu for the LIBTIFF stuff]\n\nsurya.waterloo.edu [129.97.129.72]: /graphics - FBM, ray tracers\n\nftp.sdsc.edu [132.249.20.22]: /sdscpub - *SDSC*\n\nftp.brl.mil [128.63.16.158]: /brl-cad - information on how to get the\n\tBRL CAD package & ray tracer. /images - various test images.\n\tA texture library has also begun here.\n\tLee A. Butler \n\ncicero.cs.umass.edu [128.119.40.189]: /texture_temp - 512x512 grayscale\n\tBrodatz textures,\n\tfrom Julien Flack .\n\nkarazm.math.uh.edu [129.7.7.6]: pub/Graphics/rtabs.shar.12.90.Z - *Wilson's\n\tRT abstracts*, VM_pRAY.\n\tJ. Eric Townsend \n\nftp.pitt.edu [130.49.253.1]: /users/qralston/images - 24 bit image archive\n\t(small). James Ralston Crawford \n\nftp.tc.cornell.edu [128.84.201.1]: /pub/vis - *VREND*\n\nsunee.waterloo.edu [129.97.50.50]: /pub/raytracers - vivid, *REND386*\n\t[or sunee.uwaterloo.ca]\n\narchive.umich.edu [141.211.164.153]: /msdos/graphics - PC graphics stuff.\n\t/msdos/graphics/raytrace - VIVID2.\n\napple.apple.com [130.43.2.2?]: /pub/ArchiveVol2/prt.\n\nresearch.att.com [192.20.225.2]: /netlib/graphics - *SPD package*, ~/polyhedra -\n\t*polyhedra databases*. (If you don't have FTP, use the netlib\n\tautomatic mail replier: UUCP - research!netlib, Internet -\n\tnetlib@ornl.gov. Send one line message \"send index\" for more info,\n\t\"send haines from graphics\" to get the SPD)\n\nsiggraph.org [128.248.245.250]: SIGGRAPH archive site.\n\tpublications - *Online Bibliography Project*, Conference proceedings\n\tin various electronic formats (papers, panels), SIGGRAPH Video Review\n\tinformation and order forms.\n\tOther stuff in various directories.\n\tAutomatic mailer is archive-server@siggraph.org (\"send index\").\n\nftp.cs.unc.edu [128.109.136.159]: pub/reaction_diffusion - Greg Turk's work on\n\treaction-diffusion textures, X windows code (SIGGRAPH '91)\n\navs.ncsc.org [128.109.178.23]: ~ftp/VolVis92 - Volume datasets from the\n\tBoston Workshop on Volume Visualization '92. This site is also the\n\tInternational AVS Center.\n\tTerry Myerson \n\nuvacs.cs.virginia.edu [128.143.8.100]: pub/suit/demo/{sparc,dec,etc} - SUIT\n\t(Simple User Interface Toolkit). \"finger suit@uvacs.cs.virginia.edu\"\n\tto get detailed instructions.\n\nnexus.yorku.ca [130.63.9.66]: /pub/reports/Radiosity_code.tar.Z - *RAD*\n\t/pub/reports/Radiosity_thesis.ps.Z - *RAD MSc. Thesis*\n\t[This site will be changed to ftp.yorku.ca in the near future]\n\nmilton.u.washington.edu [128.95.136.1] - ~ftp/public/veos - VEOS Virtual\n\tReality and distributed applications prototyping environment\n\tfor Unix. Veos Software Support : veos-support@hitl.washington.edu\n oldpublic/fly - FLY! 3D Visualization Software demo.\n That package is built for \"fly-throughs\" from various datasets in\n near real-time. There are binaries for many platforms.\n\tAlso, much other Virtual Reality stuff.\n\nzug.csmil.umich.edu [141.211.184.2]: X-Xpecs 3D files (an LCD glass shutter\n\tfor Amiga computers - great for VR stuff!)\n\nsugrfx.acs.syr.edu [128.230.24.1]: Various stereo-pair images.\n[ Has closed down :-( ]\n\nsunsite.unc.edu [152.2.22.81]: /pub/academic/computer-science/virtual-reality -\n\tFinal copy of the sugrfx.acs.syr.edu archive that ceased to exist.\n\tIt contains Powerglove code, VR papers, 3D images and IRC research\n\tmaterial.\n\tJonathan Magid \n\narchive.cis.ohio-state.edu [128.146.8.52]: pub/siggraph92 - Code for\n\tSiggraph '92 Course 23 (Procedural Modeling and Rendering Techniques)\n\tDr. David S. Ebert \n\nlyapunov.ucsd.edu [132.239.86.10]: This machine is considered the\n\trepository for preprints and programs for nonlinear dynamics,\n\tsignal processing, and related subjects (and fractals, of course!)\n\tMatt Kennel \n\ncod.nosc.mil [128.49.16.5]: /pub/grid.{ps,tex,ascii} - a short survey of\n\tmethods to interpolate and contour bivariate data\n\nics.uci.edu [128.195.1.1]: /honig --- Various stereo-pair images,\n\tmovie.c - animates a movie on an X display (8-bit and mono) with\n\tdigital subtraction.\n\ntaurus.cs.nps.navy.mil [131.120.1.13]: pub/dabro/cyberware_demo.tar.Z - Human\n\thead data\n\npioneer.unm.edu [129.24.9.217]: pub/texture_maps - Hans du Buf's grayscale\n\ttest textures (aerial swatches, Brodatz textures, synthetic swatches).\n\tSpace & planetary image repository. Provides access to >150 CD-ROMS\n\twith data/images (3 on-line at a time).\n pub/info/beginner-info - here you should start browsing.\n Colby Kraybill .\n\ncs.brown.edu [128.148.33.66] : *SRGP/SPHIGS* . For more info on SRGP/SPHIGS:\n mail -s 'software-distribution' graphtext@cs.brown.edu\n\npdb.pdb.bnl.gov [130.199.144.1] has data about various organic molecules,\n bonds between the different atoms, etc.\n Atomic coordinates (and a load of other stuff) are contained in the\n \"*.ent\" files, but the actual atomic dimemsions seem to be missing.\n You could convert these data to PoV, rayshade, etc.\n\nbiome.bio.ns.ca [142.2.20.2] : /pub/art - some Renoir paintings,\n Escher's pictures, etc.\n\nic16.ee.umanitoba.ca [] : /specmark - sample set of images from the\n `Images from the Edge' CD-ROM (images of atomic landscapes, advanced\n semiconductors, superconductors and experimental surface\n chemistry among others). Contact ruskin@ee.umanitoba.ca\n\nexplorer.dgp.toronto.edu [128.100.1.129] : pub/sgi/clrpaint - *CLRpaint*\n pub/sgi/clrview.* - CLRview, a tool that aids in visualization\n of GIS datasets in may formats like DXF, DEM, Arc/Info, etc.\n\names.arc.nasa.gov [128.102.18.3]: pub/SPACE/CDROM - images from Magellan\n and Viking missions etc. Get pub/SPACE/Index first.\n pub/SPACELINK has most of the SpaceLink service data (see below)\n e-mail server available: send mail to archive-server@ames.arc.nasa.gov\n (or ames!archive-server) with subject:\"help\"\n or \"send SPACE Index\" (without the quotes!)\n Peter Yee \n\npubinfo.jpl.nasa.gov [128.149.6.2]: images, other data, etc. from JPL\n missions. Modem access at (818)-354-1333 (no parity, 8 data bits, 1\n stop bit).\n newsdesk@jplpost.jpl.nasa.gov or phone (818)-354-7170\n\nspacelink.msfc.nasa.gov [128.158.13.250] (passwd:guest) : space graphics\n and GIF images from NASA's planetary probes and the Hubble Telescope.\n Main function is support for teachers (you can telnet also to this\n site). Dial up access: (205)-895-0028 (300/1200/2400/9600(V.32) baud,\n 8 bits, no parity, 1 stop bit).\n\nstsci.edu [130.167.1.2] : Hubble Space Telescope stuff (images and other\n data). Read the README first!\n Pete Reppert or Chris O'Dea \n\npit-manager.mit.edu [18.172.1.27]: /pub/usenet/news.answers - the land of\n\tFAQs. graphics and pictures directories of particular interest.\n\t[Also available from mail-server@pit-manager.mit.edu by sending a mail\n\tmessage containing: help]\n\nUUCP archive: avatar - RT News back issues. For details, write Kory Hamzeh\n\t\n\n\nEUROPE:\n-------\n\nnic.funet.fi [128.214.6.100]: *pub/sci/papers - *Paper bank project,\n\tincluding Pete Shirley's entire thesis (with pics)*, *Wilson's RT\n\tabstracts*, pub/misc/CIA_WorldMap - CIA world data bank,\n\tcomp.graphics.research archive, *India*, and much, much more.\n\tJuhana Kouhia \n\ndasun2.epfl.ch [128.178.62.2]: Radiance. Good for European sites, but\n\tdoesn't carry the add-ons that are available for Radiance.\n\nisy.liu.se [130.236.1.3]: pub/sipp/sipp-3.0.tar.Z - *SIPP* scan line z-buffer\n\tand Phong shading renderer. Jonas Yngvesson \n\nirisa.fr [131.254.2.3]: */iPSC2/VM_pRAY ray tracer*, SPD, /NFF - many non-SPD\n\tNFF format scenes, RayShade data files. Didier Badouel\n\t [may have disappeared]\n\nphoenix.oulu.fi [130.231.240.17]: *FLI RayTracker animation files (PC VGA) -\n\talso big .FLIs (640*480)* *RayScene demos* [Americans: check wuarchive\n\tfirst]. More animations to come. Jari Kahkonen\n\t\n\njyu.fi [128.214.7.5]: /pub/graphics/ray-traces - many ray tracers, including\n\tVM_pRAY, DBW, DKB, MTV, QRT, RayShade, some RT News, NFF files. Jari\n\tToivanen \n\ngarbo.uwasa.fi [128.214.87.1]: Much PC stuff, etc., /pc/source/contour.f -\n\tFORTRAN program to contour scattered data using linear triangle-based\n\tinterpolation\n\nasterix.inescn.pt [192.35.246.17]: pub/RTrace - *RTrace* nffutils.tar.Z (NFF\n\tutilities for RTrace), medical data (CAT, etc.) converters to NFF,\n\tAutocad to NFF Autolisp code, AUTOCAD 11 to SCN (RTrace's language)\n\tconverter and other goodies. Antonio Costa (acc@asterix.inescn.pt)\n\nvega.hut.fi [128.214.3.82]: /graphics - RTN archive, ray tracers (MTV, QRT,\n\tothers), NFF, some models.\n[ It was shut down months ago , check under nic.funet.fi -- nfotis ]\n\nsun4nl.nluug.nl [192.16.202.2]: /pub/graphics/raytrace - DBW.microray, MTV, etc\n\nunix.hensa.ac.uk [] : misc/unix/ralcgm/ralcgm.tar.Z - CGM viewer and\n converter.\n There's an e-mail server also - mail to archive@unix.hensa.ac.uk\n with the message body \"send misc/unix/ralcgm/ralcgm.tar.Z\"\n\nmaeglin.mt.luth.se [130.240.0.25]: graphics/raytracing - prt, others, ~/Doc -\n\t*Wilson's RT abstracts*, Vivid.\n\nftp.fu-berlin.de [130.20.225.2]: /pub/unix/graphics/rayshade4.0/inputs -\n\taq.tar.Z is RayShade aquarium [Americans: check princeton.edu first).\n\tHeiko Schlichting \n\nmaggia.ethz.ch [129.132.17.1]: pub/inetray - *Inetray* and Sun RPC 4.0 code\n\tAndreas Thurnherr \n\nosgiliath.id.dth.dk [129.142.65.24]: /pub/amiga/graphics/Radiance - *Amiga\n\tport of Radiance 2.0*. Per Bojsen \n\nftp.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de [134.106.1.9] : *PoV raytracer*\n Mirrored in wuarchive, has many goods for PoV.\n\tpub/dkbtrace/incoming/polyray - Polyray raytracer\n pub/dkbtrace/incoming/pv3d* - *PV3D*\n\nftp.uni-kl.de [131.246.9.95]: /pub/amiga/raytracing/imagine - mirror of\n\tthe hubcap Imagine files.\n\nneptune.inf.ethz.ch [129.132.101.33]: XYZ - *XYZ GeoBench*\n\tPeter Schorn \n\niamsun.unibe.ch [130.92.64.10]: /Graphics/graphtal* - a L-system interpreter.\n\tChristoph Streit \n\namiga.physik.unizh.ch [130.60.80.80]: /amiga/gfx - Graphics stuff\n\tfor the Amiga computer.\n\nstesis.hq.eso.org [134.171.8.100]: on-line access to a huge astronomical\n database. (login:starcat;no passwd)\n DECnet:STESIS (It's the Space Telescope European Coordination Facility)\n Benoit Pirenne , phone +49 89 320 06 433\n\n\nMIDDLE EAST\n-----------\n\ngauss.technion.ac.il [132.68.112.60]: *kaleida*\n\n\nAUSTRALIA:\n----------\n\ngondwana.ecr.mu.oz.au [128.250.70.62]: pub - *VORT(ART) ray tracer*, *VOGLE*,\n\tWilson's ray tracing abstracts, /pub/contrib/artscenes (ART scenes from\n\tItaly), pub/images/haines - Haines thesis images, Graphics Gems code,\n\tSPD, NFF & OFF databases, NFF and OFF previewers, plus some 8- and\n\t24bit images and lots of other stuff. pub/rad.tar.Z - *SGI_RAD*\n\tBernie Kirby \n\nmunnari.oz.au [128.250.1.21]: pub/graphics/vort.tar.Z - *VORT (ART) 2.1 CSG and\n\talgebraic surface ray tracer*, *VOGLE*, /pub - DBW, pbmplus. /graphics\n\t- room.tar.Z (ART scenes from Italy).\n\tDavid Hook \n\nmarsh.cs.curtin.edu.au [134.7.1.1]: pub/graphics/bibliography/Facial_Animation,\n\tpub/graphics/bibliography/Morph, pub/graphics/bibliography/UI -\n\tstuff about Facial animation, Morphing and User Interfaces.\n\tpub/fascia - Fred Parke's fascia program.\n\tValerie Hall \n\n\nOCEANIA - ASIA:\n---------------\n\n#ccu1.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.3.1]: ftp/mac/architec - *VISION-3D facet\n\tbased modeller, can output RayShade files*. Many other neat things\n#\tfor Macs. Paul Bourke \n+[ For users outside NZ - go to wuarchive.wustl.edu, directory\n+ /mirrors/architec ]\n\nscslwide.sony.co.jp [133.138.199.1]: ftp2/SGI/Facial-Animation - Steve Franks\n\tsite for facial animation.\n \tSteve Franks \n\n\n4. Mail servers and graphics-oriented BBSes\n===========================================\n\nPlease check first with the FTP places above, with archie's help.\nDon't overuse mail servers.\n\nThere are some troubles with wrong return addresses. Many of these\nmail servers have a command like\n path a_valid_return_e-mail_address\nto get a hint for sending back to you stuff.\n\nDEC's FTPMAIL\n-------------\n Send a one-line message to ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com WITHOUT a Subject: field,\n and having a line containing the word 'help'.\n You should get back a message detailing the relevant procedures you\n must follow in order to get the files you want.\n\n Note that the \"reply\" or \"answer\" command in your mailer will not work\n for this message or any other mail you receive from FTPMAIL. To send\n requests to FTPMAIL, send an original mail message, not a reply.\n Complaints should be sent to the ftpmail-request@uucp-gw-2.pa.dec.com\n address rather than to postmaster, since DECWRL's postmaster is not\n responsible for fixing ftpmail problems.\n\nBITFTP\n------\n For BITNET sites ONLY, there's BITFTP@PUCC.\n Send a one-line 'help' message to this address for more info.\n\n\n+RED\n+---\n+ RED - Listserv Redirector is essentially a mail server.\n+ The Server Sites that are available are:\n+\n+ Location EARN/BITNET Internet\n+ -------------- ---------------- -------------------\n+ In Turkey: TRICKLE@TREARN TRICKLE@EGE.EDU.TR\n+ In Denmark: TRICKLE@DKTC11\n+ In Italy: TRICKLE@IMIPOLI\n+ In Belgium: TRICKLE@BANUFS11 TRICKLE@UFSIA.AC.BE\n+ In Austria: TRICKLE@AWIWUW11\n+ In Germany: TRICKLE@DS0RUS1I TRICKLE@RUSVM1.RUS.UNI-STUTTGART.DE\n+ In Israel: TRICKLE@TAUNIVM TRICKLE@VM.TAU.AC.IL\n+ In Netherlands: TRICKLE@HEARN TRICKLE@HEARN.NIC.SURFNET.NL\n+ In France: TRICKLE@FRMOP11 TRICKLE@FRMOP11.CNUSC.FR\n+ In Colombia: TRICKLE@UNALCOL TRICKLE@UNALCOL.UNAL.EDU.CO\n+ In Taiwan: TRICKLE@TWNMOE10 TRICKLE@TWNMOE10.EDU.TW\n+\n+ You are urged to use the one that is closer to your location.\n+ Send a message to one of these containing the body\n+\n+ /HELP\n+\n+ and you'll get more instructions.\n\n\nLightwave 3D mail based file-server\n-----------------------------------\n A mail based file server for 3D objects, 24bit JPEG images, GIF images\n and image maps is now online for all those with Internet mail access.\n The server is the official archive site for the Lightwave 3D mail-list\n and contains many PD and Shareware graphics utilities for\n several computer platforms including Amiga, Atari, IBM and Macintosh.\n\n The server resides on a BBS called \"The Graphics BBS\". The BBS is\n operational 24 hours a day 7 days a week at the phone number of +1\n 908/469-0049. It has upgraded its modem to a Hayes Ultra 144\n V.32bis/V.42bis, which has speeds from 300bps up to 38,400bps.\n\n If you would like to submit objects, scenes or images to the server,\n please pack, uuencode and then mail the files to the address:\n server@bobsbox.rent.com.\n\n For information on obtaining files from the server send a mail message\n to the address file-server@graphics.rent.com with the following in\n the body of the message:\n HELP\n /DIR\n And a help file describing how to use the server and a complete\n directory listing will be sent to you via mail.\n\n[ Now it includes the Cyberware head and shouders in TTDDD format! Check it\n out, only if you can't use FTP! -- nfotis ]\n\nINRIA-GRAPHLIB\n--------------\n Pierre Jancene and Sabine Coquillart launched the inria-graphlib mail\n server a few months ago.\n\n echo help | mail inria-graphlib@inria.fr\n\n will give you a quick summary of what inria-graphlib contains and \n how to browse among its files.\n\n echo send contents | mail inria-graphlib@inria.fr\n\n will return the extended summary.\n\n As an other example :\n\n echo send cgrl from Misc | mail inria-graphlib@inria.fr\n\n will return the Computer Graphics Resource Listing mirrored from\n comp.graphics.\n\nBBSes\n-----\n There are many BBSes that store datafiles, etc.etc., but a guide to these\n is beyond the scope of this Listing (and the resources of the author!)\n If you can point to me Internet- or mail- accessible BBSes that carry\n interesting stuff, send me info!\n\n\n Studio Amiga is a 3D modelling and ray tracing specific BBS, (817) 467-3658.\n 24 hours, 105 Meg online.\n--\nFrom Jeff Walkup :\n \"The Castle\" 415/355-2396 (14.4K/v.32bis/v.42/v.42bis/MNP)\n (In Pacifica, dang close to San Francisco, California, USA)\n The new-user password is: \"TAO\".\n \n [J]oin base #2; The Castle G/FX, Anim, Video, 3D S.I.G., of which\n I am the SIG-Op, \"Lazerus\".\n--\n Bob Lindabury operates a BBS (see above the entry for \"The Graphics BBS\")\n--\n'You Can Call Me Ray' ray tracing related BBS in Chicago suburbs (708-358-5611)\n or (708-358-8721)\n--\n Digital Pixel (Sysop: Mark Ng ) is based at\n Toronto, Ontario, Canada.\n \n Phone : (416) 298 1487\n Storage space: 330 megs\n Modem type: 14.4k baud,16.8k (Zyxel) , v32bis ,v32, mnp 5\n\n Access Fee: none.. (free)\n System supported : DOS, OS/2, Amiga, Mac. \n Netmail: Currently no echo mail.\n Topics: Raytracing, Fractals, Graphics programming, CAD, Any Comp.\n Graphics related \n\n--\nFrom: David Tiberio \n\n Amiga Graphics BBS (516) 473-6351 in Long Island, New York,\n running 24 hours at 14.4k v.32bis, with 157 megs on line.\n We also subscribe to 9 mailing lists, of which 5 originate\n from our BBS, with 3 more to be added soon. These include:\n\n Lightwave, Imagine, Real 3D (ray tracing)\n\n Database files include:\n Imagine 3D objects, 3D renderings, scalable fonts, music\n modules, sound samples, demos, animations, utilities,\n text databases, and pending Lightwave 3D objects.\n--\nThe Graphics Alternative\n\n The Graphics Alternative is in El Cerrito, CA., running 24 hours a\n day at 14.4k HST/v.32bis, with 642MB online and a 1300+ user base.\n TGA runs two nodes, node 1 (510) 524-2780 is for public access and\n includes a free 90 day trial subscription. TGA is the West Coast\n Host for PCGnet, The Profesional CAD and Graphics Network, supporting\n nodes across the Continental U.S., Alaska, New Zealand, Australia,\n France and the UK.\n \n TGA's file database includes MS-DOS executables for POV, Vivid,\n RTrace, Rayshade, Polyray, and others. TGA also has numerous\n graphics utilities, viewers, and conversion utilities. Registered\n Vivid users can also download the latest Vivid aeta code from a\n special Vivid conference.\n\n--\nFrom: Scott Bethke \n\nThe Intersection BBS, 410-250-7149.\n\n This BBS Is dedicated to supporting 3D Animators.The system is provided\n FREE OF CHARGE, and is NOT Commercialized in ANYWAY.\n Users are given FULL Access on the first call.\n\nFeatures: Usenet NEWS & Internet Mail, Fidonet Echo's & Netmail,\n\t200 Megs online, V.32bis/V.42bis Modem.\n\nPlatforms of interest: Amiga & The VideoToaster, Macintosh, Ms-Dos,\n\tUnix Workstations (Sun, SGI, etc), Atari-ST.\n--\nFrom: Alfonso Hermida :\n\n Pi Square BBS (301)725-9080 in Maryland. It supports raytracers such as POV\n and VIVID. The BBS runs off a 486/33Mhz, 100Megs hard drive and CD ROM.\n Now it runs on 1200-2400bps (this will change soon)\n\n Topics: graphics programming, animation,raytracing,programming (general)\n--\nFrom: Lynn Falkow :\n\n Vertech Design's GRAPHIC CONNECTION. (503) 591-8412 in Portland, Oregon.\n V.32/V.42bis.\n\n The BBS, aside from carrying typical BBS services like message bases\n ( all topic specific ) and files ( CAD and graphics related -- hundreds\n of megabytes ), also offers material texture files that are full color,\n seamlessly tiling, photo-realistic images. There are samples available\n to first time callers. The BBS is a subscription system although callers\n have 2 hours before they must subscribe, and there are several subscription\n rates available. People interested in materials can subscribe to the\n library in addition to a basic subscription rate, and can use their\n purchased time to download whichever materials they wish.\n\n==========================================================================\n\n5. Ray-tracing/graphics-related mailing lists\n=============================================\n\nImagine\n-------\n Modeling and animation system for the Amiga:\n send subscription requests to Imagine-request@email.sp.paramax.com\n send material to Imagine@email.sp.paramax.com\n (Dave Wickard has substituted Steve Worley in the maintenance of\n the mailing list) - PLEASE note that the unisys.com address is\n NO longer valid!!!\n\nLightwave\n---------\n (for the Amiga. It's part of Newtek's Video Toaster):\n send subscription requests to lightwave-request@bobsbox.rent.com\n send material to lightwave@bobsbox.rent.com\n (Bob Lindabury)\n\nToaster\n-------\n send subscription requests to listserv@karazm.math.uh.edu with a *body* of:\n subscribe toaster-list\n\nReal 3D\n-------\n Another modeling and animation system for the Amiga:\n To subscribe, send a mail containing the body\n\n subscribe real3d-l \n\n to listserv@gu.uwa.edu.au\n\nRayshade\n--------\n send subscription requests to rayshade-request@cs.princeton.edu\n send material to rayshade-users@cs.princeton.edu\n (Craig Kolb)\n\nAlladin 4D for the Amiga\n----------\n send subscription requests to subscribe@xamiga.linet.org\n\n and in the body of the message write\n\n #Alladin 4D username@domain\n\nRadiance\n--------\n Greg Ward, the author, sends to registered (via e-mail) users digests of\n his correspodence with them, notes about fixes, updates, etc.\n His address is: gjward@lbl.gov\n\nREND386\n-------\n send subscription requests to rend386-request@sunee.waterloo.edu\n send material to rend386@sunee.waterloo.edu\n\nPoV ray / DKB raytracers\n------------------------\n To subscribe, send a mail containing the body\n\n subscribe dkb-l \n\n to listserv@trearn.bitnet\n\n send material to dkb-l@trearn.bitnet\n\nMailing List for Massively Parallel Rendering\n---------------------------------------------\n send subscription requests to mp-render-request@icase.edu\n send material to mp-render@icase.edu\n\n==========================================================================\n\n6. 3D graphics editors\n======================\n\na. Public domain, free and shareware systems\n============================================\n\nVISION-3D\n---------\n Mac-based program written by Paul D. Bourke (pdbourke@ccu1.aukland.ac.nz).\n The program can be used to generate models directly in the RayShade\n and Radiance file formats (polygons only).\n It's shareware and listed on the FTP list.\n\nBRL\n---\n A solid modeling system for most environments -- including SGI and X11.\n It has CSG and NURBS, plus support for Non-Manifold Geometry\n [Whatever it is].\n\n You can get it *free* via FTP by signing and returning the relevant license,\n found on ftp.brl.mil. Uses ray-tracing for engineering analyses.\n\n Contact:\n\n Ms. Carla Moyer\n (410)-273-7794 tel.\n (410)-272-6763 FAX\n cad-dist@brl.mil E-mail\n\n Snail mail:\n\n BRL-CAD Distribution\n SURVIAC Aberdeen Satellite Office 1003\n Old Philadelphia Road,\n Suite 103 Aberdeen\n MD 21001 USA\n\nIRIT\n----\n A constructive solid geometry (CSG) modeling program for PC and X11.\n Includes freeform surface support. Free - see FTP list for where to\n find it.\n\nSurfModel\n---------\n A solid modeling program for PC written in Turbo Pascal 6.0 by\n Ken Van Camp. Available from SIMTEL, pd1: directory.\n\nNOODLES\n-------\n From CMU, namely Fritz Printz and Levent Gursoz (elg@styx.edrc.cmu.edu).\n It's based on Non Manifold Topology.\n Ask them for more info, I don't know if they give it away.\n\nXYZ2\n----\n XYZ2 is an interactive 3-D editor/builder written by Dale P. Stocker to\n create objects for the SurfaceModel, Automove, and DKB raytracer packages.\n XYZ2 is free and can be found, for example, in SIMTEL20 as\n XYZ21.ZIP (DOS only??)\n\n3DMOD\n-----\n It's an MSDOS program. Check at barnacle.erc.clarkson.edu [128.153.28.12],\n /pub/msdos/graphics/3dmod.* . Undocumented file format :-(\n 3DMOD is (C) 1991 by Micah Silverman, 25 Pierrepoint Ave., Postdam,\n New York 13676, tel. 315-265-7140\n\nNORTHCAD\n--------\n Shareware, NCAD3D42.ZIP in SIMTEL20. Undocumented file format :-(\n\nVertex\n------\n (Amiga)\n Shareware, send $40 US (check or money order) to:\n\n The Art Machine, 4189 Nickolas\n Sterling Heights, MI 48310\n USA\n\n In addition to the now standard file formats, including Lightwave,\n Imagine, Sculpt, Turbo Silver, GEO and Wavefront, this release offers\n 3D Professional and RayShade support. (Rayshade is supported only by\n the primitive \"triangle\", but you can easily include this output in\n your RayShade scripts)\n\n The latest demo, version 1.62, is available on Fred Fish #727.\n\n For more information, contact the author, Alex Deburie, at:\n\n ad99s461@sycom.mi.org, Phone: (313) 939-2513\n \n\nICoons\n------\n (Amiga)\n It's a spline based object modeller (\"ICoons\" = Interactive \n COONS path editor) in amiga.physik.unizh.ch (gfx/3d/ICoons1.0.lzh).\n It's free (under the GNU Licence) and requires FPU.\n\n The program has a look&feel which is a cross between Journeyman and\n Imagine, and it generates objects in TTDDD format.\n\n It is possible to load Journeyman objects into ICoons, so the program\n can be used to convert JMan objects to Imagine format.\n\n Author: Helge E. Rasmussen \n PHONE + 45 36 72 33 00, FAX + 45 36 72 43 00\n\n[ It's also on Fred Fish disk series n.775 - nfotis ]\n\n\nProtoCAD 3D\n-----------\n Ver 1.1 from Trius (shareware?)\n\n It's at wsmr-simtel20.army.mil and oak.oakland.edu as PCAD3D.ZIP (for PCs)\n\n It has this menu layout:\n\n FILE File handling (Load, Save, Import, Xport...)\n DRAW Draw 2D objects (Line, Circle, Box...)\n 3D Draw 3D objects (Mesh, Sphere, Block...)\n EDIT Editing features (Copy, Move ...)\n SURFACE Modify objects (Revolve, Xtrude, Sweep...)\n IMAGE Image zooming features (Update, Window, Half...)\n OPTION Global defaults (Grid, Toggles, Axis...)\n PLOT Print drawing/picture (Go, Image...)\n RENDER Shade objects (Frame, Lighting, Tune...)\n LAYER Layer options (Select active layer, set Colors...)\n\nSculptura\n---------\n Runs under Windows 3.1, and outputs PoV files. A demo can be found\n on wuarchive.wustl.edu in mirrors/win3/demo/demo3d.zip\n\n Author: Michael Gibson \n\n\nb. Commercial systems\n=====================\n\nAlpha_1\n-------\n A spline-based modeling program written in University of Utah.\n Features: splines up to trimmed NURBS; support for boolean operations;\n sweeps, bending, warping, flattening etc.; groups of objects, and\n transformations; extensible object types.\n Applications include: NC machining, Animation utilities,\n Dimensioning, FEM analysis, etc.\n Rendering subsystem, with support for animations.\n Support the following platforms: HP 300 and 800's (X11R4, HP-UX 6.5),\n SGI 4D or PI machines (X11R4 and GL, IRIX 3.3.1), Sun SparcStation\n (X11R4, SunOS 4.1.1).\n \n Licensing and distribution is handled by EGS:\n Glenn McMinn, President\n Engineering Geometry Systems\n 275 East South Temple, Suite 305\n Salt Lake City, UT 84111\n (801) 575-6021\n mcminn@cs.utah.edu\n\n [ Educational pricing ]\n The charge is $675 per platform. You may run the system on as many\n different workstations of that type as you wish. For each platform\n there is also a $250 licensing fee for Portable Standard Lisp (PSL)\n which is bundled with the system. You need to obtain an additional\n license from the University of Utah for PSL from the following address:\n Professor Robert Kessler\n Computer Science Department\n University of Utah\n Salt Lake City, Utah 84112\n\n [ EGS can handle the licensing of PSL for U.S. institutions for a\n 300 $USD nominal fee -- nfotis ]\n\nVERTIGO\n-------\n\n They have an Educational Institution Program. The package is used in\n the industrial design, architectural, scientific visualization,\n educational, broadcast, imaging and post production fields.\n\n They'll [quoting from a letter sent to me -- nfotis ] \"donate fully\n configured Vertigo 3D Graphics Software worth over $29,000USD per\n package to qualified educational institutions for licencing on any\n number of Silicon Graphics Personal IRIS or POWER Series Workstations.\n If you use an IRIS Indigo station, we will also licence our Vertigo\n Revolution Software (worth $12,000USD).\n\n If you are interested in participating in this program please send a\n letter by mail or fax (604/684-2108) on your institution's letterhead\n briefly outlining your potential uses for Vertigo together with the\n following information: 1. UNIX version 2. Model and number of SGI\n systems 3. Peripheral devices 4. Third Party Software.\n\n Participants will be asked to contribute $750USD per institution to cover\n costs of the manual, administration, and shipping.\n\n We recommend that Vertigo users subscribe to our technical support\n services. For an annual fee you will receive: technical assistance\n on our support hotline, bug fixes, software upgrades and manual updates.\n For educational institution we will waive the $750 administration fee\n if support is purchased.\n\n The annual support fee is $2,500 plus the following cost for additional\n machines:\n\n Number of machines:\t\t2-20\t\t20+\n Additional cost per machine:\t$700\t\t$600 \"\n\n[ There's also a 5-day training program - nfotis]\n\nContact:\n Vertigo Technology INC\n Suite 1010\n 1030 West Georgia St.\n VANCOUVER, BC\n CANADA, V6E 2Y3\n\n Phone: 604/684-2113\n Fax: 604/684-2108\n\n[ Does anyone know of such offers from TDI, Alias, Softimage, Wavefront,\n etc.??? this would be a VERY interesting part!! -- nfotis ]\n\nPADL-2\n------\n[ Basically, it's a Solid Modeling Kernel in top of which you build your\n application(s)]\n\n Available by license from\n Cornell Programmable Automation\n Cornell University\n 106 Engineering and Theory Center\n Ithaca, NY 14853\n\n License fees are very low for educational institutions and gov't agencies.\n Internal commercial licenses and re-dissemination licenses are available.\n For an information packet, write to the above address, or send your\n address to: marisa@cpa.tn.cornell.edu (Richard Marisa)\n\nACIS\n----\n From Spatial Technology. It's a Solid Modelling kernel callable from C.\n Heard that many universities got free copies from the company.\n The person to contact regarding ACIS in academic institutions is\n\n Scott Owens, e-mail: sdo@spatial.com\n\n And their address is:\n\n Spatial Technology, Inc.\n 2425 55th St., Bldg. A\n Boulder, CO 80301-5704\n Phone: (303) 449-0649, Fax: (303) 449-0926\n\nMOVIE-BYU / CQUEL.BYU\n---------------------\n Basically [in my understanding], this is a FEM pre- and post-proccessor\n system. It's fairly old today, but it still serves some people in\n Mech. Eng. Depts.\n Now it's superseded from CQUEL.BYU (pronounced \"sequel\"). That's a\n complete modelling, animation and visualization package. Runs in the usual\n workstation environments (SUN, DEC, HP, SGI, IBM RS6000, and others)\n You can get a demo version (30-days trial period) either by sending $20\n USD in their address or a blank tape. It costs 1,500 for a full run-time\n licence.\n\n Contact:\n\n Engineering Computer Graphics Lab\n 368 Clyde Building, Brigham Young Univ.\n Provo, UT 84602\n Phone: 801-378-2812\n E-mail: cquel@byu.edu\n\n\ntwixt\n-----\n Soon to add stuff about it... If I get a reply to my FAX\n\nVOXBLAST\n--------\n It's a volume renderer marketed by:\n Vaytek Inc. (Fairfield, Iowa phone: 515-472-2227) , running on PCs\n with 386+FPU at least. Call Vaytek for more info.\n\nVoxelBox\n--------\n A 3D Volume renderer for Windows. Features include direct\n ray-traced volume rendering, color and alpha mapping,\n gradient lighting, animation, reflections and shadows.\n\n Runs on a PC(386 or higher) with at least an 8 bit video card(SVGA is fine)\n under Windows 3.x. It costs $495.\n\n Contact:\n\n Jaguar Software Inc.\n 573 Main St., Suite 9B\n Winchester, MA 01890\n (617) 729-3659\n jwp@world.std.com (john w poduska)\n\n==========================================================================\n\n7. Scene description languages\n==============================\n\nNFF\n---\n Neutral file format , by Eric Haines. Very simple, there are some\n procedural database generators in the SPD package, and many objects\n floating in various FTP sites. There's also a previewer written in\n HP Starbase from E.Haines. Also there's one written in VOGLE, so you can\n use any of the devices VOGLE can output on.\n (Check in sites carrying VOGLE, like gondwana.ecr.mu.oz.au)\n\nOFF\n---\n Object file format, from DEC's Randy Rost (rost@kpc.com).\n[ The object archive server seems to be mothballed. In a future version,\n I'll remove the ref. to it -- nfotis ]\n\n Available also through their mail server. To obtain help about using this\n service, send a message with a \"Subject:\" line containing only the word\n \"help\" and a null message body to: object-archive-server@decwrl.dec.com.\n [For FTP places to get it, see in the relevant place]. There's an OFF\n previewer for SGI 4D machines, called off-preview in\n godzilla.cgl.rmit.oz.au . There are previewers for xview and sunview,\n also on gondwana.\n\nTDDD\n----\nIt's a library of 3D objects with translators to/from OFF, NFF,\nRayshade, Imagine or vort objects.\nEdited copy of the announcement follows (from Raytracing News, V4,#3):\n\n New Library of 3D Objects Available via FTP, by Steve Worley\n (worley@cup.portal.com)\n\n I have assembled a set of over 150 3D objects in a binary format\n called TDDD. These objects range from human figures to airplanes,\n from semi-trucks to lampposts. These objects are all freely\n distributable, and most have READMEs that describe them.\n\n In order to convert these objects to a human-readable format, a file\n with the specification of TDDD is included in the directory with the\n objects. There is also a shareware system called TTDDDLIB (officially\n on hubcap.clemson.edu) that will convert (ala PBM+) to/from various\n object formats : Imagine TTDDD (extension of TDDD?), OFF, NFF,\n Rayshade 4.0, or vort. Source included for Amiga/Unix as executables\n for the Amiga. Also outputs Framemaker MIF files and isometric views\n in Postscript.\n\nP3D\n---\n From Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center. The P3D uses lisp with slight\n extensions to store three-dimensional models. A simple lisp\n interpreter is included with the P3D release, so there is no need to\n have access to any vendor's lisp to run this software.\n\n The mouse-driven user interfaces for Motif, Open Look, and Silicon\n Graphics GL, and the DrawP3D subroutine library for generating P3D\n without ever looking at the underlying Lisp.\n\n The P3D software currently supports nine renderers. They are:\n Painter - Painter's Algorithm, Dore, Silicon Graphics Inc. GL language,\n Generic Phigs, Sun Phigs+, DEC Phigs+, Rayshade, ART ray tracer (from\n VORT package) and Pixar RenderMan.\n\n The code is available via anonymous FTP from the machines\n ftp.psc.edu, directory pub/p3d, and nic.funet.fi, directory\n pub/graphics/programs/p3d.\n\nRenderMan\n---------\n Pixar's RenderMan is not free - call Pixar for details.\n\n==========================================================================\n\n8. Solids description formats\n=============================\n\na. EEC's ESPRIT project 322 CAD*I (CAD Interfaces) has developed a\n neutral file format for transfer of CAD data (curves, surfaces, and\n solid models between CAD systems and from CAD to CAA (Computer Aided\n Analysis) an CAM (Computer Aided Manufacturing)\n\nb. IGES [v. 5.1 now] tries to define a standard to tranfer solid\n models - Brep and CSG. The current standard number is ANSI Y14.26M-1987\n For documentation, you might want to contact Nancy Flower at\n NCGA Technical Services and Standards, 1-800-225-6242 ext. 325\n and the cost is $100.\n This standard is not available in electronic format.\n\nc. PDES/STEP : This slowly emerging standard tries to encompass not only\n the geometrical information, but also for things like FEM, etc.\n The main bodies besides this standard are NIST and DARPA. You can get\n more information about PDES by sending mail to nptserver@cme.nist.gov\n and putting the line\n\tsend index\n in the body (NOT the Subject:) area of the message.\n\n The people at Rutherford Appleton Lab. are also working\n on STEP tools: they have an EXPRESS compiler and an Exchange file parser,\n both available in source form (and for free) for research purposes.\n Soon they will also have an EXPRESS-based database system.\n\n For the tools contact Mike Mead, Phone: +44 (0235) 44 6710 (FAX: x 5893),\n e-mail: mm@inf.rl.ac.uk or {...!}mcsun!uknet!rlinf!mm or\n mm%inf.rl.ac.uk@NSFnet-relay.ac.uk\n\n==========================================================================\n\nEnd of Part 1 of the Resource Listing", "\nYes, this is also my understanding of the majority of Islamic laws.\nHowever, I believe there are also certain legal rulings which, in all\nfive schools of law (4 sunni and 1 jaffari), can be levelled against\nmuslim or non-muslims, both within and outside dar-al-islam. I do\nnot know if apostasy (when accompanied by active, persistent, and\nopen hostility to Islam) falls into this category of the law. I do know\nthat\nhistorically, apostasy has very rarely been punished at all, let alone\nby the death penalty.\n\nMy understanding is that Khomeini's ruling was not based on the\nlaw of apostasy (alone). It was well known that Rushdie was an apostate\nlong before he wrote the offending novel and certainly there is no\nprecedent in the Qur'an, hadith, or in Islamic history for indiscriminantly\nlevelling death penalties for apostasy.\n\nI believe the charge levelled against Rushdie was that of \"fasad\". This\nruling applies both within and outside the domain of an\nIslamic state and it can be carried out by individuals. The reward was\nnot offered by Khomeini but by individuals within Iran.\n\n\nI would concur that the thrust of the fatwa (from what I remember) was\nlevelled at the author and all those who assisted in the publication\nof the book. However, the charge of \"fasad\" can encompass a\nnumber of lesser charges. I remember that when diplomatic relations\nbroke off between Britain and Iran over the fatwa - Iran stressed that\nthe condemnation of the author, and the removal of the book from\ncirculation were two preliminary conditions for resolving the\n\"crisis\". But you are correct to point out that banning the book was not\nthe main thrust behind the fatwa. Islamic charges such as fasad are\nlevelled at people, not books.\n\nThe Rushdie situation was followed in Iran for several months before the\nissuance of the fatwa. Rushdie went on a media blitz,\npresenting himself as a lone knight guarding the sacred values of\nsecular democracy and mocking the foolish concerns of people\ncrazy enough to actually hold their religious beliefs as sacred. \nFanning the flames and milking the controversy to boost\nhis image and push the book, he was everywhere in the media. Then\nMuslim demonstrators in several countries were killed while\nprotesting against the book. Rushdie appeared momentarily\nconcerned, then climbed back on his media horse to once again\nattack the Muslims and defend his sacred rights. It was at this\npoint that the fatwa on \"fasad\" was issued.\n\nThe fatwa was levelled at the person of Rushdie - any actions of\nRushdie that feed the situation contribute to the legitimization of\nthe ruling. The book remains in circulation not by some independant\nwill of its own but by the will of the author and the publishers. The fatwa\nagainst the person of Rushdie encompasses his actions as well. The\ncrime was certainly a crime in progress (at many levels) and was being\nplayed out (and played up) in the the full view of the media.", "\n\n\n\nThey police did not beat King when he was on the ground. They beat him when\nhe was on his knees trying to get back up. If you had watche d the entire\nvideo you would have seen this.\n\n\nIf you think this is true, much less relevant, than you are in sadder shape\nthan I thought.", "\t jlevine@rd.hydro.on.ca (Jody Levine) writes...\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\tI've already discussed this in e-mail with Jonathan. It's the film\n\"The Inspector General\" [:-)], with Danny Kaye, although I can't quote the\nname of the leading lady (Because Maltin doesn't :-(). Jonathan thinks there\nwas an earlier Russian film; \"Movies on TV\" just says it was based on a Gogol\n(Yes, Jonathan, I looked it up again -- only two o's) story.", "\n+In article <1993May7.211312.10403@bert.eecs.uic.edu>, rsc@siggraph.org\n+|> Computer Graphics experimental special online issue\n+|> May 1993\n+|> \n+|> The May 1993 experimental special issue of Computer Graphics is online \n+|> as a set of files on the siggraph.org system in the directory \n+|> ~ftp/publications/May_93_online \n+|> This is made available to the computer graphics community by ACM \n+|> SIGGRAPH. The general theme of this issue is electronic documents, and \n+|> the Table of Contents in the AboutThisIssue files will tell you more \n+|> about this publication and its contents.\n+\n+ I ftp'd here, but found nothing. Has this been removed?\n\nNope, it's still there:", "930425\n\n\nLet's start with the name \"Rosicrucian\". I took me a long time to come\nto the conclusion that there is a difference between a *member* of a\n\"rosicrucian\" body and BEING *a* ROSICRUCIAN. So when you say that you met\nsome 'rosicrucians' you mean \"members of a group that calls themselves\nrosicrucian\". At least that is what your observation suggests :-)\n\n\nResponse:\n\nThis makes much sense to me. This is also true of most religions.\nThere is a difference between being a *member* of a group of people\nwho call themselves 'Hindus' or 'Christians' or 'Pagans' and actually\n*BEING* any of these. The social groups tend to make very important\nrequirements about not belonging to other 'religions'. I find that\nthe ideal described by the holy texts of most religions can be\ninterpreted in very similar ways so that one could presume that\n'mysticism' is the core of every religion and Huxley's 'Perennial\nPhilosophy' is the Great Secret Core of all mystical trads. :>\n\n\nTony:\n\nI'd prefer if you would have stated up front that it was the Lectorium\nRosicrucianum, only because they may be confused, by some readers of this\nnewsgroup, with the Rosicrucian Order AMORC based (the USA Jurisdiction) in\nSan Jose, CA; this being the RC org with the most members (last time I\nlooked). Of course, \"most members\" does not *necessarily* mean \"best\".\n\n\nResponse:\n\nCertainly true. I didn't know there WERE any groups which called themselves\n'Rosicrucians' that didn't associate with AMORC. Sure, I've heard all the\nhubbub about the Golden Dawn and Rosae Crucis in relation to all these\nWestern esoteric groups, but hadn't heard about other 'Rosicrucians'.\nI'll admit my bias. I live in San Jose. :>\n\n\nTony:\n\n\"You'll have to trust me\" when I tell you that if that\nlecture/class/whatever had been presented by AMORC, it is unlikely that you\nwould have had the same impression, i.e., you'd probably have had a\npositive impression more likely than a negative one, IMHO. \n\n\nResponse:\n\nThis may be slightly off. I've met some of these Rosicrucians and have\na couple friends in AMORC. The stories I've heard and the slight contact\nI've had with them does not give me the hope that I'd be received with\nany kind of warm welcome. I still like to think that most people who\nare involved with stratified relationships (monogamy, religion, etc.)\nare in DEEP pain and hope to heal it within such a 'cast'.\n\n\nTony:\n\n \nIt is curious to know that 3 other RC 'orders' (in the USA) claim to be *non-\nsectarian*.\n\n\nResponse:\n\nI'd like to know at least the addresses of the 'other orders' which call \nthemselves 'Rosicrucians' and especially those which are 'nonsectarian'.\nIs this 'nonsectarian' like the Masons, who require that a member 'believe\nin God by his/her definition'?\n\n \n \nTony:\n\nI don't see nothing *fundamentally* wrong with \"us containing\nsomething divine\"... And yes I don't like phrases like \"eternal bliss\"\neither! :-)\n\n\nResponse:\n\nLet alone us *BEING* something divine. ;>\n\n\nTony:\n\nBTW, I have read the intro letters of the LRC which they will mail you free\nof charge.\n\n\nResponse:\n\nAddresses, phone numbers of groups? I'm into networking. Thanks.\n", "\nWhile it may mean that in 1993, the relevant meaning comes from 1789.\nMoreover, \"controlled\" doesn't tell you WHO's doing the controllling.\n\nFletcher's Political Works, pub'd in 1749, defines a \"well-regulated\nmilitia\", that being the relevant phrase, as being an armed people NOT\nunder the control of govt. The wigged gents who argued about the\nconstituion used it in that way.\n\nFeel free to provide a 1790s-era reference showing a usage other than\n\"individual right, not to be interfered with by govt\".\n\nNote that the first clause has a meaning - it is a restriction on\ngovt military power. See Scarry's University of Penn law review\narticle for an extended discussion. The existence of a well-regulated\nmilitia is a necessary part of that restriction, but it is not sufficient.\n\n-andy", "\nFine, but one of the points of this entire discussion is that \"we\"\n(conservative, reformed christians - this could start an argument...\nBut isn't this idea that homosexuality is ok fairly \"new\" [this\ncentury] ? Is there any support for this being a viable viewpoint\nbefore this century? I don't know.) don't believe that homosexuality\nis \"acceptable to Him\". So your scripture quotation doesn't work for\n\"us\".", "\nHave you read the applicable part of the Constitution and interpreted it IN \nCONTEXT? If not, please do so before posting this misinterpretation again.\nIt refers to the right of the people to organize a militia, not for individuals \nto carry handguns, grenades, and assault rifles. ", "Write a good manual to go with the software. The hassle of\nphotocopying the manual is offset by simplicity of purchasing\nthe package for only $15. Also, consider offering an inexpensive\nbut attractive perc for registered users. For instance, a coffee\nmug. You could produce and mail the incentive for a couple of\ndollars, so consider pricing the product at $17.95.\n\nYou're lucky if only 20% of the instances of your program in use\nare non-licensed users.\n\nThe best approach is to estimate your loss and accomodate that into\nyour price structure. Sure it hurts legitimate users, but too bad.\nRetailers have to charge off loss to shoplifters onto paying\ncustomers; the software industry is the same.\n\nUnless your product is exceptionally unique, using an ostensibly\ncopy-proof disk will just send your customers to the competetion.\n\n", " [stuff deleted]\n\nYou should be clear in your mind what your goal is. Two possible goals\nare (1) maximizing you income from your program, and (2) minimizing\nthe number of illegal copies which get created. Accomplishing (2)\ndoesn't usually accomplish (1).\n\nMost vendors have concluded that copy protection reduces the number of\nnormal legitimate sales by far more than it increase sales by virtue\nof changing 'copiers' to 'purchasers', and hence merely reduces\nrevenue. Most legitimate buyers nowadays (including me) have had bad\nexperiences with copy protected products (e.g., hard to make a\nlegitimate backup, incompatabilties when new system on system upgrade,\netc.), and they won't touch them with a ten foot pole.", "\nIf anyone is interested in the history of AMORC, I do think Spencer\nLewis published books about the beginning and his mission. The \nAlexandria bookstore (that's the name of the book store operated \nby AMORC) should have a selection that should provide the interested\nreader more insight). \n\nCheers,\nKent", "\nAviation Week March 15 1993 p.48\n\n\"the CBO estimates that matching the capability of 100 C-17s would\nrequire 70 C-5s at a total cost of $14.4 billion. This option is still\nmore than $10 billion cheaper than completing the C-17 program, which\nthe CBO estimates will cost $24.7 billion.\"\n\nSorry, I was nine billion off. The C-5s would be ten billion cheaper.\nWell, California voted overwhelmingly for change, right?\nThe argument to continue military programs just to support jobs is\na poor one. It's kept quite a few bases open that should have been closed\nyears ago, wasting billions of taxes.\n", "\n\n Larry King Live was both telling and sickening. Every other word\n out of Janet REno's mouth was \"the little children\" ,etc. Sounded\n like Clinton talking. She made claims that the children were \n beaten, etc, DESPITE the pronouncements of social workers that none\n of the children who left the compound were abused. But the REAL\n crime:\n\n\n Larry King, and his censored show. NOT ONE FUCKING QUESTION\n about Reno's possible error. Just two calls about how she\n had made a \"good decision\". Now, it doesn't take a rocket\n scientist to figure out that SOME people are going to be upset.", "[Motor-Voter stuff]\n\n Well, there does have to be a line. And to be honest, extending\nvoter registration to DMVs is hardly analogous to having only one\nplace for registration in Alaska and opening a new one in Atlanta. More is \nnot always better once you've passed a certain point.\n\n\n I thought the Motor Voter bill passed.\n\n In any case, my experiance with Tennessee's voter registration\nsystem (which you can register with by mail, by the way) is that nobody\nwho is interested in voting is being denied access to registration.\nAll it requires is just the tiniest bit of interest on the registrant's\npart and thinking about the election once in the eleven months prior to\nit. (Once you register it's good unless you miss for years worth of\nelections of move.)\n\n It's easy to register now. I simply don't see the value in going\nout and trying to get people registered who don't have enough gumption to\neven write and have the proper forms sent to them. How can we expect\nresponsible decisions out of these people?\n", "\nThere is something terribly wrong, however, with a culture which\ncondemns, attacks, and all too often kills any of its members who\nattempt to get an education. My mother is an elementary school\nteacher, and she tells me that she and her african american collegues\nare frustrated to tears by the fact that any african american child who\nattempts to do well in school and get an education is accused by\nhis/her peers of \"trying to be white\", and is beaten, bullied, and\ntormented by them. It goes beyond each passing grade on a test earning\na beating. In my mother's school, one of the most promising young\nstudents, who happened to be african american, had her throat cut by\none of these young thugs.\n\nNobody who buys into such a culture has any hope of being anything but\npoor and/or a thug and/or dead, regardless of their color.\n\nWhat has to be changed is the culture. If that culture can't be\nchanged, then those african-american kids who are willing to separate\nfrom it *must* be separated from it and the murderous thugs of whatever\ncolor. Otherwise, future bright young african american girls who\nwanted to be doctors will end up dead on the school bus.", "\n\nI assume that you are talking about the appeals processes, etc.?\nWell, it should be noted that people who are imprisoned for life\nwill also tend to appeal (though not quite as much in the \"final\nhours.\"\n\nAnyway, economics is not a very good reason to either favor or oppose\nthe punishment.", "While not exactly a service incident, I had a similar experience recently \nwhen I bought a new truck.\n\nI had picked out the vehicle I wanted and after a little haggling we \nagreed on a price. I wrote them a check for the down payment plus tax\nand license and told them I'd be back that evening to pick up the truck. \nWhen I returned, I had to wait about an hour before the finance guy could \nget to me. When I finally got in there, everything went smoothly until he \nstarted adding up the numbers. He then discovered that they had \nmiscalculated the tax & license by about $150. He then said he needed \nanother $150 from me. I said we had already agreed on a price and it was \ntheir problem, I wasn't giving them any more money. The finance guy then \nbrought in the manager on duty who proceeded to give me a hard time. I \nreminded him that I was the customer and I didn't think I should be \ntreated like that and that if he didn't back off he could forget the whole \ndeal. He made some smart remark so I told him where he could stick it, \nsnatched back my check and left. Needless to say, they were not pleased by \nthe turn of events.\n\nEarly the next morning I got a call from the general sales manager wanting \nto know what happened. I related the story and he apologised profusely and \nasked if there was anything they could do to change my mind. I told him \nthat if they gave me the truck for free I probably still wouldn't take it, \nthat there were other dealers in town, I was a repeat customer of theirs \nand that they should learn how to treat customers,etc,etc...I was still \npretty steamed about the whole affair. He gave me the line about hating to \nlose a customer and they would try to find a solution, etc, etc. I told \nhim not to bother, thanks, I'd go somewhere else.\n\nA couple hours later, the owner of the dealership called me, all \napologetic, etc, etc, etc, and said that they would cover the $150 plus \nknock another $400 off the price of the truck. I told him I'd think about \nit and he gave me his private, direct phone number, his secretary's name, \nand assured me that they valued me as a customer, etc etc etc....\n\nI thought about it for a few hours and discussed it with my wife and we \ndecided, what the hell...that was a pretty decent deal, so I called him \nback and accepted his offer. When I went back the next day to pick up the \ntruck, I received the royal treatment. Everyone seemed to know about the \nincident, even the lot boy. Everything went smoothly and I was out of \nthere in my new truck in about 30 mins.\n\nSo, I guess I'm a reasonably satisfied customer. However, it should not \nhave happened in the first place. I was a bit shocked to have a sales \nperson talk to me like that. I don't expect them to bow and grovel, but I \nsure don't expect to be given a hard time either, esp. when it's their \nmistake.\n\nAnyway, I'm happy with the truck and it turned out to be a couple hundred \ndollars under invoice and they paid most of the first year's license fee. \nI'm not sure whether I'll go back to that dealer, tho.", "\nI too am a Jules Verne collector, and can tell you that though tough \nto find, it *is* out there. I keep my eyes open all the time for his\nbooks at various Bay Area used book stores, and every once in a while\nget *very* lucky. You just need diligence. I don't know if the book\nstore situation near JSC is as good as the Bay Area, but good luck.\nI have also had excellent luck at the Antiquarian Book Fair which comes\nto SF every other year, though the prices are more in the $100-$200 range\nthan the $50 you want to spend. My guess is that *if* you find it,\nyou won't need to spend even that much, since most people don't care \nabout it. I think I paid about $15 for my dust-jacket-less but otherwise\ngood condition copy, which I found one day at a small bookshop that happened\nto have just bought a lot of random books at an estate sale. \n\nOf course, if you re willing to buy blind, you can put a $2 advertisement\nin the Antiquarian Bookseller's newsletter (the exact title of which escapes\nme at the moment.) _Five Weeks in a Balloon_ is not the rarest of Jules\nVerne books. Someone has it for sale somewhere, and the AB is the way to \nfind it. In fact, I would be surprised if you didn't get multiple offers\nof sale. Of course, that takes the fun out of hunting for it yourself...\n\nGood luck.", "\nLucky for them that the baby didn't have any obvious deformities! I could\njust see it now: Mary gets pregnant out of wedlock so to save face she and\nJoseph say that it was God that got her pregnant and then the baby turns\nout to be deformed, or even worse, stillborn! They'd have a lot of\nexplaining to do.... :-)\n", "\n\nActually, I've had a bad habit of stuffing a whole bunch of other garbage\njunk mail in along with whatever else into *anybody's* prepaid envelopes\nuntil they almost burst. I believe they pay postage by weight.\nheh, heh, heh...\n\nAnyways, don't tear up the quotes just yet...I sometimes use their\nquotes or other insurance quotations as leverage to haggle for a\nlower rate elsewhere. Usually it works to *your* advantage if \nthey are lower.", "\n\n\nYou might be sure, but you would also be wrong.\n", "sure the\nway is\non\ndifferent\n\nOkay, so what do you do if some part of the machine (presumably the part \non which the code number or whatever that the program has fixated itself \nupon goes bad, you replace that part, and now your program won't run \nbecause it's on a \"different\" computer???\n\nThis is, of course, assuming that the program uses something in ROM (like \nthe BIOS serial number, maybe?) and not a disk-based code number. \nObviously if the drive goes bad you'll be reinstalling the stuff anyway.\n\nI work in a computer lab which is part of the university microlab system. \nWe have the wonderfully fun task of maintaining well over a hundred \nmachines, both PC and Macintosh, as well as administering a network of \nover 50 NeXT machines. I personally am concerned only with a small lab \nwith ten PC's and ten Mac's. (I'm not the manager, but help him with \nadmin often). IMHO, copy-protection schemes of ANY sort are nothing more \nthan a major headache for the legitimate user. Anyone who wants a copy of \nyour program and doesn't care about legality will get a copy. Period. \n\"Pirate board\" or no pirate board. I too have \"friends\" who blatantly and \nquite successfuly \"hack\" copy protection schemes practically in their \nsleep.\n\nLet's consider what goes on in our lab. Almost daily we have at least one \nmachine down, sometimes several, due to some goofball screwing up some \nsetting or other on a piece of software. Admittedly, we (being students, \nmostly) are not the world's most efficient and effective network \nadministrators, but we try. Keeping even the twenty machines that are \n(partly) my responsibility even vaguely looking and \"acting\" similar to \nthe average user, and maintaining \"behind-the-scenes\" consistency is a \nreal headache, but not so bad a headache as trying to remember twenty \ndifferent folder locations of Norton Utilities when some guy trashes his \ndisk.\n\nOften we have hardware problems at peak \"business\" times and have to do \nsome parts-swapping to get stuff working temporarily. . . .\n\nWell, I'll cut to the chase and quit boring y'all . . ..\n\nThe point is, often we have to re-install software and copy configuration \nfiles etc. from machine to machine. By far the easiest way we have found \nto do this is to get ONE machine working EXACTLY the way we want to, then \nCOPY the complete setup of this machine to the other nine (of that \nmachine's type). This ensures us that (for at least ten minutes) we have \nten IDENTICAL machines to work with. Having them networked simplifies \nthis considerably, as our major packages (WordPerfect, Windows, etc.) are \nall network versions and thus only one copy to mess with.\n\nOften, however, we need to install a package requested by some instructor \nto one, some, or all of the machines for a special project. This is \nusually a hand-written or shareware,etc. program similar to what I believe \nthe original poster was asking about. The few we have had with \"copy \nprotection\" schemes have caused nothing but NIGHTMARES for us to maintain \n . .\n\nIn short, don't waste your time with a copy protection scheme. It's sort \nof like outlawing guns. The criminals will get your program anyway, and \nyou will only be hurting the legitimate, honest user. Write a good user's \nguide and tech manual, whatever else for your program (PLEASE do this \nREGARDLESS of whether you copy protect the thing!!!), and only distribute \nthe manual to LICENSED users. Jack the price to cut your losses, but \nplease take a cue from the major companies (who can admittedly afford the \ncosts of illegal copies far better than you) and don't burden the \nlegitimate user with a \"copy protection\" scheme!\n\n\nSorry for the tirade, but it's been a long day here . . .. :-)\n\n\nMark S. Underwood\nEE Student, University of Kentucky\nLab Assistant, Boyd Hall Microlab \n\t(a tiny little division of UK Library Microlabs)\nE-Mail: msunde01@mik.uky.edu\n\n\n", "\nWe have three options with respect to the Constitution:\n\n1. Abide by it.\n2. Duly amend it.\n3. Abandon those parts of which a majority disapproves.\n\nOf course, since the whole point of the Constitution is to restrain the\nwill of the majority, and since even in unfettered democracy we have \nnothing to fear from minorities, #3 amounts to abandoning the \nConstitution altogether.\n\nWhich will it be?\n\n---\nMark Pundurs", "\n My understanding is that the 'expected errors' are basically\n known bugs in the warning system software - things are checked\n that don't have the right values in yet because they aren't\n set till after launch, and suchlike. Rather than fix the code\n and possibly introduce new bugs, they just tell the crew\n 'ok, if you see a warning no. 213 before liftoff, ignore it'.\n\nGood grief. And I thought the Shuttle software was known for being\nwell-engineered. If this is actually the case, every member of the\nprogramming team should be taken out and shot.\n\n(given that I've heard the Shuttle software rated as Level 5 in\nmaturity, I strongly doubt that this is the case).", "\n More info please. I'm not well exposed to these ideas.\n\n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ \n\nBob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM \n\nThey said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,\nand sank Manhattan out at sea.", " | \n | > Mary at that time appeared to a girl named Bernadette at \n | > Lourdes. She referred to herself as the Immaculate Conception.\n | > Since a nine year old would have no way of knowing about the \n | > doctrine, the apparition was deemed to be true and it sealed \n | > the case for the doctrine. \n |Bernadette was 14 years old when she had her visions, in 1858, \n |four years after the dogma had been officially proclaimed by the \n |Pope. \n | \n | Yours, \n | James Kiefer\n\nI forgot exactly what her age was but I remember clearly\nthat she was born in a family of poverty and she did not\nhave any education, whatsoever, at the age of the apparitions.\nShe suffered from asthma at that age and she and her family were\nliving in a prison cell of some sort.\n\nShe had to ask the 'Lady' several times in her apparitions about \nwhat her name was since her confessor priest asked her to do so. \nFor several instances, the priest did not get an answer since \nBernadette did not receive any. One time, after several apparitions\npassed, The Lady finally said, \"I am the Immaculate Conception\".\nSo, Bernadette, was so happy and repeated these words over and\nover in her mind so as not to forget it before she told the\npriest who was asking. So, when she told the priest, the\npriest was shocked and asked Bernadette, \"Do you know what\nyou are talking about?\". Bernadette did not know what exactly\nit meant but she was just too happy to have the answer for\nthe priest. The priest continued with, \"How did you remember\nthis if you do not know?\". Bernadette answered honestly that\nshe had to repeat it over and over in her mind while on her\nway to the priest...\n\nThe priest knew about the dogma being four years old then.\nBut Bernadette did not know and yet she had the answer which\nthe priest finally observed and took as proof of an authentic\npersonal revelation of Our Lady to Bernadette.\n\n(Note: This Lady of Lourdes shrine has a spring of water which\nour lady requested Bernadette to dig up herself with her\nbare hands in front of pilgrims. At the start little\nwater flowed but after several years there is more water \nflowing.)\n\n-Marida\n \"...spreading God's words through actions...\"\n -Mother Teresa\n\n\n\n", "Second week of January (prime ski season at one of the largest Poconos ski\nareas). Just north of Allentown.\nCondo sleeps 6-8 depending on how friendly you all are. Has hot tub,\ndeck. Easy access to parking lot and shuttle to slopes (condo is a few\nmiles from the slopes).\n\nCost: $6000 OBRO, price based on what we paid for it (used, also) and\ncurrent market.\n[RICHR]", "\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n ^^^", "\nWhy don't you ask the approx. two million British Muslims who break\nit five times a day and have never ever been prosecuted under it?\n\nThen ask how easy it is to hold a Christian church service in Saudi\nArabia.", "\n\n\n\n\nEven though I find this to be funny on the surface, the original poster of the\njoke has tried and convicted the members of the BD to be a bunch of \"nuts\".\nThis may be a dangerous thing to do. It is my opinion that most educated\nor well informed people of this country have some distrust of the government.\nThis should exist because as a bureaucracy, any government given enough time\nwill tend to exist for it self and not for the original purpose it was \ncreated for. This distrust by the people should keep those in power in-line.\nThat and a properly functioning press. When a sensationalism oriented press\nportrays a group of people as \"nuts\" or crazies, a violation of those\npeople's civil rights seem justified. Since we, as American's, have the \ngurantee of rights as enumerated in the constitution, to include the\n2nd ammendment, the government must appease the public's opinion or risk \nvoted out of existance, or if it has become corrupt enough to tamper with\ndomocratic process itself, being thrown out by force.\n Our government as it stands, must appease the public. Therefore the \nofficial press releases portray the BD's as fanatics who are a threat to\npublic safety. We must not prejudge people based on one sided information.\nSo far the only information that we are being given is comming from the very\nagency that was embarrased by the BD(Branch Davidians sp?). It is to their\nadvantage to make the BD's as fanatical and dangerous as possible. If they\nwere portrayed as law-abiding citizen's, then they(ATF) had no justification\nwhat so ever of doing what they did.\n So let's keep an open mind. Jokes like above, even though it may be funny,\nmay mislead the public from the truth of the matter.\n\nJust as an aside, my understanding of U.S. vs Rock Island and U.S. vs Dalton\nleads me to believe that the National Firearms Act, which allows the Fed's\n(in this case ATF) to regulate firearms(machine guns), has been deemed to be\nunconstitutional since 1986.(By two federal district courts at least).\nAnd since, I believe the only reason ATF was involved\nin this case is because of firearms violations, it would be interesting to \nfind out whether or not the search warrent was based on the NFA.\nIt would be very embarrassing indeed if a search warrent based on a possibly\nunconstitutional law has resulted in 4 deaths(Law enforcement). \n\n\n****************************************************************************\nThe above opinions are mine and mine only.\nI'm solely responsible for my opinions and my actions. If you must flame\nthen flame away, but a well constructed argument will be much more respected.", "\nTsk.tsk. Too much argument on non-issues !\nI'm Roman Catholic and it seems to me that people\ncelebrate Easter and Christmas for itself rather\nthan how it relates to Jesus. I don't really\ncare about some diety. If people have some other\ndefinition of Easter, then that's their business.\nDon't let it interfere with my Easter.\n\n\"Resurrection Sunday\" 8-) Where did that come from ?\nIf people celebrate Easter for the Cadburry bunny,\nthat's their business. \n", "From: _Quantum_ Magazine, March/April 1993 pages 42-46\n\n\tThe Problem Book of Anania of Shirak\n\t------------------------------------\n\n\t\t\"On the ancient peak of Ararat\n\t\tThe centuries have come like seconds\n\t\tAnd passed on.\"\n\t\t\t\t-Avetik Issahakian\n\nby Yuri Danilov\n\nSome years ago Journalists interviewing celebrities liked to ask them: \"What\nbooks would you take with you if you were to go off on a space flight?\" And \nthough the number of books allowed on the trip varied from 10 to 30, \ndepending on the type of spacecraft and the generosity of the interviewer, \nand celebrities are people of the most varied tastes, ages, and professions, \nnot one of them dared to say that he or she would want to take with them at\nleast one book of arithmetic problems.\n\nSome of these people certainly excluded this kind of literature because they \nwere trained in the humanities and had nothing but scorn for \"numbers\" (though \nsecretly afraid of them). Others steered clear of such puzzle books because \nthey were masters of incomparably more difficult branches of modern \nmathematics and didn't mind saying for all the world to hear that they didn't \nknow how to solve mere arithmetic problems. Professional mathematicians were \nno exception. Here's what the Russian mathematician Alexander Khinchin, a \nspecialist in statistics, wrote about arithmetic: \"I willingly confess that \nany time a fifth-grader asked me to help solve an arithmetic problem, it was\na hard work for me, and sometimes I failed completely. Of course, like most of \nmy friends, I could easily solve the problem by the natural algebraic route\n--constructing equations or sets of equations. But we were supposed to avoid \nusing algebraic analysis at all costs! . . . By the way, it's a fact that is \nwell known and oft repeated that, as a rule, neither high school graduates, \nnor students at teaching colleges, nor teachers beginning their careers\n(nor, I must add, scientific researchers) can solve arithmetic problems. It \nseems the only people in the world who are able to solve them are fifth-grade \nteachers.\"\n\nNow, I'm not insisting that a book of arithmetic problems be included in the \nbookbag of anyone flying into space. But a sense of justice induces me to \nrecommend one particular problem book, one that will satisfy the most \nfastidious taste and supply food for thought sufficient not only for a \nrelatively short flight to the Moon but for a extended space voyage--say, to\nVenus and back.\n\n\t\t\tOne for the \"road\"\n\n\tThey both took out the books they brought for the road. Kingsley \n\tglanced at the Royal Astronomer's book and saw a bright cover with \n\ta group of cutthroats shooting at each other with revolvers. \"God \n\tknows what this kind of stuff leads to,\" thought Kingsley.\n\n\tThe Royal Astronomer looked at Kingsley's book and saw the History \n\tof Herodotus. \"Good Lord, next he'll be reading Thucydides,\" thought \n\tthe Royal Astronomer.\n\t\t\t\t\t--Fred Hoyle, The Black Cloud\n\nThe book I'm talking about isn't very big, but its 24 problems constitute 24 \nelegant miniatures from seventh-century Armenia. Naive and wise at the same\ntime, rich in striking detail and the bright coloration of the period, these \nproblems are reminiscent of the reliefs on the famous monument of Armenian \narchitecture, the church on the island of Akhtamar in Lake Van (in what is \nnow Turkey_. They are as inseparable from the image of Armenia as the elegant \nletters of the Armenian alphabet, invented by Mesrop Mashtots, or the songs of \nKomitas, or the paintings of Saryan.\n\nAn edition of these incredibly beautiful problems has long been a \nbibliographic rarity. It was published under the title Problems and Solutions\nof Vardapet [1] Anania of Shirak, Armenian Mathematician of the Seventh \nCentury (translated and published by I. A. Orbeli, Petrograd, 1918).\n\nThe abundance of close observations and wide-ranging information about the way \nof life and customs of that remote epoch when Anania of Shirak lived and \nworked have actually rendered a disservice to his problem book. For many years \nthe book was known only to researchers in the humanities--specialists in \nArmenian history who jealously guarded their treasure and wouldn't let just\nanyone see it. Even now, after research by K. P. Patkanov, the learned monk \nFather Kaloust, J.I. Orbeli, A. Abramyan, V. K. Chaloyan, and others has \nbrought the works of Anania of Shirak to light in scholarly circles, the \ngeneral reader remains ignorant of the very existence of this remarkable \nproblem book.\n\n\t\tVardapet Anania of Shirak\n\n\tOnce fell in love with the art of calculation, I thought that no \n\tphilosophical notion can be constructed without number, considering \n\tit the mother of all wisdom.\n\t\t\t\t\t--Anania of Shirak\n\nAmong ancient Armenian thinkers, Vardapet Anania of Shirak stands out because \nof the breadth of his interests and the unique mathematical orientation of his \nwork. Some of his works have been preserved. In addition to the Problems and\nSolutions, the following tracts have found a special place in the estimation\nof scholars: On Weights and Measures, Cosmography and Calendrical Theory, and\nArmenian Geography of the Seventh Century A.D. (the authorship of the last\nwork was long attributed to another outstanding thinker of ancient Armenia, \nMovses of Khoren).\n\nIn his autobiography, Anania of Shirak has this to say about himself:\n\n\tI, Anania of Shirak, having studied all the science of our\n\tArmenian land and having learned the Holy Scripture intimately, \n\tin the expression of the psalmist, \"every day I illuminated the \n\teyes of my mind.\" Feeling myself lacking in the art of calculation,\n\tI came to the conclusion that it is fruitless to study philosophy, \n\tthe mother of all sciences, without number. I could find in Armenia \n\tneither a man versed in philosophy nor books that explained the \n\tsciences. I therefore went to Greece and met in Theodosiople a man \n\tnamed Iliazar who was well versed in ecclesiastical works. He told me\n\tthat in Forth Armenia [2] there lived a famous mathematician,\n\tChristosatur. I went this person and spent six months with him. But \n soon I noticed that Christosatur was a master not of all science but \n only of certain fragmentary facts.\n\n\tI then went to Constantinople, where I met acquaintances who told me: \n\t\"Why did you go so far, when much closer to us, in Trebizon, on the \n\tcoast of Pontus [3] lives the Byzantine vardapet Tyukhik. He is full \n\tof wisdom, is known to kings, and knows Armenian literature.\" I asked \n\tthem how they knew this. They answered: \"We saw ourselves that many \n\tpeople traveled long distances to become pupils of so learned a man. \n\tIndeed the archdeacon of the patriarchate of Constantinople,\n\tPhilagrus, traveled with us, bringing many young persons to become \n\tpupils of Tyukhik.\" When I heard this, I expressed my gratitude to \n\tGod, who had quenched the thirst of His slave.\n\n\tI went to Tyukhik at the monastery of St. Eugene and explained why I \n\tHe sent you to learn and to transplant science in the domain of St. \n\tGregory; I am glad that all your country will learn from me. I myself \n\tlived in Armenia for many years as a youth. Ignorance reigned there.\" \n\tVardapet Tyukhik loved me as a son and shared all his thoughts with \n\tme. The Lord bestowed upon me His blessing: I completely assimilated \n\tthe science of number, and with such success that my fellow students\n\tat the king's court began to envy me.\n\n\tI spent eight years with Tyukhik and studied many books that had not \n\tbeen translated into our language. For the vardapet had an innumerable \n\tcollection of books: secret and explicit, ecclesiastical and pagan, \n\tbooks on art, history, and medicine, books of chronologies. Why \n\tenumerate them by title? In a word, there is no book that Tyukhik did \n\tnot have. And he had such a gift from the Holy Spirit for translating\n\tthat when he sat down to translate something from the Greek into \n\tArmenian, he did not struggle as other translators did, and the \n\ttranslation read as if the work were written in that language \n\toriginally.\n\n\tTyukhik told me how he had achieved such vast erudition and how he had \n\tlearned the Armenian language. \"When I was young,\" he said, \"I lived \n\tin Trebizon, at the court of the military chief Ioannus Patricus, and \n\tfor a long time, up to the accession of Mauritius to the throne I \n\tserved as a military man in Armenia and learned your language and \n\tliterature. During one attack by Persian troops on the Greeks, I was \n\twounded and escaped to Antioch. I lost all my possessions. Praying to \n\tthe Lord to heal my wounds, I made a promise: \"If You prolong my life, \n\tI shall dedicate it not to accumulating perishable treasures but to \n\tcollecting treasures of knowledge.\" And the Lord heard my prayers. \n\tAfter I recovered I went to Jerusalem, and from there to Alexandria \n\tand Rome. Upon returning to Constantinople, I met a famous philosopher \n\tfrom Athens and studied with him for many years. After that I returned \n\tto my homeland and began to teach and instruct my people.\"\n\n\tAfter some years that philosopher died. Not finding a replacement for \n\thim, the king and his courtiers sent for Tyukhik and invited him to \n\tassume the teacher's position. Tyukhik, citing the promise he made to \n\tGod not to move far from the city, turned down the offer. But because\n\tof his wide leaning, people came streaming from all countries to study \n\twith him.\n\n\tAnd I, the most insignificant of all Armenians, having learned from \n\thim this powerful science, desired by kings, brought it to our \n\tcountry, supported by no one, obligated only to my own industry, God's \n\thelp, and the prayers of the Blessed Educator. And no one thanked me \n\tfor my efforts.\n\n\t\t\t\tProblems and Solutions\n\n\tA half and one sixth and one nine-ninth of all the books were printed\n\ton verge'; one fifth and one two-hundred-eighty-fifth--on rag paper; \n\tone forty-fifth and one eight-hundred-fifty-fifth--on vellum, and \n\tforty-five inscribed copies--on Dutch paper. And so, find how many \n\tcopies were printed in all.\n\t\t\t\t\t--Imitation of Anania of Shirak\n\nA Latin proverb says habent sua fata libelli (\"books have their own fate\").\nThe fate of Problems and Solutions by Anania of Shirak is quite amazing. The\nmanuscripts of Anania's book were preserved only because, according to \nArmenian historians, \"in ancient and medieval Armenia manuscripts were guarded \nfrom invaders, like weapons, and cherished, like one's own children.\" Biding\ntheir time, the manuscripts lay in the Matenadaran, a renowned depository of \nancient manuscripts (now the Mesrop Mashtots Institute of Ancient Manuscripts).\nAnd its hour finally arrived. In 1896 the learned monk Father Kaloust used two \nmanuscripts to publish the problem book, supplementing it with an introduction \nand commentary. In 1918 the book was translated into Russian, edited, \nannotated, and typeset by Iosef Orbeli, a prominent scholar (and later a \nmember of the Academy of Sciences of the USSR).\n\nIn the translator's words, the problems of Anania are \"amusing, full of life, \nand simple.\" Orbeli goes on to say: \"The subjects of the problems are \ngenerally taken from everyday life. The scene is predominantly his homeland \nShirak and the surrounding countryside, and the dramatis personae, if they are \nnamed, are the local princes--the Kamsarakans, including Nersekh, who was a \ncontemporary of Anania.\" Like other ancient authors, Anania of Shirak used \nonly \"aliquots\" -- that is, fractions with a numerator of 1. When it is\nnecessary to write fractions with numerators other than 1, one has to \nrepresent it as a sum of aliquots (see the epigraph above).\n\nLike any true work of art, the problems of Anania suffer terribly in the \nretelling. You have to read the originals (albeit in translation) in their \nfull glory. So let's open Anania's problem book--a gift from across the ages.\n\nProblems 1 and 8 relate to the Armenian uprising against the Persians in A.D. \n572.\n\nProblem 1\n\nMy father told me the following story. During the famous wars between the \nArmenians and the Persians, prince Zaurak Kamsarakan performed extraordinary \nheroic deeds. Three times in a single month he attacked the Persian troops. \nThe first time, he struck down half of the Persian army. The second time, \npursuing the Persians, he slaughtered one fourth of the soldiers. The third \ntime, he destroyed one eleventh of the Persian army. The Persians who were \nstill alive, numbering two hundred eighty, fled to Nakhichevan. And so, from \nthis remainder, find how many Persian soldiers there were before the massacre.\n\nProblem 8\n\nDuring the famous Armenian uprising against the Persians, when Zaurak\nKamsarakan killed Suren, one of the Armenian azats[4] sent an envoy to the\nPersian king to report the baleful news. The envoy covered fifty miles in a \nday. Fifteen days later, when he learned of this, Zaurak Kamsarakan sent \nriders in pursuit to bring the envoy back. The riders covered eighty miles in \na day. And so, find how many days it took them to catch the envoy.\n\nProblem 18 mentions vessels made of varying amounts of metal. In the Russian \ntranslation, they are all called \"dishes.\" But in the original Armenian, \naccording to Orbeli's note, the dishes in the first and second instances are \ncalled mesur, and in the third instance scutel. Scutel is a common Armenian \nword, but mesur had not been encountered in Armenian literature before \nAnania's Problems and Solutions.\n\nProblem 18\n\nThere was a tray in my house. I melted it down and made other vessels from the \nmetal. From one third I made a mesur; from one fourth, another mesur; from\none fifth, two goblets; from one sixth, two scutels; and from two hundred ten \ndrams, I made a bowl. And now, find the weight of the tray.\n\nSeveral of the problems reflect the richness of the Caucasian fauna in \nAnania's time -- for instance, problem 7.\n\nProblem 7\n\nOnce I was in Marmet, the capital of the Kamsarakans. Strolling along the bank \nof the river Akhuryan, I saw a school of fish and ordered that a net be cast. \nWe caught a half and a quarter of the school, and all the fishes that slipped\nout of the net ended up in a creel. When I looked in the creel, I found \nforty-five fishes. And now, find how many fishes here were in all.\n\nThe temptation is great to present all 24 problems. But I'll restrain myself\nand offer you just one more.\n\nProblem 20 provides some interesting information about the wild animals that \ninhabited Armenia at one time but now extinct for so long that there is no\nmention of them even in zoological reference books. The wild donkey, according \nto the generally accepted view, never roamed the Armenian lands. Yet Anania of \nShirak offers evidence to the contrary .\n\nProblem 20\n\nThe hunting preserve of Nersekh Kamsarakan, ter[5] of Shirak and Asharunik, \nwas at the base of the mountain called Artin. One night great herds of wild\ndonkey entered the preserve. The hunters could not cope with the donkeys and, \nrunning to the village of Talin, told Nersekh about them. When he arrived with\nhis brothers and azats and entered the preserve, they began killing the wild \nbeasts. Half of the animals were caught in traps, one fourth were killed by \narrows. The young, which constituted one twelfth of all the animals, were \ncaught alive, and three hundred sixty wild donkeys were killed by spears. And \nso, find how many beasts there were at the start of this massacre.\n\n\t\t\"Set in type by me, Iosef Orbeli\"\n\n\tHis biography could not be squeezed into the framework of a \n\tbibliography.\n\t\t\t\t-- K Uzbashyan, Academician\n\t\t\t\t\tIosef Abgarovich Orbeli\n\nAnyone who is lucky enough to hold a copy (1/n of the small printing--n is the \nsolution to the epigraph in the previous section) of the Russian translation \nof Anania of Shirak's Problems and Solutions, a thin book with yellowed pages,\nhas probably noticed the variety of the fonts, the elegance of the borders, \nand the high quality of the design, printing, and binding. Such great \nattention to detail is characteristic of works that fulfill a requirement for \na degree in bookmaking. And this problem book was indeed a kind of diploma \nattesting to the professional maturity of the man who created it. An \nadvertisement at the end of the book reads: \"This book was typeset in \nDecember 1917 at the printing offices of the Russian Academy of Sciences by \nme, Iosef Orbeli; the text was also proofread, laid out, and decorated with \nborders by me. Various circumstances prevented me from carrying this project \nto the end; the final pages of the book were typeset by M. Strolman.\"\n\nTypesetting was neither the first nor the only profession of the renowned \norientalist Iosef Orbeli, who later became the director of the Hermitage \nMuseum in Leningrad. He was also a cabinetmaker and a locksmith. Orbeli had \nalready become acquainted with the famous academic printing house Typis \nAcademiae, founded in 1728 and known all over the scientific world for its \nrich collection of fonts and its virtuoso typesetters. In preparing to publish \nthe corpus of ancient inscriptions preserved on the walls of Armenian \nchurches, Orbeli found it necessary to create a new font that would preserve \nthe unique signs and ligatures. This complicated work was done by M. G.\nStrolman. (Unfortunately the entire set of letters was destroyed during the \nblockade of Leningrad in World War II.)\n\nWhen Orbeli came to the printing offices of the Academy of Sciences, times \nwere hard. The only way to publish the newly translated Problems of Anania\nwas for Orbeli to learn typesetting (he had always been attracted to the \nprinter's craft). In 1922 Orbeli became the director of printing at the \nAcademy of Sciences. Even after he retired, he remained a tireless champion\nof Russian academic typography.\n\n\t\t\tBack to Earth\n\n\tThis book by definition does not exhaust all the most important \n\tworks in this domain. The editor hopes that those who are guilty \n\tof this incompleteness will read these lines and, stung by shame, \n\twill work up, if not a collection like this, at least a monograph.\n\n\t\t\t--V. Bonch-Bruyevich introduction to the\n\t\t\tRussian translation of Solid-Body\n\t\t\tSymmetry by R. Knox and A. Gold\n\nLet's imagine a time when space flight is an everyday thing, and high \nschoolers will spend their breaks as astronauts-in training in the Perelman \ncrater on the far side of the Moon. Maybe one of the space travelers will take \nthis very copy of Quantum, and another, looking over her shoulder, will read \nthis article and say to himself: \"This Anania from Shirak seems like a pretty \ninteresting guy. When I get home I'll try to find his problems.\"\n\nGood luck, my young friend! Anania is sure to entertain you. Perhaps by then\nthere will be more than n copies of his timeless Problems and Solutions. And \nwe can hope they will be as lovingly printed as the masterpieces created by \nIosef Orbeli.\n\n[1] Vardapet (or vartabed) means teacher or learned man in Armenian. (The\n Armenian language suffers in English from a dual transliteration scheme.\n Thus, Mesrop is often rendered as \"Mesrob\", Komitas as \"Gomidas,\" and so \n on).\n\n[2] Fourth Armenia was one of fifteen provinces into which, according to\n Armenian Geography in the Seventh Century A.D., so-called Great Armenia\n was divided.\n\n[3] \"Pontus\" (or \"Pontus Euxinus\") was an old name for the Black Sea.\n\n[4] \"Azats\" were members one of several strata of freemen in ancient Armenia.\n\n[5] \"Ter\" was the title of the heads of sovereign royal families in ancient \n Armenia.\n\n", "I have the following busines books/best sellers for sale. All in excellent\norder. If you are interested email me an offer...\n\n 1. Zapp: The Lightning of Empowerment..............William Pyham, Jeff Cox\n Harmony Books\n\n 2. Beware the Naked Man Who Offers You His Shirt...Harvey Mackay\n William, Morrow & Co\n\n 3. What They Still Don't Reach You at Harvard .....Mark H. McCormack\n Bantam Books\n\n 4. Megatrends 2000: 10 New Directions for the 90's.John Nisbitt/P. Aburdene\n William, Morrow & Co\n\n 5. Phone Power....................................George Walther\n Putnam Books\n\n 6. What Every Supervisor Should Know..............Liester R Bittel, J.Newstrom\n McGraw-Hill\n\n 7. MaxiMarketing: New Directions in Advertising...Stan Rapps, Tom Collins\n McGraw-Hill\n\n 8. Outsmarting The Competition....................John McGongale, Jr\n Sourcebooks\n\n 9. Professional Speaking..........................Lilyan Wilder\n Simon & Schuster\n\n10. Managing Management Time......................William Ocken Jr.\n Prentice Hall\n\n11. Getting Praised Raised and Recognized........Muriel Solomon\n Prentice Hall\n\n12. Getting What You Want: How to Reach Agreement..Kare Anderson\n Dutton\n\n13. Let's Talk Quality..........................Philip B. Crosby\n McGraw Hill\n\n14. Frontal Attack, Divide and Conquer.........Richard Buskirk\n Wiley\n\n15. Den of Thieves...........................James B. Stewart\n Simon & Schuster\n\n16. 20/20 Vision..............................Stanley Davis, Bill Davidson\n Fireside: Simon & Schuster\n\nIf you are intersted, email please.", "\nThere it is. The Constitution isn't for \"sociopaths\", only \"normal\"\npeople, eh? We mustn't allow our Constitution to be cheapened by applying\nit to everybody, eh?\n\nYou disgust me.", "This has troubled me for a long time and needs to be dealt with.\n\nFrom a long article Available through an individual on this newsgroup.\n\nAbout scripture being against homosexuality:\n------------------------------------------\nWhen we are\nless homophobic we will see that what we know as gay and lesbian people,\nengaging in loving, voluntary erotic relations with each other, aren't even\nmentioned. [in the Bible, tk]\n------------------------------------------\n\nThis frightens me (not in the homophobic sense, but intellectually),\nespecially because it was written by someone from a homosexual church.\n\nSo, if my interpretation is different than theirs, I am homophobic! This\ncan't be right. Disagreement in interpretation of the Bible and/or rejection\nof homosexual acts is not tantamount of homophobia.", "\n\nWait a minute. I agree with you that people have to take responsibility\nfor their own behavior (I assume that's what you meant by the word\n\"account\"), but also for \"the behavior of their immediate community\"?\n\nFirst of all, how \"immediate\" are you talking about, and secondly, I\nhave a lot of trouble with any theory of social behavior or justice\nwhich charges anyone with the duty of taking responsibility for or\naccounting for the actions of a different person...", " ^^^^^^^^^^^\n \tnit: Is he unable to type the first 'h' in this word? ;-)\n\n\n\n\tAs a matter of fact D.J., it does make a difference.\n\tAlmost a half million new users joined the Internet last year,\n\tmany of them are commercial businesses. The ban on commercial\n\tuse of Internet is no more.\n\n\tOne should have the breeding not to post commercial material\n\ton an account provided by ones employer or school, unless the\n\tprovider of such account gives permission. (HA!)\n\n\tThose of us who pay for Internet access are constrained only\n\tby our innate good taste and no have no \"administrator\" to \n\tguide(?) us.", "\nSince you asked, Article I Section 1. Article I Section 8. Article I \nSection 10. Article II Section 2. Article VI. Sixteenth Amendment.\n\nWith this as a guide, try reading it yourself.\n\njsh\n", "\nI missed the presentations given in the morning session (when Shea gave\nhis \"rambling and almost inaudible\" presentation), but I did attend\nthe afternoon session. The meeting was in a small conference room. The\nspeaker was wired with a mike, and there were microphones on the table for\nthe panel members to use. Peons (like me) sat in a foyer outside the\nconference room, and watched the presentations on closed circuit TV. In\ngeneral, the sound system was fair to poor, and some of the other\nspeakers (like the committee member from the Italian Space Agency)\nalso were \"almost inaudible.\"\n\nShea didn't \"lead the formal presentation,\" in the sense of running\nor guiding the presentation. He didn't even attend the afternoon\nsession. Vest ran the show (President of MIT, the chair of the\nadvisory panel).\n", "# # # And now those \"other options\" don't exist. We probably agree on this\n# # # more than you think--welfare was invented to solve a problem of the\n# # # 30's, but the poverty is now so much worse, and our economic infra-\n# # # structure has been so eroded, that it just can't keep up any more.\n# \n# # You mean, since your philosophy took over, the economy has almost\n# # collapsed.\n# \n# Excuse me, *my* philosophy? You don't have any idea what *my* philosophy\n# is. The American economy has had its ups and downs through a number of\n# prevailing economic philosophies. But then, economics is hardly a science.\n\nIn my lifetime, your philosophy -- socialism masquerading as a liberal\nwelfare state -- has been in ascendancy.\n\n# No, I mean exactly what I wrote--the welfare system of the New Deal is\n# wholly inadequate to cope with the current state of affairs.\n\nAbsolutely. So the response of socialists is take us even further\ninto socialism.\n\n# # # # # (2) Whether or not the fathers work\n# # # # # is not germane to single mothers.\n# \n# # # # Very true. But the promotion of casual sexuality is something that\n# # # # plays a part in the single mother problem.\n# \n# # # I'll buy that--and there's lots of reasons for it, extremely far down on\n# # # the list being the flash-in-the-pan media attention a bunch of middle-\n# # # class dropouts got for their philosophy and experimentation. \n# \n# # Flash-in-the-pan? No, your subculture has utterly dominated the\n# # TV and movie industries for two decades now.\n# \n# *My* subculture? My, we're getting personal. The only subculture I see\n# dominating the TV and movie industries is *money*. If you'll buy it,\n# they'll sell it. And as recent movements to boycott TV advertisers have\n# shown, they're *very* sensitive about what sells. Whatever happened to\n# personal responsibility, anyway? Or am I personally responsible for\n# the decline in that, too?\n\nTo the extent that people have been encouraged to NOT be responsible\nfor themselves, yes.\n\n# # # # Come on. You and I both know that the major problem of this society\n# # # # today isn't a lack of employment, it's a lack of people willing to work.\n# \n# # # Huh??? Tell that to the single mother I know who was laid off from\n# # # her $10/hour job at a hospital and now works 2 full-time minimum-\n# # # wage jobs to barely be able to support herself and her kid. *Barely.*\n# # # Hey, she's too proud to go on public assistance, but the only jobs\n# # # she can find are menial and with no benefits. And no career path\n# # # either--they find excuses to lay people off and hire new ones rather\n# # # than give raises and perks. And why not? It's a lot cheaper.\n# \n# # Oddly enough, all the unskilled or semiskilled people I know manage\n# # to find employment almost immediately. Maybe she needs to move to a\n# # cheaper part of the country, where jobs are plentiful, and the cost\n# # of living is lower.\n# \n# The west side of Chicago is about as cheap as it gets--squalor city.\n# Tell me about all these places where it's cheap to live and jobs are\n# abundant--I'll pass them on.\n\nSonoma County.\n\n# You live in a strange and wondrous place, sir. Inexpensive housing,\n\nNot exactly cheap, but not Los Angeles, either.\n\n# lots of employment, and utterly surrounded by socialists. Well, I suppose\n# that's the sort of environment that would attract socialists, or at least\n# not dissuade them.\n\nNo, it's that areas with a lot of wealthy breed socialists -- all the\nspoiled rich kids, feeling guilty about their wealth. But not guilty\nenough to give it away -- they just look for politicians to take MY\nmore limited wealth away.\n\n# # # I see a lot of people willing--nay, eager--to work. What I don't see\n# # # is a system that makes it at all feasible to do so. It's not just\n# # # welfare, which nobody enjoys, but there just aren't the jobs any more.\n# # # When the US was expanding industrial capacity there was always a mill\n# # # to go work in--skills to learn, a future. Now there's only McDonalds.\n# \n# # Odd. Not the experience of anyone I know. Just the opposite.\n# \n# In California???\n\nYup.\n\n# # # Mr. Cramer, I was there: Hippiedom was a very low-budget operation.\n# # # Our drugs were cheap.\n# \n# # The money I was referring to was Aid to Families with Druggie \n# # Cohabitators (AFDC).\n# \n# Well, I doubt that much of this goes to drugs--there isn't much left after\n# buying food, and there is very little in the first place. Sure, you read\n# about such cases now and then, but that's what makes them news. Show me\n# your statistics about AFDC abuse.\n\nI can tell you that relatives I have known, the drugs came first, the\nfood was secondary.\n\n# Ken Perlow ***** *****", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n James Madison, Federalist Paper 41:\n\n \"It has been urged and echoed, that the power ``to lay and\n collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises, to pay the debts,\n and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the\n United States,'' amounts to an unlimited commission to exercise\n every power which may be alleged to be necessary for the common\n defense or general welfare...\n\n \"No stronger proof could be given of the distress under which\n these writers labor for objections, than their stooping to such a\n misconstruction. Had no other enumeration or definition of the\n powers of the Congress been found in the Constitution, than the\n general expressions just cited, the authors of the objection\n might have had some color for it; ... But what color can the\n objection have, when a specification of the objects alluded to by\n these general terms immediately follows, and is not even\n separated by a longer pause than a semicolon? ... Nothing is\n more natural nor common than first to use a general phrase, and\n then to explain and qualify it by a recital of particulars.\n-- ", "\n\nNot recommended. Your circuit would take too much current, when\ntelephone is on-hook. Telephone company does not like it.\n\n", "\n----------", "\n\n\tOther people have already shown this to be a rediculous\nproposal. however, I wanted to point out that there are many people\nwho do not think that affirmative action is a either intelligent or\nproductive. It is demeaning to those who it supposedly helps and it\nis discriminatory.\n\n\tAny proposal based on it is likely bunk as well.\n\nAdam\n\nAdam Shostack \t\t\t\t adam@das.harvard.edu", "\n\n\n\nIt sure did!\n\n\nI have; and all the above teach me that accurately perceiving reality \nis a tricky business -- _not_ that there's no reality.\n\n--\nMark Pundurs", "\nI know that \"must\" is a verb in some languages. I'm complaining\nabout the assertion containing the word must.", " \n\n And another one:\n\nHasn't enyone heard of a leader's recon? This is when the leader of the\nassult goes and looks at the objective to see if anything has changed that\nwould affect the mission. Even the Freshman cadets here in ROTCland\nknow about them. Mostly because they know it as the part where they \nlie on the cold ground for an hour or so, but they've heard about it.\nMaybe the ATF should have hired out to the local ROTC guys!\n\n\n-- \nAndrew Diederich diederic@spot.colorado.edu", "\nIt's NOT the concrete floor that does it. The problem is that lead-acid\ncells self discharge over time. Even high quality cells (Gates for instance)\nwill discharge 50-60% over a 3-5 month period of time. Non-sealed cells\nself discharge even faster. If the battery was not completly charged\nwhen left sitting, it probably discharged past the the point where cell\nsulfiding occurs, which in many cases means a ruined battery.", ": >There is a wire without any jack at the end sticking out of the wall. So you\n: >need to connect the wires (I'm not sure if they have wall jacks in Western\n: >Europe - they may).\n: \n: Son of the Return of the \"How much does Americans know about the rest of\n: the word?\"-flamewar anyone?\n\n Well, Bertil, you might laugh, but in many places here in Austria, there are\nno wall jacks yet, either - just wires sticking out of the wall (and put into\na closed, often sealed, box) :-)\n As far as I remember from Germany, it is a nicely mixed situation - somebody\nhad wires sticking, somebody had jacks...\n On the other hand, everywhere in Bohemia I have seen wall jacks, and never\nseen just wires sticking out of the wall... And I thought Slovakia was the\nsame case. Well...\n\n \"How much do Scandinavians know about the rest of Europe?? :-))\"\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tTom\n-- ", "\n\n\n\n\nThe problem is, your use of the word \"objective\" along with \"values.\"\nBoth definitions three and four are inherently subjective, that is\nthey are particular to a given individual, or personal. You see,\nwhat one person may see as worthwhile, another may see as worthless.\n\n\nAgain, your form of measurement in this sentence, that being of \"worth\"\nis subjective. \n\n\n\nWhen I find that my usage of a word is different than the usage of\nthat word given by another person, I try to find a standard against\nwhich to judge that usage. In most cases, the dictionary is the standard\nI use. Here is a definiton of objective:\n\nobjective ADJ. 1. Of or having to do with a material object as \ndistinguished from a mental concept. 2. Having actual existance.\n3.a. Unenfluenced by emotion or personal prejudice. b. Based on\nobservable phenomenon.\n\nBy this definition, science does not have an objective worth, since the\nphrase \"objective worth\" is an oxymoron. However you asked something a \nlittle differently this time, you asked for an objective basis for a\nnotion. The fact that the use of science as an intellectual tool is\nresponsible for changes in our world (the changes are material, and\nthus \"objective\") would provide an objective _basis_ for an argument.\nHowever, the conclusion arrived at from that argument (that science is \n\"good\") is subjective.\n\nI think that the problem here is one of word usage. Take a little time\nand read the definitions of these words: objective, subjective, worth,\nvalue, morality, good, evil. I believe that if you think about the \nmeaning of them for a while, you will have to conclude that there is no\nsuch thing as an objective morality.\n", "\n\n\n\n\tBut hanging is certainly painful. Or, do you not let the condemned \nknow they are going to die?\n\n\n\n\tHanging is not supposed to be very pleasant. I believe that in \nactuality, it is not \"quick and clean\". However, gas chambers can be\nquite non-painful. Heck, why not give them a good time? Suffication by\nNitrious Oxide!\n\n\t=)\n\n\n---\n\nPrivate note to Jennifer Fakult.\n\n \"This post may contain one or more of the following:\n sarcasm, cycnicism, irony, or humor. Please be aware \n of this possibility and do not allow yourself to be \n confused and/or thrown for a loop. If in doubt, assume\n all of the above.", "\nThe final stages of denial... I can hardly imagine what the result\nwould have been if the Clinton administration had actually supported\nthis plan, instead of merely acquiescing with repugnance as they've so\nobviously doing. I don't believe the chip originated with the Clinton\nadministration either, but the Clinton administration has embraced it\nand brought it to fruition.\n\nBoth of the major parties have what they consider excellent reasons\nfor limiting your freedoms and violating your privacy, and even seem\nto feel that they're doing you a favor. If this is really surprising\nto anyone it means they've been willfully ignoring quite a bit of\nprevious evidence. There's only one political party (not calling\nanarchists a party) that considers your freedom and privacy goals\nworthy in and of themselves. If you're voting for the big two, you're\nsupporting a reduction of those rights (given their goals and their\nhistories), regardless of whether you personally support that\nreduction. To paint Clinton and Gore as unwitting tools is really\nstretching things.\n", "\n\n\nIt is the Serbs who were divided when Croatia and Bosnia-Hercegovina \nattempted to secede from Yugoslavia, ripping more than 2,000,000 Serbs\nand their property out of Yugoslavia. \n\nThe Croatian and Muslim nations had the right to secede, not the Republics.\nAdditionally, the secessions were to be negotiated, which would probably\nhave required international mediation; instead the secessions were illegal,\nunilateral, and acts of war against Yugoslavia and those who did not\nwant to be ripped out of Yugoslavia by the secessions.", "\nI was replying to a person who attempted to justify the fatwa\nagainst Rushdie on the grounds that his work was intentionally\ninsulting. \n\nI think that to take a single sentence from a fairly long\nposting, and to say \n\n\t\"I don't know if you are doing so, but it \n\tseems you are implying.....\"\n\nis at the very best quite disingenuous, and perhaps even\ndishonest. If anyone care to dig back and read the full\nposting, they will see nothing of the kind.\n\nI trust you don't deny that Islamic teaching has \"something\nto do\" with the fatwa against Rushdie?", "BIGOTRY\"\n\nBiden spoke well. Then there was John Major, the architect of the\nbetrayal of Bosnian Muslims to genocide. \n\nHe basically has given yet another green light to HVO Ustashe and\nMladic-Chetnik serial killers, rapists, and plunderers to continue their\ngenocide against Bosnian Muslims.\n\nBut Major met with Mr. Rushdie and said it was \"unacceptable\" that Iran\nshould have a death decree on him. While I disagree personally with\nFetwas against hack writers like Rushdie (it only helps them sell more\nbooks), I find it interesting that Mr. Major finds the genocide of two\nmillion Muslims in Bosnia acceptable, but a threat against one single\npopular British writer \"unacceptable.\"", " demon@desire.wright.edu (Not a Boomer) writes...\n\n\n\n\n\n\nFirst, people should be aware that Brett's (no last name listed) \nposts on bit.listserv.politics indicate that he has been \nhostile toward GM's hiring policies and to the Moseley verdict \nwhen it came out. Equal opportunity disagreement, I guess. :-)\n\nMy guess, without seeing the judge's opinion, is that GM's motion \nwas denied on due diligence grounds. Otherwise, a party to a \ncase could always keep one or two semi-credible witnesses in \nreserve to spring if they lose. Not exactly a way to promote \nrepose.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\tDaniel Reitman", "\nProbably not! The jesus freak's post is probably JSN104@PSUVM. Penn State\nis just loaded to the hilt with bible bangers. I use to go there *vomit* and\nit was the reason I left. They even had a group try to stop playing \nrock music in the dining halls one year cuz they deemed it satanic. Kampus\nKrusade for Khrist people run the damn place for the most part....except\nthe Liberal Arts departments...they are the safe havens.\n-wdb", "\n\nYour comment here is meant as a put down. It fails for several reasons :\n\n1) You have edited out the context of the action under discussion. \n2) I never brought the legal definition up. I use the English language\nand not the legal dialect. The legal definition of fraud changes from\none country to another in any case. The context of the discussion is morality\nof censorship.\n\n\n\n\nYou are extrapolating from the statement I made concerning a circumstance\nin which such an act of censorship would be permissable to the Teel case.\nIf you had bothered to read the post instead of trying to prove how stupid you\nthought me you would have done rather better. The mode of argument I was using\nwas a form of rhetoric. Argument by example, I describe a wide set of\ncircumstances in which an action is permisable and demonstrate that they\ndo not apply, thus the action is not permisable.\n\nObviously a company posting from a University adress would be squashed, it\nwould be contrary to the internet comercial use.\n\n\nNow you are clutching at straws. In the context of the discussion it was\nthe fact of association between the company and the post that was important.\nThe typeface etc is inconsequential.\n\n\n\nIf you are implying that I am lying I suggest you read Mark Holohan and Ulick\nStaffords posts into soc.culture.british. If you are suggesting that \nadvocating murder is a trivial matter I would prefer that you state it\ndirectly. \n\nCertainly I oppose the right of Dr Sidiqui and the Ayatolah Khomenhi to\ncall for the murder of Salman Rushdie. Incitement to murder is not part\nof what I consider legitimate freedom of speech.\n\n\n\nThat is irrelevant, the case is not the incremental cost but the facility\ncost. If I decide that a company I am associated with should subscribe\nto USEnet that usenet connection is the property of the company. It is\nquite legitimate for a company to have a political or other agenda and\nregulate the use of its property in accordance with its policy. For example\nif a Microsoft employee were to post \"Windows NT is crap don't buy it\"\nfrom a Microsoft machine I would consider it reasonable for Microsoft to\nsack that employee. In the same way if a company decides that it has \npolitical objectives it might wish to regulate postings in a political\nmanner. This is no worse than Rupert Murdoch using his papers as a political\nplatform for his views.\n\n\n\nah yes you did not quote them, merely refered to them.\n\n\n\nYour article consisted of a reference to the first ammendment, your signature\nand pretty well damn all else. \n\n\n\nAre you refering to the initial hearings on an injunction or the judgments\non the substantive case?\n\nThe initial hearings that the government won were judged on the not unresonable\njudgment that assertion by the government that the national interest might be\nharmed would be grounds for prior restraint. The second set of hearings on the\nsubstance judged that the government had no case and that the official secrets\nact could not be used to suppress information in thwe public domain already.\nThe part that they won was over the copyright issue which is rather separate.\n\nHere again the issue of censorship is rather different in the case that\ninformation is divulged on the understanding that it will not be communicated\nto third parties. The first ammendment certainly does not apply in this\ncase as the numerous prosecutions of spies in the US proves. \n\nThe crux of the Spycatcher affair was extrateritoriality of British law.\nThe censorship aspect of it arose as a result of the government's\nludicrous attempts to prevent summary of the case in the book. \n\n\n\nFunny I saw that as a rejection of an assertion that you had made. Of course in\nrejecting an assertion I have to make a contrary assertion, since this assertion\nis unprovable I left it at that. \n\nSo far I have not seen you demonstrate a command of the contrary opinion to your\nown. You are attacking my anti-censorship view because I dare to accept the\nvalidity of some pro-censorship arguments while rejecting their conclusions. \nPlus I am not an absolutist. I have this funny idea that the solution to this\nproblem was not decided in 1789 by a group of white male gentry in secret\nsession and sumarized in a single line. Furthermore I don't think that the\nissues are half as simple as you imply.\n\n\nI don't think that you have geered your discourse to any audience save that\nof proving that you are the only person wearing a white hat.\n", "\nAs one of the \"Clintonites\" cited above, I'll try to clarify since this\nis not a case of Clinton's \"dishonesty.\" (I won't necessarily defend him\non other issues.) \n\nThere were NEVER any specific projects included in the Community\nDevelopment Block Grant portion of the President's proposal. Congressional\nRepublicans, in an effort to discredit the stimulus package, selected what\nthey felt were silly sounding projects from a wish-list of POTENTIAL \nprojects prepared by the US Mayors' Conference before the stimulus package\nwas ever proposed. (The document in question was designed to pressure the\nWhite House to increase the size of the block grant proposal submitted\nto Congress. It didn't work.)\n\nThe $2.56(?) billion proposed in the stimulus package came nowhere close\nto covering the total estimated cost of the original wish-list. If it\nwere passed, communities would have to select which projects to fund and\nat what level.\n\nIn the case of Spokane, Wa., Tom Foley's home district, no one ever\nexpected to be able to refurbish a local swimming pool (one of the \nRepublicans' examples) FROM THE FUNDS AVAILABLE IN THE STIMULUS\nPACKAGE since the estimated cost of doing so exceeded the total \namount of block grant funds the city would receive from the stimulus \npackage for ALL projects. \n\nThe plan, instead, was to use the money on public housing construction\nand remodeling to cope with a severe housing shortage. (Yup, there are\nplaces where that is true.) The swimming pool improvements were near the\nbottom of a long list of priorities prepared by the city. The $3 million\nor so to be received would cover only a few of the most pressing\npriorities.\n\nIf the block grants are cut from the stimulus package, it is these projects\nthat will be affected by the lack of funds. And that is why the Clinton\nadministration has been publicizing the issue.\n\nA final point. One may or may not like community block grants. It is\nworth noting, however, that Congressional Republicans' opposition to them\nis new. Since the Nixon administration, Republicans have generally \nsupported such grants as an alternative to targeted federal spending,\narguing that local governments are far better able to determine spending\npriorities than \"Washington bureaucrats.\" \n\nIs it clear now? Or is this all too complicated to understand?\n\njsh", ":If the Clinton Clipper is so very good, why not make its algrithm public\n:so many people can exchange ideas and examine it, rather than a few\n:isolated 'respected experts' (respected by whom? for what? Perhaps a\n:certain professor who likes key banks would be one of the selected\n:experts... this does seem to expand on some ideas the person was\n:advocating, if I recall :-). How would anybody know that what the\n\nActually, I am *completely* baffled by why Dorothy Denning has chosen\nto throw away her academic respectability like this. It looks to me\nlike a *major* Career Limiting Move. There can be very few people\nwho know what she's been saying who take her seriously any more.\n\nI wonder if she landed such a fat fee from cooperation with the NSA in\nthe design and propoganda stages that she doesn't care any more?", "\n\n\n\n No, the Yanks are. We are are midway through our insipid invasion of \nFlorida and they aren't even aware of it yet.\n\n__\n Jorg Klinger | GSXR1100 | If you only new who\n Arch. & Eng. Services |\"Lost Horizons\" CR500 | I think I am. \n UManitoba, Man. Ca. |\"The Embalmer\" IT175 | - anonymous", "The Blessed Virgin Mary appeared to Catherine Laboure, a nun of the\nsisters of Charity on July 18, 1830 at Rue du Bac, Paris.\n\nSister Catherine was awakened late that night by a small boy, age 5\nor 6, who was literally glowing with some sort of interior light. \nThe child led her to the sanctuary of the chapel where he promised\nthe Virgin Mary was to be found awaiting her. Our Lady appeared to\nher and instructed her for two hours or more on matters pertaining\nto her life and to the future of France and the world.\n\nOn November 27 Our Lady appeared again to Catherine. She instructed\nher to have a medal struck. She told her that those who wore this \nmedal would enjoy special protection from the Mother of God and would\nreceive great graces. In less than a year there were three more\napparitions. In June of 1831 the medals were a reality. Many reports\nwere received by those who wore it. Within two years of its issuing\nthe medal was known as the \"Miraculous Medal\". Catherine died in 1876.\nHer body to this day is remarkably preserved (incorrupt). She was\ncanonized on July 27, 1947. Her body lies in the chapel at the\nmotherhouse on the Rue du Bac where she had her first meeting with\nOur Lady.\n\nThe apparition on November 27 1830 was of average height and clothed\nin white with a veil that flowed over the head and fell to the floor.\nAbove the altar, a pyramid painted to represent God's all knowing\nwisdom looked down on them. Our Lady's feet rested on a white globe\nand there was also a green serpent with yellow spots that she was\nstepping on. In her hands was a golden ball that represented the world.\nGreat streams of light issued from her hands and she also showed \nCatherine an image of two hearts, the Sacred Heart wrapped in\npiercing thorns and her own heart punctured by a sword. The sword\nrepresented her suffering with Jesus.\n\nThe apparitions announced the onset of the great battle and forewarned\nthat a dark era lay in the immediate future. It was the apparition \nleading up to the recent ones. Our Lady began to dispense secrets.\nAnd with the globe she revealed herself in worldwide dispute\nwith the forces of the dark. She told Catherine \"The times are\nevil. Misfortunes will fall upon France. The throne will be\noverturned. The entire world will be overcome by evils of all\nkinds.\"\n\nRefer to books on St. Catherine for more of Our Lady's messages.\nA copy of the medal is also available in Catholic bookstores.\n\nI will post other Marian events every few days or so including\nthe ones happening today which are still under investigation.\nThese postings serve only to introduce you to these events.\nPlease look more into them and understand the reason for \nthe increasing number and urgency of these apparitions.\n\n-- ", "\n\nIs the distinction important?\n\n\nWell, our moral system seems to mimic the natural one, in a number of ways.\n\n\nI don't know. What is wrong? Is it possible for humans to survive for\na long time in the wild? Yes, it's possible, but it is difficult. Humans\nare a social animal, and that is a cause of our success.\n\n\nIsn't it? Why don't you think so?\n\n\nNo. As noted earlier, lack of mating (such as abstinence or homosexuality)\nisn't really destructive to the system. It is a worst neutral.\n\n\nAgain, the mating practices are something to be reexamined...", "...\n\nThanks for posting the exact wording which I had not seen\npreviously. The part I quote above seems to me to indicate\ndisapproval of capital punishment - it is to be used only when\nother means are not sufficient; I would say this is a stronger\nrestriction than saying that capital punishment is useable when\njustifiable. I would certainly say there are cases where a\ncrime justifies death (perhaps this is the Old Testament\ninterpretation), but my reverence for life would say that I\nwould oppose the actual infliction of the death penalty (a New\nTestament interpretation?). It is a matter for debate whether\nthe death penalty works to keep the peace in a way that\nnon-violent provisions do not. I don't believe it does, and I\nwould certainly observe that in the USA, where you have the\ndeath penalty, there is a far higher murder rate than here in\nthe UK, where we do not.", "\n\n\n\nHere's a rough sketch of how the system works. A reference station\nwith a very exactly known position computes the errors in the\nincoming GPS signals. These errors are due to several factors\nincluding atmospheric distortion, SA (Selective Availability) time\ndithering, etc. The reference unit contains complex computational \nequipment to \"back out\" the errors in its position (since it knows\nwhere it is already). It then transmits these corrections on a \nbroadcast which is available to any number of relatively local\nreceivers. If the receivers are nearby (<300km) and are using\nthe same satellites as the reference unit, the errors should be very\nsimilar for the reference unit and the receiver unit. Thus, the\nreceiver unit may apply the corrections calculated by the reference\nunit.\n\nThe US Coast Guard is currently (as far as I know) installing a series\nof coastline transmitters for differential GPS. These stations will\nuse existing radio towers. I believe the frequency is to be approximately\n305 kHz. There are many other private corporations offering DGPS signals\non different frequencies. For example, PinPoint ((310)-618-7076) offers\ncorrection signals and receiver units using an FM broadcast system\nwhich has stations all across the US.\n\nThe correction codes are usually transmitted using the RTCM 104 format.\nAdvertised accuracies espouse 1 to 5 meter errors.\n\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\nJohn P. Baker | My opinions are my own. I don't know\nJohns Hopkins University | anyone else who wants them, anyway.\nApplied Physics Laboratory\t|\nLaurel, MD 20723 | bakerjp1@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu", "\n\n\n\nDo these CPU Fans also have heat sinks? Do you recommend using both\non the same chip (i.e. heat sink sandwiched between CPU and Fan)?\n\nIf we are just talking about a CPU Fan blowing directly on the CPU chip,\nI can't see how \"heat sink grease\" is necessary (or even desireable).\n-- \n\n=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=", "\nFishing rights are disputed. Between 2 nations, no matter *how* \nfriendly, there is ALWAYS fishing disputes.\n\nWhat I was getting at was the 54 40' or fight slogan is OLD STUFF\ndealing with the LAND dispute. No one is saying 54 40' or fight \nabout fishing rights. The territorial dispute about the Oregon\nTerritory (we called it) is LONG resolved.\n\nFishing rights...small potatoes.\n\n", "AL>> Question: Is there a certain device out there that I can\nAL>> use to find out the number to the line?\nAL>> Thanks for any response.\nAL>> Al\n\nAL>There is a number you can call which will return a synthesized\nAL>voice telling you the number of the line. Unfortunately, for the\nAL>life of me I can't remember what it is. The telephone technicians\nAL>use it all the time. We used to play around with this in our\nAL>dorm rooms since there were multiple phone lines running between\nAL>rooms.\n\nIt probably wouldn't help for you to post the number, since it appears\nto be different in each area. For what it's worth, in the New Orleans\narea the number is 998-877-6655 (easy to remember, what?)\n\n\n * SLMR 2.1 * Ask me anything: if I don't know, I'll make up something.\n ", "\n Precisely my position. \n\n As a newbie, I tried the point-by-point approach to debate with\n these types. It wasted both my time and my lifespan. Ignoring\n them is not an option, since they don't go away, and doing so\n would leave one with large stretches of complete anonymity in this\n group.\n\n What's left? Healthy flaming. I'm sure on occassion I've\n appeared to be little more than a caustic boob to some of the\n Bobby types. But why waste breath arguing with someone whose most\n rational though process involves his excretory system?\n\n And I stand by my record of recognizing these people long before\n most of the rest of the group. So let's see what this Timmons\n character has in store for us...\n\n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ \n\nBob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM \n\nThey said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,\nand sank Manhattan out at sea.", "\nInteresting development. Especially since the Feds (and the U.N.)\naccused Saddam Hussein of using illegal chemicals on his own \ncitizens as well. Hmmm... Republican Guard/Iraqu Army = FBI/BATF? \nYou decide.\n--\nI hope very much that others who will be tempted to join cults\nand to become involved with people like David Koresh will be\ndeterred by the horrible scenes they have seen over the last \nseven weeks. \n\n -President William Jefferson Clinton, April 20, 1993,\nat a press conferance held the day after the Branch Davidians \n\"compound\" went up in flames while under attack by the FBI/ATF\nnear Waco, Texas. Is your church U.S. Government approved?\n\nCONNECT THE GOD-DAMNED DOTS!!! Ministry, TV Song", "N(P>Just got a 66MHz 486DX2 system, and am considering getting a fan for the\nN(P>CPU. The processor when running is too hot to touch so I think this is a\nN(P>fairly good idea. (long ago when I did some electronics training I read\nN(P>somewhere that the regions within a chip that define junctions/gates etc\nN(P>slowly diffuse over time and this increases with temperature, hence a hot\nN(P>chip goes off-spec sooner)\n\nN(P>Has anyone out there got a CPU fan??\n\nI work for a small PC OEM. We offer both a personal and professional\nsystem line. Our 486 pro machines always have a CPU cooling fan on DX2\nand DX-50 units.\n\nN(P>Is there more than 1 type?\n\nThere are several manufacturers.\n\nN(P>Do you have to remove the CPU from its scoket to install the fan?\n\nSometimes - depends on the specific fan model.\n\nN(P>Do all CPU fans derive their power from spare drive power lines?\n\nAll the ones I've seen do; many come with a 'Y' connector, so you don't\nhave to have a \"spare\" connector.\n\nN(P>Anyone had any trouble with CPU fans?\n\nNone.\n\nN(P>Does anyone have any evidence that CPU fans are a complete waste of\nmoney?\n\nTouch a 486DX-50 chip after its been running a few minutes - you won't\nfeel the fan is a waste!\n\nN(P>How are these fans attached? (glue? clips? melted cheese?)\n\nDepends on the model. Many use clips - make sure you use heat sink\ngrease, or heat transfering tape, or you will have wasted your money.\n\nN(P>Roughly how much cooler will the CPU be with a fan as opposed to\nwithout? (an advert I've read claims 85F vs 185F)\n\nTough to tell - I do know the chip sheds a lot of heat.\n\n\n * SLMR 2.1a * Murphy was an optimist - Is your data backed up?\n", "Actually not Jim. I just said that everyone else seemed to have skimmed by\nthat part and not mentioned it. You can get whatever meaning you want from it.", "\n\n\n\t\tEXACTLY!! Read that one sentence in there...\"to the degree\n\tthat means other than the death penalty and military operations are\n\tsufficient to keep the peace, then these non-violent provisions are to\n\tbe preferred...\"\n\n\tI don't believe that it is necessary for us to murder criminals to keep\n\tthe peace; the Church in the United States feels the same way, thus the\n\treason that the Catholic Church has opposed every execution in this\n\tcountry in recent memory.\n\n\n\tSo what is justifiable? As you stated very explicitly from the new\n\tCatechism, the only justifiable case is when it is necessary to keep\n\tthe peace. Since that does not apply *at all* to this country, the\n\tlogical conclusion (based on your own premises) is that one must be\n\topposed to *any* form of capital punishment in America.\n", "\n\n >Bull shit. There is no reason in the world why we can't say that\n >taking views analogous to the KKK's or some such organization is\n >wrong. There is no reason why some morality may not be legislated. As\n >it is we do not allow theft, or murder, or rape. Why should we allow\n >hateful sppech whose only purpose is to stir anger and violence.\n >Harry.\n\n I think the answer to Mr. Mayamsky's question can be found in the\n\t \t\t ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^(Mr. Mamaysky's)\n first amendment to the US Constitution.\n\n\t Amendment I (1791)\n\n\t Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of\n\t religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or\n\t abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the\n\t right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition\n\t the government for a redress of grievances.\n\n Steve\n\nI do not say that freedom of speech should be banned. Far from it.\nI am merely suggesting that there are certain things which can be\nuniversally agreed to be morally incorrect. There are not many such\nthings. But there are some. As an example:\n\n(1) murder is morally incorrect\n\n(2) the idea that one group of people is somehow racially inferior to\nanother is morally incorrect\n\netc.\n\nThe point is that any action which serves to promote a morally\nincorrect action should be forbidden. This implies that no one has the\nright to say that an innocent person should be murdered. Regardless of\nfreedom of speech, I may not stand on a street corner and advocate the\nmurder of innocent people. The reason for this is that murder is a\nmorally incorrect action.\n\nIn the same way, since bigotry is morally incorrect in the narrow\ndefinition which we have given it, (2), I, nor any one else, has the\nright to stand on a street corner and promote bigotry. Such an\nenforcement does in no way deny any one their rights as guaranteed by\nthe first amendment. It merely ensures that no person may be the\ntarget of an attempt to deny him a fundamental moral right, such as\nthe right to not be murdered, and the right not to be discriminated\nagainst.\n\nI believe, Mr. Berson, that to blindly accept the constitution is a\nterrific mistake. We must cinstantly question the constitution and\ninterpret it in a way befitting the society in which we live. Anything\nshort of such an effort would render us little more than trained\nmonkeys, who are able to merely repeat what they have heard without\npaying the slightest bit of attention to the intent of the document in\nquestion.\n\nWould you disagree, Mr.Berson?", "I'm greatly in need of Jurgen\nMoltmann's book God in Creation:\nAn Ecological Doctrine of Creation.\n\nIf you have a copy you're willing to\npart with, I'd love to hear from you\nsoon. You may call me at 312-702-\n8367 or e-mail me.\n\nThanks.", "\n\n\nWord is that the ones he let go were not his.\n---\n ----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n ---------Visit the SOUNDING BOARD BBS +1 214 596 2915, a Wildcat! BBS-------\n\n \"Foot\" the Bill: let's get a new President.", "this is a test\n\n-- \n****************************************************************************\n", "\n [snip]\n\nHonest, it just ended like that, I swear! \n\nHmmmm...I recognize the warning signs...alternating polite and\nrude...coming into newsgroup with huge chip on shoulder...calls\npeople names and then makes nice...whirrr...click...whirrr\n\n\"Clam\" Bake Timmons = Bill \"Shit Stirrer Connor\"\n\nQ.E.D.\n\nWhirr click whirr...Frank O'Dwyer might also be contained\nin that shell...pop stack to determine...whirr...click..whirr\n\n\"Killfile\" Keith Allen Schneider = Frank \"Closet Theist\" O'Dwyer =\n\nthe mind reels. Maybe they're all Bobby Mozumder.\n\n-- \nMaddi Hausmann madhaus@netcom.com\nCentigram Communications Corp San Jose California 408/428-3553", "\n\nHow about calling someone with the Caller ID service and have them call you back\nwith the number?\n\n-- ", "The cited passages are covered IN DEPTH in a FAQ for this group.\nThat particular FAQ (I've forgotten the author) discusses the\ntraditional vs. pro-homosexual interpretations of the passages and\nindicates which points have strong textual support.\n\nPerhaps the moderator might give again the instructions for\nretrieving the FAQ on this topic?\n\nBTW, this issue, while dealt with before, is VERY timely. One\nof the major Presbyterian churches in California (St. Andrews -- a \nMegaChurch in a rich neighborhood) is withholding their support of \nSynod (amounts to about 10% of the budget of the Synod, which \ncovers all of Southern CA and Hawaii) until support for a \npro-homosexual lobbying group (the Lazarus Project) is terminated.\n[This came from a news report on CNN yesterday -- corrections welcome.]\n\t\t\t\t\tTim\n\n[I think it's time for me to post the FAQ. \n\nThis is an issue throughout the Presbyterian Church. On the other\nside, one of the major churches in Cincinnati has been ordaining\nhomosexual elders, and has ignored Presbytery instructions not to do\nso. And the church in Rochester where the judicial commission said\nthey couldn't install a homosexual pastor has made her an\n\"evangelist\". These situations, as well as the one you describe, do\nnot appear to be stable. This will certainly be a major topic for the\nGeneral Assembly next month. If the church can't come up with a\nsolution that will let people live with each other, I think we're end\nup with a split. Clearly neither side wants that, but I think we'll\nget pushed into it by actions of both sides.", "\tIn what way David? Our government is totally out of control,\n\twhether you realize it or not. I know you find it painful to\n\tthink of your old buddy Uncle Sam as evil but it's true. Other\n\tdemocracies have fallen before. Ours is on its way and knee-jerk\n\tsheep that instinctively trust government are helping it slide.\n\tPower corrupts David, why is that so hard to understand?\n\n", "\nHow about the name and number of the pin place. I would think that 115\nor so people calling to bitch about why orders placed after ours are getting\ndone first might speed things along.\n\nDean", "\n\n\nIs this the same Monolithic, Centrally Controlled Media that you're always\ntalking about? Do you mean to tell me that the LA Times is the ONLY major\npaper to buck the Media Spiking Division's activities?\n\n\n\n\nAssumption: When one major newspaper prints three or more articles on the front\npage regarding subject matter that is not strictly local, this is likely\nto be considered an open story, and not a coverup.\n \nLet's hear a roll call here. Anyone outside of the LA area seen articles on\nthis?\n\n\n___Samuel___\nMossad Special Agent ID314159\nMedia Spiking & Mind Control Division\nLos Angeles Offices (therefore, evidently, incompetent)", "\nYes, each is a form of the other.\n\nCharley an anarchist? No, just true words being spoken in jest.\n", "\n\n\nThat happens to be a subjective example that the people of the\nUS would happen to agree on. Continue to move the price up; \nat some point a few people would accept then more then more until \nprobably all would accept at a high enough number.\n\nEndpoints of a subjective scale are not the given homes of \nobjective viewpoints.", "\n If you happen to know a political position which does not\nhave people advocating it who do more harm than good, please point it\nout.\n \n\n One of the advantages and draw-backs of requiring proof\non the part of the government before they may take action against\ncitizens. (and part of the reason some of us believe weapons should\nbe available.)\n\n\n We are not arguing the absolute sanctity of the U.S.\nConstitution. In fact, the fillibuster we're talking about isn't\n*in* the Constitution. I objected to your suggestion that the Senate\nwasn't intended to exercise the power it was clearly given.\n\n\n I'll point out again that Reagan only had a Republican Majority\nin the Senate during his first term, and his coalition in the House\ncame apart at about the same time. Bush never had any real support in\nCongress.\n\n The real point is that everybody, *everywhere* got their pork,\nfrom the big corporations to the guy I saw last night leaving a\nconvenience store with an armful of junk-food he'd bought with\nfood stamps. (He spent more in food stamps on junk than I *make* in a week\nand I'm not on government assitance.)\n\n\n Lessee, let's pull out the old Almanac.\n\n In 1980, total U.S. government budget outlays were 590.9 billion\ndollars. In 1992 (est) they were 1.4754 trillion dollars, an increase of\napprox. 884 billion dollars.\n\n In 1980, National Defense cost 133.9 billion dollars. In\n192 it was 307 billion dollars, and increase of 174 billion dollars.\nThat leaves an increase of 710 billion dollars unaccounted\nfor. (This represented an increase of 230%)\n\n In 1980, Income Security (which includes retirement programs,\nHousing Assitance, and unemployment benefits, and I believe welfare)\ncost 86.5 billion dollars. In 1992 it was 198 billion dollars, or\nmore than national defense started. (This represented an increase\nof 230%)\n\n In 1980, the Federal Government spent 32 billion dollars on\nMedicare. In 1992 they spent 118 billion dollars. (an increase of\n368%)\n\n In 1980, the Feds spent 9 billion dollars on housing\ncredits and subsidies of that like. In 1992 it was 87 billion.\n\n In 1980, Health care services and research was 23 billion\ndollars. In 1992, it was 94 billion dollars.\n\n Agriculture, up 9 billion to 17 billion.\n\n Science, up 11 billion to 16 billion.\n\n Resource conservation up 7 billion to 20 billion.\n\n Education up 14 billion to 45 billion.\n\n Veteran benefits up 12 billion to 33 billion.\n\n Trasnportation up 13 billion to 34 billion.\n \n About the only things I see which was seriously decreased was under \nthe Energy category, primarily under \"Supply,\" and \"Community Development,\"\nin the area of \"disaster relief,\" and between the two of them\nrepresent a loss of less than 11 billion dollars.\n\n Where *was* this huge diversion?\n\n\n Not that's a stretch. If the current government was pushed by\nthe President to create this mess, wouldn't one expect it to begin to\nequalize once the pressure is gone?\n\n\n Only assuming that the new role is a positive role we want\nto continue. I see very little positive about it.\n\n\n The Constitution was *designed* to frustrate the democratic\nprocess, so that the voters could be absolutely sure they were getting\nwhat they wanted by the time it happened. Nor do I see putting the\nbrakes on the \"democratic process\" an inherently bad thing. Califronia's\nriding the edge and every time they pull their ballot initiative nonsense\nit gets worse.\n\n\n Sometimes, or perhaps most of the time, the people should be\ntold, \"no,\" and pointed to their local government. \n\n\n Phill, would you do me the very great favor of repeating that\nin talk.politics.guns?\n\n\n Cute. We can eliminate violations of the law by eliminating\nthe law.\n\n\n Free speech alone is dangerous, Phill.\n\n\n OK, Phill. All you gotta show me is a clear pattern of\n*reduction* in homicide rates across several countries and that'll\nbe it. (Not current, mind, you, reduction.)\n\n\n\n Who's chaining anything to freedom of speech? By *calling*\nit a freedom? \n\n\n Phill, you're a master of subtly changing the subject. I haven't\n*based* my argument against raw democracy on the Constitution. I've\ntried to explain why it isn't a good idea. The only time I've referred\nto the Constitution is to point out it doesn't contain the restrictions\non the veto and the Senate you appear to believe were \"meant,\" but\njust didn't make it in there.\n \n The Constitution doesn't *contain* the 41% fillibuster rule.\nI only believe that the rule is a good idea. You cn't dismiss that\nas venerating the Constitution because it isn't *in* the Constitution.", "kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan) Pontificated: \n\nIs this from the Quran (or however it's spelled)?\n", "\n If the Anne Frank exhibit makes it to your small little world,\n take an afternoon to go see it. \n\n\n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ \n\nBob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM \n\nThey said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,\nand sank Manhattan out at sea.", "\nI'm afraid he isn't. They are a hypocritical lot. ", "\nI am seeking any press references to how much tax Perot pays in income taxes. \r\nI've heard the figure of 7 percent, since he gets most of his \r\nhis income from federal and municipal bond interest. Anybody read a reliable\r\nreport somewhere? Thanks!\r\n\n", "\nOf course, one again faces the question of how one circumscribes government\npower (and keeps it circumscribed) in a complex society when it is in the \ninterest of neither capitalists nor consumers to refrain from using \ngovernment power for their own ends. But apart from that little \nconundrum...\n\nIt would seem that a society with a \"failed\" government would be an ideal\nsetting for libertarian ideals to be implemented. Now why do you suppose\nthat never seems to occur?...\n\nI wouldn't call it \"vague.\" I'd call it elastic. All \"regulation\" is \nnot necessarily the same. By opposing all government regulation, some \nlibertarians treat every system from a command economy to those that\nregulate relatively free markets as identical. That's one reason\nmany of the rest of us find their analysis to be simplistic. \n\njsh", "\t\t\t\t ^^^^^\n\tNo: It is old. You said AMORC *IS*, not *was*... :-)\nNothing personal, OK? Good! :-)\n\n\tMaybe you didn't know that it's over by now. There is no more\npending legal actions from no where, period. So yes, there was a\nsituation and it has been resolved by BOTH parties. As long as humans \nhandle anything, it is subjected to \"breaking\" :-)\n\n\tBTW, Gary L. Stewart has a P.O. Box in TX calling his org ARC:\nAncient Rosae Crucis. I guess he couldn't take the \"MO\" from AMORC :-)\n", "\nI totally agree. Really, the only people this is going to benefit, are\nthose who live in the cities where the train stops. Who wants to drive\nto the train station from X (Lubbock for example)? It's probably farther\nto drive to the train station than it is to the nearest national airport.", "\nI wouldn't bother with the copy protection, if I were you. If you program\nis any good, the pirates will have stripped the protection and will be\ndistributing the stripped version is well under a week.\n\nHardware methods prevent J. Random Loser from using his Copy II PC to pirate \nyour software, but doesn't stop anyone who knows a few people with enough \nconnections to \"real\" pirates who _will_ be able to defeat your \"check for the \nhole\" code.\n\nYou may want to price your software (depending on what it is) a tad\nhigher... a price change from $15 to $25 probably would turn off very few\npotentials buyers, and that way you could tolerate more pirates (whose\nnumbers don't change with the price).\n\nAs for the 20% pirating figure... ha, ha. Of course, a lot of pirates just\nhave this \"thing\" about having pirated software, even if they never use it,\nso perhaps that really wouldn't count towards 20%. Even so, 20% is awfully\nlow.\n\n\n\t\t\t\t\t---Joel Kolstad", "very good.\n\n", "\nThat's a revisionist account of what happened. Gritz was well-aware\nof Duke's presence on the ticket. Given that Gritz is not at all shy\nabout associating and promoting other white supremacists (such as the\nChristian Identity movement or Willis Carto), whatever reasons Gritz\nhad to leave the ticket had nothing to do with Duke's presence.\n\n\nI believe Chip Berlet has a Populist Party newsletter from the time with\na photo of Gritz happily shaking hands with Duke.", "[...]\n[...]\n\nI just found out from my source that this article was a joke. Heh heh.. \nIt seemed pretty damn convincing to me from the start -- I just didn't\nnotice the smiley at the end of the article, and there were a few other\nhints which I should of caught.\n\nAnyway -- I guess this 'joke' did turn out to resemble Clinton's true \nfeelings at least to some extent. \n\nSorry about that...", "\n\n\nyeah, just like we have here in the US.\n\n\n--", "grady@netcom.com suggests using a common but restricted-distribution private\nkey to allow public key system encrypted postings. In theory that will work\nfine as long as the privae key remains secure.\n\nIn practice it would be a good idea to check to see if that would be a\nviolation of some net rule, practice, custom, etc. I don't say it would be,\njust that it would be a good idea to check. This is not like rot13 where\neverybody can have the key trivially.\n\nIt would also be a good idea to check to see if such posts would be\nforwarded by the sites needed to make the chain work.\n\nOf course there'd be no problem with a discussion group travelling over\nfacilities entirely under the control of the members. Probably there would\nalso be no problem with a mailing list approach. It might even be fun for\nsome.\n", "This notice will be posted weekly in sci.space, sci.astro, and\nsci.space.shuttle.\n\n The Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) list for sci.space and sci.astro is\nposted approximately monthly. It also covers many questions that come up on\nsci.space.shuttle (for shuttle launch dates, see below).\n\n The FAQ is posted with a long expiration date, so a copy may be in your\nnews spool directory (look at old articles in sci.space). If not, here are\ntwo ways to get a copy without waiting for the next posting:\n\n (1) If your machine is on the Internet, it can be obtained by anonymous\nFTP from the SPACE archive at ames.arc.nasa.gov (128.102.18.3) in directory\npub/SPACE/FAQ.\n\n (2) Otherwise, send email to 'archive-server@ames.arc.nasa.gov'\ncontaining the single line:\n\nhelp\n\n The archive server will return directions on how to use it. To get an\nindex of files in the FAQ directory, send email containing the lines:\n\nsend space FAQ/Index\nsend space FAQ/faq1\n\n Use these files as a guide to which other files to retrieve to answer\nyour questions.\n\n Shuttle launch dates are posted by Ken Hollis periodically in\nsci.space.shuttle. A copy of his manifest is now available in the Ames\narchive in pub/SPACE/FAQ/manifest and may be requested from the email\narchive-server with 'send space FAQ/manifest'. Please get this document\ninstead of posting requests for information on launches and landings.", "I get \"antsy\" about posts like this. Is the concern more for son or about ex-w\nife??? The standard impartial procedure is to ask for a second opinion\nabout son's condition.\nThen too, is son \"acting out\" games between divorced parents????\n", "\nThe annihilation of Islam (\"Turks\") is an older Serbian agenda. But\nI strongly dispute your notion that Croats had a similar older agenda,\nin fact, for the past century or two, Croats and Muslims have seen\nthemselves as having a lot in common, and they generally had friendly\nrelations. Your suggestion that Croat-Muslim relationship is \nanything like Serb-Muslim relationship is completely wrong.\n\nTo say that Croats and Muslims have a lot in common does not imply\nthey are not separate peoples. The events of the past two years\nclearly show Muslim determination to remain separate: in their alliance\nwith Croats, they maintained this separation. Croats would have\naccepted a much closer relationship, I think. This century plus\nof building bridges between these two friendly peoples is now at\nrisk, because of the inexorable logic of war. \n\nSince Bosnian Serbs (32% of population) have 10 times more heavy\nweapons than Bosnian Muslims (44%) and Croats (17%) combined, they\nhave squeezed Muslims and Croats into only 30% of the territory.\nMuslims lost more territory than Croats (who built defenses early on).\n\nUnder these conditions, any alliance is bound to fall apart since\nit is easier to recover lost land from Croats than from Serbs.\nThe only thing keeping this in check was the hope of reversal of\nfortunes through foreign military intervention and lifting of the\narms embargo. Since Warren Christopher had no luck persuading\nthe Europeans to go along with this, this hope was dashed. Having\nno prospect of outside help, the former allies turned on each other,\nlike two starved animals in a tight cage.\n\nThis inexorable logic, of course, got plenty of help from Serbian\nintelligence operatives, who were doing everything to build\nmistrust between Croats and Muslims for over a year. A timely\nintervention to stop Serbian aggression would have prevented this.\n\nSadly, nothing was done to create a balance of power on the\nground. As long as the Serbs enjoy 10:1 advantage, they can \nbreak any alliance, even among friends. This is tragic, but\nhardly new: \"divide et impera\" was used by ancient Romans\nwith success. In my view, Bosnian Muslims and Croats managed\nto resist this divisive strategy reasonably well until May 9, 1993,\nwhen the hope of reversal of fortunes was lost. \n\nI have a question for the distinguished diplomats: do they\nbelieve Balkan peoples are experimental cannon fodder? I'd like to know\nwhat did they expect when they decided to enforce the arms embargo which\nsolidified Serbian 10:1 advantage in heavy weapons; how did they expect\nto prevent fragmentation of the Muslim and Croat defense forces; and how\non Earth do they hope to restore peace without justice?\n\nThe implications of this immoral approach I cannot begin to predict,\nbut I am filled with foreboding...", "\nIndeed. Reading the cases of people who've tried the various things\nMr. Teel suggests show that defendants fall into two classes: (1) those\nwho win on procedural grounds or some grounds not related to their\nclaim, and (2) those who lose.\n\nConsider Newman v. Schiff, 778 F.2d 460 (8th Cir.1985), which I've seen\ncited by tax protestors other than Mr. Teel as a win for Mr. Schiff.\nMr. Schiff offered $100,000 on TV to anyone who would call in the\nshow and cite any section of the Internal Revenue Code that says that\nan individual has to file a return.\n\nMr. Newman took him up on it. Mr. Newman had seen the show in a rebroadcast\nthe next morning. Mr. Schiff claimed that the offer only extended to\npeople who actually say the original broadcast, and so there was no offer\nfor Mr. Newman to accept, and so no unilateral contract was formed, and\nso Mr. Schiff did not have to pay $100,000.\n\nMr. Schiff was correct, and so won. So, yes, Mr. Schiff won against a\nclaim on the $100,000 reward. However, his win had nothing to do with\nthe tax code.", "\n\nThis is pernicious nonsense!\n\nDavid\n\n\n", "\n\n\tThe only way out seems to be death.\n\n--- \n\n \" I'd Cheat on Hillary Too.\"", "\nI'll pose a question here that's got me thinking: what distinguishes\n\"true\" religion from cults (I'm speaking generally here, not specifially\nabout Christianity)? Jerry Falwell was on Good Morning America on \nTuesday ostensibly to answer this question. Basically, he said that\ntrue religion follows a message whereas a cult follows a person.\nBut, then, Christianity is a cult because the message of Christianity\nIS the person of Jesus. So what distinguishes, for example, the\nBranch Davidian \"cult\" from the Presbyterian \"church\"? Doctrinal\ndifferences don't answer the question, IMHO, so don't use them as\nan answer.\n\n -- Scott at Brandeis\n\n\t\"But God demonstrates His \"The Lord bless you, and keep you;\n\t own love for us, in that the Lord make His face shine on you,\n\t while we were yet sinners, and be gracious to you;\n\t Christ died for us.\"\t the Lord lift up His countenance on you,\n\t\t\t\t and give you peace.\"\n\t\t-- Romans 5:8 [NASB]\t\t-- Numbers 6:24-26 [NASB]", "[...]\n\nDoes this imply the German tone dialing is compatible with the American \none? I know at least the British system is not -- it is supposedly close \nenough though that an American phone will work. But my modem (American)\nhas a special setting for British standards...\n\nMichael", "\n\tThat \"Federal land\" and tax money could have been\n\tused to commerate Americans or better yet, to house\n\thomeless Americans.\n\n\njim@specialix.com (Jim Maurer) responds:\n\n\tWhy don't you contribute to a group helping the\n\thomeless if you so concerned?\n\n\nJack Schmidling (arf@genesis.MCS.COM) reveals the true depths\nof his cynicism:\n\n\tI do (did) contribute to the ARF mortgage fund but\n\twhen interest rates plumetted, I just paid it off.\n\n\tThe problem is, I couldn't convince Congress to move\n\tmy home to a nicer location on Federal land.\n\n\nIn other words, Mr. Schmidling could care less for the plight\nof the homeless, but is not above using them to score points\nfor his agenda.", "I recently saw a message here (posted by Bob Silverman, I think) which \nreferred to a \"birthday\" attack on a cryptosystem. I'm looking for \nreferences on, and explanations of, this type of attack.", "\n: Do you know of any freely distributable c++ (or c) code for public\n: key cryptography (such as RSA)? \n\n: I've tried various archie searches to no avail. \n\nHave you heard of PGP? I assume from your post that you have not. PGP 2.2\nis a freeware RSA encryption program which includes digital signatures and\ncomprehensive key management facilities. Most sites also keep the source code.\nA growing number of people are using this excellent software to encrypt (to\na very high standard) their email and data. Get it before Clinton outlaws it.\n\nTwo of the many sites are:\n rsa.com /pub/pgp\n soda.berkeley.edu /pub/cypherpunks/pgp\n\nHope this helps,\n\nJon", "Hello Ceci:\n\n My name is Tony and I have a few comments on your \"rosicrucian\"\nadventure. I hereby state that I am not claiming or denying membership in\nany Order, fraternity etc. with or without the word \"Rosicrucian\" in the \nname of the organization. I only claim having done some \"homework\" :-)\n\n This is intended as a friendly article and if at times it seems\ndifferent, it's my lack of writing skills showing, nothing else. Heck,\nEnglish may be my second language! (And then again maybe not by now :-)\n\n I proceed:\n Let's start with the name \"Rosicrucian\". I took me a long time to come\nto the conclusion that there is a difference between a *member* of a\n\"rosicrucian\" body and BEING *a* ROSICRUCIAN. So when you say that you met\nsome 'rosicrucians' you mean \"members of a group that calls themselves\nrosicrucian\". At least that is what your observation suggests :-)\n\n I'd prefer if you would have stated up front that it was the Lectorium\nRosicrucianum, only because they may be confused, by some readers of this\nnewsgroup, with the Rosicrucian Order AMORC based (the USA Jurisdiction) in\nSan Jose, CA; this being the RC org with the most members (last time I\nlooked). Of course, \"most members\" does not *necessarily* mean \"best\".\n\n Anyway, the Lectorium Rosicrucianum claims they\ndescend (at least in part) from what was the \"Gold-und-Rosenkreuz\" (Golden\nand Rosy Cross), from the 18th century. There were two \"Golden and Rosy\nCross\", the first (chronologically) more alchemical, the second with\nMasonic tinges, but their history is the subject of a complete chapter :-).\n\n \"You'll have to trust me\" when I tell you that if that\nlecture/class/whatever had been presented by AMORC, it is unlikely that you\nwould have had the same impression, i.e., you'd probably have had a\npositive impression more likely than a negative one, IMHO. \n\n Again, instead of R:s, it should be \"Lectorium Rosicrucianum\" :-). It\nis curious to know that 3 other RC 'orders' (in the USA) claim to be *non-\nsectarian*.\n\n The Cathars were a 'heretic' christian sect that directly challenged\nthe 'authority' of the medieval catholic church. They flourished during the\n12th century, century which saw the religious zeal expressed in the\ncrusades and also the growing disillusion with the catholic church and the\nworldly ways of its clerics. It was largely in response to the church's\nunseemly pomp and splendor that Catharism took root, first in northern\nItaly, then throughout the south of France.\n\n\n\n I don't see nothing *fundamentally* wrong with \"us containing\nsomething divine\"... And yes I don't like phrases like \"eternal bliss\"\neither! :-)\n\n For a moment I thought you were referring to Madison Ave :-)\n(Madison avenue in New York City is where the most influential (read\n$$$) *commercial* advertising is produced here in the USA :-)\n\nPeace,\n\nTony\n", "SOMEONE PLEASE BUY THESE BOOKS!!!!! I AM NOT ASKING MUCH!!!!!!\n\nJUST MAKE ME AN OFFER AND I WILL PROBABLY TAKE IT!!!!!\n\n\n* Writing good software in Fortran, Graham Smith. \n\n* The Holt Handbook by Kirszner & Mandell (copyright 1986) 720+ page writing guide. \n\n* General Chemistry Principles & Modern Applications, R. Petrucci, fourth\n edition. Big Book! Very good condition!\n\n* Solutions manual for Chemistry book. Paperback.\n\n* Study guide for Chemistry book. Paperback.\n\n\nSend me your offers via email at 02106@chopin.udel.edu\n\n", "\n\nLucky they brought the situation to a prompt resolution before they had to \nturn things over to the amateurs.\n\n\nGod help us all.\n-- ", "\nFirst of all, I'm not your buddy! Second, read what I wrote. I'm not\ntalking about what muslims are ALLOWED to do, merely what *SOME*\npractice. They consider themselves as muslim as you, so don't retort\nwith the old and tired \"they MUST NOT BE TRUE MUSLIMS\" bullshit. If I\ngave you the names what will you do with this information? Is a fatwa\ngoing to be leashed out against the perpetrators? Do you honestly think\nthat someone who did it would voluntarily come forward and confess? \nWith the kind of extremism shown by your co-religionaries? Fat chance.\n\nAt any rate, there can be no conclusive \"proof\" by the very nature of\nthe act. Perhaps people that indulge in this practice agree with you in\ntheory, but hope that Allah will forgive them in the end.\n\nI think it's rather arrogant of you to pretend to speak for all muslims\nin this regard. Also, kind of silly. Are you insinuating that because\nthe Koranic law forbids it, there are no criminals in muslim countries? \n\nThis is as far as I care to go on this subject. The weakness of your\narguments are for all netters to see. Over and out...\n-- ", "\n\n\n\nYou hadn't made that clear; I'm glad to have it clarified! So you're\na (physical) objectivist, after all, right?\n\n\nWavicle! Next question? ;-)\n--\nMark Pundurs", "\nWe have no way to know that the cultists burned the house; it could have been\nthe BATF and FBI. We only have the government's word for it, after all, and\npeople who started it by a no-knock search with concussion grenades are hardly\ndisinterested observers.\n--\n\"On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Leftover Turkey!\nOn the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Turkey Casserole\n that she made from Leftover Turkey.\n[days 3-4 deleted] ... Flaming Turkey Wings! ...\n -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait)", "THE WHITE HOUSE\n\n Office of the Press Secretary\n_________________________________________________________________\n\nFor Immediate Release April 15, 1993\n\n\n\n AMERICAN UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT JOSEPH DUFFEY NAMED TO HEAD USIA,\n MICA TO CHAIR BOARD FOR INTERNATIONAL BROADCASTING\n\n\nWashington, D.C. - President Clinton today announced his \nintention to nominate American University President and former \nState Department Assistant Secretary Joseph Duffey to be Director \nof the United States Information Agency. The President also \ndesignated Daniel Mica Chairman of the Board for International \nBroadcasting.\n \n \"Joe Duffey's expertise in the fields of education, \ncommunications and foreign affairs is vast and will serve him \nwell as he takes the helm at USIA and works to promote the ideals \nof democracy and freedom abroad,\" the President said. \n\n President of American University in Washington, D.C. since \n1991, Duffey previously served nine years as Chancellor and \nPresident of the University of Massachusetts at Amherst. In 1977 \nhe served as Assistant Secretary of State, Education and Cultural \nAffairs in the State Department. Duffey served as Chairman of the \nNational Endowment for the Humanities under both Presidents \nCarter and Reagan. \n\n In 1978 and 1980, Duffey served as a United States delegate \nto the General Conference of the United Nations Educational, \nScientific and Cultural Organization. In 1991, Duffey served as \njoint head of the U.S. Delegation observing national elections in \nEthiopia. \n\n USIA, which celebrates its 40th anniversary this year, is an \nindependent foreign affairs agency within the executive branch \nthat explains and supports U.S. foreign policy and national \nsecurity interests abroad through a wide range of information \nprograms. Among the agency's programs are the Fulbright academic \nprogram, Voice of America, the Worldnet satellite television \nsystem and a network of overseas libraries and cultural centers. \nThe agency has more than 210 posts in more than 140 countries.\n\n (more)\nPress Release\npg. 2\n\n\n\n\n Mica becomes Chairman of the Board for International \nBroadcasting after serving as a member of the board since 1991.\n\n \"Dan Mica has done an excellent job on the Board of \nInternational Broadcasting and I expect he will continue as \nchairman to promote the cause of democracy abroad,\" the President \nsaid.\n\n\n Biographical sketches of the appointees follow: \n\n\nJoseph Duffey has served as President of American University \nsince 1991. Prior to his tenure at American, Duffey served as \nChancellor and President of the University of Massachusetts at \nAmherst (1982 - 91) and as a Guest Scholar at the Brookings \nInstitution (1982). He served as Chairman of the National \nEndowment for the Humanities from 1977 - 82 and as Assistant \nSecretary of State, Education and Cultural Affairs with the \nDepartment of State in 1977. Duffey holds 14 honorary degrees \nfrom American colleges and universities. In 1980 he was named \nCommander of the Order of the Crown by the King of Belgium and he \nhas been a member of the Council of Foreign Relations since 1979. \nDuffey received a BA from Marshall University in 1954, a BD from \nthe Andover Newton Theological School in 1958, a STM from Yale \nUniversity in 1963 and a Ph.D. from the Harvard Seminary \nFoundation in 1969. Duffey is a member of the National Business-\nHigher Education Forum and a founder and co-chairman of the \nWestern Massachusetts Economic Development Conference. Duffey is \nmarried to Anne Wexler and has four sons.\n\n\nDaniel Mica is a former U.S. Representative from the 14th \nDistrict of Florida and has served on the Board of International \nBroadcasting since 1991. During his tenure in Congress from 1979 \n- 89 he served on the House Committee on Foreign Relations and \nwas appointed by President Reagan as the Congressional \nRepresentative to the United Nations. \n", "\nSo which are you advocating?\n\nThat You know Nothing About American History, \nOr that You Know Nothing About the Bible?\n\nIs this a Restoration of the \"Know Nothing\" Party?\n\nciao\ndrieux\n\nps: what WAS the \"Free Negro Sailor Act\" about,\nand what was the Supreme Court's Ruling On it... and\nMore Importantly, how does this Complicate the Mythology\nthat all blacks were slaves????\n\n", "Ever since I was a kid and learned to tell when I was in a \ndream I have used my dreams for fantasies or working out problems.\nIn my dreams I have done everything from yell at my mom\nto machine-gunning zombies, not to mention myriad sexual\nfantasies. I have deliberately done things that I would never\ndo in real life. I understand the need to control ones\nthoughts, but I always felt that dreams were format free,\nno morals, no ethics, no physical laws, (though sometimes I would \nhave to wake myself up to go to the bathroom.)\n\nIs this an incorrect attitude? Rather than weakening my inhibitions,\nI could argue that I got certain things \"out of my system\" by \nexperiencing them in dreams. By analyzing a dream I can determine\nif I have a problem with a certain situation, i.e. in a dream\nsomething will be exagerated that I can then contemplate and\nsee if it really bothers me or not.\n\nI can't believe that other people don't do the same. It seems \nsilly to attach moral significance to dreams.\n\nI think that this is entirely different from out of body\nexperiences, which I have never had.\n\nContradictions welcome.", "Gremilins have attacked my keyboard and the correction to my followup on audio\nrelays got fouled up. \nVarying lamp resistance, should read, \"Varying lamp voltage\"\n-- \n73, Tom\n================================================================================\nTom Wagner, Audio Visual Technician. Malaspina College Nanaimo British Columbia\n(604)753-3245, Loc 2230 Fax:755-8742 Callsign:VE7GDA Weapon:.45 Kentucky Rifle\nSnail mail to: Site Q4, C2. RR#4, Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada, V9R 5X9 ", "\nWell, the first 2 are easy. You need the math library. Try adding -lm after\n-lX11. Don't know if that's the whole problem but it's a start.\n", "\nHe'll slam Clinton for anything at all on the air. I just do not\nunderstand why he remains so popular. He'll take a piece of video of\nClinton walking along; find a frame in which Clinton wrinkles his\nnose, say; freeze on it and blow it up full screen; and then rant for\nfive minutes on how no one could possibly trust someone with such a\nface and such beady greedy little eyes. I've seen this on his TV show\n(it was around the time of the inauguration). Can anyone call this\nstuff legitimate (I hate to say \"informed\") commentary? How can\nanyone with half a brain in his or her head[1] continue to watch\nit[2]?\n\nThe American TV-watching (and I guess radio-listening) public never\nceases to amaze me.\n\n\t/J\n\n[1] Oops, have I just inadvertently answered my own question?\n\n[2] I myself only see it when I run across it every couple months when\n channel-surfing late at night; the longest I've been able to stand\n him was about 10 minutes.\n\n(Apologies for stripping the alt.fan.rush groups from the Newsgroups\nline; the software here apparently rejects anything with groups we\ndon't carry, and we don't carry those. Also I removed sci.crypt from\nfollowups.)", "\nI think he is trying to mislead people. In cases where race\ninformation is sought, it is completely voluntary (the census\npossibly excepted).", " rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie) writes...\n\n\n\n\nFOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES ONLY\n\nOn the other hand, if it can be proven, it's possible the changed \nterms could be thrown out. The question will be whether the \nagreement contains a merger clause. See UCC @ 2-202 (parol \nevidence). If we're talking about warranties, then, of course, \nUCC @ 2-316 should be looked at.\n\nBut we have so little information that none of us can say anything \nconclusive.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\tDaniel Reitman", "\n\n\nAs I recall, in the 60's the Kennedy Administration had sub-kiloton\nnuclear weapons withdrawn from Europe and destroyed. They were man-\nportable and made for use in shoulder-mount rocket launchers. The\nsmallest nuclear test I've seen data for was a .1 (yes, one-tenth)\nkiloton weapon tested either in the late 40's or early 50's.", "The Centaur is controlled technology..\nState Dept will not allow it to be used outside of US. Sorry.\n\n\n", "\nThis has been an interesting thread to follow... and obviously this group\nwasn't intended as a forum for the discussion of piracy... Has anyone seen\nany estimates of the lost revenue due to pirates? I was wondering if\npiracy is more rampant in Home or Corporate computing environments. I would\ntend to think that business environment \"piracy\" is the major contributor to\nthis form of lost revenue. So many companies will purchase a few copies of a\nsoftware package and then employees will internally distribute them as if they\nowned a site-license! What do you guys think?\n", "\n\nThey are and they have.\n\nDavid\n", "\nWell, isn't this just a hoot! :) All I read on this group is a bunch\nof ppl fearing the misuses of information by the big bad evil govt.\nThis just happens to be a case of an ordinary-joe-netter, who decided\nthat he would create and/or distribute some misinformation. Ppl buy\ninto BS posts like this (I know, because I forwarded a copy of the\npost to my office mate, who turned around and was (although he won't\nadmit it...sorry Joe!) ready to get in a fight about F-O-R-F-E-I-T-U-R-E!!!)\nPlease, if we're going to hold our govt (which admittedly has had and\nstill has its problems) to high standards, then mustn't we follow these\ntoo? Electronic Freedoms only go so far.\n\n \n\nHey, I'm willing to forgive...after of course my office mate takes his\nextra anti-paranoia pills! :)", "Could anyone enlighten me on how the Mormon church views \nchildren born out of wedlock? In particular I'm interested to know if any \nstigma is attached to the children as opposed to the parents. I'm especially \nkeen to learn if there is or is not any prohibition in the Mormon faith on \nbastards entering heaven or having their names entered in the big genealogical \nbook the Mormons keep in Salt Lake City. If this is an issue on which the \n\"official\" position has changed over time, I'm interested in learning both old \nand new beliefs. E-mail or posting is fine. All information or pointers are \nappreciated.", "\n^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nAs a muslim (spelled sometimes as Moslem) I must say that Muslims strong\nly believe in Jesus. Refered in islamic text as eesau(as)\n\n Jesus ==> J - esu - s ===> esu (pronounced eee-saw)\n\nYah we knew him well. Ideally, this war should not even be. And even in\na time of war, our goal is peace. We should try to refrain from viloating\nthe peace of others as then if we do violate, we will not have peace in\nourselves. I don't like this war eaither, It is a conflict of territory.\nCroats, Muslims, and Serbs lived together before in peace. The rallying\npoint is 'race'. And Im sure that there is a General out there who wouldn't\nmind being a president.\n\n--\nMohammad R. Khan / khan0095@nova.gmi.edu\nAfter July '93, please send mail to mkhan@nyx.cs.du.edu", "THE WHITE HOUSE\n\n Office of the Press Secretary\n (Vancouver, British Columbia)\n_________________________________________________________________\nFor Immediate Release April 4, 1993\n\n\t \n PRESS CONFERENCE BY THE PRESIDENT\n WITH RUSSIAN PRESS\n\t \n Canada Place\n Vancouver, British Columbia\n\n\n\n2:46 P.M. PDT\n\n\t \t \n\t Q\t I had two questions for both Presidents, so you \ncould probably answer for Boris, too. (Laughter.)\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: I'll give you my answer, then I'll \ngive you Yeltsin's answer. (Laughter.)\n\t \n\t Q\t The first is that this is the meeting of the \nPresidents, so the money that's being promised is government \nmoney, and naturally it's going to be distributed through the \ngovernment. But you've indicated that three-quarters are going \nto be going to businesses. So the question is how the Russian \nbusinesses themselves are going to be consulted, if ever? What \nare the priorities, because there are several association of \nRussian businessmen existing already, so will they be invited to \nparticipate in setting up priorities for investment? \n\t \n\t This is the first. And second, to you. We know \nthat polls, public polls in America do not show that Americans \nare very enthusiastic about giving this aid. Like Newsweek polls \nsay that about 75 percent don't approve it, and New York Times \npublished that 52 percent support if it just prevents civil war; \n42 percent if it fosters democratic reform; and only 29 percent \nif it just personally supports Yeltsin. How are you going to \nsort of handle this problem that Americans themselves are not \nvery enthusiastic? Thank you.\n\t \n\t Q\t I have a question, I'm sorry -- is there going \nto be a translation of everything into Russian? No, just the \nanswers. Just the answers. Okay.\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: The answer to the first question is, \nit depends on what kind of aid we're discussing. For example, \nthe funds that will be set up for financing new businesses will \nobviously go to those businesses who apply and who seem to be \ngood risks and make the application. The privatization fund will \nbe used to support the privatization of existing public \nenterprises. Then there are some other general funds in the \nDemocracy Corps and other things which people in Russia will have \nsome influence over the distribution of. \n\t \n\t With regard to your second question, let me say that \nI would think that there would be people in both countries who \nwould not feel too warmly toward simply the American government \ngiving money to the Russian government. There's opposition to \nthat in Russia. And in our country, throughout our whole history \nthere has been an opposition to foreign aid of all kinds. That \nis, this has nothing to do with Russia. If you look at the whole \nhistory of America, any kind of aid program has always been \nunpopular. \n\t \n\t What I have tried to tell the American people is, is \nthis is not an aid program, this is an investment program; that \nthis is an investment in our future. We spent $4 trillion --\ntrillion -- on armaments on soldiers and other investments \nbecause of the Cold War. Now, with a democratic government in \nRussia, with the newly independent states, the remainder of them \nworking on a democracy and struggling to get their economies \ngoing, it seems to me very much in our interest to make it \npossible to do whatever we can for democracy to survive, for the \neconomy of Russia to grow because of the potential for trade and \ninvestment there, and for us to continue the effort to reduce \nnuclear weapons and other elements of hostility on both sides, on \nour side and on the Russian side. \n\t \n\t So I don't see this as an aid program; this is an \ninvestment for the United States. This is very much in the \ninterest of the United States. The things I announced today, the \nsecond stage of the program, which I hope to put together next \nweek, in my view are things that are good for my country and for \nthe taxpayers and workers of my country. \n\t \n\t Russia is a very great nation that needs some \npartnership now, some common endeavor with other people who share \nher goals. But it would be a great mistake for anyone to view \nthis as some sort of just a charity or an aid issue. That's not \nwhat it is, it's an investment for America and it's a wonderful \ninvestment. \n\t \n\t Like all investments, there is some risk. But \nthere's far less risk with a far greater potential of return than \nthe $4 trillion we spent looking at each other across the barrier \nof the Cold War.\n\t \n\t Q\t Mr. President, first of all thank you very \nmuch, indeed, for coming here and talking to us. In the memory \nof the living correspondents, this is the first time an American \nPresident is doing this to the Russian press corps, so it's kind \nof a very measured breakthrough. \n\t \n\t I have two questions. One, in your introductory \nremarks of the other press conference, you mentioned in brief \nthat you discussed the START II and START I issues. Could you \ntell us: Did you reach an agreement with President Yeltsin as to \nwhat might be done in order to have Ukraine join the ratification \nof START I and the NPT regime? And my second question is, how \nconfident you are that the United States Congress would be eager \nto support you in lifting Jackson-Vanik and other restrictions \ninherited from the Cold War? \n\t \n\t PRESIDENT CLINTON: First, we discussed the issue of \nUkraine with regard to START I and NPT, and generally, with \nregard to the need to proceed to have the other independent \nstates all be non-nuclear; but also to have the United States \ndevelop strong relationships with them. We know that one thing \nthat we could do that would increase, I think, the willingness of \nthe Ukraine to support this direction is to successfully conclude \nour own negotiations on highly enriched uranium, because that \nwould provide not only an important economic opportunity for \nRussia, but also for Ukraine, and it would show some reaching out \non our part. But we agreed that basically the people who signed \noff on the Lisbon Protocol have got to honor what they did, and \nwe agreed to continue to press that.\n\t \n\t I, myself, have spent a good deal of time trying to \nreassure Ukraine's leaders, specifically the President and the \nForeign Minister, that I want strong ties with Ukraine, that the \nUnited States very much wants a good relationship with Ukraine, \nbut that, in order to do what we need to do together to \nstrengthen the economy of Ukraine and to have the United States \nbe fully supportive, the commitment to ratify START I and to join \nthe NPT regime is critical.\n\t \n\t What was the second question? \n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: With regard to Jackson-Vanik and \nCOCOM, I would make two points: First, I have agreed with the \nRepublican and Democratic leaders in the Congress that we will, \nas soon as I return, have a list of all the legislative and other \nrestrictions, some of them are regulatory in nature, imposed on \nrelations between the United States and Russia, that are legacies \nof the Cold War. And we will see whether they're -- how many of \nthem we could agree to do away with right now, at least among the \nleadership of the Congress.\n\t \n\t With regard to Jackson-Vanik, I think there will be \nan openness to change the law if the Congress is convinced there \nare, in fact, no more refusniks, no more people who wish to \nemigrate who are not being allowed to. If the fact is that there \nis no one there who would have been -- who the law was designed \nto affect, then I think that the desire to keep the law will be \nmuch less.\n\t \n\t With regard to COCOM, my guess is, and it's nothing \nmore than a guess, that the leadership of Congress and indeed my \nown advisers, might prefer to see some sort of phased movement \nout of the COCOM regime. But I think they would be willing to \nbegin it in the fairly near future.\n\t \n\t Q\t Mr. Clinton, when I read your speech in \nAnnapolis, I got the impression that you have a completely \ndifferent personal -- and I stress that -- personal, not \npolitical approach towards Russia, compared to the approach of \nMr. Bush. Could you formulate in a few words, what is the \ndifference between you as a personality and your approach -- the \ndifference between your approach to Russia and the approach of \nMr. Bush? And who made you -- why did you cite Akhmatova in the \nlast part of your speech?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: Let me say, first, I do not wish to \ncompare myself with President Bush or anyone else. I can't say \nwhat was in his heart about Russia. I can say that since I was a \nboy, I have been personally fascinated with the history, the \nmusic and the culture, and the literature of Russia. I have been \nthrilled by Russian music since I was a serious student of music \nfor more than 30 years now. I have read major Russian novelists \nand many of your poets and followed your ballet and tried to know \nas much as I could about your history. \n\t \n\t And I went to the Soviet Union -- but it was then \nthe Soviet Union -- you may know it was a big issue in the last \npresidential campaign that I spent the first week of 1970 alone \nin Moscow and did not return again until three days before Mr. \nYeltsin was elected President. But all that time I was away, I \nwas following events there very closely and hoping for the day \nwhen we could be genuine partners. So I have always had a \npersonal feeling about Russia. \n\t \n\t I remember, for example -- a lot of you know I like \nmusic very much. One of the most moving experiences for me as a \nmusician was when Leonard Bernstein took the New York \nPhilharmonic to Moscow and played Shostakovich's Fifth Symphony \nto the Russians. And he played the last movement more rapidly \nthan anyone had ever played it before because it was technically \nso difficult. That is something I followed very closely when it \noccurred. \n\t \n\t These are things that have always had a big impact \non my life. And I had just always hoped that someday, if I ever \nhad the chance to, I could play a role in seeing our two \ncountries become closer partners. (Applause.)\n\t \n\t THE PRESS: Thank you.", "\n\n\nDo you have a cite for the case? You don't give enough\ninformation to be able to compare the two situations.\nIf the demonstrators had been blaring loud rock music \ninto the landlord's home all day and night, then I could\nsee how the opinion would be justified. But this court\norder had prohibited abortion protesters from displaying\npictures of dead fetuses, which doesn't disrupt the privacy\nof anyone inside the clinic. \n\n\nPerhaps in the privacy of their homes, but not on public\nproperty. Did the Korean grocery store owner in New York\ncity have a right to be free from the speech of the protesters \noutside his store? Patrons inside the store could hear the \nprotesters asking them to re-consider shopping there -- how \nis that different from the abortion protesters asking women \nto re-consider getting an abortion at a clinic? \n\n\nEven if the protesters' speech could be considered\n\"harassment\" (which it is not), hate speech laws have \ngenerally been struck down by the courts. I don't see \nhow the words ``don't kill your baby'' or ``abortion is \nmurder'' could be considered harassment.\n\n\nSome of the protesters were arrested for simply praying\nquietly on a public sidewalk. Yeah, I could see how\nthat might be equivalent to \"bombing\" and \"murder\".\nUh huh. Let us know when you get a grip on reality. \n\n\n", "\n\nThe Japanese are still on the learning curve as far as nuclear power goes.\nThis means that unlike the Germans (who do great things all by themselves)\nthe Japanese tie up with foreign companies. The major one is Mitsubishi\n(who else) who have a sharing agreement with GE I think. No chance of a\nnew design.\n\n\nSodium has *lots* of chemical problems. Like it eats stainless steel. Very\nslowly but it gets there in the end. Not what I call a desired property.\nAs for design difficulties, what does sodium do there? It is a bitch and\nit is only its chemical properties (flwed though they are) that means it\ngets used. Two loops? That's not a design problem? Isolation from air and\nwater? That doesn't cause design problems? In comparison BWR's a dream rides!\n\n\nDon't get none of that in a Liquid Sodium Breeder! More steel, more complexity.\n\nJoseph Askew\n", "Today Rush was criticizing Clinton for not claiming responsibility for the\nactions and decisions of Janet Reno and the FBI early enough to suit\nRush.\n\nAbout 2 months ago Rush was chortling over the fact that Reagan has stumped\n\"special persecutor Walsh\" with his croaking of \"I don't remember\" when\nasked about Ollie North.\n\nIf Rush's criticism of Clinton were to be applied to Reagan and North... \nReagan would have been impeached while North was convicted (and overturned on\na technicality).\n\nGosh, Rush sure wants to have it both ways... Clinton MUST be held \nresponsible, but Reagan was clever by using the \"amnesia defense\".", "\nNow, almost 100 years later, we have the right words for the problem here.\n\nPhone calls are \"virtual visits\". Those experienced in virtual reality\nwould know from that title that phone calls need to have all the properties\nof a walk in the park with your friend -- security from casual overhearing\nand easy verification to see if anyone is listening secretively. As designed,\nthey fail at that.\n\n..trouble is, telephones were invented a long time ago and people didn't\nrealize the danger or the concept of virtual reality back then.\n", "I have done several of these upgrades (about 6 IIsi's, and 1 Quadra 700), and\nthe best thing to use would be some sort of \"heat sink compound\". If possible,\nyou should look for the silicon-free stuff. There's a comany who makes the stuff\ncalled Tech Spray, their address is: P.O. Box 949, Amarillo, TX 79105.\n\nYou should be wary in using most kinds of tape; and definately don't use duct\ntape \u001c that stuff is for ducts...\n\nWhen using the heat sink glue or compound, only use enough to fill the small\nspace between the heat sink and the CPU.\n\nMario Murphy", "\n searching out our deceased ancestors so that we can perform the\n ordinances -- such as baptism, confirmation, and marriage for time and\n eternity -- that are required for a person to obtain salvation through\n Christ and to live with Him through the eternities. These are people\n who may have not had the opportunity to know Christ in their lifetime,\n so we are making it possible for Christ's saving grace (I know there\n are thousands of interpretations of that phrase) to become fully\n effective for them if they allow it to do so on the other side.\n\n\nThis paragraph brought to mind a question. How do you (Mormons) reconcile\nthe idea of eternal marriage with Christ's statement that in the ressurection\npeople will neither marry nor be given in marriage (Luke, chapt. 20)?\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDavid Hammerslag (dhammers@urbana.mcd.mot.com)\n \"...there ain't nobody so bad that the Lord can't save 'em ain't\n nobody so good they don't need God's love...\" -- Mullins ", "This document is in the anonymous ftp directory at NIST. Looks to me\nlike the other shoe has dropped.\n\n\tJim Gillogly\n\tTrewesday, 25 Astron S.R. 1993, 17:00\n\n-------------------\n\nNote: This file will also be available via anonymous file\ntransfer from csrc.ncsl.nist.gov in directory /pub/nistnews and\nvia the NIST Computer Security BBS at 301-948-5717.\n ---------------------------------------------------\n\n THE WHITE HOUSE\n\n Office of the Press Secretary\n\n_________________________________________________________________\n\nFor Immediate Release April 16, 1993\n\n\n STATEMENT BY THE PRESS SECRETARY\n\n\nThe President today announced a new initiative that will bring\nthe Federal Government together with industry in a voluntary\nprogram to improve the security and privacy of telephone\ncommunications while meeting the legitimate needs of law\nenforcement.\n\nThe initiative will involve the creation of new products to\naccelerate the development and use of advanced and secure\ntelecommunications networks and wireless communications links.\n\nFor too long there has been little or no dialogue between our\nprivate sector and the law enforcement community to resolve the\ntension between economic vitality and the real challenges of\nprotecting Americans. Rather than use technology to accommodate\nthe sometimes competing interests of economic growth, privacy and\nlaw enforcement, previous policies have pitted government against\nindustry and the rights of privacy against law enforcement.\n\nSophisticated encryption technology has been used for years to\nprotect electronic funds transfer. It is now being used to\nprotect electronic mail and computer files. While encryption\ntechnology can help Americans protect business secrets and the\nunauthorized release of personal information, it also can be used\nby terrorists, drug dealers, and other criminals.\n\nA state-of-the-art microcircuit called the \"Clipper Chip\" has\nbeen developed by government engineers. The chip represents a\nnew approach to encryption technology. It can be used in new,\nrelatively inexpensive encryption devices that can be attached to\nan ordinary telephone. It scrambles telephone communications\nusing an encryption algorithm that is more powerful than many in\ncommercial use today.\n\nThis new technology will help companies protect proprietary\ninformation, protect the privacy of personal phone conversations\nand prevent unauthorized release of data transmitted\nelectronically. At the same time this technology preserves the\nability of federal, state and local law enforcement agencies to\nintercept lawfully the phone conversations of criminals. \n\nA \"key-escrow\" system will be established to ensure that the\n\"Clipper Chip\" is used to protect the privacy of law-abiding\nAmericans. Each device containing the chip will have two unique\n\n\n 2\n\n\n\"keys,\" numbers that will be needed by authorized government\nagencies to decode messages encoded by the device. When the\ndevice is manufactured, the two keys will be deposited separately\nin two \"key-escrow\" data bases that will be established by the\nAttorney General. Access to these keys will be limited to\ngovernment officials with legal authorization to conduct a\nwiretap.\n\nThe \"Clipper Chip\" technology provides law enforcement with no\nnew authorities to access the content of the private\nconversations of Americans.\n\nTo demonstrate the effectiveness of this new technology, the\nAttorney General will soon purchase several thousand of the new\ndevices. In addition, respected experts from outside the\ngovernment will be offered access to the confidential details of\nthe algorithm to assess its capabilities and publicly report\ntheir findings.\n\nThe chip is an important step in addressing the problem of\nencryption's dual-edge sword: encryption helps to protect the\nprivacy of individuals and industry, but it also can shield\ncriminals and terrorists. We need the \"Clipper Chip\" and other\napproaches that can both provide law-abiding citizens with access\nto the encryption they need and prevent criminals from using it\nto hide their illegal activities. In order to assess technology\ntrends and explore new approaches (like the key-escrow system),\nthe President has directed government agencies to develop a\ncomprehensive policy on encryption that accommodates:\n\n -- the privacy of our citizens, including the need to\n employ voice or data encryption for business purposes;\n\n -- the ability of authorized officials to access telephone\n calls and data, under proper court or other legal\n order, when necessary to protect our citizens;\n\n -- the effective and timely use of the most modern\n technology to build the National Information\n Infrastructure needed to promote economic growth and\n the competitiveness of American industry in the global\n marketplace; and \n\n -- the need of U.S. companies to manufacture and export\n high technology products.\n\nThe President has directed early and frequent consultations with\naffected industries, the Congress and groups that advocate the\nprivacy rights of individuals as policy options are developed.\n\n\n\n 3\n\nThe Administration is committed to working with the private\nsector to spur the development of a National Information\nInfrastructure which will use new telecommunications and computer\ntechnologies to give Americans unprecedented access to\ninformation. This infrastructure of high-speed networks\n(\"information superhighways\") will transmit video, images, HDTV\nprogramming, and huge data files as easily as today's telephone\nsystem transmits voice.\n\nSince encryption technology will play an increasingly important\nrole in that infrastructure, the Federal Government must act\nquickly to develop consistent, comprehensive policies regarding\nits use. The Administration is committed to policies that\nprotect all Americans' right to privacy while also protecting\nthem from those who break the law.\n\nFurther information is provided in an accompanying fact sheet. \nThe provisions of the President's directive to acquire the new\nencryption technology are also available. \n\nFor additional details, call Mat Heyman, National Institute of\nStandards and Technology, (301) 975-2758.\n\n---------------------------------\n\n\nQUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ABOUT THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION'S\nTELECOMMUNICATIONS INITIATIVE\n\n\n\n\nQ: Does this approach expand the authority of government\n agencies to listen in on phone conversations?\n\nA: No. \"Clipper Chip\" technology provides law enforcement with\n no new authorities to access the content of the private\n conversations of Americans.\n\nQ: Suppose a law enforcement agency is conducting a wiretap on\n a drug smuggling ring and intercepts a conversation\n encrypted using the device. What would they have to do to\n decipher the message?\n\nA: They would have to obtain legal authorization, normally a\n court order, to do the wiretap in the first place. They\n would then present documentation of this authorization to\n the two entities responsible for safeguarding the keys and\n obtain the keys for the device being used by the drug\n smugglers. The key is split into two parts, which are\n stored separately in order to ensure the security of the key\n escrow system.\n\nQ: Who will run the key-escrow data banks?\n\nA: The two key-escrow data banks will be run by two independent\n entities. At this point, the Department of Justice and the\n Administration have yet to determine which agencies will\n oversee the key-escrow data banks.\n\nQ: How strong is the security in the device? How can I be sure\n how strong the security is? \n\nA: This system is more secure than many other voice encryption\n systems readily available today. While the algorithm will\n remain classified to protect the security of the key escrow\n system, we are willing to invite an independent panel of\n cryptography experts to evaluate the algorithm to assure all\n potential users that there are no unrecognized\n vulnerabilities.\n\nQ: Whose decision was it to propose this product?\n\nA: The National Security Council, the Justice Department, the\n Commerce Department, and other key agencies were involved in\n this decision. This approach has been endorsed by the\n President, the Vice President, and appropriate Cabinet\n officials.\n\nQ: Who was consulted? The Congress? Industry?\n\nA: We have on-going discussions with Congress and industry on\n encryption issues, and expect those discussions to intensify\n as we carry out our review of encryption policy. We have\n briefed members of Congress and industry leaders on the\n decisions related to this initiative.\n\nQ: Will the government provide the hardware to manufacturers?\n\nA: The government designed and developed the key access\n encryption microcircuits, but it is not providing the\n microcircuits to product manufacturers. Product\n manufacturers can acquire the microcircuits from the chip\n manufacturer that produces them.\n\nQ: Who provides the \"Clipper Chip\"?\n\nA: Mykotronx programs it at their facility in Torrance,\n California, and will sell the chip to encryption device\n manufacturers. The programming function could be licensed\n to other vendors in the future.\n\nQ: How do I buy one of these encryption devices? \n\nA: We expect several manufacturers to consider incorporating\n the \"Clipper Chip\" into their devices.\n \nQ: If the Administration were unable to find a technological\n solution like the one proposed, would the Administration be\n willing to use legal remedies to restrict access to more\n powerful encryption devices?\n\nA: This is a fundamental policy question which will be\n considered during the broad policy review. The key escrow\n mechanism will provide Americans with an encryption product\n that is more secure, more convenient, and less expensive\n than others readily available today, but it is just one\n piece of what must be the comprehensive approach to\n encryption technology, which the Administration is\n developing.\n\n The Administration is not saying, \"since encryption\n threatens the public safety and effective law enforcement,\n we will prohibit it outright\" (as some countries have\n effectively done); nor is the U.S. saying that \"every\n American, as a matter of right, is entitled to an\n unbreakable commercial encryption product.\" There is a\n false \"tension\" created in the assessment that this issue is\n an \"either-or\" proposition. Rather, both concerns can be,\n and in fact are, harmoniously balanced through a reasoned,\n balanced approach such as is proposed with the \"Clipper\n Chip\" and similar encryption techniques.\n\nQ: What does this decision indicate about how the Clinton\n Administration's policy toward encryption will differ from\n that of the Bush Administration? \n\nA: It indicates that we understand the importance of encryption\n technology in telecommunications and computing and are\n committed to working with industry and public-interest\n groups to find innovative ways to protect Americans'\n privacy, help businesses to compete, and ensure that law\n enforcement agencies have the tools they need to fight crime\n and terrorism.\n\nQ: Will the devices be exportable? Will other devices that use\n the government hardware?\n\nA: Voice encryption devices are subject to export control\n requirements. Case-by-case review for each export is\n required to ensure appropriate use of these devices. The\n same is true for other encryption devices. One of the\n attractions of this technology is the protection it can give\n to U.S. companies operating at home and abroad. With this\n in mind, we expect export licenses will be granted on a\n case-by-case basis for U.S. companies seeking to use these\n devices to secure their own communications abroad. We plan\n to review the possibility of permitting wider exportability\n of these products.\n\n \n ", "\nWow! You got me thinking now!\n\nThis is an interesting question in that recently there has been a \nmove in society to classify previously \"socially unacceptable\" yet legal \nactivities as OK. In the past it seems to me there were always two \ncoexisting methods of social control.\n\nFirst (and most explicit) is legal control. That is the set of \nactions we define as currently illegal and having a specifically defined set \nof punishments.\n\nSecondly (and somewhat more hidden) is social control. These are \nthe actions which are considered socially unacceptable and while not covered \nby legal control, are scrictly controled by social censure. Ideally (if \nsocialization is working as it should) legal control is hardly ever needed \nsince most people voluntarilly control their actions due to the pressure of \nsocial censure.\n\nThe control manifests itself in day-to-day life as \"guilt\" and \n\"morality\". I've heard it said (and fully believe) that if it weren't for \nthe VAST majority of people policing themselves, legal control would be \nabsolutely impossible.\n\nLately (last 50, 100 years?) however there has been a move to \nattempt to dissengage the individual from societal control (ie. if it ain't \nillegal, then don't pick on me). I'm not saying this is wrong, merely \nthat it is a byproduct of a society which has:\n\n\t1) A high education level,\n\t2) A high exposure to alternative ideas via the popular media,\n\t3) A high level of institutionalized individual rights, and\n\t4) A \"me\" oriented culture.\n\nI guess what I'm saying is that we appear to be in a state of transition, \nhere in the western world in that we still have many ideas about what we can\\\ncan't allow people to do based entirely on personal squeamishness, yet we \nare fully bent on maximizing individual freedoms to the max as long as \nthose freedoms don't impinge on another's.\n\nIMHO society is trying to persue two mutually exclusive ends here. While we \nappreciate and persue individual rights (these satisfy the old \nterritoriality and dominance instincts), the removal of socialized, \ninherent fears based on ignorance will result in the \ncontinued destabilization of society. \n\nI got no quick fix. I have no idea how we can get ourselves out of this \nmess. I know I would never consent to the roll-back of personal freedoms \nin order to \"stabilize\" society. Yet I believe development of societies \nfollow a Darwinian process which selects for stability. Can we find a \nsocial model which maximizes indiv. freed.'s yet is stable? Perhaps it is \npossible to live with a \"non-stable\" society?\n\nAnybody see a way out? Comments?\n\nPS. Therefore answer to question #3: We don't. Do we want to?\n\n\n\nPhil Trodwell ", "\n\nOr alternatively, 75% of the questions cover 10% of the topics in this group -\nmaking them frequently asked.\n\nSo the other 25% cover 90% of the topics, making them rarely asked and thus in\nsore need of answering ...\n\n--\nChris Lilley\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTechnical Author, ITTI Computer Graphics and Visualisation Training Project\nComputer Graphics Unit, Manchester Computing Centre, Oxford Road, \nManchester, UK. M13 9PL Internet: C.C.Lilley@mcc.ac.uk \nVoice: +44 (0)61 275 6045 Fax: +44 (0)61 275 6040 Janet: C.C.Lilley@uk.ac.mcc", "\n\n\n\nSEI Level 5 (the highest level -- the SEI stands for Software\nEngineering Institute). I'm not sure, but I believe that this rating\nonly applies to the flight software. Also keep in mind that it was\n*not* achieved through the use of sophisticated tools, but rather\nthrough a 'brute force and ignorance' attack on the problem during the\nChallenger standdown - they simply threw hundreds of people at it and\ndid the whole process by hand. I would not consider receiving a 'Warning'\nstatus on systems which are not yet in use would detract much (if\nanything) from such a rating -- I'll have to get the latest copy of\nthe guidelines to make sure (they just issued new ones, I think).\n\nAlso keep in mind that the SEI levels are concerned primarily with\ncontrol of the software process; the assumption is that a\nwell controlled process will produce good software. Also keep in mind\nthat SEI Level 5 is DAMNED HARD. Most software in this country is\nproduced by 'engineering practicies' that only rate an SEI Level 1 (if\nthat). \n\n-- \n\"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live\n in the real world.\" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden", "#In <1qvabj$g1j@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) \n#\n#>In article cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike \n#\n#Am I making a wrong assumption for the basis of morals? Where do they come \n#from? The question came from the idea that I heard that morals come from\n#whatever is societally mandated.\n\nIt's only one aspect of morality. Societal morality is necessarily\nvery crude and broad-brush stuff which attempts to deal with what\nis necessary to keep that society going - and often it's a little\nover-enthusiastic about doing so. Individual morality is a different\nthing, it often includes societal mores (or society is in trouble),\nbut is stronger. For example, some people are vegetarian, though eating\nmeat may be perfectly legal.\n\n#\n#>#Merely a question for the basis of morality\n#>#\n#>#Moral/Ethical behavior = _Societally_ _acceptable_ _behavior_.\n#>#\n#>#1)Who is society\n#\n#>Depends on the society.\n#\n#Doesn't help. Is the point irrelevant?\n\nNo. Often the answer is \"we are\". But if society is those who make\nthe rules, that's a different question. If society is who should\nmake the rules, that's yet another. I don't claim to have the answers, either,\nbut I don't think we do it very well in Ireland, and I like some things\nabout the US system, at least in principle.\n\n#\n#>#2)How do \"they\" define what is acceptable?\n#\n#>Depends.\n#On.... Again, this comes from a certain question (see above).\n\nWell, ideally they don't, but if they must they should do it by consensus, IMO.\n#\n#>#3)How do we keep from a \"whatever is legal is what is \"moral\" \"position?\n#\n#>By adopting a default position that people's moral decisions\n#>are none of society's business,\n#\n#So how can we put people in jail? How can we condemn other societies?\n\nBecause sometimes that's necessary. The hard trick is to recognise when\nit is, and equally importantly, when it isn't.\n\n# and only interfering when it's truly\n#>necessary.\n#\n#Why would it be necessary? What right do we have to interfere?\n\nIMO, it isn't often that interference (i.e. jail, and force of various\nkinds and degrees) is both necessary and effective. Where you derive \nthe right to interfere is a difficult question - it's a sort of\nliar's paradox: \"force is necessary for freedom\". One possible justification\nis that people who wish to take away freedom shouldn't object if\ntheir own freedom is taken away - the paradox doesn't arise if\nwe don't actively wish to take way anyone's freedom.\n#\n# The introduction of permissible interference causes the problem\n#>that it can be either too much or too little - but most people seem\n#>to agree that some level of interference is necessary.\n#\n#They see the need for a \"justice\" system. How can we even define that term?\n\nOnly by consensus, I guess.\n\n# Thus you\n#>get a situation where \"The law often allows what honour forbids\", which I've\n#>come to believe is as it should be. \n#\n#I admit I don't understand that statement.\n\nWhat I mean is that, while thus-and-such may be legal, thus-and-such may\nalso be seen as immoral. The law lets you do it, but you don't let yourself\ndo it. Eating meat, for example.", "\nYou should realize that form letters are the *worst* way to influence\nyour congresscritters; exact copies are routinely placed on the lowest\nrung of the opinion ladder.\n\nIf you want to write (and I think you should!), take the time to really\n*write* a letter. Things to emphasize:\n\n\t- It's been said that Usenet is available to the 'technical\n\t elite', i.e. the techies at corporate sites and universi-\n\t ties. Emphasize that you are part of the group that will\n\t be making/developing/using Clinton's 'data superhighway.'\n\n\t- Explain how you are intimately familiar with both computing\n\t and data communications. (if this is the case; don't call your-\n\t self an 'expert' after wiring in a 1200 bps modem.) This\n\t will distinguish your letter from the random flamers. Don't\n\t turn it into braggadocio; just tell them that you know the\n\t technical sides of the issue.\n\n\t- Don't overdo jargon and gobbledygook. Remember, your letter\n\t will be first read (in all likelihood) by a staffer who may\n\t even be a college student; if they don't understand it, your\n\t views won't even make the 'running total' sheets.\n\n\t- Be concise; don't ramble. Rants are *definitely* out of place.\n\t Cite references, if necessary, but only use \"accepted\" references\n\t like academic journals. \"My neighbor Jim\" is *not* a real refer-\n\t ence. 8)\n\n\t- Unfortunately, very few Congresscritters *really* understand\n\t electronic communications. Encourage them to pick up access\n\t to Compuserve, America Online, or one of the Free-Nets. Offer\n\t to send them samples. If you are in a position to do so, offer\n\t them (or their staffers back in the home state) access to your\n\t systems. Offer to give a demonstration the next time they're in\n\t town. Your offer to get *personally* involved in helping them\n\t *will* give your opinions more credence.\n\n\t- In addition to sending mail to your representatives, send mail\n\t to the members of the committee (or subcommittee) that is dealing\n\t with the issue. If your Congresscritter isn't on the committee,\n\t they can't be of much help until the matter comes to the floor.\n\n--Wes\n\nps> I'd suggest drawing analogies between digital communication and the\n more traditional media, but Usenet doesn't have a decent track record\n in the analogy department. 8)\n", "I am curious if anyone in net-land has spent any time at any of the L'Abri\nhouses throughout the world and what the experience was like, how it affected\nyou, etc. Especially interesting would be experiences at the original L'Abri\nin Switzerland and personal interactions with Francis and/or Edith Schaeffer.", "Are any readers of s.r.c. going to the Love Europe congress in Germany this\nJuly?", " \n \n \nThe point about its being real or not is that one does not waste time with\nwhat reality might be when one wants predictions. The questions if the\natoms are there or if something else is there making measurements indicate\natoms is not necessary in such a system.\n \nAnd one does not have to write a new theory of existence everytime new\nmodels are used in Physics.", "\nI'm sure the whole newspaper is copyrighted. They could have gotten\npermission to use the image under their own copyright.", " \n \nHere we go again.\n \n========================================================================", "G'day All,\n\nI was looking to build a Parallel Port Digital to Analogue Converter the other\nday and came across this schematic which I promptly threw together on a piece\nof VeroBoard:\n\n\n P2----22k----+\n P3----48k----|\n P4----100k---|\n P5----200k---|\n P6----400k---|\n P7----800k---| 10uf electrolytic\n P8----1M6----| +\n P9----3M2----+---||--+----------\n | +\n 47nF ceramic - \n -\n | -\n P25------------------+----------\n\n\n(Please excuse the obvious limits of the Lower ASCII char set :=)\n\nI have it all constructed here and sitting inside a nice little grey ABS box.\n\nUnfortunately I can't get it to work... I have a little demo here by the name\nof Cronologia (Which the schematic came from) and all I can get it to pump\nout of the box is data type hash/static with a small amount of music signal\nbehind it - it's even worse than the speaker inside the machine.\n\nDoes anybody out in net.colourful.computer.world have any ideas/suggestions/\nbetter designs/improvements/wastepaper bin... etc?\n\nMany thanks for a reply via this conference or email.\n\n //\n\\X/ Regards, Jason.\n---", "We have received a number of requests for a reposting of the\nInternational Obfuscated C Code Contest rules and guidelines. Also\nsome people requested that these rules be posted to a wider set of\ngroups. Sorry for the cross posting.\n\nSome technical clarifications were made to the rules and guidelines\n(See the diff marks at the right hand edge). The rules and guidelines\nfor this year remain the same, so people who have already or are\nin the process of submitting entries for the 1993 IOCCC need not worry \nabout these changes.\n\nchongo /\\cc/\\ chongo@toad.com\nLarry Bassel lab@sun.com\n\n=-=\n\n#!/bin/sh\n# This is a shell archive (shar 3.32)\n# made 04/05/1993 23:00 UTC by chongo@toad.com\n# Source directory /tmp\n#\n# existing files WILL be overwritten\n#\n# This shar contains:\n# length mode name\n# ------ ---------- ------------------------------------------\n# 8971 -r--r--r-- rules\n# 25592 -r--r--r-- guidelines\n# 34482 -r--r--r-- mkentry.c\n# 6418 -r--r--r-- obfuscate.info\n#\n# ============= rules ==============\necho \"x - extracting rules (Text)\"\nsed 's/^X//' << 'SHAR_EOF' > rules &&\nX10th International Obfuscated C Code Contest Rules\nX\nXCopyright (c) Landon Curt Noll & Larry Bassel, 1993.\nXAll Rights Reserved. Permission for personal, education or non-profit use is\nXgranted provided this this copyright and notice are included in its entirety\nXand remains unaltered. All other uses must receive prior permission in writing\nXfrom both Landon Curt Noll and Larry Bassel.\nX\nX Obfuscate: tr.v. -cated, -cating, -cates. 1. a. To render obscure.\nX\t\tb. To darken. 2. To confuse: his emotions obfuscated his\nX\t\tjudgment. [LLat. obfuscare, to darken : ob(intensive) +\nX\t\tLat. fuscare, to darken < fuscus, dark.] -obfuscation n.\nX\t\tobfuscatory adj.\nX\nX\nXGOALS OF THE CONTEST:\nX\nX * To write the most Obscure/Obfuscated C program under the rules below.\nX * To show the importance of programming style, in an ironic way.\nX * To stress C compilers with unusual code.\nX * To illustrate some of the subtleties of the C language.\nX * To provide a safe forum for poor C code. :-)\nX\nX\nXNOTE: Changes from the 1993 draft are noted by change bars. --->\t |\nX\nX\nXRULES:\nX\nX To help us with the volume of entries, we ask that you follow these rules:\nX\nX 1) Your entry must be a complete program.\nX\nX 2) Your entry must be <= 3217 bytes in length. The number of characters\nX excluding whitespace (tab, space, newline), and excluding any ; { or }\nX followed by either whitespace or end of file, must be <= 1536.\nX\nX 3) Your entry must be submitted in the following format:\nX\nX---entry---\nXrule:\t1993\nXfix:\ty or n (n => this is a new entry, y => this replaces an older entry)\nXtitle:\ttitle of entry \t\t (see comments below)\nXentry:\tEntry number from 0 to 7 inclusive (your 1st entry should by 0)\nXdate:\tDate/time of submission in UTC\t (see comments below)\nXhost:\tMachine(s) and OS(s) under which your entry was tested\nX\tUse tab indented lines if needed\nX---remark---\nX Place remarks about this entry in this section. It would be helpful if\nX you were to indent your remarks with 4 spaces, though it is not a\nX requirement. Also, if possible, try to avoid going beyond the 79th\nX column. Blank lines are permitted.\nX---author---\nXname:\tyour name\nXorg:\tSchool/Company/Organization\nXaddr:\tpostal address\nX\tuse tab indented lines to continue\nX\tdon't forget to include the country\nXemail: Email address from a well known site or registered domain.\nX If you give several forms, list them on separate tab indented lines.\nXanon:\ty or n (y => remain anonymous, n => ok to publish this info)\nX---info---\nXIf your program needs an info file, place a uuencoded copy of it in\nXthis section. In the case of multiple info files, use multiple info\nXsections. If your entry does not need a info file, skip this section.\nX---build---\nXPlace a uuencoded copy of the command(s) used to compile/build your program\nXin this section. It must uudecode into a file named 'build'. The resulting\nXfile must be 255 bytes or less.\nX---program---\nXPlace a uuencoded copy of your program in this section. It must uudecode\nXinto a file named is 'prog.c'. The resulting file must follow rule #2.\nX---end---\nX\nX Regarding the above format:\nX\nX\t* The title must match the expression: [a-zA-Z0-9_=][a-zA-Z0-9_=+-]*\nX\t and must be 1 to 12 characters in length.\nX\nX\t It is suggested, but not required, that the title should\nX\t incorporate your username; in the case of multiple authors,\nX\t consider using parts of the usernames of the authors.\nX\nX\t* The date in the ---entry--- section should be given with respect\nX\t to UTC. The format of the date should be as returned by asctime()\nX\t using the C locale. (see guidelines for more info)\nX\nX\t* You may correct/revise a previously submitted entry by sending\nX\t it to the contest email address. Be sure to set 'fix' in the\nX\t ---entry--- section to 'n'. The corrected entry must use the same\nX\t title and entry number as submittion that is being corrected. Be\nX\t sure that you note the resubmittion in the ---remark--- as well.\nX\nX\t* With the exception of the header, all text outside of the above\nX\t format may be ignored by the judges. If you need tell the judges\nX\t something, put it in the ---remark--- section, or send a separate\nX\t Email message to the judges.\nX\nX\t* Information from the ---author--- section will be published unless\nX\t 'y' was given to the respective author's 'anon' line.\nX\nX\t* To credit multiple authors, include an ---author--- section for\nX\t each author. Each should start with ---author--- line, and\nX\t should be found between the ---entry--- and ---build--- sections.\nX\nX\t* The entry's remarks should include:\nX\t - what this program does\nX\t - how to run the program (sample args or input)\nX\t - special compile or execution instructions, if any\nX\t - special filename requirements (see rule 4 and 5)\nX\t - information about any ---data--- files\nX\t - why you think the program is obfuscated\nX\t - note if this entry is a re-submission of a previous entry.\nX\t - any other remarks (humorous or otherwise)\nX\nX\t* Do not rot13 your entry's remarks. You may suggest that certain\nX\t portions of your remarks be rot13ed if your entry wins an award.\nX\nX * Info files should be used only to supplement your entry. They\nX\t should not be required to exist.\nX\nX\t If your entry does not need an info file, skip the ---info---\nX\t section. If your entry needs multiple info files, use multiple\nX\t ---info--- sections, one per info file. You should describe\nX\t each info file in the ---remark--- section.\nX\nX 4) If your entry is selected as a winner, it will be modified as follows:\nX\nX\t 'build' is incorporated into a makefile, and 'build' is removed\nX\t 'prog.c' is renamed to your entry's title, followed by an optional\nX\t digit, followed by '.c'\nX\t your entry is compiled into a file with the name of your entry's\nX\t title, possibly followed by a digit\nX\nX If your entry requires that a build file exist, state so in your\nX entry's remark section. The makefile will be arranged to execute a\nX build shell script containing the 'build' information. The name of\nX this build shell script will be your entry's title, possibly followed\nX by a digit, followed by '.sh'.\nX\nX If needed, your entry's remarks should indicate how your entry must\nX be changed in order to deal with the new filenames.\nX\nX 5) The build file, the source and the resulting executable should be\nX treated as read-only files. If your entry needs to modify these files,\nX it should make and modify a copy of the appropriate file. If this\nX occurs, state so in your entry's remarks.\nX\nX 6) Entries that cannot be compiled by an ANSI C compiler will be rejected.\nX Use of common C (K&R + extensions) is permitted, as long as it does not\nX cause compile errors for ANSI C compilers.\nX\nX 7) The program must be of original work. All programs must be in the\nX public domain. All copyrighted programs will be rejected.\nX\nX 8) Entries must be received prior to 07-May-93 0:00 UTC. (UTC is\nX essentially equivalent to Greenwich Mean Time) Email your entries to:\nX\nX\t\t...!{apple,pyramid,sun,uunet}!hoptoad!obfuscate\nX\t\tobfuscate@toad.com\nX\nX We request that your message use the subject 'ioccc entry'.\nX\nX If possible, we request that you hold off on Emailing your entries\nX until 1-Mar-93 0:00 UTC. Early entries will be accepted, however.\nX We will attempt to email a confirmation to the the first author for\nX all entries received after 1-Mar-93 0:00 UTC.\nX\nX 9) Each person may submit up to 8 entries per contest year. Each entry\nX must be sent in a separate Email letter.\nX\nX 10) Entries requiring human interaction to be built are not allowed.\nX Compiling an entry produce a file (or files) which may be executed.\nX\nX 11) Programs that require special privileges (setuid, setgid, super-user,\nX special owner or group) are not allowed.\nX\nX\nXFOR MORE INFORMATION:\nX\nX The Judging will be done by Landon Noll and Larry Bassel. Please send\nX questions or comments about the contest, to:\nX\nX\t...!{apple,pyramid,sun,uunet}!hoptoad!judges\t(not the address for |\nX\tjudges@toad.com\t\t\t\t\t submitting entries) |\nX\nX The rules and the guidelines may (and often do) change from year to\nX year. You should be sure you have the current rules and guidelines\nX prior to submitting entries. To obtain them, send Email to the address |\nX above and use the subject 'send rules'.\t\t\t\t |\nX\nX One may obtain winners of previous contests (1984 to date), via ftp from: |\nX\nX\thost: ftp.uu.net\t(192.48.96.9)\t\t\t\t |\nX\tuser: anonymous\nX\tpass: yourname@yourhost\nX\tdir: ~/pub/ioccc\t\t\t\t\t\t |\nX\nX As a last resort, previous winners may be obtained by sending Email |\nX to the above address. Please use the subject 'send YEAR winners', |\nX where YEAR is a single 4 digit year, a year range, or 'all'.\t |\nX\nX\nXchongo /\\cc/\\ \tchongo@toad.com\t\t\t |\nXLarry Bassel\t\t\t \tlab@sun.com\t\t\t |\nSHAR_EOF\nchmod 0444 rules ||\necho \"restore of rules failed\"\nset `wc -c rules`;Wc_c=$1\nif test \"$Wc_c\" != \"8971\"; then\n\techo original size 8971, current size $Wc_c\nfi\n# ============= guidelines ==============\necho \"x - extracting guidelines (Text)\"\nsed 's/^X//' << 'SHAR_EOF' > guidelines &&\nX10th International Obfuscated C Code Contest Guidelines, Hints and Comments\nX\nXCopyright (c) Landon Curt Noll & Larry Bassel, 1993.\nXAll Rights Reserved. Permission for personal, education or non-profit use is\nXgranted provided this this copyright and notice are included in its entirety\nXand remains unaltered. All other uses must receive prior permission in writing\nXfrom both Landon Curt Noll and Larry Bassel.\nX\nXABOUT THIS FILE:\nX\nX This file is intended to help people who wish to submit entries to\nX the International Obfuscated C Code Contest (IOCCC for short).\nX\nX This is not the IOCCC rules, though it does contain comments about\nX them. The guidelines should be viewed as hints and suggestions.\nX Entries that violate the guidelines but remain within the rules are\nX allowed. Even so, you are safer if you remain within the guidelines.\nX\nX You should read the current IOCCC rules, prior to submitting entries.\nX The rules are typically sent out with these guidelines.\nX\nX Changes from the 1993 draft are noted by change bars. --->\t\t |\nX\nX\nXWHAT IS NEW IN 1993:\nX\nX The entry format is better (for us anyway). The program mkentry.c\nX has been updated. See ENTRY FORMAT.\nX\nX We will reject entries that cannot be compiled using an ANSI C\nX compiler. Certain old Obfuscation hacks that cause ANSI C compilers\nX fits are no longer permitted. Some of the new issues deal with\nX non-integral array types, variable number of arguments, C preprocessor\nX directives and the exit() function. See OUR LIKES AND DISLIKES.\nX\nX\nXHINTS AND SUGGESTIONS:\nX\nX You are encouraged to examine the winners of previous contests. See\nX FOR MORE INFORMATION for details on how to get previous winners.\nX\nX Keep in mind that rules change from year to year, so some winning entries\nX may not be valid entries this year. What was unique and novel one year\nX might be 'old' the next year.\nX\nX An entry is usually examined in a number of ways. We typically apply\nX a number of tests to an entry:\nX\nX\t* look at the original source\nX\t* convert ANSI tri-graphs to ASCII\nX\t* C pre-process the source ignoring '#include' lines\nX\t* C pre-process the source ignoring '#define' and '#include' lines\nX\t* run it through a C beautifier\nX\t* examine the algorithm\nX\t* lint it\nX\t* compile it\nX\t* execute it\nX\nX You should consider how your entry looks in each of the above tests.\nX You should ask yourself if your entry remains obscure after it has been\nX 'cleaned up' by the C pre-processor and a C beautifier.\nX\nX Your entry need not do well under all, or in most tests. In certain\nX cases, a test is not important. Entries that compete for the\nX 'strangest/most creative source layout' need not do as well as\nX others in terms of their algorithm. On the other hand, given\nX two such entries, we are more inclined to pick the entry that\nX does something interesting when you run it.\nX\nX We try to avoid limiting creativity in our rules. As such, we leave\nX the contest open for creative rule interpretation. As in real life\nX programming, interpreting a requirements document or a customer request\nX is important. For this reason, we often award 'worst abuse of the\nX rules' to an entry that illustrates this point in an ironic way.\nX\nX If you do plan to abuse the rules, we suggest that you let us know\nX in the remarks section. Please note that an invitation to abuse\nX is not an invitation to break. We are strict when it comes to the\nX 3217 byte size limit. Also, abusing the entry format tends to\nX annoy more than amuse.\nX\nX We do realize that there are holes in the rules, and invite entries\nX to attempt to exploit them. We will award 'worst abuse of the rules'\nX and then plug the hole next year. Even so, we will attempt to use\nX the smallest plug needed, if not smaller. :-)\nX\nX Check out your program and be sure that it works. We sometimes make\nX the effort to debug an entry that has a slight problem, particularly\nX in or near the final round. On the other hand, we have seen some\nX of the best entries fall down because they didn't work.\nX\nX We tend to look down on a prime number printer, that claims that\nX 16 is a prime number. If you do have a bug, you are better off\nX documenting it. Noting \"this entry sometimes prints the 4th power\nX of a prime by mistake\" would save the above entry. And sometimes,\nX a strange bug/feature can even help the entry! Of course, a correctly\nX working entry is best.\nX\nX\nXOUR LIKES AND DISLIKES:\nX\nX Doing masses of #defines to obscure the source has become 'old'. We\nX tend to 'see thru' masses of #defines due to our pre-processor tests\nX that we apply. Simply abusing #defines or -Dfoo=bar won't go as far\nX as a program that is more well rounded in confusion.\nX\nX Many ANSI C compilers dislike the following code, and so do we:\nX\nX\t#define d define\nX\t#d foo\t\t <-- don't expect this to turn into #define foo\nX\nX\tint i;\nX\tj;\t\t <-- don't use such implicit type declaration\nX\tint k;\nX\nX We suggest that you compile your entry with an ANSI C compiler. If you\nX must use non-ANSI C, such as K&R C, you must avoid areas that result in\nX compile/link errors for ANSI C compilers.\nX\nX Unfortunately, some ANSI C compilers require array indexes to be of |\nX integral type. Thus, the following classical obfuscation hacks should |\nX not be used in 1993. This rule may be relaxed in future contests.\t |\nX\nX\tint i;\nX\tchar *c;\nX\ti[c];\t\t <--- use c[i] instead\nX\t(i+3)[\"string\"]; <--- use \"string\"[i+3] instead\nX\nX If your entry uses functions that have a variable number of\nX arguments, be careful. Systems implement va_list as a wide variety\nX of ways. Because of this, a number of operations using va_list are\nX not portable and must not be used:\nX\nX\t* assigning a non-va_list variable to/from a va_list variable\nX\t* casting a non-va_list variable into/from a va_list variable\nX\t* passing a va_list variable to a function expecting a non-va_list arg\nX\t* passing a non-va_list variable to a function expecting a va_list arg\nX\t* performing arithmetic on va_list variables\nX\t* using va_list as a structure or union\nX\nX In particular, do not treat va_list variables as if they were a char **'s.\nX\nX Avoid using , use instead.\nX\nX If you use C preprocessor directives (#define, #if, #ifdef, ...),\nX the leading '#' must be the first character on a line. While some\nX C preprocessors allow whitespace the leading '#', many do not.\nX\nX Because the exit() function returns void on some systems, entries\nX must not assume that it returns an int.\nX\nX Small programs are best when they are short, obscure and concise.\nX While such programs are not as complex as other winners, they do\nX serve a useful purpose. They are often the only program that people\nX attempt to completely understand. For this reason, we look for\nX programs that are compact, and are instructional.\nX\nX One line programs should be short one line programs, say around 80\nX bytes long. Getting close to 160 bytes is a bit too long in our opinion.\nX\nX We tend to dislike programs that:\nX\nX\t* are very hardware specific\nX\t* are very OS or Un*x version specific\nX\t (index/strchr differences are ok, but socket/streams specific\nX\t code is likely not to be)\nX\t* dump core or have compiler warnings\nX\t (it is ok only if you warn us in the 'remark' header item)\nX\t* won't compile under both BSD or SYS V Un*x\nX\t* abusing the build file to get around the size limit\nX\t* obfuscate by excessive use of ANSI tri-graphs\nX\t* are longer than they need to be\nX\t* are similar to previous winners\nX\t* are identical to previous losers :-)\nX\nX Unless you are cramped for space, or unless you are entering the\nX 'best one liner' category, we suggest that you format your program\nX in a more creative way than simply forming excessively long lines.\nX\nX The build file should not be used to try and get around the size\nX limit. It is one thing to make use of a several -D's to help out,\nX but it is quite another to use 200+ bytes of -D's in order to\nX try and squeeze the source under the size limit. You should feel\nX free to make use of the build file space, but you are better off\nX if you show some amount of restraint.\nX\nX We allowed whitespace, and in certain cases ; { or } do not impact\nX your program size (up to a certain point), because we want to get\nX away from source that is simply a compact blob of characters.\nX\nX Given two versions of the same program, one that is a compact blob\nX of code, and the other that is formatted more like a typical C\nX program, we tend to favor the second version. Of course, a third\nX version of the same program that is formatted in an interesting\nX and/or obfuscated way, would definitely win over the first two!\nX\nX We suggest that you avoid trying for the 'smallest self-replicating'\nX program. We are amazed at the many different sizes that claim\nX to be the smallest. There is nothing wrong with self-replicating\nX programs. In fact, a number of winners have been self-replicating.\nX You might want to avoid the claim of 'smallest', lest we (or others)\nX know of a smaller one!\nX\nX X client entries should be as portable as possible. Entries that\nX adapt to a wide collection of environments will be favored. Don't\nX depend on a particular type of display. For example, don't depend\nX on color or a given size. Don't require backing store.\nX\nX X client entries should avoid using X related libraries and\nX software that is not in wide spread use. We ask that such X client\nX entries restrict themselves to only the low level Xlib and the\nX Athena widget set (libX11.a, libXaw.a, libXmu.a and libXt.a).\nX Don't use M*tif, Xv*ew, or OpenL*ok toolkits, since not everyone\nX has them. Avoid depending on a particular window manager. Not\nX everyone has X11r5, and some people are stuck back in X11r4 (or\nX earlier), so try to target X11r5 without requiring X11r5. Better\nX yet, try to make your entry run on all version 11 X Window Systems.\nX\nX X client entries should not to depend on particular items on\nX .Xdefaults. If you must do so, be sure to note the required lines\nX in the ---remark--- section.\nX\nX We like programs that:\nX\nX\t* are as concise and small as they need to be\nX\t* do something at least quasi-interesting\nX\t* pass lint without complaint (not a requirement, but it is nice)\nX\t* are portable\nX\t* are unique or novel in their obfuscation style\nX\t* MAKE USE OF A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF OBFUSCATION\nX\t* make us laugh and/or throw up :-)\nX\nX Some types of programs can't excel in some areas. Of course, your\nX program doesn't have to excel in all areas, but doing well in several\nX areas really does help.\nX\nX We freely admit that interesting, creative or humorous comments in\nX the ---remark--- section helps your chance of winning. If you had to\nX read of many twisted entries, you too would enjoy a good laugh or two.\nX We think the readers of the contest winners do as well.\nX\nX Be creative!\nX\nX\nXENTRY FORMAT:\nX\nX In order to help us process the many entries, we must request your\nX assistance by formatting your entries in a certain way. This format,\nX in addition, allows us to quickly separate information about the\nX author from the program itself. (see JUDGING PROCESS)\nX\nX We have provided the program, mkentry, as an example of how to\nX format entries. You should be aware of the following warning that\nX is found in mkentry.c:\nX\nX\tThis program attempts to implement the IOCCC rules. Every\nX\tattempt has been made to make sure that this program produces\nX\tan entry that conforms to the contest rules. In all cases,\nX\twhere this program differs from the contest rules, the\nX\tcontest rules will be used. Be sure to check with the\nX\tcontest rules before submitting an entry.\nX\nX You are not required to use mkentry. It is convenient, however,\nX as it attempts to uuencode the needed files, and attempt to check\nX the entry against the size rules.\nX\nX If you have any suggestions, comments, fixes or complaints about\nX the mkentry.c program, please send Email to the judges. (see below)\nX\nX The following is a sample entry:\nX\nX---entry---\nXrule:\t1993\nXfix:\tn\nXtitle:\tchonglab\nXentry:\t0\nXdate:\tMon Mar 1 08:45:20 1993\nXhost:\tUn*x v6, pdp11/45\nX\t2.9BSD, pdp11/70\nX---remark---\nX This is a non-obfuscated obfuscated C program.\nX\nX It is likely not to win a prize. But what do you expect from\nX a short example!\nX---author---\nXname:\tLandon Curt Noll\nXorg:\tIOCCC Judging Group\nXaddr:\tToad Hall\nX\tPO Box 170608\nX\tSan Francisco, California\nX\t94117-0608\nX\tUSA\nXemail:\tchongo@toad.com\nXanon:\tn\nX---author---\nXname:\tLarry Bassel\nXorg:\tIOCCC Judging Group\nXaddr:\tToad Hall\nX\tPO Box 170608\nX\tSan Francisco, California\nX\t94117-0608\nX\tUSA\nXemail:\thoptoad!sun!lab\nX\tlab@sun.com\nXanon:\tn\nX---info---\nXbegin 444 info.file\nXM0V]P>7)I9VAT(\"AC*2!,86YD;VX@0W5R=\"!.;VQL+\"`Q.3DS+@I!;&P@4FEG\nXM:'1S(%)E65A2!A8W1U86QL>2!D96-O9&5D('1H:7,@9FEL92X*22!W;VYD97(@:&]W(&UA\nX9;GD@=VEL;\"!D;R!I=\"!T:&ES('EE87(_\"@``\nX`\nXend\nX---build---\nXbegin 444 build\nX28V,@<')O9RYC(\"UO('!R;V<*\nX`\nXend\nX---program---\nXbegin 444 prog.c\nXM;6%I;B@I\"GL*(VEF(&1E9FEN960H05]214=)4U1%4D5$7U9/5$527TE.7U-5\nXM3DY95D%,15]#04Q)1D]23DE!7U5302D*(\"`@('!R:6YT9B@B5F]T92!,86YD\nXM;VX@3F]L;\"!F;W(@4W5N;GEV86QE($-I='D@0V]U;F-I;\"!S96%T(\",Q+EQN\nX:(BD[\"B-E;F1I9@H@(\"`@97AI=\"@P*3L*?0H`\nX`\nXend\nX---end---\nX\nX Typically the build file should assume that the source is prog.c\nX and will compile into prog. If an entry wins, we will rename\nX its source and binary to avoid filename collision. By tradition,\nX we use the name of the entry's title, followed by an optional\nX digit in case of name conflicts.\nX\nX If the above entry somehow won the 'least likely to win' award,\nX we would use chonglab.c and chonglab.\nX\nX If your entry depends on, or requires that your build, source\nX and/or binary files be a particular name, please say so in the\nX ---remark--- section. If this case applies, it would be be helpful\nX if you did one of the following:\nX\nX\t* Tell us how to change the filename(s) in your entry.\nX\nX\t* Have the build file make copies of the files. For example:\nX\nX\t\tcc prog.c -o special_name\t\tneed special binary\nX\nX\t or rm -f special_src.c\t\t\tneed special source\nX\t\tcp prog.c special_src.c\nX\t\tcc special_src.c -o special_name\nX\nX\t or rm -f special_build\t\t\tneed special build\nX\t\ttail +4 build > special_build\nX\t\tsh < special_build\nX\nX\t* Assume that we will use the entry title. Send us a version of\nX\t your build/program files that uses the name convention. You\nX\t should uuencode these files in ---data--- sections.\nX\nX If your entry needs to modify its source, info or binary files,\nX please say so in the ---remark--- section. You should try to avoid\nX touching your original build, source and binary files. You should\nX arrange to make copies of the files you intend to modify. This\nX will allow people to re-generate your entry from scratch.\nX\nX Remember that your entry may be built without a build file. We\nX typically incorporate the build lines into a Makefile. If the\nX build file must exist, say so in the ---remark--- section.\nX\nX If your entry needs special info files, you should uuencode them\nX into ---info--- sections. In the case of multiple info files,\nX use multiple ---info--- sections. If no info files are needed,\nX then skip the ---info--- section.\nX\nX Info files are intended to be input, or detailed information that\nX does not fit well into the ---remark--- section. For example, an\nX entry that implements a compiler might want to provide some sample\nX programs for the user to compile. An entry might want to include a\nX lengthy design document, that might not be appropriate for a\nX 'hints' file.\nX\nX Info files should be used only to supplement your entry. For\nX example, info files may provide sample input or detailed\nX information about your entry. Because they are supplemental,\nX the entry should not require them exist.\nX\nX In some cases, your info files might be renamed to avoid name\nX conflicts. If info files should not be renamed for some reason,\nX say so in the ---remark--- section.\nX\nX Info files must uudecode into the current directory. If they\nX absolutely must be renamed, or moved into a sub-directory, say\nX so in the ---remark--- section.\nX\nX When submitting multiple entries, be sure that each entry has\nX a unique entry number from 0 to 7. Your first entry should\nX have entry number 0.\nX\nX With the exception of the header, all text outside of the entry\nX format may be ignored. That is, don't place text outside of the\nX entry and expect the judges to see it. (Our decoding tools aren't\nX AI progs!) If you need tell the the something, put it in the\nX ---remark--- section, or send a Email to the judges at:\nX\nX\t...!{apple,pyramid,sun,uunet}!hoptoad!judges\t(not the address for\nX\tjudges@toad.com\t\t\t\t\t submitting entries)\nX\nX The date should be given with respect to UTC. (Some systems refer\nX to this as GMT or GMT0) The format of the date should be that as\nX returned by asctime() in the C locale. An example of such a string is:\nX\nX\tThr Apr 01 00:47:00 1993\nX\nX This format is similar to the output of the date(1) command. The\nX string does not include the timezone name before the year. On many\nX systems, one of the following command will produce a similar string:\nX\nX\tdate -u \"+%a %h %d %T 19%y\"\nX\tdate -u | sed -e 's/... \\(19[0-9][0-9]\\)$/\\1/'\nX\tsh -c 'TZ=UTC date | sed -e \"s/... \\(19[0-9][0-9]\\)$/\\1/\"'\nX\tsh -c 'TZ=GMT date | sed -e \"s/... \\(19[0-9][0-9]\\)$/\\1/\"'\nX\tsh -c 'TZ=GMT0 date | sed -e \"s/... \\(19[0-9][0-9]\\)$/\\1/\"'\nX\nX You are allowed to update/fix/revise your entry. To do so, set\nX the 'fix' line in the ---entry--- section to 'y' instead of 'n'.\nX Be sure that the resubmittion uses the same title and entry number\nX as well, as these are used to determine which entry is to be\nX replaced.\nX\nX\nXJUDGING PROCESS:\nX\nX Entries are judged by Larry Bassel and Landon Curt Noll.\nX\nX Entries are unpacked into individual directories. The Email message\nX is unpacked into individual files, each containing:\nX\nX\t---entry--- section\nX\tall ---author--- sections\nX\tall ---info--- sections\nX\t---build--- section\nX\t---program--- section\nX\tany other text, including the Email message headers\nX\nX Prior to judging, the 'any other text' file is scanned to be sure\nX it does not contain useful information (or in case the entry was\nX malformed and did not unpack correctly). Information from the\nX ---author--- sections are not read until the judging process is\nX complete, and then only from entries that have won an award.\nX\nX The above process helps keep us biased for/against any one particular\nX individual. We are usually kept in the dark as much as you are\nX until the final awards are given. We like the surprise of finding\nX out in the end, who won and where they were from.\nX\nX We attempt to keep all entries anonymous, unless they win an award.\nX Because the main 'prize' of winning is being announced, we make all\nX attempts to send non-winners into oblivion. We remove all non-winning\nX files, and shred all related paper. By tradition, we do not even\nX reveal the number of entries that we received. (for the curious,\nX we do indicate the volume of paper consumed when presenting the IOCCC\nX winners at talks)\nX\nX After the Usenix announcement, we attempt to send Email to the\nX authors of the winning entries. One reason we do this is to give\nX the authors a chance to comment on the way we have presented their\nX entry. They are given the chance to correct mistakes, typos. We\nX often accept their suggestions/comments about our remarks as well.\nX This is done prior to posting the winners to the wide world.\nX\nX Judging consists of a number of elimination rounds. During a round,\nX the collection of entries are divided into two roughly equal piles;\nX the pile that advances on to the next round, and the pile that does\nX not. We also re-examine the entries that were eliminated in the\nX previous round. Thus, an entry gets at least two readings.\nX\nX A reading consists of a number of actions:\nX\nX\t* reading the ---entry--- section\nX\t* reading the uudecoded ---build--- section\nX\t* reading the uudecoded ---program--- section\nX\t* reading the uudecoded ---info--- section(s), if any\nX\t* passing the source thru the C pre-processor\nX\t shipping over any #include files\nX\t* performing a number of C beautify/cleanup edits on the source\nX\t* passing the beautified source thru the C pre-processor\nX\t shipping over any #include files\nX\nX In later rounds, other actions are performed:\nX\nX\t* linting the source\nX\t* compiling/building the source\nX\t* running the program\nX\t* performing misc tests on the source and binary\nX\nX Until we reduce the stack of entries down to about 25 entries, entries\nX are judged on an individual basis. An entry is set aside because it\nX does not, in our opinion, meet the standard established by the round.\nX When the number of entries thins to about 25 entries, we begin to form\nX award categories. Entries begin to compete with each other for awards.\nX An entry often will compete in several categories.\nX\nX The actual award category list will vary depending on the types of entries\nX we receive. A typical category list might be:\nX\nX\t* best small one line program\nX\t* best small program\nX\t* strangest/most creative source layout\nX\t* most useful obfuscated program\nX\t* best game that is obfuscated\nX\t* most creatively obfuscated program\nX\t* most deceptive C code\nX\t* best X client (see OUR LIKES AND DISLIKES)\nX\t* best abuse of ANSI C\nX\t* worst abuse of the rules\nX\t* \nX\nX We do not limit ourselves to this list. For example, a few entries are so\nX good/bad that they are declared winners at the start of the final round.\nX We will invent awards categories for them, if necessary.\nX\nX In the final round process, we perform the difficult tasks of\nX reducing the remaining entries (typically about 25) down to 8 or 10\nX winners. Often we are confident that the entries that make it into\nX the final round are definitely better than the ones that do not\nX make it. The selection of the winners out of the final round, is\nX less clear cut.\nX\nX Sometimes a final round entry good enough to win, but is beat out\nX by a similar, but slightly better entry. For this reason, it is\nX sometimes worthwhile to re-enter an improved version of an entry\nX that failed to win in a previous year. This assumes, of course,\nX that the entry is worth improving in the first place!\nX\nX More often that not, we select a small entry (usually one line), a\nX strange/creative layout entry, and an entry that abuses the contest\nX rules in some way.\nX\nX In the end, we traditionally pick one entry as 'best'. Sometimes such\nX an entry simply far exceeds any of the other entry. More often, the\nX 'best' is picked because it does well in a number of categories.\nX\nX\nXANNOUNCEMENT OF WINNERS:\nX\nX The first announcement, occurs at a Summer Usenix conference. By tradition,\nX this is done during the latter part of the UUNET/IOCCC BOF, just prior to\nX the Berkeley BSD, and BSDI BOF.\nX\nX Winning entries will be posted in late June to the following groups:\nX\nX\t comp.lang.c\t\t comp.unix.wizards\talt.sources\nX\nX In addition, pointers to these postings are posted to the following\nX\nX\t comp.sources.d\t alt.sources.d\t\tmisc.misc\nX\t comp.sources.misc\t comp.windows.x\nX\nX Winning entries will be deposited into the uunet archives. See\nX below for details.\nX\nX Often, winning entries are published in selected magazines. Winners\nX have appeared in books (\"The New Hackers Dictionary\") and on T-Shirts.\nX\nX Last, but not least, winners receive international fame and flames! :-)\nX\nX\nXFOR MORE INFORMATION:\nX\nX You may contact the judges by sending Email to the following address:\nX\nX\t...!{apple,pyramid,sun,uunet}!hoptoad!judges\t(not the address for\nX\tjudges@toad.com\t\t\t\t\t submitting entries)\nX\nX Questions and comments about the contest are welcome.\nX\nX The rules and the guidelines may (and often do) change from year to\t |\nX year. You should be sure you have the current rules and guidelines\t |\nX prior to submitting entries. To obtain them, send Email to the address |\nX above and use the subject 'send rules'.\t\t\t\t |\nX\nX One may obtain winners of previous contests (1984 to date), via ftp from: |\nX\nX\thost: ftp.uu.net\t(192.48.96.9)\t\t\t\t |\nX\tuser: anonymous\nX\tpass: yourname@yourhost\nX\tdir: ~/pub/ioccc\t\t\t\t\t\t |\nX\nX As a last resort, previous winners may be obtained by sending Email\t |\nX to the above address. Please use the subject 'send YEAR winners',\t |\nX where YEAR is a single 4 digit year, a year range, or 'all'.\t |\nX\nX\nXchongo /\\cc/\\ \tchongo@toad.com\t\t\t |\nXLarry Bassel\t\t\t \tlab@sun.com\t\t\t |\nSHAR_EOF\nchmod 0444 guidelines ||\necho \"restore of guidelines failed\"\nset `wc -c guidelines`;Wc_c=$1\nif test \"$Wc_c\" != \"25592\"; then\n\techo original size 25592, current size $Wc_c\nfi\necho \"End of part 1, continue with part 2\"\nexit 0", "\nNo, instead you have stupid things like 3600 and 86400 and 31556925.9747 and\n299792.458 and 9.80665 and ...\n\nHow many cc's in a ml anyway? The metric system has its problems, just not\nas many of them.\n", "I think that's the correct spelling..\n\tI am looking for any information/supplies that will allow\ndo-it-yourselfers to take Krillean Pictures. I'm thinking\nthat education suppliers for schools might have a appartus for\nsale, but I don't know any of the companies. Any info is greatly\nappreciated.\n\tIn case you don't know, Krillean Photography, to the best of my\nknowledge, involves taking pictures of an (most of the time) organic\nobject between charged plates. The picture will show energy patterns\nor spikes around the object photographed, and depending on what type\nof object it is, the spikes or energy patterns will vary. One might\nextrapolate here and say that this proves that every object within\nthe universe (as we know it) has its own energy signature.\n\n", "I have a problem with the battery on my '83 Honda CB650 NightHawk.\nEvery week or so it is dead and I have to recharge it. I ride the bike \nevery day, the battery is new and the charging system was checked \nthoroughly and it seems fine. My suspicion is that it is draining\nsomewhere. \n\nDo you have any idea about what is causing this problem?\nPlease help since my mechanic and me are clueless!...", "Hi. I've just finished reading S414, and have several questions about\nthe Brady bills (S414 and HR1025).\n\n1. _Are_ these the current versions of the Brady bill?\n What is the status of these bills? I've heard they're \"in committee\".\n How close is that to being made law?\n\n2. S414 and HR1025 seem fairly similar. Are there any important\n differences I missed?\n\n3. S414 seems to have some serious loopholes:\n A. S414 doesn't specify an \"appeals\" process to wrongful denial during\n the waiting period, other than a civil lawsuit(?) (S414 has an appeals\n process once the required instant background check system is established,\n but not before).\n B. the police are explicitly NOT liable for mistakes in denying/approving\n using existing records (so who would I sue in \"A\" above to have an\n inaccurate record corrected?)\n C. S414 includes an exception-to-waiting-period clause for if a person\n can convince the local Chief Law-Enforcement Officer (CLEO) of an\n immediate threat to his or her life, or life of a household member.\n But S414 doesn't say exactly what is considered a \"threat\", nor does\n it place a limit on how long the CLEO takes to issue an exception\n statement.\nTrue? Have I misunderstood? Any other 'holes?\n\n4. With just S414, what's to stop a person with a \"clean\" record from\n buying guns, grinding off the serial numbers, and selling them to crooks?\n At minimum, what additional laws are needed to prevent this?\n\n 'Seems at min. a \"gun counting\" scheme would be needed\n (e.g., \"John Doe owns N guns\"). So, if S414 passes, I wouldn't be surprised\n to see legislation for stricter, harder-to-forge I.D.'s plus national gun\n registration, justified by a need to make the Brady bill work.\n\nPlease comment. I'm mainly interested in specific problems with the current\nlegislation--I don't mean to start a general discussion of the merits\nof any/all waiting-period bills ever proposed.", "Hi Folks not exactly certain if this is the best place to ask, but I am\nsearching for a summer internship in engineering. I will be graduating in early\n May with a B.S. in aerospace engineering and then pursuing my Masters this Fall\n.Does anyone know of anything that is available, I am in the process of applyi\nng to some of the larger companies (ie. MacDac, Martin Marietta, Lockheed. If a\nnyone knows of anything I would appreciate it if you could mail it to me.\n\nThanks in advance", "[...]\n[...]\n\n\nYou know, it sounds suspiciously like no fault doesn't even do what it\nwas advertised as doing---getting the lawyers out of the loop.\n\nSigh. Another naive illusion down the toilet....\n\n\n\n\n\n-----\nTommy McGuire\nmcguire@cs.utexas.edu\nmcguire@austin.ibm.com", "\n\nSo they should sue the newspaper I got it from for printing it.\nThe article didn't say anything about copyrights.\n\nLouis\n", "\n\nSorry, I don't follow your reasoning. You are proposing to punish people\n*before* they commit a crime? What justification do you have for this?", "\nUltimately it rests with personal opinion...in my opinion. :-) \n\n\nThe question doesn't make sense to me. Maybe it would be better to ask,\n\"What makes a democracy better than [for example] a totalitarian\nregim?\"", "\n\nWell, I've said that when an innocent person has been executed, this is\nobjectively a murder. However, who is at blame is another question.\nIt seems that the entire society that sanctions any sorts of executions--\nrealizing the risks--is to blame.\n\n\nYes, but there is also a probablity that you will kill someone doing\nany raondom activity. Presumably, you had not isolated yourself totally\nfrom the rest of society because of this.\n\n\nAnd I argue that our law system is a similar risk. Perhaps an innocent\nperson will be punished someday, but we work to prevent this. In fact,\nmany criminals go free as a result of our trying to prevent punishment\nof innocents.\n\n\nBut, such accidents are to be totally expected, given the numner of vehicals\non the road. Again, the blame is on society.\n\n\nYes, but the state is not at fault in such a case. The state can only do\nso much to prevent false witnesses.\n\n\nOkay, so this is what you call murder. But, the question is whether or not\nall such \"murders\" are wrong. Are you saying that all taking of human life\nis wrong, no matter what the circumstances?\n\n\nBut, this is basically how it works. Society accepts the risk that an\ninnocent person will be murdered by execution. And, every member of\nsociety shares this blame. And, most people's definitions of murder\ninclude some sort of malicious intent, which is not involved in an\nexecution, is it?\n\n\nMurder violates the golden rule. Executions do not, because by allowing\nit at all, society implicitly accepts the consequences no matter who the\ninnocent victim is.\n\n\nReading the minds of the jury would certainly tell whether or not a conviction\nwas moral or not. But, in an objective system, only the absolute truth\nmatters, and the jury system is one method to approximate such a truth. That\nis, twelve members must be convinced of a truth.\n\n\nBut then, if we read the minds of these people, we would know that the\nconviction was unfair.\n\n\nYes, while we could objectively determine the difference (if we knew all\npossible information), we can't always determine the difference in our\nflawed system. I think that our system is almost as good as possible,\nbut it still isn't objectively perfect. You see, it doesn't matter if\nwe *know* it is fair or not. Objectively, it is either fair or it is not.\n\n\nBut what we know has no effect on an objective system.\n\n\nWhy are you so sure?\n\n\nWhy is *your* reality important?\n\n\nBut, we can assume that the system is fairly decent, at least most likely.\nAnd, you realize that the correctness of our system says nothing about a\ntotally ideal and objective system.\n\n\nWell, we can have an ideal system, but the working system can not be ideal.\nWe can only hope to create a system that is as close an approximation to\nthe ideal system as possible.\n\n\nYes, we all bear the responsibility. Most people seem willing to do this.\n\n\nWe must realize the consequences of all our actions. Why do you keep\nseparating the justice system from the pack?\n\n\nI don't think our country has an objective system, but I think such an\nobjective system can exist, in theory. Without omniscience, an objective\nsystem is not possible in practice.", ": >> The death penalty was conceived as a deterrent to crime, but the legal\n: >> shenanigans that have been added (automatic appeals, lengthy court\n: >> battles, etc.) have relegated that purpose to a very small part of what\n: >> it should be. Hence the question is, do we instate the death penalty as\n: >> it was meant to be, and see if that deters crime, or do we get rid of\n: >> it entirely?\n\n I doubt the death penalty was supposed to be a \"deterrent\" to crime. If so,\nwhy doesn't every crime carry a death penalty ? That would be effictive\nwouldn't it ???\n\n The death penalty is a punishment, much like a $50 fine for speeding is\na punishment. Anyway, somebody with murder on the mind doesn't much care\nabout the consequences. I think another problem is that people dont think\nthey will get caught. If I wanted to kill another person, I wouldn't \ncare what the penalty was if I didn't think I would get caught.\n\n If it was to be strictly a deterrent, it should have been more along \nthe lines of torture.", "\nYou said everyone in the world. That means *everyone* in the world, including\nchildren that are not old enough to speak, let alone tell lies. If Jesus\nsays \"everyone\", you cannot support that by referring to a group of people\nsomewhat smaller than \"everyone\".\n--\n\"On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Leftover Turkey!\nOn the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Turkey Casserole\n that she made from Leftover Turkey.\n[days 3-4 deleted] ... Flaming Turkey Wings! ...\n -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait)", "[deletions]\n\nIf this is grounded firmly in Islam, as you claim, then you have just\nexposed Islam as the grounds for terrorism, plain and simple.\n\nWhether you like it or not, whether Rushdie acted like a total jerk or\nnot, there is no acceptable civilized basis for putting someone in fear\nof their life for words.\n\nIt simply does not matter whether his underlying motive was to find the\nworst possible way he could to insult Muslims and their beliefs, got that?\nYou do not threaten the life of someone for words - when you do, you\nquite simply admit the backruptcy of your position. If you support\nthreatening the life of someone for words, you are not yet civilized.\n\nThis is exactly where I, and many of the people I know, have to depart\nfrom respecting the religions of others. When those beliefs allow and\nencourage (by interpretation) the killing of non-physical opposition.\n\nYou, or I or anyone, are more than privledged to believe that someone,\nwhether it be Rushdie or Bush or Hussien or whover, is beyond the pale\nof civilized society and you can condemn his/her soul, refuse to allow\nany members of your association to interact with him/her, _peacably_\ndemonstrate to try to convince others to disassociate themselves from\nthe \"miscreants\", or whatever, short of physical force.\n\nBut once you physically threaten, or support physical threats, you get\nmuch closer to your earlier comparison of rape - with YOU as the rapist\nwho whines \"She asked for it, look how she was dressed\".\n\nBlaming the victim when you are unable to be civilized doesn't fly.\n\nDew", "From article <1993Apr26.110250.5243@nmt.edu>, by erickson@azure.nmt.edu (Alan Erickson):", "..\n...\n\nIt sounds like she has a problem. She has a problem opening up to her\nhusband so she is lesbian. WHAT? In a marrige, a couple is supposed\nto open up to each other. Because she didn't feel comfortable opening\nup to her husband she gets a divorce and comes to the conclusion that\nshe is lesbian. Before anyone gets maried they should make sure that\nthey would feel comfortable \"open up the deepest part of her soul to\nher husband\". \"Sex, in her mind, is only a part of the whole\nrelationship.\" Did she think it was diffrent with a man. That might\nbe her problem.", "\nYes, sadly, this is true. The primary reason, and the essence of the\ndetails that you are seeking, is that the Grahm-Rudman budget controls\nwere working. In fact, they were working so well that unless the feds\ndid something, they were going to have to start cutting pork. So Bush\nand the Democrats got together in a Budget Summit and replaced\nGrahm-Rudman with the now historic Grand Compromise in which Bush\n\"consented\" to raise taxes in exchange for certain caps on spending\nincreases.\n\nAs it turned out, the taxes killed the Reagan expansion and the caps\non spending increases were dispelled by Clinton in his first act as\nPresident (so that he could create his own new plan with more tax\nincreases).\n\nThe result is that Clinton now HOPES to reduce the deficit to a level \nABOVE where it was when Reagan left office.", "Archive-name: cryptography-faq/part10\nLast-modified: 1993/4/15\n\n\nFAQ for sci.crypt, part 10: References\n\nThis is the tenth of ten parts of the sci.crypt FAQ. The parts are\nmostly independent, but you should read the first part before the rest.\nWe don't have the time to send out missing parts by mail, so don't ask.\nNotes such as ``[KAH67]'' refer to the reference list in this part.\n\nThe sections of this FAQ are available via anonymous FTP to rtfm.mit.edu \nas /pub/usenet/news.answers/cryptography-faq/part[xx]. The Cryptography \nFAQ is posted to the newsgroups sci.crypt, sci.answers, and news.answers \nevery 21 days.\n\n\nContents\n\n* Books on history and classical methods\n* Books on modern methods\n* Survey articles\n* Reference articles\n* Journals, conference proceedings\n* Other\n* Electronic sources\n* RFCs (available from [FTPRF])\n* Related newsgroups\n\n\n* Books on history and classical methods\n\n [CF] Lambros D. Callimahos, William F. Friedman, Military Cryptanalytics.\n\t Aegean Park Press, ?.\n [DEA85] Cipher A. Deavours & Louis Kruh, Machine Cryptography and\n Modern Cryptanalysis. Artech House, 610 Washington St.,\n Dedham, MA 02026, 1985.\n [FRIE2] William F. Friedman, Solving German Codes in World War I.\n Aegean Park Press, ?.\n [GAI44] H. Gaines, Cryptanalysis, a study of ciphers and their\n solution. Dover Publications, 1944.\n [HIN00] F.H.Hinsley, et al., British Intelligence in the Second\n World War. Cambridge University Press. (vol's 1, 2, 3a, 3b\n & 4, so far). XXX Years and authors, fix XXX\n [HOD83] Andrew Hodges, Alan Turing: The Enigma. Burnett Books\n Ltd., 1983\n [KAH91] David Kahn, Seizing the Enigma. Houghton Mifflin, 1991.\n [KAH67] D. Kahn, The Codebreakers. Macmillan Publishing, 1967.\n [history] [The abridged paperback edition left out most\n technical details; the original hardcover edition is\n recommended.]\n [KOZ84] W. Kozaczuk, Enigma. University Publications of America, 1984\n [KUL76] S. Kullback, Statistical Methods in Cryptanalysis. Aegean\n Park Press, 1976.\n [SIN66] A. Sinkov, Elementary Cryptanalysis. Math. Assoc. Am. 1966.\n [WEL82] Gordon Welchman, The Hut Six Story. McGraw-Hill, 1982.\n [YARDL] Herbert O. Yardley, The American Black Chamber. Aegean Park\n Press, ?.\n\n* Books on modern methods\n\n [BEK82] H. Beker, F. Piper, Cipher Systems. Wiley, 1982.\n [BRA88] G. Brassard, Modern Cryptology: a tutorial.\n Spinger-Verlag, 1988.\n [DEN82] D. Denning, Cryptography and Data Security. Addison-Wesley\n Publishing Company, 1982.\n [KOB89] N. Koblitz, A course in number theory and cryptography.\n Springer-Verlag, 1987.\n [KON81] A. Konheim, Cryptography: a primer. Wiley, 1981.\n [MEY82] C. Meyer and S. Matyas, Cryptography: A new dimension in\n computer security. Wiley, 1982.\n [PAT87] Wayne Patterson, Mathematical Cryptology for Computer\n Scientists and Mathematicians. Rowman & Littlefield, 1987.\n [PFL89] C. Pfleeger, Security in Computing. Prentice-Hall, 1989.\n [PRI84] W. Price, D. Davies, Security for computer networks. Wiley, 1984. \n [RUE86] R. Rueppel, Design and Analysis of Stream Ciphers.\n Springer-Verlag, 1986.\n [SAL90] A. Saloma, Public-key cryptography. Springer-Verlag, 1990.\n [WEL88] D. Welsh, Codes and Cryptography. Claredon Press, 1988.\n\n* Survey articles\n\n [ANG83] D. Angluin, D. Lichtenstein, Provable Security in Crypto-\n systems: a survey. Yale University, Department of Computer\n Science, #288, 1983.\n [BET90] T. Beth, Algorithm engineering for public key algorithms.\n IEEE Selected Areas of Communication, 1(4), 458--466,\n 1990.\n [DAV83] M. Davio, J. Goethals, Elements of cryptology. in Secure\n Digital Communications, G. Longo ed., 1--57, 1983.\n [DIF79] W. Diffie, M. Hellman, Privacy and Authentication: An\n introduction to cryptography. IEEE proceedings, 67(3),\n 397--427, 1979.\n [DIF88] W. Diffie, The first ten years of public key cryptography.\n IEEE proceedings, 76(5), 560--577, 1988.\n [FEI73] H. Feistel, Cryptography and Computer Privacy. Scientific \n American, 228(5), 15--23, 1973.\n [FEI75] H. Feistel, H, W. Notz, J. Lynn Smith. Some cryptographic\n techniques for machine-to-machine data communications,\n IEEE IEEE proceedings, 63(11), 1545--1554, 1975.\n [HEL79] M. Hellman, The mathematics of public key cryptography.\n Scientific American, 130--139, 1979.\n [LAK83] S. Lakshmivarahan, Algorithms for public key\n cryptosystems. In Advances in Computers, M. Yovtis ed.,\n 22, Academic Press, 45--108, 1983.\n [LEM79] A. Lempel, Cryptology in transition, Computing Surveys,\n 11(4), 285--304, 1979.\n [MAS88] J. Massey, An introduction to contemporary cryptology, IEEE\n proceedings, 76(5), 533--549, 1988.\n [SIM91] G. Simmons (ed.), Contemporary Cryptology: the Science of\n Information Integrity. IEEE press, 1991.\n\n* Reference articles\n\n [AND83] D. Andelman, J. Reeds, On the cryptanalysis of rotor and\n substitution-permutation networks. IEEE Trans. on Inform.\n Theory, 28(4), 578--584, 1982.\n [BEN87] John Bennett, Analysis of the Encryption Algorithm Used in\n the WordPerfect Word Processing Program. Cryptologia 11(4),\n 206--210, 1987.\n [BER91] H. A. Bergen and W. J. Caelli, File Security in WordPerfect\n 5.0. Cryptologia 15(1), 57--66, January 1991.\n [BIH91] E. Biham and A. Shamir, Differential cryptanalysis of\n DES-like cryptosystems. Journal of Cryptology, vol. 4, #1,\n 3--72, 1991.\n [BI91a] E. Biham, A. Shamir, Differential cryptanalysis of Snefru,\n Khafre, REDOC-II, LOKI and LUCIFER. In Proceedings of CRYPTO\n '91, ed. by J. Feigenbaum, 156--171, 1992.\n [BOY89] J. Boyar, Inferring Sequences Produced by Pseudo-Random\n Number Generators. Journal of the ACM, 1989.\n [BRI86] E. Brickell, J. Moore, M. Purtill, Structure in the\n S-boxes of DES. In Proceedings of CRYPTO '86, A. M. Odlyzko\n ed., 3--8, 1987.\n [BRO89] L. Brown, A proposed design for an extended DES, Computer\n Security in the Computer Age. Elsevier Science Publishers\n B.V. (North Holland), IFIP, W. J. Caelli ed., 9--22, 1989.\n [BRO90] L. Brown, J. Pieprzyk, J. Seberry, LOKI - a cryptographic\n primitive for authentication and secrecy applications.\n In Proceedings of AUSTCRYPT 90, 229--236, 1990.\n [CAE90] H. Gustafson, E. Dawson, W. Caelli, Comparison of block\n ciphers. In Proceedings of AUSCRYPT '90, J. Seberry and J.\n Piepryzk eds., 208--220, 1990.\n [CAM93] K. W. Campbell, M. J. Wiener, Proof the DES is Not a Group.\n In Proceedings of CRYPTO '92, 1993.\n [ELL88] Carl M. Ellison, A Solution of the Hebern Messages. Cryptologia,\n vol. XII, #3, 144-158, Jul 1988.\n [EVE83] S. Even, O. Goldreich, DES-like functions can generate the\n alternating group. IEEE Trans. on Inform. Theory, vol. 29,\n #6, 863--865, 1983.\n [GAR91] G. Garon, R. Outerbridge, DES watch: an examination of the\n sufficiency of the Data Encryption Standard for financial\n institutions in the 1990's. Cryptologia, vol. XV, #3,\n 177--193, 1991.\n [GIL80] Gillogly, ?. Cryptologia 4(2), 1980.\n [GM82] Shafi Goldwasser, Silvio Micali, Probabilistic Encryption and\n\t How To Play Mental Poker Keeping Secret All Partial Information.\n\t Proceedings of the Fourteenth Annual ACM Symposium on Theory of\n\t Computing, 1982.\n [HUM83] D. G. N. Hunter and A. R. McKenzie, Experiments with\n Relaxation Algorithms for Breaking Simple Substitution\n Ciphers. Computer Journal 26(1), 1983.\n [KAM78] J. Kam, G. Davida, A structured design of substitution-\n permutation encryption networks. IEEE Trans. Information\n Theory, 28(10), 747--753, 1978.\n [KIN78] P. Kinnucan, Data encryption gurus: Tuchman and Meyer.\n Cryptologia, vol. II #4, 371--XXX, 1978.\n [KRU88] Kruh, ?. Cryptologia 12(4), 1988.\n [LAI90] X. Lai, J. Massey, A proposal for a new block encryption \n standard. EUROCRYPT 90, 389--404, 1990.\n [LUB88] C. Rackoff, M. Luby, How to construct psuedorandom\n permutations from psuedorandom functions. SIAM Journal of\n Computing, vol. 17, #2, 373--386, 1988.\n [MAS88] J. Massey, An introduction to contemporary cryptology.\n IEEE proceedings, 76(5), 533--549, 1988.\n [ME91a] R. Merkle, Fast software encryption functions. In Proceedings\n of CRYPTO '90, Menezes and Vanstone ed., 476--501, 1991.\n [MEY78] C. Meyer, Ciphertext/plaintext and ciphertext/key\n dependence vs. number of rounds for the Data Encryption\n Standard. AFIPS Conference proceedings, 47, 1119--1126,\n 1978.\n [NBS77] Data Encryption Standard. National Bureau of Standards,\n FIPS PUB 46, Washington, DC, January 1977.\n [REE77] J. Reeds, `Cracking' a Random Number Generator.\n Cryptologia 1(1), 20--26, 1977.\n [REE84] J. A. Reeds and P. J. Weinberger, File Security and the UNIX\n Crypt Command. AT&T Bell Laboratories Technical Journal,\n Vol. 63 #8, part 2, 1673--1684, October, 1984.\n [SHA49] C. Shannon, Communication Theory of Secrecy Systems. Bell\n System Technical Journal 28(4), 656--715, 1949.\n [SHE88] B. Kaliski, R. Rivest, A. Sherman, Is the Data Encryption\n Standard a Group. Journal of Cryptology, vol. 1, #1,\n 1--36, 1988.\n [SHI88] A. Shimizu, S. Miyaguchi, Fast data encipherment algorithm\n FEAL. EUROCRYPT '87, 267--278, 1988.\n [SOR84] A. Sorkin, LUCIFER: a cryptographic algorithm.\n Cryptologia, 8(1), 22--35, 1984.\n\t\n* Journals, conference proceedings\n\n CRYPTO\n Eurocrypt\n IEEE Transactions on Information Theory\n Cryptologia: a cryptology journal, quarterly since Jan 1977.\n Cryptologia; Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology; Terre Haute\n Indiana 47803 [general: systems, analysis, history, ...]\n Journal of Cryptology; International Association for Cryptologic\n Research; published by Springer Verlag (quarterly since\n 1988).\n The Cryptogram (Journal of the American Cryptogram Association);\n 18789 West Hickory Street; Mundelein, IL 60060; [primarily\n puzzle cryptograms of various sorts]\n Cryptosystems Journal, Published by Tony Patti, P.O. Box 188,\n Newtown PA, USA 18940-0188 or tony_s_patti@cup.portal.com.\n\t Publisher's comment: Includes complete cryptosystems with\n\t source and executable programs on diskettes. Tutorial. The\n\t typical cryptosystems supports multi-megabit keys and Galois\n\t Field arithmetic. Inexpensive hardware random number\n\t generator details.\n\n Computer and Communication Security Reviews, published by Ross Anderson.\n\t Sample issue available from various ftp sites, including\n\t black.ox.ac.uk. Editorial c/o rja14@cl.cam.ac.uk. Publisher's\n\t comment: We review all the conference proceedings in this field,\n\t including not just Crypto and Eurocrypt, but regional gatherings\n\t like Auscrypt and Chinacrypt. We also abstract over 50 journals,\n\t and cover computer security as well as cryptology, so readers can\n\t see the research trends in applications as well as theory.\n\n* Other\n\n Address of note: Aegean Park Press, P.O. Box 2837, Laguna Hills, CA\n 92654-0837. Answering machine at 714-586-8811.\n\n The ``Orange Book'' is DOD 5200.28-STD, published December 1985 as\n part of the ``rainbow book'' series. Write to Department of Defense,\n National Security Agency, ATTN: S332, 9800 Savage Road, Fort Meade, MD\n 20755-6000, and ask for the Trusted Computer System Evaluation\n Criteria. Or call 301-766-8729.\n\n [BAMFD] Bamford, The Puzzle Palace. Penguin Books, ?.\n [GOO83] I. J. Good, Good Thinking: the foundations of probability and\n its applications. University of Minnesota Press, 1983.\n [KNU81] D. E. Knuth, The Art of Computer Programming, volume 2:\n Seminumerical Algorithms. Addison-Wesley, 1981.\n [KUL68] Soloman Kullbach, Information Theory and Statistics.\n Dover, 1968.\n [YAO88] A. Yao, Computational Information Theory. In Complexity in\n Information Theory, ed. by Abu-Mostafa, 1988.\n\n* How may one obtain copies of FIPS and ANSI standards cited herein?\n\n Many textbooks on cryptography contain complete reprints of the FIPS\n standards, which are not copyrighted.\n\n The following standards may be ordered from the\n U.S. Department of Commerce, National Technical Information Service,\n Springfield, VA 22161.\n\n FIPS PUB 46-1 \"Data Encryption Standard\" (this is DES)\n FIPS PUB 74 \"Guidelines for Implementing as Using the NBS DES\"\n FIPS PUB 81 \"DES Modes of Operation\"\n FIPS PUB 113 \"Computer Data Authentication\" (using DES)\n\n The following standards may be ordered from the\n American National Standards Institute Sales Office,\n 1430 Broadway, New York, NY 10018.\n Phone 212.642.4900\n\n ANSI X3.92-1981 \"Data Encryption Algorithm\" (identical to FIPS 46-1)\n ANSI X3.106-1983 \"DEA Modes of Operation\" (identical to FIPS 113)\n\n Notes: Figure 3 in FIPS PUB 46-1 is in error, but figure 3 in X3.92-1981\n is correct. The text is correct in both publications.\n\n\n* Electronic sources\n\n Anonymous ftp:\n\n [FTPBK] ftp.uu.net:bsd-sources/usr.bin/des/\n [FTPCB] ftp.uu.net:usenet/comp.sources.unix/volume10/cbw/\n [FTPDF] ftp.funet.fi:pub/unix/security/destoo.tar.Z\n [FTPEY] ftp.psy.uq.oz.au:pub/DES/\n [FTPMD] rsa.com:?\n [FTPMR] cl-next3.cl.msu.edu:pub/crypt/newdes.tar.Z\n [FTPOB] ftp.3com.com:Orange-book\n [FTPPF] prep.ai.mit.edu:pub/lpf/\n [FTPPK] ucsd.edu:hamradio/packet/tcpip/crypto/des.tar.Z\n [FTPRF] nic.merit.edu:documents/rfc/\n [FTPSF] beta.xerox.com:pub/hash/\n [FTPSO] chalmers.se:pub/des/des.1.0.tar.Z\n [FTPUF] ftp.uu.net:usenet/comp.sources.unix/volume28/ufc-crypt/\n [FTPWP] garbo.uwasa.fi:pc/util/wppass2.zip\n\n* RFCs (available from [FTPRF])\n\n\n1424 Kaliski, B. Privacy Enhancement for Internet Electronic Mail: Part IV:\n Key Certification and Related Services. 1993 February; 9 p. (Format:\n TXT=17538 bytes)\n\n1423 Balenson, D. Privacy Enhancement for Internet Electronic Mail: Part\n III: Algorithms, Modes, and Identifiers. 1993 February; 14 p. (Format:\n TXT=33278 bytes) (Obsoletes RFC 1115)\n\n1422 Kent, S. Privacy Enhancement for Internet Electronic Mail: Part II:\n Certificate-Based Key Management. 1993 February; 32 p. (Format:\n TXT=86086 bytes) (Obsoletes RFC 1114)\n\n1421 Linn, J. Privacy Enhancement for Internet Electronic Mail: Part I:\n Message Encryption and Authentication Procedures. 1993 February; 42 p.\n (Format: TXT=103895 bytes) (Obsoletes RFC 1113)\n\n\n* Related newsgroups\n\n There are other newsgroups which a sci.crypt reader might want also to\n read. Some have their own FAQ as well.", " >politicians as deadly tax weapons needing to be confiscated!) If they are", "\nIs it? As far as I know, tear gas, especially in large concentrations,\nis very dangerous (even toxic) for small children. This makes the\nFBI's supposedconcern for the safety of the children seem rather \nhypocritical.", "I'd like to conduct a small survey relating to Americans' views on economics and on Japan.\nThe survey consists of just two questions. I ask that only Americans respond; I've posted\nit worldwide, however, because I think others will be interested in the results. I'll\ntabulate the results and post them with some commentary. Please respond by email to\n\"borden@m5.harvard.edu\". Here are the questions:\n\n1) As an American, would you prefer that in a given year, a) our economy grows by one\n percent, and Japan's economy also grows by one percent, or b) our economy grows by\n two percent while Japan's economy grows by three percent?\n\n2) On what newsgroup did you read this survey?\n\nThank you for your participation.", "[reply to frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer)]\n \n \n \nIf the Good is undefined (undefinable?) but you require of everyone that\nthey know innately what is right, you are back to subjectivism.\n \n \nDitto here. An evaluative statement implies a value judgement on the\npart of the person making it.\n \n \nPretty perceptive, that Prof. Flew.\n \n \n \nPlease explain how this helps. I don't see your argument.\n \n \n \nThis makes no sense either. Flew is arguing that this is where the\nobjectivist winds up, not the subjectivist. Furthermore, the nihilists\nbelieved in nothing *except* science, materialism, revolution, and the\nPeople.\n \n \n \nAnd also not the position of the subjectivist, as has been pointed out\nto you already by others. Ditch the strawman, already, and see my reply\nto Mike Cobb's root message in the thread Societal Basis for Morality.", "#>In article <1993Apr20.070156.26910@abo.fi> MANDTBACKA@FINABO.ABO.FI\n#\n#># Ah, that old chestnut, your claim that moral objectivism ==\n#>#scientific objectivism. I don't agree with it; now try proving, through\n#>#some objective moral test, that my disagreeing is incorrect. =)\n#> \n#> Your claim, which you have deleted now was \"not universal => not objective\".\n#\n# I've deleted it now, in the interest of brevity. Go back a step\n#and you'll see it was still in your post. Yes, that was my claim; if you\n#can refute it, then please do so.\n\nFirstly, an apology. You hadn't deleted your claim, and I was mistaken in\nsaying you had. Sorry for any offence caused.\n\nSecondly, how can I refute your definition? I can only point up its\nlogical implications, and say that they seem to contradict the usage\nof the word \"objective\" in other areas. Indeed, by your definition, an\nobjective x is an oxymoron, for all x. I have no quibble with that\nbelief, other than that it is useless, and that \"objective\" is a perfectly\ngood word.\n\n#> So, what *is* objective? Not the age of the universe, anyway, as I show\n#> above.\n#\n# How many ages can the universe have, and still be internally self-\n#consistent? I'd be amazed if it was more than one. How many different\n#moral systems can different members of society have - indeed, single\n#individuals, in some cases - and humanity still stick together?\n\nBegging the question. People can have many opinions about the age\nof the universe and humanity can still stick together. You are\nsaying that the universe has a _real_ age, independent of my beliefs about\nit. Why?\n\n# The age of the universe, like most scientific facts, can be\n#emirically verified through means that'll give the same result no matter\n#who performs the testing (albeit there are error bars that may be on the\n#largish side...). \n\nThis assumes that the universe has a real age, or any kind of reality\nwhich doesn't depend on what we think. Why should an extreme Biblical\nCreationist give a rat's ass about the means of which you speak?\n\n#I've heard of no way to verify morality in a\n#consistent way, much less compute the errors of the measurement; care to\n#enlighten me?\n\nThe same is true of pain, but painkillers exist, and can be predicted\nto work with some accuracy better than a random guess. I wrote\nelsewhere that morality should be hypotheses about observed value.\nIf a moral system makes a prediction \"It will be better if...\",\nthat can be tested, and is falsifiable in the same way as a prediction\n\"This drug will relieve pain...\"\n\n# People's *ideas* about the age of object X are *not* objective;\n#you can have any idea you like, and I can't stop you. Universae and\n#their ages is another ballgame; they are what they are, and if you\n#dislike some detail of them, that's a problem with your *opinion* of\n#them. \n\nSure. Assume an objective reality, and you get statements like this.\n\n#I claim that morality is an opinion of ours, and as such\n#subjective and individual. If I'm wrong, then some more-or-less\n#objectively \"real\" thing exists, which you label \"objective morality\";\n#can you back up this positive claim of existence?\n\nCan you back up your positive claim above? No. That's because it's an\nassumption. I make the same assumption about values, on the basis\nthat there is no logical difference between the two, and the empirical\nbasis of the two is precisely the same.\n\n#># Point: Morals are, in essence, personal opinions. Usually\n#>#(ideally) well-founded, motivated such, but nonetheless personal. The\n#>#fact that a real large lot of people agree on some moral question,\n#>#sometimes even for the same reason, does not make morals objective; it\n#>#makes humans somewhat alike in their opinions on that moral question,\n#>#which can be good for the evolution of a social species.\n#> \n#> And if a \"real large lot\" (nice phrase) of people agree that there is a \n#> football on a desk, I'm supposed to see a logical difference between the two? \n#> Perhaps you can explain the difference to me, since you seem to see it\n#> so clearly.\n#\n# Take a look on the desk - i.e., perform a test. If(football) THEN\n#(accept theory) ELSE DO (Tell people they're hallucinating).\n#\n# Now take a look at morality. See anything? If so, please inform me\n#which way to look, and WHY to look that particular way, as opposed to\n#some other. Get my drift?\n\nNo. Just look. Are you claiming never to know what good means?\n\n#># *Science* is a whole other matter altogether.\n#> \n#> Says you. Prove that those who disagree are wrong?\n#\n# That's a simple(?) matter of proving the track record of the\n#scientific method.\n\nI think it's great, and should be applied to values. I may be completely\nwrong, but that's what I conclude as a result of quite an amount of\nthought.\n", ": Are the Serbs doing the work of God? Hmm...\n\n: I've been wondering if anyone would ever ask the question,\n\n: Are the governments of the United States and Europe not moving\n: to end the ethnic cleansing by the Serbs because the targets are\n: muslims?\n\n: Can/Does God use those who are not following him to accomplish\n: tasks for him? Esp those tasks that are punative?\n\n: James Sledd\n: no cute sig.... but I'm working on it.\n\nAre you suggesting that God supports genocide?\nPerhaps the Germans were \"punishing\" Jews on God's behalf?\n\nAny God who works that way is indescribably evil, and unworthy of\nmy worship or faith.", "\nThe average amerikan today seems to think that the government should be\nable to eavesdrop on everyone (else). Opinion polls show that most\npeople belive the Bill of Rights to grant too much freedom to people,\nwhen it is not identified as such (BTW, if anyone knows of a cite for that,\nI'd love to have it). Not only does this mean that these people are \nwilling to give up everyone (else's) rights, they don't even know what \nthe Bill of Rights actually says.\n\nHow can we show the average person (not the average USENET reader) that\npeople are actually entitiled to these rights? So many people don't\ncare if the government is taking more and more control of us all, a little \nat a time. ", "\n\n\n\nYou have done no such thing.\n\n\n\nAn Islamic bank is a bank which operates according to the rules\nof Islam in regard to banking. This is done explicitly by the\nbank. This was not the case with BCCI.\n\n\nThis is crap. BCCI was motivated by the same motives as other\ninternational banks, with perhaps an emphasis on dealing with\noutlaws and the intelligence services of various governments.\n\n\nBack to childish propaganda again. You really ought to get a life\nrather than wasting bandwith on such empty typing. There are thousands\nof Islamic banks operating throughout the world which no-one ever hears\nabout. If you want to talk about corrupted banks we can talk about\nall the people who've been robbed by American banks. \n", "I've been asked to supply more specific directions\nfor automated fetching of the source and documentation\nfor \"agrep,\" the powerful similarity pattern matching tool.\n\nIt is at\n\ncs.arizona.edu\n192.12.69.5\n\nin directory\n\n/agrep/README\n/agrep/agrep-2.04.tar.Z\n/agrep/agrep.ps.1.Z\n/agrep/agrep.ps.2.Z\n\n(The .ps suffixed files are the optional postscript docs; \na reasonably good research report with benchmarks is\nincluded.)\n\nNote for Macintosh MPW users: after a few hours of drudgery,\nI ported the tool to MPW 3.2.3 running under System 7.1.\nIf you would like me to e-mail a binhexed copy of the tool\nsuitable for dropping in to your MPW/tools folder, please write...\n\nOther than the more purely cryptographic uses for the tool\nI've been having lots of fun picking up the \"lost\"\nreferences to things I'm interested in. For example,\nstarting a search like:\n\nagrep -1 -i 'Burning Chrome' cyberpunkspool \n\nimmediately finds references like 'burning crome' that I\nhave always missed before. See how many times John\nGilmore's name is mentioned in the CUD archives\n(and how often misspelled). How about _your_ name?\n\nAs usual, I will e-mail the uuencoded tar.Z upon request\nif you cannot do anonymous FTP.\n\n", "\n\nThat's right. Humans have gone somewhat beyond this though. Perhaps\nour goal is one of self-actualization.\n\n\nNow you are letting an omniscient being give information to me. This\nwas not part of the original premise.\n\n\nWhich type of morality are you talking about? In a natural sense, it\nis not at all immoral to harm another species (as long as it doesn't\nadversely affect your own, I guess).", "\nAgreed. \n\n\nIt is a failure of libertarianism if the ideology does not provide any\nreasonable way to restrain such actions other than utopian dreams. Just\nas Marxism \"fails\" to specify how pure communism is to be achieved and\nthe state is to \"wither away,\" libertarians frequently fail to show how\nweakening the power of the state will result in improvement in the human\ncondition.\n\n\nThis is a strawman argument and fails on several grounds. In this case,\n\"limited\" and \"big\" government are not defined. I would point out that\nLebanon, Somalia, and the former Yugoslavia are by some definitions nations\nwith \"limited\" government, while the US, Canada, and nations in Western \nEurope (where \"people would rather live\") are often pointed out as \nnations with \"big government\" from a libertarian point of view. \n\nThe argument is not between those who want \"limited\" government and those\nwho want \"unlimited\" government. It is between those who believe\ngovernment regulation in a capitalist economy serves worthwhile ends and\nthose who believe such regulation is neither desirable on empirical \ngrounds nor justifiable on ideological grounds.\n\njsh", "We really should try to be as understanding as we can for Brad, because it\nappears killing is all he knows.", "First, I would like to say how much I appreciate having so literate and\nerudite an individual as Mr. Rutledge with whom to discuss this topic.\nFrankly, most anti-RKBA posters refuse even to approach the topic of\nthe original understanding of the Bill of Rights as detailed in the\nwritings of the era. This is most refreshing.\n\nSecond, I must apologize for leaving the discussion for several days.\nMy brigade's quarterly drill was this weekend and I needed to attend\nto several matters pertaining to the State Militia.\n\nSome people seem to feel that the concept of the Militia is an anachro-\nnism that is out of place in the 20th century. I'm not sure the Swiss\nwould agree and I think perhaps a discussion of how the Militia, both\norganized and unorganized, fits into the defense plans of my State,\nMississippi. Please do not assume that this describes something peculiar\nto one southern state. For instance, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts\nhas a well organized Militia which, members report, maintains stocks\nof both riot guns and machine guns. The laws of other States will vary\nbut are probably similar.\n\nTitle 35 of Mississippi Code defines our Militia as \"all able-bodied\ncitizens of the state between the ages of seventeen (17) and sixty-\ntwo (62) years...\". The Militia is divided into 3 classes: The National\nGuard, the Mississippi State Guard and the unorganized Militia. The\nNational Guard is a strange sort of fish from a Constitutional perspective.\nIt tries to be both State Militia and Federal Reserve. The discussion\nof this \"para-constitutional\" arrangement is quite interesting in itself\nbut somewhat beyond the scope of this discussion. Suffice it that, at this\ndate, the National Guard has ceased to have any Constitutional standing\nas anything but a Federal reserve force.\n\nMississippi, and most other States, maintains a purely State organized\nMilitia. In Mississippi this is called The State Guard. In other \nStates it may be called something else. The State Guard exists as\na cadre or training corps made up of mostly experienced officers and\nsenior NCOs who serve as volunteers without compensation. We drill\non a monthly basis at the company and battalion level, brigade once\na quarter and have an annual drill of the whole organization. Our\nState-authorized cadre strength is 694. This is a skeleton of an\norganization without any flesh. The muscle and sinew when needed will\ncome from the unorganized Militia.\n\nIn time of invasion, insurrection or calamity the Governor can order\nthe activation of the State Guard. When this takes place a call will\nfirst be made for volunteers to fill the organization out to either\nits contingency strength of 2194 or full strength of 4910. In the\nevent that a sufficient number of people fail to volunteer, the law\nprovides detailed instructions for the conducting of a draft of the\nunorganized Militia. The size of the State Guard is not specified by\nlaw, but rather by executive order. At one time, the organized Militia\nof Mississippi consisted of 68 regiments. Needless to say, the State\ndoes not have armories brimming with weapons with which to equip such\na force. The historical precedent for arming such a force is by use\nof mostly the private arms of the Militiamen. \n\nIt is my hope that demonstrates that State Militias are far from being\nthe long dead anachronisms that some may wish to claim.\n\n\nRegarding Hamilton: If you take Hamilton's opinion as being the sole\nrepresentative of the opinions of the Founding Fathers, you will have\nchosen a highly skewed sample set. Hamilton was on the extreme Federalist\nend of the political spectrum. Others, such as Coxe and Henry, can\nbe chosen to represent the other end. Many contemporaries felt that\nthe idea of having a standing Army of any sort or even a select Militia\nor \"train bands\" were contrary to the egalitarian nature of the govern-\nment they were striving to perfect. The compromise reached was to\nprovide for a small Army, which had to be refinanced every two years,\nand iron-clad protection for the Militia, which was to remain ever,\n\"terrible and irresistible\".\n\nThese protections included: State control, not Federal; limitation\nof Federal utilization of the Militia (i.e. execute Laws, suppress\nInsurrections and repel Invasions), and the Right to Keep and Bear\nArms to prevent what the British had tried to do at Lexington.\nThese limitations eventually proved so onerous to the Federal Govern-\nment that they were skirted by the creation of the National Guard.\n\nThe National Guard was created for one very simple reason: the \nConstitutional Militia was had proved too unreliable for fighting\nwars of imperial expansion. (e.g. Spanish-American War). The\nConstitution provided that the Militia could only be employed by\nthe Federal government in very limited purposes. As far back as the\nWar of 1812, Militia units had refused to leave United States\nterritory to attack the enemy. Further, there was no Constitutional\nauthorization for any conscription of anyone into the Federal\nMilitary and Militiamen were particularly protected. In all wars until\nWW-I every American who left the country under arms was a volunteer.\nWhen the National Guard acts of 1903-1916 required that each new\nmember also enlist as a reservest in the Army, existing soldiers were\n\"grandfathered\". At least one of these \"grandfathered\" individuals\nrefused to go to France in 1918 and his refusal was upheld by the\nFederal Courts.\n\nMr. Rutledge has stated that the Second Amendment applies only to\nmembers of a \"well organized\" militia. However, the pre-Constitutional\nhistory of the American Militia shows relatively few periods when\nThe Militia came close to meeting either Messrs. Rutledge or Hamilton's\ndefinition of \"well organized\". In the period of peace between the\nFrench & Indian War and The Revolution many companies simply stopped\ndrilling and had to be reconstituted just prior to The Revolution.\nPerhaps Mr. Rutledge would care to argue that those of my ancestors\nwho answered the Lexington alarm had forfeited their rights because\ntheir units didn't drill for a few years in the 1760s. I would not\nbe so bold.\n\nAgain, I wish to repeat. The National Guard, for all its merits, is\nnot the Militia described by the Constitution nor by Mr. Hamilton\nnor by Mr. Henry nor by Mr. Coxe. The fact that the Federal Government\nand many States are delinquent in their attentions to and organizing\nof their Constitutional Militias diminishes neither their\nresponsibilities nor the rights of the Militia as detailed in the\nConstitution.\n \nMisunderstanding of the nature and purpose of the Militia is but one\nerror that has crept into modern readings of the Constitution. The\nConstitution prohibits States from keeping \"Troops or Ships of War\nin time of Peace\". I have heard some insist this prevents States from\nmaintaining a Militia, but this comes about because people today do not\nunderstand the meanings of the words in their 18th century usage.\nToday we call any large vessel a \"ship\" but in the 18th century the word\ndescribed a particular kind of vessel. A \"ship\" is a large vessel with\nthree or more masts each carrying square rigged sails. A \"brig\" has two\nmasts. In the contemporary usage the States were prohibited only from keeping\nthe largest warships of the day, those capable of global operations. Today's\nequivalent might be a prohibition on the States' keeping nuclear missiles.\n\"Troops\" at this time meant a full-time professional military organization.\nAny study of contemporaneous writings will bear this out. \n\nIn at least one respect, I am in agreement with Mr. Rutledge; being\npersonally involved in the maintenance and advancement of The Militia\nas a viable means of defense for a modern society, I am frequently\nboth bemused and saddened when friends and associates wax poetic on\ntheir place in the unorganized Militia and become strangely silent or\nscarce when invited to attend a drill of their State's Militia.", "\nWhy retract your accusation that he's a liar? If Omran retracts his \"verbal\ndiarrohea\" doesn't that only prove the liar he *really* is? A retraction\nwould be pointless! Giving this guy the opportunity to \"save face\" after\nuttering such bullshit would just encourage him to do it again! I must say\nthat your style is very impressive, Mark. Keep it up!\n\n- Mike\n", ": \n: >It's quite possible that a buyer and seller will both\n: >trust some third party more than either trust the other, and\n: >will desire the moderation of that third party. But if a random\n: >third party assumes the right to interfere in a transaction contarary\n: >to the wishes of the primary participants, odds are pretty good the\n: >results will be detrimental.\n: \n: So we try to ensure that the process of deciding whether to introduce\n: third parties isn't random. As Steve said above, there are examples\n: where third parties *are* less ignorant or corrupt than the two\n: primary parties; should this knowledge not be able to help?\n: \nA third party should be able to use persuasion to sway the transaction.\nIf, on the other hand, we condone the use of force or threat of violence \nby the third party, then we are in trouble. A fourth party could say \nthat it knows better than parties 1, 2, and 3. And a fifth party... and \nso on. Who wins? The one that can use the force or threat of force the\nbest. In other words \"Might makes right.\" Let's abandon such\naggressive tactics and work from voluntary cooperation and respect from \nothers. That is what libertarians want.", "\nIt's always a two-way street. God gave her the grace to avoid sin,\nthus when she was visited by Gabriel, she gave her fiat, her total\nacceptance of God's will. This fiat summarizes why Catholics regard \nher as the highest of all humans, that God chose her and that she\naccepted. Knowing this in advance, we extrapolate that she was\nneither stained by nor subject to original sin.\n\nGod did create us all miraculously free to choose or not choose to sin.\n\"Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof and the grace of God to\ncommand it.\" This amount of grace was precisely determined by God\nto be the amount required to do what God asked of her. The grace\ngiven to each of us is also enough, but we do not always choose\nto accept it. We also believe Jesus was fully human and never\nsinned. \n\nGod could have created a much better person than myself, one who\nalways chose the right thing, yet he created me instead, despite\nmy flaws. He proves he loves me as I am, continually drawing me\ntowards perfection. For whatever purpose he has for me, he has\nconfidence that I will accomplish it. If I ask God to repeat his\nmiraculous creation of the mother of his son, where will that leave me?", ":An 'edu'er not towing the \"party\" line, thank you!\n:\n:Jim\n\nYou're welcome! ;) Actually, I'm probably something of an outcast, because\nI've committed the ultimate college-student heresy: I'm not a liberal.\n(This is NOT liberal-bashing.)\n\n\nMike", "I would say only to the extent that the Roman Catholic Church\nneither approves nor disapproves of capital punishment, as\nconfirmed in the recent catechism, though there are many RCs\nwho were rather surprised and upset that capital punishment was\nnot explicitly condemned.\n\nFor myself, as a Catholic, I see my own opposition to capital\npunishment as much the same as my opposition to abortion - a\nreverence for life. Here in the UK, the anti-abortion case is\noften let down by the explicit link which those on the\npolitical left make with anti-abortionists and\npro-executionists. There is a tendency to condemn people who\nhold both views as hypocrites. I feel that if there were many\nmore anti-abortionists who were also vocal in their opposition\nto capital punishment on a pro-life line, it would end this\nkneejerk association of anti-abortion as a right-wing thing,\nand get many to think seriously about the issue (there are\nplenty who are pro-abortion equally for a kneejerk left-wing\nreason).\n\nI do not think your biblical quote can automatically be taken\nas support for capital punishment. I take it that as a Roman\nCatholic you are opposed to abortion, and would still onsider\nit wrong, and something to be objected to even if legalised by\n\"authority\".", "\nI may be misreading you here. Are you saying the American Revolution \nwasn't a good idea because it was bad odds?\n\nI kind of doubt that any revolution, armed or otherwise, was ever started \nwithout vast amounts of failed \"working within a system\". A good sign of \na system being not worth preserving would probably be that very inability \nto work within it productively.", "\n\n\nThe existence of the weapon in and of itself (and this is also\ntrue for biologics and chemical weapons, but for slightly different\nreasons) poses a threat to living critters. Can you say \"neutron\nand other radiation flux due to radioactive decay\", boys and girls?", "Could y'all PLEASE stop posting this stuff to tx.general. tx.politics\nis sufficient and is where this stuff belongs. Thanks.\n\n\tCathy", "\n\n\n\n\nWhat's the difference, in practice?\n\nIt amounts to your saying, it's disgusting but should be legal,\n\n***or***\n\nsomeone else saying, let's allow the parties involved to decide what is\ndisgusting.\n\nOr, if you're like me, you think that it ISN'T a coercive law, because\nsome children can't make informed consent.\n\nBrian", "\nAre you aware you can make a grenade with gunpower and metal water pipes?\nMaybe we should outlaw hardware stores and ammo reloading.\n\nAre you aware that you can make a firebomb with gasoline? etc.\n", "\n\n\nBut neither of them claimed to have experimental evidence that proved \nthem right. In a similar vein, there is as yet no experimental evidence\nfor supersymmetric particles; so some physicists believe in them, and\nsome don't -- but all agree that either there is an objectively true\nanswer to the question.\n\n--\nMark Pundurs", "THE WHITE HOUSE\n\n Office of the Press Secretary\n___________________________________________________________________\nFor Immediate Release April 23, 1993\n\n\n\n PRESS BRIEFING\n BY DEE DEE MYERS\n\n\n The Briefing Room\n\n\n10:35 A.M. EDT\n\t \n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: At 1:00 p.m., we're having a press \nconference, Bill, in the East Room. And then Saturday the President \nwill leave here at roughly 8:00 a.m. and fly down to Jamestown. He \nwill spend the day there, overnight at Camp David. \n\t \n\t On Sunday, it's unclear exactly what time he'll leave \nCamp David and fly to Boston. He'll leave from Hagerstown. The press \nplane will leave from Washington. \n\t \n\t He will meet with some --\n\t \n\t Q\t What kind of a plane is that he's taking?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: That he's taking? He'll probably take a C-\n20.\n\t \n\t Q\t From Hagerstown?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: From Hagerstown. Air Force One doesn't fly \nout of Hagerstown, apparently.\n\t \n\t Q\t How will the pool travel?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: The pool will have to meet him ahead of \ntime. So I guess the pool will travel with the press plane and wait \nfor him at the airport. There is currently no provision -- and I'll \ndouble-check, because there's currently no provision -- I think \nthat's standard operating practice.\n\t \n\t Q\t The pool is not going to meet him and watch him get \non the plane at Hagerstown?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I don't believe so.\n\t \n\t Q\t What time does he have to be in Boston?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: He's going to meet there with a group of \ncitizens, mostly people who supported us during the campaign, at \naround 1:30 p.m. We're still working out the final times.\n\t \n\t Q\t At the airport?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: No, it will be at the Boston Harbor Hotel. \n\t And then he will also meet with some -- a youth group \nthat authored something called Project 21. The speech to the \npublishers is actually at 3:15 p.m. It will be followed by Q&A. And \nthen after the speech and Q&A, he'll attend a reception with the \npublishers, and then return to Washington from Boston. And that's it \nfor the weekend.\n\t \n\t Q\t Has the President seen the report from -- or the \nletter, communication from the foreign service officers; also, \nobviously, the communication from Madeleine Albright? And what is \nhis reaction to their call on him?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Well, obviously, the letter was written to \nSecretary Christopher. I believe Secretary Christopher received the \nletter on Saturday. He reviewed it and met with the authors on \nMonday to discuss their views. He believes it's an important part of \nthe policy-making process and is taking their views into account as \nwe go forward in the development of the Bosnia policy.\n\t \n\t Q\t What is the President's reaction?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: The President hasn't seen the letter. It \nwas something that was directed towards Secretary Christopher. In \nterms of -- he hasn't seen specifically the letter, but in terms of \ntheir concerns generally, what the President has said is that there \nare a lot of options on the table now, including ones that weren't \nthere before. And I think he's, as is everybody, gravely concerned \nabout the situation in Bosnia.\n\t \n\t Q\t Is he influenced by that? I mean, how does he feel \nabout the fact that all of the specialists in that area -- those desk \nofficers --\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Many of the specialists in that area -- I \nthink that that is clearly part of the process. It's something -- \ntheir views will clearly be considered. I think Secretary \nChristopher met with the group immediately to discuss their views. I \nthink he believes that there ought to be room for opinions and that \nthose opinions ought to be considered, particularly from people who \nwork closely on the issues.\n\t \n\t Q\t What do you mean, there are options on the table \nthat weren't there before?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I think the President said last week that \nthere were options, such as lifting the arms embargo to the Bosnian \nMuslims, that had been previously off the table that are now being \nconsidered.\n\t \n\t Q\t Dee Dee, in terms of those options, Madeleine \nAlbright is saying that potentially there could be unilateral action \nby the U.S. if the Europeans did not go along. Is that on the table?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Well, I can't discuss anything that would -- \nany conversations that would have happened between Ambassador \nAlbright and the President. But I think the President has said he \nwould certainly -- is working with our European allies. He's had a \nnumber of conversations with European leaders and is trying to build \nsome consensus there. \n\t \n\t Q\t Will he reach a decision -- will he have anything \nspecific to say today?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: No. I mean, in term of there will be no new \nannouncement of policy today.\n\t \n\t Q\t Does your statement mean he has ruled out \nunilateral action?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: He's continuing to consult with our allies \nat this point. He has said -- I think he's been fairly clear about \nit, that the he believes that the U.S. needs to act in concert with \nits allies on this.\n\t \n\t Q\t On that point, does he believe that the U.S., \nthough, does have built-in authority from the United Nations already \nto take unilateral action?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Well, I think the U.N. Resolution 770 makes \nit clear that you can act unilaterally in support of any humanitarian \nrelief effort. I think the broader point is that anything we do, any \noptions that we decide to pursue we will make sure that it is \nconsistent with U.N. authority, and if it's not, we'll work with our \nallies to make sure that we get it.\n\t \n\t Q\t Dee Dee, then how does the White House someone as \ndistinguished as Elie Wiesel, who says that not enough is being done \nto stop the atrocities going on in Bosnia?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I think that that's why we're considering \nadditional options. I think that Mr. Wiesel's comments yesterday \nwere quite compelling. The situation in Bosnia is tragic. The \nPresident is very concerned about it. He has -- I think President \nClinton has worked very hard to take further actions to continue to \nisolate Serbia in the world community. Clearly, we're considering \nother options because the President is concerned that perhaps it's \nnot enough.\n\t \n\t Q\t In terms of what you were just talking about, it \nsounds like Resolution 770 justifies unilateral action by the U.S. to \nprotect humanitarian --\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I don't think it -- I wouldn't use the word \njustify. It permits unilateral action by any country in protecting \nthe delivery of humanitarian relief. But I think that's just an \nexplanation of the resolution. I think any action that we take will \nbe consistent with U.N. resolutions or we'll work with our allies to \nmake sure that it is permissible or we'll get further action.\n\t \n\t Q\t The President and other officials have ruled out \nunilateral U.S. action in Bosnia in the past. You're declining to do \nthat this morning.\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: No, I said the President has said repeatedly \nthat he wants to act in concert with our allies on this.\n\t \n\t Q\t That doesn't mean that he won't act alone, which \nhas been said before explicitly.\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I don't mean to imply a change in policy. \nThe President has said all along that he wants to act in concert with \nour allies on this.\n\t \n\t Q\t One other little question. Did he know about this \nletter from the foreign service officers before it hit the papers?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I don't believe so. Secretary Christopher \n-- they may have had a private conversation about it. The President \nhas not seen it.\n\t \n\t Q\t They met on Monday, right? Christopher met --\nsurely, he must have brought that up --\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Again, they may have talked privately about \nit, but --\n\t \n\t Q\t Dee Dee, what you're saying is that the Albright \nrecommendation has been rejected, is that correct?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: No, I didn't say that at all. I said I \nwon't -- I said I wouldn't comment on any conversations or \ncommunications.\n\t \n\t Q\t She's advocating unilateral action and you're \nsaying, in effect, that we will not take unilateral action.\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I am not confirming anything that Madeleine \nAlbright may or may not have recommended.\n\t \n\t Q\t Given the sometimes delicate, complicated and \nfrustrating nature of negotiations with the allies on this issue, \ndoes the President find this kind of letter from 12 foreign service \nofficers of the State Department helpful to that process, hurtful to \nthat?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I think that their views are obviously being \nconsidered. The Secretary received that memo on Saturday and two \ndays later he met with them in order to have a more thorough airing \nof their views, of the basis for their views, to discuss in greater \ndetail the options that they had presented in the letter.\n\t \n\t Q\t Doesn't it put some kind of pressure on --\nadditional pressure on him now from within his own administration to \nact regardless of what the allies may or may not do?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I think clearly there's a broad policy \nreview underway now. And the President and his advisors are \nconsidering a number of options, including some of those outlined in \nthe letter from the folks over at the State Department. Now, no \ndecisions have been made on that yet, but I think that there is a \nthrough review underway, and that their opinions are being very \nseriously considered.\n\t \n\t Q\t If I can just follow up, I guess what I'm looking \nfor is what was his reaction to this letter? Did he say, good, this \nbolsters my position? Or did he say, damn, this is just what I don't \nneed right now?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I think he said this helps contribute \nsubstantively to the debate. It's important that all views be \nconsidered and aired thoroughly, that before he makes a decision he \nwants to have the best possible advice and information possible, and \nthis, I think in many ways, furthers that goal.\n\t \n\t Q\t So internal advice to a Cabinet official or the \nPresident -- it's all open now, and you wouldn't take any umbrage or \nsay that they were out of line?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I think that the fact that Secretary \nChristopher met with them to discuss their views and make sure they \nhad an opportunity to have a more complete conversation about it is \nconclusive evidence that their views are welcome.\n\t \n\t Q\t Does the policy review include what Madeleine \nAlbright has suggested, and what Joe Biden and others have suggested, \nwhich is that the previous U.N. resolutions authorize unilateral \naction -- military action -- for the delivery of humanitarian --\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I think all options are on the table.\n\t \n\t Q\t The unilateral option is on the table?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I think all options are on the table.\n\t \n\t Q\t We've had two different --\n\t \n\t Q\t Isn't that a change, Dee Dee?\n\t \n\t Q\t That would be a change of policy.\n\t \n\t Q\t Particularly if it includes ground troops, which \nhas been specifically ruled out.\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I think the President has been -- well, no. \nI don't -- that is not --\n\t \n\t Q\t Are you talking about all options?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: All options -- I think the President has \nbeen fairly clear about that. So let me just review again what he \nhas said. He has said that -- the President has said all options are \non the table, with the exception of the introduction of ground \ntroops, which he has never suggested. He has ruled that out from the \nbeginning.\n\t \n\t Q\t Hasn't he ruled out unilateral action of any sort?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: He has said that he doesn't believe the U.S. \ncan solve the problems in the former Yugoslavia by itself. I think \nthat there are a number of very complicated options on the table \nright now. I don't think that -- again, I don't want to comment on \nspecific options that are being considered other than in the broad \ncategories that we've already said -- things like lifting the arms \nembargo against the Bosnian Muslims, things that I think we've talked \nabout in broad terms. This is a very complicated situation. The \noptions being presented and considered are very complicated.\n\t \n\t Q\t Air strikes on the table?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Again, I think that's been fairly clearly \npointed out that that's something that's being discussed.\n\t \n\t Q\t Dee Dee, are ground troops on the -- \n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: No, ground troops are not being considered.\n\t \n\t Q\t You said there was not going to be -- you said you \nwere not announcing a change of policy. Then you said everything is \non the table. We're confused. Are unilateral actions on the table?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: All I can tell you is what the President has \nsaid -- that he doesn't believe -- that he wants to act in concert \nwith the allies on this.\n\t \n\t Q\t Wants to, but he's willing to -- I mean, if they \ndon't go along --\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: He's continuing to consult with our allies \non this. He's continuing to have discussions. He's continuing to \npress them for further action. And I think that's clear. The \nconversation is ongoing. We're going to continue to work with them \nto find the best possible solution and next step on this.\n\t \n\t Q\t Dee Dee, the allies have taken the position that to \nconduct any kind of air strikes in Bosnia would have the opposite \neffect of ensuring the delivery of humanitarian aid; that they feel \nthat their troops on the ground monitoring the delivery of that aid \nwould become vulnerable and the Bosnians --\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I'm not sure that's the consistent -- I \nmean, I'm not sure who you're referring to.\n\t \n\t Q\t The British and the French.\n\t \n\t Q\t Yes, the British and French. They've taken the \nposition that the delivery of humanitarian aid would be jeopardized \nby any kind of air strikes against the Bosnian military. Does the \nU.S. believe differently from that?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: The President has had conversations with \nboth Mitterrand and Major, as you know. I think that there is a \nthorough review of policy going on in those countries as well. And I \ndon't want to comment on the nature of the President's discussions \nother than to say that he's continuing to consult with our allies as \nwe move forward and he's continuing to press them for further action. \nAnd I think that process is ongoing.\n\t \n\t Q\t the other day voted against any military \nintervention yesterday. Does the President regard that as the end of \nthe line or does he does still hold out some possibility of \nunilateral action? The allies have been very, very plain that they \ndo not want to do anything.\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: The consultations are ongoing. That's all I \ncan tell you at this point.\n\t \n\t Q\t Are you saying that there won't be any announcement \non Bosnia today in the press conference?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: No, that is not the intention of the press \nconference.\n\t \n\t Q\t What is the intention?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: It's an opportunity to take questions. He \nmay have a brief -- I'm sure he'll have a brief opening statement, \nbut it is not an opportunity to outline a new policy on Bosnia. That \nwill not happen.\n\t \n\t Q\t Can you tell us what the subject of the opening \nstatement is?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: It's sort of a general statement of where we \nare.\n\t \n\t Q\t After the first hundred days, you mean?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: It's not a long statement. I mean, this is \njust generally. Don't look for any major policy pronouncements.\n\t \n\t Q\t Do you know what the opening statement is?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: But it's -- perhaps later today I'll be able \nto tell you with more certainty -- I think that's still under review. \nBut the overriding purpose of this -- it's not a mystery; it's not \nmeant to be. It's just to take questions.\n\t \n\t Q\t It would be helpful to know whether -- what the \nopening statement is on.\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Since the major purpose here is just to take \nquestions, it's not completely resolved yet.\n\t \n\t Q\t Dee Dee, one policy that was expected last week and \nthat the White House, you and George seemed to indicate we might get, \nwould be an AIDS czar. Will he announce that today? And what's the \ndelay on that?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I don't think we meant to imply -- I think \nwe said it would happen soon. I don't think we meant to imply with \nany certainty that it would be this week. It is coming soon. I \ndon't anticipate that happening today.\n\t \n\t Q\t What's the delay? Isn't this the perfect time to \nannounce an AIDS czar?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I don't know that it's a delay. I think the \nprocess is ongoing to find the best possible person and to go through \nthe necessary background checks, and to make sure that we've crossed \nthe t's and dotted the i's before we make an announcement.\n\t \n\t Q\t Dee Dee, what are Zoe Baird's qualifications for \nthe Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board? And why wasn't her \nappointment announced here?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: The qualifications -- I don't know if \nthere's a specific list; I'll have to check and see. I think there \nare a number of people there on the board with different backgrounds. \nMany of them have long histories in intelligence or other government \nservice. I think there's a broad variety of views across political \nspectrum and across backgrounds that are represented there. We never \nmade a formal announcement other than the Chairman of the Board, \nwhich is Admiral William Crowe.\n\t \n\t Q\t Why would he appoint her, though, if the American \npeople and many in the Senate rejected her for another government \njob?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I don't believe that the American people \never had -- voted on her. And I certainly -- she was never rejected \nin the Senate. She never went up there for a hearing. But the \nPresident believes she's a very competent person. He's said that -- \nZoe Baird -- do you understand what the question is? Zoe Baird is on \nthe President's Foreign Intelligence --\n\t \n\t Q\t You said she never went up there for a hearing?\n\t \n\t Q\t Her nomination was withdrawn after public outrage \nover violating federal laws?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Right, she never -- she was never -- but you \nsaid she was rejected by the Senate. I was just simply trying to \npoint out that she was never voted on by the Senate.\n\t \n\t Q\t So you don't think that is any problem?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I don't think there's any problem.\n\t \n\t Q\t She has been appointed to this board, is that a \nfact?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Yes.\n\t \n\t Q\t Does she need confirmation for this? Does she need \nconfirmation to be a member of the --\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: No. It's a presidential appointment.\n\t \n\t Q\t Usually, announcements are made here at the White \nHouse. Was there a decision not to announce her publicly?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: We didn't make an announcement. People who \nasked were told who the members of the board were. We didn't make \nan official announcement. If anybody's interested in that we can \ncertainly put out the list of names.\n\t \n\t Q\t I'd like to know.\n\t \n\t Q\t Don't such board members -- don't you normally as a \nmatter of -- routinely put out releases on all these boards and \npresidential appointment regardless of their dimension?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Not always. But, again, I'm happy to put \nthis out.\n\t \n\t Q\t Isn't that the standard practice?\n\t \n\t Q\t That was past practice.\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Again, I'm happy to put it out. We'll put \nout a list of the members of the board today.\n\t \n\t Q\t Dee Dee, I don't want to try to fail to let you get \nout of this swamp but -- (laughter) -- all I really want to know is \nhasn't it been the practice in this administration for such \nannouncements to be made routinely?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I think generally but not always. And we're \nhappy to put that out today.\n\t \n\t Q\t What is the board, what is her title, what is the \nsize of the board?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: There is roughly a dozen members on the \nboard. It is a civilian board, although their are some, obviously, \nretired military personnel on the board that provide input into \nintelligence policy for the President. Again, the chairman of that \nboard is Admiral William Crowe.\n\t \n\t Q\t And did he recommend Baird?\n\t \n\t Q\t What's the name of the board?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: It's the President's Foreign Intelligence \nAdvisory Board, PFIAB.\n\t \n\t Q\t What's her qualification -- that she had employed \nan illegal alien? Is that -- (laughter) -- \n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Do you want an answer to the question or you \njust want to make a joke?\n\t \n\t Q\t Let me phrase it another way. Why shouldn't this \nappointment be viewed as a pay-back for the difficulty she had a \ncouple of months ago?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Because it's not. \n\t \n\t Q\t What's her experience in foreign intelligence?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: She's an experienced attorney, someone who \nthe President believes is very competent and qualified. And I think \npart of the mission of this board is to provide civilian input. Not \neverybody on the board is supposed to be an intelligence expert; that \nis not the board's mission. It is to provide civilian input for the \nPresident as he makes decisions regarding intelligence matters. He \nbelieves she's very qualified, very competent person, enormously \ntalented and has said that throughout.\n\t \n\t Q\t Is this just a figment of my overactive \nimagination, or was there discussion early on about abolishing the \nPresident's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I don't think so. On December 24th, when he \nannounced all of his foreign policy advisors he announced that he \nwould -- had appointed Admiral Crowe as the head of the board. So I \ndon't believe there's ever been any --\n\t \n\t Q\t Earlier than that, during the transition.\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: No, I don't believe so. It was announced, \nagain, on December 24th. Admiral Crowe couldn't be there, but it was \nannounced. \n\t \n\t Q\t Are members paid?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I don't believe so, but I'll double-check.\n\t \n\t Q\t On another subject, on Waco, how do you explain the \ndiscrepancy between the federal reports of the autopsies of the \nbodies that are coming out of Waco and the state? I guess it's the \nTexas Ranger reports. \n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Most of the information is coming -- the \nfederal information is coming from the site. Clearly, there's been \nsome discrepancies and the Justice Department is looking into it. \nOfficials in the Justice Department were told, I believe the day \nbefore yesterday, that there were several bodies found with bullet \nholes. I think there's some discrepancy about that, and the Justice \nDepartment is looking into it.\n\t \n\t Q\t Is the President going to get involved in trying to \nsort out what seems to be becoming a jurisdictional morass down \nthere, with some people withdrawing, others saying they're in charge, \nbut others -- Justice, FBI, Texas Rangers -- all grabbing a piece of \nthis?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I don't know that he's going to try to \nmediate the dispute. I mean, I'll let you know if there's anything \nhe intends to do about it. But as you know, there are several levels \nof investigation ongoing, and we're hopeful that they can work \ntogether. \n\t \n\t Q\t Is there any one agency or official down there in \ncharge of everything?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I don't know. I'll have to get back to you \non that.\n\t \n\t Q\t What is the subject matter of Sunday's speech?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: It's going to be fairly general. I don't \nthink it's going to be any specific announcements. I think it's \ngoing to be sort of a --\n\t \n\t Q\t Does he have a topic that he's going to talk about?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: We're still working on it. But I wouldn't \nlook for any announcements of, like, the drug czar or something like \nthat.\n\t \n\t Q\t Is it sort of a 100 days speech, sort of \"my \nexcellent adventure for 100 days\"? (Laughter.)\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Not exactly, but I think he'll take a little \nbit broader look about what's happened in the last --\n\t \n\t Q\t Foreign, domestic?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: A little bit of both, but I think a lot of \ndomestic.\n\t \n\t Q\t And overview. \n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Yes, more of an overview than a specific \npolicy announcement. \n\t \t \n\t Q\t Has there been an agreement yet on a forum by which \nthe President will address the gay rights march on Sunday?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: It will be a letter read to the crowd by \nCongresswoman Nancy Pelosi.\n\t \n\t Q\t Is that available?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Not yet, but it will be. Sure.\n\t \n\t Q\t Are you going to put it out here or --\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: We'll probably put it out here on Sunday.\n\t \n\t Q\t Travel next week?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Unclear.\n\t \n\t Q\t What was the question?\n\t \n\t Q\t Likely?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I don't --\n\t \n\t Q\t Likely? Possible?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Possible.\n\t \n\t Q\t What's possible?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Travel.\n\t \n\t Q\t George mentioned yesterday campaign finance reform \nand national service legislative proposals next week. Do you have \ndays yet for them?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Not yet.\n\t \n\t Q\t Can you tell us which order?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Campaign finance reform first; national \nservice later in the week.\n\t \n\t Q\t Is there any coverage tomorrow in Williamsburg?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: No.\n\t \n\t Q\t And any report in the aftermath of the day?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Any readout from the day?\n\t \n\t Q\t Readout.\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: It's possible. Jeff Eller will be down \nthere. I think he can go through what the President did during the \nday. We don't expect any photo op or anything, other than departure \nhere in the morning.\n\t \n\t Q\t Dee Dee, the President has not made a regular \npractice, as some of his predecessors have, of going to Camp David. \nIn fact, he's been there -- what -- once or twice?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Twice.\n\t \n\t Q\t Why this weekend?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: He went two weekends ago, as you know, on \nthe way home from his father-in-law's funeral. I think that they \nfound it to be a good experience and a nice way for them to spend \nsome time together as a family. And this is just an opportunity to \ndo the same.\n\t \n\t Q\t There's no march there.\n\t \n\t Q\t It has nothing to do with the march here?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: No.\n\t \n\t Q\t Since he's going to be in town Sunday morning now \ninstead of in Jamestown, have you thought about him making a quick \npass-by, fly-over -- (laughter) --\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: He'll fly straight to Boston.\n\t \n\t Q\t Flying straight did you say? (Laughter.)\n\t \n\t Q\t George took a question yesterday on Waco. The \nPresident had said on Tuesday in the Rose Garden that there was a \nminor disagreement on tactics between the military advisors and the \nFBI. And the question was whether you knew exactly what that was and \nwhether it related to the use of the particular kind of tear gas. Do \nyou have an answer on that?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I don't. I'll check.\n\t \n\t THE PRESS: Thank you.", "Can someone who knows what they're talking about add a FAQ entry\non gamma correction? Thanks.", "-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----\n\nMeeting of the UK Cryptoprivacy Association\n- -------------------------------------------\n\nSaturday, 8 May 1993, 1500\n\nTo be held at the offices of:\n\n FOREST\n 4th floor\n 2 Grosvenor Gardens\n London SW1W 0DH\n\nThis is located at the corner of Hobart Place, a couple of\nblocks west of Victoria Station, and almost directly across from\nthe dark green cabbie shelter.\n\nIf you have trouble finding the place, please call the office on\n071-823-6550. Or, call me (Russell Whitaker) on my pager,\n081-812-2661, and leave an informative message with the\ntelephone number where you can be reached; I will return the\ncall almost immediately.\n\nDiscussion will range from the usual general topics, such as the\nuse of secure public key cryptosystems to protect message data, to\nspecific topics, such as recent moves by the U.S. government\nto restrict choice in data privacy (reference recent discussion\non Usenet groups, e.g. sci.crypt and alt.security.pgp).\n\nAll are invited. Particularly welcome are members of the\nnewly-formed UK CommUnity group ... the local\nEFF-in-spirit-if-not-in-name folks.\n\nThose who plan to attend should email me and let me know.\nPlease.\n\nAll attendees are requested to bring diskettes - preferably\nMS-DOS - with their PGP 2.+ public keys. As is usual at these\ngatherings, several of us will bring our laptops, and will sign\npublic keys, subject to the usual caveats (reference the\ndocumentation for PGP 2.2, specifically files PGPDOC1.DOC and\nPGPDOC2.DOC).\n\nIf you do not already have a copy of PGP 2.2 (MS-DOS), and would\nlike to have a copy of this public domain program, please bring\na formatted, medium or high density 3.5 inch floppy PC diskette;\nyou will be provided a copy of the program.\n\nOf course, you might prefer to ftp a version of the program from\none of the various archive sites. I suggest trying Demon\nInternet Systems, which carries the full range of PGP (Phil\nZimmerman's \"Pretty Good Privacy\") implementations: directory\n/pub/pgp at gate.demon.co.uk.\n\nMeetings are of indeterminate time. Those who are interested\nare invited to join the rest of us at a pseudorandomly\ndetermined pub afterwards.\n\nPlease note:\n- ------------\nIn the past few months, interested people have emailed me,\nrequesting FAQs and special information mailings. I regret\nthat, except in very unusual cases (e.g. working press), I\ncannot, in a timely manner, respond to these requests. I will,\nhowever - and for the first time - do a writeup of this meeting,\nwhich I will post in various places.\n\nWhat I *am* willing to supply is general information on our\nactivities for the maintainers of existing FAQs, such as that\nfor alt.privacy. FAQ maintainers can contact me at\nwhitaker@eternity.demon.co.uk\n\nRussell Earl Whitaker whitaker@eternity.demon.co.uk\nCommunications Editor AMiX: RWhitaker\nEXTROPY: The Journal of Transhumanist Thought\nBoard member, Extropy Institute (ExI)\n================ PGP 2.2 public key available =======================\n\n-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----\nVersion: 2.2", "Here is a copy of my first update on the Randy Weaver trial.\nAfter a large response (about 15 email messages), I've decided\nthat there is sufficient interest here on t.p.g. to warrant\nposting.\n\n*** file follows *** \n\nHi Folks;\n\nAs perhaps the only Boise resident on the list, I guess it\nkind of falls on me to keep people updated about the\nRandy Weaver/Kevin Harris trial.\n\nYesterday marked the seating of the jury. Apparently no other\nlegal activities occurred. The jury was selected and things\nstart today.\n\nMore interesting is what happenned outside. About a dozen\nWeaver supporters showed up to stage a protest outside the\ncourthouse. One woman carried a sign that read, \"Who stands\ntrial for the murder of Vicki and (son's name - I forget)\nWeaver?\" On the evening news she said, \"I am here protesting\nbecause I believe in freedom of speech and freedom of religion.\nI thought we all did.\" Nice sound bite (grin)!\n\nThe news reporter also interviewed some guy named \"Tim\"\nwho refused to give his last name. Not to prejudge the\nguy, but he looked like a neo-nazi. He also said he\nexpected many neo-nazis to show up throughout the trial.\n\"Tim\" had been handing out leaflets in support of Weaver\nand Harris and the news had footage of a Boise cop\ntelling him to move along or he'd arrest. I don't know\nthe finer points of this one. Perhaps there's a law\nagainst political activity within X feet of a courthouse\nor something (what happenned to the First Amendment?!?).\n\nMost ominous of all was that the local reporter filmed\nan agent of the Gestapo...err...ATF with a minicam\nFILMING THE PROTESTORS! Welcome to the world of Big Brother.\n\nAnyhow, Gerry Spence came out and asked the protestors to\nleave because he didn't think it would help Weaver's case\nany. He said he was confident that, once the evidence\ncame out, that Weaver would be aquitted.\n\nMore stuff as it comes available.", "[... snip ...]\n\n\nCan you imagine what happens when a magazine explodes? Bullets go flying every\nwhere. IMHO, these \"gunshot wounds\" were actually caused when the magazines \nwent up. A Texas ranger does not a pathologist make, so I'll wait for an\nautopsy to determine if they were shot first. ", "Heres the life of St. MAria Goretti, posted with kind permission of\nthe editor of the Australian Catholic Magazine \"Morning Star\".\n\nHope you like it.\n\n Put up with anything to prevent sin St. Maria Goretti\n\n\n\n Maria was born on October 16th 1890 to Luigi and Assunta Goretti,\n the eldest daughter in the family of seven. She was a cheerful\n girl, always imitating her parents. She had but one disire, but\n one wish: to receive our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament.\n\n The date was finally set for little Maria to receive our Lord on\n the feast of Corpus Christi. For Maria, time seemed like an eter-\n nity as she slowly neared the great day. When it finally\n arrived, Fr. Jerome( the priest who was to celebrate the Mass and\n give the children their First Holy Communion) delivered a sermon\n on\tthe immense love of Jesus Christ for them and the great love\n we should have in return for Him. He then warmly urged them to\n die rather than commit a mortal sin.\n\n Maria humbly approached the Altar of God and received the Holy\n Eucharist.\tHer only sadness was the thought of her father's\n absence, who died some time beforehand. As for the\trest of the\n day, Maria remained under the spell of the divine visit; that is\n until\n\n\t\t\t\t -4-\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n her thoughts changed to when she could go next to Holy Communion.\n Thus ended the happiest day of Maria's life.\n\n Over the next twelve months, Maria had changed from a giggling\n little girl into a quiet young lady with responsibilities. As her\n mother went out into the fields in place of her husband,\tMaria\n took on the ironing, cooking, washing and other motherly duties.\n She was doing this not only for her own family, but also for the\n Serenellis, a father and son who lived with the Goretti's, owning\n a share in the farm. Although Maria was poorer than all the other\n children, she by far surpassed them in virtue. In all thi ngs she\n did the Holy Will of God.\n\n During the month of June, Alessandro Serenelli(the son)\ttwice\n made advances upon Maria when he chanced to be alone with her. On\n both occasions Maria managed to struggle free of Alessandro's\n strong grip, but on the second, he threatened to kill her if she\n even uttered a word to her mother. From this day on, Maria\tlived\n in terror, fearing lest Alessandro attack again.\n\n\n On July 5th 1902, Alessandro left work in the fields to \"get a\n handkerchief,\" as\the claimed. He went to the storeroom beneath\n the house where Maria, who was outside on the landing with the\n baby, could hear him fumbling about in with tools. She wondered\n what he was doing. It was later learned that he was sharpening a\n 91/2\" blade. He went to the house and called for Maria. She told\n him she wouldn't go to him unless she knew why she was needed. He\n stormed out to the landing and dragged her up to her room. Mar ia\n instantly realized what he was up to. \"No, No, No! Do not\ttouch\n me! It is a sin, you will go to Hell!\" At this point Alessandro\n held the knife over Maria's chest, who was now on the floor.\n\n \"Will you or will you not?\" Maria gathered all her energy.\t\"No I\n will not,\tAlessandro, no!\" She had chosen her martyrdom over\n sin, God over Satan. Overcome with rage, Alessandro plunged the\n knife into Maria's breast fourteen times. Finally he came to\n his senses and thought Maria was dead. Frantically he threw the\n knife behind a closet and locked himself in his room. The crying\n of the baby Teresa\ton the landing brought the\tattention to\n Assunta and the father of Alessandro. As the baby was unattended\n and was in danger of falling off, they ran to the house to find\n Maria, who, covered in blood, was dragging herself to the door.\n When asked what happened she said Alessandro stabbed her. \"He\n wanted to make me do wrong and I would not.\"\n\n The ambulance arrived, then the police who took Alessandro\taway.\n As\tthe ambulance\tcarried Maria to the hospital, a large crowd\n followed on foot. The doctors at the hospital held no hope for\n poor little Maria. The same Fr. Jerome who gave Maria her First\n Communion\n\n\t\t\t\t -5-\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n came to administer the last rites and to give her Holy Viaticum.\n He asked Maria if she would forgive her murderer. \"Yes. For the\n love of Jesus I forgive him. I wish for him to one day join me\n in\tParadise. May God forgive him, for I alread y have.\" Maria\n died at about three o'clock.\n\n Alessandro was tried and found guilty of Maria's death but\n because of his age he was sentenced to only thirty years in\n prison. After eight years of being a violent prisoner and show-\n ing no regret for his crime, he saw in a dream, in the midst of\n a field of flowers, Maria holding out a bunch of white lilies to\n him. Soon later he wrote to the local bishop, begging God's par-\n don for the grave sin he had committed. He later gave testimony\n in\tMaria's beatification in 1947. Less than three years later,\n on Ju ne 24th 1950, Maria was canonised. Assunta Goretti was the\n first mother ever to be present at her daughter's canonisation.\n\n May St. Maria Goretti help\tus to\tbe pure and grant us the\n strength to die rather than commit a mortal sin.\n\n Saint Maria Goretti, pray for us.\n\n\n by Brendan Arthur\n", " ^^^^^^^^^^\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ !!!!!!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ \n\nIt is my impression that net etiquette does not allow companies to\nuse the net to directly advertise their products.\n\nIn addition to improper etiquette, this product is a mailing list\nused for generating junk mail. \n\nAm I correct in assuming this is improper, and if so, what can be \ndone to penalize such an improper use?", "[ ... ]", "\nRadio-Electronics sends each company a bunch of computer-printed address\nlabels for all the people who circled that company's number.\n\nThe company sends whatever it wants to -- normally a catalog.\n\n", "Darwin fish can be bought from:\n--\n\"JOIN THE DARWINNERS (TM) Send $6 to receive your official Evolving\nFish.. wherever you want to spread the good news! Darwinners, 6671\nSunset Blvd., Ste. 1525, L.A.,CA 90028 THE GREATEST THEORY EVER TOLD!\"\n\nJenny", "\n\n No kidding. The most recent post I saw in alt.privacy.clipper (and I\nhope anyone interested in this topic ends up there) states that Clipper\nhas been in development for over four years.\n\n I am, however, more than a little PO'd that Clinton put his name on\nthis monstrosity, or even allowed it to get out the door, for that matter.\nHe's already heard from me, and I hope you'll all take the time to voice\nyour extreme displeasure as well.\n", "\nKoff! You mean that as long as I put you to sleep first,\nI can kill you without being cruel?\n\nThis changes everything.", "\n\n But that's just the problem. There is no such thing as\n \"MIME-Formatted\". By analogy, MIME is a content-labelling\n standard for the box, not a specification for the contents\n themselves. It provides a standard for \"like-minded\"\n individuals to exchange mail containing an agreed-upon data\n format.\n\n You say tomahto, I say tomaeto; you say postscript, I say\n SGML...\n \n Cheers,\n Marc\n\n---\n Marc Thibault | CIS:71441,2226 | Put another log\n marc@tanda.isis.org | NC FreeNet: aa185 | on the fire.\n\n-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----\nVersion: 2.0", "\nAs much as I considered some of the (so-called) Islam-related dialogue\nhere a total waste of time, I somehow can't restrain myself in this\ninstance, so, Gregg, try this:\n\n20:52 P.S.T. I come to my senses and accept the all-knowing\nwisdom and power of the Quran and Allah. Not only that, but Allah \nhimself drops by to congratulate me on my wise choice. Allah rolls a\nfew bones and we get down. Then Allah gets out the Crisco, bends \nover, and invites me to take a spin around the block. Wow.\n\n20:56 P.S.T. I realize that maybe Allah is looking for more of a \ncommitment than I'm ready for, so I say \"Man, I've got some\nprogramming to do. Gotta go. I'll call you.\"\n\n20:59 P.S.T Thinking it over, I renounce Islam.\n\nBTW, Gregg, Allah said he still thinks of you.", " \nNot at all. I am not a member of the Religious Left, Right, or even\nCenter. In fact I don't consider myself very religious at all [ this will\nprobably result in flames now :) ]. In fact Phil, you should leave\nreligion out of it. It just clouds the issue.\n \n \nHow typical. So you think we shouldn't avoid these 'events' [ I shall\nrefrain from the word disaster since it seems to upset you so much. :( ]\nwhen we can. In case you didn't realize it, the natural disasters [ oops,\nsorry events ] you are refering to we have no control over. Man-made\nones we do.\n\nI guess you missed the show on Ch 20 earlier this week about the disaster\n[ oops there I go again... I meant to say event ] on the Exxon Valdez.\nJust a natural every day occurance to spread oil on 300 Miles of beach. I\nwould like to know which natural event [ hey I remembered not to say disaster ]\nthat would be similar to this.\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t \n \nHmm, I suppose you could be right. They are as natural as a tree, or a\nsunrise. NOT !\n \n\nSo look, if you want to worship a oil slick ( or toxic waste dump or live\nin a house that has a cesspool in the front yard ), fine, you have my\npermission to do so [ yea right like you need MY permission... ], it just\nwon't be in the neighborhood where I live. But DON'T try to push your\nshortsighted tunnelvision views off on the rest of us.\n", "Could some kind soul point me in the right direction for the\nFAQ list for this group.\n\nThanks.\n\n--------------------\nSaad Mufti\nPersonal Library Software", " \n(Deletion)\n \nYou have demanded harsh punishments of several crimes. Repeating\noffenders have slipped in only as justification of harsh punishment at\nall. Typically religious doublespeak. Whenever you have contradictory\nstatements you choose the possibility that suits your current argument.\n \nIt is disgusting that someone with ideas that would make Theodore KKKaldis\nfeel cozy can go along under the protection of religion.", "\nI don't think so. The assumption is there. If it turns out that\ntheir software has a virus, then it is up to you to prove that fact\nto a court to get any damages. You are theoretically suppossed to \nbe able to get damages for that, but you have to give some evidence\nthat the virus came from that software. But since the computer\ncompany is the defendent, they are uninvolved until proven guilty.\n\nPlease, not Pascal! NOOOOO!! ;)\n", "\nI knew that Cutie would sell us out. Full-blooded Democrat, he is :-)\n\nSeriously folks, if it can happen here (remember? we all got gun racks on\nour 4x4s), it can happen anywhere. Now to get that letter ready. `Dear \nCutie, as one who didn't vote for you, I can sincerely say I am unhappy...'\n\n\n\nThose who know what's best for us\nMust try to save us from ourselves\n-- RUSH\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------", "\n Jung may have said that, but he was in no way speaking for the\nCatholic Church. The dogma of the Assumption in no way means Mary is\nconsidered to be God or part of \"the Godhead.\" Therefore it implies no\nsuch thing about the feminine in general.\n\n Also Jung's statement makes it sound as though the dogma was\nannounced \"out of the blue.\" This also is incorrect, as dogma is only\nthe formulation of what has always been part of Tradition. This dogma\nhas always been believed, but was not formally defined until the\nAssumption was declared as an _ex cathedra_ statement.", "\nThe tax protesters are legally correct, but they are put in jail anyway.\n\nThe weakness of the governments legal position is shown by the fact that when\nsomeone protesting tax or gun laws on legal grounds gets a federal jury trial\n(very rare) the feds blatantly stack the jury, with the same old faces turning\nup time after time.\n\nHowever Teel should have mentioned that though his advice is legally sound, if\nyou follow it you will probably wind up in jail.\n", "Well, it looks like the folks in soc.religion.islam have loosened up\na bit and are discussing this topic as well as the banking/interest\ntopic. A few books on the subject have also been mentioned in addition\nto the one you mentioned. These may be hard to find, but I think I may\ntake a stab at it out of curiosity. I know the one film I saw on this\nsubject was pretty weak and the only two quotes I have seen which were\nused to show science in the Koran (which I posted here) were also pretty \nvague. I suspect that these books will extrapolate an awful lot on the\nquotes they have.\n\nAt least one poster on the Islam channel seems to have some misgivings\nabout the practice of using the Koran to decide what is good science.\n\nI wonder if Islam has ever come up with the equivalent of the Christians\n\"Creation Science\" on any topic. It would be interesting to find a history\nof scientific interpretations of the Koran, to see if anyone used the Koran\nto support earlier science which has since been discarded. It is all too\neasy to look at science as it exists today and then \"interpret\" passages\nto match those findings. People do similar things with the sayings of\nNostradamus all the time.", ": In article <1993Apr22.170418.15799@news.eng.convex.com> gardner@convex.com\n\n...cascades elided to preserve our sanity....\n\n: That wasn't my point. My point is that your implied position about the \"Waco\n: Massacre\" is an assertion cum political position. According to a CNN poll,\n....\n: What you call the \"Big Brother Chip\" is right now a proposal under\n: discussion, and it is not yet clear that strong crypto is going to be\n: banned.\n\nJust to set the record straight, Steve Gardner was not the author of\nthe bit you quoted--I was. Steve just took issue with David's\ncharacterization of my words as \"pernicious nonsense.\"\n\nI won't further comment on my own views...folks either support 'em or\nthey don't, and the lines in question were neither central to the\npoints I was making in my original post nor to the important debate\nhere in sci.crypt and elsewhere.\n\n\n-Tim May, who continues to hold the same views but doesn't feel like\ndebating politics\n", "\nNowadays, usually with a computer. No theory predicted the numeric \ndiscoveries listed above. No one can yet write an algorithm that will\npredict the precise behavior of any of these at any precise level of\ntheir evolution. So it remains for experimenters to gather data on their\nbehavior.\n\nGary", "Sorry, _perijoves_...I'm not used to talking this language.", "\n\nAccording to an AP report (from Texas, written by Jaime Aron) this morning,\nin addtion to the gas pumped in by hoses from CS generators, canisters of\ntear gas were thrown into the building from armored vehicles, one of the\ncanisters hitting a man inside in the face.\n\nThis was in the part of the article *before* going into differences in\nthe stories told by BD survivors and the gov't.\n\nTear gas canisters *used* to be able to start fires...\n\n\n\n\n\n-- ", "I have a certificate for 2 round-trip airfares to the Bahamas.\nExpiration date is one year from now.\n\nThe maximum value, depending on time and location, is estimated at\n$1628. I am asking for $1500 or best offer.\n\nFor more information, call Goh at\n\n(415) 497-0663\n\nor send mail to\n\nkmgoh@leland.stanford.edu", "From: Wales.Larrison@ofa123.fidonet.org\n\nIf this facility is in Kaliningrad, this is not near Moscow,\nit is in fact the ex-East Prussian Konigsberg, now a Russian\nenclave on the Baltic coast. It is served by ships and rail, \nand the intrepid traveller in Europe would find it accessible \nand might even want to try to arrange a tour (??).\n\n* Fred Baube (tm) * In times of intellectual ferment,\n* baube@optiplan.fi * advantage to him with the intellect\n* #include * most fermented\n* May '68, Paris: It's Retrospective Time !! ", "Thanks for the many offers to review this book.\n\nIf you received a review copy, please return it\nas soon as possible. I had a system crash and\nlost the list of people I sent it to!\n\nThanks", "I agree that notifying your elected officials of your feelings on this\n(and any other, for that matter) issue is the way to go. And by the\nway, the phone #s on the list posted the other day were all in Washington\nD.C. -- For most of you, your elected officials will also maintain\na local office in your area code.\n\nWhen I 'manage' my elected officials, I use their local office #'s\nexclusively, and my fax modem and windows-print-capture software are\nmy tool of choice. They see my words as I have stated them, rather\nthan a summary as they would if I called in /voice/ and left a\ncomment with the office staff.\n\n", "\n\nWell, there are several bursts in species diversity I can think of.\nThe Cambrian and Ordovician explosions resulted in a vast increase\nin animal diversity. Likewise, after the one-two punch of the\nPermian and Triassic extinctions, the number of marine animals\nrose steadily (**) to an all-time high (*) just prior to the spread \nof humans.\n\n(**) biggest exception being the K/T (bye bye dinos) extinction\n\n(*) about 800 families\n\nAlso, plants arose from green algae and colonized the land in\nsuccesive sweeps. Mosses colonized very wet environments first,\nferns (who had evolved vascular tissues) took over more territory\nwhen they evolved (1). These were eventually (mostly) replaced by gymnosperms\n(pines and the like) (2) and then (mostly) displaced by angiosperms (flowering\nplants -- now the dominant plant group on the planet(3). Fungi\nalso radiated greatly with the invasion of the land. \n\n(1) around the carboniferous (up to about 200 families)\n(2) around the triassic (up to maybe 250 families)\n(3) starting in the cretaceous (rising to about 600 families currently)\n\nIt's unclear (to me at least) what the max equilibrium number\nof species the earth can hold (***) and if it has ever hit this\nin the past. It could be (warning: speculation alert) that\ndiversity has never reached a peak because mass extinctions\nhappen often enough to keep the total number down.\n\n(***) This would depend a great deal on how fragmented\nspecific ecosystems were. \n\nSee Cowen's book \"History of Life\" for a not-too-technical\nrun-down on, well, like the title sez, the history of life.\nOr see, Wilson's \"Diversity of Life\" for a view centered more\non current ecology -- this is (IMHO) the best popular biology\nbook of (what the hell, I'll say it) all time. \n\n\nFollow-ups to t.o.", "Archive-name: cryptography-faq/part08\nLast-modified: 1993/4/15\n\n\nFAQ for sci.crypt, part 8: Technical Miscellany\n\nThis is the eighth of ten parts of the sci.crypt FAQ. The parts are\nmostly independent, but you should read the first part before the rest.\nWe don't have the time to send out missing parts by mail, so don't ask.\nNotes such as ``[KAH67]'' refer to the reference list in the last part.\n\nThe sections of this FAQ are available via anonymous FTP to rtfm.mit.edu \nas /pub/usenet/news.answers/cryptography-faq/part[xx]. The Cryptography \nFAQ is posted to the newsgroups sci.crypt, sci.answers, and news.answers\nevery 21 days.\n\n\nContents\n\n* How do I recover from lost passwords in WordPerfect?\n* How do I break a Vigenere (repeated-key) cipher?\n* How do I send encrypted mail under UNIX? [PGP, RIPEM, PEM, ...]\n* Is the UNIX crypt command secure?\n* How do I use compression with encryption?\n* Is there an unbreakable cipher?\n* What does ``random'' mean in cryptography?\n* What is the unicity point (a.k.a. unicity distance)?\n* What is key management and why is it important?\n* Can I use pseudo-random or chaotic numbers as a key stream?\n* What is the correct frequency list for English letters?\n* What is the Enigma?\n* How do I shuffle cards?\n* Can I foil S/W pirates by encrypting my CD-ROM?\n* Can you do automatic cryptanalysis of simple ciphers?\n* What is the coding system used by VCR+?\n\n\n* How do I recover from lost passwords in WordPerfect?\n\n WordPerfect encryption has been shown to be very easy to break.\n The method uses XOR with two repeating key streams: a typed password\n and a byte-wide counter initialized to 1+. Full\n descriptions are given in Bennett [BEN87] and Bergen and Caelli\n [BER91].\n\n decrypt WordPerfect document files and I think I have a solution. \n There is a software company named: Accessdata (87 East 600 South,\n Orem, UT 84058), 1-800-658-5199 that has a software package that will\n decrypt any WordPerfect, Lotus 1-2-3, Quatro-Pro, MS Excel and Paradox\n files. The cost of the package is $185. Steep prices, but if you\n think your pw key is less than 10 characters, (or 10 char) give them a\n call and ask for the free demo disk. The demo disk will decrypt files\n that have a 10 char or less pw key.''\n\n* How do I break a Vigenere (repeated-key) cipher?\n\n A repeated-key cipher, where the ciphertext is something like the\n plaintext xor KEYKEYKEYKEY (and so on), is called a Vigenere cipher.\n If the key is not too long and the plaintext is in English, do the\n following: \n\n 1. Discover the length of the key by counting coincidences.\n (See Gaines [GAI44], Sinkov [SIN66].) Trying each displacement of\n the ciphertext against itself, count those bytes which are equal. \n If the two ciphertext portions have used the same key, something\n over 6% of the bytes will be equal. If they have used different\n key, then less than 0.4% will be equal (assuming random 8-bit bytes\n of key covering normal ASCII text). The smallest displacement which\n indicates an equal key is the length of the repeated key.\n\n 2. Shift the text by that length and XOR it with itself. This\n removes the key and leaves you with text XORed with itself. Since\n English has about 1 bit of real information per byte, 2 streams of\n text XORed together has 2 bits of info per 8-bit byte, providing\n plenty of redundancy for choosing a unique decryption. (And in fact\n one stream of text XORed with itself has just 1 bit per byte.)\n\n If the key is short, it might be even easier to treat this as a\n standard polyalphabetic substitution. All the old cryptanalysis\n texts show how to break those. It's possible with those methods, in\n the hands of an expert, if there's only ten times as much text as key.\n See, for example, Gaines [GAI44], Sinkov [SIN66].\n\n* How do I send encrypted mail under UNIX? [PGP, RIPEM, PEM, ...]\n\n Here's one popular method, using the des command:\n\n cat file | compress | des private_key | uuencode | mail\n\n Meanwhile, there is a de jure Internet standard in the works called\n PEM (Privacy Enhanced Mail). It is described in RFCs 1421 through\n 1424. To join the PEM mailing list, contact pem-dev-request@tis.com.\n There is a beta version of PEM being tested at the time of this\n writing.\n\n There are also two programs available in the public domain for encrypting\n mail: PGP and RIPEM. Both are available by FTP. Each has its own\n newsgroup: alt.security.pgp and alt.security.ripem. Each has its own FAQ\n as well.\n\n PGP is most commonly used outside the USA since it uses the RSA algorithm\n without a license and RSA's patent is valid only (or at least primarily)\n in the USA.\n\n RIPEM is most commonly used inside the USA since it uses the RSAREF which\n is freely available within the USA but not available for shipment outside\n the USA.\n\n Since both programs use a secret key algorithm for encrypting the body of\n the message (PGP used IDEA; RIPEM uses DES) and RSA for encrypting the\n message key, they should be able to interoperate freely. Although there\n have been repeated calls for each to understand the other's formats and\n algorithm choices, no interoperation is available at this time (as far as\n we know).\n\n* Is the UNIX crypt command secure?\n\n No. See [REE84]. There is a program available called cbw (crypt\n breaker's workbench) which can be used to do ciphertext-only attacks\n on files encrypted with crypt. One source for CBW is [FTPCB].\n\n* How do I use compression with encryption?\n\n A number of people have proposed doing perfect compression followed by\n some simple encryption method (e.g., XOR with a repeated key).\n\n Unfortunately, you can only compress perfectly if you know the exact\n distribution of possible inputs. For all practical purposes it's\n impossible to describe ``the typical English text'' beyond coarse\n characteristics such as single-letter frequencies. You can build up\n more and more sophisticated models of your inputs, but if the enemy\n has a slightly more accurate model, he'll be able to find some\n redundancy in your compressed output.\n\n Note that nearly all practical compression schemes, unless they\n have been designed with cryptography in mind, produce output that\n actually starts off with high redundancy. For example, the output of\n UNIX compress begins with a well-known three-byte ``magic number''\n that can serve as an entering wedge for cryptanalysis.\n \n This is not to say that compression before encryption is inherently a\n bad idea; it just has to be done very, very carefully, and by no means\n removes the need for strong encryption.\n\n Compression after encryption is silly.\n\n* Is there an unbreakable cipher?\n\n Yes. The one-time pad is unbreakable; see part 4. Unfortunately the\n one-time pad requires secure distribution of as much key material as\n plaintext.\n\n Of course, a cryptosystem need not be utterly unbreakable to be\n useful. Rather, it needs to be strong enough to resist attacks by\n likely enemies for whatever length of time the data it protects is\n expected to remain valid.\n\n* What does ``random'' mean in cryptography?\n\n Cryptographic applications demand much more out of a pseudorandom\n number generator than most applications. For a source of bits to be\n cryptographically random, it must be computationally impossible to\n predict what the Nth random bit will be given complete knowledge of\n the algorithm or hardware generating the stream and the sequence of\n 0th through N-1st bits, for all N up to the lifetime of the source.\n\n A software generator (also known as pseudo-random) has the function\n of expanding a truly random seed to a longer string of apparently\n random bits. This seed must be large enough not to be guessed by\n the opponent. Ideally, it should also be truly random (perhaps\n generated by a hardware random number source).\n\n Those who have Sparcstation 1 workstations could, for example,\n generate random numbers using the audio input device as a source of\n entropy, by not connecting anything to it. For example,\n\n\tcat /dev/audio | compress - >foo\n\n gives a file of high entropy (not random but with much randomness in\n it). One can then encrypt that file using part of itself as a key,\n for example, to convert that seed entropy into a pseudo-random\n string.\n\n When looking for hardware devices to provide this entropy, it is\n important really to measure the entropy rather than just assume that\n because it looks complicated to a human, it must be \"random\". For\n example, disk operation completion times sound like they might be\n unpredictable (to many people) but a spinning disk is much like a\n clock and its output completion times are relatively low in entropy.\n\n* What is the unicity point (a.k.a. unicity distance)?\n\n See [SHA49]. The unicity distance is an approximation to that amount\n of ciphertext such that the sum of the real information (entropy) in\n the corresponding source text and encryption key equals the number\n of ciphertext bits used. Ciphertexts significantly longer than this\n can be shown probably to have a unique decipherment. This is used to\n back up a claim of the validity of a ciphertext-only cryptanalysis. \n Ciphertexts significantly shorter than this are likely to have\n multiple, equally valid decryptions and therefore to gain security\n from the opponent's difficulty choosing the correct one.\n\n Unicity distance, like all statistical or information-theoretic\n measures, does not make deterministic predictions but rather gives\n probabilistic results: namely, the minimum amount of ciphertext\n for which it is likely that there is only a single intelligible\n plaintext corresponding to the ciphertext, when all possible keys\n are tried for the decryption. Working cryptologists don't normally\n deal with unicity distance as such. Instead they directly determine\n the likelihood of events of interest.\n\n Let the unicity distance of a cipher be D characters. If fewer than\n D ciphertext characters have been intercepted, then there is not\n enough information to distinguish the real key from a set of\n possible keys. DES has a unicity distance of 17.5 characters,\n which is less than 3 ciphertext blocks (each block corresponds to\n 8 ASCII characters). This may seem alarmingly low at first, but\n the unicity distance gives no indication of the computational work\n required to find the key after approximately D characters have been\n intercepted.\n\n In fact, actual cryptanalysis seldom proceeds along the lines used\n in discussing unicity distance. (Like other measures such as key\n size, unicity distance is something that guarantees insecurity if\n it's too small, but doesn't guarantee security if it's high.) Few\n practical cryptosystems are absolutely impervious to analysis; all\n manner of characteristics might serve as entering ``wedges'' to crack\n some cipher messages. However, similar information-theoretic\n considerations are occasionally useful, for example, to determine a\n recommended key change interval for a particular cryptosystem.\n Cryptanalysts also employ a variety of statistical and\n information-theoretic tests to help guide the analysis in the most\n promising directions.\n\n Unfortunately, most literature on the application of information\n statistics to cryptanalysis remains classified, even the seminal\n 1940 work of Alan Turing (see [KOZ84]). For some insight into the\n possibilities, see [KUL68] and [GOO83].\n\n* What is key management and why is it important?\n\n One of the fundamental axioms of cryptography is that the enemy is in\n full possession of the details of the general cryptographic system,\n and lacks only the specific key data employed in the encryption. (Of\n course, one would assume that the CIA does not make a habit of telling\n Mossad about its cryptosystems, but Mossad probably finds out anyway.)\n Repeated use of a finite amount of key provides redundancy that can\n eventually facilitate cryptanalytic progress. Thus, especially in\n modern communication systems where vast amounts of information are\n transferred, both parties must have not only a sound cryptosystem but\n also enough key material to cover the traffic.\n\n Key management refers to the distribution, authentication, and\n handling of keys.\n\n A publicly accessible example of modern key management technology\n is the STU III secure telephone unit, which for classified use\n employs individual coded ``Crypto Ignition Keys'' and a central Key\n Management Center operated by NSA. There is a hierarchy in that\n certain CIKs are used by authorized cryptographic control\n personnel to validate the issuance of individual traffic keys and\n to perform installation/maintenance functions, such as the\n reporting of lost CIKs.\n\n This should give an inkling of the extent of the key management\n problem. For public-key systems, there are several related issues,\n many having to do with ``whom do you trust?''\n\n* Can I use pseudo-random or chaotic numbers as a key stream?\n\n Chaotic equations and fractals produce an apparent randomness from\n relatively compact generators. Perhaps the simplest example is a\n linear congruential sequence, one of the most popular types of random\n number generators, where there is no obvious dependence between seeds\n and outputs. Unfortunately the graph of any such sequence will, in a\n high enough dimension, show up as a regular lattice. Mathematically\n this lattice corresponds to structure which is notoriously easy for\n cryptanalysts to exploit. More complicated generators have more\n complicated structure, which is why they make interesting pictures---\n but a cryptographically strong sequence will have no computable\n structure at all.\n\n See [KNU81], exercise 3.5-7; [REE77]; and [BOY89].\n\n* What is the correct frequency list for English letters?\n\n There are three answers to this question, each slightly deeper than\n the one before. You can find the first answer in various books:\n namely, a frequency list computed directly from a certain sample of\n English text. Of course any such list will be ``correctly'' computed,\n but exactly which list you get depends on which sample was taken.\n\n The second answer is that the question doesn't make sense. What do\n you mean by ``English letters''? The ``English language'' is not a\n fixed, finite, closed object that can be exactly characterized. It\n has changed over time; it is different between different authors.\n Any particular message will have different statistics from those of\n the language as a whole.\n\n The third answer is that yes, no particular message is going to have\n exactly the same characteristics as English in general, but for all\n reasonable statistical uses these slight discrepancies won't matter.\n In fact there's an entire field called ``Bayesian statistics'' (other\n buzzwords are ``maximum entropy methods'' and ``maximum likelihood\n estimation'') which studies questions like ``What's the chance that a\n text with these letter frequencies is in English?'' and comes up with\n reasonably robust answers.\n\n So make your own list from your own samples of English text. It will\n be good enough for practical work, if you use it properly.\n\n* What is the Enigma?\n\n ``For a project in data security we are looking for sources of\n information about the German Enigma code and how it was broken by\n the British during WWII.''\n\n See [WEL82], [DEA85], [KOZ84], [HOD83], [KAH91].\n\n* How do I shuffle cards?\n\n Card shuffling is a special case of the permutation of an array of\n values, using a random or pseudo-random function. All possible output\n permutations of this process should be equally likely. To do this, you\n need a random function (modran(x)) which will produce a uniformly\n distributed random integer in the interval [0..x-1]. Given that\n function, you can shuffle with the following [C] code: (assuming ARRLTH\n is the length of array arr[] and swap() interchanges values at the two\n addresses given)\n\n for ( n = ARRLTH-1; n > 0 ; n-- ) swap( &arr[modran( n+1 )], &arr[n] ) ;\n\n modran(x) can not be achieved exactly with a simple (ranno() % x) since\n ranno()'s interval may not be divisible by x, although in most cases the\n error will be very small. To cover this case, one can take ranno()'s\n modulus mod x, call that number y, and if ranno() returns a value less\n than y, go back and get another ranno() value.\n\n\n* Can I foil S/W pirates by encrypting my CD-ROM?\n\n Someone will frequently express the desire to publish a CD-ROM with\n possibly multiple pieces of software, perhaps with each encrypted\n separately, and will want to use different keys for each user (perhaps\n even good for only a limited period of time) in order to avoid piracy.\n\n As far as we know, this is impossible, since there is nothing in standard\n PC or workstation hardware which uniquely identifies the user at the\n keyboard. If there were such an identification, then the CD-ROM could be\n encrypted with a key based in part on the one sold to the user and in\n part on the unique identifier. However, in this case the CD-ROM is one\n of a kind and that defeats the intended purpose.\n\n If the CD-ROM is to be encrypted once and then mass produced, there must\n be a key (or set of keys) for that encryption produced at some stage in\n the process. That key is useable with any copy of the CD-ROM's data.\n The pirate needs only to isolate that key and sell it along with the\n illegal copy.\n\n\n* Can you do automatic cryptanalysis of simple ciphers?\n\n Utah sells products that break the password scheme of a number of\n popular Macintosh and PC software packages. Their telephone number\n is (801) 224-6970\n\n No PD software has been cited but there are many papers on the\n subject....\n\n Peleg, S. and Rosenfeld, A. \"Breaking Substitution Ciphers Using a\n Relaxation Algorithm\" Comm. ACM Vol. 22(11) pp 598-605 (Nov. 1979)\n \n Lucks, Michael, \"A Constraint Satisfaction Algorithm for the\n Automated Decryption of Simple Substitution Ciphers\", Advances in\n Cryptology -- CRYPTO '88, Springer Lecture Notes in Computer\n Science, vol. 403 (The paper also contains references to earlier\n work on the subject.)\n \n John Carrol and Steve Martin, \"The Automated Cryptanalysis of\n Substitution Ciphers\", Cryptologia, vol X number 4, Oct 86 p193-209.\n \n John Carrol and Lynda Robbins, \"Automated Cryptanalysis of\n Polyalphabetic Ciphers\", Cryptologia, vol XI number 4, Oct 87\n p193-205\n \n Martin Kochanski, \"A Survey of Data Insecurity Packages\",\n Cryptologia, vol XI number 1, Jan 87 p1-15\n \n Martin Kochanski, \"Another Data Insecurity Package\", Cryptologia,\n vol XII number 3, July 88, p165-177.\n \n Cryptologia Vol XIII Number 4 1989 pp 303-326.\n \n King and Bahler, \"Probabilistic Relaxation in the Cryptanalysis of\n Simple Substitution Ciphers\" Cryptologia 16(3):215-225.\n \n King and Bahler, \"An Algorithmic Solution of Sequential Homophonic\n Ciphers\". Cryptologia, April 93 (in press).\n \n R. Spillman et.al., \"Use of Genetic Algorithms in Cryptanalysis of\n Simple Substitution Ciphers\", Cryptologia, vol XVII Number 1, Jan 93\n p31-44.\n\n\n* What is the coding system used by VCR+?\n\n One very frequently asked question in sci.crypt is about how the VCR+ codes\n work. The following article attempts to describe it.", "\n Right on Keith, err, Kent. \n\n Whadda you mean, you didn't see the smiley?\n\n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ \n\nBob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM \n\nThey said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,\nand sank Manhattan out at sea.", "\n\nI hate to follow up to my own posting, but I should perhaps clarify\nsome things so I won't get flamed.\n\nFirst of all, when I'm talking about ``factoring the modulus'' or a\n``breakthrough in factoring'', what I really mean is a breakthrough in\nthe cryptanalysis of RSA. I know that factoring and breaking RSA are\nnot proven to be equivalent; it's just so damn convenient not to\nrepeat this every time.\n\nI also have to admit that I don't really know if the ``non-group''\nproperty of a cipher is essential only for key chaining. I have\nthought about it a little while, but I can't find a way that a\ncryptanalyst could exploit a group structure. That, of course, means\nnothing at all.\n\nThen I wrote,\n\n\nWhat I meant was that as long as the only advantage of the\ncryptanalyst is a faster computer, then we will probably have RSA for\na long time to come, because even if 1024-bit moduli somehow could be\nbroken with fast computers (not with a new algorithm), then people\nwould simply use longer moduli. Both users and cryptanalysts benefit\nfrom better technology in the same way.\n\nHope this keeps the flames away... Have fun.\n", "Summer Housing needed-at University of Washington, Seattle.\n----------------------------------------------------------\nHi\n\n I am looking for a place to stay for the summer \nat the University of Washington, Seattle, where I would be \ndoing an internship. If any of you from UofW Seattle, has \ngot some kind of space for summer sublet, please send an \nemail/call to me.\n\n I expect to start my internship in the first week \nof June.\n\n\n -Koshy George\n george@cs.umass.edu\n\nKoshy George,\n54, Puffton Village,\nAmherst, MA, 01002.\n413-549-7373 H\n413-545-2014 O", "\nThanks. I've ftp'ed the FAQ file and it is just what I was looking for.", "\n\nThis isn't true. Many people are forced to use the \"automobile system.\"\nI certainly don't use it by choice. If there were other ways of getting\naround, I'd do it.\n\n\nBut I think that the Court system has been refined--over hundreds of\nyears in the US, Britain, and other countries. We have tried to make\nit as fair as possible. Can it be made better (without removing the\ndeath penalty)? Besides, life imprisonment sounds like a fatal punishment\nto me.", "\n\nFor a brief, but pretty detailed account, try Hempel's _Philosophy of\nNatural Science_.\n\n\nThis smacks a bit of ideology -- the supposition being that Toricelli's\nsubsequent descriptions of his reasoning are not veridical. It gets dangerously\nclose to an unfalsifiable view of the history and methodology of science if\nwe deny that no subsequent reports of experimenters are reliable descriptions\nof their \"real\" reasons.\n\n\nBut my point is that this type of case is *not* a rarity. In fact, I was\ngoing to point to Pasteur as yet another rather common example -- particularly\nthe studies on spontaneous generation and fermentation. I will readily\nconcede that \"ridiculous reasons\" can play an important role in how\nscientists spend their time. But one should not confuse motivation with\nmethodology nor suppose that ridiculous reasons provide the impetus in the\nmajority of cases based on relatively infrequent anecdotal evidence.", "\nI do read Av Week and don't remember this. Could you supply the date\nof the magazine? As for C-17 vs. C-5 , the C-17 can't carry as much\nbut has more capability ( read : can land at smaller airfields of which\nthere are more of ) than the C-5. Now is the C-17 pork? It depends\non whether your job relies on it or not. :) In California right now,\nI would say that it is not pork since due to peace dividend so many \npeople are out of work. \n\n\nHuh? Shouldn't that read \"The question is whether a social-pork happy\nLes Aspin and Clinton will be able to face down a jobs-pork happy\nCongress.\"", "\nWrong on both accounts.\n\n\nNo one is a \"rioter\" until they participate in a \"riot\", which is \nunlikely to happen, now.\n\nMost of the *people* in L.A. are likely to have gotten up early to \nlisten to the court announcement.\n\n\nSorry to disappoint you, but this seems unlikely.\n\n\nI don't think he was told.\nHowever, his statement was still appropriate.\n\n\nJury duty is a solemn duty to be taken seriously. It is not meant \nto be a source of pride or instant fame.\n\n\nWell, the many *people* who got up early to go to the court to hear \nthe verdict found that justice was served. Given your dire and \ncynical predictions, I imagine that it is you who will be surprised. :-)\n\n\n", "\nWhere did you hear this? If it is printed in a book somewhere,\nthrow away the book. According to the MIT specs, only the first\n2 are true.\n", "\n\nWho has to consider it? The being that does the action? I'm still\nnot sure I know what you are trying to say.", "\nGreat speculation - I remember being proud on behalf of all the free\nworld (you think that way when you are seven years old) that we had\ngot there first. Now I'm almost sorry that it worked out that way.\n\nI guess the soviets would have taken the victory seriously too, and\nwould almost certainly not have fallen victim to the complacency that\novertook the US program. Perhaps stretching to match US efforts would\nhave destabilized them sooner than it did in fact - and in the tradition\nof Marvel Comics 'What If', this destabilization in the Brezhnev era might\nhave triggered the third world war. Hmm, maybe it was a giant leap after all.\n", "\n[it has to do with honoring the laws of the state, and]\n\nI would go further: if a couple are unwilling to have their commitment\npublicly witnessed and recorded, that's prima facie evidence that the\ncommitment isn't really there.\n\n\n", "\n\nYes, I have! Wasn't there a case of a single lion ruling all the land\nfrom South Africa up to Egypt across to the congo? If my memory serves\nme correctly there was enough game to feed some 100,000 or more lions but he\nwouldn't let the other lions hunt as he wanted it all himself.\n\nHe died of a heart attack brought on by being overweight.\n\nGood thing too as he had designs on Europe, America (north and south),\nand the Falkland Islands.\n\n\n", "\nI don't think such tools exist either. In addition, there's no such\nthing as objective information. All together, it looks like religion\nand any doctrines could be freely misused to whatever purpose.\n\nThis all reminds me of Descartes' whispering deamon. You can't trust\nanything. So why bother.\n\nCheers,\nKent", "\nThis question comes up frequently enough that there should be a faq\nabout it...", "\n Two institutions with absolute power. Cute.\n\n Let's talk practicality, shall we? If the Monarch tried to\ndo something, what would happen?\n \n\n But you illustrated the problem very well.\n\n\n I am contending that there is no state in the Union which does\nnot have ample wealth, if they choose to spend it, to run a perfectly\nacceptable Education system. (I further contend that the amount of money\nbeing spent now is more then sufficient, but is being spent badly.)\n\n\n So, tell me Phill. Were the Republicans also responsible for some\nof the *huge* increases in social programs? Or were they *only* \nresponsible for what you don't like. (I contend it is Congress which\nis to blame. Democrat and Republican alike.)\n\n\n Most of our worst areas are still better off than most of Europe.\nIn any case, we're talking about *education*. \n\n\n Yes, I live in once such area. You're woefully ignorant of the\nsituation.\n\n At the same time some of Tennessee's school districts are closing\ndown, the Governor asked for 7.5 million dollars for bicentenntial\ncelebration license plats. In almost the same breath he wanted to raise\nunemployment compensation and reduce taxes which paid into it.\n \n I don't know about the rest of the country, but *our* education\nproblems stem directly from two problems, neither of which are a lack\nof money in the state. (BTW, Tennessee is considered a \"tax heaven\"\nand our economy is one of the strongest in the country. *I* see\na correlation.) 1) What money we spend goes primarly to administration.\nThe average administrator makes two and a half times what the average\nteacher makes, and sucks up an enormous amount of revenue. And 2)\nthe Governor is making a concerted effort to create an \"Education crisis\"\nin order to push for his pet income tax. Some of the most idiotic\nprograms get funded (like State funds for new art in the county seat)\nwhile schools are closing. It's not a lack of funds. It's an\nunwillingness to spend them on what is more appropriate. Education\nis *the* parental hot-button. Education is *always* the first to\nbut cut, because it's easier to get people to pay for their children\nthan ugly art.\n\n\n It spoke very eloquently on government being based on the\nconsent of the governed. \n\n\n They did it anyway. The Continental Congress had its own set of\nbylaws. It wasn't quite a government, but a means of making decisions\nhad to be created. (However low George Washington's opinion of them were.)\n\n\n Allow me again to speak heresy against the Holy Democratic Orders.\nSo what? The government was built with a very non-democratic Presidency\nwith fairly broad powers, including the veto.\n\n\n Yes, and the Senate was intended to act as a balance to this.\nToo much democracy was intentionally avoided. It was considered a good\nthing to place non-democratic blocks to impulsive action.\n\n\n So long as Congress has something to sell, people will pay for\nit. Most congressmen rake in more money than they need.\n\n\n No, if the \"progressives\" don't want the \"reactionaries\" to move\nbackward, they get the same benefit. 41% of the states is a *lot* of\npeople. And historically laws with that sort of minority arent'\nvery effective, especially since it is usually geographically\nconcentrated.\n When wielding the Federal Big Stick I don't see why they shouldn't\nhave to make a better argument than, \"more people than not,\" agree.\n \n\n I'm not a Republican. I'm a republican. :-)\n \n And no, I'm neither a Democrat nor a democrat.\n \n Now, I've asked several times, and all you've done is answer\n\"It isn't democratic,\" which I knew before I said it. Why *should*\nit be democratic? We don't have a true direct democracy, and few\npeople advocate one. Why, then, is this other modification of\ndemocracy to bias it against action so much worse?\n", ":I'm not sure why you don't consider it an option. No one suggests that\n:such analysis should be left to \"regulators.\" In fact, the \"re-inventing\n:government\" movement provides just such a cost/benefit approach to the\n:analysis of public spending. Libertarians would do well to learn more\n:about it. \n\n\n\nOkay, let me try to explain this.\n\nWhen one votes for such a creature as a Senator or, worse yet, a President,\none votes not for specific policies but for a general package which must cover\nall issues for 4 or 6 years. As such, one's influence is highly diluted.\nI might add that, even if one were free to vote on individual regulations,\nthe vast amount of time required for considering a particular regulation,\ncombined with the very small chance of one's vote making a difference, would\nmake it unreasonable to expect the voter to make an intelligent decision\nwith respect to specific regulations. \n:Sorry, but it strikes me that it is the only \"feasible\" approach. What is\n:not feasible is a wholesale attack on all government regulation and \n:licensing that treats cutting hair and practicing medicine as equivalent\n:tasks.\n\nI'm not sure what you mean by \"feasible\" in this case. Do you mean that\n[] are impossible in priciple, or merely that it would be undesirable in\nfact?\n\n\n:Actually, the only areas of public spending above that strike me as \n:generating substantial support among libertarians are police and defense.\n\n2 of the four you saw fit to mention, and education of minors is always\nanother possibility, since minors are generally considered not to be\nresponsible to make their own decisions as adults are.\n\n:(It is an interesting aside that as committed as libertarians claim to\n:be to a principle of non-coercion, the only areas of public spending\n:that they frequently support involve hiring people with guns....hmmm...)\n\nYou say this as if it were surprising, yet in fact a necessary consequence\nof libertarian philosophy. All non-coersive functions should be dealt \nwith privately, therefore it follows that the only functions remaining to\nthe state are the coersive ones.\n\n:Perhaps you have. May I suggest that you consider that revolutionaries\n:frequently generate support by acting as protectors of \"geezers,\" \n:mothers and children. Governments that ignore such people on the grounds\n:that \"we don't have much to fear\" from them do so at their own peril.\n\nMuch more likely it's drunken teenagers. The groups in questionare more \nlikely\nto be worse off during and after a revolution than before. In the unlikely\nevent that you missed my earlier sarcasm, let me say this directly:\nThe idea that such programs as Social Security or AFDC should be considered\n\"defense\" (an idea which has been advanced in ths and other newsgroups) is\nso absurd a lie as to be unworthy of consideration. Do you seriously\ndispute this?\n\n\n\tI don't want to seem patronizing, but you still seem to be laboring\nunder the delusion that under a socialized economic system it is reasonably\nintelligent and honest persons (like yourself) who make the decisions.\nI feel any third party added to a transaction is every bit as likely to be\nignorant or corrupt as the buyer or seller. I don't expect you to agree\nwith me, but you explain why you feel I'm wrong?\n", "\n\n\nWhy shouldn't I mind? It sounds as if you are proceeding with just\nthe sort of obfuscation you have accused me of. I always preceeded\nmy statements with \"it is my understanding that...\" Now, I have made\nmy claim clear with regard to the issue of both the Twelve Imams and \nwith Khomeini's supposed claim of infalibility. After hearing your\nseemingly more knowledgable claim that Khomeini made no such claim\nregarding himself, I have withdrawn that portion of my statement\nregarding that claim. However, I have received _no_ such response\nregarding the infallibility of the Twelve Imams. There is nothing\nobfuscationist about my claims, which are always made clearly.\n \nI have received no such clear response regarding the Twelve Imams\nbut rather abstruse references to unusual metaphysical natures and \nother such opaque \"concepts\" often used by people to camoflage the \nbaselessness of their positions, particularly in matters of theology.\nThese are just the sorts of \"concepts\" used by Christian churches\nthe perverting of their religion. \n\n\nAlaikum Wassalam,", " Gaining entry into heaven cannot be done without first being cleansed by \n the blood of Jesus. \n Sin cannot dwell in heaven. It is against the natural laws of God. \n Being converted to christianity means being baptized by the Holy Spirit. \n You cannot get to heaven by good works only. \n Because of the union with the holy spirit, the man's behavior will change. \n If there is true union he will not desire to be homosexual. Fornication \n and homosexuality will leave your life if you are truly baptized by the \n holy spirit. It's not to say that we don't stumble now and then. \n \n", "\n\nYou are correct. See today's (4/21) Washington Post. The gas the\nFBI used is most certainly fatal in high concentrations. Of course,\nnon-toxic tear gas is an oxymoron; the whole point of tear gas is\nthat it is toxic, and its toxic effects cause people to seek\nfresh air.\n", "Quoting dougb@ecs.comm.mot.com in article <1993Apr26.150434.227@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com>:", "Non-smoking roommate needed\n to sublet\n 1BR in 2BR carpeted apt.\n in Evanston, IL\n near the Dempster el stop\n parking is available\n \nRent is $322.50/mo. + 1/2 utils.\n \n avail. May 1 - beg./end Aug.\n (entire apt. available Sept. 1)\n \nRoommate is 26 years-old, vegetarian,\n non-smoking female who works at\n Northwestern\n \n No neat freaks please!", "for SRC\n\nIn most languages, the Feast of the Resurrection of Our Lord is\nknown as the PASCH, or PASQUE, or some variation thereof, a word\nwhich comes from the Hebrew PESACH, meaning \"Passover.\" In English,\nGerman, and a few related languages, however, it is known as EASTER,\nor some variation thereof, and questions have been asked about the\norigin of this term.\n\nOne explanation is that given by the Venerable Bede in his DE\nRATIONE TEMPORUM 1:5, where he derives the word from the name of an\nAnglo-Saxon goddess of Spring called EASTRE. Bede is a great\nscholar, and it is natural to take his word for it. But he lived\n673-735, and Augustine began preaching in Kent in 597. The use of\nthe word EASTER to describe the Feast would have been well\nestablished before the birth of Bede and probably before the birth\nof anyone he might have discussed the subject with. It seems likely\nthat his derivation is just a guess, based on his awareness that\nthere had been an Anglo-Saxon goddess of Spring bearing that name,\nand the resemblance of the words. Thus, if the said resemblance\n(surely it is not surprising that a personification of Spring should\nhave a name similar to the word for Dawn) is not in istelf\nconvincing, the testimony (or rather the conjecture) by Bede does\nnot make it more so.\n\nAssuming that Bede was right, that would not justify saying that the\nChristian celebration (which, after all, had been going on for some\ncenturies before the name EASTER was applied to it) has pagan roots.\nIt would simply mean that the Anglo-Saxons, upon becoming Christians\nand beginning to celebrate the Resurrection by a festival every\nspring, called it by the name that to them meant simply \"Spring\nFestival.\"\n\nHowever, Bede's is not the only theory that has been proposed. J\nKnoblech, in \"Die Sprach,\" ZEITSCHRIFT FUER SPRACHWISSENSCHAFT 5\n(Vienna, 1959) 27-45, offers the following derivation:\n\nAmong Latin-speaking Christians, the week beginning with the Feast\nof the Resurrection was known as \"hebdomada alba\" (white week),\nsince the newly-baptized Christians were accustomed to wear their\nwhite baptismal robes throughout that week. Sometimes the week was\nreferred to simply as \"albae.\" Translaters rendering this into\nGerman mistook it for the plural of \"alba,\" meaning \"dawn.\" They\naccordingly rendered it as EOSTARUM, which is Old High German for\n\"dawn.\" This gave rise to the form EASTER in English.\n\n Yours,\n James Kiefer\n", "\nI think the point is being missed - that it is apparantly acceptable for\nBig Government (Big Brother?) to use TANKS to control the people, as\nlong as they don't use the BIG GUN (but everything else is allright...).\n\nTanks deployed against civilians, let alone FIRING on them with crew\nserved weaponry (a .50 Heavy Machine Gun is crew-served) is something\nboth our press and government howl about instantly when done in some\nother country. Against civilians that have, at most, one-shot-at-a-time\nLIGHT small arms. Certainly nothing that places the people in or behind\nthe tank in any real danger. Molotov coctails? A round from a rifle\nor pistol deals with anybody approaching with one of those. And \"snipers\"\ntoo often turn out to be strays from other cops/guard/army gunfire.\n\nI don't know about the other people in this group (or on the net) but\nthe idea of tanks being used to control civilians, in anything that\npretends to be a free society is outrageous. When Big Government feels\nit is necessary to use that kind of force to stomp out protests (even\nviolent) of the citizens, that suggests that the government is totally\nout of control, since that is effectively the government declaring war\non its own people. If the government was living up to its responsibility,\ngovernment of the people BY THE PEOPLE, not the 'lords' and other elites\nwho want to keep their good thing going, the citizens wouldn't feel the\nneed to be resorting to acts that need to be squashed with a military\nboot. People do things like that because they have become convinced\nthat it is the only option that remains, other attempts to have grievances\nredressed have been ignored. And yes, there is a criminal element that\nwill exploit this, but the fact remains that the government has been\nunresponsive or such acts wouldn't be apt to happen. Still not an excuse\nto open up on civilians with tanks, heavy machine guns, or whatever.\nIts the old 'might makes right' philosophy that is the hallmark of a\ngovernment going rogue: They don't like it? Tough. We will simply\nsquash them under an iron boot. Actually addressing their grievances\nin other than token fashion with huge volumes of hot air is just too\ninconvenient... Sort of a variation on mushroom management: Keep them\nin the dark, Smother them with shit, and Crush them when ready...\n\nAnd these are the folks that many liberals are trying to arrange things\nso that they will have a MONOPOLY on coercive force (firearms that are\nthan expensive toys...) by gutting the Bill of Rights (cuz it just isn't\nPROGRESSIVE or doesn't fit in with MODERN THINKING anymore)...\n\nUnbelievable.\n\nAnd I do believe amid the smoke, confusion, etc of a real riot situation,\nthat it would be POSSIBLE for a tank to get away with firing the main gun\ninto a building at close range? One would hear an explosion among many\nexplosions. It is loud, but it is not going to stand out like a 1000\npound bomb or a tactical nuke. There would be a hole blown in the wall,\nand some rubble, but with tanks knocking over walls, and other sources\nof buildings turning into rubble, and other covering racket such as\ngunfire, including 50's tacking away, it would not stand out that much,\nand could be explained by \"musta been a gas leak... \". I think it could be\ndone and not be reported under such conditions - it is POSSIBLE. It is\nnot like a tank driving down a quiet street on a Sunday afternoon, turning\nand firing, you know. THAT would stand out, and be pretty impossible\nto cover up.\n\n\n", "\n\n\tThat really depends upon where you draw the line while defining\nthese weapons, and also on if you intend the law to be reflective of\nmodern practice five months or five centuries down the road. I'll give\nyou a little hint: see that manure pile in the farmer's field down the\nroad? In the USA, that is a weapon of mass destruction, biological in\nnature, because if it gets washed into an open well it will contaminate\nthe aquifers that supply thousands of cities with drinking water. So,\nwhere do *you* draw the line? In the USA, the EPA has ruled that\na pile of scrap iron is illegal. Care to draw a thinner line this time?", "David Hammerslag asked:\n\n\tHow do you (Mormons) reconcile the idea of eternal marriage\n\twith Christ's statement that in the resurrection people will\n\tneither marry nor be given in marriage (Luke, chapt. 20)?\n\nSeveral explanations for this seeming contradiction have been proposed,\nbut most LDS scholars whose opinions I have studied take more or less\none of the following three positions:\n\n(1) Jesus was talking to a group of people (Sadducees) who were trying\n to trip Him up with what they felt was a silly hypothetical situa-\n tion that ridiculed the concept of a resurrection (something they\n didn't believe in). These people -- and those associated with them\n (\"Now there were with us seven brethren\", Matt. 22:25) -- would not\n be receptive to such higher blessings as eternal marriage. Hence,\n the people in the story would likely not be married in the eterni-\n ties; but that doesn't mean other, more faithful people could not\n have this blessing.\n\n(2) Jesus was making a distinction between the state or condition of\n =being= married, and the process of =becoming= married. The latter\n activity (marrying and giving in marriage) will not take place in\n the eternities, because all eternal marriages will be taken care of\n before then.\n\n(3) The account as we have it (in all three of the synoptic Gospels) is\n missing something that would make its real meaning clearer. Note\n that we (LDS) do not believe in Biblical inerrancy, so we do not in\n general feel obliged to reconcile each and every Bible text with\n modern revelation through Joseph Smith and other latter-day proph-\n ets. Nor are we particularly upset that the account in question\n was not significantly revised in the \"Joseph Smith Translation\" or\n \"Inspired Version\" of the Bible, since we do not believe this work\n was completed or that failure to revise a passage in the JST con-\n stitutes divine approval of that passage as it stands in the KJV.\n", "\nWhy? He, Reno, and the FBI got what they wanted -- a reminder of\nwho is the boss in America -- the thugs who work for the government.", "t\n\n\nThe original poster never said they were afraid of King because he was\nblack. In fact the officers were afraid of King because of WHAT HE DID,\nnot because OF THE COLOR OF HIS SKIN. It is you, Mr. Frank that read the\nphrase \"large black man\" and cried racism in a typical knee-jerk fashion.\nWhen you (and others, I suspect) can get past this problem maybe the real\nproblems in this issue can be discussed.", "pprun@august.it.uswc.uswe\n\nUnites States Senate\nWashington, D.C. 20510\n\nThe House of Representatives\nWashington, D.C. 20515\n\nThe White House\nWashington, D.C. 20500\n\n-Seth\n\n__________________________________________________________________________\n[unlike cats] dogs NEVER scratch you when you wash them. They just\nbecome very sad and try to figure out what they did wrong. -Dave Barry", "\n\n\n\nWe might be better off had some of our former presidents done nothing.\n\n\n\n", "\nIf I remember correctly Prometheus books have this one in stock,\nso just call them and ask for the book.\n\nCheers,\nKent", "speaking of the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin:\n\n\nYes. For examples of this in the writings of the early fathers, consider:\n\n You alone and your Mother\n are more beautiful than any others;\n For there is no blemish in you,\n nor any stains upon your Mother.\n Who of my children\n can compare in beauty to these?\n -- St. Ephrem the Syrian, Nisibene Hymns, 27:8, around\n A.D. 370\n\n Lift me up not from Sara but from Mary, a Virgin not only undefiled \n but a Virgin whom grace has made inviolate, free of every stain of sin.\n -- St. Ambrose, \"Commentary on Psalm 118\", 22:30, ca. A.D. 388\n\nThere are many others.\n\n\nNo. We have, for instance:\n\n Was there ever anyone of any breeding who dared to speak the name of\n Holy Mary, and being questioned, did not immediately add, \"the Virgin\"?\n ... And to Holy Mary, Virgin is invariably added, for that Holy Woman\n remains undefiled.\n -- St. Epiphanus of Salamis, \"Panacea against all heresies\",\n between A.D. 374-377.\n\n We surely cannot deny that you were right in correcting the doctrine\n about children of Mary ... For the Lord Jesus would not have chosen\n to be born of a virgin if He had judged that she would be so incontinent\n as to taint the birthplace of the Body of the Lord, home of the Eternal\n King, with the seed of human intercourse. Anyone who proposes this is\n merely proposing ... that Christ could not be born of a virgin.\n -- Pope St. Siricius, Letter to Anysius, Bishop of \n Thessalonica, A.D. 392\n\nNote that St. Augustine's conversion to Christianity was in A.D. 387. I\ndon't know offhand when his election as bishop of Hippo was, but I'm quite\nsure it was after 392. The belief in Mary's perpetual virginity originated\nlong before Augustine's time. We hold that it originated with the \nApostles.\n\nStrictly speaking, however, Mary's perpetual virginity is independent\nof her Immaculate Conception. Mary could have been Immaculately \nConceived and not remained a virgin; she could have remained a virgin\nand not been Immaculately Conceived.\n\n\nNo. It has been held in the Church since ancient times that original\nsin was transmitted at conception, when a person's life begins.\nBiology had nothing to do with it. Prayerfully reflecting on the\ntruth of Mary's sinlessness, and the means by which God could have\nachieved this, the Church arrived at the truth of the Immaculate\nConception. Thus, the Immaculate Conception is not a new doctrine,\nbut the logical result of our understanding of two old ones.\n\nThe celebration of the Feast of the Immaculate Conception itself was\ngiven by Pope Sixtus IV (1471-84) and the Feast was made a precept\nfeast of the Church by Pope Clement XI (1700-21).\n\n\nNo. First of all, Lourdes is private revelation, and doctrine is not\nbased on private revelation. The most that private revelation can do\nis enhance and deepen our understanding of existing public revelation,\nwhich ended with the death of St. John the Apostle.\n\nSecond, the \"case for the doctrine\" was irreformably sealed in 1854 \nwith the ex cathedra promulgation of the Bull \"Ineffabilis Deus\" by\nPope Pius IX. This meant that the doctrine was formally recognized as\na dogma; a dogma, by definition, cannot change and is required to be\nbelieved by the faithful.\n\nThe apparition at Lourdes happened in 1858, four years later. The most\nthat might be claimed is that Lourdes gave the infallible proclamation\nof 1854 a sort of heavenly stamp of approval, but the Church has never\nclaimed that, nor shall she.\n\nIn Christ's Peace,\n\nBrad Kaiser\n(bradk@isdgsm.eurpd.csg.mot.com)", "\n Only guessing, but from his address I'd say that Jerry, like\n me, lives in Canada. Unlike me, he thinks that our friends in\n the US enjoy the same freedom that we do, and he has not seen\n the slow but steady erosion to the south of us.\n\n We have the benefit of relatively slow politicians and\n ineffective law enforcement. Our rednecks tend to be the\n objects of derision rather than elected officials. It's\n everything LE can do to keep up with the real criminals. Any\n time they actually go after somebody just because they don't\n like his or her attitude, it's national news (It also often\n blows up in their faces: eg. the well-intentioned but flawed\n Zundel case, which resulted in a scolding from the Supreme\n Court, not only to LE for prosecuting the case but to\n Parliament for passing the law it was prosecuted under).\n\n Our friends south of the border don't have as easy a time of\n it. Among other things they have as many LE agencies as we\n have agencies, and some of them have teeth. They also have the\n War on Drugs which gives law-enforcement agencies exceptional\n powers to ignore individuals' rights (the DEA has more\n arbitrary power than that given to Canadian agencies under the\n War Measures Act). We have the RCMP and CSIS who can't stop\n fighting each other long enough to do any really effective\n suppression of private citizens' rights. Not only that, our\n Police Commissions have teeth, as I learned when I had to fend\n off a bent cop.\n\n It may be ironic that the nation founded on Life, Liberty and\n the Pursuit of Happiness is getting government-imposed order,\n while the nation founded on Peace, Order and Good Government\n is getting in-your-face liberty.\n\n That's not to say our time won't come. It looks like Chretien\n is going to run on a law-and-order platform. Be afraid.\n\n Cheers,\n Marc\n\n---\n Marc Thibault | marc@tanda.isis.org\n Automation Architect | CIS:71441,2226\n R.R.1, Oxford Mills, Ontario, Canada | NC FreeNet: aa185", "\nThrow away the FAQ. We can all just ask Mr O'Dwyer, since he can\ndefine the thing that the rest of us only talk about.", "\n\n\nOk, here could be the first question or answer or something:\n\nQ: I want to copyprotect a program I wrote. How should I do it?\nA: You would be wise not to copyprotect that program. You see, those \n people that wants to get a cracked copy of your program will go to \n various length to crack your program, and some of those crackers \n are good, and know the common tricks.\n So, the copy protection wouldn't stop those.\n Ok, then. What about legitimate users? Copy protection can be a hassle\n for legitimate users, and can hinder them in their work, expecially\n if there is some \"key\" item that can get lost.\n So, the copy protection wouldn't help much of the legitimate users, but\n would make life somewhat of a misery for them.\n\n\n\n(This is my opinion, and I speak as a legitimate user :-)\nYou are of course free to have your opinion about this subject....\n\n\n", "\nThere is no need to include the VAT from previous levels because\nthe VAT is a \"difference\" tax...if the VAT is X%, than the amount\nof tax the government receives through all the levels is X% of\nthe purchase price of the end consumer. At the intervening levels,\nonly the difference between the VAT paid out and the VAT received\nis remitted to the government.\n\n\nA VAT is infinitely preferable to a retail sails tax...", "The Quantum BBS number is 408-894-3214. Good luck.\n\nLes\n\n\n", "CJF> agrino@enkidu.mic.cl (Andres Grino Brandt) asks about Mormons.\n\nCJF> Although I don't personally know about independent sudies, I do know\nCJF> a few things.\n\n\nCJF> One of the more amusing things in the BOM is a claim that a\nCJF> civilization existed in North America, aroun where the mystical plates\nCJF> were found. Not only did it use steel and other metals, but it had\nCJF> lots of wars (very OT). No one has ever found any metal swords or\nCJF> and traces of a civilization other than the Native Americans.\n\nI was talking to the head of the archeology dept. once in college and\nthe topic of Mormon archeology came up. It seems that the Mormon church\nis (or was) big on giving grants to archeologists to prove that the\nnative Americans are really the lost tribe of Israel and other such\nbunk. The archeologists would shake their head knowingly while listening\nto them, take the grant, and go off to do real archeology anyway.\n", "\nAll very true. I'm going on what I have read and heard from friends.\nBasically the Glock is great but I have heard/read that it is a lot harder to\nlearn proper handling because of the type of safety that it has. I was\nlooking at a Glock .40S&W and the S&W 4006 a couple of weeks ago and the\nsafties on the guns were very different. The saftey on the 4006 seemed a lot\nmore \"safe\" (for lack of a better word) than the one on the Glock. Of course\nthis could also be a bad thing if you were to pull the gun on somebody. You\nwould spend more time fiddling around turning the safety off. Personally I\nlike the Glocks because they are very light and I think they look really cool\n(guess that's why they use them in so many movies) but I wouldn't get one as\nmy first semi-auto because of the safety. I would prefer more training with\na \"traditional\" semi-auto (ala Colt .45) but of course that's just my opinion.", "Squirrel Hill Studio/Efficiency available in mid May. My lease is expiring on \n7/31/93. Perfect for someone looking for temporary housing or someone\nwho wants\nto stay beyond July.\n\n- Nice short walk to CMU\n\n- $325/month\n\n- Plenty of parking space on street\n\n- Quiet neighborhood\n\n- nearly new carpet", "\nThe entire business of a Bank is the management of risk. That's\nwhat a Bank is for. That's what people who work for Banks do.\n\n\nOK, but in that case why are you posting about it? What I\nhear you saying is \"I don't understand this stuff, but if Islam\nsays it's so, it's so\".\n", "\n\nNo, what it means is that I, like a majority of environmental scientists/researchers,\nagree that El Nino/La Nina and the Southern Oscillations are the systems\ninvoloved in that climatic phenomena categorized by humans as a drought(1988).\n\nFurthermore, in response to an earlier message, the 1992 U.S. est. output of\nsulfur dioxide (20 mill. tons) was equivalent to the entire output by the recent\neruption of Mt. Pinautubo(Sp.). Currently world carbon dioxide levels set at approx.\n360 ppm, in the past 120,000 years it has never gone above 280 (this info\nwas found using ice core samples from the joint French/Russian/U.S. Vostok\nproject). Furthermore, the background emmisions of chlorine compounds into\nthe atmoshpere is about 0.6 ppb annually, it now sits at 3.5. This OVERWHELMING\ndata/info is found in the World Resources doc. published by Oxford University.\n\nThe ozone hole in the Northern and Southern Hemispheres keeps getting bigger\nand stickin' around longer whilst skeptics ponder how wrong or corrupt all this\ndata from government and international scientific institutions is. It is a pity, that,\nif the skeptics are wrong and we base our complacency on their Limbaugh\npsycho babble, then we will find ourselves strapped by limited options with\nwhich to rectify the primal engineering of our industrial age.", "\n\n\n\nHe also ignores a few other things. While organics would become\nsignificantly more expensive were all the oil to disappear (and thus\nsome things would no longer be economically feasible), oil is hardly\nan irreplaceable resource any more than most other consumables. As\nsupply decreases, prices rise and alternatives become more\ncompetetive. He also needs to consider that there has been an\nestimated 30 years of reserves pretty much as long as anyone has cared\nabout petroleum; whatever the current usage rate is, we always seem to\nhave about a 30 year reserve that we know about.\n\n[I'm not sure that last figure is still true -- we tend not to look as\nhard when prices are comparatively cheap -- but it was certainly true\nduring hte 'oil crisis' days of the 70's.]\n\n-- \n\"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live\n in the real world.\" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden", "\n\nConsidering the magnitude of loss of life in both the Moro Castle\nand Titanic disasters, I can't believe you can be so blithe\nthere fred.\n\nBesides if a LNG tanker breaks up in a close harbor, you can kiss\noff quite a lot of population. same thing for any chemical\ntankers.\n\nI know the coast guard makes mandatory safety equipment\nchecks on all watercraft. they use this as an excuse to\nmake narcotics searches, without warrants.\n\nI suspect, that commercial craft need a certificate at least similiar\nin scope to an air worthiness certificate from the DOT.", "=|> \n=|> >I think that's the correct spelling..\n=|> >\tI am looking for any information/supplies that will allow\n=|> >do-it-yourselfers to take Krillean Pictures. I'm thinking\n=|> >that education suppliers for schools might have a appartus for\n=|> >sale, but I don't know any of the companies. Any info is greatly\n=|> >appreciated.\n=|> \n=|> Krillean photography involves taking pictures of minute decapods resident in \n=|> the seas surrounding the antarctic. Or pictures taken by them, perhaps.\n=|> \n=|> Bill from oz\n=|> \n=\n=\n=Bill,\n=No flame intended but you're way, way off base. In simple terms Kirilian\n=photography registers the electromagnetical fields around objects, in simple,\n=it takes pictures of your aura.\n\nGreg: Flame definitely intended here. Bill was making fun of the misspelling. \nGo look up the word \"krill.\" Also, the correct spelling is Kirlian. It\ninvolves taking photographs of corona discharges created by attaching the\nsubject to a high-voltage source, not of some \"aura.\" It works equally well\nwith inanimate objects.\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nCarl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL", "Who wants to look through the bars at some reactionary Liberal conspiracy-\ntheory idiots and see how they rant and rave at the erosion of their populist \nsupport? This is very typical of the elitist Liberal attitude that The People \nare incapable of thinking for themselves. This elitist attitude will be the\neventual undoing of the arrogant liberal tide sweeping America, as The People\nbegin to realize more and more that they are being treated like errant children\nand robbed of their freedoms by a bunch of Utopian arrogent socialist jerks.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nAlthough I find myself often disagreeing with the populist rationale\nof Mr. Limbaugh, I find him entertaining and I often agree with his \nconclusions. The fact that he sends liberal reactionaries like these\nidiots through the roof makes him all the more entertaining.\n\n\n\n\nActually, I find Limbaugh's oratory less than sizzling and his debating\nskills sometimes lacking, even though his conclusions are often correct.\n\nI would suggest that a bankrupt leftist ideology that hopes to use concentrated \npolitical power and a loaded gun to force everyone to do the \"right\" things\n(where \"right\" is defined by the elitist academics who lead the movement)\nis showing an acute case of \"myopic social perspective\", not to mention\narrogance and utter stupidity.\n\nLimbaugh is certainly far from perfect, but his opponents in the established\nbody politic and the media are the ones arguing for Federal control of\nvirtually all aspects of the lives of the Citizenry, and for the elimination\nof local control over Affairs Public. \n\nPerhaps Limbaugh has a following because The People are tired of being treated \nlike errant children by a self-important group of arrogant controlling myopic \npeople who have no understanding of how life operates outside of the \"oughta-be's\"\ninside their own hopelessly closed minds.\n\n\n\n\nOK, let us take your word for that and work with it. A nice specific\nincident.\n\n\n\n\nHmmm, \"Congress shall pass no law regarding an establishment of religion,\nnor prohibiting the free exercise thereof.\" Liberal translation: \"the\nfederal government (as long as it is run by Liberals) may force local\nschool districts to include certain iconic content in Christmas displays,\nwhile prohibiting others.\"\n\nI think Limbaugh has you on this one. It seems to me that he is arguing\nfor LESS imposition of the federal government into religion.\n\nNice job on the specificity of that one, too.\n\n\n\n[Analysis of historical/modern communication media deleted] \n\n\nAh yes, it is a conspiracy of profound proportions. Methinks that you\nmay be a bit resentful of Mr. Limbaugh's success because you attribute it\nprimarily to luck (how, after all, could anyone with profound differences\nof opinion from yourself have become successful without the operation of\nconspiracy or blind luck!) Do you feel this same level of knee-jerk\nresentment against lottery winners, or do you congratulate them on their\ngood fortune?\n\n\n\n\nThis should be great fun, since it is the Liberal movement in America\nthat is pushing the hardest for centralized fascist control of The People\nand business (government/business 'partnership' indeed), and Mr. Limbaugh \nis the populist nemesis of that movement.\n\nI have read Mr. Limbaugh's book, and although it was not the most literary\npiece I have read in recent memory it certainly did not contain \"venom\"\nat all, let alone \"venom\" comparable to an individual who callously murdered\nmillions out of racism.\n\n\n\n\nA very serious tone in that oratory.\n\n\n\n\nYou neglect to mention that Mr. Limbaugh (have you ever listened to his show, \nBTW?) continuously encourages his audience to think for themselves rather\nthan blindly following any media icon, himself included. You yourself mention \nthat he makes no bones about his show being strictly about his own opinions.\nHe also adopts a rather satirical approach, and presumes his audience to be\nintelligent enough to distinguish satire from seriousness (and he says as much).\nThis is in contrast to the average mass-media show, in which the audience is\ntreated as society's intellectual lowest common denominator.\n\nI am sure that Adolf Hitler was a master of satire; I am sure he was just\nkidding when he said that the Jews were the cause of Germany's problems and\nneeded to be exterminated.\n\n\n\n\nThis is not religion, it is clearly a perverse worship of race. Since\nChrist was a Jew, it seems quite unlikely that Hitler's characterization of\nthe Aryan as \"the highest image of the Lord\" fits with Christian doctrine.\n\n\n\n\nPrivate religious schools have a vastly better record of success than\npublicly funded schools. American history is indeed primarily Judeo-\nChristian. I suppose that Mr. Limbaugh pointing out facts is equivalent\nto Adolf Hitler worshiping the Aryan race. I think you might be reaching\njust a wee bit here.\n\n\n\n\nDefinite suggestion that the government should control the entertainment\nindustry here.\n\n\n\nJust a guess here, but I don't think that Mr. Limbaugh would advocate\ngovernment control of Hollywood. You should perhaps call his radio show\nto confirm this. I believe this is more a criticism of Hollywood and the\ndepraved moral values it espouses, not an advocation of government control \nof Hollywood.\n\n90's Liberals, on the other hand, want to have complete government control \nof our school systems, so that the government can teach The People at an\nearly age the \"right\" way to view religion and morality. I believe Mr. \nLimbaugh is against this, as his satirical use of the \"young heads full\nof mush\" hyperbole indicates.\n\n\n\n\nPretty strong conspiracy theory insinuated here, with an implicit plea for\ngovernment power to be used to break up the conspiracy.\n\n\n\n\nIndication here that \"Elements of the Media\" (since career is a self-selected\ncategorization, perhaps an inferred 'larger percentage than represented in\nthe populace at large') has a leftist bias. Doesn't sound too unreasonable.\nNo insinuation that CNN should not report in an objective fashion, only\nthat for reporters to say that they do not have any personal bias in the\nsituation is disingenuous to megalomaniacal.\n\nYou may disagree, and it may well be exagerrated, but it is not an unreasonable \nopinion; and Mr. Limbaugh goes well out of his way to make sure that his \naudience knows that these are his opinions, unlike most other reporting that \npurports to achieve perfect objectivity but in actuality will in some degree \nor other, in a statistical sense, reflect the biases of the reporters. Who \nis being disingenuous here, Mr. Shaw or Mr. Limbaugh?\n\nAgain, you should ask Mr. Limbaugh himself, but I expect that he would\noppose government control of the media.\n\n\n\n \n\nIt is indeed depressing to see such myopia and tiresome Liberal arrogance.\nLiberals love to play games with paradigms as a way of discrediting people\nwho disagree with them. Why don't you challenge conservative ideology\non an intellectual level rather than engaging in ludicrous comparisons?\nPerhaps the underpinnings of your ideology are intellectual only in that\nthey exist in your mind, not the real world.\n\n\n\n\nPerhaps there are a few among the intellectually challenged who percieve\nRush Limbaugh as a hate-monger, but in my experience he has been spreading\nlaughter at the ludicrous self-importance of the Left, not hatred.\n\nAs to Mr. Bush, you may be correct about his fascist economic leanings.\nMr. Reagan, on the other hand, did his best to reverse the fascist trend\nof government involvement in business. Mr. Clinton is increasing fascism\nin America through \"business/government partnership\" and increased levels\nof taxation. Perhaps you should not have skipped your vocabulary classes\nin grade school.\n\n\n\n\nHmmm. Seems to me that Limbaugh is not in any way comparable to Hitler\nbecause he has not murdered six million Jews and many, many others out of\nracism. I come from a mixed-race family, so I am quite well attuned to\nracism; I don't hear any coming from Rush Limbaugh. The only place I hear \nracism coming from these days and being taken seriously is from the Liberal \nLeft.\n\nThe Liberal Left is the movement I see trying to get America hooked\non the opiates of Socialized Medicine, Socialized Transportation, Socialized\nEducation, etc. The Left already has America hopelessly addicted to \nthat Liberal drug, the Social Security Chain Letter. It is quite clear\nto me that while the Hitler analogy does not really apply to either Rush \nLimbaugh or William Jefferson Clinton, if one of the two is closer than \nthe other it is clearly the Fascist Clinton.\n\n\n\nThis is the same address as \"Idiots Anonymous\", isn't it?\n\n\nMatt Freivald\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\nLiBORGalism:\n THINKING IS IRRELEVANT. INTEGRITY IS IRRELEVANT.\n FREE SPEECH IS IRRELEVANT. PRIVATE PROPERTY IS IRRELEVANT.\n PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY IS IRRELEVANT.\n CONSERVATIVISM IS FUTILE.\n YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED.\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTHESE ARE MY OPINIONS ONLY AND NOT THOSE OF MY EMPLOYER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!", " [Most of tirade deleted .. I have an editor and know how to use it] \n\n Either this is an example of *great* sarcasm or I'm really, really worried.\n", "\n\nOK, I should have said \"former\" enemy. I was being sarcastic about what\ninterventionists want to do.\n\n\nCould we back him without forcing others to back him at the point of a\ngun?\n\nHave you considered a non-interventionist policy? If market reform does\nhappen, Russia will certainly get *private* capital at *private* risk to\nhelp their economy. They will even have incentive to do so for the same\nreason. If they don't reform, then our government will probably\nconsider them enemies anyway and rather spend money to hurt rather than help\nthem.\n\nThen their's the ideological point. We want to \"win\" Russia over to\nour type of government -- a type where the rulers can rule without limit\nover everyone's finances?\n\n\n\n\nIf a $1.6 billion gift was that important to our well being, couldn't it\nbe raised voluntarilly? People already give over $100 billion a year to\ncharity.\n\n\n\nIt seems instead of gridlock on any scale, we have aid to Russia,\nexpensive space programs, national charity that doesn't help the poor,\nand probably, studies of drunken goldfish. I think *limited* government\nis more key than how democratic it is.\n\n\nThat was an opinion, and libertarians are very big on free speech.\n\n\nIf you are pretty libertarian except on this one issue then you should\nbe VERY libertarian. Consider it a compromise. How much money would\nyour fellow Russia-aiders have to give to Russia if those you oppose\nweren't using the same government machine to steal money from you\nand your group for causes you don't support?\n\n\nPeople have been saying that for hundreds of years.\n\n\nAll the more reason to depend on the free market which can more\nefficiently process information, than to depend on rulers for decisions\non complex issues.\n\n\nRoger Collins", "\nIf we had backed him strongly early on I doubt there would be the\nproblem there is now. Many Russians became disillusioned with democracy\nand reforms when they felt, rightly IMO, that the West didn't care.\n\nYeltsin was virtually promised massive aid (once Bush got over his\nGorby-mania.) This probably kept him from dismantling the congress\nand calling for new elections. Well, the aid didn't come through\nand we didn't make sure it went to the proper places and now the\nanti-reformers are gaining strength where before they were in\nhiding.\n\n\nIf they don't reform I don't believe in giving them money. However,\nI think this is too important to take a non-interventionist approach.\nThis is what really bugs me about Libertarianism -- it sounds like\n'it'll all be the same in a hundred years time. no need to do\nanything.'\n\nDespite the wishes of Libertarians, this society is a far way, and getting\nfarther, from being Libertarian. Perhaps voluntary gifts would work if\nwe had the proper framework but we do not have it. We have to face the\nproblem *now*, not in X years when we have a Libertarian dream society.\n\nRight now there are huge stumbling blocks to trade, let alone charity.\nThere are still limitations to high-tech exports. NASA can't buy\nProton launch vehicles from them. Sure, the market may be able to\nhelp a great deal but it can't right now. There are too many obstacles.\nInstead of fighting against the aid you should be fighting to \ntear down the obstacles the market and charities have to face.\n\nWell, I think limited government is primarily democratic due\nto it being limited. But the main question is how do you transform\na state-run economy and monolithic government into something that\neven remotely looks like ours? (BTW, sometimes it seems that our government \nis trying to go the opposite direction) It is not going to be\npainless and not going to be easy. We simply cannot wait to\nhelp when they *have* the 'proper' government. They'll never\nget there without the aid. It may be too late already.\n\n\nAnd I'm just excercising mine.\n\n\nAs I also said above, another problem I have is with *transformation*.\nA Libertarian society is not going to happen painlessly or overnight.\nI have seen nothing about how to take our current government and\nsociety and turn it into a minimal government and a responsible\nself-sufficient populace. \n\n\nThey didn't have nuclear weapons 100 years ago. Nor instantaneous\ncommunications nor travel to virtually anyplace on the earth in\nless than a day.\n\n\nYes, depend on the rulers of the free market and the businesses. Rulers\ndo emerge *somewhere* and they will never represent the opinions of\nevery person on the planet. \n\nThere must be checks and balances. Checks on the government when\nit gets out of bounds and checks on industry when it gets out of\nbounds. Putting all your hopes on the benevolence of the market\nis, to me, just like putting all your hopes on the benevolence of\ngovernment. ", "THE WHITE HOUSE\n\n Office of the Press Secretary\n_____________________________________________________________________\nFor Immediate Release April 15, 1993\n\n\n PRESS BRIEFING\n BY DEE DEE MYERS\n\n\t \n The Briefing Room\n\n\n9:45 A.M. EDT\n\n\t \t \n\t Q\t Why was the 10:00 a.m. postponed? \n\t \t \n\t MS. MYERS: Just due to scheduling conflicts. So as we \nput out, the President will meet with the leaders of the national \npolice organizations at 2:00 p.m. in the Rose Garden, as opposed to \n10:00 a.m. The only other things on his schedule today are: At \n11:00 a.m. he'll meet with General Vessey, who, as you know, is on \nhis way to Vietnam to continue working on the MIA-POW issue. At \n12:30 p.m. he'll have lunch with the Vice President in the Oval \nOffice. And at 2:00 p.m. he'll meet with the police organizations.\nThen from 3:00 p.m. to 4:00 p.m. he'll do his weekly photos with the \nvarious groups.\n\t \n\t Q\t A photo op with Vessey?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: There's no coverage on the Vessey meeting.\n\t \n\t Q\t Why?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Why? It's a closed meeting. \n\t \n\t Q\t What about the lunch?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: The lunch? No, there's no coverage.\n\t \n\t Q\t Is he meeting with any congress people today?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Nothing scheduled.\n\t \n\t Q\t There are no meetings --\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: There are no congressional meetings today, \nno.\n\t \n\t Q\t Has the President been given any information by the \nPentagon or reached any conclusion about the validity of this report \nfrom Hanoi? Any instructions to Vessey on how to deal with the \nVietnamese on that subject?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Well, clearly, the report is the first order \nof business. It's high on the agenda on something that they'll \ndiscuss. I think the President and General Vessey will discuss the \nparameters of his visit to Vietnam today, but the President hasn't \ndrawn any conclusions about the report yet. Certainly, it's \nsomething that he wants General Vessey to talk with the Vietnamese \nabout first.\n\t \n\t Q\t Did the President talk with any Republican senators \nyesterday about the stimulus package?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: He spoke with Senator Dole.\n\t \n\t Q\t How many times?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I believe once during the day and once last \nnight.\n\t \n\t Q\t What was the outcome of that?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: They're continuing to work toward some kind \nof an agreement on a jobs package.\n\t \n\t Q\t Is it your impression that Senator Dole is in any \nway flexible on this?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Well, I think we're hopeful that we're going \nto get some kind of jobs package through the Senate, and we'll \ncontinue to work with Senator Dole and others until we reach some \nkind of an agreement.\n\t \n\t Q\t Did they discuss the VAT tax?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I don't know if that came up.\n\t \n\t Q\t Can you check that?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Sure.\n\n\t Q\t So what are they -- is the President offering to \nscale down his program -- is that what he's trying to do, buy it down \nto where Dole will sign on?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Well, he's trying to protect as much of it \nas he can. But it's important to him to get some kind of a jobs \npackage through the Senate and through Congress now. And as soon as \nwe reach some conclusions on that, we'll let you know. But at the \nmoment, he's continuing to consult with members of Congress \nincluding, obviously, Senator Dole.\n\t \n\t Q\t Is he talking to anybody else?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I don't believe he talked to any other \nRepublicans yesterday.\n\t \n\t Q\t Is he talking to anybody today?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I don't think anything is scheduled, but I \nwouldn't rule it out.\n\t \n\t Q\t We were led to believe that the President called \nMr. Dole on the subject of Russian aid and that Bob Dole brought the \nconversation around to stimulus package. Is that correct?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I think the President has contacted several \npeople on Russian aid. I think that it was always expected that the \nstimulus package or the jobs package will be part of any conversation \nhe would have with Senator Dole. The primary objective of the \nconversation was Russian aid. That was the first order of business, \nbut it was both.\n\t \n\t Q\t In the President's mind, are they linked \npolitically in that if the Republicans continue to reject the \nstimulus package, he thinks it will be harder to sell Russian aid to \nthe American people? Has he made that argument?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I can't talk about specifically what \narguments he might have made. The President is obviously committed \nto both. He liked to see a jobs package to the American people \nfirst. But as you know, we outlined the details of additional \nRussian aid last night in Tokyo.\n\t \n\t Q\t But does the President believe that the stimulus \npackage will make it more difficult to persuade Americans to vote for \nRussian -- to accept a vote for Russian aid?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I think that the President is going to \ncontinue to work to pass the stimulus package, to pass a jobs \npackage, and we're still hopeful that we'll get some kind of jobs \npackage through the Congress.\n\t \n\t Q\t Is it fair to say that the President is negotiating \nnow with Dole?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: He's discussing options with him.\n\t \n\t Q\t On the stimulus, is it your understanding that over \nthe break some Democrats, themselves, have left the support that they \nhad earlier for the package, the stimulus package?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I think we still have wide support in the \nSenate for the jobs package.\n\t \n\t Q\t But specifically, that you've lost Democrats other \nthan Shelby?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I don't believe so. There hasn't been a \nvote.\n\t \n\t Q\t What about Kohl?\n\t \n\t Q\t Kohl and Feingold?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: There hasn't been a vote yet. And we'll \ncontinue to work with senators to try to get a majority to try to \nbring the package to a vote, because we believe that a majority of \nthe members of the United States Senate support the package.\n\t \n\t Q\t If you're weren't worried about Kohl and Feingold, \nwhy did George mention Milwaukee projects the other day?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I think George pointed out a number of \nprojects in a number of states that stand to be funded, or to lose \nfunding if this jobs package doesn't pass.\n\t \n\t Q\t No Democrats. (Laughter.)\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I'll let you draw your own conclusions.\n\t \n\t Q\t Does he plan to talk to Dole again today or any \nother Republicans again today?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: There's nothing specifically scheduled, but \nagain, I wouldn't rule it out.\n\t \n\t Q\t Does he plan to put out any more press releases to \nany other states today?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: What we've done is we're in the process of \nbreaking down the benefits of the jobs package state by state. I \nthink it's entirely feasible that as we sort of are able to sum those \nup, we'll send out press releases to the various states that suggest \nhow their states would benefit from this package.\n\t \n\t Q\t Will you share those with us?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Sure. As we did yesterday.\n\t \n\t Q\t Do you have copies of the ones you sent --\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Yes, we made those available yesterday. And \nwe certainly can continue to provide them today.\n\t \n\t Q\t Dee Dee, since yesterday's questions and subsequent \nstories about the VAT, what further consideration of this issue has \nbeen given?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Nothing's changed since yesterday. I think \nthe President commented on it this morning to say only that it was \nsomething he knew was being considered by the task force and that he \nhas not made a decision on, and I don't think we have anything to add \nto that.\n\t \n\t Q\t But he also said that business and labor groups are \ntelling him they support it. Can you tell us --\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I think that there has been -- I'm not going \nto speculate on who supports it. I think the President said that \nthere has been some support among business and labor groups. I don't \nthink he said he was directly contacted by them.\n\t \n\t Q\t Are we to take that to mean that the administration \nhas sounded out business and labor groups on this --\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I think there's been plenty of public \ndiscourse on this over the years and even recently, but I don't think \nI want to add to that.\n\t \n\t Q\t In February, though, the President said that this \nwas something to be considered 10 or 15 years down the road. What \nhas happened between then and now to cause this administration to \nchange its mind?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I think as we said yesterday, it is \nsomething that the working groups are looking at. They're \nconsidering a wide variety of options on everything from funding to \nspecific options that will be covered by the President's health care \nplan. The President has not taken it up yet, has not made a decision \non it. And beyond that, I don't have anything to add.\n\t \n\t Q\t You haven't answered the question. It wasn't being \nconsidered by anyone in the White House after the President's \ncomments in February, and George reaffirmed that in a briefing.\n\t \n\t Q\t And then suddenly --\n\t \n\t Q\t What happened?\n\n\t MS. MYERS: The working groups, as we have said \nthroughout, we instructed to consider a wide variety of options \nacross-the-board. And one of the things that has been talked about \nand that they are clearly considering is some kind of a value-added \ntax.\n\n\t Q\t But the President himself took this off the table, \nDee Dee, and suddenly it reappears. And this goes to the credibility \nof this administration in a way. What has happened in the meantime?\n\n\t MS. MYERS: The President has not looked at this, it \nhasn't been presented to him, again, yet. The working groups are \nlooking at it, as they're looking at a wide variety of options, and \nno decisions have been made.\n\n\t Q\t And it raises the question of how independently the \ntask force is working.\n\n\t MS. MYERS: The task force was instructed to consider \nall options, and they've taken that mandate seriously and they're \nconsidering all options.\n\n\t Q\t But that's not the impression that the President \nleft in February. The impression he left was that this was something \nthat was long-range, to be looked at 10, 15 years down the road. The \nclear implication of his remarks was that this was something that was \nnot on the table, not an option. \n\n\t Q\t \"If it changes I'll tell you.\"\n\t \n\t Q\t Bring him on.\n\n\t Q\t And you repeatedly referred to the President's \nremarks, telling us that those were still in operation.\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: It's changed, and we told you. (Laughter.)\n\t \n\t Q\t But that's what Alice Rivlin's comments and Donna \nShalala comments were about. I mean, that seemed like an \norchestrated effort because you have two independent Cabinet officers \n--\n\n\t MS. MYERS: I wouldn't -- no, Alice Rivlin's not a \nCabinet member, first of all. Second of all, it was not \norchestrated, but clearly, they both said yesterday and in the last \ncouple of days that it's something that's being looked at. We \nconfirmed that yesterday. And I don't have anything to add to that.\n\n\t Q\t Is it because he has very few options?\n\n\t Q\t Is this something that it will be incumbent upon \nthe task force to convince the President about? In other words, has \nthe President himself personally ruled it out and it's now up to the \ntask force to convince him to put it back on the table? Or is it, in \nfact, back on the table, having been placed there by discussions with \nthe President? \n\n\t MS. MYERS: It is not the working group's mission at \nthis point to convince the President of anything. It is their \nmission to put before him his options and to explain the benefits and \nthe costs and the basic pros and cons of each of those options. I \nthink that they will certainly present the VAT to him in that \ncontext, and at this point he's not -- that presentation has not been \nmade, but it's something that he will hear and he has not made a \ndecision on.\n\n\t Q\t They will present it to him as one of his options, \nthough he specifically ruled it out?\n\n\t MS. MYERS: Correct.\n\n\t Q\t Dee Dee, is this more than a trial balloon? Is \nthis a serious consideration that the working groups are giving to \nthis form of taxation?\n\n\t MS. MYERS: It's simply a statement of fact. The \nworking groups are considering a wide variety of options on a number \nof issues relating to health care reform. One of the options that \nthey're looking at is the VAT. \n\n\t Q\t Dee Dee, when the working groups were examining \nthis possibility, was this on the table during the same time period \nthat you were telling us that it was not?\n\n\t MS. MYERS: I don't know what the specific timing of \ntheir drafting of options is. I don't know.\n\n\t Q\t Who was telling you that it was not under \nconsideration?\n\n\t MS. MYERS: I was referring back to the President's \ncomments.\n\n\t Q\t Have they discovered that the sin taxes won't raise \nenough money to fund the core benefit package?\n\n\t MS. MYERS: No, there's no decisions that have been made \non how to pay for the health care plan.\n\t \n\t Q\t I'm asking whether the projections --\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: There's a number of options depending on how \nthe plan is structured. You can't decide how much the plan is going \nto cost until you decide what the plan is going to look like. And so \nyou can't discuss what financing options have been ruled in our out \nuntil you know.\n\n\t Q\t Dee Dee, we've been told that they have a computer \nmodels on a number of possible packages.\n\n\t MS. MYERS: Correct. \n\n\t Q\t The question is whether they have now determined \nwhether sin taxes would not produce enough money for even the barest \nminimum package. That is not a very difficult computation.\n\n\t MS. MYERS: It is a question that you know that we're \nnot going to answer until -- there's a number of options being \nconsidered. It depends on how the package is structured. The exact \ndetails of the package and the financing mechanisms used to pay for \nthem are all among the decisions that have yet to be made. \n\t \n\t Q\t And when the President has been meeting with health \ncare -- his health care advisors, which we are told he has been doing \n--\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Correct.\n\t \n\t Q\t they have never once said to him, these are your \nfunding options, including the VAT? He has never heard the word VAT \nin his --\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I am not going to comment on the specific \nnature of the daily -- they're not daily, but the quasi-regular \nbriefings.\n\t \n\t Q\t Well, you have.\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I have not, other than to say that he's not \nconsidered the VAT. And I think that is a true statement.\n\t \n\t Q\t No, but you said that it has not been presented to \nhim as an option.\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Correct.\n\t \n\t Q\t That doesn't mean he hasn't heard about it.\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I'm not going to get into the details of \nwhat's discussed. I think that statement stands for itself.\n\t \n\t Q\t specific, Dee Dee. When you say he hasn't \nlooked at it, do you mean that he hasn't looked at it in terms of \npaying for medical coverage, or hasn't looked at it in general? \nBecause back in Chilicothe he was very specific in defining how it \nworks, what the advantages are, the whole thing. It sounds like --\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: But that was -- I think in Chilicothe, if \nyou go back to his remarks there, it was a broader philosophical \ndiscussion of the tax structure. And I think the comments were \ngenerally in reference to the overall economic plan. But clearly, \nit's something that he's thought about in the broad context. I mean, \nthat was clear in Chilicothe. What I'm saying is that in the process \nof the working groups it's something that he hasn't considered yet. \nIt's something that the working groups will present to him among the \nnumber of options, and that no decisions have been made. And I'm not \ngoing to comment any further on the details of the meetings where \nhealth care issues are being discussed.\n\t \n\t Q\t It's your statement from this podium that no \ndiscussion of this has taken place. You say that no option -- that \nthe option has not been presented to him.\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: That is correct.\n\t \n\t Q\t Do you stand by -- does the White House still stand \nby George's statement in March that this will not be in the proposal?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: No decisions have been made. We have \nnothing to add to what's already been said.\n\t \n\t Q\t Let me follow up here. Do you stand by what Rivlin \nsaid yesterday, that if any kind of VAT were to be used or \nconsidered, that other changes to the tax code would have to be made \nso that it would be less regressive?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I'm not going to comment any further on what \nmight happen if.\n\t \n\t Q\t But do you stand by the previous conversations in \nFebruary that if there were to be a VAT, I think the President said \nyou'd exclude food and energy --\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I'm not going to comment on the specific \nstructure of a decision that hasn't been made.\n\t \n\t Q\t Was the President aware prior to Donna Shalala's \ncomments yesterday that this was under consideration by the working \ngroups?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I don't know specifically what --\n\t \n\t Q\t Could you check for us, because that's a real \nimportant credibility question?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Sure.\n\t \n\t Q\t Since the task force was brought together this \nissue has been discussed, at the beginning and throughout, as one \nfairly painless way to raise a lot of money. Were you all kept in \nthe dark? Was the Press Office kept in the dark over the past month \nand a half when you've been denying that a VAT tax would be \nconsidered that it was actually on the table over there as an option?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I think we've said all that we have to say. \nIt is something the working groups are looking at. The President has \nnot made a decision about it yet. And beyond that, I have nothing to \nadd.\n\t \n\t Q\t Well, sorry, Dee Dee, there are still a couple of \nquestions that we are going to have to ask because we have a problem \nwith credibility here -- yours primarily. What we're asking is, if \nyou all were not told at all that this thing was being considered \nwhile you were coming out here and telling us that it was not, or if \nit's a case that you were coming out here and deliberately misleading \nus.\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I don't believe that anyone has ever come \nout here and deliberately misled you from this podium -- ever --ever.\n\t \n\t Q\t Has anyone tried to shade it a little bit to \nindicate something -- has anybody told anybody to come out --\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: We're not trying to shade answers or \ndeliberately mislead anybody. I've said what I have to say about \nthis issue.\n\t \n\t Q\t All we were trying to find out --\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I understand what you're trying to find out \nand I've given you the answers, Helen.\n\t \n\t Q\t We're trying to find out what changed -- what made \nit an option again. That's the --\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: The working groups were given a broad \nmandate to investigate all options, and they are doing that. \n\t \n\t Q\t Yes, but it wasn't an option before. How can you \ninvestigate it if the President has taken it off the table?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: It is something that they're obviously \nconsidering and the President has not made a decision on.\n\t \n\t Q\t Yes, but he took it off the table in February.\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Working groups are considering it. They'll \npresent it to the President at some point and he'll make a decision.\n\t \n\t Q\t Why would they consider it if he has taken it off \nthe table?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: It's clearly on the table. \n\t \n\t Q\t Yes, but he took it off the table. Did he change \nhis mind?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: It's back on the table, Bill.\n\t \n\t Q\t Did he change his mind?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: He said this morning that he hasn't made a \ndecision about it. He obviously knows that it's on the table. It's \nsomething that he will look at at some and when we have a decision on \nthis we'll let you know.\n\t \n\t Q\t So he must have changed his mind, right?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: At some point it will be looked at. I mean, \n--\n\t \n\t Q\t Dee Dee, there's like two options -- either he \nchanged his mind or the working groups think they're authority \nexceeds the President's.\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: The working groups were given a broad \nmandate to look at all options; they've done that.\n\t \n\t Q\t Are you going to put out his income tax?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Yes, there will be something available on \nhis income tax probably later this afternoon. His return will be \navailable. \n\t \n\t Q\t Will there be any kind of briefing to go through \nit?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: No, nothing's planned. I think someone will \nbe available, probably not in a briefing setting, but to walk you \nthrough the questions.\n\t \n\t Q\t We're used to be walked line-by-line through the \npresidential tax forms.\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I've seen those briefings. (Laughter.)\n\t \n\t Q\t Could we have one?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: No, I don't think there will be any kind of \na formal briefing, but there will be somebody available to answer \nyour questions about it.\n\t \n\t Q\t Did they file a joint form?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Yes.\n\t \n\t Q\t When did he file it?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I believe it's being filed today.\n\t \n\t Q\t Dee Dee, is there going to be a backgrounder for \nMiyazawa?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: No, there will be a readout after the \nmeeting.\n\t \n\t Q\t No backgrounder today?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: No backgrounder today.\n\t \n\t Q\t This is complicated stuff. We need help. \n(Laughter.)\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: We can't give you taxes and Miyazawa all in \none day, it's too confusing. (Laughter.)\n\t \n\t Q\t Vance and Owen have opened the doors on the use of \nforce in Bosnia. They've both said that, A, they never ruled it \nout, and B, it might be necessary now. Does that influence your \nthinking on whether or not to change your approach?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: There's been no change in our policy towards \nBosnia. We have always said that we'd consider --\n\t \n\t Q\t But does that impact upon your decision? Are they \npeople whose opinions would carry weight with you?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: They're people whose opinions carry weight \ncertainly. I mean, the President supports the process that they've \ninitiated. But there's been no change in our policy for Bosnia, \nalthough we're considering a number of options right now. If the \nSerbs don't come back to the negotiating table, if they don't sign on \nto some kind of an agreement, we will consider additional options, \nwhich we've been saying regularly.\n\t \n\t Q\t One follow-up question then? We cannot get a \nstraight answer from anyone in the administration. Why do you not \nset a deadline for the Serbs? Can you tell us the strategic or \ntactical reasons for not giving them a deadline to come to the table?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: We're continuing to put pressure on them \nevery day.\n\t \n\t Q\t Which doesn't work so --\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Well, we think it is having some effect. \nWe're going to continue to tighten sanctions. As you know, we \nsupport the omnibus resolution. We expect that to come to a vote on \nthe 26th. \n\t \n\t Q\t You say it's having an effect -- can you give us \nany documentation?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I'd be happy to provide somebody to talk to \nyou about the impact of the sanctions and things like that.\n\t \n\t Q\t There's been no -- you have not been able to \nprovide anybody who can tell us that the sanctions have had any \neffect in Bosnia. Serbia, yes; in Bosnia, no.\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I think that they've had effect in Serbia \nand we think they've had some effect in Bosnia. And again, I'll be \nhappy to provide somebody to walk you through the details of that, if \nyou'd like.\n\t \n\t Q\t We would like to hear from someone who can show us \nwhat the effect has been in Bosnia. We had the briefing on all of \nthe terrible things that are happening in Belgrade, but we haven't \nseen anything that indicates an impact on the fighting. Can you \nprovide something along those lines?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I will see what I can get you.\n\t \n\t Q\t On the extra Russian aid that Christopher announced \nthis morning -- where is that money coming from?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: We'll have to work with Congress on the \ndetails of that package.\n\t \n\t Q\t So that would be new money that you would hope to \nget?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Yes, that's new money, in addition to the \n$1.6 billion announced in Vancouver. So I assume that you all have \nseen the $1.8-billion package that was announced this morning in \nTokyo by Secretary Christopher.\n\t \n\t Q\t Isn't there a concern, though, about offering \nsomething which you have to get in Congress? I mean, that was the \nconcern with Vancouver; you didn't want to do that.\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: The concern with Vancouver was to do \nsomething immediately, which required money that was already approved \nin the Fiscal '93 budget. What we're looking at now is a little bit \nlonger-term plan to build on top of the $1.6 billion that we \nannounced in Vancouver. This clearly will require congressional \napproval, or some of it will anyway, and we're going to continue to \nwork with Congress to make that happen.\n\t \n\t Q\t To what extent has that been vetted or agreed to by \nCongress?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: The President has had a number of \nconversations with members and will continue to work with them as \nthis process moves forward.\n\t \n\t Q\t Was Christopher able to put this package out with a \nfair degree of understanding that you will be able to get it through \nCongress?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: It was created in consultation with \nCongress.\n\t \n\t Q\t In meeting with the law enforcement officials, is \nthat -- does that have a set speech and a goal? A direction?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Yes, the President will talk about -- and \nthe law enforcement organizations are endorsing the President's jobs \npackage. They believe particularly the summer jobs package will help \ngive kids something to do.\n\t \n\t Q\t Who are they?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: It's members or leadership from three \norganizations: NAPO, which is the National Association of Police \nOrganizations; IBPO, which is the International Brotherhood of Police \nOrganizations, I believe; and IUPA, which is the International Union \nof Police Associations.\n\t \n\t Q\t Will the FBI chief be there?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: The FBI chief? No.\n\t \n\t Q\t Or any other federal law enforcement officials?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: No, it will be the President and these \nnational law enforcement organization leaders.\n\t \n\t Q\t Does the $1.8 billion announced today include the \n$400 million that's in the FY '94 budget for disarmament?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: No. The Nunn-Lugar money is separate.\n\t \n\t Q\t So this would be the $700 million that's in the \nbudget already, plus another $1.1 billion?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I believe all of this is on top of the $700 \nmillion already in the budget.\n\t \n\t Q\t Is this going to be part of the supplemental or \nFiscal '94 --\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: We'll work with Congress on the exact \nfunding mechanism -- on exactly how this will be paid for.\n\t \n\t Q\t This $1.8 billion on top of --\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: On top of $700 million -- on top of the $400 \nmillion Nunn-Lugar money we announced earlier.\n\t \n\t Q\t And this is what prompted the President to call Bob \nDole -- it was on this tranche, not on the previous money he was \ncalling Bob Dole?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Correct.\n\t \n\t Q\t Is there a briefing on Miyazawa?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: There will be a readout after the meeting \nwith Miyazawa. Tomorrow.\n\t \n\t Q\t Dee Dee, on a totally unrelated matter, some \nRepublicans who are active in the U.S. Chamber of Commerce are \ncomplaining about this new cozy relationship between the White House \nand the Chamber of Commerce. There are -- the town hall meeting the \nother night, the satellite and all of this relationship.\nDoes the White House feel that you're getting too close to these \nChambers of Commerce?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: That's an interesting charge. (Laughter.) \nAfter how many years of Democrats being accused of not paying any \nattention to the Chambers, now there are those who would accuse us of \nbeing too close. I think that's interesting. But no, we're thrilled \nby the support we've received from the national Chamber and local \nChambers across the country and we'll continue to work with them on \nthis and other initiatives.\n\t \n\t Q\t What's the status of the President thinking about \ngoing to this Democratic retreat?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: It's on his calendar. I think he'll almost \ncertainly go.\n\t \n\t Q\t All three days?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: We haven't figured out exactly when he'll be \nthere yet. \n\t \n\t Q\t Is it open to coverage?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: No, I believe the whole thing is closed.\n\t \n\t Q\t Is he going to have any kind of address, statement, \nanything at all on the gay rights march on the 25th?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: We're still looking at that. We haven't \nmade a final decision about how we'll -- who will make a statement or \nwhat --\n\t \n\t Q\t Any meetings scheduled with any of the leaders?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Nothing is scheduled, but I wouldn't rule it \nout.\n\t \n\t Q\t What about an AIDS czar?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: It's coming.\n\t \n\t Q\t Anything on the weekend?\n\t \n\t Q\t There's been a suggestion that he's going to this \nretreat to avoid having to participate in the gay rights -- or appear \nor have any involvement in the gay rights march.\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: No, I think this is something he's been \ndiscussing for a long time -- appearing at the Senate Democratic \nretreat.\n\t \n\t Q\t The weekend?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Weekend? Don't know -- the only thing on \nright now is the radio address on Saturday.\n\t \n\t Q\t Any travel plans?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: If it changes -- none right now.\n\t \n\t Q\t He's not going to be off campaigning for his \nstimulus package?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: No specific plans right now.\n\t \n\t Q\t What about mid-week? Anything likely?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: It's possible. Yes, I think it's likely \nthat we'll travel next week -- certainly the weekend.\n\t \n\t Q\t Has he called Thurmond about his daughter?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I don't know. I'll check.\n\t \n\t Q\t Going to name a drug czar this weekend?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: This weekend? I don't believe so.\n\t \n\t Q\t And the radio address on Saturday -- is that going \nto be focused on the stimulus package?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I'm sure it will.\n\t \n\t THE PRESS: Thank you.", "\nI would be happy to discuss the issue of the 12 Imams with you, although\nmy preference would be to move the discussion to another\nnewsgroup. I feel a philosophy\nor religion group would be more appropriate. The topic is deeply\nembedded in the world view of Islam and the\nesoteric teachings of the Prophet (S.A.). Heresy does not enter\ninto it at all except for those who see Islam only as an exoteric\nreligion that is only nominally (if at all) concerned with the metaphysical\nsubstance of man's being and nature.\n\nA good introductory book (in fact one of the best introductory\nbooks to Islam in general) is Murtaza Mutahhari's \"Fundamental's\nof Islamic Thought - God, Man, and the Universe\" - Mizan Press,\ntranslated by R. Campbell. Truly a beautiful book. A follow-up book\n(if you can find a decent translation) is \"Wilaya - The Station\nof the Master\" by the same author. I think it also goes under the\ntitle of \"Master and Mastership\" - It's a very small book - really\njust a transcription of a lecture by the author.\nThe introduction to the beautiful \"Psalms of Islam\" - translated\nby William C. Chittick (available through Muhammadi Trust of\nGreat Britain) is also an excellent introduction to the subject. We\nhave these books in our University library - I imagine any well\nstocked University library will have them.\n\nFrom your posts, you seem fairly well versed in Sunni thought. You\nshould seek to know Shi'ite thought through knowledgeable \nShi'ite authors as well - at least that much respect is due before the\ncharge of heresy is levelled.", "\nThat's right. Despite claims that someone at Kent State fire a shotgun\nat the the soldiers, the only projectiles that anyone can prove where\nsent in the direction of the soldiers were rocks.", "I have some questions about this subject. I like to leave my\ncomputer on if I think I'm going to be using it withing the next 2 or\n3 hours, but I get sick of my Dad constantly coming up to me and\nasking \"Why is the computer on if you're not using it?\" I also\nwonder about my computer being harmed by fluctuations in voltage from\nother things (garbage disposal, etc.) Here are my questions:\n \nHow much harm do voltage fluctuations cause? My computer does not\nshare a circuit with anything big but our my light dims when a\nrefrigerator comes on or the garbage disposal is turned on (whose\ndoesn't?), and also when the washing machine does anything. All\nthese things cause a drop in voltage which is harmful to a computer,\nright? I also notice the fan in my System Saver turning at different\nspeeds. Is it safer to turn it off and back on when I want to use it\nor to leave it on?\n \nHow much electricity does my computer use? I have an Apple IIgs (ne\nflames), with a Kensington System saver GS (1 electric fan inside),\nan AppleColor RGB monitor, and an EXTERNAL 3.5\" HD (1 fan and its own\nP/S). How do I translate this into Kilowatt-Hours? Also, how much\nof this is used by the monitor?\n \nDoes the monitor use considerably less juice when the screen is\ntotally black but still on?\n \nMany computers spin the HD up and down constantly to save power. I\nalways thought this was harmful to the HD and defeats the purpose of\nleaving the computer on in the first place (except portables). Is\nthis true?\n \nThanks for the Info. I think this will help lots of people.", "\n\n Your ignorance is showing. The BATF warrant was unsealed.\n\n The entire operation was illegal from day ONE.", "Hi all,\nOf late my computer's Power supply fan has begun to make a lot of noise. What\ncan I do about this? If I had to get new power supply, or get a new case,\nwhere is a good place selling good tower cases and PS. I know there are a \ncouple dozen listed in the Computer Shopper, but I was looking for personal \nexperiences and recommendations.\n\n-- \nDivya", " (drieux, just drieux) writes (about the armed services):\n\nWell, uh, actually I agree.\n\n", "\n(forgive any inaccuracies, i deleted the original post)\nisn't this the same person who wrote the book, and was censured\nin canada a few years back? ", "Us having the liberties to talk about this doesn't make the problem go\naway. It doesn't make it right. Rather the opposite, if we do not do \nanything about it, you can bet it's going to get worse.", "\n\nI guess you need to be reminded of some things! Have you ever heard of the\nFirst Amendment? I guess not. It isn't a crime to be a religous (I know\nyou said \"sacraligious\", but it isn't your place to judge his religion)\nzealot in this country. REMEMBER we have freedom of religion in this country!\nI guess you are selective in that respect! So what if they were \"bastard\"\nchildren. They were CHILDREN! Do you condone their deaths? I pray for\nyour lack of a soul if you do!", "\n Damn. And I did so have my hopes up.\n\n\n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ \n\nBob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM \n\nThey said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,\nand sank Manhattan out at sea.", "God ItSelf appeared to me and spoke to me, saying \"Rawlins has been listening to\na deamon, and has been taken in by its satanic words!\"", "\n Sorry, gotta disagree with you on this one Maddi (not the\n resemblence to Bill. The nickname).\n\n I prefer \"Half\" Bake'd Timmons\n\n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ \n\nBob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM \n\nThey said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,\nand sank Manhattan out at sea.", "\n\n\n That's _Five Weeks In A Balloon_. And if anyone can tell me where to\nget it, I sure would like a reply! I've been looking for that book for\nTEN YEAR+, and never found it. (Note that I am _not_ looking for a $200\ncollector's item; I'm hoping that *someone* has published it in modern\ntimes, either in paperback or hardcover. I'm willing to spend $50 or\nso to get a copy.\n", "\n\nThey spent quite a bit of time on the wording of the Constitution. They\npicked words whose meanings implied the intent. We have already looked\nin the dictionary to define the word. Isn't this sufficient?\n\n\nBut we were discussing it in relation to the death penalty. And, the\nConstitution need not define each of the words within. Anyone who doesn't\nknow what cruel is can look in the dictionary (and we did).", "\nSuperficially a good answer, but it isn't that simple. An awful lot of the\nstarvation and poverty in the world is directly caused by the economic\npolicies of the Western countries, as well as by the diet of the typical\nWesterner. For instance, some third-world countries with terrible\nmalnutrition problems export all the soya they can produce -- so that it can\nbe fed to cattle in the US, to make tender juicy steaks and burgers. They\nhave to do this to get money to pay the interest on the crippling bank loans\nwe encouraged them to take out. Fund-raising for Ethiopia is a truly bizarre\nidea; instead, we ought to stop bleeding them for every penny they've got.\n\nPerhaps it's more accurate to say that there's a Western ethic against\nWestern infanticide. All the evidence suggests that so long as the children\nare dying in the Third World, we couldn't give a shit. And that goes for the\nsupposed \"Pro-Life\" movement, too. They could save far more lives by\nfighting against Third World debt than they will by fighting against\nabortion. Hell, if they're only interested in fetuses, they could save more\nof those by fighting for human rights in China.\n\nAnd besides, Suzanne's answer implies that non-Western countries lack this\nethic against infanticide. Apart from China, with its policy of mandatory\nforced abortion in Tibet, I don't believe this to be the case.\n", "Sorry, my news reader doesn't seem to know how to copy a subject header.\nThis tracks the thread \"why people don't need strong crypto.....\"\n\nThe Atomic Energy Act of 1954 expressly forbids *thinking* about building\nnuclear devices. While I was in grad school, a friend of mine got a \nsecurity clearance to work on the defense for the Progressive magazine.\nHe found lots of articles which were public domain *removed* from the\nlocal engineering library (Madison Wisconsin). So the lawyers sent him\nall over the states to other libraries to show that the information in\nthe article was already public. What pissed everyone off was a local\nunderground paper went and published the article anyway (it had been\nprecensored by the feds, that's what this was all about) so the judge\ndeclared the case moot.\n\nThe Atomic Energy Act of 1954 has never been tested in court. From my\ndiscussions with several people familiar with the case, only 2 other\ntimes has this preemptive clause been used. In every case the people\nsimply did what they felt like and courts tossed the cases out.\n\nFor all intents and purposes, the government *does* have precidence for\ndeclaring things classified *after* it has been published. While I was\nworking on Star Wars this happened to me: my clearance was in the works\nand I developed a method for tracking particle beams. It was good enough\nto classify, so I was no longer allowed to work on it. A friend from\nCanada was in the same boat: he developed a method to compute stripping\ncross sections, but because the subject was classified *he was not allowed\nto present his own paper at a conference!*. He later published it in an\nopen journal without problems.\n\nWhen the going gets wierd, the wierd turn pro. The feds can do whatever\nthey want whenever they feel like it, and they will make up rules to let\nthemselves get away with it. Since the mass media can't tell the difference\nbetween a joke and the real thing (like \"ranch appocolypse\" for the Waco\nmassacre) don't count on them to help spread the word about their loss\nof freedom. The government *can* make strong crypto illegal. SO WHAT?\nSince the government does not obey any of its own rules, why should we?", "\n\n\n\n\n\nPeter, I think you are ridiculous here. Stupidity is not a measure of how\nwell someone knows our judicial system. I guess Marc meant that he is \nagainst death penalty. But no matter what he meant, your statement not \njustified.\n\n\nRegards, ", "\nGregg, I'm really sorry if having it pointed out that in practice\nthings aren't quite the wonderful utopia you folks seem to claim\nthem to be upsets you, but exactly who is being childish here is \nopen to question.\n\nBBCI was an example of an Islamically owned and operated bank -\nwhat will someone bet me they weren't \"real\" Islamic owners and\noperators? - and yet it actually turned out to be a long-running\nand quite ruthless operation to steal money from small and often\nquite naive depositors.\n\nAnd why did these naive depositors put their life savings into\nBCCI rather than the nasty interest-motivated western bank down\nthe street? Could it be that they believed an Islamically owned \nand operated bank couldn't possibly cheat them? \n\nSo please don't try to con us into thinking that it will all \nwork out right next time.", "\n\nEven if Rodney King had come out of that car waving a gun and they \nmanaged to disarm him, the police still had no right right to beat\nhim senseless the way they did once he was on the ground. If they \ncan't handle their jobs, they should be relieved of them.\n\nAdditionally, Anna Quindlan of the New York Times said it best (paraphrase):\nMany people bring up what happened before what is shown on the tape. Here's\nwhat came before: the 80's, Ronald Reagan, George Bush, racism,...", "w\nfall\n?)\n\n", "Ok, then where is the info for the Licensing kept? Which file? In the\norganization box I put my address, and when I moved, I wanted to change it, but\ncouldn't find it. I could find my name, but not the organization.\n\n ------------------------------------------------------------------------\n | Robert S. Dubinski | Aliases include: Robb, Regal, Sir, Mr., and I |\n ------------------------------------------------------------------------\n | Marquette University ||||||||||| Math / Computer Science Double-Major|\n ------------------------------------------------------------------------\n | Internet Address: 2A42Dubinski.vms.csd.mu.edu |\tMilwaukee, WI |", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\nNice dodge. I give it a 9.2.\n\nNow to answer your questions. I do not believe that there should be a\ndraft. The armed services should be voluntary. Can you say the same\nabout taxes.\n\nI've answered your question. Would you now answer mine.", "Thanks to Tarl Neustaedter of MA for kindly letting me know that my\nreference in prior post to Orwell and \"1984\" should probably have been to\nHuxley and \"Brave New World.\" \n\nSorry, Al.", "\n\n\n ^^^\nIf french is your language, try counting in french in stead, maybe\nit will work better.... :-)", "\nNope. I keep my Mac running all the time since it also acts as a\nusenet node and exchanges mail and news every half hour (I run uAccess)\nand receives all my faxes.\n\nI do turn off the monitors hooked up to it. They produce more heat\nthan I want - it can be warm in my garage office in the summer. I've\ngot one of those handy power control centers ($25 at Fry's) to I just\nflip the switch in front when I start or stop working.\n\nBy the way, this strategy seems to be somewhat endorsed by Apple since\ntheir new Color Classic will turn off its own monitor after a certain\nlength of idle time.", "I recently read an article in a local paper written by an Islamic\n person who was upset with the way Islam has been portrayed by western media.\n When a terrorist action takes place in the middle east, it is always played\n up as an Islamic Terrorist. However, when the a Serbian terrorist attacks\n the Croations, its not a Christian terrorist, its just a terrorist.\n\tI have often tried to explain this to some close friends who believe\n the press, that Islam is somehow tied to violence. Often times you hear\n things like \"They just don't value human life like we do...\" and so on.\n I was wondering if anyone out there had any suggestions for how we can\n change this image, or how I can help my friends to see that this is just \n hype. I would appreciate any serious suggestions or comments via e-mail,\n and I'm not interested in hearing about how right the press is.", "\n\n\n\n\n\nI note that you make no such case as you claim can be 'even more\neasily made'. Yes, the argument can (and has) been made that current\ngovernment policy creates even larger market barriers than there were\nin the first place, but there is no such term as 'government failure',\nsince the government can change policies whenever it pleases. The\nmarket doesn't do that and is governed by (relatively) well-understood\nforces. This libertopican bilge about 'moral arguments' about\ntaxation, etc., is, at bottom, so much simplistic economic thinking.\nIt can only be 'justified' by cliche derision of anyone who knows more\nabout economics than the libertopian -- which is what invariably\nhappens. Tripe a la Tommy, the new libertopian dish.\n\n\n\nWherever do you get this inflated idea of your own importance?\n\n-- \n\"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live\n in the real world.\" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden", "\n\nOf course, free trade and slavery don't make much sense together in\na phrase anyway. Perhaps Mr. Depken meant, \"low import tariffs,\" but\nthat is quite a bit less than \"free trade.\"", "\nAnd who's advocating that? Hate crimes laws are aimed at the motivations\nof the acts. Just like premeditated homicide is treated stricter than\nheat-of-passion homicide.\n\n\nSo if I set off a bomb in the World Trade Center, I can only be charged with\nmore than one murder, and not the other five deaths and extensive property\ndamage? After all, the bomb was a single act.\n\n\n", "Julie, it is a really trying situation that you have described. My\nbrother was living with someone like that and things were almost as bad\n(although he left after a considerably shorter amount of time due to\nother problems with the relationship). Anyway, the best thing to do\nwould be to get everyone in the same room together (optimally in a room\nwith nothing breakable), lock the door behind you, throw the key out\nunderneath the door (just as far as the longest hand can reach. You\nwould like to get out after the conclusion, I would imagine), and hash\nthings out. More than likely, there will be screaming, crying, and\npossibly hitting (unless of course someone decided to bring some rope to\ntie people down). Some of the best strategies in keeping things calmer\nwould include:\n have each individual own their own statements (ie, I feel that this\nrelationship is hurting everyone involved because.... or I really don't\nunderstand where you're coming from.)\n reinforce statements by paraphrasing, etc. (ie, So you think that we\ndid this because of...? Well, let me just say that the reason for this\nwas ....)\n don't accuse each other (It was your fault that ... happened!)\n find a common ground about SOMETHING (Lampshades really are\ndecorational and functional at the same time.)\n Guaranteed, in a situation like this, there is going to be some\ngunnysacking (re-hashing topics which were assumed resolved, but were\ntruly not and someone feels someone else is to blame). However, this\nshould be kept to a minimum and simply ask for forgiveness or apologize\nabout each situation WITHOUT holding a smoldering grudge. \n\nThe relationship really can work. It's just a matter of keeping things\nsmooth and even. It's sort of like making a peace treaty between\nwarring factions: you can't give one side everything; there must be a\ncompromise. Breaks can be taken, but communication between everyone\ninvolved must continue if the relationships here are to survive.", "Archive-name: cryptography-faq/part06\nLast-modified: 1993/4/15\n\n\nFAQ for sci.crypt, part 6: Public-Key Cryptography\n\nThis is the sixth of ten parts of the sci.crypt FAQ. The parts are\nmostly independent, but you should read the first part before the rest.\nWe don't have the time to send out missing parts by mail, so don't ask.\nNotes such as ``[KAH67]'' refer to the reference list in the last part.\n\nThe sections of this FAQ are available via anonymous FTP to rtfm.mit.edu \nas /pub/usenet/news.answers/cryptography-faq/part[xx]. The Cryptography \nFAQ is posted to the newsgroups sci.crypt, sci.answers, and news.answers \nevery 21 days.\n\n\nContents:\n\n* What is public-key cryptography?\n* What's RSA?\n* Is RSA secure?\n* How fast can people factor numbers?\n* What about other public-key cryptosystems?\n\n\n* What is public-key cryptography?\n\n In a classic cryptosystem, we have encryption functions E_K and\n decryption functions D_K such that D_K(E_K(P)) = P for any plaintext\n P. In a public-key cryptosystem, E_K can be easily computed from some\n ``public key'' X which in turn is computed from K. X is published, so\n that anyone can encrypt messages. If D_K cannot be easily computed\n from X, then only the person who generated K can decrypt messages.\n That's the essence of public-key cryptography, published by Diffie\n and Hellman in 1976.\n\n In a classic cryptosystem, if you want your friends to be able to\n send secret messages to you, you have to make sure nobody other than\n them sees the key K. In a public-key cryptosystem, you just publish X,\n and you don't have to worry about spies.\n\n This is only the beginning of public-key cryptography. There is an\n extensive literature on security models for public-key cryptography,\n applications of public-key cryptography, other applications of the\n mathematical technology behind public-key cryptography, and so on.\n\n* What's RSA?\n\n RSA is a public-key cryptosystem defined by Rivest, Shamir, and\n Adleman. For full details, there is a FAQ available by ftp at\n RSA.COM. Here's a small example.\n\n Plaintexts are positive integers up to 2^{512}. Keys are quadruples\n (p,q,e,d), with p a 256-bit prime number, q a 258-bit prime number,\n and d and e large numbers with (de - 1) divisible by (p-1)(q-1). We\n define E_K(P) = P^e mod pq, D_K(C) = C^d mod pq.\n\n Now E_K is easily computed from the pair (pq,e)---but, as far as\n anyone knows, there is no easy way to compute D_K from the pair\n (pq,e). So whoever generates K can publish (pq,e). Anyone can send a\n secret message to him; he is the only one who can read the messages.\n\n* Is RSA secure?\n\n Nobody knows. An obvious attack on RSA is to factor pq into p and q.\n See below for comments on how fast state-of-the-art factorization\n algorithms run. Unfortunately nobody has the slightest idea how to\n prove that factorization---or any realistic problem at all, for that\n matter---is inherently slow. It is easy to formalize what we mean by\n ``RSA is/isn't strong''; but, as Hendrik W. Lenstra, Jr., says,\n ``Exact definitions appear to be necessary only when one wishes to\n prove that algorithms with certain properties do _not_ exist, and\n theoretical computer science is notoriously lacking in such negative\n results.''\n\n* How fast can people factor numbers?\n\n It depends on the size of the numbers. In October 1992 Arjen Lenstra\n and Dan Bernstein factored 2^523 - 1 into primes, using about three\n weeks of MasPar time. (The MasPar is a 16384-processor SIMD machine;\n each processor can add about 200000 integers per second.) The\n algorithm there is called the ``number field sieve''; it is quite a\n bit faster for special numbers like 2^523 - 1 than for general numbers\n n, but it takes time only about exp(O(log^{1/3} n log^{2/3} log n)) in\n any case.\n\n An older and more popular method for smaller numbers is the ``multiple\n polynomial quadratic sieve'', which takes time exp(O(log^{1/2} n\n log^{1/2} log n))---faster than the number field sieve for small n,\n but slower for large n. The breakeven point is somewhere between 100\n and 150 digits, depending on the implementations.\n\n Factorization is a fast-moving field---the state of the art just a few\n years ago was nowhere near as good as it is now. If no new methods are\n developed, then 2048-bit RSA keys will always be safe from\n factorization, but one can't predict the future. (Before the number\n field sieve was found, many people conjectured that the quadratic\n sieve was asymptotically as fast as any factoring method could be.)\n\n* What about other public-key cryptosystems?", "\n\nNo it didn't. The motto has been on various coins since the Civil War.\nIt was just required to be on *all* currency in the 50's.", "\n\n\n\n Well, I don't think your query was exactly polite, but I will TRY to\ngive you a polite responce. Something atypical of the net, but here it goes.\n\n Black is a descriptive adjective that describes Mr. King. From many\nof the newspaper, radio, and tv news reports I have seen, this adjective \nis commonly in front of his name. I have NEVER seen anyone complain about\nthe use of this adjective when used in a benign manner. I did not say that\nMr. King was a no good black! I do not know Mr. King and would not make this\nascertian without some evidence to this effect. I used it PURELY as a \ndescriptive adjective in the same manner than many ( most ) news people have\nused it in the past.\n\n\n The entire second trial was about race, Ted. I don't feel compelled to\ndiscuss Mr. King's racial background, but had Mr. King been white there would\nnot have been a second trial. You probably are saying that the beating would\nnot have occurred if he were white, but that is an extremely difficult call\nto make. It is possible the case, but not definately. \n\n I still think your actions are crap, Ted. They are far more divisive than\nme using the adjective 'black' in a non-derogenory manner. Would you have\nbeen happier if I had used 'African-american' ? If so, then you really are\nlost in the world of PC. You have already been instrumental in getting one\npersons net access revoked, and I wonder if you have sent a copy of my \nmessage to my sys admin with a plea that I am not worthy of posting.", "\n[Excellent discussion of DC-X landing techniques by Henry deleted]\n\n\nThe DC-X will not take of horizontally. It takes of vertically. \n\n\nFor several reasons. Vertical landings don't require miles of runway and limit\nnoise pollution. They don't require wheels or wings. Just turn on the engines\nand touch down. Of course, as Henry pointed out, vetical landings aren't quite\nthat simple.\n\n\nWell, to be blunt, yes. But at least you're learning.\n\n\nThe Soyuz vehicles use parachutes for the descent and then fire small rockets\njust before they hit the ground. Parachutes are, however, not especially\npractical if you want to reuse something without much effort. The landings\nare also not very comfortable. However, in the words of Georgy Grechko,\n\"I prefer to have bruises, not to sink.\"\n\n", " \nYou think that you all have it bad....here at good ol' Southwest Missouri\nState U., we have 2 parties running for student body president. There's the\ntoken sorority/fraternity faces, and then there's the president and vice\npresident of NORML. They campaigned by handing out condoms and listing\ntheir qualifications as,\"I listen really well.\" It makes me sick to have\na party established on many of the things that are ruining this country like\nthey are. I think I'll run next year.:(", "From article , by tas@pegasus.com (Len Howard):\n\n", "\nHehehe, so you say, but this objective morality somehere tells you \nthat this is not the case, and you don't know all the rules of such\ntranscendental game systems...\n\nCheers,\nKent", ": I am a new reader of sci.crypt I would like to obtain a copy of a\n: public domain program that can encrypt files, preferably using DES,\n: that runs under MS-DOS.\n\n: I would also like to obtain a program which will password protect\n: floppy disks, if this is possible.\n\n: Thanks.\n\n: David Maddison\n: Melbourne, Australia\n\nWhen you find out a floppy password protect program, could you e-mail me.\nThanks", "\nIf you won't believe anything the government says, and the press\nis not reliable according to the same logic, then what do you base\nyour statements on? Wild speculation laced with a healthy dose\nof paranoia?\n", "\n\n\nWhy do you title this \"News you will miss\" ?\n\nThere have been at least three front-page stories on it in the L.A. Times.\n\nI wouldn't exactly call that a media cover-up.\n\n\n\n\n___Samuel___\nMossad Special Agent ID314159\nMedia Spiking & Mind Control Division\nLos Angeles Offices", "I used to be a marriage commissioner for the Alaska Court\nSystem (sort of a justice of the peace). I had great difficulty\nwith that duty. I used to pray earnestly in the courthouse\nbathroom before the ceremonies, mostly asking that the couples\nwould come to appreciate and fulfill the true holiness and\ndivine purpose in marriage--couples who obviously didn't realize\nthat marriage is God's institution, not the state's. Gradually,\nhowever, I came to conclude that because I was acting in a\nstrictly secular, public capacity, established as such by both\nthe state and the expectations of the couples involved, I was\nreally conducting a purely secular, legal civil event, with no\ngreater moral or religious implications than if I had been\nconducting a civil trial (the couple who told me, mid-ceremony,\nto \"please hurry it up\" may have helped me to this conclusion). \n\n I thought I had neatly rationalized a clear and sharp\ndistinction between marriage before God, and \"marriage\" before\nthe state, until I had to deal with my own divorce. Keeping\nMatthew 19:6 in mind, I felt that the state had no business\ndissolving my marriage established before God, but of course it\nassumed jurisdiction nonetheless. \n\n I would ask those of you proposing answers to this\nquestion to consider this issue's logical extension: If\nintercourse, or the mental intent of the parties, or the\nceremony of the church, or any combination thereof, establishes\nmarriage, then at what moment is it dissolved? ", "\n{> i am interested in getting the pulse of this group regarding\n{> extended operation of my G2K 486-33V with the cover removed \n{> from the enclosure. there are a # of reasons i am considering \n{> this, including quick access to jumpers during complex i/o card \n{> setups.\n{> \n{> my concern is that without a complete enclosure to direct the\n{> cooling flow of air from the fan, \"hot spots\" may develop on my\n{> motherboard or elsewhere. my G2K has intake air vents in the \n{> front of the enclosure right at MB level. These vents would be \n{> removed along with the top cover in this scenario, rendering\n{> airflow from the fan pretty useless. \n{> \n{> however, short periods in this mode don't seem to heat things up\n{> too much, but my conclusions are far from scientific...\n{> \n{> -- tim\n\nI ran a 386-33 out of a cardboard box for more than a year with no\nmajor effects (yeah, no case at all, MB sitting on a static bag)\nother than the noise from the Poersupply it ran pretty good.\nas for cooling problems I bought a 12-14 inch fan and turned\nit on full and set the output directly on the motherboard.\n\nI did finally get a case though and I am still running the parts\nwith no ill effects.\n\nI also had no kids to spill things on the MB> I had no cat leaving\nhair on the MB etc. etc. on and on....\n\nthe two major concerns are keeping static away and keeping the MB cool\nenjoy\n\n -David\n\n=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=", "(NOTE: cross-posted to alt.politics.italy and talk.politics.misc\n This is a reply to an article by Ed Ipser which also appeared in\n alt.politics.usa.misc and alt.politics.libertarian, but no longer belongs)\n\n\nI hate to defend Ed (the article was very poorly written) but here goes:\n\n\nItaly's per-capita debt is much higher than USA's.\n\n\n\nThis is *exactly* what the public in France & Italy perceive to be the\nproblem-- thus the French election and Italian pulizia.\n\n\nRegarding the post-pulizia Italy:\n\nWrong. This is true perhaps only for the Lega Nord.\nThe referendum Sunday is expected to establish a British/American style\nfirst-past-the-post system in the Senate. If implemented, it would\nencourage a two- (or perhaps three-) party system in Italy.\nMost likely the DC and PSI will not be these parties; rather there will\nbe a shakeup of the entire party structure from which 2 new parties\nwill emerge to dominate. Will Lega Nord be one of these? Who knows.\n\n(The Camera dei Deputati (lower house) will likely remain with\nProportional Representation for a while, but there is talk of switching a\nportion of that house, too. Maybe as much as 40% first-past-the-post)\n\nOverall, the electoral reform in Italy is a welcome change. Italians\nare tired of having crappy government. Porn stars, Pavarotti's and\nHunters & Fishers won't gain seats because PR is dead. A good two-party\nsystem will bring Italy efficient, accountable government.\n\nIt's about time.", "\n\nWell, chimps must have some system. They live in social groups\nas we do, so they must have some \"laws\" dictating undesired behavior.", "\nYou know, you have a point here, but don't stop with African Americans...\nWhen I was in high school in the early 1980s, on various occasions I had\nknives pulled on me, had friends who were stabbed, and I was beaten up\nrepeatedly by those that couldn't accept me as different. And don't\nlet the teachers off the hook either. On many many occasions, there\nwere teachers that either resented me or were too scared out of their\nwits by the bullies to even stop the people who attacked me and they\nwould just watch quietly... All of this was in a nice white middle\nclass high school. In fact, we were so nice and white that we made\nsure that the one black kid in my class was unable to go to the prom\nwith his white girlfriend... This isn't a race thing, it's the\nway public schools seem to be run...\n\nI'd hate to be in high school right now... At least I didn't have\nto deal with guns, just the roving psycho-drug-dorks and the jocks-\nwithout-a-future-but-with-plenty-of-testosterone...\n\nI'd separate everyone who wants to learn from these assholes... But hey,\nthe valuelessness of learning and glorification of jocks is an American\ntradition, you think anything is going to change? If you have kids,\ntake 'em out of the public school system and educate them yourself...\nThat's what I'll do if I ever have them... I wouldn't wish what I went\nthrough upon any kid... Maybe on some of their parents though...", "It's all my fault. \nI am in violation of one of my own rules:\n\"Avoid FollowingUp to a Barf posting.\"\n\n\n\n\n\nThose damned, spiking Israelists, right, Barfling?\n\n\n\"Trained Seals\"? You mean the ones that flap their flippers making\n\"Arf, Arf! Arf, Arf!\" sounds?\n\n\nIn your own diseased mind, you now seem to believe that tax exemption\nis equivalent to government funding. Holy Shit, Batman! The US\ngovernment is now one of the major supporters of the Catholic Church\n-- in violation of the rules of separation of Church and State! \n\n\nQuick, Bill! Commandeer all the churches and give them to the People!\nOr does your anti-logic only apply to the mosques belonging to what\nyou have described as \"Ragheads\" or perhaps the synagogues of those\nyou have characterized as \"Hymies\"?\n", "\n\nOn a similar note, a good friend of mine worked as a clerk in a\nchain bookstore. Several of his peers were amazing, one woman in\nparticular:\n\nA customer asked her if they had _The Autobiography of Benjamin\nFranklin_. \"Who's it by?\" was her first question. Then, \"Is he\nstill alive?\" Then, \"Is it fiction or non-fiction?\" \n\nFinally my friend intervened, and showed the guy where it was.\n \nIt makes one wonder what the standards of employment are.", "THE WHITE HOUSE\n\n Office of the Press Secretary\n_____________________________________________________________________\nFor Immediate Release April 20, 1993\n\n\n PRESS BRIEFING\n BY GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS\n\n\t \n The Briefing Room\n\n\n12:36 P.M. EDT\n\t \n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: As you know, the President is going \nto come out at 1:15 p.m. With your indulgence, I think what we'd \nlike to do is have the President award the National Teacher's Award \nfirst and then have the teacher leave, or whatever, and then he'll \nmake a statement on Waco and take a couple questions. So if we can \njust hold off going live and all that until that's done, it probably \nwill work out a lot better. \n\t \n\t Q\t If you'll give us the time. That's the problem.\n\t \n\t Q\t We've got a two-minute warning problem.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes, it is a problem. It's about \n1:15 p.m.\n\t \n\t Q\t The teacher would walk off and then --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think that's -- I'm just trying \nto work this out here. I think that's the best way to handle it.\n\t \n\t Q\t Can I ask you a series of questions about the way \nthe President handled the notifications yesterday? \n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Sure.\n\t \n\t Q\t Did you, for instance, talk to the Justice \nDepartment about who would come out and discuss what had happened in \nWaco and whether it should be the Attorney General or the President?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Why don't we just take a step even \nfarther back from that and look at the whole sequence of events on \nthe contact between the Justice Department and the White House. As \nyou know and as we've said, the President spoke with the Attorney \nGeneral on Sunday, Sunday afternoon. They had a good discussion, \nabout 15 minutes. The Attorney General informed the President of \nwhat she wanted to do. He raised no objections. Obviously, she had \nthe implicit authority from the President to go forward. He raised \nno objections. She went forward. They had a discussion of a general \nnature about the incident.\n\t \n\t Again, yesterday morning around 11:00 a.m., the \nPresident spoke with the Attorney General again. They had a brief \ndiscussion over what was happening in Waco. As you know, this was \nbefore the fire broke out at the compound. And I think that was why \nthere was some -- just some confusion. I think that she was \nconfusing in her minds before and after the fire, not the actual day \nwhen they spoke. \n\t \n\t Then there was a number of contacts at a number of \ndifferent levels in the White House yesterday afternoon between the \nJustice Department and the White House. They were informing us of \n\f\ntheir decisions, what they would like to do. There was an FBI \nbriefing in Waco. The Attorney General had her press conference. \nThe President then issued a statement after that.\n\t \n\t Frankly, yesterday afternoon, you know, there was a fair \namount of confusion over exactly what was happening on the ground in \nWaco, and I think that we wanted to be very careful not to have the \nPresident say anything until we had a much better sense of what was \nactually happening on the ground. Once we were fairly clear on what \nwas happening on the ground in Waco, the President issued a \nstatement. He spoke with the Attorney General again yesterday \nevening.\n\t \n\t Q\t At what hour was that?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: It was quite late. I believe it \nwas after he returned from the Holocaust Museum. He took a tour of \nthe Holocaust Museum last night.\n\t \n\t Q\t And he went out to dinner.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I believe briefly. Yes, he went to \ndinner and then he spoke with the Attorney General last night. I \ndon't know the exact time; I think it was relatively late. And he \njust said, I think as Dee Dee has reported, that he just wanted to \ntell her that he thought she handled a difficult situation very well, \nthat she did a good job in a tough situation, and that she should try \nand get some sleep. He then, again, spoke with her this morning \nabout the follow-up in Waco, and about what they're going to do this \nafternoon. As you know, the President will have an announcement to \nmake at 1:15.\n\t \n\t Q\t Did he ever talk with Webb Hubbell yesterday, last \nnight, or this morning?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Not to my knowledge, no.\n\t \n\t Q\t Was Webb Hubbell the point man for the White House?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Webb Hubbell is the general White \nHouse Liaison and several people talked to Webb. The Attorney \nGeneral was running the operation.\n\t \n\t Q\t Did he tell her that she should sleep well, that \nshe had done a good job? Or he just tell her that she should get \nsome sleep?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think sleep well -- done a good \njob -- I don't know the exact words. I think that sounds right.\n\t \n\t Q\t I mean, sleep well has implications as to \nconscience and whether she should feel badly about it or not.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, I mean, I think everybody \nfeels badly when you have a situation when --\n\t \n\t Q\t I understand that, but whether the issue of blame \nis brought up in that phraseology.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think that's the spirit -- no, it \nhas nothing to do with that. The spirit with which it was offered \nwas that the entire administration and certainly the Attorney General \nhad to face a very difficult decision, a very difficult situation \nyesterday. And that he thought that she had handled it well, as best \nas she could and --\n\t \n\t Q\t Well, does he think it was mishandled?\n\f\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: -- it was just speaking of warm \nwords to a friend.\n\t \n\t Q\t Does he think the situation was mishandled?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The President --\n\t \n\t Q\t In retrospect?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The President stands by the \ndecisions of the law enforcement agencies, the decisions of the \nAttorney General. He accepts full responsibility. At the same time, \nI think that we all want to look to the future and figure out what \nexactly happened, do a full review, and make sure we do what we can \nto make sure this doesn't happen -- this kind of thing doesn't happen \nagain, or at least we know how to handle it.\n\t \n\t Q\t How much did he know about what she was going to go \nahead with? I know that she made the case to him -- explained --\noutlined the case for action. Did she say to him on Sunday precisely \nwhat action?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't think it was specific \noperational detail as to what was going to happen. I think that they \nhad a general discussion about the action, about the advisability of \naction. I think, as she noted, he asked a few general questions just \ntrying to get a sense of how things were considered. But it wasn't \nminute-by-minute detail of how the operation --\n\t \n\t Q\t Well, was it, \"we are going in.\" Is it, \"we're \ngoing to use tear gas\"? I mean, what?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I believe it was that we want to go \nin and take some action that would increase the pressure on those in \nthe compound, and hopefully spur them towards some sort of movement \nout.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, was there ever a conscious political \ndecision made, or even a discussion about distancing the President \nfrom --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Not at all. I mean, we were in \nclose contact with the Justice Department. The President accepts \nresponsibility for this. At the same time -- I mean, we just wanted \nto be very, very clear about how this happened and be as factual as \nwe could be on how the decisions were made. It is the responsibility \nof those on the ground to make recommendations. The Attorney General \nhas operational control over this. The President obviously accepts \nresponsibility for all of this, and he stands by the Attorney \nGeneral.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, there was a report on the television today \n-- and I don't know more than that -- one of the members of the cult \nhad said going into a courthouse that the FBI had started the fire \nand not themselves. There was also a picture yesterday on the TV of \na smashing into the building where the fire broke out. And my \nquestion is, is the White House absolutely certain that this fire was \n--\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: All the evidence we have is that \nthis fire was started by David Koresh and those inside the compound \n-- every bit of evidence we have.\n\t \n\t Q\t Did the President ask the Attorney General why do \nthis now, why this particular date, and did he ask about possible \nconsequences of either death or injury?\n\f\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know the specific \nquestions. He had general questions about how the decision was going \nabout being made.\n\t \n\t Q\t Those are general questions and did he ask \ngenerally, why now?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think he asked, have you \nconsidered all of the consequences; have you considered the \nrecommendations? I don't know if he asked the question, \"why now? \" \nI don't know if he asked that specific question.\n\t \n\t Q\t Did she tell him why now in terms of the stuff \nthat's come out since then about the information provided by the \nlistening device about Koresh getting increasingly more violent?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Again, I'm not certain how much \nspecific detail they got into. I know that she generally said that \nthis is the recommendation she's prepared to make, I mean, the \ndecision she's prepared to make. It's based on the recommendations \nshe was receiving from the field and after intensive questioning of \nthose involved. Again, I do not know how precisely detailed it was \nbeyond that.\n\t \n\t Q\t What is the President's understanding why \nyesterday? One of the people who went into the compound a couple \nweeks ago came out over the weekend with some speculation that he may \nhave told law enforcement people something that precipitated this \naction. Why yesterday?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: This is the first I've heard. I \nthink what we can go to is what the FBI and the Attorney General has \nsaid. There were indications that those inside the compound were at \nsome danger. It was clear that the negotiations had broken down and \nit was the judgment of the experts involved in the negotiations that \nthe situation was not going to get any better at all. \n\t \n\t There was also some concern over the vulnerability of \nthe agents themselves who had been working long beyond the time that \nthese teams normally have to work. And as the Attorney General has \nsaid, there was some concern over the fact that they did not have \nreplacements in place who could stand in for them, and there was a \nconcern over the safety. \n\t \n\t All of these factors came into play. They also \nconsidered the advice of a number of psychologists and other experts \non David Koresh and those in the compound. I would just go back to \nwhat the Attorney General has said. You have to make the best \njudgment you can, given the information you have at the time. They \ndid. Obviously, we all regret the loss of life. It's a terribly \nunfortunate situation. We all wish it could have turned out \ndifferently, but that doesn't take away from the judgments that were \nmade at the time.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, when did the President know that they were \ngoing to use tear gas? Was it before the assault on the compound?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I just don't know. I don't believe \nhe was given a lot of detail on exactly how the operation would go. \nI just don't know.\n\t \n\t Q\t Along that point, George, can you say whether the \nplan was presented to the President by the Attorney General as a way \nto end the standoff one way or the other yesterday?\n\t \n\f\n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think it was presented as a way \nto increase the pressure on those in the compound and, we all hoped, \nas a way to move some of those out and bring it in -- it wasn't \npresented as tomorrow is D-Day, this is it.\n\t \n\t Q\t Is the President satisfied that, A, he had all this \nrelevant information necessary to make a decision, and B, that Janet \nReno had all the relevant information necessary to make a decision?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Oh, I think he's satisfied that \nthey were acting on the best advice and the best information they \nhad, and he's not second-guessing it in any way whatsoever.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, was there a 12-hour gap between \nconversations between the President and the Attorney General? In \nother words, they spoke at 11:00 a.m. and they didn't speak again \nuntil Clinton got back from dinner at --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think that's likely, yes.\n\t \n\t Q\t Did he call her? What time did she call? Was \nthere a gap between when she called him? I mean, was he at dinner \nwhen she called and --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No, no, no. I think he called her \nlast night. I couldn't swear to it, but I believe he called her last \nnight. He just wanted to talk to her.\n\t \n\t Q\t what was going on?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Not that I know of, no.\n\t \n\t Q\t What do you know about the situation now? Everyone \nhas perished who -- except eight or nine? And do you know any of the \nother details?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know any more details than \nthe FBI reported in Waco.\n\t \n\t Q\t watching CNN or how was he keeping track of what \nis going on? If he wasn't talking to his Attorney General, how was \nhe keeping track of what was going on here? I mean, with all due \nrespect to CNN, is that how he was doing it?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No. There was also -- as I said, \nseveral people in the White House were in constant contact with their \ncounterparts at Justice to have the full and complete information.\n\t \n\t Q\t Who were those contacts? I mean, was it Mack \nMcLarty, Webb Hubbell? How was the President being kept informed? \nThat's not a --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I believe Mack was in contact with \nWebb. I spoke with several people at the Justice Department. I \nbelieve Bruce Lindsey spoke with people at the Justice Department. \nEither Bernie or Vince was also in contact at different times during \nthe day with people at the Justice Department. We were fully briefed \nand fully informed.\n\t \n\t Q\t We were told this morning that the President may \nhave spoken -- a chance that he may have spoken with Webb. Do you \nknow if that's true or not?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think there's a chance he may \nhave. I don't believe he did, but I think there's certainly a chance \nthat he may have at some point. I don't believe he did. I think \nthat the last contact he had during the day yesterday directly with \n\f\nthe Justice Department was the 11:00 a.m. phone call with the \nAttorney General. But the White House was fully informed on a \nminute-to-minute basis of what was happening in Waco and what was \nhappening at the Justice Department.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, who decided that the briefing would be done \nby the Attorney General?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The Attorney General.\n\t \n\t Q\t Did you or did the White House communications staff \n-- were you ever involved with that decision?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No. We were told about it.\n\t \n\t Q\t Did you ask her to go on Nightline and MacNeil-\nLehrer and all that stuff? Was that part of --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No.\n\t \n\t Q\t there was no advice from the White House at all \nabout her -- she was on all night, all day. (Laughter.)\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes, and she did a very good job. \n\t \n\t Q\t Why did you decide to have the President's reaction \nto the situation be only a written statement, which is traditionally \nthe White House's way of distancing the President from the issue, not \nhaving him appear as personally saying anything?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, that wasn't the intent at \nall. As I said, we had to -- we wanted to wait until we had all of \nthe information at hand. The President is also making a statement \ntoday. The President made a statement yesterday morning. The \nPresident has been fully involved --\n\t \n\t Q\t After this turned into less than a successful \noperation, the only statement from the President was what was on \npaper after the Attorney General had already given what amounted to \nthe major facts in this.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, it was the first statement \nfrom the President, not the only statement from the President, number \none. \n\t \n\t Q\t After the --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Number two -- well, the first. \nNumber two, the Attorney General --\n\t \n\t Q\t He gave a statement early in the morning when the \nthing was starting to move --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Right. And he gave one yesterday \nand he's giving one today. Now, the second point --\n\t \n\t Q\t It just happens this was a written statement with \nno sort of communications policy or thought process involved? It was \nthe President wants to put out a written statement?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Knowing what we knew at the time, \nwe thought it was appropriate for the President and he thought it was \nappropriate to put out a written statement expressing his regret and \nexpressing his support for the Attorney General's --\n\t \n\t Q\t Why was it not appropriate for him to personally do \nsomething?\n\f\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, he did personally do so. \nThat is his statement. It's a statement under his name.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, yesterday during the briefing you didn't \nsay the President took full responsibility for what happened --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I certainly did.\n\t \n\t Q\t No, what you said was --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: That's just not right, Susan.\n\t \n\t Q\t Well, I think you can go back to the transcript, I \nmean, unless I miss something --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'd love to.\n\t \n\t Q\t Janet Reno said that she took full \nresponsibility and you said that she made the decision, that the FBI \n--\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: And the President takes \nresponsibility. Absolutely.\n\t \n\t Q\t Took responsibility -- all right.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Check the transcript.\n\t \n\t Q\t Considering how little was known about what was \ngoing on inside the compound and, even now, how little is known, why \nis Washington calling this a mass suicide?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, I think that knowing what we \nknow now and given all of the actions of David Koresh before and \nduring, it is painfully clear that those there were under his \ncontrol.\n\t \n\t Q\t It's stretching it a little bit where the kids are \nconcerned, though, isn't it, George?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think that that is an entirely \ndifferent matter. I mean, I think that David Koresh must bear \nresponsibility for the deaths of those children, absolutely. But he \nclearly was intent on creating some kind of an apocalyptic incident, \nand that's what he did.\n\t \n\t Q\t You're still operating completely on assumption, \nright? I mean, you have no evidence, or you know of no evidence that \nthis was mass suicide.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: We have evidence that those inside \nthe compound set fire to the compound, which led to the deaths of \nthose inside.\n\t \n\t Q\t I didn't quite hear it. This might be Ann's \nquestion, I didn't quite hear it. But at what time did Clinton \nhimself put out a statement on this? I know Dee Dee said some stuff \non this at 6:00 p.m., but the President put out --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: At 6:35 p.m., 6:40 p.m.\n\t \n\t Q\t Right after the evening news went on the air?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No, right when we had all the \ninformation. We were working on it.\n\t \n\f\n\t Q \t Dee Dee confirmed this morning that the \ninvestigation the President is going to announce is going to be an \nadministration-run investigation. Why not have someone from the \noutside to make sure that it's not colored by those who would have a \npolitical stake, particularly those at the ATF whose actions have \nalready been --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think that clearly the ATF and \nthe Justice Department will bear responsibility for the \ninvestigation. That's not to rule out, as is often in investigations \nlike this, having some sort of independent involvement as well. But \nit will be run by the Treasury and Justice. \n\t \n\t Q\t Are you confident that you will not have any \nproblem getting --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Absolutely.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, did the President reach out to anybody else \nto get advice after the meeting with Janet Reno? And who else in the \nWhite House sat in on that meeting? Anyone else from Justice?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't believe anybody else was \nthere at the time. It was a phone call on Monday, it wasn't a \nmeeting.\n\t \n\t Q\t Sunday.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Sunday. It was a phone call, it \nwasn't a meeting. I believe he might have been there with Bruce, but \nbeyond that, I think he just talked to the Attorney General.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, you said that in that phone call, she said \nthat we want to go in and take action, as you said, that will force \nhim out. What did he think she was talking about? If he didn't know \nabout tear gas, what exactly was his idea of what he was approving?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think he was approving an action \nto increase the pressure on --\n\t \n\t q\bQ\t It didn't matter how she did that?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No, no. I mean --\n\t \n\t Q\t What information did he have in terms of how this \nwould proceed? Presumably he would have wanted to know, not minute-\nby-minute, but in a general sense --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think he knew that this was the \nrecommendation of those on the ground and the recommendation of the \nlaw enforcement agencies. I just don't know --\n\t \n\t Q\t What is \"this\" -- when you say that \"this\" was the \nrecommendation --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The action to increase pressure. I \ndon't know exactly what he was told -- whether he was going to be \ntold that the tank was going to go up to the left wall and punch a \nhole in the window, or whether he was just told generally that they \nwere moving forward in a way that would increase the pressure. I \njust don't know.\n\t \n\t Q\t It's hard to imagine him not asking, though.\n\t \n\t Q\t that Janet Reno presented him with as her best \nadvice about what they should go forward with, he would have agreed?\n\t \n\f\n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: He was -- he did ask some general \nquestions about the advice and recommendation he gave. At the same \ntime -- and I would repeat -- that this was based on the unanimous \nrecommendation of the law enforcement agencies involved.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, it would seem that this question about just \nexactly in what detail the President was informed about the nature of \nthe operation is going to come up again here and elsewhere. Can you \ntake that question and --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Absolutely. Yes.\n\t \n\t Q\t get the answer and come back to us with all of \nit?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes.\n\t \n\t Q\t Can you tell us that there was never a meeting -- a \nstrategy session -- where you and others decided, we will put out a \nwritten statement from the President and we will have Janet Reno be \non all of these television broadcasts?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Never. Never.\n\t \n\t Q\t And you never called the Justice Department and \nsaid to anyone or Janet Reno, \"you're the one who needs to be out \nfront explaining this\"?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Not once.\n\t \n\t Q\t It just happened that way that she was the \nspokesman, that no one ever saw Bill Sessions until --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: She made a decision as Attorney \nGeneral that it was important for her as the operational officer in \ncharge, as the person who made the decision, to go out and take the \nquestions on this tragic incident.\n\t \n\t Q\t She had no guidance from the White House at all?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: We certainly didn't object.\n\t \n\t Q\t But did you -- (laughter) -- no, I'm sure you \ndidn't object, but did you suggest it? Was this a plan --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No. Absolutely not.\n\t \n\t Q\t a strategy?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No.\n\t \n\t Q\t Did she clear it? \n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No.\n\t \n\t Q\t Did she notify you?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: We certainly knew about it.\n\t \n\t Q\t What happened to this great detailed process you \nhave for clearing and talking to every public information officer and \nevery -- under every rock and every place in government that \nsomething as major as this could have occurred without a discussion \nbetween you and the public information people at least at the Justice \nDepartment?\n\t \n\f\n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The Attorney General made the \ndecision and the Attorney General wanted to go forward. It seemed \nlike a good decision. It was a good decision. She did a good job.\n\t \n\t Q\t Let me ask it this way, George, if in hindsight how \nyou would handle it?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think it was handled very well.\n\t \n\t Q\t You wouldn't change a thing if --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Change what?\n\t \n\t Q\t The way the White House handled any part of it -- \nfrom start to finish.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, I think that's an awful broad \nquestion and we're certainly going to have a review. One of the \nreasons for the investigation is to look for ways in the future that \nsomething like this -- see what we can learn from an incident like \nthis and see what we can learn about how to handle them. If you're \ntalking specifically about the issue of the press conferences, no, \nthere -- wouldn't make any change at all.\n\t \n\t Q\t Two questions: First of all, on her going on TV, \nno White House people or outside media consultants came up with this \nidea? It's just very reminiscent of what you guys did during the \ncampaign.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: How so?\n\t \n\t Q\t I'm thinking of like watching Clinton on Nightline \nafter the draft story; watching Clinton on --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: There's absolutely no comparison. \nYesterday there was a law enforcement incident. The incident ended \nin tragic deaths of many, many people. The Attorney General was \ninvolved in that decision. The Attorney General made the decision to \ndo that. She felt it was her responsibility in the interest of \npublic information to go out and take the questions of the press in \norder to make sure that all of the questions were answered, and she \ndid a fantastic job.\n\t \n\t Q\t The second question is, did -- as someone who knows \nClinton as well as you do, can you understand why it's sort of hard \nto believe that he might not have asked some detailed questions about \nwhat she intended to do? In other words, she came and she said, I'm \ngoing to put pressure on them. It's hard not to see Clinton, who's \nfairly intelligent and inquisitive, asking how.\n\t \n\t Q\t What kind?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Both the Attorney General said that \nhe did ask questions, he did ask general questions. I don't have a \nminute-by-minute account of the conversation.\n\t \n\t Q\t How long a conversation?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think it was about 15 minutes.\n\t \n\t Q\t Telephone conversation?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, was the federal cost of this standoff ever \na consideration in terms of stepping up the pressure --\n\t \n\f\n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't believe so, no.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, you keep saying that the President takes \nfull responsibility, but then you refer to it as her decision. Does \nthe President not accept the fact that as Commander-In-Chief, it is \nultimately his decision?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know what this has to do \nwith Commander-In-Chief. This was a law enforcement action, not a \nmilitary action. And he clearly takes responsibility for the \ndecisions of the law enforcement agencies involved taken in his \ngovernment. I mean, I think there's just no ambiguity about that.\n\t \n\t Q\t But is he accepting it as his decision as well as \nhers, or is he saying it's her decision? There's a difference.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: As a matter of fact, it was her \ndecision. He did not object to that decision. He clearly takes full \nresponsibility. \n\t \n\t Q\t George, this briefing has gone on just a little \nover 15 minutes, and as you can see a lot of things can be exchanged. \nWhat exactly did they spend 15 minutes talking about if it was just \nvery general? That's a long period of time in a phone conversation.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: It is an awful long phone \nconversation. It was a very important phone conversation. I think \nBrit has asked that we take the question, and I've said that I would.\n\t \n\t Q\t One of the things Reno said last night is that the \nbuck stops here. I think that was her direct quotation. Does the \nPresident agree with that in this case?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The President says he accepts full \nresponsibility. I think what the Attorney General was saying is that \nshe made a decision, that she's going to accept all the \nresponsibility that comes to her. And she's not shrinking from that \nat all, but neither is the President. \n\t \n\t Q\t At any point in the conversation last night between \nthe President and the Attorney General or this morning, did she ever \noffer her a resignation?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Not to my knowledge. \n\t \n\t Q\t Even before the fire was out yesterday, there were \nsome Republicans on Capitol Hill calling for an investigation. Is \nthe White House at all concerned about the timing of those requests \ntrying to make political hay out of this situation?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No. And I don't want to cast any \nquestions about the motives of those who are requesting \ninvestigation. We want an investigation, and we'll have a full and \ncomplete investigation.\n\t \n\t Q\t In what forum will you answer Brit's question? \nWill you put out a written statement? Will you -- the wires? How \nwill you answer the question that you've taken?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm just not sure.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, can you remind us what the President was \ndoing all yesterday afternoon, where he was, and what meetings he was \ninvolved in?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'll have to try and remember. He \nhad a series of meetings with different members of the staff during \n\f\nthe afternoon. He was certainly monitoring the situation in Waco and \ngetting periodic reports on that as well. He did see some on CNN as \nwell. I believe he saw a fair amount of the FBI press briefing as \nwell.\n\t \n\t Q\t And those reports would have come to him from Mack \nMcLarty, would they -- do you think?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Mack talked to him, Bruce talked to \nhim, I talked to him.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, to follow Helen's question, in their \nconversation this morning did they discuss at all her statement last \nnight in response to the question about whether she would resign? \nDid he say, I don't know why you felt the need to say that? I'm here \nto reassure you that you don't have to do this? Did that come up at \nall?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know if it even came up \nthat specifically. I know that the bulk of the conversation was \ndiscussing where do we go from here and what form the investigation \n--\n\t \n\t Q\t The didn't talk at all about her kind of \nremarkable comment last night about --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, I believe she was asked a \nquestion.\n\t \n\t Q\t And her response was, if the President wants me to, \nI will.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Which would be, I think, the \nstandard response that most Cabinet members would give. I mean, it's \na conditional statement.\n\t \n\t Q\t have a need to talk about whether -- personally \nabout whether the President wanted her --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know if they talked about \nit. I mean, what I learned about the conversation was that it was \nlargely about the investigation itself. And this just didn't come \nup. I did not ask the question if they talked about --\n\t \n\t Q\t Will you take that with the Brit package?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Certainly. (Laughter.)\n\t \n\t Q\t George, for the record, does the President want her \nto resign? I know Dee Dee answered this morning --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Absolutely not. He supports Janet \nReno. She's a good Attorney General. She's done a good job. She \nhandled a difficult situation extremely well.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, does the President feel that he and Janet \nReno were let down by the unanimous professional advice from the law \nenforcement experts on the ground?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No. And the President is not \nsecond-guessing that decision and those recommendations in any way. \nThat is not to say that he doesn't regret the loss of life. \nEverybody regrets the loss of life in this situation. But the best \njudgments were made in a difficult situation based on the best \ninformation we had.\n\t \n\f\n\t Q\t George, the 15-minute conversation was the one on \nSunday, is that correct?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes.\n\t \n\t Q\t How long was the one at 11:00 a.m. yesterday \nmorning?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know. I'll take that \nquestion, too.\n\t \n\t Q\t Were these outside experts that they were \nconsulting with, or experts within the ATF and the FBI?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: You'd have to ask them. I'm just \nnot sure. I know that there were several experts.\n\t \n\t Q\t And also, why weren't there replacements for these \npeople? Is the unit that small? \n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Again, I think it is a very small \nhighly-specialized unit. But I think it's one of the kinds of things \nthat the investigation will examine.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, isn't there a factor here involving the FBI \nDirector? Normally, a president, when he wants to get information, \ndoesn't only asks the Attorney General. I know the chain of command. \nBut presidents talk to their FBI directors. In this case, throughout \nthis entire siege, he has not felt that he could pick up the phone \nand talk to Bill Sessions, who is from Waco, and get expertise from \nhim on what to do and what not to do?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think he talked to the FBI \nDirector well in the beginning of the situation when it first broke \nout in Waco. At the same time, the Attorney General bears the \nultimate responsibility and he was getting fully briefed from the \nAttorney General.\n\t \n\t Q\t Don't you think the ambiguous situation that \nDirector Sessions is in has some impact on the way the President is \nbriefed and on the way that all of this evolved?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Not at all. I mean, it's perfectly \nappropriate that he be briefed by the Attorney General and that the \nAttorney General has supervisory authority over the FBI Director, and \nthat's following the chain of command.\n\t \n\t THE PRESS: Thank you .\n\n END 1:03 P.M. EDT", "Another one rescued from the bit bucket...\n\nOver the years the furor over this book has been discussed on a.a. and\nelsewhere on the net. Generally, the discussion comes down to the\ncontention on the one hand that TSV contains such blood libel against\nIslam as to merit, if not death, than at least banning and probably\nsome sort of punishment; and on the other that Rushdie, particularly\nas a non-muslim in a Western country, had every right to write and\npublish whatever he chose, regardless of whether some muslims find it\noffensive, without fear of persecution or death. \n\nI am naturally inclined to the latter position, but find myself in an\ninteresting position, because I think this is a fine book, only\nincidentally concerned with Islam, and moreover I'm damned if I can\nfind anything malevolently offensive in it.\n\nOver the years, when I have made this point, various primarily muslim\nposters have responded, saying that yes indeed they have read the book\nand had called it such things as \"filth and lies\", \"I would rank\nRushdie's book with Hitler's Mein Kempf or worse\", and so on.\nUnfortunately, these comments are usually generalities, and attempts\nto follow up by requesting explanations for what specifically is so\noffensive have met either with stony silence, more generalizations, or\ninaccurate or out-of-context references to the book [which lead me to\nbelieve that few of them have actually read it]. Corrections and\nattempts to discuss the text in context have been ignored.\n\nAnyway, since I seem to be the only one following this particular line\nof discussion, I wonder how many of the rest of the readership have\nread this book? What are your thoughts on it? \n-- \nJim Perry perry@dsinc.com Decision Support, Inc., Matthews NC\nThese are my opinions. For a nominal fee, they can be yours.\n\n", "According to a Software engineering professor here, what was actually rated\nlevel five was an ibm unit which produced part of the software for the shuttle,\nby not means all of it. \n\nInteresting note: 90% of the software development groups surveyed were at\nlevel 1. The ibm shuttle groups was the *only* one at level 5!\n", 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used a tank to knock a hole in the wall, and they released\n >non-toxic, non-flammable tear gas into the building.\n\n Non-toxic tear gas?!? Do you know what tear gas is?\n\n I do: once upon a time I happened to be in a room when someone threw \n a tear-gas grenade in (that was supposed to be a joke:). The sensation \n was incredible: I felt my eyes and nostrils were being torn apart.\n I remember us - a bunch of young men in our early 20's - running out\n like a herd of wild animals, knocking down the door and jumping\n out of the windows (thank G-d we were on the first floor).\n\n I can't imagine this kind of stuff being used against children.\n\nFor them, the worst effect might not be the physical effects so much\nas the psychological effect of being incapacitated without fully\nunderstanding the cause. Many years ago, I was accidentally exposed\nto a tiny dose of tear gas. (It was in Athens, on the street leading\nto the American Embassy; there'd been a march that had been broken up\nwith tear-gas; I must have stumbled into a remaining patch of gas the\nnext day.) Aside from the tears, feeling sick to my stomach, etc.,\nthe really horrible psychological effect was that of suddenly falling\nto pieces and not knowing why it had happened---I was horrified and\nwondered what disease or other health problem I had. (I didn't find\nout about the march and the tear-gas till hours later.) I can imagine\nhow horribly disorienting this might be to very young children:\nsuddenly crying uncontrollably and feeling sick, weak, and out of\ncontrol of your body---and not knowing the cause.\n\n``This gives us a chance to try the Gas of Peace.'' Yeah, right.\n", "\nThe Davidians are a 60-year-old splinter from the Seventh Day Adventists,\nif that's the information you were looking for.\n-- ", "[reply to todamhyp@charles.unlv.edu (Brian M. Huey)]\n \n \nKirilian.\n \n \nThere turned out to be a very simple, conventional explanation for the\nphenomenon. I can't recall the details, but I believe it had to do with\nthe object between the plates altering the field because of purely\nmechanical properties like capacitance. The \"aura\" was caused by direct\nexposure of the film from variations in field strength.", "\n\n\nWho knows... I just quoted what was \"written\" in SCSI Director...\n\n\n\nI've tried calling Transoft Corp about this and have either gotten the\nresponse \"Huh?\" to \"Yep\" to \"Nah\"... You would expect that a damaging state-\nment like this would have _some_ \"data\" to back it up...\n\nAnyone want Transoft's phone number?", "\nMost likely the tragic situation in Bosnia is a combination of ethnical\nand religious motives, where religion is just one attribute that separates\nthe groups from each other.\n\nBut I must agree that the sad saga in Bosnia is a terrible example\nof a case where religion is not helping, instead it is used as a weapon\nagainst other humans. And my sympathies are mostly on the Bosnian side,\nit looks like the Serbs are the oppressors, willing to use even\nChristianity as a weapon against their former friends.\n\nCheers,\nKent", "A while ago there was a reference to a paper on a crypto file\nsystem (CFS) given by someone at at AT&T (?). How can I\nget a copy? Is it available on the net? Was it published?\nWho was the author?\n\n Thanks\n ", "\n\n\nThis is really uncalled for.\n\nYou cannot expect a European, growing up in a culture of \"rulers\" and \n\"subjects,\" to immediately grasp the concepts of individual independence\nand citizen sovereignity in the US.\n\nHe's less at fault than the countrymen we have here who also can't grasp it.\n-- ", "\n\nI couldn't agree more. Canada has an anti-hate law which exists to punish\nthose who wilfully spread false propaganda (lies) for the purpose of \nputting down another group. This is actually the law that David Irving\nwill hopefully be found guilty under due to his denial of the Holocaust.\nIt's too bad that this useless \"Centre for Policy Research\" isn't in Canada.\nIt'd set a nice precedent to how the law applies in Cyberspace.\n\n Steve\n-- ", "\nAbsolutely not true!\nThere are lots of them!", "\n\nBut whatever the neutrons hit has a good chance of absorbing the\nneutron and becoming radioactive itself. Mostly, that means water\nturning into (harmless) heavy water. But some neutrons would \nalso hit bones, and the resulting harmfull, secondard radioactives\nwould remain in the body for decades. I think an unshielded nuclear\nwarhead could reasonably be considered a public health hazard.\n\nAs for a shielded warhead, I think a fair amount of maintaince\nis required for it to remain safely shielded (e.g. storage in\na dry, temperature-regulated facility, etc...) For private\nownership to be unregulated, I think a single individual must\nbe able not only to keep the weapon, but keep it in a safe\ncondition. If any random private citizen could not properly\nkeep, maintain and store a nuclear weapon, then some regulation\nis clearly appropriate.\n\n\n\nI disagree with this purpose: The job of the militia is to defend\nthemselves and their community. If you look at the American \nrevolution as an example, the militias won by seperating themselves\nfrom, and becoming independent of, a repressive government. They\ndidn't overthrow it, and those communities (Canada and England, for \nexample) that didn't defend themselves were still under that same\nold regime. If the role of the militia were offensive, to go out and\ndestroy repressive governments, nuclear weapons _might_ be appropriate.\nBut their jobs is defensive, and nuclear weapons aren't suited\nfor that.\n\nThere is also the question of personal and collective arms: The\nSecond Amendment definately protects ownership of personal\nweapons (since the very nature of the militia requires members\nto provide their own arms.) But it isn't clear if it covers\nother arms. Certainly, not all members would supply (for example)\na tank, only a few could or (if they were to be used effectively)\nshould. However, those providing the heavy weapons have a \ndisproportionate control over the militia and its fierpower.\nThe militias, as the framers envisioned them, were extremely\ndemocratic: If only 50% of the members supported the cause, only\n50% would respond to a muster, and the militia's firepower would\nbe proportionately reduced. Militia firepower and the popular\nwill were, therefore, linked. But if a small minority of the\nmembers supplied a large fraction of the firepower (in the\nform of heavy weapons) this would all change: The militia's\nfirepower would depend on the will of a small minority, not\nof the general public. Worse, that minority would be quite\ndifferent from the general public (at the very least, they\nwould be much richer.) As a result, I think the nature and\ncharacter of the militia requires that each member provide\na roughly equal share of the militia's firepower: His personal\nweapons, and some equitable fraction of a squad's heavier firepower.", "Archive-name: graphics/resources-list/part1\nLast-modified: 1993/04/17\n\n\nComputer Graphics Resource Listing : WEEKLY POSTING [ PART 1/3 ]\n===================================================\nLast Change : 17 April 1993\n\nMany FAQs, including this Listing, are available on the archive site\npit-manager.mit.edu (alias rtfm.mit.edu) [18.172.1.27] in the directory\npub/usenet/news.answers. The name under which a FAQ is archived appears\nin the Archive-name line at the top of the article.\nThis FAQ is archived as graphics/resources-list/part[1-3]\n\nThere's a mail server on that machine. You send a e-mail message to\nmail-server@pit-manager.mit.edu containing the keyword \"help\" (without\nquotes!) in the message body.\n\nYou can see in many other places for this Listing. See the item:\n\n0. Places to find the Resource Listing\n\nfor more information.\n\nItems Changed:\n--------------\n\nRE-ARRANGED the subjects, in order to fir better in the 63K/article limit.\nI PLAN ON CHANGING HEADERS SOON, SO BE CAREFUL! ONLY THE \"Resource Listing\"\nkeys are sure to remain in the Subject: line!\n\n0. Places to find the Resource Listing\n6. 3D graphics editors\n a. Public domain, free and shareware systems\n9. Plotting packages\n18. Molecular visualization stuff\n\n[ I'm thinking of making this post bi-weekly. What do you think??? ]\n\n--------------\n\nLines which got changed, have the `#' character in front of them.\nAdded lines are prepended with a `+'\nRemoved lines are just removed. Use 'diff' to locate these changes.\n\n========================================================================\n\nThis text is (C)Copyright 1992, 1993 of Nikolaos C. Fotis. You can copy\nfreely this file, provided you keep this copyright notice intact.\n\nCompiled by Nikolaos (Nick) C. Fotis, e-mail: nfotis@theseas.ntua.gr\n\nPlease contact me for updates,corrections, etc.\n\nDisclaimer: I do not guarantee the accuracy of this document.\nUse it at your own risk.\n\n========================================================================\n\nThis is mainly a guide for computer graphics software.\nI would suggest reading the Comp. Graphics FAQ for image analysis stuff.\n\nIt's entitled: \n (date) comp.graphics Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)\n\n John T. Grieggs is the poster of the\n official comp.graphics FAQ\n\nI have included my comments within braces '[' and ']'.\n\nNikolaos Fotis\n\n========================================================================\n\nContents of the Resource Listing\n================================\n\nPART1:\n------\n0. Places to find the Resource Listing\n1. ARCHIE\n2. Notes\n3. Computer graphics FTP site list, by Eric Haines\n4. Mail servers and graphics-oriented BBSes\n5. Ray-tracing/graphics-related mailing lists.\n6. 3D graphics editors\n a. Public domain, free and shareware systems\n b. Commercial systems\n7. Scene description languages\n8. Solids description formats\n\nPART2:\n------\n\n9. Plotting packages\n10. Image analysis software - Image processing and display\n\nPART3:\n------\n11. Scene generators/geographical data/Maps/Data files\n12. 3D scanners - Digitized 3D Data.\n13. Background imagery/textures/datafiles\n14. Introduction to rendering algorithms\n a. Ray tracing\n b. Z-buffer (depth-buffer)\n c. Others\n15. Where can I find the geometric data for the:\n a. Teapot ?\n b. Space Shuttle ?\n16. Image annotation software\n17. Scientific visualization stuff\n18. Molecular visualization stuff\n19. GIS (Geographical Information Systems software)\n\nFuture additions:\n[Please send me updates/info!]\n\n========================================================================\n\n0. Places to find the Resource Listing\n======================================\n\n#This file is crossposted to comp.graphics, comp.answers and news.answers,\nso if you can't locate it in comp.graphics, you're advised to search in\n#comp.answers or news.answers\n(The latter groups usually are archived in your site. Contact your sysadmin\nfor more info).\n\nThese 3 articles are posted to comp.graphics 3-4 times a month and are kept in\nmany places (see below)\n\n--\n\nMany FAQs, including this one, are available on the archive site\npit-manager.mit.edu (alias rtfm.mit.edu) [18.172.1.27] in the directory\npub/usenet/news.answers. The name under which a FAQ is archived appears\nin the Archive-name line at the top of the article.\nThis FAQ is archived as graphics/resources-list/part[1-3]\n\nThere's a mail server on that machine. You send a e-mail message to\nmail-server@pit-manager.mit.edu containing: help in the Subject: field\n\n--\n\nThe inria-graphlib mail server mirrors this posting (see under the\nSubject 4: Mail servers )\n\n--\n\nThe Resource Listing is accesible through WAIS in the machine\nenuxva.eas.asu.edu (port 8000) under the name graphics-resources-list.\nIt's got a digest-type line before every numbered item for purposes of\nindexing.\n\n--\n\nAnother place that monitors the Listing is the MaasInfo files.\nFor more info contact Robert E. Maas \n\n--\n\nYet another place to search for FAQs in general is the SWITCH\n(Swiss Academic and Research Network) system in Switzerland:\n\ninteractive:\n telnet nic.switch.ch [130.59.1.40], login as \"info\". Move to the\n info_service/Usenet/periodic-postings directory. Search in the\n 00index file by typing \"/\" and the word to look for.\n You may then just read the FAQ in the \"faqs\" directory, or decide\n to fetch it by one of the following methods.\n\nftp:\n login to nic.switch.ch [130.59.1.40] as user anonymous and\n enter your internet-style address after being prompted for a\n password.\n\n\tcd info_service/Usenet/periodic-postings\n\nmail:\n send e-mail to\n\nRFC-822:\n archive-server@nic.switch.ch\nX.400:\n /S=archive-server/OU=nic/O=switch/PRMD=switch/ADMD=arcom/C=ch/\n\nEnter 'help' in the bodypart to receive instructions. No information\nis required in the subject header line.\n\n\n1. ARCHIE\n=========\n\nThe Archie is a service system to locate FTP places for\nrequested files. It's appreciated that you will use Archie\nbefore asking help in the newsgroups.\n\nArchie servers:\n archie.au or 139.130.4.6 (Aussie/NZ)\n archie.funet.fi or 128.214.6.100 (Finland/Eur.)\n archie.th-darmstadt.de or 130.83.128.111 (GER.)\n cs.huji.ac.il or 132.65.6.5 (Israel)\n archie.kuis.kyoto-u.ac.jp or 130.54.20.1 (JAPAN)\n archie.sogang.ac.kr or 163.239.1.11 (Korea)\n archie.ncu.edu.tw or telnet 140.115.19.24 (TWN)\n archie.doc.ic.ac.uk or 146.169.3.7 (UK/Ireland)\n archie.sura.net or 128.167.254.179 (USA [MD])\n archie.unl.edu (password: archie1) (USA [NE])\n archie.ans.net or 147.225.1.2 (USA [NY])\n archie.rutgers.edu or 128.6.18.15 (USA [NJ])\n archie.nz or 130.195.9.4 (New Zealand)\n\nConnect to Archie server with telnet and type \"archie\" as username.\nTo get help type 'help'.\nYou can get 'xarchie' or 'archie', which are clients that call Archie\nwithout the burden of a telnet session.\n'Xarchie' is on the X11.R5 contrib tape, and 'archie' on comp.sources.misc,\nvol. 27.\n\nTo get information on how to use Archie via e-mail, send mail with\nsubject \"help\" to \"archie\" account at any of above sites.\n\n(Note to Janet/PSS users -- the United Kingdom archie site is\naccessible on the Janet host doc.ic.ac.uk [000005102000].\nConnect to it and specify \"archie\" as the host name and \"archie\" as\nthe username.)\n\n==========================================================================\n\n2. Notes\n========\n(Excerpted from the FAQ article)\n\nPlease do *not* post or mail messages saying \"I can't FTP, could\nsomeone mail this to me?\" There are a number of automated mail servers\nthat will send you things like this in response to a message.\n\nThere are a number of sites that archive the Usenet sources newsgroups\nand make them available via an email query system. You send a message\nto an automated server saying something like \"send comp.sources.unix/fbm\",\nand a few hours or days later you get the file in the mail.\n\n==========================================================================\n\n3. Computer graphics FTP site list, by Eric Haines\n==================================================\n\nComputer graphics related FTP sites (and maintainers), 26/03/93\n\tcompiled by Eric Haines, erich@eye.com\n\tand Nick Fotis, nfotis@theseas.ntua.gr\n\nRay-tracers:\n------------\n\nRayShade - a great ray tracer for workstations on up, also for PC, Mac & Amiga.\nPoV - son and successor to DKB trace, written by Compuservers.\n\t(For more questions call Drew Wells --\n\t73767.1244@compuserve.com or Dave Buck -- david_buck@carleton.ca)\nART - ray tracer with a good range of surface types, part of VORT package.\nDKBtrace - another good ray tracer, from all reports; PCs, Mac II,\n\tAmiga, UNIX, VMS (last two with X11 previewer), etc.\nRTrace - Portugese ray tracer, does bicubic patches, CSG, 3D text, etc. etc.\n\tAn MS-DOS version for use with DJGPP DOS extender (GO32) exists also,\n\tas a Mac port.\nVIVID2 - A shareware raytracer for PCs - binary only (286/287). Author:\n\tStephen Coy (coy@ssc-vax.boeing.com). The 386/387 (no source) version\n\tis available to registered users (US$50) direct from the author.\nRAY4 - Steve Hollasch's 4-dimensional ray tracer - renders hyperspheres,\n\thypertetrahedra, hyperplanes, and hyperparallelepipeds (there's\n\ta separate real-time wireframe viewer written in GL called WIRE4 ) .\nMTV,QRT,DBW - yet more ray tracers, some with interesting features.\n\nDistributed/Parallel Raytracers:\n--------------------------------\n\nXDART - A distributed ray-tracer that runs under X11. There are server binaries\n\twhich work only on DECstations, SPARCs, HP Snakes (7x0 series) and NeXT.\n\tThe clients are distributed as binaries and C source.\nInetray - A network version of Rayshade 4.0. Needs Sun RPC 4.0 or newer.\n\tContact Andreas Thurnherr (ant@ips.id.ethz.ch)\nprt, VM_pRAY - parallel ray tracers.\n\nVolume renderers:\n-----------------\n\nVREND - Cornell's Volume Renderer, from Kartch/Devine/Caffey/Warren (FORTRAN).\n\nRadiosity (and diffuse lighting) renderers:\n-------------------------------------------\n\nRadiance - a ray tracer w/radiosity effects, by Greg Ward. Excellent shading\n\tmodels and physically based lighting simulation. Unix/X based, though\n\thas been ported to the Amiga and the PC (386).\nINDIA - An Indian radiosity package based on Radiance.\nSGI_RAD - An interactive radiosity package that runs on SGI machines with a\n\tSpaceball. It includes a house database.\n\tAuthor: Guy Moreillon \nRAD - a simple public-domain radiosity package in C. The solution can be run\n\tstand-alone on any Unix box, but the walk-through requires a SGI 4D.\n\tAuthor: Bernard Kwok \n\nRenderers which are not raytracers, and graphics libraries:\n-----------------------------------------------------------\n\nSIPP - Scan line z-buffer and Phong shading renderer.\n\tNow uses the shadow buffer algorithm.\nTcl-SIPP - a Tcl command interface to the SIPP rendering\n\tprogram. Tcl-SIPP is a set of Tcl commands used to programmed\n\tSIPP without having to write and compile C code.\n\tCommands are used to specify surfaces, objects,\n\tscenes and rendering options.\n\tIt renders either in PPM format or in Utah Raster Toolkit RLE format\n\tor to the photo widget in the Tk-based X11 applications.\n\nVOGLE - graphics learning environment (device portable).\nVOGL - an SGI GL-like library based on VOGLE.\nREND386 - A *fast* polygon renderer for Intel 386s and up. Version 2 on up.\n\t[ It's not photorealistic, but rather a real-time renderer]\nXSHARP21 - Dr. Dobb's Journal PC renderer source code, with budget texture\n\tmapping.\n\nModellers, wireframe viewers:\n-----------------------------\n\nVISION-3D - Mac modeler, can output Radiance & Rayshade files.\nIRIT - A CSG solid modeler, with support for freeform surfaces.\nX3D - A wireframe viewer for X11.\n3DV - 3-D wireframe graphics toolkit, with C source, 3dv objects, other stuff\n\tLook at major PC archives like wuarchive. One such file is 3DKIT1.ZIP\nPV3D - a shareware front end modeler for POVRAY, still in beta test.\n French docs for now, price for registering 250 French Francs. Save disabled.\n Some extra utilities, DXF files for the registered version.\n\nGeometric viewers:\n------------------\n\nSALEM - A GL-based package from Dobkin et al. for exploring mathematical\n\tstructures.\nGEOMVIEW - A GL-based package for looking and interactively manipulating\n3D objects, from Geometry Center at Minnesota.\nXYZ GeoBench -(eXperimental geometrY Zurich) is a workbench for geometric\n\tcomputation for Macintosh computers.\nWIRE4 - GL wireframe previewer for Steve Hollasch's RAY4 (see above)\n\nData Formats and Data Sets for Ray Tracing:\n-------------------------------------------\n\nSPD - a set of procedural databases for testing ray tracers.\nNFF - simplistic file format used by SPD.\nOFF - another file format.\nP3D - a lispy file format.\nTDDD - Imagine (3D modeler) format, has converters for RayShade, NFF, OFF, etc.\n\tAlso includes a nice postscript object displayer. Some GREAT models.\nTTDDDLIB - converts to/from TDDD/TTDDD, OFF, NFF, Rayshade 4.0, Imagine,\n\tand vort 3d objects. Also outputs Framemaker MIF files and isometric\n\tviews in Postscript. Registered users get a TeX PK font converter and\n\ta superquadric surfaces generator.\n\tGlenn Lewis \n\t[Note : TTDDDLIB is also known as T3DLIB]\nCHVRTD - Chapel Hill Volume Rendering Test Datasets, includes volume sets for\n\ttwo heads, a brain, a knee, electron density maps for RNA and others.\n\nWritten Material on Rendering:\n------------------------------\n\nRT News - collections of articles on ray tracing.\nRT bib - references to articles on ray tracing in \"refer\" format.\nRad bib - references to articles on radiosity (global illumination).\nSpeer RT bib - Rick Speer's cross-referenced RT bib, in postscript.\nRT abstracts - collection by Tom Wilson of abstracts of many RT articles.\nPaper bank project - various technical papers in electronic form. Contact\n\tJuhana Kouhia \nOnline Bibliography Project :\n The ACM SIGGRAPH Online Bibliography Project is a database of \n over 15,000 unique computer graphics and computational geometry\n references in BibTeX format, available to the computer graphics\n community as a research and educational resource.\n\n The database is located at \"siggraph.org\". Users may download \n the BibTeX files via FTP and peruse them offline, or telnet to\n \"siggraph.org\" and log in as \"biblio\" and interactively search\n the database for entries of interest, by keyword.\n For the people without Internet access, there's also an e-mail\n server. Send mail to\n\n archive-server@siggraph.org\n\n and in the subject or the body of the message include the message send\n followed by the topic and subtopic you wish. A good place to start is\n with the command\n send index\n which will give you an up-to-date list of available information.\n\n Additions/corrections/suggestions may be directed to the admin,\n \"bibadmin@siggraph.org\".\n\nImage Manipulation Libraries:\n-----------------------------\n\nUtah Raster Toolkit - nice image manipulation tools.\nPBMPLUS - a great package for image conversion and manipulation.\nLIBTIFF - library for reading/writing TIFF images.\nImageMagick - X11 package for display and interactive manipulation\n\tof images. Uses its own format (MIFF), and includes some converters.\nxv - X-based image display, manipulation, and format converter.\nxloadimage, xli - displays various formats on an X11 screen.\nKhoros - a huge, excellent system for image processing, with a visual\n\tprogramming interface and much much more. Uses X windows.\nFBM - another set of image manipulation tools, somewhat old now.\nImg - image manipulation, displays on X11 screen, a bit old now.\nxflick - Plays .FLI animation under X11\nXAnim - plays any resolution FLI along with GIF's(including GIF89a animation\n\textensions), DL's and Amiga IFF animations(3,5,J,l) and IFF\n\tpictures(including HAM,EHB and color cycling)\nSDSC - SDSC Image Tools package (San Diego Supercomputing Center)\n\tfor image manipulation and conversion\nCLRpaint - A 24-bit paint program for SGI 24bit workstations and 8bit Indigos.\n\nLibraries with code for graphics:\n---------------------------------\n\nGraphics Gems I,II,III - code from the ever so useful books.\nspline-patch.tar.Z - spline patch ray intersection routines by Sean Graves\nkaleido - Computation and 3D Display of Uniform Polyhedra. Mirrored in\n\twuarchive. This package computes (and displays) the metrical\n\tproperties of 75 polyhedra. Author: Dr. Zvi Har'El,\n\te-mail: rl@gauss.technion.ac.il\n\n(*) means site is an \"official\" distributor, so is most up to date.\n\n\nNORTH AMERICA (please look for things on your own continent first...):\n-------------\n\nwuarchive.wustl.edu [128.252.135.4]: /graphics/graphics - get CONTENTS file\n\tfor a roadmap. /graphics/graphics/objects/TDDD - *the TTDDD objects\n\tand converters*, /mirrors/unix-c/graphics - Rayshade ray tracer, MTV\n\tray tracer, Vort ray tracer, FBM, PBMPLUS, popi, Utah raster toolkit.\n\t/mirrors/msdos/graphics - DKB ray tracer, FLI RayTracker demos.\n\t/pub/rad.tar.Z - *SGI_RAD*, /graphics/graphics/radiosity - Radiance\n\tand Indian radiosity package. /msdos/ddjmag/ddj9209.zip - version 21\n\tof Xsharp, with fast texture mapping. There's lots more, including\n\tbibs, Graphics Gems I & II code, OFF, RTN, Radiance, NFF, SIPP, spline\n\tpatch intersection routines, textbook errata, source code from Roy\n\tHall's book \"Illumination and Color in Computer Generated Imagery\", etc\n\tgraphics/graphics/packages/kaleido - *kaleido*\n\tGeorge Kyriazis \n\nprinceton.edu [128.112.128.1]: /pub/Graphics (note capital \"G\") - *Rayshade\n\t4.0 ray tracer (and separate 387 executable)*, *color quantization\n\tcode*, *SPD*, *RT News*, *Wilson's RT abstracts*, \"RT bib*, *Utah\n\tRaster Toolkit*, newer FBM, *Graphics Gems I, II & III code*.\n\t/pub/graphics directory - *SALEM* and other stuff.\n\tCraig Kolb \n\t[replaces weedeater.math.yale.edu - note the capital \"G\" in\n\tpub/Graphics] Because there's a trouble with princeton's incoming\n\tarea, you can upload Rayshade-specific stuff to\n\tweedeater.math.yale.edu [128.36.23.17]\n\nalfred.ccs.carleton.ca [134.117.1.1]: /pub/dkbtrace - *DKB ray tracer*,\n\t/pub/pov-ray/POV-Ray1.0 - *PVRay Compuserve group ray tracer (or PoV)*.\n\tDavid Buck \n\navalon.chinalake.navy.mil [129.131.31.11]: 3D objects (multiple formats),\n\tutilities, file format documents.\n\tThis site was created to be a 3D object \"repository\" for the net.\n\tFrancisco X DeJesus \n\nomicron.cs.unc.edu [152.2.128.159]: pub/softlab/CHVRTD - Chapel Hill\n\tVolume Rendering Test Datasets.\n\nftp.mv.com [192.80.84.1]: - Official DDJ FTP repository.\n\t*XSHARP*\n\npeipa.essex.ac.uk [155.245.115.161]: the Pilot European Image Processing\n\tArchive; in a directory ipa/synth or something like that, there are\n\timage synthesis packages.\n\tAdrian Clarke \n\nbarkley.berkeley.edu [128.32.142.237] : tcl/extensions/tsipp3.0b.tar.Z -\n\t*Tcl-SIPP*\n\tMark Diekhans \n\nacs.cps.msu.edu [35.8.56.90]: pub/sass - *X window fonts converter into\n\tRayshade 3.0 polygons*, Rayshade animation tool(s).\n\tRon Sass \n\nhobbes.lbl.gov [128.3.12.38]: *Radiance* ray trace/radiosity package.\n\tGreg Ward \n\ngeom.umn.edu [128.101.25.31] : pub/geomview - *GEOMVIEW*\n\tContact (for GEOMVIEW): software@geom.umn.edu\n\nftp.arc.umn.edu [137.66.130.11] : pub/gvl.tar.Z - the latest version of Bob,\n\tIcol and Raz. Source, a manual, man pages, and binaries for\n\tIRIX 4.0.5 are included (Bob is a real time volume renderer)\n\tpub/ contains also many volume datasets.\n\tKen Chin-Purcell \n\nftp.kpc.com [144.52.120.9] : /pub/graphics/holl91 - Steve Hollasch's\n\tThesis, /pub/graphics/ray4 - *RAY4*, /pub/graphics/wire4 - *WIRE4*.\n\t/pub/mirror/avalon - mirror of avalon's 3D objects repository.\n\tSteve Hollasch \n\nswedishchef.lerc.nasa.gov [139.88.54.33] : programs/hollasch-4d - RAY4,\n\tSGI Explorer modules and Postscript manual, etc.\n\nzamenhof.cs.rice.edu [128.42.1.75] : pub/graphics.formats - Various electronic\n\tdocuments about many object and image formats.\n\tMark Hall \n\twill apparently no longer be maintaining it, see ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu.\n\nrascal.ics.utexas.edu [128.83.144.1]: /misc/mac/inqueue - VISION-3D facet\n\tbased modeller, can output RayShade and Radiance files.\n\nftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.20.50] : misc/file.formats/graphics.formats -\n\tcontains various image- and object-format descriptions. Many SciVi\n\ttools in various directories, e.g. SGI/Alpha-shape/Alvis-1.0.tar.Z -\n\t3D alpha-shape visualizer (SGI machines only),\n\tSGI/Polyview3.0/polyview.Z - interactive visualization and analysis of\n\t3D geometrical structures.\n\tQuincey Koziol \n\ntucana.noao.edu [140.252.1.1] : /iraf - the IRAF astronomy package\n\nftp.ipl.rpi.edu [128.113.14.50]: sigma/erich - SPD images and Haines thesis\n\timages. pub/images - various 24 and 8 bit image stills and sequences.\n\tKevin Martin \n\nftp.psc.edu [128.182.66.148]: pub/p3d - p3d_2_0.tar P3D lispy scene\n\tlanguage & renderers. Joel Welling \n\nftp.ee.lbl.gov [128.3.254.68]: *pbmplus.tar.Z*, RayShade data files.\n\tJef Poskanzer \n\ngeorge.lbl.gov [128.3.196.93]: pub/ccs-lib/ccs.tar.Z - *CCS (Complex\n\tConversion System), a standard software interface for image processing*\n\nhanauma.stanford.edu [36.51.0.16]: /pub/graphics/Comp.graphics - best of\n\tcomp.graphics (very extensive), ray-tracers - DBW, MTV, QRT, and more.\n\tJoe Dellinger \n\nftp.uu.net [192.48.96.2]: /graphics - *IRIT*, RT News back issues (not\n\tcomplete), NURBS models, other graphics related material.\n\t/graphics/jpeg/jpegsrc.v?.tar.Z - Independent JPEG Group package for\n\treading and writing JPEG files.\n\nfreebie.engin.umich.edu [141.212.68.23]: *Utah Raster Toolkit*,\n\tSpencer Thomas \n\nexport.lcs.mit.edu [18.24.0.12] : /contrib - pbmplus, Image Magick, xloadimage,\n\txli, xv, Img, lots more. /pub/R5untarred/mit/demos/gpc - NCGA Graphics\n\tPerformance Characterization (GPC) Suite.\n\nlife.pawl.rpi.edu [128.113.10.2]: /pub/ray - *Kyriazis stochastic Ray Tracer*.\n\tGeorge Kyriazis \n\ncs.utah.edu [128.110.4.21]: /pub - Utah raster toolkit, *NURBS databases*.\n\tJamie Painter \n\ngatekeeper.dec.com [16.1.0.2]: /pub/DEC/off.tar.Z - *OFF models*,\n\tAlso GPC Benchmark files (planned, but not checked).\n\tRandi Rost \n\nhubcap.clemson.edu [130.127.8.1]: /pub/amiga/incoming/imagine - stuff for the\n\tAmiga Imagine & Turbo Silver ray tracers. /pub/amiga/TTDDDLIB -\n\t*TTDDDLIB* /pub/amiga/incoming/imagine/objects - MANY objects.\n\tGlenn Lewis \n\npprg.eece.unm.edu [129.24.24.10]: /pub/khoros - *Khoros image processing\n\tpackage (huge, but great)*.\n\tDanielle Argiro \n\nexpo.lcs.mit.edu [18.30.0.212]: contrib - *PBMPLUS portable bitmap package*,\n\t*poskbitmaptars bitmap collection*, *Raveling Img*, xloadimage. Jef\n\tPoskanzer \n\nvenera.isi.edu [128.9.0.32]: */pub/Img.tar.z and img.tar.z - some image\n\tmanipulation*, /pub/images - RGB separation photos.\n\tPaul Raveling \n\nucsd.edu [128.54.16.1]: /graphics - utah rle toolkit, pbmplus, fbm,\n\tdatabases, MTV, DBW and other ray tracers, world map, other stuff.\n\tNot updated much recently.\n\ncastlab.engr.wisc.edu [128.104.52.10]: /pub/x3d.2.2.tar.Z - *X3D*\n\t/pub/xdart.1.1.* - *XDART*\n\tMark Spychalla \n\nsgi.com [192.48.153.1]: /graphics/tiff - TIFF 6.0 spec & *LIBTIFF* software\n\tand pics. Also much SGI- and GL-related stuff (e.g. OpenGL manuals)\n\tSam Leffler \n\t[supercedes okeeffe.berkeley.edu for the LIBTIFF stuff]\n\nsurya.waterloo.edu [129.97.129.72]: /graphics - FBM, ray tracers\n\nftp.sdsc.edu [132.249.20.22]: /sdscpub - *SDSC*\n\nftp.brl.mil [128.63.16.158]: /brl-cad - information on how to get the\n\tBRL CAD package & ray tracer. /images - various test images.\n\tA texture library has also begun here.\n\tLee A. Butler \n\ncicero.cs.umass.edu [128.119.40.189]: /texture_temp - 512x512 grayscale\n\tBrodatz textures,\n\tfrom Julien Flack .\n\nkarazm.math.uh.edu [129.7.7.6]: pub/Graphics/rtabs.shar.12.90.Z - *Wilson's\n\tRT abstracts*, VM_pRAY.\n\tJ. Eric Townsend \n\nftp.pitt.edu [130.49.253.1]: /users/qralston/images - 24 bit image archive\n\t(small). James Ralston Crawford \n\nftp.tc.cornell.edu [128.84.201.1]: /pub/vis - *VREND*\n\nsunee.waterloo.edu [129.97.50.50]: /pub/raytracers - vivid, *REND386*\n\t[or sunee.uwaterloo.ca]\n\narchive.umich.edu [141.211.164.153]: /msdos/graphics - PC graphics stuff.\n\t/msdos/graphics/raytrace - VIVID2.\n\napple.apple.com [130.43.2.2?]: /pub/ArchiveVol2/prt.\n\nresearch.att.com [192.20.225.2]: /netlib/graphics - *SPD package*, ~/polyhedra -\n\t*polyhedra databases*. (If you don't have FTP, use the netlib\n\tautomatic mail replier: UUCP - research!netlib, Internet -\n\tnetlib@ornl.gov. Send one line message \"send index\" for more info,\n\t\"send haines from graphics\" to get the SPD)\n\nsiggraph.org [128.248.245.250]: SIGGRAPH archive site.\n\tpublications - *Online Bibliography Project*, Conference proceedings\n\tin various electronic formats (papers, panels), SIGGRAPH Video Review\n\tinformation and order forms.\n\tOther stuff in various directories.\n\tAutomatic mailer is archive-server@siggraph.org (\"send index\").\n\nftp.cs.unc.edu [128.109.136.159]: pub/reaction_diffusion - Greg Turk's work on\n\treaction-diffusion textures, X windows code (SIGGRAPH '91)\n\navs.ncsc.org [128.109.178.23]: ~ftp/VolVis92 - Volume datasets from the\n\tBoston Workshop on Volume Visualization '92. This site is also the\n\tInternational AVS Center.\n\tTerry Myerson \n\nuvacs.cs.virginia.edu [128.143.8.100]: pub/suit/demo/{sparc,dec,etc} - SUIT\n\t(Simple User Interface Toolkit). \"finger suit@uvacs.cs.virginia.edu\"\n\tto get detailed instructions.\n\nnexus.yorku.ca [130.63.9.66]: /pub/reports/Radiosity_code.tar.Z - *RAD*\n\t/pub/reports/Radiosity_thesis.ps.Z - *RAD MSc. Thesis*\n\t[This site will be changed to ftp.yorku.ca in the near future]\n\nmilton.u.washington.edu [128.95.136.1] - ~ftp/public/veos - VEOS Virtual\n\tReality and distributed applications prototyping environment\n\tfor Unix. Veos Software Support : veos-support@hitl.washington.edu\n oldpublic/fly - FLY! 3D Visualization Software demo.\n That package is built for \"fly-throughs\" from various datasets in\n near real-time. There are binaries for many platforms.\n\tAlso, much other Virtual Reality stuff.\n\nzug.csmil.umich.edu [141.211.184.2]: X-Xpecs 3D files (an LCD glass shutter\n\tfor Amiga computers - great for VR stuff!)\n\nsugrfx.acs.syr.edu [128.230.24.1]: Various stereo-pair images.\n[ Has closed down :-( ]\n\nsunsite.unc.edu [152.2.22.81]: /pub/academic/computer-science/virtual-reality -\n\tFinal copy of the sugrfx.acs.syr.edu archive that ceased to exist.\n\tIt contains Powerglove code, VR papers, 3D images and IRC research\n\tmaterial.\n\tJonathan Magid \n\narchive.cis.ohio-state.edu [128.146.8.52]: pub/siggraph92 - Code for\n\tSiggraph '92 Course 23 (Procedural Modeling and Rendering Techniques)\n\tDr. David S. Ebert \n\nlyapunov.ucsd.edu [132.239.86.10]: This machine is considered the\n\trepository for preprints and programs for nonlinear dynamics,\n\tsignal processing, and related subjects (and fractals, of course!)\n\tMatt Kennel \n\ncod.nosc.mil [128.49.16.5]: /pub/grid.{ps,tex,ascii} - a short survey of\n\tmethods to interpolate and contour bivariate data\n\nics.uci.edu [128.195.1.1]: /honig --- Various stereo-pair images,\n\tmovie.c - animates a movie on an X display (8-bit and mono) with\n\tdigital subtraction.\n\ntaurus.cs.nps.navy.mil [131.120.1.13]: pub/dabro/cyberware_demo.tar.Z - Human\n\thead data\n\npioneer.unm.edu [129.24.9.217]: pub/texture_maps - Hans du Buf's grayscale\n\ttest textures (aerial swatches, Brodatz textures, synthetic swatches).\n\tSpace & planetary image repository. Provides access to >150 CD-ROMS\n\twith data/images (3 on-line at a time).\n pub/info/beginner-info - here you should start browsing.\n Colby Kraybill .\n\ncs.brown.edu [128.148.33.66] : *SRGP/SPHIGS* . For more info on SRGP/SPHIGS:\n mail -s 'software-distribution' graphtext@cs.brown.edu\n\npdb.pdb.bnl.gov [130.199.144.1] has data about various organic molecules,\n bonds between the different atoms, etc.\n Atomic coordinates (and a load of other stuff) are contained in the\n \"*.ent\" files, but the actual atomic dimemsions seem to be missing.\n You could convert these data to PoV, rayshade, etc.\n\nbiome.bio.ns.ca [142.2.20.2] : /pub/art - some Renoir paintings,\n Escher's pictures, etc.\n\nic16.ee.umanitoba.ca [] : /specmark - sample set of images from the\n `Images from the Edge' CD-ROM (images of atomic landscapes, advanced\n semiconductors, superconductors and experimental surface\n chemistry among others). Contact ruskin@ee.umanitoba.ca\n\nexplorer.dgp.toronto.edu [128.100.1.129] : pub/sgi/clrpaint - *CLRpaint*\n pub/sgi/clrview.* - CLRview, a tool that aids in visualization\n of GIS datasets in may formats like DXF, DEM, Arc/Info, etc.\n\names.arc.nasa.gov [128.102.18.3]: pub/SPACE/CDROM - images from Magellan\n and Viking missions etc. Get pub/SPACE/Index first.\n pub/SPACELINK has most of the SpaceLink service data (see below)\n e-mail server available: send mail to archive-server@ames.arc.nasa.gov\n (or ames!archive-server) with subject:\"help\"\n or \"send SPACE Index\" (without the quotes!)\n Peter Yee \n\npubinfo.jpl.nasa.gov [128.149.6.2]: images, other data, etc. from JPL\n missions. Modem access at (818)-354-1333 (no parity, 8 data bits, 1\n stop bit).\n newsdesk@jplpost.jpl.nasa.gov or phone (818)-354-7170\n\nspacelink.msfc.nasa.gov [128.158.13.250] (passwd:guest) : space graphics\n and GIF images from NASA's planetary probes and the Hubble Telescope.\n Main function is support for teachers (you can telnet also to this\n site). Dial up access: (205)-895-0028 (300/1200/2400/9600(V.32) baud,\n 8 bits, no parity, 1 stop bit).\n\nstsci.edu [130.167.1.2] : Hubble Space Telescope stuff (images and other\n data). Read the README first!\n Pete Reppert or Chris O'Dea \n\npit-manager.mit.edu [18.172.1.27]: /pub/usenet/news.answers - the land of\n\tFAQs. graphics and pictures directories of particular interest.\n\t[Also available from mail-server@pit-manager.mit.edu by sending a mail\n\tmessage containing: help]\n\nUUCP archive: avatar - RT News back issues. For details, write Kory Hamzeh\n\t\n\n\nEUROPE:\n-------\n\nnic.funet.fi [128.214.6.100]: *pub/sci/papers - *Paper bank project,\n\tincluding Pete Shirley's entire thesis (with pics)*, *Wilson's RT\n\tabstracts*, pub/misc/CIA_WorldMap - CIA world data bank,\n\tcomp.graphics.research archive, *India*, and much, much more.\n\tJuhana Kouhia \n\ndasun2.epfl.ch [128.178.62.2]: Radiance. Good for European sites, but\n\tdoesn't carry the add-ons that are available for Radiance.\n\nisy.liu.se [130.236.1.3]: pub/sipp/sipp-3.0.tar.Z - *SIPP* scan line z-buffer\n\tand Phong shading renderer. Jonas Yngvesson \n\nirisa.fr [131.254.2.3]: */iPSC2/VM_pRAY ray tracer*, SPD, /NFF - many non-SPD\n\tNFF format scenes, RayShade data files. Didier Badouel\n\t [may have disappeared]\n\nphoenix.oulu.fi [130.231.240.17]: *FLI RayTracker animation files (PC VGA) -\n\talso big .FLIs (640*480)* *RayScene demos* [Americans: check wuarchive\n\tfirst]. More animations to come. Jari Kahkonen\n\t\n\njyu.fi [128.214.7.5]: /pub/graphics/ray-traces - many ray tracers, including\n\tVM_pRAY, DBW, DKB, MTV, QRT, RayShade, some RT News, NFF files. Jari\n\tToivanen \n\ngarbo.uwasa.fi [128.214.87.1]: Much PC stuff, etc., /pc/source/contour.f -\n\tFORTRAN program to contour scattered data using linear triangle-based\n\tinterpolation\n\nasterix.inescn.pt [192.35.246.17]: pub/RTrace - *RTrace* nffutils.tar.Z (NFF\n\tutilities for RTrace), medical data (CAT, etc.) converters to NFF,\n\tAutocad to NFF Autolisp code, AUTOCAD 11 to SCN (RTrace's language)\n\tconverter and other goodies. Antonio Costa (acc@asterix.inescn.pt)\n\nvega.hut.fi [128.214.3.82]: /graphics - RTN archive, ray tracers (MTV, QRT,\n\tothers), NFF, some models.\n[ It was shut down months ago , check under nic.funet.fi -- nfotis ]\n\nsun4nl.nluug.nl [192.16.202.2]: /pub/graphics/raytrace - DBW.microray, MTV, etc\n\nunix.hensa.ac.uk [] : misc/unix/ralcgm/ralcgm.tar.Z - CGM viewer and\n converter.\n There's an e-mail server also - mail to archive@unix.hensa.ac.uk\n with the message body \"send misc/unix/ralcgm/ralcgm.tar.Z\"\n\nmaeglin.mt.luth.se [130.240.0.25]: graphics/raytracing - prt, others, ~/Doc -\n\t*Wilson's RT abstracts*, Vivid.\n\nftp.fu-berlin.de [130.20.225.2]: /pub/unix/graphics/rayshade4.0/inputs -\n\taq.tar.Z is RayShade aquarium [Americans: check princeton.edu first).\n\tHeiko Schlichting \n\nmaggia.ethz.ch [129.132.17.1]: pub/inetray - *Inetray* and Sun RPC 4.0 code\n\tAndreas Thurnherr \n\nosgiliath.id.dth.dk [129.142.65.24]: /pub/amiga/graphics/Radiance - *Amiga\n\tport of Radiance 2.0*. Per Bojsen \n\nftp.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de [134.106.1.9] : *PoV raytracer*\n Mirrored in wuarchive, has many goods for PoV.\n\tpub/dkbtrace/incoming/polyray - Polyray raytracer\n pub/dkbtrace/incoming/pv3d* - *PV3D*\n\nftp.uni-kl.de [131.246.9.95]: /pub/amiga/raytracing/imagine - mirror of\n\tthe hubcap Imagine files.\n\nneptune.inf.ethz.ch [129.132.101.33]: XYZ - *XYZ GeoBench*\n\tPeter Schorn \n\niamsun.unibe.ch [130.92.64.10]: /Graphics/graphtal* - a L-system interpreter.\n\tChristoph Streit \n\namiga.physik.unizh.ch [130.60.80.80]: /amiga/gfx - Graphics stuff\n\tfor the Amiga computer.\n\nstesis.hq.eso.org [134.171.8.100]: on-line access to a huge astronomical\n database. (login:starcat;no passwd)\n DECnet:STESIS (It's the Space Telescope European Coordination Facility)\n Benoit Pirenne , phone +49 89 320 06 433\n\n\nMIDDLE EAST\n-----------\n\ngauss.technion.ac.il [132.68.112.60]: *kaleida*\n\n\nAUSTRALIA:\n----------\n\ngondwana.ecr.mu.oz.au [128.250.70.62]: pub - *VORT(ART) ray tracer*, *VOGLE*,\n\tWilson's ray tracing abstracts, /pub/contrib/artscenes (ART scenes from\n\tItaly), pub/images/haines - Haines thesis images, Graphics Gems code,\n\tSPD, NFF & OFF databases, NFF and OFF previewers, plus some 8- and\n\t24bit images and lots of other stuff. pub/rad.tar.Z - *SGI_RAD*\n\tBernie Kirby \n\nmunnari.oz.au [128.250.1.21]: pub/graphics/vort.tar.Z - *VORT (ART) 2.1 CSG and\n\talgebraic surface ray tracer*, *VOGLE*, /pub - DBW, pbmplus. /graphics\n\t- room.tar.Z (ART scenes from Italy).\n\tDavid Hook \n\nmarsh.cs.curtin.edu.au [134.7.1.1]: pub/graphics/bibliography/Facial_Animation,\n\tpub/graphics/bibliography/Morph, pub/graphics/bibliography/UI -\n\tstuff about Facial animation, Morphing and User Interfaces.\n\tpub/fascia - Fred Parke's fascia program.\n\tValerie Hall \n\n\nOCEANIA - ASIA:\n---------------\n\nccu1.aukland.ac.nz [130.216.1.5]: ftp/mac/architec - *VISION-3D facet\n\tbased modeller, can output RayShade files*. Many other neat things\n\tfor Macs. Paul Bourke \n\nscslwide.sony.co.jp [133.138.199.1]: ftp2/SGI/Facial-Animation - Steve Franks\n\tsite for facial animation.\n \tSteve Franks \n\n\n4. Mail servers and graphics-oriented BBSes\n===========================================\n\nPlease check first with the FTP places above, with archie's help.\nDon't overuse mail servers.\n\nThere are some troubles with wrong return addresses. Many of these\nmail servers have a command like\n path a_valid_return_e-mail_address\nto get a hint for sending back to you stuff.\n\nDEC's FTPMAIL\n-------------\n Send a one-line message to ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com WITHOUT a Subject: field,\n and having a line containing the word 'help'.\n You should get back a message detailing the relevant procedures you\n must follow in order to get the files you want.\n\n Note that the \"reply\" or \"answer\" command in your mailer will not work\n for this message or any other mail you receive from FTPMAIL. To send\n requests to FTPMAIL, send an original mail message, not a reply.\n Complaints should be sent to the ftpmail-request@uucp-gw-2.pa.dec.com\n address rather than to postmaster, since DECWRL's postmaster is not\n responsible for fixing ftpmail problems.\n\nBITFTP\n------\n For BITNET sites ONLY, there's BITFTP@PUCC.\n Send a one-line 'help' message to this address for more info.\n\nLightwave 3D mail based file-server\n-----------------------------------\n A mail based file server for 3D objects, 24bit JPEG images, GIF images\n and image maps is now online for all those with Internet mail access.\n The server is the official archive site for the Lightwave 3D mail-list\n and contains many PD and Shareware graphics utilities for\n several computer platforms including Amiga, Atari, IBM and Macintosh.\n\n The server resides on a BBS called \"The Graphics BBS\". The BBS is\n operational 24 hours a day 7 days a week at the phone number of +1\n 908/469-0049. It has upgraded its modem to a Hayes Ultra 144\n V.32bis/V.42bis, which has speeds from 300bps up to 38,400bps.\n\n If you would like to submit objects, scenes or images to the server,\n please pack, uuencode and then mail the files to the address:\n server@bobsbox.rent.com.\n\n For information on obtaining files from the server send a mail message\n to the address file-server@graphics.rent.com with the following in\n the body of the message:\n HELP\n /DIR\n And a help file describing how to use the server and a complete\n directory listing will be sent to you via mail.\n\n[ Now it includes the Cyberware head and shouders in TTDDD format! Check it\n out, only if you can't use FTP! -- nfotis ]\n\nINRIA-GRAPHLIB\n--------------\n Pierre Jancene and Sabine Coquillart launched the inria-graphlib mail\n server a few months ago.\n\n echo help | mail inria-graphlib@inria.fr\n\n will give you a quick summary of what inria-graphlib contains and \n how to browse among its files.\n\n echo send contents | mail inria-graphlib@inria.fr\n\n will return the extended summary.\n\n As an other example :\n\n echo send cgrl from Misc | mail inria-graphlib@inria.fr\n\n will return the Computer Graphics Resource Listing mirrored from\n comp.graphics.\n\nBBSes\n-----\n There are many BBSes that store datafiles, etc.etc., but a guide to these\n is beyond the scope of this Listing (and the resources of the author!)\n If you can point to me Internet- or mail- accessible BBSes that carry\n interesting stuff, send me info!\n\n\n Studio Amiga is a 3D modelling and ray tracing specific BBS, (817) 467-3658.\n 24 hours, 105 Meg online.\n--\nFrom Jeff Walkup :\n \"The Castle\" 415/355-2396 (14.4K/v.32bis/v.42/v.42bis/MNP)\n (In Pacifica, dang close to San Francisco, California, USA)\n The new-user password is: \"TAO\".\n \n [J]oin base #2; The Castle G/FX, Anim, Video, 3D S.I.G., of which\n I am the SIG-Op, \"Lazerus\".\n--\n Bob Lindabury operates a BBS (see above the entry for \"The Graphics BBS\")\n--\n'You Can Call Me Ray' ray tracing related BBS in Chicago suburbs (708-358-5611)\n or (708-358-8721)\n--\n Digital Pixel (Sysop: Mark Ng ) is based at\n Toronto, Ontario, Canada.\n \n Phone : (416) 298 1487\n Storage space: 330 megs\n Modem type: 14.4k baud,16.8k (Zyxel) , v32bis ,v32, mnp 5\n\n Access Fee: none.. (free)\n System supported : DOS, OS/2, Amiga, Mac. \n Netmail: Currently no echo mail.\n Topics: Raytracing, Fractals, Graphics programming, CAD, Any Comp.\n Graphics related \n\n--\nFrom: David Tiberio \n\n Amiga Graphics BBS (516) 473-6351 in Long Island, New York,\n running 24 hours at 14.4k v.32bis, with 157 megs on line.\n We also subscribe to 9 mailing lists, of which 5 originate\n from our BBS, with 3 more to be added soon. These include:\n\n Lightwave, Imagine, Real 3D (ray tracing)\n\n Database files include:\n Imagine 3D objects, 3D renderings, scalable fonts, music\n modules, sound samples, demos, animations, utilities,\n text databases, and pending Lightwave 3D objects.\n--\nThe Graphics Alternative\n\n The Graphics Alternative is in El Cerrito, CA., running 24 hours a\n day at 14.4k HST/v.32bis, with 642MB online and a 1300+ user base.\n TGA runs two nodes, node 1 (510) 524-2780 is for public access and\n includes a free 90 day trial subscription. TGA is the West Coast\n Host for PCGnet, The Profesional CAD and Graphics Network, supporting\n nodes across the Continental U.S., Alaska, New Zealand, Australia,\n France and the UK.\n \n TGA's file database includes MS-DOS executables for POV, Vivid,\n RTrace, Rayshade, Polyray, and others. TGA also has numerous\n graphics utilities, viewers, and conversion utilities. Registered\n Vivid users can also download the latest Vivid aeta code from a\n special Vivid conference.\n\n--\nFrom: Scott Bethke \n\nThe Intersection BBS, 410-250-7149.\n\n This BBS Is dedicated to supporting 3D Animators.The system is provided\n FREE OF CHARGE, and is NOT Commercialized in ANYWAY.\n Users are given FULL Access on the first call.\n\nFeatures: Usenet NEWS & Internet Mail, Fidonet Echo's & Netmail,\n\t200 Megs online, V.32bis/V.42bis Modem.\n\nPlatforms of interest: Amiga & The VideoToaster, Macintosh, Ms-Dos,\n\tUnix Workstations (Sun, SGI, etc), Atari-ST.\n--\nFrom: Alfonso Hermida :\n\n Pi Square BBS (301)725-9080 in Maryland. It supports raytracers such as POV\n and VIVID. The BBS runs off a 486/33Mhz, 100Megs hard drive and CD ROM.\n Now it runs on 1200-2400bps (this will change soon)\n\n Topics: graphics programming, animation,raytracing,programming (general)\n--\nFrom: Lynn Falkow :\n\n Vertech Design's GRAPHIC CONNECTION. (503) 591-8412 in Portland, Oregon.\n V.32/V.42bis.\n\n The BBS, aside from carrying typical BBS services like message bases\n ( all topic specific ) and files ( CAD and graphics related -- hundreds\n of megabytes ), also offers material texture files that are full color,\n seamlessly tiling, photo-realistic images. There are samples available\n to first time callers. The BBS is a subscription system although callers\n have 2 hours before they must subscribe, and there are several subscription\n rates available. People interested in materials can subscribe to the\n library in addition to a basic subscription rate, and can use their\n purchased time to download whichever materials they wish.\n\n==========================================================================\n\n5. Ray-tracing/graphics-related mailing lists\n=============================================\n\nImagine\n-------\n Modeling and animation system for the Amiga:\n send subscription requests to Imagine-request@email.sp.paramax.com\n send material to Imagine@email.sp.paramax.com\n (Dave Wickard has substituted Steve Worley in the maintenance of\n the mailing list) - PLEASE note that the unisys.com address is\n NO longer valid!!!\n\nLightwave\n---------\n (for the Amiga. It's part of Newtek's Video Toaster):\n send subscription requests to lightwave-request@bobsbox.rent.com\n send material to lightwave@bobsbox.rent.com\n (Bob Lindabury)\n\nToaster\n-------\n send subscription requests to listserv@karazm.math.uh.edu with a *body* of:\n subscribe toaster-list\n\nReal 3D\n-------\n Another modeling and animation system for the Amiga:\n To subscribe, send a mail containing the body\n\n subscribe real3d-l \n\n to listserv@gu.uwa.edu.au\n\nRayshade\n--------\n send subscription requests to rayshade-request@cs.princeton.edu\n send material to rayshade-users@cs.princeton.edu\n (Craig Kolb)\n\nAlladin 4D for the Amiga\n----------\n send subscription requests to subscribe@xamiga.linet.org\n\n and in the body of the message write\n\n #Alladin 4D username@domain\n\nRadiance\n--------\n Greg Ward, the author, sends to registered (via e-mail) users digests of\n his correspodence with them, notes about fixes, updates, etc.\n His address is: gjward@lbl.gov\n\nREND386\n-------\n send subscription requests to rend386-request@sunee.waterloo.edu\n send material to rend386@sunee.waterloo.edu\n\nPoV ray / DKB raytracers\n------------------------\n To subscribe, send a mail containing the body\n\n subscribe dkb-l \n\n to listserv@trearn.bitnet\n\n send material to dkb-l@trearn.bitnet\n\nMailing List for Massively Parallel Rendering\n---------------------------------------------\n send subscription requests to mp-render-request@icase.edu\n send material to mp-render@icase.edu\n\n==========================================================================\n\n6. 3D graphics editors\n======================\n\na. Public domain, free and shareware systems\n============================================\n\nVISION-3D\n---------\n Mac-based program written by Paul D. Bourke (pdbourke@ccu1.aukland.ac.nz).\n The program can be used to generate models directly in the RayShade\n and Radiance file formats (polygons only).\n It's shareware and listed on the FTP list.\n\nBRL\n---\n A solid modeling system for most environments -- including SGI and X11.\n It has CSG and NURBS, plus support for Non-Manifold Geometry\n [Whatever it is].\n\n You can get it *free* via FTP by signing and returning the relevant license,\n found on ftp.brl.mil. Uses ray-tracing for engineering analyses.\n\n Contact:\n\n Ms. Carla Moyer\n (410)-273-7794 tel.\n (410)-272-6763 FAX\n cad-dist@brl.mil E-mail\n\n Snail mail:\n\n BRL-CAD Distribution\n SURVIAC Aberdeen Satellite Office 1003\n Old Philadelphia Road,\n Suite 103 Aberdeen\n MD 21001 USA\n\nIRIT\n----\n A constructive solid geometry (CSG) modeling program for PC and X11.\n Includes freeform surface support. Free - see FTP list for where to\n find it.\n\nSurfModel\n---------\n A solid modeling program for PC written in Turbo Pascal 6.0 by\n Ken Van Camp. Available from SIMTEL, pd1: directory.\n\nNOODLES\n-------\n From CMU, namely Fritz Printz and Levent Gursoz (elg@styx.edrc.cmu.edu).\n It's based on Non Manifold Topology.\n Ask them for more info, I don't know if they give it away.\n\nXYZ2\n----\n XYZ2 is an interactive 3-D editor/builder written by Dale P. Stocker to\n create objects for the SurfaceModel, Automove, and DKB raytracer packages.\n XYZ2 is free and can be found, for example, in SIMTEL20 as\n XYZ21.ZIP (DOS only??)\n\n3DMOD\n-----\n It's an MSDOS program. Check at barnacle.erc.clarkson.edu [128.153.28.12],\n /pub/msdos/graphics/3dmod.* . Undocumented file format :-(\n 3DMOD is (C) 1991 by Micah Silverman, 25 Pierrepoint Ave., Postdam,\n New York 13676, tel. 315-265-7140\n\nNORTHCAD\n--------\n Shareware, NCAD3D42.ZIP in SIMTEL20. Undocumented file format :-(\n\nVertex\n------\n (Amiga)\n Shareware, send $40 US (check or money order) to:\n\n The Art Machine, 4189 Nickolas\n Sterling Heights, MI 48310\n USA\n\n In addition to the now standard file formats, including Lightwave,\n Imagine, Sculpt, Turbo Silver, GEO and Wavefront, this release offers\n 3D Professional and RayShade support. (Rayshade is supported only by\n the primitive \"triangle\", but you can easily include this output in\n your RayShade scripts)\n\n The latest demo, version 1.62, is available on Fred Fish #727.\n\n For more information, contact the author, Alex Deburie, at:\n\n ad99s461@sycom.mi.org, Phone: (313) 939-2513\n \n\nICoons\n------\n (Amiga)\n It's a spline based object modeller (\"ICoons\" = Interactive \n COONS path editor) in amiga.physik.unizh.ch (gfx/3d/ICoons1.0.lzh).\n It's free (under the GNU Licence) and requires FPU.\n\n The program has a look&feel which is a cross between Journeyman and\n Imagine, and it generates objects in TTDDD format.\n\n It is possible to load Journeyman objects into ICoons, so the program\n can be used to convert JMan objects to Imagine format.\n\n Author: Helge E. Rasmussen \n PHONE + 45 36 72 33 00, FAX + 45 36 72 43 00\n\n[ It's also on Fred Fish disk series n.775 - nfotis ]\n\n\nProtoCAD 3D\n-----------\n Ver 1.1 from Trius (shareware?)\n\n It's at wsmr-simtel20.army.mil and oak.oakland.edu as PCAD3D.ZIP (for PCs)\n\n It has this menu layout:\n\n FILE File handling (Load, Save, Import, Xport...)\n DRAW Draw 2D objects (Line, Circle, Box...)\n 3D Draw 3D objects (Mesh, Sphere, Block...)\n EDIT Editing features (Copy, Move ...)\n SURFACE Modify objects (Revolve, Xtrude, Sweep...)\n IMAGE Image zooming features (Update, Window, Half...)\n OPTION Global defaults (Grid, Toggles, Axis...)\n PLOT Print drawing/picture (Go, Image...)\n RENDER Shade objects (Frame, Lighting, Tune...)\n LAYER Layer options (Select active layer, set Colors...)\n\n+Sculptura\n+---------\n+ Runs under Windows 3.1, and outputs PoV files. A demo can be found\n+ on wuarchive.wustl.edu in mirrors/win3/demo/demo3d.zip\n+\n+ Author: Michael Gibson \n\n\nb. Commercial systems\n=====================\n\nAlpha_1\n-------\n A spline-based modeling program written in University of Utah.\n Features: splines up to trimmed NURBS; support for boolean operations;\n sweeps, bending, warping, flattening etc.; groups of objects, and\n transformations; extensible object types.\n Applications include: NC machining, Animation utilities,\n Dimensioning, FEM analysis, etc.\n Rendering subsystem, with support for animations.\n Support the following platforms: HP 300 and 800's (X11R4, HP-UX 6.5),\n SGI 4D or PI machines (X11R4 and GL, IRIX 3.3.1), Sun SparcStation\n (X11R4, SunOS 4.1.1).\n \n Licensing and distribution is handled by EGS:\n Glenn McMinn, President\n Engineering Geometry Systems\n 275 East South Temple, Suite 305\n Salt Lake City, UT 84111\n (801) 575-6021\n mcminn@cs.utah.edu\n\n [ Educational pricing ]\n The charge is $675 per platform. You may run the system on as many\n different workstations of that type as you wish. For each platform\n there is also a $250 licensing fee for Portable Standard Lisp (PSL)\n which is bundled with the system. You need to obtain an additional\n license from the University of Utah for PSL from the following address:\n Professor Robert Kessler\n Computer Science Department\n University of Utah\n Salt Lake City, Utah 84112\n\n [ EGS can handle the licensing of PSL for U.S. institutions for a\n 300 $USD nominal fee -- nfotis ]\n\nVERTIGO\n-------\n\n They have an Educational Institution Program. The package is used in\n the industrial design, architectural, scientific visualization,\n educational, broadcast, imaging and post production fields.\n\n They'll [quoting from a letter sent to me -- nfotis ] \"donate fully\n configured Vertigo 3D Graphics Software worth over $29,000USD per\n package to qualified educational institutions for licencing on any\n number of Silicon Graphics Personal IRIS or POWER Series Workstations.\n If you use an IRIS Indigo station, we will also licence our Vertigo\n Revolution Software (worth $12,000USD).\n\n If you are interested in participating in this program please send a\n letter by mail or fax (604/684-2108) on your institution's letterhead\n briefly outlining your potential uses for Vertigo together with the\n following information: 1. UNIX version 2. Model and number of SGI\n systems 3. Peripheral devices 4. Third Party Software.\n\n Participants will be asked to contribute $750USD per institution to cover\n costs of the manual, administration, and shipping.\n\n We recommend that Vertigo users subscribe to our technical support\n services. For an annual fee you will receive: technical assistance\n on our support hotline, bug fixes, software upgrades and manual updates.\n For educational institution we will waive the $750 administration fee\n if support is purchased.\n\n The annual support fee is $2,500 plus the following cost for additional\n machines:\n\n Number of machines:\t\t2-20\t\t20+\n Additional cost per machine:\t$700\t\t$600 \"\n\n[ There's also a 5-day training program - nfotis]\n\nContact:\n Vertigo Technology INC\n Suite 1010\n 1030 West Georgia St.\n VANCOUVER, BC\n CANADA, V6E 2Y3\n\n Phone: 604/684-2113\n Fax: 604/684-2108\n\n[ Does anyone know of such offers from TDI, Alias, Softimage, Wavefront,\n etc.??? this would be a VERY interesting part!! -- nfotis ]\n\nPADL-2\n------\n[ Basically, it's a Solid Modeling Kernel in top of which you build your\n application(s)]\n\n Available by license from\n Cornell Programmable Automation\n Cornell University\n 106 Engineering and Theory Center\n Ithaca, NY 14853\n\n License fees are very low for educational institutions and gov't agencies.\n Internal commercial licenses and re-dissemination licenses are available.\n For an information packet, write to the above address, or send your\n address to: marisa@cpa.tn.cornell.edu (Richard Marisa)\n\nACIS\n----\n From Spatial Technology. It's a Solid Modelling kernel callable from C.\n Heard that many universities got free copies from the company.\n The person to contact regarding ACIS in academic institutions is\n\n Scott Owens, e-mail: sdo@spatial.com\n\n And their address is:\n\n Spatial Technology, Inc.\n 2425 55th St., Bldg. A\n Boulder, CO 80301-5704\n Phone: (303) 449-0649, Fax: (303) 449-0926\n\nMOVIE-BYU / CQUEL.BYU\n---------------------\n Basically [in my understanding], this is a FEM pre- and post-proccessor\n system. It's fairly old today, but it still serves some people in\n Mech. Eng. Depts.\n Now it's superseded from CQUEL.BYU (pronounced \"sequel\"). That's a\n complete modelling, animation and visualization package. Runs in the usual\n workstation environments (SUN, DEC, HP, SGI, IBM RS6000, and others)\n You can get a demo version (30-days trial period) either by sending $20\n USD in their address or a blank tape. It costs 1,500 for a full run-time\n licence.\n\n Contact:\n\n Engineering Computer Graphics Lab\n 368 Clyde Building, Brigham Young Univ.\n Provo, UT 84602\n Phone: 801-378-2812\n E-mail: cquel@byu.edu\n\n\ntwixt\n-----\n Soon to add stuff about it... If I get a reply to my FAX\n\nVOXBLAST\n--------\n It's a volume renderer marketed by:\n Vaytek Inc. (Fairfield, Iowa phone: 515-472-2227) , running on PCs\n with 386+FPU at least. Call Vaytek for more info.\n\nVoxelBox\n--------\n A 3D Volume renderer for Windows. Features include direct\n ray-traced volume rendering, color and alpha mapping,\n gradient lighting, animation, reflections and shadows.\n\n Runs on a PC(386 or higher) with at least an 8 bit video card(SVGA is fine)\n under Windows 3.x. It costs $495.\n\n Contact:\n\n Jaguar Software Inc.\n 573 Main St., Suite 9B\n Winchester, MA 01890\n (617) 729-3659\n jwp@world.std.com (john w poduska)\n\n==========================================================================\n\n7. Scene description languages\n==============================\n\nNFF\n---\n Neutral file format , by Eric Haines. Very simple, there are some\n procedural database generators in the SPD package, and many objects\n floating in various FTP sites. There's also a previewer written in\n HP Starbase from E.Haines. Also there's one written in VOGLE, so you can\n use any of the devices VOGLE can output on.\n (Check in sites carrying VOGLE, like gondwana.ecr.mu.oz.au)\n\nOFF\n---\n Object file format, from DEC's Randy Rost (rost@kpc.com).\n[ The object archive server seems to be mothballed. In a future version,\n I'll remove the ref. to it -- nfotis ]\n\n Available also through their mail server. To obtain help about using this\n service, send a message with a \"Subject:\" line containing only the word\n \"help\" and a null message body to: object-archive-server@decwrl.dec.com.\n [For FTP places to get it, see in the relevant place]. There's an OFF\n previewer for SGI 4D machines, called off-preview in\n godzilla.cgl.rmit.oz.au . There are previewers for xview and sunview,\n also on gondwana.\n\nTDDD\n----\nIt's a library of 3D objects with translators to/from OFF, NFF,\nRayshade, Imagine or vort objects.\nEdited copy of the announcement follows (from Raytracing News, V4,#3):\n\n New Library of 3D Objects Available via FTP, by Steve Worley\n (worley@cup.portal.com)\n\n I have assembled a set of over 150 3D objects in a binary format\n called TDDD. These objects range from human figures to airplanes,\n from semi-trucks to lampposts. These objects are all freely\n distributable, and most have READMEs that describe them.\n\n In order to convert these objects to a human-readable format, a file\n with the specification of TDDD is included in the directory with the\n objects. There is also a shareware system called TTDDDLIB (officially\n on hubcap.clemson.edu) that will convert (ala PBM+) to/from various\n object formats : Imagine TTDDD (extension of TDDD?), OFF, NFF,\n Rayshade 4.0, or vort. Source included for Amiga/Unix as executables\n for the Amiga. Also outputs Framemaker MIF files and isometric views\n in Postscript.\n\nP3D\n---\n From Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center. The P3D uses lisp with slight\n extensions to store three-dimensional models. A simple lisp\n interpreter is included with the P3D release, so there is no need to\n have access to any vendor's lisp to run this software.\n\n The mouse-driven user interfaces for Motif, Open Look, and Silicon\n Graphics GL, and the DrawP3D subroutine library for generating P3D\n without ever looking at the underlying Lisp.\n\n The P3D software currently supports nine renderers. They are:\n Painter - Painter's Algorithm, Dore, Silicon Graphics Inc. GL language,\n Generic Phigs, Sun Phigs+, DEC Phigs+, Rayshade, ART ray tracer (from\n VORT package) and Pixar RenderMan.\n\n The code is available via anonymous FTP from the machines\n ftp.psc.edu, directory pub/p3d, and nic.funet.fi, directory\n pub/graphics/programs/p3d.\n\nRenderMan\n---------\n Pixar's RenderMan is not free - call Pixar for details.\n\n==========================================================================\n\n8. Solids description formats\n=============================\n\na. EEC's ESPRIT project 322 CAD*I (CAD Interfaces) has developed a\n neutral file format for transfer of CAD data (curves, surfaces, and\n solid models between CAD systems and from CAD to CAA (Computer Aided\n Analysis) an CAM (Computer Aided Manufacturing)\n\nb. IGES [v. 5.1 now] tries to define a standard to tranfer solid\n models - Brep and CSG. The current standard number is ANSI Y14.26M-1987\n For documentation, you might want to contact Nancy Flower at\n NCGA Technical Services and Standards, 1-800-225-6242 ext. 325\n and the cost is $100.\n This standard is not available in electronic format.\n\nc. PDES/STEP : This slowly emerging standard tries to encompass not only\n the geometrical information, but also for things like FEM, etc.\n The main bodies besides this standard are NIST and DARPA. You can get\n more information about PDES by sending mail to nptserver@cme.nist.gov\n and putting the line\n\tsend index\n in the body (NOT the Subject:) area of the message.\n\n The people at Rutherford Appleton Lab. are also working\n on STEP tools: they have an EXPRESS compiler and an Exchange file parser,\n both available in source form (and for free) for research purposes.\n Soon they will also have an EXPRESS-based database system.\n\n For the tools contact Mike Mead, Phone: +44 (0235) 44 6710 (FAX: x 5893),\n e-mail: mm@inf.rl.ac.uk or {...!}mcsun!uknet!rlinf!mm or\n mm%inf.rl.ac.uk@NSFnet-relay.ac.uk\n\n==========================================================================\n\nEnd of Part 1 of the Resource Listing", "\n\tYou misunderstand. I'm not trying to prove a *cause* for anything. \nMerely pointing out that Ted's assertion that the \"blip\" in revenues was\n\"caused\" by selling to avoid the tax can't be proven.\n\n\n\tNot disputed.\n\n\n\tIt works for any situation. If you believe the market is going up,\ndon't sell.\n\n\tIf believe it's not, sell. But then you'd be selling anyways, wouldn't\nyou?\n\n\tSo where is the evidence that a large number of people suddenly decided\nthat the higher taxes meant they should sell before the year was out?\n\n\tThere isn't any.\n\n\tTed's saying that the increase over the previous year is \"proof\" of\nthat proposition, but I'm saying you can't know that the trend of increasing\ncapital gains revenues wouldn't account for a lot of that increase.\n\t1986 was the height of the housing boom, remember. People were\n\"trading up\" like mad.\n\n\n\tIndeed.", ": Well,\n: \n: 42 is 101010 binary, and who would forget that its the\n: answer to the Question of \"Life, the Universe, and Everything else.\"\n: That is to quote Douglas Adams in a round about way.\n: \n: Of course the Question has not yet been discovered...\n^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nBut it WAS discovered (sort of). The question was \"What is 7 times 8?\"\nWhen Arthur Dent objected that this was, unfortunately, factually\ninaccurate, the effort to discover the question was begun all over.\nThis last effort was, I believe, likely to take far longer than\nthe lifespan of the universe, in fact several lifespans of same!\n--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nMark Wilson, Online Computer Systems. 1-800-922-9204 or 1-301-601-2215\n(Try email address mark@ocsmd.ocs.com....)\nThis file .disclaims everything signed with my .signature, I .mean it!", " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\n\nI dont think you're correct here. There have been no reports of the Bosnians\nMuslims supporting the Nazis in their genocide against the Serbians. The fact is\nthat the Croat govt. using their secret police (called the Ustache, I think)\nwere the prime agents of the Nazis in Yugoslavia against the Serbs.\n \n\n\n", "Pardonon, mi ofte konfuzigxas pri \"mola\" kaj \"malmola\". Do: \"mol-vara\"?\n\n (I was confused between \"soft\" and \"hard\", as in \"software\".)", "Can anyone provide me a ftp site where I can obtain a online version\nof the Book of Mormon. Please email the internet address if possible.", "Reply-to: apoylis@inode.com\n\nIs there a FAQ on Cyrix 486DLC? If I missed it, could anyone please repost\nor email it to me? Thanks in advance.\n\n... Alexander Poylisher, Internet: apoylis@inode.com; FidoNet: 1:2603/106", "I didn't want to quote all the stuff that's been said recently, I\njust wanted to add a point.\n\n The whole question of \"a right to a dark sky\" revolves around the\ndefinition of a right. Moral rights and natural rights are all well and\ngood, but as far as I can see, a right is whatever you or someone\nrepresenting you can enforce. In most civilizations, the government or\nthe church (or both) defines what the rights of the citizens are, and\nthen enforces those rights for them. Here in the U.S., the constitution\nprovides a \"Bill of Rights\" from which most if not all legal rights are\nconsidered to derive. I'm sure that most other countries have\ncomparable documents. If you can persuade a court that you have a right\nto a dark sky derived in some manner from the Bill of Rights (in the\nU.S.), you can prevent (maybe) these billboards from being launched. To\nkeep anyone in the world from launching then gets into international law\nand the International Court of Justice (correct name?) in the Hague,\nsomething I know little about.", "I hope David isn't going to be too upset with me for sticking my nose\nin here again, but here goes......:-)\n\nIt isn't the average temperature that is the key factor here, but rather\nwhich is better at transferring the heat out of the (presumably warmer\nthan ground temperature) battery. Call it a question of thermal\nconductivity, or of insulating ability, or \"thermal mass\" - whatever you\nlike. Question - why does a concrete floor feel cooler than the \nsurrounding dirt when you place your hand on it?\n", "Can someone tell me where to find 120volt 3 watt 40 mA fans that\nfit the standard computer mounting size )ie. 3 and 1/8 inch wide\nand 4 inches diagonal from hole to hole (hole=where bolt or screw\ngoes through. I have found higher (NOISY) fans that are 120 v\n6 watt, but I need a quite fan. I can use 12 volt as well, but\nfound just about all 12 volt fans to be noisy. I also find that\nthe 120 v fans are not only quieter, but the blade shape has a lot\nto do with it. I have a dead fan that was quiet in it's day. It\nhas long blades (like fan blades in a tturbo engine on a jet is\nthe only way I can describe it. The dead fan is ETRI Model 126LH.\nActually it's not dead, it just makes a hideous rattle noise so\nit's stealthy qualities are void. Thanks.\n\n\n", " ^^^^\n ^^^^^^^^\n ^^^\n\nGeez, can I type or what?\n\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDavid Rex Wood -- davewood@cs.colorado.edu -- University of Colorado at Boulder", "\nExactly. Although this may be a dissapointing answer, there has to be an\ninterplay of the two. Personal Ethos and Societal Morality. A person's\nself-generated/learned set of beliefs are usually expressed on a purely\nmental/verbal level, and don't usually find expression in society except in an\nimpure (not in the sense of bad :) ) state. Sometimes this has to be so.\n\n\nAlso, what if one feels oneself to be part of more than one society, in a very\nreal sense? To use the obvious example, there is a political society, and a\nracial society, and a gender society, and sometimes they do not always agree on\nevery issue...\n\n\n\nYes. Perhaps with an infamous \"do what you want so long as it doesn't hurt\nothers?\" The problem with this is that it is merely saying what you CAN do: it\nis not a morality in that it doesn't propound any specifically preferred\nbehaviours.\n\n\nI'll add a hearty \"me two\". However, one could just as well say just because\ncertain actions are moral does not make them legal: one still doesn't really\nget an impression of which one is truly \"right\".\n\n\n\n\nbest regards,", "\n\nAccording to what reasonable principle of justice does standing in intimate\ngeographical and psychological relations to a league give one some privileged\nright to play in it?", "Archive-name: cryptography-faq/part09\nLast-modified: 1993/4/15\n\n\nFAQ for sci.crypt, part 9: Other Miscellany\n\nThis is the ninth of ten parts of the sci.crypt FAQ. The parts are\nmostly independent, but you should read the first part before the rest.\nWe don't have the time to send out missing parts by mail, so don't ask.\nNotes such as ``[KAH67]'' refer to the reference list in the last part.\n\nThe sections of this FAQ are available via anonymous FTP to rtfm.mit.edu \nas /pub/usenet/news.answers/cryptography-faq/part[xx]. The Cryptography \nFAQ is posted to the newsgroups sci.crypt, sci.answers, and news.answers \nevery 21 days.\n\n\nContents:\n\n* What is the National Security Agency (NSA)?\n* What are the US export regulations?\n* What is TEMPEST?\n* What are the Beale Ciphers, and are they a hoax?\n* What is the American Cryptogram Association, and how do I get in touch?\n* Is RSA patented?\n* What about the Voynich manuscript?\n\n\n* What is the National Security Agency (NSA)?\n\n The NSA is the official security body of the U.S. government. It\n was given its charter by President Truman in the late 40's, and\n has continued research in cryptology till the present. The NSA is\n known to be the largest employer of mathematicians in the world,\n and is also the largest purchaser of computer hardware in the\n world. Governments in general have always been prime employers of\n cryptologists. The NSA probably possesses cryptographic expertise many\n years ahead of the public state of the art, and can undoubtedly break\n many of the systems used in practice; but for reasons of national\n security almost all information about the NSA is classified.\n\n Bamford's book [BAMFD] gives a history of the people and operations of\n the NSA. The following quote from Massey [MAS88] highlights the\n difference between public and private research in cryptography:\n\n ``... if one regards cryptology as the prerogative of government,\n one accepts that most cryptologic research will be conducted\n behind closed doors. Without doubt, the number of workers engaged\n today in such secret research in cryptology far exceeds that of\n those engaged in open research in cryptology. For only about 10\n years has there in fact been widespread open research in\n cryptology. There have been, and will continue to be, conflicts\n between these two research communities. Open research is common\n quest for knowledge that depends for its vitality on the open\n exchange of ideas via conference presentations and publications in\n scholarly journals. But can a government agency, charged with\n responsibilities of breaking the ciphers of other nations,\n countenance the publication of a cipher that it cannot break? Can\n a researcher in good conscience publish such a cipher that might\n undermine the effectiveness of his own government's code-breakers?\n One might argue that publication of a provably-secure cipher would\n force all governments to behave like Stimson's `gentlemen', but one\n must be aware that open research in cryptography is fraught with\n political and ethical considerations of a severity than in most\n scientific fields. The wonder is not that some conflicts have\n occurred between government agencies and open researchers in\n cryptology, but rather that these conflicts (at least those of which\n we are aware) have been so few and so mild.''\n\n* What are the US export regulations?\n\n In a nutshell, there are two government agencies which control\n export of encryption software. One is the Bureau of Export\n Administration (BXA) in the Department of Commerce, authorized by\n the Export Administration Regulations (EAR). Another is the Office\n of Defense Trade Controls (DTC) in the State Department, authorized\n by the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR). As a rule\n of thumb, BXA (which works with COCOM) has less stringent\n requirements, but DTC (which takes orders from NSA) wants to see\n everything first and can refuse to transfer jurisdiction to BXA.\n\n The newsgroup misc.legal.computing carries many interesting\n discussions on the laws surrounding cryptographic export, what\n people think about those laws, and many other complex issues which\n go beyond the scope of technical groups like sci.crypt. Make sure to\n consult your lawyer before doing anything which will get you thrown in\n jail; if you are lucky, your lawyer might know a lawyer who has at\n least heard of the ITAR.\n\n* What is TEMPEST?\n\n TEMPEST is a standard for electromagnetic shielding for computer\n equipment. It was created in response to the discovery that\n information can be read from computer radiation (e.g., from a CRT) at\n quite a distance and with little effort.\n\n Needless to say, encryption doesn't do much good if the cleartext\n is available this way.\n\n* What are the Beale Ciphers, and are they a hoax?\n\n (Thanks to Jim Gillogly for this information and John King for\n corrections.)\n\n The story in a pamphlet by J. B. Ward (1885) goes: Thomas\n Jefferson Beale and a party of adventurers accumulated a huge mass\n of treasure and buried it in Bedford County, Virginia, leaving\n three ciphers with an innkeeper; the ciphers describe the\n location, contents, and intended beneficiaries of the treasure.\n Ward gives a decryption of the second cipher (contents) called B2;\n it was encrypted as a book cipher using the initial letters of the\n Declaration of Independence (DOI) as key. B1 and B3 are unsolved;\n many documents have been tried as the key to B1.\n\n Aficionados can join a group that attempts to solve B1 by various\n means with an eye toward splitting the treasure:\n\n The Beale Cypher Association\n P.O. Box 975\n Beaver Falls, PA 15010\n\n You can get the ciphers from the rec.puzzles FAQL by including the\n line:\n\n send index\n\n in a message to netlib@peregrine.com and following the directions.\n (There are apparently several different versions of the cipher\n floating around. The correct version is based on the 1885 pamphlet,\n says John King .)\n\n Some believe the story is a hoax. Kruh [KRU88] gives a long list of\n problems with the story. Gillogly [GIL80] decrypted B1 with the DOI\n and found some unexpected strings, including ABFDEFGHIIJKLMMNOHPP.\n Hammer (president of the Beale Cypher Association) agrees that this\n string couldn't appear by chance, but feels there must be an\n explanation; Gwyn (sci.crypt expert) is unimpressed with this\n string.\n\n* What is the American Cryptogram Association, and how do I get in touch?\n\n The ACA is an organization devoted to cryptography, with an emphasis\n on cryptanalysis of systems that can be attacked either with\n pencil-and-paper or computers. Its organ ``The Cryptogram'' includes\n articles and challenge ciphers. Among the more than 50 cipher types in\n English and other languages are simple substitution, Playfair,\n Vigenere, bifid, Bazeries, grille, homophonic, and cryptarithm.\n\n Dues are $15 for one year (6 issues); more outside of North America;\n less for students under 18 and seniors. Subscriptions should be sent\n to ACA Treasurer, 18789 West Hickory St., Mundelein, IL 60060.\n\n* Is RSA patented?\n\n Yes. The patent number is 4,405,829, filed 12/14/77, granted 9/20/83.\n For further discussion of this patent, whether it should have been\n granted, algorithm patents in general, and related legal and moral\n issues, see comp.patents and misc.legal.computing. For information\n about the League for Programming Freedom see [FTPPF]. Note that one of\n the original purposes of comp.patents was to collect questions such as\n ``should RSA be patented?'', which often flooded sci.crypt and other\n technical newsgroups, into a more appropriate forum.\n\n* What about the Voynich manuscript?\n\n nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) says there is a mailing list on the\n subject. the address to write to subscribe to the VMS mailing list\n is: \n\n the ftp archive is: rand.org:/pub/voynich", "\n\tI think this is a misnomer.\n\n\n\tBut, this just shows then that painful execution is not considered \n\"cruel\" and unusual punishment. This shows that \"cruel\" as used in the \nconstitution does NOT refer to whether or not the punishment causes physical \npain.\n\tRather, it must be a different meaning.\n\n--- \n\n \" I'd Cheat on Hillary Too.\"", "\nWell, it's not that simple -- you're in Earth's magnetic field, and you\ndon't generate electricity -- but it can be done.\n\n\nThe way you power things is with electricity, so the answer to the first\nquestion is definitely yes. (If you meant to say \"propel\" rather than\n\"power\", the answer is \"sort of\".) Yes, you can use interaction with the\nEarth's magnetic field to get electrical power, and there are potential\napplications for this.\n\nHowever, bear in mind that there is no free lunch. The energy isn't\ncoming from nowhere. What such systems do is convert some of the energy\nof your orbital velocity into electrical energy. There are cases where\nthis is a useful tradeoff. Using power obtained in this way for propulsion\nis useful only in special situations, however.\n\nWhat you *can* do is get your power by some other means, e.g. solar arrays,\nand run the interaction with the magnetic field in reverse, pumping energy\n*into* the orbit rather than taking energy out of it.\n\nIf you want more information, trying looking up \"electrodynamic propulsion\",\n\"tether applications\", and \"magsails\".\n\n\nNo. A \"dragless\" satellite does not magically have no drag; it burns fuel\nconstantly to fight drag, maintaining the exact orbit it would have *if*\nthere was no drag. This is why there are quotes around \"dragless\".", "kaldis@romulus.rutgers.edu (Theodore A. Kaldis) writes...\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nActually, my interest in gender issues is not limited to international\nboundaries. Indeed, I often exchange information with Americans about\nissues which concern us, in both countries.\n\n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nAh...someone had mentioned this journal, but gave no further information.\n\n\n\n\n\n\nYes, thank you, though I am really curious as to why this never came out\n(at least not in what I saw, up here in Canada, or on CNN, which is sent\nup here) during the Thomas nomination hearings. Surely, one would think\nthat her claim to having been sexually harassed, would have a great deal\nless credibility if it could be shown that she had herself been guilty of it.\n\n\n\nAhemmm.... It depends. :-)\n\n(For instance, if it were the \"sworn statements\" at the Warren Commission,\nthen yes, I _would_ say that the statements were no better than toilet\npaper, used at that :-), but in most cases, the answer would be \"no\").\n\n---\nWill Steeves, goid@zooid.guild.org \"Neil Hull is GOiD\"\nZOOiD BBS, Toronto, Ontario - The Zoo Of Ids \"GOiDS Rule\"\n(416) 322-7876\n\n\"Solve Patriarchy, Install Peterarchy\"\n - Peter J. Hanus, B.A. (UPEI)", "\nGreat. This site is a complete shadow of the Signetics BBS 8051 directory.\n\nThanks Brian,\n-- \nMont Pierce", "Could someone please tell me how I can access the FAQ for this\ngroup? I'm relatively new, and would like to read it, but\nalthough I've seen it mentioned, I've yet to see it posted. Is\nit archived somewhere or does someone post it to the group on a\nregular basis? or, is it distributed on-demand? I'd appreciate\nany help anyone can give me. \n\nThanks in advance.\n\n\t\t\t- Mary\n\np.s. Please respond via email as the articles expire within 24\nhours on my mail system, and I don't always get a chance to read\neverything. Thanks.\n\n\n===============================================================\nMary Blumenstock mblumens@itsmail1.hamilton.edu", "\nStuff deleted \n\n\nHmmmmmmmmmmmm............................................. \nI can put the same question to followers of any religion. How do you\nMoslems resolve differences of opinion ?? Don't tell me that there\nis one interpretation of the Quran. Read the soc.culture.* newsgroups.\nYou will zillions of different interpretations.\n\n-- Naren\nnaren@TEKIG1.PEN.TEK.COM ", " {deletions}\nYes, this is a valid concern IMHO. With the directly attached fan units I've\nseen, it looks like if the fan were to stop the chip cooling would be \na good bit worse than no heat sink at all. In other words, if the fan stops\nthe unit turns into an insulator and the chip might get hot enough to\nsuffer permanent damage, not just stop working temporarily.\n\nMy Zeos 486DX2/66 (tower case) has a passive heat sink on the cpu, and it's\nlocated so the front fan, which sucks air into the case, blows right on the\nheat sink. If that fan stops the heat sink is still cooled by convection air\nflow so should not see too dramatic a temperature rise. Essentially the \narrangement you're talking about and a good idea IMHO.\n", "I apologize if this article is slightly confusing, and late. The origonal\ndraft didn't make it through the moderators quote-screens. So I did\nviolence to it, but if you remember the article I am responding\nto it should still make sence.\n\n\nWhat, no hello for heathan netters?\n\nI feel all left out now. :(\n\n[deletia- table of content, intro, homosexuality]\n\n\n[deletia- incorrect attributions]\n\nUh, you have your attributions wrong, you were responding\nto my article, so Dan Johnson should be the 1st one.\n\n\n[deletia- no free gifts speil nuked by moderator fiat.]\n\n\nAh, in the _cosmic_ sence.. but who lives in the cosmic sence?\nNot me! Cosmicly, we don't even exist for all practical purposes.\nI can hardly use the Cosmic Sence Of Stuff as a guide to life.\nIt would just say: \"don't bother.\"\n\nLuckily for mortals, there are many sences of scale you can talk\nabout. In a human sence, you can have big purposes.\n\n\nBut the influence of Aristotle, Confucious, Alexander, Ceasar and\ncountless others is still with us, although their works have perished.\n\nBut they have changed to course of history, and while humanity exists,\ntheir deeds cannot be said to have come to nothing, even if they\nare utterly forgotten.\n\n\nOne day, surely. (well, unless you believe in the Second Coming, which\nI do not)\n\nBut in that time we can make a difference.\n\n\nIn the end. But it must be the end; until then, there is all the\npoint you can muster. And when that end comes, there will be nobody\nto ask, \"Gee, I don't think James Sledd's deeds are gonna make\nmuch of a difference, ulitmately, ya know?\".\n\nBut they will have already have made a difference, great or small,\nbefore the end.\n\nWhy must your ends be eternal to be worthwhile?\n\n\nLittle is in the eye of the beholder, of course.\n\n\nI don't doubt it. But I have thought about the cosmic scale. And\nit does not seem to mean much to us, here, today.\n\n\nI would not find this comforting. But perhaps it is merely my\ndefinitions. Here's what I think the relevant terms are:\n\n\"Reality\"\tThat which is real.\n\"Illusion\"\tThat which is not real, but seems to be.\n\"Real\"\t\tObjectively Existing\n\nFor \"reality\" to be an \"illusion\" would mean, then:\n\nThat which is real is not real, but seems to be.\n\nOr:\n\nThat which objectively exists, does not objectively exist, but\ndoes seem to objectively exist.\n\nFrom which we can conclude, that unless you want to get a\ncontradiction, that no things objectively exist.\n\nBut I have a problem with this because I would like to say\nthat *I* objectively exist, if nothing else. Cogito Ergo Sum\nand all that.\n\nPerhaps you do not mean all that, but rather mean:\n\"Objective Reality is Unreachable by humans.\"\n\nWhich is not so bad, and so far as I know is true.\n\n\nHave on. If reality is an illusion, isn't True Reality an illusion\ntoo? And if True Reality is spirit, doens't that make Spirit an Illusion\nas well?\n\nIf I am not distinctly confused, this is getting positively Buddhist.\n\n\nThat is one hell of a statement, although perhaps true.\n\nDo you mean to imply that it was *intended* to be so? If so,\nplease show that this is true. If not, please explain how this\ncan give a purpose to anything.\n\n\nHow does it do that?\n\nWouldn't the world=school w/ intent idea make the world a preparation for\nsome *greater* purpose, rather than a purpose in itself.\n\n\nWhat pressure?\n\n\nIt is not necessary to be a success in human terms, unless your\ngoals either include doing so or require doing so before they\nthemselves can be achived.\n\nIndeed, many people have set goals for themselves that\ndo not include success in human terms as _I_ understand it. Check\nout yer Buddhist monk type guy. Out for nirvana, which is not\nat all the same thing.\n\n\nWhy is learning to love a goal? What happens if you fail in this\ngoal? To you? To God? To the mysterious Purpose?\n\n\n[deletia- question about immortailty and my answer deleted because it was\n mostly quote.]\n\n\nI'll have a crack at that.\n\n(1) The nature of eternal life is neatly described by its name: It is\nthe concept of life without death, life without end.\n\n(2) No. We can put together word to describe it, but we cannot imagine it.\n\n(2a) No metaphor is adequate next to eternity; if it were we could not\nunderstand it either. (or so I suspect)\n---\n\t\t\t- Dan Johnson\nAnd God said \"Jeeze, this is dull\"... and it *WAS* dull. Genesis 0:0", "*yawn* The Church of Kibology did it first and better.\n", "The San Francisco Examiner reports that Clinton has issued instructions\nto federal law enforcement that they may not kill or injure anyone to \nresolve the Waco situation. So they've built a fence around the compound,\nand are now seriously considering building up the fence to prison-camp\nlevels, pulling out most of the manpower, and waiting however many months\nit takes.", "\n\t\t [Patrick's example of anti-competitive regulations for\n auto dealers deleted.]\n\nLet me try to drag this discussion back to the original issues. As\nI've noted before, I'm not necessarily disputing the benefits of \neliminating anti-competitive legislation with regard to auto dealers,\nbarbers, etc. One need not, however, swallow the entire libertarian\nagenda to accomplish this end. Just because one grants the benefits of\nallowing anyone who wishes to cut hair to sell his/her services without\nregulation does not mean that the same unregulated barbers should be \nfree to bleed people as a medical service without government intervention. \n(As some/many libertarians would argue.) \n\nOn a case by case basis, the cost/benefit ratio of government regulation\nis obviously worthwhile. The libertarian agenda, however, does not call\nfor this assessment. It assumes that the costs of regulation (of any\nkind) always outweigh its benefits. This approach avoids all sorts of \ndifficult analysis, but it strikes many of the rest of us as dogmatic, \nto say the least.\n\nI have no objection to an analysis of medical care, education, \nnational defense or local police that suggests a \"free market\" can provide\na more effective, efficient means of accomplishing social objectives\nthan is provided through \"statist\" approaches. With some notable\nexceptions, however, I do not see such nitty-gritty, worthwhile \nanalysis being carried out by self-professed libertarians. \n\njsh", "\n\n\n\nSociety is the collection of individuals which will fall under self-defined\nrules. In terms of UN decisions all the sets of peoples who are represented\nat the UN are considered part of that society. If we then look at US federal\nlaws provided by representatives of purely US citizens then the society for\nthat case would be the citizens of the US and so on.\n\n\n\"Acceptable\" are those behaviours which are either legislated for the\nsociety by representatives of that society or those behaviours which are\nnon-verbally and, in effect, non-consciously, such as picking your nose on\nthe Oprah Winfrey show, no-one does it, but there is no explicit law against\ndoing it. In many cases there are is no definition of whether or not a\nbehaviour is \"acceptable\", but one can deduce these behaviours by\nobservation.\n\n\n\nIn an increasingly litigation mad society, this trap is becoming exceedingly\ndifficult to avoid. With the infusion and strengthening of ethnic cultures\nin American (and Australian, to bring in my local perspective) culture the\nboundaries of acceptable behaviour are ever widening and legislation may\neventually become the definition of moral behaviour. For instance, some\ncultures' dominant religion call for live sacrifice of domesticated animals.\nMost fundamental christians would find this practice abhorrent. However, is\nit moral, according to the multicultural american society? This kind of\nproblem may only be definable by legislation. \n\nObviously within any society there will be differences in opinion in what is\nacceptable behaviour or not, and much of this will be due to different\nenvironmental circumstances rather than merely different opinions. \n\nOne thing is for sure, there is no universal moral code which will suit all\ncultures in all situations. There may, however, be some globally accepted\nmores which can be agreed upon and instantiated as a globally enforcable\nconcept. The majority of mores will not be common until all peoples upon\nthis earth are living in a similar environment (if that ever happens).", "\nSounds like you were going to a different Penn State or something.\nKampus Krusade for Khrist is very vocal here, but they really have\nlittle power to get anything done. Sometimes it seems like there\nare a lot of them because they're generally more vocal than their\nopposition, but there really aren't that many Krusaders.\n\nThe liberals tend to keep to themselves if they can help it, since\nall they really want is to be allowed to go about their own lives\nthe way they want to. ...so you don't hear from or about most of\nthem. The bible-bangers stand out because they want everyone to\nbe forced to live according to bible-banger rules.\n\nThe Krusaders certainly don't run this place.\n\nI'd say we've got a rather average mix. of people here....\nmuch like the rest of the U.S. And just like everywhere else,\nsome factions are louder than others.", "I guess the cryptowranglers read this group too. But of\ncourse I knew that because it is so easy to do. There is\nnot a single doubt in my mind that every byte that passes\nevery significant gateway or 'bone is captured for the\ncolligation of data about __________? (Maybe your name is here).\n\nMaybe we should start a newsgroup for the distribution of encrypted \nposts intended of members of affinity groups with a shared private\nkey. For example at the coming up Cypherpunks meeting, a private\nkey corresponding to that particular meeting could be passed out\nby a moderator. Minutes, followup comments to other participants,\nand so on could be posted to the alt.encrypted group for the use\nof the people who attended. Communiques intended by the group for\nnon-attendees could of course just be signed using the private key\nbut otherwises not encrypted.\n\nStarting a alt.encrypted newsgroup rather than just maintaining\nmailing lists is better for several reasons. First, it would be\neasier to archive for people who might join a group \"late\" and\nwho might like to easily read earlier posts; second, traffic analysis\nto know exactly to whom an affinity message is directed would be foiled;\nthree, a newsgroup is much more public and would serve to publicize\navailable privacy measures on the internet.\n\nAnd it would be fun to accumulate a secret keyring full of such\nkeys -- it beats giving out t-shirts as a door prize.\n\nWe could send a copy of alt.encrypted directly to Judge William\nSessions or Admiral Studeman to save them the time of having it\ncollected for them.\n\n", "\n\n\nIf by that you mean anything on the GD approach, there was an article on\nit in a recent Avation Week. I don't remember the exact date but it was\nrecent.\n\n Allen\n", "# # \"Abortions destructive of the fetus must be permitted, even\n# # just before birth, if they promote what the [Supreme] Court\n# # calls ``health''\n# \n# Yes, Doug, we all know that Roe v. Wade prevents states from prohibiting\n# abortions necessary to preserve the life or health of the woman. Only\n# very stupid people (such as yourself) confuse a discussion of mental health\n# related to \"Jane Doe\", who was in a mental institution, and attempt to claim\n# that this same argument could be applied to a woman who decided she wanted\n# an abortion because she was having a \"bad hair day\".\n# \n# As you well know, the facts are that there are about 100 third-trimester\n# abortions performed in this country annually, and those are *only* done for\n# *serious* health reasons.\n# --\n# Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet)\n\nHmmm. Human gestation period is something like 39 weeks. That means\nthird trimester abortions are those done after 26 weeks. In consulting\na 1989 World Almanac, I see that 1% of abortions in 1983 were done at \n21 weeks or more. That's about 1268 abortions in 1983 after 21 weeks.\nUnless the number of abortions performed has dropped dramatically, or\na LOT of abortions are done between 21 and 26 weeks, I think you are\nwrong.\n\nBy the way, Roe v. Wade allowed states to adopt very, very broad\nprohibitions on third-trimester abortions, but some states, such as\nCalifornia, declined to do so. It was reported* that what finally \nstopped third trimester elective abortions in the Bay Area wasn't law, \nbut that the only hospital doing them ran out of nurses, then doctors,\nwilling to do them. Not surprisingly, the bay area NOW chapter was\nterribly upset about this.\n\nI remain pro-choice, but when pro-choicers compare abortion in a\nclinic to a religious ritual in a church, you have to start wondering\na bit if the pro-life criticism of abortion as modern human sacrifice\ndoesn't have a grain of truth to it.", "the blood of the lamb.\n\nThis will be a hard task, because most cultures used most animals\nfor blood sacrifices. It has to be something related to our current\npost-modernism state. Hmm, what about used computers?\n\nCheers,\nKent", "\nThey don't move, to anybody much bigger than an electron :-)\n\nnoah", "On 23-Apr-93 in Serbian genocide Work of God?\n\nBingo - that and there's no oil there.\n\nOn 23-Apr-93 in Serbian genocide Work of God?\n\nIf this is the \"work of god\" then I'm doubly glad that I don't worship him.\n\n\n\nDavid Hunt - Graduate Slave | My mind is my own. | Towards both a\nMechanical Engineering | So are my ideas & opinions. | Palestinian and\nCarnegie Mellon University | <<>> | Jewish homeland!\n====T=H=E=R=E===I=S===N=O===G=O=D=========T=H=E=R=E===I=S===N=O===G=O=D=====\nEmail: bluelobster+@cmu.edu Working towards my \"Piled Higher and Deeper\"", "\nOh, Your Highness? And exactly why \"should\" the quotation\nmarks enclose \"laws,\" not \"must.\"\n\nIn case you didn't notice, it's the function of the \"must\"\nthat I wish to ironicise.\n\n\nPerhaps the chimps that failed to evolve cooperative behaviour\ndied out, and we are left with the ones that did evolve such\nbehaviour, entirely by chance.\n\nAre you going to proclaim a natural morality every time an\norganism evolves cooperative behaviour?\n\nWhat about the natural morality of bee dance?", "Two follow up's to Mark's last posting:\n\n\t1. As far as current investigations, the Church recently declared the\n\t crying statue and corresponding messages from Mary at Akita,\n\t Japan as approved (I found this out about a month ago.)\n\n\t2. Again in the proof department, start with the appearances of Mary\n\t at Fatima. Among other things, there were pictures taken of the\n\t \"miracle of the sun\" that appeared in some major American newspaper\n\t (The New York Times, I believe) as well as most of the major\n\t European newspapers. \n\n\t I could talk (or post) for hours on this topic, but... \n\t\t(I have a thesis to write).\n\t\t\t\t\t\tGod Bless,\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t- Mike Walker", "\n\"Widely reported\", eh? Remember, this has had a news blackout since day 2.\nThe FBI is the single, sole, source of these rumors. It may be the truth, but \nit may not be. We may never know. We MUST question it, though. Why no media \ncoverare? What were they hiding?\n\nIt would seem so.\n\n\nThey would still be alive, today. Another day is another chance.\n\naction?\nI think it contributed to the outcome. Folks that are sleep deprived tend not \nto think clearly\n\nI feel strongly they were NOT proper.\n\n\nAs expected. If it had come out well, he would not have hesitated to take full \ncredit.\n\n\nJim\n--\njmd@handheld.com", "\n\"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is\nthe argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.\" -- William Pitt", "THE WHITE HOUSE\n\n Office of the Press Secretary\n_____________________________________________________________________\nFor Immediate Release April 20, 1993\n\n\n PRESS BRIEFING\n BY DEE DEE MYERS\n\n The Briefing Room\n\n\n9:47 A.M. EDT\n\t \n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Okay, today's schedule. As you know, the \nPresident jogged this morning with Senator Wofford. \n\t \n\t At 1:15 p.m., he will have a photo opportunity in the \nRose Garden to present the Teacher of the Year Award. At 1:30 p.m., \nhe will meet with his principal advisors on Bosnia. And at 5:00 \np.m., he'll meet with President Vaclav Havel. There will be a photo \nop at the top of that meeting; no formal press conference afterwards.\n\t \n\t Any questions?\n\t \n\t Q\t Is he moving towards some major decision this week \non Bosnia?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: As we've said, he's continuing to discuss \nhis options. He's been talking extensively with his foreign policy \nadvisors, his Bosnia advisors, as well as with other world leaders. \nHe'll try to contact President Mitterrand again today, and he'll \ncontinue to discuss it. We don't have any specific timetable, but \nobviously the situation there is very serious.\n\t \n\t Q\t Has he called Janet Reno today or yesterday?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I don't believe he's spoken to her today.\n\t \n\t Q\t Why does he have nothing to say about this publicly \nexcept on the piece of paper that was put out last night at 6:40 \np.m.?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: He did. He answered a question about it \nyesterday.\n\t \n\t Q\t Before anything had happened.\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Before anything happened. He put out --\n\t \n\t Q\t Since something has happened he's had nothing to \nsay.\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: He's put out a statement on it last night. \nAnd we'll have more to say about it later today.\n\t \n\t Q\t In what forum is that going to be?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: It will be at the photo in the Rose Garden.\n\t \n\t Q\t He will talk about Waco at that?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Yes, he'll have something to say.\n\t \n\t Q\t Is that something we can take live?\n\t \n\f\n\t MS. MYERS: I think it will be brief. We can talk a \nlittle later about the exact structure as we work it out. But I \ndon't know if it's something you'd want to take live.\n\t \n\t Q\t Will he take questions on Waco at that time as \nwell?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: He'll probably take a few.\n\t \n\t Q\t Is there any reason why he hasn't talked to the \nAttorney General?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I'll have to double-check. I don't know \nthat he hasn't talked to her this morning.\n\t \n\t Q\t And she didn't come here this morning to see him or \nanyone else?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: No.\n\t \n\t Q\t And he didn't talk yesterday?\n\t \n\t Q\t What's the reaction to her resignation statement \nthat she made last night?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: She was asked a question about it, and she \nanswered the question. The President has absolutely no intention of \nasking for the Attorney General's resignation. He stands behind her \n100 percent. As you know, he was informed about the decision. He \ntakes full responsibility for that, and stands 100 percent behind \nAttorney General Reno.\n\t \n\t Q\t The question now arises -- yesterday we were told \nthat he was briefed on this, but we never got a firm idea of how much \nhe knew of what the plan was and the justification for the plan and \nthe justification of the timing. Was he fully informed on all of \nthat, all of this about the increasing levels of violence inside the \ncompound that made them want to go now, the feeling that nothing else \nwas going to succeed, et cetera?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: He talked with the Attorney General about \nthe decision, about -- she talked to him about the factors that led \nto her decision. He raised no objections. He supports her decision \nto go forward with it. He was fully briefed.\n\t \n\t Q\t Of course, hindsight is 20-20, but looking back \nnow, does the President, does the White House feel that the decision \nhe signed off on proved to be the right way to go when you look at \nwhat actually happened?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I think everybody feels bad when life is \nlost. But I don't think that that is reason to second-guess the \ndecision. He stands behind the decision that was made. He was \ninformed about it. He was fully briefed about it and he stands 100 \npercent behind the Attorney General, the Justice Department and the \nFBI. It's a difficult operation and there's -- it had already gone \non for more than seven weeks. Four federal agents had lost their \nlives in the line of duty -- let's not forget that. \n\t \n\t This was a very difficult situation and all the \ndecisions involved were very difficult. But all the agents on the \nground, the FBI, the Justice Department all recommended moving \nforward with this. They thought, given the circumstances, it was the \nbest possible course of action. There's just no point in second-\nguessing those decisions. Now, I think that there's a reason --\n\t \n\t Q\t Why not? They have to --\n\t \n\f\n\t MS. MYERS: No, not to second-guess the decisions. I \nthink it's important to take a look at it, to have an investigation. \nI think the President will talk some about that later today. But at \nthis -- from this vantage point, to second-guess those decisions, \nit's not useful.\n\t \n\t Q\t You sound like he's going to order an investigation \nof what happened and whether --\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I think he'll have more to say about that \nlater, yes.\n\t \n\t Q\t He will order an investigation?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: He'll have more -- yes -- he'll have more to \nsay about an investigation.\n\t \n\t Q\t What kind of investigation?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: He'll have more to say about it later.\n\t \n\t Q\t But in the Monday morning quarterbacking, surely \nthere is some soul-searching now as to whether it was the right \ndecision. You can't say that we did the best we could when it turned \nout to be a rather -- a debacle.\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I think we'll -- obviously, we'll review \nthe situation and all the factors that lead to a very tragic outcome. \nI don't think anybody disputes that the outcome was tragic. But, \nagain, the President stands behind the decisions that were made and \nwe'll take a look at the factors that contributed to that.\n\t \n\t Q\t What was the FBI Director's role in this?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Well, he was obviously involved in setting \nup the operation. He signed off on it, as did the agents that were \non the ground that were working with him. I don't believe he spoke \nto the President, but I'll double-check that.\n\t \n\t Q\t But he was very closely involved in every aspect of \nplanning and so forth?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I would refer you to the FBI on exactly what \naspects he was involved with.\n\t \n\t Q\t Will Janet Reno be coming over to the White House \ntoday?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: There's no planned meeting. I don't believe \nthat she'll be here.\n\t \n\t Q\t She won't be at this event at 1:15 p.m.?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: No, no plans to be.\n\t \n\t Q\t Do you think that there's going to be a jumping on \non the part of political opposition to make something out of this in \nterms of -- to the President's detriment politically?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Well, I would certainly hope that people \nwouldn't try to use this tragedy for political reasons. Obviously, I \nthink, again, that it's useful to look at the facts, to reevaluate \nthe facts, and I think the President will move forward with that. \nBut I think people understand that this was a difficult series of \ndecisions; that it was a very difficult situation; that it was caused \nby a man who was a cult leader who was involved in the death of four \nfederal agents. And I think it's most tragic that a lot of innocent \n\f\nchildren lost their lives in this. I don't think anybody disputes \nthe tragedy of the outcome.\n\t \n\t Q\t Dee Dee, what was the White House role in handling \nthe, I guess, public relations aspect in the aftermath? Who was \ntalking -- who here at the White House was talking with people at \nJustice to set up Reno's news conference, to do all that sort of \nthing?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I think the Attorney General handled her end \nof the situation herself and made the decision to go ahead with the \nnews conference once there was a point at which there was enough \ninformation, I think, to talk with some accuracy about what had \ntranspired during the day. Obviously, people here at a number of \nlevels were keeping in touch with people at the Justice Department \nand at the FBI to try to keep informed about what was happening \nthere.\n\t \n\t Q\t But Reno said that she didn't talk to the \nPresident, and there seemed to be an indication she hadn't talked to \nanybody at the White House. So who --\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: There were people talking on a staff-to-\nstaff level.\n\t \n\t Q\t I understand. But who at the Justice Department \nwas handling that for Reno? Who was talking to the White House?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: There were a number of people. As you know, \nWebb Hubbell is the liaison to the White House, and I know he talked \nto a number of people here. There were a number of people at a \nnumber of different levels involved. I don't want to get into \nexactly who had what conversations with whom, but there were a number \nof conversations. Obviously, the Justice Department was working to \nkeep the White House informed, the press informed to the best of its \nability as events unfolded throughout the day.\n\t \n\t Q\t Did Webb Hubbell talk to the President?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I don't believe so. I don't know if he \ntalked -- he may have at one point.\n\t \n\t Q\t And was the White House role just to seek \ninformation about what happened, or was it to direct the public \ninformation campaign that followed?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: It was both to keep abreast of the situation \nso the President could be on top of it, but I think the Justice \nDepartment managed its press relations on it. We were obviously very \ninterested in what was happening there throughout the day, and the \nPresident was following it very closely throughout the day.\n\t \n\t Q\t Dee Dee, on that, though, if the President was \nfollowing it so closely and he had talked the night before with Janet \nReno, why wouldn't he talk to her at all since then?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Again, I don't know if he's talked to her \nthis morning. Again, he's kept fully aware of what has been going on \nthroughout the day. He stands 100 percent behind her decisions. \nHe's been fully supportive of her, as he said yesterday morning \nbefore events transpired and yesterday afternoon in a written \nstatement.\n\t \n\t Q\t But wouldn't he want to convey those thoughts to \nher personally yesterday?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: One more time, I don't know if they've \nspoken this morning.\n\f\n\t \n\t Q\t No, yesterday.\n\t \n\t Q\t Clearly there's a perception that she was left hung \nout to dry all day yesterday.\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: That's just not true. I think we said \nthroughout the day that the President takes full responsibility, that \nhe stands -- I don't know how much clearer we can be. The President \nstands foursquare behind the Attorney General on this. He accepts \nfull responsibility for the events that transpired. He believes that \nJanet Reno, the Justice Department, and the FBI acted as best they \ncould, given the circumstances and the facts that were evident at the \ntime. I don't know what else he can say to show that he supports her \n1,000 percent.\n\t \n\t Q\t One of the best indications of that is to pick up \nthe phone and tell her.\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Again, I don't know whether they've spoken \nthis morning.\n\t \n\t Q\t Why can't we find out?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Well, we can. I can't do it standing here \nright now.\n\t \n\t Q\t You've got six people here. All they've got to do \nis pick up the phone.\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Helen, we'll get back to you.\n\t \n\t Q\t Dee Dee, when the President spoke with the Attorney \nGeneral on Sunday, is it safe to assume that either she volunteered \nor he inquired about whether there was a possible downside to \nincreasing pressure on the Davidians?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I think that they discussed the situation. \nAgain, I'm not going to get into the specific details of what exactly \nshe told him, but I think that he was aware of the risks involved.\n\t \n\t Q\t Dee Dee, the President yesterday morning said it \nwas entirely her decision. She then said that she told him what was \nhappening and he said, okay. Does the President regard it that he \ngave the go-ahead or that she gave the go-ahead?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I think what they both said yesterday was \nthat she made a decision based on all the available facts. She \ninformed him about that and he raised no objections. Again, I don't \nknow how much clearer we can be about that.\n\t \n\t Q\t And he said, okay. The issue is over the \nresponsibility.\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: He said, okay.\n\t \n\t Q\t Does okay mean --\n\n\t MS. MYERS: The President accepts ultimate \nresponsibility.\n\t \n\t Q\t Dee Dee, the President's investigation that he's \ngoing to announce -- would that be conducted by someone outside the \nadministration?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: No.\n\t \n\f\n\t Q\t It would be internal -- is it meant to preclude any \ncongressional investigation?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: No, it's meant simply to follow up on the \nincidents that occurred yesterday.\n\t \n\t Q\t And you would, I assume, therefore, cooperate fully \nwith any congressional hearings that would be held?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: To the best of our ability.\n\t \n\t Q\t Dee Dee, there are two reports out this morning. \nOne that the Justice Department, or FBI, or whomever, apparently had \na bug planted inside the complex. And the other is that the children \nmay have been injected with some kind of poison that may have either \nleft them unconscious or maybe even killed them before the fire. \nWhat do you know about those two --\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Nothing more than I've seen in news accounts \nthis morning. We may get more on it later, but at this point, I know \n-- I'm not sure anybody knows any more than what was reported by \npeople who came out of the compound.\n\t \n\t Q\t Has the President received any report today in \nterms of fatalities and actually what was going on -- what they've \nbeen able to find out on in the compound now?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: He's been briefed. I don't think that \nthey've gotten into the compound yet. They were still waiting for it \nto cool off. I don't think there's much beyond what's been reported \nin the news accounts. But he has been kept up-to-date on it.\n\t \n\t Q\t Dee Dee, the President stands behind Attorney \nGeneral Reno, but does he feel that she perhaps got bad advice from \nthe so-called experts?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: He believes that she made -- he stands \nbehind the decision that she made. It was the unanimous decision of \nher advisors, of the FBI, of the agents on the ground, and he \nsupports that.\n\t \n\t Q\t What about the validity of the decisions made on \nthe ground? Does he back those --\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: He's not going to second-guess decisions \nmade.\n\t \n\t Q\t Dee Dee, you just said, he stands behind the \ndecision which she made. Normally, in a situation like this, the \nPresident says, I made the decision. But you're saying she made the \ndecision?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I'm saying that the President was briefed \nabout the decision. He okayed it and he accepts full responsibility \nfor it.\n\t \n\t Q\t But then why do you keep using the terminology, the \ndecision that she made, rather than the decision that he made --\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Because, as he said yesterday, she evaluated \nthe facts based on evidence presented to her by Justice Department \nand FBI, which is part of the Justice Department, and made a decision \nand then briefed the President on that decision. That is how the \nchain of command works. She briefed him. He signed off on it. The \noperation went forward, and the President accepts full \nresponsibility.\n\t \n\f\n\t Q\t In that chain of command analogy there, I want to \ngo back to Sessions a moment. Do you know if this was a plan that \ncame through him to Reno, or was it presented to her around him or \nwith his involvement? What was his involvement?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Again, you'd have to go to the Justice \nDepartment for the specific interaction between the Attorney General \nand the Director.\n\t \n\t Q\t Does the President stand behind Director Sessions?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: He supports -- again, I don't know how many \ndifferent ways I can say this -- he supports the decisions made by \nthe Justice Department and the FBI. He fully supports the Attorney \nGeneral in this. I'm not stepping away from the Director of the FBI, \nI want to -- but Janet Reno is the one who briefed him, the one who \nmade the decisions as the head of the Justice Department. As you \nknow, the Director of the FBI reports to the Attorney General. The \nAttorney General made the decision. She informed the President about \nthose decisions. He okayed it. He didn't raise any objections to \nit, and he accepts full responsibility.\n\t \n\t Q\t Do you have, based on what you know here at the \nWhite House, any concerns about William Sessions' performance during \nthis --\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Nothing to suggest that, no.\n\t \n\t Q\t Along those same lines, just in your initial review \nof the situation, how much do you think the problems might have come \nfrom not having a Justice Department that's fully staffed and having \nan FBI Director who is still quite uncertain about his status? \n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I just don't think that had anything to do \nwith it. I think the agents on the ground -- the operation went \nforward. I'm not going to speculate on that.\n\t \n\t Q\t Did the White House express any alarm that Janet \nReno chose to speak to the live network media before she chose to \nspeak to Clinton?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: No. She was carrying forward her \nresponsibility to inform the public about the events of yesterday. I \nthink she did a very admirable job. The President agrees with that.\n\t \n\t Q\t Before Sunday, how often was the President briefed \non the situation in Waco?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: He was kept updated on a regular basis, on a \ndaily basis.\n\t \n\t Q\t Who briefed the President?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Well, I'm not going to get into exactly who, \nwhat conversations he had with whom, but he was kept up-to-date on \nthe events in Waco. He has daily briefings on a number of issues.\n\t \n\t Q\t No, no, was this a regular briefing conducted by a \nWhite House staff person, or was it by a Justice Department person?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: He's briefed regularly by a White House \nstaff on a number of issues. Again, I'm not going to get into \nexactly who briefs him on what subjects.\n\t \n\t Q\t Another subject?\n\t \n\t Q\t On another subject.\n\t \n\f\n\t \n\t Q\t Now we're going to do gays in the military. \n(Laughter.)\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I welcome it.\n\t \n\t Q\t How close are you to signing the biodiversity \ntreaty?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: As you know, the President's giving a speech \non Earth Day tomorrow. We'll have more to say about it then.\n\t \n\t Q\t Any details on where or when that speech is yet?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: It's at 11:30 a.m. and I don't know where \nyet.\n\t \n\t Q\t Dee Dee, is this a major policy address? How would \nyou characterize the speech tomorrow?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I would characterize it as a Earth Day \nspeech. I wouldn't look for any major departures from his past \npositions on these things. But, again, I don't want to get too much \ninto what he's going to talk about tomorrow.\n\t \n\t Q\t On or off campus?\n\t \n\t Q\t Is this at a location outside the White House?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: It will be somewhere in Washington. We \ndon't know exactly where yet.\n\t \n\t Q\t Dee Dee, what foreign leaders has the President \ntalked to since Friday on the situation in Bosnia? \n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Only Prime Minister Major. And again, he'll \ntry to reach President Mitterrand again this morning.\n\t \n\t Q\t David Owen said yesterday and Joe Biden said today \n-- both of them agree that the peace process is not going to work, \nthat the Serbs are not going to sign on. Does the administration \nstill believe that it can work and that they will sign on?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Obviously, the ultimate goal is some sort of \npeaceful resolution to the conflict in Bosnia. As you know, the \nadministration is considering a wide variety of options at this \npoint. The situation there in and around Srebrenica and the rest of \nEastern Bosnia is quite serious. And the President will meet with \nhis Bosnian advisors today and continue to press forward on this.\n\t \n\t Q\t Is that a question they're going to try to be \ndeciding whether or not the peace plan remains viable?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Again, they'll be reviewing a number of \noptions, including the peace plan.\n\t \n\t Q\t Does the group that he's meeting with today include \nReg Bartholomew?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I don't believe he's here. But it will be \namong the usual -- Secretary Christopher, Secretary Aspin, General \nPowell.\n\t \n\t Q\t Dee Dee, do you have anything on the apparent \nencounter by U.S. F-15s over Bosnia today -- some aircraft violating \nthe no-fly zone?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: No, I don't. I'll get back to you on that.\n\f\n\t \n\t Q\t Will the President be meeting with every one of the \nleaders coming to town for the Holocaust Museum?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: He will. He'll be meeting, as you know, \nwith Vaclav Havel today and with Lech Walesa tomorrow, and then with \nthe rest of the group tomorrow afternoon.\n\t \n\t Q\t As a group, or one by one?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I believe it's as a group. Now, Havel and \nWalesa asked for meetings early and these have been on the agenda for \nquite some time. But he will meet with all of the foreign heads of \nstate that are here.\n\t \n\t Q\t Dee Dee, has the President decided whether he \nsupports the gay and lesbian civil rights act? And has anything been \nworked out for him to address the march on Sunday?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I think he'll probably have a letter or some \nkind of a statement to the march. We haven't worked out the exact \ndetails of that.\n\t \n\t Q\t Not a live phone hook-up?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Probably not, given the logistics of getting \nto Boston. The speech, as you know, is at 4:00 p.m. The answer to \nthe other part of your question is, no, he hasn't taken a position on \nit.\n\t \n\t Q\t You said that speech in Boston was at 4:00 p.m.?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I believe so, yes.\n\t \n\t Q\t Do you know what it's on?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: We'll still working out --\n\t \n\t Q\t General Vessey's coming back tonight from Vietnam. \nWhen will he be meeting with the President?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: No specific meeting is scheduled. We'll \ntalk to him at some point and see. We look forward to his report, \nbut exactly how he'll make that report is unclear.\n\t \n\t Q\t So he's not going to come immediately to the White \nHouse?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: No.\n\t \n\t Q\t The AIDS czar -- how close are you?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Still working on it.\n\t \n\t Q\t Drug czar?\n\t \n\t Q\t Do you expect it before the march?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I don't have a time line on it.\n\t \n\t Q\t Did the President ask Senator Mitchell to try the \nLloyd Cutler ploy to break the filibuster?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I don't believe so.\n\t \n\t Q\t Why not?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: He's just not going to.\n\f\n\t \n\t Q\t Are Senate Democrats here at this hour?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: No, that's tomorrow -- tomorrow at 9:30 a.m.\n\t \n\t Q\t Update on the stimulus, possible scaling down --\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: As you know, the Senate will vote on \namendments today. We'll continue to talk. The President is \ncommitted to some kind of a jobs package; we'd like to see it passed. \nAnd we'll continue in conversations throughout the day and see where \nwe end up.\n\t \n\t Q\t When this briefing is over can you give us word \nthrough the speaker or whatever whether the President's talked to \nJanet Reno?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: We'll be happy to.\n\t \n\t Q\t It's become a pressing question for the last \nseveral hours.\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: No, just this minute that I've been here, \nand I haven't had a chance to follow up on it, Helen.\n\t \n\t Q\t Does he have an opinion on Hatfield?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I mean, obviously, he prefers -- he offered \na compromise package of $12.2 billion. He believes that that's the \nbest alternative, believes that he's obviously willing to take a \nsecond look at the package. And I think the Senate will vote on that \ntoday, and we're hopeful that the President's bill, which will be the \nMitchell amendment, will be the one that will be approved.\n\t \n\t Q\t Dee Dee, is there any White House official that \nwill be at the march on Sunday?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Somebody will be there representing the \nPresident. I don't know who yet.\n\t \n\t Q\t Well, has it been decided how he's going to \naddress? Is it going to be a videotape or a phone call?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: I think it will probably be a letter, but \nthere hasn't been a final decision on that yet.\n\t \n\t Q\t The official will read the letter, is that what it \nsounds like?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Correct.\n\t \n\t Q\t Lloyd Bentsen came in here this morning. Do you \nknow what was that about? Was that about this Waco thing?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: No, actually it wasn't. It may have come \nup, but it was about economic issues.\n\t \n\t Q\t On health care -- is the 17th of May still the \ntarget?\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: That's still the target.\n\t \n\t Q\t And there's talk about a Joint Session of Congress \nspeech at the end of May --\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: We haven't resolved exactly how the \nPresident will present the health care plan to the people. I \nwouldn't rule that out as an option, but no decisions have been made.", " \nThe lead-acid secondary cell releases energy (electricity) with the following\nchemical reaction:\n \nPb + PbO2 + 2H2SO4 --> 2PbSO4 + 2H20\n \nLead and Lead (IV) Oxide and Sulfuric Acid produce Lead Sulfate and Water\n \nThe standard heats of formation at 25 C (77 F) of the various compounds are:\n \n Heat of formation\nCompound at 25 C, kcal/mole\n-------- ------------------\n Pb 0.00\n PbO2 -65.0\n H2SO4 -193.69\n PbSO4 -218.5\n H20 -68.3174\n \nThe heat of reaction at 25 C is therefore -60.6 kcal per mole PbSO4 produced.\nNote that lead sulfate is not very soluble (0.0048 grams per 100 grams water\nat 25 C), and it will thus precipitate out of solution where the reaction is\noccurring, or the cathode (positive terminal) of the battery. (I am almost\nsure it is the positive terminal where the precipitate forms, but I may be\nwrong. Oh well, I don't have a corroded battery to corrobate, and I don't feel\nlike thinking through it right now.)\n \nWhat is important to notice here is that the reaction, as you knew it would be,\nis exothermic, or energy discharging. If moisture with dissolved electrolytes\n(acid rain) condenses on the battery, a conductive path between the terminals\nmay form. This will discharge the battery as the chemical reaction proceeds.\nThe reaction is reversible, if electricity (from an alternator or battery\ncharger) is put back into the battery.\n \nLead-acid batteries must change in chemical composition to discharge. Each\ncell has all the reactants necessary for the reaction. The non-reacting posts\n(terminals) of the lead-acid battery are there to remove (or add) electric\nenergy during a discharge (or charge). Because the reaction is exothermic, it\nhas a tendency to happen, though quite slowly under normal circumstances. So\nwhile keeping the battery dry is a good idea, it is not a total solution.\n \nTo understand why lead-acid batteries DO INDEED discharge faster when stored on\nconcrete as opposed to wood or earth (dirt), one should recall LeChatelier's\nPrinciple, which can be paraphrased as: anything subjected to some stress will\nact to move to a more comfortable position. Here are the thermal conductivities\nof a some selected materials:\n \n thermal conductivity\n material Temperature, C (F) BTU/(hr-ft-ft)(F/ft)\n -------- ------------------ --------------------\ndiatomaceous earth, 204 0.051\n natural, across strata 871 0.077\ndiatomaceous, natural, 204 0.081\n parallel to strata 871 0.106\ndiatomaceous earth powder (100) 0.039\n (density, 18 lb/cu.ft) (200) 0.042\n (300) 0.044\n (400) 0.048\n (500) 0.051\nconcrete (cinder) --- 0.20\n (stone) --- 0.54\n (1:4 dry) --- 0.44\npine (across grain) 15 0.087\n (parallel to grain) 21 0.20\noak (across grain) 15 0.12\nmaple (across grain) 50 0.11\n \nNote that the thermal conductivity for \"dirt\" (diatomaceous earth) goes down\nwith temperature. Also, 204 C is about 400 K, and the values for earth powder\nare on the same order of magnitude as natural earth. The thermal conductivity\nof concrete is around a factor of 10 greater than that of dirt, and is 2-4\ntimes greater than wood.\n \nIt is these differences in thermal conductivity that cause the battery on\nconcrete to discharge faster than that on dirt or wood. At any instant the\ndischarge reaction is occurring, energy is being released, either as electricity\nor heat. (Thermal conductivity of air is about 0.015 BTU/(hr-ft-ft)(F/ft).)\nDuring storage, except for the trickle that passes through any condensate on\nthe battery, this energy is mostly released as heat. The higher conductivity\nsurface will remove the heat proportionately faster than the lower conductivity\nsurface. Thus, if you perfectly insulated a dry battery on all but the bottom\nsurface, at any given battery temperature above the storage surface temperature,\nthe battery on a concrete surface will be discharging about 10 times faster\nthan that on dirt.\n \nThis is where LeChatelier's principle comes into play. Removing energy from\nthe exothermic reaction will drive the reaction further to completion. If the\nreaction normally occurs at room temperature, keeping the battery at that\ntemperature requires the removal of any heat produced. A concrete surface is\na better heat sink than a dirt or wood surface. Store a battery in the corner\nof a poured concrete basement, and you have 3 surfaces removing energy, which\n\"pulls\" the reaction along.\n \nAlso, if water evaporates from the battery, that elevates the ratio of sulfuric\nacid to water. This will tend to drive the discharge reaction.\n \nJeff White jhwhit01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu", "\n]Furthermore, in response to an earlier message, the 1992 U.S. est. output of\n]sulfur dioxide (20 mill. tons) was equivalent to the entire output by the recent\n]eruption of Mt. Pinautubo(Sp.). Currently world carbon dioxide levels set at approx.\n]360 ppm, in the past 120,000 years it has never gone above 280 (this info\n]was found using ice core samples from the joint French/Russian/U.S. Vostok\n]project). Furthermore, the background emmisions of chlorine compounds into\n]the atmoshpere is about 0.6 ppb annually, it now sits at 3.5. This OVERWHELMING\n]data/info is found in the World Resources doc. published by Oxford University.\n\nGood evidence.\n\n]The ozone hole in the Northern and Southern Hemispheres keeps getting bigger\n]and stickin' around longer whilst skeptics ponder how wrong or corrupt all this\n]data from government and international scientific institutions is. It is a pity, that,\n]if the skeptics are wrong and we base our complacency on their Limbaugh\n]psycho babble, then we will find ourselves strapped by limited options with\n]which to rectify the primal engineering of our industrial age.\n\nWhat ozone hole in the northern hemisphere?\n\nWhat exactly will happen if we get an ozone hole in the upper atmosphere?\nAccording to the senior chicken-little at NASA, as much more UV radiation\nas if one moved 100 miles south. Certainly not the calamity that is being\nimagined by eco-lunatics. \n\nCO2 is going up. So what. There's no evidence that the increase is\ndue to burning fossil fuels, no evidence that increasing CO2 will increase\ntemperatures, and no evidience that raising temperatures will do anything\nbut good--ie make millions of acres of tundra into productive life-bearing\nland.", "If you would like to understand better the sort of behavior\nthat we saw in connection with the Waco tragedy, I'd strongly\nrecommend reading _When Prophecy Fails_, by Leon Festinger,\nHenry Riecken, and Stanley Schachter (available as a Harper\nTorchbook). It goes a long way towards explaining how a \nbelief system can be so strong as to withstand even overwhelming\ndisconfirmatory evidence. At least, read the first chapter.\nInterestingly, just as the Branch Davidians had roots in the\nSeventh-Day Adventist movement, the SDAs themselves had their\nroots in the Millerite movement of the first half of the 19th\ncentury--a movement that expected the end of the world in 1843,\nwas disappointed when it did not take place, and wound up as\na church.\n\nBill\n", "\nYou mean something like Uuencode? It isn't super crypto, but it is encrypted.\n\nScott\n\n", "Living things maintain small electric fields to (1) enhance certain\nchemical reactions, (2) promote communication of states with in a cell,\n(3) communicate between cells (of which the nervous system is a specialized\nexample), and perhaps other uses. These electric fields change with location\nand time in a large organism. Special photographic techniques such as applying\nexternal fields in Kirillian photography interact with these fields or the resistances\ncaused by these fields to make interesting pictures. Perhaps such pictures will\nbe diagonistic of disease problems in organisms when better understood. Perhaps not.\n\nStudying the overall electric activity of biological systems is several hundred\nyears old, but not a popular activity. Perhaps, except in the case of a few\ntissues like nerves and the electric senses of fishes, it is hard to reduce the\ninvestigation into small pieces that can be clearly analyzed. There are some\nhints that manipulating electric fields is a useful therapy such as speeding\nthe healing of broken bones, but not understood why.", "\n\n\nI hate to pour cold water on this, but currently seawater extracted\nuranium, even using the new, improved fiber absorbers from Japan, is\nabout 20 times more expensive than uranium on the spot market.\nUranium is *very* cheap right now, around $10/lb. Right now, there\nare mines closing because they can't compete with places like Cigar\nLake in Canada (where the ore is so rich they present safety hazards\nto the mines, who work in shielded vehicles). Plenty of other sources\n(for example, uranium from phosphate processing) would come on line before\nuranium reached $200/lb.\n\n\"Demand and supply balance will collapse\" is nonsense. Supply and\ndemand always balance; what changes is the price. Is uranium going\nto increase in price by a factor of 20 by the end of the century?\nNot bloody likely. New nuclear reactors are not being built\nat a sufficient rate.\n\nUranium from seawater is interesting, but it's a long term project, or\na project that the Japanese might justify on grounds of\nself-sufficiency.", "Could someone please help me. I am trying to find the \naddress to the TDRS receiving station at White Sands\nMissile Range. I am interested in possible employment\nand would like to write for information.", "\nHow can you be sure the two visitors were really government agents?\n:-)\n\n--John", "\nIt isn't. It's usually treated as being about as reliable as\nany other single, uncorroborated source of information about\na person for whom there is no other evidence.\n\n\nWhat do you mean when you say it contains mirables. I just\nopened mine and not a damned thing happened. Is there some\nspecial way to do this?", "\n One of the commentators on one of the Big Three news programs \ndescribed the VAT (which ain't a sales tax) as a tax \"government's love.\"\nI was even surprised he got the reason right: it effectively hides the\nmajority of the tax the consumer has to pay *from* the consumer. It's\nkind of like they do with cars. You pay far more for automobile taxes than\nmost people realize because it's contained in two dozen different taxes,\neverything from your license to your tires to your gasoline.\n", "\n(sic) Oh, you're really bright. As if nobody would have understood it was a\ntypo.\n\nSeveral parents with children who either had at one time or currently were\ninside the compound made the aforementioned charges. One parent actually\nspoke about said charges (in reference to his 13-year old daughter) WITH\nKoresh on the phone.\n\nYou missed my point entirely.\n\n\nSince you're unable to formulate a cogent response, you make a lame joke.\n\n\nAnti-social. Normally meaning a response against societal norms. Stealing\nis sociopathic behavior. It's not an oxymoron to have a GROUP of\nSOCIOPATHS. I guess you're NOT a psychologist. Oh well...\n\n\nMaybe YOU should get an education, my man.\n\n\nWhy won't some assholes use a sig so I can send them mail instead of\nwasting bandwidth?\n", "\nThat's fascinating. I take it that you're expressing skepticism\nat the idea that those ignorant savages could have influenced\nthe Constitution of the people who stole their continent. You\ncould be right, but it sounds plausible to me. Is there any\nreason that you dismiss it out-of-hand? Here's some more:\n\n Recent scholarship has shown that in the mid-1700s Indians were not\n only invited to participate in the deliberations of our \"founding\n fathers,\" but that the Great Binding Law of the Iroquois Confederacy\n arguably became the single most important model for the 1754 Albany\n Plan of Union, and later the Articles of Confederation and the\n Constitution. That this would be absent from our school texts,\n and from history, and from media is not surprising given the devotion\n Americans feel to our founding myth: Great men gathered to express\n a new vision that has withstood the test of time. If it were\n revealed that Indians had a role in it, imagine the blow to the\n American psyche.\n ...\n By 1754, when most of these men and others gathered to creat the\n Albany Plan of Union, the first try at confederation, they invited\n forty-two members of the Iroquois Grand Council to serve as advisors\n on confederate structures. Benjamin Franklin freely acknowledged\n his interest in the Iroquois achievement in a famous speech at\n Albany Congress: \"It would be a strange thing...if six nations\n of ignorant savages[sic] should be capable of forming such a union\n and be able to execute it in such a manner that it has subsisted\n for ages and appears indissoluble, and yet that a like union should\n be impractical for ten or a dozen English colonies.\"\n According to Grinde, Franklin convened meetings of Iroquois chiefs\n and congressional delegates in order to \"hammer out a plan that he\n acknowedged to be similar to the Iroquois Confederacy.\"\n\nGrinde is Professor Donald Grinde,Jr., of the University of California\nat Riverside whose book _The Iroquois and the Founding Fathers of the\nAmerican Nation_ addresses this issue.", "The following is available in some FTP archive somewhere, I insert\nmy comments liberally throughout this demonic memo of Big Brotherdom:\n\n\n Look! This is clearly the first step toward outlawing our\n own screw thread specifications. If this madness isn't fought,\n tooth and nail, every step of the way, it'll be a crime to use\n screw threads other than those our Fearless Leaders so *graciously*\n define for us.\n\n\n Rubbish, I say! ANSI standard screw threads will have subtle weaknesses,\n allowing their agents to disassemble our automobiles more easily,\n causing our mufflers to fall off at inoppurtune moments.\n\n\n\tHah! \"trust us\"\n\n\n\tSee??! See? This is the first step.\n\n\tIt is clear we must band together, write your congressman!\nUse Pretty Good Screw Threads, not this devil-inspired ANSI trash.\nProtect your constitutional right to use whatever screw thread you\ndesire. Guerilla Screw Thread Activism must become the order of the\nday. Boycott GM, and build your own car, using screws from STZ\nScrew Thread Associates.\n\n\tScrew you, Bill Clinton! You and your totalitarianist thugs!\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\namolitor@nmsu.edu | finger for PGST personal screw thread pitch, or\nScrew Threads | see the screw thread servers.\nmust be freed! |", "\nMake that worldwide coverage. I know numerous people who were planning\nholidays to the Florida, and have now chosen another (non-US)\ndestination. You expect this sort of thing, perhaps, in third world\ncountries - but not the US!", "\nI think this is a little extreme, i am concerned about a couple of things\ni've seen lately. It seems to me that the government is *beginning* to \nenforce political correctness. the first King verdict was polically incorrect\nso the hell with constutitional protection from double jeopardy, try the cops\nagain. the BD's are far as i can tell didn't do anything wrong. nothing that\nwould justify the horrable end they were subjected too. they were simply\npolically incorrect in the extream. i can't help but wonder \"who's next\"", ":\nOh, yeah? Well---*I* know of ....\n\nAnyways, cannibalism is much more commmon than those who feel that it is wrong\n(and then point out that the fact that western civilisation doesn't do it is\nPROOF positive that we are more advanced) would have us believe. Cannibalism\nis often used in funeral ceremonies as a way of keeping the deceased loved one\nalive. Many other cultures (including many American Indian cultures) eat/ate\nthe flesh of slain enemies, often as a way of showing respect for the valor of\nthe departed. Hearts are often favored for this, as it contains the spirit.\n\nHave you ever read or seen \"Alive\", which is the story of the Argentinian boys\nsoccer team that crashed in the Andes and then ate the bodies of those who died\nin order to survive? Finger lickin good. How about the Twighlight Zone\nepisode \"To Serve Man\"?\n\nIf you want more info on this, a good place to start is on sci.anthropology\n\nNow send me $20 and eat my flesh,", "\nWhy don't you activist guys cut misc.invest out of this thread?\nThey didn't offer any shares for sale yet...", "Just how much power does the House of Lords have now? \n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\"Who said anything about panicking?\" snapped Authur. Garrett Johnson\n\"This is still just culture shock. You wait till I've Garrett@Ingres.com\nsettled into the situation and found my bearings.\nTHEN I'll start panicking!\" - Douglas Adams ", "I wrote :\n Nice strawman indeed. The discussion is not about whether there were\ntanks\n used in sixties riots; instead, it is about whether those tanks fired\ntheir\n main guns in one of those riots. You claim they did. That claim is\n ludicrous.\n\nAwesley replied:\n I repeated what I had been told, under what context I had heard it,\n supporting the claim that tanks were indeed used in Detroit in 67.\n\nThe issue has never been whether tanks were used in Detroit in 1967. It\nhas been whether they fired their main guns. You did not merely claim that\ntanks were used--you claimed that they fired their main guns to suppress\nsniper fire and that they were \"quite\" effective at this. You continue to\nback away from this claim and defend something else that nobody is\ndisputing.\n\nAwesley went on:\n I\n spent a few minutes in a library today -- found their computer was\n down and they don't have a card catalog. Anyway, it took about 10\n minutes to find this in _Nightmare in Detroit, A Rebellion and It's\n Victims_ by Sauter and Hines, on page 133, telling of the death of\n Tonia Blanding, age 4.\n \n \"When the tank was fired upon by snipers it turned in the direction\n the shots came from. [...] the fifty-caliber machine gun mounted on the\n tank belched fire into the buildings. After a short round into the front\n of the buildings, the tank guns spit again, tearing apart huge holes out\n of the side of the apartment.\"\n \n Well, it's not the main gun. \n\n\"Well, it's not the main gun.\" Gee, that's only the entire point. Are you\nnow going to admit that you were wrong?\n\n will I see any pictures of tanks firing their main\n guns? Will I see pictures of buildings damaged by the shells? Will I\nread\n the reports of the tank fire? I'll bet you dollar to doughnuts I won't. \n It will take more than second-hand accounts from a few old National Guard\n sergeants shooting the shit to convince me that tanks shelled American\n cities in the Sixties.\n\nAwesley replied:\n Well, if you bothered to read them, it wouldn't take long at all to\n find reports of tank * fire * -- although not necessarily of the main\n guns.\n\nI will never read of tanks firing their main guns in Detroit in the '67\nriots. There is simply no way that such an event could have taken place\nwithout it being common knowledge even 26 years later. The American\nmilitary firing shells from tanks in American cities on blacks would have\nbeen *big* news.\n\nAwesley goes on:\n You can also read of the troops using grenade launchers.\n\nTo fire fragmentary grenades? I doubt that as well. To fire concussion\ngrenades? Perhaps. To fire tear gas? Certainly. But you would be\nperfectly willing to let us believe they fired frags, wouldn't you, since\nit makes your other claim seem more plausible.\n\nAnd on:\n I don't\n expect to convince you; you'll have to open your mind and eyes and\nactually\n do a little research to be convinced one way or the other. Let me know\n what you find.\n\nI already know what you found: nothing. If I claimed that the Marines used\nF-4s to launch rockets at buildings in Trenton, New Jersey would you\nbelieve me? Would you suspend judgment until you had a chance to research\nit? Or would your bullshit filters kick in?\n\nIf tanks had fired their main guns in Detroit, people would have been\nscreaming about it for the past two and half decades. I would know about\nit. Unless you also claim that the National Guard managed to cover it up. \nIf your mind is open enough to believe that, well, good for you. I prefer\nto live in reality. And here in reality, I find it hard to believe that\nthose tanks even had any shells, much less fired them.", "Heres a nice story to help explain the virtues of purity, innocence\nand modesty, and their importance.\n\n\n\n The Most Beautiful Virtues\n\n This story is an excerpt taken from The Basket of Flowers by\n Johann Christoph von Schmid\n\n\n In a certain little market town, over a hundred years ago,\tthere\n lived an upright\tand intelligent man named Jacob Rede. He was\n married to a most virtuous young woman and they lived happily in\n a humble home which was in the midst of a large, beautiful val-\n ley. After living many, happy years together, Jacob's wife\tdied,\n leaving him alone with only one friend...his daughter Mary. Even\n as a child Mary was uncommonly pretty; but as she grew in years,\n her piety, her innocence, her modesty and her unfeigned kindne ss\n towards all she came in contact with, gave to her beauty a rare\n and peculiar charm. Her face was lighted up with a look of such\n indescribable goodness, that it seemed almost as though one\n looked upon an angel.\n\n Mary's greatest delight was the beautiful garden and her favour-\n ite flowers were the violet, the lily and the rose. Jacob loved\n to point to them as emblems of the virtues most becoming to her\n gender. When\tshe once, early in March brought the first violet to\n\n Let the modest violet, my dear Mary, be to you an image of humil-\n ity and of the benevolence that does good in secret. It clothes\n itself in the tender colours of modesty; it prefers to bloom in\n retired grots; it fills the air with its fragrance while remain-\n ing hidden beneath the leaves. May you also, my dear Mary, be\n like the retiring violet, avoiding vain display, not seeking to\n attract the public\teye, but preferring ever to do good in\n quietude and peace.\n\n One morning when the roses and lilies were in full bloom and the\n garden appeared in its richest array, Jacob said to his daughter,\n as he pointed out a beautiful lily, which\twas beaming in the\n morning sun:\n\n Let the lily my dear child, be to you the emblem\n of purity. Look how beautiful, how pure and fair it is! The whi-\n test linen is as nothing compared with the purity of its petals:\n they are like the snow. Happy the maiden whose heart is as pure\n and as free from stain. But the purest of all colours is also the\n hardest\n\n\t\t\t\t -5-\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n to preserve pure. Easily is the petal of the lily soiled;\ttouch\n it\tbut carelessly or roughly and a stain is left behind. In the\n same way, a word or a thought may stain the purity of innocence!\n\n Let the rose my dear Mary, be to you an emblem of modesty. More\n beautiful than the colour of the rose is the blush that rises to\n the cheek of a modest girl. It is a sign that she is still pure\n of\theart and innocent in thought. Happy is the maiden whom the\n suggestion of a thought that is indelicate, will cause to blush,\n as\tshe is thus put on her guard against the approach of danger.\n The cheeks which readily blush will remain for a long time with\n their roseate hue, while those which fail to blush at the least\n indelicacy of thought will soon become pale and\twan, and go\n before their time to the grave.\"\n\n\n\n\n Among the many fruit trees that adorned the garden there was one\n that was prized above all the others. It was an apple tree, not\n much larger than a rose bush, and stood by itself in the middle\n of\tthe garden. Mary's father had planted it the day that she was\n born and every year it bore a number of beautiful apples. Once it\n blossomed earlier\tthan usual and with unusual luxuriance. The\n tree was one mass of blossom. Mary was so delighted with it that\n she went every morning as soon as she was dressed to look at\n it. Once, when it was in full bloom, she called to her father\n\n Look father, how beautiful! Was there ever such a lovely mingling\n of\tred and white? The whole tree looks like one huge bunch of\n flowers!\n\n The next morning she hastened into the garden to feast her eyes\n once more\tupon the tree. But what was her grief to see that the\n frost had nipped it and destroyed all its flowers. They were all\n become brown and\tyellow\tand when the\tsun came forth in its\n strength they withered and fell to the ground. Mary wept bitter\n tears at the sight. Then said the father:\n\n Thus, does sinful pleasure destroy the bloom of youth. Oh my\n child, never cease to remember how dreadful it is to be seduced\n from the path of right! Behold in the example of the apple tree\n an\timage of what would happen if you were to wander from the way\n - if the hopes your conduct hitherto has\traised\tin my\theart\n should vanish, not merely for a day or year, but for life. Ah,\n then how much more bitter would be the tears which I would shed\n over your lapse from virtue than those which now course down your\n cheeks! Life would have no joys for me: with tears in my eyes I\n should\n\n\t\t\t\t -6-\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n go down sorrowfully to my grave.\n\n As he spoke, the tears stood in his eyes; Mary was deeply moved,\n and the words he uttered made so profound an impression upon her\n mind that she never forgot them.\n\n Under the eyes of a father so loving and\twise, and amid the\n flowers of her garden, Mary grew daily in stature and intelli-\n gence - blooming as a rose, pure as a lily and retiring\tas a\n violet, and as full of promise as a tree laden with blossom.\n\n Happy was the old man at all times to behold how plenteously the\n fruits of\this garden rewarded his diligent toil; but with how\n much more happiness and content did he mark the gracious effect\n produced upon the heart and mind of his beloved daughter by his\n pious teaching and example.\n\n Jacob plucked several roses and lilies, tied them together\tin a\n bunch and gave them to Mary with the words:\n\n The lily and the rose, sister flowers as they are, belong the one\n to\tthe other; both incomparable in their beauty, they are ren-\n dered still more lovely by being together. In the\tsame way my\n dear child are innocence and modesty twin sisters of virtue and\n cannot be separated\n\n\n\n\n The greatest and most powerful guardian of purity is the thought\n of the presence of God\n", "\nWell, it seems we don't learn the lessons of history do we?\n\nI was hoping that Kent State taught us a lesson.\n\nApparently not.\n\nApparently the government will murder anyone they choose to still.\n\n---\nRawlin Blake blake@nevada.edu", null ], "marker": { "color": "#CFD8DC", "opacity": 0.5, "size": 5 }, "mode": "markers+text", "name": "other", "showlegend": false, "type": "scattergl", "x": { "bdata": 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", 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", "dtype": "f4" } }, { "hoverinfo": "text", "hovertext": [ "There has been a long running discussion over changing the Startup\nlogo for Windows for a few weeks here. While all the COPY methods are\ngreat & haven't seen any mention of a program that will do it for\nyou..... \n\nWell... I found one on CICA called winlogo (Can't remember where\nunfortuantely), and it seems to work real well... even comes with a\ncouple example .RLE files. \n\nWhat I'd really like though is a way to create .RLE files myself,\nspecifically the RLE4 format mentioned in the winlogo readme file. Can\nanyone point me in the direction of such a beast with a REAL directory\npath ?? All the ones I've seen mentioned didn't pan out.....", "I want to be able to take a bunch of home-made songs (from DAT or other \nsuitable master) and output them to a short run (10-20 off) of standard \nmusic CDs. Would one of the CD recorders designed for writeable CD ROMs work \nfor this purpose? Alternatively, is there a service that does this sort of \nthing for a fee? \n\nI'm after as much information as possible on the alternatives (cost, lead \ntime, equipment required, procedure to follow, etc.) Email replies would be \nappreciated.", "\n\nHi. Can anyone please give me some ftp sites to get IPAS processes for\n3D Studio 2.0?\nThanks.\n+Warren =8^)\n", "From article <1pf5qe$b3b@seven-up.East.Sun.COM>, by jorge@erex.East.Sun.COM (Jorge Lach - Sun BOS Hardware):\n", "Here is a list of (mostly) European 5\" CD singles I have for sale. All are\nbrand new and some are still shrink-wrapped. Please e-mail if interested...", "Given that all the source code contains explicit permission to use or\nmodify the code without fee in addition to the shareware notice, I would\nsay that the shareware notice is unenforceable. All you need to do is\nmake minor changes to create a derivative work which is explicitly allowed\nunder the first part of the copyright notice. Of course, this would be\ncircumventing the author's wishes on the subject, but I'd say if you're\nnot going to pay him no matter what, you'd be on relatively safe ground\nwith that approach... In fact, given the internal contradictions of the\ncopyright notices, I'd guess none of it could ever be enforced, but not being\na lawyer, I can't be positive.\n\nRegardless, the fees he's asking are not excessive, and I would encourage\nanyone who wants to use the program to pay them if at all possible. Even\nthough it is unlikely that you have actual legal obligations to pay the\nauthor, it would be reasonable to do so, to support his efforts if nothing\nelse.\n\n- Brad\n", "MAG Innovision MX15F\nFantastic 15\" multiscan monitor that can display up to\n1280x1024 noninterlaced (!) with .26 mm dot pitch.\nIf you are looking for a large crystal clear super vga\nmonitor then this is for you.\n$430 call Scott at (503) 757-3483 or\nemail scotts@math.orst.edu\n", "I have a stereo compressor-limiter by \nAudio Logic (Model MT-66). The gates work,\nbut the compressor seems to be gone on one\nchannel, and very weak on the other. \n\nI'll probably need an ocsilloscope to trace it\ndown (no pun intended), but if any one with\nexperience with this type of equipment could\npoint me in a certain direction as to where the \ncircuit is most likely to fail, I'd sure appreciate it.\n\n\n-- \nRobert C. Stephens\t\trob@dexter.psych.umn.edu\t\t", "I recently corrected the resolution on my Sparcstation by changing\n/usr/lib/X11/xdm/Xservers from:\n:0 local /usr/bin/X11/X :0 -ar1 500 -dpi 100\nto:\n:0 local /usr/bin/X11/X :0 -ar1 500 -dpi 85\n\nI determined that my 19\" 1152x900 monitor was 85 dpi by measuring the\nactive screen area and dividing by resolution.\n\nHowever, this has caused my application fonts to behave strangely.\nAfter some research, I believe this is caused by my applications\nrequesting fonts by Family, Weight, Slant, and Pointsize. I believe\nthat X is grabbing the first font on the path with these characteristics\nand displaying it. Since I have only 75dpi and 100dpi fonts on my\npath, the results are inaccurate. I do have some Speedo fonts, but\nnot for the family I am using (Helvetica).\n\nI think this is incorrect. The fonts should always be provided in the\nresolution of the display. This never seems to happen unless you\nexplicitly request fonts by xres and yres! This is true of both the\nscaleable and bitmapped fonts! For instance, the command\n\nxfd -fn '-bitstream-charter-*-*-*-*-*-240-*-*-*-*-*-*'\n\nWill invoke a 75dpi font (despite the fact that this is a Speedo font).\n\nThe command \n\nxfd -fn '-adobe-courier-*-*-*-*-*-240-*-*-*-*-*-*'\n\nWill invoke a 75dpi font or a 100dpi font (depending on my font path).\nDespite the fact that X knows my display is 85 dpi, and that it can\ngenerate an 85dpi font for me! Unless I my applications specifies a\nresolution, X appears to pick a stupid default.\n\nIs this a bug? Is it a feature? If so, why? Is there anything I can\ndo to get around this problem? People have suggested that I lie about\nmy resolution, and specify a single font path (75 or 100, not both).\nThis would at least make my app consistent, but I like being able to\nlook at rulers that appear in my paint application and say: \"Yup, thats\nan inch\". Anyone have a set of 85dpi bitmapped fonts I can use?\n\nSystem info:\nSun Sparc 10/41 w/32 MB, SunOS 4.1.3.\n\nxdpyinfo:\nversion number: 11.0\nvendor string: MIT X Consortium\nvendor release number: 5000\nscreen #0:\n dimensions: 1152x900 pixels (348x272 millimeters)\n resolution: 85x85 dots per inch\n\nxset q font path:\n /usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc/,/usr/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo/,/usr/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/,/usr/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/\n", "I have an old Apple RGB Monitor for a IIGS which\nlooks a whole lot like the 12\" Monitor. I have the\nsneaking suspicion that if I had the right cable I\ncould use it on my Mac.\n\nDoes anyone know if my suspicions are correct or\nam I just full of it.", ": Please reply to the seller below.\n: \n: 210M Formatted SCSI Hard Disk 3.5\"\n: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-\n: Rodime 3259TS (3 available)\n\nWARNING\nI have had bad experience with this model and I know several others\nwho also have run into difficulties. The drives will work just a limited\nperiod of time and after that the disk will report medium error.\nDont ask me for details, my disk is just stone dead.\n\nDavid", "\nOne of the rules for a permanent swap file is that it must be contiguous\n(non-fragmented) space. I suspect that is more responsible for the\ndifference than the amount of free disk, in your case.\n\n\nIt depends on what you are running. We had to increase our swap\nfile (I think it is now 20MB) when some applications couldn't\nrun without *everything* else closed.\n", "Hi out there!\n\nI'm looking for (mechanic-construction)CAD-software either PD-sources\nor Sun 3-binaries (respective the licence.. :-).\nWho knows _ANY_ package (and a source/site to get it..) ?\n\nThx, Fabian\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\tYeesh, you WILL be nailing those IRLEDs. May I suggest getting your\nmitts on the Siemens SFH484-2 IRLED? This unit is designed to take some big\ncurrent pulses if you can get your duty cycle down a bit. It will output\nnearly a watt (975 mW) with REAL short duty cycle times.\n\n(nice thing about the SFH484-2 is that it is CHEAP. I got mine for about\n50 cents a piece, even though I had to buy 100 of them....)\n\n\tBTW, I have seen IRLEDs with outputs up to 6 watts...honest,\n6 WATTS. I don't have the book here at work so I can't recall the company\nname. The 6 watter ain't cheap, around $108 but if you want some power,\nmamamia, that's pretty hot. They also have a 4 watt, a 2 watt and a\n1 watt device in their line, and will sell small quan. to individuals.\nIf you are interested, I can find the book at home and get the\npertinent info.\n\n\tNow, as for the position detector, you might try ELTEC in Florida.\nPhone number listed in the 92/93 ETID is 904-253-5328. They seem like \nnice people. Their specialty is passive infrared detection devices,\nso they might be able to help you out.\n\n\tI'm curious about your applications if you don't mind saying.\nThe device sounds like it could be useful in a lasertag game, although you'd\nneed to up your carrier signal concept to 58.8 KHz......", "I have an old tandon type modem (that's all the info I have apart from \nthe fact that it is black!). Does anyone have any info about this modem\nor upgrading it ??? Reply by e-mail please to cdw@dcs.ed.ac.uk.\n\n===============================================================================\n= Chris - E-mail: cdw@dcs.ed.ac.uk or C.Walton@ed or p92019@cplab.ph.ed.ac.uk =\n= Tel.: 031-667-9764 or 0334-74244 (at weekends) =\n= Write: 4/2 Romero Place, Edinburgh, EH16 5BJ. =\n===============================================================================\nFinagle's Fourth Law:\n Once a job is fouled up, anything done to improve it only makes it worse.\n===============================================================================\n\n", "Hello out there!\n\nMy Mac IIsi runs a Radius Pivot LE monitor, with the PDS card.\n\nAs I wanted to try to switch to 32 bit adressing, i couldn't startup my Mac\nanymore.\n\n1.\tWhat is the trick to zap the PRAM (so I won't have to take out the\nbattery next time)\n\n2.\tIs there any trick that could allow me to switch to 32bit?\n\n3.\tWhat does 32bit adressing bring to me as an user? faster work?\n\n4.\tAny chance to have more than 8Mb of adressable memory with 24bit\nadressing?\n\nThank you a lot for your answers (via mail or reply)", "T8900DIP.TXT - Jeffrey E. Hundstad (j3gum@vax1.mankato.msus.edu)\n\n Switch Settings on the Trident 8900C\n\n----------------------------------\\ /-----------------|\n |-----------| |-------------------| |-----------\n VGA Graphics Adapter Layout #1 (8-DRAM)\n\n----------------------------------\\ /-----------------|\n |-----------| |-------------------| |-----------\n VGA Graphics Adapter Layout #2 (2/4/8 - DRAM)\n\n----------------------------------\\ /-----------------|\n |-----------| |-------------------| |-----------\n VGA GRaphics Adapter Layout #3 (2/4/8 - DRAM)\n\n1. Dip Switches\n2. DB-15 connector: For analog monitors.\n3. DB-9 connector: for TTL monitors. (* NOTE #1)\n4. Jumers J1, J2, J3, J4 (J3 for layouts #2 and #3, J4 for layout #3)\n5. Video BIOS: Basic Input/Ouput System.\n6. TVGA 8900 Chip: VGA GRaphics chip.\n7. Edge connector: For IBM PC/XT, PC/AT and compatible systems.\n8. Video DRAM: up to 1MB\n9. Feature connector: For special applications.\n10. Video DAC\n11. Jumper Blocks JP1 and JP2 (2/4/8 board only)\n* NOTE #1 - Hardware option. Feature not present for all board versions.\n\nSwitch settings for the 6 switch dip box (#1 from figures).\n\nSwitch 3: Scan Rate\n On - Less than 48KHz (default)\n Off - 38-49Khz\n\nSwitch 5: Fast and Slow Address Decode\n Off - Fast address decode (default)\n On - Slow address decode\n\nSwitch 6: 8/16 bit Data Path\n Off - 16-bit data path (default)\n On - 8-bit data path\n\n\nJumper settings\n\nJ1: Settings for IRQ9\n 1 2 3 1 2 3\n xxx xxx\n Off (def) On\n\nJ2: Settings for Bus Size Detections\n1 1 x\n2 x 2 x\n3 x 3\nAutodetect Standard Interface\n(def)\n\nJ3: Settings for DRAM Configuration\n 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3\n ---- | | ----\n ---- | | ----\n 4 5 6 4 5 6 4 5 6\n\n Two DRAM Four DRAM Eight DRAM\n\nJ4: DRAM Clock Select\n 1 2 3 1 2 3\n xxx xxx\n 40 MHz 48 MHz\nTwo DRAM 4/8 DRAM\n\n\nSW1 & SW2", "It is 5 years old. Model CCD-V5. 6x zoom. Everything works perfectly.\nUses 8 mm tapes (not Hi-8, that was not around 5 years ago!).\n$350 plus shipping or best offer.\n", "Hey All,\n\nDoes anyone know if I can ftp to get the newest version of Radiusware\nand soft pivot from Radius? I bought a pivot monitor, but it has an\nold version of this software and won't work on my C650, and Radius said\nit would be 4-5 weeks until delivery.\n\nThanks!", "\n\n\tI thought NEC and Toshiba CD-ROM mechanism have an average \naccess time of less than 200 ms. While the SONY-APPLE CD-ROM \ndrive has an access time of 300 ms for the doublespin models.", "I'm looking for a used/inexpensive audio mixer. I need at least \n4 channels of stereo input and 1 channel of stereo output, but I would\nprefer 8 or more input channels. Each channel needs to have at least a \nvolume control. I'll consider buying broken equipment. The mixer needs \nto be fairly small (I haven't got a lot of space for it). ", "\nI believe you are right. Both SCSI and SCSI-2 support 8 devices on the bus\n(normally that would be the host controller and 7 targets) each of which\nmay have up to 8 logical units (LUNs).", "\n\n : The key issue that I bought my BJ-200 on was ink drying speed. You really \n : have to try awful hard to get the BJ-200 ink to smear. The HP DeskJets need \n : 10-15 seconds to completely dry. In both cases, however, do not get your \n : pages wet. Unlike laser printers, the material on your pages is INK, not \n : toner. But that should go without saying.\n\n I think the ink now used in the DeskJet family is water-fast. \n\nI've had pictures ruined by a few drops of rain. These were colour pictures\nfrom a DeskJet 500C. Mind you, it could have been acid rain:-)\n\nI use a BJ10ex. Ink dries fast, but it really doesn't like getting wet.\n", "Hi All COMPAQ owners\n\nA friend of mine has COMPAQ (PORTABLE III), and he has lost all the manuals and\ndiskettes.\n\nPlease HELP him getting the machine's equipment definition (CMOS) memory\nconfiguration right. The machine says that some bytes of it are still \nincorrectly set up. It seems, that COMPAQ has some bytes defined not like\nthe 100% IBM compatible machines. If You have a COMPAQ, it\ncertainly has DIAGNOSTICs diskette with it. And this is needed. I can't\nreach quickly any COMPAQ dealers here.\n\nIf it is possible PLEASE email documentation, or some of its configuration\nsoftware.", "\nMay I humbly suggest DESQview/X? (Of course, I'm biased...)\n\nDESQview/X is a multitasker for DOS computers, that uses a standard\nX11R4 server as it's display mechanism. DOS applications and Microsoft\nWindows standard mode are converted on-the-fly to X-protocol, allowing\nyou to display them, or any R4 compatable X-program from any machine\non the net to display to the PC's local display (or to any other display\non the net).\n\nFree tools are available for devloping X-applications for the DVX platform;\nmany X-programs have been ported between DVX and UNIX with little or\nno modifications. (Often, you only need to create a new makefile!)\n\nIf you're interested in more details, you can check out the usenet group\ncomp.os.msdos.desqview, or just email me directly at support@qdeck.com,\nand I'd be happy to fill you in.", "Jan> Nntp-Posting-Host: 134.244.49.156\n\nJan> On a related note, how can I use xv to display colored GIFs on my\nJan> root display with HP Vue?\n\nJan> All I can do with Vue is display xbm's through their\nJan> Backdrop Style Manager.\n\nJan> xv does not seem to be able to override whatever Vue\nJan> puts there.\n\nI suspect this is because VUE creates a window (probably OverrideRedirect)\nthat is the size of (or larger than) the Root Window. Because the window\nmanager does not know about this, you cannot move, resize etc. it. xv in the\nmean time is busy changing your root window to whatever you have requested\nbut you never get to see it because VUE's window is overlaid on top of the root\nwindow. \n\nContact HP support and see whether VUE can support coloured bitmap format\nsuch as xpm, if they cant then they probably create all their coloured\nbackdrops inside the code.", "\n\nWe here at IBM have the same problem with our workstations. I was also\nshocked when I first realized that you have to offset lines from fills by\nabout 16 bits (assuming 24 bit z buffer). This seems huge, but is only\n1/256 of the dynamic range. In those terms it doesn't seem so bad. What\nis happening is that the interpolation in z is not totally linear, due\nmainly to roundoff, I believe. So the polygon is not planar in z, but is\nmore like a Ruffles potato chip. Ditto with lines. When you start/end at\ndifferent x/y values, the \"ridges\" are out of phase, resulting in the\nstitch effect. You have the same problem if you try to draw 1 polygon\nright on top of another, but with different vertices. You will likely see\na smeared effect where they overlap.\n Example:\n Try Polygon 1: (100,100,100) (100,200,100) (200,200,100) (200,100,100)\n Polygon 2: (125,125,100) (125,175,100) (175,175,100) (175,125,100)\n\nYour implementation is correct. In fact, we do a similar trick when\nrendering primitives that have lines and polygons - such as NURBS surfaces\nwith isoparametric lines. Without the trick, the lines appear stitched, as\nyou say. When the application draws lines/polygons independently, the\nsystem does not have the smarts to automatically do the z shifting, so the\napplication must do it. This is what you have discovered and are doing.\nBravo!\n\n(Note to IBM'ers: The information given here has been previously disclosed\nthrough proper channels so I'm not giving away any new unpublished info.)\n", ": Could someone direct me to information on SCSI performance for each Mac?\n: (Max throughput, etc.)\n\nMax thruput on a Centris or Quadra is about 3.3 MB/sec.\nMax thruput on IIci or IIfx or equivalent is about 1.4 MB/Sec\nMax thruput on slower machines is slower.", "Is there a ftp.cica.indiana.edu mirror anyware that isn't so !@#$@# busy?\n\nThanks\n\nPhil Trodwell ", "\n\tThe best one I've seen is CEO, by Sloop Software. They have a\n\tsharware version, but the retail version is only $40-50. It's\n\tincredibly complete, subfolders to any level, choose any icon,\n\thot keys, drop down menus, button bars, etc. Haven't found\n\tanything it doesn't do. Try mailing 72540.144@compuserve.com\n\tfor details.\n\n\tTom", "Hi,\n\nI recently got a tower-case for my Gateway 486/33 file server, mostly because\nwe needed the extra drive bays and better power supply. This case has LED's\nfor the processor speed, i.e. 33. Is there a place to plug this in on the\nmotherboard? If not, is there anyway to hack something to make it work?\n\nTIA!\n\n-Eric", "#\n# Does anyone know if the following is possible, and if so how do I go about\n# doing it.\n# \n# I want to be able to display remote X11 applications on a VAXstation 2000 off\n# of an Internet node. Here is where the problem comes up, the VAXstation isn't\n# connected directly to the Internet but is connected via Decnet to a node that\n# does have a connection to the Internet. Does anyone know if it is possible to\n# get the display to use TCPIP from the remote Internet node down to my local\n# Internet node and then send it via Decnet down to the VAXstation 2000?\n#\n\nFor the machine that is connected to the InterNet, what is it running? If it\nis running VMS, then if you obtain MultiNet for it, MultiNet comes with a\nTCP/IP to DECnet gateway for X11.\n\nPatrick L. Mahan\n\n--- TGV Window Washer ------------------------------- Mahan@TGV.COM ---------", ": \n: Has anyone found a fix for the following problem?\n: \n: Client Software:\tSunOs 4.1.1, X11R5\n: Server Hardware:\tSun IPC\n: Server Software:\tSunOs 4.1.1, Open Windows 3.0 (w/ patch 100444-37)\n: \n: A Motif 1.2.2 application will periodically hang when run against the\n: OpenWindows 3.0 server (xnews). The pulldown is displayed but then no\n: button actions have any effect. Sometimes pressing will\n: unstick the application but not usually. It looks like the pulldown is\n: grabbing the focus and never letting go. Other windows on the display\n: continue to get updated so the server isn't hanging. If I log in from\n: another terminal and kill the Motif application then everything gets\n: back to normal. The same application when run against other X servers\n: (including MIT X11R5 Xsun, DecWindows, Tektronix X terminal) has no\n: problems. This is obviously a OpenWindows problem but I need a\n: work-around since most of our customers are OpenWindows users.\n\nI have seen the same problem using a SPARCStation 10, Solaris 2.1, OW 3.1.\nIn my case, it happens far more often than \"periodically\".", "\n\n???\nI've heard about that Italian guy distributing Motif binaries for 386BSD,\nbut I haven't heard of anybody doing the same thing for Linux. ... and\nI do follow the Linux news group pretty closely. So, have I missed something? I'd LOVE to get hold of Motif libs for Linux for $100!", "\nIt would be in a different location, so a directional antenna could\nprobably lock in on just the one monitor. Failing that, a phased array\ncould likely seperate the signals. Admittedly, this is expensive, but\nso is all the rest of this stuff anyway.\n\n--\nPerry Metzger\t\tpmetzger@shearson.com", "Ok people, I really need to sell this sampler to pay off bills, so\nI'm even going to include 3 sample cds worth at least 200 separately in\nthis deal.....\n\n\tIt's an Emax II with standard memory and 16 bit stereo sampling\n\tIt's rackmount and has at least 24 voice pol., It's got a brand new\n\tConnor (sp.?) 170 meg internal scsi drive (4 wk old, never used) \n\tit works perfect and runs perfect. In addition access to a friends\n\tsound library of over 1gig of sounds is available... All this for \n\tonly $1600.. The sample cd's are based on dance/house/techno stuff.\n\nEmail or call 213-341-4425\nthanks", "Hello,\n \n I'm investigating the purchase of an Object Oriented Application Framework. I have\ncome across a few that look good:\n\n Zapp 1.1 from Inmark\n Zinc 3.5 from Zinc software\n C++/Views from Liant\n Win++ from Blaise\n\nSome considerations I'm using:\n\n Being new to Windows programming (I'm from the UNIX/X world), the quality and\nintuitivness of the abstraction that these class libraries provide is very \nimportant. However, since I'm not adverse to learning the internals of Windows\nprogramming, the new programming methodology should be closely aligned with\nthe native one. I don't believe arbitrary levels of abstraction, just for the\nsake of changing the API, are valuable.\n\n Since we will be developing for the 32bit Windows NT system the\nmemory management issues and issues particular to the Windows 3.1 API are less\nimportant. \n\n We will probably buy another C++ class library (something like Tools.h++ or Booch\ncomponents from Rational) to handle data structures and other miscellaneous stuff\n (allocators etc...). So those features are not that important for this toolkit to have.\n\nThe two that I have narrowed it down to are ZApp and Zinc, they seem to be the two\ntoolkits that have received the most attention from the media. I was wondering if\nanyone had any first-hand experience with any of these toolkits (especially ZApp and Zinc).\n\nA couple of observations about these toolkits that seem particularly noteworthy are:\n\nZApp\n----\n Seems to have the most extensive coverage of Windows functionality and\n also includes some other miscellaneous useful classes.\n Has new fancy 3D-style controls available, and support for custom controls.\n Has a Windows NT version (Essential)\n Redirectable graphics display/output architecture (useful for printing)\n Sizer class for automatically managing control layout after resize.\n Seems to be the newcomer, this could be an advantage in designing a better system.\n \nZinc\n----\n Has a platform independent resource strategy. (Not too important for me right now)\n Comes with a interface builder tool\n Has a Windows NT version (Essential)\n Seems to have been around longer (more mature), but grew up out of a DOS version. \n Had a better demo :-)\n\nBoth have source code availability options\nBoth are lacking OLE support\nNeither seem to have any particular support for multimedia type stuff\n\n\nAny thoughts anyone has on this would be much appreciated,\n\nThanks,\n Brett Harper\n", "\n Try putting one of the IRQs for your COM ports onto IRQ2. The hardware will\nautomagically wrap IRQ2 to IRQ9 on AT class machines (eg, anything with high\nIRQs). This is what I'm doing on my set up right now. \n I've got COM2 on IRQ2 (really IRQ9 - address it this way in software), COM1\non IRQ3, SoundBlaster on IRQ5, LPT1 on IRQ7, and my ATI BusMouse port on one of\nthe interrupts in between. Works just great.\n If you need even more, there's a text file floating around somewhere that\ndetails how to hack up any serial card (and probably any others) to work on the\nhigher IRQs. It basically involves cutting the trace to the low IRQ and running a wire over the a high IRQ pin on the 16bit expansion bus.\n\n It will be best to put the modem's COM port onto IRQ2/9. This will be the \n\nfirst IRQ serviced by the system, giving the modem a better response -- \nespecially handy under multitaskers like OS/2 -- which I'm running with no\nproblems.\n\nJustin", "If I remember rightly, there is a pulsating set of tones piped thru the CATV\nsystems (somewheres near the FM broadcast band). And that the cable company\ntrucks listen for this as they roam around town. If you can hear it over\nthe air and not cable....\n", "Is anyone familiar with a virus that infects the WINHELP.EXE file?\n\nI have recently noticed some unusual system behavior and ran\nNorton AntiVirus for WINDOWS. It indicated a possible unknown\nvirus in the WINHELP.EXE file in both the MWINDOWS and WINOS2\ndirectories. Neither file changed since I installed my OS/2\nsystem in January as far as I know.\n\nAny information about this possible virus and suggestions on\nremedies would be greatly appreciated.\n", "\nI currently use an HP DeskJet with Grappler LS ver 1.0, \nand it works on System7. Course, I only use the SWA Dutch\nand SWA Swiss fonts that came with it, due to the 4x size\nrequirement to print to the HP. (ie: must have 40pnt definition\nto print a 10pnt font) When I upgraded, I talked to Orange\nMicro, and they state that ver 1.2 of Grappler LS definitely\nworks with System7. However, the upgrade was US$40, so I\npassed.\n\nHope this helps?\n\n\n\n-- ", "Hi! I recently got hold of an old/obsolete PC. First thing I am trying to do\nwith it, is making it work. Seems the switches in the back have been toggled\nsince last it was used, and I do not have the manual.\nCan anybody help me to identify this beast, and mail me the prober switch-settings?\nAll I know is that is is a Bondwell 38, made in 1986, most likely a 286,\ncan be toggled between 4.77 and 8 mHz, and looks like no changes have been made.\nAny information would be appreciated.\n\n-- \nTerje Johansen at Trondheim College of Engineering, Norway.", "I am looking for a 20/40 MHz scope, in good condition. Please email me or call me at (713)280-2788.\n\n", "1) Output offset: Obtain the service manual for the oscilloscope\nand adjust the internal output offset contorl. There is virtual\ncertainty that there is an internal ajustment for the offset\ncontrol's zero detent position.\n\n2) Verify that the function generator is properly loaded. Many\ngenerators expect you to supply a 50 ohm load. Go to a hamfest\nflea market and scrounge around for a pass-through 50 ohm\nterminator that has a male and female BNC (or whatever) connector\non it. The calibrator on my Tektronix scope is designed to put out\n.4v into a 1 meg load, but .1 volt into a 50 ohm load. You may\nalso find that loading the output of the function generator also\nreduces the harmonic distortion.\n\nBuild an attenuator. You don't have to use (and I wouldn't want to\nuse) the input impedance of the device under test as part of the\nvoltage divider to drop the input test voltage. Consider this:\n\n------10K--------+---------? ohm ----\n |\nGen 50 ohm D.U.T.\n(loaded) |\n-----------------+-------------------\n\nThink about the ratio of 50/10K and then think about the accuracy\nto which you can read voltages on your oscilloscope. You can\nvirtually discount the loading of the D.U.T. Also you have the\nmillivolt test generator you want.\n\nGood luck,\n\n", " [re a true 24 bit XV]\n\n\nDon't mind if I do.\nAs someone who would _love_ to see XV go to 24 bit, this\nwould be plenty for me.\n\n a) XV can Load a 24 bit image, and display it in all it's\n24 bit glory on 24 bit X displays.\n b) All other operations (Crop, Dither, Smooth, etc.) are not\nsupported on 24 bit images.\n\nhow hard would this be?\n\n", "Hello\n\tHELP!!! please\n\t\tI am a student of turbo c++ and graphics programming\n\tand I am having some problems finding algorithms and code\n\tto teach me how to do some stuff..\n\n\t1) Where is there a book or code that will teach me how\n\tto read and write pcx,dbf,and gif files?\n\n\t2) How do I access the extra ram on my paradise video board\n\tso I can do paging in the higher vga modes ie: 320x200x256\n\t800x600x256\n\t3) anybody got a line on a good book to help answer these question?\n\nThanks very much !\n\nsend reply's to : Palm@snycanva.bitnet", "\n\nI am resending this message because my news program may have goofed the first\ntime.\n\nTerry, I recently bought an LCIII and a Datadesk 101E. I don't\nremember trying to rebuild the desktop with it, however it did give me\na strange problem. When I held down shift during startup to disable\nall extensions, nothing happened. I tried it with another keyboard, using\nthe same adb connector cable- and it worked with the other keyboard.\nThe shift key on the Datadesk keyboard worked well otherwise. I checked\nthe dipswitches and they are fine. Try disabling your extensions and tell\nme if it works.\n \nI am annoyed with Datadesk. I sent them the keyboard in the mail for\ninspection/repair/replacement. The technician on the phone said they\nhave a 10-14 day turn around time- meaning you should receive the\ninspected/repaired keyboard in that time. Well, they have had the \nkeyboard for over 3 weeks and I still have gotten very little info\nfrom them about it. It's annoying because it cost me $12 to send them\nthe keyboard and their technical support line is not toll free. tell me\nif you have a similar experience with them.", "o Kenwood Audiophile Cassette Tape Deck\n Asking $199.00 obo + shipping, (original price I paid - $450.00),\n excellent condition, well maintained, rarely used.\n\n - Model KX-900\n - Kenwood Audiophile Series (Kenwood highend stereo component)\n - Programmable playback with Memory System (used to program the playback\n order if selection. Program is stored in RAM (Random Access Memory)\n System with digital display of the song # being played)\n - Counter Memory Index (when this mode is selected, count '000' of the\n Tape Counter can be stored in memory. This function is useful when it\n is necessary to stop of restart the tape at '000' during fast forward\n or rewind.\n - Search Mode (Searching for a selection, skipping a selection or\n repeating a selection can be preformed at a touch.)\n - Time stand by switch (this is used along with an audio timer when an\n unattended timer-recording or timer-playback is performed.)\n - Dolby NR with MPX filter\n - Bias adjustment (used to obtain optimum bias that matches the type of\n type to be played)\n - Tape selector switch (CrO2, FeCr, Normal, Metal)\n - REC MUTE key (When recording, press this key to delete undesired portions\n between programs such as announcements and commercials. When this key\n is pressed, the tape runs forwards for 5 seconds to make an unrecorded\n section, then the PAUSE function automatically stops the tape. To\n restart recording, press PAUSE key once.)\n - Flurescent PEAK PROGRAM METERS\n - Rec level controls\n - Phone Jack\n - Mic Jacks\n - Input Selector switch\n - SPECS:", "We are researching what support there is on various platforms for applications\nto use multi-byte characters (e.g., Japanese Kanji). We know that Unix\nand X Windows can contain support for the i18N standard (depending on level\nand platform). What support for i18N or wide characters exists on the Mac, \nWindows 3.1 and Windows NT?\n", "I have a Sony 1304s whch I would like to hook up so that I get its \npower though my Quadra 800's power supply. ie, if I had an apple monitor,\nI could plug the monitor directly into the computer so that when I hit\nthe power button the keyboard, both the monitor and computer go on, and\nwhen I shut down, both go off. Is there an extension cord type cable\nI can buy which allows me to plug my existing power cord into and then plug\nthis \"extension cable\" into my Quadra?\n\nAny thoughts and comments would be appreciated,\n\nThanks in advance,\nDerek\n\n******************************************************************************\n DEREK FONG * EMAIL: thewho@plume.mit.edu\n Dept. of Physical Oceanography * thewho@darla.whoi.edu", "I'm having trouble with installing a second IDE drive on a Promise IDE caching\ncontroller. The first drive is a conner 3204 and works fine. The second drive\nis a conner 30174, it is currently unjumpered to be the slave drive. The\nproblem is the slave drive is recognized but is reported back as having no\nfree space. Disabling cache has made no effect. What else should I check for?", "I'm looking for algorithms or articles on virtual sound. What i want to do is\nthe following;\n\nFrom a fast source, eg. a CDROM, several sound sources are read, each having\nit's own defined position and other attributes, eg. direction etc. Given the\nlisteners position and direction, the sum of sound played back in each of the\nlisteners earphones will be a function of this position and direction. This\nmeans that some simulation of the ears coloring of sound relative to it's\nincoming direction have to be done for each sound source. (I think this is\npossible to do with a lookup table of impulse responses for several angles\nrelative to each ear, and interpolate an impulse function from this for a given\nangle. This impulse function could then be convoluted with the sound from the\nsource. This impulse function must be changed every time some sound source\nchanges position or the listener changes orientation.) Additionally some\nreflection, diffusion and absorbtion due to the environment wich is defined\ncould be simulated, but this requires some sort of sound propagandation\nsimulation, kinda like some radiosity algorithm. \n\nHave someone done this and/or written articles on implementing such a system? \n\nPlease post or mail any answers or comments.\n\n-- \nTorgeir Veimo\n\nStudying at the University of Bergen\n\n\"...I'm gona wave my freak flag high!\" (Jimi Hendrix)", "I am considering selling an Atari 1040 and purchasing an IBM compa-\ntible. I need to know what kind of money or trade I can expect to get for\nthe Atari before I bother. I am about to start graduate school, and that\nmeans I'm about to be poor! (There's a price list for used synthesizers on\nrec.music.makers.synth, but no equivalent list for computers...)\n\nThis system is tailor-made for a MIDI musician. Details follow:\n\n * Atari 1040 ST\n TOS 1.0\n 1 MB RAM\n 720K floppy drive\n\n * SupraDrive 20 Mb external SCSI drive, 18 months old\n\n * 12\" Atari monochrome monitor\n\n * Generic 2400 baud external modem\n\n * Software: All software is registered and comes with manuals.\n Passport's Master Tracks Pro, Version 2.5 (sequencing software)\n Dr. T's Copyist Professional (scoring software)\n First Word (word processor - *not* the PD version)\n Megamax's Laser C, Version 2.0 (programming language)\n VIP Professional (spreadsheet package - low-tech Lotus clone)\n Partner ST (desk accessory with integrated calendar, cardfile, etc.)\n Migraph's Easy Draw (an early, pre-Postscript release)\n NeoDesk (improved desktop for Atari ST)\n Universal III (improved file selector for Atari ST)\n Miscellaneous software (including Uniterm communications software)\n\n\n I will consider all prices above $900. I am also willing to\ntrade the Atari system for a quality (386 or 486) PC, including lap-tops.\nI own some PC hardware, so a complete system may not be necessary.\n\n-- \n== John J. Ladasky II (\"ii\") ========================= ladasky@netcom.COM ==\n\"Great composers do not borrow -\t \"Talking about music is like\n they steal.\" - John Ladasky\t ~ - dancing about architecture.\"\n(quote stolen from Stravinsky, who o o - Elvis Costello? Laurie\n stole it from a statement made by > Anderson? Frank Zappa?\n Pablo Picasso about painting, who \\_/ -------------------------------\n stole it from...)\t\t\t \"Property is theft.\" - Groucho", "does anyone have any good code to drive the serial port in syncronos\nmode?\nI really need it BAD\n\nTIA", "I have a basic Apple IIgs system that I need to sell. Everything comes with\noriginal boxes and documentation, and is in excellent condition. Make an\noffer; I'll consider anything:\n\nApple IIgs 1 meg\n3.5\" drive\n13\" AppleColor RGB monitor\nkeyboard/mouse/mousepad/dustcovers/1200 baud Applemodem/random other worthless\n stuff.\n\nHere's a list of the games/apps:\n\n Games:\t\t\t\t Applications:\n\nBattleChess\t\t\t\tSystem Disk\nDefender of the Crown\t\t\tSystem Tools IIGS\nArkanoid II\t\t\t\tWordPerfect\nBubble Ghost\t\t\t\tAppleworks\nShadowgate\t\t\t\tWriter's Choice elite\nBalance of Power\t\t\tDraw Plus\nMarble Madness\t\t\t\tCopy II Plus\nZany Golf\t\t\t\tProTERM communications software\nChessmaster 2100\n\nIf interested, contact:\n\nsunshine@cco.caltech.edu", "I friend of mine installed dos6 at work and is hooked up to a Novell\nnetwork, running Netware 386 v.3.11. The problem he's having is that the\ndoublespace program is using drive 'h' as the swap drive, which is\nconfliting with the networks mapped drives.\n\nIs there switch to place the swap drive to someother drive?\nPlease e-mail....thanks a bunch!!", "As I understand it, THe difference between 3D Studio 2.00 and 2.01 is mainly\nin the IPAS interface, along with a few small bug fixes. The IPAS code runs\na lot faster in the newest version.\n", "Hi there!...\n\t\tWell, i have a 386/40 with SVGA 1Mb. (OAK chip 077) and i don't\n\t\thave VESA TSR program for this card. I need it . \n\t\t\tPlease... if anybody can help me, mail me at:\n\t\t\tlulagos@araucaria.cec.uchile.cl", "A few days ago, my powerbook starts to freeze after appr. 18 seconds of inactivity.\nIt stays alive as long as a program is actively running or as long as the mouse is moved.\n\nDid anyone experience similar problems?\nAny known fixes?\n\nPlease reply by email as I can't read this newsgroup normally.\n\nRegards, Mike Fisher (efisher@ntu.ac.sg)\n--\n---------------------------------------------------\nFrank Siebenlist \nSenior Research Fellow\nGINTIC Institute of Manufacturing Technology (GIMT)\nNanyang Technological University (NTU)\nNanyang Avenue\nSingapore 2263\nTel: +65 799-1215 Fax: +65 791-6377", "\nMurry,\n\n\tWhy don't you just shell out a couple more dollars and get a floptical. \nThey can read high density disks (1.4 MB) as well as flopticals (21 MB). The \nprice of flopticals right now range from $300's - $400's.", ": My next project is to come up with an IF/detector module for fast -- 112\n: to 250 kB/sec -- packet radio use. No fancy modulation scheme, just\n: wide FSK for use at 902 or 1296 MHz.\n\n: I'm a bit familiar with the Motorola 3362 chip, but I wonder if there\n: are newer designs that might work at higher input frequencies.\n\n: My goal is to come up with an inexpensive design for a receiver \"back\n: end\" with IF input on one end and an FSK demondulator on the other. I'm\n: particularly interested in ways to use a higher IF than 10.7 -- do any\n: current chips work up to, say 150MHz with internal downconversion so a\n: normal IF filter can be used?\n\n: Any suggestions?\n\n: John\n\n What you describe is very close to what I built and described in the\n10th ARRL Computer Network Conference proceedings.\n\n I built 10 watt FSK transceivers at 904 MHz. They are essentially\ndouble conversion transverters with digital mod and demod at 29 MHz.\nThe receiver uses the MC13055 which is the same FSK receiver chip I used\npreviouslyu in the 2 Mbps 10 GHz data link I first published in Ham\nRadio and which is now also in the ARRL handbook.\n\n The MC3356, which includes a VHF converter section, could also be used\nat these speeds. There is a newer and perhaps slightly improved design\nof this (the MC13056 if I remember rightly).\n\n While using this would have let me reduce the \"external\" IF count on\nreceive, it didn't really offer all that much help on transmit so I\ndidn't bother with it.\n\n The radios I built were first designed and built for 512 kbps in a 2\nMHz channel but later reduced to half that. These 256 kbps radios\nactually have done quite well in across-the-bench tests at 384 kbps and\nspeed is pretty much a function of filter design. Handling the data\nstream is another matter entirely.\n\n Some of the existing radios are currently deployed on hilltops in a\n\"beacon\" test mode. While there is not yet end-end two-way data flow\ndue to lack of resources to debug software for the digital hardware (MIO\nalso shown in the CNC proceedings), data is perfect copy at n6gn. Even\nthough the data clock is currently at about half speed, the a 2+ kbytes\nof the test text (chapter 55 of Isaiah) takes only a little over 1/8 of\na second.\n\n I've been hoping that someone would get interested enough to step in\nand get involved in writing code to make the whole thing usable (Borland\nIDE environment with remote debugging possible as mentioned in the\nproceedings) but to date a couple of us have been on our own and running\nlow on resources of time, money and energy.\n\n If anyone in the SF bay area wants to check it out there is also a CW\nID after the text on the mark side at 904.740 MHz from beacons on Sonoma\nMtn and Black Mtn (overlooking Si valley). The antenna is horizontally\npolarized.\n\n I guess in retrospect my suggestions are that this is a fairly costly\napproach if the radios are intended for users rather than backbones and\nyou might want to carefully consider your \"target\". If you can't\narrange your paths such that you have complete line-of-sight I think\nyou'll want to address the inter-symbol-interference caused by\nmultipath and probably link C/N budgets if paths are very far from LOS.\nFor more details, see the 10th CNC. I'm currently working on a spread\nspectrum, direct conversion design to address some of these problems.\nI'd be glad to help as I can with any design problems.\n\n73\nGlenn Elmore n6gn", "My friends and I have a buch of books for sale. They are not\n\tbeing used due to change of job, loss of interest etc.\n\n\tRather than letting them gather dust, we would like to pass them\n\ton to others who may use them (of course at a price :-)\n\n\tTopics Include:\n\t- C/C++/Other Programming Languages\n\t- UNIX/DOS/OS2/Windows/Other Operating System topics (General)\n\t- X/Motif/OLIT/Xwin\n\t- Networking and Digital Signal Processing\n\t- Computer Graphics\n\t- Microprocessors and Computer Architecture\n\t- Math\n\t- Software Engineering/Algorithms/Software Testing\n\t- Databases\n\t- Expert Systems\n\n\tThe list is long and rather than posting it here I will email\n\tit by request. I am going to keep the list updated and so will\n\trespond to all requests (lucky me :-)\n\n\tIf you are interested drop me a line", "Is that the low-end configuration? If it is, it has the 68LC040 (no FPU), as \nopposed to all the other configurations with a 68RC040 (has an FPU). Be sure \nyou know what you are getting before you buy!!! The 68RC040 is around \n$350-$400 right now, if you intend to upgrade it from a 68LC040.", "I have some more 35mm slide projectors for sale regardless for my first post.\n\nAll with new light bulb, no lens, no remote controller.\n\nAll inperfect working condition.\n\n1. Kodak Carousel 800 non-AF\n\t$60\n2. Kodak carousel 760H autofocus\n\t$85\n3. Singer Caramate II, w/built-in lens, casette player non-AF\n\t$40\n4. Singer Caramate SP, w/built-in lens, casette player non-AF\n\t$45", "FOR SALE\n\nMS-DOS 6.0 UPGRADE\n\nopen but unregistered\n3.5\" disks\n\n$40 or best offer\n\nPlease mail replies to gt7187c@prism.gatech.edu\n\n", "I am scanning in a color image and it looks fine on the screen. When I \nconverted it into PCX,BMP,GIF files so as to get it into MS Windows the colors\ngot much lighter. For example the yellows became white. Any ideas?", "I'm looking to buy a 100% working keyboard for a 286 system (preferably \na 101 layout.) I'm looking to spend about $20.\n\n\n-- ", "\n\nPink noise is a random signal with more low-frequency components\nthan white noise.\n\nIf you look at the frequency spectrum of white noise at a frequency\nanalyzer, you will find that the spectrum power density is flat, which\nmeans that every frequency is present in the noise signal.\n\nOften pink noise is obtained from white noise by integrating of low-pass\nfiltering a white noise signal. Therefore pink noise contains much more\nlow-frequency components.\n\nThe effect of pink noise is sometimes used to simulate thunder or roaring\nanimals. An additional low-pass filter with variable cutoff frequency will\nexplain you why.\n\nEnjoy it.", " \n\nFinding the circumcenter of a tetrahedron is discussed on page 33 in\n\nCONTOURING: A guide to the analysis and display of spatial data,\nby Dave Watson, Pergamon Press, 1992, ISBN 0 08 040286 0, 321p.\n\nEach pair of tetrahedral vertices define a plane which is a \nperpendicular bisector of the line between that pair. Express each\nplane in the form Ax + By + Cz = D\nand solve the set of simultaneous equations from any three of those\nplanes that have a vertex in common (all vertices are used). \nThe solution is the circumcenter.\n", "For Sale I have 4 (Four) 1 Meg SIMMS (100ns) for the Macintosh.\nIf you want to upgrade that Mac IIsi, IIci, or whatever.\nEmail your offer. Thanks.", "These programs all include complete printed manuals and\nregistration cards. I need to get rid of some excess.\nThey're the latest versions. I've priced these programs\nat less than half the list price and significantly less\nthan the cheapest mail-order price around.\n \n* MICROSOFT ENTERTAINMENT PACK VOLUME ONE, includes eight\ndifferent Windows-based games, including Tetris, Taipei,\nMinesweeper, TicTactics, Golf, Cruel, Pegged, and IdleWild,\nlist $49, sale $20.\n \n* JUST JOKING FOR WINDOWS 1.0, database of jokes from\nWordStar, can quickly find jokes for many different\noccasions, useful for business writers, speechwriters,\npresenters, and others, more than 2,800 jokes under 250\ntopics, can search by keyword and author, list $49, sale \n$25.\n \n* HUMOR PROCESSOR 2.02, DOS-based database of jokes,\nrequires only 384 KB of RAM, along with thousands of\ncategorized jokes you can quickly find also includes an\nonline tutorial for writing your own jokes with proven\ncomedy forumulas, list $99, sale $45.\n \n* HISTORY OF THE WORLD 1.0, multimedia CD-ROM covering cave\nsociety to the present, includes recordings of 25 famous\nspeeches from Churchhill, Gandi, and others, list $795, sale\n$160.\n \nIf you're interested in any of these programs, please phone me at\n215-885-7446 (Philadelphia) and I'll save the package for you.", "I've built xcoral on my system (SunOS 4.1.3, X11R5, Motif 1.2, OW 3.0)\nand it builds fine, but when I run it, any child windows that xcoral\nopens,\n1) locks the mouse into the window area\n2) doesn't accept any input from the mouse.\n\nNeedless to say, this is a pain in the ass, as I have to go find an\nempty terminal to login and kill xcoral.\n\nIs this a problem with OpenWindows or Motif? Is there a patch?\n---\n#######################################################################\n# Bob Campbell # \"Crayons can take you where no #\n# System Manager # Starship can go.\" #\n# HAO, NCAR # -Guinan #\n# rsc@hao.ucar.edu # STTNG # \n#######################################################################\nDISCLAIMER: My views are in no way connected to my employer.", "In <1t7529$agf@agate.berkeley.edu> miyamoto@ucsee.Berkeley.EDU (Carleton\n\n\n\n\nYou're right.\n\nYou cannot read or write a Mac or Apple II 800K 3.5\" disk or Apple II\n5.25\" disk without extra hardware. However, Mac 1.44MB disks can be read\nand written in a PC 3.5\" HD drive with software only. ", "Yes, the Phobos mission did return some useful data including images of Phobos\nitself. The best I've seen had a surface resolution of about 40 meters. By\nthe way, the new book entitled \"Mars\" (Kieffer et al, 1992, University of\nArizona Press) has a great chapter on spacecraft exploration of the planet.\nThe chapter is co-authored by V.I. Moroz of the Space Research Institute in\nMoscow, and includes details never before published in the West. Don't\nknow of any ftp sites with images though.", "I need to get an Apple 40SC tape backup unit working under\nSys 7.0.x, but do not have any drivers/software to access\nthe device. Does anyone know where I can fidn the tools\nto access this device?\n\nAppreciate any info/comments.\n\n--curtis", "Here it is\n\nZoom 14.4k FAX/DATA v.32bis modem. I have evreything only purchased in\nJanuary. Will happily provide the Fax/Comm. software and BOX and manuals.\nI am selling this for ONLY $125+s/h COD.\n\nNicolas Nowinski\n703-435-9590 FEEL FREE TO CALL for quickest service.", "Heavy-duty, commercial, TINY,(6x3x1/2 inch) WATERPROOF, VHF 2 watt, 2 channel,\nhandheld two-way radio. MOTOROLA EXPO purchased NEW for Amateur frequencies\n146.10/70 & 146.34/94. Absolute M I N T condition! Never scratched, dropped,\nopened, or otherwise \"comprosmised\"! Can be re-crystaled for business band.\nhas PL slot. \n Original Price:\n ========================\n\nMOTOROLA EXPO VHF 2WATT/2CHAN. HT--------------------$1200.00\n(comes with portable charger, antenna, manual, \nNEW Ni-Cad pack, back housing belt clip)\nMOTOROLA extra NEW Ni-Cad pack-----------------------$ 40.00\nMOTOROLA extra VHF rubber-duckie antenna-------------$ 12.50\nMOTOROLA Desktop quick charger-----------------------$ 135.00\nMOTOROLA External speaker-mic.-----------------------$ 125.00\nMOTOROLA +12V cig. lighter Battery Eliminator--------$ 80.00\nMOTOROLA Heavy-Duty Nylon holster--------------------$ 25.00\nMOTOROLA EXPO Technical Manuals----------------------$ 5.00\nMOTOROLA EXPO tuning/case opening tools--------------$ N/C\n ---------------------\n $1622.50\n\nWould like $400, or BEST OFFER!!!\n\nThanks a lot!\n\nJeff", "Is the \".3ds\" file format for Autodesk's 3D Animation Studio available?\n\nThanks,\nGary", "CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS\n\t\n NAVY SCIENTIFIC VISUALIZATION AND VIRTUAL REALITY SEMINAR\n\n\t\t\tTuesday, June 22, 1993\n\n\t Carderock Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center\n\t (formerly the David Taylor Research Center)\n\t\t\t Bethesda, Maryland\n\nSPONSOR: NESS (Navy Engineering Software System) is sponsoring a \none-day Navy Scientific Visualization and Virtual Reality Seminar. \nThe purpose of the seminar is to present and exchange information for\nNavy-related scientific visualization and virtual reality programs, \nresearch, developments, and applications.\n\nPRESENTATIONS: Presentations are solicited on all aspects of \nNavy-related scientific visualization and virtual reality. All \ncurrent work, works-in-progress, and proposed work by Navy \norganizations will be considered. Four types of presentations are \navailable.\n\n 1. Regular presentation: 20-30 minutes in length\n 2. Short presentation: 10 minutes in length\n 3. Video presentation: a stand-alone videotape (author need not \n\tattend the seminar)\n 4. Scientific visualization or virtual reality demonstration (BYOH)\n\nAccepted presentations will not be published in any proceedings, \nhowever, viewgraphs and other materials will be reproduced for \nseminar attendees.\n\nABSTRACTS: Authors should submit a one page abstract and/or videotape to:\n\n Robert Lipman\n Naval Surface Warfare Center, Carderock Division\n Code 2042\n Bethesda, Maryland 20084-5000\n\n VOICE (301) 227-3618; FAX (301) 227-5753 \n E-MAIL lipman@oasys.dt.navy.mil\n\nAuthors should include the type of presentation, their affiliations, \naddresses, telephone and FAX numbers, and addresses. Multi-author \npapers should designate one point of contact.\n\nDEADLINES: The abstact submission deadline is April 30, 1993. \nNotification of acceptance will be sent by May 14, 1993. \nMaterials for reproduction must be received by June 1, 1993.\n\nFor further information, contact Robert Lipman at the above address.\n\n\t PLEASE DISTRIBUTE AS WIDELY AS POSSIBLE, THANKS.\n\n\n\n\nRobert Lipman | Internet: lipman@oasys.dt.navy.mil\nDavid Taylor Model Basin - CDNSWC | or: lip@ocean.dt.navy.mil\nComputational Signatures and | Voicenet: (301) 227-3618\n Structures Group, Code 2042 | Factsnet: (301) 227-5753\nBethesda, Maryland 20084-5000 | Phishnet: stockings@long.legs", "\n Oh yeah, I just read in another newsgroup that the T560i uses a\n high quality Trinitron tube than is in most monitors.(the Sony\n 1604S for example) and this is where the extra cost comes from. It\n is also where the high bandwidth comes from, and the fantastic\n image, and the large image size, etc, etc...\n\nIt's also where the two annoying lines across the screen (one a third\ndown, the other two thirds down) come from.\n", "Hello.\n I have Windows 3.1 and I was wondering what is necessary to change the\ndefault system font to something else. I have just obtained MSC/C++ 7.0 with\nSDK, so I'd really like to get my feet wet with doing my first windows pro-\ngram to change the system font.\n\nTx.,\n\nWilliam F. Maton", "I have tested this on a 230 and it does work there. So it would\nseem that the 140 and 170 are out though. One way to tell is to\ngo and open the PowerBook control panel(7.1). There is a setting\nthere that allows you to set the time to wake up the Mac. If it\nis present when you open the control panel, then you can assume that\nSetWUTime will work. \n", "If anyone's still interested, I have ONE Mattel electronic game left for sale\nor trade. It's Baseball (Tan Case) and includes a 9-volt battery and the\noriginal manual! I was able to sell Soccer and Basketball 2 for $70.00 and\ntraded the Football game for a Genesis cart... so, I was happy. I will\nentertain all offers.. cash or Genesis carts... By the way, Baseball is in\nExcellent condition and works perfectly..", "Hey everyone, I'm new to this newsgroup so please excuse me if this is a \ndumb question....I want to build a crossover for my stereo and I need\na coil with an inductance of 6.8mH (actually I need 4). I was wondering\nif anyone knew where I could buy these or how to make these. I've called\nmany places and no one I can find sells them. If you have the answers just\nE - mail me....\nThanks in advance....\nChris\n\n\n\n", "As distributed, twm thinks everything with three or more colormap cells must\nbe a colour screen. Here's a patch to have it use the screen's visual class.\n\n*** twm.c.DIST\tWed May 12 14:56:55 1993\n--- twm.c\tWed May 12 15:47:53 1993\n***************\n*** 343,352 ****\n--- 343,384 ----\n \n \tScr->XORvalue = (((unsigned long) 1) << Scr->d_depth) - 1;\n \n+ #ifdef oldCode\n \tif (DisplayCells(dpy, scrnum) < 3)\n \t Scr->Monochrome = MONOCHROME;\n \telse\n \t Scr->Monochrome = COLOR;\n+ #else\n+ \t{\tXVisualInfo template;\n+ \t\tXVisualInfo *visualInfo;\n+ \t\tint nitems;\n+ \n+ \t\ttemplate.visual = DefaultVisual(dpy, scrnum);\n+ \t\ttemplate.visualid = XVisualIDFromVisual(template.visual);\n+ \t\ttemplate.screen = scrnum;\n+ \t\tvisualInfo = XGetVisualInfo(dpy, VisualIDMask|VisualScreenMask,\n+ \t\t\t\t&template, &nitems);\n+ \t\tif (nitems == 1) {\n+ \t\t\tswitch (visualInfo->class) {\n+ \t\tcase StaticColor:\n+ \t\tcase PseudoColor:\n+ \t\tcase TrueColor:\n+ \t\tcase DirectColor:\n+ \t\t\t\tScr->Monochrome = COLOR;\n+ \t\t\t\tbreak;\n+ \n+ \t\tdefault:\tScr->Monochrome = MONOCHROME;\n+ \t\t\t\tbreak;\n+ \t\t\t}\n+ \t\t}\n+ \t\telse {\n+ \t\t\t(void) fprintf(stderr,\n+ \t\t\t\t\t\"%d Visual match(es), assuming mono\\n\",\n+ \t\t\t\t\tnitems);\n+ \t\t\tScr->Monochrome = MONOCHROME; /* assume */\n+ \t\t}\n+ \t}\n+ #endif\n \n \t/* setup default colors */\n \tScr->FirstTime = TRUE;\n", "\n Yes, E-Machines makes two mini-docks--the Powerlink Presente and the\nPowerLink DeskNet. The Presenter offers a variety of video-out options, \nincluding NTSC, RGB and SVGA. It also has sound out, floppy drive port\nand a power port. Unfortunately no SCSI port and it blocks the serial port.\n The DeskNet has the standard ports plus built-in EtherNet. Alas, none of\nthese have an FPU.\n In the future, RasterOps is putting out a mini-dock, but the name escapes\nme now. It is supposed to support 16-bit color and \"Quadra\" comparable\nvideo speed. No idea if it has an FPU.\n Hope this helps...", "the \noff, \nmachine \nthe \nthink \nin \n\nit \n\n\nSorry, but mine works fine (C650)", "I am looking for a WIN31 driver (or set) for my Diamond \nSpeedstar 1MB video card. Does anybody know of an archive\nsite that has these? I looked at CICA and it had drivers for\nthe Stealth card and for Generic ET4000 cards but not one \nspecifically for the Speedstar. Is there one? Or has Diamond\ndropped the Speedstar out of the driver development loop.\n\nThanks for any info,\n\nRob\n-- ", "Maxtor XT8670S 660 MB SCSI Drive\n16ms access time\n2 years old\nExternal Casing\n\n$777", "*** On 04-21-93 04:51, Ikos had the unmitigated gall to say this:\n\n Ik> I'm in the market to upgrade my BIOS to a Phoenix 1.10 (got a new hard\n Ik> disk, discovered my BIOS doesn't have a \"type 47\") and I would like\n Ik> know where I can purchase one of these things.\n\nCall Phoenix. They can put you on line with replacement BIOS chips. I had\nto do this when I upgraded a Emerson 386/20 to an IDE drive.\n\nAlso, if you are installing an IDE drive, and there is a BIOS setting that\nhas a total volume the same as the IDE drive's volume, try using it. The\nIDE drive can usually respond to a variety of different geometries, as long\nas the setting that you use is equal to or smaller than the drive's actual\nsize. The controller will do the necessary translation automatically, in\nmost cases.\n\nWARNING!!! Do not use a BIOS setting that is even one byte larger than the\nactual size of the drive! A smaller setting will not harm the drive, but\nyou will be sorry if you go even one byte over. Drive damage will not\nresult, but headaches will!\n\n... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic\n--- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10\n ", "Is there a hot-key for the Windows 3.1 screen saver utility? If not, is\nthere an easy way to create one? The reason that I need one is that my\ndad's company is anal retentive about leaving a computer while the\ninformation can be accessed so the employees are not allowed to walk away\nfrom the computer until the screen saver kicks in (as if that is terribly\nsecure). Also, the system manager won't let any software be added so \nanother program such as LOCK32.ZIP from cica or a different screen saver\nis out.\n\nThanks for any and all help.", "Microsoft is the largest software company on the planet, yet I cannot think\nof even *ONE* computing concept that they innovated and brought to market\nbefore anyone else. Xerox-PARC/Apple, Osborne, NeXT, GNU and others have \nbeen pioneers and led the way to the future of computing. What has\nmicrosoft done to be a technological leader? I posted this question before,\nbut I got nary a reply. I make the challenge now to anyone who can come up\nwith something-especially Microsoft employees. I get no response this time,\nI guess it pretty much assures me that there is none--which is what I\nsuspect anyway.", "Hi All!\n\nI tried to run SoftPC, a PC emulation software program, installed on a Silicon \nGraphics workstation from a Human Design System (HDS) X terminal, and \neverything went fine, except the fonts could NOT be converted from one type \nof format to the other - HDS uses different font format from SGI worksation.\nSo, I have the following questions:\n\n1. How do you resolve different font formats from different machines?\n\n2. Is there a program to convert one type of font format to another?\n\nIf you have similar problems/experiences and have found a solution, please \nlet me know. Your help will be greatly appreciated!\n\nThank you in advance for your help and information.\n\nTom Nguen", "I'm interested in building my own PC. Can anyone recommend a\n(UK available) book on the subject, and/or sources for parts?\n\nAlternatively, can anyone recommend a source for a 486DX (33MHz)\nPC (again UK available). I've just seen in Computer Weekly that\nthe March '93 price for these has fallen to sterling 1092 (including\nos, monitor, keyboard, delivery and VAT), but I can't find a single\nadvert that would give me a system at that price.", "How about 250MB/s for 64-bit VLB or 350MB/s for QuickRing {Apple's\nimplimentation of VLB (Byte 10/92:132)} QuickRing is interesting in that\nit allows interleaving with other card so that the 350MB/s can be divided \namong many cards at the same time {NuBus 90 and MCA are about the only card \ninterfaces able to DO anything with that kind of speed and even NuBus 90\nditzes around at ~30MB/s with a burst mode: 80MB/s.\n\"MCA {Also called Micro Channel}\n IBM's 16 and 32-bit bus; \"allows use of more than one CPU in a computer\" \n (DCT) and anything can talk to anything, >>as fast as the two components \n involved can handle it.<< Never took off because it was incompatible with ISA \n and EISA. Planned to be bus interface of IBM PowerPC 601 (Carl Jabido).", "Greetings. I've recently decided to chuck the linear regulators\n\tand learn the \"black magic\" art of switching power supplies...\n\t(before anyone flames me, I KNOW, both have their place :-)\n\n\tAnyways, I've built the basic up & down converters with pretty\n\tgood results (>80% efficiency) but I'm running into problems\n\twhen I try to design & build anything that puts out serious\n\tamps... I know it can be done (I have some 5V@200A guts on my\n\tbench) but something puzzles me: I'm using a simple choke as \n\tthe storage element (basicly a toroid with a single winding)\n\tbut ALL commercial models use transformers with MANY windings.\n\tI traced a few and they seem to use some of the winding for\n\tthe usual error/feedback but some of the others seem to loose\n\tme... What are they for? Better than that, anyone have a full\n\tschematic for one of these that I could get a copy of? I'd\n\tlove to see how they manage to squeeze out so much from such\n\tlow volume :-)\n\n\tMy other problems (in getting high amps & good efficiency) are\n\t1) Lack of sources of ideal components (calculated) and 2)\n\tLimited knowledge of the whole topic... I'm doing this on my\n\town (not school) mind you (in fact, I have yet to take any\n\tcourse that covers transistors ;-)\n\n\tSo, is the answer to #1 the accumulation of dead commercial\n\tmodels and truning into a scavanger (not that it's not what\n\tI'm doing now...) and #2 getting & understanding schematics\n\tand a bit more of the [mind-boggling] theory? \n\n\tTake care.\n\n\tP.S. My goal is 12V @ ~25A in (car battery) -> 250VAC out and\n\t(on the other end) 250V -> +5VDC @ 5A, -5V @ 1A, +12VDC @8A\n\tand -12VDC @1A... the distance between the two will be\n\tmore than 100 feet (of 14-16 gauge) but less than 300 feet.\n\tWould like to have a working model in a year or so... :-) \n\t(Do I have a chance to make it?)", " An is readable by WinGif, Paintshop Pro, Paint, and god knows how\nmany other programs.\n", "\n\nOk, I was under the impression that it accepted digital input.\n\nI still don't know for sure if it accepts BOTH interlaced and \nnon-interlaced as I have gotten conflicting info.", "Dear Binary Newsers,\n\nI am looking for Quick C or Microsoft C code for image decoding from file for\nVGA viewing and saving images from/to GIF, TIFF, PCX, or JPEG format. I have\nscoured the Internet, but its like trying to find a Dr. Seuss spell checker \nTSR. It must be out there, and there's no need to reinvent the wheel.\n\nThanx in advance.\n\n//////////////", "\nHmmm... how about a piece of copper wire? 0 to 5V input range, standard\nTTL output, instantaneous conversion time!\n\n[ (-: for the humor impaired ]\n", "Due to some problems with my IDE drive, I LL formatted the Maxitor7213AT.\nNow it started to give me some errors in some applications. I was told\nMaxitor has a utility called IDE_INT in their BBS, anyone tried it? Can\nsome one tell me what that BBS number is? Or better, can I find the file\nin some ftp site? Or perhaps someone can email it to me? Thanks.\n\nFeng", "-| In article <1993Apr28.200843.83413@embl-heidelberg.de>, tuparev@EMBL-Heidelberg.DE (Georg Tuparev) writes...\n-| > \n-| > \n-| >ANNOUNCEMENT:\tThe \"HyperKnowledge\" PROJECT for NeXTSTEP\n-| \n-| I know this is kinda off the subject of sci.space, but not really, I want to\n-| answer this for their, as well as everyone else's information. What these\n-| people are proposing, by and large already exists and can be purchased today.\n-| \n-| It is called labview by National Instruments. IT is a wonderful object\n-| IT is a wonderful object oriented graphical programming language.\n-| [some lines deleted]\n\nI am afraid you are mis-directed. NeXTSTEP is an operating system as opposed to \na package. I have read a little about it but since Steve Jobs does not seem to \nhave the marketing capabilities of Bill Gates my info. is limited. Probably why\nthe far inferior Windows NT is going to be more widely distributed (but that\nis another flame-ridden story). Some of the innovative features of NeXTSTEP are\nbinary compatibility across platforms (eg you can just copy your program from\na Sparc to a PC and it would run, as opposed to buying the version of the package\nported to a PC), graphical object-oriented design (its all WSIWIG postscript), \nsupports parallel hetrogeneous processing, and best of all it is based around \nthe Mach micro-kernel so you can make it look like Unix with X, or DOS, or NT or \neven VMS if you feel the need. No package out there comes even close. I hope \npeople will subscribe to the HyperKnowledge project and NeXTSTEP finally\ntakes off in my lifetime :-)", "For Sale\n\nDining Table (wooden) with 6 chairs $ 125\nDining Table Scandinavian style $ 30\nSteel Desk - free", "I'm running xterm under X11R5, Motif 1.1, mwm and UNIX SVR4 on a UNISYS\n386 based machine. My default shell is /bin/csh or the C shell. Whenever\nI run xterm, I get the following message before the first C shell prompt:\n\nWarning: no access to tty; thus no job control in this shell...\n\nAfter this, I can't run any job control commands like fg, bg etc. Also,\nI can't run another xterm from the command line of this xterm (I can only\nlaunch additional xterms from a .mwmrc menu).\n\nI'd appreciate some help with this problem, or pointers to where I can get\nsome help. By the way, my environment variable TERM is set to xterm.\n\n----------------------------\nSaad Mufti\nPersonal Library Software", "I have never worked with really small signals before and have a few \nquestions about low level noise. I have noticed that the waveform \nsynthesizer that I am using (Analogic 2020) has some relatively large\ncommon mode noise on it. I am using this synthesizer to 'null' out another\ntransient waveform and am amplifying the difference (~200uV) several hundred \ntimes. The 2020 has about 1-3 mVp-p of common mode noise and this tends to\nmake my measurements hard to repeat. (The noise is not quite in sync with \nline frequency, and on a spectrum analyzer, the main component is about 64Hz).\n\nHow can I get rid of the noise? When I look at the spectrum using an\nHP 3582A (audio range analyzer), the noise goes away the minute I switch to \n'isolation' on the input. I am guessing the anlayzer has a diff amp on the \ninput since it will read accurately down to DC.", "Hi everyone,\n I'm experiencing a very annoying problem with background printing\non the HP Deskwriter (Sys 7.1, Deskwriter driver 3.1, PowerBook 170).\nWhen I print from, say, MS Word, I see the message \"Spooling to disk,\"\nbut sometimes nothing prints. Checking my memory map thanks to Now Menus,\nI see that HP Backgrounder has not loaded. Restarting fixes this. It\nseems to me that HP Backgrounder is quitting unexpectedly, and that its\nstatus as \"Multifinder NOT aware\" allows it to do this without my being\ninformed by a message such as \"HP Backgrounder quit unexpectedly.\" Have\nyou ever seen this problem before.\n There may or may not be a related problem. I have experienced\nproblems in putting my computer to sleep. Choosing \"sleep\" from the\nFinder menu sometimes does nothing. Today on a whim I checked the memory\nmap, and I discovered that HP backgrounder was not loaded. Restarted\nreloaded HP backgrounder, and I was able to put my machine to sleep as\nusual. Just a mere coincidence or is the HP backgrounder crash preventing\nmy machine from going to sleep?\n\tHas anyone seen this problem? I'm seriously considering the purchase of\na StylewriterII because of the poor quality of the HP software. ", "Tapes for sale, $3.00 each and the shipping is included.\nThose tapes are 1 year old and are hardly used, so there should\nnot be any problem with it. I really want to sell them, so make\nme a package offer if you wish to.\n\nEagles\t\tThe Best of Eagles\nEagles\t\tHotel California\nElton John\tSleeping with the past\nGloria Estefan\tInto the Light\nJames Ingram\tThe Power of Great Music\nKenny G.\tDuo Tones\nLethal Weapon 3 ( music from the motion picture )\nMariah Carey\tMTV Unplugged EP\nMichael Bolton\tTime, Love and Tenderness\nThe Phantom of the Opera\nGenesis\t\tWe can't dance\nPhil Collins\t... But Seriously\nQueen\t\tThe Works\nQueen\t\tLive Magic\nWilson Phillips\n\nSend me your offer...\n\nPlease send your offer to koutd@hirama.hiram.edu\n\nthanks you,", "This is the file BIGNUMS.TXT from ripem.msu.edu, last updated April 1993.\n\nIn response to Email requests, I have assembled this list of\nlarge-integer arithmetic packages of which I have heard.\nMost of these are C function libraries, available in source form.\n\nFor your convenience, I have placed copies of\nsome of these on ripem.msu.edu (35.8.1.178). They are\navailable for anonymous FTP in the directory \"pub/bignum\".\nHowever, what I have may not be the most current version in all cases.\n\nHere they are, in no particular order:\n\nmp\n Multiple Precision package that comes with some Unixes\n \n Multiple precision package accessed via -lmp flag on your\n compiler. Provides +, -, *, /, gcd, exponentiation,\n sqrt. Comes with SunOS, NeXT Mach, BBN Mach 1000, \n and probably a few others. See \"man mp\". \n Object code only, of course.\n\nPARI\n Henri Cohen, et al., Universite Bordeaux I, Paris, FRANCE\n \n Multiple precision desk calculator and library routines.\n Contains optimized assembly code for Motorola 68020, \n semi-optimized code for SPARC, and apparently rather slow\n generic C version. Does both integers and reals.\n Does vectors and matrices as well as scalars.\n Contains a number of advanced functions, some of which I've\n never heard of. (\"Weber's function\"?)\n Has a factorization function, primality test, & other related stuff.\n Plenty of TEX documentation.\n Public domain, but you can't distribute modified versions.\n Available via anonymous FTP from math.ucla.edu. There seem to\n be Mac- and NeXT-specific versions there in addition to:\n Filename: pari-1.35a.tar.Z\n \nArithmetic in Global Fields (Arith)\n Kevin R. Coombes, David R. Grant\n \n Package of routines for arbitrary precision integers or\n polynomials over finite fields. Includes basic +, -, *, /\n and a few others like gcd. Source code in C.\n Distributed under the terms of the GNU public license.\n Includes man pages and TEX documentation.\n Filename: arith.tar.Z\n\nArbitrary Precision Math Library\n Lloyd Zusman Los Gatos, CA\n \n C package which supports basic +, -, *, /. Provides for radix\n points (i.e., non-integers). Not as polished as the others here.\n Posted to comp.sources.misc in October 1988.\n Filename: apml.tar.Z\n \nBigNum\n J. Vuillemin, INRIA, FRANCE, and others.\n Distributed by Digital Equipment Paris Research Lab (DECPRL)\n \n A \"portable and efficient arbitrary-precision integer\" package.\n C code, with generic C \"kernel\", plus assembly \"kernels\" for\n MC680x0, Intel i960, MIPS, NS32032, Pyramid, and of course VAX.\n This is probably one of the better-known packages of this type.\n Implements +, -, *, /, mod, plus logical operations OR, AND, XOR.\n Both signed and unsigned arithmetic available.\n Available via email from librarian@decprl.dec.com.\n You will receive 5 shell archives. Give your postal address\n and you will also receive printed documentation from France.\n Package includes TEX documentation.\n Publicly available for non-commercial use.\n I removed this from my archive when I heard a rumor that PRL\n doesn't like others to distribute it. However, BIGNUM *is*\n distributed as part of ecpp (see below).\n\nLenstra's package\n Arjen Lenstra Bellcore\n \n Portable unsigned integer package written entirely in C.\n Includes +, -, *, /, exponentiation, mod, primality testing,\n sqrt, random number generator, and a few others. The package\n was uncommented and undocumented; I have tried to add enough\n comments to get by. This is the only of these packages that I\n have actually used. It works well and is very portable. \n I haven't done any benchmarks against the others, but the code \n looks clever & Lenstra is an accomplished number theorist.\n Unlike the other packages here, this one requires you to allocate\n storage statically--only a problem if your numbers are really huge.\n Arjen has placed the code in the public domain. \n Filename: lenstra.tar.Z\n\nlenstra_3.1\n Arjen Lenstra, Bellcore\n\n An improved version of Arjen's package above. This one\n does signed arithmetic and dynamic allocation (which can be turned\n off as an option). Has a few new routines, too. \"lenstra_3.1\" contains\n minor bugfixes to the previously-available \"lenstra_2\" and \"lenstra_3\".\n Filename: lenstra_3.1.c\n\nbmp (Brent's Multiple Precision?)\n R. P. Brent\n\n 1981 vintage FORTRAN code to do extended precision floating &\n fixed point arithmetic. Includes most of the mathematical\n functions you'd find in a FORTRAN run-time library.\n This code is an ACM algorithm, number 524.\n To obtain, send a mail message to netlib@ornl.gov\n containing the line \"send mp.f from bmp\" or better yet, perhaps\n just start with \"help\".\n\nSPX\n Kannan Alagappan & Joseph Tardo, DEC\n \n This is a huge prototype public key authentication system\n based on RSA. I mention it here because those who have heard\n of SPX have probably correctly guessed that it contains a large\n integer package and I want to inform you that the large integer\n package it contains is indeed DEC's BigNum from France.\n You can get a beta test copy of SPX from crl.dec.com (192.58.206.2). \n Use it only for testing, as it \"may\" expire on a certain date.\n (I don't know whether this has expired yet.)\n\namp (Antti's Multiple Precision?)\n Antti Louko alo@kampi.hut.fi\n\n Multiple precision integer package in C. Includes +, -, *, /, %,\n pow, mod, 1/x mod y, random, sqrt, gcd. Available for non-commercial\n use. The package includes \"share-secret\", a public key system based\n on the Diffie-Hellman algorithm.\n This is normally part of the well-known \"des-dist.tar.Z\",\n but I have removed the DES part to avoid having to deal with \n cryptographic export laws, and have named the result:\n Filename: amp.tar.Z\n\ngennum \n Per Bothner U of Wisconsin-Madison\n\n C++ routines and classes to do generic arithmetic, both\n integer and rational. \n Formerly available on sevenlayer.cs.wis.edu. However, it\n seems to have disappeared. Sorry.\n\nMIRACL\n (By someone in Dublin, Ireland)\n\n Integer and fractional multiple precision package.\n Includes factorization, primality testing, encryption.\n Not public domain, apparently. It is available from the Austin\n Code Works. (See ads in Byte Magazine or Dr. Dobbs.)\n\nprecision\n Dave Barrett barrettd@tigger.colorado.edu\n\n Multiple precision integer package in C with +,-,*,/, sqrt, rand,\n mod, pow, log. Simple vector support. Does dynamic allocation of memory.\n Free as long as you don't sell it or any program that uses it.\n Filename: precision.tar.Z\n\nUBASIC\n Prof. Yuji Kida, Rikkyo University, Nishi-Ikebukuro 3, Tokyo 171, Japan\n kida@rkmath.rikkyo.ac.jp\n\n Multiple-precision version of the BASIC programming language,\n for MS-DOS. Includes floating point. Said (by Keith Briggs)\n to be pretty fast. Object only, I think. ervin@morekypr.bitnet\n fast arithmetic. Has a version optimized for 386 machines. Includes\n routines to do MPQS, the fastest currently known general factoring\n algorithm. An additional file is at both sites to allow MPQS to use\n hard drives so that it can factor up to 80 digits. Many number\n theoretical functions are included in UBASIC. It allows over 2500\n digits of precision.\"\n Available via anonymous FTP from shape.mps.ohio-state.edu,\n or simtel20.army.mil, or wuarchive.wustl.edu.\n\ncalc_v22\n Unknown\n\n MS-DOS C-like language that allows \"infinite\" precision.\n Nice intrinsic functions. ervin@morekypr.bitnet reports problems\n when changing precision on the fly.\n See simtel20 or wuarchive.\n\nbriggs_arith\n Keith Briggs (kbriggs@mundoe.maths.mu.oz.au)\n\n Turbo Pascal 5 source for routines that do multiple-precision\n +, -, *, /, sqrt, gcd, factoring, rand for integers; also includes\n +, -, *, / and rand for rational numbers.\n Filename: briggs_arith.pas\n\nInstitute fur Experimentelle Mathematik\n Dr Gerhard Schneider (?)\n\n Fast C multiple-precision subroutine library.\n I don't know anything about it; sl25@ely.cl.cam.ac.uk says\n to contact MAT420@DE0HRZ1A.BITNET for more info.\n Postal Address:\n Institute fur Experimentelle Mathematik\n EllernStr 29\n D4300 Essen-12 GERMANY\n\nLongInt\n Markus Mueller (mueller@komsys.tik.ethz.ch)\n\n \"Multi precision arithmetic written in MODULA-2, with the most time critical\n parts written in Assembler. Includes basic arithmetics (+, -, *, /, %) as\n well as arithmetics MODULO a number. An additional module provides a\n collection of procedures for primality testing, gcd, multiplicative\n inverse and more. The package is part of a Privacy Enhanced Mail (PEM)\n package which includes a PEM mailer, RSA key generator and Certificate\n generation tools.\"\n\n Source is in Modula-2, C, and assembler for Sun 3. LongInt has\n also been ported to MS-DOS under Logitech Modula-2 and Turbo\n Assembler. Availability: free for university use (research and\n education); otherwise, a source license is required. To obtain,\n write or email to:\n\n Markus Mueller\n Bertastrasse 7\n CH-8953 Dietikon\n Switzerland\n email: mueller@komsys.tik.ethz.ch\n\nbignum-1.2\n Henrik.Johansson@Nexus.Comm.SE\n\n Bignum package written in portable C. Will in the future\n conform to the Common Lisp functions that handles integers.\n Currently includes +, -, *, /, exponentiation, \"exptmod\",\n comparison, random numbers, and gcd.\n Filename: bignum-1.2\n\nGNU Multiple Precision\n GNU (Free Software Foundation) multiple precision package.\n I haven't looked at it yet. This is current as of April 1992,\n but there may be a more recent version by the time you read \n this. This package is very widely available on FTP sites.\n Filename: gmp-1.2.tar.Z\n\nElliptic Curve Primality Proving \n Francois Morian, France.\n\n Large package to prove the primality of any prime.\n Includes Inria's BIGNUM package. \n Obtained from ftp.inria.fr (128.93.1.26).\n Filename: ecpp.V3.4.1.tar.Z\n\nPGP (Pretty Good Privacy)\n Philip Zimmermann prz@sage.cgd.ucar.EDU\n\n Intel-based crypto package that includes bignum routines in C,\n said to be quite fast for Intel processors. Unix and Mac\n versions also available.\n The crypto package violates RSA patents, but the bignum routines\n can be used without fear of legal repercussions.\n\nBell's Arbitrary Precision Calculator\n David I. Bell, Australia (dbell@pdact.pd.necisa.oz.au)\n\n Arbitrary-precision calculator with good online help, C-like\n language, many builtin functions, support for integers,\n rational numbers (they work like floating point), complex numbers,\n matrices, strings, lists, files, \"objects\". Includes \n gcd, primality testing, even trig functions. Recommended.\n (Large package, though.) Obtained from comp.sources.unix.\n Filename: calc-1.24.7.tar.Z\n\nBuilt-in support in other languages\n Various\n\n Multiple precision arithmetic is available in a number of \n programming languages, such as Lisp and ABC (cf. mcsun.eu.net).\n Perl (by Larry Wall, available from devvax.jpl.nasa.gov)\n includes source, in Perl, for such a package, but it's probably\n not suitable for serious use.\n For some of these, source code may be available. This list is\n long enough, so I'm not going to pursue it aggressively.\n\nThanks to Ed Vielmetti and several others who contributed to this list.", "Yes -- my error -- you will need the DIFF between the\nstandard console.h and console.c supplied with\nSymantec's THINK C 5.0.4 and the specially modified\none that works with MacPGP 2.2.\n\nI added the two DIFFs to the end of the signature\nfile \"MacPGP2.2srcSIGNATURE\" in pub/grady of netcom.com\n\nPlease download via anonymous FTP and, using SED (oops),\ncutting and pasting, fix-em-up. \n\nWill one of you Mac-geniuses PLEASE port this to MacApp\nor AppMaker, or...?\n\nGrady\n", "I've acquired an old Logitech Series 7 (3-button) mouse, and I'm told\nthat this is a bus mouse. Does anyone want to unload an old\n(pc-clone) bus-card for this mouse?\n\nemail replies to: bobmon@cs.indiana.edu", "Hello, if you have any experience/knowledge/comments/advice/etc about\nCompaq's EISA Deskpro machines, please reply. (preferably via email)\n\nI'm thinking of getting one and am looking for any & all user comments.\n\nThanks.", "For some reason I never saw the original post on this thread, but if you are\nlooking for fast polygon routines on vga on a PC, you really can't go past\nthe mode X stuff from Dr Dobbs. This code is all p.domain (as far as I know),\nand in the original articles, the routines were all presented as dumb vga\nroutines, and then optimised to modeX with some interesting discussion along\nthe way.\nIf you are interested, I could find out more details of the issues in question,\n(I have them at home).", "\nBrad,\n For an antenna, gain is synonymous with directionality. The only way \nto get gain (>1) out of an antenna is to design in directionality. The \n\"gain\" of an antenna is defined as the signal increase (for a preferred \ndirection) over the signal obtained by an isotropic antenna.", "\nFirstly, I would never consider trying to make a one-shot timer. Your 2F2 cap\nwill have been designed as a RAM battery substitute, rather than for use in\napplications where you wish to drain the cap with a constant current. Their\nperformance, in some respects, is more akin to batteries than to a normal cap.\nThe other point is that big electro's are usually rated with -5%+20% tolerances,\nso calculating exactly what capacitance you have (particularly when considering\nthe cold).\n\nYou should be looking at designing a micropower oscillator and divider chain,\nthat \"rolls over\" (from zero to maximum count, or vice-versa) once every\n1,209,600 seconds. If you were to use something like a 110Hz clock, you would\nneed a divider chain of 2^27, to give an error of less than one percent in the\nfiring times over the six week period. Of course, you could trim the 110Hz\noscillator to give you exact time, but the likelyhood of the oscillator\nremaining exactly constant at -40 is low anyway.\n\nI would suspect that there would be far more battrey drain in firing the\nsolenoid than there would be in the timer circuit.\n\nCaveat - I'm not experienced in low temperature electronics, so I can't\nguarantee that this (or any other) approach is the best for inhospitable\nconditions.\n\nJohnH\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n | _ |_ _ |_| _ _| _| Electronics Department\n |_| (_) | | | | | | (_| (_| (_| \\/ School of MPCE\n ---------------------------------/- Macquarie University\n Sydney, AUSTRALIA 2109\n\n Email: johnh@mpce.mq.edu.au, Ph: +61 2 805 8959, Fax: +61 2 805 8983\n", "Yes, Duo prices have dropped. I don't have the MSRP reductions,\n(though you can find it in a recent TidBITS, archived at sumex)\nbut here's the Berkeley educational price list (old -> new)\n\nDuo 210 4/80 $1919 -> 1569\nDuo 230 4/80 $2225 -> 1961\nDuo 230 4/120 $2532 -> 2268\nDuo 230 4/120/modem $2746 -> 2473\n\nSo there.\n\nJoel\n", "Hi,\n\nDoes anyone know where I can get the developer notes for the new Mac models\n(like IIvx, LC III, Centris)?\n\nThank's for any information. Please reply by email.", "\n\n\n\nYou allways could port and use emu from export.lcs.mit.edu:contrib/emu.tar.Z.\nWe've implemented a blinking text cursor for the very reasons people mentioned.\nYou can even configure the actual size of the text cursor (horizontal / ver-\ntical line cursors, smaller block cursors), turn on and off blinking,\nset the blink rate and so on. You even get blinking text - ok, enough\nadvertising.\n\nI haven't looked at the xterm code in this respect, but from the memories\nI have when we had to decide whether to start with xterm and make it do\nwhat we wanted (mostly the blinking text), I'd say it won't be easy, since\nxterm is a hairy mess (understandable if you follow it's roots back to\nX10).\n\nThe actual task to get the cursor to blink isn't that difficult if you\nprovide the right hooks. As Antonio mentioned, you'll have to show the\ncursor directly after it has moved, or people will become confused.\nSince it's a good idea to take the cursor off the screen when you \ndo anything on screen anyways, this isn't very complicated. You'll just\nhave to start the blink process with the cursor showing directly after\nit's mapped.\n\nAs for the portability of emu and it's newest version. The one on export\nis still the same as on the R5 contrib tape. We wanted to get out a new\nrelease for over six months now, but unfortunately we're drowning in work.\nBut since the changes aren't affectiong emu's behavior much, I'd say\nwhoever wants to try emu shouldn't wait for a new version.\n\nAs is, emu won't work on BSD derived systems (e.g. SUNs) with anything else \nthan a csh. There is a fix to this, which is very short (remove one line\nof code). I'll put this on export today.\n\nMichael", "Tracy your monitor is on its way. Mike Damico\n \n", "\n----------\n\nThis is not news. In fact it's where I got the idea from, since it was\nsuch a neat item. Mattell made it, I believe, modeled after a \"space \nsaber\" or \"light sword\" or something likewise theme-y. My addition was \nusing a motor for continuous display, and polar effects in addition to \ncharacter graphics. I should have protected it when I had the chance. \nNo one to kick but myself...", "Hello, I have a motherboard and a case for sale as a package.\nBoth of them came from a CompuAdd computer I bought last August and am \n presently upgrading.\nHere are the specs--\n\nMotherboard\n-----------\nCyrix 486SL 25 MHz microprocessor\nChips and Technology chipset (SCATsx V2.3.6 SLSLC)\n8 SIMM banks for a maximum of 32 Megs of RAM\nBUILT-IN Floppy and Hard Drive Controllers\nBUILT-IN ports--1 Parallel, 2 Serial (9 and 25 pin)\nBUILT-IN Paradise SVGA controller with 1 meg of RAM (Windows drivers inc.)\n -can do up to 1024x768 @ 256 colors\n -based on the Western Digital WD90C31 chip\nMath co-processor slot\n3 16-bit expansion slots and 2 8-bit expansion slots\n\nCase\n----\nLow-Profile Desktop\nVery nice grey color\n150 watt power supply\nRoom for 2 floppies plus HD\n\nMouse\n-----\n3-button\nMicrosoft-compatible\nGrey color matches case\n\nAll original manuals and documentation, video drivers, etc. are included.\n\nYou are probably wondering why I must sell the case with the motherboard.\nIt is simply because the case is custom-made for this particular board and\n you would be hard-pressed to fit another MB in it. However, the case and\n this motherboard were made to go together and fit perfectly.\n\nAs you can see, since this board includes drive controllers AND a video \n controller, you can save some money by buying this unit and not a MB\n where you would need to get IO cards, video card, and drive controllers\n Its just a lot more convenient on the whole\n\nI would like to ask about $500 for this whole package. I think this is a fair\n price given the facts that it includes a video card and drive controllers/IO\n ports. All you need to do is add drives, a monitor, RAM, and a keyboard. \n Also keep in mind that it isn't a generic board, but from CompuAdd.\nI also will entertain all serious offers.\n\nPlease email at jmu@acpub.duke.edu\n\nThanks", "I am new to Windows and I wanted to know how to setup the terminal program.\nI have a modem in COM4, but when it try to configure it inside Windows\nI get the messare \"Unsupported COM ...\"\n\nCan anyone help me?", "Hello all,\n\nIf anyone knows of a place to get the case to hold the power supply and\nmotherboard of a Quadra 950 please let me know. I have tried some mail\norder places and some local stores. Both groups would prefer that I part\nwith over $1000 to get just the case. In my eyes this seems about $600-$700\nto much. Any comments? I currently own the guts of a 950.\n\nPlease email me or post to this group w/ info,", "We are making a transition from NextStep to X-windows. I am trying to find the best GUI tool for our needs. I have looked at several tools but they all seem basically the same (each salesman will beg to differ). I realize that there are differences but I don't have an infinate amount of time to discover what they are. The tools I have looked at so far are UIM/X, X-designer, Tele-Use, tcl/tk,Interviews, and SUIT. \nSo far I've drawn the following conclusions:\n\n1) The builder for Interviews is not very mature, bad docs\n2) Tele-Use is very expensive and uses a proprietary toolkit\n3) UIM/X & X-designer seem about the same, even though X-designer does not have a interpreter (I'll by Centerline if I need one)\n4) tcl/tk is a little buggy\n5) I know very little about the ICS Builder (just have the sales info)\n6) Due to a corporate agreement X-designer is much cheeper than any other comercial product.\n7) For the time I'm spending I could have bought all of them (well different money)\n8) We will have to live with any shortcomings and make it work\n9) this type of tool seems great, but noone seems to talk about them on the net. Is there another news group for this ?\n10) SUIT cost too much for comercial development.\n\nI'm hoping someone out there has a strong opinion on at least one of these products.\n\nthanks \n", "Have you tried re-installing the software? Otherwise I would be dubious about\nsimple ways to change that screen. Is it not designed to be an embarassment to\nwould be pirates?\n\n-Charles\n", "\nIf you are looking for viewer try VPIC60", "We have been shipping for over one year the Adobe Display PostScript (DPS)\non Silicon Graphics workstations, file servers, and supercomputers.\nThe Adobe Illustrator 3.5 for Silicon Graphics machines was released\nlast February. Adobe and SGI announced last October that Photoshop\nwill be available on SGI systems in 1993. Initial release will support \n24-bit color graphics.", "Hi,\n\nI'm looking to buy a 17\" monitor soon, and it seems that I can't decide what\nmonitor I should buy. I have a MAG 17S (this is a .25 dpi version and it using\na TRINITON tube) and a NANAO 560i in mind.\n\nDoes anyone know of any specification or problems these monitor have?\n\nActually, any related opinions at buying a 17\" monitor will be welcomed.\n\n\n Thanks in advance,", "\nThis may be a safety issue; the CSA is more paranoid in certain areas than\nUL and such. Two caps in series means that you don't have a short if one\nof them shorts.", "\nGet ghostscript and ghostview. Ghostview is a postscript previewer\nthat uses ghostscript.\n\nFrom the ghostview README:\n\n\n\n Ghostview -- An X11 user interface for ghostscript.\n\nGhostview is full function user interface for ghostscript 2.4.\n\nBrief list of features:\n - Ghostview parses any known version of Adobe's Document Structuring\n Conventions.\n - Page size is automatically determined from the Document Structuring\n Comments. The user is able to override the values from the comments.\n - Window size is set to the bounding box for Encapsulated PostScript figures.\n - Default page size is Letter and can be changed via Xresources or\n application defaults file to A4 (or any other valid size) for our\n European friends.\n - Scrollbars appear when necessary.\n - Page orientation is automatically determined from the Document Structuring\n Comments. The user is able to override the values from the comments.\n - Ability to view at 4 orientations: Portrait, Landscape, Upside-down,\n and Seascape (for those who rotate landscape the other direction).\n - Ability to preview in any supported visual. (Can preview in gray-scale \n or color on a Color monitor.)\n - Ability to mark pages for printing, or saving. (Good for people that\n printed a 100 page document and lost page 59 due to a printer jam.)\n - Can popup zoom windows at printer resolution\n (1 display dot = 1 printer dot).\n\n The Ghostview distribution includes a Ghostview Widget that people\n are encouraged to use in other programs.\n\n Ghostview-1.3 is available via anonymous ftp from:\n prep.ai.mit.edu:/pub/gnu/ghostview-1.3.tar.Z\n appenzell.cs.wisc.edu:/pub/ghostview-1.3.tar.Z\n\n\nFrom the ghostscript README:\n\n*****************************************************\n* This file describes version 2.4.1 of Ghostscript. *\n*****************************************************\n\n********\n******** An overview of Ghostscript ********\n********\n\nGhostscript is the name of a set of software that provides:\n\n - An interpreter for the Ghostscript language, which very\nclosely resembles the PostScript (TM) language; and\n\n - A set of C procedures (the Ghostscript library) that\nimplement the graphics capabilities that appear as primitive\noperations in the Ghostscript language.\n\nThe Ghostscript language interpreter and library are written entirely\nin C, with some assembly-language accelerators for MS-DOS platforms.\nCurrently, Ghostscript is known to run on the following platform\nfamilies:\n\n - IBM PC and compatibles with EGA, VGA, SuperVGA, or compatible\n graphics under MS-DOS 3.1, 3.3, or 5.0;\n\n - A wide variety of Unix systems using X Windows version 11,\n release 3, 4, and 5, including Sun-3, Sun-4, Sun-386i,\n Sun SPARCStation 1; generic 80386 machines running 386/ix;\n H-P 9000/300 and 9000/800; DECStation 2100 and 3100; VAX\n running Ultrix; Sequent Symmetry; Convex C1 and C2;\n Tektronix 4300; SGI Iris Indigo;\n\n - Sun workstations (Sun-3, SPARC, Sun-386i) running SunView;\n\n - VAX, VMS with X11R3/4/5, gcc and DEC C compiler (DEC C compiler\n version 3.1 or later is required).\n\n\n(Get ghostscript from the same ftp site you get ghostview.)\n", "\nThe 9144w4 is the date code but none of my books list a W03563.\nWhat is it out of and can you tell us what kind of circuit it is in?\n\nIn the odd case that 9144w4 is not the date code, NTE says a 9144-60\nis an AM reciever subsystem and a 9144-61 is an FM subsystem, but these\nare both in 16 pin packages.", "I've been troubleshooting the existence of way too many General Protection\nFaults on a 486-33, Eisa-VLB, system. At this point I think I've narrowed\nthe problem down to the video drivers for the Volante Warp-10 adapter by\nNational Design, INc.\n\nYet somehow I find this hard to believe. Does anyone else have any\nexperiences with this board.", "Reduced Prices! \nI have a list of things forsale on behalf of my brother, who's moving (moved\nalready)\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tOffer:\n1) Black and Decker Duster Plus (Portable Hand Vaccum)\t\n \tpurchased for $32, \t\t\t\t\t $12\n\n2) SR-1000 Dual Cassette Portable Player, AM/FM\n5-Band graphics Equalizer, high speed dubing, Duo \nTape.Tape deck A, seems to have lost treble sound. \nBut, I bet it's fixable.\n\tpurchased for $80\t\t\t\t\t $25\n\n3)Monolux Zoom MicroScope, up to 1200X magnification\nMade in Japan, includes case and accessories\n\tpurchased for $50\t\t\t\t\t $20\n\n4)Sunbeam 1400 Hair Dryer, the dryer you put your \nhead under/into. You know, the ones you see in the salons.\n(Don't ask me why my bro had it)\n\tpurchased for $60\t\t\t\t $24\n\n5)Everylast Speed Bag, all leather. Brand new, never \nused\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t $10\n\n6)Osterizer Pusle Matic Blender, with 10 speeds \nand a cookbook, 5 years old\t\t\t\t\t $10\n\tpurchased for $50\n\n8)Binolux Binoculars . 7x35, extra wide angle\n525ft. at 1000yds. with case. very new.\t\t $20\n\n9)Proctor and Silex Spray,Steam and Dry Iron.\nvery new.\t\t\t\t\t\t\t $10\n\n\nAny questions, contact me thru e-mail and I will reply expeditously\nAnd always, S+H are not included, so please consider this.\n\nAnd lastly, I'm a very reasonable.Very Reasonable.", "Does anyone has a table about the size of the wire to the amount of current it can carry. Probably in the 1-15amp range. My friend is interested in converting a Mazda into an electric car. Needed information for estimation. Thanks in advance. ", "The 4/100 prints out the following message about it's framebuffer\n\ncgtwo0 at vme24d16 0x400000 vec 0xa8 \ncgtwo0: Sun-3 color board, fast read\n\nAnybody know the story on this?\n--\n\n- Can I have an IMPULSE ITEM instead?", "Claris Filemaker Pro Database Manager for MacIntosh, still unpackaged.", "****UNIX****UNIX****UNIX****UNIX****UNIX****UNIX****UNIX****\n\nFORSALE:\n\n ESIX UNIX System V Release 4 - NEW!\n 2 user license system - $400\n Unlimited user license system - $450\n 2 user license system with dev kit - $500\n Unlimited user license system with dev kit - $550\n\nThe above systems include all of the floppies or tapes and\ninstalation manuals. They are new and have never been\ninstalled before. Market value for the above systems is\nabout $1500 US! If you are interested, please contact me\nat 416-233-6038.\n\n\n", "Hi...I need some info on video card. I am looking a video card that can\ndeliver a high quality picture. I need the card to display images (well\nfor advertising company btw), so it must be rich with colors and the speed\nmust be fast too.\n\nI am just wondering if somebody can advise me what to buy for such\napplication, and possible the address of the vendor.", "Really when you come down to it who cares. I just hope MS keeps doing\nwhat they do best getting usable productive software to the masses.\nThx Dave L\n\n\n", "I don't know about the specific problem mentioned in your\nmessage, but I definitely had SCSI problems between my\nQ700 and my venerable Jasmine Megadrive 10 cartridge\ndrives. My solution was to get Silverlining. None of\nthe loops that involved blind writes worked to the drives;\nin fact the only loop that worked was the \"Macintosh\nSoftware\" loop (whatever that means).", "Archive-name: x-faq/speedups\nLast-modified: 1993/4/15\n\n- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -\n\tHOW TO MAXIMIZE THE PERFORMANCE OF X -- monthly posting\n- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -\n\t Compiled by Art Mulder (art@cs.ualberta.ca)\n\n More RAM, Faster CPU's, More disk space, Faster Ethernet... These\n are the standard responses you hear when you ask how to improve the\n performance of your workstation.\n\n Well, more hardware isn't always an option, and I wonder if more\n hardware is always even a necessity.\n\n This \"FAQ\" list is a collection of suggestions and ideas from different\n people on the net on how you can the best possible performance from X\n Windows on your workstation, WITHOUT PURCHASING MORE HARDWARE.\n\n Performance is a highly subjective issue. The individual user must\n balance `speed' versus `features' in order to come to a personal\n decision. Therefore this document can be be expected to contain many\n subjective opinions in and amongst the objective facts.\n\n This document is specifically concerned with X. There are of course\n many other factors that can affect the performance of a workstation.\n However, they are outside the scope of this document.\n\n [ People seriously interested in the whole area of system\n performance, might want to look at the O'Reilly Nutshell Handbook\n \"System Performance Tuning\" by Mike Loukides. I'm about 25% of the\n way through reading it, and it looks like a well-written\n comprehensive treatment of system performance. I'm unaware of any\n other similar books. --ed.]\n\n-----------------\nTable of Contents\n-----------------\n 0. Introduction & Administrivia\n 1. What about the \"Other X FAQ\"?\n 2. Window Managers\n 3. The X Server\n Which Server?\n Locking the Server into RAM?\n Starting your Server\n Fonts\n About the Resources File\n! Define Your Display Properly\n 4. Clients\n A Better Clock for X\n A Better Terminal Emulator for X\n Tuning your client\n 5. Miscellaneous Suggestions\n Pretty Pictures\n A Quicker Mouse\n Programming Thoughts\n Say What!?\n 6. Other Sources of Information\n 7. Author & Notes\n \n! = changed since last issue.\n* = new since last issue.\n\n-----------------------------\nIntroduction & Administrivia\n-----------------------------\n\n This document is posted each month, on or around the 15th, to the\n Usenet news groups comp.windows.x, news.answers, and comp.answers.\n If you are reading a copy of this FAQ which is more than a few\n months old (see the \"Last-modified\" date above) you should probably\n locate the latest edition, since the information may be outdated.\n\n If you do not know how to get those newsgroups and/or your site does\n not receive them and/or this article has already expired, you can\n retrieve this FAQ from an archive site.\n\n There exist several usenet FAQ archive sites. To find out more about\n them and how to access them, please see the \"Introduction to the\n news.answers newsgroup\" posting in news.answers.\n\n The main FAQ archive is at rtfm.mit.edu [18.172.1.27]. This document\n can be found there in /pub/usenet/news.answers/x-faq/speedups. If\n you do not have access to anonymous ftp, you can retrieve it by\n sending a mail message to mail-server@pit-manager.mit.edu with the\n command \"send usenet/news.answers/x-faq/speedups\" in the message body.\n\n-----------------------------\nWhat about the \"Other X FAQ\"?\n-----------------------------\n\n David B. Lewis (faq%craft@uunet.uu.net) maintains the informative and\n well written \"comp.windows.x Frequently Asked Questions\" document.\n Its focus is on general X information, while this FAQ concentrates\n on performance.\n\n The comp.windows.x FAQ does address the issue of speed, but only with\n regards to the X server. The gist of that topic seems to be:\n\t\"Use X11R5, it is faster than R4\".\n (Please see the X FAQ for complete details).\n\n---------------\nWindow Managers\n---------------\n\n There are a lot of window managers out there, with lots of different\n features and abilities. The choice of which to use is by necessity a\n balancing act between performance and useful features. At this\n point, most respondents have agreed upon \"twm\" as the best candidate\n for a speedy window manager. \n\n A couple of generic tricks you can try to soup up your window manger,\n is turning off unnecessary things like \"zooming\" and \"opaque move\".\n Also, if you lay out your windows in a tiled manner, you reduce the\n amount of cpu power spent in raising and lowering overlapping\n windows. Joe English (joe@trystero.art.com)\n\n I've found that a good font for tiling is 7x13 (aka:\n -misc-fixed-medium-r-normal--13-100-100-100-c-70-iso8859-1 ). It is\n the biggest font I know of that I can use on my Sun (1152x900 screen)\n and still get two 80 column terminal windows side-by-side on the\n display with no overlap. Other font suggestions will be accepted.\n\n------------\nThe X Server\n------------\n\nWhich Server?\n- - - - - - -\n Make sure that your server is a proper match for your hardware.\n If you have a monochrome monitor, use a monochrome X11 server.\n\n On my Monochrome Sun, I haven't noticed much difference between\n the Xsun (colour) server and XsunMono, however it was pointed out to\n me that XsunMono is about 800k smaller and therefore should contribute\n to less paging. \n [ thanks to: Jonny Farringdon (j.farringdon@psychol.ucl.ac.uk),\n Michael Salmon (Michael.Salmon@eos.ericsson.se) ]\n\n How your server was compiled can also make a difference. Jeff Law\n (law@schirf.cs.utah.edu) advises us that on a Sun system, X should be\n compiled with gcc (version 2.*) or with the unbundled Sun compiler.\n You can expect to get \"*very* large speedups in the server\" by not\n using the bundled SunOS compiler. I assume that similar results\n would occur if you used one of the other high-quality commercial\n compilers on the market.\n\nLocking the Server into RAM?\n- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -\n Has anyone tried hacking the X server so that it is locked into RAM and\n does not get paged? eg: via a call to plock(). Does this help\n performance at all? I've had one inquiry on this topic, and a few\n pointers to the plock() function call, but no hard evidence from someone\n who's tried it. I am not in a position to give it a try. \n\t\t\t [thanks to: Eric C Claeys (ecc@eperm.att.com),\n\t\t\t\t Danny Backx (db@sunbim.be),\n\t\t\t\t Juan D. Martin (juando@cnm.us.es) ]\nStarting your Server\n- - - - - - - - - - -\n Joe English (joe@trystero.art.com) :\n If you start up a lot of clients in your .xsession or whatever, sleep\n for a second or two after launching each one. After I changed my\n .xclients script to do this, logging in actually took *less* time...\n we have a heavily loaded system without much core, though.\n\n This sounds crazy, but I have confirmed that it works! \n\n Warner Losh (imp@Solbourne.COM) provided me with a good explanation of\n why this works, which I have summarized here:\n\n When you start up an X server it takes a huge amount of time to\n start accepting connections. A lot of initialization is done by\n the server when it starts. This process touches a large number of\n pages. Any other process running at the same time would fight the\n server for use of the CPU, and more importantly, memory. If you\n put a sleep in there, you give the Server a chance to get itself\n sorted out before the clients start up.\n\n Similarly, there is also a lot of initialization whenever an X\n client program starts: toolkits registering widgets, resources\n being fetched, programs initializing state and \"databases\" and so\n forth. All this activity is typically memory intensive. Once this\n initialization is done (\"The process has reached a steady state\"),\n the memory usage typically settles down to using only a few pages.\n By using sleeps to stagger the launching of your clients in your\n .Xinitrc , you avoid them fighting each other for your\n workstation's limited resources\n\n This is most definitely a \"Your Mileage May Vary\" situation, as there\n are so many variables to be considered: available RAM, local swap\n space, load average, number of users on your system, which clients\n you are starting, etc.\n\n Currently in my .xinitrc I have a situation like:\n\t(sleep 1; exec xclock ) &\n\t(sleep 1; exec xbiff ) &\n\t(sleep 1; exec xterm ) &\n\t(sleep 1; exec xterm ) &\n\n I've experimented with:\n\t(sleep 1; exec xclock ) &\n\t(sleep 2; exec xbiff ) &\n\t(sleep 3; exec xterm ) &\n\t(sleep 4; exec xterm ) &\n\n I've even tried:\n\t(sleep 2; exec start_X_clients_script ) &\n and then in start_X_clients_script I had:\n\t(sleep 1; exec xclock ) &\n\t(sleep 1; exec xbiff ) &\n\t(sleep 1; exec xterm ) &\n\t(sleep 1; exec xterm ) &\n\n [ The idea with this last one was to make sure that xinit had\n completely finished processing my .xinitrc, and had settled down\n into a \"steady state\" before the sleep expired and all my clients\n were launched. ]\n\n All of these yielded fairly comparable results, and so I just stuck with\n my current setup, for its simplicity. You will probably have to\n experiment a bit to find a setup which suits you.\n\nFonts\n- - -\n Loading fonts takes time and RAM. If you minimize the number of fonts\n your applications use, you'll get speed increases in load-up time.\n\n One simple strategy is to choose a small number of fonts (one small, one\n large, one roman, whatever suits you) and configure all your clients -- or\n at least all your heavily used clients -- to use only those few fonts.\n Client programs should start up quicker if their font is already loaded\n into the server. This will also conserve server resources, since fewer\n fonts will be loaded by the server.\n\t\t\t [ Farrell McKay (fbm@ptcburp.ptcbu.oz.au),\n\t\t\t Joe English (joe@trystero.art.com) ]\n\n eg: My main xterm font is 7x13, so I also have twm set up to use 7x13\n in all it's menus and icons etc. Twm's default font is 8x13. Since\n I don't normally use 8x13, I've eliminated one font from my server.\n\n Oliver Jones (oj@roadrunner.pictel.com):\n Keep fonts local to the workstation, rather than loading them over nfs.\n If you will make extensive use of R5 scalable fonts, use a font server.\n\nAbout the Resources File\n- - - - - - - - - - - - -\n\n Keep your .Xresources / .Xdefaults file small. Saves RAM and saves\n on server startup time. Joe English (joe@trystero.art.com)\n\n One suggestion:\n\n In your .Xdefaults (.Xresources) file, try putting only the minimum\n number of resources that you want to have available to all of your\n applications. For example: *reverseVideo: true\n\n Then, separate your resources into individual client-specific\n resource files. For example: $HOME/lib/app-defaults. In your\n .login file set the environment variable XUSERFILESEARCHPATH:\n\n\tsetenv XUSERFILESEARCHPATH $HOME/lib/app-defaults/%N\n\n [ The \"comp.windows.x Frequently Asked Questions\" FAQ contains\n an excellent explanation of how these environment variables work.\n --ed.]\n\n So, when xterm launches, it loads its resources from\n .../app-defaults/XTerm. Xdvi finds them in .../app-defaults/XDvi,\n and so on and so forth. Note that not all clients follow the same\n XXxxx resource-file naming pattern. You can check in your system\n app-defaults directory (often: /usr/X11R5/lib/X11/app-defaults/) to\n find the proper name, and then name your personal resource files\n with the same name.\n\n This is all documented in the Xt Specification (pg 125 & 666).\n\t\t [Thanks to: Kevin Samborn (samborn@mtkgc.com),\n\t\t Michael Urban (urban@cobra.jpl.nasa.gov),\n\t\t and Mike Long (mikel@ee.cornell.edu).\n\t Kevin is willing mail his setup files to inquirers.]\n\n This method of organizing your personal resources has the following\n benefits:\n\n - Easier to maintain / more usable.\n\n - Fewer resources are stored in the X server in the RESOURCE_MANAGER\n property. As a side benefit your server may start fractionally\n quicker, since it doesn`t have to load all your resources.\n\n - Applications only process their own resources, never have to sort \n through all of your resources to find the ones that affect them.\n\n It also has drawbacks:\n\n - the application that you are interested in has to load an\n additional file every time it starts up. This doesn't seem to\n make that much of a performance difference, and you might\n consider this a huge boon to usability. If you are modifying an\n application's resource database, you just need to re-run the\n application without having to \"xrdb\" again.\n\n - xrdb will by default run your .Xdefaults file through cpp. When\n your resources are split out into multiple resource files and\n then loaded by the individual client programs, they will not.\n WATCH OUT FOR THIS!!\n\n I had C style comments in my .Xdefaults file, which cpp stripped\n out. When I switched to this method of distributed resource\n files I spent several frustrating days trying to figure out why\n my clients were not finding their resources. Xt did *NOT*\n provide any error message when it encountered the C style\n comments in the resource files, it simply, silently, aborted\n processing the resource file.\n\n The loss of preprocessing (which can be very handy, e.g. ``#ifdef\n COLOR'' ...) is enough to cause some people to dismiss this\n method of resource management.\n\n - You may also run into some clients which break the rules. For\n example, neither Emacs (18.58.3) nor Xvt (1.0) will find their\n resources if they are anywhere other than in .Xdefaults.\n\n - when starting up a client on a machine that does not share files\n with the machine where your resources are stored, your client\n will not find its resources. Loading all your resources into the\n server will guarantee that all of your clients will always find\n their resources. Casey Leedom (casey@gauss.llnl.gov)\n\n A possible compromise suggestion that I have (and am planning on trying)\n is to put resources for all my heavily used clients (eg: xterm) into my\n .Xdefaults file, and to use the \"separate resources files\" method for\n clients that I seldom use.\n\nDefine Your Display Properly\n- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -\n\n Client programs are often executed on the same machine as the server. In\n that situation, rather than setting your DISPLAY environment variable to \n \":0.0\", where is the name of your workstation, you\n should set your DISPLAY variable to \"unix:0.0\" or \":0.0\". By doing this\n you access optimized routines that know that the server is on the same\n machine and use a shared memory method of transferring requests.\n\t\t\t[thanks to Patrick J Horgan (pjh70@ras.amdahl.com)]\n\n See the _DISPLAY NAMES_ section of the X(1) man page for further\n explanation of how to properly set your display name.\n\n \"I don't think it's stock MIT, but (at least) Data General and HP have\n libraries that are smart enough to use local communication even when\n the DISPLAY isn't set specially.\"\n\t\t\t Rob Sartin (88opensi!sartin@uunet.UU.NET)\n\n [Jody Goldberg (jody@algorithmics.com) sent me an Xlib patch to change\n stock R5 to use local communication even if DISPLAY is not properly set.\n I don't want to get in the business of distributing or trying to juggle\n non-MIT patches and so have elected not to include it here. Hopefully MIT\n will apply this minor (~8 lines) patch themselves. In the meantime, if\n you want to try it yourself, email Jody. --ed.]\n\n-------\nClients\n-------\n\n If you only have a few megabytes of Ram then you should think\n carefully about the number of programs you are running. Think also\n about the _kind_ of programs you are running. For example: Is there\n a smaller clock program than xclock?\n\n Unfortunately, I haven't really noticed that programs advertise how large\n they are, so the onus is on us to do the research and spread the word.\n\n [ Suggestions on better alternatives to the some of the standard clients\n (eg: Xclock, Xterm, Xbiff) are welcome. --ed.]\n\n I've received some contradictory advice from people, on the subject\n of X client programs. Some advocate the use of programs that are\n strictly Xlib based, since Xt, Xaw and other toolkits are rather\n large. Others warn us that other applications which you are using\n may have already loaded up one or more of these shared libraries. In\n this case, using a non-Xt (for example) client program may actually\n _increase_ the amount of RAM consumed.\n\n The upshot of all this seems to be: Don't mix toolkits. That is, try\n and use just Athena clients, or just Xview clients (or just Motif\n clients, etc). If you use more than one, then you're dragging in\n more than one toolkit library.\n\n Know your environment, and think carefully about which client\n programs would work best together in that environment.\n\n\t\t [Thanks to: Rob Sartin (88opensi!sartin@uunet.UU.NET),\n Duncan Sinclair (sinclair@dcs.gla.ac.uk | sinclair@uk.ac.gla.dcs) ]\n\nA Better Clock for X\n- - - - - - - - - - -\n\n1) xcuckoo\n suggested by: Duncan Sinclair (sinclair@dcs.gla.ac.uk)\n available: on export.lcs.mit.edu\n\n Xcuckoo displays a clock in the title bar of *another* program.\n Saves screen real estate.\n\n2) mclock\n suggested by: der Mouse (mouse@Lightning.McRCIM.McGill.EDU)\n available: larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (132.206.1.1) in /X/mclock.shar\n\n Non Xt-based. Extensively configurable. it can be made to look\n very much like MIT oclock, or mostly like xclock purely by changing\n resources.\n\n Of course, the ultimate clock --- one that consumes no resources, and \n takes up no screen real estate --- is the one that hangs on your wall.\n :-) \n\nA Better Terminal Emulator for X\n- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -\n\n From the README file distributed with xterm:\n\n +-----\n |\t\t Abandon All Hope, Ye Who Enter Here\n |\n | This is undoubtedly the most ugly program in the distribution.\n | ...\n +-----\n\n Ugly maybe, but at my site it's still the most used. I suspect that\n xterm is one of the most used clients at many, if not most sites.\n Laziness? Isn't there a better terminal emulator available? See below.\n\n If you must use xterm, you can try reducing the number of saveLines\n to reduce memory usage. [ Oliver Jones (oj@roadrunner.pictel.com),\n\t\t Jonny Farringdon (j.farringdon@psychol.ucl.ac.uk) ]\n\n1) Xvt\n suggested by: Richard Hesketh (rlh2@ukc.ac.uk) :\n available: export.lcs.mit.edu in /contrib/xvt-1.0.tar.Z\n\n \"...if you don't need all the esoteric features of xterm, then get\n hold of xvt ... it was written here just to save swap space as\n xterm is rather a hog! \"\n\n This was written as a partial 'clone' of xterm. You don't have to\n rename your resources, as xvt pretends to be XTerm. In it's current\n version, you cannot bind keys as you can in xterm. I've heard that\n there are versions of xvt with this feature, but I've not found any\n yet.\n\n UPDATE (March 1993): I recently had a few email conversations with\n Brian Warkentin (brian.warkentine@eng.sun.com) regarding xvt. He\n questions whether xvt really is at all faster than xterm. For\n instance, xvt may initialize slightly faster, but compare scrolling\n speed (try this quickie benchmark: /bin/time dd if=/etc/termcap\n bs=40) and see which program can scroll faster. Also, while xterm\n may be slightly larger in RAM requirements (We don't have any hard\n numbers here, does anyone else?) shared libraries and shared text\n segments mean that xterm's paging requirements are not that major.\n\n As an experiment, he ripped out all the tek stuff from xterm, but it\n made little difference, since if you never use it, it never gets\n brought into memory.\n\n So here we stand with some conflicting reports on the validity of\n xvt over xterm. In summary? Caveat Emptor, your mileage may vary.\n If you can provide some hard data, I'd like to see it.\n Specifically: How much RAM each occupies, how much swap each needs,\n relative speed of each\n\n2) mterm\n suggested by: der Mouse (mouse@Lightning.McRCIM.McGill.EDU)\n available: larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (132.206.1.1) in\n /X/mterm.src/mterm.ball-o-wax.\n\n \"I also have my own terminal emulator. Its major lack is\n scrollback, but some people like it anyway.\"\n\n\nTuning your client\n- - - - - - - - - -\n\n Suggestions on how you can tune your client programs to work faster.\n\n From Scott Barman (scott@asd.com) comes a suggestion regarding Motif\n Text Field Widgets:\n\n I noticed that during data entry into Motif text field widgets, I\n was getting a slight lag in response to some keystrokes,\n particularly the initial one in the field. Examining the what was\n going on with xscope I found it. It seems that when the resource\n XmNblinkRate is non-zero and the focus is on a text field widget\n (or even just a text widget) the I-beam cursor will blink.\n Every time the cursor appears or disappears in those widgets, the\n widget code is making a request to the server (CopyArea). The user\n can stop this by setting the resource XmNblinkRate to 0. It is not\n noticeable on a 40MHz SPARC, but it does make a little difference\n on a [slower system].\n\n This specific suggestion can probably be applied in general to lots\n of areas. Consider your heavily used clients, are there any minor\n embellishments that can be turned off and thereby save on Server\n requests?\n\n-------------------------\nMiscellaneous Suggestions\n-------------------------\n\nPretty Pictures\n- - - - - - - -\n Don't use large bitmaps (GIF's, etc) as root window backgrounds.\n\n - The more complicated your root window bitmap, the slower the server\n is at redrawing your screen when you reposition windows (or redraw, etc)\n\n - These take up RAM, and CPU power. I work on a Sun SPARC and I'm\n conscious of performance issues, I can't comprehend it when I see\n people with a 4mb Sun 3/60 running xphoon as their root window.\n\n I'll let someone else figure out how much RAM would be occupied by\n having a full screen root image on a colour workstation.\n\n - If you're anything like me, you need all the screen real estate\n that you can get for clients, and so rarely see the root window anyway.\n\n\t\t [ Thanks to Qiang Alex Zhao (azhao@cs.arizona.edu) \n\t\t\tfor reminding me of this one. --ed.]\n\nA Quicker Mouse\n- - - - - - - -\n Using xset, you can adjust how fast your pointer moves on the screen\n when you move your mouse. I use \"xset m 3 10\" in my .xinitrc file,\n which lets me send my pointer across the screen with just a flick of\n the wrist. See the xset man page for further ideas and information.\n\n Hint: sometimes you may want to *slow down* your mouse tracking for\n fine work. To cover my options, I have placed a number of different\n mouse setting commands into a menu in my window manager. \n\n e.g. (for twm) :\n menu \"mouse settings\" {\n \"Mouse Settings:\"\t\t\tf.title\n\t\" Very Fast\"\t\t\t\t! \"xset m 7 10 &\"\n\t\" Normal (Fast)\"\t\t\t! \"xset m 3 10 &\"\n\t\" System Default (Un-Accelerated)\"\t! \"xset m default &\"\n\t\" Glacial\"\t\t\t\t! \"xset m 0 10 &\"\n }\n\nProgramming Thoughts\n- - - - - - - - - - -\n Joe English (joe@trystero.art.com) :\n To speed up applications that you're developing, there are tons of\n things you can do. Some that stick out:\n\n - For Motif programs, don't set XmFontList resources for individual\n buttons, labels, lists, et. al.; use the defaultFontList or\n labelFontList or whatever resource of the highest-level manager\n widget. Again, stick to as few fonts as possible.\n\n - Better yet, don't use Motif at all. It's an absolute pig.\n\n - Don't create and destroy widgets on the fly. Try to reuse them.\n (This will avoid many problems with buggy toolkits, too.)\n\n - Use a line width of 0 in GCs. On some servers this makes a HUGE\n difference.\n\n - Compress and collapse multiple Expose events. This can make the\n difference between a fast application and a completely unusable\n one.\n\n Francois Staes (frans@kiwi.uia.ac.be) :\n Just a small remark: I once heard that using a better malloc\n function would greatly increase performance of Xt based\n applications since they use malloc heavily. They suggested trying\n out the GNUY malloc, but I didn't find the time yet. I did some\n tests on small programs just doing malloc and free, and the\n differences were indeed very noticeable ( somewhat 5 times faster)\n\n [ Any confirmation on this from anyone? --ed.]\n\n Andre' Beck (Andre_Beck@IRS.Inf.TU-Dresden.de) :\n\n - Unnecessary NoExpose Events.\n\n Most people use XCopyArea/XCopyPlane as fastest blit routines, but\n they forget to reset graphics_exposures in the GC used for the\n blits. This will cause a NoExpose Event every blit, that, in most\n cases, only puts load onto the connection and forces the client to\n run through it's event-loop again and again.\n\n - Thousands of XChangeGC requests.\n\n This \"Gfx Context Switching\" is also seen in most handcoded X-Apps,\n where only one or few GCs are created and then heavily changed\n again and again. Xt uses a definitely better mechanism, by caching\n and sharing a lot of GCs with all needed parameters. This will\n remove the load of subsequent XChangeGC requests from the\n connection (by moving it toward the client startup phase).\n\nSay What!?\n- - - - - - \n Some contributors proposed ideas that seem right off the wall at first:\n\n David B. Lewis (by day: dbl@osf.org, by night: david%craft@uunet.uu.net) :\n How about this: swap displays with someone else. Run all your programs\n on the other machine and display locally; the other user runs off your\n machine onto the other display. Goal: reduce context switches in the\n same operation between client and server.\n\n I'm not in a situation where I can easily try this, but I have received\n the following confirmation...\n\n Michael Salmon (Michael.Salmon@eos.ericsson.se):\n I regularly run programs on other machines and I notice a big\n difference. I try to run on a machine where I will reduce net usage\n and usually with nice to reduce the impact of my intrusion. This\n helps a lot on my poor little SS1+ with only 16 MB, it was\n essential when I only had 8 MB.\n\n Casey Leedom (casey@gauss.llnl.gov) :\n [The X11 Server and the client are] competing for the same CPU as\n your server when you run it on the same machine. Not really a\n major problem, except that the X11 client and the server are in\n absolute synchronicity and are context thrashing.\n\n Timothy H Panton (thp@westhawk.uucp) :\n Firstly it relies on the fact that most CPU's are mostly idle, X's\n cpu usage is bursty. so the chances of you and your teammate\n doing something cpu-intensive at the same time is small. If they\n are not then you get twice the cpu+memory available for your\n action.\n\n The second factor is that context switches are expensive, using 2\n cpu's halves them, you pay a price due to the overhead of going\n over the network, but this is offset in most cases by the improved\n buffering of a network (typically 20k vs 4k for a pipe), allowing\n even fewer context switches.\n\n----------------------------\nOther Sources of Information\n----------------------------\n\n Volume 8 in O'Reilly's X Window System Series, ``X Window System\n Administrator's Guide'' is a book all X administrator's should read.\n\n Adrian Nye (adrian@ora.com):\n A lot more tips on performance are in the paper \"Improving X\n Application Performance\" by Chris D. Peterson and Sharon Chang, in\n Issue 3 of The X Resource.\n\n An earlier version of this paper appeared in the Xhibition 1992\n conference proceedings.\n\n This paper is absolutely essential reading for X programmers.\n\n--------------\nAuthor & Notes\n--------------\n This list is currently maintained by Art Mulder (art@cs.ualberta.ca)\n\n Suggestions, corrections, or submission for inclusion in this list\n are gladly accepted. Layout suggestions and comments (spelling\n mistak's too! :-) are also welcome.\n\n Currently I have listed all contributors of the various comments and\n suggestions. If you do not want to be credited, please tell me.\n\n speedup-x-faq is copyright (c) 1993 by Arthur E. Mulder\n\n You may copy this document in whole or in part as long as you don't\n try to make money off it, or pretend that you wrote it.\n\n- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -", "I hooked up an old 40meg external mac hardrive to a Powerbook 230. I \nreformatted the drive, copied all the files from the powerbook except the\nsystemfolder, deleted the files from the powerbook (my biggest error, sigh)\nand then rebooted the whole set up and... chimes of death.\nI get the following sad mac error, \n00000F\n000003\nI ran Norton and it claims its a bad SCSI driver and suggests replaceing it.\nI used Apples Disk Tools but I couldn't update the hardrives SCSI driver\nas it claimed it was in use, but I couldn't even mount the thing (though\nI could see it when checking the SCSI bus, after turning it on after booting\nmy machine first).\n\nWhat does that error above refer to? Am I on the right track? Is there\nanything I can do short of intialising the drive, since I need the data\non there!", "Has anyone taken a look at the new ViewSonic 17? They claim 1280x1024 at 76Hz.\nHow does it compare with the T560i in terms of price, and quality of display?\n", "\nI expect what is going on here is that your colormap is full and, when the new application starts up, it cannot add the colors that it needs to the colormap.\nIt therefore has to pick and choose from the existing colors. This makes it look\nugly until it's window gets priority. Then Macx changes the colormap so that\nthe selected app is getting the exact colors it wanted, but now other applications\nare having to make do with it's colormap.\n\nThis is a problem with all color X servers (or at least all color Xservers I have\nseen) when the demands of the applications exceed the size of the colormap.\nMy solution is usually to (1) avoid colormap-greedy apps and (2) display\napplications where color is just icing on the cake in monochrome mode rather\nthan in color (if this is an option for the application).\n\n - Doug Shaker\n\tvoice:\t415/572-0200\n\tfax:\t415/572-1300\n\temail:\tdshaker@qualix.com\n\tmail:\tQualix Group\n\t\t1900 S. Norfolk St., #224\n\t\tSan Mateo, CA 94403", "\n\nRumor has it that a guy at Dell Computer had his Miata totalled, so that would \nbe about $10k.\n\n\n--", "This seems to be a simple problem but I just cannot solve it.\nI wrote a C program to draw some polygons on the screen, and I want to \nprint it on my printer. So, I press \"print-screen\" on the keyboard.\nThe problem is the printer just print out some ASCII characters.\nIs there any other way to print the screen without using \"print-screen\"????\nPlease help!\n", "Where can I buy blinking LEDs besides radio shack? \n\n\n * Does anyone sell blinking LEDs with variable flash rate? (by voltage\n I guess) If so, what hertz (pulse) rate are they adjustable or set to?\n\n I'd like blinking LEDs that can be set for approx 5 hz, 10 hz, \n 15 hz, or 20 hz. Something like that... I'm interested in what's\n out there for flash rates. I like the idea of LEDs with flasher \n circuits already in them. I hate soldering ICs in general. Guess I\n don't have a hell of a lot of patience. \n\n\n Thanks,", "Hi,\n\n I've just replaced my existing DTC SCSI controller with an Adaptec 1542B,\nand am now having trouble restoring from a Jumbo 250 tape drive.\n\n I had no trouble installing the Adaptec and DOS recognises both the SCSI\ndrive and an existing IDE drive - however when I went to restore the backups\nfrom the Jumbo tape I found that it was extremely slow (estimated time 3 mins\nactual time 15 min!) I have no trouble restoring from the same tape to the IDE\ndrive.\n\n I seem to remember reading that some settings had to be changed to \nenable the Jumbo drive and the Adaptec to work together but I can't find any\nmention of it in the manuals.\n\n My system config is:\n i486DX/33 4Mb \n Adaptec 1542B running 180Mb Fujitsu SCSI\n IDE Controller running 200Mb IDE\n Jumbo 250 running off floppy controller on IDE\n\n Any help would be appreciated \n\n Thanks,\n\n Ron. (ronaldm@extro.ucc.su.oz.au)\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nRon Mastus\t\t \t\t ronaldm@extro.ucc.su.oz.au\n \t\t\t\t\t\t 41 Mariposa Rd\nPhone +61 2 ???-???? (work)\t\t Bilgola Plateau 2107\n +61 2 918-8152 (home)\t\t\t Australia\n\n-- ", "\n\n\nDynamic RAM is not based on flip-flops; there's basically a single\ntransistor and capacitor to store each bit! Static RAM is based on\nflip-flops, and is much more expensive and much less dense. And\nneither has any parts that \"move\", if electrons and thermal expansion\nare ignored...\n\n\nChris\n", "Hi, anyone have the latest drivers for the Actix Graphics Accelerator Card? \n(32 plus) The one I have (version 1.21) seem to have a lot of problems. \nI believe the latest version is 1.3 and would someone please \nupload it to some ftp site so that I can download it. \n\nThanks \n\n\n-- \n\n\nDaniel Y.H. Wong\t\t\t\t\tUofT:(416)978-1659\nwongda@picton.eecg.toronto.edu\t\t\t\tElectrical Engineering", "GT> From: gary@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Gary Taylor)\nGT> Hi, We are trying to develop a image reconstruction simulation for the skull\n\nYou could do high resolution CT (computed tomographic) scanning of\nthe skull. Many CT scanners have an algorithm to do 3-D\nreconstructions in any plane you want. If you did reconstructions\nevery 2 degrees or so in all planes, you could use the resultant\nimages to create user-controlled animation.", "Could someone please tell me what the dip switches on the\nback of the AST Hot Shot 286 accellerator card do? I\nrecently acquired the card and did not get any docs.\n\nany information will be appreciated.\n-Rob\n-- \nRobert M. Bultman |\nSpeed Scientific School |\nUniversity of Louisville |\nInternet: rmbult01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu |", "Does anybody have any idea where I could find a program that can\nconvert a .GIF image into a .BMP image suitable for a Windows \nwallpaper (i.e. 256 colors). Hopefully there's something out there\nI can get from an ftp site somewhere...\n\nThanks in advance...", "OK will some one out there tell me why / how DOS 5\ncan read (I havn't tried writing in case it breaks something)\nthe Win/NT NTFS file system.\nI thought NTFS was supposed to be better than the FAT system", "The most ridiculous example of VR-exploitation I've seen so far is the\n\"Virtual Reality Clothing Company\" which recently opened up in Vancouver. As\nfar as I can tell it's just another \"chic\" clothes spot. Although it would be\ninteresting if they were selling \"virtual clothing\"....\n\nE-mail me if you want me to dig up their phone # and you can probably get\nsome promotional lit.", "This is posted for a friend who doesn't have net access...you can send replies\nto me, but I'll be out of my office all next week, so don't expect a response\nuntil at least 4/27!\n\nFor sale: Contax camera system\n\nIncludes: Contax 139 quartz SLR body\n\t 50mm f1.7 Zeiss (!) Planna Lens\n\t 135mm f2.8 Yashica Lens\n\t Medium-sized hard case\n\nAll items are in exceptional condition. \n\nAsking price: $175 for all items listed above. The seller is attempting to\nsell the lot as a set, but you can negotiate that with him.\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDick Joltes\t\t\t\t\t\tjoltes@husc.harvard.edu\nHardware & Networking Manager, Computer Services \tjoltes@husc.bitnet \nHarvard University Science Center", "The following cassette tapes are for sale. $3.00 each... $2.50 each\nfor multiple orders, shipping included. Trades can be arranged.\nSome of the cases are somewhat worn, with a few cracks, but the tapes\nare all in good condition and sound fine.\n\nE-mail to the posting account. Thanks.\n\nThe Who\n\t-Who's Greatest Hits\nBachman Turner Overdrive\n\t-Best of BTO (so far)\nVan Halen\n\t-5150\n\t-OU812\nThe Doors\n\t-The Best of the Doors\nThe Cars\n\t-Door to Door\n\t-The Cars Greatest Hits\nPhil Collins\n\t-Face Value\n\t-No Jacket Required\nTears for Fears\n\t-Songs From the Big Chair", "I need to write an application which does annotation notes\non existing documents. The annotation could be done several\ntimes by different people. The idea is something like having\nseveral acetate transparencies stacked on top of each other\nso that the user can see through all of them. I've seen\nsomething like this being done by the oclock client.\nCould someone please tell me how to do it in Xt?\nThank you very much.\n", "The following comics are for auction. The highest bid takes them! New\nstuff added! (Oooooh! The Mr. T. premium comic!)\n\nTITLE Minimum/Current \n--------------------------------------------------------------\nAlpha Flight 51 (Jim Lee's first work at Marvel)\t$ 5.00\n\nAliens 1 (1st app Aliens in comics, 1st prnt, May 1988)\t$20.00/KrisM./THREE\n\nAmazing Spider-Man 136 (Intro new Green Goblin) $20.00\n\nAmazing Spider-Man 238 (1st appearance Hobgoblin)\t$50.00\n\nArcher and Armstrong 1 (Frank Miller/Smith/Layton)\t$ 7.50\n\nAvengers 263 (1st appearance X-factor) $ 3.50\n\nBloodshot 1 (Chromium cover, BWSmith Cover/Poster)\t$ 5.00/SamE/ONCE\n\nDaredevil 158 (Frank Miller art begins) $35.00\n\nDark Horse Presents 1 (1st app Concrete, 1st printing)\t$ 7.50 \n\nDetective 657 (Azrael appears, Intro Cypher)\t\t$ 5.00\n\nHarbinger 10 (1st appearance H.A.R.D. Corps)\t\t$ 7.00/B.Matthey/SOLD\n\nH.A.R.D. Corps 1 \t\t\t\t\t$ 5.00\n\nIncredible Hulk 324 (1st app Grey Hulk since #1 1962)\t$ 7.00\n\nIncredible Hulk 330 (1st McFarlane issue)\t\t$15.00\n\nIncredible Hulk 331 (Grey Hulk series begins)\t\t$11.00\n\nIncredible Hulk 367 (1st Dale Keown art in Hulk) $15.00\n\nIncredible Hulk 377 (1st all new hulk, 1st prnt, Keown) $15.00\n\nMarvel Comics Presents 1 (Wolverine, Silver Surfer) $ 7.50\n\nMaxx Limited Ashcan (4000 copies exist, blue cover)\t$33.50/BrentB/THREE\n\nMr T. #1 (Signed Advance copy, 10,000 exist)\t\t$10.00\n\nNew Mutants 86 (McFarlane cover, 1st app Cable - cameo)\t$10.00\n\nNew Mutants 100 (1st app X-Force) $ 5.00\n\nNew Mutants Annual 5 (1st Liefeld art on New Mutants)\t$10.00\n\nOmega Men 3 (1st appearance Lobo) $ 7.50\n\nOmega Men 10 (1st full Lobo story) $ 7.50\n\nPower Man & Iron Fist 78 (3rd appearance Sabretooth) $20.00\n\nPower Man & Iron Fist 84 (4th appearance Sabretooth) $15.00\n\nSimpsons Comics and Stories 1 (Polybagged special ed.)\t$ 7.50\n\nSpectacular Spider-Man 147 (1st app New Hobgoblin) $12.50\n\nStar Trek the Next Generation 1 (Feb 1988, DC mini) $ 7.50\n\nStar Trek the Next Generation 1 (Oct 1989, DC comics) $ 7.50\n\nTrianglehead #1 (Special limited edition, autogrphed)\t$ 5.00\n\nWeb of Spider-Man 29 (Hobgoblin, Wolverine appear) $10.00 \n\nWeb of Spider-Man 30 (Origin Rose, Hobgoblin appears) $ 7.50\n\nWolverine 10 (Before claws, 1st battle with Sabretooth)\t$15.00\n\nWolverine 41 (Sabretooth claims to be Wolverine's dad)\t$ 5.00\n\nWolverine 42 (Sabretooth proven not to be his dad)\t$ 3.50\n\nWolverine 43 (Sabretooth/Wolverine saga concludes)\t$ 3.00\n\nWolverine 1 (1982 mini-series, Miller art)\t\t$20.00\n\nWonder Woman 267 (Return of Animal Man) $12.50\n\nX-Force 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, X-Force card) $20.00\n\nX-Force 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, Shatterstar card) $10.00\n\nX-Force 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, Deadpool card) $10.00\n\nX-Force 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, Sunspot/Gideon) $10.00\n\n\nAll comics are in near mint to mint condition, are bagged in shiny \npolypropylene bags, and backed with white acid free boards. Shipping is\n$1.50 for one book, $3.00 for more than one book, or free if you order \na large enough amount of stuff. I am willing to haggle.\n\nI have thousands and thousands of other comics, so please let me know what \nyou've been looking for, and maybe I can help. Some titles I have posted\nhere don't list every issue I have of that title, I tried to save space.", "Imake support for xmosaic\n\t=========================\n\nAlthough xmosaic is a great program in general, it unfortunately comes\nwithout Imake support. So I created one. Until Marc Andreessen finds the\ntime to incorporate it in an official xmosaic release, you can easily do it\nyourself. Use anonymous FTP to get\n\n\tftp.germany.eu.net:/pub/X11/misc/xmosaic.Imake.tar.z\n\nThe file's size is 3200 Byte. You will need gzip to unpack it. Have fun!\n\n-- \n Dipl.-Inform. Rainer Klute I R B : immer richtig beraten\n Univ. Dortmund, IRB\n Postfach 500500 |)|/ Tel.: +49 231 755-4663\nD-W4600 Dortmund 50 |\\|\\ Fax : +49 231 755-2386", "Archive-name: x-faq/part1\nLast-modified: 1993/04/04\n\nThis article and several following contain the answers to some Frequently Asked \nQuestions (FAQ) often seen in comp.windows.x. It is posted to help reduce \nvolume in this newsgroup and to provide hard-to-find information of general \ninterest.\n\n\t\tPlease redistribute this article!\n\nThis article includes answers to the following questions, which are loosely\ngrouped into categories. Questions marked with a + indicate questions new to \nthis issue; those with significant changes of content since the last issue are \nmarked by !:\n\n 0) TOPIC: BASIC INFORMATION SOURCES AND DEFINITIONS\n 1)! What books and articles on X are good for beginners?\n 2)! What courses on X and various X toolkits are available?\n 3)! What conferences on X are coming up?\n 4) What X-related public mailing lists are available?\n 5) How can I meet other X developers? \n 6) What related FAQs are available?\n 7) How do I ask a net-question so as to maximize helpful responses?\n 8) What publications discussing X are available?\n 9) What are these common abbreviations/acronyms?\n 10) What is the ICCCM? (How do I write X-friendly applications?)\n 11) What is the X Consortium, and how do I join?\n 12) Just what are OPEN LOOK and Motif?\n 13) Just what is OpenWindows?\n 14) Just what is DECWindows?\n 15) What is PEX?\n 16) What is \"low-bandwidth X\" (LBX)? XRemote? PPP? SLIP? CSLIP?\n 17) TOPIC: USING X IN DAY-TO-DAY LIFE\n 18)! What are all these different window managers?\n 19) Why does my X session exit when I kill my window manager (sic)?\n 20) Can I save the state of my X session, like toolplaces does?\n 21) How do I use another window manager with DEC's session manager?\n 22) How do I change the keyboard auto-repeat rate?\n 23) How do I remap the keys on my keyboard to produce a string?\n 24)! How do I make a screendump or print my application?\n 25) How do I make a color PostScript screendump of the X display?\n 26) How do I make a screendump including the X cursor?\n 27) How do I convert/view Mac/TIFF/GIF/Sun/PICT/img/FAX images in X?\n 28) How can I change the titlebar of my xterm window?\n 29) Where can I find the xterm control sequences?\n 30)- Why does the R3 xterm, et al, fail against the R4 server?\n 31) How can I use characters above ASCII 127 in xterm ?\n 32) Why are my xterm menus so small?\n 33) How can I print the current selection?\n 34) How does Xt use environment variables in loading resources?\n 35) How to I have the R4 xdm put a picture behind the log-in window?\n 36) Why isn't my PATH set when xdm runs my .xsession file?\n 37) How do I keep my $DISPLAY when I rlogin to another machine?\n 38) How can I design my own font?\n 39) Why does adding a font to the server not work (sic)?\n 40) How do I convert a \".snf\" font back to \".bdf\" font?\n 41) What is a general method of getting a font in usable format?\n 42) How do I use DECwindows fonts on my non-DECwindows server?\n 43) How do I add \".bdf\" fonts to my DECwindows server?\n 44)! How can I set backgroundPixmap in a defaults file? (What is XPM?)\n 45) Why can't I override translations? Only the first item works.\n 46) How can I have xclock or oclock show different timezones?\n 47) I have xmh, but it doesn't work. Where can I get MH?\n 48) Why am I suddenly unable to connect to my Sun X server?\n 49) Why don't the R5 PEX demos work on my mono screen?\n 50)! How do I get my Sun Type-[45] keyboard fully supported by Xsun?\n 51) How do I report bugs in X?\n 52) Why do I get \"Warning: Widget class version mismatch\"?\n 53) Where can I find a dictionary server for xwebster?\n 54) TOPIC: OBTAINING X AND RELATED SOFTWARE AND HARDWARE\n 55) Is X public-domain software?\n 56) How compatible are X11R3, R4, and R5? What changes are there?\n 57)! Where can I get X11R5 (source and/or binaries)?\n 58)! Where can I get patches to X11R5?\n 59) What is the xstuff mail-archive?\n 60)! Where can I get X11R4 (source and binaries)?\n 61) Where can I get OSF/Motif?\n 62) Does Motif work with X11R4? X11R5?\n 63) Where can I get toolkits implementing OPEN LOOK?\n 64)! Where can I get other X sources? (including R5 modifications)\n 65)! Where can I get interesting widgets?\n 66) Where can I get a good file-selector widget?\n 67) What widget is appropriate to use as a drawing canvas?\n 68) What is the current state of the world in X terminals?\n 69) Where can I get an X server with a touchscreen or lightpen?\n 70) Where can I get an X server on a PC (DOS or Unix)?\n 71) Where can I get an X server on a Macintosh running MacOS?\n 72) Where can I get X for the Amiga?\n 73) Where can I get a fast X server for a workstation?\n 74)! Where can I get a server for my high-end Sun graphics board?\n 75) Where can I get an \"X terminal\" server for my low-end Sun 3/50?\n 76) What terminal emulators other than xterm are available?\n 77)! Where can I get an X-based editor or word-processor?\n 78) Where can I get an X-based mailer?\n 79)! Where can I get an X-based paint/draw program?\n 80)! Where can I get an X-based plotting program?\n 81) Where can I get an X-based spreadsheet?\n 82) Where can I get X-based project-management software?\n 83) Where can I get an X-based PostScript previewer?\n 84) Where can I get an X-based GKS package?\n 85) Where can I get an X-based PEX package?\n 86) Where can I get an X-based TeX or DVI previewer?\n 87) Where can I get an X-based troff previewer?\n 88)! Where can I get a WYSIWYG interface builder?\n 89) Where can I find X tools callable from shell scripts?\n 90) Where can I get an X-based debugger?\n 91)! How can I \"tee\" an X program identically to several displays?\n 92) TOPIC: BUILDING THE X DISTRIBUTION [topic needs updating to R5]\n 93) What's a good source of information on configuring the X build?\n 94) Why doesn't my Sun with a cg6 work with R5?\n 95) Why doesn't my Sun with SunOS 4.1 know about _dlsym, etc.?\n 96) What is this strange problem building X clients on SunOS 4.1.2?\n 97) Why can't gcc compile X11R4 on my SPARC?\n 98) What are these I/O errors running X built with gcc?\n 99) What are these problems compiling X11R4 on the older Sun3?\n100) What are these problems compiling the X server on SunOS 4.1.1?\n101) What are these problems using R4 shared libraries on SunOS 4?\n102) Can OLIT programs run with R5 Xt? (_XtQString undefined)\n103) How do I get around the SunOS 4.1 security hole?\n104) How do I get around the frame-buffer security hole?\n105) TOPIC: BUILDING X PROGRAMS \n106) What is Imake?\n107) Where can I get imake?\n108) I have a program with an Imakefile but no Makefile. What to do?\n109) Why can't I link to the Xlib shape routines?\n110) What are these problems with \"_XtInherit not found\" on the Sun?\n111) Why can't I compile my R3 Xaw contrib programs under the new X?\n112) TOPIC: PROGRAMMING PROBLEMS AND PUZZLES\n113) Why doesn't my program get the keystrokes I select for (sic)?\n114) How do I figure out what window manager is running?\n115) Is there a skeleton X program available?\n116) Why does XtGetValues not work for me (sic)?\n117) Why don't XtConfigureWidget/XtResizeWidget/XtMoveWidget work?\n118) Why isn't there an XtReparentWidget call like XReparentWindow?\n119) I'm writing a widget and can't use a float as a resource value.\n120) Is this a memory leak in the X11R4 XtDestroyWidget()?!\n121) Are callbacks guaranteed to be called in the order registered?\n122) Why doesn't XtDestroyWidget() actually destroy the widget?\n123) How do I query the user synchronously using Xt?\n124) How do I determine the name of an existing widget?\n125) Why do I get a BadDrawable error drawing to XtWindow(widget)?\n126) Why do I get a BadMatch error when calling XGetImage?\n127) How can my application tell if it is being run under X?\n128) How do I make a \"busy cursor\" while my application is computing?\n129) How do I fork without hanging my parent X program?\n130) Can I make Xt or Xlib calls from a signal handler?\n131) What are these \"Xlib sequence lost\" errors?\n132) How can my Xt program handle socket, pipe, or file input?\n133) How do I simulate a button press/release event for a widget?\n134) Why doesn't anything appear when I run this simple program?\n135) What is the difference between a Screen and a screen?\n136) Can I use C++ with X11? Motif? XView?\n137) Where can I obtain alternate language bindings to X?\n138) Can XGetWindowAttributes get a window's background pixel/pixmap?\n139) How do I create a transparent window?\n140) Why doesn't GXxor produce mathematically-correct color values?\n141) Why does every color I allocate show up as black?\n142) Why can't my program get a standard colormap?\n143) Why does the pixmap I copy to the screen show up as garbage? \n144) How do I check whether a window ID is valid?\n145) Can I have two applications draw to the same window?\n146) Why can't my program work with tvtwm or swm?\n147) How do I keep a window from being resized by the user?\n148) How do I keep a window in the foreground at all times?\n149) How do I make text and bitmaps blink in X?\n150)+ How do I get a double-click in Xlib?\n151)! How do I render rotated text?\n152) What is the X Registry? (How do I reserve names?)\n\nIf you have suggestions or corrections for any of these answers or any \nadditional information, please send them directly to uunet!craft!faq;\nthe information will be included in the next revision (or possibly the one \nafter that; thanks for the many suggestions which haven't been incorporated \nyet). \n\nThis version of the FAQ is in the process of having R3 information replaced\nby R5 information.\n\nThis posting is intended to be distributed at approximately the beginning of \neach month. New versions are archived on export.lcs.mit.edu and are also \navailable from mail-server@pit-manager.mit.edu and archive-server@nic.switch.ch\n(send \"help\").\n\nThe information contained herein has been gathered from a variety of sources. \nIn many cases attribution has been lost; if you would like to claim \nresponsibility for a particular item, please let me know. \n\nConventions used below: telephone numbers tend to be Bell-system unless \notherwise noted; prices on items are not included; email addresses are those\nthat work from the US.\n\nX Window System is a trademark of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. \nOther trademarks are the property of their respective owners.\n\n(Note: a script by George Ferguson (ferguson@cs.rochester.edu) to pretty-print\nthis faq is available from ugle.unit.no:/pub/X11/contrib/xfaq2texinfo.)\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 0) TOPIC: BASIC INFORMATION SOURCES AND DEFINITIONS\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 1)! What books and articles on X are good for beginners?\n\n\tKen Lee of SynOptics (klee@synoptics.com) regularly posts to \ncomp.windows.x and ba.windows.x a bibliography containing cites of all known \nreference books and how-to manuals and also cites of selected technical \narticles on X and X programming; it is ftp-able as \n\texport.lcs.mit.edu:/contrib/Xbibliography and \n\tgatekeeper.dec.com:/pub/X11/contrib/Xbibliography\n\nHere is an unordered set of the reference books and tutorials most useful for\nbeginners; most appear on that list [comments are gathered from a variety of \nplaces and are unattributable]:\n\nAsente, Paul J., and Swick, Ralph R., \"X Window System Toolkit, The Complete\nProgrammer's Guide and Specification\", Digital Press, 1990. The bible on Xt. A\ntreasury of information, excellent and invaluable. Distributed by Digital \nPress, ISBN 1-55558-051-3, order number EY-E757E-DP; and by Prentice-Hall, \nISBN 0-13-972191-6. Also available through DEC Direct at 1-800-DIGITAL. \n[The examples are on export.lcs.mit.edu in contrib/ and on gatekeeper.dec.com \n(16.1.0.2) in pub/X11/contrib as asente-swick.examples.tar.Z. They were also \nposted to comp.sources.x as xt-examples/part0[1-5].]\n\nJones, Oliver, Introduction to the X Window System, Prentice-Hall, 1988, 1989.\nISBN 0-13-499997-5. An excellent introduction to programming with Xlib. \nWritten with the programmer in mind, this book includes many practical tips \nthat are not found anywhere else. This book is not as broad as the O'Reilly \nXlib tutorial, but Jones is an experienced X programmer and this shows in the \nquality and depth of the material in the book. Originally written for X11R1, \nrecent printings have included corrections and additions and current material.\n \nYoung, Doug. \"The X Window System: Applications and Programming with Xt (Motif \nVersion),\" Prentice Hall, 1989 (ISBN 0-13-497074-8). The excellent tutorial \n\"X Window System Programming and Applications with Xt,\" (ISBN 0-13-972167-3) \nupdated for Motif. [The examples are available on export; the ones from the \nMotif version are in ~ftp/contrib/young.motif.tar.Z.]\n\nYoung, Doug and John Pew, \"The X Window System: Programming and Applications \nwith Xt, OPEN LOOK Edition\" (ISBN 0-13-982992-X). The tutorial rewritten for \nOLIT, with new examples and drag/drop information. [Examples are on export in\nyoug.olit.tar.Z and in you OpenWindows 3 distribution in \n$OPENWINHOME/share/src/olit/olitbook.]\n\nHeller, Dan. \"Motif Programmers Manual\". The 6th Volume in the O'Reilly series\ncovers Motif application programming; it's full of good examples. With Motif\nreference pages. (ISBN 0-9937175-70-6.) [The examples are available on uunet\nin comp.sources.x and nutshell archives.] [A Motif 1.2 will be out soon.]\n \nScheifler, Robert, and James Gettys, with Jim Flowers and David Rosenthal, \"X \nWindow System: The Complete Reference to Xlib, X Protocol, ICCCM, XLFD, X \nVersion 11, Release 5, Third Edition,\" Digital Press, 1992. \"The Bible\" in its \nlatest revision, an enhanced version of X documentation by the authors of the \nXlib documentation. This is the most complete published description of the X \nprogramming interface and X protocol. It is the primary reference work and is \nnot introductory tutorial documentation; additional tutorial works will usually\nbe needed by most new X programmers. Digital Press order EY-J802E-DP, ISBN \n0-13-971201-1.\n \t\nNye, Adrian, \"Xlib Programming Manual, Volume 1\" and \"Xlib Reference Manual, \nVolume 2,\" O'Reilly and Associates. A superset of the MIT X documentation; the \nfirst volume is a tutorial with broad coverage of Xlib, and the second \ncontains reference pages for Xlib functions and many useful reference \nappendices. Both cover X11R5 (and R4). ISBN 0-937175-26-9 (volume 1) and ISBN \n0-937175-27-7 (volume 2). \n\nNye, Adrian, and Tim O'Reilly, \"X Toolkit Programming Manual, Volume 4,\"\nO'Reilly and Associates, 1989. The folks at O'Reilly give their comprehensive\ntreatment to programming with the MIT Intrinsics; R4 versions are now\navailable, as is a Motif 1.1 version (Volume 4M).\n\nO'Reilly, Tim, ed., \"X Toolkit Reference Manual, Volume 5,\" O'Reilly and \nAssociates. A professional reference manual for the MIT X11R4 and X11R5 Xt.\n\nMansfield, Niall. \"The X Window System: A User's Guide,\" Addison-Wesley, 1989.\nA tutorial introduction to using X, now upgraded for R4. ISBN 0-201-51341-2.\n\nQuercia, Valerie and Tim O'Reilly. \"X Window System User's Guide,\" O'Reilly and\nAssociates. A tutorial introduction to using X. ISBN 0-937175-36-6.\nAlso available in R4 and Motif flavors.\n\nMui, Linda and Eric Pearce. \"X Window System Administrator's Guide for X11 R4 \nand R5\" [ORA Volume 8]. Help for X users and administrators. \nISBN 0-937175-83-8.\n\n(Prentice-Hall ordering is 201-767-5937. O'Reilly ordering is 800-998-9938.)\n\nIn addition, check the X11R4 and X11R5 core distribution in doc/tutorials for \nsome useful papers and tutorials, particularly the file answers.txt. \"Late \nNight's Top Ten X11 Questions\" by Dave Lemke (lemke@ncd.com) and Stuart Marks \n(smarks@sun.com) answers other common questions and some of these here in more\ndetail.\n\nNew R5 versions of the O'Reilly references (not yet Volume 6) are now available\n[8/92]. A single volume, \"Programmer's Supplement for R5\" by David Flanagan, \nprovides an overview of new R5 features; it includes man pages for Xlib, Xt, \nand Xmu. [ISBN 0-937175-86-2]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 2)! What courses on X and various X toolkits are available?\n\n\tAdvanced Computing Environments periodically offers at least a two-day\nIntroduction course. Contact Susie Karlson at 415-941-3399 for information.\n\n\tAT&T offers training in Xlib and in the Xol set. Contact AT&T Corporate\nEducation & Training for more info; 1-800-TRAINER in the USA.\n\n\tBIM Educational Services offers training in X administration and in\nprogramming with Xt/Motif and Open Windows; the courses are given near \nBrussels. Info: edu@sunbim.be, voice +32-(0)2-7595925, fax +32-(0)2-7599209.\n\n\tCommunica Software Consultants offers three-day hands-on courses in X \ndesigned for the X Window System developer and programmer. Contact Chris \nClarkson, telephone 61 8 3732523, e-mail communica@communica.oz.au. [12/92]\n\n\tCora Computer Technologies (516-485-7343) offers several courses.\n\n\tGHCT offers a one week lecture/lab course for programmmers designed by\nDouglas Young based on his book \"The X Window System: Programming and Applica-\ntions with Xt, OSF/Motif Edition\". Information: Brian Stell (415-966-8805 or\nghct!brian@sgi.com).\n\n\tGHG offers a range of courses on X and Motif. Information: 713-488-8806\nor training-info@ghg.hou.tx.us.\n\n\tHands On Learning has live training and self-paced video workshops on \ntopics such as using and/or programming X, Xlib, Xm, Xt, and widget-writing. \nInformation: 617-272-0088, 800-248-9133.\n\n\tHewlett-Packard (1-800-HPCLASS; or contact your local HP center) offers\na 2-day \"Introduction to X\", a 5-day Xlib course, a 1-day Xt and Motif 1.1 \nseminar, and a 5-day Motif lab course.\n\n\tIntegrated Computer Solutions, Inc., offers several multi-day, hands-on\ncourses on X, Xt, and the Xaw and Motif widget sets, in particular. Information\nis available at 617-621-0060 and info@ics.com.\n\n\tIntelligent Visual Computing teaches several lab courses on-site for\nMotif and XView. IVC is at 1-800-776-2810 or +1 919-481-1353 or at \ninfo@ivc.com.\n\n\tIris Computing Laboratories offers five-day Xlib and Xt courses.\nInfo: +1-505-988-2670 or info@spectro.com.\n\n\tIXI Limited (+44 223 462 131) offers regular X training courses for \nboth programmers and non-technical managers. See also: Unipalm, below.\n\n\tLearning Tree International offers a four-day course in X Window System\napplications development, including Xlib and some information on Motif. For \nmore info call 800-824-9155 (213-417-3484); 613-748-7741 in Canada. Courses are\noffered in major North American cities; also in London, Stockholm, Tokyo, and \nelsewhere.\n\n\tLurnix offers 4-day \"type-along courses\" on Xt; the course is being\nported from Xaw to Xm. Information is available at 800-433-9337 (in CA: -9338).\n\n\tMitch Trachtenberg and Associates offers regular 5-day lab courses on\nprogramming with OSF/Motif, usually in but not limited to Cambridge, MA. \nInfo: +1 617-225-0440, info@mta.com.\n\n\tNon Standard Logics (+33 (1) 43 36 77 50; requests@nsl.fr) offers\ncourses on programming with Xlib, Motif, and creating Motif widgets.\n\n\tOSF Educational Services (617-621-8778) offers one-day seminars and \none-week Motif lab courses.\n\n\tJohn A. Pew offers a 5-day course on OLIT, possibly based on his book\non that subject; 408-224-5739.\n\n\tSCO (+44 923 816344, scol-info@sco.COM) offers training for its Open \nDesktop (Motif) environment in the UK and Europe.\n\n\tSoftware Pundits (617-270-0639) offers a range of courses.\n\n\tTechnology Exchange (617-944-3700) offers a 4-day Xlib/Xt/Motif course.\n\n\tTeleSoft is now offering a 1-day plus 3-day seminar on X and Motif.\nInformation: Bruce Sherman (619-457-2700, bds@telesoft.com).\n\n\tUnipalm XTech offers OSF's 5-day Motif course and a 1-day overview on \nX. Information: Unipalm Training at +44 952 211797, xtech@unipalm.co.uk.\n\n\tThe University of Edinburgh is developing a series of courses on X and\nrelated topics primarily for non-profit-making training in academia but also \nfor commercial use. Information: Cliff Booth, Unipalm Ltd, phone +44 223 \n420002, fax +44 223 426868.\n\n\tVarious other vendors are also beginning to offer X training, usually \nspecific to a proprietary toolkit or to Xt and a proprietary widget set: DEC \nis offering Xlib courses; Sun offers an XView course.\n\n\tVarious universities are offering short X courses or overviews: UCLA,\nDartmouth, University of Lowell, University of Canberra (within Australia: \n062-522422) ... \n\tUC Berkeley Extension will have a one week X/Motif class for \nprogrammers in San Francisco starting on July 29. The class will have a \nhands-on lab. For more information contact UCBX at 415 323 8141.\n\n\tAmong the best places to find courses are at the various Unix \nconferences -- Uniforum, Usenix, Unix Expo, Xhibition, the MIT X Technical\nConference, the ACM tutorial weeks, &c.\n\n\tIn addition, the X Consortium posts approximately quarterly a list of\nunendorsed speakers and consultants who can provide talks on a variety of X \ntopics.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 3)! What conferences on X are coming up?\n\n\tThe Xhibition 93 X trade show and conference, with tutorials, panels, \npresentations, and vendor exhibits, will be held at the San Jose Convention\nCenter June 7-11, 1993. Information: +1 617 621 0060, xhibit@ics.com.\n\n\tThe Tcl/Tk Workshop will be held at UCal Berkeley June 10-11, 1993.\nInformation: tcl93@cs.berkeley.edu.\n\n\tThe 1993 Andrew Technical Conference and Consortium Annual Meeting will\nbe held June 24-25, 1993, in Pittsburgh. Information: \nWilfred.Hansen@cs.cmu.EDU.\n\n\tThe European X User Group holds an annual conference which typically \nincludes includes paper presentations and a vendor exhibit. EXUG'93, \"X in the\nReal World and Multimedia\" will be held 9/16-9/17 at the Imperial College of\nScience and Technology, London. Information: exug@demon.co.uk, niall@uit.co.uk \nor p.whitehead@cc.ic.ac.uk, +44 (0) 223 426534, fax +44 (0) 223 420251.\n\n\tThe Motif show is held in Washington to coincide with the FedUnix and \nthe Federal Open Systems Conference (usually December). Information: \nmotif@fedunix.org or paller@fedunix.org, 301-229-1062, fax 301-229-1063.\n\n\tThe MIT X Technical Conference is typically held in January in Boston.\nRegistration information is available from registration@expo.lcs.mit.edu.\n\n\tThe XWorld Conference and Exhibition includes tutorials, panels, \npresentations and vendor exhibits. It is typically held in March in New York \nCity. Information: SIGS Publication Group at 212-274-9135.\n\n\n\tOther trade shows -- UnixExpo, Uniforum, Siggraph -- show an increasing\npresence of X, including tutorials and exhibits.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 4) What X-related public mailing lists are available?\n\n\tThe xpert mailing list is the general, public mailing list on X\nmaintained by the X Consortium. The mailings are gatewayed, so xpert is almost \nidentical to the comp.windows.x Usenet newsgroup. \n\n\t***\tIf you get comp.windows.x, you don't need to \t***\n\t***\tbe added to the xpert mailing list. \t\t***\n\n\tOtherwise, you can join the list to receive X information \nelectronically. It is best to find a local distribution; perhaps someone within\nyour company is already receiving the mailing. As a last resort, send mail to \nxpert-request@expo.lcs.mit.edu with a valid return electronic address. \n\n\tThe xannounce mailing list carries major X announcements, such as new\nreleases (including public patches from MIT), public reviews, adoption of \nstandards by the MIT X Consortium, and conference announcements. It does NOT \ncarry advertisements, source code, patches, or questions. If you already \nreceive the Usenet news group comp.windows.x.announce or the xpert mailing \nlist, you don't need to be added to the xannounce mailing list. Otherwise, to \nsubscribe, send a request to xannounce-request@expo.lcs.mit.edu. Note: Only \nredistribution addresses will be accepted for this list -- i.e. no personal \naddresses. If you wish to receive xannounce yourself, please contact your mail \nadministrator to set up a local redistribution list and to put you on it. \n\tcomp.windows.x.apps is not gatewayed to a mailing list.\n\n\tIn addition, the X Consortium sponsors these public lists:\n\t\tbug-clx CLX bug reports and discussions\n\t\tx-ada X and ada\n\t\tx11-3d people interested in X and 3d graphics\n\t\tximage people interested in image processing and X\n\t\txvideo discussion of video extensions for X\n\tTo subscribe to one of these lists, assuming no-one in your \norganization already receives it, send mail to -request@expo.lcs.mit.edu\nwith the Subject line including the name of the LIST in caps and the request\n\"addition request\". In the body of the message be sure to give an address for \nyour local distribution which is accessible from MIT (eddie.mit.edu).\n\n\tA mailing list for topics related to OPEN LOOK is sponsored by Greg\nPasquariello of Unify corporation; send to openlook-request@unify.com (or\nopenlook-request%unify@uunet.uu.net) for information. \n\tA mailing list for bugs in the publicly-available version of XView\nsource, in particular, is sponsored by Sun; send for information to \nxviewbug-trackers-request@sun.com. \n\tA mailing list for topics related to Motif is sponsored by Kee Hinckley\nof Alfalfa Software, Inc.; send to motif-request@alfalfa.com for information. \n(This group is gatewayed to comp.windows.x.motif.)\n\tA mailing list for topics related to the XPM pixmap-format is sponsored\nby Arnaud Le Hors of Group Bull; send to xpm-talk-request@sa.inria.fr for\ninformation. [1/91]\n\tA mailing list discussing InterViews can be subscribed to by sending to\ninterviews-request@interviews.stanford.edu.\n\tA mailing list (amiga-x11@nic.funet.fi) for topics related to the port \nof X11 to the Amiga can be subscribed by sending to mailserver@nic.funet.fi a \nmessage containing\n\t\tSubject: Adding myself to AMIGA-X11\n\t\tSUBS AMIGA-X11 Your Real Name\n\tA mailing list discussing ParcPlace's (formerly Solbourne's) OI (Object\nInterface) toolkit can be subscribed to at oi-users-requests@bbn.com.\n\tA mailing list discussing multi-threaded Xlib can be subscribed to at\nmt-xlib-request@xsoft.xerox.com.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 5) How can I meet other X developers? \n\n\tO'Reilly and Associates sponsors a mailing list for the use of X user \ngroup organizers; subscribe by sending to listserv@ora.com the message \n\"subscribe xgroups your@internet.address\".\n\n\tLocal area X user's groups are listed in Issue 4 of O'Reilly's X \nResource journal; a list may also be available from xug@ics.com.\n\n\tThe French X User Group is called AFUX and is based in Sophia Antipolis\nby CERICS. Information can be obtained from Miss Vasseur or Miss Forest; BP \n148; 157, rue Albert Einstein; 06561 Valbonne Cedex; Phone: +33 93 95 45 00 / \n45 01; Fax: +33 93 95 48 57. [10/90]\n\n\tThe European X User Group was formed in 1989 to represent X users in \nEurope. It holds technical conferences at regular intervals. The EXUG also \npublishes a regular newsletter which is distributed free of charge to members. \nThe EXUG also runs a email mailing list for members which is frequently used to\naddress issues of European interest in X. The EXUG can be contacted at\nP.Whitehead@cc.ic.ac.uk, +44 (071) 225 8754, fax +44 (071) 823 9497.\n\n\tGXUGiV is the German X User's Group in Vorbereitung (\"in preparation\")\nbeing formed for X programmers and users; it is associated with the EXUG. All\ninterested should contact Olaf Heimburger (+49 30 7 79 54 64; and at\nmcvax!unido!tub!olaf).\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 6) What related FAQs are available?\n\n\tLiam R. E. Quin (lee@sq.sq.com) posts a FAQ on Open Look to \ncomp.windows.open-look. \n\tJan Newmarch (jan@pandonia.canberra.edu.au) posts a FAQ on Motif to \ncomp.windows.x.motif.\n\tPeter Ware (ware@cis.ohio-state.edu) posts a FAQ for\ncomp.windows.x.intrinsics; it is on export in contrib/FAQ-Xt.\n\tArt Mulder (art@cs.ualberta.ca) posts to comp.windows.x a FAQ on \nmaximizing the performance of X.\n\tSteve Kotsopoulos (steve@ecf.toronto.edu) posts to comp.windows.x a FAQ\nabout using X on Intel-based Unix systems.\n\tThe FAQ in alt.binaries.pictures contains information on viewing images\nwith X and on massaging image formats.\n\tThe FAQ in comp.mail.mh (gatewayed to MH-users@ics.uci.edu) includes a \nsection on xmh.\n\tThe FAQ in comp.lang.lisp contains information on several interface\ntools and toolkits.\n\tThere exists a PEX/PHiGS FAQ.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 7) How do I ask a net-question so as to maximize helpful responses?\n\n\tWhen asking for help on the net or X mailing lists, be sure to include \nall information about your setup and what you are doing. The more specific you\nare, the more likely someone will spot an error in what you are doing. Without\nall the details, people who want to help you often have to guess -- if they are\nable to respond at all.\n\n\tAlways mention what version of X you are using and where you got it \nfrom. If your server came from a different source as the rest of your X system,\ngive details of that, too. Give the machine type, operating system, and O/S \nversion for both the client and server machine. It may also be appropriate to \nmention the window manager, compiler, and display hardware type you are using.\n\n\tThen tell exactly what you are doing, exactly what happens, and what\nyou expected/wanted to happen. If it is a command that fails, include the \nexact transcript of your session in the message. If a program you wrote \ndoesn't work the way you expect, include as little of the source necessary \n(just a small test case, please!) for readers to reproduce the problem.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 8) What publications discussing X are available?\n\n\tThe trade magazines (Unix World, Unix Review, Computer Language, etc.)\nare publishing more articles on X. Two X-specific publications include:\n\n\t- O'Reilly and Associates publishes \"The X Resource: A Practical \nJournal of the X Window System\" (103 Morris St. #A, Sebastapol, CA 95472). \nEditorial information: Adrian Nye, adrian@ora.com.\n\n\t- The X Journal is started bi-monthly publication September 1991 on a \nvariety of X topics. Subscription information: The X Journal, Subscriber \nServices, Dept XXX, P.O. Box 3000, Denville, NJ 07834, USA. Editorial \ninformation: editors%topgun@uunet.uu.net.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 9) What are these common abbreviations/acronyms?\n\n\tXt: The X Toolkit Intrinsics is a library layered on Xlib which \nprovides the functionality from which the widget sets are built. An \"Xt-based\" \nprogram is an application which uses one of those widget sets and which uses \nIntrinsics mechanisms to manipulate the widgets.\n\tXmu: The Xmu library is a collection of Miscellaneous Utility functions\nuseful in building various applications and widgets.\n\tXaw: The Athena Widget Set is the MIT-implemented sample widget set\ndistributed with X11 source.\n\tXm: The OSF/Motif widget set from the Open Software Foundation; binary\nkits are available from many hardware vendors.\n\tXhp (Xw): The Hewlett-Packard Widget Set was originally based on R2++, \nbut several sets of patches exist which bring it up to R3, as it is distributed\non the X11R4 tapes. Supplemental patches are available to use it with R4/R5.\n\tCLX: The Common Lisp X Interface is a Common Lisp equivalent to Xlib.\n\tXDMCP: The X Display Manager Protocol provides a uniform mechanism for \na display such as an X terminal to request login service from a remote host.\n\tXLFD: The X Logical Font Description Conventions describes a standard\nlogical font description and conventions to be used by clients so that they\ncan query and access those resources.\n\tRTFM: Common expert-speak meaning \"please locate and consult the \nrelevant documentation -- Read the Forgotten Manual\".\n\tUTSL: A common expression meaning \"take advantage of the fact that you \naren't limited by a binary license -- Use The Source, Luke\".\n\tAPI: Application-Programmer Interface. The function calls, etc., in\na programming library.\n\tBDF: Bitmap Distribution Format; a human-readable format for uncompiled\nX fonts.\n\tGUI: graphical user interface.\n\tUIL: the User Interface Language, part of OSF/Motif which lets \nprogrammers specify a widget hierarchy in a simple \"outline\" form\n\tWCL: the Widget Creation Language, a package which extends the \nunderstanding of the Xt resource format such that a widget hierarchy and \nactions on the widgets can be specified through the resources file\n\tGIL: the file format put out by Sun's OpenWindows Developers Guide 3.0\n\tUIMS: User Interface Management System\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 10) What is the ICCCM? (How do I write X-friendly applications?)\n\n\tThe Inter-Client Communication Conventions Manual is one of the \nofficial X Consortium standards documents that define the X environment. It \ndescribes the conventions that clients must observe to coexist peacefully with \nother clients sharing the same server. If you are writing X clients, you need \nto read and understand the ICCCM, in particular the sections discussing the \nselection mechanism and the interaction between your client and the window \nmanager. Get it either:\n\t- as part of the R4 distribution from MIT\n\t- in the later editions of the Scheifler/Gettys \"X Window System\" book\n\t- as an appendix in the new version of O'Reilly's Volume 0, \"X Protocol\nReference Manual.\" A version in old copies of their Volume 1 is obsolete.\n\tThe version in the Digital Press book is much more readable, thanks to \nthe efforts of Digital Press's editors to improve the English and the \npresentation.\n\n[from David Rosenthal, 10/90]\n\n\t- the ICCCM was updated for R5; updates are published in O'Reilly's\n\"Programmer's Supplement for Release 5\". The complete document is on the R5\ntapes.\n\n\tAlternate definition: the ICCCM is generally the M in \"RTFM\" and is\nthe most-important of the least-read X documents.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 11) What is the X Consortium, and how do I join?\n\n\tThe MIT X Consortium was formed in January of 1988 to further the\ndevelopment of the X Window System and has as its major goal the promotion of \ncooperation within the computer industry in the creation of standard software \ninterfaces at all layers in the X Window System environment.\n\tMIT's role is to provide the vendor-neutral architectural and \nadministrative leadership required to make this work. Membership in the \nConsortium open to any organization. There are two categories of membership, \nMember (for large organizations) and Affiliate (for smaller organizations).\n\tMost of the Consortium's activities take place via electronic mail, \nwith meetings when required. As designs and specifications take shape,\ninterest groups are formed from experts in the participating organizations. \nTypically a small multi-organization architecture team leads the design, with \nothers acting as close observers and reviewers. Once a complete specification\nis produced, it may be submitted for formal technical review by the Consortium\nas a proposed standard. The standards process typically includes public \nreview (outside the Consortium) and a demonstration of proof of concept.\n\tYour involvement in the public review process or as a Member or \nAffiliate of the Consortium is welcomed.\n\tWrite to: Bob Scheifler, MIT X Consortium, Laboratory for Computer \nScience, 545 Technology Square, Cambridge, MA 02139.\n\n[For complete information see the XCONSORTIUM man page from the X11R4\ndistribution, from which this information is adapted.] [2/90]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 12) Just what are OPEN LOOK and Motif?\n\n\tOPEN LOOK and Motif are two graphical user interfaces (GUIs). OPEN LOOK\nwas developed by Sun with help from AT&T and many industry reviewers; Motif was\ndeveloped by the Open Software Foundation (OSF) with input from many OSF \nmembers. \n\n\tOPEN LOOK is primarily a user-interface specification and style-guide; \nthere are several toolkits which can be used to produce OPEN LOOK applications.\nMotif includes an API specification; the only sanctioned Motif toolkit is the \none from OSF. However, there are other toolkits which can be used to produce \nprograms which look and behave like OSF/Motif; one of these, ParcPlace's \n(formerly Solbourne's) OI, is a \"virtual toolkit\" which provides objects in the\nstyle of OPEN LOOK and Motif, at the user's choice.\n\n\tOPEN LOOK GUI is also the name of a product from AT&T, comprising \ntheir OPEN LOOK Intrinsics Toolkit and a variety of applications.\n\n[Thanks to Ian Darwin, ian@sq.com, 5/91]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 13) Just what is OpenWindows?\n\n\tOpen Windows (3.0) is a Sun product that encompasses: a window system \nthat combines a NeWS and X11-compliant server (X/NeWS); a user-interface \nspecification (OPEN LOOK) and a series of toolkits that implement it (including\nthe SunView-like XView and the Xt-based OLIT); Xlib and Xt implementations; and\na number of utilities (olwm window manager, filemgr, shelltool, etc.).\n\n[thanks to Frank Greco (fgreco@govt.shearson.COM), 8/90; 4/92] \n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 14) Just what is DECWindows?\n\n\tDECWindows is a DEC product that encompasses: an X11 server; the XUI \ntoolkit, including the Dwt widget set and UIL; Xlib and Xt implementations; a \nsession manager; and a number of utilities (dxwm window manager, dxcalendar, \ndxpsview, etc.).\n\n(At some point Motif flavors of the toolkit and applications will be shipped.)\n[8/90] \n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 15) What is PEX?\n\n\tPEX is the \"PHiGS Extension to X\".\n\tPHiGS stands for \"Programmer's Hierarchical Interactive Graphics \nSystem\" and is essentially a library of functions that simplifies the creation \nand manipulation of 3D graphics. Many platforms are capable of performing in \nhardware the computations involved in rendering 3D objects; the extension \nallows the client (PHiGS in this case) to take advantage of the specialized \nhardware for 3D graphics.\n\tSun Microsystems is currently contracted to develop a freely \nredistributable (copyright similar to the current X copyright) sample\nimplementation. Source and documentation are available in the R5 release.\nSeveral vendors are currently selling independently-developed PEX servers for \ntheir workstations and X terminals.\n\n[last modified 10/91]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 16) What is \"low-bandwidth X\" (LBX)? XRemote? PPP? SLIP? CSLIP?\n\nThere are several options for using X over serial lines:\n\nSLIP - Serial Line IP; this is both a mechanism and a protocol for sending IP\npackets over point-to-point serial links. It has been around for several years,\nand implementations are available for many of the major TCP/IP implementations.\nMost X Terminal vendors supply this as a checkoff item, although nobody really \never uses it since it is horribly slow. The TCP/IP headers add 40 bytes per \npacket and the TCP/IP encoding of the X protocol is rather verbose (rightfully \nso; it is optimized for packing and unpacking over high-speed links). \n\nCSLIP - Compressed header SLIP; this is a variant of SLIP that compresses the \n40 bytes of TCP/IP headers down to about 5 or 6 bytes. It still doesn't do \nanything about reencoding the X protocol. Modems that do compression can help,\nbut they increase packet latency (it takes time to dribble the uncompressed \ndata through typical serial interfaces, plus the compression assembly time).\n\nPPP - Point-to-Point Protocol; this is an emerging standard for point-to-point\nlinks over serial lines that has a more complete set of option negotiation than\nSLIP. A growing number of people see the combination of PPP for the serial \nline management and CSLIP for the header compression as becoming common for \nrunning normal TCP/IP protocols over serial lines. Running raw X over the wire\nstill needs compression somewhere to make it usable.\n\nXRemote - this is the name of both a protocol and set of products originally\ndeveloped by NCD for squeezing the X protocol over serial lines. In addition \nto using a low level transport mechanism similar to PPP/CSLIP, XRemote removes \nredundancies in the X protocol by sending deltas against previous packets and \nusing LZW to compress the entire data stream. This work is done by either a \npseudo-X server or \"proxy\" running on the host or in a terminal server. There \nare several advantages to doing compression outside the modem:\n (1)\tYou don't *have* to have compressing modems in there if you wouldn't \n\totherwise be using them (e.g. if you were going to be directly \n\tconnected), and\n (2)\tIt reduces the I/O overhead by cutting down on the number of bytes that\n\thave to cross the serial interface, and\n (3)\tIn addition to the effects of #2, it reduces the latency in delivering \n\tpackets by not requiring the modem to buffer up the data waiting for \n\tblocks to compress.\n\nLBX - Low Bandwidth X; this is an X Consortium project that is working on a\nstandard for this area. It is being chaired by NCD and Xerox and is using \nNCD's XRemote protocol as a stepping stone in developing the new protocol. LBX\nwill go beyond XRemote by adding proxy caching of commonly-used information \n(e.g. connection setup data, large window properties, font metrics, keymaps, \netc.) and a more efficient encoding of the X protocol. The hope is to have a \nStandard ready for public review in the first half of next year and a sample \nimplementation available in R6.\n\nAdditional technical information about how XRemote works and a few notes on how\nLBX might be different are available via anonymous ftp from export.lcs.mit.edu\nin contrib/ in the following files:\n XRemote-slides.ps slides describing XRemote\n XRemote-LBX-diffs.ps more slides describing some of LBX\n\n[information provided by Jim Fulton, jim@ncd.com; 7/92]\n\n\tThere is also a set of slides on export from Jim Fulton's talk at\nthe 7th MIT X Technical Conference.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 17) TOPIC: USING X IN DAY-TO-DAY LIFE\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 18)! What are all these different window managers?\n\n\tThe window manager in X is just another client -- it is not part of the\nX window system, although it enjoys special privileges -- and so there is\nno single window manager; instead, there are many which support different ways \nfor the user to interact with windows and different styles of window layout,\ndecoration, and keyboard and colormap focus. In approximate chronological order\n(generally, the more recent ones are more conformant with the ICCCM):\n\n\twm: this simple title-bar window manager was phased out in R2 or R3\n\tuwm: the Universal Window Manager is still popular for its speed, \nalthough it is very outdated. Moved to contrib/ on the R4 tape.\n\ttwm (old): Tom's Window Manager was among the first non-MIT window \nmanagers and offered the user a great deal of customization options in a\nre-parenting window manager. \n\tawm: the Ardent Window Manager remains a hotbed for hackers and offers\nsome features (dynamic menus) not found on more current window managers\n\tcwm: cwm is part of the Andrew system. \n\trtl: Siemen's window manager tiles windows so that they don't overlap\nand resizes the window with the focus to its preferred size.\n\tdxwm: Digital's dxwm is part of the DECwindows offering\n\thpwm: HP's window manager offers a 3D look; it is a precursor of mwm\n\tmwm: the Motif window manager is part of the OSF/Motif toolkit\n\ttekwm: Tektronix's window manager offering \n\tolwm (Sun): olwm implements the OPEN LOOK GUI and some of the Style\nGuide functionality\n\tolwm (AT&T): ditto\n\tgwm: Bull's Generic Window Manager emulates others with a built-in\nLisp interpreter. Version 1.7h (10/91) is on the R5 contrib tape; 1.7n is on\navahi.inria.fr and export.lcs.mit.edu. [3/93]\n\tm_swm: the Sigma window manager is on the R4 tape\n\tpswm: Sun's PostScript-based pswm is part of the OpenWindows release\n\tswm: Solbourne's swm is based on the OI toolkit and offers multiple\nGUI support and also a panned virtual window; configuration information comes\nfrom the resources file\n\ttwm (new): MIT's new Tab Window Manager from the R4 tape is a reworked\ntwm and is the basis for several derivatives, including the one on the R5 tape\n\tvtwm: vtwm offers some of the virtual-desktop features of swm, with a\nsingle-root window implementation; it is based on the R4 twm and is available\non archive servers. A new version, vtwm-5.0, is based on R5.9 and is available \nfrom export. [3/92]\n\ttvtwm: Tom's Virtual Tab Window Manager is also based on the R4 twm\nand provides a virtual desktop modeled on the virtual-root window of swm. It is\navailable on archive servers\n\tolvwm: the vtwm-style virtual-desktop added to Sun's olwm. It is \navailable on archive servers; version 3.3 [1/93] is on export.\n\tmvwm: the vtwm-style virtual-desktop added to OSF's mwm. A beta version\nis floating around (most recently from suresh@unipalm.co.uk) but requires a \nsource license to OSF/Motif 1.1.3 [3/92].\n\tNCDwm: the window manager local to NCD terminals offers an mwm look \n\tXDSwm: the window manager local to Visual Technology's terminals \n\tctwm: Claude Lecommandeur's (lecom@sic.epfl.ch) modification of the R5 \ntwm offers 32 virtual screens in the fashion of HP vuewm; source is on export.\nVersion 2.2.2 [2/93] also offers the window overview used in vtwm and tvtwm.\n\tvuewm: HP's MWM-based window manager offers configurable workspaces.\n\t4Dwm: SGI's enhanced MWM\n\tpiewm: this version of tvtwm offers pie menus\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 19) Why does my X session exit when I kill my window manager (sic)?\n\n\tIt needn't. What is probably happening is that you are running your \nwindow manager as the last job in your .xsession or .xinitrc file; your X \nsession runs only as long as the last job is running, and so killing your \nwindow manager is equivalent to logging out. Instead, run the window manager in\nthe background, and as the last job instead invoke something safe like:\n\t\texec xterm -name Login -rv -iconic\nor any special client of your devising which exits on some user action.\nYour X session will continue until you explicitly logout of this window, \nwhether or not you kill or restart your window manager.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 20) Can I save the state of my X session, like toolplaces does?\n\n\tAlthough no known window manager directly supports such a feature --\nwhich may be equivalent to writing out a .xinitrc or .xsession file naming the\ngeometry and WM_COMMAND of each application (but olvwm may have something \nclose) -- there is a contributed application which does much of what you are \nlooking for, although it is not as complete as the SunView program toolplaces. \nLook for the application \"xplaces\" on an archive-server near you. There are \nseveral versions of this program floating around; look for a recent vintage.\n[10/90]\n\tSome new pseudo session-managers such as HP's vuewm provide for the \nsaving of sessions including information on the geometry of currently-running\napplications and the resource database. \n[Bjxrn Stabell (bjoerns@staff.cs.uit.no); 3/93.]\n \n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 21) How do I use another window manager with DEC's session manager?\n\n\tDEC's session manager will start dxwm up by default. To override this, \nadd to your .Xdefaults file something like this line, naming the full pathname:\n\tsm.windowManagerName: /wherever/usr/bin/X11/your_favorite_wm\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 22) How do I change the keyboard auto-repeat rate?\n\n\tYou can turn auto-repeat on or off by using \"xset r on|off\". The X\nprotocol, however, doesn't provide for varying the auto-repeat rate, which is\na capability not supported by all systems.\n\tSome servers running on systems that support this, however, may provide\ncommand-line flags to set the rate at start-up time. If you have control over \nserver start-up (see the man pages for xinit and xdm), you can invoke the \nserver with the chosen settings; for example, you can start the Xsun server \nfrom MIT with the options \"-ar1 350 -ar2 30\" to reduce the sensitivity of the \nkeyboard.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 23) How do I remap the keys on my keyboard to produce a string?\n\n\tThere is no method of arranging for a particular string to be\nproduced when you press a particular key. The xmodmap client, which is useful \nfor moving your CTRL and ESC keys to useful places, just rearranges keys and \ndoes not do \"macro expansion.\"\n\tSome (few) clients, including xterm and several X-based editors, \naccept a translation resource such as:\n\txterm*VT100.Translations: #override \\\n\t\tF1: string(\"setenv DISPLAY unix:0\")\nwhich permits the shorthand F1 to be pressed to reset the display locally\nwithin an xterm; it takes effect for new xterm clients. To include control\ncharacters in the string, use \\nnn, where nnn is the octal encoding of the\ncontrol character you want to include.\n\tWindow managers, which could provide this facility, do not yet; nor\nhas a special \"remapper\" client been made available.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nDavid B. Lewis \t\t\t\t\tfaq%craft@uunet.uu.net\n\n\t\t\"Just the FAQs, ma'am.\" -- Joe Friday ", "Can anyone recommend a 3 button mouse that is compatible with MacX and Quadra?\nIf so, can the buttons be programed to say, cut, paste etc?\n\nCan anyone suggest a supplier?\n\nThe only 3 button mice I know exist are:\n\n\t1. Logitek\t$106.00 Aust (Injan ).\n\t2. Anorus\t$100.00 Aust (Mac direct).\nAre these ok for the above configuration?\n\nPlease reply me directly.\n\nregards\nChristopher Welsh\n\n--\nDeakin University \t\t\tChris Welsh\nDepartment of Computing and Maths\t\tcris@aragorn.cm.deakin.oz.au", "Hi,\n\tI am buying a Quantum LPS240AT 245 MB hardisk and is deciding a\n\tHDD/FDD controller. Is 32-bit VL-bus HDD/FDD controller faster \n\tthan 16 bit IDE HDD/FDD controller card? I hear that\n\tthe VL bus controller is SLOWER than a IDE controller?\n\tWhich one is true?\n\n\tPlease shed some light by email or post.\n\tThanks a lot.\n\nBest regards,\n \n ____________________________________________________________________________", "$400included shipping\n\n", "ITEMS FOR SALE\n\n\n\n\nI will take offers for the following items. I reserve the\nright to refuse any offers. \n\n\n1. Howard Miller Clock. It chimes like a grandfather clock. \n\n2. Painting- A Tiger in the snow. It is a beautiful painting, the tiger\n looks like it can jump off of the canvas and get you. \n\n3. Mens Diamond Ring, size 10 \na. 3 rows of diamonds\nb. 18k gold\n\nCall or email me.", "I am currently managing, among many other labs, a lab with three \nLC IIs, a Mac Plus with 45 MB external HD, and a LaserWriter II NTX. My \nproblem? The LC IIs seem to intermittently slow to a snail's pace.\n These LC IIs have 4 MB RAM, 256K VRAM, and a Quantum LP105S HD \ninstalled. I have reformatted the drive with Hard Disk Toolkit 1.3, and \nit gives a very respectable 2.9 overall rating to this drive, so it's not \nthe drive. I have reinstalled System 7.1, MS-Word 5.1a, MS-Works 3.0, and \nso on, all from the master disks. In short, I have done everything I can \nthink of in software. I am *not* a hardware hacker, though I pop cases \nfairly often. But nothing works.\n The problem is intermittent and unpredictable. The mouse always \nmoves smoothly, floppies always run at the same speed, but occasionally, \nfor about 1-2 hours at a time, a machine will run like it was running on \na 4 MHz 68000, not a 16 MHz 68030. It is VERY frustrating and makes it \nnearly unusable. It does seem to worsen with increasing disk activity.\n Has anyone encountered this problem before? Has anyone got any \nideas? They would be much appreciated.\n\n -- Andrew Geweke\n", "I have the following Playboy videos for sale. Email me if interested. All are\noriginal tapes (of course) in original boxes.\n\nVideo Playmate Calendar 1991\nWet & Wild II\nSexy Lingerie II\nSexy Lingerie III\n\nPrices are $15 each, 2 for $25, 3 for $35, or all 4 for $45.\n\nI also have a bunch of magazines (Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler, Chic, Club, and\nmore) Email me if interested in those too. I'm willing to sell all or part of\nmy collection cheaply.\n\n-Justin (jslauson@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu)\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n \"If builders built buildings like I write programs, then the first woodpecker\n that came along would destroy civilization.\"", "AllMartin EmdeDMM Advice Needed\n\nME>From: mce5921@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Martin Emde)\nME>Organization: Boeing\nME> \nME>I an currely in the market for a DMM and recently saw an add\nME>for a Kelvin 94 ($199). Does anyone own one of these or some\nME>other brand that they are extremely happy with. How do the \nME>small name brands compare with the Fluke and Beckman brands?\nME>I am willing to spend ~$200 for one.\nME> \nME>Any help is greatly appreciated. (please email)\nME> \nME>-Martin\n\nIf you are going to use one where it counts (eg:aviation, space scuttle, \netc) then I suggest you go and buy a Fluke (never seen a Beckman), however \nfor every other use you can buy a cheapie. I have a metex which is some \nmade up name, as I have seen the same DMM with other brand names on it, I \nbought it about 4 yrs ago for Aus$125.00 (convert that to US and you see \nthat it's definetly a cheapie.) So far it has proved to be accurate, taken \nmoderate abuse, and has many features on it (CAP, FREQ,Transistor check, \netc). I am very happy with it and would definetly not buy a fluke just for \nthe name. Hope this helps.", "Hi,\n\nI found what I believe is an undocumented feature in my windows directory,\nMicrosoft Diagnostics, ver 2.00. I am specifically interested in a more\nin depth explanation of the legends in the memory mapping report.\n\nThanks.", "I'm currently trying to select which magneto-optical drive to purchase. I'm\nprimarily looking at 128MB drives, although I might consider 256MB ones.\n\nWhen looking through MacWorld and MacUser ads, the prices for the 128MB drives\nseem to range from just under $1000 (for the DGR 128REM Portable, Magic 128MB\nPortable Fujitsu, or NuDesign 128MB from MacDirect) to about $1600 (for the\nFWB HammerDisk 130 and Mass Microsystems DataPak MO/128). Different drives\nuse different mechanisms - MOST, Fujitsu, Sony, Epson, probably some others.\n\nMy problem is that after reading the Nov 92 MacWorld and Apr 93 MacUser\nreviews of these drives, I'm still not sure what to get. So, I'm asking\nif anyone has had good/bad experiences with any 128MB M-O drive or can shed\nsome light on the wide range of prices (is spending more really buying me\nmuch?), reliability of different drives, compatibility between them, or \nanything else I should probably know.\n\nThanks.", "Hi all. I'm looking for datasets of a human body or head in any\nof the popular formats. I'm doing a presentation tomorrow which\ncould be greatly enhanced by bringing in this 'human' factor. I've\nlooked around the net with no sucess so far. Anyone got any ideas?\nI'd also appreciate info on the location of datasets for the\nUSS Enterprise (any model)\nThanks in advance,\nRonan\n", "\nSpeaking of which, a paper was out a few years ago about a\nweather sat imaging a lunar eclipse -- are those images\nuploaded anywhere? I could dig out the reference if there's interest.\n\nShag\n\n-- ", "For an upcoming project I want to use 4 Megs of DRAM configured as two 2\nMeg banks of 16 bit data. I was wondering if anyone out there knows of a\nDRAM controller which will handle refreshing the data. It's ok if the\ncontroller doesn't handle bank switching - that part is easy.\n\nThe only controllers I know of are the ones out of the National\nSemiconductor DRAM Management Handbook (1988 edition) eg. DP8429. I would\nlike to know if another manufacturer produces one which may be easier to\nimplement in my circuit.\n\nBTW, if anyone is wanting to hook up DRAM to a microcontroller, Dallas\nSemiconductor makes a neat chip: the DS1262 Serial DRAM Nonvolatizer\nChip. It uses the SPI (I2C) bus and refreshes/controls up to 16Mx1 of DRAM\nmemory. It can use an external battery to refresh the DRAM when the\npower is off. Price is $11.75 from Dallas (quan 1). I wish I could use\nthis chip but its maximum SPI clock rate is 1 MHz (too slow for me...).\n\nThanks in advance,\n\nWayne Schellekens\n", ": I have 19 (2 MB worth!) uuencode'd GIF images contain charts outlining\n: one of the many alternative Space Station designs being considered in\n: Crystal City. [...]\n\nI just posted the GIF files out for anonymous FTP on server ics.uci.edu.\nYou can retrieve them from:\n ics.uci.edu:incoming/geode01.gif\n ics.uci.edu:incoming/geode02.gif\n ics.uci.edu:incoming/geode03.gif\n ics.uci.edu:incoming/geode04.gif\n ics.uci.edu:incoming/geode05.gif\n ics.uci.edu:incoming/geode06.gif\n ics.uci.edu:incoming/geode07.gif\n ics.uci.edu:incoming/geode08.gif\n ics.uci.edu:incoming/geode09.gif\n ics.uci.edu:incoming/geode10.gif\n ics.uci.edu:incoming/geode11.gif\n ics.uci.edu:incoming/geode12.gif\n ics.uci.edu:incoming/geode13.gif\n ics.uci.edu:incoming/geode14.gif\n ics.uci.edu:incoming/geode15.gif\n ics.uci.edu:incoming/geode16.gif\n ics.uci.edu:incoming/geode17.gif\n ics.uci.edu:incoming/geodeA.gif\n ics.uci.edu:incoming/geodeB.gif\n\nThe last two are scanned color photos; the others are scanned briefing\ncharts.\n\nThese will be deleted by the ics.uci.edu system manager in a few days,\nso now's the time to grab them if you're interested. Sorry it took\nme so long to get these out, but I was trying for the Ames server,\nbut it's out of space.\n\n-- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office\n kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (713) 483-4368", "\nWell, there *is* the standards document. From the FAQ:\n\n12) How to order standards documents.\n\nThe American National Standards Institute sells ANSI standards, and also\nISO (international) standards. Their sales office is at 1-212-642-4900,\nmailing address is 1430 Broadway, NY NY 10018. It helps if you have the\ncomplete name and number.\n\nSome useful numbers to know:\n\nCGM (Computer Graphics Metafile) is ISO 8632-4 (1987). GKS (Graphical\nKernel System) is ANSI X3.124-1985. ...\n\n\nYou might also want to look at gplot from the folks at the Pittsburgh\nSupercomputer Center. Fish around at calpe.psc.edu. It is pretty\nnifty.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tspl", "I've just started messing with X Windows under Linux, and I've run into this\n\"-\" thing in the man-pages of a number of X clients.\n\nWhere can I get a list of these options? Is this only an \"xview\" thing?\n(If so, would some kind soul show me how to set it up under Linux?)", "# \n# A S T R O - F T P L I S T\n# Updated 28.04.1993\n#\n# This is a short description of anonymous-ftp file servers containing\n# astronomy and space research related material. I have included only those\n# servers where there are special subdirectories for astro stuff or much\n# material included into a general directories. This list is not a complete\n# data set of possible places, so I would be very happy of all kind of notices\n# and information depending on this listing.\n#\n# The newest version of this file is available via anonymous-ftp as:\n#\n# nic.funet.fi:/pub/astro/general/astroftp.txt\n# \n# There are also many mirror (copy) archives for simtel-20.army.mil (PC) and \n# sumex-aim.stanford.edu (Mac) which are not included into this list. Only some\n# of mirroring sites are listed.\n#\n#\n# Veikko Makela\n# Veikko.Makela@Helsinki.FI\n# *Computing Centre of Univ. Helsinki*\n# *Ursa Astronomical Association* \n\n\n# Server, IP # Contents \n# Directories \n \names.arc.nasa.gov Spacecraf data and news,images,NASA data,\n128.102.18.3 Spacelink texts,VICAR software,FAQ\n/pub/SPACE\n \narp.anu.edu.au Images\n130.56.4.90\n/pub/images/nasa\n\natari.archive.umich.edu Atari \n141.211.164.8 \n/atari/applications/astronomy \n \narchive.afit.af.mil Satellite software,documents,elements\n129.92.1.66\n/pub/space\n \nbaboon.cv.nrao.edu AIPS document and patches,radioastronomy\n192.33.115.103 image processing,FITS test images\n/pub/aips\n\nc.scs.uiuc.edu ROSAT,Starchart(PC) \n128.174.90.3 \n/pub \n \nccu1.aukuni.ac.nz PC\n130.216.1.5\n/msdos/astronomy (*) overseas connections refused\n\nchara.gsu.edu Electronical Journal of ASA, Journal of\n131.96.5.10 ASA, SAC news\n/\n\nexplorer.arc.nasa.gov Magellan, Viking and Voyager CDROMs\n128.102.32.18\n/cdrom\n\nexport.lcs.mit.edu XEphem distribution\n18.24.0.12\n/contrib/xephem\n\nepona.physics.ucg.ie Some software, predictions, images,\n140.203.1.3 FITS info, miscellaneous\n/pub/astro\n/pub/space\n/pub/fits\n\nfits.cv.nrao.edu FITS documents, OS support, sample data,\n192.33.115.8 test files, sci.astro.fits archive\n/FITS\n \nftp.cicb.fr Images\n129.20.128.27\n/pub/Images/ASTRO\n\nftp.cco.caltech.edu Astronomy magazine index 1991 \n131.215.48.200 \n/pub/misc \n \nftp.cs.tu-berlin.de PC,Amiga,Mac,Unix,images,general\n130.149.17.7\n/pub/astro\n\nftp.funet.fi PC,Mac,CP/M,Atari,Amiga,databases,Unix,\n128.214.6.100 HP48,OS/2,texts,News,solar reports,images,\n/pub/astro Satellite elements,FAQ\n \nftp.uni-kl.de iauc,Vista image reduction,asteroids\n131.246.9.95\n/pub/astro\n\ngarbo.uwasa.fi PC\n128.214.87.1\n/pc/astronomy \n \ngipsy.vmars.tuwien.ac.at images\n128.130.39.16\n/pub/spacegifs\n\nhanauma.stanford.edu Unix, satellite program, images\n36.51.0.16 \n/pub/astro \n/pub/astropix\n\nhysky1.stmarys.ca ECU distribution\n140.184.1.1\n/pcstuff\n\nidlastro.gsfc.nasa.gov IDL routines \n128.183.57.82\n/\n \niraf.noao.edu IRAF Software \n140.252.1.1 \n/iraf \n \njulius.cs.qub.ac.uk Space Digest\n143.117.5.6\n/pub/SpaceDigestArchive\n\nrata.vuw.ac.nz Astrophysical software\n130.195.2.11\n/pub/astrophys \n \nkilroy.jpl.nasa.gov Satellite elements,spacecraft info\n128.149.1.165\n/pub/space\n\nns3.hq.eso.org Test images, Standards\n134.171.11.4\n/pub/testimages\n/pub/standards\n\nnssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov HST,IUE,Astro-1,NSSDCA info,Spacewarn,\n128.183.36.23 FITS standard \n/ \n \nplaza.aarnet.edu.au images,docs,Magellan\n139.130.4.6\n/graphics/graphics/astro\n/magellan\n\npomona.claremont.edu Yale Bright Star Catalog\n134.173.4.160\n/YALE_BSC\n\npubinfo.jpl.nasa.gov JPL news, status reports, images\n128.149.6.2\n/\n\nra.nrl.navy.mil Mac\n128.60.0.21\n/MacSciTech/astro\n\nrascal.ics.utexas.edu Mac \n128.83.138.20\n/mac \n \nrigel.acs.oakland.edu PC\n141.210.10.117\n/pub/msdos/astronomy\n\nrusmv1.rus.uni-stuttgart.de Atari \n129.69.1.12 \n/soft/atari/applications/astronomy \n \nsimtel20.army.mil PC,CP/M \n192.88.110.20\n/msdos/educ \n/cpm \n \nsol.deakin.oz.au garbo.uwasa.fi c. \n128.184.1.1 \n/pub/PC/chyde/astronomy \n \nsolbourne.solbourne.com some PC programs\n141.138.2.2\n/pub/rp/as-is/astro\n\nstardent.arc.nasa.gov Martian map \n128.102.21.44 \n/pub \n \nstsci.edu HSTMap(Mac),HST info \n130.167.1.2 \n/Software \n \nsumex.stanford.edu Mac \n36.44.0.6 \n/info-mac/app \n \nsun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de PC,misc\n129.206.100.126\n/pub/msdos/astronomy\n\ntechreports.larc.nasa.gov NASA Langley technical reports\n128.155.3.58\n/pub/techreports/larc\n\ntetra.gsfc.nasa.gov FITSIO subroutines \n128.183.8.77 \n/pub\n \nunbmvs1.csd.unb.ca Space geodesy,solar activity info\n131.202.1.2\npub.canspace\n\nvmd.cso.uiuc.edu Weather satellite images\n128.174.5.98\n/wx\n\nworld.std.com PC; source codes\n192.74.137.5\n/pub/astronomy\n\nxi.uleth.ca Solar reports,auroral activity forecast\n142.66.3.29 maps,solar images,x-ray plot,coronal\n/pub/solar emission plots\n\n# Some abbreviations:\n#\n# c = copy (mirror) of other archive\n\n\n", "hello,\n\ni want to know if a spoilt com port will create problems with\nmouse ??\n\nmy mouse just gets stuck on the screen for a while and i have\nto press its button to be able to move it around again.....\n\nis there a shareware utility program to diagnose my com ports?", "wouldany one know afair price for an LC Color card in Aussie dollars??\njust wondering...", "\n Here's a listing that I came accross a while ago. This question seems to \ncome up often enough that I figured this would be of interest. Note that \nthe server \"X Appeal\" for DOS is available in demo form on the internet via \nanonymous ftp. This is one way of quickly checking out the feasability of \nusing your system as an X server. Enjoy!\n\n- Pete\n\n------------------------------- Begin Enclosure ----------------------------\nFrom: mccoy@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (Daniel J. McCoy)\nNewsgroups: comp.windows.x,news.answers\nSubject: X Servers for DOS, Microsoft Windows, OS/2, Macs, Amigas, Atari\nReply-To: mccoy@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (Daniel J. McCoy)\nOrganization: I-NET Inc.\nSummary: This is a guide or list of X servers that can be used on nonUNIX [sic] networked machines to display X clients running on UNIX machines.\n\nArchive-name: XServers-NonUNIX\nLast-modified: 1993/04/01\nVersion: 12.0\n\n================================================================================\n X Servers for DOS, Microsoft Windows, OS/2, Macs, Amigas, Atari\n================================================================================\n April 1, 1993 - Volume 12.0\n================================================================================\nAUTHOR: Daniel J. McCoy\n I-NET Inc.\n Software Technology Branch\n Information Systems Directorate\n NASA/Johnson Space Center\n\nPOST MAIL: NASA Mail Code PT4\n NASA/Johnson Space Center\n Houston, Texas 77058\n\nE-MAIL: mccoy@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov\n================================================================================\nThis is a monthly guide of X servers that can be used on non-UNIX\nnetworked machines to display X clients running on UNIX machines. I\nuse the name UNIX loosely here. I know others can run X.\n\nThe sources for this information come from many places: the FAQ for\ncomp.windows.x, blurbs and info packets from the vendors, user manuals\nfor the products themselves, conversations with sales representatives,\npersonal experience, comp.windows.x articles, etc.\n\nPlease forward any corrections or updates to the above address.\n\nThis file is also available by anonymous ftp at:\n export.lcs.mit.edu[18.24.0.12] in /contrib/XServers-NonUNIX.txt.Z\n ftp.uwp.edu[131.210.1.4] in /pub/misc/XServers-NonUNIX.txt\n msdos.archive.umich.edu[141.211.164.153] in\n msdos/info/XServers-NonUNIX.txt and msdos/info/xnonunix.zip\n\n\nX Servers for DOS:\n DESQview/X\n IBM X/Windows\n Micro X-DOS\n Micro X-lite\n PC DECWindows Motif V3.0\n PC X-Windows\n PC Xsight\n PC-XView\n SAGE 1280 Adapter and X Windows Display Server\n TeemTalk-X\n Vista-eXceed\n X Appeal\n Xinet X-Station\n Xnth\n XoftWare for DOS\n XoftWare for TIGA/DOS\n\nX Servers Microsoft Windows:\n DESQview/X\n eXcursion for Windows\n eXodus for MS Windows\n HCL-eXceed/W\n MicroX\n MultiView/X\n PC-XView\n Vista-eXceed\n X-One\n X11/AT\n XoftWare\n XVision\n\nX Servers OS/2:\n IBM X-Windows for OS/2\n\nX Servers Macintosh:\n eXodus\n MacX\n\nX Servers Amiga:\n UNKNOWN\n X Window System Version 11 Release for the Amiga Computer\n\nX Servers Atari:\n X/TOS/window/server and X/TOS/window/server/color\n==X-Servers==X-Servers==X-Servers==X-Servers==X-Servers==X-Servers==X-Servers===\n\n===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS==DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===\nDESQview/X\n==========\nVendor:\n Melinda\n Quarterdeck Office Systems, Inc.\n 150 Pico Boulevard\n Santa Monica, CA 90405\n TEL: (310)392-9851\n FAX: (310)399-3802\nPrice:\n $275\nLatest Version:\n 1.0\nCPU:\n 386SX or higher (286 version available)\nMemory:\n 4 Mbytes\nOperating System:\n DOS 3.0 or higher\n DR DOS 6 or higher\nMouse:\n optional - MS compatible pointing device\nGraphics:\n EGA, VGA, Super VGA, 8514/A, or 256 color DGIS\nEthernet Card:\n\nNetwork Software:\n\nDisk Space:\n 40 Mbyte hard drive\nFeatures:\n incorporates X into the DESQview multi-tasking DOS environment\n adds a graphical 3D look and feel to DESQview\n gives users a choice of window managers (look and feels)\n provides a growth path from character mode DOS to industry standard\n graphical user interfaces\n runs most regular DOS applications\n runs DOS Extended applications up to 4Gbytes\n can display DOS applications within graphical windows\n multitasks DOS applications and X Clients either locally or remotely\n provides a simple port of applications from other X systems to\n DESQview/X and vice versa\n gives developers a choice of application appearances, based on toolkit\n chosen\n supports toolkits that provide features required by developers such as\n push buttons, scrollbars, pop up dialogue boxes, etc.\n Adobe Type Manager for scalable fonts and scalable DOS windows\n===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS==DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===\n\n===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS==DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===\nIBM X/Windows\n=============\nVendor:\n IBM\n part #5765-025\nPrice:\n\nLatest Version:\n 2.1\nCPU:\n\nMemory:\n\nOperating System:\n DOS\nMouse:\n\nGraphics:\n\nEthernet Card:\n\nNetwork Software:\n\nDisk Space:\n\nFeatures:\n\n===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS==DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===\n\n===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS==DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===\nMicro X-DOS\n===========\nVendor:\n StarNet Communications Corporation\n 3073 Lawrence Expressway\n Santa Clara, CA 95051\n TEL: (408)739-0881\n FAX: (408)739-0936\n micro-x@starnet.com\nPrices:\n $345.00 1 unit\n $225.00 ea. 5 pack (greater discount for larger quantities)\n upgrades at 25% of original price\n educational discount of 10%\nLatest Version:\n 1.6.1\nCPU:\n 386, 486\nMemory:\n 2 Mbytes\nOperating System:\n DOS 3.1 or higher\nMouse:\n 2 or 3 button mouse with MS compatible driver\nGraphics:\n Ahead(V5000)\n ATI(18800)\n Everex(VP VGA)\n Genoa(6400)\n Paradise(900C00/11/30)\n STB(EM-16)\n Trident(8800CS)\n Tseng Labs(ET-3000-4000)\n Video7(HT208 V7VGA)\n Western Digital(900C00/11/30)\n ZyMOS(Poach51)\n VESA\n and others\nEthernet Card:\n 3Com/3C501/503/505/523\n 3Com EtherLink/MC\n Cabletron 1-2-3000\n Micom-Interlan NI5010-5210\n Western Digital WD80003E\n Novell NE-1000/2000\n National Semiconductor\n boards that have their own packet driver from manufacturer\nNetwork Software Included:\n StarNet TCP/IP (integrated)\n NCSA Telnet, ftp, lpr, etc.\n Packet Drivers (Clarkson/Crynwr)\nNetwork Software Supported:\n Beame & Whiteside - BW-TCP\n FTP Software - PC/TCP\n Sun - PC-NFS\nDisk Space:\n 3 Mbytes (9 Mbytes for all fonts)\n 5-1/4 1.2 Mbyte or 3-1/2 1.44 Mbyte needed\nFeatures:\n X11R4\n Intelligent installation program\n TCP/IP built-in\n Support Motif, OPEN LOOK, and DEC\n Supports Clarkson (Crynwr) packet drivers\n===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS==DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===\n\n===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS==DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===\nMicro X-lite\n============\nVendor:\n StarNet Communications Corporation\n 3073 Lawrence Expressway\n Santa Clara, CA 95051\n TEL: (408)739-0881\n FAX: (408)739-0936\n micro-x@starnet.com\nPrices:\n $75.00\nLatest Version:\n 1.5.3\nCPU:\n 286, 386, 486\nMemory:\n 640 Kbytes\nOperating System:\n DOS 3.1 or higher\nMouse:\n 2 or 3 button mouse with MS compatible driver\nGraphics:\n Ahead(V5000)\n ATI(18800)\n Everex(VP VGA)\n Genoa(6400)\n Paradise(900C00/11/30)\n STB(EM-16)\n Trident(8800CS)\n Tseng Labs(ET-3000-4000)\n Video7(HT208 V7VGA)\n Western Digital(900C00/11/30)\n ZyMOS(Poach51)\n VESA \n and others\nEthernet Card:\n 3Com/3C501/503/505/523\n 3Com EtherLink/MC\n Cabletron 1-2-3000\n Micom-Interlan NI5010-5210\n Western Digital WD80003E\n Novell NE-1000/2000\n National Semiconductor\n boards that have their own packet driver from manufacturer\nNetwork Software Included:\n StarNet TCP/IP (integrated)\n NCSA Telnet, ftp, lpr, ...\n Packet Drivers (Clarkson/Crynwr)\nNetwork Software Supported:\n Beame & Whiteside - BW-TCP\n FTP Software - PC/TCP\n Sun - PC-NFS\nDisk Space:\n 2 Mbytes\n 5-1/4 1.2 Mbyte or 3-1/2 1.44 Mbyte needed\nFeatures:\n X11R4\n Intelligent installation program\n TCP/IP built-in\n 8 clients on screen at time\n\tFixed font oriented (variable fonts available)\n Support Motif, OPEN LOOK, and DEC\n Supports Clarkson (Crynwr) packet drivers\n===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS==DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===\n\n===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS==DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===\nPC DECWindows Motif V3.0\n========================\nVendor:\n Dennis Giokas\n PC DECWindows Development\n Digital Equipment Corporation\n 30 Porter Rd.\n Littleton, MA 01460\nPrice:\n\nLatest Version:\n V3.0\nCPU:\n 286, 386\nMemory:\n up to 15 Mbytes\nOperating System:\n MS-DOS\nMouse:\n any pointing device with MS Mouse V6.0 or later interface\nGraphics:\n EGA (16 color and mono)\n MCGA\n VGA (16 color and mono)\n enhanced VGA (800x600 16 color and mono)\n 8514/A (1024x768 16/256 color)\n pseudo color visual\nEthernet Card:\n\nNetwork Software:\n TCP/IP and DECnet\nDisk Space:\n\nFeatures:\n X11 Release 4 server\n integrated virtual memory manager\n standard IBM-compatible keyboards and Digital's LK250\n Session manager client integrated into the server\n suspend session feature to run DOS commands\n Font Compiler for Adobe Bitmap Distribution files\n KEYSYM compiler to customize the keyboard for default KEYCODE to KEYSYM\n mappings; over 70 pre-defined keyboard mapping files\n Configuration utility to define hardware environment and user\n preferences\n supports DECnet and TCP/IP. Available from DEC.\n===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS==DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===\n\n===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS==DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===\nPC-XView\n========\nVendor:\n Network Computing Devices Inc.\n PC-Xdivision\n 9590 SW Gemini Drive\n Beaverton, OR 97005\n TEL: (800)800-9599, (503)641-2200\n FAX: (503)643-8642\n\n There are also 15 NCD technical and sales offices around the United\n States and other international offices\nPrice:\n PC-Xview for DOS $445.00 for 1 $1780.00 for 5\n Annual Maintenance $150.00 for 1 $450.00 for 5\n Update $125.00 for 1 $375.00 for 5\nLatest Version:\n PC-Xview for DOS Version 4.0\nCPU:\n 286, 386 (386 recommended)\nMemory:\n 1 Mbyte (2 Mbytes recommended)\nOperating System:\n DOS 3.2 or higher\nMouse:\n\nGraphics:\n CGA, EGA, VGA, SVGA, XGA, TIGA\n 8514/A Video Standard supported with extended memory\n Japanese Graphics Mode\n high resolution graphics boards: Compac, Dell, HP, NEC,\n Spectragraphics Squeegee, and over 50 other DGIS-based\nEthernet Card:\n over 35 Ethernet communications boards supported\nNetwork Software Needed:\n TCP/IP\n DECnet\nDisk Space:\n 5 Mbytes (7 Mbytes recommended)\nFeatures:\n UNIX application support for traditional applications and\n window managers such as Motif and OPEN LOOK\n off-loads the graphics processing of UNIX hosts\n hot-key to DOS\n access to local peripherals and DOS utilities\n easy and well-documented installation procedures\n pop-up control panel\n Motif compliant Local Window Manager\n ability to run in Windows PIF window\n hot-key between X and DOS (no longer have to exit) a TSR\n DPMI compatibility\n enhanced protocol tracing\n Support XRemote protocol\n===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS==DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===\n\n===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS==DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===\nPC X-Windows\n============\nVendor:\n Intelligent Decisions Inc.\n 536 Weddell Dr. Suite 2C\n Sunnyvale, CA 94089\n TEL: (408)734-3730\n FAX: (408)734-3634\nPrice:\n $295\nLatest Version:\n\nCPU:\n 286, 386, 486\nMemory:\n 1 Mbyte (more recommended for hi-res or lots of pixmaps)\nOperating System:\n DOS 3.1 of higher\nMouse:\n MS compatible mouse\nGraphics:\n VGA, some SVGA\nEthernet Card:\n\nNetwork Software:\n FTP Software's PC/TCP\n Wollongong's WIN/TCP\nDisk Space:\n 4 Mbytes on hard disk\nFeatures:\n Port of MIT X11R4 server\n Shape extension\n MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE\n XDMCP\n font compiler\n fonts supplied\n Motif, Open Look, DECWindows (VMS and Ultrix) demonstrated to work with\n this server at InterOp last year.\n===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS==DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===\n\n===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS==DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===\nPC Xsight\n=========\nVendor:\n PC XSight\n Locus Computing Corporation\n 9800 La Cienega Blvd.\n Inglewood, CA 90301\n TEL: (800)955-6287\n CA: (213)670-6500\n UK: +44 296 89911\nPrice:\n\nLatest Version:\n\nCPU:\n 8088, 8086, 286, 386\nMemory:\n 640 Kbytes base memory with 512 Kbytes available\n 896 Kbytes extended memory\nOperating System:\n MS/PC DOS 3.1 or later\nMouse:\n 2 or 3 button mouse and driver (3 button mouse recommend)\nGraphics:\n EGA, VGA, Hercules, or AT&T 6300\nEthernet Card:\n Excelan EXOS 205 or 205T\n 3COM 3C501\n Western Digital WD8003E\n Micom NI5210\n Acer Multitech 5220\nNetwork Software:\n\nDisk Space:\n 5-1/4-inch high-density or 3-1/2-inch diskette drive\n 1 Mbyte\nFeatures:\n\n===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS==DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===\n\n===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS==DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===\nSAGE 1280 Adapter and X Windows Display Server\n==============================================\nVendor:\n Sigma Designs, Inc.\n 46501 Landing Parkway\n Fremont, CA 94538\n TEL: (415)770-0100\n FAX: (415)770-0110\n TELEX: 17124\nPrice:\n\nLatest Version:\n\nCPU:\n 286, 386, 486\nMemory:\n\nOperating System:\n DOS 3.0 or higher or UNIX System V/386\nMouse:\n\nGraphics:\n high end multiscanning or fixed frequency 64 kHz monitors\nEthernet Card:\n\nNetwork Software:\n\nDisk Space:\n\nFeatures:\n menu-driven installation and configuration program\n 1280x1024 resolution\n TIGA-340, 8514/A AI Emulation\n CGA, MDA, Hercules, VGA pass-through emulation modes\n 256 colors displayable simultaneously from a palette of 16.7 million\n===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS==DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===\n\n===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS==DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===\nTeemTalk-X\n==========\nVendor:\n Pericom\n TEL: +44 (0908) 560022\nPrice:\n\nLatest Version:\n\nCPU:\n\nMemory:\n\nOperating System:\n\nMouse:\n\nGraphics:\n\nEthernet Card:\n\nNetwork Software:\n\nDisk Space:\n\nFeatures:\n for IBM clones allows toggling between X and DOS\n===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS==DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===\n\n===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS==DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===\nVista-eXceed\n============\nVendor:\n Control Data Corporation\n Vista Distributing Computing\n 9315 Largo Drive West\n Suite 250\n Landover, MD 20785\n TEL: (301)808-4270\nPrice:\n Vista-eXceed\n Vista-eXceed Plus\n Vista-eXceed Plus/8514A\nLatest Version:\n\nCPU:\n 286, 386, 486\nMemory:\n 640 Kbytes to 1 Mbyte for DOS server\n 1.64 Mbytes for Vista-eXceed Plus and Vista-eXceed Plus/8514A\nOperating System:\n MS-DOS or PC-DOS 3.0 or higher\nMouse:\n 2 or 3 button MS compatible mouse\nGraphics:\n EGA, VGA, or SVGA\n color or analog monochrome monitor\nEthernet Card:\n any supported by TCP/IP transports listed below\nNetwork Software:\n PC/TCP Network Software for DOS by FTP Software Inc.\n PC-NFS by Sun Microsystems, Inc.\n WIN/TCP for DOS by The Wallongong Group, Inc.\n Pathway Access for DOS by The Wallongong Group, Inc.\n LAN WorkPlace TCP/IP Transport System by Novell/Excelan\n 3+Open TCP by 3COM Corporation\n HP ARPA Services by Hewlett Packard Corporation\n Net-One TCP BNS/PC by Ungermann-Bass, Inc.\n BWNFS or Telnet Package by Beame & Whiteside Software Ltd.\nDisk Space:\n hard disk\nFeatures:\n can may up to 16 Mbytes available for client processing\n emulates a 3-button mouse with a 2-button mouse\n full interactive support for X font names and alias' schemes\n locally modify keyboard mapping\n===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS==DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===\n\n===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS==DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===\nX Appeal\n========\nVendor:\n Giovanni Novelli\n Xtreme s.a.s. - Livorno, Italy\n FAX: +39-586-502310\n xappeal@xtreme.sublink.org (before 1-1-93)\n xappeal@xtreme.it (after 1-1-93)\nPrice:\n $350 with quantity discounts:\n 23% off for 20 copies\n 39% off for 50 copies\n 51% off for 100 copies\n additional 30% discount for educational institutions\n demo copies available through anonymous ftp at garbo.uwasa.fi:\n pc/demo/xap13exe.zip (README and executables)\n pc/demo/xap10fon.zip (local server fonts)\n pc/connect/drivers.zip (packet drivers)\nLatest Version:\n 1.3\nCPU:\n 386SX or higher\nMemory:\n 2 Mbytes (4 Mbytes recommended)\nOperating System:\n MS-DOS 3.30 or later\nMouse:\n any pointing device with MS Mouse compatible driver\nGraphics:\n most SVGA boards in 256 color mode\n Ahead (V5000B)\n ATI (18800)\n Chips & Technologies (82C452)\n Genoa (6400)\n NCR (77C22E)\n Oak Technologies (OTI-067)\n Paradise (WD90C00)\n Trident (8900, 8900C)\n Tseng Labs (ET3000, ET4000)\n Western Digital (WD90C00)\nEthernet Card:\n any model compatible with packet drivers\nNetwork Software:\n TCP/IP included\nDisk Space:\n at least 2 Mbytes\nFeatures:\n full X11R5 Server implementation, including PEX and font server support\n screen painting exceeds 6000 Xstones in 1024x768 resolution (256 colors)\n on a 386/33 without 387\n support for all color classes (StaticGray, GrayScale, StaticColor,\n PseudoColor, TrueColor and DirectColor)\n run-time resolution switch and panning on a virtual screen\n emulates a 3-button mouse with a 2-button mouse\n fast cursor tracking\n full support for European keyboard layouts\n no memory limitation through use of virtual memory\n 32 bit protected mode DOS-extended application\n built-in TCP/IP support, using the packet driver for the Ethernet\n board (free packet driver collection included)\n interactive configuration utility\n X Display Manager Control Protocol support (for hosts running xdm)\n X-Authorization (MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1)\n shape Extension for non-rectangular windows\n font compiler and RGB database utilities\n X11 fonts provided, including fonts for Sun Open Windows and DECWindows\n UNIX application support for traditional applications and\n window managers such as Motif and OPEN LOOK\n built-in rcp/rsh server, to allow file transfers and the execution\n of useful DOS functions without leaving the X environment\n===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS==DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===\n\n===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS==DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===\nXinet X-Station\n===============\nVendor:\n Xinetron\n CA\n TEL: (408)727-5509\nPrice:\n\nLatest Version:\n\nCPU:\n 286, 386\nMemory:\n\nOperating System:\n\nMouse:\n\nGraphics:\n\nEthernet Card:\n\nNetwork Software:\n\nDisk Space:\n\nFeatures:\n up to 8 clients\n===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS==DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===\n\n===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS==DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===\nXnth\n====\nVendor:\n Jerry Norman\n Nth Graphics, Ltd.\n TEL: (800)624-7552\n this X server project has been abandoned\nPrice:\n\nCPU:\n 286, 386\nMemory:\n\nOperating System:\n DOS 3.3 or higher\nMouse:\n\nGraphics:\n\nEthernet Card:\n\nNetwork Software:\n TCP/IP\nDisk Space:\n\nFeatures:\n supports 1280X1024 or 1024X768 resolution monitors at 256 colors (out\n of 16M) with hardware acceleration for graphics and text\n operations\n===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS==DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===\n\n===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS==DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===\nXoftWare for DOS\n================\nVendor:\n AGE Logic, Inc.\n 9985 Pacific Heights Blvd.\n San Diego, CA 92121\n TEL: (619)455-8600, (619)565-7373\n FAX: (619)597-6030\n email: sales@age.com\n\n Bert Shure\n TEL: (619)455-8600(ext.104)\n email: bert@age.com, age!bert@ucsd.edu\nPrice:\n $395.00\n with TCP/IP $495.00\nLatest Version:\n\nCPU:\n 286, 386, 486\nMemory:\n 2 Mbytes extended\nOperating System:\n DOS 3.1 or higher\nMouse:\n 2 or 3 button mouse with MS compatible driver\nGraphics:\n EGA, VGA, SVGA or 8514\nEthernet Card:\n compatible with network software\nNetwork Software:\n 3Com 3+ Open TCP(1.2 of higher)\n DEC Pathworks TCP/IP (1.1 of higher)\n ftp PC/TCP (2.05 of higher)\n Novell LAN WorkPlace (4.01 of higher)\n Sun PC/NFS (3.5 or higher)\n Wollongong Pathway Access (2.05 or higher)\nDisk Space:\n 2 Mbytes\n 5-1/4 1.2 Mbyte or 3-1/2 1.44 Mbyte floppy needed\nFeatures:\n MIT compliant with AGE extensions\n Hotkeys to DOS and MS Windows\n Passive, telnet, rsh, rexec, or XDMCP startup modes\n Motif, OpenLook, and DECWindows support\n Virtual screen Support\n International keyboard support\n Full font library in SNF format\n BDF to SNF font compiler\n Complete documentation\n Support and update service\n===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS==DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===\n\n===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS==DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===\nXoftWare for TIGA/DOS\n=====================\nVendor:\n AGE Logic, Inc.\n 9985 Pacific Heights Blvd.\n San Diego, CA 92121\n TEL: (619)455-8600, (619)565-7373\n FAX: (619)597-6030\n email: sales@age.com\n\n Bert Shure\n TEL: (619)455-8600(ext.104)\n email: bert@age.com, age!bert@ucsd.edu\nPrice:\n $495.00\n with TCP/IP $595.00\nLatest Version:\n\nCPU:\n 286, 386, 486\nMemory:\n 512 Kbytes\nOperating System:\n DOS 3.0 or higher\nMouse:\n 2 or 3 button mouse with MS compatible driver\nGraphics:\n Texas Instruments TMS340-based graphics accelerator with TIGA 2.0 or\n higher whith 1Mbyte DRAM\nEthernet Card:\n compatible with network software\nNetwork Software:\n 3Com 3+ Open TCP(1.2 of higher)\n DEC Pathworks TCP/IP (1.1 of higher)\n ftp PC/TCP (2.05 of higher)\n Novell LAN WorkPlace (4.01 of higher)\n Sun PC/NFS (3.5 or higher)\n Wollongong Pathway Access (2.05 or higher)\nDisk Space:\n 2 Mbytes\n 5-1/4 1.2 Mbyte or 3-1/2 1.44 Mbyte floppy needed\nFeatures:\n MIT compliant with AGE extensions\n Hotkeys to DOS and MS Windows\n Passive, telnet, rsh, rexec, or XDMCP startup modes\n Motif, OpenLook, and DECWindows support\n Virtual screen Support\n International keyboard support\n Full font library in SNF format\n BDF to SNF font compiler\n Complete documentation\n Support and update service\n Optimized for TIGA graphics accelerators\n===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS==DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===DOS===\n\n===Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows===\nDESQview/X\n==========\nVendor:\n Melinda\n Quarterdeck Office Systems, Inc.\n 150 Pico Boulevard\n Santa Monica, CA 90405\n TEL: (310)392-9851\n FAX: (310)399-3802\nPrice:\n $275\nLatest Version:\n 1.0\nCPU:\n 386SX or higher (286 version available)\nMemory:\n 4 Mbytes recommended\nOperating System:\n PC or MS DOS 3.0 or higher\n DR DOS 6 or higher\nMouse:\n MS compatible pointing device\nGraphics:\n EGA\n VGA\n Super VGA\n 8514/A\n 256-color DGIS\n ATI 18800/28800(800x600)\n C&T 82c452(720x540)\n C&T 82c453(1024x768)\n Tseng ET3000(800x600)\n Tseng ET4000(1024x768)\n Genoa 6400(800x600)\n WD PVGA1a(640x480)\n WD90C00(640x480)\n WD90C11(800x600)\n some revisions of Headland VEGA(800x800) and Headland V7VGA(1024x768)\nEthernet Card:\n\nNetwork Software:\n\nDisk Space:\n 40 Mbyte hard drive\nFeatures:\n incorporates X into the DESQview multi-tasking DOS environment\n adds a graphical 3D look and feel to DESQview\n gives users a choice of window managers (look and feels)\n provides a growth path from character mode DOS to industry standard\n graphical user interfaces\n runs most regular DOS applications\n runs DOS Extended applications up to 4Gbytes\n can display DOS applications within graphical windows\n multitasks DOS applications and X Clients either locally or remotely\n provides a simple port of applications from other X systems to\n DESQview/X and vice versa\n gives developers a choice of application appearances, based on toolkit\n chosen\n supports toolkits that provide features required by developers such as\n push buttons, scrollbars, pop up dialogue boxes, etc.\n can run DOS text and MS Windows graphics programs locally and remotely\n Adobe Type Manager for scalable fonts and scalable DOS windows\n===Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows===\n\n===Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows===\neXcursion for Windows\n=====================\nVendor:\n Digital Equipment Corporation\n Maynard, Massachusetts\nPrice:\n\nLatest Version:\n 1.0\nCPU:\n 286, 386, 486\nMemory:\n 2 Mbytes\nOperating System:\n DOS\n MS Windows 3.0 or later\nMouse:\n MS Windows supported mouse\nGraphics:\n MS Windows supported card\nEthernet Card:\n \nNetwork Software:\n Decnet with PATHWORKS for DOS\n TCP/IP with PATHWORKS for DOS (TCP/IP)\n TCP/IP with PC/TCP from FTP Software, Inc.\n TCP/IP with 3Com TCP with Demand Protocol Architecture\nDisk Space:\n 7-15 Mbytes hard desk\n 3.5-720 Kbyte or 5.25-1.2 Mbyte floppy drive\nFeatures:\n Seperate application windows for each X applicatioon displayed by the X\n server \n EXcursion Setup utility for installing eXcursion under MS Windows\n Control Panes provides an easy way to start X applications and\n customize environment\n Online Help\n Ability to cut and paste text or graphics between X and MS Windows\n Ability to compile new fonts\n Ability to redefine keys on the keyboard\n Personal password security access to eXcursion\n Three button mouse emulation\n===Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows===\n\n===Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows===\neXodus for MS Windows\n=====================\nVendor:\n White Pine Software, Inc.\n 40 Simon Street, Suite 201\n Nashua, HN 03060-3043\n TEL: (603)886-9050\n FAX: (603)886-9051\n email: sdarling@wpine.com\n AppleLink: WHITEPINE\nPrice:\n $449\nLatest Version:\n\nCPU:\n 286, 386, 486\nMemory:\n 2 Mbytes (4 Mbytes recommended)\nOperating System:\n DOS\n MS Windows 3.0 or higher\nMouse:\n recommended\nGraphics:\n EGA, VGA, SVGA, DGIS\nEthernet Card:\n most cards\nNetwork Software:\n\nDisk Space:\n\nFeatures:\n X11R4\n color and monochrome X screen support including 24bit TrueColor\n backing store and save under options\n full XDMCP support\n access control support\n online help\n 3 button mouse emulation\n text and graphics transfers between MS Windows and Macintosh clipboards\n===Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows===\n\n===Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows===\nHCL-eXceed/W\n============\nVendor:\n Hummingbird Communications Ltd.\n 2900 John Street, Unit 4\n Markham, Ontario, Canada L3R 5G3\n TEL: (416)470-1203\n FAX: (416)470-1207\nPrice:\n $595 1 copy\n $536 2-4 copies\n $476 5-9 copies\n $417 10 or more copies\nLatest Version:\n\nCPU:\n 286, 386, 486\nMemory:\n 2 Mbytes or more recommended\nOperating System:\n DOS\n MS Windows version 3 (Standard and 386 Enhanced Modes)\nMouse:\n MS compatible pointing device\nGraphics:\n EGA, VGA, or VGA+\nEthernet Card:\n any compatible with the networking product you choose\nNetwork Software:\n\nDisk Space:\n\nFeatures:\n makes full use of 8514 and other high resolution graphics cards\n redesigned for MS Windows (not an implementation of MIT X)\n copy & paste between X-Windows and MS Windows\n interactive configuration utility\n full interactive support for font naming & alias schemes\n font compiler\n log file of host-generated messages\n Backing Store and Save Unders\n virtual screen support\n seven start-up methods\n full support for European keyboards\n font, host access & RGB databases loading\n X protocol trace & dissassembly functionality\n===Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows===\n\n===Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows===\nMicro X-WIN\n===========\nVendor:\n StarNet Communications\n 3073 Lawrence Expressway\n Santa Clara, CA 95051\n TEL: (408)739-0881\n FAX: (408)739-0936\n micro-x@starnet.com\nPrices:\n Micro X-WIN $425.00 1 unit\n $300.00 ea. 5-pack (greater discount for larger quantities)\n upgrades at 25% of original price\n educational discount of 10%\nLatest Version:\n 2.2.1 for X11 Release 5\nCPU:\n 386, 486\nMemory:\n 4 Mbytes\nOperating System:\n MS-DOS 3.1 or higher\n MS Windows 3.1 or higher\nMouse:\n 2 or 3 button with MS compatible driver\nGraphics:\n MS Windows supported cards\nEthernet Card:\n 3Com/3C501/503/505/523\n 3Com EtherLink/MC\n Cabletron 1-2-3000\n Micom-Interlan NI5010-5210\n Western Digital WD80003E\n Novell NE-1000/2000\n National Semiconductor\n boards that have their own packet driver from manufacturer\nNetwork Software Included:\n Lanera TCPOpen (WinSock compatible)\nNetwork Software Supported:\n FTP Software - PC/TCP\n Lanera - TCPOpen\n Sun - PC-NFS\n WinSock compatible TCP/IP stacks\nDisk Space:\n 5 Mbytes\n 5-1/4 1.2 Mbyte or 3-1/2 1.44 Mbyte needed\nFeatures:\n X11R5\n Integrated rsh/rexec with displayed results\n Auto start-up with XDMCP or rsh/rexec\n Easy additional session start-up\n Panning\n Supports Motif, OPEN LOOK, and DECWindows\n===Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows===\n\n===Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows===\nMultiView/X\n===========\nVendor:\n JSB Computer Systems Ltd.\n Cheshire House, Castle Street, Macclesfield\n Cheshire, England, SK11 6AF\n TEL: 0625 433618\n\n JSB Corporation\n 108 Whispering Pines Drive, Suite 115\n Scotts Valley, California 95066\n TEL: (408)438-8300, (800)359-3408\n FAX: (408)438-8360\nPrice:\n\nLatest Version:\n\nCPU:\n\nMemory:\n\nOperating System:\n DOS\n MS Windows\nMouse:\n\nGraphics:\n\nEthernet Card:\n\nNetwork Software:\n RS 232 direct connections, RS 232 modem connections, Atlantix Axcess,\n Beame & Whiteside TCP/IP, D-Link TCP/IP for DOS, FTP PC/TCP,\n HP ARPA Services for DOS, IBM AIX Access for DOS users,\n ICL Oslan (int 5b), Locus PCI, Locus TCP/IP for DOS,\n MS LAN Manager for UNIX, MS LAN Manager for UNIX V2.1, NCR Token Ring,\n Novell LAN WorkPlace for DOS, SCO Xenix-Net, Sun PC-NFS,\n Ungermann-Bass Net/One, Ungermann-BassNet/One NETCI (int6b),\n Wollongong PathWay Access DOS, Wollongong WIN/TCP for DOS,\n 3 Com 3+Open TCP\nDisk Space:\n\nFeatures:\n provides a Character Server for character applications\n emulation for DEC VT100, DEC VT220, DEC VT241, SCO UNIX/Xenix Console,\n X/Open ANSI, INTERACTIVE UNIX Console, AT&T UNIX Console\n automatically invokes the X server when an X client is selected\n passive, telnet, rsh, rexec, and XDMCP startup modes supported\n full X11R4 font library provided in standard Windows format\n BDF to Windows compiler\n copy and paste of text available\n single iconic desktop\n===Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows===\n\n===Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows===\nPC-XView\n========\nVendor:\n Network Computing Devices Inc.\n PC-Xdivision\n 9590 SW Gemini Drive\n Beaverton, OR 97005\n TEL: (800)800-9599, (503)641-2200\n FAX: (503)643-8642\n\n There are also 15 NCD technical and sales offices around the United\n States and other international offices\nPrice:\n PC-Xview for Windows $445.00 for 1 $1780.00 for 5\n Annual Maintenance $150.00 for 1 $450.00 for 5\n Update $125.00 for 1 $375.00 for 5\nLatest Version:\n 3.1\nCPU:\n 286, 386 (386 recommended)\nMemory:\n 2 Mbytes (4 Mbytes recommended)\nOperating System:\n MS-DOS or PC-DOS 3.0 or higher\n MS Windows 3.0/3.1 or Windows NT\nMouse:\n recommended but not needed\nGraphics:\n any compatible with MS Windows\nEthernet Card:\n\nNetwork Software Needed:\n TCP/IP\n DECnet\nDisk Space:\n 7 Mbytes (10 Mbytes recommended)\nFeatures:\n runs MS Windows applications alongside X clients\n cut and paste between X clients and MS Windows\n applications using the Windows clipboard\n full support of X11R4 features, including the Shape extension\n off-loads graphics processing from host computers\n runs in both standard and enhanced modes of MS Windows\n manages X clients with a standard remote window manager or\n with MS Windows\n full X11 fonts provided, including fonts for Sun Open Windows\n and DECWindows\n Windows-based compiler that converts Bitmap Description Format\n BDF fonts to MS Windows format(FON) fonts\n Windows-based file transfer program\n prints files from a remote host on your local printer\n built-in client starter\n Windows-based installation and configuration\n DDL support for network interfaces\n easy installation procedures\n X Display Manager Control Protocol(XDMCP) support\n support for multiple TCP/IP network packages\n comprehensive and well organized User's guide\n Graphics Cut & Paste\n Virtual Screen support\n support the XRemote protocol (developed by NCD)\n===Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows===\n\n===Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows===\nVista-eXceed\n============\nVendor:\n Control Data Corporation\n Vista Distributing Computing\n 9315 Largo Drive West\n Suite 250\n Landover, MD 20785\n TEL: (301)808-4270\nPrice:\n Vista-eXceed/W\nLatest Version:\n\nCPU:\n 286, 386, 486\nMemory:\n 2 Mbytes for MS Windows server\nOperating System:\n DOS 3.0 or higher\n MS Windows 3.0\nMouse:\n 2 or 3 button MS compatible mouse\n MS Windows supported mouse\nGraphics:\n EGA, VGA, or SVGA\n any supported by MS Windows\nEthernet Card:\n any supported by TCP/IP transports listed below\nNetwork Software:\n PC/TCP Network Software for DOS by FTP Software Inc.\n PC-NFS by Sun Microsystems, Inc.\n WIN/TCP for DOS by The Wallongong Group, Inc.\n Pathway Access for DOS by The Wallongong Group, Inc.\n LAN WorkPlace TCP/IP Transport System by Novell/Excelan\n 3+Open TCP by 3COM Corporation\n HP ARPA Services by Hewlett Packard Corporation\n Net-One TCP BNS/PC by Ungermann-Bass, Inc.\n BWNFS or Telnet Package by Beame & Whiteside Software Ltd.\nDisk Space:\n hard disk\nFeatures:\n can may up to 16 Mbytes available for client processing\n emulates a 3-button mouse with a 2-button mouse\n full interactive support for X font names and alias' schemes\n locally modify keyboard mapping\n===Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows===\n\n===Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows===\nX11/AT\n======\nVendor:\n Intergrated Inference Machines, Inc.\n Computer Products Division\n 1468 East Katella Avenue\n Anaheim, CA 92805-9806\n TEL: (714)978-6201 and (714)978-6776\n FAX: (714)939-0746\nPrice:\n\nLatest Version:\n\nCPU:\n 286, 386, 486\nMemory:\n 640 Kbytes base memory\n 2 Mbytes extended memory\nOperating System:\n MS-DOS 3.1 or later\n MS Windows 3.0 or later\nMouse:\n\nGraphics:\n any graphics card and that supports MS Windows - EGA or VGA resolution,\n or better, are recommended\n CGA (Color Graphics Adapter)\n COMPAQ Portable III or Portable 386 plasma display\n EGA with high-resolution color display\n EGA whith low-resolution color display\n Hercules with high-resolution monochrome display\n IBM 8514/A display\n Olivetti monochrome or PVC display\n Olivetti OEC display\n WYSE high resolution monochrome\n Moniterm Viking monochrome\n VGA (Video Graphics Array)\nEthernet Card:\n also compatible with Excelan, 3COM, Ungermann Bass, Western Digital,\n Tiara, IIM's X/PAC, and others\nNetwork Software:\n Either Excelan's TCP/IP Driver Set or FTP Inc. PC/TCP Driver Set\n (not included with X11/AT)\nDisk Space:\n at least 2.5 Mbytes of storage capacity available for X11/AT software,\n excluding optional X fonts; to use all X fonts supplied with X11/AT,\n a total of 5.5 Mbytes is required\nFeatures:\n Concurrent MS-DOS & X Windows operation\n Concurrent X Windows & Telnet operation\n Cut & Paste utility, FTP utility\n Font compiler for user-developed fonts\n Telnet and FTP utilities included\n compatible with the following FTP software programs, when not operated\n under MS Windows:\n ftp, the file transfer protocol client\n ftpsev, the file transfer protocol server\n interdrive, the network file system (NFS)\n ping, a network test\n tnvt, the telnet virtual terminal client\n===Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows===\n\n===Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows===\nX-One\n=====\nVendor:\n Grafpoint\n 1485 Saratoga Avenue\n San Jose, CA 95129\n TEL: (800)426-2230 7:30-5:00 PST, (408)466-1919\n FAX: (408)446-0666\n uunet!grafpnt!sales\nPrice:\n (free demo copies)\nLatest Version:\n\nCPU:\n 386, 486\nMemory:\n 2 Mbytes\nOperating System:\n DOS 3.1 or higher\n MS Windows\nMouse:\n 2 or 3 button mouse\nGraphics:\n VGA\n Super VGA\n 8514A\n TIGA\n VGA boards with S3 chip set\nEthernet Card:\n\nNetwork Software:\n Grafpoint's TCP/IP included\nDisk Space:\n\nFeatures:\n X11R4\n on-screen setup\n builtin TCP/IP\n supports local clients such as telnet/vt100 window, a setup window,\n an rsh window, a local window manager\n DOS and Windows versions in one product\n hot key to DOS\n 90 days of telephone technical support\n===Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows===\n\n===Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows===\nXVision\n=======\nVendor:\n VisionWare Limited White Pine is re-badging XVision as\n 57 Cardigan Lane eXodus for Windows\n Leeds LS4 2LE 40 Simon Street, Suite 201\n United Kingdom Nashua, HN 03060-3043\n TEL: (0532) 788858 TEL: (603)886-9050\n +44 532 788858 FAX: (603)886-9051\n FAX: (0532) 304676 sdarling@wpine.com\n +44 532 304676 AppleLink: WHITEPINE\n vware@visionware.co.uk \nPrice:\n $449.00 1 users $9100.00 30 users\n $1800.00 5 users $11850.00 40 users\n $3600.00 10 users $14600.00 50 users\n $6350.00 20 users educational discounts available\n adding a user where at least 10 are installed - $275.00\n XRemote support per PC: bundled - $95.00 upgrade - $150.00\n full documentation - $60.00 evaluation copy - $60.00\nLatest Version:\n 4.1\nCPU:\n 286, 386, 486\nMemory:\n 2 Mbytes (4 Mbytes recommended)\nOperating System:\n DOS 3.0 or later\n MS Windows 3.0 or later\nMouse:\n recommended but not required\nGraphics:\n MS Windows compatible graphics\nEthernet Card:\n\nNetwork Software:\n FTP PC/TCP\n Excelan LAN Workplace for DOS\n Locus TCP/IP for DOS\n Ungermann Bass NET/ONE TCP-PC\n Wollongong WIN/TCP for DOS\n Beame & Whiteside TCP/IP\n Sun PC-NFS\n HP LAN Manager (ARPA Services for DOS)\n 3Com 3+ Open\nDisk Space:\n 5-1/4-inch high-density or 3-1/2-inch high-density\nFeatures:\n copy and paste between X and MS Windows\n use a host window manager or allow MS Windows to control X clients\n support for all color classes (StaticGray, GrayScale, StaticColor,\n PseudoColor, TrueColor and DirectColor)\n several user options for performance enhancement\n X11 Release 5 server\n fonts and server extensions including XDMCP\n ICCCM compliant\n X clients may also use MS Windows fonts\n easy configuration of the system via dialog boxes\n provides the functionality of a three-button mouse\n support for all international keyboards supported by Windows\n host access control\n network-aware setup and on-line help\n iconic control panel for configuring XVision\n Dynamic Server Optimizations (XVision runs tests on the PC at install\n time to see how best to draw to the display)\n support for: NCD XRemote, DECnet, SHAPE extension, 24-bit color,\n MS Windows font managers, all color classes, rsh, rexec\n===Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows===\n\n===Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows===\nXoftWare\n========\nVendor:\n AGE Logic, Inc.\n 9985 Pacific Heights Blvd.\n San Diego, CA 92121\n TEL: (619)455-8600, (619)565-7373\n FAX: (619)597-6030\n email: sales@age.com\n\n Bert Shure\n TEL: (619)455-8600(ext.104)\n email: bert@age.com, age!bert@ucsd.edu\nPrice:\n $495.00\n with TCP/IP $595.00\nLatest Version:\n\nCPU:\n 386, 486\nMemory:\n 2 Mbytes extended\nOperating System:\n DOS 3.1 or higher\n Windows 3.0 or higher\nMouse:\n MS Windows compatible mouse\nGraphics:\n card with MS Windows driver\nEthernet Card:\n\nNetwork Software:\n Beame & Whiteside TCP/IP (2.2 or higher)\n ftp PC/TCP (2.05 of higher)\n DEC Pathworks (4.0 or higher)\n HP ARPA Services (2.1 or higher)\n Novell LAN WorkPlace (4.01 or higher)\n Sun PC/NFS (3.5 or higher)\n Ungermann-Bass Net/One TCP (16.5 or higher)\n Wollongong Pathway Access (4.1.1 or higher)\n Wollongong WIN/TCP (1.1 or higher)\n 3Com 3+ Open TCP (1.2 or higher)\nDisk Space:\n 2 Mbytes\n 5-1/4 1.2 Mbyte or 3-1/2 1.44 Mbyte floppy needed\nFeatures:\n MIT compliant with AGE extensions\n Context Sensitive on-line help system\n Cut and paste between X and MS Windows\n Start X applications with MS Windows icons\n Single and multiple window modes\n MS Window manager used with X applications\n Virtual screen up to 32,767 by 32,767\n Passive, telnet, rsh, rexec, and XDMCP startup modes\n Backing store and save unders\n Motif, OpenLook, and DECWindows support\n Full font library in FON format\n BDF to MS Windows FON font compiler\n Log file optionally saves system messages\n Tutorial on the X Window System\n===Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows==Microsoft-Windows===\n\n==OS/2==OS/2==OS/2==OS/2==OS/2==OS/2==OS/2==OS/2==OS/2==OS/2==OS/2==OS/2==OS/2==\nIBM X-Windows for OS/2\n======================\nVendor:\n IBM Solutions Center\n Voice: 1-800-IBM-CALL\n FAX: 1-303-440-1639\nPrice:\n $150 plus $200 for IBM TCP/IP for OS/2 (required)\nLatest Version:\n Version 1.2.1\n Part Number 02G6980 (X-Windows)\n 02G6968 (TCP/IP)\nCPU:\n 386SX or higher\nMemory:\n 6 Mbytes recommended (4 minimum)\nOperating System:\n IBM OS/2 2.0 or higher\nMouse:\n OS/2 compatible pointing device\nGraphics:\n EGA, VGA, Super VGA, 8514/A, XGA, or other OS/2 supported card\nEthernet Card:\n compatible with OS/2 (NDIS)\nNetwork Software:\n IBM TCP/IP (required)\nDisk Space:\n 80 Mbyte hard drive\nFeatures:\n incorporates X into the OS/2 advanced PC operating system\n provides full X11R4 server, X font library, X font compiler,\n X client utilities\n runs as another object on the WorkPlace Shell (WPS) desktop\n cut and paste between OS/2, DOS, and Windows applications running under\n OS/2 full TCP/IP implementation including ftp, telnet, lamail,\n ping, finger, SLIP, rsh, remote printing, BOOTP, VT100/220, and\n many more\n other modules available, including NFS, Programmer's Toolkit (includes\n Kerberos, RPC, DPI, NCS, ftp API, sockets API, Resolver API),\n and more\n==OS/2==OS/2==OS/2==OS/2==OS/2==OS/2==OS/2==OS/2==OS/2==OS/2==OS/2==OS/2==OS/2==\n\n=Macintosh=Macintosh=Macintosh=Macintosh=Macintosh=Macintosh=Macintosh=Macintosh\neXodus\n======\nVendor:\n White Pine Software, Inc.\n 40 Simon Street, Suite 201\n Nashua, HN 03060-3043\n TEL: (603)886-9050\n FAX: (603)886-9051\n email: sdarling@wpine.com\n AppleLink: WHITEPINE\nPrice:\n $295\nLatest Version:\n 3.0\nCPU:\n all Macintosh computers\n eXodus II runs on Macintosh computers with a 68020 or 68030 processor\n and a floating point co-processor\nMemory:\n 2 Mbytes\nOperating System:\n version 6.0 or later\n version 6.0.3 or later if you plan to use Communications Toolbox for\n network connections\nMouse:\n\nGraphics:\n\nEthernet Card:\n\nNetwork Software:\n TCP/IP - MacTCP by Apple Computer, Inc. (part of CommSolutions)\n TCP/IP - TCPort/LAN Workplace by Novell, Inc. (formerly TCPort/Host\n Access)\n DECnet - TSSnet by Thursby Software Systems, Inc. (a special version\n is distributed as part of CommSolutions)\n DECnet - CommUnity-Mac distributed by Everex, Inc.\n DECnet - DECnet for Macintosh (part of PATHWORKS by Digital Equipment\n Corporation)\n ADSP - PATHWORKS distributed by Digital Equipment Corporation\n AppleTalk\nDisk Space:\n\nFeatures:\n supports MultiFinder\n under A/UX, clients and server run on the Macintosh\n under Macintosh Operating System, clients run on another computer\n conforms to the Macintosh Human Interface Guidelines\n user standard Macintosh pull-down menus\n functions as a Macintosh program under the Macintosh Operating System\n handles Macintosh events\n can use normal Macintosh environment\n=Macintosh=Macintosh=Macintosh=Macintosh=Macintosh=Macintosh=Macintosh=Macintosh\n\n=Macintosh=Macintosh=Macintosh=Macintosh=Macintosh=Macintosh=Macintosh=Macintosh\nMacX\n====\nVendor:\n Apple Computer, Inc.\n Cupertino, CA 95014\n TEL: (408)996-1010\n TLX: 171-576\n or any Apple dealer (BusinessLand,MicroAGE, etc.)\nPrice:\n MacX Order No. M0108LL/C ??\n MacX Manual Set Order No. M0602LL/B ??\n MacX 1.1.7 Update Product Order No. M1197LL/A ??\n Mac X and X11 Site License Order No. M0749LL/C ??\nLatest Version:\n 1.2\nCPU:\n any Macintosh\nMemory:\n 2 Mbytes\nOperating System:\n system software 6.0.5 or later\nMouse:\n\nGraphics:\n 1-bit and 8-bit graphics\nEthernet Card:\n\nNetwork Software:\n LocalTalk, Ethernet\nDisk Space:\n at least two floppy disks for 6.0.5 or later\n 3.5 Mbytes hard disk tor 7.0\nFeatures:\n X11 release 4 server\n ICCCM-compatible cut and paste of text AND graphics between the\n Macintosh and X11\n SHAPE extension (including SHAPED windows on the Macintosh desktop)\n optional built-in ICCCM-compliant window manager\n built-in BDF font compiler\n built-in standard colormaps\n built-in window managers\n support for system software version 7.0\n support for multiple monitors\n copy and paste text and graphics\n=Macintosh=Macintosh=Macintosh=Macintosh=Macintosh=Macintosh=Macintosh=Macintosh\n\n=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga==\nUNKNOWN\n========\nVendor:\n\nPrice:\n\nLatest Version:\n\nCPU:\n\nMemory:\n\nOperating System:\n\nMouse:\n\nGraphics:\n\nEthernet Card:\n\nNetwork Software:\n\nDisk Space:\n\nFeatures:\n Amiga 3000 machines offer an X server and OPEN LOOK tools and libraries\n on a full SVR4 implementation\n=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga==\n\n=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga==\nX Window System Version 11 Release for the Amiga Computer\n=========================================================\nVendor:\n GfxBase, Inc.\n Dale Luck\n 1881 Ellwell Drive\n Milpitas, CA 95035\n TEL: (408)262-1469\n FAX: (408)262-8276\n Usenet: boing!dale\n Bix: duck\n amiga!boing!dale@bloom-beacon.mit.edu\nPrice:\n $395.00 ($90.00 yearly maintenance fee)\nLatest Version:\n 4.1\nCPU:\n AmigaDos computer:\n A1000\n A2000\n A2500\n A3000\n A3000T\n A4000\n A500\n A600\nMemory:\n 1 Mbyte for Server and 640x400 2-color display\n more RAM required for local clients\nOperating System:\n AmigaDOS Operating System V1.3 or later\nMouse:\n Amiga 2 button mouse, or optical 3 button mouse, tablet, trackball,\n or International keyboard\nGraphics:\n NTSC to 1440x482(60hz), PAL(1440x568 50 hz)\n Overscan, genlock and interlace supported\n A2024/Viking 1 1024x8000(60hz), 1024x1024(50hz)\n Super Screens to 2560x2560 scrollable on smaller display\n Productivity screen - 640x480 60hz noninterlaced (640x960 interlaces)\n Two colors out of a palette of 4096 can be selected. Cursor has two\n separately controlled colors\n Color server: 2,4,8,16,32 colors from 4096. A2024/Viking 1 - 4 gray\n scales. Some resolutions restricted\n GDA1 640x480, 800x600, 1024x800 noninterlaced 256/16M\n Ameristar 1600GX 1280x1024, 1600x1280 noninterlaced 256/16M\nEthernet Card:\n Commodore A2065\nNetwork Software:\n Commodore TCP/IP or Syndesis DECnet for ethernet and serial\n connections, SANA for local\nDisk Space:\n 7-14 Mbytes\nFeatures:\n contains X11R4 clients, fonts, etc.\n Amiga Xpr uses the standard Amiga printer device technology which\n supports more that 50 different types of printers. Black and\n White of Color\n Xamiga R4 monochrome and color servers\n optional programmer's toolkit includes the header files, libraries,\n and sample programs\n Optional mwm window manager\n Optional toolkits/widgets Motif, XView, HP\n=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga=Amiga==\n\n=Atari=Atari=Atari=Atari=Atari=Atari=Atari=Atari=Atari=Atari=Atari=Atari=Atari==\nX/TOS/window/server and X/TOS/window/server/color\n=================================================\nVendor:\n X/software Michael Gehret\n X/TOS division\n Marktstrasse 8\n W-8944 Groenenbach\n Germany\n TEL: +49 8334 1411\n FAX: +49 8334 6245\n email: xtosinfo@xsoft.uucp\nPrice:\n X/TOS/window/server (for all TOS computers) DM 1,098.00\n X/TOS/window/server/color (for all TOS computers) DM 1,498.00\n option 030 (for 68030 or 68040 processors only) DM 98.00\n X/TOS/window/server/color option 030 and option PEX T.B.A.\n overseas order handling DM 100.00\n none-EC European order handling DM 50.00\nLatest Version:\n 502.*\nCPU:\n Atari Mega ST, STE, TT\n 68000 to 68040\nMemory:\n 2 Mbytes (4 Mbytes recommended)\nOperating System:\n TOS 1.4 or higher\nMouse:\n Atari mouse\nGraphics:\n X/TOS/window/server:\n monochrome 640x400x1,\n monochrome 1280x960x1 (TT, SM194)\n X/TOS/window/server/color:\n monochrome 640x400x1,\n monochrome 1280x960x1 (TT, SM194)\n color 320x200x4\n color 640x200x2\n color 640x480x4\n color 320x480x8\nEthernet Card:\n Atari Card (Mega or VME bus)\n Riebl/Wacker (Mega or VME bus)\n--------------------------------- End Enclosure -----------------------------\n____________________________________________________________________________", "The first problem was the sound. I tried the M0, but then even the logon was\nmuted. I don't want that. Any other suggestions for that hissing?\n\nThe second is really strange. First, I kept mentioning that FC slowed down\nall the time and took too long. Well I just logged on with extensions off and\nI didn't have any slowdown. Also, last time I was online I quit (which\nusually disconnects and quits). It disconnected but it wouldn't quit. I had\nto force quit, and then when I launched FC again it said the modem port was in\nuse. This is really strange. I thought it might have to do with fax\nsoftware. Or the restart could have reset the modem port (a more likely\nexplanation). So, any suggestions?\n\n-David", "==============================================================================\nHas anyone created any interesting animations using Dmorph\nI seem to be unable to create anything that looks remotely\nrealistic although this is probably due to the crappy GIF's\nat I am using (One of Captain Kirk and One of Spock), i'm a\nbit of a 'Trekker'. What are the best type of pictures to use.\nthanks........\n A.Situnayake\n", "I suggest that misc.consumer.house is a better forum for this, several\nelectricians, a huge FAQ that adresses ALL the issues raised here.\n\n-- ", "I'm interested in simulating reverse (or negative) color video\nmathematically. What is the transform? Is it a simple\nreversal of the hue value in the HSV color space? Is it\na manipulation in the YUV color space? How is it related\nto solarization?\n\nIf you want to see something truly wild, turn on the\nreverse video effect on a camcorder so equipped,\nand point it at the monitor. This creates a chaotic\ndynamical system whose phase space is continuous along\nrotation, zoom, focus, etc. Very very surprising and \nlovely. I'd like to write a simulation of this effect\nwithout analog grunge. Thanks for any info you may have.\n\nPlease e-mail any info to me. I'll post a summary.\n\nThanks,\n\n-- ", "I have a spare Fluke 8062A. This is a true RMS digital meter with\n4.5 digit display. It's in \"average\" condition (been used) but \nworks fine - which is what Fluke's are all about. BTW - according\nto the fellow who designed these meters, they can be converted to 8060A\nfunction by clipping a jumper, and adding the 2 extra switches..\nLike I said $115 seems fair - these sell for $300+ new.\n\n", "WGT is the WordUp Graphics Toolkit, designed by yours truly and my\nco-programmer (and brother) Chris Egerter. It is a Turbo/Borland C++ graphics\nlibrary for programming in 320*200*256 VGA. We are currently producing it as\nshareware, but in a few years it may be a commercial product (excuse typos,\nthere's no backspace on this terminal). Features include:\n\n- loading and saving bit-images (called blocks from herein)\n- flipping, resizing and warping blocks\n- loading and saving palette, fading, several in memory at once\n- graphics primitives such as line, circle, bar, rectangle\n- region fill (not the usually useless floodfill)\n- sprites (animated bitmaps), up to 200 onscreen at once\n- joystick/mouse support\n- SB support (VOC and CMF)\n- tile-based game creation using 16*16 pixel tiles to create\n a 320*200 tile map (or game world) like in Duke Nuke 'Em\n- number of sprites increased to 1000\n- Professional Sprite Creator utility and Map Maker\n- routines to simplify scrolling games using maps, etc\n- FLI playing routines, sprites can be animated over the FLI while playing\n- PCX support, soon GIF\n- EMS/XMS coming soon as well\n\nLeave E-mail to Barry Egerter at egerter@obelix.gaul.csd.uwo.ca\n\nFiles available on: (use mget wgt*.zip)\n\nSIMTEL20 and mirrors pd1:\n\nnic.funet.fi pub/msdos/games/programming", "I have one original SAM (Symantec AntiVirus for Macintosh) V3.0 for sale.\n\nIt comes with three program discs and one user manual. Will work with 800K and 1.4MB disc drives.\n\nSelling for $17.90 (make an offer) which includes postage.\n\nRespond to:", "I thought I read that FastMicro was having some financial difficulties,\nis this true? I can't seem to find the posting about it and was wondering\nif someone can confirm this.", "\nDAMN RIGHT it doesn't! Ohm's come from the greek letter omega, which\nis used for resistance/impedance.\n\nOf course, the original poster MAY have been being facetious (let's hope\nso).", "Hello,\n\nI am looking for someone to help me with the proceedure for remote login, via\nmodem not ethernet, to our new silicon graphics iris machines. I can log in to\nthem only as a vt100 terminal regardless of what I am emulating on my end. I\nhave communication software, kermit, which supports tek 401x and vt102\nemulation. The x windows manual lists XTERM as the appropriate command to\nchange the terminal type. When I try it the reponse is 'unable to open window'\n\nThanx in advance\n\nKeith Grider", "someone gave me this brand new card. I am thinking to sell it cuz\nI don't need it. but the problem is that i don't even know what this\nis.\nthis was made by Forte Communications Co. it has 2 board combined\ntogether (looks wierd to me) and has 2 9 pin ports (one male and one\nfemale), and also has a round port (like BNC, not sure).\nthis was made in 1986, and has a \"fortegraph emulator & diagnostic\" disk\nwith it.\n\nhas anyone here ever seen this or known what this is.\n\nappreciate your help in advance.", "I haven't seen much info about how to add an extra internal disk to a\nmac. We would like to try it, and I wonder if someone had some good\nadvice.\n\nWe have a Mac IIcx with the original internal Quantum 40MB hard disk,\nand an unusable floppy drive. We also have a new spare Connor 40MB\ndisk which we would like to use. The idea is to replace the broken\nfloppy drive with the new hard disk, but there seems to be some\nproblems:\n\nThe internal SCSI cable and power cable inside the cx has only\nconnectors for one single hard disk drive.\n\nIf I made a ribbon cable and a power cable with three connectors each\n(1 for motherboard, 1 for each of the 2 disks), would it work?\n\nIs the IIcx able to supply the extra power to the extra disk?\n\nWhat about terminators? I suppose that i should remove the resistor\npacks from the disk that is closest to the motherboard, but leave them\ninstalled in the other disk.\n\nThe SCSI ID jumpers should also be changed so that the new disk gets\nID #1. The old one should have ID #0.\n\nIt is no problem for us to remove the floppy drive, as we have an\nexternal floppy that we can use if it won't boot of the hard disk.\n\nThank you!\n", "I am new to this newsgroup so I apologise if this is not the appropriate\nforum to ask this question. I am looking for the address of Noise Cancellation\nTechnologies. It is rather important. So if you can help me in this regard,\nplease do. Thank you.\n\n\n\n \n\n\n", "\nFirst, it will not pass a National Electrical code inspection.\nSecondly, The neutral wire is current carrying and the ground wire\nshouldn't be, or only during a fault condition.\n\nThe reason the neutral and ground are tied together in the panel is the\ntranformer on the power pole has a grounded center-tap secondary, with the\ngrounded center-tap the neutral. This gives 120v to neutral(ground) from\neach side of the transformer and 240v across the transformer. So in effect\nthe neutral and ground should be at the same potential. \n\n------------------------------------------------------------------\nMark E. Kilpela email mkilpela@mtu.edu\nMichigan Technological University\nSchool of Technology", ": I have notice a lot of electronics questions by people who are obviously not \n: \"tuned-in\" to electronics. Many of them have rather simple answers, and \n: many of them require a circuit diagram.\n\n: Rather than muck up the network, why don't you write to me, send a self-\n: addressed, stamped envelop, and I'll answer your questions, if I can.\n\n: W. L. Willis, P. E.\n: 114 Fern Circle\n: Clemson, SC 29631\n\nBecause the network is quicker, easier, and free (at least to me).\n\n-- \n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nChristopher Wolf Electrical Engineer cmwolf@mtu.edu", "\nYes, Xhibition is for the X Window System. The X Window System Conference \nremains the largest and most complete conference devoted to X. Nineteen full\nand half day tutorials and thirty-six technical sessions over three days\nprovide huge amounts of information for X application developers. Add vendor\nexhibits and a Product Presentation track to provide information on what\nfolks can purchase today, and you have a complete show focused on X11.\n\nSpeakers at Xhibition 93 include: \n\n Bob Schiefler, Lu Abel, Mark Ackerman, Paul Asente, Doug Blewett, \n Donna Converse, Jim Fulton, Oliver Jones, Keith Packard, Ralph Swick, \n Doug Young, and many others.\n\nXhibition is growing (fortunately for us:-) and we have added some additional\nconferences. Surveys that we have given have indicated additional topics of\ninterest. These include: object oriented technologies such as the Object\nManagement Group's ORB and CORBA; C++ as it applies to X; client server\ntechnologies such as DCE; threads; databases- object oriented and relational;\nand (not surprisingly when you look at the audience) Windows NT.\n\nWith the bulk of the Xhibition audience (and the UNIX community) developing\napplications for in-house or custom use, a new 32-bit operating system from a\nplayer as large as Microsoft needs to be evaluated. With MS Windows on so many\ndesktops, and the price of computing power dropping, its successor needs to be\nevaluated. As corporations begin to look at NT, so must their developers and\nsuppliers.\n\nThe mission of the Xhibition technical conferences is to provide information\nto the application developer and to the technology planner. The NT Conference\nat Xhibition is designed to do just that. We worked with Microsoft to provide\nthe *only* conference this year specifically designed to show X and UNIX\ndevelopers the capabilities of Windows and NT. If you aren't sure that NT has\nwhat you need for your application development or systems deployment, this is\nthe place to find out. Ask the folks from Microsoft, get them to show you\nwhat you need. Conference attendees will receive NT Software Development\nKits- to bang on, evaluate, and generally to see for yourself.\n\nI hope this doesn't sound like an NT commercial (it should sound like an\nXhibition commercial:-). I just want to reiterate that the Xhibition audience\nis growing and Xhibition is growing along with it. The industry is a\nconfusing place at the moment with UNIX, COSE, NT, DCE, CORBA, and all of\nthe other acronyms sprouting up. Xhibition can help sort out the confusion.\n\n\n-Aub Harden\n Technical Program Manager\n harden@ics.com\n\n\n X H I B I T I O N The Conference and Trade\n ****** ***** Show for Corporate\n * * * Software Development\n ****** *** \n * * 201 Broadway\n *** ***** Cambridge, MA 02139\n\n Windows on Distributed Computing\n\n June 7 - 11, San Jose, CA\n\n xhibit@ics.com uunet!ics.com!xhibit\n Voice: (617) 621-0060 Fax: (617) 621-9555", "Boy, this will be embarassing if it is trivial or an FAQ:\n\nGiven 4 points (non coplanar), how does one find the sphere, that is,\ncenter and radius, exactly fitting those points? I know how to do it\nfor a circle (from 3 points), but do not immediately see a \nstraightforward way to do it in 3-D. I have checked some\ngeometry books, Graphics Gems, and Farin, but am still at a loss?\nPlease have mercy on me and provide the solution? \n\nThanks,\nEd\n\n", "I've got an IN-2000 working in a (wimpy) 386SX20 presently. In a few\nmonths I'm getting a 486 motherboard and probably a Toshiba 3401e CDROM and\na SBPro.\n\nWill I need special drivers for getting all this to work? Do they exist?\nBasically, is this feasible, or should I expect to be getting a newer, \nfaster SCSI card?\n\nthanks,\n-Bryan\n", "The last time I was in microprocessor lab was in 1980, using Z-80.\nSo I don't know a lot of buzz terms in PC hardware.\n\nNow I need to purchase a 486, help me to ask the right questions.\n\nMotherboard:\n I need 486-33 with 8 MB ram, with additonal slot for 8 more MB.\n I would like to get two VESA Local Bus. One for video, not sure\n what am I going to do with the other. \n It must be able to run Unix.\n \n What are other questions that I should ask to ensure getting a\n quality stuff? What are other important features ?\n\n\nMonitor:\n I want a 14\" non interlaced svga, but not sure about what brand\n to get. I can't afford NEC or SONY. What brands should I consider?\n Acer? Touch?\n\n What else should I ask?\n\nVideo Card: \n I would like to run Framemaker. So I need a fast video card. Is Western\n Digital worth the $20 over Cirrus Logic? Do I need more than 1M of \n V-RAM?\n\n One company wanted $50 more for a local bus video card. Is this normal?\n \n\nHard Drive:\n Segate, Western Digital, Conner all have the same price. Which one is\n more liable? which one has better performace?\n\nCase/power supply:\n Given the choise of desktop and minitower, which one is better?\n What is the adequate power supply?\n Is cooling a general problem or a non-issue?\n What features should I ask for?\n \nDid I miss anything?\n\nI am sure that there are a lot of semi-PC-literates reading this group.\n\nYour help is greatly appreciated.", "\n\n\nLotus Organizer!!! Quick, cheap, pretty! And has all of those features \nyou want ...\n\n\nYou might look at one of the shell alternatives provided by third\nparties. Norton Desktop for Windows, for instance.\n\nPersonally, I *like* File Manager, which comes with Windows. It's much\nfaster than NDW's, and the File Manager that's part of Windows for\nWorkgroups even has a decent button bar.\n\n\nThat first you can do with File Manager, but the others you'll need\nto look at NDW or PC Tools for Windows, etc.\n\n\nI haven't yet seen a decent freeware or even shareware shell. But\nit may be just me.", "I need some used scanners. I'm limiting my selection to HP models\nwith document feeders. I think this means the ScanJet Plus and the\nScanJet IIc.\n\nso...if you have one of these and want to sell it, please tell me.\n\n--kyler", "Hi,\n I am working on gathering data on the way that users use\ncomputers. This involves getting subjects to type and use a \nmouse. I want to be able to watch what they are doing without \nbeing in the same room. It would be ideal if I could watch\nthe session on another monitor without the subjects knowledge.\nI believe that spliting the monitor cable will only work for\nshort distances, ie <5m. I will need to be approx 10m away, as\nthe cable travels.\n The PC's are connected to a TCP\\IP network and run Windows 3.1.\nIs there any software that will allow me to watch what is \nhappening on another PC?\nThanks\nRegards\n Jon Gough\nTRUST Project\n", "Hi, all hardware netters,\n\n I've seen recently on some magazines advertising a ?NEW? Trident\ngraphics card call 8900CL. The ad said it's new and *faster*. How is it\ncompare to Tseng ET4000? BTW, which is the fastest *non-accelerated* SVGA\non the market? Any info or benchmark are welcome. Thanks in advance.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\tregards,", "\nCan some people with cache cards PLEASE post speedometer numbers they get\nwith the cards. I have only one report, which seems to indicate that\na 32K cache card gives you only about a 1% speedup!! Access to memory takes\nLONGER when you have a cache card(and get a miss) thus a small cache card\nof 32K may be worth $0. I don't know what kind of numbers 64K cards get\nyou. Also I found it interesting that you can disable the cache cards\nvia software(read about it in the Mac IIsi tech notes from ftp.apple.com)", "\n I have a copy of 'The Earth-From Space' on my wall that I purchased\nfrom Space Shots, Inc. (LA, CA (800) 272-2779). As printed on the\nposter, the image was created by Tom Van Sant and the GeoSphere Project.\nThe image IS copyrighted, so I doubt that you'll find it legally in\nthe public domain. Part of the proceeds from the sale of the image go to the \nGeoSphere Project (an environmental education thing), and the cost is\nnominal, so crack a 20 and buy one! Also, I don't think it's always\nsafe to assume that just because the government 'funded' a project, any\nproducts will be provided for free. Many government agencies (NASA, NOAA)\nand some private groups (National Geographic) provided assistance to the\nGeoSphere Project. This collaboration seems to be mostly oriented to\neducating the public, rather than pure research.", "Hi.\n\nI'm wonderring if it is possible to replace a single module, as XKeybind.o\nin a shared library, as libX11.so in Suns OpenWindows. I tried to RTFM, but\nI didn't get any wiser that way. Also, can I do the same on an RS6000 machine\nrunning 3.2.2 (if it is possible at all). I know how to do it with real \nlibraries (ar). I am trying to replace XLookupString in the delivered\nlibraries, with another that does a few special things.\n\n/Per\n-- ", "Olympus Stylus, 35mm, pocket sized, red-eye reduction, timer, fully automatic.\nTime & date stamp, carrying case. Smallest camera in its class.\nRated #2 in Consumer Reports. Excellent condition and only 4 months old.\nWorth $169.95. Purchased for $130. Selling for $100. ", "Misc. P2/2 Stuff!\n\n CARDS: (Micro Channel)\n (6) Arcnet, Coax, 83X9648. Net Cards.\n (3) Serial Adapter. P/N: 90X8459\n (2) Parallel Adapters. P/N: 72X6753\n (2) CoProcessor?? P/N: 83X7488\n (2) Memory Expansion Option. P/N: 90X9507\n Expanded Memory Adapter w/2Mb. P/N: 61X6752\n Expanded memory Adapter, 0k, P/N: 90X8799\n Alloy FTC500/MCA Tape adapter.\n\n DRIVES: (Hard & Floppy)\n 30 Mb HDD, P/N: 90X9403 Model WD-336R\n 60 Mb HDD, P/N: 6128282, Model WD-387T\n 1.44 FDD, P/N: 15F7503, EC #A79541\n 1.44 FDD, P/N: 15F7503, EC #88086\n\n This is what I have aquired over the past few years in PS/2 \ncomponents...\n I have posted the part #'s, so if you have any questions as to what a\n component is, you can call IBM and find out! (I have no idea!!!)\n Make me an offer! Trades welcome!\n Dan Scherer\n (206) 453-5215 Voice\n (206) 996-8350 Pager\n", "\nI get regular questions about gamma correction since I go to great pains to\ndeal with it properly in xli (the image loader program I maintain).\n\nHere is an explanation I often use to answer these questions.\n\nThis might be suitable for inclusion in the FAQ.\n\n\tGraeme Gill.\n\n###########################################################################\n\"A note on gamma correction and images\"\n\nAuthor: Graeme W. Gill\n graeme@labtam.oz.au\n\nDate: 93/5/16\n\n\n\"What is all this gamma stuff anyway ?\"\n--------------------------------------\n\nAlthough it would be nice to think that \"an image is an image\",\nthere are a lot of complications. Not only are there a whole bunch of\ndifferent image formats (gif, jpeg, tiff etc etc), there is a whole\nlot of other technical stuff that makes dealing with images a bit\ncomplicated. Gamma is one of those things. If you've ever downloaded\nimages from BBS or the net, you've probably noticed (with most image\nviewing programs) that some images look ok, some look too dark, and some\nlook too light. \"Why is this ?\" you may ask. This, is gamma correction\n(or the lack of it).\n\nWhy do we need gamma correction at all ?\n--------------------------------------\n\nGamma correction is needed because of the nature of CRTs (cathode\nray tubes - the monitors usually used for viewing images). If you\nhave some sort of real live scene and turn it into a computer\nimage by measuring the amount of light coming from each point of\nthe scene, then you have created a \"linear\" or un-gamma-corrected\nimage. This is a good thing in many ways because you can manipulate\nthe image as if the values in the image file were light (ie. adding\nand multiplying will work just like real light in the real world).\nNow if you take the image file and turn each pixel value into a voltage\nand feed it into a CRT, you find that the CRT _doesn't_ give you\nan amount of light proportional to the voltage. The amount of light\ncoming from the phosphor in the screen depends on the the voltage\nsomething like this:\n\nLight_out = voltage ^ crt_gamma\n\nSo if you just dump your nice linear image out to a CRT, the image\nwill look much too dark. To fix this up you have to \"gamma correct\"\nthe image first. You need to do the opposite of what the CRT\nwill do to the image, so that things cancel out, and you get\nwhat you want. So you have to do this to your image:\n\ngamma_corrected_image = image ^ (1/crt_gamma)\n\nFor most CRTs, the crt_gamma is somewhere between 1.0 and 3.0.\n\nIf that is all it is, why does it seem so complicated ?\n-----------------------------------------------------\n\nThe problem is that not all display programs do gamma correction.\nAlso not all sources of images give you linear images (Video cameras\nor video signals in general). Because of this, a lot of images\nalready have some gamma correction done to them, and you are \nrarely sure how much. If you try and display one of those images\nwith a program that does gamma correction for you, the image gets\ncorrected twice and looks way to light. If you display one of those\nimages with a program that doesn't do gamma correction, then it will\nlook vaguely right, but not perfect, because the gamma correction is\nnot exactly right for you particular CRT.\n\nWhose fault is all this ?\n-----------------------\n\nIt is really three things. One is all those display programs\nout there that don't do gamma correction properly. Another is\nthat most image formats don't specify a standard gamma, or\ndon't have some way or recording what their gamma correction is.\nThe third thing is that not many people understand what gamma\ncorrection is all about, and create a lot of images with varying\ngamma's.\n\nAt least two file formats do the right thing.\nThe Utah Graphics Toolkit .rle format has a semi-standard way of recording\nthe gamma of an image. The JFIF file standard (that uses JPEG compression)\nspecifies that the image to be encoded must have a gamma of 1.0 (ie. a\nlinear image - but not everyone obeys the rules).\n\nSome image loaders (for instance xli - an X11 image utility)\nallow you to specify not only the gamma of the monitor you\nare using, but the individual gamma values of image you are trying to\nview. Other image viewers (eg. xv another X11 image program) and\nutilities (eg. the pbm toolkit) provide ways of changing the gamma\nof an image, but you have to figure out the overall gamma correction\nyourself, allowing for undoing any gamma correction the image has,\nand then the gamma correction you need to suite your CRT monitor.\n\n[ Note that xv 2.21 doesn't provide an easy way of modifying the\ngamma of an image. You need to adjust the R, G and B curves to the\nappropriate gamma in the ColEdit controls. Altering the Intensity\nin the HSV controls doesn't do the right thing, as it fails to\ntake account of the effect gamma has on H and S. This tends\nto give a tint to the image. ]\n\nHow can I figure out what my viewer does, or what gamma my screen has ?\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nThe simplest way to do that is to try loading the file chkgamma.jpg\n(provided with xli distribution), which is a JFIF jpeg format file\ncontaining two grayscale ramps. The ramps are chosen to look linear\nto the human eye, one using continuous tones, and the other using\ndithering. If your viewer does the right thing and gamma corrects\nimages, then the two ramps should look symmetrical, and the point\nat which they look equally bright should be almost exactly half\nway from the top to the bottom. (To find this point it helps if\nyou move away a little from the screen, and de-focus your eyes a\nbit.)\n\nIf your viewer doesn't do gamma correction, then left hand ramp will have\na long dark part and a short white part, and the point of equal brightness\nwill be above the center.\n\nIf your viewer does have a way of setting the right amount of gamma correction\nfor a display, then if the equal brightness point is above center increase the\ngamma, and decrease it if it is below the center. The value will usually be\naround 2.2 \n\n[with xli for instance, you can adjust the display gamma with the\n-dispgamma flag, and once you've got it right, you can set the DISPLAY_GAMMA\nenvironment variable in your .profile]\n\nHow do I figure out what the gamma of an image is ?\n-------------------------------------------------\n\nThis is the most tricky bit. As a general rule it seems that a lot of\ntrue color (ie. 24 bit, .ppm .jpg) images have a gamma of\n1.0 (linear), although there are many about that have some gamma\ncorrection. It seems that the majority of pseudo color images\n(ie. 8 bit images with color maps - .gif etc.) are gamma corrected\nto some degree or other.\n\nIf your viewer does gamma correction then linear images will\nlook good, and gamma corrected images will look too light.\n\nIf your viewer doesn't do gamma correction, then linear images will\nlook too dark, and gamma corrected images will ok.\n\nWhy Linear images are sometimes not such a good thing\n-----------------------------------------------------\n\nOne of the reason that many high quality formats (such as\nVideo) use gamma correction is that it actually makes better\nuse of the storage medium. This is because the human\neye has a logarithmic response to light, and gamma correction\nhas a similar compression characteristic. This means images \ncould make better use of 8 bits per color (for instance),\nif they used gamma correction. The implication though, is that\nevery time you want to do any image processing you should\nconvert the 8 bit image to 12 or so linear bits to retain\nthe same accuracy. Since little popular software does this, and\nnone of the popular image formats can agree on a standard\ngamma correction factor, it is difficult to justify gamma corrected\nimages at the popular level.\n\nIf some image formats can standardize on a particular gamma,\nand if image manipulation software takes care to use\nextra precision when dealing with linearized internal data,\nthen gamma corrected distribution of images would be a good thing.\n\n(I am told that the Kodak PhotoCD format for instance, has a\nstandard gamma correction factor that enables it to get the\nhighest quality out of the bits used to hold the image).", "Hello,\n I am looking to add voice input capability to a user interface I am\ndeveloping on an HP730 (UNIX) workstation. I would greatly appreciate \ninformation anyone would care to offer about voice input systems that are \neasily accessible from the UNIX environment. \n\n The names or adresses of applicable vendors, as well as any \nexperiences you have had with specific systems, would be very helpful.\n\n Please respond via email; I will post a summary if there is \nsufficient interest.\n\n\nThanks,\nKen\n\n\nP.S. I have found several impressive systems for IBM PC's, but I would \nlike to avoid the hassle of purchasing and maintaining a separate PC if \nat all possible.\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nKen Hinckley (kph2q@virginia.edu)\nUniversity of Virginia \nNeurosurgical Visualization Laboratory", "\n\n\n\nThe April 1993 edition of MIX Magazine carries a story on 3DO which\nincludes pictures of the unit, a schematic of what's inside and some\nindication from the people at 3DO as to where they intend to go and in\nwhat stages. (MIX is a trade rag aimed at the professional sound\nengineering community.)\n\nThe schematic shows a central DMA Engine connecting and mediating between\ntwo Graphics Animation processors (32 bit bus), a 32-bit RISC processor\nwith math co-processor, Video Decomp module, a control port, an expansion\nport (where 3DO hangs its double-fast CD player), 1Mb DRAM, an optional\nvideo port (for editing video) and on the outbound side 1MB VRAM to Video\nProcessor to TV chain parallel with a DSP to sound chain. \n\nThey promise Red Book CD-quality audio, full 30 fps video and a future\nconnection path to your PC via a PC expansion card.\n\nI am not informed enough to have an opinion about the various means and\nmethods discussed here. The article, written by Philip De Lancie, does\ncover the other machines mentioned in this thread. I come from the PC\nTCP/IP world and see a tremendous potential for bringing connectedness to\nthe educated consumer; 3DO seems to have the right business partners to\nmake this happen. \n\nHope this helps.", "\nWhy would it have to be much faster (it probably is) ? Assuming an ARM\nis about as efficient as a MIPS R3000 for integer calculations, doing\na Compact-Video-like digital video codec is an easy task. For Software\nMotion Pictures (which is a lot like Compact Video, though it predates\nit), we get 48 frames/sec. at 320x240 on a DECstation 5000/200. That\nmachine has a 25 Mhz MIPS R3000. \n\n\t\tBurkhard Neidecker-Lutz", "Hi\n\nI would like to know if there is any software, PD or not, who\ncould produce X11 output of HPGL file on RS/6000. And same kind of\nsoftware who could produce hardcopy on postscript and lasetjet.\n\nThank You", "Subject: CDTV, Accessories, 1084s Monitor.\n\nBecause of the 'questionable' bids being placed for the set-up, I am\nincluding some 'guideline' prices in this REPOST. Negotiable, of course.\n\nIn anticipation of the arrival of my new computer system, I am\nselling my CDTV and accessories. I am in no rush to sell this\nso if you don't have the money now, but may be able to get it in\na few weeks, make a bid and let me know.\n\nI am NOW willing to sell the pieces separately, but I will wait to sell\nuntil they are all accounted for (at least CDTV and Keyboard Kit)\nI will sell the monitor separately.\n\nCDTV (6 months old. Mint condition. Comes with all documentation,\n packaging, receipt, etc, all in mint condition. Demo disc.)\n ----->I will start bidding at $375 for this\n\nCDTV Keyboard Package [Keyboard, mouse, 3.5\" drive] (Comes with all\n documention, packaging, receipt etc. 6 months old. Mint\n turns your CDTV into a full fledged AMIGA 500 computer!)\n ----->I will start bidding at $125 for this\n\n1084s Monitor (A couple years old. Very Good condition. Comes with\n all documentation, packaging, and receipt if I can find it.)\n ----->I will start bdding at $125 for this\n\nSoftware (Various titles...games, demos, etc. NOTE: I have no CDTV\n discs. All software is 3.5\" disc based).\n ----->FREE with PACKAGE deal.\n\nPlease send your best bid to io00844@maine or call (207)-581-7589.\nAsk for Zero Batzell. You can leave a message if I'm not in.\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\nZero Z. Batzell | CDTV Owner. \"We come in peace...shoot to kill!\"\n(207)-581-7589 | Iguana Owner. \"NCC-42 U.S.S. Heart Of Gold\"\nUniversity of Maine | Video Hobbyist. \"Live long and Don't Panic!!\"\nstudent with a | Star Trek TNG Fan.\n(Mostly Harmless) | Douglas N. Adams Fan. MAJOR: Life, The Universe,\ntransfer in mind. | Orson Scott Card Fan. and Everything.\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\n The Enterprise is not a ship for freeloading degenerate hitchhikers.", "\n\nI have successfully copied all of the uuencoded versions of these logos to my\nlocal directory, but when I tried the GIF files, it said \"Permission denied\".\nCould you explain why, and also how to execute the uuencoded files?\n\nThanks,\n\nKen\n", "\nThanks again Andy.\n\nThe image is in pub/delta-clipper now. The name has been changed to \n\"dcx-artists-concept.gif\" in the spirit of verboseness. :-)\n\n----Chris\n\nChris W. Johnson\n\nInternet: chrisj@emx.cc.utexas.edu\nUUCP: {husc6|uunet}!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!chrisj\nCompuServe: >INTERNET:chrisj@emx.cc.utexas.edu\nAppleLink: chrisj@emx.cc.utexas.edu@internet#", "Jeff,\n I have answers to both of your questions. First, I recommend the Sony\nCPD-1320 monitor. It is a 14\" Trinitron VGA monitor, but it is designed\nspecifically for use with the LC. It works only with Macs with specific video\ncapabilities which means only the LC's and anything after the ci. All it\ntakes is a MAC<->VGA cable (I recommend one from James Engineering which is\nabout $20). These cost about $335 as compared to the much higher prices of\ncomparable monitors because they are not multisynch. I have used one for half\na year and I love it. \nSecond, I have used Syex and found them to be decent. I had a backorder on a\nSupra modem which I cancelled. They were helpful in explaining the reasons\nwhy there were delays and they had Supra's number ready for me. The only\ncomplaint was that they did not always return my calls. \nI have been told that the CPD-1320 is selling for $339 from J&R's\n(800)221-8180. I think Syex is a little more, but I don't know.\n\n-David", "I can't fiqure this out. I have properly compiled pov on a unix machine\nrunning SunOS 4.1.3 The problem is that when I run the sample .pov files and\nuse the EXACT same parameters when compiling different .tga outputs. Some\nof the .tga's are okay, and other's are unrecognizable by any software.", "I need to be able to cause a beep, but without using any interrupt\nroutines, as I cannot use the BIOS. I believe that the PIC might have\nsomething to do with it, but I'm having troubles deciphering the\ninformation I have on it to figure out how to program it!\n\n\tI'm programming all of this in Turbo C, if that makes any\ndiference at all...\n\n\tPlease can anyone help me??!\n\nThanks,", "Has anybody gotten this BMP to work? I try to uudecode it, but\nI get \"input file error\" and no picture. Anybody?", "I have the following PC games forsale.\n\nCyber Empire (VGA 3.5 disks) $15\nProphecy of the Shadow (VGA 3.5)$15\nPrince of Persia (VGA 5.25) $15\nGunship 20000 (VGA 3.5) $10\nGlobal Conquest (EGA 5.25) $10\nKings Quest V (VGA 5.25) $10\nKings Quest IV (VGA 5.25) $10\nAncient Art of War at Sea\n\t(EGA 3.5) $10\nMech Warrior (VGA 5.25/3.5) $10\nChampions of Krynn (EGA 5.25) $10\nTest Drive III (VGA 3.5) $15\nBalance of Power (EGA 5.25) $10\nLeisure Suit Larry in the\n Land of the lounge lizards\n (VGA 3.5/5.25) $10\nSentinel World I (EGA 5.25) $10\nThe Bard's Tale I (EGA 5.25) $10\nSkyFox II (EGA 5.25) $10\nBard's Tale II (EGA 5.25) $10\nModem Wars (VGA 5.25) $10\nHillsfar (EGA 5.25) $10\nStunt Track Racer (EGA 5.25) $10\n\n\tAll of the games have original boxes and all instructions, manuals and copy protection devices. Please respond by e-mail to jth@bach.udel.edu", "Hello,\n\nI thought this problem might have something to do with Windows 3.1 SMARTDRV and\na VESA video card...any ideas???\n\nI recently purchased a 486DX-33 machine and am having problems where the \nmachine will suddenly freeze or reboot. This may happen in Windows 3.1 or DOS \n5.0. Sometimes it is after printing a document, sometimes after using the \nmouse, and sometimes just when I am sitting there. Twice when it happened, the \nmachine rebooted and sounded seven beeps. I looked in the documentation and \nthe seven beep code meant a problem with interrupts. The machine has the \nfollowing configuration and files:\n\n486DX-33\nAMI BIOS\n5.25 and 3.5 floppies\n170 Meg IDE hard drive\n256k cache\nMicrosoft compatible mouse on com1\nCitizen GSX-145 on lpt1\nNI SuperVGA Monitor with VESA Windows Accelerator Card w/ 1Meg\nTwo VESA slots\nWindows 3.1\nDOS 5.0\n\nCONFIG.SYS\n==========\nDEVICE=C:\\WINDOWS\\HIMEM.SYS\nDOS=HIGH\nDEVICEHIGH=C:\\DOS\\SETVER.EXE\nFILES=20\nBUFFERS=20\nSTACKS=9,128\n\nAUTOEXEC.BAT\n============\n@ECHO OFF\nLH C:\\WINDOWS\\SMARTDRV.EXE 1024\nPROMPT $p$g\nPATH C:\\DOS;C:\\WINDOWS;C:\\MOUSE\nLH C:\\MOUSE\\MOUSE\nSET TEMP=C:\\DOS\nLH C:\\DOS\\DOSKEY \n\n\nWhen the machine freezes, I can't use the mouse or keyboard or use Ctrl-Alt-Del \nto reboot. If any one can give me any help, I would greatly appreciate it. If \nanyone can help configure this machine for the best efficiency (memory wise) I \nwould appreciate that also.\n-- \nDouglas B. Dodson\t\t \tInternet:\tDBD@ICF.HRB.COM\nHRB Systems, Inc.\t\t\t\nState College, PA USA\t\t\t\n16804", "Hi,\n\nI just bought a Mitsumi CD-ROM drive and a SB Pro soundcard. The pin outs on\nthe CD-ROM line-out and the SB Pro CD-IN are not the same. I am considering\ntaking the RCA output jacks on the Mitsumi interface card and routing them to\nthe line-in input on the SB Pro. Will this work with multi-media software\nthat uses the CD-ROM and the SB Pro or do I need to go to the CD-IN pins on\nthe SB-Pro.\n\nThanks,\n\nJohn\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------", "====================================================\n H H A RRRRR RRRRR IIIII SSSS\n H H A A R R R R I S \n HHHHHH AAAAA RRRRR RRRRR I SSSS\n H H A A R R R R I S \n H H A A R R R R IIIII SSSS \n ====================================================\n\n\nHarris Semiconductor now has AnswerFAX. AnswerFAX is on-line 24 hours\na day, 7 days a week, so you can instantly receive datasheets and \napplication notes by using your touch-tone telephone and FAX machine.\nThe number to call is (407) 724-3818. (It is not set up to do international\ncalls at this time.)\n\nThe general decision tree for the AnswerFAX is as follows, the numbers are\nthe available selections:\n\n\n Welcome to Harris Semiconductors AnswerFAX\n |\n ----------------------------------------\n | |\n 1 2\n | |\n Select 1 if you Select 2 for an\n are familiar with explanation of\n AnswerFAX. AnswerFAX\n | |\n |--------------------------------------|\n |\n | \n |\n --------------------------------\n | |\n 1 2\n | |\n Select 1 to order Select 2 for a\n a document (the list of catalogs:\n document list is 1 New Products\n in the catalogs, 2 Linear Products\n get them first) 3 Data Acquisition Products\n | 4 Digital Signal Processing Products\n | 5 Discrete Power and Intelligent\n | Power Products\n | 9 Application Notes\n | |\n | |\n Select appropriate document Select Appropriate Catalog\n | |\n | |\n Do you want to order Do you want to order\n anything else? If yes, anything else? If yes,\n you will be taken back you will be taken back \n to the selection decision. to the selection decision.\n | |\n | |\n --------------------------------\n |\n |\n |\n What is phone number\n for your FAX?\n |\n |\n What is your name?\n (request the instructions)\n |\n |\n END \n\n\n\nBill Werner\n", "I've found that I have to add the \"-8\" option for displaying JPEGs\nwith the new version. For some reason, if I don't, it goes into\n24-bit mode and the resulting image is displayed with 216 colors \n(from a 6x6x6 array) instead of 256 and looks grainier. Since I'm\non the ubiquitous 8-bit pseudo color display I would have thought it\ncould tell that.\n", "======================================================================\n NYC ACM/SIGGRAPH: UNDERSTANDING IMAGES\n======================================================================\n\n SUBJECT:\n\n Pace University/SIGGRAPH Conference on UNDERSTANDING IMAGES\n ===========================================================\n\n The purpose of this conference is to bring together a breadth of\n disciplines, including the physical, biological and computational\n sciences, technology, art, psychology, philosophy, and education,\n in order to define and discuss the issues essential to image\n understanding within the computer graphics context.\n\n FEATURED TOPICS INCLUDE:\n\n Psychology/Perception\n Image Analysis\n Design\n Text\n Sound\n Philosophy\n\n DATE: Friday & Saturday, 21-22 May 1993\n\n TIME: 9:00 am - 6:00 pm\n\n PLACE: The Pace Downtown Theater\n One Pace Plaza\n (on Spruce Street between Park Row & Gold Street)\n NY, NY 10038\n\n FEES:\n\n PRE-REGISTRATION (Prior to 1 May 1993):\n Members $55.00\n Non-Members $75.00\n Students $40.00 (Proof of F/T Status Required)\n\n REGISTRATION (After 1 May 1993 or On-Site):\n All Attendees $95.00\n\n (Registration Fee Includes Brakfast, Breaks & Lunch)\n\n\n SEND REGISTRATION INFORMATION & FEES TO:\n\n Dr. Francis T. Marchese\n Computer Science Department\n NYC/ACM SIGGRAPH Conference\n Pace University\n 1 Pace Plaza (Room T-1704)\n New York NY 10036\n\n voice: (212) 346-1803 fax: (212) 346-1933\n email: MARCHESF@PACEVM.bitnet\n\n======================================================================\nREGISTRATION INFORMATION:\n\nName _________________________________________________________________\n\nTitle ________________________________________________________________\n\nCompany ______________________________________________________________\n\nStreet Address _______________________________________________________\n\nCity ________________________________State____________Zip_____________\n\nDay Phone (___) ___-____ Evening Phone (___) ___-____\n\nFAX Phone (___) ___-____ Email_____________________________________\n======================================================================\n\nDETAILED DESCRIPTION:\n=====================\n\n Artists, designers, scientists, engineers and educators share the\n problem of moving information from one mind to another.\n Traditionally, they have used pictures, words, demonstrations,\n music and dance to communicate imagery. However, expressing\n complex notions such as God and infinity or a seemingly well\n defined concept such as a flower can present challenges which far\n exceed their technical skills.\n\n The explosive use of computers as visualization and expression\n tools has compounded this problem. In hypermedia, multimedia and\n virtual reality systems vast amounts of information confront the\n observer or participant. Wading through a multitude of\n simultaneous images and sounds in possibly unfamiliar\n representions, a confounded user asks: \"What does it all mean?\"\n\n Since image construction, transmission, reception, decipherment and\n ultimate understanding are complex tasks, strongly influenced by\n physiology, education and culture; and, since electronic media\n radically amplify each processing step, then we, as electronic\n communicators, must determine the fundamental paradigms for\n composing imagery for understanding.\n\n Therefore, the purpose of this conference is to bring together a\n breadth of disciplines, including, but not limited to, the\n physical, biological and computational sciences, technology, art,\n psychology, philosophy, and education, in order to define and\n discuss the issues essential to image understanding within the\n computer graphics context.\n\n\n FEATURED SPEAKERS INCLUDE:\n\n Psychology/Perception:\n Marc De May, University of Ghent\n Beverly J. Jones, University of Oregon\n Barbara Tversky, Standfor University\n Michael J. Shiffer, MIT\n Tom Hubbard, Ohio State University\n Image Analysis:\n A. Ravishankar Rao, IBM Watson Research Center\n Nalini Bhusan, Smith College\n Xiaopin Hu, University of Illinois\n Narenda Ahuja, University of Illinois\n Les M. Sztander, University of Toledo\n Design:\n Mark Bajuk, University of Illinois\n Alyce Kaprow, MIT\n Text:\n Xia Lin, Pace University\n John Loustau, Hunter College\n Jong-Ding Wang, Hunter College\n Judson Rosebush, Judson Rosebush Co.\n Sound:\n Matthew Witten, University of Texas\n Robert Wyatt, Center for High Performance Computing\n Robert S. Williams, Pace University\n Rory Stuart, NYNEX\n Philosophy\n Michael Heim, Education Foundation of DPMA", "\n\nI have done this before, but I'm not sure I used the best approach (although\nI tried several methods...).\n\nYou have to run up the window heirarchy (using XQueryTree()) until you get\nto the root window. Now, this is not so simple because some window managers\nslap a window over the root window that is the same size as the root window,\nso be sure to take that into account for further calculations.\n\nCalculate the position and width/height offsets for each window using\nXGetGeometry(). BE SURE TO TAKE THE BORDER_WIDTH INTO CONSIDERATION.\nRemember a windows border_width IS ON THE OUTSIDE of a window, so the\nwindows x,y,width,height must be adjusted accordingly.\n\nAll of this should give you pretty good numbers for how much space the\nwindow-manager is using.\n\nNow, to place the new window, you have to use the same numbers to calculate \nwhere you want to place it, because the window-manager will re-parent it on\nthe OUTSIDE of where you place your window (if I remember correctly).\n\nDISCLAIMER: All of this is from memory, and I no longer have the code. But\nI did get it working under several window managers correctly. Feel free to\ncall or e-mail for further info.\n\n -McGary\n", "I am looking for software that reads a plot in PCX or other format and \nconverts it into x,y coordinate.\n", "\nNot even in sub panels! The only place the neutral should be connected to the\nground is in a SERVICE DISCONNECT! In your house the \"main\" panel serves as\nthe service disconnect. Sub panles in your garage or workshop for example must\nmaintain seperate neutral and ground busses because they are not service\ndisconnect equipment.\n", "Yep, at:\noak.oakland.edu\nthey have a couple different 68HC16 things in\n/pub/msdos/emulators\nand get the file\n00-index.txt\nfor a list of what they have.\nlige\n", "Any utility that let you remap the keyboard under MS Win?", "Here's the scoop:\n\nFor the past two years, I have been using an SE/30 with a Sony 1304s and\na Lapis video card. This past month, I bought a Quadra 800 and am now \nusing the Sony on it. My SE/30 has been shipped home to my father who\nis planning on getting an Apple 14\" monitor (The Trinitron one). My\nquestion is this: What kind of power cord will he get with the Apple\nmonitor. Does it come with two types? As I recall, one can hook up the\npower cord of an apple monitor to the back of a machine such as my \nQuadra 800. However, for my father's SE/30, there is no extra plug which\nallows use of the SE/30's power supply. He needs to plug it into the\nsocket separately. So...does the monitor come with a cable that will allow\nhim to do this? Will have to buy a different cable? IF yes, where can he\npurchase such a cable? or apple kind enough to provide both types of cables?\n\nThanks in advance,\nDerek\n\n\n\n\n******************************************************************************\n DEREK FONG * EMAIL: thewho@plume.mit.edu\n Dept. of Physical Oceanography * thewho@darla.whoi.edu", "Anyone happen to know what the max resolution for quicktime is? I'm \ntrying to determine if a maxed out system using quicktime could produce\nand edit broadcast quality video (including bringing the video in via\nvideo spigot/etc.). So far I have yet to see anything that's even close\nto S-VHS in quicktime, but it'd be great to hear that it's possible.", "I have a Macc IIci and a Color scanner.\nI scanned a picture at 600 dpi. When I try to print\nit on my HP500 color printer, after 10 minutes of\nmaking noise, the mac hangs. I would need to reboot it.\nWhat does this mean? Do I need to buy more memory? I have\n5.0 MB now. I also have about 50 MB of disk free, and the\nscanned picture is about 12 MB.\n\n---\n\n", "\n\n\nI did this. I use a relay (Radio Shack 4PDT) instead of a huge\nswitch. This way, if the relay breaks, my drives will still work.\n\nIt works fine, but you may still need to change the CMOS before the\ndrive switch will work correctly for some programs.\n\nrp93", "[ Article crossposted from comp.os.ms-windows.apps ]\n[ Author was Dr. Richard Timmer ]\n[ Posted on 24 Apr 93 23:11:16 GMT ]\n\n\nHello WinNetters:\n\nI have seen a great deal of discussion herein on the relative merits of \nMS Access and Borland Paradox/Win. However, are there any users out there \nwith experience with the database package called \"Approach\". It has gotten\na number of very good reviews from the various mags. and it seems like it\nwould require less hardware overhead than Paradox. I have ruled out Access\nbecause some aspects of it are extremely non-intuitive, e.g. requiring a\nfield to always have a value. I like what I've seen of Paradox, but it\nseems like the resource requirements are greater than what I have (386/25 MHz,\n6 MB ram).\n\nSo, please provide me with your thoughts are \"Approach\", good and bad. Thanks.\n", "PC GAMES FOR SALE......\nBoth Games in original package and original docs.\n\nJordan In Flight\t$30 +S&H\nTest Drive 3 \t\t$15 + S&H\n\nOr OBO\n\nContact Bob at...", "I had the good luck to obtain an EICO dynamic conductance \ntube tester for a song. Unfortunately, I was a little out of\nkey; the only thing wrong with it was an open meter movement.\nDoes anyone know where I can find either another meter movement\nlike it, a dead-but-not-the-meter-dead unit, or schematics \nto specify the current scale of the meter movement? I can cut\nand paste a more sensitive movement in if I can find what the\nfull scale current was. Or... is EICO still contactable?\n\nThe thing is a model 666 -nope, not a joke or any sort of snide\nreference.", "These packages all include complete printed manuals and\nregistration cards. I need to get rid of some excess.\nThey're the latest versions. I've priced these programs\nat less than half the list price and significantly less\nthan the cheapest mail-order price around.\n \n* OS/2 2.0, can run Windows, DOS, and OS/2 programs,\nsuperior stability compared to Windows, list $169, sale\n$60.\n \n* NORTON COMMANDER FOR OS/2, provides better file\nmanagement than OS/2 does alone, graphical tree and file\nlist, drag and drop, launch apps from customizable menu,\nlist $149, sale $60.\n \nIf you're interested in any of these programs, please phone me at\n215-885-7446 (Philadelphia) and I'll save the package for you.", "I have 2 new SMC 270E ARCNET cards for sale . They are brand new. $50 each", "I am going to be getting a C650 soon, but I don;t want Apple \nto come out with the Cyclones and the Tempest in a month\nand have the price drop on the system I want. I have negotiated a \ngood deal with a supplier for a C650 8/80 and I would like to jump on it,\nbut, again, I don't want the price drop to smuther me. BTW, the deal\nI have is a C650 8/80 with mouse for $2295... does anyone know of a better\ndeal?\n\nthanks,", "Can I view JPEG files without special hardware?", "QUESTION:\n What is the EXACT entry (parameter and syntax please), in the X-Terminal\nconfiguration file (loaded when the X-Terminal boots), to add another system \nto the TCP/IP access control list? \n\n BACKGROUND:\n I have two unix systems, 1. an AT&T 3B2 running X11R3 and MIT's X11R4 and \n2. a Sun SS10 without any X. \n I want to have a window to the Sun and the 3B2 on the NCD X-Terminal at the\nsame time. I can do this if I manually set the Network Parameter TCP/IP\nAccess Control List to off, then login to my telnet session. Not Great! \n I've tried to get \"xhost\" to work and failed. Either my syntax is wrong\nor the X11R3 implementation is bogus. \n I am trying to edit the NCD configuration file that is loaded when the \nNCD boots. No matter what entry I add or edit, the NCD still boots with\nthe TCP/IP Access Control list containing only the 3B2.\n My manuals are worthless so any help would be most appreciated!! Thanks!", "\nMost likely reason is that your backup battery is failing - this battery \nmaintains the contents of the CMOS memory when AC power is turned off, and\nif the battery is flakey then the contents of the CMOS will be lost and \nthe checksum will be wrong (along with most other of the CMOS data). Try \nreplacing the battery.\n\nIf, however, your PC doesn't use a battery but a large capacitor to power\nthe CMOS, you should check to see if you can replace the capacitor with a \nmore normal lithium battery. If this isn't possible, make sure you leave\nyour PC on for a half hour or hour each day; this will keep the capacitor \ncharged. I'd opt for the battery change, though.", "I have two pairs of headphones I'd like to sell. These are excellent, and both in great condition:\n\nDenon AH-D350\nJVC HA-D590\n\nAny reasonable offer accepted.", "Archive-name: typing-injury-faq/keyboards\nVersion: $Revision: 5.11 $ $Date: 1993/04/13 01:20:43 $\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n Answers To Frequently Asked Questions about Keyboard Alternatives\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nThe Alternative Keyboard FAQ\nCopyright 1992,1993 By Dan Wallach \n\nThe opinions in here are my own, unless otherwise mentioned, and do not\nrepresent the opinions of any organization or vendor.\n\n[Current distribution: sci.med.occupational, sci.med, comp.human-factors,\n {news,sci,comp}.answers, and e-mail to c+health@iubvm.ucs.indiana.edu,\n sorehand@vm.ucsf.edu, and cstg-L@vtvm1.cc.vt.edu]\n\nChanges since previously distributed versions are marked with change ||\nbars to the right of the text, as is this paragraph. ||\n\nInformation in this FAQ has been pieced together from phone conversations,\ne-mail, and product literature. While I hope it's useful, the information\nin here is neither comprehensive nor error free. If you find something\nwrong or missing, please mail me, and I'll update my list. Thanks.\n\nAll phone numbers, unless otherwise mentioned, are U.S.A. phone numbers.\nAll monetary figures, unless otherwise mentioned, are U.S.A. dollars.\n\nProducts covered in this FAQ:\n Using a PC's keyboard on your workstation / compatibility issues\n Apple Computer, Inc.\n Key Tronic FlexPro\n Dragon Systems\n The Bat\n DataHand\n Comfort Keyboard System\n Kinesis Ergonomic Keyboard\n Maltron\n The Tony! Ergonomic KeySystem\n The Vertical\n The MIKey\n The Wave\n The Minimal Motion Computer Access System\n Twiddler\n Half-QWERTY\n Microwriter\n Braille 'n Speak\n Octima\n AccuKey\n\nGIF pictures of many of these products are available via anonymous ftp\nfrom soda.berkeley.edu:pub/typing-injury. (128.32.149.19) I highly\nrecommend getting the pictures. They tell much more than I can fit\ninto this file.\n\nIf you can't ftp, send me mail, and I'll uuencode and mail them to you\n(they're pretty big...)\n\n==============\nUsing a PC's keyboard on your workstation / compatibility issues\n\n Mini outline:\n 1. Spoofing a keyboard over the serial port\n 2. X terminals\n 3. NeXT\n 4. Silicon Graphics\n 5. IBM RS/6000\n\t6. Other stuff\n\n 1. Spoofing a keyboard over the serial port\n\n\tIf you've got a proprietary computer which uses its own keyboard\n\t(Sun, HP, DEC, etc.) then you're going to have a hard time finding\n\ta vendor to sell you a compatible keyboard. If your workstation\n\truns the X window system, you're in luck. You can buy a cheap used\n\tPC, hook your expensive keyboard up to it, and run a serial cable\n\tto your workstation. Then, run a program on the workstation to read\n\tthe serial port and generate fake X keyboard events.\n\n\tThe two main programs I've found to do this are KT and A2X.\n\n\ta2x is a sophisticated program, capable of controlling the mouse, and\n\teven moving among widgets on the screen. It requires a server\n\textension (XTEST, DEC-XTRAP, or XTestExtension1). To find out if your\n\tserver can do this, run 'xdpyinfo' and see if any of these strings\n\tappear in the extensions list. If your server doesn't have this,\n\tyou may want to investigate compiling X11R5, patchlevel 18 or later,\n\tor bugging your vendor.\n\n\tkt is a simpler program, which should work with unextended X servers.\n\tAnother program called xsendevent also exists, but I haven't seen it.\n\n\tBoth a2x and kt are available via anonymous ftp from soda.berkeley.edu.\n\n 2. X terminals\n\n\tAlso, a number of X terminals (NCD, Tektronics, to name a few) use\n\tPC-compatible keyboards. If you have an X terminal, you may be all\n\tset. Try it out with a normal PC keyboard before you go through the\n\ttrouble of buying an alternative keyboard. Also, some X terminals add\n\textra buttons -- you may need to keep your original keyboard around\n\tfor the once-in-a-blue-moon that you have to hit the Setup key.\n\n 3. NeXT\n\n\tNeXT had announced that new NeXT machines will use the Apple Desktop\n\tBus, meaning any Mac keyboard will work. Then, they announced they\n\twere cancelling their hardware production. If you want any kind of\n\tupgrade for an older NeXT, do it now!\n\n 4. Silicon Graphics\n\n\tSilicon Graphics has announced that their newer machines (Indigo^2 and\n\tbeyond) will use standard PC-compatible keyboards and mice. I don't\n\tbelieve this also applies to the Power Series machines. It's not\n\tpossible to upgrade an older SGI to use PC keyboards, except by\n\tupgrading the entire machine. Contact your SGI sales rep for more\n\tdetails.\n\n 5. IBM RS/6000\n\n\tIBM RS/6000 keyboards are actually similar to normal PC keyboards. ||\n\tUnfortunately, you can't just plug one in. You need two things: a ||\n\tcable converter to go from the large PC keyboard connector to the ||\n\tsmaller PS/2 style DIN-6, and a new device driver for AIX. Believe ||\n\tit or not, IBM wrote this device driver recently, I used it, and it ||\n\tworks. However, they don't want me to redistribute it. I've been ||\n\ttold Judy Hume (512) 823-6337 is a potential contact. If you learn ||\n\tanything new, please send me e-mail.\t\t\t\t ||\n \n 6. Other stuff\n\n\tSome vendors here (notably: Health Care Keyboard Co. and AccuCorp)\n\tsupport some odd keyboard types, and may be responsive to your\n\tqueries regarding supporting your own weird computer. If you can\n\tget sufficient documention about how your keyboard works (either\n\tfrom the vendor, or with a storage oscilloscope), you may be in\n\tluck. Contact the companies for more details.\n\n\nApple Adjustable Keyboard\n Apple Computer, Inc.\n Sales offices all over the place.\n\n Availability: February, 1993\n Price: $219\n Supports: Mac only\n\n Apple has recently announced their new split-design keyboard. The\n keyboard has one section for each hand, and the sections rotate\n backward on a hinge. The sections do not tilt upward. The keys are\n arranged in a normal QWERTY fashion.\n\n The main foldable keyboard resembles a normal Apple Keyboard.\n A separate keypad contains all the extended key functions.\n\n The keyboard also comes with matching wrist rests, which are not\n directly attachable to the keyboard.\n\n As soon as soda comes back up, I'll have a detailed blurb from\n TidBITS available there.\n\n\nFlexPro Keyboard\n Key Tronic\n Phone: 800-262-6006\n Possible contact: Denise Razzeto, 509-927-5299\n Sold by many clone vendors and PC shops\n\n Availability: Spring, 1993 (?)\n Price: $489 (?)\n Supports: PC only (highly likely)\n\n Keytronic apparently showed a prototype keyboard at Comdex. It's\n another split-design. One thumb-wheel controls the tilt of both\n the left and right-hand sides of the main alphanumeric section.\n The arrow keys and keypad resemble a normal 101-key PC keyboard.\n\n Keytronic makes standard PC keyboards, also, so this product will\n probably be sold through their standard distribution channels.\n\n\nDragonDictate-30K (and numerous other Dragon products)\n Dragon Systems, Inc.\n 320 Nevada Street\n Newton, MA 02160\n\n Phone: 800-TALK-TYP or 617-965-5200\n Fax: 617-527-0372\n\n Shipping: Now.\n\n Price: DragonDictate-30K -- $4995 (end user system)\n\t DragonWriter 1000 -- $1595 / $2495 (end user/developer system)\n\t various other prices for service contracts, site licenses, etc.\n \n Compatibility: 386 (or higher) PC only\n\t\t (3rd party support for Mac)\n\n\tFree software support for X windows is also available -- your\n\tPC with Dragon hardware talks to your workstation over a\n\tserial cable or network. The program is called a2x, and is\n\tavailable via anonymous ftp:\n\n\tsoda.berkeley.edu:pub/typing-injury/a2x.tar.Z\n\texport.lcs.mit.edu:contrib/a2x.tar.Z (most current)\n\n\tIf you want to use your Dragon product with X windows, you may want\n\tto ask for Peter Cohen, an salesman at Dragon who knows more about\n\tthis sort of thing.\n\n Dragon Systems sells a number of voice recognition products.\n Most (if not all) of them seem to run on PC's and compatibles\n (including PS/2's and other MicroChannel boxes). They sell you\n a hardware board and software which sits in front of a number\n of popular word processors and spreadsheets.\n\n Each user `trains' the system to their voice, and there are provisions\n to correct the system when it makes mistakes, on the fly. Multiple\n people can use it, but you have to load a different personality file\n for each person. You still get the use of your normal keyboard, too.\n On the DragonDictate-30K you need to pause 1/10th sec between\n words. Dragon claims typical input speeds of 30-40 words per minute.\n I don't have specs on the DragonWriter 1000.\n\n The DragonDictate-30K can recognize 30,000 words at a time.\n The DragonWriter 1000 can recognize (you guessed it) 1000 words at a time.\n\n Dragon's technology is also part of the following products\n (about which I have no other info):\n\n\tMicrosoft Windows Sound System (Voice Pilot)\n\tIBM VoiceType\n\tVoice Navigator II (by Articulate Systems -- for Macintosh)\n\tEMStation (by Lanier Voice Products -- \"emergency medical workstation\")\n\n\nThe Bat\n old phone number: 504-336-0033\n current phone number: 504-766-8082\n\n Infogrip, Inc.\n 812 North Blvd.\n Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70802, U.S.A.\n\n Ward Bond (main contact)\n David Vicknair (did the Unix software) 504-766-1029\n\n Shipping: Now.\n\n Supports: Mac, IBM PC (serial port -- native keyboard port version\n coming very soon...). No other workstations supported, but serial\n support for Unix with X Windows has been written. PC and Mac are\n getting all the real attention from the company.\n\n A chording system. One hand is sufficient to type everything.\n The second hand is for redundancy and increased speed.\n\n Price:\n\t$495 (dual set -- each one is a complete keyboard by itself)\n\t$295 (single)\n\n\t(cheaper prices were offered at MacWorld Expo as a show-special.)\n\n\nDataHand 602-860-8584\n Industrial Innovations, Inc.\n 10789 North 90th Street\n Scottsdale, Arizona 85260-6727, U.S.A.\n\n Mark Roggenbuck (contact)\n\n Supports: PC and Mac\n\n Shipping: In beta. \"Big backlog\" -- could take 3+ months.\n\n Price: $2000/unit (1 unit == 2 pods). (new price!)\t\t\t ||\n\n Each hand has its own \"pod\". Each of the four main fingers has five\n switches each: forward, back, left, right, and down. The thumbs have\n a number of switches. Despite appearances, the key layout resembles\n QWERTY, and is reported to be no big deal to adapt to. The idea is\n that your hands never have to move to use the keyboard. The whole pod\n tilts in its base, to act as a mouse.\n\n (see also: the detailed review, written by Cliff Lasser \n available via anonymous ftp from soda.berkeley.edu)\n\n\nComfort Keyboard System 414-253-4131\n FAX: 414-253-4177\n\n Health Care Keyboard Company\n N82 W15340 Appleton Ave\n Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin 53051 U.S.A.\n\n\n Jeffrey Szmanda (Vice President -- contact)\n\n Shipping: Now.\n\n Supports: PC (and Mac???)\t\t\t\t\t\t ||\n \n Planned future support:\n\tIBM 122-key layout (3270-style, I believe)\n\tSun Sparc\n\tDecision Data\n\tUnisys UTS-40\n\tSilicon Graphics\n\n\tOthers to be supported later. The hardware design is relatively\n\teasy for the company to re-configure.\n\n Price: $690, including one system \"personality module\".\t\t ||\n\n The idea is that one keyboard works with everything. You purchase\n \"compatibility modules\", a new cord, and possibly new keycaps, and\n then you can move your one keyboard around among different machines.\n\n It's a three-piece folding keyboard. The layout resembles the\n standard 101-key keyboard, except sliced into three sections. Each\n section is on a \"custom telescoping universal mount.\" Each section\n independently adjusts to an infinite number of positions allowing each\n individual to type in a natural posture. You can rearrange the three\n sections, too (have the keypad in the middle if you want). Each\n section is otherwise normal-shaped (i.e.: you put all three sections\n flat, and you have what looks like a normal 101-key keyboard).\n\n\nKinesis Ergonomic Keyboard 206-455-9220\n 206-455-9233 (fax)\n\n Kinesis Corporation\n 15245 Pacific Highway South,\n Seattle, Washington 98188, U.S.A.\n\n Shirley Lunde (VP Marketing -- contact)\n\n Shipping: Now.\n\n Supports: PC. Mac and Sun Sparc in the works.\n\n Price: $690. Volume discounts available. The $690 includes one foot\n\tpedal, one set of adhesive wrist pads, and a TypingTutor program.\n\tAn additional foot pedal and other accessories are extra.\n\n The layout has a large blank space in the middle, even though the\n keyboard is about the size of a normal PC keyboard -- slightly\n smaller. Each hand has its own set of keys, laid out to minimize\n finger travel. Thumb buttons handle many major functions (enter,\n backspace, etc.).\n\n You can remap the keyboard in firmware (very nice when software won't\n allow the reconfig).\n\n Foot pedals are also available, and can be mapped to any key on the\n keyboard (shift, control, whatever).\n\n\nMaltron\t\t(+44) 081 398 3265 (United Kingdom)\n P.C.D. Maltron Limited\n 15 Orchard Lane\n East Molesey\n Surrey KT8 OBN\n England\n\n Pamela and Stephen Hobday (contacts)\n\n U.S. Distributor:\n\tJim Barrett\n\tApplied Learning Corp.\n\t1376 Glen Hardie Road\n\tWayne, PA 19087\n\n\tPhone: 215-688-6866\n\n Supports: PC's, Amstrad 1512/1640, BBC B, BBC Master,\n\t Mac apparently now also available\n\n\n Price: 375 pounds\n\t $735 shipped in the U.S.A. (basically, converted price + shipping)\n\n\t The cost is less for BBC computers, and they have a number of \n\t accessories, including carrying cases, switch boxes to use both\n\t your normal keyboard and the Maltron, an articulated arm that\n\t clamps on to your table, and training 'courses' to help you learn\n\t to type on your Maltron.\n\n\t You can also rent a keyboard for 10 pounds/week + taxes.\n\t U.S. price: $120/month, and then $60 off purchase if you want it.\n\n Shipping: Now (in your choice of colors: black or grey)\n \n Maltron has four main products -- a two-handed keyboard, two one-handed\n keyboards, and a keyboard designed for handicapped people to control with\n a mouth-stick.\n\n The layout allocates more buttons to the thumbs, and is curved to\n bring keys closer to the fingers. A separate keypad is in the middle.\n\n\nAccuKey\n AccuCorp, Inc.\n P.O. Box 66\n Christiansburg, VA 24073, U.S.A.\n \n 703-961-3576 (Pete Rosenquist -- Sales)\n 703-961-2001 (Larry Langley -- President)\n \n Shipping: Now.\n Supports: PC, Mac, IBM 3270, Sun Sparc, and TeleVideo 935 and 955.\n Cost: $495 + shipping.\n \n Doesn't use conventional push-keys. Soft rubber keys, which rock\n forward and backward (each key has three states), make chords for\n typing keys. Learning time is estimated to be 2-3 hours, for getting\n started, and maybe two weeks to get used to it.\n\n Currently, the thumbs don't do anything, although a thumb-trackball\n is in the works.\n \n The company claims it takes about a week of work to support a\n new computer. They will be happy to adapt their keyboard to\n your computer, if possible.\n\n\nTwiddler\t516-474-4405, or 800-638-2352\n Handykey\n 141 Mt. Sinai Ave.\n Mt. Sinai, NY 11766\n\n Chris George (President)\n\n Shipping: now.\n\n Price: $199.\n\n Supports: PC only. Mac and X Windows in the works.\n\n The Twiddler is both a keyboard and a mouse, and it fits in one hand.\n You type via finger chords. Shift, control, etc. are thumb buttons.\n When in \"mouse\" mode, tilting the Twiddler moves the mouse, and mouse\n buttons are on your fingers.\n\n The cabling leaves your normal keyboard available, also.\n\n Most applications work, and Windows works fine. DESQview has trouble.\n GEOWorks also has trouble -- mouse works, keyboard doesn't.\n\n\nBraille 'n Speak 301-879-4944\n Blazie Engineering\n 3660 Mill Green Rd.\n Street, Md 21154, U.S.A.\n\n (information provided by Doug Martin )\n\n The Braille N Speak uses any of several Braille codes for entering\n information: Grade I, Grade II, or computer Braille. Basically,\n letters a-j are combinations of dots 1, 2, 4, and 5. Letters k-t are\n the same combinations as a-j with dot 3 added. Letters u, v, x, y, and\n z are like a-e with dots 3 and 6 added. (w is unique because Louis\n Braille didn't have a w in the French alphabet.)\n\n\nThe Tony! Ergonomic KeySystem 415-969-8669\n Tony Hodges\n The Tony! Corporation\n 2332 Thompson Court\n Mountain View, CA 94043, U.S.A.\n\n Supports: Mac, PC, IBM 3270, Sun, and DEC.\n \n Shipping: ???\n\n Price: $625 (you commit now, and then you're in line to buy the\n keyboard. When it ships, if it's cheaper, you pay the cheaper price.\n If it's more expensive, you still pay $625)\n\n The Tony! should allow separate positioning of every key, to allow\n the keyboard to be personally customized. A thumb-operated mouse\n will also be available.\n\n\nThe Vertical\n Contact: Jeffrey Spencer or Stephen Albert, 619-454-0000\n P.O. Box 2636\n La Jolla, CA 92038, U.S.A.\n\n Supports: no info available, probably PC's\n Available: Summer, 1993\n Price: $249\n\n The Vertical Keyboard is split in two halves, each pointing straight up.\n The user can adjust the width of the device, but not the tilt of each\n section. Side-view mirrors are installed to allow users to see their\n fingers on the keys.\n\n\nThe MIKey 301-933-1111\n Dr. Alan Grant\n 3208 Woodhollow Drive\n Chevy Chase, Maryland 20815, U.S.A.\n\n Shipping: As of July, 1992: \"Should be Available in One Year.\"\n\n Supports: PC, Mac (maybe)\n\n Price: $200 (estimated)\n\n The keyboard is at a fixed angle, and incorporates a built-in mouse\n operated by the thumbs. Function keys are arranged in a circle at\n the keyboard's left.\n\n\nThe Wave\t(was: 213-) 310-644-6100\n FAX: 310-644-6068\n\n Iocomm International Technology\n 12700 Yukon Avenue\n Hawthorne, California 90250, U.S.A.\n\n Robin Hunter (contact -- in sales)\n\n Cost: $99.95 + $15 for a set of cables\n\n Supports: PC only.\n\n Shipping: now.\n\n Iocomm also manufactures \"ordinary\" 101-key keyboard (PC/AT) and\n 84-key keyboard (PC/XT), so make sure you get the right one.\n\n The one-piece keyboard has a built-in wrist-rest. It looks *exactly*\n like a normal 101-key PC keyboard, with two inches of built-in wrist\n rest. The key switch feel is reported to be greatly improved.\n \n\nThe Minimal Motion Computer Access System \t508-263-6437\n 508-263-6537 (fax)\n\n Equal Access Computer Technology\n Dr. Michael Weinreigh\n 39 Oneida Rd.\n Acton, MA 01720, U.S.A.\n\n Price: InfoGrip-compatible: \"a few hundred dollars\" + a one-handed Bat\n\t For their own system: $300 (DOS software) + \"a few hundred dollars\"\n \n Shipping: these are custom-made, so an occupational therapist would\n\t make moulds/do whatever to make it for you. You can buy one now.\n \n Supports: PC only, although the InfoGrip-compatible version might\n\t work with a Mac.\n\n In a one-handed version, there is exactly one button per finger. In a\n two-handed version, you get four buttons per finger, and the thumbs\n don't do anything. You can also get one-handed versions with three\n thumb buttons -- compatible with the InfoGrip Bat. Basically, get it\n any way you want.\n\n They also have a software tutorial to help you learn the chording.\n\n Works on a PC under DOS, not Windows. Planning on Macintosh and\n PC/Windows support. No work has been done on a Unix version, yet.\n\n\nHalf-QWERTY\t(Canada) 416-749-3124\n The Matias Corporation\n 178 Thistledown Boulevard\n Rexdale, Ontario, Canada\n M9V 1K1\n\n E-mail: ematias@dgp.toronto.edu\n\n Supports: Mac and PC (but, not Windows)\n\n Demo for anonymous ftp: explorer.dgp.toronto.edu:/pub/Half-QWERTY\t ||\n\n Price: $129.95 (higher in Canada, quantity discounts available)\n Shipping: Now.\n \n This thing is purely software. No hardware at all.\n\n The software will mirror the keyboard when you hold down the space\n bar, allowing you type one-handed.\n\n\nOctima\t(Israel) 972-4-5322844\n FAX: (+972) 3 5322970\n\n Ergoplic Keyboards Ltd.\n P.O. Box 31\n Kiryat Ono 55100, Israel\n\n (info from Mandy Jaffe-Katz )\n A one-handed keyboard.\n\n\nMicrowriter AgendA (U.K.) (+44) 276 692 084\n FAX: (+44) 276 691 826\n\n Microwriter Systems plc\n M.S.A. House\n 2 Albany Court\n Albany Park\n Frimley\n Surrey GU15 2XA, United Kingdom\n\n (Info from Carroll Morgan )\n\n The AgendA is a personal desktop assistant (PDA) style machine. You\n can carry it along with you. It has chording input. You can also\n hook it up to your PC, or even program it.\n\n It costs just under 200 pounds, with 128K memory.\n===========\n\nThanks go to Chris Bekins for providing\nthe basis for this information.\n\nThanks to the numerous contributors:\n\nDoug Martin \nCarroll Morgan \nMandy Jaffe-Katz \nWes Hunter \nPaul Schwartz \nH.J. Woltring \nDan Sorenson \nChris VanHaren \nRavi Pandya \nLeonard H. Tower Jr. \nDan Jacobson \nJim Cheetham \nCliff Lasser \nRichard Donkin \nPaul Rubin \nDavid Erb \nBob Scheifler \nChris Grant \nScott Mandell \n\nand everybody else who I've probably managed to forget.\n\nThe opinions in here are my own, unless otherwise mentioned, and do not\nrepresent the opinions of any organization or vendor.", "\n: The upgrade to a Nanao 550i is now $765.\n: (this monitor will handle 1280x1024 at a vertical refresh\n: of 72-76Hz).\n\n\tNot according to Nanao. The 550i will not do better than 60Hz\n\tat 1280x1024. BTW, Gateway told me the same thing.\n\n\n-- \nPhil", "{Jason Haines} said\n \"what to do with old 256k\"\n to on 04-15-93 04:38\n\n JH> I was wondering if people had any good uses for old\n JH> 256k SIMMs. I have a bunch of them for the Apple Mac\n JH> and I know lots of other people do to. I have tried to\n JH> sell them but have gotten NO interest.\n\n How about collecting them all together (IE everyones) and\n selling them as a lot? The other thing is to give to a\n recycler.\n\n JH> So, if you have an inovative use (or want to buy\n JH> some SIMMs 8-) ), I would be very interested in hearing\n JH> about it.\n\n If they are free and you can send them real cheap! I would\n be intrested in them. hehehe Are these 2 chip or 8 chip\n devices what speed?\n\n JH> I have seen RAM disc storage devices but they have been\n JH> very pricey (plus I am still a little worried about having data\n JH> stored on RAM).\n\n Why? Do you use a RAM disk? :)\n\n Stephen Cyberman@Toz.Buffalo.NY.US\n Mangled on Fri 04-16-1993 at 19:58:29", "-> Who sells the special carbide drills used to drill pc boards?\n->I am looking for sizes smaller than #60, #65 or #70 would be good.\n\n-best deal i ever saw on carbides was at ELI electronics - Cambridge\n-Mass. Quite close to MIT, #70 drills @ $5.00 for a box of 50. ELI are\n-in the Boston fone book.\n\nActually, I think they are all #57. Their phone number is 617 547 5005\nand I will probably have some over at the MIT Flea this Sunday.\n/mike\n\n", "Two meg. sim that came from a PB100 for sale. I am asking $60 (postage\nincluded). If you are interested please e-mail me via internet. If you do\nnot\nhave internet availability you may contact me at 301/468-0241. ", "\n\n\nOK, here's my results so far....\n\n1: You have to define the monitor as LCD - it doesn't really support\n Analogue video input (It works, but isn't very linear...)\n\n2: The incoming sync pulses need inverting. This is best achieved\n with either a cmos XOR package or a transistor inverter.\n If you don't know how to do it, don't even contemplate it.. :-)\n\n3: It'll only work in standard VGA mode.\n\nOK, having said that, I'm trying to either find a circuit or IC\nwhich will act as a universal sync decoder.\n\nI want somethikng which basically only detects the leading sync\npulse edge, and doesn't care about the polarity, outputting\nthe -ve going pulses that the atari monitor requires.\n\nThere are 2 reasons for doing this\n\n1: VGA cards change their sync polarity depending which mode they're\n in - herc emulation is +,- while MVGA is +,+ for example.\n\n2: It means I don't have to put a toggle switch on the back of the\n monitor in order to be able to run it off both the atari and my\n IBM. Currently I have 3 (Yes, 3!) monitors sitting on my desk,\n and I want to get that number down as much as possible.\n Being able to use the atari monitor as a paper-white VGA\n will cut things down to 2. If I forget about Atari colour,\n I can get down to 1.\n\nUltimately, the best course of action is to get a multisync monitor,\nbut I'm as pressed for cash as anyone else, so it'll have to wait...\n\n\n", "\nI assume that you are literally trying to create a widget of type\ntextWidgetClass. Use the AsciiText widget instead.\n\nJim", "\n\n\n\t\t\t\tBy then it might be already 200$ cheaper :-))\n\nSame here at the U of MN, 1599$ for that bundle.\n\nPeter\n\n\n", "\n\n\n Actually the most flexible way to create temp files is to check for a TEMP or\nTMP environment variable and create the files on the drive and directory pointedto by the variable. This is pretty much a standard for DOS, Windows and OS/2\napplications.\n\n\n-- \nWhat I have to say is my own opinion and has no bearing on any other person or\norganization including my employer.", "Here is a list I get when I was combing through some microfilm one\nday here at Drexel while completely board. Most of these circuits are\npretty easy to constuct and can be done by a novice.\n\tThis is basically some stuff that could prove useful to you without\nhaving to sit down and either design or buy the stuff (not a good word, but I'm\ntired right now).\n\tHope you enjoy!\n\n\tIf you have any additions send them to me and I'll add them to the list\n. They don't have to be from this particular magazine, they just have to be\ninteresting!\n\n\tRADIO ELECTRONICS\n\nYear\tMonth\tPage\tArticle Name and/or discription\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n92\tApril\t31\tCar Audio Amplifier (270 Watts)\n\tMay\t41\tMidi Light Controller (Light control from music input)\n\t\t47\tSolid State Relay \n\t\t50\tDigital Altimeter\n\tJune\t53\tElectronic Thermostat\n91\tFebruary43\tAudio Sweep/Marker Generator (frequency response)\n\tApril\t43\tLine Power from 12 volts (12 VDC -> 110 VAC) (40 Watts)\n\tJune \t39\tElectronic Compass\n\tAugust\t55\tSpeaker Protector\n\tSept.\t33\tSolid State Tesla Coil\n\tOct.\t39\tVocal Effects/Mixer\n\tNov.\t58\tMusic on Hold (Play music for someone who is on hold on\n\t\t\t\tthe phone)\n\tDec.\t47\tTHD Analizer\n\t\t53\tBattery Tool\n\t\t63\tElectronic Fuse\n90\tJan.\t35\tAcoustic field Generator\n\t\t45\tPhone activated Audio Muting circuit\n\tFeb.\t31\tFrequency Probe\n\t\t37\tRadar Detector Tester\n\tMarch\t31\tUniversal Laboratory Power Supply\n\tApril \t33\tMorse/RTTY Detector\n\t\t43 \tCapacitance Adaptor (Capacitance add on for a DMM)\n\t\t46\tSolid State Wiper control\n\tMay\t37 \tUniversal Descrambler (for a TV)\n\tJuly\t31 \tDigital Dashboard (for a car)\n\tAugust\t41\tDigital Pressure gauge\n\tSept.\t33\tVocal Stripper (take the vocals away from music)\n\tOct.\t37\tRocket Altimeter (model rockets)\n\tDec.\t33\tBenchtop Frequency counter\n89\tJan\t55\tCarrier-Current Audio transmitter (audio through your\n\t\t\t\thouse's wiring)\n\t\t62 \tPlasma display globe\n\t\t70 \tAdvanced Control System\n\tFeb.\t55\tCarrier-Current Receiver\n\tMarch\t51\tHi-Fi Audio Amp for House or Car (High Power)\n\tMay\t41\tI-R Extender (extender for Infra-Red remotes)\n\tJuly\t31 \tLight beam communication\n\t\t38\tDigital Capacitance meter\n\tNov\t39 \tR-C Decade Box \n\t\t43\tDigital Compass\n\tDec\t37\tProgrammable Phasor Property Guard\n88\tJuly\t41 \tL-C Meter Part 1\n\tAugust 50\tL-C Meter Part 2\n87\tNov.\t107\tElectronic Combonation Lock\n86\tSept\t41\tStun Gun\n\tJune\t55\tClick and Pop filter for your stereo (removes clicks and\n\t\t\t\tpops when you play old LPs)\n\n-- From what I could see, you can order the circuit kits, finished or unfinished\n\tor you can order the parts that you can't get through a normal store", ": >over where it places its temp files: it just places them in its\n: >\"current directory\".\n\n: I have to beg to differ on this point, as the batch file I use\n: to launch cview cd's to the dir where cview resides and then\n: invokes it. every time I crash cview, the 0-byte temp file\n: is found in the root dir of the drive cview is on.\n\nI posted this as well before the cview \"expert\". Apparently, he thought he\nknew better.", "\n\nNo, VGALIB? Amazing.. I guess it was lost in all those subdirs :-)\nThanks for correcting me. It doesn't sound very appealing though, only\n320x200? I'm glad it wasn't something major I missed.", "I need a VESA driver for the Diamond Speedstar 24X that works. I've tried\nseveral and none work for the hicolor modes.", "Some one asked me recently why they when they used XQueryBestCursor to see\nif they could create of a given size it seemed to imply they could, but the\nserver did not create cursors of that size. Investigation showed that some X\nservers will happily return any size up to the size of the root window, while\nothers return some fixed limit of more reasonable size. The interesting thing\nto me is that the same server binary acts differently on different hardware -\na Sun4 with a cg2 will claim cursors up to root window size are OK, while a\nSun4 with a cg6 will stop at 32x32. So far I've also seen this behavior on\nNCD and Phase-X X terminals and have been told it also occurs on HPs. \nActually, the NCD is even more liberal - sizes much larger then the root\nwinodw are gladly returned as OK. Is XQueryBestCursor semi-broken or is this\nbehavior correct? I'd really like to see a 2000x2000 cursor!\n", "\nNot completly true. For AT class and later machines, IRQ5 is\nreserved for LPT2. Since it's rare to have a second parallel\nport in a PC, it's usually a good safe choice if you need an\ninterrupt.\n\nOn the other hand, we just ran into a problem with that here\nat work on a Gateway computer (4DX-33V). It has a Modem on COM1,\na Mouse on COM2, and the other serial port was set to COM3 (which\nnormally uses the same interrupt as COM1). We had a real fight\nwith a board when trying to use IRQ5, and discoverd the problem\nwas that Gateway had set it up such that COM3 used IRQ5. As soon\nas we disabled COM3, our problems went away. Grumble ... after\nseveral days of trying to figure out why the interrupt didn't work.", "\nHELLO,\nNew to this area so....\nI have read about some upgrades for the LC II, Doing some modification\nto make the thing run faster!\nIs the Performa 400 about the same as an lc and if so would the homemade\nspeed upgrade work??\nThanks\nBrad\n \n\n", "I bought a 386DX-40 motherboard for 50$... no documentation at all. Everything\nappears to work, except I'm having trouble getting a few of the LED connectors\nworking. I've looked at the manuals for 4 other motherboards, but the pin\nconfiguration doesn't look anything like what is on this board. Does this\npin arrangement look familiar to anyone out there??? Any hints on where I\ncan find this information?\n\n 1 10\n \"speaker\" . . . . . . . . . .\n \"keylock\" . . . . . . . . . .\n 11 ^ 20\n J23 |\n |The board came with a jumper vertically across\n these two pins.\n\nI can get the power/keylock to work across pins 11-15, reset across pins 9 and\n19, but would prefer not to blow something up by further experimentation.\nThe date on the board itself is 6/92, opti chips.\n\nI would really appreciate any help, and thank you in advance.", "Pair of Polk S4 for sale \n\nBrand New never opened\n\n$220.00", "My Apple 13\" RGB monitor has over the past few months gone brighter and\nbrighter and the colors are not as rich as before. Has anyone out there\nencountered a similar problem? Dows anyone happen to know what this problem\nmay be due to?\n", "Hi there,\n\nWe are running a 120 node Token ring with Windows 3.1 and Novell 3.11.\n\nEvery once in a while, we run into \"The Black Screen of Death\", a phrase\ncoined by Robert X. Cringely in a recent InfoWorld column. \n\nBasically, sometimes when you quit Windows, the screen goes black and\nyou get a nice little flashing cursor in the top left corner of your\nscreen. Also, sometimes when you exit to DOS, the same effect occurs.\nCringely hints that Microsoft and/or Novell has a patch for Windows'\nvirtual interrupt controller that may solve this. Neither company\nseems to know what I am talking about when I call them.\n\nHas anyone else noticed this phenomenon? \n\nIs there a fix for it?\n\nAny response is welcome.", "Hello everybody,\n\nI am searching for (business) information of Motif applications, to create a\nTOP-30 of most used WordProcessors, Spreadsheets, Drawing programs, Schedulers\nand Fax programs, etc..\n\nPlease mail me all your information or references. I will summaries the\nresults on this media.\n\n\nThank you in advance,\n\nAnton de Ruiter.", "Hey Larry,\n How can you be a comp sci major and never crash a damn computer.\nWhat does your CS dept teach you...or are you just that good of a programmer\nthat not one of your assembly programs have ever downed your machine.\n\n\nWhy do you bother putting up such stupid posts...or are you that ignorant.", "Hi,\n What presentation package would you recommend for a Bible teacher?\n I've checked out Harwards Graphics for Windows. I think its more\nsuitable for sales people than for preachers or Bible teachers to present\nan outline of a message.\n\n I'm looking for one that:\n* is great for overhead projector slides.\n* has or imports clip arts\n* works with Word for Windows or imports Word for Windows files.\n* works with inkjet printers\n If you know of any that meets part or all of the above, please let me know.\nPlease email your response as I don't keep up with the newsgroup.", "\nPPPPP OOOOO V V Persistance Of Vision Raytracer.\nP P O O V V\nP P O O V V\nPPPPP O O V V\nP O O V V\nP O O V V\nP OOOOO V\n\nAvailable on archie and wuarchive in graphics type directories.\n\nPS It's freeware.\n\n--", "I have uploaded the most recent Windows drivers for the Cirrus GD5426 \nchip based display cards to the uploads directory at ftp.cica.indiana.edu\n (file is 5426dr13.zip). They're very recent, I downloaded them from the \nCirrus BBS (570-226-2365) last night. If you are unable to get them there, \nemail me and maybe I can upload them to some other sites as well. \nI have a local bus based card (VL24 Bitblaster from Micron) but I think \nthe drivers work with ISA cards (or at least includes drivers for them).\n\nI found the new drivers to be a significant improvement over the 1.2 version, \nimproving my graphic winmarks (v3.11) by about 2 million (7.77 to 9.88) \nalthough this could be the result of intentional benchmark cheating on \nCirrus's part but I don't think so.\n\nFrom Steve Gibson's (columnist for Info World) graphic card comparisons \n(also found at the cica ftp site under the name winadv.zip) I extracted the \nfollowing for the sake of comparison:\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tWintach\n \t\tWinbn3.11\tWord\tSprsht\tCad\tPaint\tOverall\nSteve's system:\n486/33 VLB:\nATI Graphics Ultra Pro\t 9.33\t\t10.34\t 20.78\t8.28\t14.90\t 13.58\n\nmy system -\n486sx/33 VLB:\nVL24 Bitblaster\t\t 9.88\t\t 8.65\t 11.71\t18.84\t15.40\t 13.65\n\n\nIts no Viper, but I think its a hell of a deal at about a third of the cost of \nthe ATI card and when compared to the other cards included in Gibson's review.\n\nMicron system owner's, I would be interested to hear your opinions on the \nDTC 2270VL local bus disk controller. My system came with a Maxtor 7120 \ndrive (120 MB) and at first was only giving me disk winmarks of about 16 Kb/s, \nI am now at 22 Kb/s. Is this about as good as it gets? I can't get a Norton's\nsysinfo disk reading because the contoller intercepts the calls, at \nleast that was what the program said.\n", "AAAHHHH!!!!! Please someone tell me what I have done!!!\n\nMy 40 Meg miniscribe (8450AT) has a big sticker on the side that says\n\n***DO NOT ROTATE INTERRUPTER** ---> (big knob here)\n\nA big knob sticking off the side of the drive is pretty hard NOT to turn\nwhen removing the drive!\n\nI turned it. Now the drive won't spin up! Even with no data or controller\ncables plugged in.. just power... it won't spin up!!\n\nPlease help! \n\nThanks\n\n\n--\n-Paul Carroll", "I'm looking for a decent Windows news reader. I've given up on winvn 0.76\nsince it doesn't work very well with the winsock.dll of the IBM TCP/IP for\nDOS 2.1.\n\nWhat the status of Trumpet for Windows? Will it use the Windows sockets ?\nI liked it in DOS but had to abandon it since I started using NDIS to access\nour token ring (results in invalid class error :(\n\n\nBye!", "SALE: VOICE PROCESSING SYSTEM for IBM compatibles\n\n Item: DIALOGIC/41B Multi-line Voice Processing System\n \n Description: The DIALOG/41B is a PC XT/AT board that provides\n processing functions and call progress analysis for four \n independent phone lines simultaneously. The D/41B features \n the ability to record, playback, autoanswer, auto-dial,\n detect and generate DTMF tones, and perform telephone\n mamagement functions.\n\n With this card you can make your computer talk on\n 4 phone lines simultaneously. You can design your own\n ANSWERING SYSTEM or by one already programmed. You can build\n your own DIGITAL PAGER business and open up a business for \n VOICE MAILBOXES.\n \n Comes complete with manuals and demo software and programming\n libraries for C (UNIX and DOS). \n \n\n PRICE: LIST $1395.00\n YOU PAY $795.00 \n\n For more info send mail!", "I am involve in a Distant Learning project and am in need\nof Jpeg and Mpeg encode/decode source and object code.\nThis is a NOT-FOR PROFIT project that once completed I\nhope to release to other educational and institutional\nlearning centers.\nThis project requires that TRUE photographic images be sent\nover plain telephone lines. In addition if there is a REAL Good\nGUI lib with 3D objects and all types of menu classes that can\nbe use at both end of the transaction (Server and Terminal End)\nI would like to hear about it.\n \nWe recently posted an RFD announcing the OTG (Open Telematic Group)\nthat will concern itself with the developement of such application\nand that it would incorporate NAPLPS, JPEG, MPEG, Voice, IVR, FAX\nSprites, Animation(fli, flc, etc...).\nAt present only DOS and UNIX environment is being worked on and it\nour hope that we can generate enough interest where all the major\nplatform can be accomodated via a plaform independent API/TOOLKIT/SDK\nWe are of the mind that it is about time that such project and group\nbe form to deal with these issues.\nWe want to setup a repository where these files may be access such as\nSimte20 and start putting together a OTG FAQ.\nIf you have some or any information that in your opinion would be \nof interest to the OTG community and you like to see included in our\nfirst FAQ please send it email to the address below.\n \nThanks in Advance\n \nEd\nP.O. box 95901\nAtlanta Ga. 30347-0901\n(404)985-1198 zyxel 14.4\nepimntl@world.std.com \ned.pimentel@gisatl.fidonet.org\n\n", "I have an external hard drive I wish to use as startup disk.\nproblem is, when I switch on the mac, it boots on the internal HD,\nbut when I restart (warm boot) the mac, it boots from the external.\nhow do I make it boot directly from the external ?\n\nplease email replies if possible.\n\nthanks in advance.", "Are there anyone who wants to sell used 386dx-33 motherboard?\nIf you have one please let me know the price and the specification\n\nI am also interested in buying Trident VGA card (1Meg)", "Please don't post uuencoded bitmaps here. If you want to do so, put them\nin the alt.binaries.* areas. These files are very large and may crash\nsome users newsfeeds. It's also a waste of band width. Also, we all\nknow how to convert .gif to .bmp with many programs so it'd really not\nworth posting all of these .bmp files.\n - thanks\n", "\n\n\nIt's not a bad question: I don't have any refs that list this algorithm\neither. But thinking about it a bit, it shouldn't be too hard.\n\n1) Take three of the points and find the plane they define as well as\nthe circle that they lie on (you say you have this algorithm already)\n\n2) Find the center of this circle. The line passing through this center\nperpendicular to the plane of the three points passes through the center of\nthe sphere.\n\n3) Repeat with the unused point and two of the original points. This\ngives you two different lines that both pass through the sphere's\norigin. Their interection is the center of the sphere.\n\n4) the radius is easy to compute, it's just the distance from the center to\nany of the original points.\n\nI'll leave the math to you, but this is a workable algorithm. :-)\n\n\nAn alternate method would be to take pairs of points: the plane formed\nby the perpendicular bisector of each line segment pair also contains the\ncenter of the sphere. Three pairs will form three planes, intersecting\nat a point. This might be easier to implement.", "The little blue roller on the trackball interior is probably rubbing\nagainst its support, just push it down the pin so that it no longer\ntouches it. I had a similar problem.", "\n\nWhatever you do, don't FTP to the sites listed in my sig...\n \nYou won't like what you find...really. I beg you NOT to GO there!\nPLEASE!\n\n...e\n", "A surplus-dealing buddy of mine came up with two emulator pods:\n\n\tHP64220C (for HP 64100 development station). 8086 target\n\tprocessor. DIP head. Does not include board that plugs into\n\tthe 64100.\n\n\tApplied Microsystems 80C186/188 pod, LCC head.\n\nIf you have an interest in either, let me know. They look to\nbe in excellent condition. He doesn't know what to do with them, which\nmay mean that they'll be cheap.\n\n-- \n--------------------------------------------------------------------\n Dave Medin\t\t\tPhone:\t(205) 730-3169 (w)\n SSD--Networking\t\t\t\t(205) 837-1174 (h)\n Intergraph Corp.\n M/S GD3004 \t\tInternet: dtmedin@catbyte.b30.ingr.com\n Huntsville, AL 35894\t\tUUCP: ...uunet!ingr!b30!catbyte!dtmedin\n\n ******* Everywhere You Look (at least around my office) *******", "\nMicrosoft has a division called Microsoft Consulting that does what\nIBM FEs (field engineers) do.\n\nHowever, neither company just up and sends consultants to client sites. \nBoth companies charge very high hourly rates for on-site consulting unless\nthe client has already paid an annual service contract.", "\n\nThe protocol has to move the whole image from process memory to server\nmemory, this is the hog. The conversions in the XPutImage() are\nfast.\n\n\nYes, by utilizing the MIT-SHM extension, that provides an XPutImage\nderivate that uses shared memory. Fine fast.\n\n\nNo. You can still XPutImage all of the frames onto pixmaps (thus moving\nthem to server memory) and then replay them fastest using XCopyArea()\nBUT be aware, this is a major server memory bummer !\n", "\nI am selling a Western Digital 212 meg IDE HD, the Caviar 2200 model. The \naccess time is <15 ms, and it has a built in cache. It is BRAND NEW, still\nin the original static bag. Asking $275, obo. \n\n", "RE: Midwest Micro,\n\n\n\nArticle #61200 (61302 is last):\nFrom: wilson@schaefer.math.wisc.edu (Bob Wilson)\nSubject: Re: *** CONSUMER WARNING *** MidWest Micro (Ohio)\nDate: Thu Apr 22 15:12:28 1993\n\nI posted almost the same bad experience with Midwest Micro but our\n%^*^&*^&* news program only sent one paragraph out of the middle. In\naddition to the facts that:\n(a) the modems (I had ordered two) wouldn't work as documented\nand\n(b) the tech person had NO CLUE as to how it should work,\nit also turned out that:\n(c) one of the two modems they sent was clearly USED but the techs\nthought that was standard practice and\n(d) the modems made all three of my floppy drives quit working and\nmy CMS250 tape drive start running away.\n\nThat they are incompetent is one thing, but that they sell used stuff\nas new and won't even apologize for it is another. Stay away from\nthese crooks!\n\nBob Wilson\nShown 97%, press for more, 'q' to quit, or 'h' for help\n \nwilson@math.wisc.edu\nEnd of File, Press RETURN to quit\n\nBob,\nI have walked into Micro Center here in the Cleveland area and bought\na new track ball and picked the only one that was sealed in plastic\nrap. Only to get it home and oped it up to find a good year old USED\ndirty old track ball with a warranty card for some software package.\n\nI would never even think of installing anything that looked like\nit was used at all. You should of called Medwest Micro\nand made them do a PUS PULL TAG on it. They would of picked it up\nand sent you out a ner one the same day. \nThings get better in knowing how to but equipment after the FIRST try!", "I have an ATI Graph. Ultra Pro VLB w/2 megs, and have a small question\nabout Graphics Workshop for Windows. When I exit from it it says my\ncurrent driver can handle on 32768 colors when I am actually in \n1024x768x65000 color mode. Is this a driver problem, a GWS error, or\nwhat? I am using the 1.5(59) driver under Win 3.1. It correctly\nstates that I can display 16M colors when I switch to 800x600x24bit,\nthough.\nAnother question- Anybody know of any Viewers that support this card\nother than Windows viewers?\nAny help would be appreciated.\n\n", "\n\n\n\n\nI've had my Duo 230 for a few weeks now and suffer from both\nof the above problems. I reinstalled my system software twice\nin an effort to combat the problems - thinking they were\nsystem software problems. Initially reinstalling the system\nseemed to help but not anymore. Occasionally when I try to\nwake up the Duo I get a solid screen of horizontal lines on\nthe screen - it freezes.\n\nI also get the high-pitched hiss occasionally - but only at\nstartup.\n\nI've called the apple hotline (800 SOS-APPL) three times\nalready and finally they agreed something is astray after my\nDuo's screen would go dim and the hard drive spun down by\nitselft and put itself to sleep. This problem only occured\ntwice. Apple sent me a box to ship my Duo to be looked at in\nNew York but the problem now is intermittent and I can't\nafford to be without my Duo at this time.\n\nAnyone out there with these same problems?\n", "\nI Have Version 3.5.1 which I believe was needed for a 040 machine.\nYou should be able to get the newest version by calling their tech\nsupport at 1-800-456-5522 or if you have a modem you can get the\ndriver from their BBS at 801-778-4400.\n\n\n\ndean\n\n\n\n-- ", "I am trying to put together a new PC with VESA Local Bus. I would like\nto get VLB cards for Video and SCSI but I have heard of a problem with\nbus mastering controllers on VLB. Something to the effect that they will\nactually slow down a system. Anyone heard of this problem?\n\nSpecifically, I am interested in the Ultrastor 34F VLB SCSI controller.\nBefore I shell out the bucks for this thing I would like to get the\nstraight scoop from someone who knows. Does anyone have this controller?\nAny problems with it?\n\n\n-- \n", "\n\nToo right it does!\n\n\nThe --VERY VERY FIRST-- thing you do is make sure that --ALL-- files on\nthe floppies that you can currently read in the drive, which aren't\nalready on your HD or another floppy (if you have -two- floppy drives)\nget copied to your HD (and/or to a floppy in your other drive).\n\nIf you don't do this before fixing the alignment problem you have kissd\nthose files goodbye. (Well, you can -try- to re-misalign the drive back\nto read your floppies, but don't count on be able to do so!)\n\nGenerally, head alignment is something I'd only trust to a good repair\nshop (though there are/have been DIY guides).", "Last year my nine year old son fell in love with baseball and now\nlikes to play and to follow the professionals. I would like to buy\nhim a board game so he can catch a glimpse of and practise a little of\nthe managerial stragegy. I am not looking for a computer game or any\ntype of game where manual dexterity determines the winner. I am after\nsomething that he and his friends can spread out over a table on a\nrainy day and spend some thoughtful time over.\n\nI would appreciate the names of any recommended games. I don't follow\nthis newsgroup, so e-mail responses would be ideal.\n\n ....[MIchael]\n\n-- \nMGODDARD@EHD.HWC.CA : Michael Goddard : (613) 954-0169 : Fax (613) 952-9798\nB9, Environmental Health Centre, Tunney's Pasture, Ottawa, Canada, K1A 0L2\n\n", "\n\nMaybe I should point out that we are not talking about c.s.amiga.*.\nOnly comp.graphics.", "\nLets see... what MS products don't have major bugs in them? Oh, but\nthe fifth release the bugs are generally cleared up, even if their\ncustomers must buy new \"releases\" from them that are little more than\nbug fixes. Anyone who buys a $2500 computer system and then runs MS\nWindows on it is in desperate need of sympathy. \n\nOh wait! MS innovated the plastic housing on the MS mouse---didn't\nthey? \"Logitech Inside\"\n\n\n\nYou can't even really call it secondary creativity when a company\ngathers together a bunch of knock-off packages and peddles them to\nneophytes. If MS does anything, it appears someone has to do it\nfirst. It appears that MS is finding out that throwing money at\ntechnological problems is by no means a guaranteed solution.\n\n\n ---------------------------------------------", "We have a Gateway 486DX50 with a SMC Elite16 Series Ethercard Plus.\n\nWhen we use NCSA FTP to send from the Gateway with hash turned on, we see\n4 hash marks immediately. Then the computer r e a l l y drags. If we turn \noff the internal cache of the 486, the speed is better, but doesn't match\nthe speed when we receive to the Gateway.\n\nIt doesn't matter if we send from the Gateway or get to it: 4 hash marks and \nthen extreme slowness if the cache is not disabled.\n\nDoes anyone know any more about this? Is there a fix?\n\nThe Gateway was purchased in June, 1992.\n\nPlease respond directly. You wouldn't believe how slow the news is on this \nsystem. ", "\n\nAs a side note, in that same ad (MacWorld 6/93), they are selling the 50MHz\nPowercache for the IIsi with FPU for $575. For those thinking of upgrading\nto the 040 33 MHz Turbo (an upgrade costs $600 direct from Daystar), this comes\nout to $1175, about $200 cheaper than what most mail-order companies charge.", "thus\n\nCuriously, in modern PostScript, the point in a polygon problem can\nbe solved even more easily. To wit:\n\n%!\n%%Title: Point in Polygon\n%%Creator: Allen B (ab@cc.purdue.edu)\n%%For: the amusement of comp.graphics regulars\n%%LanguageLevel: 2\n%%DocumentNeededResource: humor sense thereof\n%%EndComments\n\n% This program will test whether a point is inside a given polygon.\n% Currently it uses the even-odd rule, but that can be changed by\n% replacing ineofill with infill. These are Level 2 operators,\n% so if you've only got Level 1 you're out of luck.\n%\n% The result will be printed on the output stream.\n%\n% Caution: only accurate to device pixels!\n% Put a huge scale in first if you aren't sure.\n\n% Point to test\n% PUT X AND Y COORDINATES HERE\n\n50 75\n\n% Vertices of polygon in counter-clockwise order\n% PUT ARRAY OF PAIRS OF COORDINATES HERE\n[\n[ 0 0 ]\n[ 100 0 ]\n[ 100 100 ]\n[ 67 100 ]\n[ 67 50 ]\n[ 33 50 ]\n[ 33 100 ]\n[ 0 100 ]\n]", "10). \n\n A 256K DRAM chip is a 256 kilobit chip whereas a 256K SIMM is a 256\nkilobyte memory module. The SIMM is a PCB with a 30 pin connector edge\nand on the SIMM are 8 256 kilobit DRAM chips (making the total memory 256\nKBytes.\n \n You are correct assuming that SIMMs will not fit into a LaserWriter.\nApple printers either require 64 pin SIMMs like those in the Mac IIfx or\nspecial memory chips. Contact your Apple dealer to find out exactly what\nkind of chips you need.", "Yes, we Put any book on disk for you. Fast and accurate. \n\nWe can also put any typewritten or printed articles, thesis, term papers,\netc. on disk for you.", "\nI would have appreciated an announcement of the policy change - \nDartmouth will not be able to run xv 3.0, and I'm probably going \nto have to take v2 off line (I somehow missed the \"shareware\"\ndesignation in the README of v2, and didn't realize that we were\nsupposed to register).\n\nI also debate whether this, with the new \"institutions must pay\"\npolicy belongs in the contrib directory on export - to me, \"contrib\"\nmeans \"contributed\" (i.e. no strings, except copyright) attached.\n", "\n\nthe Q700 will only do 8bit or 24bit color. if you want the higher\ncolor depth, it's 2MB's of VRAM altogether for a monitor up to 16\".\n\nfor a 21\" monitor, you can get 8bit max.\n\nhope this answers your questions.", "I am auctioning off the following comics. These minimum bids are set\nbelow what I would normally sell them for. Make an offer, and I will\naccept the highest bid after the auction has been completed.\n\nTITLE Minimum/Current \n--------------------------------------------------------------\nAlpha Flight 51 (Jim Lee's first work at Marvel)\t$ 5.00\nAliens 1 (1st app Aliens in comics, 1st prnt, May 1988)\t$20.00\nAmazing Spider-Man 136 (Intro new Green Goblin) $20.00\nAmazing Spider-Man 238 (1st appearance Hobgoblin)\t$50.00\nArcher and Armstrong 1 (Frank Miller/Smith/Layton)\t$ 7.50\nAvengers 263 (1st appearance X-factor) $ 3.50\nBloodshot 1 (Chromium cover, BWSmith Cover/Poster)\t$ 5.00\nDaredevil 158 (Frank Miller art begins) $35.00\nDark Horse Presents 1 (1st app Concrete, 1st printing)\t$ 7.50 \nH.A.R.D. Corps 1 \t\t\t\t\t$ 5.00\nIncredible Hulk 324 (1st app Grey Hulk since #1, 1962)\t$ 7.50\nIncredible Hulk 330 (1st McFarlane issue)\t\t$15.00\nIncredible Hulk 331 (Grey Hulk series begins)\t\t$11.20\t\nIncredible Hulk 367 (1st Dale Keown art in Hulk) $15.00\nIncredible Hulk 377 (1st all new hulk, 1st prnt, Keown) $15.00\nMarvel Comics Presents 1 (Wolverine, Silver Surfer) $ 7.50\nMaxx Limited Ashcan (4000 copies exist, blue cover)\t$30.00\nNew Mutants 86 (McFarlane cover, 1st app Cable - cameo)\t$10.00\nNew Mutants 100 (1st app X-Force) $ 5.00\nNew Mutants Annual 5 (1st Liefeld art on New Mutants)\t$10.00\nOmega Men 3 (1st appearance Lobo) $ 7.50\nOmega Men 10 (1st full Lobo story) $ 7.50\nPower Man & Iron Fist 78 (3rd appearance Sabretooth) $25.00\n 84 (4th appearance Sabretooth) $20.00\nSimpsons Comics and Stories 1 (Polybagged special ed.)\t$ 7.50\nSpectacular Spider-Man 147 (1st app New Hobgoblin) $12.50\nStar Trek the Next Generation 1 (Feb 1988, DC mini) $ 7.50\nStar Trek the Next Generation 1 (Oct 1989, DC comics) $ 7.50\nWeb of Spider-Man 29 (Hobgoblin, Wolverine appear) $10.00 \nWeb of Spider-Man 30 (Origin Rose, Hobgoblin appears) $ 7.50\nWolverine 10 (Before claws, 1st battle with Sabretooth)\t$15.00\nWolverine 41 (Sabretooth claims to be Wolverine's dad)\t$ 5.00\nWolverine 42 (Sabretooth proven not to be his dad)\t$ 3.50\nWolverine 43 (Sabretooth/Wolverine saga concludes)\t$ 3.00\nWolverine 1 (1982 mini-series, Miller art)\t\t$20.00\nWonder Woman 267 (Return of Animal Man) $12.50\nX-Force 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, X-Force card) $20.00\nX-Force 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, Shatterstar card) $10.00\nX-Force 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, Deadpool card) $10.00\nX-Force 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, Sunspot/Gideon) $10.00\n\nAll comics are in near mint to mint condition, are bagged in shiny \npolypropylene bags, and backed with white acid free boards. Shipping is\n$1.50 for one book, $3.00 for more than one book, or free if you order \na large enough amount of stuff. I am willing to haggle.\n\nI have thousands and thousands of other comics, so please let me know what \nyou've been looking for, and maybe I can help. Some titles I have posted\nhere don't list every issue I have of that title, I tried to save space.", "IK> Nntp-Posting-Host: elm\n\nIK> I know it sounds stupid, but....\n\nIK> Does anyone know how to control individual mouse buttons.\nIK> I am writing an application, which currently makes use of\nIK> ButtonPressMask, however this is invoked by the pressing\nIK> of any mouse button. I want to be able to restrict this\nIK> to one of the 3 buttons. I tried Button1PressMask, but\nIK> just get undefined errors. I know it can be done, and I\nIK> am pretty sure theres an easy answer to it, but I just don't know\nIK> what it is.\nIK> \"time is of the essence ...\"\n\nThere is no event mask for a particular mouse button press. However in your\nevent handler you can use the event structure passed in and query it to find\nwhich button was pressed i.e.\n\nvoid\nSomeEventHandler(Widget w, XtPointer data, XEvent *event)\n{\n /* Catch the button 1 (usually left button) */\n if ( event->xbutton.button == Button1 ) {\n /* do some action */\n } else {\n /* do nothing and exit from function */\n } \n}", "\nThe format for Word for Windows doc files is available from Microsoft.\nCall their Developer Support Services number (sorry, don't have it handy)\nand ask for the Word for Windows binary file format spec.\n\nWarning: It is not terribly useful, and you will need to do a *lot* of\nlooking before you can figure out how the stuff is stored.\n\nGeneral primer:\n\nWord for Windows stores its data in two chunks. The first chunk is the\nactual text in the file. This is all stored together and has nothing\nbut text and graphics. The second chunk is the formatting information.\n\nFor general use, to read a Word for Windows file, skip the first 384 bytes\nof the file (its a general header). Then read the remaining text until you\nhit binary data.", "Anyone familiar with this video card? What chipset does the winjet use - S3?\nAs I am in the market for a VLG video card, what is the best chipset among\nS3, Cirrus Logic and Tseng Lab (ATI is out of the question - too expensive) ?", "I understand Robert Centor has a program called ROC ANALYZER, that can be\nused to do receiver operating characteristic (ROC) curve analysis. Does \nanyone know if this is avaliable from an FTP site? If not, does anyone\nknow how to get a copy of it?\n\n==============================", "Cyrix have released a 386 pin-conpatible 486 clone. Designed to upgrade\nold 16 & 20MHz 386's the chips are also clockdoubling. Thus a 16MHz 386\ncan be transformed into a 32MHz 486, with a single chip upgrade.\n\nUnfortunately in Australia the DRu2 sells for $700A (16MHz) and $1000A\n(20MHz), about 1.5x the price of a 486dx33 motherboard with two vlb slots!!!\n\nHow much do these thing cost in the States?\nHow well do they work?\n\nThanks for any info,", "Would someone please email me the pinout for a PS/2 6-pin mini DIN mouse\nport? I'm trying to make an adapter for a serial mouse, and the dealer who\nknows what adapter works with the mouse I bought doesn't have it in stock.\nI have several different adapters, but none of them make sense based on\nwhat sketchy information I have about the port (they have connections to\n\"reserved\" pins).\n", "THe following listed tapes are priced to sell. A friend of mine wants\nto get rid of them, so let's just have some bids, why don't we?\n\nAll Are Tapes, BTW.\n\n\n\nAC/DC \t\tBack in Black \t\tgood condition\n \t\tRazor's edge \t\texcellent\nPoison \t\tOpen up and... \t\tExcellent\n \t\tFlesh & Blood \t\tExcellent\nGuns & Roses Appetite for Destr.. Fair\n \t\tUse your Ill. #1\tgood\n\t\tUSe your Ill. #2\tgood\nSkid Row\tBside ourselves\t\tTape OK, Case cracked\n\t\tSlave to the grind\texcellent\nJackyl\t\tJackyl\t\t\tExcellent\nBon Jovi\tKeep the Faith(single) Excellent\n\nTHis is for her, not for me...", "As we don't get a newsfeed I was wondering whether there was such a\nthing as a Xt mailing list (other than xpert@expo.lcs.mit.edu). I\nwould appreciate any info on this, (or X related mailing lists.)\n\n Thanks in advance,\n\n Leon", "Xcursor version 4.1 is now on export as xcursor4.1.tar.Z. I've added \na new option to determine if a requested cursor size is OK. Of course,\nyour server may lie!\n", "\n\nI'm assuming that you are referring to the 1304S, correct? What kind of flaws\nhave been reported? I've been using mine for about 6-7 months now, and I\nhaven't noticed any problems. Might they develop later, or did I get lucky\nand snag a good monitor?\n\nJust Curious,\njohn", "I had no possibility to join the\n\n 7th annual X Technical Conference \n January 18-20 1993\n Boston, MA\n\nNevertheless, I'm interested in information about the tutorials,\nexspecially about \n\n Tutorial ID: A-SECURITY\n Title: A Survey of X and Security\n\n Tutorial ID: F-ADMIN\n Title: X and the Administrator\n\nDoes anybody know, where I can get information (paper/mail) about these ?\n\nHas anybody information about Kerberos (escpecially in connection with \nX Display Manager xdm)?\n\nThanks,\n\nAndrea Winkler (Siemens Nixdorf Muenchen, Germany)\n\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------ \nS I E M E N S Andrea Winkler Internet: Andrea.Winkler@sto.mchp.sni.de\n------------- SNI STO XS 322 Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 D-8000 Munich 83 \nN I X D O R F Phone:(089)636-41449 FAX: (089)636-42833", "\nI got one from Microsoft tech support.\n", "\n\n\nAdobe Streamline has been out four a couple of years. It does a much better\njob than the autotracing functions which are built into illustration\nprograms. Of course, a higher resolution bitmap will produce a more\naccurate trace. The problem that I've run into though, is that when it\ncreates a detailed trace, it produces WAY more points than are necessary.\nIf I trace something manually, I use many less es points. The problem\nwith this is it produces BIG files which slow everything down, especially\nprinting.\n\nChuck", "\n You can get the ApplicationContext associated with a widget by calling\n XtWidgetToApplicationContext.\n", "I am working for a company which has only one connection to the Internet.\nThis is through a firewall gateway (unix workstation). I would like to be\nable to telnet to a host outside the company and set the DISPLAY to my PC\nwhich is running an X-terminal emulator (eXceed/W). The display can be set\nto the gateway workstation with no problem but when I set the variable to \nmy IP address I get a \"Error: Can't open display\" message. \n\nThis can't be that hard to work around can it?\n\nBTW I have no trouble running x-clients on local workstations (in the company)\nand having them display on my PC.", "Hi,\n\n\tI have a Humminbird HDR200 Depth Sounder for sale. It\nhas been used for 1 season on my sailboat. \n\t\n\tAll parts are included as well as the installation\ninstructions. It is even packed in the original box it came in. There\nis no damage to the unit or the transducer. In fact, the transducer\nwas mounted *inside* the hull in a piece of pipe glued to the hull.\nSo it led a \"sheltered\" life. The transducer can be mounted either inside\nthe hull as I did, or on the transom. It cannot be placed in a hole\ndrilled into your hull.\n\n\tIt is fully waterproof and fits into a 2\" hole in a bulkhead\n(that's where I had it installed) or into a standard dashboard on a\npowerboat. It reads depth to 199' and has a backlit LCD display. It has\nan adjustable shallow water alarm built in. \n\n\tI am changing out my instruments to another manufacturer that\noutputs the NMEA 0183 information. This little depth sounder works fine\nand is very stable.\n\n\n\tIt is usually priced as low as 130$ in some catalogs, I paid 150$.\n\n\n\tThe first 80$ takes it, or best offer. \n\n\n\n\t\t\t\tJohn R. Miller", "We are having a problem with a Quadra 950 that has stumped a couple of\ntechs sent to us by the vendor, as well as us :-)\nThis Quadra is 'stuffed' with 64Mb RAM, 2Mb VRAM and some large disk (400Mb\nI think). What happens is that after a certain variable interval of time\nthe video circuitry 'loses' vertical sync. It is quite apparent that the\nMac CPU is still ok, and the problem really seems to lie with the video\ncircuitry, since you can still save your documents, quit your aplpications,\neven pull down menus etc. (only the display is scrolling lik crazy, so it's\npretty hard to hit menu items ;-)\nWe had the original logic board replaced twice now, and the same problem\nhas been occurring on all boards although the inteval between occurrences has\nvaried. The first board had this problem every about 1hr, more often if the\ncache was turned OFF (yes OFF). This is the only symptom that is not\nobviously related to the video circuitry (after all the cache is on the CPU\nright?). The second board had the problem every about 10 minutes (we did\nnot keep it, rather we put the original back), the current board we have\nhas this problem a lot less often (has gone about a week without doing it,\nbut did it twice within an hour yesterday).\nThe technicians that have come out to try to figure it out seemed pretty\nsharp and tried a number of sensible things (most of which we had\npreviously tried ourselves anyway). These included:\n-swapping the RAM\n-swapping the VRAM\n-swapping monitors (3 different 13\" Apple RGB and 2 16\" Apple RGB)\n-swapping cables\n-disconnecting HD and booting from floppy\n-sacrificing various small mammals\nHere are some other facts:\n-when we put a RasterOps ProColor 32 on the NuBus, the problem is fixed\n (it does not occur with the internal video or the ProColor video out)\n-the vendor cannot reproduce the problem back in their shop on the boards\n that exhibit it in our lab\n-Apple is said to be getting a little bit pissed off at shipping us boards\n that they cannot find anything wrong with, and getting them shipped back as\n faulty according to us.\nHere are some speculations:\n-I bet that neither Apple nor the vendor has tested these boards with that\n much RAM and VRAM on them simultaneaously, which may have something to do\n with their finding it hard to reproduce the problem (though we can\n reproduce it with just 4Mb of RAM, so this is probably a red herring).\n-the vendor's representative blames 'metal in your walls' - claims that our\n walls have metal in them which interferes with the Mac's operation. We\n have another 950 in the lab which works like a charm (though it's not in\n the exact same spot....) Please don't tell me this is probably it, I do\n not want to believe it.\n-it's probably not poltergeists, since they do not have badges to get past\n security at the entrance to our site.\n\nHas anyone any ideas? Please? Please email as well as posting cause I seem\nto be spending a lot of time rebooting my mac lately and have a lot less\ntime available to read news! :-)\nThank you in advance.\nCarlo Tiana\nNASA Ames Research Center\ncarlo@vision.arc.nasa.gov\n", "Hi there!\n\nCould some kind soul tell me what is the price of LC/IIvi/IIvx\ncompatible 512kb VRAM SIMMs in the US nowadays? The price over here\n(Finland) is so ridiculously high (about $185 each in USD) that I\nthink it is worth the trouble to try to get them overseas.\n\nThanks\n", "Since I started this twist of this thread...\n\n\nActually you fell into the above because you said \"I believe\"\nIf you had used the rest of this post in your previous post\nI do not think anyone would have agrued with you.\n\n\n\nThe following three are not the competition for Windows 3.0 (IMHO of course)\nSystem 7 -- Does not currently run on Intel boxes\nNeXTSTep -- Rather expensive should be a competitor to Windows NT not 3.x\nUnix/X -- \" \" \" \" \" \" \" \" \" \" \"\n\n\nWith the exception of OS/2 all of the above will require most users\nto spend a very large sum of money to upgrade applications to ones that\nrun under these OS's. And basically money speaks louder than anything\nelse. You keep saying \"More stable multitasking\" is what you mean\n\"Not Multi-finder / GEM / GeoWorks co-operative multi-tasking but\nreal honest to goodness prioritized pre-emptive multi-tasking\"?\n\n\nBasically this is moot since most users have been able to share data for\nquite a long time, but are still to blind to know it.\n\n\nWhy pick it up? You stated the reasons behind your opinions. Stated them in \na very straight-forward, though over protective, manner. And aside from\nmy earlier comments about who actually is a competitor, I think we are in\nagreement.\n\nDoes Tim Glauert agree? Let's wait and see.\n-- \n\nDisclaimer: The opinions expressed are mine not those of BNR.", "Archive-name: jpeg-faq\nLast-modified: 16 May 1993\n\nThis FAQ article discusses JPEG image compression. Suggestions for\nadditions and clarifications are welcome.\n\nNew since version of 2 May 1993:\n * Added info on ImageViewer for NeXT.\n\n\nThis article includes the following sections:\n\n[1] What is JPEG?\n[2] Why use JPEG?\n[3] When should I use JPEG, and when should I stick with GIF?\n[4] How well does JPEG compress images?\n[5] What are good \"quality\" settings for JPEG?\n[6] Where can I get JPEG software?\n [6A] \"canned\" software, viewers, etc.\n [6B] source code\n[7] What's all this hoopla about color quantization?\n[8] How does JPEG work?\n[9] What about lossless JPEG?\n[10] Why all the argument about file formats?\n[11] How do I recognize which file format I have, and what do I do about it?\n[12] What about arithmetic coding?\n[13] Does loss accumulate with repeated compression/decompression?\n[14] What are some rules of thumb for converting GIF images to JPEG?\n\nSections 1-6 are basic info that every JPEG user needs to know;\nsections 7-14 are advanced info for the curious.\n\nThis article is posted every 2 weeks. You can always find the latest version\nin the news.answers archive at rtfm.mit.edu (18.70.0.226). By FTP, fetch\n/pub/usenet/news.answers/jpeg-faq; or if you don't have FTP, send e-mail to\nmail-server@rtfm.mit.edu with body \"send usenet/news.answers/jpeg-faq\".\nMany other FAQ articles are also stored in this archive. For more\ninstructions on use of the archive, send e-mail to the same address with the\nwords \"help\" and \"index\" (no quotes) on separate lines. If you don't get a\nreply, the server may be misreading your return address; add a line such as\n\"path myname@mysite\" to specify your correct e-mail address to reply to.\n\n\n----------\n\n\n[1] What is JPEG?\n\nJPEG (pronounced \"jay-peg\") is a standardized image compression mechanism.\nJPEG stands for Joint Photographic Experts Group, the original name of the\ncommittee that wrote the standard. JPEG is designed for compressing either\nfull-color or gray-scale digital images of \"natural\", real-world scenes.\nIt does not work so well on non-realistic images, such as cartoons or line\ndrawings.\n\nJPEG does not handle black-and-white (1-bit-per-pixel) images, nor does it\nhandle motion picture compression. Standards for compressing those types\nof images are being worked on by other committees, named JBIG and MPEG\nrespectively.\n\nJPEG is \"lossy\", meaning that the image you get out of decompression isn't\nquite identical to what you originally put in. The algorithm achieves much\nof its compression by exploiting known limitations of the human eye, notably\nthe fact that small color details aren't perceived as well as small details\nof light-and-dark. Thus, JPEG is intended for compressing images that will\nbe looked at by humans. If you plan to machine-analyze your images, the\nsmall errors introduced by JPEG may be a problem for you, even if they are\ninvisible to the eye.\n\nA useful property of JPEG is that the degree of lossiness can be varied by\nadjusting compression parameters. This means that the image maker can trade\noff file size against output image quality. You can make *extremely* small\nfiles if you don't mind poor quality; this is useful for indexing image\narchives, making thumbnail views or icons, etc. etc. Conversely, if you\naren't happy with the output quality at the default compression setting, you\ncan jack up the quality until you are satisfied, and accept lesser compression.\n\n\n[2] Why use JPEG?\n\nThere are two good reasons: to make your image files smaller, and to store\n24-bit-per-pixel color data instead of 8-bit-per-pixel data.\n\nMaking image files smaller is a big win for transmitting files across\nnetworks and for archiving libraries of images. Being able to compress a\n2 Mbyte full-color file down to 100 Kbytes or so makes a big difference in\ndisk space and transmission time! (If you are comparing GIF and JPEG, the\nsize ratio is more like four to one. More details below.)\n\nIf your viewing software doesn't support JPEG directly, you'll have to\nconvert JPEG to some other format for viewing or manipulating images. Even\nwith a JPEG-capable viewer, it takes longer to decode and view a JPEG image\nthan to view an image of a simpler format (GIF, for instance). Thus, using\nJPEG is essentially a time/space tradeoff: you give up some time in order to\nstore or transmit an image more cheaply.\n\nIt's worth noting that when network or phone transmission is involved, the\ntime savings from transferring a shorter file can be much greater than the\nextra time to decompress the file. I'll let you do the arithmetic yourself.\n\nThe other reason why JPEG will gradually replace GIF as a standard Usenet\nposting format is that JPEG can store full color information: 24 bits/pixel\n(16 million colors) instead of 8 or less (256 or fewer colors). If you have\nonly 8-bit display hardware then this may not seem like much of an advantage\nto you. Within a couple of years, though, 8-bit GIF will look as obsolete as\nblack-and-white MacPaint format does today. Furthermore, for reasons detailed\nin section 7, JPEG is far more useful than GIF for exchanging images among\npeople with widely varying color display hardware. Hence JPEG is considerably\nmore appropriate than GIF for use as a Usenet posting standard.\n\n\n[3] When should I use JPEG, and when should I stick with GIF?\n\nJPEG is *not* going to displace GIF entirely; for some types of images,\nGIF is superior in image quality, file size, or both. One of the first\nthings to learn about JPEG is which kinds of images to apply it to.\n\nAs a rule of thumb, JPEG is superior to GIF for storing full-color or\ngray-scale images of \"realistic\" scenes; that means scanned photographs and\nsimilar material. JPEG is superior even if you don't have 24-bit display\nhardware, and it is a LOT superior if you do. (See section 7 for details.)\n\nGIF does significantly better on images with only a few distinct colors,\nsuch as cartoons and line drawings. In particular, large areas of pixels\nthat are all *exactly* the same color are compressed very efficiently indeed\nby GIF. JPEG can't squeeze these files as much as GIF does without\nintroducing visible defects. This sort of image is best kept in GIF form.\n(In particular, single-color borders are quite cheap in GIF files, but they\nshould be avoided in JPEG files.)\n\nJPEG also has a hard time with very sharp edges: a row of pure-black pixels\nadjacent to a row of pure-white pixels, for example. Sharp edges tend to\ncome out blurred unless you use a very high quality setting. Again, this\nsort of thing is not found in scanned photographs, but it shows up fairly\noften in GIF files: borders, overlaid text, etc. The blurriness is\nparticularly objectionable with text that's only a few pixels high.\nIf you have a GIF with a lot of small-size overlaid text, don't JPEG it.\n\nComputer-drawn images (ray-traced scenes, for instance) usually fall between\nscanned images and cartoons in terms of complexity. The more complex and\nsubtly rendered the image, the more likely that JPEG will do well on it.\nThe same goes for semi-realistic artwork (fantasy drawings and such).\n\nPlain black-and-white (two level) images should never be converted to JPEG.\nYou need at least about 16 gray levels before JPEG is useful for gray-scale\nimages. It should also be noted that GIF is lossless for gray-scale images\nof up to 256 levels, while JPEG is not.\n\nIf you have an existing library of GIF images, you may wonder whether you\nshould convert them to JPEG. You will lose a little image quality if you do.\n(Section 7, which argues that JPEG image quality is superior to GIF, only\napplies if both formats start from a full-color original. If you start from\na GIF, you've already irretrievably lost a great deal of information; JPEG\ncan only make things worse.) However, the disk space savings may justify\nconverting anyway. This is a decision you'll have to make for yourself.\nIf you do convert a GIF library to JPEG, see section 14 for hints. Be\nprepared to leave some images in GIF format, since some GIFs will not\nconvert well.\n\n\n[4] How well does JPEG compress images?\n\nPretty darn well. Here are some sample file sizes for an image I have\nhandy, a 727x525 full-color image of a ship in a harbor. The first three\nfiles are for comparison purposes; the rest were created with the free JPEG\nsoftware described in section 6B.\n\nFile\t Size in bytes\t\tComments\n\nship.ppm\t1145040 Original file in PPM format (no compression; 24 bits\n\t\t\t or 3 bytes per pixel, plus a few bytes overhead)\nship.ppm.Z\t 963829 PPM file passed through Unix compress\n\t\t\t compress doesn't accomplish a lot, you'll note.\n\t\t\t Other text-oriented compressors give similar results.\nship.gif\t 240438 Converted to GIF with ppmquant -fs 256 | ppmtogif\n\t\t\t Most of the savings is the result of losing color\n\t\t\t info: GIF saves 8 bits/pixel, not 24. (See sec. 7.)\n\nship.jpg95\t 155622 cjpeg -Q 95 (highest useful quality setting)\n\t\t\t This is indistinguishable from the 24-bit original,\n\t\t\t at least to my nonprofessional eyeballs.\nship.jpg75\t 58009 cjpeg -Q 75 (default setting)\n\t\t\t You have to look mighty darn close to distinguish this\n\t\t\t from the original, even with both on-screen at once.\nship.jpg50\t 38406 cjpeg -Q 50\n\t\t\t This has slight defects; if you know what to look\n\t\t\t for, you could tell it's been JPEGed without seeing\n\t\t\t the original. Still as good image quality as many\n\t\t\t recent postings in Usenet pictures groups.\nship.jpg25\t 25192 cjpeg -Q 25\n\t\t\t JPEG's characteristic \"blockiness\" becomes apparent\n\t\t\t at this setting (djpeg -blocksmooth helps some).\n\t\t\t Still, I've seen plenty of Usenet postings that were\n\t\t\t of poorer image quality than this.\nship.jpg5o\t 6587 cjpeg -Q 5 -optimize (-optimize cuts table overhead)\n\t\t\t Blocky, but perfectly satisfactory for preview or\n\t\t\t indexing purposes. Note that this file is TINY:\n\t\t\t the compression ratio from the original is 173:1 !\n\nIn this case JPEG can make a file that's a factor of four or five smaller\nthan a GIF of comparable quality (the -Q 75 file is every bit as good as the\nGIF, better if you have a full-color display). This seems to be a typical\nratio for real-world scenes.\n\n\n[5] What are good \"quality\" settings for JPEG?\n\nMost JPEG compressors let you pick a file size vs. image quality tradeoff by\nselecting a quality setting. There seems to be widespread confusion about\nthe meaning of these settings. \"Quality 95\" does NOT mean \"keep 95% of the\ninformation\", as some have claimed. The quality scale is purely arbitrary;\nit's not a percentage of anything.\n\nThe name of the game in using JPEG is to pick the lowest quality setting\n(smallest file size) that decompresses into an image indistinguishable from\nthe original. This setting will vary from one image to another and from one\nobserver to another, but here are some rules of thumb.\n\nThe default quality setting (-Q 75) is very often the best choice. This\nsetting is about the lowest you can go without expecting to see defects in a\ntypical image. Try -Q 75 first; if you see defects, then go up. Except for\nexperimental purposes, never go above -Q 95; saying -Q 100 will produce a\nfile two or three times as large as -Q 95, but of hardly any better quality.\n\nIf the image was less than perfect quality to begin with, you might be able to\ngo down to -Q 50 without objectionable degradation. On the other hand, you\nmight need to go to a HIGHER quality setting to avoid further degradation.\nThe second case seems to apply much of the time when converting GIFs to JPEG.\nThe default -Q 75 is about right for compressing 24-bit images, but -Q 85 to\n95 is usually better for converting GIFs (see section 14 for more info).\n\nIf you want a very small file (say for preview or indexing purposes) and are\nprepared to tolerate large defects, a -Q setting in the range of 5 to 10 is\nabout right. -Q 2 or so may be amusing as \"op art\".\n\n(Note: the quality settings discussed in this article apply to the free JPEG\nsoftware described in section 6B, and to many programs based on it. Other\nJPEG implementations, such as Image Alchemy, may use a completely different\nquality scale. Some programs don't even provide a numeric scale, just\n\"high\"/\"medium\"/\"low\"-style choices.)\n\n\n[6] Where can I get JPEG software?\n\nMost of the programs described in this section are available by FTP.\nIf you don't know how to use FTP, see the FAQ article \"How to find sources\".\n(If you don't have direct access to FTP, read about ftpmail servers in the\nsame article.) That article appears regularly in news.answers, or you can\nget it by sending e-mail to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu with\n\"send usenet/news.answers/finding-sources\" in the body. The \"Anonymous FTP\nList FAQ\" may also be helpful --- it's usenet/news.answers/ftp-list/faq in\nthe news.answers archive.\n\nNOTE: this list changes constantly. If you have a copy more than a couple\nmonths old, get the latest JPEG FAQ from the news.answers archive.\n\n\n[6A] If you are looking for \"canned\" software, viewers, etc:\n\nThe first part of this list is system-specific programs that only run on one\nkind of system. If you don't see what you want for your machine, check out\nthe portable JPEG software described at the end of the list. Note that this\nlist concentrates on free and shareware programs that you can obtain over\nInternet; but some commercial programs are listed too.\n\nX Windows:\n\nXV (shareware, $25) is an excellent viewer for JPEG, GIF, and many other\nimage formats. It can also do format conversion and some simple image\nmanipulations. It's available for FTP from export.lcs.mit.edu (18.24.0.12),\nfile contrib/xv-3.00.tar.Z. Version 3.00 is a major upgrade with support\nfor 24-bit displays and many other improvements; however, it is brand new\nand still has some bugs lurking. If you prefer not to be on the bleeding\nedge, stick with version 2.21, also available from export. Note that\nversion 2.21 is not a good choice if you have a 24-bit display (you'll get\nonly 8-bit color), nor for converting 24-bit images to JPEG. But 2.21 works\nfine for converting GIF and other 8-bit images to JPEG. CAUTION: there is a\nglitch in version 2.21: be sure to check the \"save at normal size\" checkbox\nwhen saving a JPEG file, or the file will be blurry.\n\nAnother good choice for X Windows is John Cristy's free ImageMagick package,\nalso available from export.lcs.mit.edu, file contrib/ImageMagick.tar.Z.\nThis package handles many image processing and conversion tasks. The\nImageMagick viewer handles 24-bit displays correctly; for colormapped\ndisplays, it does better (though slower) color quantization than XV or the\nbasic free JPEG software.\n\nBoth of the above are large, complex packages. If you just want a simple\nimage viewer, try xloadimage or xli. xloadimage supports JPEG in its latest\nrelease, 3.03. xloadimage is free and available from export.lcs.mit.edu,\nfile contrib/xloadimage-3.03.tar.Z. xli is a variant version of xloadimage,\nsaid by its fans to be somewhat faster and more robust than the original.\n(The current xli is indeed faster and more robust than the current\nxloadimage, at least with respect to JPEG files, because it has the IJG v4\ndecoder while xloadimage 3.03 is using a hacked-over v1. The next\nxloadimage release will fix this.) xli is also free and available from\nexport.lcs.mit.edu, file contrib/xli.1.14.tar.Z. Both programs are said\nto do the right thing with 24-bit displays.\n\n\nMS-DOS:\n\nThis covers plain DOS; for Windows or OS/2 programs, see the next headings.\n\nOne good choice is Eric Praetzel's free DVPEG, which views JPEG and GIF files.\nThe current version, 2.5, is available by FTP from sunee.uwaterloo.ca\n(129.97.50.50), file pub/jpeg/viewers/dvpeg25.zip. This is a good basic\nviewer that works on either 286 or 386/486 machines. The user interface is\nnot flashy, but it's functional.\n\nAnother freeware JPEG/GIF/TGA viewer is Mohammad Rezaei's Hiview. The\ncurrent version, 1.2, is available from Simtel20 and mirror sites (see NOTE\nbelow), file msdos/graphics/hv12.zip. Hiview requires a 386 or better CPU\nand a VCPI-compatible memory manager (QEMM386 and 386MAX work; Windows and\nOS/2 do not). Hiview is currently the fastest viewer for images that are no\nbigger than your screen. For larger images, it scales the image down to fit\non the screen (rather than using panning/scrolling as most viewers do).\nYou may or may not prefer this approach, but there's no denying that it\nslows down loading of large images considerably. Note: installation is a\nbit tricky; read the directions carefully!\n\nA shareware alternative is ColorView for DOS ($30). This is easier to\ninstall than either of the two freeware alternatives. Its user interface is\nalso much spiffier-looking, although personally I find it harder to use ---\nmore keystrokes, inconsistent behavior. It is faster than DVPEG but a\nlittle slower than Hiview, at least on my hardware. (For images larger than\nscreen size, DVPEG and ColorView seem to be about the same speed, and both\nare faster than Hiview.) The current version is 2.1, available from\nSimtel20 and mirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/graphics/dcview21.zip.\nRequires a VESA graphics driver; if you don't have one, look in vesadrv2.zip\nor vesa-tsr.zip from the same directory. (Many recent PCs have a built-in\nVESA driver, so don't try to load a VESA driver unless ColorView complains\nthat the driver is missing.)\n\nA second shareware alternative is Fullview, which has been kicking around\nthe net for a while, but I don't know any stable archive location for it.\nThe current (rather old) version is inferior to the above viewers anyway.\nThe author tells me that a new version of Fullview will be out shortly\nand it will be submitted to the Simtel20 archives at that time.\n\nThe well-known GIF viewer CompuShow (CSHOW) supports JPEG in its latest\nrevision, 8.60a. However, CSHOW's JPEG implementation isn't very good:\nit's slow (about half the speed of the above viewers) and image quality is\npoor except on hi-color displays. Too bad ... it'd have been nice to see a\ngood JPEG capability in CSHOW. Shareware, $25. Available from Simtel20 and\nmirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/gif/cshw860a.zip.\n\nDue to the remarkable variety of PC graphics hardware, any one of these\nviewers might not work on your particular machine. If you can't get *any*\nof them to work, you'll need to use one of the following conversion programs\nto convert JPEG to GIF, then view with your favorite GIF viewer. (If you\nhave hi-color hardware, don't use GIF as the intermediate format; try to\nfind a TARGA-capable viewer instead. VPIC5.0 is reputed to do the right\nthing with hi-color displays.)\n\nThe Independent JPEG Group's free JPEG converters are FTPable from Simtel20\nand mirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/graphics/jpeg4.zip (or\njpeg4386.zip if you have a 386 and extended memory). These files are DOS\ncompilations of the free source code described in section 6B; they will\nconvert JPEG to and from GIF, Targa, and PPM formats.\n\nHandmade Software offers free JPEG<=>GIF conversion tools, GIF2JPG/JPG2GIF.\nThese are slow and are limited to conversion to and from GIF format; in\nparticular, you can't get 24-bit color output from a JPEG. The major\nadvantage of these tools is that they will read and write HSI's proprietary\nJPEG format as well as the Usenet-standard JFIF format. Since HSI-format\nfiles are rather widespread on BBSes, this is a useful capability. Version\n2.0 of these tools is free (prior versions were shareware). Get it from\nSimtel20 and mirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/graphics/gif2jpg2.zip.\nNOTE: do not use HSI format for files to be posted on Internet, since it is\nnot readable on non-PC platforms.\n\nHandmade Software also has a shareware image conversion and manipulation\npackage, Image Alchemy. This will translate JPEG files (both JFIF and HSI\nformats) to and from many other image formats. It can also display images.\nA demo version of Image Alchemy version 1.6.2 is available from Simtel20 and\nmirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/graphics/alch162.zip.\n\nNOTE ABOUT SIMTEL20: The Internet's key archive site for PC-related programs\nis Simtel20, full name wsmr-simtel20.army.mil (192.88.110.20). Simtel20\nruns a non-Unix system with weird directory names; where this document\nrefers to directory (eg) \"msdos/graphics\" at Simtel20, that really means\n\"pd1:\". If you are not physically on MILnet, you should\nexpect rather slow FTP transfer rates from Simtel20. There are several\nInternet sites that maintain copies (mirrors) of the Simtel20 archives;\nmost FTP users should go to one of the mirror sites instead. A popular USA\nmirror site is oak.oakland.edu (141.210.10.117), which keeps Simtel20 files\nin (eg) \"/pub/msdos/graphics\". If you have no FTP capability, you can\nretrieve files from Simtel20 by e-mail; see informational postings in\ncomp.archives.msdos.announce to find out how. If you are outside the USA,\nconsult the same newsgroup to learn where your nearest Simtel20 mirror is.\n\nMicrosoft Windows:\n\nThere are several Windows programs capable of displaying JPEG images.\n(Windows viewers are generally slower than DOS viewers on the same hardware,\ndue to Windows' system overhead. Note that you can run the DOS conversion\nprograms described above inside a Windows DOS window.)\n\nThe newest entry is WinECJ, which is free and EXTREMELY fast. Version 1.0\nis available from ftp.rahul.net, file /pub/bryanw/pc/jpeg/wecj.zip.\nRequires Windows 3.1 and 256-or-more-colors mode. This is a no-frills\nviewer with the bad habit of hogging the machine completely while it\ndecodes; and the image quality is noticeably worse than other viewers.\nBut it's so fast you'll use it anyway, at least for previewing...\n\nJView is freeware, fairly fast, has good on-line help, and can write out the\ndecompressed image in Windows BMP format; but it can't create new JPEG\nfiles, and it doesn't view GIFs. JView also lacks some other useful\nfeatures of the shareware viewers (such as brightness adjustment), but it's\nan excellent basic viewer. The current version, 0.9, is available from\nftp.cica.indiana.edu (129.79.20.84), file pub/pc/win3/desktop/jview090.zip.\n(Mirrors of this archive can be found at some other Internet sites,\nincluding wuarchive.wustl.edu.)\n\nWinJPEG (shareware, $20) displays JPEG,GIF,Targa,TIFF, and BMP image files;\nit can write all of these formats too, so it can be used as a converter.\nIt has some other nifty features including color-balance adjustment and\nslideshow. The current version is 2.1, available from Simtel20 and mirror\nsites (see NOTE above), file msdos/windows3/winjp210.zip. (This is a slow\n286-compatible version; if you register, you'll get the 386-only version,\nwhich is roughly 25% faster.)\n\nColorView is another shareware entry ($30). This was an early and promising\ncontender, but it has not been updated in some time, and at this point it\nhas no real advantages over WinJPEG. If you want to try it anyway, the\ncurrent version is 0.97, available from ftp.cica.indiana.edu, file\npub/pc/win3/desktop/cview097.zip. (I understand that a new version will\nbe appearing once the authors are finished with ColorView for DOS.)\n\nDVPEG (see DOS heading) also works under Windows, but only in full-screen\nmode, not in a window.\n\nOS/2:\n\nThe following files are available from hobbes.nmsu.edu (128.123.35.151).\nNote: check /pub/uploads for more recent versions --- the hobbes moderator\nis not very fast about moving uploads into their permanent directories.\n/pub/os2/2.x/graphics/jpegv4.zip\n 32-bit version of free IJG conversion programs, version 4.\n/pub/os2/all/graphics/jpeg4-16.zip\n 16-bit version of same, for OS/2 1.x.\n/pub/os2/2.x/graphics/imgarc12.zip\n Image Archiver 1.02: image conversion/viewing with PM graphical interface.\n Strong on conversion functions, viewing is a bit weaker. Shareware, $15.\n/pub/os2/2.x/graphics/pmjpeg11.zip\n PMJPEG 1.1: OS/2 2.x port of WinJPEG, a popular viewer for Windows\n (see description in Windows section). Shareware, $20.\n/pub/os2/2.x/graphics/pmview85.zip\n PMView 0.85: JPEG/GIF/BMP/Targa/PCX viewer. GIF viewing very fast,\n JPEG viewing roughly the same speed as the above two programs. Has\n image manipulation & slideshow functions. Shareware, $20.\n\nMacintosh:\n\nMost Mac JPEG programs rely on Apple's JPEG implementation, which is part of\nthe QuickTime system extension; so you need to have QuickTime installed.\nTo use QuickTime, you need a 68020 or better CPU and you need to be running\nSystem 6.0.7 or later. (If you're running System 6, you must also install\nthe 32-bit QuickDraw extension; this is built-in on System 7.) You can get\nQuickTime by FTP from ftp.apple.com, file dts/mac/quicktime/quicktime.hqx.\n(As of 11/92, this file contains QuickTime 1.5, which is better than QT 1.0\nin several ways. With respect to JPEG, it is marginally faster and\nconsiderably less prone to crash when fed a corrupt JPEG file. However,\nsome applications seem to have compatibility problems with QT 1.5.)\n\nMac users should keep in mind that QuickTime's JPEG format, PICT/JPEG, is\nnot the same as the Usenet-standard JFIF JPEG format. (See section 10 for\ndetails.) If you post images on Usenet, make sure they are in JFIF format.\nMost of the programs mentioned below can generate either format.\n\nThe first choice is probably JPEGView, a free program for viewing images\nthat are in JFIF format, PICT/JPEG format, or GIF format. It also can\nconvert between the two JPEG formats. The current version, 2.0, is a big\nimprovement over prior versions. Get it from sumex-aim.stanford.edu\n(36.44.0.6), file /info-mac/app/jpeg-view-20.hqx. Requires System 7 and\nQuickTime. On 8-bit displays, JPEGView usually produces the best color\nimage quality of all the currently available Mac JPEG viewers. JPEGView can\nview large images in much less memory than other Mac viewers; in fact, it's\nthe only one that can deal with JPEG images much over 640x480 pixels on a\ntypical 4MB Mac. Given a large image, JPEGView automatically scales it down\nto fit on the screen, rather than presenting scroll bars like most other\nviewers. (You can zoom in on any desired portion, though.) Some people\nlike this behavior, some don't. Overall, JPEGView's user interface is very\nwell thought out.\n\nGIFConverter, a shareware ($40) image viewer/converter, supports JFIF and\nPICT/JPEG, as well as GIF and several other image formats. The latest\nversion is 2.3.2. Get it from sumex-aim.stanford.edu, file\n/info-mac/art/gif/gif-converter-232.hqx. Requires System 6.0.5 or later.\nGIFConverter is not better than JPEGView as a plain JPEG/GIF viewer, but\nit has much more extensive image manipulation and format conversion\ncapabilities, so you may find it worth its shareware fee if you do a lot of\nplaying around with images. Also, the newest version of GIFConverter can\nload and save JFIF images *without* QuickTime, so it is your best bet if\nyour machine is too old to run QuickTime. (But it's faster with QuickTime.)\nNote: If GIFConverter runs out of memory trying to load a large JPEG, try\nconverting the file to GIF with JPEG Convert, then viewing the GIF version.\n\nJPEG Convert, a Mac version of the free IJG JPEG conversion utilities, is\navailable from sumex-aim.stanford.edu, file /info-mac/app/jpeg-convert-10.hqx.\nThis will run on any Mac, but it only does file conversion, not viewing.\nYou can use it in conjunction with any GIF viewer.\n\nPrevious versions of this FAQ recommended Imagery JPEG v0.6, a JPEG<=>GIF\nconverter based on an old version of the IJG code. If you are using this\nprogram, you definitely should replace it with JPEG Convert.\n\nApple's free program PictPixie can view images in JFIF, QuickTime JPEG, and\nGIF format, and can convert between these formats. You can get PictPixie\nfrom ftp.apple.com, file dts/mac/quicktime/qt.1.0.stuff/pictpixie.hqx.\nRequires QuickTime. PictPixie was intended as a developer's tool, and it's\nreally not the best choice unless you like to fool around with QuickTime.\nSome of its drawbacks are that it requires lots of memory, it produces\nrelatively poor color image quality on anything less than a 24-bit display,\nand it has a relatively unfriendly user interface. Worse, PictPixie is an\nunsupported program, meaning it has some minor bugs that Apple does not\nintend to fix. (There is an old version of PictPixie, called\nPICTCompressor, floating around the net. If you have this you should trash\nit, as it's even buggier. Also, the QuickTime Starter Kit includes a much\ncleaned-up descendant of PictPixie called Picture Compressor. Note that\nPicture Compressor is NOT free and may not be distributed on the net.)\n\nStorm Technology's Picture Decompress is a free JPEG viewer/converter.\nThis rather old program is inferior to the above programs in many ways, but\nit will run without System 7 or QuickTime, so you may be forced to use it on\nolder systems. (It does need 32-bit QuickDraw, so really old machines can't\nuse it.) You can get it from sumex-aim.stanford.edu, file\n/info-mac/app/picture-decompress-201.hqx. You must set the file type of a\ndownloaded image file to 'JPEG' to allow Picture Decompress to open it.\n\nIf your machine is too old to run 32-bit QuickDraw (a Mac Plus for instance),\nGIFConverter is your only choice for single-program JPEG viewing. If you\ndon't want to pay for GIFConverter, use JPEG Convert and a free GIF viewer.\n\nMore and more commercial Mac applications are supporting JPEG, although not\nall can deal with the Usenet-standard JFIF format. Adobe Photoshop, version\n2.0.1 or later, can read and write JFIF-format JPEG files (use the JPEG\nplug-in from the Acquire menu). You must set the file type of a downloaded\nJPEG file to 'JPEG' to allow Photoshop to recognize it.\n\nAmiga:\n\n(Most programs listed in this section are stored in the AmiNet archive at\namiga.physik.unizh.ch (130.60.80.80). There are many mirror sites of this\narchive and you should try to use the closest one. In the USA, a good\nchoice is wuarchive.wustl.edu; look under /mirrors/amiga.physik.unizh.ch/...)\n\nHamLab Plus is an excellent JPEG viewer/converter, as well as being a\ngeneral image manipulation tool. It's cheap (shareware, $20) and can read\nseveral formats besides JPEG. The current version is 2.0.8. A demo version\nis available from amiga.physik.unizh.ch (and mirror sites), file\namiga/gfx/edit/hamlab208d.lha. The demo version will crop images larger\nthan 512x512, but it is otherwise fully functional.\n\nRend24 (shareware, $30) is an image renderer that can display JPEG, ILBM,\nand GIF images. The program can be used to create animations, even\ncapturing frames on-the-fly from rendering packages like Lightwave. The\ncurrent version is 1.05, available from amiga.physik.unizh.ch (and mirror\nsites), file amiga/os30/gfx/rend105.lha. (Note: although this directory is\nsupposedly for AmigaDOS 3.0 programs, the program will also run under\nAmigaDOS 1.3, 2.04 or 2.1.)\n\nViewtek is a free JPEG/ILBM/GIF/ANIM viewer. The current version is 1.04,\navailable from amiga.physik.unizh.ch (and mirror sites), file\namiga/gfx/show/ViewTek104.lha.\n\nIf you're willing to spend real money, there are several commercial packages\nthat support JPEG. Two are written by Thomas Krehbiel, the author of Rend24\nand Viewtek. These are CineMorph, a standalone image morphing package, and\nImageFX, an impressive 24-bit image capture, conversion, editing, painting,\neffects and prepress package that also includes CineMorph. Both are\ndistributed by Great Valley Products. Art Department Professional (ADPro),\nfrom ASDG Inc, is the most widely used commercial image manipulation\nsoftware for Amigas. ImageMaster, from Black Belt Systems, is another\nwell-regarded commercial graphics package with JPEG support.\n\nThe free IJG JPEG software is available compiled for Amigas from\namiga.physik.unizh.ch (and mirror sites) in directory amiga/gfx/conv, file\nAmigaJPEGV4.lha. These programs convert JPEG to/from PPM,GIF,Targa formats.\n\nThe Amiga world is heavily infested with quick-and-dirty JPEG programs, many\nbased on an ancient beta-test version of the free IJG JPEG software (thanks\nto a certain magazine that published same on its disk-of-the-month, without\nso much as notifying the authors). Among these are \"AugJPEG\", \"NewAmyJPEG\",\n\"VJPEG\", and probably others I have not even heard of. In my opinion,\nanything older than IJG version 3 (March 1992) is not worth the disk space\nit's stored on; if you have such a program, trash it and get something newer.\n\nAtari ST:\n\nThe free IJG JPEG software is available compiled for Atari ST, TT, etc,\nfrom atari.archive.umich.edu, file /atari/Graphics/jpeg4bin.zoo.\nThese programs convert JPEG to/from PPM, GIF, Targa formats.\n\nFor monochrome ST monitors, try MGIF, which manages to achieve four-level\ngrayscale effect by flickering. Version 4.1 reads JPEG files. Available\nfrom atari.archive.umich.edu, file /atari/Graphics/mgif41b.zoo.\n\nI have not heard of any other free or shareware JPEG-capable viewers for\nAtaris, but surely there must be some by now? Pointers appreciated.\n\nAcorn Archimedes:\n\n!ChangeFSI, supplied with RISC OS 3 version 3.10, can convert from and view\nJPEG JFIF format. Provision is also made to convert images to JPEG,\nalthough this must be done from the CLI rather than by double-clicking.\n\nRecent versions (since 7.11) of the shareware program Translator can handle\nJPEG, along with about 30 other image formats. While older versions can be\nfound on some Archimedes bboards, the current version is only available by\nregistering with the author, John Kortink, Nutterbrink 31, 7544 WJ, Enschede,\nThe Netherlands. Price 35 Dutch guilders (about $22 or 10 pounds).\n\nThere's also a commercial product called !JPEG which provides JPEG read/write\nfunctionality and direct JPEG viewing, as well as a host of other image\nformat conversion and processing options. This is more expensive but not\nnecessarily better than the above programs. Contact: DT Software, FREEPOST,\nCambridge, UK. Tel: 0223 841099.\n\nNeXT:\n\nImageViewer is a PD utility that displays images and can do some format\nconversions. The current version reads JPEG but does not write it.\nImageViewer is available from the standard NeXT archives at\nsonata.cc.purdue.edu and cs.orst.edu, somewhere in /pub/next (both are\ncurrently being re-organized, so it's hard to point to specific\nsub-directories). Note that there is an older version floating around that\ndoes not support JPEG.\n\n\nPortable software for almost any system:\n\nIf none of the above fits your situation, you can obtain and compile the free\nJPEG conversion software described in 6B. You'll also need a viewer program.\nIf your display is 8 bits or less, any GIF viewer will do fine; if you have a\ndisplay with more color capability, try to find a viewer that can read Targa\nor PPM 24-bit image files.\n\nThere are numerous commercial JPEG offerings, with more popping up every\nday. I recommend that you not spend money on one of these unless you find\nthe available free or shareware software vastly too slow. In that case,\npurchase a hardware-assisted product. Ask pointed questions about whether\nthe product complies with the final JPEG standard and about whether it can\nhandle the JFIF file format; many of the earliest commercial releases are\nnot and never will be compatible with anyone else's files.\n\n\n[6B] If you are looking for source code to work with:\n\nFree, portable C code for JPEG compression is available from the Independent\nJPEG Group, which I lead. A package containing our source code,\ndocumentation, and some small test files is available from several places.\nThe \"official\" archive site for this source code is ftp.uu.net (137.39.1.9\nor 192.48.96.9). Look under directory /graphics/jpeg; the current release\nis jpegsrc.v4.tar.Z. (This is a compressed TAR file; don't forget to\nretrieve in binary mode.) You can retrieve this file by FTP or UUCP.\nIf you are on a PC and don't know how to cope with .tar.Z format, you may\nprefer ZIP format, which you can find at Simtel20 and mirror sites (see NOTE\nabove), file msdos/graphics/jpegsrc4.zip. This file will also be available on\nCompuServe, in the GRAPHSUPPORT forum (GO PICS), library 15, as jpsrc4.zip.\nIf you have no FTP access, you can retrieve the source from your nearest\ncomp.sources.misc archive; version 4 appeared as issues 55-72 of volume 34.\n(If you don't know how to retrieve comp.sources.misc postings, see the FAQ\narticle \"How to find sources\", referred to at the top of section 6.)\n\nThe free JPEG code provides conversion between JPEG \"JFIF\" format and image\nfiles in GIF, PBMPLUS PPM/PGM, Utah RLE, and Truevision Targa file formats.\nThe core compression and decompression modules can easily be reused in other\nprograms, such as image viewers. The package is highly portable; we have\ntested it on many machines ranging from PCs to Crays.\n\nWe have released this software for both noncommercial and commercial use.\nCompanies are welcome to use it as the basis for JPEG-related products.\nWe do not ask a royalty, although we do ask for an acknowledgement in\nproduct literature (see the README file in the distribution for details).\nWe hope to make this software industrial-quality --- although, as with\nanything that's free, we offer no warranty and accept no liability.\n\nThe Independent JPEG Group is a volunteer organization; if you'd like to\ncontribute to improving our software, you are welcome to join.\n\n\n[7] What's all this hoopla about color quantization?\n\nMost people don't have full-color (24 bit per pixel) display hardware.\nTypical display hardware stores 8 or fewer bits per pixel, so it can display\n256 or fewer distinct colors at a time. To display a full-color image, the\ncomputer must map the image into an appropriate set of representative\ncolors. This process is called \"color quantization\". (This is something\nof a misnomer, \"color selection\" would be a better term. We're stuck with\nthe standard usage though.)\n\nClearly, color quantization is a lossy process. It turns out that for most\nimages, the details of the color quantization algorithm have MUCH more impact\non the final image quality than do any errors introduced by JPEG (except at\nthe very lowest JPEG quality settings).\n\nSince JPEG is a full-color format, converting a color JPEG image for display\non 8-bit-or-less hardware requires color quantization. This is true for\n*all* color JPEGs: even if you feed a 256-or-less-color GIF into JPEG, what\ncomes out of the decompressor is *not* 256 colors, but thousands of colors.\nThis happens because JPEG's lossiness affects each pixel a little\ndifferently, so two pixels that started with identical colors will probably\ncome out with slightly different colors. Each original color gets \"smeared\"\ninto a group of nearby colors. Therefore quantization is always required to\ndisplay a color JPEG on a colormapped display, regardless of the image\nsource. The only way to avoid quantization is to ask for gray-scale output.\n\n(Incidentally, because of this effect it's nearly meaningless to talk about\nthe number of colors used by a JPEG image. Even if you attempted to count\nthe number of distinct pixel values, different JPEG decoders would give you\ndifferent results because of roundoff error differences. I occasionally see\nposted images described as \"256-color JPEG\". This tells me that the poster\n(a) hasn't read this FAQ and (b) probably converted the JPEG from a GIF.\nJPEGs can be classified as color or gray-scale (just like photographs), but\nnumber of colors just isn't a useful concept for JPEG.)\n\nOn the other hand, a GIF image by definition has already been quantized to\n256 or fewer colors. (A GIF *does* have a definite number of colors in its\npalette, and the format doesn't allow more than 256 palette entries.)\nFor purposes of Usenet picture distribution, GIF has the advantage that the\nsender precomputes the color quantization, so recipients don't have to.\nThis is also the *disadvantage* of GIF: you're stuck with the sender's\nquantization. If the sender quantized to a different number of colors than\nwhat you can display, you have to re-quantize, resulting in much poorer\nimage quality than if you had quantized once from a full-color image.\nFurthermore, if the sender didn't use a high-quality color quantization\nalgorithm, you're out of luck.\n\nFor this reason, JPEG offers the promise of significantly better image quality\nfor all users whose machines don't match the sender's display hardware.\nJPEG's full color image can be quantized to precisely match the user's display\nhardware. Furthermore, you will be able to take advantage of future\nimprovements in quantization algorithms (there is a lot of active research in\nthis area), or purchase better display hardware, to get a better view of JPEG\nimages you already have. With a GIF, you're stuck forevermore with what was\nsent.\n\nIt's also worth mentioning that many GIF-viewing programs include rather\nshoddy quantization routines. If you view a 256-color GIF on a 16-color EGA\ndisplay, for example, you are probably getting a much worse image than you\nneed to. This is partly an inevitable consequence of doing two color\nquantizations (one to create the GIF, one to display it), but often it's\nalso due to sloppiness. JPEG conversion programs will be forced to use\nhigh quality quantizers in order to get acceptable results at all, and in\nnormal use they will quantize directly to the number of colors to be\ndisplayed. Thus, JPEG is likely to provide better results than the average\nGIF program for low-color-resolution displays as well as high-resolution ones!\n\nFinally, an ever-growing number of people have better-than-8-bit display\nhardware already: 15-bit \"hi-color\" PC displays, true 24-bit displays on\nworkstations and Macintoshes, etc. For these people, GIF is already\nobsolete, as it cannot represent an image to the full capabilities of their\ndisplay. JPEG images can drive these displays much more effectively.\nThus, JPEG is an all-around better choice than GIF for representing images\nin a machine-independent fashion.\n\n\n[8] How does JPEG work?\n\nThe buzz-words to know are chrominance subsampling, discrete cosine\ntransforms, coefficient quantization, and Huffman or arithmetic entropy\ncoding. This article's long enough already, so I'm not going to say more\nthan that here. For technical information, see the comp.compression FAQ.\nThis is available from the news.answers archive at rtfm.mit.edu, in files\n/pub/usenet/news.answers/compression-faq/part[1-3]. If you need help in\nusing the news.answers archive, see the top of this article.\n\n\n[9] What about lossless JPEG?\n\nThere's a great deal of confusion on this subject. The JPEG committee did\ndefine a truly lossless compression algorithm, i.e., one that guarantees the\nfinal output is bit-for-bit identical to the original input. However, this\nlossless mode has almost nothing in common with the regular, lossy JPEG\nalgorithm, and it offers much less compression. At present, very few\nimplementations of lossless JPEG exist, and all of them are commercial.\n\nSaying \"-Q 100\" to the free JPEG software DOES NOT get you a lossless image.\nWhat it does get rid of is deliberate information loss in the coefficient\nquantization step. There is still a good deal of information loss in the\ncolor subsampling step. (With the V4 free JPEG code, you can also say\n\"-sample 1x1\" to turn off subsampling. Keep in mind that many commercial\nJPEG implementations cannot cope with the resulting file.)\n\nEven with both quantization and subsampling turned off, the regular JPEG\nalgorithm is not lossless, because it is subject to roundoff errors in\nvarious calculations. The maximum error is a few counts in any one pixel\nvalue; it's highly unlikely that this could be perceived by the human eye,\nbut it might be a concern if you are doing machine processing of an image.\n\nAt this minimum-loss setting, regular JPEG produces files that are perhaps\nhalf the size of an uncompressed 24-bit-per-pixel image. True lossless JPEG\nprovides roughly the same amount of compression, but it guarantees\nbit-for-bit accuracy.\n\nIf you have an application requiring lossless storage of images with less\nthan 6 bits per pixel (per color component), you may want to look into the\nJBIG bilevel image compression standard. This performs better than JPEG\nlossless on such images. JPEG lossless is superior to JBIG on images with\n6 or more bits per pixel; furthermore, JPEG is public domain (at least with a\nHuffman back end), while the JBIG techniques are heavily covered by patents.\n\n\n[10] Why all the argument about file formats?\n\nStrictly speaking, JPEG refers only to a family of compression algorithms;\nit does *not* refer to a specific image file format. The JPEG committee was\nprevented from defining a file format by turf wars within the international\nstandards organizations.\n\nSince we can't actually exchange images with anyone else unless we agree on\na common file format, this leaves us with a problem. In the absence of\nofficial standards, a number of JPEG program writers have just gone off to\n\"do their own thing\", and as a result their programs aren't compatible with\nanybody else's.\n\nThe closest thing we have to a de-facto standard JPEG format is some work\nthat's been coordinated by people at C-Cube Microsystems. They have defined\ntwo JPEG-based file formats:\n * JFIF (JPEG File Interchange Format), a \"low-end\" format that transports\n pixels and not much else.\n * TIFF/JPEG, aka TIFF 6.0, an extension of the Aldus TIFF format. TIFF is\n a \"high-end\" format that will let you record just about everything you\n ever wanted to know about an image, and a lot more besides :-). TIFF is\n a lot more complex than JFIF, and may well prove less transportable,\n because different vendors have historically implemented slightly different\n and incompatible subsets of TIFF. It's not likely that adding JPEG to the\n mix will do anything to improve this situation.\nBoth of these formats were developed with input from all the major vendors\nof JPEG-related products; it's reasonably likely that future commercial\nproducts will adhere to one or both standards.\n\nI believe that Usenet should adopt JFIF as the replacement for GIF in\npicture postings. JFIF is simpler than TIFF and is available now; the\nTIFF 6.0 spec has only recently been officially adopted, and it is still\nunusably vague on some crucial details. Even when TIFF/JPEG is well\ndefined, the JFIF format is likely to be a widely supported \"lowest common\ndenominator\"; TIFF/JPEG files may never be as transportable.\n\nA particular case that people may be interested in is Apple's QuickTime\nsoftware for the Macintosh. QuickTime uses a JFIF-compatible format wrapped\ninside the Mac-specific PICT structure. Conversion between JFIF and\nQuickTime JPEG is pretty straightforward, and several Mac programs are\navailable to do it (see Mac portion of section 6A). If you have an editor\nthat handles binary files, you can strip a QuickTime JPEG PICT down to JFIF\nby hand; see section 11 for details.\n\nAnother particular case is Handmade Software's programs (GIF2JPG/JPG2GIF and\nImage Alchemy). These programs are capable of reading and writing JFIF\nformat. By default, though, they write a proprietary format developed by\nHSI. This format is NOT readable by any non-HSI programs and should not be\nused for Usenet postings. Use the -j switch to get JFIF output. (This\napplies to old versions of these programs; the current releases emit JFIF\nformat by default. You still should be careful not to post HSI-format\nfiles, unless you want to get flamed by people on non-PC platforms.)\n\n\n[11] How do I recognize which file format I have, and what do I do about it?\n\nIf you have an alleged JPEG file that your software won't read, it's likely\nto be HSI format or some other proprietary JPEG-based format. You can tell\nwhat you have by inspecting the first few bytes of the file:\n\n1. A JFIF-standard file will start with the characters (hex) FF D8 FF E0,\n followed by two variable bytes (often hex 00 10), followed by 'JFIF'.\n\n2. If you see FF D8 at the start, but not the rest of it, you may have a\n \"raw JPEG\" file. This is probably decodable as-is by JFIF software ---\n it's worth a try, anyway.\n\n3. HSI files start with 'hsi1'. You're out of luck unless you have HSI\n software. Portions of the file may look like plain JPEG data, but they\n won't decompress properly with non-HSI programs.\n\n4. A Macintosh PICT file, if JPEG-compressed, will have a couple hundred\n bytes of header followed by a JFIF header (scan for 'JFIF'). Strip off\n everything before the FF D8 and you should be able to read it.\n\n5. Anything else: it's a proprietary format, or not JPEG at all. If you are\n lucky, the file may consist of a header and a raw JPEG data stream.\n If you can identify the start of the JPEG data stream (look for FF D8),\n try stripping off everything before that.\n\nIn uuencoded Usenet postings, the characteristic JFIF pattern is\n\n\t\"begin\" line\n\tM_]C_X ...\n\nwhereas uuencoded HSI files will start with\n\n\t\"begin\" line\n\tM:'-I ...\n\nIf you learn to check for the former, you can save yourself the trouble of\ndownloading non-JFIF files.\n\n\n[12] What about arithmetic coding?\n\nThe JPEG spec defines two different \"back end\" modules for the final output\nof compressed data: either Huffman coding or arithmetic coding is allowed.\nThe choice has no impact on image quality, but arithmetic coding usually\nproduces a smaller compressed file. On typical images, arithmetic coding\nproduces a file 5 or 10 percent smaller than Huffman coding. (All the\nfile-size numbers previously cited are for Huffman coding.)\n\nUnfortunately, the particular variant of arithmetic coding specified by the\nJPEG standard is subject to patents owned by IBM, AT&T, and Mitsubishi.\nThus *you cannot legally use arithmetic coding* unless you obtain licenses\nfrom these companies. (The \"fair use\" doctrine allows people to implement\nand test the algorithm, but actually storing any images with it is dubious\nat best.)\n\nAt least in the short run, I recommend that people not worry about\narithmetic coding; the space savings isn't great enough to justify the\npotential legal hassles. In particular, arithmetic coding *should not*\nbe used for any images to be exchanged on Usenet.\n\nThere is some small chance that the legal situation may change in the\nfuture. Stay tuned for further details.\n\n\n[13] Does loss accumulate with repeated compression/decompression?\n\nIt would be nice if, having compressed an image with JPEG, you could\ndecompress it, manipulate it (crop off a border, say), and recompress it\nwithout any further image degradation beyond what you lost initially.\nUnfortunately THIS IS NOT THE CASE. In general, recompressing an altered\nimage loses more information, though usually not as much as was lost the\nfirst time around.\n\nThe next best thing would be that if you decompress an image and recompress\nit *without changing it* then there is no further loss, i.e., you get an\nidentical JPEG file. Even this is not true; at least, not with the current\nfree JPEG software. It's essentially a problem of accumulation of roundoff\nerror. If you repeatedly compress and decompress, the image will eventually\ndegrade to where you can see visible changes from the first-generation\noutput. (It usually takes many such cycles to get visible change.)\nOne of the things on our to-do list is to see if accumulation of error can\nbe avoided or limited, but I am not optimistic about it.\n\nIn any case, the most that could possibly be guaranteed would be that\ncompressing the unmodified full-color output of djpeg, at the original\nquality setting, would introduce no further loss. Even such simple changes\nas cropping off a border could cause further roundoff-error degradation.\n(If you're wondering why, it's because the pixel-block boundaries move.\nIf you cropped off only multiples of 16 pixels, you might be safe, but\nthat's a mighty limited capability!)\n\nThe bottom line is that JPEG is a useful format for archival storage and\ntransmission of images, but you don't want to use it as an intermediate\nformat for sequences of image manipulation steps. Use a lossless format\n(PPM, RLE, TIFF, etc) while working on the image, then JPEG it when you are\nready to file it away. Aside from avoiding degradation, you will save a lot\nof compression/decompression time this way :-).\n\n\n[14] What are some rules of thumb for converting GIF images to JPEG?\n\nAs stated earlier, you *will* lose some amount of image information if you\nconvert an existing GIF image to JPEG. If you can obtain the original\nfull-color data the GIF was made from, it's far better to make a JPEG from\nthat. But if you need to save space and have only the GIF to work from,\nhere are some suggestions for getting maximum space savings with minimum\nloss of quality.\n\nThe first rule when converting a GIF library is to look at each JPEG, to\nmake sure you are happy with it, before throwing away the corresponding GIF;\nthat will give you a chance to re-do the conversion with a higher quality\nsetting if necessary. Some GIFs may be better left as GIFs, as explained in\nsection 3; in particular, cartoon-type GIFs with sixteen or fewer colors\ndon't convert well. You may find that a JPEG file of reasonable quality\nwill be *larger* than the GIF. (So check the sizes too.)\n\nExperience to date suggests that large, high-visual-quality GIFs are the best\ncandidates for conversion to JPEG. They chew up the most storage so offer\nthe most potential savings, and they convert to JPEG with least degradation.\nDon't waste your time converting any GIF much under 100 Kbytes. Also, don't\nexpect JPEG files converted from GIFs to be as small as those created\ndirectly from full-color originals. To maintain image quality you may have\nto let the converted files be as much as twice as big as straight-through\nJPEG files would be (i.e., shoot for 1/2 or 1/3rd the size of the GIF file,\nnot 1/4th as suggested in earlier comparisons).\n\nMany people have developed an odd habit of putting a large constant-color\nborder around a GIF image. While useless, this was nearly free in terms of\nstorage cost in GIF files. It is NOT free in JPEG files, and the sharp\nborder boundary can create visible artifacts (\"ghost\" edges). Do yourself\na favor and crop off any border before JPEGing. (If you are on an X Windows\nsystem, XV's manual and automatic cropping functions are a very painless\nway to do this.)\n\ncjpeg's default Q setting of 75 is appropriate for full-color input, but\nfor GIF inputs, Q settings of 85 to 95 often seem to be necessary to avoid\nimage degradation. (If you apply smoothing as suggested below, the higher\nQ setting may not be necessary.)\n\nColor GIFs of photographs or complex artwork are usually \"dithered\" to fool\nyour eye into seeing more than the 256 colors that GIF can actually store.\nIf you enlarge the image, you will see that adjacent pixels are often of\nsignificantly different colors; at normal size the eye averages these pixels\ntogether to produce the illusion of an intermediate color value. The\ntrouble with dithering is that, to JPEG, it looks like high-spatial-frequency\ncolor noise; and JPEG can't compress noise very well. The resulting JPEG\nfile is both larger and of lower image quality than what you would have\ngotten from JPEGing the original full color image (if you had it).\nTo get around this, you want to \"smooth\" the GIF image before compression.\nSmoothing averages together nearby pixels, thus approximating the color that\nyou thought you saw anyway, and in the process getting rid of the rapid\ncolor changes that give JPEG trouble. Appropriate use of smoothing will\noften let you avoid using a high Q factor, thus further reducing the size of\nthe compressed file, while still obtaining a better-looking output image\nthan you'd get without smoothing.\n\nWith the V4 free JPEG software (or products based on it), a simple smoothing\ncapability is built in. Try \"-smooth 10\" or so when converting GIFs.\nValues of 10 to 25 seem to work well for high-quality GIFs. Heavy-handed\ndithering may require larger smoothing factors. (If you can see regular\nfine-scale patterns on the GIF image even without enlargement, then strong\nsmoothing is definitely called for.) Too large a smoothing factor will blur\nthe output image, which you don't want. If you are an image processing\nwizard, you can also do smoothing with a separate filtering program, such as\npnmconvol from the PBMPLUS package. However, cjpeg's built-in smoother is\na LOT faster than pnmconvol...\n\nThe upshot of all this is that \"cjpeg -quality 85 -smooth 10\" is probably a\ngood starting point for converting GIFs. But if you really care about the\nimage, you'll want to check the results and maybe try a few other settings.\n\n\n---------------------\n\nFor more information about JPEG in general or the free JPEG software in\nparticular, contact the Independent JPEG Group at jpeg-info@uunet.uu.net.\n", "I am looking for EISA or VESA local bus graphic cards that support at least \n1024x786x24 resolution. I know Matrox has one, but it is very expensive. All the\nother cards I know of, that support that resoultion, are striaght ISA. \n\nAlso are there any X servers for a unix PC that support 24 bits?", "Sorry about confusing subject/summary/keywords!!!\n\nI am a postgrad researcher in ESL/applied linguistics at Edith Cowan\nUniversity in Perth Western Australia...\n\nI DESPERATELY need help!!! I need to record the results of word\nprocessing sessions in windows - so that I can sit down and replay the\nresults of my research subjects' wordprocessing behaviours -\nnaturally, I can do this with the Windows macrorecorder - and 2 or 3\nother apps in windows - BUT I CANNOT PAUSE/RESUME!!!! - i.e. all I can\ndo is to ctrl/break to get out - this is useless for a researcher who\nneeds to be able to pause the wordprocessing session he is replaying\nto make notes/annotations - and then RESUME from where he left off...\n\nI am just about to commence my research for my Masters thesis and\nwould be EXTREMELY grateful for any assistance - if anyone can help\ncould they mail me at:\n\njohnoliver@odin.DIALix.oz.au\n\nMany thanks in advance...", "Dear Netters\nI want to send EMG-signals from a running person to a computer. \nEach signal is 4KHz wide and there is up to 30 of them on each\nrunning person. The signal is only to be sent over a few hundred \nmeters. It seems to me that the frequency intended for this use is\nabout 150MHz and about 440MHz.\nTo make the transmitters as light as possible I suppose it will be best \nthe to send the signals in an analog form. As this application is rather \nspecialized I do not expect to be able to buy the exact transmitter-\nunits i need.\nOn the other hand I imagine that I can buy the receiver somewhere. I \nneed a multichannel (up to 30 channels) receiver or 30 complete \nreceivers in some rack system where one can add as many receivers \nas needed in the particular case.\nDO ANYBODY KNOW IF THERE IS EXISTING SUCH RECEIVER \nSYSTEM ON THE MARKET?", "Hi ! I am trying to develop a utility to view WORD for window file. But to do that I need to know the format of the DOC ( word for window file format ) files.Can anybody tell me what is the format of DOC file or direct me where can I get it. Or is it proprietory format ?\nYour help is greatly appriciated.", "Hi netlanders,\n\nDoes anybody know if there is something like Macintosh Hypercard for any UNIX \nplatform?\n\n\nThanks in advance\n", "Hi all, \n \n \n Could anybody please tell me where I might be able to find device drivers \nfor a couple of older Gateway ethernet cards? I don't have the model number\noff hand, but they have only a BNC connector, and a header connector for \na Novell keycard (one has one installed).\n \n I'm looking at using these with a 2 node copy of 10-net that I picked up\nat a swap meet. (I'd love to do Lantastic or Netware lite, but I'm a poor\ncollege student and the price was right.)\n\n Please reply via email, as I haven't had a lot of time for news because\nof exams and such. ", "I am a Mac-user when it comes to graphics (that's what I own software and hardware for) and\nI've recently come across a large number of TTTDDD format modeling databases. Is there any\nsoftware, mac or unix, for translating those to something I could use, like DXF? Please\nreply via email.", "\n\n\n\n\nSounds like a memory conflict problem, which can cause truly weird symptoms \nlike these. Call Dell tech support (or better, post to them on CSERVE if you\nhave an account) and get the memory range(s) used by video RAM on your\nmachine. The block windows from using those ranges with an\nEMMEXCLUDE= statement in the 386Enh section of SYSTEM.INI. You probably\nshould include a statement excluding the same range from EMM386 or whatever\nmemory manager you use in CONFIG.SYS.", "I am looking to sell my ICOM IC-02AT and extras. I have the \nfollowing:\nCM-12 Battery\nHS-10 Headset\nHS-10SA VOX unit\nCigarette Adapter\nLeather Case\nBC-25V Wall Charger\nIC-BP3 Battery\t\tAlso have one that needs a new cell (i think, \nits been a while)\n\nIt is in good condition, has a scratch on the front that is not \nvisible when in the leather case.\n\nIf you are interested, make me an offer.\n\n--rich\n", "\n\nThus, a deciBell (deci-, l., tenth of + Bell) is a fractional part of the \noriginal Bell. For example, SouthWestern Bell is a deciBell.\n\nAnd the measure of current, Amp, is actually named after both the AMP company\nand the Amphenol company. Both companies revolutionized electronics by\nsimulatenously realizing that the performance of connectors and sockets \nwere affected by the amount of current running through the wires.\n\nThe Ohmite company was the first to characterize resistances by numbers, thus\nour use of the Ohms...\n\n\nAlexander Graham Bell, actually, is where Bell came from... \n\n\n\nActually, Bel refers\n\n", "\nDo you have Weitek's address/phone number? I'd like to get some information\nabout this chip.\n", "The Logitech ScanMan 32 is a nice unit, compact and effective it will\nbring in graphics with surprisingly good quality. Note that its effective\nresolution in grey scale mode is only about 72 dpi. If you don't intend\nto magnify a graphic, it works fine. A true 256 level gray scanner would\nwork better for images.", "wanted: apple adb mouse and keyboard\ncontact Paul Gribble at above email address asap. Paul G.\n", "Subject says it all...\nAnyone know where I can find one. Binaries are nice, but source would\ndo to. \n\nThanks in advance,\n\n\n", "Hi there,\n I'm using POv-Ray on my IBM compatible at home, but I would like to \nrun some things at work on our VAX computer. I believe there is a version \nof the source code for POV-ray that is VAX specific, but I'm not sure where \nto find it (I've looked at the several sites where the IBMPC version of it \ncan be found). Can anyone help me?\n\nThanks in advance,", "\n\nLow oil pressure, usually. Could be your oil pump, or...\nchecked your oil lately???\n\nMC", "\nWrong, it has a 6507.\n\n\nIt had one custome chip (not an ASIC in the sense that word is now understood):\nthe TIA (sometimes known as the 6526, although most other manufacturers list\nthat as the CIA complex interface adapter.) TIA stands for Television\nInterface Adapter, and it handles sound, paddles and the minimal video hardware\nthe 2600 possessed.\n\nThere was also a standard 6532 RAM, I/O, Timer (RIOT), plus a voltage\nregulator and (if memory serves) a 555 timer. That's all.\n\n\nNot according to the servicing documentation I have here. The 2600 did not\nchange intenally very much at all.\n\n\nROMS were mapped into the upper 4K of the 6507's address space. 2K and 4K\ngames were fine, but later 8K and 16K games needed bank switching. Atari\n(and others) made much of these \"huge\" cartridges.\n\n\nWrong, it had 128 bytes of RAM from the RIOT. This was multiply mapped into\nboth page 0 (pseudo-registers) and page 1 (stack), and also throughout the\nbottom 4K of memory. TIA registers also sat in this address space.\n\nAs 128 bytes of RAM was somewhat limiting, some later cartridges also carried\nRAM themselves, which was interesting as Atari had provided no write line\nto the cart. This was managed by mapping the reads from RAM into one address\nthe *very* scarce ROM address space.", "Anybody know where I can get Graphics Work Shop?", "Hi-\nDoes anyone out there know how I would get started on writing a\ndevice driver for the Apple CD300 CD-ROM drive, which *can*\nread audio CD formats out through the SCSI bus? ", "If this question is covered elsewhere, I apologize, but I need information\nfast.\n\nMy department has been given a large sum of money to install a video system\non our network of IBM RS6000 workstations. This is not an area in which I\nhave any expertise, so I wonder if anyone out there can offer advice. We\nwould like a system, based either on VHS or 8mm video which will allow one \nwrite video, frame by frame on tape for play-back in real time. It's for\nvisualization of physics problems. Can anyone tell me what hardware is\navailable which would work for our system? Some support software is\nobviously needed too, but nothing particularly sophisticated, since the\nsoftware we actually use for the visualization is all already written.\n\nPlease email with replies, as I don't read this group. Many thanks for your\nhelp.", "\nJudging from the responses so far, I have not made clear enough in my\narticle quoted above that Imake-TeX is not for installing TeX, but for\n*using* it. With Imake-TeX, you will never again have to fiddle around with\ncalling latex and its various utility programs (makeindex, bibtex). Simply\ntype \"make\" and your document's DVI file will be up-to-date. All you have\nto do is to write a simple Imakefile and let Imake generate a suitable\nMakefile for you. Here is such an Imakefile:\n\n\t#include \"TeX.tmpl\"\n\tPaperFormatA4()\n\tSimpleLatexTarget(document)\n\nThe generated Makefile provides the following commands:\n\n make depend: Searching the TeX source files for dependencies like\n \\input{somefile}\n\n make dvi: Generate an up-to-date DVI file\n\n make viewdvi: Display it on your screen\n\n make ps: Generate a PostScript version of your document\n\n make viewps: Display it\n\n make clean: Remove unnecessary things\n\n make veryclean: Remove even the DVI file\n\n make Makefiles: Generate Makefiles in subdirectories\n\n\nIf ...\n\na) ...this seems attractive to you,\nb) ...you are willing to test Imake-TeX and send me a short test report,\nc) ...you are willing to cope with a rudimentary English documentation\n (however, the German version is completed and included),\n\nthen you are invited as a beta tester. I am looking forward to your e-mail.\n\n-- \n Dipl.-Inform. Rainer Klute I R B : immer richtig beraten\n Univ. Dortmund, IRB\n Postfach 500500 |)|/ Tel.: +49 231 755-4663\nD-W4600 Dortmund 50 |\\|\\ Fax : +49 231 755-2386", "I'm buying a new system this week to replace my brain dead 286, and\ncould use some feedback on a couple systems I'm looking at if anyone is\nfamiliar with them.\n \n The system that looks the most interesting is the Budget 486/66 VLB\ntower. For about $2343 (delivered) it offers VLB, 8MB, 200MB IDE, a Mitsumi\nCD-ROM (with software bundle), Media Vision Sound board, 14\" CTX 1468NI,\n128K Cache, and the usual drives, ports, & OS software. Since my budget is\n$2350 for a system, it seems almost too good to be true (which may mean it\nIS too good to be true, of course). Among other things, I've never seen a\nreview of the Budget systems (or their parent company, Micro Smart), or of\nthe motherboard they are using (the Aetana). Any feedback would be\nappreciated.\n \n In a similar vein, the second system I'm considering Midwest Micro's\nElite VESA 486/66 tower with a Diamond Viper (2MB) & Midwest Micro 14\" MI\nmonitor is one I've never seen reviewed anywhere. I'm familiar with the\nfirm but not the product line - and some idea of their quality would be abig\nbenefit here as well.\n \n Any other suggestions in the price range would be appreciated - my\ngreatest needs are speed and graphics capabilities.\n \n\tEmail response would be greatly appreciated.\n\n\tThanks,\n\n-- ", " |> >\n |> >>To sum up, when an accelerated board with 4MB VRAM (True Colour 1280x1024)\n |> >>AND A FAST VGA SIDE is available under $500, I will buy one.\n \n SuperMac just announced a new line of PC accelerated cards that do 1024x768 in\n24bit color. They start at $999 retail. I don't think your wait will be very long.", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\nInfoWorld (April 26, 1993 issue) has two articles about problems with DOS\n6. A 'Second Look' article calls it a 'loaded gun' and that people\nshould exercise extreme caution if they decide to use it. The point out\nthat DoubleSpace and MemMaker are both problem areas that will cause a\nnumber of folks problems.\n\nMS's response was to the effect that there had been no problems reported\nthat they could duplicate (probably are not trying too hard).", "I am looking for info on products that can take\nWindows source on a Unix box (such as Sparc), and produce a\nMotif executable. Another requirement is that MFC 2.0 should\nbe supported. I already know of:\n\n Wind/U by Bristol Technologies\n Hunter SDK\n MainWin by MainSoft\n\n Are there any others?\n\n\tI will post a summary if it's wanted.\n\n\t\t\t\tDaniel", "As the subject says - Can I use a 4052 for digital signals? I don't see\nwhy it couldn't handle digital signals, but I could be wrong. Anyone have\nany advice? Thanks.\n", "Just taken delivery of a 66MHz 486 DX2 machine, and very nice it is too.\nOne query - the landmark speed when turbo is on is 230 or something MHz\n- thats not the problem. The problem is the speed when turbo is off. Its\n7 MHz. The equivalent in car terms is having a nice Porsche with a button\nthat turns it into a skateboard.\n\nDoes anyone have a clue as to what determines the relative performance of\nturbo vs non-turbo?? I would like to set it to give a landmark speed of\nabout 30 or 40 MHz with turbo off.\n\nCheers,\n", "\nApparently not. Many people complain about the confusion that\nresults from the filemanager/progman split. It's just a basic\nflaw.", "T H E G R A P H I C S B B S\n\n # #\n #\n ### # ### ### #### #### ## #### ####\n # # ## # # # # # # # #\n # # # #### # # # # # # ###\n #### # # # #### # # # # #\n # # #### # # # ### #### ####\n ### #\n .rent.com\n\n \"It's better than a sharp stick in the eye!\" - Andy Meyer\n\n\n We are pleased to announce that we have just upgraded our system to a\n new Hayes Ultra 144 V.32bis/V.42bis modem that will allow connections\n from 300bps up to 38,400bps!\n\n\nFeaturing:\n\n o A graphics specific system for those of you interested in\n such things as 3D graphics, image processing, animation,\n clip-art and the latest in public domain graphics programs!\n\n o Graphics specific mailing lists such as Imagine 3D, DCTV\n and Lightwave 3D mailing lists aliased to easy to read\n forums which you can join and read. Many more to come!\n\n o FREE UseNet access and free netmail to sites all over the\n world! The ability to contact software/hardware developers\n right at their mainframes just by sending them netmail from\n The Graphics BBS! Not to mention your kids at college or your\n parents FROM college.\n\n With our quick connections and reliable links, you can have\n your mail sent around the world in a matter of minutes!\n\n o A unique conference (Bulletin) section. The abilty to join\n and keep track of only the conferences that you enjoy.\n\n The ability to read in files from your own personal file area\n for use in messages. Also, with proper access, you can create\n your own conference and moderate it.\n\n o Newsfeeds from USENET that include topics such as graphics,\n Mac, Amiga, IBM, science, erotica, ham radio, Star Trek,\n scuba diving, programmers forums, game designers forums, and\n cyberspace forums.\n\n o The most sophisticated, but easy to learn and use mail system\n ever created for a PC! You can easily read your mail, delete\n it or move it to your personal directory for storage and reply\n to it. You can attach files to your mail and send it to\n another member. A smart sendmail feature ensures accurate\n addressing of netmail.\n\n o Ability to send mail and messages to ArpaNet, USENET, Internet,\n BITNET and any of the networks that interface with them around the \n world such as Fidonet, PeopleNet and the UUCP network of university\n and research facility systems.\n\n o A file library containing downloads for most popular computers\n featuring an easy to learn and use system. The library features\n master directory listing, newscan and search capabilities as\n well as complete Archived file listings.\n\n The file library supports most popular transfer protocols\n such as X,Y,Z modem as well as advance protocols such as\n HS-Link and Bi-Modem.\n\n The file library also doubles as a file-server for users from\n other sites all around the world!\n\n o Complete control over your environment. You select whether\n you want hot-key control, menus, -more- prompting etc. You\n can define your cancel key and choose your terminal emulation.\n\n You can also edit your personal login script to do what you\n want it to do.\n\n o Online Games (Global War, Jet Combat Simulator, etc.). New\n games to be added.\n\n o Online manual and extensive help facilities. Complete tracking\n of online usage time.\n\n o 170 megabytes of storage.\n\n\n The Graphics BBS currently runs on an IBM AT at 8mHz with 4 meg of\n RAM,\n meg IDE\n drive.\n\n Call The Graphics BBS at 908/469-0049\n 300 - 38400 Baud, 24 hours a day, everyday!", "HELP! I am trying to view .JPG files with my 386SX, 20MHz machine\n. I have a STB-POWERGRAPH graphics card with 1024 X 768 by 256 colors,\nwith 1Meg RAM on it.\n\nI have tried CVIEW097 (with windows-- EXTREMELY SLOW), and DVPEG24.\nDVPEG24 doesn't work! Even if I pick a lot of the \"modes\" that are\nsupported by POWERGRAPH (so it says in the manual), it doesn't work\nwhen I try to view a picture... it only buzzes.\n\nAnyone out there that can help me; give me suggestions?\n\nI would really appreciate it!", "\n\nUse a GC with the subwindow_mode attribute set to IncludeInferiors. The\ndefault is ClipByChildren. However, beware if any of the children are of\na different depth to the parent; the semantics of this are undefined by the\nprotocol.", "Smith Corona Typewriter for sale,\n\n Model SCM 70 electric.\n\nGreat for forms, envelopes, labels, small things, etc. that you just\ncan't do with your microcomputer.\n\nBuilt like a tank, but not big nor that heavy. A classic compact\nelectric, with padded storage bag. No scratches, enamel paint chips\nor dents. Cloth ribbon, 2 colours. Will accept best offer near $70.\n\n(Selling for a friend, so these are her instructions not mine.\nRSVP to this account, though. Make any other offers anyways,\nI'll pass them along. A single sheet-feeder for the Macintosh\nImagewriter II would be acceptable in trade, for example.)\n\ngld", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nGood I had a bad feeling about this problem because of a special case\nwith no solution that worried me.\n\nFour coplanar points in the shape of a square have no unique sphere \nthat they are on the surface of.\nSimilarly 4 colinear point have no finite sized sphere that they are on the\nsurface of.\n\nThese algorithms being geometrical designed rather than algebraically design\nmeet these problems neatly.\n\nWhen determining which plane the 3 points are on if they are colinear\nthe algorithm should afil or return infinite R.\nWhen intersecting the two lines there are 2 possibilities\nthey are the same line (the 4 points were on a planar circle)\nthey are different lines but parallel. There is a sphere of in radius.\n\nThis last case can be achieved with 3 colinier points and any 4th point\nby taking the 4th point and pairs of the first 3 parallel lines will be produced\n\nit can also be achieved by\n\nIf all 4 points are coplanar but are not on one circle. \n\nIt seems to me that the algorithm only fails when the 4 points are coplanar.\nThe algorithm always fails when the points are coplanar.\n(4 points being colinear => coplanar)\n\nTesting if the 4th point is coplanar when the plane of the first 3 points\nhas been found is trivial.\n\n", "\n\tWhere did you get this driver. Please, please, please !!!!\n\tI've been waiting months for this.\n\n\n", "Hello Net.People,\n\nWe have a LaserWriter Select 310 (standard 1.5Mb RAM) connected to an LC\nIII (4/80).\n\nThe print driver cannot find any Adobe Type 1 fonts or any TrueType fonts\nin the System.\n\nThe connections to the printer and the Driver installation are correct\nbut this 310 printer still refuses to find fonts and work correctly out\nof the box.\n\nIMHO, an Apple product not working out of the box is a shameful event.\n\nThe installer disks for the printer install: LW Select 310 driver v 1.0,\nPrintMonitor v 7.1 and backgrounder v 3.1 (!) on a System 7.1 LC III.\n\nHas anyone else had similar experiences with this printer/configuration,\nbecause we really need some help on this one.", "\nA book that I can somewhat recommend is :\n \n Pratical Image Processing in C\n by Craig A. Lindley\n published by Wiley", "Answers please by e-mail, since not all groups in the header are carried here.\n\nHi!\n\nPersonally, I like NeXTSTEP very much. Even more when I realise how much a \nburden ordinary X or Windows programming is. I also like Objective-C better \nthan I like C++.\n\nBut, sometimes the restrictions are there. For instance it sometimes has to be \nMS-Windows or X. Now I'm looking for pointers to tools on those environments \nthat come close to NeXTSTEP, the appkit etc. Also, environs that support rapid \nprototyping (like with IB) without producing spaghetti-code as soon as you want \nto do real work.\n\nMaybe STEPSTONE with some Windows version of a kit of UI objects? Interviews \n(what it is exactly, I don't know. I kind of lost touch with that world when I \nstarted with NeXTSTEP.)\n\nThanks,\n", "Try this:\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n#include \n#include \n#include \n\nDisplay *dpy;\nint\tscreen;\nXColor\t*xclrs,*xclrp;\nXID\tcmap;\nint\tcells,i,j,red,green,blue,got;\n\n\n\nmain()\n{\n dpy = XOpenDisplay(NULL);\n screen = DefaultScreen(dpy);\n cells = DisplayCells(dpy,screen);\n\n cmap = XCreateColormap(dpy,RootWindow(dpy,screen),DefaultVisual(dpy,screen),1);\n\n xclrs = (XColor *)malloc(cells * sizeof(*xclrs));\n\n\n xclrp = xclrs; \n for (i=0; ipixel = i; xclrp->flags = 7; xclrp++; };\n\n XQueryColors(dpy,DefaultColormap(dpy,screen),xclrs,cells);\n XStoreColors(dpy,cmap,xclrs,cells);\n XInstallColormap(dpy,cmap);\n got = 1;\n\n while(got) {\n xclrp = xclrs;\n got = 0;\n for(i=0; ired < 65000) {xclrp->red += 256; got = 1;};\n if(xclrp->green < 65000) {xclrp->green +=256; got=1;};\n if(xclrp->blue < 65000) {xclrp->blue +=256; got=1;};\n xclrp ++;\n }\n XStoreColors(dpy,cmap,xclrs,cells);\n/* XInstallColormap(dpy,cmap); */\n }\n got = 1;\n while(got) {\n xclrp = xclrs;\n got = 0;\n for(i=0; ired > 256) {xclrp->red -= 256; got = 1;};\n if(xclrp->green > 256) {xclrp->green -=256; got=1;};\n if(xclrp->blue > 256) {xclrp->blue -=256; got=1;};\n xclrp ++;\n }\n XStoreColors(dpy,cmap,xclrs,cells);\n/* XInstallColormap(dpy,cmap); */\n }\n}\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\nIt will work on any PseudoColor XServer. (hopefully :)\n", "\n\ncsrc.ncsl.nist.gov (129.6.54.11) is ftp-able from here...\n", "Except from clock frequency, what are the differences between the\nvarious types of 386 and 486 processors?\nThe following is a list with what I know (or perhaps only what I\nthink I know!). Can anybody extend & correct?\n\n\n80386: True 32 bit processor.\n (cache?)\n\n80386SX: Emulates 80386 with a 16 bit bus.\n\n80486: True 32 bit processor.\n Internal mathematical coprocessor (Correct?)\n Internal cache (Correct? How big?)\n (extended instruction set in any way?)\n\n80486SX: Probably sorta like 80486...\n\n80486DX: Probably sorta like 80386...\n\n\nWell, it's not much, but I'm sure there is a lot of people out there\nwho can add a lot of information. Post or email as you prefer.", "==============================================================================\nCould someone please tell me the Best FTP'able viewer available for MSDOS\nI am running a 486 33mhz with SVGA monitor.\nI need to look at gifs mainly and it would be advantageous if it ran\nunder windows...........thanks\n", "It's one of those animals you dance with.\nBut seriously, I saw this video for sale brand new at Palmer Video\nfor $9 + tx. I guess if I could resell them for $12 I would dance\nlike a Wovie. \n\n", "\nJohn White from STAC Electronics can be reached at compuserv as 72370,1005.\nFor me 72370.1005@compuserve.com would as email address work from Internet.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ninternet: ffritze@hpwbe007.wad.hp.com\nphone: Germany 7243 602296\naddress: Fromut FRITZE, Waldbronn Analytic Division R&D,\n\t Hewlett Packard Str, D 7517 Waldbronn 2, Germany", "---\nI was wondering if someone could send me the pinouts to the Apple 13\" and\n14\" RGB monitors. Those parts of the docs seem to have been misplaced\naround here.\n\nThanks a _lot_ for your help.\n\nKevin\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nKevin O. Lepard\nInternet: lepard@mayo.edu", "\n\nI received my Graphite VL on Thursday, and I've had a little bit of \nexperience with it now. In general, it feels *FAST*, although this\nis the first VLB card that I have tried. Still, the results are \nimpressive.\n\nWith my 486DX2/66 w/16 MB, running at 1024x768/256, I've had the following\nWinTach 1.0 results:\n\n\nCard\t\t\t\tWP\tCAD\tSpread\tPaint\tOverall\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\nATI Graphics Ultra\t\t13.5\t14.5\t19.1\t25.0\t18.0\nATI Ultra+ (no aperture)\t11.2\t13.8\t10.7\t20.9\t14.1\nHercules Graphite VL\t\t16.1\t67.8\t41.4\t52.8\t44.5\n\nUnfortunately I don't have the numbers here, but the ATI Ultra Pro VLB\nhad an overall WinTach score of about 26. The Ultra Pro was nearly as\nfast in text handling, but was blown away in the CAD and Paint tests.\n\nAs an additional test, we hand-timed a complex CorelDraw! slide resize/-\nredraw times. There was no swapping, but I'd expect there is a fairly\nheavy load on the CPU. The Graphite redraw times averaged about 10.2\nseconds, with ATI Ultra Pro at 12.0. This jives with Steve Gibson's\ncontention that the ISA Graphite is faster than an ATI UP on his complex\nMicrografx Draw document.\n\nSo far, I'm *very* impressed. The drivers look solid, and the card flies.\nThe installation and utilities are different, but comparable to ATI's. And\nI didn't have to wait for Build 59 for some reliability... With Hercules'\nsoftware developer special, you can get an evaluation copy of the card for\njust $225 (or $200 for the ISA version). Call 800-532-0600 if you want to\ngive it a try -- I'm a happy customer now!\n", "\nImprecise. This description\n\n 1. ignores the role of the ballast,\n 2. misrepresents the heating effects in the starter.\n\nThe bimetalic strip cools down immediately after the contacts\nshort circuit, because the neon discharge stops, and much less\nheat is generated from the I^2R loss in the metal as compared to\nthe neon discharge.\n\nThe starter contacts open before the tube fires. Actually,\nthe tube fires as a result of the back-emf generated in the ballast\nbecause of this immediate opening of the starter's contacts.\n\nA capacitor is connected in parallel with the contacts to prevent\nexcessive arcing during the firing. The neon reionizes but does not draw\nsufficient current to prevent firing of the tube itself.", "There is a new product for the (IBM'ers) out there... it is called\nIMAGINE and it just started shipping yesterday... I can personally attest that it will blow the doors off of 3D-Studio. It is made by IMPUlSE, and is in its\n3rd version....(1st) for the IBM.... it can do morphing, your standard key-framming animation, it is a raytracer (reflections & shadows), and can do/apply special FX to objects... (like ripple, explode, bounce) things of that nature. Also it has algorithmic texture maps....and your standard brushmapping also...\n\nyou can have animated brushmaps...(ie. live video mapped on the objs)...\nalso animated backdrops (ie. live video backgrounds)\nalso animted reflections maps....\n\nyou get the idea.... it will run for about 500$ retail (I think)...\n\ndont let the low price fool you.... this product can do it all when it\ncomes to 3D-animation and Renderering...!\n\nalso....does anyone here know how to get in the Imagine mailing list??\nplease e-mail me if you do or post up here....\n\noh...the number for IMPULSE is --->1 800 328 0184", "-> I am looking for source-code for the radiosity-method.\n\n I don't know what kind of machine you want it for, but the program\nRadiance comes with 'C' source code - I don't have ftp access so I\ncouldn't tell you where to get it via that way.", "PhaNG, the Philadelphia Area NEXTSTEP User Group, will be holding a public \nsneak preview of NEXTSTEP for Intel Processors.\n\nWhere: David Rittenhouse Labs Room A1\n 33rd And Walnut, southeast corner, Philadelphia PA\nWhen: Wednesday, May 5th\n 7 pm to 9 pm\n\t\t\t \n\t\t\t \nNEXTSTEP is the 32 bit UNIX based operating environment which has, until now,\nonly been available on Motorola-based NeXT computers. In the May 11th issue\nof PC Magazine called NEXTSTEP a \"Hot Prospect\". Now, NeXT is nearing release\nof a version of NEXTSTEP which will run on 486-based PC's, yet is identical to\nthe 68040 version. In fact, NEXTSTEP 3.1 includes the ability to easily \ncompile a program into a single binary which will run on both Intel and\nMotorola hardware.\n\nNEXTSTEP 3.1 for Intel Processors will be demonstrated on an Epson Progression\n486 computer. NEXTSTEP is scheduled for release on May 25 at NeXTWorld Expo\nin San Francisco.\n\nThe demonstration will be open to the public. Come one come all! If you are \ninterested in seeing the most advanced PC operating system around, come on by!\n\nFor a brief summary of what NEXTSTEP offers, see the May 11th issue of \nPC Magazine, page 66.\n\nFor more information, contact me:\n\nJonathan Hendry\nPhaNG, the Philadelphia Area NEXTSTEP User Group\n215-653-0911\n\njon@afs.com\n\n\n--\nJonathan W. Hendry\nDrexel University College Of Info. Studies\ntjhendry@queen.mcs.drexel.edu\n\n\"The experience of programming Windows vs. the experience of \nprogramming NeXTStep is like going to the dentist and having a root canal \nwithout anaesthetic vs. going to the dentist and having your gums cleaned \nw/some nitrous-oxide thrown in for the entertainment side of things.\"\nbbum@stone.co\n\n--\nJonathan W. Hendry\nDrexel University College Of Info. Studies\ntjhendry@queen.mcs.drexel.edu", "Nikon FM-2n with 50 mm Nikkor and accessories for sale.I bought this camera in\nHong Kong two years ago and everything has been looked after very well. I'm now\nselling some more gear to finance my next big film project.", "They don't have a conflict because technically LPT1: does not use\nIRQ7!.\n The Parallel printer processor (the actual number escapes\nme) contains a printer control register which enables the chip\nto transmit an interrupt to the interrupt controller as IRQ7,\nthen onto the main processor as Int 0x0F. By default the parallel\nprinter processor does not enable it's interrupt line therefore\nno Int 0x0F's will be sourced from the printer controller chip,\nthus enabling other devices to use the actual IRQ7.\n\n Note, this applies to COM ports also which by default do not\nroute interrupts to the system bus, although COM's software\nusually enable this feature as it make monitoring COM port\nactivity easier than polling the serial UART, thus probably\ngetting the sound card slighty confused!.", "Is there anyone out there in NetLand that has/has had one of these?\n\n\nCan someone give me a non-Consumer Reports review (or point me to a source) ???\n\n\nThanks\nScott\n\n-----------------------\nsdexter@ucrengr.ucr.edu\n\tComputer Science Undergraduate,\n\tUniversity of California, Riverside\n\tInternet : 138.23.166.21\n\nsdexter@technet1.shl.com \n \t Facilities Engineer,\n\t SHL SystemHouse, Inc. ,Technology Network\n Internet : 192.75.61.2", "My mac monitor displays about 20 vertical lines when I use it.\nIt means that either my display memory goes wrong or monitor is bad\nor video card is bad.\n I checked my monitor, it works fine with other Mac.\n I checked my video card, it's also fine.\n I replaced all the RAMs, it still didn't give me right answer.\n Hence I assume something wrong with some part of my motherboard.\n\n I don't know hardware architecture of the Macintosh.\n\n Can anyone tell me what's the problem ????\n\n It's a Mac IIcx.\n\n\n MANY THANKS IN ADVANCE.\n\n\nkuan@netcom.netcom.com\n \n\n-- \n", "What about disks? Won't it erase them if you're carrying them in the bag?", "Hi all,\n\nI have a DLL in which I Register a class and create a window of that\nclass type. Both calls require a module instance handle, hInstance.\n\nPetzold's 3.1 book says that it is best to use the module instance\nhandle of the calling program, not the module instance handle of the\nDLL (page 934).\n\nI have two questions:\n\n1) Is there a way to find out the module instance handle of a module?\n\n2) What are the possible problems with using the instance handle of\n the DLL?\n\nThanks in advance,\nMike\n--\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n Mike Smith e-mail: M.Smith@ma30.bull.com\n Bull HN Information Systems Inc. phone: (508) 294-2049\n 300 Concord Road MA30 - 815A fax: (508) 294-3807\n Billerica, MA 01821 USA\n", "Once upon a time, long long ago in this news group, someone\nposted a schematic for a 1-bit A/D converter. Well I just found a use\nfor the little monster. Anyone out there still got this text file?\nIt had a flip-flop, a resistor and a cap, and a comparator/op-amp I \nthink. I would be extremely thankful to anyone who could mail me the \nschematic or post it to the news-group.\n\n\n", "\n\nDB-25\tDB-9\nPin #\tPin #\tName\tEIA\tCCITT\tDTE-DCE\tDescription\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n 1\t\tFG\tAA\t 101\t ----\tFrame ground\n 2\t3\tTD\tBA\t 103\t --->\tTransmitted data\n 3\t2\tRD\tBB\t 104\t <---\tReceived data\n 4\t7\tRTS\tCA\t 105\t --->\tRequest to send\n 5\t8\tCTS\tCB\t 106\t <---\tClear to send\n 6\t6\tDSR\tCC\t 107\t <---\tData set ready\n 7\t5\tSG\tAB\t 102\t ----\tSignal ground\n 8\t1\tDCD\tCF\t 109\t <---\tData carrier detect\n 9\t\t--\t--\t -\t -\tPositive DC test voltage\n10\t\t--\t--\t -\t -\tNegative DC test voltage\n11\t\tQM\t--\t -\t <---\tEqualizer mode\n12\t\tSDCD\tSCF\t 122\t <---\tSecondary data carrier detect\n13\t\tSCTS\tSCB\t 121\t <---\tSecondary clear to send\n14\t\tSTD\tSBA\t 118\t --->\tSecondary transmitted data\n15\t\tTC\tDB\t 114\t <---\tTransmitter clock\n16\t\tSRD\tSBB\t 119\t <---\tSecondary receiver clock\n17\t\tRC\tDD\t 115\t --->\tReceiver clock\n18\t\tDCR\t--\t -\t <---\tDivided clock receiver\n19\t\tSRTS\tSCA\t 120\t --->\tSecondary request to send\n20\t4\tDTR\tCD\t 108.2\t --->\tData terminal ready\n21\t\tSQ\tCG\t 110\t <---\tSignal quality\n22\t9\tRI\tCE\t 125\t <---\tRing indicator\n23\t\t--\tCH\t 111\t --->\tData rate selector\n24\t\t--\tCI\t 112\t <---\tData rate selector\n25\t\tTC\tDA\t 113\t <---\tTransmitted clock\n\n.-.-.- from another posting in c.s.i.p.h .-.-.-\n.-.-.- sorry, don't know the author .-.-.-.-.-.\nConnecting devices\n------------------\n \n Normally, a 7 wire connection is used. Connect:\n GND1 to GND2\n\tRxD1 to TxD2\n\tTxD1 to RxD2\n\tDTR1 to DSR2\n\tDSR1 to DTR2\n\tRTS1 to CTS2\n\tCTS1 to RTS2\n If a modem is connected, add lines for the following:\n RI, DCD\n If software wants it, connect DCD1 to CTS1 and DCD2 to CTS2.\n BEWARE! While PCs use pin 2 for RxD and pin 3 for TxD, modems normally\nhave those pins reversed! This allows to easily connect pin1 to pin1, pin2\nto pin 2 etc. If you connect two PCs, cross RxD and TxD.\n \n If hardware handshaking is not needed, a so-called null-modem connection\ncan be used. Connect:\n GND1 to GND2\n\tRxD1 to TxD2\n\tTxD1 to RxD2\nAdditionally, connect (if software needs it):\n RTS1 to CTS1 & DCD1\n\tRTS2 to CTS2 & DCD2\n\tDTR1 to DSR1\n\tDTR2 to DSR2\nYou won't need long wires for these!\n The null-modem connection is used to establish an XON/XOFF-transmission\nbetween two PCs (see software section for details).\n Remember: the names DTR, DSR, CTS & RTS refer to the lines as seen from\nthe PC. This means that for your data set DTR & RTS are incoming signals\nand DSR & CTS are outputs!\n.-.-.-.- end .-.-.- \n\nMichael", " \nApple does not authorise sales through Mail Order. As a result mail order\ncompanies have to obtain their machines by the grey market.\n\nThis market is supplied with machines from authorised resellers who have\nmore machines than they can sell. They come into this state of affairs\nby overordering either accidentally or deliberatly to get a better\nwholsale price from Apple. In either case they often obscure the serial\nnunber to protect their identity. As a result the warranty is void.\n\nYou may save on sales tax but you have to pay for shipping.\n\nI should also point out that mail order companies cannot get lower prices\nthatn the high volume authorised dealers unless they buy below dealer\ncost. As a result the only way they can sell cheaper is by cutting costs\nand trimming margins. Unfortunatly they dont seem to be doing too well. \nThe lowest prices I have been quoted mailorder do not beat the lowest\nprices available from authorised local dealers.\n\nThey are even further away from educational prices.", "Please excuse if FAQ but...\nNew Trident 8900CL based card claims to have 1280x1024 support.\nDrivers with card indicate several 1280x1024 drivers on diskette.\nWindows 3.1 does not make all drivers on diskette available to\nconfiguration dialog box. Any suggestion?\nThanx; please e-mail.\ndfeldman@uswest.com\n\n", "I need a graphics display program that can take as a parameter the name of\nthe file to be displayed, then just display that image and then quit.\n\nAll of the other graphics display programs come up with a menu first or some\nother silliness.\n\nThis program is going to be run from within another program. I have lots of\nmemory and VGA color. Any graphics format will do. Has anyone heard of such\na beast?\n\n\t\t\t\t\tKeith\n", "\n\nYou realize, of course, that inevitably some anal retentive moron is\ngoing to come along and wag his fingers and his jowls in outrage that\npersonal politics are more important than [SMCAP][BOLD][Font:God\n999pt.]The Law[smcap][bold][font].\n\nBut that's irrelevant to the problem here. Windows came with my\nsystem, but on 5.25\" disks. I hate using 5.25\" disks, so I copied\nthem over to high density 3.5\"'s using xcopy. It worked fine. In\nfact, for a while I was changing configurations and whatnot so much\nthat I decided to try putting them on the hard disk. Not only can you\ncopy them over with one disk per directory, but if you want to, you\ncan simply copy them all into one directory. Makes it a lot nicer\nwhen you're switching printer emulations around.\n\nNorton 6.0 I don't have much experience with, but when a friend's\nsystem crashed, we restored from a backup rather than from the\noriginals, and it worked fine. This would imply that arj a -r norton\nc:\\nu would create a workable backup, and if you did a full install\nthe first time, you've got the whole thing.\n\nNever played with WP for Windows; I'm not too big of a fan of anything\nfrom Utah.\n\nGood luck....\n\nDisclaimer: Don't Copy That Floppy! (tm) Just Say No! (r) Respect Your Elders!\nFor The Wages Of Sin Is (sic) Death And A Hefty Legal Bill! DO YOU OFFEND?\n\nRob", "\n\nMy Centris 610 is working perfectly. There is one problem that I have\nnoticed. FastBack II backup utility does not work!!! The strange thing\nis that it works with my friend's 610 most of the time, however, it never\nworks with my machine. I assume it is some sort of software problem and\nnot hardware related.\n\n\n", "I would like to see a serious discussion on the best way to install windows\nfrom a Novell administrator's point of view.\n \nI just got off the phone with MS Access support and was told that they\n(Microsoft) has decided to implement, as a standard for software support,\nthe LOCAL setup (described below) as the \"most advantageous installation\".\nIf this is true and Microsoft deems this to be the most prudent installation\nthen I will comply but I'd like to hear it from administrators first.\n \nThe LOCAL Windows Installation:\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\nWindows is fully installed on each workstation hard drive (assuming the\nresources are available). From a network administrator's implementation,\nhe/she would install all windows disks on a network drive using SETUP/A.\nThen install windows on a per/machine bases by running SETUP off the network\nto install the complete system on the local drives. In this way, all drivers\nare available to the SETUP procedure w/o the need to change disks.\n \nAdvantages:\n- Reduce Traffic - Running Windows locally reduces network traffic due to\n the local access of main Windows files.\n- Network independence - If the network fails (and they all do at one point\n or another), the local installation would allow users to keep producing\n and reduce the cost of down-time.\n- Faster Windows - Theoretically, Windows will run faster from a local hard\n drive than over a network. This may be a hard point to prove if the network\n has an optical backbone and/or the network drives are significantly faster\n access than local ones.\n- A user traveling from machine to machine does not need to worry about\n varying setups (monochrome, color, types of mouse, etc...) since the\n Windows installation is assigned to the Workstation.\n \nDisadvantages:\n- Cost - Installing Windows locally requires a significant amount of disk\n space. Workstations now must be purchased with a hard disk that can\n increase the cost of the workstation from 10 to 30 percent.\n- Administration - Local windows installations are very difficult to\nadminister.\n New drivers for peripherals are constantly being made available, each of\n which would have to be individually installed on each workstation.\n- Security - Users now have access to erase or corrupt their own system\n files from simple ignorance. This could result in quite a headache for\n administrators who may have to constantly repair damaged installations.\n- Backup - We all know the problems backing up local hard disks. The backup\n sets (if done via a centralized tape system) get very large very quickly.\n Backup individually (to floppy) may not happen at all. This may be\n eliminated if it is assumed that local hard disks only contain replaceable\n applications and *not* user data.\n \nThe SHARED Windows Installation\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\nWindows is fully installed to a network disk via the SETUP/A procedure\ndescribed above. Users (or administrators) then install a minimal set of\nfiles to individual \"user\" directories. These directories may be on a\nlocal hard disk or perhaps a network \"home\" directory. The bulk of the\nWindows system files are maintained on the network in a single directory\n(some 400+ files) and are accessed (shared) as-needed by users throughout\ntheir Windows session. The user's files consist of a small set of files\nthat the user has updated during his/her Windows session. These include\ngroup files, .INI files and other regularly updated files.\n \nAdvantages:\n- A single location for all files makes updates to drives easy. As\n an updated driver becomes available, it only needs to be installed in this\n single directory for all users to be able to take advantage of it.\n- Assuming that the users' files are maintained in network (home) directories,\n the administrator can easily edit any .INI file as-needed to correct\n problems that may arise. This includes WIN.INI and SYSTEM.INI.\n- Backup of all pertinent files is done easily. Even if the users' files\n are on a local hard disk, the bulk of the Windows system is backed up with\n all driver updates.\n \nDisadvantages:\n- Network traffic - since all Windows files are being shared in a network\n directory, traffic on the network can become a problem an effect the\n speed of Windows.\n- If the network crashes, all production comes to a stop since Window's\n is reliant upon the network for its files. Loss of data usually occurs\n as well since users working in Windows at the time of the crash will\n usually not be able to save their work.\n- Although minimal, disk space is still a consideration. If the users' files\n are maintained on the network, a large number of users can cause a\n significant utilization of disk space due to their personal Windows\n files alone.\n- Users cannot easily move from machine to machine unless the workstation\n hardware are similar. This is due to the Windows installation being\n tied to a particular username (in the case of Network user files).\n \nThe Discussion\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\nI would like to know, from other administrators with a large Windows\nuserbase, how they prefer setting up Windows. Personally, I have\nsetup numerous installations using the SHARED setup. All Windows and\napplication files are on the network with little or no utilization of\nlocal hard disks. In fact, I sold a network on the fact that the\ncompany would no longer need to purchase hard disks for their workstations\nand thus save that much more money.\n \nI would also like to see recommendations for applications. Should\napps such as Word and/or Excel be installed locally regardless of how\nWindows is installed? Again, I keep all files on the network for easy\nbackup and administration but this is \"putting all eggs in one basket\";\nif the network crashes, work comes to a halt.", "I finally got a 24 bit viewer for my POVRAY generated .TGA files.\n\nIt was written in C by Sean Malloy and he kindly sent me a copy. He\nwrote it for the same purpose, to view .TGA files using his SpeedStar 24.\n\nIt ONLY works with the SpeedStar 24 and I cannot send copies since it is\nnot my program. I believe the author may release a version at a future\ntime when the program is more developed. He may or may not comment on\nthis, as he pleases.\n\nThanks to all who were helpful.\n\nRegards,", "Archive-name: macintosh/general-faq\nVersion: 2.1.3\nLast-modified: April 16, 1993\n\nCopyright 1993, Elliotte Harold\n\n\nChanges:\n\n\t2.1: Where can I FTP Macintosh software?\n\n\t\tI added the ftp site anl.anl.fr.\n\n\n 2.5: What is .bin? .hqx? .cpt? .image? .etc.?\n\n \tDisk Doubler will decode Packit archives. Binhex 5.0\n \twill decode MacBinary files, NOT StuffIt files as the\n \tlast version erroneously indicated.\n \t\n 2.7: I added the question \n \n How can I get Binhex, StuffIt etc. from a PC?\n\n \n\n\n comp.sys.mac.faq\n Part 1: An Introduction to the Macintosh Newsgroups\n\n\nI. Introduction\n 1. How do I use this document?\n 2. What other information is available?\n 3. Which newsgroup should I post to?\n 4. Someone just asked why the System was taking up sixteen \n megabytes on their IIcx. Shouldn't I display my knowledge \n to the world by posting the seventeenth response to \n their question?\nII. FTP\n 1. Where can I FTP Macintosh software?\n 2. Can I get shareware by E-mail?\n 3. Where can I find Application X?\n 4. Can someone mail me Application X?\n 5. What is .bin? .hqx? .cpt? .image? .etc.?\n 6. How can I get BinHex? StuffIt? etc.?\n 7. How can I get BinHex, StuffIt, etc. from a PC?\nIII. Troubleshooting. What to do when things go wrong\n 1. Identify the problem.\n 2. Read the READ ME file.\n 3. Check for viruses.\n 4. Reinstall the application and all its support files.\n 5. Reinstall the system software.\n 6. Isolate the problem.\n 7. Contact technical support.\nIV. Preventive Maintenance\n 1. Trash Unneeded Files\n 2. Reevaluate Your Extensions\n 3. Rebuild the desktop.\n 4. Zap the PRAM and Reset the Clock\n 5. Resize the system heap.\n 6. Reinstall the system software.\n 7. Disk Utilities\n 8. Backing Up \n 9. Disk Defragmentation\n 10. Reformatting and partitioning your hard disk\n\nOther FAQ lists currently available:\n\nB. comp.sys.mac.system:\n\nI. Memory\n 1. Why is my system using so much memory?\n 2. What is Mode 32? the 32-bit enabler? Do I need them?\n 3. Cache and Carry (How much memory should I allot to my cache?)\nII. System Software\n 1. Why does Apple charge for System 7.1?\n 2. What does System 7.1 give me for my $35 that System 7.0 doesn't?\n 3. Where can I get System 7.1?\n 4. How can I use System 6 on a System 7 only Mac? \n 5. Non-US scripts and systems\n 6. What is System 7 Tuneup? Do I need it?\n 7. Why do my DA's disappear when I turn on MultiFinder?\n 8. Do I need System 7.0.1?\n 9. How can I get System 7.0.1 on 800K disks?\nIII. Hard Disks, Filesharing, and the File System\n 1. Help! My folder disappeared!\n 2. Why can't I throw this folder away?\n 3. Why can't I share my removable drive?\n 4. Why can't I eject this SyQuest cartridge? CD-ROM? etc.\n 5. Why can't I rename my hard disk?\nIV. Miscellaneous:\n 1. What does System Error XXX mean?\n 2. What is a Type 1 error?\n 3. What is A/ROSE?\n 4. Easy Access or One Answer, Many Questions\n\n\nC. comp.sys.mac.misc:\n\nI. Viruses\n 1. Help! I have a virus!\n 2. Reporting new viruses\nII. Printing and PostScript\n 1. How do I make a PostScript file?\n 2. How do I print a PostScript file?\n 3. Why won't my PostScript file print on my mainframe's printer?\n 4. Why are my PostScript files so big?\n 5. How can I print PostScript on a non-PostScript printer?\n 6. How do I make my ImageWriter II print in color?\n 7. Why doesn't PrintMonitor work with the ImageWriter?\n 8. Why did my document change when I printed it?\n 9. How can I preview a PostScript file?\n 10. How do I edit a PostScript file?\nIII. DOS and the Mac\n 1. How can I move files between a Mac and a PC?\n 2. How can I translate files to a DOS format?\n 3. Should I buy SoftPC or a real PC?\nIV. Security\n 1. How can I prevent users from changing the contents of a folder?\n 2. How can I password protect my Mac?\nV. No particular place to go (Miscellaneous Miscellanea)\n 1. Are there any good books about the Mac?\n 2. How do I take a picture of the screen?\n 3. How do I use a picture for my desktop?\n 4. Can I Replace the \"Welcome to Macintosh\" box with a picture?\n 5. What is AutoDoubler? SpaceSaver? More Disk Space? Are they safe?\n 6. How do they compare to TimesTwo, Stacker and eDisk?\n 7. Where did my icons go?\n 8. Where can I find a user group?\n\n This work is Copyright 1993 by Elliotte M. Harold. Permission\n is hereby granted to distribute this unmodified document provided\n that no fee in excess of normal on-line charges is required for\n such distribution. Portions of this document may be extracted and\n quoted free of charge and without necessity of citation in normal\n on-line communication provided only that said quotes are not\n represented as the correspondent's original work. Permission for\n quotation of this document in printed material and edited on-line\n communication (such as the Info-Mac Digest and TidBITS) is given\n subject to normal citation procedures (i.e. you have to say where\n you got it). \n \n Disclaimer: I do my best to ensure that information contained \n in this document is current and accurate, but I can accept no\n responsibility for actions resulting from information contained\n herein. This document is provided as is and with no warranty of \n any kind. Corrections and suggestions should be addressed to\n erh0362@tesla.njit.edu. \n \n Apple, Macintosh, LaserWriter, ImageWriter, Finder, HyperCard and\n MultiFinder are registered trademarks and PowerBook is a trademark\n of Apple Computer, Inc. Linotronic is a registered trademark of\n Linotype-Hell AG, Inc. PostScript is a registered trademark and\n Illustrator and Photoshop are trademarks of Adobe Systems, Inc. \n Microsoft is a registered trademark of Microsoft Corporation. \n PageMaker is a registered trademark of Aldus Corp. AutoDoubler \n and DiskDoubler are trademarks of Fifth Generation Systems, Inc. \n StuffIt and StuffIt Deluxe are trademarks of Raymond Lau and\n Aladdin Systems, Inc. StuffIt SpaceSaver is a trademark of Aladdin\n Systems, Inc. More Disk Space is a trademark of Alysis Software\n Corporation. TimesTwo is a trademark of Golden Triangle Computers,\n Inc. UNIX is a registered trademark of AT&T. All other tradenames\n are trademarks of their respective manufacturers.\n \n This is the FIRST part of the this FAQ. The second part is \n posted to comp.sys.mac.system and features many questions about\n system software. The third part is posted every two weeks in\n comp.sys.mac.misc. Tables of contents for those two pieces are\n included above. Please familiarize yourself with all three\n sections of this document before posting. \n \n All pieces are available for anonymous ftp from\n rtfm.mit.edu (18.172.1.27) in the directory \n pub/usenet/news.answers/macintosh. Except for this introductory\n FAQ which appears in multiple newsgroups and is stored as\n general-faq.Z, the name of each file has the format of the last\n part of the group name followed by \"-faq.Z\", e.g the FAQ for\n comp.sys.mac.system is stored as system-faq.Z and the FAQ for\n comp.sys.mac.misc is stored as misc-faq.Z. RTFM stores files as \n compressed (.Z) BINARY files. If you leave off the .Z at the end\n of the file name when \"getting\" the file, rtfm will automatically \n decompress the file before sending it to you. You can also have \n these files mailed to you by sending an E-mail message to \n mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu with the line: send\n pub/usenet/news.answers/macintosh/\"name\" in the body text where\n \"name\" is the name of the file you want as specified above (e.g.\n general-faq). You can also send this server a message with the\n subject \"help\" for more detailed instructions. \n\n \n\n ==================== \n I HAVE A QUESTION... (1.0)\n ====================\n \n Congratulations! You've come to the right place. Usenet is \n a wonderful resource for information ranging from basic questions\n (How do I lock a floppy disk?) to queries that would make Steve\n Jobs himself run screaming from the room in terror. (I used\n ResEdit to remove resources Init #11, WDEF 34, and nVIR 17 from my\n system file and used the Hex Editor to add code string #A67B45 as a\n patch to the SFGetFile routine so the Standard File Dialog Box\n would be a nice shade of mauve. Everything worked fine until I\n installed SuperCDevBlaster, and now when I use the Aldus driver to\n print from PageMaker 5.0d4 to a Linotronic 6000 my system hangs. \n P.S. I'm running System 6.0.2 on a PowerBook 170.) \n \n Since the Macintosh newsgroups are medium to high volume, we\n ask that you first peruse this FAQ list including at least the\n table of contents for the other pieces of it, check any other\n relevant on-line resources listed below in question 1.2, especially\n the FAQ lists for the other Macintosh newsgroups, and RTFM (Read\n the Friendly Manual) before posting your question. We realize that\n you are personally incensed that the System is taking up fourteen\n of your newly-installed twenty megs of RAM, but this question has\n already made its way around the world three hundred times before,\n and it's developing tired feet. Finally, before posting to any\n newsgroup (Macintosh or otherwise), please familiarize yourself\n with the basic etiquette of Usenet as described in the newsgroup\n news.announce.newusers.\n\n\n HOW DO I USE THIS DOCUMENT? WHERE CAN I GET IT? (1.1) \n \n comp.sys.mac.faq is currently divided into multiple pieces,\n a general introduction which you're reading now, and specific lists\n for the newsgroups comp.sys.mac.system and comp.sys.mac.misc. FAQ\n lists for comp.sys.mac.wanted, comp.sys.mac.apps and\n comp.sys.mac.hardware are in development. When ready each part\n will be available in its respective newsgroup. All pieces are\n available via anonymous ftp from rtfm.mit.edu in the\n pub/usenet/news.answers/macintosh directory. Except for this\n document itself which is named general-faq.Z the pieces are named\n as per the last part of the newsgroup they cover followed by\n \"-faq\", e.g. system-faq.Z, misc-faq.Z. The .Z means the file is\n stored compressed so you'll need to ftp it in binary mode and use\n either MacCompress, StuffIt Deluxe, or the UNIX uncompress command \n to decompress it. However if you leave off the \".Z\" extension when\n you \"get\" the file, rtfm will automatically decompress the file\n before sending it to you. \n \n This introductory document is posted to all of the concerned\n newsgroups. The tables of contents for each of the specific FAQ\n lists are at the beginning of this file so you should be able to\n get at least some idea whether your question is answered anywhere\n else in the FAQ even if you don't have the other parts at hand. \n It's not always obvious, especially to newcomers, where a\n particular question or comment should be posted. Please\n familiarize yourself with the FAQ lists in all the major Macintosh\n newsgroups before posting in any of them. Which questions appear\n in which FAQs can serve as a basic guide to what posts belong\n where. \n \n To jump to a particular question search for\n section-number.question-number enclosed in parentheses. For\n example to find \"Where can I FTP Macintosh software?\" search for\n the string \"(2.1)\". To jump to a section instead of a question\n use a zero for the question number.\n\n\n WHAT OTHER INFORMATION IS AVAILABLE? (1.2)\n\n comp.sys.mac.faq provides short answers to a number of \n frequently asked questions appropriate for the Usenet newsgroup\n comp.sys.mac.misc and comp.sys.mac.system. Four other files are\n worthy of particular note: Daryl Spitzer maintains a FAQ list\n covering Macintosh programming for the newsgroup\n comp.sys.mac.programmer. It's posted to that group weekly and \n available for anonymous ftp from ftp.cs.uoregon (128.223.8.8) in \n /pub/mac. Eric Rosen maintains a frequently asked questions list \n for comp.sys.mac.comm available in that newsgroup and from\n rascal.ics.utexas.edu in mac/faq (where the file you're reading now\n is also irregularly archived). This list answers many frequently\n asked questions about networking, UNIX and the Mac,\n telecommunications, and foreign file formats. Norm Walsh has\n compiled an excellent FAQ for comp.fonts that answers a lot of\n questions about the various kinds of fonts and cross-platform\n conversion and printing. It's available in comp.fonts or by ftp\n from ibis.cs.umass.edu in /pub/norm/comp.fonts/FAQ*. Finally Jim\n Jagielski maintains a FAQ for comp.unix.aux covering Apple's UNIX\n environment, A/UX. It's posted every 2 to 3 weeks in comp.unix.aux\n and news.answers. It's available for anonymous ftp at\n jagubox.gsfc.nasa.gov.\n\n\n WHICH NEWSGROUP SHOULD I POST TO? (1.3)\n \n There are no stupid questions, but there are misplaced ones. \n You wouldn't ask your English teacher how to do the definite\n integral of ln x between zero and one, would you? So don't ask\n the programmer newsgroup why your system is so slow when Microsoft\n Word is in the background. Ignorance of basic netiquette is not an\n excuse. If you want people to help you, you need to learn their\n ways of communicating. \n \n Posting questions to the proper newsgroup will fill your\n mailbox with pearls of wisdom (and maybe a few rotten oysters too\n :-) ). Posting to the wrong newsgroup often engenders a thundering\n silence. For instance the most common and glaring mispost, one\n that seems as incongruous to dwellers in the Macintosh regions of\n Usenet as would a purple elephant to Aleuts in the Arctic, asking a\n question about networking anywhere except comp.sys.mac.comm,\n normally produces no useful responses. Posting the same question\n to comp.sys.mac.comm ensures that your post is read and considered\n by dozens of experienced network administrators and not a few\n network software designers.\n \n Please post to exactly ONE newsgroup. Do not cross-post. \n If a question isn't important enough for you to take the extra\n minute to figure out where it properly belongs, it's not important\n enough for several thousand people to spend their time reading. \n For the same reason comp.sys.mac.misc should not be used as a\n catch-all newsgroup.\n \n The breakdown of questions between different newsgroups in\n this document can also serve as a reasonable guide to what belongs\n where. Specifically questions about productivity applications\n (software you bought your Macintosh to run, not software you bought\n to make your Macintosh run better) should go to comp.sys.mac.apps\n unless the application is covered in a more specific newsgroup. \n Communications programs, games, HyperCard, compilers and databases\n all have more topical comp.sys.mac.* newsgroups. Post questions\n about non-communications hardware including questions about what\n software is necessary to make particular hardware work to\n comp.sys.mac.hardware. Questions about MacOS system software\n belong in comp.sys.mac.system. Questions about utilities and\n extensions normally belong in comp.sys.mac.misc. Questions about\n A/UX go to comp.unix.aux. Detailed questions about Appletalk\n belong in comp.protocols.appletalk.\n \n Direct questions about HyperCard to comp.sys.mac.hypercard. \n Non-HyperCard programming questions and questions about development\n environments should go to comp.sys.mac.programmer. ResEdit\n questions may be posted either to comp.sys.mac.misc,\n comp.sys.mac.system, or comp.sys.mac.programmer; but generally the\n netters who inhabit the darker recesses of comp.sys.mac.programmer\n are considerably more practiced at the art of resource hacking. \n \n A general exception to the above rules is that any VERY\n technical question about an application that actually begins to\n delve into the how's of a program as well as the what's (Recent\n example: How does WriteNow which is written entirely in assembly\n compare to other word processors written in high level languages?)\n might be better addressed to the programmer newsgroup.\n \n For Sale and Want to Buy posts should go to\n comp.sys.mac.wanted and misc.forsale.computers.mac ONLY. We\n understand that you're desperate to sell your upgraded 128K Mac to\n get the $$ for a PowerBook 180; but trust me, anyone who wants to\n buy it will be reading comp.sys.mac.wanted. Political and\n religious questions (The Mac is better than Windows! Is not! Is\n too! Is not! Is too! Hey! How 'bout the Amiga! What about it? Is\n Not! Is too!) belong in comp.sys.mac.advocacy. Anything not\n specifically mentioned above probably belongs in comp.sys.mac.misc.\n \n Finally don't be so provincial as to consider only the\n comp.sys.mac newsgroups the appropriate forums for your questions. \n Many questions about modems in comp.sys.mac.comm are much more\n thoroughly discussed in comp.dcom.modems. Questions about Mac MIDI\n are often better handled in comp.music even though it's not a\n Macintosh specific newsgroup. Shop around. Usenet's a big place\n and not everything relevant to the Macintosh happens in\n comp.sys.mac.\n\n\n 4. SOMEONE JUST ASKED WHY THE SYSTEM WAS TAKING UP SIXTEEN OF\n THEIR TWENTY MEGABYTES OF RAM. SHOULDN'T I PUT MY BRILLIANCE AND\n WIT ON DISPLAY FOR THE WORLD BY POSTING THE SEVENTEENTH RESPONSE?\n\n No. Frequent answers are just as boring and uninteresting as\n frequent questions. Unless you really have something new to add to\n the traditional answers (such as the recent discovery that fonts in\n System 7.1 could eat memory) private E-mail is a much better medium\n for answering common questions like this one.\n \n You might want to add a mention of this FAQ in your E-mail\n response and a polite suggestion that your correspondent read it\n before posting future questions. I do read all the newsgroups\n covered here and have written a small script in MicroPhone II that\n lets me send PWFAQ's (people with frequently asked questions) the\n section of this document that answers their question with just the\n click of a button so please don't feel obligated to respond to\n someone who cares so little about the answer to their question they\n can't be troubled to read the FAQ list to get it.\n\n \n\n === \n FTP (2.0) \n ===\n\n WHERE CAN I FTP MAC SOFTWARE? (2.1)\n\n The three major North American Internet archives of shareware,\n freeware, and demo software are sumex-aim.stanford.edu (36.44.0.6),\n mac.archive.umich.edu (141.211.165.41), and wuarchive.wustl.edu\n (128.252.135.4) which mirrors the other two sites and several\n others. Wuarchive often holds on to files after other sites remove\n them for space concerns, and still has files that were deleted from\n the formerly important site, rascal.ics.utexas.edu. Rascal was\n notable for storing its files in MacBinary format rather than the\n less efficient BinHex format common at the other archives. Unless\n otherwise noted shareware and freeware mentioned in this document\n should be available at the above sites.\n \n To keep traffic on the Internet manageable, Scandinavians \n should try connecting to ftp.funet.fi (128.214.6.100), ftp.lth.se\n (130.235.20.3), or sics.se (192.16.123.90) instead. Those in \n the U.K. should look first at src.doc.ic.ac.uk (146.169.2.1). \n Continental Europeans can try nic.switch.ch (130.59.1.40), \n ezinfo.ethz.ch (129.132.2.72), and anl.anl.fr(192.54.179.1). \n Australian users should try to find what they want at archie.au\n (139.130.4.6) which mirrors info-mac and mac.archive. Japanese\n users will find sumex mirrored at ftp.u-tokyo.ac.jp\n (130.69.254.254). \n\n A fourth very important site is ftp.apple.com (130.43.2.3). \n This is Apple's semi-official repository for system software,\n developer tools, source code, technical notes, and other things\n that come more or less straight from Apple's mouth. Some material\n at this site may not be distributed outside the U.S. or by other\n sites that don't have an official license to distribute Apple\n system software. Please read the various README documents\n available at ftp.apple.com for the detailed info if you're\n connecting from outside the U.S. or if you wish to redistribute\n material you find here.\n\n\n CAN I GET SHAREWARE BY E-MAIL? (2.2)\n\n The info-mac archives at sumex-aim are available by E-mail from\n LISTSERV@RICEVM1.bitnet (alternately listserv@ricevm1.rice.edu). \n The listserver responds to the commands $MACARCH HELP, $MACARCH\n INDEX, and $MACARCH GET filename. Mac archive files are available\n from mac@mac.archive.umich.edu. Send it a message containing the\n words \"help\" and \"index\" (no quotes) on the first two lines of your\n message for instructions on getting started and a list of the files\n you may request. You can retrieve files from other sites by using\n the server at ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com. For details send it a\n message with just the text \"help\" (no quotes).\n\n\n WHERE CAN I FIND APPLICATION X? (2.3)\n\n If you can't find what you're looking for at one of the above\n sites, try telnetting to your nearest archie server or sending it\n an E-mail message addressed to archie with the subject \"help.\" \n Archie servers are located at archie.rutgers.edu (128.6.18.15,\n America), archie.mcgill.ca (132.206.2.3, the original archie server\n in Canada), archie.au (139.130.4.6, Australia), archie.funet.fi\n (128.214.6.100, Scandinavia), and archie.doc.ic.ac.uk (146.169.3.7,\n the U.K. and the continent). These sites index the tens of\n thousands of files available for anonymous ftp. Login as \"archie\"\n (no password is needed) and type \"prog filename\" to find what\n you're looking for or type \"help\" for more detailed instructions. \n For instance you would type \"prog Disinfectant\" to search for a\n convenient ftp site for Disinfectant. If the initial search fails\n to turn up the file you want, try variations on and substrings of\n the name. For instance if you didn't find Disinfectant with \"prog\n Disinfectant\", you might try \"prog disi\" instead. Substring\n searches often hide the gold in a pile of dross. To avoid many\n erroneous matches add a \".*\\.hqx\" to the end of the substring, e.g.\n \"prog disi.*\\.hqx\" Most Mac software available on the net ends in\n .hqx but almost no UNIX or PC software does. \n\n Please check the above archives and ARCHIE personally BEFORE\n asking where you can find a particular piece of shareware. If you\n follow the above advice, you should almost never have to ask the\n net where to find a particular piece of software.\n\n\n CAN SOMEONE MAIL ME APPLICATION X? (2.4)\n\n No. Nor will anyone mail you a part of a file from\n comp.binaries.mac that was corrupt or missed at your site. Please\n refer to the first questions in this section to find out about\n anonymous FTP, archie, and automatic E-mail servers.\n\n\n WHAT IS .BIN? .HQX? .CPT? .ETC? (2.5)\n\n Most files available by FTP are modified twice to allow them to\n more easily pass through foreign computer systems. First they're\n compressed to make them faster to download, and then they're\n translated to either a binhex (.hqx) or MacBinary (.bin) format\n that other computers can digest. (The Macintosh uses a special\n two-fork filing system that chokes most other computers.) BinHex\n files are 7-bit ASCII text files, while MacBinary files are pure\n 8-bit binary data that must always be transferred using a binary\n protocol.\n \n How a file has been translated and compressed for\n transmission is indicated by its suffix. Normally a file will have\n a name something like filename.xxx.yyy. .xxx indicates how it was\n compressed and .yyy indicates how it was translated. To use a file\n you've FTP'd and downloaded to your Mac you'll need to reverse the\n process. Most files you get from the net require a two-step\n decoding process. First change the binhex (.hqx) or MacBinary\n (.bin) file to a double-clickable Macintosh file; then decompress\n it. Which programs decode which file types is covered in the table\n below. Also note that most Macintosh telecommunications programs\n will automatically convert MacBinary files to regular Macintosh\n files as they are downloaded.\n\n***************************************************************************\nSuffix: .sit .cpt .hqx .bin .pit .Z .image .dd .zip .uu .tar \nExtractors\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\nStuffIt 3.0| X X X X X \nCompact Pro| X X \nPackit | X\nUUTool | X \nMacCompress| X \nSunTar | X X X X \nBinHex 5.0 | X \nBinHex 4.0 | X \nDiskDoubler| X X \nUnZip | X \nDiskCopy | X \nmacutil | X X X X\n***************************************************************************\n\n A few notes on the decompressors:\n\n StuffIt is a family of products that use several different\n compression schemes. The freeware StuffIt Expander will unstuff\n all of them. Versions of StuffIt earlier than 3.0 (StuffIt 1.5.1,\n StuffIt Classic, UnStuffIt, and StuffIt Deluxe 2.0 and 1.0) will\n not unstuff the increasing number of files stuffed by StuffIt 3.0. \n You need to get a more recent version of StuffIt or StuffIt\n Expander. \n \n StuffIt 3.0.5 (Lite and Deluxe) consistently makes smaller\n archives than any other Macintosh compression utility. To allow\n maximum space for files on the various ftp sites and to keep\n net-bandwidth down, please compress all files you send to anonymous\n ftp sites with StuffIt 3.0.5.\n \n UUTool, MacCompress, and SunTar handle the popular UNIX\n formats of uuencode (.uu), compress (.Z), and tar (.tar)\n respectively. The UNIX versions are often more robust than the Mac\n products, so use them instead when that's an option. Translators\n that allow StuffIt Lite to expand uuencoded and tar files are also\n available by anonymous ftp. \n \n Macutil is dik winter's package of UNIX utilities to\n decompress and debinhex files on a workstation before downloading\n them to a Mac. Since UNIX stores files differently than does the\n Mac, macutil creates MacBinary (.bin) files which should be\n automatically converted on download. It can't decompress\n everything. In particular it can't decompress the new StuffIt 3.0\n archives. :-( However, if you need only one or two files out of an\n archive--for instance if you want to read the README to find out if\n a program does what you need it to do before you download all of\n it--macutil is indispensable. It can be found at sumex-aim in the\n info-mac/unix directory.\n\n A few notes on the compression formats:\n\n .bin: These are MacBinary files. Always use a binary file\n transfer protocol when transferring them, never ASCII or text. \n Most files on the net are stored as .hqx instead. Only rascal\n stores most of its files in .bin format. Most communications\n programs such as ZTerm and MacKermit are capable of translating\n MacBinary files on the fly as they download if they know in advance\n they'll be downloading MacBinary files.\n \n .image: This format is normally used only for system software,\n so that on-line users can download files that can easily be\n converted into exact copies of the installer floppies. Instead of\n using DiskCopy to restore the images to floppies, you can use Steve\n Christensen's freeware utility MountImage to treat the images on\n your hard disk as actual floppies inserted in a floppy drive. \n MountImage has a reputation for being buggy, so you should have\n some blank floppies and a copy of DiskCopy handy just in case.\n \n .sea (.x, .X): .sea files don't merit a position in the above\n table because they're self-extracting. They may have been created\n with Compact Pro, StuffIt, or even DiskDoubler; but all should be\n capable of decompressing themselves when double-clicked. For some\n unknown reason Alysis has chosen not to use this industry standard\n designation for self-extracting archives created with their \n payware products SuperDisk! and More Disk Space. Instead they \n append either .x or .X to self-extracting archives.\n\n\n HOW CAN I GET BINHEX? STUFFIT? ETC.? (2.6)\n\n By far the easiest way to get these programs is to ask a human\n being to copy them onto a floppy for you. If you're at a\n university there's absolutely no excuse for not finding someone to\n give you a copy; and if you're anywhere less remote than McMurdo\n Sound, chances are very good that someone at a computer center,\n dealership, or user group can provide you with a copy of StuffIt. \n Once you have StuffIt (any version) you don't need BinHex.\n \n If you're such a computer geek that the thought of actually\n asking a living, breathing human being instead of a computer \n terminal for something turns you into a quivering mass of \n protoplasmic jelly, you can probably download a working copy of\n StuffIt from a local bulletin board system. \n \n If you have religious objections to software gotten by any \n means other than anonymous ftp, then I suppose I'll mention that \n you can in fact ftp a working copy of StuffIt though this is by \n far the hardest way to get it. Ftp to wuarchive.wustl.edu and \n login. Type the word \"binary.\" Hit return. Type \"cd\n mirrors/rascal.ics.utexas.edu/compression\" and hit return. Then\n \"get StuffIt_Expander_1.0.1_SEA_bin\" and hit return. Of course\n it's always possible that by the time you read this StuffIt\n Expander will have been updated and the name changed so if this\n fails look for something similar. If you've ftp'd straight onto\n your Mac you should now have a self-extracting archive which will\n produce a working copy of StuffIt Expander when double-clicked. If\n you've ftp'd to your mainframe or UNIX account first, you still\n need to use a modem program to download it to your Mac. Just make\n sure that the Mac is receiving in MacBinary mode and the mainframe\n is sending in binary mode. If you need more details on the last\n step, consult the FAQ list for comp.sys.mac.comm and the manuals\n for both your mainframe and Macintosh telecommunications software.\n \n \n HOW CAN I GET BINHEX, STUFFIT, ETC. FROM A PC? (2.7)\n\n You can't. There is absolutely NO way to get an executable\n Macintosh file from an ftp site onto a PC and then onto your Mac\n without some software obtained by means other than anonymous ftp.\n You MUST beg, borrow, or steal the necessary software such as\n Binhex or StuffIt Lite from another person. I realize this may \n terrify those among you who haven't left your parents' basement \n since you got an Apple II+ in 1980, but eventually you're going \n to need to link up with some human being other than your mother. \n (though I suppose if you're this much of a nerd you could send \n your mother out to get it for you.) While you're gathering\n your nerves for a venture into the strange and terrifying world \n of daylight, please don't bother the net by asking this question\n again. There simply is no way to move executable Macintosh\n programs from a PC or other non-Macintosh computer onto a \n Mac without software that is not bundled with most Macs.\n\n\n\n=================================================================\nTROUBLESHOOTING: WHAT TO DO (BEFORE POSTING) WHEN THINGS GO WRONG (3.0)\n================================================================= \n\n While the various FAQ lists cover a lot of specific\n problems, there are far more problems that aren't covered here. \n These are a few basic techniques you should follow before asking\n for help. You should probably also perform the ten-step\n preventative maintenance routine described in section four,\n especially rebuilding the desktop (4.3) and resizing the system\n heap (4.5). Following these steps may or may not solve your\n problem, but it will at least make it easier for others to\n recommend solutions to you.\n\n IDENTIFY THE PROBLEM. (3.1)\n\n \"Microsoft Word is crashing\" doesn't say much. What were you\n doing when it crashed? Can you repeat the actions that lead to the\n crash? The more information you provide about the actions\n preceding the crash the more likely it is someone can help you. \n The more precisely you've identified the problem and the actions\n preceding it (Step 1) the easier it will be to tell if the\n following steps fix the problem. For example, \"Sometimes\n QuarkXPress 3.0 crashes with a coprocessor not installed error.\" is\n not nearly as helpful as \"QuarkXPress 3.0 crashes when I link two\n text boxes on a master page when copies of those text boxes already\n contain text.\" The former will leave you wondering whether the bug\n remains after a given step. The latter lets you go right to the\n problem and see if it's still there or not.\n\n\n READ THE READ ME FILE. (3.2)\n\n Many companies include a list of known incompatibilities and\n bugs in their READ ME files. Often these aren't documented in the\n manual. Read any READ ME files to see if any of the problems sound\n familiar.\n\n\n CHECK FOR VIRUSES. (3.3)\n\n Run Disinfectant or another anti-viral across your disk. Virus\n infections are rarer than most people think, but they do occur and\n they do cause all sorts of weird problems when they do.\n\n\n REINSTALL THE APPLICATION AND ALL ITS SUPPORT FILES. (3.4) \n \n For half a dozen reasons (external magnetic fields,\n improperly written software, the alignment of the planets) a file\n on a disk may not contain the data it's supposed to contain. This\n can cause all types of unexplained, unusual behavior. Restoring\n from original masters will normally fix this.\n\n\n REINSTALL THE SYSTEM SOFTWARE. (3.5) \n\n Bits are even more likely to get twiddled in the system file\n than in the application and the effects can be just as disastrous. \n See question 4.6 for a detailed procedure for performing a clean\n reinstall. \n \n If the problem continues to occur after you've taken these\n steps, chances are you've found either a conflict between your\n application and some other software or a genuine bug in the\n program. So it's time to\n\n\n ISOLATE THE PROBLEM. (3.6) \n \n You need to find the minimal system on which the problem\n will assert itself. Here are the basic steps of isolating the\n cause of a system or application crash:\n \n a.\tRun only one application at a time. Occasionally applications do\n conflict with each other. If the problem does not manifest itself\n without other applications running simultaneously, you can begin\n launching other applications until you find the one that causes \n the crash.\n \n b.\tIf you're running System 6, turn off MultiFinder. If you're\n running System 7, allot as much memory to the application as you \n can afford. Sometimes programs just need more memory, especially \n when performing complicated operations.\n \n c. If you're running System 7, turn off virtual memory and 32-bit\n addressing. There's still an awful lot of System 7 hostile\n software out there including some from companies that really \n have no excuse. (Can you say Microsoft Word 5.1, boys and girls? \n I knew you could.) Some of this software only expresses its \n incompatibilities when certain uncommon actions are taken.\n \n d.\tBoot from a virgin system floppy. If the problem disappears\n you likely have an init conflict. You need to progressively remove\n extensions until the problem vanishes. Use a little common sense\n when choosing the first extensions to remove. If the problem occurs\n when you try to open a file, remove any inits that mess with the\n Standard File Open procedure such as Super Boomerang first. If the\n problem remains after the obvious candidates have been eliminated,\n either remove the remaining extensions one at a time or, if you have\n a lot of them, perform a binary search by removing half of the\n extensions at a time. Once the problem disappears add half of the\n most recently removed set back. Continue until you've narrowed the\n conflict down to one extension. When you think you've found the\n offending init restart with only that init enabled just to make \n sure that it and it alone is indeed causing the problem.\n\n\n CONTACT TECHNICAL SUPPORT. (3.7)\n\n By now you should have a very good idea of when, where, and why\n the conflict occurs. If a tech support number is available for the\n software, call it. If you're lucky the company will have a work\n around or fix available. If not, perhaps they'll at least add the\n bug to their database of problems to be fixed in the next release.\n\n \n\n ====================== \n PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE (4.0)\n ======================\n\n You wouldn't drive your car 100,000 miles without giving it a\n tune-up. A computer is no different. Regular tune-ups avoid a lot\n of problems. Although there are Mac mechanics who'll be happy to\n charge you $75 or more for the equivalent of an oil change, there's\n no reason you can't change it yourself. The following nine-step\n program should be performed about every three months. \n\n\n TRASH UNNEEDED FILES (4.1)\n\n Many of the operations that follow will run faster and more\n smoothly the more free disk space there is to work with so spend a\n little time cleaning up your hard disk. If you're at all like me,\n you'll find several megabytes worth of preferences files for\n applications you no longer have, archives of software you've\n dearchived, shareware you tried out and didn't like, announcements\n for events that have come and gone and many other files you no\n longer need. If you're running System 7 you may also have several\n more megabytes in your trash can alone. Throw them away and empty \n the trash.\n\n\n RETHINK YOUR EXTENSIONS (4.2)\n\n Some Macintoshes attract inits like a new suit attracts rain. \n Seriously consider whether you actually need every extension \n in your collection. If you don't use the functionality of an\n extension at least every fifth time you boot up, you're probably\n better off not storing it in your System Folder where it only takes\n up memory, destabilizes your system, and slows down every startup. \n For instance if you only read PC disks once a month, there's no\n need to keep AccessPC loaded all the time. Cutting back on your\n extension habit can really help avoid crashes. \n\n\n REBUILD THE DESKTOP (4.3)\n\n The Desktop file/database holds all the information necessary\n to associate each file with the application that created it. It\n lets the system know what application should be launched when you\n open a given file and what icons it should display where. \n Depending on its size each application has one or more\n representatives in the desktop file. As applications and files\n move on and off your hard disk, the Desktop file can be become\n bloated and corrupt. Think of it as a Congress for your Mac. \n Every so often it's necessary to throw the bums out and start with\n a clean slate. Fortunately it's easier to rebuild the desktop than\n to defeat an incumbent. \n \n One warning: rebuilding the desktop will erase all comments\n you've stored in the Get Info boxes. Under System 7 Maurice\n Volaski's freeware init CommentKeeper will retain those comments\n across a rebuild. CommentKeeper also works with System 6 but only \n if Apple's Desktop Manager extension is also installed. \n \n To rebuild the desktop restart your Mac and, as your\n extensions finish loading, depress the Command and Option keys. \n You'll be presented with a dialog box asking if you want to rebuild\n the desktop and warning you that \"This could take a few minutes.\" \n Click OK. It will take more than a few minutes. The more files you\n have the longer it will take. If you're running System 6 you may\n want to turn off MultiFinder before trying to rebuild the desktop.\n \n If you're experiencing definite problems and not just doing\n preventive maintenance, you may want to use Fifth Generation's\n freeware init Desktop Reset. Desktop Reset completely deletes the\n Desktop file before rebuilding it, thus eliminating possibly\n corrupt data structures. \n\n\n ZAP THE PRAM AND RESET THE CLOCK (4.4)\n\n All Macs from the original 128K Thin Mac to the Quadra 950\n contain a small amount of battery powered RAM to hold certain\n settings that properly move with the CPU rather than with the disk\n such as which disk to boot from. Unfortunately this \"parameter\n RAM\" can become corrupted and cause unexplained crashes. To reset\n it under System 7 hold down the Command, Option, P, and R keys\n while restarting your Mac. Under System 6 hold down the Command,\n Option, and Shift keys while selecting the Control Panel from the\n Apple menu. Click Yes when asked if you want to zap the parameter\n RAM. Since you've erased almost all the settings in the General\n Control Panel, you should now reset them to whatever you want.\n \n The one setting that zapping the PRAM does not erase is the \n date and time; but since the internal clock in the Macintosh is\n notoriously inaccurate you'll probably want to take this\n opportunity to reset it anyway.\n\n\n RESIZE THE SYSTEM HEAP (4.5) \n\n Even after rethinking their extensions as per step two most\n people still have at least half a row of icons march across the\n bottom of their screen every time they restart. All these\n extensions (and most applications too) need space in a section of\n memory called the System Heap. If the System Heap isn't big enough\n to comfortably accommodate all the programs that want a piece of\n it, they all start playing King of the Mountain on the system heap,\n knocking each other off to get bigger pieces for themselves and\n trying to climb back on after they get knocked off. All this\n fighting amongst the programs severely degrades system performance\n and almost inevitably crashes the Mac.\n \n If you're using System 7, your Macintosh will automatically\n resize the system heap as necessary; but if you're running System 6\n it's important to set your system heap size large enough to manage\n all your extensions and applications. By default this size is set\n to 128K, way too small for most Macs with any extensions at all. \n The system heap size is stored in the normally non-editable boot\n blocks of every system disk. Bill Steinberg's freeware utility\n BootMan not only lets you resize your system heap but even checks\n how much memory your heap is already using so it can tell how much\n needs to be allocated. If you're running System 6, get BootMan,\n use it, and be amazed at how infrequently your Macintosh crashes.\n\n\n REINSTALL THE SYSTEM SOFTWARE (4.6)\n\n System files can become corrupt and fragmented, especially if\n you've stored lots of fonts and desk accessories inside them. \n Merely updating the System software will often not fix system file\n corruption. I recommend doing a clean reinstall. Here's how:\n\n 1. Boot from the installer floppy of your System disks. \n 2. Copy any non-standard fonts and desk accessories out \n of your System file into a temporary suitcase.\n 3. Trash the System file on your hard disk. Also trash the \n Finder, MultiFinder, DA Handler, and all other standard Apple \n extensions like Control Panel and Chooser. These will all be \n replaced in the new installation. If you're running or \n installing System 7, move everything in the Extensions, \n Control Panels, and Preferences folders into the top level \n of the System Folder.\n 4. Rename the System Folder. Any name other than System Folder \n is fine.\n 5. Double-click the installer script on your System disk. Then \n choose Customize... Select the appropriate software for your \n model Mac and printer. You could do an Easy Install instead, \n but that will only add a lot of extensions and code you don't \n need that waste your memory and disk space.\n 6. Once installation is finished, move everything from the \n temporary folder you created in step 4 into the new System \n folder. If you're asked if you want to replace anything, you \n forgot to take something out in step 3. You'll need to replace \n things individually until you find the duplicate piece. \n 7. Reinstall any fonts or DA's you removed in step 2.\n 8. Reboot. You should now have a clean, defragmented System file \n that takes up less memory and disk space and a much more stable \n system overall.\n\n\n DISK UTILITIES (4.7)\n\n Much like system files hard disks have data structures that\n occasionally become corrupted affecting performance and even\n causing data loss. Apple includes Disk First Aid, a simple utility\n for detecting and repairing hard disk problems, with its System\n disks. It's also available for anonymous ftp from ftp.apple.com in\n the directory dts/mac/sys.soft/hdsc. Even if you have an earlier \n version, you should get the latest version (7.1) from ftp.apple.com\n and run it on all your hard disks.\n \n Several companies have released payware disk utilities that\n detect and repair considerably more problems than Disk First Aid\n though, interestingly, none of them detect and repair everything\n that Disk First Aid does. The three most effective for general\n work are Central Point's MacTools Deluxe 2.0, Fifth Generation's\n Public Utilites, and Symantec's Norton Utilities for the Macintosh\n 2.0. A department or work group should have all of these as well\n as Disk First Aid since none of them fix everything the others do. \n For individuals MacTools ($48 street) is about half the price of\n Norton ($94 street) or Public Utilities ($98 street) so, features\n and ease of use being roughly equal, I recommend MacTools.\n \n All of these products occasionally encounter problems they\n can't fix. When that happens it's time to backup (4.7) and\n reformat (4.9).\n\n\n BACKING UP (4.8)\n\n This is one part of preventative maintenance that should be\n done a LOT more often than every three months. The simplest back\n up is to merely copy all the files on your hard disk onto floppies\n or other removable media. If you keep your data files separate\n from your application and support files then it's easy to only back\n up those folders which change frequently. Nonetheless every three\n months you should do a complete backup of your hard disk. \n \n A number of programs are available to make backing up\n easier. Apple included a very basic full backup application with\n System 6. With the Performas Apple ships a new Apple Backup\n utility that can backup the entire disk or just the System folder\n onto floppies. The previously mentioned Norton Utilities for the\n Mac and MacTools Deluxe 2.0 include more powerful floppy backup\n utilities that incorporate compression and incremental backups.\n \n Finally if you're lucky enough to have a Tape Drive, network\n server, or removable media device to use for backups, you should\n check out the more powerful payware utilities Redux ($49 street,\n doesn't support tape drives) and Diskfit Pro ($74 street). There\n are NO freely available backup utilities other than the old HD\n Backup from System 6. \n\n\n DISK DEFRAGMENTATION (4.9)\n\n As disks fill up it gets harder and harder to find enough free\n space in the same place to write large files. Therefore the\n operating system will often split larger files into pieces to be\n stored in different places on your hard disk. As files become more\n and more fragmented performance can degrade. There are several\n ways to defragment a hard disk.\n \n The most tedious but cheapest method is to backup all your\n files, erase the hard disk (and you might as well reformat while\n you're at it. See question 4.10.), and restore all the files.\n \n A number of payware utilities including Norton Utilities for\n the Mac and Mac Tools Deluxe can defragment a disk in place, i.e.\n without erasing it. Although the ads for all these products brag\n about their safety, once you've bought the software and opened the\n shrink-wrap they all warn you to back up your disk before\n defragmenting it in case something does go wrong. There are NO\n freeware or shareware disk defragmenters so please don't annoy the\n net by asking for one. \n\n\n REFORMAT YOUR HARD DISK (4.10)\n\n Just as a floppy disk needs to be initialized before use, so a\n hard disk must be formatted before it can hold data. You don't\n need to reformat every three months; but when your system is\n crashing no matter what you try, reformatting is the ultimate means\n of wiping the slate clean. Reformatting your hard disk may even\n gain you a few extra megabytes of space. Not all hard disks are\n created equal. Some can hold more data than others. To facilitate\n mass production and advertising without a lot of asterisks (* 81.3\n megabytes is the average formatted capacity. Your mileage may\n vary.) Apple often formats drives to the lowest common denominator\n of drive capacity. When you reformat there's no reason at all not\n to reclaim whatever unused space Apple's left on your disk.\n \n Unlike floppies hard disks need a special program to\n initialize them. Most hard disks come with formatting software. \n Apple's disks and System software ship with HD SC setup, a minimal\n disk formatter which will format Apple brand hard drives ONLY. \n Most other manufacturers ship appropriate formatting software with\n their hard drives. Normally this will be all you need to reformat\n your hard disk.\n \n A number of general-purpose formatters are also available\n which go beyond the bundled software to include features like\n encryption, password protection, multiple partitioning, faster disk\n access, System 7 compatibility, and even compression. Two of the\n best are the payware Drive7 and Hard Disk Toolkit Personal Edition\n ($49 street for either). While there are one or two freeware\n formatters available, none are likely to be superior to the ones\n bundled with your hard disk. \n \n PowerBook users should be sure to turn off Sleep and\n processor cycling before reformatting their hard drives no matter\n what software they use. Otherwise disk corruption, crashes, and\n data losses are a very good possibility.\n \n", "\nIts my understanding that bus mice are more accurate and \"stable\" in\ngeneral than serial mice. If I remember correctly, its because\nof the differences in how the interrupts are handled, as well as\nthe fact that the mouse data is received over the computer bus\nas opposed to a (9600 bps?) serial connection.\n", "Hi Folks.\n\nAs part of my self-introduction to X I've been trying to do some simple\nicon animation (sort of like icondoit from mswindows). Changing your\nown applications icon is fairly simple: If you have a widget ID you can\njust XtSetValues on XtNiconifyPixmap (or whatever) and you're done. Alternately\nyou can set window manager hints. These methods don't seem to work with\nicons which your application doesn't specifically own.\n\nIn my situation I have to change the icon of random windows sitting there in \nmy icon box so my question is: Given a window-id, how do you change the\nicon pixure ? A working example would be very much appreciated. If it makes\nany difference, I'm using motif 1.1 on VMS T6.0-5KE.", "Tippman 68 Special Semi-Auto Rifle\n120 round feeder\n18 inch barrel - composite\n14 inch barrel - composite\n6 inch barrel - composite\n20oz CO2 tank \nsilencer\n1200 rounds of paint\nplus whatever else I have in the box.\n\n\nall this for $375 or best offer\n\n\n ", "We are using pkzip V2.04 and I am interested to hear from\npeople who have used one of the many Windows programs that\ncall these.\n\nWhich ones are available and does any one stand out amongst\nthe rest?\n\nIs there a full windows version that does not call the DOS \nPKZIP/PKUNZIP commands?", "I have the following item for sale:\n\nElectronic Typewriter: Panasonic KT-32, with 22K memory, small LCD display. I'm\n\tselling it bundled with a Panasonic computer interface (RPK105) for this\n\ttypewriter. You can connect it to any PC parallel port (sorry, no\n\tcable). It works perfect, even in Windows (TTY printer). It's\n\tgreat if you need to send letter with \"typewriter look\". In\n\tstand-alone mode it has 3 pitches, and several \"effects\" like\n\tunderline, bold, overstrike. Built-in dictionary and character/word/\n\tline correction. Asking $150 for both the typewriter and the\n\tinterface\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nJorge Lach\t\t\tSun Microsystems Computer Corporation\nJorge.Lach@East.Sun.Com\t\tEast Coast Division, Chelmsford, MA", "\nyou can say that again.\nhow does $23 for a new thermostat sound?", "FOR SALE:\n\n 486 DX/33 Motherboard for sale. Excellent condition...less than\n\n one year old. 64K cache, expandable to 256K. RAM expandable to 32MB.\n\n AMI BIOS. Need to sell...upgrading. \n\n Asking: $600.00 (neg.)\n\n CONTACT: Jared Martin at 49-54566 or ", "I have some color gifs which I would like to archive in a much smaller\nsize using a grayscale palette of 16 shades. The quantization to 16 grays\nintroduces some ugly bands in the pictures, which can be nicely eliminated\nby dithering. Up to now I have used XV to process the images, but now I\nwould like to automate the procedure.\n\nThe problem is that XV can't (I think) convert images automatically, and the\nobvious alternative PNMPLUS (PPMQUANT and PNMDITHER) don't even get close to\nXV's quality. PNMDITHER apparently dithers in RGB, even though the images\nare in grayscale. The dithering routine in XV seems to use the natural image\ncolors for the dither. Is this or any similar routine available in the\npublic domain? If so, where? ", "\n\tThis sounds like a VERY good thing to do.\n\n\n\tI will now, whenever I don't have my handy-dandy automatic coin\nfetcher/toll payer (Annette :-) with me.\n\n\tThanks for the tip.\n\nLater,", "Technically there is no reason why a chip set cannot support a 486DX50 and\na 25MHz local bus.\n\nI'm waiting for the mezzianine (sp?) VL bus that will be decoupled from\nthe main CPU clock and allow for many more slots due to the user of buffers.\n\nThis will allow the use of ever faster CPUs with the same standard I/O\ncards. Until the next buss spec...\n\n\n\nGuy", "\nMacsee.zip on ftp.cica.indiana.edu is supposed to read and write Mac disks. \nI've never tried it, though. Good luck", "Since this posting, I've received no replies or followups, so I'm posting\nhere hoping for the feedback I didn't get in rec.audio.car:\n\narticle number - 9855\nNewsgroups: rec.audio.car\nPath: cbfsb!cbnewsb.cb.att.com!vinlai\nFrom: vinlai@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (vincent.lai)\nSubject: Third party car antennas ...\nMessage-ID: <1993Apr13.202333.28657@cbfsb.cb.att.com>\nSender: news@cbfsb.cb.att.com\nOrganization: AT&T\nDistribution: na\nDate: Tue, 13 Apr 1993 20:23:33 GMT\n\nI recently saw a particular third party antenna on a new Camry (not mine,\nbut it caught my interest) and a new 626. It seems to replace the\nfactory power antenna and is about a foot long made of plastic tubing. I\nhave seen them on quite a few cars, but I can't find anything more about\nthem in previous r.a.c articles nor in r.a articles.\n\nI'd like to know all I can, so any feedback is greatly appreciated.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------\n\"Mom, we're hungry!\" - Bud Bundy \"Why tell me?\" - Peg Bundy\n\nVincent Lai\n\nvinlai@cbnewsb.att.com forwards mail to\nvlai@attmail.com which eventually winds up in\nwcmnja!lai@somerset.att.com", "Configuration of IDE Harddisks\n\t\t ==============================\n\n\nlast update:\t14.4.1993\n\ncollected by Carsten Grammes (ph12hucg@rz.uni-sb.de)\nand published regularly on comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.\n\n\n!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!\nThere is explicitly NO WARRANTY\nthat the given settings are correct or harmless. (I only collect, I do\nnot check for myself!!!). There is always the possibility that the\nsettings may destroy your hardware!\n!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!\n\n\nSince I hope however that only well-minded people undergo the effort of\nposting their settings the chance of applicability exists. If you should\nagree or disagree with some setting, let me know immediately in order\nto update the list.\n\nIf you possess a HD not mentioned here of which you know BIOS and/or\njumper settings, please mail them to me for the next update of the list!\n\nOnly IDE (AT-Bus) Harddisks will be accounted for.\nIf not specified the Landing Zone should be set equal to the number of\ncylinders. If not specified the 'Write Precompensation' should be set\n65535. (There are BIOSes that don't even ask for it).\n\nAnother statement (maybe right):\nIDE harddisk don't have Precomp and LZone. The precomp is a built-in parameter\nand lzone isn't used because most if not every IDE disk has autopark.\n\nThe jumpers' names are given as printed on the HD's board, often only a\njumper number (JP12 means the jumper '12'). A zero means that the jumper\nis left open, a one means that the jumper is closed.\n\n\n\n*************************** C O N N E R ***************************\n\n\n\t\tConner Peripherals Drive Geometry\n\nIDE/AT\n\nConner drives are low level formatted at the factory. It is only necessary\nto run SETUP, FDISK, and DOS FORMAT.\n\nModel Heads Cylinders Sectors PComp L-Zone Type Table LED\n\nCP2034 2 823 38 0 823 *UT 3 N/A\nCP2064 4 823 38 0 823 *UT 3 N/A\nCP2084 8 548 38 0 548 *UT 3 N/A\nCP3184 6 832 33 0 832 *UT 1 A\nCP3104 8 776 33 0 776 *UT 1 A\nCP3111 8 833 33 0 833 *UT 1 A(?)\nCP3204 16 683 38 0 683 *UT 2 B\nCP30064 4 762 39 0 762 *UT 2 B\nCP30084 8 526 39 0 526 *UT 2 B\nCP30104 8 762 39 0 762 *UT 2 B\nCP30084E 4 903 46 0 903 *UT 3 C\nCP30174E 8 903 46 0 903 *UT 3 C\nCP30204 16 683 38 0 683 *UT 3 C\nCP3304 16 659 63 0 659 *UT 3 D\nCP3364 16 702 63 0 702 *UT 3 D\nCP3504 16 987 63 0 987 *UT 3 D\nCP3554 16 1054 63 0 1054 *UT 3 B\n\nTable 1 Table 2\n\n Jumper Settings Jumper Settings\n\nSingle Drive = Jumper ACT and C/D Single Drive = Jumper C/D\nMaster Drive = Jumper ACT, C/D and DSP Master Drive = Jumper C/D & DSP\nSlave Drive = No jumpers installed Slave Drive = No jumpers installed\n\n\nTable 3\n All Conner 20 Mbyte drives use\n Jumper Settings Drive type 2. All Conner 40\n Mbyte drives use Drive type 17.\nSingle & Master Drive = Jumper C/D\nSlave Drive = No jumpers installed *UT = Universal translate.\n Select a drive type that is\n close to but does not exceed\n the megabyte capacity of the\n drive. The drive will\n translate to the megabyte\n capacity that you have\n selected.\n\n LED\n\n A: B: C: D:\n J-4 J-5 J-5 J-3\n Pin 1 = + Pin 3 = + Pin 3 = - Pin 3 = +\n Pin 2 = - Pin 4 = - Pin 4 = - Pin 4 = -\n\n\n\n\n\n*************************** F U J I T S U ***************************\n\nDETAILS OF FUJITSU DRIVES M261xT (Standard)\n\n M2614ET M2613ET M2612ET M2611T\n\nHeads (physical) 8 6 4 2\nCyl (physical) 1334 1334 1334 1334\nSec/trk 33 33 33 33\nSpeed (rpm) 3490 3490 3490 3490\nCapacity 180MB 135MB 90MB 45MB\n\n\n +-----------------------------------------------+\n | |\n +--+ |\n PSU | | CNH-2 |\n +--+ 1 |\n 1 | | . LED |\n | | CNH-1 9 CNH-3 Connector |\n | | 1 6..1 o o |\n 40-way | | . | | |\n IDE | | . |\n | | . |\n | | 12 |\n +--+ |\n +-----------------------------------------------+\n\n\n\n Pin Function\n Position\n\n * 1- 2 Active mode\n 2- 3 Slave present mode\n 4- 5 Pin 27=IOCHRDY\nCNH-1 JUMPERS * 5- 6 Pin 27=RESERVED\n 7- 8 2 drive system\n * 8- 9 1 drive system\n 10-11 Pin 29=IRQ14 : Pin 31=RESERVED\n * 11-12 Pin 31=IRQ14 : Pin 29=RESERVED\n\n\n Pin Function\n Position\n\n 1- 2 SLAVE drive mode\nCNH-2 JUMPERS * 4- 5 MASTER drive mode\n 7- 8 ECC 4 bytes\n * 8- 9 ECC 7 bytes\n\n\n Pin Function\n Position\n\n 1- 2 Write protect enabled\nCNH-3 JUMPERS * 2- 3 Write protect disabled\n 4- 5 -6 Reserved\n\nKey: * (I guess!) marks factory default setting for jumper\n\n\nBIOS SETTINGS\n\nBIOS setting for the M2614ET in my system is 667 cylinders, 33 sectors\nand 16 heads.\n\n\n\n\nMODEL CYLINDERS HEADS SECTORS CAPACITY (Million bytes)\n\nM2622T 1013 10 63 326.75\nM2623T 1002 13 63 420.16\nM2624T 995 16 63 513.51\n\n\nThere are 6 switches on the switch block on these drives. Only 4 of \nthem have a use that I am aware of (from my M2624T manual):\n\nMaster/Slave Master (*) SW1-5 OFF\n Slave SW1-5 ON\nECC bytes 4 bytes (*) SW1-4 OFF\n 7 bytes SW1-4 ON\nWrite Protect Disabled (*) SW1-3 OFF\n Enabled SW1-3 ON\nIO Channel Ready Disabled (*) SW1-1 OFF\n Enabled SW1-1 ON\n\nI have no idea about the function of SW1-2 and SW1-6. The values \nlisted with a (*) are the factory default settings.\n\n\n*************************** K A L O K ***************************\n\nKALOK\tKL3100\t 105 MB\nBIOS:\tcyl 979 heads 6\tsectors 35\n\nKALOK KL3120 120 MB\nBIOS:\t Cyl 981 heads 6 sectors 40\n\nThe following jumper settings have been reported for KL3100 but are probably\nalso valid for other Kalok drives.\n\nSingle HD:\no o o o o\n\no o o o-o <-- same row as pin 1 of the IDE connector.\n\nMaster (disk 1):\no o o o o\n |\no o o o o\n\nSlave:\no o o o o\n |\no o o o o\n\nThese 5 pairs of pins are at the righthand side of the disk.\n\n\n\n*************************** M A X T O R ***************************\n\nModel Cyls Heads Sectors Precomp Landing Zone\n----------\t-----\t-----\t-------\t-------\t------------\nLXT-200A\t816\t15\t32\t0\t816\nLXT-213A\t683\t16\t38\t0\t683\nLXT-340A\t654\t16\t63\t0\t654\nLXT437A\t\t842\t16\t63\t0\t842\nLXT535A\t\t1036\t16\t63\t0\t1024\n\nJumpers are as follows:\n\nThe bottom of the drive looks like this (well, sort of):\n\n+[POWER] [IDE CONNECTOR]-----+\n\n\t\t\t\tSingle drive\t Dual Drive System\nPin numbers\tJumper\t\tSystem\t\tMaster\t\tSlave\n-----------\t------\t\t------------\t------\t\t-----\n1-2\t\tSlave Drive\tremove\t\tremove\t\tinstall\n3-4\t\tActivity LED\toptional\toptional\toptional\n5-6\t\tSlave Present\tremove\t\tremove\t\toptional\n7-8\t\tMaster Drive\tremove\t\tinstall\t\tremove\n9-10\t\tSync Spindle\tremove (n/a)\toptional*\tremove\n\n* only one drive (the master) in an array should have this jumper installed.\n\n\n\nMaxtor 7060A 16 467 17 62,0 J14 closed, J13 closed\nMaxtor 7060A 7 1024 17 59,5 J14 open, J13 open\nMaxtor 7060A 4 762 39 58,0 J14 closed, J13 open\nMaxtor 7060A 8 925 17 57,9 J14 open, J13 closed\n\nMaxtor 7120A 16 936 17 124,3 J14 closed, J13 closed\nMaxtor 7120A 14 1024 17 119,0 j14 open, J13 open\nMaxtor 7120A 8 762 39 116,0 J14 closed, J13 open\nMaxtor 7120A 15 900 17 112,0 J14 open, J13 closed\nMaxtor 7120A 8 824 33 106,2 J14\n\nJumpers for the above 2 drives:\n\n J11 I/O-channel ready ( open: disabled; close: enabled )\n J13 see above\n J14 see above\n J15 operation-status ( open: normal; close: factory )\n J J J J J \n 2 1 1 1 1\n 0 9 8 7 6\n\nPower data-cable\n\nJ16: Idle mode latch ( open: disabled; close: enabled )\nJ17: drive model ( open: 7060A; close 7120A )\nJ18: ECC Bytes ( open: 7 bytes; close: 4 bytes )\n\nMaster/Slave: drive is master and alone : J20 closed, J19 closed\n drive is master of two drives: J20 closed, J19 open\n drive is slave of two drives : J20 open , J19 closed\n\n\nMaxtor 7213A\n\nDefault (power-up) AT BIOS Translation Parameters (others possible)\nCyl Hds SpT MBytes\n683 16 38 212\n\nThere are two sets of jumpers. A set of 5 and a set of\n4. With the power and IDE connector toward you, the set of 5 is\nnumbered (left to right) J16 - J20 , and the set of 4 is numbered\n(bottom to top) J22-J25. \n\nThe only jumper of normal interest is J20. Jumper it for only\ndrive in a single drive system, or master drive in a dual drive\nsystem.\n \nRemove the jumper J20 for slave drive in a dual drive system. \n\nJ19 is a dummy and may be used to store the spare shunt if the \ndrive is configured for a slave mode.\n\nJumpers J17, J18, J24, J25 are factory reserved. Abnormal operation\nmay occur if jumpered.\n\nJumper 22 is sync spindle enabled/disabled (open=disabled)\nJumper 23 is sync slave/master (open=slave)\nJumper 16 is I/O Channel Ready (open=disabled)\n\n\nMaxtor 7245A (245Mb IDE; self-parking; Universal Translate):\nDrive type : User defineable\nCyl Hds WPC LZ S/T\n967 16 0 0 31 (WPC and LZ optional)\n\nMaster(2): J20 closed\nSlave(2): J20 open (use J19 for shunt storage)\nSingle: J20 closed\n\n\n********************** M I C R O P O L I S ****************************\n\n\nDrive\t\t2105A\t\t2112A\n----------------------------------------\nUnformatted MB\t647\t\t1220\nFormatted MB\t560\t\t1050\nPlatters\t5\t\t8\nHeads\t\t8\t\t15\nCylinders\t1760\t\t1760\n----------------------------------------\n\nPerformance (both):\n\n\tTrack to track (read)\t\t1.5 msec\n\tTrack to track (write)\t\t2.5 msec\n\tAverage\t\t\t\t10 msec\n\tMax\t\t\t\t25 msec\n\tAvg Rotational Latency\t\t5.56 msec\n\tRotational speed\t\t5400 rpm (+/- 5%)\n\tData Transfer Rate\t\tupto 5Mbytes/sec\n\tInternal data rate\t\t24-40 Mbits/sec\n\nBIOS Settings:\n\n2105A\t\t1084 cyl\t16 heads\t63 sectors\n2112A*\tmaster\t1024 cyl\t16 heads\t63 sectors\n\tslave\t1010 cyl\t16 heads\t63 sectors\n\t\t\n* the 2112A emulates both master and slave\n\n\nJumpers (labelled J6 on the drive)\n\n\t----\n\t|oo| W1\\ only these 2 are used\n\t|oo| W2/\n\t|oo|\n\t|oo|\n\t|oo|\n\t----\n\n\tW2\tW1\n\t--\t--\n\tin\tin\t2112A only - drive emulates both master + slave\n\tin\tout\tDrive is master, slave is present\n\tout\tin\tDrive is slave\n\tout\tout\tDrive is master, no slave present (ie single drive)\n\n\n********************** M I C R O S C I E N C E ****************************\n\nMicroScience \n\nModel: 7100-00\nHeads: 7\nCylinders: 855\nS/T: 35 (?)\nSize: 105M\n\n\nModel # 8040-00.\nSize 40M 5hd/17sec/977cyl\n\n********************** M I N I S C R I B E ****************************\n\nMiniscribe\n\nMODEL AT CAP CYC H RWC WPC ENC RATE ACCESS SPT COMMENTS \n8225AT 3.5\" 21 745 2 - - 8 28 MS 28\n8051AT 3.5\" 42 745 4 - - 8 28 MS 28\n8450AT 3.5\" 42 745 4 - - 8 40 MS 28\n\nMaster(2): 5-6\nSlave(2): 1-2\nSingle: 1-3 (shunt storage)\n\n\n*************************** N E C *********************************\n\nNEC D3735, 40 MB\nBIOS:\tCyl 537 Head 4\tsect 41\n\nNEC\tD3755,\t105 MB\nBIOS:\tCyl 625 Head 8\tsect 41\n\nNEC\tD3741,\t44 MB\nBIOS:\tCyl 423\t Head 8\tsect 26\t\tWPcom 0\t\tLZone 424\n \n\nJumper\tJP12\tJP13\t (for all above NEC drives)\nSingle 0 0\nMaster\t1\t0\nSlave 1 1\n\nThere have been reported difficulties in using WD Caviar as Master and\nNEC drives as slave - the other way it works.\n\n\n\n*************************** Q U A N T U M *************************\n\nLogical Specs for Quantum AT Drives\nCOMPLIMENTS OF COMPUTER BROKERS OF CANADA\n\n\nModel Cap Avg Acc\tCylinders Heads Sectors/Track\n (MB) (ms)\n\n40AT 42 19 965 5 17\n80AT 84 19 965 10 17\n120AT 120 15 814 9 32\n170AT 168 15 968 10 34\n210AT 209 15 873 13 36\n425AT 426 14 1021 16 51\nLPS 52AT 52 17 751 8 17\nLPS 80AT 83 17 611 16 17\nLPS 105AT 105 17 755 16 17\nLPS 120AT 122 16 901 5 53\nLPS 240AT 245 16 723 13 51\n\n=================================================\nLegend: 1=Jumper Installed 0=No Jumper\n=================================================\n\n40 & 80 AT Jumpers\n\nDS SS Meaning\n1 0 Single drive configuration\n1 1 Master of dual drive\n0 0 Slave of dual drive\n0 1 Self-Seek Test\n\n=======================================================\n\n120, 170, 210 & 425 AT Jumpers\n\nDS SP SS Meaning\n0 0 0 Slave when the Master is Quantum PRODRIVE other than 40/80A\n0 0 1 Slave in PRODRIVE 40/80A mode\n0 1 0 Slave when Master is non Quantum Drive\n0 1 1 Not Used\n1 0 1 Master drive PDIAG mode checking DASP for slave\n1 1 0 Master in PDIAG mode using SP to check if slave present\n1 1 1 Master in 40/80A mode using SP to check if slave present\n1 0 0 Single drive\n\n=======================================================\n\nLPS 52, 80, 105, 120 & 240 AT Jumpers\nDS SP DM* Meaning\n0 0 0 Slave in standard PDIAG mode for compatibility with drives that use\n PDIAG-line to handle Master/Slave communications\n0 0 1 Slave in PRODRIVE 40/80A mode compat. without using PDIAG line\n0 1 0 Self Test\n0 1 1 Self Test\n1 0 0 Master in PDIAG mode using DASP to check for Slave\n1 0 1 Master in 40/80A Mode using DASP to check for Slave\n1 1 0 Master in PDIAG mode using SP to check for Slave without\n checking DASP\n1 1 1 Master in 40/80A mode using SP to check for Slave without\n checking DASP\n\n\n======================================================================\n* While my Spec form marked the jumper name DM, it is labeled as CS on\n my LPS 240AT drive.\n\n\n\nThe QUANTUM ELS series:\n\nModel Cap Avg Acc Cylinders Heads Sectors/Track\n (MB) (ms)\n \nELS42AT 42 - 968 5 17\nELS85AT 85 - 977 10 17\nELS127AT 127 - 919 16 17\nELS170AT 170 - 1011 15 22\n\nWrite precomp = 0 for all Quantum drives ( probably no significance)\nLanding Zone = Cylinders\n\nStraps: If an ELS drive is \n\tmaster only, use DS\n\tmaster with slave, DS or, DS and SP in some cases\n\tslave, no strap\n\n\n*************************** R O D I M E *********************************\n\nInformation for RO 3008A and RO 3009A series hard disk drives:\n\nDrive Types\n\n Model\tCyls\tHds\tSectors/Trk\t No. blocks\tFormatted Cap.\n -------\t----\t---\t-----------\t ----------\t--------------\n RO3058A\t868\t 3\t 34\t\t 88,536\t 45.33 MByets\n RO3088A\t868\t 5\t 34\t\t 147,560\t 75.55 MByets\n RO3095A\t923\t 5\t 34\t\t 156,910\t 80.33 MByets\n RO3128A\t868\t 7\t 34\t\t 206,584\t105.77 MByets\n RO3135A\t923\t 7\t 34\t\t 219,674\t112.47 MByets\n \n RO3059A\t217\t15\t 28\t\t 91,158\t 46.67 MByets\n RO3089A\t325\t15\t 28\t\t 136,737\t 70.00 MByets\n RO3129A\t492\t15\t 28\t\t 206,645\t105.80 MByets\n RO3139A\t523\t15\t 28\t\t 219,735\t112.50 MByets\n RO3209A\t759\t15\t 28\t\t 319,053\t163.35 MByets\n RO3259A\t976\t15\t 28\t\t 410,211\t210.02 MByets\n\n\nLink Options\n\n In order to install the Rodime Ro 3000A series drives the dumpers for \nthe single/dual drive and LED operation on the drive need to be set as \ndescribed in the relevant product specification.\n I a single drive environment the drive is described as a Master.\n In a dual drive environment the drives are described as a Master and a\nSlave. This is due to the protocal the takes place between the two drives \nwhen performing diagnostics.\n There are four links, LK1, LK2, LK4 and LK5, adjacent to the 40 way \ninterface connector. They have the following functions and are described \nin order as viewed from the end of the drive, with the first jumper \ndescribed nearest the 40 way interface connector.\n\nLK2: LED \n When fitted, this jumper connects the LED drive to pin 39 of the\n interface. This allows a LED to be connected to the interface. An\n external current limiting resistor needs to be fitted in series with\n the LED when this option is selected. The value of the resistor will\n be dependant on the LED type chosen but will be in the range of 130\n Ohms ot 220 Ohms.\n\nLK1: Dual Drives\n This jumper must be fitted when two drives are attached to a single\n bus. It fallows communication across the 40 way interface connector,\n indicating, to the Master drive, the presence of a Slave.\n\nLK4: Master\n When fitted this signifies that the drive jumpered is a Master. If\n there are two drives connected on a single bus then only one may be\n jumpered in this way.\n\nLK5: IOChRdy\n When fitted this connects the IOChRdy signal to the drive, it is \n fitted when the drive is used in host systems that have a higher\n data transfer rate than the drive i.e. greater than 4 MBytes per\n second when using 1:1 interleave. This jumper is not normally \n fitted as most hosts transfer at a lower rate than 4 MBytes per\n second.\n\n There are four possible Master/Slave configurations in which a drive(s)\nmay be jumpered:\n\n Master, single drive with LED on interface\t\tLK2 & LK4 fitted.\n Master, single drive without LED on interface\tLK4 only fitted.\n Master, dual drive without LED on interface\tLK4 & LK1 fitted.\n Slave, dual drive without LED on interface\t\tNo jumpers fitted.\n Master, dual drive with LED on interface\t\tLK4, LK1 & LK2 fitted.\n Slave, dual drive with LED on interface\t\tLK2 only fitted.\n\n The Master drive will delay power-up for approximately two seconds to\nreduce power surges in applications where dual drives are used.\n\n The other connections for a LED will be found close to the 28 way \nconnector at the other end of the drive. This LED driver is not affected\nby the link options. An internal current limiting resistor is on the \ndrive for this LED driver. Refer to the product specification for further\ndetails.\n\n\n\n\n*************************** S E A G A T E *************************\n\nThere is a list of most Seagate HD (including MFM, SCSI, ESDIand IDE) on\nevery Simtel mirror under\n\n/msdos/dskutl/1seagate.zip\n\nIt contains info about the following drives:\n\n\t st1144a\tst138a\t st274a\tst3283a\nst1057a st1156a\tst1400a st280a\tst351ax\nst1090a st1162a\tst1401a st3051a\tst9051a\nst1102a st1186a\tst1480a st3096a\tst9077a\nst1111a st1201a\tst157a\t st3120a\tst9096a\nst1126a st1239a\tst2274a st3144a\tst9144a\nst1133a st125a\tst2383a st325ax\n\n\n*********************\tT E A C **************\n\nModel: SD-3105\n\n Cyls. Heads Sect/T PreCmp LZone Capacity\n ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ---------\nPhysical 1282 4 40 - - 105021440\nBIOS (AMI) 641 8 40 0 0 105021440 (100.2M)\n (Award) 926 13 17 0 0 104778752 (99.9M)\n (Phoenix) 776 8 33 0 0 104890368 (100.0M)\n\nConnectors and Jumpers:\n\n +----+ 1 Jumper Function\n |....| +---+ +-------/ /---+ 2 0 0 ON: -ACT selected (ext.LED)\n | | |...| |::::::/ /::::| :::: OFF: -SLV PRESENT selected\n +----+ +---+ +-----/ /-----+ 3 1 1 ON: Two HDD's\n J2 J7 40 J1 ---- OFF: Single HDD\n Power (Power) Signal Jumpers 2 ON: Master (/Single)\n OFF: Slave (with 2 units used)\n 3 ON: -I/O CH RDY not output\n OFF: -I/O CH RDY is output\nMaster Slave Settings:\n\nJumper no.: 1 2\n-----------------------\nSingle....: 0 1 1, ON = jumpered\nMaster....: 1 1 0, OFF = not jumpered\nSlave.....: 1 0\n\n\n\n*********************\tW E S T E R N\t D I G I T A L\t **************\n\nCaviar series:\n\nName Size (Mb) Cylinders Heads Sectors\n----------------------------------------------------\nWDAC140 40.7 980 5 17\nWDAC280 81.3 980 10 17\nWDAC2120 119.0 1024 14 17\nWDAC2170 162.7 1010 6 55\nWDAC2200 202.8 989 12 35\nWDAC2340 325.4 1010 12 55\n\nPlease note that these are the *recommended* CMOS parameters. All the disks \nsupport so-called dynamic translation, and should thus be able to work with\nany parameters having fewer sectors than the total number of sectors on\nthe disk.\n\nNow, according to the manual, the jumper settings are as follows:\n\nJumper CP MA SL\n-------------------------------------------------\nSingle 0 0 0\nMaster 0 1 0\nSlave 0 0 1\nSlave with Conner CP342 or CP3022 1 0 1 \n\n\nMaybe there are 2 kinds of Caviar's floating around: \n\nIf your jumpers read MA SL and SI then use:\nJumper\tSI\tMA\tSL\nSingle\t1\t0\t0\nMaster\t0\t1\t0\nSlave\t0\t0\t1\n\nThere have been reported difficulties in using WD Caviar as Master and\nNEC drives as slave - the other way it works.\n\n\nWD93044-A (40 MB)\nBIOS-Settings \n977 cyln, 5 heads, 17 sect, LZone: 977 ( wenn sie sie braucht )\n\n+-------+ +---+---+---+ 1: drive is master\n+-------+ +---+---+---+ 3: second drive is a conner-drive\n\nNo jumper set: this is the only drive.\n\n\n\n******************** Useful telephone numbers... ********************\n\nMiniscribe: \n 303-651-6000\n\nMaxtor:\n Info/tech support: 800-262-9867\n FAX-back: 303-678-2618\n BBS: 303-678-2222\n They list their 800 number as 1(800)2-MAXTOR.\n\nQuantum:\n 408-894-4000\n 408-944-0410 (Support)\n 408-894-3218 (FAX)\n 408-894-3214 (BBS)\n\nSeagate:\n Info/tech support: 408-438-8222\n FAX-back: 408-438-2620\n BBS: 408-438-8771\n\n\n******************* last but not least *****************\n\nIf I could help you with my little collection and if you live in a\npart of the world far away from me, how about a postcard for my pinboard?\nI will surely answer!", "\n\tThere is a free program called 'xkernel' which does just that.\nIt is by Seth Robertson (seth@ctr.columbia.edu). It takes a sun 3 and\nboots a limited kernel which allows you to run X. We converted 4\nmachines over this semester and the speedup is enormously appreciable\n-- I find them faster than an NCD 15inch black&white XTerminal that we\nare playing with, and a bigger screen to boot! As a matter of fact,\nthe department just bought some old sun3s at an auction to convert!\n\n} Xkernel is available for anonymous ftp from ftp.ctr.columbia.edu\n} [128.59.64.40] in /Xkernel/Xkernel.shar (/Xkernel is a symlink to the\n} latest version of Xkernel)\n\n\tNote that the compiled version which is available is for the\nsun 3/50, but compiling to work for a sun 3/1xx should be quite easy.\n\n\tI am not connected with xkernel except as a satisfied\ninstaller and user 8). I may be able to answer questions; feel free\nto email me.", "I have a 486DX33 ISA system with 4 meg. I am using a Diamond Speedstar HiColor\nvideo card with 1 meg VRAM and a standard CTX 14-in SVGA monitor. When I am\nrunning Windows, and I have overlapping windows (say an application overlapping\nthe program manager window), and I close the active application, window erasure\nis very slow. The part of the window that is not overlapping is erased first,\nvery slowly. This also happens when I iconify an application.\n\nThe HiColor card is advertised as a faster-than-standard video card, but it\ndoes not have an accelerator chip on it. I am running at 800x600x32k. Is this\nslow speed simply to be expected without an accelerator chip, or is there\nsomething else that is bottlenecking the system that I am unaware of?\n\nThanks.", "Nikon L35 Af camera. 35/2.8 lens and camera case. Package $50", "\n\nIDE also uses DMA techniques. I believe floppy controller also uses DMA,\nand most A/D boards also use DMA. DMA is no big deal, and has nothing to\ndo directly with SCSI.\n\n\nYou can thank your software for that. If DOS had a few more brains, it\ncould format floppies etc. while you were doing something else. The\nhardware will support it, but DOS (at least) won't. Again, this has \nnothing to do with SCSI.\n\n\nAnd if you stick with DOS you'll wonder why you can't multitask.", "Does anyone know if any of Currier and Ives etchings have been digitized for \nuse in desktop publishing? I am particularly interested in their riverboat\nscenes. Does anyone know who can get me (for a fee) a good, digitized river-\nboat image?\n\nThank you,\n\nDavid Dumas\n--\nDavid Dumas\ndmd2@Isis.MsState.Edu\n", ": Has anyone else experienced anything like this? If this just means that I\n: need to replace the screen then I guess I'll have to but I thought that the\n: \"death\" of my LCD screen would be a little less dramatic when it eventually\n: happened. I didn't want to take it in to be repaired before I asked on the\n: net about this because I already know what they'll say: \"Yep, you gotta have\n: this replaced and it's gonna cost you $???.\"\n\n: I've only had the computer for about 21 months.\n\n\"Only\"?!? That's a long time! (echoing above posting) The way the market\nis going nowadays, your machine's obsolete two weeks before you buy it. \nSounds like you'll have to sink *some* money into it for repair, but\nthat's sometimes necessary for equipment.\n\n: Is that a reasonable life\n: cycle for a LCD display?\n\nI think 21 months with nothing wrong until now is quite reasonable. If\nyou had bought a Compaq or Toshiba, you might have reasonably expected the\nmachine to last longer before something went wrong; but that's a moot\npoint, perhaps.\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\nsandy santra _\\/_ trevor@netcom.com\nberkeley, california /\\ trevor@well.sf.ca.us", "In bunt0003@student.tc.umn.edu (Monthian\n\n\nPerhaps the reason is simple--maybe the marketing people who put together\nthe brochures and price lists weren't clear on the FPU issue. \n\nAfterall, Apple's literature is not always 100% correct. A funny one I\nnoticed recently is that some of the brochures on the Macs with CD\ncapability refer to the \"auto inkjet\" feature. This should have read \"auto\ninject\" feature (as it does on some other correct brochures I've seen from\nApple). Since it was correct on some older brochures, I can only guess\nthat someone edited the copy, saw \"inject\" and thought it was a typo and\nchanged it to the more familiar word \"inkjet\".", "I have a few just bought a new phone/answering machine combo so I really\ndon't need my present setup. Both items are in great condition. Prices\nDO NOT include shipping. If you have any questions contact me by E-Mail\nor call me at (814)234-4439.\n\nDarryl\n\n========================================================================\nToshiba FT6000 Cordless Phone $40\n - Rubber antenna, 10 number memory", ": >What tube does the Viewsonic 17 use? Does is support 1600x1280? I've been\n: >looking a a Philips 1762DT which uses a Sony Trinitron tube, has digital\n: >controls, supports up to 1280x1024NI, and has .25mm dot pitch - It can be\n: >found for under $1000.\n\n: The original poster, John Navitsky, said that he might use the monitor on\n: a SparcStation LX. The LX is able to generate a picture at 1280*1024 at\n: 76 Hz. Not officially, but I tried to set this resolution and refresh rate\n: and the LX came up with a non-syncing screen. Our tube obviously couldn't\n: handle this speed. At 67 Hz, it worked perfectly.\n\nI don't know which tube the Viewsonic 17 uses, but it has an 82khz horizontal\nbandwidth so you can go pretty high. I ran mine at 1280x1024x75 which was as\nfast as the Orchid P9000 could drive it. Also, the 17 does claim to be able\nto support 1600x1280, but I have no experience with that.\n\nSince I have the spec sheet in front of me I'll type some in:\n\nCRT:\t17\", 0.28 mm dot pitch, 90 deg deflection, RGB mediou short\n\tpersisance, Tint (TM=52%), anti-static, anti-glare, anti-reflection\n\nInput Signal: RGB Analog 0.7Vp-p, 75 ohms (also has setting for 1Vp-p)\n\tSync: H/V Separate(ttl), composite (+/-), sync on green (+/-)\n\thorizontal freq: 30-82Khz, vertical freq: 50-90Hz\ncompatibility: PC from VGA to 1600x1280 non-interlaced, mac IIci and above\ncontrols: contrast, brightness, position, size, degauss, p-p voltage, color\n\ttemp, sync select, color tuning, moire on/off.\nvideo band witdth: 135 MHz\nMax brightness: 120 cd/m2 at white flat field\nmisconvergence: .35mm (max) at center, .45mm (max) at corner\ndimensions: 16.3\"x16.22\"x17.64\", weight 42.6 lbs\n\nI don't know what some of those mean and don't verify their accuracy, I just \ntyped them in. Other things they hype on the sheet are a 'double quaduple\ndynamic astigmatism focus'. Right. They mean they use two lenses. Advanced\nInvar shadow mask. ViewMatch color control which they claim is and easy-to-use\nsystem that adjusts colors to closely match printer output. As near as I have\nbeen able to figure out, this translates to separate controls for red, green,\nand blue. How this makes it easy to match for printer output is beyond me.\n\nBut beyond the hype, the monitor is very pleasant to look at. Sharp, clear,\nand isn't nearly as bad as the NEC's for reflections.", "Mark Prado\n \n \nOld pioneer song from the 1850's or so goes as follows:\n \n \"In a cavern, in a canyon,\n Excavating for a mine,\n Dwelt a miner, forty-niner,\n And his daughter, CLEMENTINE\"\n \nChorus:\n \"Oh my darling, Oh my darling,\n Oh my darling Clementine.\n You are lost and gone forever,\n Oh my darling Clementine.\"\n \n I've also had it explained (but not confirmed from a reliable data\nsource) that CLEMENTINE is an acronym. Something like Combined\nLunar Elemental Mapper Experiment on Extended Non Terrestrial\nIntercept Near Earth. Personally, I think that acronym was made up\nto fit the name (if it really is an acronym).\n ------------------------------------------------------------------\n Wales Larrison Space Technology Investor", "Does XFree86 support any EISA video cards under Dell 2.2?", "I am trying to build and use imake (X11R4) on an IBM RS/6000 running AIX V3.2.\nI am having the following 2 problems.\n\n(1) Many of my Imakefile's have contructs like\n\t\t/**/#This is a makefile\n\tat the start of lines to pass Makefile comments thru the C\n\tpreprocessor and into the Makefile. Most of the C preprocessors that\n\tI have used will not treat such a # as appearing at the start of the\n\tline. Thus the C preprocessor does not treat the hash symbol as the\n\tstart of a directive. \n\n\tHowever the IBM cpp strips the comment and treats the hash symbol\n\tas the start of a directive. The cpp fails when it determines\n\tthat \"This\" is not a known directive. I have temporarily hacked my\n\timake to handle this situation but would like to come up with a better\n\tfix.\n\n(2) Several Imakefiles use /**/ as a parameter to a macro when a particular\n\tuse of the macro does not need a value for the parameter. The AIX cpp\n\tgives warnings about these situations but continues to work OK.\n\nIf you are familiar with these problems and have solutions, I would appreciate\ninformation about on your solutions. (Perhaps, this is solved in a later\nversion of imake that I have not reviewed.) Also, do you know of other cpp's\nthat behave similarly?", "I have a like new Hayes JT FAX for sale $125 or offer or trade!", "We are trying to connect an Olivetti XM4311 5\" floppy drive as the second\ndrive on a Panasonic 286 machine. It seems to sort of talk to it (gets it\nspinning and stepping) but gives a \"Disk not ready\" error.\n\nThere are two jumpers (which seem to work best open), a 3 position DIP\nswitch, and a 8 position DIP switch. We don't know how to set the DIP\nswitches and think that may be the problem.\n\nAny information, or advice (other than \"junk the stupid thing\" :) would be\nmost appreciated, thanks. (email reply preferred).", "\nIt's the video card. It's 8514/A compatible, which means it uses the\nsame i/o addresses as com4.\n\n --jh", "Okay, here is my configuration:\n\n80486-33 Gateway 433C Micronics ISA\n12MB RAM \nWD212MB IDE HD ( drive C: )\nST3144A 125MB IDE HD ( drive D: )\nAdaptec SCSI 1542B controller, with SCSI BIOS enabled\nSeagate ST296N 80MB SCSI drive\n\nAlrighty, when I boot up I get the Adaptec BIOS message, but it says\nsomething like:\n\n\"Drive C: installed\"\n\"Drive D: installed\"\n\"ADaptec SCSI BIOS not installed!\"\n\nAnd I can't get to the Seagate drive.\n\nI go into PhoenixBIOS setup, remove the entry for drive D:, and BOOM, I can\naccess the Seagate. Is there a way to get two IDE drives and the Seagate\nat the same time? I have ASPI4DOS.SYS, but it just hangs the system.", "Can anyone tell me what the difference is between a 256K DRAM chip and a\n256K SIMM? I need the former (I think) to add memory to my Laserwriter\nLS. Someone is offering to sell me 256K SIMMS he removed from an SE, but\nI have a feeling this may not be the correct form of memory. The sockets\nin the Laserwriter look like they want the spidery-shaped chips (there\nare 4 sockets, each with, as I recall, 20 pins, arranged in two rows of 10). Believe it or not, I've never actually seen a SIMM. Help appreciated.", "This is a question aimed at those who have done some server code hacking:\n\n\n\nI am attempting to add a working SaveScreen function to a new\nserver. I have been able to get the screen to blank out properly, and through\ndebugging I can see that my savescreen function is being called with on=0,\nwhich (for some arcane reason) means to blank the screen.\n\nMy problem is that this function is never being called again with on=1, even\nafter I have moved the mouse and/or typed some keys. My question is: what am\nI likely to be missing that would cause this problem? I copied the basic\ndesign of my function from the existing versions:\n\nstatic Bool next_savescreen(scr,on)\nScreenPtr scr;\nBool on;\n{\n\n /* this was copied from the omron server code -- is it the right way? */\n if (on != SCREEN_SAVER_ON) {\n\t\tnextSetLastEventTime();\n }\n\n if (on == SCREEN_SAVER_ON) { /* Save user's current setting */\n\t\tnext_save_screen_brightness = NXScreenBrightness(my_eventhandle);\n\t\tNXSetScreenBrightness( my_eventhandle, 0.0); /* Blank the screen */\n }\n else {\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t /* Unblank the screen */\n\t\tNXSetScreenBrightness( my_eventhandle, next_save_screen_brightness);\n }\n\n return TRUE;\n}\n\nI can see in the server/os code where the screensaver is called to turn on the\nsaver, but I cannot find where it \"wakes up\" the server and unblanks the\nscreen.\n\nAny tips/help would be appreciated.\n\nThanks.\n\n", "\nAccording to what others have told me, the ST-296N is difficult to run at\nthe 1:1 interleave even though Seagate claims it. I have a non-pc system\n(don't ask what it is, you probably haven't heard of it) that is built\naround SCSI and it can't do 1:1, either.\n\n Brian\n ( bcwhite@sunee.uwaterloo.ca )\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nX Resource, Issue 6", "\nThe ??-jumper is used, if the other drive a conner cp3xxx. \n\nno jumper set: drive is alone\nMA: drive is master\nSL: drive is slave\n\nMichael", "A very good R&B group came out in 1988 called the Pasadenas. I bought their\ncassette single and fell in love with it. I've tried to find their LP\nor CD but have had no success whatsoever. Just wondering whether anyone\nout in Netland had heard of them....\n\ntheir song that hit the charts was called Tribute...\n\n\nthanks!\n\nJay....", "I've written an application for SparcStation 2 GX+, under OpenWindows 3.0.\n\nThe application uses XView stuff to create my window, and the SUN XGL\ngraphics library for rendering into the Canvas.\n\nThe application does real-time 2-D animation, but it does not update the\nthe display fast enough.\nI'm using notify_set_itimer (XView call) to periodically kick off my\nupdate routine, and it's not happening fast enough. I want it to\nupdate 25 times / second. It's only doing about 11. Also, it appears to\nbe compute bound, because if I run anything else while my appplication is\nup, the update rate slows down even more.", "\nI *think* this is correct behavior. Remember the default\ncolormapFocusPolicy is keyboard (meaning the cmap focus follows the\nkeyboard focus). Since the dialog is modal, mwm won't allow keyboard\nfocus onto your main shell, and so it won't allow cmap focus either.\n\nSince it sounds as though you have keyboardFocusPolicy:pointer, I\nsuggest you set colormapFocusPolicy:pointer also. That way, the cmap\nfocus won't slavishly follow keyboard focus, but will beat its own path.\n\n(if you have keyboardFocusPolicy: explicit, you can set cmap focus\nexplicit also, but you then need a binding to f.focus_color, probably on\nMB1).", "\n[Common complaints about MS Windows deleted...]\n\n\n\tHmmmm, why do I get the feeling that this is gonna start one of\nthose endless threads 'Mac Vs Win\" and might even end up as \"OS/2 Vs Win\".\nWell, I dont know if Windows is a mature OS, if I have seen one (in which\ncase that has to be X-Windows :) ), but dont be so quick to judge... \nFirst of all to try to use plain vanilla Windows is as courageous as to try\nto use plain vanilla DOS. There are _lots_ of very nice commercial and\nshareware packages/utilities that will boost up Windows past what MS itself\nthought possible :)... For example, Norton Desktop for Windows 2.0 (a replace-\nment for ProgMan) will give you group-within-a-group capability and will\neven change group icons, it will launch progs by association (well, FileMan\ndoes that too) or by dragging the file in the apps icon (now Mac doesnt do\nthat, huh? :) )... And the list goes on and on... Now, Windows _is_ kinda\nhard to finetune, boost and configure, but thats trhe price to pay for not\npaying $$$ to get a Mac or an OS/2 capable machine (an entirely differet\nstory ...)... On the other hand if you dont like the idea of PM's icons\nnot correspnding to the files themselves, well they are not supposed to :)..\nPM is a Program _Launching_ utility not a file manager... Modify your \nsettings to have FM as your shell and not PM, or get a couple of utilities\nfrom cica that supposedly give you a 'Mac feel'... I dont wanna get in the\ndiscussion which is a better system: Mac's are good in their own way -- they\nare _different_ not better or worse than Win PCs-- (actually I am writing\nthis from a Mac lab as a user assistant - so dont think I am partial to Win:) )\nBy all means check out the stuff in cica (ftp to ftp.cica.indiana.edu under\nthe pub/pc/win3 subdir user: anonymous), or wait for StarTrek (Mac's OS on\na PC !!! -- the threads we are gonna have then !!! :) )...\nJust trying to avoid another Mac-Win war...\n\n", "No doubt this is an old question, but I didn't find the answer in the\nFAQs I could find, so - here goes:\n\nI have a Sunview application that I want to convert to X (OpenLook,\nMotiv, whatever). I remember hearing quite some time ago that there\nare tools to accomplish this task.\n\n\ta) is that so?\n\tb) are they public domain?\n\tc) any good, i.e.\n\td) advantages over reimplementing the interface myself?\n\nThanks,", ": I just bought a new IDE hard drive for my system to go with the one\n: I already had. My problem is this. My system only had a IDE cable\n: for one drive, so I had to buy cable with two drive connectors\n: on it, and consequently have to switch cables. The problem is, \n: the new hard drive's manual refers to matching pin 1 on the cable\n: with both pin 1 on the drive itself and pin 1 on the IDE card. But\n: for the life of me I cannot figure out how to tell which way to plug\n: in the cable to align these. \n\nMost IDE drives that I have dealt with have had pin 2 labeled on the printed\ncircuit board (this is sufficient to determine which side is which). If your\nIDE drive does not have a label, then you can look for a polarization notch in\nthe receptacle (the connector on the drive with the pins). If the receptacle\nis center polarized, that is it has one rectangular notch about 4 mm wide\npositioned in the center of one side, then you can identify pin 1 as follows:\nlook into the pins with the notch at the top, pin 1 is at the top right. On\nall drives I have seen this is toward the power connector. As for which pin\nis pin 1 on the controller, well you can use the same criteria but look hard\nfor the labelling of any pin. Once you know which end pin 1&2 are on or pins\n39 & 40 (the oposite end), then you are all set. All you need to do is keep\nthe pin 1 end connected to the pin 1 end. You don't even have to look at the\ncable itself. Just trace the pin 1 side of the cable through. Usually the\npin 1 of the cable is identified by a different color (red usually). But\nbeware - many cable makers are not very careful about this - I have seen cables\nwith pin 40 being the one marked red. Of course with non-polarized connectors\nthis doesn't matter - you can plug the cable in either way and YOU decide\nwhich side is pin 1.\n\n: Secondly, the cable has like a connector at two ends and one between them.\n: I figure one end goes in the controler and then the other two go into\n: the drives. Does it matter which I plug into the \"master\" drive\n: and which into the \"Slave\"? any help appreciated. thanks...\n\nIt doesn't matter what gets plugged where. But it does matter how the drives\nare jumpered. There will be (amongst other options) two jumpers that you\nshould be concerned with on BOTH drives. One jumper will select whether the\ndrive is the slave or the master. If it is the master, then a second jumper\nselects whether or not a slave is present. You will have to consult the \ndocuementation that came with you drives. If you do not have docuementation,\nthen just call the manufacturers hotline number or fax number if they have\none. This kind of information is routinely needed by people just like\nyourself. They will fax you complete info about the jumpers. If you don't\nhave convenient access to a fax machine, then you can usually get voice\nhelp. Or post the specific question to this group. (I probably won't be\nable to help you).\n\nGood Luck", "\nDoes GX take the place of 32 bit QD or add to it? Right now 32 bit is\nkinda aesthetically a pain in a few places because of hacks upon hacks\nto maintain compatibility with original QD---I think of things like\nwhere you have to cast CGrafPorts to GrafPorts and such. It would be a\nlot cleaner to ditch this entire mess and start over---do we get that?", "I have heard that there is something called a $25.00 Network that allows\ntwo PC's to be networked by joining their serial ports. Does someone out\nthere know anything about this? I would greatly appreciate e-mail on this!\n\nThanks! tschewe@first.etc.bc.ca", "\tHave you checked Foley's book? The solutions are in chapter 13.", "\n'Illumination and Color in Computer Generated Imagery' by Roy Hall contains c\nsource for several famous illumination models, including Bouknight, Phong,\nBlinn, Whitted, and Hall illumination models. If you want an introduction to\nshading you might look through the book 'Writing a Raytracer' edited by\nGlassner. Also, the book 'Procedural elements for Computer Graphics' by Rogers\nis a good reference. Source for code in these book are available on the net i \nbelieve, you might check out nic.funet.fi or some site closer to you carrying \ngraphics related stuff. \n\nHope this is what you were asking for.\n-- \nTorgeir Veimo\n\nStudying at the University of Bergen\n\n\"...I'm gona wave my freak flag high!\" (Jimi Hendrix)", "Here's another question by a hesitant Powerbook purchaser.\nI want to be able to run Mathematica and would like to hear some comments \nfrom the gallery about this. How much slower does the program run on a \nmachine without an FPU (namely a PB160) versus a machine with an FPU \n(namely a PB170). What types of calculations get bogged down the most. I \nprimarily due moderately simple algebra, integrals which can be dealt with \nanalytically and plotting including 3-d plots. I don't do a lot of \nnumerical work. Would a PB160 with a lot of memory ( and the very nice \nvideo port ) be sufficient or should I really try to get an FPU for this \ntype of work? Is a PB170 with 8Mb faster than a PB160 with 12 or 16Mb.\nAll comments appreciated. ", "\nWell, yeah, but unlike TIFF they all do substantially more than encode\nrectangular bitmaps. And the others are hardly trouble free. I hear that\nit is quite common for CGM implementations not to interoperate.\n\nThe annoying thing about TIFF is that is that along with the 50 useful\noptions, there are 100 stupid options. The most egregious example is that\nrather than picking a byte order and bit order and using it consistently\nin all TIFF files, byte and bit order are options and all TIFF readers on\nall machines, no matter what their natural byte order, have to be prepared\nto do byte swapping. There are four slightly different FAX formats --\nagain, any one of them would have been adequate. RGB images can be stored\nby pixel or by component, complexity without function, etc, etc. I also\nnote that the TIFF doc says that Aldus' experiments show that LZW reliably\ncompresses as well or better than any of the FAX formats, suggesting that\nnone of the FAX formats are really useful.\n\nWhat's worse, a lot of the formats aren't even implemented very well,\ne.g., LZW limits code words to 12 bits, while 14 or 16 bits would have\nprovided substantially better compression. And the LZW method compresses\nbytes rather than pixels.\n\nBut the absolute worst thing about TIFF is that any vendor can register\nproprietary TIFF codes and formats without even publicly documenting them.\nThis means that there is NO WAY to write a TIFF reader that can reliably\nread all incoming TIFF files. Some standard.", "Where can I find it ?", "I got the following today from Gary Risebrough and it worked fine:\n\nExcerpts from mail: 29-Apr-93 Re: ol{v}wm 3 virtual keybo..\nITO2@aodc.gov.au (554)\n\n\n\n", "Does anyone out there have at hand the phone or fax number for TECH POWER, who\nare a PC motherboard manufacturer (may be known as TECH POWER Enterprises).\n\nThannks in advance\n\n- Chris\n", "We are getting a memory fault and a core dump whenever we end a Motif\nsession under Ultrix 4.3, running on a DEC 5000/240. An examintion of the \ncore file leads us to believe it's from getcons. Does anyone know what\nthis is all about?\n\nmarc", "[Sorry if I posted this to the wrong place, wasn't sure where this\nshould go...]\n\nModel PS6600 - 64K memory, storage for telephone numbers, addresses,\nmemos, schedule, calendar, calculator. Password protection, 6 line\ndisplay, full keyboard, 32 characters per line. Search through all data\nstorage areas for keywords, transmit to or receive entries via IBM\ncompatible computers with optional interface kit. Uses 2 AAA batteries,\nand 1 lithium battery for backup. Also has world time, sound, still has\n1 year Service Merchandise warranty left, with manual. Sells new for\n$90, asking $65 (shipping included).", "I am interested in any information on stereoscopic imaging on a sun\nworkstation. For the most part, I need to know if there is any hardware\navailable to interface the system and whether the refresh rates are\nsufficient to produce quality image representations. Any information\nabout the subject would be greatly appreciated.", "Could someone PLEASE give a guess as to why this simple little program\ncauses a BadPixmap error on the FOURTH (bizarre???) call to XtRelaizeWidget()?\n\nHere is the code:\n\n\nint stoploop = 0;\n\nstatic void Callback(Widget, XtPointer, XtPointer);\n\nmain()\n{\n XtToolkitInitialize();\n XtAppContext app = XtCreateApplicationContext();\n while (1)\n {\n int junk = 0;\n Display *dis = XtOpenDisplay(app, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, 0,\n &junk, NULL);\n\n Widget top = XtAppCreateShell(NULL, NULL,\n applicationShellWidgetClass, dis, NULL, 0);\n\n Widget box = XtVaCreateManagedWidget(\"x\",\n xmPushButtonWidgetClass,\n top,\n XmNheight, 25,\n XmNwidth, 25, NULL);\n\n XtAddCallback(box, XmNactivateCallback, Callback, NULL);\n\n XtRealizeWidget(top);\n while (!stoploop)\n {\n XEvent event;\n XtAppNextEvent(app, &event);\n XtDispatchEvent(&event);\n }\n stoploop = 0;\n XtReleaseGC(top, XDefaultGCOfScreen(XtScreen(top))); // needed?\n XtDestroyWidget(top);\n XtCloseDisplay(dis);\n }\n}\n\nstatic void Callback(Widget, XtPointer, XtPointer)\n{\n stoploop = 1;\n}\n\n\nThe error I get (yes, the 4TH time I try to show the box) is:\n\nX Error of failed request: BadPixmap (invalid Pixmap parameter)\n Major opcode of failed request: 55 (X_CreateGC)\n Resource id in failed request: 0xd0000d\n Serial number of failed request: 71\n Current serial number in output stream: 85\n\n\nPlease respond via email. Thanks very, very much!\n\n(NOTE: I realize this program does nothing useful, its an ultra-trivialized\nversion fo a real library routine)\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDavid Rex Wood -- davewood@cs.colorado.edu -- University of Colorado at Boulder", "Didn't McDonald's sell copies of \"Dances with Wovies\" for $7 not too\nlong ago?\n\nThey were also selling \"Babes in Toyland\" (the SCOTT BAIO version!)\nand something even more forgettable.\n\nJust think: video drive-thru........\n\n\n\"I'll take a McRib, a McChicken, and a copy of Debbie Does McDallas\nto go\"\n\n\"Do you want fries and napkins with that?\"\n\n", "Hi there\n\nI am very interested in Rayshade 4.00. I have managed to make a chessboard\nfor Rayshade. Unfortunately I still have to do the knight (horse). Any ideas?\nI am also looking for a surface for the chesspieces. The board is marble.\nUnfortunately black won't work very well for the one side. Anybody with ideas\nfor nice surfaces?\n\nI would also like to use the image command of rayshade and the heightfield\ncommand. Unfortunately the manual is very vague about this, and I don't have\nCraig Kolb's email address. Anybody with ideas, because this is essential\nfor my next venture into raytracing.\n\nWhere should I post the finished chessboard?\n\nIs there anybody else using rayshade on non-Unix systems?\n\nHow fast does Unix render?\n\nThanks", "Hello ,\nI need a microsoft mouse driver, but newer as 8.6 for\ngoing in dos window under ms windows, but it is must be freeware.\nI have version 7.00 .\n\t\t\t\t Tx Mike", "Why is it going to take a year for V.fast to become a standard? Are there\ntechnical problems to work out, or is it just bureaucratic slowdown? THANKS!\n", "I am interested in a 2d/3d graphics library which will allow our design\nteam to write graphics software for Unix workstations and be as portable as \npossible. Eventually this software will have to be moved to Microsoft\nWindows. It is my opinion that a good API with hooks to PEX underneath\nwould prove most portable.\n\nDoes anyone out there have any experience with Figaro+ form TGS or\nHOOPS from Ithaca Software? I would appreciate any comments.\n\n- Claye Hart\n", "\nBe very careful with these results! As I recall, numbers from Winbench\n2.5 are calculated differently from 3.1, and so these figures are not\ncomparable.\n\nHowever, to answer Stephen's question, replacing the Ahead B card with\na Diamond 24x will yield a cost-effective, dramatic speed increase for\nWindows. That or the ATI Graphics Ultra Plus....", "I have two 4 meg SIMMS that I am trying to sell. I\nhad them in my LC. I would like to get $100 for\neach one. They are only three months old and have a\nlifetime warrenty. They are 80ns simms. I will also\nconsider other reasonable offers. Please E-Mail me.\n\nDave", "\n\tWell here is my $0.02 worth. Advice from a grad student.\n\n\tI agree with the gentlemen who wrote the comment before me.\nThe important thing is pick what ever interest you the most and \nlearn as much as possible about it. \n\n\tIn my five years of education in this field, though brief \ncompare to alot of people, I had to think about this kind of \nquestion a lot. Did I make the right decision in going into\nElectrical Engineering as opposed to Computer engineering or\nCS? The more I go thru school, the more I believe that this\nkind of question is irrelevant. \n \n\tI have come to believe that choosing CS because one \ndoes not like hardware or choosing hardware because one does\nnot like to program is really doing an injustice of building\nand computer and making it useful for something. Everything\nis interwoven and inseparable. CS, CE, and EE are all a \npart of a really great discipline and do depend on each other.\n\n\tMy advice is don't limit yourself, but make a decision\nbased on which major will give you the best opportunities to \nlearn. That of course depends on the curriculum at your \npersective school. I would choose a major that allows me to\nexplore as much as possible. Beside, I don't know why the\nschool would make a student choose a major before her/his\nsophamore year. \n\n\tHey you may be so interested in this field that you \ndecided to learn all about the making of computers in which \ncase, you suffer a little more and go to grad school.\n\n\tAbout the money. Don't look at the averages, if you\nare good, you are going to earn more money than anyone else. \nIf you are a superstar programmer, you will earn millions. \nLike wise if you are a hotshot computer designers. ", "Okay all my friends are bitching at me that the map I made in Appsoft Draw\ncan't be displayed in \"xv\"... I checked... It's true, at least with version\n1.0. My readers on the NeXT have very little trouble on it (Preview messes\nup the .eps, but does fine with the TIFF and ImageViewer0.9a behaves with\nflying colors except it doesn't convert worth *&^^% ;-) )\n\n Please is there any way I can convert this .drw from Appsoft 1.0 on the NeXT\nto something more reasonable like .gif? I have access to a sun4 and NeXTstep\n3.0 systems. any good reliable conversion programs would be helpful... please\nemail, I'll post responses if anyone wants me to... please email that to.\n\nYes I used alphachannel... (god i could choke steve jobs right now ;-) )\n\nYes i know how to archie, but tell me what to archie for ;-)\n\nAlso is there a way to convert to .ps plain format? ImageViiewer0.9 turns\nout nothing recognizable....\n\n terrychay\n\n---\nsmall editorial\n\n-rw-r--r-- 1 tychay 2908404 Apr 18 08:03 Undernet.tiff\n-rw-r--r-- 1 tychay 73525 Apr 18 08:03 Undernet.tiff.Z", "Here is the latest on relocating your help files to a server. \nThe WinHelp() function, as I am told by MS, does search your path so \nrelocating MS windows helpfiles won't be a problem as long as you include\nthe path to where you move them to, however, if an application has \nhardcoded the path into their code so that when WinHelp is invoked it\nsearches the given path (i.e. WinHelp(hwnd, c:\\amipro) for example) then\nWinHelp does not search your path and instead looks only to that directory\nwhere you have installed your software.\n\nI tested this out on a variety of software packages. I moved all my \nhelpfiles to the drive z:\\ and included this in the path statement.\nHere is the results for different software packages:\n\n\nNorton Desktop\t\t\tFound Helpfiles\nWindows V3.1 for WorkGroups\tFound Helpfiles\nWindows V3.1\t\t\tFound Helpfiles\nMS Powerpoint V3.0\t\tFound Helpfiles\nMS Word\t\t\t\tFound Helpfiles\nMS Excel V4.0a\t\t\tDid Not Find Helpfiles (strange)\nMS Foxpro V2.5 for Windows\tFound Helpfiles\nLotus Amipro V3.0\t\tDid Not Find Helpfiles\nProcomm Plus for Windows\tDid Not Find Helpfiles\n\n\nI guess this is better than nothing but it would make sense to be able to \nspecify a global path for helpfiles. \n\nIf anyone has any comments or If I can help anyone or if I left something\nout please let me know.\n\n\t\tlhighley@gozer.idbsu.edu\n\nthanks for the help from everyone especially jagrant@emr1.emr.ca", "\nYes, I did punch in the wrong numbers (working too many late nites). I\nintended on stating 640x400 is 256,000 bytes. It's not in the bios, just my\nVESA TSR.\n", "The MOTIF application consists of multiple Transient shells as children \nof a single TopLevel shell:\n\n+-----------+ +---------------+ +----------------+\n+-----------+ +---------------+ | +----------------+\n |\n | +----------------+\n |-| TransientShell |\n | +----------------+\n |\n\nWhile a Transient shell is popped-up, my application modifies the \nsensitivity of a button in the TopLevel shell which is hidden by the \nTransient shell window. When the Transient shell is popped-down, the \nbutton sensitivity is correct but the button text remains unchanged \n(i.e., solid/shaded). Subsequent selection of the button causes the \ntext to revert to the correct visual state.\n\nWhen tracing event messages sent to the application, many of the events \nseen under mwm are not present under OpenWindows.", "We are searching for one or two instructors for tutorials on advanced\nWindows programming under NT. If anyone has attended a course that was\nvery good, we would really appreciate recommendations.\n\nPlease email me directly at paller@fedunix.org; I don't get to see these\nnewsgroups often enough.\n\nThanks in advance for any help.", "Version 1.3 of Xew widgets is available at\n\n\texport.lcs.mit.edu: contrib/Xew-1.3.tar.Z\n\texport.lcs.mit.edu: contrib/Xew-1.3.README\n\nFor better details, check the README. (For extensive details, you have\nto with Xew-1.1.ps.Z, still haven't had time to update this one).\n\nNo new functionality has been added since 1.2 version. Raster widget\nhandles now expose events slightly more intelligently than before\n(really had to do this when I added a simple program that uses X11R5\nAthena Porthole and Panner widgets). The program demo/viewer.c is\nvery simple demonstration of panner/porthole usage (copied\nfrom'editres' actually :-)", "A friend of mine has a complete set of AIX-PS/2 1.2 software\n\tand manuals for sale. (NEW) (all on 1.44 Meg floppies)\n\tincluding:\n\n\t\tBase OS\n\t\tDevelopment tools (including C Compiler)\n\t\tAdministration extensions\n\t\tX Windows / Motif\n\t\tTCP/IP \n\t\tPC simulator (DOS Merge)\n\t\tetc. etc.....\n\n\t(This software requires a PS/2 with 386 processor or higher, \n\tample disk space and memory :-) it can coexist with dos and \n\tOS/2 on the same machine, and selectively booted at startup.)\n\n\tIf you are interested email me your offer and I will pass\n\tit along. Keep in mind that the manuals and software fill \n\tup a 12x12x18 box so shipping is a consideration.", "Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.mac.misc: 5-Apr-93 Re: HELP INSTALL RAM\nON CEN.. by Jason Harvey Titus@farad \n\n\n\noh boy am i confused, I thought the entire point of the 72 pin simms was\nthat you could use diffrent size simms so you could avoid having to use\nsets. all horror stories not withstanding.", "I have gotten X11R5 pl 23 to compile on AIX 3.2.2 using cc.\n but the server will not run. it simplys starts and a couple seconds\n later exits. no error are displayed. \n my defines for compile are\n -DSYSV -DAIXV3 -DSYSV_WAIT -DMALLOC_0_RETURNS_NULL \n\n \n could somewhere share some light, or maybe the ibm.cf file. \n\n thanks.", "Looking for ORGANIZER program for Windows.\nCurrently have Lotus Organizer, not bad, but looking for better.\nShould have a calender / scheduler.\nShould have a to do list.\nNice additions : Address / Phone Book\n\t\t Diary\nPlease, any suggestions? Shareware/Public/or Copyrighted...\nPlease EMAIL sthong@eniac.seas.upenn.edu\n--\n\n\n\n -------------------------------------------\n Steven Hong \n Email Address : sthong@eniac.seas.upenn.edu\n University of Pennsylvania\n Engineering Class of 1996", "\n\nIDE does not do DMA. This is because it's like te PC AT hard disk\ninterface. The controller moves a sector to some buffer memory on the\ncontroller card, then the CPU moves the data from the buffer to main\nmemory where it's needed. If IDE doesn't work this way, then it's not\ncompatible.\n\nHeck, if IDE used DMA, then you'd hear all kinds of complaints about\nISA bus systems with more than 16M RAM not working with their IDE\ndrives. 16M is the DMA addressing limit of the ISA bus, and if IDE\ndid DMA there would be trouble.\n\n(BTW, there are DMA-enabling signals in the IDE cable spec, but the\nlast report I heard was that they are never implemented, because it\nwould require a different kind of IDE adapter and different drivers.)", "\nThere's a program called \"Icon Frightener\" included with the book Stupid\nWindows Tricks by Bob LeVitus and Ed Tittel (Addison-Wesley, 1992). It's\nfreeware. If it's not on the net anywhere, I'll happily email a copy to\nsomeone who's willing to upload it (I can't upload through our Internet\nfirewall).\n", "\n\t[a list of large-integer arithmetic packages elided]\n\nI thought I would note that except Lenstra's packages, none of the\nlarge-integer packages are in the public domain. As an alternative,\na straightforward *PD* implementation of Knuth's algorithms may be\nfound as a part of Uof Arizona's ICON distribution.\n\noz", "#\n#No doubt this is an old question, but I didn't find the answer in the\n#FAQs I could find, so - here goes:\n#\n#I have a Sunview application that I want to convert to X (OpenLook,\n#Motiv, whatever). I remember hearing quite some time ago that there\n#are tools to accomplish this task.\n#\n#\ta) is that so?\n#\tb) are they public domain?\n#\tc) any good, i.e.\n#\td) advantages over reimplementing the interface myself?\n#\n\nThe simple answer is for you to obtain use XView to do this. XView is a\none to one replacement for Sunview. It should already be provided with\nyou Sun running OpenWindows. It is also free available as part of the\ncontrib side of the MIT X11R5 release.\n\nPatrick L. Mahan\n\n--- TGV Window Washer ------------------------------- Mahan@TGV.COM ---------", ":As a matter of fact, i do keep random files on my disk. The reason is,\n:without special-purpose hardware, it takes a long time to generate good random\n:bits. I have programs that crank out a couple bits per minute, which is\n:pretty conservative, but over time that's more than i need.\n\nSounds like a useful program - interested in posting it to alt.sources?", "\n\n\n\nIt has been a while since I knew the electronics of ham radio, but I seem\nto remember that PeP is actually 4x the \"real\" power. Which makes 1KW PeP\nactually around 250W. Or was it 2x? I disremember.\n\n\"Effective transmitted power\" is also \"odd\", in that it takes into account\nantenna height and geometry. Which is why a TV station with a 50KW Klystron\nmight advertise a megawatt (if their antenna is on the top of the\nCN tower ;-).\n\nThis is like Sears HP ;-)\n\nThough, 1500 real watts still isn't impossible. About 125-150A with\na 12V alternator, less if the alternator produces higher voltages.\n\nIt's only three horsepower (taking into account inefficiencies). You'll\nfeel it when you hit the key. But not too much.", "Hi,\n\n Please reply to me direct as I am not a member of this list.\n\n I am new to X, so please excuse my lax (read: \"probably incorrect\")\nterminology!\n\n Environment: Sun Sparc 10, SunOs 4.1.3. X11R5 path level 23. My X process\nis started by xdm.\n\n i) I want to setup the backgroud (root window?) of the tvtwm display to\n display the escherknot etc (grey is a very boring colour to work on)!\n\n The setup is as follows:\n\n lib/X11/xdm/Xsetup_0 - xsetroot -bitmap ... etc\n ~user/.xsession - xsetroot .... etc\n tvtwm\n\n There are also .tvtwmrc and .Xdefaults files in the (~user) home\n directory.\n\n The xsetroot in Xsetup_0 displays the appropriate bitmap in the xdm\n login window as expected - very nice!\n\n Unfortunately, when the users session is started, the background of the\n tvtwm window reverts to grey. If I manually type xsetroot... in an\n xterm window when the session has started, the background is changed as\n expected.\n\n The question is: How do I retain the background from the login window\n and/or specify a new background on a per-user basis as part of the\n the users session startup?\n\n ii) When I open an Xterm on the Sparc 10, not all of the keys are recognised\n and some keys on the keyboard are not sending the correct characters.\n\n ie: real key key shown on screen\n ------------ -------------------\n hash back slash\n tilde pipe\n double quote at symbol\n pound hash\n cursor key not recognised\n\n This is very annoying! Is X at fault here or the machine setup? I have\n installed the xterm drivers that came with X11R5 in both terminfo and\n termcap as they seemed more uptodate.\n\n Typing set in an xterm window shows a terminal type of xterm - as\n expected!\n\n Any help on how to correct either of these problems much appreciated!\n\n Thanks,\n\nDave.", "\n\nAccording to reports, if you don't have DOS yet, and don't have any\nutilities (QEMM, Stacker, PCTools, Norton, ...) then DOS6 may be worth it. \n\nFor people who have DOS5, and some sort of utility, DOS6 doesn't offer\nmuch. You'd never know it from the usual hype that marketing is able\nto create, however. :-)", "I have a Standard Computer 486DX2/66mhz EISA Tower with 16MB RAM, a Quantum 240MB Hard Drive, 1.2 and 1.44 MB floppies and a Colorado 250MB tape drive. I also have a Sound Blaster Pro and a 3COM Ethernet card (3C507) installed. The machine is completely stable in non-Turbo mode. In Turbo mode, Windows for Workgroups crashes or won't come up at all. If Windows does come up, I get General Protection Faults and Divide by Zero System Errors. Is there a problem with memory keeping up with the speed of the CPU o\n\n\n\nn these machines?\n\nI have tried to reach Standard Computers, but their phones have been disconnected.\nDoes anyone know what happened to this company?\nYAMOHS- Yet Another Mail Order Horror Story!", "Hi. I think I have a problem with the stereo sound output on my Quadra\n900, but I am not totally sure because my roomate has the same problem\non his PowerBook 170. Any info or experience anyopne has would be\ngreatly appreciated.\n\nWhen I hook my Quadra up to my home stereo system, the following types\nof sounds (mono, as far as I can tell) all play fine through BOTH\nspeakers:\n\nsystem beeps (already provided ones such as Indigo and ones I record)\n\nArmor Alley\nSpectre\nSpaceward Ho!\n\n\nBut, the following games only play out of the left channel:\n\nLemmings\nOut of This World (awesome game, BTW)\nGlider 4.0\nOIDS\n\n\nBut still, STEREO system beeps do play in stereo, through BOTH speakers.\n(The one I'm specifically referrring to is Apocolyptic Beginning, which\nmy roommate downloaded from some ftp site (sumex?))\n\n\nAll of the symptoms are the same on my rommates 170 (he can't run\nOOTW because he doesn't have color).\n\nWe're both running system 7.1\n\n\n\nDoes anyone with Lemmings or the other three games I mentioned above get\nsound out of both speakers on a Mac II class, Quadra, LC, PowerBook 140 or\ngreater, Centris, SE/30, etc... (stereo) machine?\n\nI used to have a Mac II, and I sort of rememeber Lemmings playing in\nstereo on that machine, not just on the left channel. (I could be\nmistaken, though. If there were a problem with the Quad 900's and PB\n170's, I am wondering why the system beeps still play in stereo? If there\nisn't a problem with our machines, I wonder why the 4 games above are\napparantly written to support only one channel of stereo when they\ncould just use mono sounds so the mono sound would at least come out of\nboth speakers (like Spectre, etc. do)?\n\nQuadra 900's and PowerBook 170's have the same ROMS (to my knowledge),\nso maybe this is a ROM problem? (if so, though, why wouldn't System 7.1\npatch over this problem?)\n\n\n\n\nThanks for any help you can provide!\n", "Can anybody help me?\n\nI am having a problem displaying images greater than 32768 bytes on a Sparc\nIPC running Openwindows 3.0 and dni. My program runs on a Vax and displays\nimages on the IPC with no problems if I use Openwindows 2.0. The program uses\nthe following lines to display the image - it is the XPutImage() routine\nthat crashes.\n\n\tXImage *ximage;\n\tximage = XCreateImage(myDisplay, DefaultVisual(myDisplay, myScreen),\n\t\t\t ddepth, ZPixmap, 0, image,\n\t\t\t xwid, ywid, 8, 0);\n\tXPutImage(myDisplay, myWindow, myGC, ximage, 0, 0,\n\t\t xpos, ypos, xwid, ywid);\n\nThe error I get is:-\n\nXIO: fatal IO error 65535 on X server \"galaxy::0.0\"\n after 30 requests (18 known processed) with 0 events remaining.\n%XLIB-F-IOERROR, xlib io error\n-SYSTEM-F-LINKDISCON, network partner disconnected logical link\n%TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump follows\nmodule name routine name line rel PC abs PC\n\n 000773B9 000773B9\n 00077BBE 00077BBE\n 0007259D 0007259D\n 00072741 00072741\n 00072840 00072840\n 00072A27 00072A27\nMYXSUBS my_imtoiks 3184 00000093 000010AF\nTEST main 293 000000E5 00000EE5\n\nI have a simple test program if anyone would like to test it !!\n\nThanks Paul.\n\n-- \n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------", "The subject says nearly everything;\nI am talking about the accellerator card (note the 'X'), not about\nthe ET4000 product (without 'X').\n\nPlease mail me the address of an appropriate ftp-server.\n\nThanx:", "\nAre any of the inputs to the chip coming from TTL? Standby-drain specs\nfor CMOS chips typically apply only if inputs are pulled all the way down\nto zero or all the way up to Vcc. TTL isn't good at doing the former and\nit won't do the latter at all without help from pullup resistors. This\nsort of thing can easily multiply power consumption by a considerable\nfactor, because the CMOS transistors that are supposed to be OFF aren't\nall the way hard OFF.", "Hi!\n\nI have the following 2 CD's for sale. These are absolutely new and in\nthe original packing.\n\nArtist\t\tAlbum\t\t\t\tOriginal\tSale\n\t\t\t\t\t\t Price\t\t Price\n\nMadonna\t\tThe Immaculate Collection \t$19.95+\t\t$11.95\n\nPet Shop Boys\tDiscography\t\t\t$19.95\t\t$11.95\n\nIf you are interested, pls. contact me at:\n\n\t\t\tparikhma@ucunix.san.uc.edu\n\nThanks.", "When I run our RS6000's \"info\" utility through a remote login\n shell (rlogin) from my Sun Sparc 1+, I can no longer type\n lower case in any of info's window prompt's.\n\n I thought the prob. may have been due to my Sun window mgr. \n (Openlook) being incompatible with the AIX Motif application\n but I tried it under TVTWM also. Same result.\n \n So this is presumably an X11 key definition problem between \n workstations - but my system admins. feign ignorance.\n \n What do I need to do the be able to type lower case into \n this remote AIX motif app. from within my local Openlook\n window manager?\n \n \n-- ", "\nsame here\n\n\nI received similar information/advice about what appears to be the same problem \nBenjamin has (and I still have).\nNIS has all the information about the Macs\n(I even put explicit entries in /etc/hosts to no avail).\nMonitoring with 'snoop' on my Classic, the initial REXEC packet is sent to\nthe the SUN, which sends something to the correct Mac, but nothing appears\nat the Mac.\n'rexecd' is number one suspect, but it's more suble than the README suggests and\nI haven't yet looked into it further.\n\n-- \ncallum.downie@brunel.ac.uk\nFaculty of Technology, Brunel University, Uxbridge, UB8 3PH, UK\n+44 895 274000 x2730", "\nWrong...the major improvements for 2.01 and 2.01a are in the use of IPAS routines\nfor 3d studio. They have increased in speed anywhere from 30-200% depending\non which ones you use.", "HELP!\n\n\tI just received my Falcon 2.2.1 upgrade from Spectrum Holobyte today.\nMy SE is running Sys 7.0.1 with 4mb of RAM. Like the instructions said, I only\ninstalled Disk 2 (The program...no start up screen or music).\n\n\tI just downloaded Macsbug from ftp.apple.com like it said, and\ninstalled it in my System folder. I restarted the mac an hour later, and it \nwouldn't completely boot off the internal HD. I get the \"happy mac\", then it\ndisappears, only to reappear and repeat the cycle continuously. I never even\nget the \"Welcome to Macintosh\" message. Norton utilities fixed about 12 new\nproblems, but the same thing still happened.\n\n\tWhat do I do?\n\n\tPlease e-mail to \"orly@aludra.usc.edu\"\n\n\n\t\tTHANKS IN ADVANCE!!!\n\n\n\t\tVictor Orly\n\n;", "Still no good. WatchIT TV will not work on a with local bus video.\nIt will not work in any high reolution modes either. The people who\nmake the card assure me that they will have a card available in June \nthat supports both local-bus and hi-res. BTW does anyone know the\nname of the company who makes watchit tv? Phone #? BBS? Internet?\n\nThanks", "Hello,\n\nI am testing a port of X11R5 to Coherent, a unix clone OS for Intel architecture\nmachines. I am seeing a strange problem with text in clients like xvt (a simple\nterminal emulator program).\n\nThe problem manifests it self when the shell echoes typed characters back to the\nserver for display, one at a time. The characters appear to be too closely\nspaced, with the result being that the 2nd character echoed destroys the \nrightmost edge of the first character, then the 3rd character destroys the \nrightmost edge of the second character, and so on. It looks like there is an\ninvisible boundary around a character which obscures a portion of the previous\ncharacter. There is no problem between the characters when the shell returns\na complete line of text... only when the output is a series of individual\ncharacters.\n\nIf anyone has any ideas what the problem might be, or where I should look to\nfind it, it would be much appreciated.\n\nRegards and thanks, Jon Dhuse.\n", "Hi, netters\n\nI am looking for source code that can reads the ascii file\nor bitmap file and produced the thinned image.\nFor example, to preprocess the character image I want to\napply thinning algorithm.", "Dear friends,\n\nI am a graduate student in Education at the University of Tennessee. As part of\nthe requirements for a research class in music education I designed a\nquestionnaire to colect data for my research project. The study intends to\ndetermine which techniques (if any) have been used to teach music for the deaf.\n\nIf you have any experience in music education for the deaf and would like to\nhelp me with this project, your help would be very much appreciated. \n\nIf you also want to exchange some ideas about the subject matter, feel yourself\nwelcome. I have been working in this area for a while (in Brazil _ by the way,\nI am Brazilian _ and also in US) and I am very pleased with the results.\n\nI hope that this inquiry will not cause too many inconveniences. Thank you for\nor time and consideration.\n\n\n __QUESTIONNAIRE__\n Teaching Music for deaf children.\n\nNAME ________________________________\nADDRESS/ E-MAIL _____________________\nEMPLOYING INSTITUTION _______________\nYEARS OF EXPERIENCE_________ GRADE LEVEL(S)____\nEDUCATIONAL BACKGROUND:BACHELOR__ MASTERS__ DOCTORATE__\nPROFESSIONAL FIELD:SPECIAL EDUC.__ MUSIC EDUC.__ OTHER*__\n*If you checked \"other\", please indicate your major: ____\n\n\tSome school systems require music to be taught to deaf children, other\nschool systems have not thought of the possibility to teach music for children\nwith hearing limitations. The following questionnaire was designed to find out\nhow teachers face the issue of teaching or not teaching music for the deaf.\nAlso, a part of this study is to determine teachers attitudes towards music\nprograms for deaf children.\n\n\tDIRECTIONS:\n\tREAD THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS AND CIRCLE THE NUMBER THAT BEST DESCRIBES\nYOUR ATTITUDE TOWARDS MUSIC FOR DEAF CHILDREN (LEFT COLUMN), AND CIRCLE THE\nAPPROPRIATE \"YES\", \"NO\" OR \"NOT APPLICABLE\", WHETHER YOU DO THE TASK (RIGHT\nCOLUMN).\n\nSD= Strongly disagree\t\t\tY= yes\nDIS= Disagree\t\t\t\tN= no\nNEU= Neutral\t\t\t\tN/A= not applicable\nAG= Agree\nSA= Strongly agree\n\nSD DIS NEU AG SA\t\tCOMPETENCIES\t\t\tY N N/A\n___________________________________________________________________________\n1 2 3 4 5\t1.Deaf children can be educated in y n n/a\n \t\t\tmusic.\n1 2 3 4 5\t2.Deaf children should have regular y n n/a\n\t\t\tmusic classes.\n1 2 3 4 5\t3.A special music teacher must posses y n n/a\n\t\t\tan appropriate training in a variety\n\t\t\tof communication methods to use with\n\t\t\tdeaf children.\n1 2 3 4 5\t4.In preparing the lessons the teacher y n n/a\n\t\t\tmust keep in mind that deaf children\n\t\t\tmay present special needs in order to\n\t\t\tparticipate in musical activities.\n1 2 3 4 5\t5.Deaf and normal hearing children \ty n n/a\n\t\t\tshould have music classes together.\n1 2 3 4 5\t6. 80% of a succesful music experience y n n/a\n\t\t\tby a deaf child depends upon the\n\t\t\tteacher's creativity and commitment\n\t\t\twith the subject matter.\n1 2 3 4 5\t7.Deaf children can learn to appreciate y n n/a\n\t\t\tmusic but they will never be a musician\n\t\t\tor a performer.\n1 2 3 4 5\t8.Deaf children are not able to\t\ty n n/a\n\t\t\tdiscriminate and recognize sounds.\n1 2 3 4 5\t9.Deaf children can not distinguish\ty n n/a\n\t\t\tamong loud and soft sounds.\n1 2 3 4 5\t10.Deaf children can never match the y n n/a\n\t\t\tmusic in their head to a note on a\n\t\t\tmusical instrument.\n1 2 3 4 5\t11.The most appropriate material to\ty n n/a\n\t\t\tstart music classes for the deaf\n\t\t\twould be the folk songs said he would be replaced by the military commandant of\nBaku, police Major-General Abdullah Allakhverdiyev. There was no official\nconfirmation.\n\n", "Can anyone tell me where I might find stereo images of planetary and\nplanetary satellite surfaces? GIFs preferred, but any will do. I'm\nespecially interested in stereos of the surfaces of Phobos, Deimos, Mars\nand the Moon (in that order).\n Thanks. \n", "If there is a \"USA Today ftp site\" could someone please post it to the \n newsgroup so everyone will stop posting the \"send it to me too\" articles.\n I'm sure many people woulds like to know so why not just post it to the net\n rather than mailing hundreds of people. \n\n Just a thought. \n\n\n Thanks, Ryan Robin.", "\nYou may have been emailed this, but the IIsi's power supply is not rated to\nhandle the GC board. Remember when the si came out and everyone complained\nabout it's power supply. This is one result of apple providing a low-cost\ncomputer and I think they got a lot of flack for having a relatively high end\ncomputer (at the time anyways) that couldn't even support their own video\nboard. Even if this isn't what is causing your problems, you might develop\none later.", "Hi,\n\twould someone please email (and post)\nthe AVI (Microsoft) file format. I wish to\ndo some research using this format, as there\nare disks available with video clips. It is\ninteresting because it interleaves sound and\nvideo.\n\nThank you\n\n\nMark Gregory Lecturer m.gregory@rmit.edu.au PH(03)6603243 FAX(03)6621060\nRoyal Melbourne Institute of Technology,\nDepartment of Communication and Electronic Engineering,\nP.O. Box 2476V, Melbourne, Victoria, 3001. AUSTRALIA.", "Hi,\n\n\tBeing a Electronic Engineering Student with only Electronic II under\nmy belt, I find myself *needing* to build a moderate wattage Audio Amp. So, \nI'll throw out a couple of question for the vast knowledge of the 'net'!\n\n\tPlease Explain how Watts are calculated in Audio Amp circuits. No,\nNot P=I*E, Just how it relates to one of the following:\n\n\tAi [Current Gain]\n\tAv [Voltage Gain]\n\tAp [Power Gain]\n\tor whatever.\n\nI already have a ?wonderful? cheap I.E <$20 schematic for a 20W amp, but\nI would like to Cross/improve the circuit. The problem is that the parts\nlist has IC1 and IC2 as NEC70001AB amplifiers. They look like ?11 pin? \nSIP packages with a heatsink. This schematic was published in a 1991 mag\nso it may be non-existant now. Anyway, I tried looking up a replacement in\nthe latest Digi-key Cat and found it not listed 8(. The closes I could\nfigure was a 9 pin SIP as TDA1520BU. Anyone got any Ideas? \n\n\tI thought, hey I can rin a PSPICE simulation using 741 opamp \nmodels. Yea, great! It worked. But, I guess the 741 wasn't made for High\npower amps. As a result, I got a Voltage gain of ~15mV/V. Worse than\nI started with 8(... Does anyone have a PSPICE CKT file with cheap yet\ngood gain? How about some models for some of the chips listed in this \nE-mail? Any ASCII Chip info you guys can send me? \n\nI'm open to Suggestions/Ideas/Comments/Help!\nPlease E-mail since I have little time to search the News... \nAnd I'll post if there's and interest!\nJohn\n\n", "I've had similar problems downloading using WinCIM, I discovered that if I\ndisabled data compression on my modem, it works fine.\n", "you Need gs252ini.zip and 24*.zip, and 25*.zip font files. You can get these\nfrom wuarchive.wustl.edu /mirrors/msdos/postscript. I also advice you to get\ngs252gui.zip from CICA. It is a nice interface for ghostscript. Ghostscript is\nvery user unfriendly. This interface makes it user friendly. For using this\ninterface you have to get vbrun100.dll (from risc.ua.edu /pub/network/misc)\ncopy this to your windows directory. Copy gui executables and other files to\nyour ghostscript directory. And anter the line below to your autoexec.bat.\n\nSET GS_LIB=C:\\\n\nNow you are ready to use it. Enjoy it.\n\n\n\n-\n-\n-- \n____________________________________________________________________________\n****************************************************************************", "I also suffer from these video \"artefacts\". My configuration is a\nCentris 610, 4/160, 1MB VRAM with a NEC 4FG. It only happens at\n832x624, in 8bit colour with virtual memory off during scrolling. This\noccurs when the VRAM SIMMS are installed as well as removed.\nIt seems that the 610 does not like 832x624.\n\nDoes anyone *not* have these problems in the above mentioned\nconditions?\n\n-Gersham Meharg\nSFU Canada.\n", "Maw Ying yuan wrote \u0019\n .................................\n...From: yuan@wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu (Maw Ying Yuan)\n...Subject: Replacement for Program Manager and File Manager?\n...Message-ID: \n...Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 06:44:04 GMT\n...\n...replacements for Win3.1's Program Manager and File Manager?\n...yuan@wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu :)\n .................................\n Hi,\n I've been using Plannet Crafter's \"Plug-in\" for Program Manager.\n Its listed in most BBS'es as PLUGIN13. Its an add-on which gives\n some needed features to Progman; such as the ability to better\n manage your groups, change your cursor and icons on the fly,\n constant status of RAM and resources, \"Quick-menu\" (a drop-down\n menu of DOS commands or app launcher), plus some other neat stuff.\n Used it, liked it, and even reg'd it .\n\n If you can't find it anywhere, let me know and I'll zip it up and\n mail it to you (shareware version, of course ...)\n\nAloha...\n---\n .. .es .. All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.\n---\n . SLMR 2.1a . \n ", "ITEM: Klipsch Forte 2 Speakers\nCONDITION: Mint\nAGE: 6 months old\n\nPRICE: $1000/pair (retail: $1400/pair)\n\nThese speakers are in perfect condition and used only in audiophile system.\nThey are floor standing and come with all the original packagaing and\nliterature. They are also still under warranty. If you are interested or\nhave any questions, please feel free to e-mail (pc1o@andrew.cmu.edu) or call\nme at home.", "Does anyone know of a program or utility that will\nenable the Mac to read Unix (i.e. NeXT) 3.5 in. disks?", "I think you can get that at most head shops. I'm not kidding... although\nit seems more appropriate for them to be selling Simple Green.", "I am seeking some alternate solutions on how to turn a Postscript Type 1 or\nTrueType font outline into polygons that can be subsequently scan converted\nby a 3D scanline renderer. \n\nI have been studying the problem of font conversion for a few years but\nhave never had the need to implement such a system. Well, I now have the\nopportunity to write some font rendering software so I would like to have\nsome of my questions answered before I jump into the deep end.\n\nThe main problem I face is how to use the even/odd or non-winding rules to\nturn the outlines into a single outline polygon (my renderer can handle\ncomplex polygons so there is no need to reduce the polygons to simple\npolygons). For example, in the letter \"O\" there are two outlines:\n\n\t1) The outside outline which is clockwise (TrueType font)\n\t2) The inside outline which is counterclockwise.\n\nOne common solution used by a number of rendering packages is to simply \nconnect the inner outline to the outer outline at the point where the\ntwo outlines are closest. This is equivalent to descibing a \"polygon with\nholes\". The renderer will then make the appropriate hole since the interior\npolygon edges are in the opposite direction to the outside edges.\n\nI do not want to use this simplistic system since:\n\n\t1) It will not handle all outline fonts properly (it is not a simple\n\t\tmatter to connect the outer outline to the inner outline for\n\t\tsome fancy fonts).\n\t2) It does not properly handle the even/odd or non-winding rules.\n\nFrom my research over the years the proper solution is to use a trapezoid\ndecomposition algorithm to scan convert the outlines into trapezoids (as\nis done by the Postscript and TrueType font rasterizers). These trapezoidal\npolygons can then be easily and properly rendered by the 3D scanline renderer.\n\nMy question is: are there any better solutions to turning the outlines into\npolgyons other than the trapezoid decomposer? I am not fond of this solution\nsince it creates excess number of polygons.\n\nAnother question, for those in the know: what is the best algorithm to create\nbevelled and/or offset curves for font outlines? I have a dozen papers on these\nsubjects but I can't tell which method is the best to implement.\n\nThanks for any pointers.\n\n--> Rob Lansdale\n", "\nThanks for the info.\n\n\nHow much more does the F550iW cost?\n", "I am looking for recommendations/experiences of bringing Macintosh CPUs\nonto Token-Ring Nets. Can someone point me in the right direction for\ninformation. ", "\nIf he says he knows for a fact, what more do you have to gain if he gives\nhis word? Do you think he's lying right now?\n\n\nAnyway, how about this: I give you my word, without naming sources, that IBM\npaid companies to write applications for OS/2. Satisfied?", "can someone tell me where i could find ansi or ascii pics?\n\nI already found the gopher ascii pics.\n\n\nthanks\n\nRichard Mancsuo", "From article <1rc07h$ern@olivea.ATC.Olivetti.Com>, by manu@oas.olivetti.com (Manu Das):\n\nThe window is probobly on top but the lower windows are drawing over it.\nTry using WS_CLIPSIBLING to keep the lower siblings from drawing on the\ntop sibling's space.\n-- ", "I have a small Windows program which I can not get to work; \nThe program looks vaguely like this:\n\n=============================================\nchar f1[80];\n\nint WinMain(...\n{\n lstrcpy ((LPSTR)f1, \"Hello\");\n ...\n}\n\nlong far pascal WndProc(...\n{\n lstrcpy ((LPSTR)f1, \"Hello\");\n ...\n}\n\n============================================= \nI am using large model under Windows 3.1; after linking without\nerrors, the RC program said\n\nSorting preload segments and resources into fast-load section\nCopying segment 1 (53679 bytes)\nRC : fatal error RW1031: Segment 1 and its\n relocation information is too large for load\n optimization. Make the segment LOADONCALL or\n rerun RC using the -K switch if the segment must\n be preloaded.\n\nUsing the -K switch seems to interfere with the proper function of\nthe second lstrcpy call... can anybody explain what is going on and/or\nhow to fix it?\n", "\nOf course its possible, I get 1024x768 on my Centris 650. All you need is\na correctly wired video cable.\n\nGary\n\n-- ", "Panasonic KX-T3000H, Combo black cordless & speaker phone all in one.\n new- $160, now- $100 + shipping OBO.\n \nCurtis Mathes VHS VCR Remote included and it works with universal remotes.\n Works great but I replaced it with a Stereo VCR.\n paid $300 years ago, will sell for $125 delivered OBO.\n \nRadio Shack stereo amp. 2 inputs, tone, and left and right volume. Speakers\n not included. $20 plus shipping.\n \nIf you are interested in either of the above mail me at\n radley@gibbs.out.unc.edu.", "Newsgroup: sci.electronics\nFrom: martin.vuille@synapse.org\nSubject: PCMCIA\n\nDoes anyone know who to contact to obtain a copy of the PCMCIA standard?\n\nThanks\nMV", "\n\n\nNCD just announced a new generation of PC-Xview. They\nchanged the name a little though and I can't remember\nexactly... PC-Xsomething.", "\n\n\n Better yet, instead of thrashing around on the DOS file system, take\nit a step further. Write yourself a minimal \"file system\" program that\nis used to create/delete files, en/decrypt them to ramdisk, list a\ndirectory. Put the util, password protected, on a floppy.\n\n The catch is that the storage space used by this util is NOT part\nof the DOS file system. Instead, defrag your disk, thus packing all\nallocated clusters into clusters 0-n. Then use the back end of the\npartition to hold your 'stealth' file system. Or, leave a small 2nd\npartition on the disk that is not assigned to DOS. Another approach\nmight be to use a directory that contains a set of invariant files (DOS\nsystem files, for instance). Due to DOS allocating a minimum storage \nunit of a \"cluster\" there is unused physical space on the disk between\nthe tail end of each file and the end of its associated cluster. These\ndead spaces could be concatenated and used to hold your stealth file\nsystem.\n\n Now you have a situation where no encrypted data \"appears\" on your\ndisk at all :-). ", "I want to create a single-line Text widget for entering a small amount of text.\n\nI want it to be of fixed width, but have a horizontal scrollbar that scrolls\nautomatically when the user types in order to keep the insertion point\nvisible.\n\nIn trying to do this I have two problems:\n\n - The addition of the horizontal scrollbar does not make the text widget\n taller, but instead it seems to cover part of the text.\n\n - The scrollbar does not scroll automatically as the user types in text\n in order to keep the insertion point visible.\n\nAny help is appreciated.\n\nMike\n", "<>\n<>Does anyone out there know how to change the maximum request size for\n<>a server \n<\n .\n", "\t\n\tFirst of all, without wanting to sound nagging and bossy, yes it is\na trivial answer and that's perfectly fine ( otherwise how is one supposed\nto move up to the complicated and challenging questions, we net readers so\nmuch enjoy :) ?), and the massive crossposting of your article was not\n justified...\nPlease refer to appropriate newsgroups next time (by the way c.o.msw.misc is\nOK :) ). Now as far as your problem is concerned: try playing around with\nthe settings in the 'Fonts...\" dialog box under the window control menu (that\nlittle square at the top left corner of the window..). \n\n", "...\n\nIt's an interesting idea, but the worst-case data patterns developed to\ntest magnetic media are totally different than the patterns used to detect\ncommon faults in memory chips.\n", "I have two questions (well probably more...) about how Expose & Configure\nevents are handled.\n\nI have an appl. which uses 1 window to draw in. Since I give the user the\ncapability of scaling and zooming as well as allowing the window to be\nresized, I made a translation table for the Expose & Configure events.\nThe Expose event calls my redraw method while the Configure event\ncalls my rescale method. The rescale method invokes a \"fake\" Expose\nevent (actually just calls the redraw w/ an appropriate Expose struct)\nto draw the data.\n\nQuest 1.\nWhen the appl. is compiled/linked w/ R4 (running in either R4 or R5 env.)\nI get multiple (>4) redraws when the window gets uncovered or the size\nis changed. I assume I'm getting cascading events. Is that right?\nAny suggestions as to how to handle/trap events in a better way?\n\nQuest 2.\nWhen the appl. is compiled/linked w/ R5 I get no Expose events\nwhatsoever. Do events and/or translation tables act differently in R5?\n\nThanks in advance\n\nSteve\n-- \n==========================================================================================", "\nNO! I'm running both at home. Ok, to the cumpter is turned off right now but I\ndid boot BSD/386 from an IDE drive, most of the system is on a SCSI drive...\n\nI'm using an Adaptec 1542B and a no-name el-cheapo IDE card.\n\n\nGuy", "I think you are too optimistic! PostScript is a very big language and\nso the fig format can not be able to be an interpreter of ANY arbitrary\nps code. The only program I know to manipulate PostScript files is\nIslandDraw.\nI for myself use xfig and include the PostScript files (converted to\nepsi format). Small changes then are possible (erasing some letters,\nadding text and so on).\nReinhard\n", "\n\nI would expect the EISA board to be more than twice as fast as the ISA\nboard. Not only are you moving data on a path twice as wide (at\nleast), but there is a difference in the number of clocks required for\nbus transactions between the two busses. Most ISA boards require\nmultiple clocks per bus transaction -- typically this is around 3-4.\nEISA boards are suppose to be able to 'burst' at a 1:1 rate, so I\nwould expect performance to be 6x-8x that of an ISA card. \n\nSo I guess, for me, the question is unanswered still. I would expect\nhim to be able to see a 6x speed difference, and he apparently does\nnot. \n\n-- \n\"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live\n in the real world.\" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden", "\nOne usual suggestion is to put everything into your every-time shell rc-file\ninstead of your login-only one, which is fair enough if you only have a few\nusers who know what they're doing. If you have several hundred users who do\nwhat the books tell them, though, then it's confusing at best. Another is to\nhave your xterms run login shells, but that still leaves the window manager\nand the things that get started from its menus with the wrong environment.\n\nOur alternative is that instead of having xdm run the client startup scripts,\nit runs the user's favourite shell as a login shell, and has *it* then run the\nrest of the startup scripts. That way the user's usual environment gets set\nup as normal and inherited by everything. You can find an almost-current copy\nof our scripts and things in contrib/edinburgh-environment.tar.Z, available\nfrom the usual places. ", "\nMy CD300 (external, just arrived) has 2-8 plus Cinderella & Game Demo.\n\n\n--Pinghua", "\n\n\n\nThis should be in the FAQ, it only get asked about twenty times a month\n\nThere is *NO*, that's right, *NO* telnet access to Compuserve, no ftp access,\nno gopher access....no Internet services except e-mail.\n\nYou can telnet to hermes.merit.edu, but that routes you through Sprintnet,\nwhich is horrendously expensive. ", "\nWhat ever happened to the idea that the Customer is ALWAYS right?\n\n-- Joe", "G'day all!\n\nDoes anyone know anything about front end for POVRay (X11 version)?\nI mean are there things like user friendly modeller for POVRay, or any\nmodellers which will let me design a scene and produce a file which POVRay\ncan then read?\nCheers,\nTomek\n\n+------------------------------------------------------+\n+------------------------------------------------------+\n", "I am looking for comments on Xtree (Pro ??) for Windows. I am \nthinking of buying the product but I have not even seen it yet.\n\nThank you...\n\n Shane Holland\n\n holland@ug.cs.dal.ca\n\n\n-- \n", "\n\tTrue (especially for electrolytic capacitors at high temperature).\n\n\n\n\tLow power quartz oscillators are usually 32 kHz (and THESE\nhave significant temperature drifts, which one doesn't often notice\nwhile wearing the watch on one's wrist). Low temperature sensitivity\nis available in other crystal types, which unfortunately\nare larger and higher frequency (1 MHz or so) and take more\nbattery power. \n\n\tProgrammable timers might be less accurate, but they\nare more power-stingy than suitable crystal oscillators.", "Can someone please give me a couple names of anonymous\nftp sites that cater to graphics. I am looking for info/\nsources/images for building a ray tracer. \n\n\nThanks,", "Western Digital 1-800-832-4778.....Sam", "Hello, I am looking for commercial software packages for professional\nfashion designers. Any recommendation and pointers are greatly appreciated.\nPlease e-mail me, if you may. Thanks a million. -- Ge\n", "Has anybody compiled VOGL-graphics library\nfor IBM-PC? I need to call it from MS-Fortran\nbut don't have MS-C to compile the sources.\n\nThanks for any help...\n", "My boss is considering the purchase of a Powerbook or Duo. He is leaning\ntowards a 180, because of the math coprocessor (for Mathematica), but would\nget a Duo if he could find a Mini-Dock with a coprocessor. Have any\nthird-parties announced such a beast?\n", "\n\nRISC used to mean \"Reduced Instruction Set Computer\", true. They\nstill use the same acronym, but only to be familiar. What RISC really\nmeans is a recently-designed CPU. :-)\n\nIn general, most RISC CPUs are like this:\n\n A large number (32 or more) of general-purpose registers\n A fixed instruction size, usually 32 bits\n An instruction may make only one memory reference\n Memory references must be aligned\n There are delayed branches (branch after the next instruction) or\na target prediction bit (probably will/won't branch)\n Instructions may complete out of order relative to the instruction\nstream", "G'day all,\n\nCan anybody point me at a utility which will read/convert/crop/whatnot/\ndisplay HDF image files ? I've had a look at the HDF stuff under NCSA \nand it must take an award for odd directory structure, strange storage\napproaches and minimalist documentation :-)\n\nPart of the problem is that I want to look at large (5MB+) HDF files and\ncrop out a section. Ideally I would like a hdftoppm type of utility, from\nwhich I can then use the PBMplus stuff quite merrily. I can convert the cropped\npart into another format for viewing/animation.\n\nOtherwise, can someone please explain how to set up the NCSA Visualisation S/W\nfor HDF (3.2.r5 or 3.3beta) and do the above cropping/etc. This is for\nSuns with SunOS 4.1.2.\n\nAny help GREATLY appreciated. Ta muchly !\n\nCheers,\n\tMarkus\n\n-- \nMarkus Buchhorn, Parallel Computing Research Facility\nemail = markus@octavia.anu.edu.au\nAustralian National University, Canberra, 0200 , Australia.\n[International = +61 6, Australia = 06] [Phone = 2492930, Fax = 2490747]", "Well, the title says it all...I'm looking to buy cheap used\nTG-16 Gmaes which have 2 or more player support (Simultaneous)....\n\nPlease email me all offers with a price...", "Looking for a TIFF/EPS of a DNA Helix. E-mail any auggestions, please.\n\n\n", " \nPhototransistor-> X100 -> X100 -> NE567\nwith 330Kohm Limiter \nfeedback to base \nto control operating point (I expect this really hurts Noise Figure! Any\ncomments from Phototransistor experts?)\n\nWe intended to use this atop a stepper motor, to provide headings to the\nbeacons. The plan was to have 3 or 4 beacons, of different frequencies, in \neach room, and tell the 567 what frequency to phase-lock to. We did not do so.\nOne challenge was that the available stepper had 8 degree steps!\nKnowing the headings to each beacon, we would have used the surveyor \ntechnique of RESECTION to determine robot location. (No, I ain't going to\nexplain resection over the net.)", "\n\n\n\nI have had the exact same problem, but have not figured out a solution.\nI run a PC with Linux (free-unix) with X11r5 and OpenWindows 3.0, I\nwould appreciate any solutions.\n\newz\n-- ", "I have the following Macintosh software for sale. Email me if interested, or\nfor complete descriptions. All prices are negotiable, but first offer at\nasking price gets it.\n\nPrices include First Class, 2-day shipping!!! (Outside U.S. extra)\n\nOIDS $20\nExpert Color Paint $20\nRoboSport $25\nHarpoon $25\nStratego $30 (Accolade version, authorized by Milton Bradley)\nOne-on-One (Dr. J/Bird) $15 (Original version, 68000 machines only)\nMacFoxes $25 (Adult game)\nStrip Poker & Blackjack $25 (Adult game)\n\n-Justin (jslauson@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu)\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n \"If builders built buildings like I write programs, then the first woodpecker\n that came along would destroy civilization.\"", "Okay, okay, Norman himself isn't actually for sale. BUT:\n\nI have two Saturday Even Post's, both of which have Norman Rockwell\nillustrations on the front cover.\n\nOctober 29, 1960 -- with candidate Kennedy on campaign\n -- has, obviously, a Norman Rockwell of Kennedy on the cover\n\nNovember 5, 1960 -- with candidate Nixon on campaign\n -- And here we have Nixon. He's not a crook...\n\nThese are both in very good condition.\nLet me know if you're interested, and to what tune. ($$)\n", "\nTake a look over in alt.folklore.urban. There is a thread about subliminal\nmessages on TV. The fact that subliminal messages don't work aside, an image\ncan't be flashed on a TV screen fast enough to not be noticed.\n-- \n Bob Billson, KC2WZ | internet: bob@kc2wz.bubble.org\n $nail: 21 Bates Way, Westfield, NJ 07090 | uucp: ...!uunet!kc2wz!bob", "Yes, but what if my monitor only has 3 BNC's on it, and is expecting\nto get a composite sync signal on the \"green\"? There ought to be a\nlittle black box that takes the VGA signalling (which has horiz, vert,\nand composite sync on different pins, plus the R, G, and B pairs) and\nmerges the green and composite sync together in the output. It's all\n1V analog, as far as I know. I can build this with op-amps but I don't\nthink I can get the shielding done well enough to handle the frequencies\ninvolved without lots of shadows and junk on the screen.\n\nDoes anyone know of a VGA->RGB(composite sync on green) converter?", "\nWhat about the common joystick found in all computer shops?", "\n\n\nWindows: The recent reviews have all shown that the P9000 cards are\n\t significantly faster doing Windows than the ATI card.\n\nVGA:\t The recent reviews have all shown that the P9000 cards they looked\n\t at are significantly slower doing VGA than the ATI card. About\n\t 1/2 the speed, as I recall.\n\n\t The big question for me is the Orchid V9000 card. Each of the \n\t P9000 cards tested so far has had the W5186 to do VGA. Orchid\n\t is the only one I know about (I don't know about AMI) that uses\n\t the W5286 for VGA. That is reportedly faster.\n\t \n\t I would like to know whether the Orchid card can do VGA as fast as\n\t the ATI card. If so, it would appear to be a formidable competitor.\n\t (Advertised prices are about the same for the two cards.)\n\nSomeone in this group posted a little while back that they were getting an\nOrchid V9000 card -- has that card arrived? What do the benchmarks look\nlike?\n\nAlso, is the AMI P9000-based card real? What does it use for VGA? Speed?", "\n\n\n\n\tI'd like to see this info as well. As for wavelength, I think\nyou're primarily going to find two - 880 nM +/- a bit, and/or 950 nM\n+/- a bit. Usually it is about 10 nM either way. The two most common\nI have seen were 880 and 950 but I have also heard of 890 and 940.\nI'm not sure that the 10 nM one way or another will make a great deal of\ndifference.\n\n\tAnother suggestion - find a brand of TV that uses an IR remote,\nand go look at the SAMS photofact for it. You can often find some very\ndetailed schematics and parts list for not only the receiver but the\ntransmitter as well, including carrier freq. specs. and tone decoding\nspecs. if the system uses that.", "A fair number of brave souls who upgraded their SI clock oscillator have\nshared their experiences for this poll. Please send a brief message detailing\nyour experiences with the procedure. Top speed attained, CPU rated speed,\nadd on cards and adapters, heat sinks, hour of usage per day, floppy disk\nfunctionality with 800 and 1.4 m floppies are especially requested.\n\nI will be summarizing in the next two days, so please add to the network\nknowledge base if you have done the clock upgrade and haven't answered this\npoll. Thanks.", "\nAnother source: There's a poly blitter for mode y (mode x in 320x200)\nat sunee.uwaterloo.ca. Also there is REND386, an even faster 3D\nrenderer with VR extensions.\n\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------", "I have a 486DX-33 computer with a SoundBlaster 1.0 card. I'm running\nMicrosoft Windows v3.1. I have the SB driver set up properly to play\nnormal sounds (.WAV files, etc.). I want to play midi files through the\nMedia Player that is included with windows. I know I have to set up the\npatch maps or something in the MIDI-Mapper in the Control Panel. I KNOW\nNOTHING ABOUT MIDI. (This is to be the way I'll get my feet wet.)\n\nHow do I set up Windows so that I can play MIDI files?\n\n ", "Fellow Info-junkies,\n I have an extra CCI #27 (Real Time Programming/Embedded Sensors &\nStorage) and an extra CCI #32 (Voice control of telescope, among other\narticles). No labels. No torn, cut-up, or missing pages.\n\nWould like to trade for CCI # 26, or CCI # 23, or CCI # 19 in same\ncondition (Labels OK).\n\nI mail mine you mail yours mutual trust kinda thang OK?\nYou don't actually throw them away, do you?", "The Quadra 700 goes thru extensive initalize routines of its hardware,\nread's PRAM, obtains all info from last session including the volume\nsetting, and then executes the sound procedure for the startup sound, and\nwait's on the SCSI controller to respond to the boot up code.\n\n\nIf the DRAM produces an error, or a registers cannot be read from a device,\nor the device corrupts that address/data or control paths, then if it is\npossible, the firmware branchs to another sound routine that produces the \n'sad mac' sound.\n\n\nThis is a general breifing of the start up procedure of a typical mac.\nIf you cannot control the volume of the quadra, even at boot up, then i feel\nthere is something incorrect with the logic board. \n\nMy Quadra 700 does not show the problems you are having.\n", "\nYes.\n\n\nAcyclovir started in the first 1-2 days probably speeds recovery and\ndecreases the formation of new pox.", "I require BGI drivers for Super VGA Displays and Super XVGA Displays. Does \nanyone know where I could obtain the relevant drivers ? (FTP sites ??)\n\n\tRegards\n", "Hello,\n\n\n\n\tI just bought a copy. I can't disagree that it is a very good\nbook. But unfortunately I was looking for the same graphics feature\ndescribed in this book but _NOT_ in 640x480x16 or 320x200x256 mode. It\nis easy to accomodate all the pixel \"descriptor\" (or color attributes)\nin those modes into A0000-AFFFFF, but not in 640x480x256(which is what\nI am interested in). I haven't finish the book but I affraid the\nauthor didn't talk much about this mode(or other SVGA modes). If\nanyone out there know any good book dealing with fast SVGA graphics\nmanupulation(scrolling, repainting, all other good stuff..) please\nsend me mail. Programming guide to SVGA card is also welcome.\n\n\tThanks in advance.\n\n\n \n************************************************************************\n* Tiang T. Foo *\n*\t\t tiang@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu \t\t *\n************************************************************************ ", "I installed Windows for Workgroups on my network and I'm having problems \nmapping drives in the file-manager.\n\nSituation:\nIf I put LASTDRIVE = Z in my config.sys, NETX will run but I can't access\ndrive f: to log in to Novell. \nIf I don't put LASTDRIVE = Z in my config.sys I can't access other W4WG \ndrives from the file-manager.\n\nIt seems that there should be a way to make NETX work with the LASTDRIVE = \nstatement in my Config.Sys.\n\nI would appreciate any help. It's probably an easy problem that all you \nWindows guru's solved many many moons ago...\n\nThanks,\nTom Bilan\n", "\n\nWell, I'm not sure I'd use this to process a guitar but there was a audio\nfilter DSP construction article in the Sept 92 issue of QST magazine (Ham Radio\noriented). The DSP is available in kit form for about $120.\n\nThis particular DSP filter was targetted toward processing audio to remove\nnoise (static). I built it and it really works well. The source code is\navailable too. It makes a noisy audio signal much easier to hear. Note that\nthis is for communication applications and is not \"high fidelity\".\n\n\n", "The COSE announcement specifies that Motif will become the common\nGUI. But what does this mean exactly? \n\n- Do they mean that all \"COSE-complient\" apps will have the Motif\n look and feel?\n\n- Do they mean that all \"COSE-complient\" apps will use the Motif\n toolkit API?\n\n- Do they mean both of the above?\n\n- Is it possible that there will be a Motif-API complient toolkit with\n an OpenLook Look & Feel?\n\n- How about an OLIT/XView/OI/Interviews API toolkit with a Motif L & F?\n (I know OI already does this, but will this be considered COSE-complient?)\n\n- Will there be more than one \"standard\" toolkit API or L & F supported?\n\n- How does using ToolTalk fit in with Motif?\n\nThis is my attempt to start a discussion in order to pull as much \nknowledge about these questions off the net... Feel free to e-mail\nor followup.\n\n-- \n--------------------------------------------------------------------\n-- Gil Tene\t\t\t\"Some days it just doesn't pay -\n-- devil@imp.HellNet.org\t to go to sleep in the morning.\" -\n-- devil@diablery.10A.com \t\t\t\t\t -", "Newsgroups: misc.wanted,misc.forsale,misc.forsale.computers,\nSubject: Wanted: Manual of Polaroid Palette 72-10; $10\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Clemson University, Clemson SC\n\nI need the Polaroid Palette Model 72-10 (or similar model) manual.\nI am willing to pay $10 for it, plus the shipping charge via USPS 3rd\nclass.\n\nI don't need the original one, photo-copyed manual will just fine for\nme. If you have the manual, please help me out.\n\nThanks in advance.\n\nEric (803)6548817", "\nForgot to mention that the above mentioned Quantum is a SCSI\ndrive.", "If anyone has Joe Venuti's record \"Fiddle on Fire\" and would like to sell it\nplease contact me.\n", "\n Steve> Folks,\n\n Steve> I'm looking for a Public Domain X-Y plotting package for X.\n Steve> I need basic capabilities (axes, labels, log and linear, &c).\n Steve> It's hard to imagine that someone has not put such a thing\n Steve> together, so I'm hoping to avoid reinventing the wheel.\n\n Steve> Thanks for any leads!\n\n Steve> Steve Frysinger\n\nYour might take a look a PLPLOT. Version 4.99c (actually beta v5.0)\ncan be found anonymous ftp from hagar.ph.utexas.edu, in the pub/plplot \ndirectory. \n\n--Mark\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n\n From the README file of version 4.99c:\n\n This is the PLPLOT distribution. PLPLOT is a scientific plotting package for\n many systems, small (micro) and large (super) alike. Despite its small size\n and quickness, it has enough power to satisfy most users, including: standard\n x-y plots, semilog plots, log-log plots, contour plots, 3D plots, mesh plots,\n bar charts and pie charts. Multiple graphs (of the same or different sizes)\n may be placed on a single page with multiple lines in each graph. Different\n line styles, widths and colors are supported. A virtually infinite number of\n distinct area fill patterns may be used. There are almost 1000 characters in\n the extended character set. This includes four different fonts, the Greek\n alphabet and a host of mathematical, musical, and other symbols. The fonts\n can be scaled to any size for various effects. Many different output device\n drivers are available (system dependent), including a portable metafile\n format and renderer.\n\n The PLPLOT package is freely distributable, but NOT in the public domain.\n The PLPLOT source code, except header files and those files explicitly\n granting permission, may not be used in a commercial software package without\n consent of the authors. You are allowed and encouraged to include the PLPLOT\n object library and header files in a commercial package provided that: (1) it\n is explicitly and prominently stated that the PLPLOT library is freely\n available, and (2) the full copyrights on the PLPLOT package be displayed\n somewhere in the documentation for the package.\n\n We welcome suggestions on how to improve this code, especially in the form of\n user-contributed enhancements or bug fixes. If PLPLOT is used in any\n published papers, please include an acknowledgment or citation of our work,\n which will help us to continue improving PLPLOT. Also, please remember that\n as PLPLOT is not a commercial product, we cannot be expected to offer the\n kind of support that a commercial product may. There is great interest\n in extending PLPLOT and fixing bugs, but the principal authors can only\n afford to work on it part time. Improvements will necessarily focus on\n those which help us get our work done.\n\n PLPLOT is written in C, enabling it to run on many platforms practically\n without modification. Fortran programs may use it transparently; stub\n routines are provided to handle the C<->Fortran interface without any\n modification of the user program. C programs are required to include the\n header file \"plplot.h\"; see the documentation for more details.\n\n The main documentation for PLPLOT is in the doc/ directory in the form of\n several TeX files; please consult this for additional information ('latex\n plotdoc'). Unfortunately documentation tends to lag actual improvements to\n the code, so don't be surprised if some known features are not explained\n there. Consult 'Changes.log' to see a list of recent changes. \n\n At present, PLPLOT is known to work on the following systems:\n\n\t Unix:\tSunOS\n\t\t A/IX \n\t\t HP-UX\n\t\t Unicos\n\t\t DG/UX\n\t\t Ultrix\n\t\t SysV\n\t\t Linux\n\n\t Amiga/Exec\n\t MS-DOS\n\t OS/2\n\t NeXT\n\n For more information on how to get or use PLPLOT on your system, see:\n - appendices to the PLPLOT manual\n - system-specific documentation in the appropriate sys/ directory.\n\n To become a subscriber to the PLPLOT mailing list, send a request to\n plplot-request@dino.ph.utexas.edu.\n\n CREDITS\n -------\n\n PLPLOT is the result of the effort of many people, so it is impractical to\n list all the contributors. Those currently supporting and otherwise\n responsible for the package in its present form include:\n\n Maurice LeBrun\n Please send all comments, flames, patches, etc, to me. I am responsible for\n all the PLPLOT kernel development as well as most of the work on the\n metafile, xwindow, xterm, postscript, tektronix, and Amiga drivers.\n\n EMAIL\tmjl@fusion.ph.utexas.edu \n USMAIL\tDr. Maurice LeBrun\n\t Institute for Fusion Studies\n\t University of Texas\n\tAustin, TX 78712\n\n\nGeoff Furnish\nPlease send questions regarding the MS-DOS and OS/2 drivers to Geoff.\n\nEMAIL\tfurnish@fusion.ph.utexas.edu\nUSMAIL\tGeoff Furnish\n\tInstitute for Fusion Studies\n\tUniversity of Texas\n\tAustin, TX 78712\n\n\nTony Richardson\nCreator of PLPLOT 2.6b, 3.0\nPlease send questions regarding installation of PLPLOT on the NeXT to Tony.\n\nEMAIL amr@egr.duke.edu", "Has anybody made a converter from irit's .irt or .dat format to\n .pov format ?\n\nThanks!\n", "I am selling an AT&T XT compatible. It comes with a green screen CGA monitor,\n360k 5.25\" Floppy Drive, and a 20 Megabyte Hard Drive.\n\nYou would think it was brand new from the condition it's in.\n\nAsking price is $150 + Shipping.", "\nHmmmmm you know this happened to me also.\nI am not sure what caused it. I think there might have been\na system error and dumped windows. I came back and all was well\nexcept no groups. Program Manager was EMPTY. All the .grp files were\nin the directory. I had to remake the groups with the new and group\nselection. ALL THE ICONS AND FILES INSIDE THE GROUPS WERE STILL THERE\nAND WORKING FINE. Just the groups had gone out of program manager.\n\nStrange !!!!\nC-ya..... /\\/\\artin\n", "I've recently got hold of a PC with an S3 card in it, and I'd like to do some\nC programming with it, are there any libraries out there that will let me\naccess the high resolution modes available via Borland Turbo C?", "Anyone have any recommendations/warnings about the Texel 5024 CD-ROM drive\nor about any of its competitors? I'm looking for a CD-ROM drive for\nconnection to a PAS-16 SCSI port.", "I want to buy a LCII ( yes LCII not LCIII). None of the dealer seems to have\nthem anymore. Does anybody know where I can buy this beast?. \nI wanted 4/80 with standard keyboard package.\n\nPlease let me know.\nthanx\n\n--Aravind S. Melligeri\t\t\t\t\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nSystem Administrator\t\t |\t\t asm@mevax.psu.edu\nDept. of Mechanical Engg.\t |\t\t off: 814-865-2062\nPennsylvania State Univ. \t |\t\t res: 814-867-5922\t", "I read in MacWeek that some developers are getting NuBUS cards from apple\nwith pre-release PowerPC chips on them. Does this mean that when the\nchip is released, those of us with old apples will be able to take\nadvantage of the PowerPC RISC technology just by inserting a card?\n\nI don't know anything about hardware, so can someone tell me how much of\na cludge this would be?", "We no longer use quarter inch tape for backups, and have a case of\nunopened DC6150s for sale. I'll sell the lot, or in boxes of 5 tapes\neach.\n", "****UNIX****UNIX****UNIX****UNIX****UNIX****UNIX****UNIX****\n\nFORSALE:\n\n ESIX UNIX System V Release 4 - NEW!\n 2 user license system - $400\n Unlimited user license system - $450\n 2 user license system with dev kit - $500\n Unlimited user license system with dev kit - $550\n\nThe above systems include all of the floppies or tapes and\ninstalation manuals. They are new and have never been\ninstalled before. Market value for the above systems is\nabout $1500 US! If you are interested, please contact me\nat 416-233-6038.\n\n\n\n Thanks,\n ...Mike\n mike.budlanski@canrem.com", "\nWhat does this have to do with my original question??? I previously\nstated that I did an XCopyArea of the depth-8 pixmap to the screen\njust to make sure that my image had data, and it did. This is NOT\na problem with expose events, it has to do with XCopyPlane not\nworking!!!\n\nDoes anyone have a code fragment they could send demonstrating that\nXCopyPlane works??? This would be very helpful!\n\nThanks!\n\n ----------------------------------------------------------------\n Nancie P. Marin NET: nancie@neko.css.gov\n ENSCO Inc. MAIL: 445 Pineda Ct. Melbourne, Fl. 32940\n (407)254-4122 FAX: (407)254-3293", "I have 2 OMTI 3527 SCSI adapters for sale. These make an ST-506 RLL drive\nlook like a SCSI disk drive. Each adapter will support two RLL drives. I\nhave used this model OMTI adapter with my Amiga A500 and a C-Ltd SCSI host\nadapter without problems. I'm selling these because I got them about the\nsame time I decided to sell instead of expand my Amiga so I have never even\nused them. I can't guarantee they will work with every SCSI host adapter.\n\nThey are essentially new in box. I paid $150/ea, make me an offer.", "Here's the updated list of the stuff I still have for sale. Also, feel free to\nmake an offer. I'm asking $15 per board.\n\nCurrently known Electronic mother boards from old arcade games:\n \nGame Name Condition \t Manufacturer\n------------------------------------------------------------\n-1-\nTenYard Fight\t\t?\t\t\tIren\nTenYard Fight\t Bad(internal short) Iren\nKangaroo\t\t? \t\tSun Electronics?\n-2-\nMr.Do Okay,but has interference ?\nGuardian\nTip Top\t\t\t?\t\t\tSega\nBank Panic\t\t?\t\t\tSega\nSanritsu\t\t?\t\t\tSega\n*Radar Scope\t\tOkay\t\t\tNintendo?\n-3-\nPoseidon ? Taito\nNinjakun Bad(needs capacitor&crystal) ?\nJass Rack ? Jamma\nDouble Dribble ?\n-6-\nZoar\t\t\tOkay\t\t\t?\nSuper Trivia\t\tBad (got fried)\t \tGreyhound Electronics\n-9-\nSlither Has error message Century II Corp.\n-10-\nMusic Trivia\t\t?\t\t\tJALECO\nSamurai Fore Groud char. disapear Taito\nPoseidon Okay Taito\n-11-\nAnt Eater\t\t?\t\t\tTago Electronics\nUp n Down\t buzzing sound\t\t?\nTutankham\t\tBad\t\t\tKonami\n \nPro Wrestling\t\tOkay\nVideo Trivia\t\t?\t\t\tGrayHound\nAsteron Belt\t\t?\t\t\tSega\n \nUnknown boards\nSega (1)\nKonami (1)\nPacific Novelty Manufacturing Inc (9)\n (if anyone has the rom numbers for these boards, please tell me)\n1 absolutely unknown board\n \n--Misc Stuff--\nSomekind of powersupply(similar to atary audio reg.) ?\nRam Card\t\t?\t\t\tMidway\nMidway Patter Board\nZ-80 Sync Buss Controller-285 (2)\nPacman Filters (16)\t?\t\t\tMidway\n50pin scsi cable(2)\n (both ends are female)\n \n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------", "For Sale:\n\t\t*********\n\n\t* (1) CGA card\n\n\t* Road & Track's Grand Prix (3.5\" disks)\n\n\t* DOS 4.01\n\n\t* Packard Bell .39 dot pitch VGA color monitor\n\n\t* 256K 2-the-max VGA card\n\n\tPlease make offers for the above merchandise. What do you \n\thave to lose? Go ahead--make an offer! Thanks.\n\n\tEmail: bitzm@columbia.dsu.edu\n\n\t\n\n", "Article 31 of alt.graphics:\nNewsgroups: alt.graphics\nPath: news.nd.edu!moliere!rmalayte\nFrom: rmalayte@moliere.helios.nd.edu (ryan malayter)\nSubject: GeoSphere images via ftp?\nMessage-ID: <1993Apr26.213648.26856@news.nd.edu>\nSender: news@news.nd.edu (USENET News System)\nOrganization: University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame\nDate: Mon, 26 Apr 1993 21:36:48 GMT\n\nDoes anyone know if a digitized version of the GeoSphere image is\navailable via ftp? For those of you who don't know, it is a composite\nphotograph of the entire earth, with cloudcover removed. I just think\nit's really cool. It was created with government funds and sattelites\nas a research project, so I would assume it's in the public domain.\n\nThanks for any info,\n\tRyan\n", "JG> After this fall, I believe IBM no longer has any rights to\nJG> view Microsoft code. After that, the only way to maintain\nJG> some sort of compatibility is to reverse-engineer. Would\nJG> you want to reverse-engineer an OLE2 application?\n\nDon't they retain Windows NT OEM status? If so, that gives them NT\nsource code, and since Windows is headed toward NT... (Win32S, Win32C)\n\n * SLMR 2.1a * --T-A+G-L-I+N-E--+M-E-A+S-U-R+I-N-G+--G-A+U-G-E--\n ", " I want to connect a very small \"home-made\" speaker\nup to the headphone jack on my macintosh LC for an experiment.\nThe dc resistance of the speaker is 1 ohm. Any ideas how I can\ndo this safely? I think I need some kind of an impedance\ntransformer or something.?\n-tony\n wayne@uva386.school.virginia.edu \n", "Looking for an amateur radio operator that needs a variable power linear\namplifier for 2-30MHz. Looks and works like new. Runs off 12v for mobile\nuse. Input: 5-10 watts Output: ~175 watts AM, ~350 watts PEP SSB.\nI need $150 out of it.\n\nIf that's too much, I also have a Tornado 100 that takes 5w in and\n100/250w out for $100.\n\nReply with your callsign, address and phone number for verification of license.\n\nPrices do NOT include shipping/packaging.", "Hi, Anybody interested in buying my Labtec speaker?\n\n\tLabtec SS-200\n\tAmplified Stereo Speaker System\n\t\t- Built in amplifier\n\t\t- 6 volt input\n\t\t- works with/without batteries\n\t\t- individual volume controls\n\t\t- treble boost switch\n\tGreat for medium quality PC's sound(adlib,soundblaster..)\n\t\t walkman\n\t\t \n\n\tfor: $15 (included shipping...)\n\n\tE-mail me... \n", "Is there a portable and convenient way to use color picture files in\nthe .xpm format to define an X pixmap in a Motif application? Any\nfunctions, pointers, tips etc. would be most welcome.\n\n--------------------\nSaad Mufti\nPersonal Library Software", "Does anyone have any information on the Polaroid Palette system. It appears to\nbe a gadget for transfering graphics images to film. Does anyone have any detail\nabout it like the maximum supported resolution or types of video input????\n\nWhat did Polaroid market them as?????\n\n\n\nFletch", "How can I obtain public information (documentation and sources)\nabout Xservers implemented with graphics processors?\n\nI am specially interested in Xservers developed for the TMS34020\nTexas Instruments graphic processor.", "I need the tool described in the subject line. Is there such a \ntool available via ftp? If so, I'd appreciate it if someone could\ne-mail me the location and pathname.\n\nThanks.\n\n-------------\nSaad Mufti\nPersonal Library Software", "I am planning to convert my Motif 1.2 app from pixel to font units\nwhich would all be set in the app's resource file instead of hard coded\nin the program.\n\nHowever, the word here is from people who tried this already that for\nsome unknown reason XmForm offsets placed in the resource file are still\ninterpreted in pixel units forcing people to code those offset font units into the program.\n\nCan somebody confirm this?", "\nvamilliron: Yes, Intel's PCI is (another) Local Bus standard, which\ncan be used for graphics, although I believe Local Buses can be used\nfor other things, too. As far as I know, though, PCI Local Bus \nwould compete with VESA Local Bus, not the VESA graphics standard, but\nothers more enlightened might be able to shed more light on this\nmatter.\n", "Hi there,\n\nwhen I run Disk First Aid on my external hard drive (Quantum LPS 240) I get the followinf\nmessage: Error -535: Missing thread record (TarID=31015; TarBlock 416)\nDisk First Aid is not able to fix this problem, Norton Utils doesn't find it at all.\nWhen I use Norton Disk editor to look at TarBlock 416 I can read something like \"DirReservedArea\"\n\nMy question: How can I get rid of this error (without reformatting of course)\n", "\n1) It fixes some problems with MicroProse games. After leaving F-15 III it\nwould, in vain, try to find a floppy in drive A:. This has been fixed. I\ndon't know what other corrections were made.\n\n2) It comes with an image of the original, in case things don't work.\n\n3) Download glb05.exe. Format a bootable floppy disk, and don't put a\nconfig.sys or autoexec.bat. Run the self extracting archive so all the files\nexplode to the disk. Run the file fsh.exe. It should be self-explanatory from\nthere.\n\nDan\n\nP.S.: I was feeling extraordinarily generous once again, so I uploaded the\nfile to ftp.cica.indiana too..\n", "I was wondering if anyone knows where I can get more information about\nthe graphics in the WingCommander series, and the RealSpace system they use.\nI think it's really awesome, and wouldn't mind being able to use similar\nfeatures in programs. Thanks in advance.\n", "\n\nHams can legally run up to 1500 watts. It is very unlikely, however,\nthat a ham would be running that kind of power from a car. Ham rigs\nfor cars put out around 100 watts. It is possible that a 100 watt\nradio would cause interference to consumer electronic 100 feet \naway. Most TVs, stereos, and VCRs have very poor RF shielding.\nIf you experience the problem frequently, it may be \ncaused by a ham, CBer, or other radio operator in a base station\nnearby. The interference may have been caused by a radio \ntransmitter used for other purposes, such as police, fire,\netc. If you heard voices over your stereo, I think you are\ncorrect in assuming that the source is an RF transmitter.\n\nIf you have frequent trouble, you may want to try the RF ferrite\nchokes available at Radio Shack. The interference is probably\nbeing picked up by your speaker wires, and those chokes can\nbe installed on the wires very easily (without cutting them).\nGood instructions are included with the chokes.\nIf that does not solve the problem, you may want to search your\nneighborhood for a radio operator. Look for antennas on the roof\nor car. Talk to him/her about your problem. There are things\na radio operator can do to reduce interference.\n\n-- ", "In comp.os.ms-windows.misc you write:\n\n\nyou might want to look in windows FAQ for this one, but here is my best\nexplanation. But I can't guarantee that I'm not way off base...\n\nThe permenant swap file is read/written to by windows by talking\ndirectly to the hard disk controller card. The controller card must\nuse the protocal set up by western digital (or something like that).\nWindows creates a file called spart.par in your windows directory that\npoints to that file. It then uses the physical information about your\ndisk to index to information in that file.\n\ncompressed disks are actually \"logical\" disks. These disks have different\ncharacteristics than the actual physical disk. Furthermore, the information\non the compressed disks must be uncompressed before it is used. (i.e it must\ngo through the decompression program that traps disk reads at the operating\nsystem level or the BIOS level). Because of this \"inbetween\" program, windows\ncannot use direct methods to read from the \"logical\" disk.\n\na permenant swap file is only there to \"reserve\" an area of the disk that\nwindows can use and to block that space from DOS. Windows would theoretically\nnot even have to access the file from DOS to use that disk space. (I don't\nknow if it does or doesn't...but it checks for it somewhere everytime you\nboot windows.)\n\na temporary swap file is just a normal DOS file that is accessed by windows\nvia DOS and the BIOS. If a disk compression program or other TSR is loaded\nthe file access must go through DOS...TSR'S (disk compression)...and BIOS in\norder to be access. (i.e. NEVER USE A TEMPORARY SWAP FILE...NEVER)\n\nmore on permenent swap files...\n\ni'm sure everyone who has an uncompressed part of their compressed hard disk\nhas seen the message \"you have selected a swap file greater than the suggested\nsize...windows will only use the size suggested...do you wan't to create this\nswap file anyway\" or something like that.\n\nwell, a friend of mine (ROBERT) called microsoft and asked them what and why.\nwhat they said is that windows checks the amount of free disk space and\ndivides that number by 2. Then it checks for the largest contiguous block\nof free disk space. Windows then suggests the smaller of the two numbers.\n\nThey also said that under absolutely no circumstances...NONE!...will windows\nuses a swap file larger than the suggested size. Well...that's what he \nsaid!\n\nI call bull@#$#. If this is true why does windows report the memory is\navailable to me if it's not going to use it?\n\nany takers?\n\nJames", "\n\nThe equation of the sphere through the 4 points (x1,y1,z1),...,(x4,y4,z4) is\n | x^2+y^2+z^2 x1^2+y1^2+z1^2 ... x4^2+y4^2+z4^2 |\n | x x1 ... x4 |\n | y y1 ... y4 | = 0\n | z z1 ... z4 |\n | 1 1 ... 1 |\nWhen this 5 by 5 determininant is expanded on its first column you get the\nequation in the form\n A(x^2+y^2+z^2) + Bx + Cy + Dz + E = 0\nIf you need the center and radius, jyst divide through by A (it cannot be\nzero if the 4 given points form a non-degenerate tetrahedron) and complete\nthe square on x, y, and z to obtain\n (x-xc)^2 + (y-yc)^2 + (z-zc)^2 = r^2", "\nGamepro magazine published pictures a few months ago and Computer Chronicles\n(a program that is syndicated to public tv stations around the nation) spent\nseveral minutes on it when it was shown at CES. It was very impressive what\nit can do in real time.\n\nJohn Munsch", "this must be a FAQ from the very first days of the 13\"RGB!!!!", "Forsale :- One Microbotics Hardframe SCSI Controller for the A2000. Make me\nan offer.\n\n----\nE. Malcolm Crosby", "I have the following system for sale.\n\n 386DX 25Mhz (DTK motherboard Intel microprocessor)\n 64k external cache\n 4 megs Ram\n 89 meg Harddrive (IDE controller)\n 1.2 meg floppy drive\n 1.44 meg floppy drive\n 2 serial ports\n 1 parallel port\n Samsung VGA monitor\n SVGA graphics card (tseng labs w/ 1meg) awesome card.\n 101 key keyboard\n 2400 baud internal modem\n\nSoftware:\n MS-DOS 6.0\n Procomm Plus ver. 2.0\n Norton Utilities ver. 4.5\n other various utilities\n\nI'm upgrading and need to sell. The system is reliable and ready to go.\nI've never had any problems with it.\n\nI'm asking $1000 o.b.o.\n\nIf you're interested, please respond by either E-mail or phone.\n\nTAE0460@zeus.tamu.edu\nor\n409-696-6043", "\nThe problem was that SunPost411Ld was not defined.", ":I tried this code yesterday. On my Sparcstation ELC it takes over\n:300 seconds to compress 22 seconds' worth of speech. This means that it\n:needs to be \"optimized\" by over a factor of 10 before it will be usable\n:in even a half-duplex mode.\n\nOuch! Thanks for trying it.\n\n:I question whether CELP is the best approach for this application. It produces\n:great compression but at the expense of tremendous CPU loads. We want\n:something that can be run on ordinary workstations or even high-end PC's\n:without DSP cards. My guess is that some other algorithm is going to be\n:a better starting point.\n\nYes. I'm not sure if my xposting to comp.speech made it to here too, but\nI've found that a low sample rate (3300 samples/sec at 8 bits per sample)\nplus the pd 'shorten' lossless sound compression code actually does get\nspeech into 14.4K with a simdgen left over. This is *definitely* worth\nworking on, folks. And shorten works in well under real-time.", "\nI've got the 6.0 spec (obviously since I quoted it in my last posting). \nMy gripe about TIFF is that it's far too complicated and nearly\ninfinitely easier to write than to read, which I think hurts your\nacceptance by anything that will need to read those images (e.g.,\npaint programs).\n\nIn a nutshell, I don't think TIFF is salvageable unless the fat is\ntrimmed significantly- and then it wouldn't be TIFF anymore. They\nkeep trying to cut it back, but it's late now. Maybe they >will< fix it,\nand change that magic number to signify the lack of compatibility. \nThat would probably make me happy.", "The product you mention is XVideo from Parallax Graphics in Santa Clara, \nCalifornia, US. You can read our product review in the Jan/Feb '93 issue\nof The X Journal. That issues focuses on Multimedia and X, in which there\nare also a number of other useful items, including an article on Video in\nan X Window. Fax our New York office at 212.274.0646 for information on \nobtaining back issues.\n\nSteve", "\nHallo POV-Renderers !\nI've got a BocaX3 Card. Now I try to get POV displaying True Colors\nwhile rendering. I've tried most of the options and UNIVESA-Driver\nbut what happens isn't correct.\nCan anybody help me ?\n", "\n\nIN ORDER to get the 15 nS response time you need, you are better off \ngoing to an ECL slicer which can run off a single +5 or -5.2 V supply, \nyou just need to bias or do some level shifting perhaps to get it in the \nrange. Check out the ECL 10K books for a simple cheap solution.", "I have the following CD's that I'd like to sell:\n\n\tM.O.D. \tGross Misconduct\n\tMetal Giants\t(at early metal compilation including Aerosmith,\t\t\t\tMountain, Blue Oyster Cult, Judus Priest, etc.)\n\tMetal Church \tBlessings in Disguise (excellent)\n\tSlayer \t\tHell Awaits\n\tAnthrax \tAmong the Living\n\tWhiplash\tPower and Pain\n\tDream Theater\tImages and Words (Pull me under)\n\tExodus\t\tFabulous Disaster (Heavy)\n\tDeath Angel \tThe Ultra Violence (hard to find)\n\nAll CD's are in excellent condition (no scratches or skips). After\nchecking several similar articles, it seems the going rate is $8. Hence\nCD's are $8.00 postage paid. Please e-mail me if you are interested,\nas I rarely read these groups. I'll ship asap after receiving cash, check\nor money order. e-mail me for my snail-mail address.", "I'm looking for some recommendations for screen capture programs. A\ncouple of issues ago, PC Mag listed as Editor's Choices both Conversion\nArtist and Hijaak for Windows. Anyone have any experience with those or\nsome others? I'm trying to get an alpha manual in the next few days, and\nI'm not making much progress with the screen shots. :^(\n \nI'm currently using DoDot and I'm about to burn it and the disks it rode\nit on. It's got a lot of freaky bugs and *oversights* that are driving\nme crazy. Tonight it decided that for any graphic it writes out as a\nTIFF file that's under a certain arbitrary size, it will swap the left\nand right sides of the picture [!]. Usually it confines itself to not\ncopying things to the clipboard (so I have to save and load pix for\nediting in paintbrush) or crashing every hour or so.\n \nThe one nice thing it has, though, is it's \"dither\" option. You'd think\nthat this would turn colors into dots, which it does if you go from, say,\n256 colors to 16 colors. But if you go from 256 or 16 colors to B&W,\nyou can set a threshold level for which colors turn to black and which\nturn to white. For me, this is useful because I can turn light grays on\nbuttons to white, and the dark grays to black, and thereby preserve the\n3d-effect on buttons and other parts of the window.\n \nIf you understood my description :^) can you tell me if another (less\nbuggy!) program can do this as well?\n \nMuch thanks for any help.\n\n---------------------------------Signature---------------------------------\nDavid DelGreco | \"What lies behind us and what lies\nTechnically a Writer | before us are tiny matters compared\ndelgreco@rahul.net | to what lies within us.\"\n | - Oliver Wendell Holmes", "\n\tSeveral ways are available -- pageview (which I think came\nwith our system, so I can't point), ghostview (with ghostscript), and\nthe new xv 3.00 package all do so. I recommend the latter two,\nespecially xv if you want to do any conversion.\n\n\tI'm not sure offhand, but I will attempt to mail you the\ncomp.lang.postscript FAQ, which has a list of utilities.", "When sw is delivered you will often (always?) get 360 k\ndiskettes if you opt for the 5 1/4 inch format. How big a %-tage\nof existing PC/XT/AT/PS2's have these low capacity drives as\ntheir only diskette station? \n (o o)\n+------------------------------oOO--(_)--OOo-----------------------------+\n+------------------------------------+-----------------------------------+\n", "Anyone out there in netland have a spare data pod or two from an old \n1615A Hewlett Packard logic analyzer? If you do, I'd like to buy it off\nof you. The pod's part number is 10248B.\n\nAs a side note, anyone know of any good surplus dealer or other organization\nthat would carry wayward logic analzer pods?", "\nXoftware from Age Software has proven good by me. Runs under MS Windows and is relatively stable.\n\ttechsup@age.com\ncould probably help you out more.\n--Andy\n", "\n\nWhile I do not speak for Peter Tattam, I am fairly sure he is planning a \nWinsock compliant version. While this will definitely not make the initial\npublic release of WinTrumpet, it will follow on shortly thereafter.\n\nCurrently WinTrumpet is in very late beta. It looks like an excellent \nproduct, with several features beyond the DOS version.\n\nWinTrumpet supports the Trumpet TCP, Novell LWP, and there is also a direct to \npacket driver version that some people are using with the dis_pkt shim.\n\nAshok \n", "=============================================================================\nNOTE: This is being posted for a friend. DO NOT REPLY to my account. Please \n direct all replies to Scott Burke at scott@sparcom.com\n=============================================================================\n\nAlpine 5959S 6-CD Shuttle. Paid $600, want $420/OBO.\nAlpine 1203 Remote CD Changer Control. Paid $250, want $175/OBO.\nBoston ProSeries 10.0 Subwoofers (2) + Box. Paid $545, want $380/OBO.\n\nAll equipment is under 6 months old and includes a full-replacement 5-year\nwarranty from original point of purchase. The subwoofer box was custom\ndesigned to fit in the back of a Bronco II and is 14\" by 21\" by 27\".\n\nSend replies to: scott@sparcom.com\n\n-----\nScott Burke - Project Leader - Sparcom Corporation - Corvallis OR\nscott@sparcom.com - Telephone (503) 757-8416 - FAX (503) 753-7821\n\n\n-- \n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n \"Just waiting for the nuts...\"\n Brett Barksdale brett@porky.oce.orst.edu", "=======\nFORSALE\n=======\n\nCPM Computers:\n1. Model AMPRO A13001 Rev A, with or without 2 720K 5 1/4\" floppy drives and\n system disks. Z80 processor.\n2. Unknown brand. w/Miniscribe Model 1006 hard drive. 1/2 height 8\" Shugart\n model 810 floppy drive. Keyboard. System disks.\n\nAlso:\n2 - 8\" Shugart model 801 floppy drives.\n\nAlso:\nCommodore 64 computer, 1541 disk drive.\n\nWill sell in whole or in parts. Buyer pays shipping.\n\nTo make offers, either email beers@cs.buffalo.edu or call (716) 741-9272, and\nask for Jonathan.", "I have the following complete camera kits for sale:\n\nMinolta with three lenses.\nRicoh with zoom lens.\nNikon 35 mm autofocus. $50.\nNikkor 50/1.8 MINT. $60.", "Our student association runs a small Novell network which has a subnetwork\nof Windows for Workgroups and Microsoft Mail. The Director of Finance, en\nelectrical engineering student, would like to gateway this system, either\nvia SLIP or not, into the University's network and thus the Internet, at\nthe very least to exchange e-mail, but possibly also to do ftp's etc. For\nnow, this would be done via a 9600 bps modem.\n\nHe would like to set it up so that it would periodically call in to check\nmail, but would otherwise connect whenever needed.\n\nWhat is the best way to do this? Gatewaying software is available, but\nwhat works best?\n\nPlease reply to me: dkmiller@unixg.ubc.ca\n or the D of F : dleung@ee.ubc.ca\n\nwith a cc: to the other. I don't read all of these groups regularly, so mail\nis best. If this is a common question, please pot me to a FAQ or ftp site.", ": This may be an FAQ (if so, please direct me to the known answer) but I\n: am getting frustrated and looking for help.\n: \n: I am running Win 3.1 with NDW 2.2 on a 486sx with 8 meg of memory and a\n: 6 meg perm swap file and am getting exceedingly frustrated that my\n: applications are not giving back system resources when I close them.\n:\nI've noticed this also. The way it was explained to me is that Windows\ndoes not clear the upper memory blocks after a program is done. Anyone\nout there know if this is why?", "For Sale: 24 Pin Printer - ALPS Allegra 24\n\n Asking Price: $150 shipped prepaid\n (C.O.D. orders pay C.O.D. shipping).\n\n Features:\n\n Straight paper path (won't jam).\n Paper saving tear-off capability (no need to waste a sheet to\n get a current printout).\n Programmable preferences (you don't even need a computer)\n Letter Quality 360dpi output\n Epson LQ2500 emulation built-in\n Card slot for additional memory / font upgrades\n Printer ribbons easily found (there are three or four sources\n for ALPs ribbons in every Computer Shopper).\n Fast 180 CPS output\n This printer has not even been used in the last two years (three\n years old) because I have a laser printer at work and use that\n instead.\n Originally $399.\n\n I'll even throw in two ribbons (may need simple reinkings tho).\n\n\tAdisak Pochanayon\n\t2525 University Avenue\n\tApartment J\n\tMadison, WI 53705\n\t(608) 238-2463\n\n---------------------------------- CUT HERE ----------------------------------\n\n Jeez!!! It never fails, get in the tub and there's a rub at the lamp!\n-- The Genie from Aladdin.\n\n pochanay@cae.wisc.edu eddie (Adisak) Pochanayon\n Check out all of SilverFox SoftWare's Releases.... your Amiga entertainment.", "A silly question: I frequently edit small files and need to make copies of them\non several floppy diskettes of the same size and format, but my computer is\nonly equipped with one 3.5\" HD drive and one 5.25\" HD drive; can't I do the\ncopying without swapping files temporarily to my hard disk (which is 99.9% full)\nusing standard MSDOS 5.0 commands? I know\ndiskcopy a: a:\nworks but for small selections of files,\nxcopy a:*.txt a:\ndoes not!\nMaybe I'll have to write my own file copy command in C, but the idea does not\namuse me.\nThanks for your help.", "As the title says...Does anyone know of a Text editor (like notepad) that\ncan handle large text files?....Thanx for any and all help!\n\n________________________________________________________________________", "I am looking for a public domain 3d viewer. It does not have to be very\nfancy. The features I want is simple wireframe display, flat shading, \nsimple transformation. It would be nice to have hidden line. ", "\n\tThe first and only thing I've ever tried to auto-trace was a piece\nof a USCG nautical chart using Adobe Illustrator 3.2. I wanted to get the\noutline of the coast for Western Long Island Sound. I was simultaneously\nsuprised at how good a job it did and disappointed at how poorly it did. I\nsuspect what I gave it was a very difficult thing; not only is the coastline\nvery irregular, but overlaid on the chart are numerous sets of gridlines\n(not only lattitude and longitude, but loran grids as well). The most\ncommon mistake it make was whenever the coastline was roughly parallel and\ntangent to a grid line, it would take off following the gridline instead of\nthe coast. I think the best improvement would be some sort of interactive\nalgorithm that would let you step in and say \"no, dummy, you're going the\nwrong way\".\n\n\tSteve Reisberg, a friend of mine a few years back(*), did his\ndoctoral work analysing electron micrographs of filimentous phage (virii).\nA good chunk of the work was writing a program to take a digitized\nmicrograph and automatically trace the centerline of the virus particles.\nThis is essentially the same problem that Illustrator tries to solve with\nits auto-trace tool.\n\n\tIn some respects the problem Steve worked on was harder, since he\nwas trying to do quantitative analysis of the virus structure and finding a\ngood centerline was only the first step, but a step on which all future\nanalysis depended. However, in other respects, it was an easier problem\nsince the program could be written with a lot of knowledge about what the\nvirus particles were supposed to look like, and the analysis could be\nrestricted to those particles which happend to be relatively straight,\nclean, and well imaged; you don't always have that freedom auto-tracing real\nlife images. In any case, it gave me some insight into just how difficult\nthis problem is to solve in the general case.\n\n\t(*) Steve is no longer with us. He and his wife disappeared while\non vacation in Hawaii a couple of years after they graduated. Their last\nknown location was hiking in a densely wooded in a mountainous area. While no\nbodies were ever found, they are presumed to have been the victim of some\nsort of fall or accident in the woods.", "10 month old stereo system for sale. Luxman R-351 receiver, Onkyo TA-RW404\ntape deck, and Polk Monitor M4.6 book shelf speakers are for sale. Receiver\nhas 5 year warranty, and all equipment is in excellent condition. Paid $950\nfor the system and willing to consider the best offer. Will sell seperate\npieces also if desired. Please send best offer to suraj@cs.jhu.edu.\n\nSpeakers: Polk Monitor M4.6 bookshelf speakers\n\t Paid $250 pair. Willing to consider best offer.\n\nReceiver: Luxman R-351 receiver with 5 year (yes 5 years) warranty.\n\t Paid $475. Willing to consider best offer.\n\t Full remote, 2 pairs of speaker connections,\n\t 60 watts per channel, but drives like a 150 watts per channel\n\t Has all the standard features, and more.\n\nTape Deck: Onkyo TA-RW404 tape deck\n\t Paid $275. Willing to consider best offer.\n\t Dual cassette, Dolby B, C, and HX Pro.\n\t Input level control for recording, auto reverse both sides.\n Has all standard features.\n\nSend E-mail with best offer to suraj@cs.jhu.edu", "I have posted a DOS MPEG decoder/player to alt.binaries.pictures.utilities.\n\nHere is a short description and some technical information, taken from the\naccompanying documentation:\n\n\n DMPEG V1.0\n\n Public Domain MPEG decoder\n\n by Stefan Eckart\n\n\n0. Features\n===========\n\nDMPEG/DMPLAY is another MPEG decoder/player for the PC:\n\n\n - decodes (nearly) the full MPEG video standard\n (I,P,B frames, frame size up to at least 352x240 supported)\n\n - saves decoded sequence in 8 or 24bit raw file for later display\n\n - optional on-screen display during decoding (requires VGA)\n\n - several dithering options: ordered dither, Floyd-Steinberg, grayscale\n\n - color-space selection\n\n - runs under DOS, 640KB RAM, no MS-Windows required\n\n - very compact (small code / small data models, 16 bit arithmetic)\n\n - real time display of the raw file by a separate player for\n VGA and many Super-VGAs\n\n...\n\n4. Technical information\n========================\n\nThe player is a rather straightforward implementation of the MPEG spec [1].\nThe IDCT is based on the Chen-Wang 13 multiplication algorithm [2]\n(not quite the optimum, I know). Blocks with not more than eight non-zero\ncoefficients use a non-separated direct multiply-accumulate 2D-IDCT\n(sounds great, doesn't it?), which turned out to be faster than a 'fast'\nalgorithm in this (quite common) case. Dithering is pretty standard. Main\ndifference to the Berkeley decoder (except for the fewer number of supported\nalgorithms) is the use of 256 instead of 128 colors, the (default) option to\nuse a restricted color-space and the implementation of a color saturation\ndominant ordered dither. This leads to a significantly superior quality of\nthe dithered image (I claim, judge yourself).\n\nRestricted color-space means that the U and V components are clipped to\n+/-0.25 (instead of +/-0.5) and the display color-space points are distributed\nover this restricted space. Since the distance between color-space points\nis thus reduced by a factor of two, the color resolution is doubled at the\nexpense of not being able to represent fully saturated colors.\n\nSaturation dominant ordered dither is a method by which a color, lying\nsomewhere between the points of the display color space, is approximated\nby primarily alternating between two points of constant hue instead of\nconstant saturation. This yields subjectivly better quality due to the\nlower sensitivity of the human viewing system to saturation changes than\nto hue changes (the same reasoning as used by the PAL TV standard to improve\non NTSC). The improvement is particularly visible in dark brown or redish\nareas.\n\n...\n", "I am currently attempting to get a copy of the HP Widget set compiled\nunder Linux (SLS Release with kernel 99.6) and am running into some\nproblems. Actually, it seems that this is more of a GCC question,\nbecause I got it to compile without trouble using cc on an RS/6000.\n\tBasically, there are a number of functions with prototypes\nset up in, let's say, CompositeP.h, for instance, the composite\nwidget's insert_child procedure is set up with the type :\n\n\ttypedef void (*XtWidgetProc) (Widget)\n\nbut in several places in the HP source code, they reference the\ninsert_child procedure and pass it multiple arguments instead of just\none, as the prototype suggests. For example:\n\n\t(*superclass->composite_class.insert_child)(w, args, p_num_args)\n\nNow, GCC chokes on this, giving an error message that too many arguments\nare passed to the function. So, does anyone have any suggestions as to\nhow to turn off this checking in GCC, or how I can go about changing the\ncode to accomodate this call without changing /usr/include/X11/CompositeP.h,\nor has anyone successfully built the HP widget set and have any suggestions.\n\tMany thanks in advance for any help.\n", "I have a brand new low density 5.25\" floppy drive for MAC.\nIt comes with a brand new Apple Macintosh II PC drive card, so \nthat you can hook the drive up to the card.\nIt allows you to use DOS formatted disks.\nI am selling it for $90 (abt 1/3 retail price).\n\nAilin\n803-654-8817", "I need help finding XCMDs to control a CD-ROM drive\nfrom Aldus Supercard 1.6. The Apple Hypercard CD-ROM\nToolkit does not work. Aldus has no clue. Apple has no clue.\nBerkeley MUG and Boston MUG won't return any phone calls.\nMy local user group has no idea. HELP!\nCommercial or shareware is fine...\nPlease reply by email: clee@theporch.raider.net\nTHANKS!\n", "Are there any Workspace Managers out there for Windows 3.1 ?\nBy a Workspace Manager, I mean something like the HP APOLLO Workstations\nhave - multiple workspaces under X. There is a window at the bottom\nof the screen which allows you to select different workspaces.\nIt overcomes the problem of having stacks of windows open on the one\nscreen. Instead, you can spread them amongst different workspaces\nwhich act like independent screens, and you can flick between them.\nThanks in advance.\n", "I need info regarding a miniscribe 3.5\" half-height drive. There is a\nsticker on it with the following,\n MODEL HDA PCBA UNIQUE TDA\n 8425F 09AA 03AB 03AA -\nBut the sticker on the biggest chip on the MFM interface has this,\n MODEL PCBA TDA\n FXX 03AB\n\nWhat is the spec of the drive (# of cyl, heads, etc)?\nHow fast is this drive? Can I use it as a RLL drive? \nI also have a SCSI interface that seems to match all the connectors\nfor this drive. It has this description,\n MODEL PCBA E-P TDA\n AXX 01A 29A\nCan I replace the MFM interface by the SCSI interface and use the drive\nas a SCSI drive? What would the drive size be? There is a set of jumpers\non the SCSI interface with \"6SEL\" besides it. What is the use of it?", "So what's the deal with the PDS slot in the IIsi?\n\nI recently purchased a Mac IIsi. I want to add a non-Apple monitor to the\nsystem. I was told that you could buy a 90 degree angled PDS to NuBus adaptor\ncard so you can fit a standard NuBus card into the computer.\n\nAm I mistaken or do have to buy a PDS monitor card specifically for the IIsi?\nI've seen the PDS monitor cards for the si, but they seem expensive, and I'm\nnot exactly made of money.\n\nAny ideas? Help. Clue me in!\n--\n\nRandy L. Riegsecker\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\n\"Barney must die.\" I need somebody to shove.\n---------------------------------------------------------------------", "Krzysztof Muchorowski was asking about GIF-to-TGA conversion so that he\ncould use DTA 1.5 to convert the TGA files to FLI animation files.", "Hello world, does anyone know of a Postscript PPD for a Versatec \nA0-size plotter, which is generally accessed via a ZEH Postscript\ninterpreter? Replies by e-mail very gratefully received - this is\nproving to be quite a tricky one.\n\n_________________________________________________________________________\nAndrew D. Nielsen Internet : anielsen@DIALix.oz.au\nAdvanced Systems Consultant AppleLink: AUST0278\nAppleCentre Perth \n69 Adelaide Tce Tel: +61-9-2214511\nPERTH WA 6004 AUSTRALIA FAX: +61-9-2212527", "Hi there,\n\nI think it is time to create a MS DOS 6.0 FAQ since lots of questions\nabout it are actually flooding the net. I won't be able to write it\nmy self because of the lack of time/knowledge/experience.\n", "\nAccording to the (seen several times) postings from Dale Adams of Apple\nComputer, both the 610 and the 650 require 80ns SIMMS - NOT 60 ns. Only\nthe Centris 800 requires 60 ns SIMMs.", "I have the following CD's for sale for $5 each plus shipping\nBody Count - (without \"Cop Killer\")\nYo! MTV Raps (volume 1)\nSkid Row (1st album)\nBryan Adams - Waking up the Neighbours\nTemple of the Dog\nC + C Music Factory - gonna make you sweat\n\nIBM PC games -\nEye of the Beholder 2 with cluebook - $25\nPools of Darkness - $18\nJet Fighter 2 - $18\n\nBooks - \nAncient Egypt, a Social History (retail $26, will sell for $8)\nEncyclopedia of Ancient Egypt (hardcover, 283 pages) - $18\nEncyclopedia of Physics (hardcover, 1371 pages, 1990) - $25\n\n+ shipping also on books and games", "\nYeah, Corel Draw and WordPerfect Presentations pretty limited here, too.\n\tSince there's no (not really) such thing as a decent raster to\nvector conversion program, this \"tracing\" technique is about it. Simple\nstuff, like b&w logos, etc. do pretty well, while more complicated stuff\ngoes haywire. I suspect (even though I don't write code) that a good\nbitmapped to vector conversion program would probably be as big as most\nof these application softwares we're using -- but even so, how come one\nhasn't been written? (to my knowledge). I mean, even Hijaak, one of the\ncommercial industry standards of file conversion, hasn't attempted it yet.", ")Many high-end graphics cards come with C source code for doing basic graphics\n)sorts of things (change colors, draw points/lines/polygons/fills, etc.). Does\n)such a library exist for generic VGA graphics cards/chips, hopefully in the\n)public domain? This would be for the purpose of compiling under a non-DOS\n)operating system running on a standard PC.\n\nCheck the server code for X11R5. (or \"XFree86\")", "\n\n\nI totally agree with your friend, since when the CPU is apparently idle\nit is still in fact churning away millions of instructions per second\n(checking for keyboard input for instance). \n\nThe exception to this is for CPU's used in laptops, where the CPU can\nenter an idle state where it is just preserving its current status but\ndoing absolutely nothing. In this case it needs a hardware interrupt\nto get it going again.\n\n\n--\n_____________________________________________________________________\n\nVictor Buttigieg\t\t\t\t\te-mail:\tvictor@uk.ac.man.ee.comms\n\nCommunications Research Group\n\nUniversity of Manchester\n", "Is there a fix for this? We have a Quadra 900 that will NOT finish startup\nunless there is a monitor connected. This would be no problem, but since\nwe're running it as a file server, there is no need to have a monitor\nconnected all the time.\n\n", "I am looking for comments from people who have used/heard about PhotoShop\nfor Windows. Is it good? How does it compare to the Mac version? Is there\na lot of bugs (I heard the Windows version needs \"fine-tuning)?\n\nAny comments would be greatly appreciated..\n\nThank you.", "We are doing a research about a passive dynamic vision guided\nvehicle.\nCompleted the first theoric part, we have to make the effective\nrealization of this vehicle.\n\nWe need the necessary hardware for image acquisition from a videocamera\nand for their subsequent elaboration (tipically: edge detection).\n\nWe ask for informations about available products in the market for\nthis purpose (in real time, 20-25 frames/second).\nHence we need frame-grabber cards and/or DSP cards for SUN or PC platform. \n\nWe are also very interested in receiving comments and suggestions from users\nof these cards, especially about programming tools.\n\nFurthermore we are looking for the same kind of informations about\ndigital controlled Pan&Tilt devices.\n\nThanks in advance\n\nBest regards\n\t\t\t\tEnrico Fedrigo", ": Hello, \n: \n: Let me introduce a problem:\n: \n: When I measure a sinusoidal wave (voltage) with a digital voltmeter, using \n: AC mode, my output is an rms value (a peak value over 2 squared). / Right? / \n: When I measure a square wave in the same mode (AC), my output is equal \n: to a peak value, actually, to the upper flat boundary of the wave.\n: I assumed, that a digital voltmeter makes some kind of integration of the \n: input value, and divides it over the wave period. / Right?/\n: Now, I used it to measure the same square wave as above, but distorted \n: by high-frequency harmonics. Ideally, output should be the same, but...\n: The output value was only about 10% of the previous one! \n: Why? What is the nature of this output value? What does the voltmeter \n: actually measure? And what does it show? \n\n\nRe: RMS readings\n\nUnless the DVM *says* it's measuring RMS, it's probably Average voltage.\nThe input is diode rectified and measured as DC. If it says it's RMS\nand but measures square/triangle/etc. incorrectly, it's measuring\naverage and multipling by a correction that's *only* true for sine waves\n(i.e. Vave*(0.707/0.63) = Vrms). If you want correct RMS for (most)\nany waveform, you need a \"True-RMS\" DVM/DMM which literally does the\nRoot-Mean-Square calculation in either analog or digital circuitry.\n\n: \n: Related question (less important to me):\n: What are advantages and disadvantages of digital voltmeters to compare with \n: analog ones? \n\nThe last significant advantage of analog (IMO) ** was ** being able to\n\"see\" the signal if it was changing over time (e.g. checking\nelectrolytic capacitors).\n\nAnymore, most DMM have bargraphs, etc. that duplicate this.\n\n: \n: Thank you for your attention, you could mail me your opinion at\n: avm1993@zeus.tamu.edu or open a discussion here. I would appreciate either \n: way.\n: \n: \n: Alexander V. Mamishev\n: \n: ____________________________________________________________________________\n: Power System Automation Laboratory <> phone office (409) 845-4623 \n: Department of Electrical Engineering <> phone home (409) 846-5850\n: Texas A&M University <> fax (409) 862-2282\n: College Station, TX 77843, USA <> Internet: avm1993@zeus.tamu.edu\n: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n: \n", "---------------------- LightWave3D Mail-List ----------------------\n\n-- WHAT IS LightWave? --\n\nLightWave3D is part of a suite of programs that come bundled with a\ndevice called the \"Toaster\" (from NewTek, Inc.) that operates on an\nAmiga platform. The LightWave software (LightWave=LightWave3D and\nLightWave Modeler) allows and artist to create three dimensional\nphoto-realistic images for a variety of purposes.\n\n-- WHY ARE WE DOING THIS? --\n\nThis mailing list is for those interested in the LightWave software, how\nit operates and in ideas on how to obtain the best quality images\navailable to them. The list is for those who own the Toaster and\nLightWave as well as those just interested in what can be done with the\npackage. We hope to share information, tips, procedures and to bond as\na group.\n\n-- WHAT ARE THE RULES? --\n\nSince LightWave/Modeler are just a part of the Newtek Video Toaster\nsoftware, I'm sure we will discuss a few items related to the operation\nof the Toaster. However, we will strive to keep the subject revolving\nspecifically around the 3D software, related tools and products.\n\nYou do NOT have to own a Toaster to join this list!\n\n-- OK! HOW DO I JOIN? --\n\nTo become a member of the LightWave3D mailing list you must send a mail\nmessage to the address:\n\n lightwave-request@bobsbox.rent.com\n\nIn the body of the message enter:\n\nsubscribe lightwave-l your.name@your.site.domain\n\nOr just ask to be signed up and I will sign you up to the list. At this\npoint in time the process is manual but I hope to get an automated\nscript based system in place soon. There shouldn't be too much of a\ndelay in joining. Expect a \"welcome\" message within 5 days after you\nsend your request. Then, expect the mail to start flowing in!\n\n-- HOW DO I POST TO THE LIST? --\n\nContributing to the list is simple. Just mail your articles to the\nfollowing address:\n\n lightwave@bobsbox.rent.com\n\nYour article will be processed by the system and distributed to all\nothers joined to the list. Your articles will also be sent to you so\nyou know that your article has made it to the list. However, those\naddresses that are either no good or no longer active will bounce back\nto you. So, if you post an article and another members address is no\nlonger valid, your original article will be returned to you. This\ndoesn't mean it hasn't been posted to the list. In fact, just the\nopposite is true. It means that your article WAS posted and that it\ncouldn't be sent to one or more of the members of the list due to a bad\naddress.\n\nNOTE: I hope to have a fix for this behavior soon.\n\n-- HOW DO I QUIT THE LIST? --\n\nSimply mail a request to be removed from the list to the same address\nyou used to sign up:\n\n lightwave-request@bobsbox.rent.com\n\nIn the body of the message enter:\n\nunsubscribe LightWave-l your.name@your.site.domain\n\nI will remove your name from the list of members. PLEASE, if you join\nthe list and your account is going to be closed or if you will not be\nable to receive mail for a while, send a request to be removed from the\nlist! If you are just going to lose access for a short while still send\na request for a suspension of your membership and I will suspend\nforwarding of the articles to you.\n\n\n-- WHAT ABOUT OLD ARTICLES? --\n\nI am currently archiving all the articles posted to the list at the\noriginating site (bobsbox). However, I can not continue to do this due\nto lack of disk space. What we need is a volunteer that will maintain a\ncompendium of articles sent to the list. They can compress and store\nthem in archives on their system. They can then periodically post an\nindex of the contents of the compendium and any other information that\nrelates.\n\nIf there are no volunteers then maybe someone can donate a large SCSI\nhard drive to me for archival purposes. \n\nI have setup a mail-based file server so that anyone interested in the\nlist can obtain information as well as the entire archive of past\narticles, the membership listing and other information pertaining to\nthe LightWave3D mailing list. For information on this service, please\nsend a mail message to:\n\n fileserver@bobsbox.rent.com\n\nThe first command to the server must be \"HELP\" or \"USER name \".\n\nUse HELP to request a current copy of the helpfile.\nUse USER name [passwd] to connect to the service.\nUse ? to get a short listing of all available commands.\n\n\n\n-- NOW WHAT DO I DO? --\n\nWell, sit back and enjoy the pouring out of information. If you have\nsomething to offer, please feel free to contribute that information to\nthe list. Every little bit helps. Questions are welcomed! It makes\nsome of us feel important when we can answer them. \n\nIf you have any questions or comments regarding the list, please contact\nme at the address:\n\n lightwave-admin@bobsbox.rent.com\n\nCheers,\n", "Sorry to waste the bandwidth. Does anyone know a software mail order company \ncalled \"Software Unlimited\"? I ordered a software from them and they charged my\ncredit card but never did send the package to me.\n\nI call them many times but nobody answer the phone. I also check Computer\nShoppers and found they don't advertise anymore. If you know if they are still\nin business or you know how to contact them, please tell me.\n\nThank you very much.", "\n Newsgroups: comp.windows.x\n Path: linus.mitre.org!linus!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!uknet!warwick!qmw-dcs!qmw!demon!xact.demon.co.uk!ptm\n From: ptm@xact.demon.co.uk (Paul Thomas Mahoney)\n Organization: X-Act Solutions Limited\n X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3\n Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 15:28:07 GMT\n Lines: 8\n\n I am looking of information regarding UIMX. I believe this is an application\n front end generator tool for Motif (among others). Whould someone given me a\n contact? I need to get hold of the programmers' guide, or something like it.\n -- \n Paul Mahoney, X-Act Solutions Limited\n smail: 20 Shipley Lane, Cooden, Bexhill-on-Sea, East Sussex, TN39 3SR\n email: ptm@xact.demon.co.uk ... pmahoney@cix.compulink.co.uk\n phone: +44 424 846368\n\n\n\n\n\nI went to the XWorld convention in NY and talked to the people\nfrom Bluestone who make UIMX. They sent me a HUGE 3 ring binder\nof info and a demo tape. Let me know what you need.", "Hello,\n\nThis is my first net letter, so forgive mistakes!\n\nI have been plagued by problems (or lack of info) with\nauthorization in Open Windows 3.0 for a long while and\nwould like some help please! I generally use strait\nMIT X, and so don't use OW much, but when I share \nX software with others - bad news.\n\nPROBLEM:\n\nMy friend who logs into his SSII trys to run my \nprogram that runs fine on my machine, however, \nmy friend gets \"client not authorized to connect \nto server\" (or something close). If OW is started\nwith the -noauth option all is well, but surely this\nis not required in general!\n\nAlso, xhost + does not work, becoming root does not \nwork, etc... \n\nAny help will be greatly appreciated!\n\nThanx", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nAll right. Not saying I know any more than the average salesguy, I'll give \nyour question a shot. \n\nThe key issue that I bought my BJ-200 on was ink drying speed. You really \nhave to try awful hard to get the BJ-200 ink to smear. The HP DeskJets need \n10-15 seconds to completely dry. In both cases, however, do not get your \npages wet. Unlike laser printers, the material on your pages is INK, not \ntoner. But that should go without saying.\n\nMy PC has very little memory (only 2Meg RAM), so the BJ-200 takes a little \nwhile to print ----- but every application I use takes a while to run. Once \nthe computer is solely printing, it purs like a kitten and puts pages out \nevery 15-30 seconds, depending on how detailed your graphics are. \n\nThe BJ-200 can do Windows soft fonts. I'm assuming that the DeskJet can, or \nHP wouldn't sell many......\n\nSize is another factor. The BJ-200 is much smaller, but the HP is built \nlike a tank. I bet the BJ-200 would get damaged first.\n\nFinally, the print quality. I LOVE the BJ-200's resolution. It looks like \na good laser quality print. The HP's I've used.....they look like ink. Not \nas impressive. ", "The RISC processor made by Fairchild, sold to Intergraph, much the same\nstory as the R4000.", "Yes, You bought the WRONG SIMMS.....You need 1X36 or 4X36, which are 72 pin\nSIMMS.....These are better anyway becuase the send/receive data in 4byte\n(32bit+4bit parity, one for each byte) Chunks. You will undoubtedly see these\nSIMMS becoming more widely used in the near future.\n\nJason\n-- \n", "\n\n\nI agree that this should be added to some sort of FAQ list. But we have\nstrayed from the original topic. Our computer environment is pretty split\nbetween Mac's and PC's... I am lucky and get to have both on my desk. But\nthere are people who have PC's and need to share data with the Mac users\nhere. The MAC users have no problems because of package called DOS Mounter\nwhich AUTOMATICALLy lets the MAC read DOS disks natively. For the PC there\nis no equivilant... that I know of! Both mac-ette and macsee have been \ninconsistant under the dos platform, and requires you to perform the activity\nin a DOS program to selectively transport the files.\n\nThe question originally posed was if there is such a program that hooks into\nwindows like a .DLL that will interpret the reading of a MAC disk when it is \nin a PC, and allow access to it through the standard file dialogs. It is quite\nclear that this would only be available for the 1.44MB flopies.\n\n\n-- T.J. Fiske", "\nI'm having exactly the same problem. Again, it's fine when I switch to 16\ncolors or a smaller monitor. My configuration is:\n\nModel: Centris 610 with 4 MB/80 HD, 512 VRAM, no cards\nMonitor: MAG MX15F with 16\" monitor adaptor (for resolution of 832*624)\n\nI just discovered the problem a little while ago after plugging in my\nnew MAG monitor. It seems to appear either when scrolling through a\nwindow or when using Alpha or Word and I enter .\n\nMy guess is bad VRAMs as well. I really hope it isn't a design flaw. Is\nanyone at Apple listening?", "\n\n\nI think the hangup with digital scopes is that you have to know so much\nmore about them and how they work on a scope-by-scope basis, and\nsome of the functions are typically presented, in my opinion,\nin a counter-intuitive fashion (HP has made some strides in their\n54600 series, IMO). Automatic setups are fine for simple,\nrepetitive waveforms, but can give you some crazy results on more\ncomplex events where you need to understand how the scope is\nactually measuring/processing the event. For example, is the scope\nin \"equivalent time\" or in \"real time\" sampling mode (equivalent time\nbeing a mode where samples are built-up slowly by adding a delay to\nthe trigger event each sweep)? What was the scope's actual sampling\nrate at the time? How is the data being massaged after capture but\nbefore display, etc. One common misconception is the speed of the scope.\n\nIs the HP scope you're using really a 100 MHz scope? Or is it a 20 MHz\nsample rate scope (~5 MHz single shot significance) whose front\nend including S/H can support 100 MHz waveforms (important for\nequivalent time sampling)? The 100 MHz input in this case really\nonly helps you when your waveform is repetitive, or on a single\nsample, when you get lucky and hit a transient event during a sample time.\n\nSo, there are a lot more variables in understanding how to get\nuseful information from a digital scope. I prefer an analog scope for\ngeneral use and the digital for events where I need storage for\nlater analysis or comparison, when the event is within the capability\nof the scope. Now, for the price of true 100 MHz digital scopes to\nfall...\n\n-- \n--------------------------------------------------------------------\n Dave Medin\t\t\tPhone:\t(205) 730-3169 (w)\n SSD--Networking\t\t\t\t(205) 837-1174 (h)\n Intergraph Corp.\n M/S GD3004 \t\tInternet: dtmedin@catbyte.b30.ingr.com\n Huntsville, AL 35894\t\tUUCP: ...uunet!ingr!b30!catbyte!dtmedin\n\n ******* Everywhere You Look (at least around my office) *******", "From article , by 3s737abg@hawk.cs.ukans.edu (Unknown Class User):\nSaying things like that incline one to believe that you can't get it (SCSI)\nto work for your setup (too bad). I've daisy-chained 4 SCSI devices off my\nmac without a problem (limit is 7 SCSI devices in the daisy-chain). If it\nisn't working for you, it's really better to state the problem (unless all\nyou really intend to do is try to get nasty e-mail, in that case perhaps you\nwould be better off posting to alt.masochistic type of newsgroup).\n /`-_ callan@csd4.csd.uwm.edu\n { }/ Joel E Callan Hey, why do you think I have the answer?\n \\ ./ 2909 N. 44th Street May you sit on the tack of success\n |___| Milwaukee, WI 53210 and rise to the occasion!", "\n > \n > I am looking for an algorithm to determine if a given point is bound by a \n > polygon. Does anyone have any such code or a reference to book containing\n > information on the subject ?\n > \n > Regards\n > \n > Simon\n > \n/* +-------------------------------------------------------------------+\n | |\n | Function : PuntBinnenPolygoon |\n | |\n +-------------------------------------------------------------------+\n | |\n | Auteur : Cornelis Wessels |\n | |\n | Datum : 11-01-1993 |\n | |\n | Omschrijving: Bepaalt of de aangeboden VECTOR2D p binnen of op de |\n | rand van het polygoon P valt. |\n | |\n +-------------------------------------------------------------------+\n | |\n | Wijzigingen : - |\n | |\n +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ */\n\nCLIBSTATUS PuntBinnenPolygoon ( POLYGOON *P, VECTOR2D *p )\n {\n VECTOR2D o, v, w;\n INDEX aantal_snijpunten, N, n;\n\n aantal_snijpunten = 0;\n N = GeefPolygoonLengte(P);\n GeefPolygoonRandpunt ( P, N, &o );\n\n for ( n=1; n<=N; n++ )\n {\n GeefPolygoonRandpunt ( P, n, &v );\n\n if ( o.x >= p->x && v.x < p->x ||\n\t o.x < p->x && v.x >= p->x )\n {\n w.x = p->x;\n InterpoleerLineair ( &o, &v, &w );\n\n if ( w.x == p->x && w.y == p->y )\n\treturn(CLIBSUCCES);\n else if ( w.y > p->y )\n\taantal_snijpunten++;\n }\n\n KopieerVector2d ( &v, &o );\n }\n\n if ( aantal_snijpunten%2 == 0 )\n return(CLIBERBUITEN);\n else\n return(CLIBSUCCES);\n }", "I have already purchased 72-pin SIMMs for a Quadra 800 from\nMemory Direct (on March 9). How can I tell whether or not they\nare composite SIMMs? As a rule, does Memory Direct ship\ncomposite or \"regular\" SIMMs?\n\nThank you.", "\nBandwidth is unlikely to be the problem, except over a wet string network.\nOne of major flaws of X is the horrendous number of transactions (and\nhence process switches) that it forces upon a host. Actual measurements\n(hourly average) are 5 per second per logged in user, which can lead to\n20-50 or more process switches (depending on whether each event is\nfiltered by the window manager as well as the applications and how\nmany processes are needed for each character.)\n\nWhile a blinking cursor needs only the application and the networking\nprocess, and does not add any transactions, it will add something like\n10 process switches per second per user. This is a significant increase\nin overhead, especially as the application may have quite a large working\nset. If you want a rapidly blinking cursor, there could be as many\nas 50.\n\nIf you want to go there, I wouldn't start from here!\n", "\nI would be very wary of retail outlets selling as cheap as educational prices!\nI went for a retailer, actually mail order (CDA computers), because its price\nwas better thant the campus computer store. I found out why later on when I\ntried to get a repair done at an Apple registered repair center - the CPU was a\nresale. The serial number had been removed and replaced with a non-standard\nnumber (probably from CDA computers). Consequently, the Apple repair man could\nnot do ANY warrenty repairs. So I ended up with just a 90day warrenty from CDA\nover the Apple 12month warrenty. Boy, was I pi**ed! Moral of the story, CAVEAT\nEMPTOR.\n\nHowever, if you go with a reliable, trustworthy mail order firm (if they exist\n- maybe someone could enlighten us with their experiences), you will probably\nget a better price than your local educational outlet simply because mail order\nout of state does not REQUIRE sales tax yet. Though for how much longer remains\nto be seen. The addition in sales tax on a CPU purchase will probably wipe out\nan educational discount. Again CAVEAT EMPTOR, some mail order companies DO\ninclude sales tax on purchases even if they are out of state, so check!", "A friend and I have ATI Graphic Ultra display adaptors, and they have\nbeen reasonably good performers, but we both have had irritating compatibility\nproblems with the ATI drivers and are ready to change to something faster\nand more compatible with windows. I have heard rumblings that the new Orchid\n9000 card is very fast. Anyone have experience with this card? What is\ncurrently available that is fast, compatible, does 1280x1024x256 non-\ninterlaced and cost under $500?\n\nKen Keirnan\n-- ", "I am considering adding to my 386 system equipped with a 130meg Maxtor \nHD, a second Maxtor 245 Meg HD. I assume this will not be a problem. \nHowever, I remember reading somewhere that to do this, you needed to \nreformat your original drive ? Is this true ? If so why ? My drive is \nfull and I really don't like the idea of to re-installing everything \nfrom floppy!!\n\n Please E-mail me, or post to the group\n\n\n --Mike\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------\nMike Tancsa INTERNET:#1 mdtancsa@watarts.uwaterloo.ca\nWaterloo, Ontario #2 mike.tancsa@canrem.com \nCANADA \n__________________________________________________________________\n\n---\n þ RoseReader 2.10á P004555 Entered at [CRS]", "FOR SALE:\n \nIBM-compatible XT personal computer (DOS)\nBrand: Acer\nAge: 4.5 years\nSpecs: 640K RAM\n 20 meg hard drive\n 5 -1/4 floppy drive\n Color monitor\n 2400 baud USRobotics internal modem\n \nBundled with loads of software: word processing, \ncommunications, spreadsheet, games.\n \nA good computer that successfully got me through \nall of my BA, MS, and half of my PhD (I decided to \nswitch to a Mac for my dissertation). Perfect for \nhigh school student, college student, or person who \nneeds basic word processing, spreadsheet, and/or \ndatabase capabilities.\n \nBest offer.\n \n \nReply to\nLaura Gurak\nuserglub@mts.rpi.edu\n \n \n", "I've just managed to get xdm running from an NCR 3000 (an SVR4 486 box\nrunning XFree86 1.2) to my NCD XDisplay. It's pretty much working, but\nI'm encountering a weird error. I'm attempting to start an xterm from\nmy .xsession file, but nothing happens. Redirecting stderr to a file\nusing 'exec 2>$HOME/.xerrors' in .xsession reveals the error message:\n\n \"xterm: Error 14, errno 1: Not owner\"\n\nNow, if I start xterm from the window manager, or from the command line,\nit works fine. And starting other clients, like the window manager (mwm),\nand a clock, from my .xsession also works.\n\nAnyone encountered this? Suggestions?\n\naTdHvAaNnKcSe", "I hope someone can help me with the following problem - I'm sure there\nmust be a known solution.\n\nGiven a rectangle defined by\n\n-X <= x <= X and -Y <= y <= Y where X and Y are constant\n\nand a parallelogram defined by\n\n-C1 <= a*x + b*y <= C1 and -C2 <= c*x + d*y <= C2\n\nwhere C1, C2, a, b, c, d are constants and b/a != d/c (i.e. not\nparallel lines) ^^\n not equal to\n\nwhat is the area of their intersection?\n\n What I'm after is some general algorithm suitable for ALL rectangles\nand parallelograms that can be described by the above equations. At the \nmoment it looks like I'm going to have to look at all possible cases \nand examine each seperately e.g.\n\n1) rectangle encloses parallelogram. \n\n2) parallelogram encloses rectangle.\n\n3) two corners of parallelogram inside rectangle\n\n ^\n / \\\n / \\\n / \\\n Y ------------------------------- Y\n | / \\ |\n | \\ \\ |\n | \\ . \\ | . origin\n | \\ \\ |\n | \\ / |\n -Y ------------------------------- -Y\n -X \\ / X\n \\ /\n \\ /\n \"\n\n4) two corners of parallelogram outside rectangle\n\n I hope someone can help.\n\nMany thanks in advance,\n\nDave Nettleton.\n\ne-mail: D.J.Nettleton@durham.ac.uk", "I have an old IBM PC-XT motherboard which has TWO banks\nof dip switches (eight switches per bank). I need to \nknow which switch is required to install a hard disk.\n\nDoes anyone have any archived documentation that would\nhelp me? \n \nThanks -jim- jimd@cae.prds.cdx.mot.com ", "I recently found the file xgolf on a German ftp site\n(reseq.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de) but unfortunately the shar file\nwas incomplete and the author's email address given in the readme file\n(markh@saturn.ee.du.edu) does not work.\n\nCan anyone assist by giving the location of a full version of this (or\nany other golf game for X) game, or a way of contacting the author?\n\nPlease reply by email if you can help\n\nAde", "When will I be able to call my favorite mail order software shop and buy\nNT?", "Hi folks\n\nSay, I'm new to R5 and have one quick question.\n\nIn using xon ( xon ) , I notice that it\nalways comes up with a very small window . I'm pretty\nsure its the default font. My xterms all work normally.\nIs xon supposed to read your .Xresources for a font size ?\n\nxrdb -q appears to show the right stuff.\n\nI can use xon with arguments such as xterm -fn 10x20 etc\nand everything is correct. Of course you could always do a \nsimple script to do this , but I have a feeling I'm missing\nsomething simple here.\n\nComments / suggestions appreciated.\n\nThanks in advance", "Can somebody help me out there? I have just purchased Win 3.1 and I just\ncan't get DOS apps (text mode apps) to run in a window on their own. I've\ntried mucking around with the PIF settings etc, but to no avail. What am\nI doing wrong? (I didn't get this problem under v3.0).\n\nThanks in advance ...", "Recently, my video monitor went dead, no picture, some low distorted sound.\nI didn't hear the tell-tale cracking that indicated HV at work, nor are the\nfilaments at the far end of the tube glowing orange, just nothing.\n\nOn examining the power board, I noticed the largest capacitor with a very\nbad bulge at the top. Naturally, I want to replace it, but I can't find\nany sources.\n\nThe electrolytic capacitor is 330 mF at 250WV. It has radial leads, and is\nroughly 1 1/2 inches long, 1 1/8\" wide. The dimensions are important since\nthe whole board fits in a metal cage, leaving little room.\n\nLiving in the Los Angeles area, I've been to numerous stores (Dow Radio,\nAll Electronics, ITC Elect, Sandy's, Yale Elect) with empty hands.\n\nCan anyone suggest sources for high-voltage capacitors? Mail order is \nfine, although I'd rather check out a store to compare the can. I'm going\nto try a video electronics store, hopefully they'll have HV caps.\n\n(By the way, the monitor is a ATARI SC1224, Goldstar circuitry, Masushita\ntube. Anyone else had problems?)\n\nThanks in advance,\nRich K.", "As quoted from <1993Apr17.025258.7013@microsoft.com> by anthonyf@microsoft.com (Anthony Francisco):\n\n\nThat's life. First you marry Imelda Marcos, then you die! :)\n\n\nAnd that's the HARD stuff to copy!\n", "\n\nNo, not really. It may be that your winfile.ini has gotten corrupted for\nsome unknown reason. Have you tried re-creating it by either\n1.exiting filemanager with the save setting option on when the status bar\nis visible,\nor\n2.double clicking on the Control menu(the one with minimize and maximize\nin in) when everything looks proper?\n\nIf you have, and it still doesn't work, you may want to delete your\nwinfile.ini and try one of these two saving procedures again to totally\nrecreate the file from scratch.\n\nGood luck!\n\nMark Waschkowski", "\nNot everyone should be trusted with tools. ;-)\n\n", ": \n: Then again, maybe $2445 for the gateway system isn't too cheap.\n: \n: I have a system from Micron computers:\n: \n: 486-2-50, 16 meg ram, 245 Maxtor HD, Local bus IDE / 2 meg video card, and\n: the same 15\" monitor. The system with shipping came to $2200. I sold the\n: sx-33 chip that came with it and bought a dx2-50. Total price $2300-2400.\n\nI think you got something wrong here. You state that the system was a\n486dx250, then say that you sold the sx-33 chip that came with it. This\ndoes not make sense.\n\n--", "FOR SALE\n\nSony 8mm camcorder model PRO V9 - top-of-the-line a few years ago.\n\t- autofocus with macro capability\n\t- 6x zoom\n\t- 5 lux rating\n\t- 360,000-pixel CCD chip, the best made for a 8mm camcorder\n\t- AV input/output jacks (all cables included)\n\t- RF convertor/switcher for TV without AV input\n\t- AC adaptor/charger\n\t- 1.5A battery\n\t- neck trap\n\t- user's manual\n\t- mint condition\n\nList price for this model was $1600, I paid $1330 mail-order a few years\nago. Will sacrifice for $500 or best offer. Reason for sale: upgrade\nto Hi8 model.", "I have an Alesis HR-16 drum machine for sale. It includes velocity-sensitive\npads, 49 digital sounds, 99 pattern memory and 49 song memory. If you are\ninterested, make me an offer. Please respond to:\n\n\tzmed16@trc.amoco.com\n\nThanks,", "I have the following equipment for sale:\n\n1. Kenwood TH-28A 2mtr HT\t\t\t$250.00\n\n2. RF Concepts 2mtr Amp (45in->170out)\t\t$275.00\n\n3. Hamtronics Class C Continuous Duty\n\t440mhz 10watt-in ~40watt-out amp\t$250.00\n\nAll prices include shipping/insurance.\n\nFor additional information, contact me at the address below.\n\nDave", "I have a few small cans of self defense spray for sale. I'm\nasking $12 for one can. It's about the size of a pen marker\nand works pretty good. (so I hear).\n Thanks,", "\n\n\nWell, not to be picky, but the V in VLB stands for VESA.\nWhile the V in VESA stands for video, saying the V in VLB stands\nfor video is not entirely correct.", "Hi Folks,\n\n Does anyone have a copy of Playmation they'd be willing to sell me. I'd \nlove to try it out, but not for the retail $$$. If you have moved onto \nsomething bigger (3DS) or better (Imagine), I'd love to buy your table scraps.\n\n If noone is selling, can anyone recommend a place to buy Playmation \nmail-order for cheap? \n\n Thanks in advance,\n\n Mark\n\n\n\n-- ", "I have a mystery part labeled NEC AC100. It's from the low voltage\nsupply of an NEC Multisync I monitor. It's a three lead part in a\nsquare package like a volate regulator or power transistor. The board\nis labeled CR691 where the part goes. (Possibly an SCR?) The pin\nlabeled G on the board goes to a zener diode (reference voltage?); the\npin labeled T1 goes to the negative lead of a capacitor in the power\nsupply, and the pin labeled T2 goes to the negative side of the bridge\nrectifier in the supply.\n\n If anyone can tell me what this is, or better yet, where I can buy\none just like it, please email me at ck3i@andrew.cmu.edu. I've called\nNEC's \"monitor repair number\" and not only do they not know what the\npart is, but they don't think that they can find one to sell to me... \nIt makes no sense to me...", "Hi!\n\n I'm busy resurrecting some old machines (hey, they're cheap and they\nwork :)) and would be grateful for any help with the following card -\n\nMagitronic - full length 8 bit memory only card.\nHas room for 8 rows of 256K dips for a total of 2MB RAM.\nHas an 8 position dip switch on it, presumably for addressing.\n\nDoes any kind soul out there have any docs or drivers for this beast?\nI'd be disgustingly grateful.\n\n Thanks,\n Lee.", "Whenever I start File Manager, the status bar is not displayed,\neven though it is selected in the options menu. If I deselect it,\nthen select it again, the bar appears. Anyone have any ideas why\nthis is happening?\n\nThanks", " |Hi, everybody:\n | I guess my subject has said it all. It is getting boring\n |looking at those same old bmp files that came with Windows. So,\n |I am wondering if there is any body has some beautiful bmp file\n |I can share. Or maybe somebody can tell me some ftp site for\n |some bmp files, like some scenery files, some animals files,\n |etc.... I used to have some, unfortunately i delete them all.\n |\n |Anyway could me give me some help, please???\n |\n\n\tIn response to a \"different\" kinda wallpaper, here's what I\nuse. I think the original gif/whatever was called \"not_real\". The \nartist name and logo is in the lower right corner. You will need VGA\nI think, and I have this sized for 800x600 256 color screens. Use\nthis in your Windows directory and do not tile it. Hope you enjoy.\n", "Sharp brand \"Pocket Computer\" model PC-1246\n\n Dimensions; 3.5 x 5 x 0.5 inches.\n\n Has 15-digit LCD display\n 53 rubber keys (w/alphabet)\n built-in BASIC prog.language\n an 11-pin-socketed interface for optional cassette drive. (Don't have)\n slide-over/reversable plastic cover.\n\n Sorry, no owners manual.\n A program or two still in memory.\n\n Asking $15 + shipping (about $2 in U.S.)", "\n\nOTOH, some of us get lucky-- I've unplugged and replugged SCSI and ADB\nquite often, and never blown anything. I blew out the ADB by shorting\nthe cable, though.\n", "\nA method which will directly (almost) provide you with the information that\nyou require is that which is commonly used for coordinate measurements of \nhuman body landmarks (eg. the SELSPOT system by SELSPOT AB, Sweden, and the\nWATSMART System ??). These use lateral photoeffect detectors [Lindholm and\nOberg, 1974; Woltring and Marsolais, 1980] to determine the position of a\nspot of light projected (using a camera lens) over its surface. In escence,\nthe detector is a large photodiode with four cathodes (one on each of the\nfour sides of the square detector crystal) and a single anode (the back of\nthe crystal). A spot of light will produce currents which are proportional\nto the position of the spot on the detector's face. Let's try some ASCII\ngraphics in 2-D (so the detector has two cathodes to detect linear position)\n\n\n\n -------------------------> 1\n | |\n | | |\\\n ----- cathode 1 | | \\\n XXXXX ________| + \\\n XXXXX| | \\ -------\n light >XXXXX| | \\_____ divider __ output\n XXXXX| | | / -------\n XXXXX|-----| |-- | / |\n XXXXX| + | | ________| - / 1 + 2\n XXXXX| --- gnd | | /\n XXXXX| \\ / | |/\n XXXXX| anode |\n XXXXX |\n ----- cathode 2 |\n | |\n | |\n --------------------------> 2\n\nIf the dot of light from the LED is the ONLY source of light, then the position\nof the projection is given by this circuit regardless of the level of illumina-\ntion (the divider is used to normalize relative to total received power). When\nthis circuit is used in the presence of other sources of light, then the way of\n\"tuning\" to it is to sample for a few msec the background signal, light the LED\nfor an equal time and sample that signal separately. The difference between\nthe two is the position of the LED.\n\nHamamatsu photonics sells linear and 2-D lateral photoeffect detectors, and\nthey also sell the required signal processing electronics. The ready-made\nsystems by SELSPOT and others are NOT cheap ... \n\nLindholm, L.E., and K.E. Oberg, \"An Optoelectronic Instrument for Remote\nOn-Line Movement Monitoring\", Biotelemetry, 1, 94-95, 1974.\n\nWoltring, H.J., and E.B. Marsolais, \"Opto-Electronic (SELSPOT) Gait Measure-\nments in Two and Three Dimensional Space - A Preliminary Report\", Bull. Pros-\nthetics Research, 46-52, 1980.\n\nMost probably this technique can provide you with a much more accurate\nmeasurement than you need, but I think that its simplicity beats scanning\na quadrant detector with a pan/tilt system until you reach zero difference.\n\n - David\n\n", "\n\nPlease note that there are some radiosity packages in my Resource Listing\n(under the Subject 3: FTP list)\n\nGreetings,\nNick.\n--\nNick (Nikolaos) Fotis National Technical Univ. of Athens, Greece\nHOME: 16 Esperidon St., InterNet : nfotis@theseas.ntua.gr\n Halandri, GR - 152 32 UUCP: mcsun!ariadne!theseas!nfotis\n Athens, GREECE FAX: (+30 1) 77 84 578\n\nUSENET Editor of comp.graphics Resource Listing and soc.culture.greece FAQ\nNTUA/UA ACM Student Chapter Chair - we're organizing a small conference\n in Comp. Graphics, call if you're interested to participate.", "In the last two weeks I have the following problem on two 160's\n\n1 has a 8Mb Simm and the other a 6 Mb simm\nBoth are about 2 -3 months old, bought from different vendors and installed\nby different people. \n\nBoth computers begin crashing frequently, locking up and ultimately the\nMemory Chimes. Crashes would almost always occur if you moved the screen\nand sometimes would occur when you weren't even touching the computer. In\nboth cases, taking the machine apart, taking the memory out and putting it\nback in solved the problem for awhile but then it would comeback, my\nmarginally educated guess as to what's happening is that larger SIMMS are\n\"lopsided\" in that the insertion point is sort of a pivot point and after\ntime they begin to move about - possible because of pressure on the\nkeyboard or something? \n\nAnyway, has anyone else had such a problem or solution - If somehow you\ncould support the other end of the simm to prevent it from moving.\n\nI've had no problem for the past 3 weeks by replacing my 8Mb simm with a\n2Mbsimm -although this is NOT desireble solution.\n\nPlease email any resp - and/or post if usefull to the rest of the world.\n\nTed\n\n", "\n\n\nHow about some numbers here? Some kind of benchmark?\nIf you want, let me start it - 486DX2-66 - 32 SPECint92, 16 SPECfp92 .\n\n\n\nNumbers? Pentium @66MHz - 65 SPECint92, 57 SPECfp92 .\n\t PowerPC @66MHz - 50 SPECint92, 80 SPECfp92 . (Note this is the 601)\n (Alpha @150MHz - 74 SPECint92,126 SPECfp92 - just for comparison)\n\n\n\nNot in a clock-doubled system. There isn't a doubling in performance, but\nit _is_ quite significant. Maybe about a 70% increase in performance.\n\nBesides, for 0 wait state performance, you'd need a cache anyway. I mean,\nwho uses a processor that runs at the speed of 80ns SIMMs? Note that this\nmemory speed corresponds to a clock speed of 12.5 MHz.\n\n\nNumbers?\n\n-- \nRavikumar Venkateswar\nrvenkate@uiuc.edu", "\n\n\nTo put it bluntly, they are full of it.\n\nPaying a tape is playing a tape. There is no difference whether the \noutput goes to a second VCR or to a TV. (How the VCR or TV reacts to \nthis signal is a different story - see messages pertaining to macrovision \ncopy protection.)\n\nIn order for the tape to self-destruct, it would have to have circuitry \nof its own within the tape case. The circuit would have to somehow \nmagically determine what the output of the VCR is connected to. The \ncircuit would then have to have an erasing head to actually do anything.\n\nIt is a pretty lame scare tactic. (I've seen something similar on a BBS.\nWhen the SYSOP wanted to, he could have a message sent to the user's end \nsaying that it is sending the code to format your HD.)\n", "Does anyone out there have or know of, line drawing USA map?\n\n\nThanks very much in advance,\nHoi\n", "Hey folks!\n\nJust moments ago, I uploaded the Bungee Jumper After Dark module that\nwas widely talked about on here some time ago.\n\nIt's at ftp.cica.indiana.edu, in /pub/pc/win3/uploads, titled simply\nbungee.zip.\n\nBe sure to set your ftp connection to binary mode before downloading.\nIf you have any other After Dark shareware/freeware modules, please\nupload them too. The more the merrier.\n\n\nAndrew\n--", "\n:In article \n\n:>Note that measures to protect yourself from\n:>TEMPEST surveillance are still classified, as far as I know.\n\n:I think this to be inaccurate. One can buy TEMPEST equipment commercially.\n:Even Macs.\n\nSure you can buy a TEMPEST approved Mac -- if you have enough\nmoney. I haven't had any reason to look at this type of pricing\nfor about 10 years, but a TEMPEST rating in 1982 would raise the\nprice of a $2,495.00 Radio Shack Model III to something around\n$15,000.00.\n\nBill", "I recently set Windows 3.1 up on my 486DX-33 VLB system, and I didn't\nnotice until last night that I don't have the 386 icon in my control\npanel. I don't remember Windows setup asking me about 386 enhanced\nmode (whether I wanted it or not). Now I've got a program that I \njust bought (Aldus Freehand 3.1) that is telling me that I should be\nrunning Windows in enhanced mode (looks like I'm running in standard\nmode).\n\nHow can switch to enhanced mode without the little icon thingie? Are\nthere some issues involved with VESA LB systems which cause Windows\nto not want to give you enhanced mode? \n\nThanks for any help!!", "WANTED:\n\n Refrigerator.", "Hay all:\n\n Has anyone out there heard of any performance stats on the fabled p24t.\n I was wondering what it's performance compared to the 486/66 and/or\npentium would be. Any info would be helpful.\n\nLater\nBoB\n-- \nRobert Novitskey | rrn@po.cwru.edu | (216)754-2134 | CWRU Cleve. Ohio\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nCOMPUTER ENGINEER AND C PROGRAMMER | NOW SEEKING SUMMER JOBS", "Hi,\nI am looking an integrated circuits for my Z80-based \ncomputer.\nThe circuit is called Z80-STI (Serial Timer Interrupt), \nMK3801, and\nmade by Mostek. Mostek is called SGS Thompson today.\n \nI have been in contact with SGS Thompson, unfortunately \nthey me told that Z80-STI is obsolete.\n \nSo, my question is if anyone know if I can get hold of that \ncircuits. Are there any companies that specialize in selling \ncircuits that are no longer in production? I have contacted \nseveral electronic brokers in\nSweden, but without any success. I would appreciate if you \ncould give me hint where I should continue looking. Even \ncompanies in the United States would be fine, since this \ncircuit is pretty crucial to me.\n \n \nThanks in advance.\n ", "Recently I got a case of Hot Shots '93 cards. Unfortunately I had\nnot planned on keeping all of them. I sort of got stuck with the\ncase. (I'm not going to mention any names, though.)\n\nSo, I am trying to sell off most or all (minus a set for myself).\n\nIf you have any interest in a set, a box, or any singles, please let\nme know.\n\nThe set has 250 cards. Each card features a great looking woman in\nvarious stages of dress. Some nude, semi-nude, lingerie, dressed.\n99 percent are gorgeous, I feel.\n\nThere are 4 subsets:\n\nGirl, Girl, Girls 1 through 9\nPromo cards 251 through 259 (also numbered 1 of 9 through 9 of 9)\nEmperor's All-Stars 269 through 277\nStripping Empress 260 through 268\n\nAlso, I am supposed to be getting some holograms soon as well.\n\nOh, and lastly, I have a very few error cards and a few cards\nthat were originally intended to be used as card #1, but the\ncompany changed their mind. None of these cards are easy to get.\n\nAnyway, if you have some interest in any of these cards, please\ndrop me a line, as I am most eager to sell a bunch off.\n\nOh, and if you are interested, I also have 1 set of Hot Shots '92\nleft, and about 2 sets of California Dreaming cards as well.\n\nAnd lastly, I have promo cards for all of the cards I have\nmentioned, and holograms as well. Not a lot, though.\n\n\nJohn Heiden\nal166@cleveland.freenet.edu", "\nYou have to do the same sorts of things that Xt does with its main loop.\nThat is, you have to rig up a timer queue, and you have to put a \nselect(2) or poll(2) call in your main loop. You can obtain the \nfile descriptor of the X display connection using \n fd = ConnectionNumber (display);", "Hi All,\n\nI've heard of a commercial package named ZINK, that could convert MS-Windows\nsource-code to XWindows source-code (C). The only problem is, the package\nisn't available in Holland (at least, I can't find it anywhere :-( )\n\nIs there another package (preferrably free- or shareware), that can do the \nsame thing? And if so, where can I find or buy it?\n\nThanks in advance", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\tBzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt!! Sorry -- wrong. It would be an\nextremely hot idea...at least with the current Alphas. The available\nAlphas run up to 200 MHz. But they produce quite a bit of heat. In\nfact so much that they need special mounting with extra large heat\nsinks.\n\tAlso Apple looks pretty commited to the PowerPC route instead\nof a deal with DEC.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t--Sid", "I have the following IBM hardware forsale\n\n\tATI VgaWonderXl24 - This is a great card, it supports 1024x768 256 colors, 800x600 32k colors, and 640x480 16 million colors. I found that it also speed up windows considerably. I'm asking $100 o.b.o. for this card.\n\n\n\tI also have 2 2400 baud modems. I have Docs for both but I don't have the original boxes. Both work fine and I'd like to get $25 each or $40 for both.", "I need to find a UART that will interface to an 8051 and do the following:\n\t-250k baud, 8 data bits, 2 stop bits, no parity\n\t-ability to do BREAK detect (IRQ or output pin)\n\t-IRQ on character received\n\nI'm using a Dallas DS2250 at 16 Mhz (8051 clone), but it won't do \nbreak detect. I've looked at the 6850, 8251, 7201, 2661, etc...", "\nWhat frequency is your carrier?\n\nHave you considered using two tones, one for 1 and another for 0?\n\nHow high is your RS-232 data rate?\n\nCan you use more than one carrier freq?\n\nHave you considered hiring an RF data transmission consultant?", "I'm selling a bunch of my older 12\" records off. They are\nsitting around collecting dust and I never use them. I have used each\nof these records, once, maybe twice if I didn't record the song I\nwanted correctly the first time. These records are in PERFECT\ncondition. Please email me with the records you would want and what\nyou think a fair price is. I will probably give deals, the more\nrecords you buy. Kinda capatalist isn't it. Well give me a yell at \npagorm@iastate.edu with any comments. \n\t\t\t\t\t\tSee ya \n\t\t\t\t\t\tPaul\n\tI have recieved a few questions as to what 12\" are. I guess I\nshould elaborate. (???!!!! am I that old?) They are just\nmaxi-singles on wax. If I am correct most beat mixers still use this\nform of record. This is probably the kind of person interested in\nthis colllect or parts of it. Any questions call (515) 294-3737.\nThanks and see ya.\t\nArtist\t\t\tSong", "Hello Xperts out there.\nI've just built X11R5 for SunOS 4.1.1/SPARC.\nI have gcc-2.2 and I'd like to use its 64-bit capability\nto generate an X11 release which will render to the frame\nbuffer using store-double (64-bit) machine code.\nCan anyone tell me which directories/source files/\ncompiler switches to begin with?\n\nthanks in advance", "1975 H-1 500\n Brand new top end\n Chambers\n Clean + black!\n 1,500$\n Paul: (510) 839-2161\n\nPlease do not contact this email address: contact the seller.\n\nCheers", "\nWell, I am placing a file at my ftp today that contains several\npolygonal descriptions of a head, face, skull, vase, etc. The format\nof the files is a list of vertices, normals, and triangles. There are\nvarious resolutions and the name of the data file includes the number\nof polygons, eg. phred.1.3k.vbl contains 1300 polygons.\n\n\nIn order to get the data via ftp do the following:\n\n\t1) ftp taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil\n\t2) login as anonymous, guest as the password\n\t3) cd pub/dabro\n\t4) binary\n\t5) get cyber.tar.Z\n\nOnce you get the data onto your workstation:\n\n\t1) uncompress data.tar.Z\n\t2) tar xvof data.tar\n\nIf you have any questions, please let me know.\n\ngeorge dabro\ndabro@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil\n-- \ngeorge dabrowski\nCyberware Labs", "Re: Problems with S3-initialization\n\nAs described the manual the following steps must be done for th initialization\nof the S3 card.\n\nInitDisplay;\n\t(*BIOS-Call\n\t\twith AX-Reg = 4F02H\n\t\twith BX-Reg = 105H for 1024 x 768 x 256 resolution\n\t\tInterrupt 10H *)\nUnlock Register Lock 1 (CR38)\n\t(* For access to S3 Register Set *)\nUnlock Register Lock 2 (CR39)\n\t(* For access to Syst. Control and Syst. Extension Register *)\nUnlock Graphic Command Group (CR40)\n\t(* Set Bit 0 to 1 in Syst. Configuration Register *)\nUnlock Advanced Display Functions\n\t(* Set Bit 0 to 1 in Function Control Register *)\n\nAfter these operations the FIFO-stack of the S3 should be empty.\nWhen we watch the status (Graph. Proc. Status), we always get\nthe value 0FH instead of 0H.\nFull would mean 0FFH (8 places occupied), empty would mean 0H\n(0 places occupied).\n\nIt is possible to read this register in two different ways. \nBoth times we get different results.\n\n\n\nOur machine is a 486 DX/2 with EISA bus and a S3 86C805 local bus. \n\n--> any ideas?", " > anybody know the difference between the Quarda 900 and Quadra 950?\n > >Quarda 900 is a popular misspelling of Quadra 900, which has a 25 MHz\n > 040 >processor. The 950 has a 33 MHz 040, and some local buses on the\n > >motherboard run faster. The video is different also. The 950 can run a\n > 13\" and I believe a 16\" monitor in 16 bit color without a VRAM upgrade.\n > \n\nBesides the faster processor, the 950 has SCSI 2, and as far as I know, faster\nI/O due to separate processors handling those functions. The 950 can output 16\nbit video to a 16\" monitor with 1 meg of VRAM and 24 bit with 2 meg.\n\nhope this helps\nanand\narmani@edgeway.wimsey.bc.ca", "From my own notes on this subject....\n\nMethods to automatically passwd Authorization from one machine to another.\n This also includes the problem of notifing the remote host of the current\nDISPLAY that is being used.\n\n1/ Use rsh/rexec/on... (the method in the xauth manual)\n Set up the your .rhosts file in the home directory on the remote\n machine so that a password in not required to remotly execute commands.\n\n xauth extract - $DISPLAY | rsh other xauth merge -\n\n This method is also used by xrsh to pass authorization. My vampire\n program also uses a variation, however I wrap it as part of the remote\n command sequence (EG: xauth add $auth)\n\n Included in this method is the use of `xrlogin' and `xrsh' to do\n this job for you. These programs usally (the newer ones that is) allow\n you to pass a secified list of ENVIRONMENT variables which includes\n the `DISPLAY' and/or a copy of the authorization code required.\n\n The `xon' program available (if enabled) on sun machines will also\n pass environment variables, as well as the current directory. You will\n however be required to store the Authority in such a variable for\n passing. Unless you are also have shared home directories.\n\n WARNING: Environment variables and command line arguments are visible\n in `ps' listing with the appropiate flags. As such passing authorization\n information in environment variables or as arguments is not recomended.\n The recommended method as given in the manual (shown above) is safe from\n the view of other users.\n\n2/ Wrap it as part of the TERM environment variable.\n This method uses the fact that most remote command executors do pass\n the TERM environment variable to the remote host. It is then a matter of\n an appropiate script in your remote .login file to extract the information\n from the TERM environment variable and set up things appropiatly.\n A version of the xrlogin script is available on the network which does\n this. Basically you change the TERM environment variable before the\n actual call to rlogin is performed, to include your DISPLAY and your\n authorization.\n On the remote machine you then extract this information and return the\n TERM environment variable to normal BEFORE you use it for reseting or\n stty'ing your terminal.\n\n ---8<---\n script for launching rlogin:\n #!/bin/sh\n # ~/bin/rl --- Rlogin with display:\n if [ -n \"$DISPLAY\" ]; then\n case \"$DISPLAY\" in\n :*) DISPLAY=`hostname`$DISPLAY ;;\n esac\n TERM=\"$TERM&$DISPLAY&`xauth nextract - $DISPLAY`\"\n export TERM\n fi\n rlogin $*\n ---8<---\n add to your .cshrc or .login\n if ( $?TERM ) then\n if ( `echo $TERM | tr -cd '&'` != '' ) then\n echo \"$TERM\" | cut '-d&' -f3 | xauth nmerge -\n setenv DISPLAY `echo \"$TERM\" | cut '-d&' -f2`\n setenv TERM `echo \"$TERM\" | cut '-d&' -f1`\n endif\n endif\n ---8<---\n xterm command to use\n xterm -T hostname -e ~/bin/rl hostname\n ---8<---\n\n3/ NFS.\n Write it to a file on a shared NFS partition you have access to.\n Note that if the home directories are NFS mounted, then authorization\n is automatically passed, Hoever you will still have to pass your\n DISPLAY environment variable via a file or other means. IE:\n\n login host: echo $DISPLAY > ~/.X11host\n remote host: setenv DISPLAY `cat ~/.X11host`\n\n4/ Finger for the info in a .plan file\n This involves encrypting the information into your `.plan' or\n `.project' and having the remote machine finger for the information.\n This has the disadvantage of having the information to anyone fingering\n the user. Thus requiring a encryption method that is uniq to each\n individual. IE: the method of decyrption must not be shared or known\n by others, nor should it be easy to determine.\n A improvment is to use the `who fingered me' technique to only give\n the information only to your own remote accounts and not just to anyone\n who is asking.\n This last method was developed last year by a second year here, untill\n I explained to him the need for the encryption, at which point he gave\n up this method. It is however a valid method. It is easer than (2) but\n less secure.\n\n\n Anthony Thyssen - (SysProg @ Griffith University) anthony@cit.gu.edu.au\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n \"Magic is Real -- unless declared an integer\" --- John P.Melvin", "HiFonics \"Ceres\" 3-Band Parametric Equalizer\n\nSpecs:\t3-Bands: 1. 40-640Hz; 2. 100Hz-3KHz; 3. 500Hz-16KHz\n\tBoost/Cut: +/-20db\n\tTHD: Less than 0.02%\n\tSize(WxHxD): 190mmx53mmx120mm\n\nThis EQ has three variable bands as indicated above with\nvariable Q. It also has a subwoofer output with variable\ncutoff frequency. I originally paid $129 for the unit and\nused it for 3 months before selling the car. It is in\nexcellent condition with all the wiring and hardware intact \nand manual in original box. Asking price: $75", "\nWould if only it were true ...\n\nIf only MIT would fix the !@&$^*@ twm \"InstallWindowColormaps()\" crash bug\nonce and for all, then I could say that I've (almost) unable to crash either\n\"twm\" or \"tvtwm\", which would be a remarkable feat - and most desirable to\nboot. I mean, this bug has only been reported, oh, a zillion times by now ...\n\nNow *servers*, on the other hand ... (want to crash an OpenWindows 3.0 \"xnews\"\nserver at will? Just do an 'xbiff -xrm \"XBiff*shapeWindow: on\"'. Blammo.)\n", "\n\nOf course you could develope this system, but there is already a system called Global\nPositioning Satellites. It gives three dimensional coordinates anywhere on earth. \nMany surveyors use this system with a differential receiver/transmitter to get\ncoordinates within centimeters. Basic receivers with resolution of a few meters (on\na good day) are available from many sources.\n\n\n-- \nWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMW\n\n \\_ \\_ \\_\\_\\_ \\_\\_\\_ Weston R Beal\n \\_ \\_ \\_ \\_ \\_ \\_ sldf3@sol.ee.usu.edu\n \\_ \\_ \\_ \\_\\_\\_ \\_\\_\\_ sldf3@cc.usu.edu\n \\_\\_ \\_\\_ \\_ \\_ \\_ \\_ Electrical Engineer\n \\_ \\_ \\_ \\_ \\_\\_\\_ Utah State University\n\n \"That's the wonderful thing about crayons; they can take you to\n more places than a starship can.\" - Guinon", "Hi! I've just installed the new XArchie 2.0.1 and it all works\nfine, except:\n\non our grayscale xterm the custom icons compiled into the\nprogram don't work at all, but on the BW terminal it works fine.\nI can set the icon to an xbm file with .twmrc, but that doesn't\ngive the neat-o change when busy action. (Other programs with\nsimilar actions, e.g. xmail, xbiff, work fine.)\n\nThe X-interface author, George Ferguson, suggests it might be a\nproblem with the X intrinsics, but isn't willing to hack around\nto fix it himself. But I know zero about X programming, so I\ndon't think I can find it. \n\nDoes anyone out there know an obvious fix for the problem?\n\nAndrew\n", "HELP!\n\nI am trying to find software that will allow COM port redirection under\nWindows for Workgroups. Can anyone out there make a suggestion or reccommend\nsomething. I would really hate to have to write some driver for the serial\nport that would support the network, but that is my next step.\n\nThanks in advance.", "I've been reading, with much confusion, about whether or not to use\nATManager. Lately, all the packages I've been buying have all\nincluded ATManager as a \"bonus\"\nI do some desktop publishing using PageMaker and Coreldraw.\nCoreldraw comes with a nifty laser disk that contains over 200 diff\ntypes. Add that to the TTfonts that come with win31 and you have a\ndecent amount of fonts. I print my creations out on an HP4\nPostcript, at 600 dpi resolution with the \"Resolution Enhancement \nTechnology\" and .. well ... I get some darn good copies. \nSo good that there isn't any diff whether or not ATManager is turned\non or not. Is it worth it to run ATM at all? Especially with these\nbetter printer technologies ... and TT?", "\n\nEven the 68000 can fetch two bytes at a time.\n\nThe new instruction in the 68040 is MOVE16 which fetches 16 bytes\nat a time instead of 4 which the 68030 has; that means 4 24bit\npixels instead of one.\n\nCheers,\n\n\t\t\t\t\t/ h+\n-- \n -- Jon W{tte, h+@nada.kth.se, Mac Hacker Deluxe --", "xgetftp-1.2 needs an archie client program.\nDoes anybody know, where I can get it?", "The motif mailing list will now be located at\nlobo.gsfc.nasa.gov\n\nIf you would like to be added (or deleted) from this list, please\nsend mail to motif-request@lobo.gsfc.nasa.gov\nto mail to the list, send mail to motif@lobo.gsfc.nasa.gov\n\n\nBrian", "I'm afriad that's not true. The monitor problem seems to occur whenever\nthe 15\" Mag monitor is put into 1024x768 mode. I'm running OS/2 at 1024 and\nthe same symptoms appear.\n\nIt does not seem like a video card problem as the Cirrus Logic 5426 chip and\nthe ATI GUP seem to cause these problems... two VERY different cards.", "\n\nFor the most part, this is a bunch of bunk. I've got a Computer Engineering\ndegree, yet I've spent the last 7 years writing software that people actually\nuse. Moreover, the salary distinctions are incorrect; I received 3 job offers\nupon graduation; the two jobs that actually used my hardware experience were\n$7000/year lower! My advice is to decide which classes and projects most\ninterest you, and pick the major that allows you to take them.", "AllThe Devil ReincarnateSWR meter for CB radios\n\nTD>From: ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate)\nTD>Organization: CDAC, WA\nTD>What\nTD>is a good choice for a CB? 1/4 or 1/8 wave?\nTD> I read the installation instructions on a 1/4 wave antenna,\nTD>and they suggested that I use an SWR to tune it at channel 12\nTD>and channel 32 for a minimum reading. Question is, why channel\nTD>12 and 32?\n\nThe best antenna is one that will let out the most wave (probably not the \nbest explanation, but the rest makes sense) A one wave will cancell itself \nout (BTW no such beastie) . The best is a 1/2 wave antenna, followed by \n1/4, then 1/8 etc.\n\nAs for SWRing in, what you actually do is trim the antenna to the correct \nlength for the specific wavelength you will be transmitting on. Since the \nwavelength varies with the channel you use, then it's recommended to SWR \nin using the middle channel of those you are going to use.\nAnyway in the beginning of CB's, all new antennas had to be SWR'ed in, \nnowdays manufactures trim the antennas almost spot on, so that there's not \nmuch point in SWRing. Then again you may be a fanatic and whish to do it \nanyway.", "\n\nIf you need just to change the wallpaper, then I've written a short\nprogram in VB that does this by using SystemParametersInfo-function.\nThe bad news is that you need VBRUN200.DLL to run it, and the DLL is\nsome 350kb (the program is about 7kb). The order of pictures depends\non the system date and the number of BMP-files in the directory, so\nthe picture remains the same if you execute the program multiple times\nduring the same day and the number of BMPs has not changed.\n\nIf you feel this is what you need then I could uuencode it and email\nit to you. (It is unavailable via ftp.)\n", "Since the losers that sold me the hard disk for my computer are\nso generous, I need the info to set this drive from master to\nslave. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Please reply via e-mail.\n\nIncidentally, avoid purchasing a computer from ACS in Endicott, NY.\n", "Hi all:\nDoes anyone know where I can get the cheapest price for\nthe Teleport Gold fax modem by Global Village?\nAny answer will be highly appreciated.\nThanks in advance.\n\nRegards,", "\n >>The info I am about to give is not a rumour, it's the truth. The new\n >>macintosh coming in the second quarter, will have a cpu of their own. \n\n ]Excuse me but... have not all Macs got a CPU!!!\n\n ]Alain\n\nAlain:\nGet your facts straight before you post something like this. The Duo\nDock does not have a CPU of its own. It is a docking station with \nports connecting various components, including the portable PowerBook\nwith its own CPU. I guess these rumored new Duo Docks have a built-in\nCPU to perform functions of their own. Interesting! If they're not\ncompatible with the current Duo models, I think you'll be hearing a\nlot more \"screwed by Apple\" complaints. Imagine a company obsoleting\n(ooh, a new verb!) a virtually brand new computer... sheesh...\n \n Ken\n\n-- \n-----------------------------------------------------------------\nKenneth Simon Dept of Sociology, Indiana University\nInternet: KSSIMON@INDIANA.EDU Bitnet: KSSIMON@IUBACS ", "\nThat's expected. The first sentence describing the bitmap resource in the\nMenuButton section of the \"Athena Widget Set - C Language Interface\"\ndocumentation states\n\n bitmap A bitmap to display instead of the label.\n\nOne way round this might be to make use of the button's backgroundPixmap\nresource, but remember that you, or a user of your application, won't be able\nto set it from a resource file. Also, the button won't automatically be the\nsize of the bitmap. The bitmap will be tiled if necessary, or you could set the\nbutton's dimensions to match its size.\n\nJim", "But, those chips are probably inside a custom chip, (to make it smaller and\nuse less power) and the preset/data pins are not going to be available.\nIt would probably not be TTL but might be CMOS \n(wider operating voltage range), not that the tecnology would make \nmuch difference.\nPlus the custom chip would probably be potted (encapsulated with epoxy).\nGood luck.\n\n-- \n--garyl-------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\t\t\"Any shark that gets to be 11 or 12 feet long with \n\t 300 big teeth can be considered dangerous\" - 'Shark Bowl '92'", "\n\ngood but where are these drivers??\n\n\nanybody at Actix listening? Upload the dang drivers to an ftp site pleeeeeeese?!\n\ncheers,\n\nKym\n\n_______________________________________________________________________________\n\nKym A. Burgemeister\nDepartment of Mechanical Engineering\nUniversity of Adelaide\nSouth Australia Ph. +61 8 228 4713\n5005 Facs. +61 8 224 0464", "# \n# I think the original post was searching for existing implementations of\n# f.i. Gouroud-shading of triangles. This is fairly complex to do with plain\n# X. Simpler shading models are implemented already, f.i. in x3d (ask archie\n# where to get the latest version).\n# For Gouroud, a fast implementation will be possible utilizing some extension\n# only, either MIT-SHM to do the shade in an image and fast update the window\n# with it, or PEX/OpenGL which should be able to shade themselves. The portable\n# 'vanilla X' way would be to shade in a normal XImage and use XPutImage(),\n# what would be good enough to do static things as f.i. fractal landscapes\n# or such stuff.\n# \n# To speak about POVRay, the X previewer that comes with the original source\n# package is not that good, especially in speed, protocol-friendlyness and\n# ICCCM compliance. Have a look on x256q, my own preview code. It is on\n# \n# 141.76.1.11:pub/gfx/ray/misc/x256q/\n# \n# The README states the points where it is better than xwindow.c from\n# POVRay 1.0\n# \n\nThe version I have is using the x256q code instead of the default X Windows\ncode. I have it currently running on a DEC Alpha running OpenVMS AXP and\nso far have been pretty impressed. The only \"side-effect\" of x256q is that\nit requires xstdcmap -best be run before it will work, annoyning but not a\nshow stopper.\n\nPatrick L. Mahan\n\n--- TGV Window Washer ------------------------------- Mahan@TGV.COM ---------", "Has anyone successfully programmed this beast using the bootloader pgm\nwith the circuit described in `the little green handbook, pg 9-1`?\n\nDan.\n--\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nAdrian Blockley ! I may say something profound \nEnvironmental science ! here one day. \nMurdoch University ! \nWestern Australia, 6153 ! \nblockley@essun1.murdoch.edu.au ! \nphone 09-360 2737 !", "A weird thing has happened to my computer lately,\nit gets locked (stops doing anything) at any instance\nwithout any reason whatsover. I might be using \nEdit and gets locked, or i might be at the prompt\nat the same occurs. It happens almost once every 3 times\ni connect the computer, Does Anyone have the slight idea\nwhat's wrong with it?\n\n(If i try to use CTRL-ALT-DEL after that, no response. I have\nto turn it off and back on again)\n\nThanks. Any help will be really appreciated.\n\nE-mail if possible as sometimes i can't access this service.", "\nI don't know the answer the to this one, although with 8-bits I would assume\nthat it was one or the other.\n\n\nAccording to the literature, it will do quadruple buffering so that you\ncan have double buffered stereo output.", "Hey,\n\n I am looking for C-algorithm, which decide,whether a 3D-Point is\n inside a space which was defined by 8 x 3D-points.\n With a space defined by 8 x 3D-points, I mean a space defined by\n 6 closed 3D meshes defined by 8 points. Like this :\n\n _____\n / /|\n /____/ |\n | | |\n | | /\n |____|/\n\n\n But in this simple example, the sides are parallel, but my problem,\n the sides can be non parallel and the opposite sides must not have\n the same size etc. Please mail me your informations !\n\n Thanks for your great efforts\n\n Oliver\n", "(stuff deleted)\n\nThe value of these workshops aside, you ought to be able to buy full copies\nof all this software through your campus bookstore or software distributor\nat these rates. I'm not aware that the educational version of Word or Excel\nis doped down in any way.\n\n\n", "\nOff the top of my head, I might try:\n\nGiven: p_1, p_2, p_3, p_4\n\nFind: p_c (center of sphere determined by p_1, ..., p_4), \n dist(p_c, p_i) (radius)\n\np_c is the same distance from our four points, so\ndist(p_c,p_1) = dist(p_c,p_2) = dist(p_c,p_3) = dist(p_c,p_4) \n\nOf course, we can square the whole thing to get rid of square roots:\ndistsq(p_c,p_1) = distsq(p_c,p_2) = distsq(p_c,p_3) = distsq(p_c,p_4) \n\nPlug in the variables into the distance formula, simplify, and the \nx^2_c, y^2_c, and z^2_c terms cancel out, leaving you with three \nlinearly independent equations and three unknowns (x_c, y_c, z_c). \nSolve using your favorite method. :)\n\n\nAll the best,\n\n- John :)\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDr. John S. Eickemeyer :: \"The Lord God is subtle,\nInformation Technology Institute :::: but malicious He is not.\"\nNational Computer Board, Singapore ::\nEmail: johne@iti.gov.sg :: - Albert Einstein", "Archive-name: jpeg-faq\nLast-modified: 2 May 1993\n\nThis FAQ article discusses JPEG image compression. Suggestions for\nadditions and clarifications are welcome.\n\nNew since version of 18 April 1993:\n * New version of XV supports 24-bit viewing for X Windows.\n * New versions of DVPEG & Image Alchemy for DOS.\n * New versions of Image Archiver & PMView for OS/2.\n * New listing: MGIF for monochrome-display Ataris.\n\n\nThis article includes the following sections:\n\n[1] What is JPEG?\n[2] Why use JPEG?\n[3] When should I use JPEG, and when should I stick with GIF?\n[4] How well does JPEG compress images?\n[5] What are good \"quality\" settings for JPEG?\n[6] Where can I get JPEG software?\n [6A] \"canned\" software, viewers, etc.\n [6B] source code\n[7] What's all this hoopla about color quantization?\n[8] How does JPEG work?\n[9] What about lossless JPEG?\n[10] Why all the argument about file formats?\n[11] How do I recognize which file format I have, and what do I do about it?\n[12] What about arithmetic coding?\n[13] Does loss accumulate with repeated compression/decompression?\n[14] What are some rules of thumb for converting GIF images to JPEG?\n\nSections 1-6 are basic info that every JPEG user needs to know;\nsections 7-14 are advanced info for the curious.\n\nThis article is posted every 2 weeks. You can always find the latest version\nin the news.answers archive at rtfm.mit.edu (18.70.0.226). By FTP, fetch\n/pub/usenet/news.answers/jpeg-faq; or if you don't have FTP, send e-mail to\nmail-server@rtfm.mit.edu with body \"send usenet/news.answers/jpeg-faq\".\nMany other FAQ articles are also stored in this archive. For more\ninstructions on use of the archive, send e-mail to the same address with the\nwords \"help\" and \"index\" (no quotes) on separate lines. If you don't get a\nreply, the server may be misreading your return address; add a line such as\n\"path myname@mysite\" to specify your correct e-mail address to reply to.\n\n\n----------\n\n\n[1] What is JPEG?\n\nJPEG (pronounced \"jay-peg\") is a standardized image compression mechanism.\nJPEG stands for Joint Photographic Experts Group, the original name of the\ncommittee that wrote the standard. JPEG is designed for compressing either\nfull-color or gray-scale digital images of \"natural\", real-world scenes.\nIt does not work so well on non-realistic images, such as cartoons or line\ndrawings.\n\nJPEG does not handle black-and-white (1-bit-per-pixel) images, nor does it\nhandle motion picture compression. Standards for compressing those types\nof images are being worked on by other committees, named JBIG and MPEG\nrespectively.\n\nJPEG is \"lossy\", meaning that the image you get out of decompression isn't\nquite identical to what you originally put in. The algorithm achieves much\nof its compression by exploiting known limitations of the human eye, notably\nthe fact that small color details aren't perceived as well as small details\nof light-and-dark. Thus, JPEG is intended for compressing images that will\nbe looked at by humans. If you plan to machine-analyze your images, the\nsmall errors introduced by JPEG may be a problem for you, even if they are\ninvisible to the eye.\n\nA useful property of JPEG is that the degree of lossiness can be varied by\nadjusting compression parameters. This means that the image maker can trade\noff file size against output image quality. You can make *extremely* small\nfiles if you don't mind poor quality; this is useful for indexing image\narchives, making thumbnail views or icons, etc. etc. Conversely, if you\naren't happy with the output quality at the default compression setting, you\ncan jack up the quality until you are satisfied, and accept lesser compression.\n\n\n[2] Why use JPEG?\n\nThere are two good reasons: to make your image files smaller, and to store\n24-bit-per-pixel color data instead of 8-bit-per-pixel data.\n\nMaking image files smaller is a big win for transmitting files across\nnetworks and for archiving libraries of images. Being able to compress a\n2 Mbyte full-color file down to 100 Kbytes or so makes a big difference in\ndisk space and transmission time! (If you are comparing GIF and JPEG, the\nsize ratio is more like four to one. More details below.)\n\nIf your viewing software doesn't support JPEG directly, you'll have to\nconvert JPEG to some other format for viewing or manipulating images. Even\nwith a JPEG-capable viewer, it takes longer to decode and view a JPEG image\nthan to view an image of a simpler format (GIF, for instance). Thus, using\nJPEG is essentially a time/space tradeoff: you give up some time in order to\nstore or transmit an image more cheaply.\n\nIt's worth noting that when network or phone transmission is involved, the\ntime savings from transferring a shorter file can be much greater than the\nextra time to decompress the file. I'll let you do the arithmetic yourself.\n\nThe other reason why JPEG will gradually replace GIF as a standard Usenet\nposting format is that JPEG can store full color information: 24 bits/pixel\n(16 million colors) instead of 8 or less (256 or fewer colors). If you have\nonly 8-bit display hardware then this may not seem like much of an advantage\nto you. Within a couple of years, though, 8-bit GIF will look as obsolete as\nblack-and-white MacPaint format does today. Furthermore, for reasons detailed\nin section 7, JPEG is far more useful than GIF for exchanging images among\npeople with widely varying color display hardware. Hence JPEG is considerably\nmore appropriate than GIF for use as a Usenet posting standard.\n\n\n[3] When should I use JPEG, and when should I stick with GIF?\n\nJPEG is *not* going to displace GIF entirely; for some types of images,\nGIF is superior in image quality, file size, or both. One of the first\nthings to learn about JPEG is which kinds of images to apply it to.\n\nAs a rule of thumb, JPEG is superior to GIF for storing full-color or\ngray-scale images of \"realistic\" scenes; that means scanned photographs and\nsimilar material. JPEG is superior even if you don't have 24-bit display\nhardware, and it is a LOT superior if you do. (See section 7 for details.)\n\nGIF does significantly better on images with only a few distinct colors,\nsuch as cartoons and line drawings. In particular, large areas of pixels\nthat are all *exactly* the same color are compressed very efficiently indeed\nby GIF. JPEG can't squeeze these files as much as GIF does without\nintroducing visible defects. This sort of image is best kept in GIF form.\n(In particular, single-color borders are quite cheap in GIF files, but they\nshould be avoided in JPEG files.)\n\nJPEG also has a hard time with very sharp edges: a row of pure-black pixels\nadjacent to a row of pure-white pixels, for example. Sharp edges tend to\ncome out blurred unless you use a very high quality setting. Again, this\nsort of thing is not found in scanned photographs, but it shows up fairly\noften in GIF files: borders, overlaid text, etc. The blurriness is\nparticularly objectionable with text that's only a few pixels high.\nIf you have a GIF with a lot of small-size overlaid text, don't JPEG it.\n\nComputer-drawn images (ray-traced scenes, for instance) usually fall between\nscanned images and cartoons in terms of complexity. The more complex and\nsubtly rendered the image, the more likely that JPEG will do well on it.\nThe same goes for semi-realistic artwork (fantasy drawings and such).\n\nPlain black-and-white (two level) images should never be converted to JPEG.\nYou need at least about 16 gray levels before JPEG is useful for gray-scale\nimages. It should also be noted that GIF is lossless for gray-scale images\nof up to 256 levels, while JPEG is not.\n\nIf you have an existing library of GIF images, you may wonder whether you\nshould convert them to JPEG. You will lose a little image quality if you do.\n(Section 7, which argues that JPEG image quality is superior to GIF, only\napplies if both formats start from a full-color original. If you start from\na GIF, you've already irretrievably lost a great deal of information; JPEG\ncan only make things worse.) However, the disk space savings may justify\nconverting anyway. This is a decision you'll have to make for yourself.\nIf you do convert a GIF library to JPEG, see section 14 for hints. Be\nprepared to leave some images in GIF format, since some GIFs will not\nconvert well.\n\n\n[4] How well does JPEG compress images?\n\nPretty darn well. Here are some sample file sizes for an image I have\nhandy, a 727x525 full-color image of a ship in a harbor. The first three\nfiles are for comparison purposes; the rest were created with the free JPEG\nsoftware described in section 6B.\n\nFile\t Size in bytes\t\tComments\n\nship.ppm\t1145040 Original file in PPM format (no compression; 24 bits\n\t\t\t or 3 bytes per pixel, plus a few bytes overhead)\nship.ppm.Z\t 963829 PPM file passed through Unix compress\n\t\t\t compress doesn't accomplish a lot, you'll note.\n\t\t\t Other text-oriented compressors give similar results.\nship.gif\t 240438 Converted to GIF with ppmquant -fs 256 | ppmtogif\n\t\t\t Most of the savings is the result of losing color\n\t\t\t info: GIF saves 8 bits/pixel, not 24. (See sec. 7.)\n\nship.jpg95\t 155622 cjpeg -Q 95 (highest useful quality setting)\n\t\t\t This is indistinguishable from the 24-bit original,\n\t\t\t at least to my nonprofessional eyeballs.\nship.jpg75\t 58009 cjpeg -Q 75 (default setting)\n\t\t\t You have to look mighty darn close to distinguish this\n\t\t\t from the original, even with both on-screen at once.\nship.jpg50\t 38406 cjpeg -Q 50\n\t\t\t This has slight defects; if you know what to look\n\t\t\t for, you could tell it's been JPEGed without seeing\n\t\t\t the original. Still as good image quality as many\n\t\t\t recent postings in Usenet pictures groups.\nship.jpg25\t 25192 cjpeg -Q 25\n\t\t\t JPEG's characteristic \"blockiness\" becomes apparent\n\t\t\t at this setting (djpeg -blocksmooth helps some).\n\t\t\t Still, I've seen plenty of Usenet postings that were\n\t\t\t of poorer image quality than this.\nship.jpg5o\t 6587 cjpeg -Q 5 -optimize (-optimize cuts table overhead)\n\t\t\t Blocky, but perfectly satisfactory for preview or\n\t\t\t indexing purposes. Note that this file is TINY:\n\t\t\t the compression ratio from the original is 173:1 !\n\nIn this case JPEG can make a file that's a factor of four or five smaller\nthan a GIF of comparable quality (the -Q 75 file is every bit as good as the\nGIF, better if you have a full-color display). This seems to be a typical\nratio for real-world scenes.\n\n\n[5] What are good \"quality\" settings for JPEG?\n\nMost JPEG compressors let you pick a file size vs. image quality tradeoff by\nselecting a quality setting. There seems to be widespread confusion about\nthe meaning of these settings. \"Quality 95\" does NOT mean \"keep 95% of the\ninformation\", as some have claimed. The quality scale is purely arbitrary;\nit's not a percentage of anything.\n\nThe name of the game in using JPEG is to pick the lowest quality setting\n(smallest file size) that decompresses into an image indistinguishable from\nthe original. This setting will vary from one image to another and from one\nobserver to another, but here are some rules of thumb.\n\nThe default quality setting (-Q 75) is very often the best choice. This\nsetting is about the lowest you can go without expecting to see defects in a\ntypical image. Try -Q 75 first; if you see defects, then go up. Except for\nexperimental purposes, never go above -Q 95; saying -Q 100 will produce a\nfile two or three times as large as -Q 95, but of hardly any better quality.\n\nIf the image was less than perfect quality to begin with, you might be able to\ngo down to -Q 50 without objectionable degradation. On the other hand, you\nmight need to go to a HIGHER quality setting to avoid further degradation.\nThe second case seems to apply much of the time when converting GIFs to JPEG.\nThe default -Q 75 is about right for compressing 24-bit images, but -Q 85 to\n95 is usually better for converting GIFs (see section 14 for more info).\n\nIf you want a very small file (say for preview or indexing purposes) and are\nprepared to tolerate large defects, a -Q setting in the range of 5 to 10 is\nabout right. -Q 2 or so may be amusing as \"op art\".\n\n(Note: the quality settings discussed in this article apply to the free JPEG\nsoftware described in section 6B, and to many programs based on it. Other\nJPEG implementations, such as Image Alchemy, may use a completely different\nquality scale. Some programs don't even provide a numeric scale, just\n\"high\"/\"medium\"/\"low\"-style choices.)\n\n\n[6] Where can I get JPEG software?\n\nMost of the programs described in this section are available by FTP.\nIf you don't know how to use FTP, see the FAQ article \"How to find sources\".\n(If you don't have direct access to FTP, read about ftpmail servers in the\nsame article.) That article appears regularly in news.answers, or you can\nget it by sending e-mail to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu with\n\"send usenet/news.answers/finding-sources\" in the body. The \"Anonymous FTP\nList FAQ\" may also be helpful --- it's usenet/news.answers/ftp-list/faq in\nthe news.answers archive.\n\nNOTE: this list changes constantly. If you have a copy more than a couple\nmonths old, get the latest JPEG FAQ from the news.answers archive.\n\n\n[6A] If you are looking for \"canned\" software, viewers, etc:\n\nThe first part of this list is system-specific programs that only run on one\nkind of system. If you don't see what you want for your machine, check out\nthe portable JPEG software described at the end of the list. Note that this\nlist concentrates on free and shareware programs that you can obtain over\nInternet; but some commercial programs are listed too.\n\nX Windows:\n\nXV (shareware, $25) is an excellent viewer for JPEG, GIF, and many other\nimage formats. It can also do format conversion and some simple image\nmanipulations. It's available for FTP from export.lcs.mit.edu (18.24.0.12),\nfile contrib/xv-3.00.tar.Z. Version 3.00 is a major upgrade with support\nfor 24-bit displays and many other improvements; however, it is brand new\nand still has some bugs lurking. If you prefer not to be on the bleeding\nedge, stick with version 2.21, also available from export. Note that\nversion 2.21 is not a good choice if you have a 24-bit display (you'll get\nonly 8-bit color), nor for converting 24-bit images to JPEG. But 2.21 works\nfine for converting GIF and other 8-bit images to JPEG. CAUTION: there is a\nglitch in version 2.21: be sure to check the \"save at normal size\" checkbox\nwhen saving a JPEG file, or the file will be blurry.\n\nAnother good choice for X Windows is John Cristy's free ImageMagick package,\nalso available from export.lcs.mit.edu, file contrib/ImageMagick.tar.Z.\nThis package handles many image processing and conversion tasks. The\nImageMagick viewer handles 24-bit displays correctly; for colormapped\ndisplays, it does better (though slower) color quantization than XV or the\nbasic free JPEG software.\n\nBoth of the above are large, complex packages. If you just want a simple\nimage viewer, try xloadimage or xli. xloadimage supports JPEG in its latest\nrelease, 3.03. xloadimage is free and available from export.lcs.mit.edu,\nfile contrib/xloadimage-3.03.tar.Z. xli is a variant version of xloadimage,\nsaid by its fans to be somewhat faster and more robust than the original.\n(The current xli is indeed faster and more robust than the current\nxloadimage, at least with respect to JPEG files, because it has the IJG v4\ndecoder while xloadimage 3.03 is using a hacked-over v1. The next\nxloadimage release will fix this.) xli is also free and available from\nexport.lcs.mit.edu, file contrib/xli.1.14.tar.Z. Both programs are said\nto do the right thing with 24-bit displays.\n\n\nMS-DOS:\n\nThis covers plain DOS; for Windows or OS/2 programs, see the next headings.\n\nOne good choice is Eric Praetzel's free DVPEG, which views JPEG and GIF files.\nThe current version, 2.5, is available by FTP from sunee.uwaterloo.ca\n(129.97.50.50), file pub/jpeg/viewers/dvpeg25.zip. This is a good basic\nviewer that works on either 286 or 386/486 machines. The user interface is\nnot flashy, but it's functional.\n\nAnother freeware JPEG/GIF/TGA viewer is Mohammad Rezaei's Hiview. The\ncurrent version, 1.2, is available from Simtel20 and mirror sites (see NOTE\nbelow), file msdos/graphics/hv12.zip. Hiview requires a 386 or better CPU\nand a VCPI-compatible memory manager (QEMM386 and 386MAX work; Windows and\nOS/2 do not). Hiview is currently the fastest viewer for images that are no\nbigger than your screen. For larger images, it scales the image down to fit\non the screen (rather than using panning/scrolling as most viewers do).\nYou may or may not prefer this approach, but there's no denying that it\nslows down loading of large images considerably. Note: installation is a\nbit tricky; read the directions carefully!\n\nA shareware alternative is ColorView for DOS ($30). This is easier to\ninstall than either of the two freeware alternatives. Its user interface is\nalso much spiffier-looking, although personally I find it harder to use ---\nmore keystrokes, inconsistent behavior. It is faster than DVPEG but a\nlittle slower than Hiview, at least on my hardware. (For images larger than\nscreen size, DVPEG and ColorView seem to be about the same speed, and both\nare faster than Hiview.) The current version is 2.1, available from\nSimtel20 and mirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/graphics/dcview21.zip.\nRequires a VESA graphics driver; if you don't have one, look in vesadrv2.zip\nor vesa-tsr.zip from the same directory. (Many recent PCs have a built-in\nVESA driver, so don't try to load a VESA driver unless ColorView complains\nthat the driver is missing.)\n\nA second shareware alternative is Fullview, which has been kicking around\nthe net for a while, but I don't know any stable archive location for it.\nThe current (rather old) version is inferior to the above viewers anyway.\nThe author tells me that a new version of Fullview will be out shortly\nand it will be submitted to the Simtel20 archives at that time.\n\nThe well-known GIF viewer CompuShow (CSHOW) supports JPEG in its latest\nrevision, 8.60a. However, CSHOW's JPEG implementation isn't very good:\nit's slow (about half the speed of the above viewers) and image quality is\npoor except on hi-color displays. Too bad ... it'd have been nice to see a\ngood JPEG capability in CSHOW. Shareware, $25. Available from Simtel20 and\nmirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/gif/cshw860a.zip.\n\nDue to the remarkable variety of PC graphics hardware, any one of these\nviewers might not work on your particular machine. If you can't get *any*\nof them to work, you'll need to use one of the following conversion programs\nto convert JPEG to GIF, then view with your favorite GIF viewer. (If you\nhave hi-color hardware, don't use GIF as the intermediate format; try to\nfind a TARGA-capable viewer instead. VPIC5.0 is reputed to do the right\nthing with hi-color displays.)\n\nThe Independent JPEG Group's free JPEG converters are FTPable from Simtel20\nand mirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/graphics/jpeg4.zip (or\njpeg4386.zip if you have a 386 and extended memory). These files are DOS\ncompilations of the free source code described in section 6B; they will\nconvert JPEG to and from GIF, Targa, and PPM formats.\n\nHandmade Software offers free JPEG<=>GIF conversion tools, GIF2JPG/JPG2GIF.\nThese are slow and are limited to conversion to and from GIF format; in\nparticular, you can't get 24-bit color output from a JPEG. The major\nadvantage of these tools is that they will read and write HSI's proprietary\nJPEG format as well as the Usenet-standard JFIF format. Since HSI-format\nfiles are rather widespread on BBSes, this is a useful capability. Version\n2.0 of these tools is free (prior versions were shareware). Get it from\nSimtel20 and mirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/graphics/gif2jpg2.zip.\nNOTE: do not use HSI format for files to be posted on Internet, since it is\nnot readable on non-PC platforms.\n\nHandmade Software also has a shareware image conversion and manipulation\npackage, Image Alchemy. This will translate JPEG files (both JFIF and HSI\nformats) to and from many other image formats. It can also display images.\nA demo version of Image Alchemy version 1.6.2 is available from Simtel20 and\nmirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/graphics/alch162.zip.\n\nNOTE ABOUT SIMTEL20: The Internet's key archive site for PC-related programs\nis Simtel20, full name wsmr-simtel20.army.mil (192.88.110.20). Simtel20\nruns a non-Unix system with weird directory names; where this document\nrefers to directory (eg) \"msdos/graphics\" at Simtel20, that really means\n\"pd1:\". If you are not physically on MILnet, you should\nexpect rather slow FTP transfer rates from Simtel20. There are several\nInternet sites that maintain copies (mirrors) of the Simtel20 archives;\nmost FTP users should go to one of the mirror sites instead. A popular USA\nmirror site is oak.oakland.edu (141.210.10.117), which keeps Simtel20 files\nin (eg) \"/pub/msdos/graphics\". If you have no FTP capability, you can\nretrieve files from Simtel20 by e-mail; see informational postings in\ncomp.archives.msdos.announce to find out how. If you are outside the USA,\nconsult the same newsgroup to learn where your nearest Simtel20 mirror is.\n\nMicrosoft Windows:\n\nThere are several Windows programs capable of displaying JPEG images.\n(Windows viewers are generally slower than DOS viewers on the same hardware,\ndue to Windows' system overhead. Note that you can run the DOS conversion\nprograms described above inside a Windows DOS window.)\n\nThe newest entry is WinECJ, which is free and EXTREMELY fast. Version 1.0\nis available from ftp.rahul.net, file /pub/bryanw/pc/jpeg/wecj.zip.\nRequires Windows 3.1 and 256-or-more-colors mode. This is a no-frills\nviewer with the bad habit of hogging the machine completely while it\ndecodes; and the image quality is noticeably worse than other viewers.\nBut it's so fast you'll use it anyway, at least for previewing...\n\nJView is freeware, fairly fast, has good on-line help, and can write out the\ndecompressed image in Windows BMP format; but it can't create new JPEG\nfiles, and it doesn't view GIFs. JView also lacks some other useful\nfeatures of the shareware viewers (such as brightness adjustment), but it's\nan excellent basic viewer. The current version, 0.9, is available from\nftp.cica.indiana.edu (129.79.20.84), file pub/pc/win3/desktop/jview090.zip.\n(Mirrors of this archive can be found at some other Internet sites,\nincluding wuarchive.wustl.edu.)\n\nWinJPEG (shareware, $20) displays JPEG,GIF,Targa,TIFF, and BMP image files;\nit can write all of these formats too, so it can be used as a converter.\nIt has some other nifty features including color-balance adjustment and\nslideshow. The current version is 2.1, available from Simtel20 and mirror\nsites (see NOTE above), file msdos/windows3/winjp210.zip. (This is a slow\n286-compatible version; if you register, you'll get the 386-only version,\nwhich is roughly 25% faster.)\n\nColorView is another shareware entry ($30). This was an early and promising\ncontender, but it has not been updated in some time, and at this point it\nhas no real advantages over WinJPEG. If you want to try it anyway, the\ncurrent version is 0.97, available from ftp.cica.indiana.edu, file\npub/pc/win3/desktop/cview097.zip. (I understand that a new version will\nbe appearing once the authors are finished with ColorView for DOS.)\n\nDVPEG (see DOS heading) also works under Windows, but only in full-screen\nmode, not in a window.\n\nOS/2:\n\nThe following files are available from hobbes.nmsu.edu (128.123.35.151).\nNote: check /pub/uploads for more recent versions --- the hobbes moderator\nis not very fast about moving uploads into their permanent directories.\n/pub/os2/2.x/graphics/jpegv4.zip\n 32-bit version of free IJG conversion programs, version 4.\n/pub/os2/all/graphics/jpeg4-16.zip\n 16-bit version of same, for OS/2 1.x.\n/pub/os2/2.x/graphics/imgarc12.zip\n Image Archiver 1.02: image conversion/viewing with PM graphical interface.\n Strong on conversion functions, viewing is a bit weaker. Shareware, $15.\n/pub/os2/2.x/graphics/pmjpeg11.zip\n PMJPEG 1.1: OS/2 2.x port of WinJPEG, a popular viewer for Windows\n (see description in Windows section). Shareware, $20.\n/pub/os2/2.x/graphics/pmview85.zip\n PMView 0.85: JPEG/GIF/BMP viewer. GIF viewing very fast, JPEG viewing\n fast if you have huge amounts of RAM, otherwise about the same speed\n as the above programs. Strong 24-bit display support. Shareware, $20.\n\nMacintosh:\n\nMost Mac JPEG programs rely on Apple's JPEG implementation, which is part of\nthe QuickTime system extension; so you need to have QuickTime installed.\nTo use QuickTime, you need a 68020 or better CPU and you need to be running\nSystem 6.0.7 or later. (If you're running System 6, you must also install\nthe 32-bit QuickDraw extension; this is built-in on System 7.) You can get\nQuickTime by FTP from ftp.apple.com, file dts/mac/quicktime/quicktime.hqx.\n(As of 11/92, this file contains QuickTime 1.5, which is better than QT 1.0\nin several ways. With respect to JPEG, it is marginally faster and\nconsiderably less prone to crash when fed a corrupt JPEG file. However,\nsome applications seem to have compatibility problems with QT 1.5.)\n\nMac users should keep in mind that QuickTime's JPEG format, PICT/JPEG, is\nnot the same as the Usenet-standard JFIF JPEG format. (See section 10 for\ndetails.) If you post images on Usenet, make sure they are in JFIF format.\nMost of the programs mentioned below can generate either format.\n\nThe first choice is probably JPEGView, a free program for viewing images\nthat are in JFIF format, PICT/JPEG format, or GIF format. It also can\nconvert between the two JPEG formats. The current version, 2.0, is a big\nimprovement over prior versions. Get it from sumex-aim.stanford.edu\n(36.44.0.6), file /info-mac/app/jpeg-view-20.hqx. Requires System 7 and\nQuickTime. On 8-bit displays, JPEGView usually produces the best color\nimage quality of all the currently available Mac JPEG viewers. JPEGView can\nview large images in much less memory than other Mac viewers; in fact, it's\nthe only one that can deal with JPEG images much over 640x480 pixels on a\ntypical 4MB Mac. Given a large image, JPEGView automatically scales it down\nto fit on the screen, rather than presenting scroll bars like most other\nviewers. (You can zoom in on any desired portion, though.) Some people\nlike this behavior, some don't. Overall, JPEGView's user interface is very\nwell thought out.\n\nGIFConverter, a shareware ($40) image viewer/converter, supports JFIF and\nPICT/JPEG, as well as GIF and several other image formats. The latest\nversion is 2.3.2. Get it from sumex-aim.stanford.edu, file\n/info-mac/art/gif/gif-converter-232.hqx. Requires System 6.0.5 or later.\nGIFConverter is not better than JPEGView as a plain JPEG/GIF viewer, but\nit has much more extensive image manipulation and format conversion\ncapabilities, so you may find it worth its shareware fee if you do a lot of\nplaying around with images. Also, the newest version of GIFConverter can\nload and save JFIF images *without* QuickTime, so it is your best bet if\nyour machine is too old to run QuickTime. (But it's faster with QuickTime.)\nNote: If GIFConverter runs out of memory trying to load a large JPEG, try\nconverting the file to GIF with JPEG Convert, then viewing the GIF version.\n\nJPEG Convert, a Mac version of the free IJG JPEG conversion utilities, is\navailable from sumex-aim.stanford.edu, file /info-mac/app/jpeg-convert-10.hqx.\nThis will run on any Mac, but it only does file conversion, not viewing.\nYou can use it in conjunction with any GIF viewer.\n\nPrevious versions of this FAQ recommended Imagery JPEG v0.6, a JPEG<=>GIF\nconverter based on an old version of the IJG code. If you are using this\nprogram, you definitely should replace it with JPEG Convert.\n\nApple's free program PictPixie can view images in JFIF, QuickTime JPEG, and\nGIF format, and can convert between these formats. You can get PictPixie\nfrom ftp.apple.com, file dts/mac/quicktime/qt.1.0.stuff/pictpixie.hqx.\nRequires QuickTime. PictPixie was intended as a developer's tool, and it's\nreally not the best choice unless you like to fool around with QuickTime.\nSome of its drawbacks are that it requires lots of memory, it produces\nrelatively poor color image quality on anything less than a 24-bit display,\nand it has a relatively unfriendly user interface. Worse, PictPixie is an\nunsupported program, meaning it has some minor bugs that Apple does not\nintend to fix. (There is an old version of PictPixie, called\nPICTCompressor, floating around the net. If you have this you should trash\nit, as it's even buggier. Also, the QuickTime Starter Kit includes a much\ncleaned-up descendant of PictPixie called Picture Compressor. Note that\nPicture Compressor is NOT free and may not be distributed on the net.)\n\nStorm Technology's Picture Decompress is a free JPEG viewer/converter.\nThis rather old program is inferior to the above programs in many ways, but\nit will run without System 7 or QuickTime, so you may be forced to use it on\nolder systems. (It does need 32-bit QuickDraw, so really old machines can't\nuse it.) You can get it from sumex-aim.stanford.edu, file\n/info-mac/app/picture-decompress-201.hqx. You must set the file type of a\ndownloaded image file to 'JPEG' to allow Picture Decompress to open it.\n\nIf your machine is too old to run 32-bit QuickDraw (a Mac Plus for instance),\nGIFConverter is your only choice for single-program JPEG viewing. If you\ndon't want to pay for GIFConverter, use JPEG Convert and a free GIF viewer.\n\nMore and more commercial Mac applications are supporting JPEG, although not\nall can deal with the Usenet-standard JFIF format. Adobe Photoshop, version\n2.0.1 or later, can read and write JFIF-format JPEG files (use the JPEG\nplug-in from the Acquire menu). You must set the file type of a downloaded\nJPEG file to 'JPEG' to allow Photoshop to recognize it.\n\nAmiga:\n\n(Most programs listed in this section are stored in the AmiNet archive at\namiga.physik.unizh.ch (130.60.80.80). There are many mirror sites of this\narchive and you should try to use the closest one. In the USA, a good\nchoice is wuarchive.wustl.edu; look under /mirrors/amiga.physik.unizh.ch/...)\n\nHamLab Plus is an excellent JPEG viewer/converter, as well as being a\ngeneral image manipulation tool. It's cheap (shareware, $20) and can read\nseveral formats besides JPEG. The current version is 2.0.8. A demo version\nis available from amiga.physik.unizh.ch (and mirror sites), file\namiga/gfx/edit/hamlab208d.lha. The demo version will crop images larger\nthan 512x512, but it is otherwise fully functional.\n\nRend24 (shareware, $30) is an image renderer that can display JPEG, ILBM,\nand GIF images. The program can be used to create animations, even\ncapturing frames on-the-fly from rendering packages like Lightwave. The\ncurrent version is 1.05, available from amiga.physik.unizh.ch (and mirror\nsites), file amiga/os30/gfx/rend105.lha. (Note: although this directory is\nsupposedly for AmigaDOS 3.0 programs, the program will also run under\nAmigaDOS 1.3, 2.04 or 2.1.)\n\nViewtek is a free JPEG/ILBM/GIF/ANIM viewer. The current version is 1.04,\navailable from amiga.physik.unizh.ch (and mirror sites), file\namiga/gfx/show/ViewTek104.lha.\n\nIf you're willing to spend real money, there are several commercial packages\nthat support JPEG. Two are written by Thomas Krehbiel, the author of Rend24\nand Viewtek. These are CineMorph, a standalone image morphing package, and\nImageFX, an impressive 24-bit image capture, conversion, editing, painting,\neffects and prepress package that also includes CineMorph. Both are\ndistributed by Great Valley Products. Art Department Professional (ADPro),\nfrom ASDG Inc, is the most widely used commercial image manipulation\nsoftware for Amigas. ImageMaster, from Black Belt Systems, is another\nwell-regarded commercial graphics package with JPEG support.\n\nThe free IJG JPEG software is available compiled for Amigas from\namiga.physik.unizh.ch (and mirror sites) in directory amiga/gfx/conv, file\nAmigaJPEGV4.lha. These programs convert JPEG to/from PPM,GIF,Targa formats.\n\nThe Amiga world is heavily infested with quick-and-dirty JPEG programs, many\nbased on an ancient beta-test version of the free IJG JPEG software (thanks\nto a certain magazine that published same on its disk-of-the-month, without\nso much as notifying the authors). Among these are \"AugJPEG\", \"NewAmyJPEG\",\n\"VJPEG\", and probably others I have not even heard of. In my opinion,\nanything older than IJG version 3 (March 1992) is not worth the disk space\nit's stored on; if you have such a program, trash it and get something newer.\n\nAtari ST:\n\nThe free IJG JPEG software is available compiled for Atari ST, TT, etc,\nfrom atari.archive.umich.edu, file /atari/Graphics/jpeg4bin.zoo.\nThese programs convert JPEG to/from PPM, GIF, Targa formats.\n\nFor monochrome ST monitors, try MGIF, which manages to achieve four-level\ngrayscale effect by flickering. Version 4.1 reads JPEG files. Available\nfrom atari.archive.umich.edu, file /atari/Graphics/mgif41b.zoo.\n\nI have not heard of any other free or shareware JPEG-capable viewers for\nAtaris, but surely there must be some by now? Pointers appreciated.\n\nAcorn Archimedes:\n\n!ChangeFSI, supplied with RISC OS 3 version 3.10, can convert from and view\nJPEG JFIF format. Provision is also made to convert images to JPEG,\nalthough this must be done from the CLI rather than by double-clicking.\n\nRecent versions (since 7.11) of the shareware program Translator can handle\nJPEG, along with about 30 other image formats. While older versions can be\nfound on some Archimedes bboards, the current version is only available by\nregistering with the author, John Kortink, Nutterbrink 31, 7544 WJ, Enschede,\nThe Netherlands. Price 35 Dutch guilders (about $22 or 10 pounds).\n\nThere's also a commercial product called !JPEG which provides JPEG read/write\nfunctionality and direct JPEG viewing, as well as a host of other image\nformat conversion and processing options. This is more expensive but not\nnecessarily better than the above programs. Contact: DT Software, FREEPOST,\nCambridge, UK. Tel: 0223 841099.\n\n\nPortable software for almost any system:\n\nIf none of the above fits your situation, you can obtain and compile the free\nJPEG conversion software described in 6B. You'll also need a viewer program.\nIf your display is 8 bits or less, any GIF viewer will do fine; if you have a\ndisplay with more color capability, try to find a viewer that can read Targa\nor PPM 24-bit image files.\n\nThere are numerous commercial JPEG offerings, with more popping up every\nday. I recommend that you not spend money on one of these unless you find\nthe available free or shareware software vastly too slow. In that case,\npurchase a hardware-assisted product. Ask pointed questions about whether\nthe product complies with the final JPEG standard and about whether it can\nhandle the JFIF file format; many of the earliest commercial releases are\nnot and never will be compatible with anyone else's files.\n\n\n[6B] If you are looking for source code to work with:\n\nFree, portable C code for JPEG compression is available from the Independent\nJPEG Group, which I lead. A package containing our source code,\ndocumentation, and some small test files is available from several places.\nThe \"official\" archive site for this source code is ftp.uu.net (137.39.1.9\nor 192.48.96.9). Look under directory /graphics/jpeg; the current release\nis jpegsrc.v4.tar.Z. (This is a compressed TAR file; don't forget to\nretrieve in binary mode.) You can retrieve this file by FTP or UUCP.\nIf you are on a PC and don't know how to cope with .tar.Z format, you may\nprefer ZIP format, which you can find at Simtel20 and mirror sites (see NOTE\nabove), file msdos/graphics/jpegsrc4.zip. This file will also be available on\nCompuServe, in the GRAPHSUPPORT forum (GO PICS), library 15, as jpsrc4.zip.\nIf you have no FTP access, you can retrieve the source from your nearest\ncomp.sources.misc archive; version 4 appeared as issues 55-72 of volume 34.\n(If you don't know how to retrieve comp.sources.misc postings, see the FAQ\narticle \"How to find sources\", referred to at the top of section 6.)\n\nThe free JPEG code provides conversion between JPEG \"JFIF\" format and image\nfiles in GIF, PBMPLUS PPM/PGM, Utah RLE, and Truevision Targa file formats.\nThe core compression and decompression modules can easily be reused in other\nprograms, such as image viewers. The package is highly portable; we have\ntested it on many machines ranging from PCs to Crays.\n\nWe have released this software for both noncommercial and commercial use.\nCompanies are welcome to use it as the basis for JPEG-related products.\nWe do not ask a royalty, although we do ask for an acknowledgement in\nproduct literature (see the README file in the distribution for details).\nWe hope to make this software industrial-quality --- although, as with\nanything that's free, we offer no warranty and accept no liability.\n\nThe Independent JPEG Group is a volunteer organization; if you'd like to\ncontribute to improving our software, you are welcome to join.\n\n\n[7] What's all this hoopla about color quantization?\n\nMost people don't have full-color (24 bit per pixel) display hardware.\nTypical display hardware stores 8 or fewer bits per pixel, so it can display\n256 or fewer distinct colors at a time. To display a full-color image, the\ncomputer must map the image into an appropriate set of representative\ncolors. This process is called \"color quantization\". (This is something\nof a misnomer, \"color selection\" would be a better term. We're stuck with\nthe standard usage though.)\n\nClearly, color quantization is a lossy process. It turns out that for most\nimages, the details of the color quantization algorithm have MUCH more impact\non the final image quality than do any errors introduced by JPEG (except at\nthe very lowest JPEG quality settings).\n\nSince JPEG is a full-color format, converting a color JPEG image for display\non 8-bit-or-less hardware requires color quantization. This is true for\n*all* color JPEGs: even if you feed a 256-or-less-color GIF into JPEG, what\ncomes out of the decompressor is *not* 256 colors, but thousands of colors.\nThis happens because JPEG's lossiness affects each pixel a little\ndifferently, so two pixels that started with identical colors will probably\ncome out with slightly different colors. Each original color gets \"smeared\"\ninto a group of nearby colors. Therefore quantization is always required to\ndisplay a color JPEG on a colormapped display, regardless of the image\nsource. The only way to avoid quantization is to ask for gray-scale output.\n\n(Incidentally, because of this effect it's nearly meaningless to talk about\nthe number of colors used by a JPEG image. Even if you attempted to count\nthe number of distinct pixel values, different JPEG decoders would give you\ndifferent results because of roundoff error differences. I occasionally see\nposted images described as \"256-color JPEG\". This tells me that the poster\n(a) hasn't read this FAQ and (b) probably converted the JPEG from a GIF.\nJPEGs can be classified as color or gray-scale (just like photographs), but\nnumber of colors just isn't a useful concept for JPEG.)\n\nOn the other hand, a GIF image by definition has already been quantized to\n256 or fewer colors. (A GIF *does* have a definite number of colors in its\npalette, and the format doesn't allow more than 256 palette entries.)\nFor purposes of Usenet picture distribution, GIF has the advantage that the\nsender precomputes the color quantization, so recipients don't have to.\nThis is also the *disadvantage* of GIF: you're stuck with the sender's\nquantization. If the sender quantized to a different number of colors than\nwhat you can display, you have to re-quantize, resulting in much poorer\nimage quality than if you had quantized once from a full-color image.\nFurthermore, if the sender didn't use a high-quality color quantization\nalgorithm, you're out of luck.\n\nFor this reason, JPEG offers the promise of significantly better image quality\nfor all users whose machines don't match the sender's display hardware.\nJPEG's full color image can be quantized to precisely match the user's display\nhardware. Furthermore, you will be able to take advantage of future\nimprovements in quantization algorithms (there is a lot of active research in\nthis area), or purchase better display hardware, to get a better view of JPEG\nimages you already have. With a GIF, you're stuck forevermore with what was\nsent.\n\nIt's also worth mentioning that many GIF-viewing programs include rather\nshoddy quantization routines. If you view a 256-color GIF on a 16-color EGA\ndisplay, for example, you are probably getting a much worse image than you\nneed to. This is partly an inevitable consequence of doing two color\nquantizations (one to create the GIF, one to display it), but often it's\nalso due to sloppiness. JPEG conversion programs will be forced to use\nhigh quality quantizers in order to get acceptable results at all, and in\nnormal use they will quantize directly to the number of colors to be\ndisplayed. Thus, JPEG is likely to provide better results than the average\nGIF program for low-color-resolution displays as well as high-resolution ones!\n\nFinally, an ever-growing number of people have better-than-8-bit display\nhardware already: 15-bit \"hi-color\" PC displays, true 24-bit displays on\nworkstations and Macintoshes, etc. For these people, GIF is already\nobsolete, as it cannot represent an image to the full capabilities of their\ndisplay. JPEG images can drive these displays much more effectively.\nThus, JPEG is an all-around better choice than GIF for representing images\nin a machine-independent fashion.\n\n\n[8] How does JPEG work?\n\nThe buzz-words to know are chrominance subsampling, discrete cosine\ntransforms, coefficient quantization, and Huffman or arithmetic entropy\ncoding. This article's long enough already, so I'm not going to say more\nthan that here. For technical information, see the comp.compression FAQ.\nThis is available from the news.answers archive at rtfm.mit.edu, in files\n/pub/usenet/news.answers/compression-faq/part[1-3]. If you need help in\nusing the news.answers archive, see the top of this article.\n\n\n[9] What about lossless JPEG?\n\nThere's a great deal of confusion on this subject. The JPEG committee did\ndefine a truly lossless compression algorithm, i.e., one that guarantees the\nfinal output is bit-for-bit identical to the original input. However, this\nlossless mode has almost nothing in common with the regular, lossy JPEG\nalgorithm, and it offers much less compression. At present, very few\nimplementations of lossless JPEG exist, and all of them are commercial.\n\nSaying \"-Q 100\" to the free JPEG software DOES NOT get you a lossless image.\nWhat it does get rid of is deliberate information loss in the coefficient\nquantization step. There is still a good deal of information loss in the\ncolor subsampling step. (With the V4 free JPEG code, you can also say\n\"-sample 1x1\" to turn off subsampling. Keep in mind that many commercial\nJPEG implementations cannot cope with the resulting file.)\n\nEven with both quantization and subsampling turned off, the regular JPEG\nalgorithm is not lossless, because it is subject to roundoff errors in\nvarious calculations. The maximum error is a few counts in any one pixel\nvalue; it's highly unlikely that this could be perceived by the human eye,\nbut it might be a concern if you are doing machine processing of an image.\n\nAt this minimum-loss setting, regular JPEG produces files that are perhaps\nhalf the size of an uncompressed 24-bit-per-pixel image. True lossless JPEG\nprovides roughly the same amount of compression, but it guarantees\nbit-for-bit accuracy.\n\nIf you have an application requiring lossless storage of images with less\nthan 6 bits per pixel (per color component), you may want to look into the\nJBIG bilevel image compression standard. This performs better than JPEG\nlossless on such images. JPEG lossless is superior to JBIG on images with\n6 or more bits per pixel; furthermore, JPEG is public domain (at least with a\nHuffman back end), while the JBIG techniques are heavily covered by patents.\n\n\n[10] Why all the argument about file formats?\n\nStrictly speaking, JPEG refers only to a family of compression algorithms;\nit does *not* refer to a specific image file format. The JPEG committee was\nprevented from defining a file format by turf wars within the international\nstandards organizations.\n\nSince we can't actually exchange images with anyone else unless we agree on\na common file format, this leaves us with a problem. In the absence of\nofficial standards, a number of JPEG program writers have just gone off to\n\"do their own thing\", and as a result their programs aren't compatible with\nanybody else's.\n\nThe closest thing we have to a de-facto standard JPEG format is some work\nthat's been coordinated by people at C-Cube Microsystems. They have defined\ntwo JPEG-based file formats:\n * JFIF (JPEG File Interchange Format), a \"low-end\" format that transports\n pixels and not much else.\n * TIFF/JPEG, aka TIFF 6.0, an extension of the Aldus TIFF format. TIFF is\n a \"high-end\" format that will let you record just about everything you\n ever wanted to know about an image, and a lot more besides :-). TIFF is\n a lot more complex than JFIF, and may well prove less transportable,\n because different vendors have historically implemented slightly different\n and incompatible subsets of TIFF. It's not likely that adding JPEG to the\n mix will do anything to improve this situation.\nBoth of these formats were developed with input from all the major vendors\nof JPEG-related products; it's reasonably likely that future commercial\nproducts will adhere to one or both standards.\n\nI believe that Usenet should adopt JFIF as the replacement for GIF in\npicture postings. JFIF is simpler than TIFF and is available now; the\nTIFF 6.0 spec has only recently been officially adopted, and it is still\nunusably vague on some crucial details. Even when TIFF/JPEG is well\ndefined, the JFIF format is likely to be a widely supported \"lowest common\ndenominator\"; TIFF/JPEG files may never be as transportable.\n\nA particular case that people may be interested in is Apple's QuickTime\nsoftware for the Macintosh. QuickTime uses a JFIF-compatible format wrapped\ninside the Mac-specific PICT structure. Conversion between JFIF and\nQuickTime JPEG is pretty straightforward, and several Mac programs are\navailable to do it (see Mac portion of section 6A). If you have an editor\nthat handles binary files, you can strip a QuickTime JPEG PICT down to JFIF\nby hand; see section 11 for details.\n\nAnother particular case is Handmade Software's programs (GIF2JPG/JPG2GIF and\nImage Alchemy). These programs are capable of reading and writing JFIF\nformat. By default, though, they write a proprietary format developed by\nHSI. This format is NOT readable by any non-HSI programs and should not be\nused for Usenet postings. Use the -j switch to get JFIF output. (This\napplies to old versions of these programs; the current releases emit JFIF\nformat by default. You still should be careful not to post HSI-format\nfiles, unless you want to get flamed by people on non-PC platforms.)\n\n\n[11] How do I recognize which file format I have, and what do I do about it?\n\nIf you have an alleged JPEG file that your software won't read, it's likely\nto be HSI format or some other proprietary JPEG-based format. You can tell\nwhat you have by inspecting the first few bytes of the file:\n\n1. A JFIF-standard file will start with the characters (hex) FF D8 FF E0,\n followed by two variable bytes (often hex 00 10), followed by 'JFIF'.\n\n2. If you see FF D8 at the start, but not the rest of it, you may have a\n \"raw JPEG\" file. This is probably decodable as-is by JFIF software ---\n it's worth a try, anyway.\n\n3. HSI files start with 'hsi1'. You're out of luck unless you have HSI\n software. Portions of the file may look like plain JPEG data, but they\n won't decompress properly with non-HSI programs.\n\n4. A Macintosh PICT file, if JPEG-compressed, will have a couple hundred\n bytes of header followed by a JFIF header (scan for 'JFIF'). Strip off\n everything before the FF D8 and you should be able to read it.\n\n5. Anything else: it's a proprietary format, or not JPEG at all. If you are\n lucky, the file may consist of a header and a raw JPEG data stream.\n If you can identify the start of the JPEG data stream (look for FF D8),\n try stripping off everything before that.\n\nIn uuencoded Usenet postings, the characteristic JFIF pattern is\n\n\t\"begin\" line\n\tM_]C_X ...\n\nwhereas uuencoded HSI files will start with\n\n\t\"begin\" line\n\tM:'-I ...\n\nIf you learn to check for the former, you can save yourself the trouble of\ndownloading non-JFIF files.\n\n\n[12] What about arithmetic coding?\n\nThe JPEG spec defines two different \"back end\" modules for the final output\nof compressed data: either Huffman coding or arithmetic coding is allowed.\nThe choice has no impact on image quality, but arithmetic coding usually\nproduces a smaller compressed file. On typical images, arithmetic coding\nproduces a file 5 or 10 percent smaller than Huffman coding. (All the\nfile-size numbers previously cited are for Huffman coding.)\n\nUnfortunately, the particular variant of arithmetic coding specified by the\nJPEG standard is subject to patents owned by IBM, AT&T, and Mitsubishi.\nThus *you cannot legally use arithmetic coding* unless you obtain licenses\nfrom these companies. (The \"fair use\" doctrine allows people to implement\nand test the algorithm, but actually storing any images with it is dubious\nat best.)\n\nAt least in the short run, I recommend that people not worry about\narithmetic coding; the space savings isn't great enough to justify the\npotential legal hassles. In particular, arithmetic coding *should not*\nbe used for any images to be exchanged on Usenet.\n\nThere is some small chance that the legal situation may change in the\nfuture. Stay tuned for further details.\n\n\n[13] Does loss accumulate with repeated compression/decompression?\n\nIt would be nice if, having compressed an image with JPEG, you could\ndecompress it, manipulate it (crop off a border, say), and recompress it\nwithout any further image degradation beyond what you lost initially.\nUnfortunately THIS IS NOT THE CASE. In general, recompressing an altered\nimage loses more information, though usually not as much as was lost the\nfirst time around.\n\nThe next best thing would be that if you decompress an image and recompress\nit *without changing it* then there is no further loss, i.e., you get an\nidentical JPEG file. Even this is not true; at least, not with the current\nfree JPEG software. It's essentially a problem of accumulation of roundoff\nerror. If you repeatedly compress and decompress, the image will eventually\ndegrade to where you can see visible changes from the first-generation\noutput. (It usually takes many such cycles to get visible change.)\nOne of the things on our to-do list is to see if accumulation of error can\nbe avoided or limited, but I am not optimistic about it.\n\nIn any case, the most that could possibly be guaranteed would be that\ncompressing the unmodified full-color output of djpeg, at the original\nquality setting, would introduce no further loss. Even such simple changes\nas cropping off a border could cause further roundoff-error degradation.\n(If you're wondering why, it's because the pixel-block boundaries move.\nIf you cropped off only multiples of 16 pixels, you might be safe, but\nthat's a mighty limited capability!)\n\nThe bottom line is that JPEG is a useful format for archival storage and\ntransmission of images, but you don't want to use it as an intermediate\nformat for sequences of image manipulation steps. Use a lossless format\n(PPM, RLE, TIFF, etc) while working on the image, then JPEG it when you are\nready to file it away. Aside from avoiding degradation, you will save a lot\nof compression/decompression time this way :-).\n\n\n[14] What are some rules of thumb for converting GIF images to JPEG?\n\nAs stated earlier, you *will* lose some amount of image information if you\nconvert an existing GIF image to JPEG. If you can obtain the original\nfull-color data the GIF was made from, it's far better to make a JPEG from\nthat. But if you need to save space and have only the GIF to work from,\nhere are some suggestions for getting maximum space savings with minimum\nloss of quality.\n\nThe first rule when converting a GIF library is to look at each JPEG, to\nmake sure you are happy with it, before throwing away the corresponding GIF;\nthat will give you a chance to re-do the conversion with a higher quality\nsetting if necessary. Some GIFs may be better left as GIFs, as explained in\nsection 3; in particular, cartoon-type GIFs with sixteen or fewer colors\ndon't convert well. You may find that a JPEG file of reasonable quality\nwill be *larger* than the GIF. (So check the sizes too.)\n\nExperience to date suggests that large, high-visual-quality GIFs are the best\ncandidates for conversion to JPEG. They chew up the most storage so offer\nthe most potential savings, and they convert to JPEG with least degradation.\nDon't waste your time converting any GIF much under 100 Kbytes. Also, don't\nexpect JPEG files converted from GIFs to be as small as those created\ndirectly from full-color originals. To maintain image quality you may have\nto let the converted files be as much as twice as big as straight-through\nJPEG files would be (i.e., shoot for 1/2 or 1/3rd the size of the GIF file,\nnot 1/4th as suggested in earlier comparisons).\n\nMany people have developed an odd habit of putting a large constant-color\nborder around a GIF image. While useless, this was nearly free in terms of\nstorage cost in GIF files. It is NOT free in JPEG files, and the sharp\nborder boundary can create visible artifacts (\"ghost\" edges). Do yourself\na favor and crop off any border before JPEGing. (If you are on an X Windows\nsystem, XV's manual and automatic cropping functions are a very painless\nway to do this.)\n\ncjpeg's default Q setting of 75 is appropriate for full-color input, but\nfor GIF inputs, Q settings of 85 to 95 often seem to be necessary to avoid\nimage degradation. (If you apply smoothing as suggested below, the higher\nQ setting may not be necessary.)\n\nColor GIFs of photographs or complex artwork are usually \"dithered\" to fool\nyour eye into seeing more than the 256 colors that GIF can actually store.\nIf you enlarge the image, you will see that adjacent pixels are often of\nsignificantly different colors; at normal size the eye averages these pixels\ntogether to produce the illusion of an intermediate color value. The\ntrouble with dithering is that, to JPEG, it looks like high-spatial-frequency\ncolor noise; and JPEG can't compress noise very well. The resulting JPEG\nfile is both larger and of lower image quality than what you would have\ngotten from JPEGing the original full color image (if you had it).\nTo get around this, you want to \"smooth\" the GIF image before compression.\nSmoothing averages together nearby pixels, thus approximating the color that\nyou thought you saw anyway, and in the process getting rid of the rapid\ncolor changes that give JPEG trouble. Appropriate use of smoothing will\noften let you avoid using a high Q factor, thus further reducing the size of\nthe compressed file, while still obtaining a better-looking output image\nthan you'd get without smoothing.\n\nWith the V4 free JPEG software (or products based on it), a simple smoothing\ncapability is built in. Try \"-smooth 10\" or so when converting GIFs.\nValues of 10 to 25 seem to work well for high-quality GIFs. Heavy-handed\ndithering may require larger smoothing factors. (If you can see regular\nfine-scale patterns on the GIF image even without enlargement, then strong\nsmoothing is definitely called for.) Too large a smoothing factor will blur\nthe output image, which you don't want. If you are an image processing\nwizard, you can also do smoothing with a separate filtering program, such as\npnmconvol from the PBMPLUS package. However, cjpeg's built-in smoother is\na LOT faster than pnmconvol...\n\nThe upshot of all this is that \"cjpeg -quality 85 -smooth 10\" is probably a\ngood starting point for converting GIFs. But if you really care about the\nimage, you'll want to check the results and maybe try a few other settings.\n\n\n---------------------\n\nFor more information about JPEG in general or the free JPEG software in\nparticular, contact the Independent JPEG Group at jpeg-info@uunet.uu.net.\n", "\nYou are nto alone. I get the same problems with my Panasonic kpx 1124i (24 \npin). Oterhwise, it's a great printer. I just can't find a driver for it, \nonly for the non-\"i\" version. Anyone seen it?\n\nRob", "\nI don't want to get into a semantic argument, but contrary to some other\npostings \"near UV light\" /is/ \"actual UV light.\" The \"near\" means that\nit is close to the visible spectrum (i.e. of relatively long wavelength),\nnot that it is \"nearly UV.\" (I'm sure you can figure out now just what\n\"far UV\" is.)\n\nRegular incandenscent flashlight bulbs emit tiny amounts of UV in the\nnear end of the spectrum, such that a filter can be used to remove the\nvisible light and thus create a weak UV source. Stronger sources are\ngoing to require gas (probably mercury vapor) discharge tubes (such as\nfluorescent tubes with UV phosphor). Be careful, though; strong UV\nsources can cause physiological damage, especially to the eyes. The\nshorter wavelengths are the most dangerous.\n\nIt wouldn't project a beam like a flashlight, but replacing the tubes\nin a portable fluorescent lantern with UV tubes would be a relatively\ncheap way to create a portable source. It would be bright enough to\nbe useful, but not dangerously so.", "I created a pixmap or drawable window, then used XDrawLine() function \ndrawed a line as below fingure:\n\n\t\twidth = 300\n\t================================\n\t|\t\t\t\t|\n\t|\t\t\t\t|\n\t|\t\t\tp1\t|\n\t|\t\t\t\\\t|\n\t|\t\t\t \\\t| height = 300\n\t|\t\t\t \\\t|\n\t|\t\t\t \\\t|\n\t|\t\t\t \\\t|\n\t|\t\t\t \\\t|\n\t|\t\t\t \\\t|\n\t|\t\t\t \\|p3\n\t|\t\t\t\t| \n\t|===============================| \\\n\t\t\t\t\t \\\n\t\t\t\t\t p2\n\n\tI created the pixmap or drawable window only with size 300x300.\nBut I draw line from p1(x1=270,y1=100) to p2(x2=500,y2=800).\nMy question is, dose the XDrawLine function can finger out that correct\np3(x3 and y3) for me? If you calculate x3 and y3. \n\nx3 = 300;\n\n@ = art tan (( 800 - 100)/(500 - 270)) = 71.81 degrees;\n\ny3 = 100 + x3/tan(@) = 100 + 300/tan(71.81) = 198.58 ~= (integer) 199.\n\nHow do I prove XDrawLine() give me the right x3, y3 or not?\nPlease don't ask me why I don't created a 900x900 pixmap. No, I don't\nwan to. \n\nThanks in advance!", "\nMy very favorite ad for such a device is on the back of the latest\nDamark catalog. Quoting from memory:\n\n[Big flashy type]\n\"Dual deck VCR copies any tape -- Even those that are copy protected!*\"\n\n(And underneath the ad in very small print: *This device is not intended\nfor making illegal copies of copyrighted material.)\n\n:-)\n\n-- ", "\nOk. I have a record that shows a IIsi with and without a 64KB cache.\nIt's small enough that I will attach it.\n\nI have also measured some real programs with and without the 64 KB\ncache. The speedup varies a lot from app to app, ranging from 0% to\n40%. I think an average of 20%-25% is about right. The subjective\ndifference is not great, but is sometimes noticable. A simple cache\ncard certainly does not transform a IIsi into something enormously\nbetter. I do not have an FPU.\n\nThe conventional wisdom says that cache cards from all of the makers\noffer about the same speedup and that there is not much difference\nbetween 32K and 64K caches. I bought mine from Third Wave for well\nunder $150. I have had absolutely no problems at all with it.\n\nIf you get *complete* speedometer runs for a 32K cache, I'd like to\nsee them. Let's check the conventional wisdom! The so called\n\"Performance Rating\" numbers by themselves are of no interest. \n\nCheers.\n\n(This file must be converted with BinHex 4.0)\n:#@0KBfKP,Q0`G!\"338083e\"$9!!!!!!'A!!!!!$qK3%\"a+!!!!BGJ&CfGiGfH(H\n)GhQ!QSQBUC!!@SQUU(QSCfPhGhL(H+HCL&KjQTU)LDH)HBL*UCUCJ!U@GQ9hGiK\nhCAKR9SPiJ)QRQ)QUJ+N(J!UCLD#U#S!!S!QUUTQC#U#DL3J)#3LT#UU)QUUBUT!\n!S!L3!!UU#!QJS+UT!!QJS*UD#TUUQCQ3!*!!UCFJ!!%c4ACSL'D)L)D!#!!)#!!\n!!!!!!!!)!!!!!!!!J!B8*%9@9L0A\"i!!G`!!G`B!!(J)\"i###B!P[US),B\")21Z\n-1I\"k-cQFM-VXMHhA!irdjPcVr,lUCVSZ2SI8j@,-l,jPI`F#lZq0A\"AL8XRHjf,\n6[LJ09\"aZ2TV6l!$9lN@eAP@Rei8(VIpIQkfDK$-ZV[b+9[T5lkC0XZ6LGhf(Ik&\na$Lkh*Q6-qhh2MIlc*Q2Iq$p([GeSp(ejN!\"bHMdHll$&Qh'lR`E26C2(QBqSrMM\npa-k()jPGXqcpR2rYR9eYd0,*Mh0,h1rj1*hA%pcLHRSG6PF2eIYmc4rIS60EFp+\nCGE@Vr$[TRAFA(QkA`pG8JkS[@fe1mcBikFQC(,(9K[U&h\"\"0rr\"BDDT(i%XP3Z$\nV04L8D82FeU01V4K-9U#JaD@1*fZa`EZr3-eGTYkNXH49SjF2Ei[G*5el3[VZ'j[\nVf($bTBHjlEX3Pe0KJ8,ZKH!9Cc3+fJ%kHGZC*BHhNV9+DC6Xd$[S58DFD\"pJ%ei\nq#CXHkEL`@d%&PYYY\"1f0rG`jm0rJTCYMi4B1KbB'pUBQ)PU9'q\"*m1miHG#YR`b\neUNG1'mSAP#mR`i-1*K`l[DiNq'MQjZA(,4bq\"$*Mimq(KC9@@(-Mc'\"f88e9U&0\nF'Y4U5eXb(\"+6T8D@6(R3ae+10Padk\"CAK!*Ea6SThLiA9HF!H&&Da@[,[2bA2!p\n2VIr&TI)!6V`%S!*eJ#GS!Q!!QqD#2P!*M49m9IdHhm2frUq2Ek))G3e\"Vi)+rQJ\nC[`%m#+E&0jf\"YI2ql`VI&0qHH!R[339`'9hY46)TR+ZkXI!pQRQKCU3%ed9R&Cr\n!QCiUk+ZmEf)IYI&bqMEffkT5bB`JhYl2K[0PXVe0B@@2*@Uam121D`A`h+cC)Xl\nIEjf8S+#9`a6[P8p0ZC&6H0ajcY1BR\"JDM3`F%lJ1&5bI+SC2Jh([qeTfVK961rR\nZVIq[+Rb-TH3'B3f0r$h''cP%\"UY1'jU53jY@5P(RCdPAXAfrl\"Xrhf#Y\"dmV1i$\n9%Dm@T+f4NMlP5jd-XN0(K5C91'R@)4Qb9C5Ke1h%V-kiaRA-NTa`b9(YYL5TM5*\nF2#bUFFLGJ%,D8QA*9R`eUQ29Sj!!p0b'\"c5LEFR4@%9KpDGj1,bijhNaDH,6mrm\n(3qpJITeraM0+0RHJ*aJ%f`#HJ!R4JJXDK22e!Cab5DK)jkRq0r[IcrC`[c!Krd(\n$m1VrbJCX!NR)3FrcHYPk(r1CHJjiJ#Hk%'J84pq+#+$a2&r&bZ,Ff1V,-KG6qG9\nMbmUPG9XkUeX$2Gl!Gl!Gl!GE!k5hrX(F4IX4IRNYkb\"M%rSbN4`8m8qPq2rAd[j\nFhRC#4(PeI2RFhY0+j-GH'!P*S)h!#HN!R6JJXb5f'b!clJkfb121qGm2MclEe,S\nmHpf12b4arQ$Q%%PLK\"q(8@I8[qRmmS5[l`\"2fP!\"4CpjY0,DDAp2AlE#eIPBD0c\nrL1,PeXj39[%9k`HF4Z,ZKGN4h9A+b-T23l)RDf'a13X\"'-#VbKJ[!9ME*!Tlp2-\nQckRpM@J2e5BN*f&jHN*[Vp-#f+F(J)PQXJNlYRLpQ3C,%`Cm0l3E[MP\"cXZ6`)B\nmpVS0)P3Y@XTB5F5qaSr\"XrmrZf1iLXSV,pPVjICFMRrekXdDI`0FHmT[Q!4VL`T\naalM336chGUr@\"Me6YarIDI&Y2LpE9HPaI#fhNFmq$qLchVC(dUajJ%eb%(6NdIH\np#jqEd#X1cGDTVmDY965+@Pi,Mr1JeR&pq`q@\"AacVkC[0lZi3-Z-5PZk8%f$Vrd\nHfR&1mci,3&Nqh9r\"e%\"j5Ve$0rN`AbfB\"Qqlk$C`3@LKQRh0(-MKhNYA+UC&Qhq\n5kajHR1eFqR,2H5b8Z!SLfG3!!2TPmiF!!3!+58PcD5eMB@0SC3%!!!!)6@0S9(0\n3C$1R$)JJT`b+33%!ADmicJ!#!!!4a3!!!!!!!!B9!!!!!,AP!!!:\n-- ", "\nBut I don't want to have to run blasted Windows every time I want to delete\na tree - it is absolutely ludicrous to load a hog like that just to delete\nsome files! It would be like requiring a crane to change the tyre on a car.\n\n\nOnly because its crap, which is noones fault but their own.\n\n\nBy deliberately crippling the product? Surely no...\n\nOh, hold on, I guess you're right. That certainly stinks of MicroSoft\nmarketing techniques.\n\nBut the point still remains that a command to delete trees is not new\ntechnology, and is the kind of thing one would have expected to see long\nbefore Windows was even dreamt of.\n\n\nWell Amen to that, but I wish it were a damn sight deader. For a dead\nproduct, its used an awful lot. And I suspect its going to carry on\ntwitching for a long while yet, which isn't doing anyone any good.\n\n(And MicroSoft don't appear to have given up marketing DOS, so it is a very\nunusual form of death indeed).\n", "\n Your source is wrong. The double speed CD300 is still slow compared to a\ntypical hard disk. The LC can easily handle the SCSI transfer rate of the\nCD300. None of the current Macs, even the Quadras, support SCSI-2 unless\nyou get a SCSI-2 Nubus Card.\n\n You don't have to have double speed to use PhotoCD. It's just faster\nreading images off of a disk. I think that the CD150 can handle PhotoCD,\nbut only single session. The CD300 can do multisession PhotoCD.", "\nG'day Brian,\n\nI'll be blunt about this. The ONLY reasonable explanation of Roberts\nalgorithm is in\n\nProcedural Elements for Computer Graphics\nRogers\nMcGraw-Hill Book Co. 1985\n\nGo to the library and look at this.\n\nThere is also a somewhat muddled explanation in the first edition\nof Newman and Sproull.\n\nThe algorithm described in PECG runs in near linear time.\n\nLuck,", "A slightly used (less than two months old) SupraFaxModem is for sale.\nIt comes with latest ROM 1.2H, communication software, fax software, \noriginal manuals, and the original registration card.\n\nHere are some specs:\n\n Model # : SUPFAXV32BIS\n Description : SupraFaxModem V.32bis\n Type : Internal\n Data Speed : 14,400/12,000/9600/7200/4800/2400/1200/300 bps data\n\t\t(upto 57000bps with V.42 data compression)\n Protocols : Bell 103/212A,CCIT V.21/V.22/V.22bis/V.32/V.32bis/V.42/\n\t : V.42bis, MNP 2-5, & MNP 10\n Fax : 14,400/12,000/9600/7200/4800/2400 bps send/receive fax\n\t : Class 1 & 2 commnads\n\t : Group III compatible\n Transmission: V.17,V.29,V.27ter\n other :\n\t\tnon-volatile memory; autoanswer/autodial (tone or pulse); \n\t\textended AT commands and result codes; includes diagnostics, \n\t\tphone jacks, subscriptions to free online services.\n\t\t5 year warranty.\n\n Asking : $180 (neg.) + S/H \n\nIf interested, please e-mail.", "I just got a copy of Tobias' Managing Your Money v9.0. I have Quicken 6,\nand it's wonderful for some things, but MYM seems to have some features\nthat Q6 doesn't. For example, Q6 doesn't seem to be able to handle\nmonthly automatic deductions from a checking account (you know, a\nmonthly payment that gets electronically deducted every month from\nmy checking account). Or is there something that I'm not doing right,\nand Q6 can actually do that? Anyway, MYM seems to be able to handle\nmonthly deductions. In fact, it can apparently do better than that.\nThat is, you can specify monthly, bimonthly, quarterly, even yearly.\nAnyway, is anyone aware of a comparitive study of the two programs?\nOr can someone just give me their own personal impressions? Maybe\nsomeone who has used both. Or maybe someone who is familiar with\neach could give me a capsule review? Anything would be greatly\nappreciated. If I keep MYM, I have to pay for it, and I don't know\nwhether it's worth doing. If MYM is better than Q6, of course I\nwill keep it. But if Q6 can do everything MYM can do (maybe even\nbetter), I won't. Thanks all!", "Hi,\n\nI am programming in XView, SunOS 4.1.2 & OpenWindows 3.0. I would like\nto rotate some text and display it. I did read the FAQ in comp.windows.x\nbut am not sure how do I translate it to XView. I would appreciate if\nsomeone can give me tips on how to do it. Thanx.\n\n\t- Mahendra.\n\nPS : As I am not a frequent news group reader, I would appreciate if\n answers/replies would be mailed to me. I will post a follow-up.\n\n-- ", "Hello!\n\n\nThis isn't of much help! Especially when doing Phigs (PEX) via the libphigs as\nsupplied by MIT, I have much trouble together with PEX-terminals that don't\nhave enough memory!\n\nPerforming the following:\n\n visual.visualid = CopyFromParent;\n\n bg_pix = WhitePixel( grafik_display, DefaultScreen( grafik_display ) );\n \n xswa.backing_store = NotUseful;\n xswa.event_mask = ExposureMask | StructureNotifyMask;\n xswa.background_pixel = bg_pix;\n\n graphic_window =\n XCreateWindow( graphic_display,\n RootWindow( graphic_display,\n DefaultScreen( graphic_display ) ),\n 0,\n 0,\n DisplayWidth(graphic_display, \n DefaultScreen( graphic_display ) ),\n DisplayHeight(graphic_display, \n DefaultScreen( graphic_display ) ),\n (unsigned int)0,\n 8,\n InputOutput,\n &visual,\n CWEventMask | CWBackingStore | CWBackPixel,\n &xswa );\n XMapWindow( graphic_display, graphic_window );\n \n /** sync and wait for exposure event **/\n XSync( graphic_display, False );\n XWindowEvent( graphic_display, graphic_window, ExposureMask, &exposureEvent );\n\n conn.display = graphic_display;\n conn.drawable_id = graphic_window;\n\n xinfo.display = graphic_display;\n xinfo.flags.no_monitor = 0; /* False -> Monitor is running! */\n xinfo.flags.force_client_SS = 0; /* False! */\n\n popen_xphigs( NULL, 0, PXPHIGS_INFO_FLAGS_NO_MON |\n PXPHIGS_INFO_FLAGS_CLIENT_SS |\n PXPHIGS_INFO_DISPLAY, &xinfo );\n\n popen_ws( 1, (Pconnid)(&conn), phigs_ws_type_x_drawable );\n\nI get core dumps in the popen_ws call! (No BadAlloc, etc.! Simply a core\ndump!) So I need some way of getting info about the maximal available memory\nto the Xserver!\n\nBut thanks!\n\nSincerly,\n Matthias", "When I use telix (or kermit) in WIN 3.1, or use telix after exiting windows\nto dos, telix can not find the serial port. If you have some ideas on how\nto solve this problem or where I can find further information, send me email\nor send it to the news group. Thanks.\n\nDale Erickson \ndericks@plains.nodak.edu", "I have a fresh stock of S-VHS broadcast master tapes, in album covers, forsale.\nAll unopened and still in plastic. I will sell the lot for $50 (they are worth\naround $75 at Discount Video Warehouse). (Fuji Broadcast master )", "On 4/20/93, Tim Keanini was heard to say regarding \"Mac SCSI spec?:\" \n\n TK> From: blast@nntp.crl.com (Tim\n TK> Keanini)\n TK> \n TK> I have a MacIIFX and I know that it is wired about its SCSI chain.\n TK> \n TK> I just bought a drive and I need to find out a few hardcore SCSI\n TK> question:\n TK> \n TK> Does the IIFX SCSI chain want to see active or passive termination?\n TK> \n TK> Does the IIFX SCSI spec want me to enable the initiation of the SDTR\n TK> message?\n TK> \n TK> WHat does the IIFX SCSI spec want as far as parity checking?\n TK> \n TK> These are some very good questions for the FAQ. If someone does not\n TK> have time to answer these questions but does know where I can look\n TK> them up please let me know and I will repost the answers for everyone\n TK> to see.\n TK> \n\n Read TechNote #273...it deals with more than any sane person wants to\nknow about the IIfx's SCSI....", "\n\nIn this case would the switch control voltages be -7V to turn the switch\noff and >0V to turn the switch on?", "I have a SPARC-2 with 2 CGSIX cards in it. I'd like\nto have the R5 server recognize the second card.\n\n\nI mknod created a /dev/cgsix1 device, but when I brought up the\nserver, the second device was ignored. \n\nHow do I setup the second card?\n\n\nNote: If I borrow a cgthree card, and put a cgthree and\na cgsix card in the same SPARC-2 box, the R5 server finds\nthe second card. I then set the DISPLAY to the\nsecond card, and start a second window manager. \n\nWorse case is I trade cards with someone, but maybe someone\nout there has seen this problem already...\n\n\nemail is preferred... post if you must...\n\nThanks in advance....\n\n\nJim", "From article <1qq7i1INNdqc@dns1.NMSU.Edu>, by bgrubb@dante.nmsu.edu (GRUBB):\n\n[Tons of stuff deleted on SCSI vs. IDE question...]\n\nWow, you guys are really going wild on this IDE vs. SCSI thing, and I think\nit's great!\n\nLike lots of people, I'd really like to increase my data transfer rate from\nthe hard drive. Right now I have a 15ms 210Mb IDE drive (Seagate 1239A), and\nwhat I would say is a standard (not special, no cache I believe) IDE controller\ncard on my ISA 486-50.\n\nI'm currently thinking about adding another HD, in the 300Mb to 500Mb range.\nAnd I'm thinking hard (you should hear those gears a-grinding in my head)\nabout buying a SCSI drive (SCSI for the future benefit). I believe I'm getting\nsomething like 890Kb/sec transfer right now (according to NU). How would this\nnumber compare if I bought the state-of-the-art SCSI card for my ISA PC, and\nthe state-of-the-art SCSI hard drive (the wailing-est system I could hope for)?\nObviously money factors into this choice as well as any other, but what would\nYOU want to use on your ISA system? And how much would it cost?\n\nAlong those lines, what kind of transfer rate could I see with my IDE HD's if I\nwere to buy the top-of-the-line IDE caching controller for my 200Mb, 15ms HD?\nAnd how much would it cost?\n\nI actually have a PAS-16, and could (what a waste I guess it would be...) hook\nup a SCSI HD through it's SCSI port which yields an optimum of 690Kb/sec.\nActually, I have a borrowed 12ms Fujitsu HD hooked up through it now (and\nown the Trantor HD drivers for the PAS-16 SCSI port). Is this SCSI port a\nSCSI-2 port? How could I tell? Is the Fujitsu 2623A a SCSI-2? Are all SCSI\nHD's SCSI-2?\n\nThanks for any comments on these rephrased questions.", "I'm looking for a complete hw/sw solution:\nI need an ISA/VLB scsi controller (e.g Ultrastor 34F)\nplus a tape drive (500Mb or less like Archive) plus a Windows\nprogram that will work on these.\n\nMy intended system will have 32Mb RAM so\nplain ISA controllers will no longer do.\nBut I also hear that the SCSI world\nis not very organized.\n\nSo does anybody have a tape backup setup\nlike what I'm looking for ? Please\ndescribe it.\n\nThanks. e-mail please.\n", "From: payne@crl.dec.com (Andrew Payne)\nMessage-ID: <1993Apr20.004418.11548@crl.dec.com>\nOrganization: DEC Cambridge Research Lab\nDate: Tue, 20 Apr 1993 00:44:18 GMT\n\n\nDoes anyone know if a source for the TCM3105 modem chips (as used in the\nBaycom and my PMP modems)? Ideally, something that is geared toward \nhobbyists: small quantity, mail order, etc.\n\nFor years, we've been buying them from a distributor (Marshall) by the\nhundreds for PMP kits. But orders have dropped to the point where we can\nno longer afford to offer this service. And all of the distributors I've\nchecked have some crazy minimum order ($100, or so).\n\nI'd like to find a source for those still interested in building PMP kits.\nAny suggestions?\n\n-- \nAndrew C. Payne\nDEC Cambridge Research Lab\n---\n . R110B:Wnet HAL_9000\n ", "\nWhat you have is one of the LD players from a video game (Dragon's Lair,\nSpace Ace, etc). Call Pioneer Technicial Support 213-498-0300 (at least\nthat's the number I called them at) and ask for the LD-V1000 Interface\nGuide. It shows how the parallel interface should be wired and the codes\nfor the commands (play, pause, reject, etc). The guide is mainly for hooking\nthe player to a computer, but with a little work, you could build a wired\ncontroller.\n", " >When some types of client windows are displayed, parts of the windows\n >are in the wrong color; if the window is moved slightly, forcing the server\n >to repaint it, it is repainted in the correct colors. It doesn't happen\n\nI have the exact same problem when running Hewlett Packard's Microwave Design\nSystem (MDS) from an HP 380 unix box and running MacX 1.2, Sys 7.0.1*.\nNormally, MDS draws a window with a deep blue backround, but occasionally\nit becomes a light blue and all the text, etc, inside the window become\n\"washed out\" (nearly invisible). I thought that it was just something\nbrain dead that I was doing or a subtle conflict with another app or INIT.\n\nBy slightly moving the window, and forcing a re-draw, the colors get corrected.", "Hello X'ers\n\nI have a problem: I am not able to create a window with 24 bit planes. The\nfollowing code illustrates the problem:\n\n#include \n#include \n#include \n\nmain()\n{\n Display *display;\n Window win;\n XVisualInfo vinfo;\n Colormap colormap;\n XSetWindowAttributes attributes;\n XEvent event;\n Status status;\n\n display=XOpenDisplay(NULL);\n status=XMatchVisualInfo(display,DefaultScreen(display),24,TrueColor,\n &vinfo);\n if (!status){\n fprintf(stderr,\"Visual not found\\n\");\n exit(1);\n }\n colormap=XCreateColormap(display,DefaultRootWindow(display),\n vinfo.visual,AllocNone);\n\n attributes.colormap=colormap;\n\n win=XCreateWindow(display,DefaultRootWindow(display),0,0,100,100,\n 0,24,InputOutput,vinfo.visual,CWColormap,&attributes);\n XMapWindow(display,win);\n for (;;){\n XNextEvent(display,&event);\n }\n}\n\nI tried this with an SGI with 24 plane TrueColor server, and with an HP\n9000-700 24 plane DirectColor server (with the obviously neccessary change),\nboth running X11R4. On the client side, I have tried with X11R4 Xlib on\nHP 9000-700 and DECstation, and with X11R3 Xlib on DECstation. All the\ncombinations gave BadMatch error on the CreateWindow request.\n\nAs far as I can tell from the manual, the only attribute which may give\na BadMatch, is the colormap, if it belongs to a wrong visual. But the\nvisual was correctly matched, as I did not get the error message. What\nam I doing wrong? For information I can tell that xwud aborts with the\nsame error.\n\n Karsten\n-- ", "Base Unit\n 1 Controller\n All Cables and hookups\n Games:\n Kieth Courage\n Legenary Axe\n Fantasy Zone\n Victory Run\n Wrestling Challenge\n Blazing Lasers\n Military Madness\n Bloody Wolf", "I have one of the original Powerbook 170's (with 4Mb of Ram) and find\nthat 4Mb is a drag when trying to do my work. So, what is the best way\nto get the maximum RAM for this unit, and what's it going to cost me?\nI'm hoping I can get the latest and best info from real users by posting \nto this group.", "\n\nWell, you might try the A.R.R.L.'s license study guides. For example, my\nAdvanced Class study guide has lots and lots of good RF and electronics\ntheory in it. I would imagine the other books are good too.\n\nTony\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\n-- Anthony S. Pelliccio, kd1nr/ae // Yes, you read it right, the //\n-- system @ garlic.sbs.com // man who went from No-Code //\n-----------------------------------// (Thhhppptt!) to Extra in //\n-- Flame Retardent Sysadmin // exactly one year! //\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n-- This is a calm .sig! --", "I just got a Duo230 and a DuoDock, and am quite happy with it all -\nexcept I need to use the dock with \n\ta) two page grey scale monitor (Apple)\n b) two page color monitor (Apple)\n\nWhat is net wisdom on which vendor/video card would be preferable?\n\nThanks in advance.\n\n ---jon---\n\n\n", "First off: Thanks to all who have filled me in on the existence of the\n68070. I assumed rashly that the particular number would be reserved for\nfurther enhancements to the Motorola line, rather than meted out to\nanother company. Ah, well, I guess that's what I get when I assume the\ncomputer industry will operate in a logical manner! ;-)\n\na\nspot\n\nVersion 1.5 of Quicktime is, as has been stated, the current version of\nthe software. The older version is 1.0, and 1.6 is on the horizon in the\nnot too distant future.\n\nback quite\n25x by\nthat it\nhe\n\nQuicktime does a much better job of playing back movies at size than it\ndoes playing back resized movies. Apparently the process of expanding\neach frame's image and dithering the resultant bitmap to the appropriate\nbit depth is pretty processor-intensive. There are optimizers that work\npretty well for showing movies at double size, but if you drop to 1.9x\nsize or increase to 2.1x size, performance suffers dramatically.\n\n(don't know\nQuicktime\n\nHe lied. :-) Quicktime is very CPU dependent. He was probably confused by\nthe fact that QT is locked to an internal timecode, and will play in the\nsame amount of time on any machine. However, an LC will drop frames in\norder to keep the sound and video synced up.\n\nThe Centris and Quadras have similar CPUs and will thus boast similar\nperformance, though the Quadras will be a bit faster due to marginally\nfaster clock speeds and somewhat different architecture.\n\nhaving\nwas\n\nI expect that the version of the Quicktime software you saw was 1.0 -- I\nwas using was 1.5. One of the new codecs in v1.5 allows video at nearly\ntwice the size and the same frame rate as what version 1.0 could handle.\nThe Centris 650 I saw was a plain-vanilla, with the exception of the nice\nspeakers that were playing the sound, and the software was Movie Player,\nthe QT player Apple includes with the software.\n", "Bristol Technology announces the availability of \nits HyperHelp(tm) and Xprinter(tm) demo for downloading.\n\nThis demo showcases the two products in the form of a \ndiagram editor called DE.\n\nDownload the demo and see some of these exciting features for yourself:\n\n\t o Complete on-line context sensitive help system.\n\n\t o Printing support for PCL5 and PostScript.\n\n\t o Rotated Text support!\n\n\t o Source code for the demo is provided.\n\nThe demo is available via anonymous ftp from ftp.uu.net (137.39.1.9).\n\nThere are two versions of the demo located in the vendor/Bristol directory:\nSun - sun4.demo.tar.Z (SunOS 4.x)\nHP - hp700.tar.Z (HP-UX 8 & 9)\n\nIf you have any questions about the demo, send an\ne-mail to: support@bristol.com.\n\nIf you want another version of the demo (rs6000,etc...) \nplease send an e-mail to: info@bristol.com.\n\nRemember to use binary mode!\n\n\nWhat are HyperHelp and Xprinter? Read on......\n---------------------------------------------------------\nBristol Technology is proud to announce version 3.0 of\nits popular HyperHelp product and version 2.0 of Xprinter.\n\n\t\t\t HyperHelp 3.0\n\t\t\t -------------\nHyperHelp is the de-facto standard for on-line context\nsensitive help in the Unix marketplace. Through a one\nline function call, application developers can access the\nfull features of HyperHelp and cut down drastically on\ntheir development time. HyperHelp can use the same RTF,\nproject, and bitmap files as the MS Windows Help facility.\nThis allows a documentation department to maintain a single\nset of help documents portable between MS Windows, Motif and\nOpen Look. HyperHelp can also be authored in FrameMaker. \nAnd with HyperHelp 3.0 Bristol introduces its SGML compiler!\n\nNew features in HyperHelp 3.0 include secondary windows,a character\nbased viewer, segmented bitmaps, SGML support, and an improved History\nwindow.\n\n\t\t\t Xprinter 2.0\n\t\t\t ------------\nXprinter 2.0 allows developers to add sophisticated\nprinter support to their existing/new X based applications\nvery easily. Xprinter uses the Xlib API for both the\ndisplay and printer. This lets you use the exact same code\nfor drawing and printing. Take a look at the source code for\nour demo and see Xprinter in action.\n\nIf you are interested in adding PostScript and PCL5 support\nto your application, Xprinter is the tool for you! Earlier\nthis year Bristola dn USL signed an agreement that\nresulted in Xprinter becoming the standard printing technology\nfor UNIX SVR4.2.\n\n\nFeel free to run the demo and let us know what you think about\nHyperHelp and Xprinter. \n\nIf you have any questions or comments, send them to us at:\ninfo@bristol.com or call us at (203) 438-6969.\n\n\t\t\t\tHappy demoing,\n\n", "My CB750 does it too. The \"Switch Continuity\" section of the wiring diagram\nlooks something like this:\n\n\tHL L H\n x--x Low\n x--x--x (N)\n x-----x High\n\nDean\n", "I just ordered my 4DX2-66V system from Gateway. Thanks for all the net\ndiscussions which helped me decide among all the vendors and options.\n\nRight now, the 4DX2-66V system includes 16MB of RAM. The 8MB upgrade\nused to cost an additional $340.\n", "Howdy all,\n\n\tI was wondering if people could e-mail me their opinions on\nthe various graphics viewers available for MS-Windows 3.x... I'm\nworking on a project to set up our scanner and write documentation on\nhow to use it and it would be nice to have a snazzy image viewer \nto look at (and maybe even edit?) the image you just scanned.\n\nThe file formats I'm looking for:\n\nGIF\nJPEG\nTIFF\nPCX\nwhatever other 'major' file formats there are.\n\nThanks a lot for your help\n\nGrant\n", "I sent a 2400 baud modem to a cousin in Greece from the U.S. and it is\nworking fine for him. It also worked for me in U.S.\n\n-Jim.\n", "I would like to experiment with the INTEL 8051 family. Does anyone out \nthere know of any good FTP sites that might have compiliers, assemblers, \netc.?\n", "\n\n\n\nHmm, depends on how you define 'clean'. Jordan implemented the system\ndependent stuff in a way that you have basic implementations for,\ncall it, operating system types, then you go ahead and write a include\nfile for your specific machine or operating system using the basic\nimplementations. Since both Jordan and I haven't encountered a \nOS flavor yet, that is fully POSIX, we haven't gotten around to\nreally implement (and test) a top-level include file specifically\nfor just posix. The posix routines are used in the sun specific file\ntty_sun.i for example, but here we also use some bsd stuff. All in all\nit still is probably better to implement a include file for each and\nevery operating system than '#ifdef'ing in existing ones. The type\nof mess that can result from that can clearly be seen in the xterm\nsources. Even if quite a bit of code gets copied almost unchanged a \ncouple of times, this only uses up some disk space, since only the \n\"drivers\" actually included from the toplevel include file will be \ncompiled into emu.\n\nIt shouldn't be hard to come up with a tty_linux.i file that fully\nrelies on the posix stuff, but unfortunately I don't have a linux\nsystem available to me, so I can't do the port myself. I would suggest\nyou read the README in term/sysdep and if you have any problems or\nquestions, contact me and we could try to sort this out. Unfortunately\nwe have to rely on help from the net on this part of emu, since we \njust don't have access to that many different systems.\n\nMichael\n\n", "\n\nYou *can* upgrade MSC 7.0 and QCWIN to the Visual C++ products as follows:\n\n STANDARD EDITION:\n List Price $199\n Upgrade from QCWin $ 79\n Competitive Upgrade $ 99\n\n PROFESSIONAL EDITION:\n List Price $499\n Upgrade from MSC 7.0 $139\n Competitive Upgrade* $199 \n\n * Includes upgrades from other MS language products like QCWin\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nMichael Goo |\nHewlett-Packard | \"I never try to cover my ass...\nInformation Networks Division | but I certainly support your right to do so!\"\n19420 Homestead Road MS 43LT |\nCupertino, CA 95014-9974 |\ngoo@hpinddh.cup.hp.com |", "Hey,\n I have some Star Trek Christmas Ornaments for sale. They are the the\nHallmark Shuttle Craft Galileo. They went for $24.00 during christmas. I\nam willing to sell it for that price + shipping. If you are interested\nand have some questions, please reply... \n", "Just saw an article in New Scientist; AT&T videophones won't talk to (?)BTI \nvideophones. The AT&T ones use a 19.2kb modem, BTI uses 14.4kb. AT&T models \nhave to communicate using all AT&T exchanges, whereas the BTI can route \nvia most current exchanges. Suggestions include building standards converters \ninto telephone exchanges - the mind boggles :)= . The BTI design is a bit \nmore conservative and is better able to cope with current data compression \nhardware on long-distance lines.\n\n(not having the magazine to hand, I may have mis-remembered BTI. I think it\nis a British one made by GEC-Marconi, and currently selling to other\ncountries). \n\nYet Another Standards Screw-up.\n", "Has anyone ever heard of the X Professional Organization? Is anyone a member?\nIs the membership worth the $100 or so that they charge?", "Surely some one of you is familiar with what a mail-order company goes\nthrough. This company has only a few products, but thousands of clients.\nI need a Sales, Billing, and Receivables program to handle the thing,\nbut I need to be able to customize it myself, own the source, etc. Anyone\nwilling to sell me the basic stuff (in ANY development language) I'll\nbe willing to pay about $1,000 to. \n\nIt has to be ready now. I need this sort of solution immediately. With more\ntime I'll just develop one myself. If you can have me a prototype in\ntwo weeks, you can make some quick cash.", "peter.m@insane.apana.org.au (Peter Tryndoch) writes...\n\n\tYes there is. Not common for CB. The pattern is different (sort of\n\ta cloverleaf, with four main lobes.\n\n\tUse of anything under 1/4 wave for transmitting is very uncommon. (The\n\tusual \"rubber duck\" uses a coil to fool itself into looking like a\n\tquarter wave.\n\tI reccomend the ARRL Antenna Handbook, or a good basic book.", "Last two copies of silverlining 5.42 from La Cie for sale. This\nis disk management software. Lets you evalulate/test hard drive,\ninstall and test drivers, partition disks (supports AUX, ProDos, etc).\nNice piece of software to have around the house. If you are interested\nplease email your offers. First good offer also gets MacTree disk\norganization software free.", "OK...here is my question. I want to hook up my PowerBook 160 to\na SVGA monitor but I do not want to buy the PowerBook/DOS Companion. Can\nanyone tell me the EXACT cable I need to connect them? If there is such\na cable, can I purchase it from MacWharehouse or some computer store?\nIf I must buy the cable from James Engineering, how much do they run and\nhow can I get a hold them??? I guess that was more than 'a' question. :)\nThanks in advance for any replys.\n\n John Schrieber E-mail: schriejh@cnsvax.uwec.edu", "\n We have a problem with 'makedepend': it doesn't know how to correctly process\n #if clause in C preprocessor statements. It evaluates everything to\n true no matter what the conditionals are.\n\n [...]\n\n Has anybody come up with some solution/fix to 'makdepend' other than\n WriteYourOwnParser... and willing to share it with us?\n\nrewrite 'makedepend' to use 'cc -M' or 'gcc -M' or 'gcc -MM' (which is\nthe one I prefer, since system headers don't change that often) for\ngenerating the actual dependencies. you'll still need to write the\nparts that edit the actual Makefile. I think there's a program in the\nBerkeley distributions called mkdep that will do essentially this.", "It depends on what you'd like your joystick for. I've seen Gravis\njoysticks at Radio Shack. They seemed flimsy and didn't fit well in my\nhand. I have heard on c.s.i.p.games that they don't last well (less than\na year) on flightsims. One redeeming feature does seem to be the ability\nto adjust the tension of the stick.\n\nI recently purchased a CH Flightstick. There aren't any suction cups and\nno tension adjusters but otherwise it seems to be an excellent joystick. \nI'm currently using it for the Wing Commander series and Red Baron. Works\nquite well. The large base does not require a steadying hand and so\nleaves it free. The buttons provide good tactile response (you can hear\nand feel them well). There are other models made by CH that can go up or\ndown in features.\n\nFor price comparison Gravis analogue joysticks sell for ~$35.00 here\ncompared to the $45.00 I paid for a CH Flightstick. I think the extra\n$10.00 is worth it just in feel. Best thing to do is to ask a salesperson\nto let you try them out or at least feel it before you buy.\n\nJust another note, analogue joysticks are best for flightsims or something\nthat needs sensitive touch. If you're only playing games such as Castle\nWolfenstein or some other game that only uses digital input (ie. only up,\ndown, left, etc. instead of 'how much right') you might want to look into\na Gravis gamepad. They look like a Nintendo control pad but I don't know\nmuch beyond that.", "How do I view .eps files on X? I have an image in color encapsulated\npostscript, and need to view it on my screen.\n\nAre there any utilities that will let me convert between encapsulated\npostscript and plain postscript?", "Hi, It's time to clean my shelf, all price include shipping, so you don't\nhave to worry about it, just pay the amount you see.\n\n\nName Cover Publisher Year Origin Now\n----\t\t ----- --------- ---- ------ --- \n\nThe Ultimate DOS Heavy\nProgrammer's Manual Hard WindCrest 1991 $50 $25\n\nBit-Mapped Graphics Hard WindCrest 1990 $50 $25\n\nAlgorithms in C Hard Addison-Wesley 1990 $45 $25\n\nFile Structure Hard Addison-Wesley 1988 $36 $20\n\nProgramming with\nData Structure\n(Pascal Version) Soft Prentice Hall 1989 $? $10\n\nDigital Design Hard Wiley 1989 $51 $30\n\nNumerical Analysis Hard PWS-KENT 1990 $50 $25\n\n W. Disk \nBatch files to Go Soft McGraw-Hill 1992 $35 $25 \n \nAdvanced Batch W. Disk\nFile Programming Soft Mcgraw-Hill 1992 $30 $20\n\nComputer Graphics \nPrinciple and Heavy \nPractice Hard Addison-Wesley 1992 $65 $40\n\nStructure and \nInterpreter of\nComputer Program Hard Macgraw-Hill 1991 $40 $20\n\nC: An Advanced\n Introduction Hard Bell Tele Lab 1989 $40 $15\n\nBuilding C Library Soft WindCrest 1991 $25 $15\n\nX Window System\nC Lib and Protocol\nReference Soft Digital press 1992 $? $25 \n\nOh! Pascal! Soft W.W. Norton 1986 $? $10\n\nDifferential \nEquation Hard PWS-KENT 1990 $55 $15\n\nApplied Discrete \nStructure for\nComputer Science Hard MacMillan 1993 $45 $25\n\nProgramming in C++ Soft Prentice Hall 1990 $28 $15\n\nUsing WordPerfect 5.0 Soft Houghton 1989 $8 free with\n purchase\n\nLinear Algebra Hard Addison-Wesley 1991 $50 $30\n\n\nDEC Station W. Disks\nMS-DOS 3.30.01 Binders\nand GW-BASIC Box Digital ? ? $20\n\n***************************************************************************\n\nThe Big Gray Book: The next Step with ULTRIX\nUltrix/SQL Net User's Guide\n Database Adminstrator's Guide\n Reference Manual\n Error Message Dictionary\n Operation Guide\nGuide to Diskless Management Services\nGuide to Server Setup\nGuide to Remote Installation Service\nGuide to BIND/Hesiod Service\nGuide to the Network File System\nGuide to Ethernet Communication Servers\nIntroduction to Networking and Distributed System Service\nGuide to the Yellow Page Service\nGuide to Backup and Restore\nGuide to Shutdown and Startup\nGuide to Disk Maintenance\nGuide to Kerberos\nGudie to the uucp Utility\nGuide to IBM Terminal Emulation for VAX Processors\nGuide to Configuration File Maintenance\nGuide to SCAMP\nGuide to Printer Clients\nGuide to Adminstrator's security\nGuide to the Location Broker\nGuide to System and Network Setup\nGuide to System Environment Setup\nGuide to Software Licensing\nGuide to System Exercise\nGuide to Error Logger\nGuide to System Crash Recovery\nGuide to the Nawk Utility\nSecurity Guide for the users\nKernal Message reference Manual\nReference Page\nSection 4: Special Files\n 5: File Formats\n 7: Macro Package and Conventions\n\nAsking for $100/obo, it's pretty heavy though. ", "} I would like more info on this if anybody has it. Our Exabyte\n} 8500 tapedrive has never been working from the Quadra 950.\n} We have been trying it since September 1992, replaced cabling,\n} inits, I don't know what all. All the \"industry experts\" we\n} phoned (the tapedrive dealer, our Apple dealer, the software\n} dealer) all say it's our fault, or they don't know. The last\n} thing they said was that we needed a special Quadra SCSI terminator\n} (???). Anybody know more? Thanks,\n\n\nI have been using the PLI (SONY) 3.5\" MO drive and now a Sharp color\nscanner using standard SCSI cables and STANDARD $20 terminator on my Q700. \nNo problems. If you were using a IIfx, that might be another story.\n\nMake sure there is only one terminator in the cabling and it must be at the\nend. Some boxes have internal terminators; some can be switched out and\nothers are socketted. These count. If the box with internal terminations\ncannot be put on the end to terminate the cabling, they have to be\ndisabled, ie, switched out or pulled out of their sockets. If you have 2\nboxes with internal terminations, the terminations in one box has to be\ndisabled...., etc. I am sure that this has been covered by the \"experts\".\n\nMy experience with SCSI boxes that connect to the Mac indicates that they\nmust have some software package for the Mac to 'talk' to them. My PLI MO\ndrive and Sharp scanner has one for each.\n\nGood luck.", "Can anyone please email a diagram or give me details of an ftp site where there\nis a diagram of a simple, small fm mono voice transmitter for trasnmitting in\nthe 90-104 range (preferably above 100 Mhz). Only a short distance requiered,\nand frequency variation no too important but must run from 9v or smaller DC\nsupply.\n\nThanx in advance\n\nMonty.", "\ni installed dos 6 last week, and had nothing but trouble afterwards.\nwindows apps are hitting protection faults more than a kid can do \nto a pinata, and it does not seem to like to work with NDOS (norton \ndos 7.0). other probs include:\n\nset pcplus=d:\\pcplus for procomm plus no longer works.\nmany of the little utilities to written for dos no longer works\n\teither. (mostly shareware)\n\ni now have uninstalled dos 6 , and dos 5 works just fine.\nare there any apps that dos 6 will be able to run that dos 5 wont?\n", "I am looking for a large futon and frame.", "AS the subject says... looking for a HP 48s or perferiably HP 48sx\n\nPlease E-mail replies.\nThanks", "\nThat is, if the special software is free, like Xfree86. There are\nvendors that sells Diamond X drivers for commercial Unices. But\nthen, they charge $$$$.\n\n\nI think they only need a signing (i.e. no paying). This still\nviolates the FSF's policy of publically available code.\n\n\nWhile this is true, there are fixes for those who have already\nbought Diamond cards. In Linux, for example, there are utilities\nthat will put the card in VESA mode before invoking X. Of course,\nthis means no fine tuning of Diamond cards, but at least this\nwill allow those who're stuck with them to use Linux+X.\n\nI agree with Mark's suggestion: If you are buying a video card\nfor specialized free software, avoid Diamond. But if you already\nhave one, there may be a fix that can help you.\n\nJames.\n\n-- \njjctc@chevron.com | The shortest distance between\njtsiao@netcom.com | two puns is a straight line.", "\nDoes USL SVR4 support LD_RUN_PATH a la Solaris 2?\nOr an equivalent?\n\nIf so, you can put the library in a package specific lib directory,\ncompile the app with LD_RUN_PATH defined, and all should work.\n\nBesides, I'd say name it libPACKAGExcl.a if possible.\n\nCheers,", "o Sony Color Watchman, model FDL-310\n - VHF/UHF\n - 86,400 pixels; 2.7 inch (diag) screen\n - dimensions 3 3/8\" x 6 1/8\" x 1 3/16\"\n - bright, vibrant colors, and very sharp (unlike the Casio pocket TVs)\n - AC power adapter\n - paid $300.00\n Asking $150.00 obo\n", "Does anybody know where I can get, via anonymous ftp or otherwise, a PostScript\ndriver for the graphics libraries GINO verison 3.0A ?\n\nWe are runnining on a VAX/VMS and are looking for a way outputing our plots to a\nPostScript file...\n\n\nThanks in advance...", "Can somone explain to me all the stuff about modems...\nlike v.32 v.42 HST USRobotics...\n \nwhy cheap 14.4 can' t cannot connect fast to some modems...\n\n\njust explain to me everything!!! thanks..\n", "I notice the Toshiba 3401 has 3 versions, B - internal, E - external and P -\nportable. Can anyone tell me the difference between the portable and the\nexternal version? Where in the SF Bay Area can I find a model P?\n\nThanks, --Bill", "\tActually there is an S3-based card on the market that supports\n\tmultiple adapters in one system. Unfortunately, It is VL-Bus\n\tonly (They may have an ISA version by now...?) from a company\n\tcalled Metheus. The address and phone number is:\n\n\t\t\tMetheus Corp\n\t\t\tOGC Science Park\n\t\t\t1600 NW Compton Dr.\n\t\t\tBeaverton, OR 97006-6905\n\t\t\t(503)-690-1550\n\tBe aware, this is a very high-end card, capable of 4MB of VRAM,\n\tso it does not come CHEAP. But, I have personally seen TWO of\n\tthese boards running a dual screen Windows 3.1.\n\n\n", "We have recently obtained a Centris 610 and it has developed an unusual\nvideo problem. \n\nModel:\t610 with 8 MB/230 HD, 512K VRAM, no cards\nMonitor:\tApple 16\"\n\nWhen the computer is set for 256 colors and certain operations are done,\nparticularly vertical scrolling through a window, horizontal white lines\nappear on the monitor (which generally but not always spare open\nwindows). These lines accummulate as the operation is continued. If a\nwindow is moved over the involved area of the screen and then moved away\nthe line disappear from that area of the screen. This problem is not\nobserved if the monitor is configured for 16 colors or a 14 inch Apple\nmonitor with 256 colors is used. \n\nI suspect a bad video RAM chip but cannot be certain. The problem has\nbeen apparent since day 1 but has gotten worse.\n\nWe were wondering if anyone has seen anything like this, and if so, how\nto fix it. Please also respond to azelenet@bigmac.mskcc.org. Thank you\nfor your help.", "I also have a pair of size 11-11.5 Raichle Flexon Comps.\nThese boots are black and yellow. they are in good condition.\nI would like around $100 for them also but feel\nfree to make an offer.\n\nPlease reply to: crane@coral.bucknell.edu\n\nThanks,", "The following is based on copies I was given of some articles published in\nHearing Instruments. I would appreciate any comments about this and other\n'new' technology for hearing aids.\n\nThe ReSound system was developed on the basis of some research at AT&T and\nappears to take a different approach from other aids. It appears to me that\na new 'programmable' aid like the Widex just uses a more flexible (and\nprogrammable) version of the classical approach of amplifying some parts of\nthe spectrum more than others and adding some compression to try and help\nout in 'noisy' situations.\n\nThe major difference in the ReSound approach is that it divides the\nspectrum into low and high frequencies (splitting point is programmable),\napparently based on the fact that lots of vowel information can be found in\nthe low frequencies, while the important consonant information\n(unfortunately for me) is in the high frequencies. The two bands then are\ntreated with different compression schemes which are programable. They have\nalso developed a new fitting algorythm that builds on what they call\n'abnormal growth of loudness'.\n\nThis latter is interesting and fits my own personal experience, though I\nthink the phrase is missleading. What appears to be the case is that as you\nexceed the minimum threshold for a person with hearing loss, the deficit\nbecomes progresslively less compared to normals and by the time you reach\nthe 'too loud' point the sensitivity curves appear to converge. This means\nthat if you just boost all sound levels, you are overloading at the high\nend for people with hearing losses. Hence what you want is progressively\nless amplification as the signal get closer to the maximum tolerable point.\nYou want to boost low volume sounds more than high and do so potentially\ndifferently for the low and high frequency parts of the spectrum (specially\nfor someone like me who is relatively normal up to 1000 cps and then falls\noff a cliff).\n\nAids with simple compressors don't descriminate between energy in the low\nand high frequencies and can therefor 'compress' useful high frequency\ninformation because of high volume of low frequency components.\nParticularly impressive was the ReSound performance with whispered speech\nand in simulated restaurant noise situations. ", "\nActually, info@qdeck.com is our customer service department. If you have\ntechnical questions, you can write to support@qdeck.com.\n\n\nI expect the limiting factor will be your server machine, not the network\nitself. To give you a real-world example, here at Quarterdeck we have\nroughly 100 people using DVX to talk to a bunch of unix boxes, novell\nfile servers, and each other. It's not _too_ much of a load on our\nEthernet (with maybe 4 concentrators, so you have 20-30 people on each\nsegment). If you had a badly loaded net, or the apps you wanted to run\nwere very network intensive, you could run into some slowdowns.\n\nBut the biggest problem would be the machine itself. Say you have a 486\n33 with plenty of ram and a fast hard disk and network card. If you have\n10 people running programs off it, you're going to see some slowdowns\nbecause you're now on (effectively) a 3.3 MHz 486. Of course, DVX will\nattempt to see if tasks are idle and make sure they give up their time\nslice, but if you have 10 working programs running, you'll know it.\n\nHaving said that, if you can tweak the programs being run (by adding\nin calls to give up time slices when idle and that sort of\nthing), you could probably run 15-20 people on a given machine before\nyou started seeing slowdowns again (this time from network bandwidth).\nIt all really depends on what the programs are doing (ie. you're going\nto see a slowdown from X-bandwidth a lot sooner if your apps are all\ndoing network things also...)", "Does anybody have an opinion on the Philips 1762DT 17\" monitor? How does it\ncompare to the Nanao 17\"? I am looking for a good 17\" (like many other\nnet'ers) and found a good price for the Philips. Here some the specs:\n\n\tSony Trinitron tube\n\tdigital micro control\n\t1280x1024 NI\n\t.25 dp\n\t300x225 mm display area\n\tto 100 Hz refresh\n\tanti-glare, MPR-II...\n\tauto-scan 30-64 kHz\n\nWhy don't I ever see this monitor for sale (ONE company in Apr computer shopper)\nWhat is the 1764DC? What is the best price around for this?....\n\nand how 'bout that MAG 17\"? I love my MAG 15\" (except for that little color\nalignment thing on the l/r edges)...\n", "\n\n\n\tActually, no I don't have a tape drive. In the event of a total\nhard disk failure, I reinstall the apps from originals, and restore the data\nfrom the backups I keep of that. With upwards of 100Mb of stuff on my hard\ndisk, there is no way I'm going to try and back it all up without a tape\ndrive. :) Would be nice to have one though!\n\n\n\tMaybe, maybe not. Today it doesn't happen as often (I would hope),\nbut then if a BIOS is buggy and the user gets an upgrade, the BIOS\ninformation is going to change, at least the date anyway. Tagging the BIOS\nmanufacturer is still going to falsely tag those users who upgrade the\nmotherboard. This type of upgrade doesn't require a hard disk\nbackup/restore.\n\n\n\tAs long as it wasn't done too terribly often. Otherwise I think it\nwould get annoying and the user would go looking for other software.\n\n\n\n\tOf course not. If something gets corrupted and my app needs to be\nreinstalled, the *worst* thing I want that software telling me is \"this\nsoftware has already been registered to and it is against the law to\ninstall it on other machines.\" Or something similar; Access for Windows\ndoes this and it only requires a click on \"OK\" to go away. Pretty\nnon-intrusive, but it gets the point across.\n\n\n\tThis is a great idea. I like the key system that some shareware\nproducts use. The only problem is that it will be difficult for big\nsoftware companies to implement this without it getting very\ncost-ineffective for them and more of a burden than a benefit to the users.\n\n--\nSteve Madsen\nsjmadsen@nextsrv.cas.muohio.edu", "I have had a Gateway Telepath modem for about a month or so now.\nActually, I had one that wouldn't connect to ANYTHING no matter\nwhat software I used, so I got a new one sent to me. This allows\nme to connect to my favorite News system with ZERO problems. So\nI'm somewhat happier ....\n\nBut I still cannot connect to my favorite DOS bbs with any kind\nof reliability. I have success about 1/10 calls. Not good! I\nwould hope that the fact that this one can connect to at least\nONE of my fave places means I just need to adjust it.\n\nWhat I usually get is a fast stream of garbage, in the modem response\nline on the dial window. Sometimes it will drop to full screen mode\nfirst, then I get about 2-3 screens of garbage. In both cases the\nmodem seems to time out before connecting and drops carrier.\n\nI am using DEFAULT settings (AT&F) and getting this problem. I\nam using the AUTOCONFIGURE settings that Gateway has supplied with\nmy copy of Qmodem (ATW1&C1&D2S95=44&W0) and getting this problem.\n(They have refused to help me beyond this, claiming \"it must be\nthe BBS\" or something like that. Not so -- my work modem connects\nto this same place just fine, using factory settings -- a Microcom.)\n\nAnyone have any ideas?!", "386DX 25Mhz (DTK motherboard Intel microprocessor)\n 128k internal cache\n 4 megs Ram\n 89 meg Harddrive (IDE controller)\n 1.2 meg floppy drive\n 1.44 meg floppy drive\n 2 serial ports\n 1 parallel port\n Samsung VGA monitor\n VGA graphics card\n 101 key keyboard\n 2400 baud internal modem\n\n MS-DOS 6.0\n Procomm Plus ver. 2.0\n Norton Utilities ver. 4.5\n other varius utilities\n\nI'm upgrading and need to sell. The system is reliable and ready to go.\nI've never had any problems with it.\n\nI'm asking $1050 o.b.o.\n\nIf you're interested, please respond by either E-mail or phone.\n\nTAE0460@zeus.tamu.edu\nor\n409-696-6043", " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nDoes this mean they can either do alpha or stenciling, but not both\nsimultaneously?\n\n ^^\n\nSame question again, does this mean they can either do double\nbuffering or stereo, but not both simultaneously?\n-- ", "\nXGA or XGA-2? For the original XGA you just need something that can do\n1024x768 at 45/90Hz interlaced (just tell them \"8514 compatible\" and they\nshould get the idea). For the XGA-2, get what you like. I prefer multi-\nsyncs like the IBM 6319, the NECs or even a fixed frequency monitor like\nmy home Viewsonic 6. I like the Multisyncs because it's easy to run them\nin modes like 800x600x64k colors noninterlaced, or at higher modes like\n1360x1024x16.", "\nYes, I do. A couple of years ago, I did a comparison of the two\nproducts. Some of this may have changed, but here goes.\n\nAs far as a PHIGS+ implementation, Figaro+ is fine. But, its PHIGS!\nPersonally, I hate PHIGS because I find it is too low level. I also\ndislike structure editing, which I find impossible, but enough about\nPHIGS.\n\nI have found HOOPS to be a system that is full-featured and easy to\nuse. They support all of their rendering methods in software when\nthere is no hardware support, their documentation is good, and they\nare easily portable to other systems.\n\nI would be happy to elaborate further if you have more specific\nquestions. ", "I have used both my serial ports with a modem and a serial printer, \nso I cannot use Appletalk. Is there a Ethernet to Localtalk hardware\nthat will let me use the Ethernet port on my Q700 as a Localtalk \nport. Until they come out with\nsatellite dishes that sit on your window & give you internet access\nfrom your home, I won't at all be using that port.", " -----------------------------------------------------------\n\n\n\nAnimation is most frequently done by copying the the client resident XImages into \nserver resident Pixmap(s) using XPutImage. Once this is done, the original XImages\ncan be deleted and the animation loop can be performed using XCopyArea from the Pixmaps to the windows drawable.\n\nHope this is helpfull.", "\n\n\nOr the library might be there but not pointed to by LD_LIBRARY_PATH.", "\nI've got a 386DX-40, 4MB and I'm using Windows 3.1. Sometimes I wondered why \nWindows worked endlessly on my HD when I was doing nothing (execpt having lunch\nor something like that). Then I turned this virtual memory swapfile off, and\nWindows became quite faster, but now having less memory free. And so I'm still\nwondering, why windows is reading everything from virtual memory when the\nconvertional is sufficient? Any common-sense-explanation is really appreciated.\n\n \n", "Organization: Compact Solutions, Canberra ACT Australia\n\nI have a floppy drive which has developed \"General failure\" errors. (It's a Teac 1.44Mb 3.5\" drive).\n\nI took it out of the machine and noticed it was very dusty. I used a high powered air can to blow all this dust out and it's quite clean now.\n\nHowever, it didn't help the problem. I've also identified that when the machine boots (and the drive seeks for a boot disk), the head movement during this process is now approximately half the length of the original time. What I mean is the period when the drive light comes on and the heads move from their retracted position out to the track containing the boot sector.\n\nIs there anything more I can do to try and save this drive? I'd prefer not to shell out $100 for a new one if I can help it.\n\nThanks!\n\nCheers, Ben\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nBen J. Elliston\nBachelor of Engineering (Computer Engineering) \\\\\\//\nUniversity of Canberra (@ @)\n ___ooO_( )_Ooo__\nEmail: compsol@fir.canberra.edu.au V\nAlso: ellib@cbr.cpsg.com.au\nUUCP: ..!uunet!munnari!sserve.adfa.oz.au!compsol!root\nFidoNet: 3:620/262\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------", "I am using OWL and want to display the output from a stream in a popup\nwindow. Is there a way to perhaps redirect cout to a window? Or\nalternatively set up a separate stream that supports output and be\nable to display the stream output in an TEdit control?\n\nAnyone ever done something like this?\n--", " I am thinking about buying a new motherboard and a cyrix 486dlc 40 or 33 Mh\nz. It will be an upgrade from a 386sx 25. I was wondering if anybody has any\nFACTS they can fill me in on. If anybody has one what do you think about it?\nI will also get a cyrix math co with it. I have benchmarks for the two chips a\nnd they look very good for the price. If anybody responds please send me email\n because I usually don't check the mail very often but I check my reader daily.\n Thanks for your info, and remember only respond if you have legitimate comp\nlaints or praise, not just to Cyrix/AMD bash. I know about what Byte, computer\n shopper, pc computing and etc... have said and that is why I am considering\nthe Cyrix chip. Thanks.........\n", "about 2.5Kbyte without Novell 3.11 support.\n\nNo.\n\nNo.\nNearly all.\n\nWe run mixed WNT beta and W4WG, no problem apart from printer sharing( beta problem)\n\nWe had problems with mouse drivers using W4WG where Windows 3.1 didn't, seems to be \nmore critical about it. It was actualy a port problem with the network card running on 0x2e0, we changed it to 0x300, now everything is allright, I think it has to do with the AMI Bios as well.\n\n\n\n", "Then again, maybe $2445 for the gateway system isn't too cheap.\n\nI have a system from Micron computers:", "Hello,\n\nWe are looking for a graphics package (preferably complete\nwith source code) that will run on our UNIX operating system\n(a Sequent running DYNIX 3.2). This graphics package must \nsupport a wide variety of character based graphics devices \n(PC's running a terminal emulator, primarily). \nAt this point, X11 graphics is not an option.\n\nThis graphics program should, if possible, support these\nsorts of graphics operations (minimum requirements):\n\n 1) Complicated axes (log, linear, etc.) with fairly\n precise axis labels (multi-line labels, etc.)\n Major and minor tickmarks on axes, etc.\t\n \n 2) It would be nice if some limited amount of color\n plotting were available, if the output device\n supported it.\n\nWe have a copy of gnuplot and are currently using it, but\ngnuplot has some limitations. We are looking for something\nmore robust than gnuplot.\n\nAt this point, I'm looking for information about packages that\nmight solve our problems. If you have any information, please\ncontact me at the above email address. If the product you know\nabout is a commercial software package, please send a phone number\nor email address so that I can contact them about pricing, etc.", "\n\nAs an earlier post noted - through DMA.\n\n\n\nAny one time means IMHO a single byte xfer. If I have four sources of\nDMA requests ready, the DMA would service the one after the other. If\nthe bandwidth for the four together is lower than the ISA/DMA\nbandwidth, this will work.\n\nNote that the bus mastering here is the priority mechanism in the DMA\ncontroller.\n\n--\nPenio Penev x7423 (212)327-7423 (w) Internet: penev@venezia.rockefeller.edu", "\n Complete Q700 are best obtained from your dealer or some recent\ncopy of MacWorld or MacUser. My foggy memory suggests that the most relevant\ncomparison factors vis-a-vis a IIci are as follows:\n\n 25 MHz 68040\n 16 Mhz data path (don't recall this for sure, but it's slower\n than Q 950 style machines for sure).\n Ethertalk card on-board\n Audio in/out\n 4 MB RAM on motherboard\n 4 SIMM slots\n 2 NuBus slots.\n More flexible build-in video than the CI. Uses VRAM.\n\nIn comparison, a IIci with an accelerator won't give you\n audio or ethernet or the same video options.\n With a 68040 accelerator, CPU performance can be comparable but I\n think it ends up costing more.", "Can someone tell me the maximum horizontal and vertical refresh rates of the\nNEC 5fgx.(not the 5fge)", "WANTED - 4 256K 60ns SIPS", "I know that there is a list of the best shareware and public domain\nprograms for Windows at the cica ftp site, but unfortunately it is a\nyear old. The list author made it sound like the list was going to be\nupdated every month. Is it still being updated? Does anyone else\ncompile a similar list?\n \nAlso are there any individual suggestions as to what the best\nshareware/public domain programs are? I'm interested in good software\nin just about every category (please try and include the ftp site and\nexact file name, if possible, in your post).\n\nThanks, \nSam\n\n\n--\nsiockman@leland.stanford.edu", "I need to get some info. on cellular antennas.. who\nare the biggest companies in this market now? how much\ndo their antenna cost? what are the specs on the antennas\n(gain, directivity)...? who is the contact person?\n\n\nthank-you ", "If a X-window package exists, that runs om PC, DOS (and maybe MS-windows)\nI would be very happy to hear about it.\n\nThanx in advance.", "A friend of mine recently acquired an 8!24 GC card for his IIsi\nand was wondering why it always starts up in black and white.\nI know there have been numerous reports about the worth of\nthe GC, but I was wondering if anyone could elaborate a little\nmore on the subject. Any replies encouraged. Thanks in ad-\nvance.", "There is a cartridge capping upgrade for older deskjet printers\navailable from hewlett-packard. Older original deskjet and\npossibly deskjet 500 units may have a black plastic slide with\nrubber capping components in the cartrige parking area on the right\nside (viewed from front) of the printer. Newer printers have a\ngray or white plastic slide. The black plastic slide can allow\nyour cartridge to dry out. There was and may still be information\npackaged with ink cartridges explaining the situation. HP placed a\ncoupon for a free upgrade kit to modernize old deskjets to the new\ncapping mechanism. I did this on my printer and did indeed find\nthat the cartidges now last longer.\n\nI don't have the information handy. I suggest contacting your\nnearest HP service center for information on obtaining the kit.\n\nHP has upgrade kits that consist of electronics and mechanical\ncomponents that vary depending on the starting level printer and\nthe level to which you wish to upgrade. I upgraded my original\ndesket to a dekjet 500. The kit was fairly expensive. You are\nlikely better off selling your old printer and purchasing a new\ndeskjet 500 now that prices have declined so much. Upgrading an\noriginal deskjet to 500 requires a fair amount of skill, but no\nsoldering. Upgrading a deskjet plus to a 500 is involves swapping\nthe processor card and changing a few minor parts. Contact your HP\nservice center for further information.\n\nThe PCL language used by Deskjets is considerably different from\nthe PCL used by laser printers, especially the newer laser\nprinters. The biggest problem is dumb laser drivers that send a\nraster end command after each scan line. This makes no material\ndifference for lasers, but causes the deskjet to print the\naccumulated raster. As you might guess, the result is hideously\nslow printing. The new DOS Wordperfect print deskjet drivers are\nstill guilty of this particular behavior. From the way Wordperfect\nworks, this would not be easy to change. Windows Wordperfect works\nefficiently unless you use the DOS drivers instead of Windows'.\n\nThe PCL4 dialect used in the Laserjet IIIP allows compression that\npermits a full page 300 dpi image to be rendered with only one\nmegabyte of memory. An uncompressed image could be as large as\nabout 909 Kbytes, but the printer needs about 300K of memory for\nits internal house-keeping. Laserjet IV models support banded\nprinting that allows incrmental download of the image with\ncompression in limited memory situations. Deskjet downloadable\nfonts are not compatible with laserjet fonts.\n\nA single page from a laserjet only requires about 20 seconds. This\nis faster than any but the most trivial printing from a deskjet\nprinter. The presumption, of course, being that the laser printer\nhas completed its warm-up cyle.\n\nUntil ink chemistry is changed, wicking resulting in image\ndeterioration is unavoidable. I won't use the word impossible, but\nmatching laser quality output from a deskjet printer is unlikely.\nChosing an appropriate paper type helps, but does not eliminate the\nproblem.\n\nLaser printers are more wastful of energy and consumable\ncomponents. HP does accept return of spent toner cartridges,\nmitigating the material waste problem to a degree. Energy waste\ncould use more work. Warm-up times have decreased, allowing\nstand-by current consumption to be significantly reduced in the\nlaserjet IV.\n\nKyocera produces a laser print engine that employs an amorphous\nsilicon imaging drum with a replacable toner system. The image\ndrum is good for approximately 100K copies. It is a very nice\nprint engine. I wish HP used the Kyocera engine. Kyocera also has\na neat modular paper source and stacker system.\n\nThe recommended duty cycle for a deskjet is significantly lower\nthan any of HP's laser printers. The pick-up pressure rollers are\nsubject to wear and I case confirm eventually do wear out. The\nusual symptom is that the printer becomes reluctant to feed paper.\nThe paper feed is integrated in a transport mechanism that is a\nsingle part from HP service. Replacement cost for the transport is\nalmost $200. The feed rollers are not separately replacable,\nthough it would not be a difficult job for a competent technician.\nI have disassembled and reassembled the transport on my own printer.\n\nIt depends upon the application which printer is best for you. If\nyou only print 5 or 10 pages a day and are satisfied with the\nappearance of output, the deskjet is a very good choice. As noted,\nthe deskjet 500 is my choice for personal use.\n\n", ": I live up in British Columbia, Canada.The cable company I use is called\n: Rogers Cable. Does anyone know of their scrambling techniques, and ways of\n: getting\n: around them? Any suggestions of what they might use?\n: \nI don't know the answer to your question, but I am sure Rogers Cable can so\nI tool the libery of forwarding your question to them and I am sure they\nwill be in touch. :-)", "Hello,\n\n\t\tI have two 3b1s for sale. One of them is a 1MB RAM\n\tand the other one is a 2MB RAM system. They are both running\n\tthe 3.51m version and I have loaded lots of software on them\n\tfrom the network like gcc, emacs, tex/latex and so on. I am\n\tasking $500 for the 1MB, and $650 for the 2MB model or best \n\toffer.\n\n______________________________________________________________________________\n Odysseas Pentakalos\t\t\t\todysseas@umbc7.umbc.edu or\n University of Md. Electrical Engineering Dept. \n\t\t\t\t\todysseas@polaris.medinfo.ab.umd.edu\n (301) 498-3749\t\t\t\t\t(410) 706-2042", "Since the demise of the Outbound company, what options would exist for me \nif I were to buy one of their laptops? \n\n(1) Since the Outbounds (2030, 2030E, etc) use mac plus roms, won't that \nseverly limit using future applications?\n\n(2) What is a reasonable price for one of their laptops? The prices I've \nseen seem extremely high considering the limited choices now.\n\n(3) How reliable have they proven?\n\nAny answers would be helpful.\n", "\n\n\n\nAlsys has produced a paper outlining how to use C++ with TeleUSE. You can\nget a copy from your local sales rep or call us at (619)457-2700.\n\nAs mentioned, it is very straight forward using the Dialog language\n(similar to Visual Basic).\n\n\n-- ", "\nThen don't complain (maybe it wasn't you) that SCSI was so expensive on\nPC's because all we've had until a year or two ago was the ISA bus.\n(ie no one buys SCSI for ISA because ISA is slow)\nAre you saying that SCSI on an ISA bus is not an automatic winner when\ncompared to IDE?\n\n\nI get different transfer rates out of my IDE when I change my ISA bus speed.\n\n\nIDE is just a variant of the old IBM- MFM AT controller. (at least that's\nhow it looks from a software point of view). It was never meant to be\nan all-encompassing protocal/standard to be implimented across different\nplatforms.\n\nIs there any argument that \nIDE can (or can't) transfer data from the IDE drive at least as fast as the\ndrive is able to provide the data? Are SCSI versions of IDE drives able\nto deliver higher sustained transfer rates to their SCSI interface (because\nof a higher RPM platter, different arrangement of heads, etc?)?\n\n\nIf data is going from one drive to another, and if SCSI has the ability to\nperform that transfer without the data having to go through the CPU or main\nmemory, then yes, that is the optimal way to do it. As far as I know, IDE\ncan't do that. But when the CPU wants data from both drives (data to be stored\nin main memory) are you saying that SCSI can grab data from both drives \nat the same time *and* store/transfer that data to main memory also at the\nsame time? Working off 1 IRQ and 1 DMA channel on an ISA (or whatever) bus?\n\n\nA friend of mine just got a Maxtor 245 meg IDE drive for $320. (that's 245\nmillion bytes, or 234 mega-bytes). With the basic $20 interface, he gets\nclose to 1 meg/sec transfer on his 286-20. Does your figure include a few\nhundred $$$ for SCSI drivers?\n\n\nSo you're saying that SCSI would have been the default interface type,\nconsidering that the vast majority of PC's don't have cd-rom drives or\ntape backups or etc? That most PC's only have (or had) 1 hard drive and\nrun DOS? That SCSI hard drives cost a lot more than MFM or RLL drives\nat the time? (and how common were SCSI drives under 80 megs 4 to 10 years\nago?) There's a lot more than the lack of a common interface card that\nprevented SCSI from becoming the connection medium of choice.\n\n\nBut on that point, is it faster? This is what all this is about. Do you\nget more performance for the money. For all the people that will only have\na single hard drive in their system (regardless of the OS) will the SCSI\nchoice really give them more performance than IDE?\n\n\nTrue, but expandibility can also start on the bus, which means the option\nis there for cd-rom drives or tape backups that run off their own cards.\n\n\nNo argument. This is always held up to the first time SCSI buyer as the\nbest reason. But how many SCSI devices will the first time SCSI buyer\neventually acquire? Again does it make sense to go SCSI for a single\nhard drive system?\n\n\nWith all the postings on the SCSI I or II specs, are you really sure that\nPC and Apple SCSI hard drives are compatible? And even if they are, \nis the data accessible from either machine (ie are there no formatting/\npartitioning or file table differences?) Is it really plug'n'play?\n\n\nSo the C: drive on the connor becomes a logical D: drive to DOS. Is this\nreally a problem? \n\n\nAfter having two IDE drives in my system for temporary file transfers,\nI have never seen any differences when switching between drives, nor\nhave I ever seen any differences when transfering files between drives or\nto/from the same drive.\n\n\nThat is nice (as long as the power supply can keep up). I do believe that\nthere is the possibility for up to 4 IDE drives on a PC.\n", "I'm having a slight problem with the POV raytracer. I'm not sure if\nthis is the correct group to post to or not. I create .tga files on\na unix machine using pov. Then when i download them to display on my pc,\nthey're listed as bad files. But when I create the file on my pc, it displays\nfine. Are unix .tga's incompatible with the pc? An easy solution to this\nproblem would be a unix targa->gif converter. Anyone know where I could\nfind one? Any help on this subject is appreciated. ", "I am developing an X (Xt,Xm) application that will include a graphics window\nof some sort with moving symbols among other things. A pure X application\ncould be implemented with Motif widgets, one of which would be an \nXmDrawingArea for drawing with Xlib. But I would like to take advantage of\nthe Graphics Library (GL) available on our IBM RS/6000 (SGI's GL i believe).\n\nIs it possible to mix X and GL in one application program?\nCan I use GL subroutines in an XmDrawingArea or in an X window opened by me\nwith XOpenWindow?\n\nI have never used GL before, but the doc on GL winopen() says that the first\ntime winopen() is called it opens a connection to the server. Also, most of\nthe GL calls do not require a Display or GC, unlike most X calls. From this\ninitial information it appears that X and GL cannot be mixed easily. Is this\ntrue?\n\nDoes PEX (graPHIGS?) have the same functionality of GL?\n\n\nEnvironment:\n AIXwindows X11R4\n Motif 1.1\n GL is available\n AIX Sys V 3.2\n IBM RS/6000 360\n\n\nThanks in advance.\n\nJay Graham\nJade Simulations International Corp.\n14 Colonnade Road, Suite 150\nNepean, Ontario, Canada\n613-225-5900 x226", "\n\nI've seen a listing of a Seagate 1G IDE hard drive.\n\n\nWindows NT already supports SCSI, a variety of adapters, for disk,\ntape, and CD-ROM. So does OS/2 2.0.", "I bought my HP48sx calculator a month ago, used once but put it back in the\nbox. Includes manual and I'm including about 7 high density disks packed with\ndozens if not hundreds of games and programs. All you need to do is buy the\npc cable for around $20 bucks so you could use the software. \n \n\t \n\t \n\t $255 shipping included or best offer.", "\n\nComputer: 286-25 mhz\nBus: ISA (12.5 mhz)\nDrive: Maxtor 7213A (213 mb)\n\n config.sys / autoexec.bat\n\n MS DOS 5 no WIN 3.1\n smartdrv.sys cache smartdrv.exe\n\nCORE (V 2.7) 6950 k/sec 1390 k/sec 1395 k/sec\nNorton SI (V 5.0) 730 k/sec 980 k/sec 982 k/sec\n\nI'd still like to here from people with VLB-IDE.\nI still want to know what VLB bus speed is used with IDE drives.\nI still want to know if some (most ?) IDE drives can handle bus speeds > 8 mhz.", "Has ANYONE who has ordered the new PC version of Imagine ACTUALLY recieved\nit yet? I'm just about ready to order but reading posts about people still\nawaiting delivery are making me a little paranoid. Has anyone actually \nheld this piece of software in their own hands?\n\nLater,", "Are you (two) joking?\nIs the entire Internet flaming you (two)?\nAhh!, now I remember that Ohmite company was the first introducing \"the pink\ncolored resistor\", only for electronics working females ;-)", "\nWhat tube does the Viewsonic 17 use? Does is support 1600x1280? I've been\nlooking a a Philips 1762DT which uses a Sony Trinitron tube, has digital\ncontrols, supports up to 1280x1024NI, and has .25mm dot pitch - It can be\nfound for under $1000.\n\n", "\n Do you really need to switch to a DX2/66 instead of a DX50? As I\n understand it, DX50's can have local bus devices (on the mother-board?)\n but not local bus slots. And according to what I been told, many\n systems go beyond the VESA local bus standard in order to provide DX50\n systems with a local bus slot capability. I have definitly seen a\n mother board with 2 local bus slots which claimed to be able to\n support any CPU, including the DX2/66 and DX50. Can someone throw\n some more informed light on this issue?\n\nYou will need to check with peripheral makers to see if their boards\nwill work at 50 MHz. Some will with some motherboards.\n", "I recently upgraded to a 486 and have found out I don't really have a need\nfor my old 386. I'd prefer to sell just the motherboard and keep the case\netc, so I'll offer the motherboard and case separately and let you decide.\n\nI'm asking $325 for the motherboard, which has:\n 25Mhz 386 DX (not SX)\n 8 megabytes of 32-bit, 70ns memory\n AMI BIOS\n based on C&T NEAT chipset\n \t(this means the motherboard and bus circuitry timings are\n\tprogrammable - the BIOS' advanced configuration menus let you\n\tselect system, DMA, bus clock, wait states, command delays, etc.)\n \"baby AT\" sized - fits in mini-tower, full-sized or most any other case\n(Includes User's Guide and a copy of the BIOS reference manual)\n\nFor $150 more you could have the rest of the system too:\n full-size AT case with 200(?) watt power supply\n 2 serial, 1 parallel, 1 game ports\n 20Mb hard disk\n 1.2Mb floppy disk\n keyboard\n video card (choice of VGA or ???)\n\nIf you're interested, please give me a call. The system is set up at my house\nin Aloha, and you're welcome to come test drive it.", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\nExactly...\n\nI didn't want to mess with tga or rle. So I wrote the following script. \nAll you need is the very standard set of pbm utilities. \n\nThis script is a .pov to .jpg converter. Just run it like this:\n\n pov2jpg 1280 1024 fred.pov \n\nYou will need to modify the path's in the script to reflect where you put\npovray and its include files. If you have a problem with disk space, you\ncan use named pipes instead of temporary files.\n\nI hope you find it useful...\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n#!/bin/sh\n\nif [ $# -lt 3 ] ; then\n echo \"usage: $0 width height sourcefile.pov other_options\"\n exit\nfi\n\nwidth=$1\nheight=$2\ndatafile=$3\nshift 3\n\n#basedatafile=`echo $datafile | sed -e \"s/\\(.*\\)\\.pov/\\1/\"`\n\nthedatafile=`basename $datafile` \nbasedatafile=`basename $datafile .pov` \ndirdatafile=`dirname $datafile` \n\ncd $dirdatafile\n/afs/rnd.sas.com/u/sherman/pov/povsrc/build/povray \\\n +l/afs/rnd.sas.com/u/sherman/pov/povscn/include \\\n +o/tmp/data$$ +w${width} +h${height} +fr +i${thedatafile} $*\n\necho \" \"\nrawtopgm $width $height < /tmp/data$$.grn > /tmp/green$$\nrawtopgm $width $height < /tmp/data$$.red > /tmp/red$$\nrawtopgm $width $height < /tmp/data$$.blu > /tmp/blue$$\nrgb3toppm /tmp/red$$ /tmp/green$$ /tmp/blue$$ | cjpeg > ${basedatafile}.jpg \nrm /tmp/red$$ /tmp/green$$ /tmp/blue$$ /tmp/data$$.grn /tmp/data$$.red \\\n /tmp/data$$.blu\necho \"Wrote output to ${basedatafile}.jpg\"\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n", "What would be a good platform for some fairly basic video work of the\nfollowing nature:\n\nReading real video in for playbak in various app's 5-10 Minnutes in length\nBasic editing features for said video - rearange sequences, adding grapic\nslides from something like power point etc... \n\nI'm not to familiar with this stuff but would like a good system with crisp\nperformance. It's for educational/promotional things so the video quality\nshould be decent.\n\nI'm thinking Tempest or cyclone, Big drive,loads o ram, Floptical or 128Mb\noptical ?? - however, I'm not to sure of the various cards and software\nthats out there.\n\nPlease email any responses,\n\nThanks", "\nI believe the FPU on the LCIII is always supposed to go on the logic\nboard, not in the PDS board. I have heard of crashing problems with\nPDS-based FPUs on the LCIII. Asante may have fixed them but why\nbother. Why bother building an LCIII card with an FPU anyway? The\nextra circuitry gives the card one more chance to fail. I say FPU on\nmain logic board, in socket, Ethernet alone on PDS card, in slot.\n", "PC TOOLS 8.0\n\nall original disk & manual\nregistration card included\ndisk size 3.5\"\nprice $60 + shipping", "I just hooked up my Mac IIsi to a relatively old (1 year?) Asante EN/SC\nadapter. The 10Base-T connection works like a charm. I installed the\nnewest drivers from Asante's ftp server.\n\nThe problem begins when I attach one more device to the SCSI chain -\nspecifically a 50MB drive. I power up the drive, then the Mac. The Mac\ntests memory, etc. Just before the \"happy Mac face\" normally shows up, the\npower light on the EN/SC goes out, and the boot process stops. So I can use\nthe network, or the external drive, but not both at once. This makes the\nAsante box pretty much unusable.\n\nIt doesn't look like a purely electrical SCSI problem, because if I turn\non the drive just a second or so too late, so that it doesn't get noticed\nduring the initial SCSI polling, the Mac boots normally and the adapter\nworks, even though the hard disk is powered on and connected. The Mac has\n*never* once failed to boot from its internal drive up to now (and I've had\nit for over a year).\n\nHere is what I tried: changing the SCSI ID's of the EN/SC and the disk --\nseveral permutations; changing the order of devices, i.e. the EN/SC at the\nhead or tail of the chain; overterminating with an external terminator\n(both devices have internal ones); underterminating, i.e. removing internal\nresistors from the hard disk; trying another EN/SC box; trying another\nidentical drive; trying several different SCSI cables.\n\nHas anybody seen this? More importantly, does anyone have a solution?\nThanks a lot. E.\n", "********* WANTED : Word Processing Typewriter ********\n\n A friend is looking for a wordproccing electronic typewriter, preferably\nwith 40 char. display and spelling correction.\n\nSend info to the addresses below: \n\nThanks,\n -Steve", "Hello All,\n\n\n Goucher College will soon be retiring a MicroVax II, world case,\n2 70MB Hard Drives, 16 port I/O, 2 MB (maybe 4MB) system memory.\n\n Any idea as to how much we can expect to get for this machine on\nthe open market??\n\n Please reply privately to:\n\n tim.marshall%goucher@wb3ffv.ampr.org\n\n Thanks in advance.....", "I recently bought an apparantly complete Expansion Chassis by Mountain\nComputer Inc. It consists of a box with 8 Apple ][+ compatible slots,\npowersupply brick, interface card and ribbon cable to attach it to the computer\nto be expanded. There was also included a small card with empty sockets on top\nand pins on the bottom that looks like it would plug into the ][+ motherboard\nsomewhere after pulling a chip. There's an empty socket also on the interface\ncard and a short 16-pin DIP jumper like the ones used with ][+ language cards.\n \nThis technological marvel came with no docs and I haven't a clue as how to hook\nthis thing up. If anyone has docs and/or users disk of any sort for this I\ncould really use copies of them or at least some help.\n \nI need to know:\n \no How to orient the ribbon cable between the card and the chassis.\no How to attach the short cable from the motherboard to the card\n and if the small card is used.\no The purposes of the various jumper-pins on the card (it has more\n of those than my CMS SCSI card!)\n ", "\nI am trying to put a 40MB drive from my LC into a case. It is a Conner\nCP3040A. I can't figure out which jumpers are the SCSI ID jumpers.\nIs anyone familiar with this drive?\n\nAt the end of the drive (oposite the 50 pin pibbon connector), there\nare eleven pins which look like this:\n\n\n o o o o o o 1\n o o o o o 2\n\n L5 CR12 C37\n\nwhere the \"o\" are pins, and the \"L5 CR12 C37\" represent some of the\nsilk screen notation near these pins.\n\nElsewhere on the board there are four jumper pads marked E1,E2,E3,E4\non the silk screen.\n\nDoes anyone know where the SCSI ID A0,A1,A2 pins are, and where the\ndrive activity light LED should be plugged into?\n\n\t\t-allan", "I've heard about Ottomenu which should be a good desktop\non Windows 3.0/3.1 . \nCan anybody tell me where I can get it ?\nIt should be on CICA in /pub/pc/win3/util but it is not.\n\nIt is also not an WUSTL,SIMTEL and a great number of other\nsites.\n\nJust post it or mail me.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\t\t\t\tAndreas Gloege\n\t\t\tKazmaierstr.48 (bei Klarmann)\n\t\t\t\t8000 Muenchen 2\n\t\t\t\t 089/508336\n\t\t email : gloege@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE", "Anyone have any expierience with PSI's comstation 5?\n\nPlease contact me if you had (or have a suggesiton for a Really Good 14.4\nmodem with 14.4 fax for the macintosh).\n\n--- Via UCI v1.35 (C-Net Amiga)\n\n\nDennis T. Cheung\nThe DTC(tm) Corporation of America\nAmerica Online: DTC\nInternet: DTC%MLinkNet@HotCity.Com", "I'm looking for a font that looks like pixels off of a monitor\n(not the lcd kind of font though)\ndoes anyone know where I can get one?\n", "I want to press a function key and have a text string appear in an\nXmText widget. When I put\n\n\t*XmText.Translations: #augment \\n\\\n\t\tF1: insert-string(HELLO)\n\nin my resource file, the translation doesn't happen. If I put\n\n\t*XmText.Translations: F1: insert-string(HELLO)\n\nin the file, I get the text string HELLO when F1 is pressed, but no other \nkeys work, which makes sense since the default translation mode is \"replace\". \n\n\tDo I have a syntax problem here, or something deeper?", " \n This is a 1950s idea. Supposedly, splicing in a frame of \"Buy\npopcorn\" upped popcorn sales in a movie theatre. Big flap at the time.\nCongress involved. Talk of making it illegal. General agreement by\nnetworks not to do it.\n\n A few years ago, some junior person at an advertising agency\nre-invented subliminal projection and one commercial went out on tape\nwith single-frame messages. It aired on a few stations, but a tech\nat one station, previewing the tape, noticed a flicker and looked at\nthe tape frame-by-frame to find the \"defect\". Big flap. FCC notified.\nCommercial pulled. Press reports. Embarassed ad agency. You could\nprobably find the press reports via Dialog or Nexis if you wanted.\n\n Now that everybody has VCRs, it's not likely that anybody could\nget away with this on TV.", "Hello,\n\nI was wondering if anyone knew of an interface to od ( octal dump ), I assume\nit would be called xod. Actually, any viewer for a core file will do.\n\nI looked at export ( @ mit ) in the index of /contrib, but didn't find anything \nrelevant.\n", "\nWhat it has to do with your original question is this: many times \nbeginning X users (heck, experienced X users too!) write small test\nprograms. Many times they forget to draw only in response to expose\nevents, and thus see unpreditable results whereby sometimes the application's\ngraphics show up, and sometimes they don't. We're just trying to\neliminate all the \"easy\" explanations for why you're not seeing your\ngraphics. \n\nThat being said, why don't you try copying different planes to your\nwindow other than 16 (== 1 << 4). Try 1, 1<<1, 1<<2, ..., 1<<7\nto see it you get any output. Since you're dipslaying only a single \nplane of your data, it's possible that all the pixel values in your\npixmap have the same value for that color plane.\n\n\tKen\n", "Where's an ftp site for Trumpet? (other than wuarchive, umich,..\nsomething off the beaten path??)", "Hello Everyone,\n\n I have a Casio TV-470 LCD Color Television for sale. It\nis in mint condition. Retail is $199 but I'm looking to\nget about 1/2 of that for it, tops. Highest bidder in \na week gets it, assuming the highest bidder is at least $60.\n\nTV comes with black case and uses 4 AA batteries. They also\nsell AC adaptor. It has external jack for phones and external\nantenna, etc. The picture is very good and it has electronic\ntuning so you don't have to screw with tuning a picture in, etc.\nI have the box and all documentation. This has seen less than\n3 hours use as I have all but sworn off TV.", "\nDepends on the nature of the \"rounding.\" X allows the user to do bit\narithmetic on pixel values, (i.e., XOR foreground and backgroun pixel\nvalues together to calculate a foreground color that when used with a\nfunction of GXxor fill change foreground to background and vice-versa).\nIf your rounding does not preserve these types of calculations then \nclients that use them will break.\n\n\tKen", "\nLook for edge inconsistencies. Consider two vertices, p and q, which\nare connected by at least one edge.\n\nIf (p,q) is an edge, then (q,p) should *not* appear. \n\nIf *both* (p,q) and (q,p) appear as edges, then the surface \"flips\" when\nyou travel across that edge. This is bad. \n\nAssuming (warning...warning...warning) that you have an otherwise\nacceptable surface - you can pick an edge, any edge, and traverse the\nsurface enforcing consistency with that edge. \n\n 0) pick an edge (p,q), and mark it as \"OK\"\n 1) for each face, F, containing this edge (if more than 2, oops)\n make sure that all edges in F are consistent (i.e., the Face\n should be [(p,q),(q,r),(r,s),(s,t),(t,p)]). Flip those which\n are wrong. Mark all of the edges in F as \"OK\",\n and add them to a queue (check for duplicates, and especially\n inconsistencies - don't let the queue have both (p,q) and (q,p)). \n 2) remove an edge from the queue, and go to 1).\n\nIf a *marked* edge is discovered to be inconsistent, then you lose.\n\nIf step 1) finds more than one face sharing a particular edge, then you\nlose. \n \nOtherwise, when done, all of the edges will be consistent. Which means\nthat all of the surface normals will either point IN or OUT. Deciding\nwhich way is OUT is left as an exercise...\n\n\n", "\n\tVery possibly, but if it's still going to be backwards compatible\nwith the ISA bus, it's going to be the same tripe that the current EISA\nimplementation really is.\n\n\tFrom what I've seen, the PCI bus will just be a new 32bit 33MHz\nintelligent bus (ie, bus controller takes care of interrupts and the like,\nnot jumpers...) Hopefully it'll get somewhere up there with the AMIGA \nZorro III bus....\n\n\tVL Bus is a bit too much of a hack for my liking...", "A friend of mine needs spec for a used hard drive he just got:\nIt is a Western Digital, IDE, 340 meg\nwith 1010 cylinders and 12 heads. We believe the model number is\nwd2340A, but we can't be sure. It is a 12 ms, 3.5\" model.\n\nAny info would be appreciated, either from somone who knows, or maybe\nwestern digitals phone number", "I'd appreciate any feedback on capture/playback tools for use with X clients.\n\nI have pulled XTM from public domain but it appears to be set up to test\nX servers not X clients. \n\nAny comparisons/comments on regression testing tools would be great -\nparticularly XTM, XRunner, Autotester, and SRI's CAPBAK, SMARTS and EXDIFF.", "\n\nThis is vague, so I am posting it in case anyone else knows more.\n\nI recall reading of a phonograph which used mechanical amplification.\nCompressed air was squirted out of a valve which was controlled by the\npickup. The result was noisy and distinctly lo-fi, but much louder\nthan a conventional phonograph. It tended to wear the disks out\npretty quickly though.\n\nPaul.", "You might want to get a disposible flash camera, shoot the roll of film,\nthen take it apart (they're snapped together). We used a bunch of them\nat my wedding, but instead of sending the whole camera in, I just took\nthe film out (it's a standard 35mm canister), and kept the batteries\n(they use one AA battery). Sorry, I didn't keep any of the flash electronics.", "\nWhy so up tight? FOr that matter, TIFF6 is out now, so why not gripe\nabout its problems? Also, if its so important to you, volunteer to\nhelp define or critique the spec.\n\nFinally, a little numerology: 42 is 24 backwards, and TIFF is a 24 bit\nimage format...\n\nChris", ": Hi! \n: \tI will change my 286 soon, and i read something about the ibm ps\n: value-point... anyone have one? the video card is really a 24 bit card?\n: how much cost in U.S.?\n: \tAnd the last question... can the ps value point 486 sx 25mhz\n: upgrade to a 486 dx2 66mhz???\n: \n: \tThank you veeery much in advance!\n: \n: \tAlejandro Cifuentes H.\n: \tacifuent@isluga.puc.cl\n\nThese questions can be answered by any dealer of IBM Value Points, but, I will\nprovide some unsolicited advice -- the most amusing kind of advice.\n\nToday (Tueday 4-6-93) IBM is supposed to officially announce the introduction\nof the VESA Local Bus Value Point systems. These systems still have on-board\nvideo and disk which are far better than the prior Value Point systems, and\nyou get VESA Local Bus for (future?) upgrades. We are going to buy three of\nthem with 17\" monitors (also a newly available), and one of the three will\nimmediately be upgraded to UltraStor 34F caching SCSI disk controller and\neither the ATI GUP or the Viper graphics board.\n\nDo not buy a 486SX sytem.\n\nMy personal philosophy on upgrade policy is that it is not loss-free. When\nyou earn money you pay taxes, when you spend money you pay taxes. (i.e. they\nget you coming and going). Translated this means take infrequent but large\nsteps. You are far better off short term AND long term if you avoid the SX\nmodels and go straight to the DX or DX-2 models.", "I'm trying to get a hold of an IBM Quietwriter II printer driver for\nWindows 3.1. If such a beast exists, can someone suggest how I get\nit? Please mail me a reply directly as I don't normally read this\ngroup. Many thanks.", "I used HP DeskJet with Orange Micros Grappler LS on System6.0.5.\n\nBut now I update system 6.0.5 to System7 with Kanji-Talk 7.1,\nthen I can not print by my DeskJet.\n\nIs the Grappler LS old ?\nCan I use DeskJet on System7 ?\n\nPlease tell me how to use DeskJet on System7.\n\nThank you\n", "Appsoft Image is available for NeXTStep. It is a image processing program\nsimilar to Adobe Photoshop. It is reviewed in the April '93 issue of\nPublish! Magazine.\n", "Hi,\n\tI need xrn and xarchie for the HP's (9000/730, version 8 OS), either in\nthe source form or, (preferably) in executable form. Please suggest\nwhere I can find this, \n\tSend e-mail to: rao@cse.uta.edu\nThanks in advance,\nRao.", "\nJoystick A:\n1 +5 VDC\n2 Button 1\n3 X Axis\n4 Ground\n5 Ground\n6 Y Axis\n7 Button 2\n8 + 5 VDC\nJoystick B:\n9 +5 VDC\n10 Button 1\n11 X Axis\n12 Ground\n13 Y axis\n14 Button 2\n15 +5 VDC\n\n---\n . SLMR 2.1 . Soft judges make hardened criminals.\n ", "Hi:\n\nI need some advice (opinions?) regarding which PC would best suit my needs!\nI want to use this (proposed) beast for basically four things: \n\n -\tEditing documents using WordPerfect 5.1 (under dos)\n\n -\tCreating graphs/analyzing data using Sigmaplot V5.0 (under dos)\n\n -\tEditing/playing with images using Aldus PhotoStyler, running under \n\tWindows 3.1 - these images can be large, say 2k x 2k, 24bits/pixel\n\n -\tUsing the PC as an Xterminal, running DesqView/X 1.1 and Sun PC-NFS, \n\ttalking to our network of Sparcstation's - this is where a lot of\n\tthe images/data come from, and is the most demanding of these tasks.\n\nI've read, read, read PC magazines, performed benchmarks, read this newsgroup,\nand decided that a \"nice\" system (price/performance) would be:\n\n\t486DX-50 256k cache, ISA, VLB, 16meg ram\n\tATI Graphics Ultra Pro, 2 meg ram, local bus\n\t15\" monitor, 1280x1024 NI\n\t3Com Etherlink III 16bit\n\tMaxtor 240MB IDE hard drive\n\nHowever, the parts don't fit! Our local retailer apparently put one of these\ntogether, only to discover that the ATI card wouldn't run at 50MHz - surprise\nsurprise. Actually, after reading this group, I'm surprised that they even\nhave a 50MHz local bus running...\n\nI have a choice now between basically the above system but with a\n486DX2-66 with ISA and VLB, or, a 486DX-50 with EISA and no VLB (and thus\nthe non-local bus version of the ATI card). Which is better, keeping in mind\nthat I'm primarily interested in the last two tasks? \n\nAny help would be greatly appreciated! (I need to decide quickly, so any \nspeedy help would be appreciated even more!!)\n\n\n\nBTW: We have a system now to perform these tasks, it has the following \nconfiguration:\n\n\t486DX-33 64k cache, ISA, 8 meg ram\n\tATI Graphics Ultra+, 2 meg ram\n\t14\" monitor, 1024x768 NI\n\tSMC Ethercard 8 bit\n\tMaxtor 120MB IDE hard drive\n\nWe're quite happy with the ATI card - very fast, ONCE the data gets to it!!\n~Slow~ repainting images under PhotoStyler that have moved off screen, or\nbeen uncovered! \n\nThere doesn't seem to be enough raw cpu when running DesqView/X! Its sluggish\nrunning the local window manager. Also, many functions under PhotoStyler take\na long time (even when the images fit entirely in ram).\n\nThere's not enough memory in the system - DesqView/X and a 1 meg SmartDrive\ndon't leave much room for other apps. Photostyler will page to disk with\nmedium size images.\n\nI have performed a number of benchmarks on the ethernet transfer rates. This\nmachine sustains only 120k/sec over ethernet while our Sparcs sustain 600k/sec \non the same network. Going to the 16 bit version of the SMC card increases\ntransfer rates to 160k/sec - still very slow (especially when moving large \nimages). Is there such a thing as a local-bus ethernet card coming?? Will it\nmake a difference? I'm hoping so, and leaning towards the 486DX2-66 choice \n(above), for that reason.\n\nAlso, are there DX2-100's on the horizon? What about DX3-99's? DX3-150's ???!\n\nAny information is greatly appreciated.\n", "I use a Nanao 20\" Multisync and switch between a Windows 1024x768 and\na Sparc 1+ display. Works quite well at these resolutions.\n\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------\nMichael C. Busby | Unix System Support\nSystem Engineer, Sr. | Design Environment/Automation\nCompaq Computer Corporation | Internet: mcb@compaq.com \nP.O. Box 692000 m/s 050701 | Uunet: uunet!cpqhou!michaelb \nHouston, Texas, USA 77269-2000 | Phone: 713-374-5638 ", "Looks like someone left their terminal unattended.\n+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+\n\n /~~~~~~~\\\n\\_____ |\n | | TTTTTT EEEEE VV VV EEEEE |\n | | TT EE VV VV EE |\n /---/ | TT EEEE VV VV EEEE | Steve Liu |", "Has anyone else gotten a system error when trying to print from Mathematica 2.1\nto the HP Deskwriter. I'm using a PB170 with:\t8 megs ram\n\t\t\t\t\t\tSys 7.0.1 + Tuneup\n\t\t\t\t\t\tHP Print Drivers etc....\n\nIt works find on an Imagewriter I. I'd like to get as much information as\npossible before I send a bug report to Wolfram.\n\nThanks.", "Can somebody help me out of this.....\n\nI just installed the Version 104 of McAFree anti-virus program and when i\ntried to scan the entire hard disk, i got the message of \"Sorry, I can't open\nxxxx\" for a couple of files, including the WScan104.exe. This didn't happen \nbefore (in previous version) nor appear on my friend's machine. ", "\nI had posted that it came from a survey of registered users, I \ndouble-checked with a friendly neighborhood marketing type and\nfound there were actually two surveys. One of randomly selected\nresellers, one of randomly selected users from the 6 upgrade \nregistered user database. Both surveys showed a 93% positive\nrating.\n\n-jen\n\n-- ", "After setting up a very large (>4 pages) table in Word for Windows\nI asked word to print it to my HP laserjet II -- worked fine at first.\nAfter much editing of the table contents (but not structure) output\nrequests now kick the LJ into manual feed mode for the document\ncontaining the table. Other documents without tables print correctly.\n\nWhere should I look and what should I change to get the document with\nthe long table to use the paper drawer rather than kick into manual\nfeed mode? [I believe I've tried all the obvious printer manager changes\nas well as replacing the hppcl.[lp]00 files with archived versions.]\n\nThanks for any and all help.\n\nPeter", "-------------------------------------------------------------------------\nNetters!\n\nI have seen some postings on PC/IP from MIT. This package out of 1986(?)\nshould be a full TCP/IP fro the DOS-machines. Is there anyone out there\nthat's using it?\n\nI want to connect a DOS-machine to my OS/2 machine... Tell me what the\nDOS-machine should run (sample CONFIG and AUTOEXEC would be great) and\nwhere I can find a nfs client. I understand that a telnet and a ftp\nclient are part of the package.\n\nI've got the Crynwr package drivers, but that's it! Please point me to\na good source of information if you cannot help me yourself...", ": >So, by going mailorder through Gateway, I save ~13%. Plus, I get\n: >technical support over the phone, free software package.\n: >\n: Have fun trying to get hold of technical support over the phone. At least\n: locally you can walk right up to the dealer and tell him what is wrong, and\n: he has to fix it.\n\nPhone support is quick and competent from many mail order firms, but not so\nquick and not so competent from others (Gateway included). But my experience\nwith computer retailers (which is significant) has lead to the conclusion that\nsales personnel and retail-technical personnel are forbidden to actually learn\nabout the products they sell. Talk about incompetent! O.K., so a few percent\nof their answers are correct, but those salesmen don't even realize how stupid\nthey are. ... ....... O.K. ...I'll settle down now.... .... let me\ncatch my breath..... ..\n\nFact: retail stores never provide a better value in terms of price per product.\n\nRetail outlets are desirable, however, to those people who aren't interested\nin learning about computers enough to make their own decisions. This is fine;\nfor example most of my education about carpeting, wall paper, lawn mowers,\nmicrowave ovens, etc. has come from sales personnel. I assume I must be an\nidiot. But I don't care about those things. I do, however, care about my\ncomputer - i.e. I demand features and performance, and I'll be damned if I'll\npay some high-school drop out commission on an over-rated, over-priced system\nand in the process be subjected to his distorted B.S.\n\nG.L.", "\n\nMaybe in the 60's, but not now. Steel is a dead industry in Pgh. \n\nNo, a giveaway night in the 90's for Pgh would be \"Baboon Liver Night\"\nsponored by The Pittsburgh Zoo...", "\n: I guess this changes my opinion of them and I thought I would warn\n: any prospective customers for the EN/SC PB.\n\nFWIW, I work for FOCUS Enhancements, and a lot of the people we sell our\nEtherLAN SC/SC-T (our SCSI Ethernet interface) are disgruntled EN/SC\nusers.\n\n: I also now need to know if anyone has been successful with the\n: comparable product from Dayna or Focus. I really don't want to use up\n: that NuBus slot.\n\n*Sigh*. I wish I had better news. The FOCUS EtherLAN SC is currently\nincompatible with the Duos. This may change in the future. We do have\nApple Register Compatible cards that are 100% compatible with the\nDuoDocks, though.\n\nSend questions to focus@applelink.apple.com.", "I have a very large (3x5 feet) file in Macintosh Canvas v2.something\nwhich I need to import into AutoCad 12 in the least disk-space intensive\nway possible. (i.e. EPS is a big problem, since it took 1.3 MEG to encode\none page of the document) The file is entirely lines and words. I have\naccess to networked Macs & PC's, and ftp. Can anyone suggest how this might\nbe accomplished? Email replies, if you would, I don't read this group much.\nThanks in advance.", "[Discussion on Piracy Deleted]\nMy own practice with new software :\n\nmake a copy of the original floppies to a second set of floppies.\n\ninstall to hard drive from second set of floppies.\n\nput originals in a box in room number one.\n\nput copies in box in room number two.\n\n1) Accidents DO happen to original floppies.\n2) Accidents CAN happen to the installation floppy.\n3) Sometimes software goes out on floppies that are JUST marginally good. Or\n gets too close to a magnet in shipping or storage.\n\nI've had experience with SOMETHING like the last. I purchased a compiler from\na reputable vendor. THe debugger in the package just would NOT install to the\nhard drive. NO WAY. Repeated floppy-to-floppy copies FINALLY got a clean read\nof the disk. I DON'T recall if I used \"diskcopy\", \"copy/b\", or \"xcopy\".\n\nI made a second copy of the marginal floppy and installed from that. No problenms ( except with my typing :-) ) since.\n\nI regard backup floppies as CHEAP insurance.\n\nJust my side of the question...", "I have just finished building X11R5 on a 386 running Interactive Unix (SysVR3)\nand I am having a problem with xterm. On any font larger that 5x7 it messes up\ncharacters that are types, the cursor seems to be \"too\" large, or splits into\na 1/2 reverse video, 1/2 outline block (which changes when the pointer is moved\ninto the window). I am trying to use monospaced fonts (not -p- fonts). Is\nthere any way of changing the appearence of the block cursor is an Xterm?\n\n Thanks\n \n\n--", "\nThis can be caused by two one of two things. The first and easiest to fix is\ninterference from something around the monitor, such as another monitor or\nother electrical device. Try moving the system to another location to fix\nthat problem.\n\nSecond, because of the scan rate of the monitor, it tends to synchronize with\nroom lights and can cause the interference you are seeing. Try turning off\nall lights in the room(s) around the system and see if that helps. If not,\ntry moving the system somewhere else.\n\nA third solution would be to get a 14\" Apple Color Display - It should not\nhave the same problem the 12\" Color is more suceptible to.\n\nYou can try calling Apple's new support number (in the U.S.) at 1-800-SOS-APPLE.\nThis number is for ANYONE who has questions regarding Macintosh setup and\ncompatibility and just went into effect for this extended support on Monday,\nApril 5, 1993.\n\nGood luck -", "\nSometimes. It depends on your monitor and your timing. If you don't\nhave enough vertical front porch and you use XOR composite sync you can\nget even/odd tearing at the top of the screen, which is very sensitive\nto the HHOLD control. It looks like what you would expect if you\nscanned the even fields (say) onto a sheet of mylar and had pinched the\nupper left corner with your fingers and started to tear it off the tube. \nWith proper composite sync (equalizing pulses) the interlace is rock\nsolid. \n", "[[ I posted this a few weeks back, but all I got back was an error\n message \"pnews: /dev/null: Permission denied\". Yep, /dev/null\n had a mode of 600. (Arrghhh!!) ]]\n\nWith renewed interest in \"setting the DISPLAY variable\", etc.. I\nthought I would post my contribution.\n\nThis Perl script is my solution. It trys to be intelligent about\nwhat it's doing so that you should be able to type \"rx host.domain.etc\",\nand get a xterm running on \"host.domain.etc\", with all the difficult\nstuff taken care of.\n\nIn theory, this program can do *everything* you ever wanted to do\nwhen you wanted to run a remote command in the background - it\ndoesn't even need to be an X program. Try a \"rx big-machine make\"\nfor instance, for a backgrounded make on the remote \"big-machine\".\n\nFor more details and a full list of features read the README file,\nabout 20 lines below... All comments welcome.\n\nDuncan.\n\n\n\n#! /bin/sh\n# This is a shell archive. Remove anything before this line, then unpack\n# it by saving it into a file and typing \"sh file\". To overwrite existing\n# files, type \"sh file -c\". You can also feed this as standard input via\n# unshar, or by typing \"sh 'README' <<'END_OF_FILE'\nX\nX Glasgow RX - remote execution of X programs. Version 3.1.7\nX\nXCopyright 1992 Duncan Sinclair \nX\nXTrivial to install, but there's an Imakefile to make it even more trivial.\nX\nXThe perl script needs some customisation before it is installed, just\nXedit the \"rx.pl\" file, and read the comments. Once you've done\nXthis you can \"xmkmf\", then \"make install install.man\".\nX\nXFEATURES:\nX\nX*) Does the right thing for off-site remote execution. Including\nX setting up $DISPLAY to include domain names, and passing\nX magic cookies, or doing the \"xhost\" stuff.\nX\nX*) Allow different remote user name. (rx -l user host ...)\nX\nX*) Smart quoting of arguments - makes passing wild-cards easy.\nX\nX*) Custom command execution - link it to \"remacs\" to get a remote\nX emacs command.\nX\nX*) Automatic xterm options - names the xterm according to hostname,\nX and turns on \"login shell\".\nX\nX*) Default command is xterm.\nX\nX*) Propagates X-ish env. variables to remote session - user may\nX extend the list of variables to pass.\nX\nX*) Special handling for bourne shell users.\nX\nX*) Tries to do remote execution from same directory as local.\nX That is, it propagates $PWD, in an intelligent manner.\nX\nX*) Logs errors in a file.\nX\nX*) Overall Intelligence (TM) - makes reasoned decisions about what\nX you are trying to do, and tries to \"do the right thing\".\nX\nX*) Written in Perl, for portability and hackability.\nX\nXFor more info, read the man page or the source.\nX\nEND_OF_FILE\nif test 1442 -ne `wc -c <'README'`; then\n echo shar: \\\"'README'\\\" unpacked with wrong size!\nfi\n# end of 'README'\nfi\nif test -f 'Imakefile' -a \"${1}\" != \"-c\" ; then \n echo shar: Will not clobber existing file \\\"'Imakefile'\\\"\nelse\necho shar: Extracting \\\"'Imakefile'\\\" \\(370 characters\\)\nsed \"s/^X//\" >'Imakefile' <<'END_OF_FILE'\nX# Glasgow RX Imakefile.\nX\nX PROGRAMS = rx\nX\nXall:: $(PROGRAMS)\nX\nXinstall:: safe\nX\nXInstallNamedProg(rx.pl,rx,$(BINDIR))\nXInstallManPage(rx,$(MANDIR))\nX\nXinstall::\nX\t$(RM) $(BINDIR)/rxterm\nX\t$(LN) $(BINDIR)/rx $(BINDIR)/rxterm\nX\nXsafe:\nX\t@grep -s 'debug = 0' rx.pl || false\nX\nXshar: safe\nX\tmakekit -m -p\nX\t@-perl -pi -e \"s/sinclair@dcs.gla.ac.uk/sinclair@dcs.gla.ac.uk/;\" Part*\nX\nEND_OF_FILE\nif test 370 -ne `wc -c <'Imakefile'`; then\n echo shar: \\\"'Imakefile'\\\" unpacked with wrong size!\nfi\n# end of 'Imakefile'\nfi\nif test -f 'MANIFEST' -a \"${1}\" != \"-c\" ; then \n echo shar: Will not clobber existing file \\\"'MANIFEST'\\\"\nelse\necho shar: Extracting \\\"'MANIFEST'\\\" \\(313 characters\\)\nsed \"s/^X//\" >'MANIFEST' <<'END_OF_FILE'\nX File Name\t\tArchive #\tDescription\nX-----------------------------------------------------------\nX README 1\tRead me first\nX Imakefile 1\t\nX MANIFEST 1\tThis shipping list\nX Makefile 1\t\nX rx.man 1\t\nX rx.pl 1\t\nEND_OF_FILE\nif test 313 -ne `wc -c <'MANIFEST'`; then\n echo shar: \\\"'MANIFEST'\\\" unpacked with wrong size!\nfi\n# end of 'MANIFEST'\nfi\nif test -f 'Makefile' -a \"${1}\" != \"-c\" ; then \n echo shar: Will not clobber existing file \\\"'Makefile'\\\"\nelse\necho shar: Extracting \\\"'Makefile'\\\" \\(10172 characters\\)\nsed \"s/^X//\" >'Makefile' <<'END_OF_FILE'\nX# Makefile generated by imake - do not edit!\nX# $XConsortium: imake.c,v 1.65 91/07/25 17:50:17 rws Exp $\nX#\nX# The cpp used on this machine replaces all newlines and multiple tabs and\nX# spaces in a macro expansion with a single space. Imake tries to compensate\nX# for this, but is not always successful.\nX#\nX\nX# -------------------------------------------------------------------------\nX# Makefile generated from \"Imake.tmpl\" and \nX# $XConsortium: Imake.tmpl,v 1.139 91/09/16 08:52:48 rws Exp $\nX#\nX# Platform-specific parameters may be set in the appropriate .cf\nX# configuration files. Site-specific parameters should be set in the file\nX# site.def. Full rebuilds are recommended if any parameters are changed.\nX#\nX# If your C preprocessor does not define any unique symbols, you will need\nX# to set BOOTSTRAPCFLAGS when rebuilding imake (usually when doing\nX# \"make World\" the first time).\nX#\nX\nX# -------------------------------------------------------------------------\nX# site-specific configuration parameters that need to come before\nX# the platform-specific parameters - edit site.def to change\nX\nX# site: $XConsortium: site.def,v 1.2 91/07/30 20:26:44 rws Exp $\nX\nX# -------------------------------------------------------------------------\nX# platform-specific configuration parameters - edit sun.cf to change\nX\nX# platform: $XConsortium: sun.cf,v 1.72.1.1 92/03/18 13:13:37 rws Exp $\nX\nX# operating system: SunOS 4.1.3\nX\nX# $XConsortium: sunLib.rules,v 1.7 91/12/20 11:19:47 rws Exp $\nX\nX# -------------------------------------------------------------------------\nX# site-specific configuration parameters that go after\nX# the platform-specific parameters - edit site.def to change\nX\nX# site: $XConsortium: site.def,v 1.2 91/07/30 20:26:44 rws Exp $\nX\nX SHELL = /bin/sh\nX\nX TOP = .\nX CURRENT_DIR = .\nX\nX AR = ar cq\nX BOOTSTRAPCFLAGS =\nX CC = gcc -fpcc-struct-return\nX AS = as\nX\nX COMPRESS = compress\nX CPP = /lib/cpp $(STD_CPP_DEFINES)\nX PREPROCESSCMD = gcc -fpcc-struct-return -E $(STD_CPP_DEFINES)\nX INSTALL = install\nX LD = ld\nX LINT = lint\nX LINTLIBFLAG = -C\nX LINTOPTS = -axz\nX LN = ln -s\nX MAKE = make\nX MV = mv\nX CP = cp\nX\nX RANLIB = ranlib\nX RANLIBINSTFLAGS =\nX\nX RM = rm -f\nX TROFF = psroff\nX MSMACROS = -ms\nX TBL = tbl\nX EQN = eqn\nX STD_INCLUDES =\nX STD_CPP_DEFINES =\nX STD_DEFINES =\nX EXTRA_LOAD_FLAGS =\nX EXTRA_LIBRARIES =\nX TAGS = ctags\nX\nX SHAREDCODEDEF = -DSHAREDCODE\nX SHLIBDEF = -DSUNSHLIB\nX\nX PROTO_DEFINES =\nX\nX INSTPGMFLAGS =\nX\nX INSTBINFLAGS = -m 0755\nX INSTUIDFLAGS = -m 4755\nX INSTLIBFLAGS = -m 0644\nX INSTINCFLAGS = -m 0444\nX INSTMANFLAGS = -m 0444\nX INSTDATFLAGS = -m 0444\nX INSTKMEMFLAGS = -g kmem -m 2755\nX\nX PROJECTROOT = /usr/X11\nX\nX TOP_INCLUDES = -I$(INCROOT)\nX\nX CDEBUGFLAGS = -O2\nX CCOPTIONS =\nX\nX ALLINCLUDES = $(INCLUDES) $(EXTRA_INCLUDES) $(TOP_INCLUDES) $(STD_INCLUDES)\nX ALLDEFINES = $(ALLINCLUDES) $(STD_DEFINES) $(EXTRA_DEFINES) $(PROTO_DEFINES) $(DEFINES)\nX CFLAGS = $(CDEBUGFLAGS) $(CCOPTIONS) $(ALLDEFINES)\nX LINTFLAGS = $(LINTOPTS) -DLINT $(ALLDEFINES)\nX\nX LDLIBS = $(SYS_LIBRARIES) $(EXTRA_LIBRARIES)\nX\nX LDOPTIONS = $(CDEBUGFLAGS) $(CCOPTIONS) $(LOCAL_LDFLAGS) -L$(USRLIBDIR)\nX\nX LDCOMBINEFLAGS = -X -r\nX DEPENDFLAGS =\nX\nX MACROFILE = sun.cf\nX RM_CMD = $(RM) *.CKP *.ln *.BAK *.bak *.o core errs ,* *~ *.a .emacs_* tags TAGS make.log MakeOut\nX\nX IMAKE_DEFINES =\nX\nX IRULESRC = $(CONFIGDIR)\nX IMAKE_CMD = $(IMAKE) -DUseInstalled -I$(IRULESRC) $(IMAKE_DEFINES)\nX\nX ICONFIGFILES = $(IRULESRC)/Imake.tmpl $(IRULESRC)/Imake.rules \\\nX\t\t\t$(IRULESRC)/Project.tmpl $(IRULESRC)/site.def \\\nX\t\t\t$(IRULESRC)/$(MACROFILE) $(EXTRA_ICONFIGFILES)\nX\nX# -------------------------------------------------------------------------\nX# X Window System Build Parameters\nX# $XConsortium: Project.tmpl,v 1.138.1.1 92/11/11 09:49:19 rws Exp $\nX\nX# -------------------------------------------------------------------------\nX# X Window System make variables; this need to be coordinated with rules\nX\nX PATHSEP = /\nX USRLIBDIR = /usr/X11/lib\nX BINDIR = /usr/X11/local/bin\nX INCROOT = /usr/X11/include\nX BUILDINCROOT = $(TOP)\nX BUILDINCDIR = $(BUILDINCROOT)/X11\nX BUILDINCTOP = ..\nX INCDIR = $(INCROOT)/X11\nX ADMDIR = /usr/adm\nX LIBDIR = $(USRLIBDIR)/X11\nX CONFIGDIR = $(LIBDIR)/config\nX LINTLIBDIR = $(USRLIBDIR)/lint\nX\nX FONTDIR = $(LIBDIR)/fonts\nX XINITDIR = $(LIBDIR)/xinit\nX XDMDIR = $(LIBDIR)/xdm\nX TWMDIR = $(LIBDIR)/twm\nX MANPATH = /usr/X11/man\nX MANSOURCEPATH = $(MANPATH)/man\nX MANSUFFIX = n\nX LIBMANSUFFIX = 3\nX MANDIR = $(MANSOURCEPATH)$(MANSUFFIX)\nX LIBMANDIR = $(MANSOURCEPATH)$(LIBMANSUFFIX)\nX NLSDIR = $(LIBDIR)/nls\nX PEXAPIDIR = $(LIBDIR)/PEX\nX XAPPLOADDIR = $(LIBDIR)/app-defaults\nX FONTCFLAGS = -t\nX\nX INSTAPPFLAGS = $(INSTDATFLAGS)\nX\nX IMAKE = imake\nX DEPEND = makedepend\nX RGB = rgb\nX\nX FONTC = bdftopcf\nX\nX MKFONTDIR = mkfontdir\nX MKDIRHIER = /bin/sh $(BINDIR)/mkdirhier\nX\nX CONFIGSRC = $(TOP)/config\nX DOCUTILSRC = $(TOP)/doc/util\nX CLIENTSRC = $(TOP)/clients\nX DEMOSRC = $(TOP)/demos\nX LIBSRC = $(TOP)/lib\nX FONTSRC = $(TOP)/fonts\nX INCLUDESRC = $(TOP)/X11\nX SERVERSRC = $(TOP)/server\nX UTILSRC = $(TOP)/util\nX SCRIPTSRC = $(UTILSRC)/scripts\nX EXAMPLESRC = $(TOP)/examples\nX CONTRIBSRC = $(TOP)/../contrib\nX DOCSRC = $(TOP)/doc\nX RGBSRC = $(TOP)/rgb\nX DEPENDSRC = $(UTILSRC)/makedepend\nX IMAKESRC = $(CONFIGSRC)\nX XAUTHSRC = $(LIBSRC)/Xau\nX XLIBSRC = $(LIBSRC)/X\nX XMUSRC = $(LIBSRC)/Xmu\nX TOOLKITSRC = $(LIBSRC)/Xt\nX AWIDGETSRC = $(LIBSRC)/Xaw\nX OLDXLIBSRC = $(LIBSRC)/oldX\nX XDMCPLIBSRC = $(LIBSRC)/Xdmcp\nX BDFTOSNFSRC = $(FONTSRC)/bdftosnf\nX BDFTOSNFSRC = $(FONTSRC)/clients/bdftosnf\nX BDFTOPCFSRC = $(FONTSRC)/clients/bdftopcf\nX MKFONTDIRSRC = $(FONTSRC)/clients/mkfontdir\nX FSLIBSRC = $(FONTSRC)/lib/fs\nX FONTSERVERSRC = $(FONTSRC)/server\nX EXTENSIONSRC = $(TOP)/extensions\nX XILIBSRC = $(EXTENSIONSRC)/lib/xinput\nX PEXLIBSRC = $(EXTENSIONSRC)/lib/PEXlib\nX PHIGSLIBSRC = $(EXTENSIONSRC)/lib/PEX\nX\nX# $XConsortium: sunLib.tmpl,v 1.14.1.2 92/11/11 09:55:02 rws Exp $\nX\nXSHLIBLDFLAGS = -assert pure-text\nXPICFLAGS = -fpic\nX\nX DEPEXTENSIONLIB =\nX EXTENSIONLIB = -lXext\nX\nX DEPXLIB = $(DEPEXTENSIONLIB)\nX XLIB = $(EXTENSIONLIB) -lX11\nX\nX DEPXMULIB = $(USRLIBDIR)/libXmu.sa.$(SOXMUREV)\nX XMULIBONLY = -lXmu\nX XMULIB = -lXmu\nX\nX DEPOLDXLIB =\nX OLDXLIB = -loldX\nX\nX DEPXTOOLLIB = $(USRLIBDIR)/libXt.sa.$(SOXTREV)\nX XTOOLLIB = -lXt\nX\nX DEPXAWLIB = $(USRLIBDIR)/libXaw.sa.$(SOXAWREV)\nX XAWLIB = -lXaw\nX\nX DEPXILIB =\nX XILIB = -lXi\nX\nX DEPPEXLIB =\nX PEXLIB = -lPEX5\nX\nX SOXLIBREV = 4.10\nX SOXTREV = 4.10\nX SOXAWREV = 5.0\nX SOOLDXREV = 4.10\nX SOXMUREV = 4.10\nX SOXEXTREV = 4.10\nX SOXINPUTREV = 4.10\nX SOPEXREV = 1.0\nX\nX DEPXAUTHLIB = $(USRLIBDIR)/libXau.a\nX XAUTHLIB = -lXau\nX DEPXDMCPLIB = $(USRLIBDIR)/libXdmcp.a\nX XDMCPLIB = -lXdmcp\nX\nX DEPPHIGSLIB = $(USRLIBDIR)/libphigs.a\nX PHIGSLIB = -lphigs\nX\nX DEPXBSDLIB = $(USRLIBDIR)/libXbsd.a\nX XBSDLIB = -lXbsd\nX\nX LINTEXTENSIONLIB = $(LINTLIBDIR)/llib-lXext.ln\nX LINTXLIB = $(LINTLIBDIR)/llib-lX11.ln\nX LINTXMU = $(LINTLIBDIR)/llib-lXmu.ln\nX LINTXTOOL = $(LINTLIBDIR)/llib-lXt.ln\nX LINTXAW = $(LINTLIBDIR)/llib-lXaw.ln\nX LINTXI = $(LINTLIBDIR)/llib-lXi.ln\nX LINTPEX = $(LINTLIBDIR)/llib-lPEX5.ln\nX LINTPHIGS = $(LINTLIBDIR)/llib-lphigs.ln\nX\nX DEPLIBS = $(DEPXAWLIB) $(DEPXMULIB) $(DEPXTOOLLIB) $(DEPXLIB)\nX\nX DEPLIBS1 = $(DEPLIBS)\nX DEPLIBS2 = $(DEPLIBS)\nX DEPLIBS3 = $(DEPLIBS)\nX\nX# -------------------------------------------------------------------------\nX# Imake rules for building libraries, programs, scripts, and data files\nX# rules: $XConsortium: Imake.rules,v 1.123 91/09/16 20:12:16 rws Exp $\nX\nX# -------------------------------------------------------------------------\nX# start of Imakefile\nX\nX# Glasgow RX Imakefile.\nX\nX PROGRAMS = rx\nX\nXall:: $(PROGRAMS)\nX\nXinstall:: safe\nX\nXinstall:: rx.pl\nX\t@if [ -d $(DESTDIR)$(BINDIR) ]; then set +x; \\\nX\telse (set -x; $(MKDIRHIER) $(DESTDIR)$(BINDIR)); fi\nX\t$(INSTALL) -c $(INSTBINFLAGS) rx.pl $(DESTDIR)$(BINDIR)/rx\nX\nXinstall.man:: rx.man\nX\t@if [ -d $(DESTDIR)$(MANDIR) ]; then set +x; \\\nX\telse (set -x; $(MKDIRHIER) $(DESTDIR)$(MANDIR)); fi\nX\t$(INSTALL) -c $(INSTMANFLAGS) rx.man $(DESTDIR)$(MANDIR)/rx.$(MANSUFFIX)\nX\nXinstall::\nX\t$(RM) $(BINDIR)/rxterm\nX\t$(LN) $(BINDIR)/rx $(BINDIR)/rxterm\nX\nXsafe:\nX\t@grep -s 'debug = 0' rx.pl || false\nX\nXshar: safe\nX\tmakekit -m -p\nX\t@-perl -pi -e \"s/sinclair@dcs.gla.ac.uk/sinclair@dcs.gla.ac.uk/;\" Part*\nX\nX# -------------------------------------------------------------------------\nX# common rules for all Makefiles - do not edit\nX\nXemptyrule::\nX\nXclean::\nX\t$(RM_CMD) \"#\"*\nX\nXMakefile::\nX\t-@if [ -f Makefile ]; then set -x; \\\nX\t$(RM) Makefile.bak; $(MV) Makefile Makefile.bak; \\\nX\telse exit 0; fi\nX\t$(IMAKE_CMD) -DTOPDIR=$(TOP) -DCURDIR=$(CURRENT_DIR)\nX\nXtags::\nX\t$(TAGS) -w *.[ch]\nX\t$(TAGS) -xw *.[ch] > TAGS\nX\nXsaber:\nX\t# load $(ALLDEFINES) $(SRCS)\nX\nXosaber:\nX\t# load $(ALLDEFINES) $(OBJS)\nX\nX# -------------------------------------------------------------------------\nX# empty rules for directories that do not have SUBDIRS - do not edit\nX\nXinstall::\nX\t@echo \"install in $(CURRENT_DIR) done\"\nX\nXinstall.man::\nX\t@echo \"install.man in $(CURRENT_DIR) done\"\nX\nXMakefiles::\nX\nXincludes::\nX\nX# -------------------------------------------------------------------------\nX# dependencies generated by makedepend\nX\nEND_OF_FILE\nif test 10172 -ne `wc -c <'Makefile'`; then\n echo shar: \\\"'Makefile'\\\" unpacked with wrong size!\nfi\n# end of 'Makefile'\nfi\nif test -f 'rx.man' -a \"${1}\" != \"-c\" ; then \n echo shar: Will not clobber existing file \\\"'rx.man'\\\"\nelse\necho shar: Extracting \\\"'rx.man'\\\" \\(3551 characters\\)\nsed \"s/^X//\" >'rx.man' <<'END_OF_FILE'\nX.TH RX 1 \"4 March 1993\" \"X Version 11\"\nX.SH NAME\nXrx,rxterm,r* - remote command, xterm, anything execution\nX.SH SYNOPSIS\nX.B rx\nX[\nX.B \\-l\nX.I username\nX]\nX.I host\nX[\nX.I command\nX]\nX.br\nX.B rxterm\nX[\nX.B \\-l\nX.I username\nX]\nX.I host\nX[\nX.IR args .\\|.\\|.\nX]\nX.SH DESCRIPTION\nXThe \nX.B rx\nXprogram connect to the specified\nX.I host\nXand executes the specified\nX.I command\nXin the background, returning immediately. To allow the execution\nXof X programs, it copies a number of environmental variables to\nXthe remote session. If you omit\nX.IR command ,\nXthen rx will start an xterm on the remote host. The\nX.B rxterm\nXvarient starts a remote xterm on a host, and also passes\nX.I args\nXto the remote xterm as arguments.\nX.PP\nXShell metacharacters which are not quoted are interpreted on the local\nXmachine, while quoted metacharacters are interpreted on the remote\nXmachine.\nX.PP\nXIf the name of the file from which\nX.B rx\nXis executed is anything other than ``rx,''\nX.B rx\nXtakes this name, stripped on a leading ``r'' as the command\nXto run on the remote host, using any\nX.I command\nXparameters as arguments for the remote command.\nX.PP\nXIf\nX.B rx\nXthinks you are using\nX.B xauth\nXbased X authorisation, and you are calling to a off-site host, or\nXto a different username, it will attempt to copy an authorization\nXkey to the remote account. Otherwise it will try to use\nX.B xhost(1)\nXto grant access to the remote host.\nX.SH OPTIONS\nX.TP\nX.BI \\-l \" username\"\nXUse\nX.I username\nXas the remote username instead of your local username. In the absence\nXof this option, the remote username is the same as your local username.\nX\nX.SH ENVIRONMENT\nXIf set, the values of PATH, DISPLAY, XENVIRONMENT, XAPPLRESDIR,\nXXFILESEARCHPATH, XUSERFILESEARCHPATH, OPENWINHOME, LD_LIBRARY_PATH,\nXand XAUTHORITY are exported to the remote program, unless the\nXremote username is different, or the remote host is off-site, in which\nXcase only DISPLAY is exported, with in all cases any variables named in the\nXvariable RXENV.\nX.PP\nXThe DISPLAY variable is tweaked as appropriate, to contain as qualified\nXa hostname as is needed.\nX.SH DIAGNOSTICS\nX.TP\nX.IB command \": don't recognise my name.\"\nX.B rx\nXcannot decode the name it has been called under. In this case\nXit prints a warning message, and continues, as normal.\nX.TP\nX.B \"rx: usage: rx [-l username] hostname [args...]\"\nXThis means it could not decode the arguments given to it.\nX.SH AUTHOR\nXDuncan Sinclair , July 1992\nX.br\nXOriginally based on a program with the same name from the\nX.B gwm\nXdistribution. To distinguish this \"rx\" from other programs\nXwith similar names, you should refer to this program as the\nX.B Glasgow\nX.BR rx .\nX.SH \"SEE ALSO\"\nXX(1), rsh(1), xterm(1), xauth(1), xhost(1), gwm(1)\nX.SH BUGS\nX.B Rx\nXmakes a number of assumptions about the relationship between the\nXlocal user, and the remote one, depending on whether the remote\nXhost is onsite or not, and whether an alternative username was used\nXor not.\nX.PP\nXIn particular, if either the locally used shell, or the remotely\nXused shell is the standard Bourne Shell,\nX.B sh(1)\nXthen strange things are more likely to happen. Especially when \nXit's only one of them.\nX.PP\nXSometimes quoting can get messed up.\nX.PP\nXIt's too easy to fool the smarts in\nX.B rx\nXto make it believe something that is not true, and fail because of it.\nX.PP\nXWhen\nX.B rx\nXuses\nX.B xhost\nXto grant access, the\nX.B xhost\nXcommand may fail silently.\nX.PP\nXIf\nX.B rx\nXtries to send to large a command to the remote machine, it will\nXlikely fail with a parse error from csh. If this happens, you\nXwill probably have to reduce the size of the exported environment.\nEND_OF_FILE\nif test 3551 -ne `wc -c <'rx.man'`; then\n echo shar: \\\"'rx.man'\\\" unpacked with wrong size!\nfi\n# end of 'rx.man'\nfi\nif test -f 'rx.pl' -a \"${1}\" != \"-c\" ; then \n echo shar: Will not clobber existing file \\\"'rx.pl'\\\"\nelse\necho shar: Extracting \\\"'rx.pl'\\\" \\(9028 characters\\)\nsed \"s/^X//\" >'rx.pl' <<'END_OF_FILE'\nX#! /usr/local/bin/perl\nX# CONFIG: change the line above to point to your copy of perl.\nX##############################################################################\nX# Glasgow RX version 3.1.7\nX#\nX# Copyright 1992 Duncan Sinclair \nX#\nX# Last Modified: Early April 1993.\nX#\nX# Distribution limited, as per the usual MIT copyright.\nX##############################################################################\nX# remote execution of X programs. Based on a script in an old version of gwm.\nX#\nX# To install, put rx in your bin and make rxterm a link to it.\nX# Some configuration will be necessary, see \"CONFIG\" comments...\nX#\nX# More and more this is less and less like the original....\nX#\nX# Major hacked to work for our(my) set up, and also partly\nX# re-written to work with sh, rather than ksh.\nX#\nX# Maybe I'll turn this into our first zsh script!\nX#\nX# Looks like it turned into a perl script at some point - big improvement.\nX##############################################################################\nX# This code tries to be intelligent in the way it works. This means there\nX# are tons of implicit assumptions about the environment it is run in.\nX# These assumptions are all valid on the machines I use, and in my\nX# environment. At the same time, I try to make as few assumptions as possible\nX# about the remote machine. Here's a list of all the more tricky ones...\nX# *) That the remote machine has csh. (Linux?)\nX# *) That $RSHELL = /bin/(k)?sh ==> remote shell = /bin/(k)?sh. (Make same.)\nX# *) If remote shell = sh, that $PATH is compatible. (Use csh, etc..)\nX# *) I pass a cookie to the remote machine if need be, but does it\nX# know what to do with a cookie. (eat it?)\nX# *) There must be others...\nX##############################################################################\nX# Why am I using csh to run the remote commands? Simply because it doesn't\nX# interact badly with rsh, and hang waiting for a file descriptor to\nX# be closed. I'd rather use zsh, or bash, or even perl, but they are not\nX# as universal as csh.\nX##############################################################################\nX#\nXrequire \"stat.pl\";\nX#\nX# What we called?\nX#\nX$argv0 = $0 ;\nX$argv0 =~ s:.*/:: ;\nX#\nX# CONFIG:\nX# Change these variables to be your domain name, and a pattern that\nX# will match all variations on your domain name. You must include\nX# those leading dots!!! If your hostname includes your domain, see\nX# the code further down, marked \"XXX\"\nX#\nX$DOM = \".dcs.gla.ac.uk\" ;\nX$DOMPAT = \"\\.dcs(\\.gla(sgow)?(\\.ac\\.uk)?)?\" ;\nX#\nX# CONFIG:\nX# Change this to your value of BINDIR, or set the variable to \"\" if\nX# you think your users are smarter than that.\nX#\nX$XPATHS = \"/usr/X11/bin\" ;\nX#\nX# CONFIG:\nX# Make this the name of your \"remote shell\" command.\nX#\nX$RSH = \"rsh\" ;\nX#\nX# end of CONFIG\nX#\nX# Some variables we'll no doubt use sometime...\nX#\nX$usage = \"$argv0: usage: $argv0 [-l username] hostname [args...]\\n\" ;\nX$RSHELL = (getpwuid($<))[8] || \"/bin/sh\" ;\nX$HOME = $ENV{\"HOME\"} || (getpwuid($<))[7] ;\nX$XAUTH = $ENV{\"XAUTHORITY\"} || $HOME . \"/.Xauthority\" ;\nX$LOGF = \"~/.rx.log\" ;\nX@STUFF = () ;\nX$debug = 0 ;\nX#\nX# Before anything else, close stdin. This might stop rx hanging\nX# due to rsh weirdness.\nX#\nXclose(STDIN);\nX#\nX# do a \"-l\" flag...\nX#\nXif ($ARGV[0] eq \"-l\") {\nX shift ;\nX $User = $ARGV[0] || die $usage ;\nX @LUser = (\"-l\",$User) ;\nX shift ;\nX}\nX#\nX# Pick a host, any host...\nX#\nX$MACH = $ARGV[0] || die $usage ;\nXshift ;\nX#\nX# Things to think about for the remote machine.\nX#\nX$MACH =~ s/$DOMPAT// ;\nX$OffSite = $MACH =~ /\\./ ;\nX#\nX# Where am I? Seems we can't trust the dumb user to set HOSTNAME right!\nX#\nX#$HOSTNAME=$ENV{HOSTNAME} || `hostname` ;\t\t# Current Host\nX$HOSTNAME=`hostname` ;\t\t\t\t\t# Current Host\nX$HOSTNAME =~ s/\\n// ;\nX#\nX# If all your hostnames include your domain, comment out the next line.\nX#\nXif ( $OffSite ) { $HOSTNAME = $HOSTNAME . $DOM ; }\t# XXX\nX#\nX# Now we know where we are, and they are, are they different?\nX#\nX$Diff = $HOSTNAME ne $MACH ;\nX#\nX# What is the display going to be?\nX# !! Danger !! Heavy Regular expressions follow...\nX# This needs to be re-written to be modular and can so be extended to\nX# support resetting host:* to unix:*, as required.\nX#\nX$DISPLAY = $ENV{\"DISPLAY\"} || \":0.0\" ;\nX$DISPLAY =~ s/$DOMPAT// ;\nX$DISPLAY =~ s/^(unix)?(:\\d(\\.\\d)?)$/$HOSTNAME$2/ if ($Diff) ;\nX$DISPLAY =~ s/^([^.]*)(:\\d(\\.\\d)?)$/$1$DOM$2/ if ($OffSite) ;\nX$ENV{\"DISPLAY\"} = $DISPLAY ;\nX#\nX# Here comes the hard bit in sh. Quote our args.\nX# Also have to quote quotes. To cope with csh braindamage,\nX# quotes are quoted thus; ' -> '\\''\nX# So for an arg \"foo'bar\", we get \"'foo'\\''bar'\".\nX#\nXforeach (@ARGV) {\nX s#\\'#\\'\\\\\\'\\'#g ;\nX s#(.*)#\\'$1\\'# ;\nX}\nX#\nX# So what we doing?\nX#\nXPROG: {\nX if ($argv0 eq \"rx\") { last PROG ; }\nX if ($argv0 eq \"rxterm\") {\nX #unshift(@ARGV,\"-ls\") if ($Diff) ;\nX unshift(@ARGV,\"xterm\",\"-ls\",\"-n\",$MACH) ;\nX last PROG ;\nX }\nX if ($argv0 =~ /r(.*)/) { unshift(@ARGV,$1) ; last PROG ; }\nX warn \"$argv0: don't recognise my name.\" ;\nX}\nX#\nX# If nothing else, become an rxterm.\nX#\nXif (@ARGV == 0) {\nX #unshift(@ARGV,\"-ls\") if ($Diff) ;\nX unshift(@ARGV,\"xterm\",\"-ls\",\"-n\",$MACH) ;\nX}\nX#\nX# Some special considerations if we are not ourselves on the other side.\nX#\nXif ($OffSite || $User) {\nX #\nX # We want to pass a cookie here.\nX #\nX if (-e $XAUTH) {\nX #\nX # This is going to be unsecure, as the cookie will appear in a number\nX # of command line args. But at least it'll work.\nX # This will need enhanced if we ever fix the code above to\nX # set DISPLAY to \":0.0\", when we return to the server.\nX #\nX $CooKie = `PATH=\\$PATH:$XPATHS xauth list $DISPLAY` ;\nX chop($CooKie) ;\nX @CooKs = split(' ',$CooKie) ;\nX shift(@CooKs) ;\nX unshift(@STUFF,\"xauth\",\"add\",$DISPLAY,@CooKs,\";\") if (@CooKs == 2) ;\nX } else {\nX #\nX # Yuk. What a crock. I hate doing this.\nX #\nX system(\"xhost +$MACH >/dev/null 2>/dev/null\") if ($Diff) ;\nX }\nX #\nX # We really only want to pass a value for $DISPLAY.\nX #\nX @VARS=(\"DISPLAY\", split(' ',$ENV{\"RXENV\"})) ;\nX} else {\nX #\nX # Some variables we wish to export\nX #\nX @VARS=(\nX \"DISPLAY\",\nX \"XENVIRONMENT\",\nX \"XFILESEARCHPATH\",\nX \"XUSERFILESEARCHPATH\",\nX \"XAPPLRESDIR\",\nX \"OPENWINHOME\",\nX \"LD_LIBRARY_PATH\",\nX # \"MANPATH\",\t\t# for \"rxman\", and bourne shell users.\nX \"XAUTHORITY\",\nX split(' ',$ENV{\"RXENV\"}),\nX ) ;\nX #\nX # Braindead bourne shell, needs to be given a $PATH...\nX # We would rather not pass the current $PATH, because it might not work\nX # on the destination machine. I'd rather it was set by the user's\nX # remote shell during the rsh.\nX # Fortunately, all *my* X programs are in an arch independant place, and\nX # so it shouldn't cos a problem, locally.\nX # We check against $RSHELL, because they might be running another shell,\nX # differant from their login shell. I know, sounds weird, but it's too\nX # common round here.\nX # I've also included ksh in the brain-damage, cos I can't see an easy way\nX # to pass throught $ENV{\"ENV\"} without it being too late. (We only have\nX # one person who has ksh as a login shell anyway...)\nX # Oh, yeah.. we are assuming that if it's bourne shell here, then it's\nX # bourne shell there. Much more important than this is that it it ISNT\nX # bourne shell here, it better not be bourne shell there.\nX #\nX if ($RSHELL =~ m#/(k)?sh#) { push(@VARS,\"PATH\"); }\nX}\nX#\nX# Validate $PWD routine...\nX#\nXsub validate_pwd {\nX local(@pwdstats, @dotstats);\nX local($pwd) = $_[0];\nX\nX unless (defined($pwd)) { return undef; } ;\nX unless (@dotstats = stat(\".\")) { return undef; } ;\nX unless (@pwdstats = stat($pwd)) { return undef; } ;\nX if (($pwdstats[$ST_DEV] != $dotstats[$ST_DEV]) ||\nX ($pwdstats[$ST_INO] != $dotstats[$ST_INO])) { return undef; } ;\nX $pwd;\nX}\nX#\nX# Try and find a nice, valid, pwd.\nX#\nXPRESENT: {\nX if ($PWD = $ENV{\"PWD\"}) {\nX $FOOPWD = $PWD ;\nX $FOOPWD =~ s#(/tmp_mnt|/export)?/(.*)#/$2# ;\nX $PWD = &validate_pwd($FOOPWD) || &validate_pwd($PWD) ;\nX }; \nX unless ($PWD) {\nX chop($PWD = `pwd`) ;\nX $FOOPWD = $PWD ;\nX $FOOPWD =~ s#(/tmp_mnt|/export)?/(.*)#/$2# ;\nX $PWD = &validate_pwd($FOOPWD) || &validate_pwd($PWD) || $HOME;\nX }\nX}\nX$PWD =~ s#(.*)#\\'$1\\'# ;\nX#\nX# Try to find somewhere nice to live on the other side.\nX#\nXunless ($OffSite) {\nX unshift(@STUFF,\"test\",\"-d\",$PWD,\"&&\",\"cd\",$PWD,\";\");\nX}\nX#\nX# Start building the full command.\nX#\nXforeach $var (@VARS) {\nX ($val = $ENV{$var}) &&\nX unshift(@STUFF,\"setenv\",\"$var\",\"\\'\".\"$val\".\"\\'\",\";\") ;\nX}\nX#\nX# Some commands to do on the other side...\nX#\nXunshift(@STUFF,\"set\",\"nonomatch\",\";\");\t# only if we are using csh.\nX#\nX# Build the remote command.\nX#\nX$REMOTE=(\"(umask 077 ; ((\".join(\" \",@STUFF,@ARGV).\")&$LOGF &))\") ;\nX$REMOTE =~ s#\\\"#\\\\\\\"#g ;\nX$REMOTE = \"\\\"\" . $REMOTE . \"\\\"\" ;\nX#\nX# Build the arg list for the exec.\nX#\nX@COMM=($RSH,@LUser,\"$MACH\",\"csh\",\"-fc\",$REMOTE) ;\nX#\nX# Do it!\nX#\nXif ($debug) {\nX print \"@COMM\\n\" ;\nX} else {\nX exec @COMM ;\nX}\nX#\nX# Rsh doesn't return any indication of how it went over\nX# on the other side, but that's OK, cos we aint going to\nX# wait around to see what happened.\nX#\nXexit 0 ;\nX#\nX# tHe ENd\nEND_OF_FILE\nif test 9028 -ne `wc -c <'rx.pl'`; then\n echo shar: \\\"'rx.pl'\\\" unpacked with wrong size!\nfi\nchmod +x 'rx.pl'\n# end of 'rx.pl'\nfi\necho shar: End of archive 1 \\(of 1\\).\ncp /dev/null ark1isdone\nMISSING=\"\"\nfor I in 1 ; do\n if test ! -f ark${I}isdone ; then\n\tMISSING=\"${MISSING} ${I}\"\n fi\ndone\nif test \"${MISSING}\" = \"\" ; then\n echo You have the archive.\n rm -f ark[1-9]isdone\nelse\n echo You still need to unpack the following archives:\n echo \" \" ${MISSING}\nfi\n## End of shell archive.\nexit 0\n\n", "\nYou can configure devices for the same IRQ as long as you don't use them\n*simultaneously*, under Dos at least. Both LPT1: and SB just sit there until\nyou tell them to do something. You can't configure a SoundBlaster for IRQ7\nif you got an Ethernet Card which hits that IRQ a thousand times or so per \nsecond.", "Hi Xperts!\n\nWhere can I get a good example in which XGCValues.plane_mask is used, or\nwho can explain how is it for and how to use it.\n\nAny hints welcome.\n\nThanks.\n", "Anybody seen mouse cursor distortion running the Diamond 1024x768x256 driver?\nSorry, don't know the version of the driver (no indication in the menus) but it's a recently\ndelivered Gateway system. Am going to try the latest drivers from Diamond BBS but wondered\nif anyone else had seen this.\n\npost or email", "Where can I get the Winmarks benchmark to run on my PC?\nvia ftp would be best.\n-Roger", "\n 1. Get the friend to uninstall it.\n 2. Read the manual (though from your post I infer that you are using\n pirated software.)\n 3. Go into SYS.INI and change the SHELL= line to read SHELL=PROGMAN.EXE", "I'd like to put internal disks in a Mac II. I understand that ones needs\na special \"jumper\" cable to acheive this. Does anyone know a source for\nthese? Thanks,\nMike Pazzani\n(pazzani@ics.uci.edu)\n", "Does anyone have any experience using XRunner, CAPBAK/X, or PreVueX\nas an automated test tool for X? Please email me directly with\nopinions (both positive and negative).\n\nAnn Freeman\nSiemens Industrial Automation, Inc.\nJohnson City, TN", "Why don't you just run one LED at 60 KHz and use a flip flop at the receiving\nend to divide by 2 and give you a good square 30KHz signal.\nJust a thought.\nLORI\n ", "\n\n\n\n\nOr somebody get them by a local call and contact a ftp site for\nuploading. If this is not possible, I can keep them on my disk and\nemail the at request uuencoded. Provided, that somebody sends them to\nme, of cource. (I live in NY:-)\n\n--\nPenio Penev x7423 (212)327-7423 (w) Internet: penev@venezia.rockefeller.edu", "In trying to use the Equation editor in Word for Windows 2.0 I get\na couple of error messages along the lines of:\n\n\nSimilar for the font Fences.\n\nI know I have these fonts on my system but are unable to use them.\nI have tried both of these solutions to no avail.\n\nIf anyone has had similar problems and has found a way to fix this, could \nthey let me know. It is urgently required !!\n\nThanks ,\n\n **** Jason Cleeve (j.cleeve@ieee.org) Q **** \n *** ` Comp. Sci. (Hons) & Elect. Eng. /T\\ ' ***\n **** La Trobe University. Australia / \\ ****\n********* Email: cleeve@lucifer.latrobe.edu.au ------\\ **********", "\nBecause you are uptight?\n\nMany computer-literate people see advantages in each system.\n\nYou act like a Mac ate your cat.", "I got the offer to upgrade this weekend. It's $19 + $8.50 shipping and\nhandling. The S+H seem way too steep for just a couple of disks. Sounds\nlike ripoff city. Can this purchased at vendors?\n\n-- ", "\n\nDo I ever!!!!!! After 2 years of having health problems that had been\ncleared up w/allery shots, and not knowing why, I went and was re-tested.\nI actually did better than when I had been tested 2 years ago....\nThen putting 2 + 2 together, I realized that it all started back up\nwhen the laser printer came into the office. I kept track of the usage, and\non hi use days, I was worse. I got better over the weekends....\n\nThe laser printer is gone, I'm 100% better!!!..... Whether it is the toner\ndust or chemicals, I dont know (I am highly allergic to dust...), but\nit definitely was the laser printer....\n\n\n\n\t\t brenda peters\n\t\t carderock div, nswc, david taylor model basin\n\t\t bethesda, md 20084\n\n\t\t e-mail : cape@dtvms.dt.navy.mil\n\t\t\t\t or", "Miscellaneous comics for sale. I really would like\nto get rid of these for lack of space. Buyer pays\nshipping, and all offers considered. OH, and the\nfirst purchase over $20 in any of my posts\ngets a free Maxx #1/2 coupon, or a trashed copy\nof Amazing spidey #300. Here goes...\n\n\nDeathlok #1 $3.00\n 2-17 $1.75 each\n Annual #1 2.50\n Special #1 2.00\n\nSleepwalker 1,2,6,8,9,13 7.00 (set) or 1.25\n each\n\n\nNext Men #1 $3.00\nRay #1 1.00\nDeathstroke 5,6 1.75 each\nDarkhawk 13 1.25\nNew warrior's 18 1.00\nFantasti Four 358 2.50\nMoon Knight 35,36 1.75 each\nHulk 386-388 1.50 each\n\nPunisher W.Z. 1 2.50\nCage 1 1.50\nX-force 1 2.00\nSilver Sable 1 2.00\nX-calibur 26,27,48,49 1.50 each\n\n\nHearts of Darkness 5.00\nInfinity Guantlet 1-4 2.50 each\nBatman v. Pred. 1,3 2.00 each\n \" \" \" (deluxe) 1 5.00\n\nGuardians of the\nGalaxy 1 3.00\nSpider-man 2099 1-3 5.00 (set)\nSpec. spider-man 189 3.00 (special hologram)\n\nLet me know if you'd like to buy anything. My\naddress is U38134@uicvm.uic.edu", ": > My question is this: Is there a means of determining what the state\n: > of CapsLock and/or NumLock is?\n\n: Alright. Ignore this. I have delved a bit deeper (XKeyEvent) and\n: found what I was looking for.\n\n: ev->state has a bunch of masks to check against (LockMask is the one\n: for CapsLock). Unfortunately, it appears that the NumLock mask varies\n: from server to server. How does one tell what mask is numlock and\n: which are for Meta (Mod1Mask, Mod2Mask, Mod3Mask, Mod4Mask, Mod5Mask).\n: eg, SGI's vendor server has Mod2Mask being NumLock, whereas Solaris\n: 1.0.1 OpenWindows 3.0 has Mod3Mask for NumLock. Is there an\n: unambiguous means of determining NumLock's mask at runtime for any\n: given server? Sorry for the wasted bandwidth and my appalling ignorance.\n\nYou'll have to check the keysym(s) on each of the keys for each\nmodifier. The one with NumLock in its mapping is the modifier\nyou want. A bit ugly perhaps but I think its currently the only\nway to do this (and it does have some precedent as keysyms are \nused to differentiate CapsLock from ShiftLock for the Lock\nmodifier).\n\nI don't know of an accepted strategy for handling ambiguous\nassignments either. (ie. what if NumLock is mapped for more then\none modifier). I suppose first found is as good as any.\n\nX doesn't handle locking modifiers that well. \n\nHope that helps,\n\nDave Lapp", "Well,\n\n You can always try and find a PC dealer who sells guaranteed memory.\nI work at a company growing at 40% a year, we have on order hundreds\nof computers per year. It never fails, machines come in with BAD SIMMS.\nNow for those of you who are wondering just WHY your PC or MAC just crashed\nI can tell you I always thought it was the incompetent ass who wrote or\ndesigned the software.\n Well, I don't think that way anymore, especially with the results I\nhave gotten with replacing BAD SIMMS in my own machine and others at work.\nThe moral to this story is to MAKE SURE your memory is good. I would\nbe willing to bet lots of you out there have SIMMS with either soft\nor hard errors on them and you don't even know about it, but every once\nin awhile those bad SIMMS just makes your life hell.\n \nI just got plain SICK of dealing with peoples complaints that thier machine\njust crashed and they lost thier work. In case your wondering, or if you\nhaven't already guessed I work in an IS department. Service is a do or die\nperogative in this line of work, so the MORAL IS: HAVE YOUR MEMORY TESTED\nwith a SIMM hardware tester...and NO I don't mean the simple little software\nprograms that you can run in your machine. SIMMS are complicated little\nbeasts and they needs special hardware to test them effectively.\n\nIf any of you are interested in getting one of these nifty little devices\nwhich are not cheap, write me back. They make life a little bit easier, and\nbesides they pay for themselves in a short time from the loss of productivity\npeople would have to deal with when thier machine commits suicide.", "Yes! what you are saying is absolutey true, but what you fail to mention is the\nfact that the LCIII uses the new 72 pin simms which allow 32 bit access to\neach simm. In the case of the LC III, it only has one simm slot, but accesses will\nbe 32 bits wides.\n***************************************************************************\n The views expressed in this posting those of the individual author only. \n[BBS Number:(613) 848-1346 MacContent is VictoriaÕs first Iconic BBS!]\n***************************************************************************\n\n", "\n\nAccording to MacWeek of 2-22-93:\n\nThe Cyclone will come in the same metal minitower case as the Quadra\n800, while the Tempest will share the low-slung case of the Centris\n610. Apple will offer a miniature video camera that can be mounted\nabove the user's monitor or moved about on the end of its cable to take\npictures of objects or documents. Taking advantage of the 32-bit\ndigital signal processor (DSP) built into the systems' logic boards,\nthe camera will be able to put an image measuring 360 by 288 pixels,\nwith 256 gray levels, on the screen.\n\nUsers will be able to install supplementary lenses that can record\ndetail as fine as the wire bonds on an integrated circuit. The camera\nis expected to cost between $150 and $250.\n\nThe systems will ship with all the software needed to put Apple's\nCasper voice-recognition technology to work; users apparently will have\nto purchase an operational high-fidelity microphone.\n\nThe two models will talk as well as listen. A new system facility\ncalled the Speech Manager will convert text strings sent by\napplications to phonemes and then pass them to a speech synthesizer.\n\nThe Cyclone will include a 40MHz '040, three NuBus slots and support\nfor up to 128MB of RAM. The Tempest will use a 25MHz LC040, lacking an\nFPU, and hold up to 68MB of RAM; it will have a single slot that will\nrequire a NuBus adapter and have room for only 7-inch NuBus cards.\nUsers will be able to update the Tempest's process but not the\nCyclone's.", "Has anybody the xswarm enhacemened to use it with more than one wasp?\n\nPlease E-Mail me, because I don't read this group any longer.\n\nThanks in advance,\n\tKlaus.", "I'm working upon a game using an isometric perspective, similar to\nthat used in Populous. Basically, you look into a room that looks\nsimilar to the following:\n\n xxxx\n xxxxx xxxx\n xxxx x xxxx\n xxxx x xxxx\n xxxx 2 xxxx 1 xxxx\n x xxxx xxxx x\n x xxxx xxxx x\n x xxxx o xxxx x\n xxxx 3 /|\\ xxxx\n xxxx /~\\ xxxx\n xxxx xxxx\n xxxx xxxx\n xxxx\n\nThe good thing about this perspective is that you can look and move\naround in three dimensions and still maintain your peripheral vision. [*]\n\nSince your viewpoint is always the same, the routines can be hard-coded\nfor a particular vantage. In my case, wall two's rising edge has a slope\nof 1/4. (I'm also using Mode X, 320x240).\n\nI've run into two problems; I'm sure that other readers have tried this\nbefore, and have perhaps formulated their own opinions:\n\n1) The routines for drawing walls 1 & 2 were trivial, but when I ran a\npacked->planar image through them, I was dismayed by the \"jaggies.\" I'm\nnow considered some anti-aliasing routines (speed is not really necessary).\nIs it worth the effort to have the artist draw the wall already skewed,\nthus being assured of nice image, or is this too much of a burden?\n\n2) Wall 3 presents a problem; the algorithm I used tends to overly distort\nthe original. I tried to decide on paper what pixels go where, and failed.\nHas anyone come up with method for mapping a planar to crosswise sheared\nshape?\n\nCurrently I take:\n\n 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16\n 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32\n 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48\n 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64\n\nand produce:\n \n 1 2 3 4\n33 34 35 36 17 18 19 20 5 6 7 8\n49 50 51 52 37 38 39 40 21 22 23 24 9 10 11 12\n 53 54 55 56 41 42 43 44 25 26 27 28 13 14 15 16\n 57 58 59 60 45 46 47 48 29 30 31 32\n 61 62 63 64\n\nLine 1 follows the slope. Line 2 is directly under line 1.\nLine 3 moves up a line and left 4 pixels. Line 4 is under line 3.\nThis fills the shape exactly without any unfilled pixels. But\nit causes distortions. Has anyone come up with a better way?\nPerhaps it is necessary to simply draw the original bitmap\nalready skewed?\n\nAre there any other particularly sticky problems with this perspective?\nI was planning on having hidden plane removal by using z-buffering.\nLocations are stored in (x,y,z) form.\n\n[*] For those of you who noticed, the top lines of wall 2 (and wall 1)\n*are* parallel with its bottom lines. This is why there appears to\nbe an optical illusion (ie. it appears to be either the inside or outside\nof a cube, depending on your mood). There are no vanishing points.\nThis simplifies the drawing code for objects (which don't have to\nchange size as they move about in the room). I've decided that this\napproximation is alright, since small displacements at a large enough\ndistance cause very little change in the apparent size of an object in\na real perspective drawing.\n\nHopefully the \"context\" of the picture (ie. chairs on the floor, torches\nhanging on the walls) will dispell any visual ambiguity.\n\nThanks in advance for any help.\n", "Does anyone know where I can ftp or somehow else acquire the latest\nvideo drivers /fonts for an ATI SVGA adapter? The only floppy I have\nis for Windows 3.0. Does anyone know if ATI is still in business?\n\nThanks!", "I would like to be able to amplify a voltage signal which is\noutput from a thermocouple, preferably by a factor of\n100 or 1000 ---- so that the resulting voltage can be fed\nmore easily into a personal-computer-based ADC data\nacquisition card.\n\nMight anyone be able to point me to references to such\ncircuits? I have seen simple amplifier circuits before, but\nI am not sure how well they work in practice.\n\nIn this case, I'd like something which will amplify sufficiently\n\"nicely\" to be used for thermocouples (say, a few degrees\naccuracy or better).", "I'd be interested in a copy of this code if you run across it.\n(Mail to the author bounced)\n > / hpldsla:comp.graphics / ricky@vnet.ibm.com (Rick Turner) / 12:53 am May 13,\n 1993 /\n > I fooled around with this problem a few years ago, and implemented a\n > simple method that ran on a PC.\n > was very simple - about 40 or 50 lines of code.\n . . .\n > Somewhere I still have it\n > and could dig it out if there was interest.\n >\n > Rick", "Sorry for wasting your time with a probably simple question, but I'm not\nan computer graphic expert. I want to read TIFF-Files with a PASCAL-program.\nThe problem is, that the files I want to read are in compressed form \n( code 1, e.g. Huffman ). All books & articles I found describe only the\nplain (uncompressed) format. I don't know where to get the original\nTIFF specification, furthermore I haven't any access to a realy complete\nlibrary. Can anybody direct me to a good book or (even better) to an \nspecification available via ftp ?\n\nThanks in advance - Thomas Wolf", "About this QUADRA 700, 800 clock acceleration: has anyone heard\nof anything like it for the QUADRA 950?\n\nPlease reply e-mail, I don't get to the news very often. Thanks!!", "Greetings!\n\nI am looking pro a Win 3.1 printer driver for the Panasonic laser printer\nKX-P4430. (I am not sure about the order of the first letters in the\nname, but the numbers are right and they are important.) I have found \ndrivers for Panasonic printers 4450 and so on, but I think there should\nbe drivers available where the 4430 model is included. \n\nGrateful for any help!\n\n--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n \tkjell@hut.fi \tkjell@niksula.hut.fi\tkjell@vipunen.hut.fi", "Rather than write my own, can anyone direct me to a package that will let me create\ncascaded popup menus in X windows. For reasons of portability, the package should \nnot rely on any X toolkit other than XLib and the XT Intrinsics. Something written\nin C++ would be nice, too.", "\n\nThe problem is that this will also cause \"a certain amount of interference\"\nin *all* systems within the range of the device. A long time ago I built a\nsmall jammer to dissuade my brother from using his radio alarm clock at \nsomething like 4am, which had just enough range to cover my room and his.\nHowever something powerful enough to mask all (or at least most) emissions from\nyour computer equipment is also going to knock out half your neighbourhoods\nradio and TV reception. This isn't going to make you many friends.\n\nIncidentally, an older-model TRS80 makes a fine wideband jammer \n\nPeter.", "Hello everyone,\n\nCould anyone tell me where to find some information about NetBios and Bios\ninterrupt calls. A book or maybe an FTP site.\n\nThank you in advance.", "I am looking for a WINDOW 3.1 driver for \n Cornerstone DualPage (Cornerstone Technology, Inc) \nvideo card. Does anybody know, that has these? Is there one?\n\nThanks for any info,\n\nTo~nis", "My roommate is selling a Sega Genesis system with Sonic I,\nin very nice condition, for $100 obo. Please respond via\nemail to:\n\t\tpathall@as.arizona.edu\n\nAlternate email addresses are phall@noao.edu and moe@ccit.arizona.edu.", "Timeshare week for rent / must use before July / Best offer!!\n\n\nWeek can be \"traded\" to anywhere in the world (Hawaii, Austria,\nFar East, U.S. etc.) under Interval International. \n\n\nWill answer questions about that, and help you trade (we have \nthe paperwork and phone numbers in order to that).\n", "\n\nThey are 3D object files for CAD 3D 2.0, a program written by Tom Hudson\nfor the Atari ST computers. Don't know much more about them except that\nthey are stored with the points first, then the surfaces are next, and are\nmade by listing 3 point numbers that make up the triangle surface. Then\nthere's a header that describes coloring, lighting, etc. Don't know much\nmore than this, hope this helps.", "I have the following CD's for sale at $6 each ($5 for 3 or more) except\nwhere a special price is noted.\n\nMelissa Etheridge never enough\nSinead O'Connor I do not want...\nChicago 19\nPeter Cetera One More Story\nEric Clapton Layla from Unplugged (CD single - $3)\nBeverly Craven Beverly Craven\nBobby McFerrin Simple Pleasures\nLynyrd Skynyrd Gold and Platinum (Double set - $10)\nElectric Light Orchestra Greatest Hits\nLinda Ronstadt Greatest Hits\nBuster Movie Soundtrack\nPretty Woman Movie Soundtrack\nCandy Dulfer Saxuality\nYanni DARE to dream\nChuck Mangione feels so good\nBobby Mcferrrin and\n chick Corea Play\nTangerine Dream Stratosfear\nOrmandy and Phil. Orch. Beethoven's Ninth\nMehta and N.Y. Phil. Wagner - The Ring (highlights)\nMata and Dallas Symph. Ravel - Bolero, Albordado..., Rapsodie espagnole\nMason Williams and\nMannhein Steamroller Classical Gas\nLevi and Atlanta Symph. Hindemith - Symphonic Metamorphosis\nWilhelm Kempff Beethoven - Piano Sonatas 8, 14, 15\n\nAll are in excellent condition. Email for details or songlists.\n", "\n\nIt must be... ...I type it with my left hand. Personally, I would have\na real problem with my keyboard opened up like that, because I tend to\nshare some keys with both hands, particularly if I'm doing something else\nwith one hand (like using the cursor keys, mouse, or glass of Jolt).", "\n\n\nI have a copy. It isn't in there. Microsoft says it will not be in\nthe release version, either. He just asked if it did or not. I told\nhim. \n\n\nYou're welcome.\n\n-- \n\"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live\n in the real world.\" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden", "I just moved from Borland C++ 3.0 to Visual C++ today. When I tried\nto compile my C++ program, it complained a function prototype problem.\nIt turned out that the typedef WORD in MS C++ is a BYTE, not unsigned int.\n\n Could anyone shine some light on this subject ? Why a WORD is a BYTE ?\n\n\n-Ming T. Lin\n\n", "\nI would suggest skipping olwm and getting olvwm instead. This version of the\nolwm window manager implements a virtual desktop that I find really handy even\non large monitors. \n\nThis version is also available at export.lcs.mit.edu:/contrib/olvwm3.tar.Z.\nThe README file also suggest getting the files in /contrib/xview3.\n\nIn my case, I built the X Server first, Xview second, then olvwm. All of these\nwere installed into /usr/X5. Once I verified the server worked correctly,\nI happily issued \"rm -rf /usr/openwin/*\".\n\nUsing gcc 2.3.3 to build all of the above resulted in a windowing system that \nis, for all intents and purposes, identical to OpenWindows 3.0 and that is \nincredibly faster. There is a bit of tweaking you will have to do if you want\nthings to work _exactly_ like OpenWindows, but not much. \n", "Hi Xperts!\n I have a Sparc-1 with very limited disk space on /usr partition.\n previously, i was able to run all x-windows applications and then \n i upgraded my system to sun o.s. 4.1.3 and realized that , the hard\ndisk did not have enough space to load openwindows. My immediate alternative\nwas to load only the neccessary files to boot the system. This resulted in\nnot loading openwindows. As a result of which none of the X-libraries got loaded.\n\n I am trying to load just the libraries and include files and bin/X11 files \nrequired for running X-windows and compiling my programs written for Xlib and Xaw.\nIn a desperate effort to regain x-windows, i retrieved /usr/lib/libX*.* files from\nthe tape . /usr/bin/X11/* and /usr/include/X11/* . Is this enough for running X-windows\n \n BUt i did not get /usr/lib/X11/fonts/ sub directories . these are mainly 100dpi, 75dpi\n and misc. \n\nwhen i run xinit, the error message says /usr/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi etc are not in the\ndefault path. But the problem is i cannot load any of those directories as there is no\ndisk space. \nAre there any temporary suggestions before I get a 1.5 GB disk and load openwindows , to\njust have my x-windows running. \n\nThanks\n\nPramod\n ", "\nWhat group is this? This is not a MAC group.\n\n\nWhy the spec list again? We are talking SCSI on a PC, not on a MAC or\na UNIX box. And we are talking ISA bus, or possibly EISA or VLB.\n\nThis isin't comp.periphs.SCSI.\nTell me what the performance figures are with a single SCSI drive on a PC\nwith an ISA (or EISA or VLB) bus.\n\nTheoretical performance figures are not relevant to this group or this\ndebate. I'm sure that there are some platforms out there that can\nhandle the 40 megs/sec of SCSI xyz wide'n'fast, but the PC isin't one of\nthem.\n", "\n\n\n\n The joystick reads in anolog values through a digital port. How?\n You send a command to the port to read it, then you time how long\n it takes for the joystick port to set a certain bit. This time\n is proportional to the joystick position. Obviously, since time\n is used as a position, you cannot get rid of this ridiculus waste \n of time. If you wrote your own routine instead of the BIOS, it\n would speed it up some, but the time would still be there.\n\n-- ", "Hello,\n I've recently had Povray draw about 10 sample files. The problem is that\nI accidently erased the command in my povray.def that made the image a targas\nfile. So now the files are the dump format. How do I fix these files with out\nhaving to re-trace them? By fix I mean, turn them into targas. Thanks in\nadvance.\n -Jerry", "I would like to get some information on the current systems used for HD-TV\nsound systems.thanks.\n", "\n Try Goldstar. They make them, and they are available immediately in Mac\nconfigurations. I ordered a pair from Computerland (8 meg variety) and\nthey work like a charm. I've had them for two weeks.", "Here's an interesting table showing how much resources an application\nuses and how much it gives back on shut down. This is take from\nWindows User May 1993 issue:\n\n\nApplication\t\tMin. Resource Use\tResource Not Returned\n\t\t\tGDI\tUSER\t\tGDI\tUSER\n\nWinSleuth Gold v3.03\t10\t6\t\t2\t14\nWord For Windows v2.0b\t10\t0\t\t5\t0\nLotus 123 v1.1\t\t13\t3\t\t3\t2\nArts and Leters v3.12\t7\t7\t\t3\t1\nPowerPoint v3.0\t\t9\t1\t\t3\t0\nCorel Draw v3.0\t\t10\t6\t\t3\t0\nMicro. Designer v3.1\t10\t2\t\t2\t0\nCrossTalk v2.0\t\t0\t0\t\t0\t0\nExcel v4.0a\t\t11\t8\t\t0\t0\nHiJacck v1.0\t\t2\t2\t\t0\t0\nImage-In Color Pro\t3\t2\t\t0\t0\nPIcture Publisher v3.1\t21\t8\t\t0\t0\t\nPowerLeads!-\n Executive Ed. v1.03\t0\t5\t\t0\t0\nAdobe Type Manager v2.5\t1\t0\t\tNA\tNA\nSkylight v2.0\t\t1\t0\t\t0\t0\n\n*The numbers are in percentage and are in a decreasing order.\n\nWhat does this table tells you, if you frequently start and exit a\nprogram that doesn't give back all of it's resources, then you\ncontinually lose these resouces. Therefore, only open these programs\nup once and leave them open.\n\n\nBTW: Maybe people can add to this list so we know what application to\nwatch out for.", "[I am posting this for a friend whose news service is \"fubared as usual\".\n I will forward replies to him, or if you want to try to reply directly,\n try: Return-Path: PR ]\n\n\nI have an event handler working for a ButtonPressMask like:\n\n XtAddEventHandler( plot_data->display, ButtonPressMask, FALSE,\n show_mouse_position, plot_data);\n\nbut I would like to be able to have two types of actions: one to occur\nwith the left mouse, the other the right, and perhaps one with the\nmiddle. So my event handler would look more like:\n\n\n XtAddEventHandler( plot_data->display, left-ButtonPressMask, FALSE,\n show_left_mouse_position, plot_data);\n\n XtAddEventHandler( plot_data->display, right-ButtonPressMask, FALSE,\n show_right_mouse_position, plot_data);\n\nHowever I don't know how to make my left-ButtonPressMask. There didn't seem\nto be one in the event mask lists I had on hand (although Button1MotionMask\nlooked promising). My references also mentioned using \"|\" to or two\nmask events. Can you use \"&\" to and two masks? Would I want to in this\ncase? \n\nAny help would be appreciated.\n\nThanks, ", "\nWhen Apple came with their demos to Iowa State, I got a chance to run\nSpeedometer3.1 on some of the new Macs. Both machines were running\nSystem7.1, had a 14\" RGB. Don't know what the caches were set to.\nNeither machine had an FPU It appears that the Centris610 is quite a\nbit faster than the LC III:\n\n\t\tCentris610\t\tLCIII\n\nCPU\t\t13.01\t\t\t6.92\nGraf\t\t15.67\t\t\t7.69\nDisk\t\t2.22\t\t\t2.44\nMath\t\t25.57\t\t\t10.19\n\nP.R. Rating\t12.91\t\t\t6.58\n\nSo, there is a comparison. There is definitely a very noticable speed\ndifference between these two machines according to Speedometer3.1. ", "I've recently re-uploaded to cica the current (v2.8) version of the working \nmodel of MicroCal Origin, a scientific and technical 2D/3D graphics and data \nanalysis package for Windows 3.x. The working model is 2D only and puts a\npromo message on hardcopies, but is largely identical to the full version.\nSaving Origin files is disabled, but you can save ASCII data sets produced\nwith Origin. It also says it has an expiration date of Sept. 1, 1993.\n\nTry it. You may like it, as I do!\n\nIt's currently at ftp.cica.indiana.edu (129.79.20.17) in the directory\n/pub/pc/win3/uploads as ORIGIN2.ZIP. The file ORIGIN.ZIP is, unfortunately,\nincomplete (SORRY 'BOUT THAT!).", "I have the following Marx Brothers tapes forsale. I would like to sell\nthem as a batch if possible. All (except *) are new, carfully stored\ncopies I bought. I now own the laserdisks.\n\nMGM/UA:\nA Day at the Races\nAt the Circus\nThe Big Store\n\nMCA\nHourse Feathers\nThe Cocoanuts\nDuck Soup*\nAnimal Crackers*\n\n\n-- \nbrian\noplinger@ra.crd.ge.com", "Hi,\n\nI got a NE2100 compatible ethernet card, and I just received my copy\nof Chameleon NFS. Unfortunately, it is not compatible with the NE2100\n(only NE2000 or NE1000). What is the latest version number for Chameleon\nNFS ? Did soemone tackle this problem ?\n\nThanks for help,\n\nF. Popineau\n", "I'm having a real tough time finding out the proper adapters to use a VGA\nmonitor (an IBM 8513 sold w/ many PS/2's to be exact) on the Mac LC III. \nAll of the vendors I have called say that the internal video will not work\non a true VGA monitor but will work on a IBM Compatible multisync like the\nsony's or the NEC monitors. I thought the VGA capability of LCIII was very\nattractive because it allowed you to use inexpensive VGA monitors. Am I\nconfused or are these vendors just not up to speed? Has anyone used an\nLCIII with a non multisync VGA monitor and if so where did you get your\nadapter (please be specific w/ vendor and cat #)? I would prefer to get a\napple monitor for these LCIII's (it's unseemly to see the finder inside an\nIBM bezel) but the more money we save on monitors the more LCIII's we can\nafford and the more PS/2's we can get rid of!", "\n\nDon't forget the LAMG (Los Angeles Macintosh Group) BBS! It's the BBS for\nthe largest Mac-only user group in the country now that BMUG is\nmulti-platform.", "\n\nIf you are planning on using this on a regular basis, conncting the printer\nto file can become bothersome because Windows then asks you for the filename\nthat you want to create. I've found that putting a line in system.ini in the\nports section with just a path and filename works. The only problem is that\nif you send more than one job, the second one deletes the first.\n\n\nChris", "\n\n\nIt isn't. ;-)\n\nUse tar on the Un*x box and gtak110.zip on the DOS box. Needs ASPI driver.\n\n\nRalf\n", "Urgent help needed. Daughter has SE 30 and Imagewriter II. Worked well until\nyesterday. Now when she tries to print from Macwrite II or Acta the printing\nmessage comes on, but not printing! Bought new cable, still no printing. Moved\ncable to modem port, still no printing! I'm a DOS person and don't know where\nto begin. Are there diagnostics for a MAC?\n", "Reposting and summarizing, for your information or additional comment.\n\n*** THIS IS LONG ***\n\nI have 16MB of memory on my 386SX (25 MHz), an Intel math coprocessor, and\na 120MB hard drive with 20MB free (no compression). I have been running\nMathcad 3.1, under Windows 3.1 in enhanced mode, with a 5MB RAM drive,\n2MB/1MB Smart drive, and no swap file (permanent or temporary) for\nseveral months.\n\nI am interested in the faster Mathcad 4.0, but I am concerned about reported\nswap file requirements and the legitimacy of Mathsoft's claim about increased\nspeed.\n\nTO 386SX USERS:\n\n Will Mathcad 4.0 run without a swap file, or insist that I use a swap file?\n\nSo far, in response to a less detailed description of my setup, or in\nunrelated postings, the more informed answers, on the net or by E-mail,\nappear to be:\n\n 1) by fuess@llnl.gov (David A. Fuess) >>\n\n >> According to Mathsoft, no. Mathcad uses the swap file extensively so as\n >> not to overburden the physical resources. They say this is actually a\n >> win32s feature. A figure of 10MB was indicated to me as a minimum. But\n >> you might try anyway!\n\n 2) by bert.tyler@satalink.com (Bert Tyler) >>\n\n >> I'm not all that certain that Mathcad is the culprit here.\n >>\n >> I have a 486/66DX2 with 16MB of main memory (less 2MB for a RAMdisk and\n >> a bit for a DOS session that is opened as part of the startup process),\n >> which I have been running without any swapfile. When I installed the\n >> WIN32s subsystem from the March Beta of the NT SDK, the WIN32s subsystem\n >> itself demanded the presence of a swapfile. The only WIN32s program\n >> I've run to date is the 32-bit version of Freecell that came with that\n >> subsystem.\n >>\n >> I gave Windows a small temporary swapfile (I'm leery of files that must\n >> remain in fixed locations on my hard disk), and all seems well.\n\n 3) by bca@ece.cmu.edu (Brian C. Anderson) >>\n\n >> What is Win32? I upgraded to Mathcad 4.0 and it installed a directory for\n >> Win32 under \\windows\\system . During the upgrade it told me that win32\n >> was required.\n\n 4) by case0030@student.tc.umn.edu (Steven V Case-1) >>\n\n >> MathCad 4.0 makes use of the Win32s libraries. You've probably\n >> heard about Win32s, it is a 32-bit Windows library that provides\n >> much of the Windows NT functionality (no support for threads and\n >> multitasking and such) but can be run under Windows 3.1.\n\n 5) by rhynetc@zardoz.chem.appstate.edu (Thomas C. Rhyne) >>\n\n >> I also have 16 Mb of ram, and indeed Mathcad 4.0 insisted on a permanent\n >> swapfile; it would not run otherwise.\n\n 6) by bishop@baeyer.chem.fsu.edu (Greg Bishop) >>\n\n >> 3) MathCAD absolutely requires 4MB RAM (with 12MB swap file) or 8MB RAM\n >> (with 8MB swap file). It will give you a not enough memory error if the\n >> swap file is less than 8MB. It is a MAJOR resource hog. If you do not\n >> load the symbolic processor or the smart math, it takes about 5MB of RAM\n >> (real or virtual) just to load (again, due to the win32s libraries.\n\n********************************************************************************\n* *\n* So it seems that in addition to the system requirements shown on Mathsoft's *\n* advertisement for 4.0, that you need a swap file, possibly as big as 12MB. *\n* Looks like I would just need an 8MB swap file, and would need to choose (or *\n* can I?) between a faster permanent swap file, or a slower temporary swap file*\n* *\n* Apparently a Win32 subsystem ships with Mathcad 4.0 - how much disk space *\n* does this require? *\n* *\n********************************************************************************\n\nI also received these answers:\n\n 1) by mfdjh@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Dale Hample) >>\n\n >> If you've got 16 megs of RAM, why not configure 10megs as a ram disk for\n >> Mathcad? DOS 6 permits different bootup configurations.\n\n********************************************************************************\n* *\n* Can Mathcad 4.0 + Win32 be configured to use such a RAM drive instead of a *\n* swap file? If not, I don't see how using DOS 6.0 for an alternate bootup *\n* would provide Windows with this swap file. Some time back I remember a *\n* discussion about the issues of using a RAM drive to support a swap file, *\n* but I thought this involved slower, < 8MB systems. *\n* *\n* I have DOS 6.0 but for various reasons have not yet done a full installation.*\n* *\n* By the way, is a full installation of DOS 6.0 required to avail oneself of *\n* the \"alternate bootup\" feature? Which files from the installation disks are *\n* required? *\n* *\n********************************************************************************\n\n 2) by wild@access.digex.com (Wildstrom) >>\n\n >> Presumeably, you mean without a _permanent_ swap file. If Windows needs a\n >> swap file, it will upo and create one if a permanent one doesn't exist.\n >> Permanent is generally faster though. I don't know why Mathcad wouldn't\n >> be happy with either type--Ver. 3.0 is and so should any program conforming\n >> to the Win specification.", "I have the following prerecorded VHS tapes for sale. All are in\ngreat shape and are being sold since I have replaced all of them\nwith laserdiscs:\n \n Star Wars\n The Empire Strikes Back\n Return of the Jedi\n Batman\n Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom\n Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade\n E.T.", "\nThere is a premium of approx $200 for the controller. What is nice is \nbeing able to run hard disks, tape drives, cd-roms and scanners of\none dma channel and interupt!\n\nSCSI makes sense is you are going to load up a machine, if you just want\na standard box for Windows then IDE makes sense.\n\nI have one loaded box that uses SCSI and run Unix and one standard box\nthat runs DOS/Windows that uses IDE.\n\n\n[ By standard I mean - 486, 4-8MB RAM, 200MH disk, S3 video ]\n\n\nI beleive this last bit is just plain wrong!\n\n\nGuy", "As most of you know, we have recently changed our standard VESA local-bus\nvideo card from our own NCR-based card to the new Diamond Stealth 24 VLB card\nfor packages 2, 3, and 4 (package #1 still has the NCR \"screamer'). We also have\nadded the $149 upgrade from the Stealth 24 or NCR to the Diamond Viper to our\nproduct list. Below are the comparisons of the different cards in the\nconfigurations we will offer:\n\n NCR Stealth 24 VLB Viper VLB\n64Ox480 Colors 16,256 16,256,32K,64K,16.7M 16,256,32K,64K,16.7M *\n8OOx6OO Colors 16,256 16,256,32K,64K 16,256,32K,64K *\n1024x768 Colors 16,256 16,256 16,256\n1280x1024 Colors 16 16 16\nVideo Processor NCR 77C22E+ S3 86C805 Weitek Power 9000\nVideo RAM 1M 1M 1M\nMax RAM addressable\n by Vid Processor 3M 2M 2M\nRAM Type DRAM DRAM VRAM\nUser RAM Upgrade? No (no sockets) No (no sockets) Yes (thru\nDiamond)\n64Ox480 Refresh 60-72 Hz 60-72 Hz 60-72 Hz\n8OOx6OO Refresh 56-72 Hz 56-72 Hz 56-72 Hz\n1024x768 Refresh 44-70 Hz 43-72 Hz 43-72 Hz\n128Oxl024 Refresh 43 Hz 43-60 Hz 43-74 Hz\n26 pin VESA\n Feature Connector No Yes No \nConflict with x2E8\n port addr (COM4) No YES* No*\nDrivers for:\n Win 3.1 Yes Yes Yes\n ACad 9/10/11 Yes Yes Yes\n ACad 12 No Yes** Yes**\n VESA Yes Yes Yes\n OS/2, WinNT NO*** NO*** NO***\nWin 3.1 WINMARKS 10.5M**** 21 M**** 50M****\n\n\n^L\n* Viper VLB with 2M of video RAM also gives 8OOx6OO 16.7M, 1024x768 32K &\n 64K, and 1280xl 024 256 color. S3-based cards, since they are downward\n compatible, will have the conflict with 2E8. Diamond admits conflict will\n exist with the Stealth 24. The prelim Viper manual incorrectly lists the \n S3 port addresses. No conflict. \n\n\n** AutoCAD 12 drivers are now currently available for Stealth, SpeedSTAR\n 24X, Stealth 24 VLB, and Viper VLB. They can only be obtained from\n Diamond Tech Support, 408-736-2000 and NOT on any BBS. \n\n** OS/2 2.0 is supported for Standard VGA for all cards. SVGA drivers\n available in the near future. Windows NT is not released yet, and no\n drivers are available currently. Diamond hopes to have all current\n products supported in the Win NT release, on the NT disks.", "RE: Irish/Gaelic TrueType Font wanted - synopsis\n\n \nMany thanks to those who responded to my question. Unfortunately I have\nhad no luck in actually getting such a font, and a lot of people interested\nin geting one, and so I have decided to create my own truetype font fitting \nthat description. This font is based on that used in the 1904 issue of \nDineen's dictionary and is typical of that found in Irish books from the \nearly part of the century. This may take me some time to do (in my\nlimited spare time) but I'll make it available to anyone who is interested, \nwhen it is ready.\n\nThe responses I received are summerised below:\n\nKevin Donnelly (caoimhin@smo.ac.uk) mentioned that Michael Everson\n(everson@irlearn.ucd.ie) had developed some Clo/ Gaelach fonts\nfor the Macintosh and may be able to advise me. I contacted Michael\nand he told me that he has three fonts available for the Macintosh, and\nthat he will eventually port them to the PC, but that he will be charging \nIR 100 (about $160) for each one.\n\npbryant@ukelele.GCR.COM mentioned that he uses two font that have a\n'nice Irish/Gaelic look to them'. These are \"Durrow\" and \"American \nUncial-Normal\". I don't know where you can get these but I don't\nthink that they have the effects I am looking for.\n\nFinally, rhiannon@netcom.com (Rhia) mentioned that the \"Meath\" font\nincluded in the Casady & Greene Fluent Laser Fonts 2 package\nis very much like what I was describing. I faxed Casady & Greene for\ninfo but got no reply.\n\nSo that's it. I'll post these newsgroups when I make my font available.", "Help!!!\n\nI have an ADB graphicsd tablet which I want to connect to my\nQuadra 950. Unfortunately, the 950 has only one ADB port and\nit seems I would have to give up my mouse.\n\nPlease, can someone help me? I want to use the tablet as well as\nthe mouse (and the keyboard of course!!!).\n\nThanks in advance.", "FOR SALE:\n\nAT&T Dataport Internal 14.4K Fax/Modem\n\nThe modem is an internal AT/(E)ISA 8-bit card (just a little longer\nthan a half-card). It has v.32bis for 14.4Kbps data / 9600 bps fax,\nv.42, v.42bis, and MNP5 for error-correction and data compression, so\nyou can get error-free links up to 57,600 bps on a conventional phone\nline. They will \"fall back\" to any speed (down to 1200bps) and even\ndisable compression and error-correction if necessary in order to\nconnect with slower and older modems.\n\nIt has a 16550 buffered UART for better compatibility with\nmulti-tasking operating systems (Windows, OS/2, Unix, etc).\n\nThey use a patented technology called Optical Line Interface (OLI)\nwhich reduces noise generated by the modem to assure the fastest and\ncleanest connection possible.\n\nThese modems come with a lifetime warranty and free lifetime tech\nsupport (and the call is free, too) from AT&T.\n\nThey also include the lovely and talented QuickLink II for DOS and the\nNEW QuickLink II for Windows communications and fax software which\nwill let you conveniently sent faxes from any DOS or Windows\napplication just by printing. The Windows version will send faxes of\nany font and can include graphics, etc. The DOS version can fax\ngraphics and a limited set of fonts (I believe that there are 5 or so,\nas well as any HP Laser II resident fonts).\n\nI'm asking $210.00 for this modem (plus Utah tax). This is at or\nbelow the prices of any other (reputable) manufacturer of an\nequivalent modem (including Zoom, US Robotics, etc). And, it is\nbacked by a company that will never go away.\n\nThis price will include delivery if you live within 20 miles of\ndowntown SLC. I can also arrange shipping, or you can stop by my home\nto pick it up. (If you're concerned about installing an internal\nmodem, let me know and we can discuss an arrangement for including\ninstallation.)\n\nIf you're interested, please let me know. This is an excellent modem\nat an excellent price (they normally list for ~$500 and retail for\nabout ~$300). I installed one of these last week and it is very nice.\n\nIf you have questions about this, AT&T has an info number at \n(800) 554-4996, or you can email me and I will attemp to answer them.\n\nThe modem will go to the highest bidder I get within the next week.", "I'm looking for a way to get our company logo onto documents and \nfigure the easiest way is to put it into a font. Are there any public\ndomain programs that can do this? Is there any shareware that \nwill do this?\n\nAny help is appreciated.\n\nPaul", "\n\nThere are two more reasons to save old databooks and then beyond two\nyears--obsoleted parts and better application notes and tutorials.\n\nWhen a part is dropped from future production planning, such as the\nNational MM-series white noise generators, camera sync generators, etc.,\nit will disappear from current databooks although it still may be produced\nfor a short time (or be available from stock somewhere). Now, if you\nhave some old plans calling for such a device, or you have a dead\ngadget on your workbench and it has such a part in it, you'll know\nthe functions so you can troubleshoot and substitute as necessary.\n\nThe old GE thyristor data books contain real good tutorials on\nSCR and triac applications that are not found elsewhere, for\nexample.\n\n\nHere, here!...\n\n-- \n--------------------------------------------------------------------\n Dave Medin\t\t\tPhone:\t(205) 730-3169 (w)\n SSD--Networking\t\t\t\t(205) 837-1174 (h)\n Intergraph Corp.\n M/S GD3004 \t\tInternet: dtmedin@catbyte.b30.ingr.com\n Huntsville, AL 35894\t\tUUCP: ...uunet!ingr!b30!catbyte!dtmedin\n\n ******* Everywhere You Look (at least around my office) *******", "---------- cut here ---------- part 03/03\nM2C3,JSG A\\-\\($J7LUS?30XC;16@\"Y DK<(ME<#T(F6;;,3QX\";>?H!80H(\nMGNM U )D@/D&\"!YW0\"R\"CF[;831;&$?0[R0)\nM=\".B4G!M4[% #0CG+@2S-\nMJ2S;MU2Y8(6!:E!=[D@C6+,%R]42K.8%%$F\"<2S+#JC*%JQLXN:4@N&F:AL'\nM%&0+I@&-6S7B7:Z,$UEV(JC&K:&:PT,UJYU0[7FHYO10S?&AFGUT;\\'JH5J8\nM9<>&:G'Z7<=RJ-:T'1NJA9F^X]EW/-NQ\nMH=KX4,U#H9IS0C77A6H^\"-5<%*JY'50S2'.JSE#-(:\":!T(U-X5J;@[5'!2J\nMV;)?&2I4NPZJN2E4([&A&MS3/M89JGDY5+.YO:PS5\".VO2PG5'-\\J.8F4,V&\nM_&S\\-IYYEV5#M JCF!5#-G:$:L>]O]OVM.U1S8JAFRQ[7\nM':JYM8]&9D,UKX9JC@S5G!>J.394H9O=N]QRJN3-4\\WC'YW6&:EX+U?P#\nMJMF2/&\\\\5/, K@[NHP&.X-4H%@3Q:@#KHP&85Z,^&N+5 & ^&F9K@/^S-<\"/\nMQK,U4IRMD>QL#1#CV1HISM8 UVC/UN#MV1K<3?6PW6P-?#=;@^]F:P!M99BM\nM03^P-7]@:][-UL\"?LS7 [&9KCLW6P!.S-9*8K9'$;,V)V1J0\"J]7 P HX-5H\nMV -) _AH[('%

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X#')BGVZ;4IH0&ALA8RL%NA[69P[ =@MV.SD[2\nM)=X''8-P-VQ)9](D'FE4#TN<@X5Q#@8*RR\";*!B&X.DY\\4)[!!0 IHPW @,%!&\";\nM.-\"D !,.!\"D01 .)=B0+19B-B)493+Y;$,[.9@J7$45HR:4/Z%DE3@\"KQ+D0C&2]2<1O<-W$(\nMQA HL94,A1&=)8'H>9 %%QT/B\"$06!:1*?N*;J83NHDL7OZ)=T\\2\\7FA%]#%4T'(OF=2!AEF[73V0 M;6[&\\\"KQ\"H)=\nM,*,P]Q>!-U%4>%/MPZT38^I[.L8.0IJA/P;$>1ET%AW\\>X8-\\X6)X(9V-%)@\nMUWPOB7U*FS6^WZFF7R1C.C@2Q DL#3T(E>TM8^B&&TW*=]VE#)YNF*X@<[JT\nMD33*)W:V]88D)N*V;=Z@/4&FD%M:9,_$\nM'$+T'@S#DI\"^@='/*(O139:C\\%2)RT%>ARAVX,34\nM)&]DD3.SM@G',6=!/%D;)3F*$@38D\"#\"%J]9]CK0(J0\"(P\\<55!: ,/8L\"\".\nM0AG0Y%X\\A&B*+$=&I4R\"'A@<1M\"FTS >@T3)5QI! GY*9O$>16:%VVGQ/7 \"\nM:9',;^IN0@D@@K SP**1%EJ6,(UQ\":_(/K-#S)JU10,$$,P# I0ZD\"E! <5\\\nM((#A21LD\"&\"XXPM$.]Z\"!@&:%'#\\08#5!6HDB!!@9()V#28$N'/ \\0J*^4* \nM1P4MN?)T =3YF:B3AS4$L#! H ! .1Y\"QG%.9*0Y /@ , 3T5-\nM4T5455 N24Y&.T\" \"$+FC9@R(*\"\\F4-GRA@Y:>#0 4$$HITR>*$BI0G3%P4P5(DY\\XF;\\BD,9.F#!D04$'0*<,0A(LK\nM4(B@3>-QH L03,K8R>,UIU\\%6UJZ(*,WS9@R77+:T %ERA I2:!0<4%$BA46\nMB]GHD3/3!HRW<5F((#(T#!PY8>N,H3,'KQ8I(#K# &&'Q@T7,$1H'%W$2I(A\nM1:9 *3(DB9'?(OX\"4$L! @H \"@ 8 \\DH+&6P>WN!P!0 :Q0 L \nM @ \\#$ $Q:4C$R-C N5U!$4$L! @H \"@ 8 0!EJ&$ER## M\nMMP$ $,8$ L @ B3< %!30U))4%0N1%)64$L! @H \"@ \nM $ Y'D+&<4YDI#D ^ P 0 @ W^X! $]%35-%5%50\n:+DE.1E!+!08 P # *P #M[P$ \n \nend\n---------- cut here ----------", "#\n#Does XDM work with DECnet? I have an Ultrix machine running both TCP/IP\n#and DECnet. I have a number of X-terminals hanging off the Ultrix host also\n#running TCP/IP and DECnet. Presently I am using XDM for the login procedure\n#on the X-terminals using TCP/IP. Since XDM is basically just an X-windows\n#client, shouldn't I be able to run XDM on the DECnet protocol tower as well?\n#\n\nXDM is not just an X Window client. XDM has its own protocol (XDMCP) that\noperates of UCP on port 177. It does provide a Login window which is an\nX Window Client. As to using DECnet protocol. Looking through the source\nfor XDM from X11R5 that I have here, it seems that the bare bones code is\nthere but not completely there.\n\n#\n#My first inclination is that XDM is not your typical X client. It is making\n#TCP/IP specific socket calls. In this case the answer would be no; you can\n#not run XDM over DECnet. Is this right or not? Any feedback is appreciated.\n#Thanks.\n#\n\nFrom my look at the source, it seems you cannot run it over DECnet as shipped\nwith X11R5.\n\nPatrick L. Mahan\n\n--- TGV Window Washer ------------------------------- Mahan@TGV.COM ---------", "I've just started programming with the PIC16c57 and I'd like talk to similar\nlike minded people ? Have you built anything interesting, if so, I'd be\ninterested in talking about various aspects.\n\nYes, I already have the application sheets, assembler & simulator.\n\nCheers,\n\nStuart\n", "Approximately four months ago, I purchased a Quantum 240LPS HD from La Cie for\n$649. After two months, the drive started having problems. First, there were\nintermittent freezes, then corrupted files and resources, then Silverlining\n5.41 wouldn't even recognize the drive. So I got an RMA from La Cie and\nexchanged the new drive for a reconditioned one.\n\nWell, about a month has passed now and the second drive is having problems.\nOften, when I boot up my IIsi I get the flashing question mark. Sometimes, if I\nthen insert the Silverlining (5.42) program I can get it to recognize the drive\nby making it scan over and over for drives. At that point I can restart the\nIIsi and boot from the HD. I've called La Cie again and they've given me\nanother RMA. Their tech support people tell me that if Silverlining doesn't see\nthe drive there's a definite hardware problem.\n\nGiven that this is the second bad drive in four months, I asked La Cie to send\nme a *new* one, but they said \"no.\" Also, within three weeks after I purchased\nmy original drive, La Cie dropped the price on it by over $100.\n\nI can accept that a drive (or two) may be bad. And I know that hardware vendors\nmake a practice of sending reconditioned replacements when they do repairs. And\nI understand that the nature of the computer industry lends itself to sudden\nprice fluctuations. Nevertheless, taken together, the convergence of these\nfacts/events have left a bad taste in my mouth. (I should have added above that\nwhen I asked La Cie to transfer the contents of my current drive to the one\nthey will send_I think the data is still in good shape and I'll have to again\nreinstall everything from floppies_they said it would cost me $250 for data\nrecovery.)\n\nIt seems to me that reconditioned hardware should be sold as reconditioned at a\ndiscounted price, and that replacements for new hardware gone bad (still\ncovered under a 90-day warranty) should be new. \n\nI feel a little helpless about all this. I don't mean to necessarily flame La\nCie_their support staff have always been friendly and sometimes even helpful.\nBut c'mon. Sometimes a little extra customer service goes a long way. (I sent\na letter to La Cie's customer service when the first drive was returned and I\nasked them for a credit on the price difference since I had purchased the drive\nthree weeks before they slashed the price. I told them I would like to apply\nthe credit toward the purchase of another La Cie product. They didn't even \nhave the courtesy to reply one way or the other.)\n\nWhat's the moral of this story? I'm not sure. But I do know I won't buy any\nother products from La Cie in the future.\n\nBill Krauthammer\nf2ehg786@umiami.ir.miami.edu", "Re: The 25MHz IIsi", "\n I would also be interested in the application here. I work with a Dance and\n Technology program, and want to build something to track dancers on a 30 foot\n wide stage from 50 feet away.\n\n\nCould make for some interesting choreography... light and sound could be \ncontrolled directly by the position of a dancer on stage, or by the number\nof dancers on stage. Neat.\n\nYou could even build a spotlight that follows the dancer around on stage!\n\nCan you tell us more about what you're doing? Sounds like a very cool program.", "\n\nSince running any GUI over a network is going to slow it down by a\nfair amount, I expect Windows NT will be multiuser only in the sense\nof sharing filesystems. Someone will likely write a telnetd for it so\none could run character-based apps, but graphics-based apps will have\nto be shared by running the executables on the local CPU. This is how\nthings are shaping up everywhere: client-server architectures are\ntaking over from the old cpu-terminal setups. \n\nNote that the NeXT does this: you can always telnet into a NeXT and\nrun character-based apps but you can't run the GUI. (Yeah, I know\nabout X-Windows, just haven't been too impressed by it...)..\n\n\n\n\n\n\n-- ", "For Sale:\n\nVCR - Samsung VR2610 basic 2 head machine. It has a problem loading the tape,\notherwise it plays and records just fine, remote is missing. $25 or make offer.\n\nCassette deck - Pioneer CT-F900, three head, servo control, dolby. This was\nthe top of the line (or close to it) several years ago. The rewind doesn't\nwork well. All else is fine. Service & owners manual included. $45 or offer.\n\nGenerator - 120 VAC 2000-2500 watt, has a voltmeter w/duplex outlet, a 5 hp\nengine should drive it to full output. Manufactered by Master Mechanic in\nBurlington Wisconsin. $50 or make an offer\n\nEICO Model 625 tube tester. $20 or make offer\n\nLawn spreader - Scott \"precision flow\" model PF-1 drop type, excellent\ncondition, ideal for a smaller yard. $20 or make offer.", ": \n: Why can't he record it legally? It may not be admissable in court, but\n: recording for personal use is legal. If he wants to play it for his ham\n: friend, that's legal too, as long as he doesn't charge admission.\n\nYeah - I goofed - a slip of the mind. I must be getting senile.\n\n... deleted ...\n\n: Hey Bill, where were you three weeks ago when all this stuff was posted\n: and dealt with?\n\nBusy posting on about 20 other groups. I get to this one about once every\nthree months or so. ", "I am just beginning to try using the Athena toolkit and am having some problems \ngetting started. I think that some files are missing on the system, but there is\nthe possibility that they are just in a different directory. When I try to link\nmy program it can't find XtInitailize, XtRealizeWidget, XtMainLoop, \nXtCreateManagedWidget, or commandWidgetClass. I've included Intrinsic.h and\nCommand.h. I also had a problem on compile with XtNcallback but replaced that with\na NULL in order to compile and see if there were any other problems. I haven't \nused a toolkit before and this is simply an example I got from the manuel. Can\nsomeone tell me where I might look for these calls, that is, in what file not what\ndirectory they are supposed to be under because the system manager doesn't believe\nin standard directories and generally does things his own way. (I am using UNIX)\n\nThank you for your assistance.", "\nGlad to hear that it's working for you!\n\nI couldn't find it on \"export\". However, Simon Leinen\n has added an Imakefile and an Athena\nversion, and made it available for FTP in the file\nliasun3.epfl.ch:/pub/X/contrib/xrpc.tar.z. (Note the \".z\"\nsuffix; you'll need GNU gzip -- also on liasun3 in /pub/gnu --\nto uncompress it.) \n\nIf this doesn't work, send me a note and I'd be happy to mail you\na copy; but you probably won't get it until the start of May --\nI'm on holidays as of tomorrow! :-)\n\n-- \nMartin Janzen janzen@mprgate.mpr.ca (134.87.131.13)\nMPR Teltech Ltd. 8999 Nelson Way Burnaby, BC, CANADA V5A 4B5\n", "I am interested in finding 3D animation programs for the Mac.\nI am especially interested in any programs that don't exist\nin a PC port and are so good that they would make me go buy\na Mac. Do any such exist?", "I have an Ethernet card that i took out off an old LC. The card\n\tis manufactured by Asante. On it i can read:\n\t\"Asante Tech, inc. Copyright 1991. MACCON + LC REV.B\".\n\tThe card has an fpu socket on it. It provides thin Ethernet connector\n\tand there's another connector on it which resembels to phone connectors.\n\n\tMy questions are:\n\t- Will this card work on any other model than LC-serie ?, given that\n\tit's a PDS card, will it work with the IIsi PDS slot ?. I think there\n\tmay be a probleme because the LC has 16 bit wide slots.\n\n\t- What's that other conncetor on the card ?.\n\n\t_ Is anyone interested in it ?. I can ship it to any CEE country.\n\n", "The Duo's can drive Apple's 16\" monitor at 832x624 resolution and\n256 colors, I think. What non-Apple 16-17\" monitors can also be\nused? Would a multisync NEC-5FG work as well at the same resolution?\nWhat are the outstanding points of the Apple monitor when compared\nwith these other monitors?", "Perusing through my Windows 3.1 directory, I came across a file\ncalled REGLOAD.EXE. I assume this is part of the registration\ndatabase, but neither my Windows manual, Win Resource Kit, nor\nPC Mag's description of files in the Windows directory had a\nreference to it. At least not one that I could find. Does\nREGEDIT.EXE use it? Or am I way off base?\n", "*********************Sony B+W Watchman TV*********************\n\nSony B+W 2.5 inch TV. It is in excellent condition. It has not\nbeen used much at all, thus why I am selling it. It gets great $60\nreception. It sells new for $100 so I am asking $60. It is small\nenough (3\"x6\"x2\") that you can carry it around anywhere.\n\nPlease e-mail to jbell@eecom.gatech.edu \n-- ", "WHATS THIS 680x1024 256 color mode? Asking a lot of your hardware ?", "I remember, back before commercial mikes with the \"PZM\" label (for\nPressure Zone Microphone) started showing up, I read an article,\nin some engineering journal, that described the principles involved.\nAll the physics aside, from a practicle standpoint the author's said\nthey built a prototype with nothing more than a small Sony lavelier\nmike laid up against a large aluminum disk. In demonstrating it at\na presentation to audio engineers, this was impressive enough that\nthe people present were bugging them about where they could buy them.\n\nAnyway...I want to build some to use as \"choir mikes\" (wide coverage).\nI've had good luck using some small electret mike elements I got\nfrom Digi-Key - most of these are limited-bandwidth, peakey units\nbut for a buck or two more I got the ones spec'd to go out to 20kHz\nwith a bit flatter response. \n\nThe distance of the mike opening from the flat plate is kind of\ncritical. I'm debating whether to mount it on it's side, which\nputs the opening a shade under 2mm from the plate, or mounting\nit with the opening actually pointing down into the plate at a\nsmall clearance. I haven't dissected a unit like you can buy at\nRadio Shack to see how they do it. Thoughts?\n\n", "This past winter I found myself spending a ridiculous amout of time in front\nof my computer. Since my eyes were going berserk, I decided to shell out\nsome serious money to upgrade from a 14\" to a 17\" monitor. I'm running\n800x600 at 72 Hz. My eyes are very grateful. However, I find myself using\na smaller font with less eye strain. Has anyone else had this kind of \nexperience? I thought that small fonts were the culprit but it seems that\nflicker was my real problem. Any comments?", "Does any one out there have experience with Planet X, I am\nconsidering buying it to use on a SPARCstation IPC, in this\nway I can run Mac programs from the SPARC.\n\nWould you recommend buying this piece of Software and what is\nthe emulation on the SPARC like? Does it give a window of a\nMac or does it give a window of just the individual programs?\n\nAny information would be greatly appreciated.\n\nThanks,\n\nDean", "Due to the large amount of request for 3dbench of ET4000/W32,\nI finally can get a 3dbench v1.0 from a ftp site.\n\nThe 3dbench of ET4000/W32 in my Cardex W32 card with 1MB DRAM\nhas superscape benchmark of 26.3 frames/sec.\n\nHope it will satisfy people curiosity of this ET4000/W32 performance.\nWhat other benchmark program result you would want to know? 8-)", "Two Jack LaLlane GOLD memberships are for sale by the owners.\nAsking for $600 for each membership. \n\nPlease contact Padma & Srini at (908) 855-8865 for details.", "If you can find a copy of \"8088 Assembler Language Programming: The IBM PC\"\nby Willen and Krantz, 2nd ed. pub. by Sams, there is a discussion of the\ngame control adapter, monostable multivibrators, and conversion to other\nuses, as well as an assembler program. If you need greater accuracy, there\nis no reason you couldn't modify the approach to suit your needs.", "\nThose chimes indicate a hardware failure of some type during System startup.", "I'm interested in find out what is involved in processing pairs of \nstereo photographs. I have black-and-white photos and would like \nto obtain surface contours.\n\nI'd prefer to do the processing on an SGI, but would be interested\nin hearing what software/hardware is used for this type of\nimage processing.\n\nPlease email and/or post to comp.sys.sgi.graphics your responses.\n\nThanks,", "The title says it all. Contact me via EMAIL if you would can help me out...\n\nMike Harpe\nUniversity of Louisville\n\nP.S. I KNOW IT IS DISCONTINUED. I want someone who would like to sell\n an old copy.", "I have an external drive connected to my IIsi. This is never\nrecognized and mounted on system startup. I can mount it with\nthe SCSI control panel. I'm running system 7.0.1, and everything\nis properly terminated. Would anyone have a helpful idea at to \nthe problem? \n\n", "What do I need to do to configure this drive as a slave?\nModel# CP30101G\n\nPlease reply via e-mail. Thanks!!", "\nSince I don't think Tom always gets time to read this group, I'll take the\nliberty of responding to some of this. If you really want Tom to reply\nyou should send mail to support@qdeck.com.\n\nA 64k line is certainly going to restrict you far more than the 10mbps\nethernet that we typically run. How restrictive it will be depends on \nwhat you run and how you run it. I would think that a couple of instances\nof some really nasty program like \"Smoking Clover\" would make the link \nuseless for anyone else. On the other hand, probably 50 xclocks quietly\nupdating every 10 seconds or so wouldn't impact it too much. In the real\nworld, you will be somewhere in between these two extremes.\n\nGoing by the way I personally use X on a daily basis, I wouldn't want to have\nto share that 64k link with more than 3-4 other people.\n\n\nOur corporate WAN is as unique as any other. The usage patterns are not very\ngood predictors of how yours will behave. The only one of our low bandwidth\nlinks that normally get used in this way is a 56k link to Ireland that they\noften use to run a DOS text based client end of a client-server database \nremotely from the DVX machine behind me. Since the server end is (or was) always\nat this end (California) it is faster to remotely run the client via DESQview\nX and have a short hop to the server than running the client locally and having\na long hop to the server. As I warned you, this tells us very little about\nhow you usage pattern will fill a 64k ISDN link.\n\nRunning Word for Windows remotely is going to itself be very usage dependent.\nLet's break it into pieces and look at it. Tracking the mouse pointer is easy\nand efficient to translate from Windows calls into X. Popping up a menu is a\nlittle more involved and will generate some traffic. Restoring the screen\nthat was covered by that menu may be easy and may not be. Does the server\nthat it's displaying on have backing store? If so and the server had enough\nmemory the display can be updated locally and will generate little network\ntraffic. If no backing store, then what was being covered up? If it was a \nsolid colored rectangle of space we can tell your xserver to draw that quite\neasily. If it was a full color backdrop of Ren & Stimpy we may have to send\nit back to the X server bit by bit. DVX will do its level best to only redraw\nthat small area, but in some unusual cases the entire screen may need to be \nrepainted. Assuning a 1024x768 screen with 4 bits per pixel that's 3145728 bits\nthat has to be sent. Worst possible case you're looking at about 50 seconds.\nIn reality it would never be this bad since the screen will always have parts \nthat will be tranlatable into higher level X calls.\n\n\nX was designed from the ground up to be efficient across a network. It's \npretty good for this. X programs are best, DOS text programs are almost\nas good (since we conert them to X easily). Something like WinX is a hybrid.\nWe intercept the calls Windows makes to it's graphics driver/ mouse driver\nkeyboard driver and convert them to X. The calls Windows is making are in\nno way designed to be efficient on a packet switched network. We go to a \nlot of trouble to convert them to the highes level Xlib calls we can, but\nwe are somewhat limited because we only know what Windows and its applications\ntell us.", "I've got a 4PR1000A (EIMAC) unused transmitter tube for sale. Best offer\nso far is $125. That's getting close to what I'll sell it for.\nHamfest prices have been about $200 - $250. It works, guaranteed.\nOriginal packaging.\n-- \n--------------------------------------------------------------------\n Dave Medin\t\t\tPhone:\t(205) 730-3169 (w)\n SSD--Networking\t\t\t\t(205) 837-1174 (h)\n Intergraph Corp.\n M/S GD3004 \t\tInternet: dtmedin@catbyte.b30.ingr.com\n Huntsville, AL 35894\t\tUUCP: ...uunet!ingr!b30!catbyte!dtmedin", "I am looking for a program that is capable of displaying a graph\nwith nodes and links and with the possibility to edit interactively\nthe graph : add one node, change one link etc...\n\nActually, a very _simple_ X11 program would be ok; all I need is to\nput some \"boxes\" (i.e. the nodes ) on a pane and be able to\nmanipulate them with the mouse (move, add or delete boxes).\n\nDoes anyone know if such program is available ?\nThanks for any help !!\n", "Trying to pin point a hardware problem with my disk, Maxtor\n7213AT. Group files get corrupted on a regular basis.\nOnly happens on this drive, D had only one corrupt file\nin over a year and it was under the control of winword on C.\n32-bit disk access and smartdrive are off. Since installation\nof dblspace problem has turned from an annoyance to a reason for\nmurder.\n\nSince the most frequent files corrupted are the *.grp files,\nare these the last thing written to when exitting Windows?\n\nAlso, are there any pd/shareware utilities available that do\na more thorough job than dos 6, NDD 4.5, etc? DOS 6 and \nWin 3.1 compatable.\n\nThanks", "I am considering creating a \"demo\" for the IBM PC for my band.\nI would like to combine interesting graphics and a sample of \nmy music in the program. I have seen things like this\ndone for other platforms, and even a few for the PC, but since\nI'm completly new to this, I have no idea wher to start.\nI'm pretty sure that I am not skilled enough to put this \ntogether, but I was hoping that you (collectivly) could\nA. Let me know what issues I need to worry about, things I\n Should take into consideration when developing the \n concept.\nB. Perhaps someone knows of a programmer/artist who would be interested\n in this type of a project.\n\nI know these are rather broad questions, but any information\nwould be most helpful. Thanks!!\n", "Figured it out. The answer lies in mit/server/ddx/mfb/mfbcustom.h.", "\nMy impression -- it's not an area I've played with much -- is that the\nmuch-beloved NE567 is basically obsolete. If you want to detect a 1kHz\ntone, set a switched-capacitor filter chip to that frequency, feed your\ninput to it, and see if anything comes out the other end. The NE567 was\nwhat you used when good clean bandpass filters were hard to do; nowadays\nthey're easy, and the results are better.", "\n ...\n\n\n\nWhat problems have you had with UHC? I have been using their OS for 2 years\nand have had very few problems.", "This may sound like a simple-minded question, but this is the first time\nI've ever had a need for this:\n\nI've been designing some relatively simple chip circuits based on things\nlike photoresistors (you know, no light to photoresistor, emit a logic\nhigh, etc.).\n\nAnyway, I've got some servos lying around, and I wanted to do some things\nwith them using digital logic. I know all about having to pulse the signal\nand everything, I just have one problem: I'm assuming I need a negative\n(yes, negative) logic high to get the thing to turn in the direction \nopposite the direction it would turn under normal logic high.\n\nIs a negative logic high (I've seen this in schematics) the same thing as\nan active low, or what? I'm not using a bi-polar power source, so how\nwould I get a negative logic high out of this thing? I need to have all\nthree signals available: Logic high, logic low, and negative logic high.\n\nAny help would be greatly appreciated. Also, please reply via email, as I\nnever seem to have time to read this (or any other) group lately.\n\nThanks much,\n-mark", "\nIBM has displayed a 486DX3/99 as a *TECHNOLOGY DEMO*.\n\nThis effectivly means - \"here's some neat technology\". It is not\na commitment to make such an item...\n\n\nGuy", "\n\nFor Logitech rodents use the lmouse driver that comes with windows....\nalso you need to be using a video driver that supports use of the mouse,\nboth the VGA and SUPERVGA that come with Windows 3.1 will support it. \nboth of these are 16 color drivers, if you're lucky the manufacturer of\nyour video card might have a driver that is compatable and will support a\nmouse. \n\nSteve\n", "They need a hit software product to encourage software sales of the product,\ni.e. the Pong, Pacman, VisiCalc, dBase, or Pagemaker of multi-media.\nThere are some multi-media and digital television products out there already,\nalbeit, not as capable as 3DO's. But are there compelling reasons to buy\nsuch yet? Perhaps someone in this news group will write that hit software :-)\n", "Walther,\nI'd have a look at the maximum resolution the combination of the video card\nand screen would have without flickering. I'd only suggest using the color\nscreen if it does 800*600 without flickering. If this is not too small for\nyour tastes at a 14\"....\nPersonally I'd prefer the mono-screen as I always have quite a few windows\nopen. If you only run one program at a time or rarely switch maybe the\ncolor 'surplus' is worth trading in the smaller size. If you want to\ndevelop programs you will always have to check the colors. I used a\n14\" mono screen (worst of both worlds) and was surprised how the colors looked\nI choose on a color screen.", "What is Pink noise and how is it used in sound experiments?\n-tony\n wayne@uva386.schools.virginia.edu\n\n", "From: payne@crl.dec.com (Andrew Payne)\nMessage-ID: <1993Apr20.004418.11548@crl.dec.com>\nOrganization: DEC Cambridge Research Lab\nDate: Tue, 20 Apr 1993 00:44:18 GMT\n\n\nDoes anyone know if a source for the TCM3105 modem chips (as used in the\nBaycom and my PMP modems)? Ideally, something that is geared toward \nhobbyists: small quantity, mail order, etc.\n\nFor years, we've been buying them from a distributor (Marshall) by the\nhundreds for PMP kits. But orders have dropped to the point where we can\nno longer afford to offer this service. And all of the distributors I've\nchecked have some crazy minimum order ($100, or so).\n\nI'd like to find a source for those still interested in building PMP kits.\nAny suggestions?\n\n-- \nAndrew C. Payne\nDEC Cambridge Research Lab\n---\n . R110B:Wnet HAL_9000\n ", "Does anybody know anything about the chips D6275A/D6235A/D6205A chips from\nDSP Telecommunications Inc?\n\nI'd greatly appreciate information about price, pinouts and peripherals.\n\nRegards,\n\n Henrik Bohre", "I am looking for a printer utility which stay in Window 3.1 as an icon and\nlet you drag a file to it to issue the printing.\n", "Ranma 1/2 pt2 professionally converted to play on SNES. Asking $60 or \nwilling to trade for SNES: SimEarth or Dragonball Z", "\n-- \n\nTry MetaCard - a HyperCard-like programming environment on X.\n", "Sorry about the garbage code, the following is used of course:\n\nXSetForeground(Disp, PixGC, BackgroundColor);\nXFillRectangle(Disp, Pixs, PixGC, 0, 0, Scr_width, Scr_height);\nXSetForeground(Disp, PixGC, ForegroundColor);\nXDraw[Line|String|Rectangle](Disp, Pixs, PixGC, ...);\nXCopyArea(Disp, Pixs, Win, PixGC, 0, 0, Win_width, Win_height, 0, 0);\n\nJuergen Schietke\nResearch Insitute for Discrete Mathematics\nUniversity of Bonn\nNassestr. 2\n5300 Bonn 1", "How do I get a subscription to MacWeek. I want one, but I don't seem to be able\nto find a subscription card anywhere.", "I am wondering if anyone has any opinions about the 2theMAX 4000S\nSVGA card. I just purchased one due to a great price on it. It boasts 16.7\nmillion \"true\" colors, with 1MB onboard. If you know anything about this \ncard, please respond via mail, as this group tends to be overwhelming at\ntimes with posts. Thanks in advance!!!\n \n", "\nAre you using Fastopen? If you are, disable it. We had a lot\nof problems with fastopen corrupting weird things (including\nthe Windows permanent swap file) when we were using it.\n\n\nIndeed they are. Advanced Personal Measure tells me they are accessed\njust before shell.dll\n\n\nI really like Spinrite and QA Plus", "The idea is to clip one polygon using another polygon (not\nnecessarily rectangular) as a window. My problem then is in\nfinding out all the new vertices of the resulting \"subpolygons\"\nfrom the first one. Is this simply a matter of extending the\nusual algorithm whereby each of the edges of one polygon is checked\nagainst another polygon??? Is there a simpler way??\n\nComments welcome.", "I am looking for any information about the Sigma Designs\n\tdouble up board. All I can figure out is that it is a\n\thardware compression board that works with AutoDoubler, but\n\tI am not sure about this. Also how much would one cost?", "\nGawd, I love Windows :-)\n\n\nYou'll probably want to delete any damaged executables and reload them\nfresh. Data files should be examined and repaired.\n\n\nYou're not stupid. Smartdrive caches things, and Windows also runs a\nswap file which may contain data also. All of this is pretty risky\nstuff in a PC environment.\n\n\nA reasonably accurate prediction...\n\n\nHere's a brief description of how DOS stores files:\n\nThere are three pieces to a file. The directory entry, the FAT chain,\nand the data area. You can think of these as a sheet of lined\nnotebook paper, a sheet of graph paper, and a stack of 3X5 cards.\n\nThe directory entry (notebook paper) holds the file name, actual size,\nand first cluster number. It also holds some other information that's not\nimportant right now.\n\nThe File Allocation Table (FAT) chain (graph paper) tells where to find\nthe actual data. Each square of graph paper holds a number. If the\nnumber is zero, the cluster associated with this box is available. If it\nholds a \"magic\" number, it is either the last piece of a file or a bad\n(unuseable) spot on the disk. Any other number tells which cluster\ncontains the next section of the file.\n\nThe data area (3X5 cards) is where the actual information is stored.\nThe data area is organized as clusters of a fixed size; storage is\ndoled out in \"chunks\" of one cluster each. (In your case, one cluster\nis 2048 bytes.) As a cluster is filled, another is allocated.\n\nTo read a file, you first look at the directory entry to get the\nstarting cluster number. Now you read the data from that cluster.\nNext, look at the FAT entry for the cluster you just read. This will\ntell you the cluster number for the next chunk of the file.\nNaturally, these numbers are usually sequential, but they can jump\naround and even go backwards. Continue reading, one cluster at a\ntime, as you walk this chain through the FAT, until you hit the marker\nwhich says it's the last cluster in the file.\n\nCHKDSK is the DOS utility that checks the sanity and coherence of\nthe directories and the FAT and can bludgeon most flaws into\nsubmission. It doesn't have any intelligence, so you have to\ndouble-check anything it \"fixes\".\n\nNow let's do a bit of a post-mortem:\n\n\nAll of these files have sizes (according to the FAT) which don't match\nthe size reported in their directory entries. CHKDSK /F will alter\nthe directory entries to match the FAT size. (In other words, the\ndirectory entry for CVPIC.EXE may say the file is 64,877 bytes long.\nBut CHKDSK found a FAT chain of 43 clusters attached to it. (My numbers,\nobviously, are made up.))\n\n\nDisk space was found which is allocated in the FAT, but is not attached\nto any directory entry. CHKDSK /F gives you the option of converting these\n\"lost chains\" to files. You can then examine the files (FILE0000.CHK\nthrough FILE0223.CHK) and rename or discard them. Or, if you tell\nCHKDSK _not_ to convert them to files, then those clusters will simply\nbe marked \"available\" in the FAT.\n\n\n\n...\n\n\nThese files are both referencing the _same_ data cluster. Obviously,\none of them (at least) must be wrong. It's interesting to note that\nC:\\386SPART.PAR is your Windows swap file...\n\nTo fix this, you should copy each cross-linked file to a new name.\nThis will \"fix\" the cross-link by giving the files unique data spaces.\nNow delete the cross-linked files. Examine the copies and try to\nassemble them properly. Good luck. (Hint: \"Missing pieces\" are\nlikely to be found in those \"lost chains\" at the top...)\n\n\nYour disk is pretty close to full. This may be the actual cause of\nthe problem; perhaps Windows needed to expand its swapfile by an\namount which exceeded available disk space...\n\nIn any case, the short summary is that something trashed your FAT.\nThere are utilities that can mirror your FAT and help repair damage\nafter something like this, but you have to run them _before_ the\nproblem occurs. Sorry.\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------\nGordon S. Hlavenka cgordon@vpnet.chi.il.us\nVote straight ticket Procrastination party Dec. 3rd!\n-- ", "\n8 MB SIMMs do not have to be composite SIMMs, although many (most?) 16 MB \nSIMMs are. 72-pin SIMMs allow two memory banks per SIMM, thus permitting \nthe use of 4 Mb DRAM devices (the same ones used on 4 MB SIMMs) to be used \nfor two 4 MB banks on one SIMM. I can't imagine that it would be cheaper \nto build an 8 MB SIMM using 1 Mb DRAMs as the 4 Mb parts reached (and \nexceeded) bit for bit price parity with the 1 Mb parts some time ago. \nIt's probably possible to build a single-bank 8 MB SIMM using 4 Mb parts - \nthis could cause problems in a Q800. I'm not sure why you'd want to do \nthis, though, as a dual-bank 8 MB SIMM would be cheaper to build than a \nsingle-bank composite one.", "Hello,\n\n\tDoes anyone know of an image format conversion tool that will convert a \nraw (8 bit grey scale) image to Gif or Tif format. It would be great if the tool\nran on a PC, was a Windows application, and supported other formats, but I'll be \nhappy with anything that works.\n\n\n\t\tAttn: Code L10MP Robert LaFollette \n\t\tDahlgren Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center\n\t\tDahlgren, VA 22448-5000", "\nRubbish. The reason for the colour of the boards depends on the solder\nmask that is used. Older boards (bakelite and phenolic) rarely used\na solder mask (these boards are not suited well to automatic stuffing\nand soldering techniques) and hence are the colour of the compound\nused to make them. These days boards are made of fibreglass for most\ngeneral purpose uses and have a solder mask applied to them to prevent\nclose traces shorting to one another during soldering (and also to prevent\nthe decomposition of traces under harsh environments). The light and dark\ngreen boards ofter seen have a \"dry film\" mask applied to them (usually\napplied as a complete film photographically produced). The blue (and red\nor orange) boards are a two-part epoxy or a liquid-imageable resist\nformulation and are applied in a different manner. There's a lot of info\nabout the pro's and con's of each, but that's another story...\n\n Sla/n go fo/ill,\n Risky B.", "I have the following machine for sale:\n\n Zenith 386, 20MHz machine\n 40 MB Hard disk\n 3.5 inch 1.44 MB Floppy drive\n 5.25 1.2 MB Floppy drive\n 2 MB of RAM\n VGA card\n ZCM 1492 FTM (Flat Tension Mask) VGA Color monitor\n Flat screen , Non-Glare\n 101 Key Keyboard, 2 Serial ports, 1 Parallel port\n\n Original manuals that it came with.\n\nIn excellent condition. $1100.00 or best (reasonable) offer.", "I am looking for utilities for converting GIFs/JPEGs/PS etc to xpm format? Any \ninformation appreciated.\n\nThanks,", "I'm looking to buy machinist tools of any kind. If you have\nany or know of any for sale please leave me e-mail and I'll\nget back to you promptly.\n\n\t\t\t\tFrank", "I've had pretty good success autotracing line art with Adobe\nStreamline 2.0. The key to controlling excessive points, etc. is\nto take some time and do some test conversions using various\nTolerance settings.\n\n", "\n\n\n\n\nYou do mean disks, don't you, not tapes? You forgot to say whether you\nwere looking for the old 8\" or the newer 5.25\".\n\nSorry, just use them at work and don't think they would appreciate it.\n", "\n\nI have got an Adaptec SCSI card, that comes with its own version of FDISK.\nThe problem with DOS is that it will only see two hard disks, any more need to be\ndone by device drivers.\n", "Is anyone out there running a MS-DOS system with a LocalTalk board? I am on an\nAppletalk network, hooked up with a DayStar Digital LT200 MC LocalTalk\nInterface Board, running on a PS/2 Model 70. I'm using the AppleShare PC\nsoftware for file server and network access. It works fine under DOS or the\nWindow or OS/2 DOS box. But when I try to load it *before* Windows, so that\nevery application I run could get access to it, the machine crashes hard as\nsoon as I start up an application. And of course, things look pretty hopeless\nfor OS/2 (but who knows). \n\nSo, does anyone have experience with this bizarre and obsolete setup?", "\n\nYour machine will run at whatever the bus is jumpered to/CMOS is set to\n(usually wait states) regardless of what speed RAM is installed. No\nmotherboard can sense the speed of the RAM installed, unless you call\nfailing as a sort of auto-sense. This is how you can sometimes use\n\"slower\" RAM in a machine. You either set the number of wait states to\naccomodate the slow RAM (in which case, all memory will run at that\nslower rate) or you reduce the wait states and take the chance that the\nslower RAM will act like faster RAM and you won't crash.\n\nPutting faster RAM in won't speed things up unless you tell the machine\nit has faster RAM. \n\nMixing fast and slow RAM will not help you if you have to keep the bus \nslowed down to accomodate slow RAM.\n\nJimL\n--------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n-- \nMailer address is buggy! Reply to: jiml@strauss.FtCollinsCO.NCR.com", "\n\n\n\nI have tried that with one font, if your xterm terminfos/termcaps are set up\nto NOT remap bold (which they are be default) to reverse, then nothing happens\nwhen bold is displayed. It would appear (at least in X11R4) than you cannot\ndisplay bold in an xterm without specifying two fonts; a normal and a bold.\nI wish someone would prove that incorrect.", "With your date/time problems, you MIGHT have a problem with the Dallas\nClock Chip (I'm making a possibly bad assumption that your system has\na clock chip and that it's the standard Dallas Clock Chip). I always\nlook at the battery and the clock chip when such things go wrong--\nat least, as the first course of action.\n \nMel. White/Data Services/City of Garland, Texas\n", "...\n\nThis is a common misconception, shared my many manufacturers, programmers,\nand users alike. COM3, for example, is simply the third equipped COMM\nport, not necessarily the one with I/O address 3E8. The BIOS just\nsearches sequentially through a set of potential COMM port addresses. The\nfirst equipped port it finds will become COM1, etc. If you're playing by\nthe rules, you can't have a COM4 unless you have a COM3 equipped. The set\nof \"standard\" (whatever that means) port addresses merely reflects the\norder in which the BIOS searches the I/O address space in its search for\nserial ports.\n\nSo, what you have is indeed COM3 at the non-standard address 2E8. Were\nthis address in the 4th table slot instead, programs which query the BIOS\nto determine the number of installed COMM ports would not find it, as the\nfield in the BIOS data area which contains this number would indicate that\nthere are but 3 COMM ports installed. (Frankly, I don't know of a simgle\nprogram that would actually have a problem with this.)\n", "\t>\n\t>In the UK, it's impossible to get approval to attach any crypto device\n\t>to the phone network. (Anything that plugs in to our BT phone sockets\n\t>must be approved - for some reason crypto devices just never are...)\n\t>\n\n\tWhats the difference between a V.32bis modem and a V.32bis modem?\n\n\tI'm not being entirely silly here: what I'm pointing out is that the\n\tmodems that they have already approved for data transmission will work\n\tjust fine to transmit scrambled vocoded voice.\n\nAbsolutely. I just meant that no secure *dedicated* crypto device has\never been given approval. Guerrilla underground devices should be well\npossible with today's high-speed modems (not that I can think of many v32bis\nmodems that are approved either mind you - just the overpriced Couriers)\n\nCan someone tell me if hardware compression is or is not needed to run\ndigital speech down 14.4K? I think it is; I've heard it's not. Lets\nsay 8 bit samples. Would *raw* data at the corresponding sampling rate\nbe usable? If not, how fancy does the compression need to be?", "\n\nAnd for the Commodore CDTV.\n", "\nI believe the beta version of the service is available via ftp on \nftp.cica.indiana.edu\nin pub/pc/win3/nt called something like nwnt.zip\n\nThere is an INDEX ascii file there, which lists the programs in that directory\nand what they do.\n\nunfortunately this beta will also disable netbeui and tcp/ip over your\nprimary nic, so if you really want to run it, get yourself an extra nic and\nbind it to that. \n\nOtherwise wait for next release, like I am.", "Those VHS movies have to be sold because I am moving in 6 weeks.\nAnd I have no idea what happend to those people who made the\ndeal with me before. So here I am, trying to post another message, \nagaint. ( I don't mean to waste your valuable time.)\n\nBasic Instinct\t\t\t$11.00\nBorn on the Forth of July\t$11.00\nBackdraft\t\t\t$11.00\nPresumed Innocent\t\t$11.00\nThe Prince of Tides\t\t$11.00\nDance of Wolves\t\t\t$11.00\n\nAll the prices are including shipping. You get all of them for\n$60.00. \n\nPackage deals are very welcome...\n\nSo make me an offer...", "\nAnyone claiming that 1500 \"real watts\" isn't possible in a mobile should\ndig through their back issues of 73 (and, I think, QST) for a description\nof the mobile installation of that most revered of OMs, W6AM. As I recall,\nthis included a Heath 1kW (DC in) amp (what was that model number...SB-\nsomething.... my mind is turning to the usual Friday mush...) and was run \nfull-out CW fairly regulary. The car's electrical system had been modified, \nincluding a rather seriously-heavy-duty alternator, but such an installation \nHAS been done, and so IS possible. This installation was the source of\nthe legendary story of W6AM sitting in the car, and paging his wife over the\ndepartment store PA systems!\n", "\nThere were an assortment of firmware problems, but that is pretty much\nexpected with any FAX/modem talking with a different FAX or modem\nwhich may have also been revised or is new. I'm pretty much\noblivious to any current firmware problems, so you'll have to get it\nfrom someone else.\n\nHowever, I can tell you to stay clear of any board which uses the\nRockwell MPU (as opposed to the DPU) for an internal implementation.\nThis is because the MPU used \"speed buffering\" instead of having a\n16550 interface. Without the 550 interface, the number of interrupts\nare still the same and thus may get dropped under multitasking\nconditions (like in windows). As far as I know, the \"speed buffering\"\nworks OK for external modems if a 550 is used on the internal serial\nport board.\n\nHope this helps...\nTom\n", "In case anyone was wondering about upgrading their 386 or 486 class machine\nwithout spending a lot of money, I looked into replacing the processor\non those machines and here are the facts (as I understand them).\n\nIf you have a PS/2 Model 70 or Model 80, you can replace the i386 chip with\neither 1) a Cyrix 486DLC chip for $130 which will increase your processing\npower by about 60% for normal fuctions, and not at all for math functions.\nThis chip will only run at your original clock speed, ie. if you have a 16MHz\nmachine the Cyrix 486DLC will run at 16MHz.\nnote: Windows does not use the math functions, so it is a good upgrade if\nyou are running Windows.\nOr, 2) you can get a Kingston 486/NOW platform for $450 with a 25MHz i486SX\non it which will increase your normal processing power by about 100%, if you\nwere running at 25MHz originally. But again it will not increase the speed\nof your math fuctions. I think that it will continue to run at 25MHz even\nif your original processor runs at a slower speed.\nThere is also 3) the Kingston 486/NOW platform for $750 with a 33MHz i486DX\non it. This might speed up your math functions as well, but I am not sure.\n\nIf you have a PS/2 Model 70 B21 or other PS/2 machine with either an i486SX\nor a non-clock doubling i486DX (ie. it runs at either 25 or 33MHz) in it,\nthen you can get an Intel Overdrive chip (which is really an i486DX2 chip) and\nreplace your chip with it. You should get about 95% better preformance for\nboth normal and math functions. The 25/50 Mhz version of the Overdrive chip\ncosts $450 and the 33/66MHz version costs $700. The replacement for the\n25MHz 486SX chip is an espeacially good deal as it provides the math\ncoprocessor which the 486SX does not have. Note that the speed ratings on the\nOverdrive chips are the maximum speed at which they can run. If you have a\n20MHz 486SX, then the Overdrive chip will run at 20/40MHz, ie. 20MHz externally\nand 40MHz internally. There is no reason to buy an Overdrive chip which is\nrated at faster then your machine, you will not get faster performance.\n\nYou should be able to buy these chips from any of the microchip merchants that\nadvertise at the back of PC Magazine or PC Week. You might want to shop\naround as prices do vary. If you need a name/phone number for a source for\na particular chip, e-mail me, and I will respond with a couple of sources.\n\nLawrence Khoo\n", "\nIt would depend on the requirements of the poster's data, for some\npurposes 1/256 resolution (with or without calibration curve).\n\n\nOtherwise the other possibilities would be:\n\n1) get a digital voltameter with serial output & connect to serial\nport on mac, collect data with some communications program.\n\n2) Buy an A/D chip from Analog devices, Burr-Brown, etc, connect to\na parallel to serial converter, use serial port for acquisition\n(nah. too much soldering and trouble shooting :-)\n\n3) Get a board from National Instruments, Data Translation, Omega,\netal. The finest solution, but possibly the most costly.\n\n\n\nTo the original poster: if the signal is too large, why not\nuse a voltage divider? Two resistors, cost very cheap...\n-- ", "Recently I posted two oscilliscopes for sale. One has sold, the other is\nstill available:\n Used, good condition:\n Hitachi V-422 40MHz Dual-Channel Portable Analog Oscilliscope\n o 1mV/div\n o DC offset\n o alternate magnification (10x magnified & non-magnified\n waveform)\n o VERT mode trigger\n o TV sync separation circuit\n List price $910.00 (...and the price Fry's electronics just\n quoted!) :-(\n Sells for $699.99 (JDR MicroDevices current price)\n $745.95 (Products International)\n Your price used $425.00 obo\n...I haven't gotten an offer at the asking price, so 'obo' applies...\n\nI also have a 'broken' version of the scope which sold:\n JDR 2000 20MHz Dual-Channel Portable Analog Oscilliscope\n o 5mV/div\n o Component Tester (resistors/caps/diodes/coils)\n o TV video sync filter\n o z-axis input (intensity modulation)\n\n'Broken' means: The CRT produces a nice, bright trace, but the trace does\nnot correspond to the input signal. My guess is it's repairable but more\nthan a simple calibration problem...but I honestly have not tried to\ncalibrate the scope or otherwise fix it. It's 'as-is'.\nI paid $60 for it in its current state (I bought it thinking I'd repair it,\nusing the 'good' scope for side-by-side comparison...since I've sold the\n'good' scope, the 'bad' one doesn't do me much good) and I'd like to recoup\nthat amount. As above, I'll accept offers and take the best one.\n\nI'd prefer a local (Bay Area, California) buyer, so (a) I don't have to\nship it and (b) she or he can examine the scope prior to purchase.", "\nYep. I've done this, too. The trick is to use a tiny screwdriver and push\ndown on the \"latch\" of each pin and then pull it out of the connector. Label\neach one first with tape so you don't get them confused after you've pulled\nthem out. Compare the pinout tables in the Mitsumi and Soundblaster manuals\nto get the correct orientation.\n", "I have a thermal fuse from a Apple Laserwriter II power supply (Made\nby Cannon) that I need to replace. The fuse is not the standard\ntubular thermal fuse like those found in hair driers etc, but is a \nrectangular plastic package, much like a transistor or diode. It\nis about 0.2\"x0.2\"x0.1\", with both leads coming out of one of the\n0.1\"x0.1\" sides. I have been told that it was made by MITI, a asian\ncompany, but I can find no information as to a supplier. This fuse\nis rated at 1A, 130C. Does anyone have a source for this fuse? I\nonly need 5 or so, which means that the manufacturer wouldn't even want\nto talk to me, let alone, deal with me.\n\nPlease advise via E-mail.\n\nThanks,\nPat\n", "I really want to buy a powerbook and would like one that can run \nMathematica. So I need a coprocessor but I can not afford a PB180.\n(who can?) Is it possible to put a MCP in a PB160? The guy at the \nbookstore says no but I didn't think he had too much of a clue.\n\nPlease respond by e-mail: ross@sbphy.physics.ucsb.edu", ": \n: \tI am interrested in the extrodinarily simple concept of the null modem\n: cable. (Actually I have NO idea, so don't count that last statement.) What I'm\n: asking is what pins does it use (or what are it's specifications?) I just want\n: to solder one myself instead of buying one. I don't even know what port is\n: used.\n: \n: Help me please (at ke_kimmell@vax.cns.muskingum.edu)\n: \n: Kevin\n: \n: p.s. I'm intending to use the cable for PC-to-PC transfers (via Lap-Link or\n: Telix. Ideas and info gladly accepted.)\n\nI do not have specific knowledge of Lap-Link or Telix, but my recommendation\nfor ANY package is to follow each one's instructions for making the null-\nmodem cable. The reason is that each one may be different since there isn't\nreally a standard for PC to PC communications. The following is a tutorial\nI wrote up that will give you an understanding about RS-232 and null modems,\nbut you should still check your software!\n\nI will eplain a couple of details of RS-232. RS-232 is\na commumications specification for communicating between a computer and a\nmodem. Actually it can be between any end system and any communications\nhardware. The terminology used is Data Terminal Equipment (DTE) and DATA\nCommunications Equipment (DCE). RS-232 spells out the voltage levels, the\nconnector type, the pinouts, and the signal protocols. The connector is\na \"DB-25\" but IBM has set an alternative \"standard\" of DB-9. The primary\nsignals are Transmit Data (TD), Recieve Data (RD), and Signal Ground (SG).\nThere are other signals that provide control between the DTE and the DCE.\nFor example, the DTE announces that it is powered up and ready to participate\nin communications via the Data Terminal Ready (DTR) signal. DTR is an\noutput on the DTE and an input on the DCE. Similarly, the DCE announces that\nit is ready to participate in communications via the Data Set Ready (DSR)\nsignal. DSR is an input on the DTE and an output on the DCE. Ok that's\nfive signals; there are only four more of interest. The Request To Send (RTS)\nsignal is an output from the DTE (and an input to the DCE) that is used\nto ask the DCE permission to send data. If the DCE agrees, it sends an ok\nvia the Clear To Send (CTS) signal. (For completeness, the CTS is an input\nto the DTE and an output from the DCE). The other two signals (of interest)\nare Ring Indicator (RI) and Data Carrier Detect (DCD). These are both inputs\nto the DTE and outputs from the DCE. RI is just what you would expect -\na signal to the DTE saying that someone is attempting to establish a connection\nto the DCE. This is rather specific to the modem / telephone line setup.\nDCD is a way for the DCE to announce that the \"connection\" has been established\ni.e. the local DCE is talking to some remote DCE. There - that's it. Oh\nthere are many other RS-232 signals defined, but they are obsolete. I have\nexplained the nine signals that are on a PC. The pinouts are as follows:\n\nName DB-9 DB-25\n SG 5 7\n TD 3 2\n RD 2 3\nDTR 4 20\nDSR 6 6\nDCD 1 8\nRTS 7 4\nCTS 8 5\n RI 9 22\n\nNow to address your problem at hand. When you connect a PC to a PC (a DTE\nto a DTE), there is no DCE pair in the middle and therefore the RS-232\nsignal definitions don't work out quite right. There is no DCE to assert\nthe CTS, DSR, DCD, or RI. So the common thing to do is to not use these\nsignals at all - and also forget about the DTR and RTS outputs as well. If\nthis is done you simply make a null modem (a cable) that passes through SG,\nand crosses TD and RD (i.e. pin 2 of one end connects to pin 3 at the other\nend, etc). The problem with this solution is that a PC that wants to send\ndata has no way of knowing if the other PC is ready. It would have to just\nsend the data and hope it got through. Therefore a better null modem would\ninclude the DTR/DSR pair crossed. A particular point a confusion is in the\nsoftware area. Just because you run the wires does not mean that the soft-\nware will use them. If you are using the built-in BIOS to control the\nserial port, then the BIOS dictates what wires you need and how they are to\nbe used. But if you have a comm. package such as Brooklyn Bridge, or Lap-\nLink or Telix, then those packages dictate the cabling requirements. The\nonly thing you can guess reliably is the SG, TD, and RD. The DTR/DSR is also\nfairly common. There is one more issue that needs to be addressed here. And\nthat is flow control. In the RS-232 scenerio, the DCE's are responsible for\nflow control and it is assumed that the DCE couldn't possible over-run the\nDTE. By this I mean that as long as the DTE has its DTR line asserted, the\nDCE will send data - without requesting permission first. Note the contrast\nto the other direction of data flow: the DTE must request permission by\nasserting the RTS line and it must wait for the CTS signal before it can\nsend. And now in the DTE to DTE scenerio, the question is do you need flow\ncontrol? The answser is usually. But how? For non-binary communications,\none common technique is XON - XOFF which is implemented in software - no\nwires are dedicated to flow control; the TD and RD carry the XON and XOFF\ncommands. This type of flow control can be used in addition to hardware\nflow control, but the problem is that you can't send binary data because\nyour data might include the XON or XOFF codes and cause erroneous conrol\nsignals. (A work around is to have the software insert and extract \"escape\"\ncodes, but the hardware flow control is prefered). The problem with hard-\nware flow control is that there is no standard. There are lots of ways to\ndo it and I bet they have all been tried. One cornerstone of all the methods\nis to use the RTS/CTS for one direction. But beyond that anything is fair\ngame. Again, you must look to you comm package for cabling requirements.\nBut I bet you'll find that one cable (if wired properly) could work with\nall of the packages as long as they are of the same vintage. By the way,\nI am familiar with one package that uses RTS/CTS and DTR/DSR for flow control\nthe RTS is request to send and the DTR is ready to recieve, the CTS is the\nclear to send and the DSR is the request to recieve. This does not mean a\ndiffernt cable - it is just software. The clincher to all of this cabling\nstuff is that it is common to have the UART directly controlled by the CTS\nsignal which means that the CTS must be present even if you are not support-\ning it in software. For these cases you will find cables that short the\nRTS to the CTS at the same end (or perhaps the DTR to the CTS). Other\npossible shorting might be done just because the software expects certain\nsignals that you don't have (or don't feel like providing because it would\nmean additional wires). Specifically I am talking about the DSR. Shorting\nthe DTR to the DSR is not a good idea in general but you may find cables like\nthis. It is a bad idea because it defeats the whole purpose. One more\n\"gotcha\" signal is the DCD. Some software (including the PC BIOS) expects to\nsee the DCD before it will work. This signal sometimes gets shorted with the\nDTR. But my favorite null modem has the RTS and CTS shorted at each end, but\nthe RTS is also connected through to the other end and connected to DCD. And\nof course the DTR/DSR are crossed as are the TD/RD and of course the SG must\npass through. This null modem works with most software. The flow control,\nif any, can use the RTS/DCD with the DTR/DSR. If your comm. package does not\nspecify the cable required for PC to PC connection, then I suggest you use\nthis one.\n\n TD ------ RD\n RD ------ TD\n DTR ------ DSR\n DSR ------ DTR\n DCD ------ RTS-\\\n /-RTS ------ DCD |\n \\-CTS CTS-/\n", "\n-- \nMoOLIT (Motif/Open Look Intrinsic Toolkit allows developers to build \napplications that can switch between Motif and Open Look at run-time,\nwhile OLIT only gives you Open Look.\n", "\n There's documentation on how to use the shared memory extension in the\nX11R5 distribution.\n\n Actually, I just finished writing a motif animation program...\n(take-lots-of-image-data-and-display-it-pretty-darn-fast). When using\non-server pixmaps or shared memory, I had to insert a delay loop to keep\nit from going too quickly :). Testing both methods side by side, they\nwere just about equal.\n\n The advantage of SHM is that your X server doesn't grow to ridiculous\nsizes; but pixmaps can work over a network and *are* removed if your\napplication dies (one tends to use ipcrm manually quite a bit when\ndebugging SHM apps).\n\n Shared memory also has the problem that some operating systems (e.g.\nUltrix) seem to allow only a small number of segments (~6) to be\nattached to a process at once; consequently, a redraw becomes\nXShmAttach();XShmPutImage();XShmDetach(); on Dec systems. And Dec's 24\nbit displays (like the ones I tend to use most often) don't seem to\nsupport the extension (maybe someone compiled them wrong?), and using\npixmaps causes the X server to crash (failed mallocs), so one *has* to\nuse the local unix domain socket (which really isn't that bad; one\ncopies the info three times per redraw instead of one).\n\n In short: allowing all three forms of display, within the program is a\nGood Thing (minus SHM if running over a network), and let the user pick\nwhatever feels fastest.\n\n (I just use an ximagehandler class and forget about it :)", "I'm planning to buy a new VLB/EISA system with a good graphic performance.\nSo far I looked at the ATI GUP VLB as my favorite graphics-card. But \nrecently I heard something about a new card from Miro. It was the Miro\nCrystal 24s with 3 MB and True Color support up to 1024x768. It costs just a\nlittle more than the ATI. So, can't decide which one matches better my needs.\nAny technical references and performance comparisons (especially from the\nMiro card) would be greatly appreciated.\n\n-Peter-\n\nE-Mail : kohut1@urz.unibas.ch", "Oops, what the hell a crosspost is this ?!\n\nHave a look onto XV-3.00 before saying anything more about it's power.\n", "Hello,\n I've been trying to bump map a gif onto a sphere for a while and I\ncan't seem to get it to work. Image mapping works, but not bump\nmapping. Here's a simple file I was working with, could some kind\nsoul tell me whats wrong with this.....\n\n#include \"colors.inc\"\n#include \"shapes.inc\"\n#include \"textures.inc\"\n \ncamera {\n location <0 1 -3>\n direction <0 0 1.5>\n up <0 1 0>\n right <1.33 0 0>\n look_at <0 1 2>\n}\n \nobject { light_source { <2 4 -3> color White }\n }\n \nobject {\n sphere { <0 1 2> 1 }\n texture {\n bump_map { 1 <0 1 2> gif \"surf.gif\"}\n }\n}\n\nNOTE: surf.gif is a plasma fractal from Fractint that is using the\nlandscape palette map.\n\n \n\tThanks in advance\n\t -Daniel-", "\n\n\nSince your MOSFET is a 1972 vintage, it's probably not a very good one by \ntoday's standards. If you have an idea about its voltage and current \nratings, e.g. 60VDC @ 6A, you can probably get away with replacing it with \nanything with better specs. Early MOSFETS had a gate-source voltage rating \nof approximately +/- 20 VDCmax, and they would usually turn completely \"ON\" \nat +10VDC. Otherwise, MOSFETS are not really mysterious -- they're more or \nless voltage controlled current sources. If the MOSFET in your circuit is \nused as an open-loop, voltage controlled current source, you may have to \nexperiment with various gain-altering techniques.", ": \n: Does anyone know what the vfintd.386 device is used for in windows 3.1?\n: It's under the [386enh] section as\n: \tdevice=c:\\dos\\vfintd.386\n: \nI know Norton Desktop for Windows includes this file and its help file \nmentioned something about floppy-disk access.\n\nJeroen\n", "\n\nYou could use DOS 6 to do this partly. You can set up different config.sys\nand autoexec.bat commands for each user, and they just have to select their\nmenu option on bootup. Then you can have the autoexec.bat copy the win.ini\nand system.ini files and change directories for them. When they exit windows,\nit can copy back generic .ini files if you want.\n\nThis is the only way I can think of. There may be some programs somewhere\nthat allow you to do this better, though using DOS 6 allows each person to\nhave a custom config.sys and autoexec.bat.", "\n[intermediate reply suggesting cable switch deleted]\n\n\nI hate to burst your bubble but you cannot \"slip in a B:\" to that\nparticular AMI BIOS setting. That setting only allows you to set\nthe *boot order* of the floppy A: with respect to the primary HD C:,\ni.e., check A: first, then C: or check C:, then A:.\n", "I'm planning on writing several classes to build a raytracing/radiosity library\non top of, and i'm wondering if anythink like this is freely available on the\nnet before i go to it. What i need is classes like rays, vectors, colors,\nshaders, surfaces, media, primitives, worlds (containing primitives) and\nviews/images.\n\nPlease post or mail.\n-- \nTorgeir Veimo\n\nStudying at the University of Bergen\n\n\"...I'm gona wave my freak flag high!\" (Jimi Hendrix)", "Well I am not sure if this is the right newsgroup to ask, but let me try anyway.\nI am running xterm and like all UNIX users, I run man . Recently,\nI switched to Solaris 2.1, and their man pages are littered with \".I\" directives\nthat are somehow translated into reverse video when displayed by man under xterm.\nThe resulting output (admittedly a personal taste) is very ANNOYING to look at.\nBack when I was using SunOS 4.1.2, I remember their man pages have some keywords\ndisplayed with underlining....\n\nSo my question is how do I change the xterm's behaviour under \".I\" directives \nfor nroff man pages, to perhaps underlining, or at least disabling it. (\".B\" \ndirectives are fine, I like them. And of course, I don't want to go in and edit\nthe man pages inputs...) Somehow, xterm allows one to specify both a normal font\nand a bold font, but not an italic font??\n\nAny pointers, suggestions are greatly appreciated.\nThanks -- John", "We recently got an NCD X-terminal to evaluate. This is running XRemote over\na serial line.\nI wanted to get some measurement of response time, so I wrote a small Xlib\nprogram which simply creates a window, maps it and sends the first Expose \nevent to itself. The program times the delay from sending the event, to \nreceiving it. I thought this was the simplest way to test client/X-server \nround-trip delays. It's a similar concept to the ping(8C) program.\n\nIs this a valid test to perform ? I've also tried the xbench program, available\nfrom ftp.uu.net, which bombards the server with graphics operations, but I \njust wanted to get a quantative measure of what is \"acceptable\" interactive \nresponse time. Has anyone got any ideas on this subject ?\n\nThanks.\nAndrew. (afielden@mlsma.att.com)\n", "Hello there,\n\nI am looking for Sim City for PC (new/used). Please make your offer to\ncchu@udel.edu. Thanks !\n", "Hi. Recently my svga monitor has been acting up by taking about\n3 minutes to warm up. \n\nPreviously, when I first start up my PC I can see all the \nCMOS messages (RAM test ...etc) but now I've got to wait \nfor about 3min before the display shows anything and\nit starts up with a bright white flash. This only happens\nwhen the system has been off for a long time (eg overnight).\nIf it was only off for a couple of hours and then turned on\nagain, the display works as normal like before.\n\nDoes anyone know what is causing this? Is it a warning that\nit will give up soon or just signs of aging (the system is a\n386sx and its about 3 yrs old). I've used systems at work for\nyears and never seen this happen to a monitor yet.\n\nI'd really appreciated any help that you fellow netters can offer.\nThanks a lot.\n\nEdwin\n-- ", "Hi, I'm new to this group so please bear with me!\n\nTwo years ago I wrote a Sunview application for fast animation\nof raster files. With Sunview becoming rapidly obselete, I've\nfinally decided to rewrite everything from scratch in XView.\nI put together a quick test, and I've found that XPutImage()\nis considerably slower (factor of 2 on average?) than the\nSunview command pw_rop() which moves image data from memory\npixrects to a canvas. This was on a Sparc IPX. It seems that:\n(1) the X protocol communication is slowing things down; or\n(2) XPutImage is inefficient...or both! My question is, what\nis the fastest way in X11R5 to dump 8 plane image data to\na window? Can I take advantage of the fact that the client is\nrunning on the same machine as the server? Or am I stuck with\nXPutImage() (in which case I might as well give up now...)?\n\nAll help appreciated...thanks!\n\nDerek\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------", "\nInteresting, I'd like to know why.\n\nBut try it again on a single ethernet with 100 X terminals on it,\nand I think you'll find it much slower.", "'lo all,\n\n I am writting a program that checks a computer for its configuration.\nIt's going to be run everytime a computer boots up to our campus\nnetwork. (Actually, it already is running, it's just not getting all\nthe info I want it to yet...) Anyway, I want to check for a mouse. I\nalready check for a mouse driver (using the code in Microsoft's Mouse\nbook). But there is no guarantee that the driver is loaded when my\nprogram runs, or that they ever load the driver.\n\n Since I am interested in what hardware is attached to the machine, how\ndo I detect is a mouse is attached? I know it can be done because the\nmouse driver can do it.\n\n Thanks in advance,\n\nAndy\n\n", "What kind of CSA/UL/FCC approval do $60+ mail-order PC computer\ncases and power supplies have? \n\nCan I assume that the certification process for small-scale custom hardware\n(ie digital/analog circuitry) is reduced, or even eliminated, if I use\nsuch a case and (certified) power supply?", "/* Apologies for those who have read this before but no-one has solved this */\n/* one yet so I'm posting again! Sorry :-) */\n\nI'm having problems creating a cursor bigger than 64x64, I'm using Motif 1.1\nX11R4 running HP-UX 8.07 - all the functions return valid results but no\ncursor appears when the bitmap is bigger than the aforementioned size. I tried\n\nusing the following code:\n\nunsigned int w,h;\nXQueryBestCursor(XtDisplay(programArea), XtWindow(programArea), 72, 71, &w,\n&h);\n\nto return the nearest size to what I require however it returns 72 and 71 as\nthe width and height respectively. What am I doing wrong? and if not how can I\nget round the problem!!", "Thank you ALL for requesting my list and thank you again \n if you purchased vinyl from me. \n\n LOTSA MORE VINYL LEFTOVER FOR SALE. \n VINYL looking for a new home. \n PLEASE BUY some (more) so I can STOP running this AD. \n\n Bunches of 12\" vinyl records for sale \n including a METAL ACETATE!!! NO not heavy metal music) \n BUT EM ALL and GET AMAZING DEAL... \n email me for BIG list and details. (Mass, USA) ", ": \n: Excuse me if this is a frequent question, I checked in\n: several FAQs but couldn't really find anything.\n\nYou are excused... the answer varies from Mac to Mac so it would be\na complex answer in the FAQ.\n: \n: I have a IIsi with the standard 5 meg memory and I want\n: (need) to add additional memory. But I'm on a budget.\n: I really don't need more than 10 meg max, so what is\n: the best (performance wise) and most economical way\n: to do this? Someone told me that I should only use\n: SIMMs of the same amount of memory, that is 4 1 meg,\n: 4 2 meg, etc. What if I just wanted to buy just 1 4 meg\n: and use the rest of what I already have? The manual\n: hasn't been very helpful with this.\n: \nThe si uses a 32 bit wide data bus and therefore you must use 4 8-bit\nwide simms. Sorry, but no short cuts here.\n\n: Thanks.\n\nYou're quite welcome.\n: \nGreg.\n", "Hello,\n\n While refurbishing our observatory I came across the above mentioned camera. It was manufactured\nby the Instrument Corporation of Florida ~ 1970. Now for my questions:\n\n1) Does anyone have any knowledge of this equipement ?\n2) Does anyone know of the company (phone numbers ?) ?\n3) Are there any others out there...I need some parts.\n\n\nAny responces are greatly appreciated.\n\n take care,\n jamie", "We have a LAN where we are doing development on product for multiple platforms. \nFor the moment we are only working on MAC and DOS/Windows. The department has \nalways used sneaker net to transport files to the MAC, since it requires a \nfilter to strip out the characters. \n\nUntil recently no one concidered using any version control to mediate, and as \na result, the 5 programmers spent a great deal of time merging files together \nat the end of each week so that a new system could be build. We are now trying \nto streamline this process, but are hampered by the lack of software that will \nallow us to share files across PC and MAC platforms. \n\nI understand that PVCS used to do this, but that they no longer support the MAC \nproduct (anyone know why ?? Polytron ?). \n\nI have seen people ask about development in multiple platforms, so I assume that\nours is not a new problem. Who has had to deal with it ? What solutions have \nyou come up with? \n\nthanks in advance for any and all suggestions via posting or EMAIL. If there are\nenough EMAIL responses then I will post a synopsis of the knowledge. \n\n-Charles Emmons \n", "\n But, think of the *mystique* you are buying into for that extra $7k or\nmore!!!", "I am having a really bothersome problem using the MSDOS prompt in Windows 3.1\nto open a dos box. When I am done with the dos box, I cant get back to windows.\nIf I do Alt enter to shrink the box or use 'exit' to close it, the screen goes\nblack and I have to control-alt-delete until I kill windows. I get a couple\nof screens about app not responding.\n\nI think things are still alive under the black screen because if I alt-tab\nto cycle through the running apps, I get flashes of text but then the\nblack returns.\n\nThis persists even if the machine is powered on and off.\n\nI am working with an app developed using Borland's 3.1 application frameworks\nand c++. It seems to work fine.\n\nHardware is a 486 with 16meg ram; not on a network. Video is a TSENG \nvga. dos 5.0.\n\nI reinstalled windows a couple of time but the problem comes back. I am\nusing temporary swapping for virtual memory.\n\nI would really REALLY appreciate any hints anyone might offer.\n\nThanks,", ": I'm looking to buy a 17\" monitor soon, and it seems that I can't decide what\n: monitor I should buy. I have a MAG 17S (this is a .25 dpi version and it using\n: a TRINITON tube) and a NANAO 560i in mind.\n\nGood luck finding an MX17S. When I was looking around back in\nDecember/January, Mag wasn't producing any because they couldn't get\ntubes from Sony. I asked when they expected to restart production as\nI was willing to wait a few months to get an MX17S but they said not\nany time soon. I wound up getting a T560i and am extremely happy with\nit.\n\nDavid", "\nThere is a vast literature on Delaunay triangulations, literally\nhundreds of papers. A program is even provided with every copy of \nMathematica nowadays. You might look at this if you are interested in \nusing it for creating 3D objects:", "\n \n \n-- \nGosh..I think I just installed a virus..It was called MS DOS6...\nDon't copy that floppy..BURN IT...I just love Windows...CRASH...\n", "Sorry if this is a FAQ but :\n\n \"Where can I get a 286 (16 bit) version of POV-Ray ? \"\n\nAny help would be greatly appreciated.\n\nI need the 286 version since Turbo Pascal won't let me run a 32 bit\nprogram from within my program. Any info on this would also be a\ngreat help.\n\n Thanks,\n\n Byron.\n\nbkidd@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au\nB.Kidd@cam.compserv.utas.edu.au\n-- \n", "\n(1) No explicit (c) is necessary. If it the image is attributed to the\nGeosphere Company, then there is a likelihood permission is has been\ngiven to reprint.\n\n(2) Unlikely that the owner can or will go after individuals.\nHowever, \"interesting\" images do make their way into ads and\ncomputer demos. That is when a pirate might get some flak.\nThis image is considered so \"interesting\" that many people would\nlike to use it whenever some global map is needed, so there\nis lots of temptation.\n\n(3) One mail person said since the source data- satellite imagery-\nis not copyrighted, then the derived image can't be. Not true.\nA new, distinctive, creative expression of the data can be protected.\nThis image is certainly fits such, since NO ONE ELSE has taken the\ntremendous effort to re-create it themselves. Precedent is a recent\ntelephone book court case. Ma Bell tried to copyright the data in\ntheir books and prevent competitors from copying it (there are\ntrick entries in the book). But the court only permitted copyright\nof the expression of the data, and not the data themselves. (You cant\nxerox and sell the telephone book.)\n\n(4) There will be more attention to digital copyrights in the future\nand computer becomes a mass product and moguls such as Bill Gates\nare currently hoarding the digital copyrights.", "\n\nConsider it heard! AMI Enterprise III EISA/VLB w/ UltraStor 34F\n-- \n\n=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=", "\n\n\n\nTry the 'M.Sc. Computing Science' course at the REAL Newcastle University.\nIt's a conversion course, but at least they teach REAL programming.\n\nIn the space of 9 months we were taught PASCAL, Simula, Prolog, Miranda.\nAlso, some basic low level stuff (68000) was covered as well.\n\nThey also did concurrent programming and operating systems, some software\nengineering, plus quite a few optional units, including database theory,\nand some stuff about comms. \n\nThe PASCAL is to be replaced by C/C++ I think next year - I learn't this (and \nX Windows programming as well)\nanyway via a good selection of project over the final three months - depending\non your tastes, the selection of skills learn't can be quite wide reaching.\n\nThe one critiscism I would level at the course, which I would have thought\ninvaluable, is the lack of an option to do the project period in industry -\nthis would probably need a slightly longer project period (say six months), but\nwould enhance the prestige and usefulness of an already excellent and thorough\ncourse.\n\nYes, I know this sounds like a plug for the course, why not!", "\nI was wondering if any one knew how the various hard drive compression utilities work. My hard\ndrive is getting full and I don't want to have to buy a new one. What I'm intrested in is speed\n,ease of use, amount of compression, and any other aspect you think might be important as I've never\nuse one of these things before. thanks Morgan Bullard mb4008@coewl.cen.uiuc.edu\n\t\t\t\t\t\tor mjbb@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu\n", "For those who are interested in Ray Traced pictures, there is a nice example\non alt.binaries.pictures.misc. The file is called Poolball.gif. It shows a\npooltable with... YES! ... poolballs!\nResolution: 1024x768, colours: 256 (only).\nThe TGA (24 bit) version is also available, but a bit big (2.4Mb) to post.\nThe picture is created with POV-ray.\n\n\n\n\nEnjoy!\n\n\n_Gerco_\n__cgschot@cs.ruu.nl__\n\n", "Does anybody know about a converter from CGM to PCX or anything else more\ncommon. I've spent some time searching the archives with no luck.\nCould you email me your responses.\n\n\n\n Thx in advance,\n Mike G.\n", "\nXC units are often pre-production sample devices. Those are normally\ndistributed for evaluation as freebies and are not guaranteed to\nmeet every spec.\n\n\nYep, that's for sure...that's one thing I like most about Motorola.", "this is a repost... I like to find out more about this also...\n\n*** Message Part 2: Text ****************************************\nThe COSE announcement specifies that Motif will become the common\nGUI. But what does this mean exactly?\n \n- Do they mean that all \"COSE-complient\" apps will have the Motif\n look and feel?\n \n- Do they mean that all \"COSE-complient\" apps will use the Motif\n toolkit API?\n \n- Do they mean both of the above?\n \n- Is it possible that there will be a Motif-API complient toolkit with\n an OpenLook Look & Feel?\n \n- How about an OLIT/XView/OI/Interviews API toolkit with a Motif L & F?\n (I know OI already does this, but will this be considered COSE-complient?)\n \n- Will there be more than one \"standard\" toolkit API or L & F supported?\n \n- How does using ToolTalk fit in with Motif?\n \nThis is my attempt to start a discussion in order to pull as much\nknowledge about these questions off the net... Feel free to e-mail\nor followup.\n \n--\n--------------------------------------------------------------------\n-- Gil Tene \"Some days it just doesn't pay -\n-- devil@imp.HellNet.org to go to sleep in the morning.\" -\n-- devil@diablery.10A.com -", "Last week's MacWEEK article by Ric Ford indicated that David Ramsey's\nMac IIx has been running nicely with a Mac IIci ROM in it, offering\nclean 32-bit ROM code (liberating his IIx from the virtual memory\nnightmare caused by Apple's 32-bit System Enabler).\n\nDoes anyone know of a source for these ROMs? Is it okay for a\nremanufacturer to resell only ROM chips from used machines? I know that\ncopies cannot be made, but it seems to me that it would be okay to\nresell the original used ROM. (After all, reselling a used computer\ninvolves the sale of the ROM anyway, so what's the difference?).\n\nNeedless to say, I'm interested in purchasing such a ROM. What would\nbe a reasonably price to offer?", ": |> \n: |> Is there any way to connect two pointing devices to one serial\n: |> port? I haven't tried this but I believe they would interfere\n: |> with each other (?) even if only one at a time would be used.\n\n: \tJust get an A-B switch for RS232. Look in Computer Shopper.\n: They are available fairly cheap. They allow switching between two\n: serial devices on a single port.\n\nUnfortunately the poster wants to use an internal and an external modem so a\nswitch isn't going to help them. If you aren't using your com ports for\nanything else, just define them on different com ports. Define your internal\nmodem to be say, com1, and your external modem to be com3. You really\nshouldn't have to worry about interrupt conflicts since you won't be using\nboth modems at the same time :).\n", "How are you, Everybody?\n\nI installed X11R5 on our IBM RS6000 workstation. OS version is AIX 3.2.3.\nThere was no problem in installation.\nBut there was a problem in invoking 'xinit'.\nWhen I invoke 'xinit', there is a error message as follows:\n\ngiving up.\nxinit: unable to connect to X server\nxinit: No such process (errno 3): Server error.\n\nI'm a navice. So I don't know the reason why I get this message.\nPlease help me. I am waiting for your help.\n\nThanks for reading this mail.", "Hi, I need some advice from the netland in selecting a sound card.\n\nI am about to buy a sound card for my kid. I don't know which one to buy.\nWhich one to select from the following list:\n\n- Sound Blaster 16\n- Miscrosoft- sound card\n- Audio Spectrum\n- Sound Blaster pro\n- Sound Blaster\n\n\nMy allocated budget is around $250.\n\n\nCould some of you know about sound cards help me to select the most appropriate\none for my kid ?\n\n\nI have 486-33 Mz OPTI MB.\nI also have NEC CDROM that I would like to connect to the sound card.\n\n\nThank you.\n\n", "Hello everybody,\n\nI am searching for (business) information of Windows application, to create a\nTOP-30 of most used WordProcessors, Spreadsheets, Drawing programs, Schedulers\nand Fax programs, etc..\n\nPlease mail me all your information or references. I will summaries the\nresults on this media.\n\n\nThank you in advance,\n\nAnton de Ruiter.", "\n\n Don't bother if you have CPBackup or Fastback. They all offer options \nnot available in the stripped-down MS version (FROM CPS!). Examples - no \nproprietary format (to save space), probably no direct DMA access, and no \ntape drive!", "Hi,\n I've seen alot of ads for voicemail/fax/data modems.....this would\nbe way-cool if they work well....I don't want to have someone call me\nand get the connecting sound of a fax machine. Do they work very well?\nHas anyone out there played with one? If so, please tell me what brand\nand other info like that.....\n\t\t\t\t\tThanks,\n\t\t\t\t\tKent\n", "1. Why, or how actually, can a Powerbook have a 640 x 400 pixel\n display, regardless if it is a 9\" or 10\", and still keep the\n 72 dpi resolution? (I assume that it doesn't, and I don't \n mean to imply they *all* have these dimensions)\n\n\n2. Any info on price drops or new models (non-Duo) coming up?\n\n", "\n\n\n Nope. The Apple 16\" monitor does not support multiple resolutions.\nIt is not a multi-synching monitor.", "I have a 41M IDE HD forsale or trade. I would like to trade it if possible.\n\nHD\n- 41M\n- IDE Westren Digital\n- No errors or bad sectors\n- 13.8ms access time\n- 855 kilobytes per second transfer rate\n- working in my computer right now.\n\nLOOKING FOR IN A TRADE MAYBE\n- SEGA Genesis\n- a pair of Sub Woffers\n- Souround Sound Stereo/Reciever\n- ANY KIND OF ELECTORNIC EQUIPMENT (IF YOU HAVE ELECTORINIC EQUIPMENT I LIKE \n ALMOST ANY KIND OF COMPUTRER, CAR, OR HOME\n EQUIPMENT, -- IF YOU WANT TO MAKE AN OFFER\n ON A TRADE LET ME KNOW. --CD PLAYER ..ect)\n\nPlease if you are interested in a trade let me know. \n\nemail ------ rogess@sage.cc.purdue.edu\n\n", "as far as simply mapping your logo or whatever onto a cube or sphere, \nit's quite easy. Just either copy the GIF you want mapped into the map \ndirectory or add a map path to the directory where it currently is. Then \ngo into the materials editor and make a new material with that as the bit \nmap, voila.. \n\n__________________________________________________________________________\n | / |\\\n | H E \\ Y B E R |/ E N [ zippy@cyberden.sf.ca.us ]", "I have a Hallicrafters S120 SW radio for sale. Worked the last time I\ntried it out. Make offer.\n\nMD", "\n\tGreetings. There are 3 types of warnings on (US) tapes:\n\n\t1) A hologram is glued across the seam of the 2 halves of the\n\t tape. The message usually reads, \"If seal is broken, you must\n\t buy this tape\"\n\n\t2) The standard \"MacroVision\" warning, \"Copies of this tape will\n\t be unviewable\"\n\n\t3) [your case] Extended message for the Average Consumer (tm) which\n\t states that even attempting to copy the tape will destroy the\n\t original. I don't believe you can sue them for misinformation\n\t in cases like this :-)\n\n\tTake care.\n\n\tP.S. Of course, #3 is utter BS - but the Average Consumer (tm)\n\t believes it. Heck, my mom once returned such a tape without\n\t watching it... she was afraid that something might just \n\t happen :-)", "\nI use PlugIn, an enhancement to Program Manager. It allows (1) for sure, I\ndon't know on (2). Anyway, give it a try. I like it a lot and registered it\nright away It can be found at ftp.cica.indiana.edu [129.79.20.84] in\n/pub/pc/win3/util/plugin13.zip\n\n-Bruce", "HP 9872B 4 pen plotter.\t\t\t\t\t\t\t$150\nFujistu M2451E 130 meg SCSI tape drive\t\t\t\t\t$150\nSony 40 meg SCSI disk drive (sticks once in a while)\t\t\t$50\nDead Maxtor XT4380E 338 meg ESDI drive\t\t\t\t\t$100\nDead Miniscribe 20 meg SCSI drive\t\t\t\t\t$10\nAdaptac SCSI to ST-412 interface board\t\t\t\t\t$20\nDaughter boards from tape drives ?QIC-02 - QIC-36?\t\t\t$20\nTwist Terms (VT100 terms that the head twists on for 80x25 or 80x72) \t$150\n14\" Analog RGB color monitor (15.7 Khz works nice with amiga's)\t\t$100\nSpool with 90+ feet of 50 conductor ribbon cable\t\t\t$75\n\nAll prices are or best offer. Prices do not include UPS shipping. All items\nworking except those stated as Dead.", "i am in need of a motif-based graphing package to integrate into a large\nsoftware package under development for distribution to universities. it\ncan be either public domain or commercial, although a commercial package\ncan't have royalties required for binary only distribution. we need 2-d\ngraphing capabilities at a minimum, but 3-d would be nice. any info would\nbe appreciated and i will summarize if there is interest.\n\nthanks,\nmitch", "\n\n\n\nTriQuint (Beaverton, Oregon), has been selling an 8 bit, 1 GHz D to A\nfor several years. I have used it and it works well, faster settling\ntime and smaller glitch area than any video d DACs I have seen. Also,\nthey have been developing a more precise version that may be for sale\nnow - it's somewhere in the 10 to 12 bit area at 1 GHz.\n", "Is there an ftp site for maps of the US. Preferably aerial\nphotographs?", "I recently bought an AMD 386/40. The motherboard booklet says\nthe board is a \"391 WB/H.\" I have 4 1x3 simms on board. The machine\nalso uses a Super IDE I/O Card (model PT-604). (of course niether\nthe motherboard or the I/O card booklet clearly state who the manufacurers\nare) I'm also using a Trident 8900C SVGA card.\n\n\tAnyway, that's all of the pertinent info I can think of.\nMy problem is that the computer often freezes or displays \"Parity Error --\nSystem Halted\" messages depending on whether I set the Memory Parity Error\nChecking to \"disabled\" or \"enabled\" in the setup of the bios (makes sense).\nIts AMI bios (so it must be an AMI board?).\n\n\tI just took it back to the dealer and they replaced all of the\nSIMMS but I keep getting the same error (more frequently now). It all\nworked at the dealer and didn't start screwing up 'till I got home (figures).\n\n\tI've tried to take out all of the SIMMS and even re-inserted them\nin reverse order, making sure that the connections were solid.\n\n\tMy suspicion jumps to this damn all in one HD controller/serial/\nparallel/game-port I/O card, or to the motherboard (God forbid).\n\n\tCAN ANYONE HELP?", "\nNo, the poster (me) has his brain in the wrong gear. As you can infer\nfrom the first sentence, I meant the consequences of no backup are *better*\nthan the consequences of an easy to copy database.", "\nBoth xli and xloadimage will display in 24 bit color if a 24 bit visual\nis available. Check the output of xdpyinfo to see if one is.", "\nI have a little answer:\n\nSee Foley, van Dam, Feiner, and Hughes, _Computer Graphics: Principles\nand Practice, Second Edition_.\n\n[If people would *read* this book, 75 percent of the questions in this\nfroup would disappear overnight...]\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tspl", "It used to live in a 1990 SE, and is marked 344-0062, and the ROMs\nthat go with it are 341-0701 & 2. Is this the solution to the person\nwho wants to upgrade to FDHD ?\ncheers\nMike.\n", "\nWe've been using it for a year on Unix (Sun and HP) and Windows platforms. In my\nopinion, it is the best toolkit on the market. It supports a rich API to a high\nlevel IPC mechanism, file system abstraction, memory management, command driven\napplication development, drawing, geometry management, and, oh yeah, Open Look,\nMotif, MS-Windows and Mac (at the flip of a switch).\n\n\n-- \n", "Because of the technology apple uses with their 800k disks, IBM PC cant read them without special hardware, 1.44M disks work more alike IBM's so we only can read 1.44 M disks on a PC\n\t/andy\n", "Sega Control Panel\nSuper Manaco GP II Catrridge\nOne Regular Controller\nOne Turbo Controller\nA/C Adapter\nA/V Cable \nStereo Cable\nCarrying Bag\n\nI would like $90 plus shipping OR trade with Game Gear and game.\nPlease e-mail if you feel interested, thank you!", "Do anyone know about any shading program based on Xlib in the public domain?\nI need an example about how to allocate correct colormaps for the program.\n\nAppreciate the help.", "ITEMS FOR SALE\n\n\n\n1. Howard Miller Clock. It chimes like a grandfather clock. $250\n\n2. Painting- A Tiger in the snow. It is a beautiful painting, the tiger\n looks like it can jump off of the canvas and get you. $200\n\n3. Mens Diamond Ring, size 10 - $500\na. 3 rows of diamonds\nb. 18k gold\n\nCall or email me.", "You have a lot more problems keeping up with hardware interrupts in Windows than\nin DOS - regardless of what communication software you are using.\n\nTry the following:\n 1) Turn off disk write cache for the disk you are downloading to. The\n cache will save up so much that when it grabs control of the machine\n it takes too long to write to disk and you loose characters.\n\n 2) Use a different UART for your serial line. The old UART's (8250 or 16450)\n can only buffer one character internally. The new UART's (16550) can\n buffer 16, which should be plenty for most situations. You can run\n \\windows\\msd.exe to find out what UART is on the machine.", "Selling -\n\n Arnet Multiport card. Four serial ports on one card (16450s)\nwith docs and drivers for OS/2 and DOS (works great with Unix flavors\ntoo). Aggregate is probably around 64Kb.\n\n Offers? Also willing to swap for monitor.", "According to the OSF/Motif Style Guide, one should use cursor shapes to give\nthe user a visual clue of what is happening or what is expected of him. So\na \"hourglass\" cursor should be shown when the application is busy, or a\n\"caution\" cursor should be shown over an area when input is expected in\nanother. Defining cursors for widgets has to be done at rather low level.\nSo defining a cursor for all widgets in an application but not for a certain\nsubpart of it, is a rather complicated matter. When cursors have been defined\nfor some windows, e.g. a \"crosswire\" cursor for a DrawingArea, things get even\nmore complicated. My intuition says that things should be easier, but is this\nso? If anyone has a solid and complete solution to my problem, please let me\nknow. The topics on \"busy cursors\" in the several FAQ's are not helpful, since\nthey only work for applications where all windows have the cursor window\nattribute set to 'None'.", "\n: {> \n: {> \tHowdy,\n: {> \n: {> \tThe other day I was using Norton's SpeedDisk to optimize my Seagate(125MB) h\n: {> problem persisted. I backed up all essential data and decided to reformat\n: {> my hard drive. When I attempted this it got to the 279th clylinder 8th\n: {> head and gave me an error message saying that it \"Could not find the sector\"\n: {> I have tried everything I can think of. Now I can't even access my hard driv\n: {> to write information to it. I tried to boot up with my MS-DOS disks but MS-D\n: {> tries to reformat my hard drive and gets 29% of the way through to say \"Error\n: {> formatting hard drive. Press f3 to exit\" I tried to scan my hard drive\n: {> for viruses but I can;t access it and I get a message (When I try to do a dir\n: {> saying \"Error INT 24\" Can anyone Help me? I have no idea what to do. \n: {> \n: {> Thanks in advance for any help!\n: {> \n: {> \t\t\t\tGreg\n\n: try a bios level format via the debug command.\n: -G=xxxx:5 where xxxx is the Hex address of the hd controller bios\n: location.\n: if this will not work, a last resort would be to take a large magnet\n: to the hard disk, but this has to be done properly or you will cause\n: or could cause more damage than has been done already.\n\n: disclaimer: I am not responsible for your actions by directly applying\n: a large magnet to your hard disk.\n\n: if done correctly the magnet trick will wipe out everything on the\n: hard disk _COMPLETELY_ and a low level BIOS format might succeed\n\n\n: -David\n\n: =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=", "cd's for sale:\n\n1. jon bon jovi - new jersey $8.00\n2. boomerang - soundtrack $8.00\n3. the police - every breath you take $8.00\n\n */ $1.00 s/h ", "\n\nI agree with you about the upgrade path; but I think I was fair.\n\nThe original posting complained (1) about SGI coming out with newer (and\nbetter) architectures and not having an upgrade path from the older ones,\nand (2) that DEC did.\n\nOn statement (1), I merely attempted to point out that all computer\ncompanies are constantly attempting to improve their product (& market\nposition/share). In so doing, they eventually come to a point where they\nhave a new architecture, and the only upgrade path is to replace the\nsystem. And the particular system he was complaining about was (in\ncomputer lifetimes) relatively old.\n\nOn statement (2), I felt DEC's history of providing upgrades was not far\nsuperior than the industry \"average\", and that, in my opinion, SGI's\nhistory is better than DEC's.\n\n(And what is DEC doing with it's MIPS based DECstation line? Are they\ngoing to \"abandon\" it for their Alpha based line, or provide an upgrade\npath to R4400's and TFP's and R5's?)", "Hi,\n\nI've noticed that if you only save a model (with all your mapping planes\npositioned carefully) to a .3DS file that when you reload it after restarting\n3DS, they are given a default position and orientation. But if you save\nto a .PRJ file their positions/orientation are preserved. Does anyone\nknow why this information is not stored in the .3DS file? Nothing is\nexplicitly said in the manual about saving texture rules in the .PRJ file. \nI'd like to be able to read the texture rule information, does anyone have \nthe format for the .PRJ file?\n\nIs the .CEL file format available from somewhere?\n\nRych", "\nMaybe it milks the dogcow? 9-)\n\n\n\nLots of drivers are available off ftp.cica.indiana.edu in pub/pc/win3/\ndrivers/video. I've tried two: et4cview.zip and et4turbo.zip. These\ngive you a choice of turbo and non-turbo drivers. The turbo drivers\nwere FAST but caused mouse problems with my machine (which has a\nDiamond Speedstar card). I finally got turbo drivers (wndSpeed by\nBinar) from Diamond. Amazing. Blazingly fast (for a non-accelerated\ncard) and best of all - no GPF's for a month or so...\n\n\n\n-- ", "\nCam,\n\nSeveral months ago I bought a 4/40 PB100 with external floppy, AppleTalk\nRemote Access, a Kensington case and AC adapter with complete documentation\nand in almost new condition, used for US$900. I considered it a very good\nbuy and am very *cosy* with my little baby now... :-)\n\nMurray\n", "\nPerhaps you're using the wrong brand! (Sorry all HP fans, but I have\na hard time being convinced that their scopes match the rest of their\n(excellent) gear).\n\nOne of the principal functions I look for when considering a DSO is\nwhether you can turn interpolation off. The other important feature\nis to disable repetitive waveform acquisition i.e. being able to lock\nthe instrument into real time capture mode.\n\n\nI agree with you here. The only consolation is that manufacturers are\n_beginning_ to pay attention to ergonomics when designing the menus.\nHowever, to be fair, it seems that first time scope users (our students)\nseem to adjust to menus easier than navigating around the twenty or\nmore knobs required of a \"real\" scope :-)\n\n\nThis is one area that newer DSOs are addressing. I recently evaluated\nthe latest box from Tek - their TDS320 - which seems to be a worthy\nalternative to a standard 100MHz analogue CRO. This instrument has\na 100MHz, 500Ms/s spec, meaning that it is _always_ in real time\ncapture mode. The pricing also matches equivalent analogue scopes in\nthe range. The downer is that the instrument uses menus again, but at\nleast they appear to be logically laid out.\n\nOne more thing about the new, \"simpler\", front panels. These instruments\ntend to use digital rotary encoders as knobs now. This is a vast improvement\nover the old oak switch. The single most common cause of failure in our\nscopes (other than students blowing up inputs!) is mechanical wear on these\nswitches. I look at the new panels as a great step toward increasing the\nlongevity of the instruments.\n\nJohnH\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n | _ |_ _ |_| _ _| _| Electronics Department\n |_| (_) | | | | | | (_| (_| (_| \\/ School of MPCE\n ---------------------------------/- Macquarie University\n Sydney, AUSTRALIA 2109\n\n Email: johnh@mpce.mq.edu.au, Ph: +61 2 805 8959, Fax: +61 2 805 8983\n", "I too am interested in peoples' experience with accelerators for the\nSE. Is an accelerator the best route to improve performace in my SE, or should\nI consider upgrading to an SE/30 motherboard? Obviously, buying a new mac \nwould be ideal, but alas, I only have enough money for an accelerator or\nmotherboard.\n\tE-mail reply preferred. Thanks.\n\n", "Does anyone on this group use this program? It stacks up pretty well to \nCorel Draw, and since I don't have a CDROM, it was the best buy...", "\n\n\nI use WD-40.\n\n\n\n\n\n\nTry WD-40.\n\n\n\n\n\nXavier\n\n\n\n\n\n\n", "The following used CD's are for sale. They are each $8 unless otherwise\nmarked. I will pay for the shipping and handling costs. If you are\ninterested in any just e-mail me at awakhras@phoenix.princeton.edu. At\nthat point we will figure out the payment and mailing procedure. \n\nArtist\t\t\t\tTitle\n\nRobbie Robertson\t\tStoryville\nLove and Rockets\t\tLove and Rockets\nJeff Lynne\t\t\tArmchair Theatre\nElvis Costello\t\t\tMighty Like a Rose\nPublic Image LTD\t\t9\nNeneh Cherry\t\t\tRaw Like Sushi\nBobby Brown \t\t\tDon't Be Cruel\nDepeche Mode\t\t\tBlack Celebration\nTraveling Wilburys Vol. 1\nBad Company\t\t\t10 from 6\nSoul II Soul\t\t\tVol. II-1990 A New Decade\nThe Godfathers\t\t\tMore Songs About Love and Hate\nPaul McCartney\t\t\tFlowers in the Dirt\nSimply Red\t\t\tStars\nPrince\t\t\t\tGraffitti Bridge", "Hi. I am trying to set up a Conner 3184 and a Quantum 80AT drive. I have\nthe conner set to the master, and the quantum set to the slave (doesn't work\nthe other way around). I am able to access both drives if I boot from a \nfloppy, but the drives will not boot themselves. I am running MSDOS 6, and\nhave the Conner partitioned as Primary Dos, and is formatted with system\nfiles. I have tried all different types of setups, and even changed IDE\ncontroller cards. If I boot from a floppy, everything works great (except\nthe booting part :)). The system doesn't report an error message or anything,\njust hangs there. Does anyone have any suggestions, or has somebody else\nrun into a similar problem? I was thinking that I might have to update the bios\non one of the drives (is this possible?). Any suggestions/answers would be\ngreatly appreciated. Please reply to:", "I am auctioning off the following comics. These minimum bids are set\nbelow what I would normally sell them for. Make an offer, and I will\naccept the highest bid after the auction has been completed.\n\nTITLE Minimum/Current \n--------------------------------------------------------------\nAlpha Flight 51 (Jim Lee's first work at Marvel)\t$ 5.00\nAliens 1 (1st app Aliens in comics, 1st prnt, May 1988)\t$20.00/KrisM./TWICE\nAmazing Spider-Man 136 (Intro new Green Goblin) $20.00\nAmazing Spider-Man 238 (1st appearance Hobgoblin)\t$50.00\nArcher and Armstrong 1 (Frank Miller/Smith/Layton)\t$ 7.50\nAvengers 263 (1st appearance X-factor) $ 3.50\nBloodshot 1 (Chromium cover, BWSmith Cover/Poster)\t$ 5.00\nDaredevil 158 (Frank Miller art begins) $35.00\nDark Horse Presents 1 (1st app Concrete, 1st printing)\t$ 7.50 \nDetective 657 (Azrael appears, Intro Cypher)\t\t$ 5.00\nHarbinger 10 (1st appearance H.A.R.D. Corps)\t\t$ 7.00/B.Matthey/SOLD\nH.A.R.D. Corps 1 \t\t\t\t\t$ 5.00\nIncredible Hulk 324 (1st app Grey Hulk since #1, 1962)\t$ 7.50\nIncredible Hulk 330 (1st McFarlane issue)\t\t$15.00\nIncredible Hulk 331 (Grey Hulk series begins)\t\t$11.20\t\nIncredible Hulk 367 (1st Dale Keown art in Hulk) $15.00\nIncredible Hulk 377 (1st all new hulk, 1st prnt, Keown) $15.00\nMarvel Comics Presents 1 (Wolverine, Silver Surfer) $ 7.50\nMaxx Limited Ashcan (4000 copies exist, blue cover)\t$33.50/BrentB/TWICE\nMr T. #1 (Signed Advance copy, 10,000 exist)\t\t$10.00\nNew Mutants 86 (McFarlane cover, 1st app Cable - cameo)\t$10.00\nNew Mutants 100 (1st app X-Force) $ 5.00\nNew Mutants Annual 5 (1st Liefeld art on New Mutants)\t$10.00\nOmega Men 3 (1st appearance Lobo) $ 7.50\nOmega Men 10 (1st full Lobo story) $ 7.50\nPower Man & Iron Fist 78 (3rd appearance Sabretooth) $25.00\n 84 (4th appearance Sabretooth) $20.00\nSimpsons Comics and Stories 1 (Polybagged special ed.)\t$ 7.50\nSpectacular Spider-Man 147 (1st app New Hobgoblin) $12.50\nStar Trek the Next Generation 1 (Feb 1988, DC mini) $ 7.50\nStar Trek the Next Generation 1 (Oct 1989, DC comics) $ 7.50\nTrianglehead #1 (Special limited edition, autogrphed)\t$ 5.00\nWeb of Spider-Man 29 (Hobgoblin, Wolverine appear) $10.00 \nWeb of Spider-Man 30 (Origin Rose, Hobgoblin appears) $ 7.50\nWolverine 10 (Before claws, 1st battle with Sabretooth)\t$15.00\nWolverine 41 (Sabretooth claims to be Wolverine's dad)\t$ 5.00\nWolverine 42 (Sabretooth proven not to be his dad)\t$ 3.50\nWolverine 43 (Sabretooth/Wolverine saga concludes)\t$ 3.00\nWolverine 1 (1982 mini-series, Miller art)\t\t$20.00\nWonder Woman 267 (Return of Animal Man) $12.50\nX-Force 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, X-Force card) $20.00\nX-Force 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, Shatterstar card) $10.00\nX-Force 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, Deadpool card) $10.00\nX-Force 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, Sunspot/Gideon) $10.00\n\nAll comics are in near mint to mint condition, are bagged in shiny \npolypropylene bags, and backed with white acid free boards. Shipping is\n$1.50 for one book, $3.00 for more than one book, or free if you order \na large enough amount of stuff. I am willing to haggle.\n\nI have thousands and thousands of other comics, so please let me know what \nyou've been looking for, and maybe I can help. Some titles I have posted\nhere don't list every issue I have of that title, I tried to save space.", "\n I think you will find that the active Linux and 386BSD communities are\n populated by enthusiasts who would object to paying *any* money for software.\n Otherwise, they would probably have gone for a commercial Unix.\n An important factor in the Linux community is that source code is always\n available (this is probably similar in the 386BSD community, however, I'm not\n really involved there). Many people using Linux like to stay at the cutting\n (bleeding) edge: ie. when kernel patches, C library or compiler patches come\n out, people like to rebuild their entire systems. The prime requirement for\n all Linux software is that it is available under a GNU style public license.\n Hence, Linux software uses either the Athena widgets or XView.\n Individuals may write software requiring Motif, but I doubt it is widely\n adopted.\n\n\t\t\t\tRegards,", "Macintosh IIsi, 3/40, 80ns.\nClock-upgraded IIsi works well at 25MHZ, however, does not work with\nNubus adaptor and 1400k disk even though it can read/write 800k disk\nat32MHz. Interestingly, upgraded IIsi overcomes basically the fighting\nbetween the Vedio and the System so that CPU never be reduced below 8 no\nmater whether the cache is on or off. This is pretty useful when you\nuse the virtual memory of system 7. \n\n 20MHz 25MHZ 32MHz \n CPU 5.46(6.0.7)\t 6.81(6.0.7)\t8.83(6.0.7) 8.74(7VM)\n Graf. \t 6.72 8.56 11.07 9.19 \n Disk 1.44 1.50 1.56 1.49\n Math. 5.72 11.27(FPU) 9.36 8.84", "\n\nThe difference is that the 16550 got bugs while the 16550A can be used\nwhithout problems even in fast serial communications. Other sources\nsay that only the 16550AFN from Nat Semi (i.e. not: second sources)\nis really OK.\n\nBest wishes", "# 74S\tLater modification of 74 for even higher speed, at some cost in\n# \tpower consumption. Effectively obsolete; use 74F.\n# \n# 74LS\tCombination of 74L and 74S, for speed comparable to 74 with lower\n# \tpower consumption. Best all-round TTL now, widest variety of\n# \tdevices.\n# \n# 74F\tFast as blazes, power not too bad. The clear choice for high\n# \tspeed in TTL. Availability and prices generally good.\n\nI hate to disagree w/ a fellow as smart as Henry, but...\n\nA few years back, I worked on a project using lots of high-speed\nstuff. (My part was slow & parallel, whew.) The mild-mannered designer\nworking on the fast (serial) stuff cussed & swore at 74F all the time.\nIt was the Harry Reams of TTL. One ultra-tiny power line glitch, one\nhickup, one eyeblink across the board, and bang - the F had\ntoggled/counted/whatevered. At times he swore it would count even\nwithout any 5 volt supply ;-} You can guess what the \"F\" stood for....\n\nThey would do anything to push S or work around it to avoid using F. I\ndon't think I'd consider using F to replace S unless the consequences\nwere *fully* understood.......", "\n\tThis has to be a setup. Lookit--same site as Arnie Skurow.\n\nLater,", "\n\nThe curiosities that you speak of are EL (Electro-Luminescent) pads. They\nare mostly used as backlights for LCD's, and as you pointed out, comes\nin several different colors. Many of them emit white-ish colors (\"true\"\nwhite, and blue-whiteis-blue are the ones that I've personally encountered\nthe most often.)\n\nThey vary in their input requirements, however, they tend to operate at \nabout 100 Vrms, and at much higher than 60 Hz. (400 Hz to 1 kHz, if I \nrecall correctly.) You can get them to work at 120 Vrms, 60 Hz (i.e.,\nline) but they don't glow as brightly, and they will degrade much faster.\n(Oh yes, almost forgot, EL's have this tendency to wear out over time...)\n", "Yet another XView question: is there an (easy) way of detecting when a user\nhas resized a frame _externally_ by way of the window manager (e.g. grabbing\nand letting go of the frame resize corners under olwm)? If so, please let me\nknow!\n\nDerek\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------", "I have been experiencing several end-user problems with various commercial\nsoftware packages (WordPerfect 5.2/WIN, Publish It!/WIN 3.1) and printing\nlandscape mode on a Citizen PN48 (the little guy) or the Citizen GSX-140+.\n\nIn a nutshell the problem is that I lose the first 0.625 inches of\ninformation from my left margin, be it white space or TrueType font\noutput, and margins are not preserved on subsequent pages past the\nfirst.\n\nWordPerfect had a workaround consisting of using the \"Default\" location\nfor the printers instead of \"Tractor\" or \"Manual\". They have also filed\nthis as a bug and are continuing to investigate it.\n\nMS Write, of course, has no problem with these printer drivers, proving that\nMicrosoft knows something the rest of us don't! Are you surprised? I'm\nnot.\n\nPublish It!/WIN is still investigating this problem, and while I was consider-\nmy options (rejecting the one about buying an $800 DTP package, for *surely*\nthey wouldn't have this problem, right?) I stumbled onto a global workaround.\n\nWORKAROUND\n----------\nGo into the Windows 3.1 control panel, select printers, select your Citizen\nprinter driver, select SETUP, and select a custom size of 850 x 1132. Like\nmagic, all of your problems will go away.\n\nAsk me no questions and I'll tell you no lies!\n\n-- Mike\n\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDisclaimer: My opinions do not necessarily reflect those of my employer.\n========================================================================", "I have placed a new release of my aXe editor in aXe-5.0.tar.Z on\nexport.lcs.mit.edu (18.24.0.12) and arjuna.ncl.ac.uk (128.240.150.1).\n\nThe significant change this time, and the justification for the hike\nin the major version number, is:\n\n o undo has been implemented.\n\n By default only the last change can be undone, but a resource is\n provided to allow the user to specify how many, including unlimited,\n levels of undo information should be kept. Also, undo of undo is\n supported.\n\nThere is no truth in the rumour that the next version will be EmaXe 19 :-)\n\n -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-\n\nFor those who have not encountered aXe before here is a summary of\nwhat it is all about:\n\naXe is a simple to use text editor for X that represents a significant\nimprovement over xedit. Also built around the Athena Text Widget it\nfeatures, amongst other things,\n\n o multiple windows\n o multiple buffers\n o default menu interface\n o optional button interface, with choice and layout of buttons \n under user control\n o minibuffer for expert use and access to external filters\n o provision for defining a keyboard macro\n o geometry specification and resizing in terms of characters\n o file selection via a browser\n o knowledge of line numbers\n o parenthesis matching\n o regular expression searching\n o restricted or unlimited undo\n o ability to change font\n o easy entry of control codes\n o xterm-like keymap feature\n o easy runtime setting of selected preferences (resources)\n o both brief and comprehensive on-line help\n o server mode with cooperating client programs\n o optional extension language using Tcl\n o optional Xaw3d widget set compatability\n o collection of reusable widgets that embody the functionality of aXe\n\nI have personally built and run core aXe, i.e. without the Tcl and\nXaw3d options, on the following systems:\n\n Sun SPARC SunOS 4.1.x MIT X11R5\n Sun SPARC SunOS 5.1 MIT X11R5\n Encore Multimax UMAX 4.3 MIT X11R5\n DEC 5000/120 ULTRIX 4.2 MIT X11R5\n HP 9000/710 HP-UX 8.07 MIT X11R5\n MAC IIci AU/X 3.0 MIT X11R5\n \nbut not all have been subject to the same level of testing. I have\nonly tested the Tcl and Xaw3d options on the first.\n\nA number of '#ifdef SYSV'-isms that have been fed back to me have been\nincorporated into the code and a possible scandir replacement is\nprovided for those systems that do not have one.\n\nAlthough aXe will probably build under R4 run-time problems have been\nencountered in the past. I have not bothered to try this version under\nR4, and have not put any effort into solving previously known\nproblems. Therefore, if you are at R4 you very much take pot luck. If\nit doesn't work the only alternative is to try the last release,\n2.1.1, of version 2 which should still be around. It doesn't have as\nmany features and uses the Widget Creation Library (Wcl). Not only\nthat, it requires an old version of Wcl, 1.06 or 1.05. Version 3 of\naXe was nearing completion when version 2 of Wcl came out so aXe 2\nnever got converted to make use of it.\n\naXe is available by anonymous ftp from export.lcs.mit.edu (18.24.0.12)\nand arjuna.ncl.ac.uk (128.240.150.1) initially, and probably in due\ncourse from several other ftp sites. Check your nearest using\nxarchie.\n\nIf you can't ftp, try sending email to ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com with the\nword \"help\" alone in your message body. You will receive instructions\non how to ftp via email.\n\nJim", "AllTall Cool OneWhat's a good IC for RS23\n\nTC>From: rky57514@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Tall Cool One )\nTC>Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana\nTC>I'm looking for an IC that will convert RS232 voltage levels to TTL vo\nTC>levels. Something relatively inexpensive would be nice, too. Anyone \nTC>a suggestion?? Thanks.\n\nTry a Maxim \"MAX232CPE\" 8 pin dil, converts 5V to 12V for 232commms.\nWhat a clever little gizmo!", "I have two questions:\n\n1) What would be required to create a Macintosh PC network\n including laser printers, line printers, etc.?", "-------------------------------------\n\tApple //e System For Sale\n--------------------------------------\n\n\nApple //e, enhanced, 65c02 CPU w/64k on motherboard\nApple Extended 80-column card; expands memory to 128k total\n2 5.25\" Floppy Drives (Apple Disk ]['s) with Apple Controller Card\n1 3.5\" Floppy Drive (Apple UniDisk) with Apple Controller Card\nApple Monochrome Monitor\n2 Apple Super Serial Cards\n2400 Baud External modem\nOriginal documentation for all of the above\nProDOS & DOS 3.3 System software\nTalk is Cheap Communications software (original w/ docs)\nIsys FORTH (original w/ docs), fig-FORTH w/ original docs.\nSuper Sunday Footbal game (original w/ docs)\nTsushima Game (original w/ docs)\nBooks: 6502 Systems Programming, Apple Graphics and Arcade\nGame Design, Apple Machine Language for Beginners.\n\t--- All for $250 (shipping is probably $20-$30 more)", "\nAs of the third edition (June 92) the O'Reilly book (Vol 2) under\n\nBadMatch\n\tAny invalid setting of a window attribute\n\tAttribute besides win_gravity, event_mask, do_not_propogate+mask,\n\t override_redirect, or cursor specified for InputOnly window\n\tdepth non-zero for InputOnly\n\tParent of InputOutput is InputOnly\n\tborder_width is non-zero for InputOnly\n\tdepth or visual invalid for screen\n\twidth or height is 0\n", "I am looking for an inexpensive vlb card, and have yet to run across any\nreal reviews of them. One of the cards the local stores are pushing is\nthe Genoa 8500 for $125-140. Apparently it uses a Cirrus Logic acc. chip,\nbut I don't know which one (GD5426?). One of the shops I've spoken with \nclaims the card out-performs the Diamond Stealth 24 vl and the Orchid\nFahrenheit 1280 plus vl cards (S3 86C805 based), but that can't be true\nif it is using the GD5426. I like the price of the Genoa 8500, but if it\nlags in performance behind the S3 cards, I'll pay the extra $50 for one \nof them.\n\nAny info. on low end vlb cards would be appreciated. If I get replies via\nemail, I'll post summary info. if anyone else is interested.", "Could someone please do one of the following:\n1. Point to an init that allows me to turn off power management on my\n Duo 210.\n1. Write an init that would allow me to turn off ALL power management on\n Duo 210.\n2. Point me to documentation on power management so that I can write such\n an init.\n3. Explain to me why such an init is totally or partially impossible.\n\nIdeally, of course, I would like to be able to turn in on and off on the\nfly.\n\nSurely such an init would be very helpful to Powerbook owners who want to\ndo MIDI... I cannot imagine why it is not possible to do, unless it requires\nApple to divluge some secret. And if that is the case, the surely APPLE\ncould write the init. (Unless Apple brings out new models so fast these\ndays that even THEY don't know how they work).", "These word processing utilities all include complete printed\nmanuals and registration cards. I need to get rid of some excess.\nThey're the latest versions. I've priced these programs at less\nthan half the list price and significantly less than the cheapest\nmail-order price around.\n \n* GRAMMATIK 5 FOR WINDOWS, top-rated grammar checker, helps\nyou improve your writing by correcting grammar and usage\nmistakes, now owned by WordPerfect, list $99, sale $45.\n \n* GRAMMATIK 5 FOR DOS, top-rated grammar checker, helps you\nimprove your writing by correcting grammar and usage\nmistakes, now owned by WordPerfect, list $99, sale $45.\n \n* CORRECT GRAMMAR FOR WINDOWS 2.0, top-notch grammar\nchecker, from WordStar, list $119, sale $45.\n \n* CORRECT GRAMMAR FOR DOS 4.0, top-notch grammar checker,\nfrom WordStar, list $99, sale $40.\n \n* CORRECT WRITING 1.0 FOR WINDOWS, online writing manual\nfrom WordStar with tips about correct use of punctuation,\ncapitalization, compound words, numerals, bibliographies,\nfootnotes, and more, list $59, sale $25.\n \n* RANDOM HOUSE WEBSTER'S ELECTRONIC DICTIONARY & THESAURUS\nFOR WINDOWS 1.0, unlike spell checkers provides online\ndefinitions when you're not sure of a word's meaning, also\nhas larger thesaurus than most word processors for finding\njust the right word, list $119, sale $55.\n \n* RANDOM HOUSE WEBSTER'S ELECTRONIC DICTIONARY & THESAURUS\nFOR DOS 1.2, same functionality as Windows version, list\n$119, sale $55.\n \n* WORD FINDER PLUS FOR WINDOWS 1.0, huge online thesaurus\nwith more than one million synonyms, list $59, sale $25.\n \n* RANDOM HOUSE ENCYCLOPEDIA FOR DOS 1.02, online encyclopedia\nthat you can use without needing a CD-ROM drive, easier to\nuse and less expensive than a book-based encyclopedia, takes\n5.5 MB of hard disk space, list $119, sale $55.\n \n* HEADLINER 1.5, DOS-based database of great advertising and\nother headlines, proverbs, idioms, song titles, movie titles,\nand so on, great for advertising copywriters, newspaper\neditors, and, others trying to come up with catchy phrases,\nlist $195, sale $90.\n \n* WRITER'S TOOLKIT FOR WINDOWS 2.0, amazing collection of\nseven different word processing utilities in one package,\nincludes encyclopedia, great quotations, dictionary of\nabbreviations, dictionary with definitions, thesaurus, usage\nguide, and grammar checker, list $129, sale $65.\n \nIf you're interested in any of these programs, please phone me at\n215-885-7446 (Philadelphia), and I'll save the package for you.", "Please reply to the seller below.\n\nFor Sale:\n\nExabyte EXB-8500 8mm 5G Tape Drive\n-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-\n\n Writes 5G per 112M 8mm data grade tape UNcompressed\n Latest eeprom revs - fully compatible with Sun machines\n Black faceplate\n Seen Very Little Use (due to the fact that I have no 8mm tapes)\n\n Decided that money is more valuable than quick and convenient backups\n\n List: $3495.00\n Catalog Specials: ~$2495.00\n Your Price: $1900.00\n\n shipping extra\n\nPlease email responses to:", "I am currently searching for old video tapes of music groups of the early\n80's to the late 80's. At first I requested VHS formats, but now i'm accepting\neither VHS, 8MM, OR BETA. The type of format i'm interested in are the\ntype that most nite clubs or trendy clothing stores play. If you do have any\nof these tapes just send me a reply with a few groups listed, i'll reply back\nif the groups listed are the type i'm searching for. I'll gladly pay you what\nthey are worth or trade for other movie or music videos, thanks.", "\nIf it works it's only due to the heat produced by the laser.", "HARD DRIVES: (all drives include manuals, warranty)\n------------\nFujitsu 1.2 GIGabyte SCSI hard drive\n$1000\n \nQuantum 240 MEG SCSI prodrive\n$350\n \nFujitsu 90 MEG SCSI hard drive\n$175\n \nApple \"zero footprint\" hard drive case with power supply\n$75\n \nACCELLERATED VIDEO:\n-------------------\nApple 8/24GC (accellerated) graphics card with software (init)\nMillions of colors, FAST!\n$700\n \nHARDCOPY:\n---------\nApple Imagewriter II printer with spare print head (these aren't cheap)\n$300\nFAX machine: 9600 baud with leather travel case and many other accessories\n$200\n \nTo discuss the purchase of any of these items, call John at (408) 268-1769\nIf you get the answering machine, please leave a message with your name and\nphone number, letting me know which piece you are interested in.\n \nJohn\n(408) 268-1769", "Dear Netters:\n Could you mail the source code of the book:\n \"Advanced X window application programming\"\nby Johnson and Reichard \n TO ME?\n\n If you need any source code, just ask me.\n\n Thank you very much!\n\n\n Sincerely,\n\n Zeng, Qiyong.", "\n\nHi, I've come across a fast triangle fill-draw routine for mode 13h. By\ncalling this routine enough times, you have a fast polygon drawing routine.\n\nI think I ftp'ed from wuarchive.wustl.edu:/pub/MSDOS_UPLOADS/programming.\nI have a copy of it so I reupload it there. The triangle.txt file has this\nto say :\n\n", "Hi there!\n\nI wonder if anyone knows and can recommend me a good NuBus display\ncard for driving a 14\" multisync (NEC 3D)?\nThe NEC 3D can do horizontal refresh from 15.5 kHz to 38 kHz and\nvertical from 50 Hz to 90 Hz and can do max 1024x768 interlaced,\nthough I am looking for something more like 800x600 or 832x624\nnoninterlaced.\nIt would be very nice to find a card which can be programmed quite\nfreely within these limits and is capable to display at least\n8bits/pixel, preferably more.\n\nIs there anything on the market that comes even close?\n\n\nThanks\n", "One pair of kg1's in Oak finish with black grilles.\nIncludes original packaging.\n\n$200 + shipping Firm.\n", "A question in general about displaying NTSC through a Mac.\n\nIf I understand correctly, the Video Spigot can display NTSC\nin a small window as well as capture the data in Quicktime\nformat.\n\nHowever, if I want to use a larger window, what are my options?\nPerhaps I misunderstood the Video Spigot review... \n\nAlso, I am not interested in Quicktime. I would merely like to\nuse my Mac as a television from time to time. I have a nice\nSony 1430 monitor, and I would like to use it as a second TV\nwhen my wife is watching sitcoms on our regular TV. \n\nPerhaps some of the video cards for the Mac accept NTSC input?\nI have a IIsi, and I am willing to buy a NuBus adapter.\n\nThanks in advance for any help,", "From 9150618 Thu Apr 29 16:36:43 1993\nDate: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 16:36:42 +1000\nFrom: 9150618 (Gavin Fairlamb)\nTo: 9130037\nStatus: R\n\n\nHello, folks...\n I am doing a uni. project and was wondering if you could\n supply with some specific info. or references for info. regarding\n \t\t1). Considerations for installation of XWindows in\n\t\ta HP 9000(unknown model)\n 2). Motif, OPENLOOK, XToolkit????\n 3). X11, X11R.... \n 4). Glossary of any term on X \n\tWe considering this software for the project which deals\n in image analysis...\n\n Any info. would be greatly appreciated.", "THere is a defect in the 13\" hi-res monitors, bring it to a dealer and \nthey will replace the flyback for free, I think.\n\n\n\tI just heard of this problem at work today and we are fixing \nthem for free.\n", "\n >\n >: Thus, a deciBell (deci-, l., tenth of + Bell) is a fractional part of the\n >: original Bell. For example, SouthWestern Bell is a deciBell.\n >\n >Out of what hat did you pull this one? dB is a ratio not an RBOC!\n >\n >: And the measure of current, Amp, is actually named after both the AMP company\n >: and the Amphenol company. Both companies revolutionized electronics by\n >: simulatenously realizing that the performance of connectors and sockets\n >: were affected by the amount of current running through the wires.\n >\n >Sorry. The unit for current is the AMPERE which is the name of a french-man\n >named AMPERE who studied electrical current. The term AMP is just an abbreviation\n >of it. The company AMP came after the AMPERE unit was already in use.\n >\n >: The Ohmite company was the first to characterize resistances by numbers,\n >: thus our use of the Ohms...\n >\n >I don't know about this one, but it doesn't sound right.\n >\n >:\n >: Alexander Graham Bell, actually, is where Bell came from...\n >Well you got one thing right!\n >:\n\nActually, I think J. Chiu knows the score and is just being\nsilly. However, \"decibel\" is in fact 1/10th of a bel. He is\nright on that one, but I don't know if it was accidental or not.\n\nStrictly defined, a bel is the ratio of the log of two power levels,\nand a decibel is 1/10th of a bel so you have 10X decibels for every bel,\nhence bel=log(P2/P1) and decibel=10Xlog(P2/P1).\n\nThe bel, ohm, volt, farad, ampere, watt, hertz, henry, etc. are\nall named for pioneers in the field. It's a traditional and fine\nway to honor researchers who discover new knowledge in a new field.\nHertz was one of the most important of the early electronics explorers,\nbut had been left out in having a term or unit named after him\nuntil recently, (1960's, prior to that what is now a hertz was a cps.)\nAll the other units were defined many decades earlier.\n\n\n \n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n\n\n", "This probably is in a FAQ somewhere, but....\n\nI'm looking for Microsoft's internal speaker sound driver for Windows.\n\nShould be at Microsoft's FTP site, but I can't remember the name of the site...", "I'd appreciate if you can email or post you positive\nor negative experience with this monitor, especially\ncompared to to Nanao 550i.\nI'd summarize if I got multiple responses.\n\nThanks.\n\n-- \n-kin", "\n\n\n\n\tYeah! that's the guys!\n\n\n\tYeah, that sounds a lot like lasertag anyway.... :-)", "\n\n** I am considering either an inkjet or bubble jet printer. I've seen\n inkjet printers and I was impressed with the near lazer quality.\n\n I have heard a lot of bad things about the cheaper bubble-jet printers.\n Does the ink smudge very easily and take a long time to dry ?\n\n Thanks.\n\n\n ", "I have a Fostex X-26 4-Track Recorder for sale. It is in excellent condition\nand includes Dolby Noise Reduction, sub-mixing, 6 inputs and uses normal cassettes. If you are interested, make me an offer. Please respond to:\n\n\tzmed16@trc.amoco.com\n\nThanks,", "\nMost DOS X servers are terribly slow to use in my experience - and no, I guess \nperformance would be pretty bad. I believe the discussion is valid for an X \nserver on a decent workstation.\n", "\n >Anyway, over the weekend, I was resting on the sofa (in between chores),\n >and noticed that I briefly picked up what sounded like ham radio traffic\n >over my stereo and television, even though both were off. Also, all the\n >touch sensitive lights in my house start going wacko, cycling through \n >their four brightness states.\n\n >I presume that some ham operator with an illegal amplifier drove past\n >my house (I live on a busy thoroughfare); would this be a correct presumption?\n >What kind of power must he be putting out to cause the effects? \n >The affected equipment is about 100 feet from the road...\n\nHams are unlikely to have an illegal amp, and are also unlikely to\nhave a \"dirty\" amp.\n\n Hams can legally run up to 1500 watts. It is very unlikely, however,\n that a ham would be running that kind of power from a car. Ham rigs\n\nNot possible either. You'd need about a 300 amp alternator for\njust the amplifier. I can just see it. You need to slow\ndown on a downgrade, so you hit the push to talk button.\n\n for cars put out around 100 watts. It is possible that a 100 watt\n radio would cause interference to consumer electronic 100 feet \n away. Most TVs, stereos, and VCRs have very poor RF shielding.\n If you experience the problem frequently, it may be \n caused by a ham, CBer, or other radio operator in a base station\n nearby. The interference may have been caused by a radio \n transmitter used for other purposes, such as police, fire,\n etc. If you heard voices over your stereo, I think you are\n correct in assuming that the source is an RF transmitter.\n\n If you have frequent trouble, you may want to try the RF ferrite\n chokes available at Radio Shack. The interference is probably\n being picked up by your speaker wires, and those chokes can\n be installed on the wires very easily (without cutting them).\n Good instructions are included with the chokes.\n If that does not solve the problem, you may want to search your\n neighborhood for a radio operator. Look for antennas on the roof\n or car. Talk to him/her about your problem. There are things\n a radio operator can do to reduce interference.\n\nAnd please remember to be friendly when approaching your\nlocal radio operator. This person may or may not be the \ncause of your troubles, and you'll get better cooperation\nand help if you assume that he is going to be helpful (most\nare). It was amazing the accusations that we sometimes\ndealt with as I grew up. We were blamed for skip (ghost\npictures on the TV that occur at sunspot peaks), c.b.\ninterferance, dead grass :), you name it. \n\nBTW, the local operator should try and help you whether or\nnot he or she is directly responsible. It is part of\nbeing a good neighbor and that is how the FCC views it.\nToo bad they don't require the consumer equipment makers\nto take any precautions.\n\nLast, you can usually tell ham radio vs. CB. Ham operators are\nrequired to declare their call (sign) every so many minutes (no more\nthan 10). So if you hear \"This is WA1QT\" or some other call starting\nwith A, W or K and no more than 6 total characters, you heard a ham.\nCB'ers probably won't sign (I don't know that they're even required\nto) and fire/police have other private ids.\n\n\n\n\n\n", "Can somebody point out to me where I can find the specs for .GL and .FLI files\nfound on PC's?\n", "\n\nPeter, there's a radiosity package ahead. The only problem is: there \nare a few miles to sail ... ;-^\n\nLet's be serious... I'm working on a radiosity package, written in C++.\nI would like to make it public domain. I'll announce it in c.g. the minute\nI finished it. \n\nThat were the good news. The bad news: It'll take another 2 months (at least) \nto finish it. \n\nIn the meantime you may have a look at the file\n Radiosity_code.tar.Z\nlocated at\n compute1.cc.ncsu.edu\n\n(there are some other locations; have a look at archie to get the nearest)\n\nHope that'll help.\n\nYours\n\nStephan\n\n\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n Stephan Amann SIG Computer Graphics, University of Berne, Switzerland\n amann@iam.unibe.ch\n\t Tel +41 31 65 46 79\t Fax +41 31 65 39 65\n\n Projects: Radiosity, Raytracing, Computer Graphics\n", "Updated April 17, 1993. \n\nTITLE PRICE \n--------------------------------------------------------------\nAlpha Flight 13 (Wolverine appears) \t$ 8.40 \n\t 50 (Double Size)\t\t\t\t$ 1.05\n\t 51 (Jim Lee's first work at Marvel)\t$ 6.30\nAliens 1 (1st app Aliens in comics, 1st prnt, May 1988)\t$23.10\nAmazing Spider-Man 128 (3rd Vulture) $15.00\n 136 (Intro new Green Goblin) $22.00\n 137 (Green Goblin appears) $14.00\n 180 (Green Goblin appears) $11.00\n 238 (1st appearance Hobgoblin) $60.00\n 250 (Hobgoblin appears) $ 8.40\n 267 (Peter David script, Human Torch) $ 2.45\n 275 (r/origin Spiderman, Hobgoblin) $ 8.40\n 276 (Hobgoblin appears) $ 6.30\n 284 (Punisher, Hobgoblin appear) $ 6.30\n 291 (Spiderslayer appears) $ 3.15\n 293 (Kraven appears) $ 5.60\n 294 (Kraven appears) $ 5.60\n 306 (Todd McFarlane) $ 7.00\n 312 (Hobgoblin vs Green Goblin) $12.60\n 315 (Venom appears) $10.50\n\t\t320 (Todd McFarlane art)\t\t$ 4.90\n\t\t321 (Todd McFarlane art)\t\t$ 4.90\n 323 (Silver Sable, Paladin, C. America) $ 4.90\n\t\t324 (Sabretooth appears)\t\t$ 8.40\n 325 (Red Skull, Captain America) $ 4.90\n 328 (Hulk appears, last McFarlane) $ 5.25\n 330 (Punisher appears) $ 2.80\n 331 (Punisher appears) $ 2.80\n 337 (Hobgoblin appears) $ 2.45\n\t\t338\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.75\n\t\t342\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.75\n\t\t343\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.75\n 344 (Intro Cletus Kassady - Carnage) $ 4.90\n\t\t346 (Venom appears)\t\t\t$ 4.90\n\t\t347 (Venom appears)\t\t\t$ 4.90\n\t\t348\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.40\n\t\t349\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.40\n\t\t350 (52 pages)\t\t\t\t$ 2.10\n\t\t351\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.40\n\t\t352\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.40\n\t\t353 (Punisher, Darkbawk appear)\t\t$ 1.40\n\t\t354\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.40\n\t\t355 (Punisher appears)\t\t\t$ 1.40\n\t\t356 (Punisher appears)\t\t\t$ 1.40\n\t\t357 (Punisher appears)\t\t\t$ 1.40\n\t\t358 (Punisher appears)\t\t\t$ 1.40\n\t\t365 (1st App Spider-Man 2099, Holo-c)\t$ 4.20\n Annual 24 $ 2.45\n Annual 25 (1st solo Venom story) $ 3.50 \n Annual 26 (New Warriors, Venom) $ 3.50\nAnne Rice's Vampire Companion 1\t\t\t\t$ 5.00\nAnne Rice's Vampire Lestat 5\t\t\t\t$ 5.00\nArcher and Armstrong 1 (Frank Miller/Smith/Layton)\t$ 9.00\n\t\t 9 \t\t\t\t\t$ 2.50 \n\t\t 10\t\t\t\t\t$ 2.50\nAvengers 263 (1st appearance X-factor) $ 3.50\n\t 272 (Alpha Flight appears)\t\t\t$ 1.05\n\t 300 (68 Pages, new team)\t\t\t$ 1.75\n\t 306\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 0.70\n\t 324 (Alpha Flight appears)\t\t\t$ 0.70\n\t 329 (New team)\t\t\t\t\t$ 0.70\n\t Annual 15\t\t\t\t\t$ 2.45\n\t Annual 18\t\t\t\t\t$ 2.10\n\t Annual 19\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.75\nBatman Legends of the Dark Knight 1 (blue cover) $ 3.85\n\t\t\t\t 3 \t\t\t$ 2.00\nBatman Shadow of the Bat 1 (still in polybag) $ 5.00\nBatman Versus Predator 1 (Prestige edition, Predator)\t$ 5.00\n\t\t 1 (Prestige edition, Batman)\t$ 5.00\nBatman Year One (trade paperback, 1st printing) $ 7.00\nBloodshot 1 (Chromium cover, BWSmith Cover/Poster)\t$ 7.00\n\t 3\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 2.50\n\t 4\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 2.50\n\t 5\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 2.50\nDaredevil 131 (Origin Bullseye) $16.00\n 138 (Ghost Rider, Death's Head early app) $11.00\n 158 (Frank Miller art begins) $40.00\n 159 (Deathstalker appears, Frank Miller art) $20.00\n 169 (Elektra 2nd appearance, Bullseye) $ 5.60\n 170 (Bullseye, Kingpin appear) $ 4.20\n 182 (Punnisher appears, Frank Miller art) $ 8.40\n 183 (Punnisher appears, Frank Miller art) $ 8.40\n 184 (Punnisher appears, Frank Miller art) $ 8.40\n 196 (Wolverine appears) $ 8.40\nDarkhawk 2 (Spider-Man and Hobgoblin appear) $ 7.00\nDark Horse Presents 1 (1st app Concrete, 1st printing)\t$ 8.40\n\t\t 5 (Concrete appears)\t\t$ 2.80\n\t\t 25 \t\t\t\t\t$ 2.10\n\t\t 32 (Annual)\t\t\t\t$ 2.80\n\t\t 37 \t\t\t\t\t$ 1.40\n\t\t 42 (Aliens appear)\t\t\t$ 3.50\nDazzler 1 (X-Men appear)\t\t\t\t$ 1.40\n\t40\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 0.70\n\t41\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 0.70\n\t42 (Beast appears)\t\t\t\t$ 0.70\nDeathlok 1 $ 2.80\nDeathstroke the Terminator 1 (1st printing) $ 5.60\n 2 $ 3.50\nDefenders 125 (Intro New Defenders) $ 2.10\n\t 152 (Double size, X-Factor appears)\t\t$ 2.00\nDemon 13 (Lobo appears)\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.05\n 14 (Lobo appears)\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.05\n 15 (Lobo appears)\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.05\nEternal Warrior 1 (Miller cover)\t\t\t$11.00\n\t\t2 \t\t\t\t\t$ 7.00\n\t\t9\t\t\t\t\t$ 2.50\n\t\t10\t\t\t\t\t$ 2.50\n\t\t11\t\t\t\t\t$ 2.50\nFantastic Four 112 (Hulk vs. The Thing) $25.00\n\t 337 (Simonson art begins)\t\t$ 0.70\n\t 338 (Simonson art)\t\t\t$ 0.70\n\t 339 (Simonsom art)\t\t\t$ 0.70\n\t 344 (Simonson art)\t\t\t$ 0.70\n\t 345 (Simonson art)\t\t\t$ 0.70\n 347 (Art Adams cover art, Wolverine) $ 3.50\n 348 (Ghost Rider/Wolverine appear) $ 2.10\n 349 (Ghost Rider/Wolverine appear) $ 2.10\n 350 (52 pages) $ 1.75\n\t 351 \t\t\t\t\t$ 0.70\n\t 352 (Simonson art)\t\t\t$ 0.70\n\t 353 (Simonson art)\t\t\t$ 0.70\n\t 354 (Simonson art)\t\t\t$ 0.70\n\t 355 \t\t\t\t\t$ 0.70\n\t 356 (Fantastic Four vs New Warriors)\t$ 0.70\n 358 (80 page 30th anniversary issue) $ 2.25\n\t 359\t\t\t\t\t$ 0.70\n\t 360\t\t\t\t\t$ 0.70\n\t 361\t\t\t\t\t$ 0.90\n\t 362\t\t\t\t\t$ 0.90\n\t Annual 24\t\t\t\t$ 1.40\nFlash 27\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.05\n 28\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.05\n 48\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 0.70\n 50\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.25\n 53 (Superman/Flash race)\t\t\t\t$ 0.70\nGhost Rider 16 (Spider-man/Hobgoblin cover and story) $ 2.45\n 17 (Spider-man/Hobgoblin cover and story) $ 2.45\nGhost Rider and Cable 1\t(Sam Keith cover)\t\t$ 4.00\nGhost Rider and Captain America: Fear\t\t\t$ 5.00\nGuardians of the Galaxy 25 (Prism foil cover) $ 2.50\nHarbinger 10 (1st Appearance H.A.R.D. Corps)\t\t$ 7.00\n\t 16\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 3.00\n\t 17\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 2.50\n\t 18\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 2.50\nH.A.R.D. Corps 1 \t\t\t\t\t$ 5.00\n\t 6 \t\t\t\t\t$ 2.50\n\t 7\t\t\t\t\t$ 2.50\nHavok and Wolvreine: Meltdown 1\t\t\t\t$ 3.50\nIncredible Hulk 314 (Byrne art begins) $ 3.50\n 323 $ 1.40\n\t\t324 (1st app Grey Hulk since #1, 1962)\t$ 7.00\n 327 $ 1.40\n\t\t330 (1st McFarlane issue)\t\t$17.50\n\t\t331 (Grey Hulk series begins)\t\t$11.20\t\n 367 (1st Dale Keown art in Hulk) $14.00\n\t\t372 (Green Hulk appears, Keown art)\t$12.60\n\t\t373 (Keown art) $ 4.20\n 376 (Keown art, Grey vs Green Hulk) $ 4.20\n 377 (1st all new hulk, 1st prnt, Keown) $14.00\n\t\t381 (Keown c/a)\t\t\t\t$ 2.80\n 384 (Keown c/a) $ 2.80\n 385 (Keown c/a) $ 2.80\n 386 (Keown c/a) $ 2.80\n 387 (Keown c/a) $ 2.80\n 388 (Keown c/a) $ 2.80\n 389 (Keown c/a) $ 2.10\n 390 (Keown c/a) $ 2.80\n\t\t392 (Keown c/a)\t\t\t\t$ 2.80\n\t\t393 (Green foil stamped cover, Keown)\t$ 5.60\nInfinity Gauntlet 1 (Perez painted cover. Thanos) $ 7.00\n 2 (Thanos) $ 4.20\n 3 (Thanos) $ 2.80\nJohn Byrne's Next Men 3\t\t\t\t\t$ 3.00\n 4 $ 3.00\nJustice League America 46\t\t\t\t$ 0.70\n\t\t 47\t\t\t\t$ 0.70\n\t\t 50\t\t\t\t$ 1.25\n\t\t 52\t\t\t\t$ 0.70\nJustice League Quarterly 1\t\t\t\t$ 2.50\nJustice Society of America 1 (April 1991)\t\t$ 1.25\nKamandi 1 (Origin Kamandi, Kirby art) $25.00\n 2 (Kirby art) $15.00\n 3 (Kirby art) $ 9.00\n 7 (Kirby art) $ 5.00\nLast Generation 1 $ 2.10\nMagnus Robot Fighter 21 (New direction & logo begins)\t$ 5.00\n\t\t 23\t\t\t\t\t$ 3.00\n\t\t 24\t\t\t\t\t$ 2.50\nMarc Spector Moon Knight 25 (Ghost Rider appears)\t$ 2.50\nMarvel Comics Presents 1 (Wolverine, Silver Surfer) $ 7.00\n\t\t 2 (Wolverine, Master of KungFu)\t$ 3.50\n\t\t 3 (Wolverine, Master of KungFu)\t$ 3.50\n\t\t 4 (Wolverine, Master of KungFu)\t$ 3.50\n\t\t 5 (Wolverine, Daredevil)\t\t$ 3.50\n\t\t 6 (Wolverine, Hulk)\t\t$ 2.80\n\t\t 7 (Wolverine, Submariner)\t$ 2.80\n\t\t 10 (Wolverine, Man-Thing)\t$ 2.80\n\t\t 11 (Man-Thing, Ant-Man)\t\t$ 1.40\n\t\t 12 (Man-Thing, Colossus)\t\t$ 1.40\n\t\t 13 (Black Panther, Shanna)\t$ 1.40\n 14 (Black Panther, Nomad) $ 1.40\n\t\t 17 (Ron Lim art, Black Panther)\t$ 1.40\n\t\t 18 (Ron Lim art, Black Panther)\t$ 1.40\n\t\t 19 (Rob Liefeld art, Cyclops)\t$ 1.40\n\t\t 20 (Ron Lim art, Black Panther)\t$ 1.40\n\t\t 21 (Ron Lim art, Black Panther)\t$ 1.40\n\t\t 22 (Ron Lim art, Black Panther)\t$ 1.40\n 25 (Nth Man, Havok, Blk Panther) $ 1.40\n\t\t 26 (Black Panther, Havok, Hulk)\t$ 1.40\n\t\t 27 (Black Panther, Havok)\t$ 1.40\n\t\t 28 (Black Panther, Havok)\t$ 1.40\n\t\t 29 (Black Panther, Havok)\t$ 1.40\n\t\t 30 (Black Panther, Havok)\t$ 1.40\n\t\t 31 (Erik Larsen, Excalibur)\t$ 1.40\n\t\t 42 (Wolverine)\t\t\t$ 2.10\n 51 (Rob Liefeld, Wolverine) $ 2.10\n 52 (Rob Liefeld, Wolverine) $ 2.10\n 53 (Rob Liefeld, Silver Sable) $ 2.10\n 60 (Wolverine, Hulk) $ 4.20\n 62 (Jackson Guice, Deathlok) $ 5.60\n 63 (Poison, Thor, Scarlet Witch) $ 2.80\n 64 (Mark Texiera, Ghost Rider) $ 3.15\n 65 (Mark Texiera, Ghost Rider) $ 3.15\n 66 (Mark Texiera, Ghost Rider) $ 3.15\n 67 (Mark Texiera, Ghost Rider) $ 3.15 \n 72 (B.W.Smith, Weapon X) $ 5.60 \n\t\t 73 (B.W.Smith, Weapon X)\t\t$ 2.80\n\t\t 75 (B.W.Smith, Weapon X)\t\t$ 2.10\n\t\t 76 (B.W.Smith, Weapon X)\t\t$ 2.10\n 77 (B.W.Smith, Weapon X,Dracula) $ 2.10 \n\t\t 80 (B.W.Smith, Weapon X)\t\t$ 2.10\n\t\t 81 (B.W.Smith, Weapon X)\t\t$ 1.75\n 82 (B.W.Smith, Weapon X) $ 1.75\n 83 (B.W.Smith, Weapon X) $ 1.75\n 84 (B.W. Smith, Weapon X) $ 1.75\n 85 (1st Keith art and Jae Lee) $ 4.20\n\t\t 88 (Keith, Wolverine, Beast)\t$ 2.80\n\t\t 97 (Ghost Rider, Cable)\t\t$ 1.40\n\t\t 104 (Wolverine, Ghost Rider)\t$ 1.05\n 106 (Wolverine, Ghost Rider) $ 1.05\nMaxx 1 (Sam Keith) $ 3.00\nMetropol 1 (Ted McKeever) $ 3.00\nMighty Mouse 2\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.25\n\t 4\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t 5\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t 6\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t 10\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\nMoon Knight 1 (1980)\t\t\t\t\t$ 3.00\n'Nam 6 $ 1.70\n 7 $ 1.70\n 52 (Frank Castle (Punisher)) $ 3.15\nNew Mutants 18 (Intro new Warlock, Magus) $ 6.30\n 85 (Rob Liefeld/Todd McFarlane cover) $ 1.05\n\t 86 (McFarlane cover, 1st app Cable - cameo)\t$10.50\n 88 (Rob Liefeld, 2nd Cable) $14.00\n 89 (Rob Liefeld, 3rd Cable) $10.50\n 90 (Rob Liefeld, Sabretooth appears) $ 8.40\n 91 (Rob Liefeld, Sabretooth appears) $ 8.40\n\t 92 (Rob Liefeld cover)\t\t\t$ 3.50\n 93 (Rob Liefeld, Wolverine vs Cable) $10.50 \n 94 (Rob Liefeld, Wolverine vs Cable) $10.50\n 96 (Rob Liefeld, X-Tinction agenda) $ 8.40 \n 97 (Rob Liefeld, Wolverine/Cable cover) $ 8.40\n 98 (1st app Deadpool, Gideon, Domino) $ 8.40\n\t 99 (1st app Feral of X-Force)\t\t$ 5.40 \n 100 (1st app X-Force) $ 6.30\n\t Annual 4 (Evolutionary War)\t\t\t$ 2.10\n\t Annual 5 (1st Liefeld art on New Mutants)\t$12.60\n\t Annual 6\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.40\n Annual 7 (2nd app X-Force) $ 8.40\n\t Summer Special 1 (Art Adams art)\t\t$ 2.10\nOlympians 1 (McFarlane) $ 2.80\nOmega Men 3 (1st appearance Lobo) $ 7.00\n 10 (1st full Lobo story) $ 7.00\n Annual 1 $ 1.05\n 2 $ 1.05\nPower Man & Iron Fist 78 (3rd appearance Sabretooth) $25.00\n 84 (4th appearance Sabretooth) $20.00\nPower Pack 27 (Wolverine and Sabretooth appear) $ 7.00\nPredator: Big Game 3 (Contains trading cards) $ 2.10\nPunisher 9 (Wilce Portacio) $ 7.70\nPunisher and Captain America: Blood and Glory 1\t\t$ 5.00\n\t\t\t\t\t 2 \t$ 5.00\n\t\t\t\t\t 3\t\t$ 5.00\nPunisher P.O.V 1 (Starlin script, Wrightson art) $ 5.00\n 2 (Starlin script, Wrightson art) $ 5.00\n 3 (Starlin script, Wrightson art) $ 5.00\nPunisher War Journal 16 (Jim Lee art)\t\t\t$ 3.50 \n 29 (Ghost Rider appears) $ 1.75\n 30 (Ghost Rider appears) $ 1.75\n 31 $ 1.25\n 32 $ 1.25\n 35 $ 1.25\n 36 $ 1.25 \n 38 $ 1.25\n 39 $ 1.25\n 40 $ 1.25\nPunisher War Zone 1 (Die-cut cover) $ 2.45\n 2 $ 1.75\nRagman 1 (Pat Broderick, Origin Ragman) $ 3.00\nRocketeer Special Edition (Dave Stevens art, 1984)\t$ 7.00 \nShadowman 13\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 2.50\n\t 14\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 2.50\nSimpsons Comics and Stories 1 (Polybagged special ed.)\t$10.00\nSolar Man of the Atom 18\t\t\t\t$ 3.00\n\t\t 19\t\t\t\t$ 2.75\n\t\t 20\t\t\t\t$ 2.75\n\t\t 21\t\t\t\t$ 2.50\n\t\t 22\t\t\t\t$ 2.50\nSpectacular Spider-Man 81 (Punisher appears) $ 9.80\n 93 (Answer appears) $ 2.10\n 94 (Cloak and Dagger appear) $ 2.10\n 95 (Cloak and Dagger appear) $ 2.10\n 99 (Spot appears) $ 2.10\n 116 (Sabretooth appears) $ 3.50\n 117 (Sabretooth appears) $ 3.50\n 119 (Sabretooth appears) $ 3.50\n 124 (Dr. Octopus appears) $ 1.75\n 130 (Hobgoblin appears) $ 2.80\n 131 (Kraven appears) $ 4.20\n 132 (Kraven appears) $ 3.50\n 140 (Punisher appears) $ 2.10\n 142 (Punisher appears) $ 3.50\n 143 (Punisher appears) $ 3.50\n 147 (1st app New Hobgoblin) $14.00\n 152 (Origin Lobo Bros, Punisher) $ 1.40\n\t\t 157\t\t\t\t$ 1.40\n\t\t 158 (Spider-Man gets new powers)\t$ 8.40\n\t\t 159 (Cosmic Spider-Man appears)\t$ 5.60\n\t\t 160\t\t\t\t$ 1.05\n 189 (1st ed Hologram, Hobgoblin) $ 5.60\n Annual 10 (McFarlane story) $ 1.75\nSpider-Man 1 (Gold edition, direct sale) $ 3.50\n 1 (Regular edition, green, unbagged) $ 3.50 \n 5 (Lizard, Calypso appear, McFarlane) $ 2.80\n 6 (Hobgoblin, Ghost Rider appear) $ 4.20\n 7 (Hobgoblin, Ghost Rider appear) $ 4.20\n 13 (Black costume returns) $ 3.50\n 14 (Black costume, Morbius appear) $ 5.00\n 16 (McFarlane/Liefeld art, X-Force appears) $ 3.00\n 18 (Sinister Six, Hulk appear) $ 2.00\n 19 (Hulk, Deathlok appear) $ 2.00\n\t 26 (Origin retold, hologram cover)\t\t$ 3.00\nStar Trek the Next Generation 1 (Feb 1988, DC mini) $ 7.00 \nStar Trek the Next Generation 1 (Oct 1989, DC comics) $ 6.30\n 2 $ 4.20\nStrange Adventures (dozens, but in varying high grades) ASK\nSwamp Thing 72 $ 1.25\n 73 (John Constantine appears) $ 1.25\n Annual 3 $ 1.40\nTales of the Teen Titans 44 (Deathstroke app/orogin) $ 5.60\nTerminator 1 (Dark Horse) $ 4.20\nTerminator: Secondary Objectives 1 $ 2.10\nTerminator 2 Judgement Day 1 $ 1.00\nThor 374 (Mutant Massacre, X-Factor, Sabretooth app) $ 5.60\n 432 (Eric Masterson becomes new Thor) $ 2.10\nWarlock and the Infinity Watch 2 (Starlin scripts)\t$ 2.80\n\t\t\t 3\t\t\t$ 2.10\n 4 $ 1.60\n\t\t\t 5 \t\t\t$ 1.60\n\t\t\t 6\t\t\t$ 1.60\n 7 $ 1.25\n 8 $ 1.25\n 9 (Gamora vs Thanos) $ 1.25\nWeb of Spider-Man 2\t\t\t\t\t$ 4.90\n\t\t 3\t\t\t\t\t$ 4.90\n\t\t 4\t\t\t\t\t$ 3.50\n\t\t 5\t\t\t\t\t$ 3.50\n\t\t 8 (Thunder appears) $ 3.15\n 16 (Magma appears) $ 2.30\n 18 $ 2.30\n 20 $ 2.30\n 21 $ 2.30\n 29 (Hobgoblin, Wolverine appear) $ 9.10\n 30 (Origin Rose, Hobgoblin appears) $ 8.40\n\t\t 47 (Hobgoblin appears)\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 52\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 66 (Green Goblin as super-hero)\t$ 1.40\n\t\t 67 (Green Goblin as super-hero)\t$ 1.40\n\t\t 68 \t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 71 \t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 72 \t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 73\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 74\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 75\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 76\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 77\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 78\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 79\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 80\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 81\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 82\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 83\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 84 (Rose & Hobgoblin story)\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 85 (Rose & Hobgoblin story)\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 86 (Rose & Hobgoblin story)\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 87 (Rose & Hobgoblin story)\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 90 (Hologram cover, polybagged)\t$ 4.20\n\t\t 91\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t Annual 3\t\t\t\t$ 2.00\nWerewolf by Night 33 (2nd appearance Moon Knight) $20.00\n 37 (Moon Knight appears) $ 5.00\nWolverine 10 (Before claws, 1st battle with Sabretooth)\t$16.80\n\t 41 (Sabretooth claims to be Wolverine's dad)\t$ 7.00\n\t 42 (Sabretooth proven not to be his dad)\t$ 3.50\n\t 43 (Sabretooth/Wolverine saga concludes)\t$ 2.80\nWolverine 1 (1982 mini-series, Miller art)\t\t$21.00\nWonder Woman 267 (Return of Animal Man) $13.00\n Annual 1 $ 2.00\n 2 $ 2.00 \nX-Factor 47 $ 1.05\n 51 (Sabretooth appears) $ 3.50\n 52 (Sabretooth appears) $ 3.50\n 53 (Sabretooth appears) $ 3.50\n\t 57 \t\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t 62 (X-Tinction Agenda, Jim Lee cover)\t\t$ 4.20\n\t 63 (Whilce Portacio art begins)\t\t$ 4.20 \n 69 (Whilce Portacio art) $ 1.40\n 70 (Last \"Old Team\" issue) $ 1.40\n Annual 6 (New Warriors, X-Force appear) $ 1.75\nX-Force 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, X-Force card) $25.00\n 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, Shatterstar card) $15.00\n 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, Deadpool card) $15.00\n 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, Sunspot/Gideon) $15.00\n 1 (Bagged, Cable card) $ 4.20\nX-Men 210 (Mutant Massacre, Intro Marauders) $12.60\n 211 (Mutant Massacre, Marauders appear) $12.60\n 212 (Wolverine battles Sabretooth) $22.00\n 213 (Wolverine battles Sabretooth) $22.00\n 218 (Art Adams cover)\t\t\t\t$ 2.80\n 226 (Fall of the mutants)\t\t\t\t$ 5.60\n 239 (Inferno)\t\t\t\t\t$ 2.80\n 245 (Rob Liefeld art)\t\t\t\t$ 2.10\n 253 (All new X-Men begin)\t\t\t\t$ 2.80\n 267 (Jim Lee art series begins)\t\t\t$ 8.40\n 276 (Jim Lee art)\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.05\n 277 (Last Jim Lee art)\t\t\t\t$ 1.05\n 279\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.05\n 280\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.05\n 281 (New X-Men team, 1st printing)\t\t$ 4.20\nX-O Manowar 13\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 3.00\n 15\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 3.00\n\t 16\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 3.00\n\nAll comics are in near mint to mint condition, are bagged in shiny \npolypropylene bags, and backed with white acid free boards. Shipping is\n$1.50 for one book, $3.00 for more than one book, or free if you order \na large enough amount of stuff. I am willing to haggle.\n\nI have thousands and thousands of other comics, so please let me know what \nyou've been looking for, and maybe I can help. Some titles I have posted\nhere don't list every issue I have of that title, I tried to save space.", "I am having troubleloading my Logitech Scanman Driver (latest version) into\nhigh memory with the devicehigh command in MSDOS 6. It gives me an\n'invalid parameters' message. Is it necessary to change some of the scanner\ndriver parameters when loading high?\nAny help would be appreciated\n ", "I have the following software for sale, prices are neogotiable,\n\nMS-Window 3.1, by Gateway, with manuals, $20\nMS-Work\twith manuals, $30\nPC-TOOLS 7.1 with all manuals, $40\nMS-DOS 6.0!\t$20\n\nAll softwares are almost new", "\n I was wondering if anyone knows of a graphics package for the PC that\n will do compositing of a series of pictures?\n\n What I mean by \"compositing\" is, say I have a live video clip\n (digitized) panning around a living room, and a computer-generated\n bird flying around the screen. I want to combine these two series of\n pictures so that everywhere where the bird frames are black, I want\n the living room picture to show through. Yes, I realize I can do this\n with a genlock, and I do own a genlock, but I want to be able to do\n manual compositing also. It's ok if I have to composite one frame at\n a time; I assumed I'd have to do that anyway. But being able to\n composite a series of frames would be even better.\n\n I've looked around and I haven't found a PC package that will perform\n this. Help, please!\n\nIf you can get the live animation and the computer-generated animation\ninto AutoDesk Animator .FLI or .FLC format, AutoDesk Animator will do\nthis for you. It can take one animation, make a certain color\n\"clear\", and overlay it over another animation. I do not have a way\nright now to convert .AVI or .MPG files to animator files. Animator\nwill also import a series of .GIF files to create an animation, so if\nyour video capture stuff can create this is might work.", "\n\nThe problem is that the process is inherently complicated ! The IJG's code is\npretty good if you ask me, and I have watched it go through many many cycles of\nrevision.\n\nTry getting a good book on the subject, that will explain the algorithms.\n\nSpecifically \"JPEG Still Image Compression Standard\" by Pennebaker & Mitchell,\nVNR 1993, ISBN 0-442-01272-1.\n\nBTW. I presume your comment about \"good\" code wasn't meant to sound as offensive\nas it does.\n", "I saw an imaging program some time ago on an Amiga that had\nCross, Sobel and Roberts filters for edge detection. \n\nCan anybody direct me to these algorithms.\n\nPaul Denize\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\nPaul Denize Internet: PDenize@Waikato.ac.nz\nDepartment of Computer Science\nUniversity of Waikato phone: ++64 7 8562-889\nHamilton Ext 8743\nNEW ZEALAND fax : ++64 7 8560-135", "Hello world,\n \nI'm attempting to write an 8051 simulator on an IBM PC for teaching\npurposes, so that first-year elec-eng students can 'see' the workings\nof the microcontroller as it performs operations - logical ands, for\nexample, being shown on a bit-by-bit basis (1 AND 1 = 1) so that the\nstudents can see that it's not really a mystical process, but totally\nlogical, for example. Every instruction should show some 'working',\nand not just alter register/memory/port contents.\n \nDoes anyone know of any freely-available example simulation code,\nin Pascal or Modula-2, that would show me where I'm going wrong\nin writing my simulator? [I'm using Ayala's -The 8051 Microcontroller-\nas a reference - the simulator supplied with the package is overkill\nfor simple teaching purposes, I feel, and there's no source code to help\nyou roll your own.]\n \nPlease email me if you can help, or if you know of somewhere more \nappropriate I should be posting this - I rarely scan these groups.\n \nThanks,", "Excerpts from misc: 27-Apr-93 Re: X Toolkits Sivesh Pradhaan@rebels.b (423)\n\n\nYou can use telnet:", "\nThe oclock widget was written using the SHAPE extension.\nYou can do the same in your widgets. Few current widgets\nsupport SHAPE, so you'll have to subclass them to add that\nfunctionality.\n", "Thanks for the resposes as they were all good ideas and I am looking at using a\ncouple of the ideas. I recieved in the mail today the spec sheets on the mil.\nspec version of Exar's XR-2240 timer/counter chip. It is stable down to -50 C\nand sucks very little power. They show an application for a ultra-long time\ndelay (up to several years depending on the RC time constant). In this\napplication, they have two of them cascaded together. The reset and trigger\npins of both chips are tied together and the timebase of the second chip is\ndisabled. In this configuration, the output is high when the system is reset.\nWhen triggered, the output goes low and stays that way for a total of 65,536 x\nthe timing cycle of the first chip. The total timing cycle of the two chips can\nbe programmed from To = 256 x R x C to 65,536 x R x C in 256 steps by selecting\nany combination of the counter outputs to the timer output. The beauty of it\nis, the timebase chip would only have to have a 100uF timing cap and a 391K\nresistor for 39.1 seconds per timing cycle. So I can get a maximum of\n2,562,457.6 seconds between timing cycles (39.1 x 65,536 or about 29 days !)\nOf course, that's much more than I need (14 days). But the counter allows for\n256 binary steps that can be selected for the output for the 'pellet puker'.\nAfter the first 14 days and it trips, it would reset its self for the next 14\nday timing cycle and so forth.\n\nPower is still a problem though. A few ideas that you suggested was to bury the\nelectronics in a hole dug in the snow (as an insulator) and put the pellet\npuker up on a tower above the estimated snow fall with a solar panel on it to\nkeep a charge on a lithium battery pack. I like that idea ;-) This thing has to\nwork for at least six weeks for three samples and the gas valves are 12 volts\nto spit the pellets out onto the snow. Anyway, I ordered the XR-2240's to see\nwhat I can do with them. Should be interesting (as long as I'm not the one that\nhas to go digging up the pellets in the middle of Antartica freezing my buns\noff ;-)\n\nThanks again everyone...", "\n#I use xwd/xpr (from the X11R5 dist.) and various programs of the\n#ppm-tools to print hardcopies of colored X windows. My problem is,\n\nI don't like xpr. It gives (at least, the X11R4 version does) louzy\noutput: the hardcopy looks very grainy to me.\nInstead, I use pnmtops. This takes full advantage PostScript, and\nlets the printer do the dirty job of dithering a (graylevel)\nimage to black and white dots.\n\nSo: if you have a PostScript printer, try:\n\txwdtopnm |\t# convert to PPM\n\t[ppmtopgm |]\t\t# .. to graylevel for smaller file to print\n\tpnmtops -noturn |\t# .. to PostScript\n\tlpr\t\t\t# print\n\npnmtops Has several neat options, but use them with care:\nIf you want your image to be 4\" wide, use:\n\tpnmtops -noturn -scale 100 -width 4\n-noturn Prevents the image from being rotated (if it is wider than it\n\tis high)\n-width 4 Specifies the PAPER width (not the image width - see below)\n-scale 100 Is used because if the image is small, it may fit within a\n\twidth less than 4\", and will thus be printed smaller than 4\" wide.\n\tIf you first scale it up a lot, it will certainly not fit in 4\", and\n\twill be scaled down by pnmtops automatically to fit the specified\n\tpaper width. \n\tIn short: pnmtops will scale an image down to fit the paper size,\n\tbut it will not blow it up automatically.\n\nHope this helps.\nMarcel.", " >With that in mind...\n\nI just recently purchased the GCC BLP Elite and I really like it. My\nneeds\nare much the same as what you describe. In addition, I wanted to get one\nthat\nI could access via AppleTalk, so that eliminated the new line of\ninexpensive \nprinters from Apple. The print quality is good to excellent based on\nwhat \nfont you're using and what paper you use. I'm still experimenting with \ndifferent papers, but a medium grade laser printer paper seems to work\nfine.\n\nPrinting envelopes, transpariencies, letter head, or other single feed\njobs is\nvery easy. There is an adjustable, automatic centering, guide on top of\nthe\nsheet feeder which aligns the paper properly (and doesn't feed a sheet\nfrom\nthe sheet feeder, as some do).\n\n(I have no affiliation with GCC, just a satisfied customer.)\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nEarl D. Fife | Department of Mathematics\nfife@calvin.edu | Calvin College\n(616)957-6403 | Grand Rapids, MI 49546", "The copyright notices themselves seem to be making conficting\nrestrictions. I do not know how to reconcile:\n\n/* Copyright Notice\n * ================\n * Copyright 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993 by John Bradley\n * \n * Permission to use, copy, and distribute XV in its entirety, for \n * non-commercial purposes, is hereby granted without fee, provided that\n * this license information and copyright notice appear in all copies.\n *\n\n... with:\n\n *\n * XV is shareware for PERSONAL USE only. You may use XV for your own\n * amusement, and if you find it nifty, useful, generally cool, or of\n * some value to you, your non-deductable donation would be greatly\n * appreciated. $25 is the suggested donation, though, of course,\n * larger donations are quite welcome. Folks who donate $25 or more\n * can receive a Real Nice bound copy of the XV manual for no extra\n * charge.\n * \n * Commercial, government, and institutional users MUST register their\n * copies of XV, for the exceedingly REASONABLE price of just $25 per\n * workstation/X terminal. Site licenses are available for those who\n * wish to run XV on a large number of machines. Contact the author\n * for more details.\n...\n\nIt strikes me that the first part gives you the right to use, without\nfee, the program for noncommercial purposes if the info appears in all\ncopies. This seems to cover educational institutions despite what the\nrest of the notice says. And the first part doesn't say subject to\nthe conditions outlined below... \n\nChris", "-----Or, if you need to use a service bureau and they're only set up to use\nType 1 fonts. From what I've heard (pure hearsay) the results of outputting\nTT fonts as Type 1 is _not_ as good as using high-quality Type 1 fonts in\nthe first place.", "\nIMHO this whole discussion named \"Motif looks like MS-Windogs\" is totally\nstupid. The only thing remotely influenced here can be the Motif Window\nManager, that features an arrangement of buttons and menus somewhat\nsimiliar to this of the MS-W windowmanaging agent, however its name is.\nBut MWM is only a SMALL part of Motif, in fact, MWM and Motif can work\nwithout each other, and if one doesn't like MWMs outfit for some reason,\nhe switches to another windowmanager. All this doesn't influence Motif,\nwhich is a toolkit of widgets to write applications, and this toolkit\nis IMHO uncomparable to MS-W, because it is much more wellorganized and\nfeatures alot of goodies more than the MS-W interface.\n\nYou cannot say \"A Porsche looks like a VW Käfer\" ONLY because they have the\nwheel and the gear at the same position. Motif and MS-W are complete\ndifferent worlds, only one element of the Motif world has some gear and wheel\nat the same position as MS-W.\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nYou do not need the SDK. What you need (and can get free) are\n\nLocation: ftp.cica.indiana.edu\nindex: /pub/pc/win3/INDEX\n\nFirst get /pub/pc/win3/uploads/what.zip (~1.3M) This contains the help\ncompiler among other things. It is free from Microsoft.\n\nThen get these (I think these are free too)\n\ndir:\t/pub/pc/win3/programr\nfiles: hag.zip, whag.zip wfwhlp.zip\n\nThese are shareware\n\ndir: /pub/pc/win3/util\nfiles:\thwab21.zip, qdhelp.zip, qdtool.zip\n\ndir:\t/pub/pc/win3/winword\nfiles:\tdrhelpev.zip (macros for word 2.0 to convert doc to hlp files).\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------\nShiva Shenoy | e-mail: shenoy@iastate.edu \n2066 Black,Dept of AEEM,ISU,Ames,IA 50010 | Office: (515)-294-0082\n-- ", "I still have about 70 records left on hand, all in pristine condition\n(except where noted), quite a few out-of-print and more than a few\nimports in the bunch.\n\nRather than selling the majority for $3-4 each, I'm looking to barter\npackages for stuff that you might be selling over USENET. I'll also\ntrade for other records in very good condition that you've replaced\nwith CD, as well as pre-recorded videos on Beta or VHS. In the past,\nI've been able to make deals based on the equivalent list/store price\n(e.g., 1 CD = 1 movie in Beta format*) to get around what you or I\nmight have originally paid (as if we can even remember! (-;) **\n\n[At this time, I'm looking for a set of working AA NiCad rechargable\nbatteries ... if you have some lying around, and they're sound, RSVP!]\n\nSo if you're curious, RSVP for my list and if you see anything that\nyou like, send back a proposal for a record package and a copy of\nyour ad for the stuff you're selling ... thanks!\n\ngld\n\n* i.e., the imports and out-of-prints are also valued at 1 used CD;\n\n** I once got a 2400 baud external modem for 10 records (list $81);\nAnybody got a nice, unused blender for making frozen margaritas? (-;\n\nPS: There have been NO additions since the last posting in February;\n the list has only shrunk as I've made a few deals since.", "\nThe only difference is the time the driver gets loaded. mouse.sys will be\nloaded during the config.sys and therefor before the command.com. mouse.com\nwill be loaded during autoexec.bat and so after the command.com.\n\n\nmouse.com could be started from the commandline after the booting and it\ncould - perhaps - be unloaded, if no other driver is loaded after it.\nThe working of both drivers is totally the same.\n\nWhen I ran dos, I preferred loading most of the drivers in autoexec.bat,\nbecause some programs won't run with some drivers and I could choose the\nones I needed during startup. But with DRDOS6, this advantage is gone,\nbecause DRDOS lets you choose in config.sys which drivers should be loaded.\n\nMichael", "Is there an Xt call to give me my application context?\nI am fixing up an X/Motif program, and am trying to use XtAppAddTimeOut,\nwhose first argument is the app_context. What call can I use\nto give me this value?\n\n\nThanks,\n Todd Greene\n masc0442@ucssun1.sdsu.edu", "We just received an AppleOne Color Scanner for our lab. However,\nI am having trouble getting reasonable scanned output when printing \na scanned photo on a LaserWriter IIg. I have tried scanning at a \nhigher resolution and the display on the screen appears very nice. \nHowever, the printed version is coming out ugly! \n\nIs this due to the resolution capabilities of the printer? Or are \nthere tricks involved to get better quality? Or should we be \ngetting something (like PhotoShop) to \"pretty up\" the image?\nI will appreciate any suggestions.\n\nThanks in advance,\n\n-Kris ", "HELP, PROBLEM 486/33MHZ HANGS IN EXTENDED MODE TRYING TO\nACCESS DRIVES A: OR B: , SOMETIMES IT WILL DO DIR , SOMETIMES WILL HANG\nON ACCESS SOMETIMES WILL WHEN TYING A TEXT FILE.\n\nHARDWARE:\nAMERICAN MEGATREND MOTHERBOARD\nAMI BIOS 91\nCONNER 85MB HARD DRIVE\nTRIDENT 1 MEG SVGA", "\nI don't think FD is a problem. Since FD is much sloooooooowwwwwwer\nthan HD, the overhead of double buffering doesn't matter.\n\nKen Nakata", "\nDo you have the X source code? Simply look in mit/clients/xwininfo/xwininfo.c and you\nwill find out exactly how to do it. :-)", " Where can I get xman source? I would rather get \nxman for an HP 9000/700, but source will do.\n\n", "\nLook at the 4053. This is a triple 2-to-1 transmission-gate analog\nmultiplexer, with positive and negative power supplies (can be run\nfrom a single-ended supply as well). With dual supplies, the logic\ninputs still range from ground (0 Volts) to VDD.\n\nThis is a neat (well, I think so) design for a switchable-polarity\namplifier:\n\n +-----/\\/\\/\\-------+\n | |\n | /--------\\ |\nINPUT -+-/\\/\\/\\--+----| - | |\n | | opamp |----+------- OUTPUT\n +-/\\/\\/\\--+----| + |\n | \\--------/\n |\nCONTROL\t---------X (analog switch)\n |\n |\n ---\n GND\n\nAll resistors are equal-value. When the analog switch is closed,\nthe amp is inverting-gain-of-one. With the switch open, it is\nnon-inverting-gain-of-one. You can clean up the circuit to trim\nout input offset current if this hurts the balance (this would show\nup as carrier feed-through).\n\nFor high frequencies, the slew-rate of the opamp might cause problems,\nespecially if it isn't symmetrical (and it usually isn't).\n", "Hi everybody,\n\nCan anyone name an anonymous ftp-site where I can find the sources\nof the PBM-PLUS package (portable bit/gray/pixel map).\nI would like to compile and run it on a Sun Sparcstation.", "Hi:\nOn the 1024x768x256 mode, the font sizes of Window Menu, Help Window are very \nsmall. Can I change the font and font size for these windows? My computer is \n80486 DX-33, the Video Card is ATI D24. Could some experts please email the \nanswer to GRZHENG@vax2.Concondia.ca. Thanks in advance.", "\nWindows NT or WNT can also be derived by the next letter in the alphabet\nof VMS - same as HAL and IBM. You might recall that the chief architect\nof VMS is also chief designer of WNT.\n\nRajiev Gupta\n", "If some kind person has access to a mathematical package such as Mathematica,\nMaple,... I would like to ask you for the solution to the following problem.\nI sometimes have algebra problems like this where I would like a simplified\nsymbolic solution. Is there a FTP-able package out there that can handle such\nbeasts?\n\n I would like to solve the following ray - Bezier patch intersection\n for the scalar constant t in:\n\n P + t * V = Q(u,w)\n (origin point in 3D) (dir vector 3D)\n\n in terms of only:\n \n P V P and various scalars\n (origin) , (dir 3D) , (i,j) 0 <= i,j <= 3\n\n where:\n\n T\n Q(u,w) = [U] [N] [B] [M] [W]\n\n\n\n n n-1 n-2 n-3\n [U] = [ u u u u .... u 1 ] ( 0.0 <= u <= 1.0 )\n 3 2\n = [ u u u 1 ] ( in my particular case )\n\n\n n n-1 n-2 n-3 T\n [W] = [ w w w w .... w 1 ] ( 0.0 <= w <= 1.0 )\n\n 3 2 T\n = [ w w w 1 ] ( in my particular case )\n\n\n T\n [ N ] = [ M ] = | -1 3 -3 1 | ( for my particular case )\n | 3 -6 3 0 |\n | -3 3 0 0 |\n | 1 0 0 0 |\n\n\n [ B ] = | P P P P | (control points in 3D space)\n | (0,0) (0,1) (0,2) (0,3) |\n | |\n | P P P P |\n | (1,0) (1,1) (1,2) (1,3) |\n | |\n | P P P P |\n | (2,0) (2,1) (2,2) (2,3) |\n | |\n | P P P P |\n | (3,0) (3,1) (3,2) (3,3) |\n\n\n\n Thanx,", "\nYou should be able to pick up an ADB cable at any computer wiring store...\nI'd give you the address of Alberta Computer cable in Calgary, but a: I'm\nin Victoria (B.C., Canada) and b: I don't think an address in Calgary would\nhelp you too much....basically however I just phoned them up, and they\ncharged me approx. $15 cnd for a custom made ADB extension cable for my mouse.\n\nHope this helps...", "This may be the dumbest question of the year, but is there a\nway to 'piggyback' or expand a 6-slot motherboard (all 16-bit)\nto get the usual 8? My case has slots for 8, and I'd like to\nget a scanner, but with all my other cards I'm already max'd out!\nI'm hoping that a simple solution exists, e.g. an adapter that turns\none slot into three. I don't mind if it turns it into 8-bit slots,\nas I can put my I/O card, MIDI card, and Soundblaster card there.\nMy other cards are 16 bit (IDE/Floppy, SVGA, modem).\n\nIf there is such an expander, does that screw up performance of\neverything else? I'd hate to buy a new motherboard! :-( \n", "I just picked up a second-hand \"color option\" for the NEC P5200\n24pin dot matrix printer. Alas, there were no installation instructions,\nso I am totally confused on WHY it WON'T GO IN!\n\nDo I have to remove the actaual print head? It seems *almost* to fit,\nbut not quite.\n\nPlease... any info would be most appreciated!\n", "Seth> I fail to see any advantage whatsoever with this kind of\nset-up.\n Seth> What a DUMB idea.\n\nSo don't buy one.\n\nKristen\n\n\n This copy of Freddie 1.2.5 is being evaluated.\n", ": worked fine.) Please note: none of the software or hardware parameters\n: were changed, only the phone line itself. Is my new modem faulty? What\n: can I do? \n: \n: -- \n: David Thomas Dudek / v098pwxs@ubvms.bitnet \\ __ _ The Cybard\n\nI'm arguing with the phone company about a similar problem. We\ninstalled a second phone line in our home (for our kids), and whenever\none of them is on THEIR line, the modem returns \"NO DIAL TONE\" on its\nline.\n\nWhen we pick up the phone and listen, we can hear my kids' voices\n\"bleed\" through. Whenever we can hear this, the modem won't dial (even\nthough the dial tone is loud and clear through the modem speaker).\n\nI think it's the phone company's problem, but they say they can't\n(won't?) correct the problem...I'm still working on them. ;-}", "the \n\nNot Quite the point to be considdered here!\nFact: If/When Apple release system 7 (or what ever is current at the time \nof release) then you will see shortly afterwards Apple no longer producing \nHardware...Look at Next with their NextStep486 to see what happens.\nWho is going to pay Apples Prices when they can get the same thing cheaper \nelse where! (Heck we can get a Sun Workstation cheaper than a Quadra, and \ninfact we have a number of times!!!, it ALL comes down to $$$$)\n\nthem,\nIt\n\n\nNo the continued develeopment is because there is becomming less and less \nprofit in Hardware, So the Next Step (no pun intended...well sort of), is \nto make the money in software (look at Microsoft if you think it can't \nhappen!), after all you can sell multiple pieces of software to ONE \nhardware platform.\n\nAs you also said Windows is a nightmare for programmers, so will the \ntemptation to sell system 7 to a couple of MILLION dos users be too much \nfor Apple! (50 million copies @ $100 is SERIOUS money!).\n\n--\n", "Dear Reader,\n\n\nI'am searching for an implementation of a polygon reduction algorithm\nfor marching cubes surfaces. I think the best one is the reduction algorithm\nfrom Schroeder et al., SIGGRAPH '92. So, is there any implementation of this \nalgorithm, it would be very nice if you could leave it to me.\n\nAlso I'am looking for a fast !!! connectivity\ntest for marching cubes surfaces.\n\nAny help or hints will be very useful.\nThanks a lot\n", "\n\n\nHow much is the BJ going for? I got mine for $300 which was in the\nend the deciding factor for me.\n\n--Cindy\n--\nCindy Tittle Moore", "\nI have to beg to differ on this point, as the batch file I use\nto launch cview cd's to the dir where cview resides and then\ninvokes it. every time I crash cview, the 0-byte temp file\nis found in the root dir of the drive cview is on.\n\njust my $0.13,\ncb", "\nIt also runs OS/2 character based apps and POSIX apps. The DOS, 16bit\nand 32 bit windows apps run in a windows 32 bit subsystem.\n\nIf you consider the fact that NT has:\n the Lanman redirectors,\n built in support for TCP/IP\n built in support for NETBEUI\n comes with TCP utils like ping and an ftp client, etc\n applications like schedule+ and a 32 bit version of msmail\n\nthe storage argument isnt an issue.\n\n\nI ran it on a 486 with 8MRAM and it did a ton of disk swapping, with a 19M\nvirtual memory paging file. It functioned but it crawled. (this was the OCT\nbuild)\n\nI upgraded the machine to 16M and the performance is good,\nAt that point I installed the March Build. Consider they\nare probably still working on the feature set, and havent done a lot of fine\ntuning to the code yet.\n\n\nI have little info on Chicago so I cant make a comparison. Is it in Beta? Is\nthere anyone out there who has tested both and cares to make a comparison?\nJust my $0.02 ", "A friend of mine managed to get a copy of a computerised Greek and Hebrew \nLexicon called \"The Word Perfect\" (That is not the word processing \npackage WordPerfect). However, some one wiped out the EXE file, and she \nhas not been able to restore it. There are no distributors of the package in \nSouth Africa. I would appreciate it, if some one could email me the file, or \nat least tell me where I could get it from. \n\nMy email address is\n\tfortmann@superbowl.und.ac.za or\n\tfortmann@shrike.und.ac.za\n \nMany thanks.", "Hello,\n\n\tI have the following list of books about ISA/EISA buses:\n\n1. ISA System Architecture\n by Tom Shanley/Don Anderson\n MindShare Press, 1993 $34.95\n\n2. EISA System Architecture\n by Tom Shanley/Don Anderson\n MindShare Press, 1993 $24.95\n\n3. ISA, EISA: PC,XT,AT,E-ISA,ISA, and EISA I/O timing and specs.\n by Edward Solari, Copyright 1992\n ISBN: 0-929392-15-9\n\n4. AT Bus Design\n by Edward Solari, Copyright 1990\n ISBN: 0-929392-08-6\n\n5. Interfacing to the IBM PC/XT\n by Eggebrecht, Lewis C. Copyright 1990\n\n\tDo you have any comments on any of them?\n\n\tPlease reply by e-mail,", "Ok folks... \n\nI am in need for some money to purchase a Video Game Backup-Unit, so I\nhave decided to let go my SEGA CD unit... Heres the deal:\n\nSega Genesis CD/Rom Unit:\n------------------------\n o Playes Sega CD games\n o Playes Regular CD's\n o Playes CD-G's (Cd's w/graphics)\n o Comes w/ 5 Cd's (Pack-Ins)\n o Sega's Hot Hits (Regular CD w/ music)\n o Rock Paintings (CD-G - music w/Graphics Karoki like)\n o Sol-Feace (Shooter)\n o Sherlock Holmes (Mystery) - Clue Book, No Docs.\n o Sega Classics (Streets of Rage, Revenge of Shinobi, Columns,\n & Golden Axe) - No Docs.\n o Box and Documents (CD Unit) Included. All games comes w/Jewels and \n documentation unless otherwise specified.\n\n\nOther Games:\n-----------\n o Cobra Command (Docs have water dammage)\n o Road Avenger *2 Weeks old!!\n o Night Trap (No Docs.)\n o All games come w/Jewels and documentation unless otherwise specified.\n\n Im going to sell all of this to the HIGHEST bidder as of 4/30/93. I\nwould like to start all of the above at $250.00 or Trade for a Genesis/Snes\nVideo Backup-Unit. If you would like to bid or make an offer, just drop me\nsome mail... I will keep everone informed of what the current bids are..", "\nIs this not the same movie that sold at McDonald's for $7.99??\n (new)?\n", "This inelegant device started life as a 175 watt security lamp, until\ni smashed off the outer glass to liberate the nasty rays, It works a\ntreat, weighs a heap (due to the ballast) , and NO - i wont ship it !!\ncheers\nMike.\n", "Hi!\n\nI need a Windows 3.1 driver for the Matrox PG-1281 CV\nSVGA card. \nAt the moment Windows runs only in the 640x480 mode.\nIf you have a driver for this card, please send it \nwith the OEMSETUP.INF to \n\nbockamp@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE\n\nThanks!\n", "\n[STUFF DELETED]\n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nA friend who owns a company that builds clones shared with me the fact that\nthe PCI chipset is NOT expensive -- how about $12? Many money-hungry-clone\nmakers, no doubt, will attempt to price the boards high only because it's\nnew technology.\n\nLance Hartmann (lance%hartmann.austin.ibm.com@ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com)\n Yes, that IS a '%' (percent sign) in my network address.", "\nOnce in a while you have to put in a good word for something that works\nwell. I have had no problems with my Toshiba 3401. It works very well with\nDOS and OS/2. For OS/2, you don't need to load any special drivers. The\ninstallation will detect that it is a Toshiba drive and you are done.\n\nBTW, it's also very fast!", "es:\n\nA couple other problems with the 486DX/50:\n\n1.) System manufacturers had MAJOR problems solving the electromagnetic \ninterference problems with 486DX/50 systems. Getting an FCC-B (home use) \ncertification required additional shielding in the system.\n\n2.) HEAT...a lot of people seem to be installing heat sinks and/or cooling \nfans on their 486DX2/66 chips. I would guess that the 486DX/50 ran \ntemperatures inside the case even hotter. And heat is the enemy of system \nreliability.\n\nEd", "AY> In many recent advertisements I have seen both \"486DX-50\" and \"486DX\nAY>based systems. Does the first really exists and does it imply that all\nAY>circuitry on the motherboard with it works at that speed, as opposite \nAY>latter, where only the internals of the CPU are working at 50MHz?\nAY>\nAY> Many thanx in advance!\nAY>\nAY>Andrew.\n\nAndrew, yes there is a DX and DX2 version of the 50MHz 486. If you are \nconsidering buying one or the other, definitely go for the DX with a nice \nsize external cache! The performance is far greater.\n\nThe DX2 only has the internal 8k cache to work with at 50MHz, while the DX \nhas a potentially much larger cache to work at 50MHz with. Neither \nsystems could actually run a program out of main memory, since DRAM is \nstill too slow for that high of bus speed ( 60ns = 16.66MHz < 50MHz ).\n\n-rdd\n\n---\n . WinQwk 2.0b#0 . Unregistered Evaluation Copy\n * KMail 2.95d W-NET HQ, hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us, +1 313 663 4173 or 3959\n ", "\n\tI assume you're using the driver available from cica (hp4-v108.zip).\nBring up the setup screen of the printer through control panel. Click on the\n\"Options\" button brings up another screen of choices. Change the \"Graphics\nMode\" from \"HP-GL/2\" to \"Raster\" and check the box \"Print Truetype as graphics\n(this is only available when you choose \"Raster\"). Now you should be able to\nprint all your truetype fonts correctly. Good luck.\n", "I just won an IBM Wheelwriter 6 typewriter in a raffle here on campus. \nSince I have a nice computer, and really need the cash, I'm putting it up\nfor sale. I have an offer from a local reseller for $250. Best offer\nabove that plus shipping.\n\n...brian", "Does anyone know if the fabled /new/ version of PBM+ will be out soon. As\nfar as I know the /current/ version is 10dec91.\nJeff P. are you out there ? ?? ?", "\nWhen I first setup windows using the self load mode It grabbed about\n20 megs of swap file space, my 120 meg HD was nearly empty at that time.\nI deleted windows for a time and recently reloaded, now my HD is nearly full\nand windows just took 4 megs.\nI have read somewhere that the best rule of thumb is have your\npermanent swap file the same size as your regular RAM size. I have 4 megs\nof RAM and windows took 4 meg perm swap file. Works very well.\nIn fact with my available HD space, about 20 megs it won't let me make\nthe swap file any bigger.\nYou should change your virtual mem swap file to 8 megs I think\nthat is what you said your RAM was.\n\nC-ya..... /\\/\\artin", "#\n#I have a question regarding the processing of program arguments\n#such as the -geometry option. Since this is a standard X option, \n#I'm wondering wether I have to parse it manually or whether there\n#is some predefined function that will do this for me?\n#\n\nIf you are using the Intrinsics, it is parsed for you. If you are working\nat the Xlib level, you can parse it yourself or you can use the following\nbit of code.\n\nstatic XrmOptionDescRec options[] = {\n\t{\"-geometry\",\t\".geometry\",\tXrmoptionSepArg, (XPointer)NULL}\n};\n\n#define Number(x)\t(sizeof(x)/sizeof(x[0]))\nXrmParseCommand(db, options, Number(options), \"MyApplication\", &argc, argv);\n\nThen use XrmGetResource() to retrieve the value and parse it using\nXParseGeometry().\n\nIt is probably quicker to parse it yourself from argv, however, I much prefer\nusing the X resource management routines to do this.\n\nPatrick L. Mahan\n\n--- TGV Window Washer ------------------------------- Mahan@TGV.COM ---------", "Hello,\na friend a mine has a commodore 386sx and we've put in that machine\na second harddisk, he now has 100+200 MB. But the problem is that\nthe 200MB harddisk isn't supported in the bios. Alas there's no user type\n47 in the setup. At the moment we use it as a 193MB type but there are\ngetting bad blocks on the harddisk :-<. Question: who knows a solution to this?\nI've seen a small program for this once in the BYTE, but I haven't been able\nto find this. Would speedstor or diskmanager work for this, I used these\nprograms quite a lot in the XT-days, but I don't have these anymore, Seagate\nused to ship diskmanager with each drive they sold.\n \nHelp will be greatly appreciated.", "} \n} \n} |\"> It is interesting to look at the change(s) of mind that John has had.\n} |\"\n} |\"Very interested indeed! This is against this kind of \"changes\" that the GNU\n} |\"COPYLEFT is protecting us.\n} |\"\n} |\"Anyway, at SIMULOG, we will abandon xv. We were using it mostly for slide-\n} |\"shows because of its \"-loop\" feature that display does not have (display\n} |\"from the *wonderful* ImageMagick package! :-D), but I think I will implement\n} |\"it myself (even a shell-script should do the job) and forget xv.\n\nWe too will have to stop using it. Shame really - it was rather nice.\nStill, I have no objection to the owner claiming money for legit. \nwork he's put in. We'll just go back to the older versions of Xv.", "Archive-name: graphics/resources-list/part3\nLast-modified: 1993/04/27\n\n\nComputer Graphics Resource Listing : WEEKLY POSTING [ PART 3/3 ]\n===================================================\nLast Change : 27 April 1993\n\n\n11. Scene generators/geographical data/Maps/Data files\n======================================================\n\nDEMs (Digital Elevation Models)\n-------------------------------\n DEMs (Digital Elevation Models) as well as other cartographic data\n [huge] is available from spectrum.xerox.com [192.70.225.78], /pub/map.\n\n Contact:\n Lee Moore -- Webster Research Center, Xerox Corp. --\n Voice: +1 (716) 422 2496\n Arpa, Internet: Moore.Wbst128@Xerox.Com\n[ Check also on ncgia.ucsb.edu (128.111.254.105), /pub/dems -- nfotis ]\n\n Many of these files are also available on CD-ROM selled by USGS:\n \"1:2,000,000 scale Digital Line Graph (DLG) Data\". Contains datas\n for all 50 states. Price is about $28, call to or visit in offices\n in Menlo Park, in Reston, Virginia (800-USA-MAPS).\n\n The Data User Services Division of the Bureau of the Census also has\n data on CD-ROM (TSO standard format) that is derived from USGS\n 1:100,000 map data. Call (301) 763-4100 for more info or they have\n a BBS at (301) 763-1568.\n\n[ From Dr.Dobbs #198 March 1993: ]\n\n \"The U.S. Defense Mapping Agency, in cooperation with their counterpart\nagencies in CANADA, the U.K., and Australia, have released the Digital Chart\nof the World (DCW). This chart consists of over 1.5 gigabytes of reasonable\nquality vector data distributed on four CD-ROMS. .... includes coastlines,\nrivers, roads, railrays, airports,cities, towns, spot elevations, and depths,\nand over 100,000 place names.\"\n\nIt is ISO9660 compatible and only $200.00 available from:\n\nU.S. Geological Survey\nP.O. Box 25286\nDenver Federal Center\nDenver, CO 80225\n\nDigital Distribution Services\nEnergy, Mines, and Resources Canada\n615 Booth Street\nOttawa, ON\nK1A 0E9 Canada\n\nDirector General of Military Survey\n(Survey 3)\nElmwood Avenue\nFeltham, Middlesex\nTW13 7AH United Kingdom\n\nDirector of Survey, Australian Army\nDepartment of Defense\nCampbell Park Offices (CP2-4-24)\nCampbell ACT 2601 Australia\n\n\nFractal Landscape Generators\n----------------------------\n\nPublic Domain:\n\n Many people have written fractal landscape generators. for example\n for the Mac some of these generators were written by\n pdbourke@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Paul D. Bourke).\n Many of the programs are available from the FTP sites and mail\n archive servers. Check with Archie.\n\nCommercial:\n\n Vista Pro 3.0 for the Amiga from Virtual Reality Labs -- list price\n is about $100. Their address is:\n\tVRL\n\t2341 Ganador court\n\tSan Luis Obispo,\n\tCA 93401\n\tTelephone or FAX (805) 545-8515\n\n Scenery Animator (also for the Amiga) is of the same caliber with Vista Pro 2.\n Check with:\n\tNatural Graphics\n\tP.O. Box 1963\n\tRaklin, CA 95677\n\tPhone (916) 624-1436\n\n Don't forget to ask about companion programs and data disks/tapes.\n\n Vista Pro 3 has been ported to the PCs.\n\n\nCIA World Map II\n----------------\n[ NOTE: this database is quite out of date, and not topologically structured.\n If you need a standard for world cartographic data, wait for the\n Digital Chart of the World. This 1:1M database has been produced from\n the Defense Mapping Agency's ONCs and will be available, together with\n searching and viewing software, on a number of CD-ROMs later this summer. ]\n\n Check into HANAUMA.STANFORD.EDU and UCSD.EDU (see ftp list above)\n The CIA database consists of coastlines, rivers and political boundaries\n in the form of line strokes. Also on hanauma.stanford.edu is a 720x360\n array of elevation data, containing one ieee floating point number for\n every half degree longitude and latitude.\n \n A program for decoding the database, mfil, can be found on the machine\n pi1.arc.umn.edu (137.66.130.11).\n There's another program, which reads a compressed CIA Data Bank file and\n builds a PHIGS hierachical structure. It uses a PHIGS extension known as\n polyline sets for performance, but you can use regular polylines. Ask\n Joe Stewart .\n The raw data at Stanford require the vplot package to be able to view it.\n (was posted in comp.sources.unix). To be more exact, you'll have to\n compile just the libvplot routines, not the whole package.\n\nNCAR data\n---------\n NCAR (National Center for Atmospheric Research) has many types of\n terrain data, ranging from elevation datasets at\n various resolutions, to information about soil types, vegetation, etc.\n This data is not free -- they charge from $40 to $90 or more, depending\n on the data volume and media (exabyte tape, 3480 cartridge, 9-track tape,\n IBM PC floppy, and FTP transfer are all available). Their data archive\n is mostly research oriented, not hobbyist oriented. For more information,\n email to ilana@ncar.ucar.edu.\n\nUNC data tapes with voxel data\n--------------\n There are 2 \"public domain\" tapes with data for the comparison and\n testing of various volume rendering algorithms (mainly MRI and CT\n scans). These tapes are distributed by the SoftLab of UNC @ Chapel Hill.\n (softlab@cs.unc.edu)\n\n The data sets (volume I and II) are also available via anonymous FTP from\n omicron.cs.unc.edu [128.109.136.159] in pub/softlab/CHVRTD\n\nNASA\n----\n Many US agencies such as NASA publish CD-ROMs with many altimetry data\n from various space missions, eg. Viking for Mars, Magellan for Venus,\n etc. Especially for NASA, I would suggest to call the following\n address for more info:\n\n National Space Science Date Center\n Goddard Space Flight Center\n Greenbelt, Maryland 20771\n Telephone: (301) 286-6695\n Email address: request@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov\n\n The data catalog (*not* the data itself) is available online.\n Internet users can telnet to nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov (128.183.10.4) and log\n in as 'NODIS' (no password).\n\n You can also dial in at (301)-286-9000 (300, 1200, or 2400 baud, 8 bits,\n no parity, one stop). At the \"Enter Number:\" prompt, enter MD and\n carriage return. When the system responds \"Call Complete,\" enter a few\n more carriage returns to get the \"Username:\" and log in as 'NODIS' (no\n password).\n\n NSSDCA is also an anonymous FTP site, but no comprehensive list of\n what's there is available at present.\n\nEarth Sciences Data\n-------------------\n\n There's a listing of anonymous FTP sites for earth science data, including\n imagery. This listing is called \"Earth Sciences Resources on Internet\",\n and you can get it via anonymous FTP from csn.org [128.138.213.21]\n in the directory COGS under the name \"internet.resources.earth.sci\"\n\n Some sites include:\n aurelie.soest.hawaii.edu [128.171.151.121]: pub/avhrr/images - AVHRR images\n ames.arc.nasa.gov [128.102.18.3]: pub/SPACE/CDROM - images from\n Magellan and Viking missions etc.\n pub/SPACE/Index contains a listing of files available in the whole\n archive (the index is about 200K by itself). There's also an\n e-mail server for the people without Internet access: send a letter\n to archive-server@ames.arc.nasa.gov (or ames!archive-server). In the\n subject of your letter (or in the body), use commands like:\n\n send SPACE Index\n send SPACE SHUTTLE/ss01.23.91\n\n (Capitalization is important! Only text files are handled by the\n email server at present)\n\n vab02.larc.nasa.gov [128.155.23.47]: pub/gifs/misc/landsat -\n\tLandsat photos in GIF and JPEG format\n[ It was shut down - nfotis; anyone has a copy of this archive?? ]\n\nOthers\n------\n Daily values of river discharge, streamflow, and daily weather data is\n available from EarthInfo, 5541 Central Ave., Boulder CO 80301. These\n disks are expensive, around $500, but there are quantity discounts.\n (303) 938-1788.\n\n Check vmd.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.98], the wx directory carries\n data regarding surface analysis, weather radar, and sat view pics in\n GIF format (updated hourly)\n\n pioneer.unm.edu [129.24.9.217] is the Space and Planetary Image Facility\n (located on the University of New Mexico campus) FTP server. It provides\n Anonymous FTP access to >150 CD-ROMS with data/images.\n\n A disk with earthquake data, topography, gravity, geopolitical info\n is available from NGDC (National Geophysical Data Center), 325 Broadway,\n Boulder, CO 80303. (303) 497-6958.\n\n EOSAT (at least in the US) now sells Landsat MSS data older than two years\n old for $200 per scene, and they have been talking about a similar deal\n for Landsat TM data. The MSS data are 4 bands, 80 meter resolution.\n\n Check out anonymous FTP to ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu in\n UNIX/PolyView/alpha-shape for a tool that creates convex hulls\n alpha-shapes (a generalization of the convex hull) from 3D point sets.\n\n The GRIPS II (Gov. Raster Image Processing Software) CD-ROM\n is available from CD-ROM Inc. at 1-800-821-5245 for $49.\n Code for viewing ADRG (Arc Digitised Raster Graphics) files is\n available on the GRIPS II CD-ROM. The U.S. Army Engineer \n Topographic Labs (Juan Perez) code is also available via FTP\n ( adrg.zip archive in spectrum.xerox.com )\n\nNRCC range data\n---------------\n Rioux M., Cournoyer L. \"The NRCC Three-Dimensional Image Data Files\",\n Tech. Report, CNRC 29077, National Research Council Canada,\n Ottawa, Canada, 1988\n [ From what I understand, these data are from a laser range finder,\n and you can a copy for research purposes ]\n\n==========================================================================\n\n12. 3D scanners - Digitized 3D Data\n===================================\n\na. Cyberware Labs, Monterey, CA, manufactures a 3D color laser digitizer\n which can be used to model parts of, or a complete, human body.\n They run a service bureau also, so they can digitize models for you.\n\n Address:\n Cyberware Labs, Inc\n 8 Harris Ct, Suite 3D\n Monterey, CA 93940\n Phone: (408)373-1441, Fax: (408)373-3582\n\nb. Polhemus makes a 6D input device (actually a couple of models)\n that senses position (3D) and *orientation* (+3D) based on electromagnetic\n field interference. This equipment is also incorporated in the\n VPL Dataglove.\n This hardware is also called ISOTRACK, from Keiser Aerospace.\n\nAscension Technology makes a similar 3D input device.\nThere is a company, Applied Sciences(?), that makes a 3D input\ndevice (position only) based on speed of sound triangulation.\n\nc. A company that specializes in digitizing is Viewpoint. You can ask\n for Viewpoint's _free_ 100 page catalog full of ready to \n ship datasets from categories such as cars, anatomy, aircraft,sports,\n boats, trains, animals and others. Though these objects are\n quite expensive, the cataloge is nevertheless of interest for it\n has pictures of all the available objects in wireframe , polygon mesh.\n\n Contact:\n\n Viewpoint,\n 870 West Center,\n Orem, Utah 84057\n ph# 801-224-2222\n fax# 801-224-2272\n 1-800-DATASET\n\n------\n\n Some addresses for companies that make digitizers:\n\n Ascension Technology\n Bird, Flock of Birds, Big Bird: 6d trackers\n P.O. Box 527,\n Burlington, VT 05402\n Phone: (802) 655-7879, Fax: (802) 655-5904\n\n Polhemus Incorporated\n Digitizer: 6d trackers\n P.O. Box 560, Hercules Dr.\n Colchester, Vt. 05446\n Tel: (802) 655-3159\n\n Logitech Inc.\n Red Baron, ultrasonic 6D mouse\n 6506 Kaiser Dr.\n Freemont, CA 94555\n Tel: (415) 795-8500w\n\n Shooting Star Technology\n Mechanical Headtracker\n 1921 Holdom Ave.\n Burnaby, B.C. Canada V5B 3W4\n Tel: (604) 298-8574\n Fax: (604) 298-8580\n\n Spaceball Technologies, Inc.\n Spaceball: 6d stationary input device\n 600 Suffolk Street\n Lowell, MA, 01854\n Tel: (508) 970-0330 \n Fax: (508) 970-0199\n Tel in Mountain View: (415) 966-8123 \n\n Transfinite Systems \n Gold Brick: PowerGlove for Macintosh\n P.O. Box N\n MIT Branch Post Office\n Cambridge, MA 02139-0903\n Tel: (617) 969-9570\n email: D2002@AppleLink.Apple.com\n\n VPL Research, Inc.\n EyePhone: head-mounted display\n DataGlove: glove/hand input device\n VPL Research Inc.\n 950 Tower Lane\n 14th Floor\n Foster City, CA 94404\n Tel: (415) 312-0200\n Fax: (415) 312-9356\n\n SimGraphics Engineering\n Flying Mouse: 6d input device\n 1137 Huntington Rd. Suite A-1\n South Pasadena, CA 91030-4563\n (213) 255-0900\n\n========================================================================\n\n13. Background imagery/textures/datafiles\n=========================================\n\n First, check in the FTP places that are mentioned in the FAQ or in the FTP\nlist above.\n\n24-bit scanning:\n----------------\n Get a good 24-bit scanner, like Epson's. Suggested is an SCSI port for\n speed. Eric Haines had a suggestion in RT News, Volume 4, #3 :\n scan textures for wallpapers and floor coverings, etc. from doll\n house supplies.\n So you have a rather cheap way to scan patterns that don't have\n scaling troubles associated with real materials and scanning area.\n\nBooks with textures:\n--------------------\n Find some houses/books/magazines that carry photographic material.\n Educorp, 1-619-536-9999, sells CD-ROMS with various imagery - also\n a wide variety of stock art is available.\n Stock art from big-name stock art houses, such as Comstock,\n UNIPHOTO, and Metro Image Base, is available.\n\n In Italy, there's a company called Belvedere that makes such books\n for the purpose of clipping their pages for inclusion in your\n graphics work. Their address is:\n\tEdition Belvedere Co. Ltd.,\n\t00196 Rome Italy,\n\tPiazzale Flaminio, 19\n\tTel. (06) 360-44-88, Fax (06) 360-29-60\n\nTexture Libraries:\n------------------\na. Mannikin Sceptre Graphics announced TexTiles, a set of 256x256 24-bit\n textures. Initial shipments in 24-bit IFF (for Amigas), soon in 24-bit\n TIFF format. Algorithmically built for tiled surfaces. SRP is $40 / volume\n (each volume = 40 images @ 10 disks). Demo disks for $5 are available.\n\n Contact:\n Mannikin Sceptre Graphics\n 1600 Indiana Ave.\n Winter Park, FL 32789\n Phone: (407) 384-9484\n FAX: (407) 647-7242\n\nb. ESSENCE is a library of 65 (sixty-five) new algoritmic textures for Imagine\n by Impulse, Inc. These textures are FULLY compatible with the floating point\n versions of Imagine 2.0, Imagine 1.1, and even Turbo Silver.\n Written by Steve Worley.\n\n For more info contact:\n Essence Info\n Apex Software Publishing\n 405 El Camino Real Suite 121\n Menlo Park CA 94025 USA\n\n[ What about Texture City ?? ]\n\n==========================================================================\n\n14. Introduction to rendering algorithms\n========================================\n\na. Ray-Tracing:\n---------------\n\n I assume you have a general understanding of Computer Graphics. No? Then read\n some of the books that the FAQ contains. For Ray-Tracing, I would\n suggest:\n An Introduction to Ray Tracing, Andrew Glassner (ed.), Academic Press\n 1989, ISBN 0-12-286160-4\n Note that I have not read the book, but I feel that you can't be wrong\n using his book. An errata list was posted in comp.graphics by Eric Haines\n (erich@eye.com)\n\nThere's a more concise reference also:\n\n Roman Kuchkuda , UNC @ Chapel Hill: \"An Introduction to Ray Tracing\", in\n \"Theoretical Foundations for Computer Graphics and CAD\", ed. R.A.E.Earnshaw,\n NATO AS, Vol. F-40., pp. 1039-1060. Printed by Springer-Verlag, 1988.\n\nIt contains code for a small, but fundamentally complete ray-tracer.\n\nb. Z-buffer (depth-buffer)\n--------------------------\n\nA good reference is:\n\n _Procedural Elements for Computer Graphics_, David F. Rogers,\n McGraw-Hill, New York, 1985, pages 265-272 and 280-284.\n\nc. Others:\n----------\n???\n[ More info is needed -- nfotis ]\n\n========================================================================\n\n15. Where can I find the geometric data for the:\n================================================\n\na. Teapot ?\n-----------\n\n\"Displays on Display\" column of IEEE CG&A Jan '87 has the whole\nstory about origin of the Martin Newell's teapot. The article also has\nthe bezier patch model and a Pascal program to display the wireframe\nmodel of the teapot.\n\nIEEE CG&A Sep '87 in Jim Blinn's column \"Jim Blinn's Corner\" describes\nan another way to model the teapot; Bezier curves with rotations for\nexample are used.\n\nThe OFF and SPD packages have these objects, so you're advised to get\nthem to avoid typing the data yourself. The OFF data is triangles at\na specific resolution (around 8x8[x4 triangles] meshing per patch).\nThe SPD package provides the spline patch descriptions and performs a\ntessellation at any specified resolution.\n\nb. Space Shuttle ?\n------------------\n\nTolis Lerios has built a list of Space Shuttle\ndatafiles. Here's a summary (From his sci.space list):\n\nmodel1:\nA modified version of the newsgroup model (model2)\n\n406 vertices (296 useful, i.e. referred to in the polygon descriptions.)\n389 polygons (233 3-vertex, 146 4-vertex, 7 5-vertex, 3 6-vertex).\nPayload doors non-existent.\nUnits: unknown.\n\nSimon Marshall (S.Marshall@sequent.cc.hull.ac.uk) has a copy. He\nsaid there is no proprietary information associated with it.\n\nmodel2:\nThe newsgroup model, in OFF format. You can find it in\n\ngondwana.ecr.mu.oz.au , file pub/off/objects/shuttle.geo\nhanauma.stanford.edu , /pub/graphics/Comp.graphics/objects/shuttle.data\n\nmodel3:\nThe triangles' model.\n\nThis model is stored in several files, each defining portions of the model.\n\nGreg Henderson (henders@infonode.ingr.com) has a copy. He did\nnot mention any restriction on the model's distribution.\n\nmodel4:\nThe NASA model.\n\nThe file starts off with a header line containing three real numbers,\ndefining the offsets used by Lockheed in their simulations:\n\n \n\nFrom then on, the file consists of a sequence of polygon descriptions\n\n3473 vertices.\n2748 polygons (407 3-vertex, 2268 4-vertex, 33 5-vertex, 14 6-vertex,\n 10 7-vertex, 8 8-vertex, 8 12-vertex, 2 13-vertex, 2 15-vertex,\n 17 16-vertex, 2 17-vertex, 2 18-vertex, 3 19-vertex, 8 24-vertex).\nPayload doors closed.\nUnits: inches.\n\nJon Berndt (jon@l14h11.jsc.nasa.gov) seems to be responsible for the model\nProprietary info: unknown\n\nmodel5:\nThe old shuttle model.\n\nThe file consists of a sequence of polygon descriptions.\n\n104 vertices.\n452 polygons (11 3-vertex, 41 4-vertex).\nPayload doors open.\nUnits: meters.\n\nWe have been using this model at STAR Labs, Stanford University, for\nsome years now. Contact me (tolis@nova.stanford.edu) or my supervisor\nScott Williams (scott@star5.stanford.edu) if you want a copy.\n\n========================================================================\n\n16. Image annotation software\n=============================\n\na. Touchup runs in Sunview and is pretty good. It reads in\n rasterfiles, but even if your image isn't normally stored\n in rasterfile format you could use screendump to make it a\n rasterfile.\n\nb. Idraw (part of Stanford's InterViews distribution) can handle some\n image formats in addition to being a MacDraw like tool. I'm not\n sure exactly what they are.\n You can ftp the idraw's binary from interviews.stanford.edu.\n\nc. Tgif is another MacDraw like tool that can handle X11 bitmap (xbm)\n and X11 pixmap (xpm) formats. If the image you have is in formats\n other than xbm or xpm, you can get the pbmplus toolkit to convert\n things like gif or even some Macintosh formats to xpm.\n Tgif's sources are available in the pub directory on cs.ucla.edu\n (Version 2.12 of tgif at patchlevel 7 plus patch8 and patch9)\n\nd. Use the editimage facility of KHOROS (see below).\n This is just one utility in the overall system- you can essentially do all\n your image processing and macdraw-type graphics using this package.\n\ne. You might be able to get by with PBMPlus. pbmtext gives you text output\n bitmaps which can be overlaid on top of your image.\n\nf. 'ice' requires Sun hardware running OpenWindows 3.It's a PostScript-based\n graphical editor,and it's available for anonymous ftp from Internet host\n eo.soest.hawaii.edu (128.171.151.12). Requires Sun C++ 2.0 and\n two other locally developed packages, the LXT library (an Xlib-based\n toolkit) and a small C++ class library. All files (pub/ice.tar.Z,\n pub/lxt.tar.Z and pub/ldgoc++.tar.Z) are available in compressed\n tar format. pub/ice.tar.Z contains a README that gives installation\n instructions, as well as an extensive man page (ice.1).\n A statically-linked compressed executable pub/ice-sun4.Z for\n SPARC systems is also available for ftp.\n\n All software is the property of Columbia University and may not\n be redistributed without permission.\n\n ice means Image Composition Environment and it's an imaging tool that\n allows raster images to be combined with a wide variety of\n PostScript annotations in WYSIWYG fashion via X11 imaging\n routines and NeWS PostScript rasterizing.\n\ng. Use ImageMagick to annotate an image from your X server. Pick the \n position of your text with the cursor and choose your font and pen \n color from a pull-down menu. ImageMagick can read and write many\n of the more popular image formats. ImageMagick is available as\n export.lcs.mit.edu: contrib/ImageMagick.tar.Z or at your nearest\n X11 archive.\n\n========================================================================\n\n17. Scientific visualization stuff\n==================================\n\nX Data Slice (xds)\n-------------------\n Bundled with the X11 distribution from MIT,\n in the contrib directory. Available at ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.20.50]\n (either as a source or binaries for various platforms).\n\nNational Center for Supercomputing Applications (NCSA) Tool Suite\n-----------------------------------------------------------------\n\nPlatforms: Unix Workstations (DEC, IBM, SGI, Sun)\n Apple MacIntosh\n Cray supercomputers\n\nAvailability: Now available. Source code in the public domain.\n FTP from ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu.\n\nContact: National Center for Supercomputing Applications\n Computing Applications Building\n 605 E. Springfield Ave.\n Champaign, IL 61820\n\nCost: Free (zero dollars).\n\nThe suite includes tools for 2D image and 3D scene analysis and visualization.\nThe code is actively maintained and updated.\n\nSpyglass\n--------\n They sell commercial versions of the NCSA tools. Examples are:\n\n\tSpyglass Dicer (3D volumetric data analysis package)\n\t\tPlatform: Mac\n\n\tSpyglass Transform (2D data analysis package)\n\t\tPlatforms: Mac, SGI, Sun, DEC, HP, IBM\n\n Contact:\n Spyglass, Inc.\n P.O. Box 6388\n Champaign, IL 61826\n (217) 355-6000\n\nKHOROS 1.0 Patch 5\n------------------\n Available via anonymous ftp at pprg.eece.unm.edu (129.24.24.10).\n cd to /pub/khoros to see what is available. It is HUGE (> 100 MB), but good.\n Needs Unix and X11R4. Freely copied (NOT PD), complete with sources\n and docs. Very extensive and at its heart is visual programming.\n Khoros components include a visual programming language, code\n generators for extending the visual language and adding new application\n packages to the system, an interactive user interface editor, an\n interactive image display package, an extensive library of image and\n signal processing routines, and 2D/3D plotting packages.\n\n See comp.soft-sys.khoros on Usenet and the relative FAQ for more info....\n\n Contact:\n\n The Khoros Group\n Room 110 EECE Dept.\n University of New Mexico\n Albuquerque, NM 87131\n\n Email: khoros-request@chama.eece.unm.edu\n\n\nMacPhase\n--------\n Analysis & Visualization Application for the Macintosh.\n Operates on 1D and 2D data arrays. Import/Export several different file\n formats. Several different plotting options such as gray scale,\n color raster, 3D Wire frame, 3D surface, contour, vector, line, and\n combinations. FFTs, filtering, and other math functions, color look up\n editor, array calculator, etc. Shareware, available via anonymous ftp from\n sumex-aim.stanford.edu in the info-mac/app directory.\n For other information contact Doug Norton (e-mail: 74017.461@@compuserve.com)\n\n\nIRIS Explorer\n-------------\n It's an application creation system developed by Silicon\n Graphics that provides visualisation and analysis functionality for\n computational scientists, engineers and other scientists. The Explorer\n GUI allows users to build custom applications without having to write\n any, or a minimal amount of, traditonal code. Also, existing code can\n be easily integrated into the Explorer environment. Explorer currently\n is available now on SGI and Cray machines, but will become available on\n other platforms in time. [ Bundled with every new SGI machine, as far as\n I know]\n\n See comp.graphics.explorer or comp.sys.sgi for discussion of the package.\n\n There are also two FTP servers for related stuff, modules etc.:\n\n ftp.epcc.ed.ac.uk [129.215.56.29]\n swedishchef.lerc.nasa.gov [139.88.54.33] - mirror of the UK site\n\napE\n---\n Back in the 'old good days', you could get apE for nearly free.\n Now has gone commercial and the following vendor supplies it:\n\n TaraVisual Corporation\n 929 Harrison Avenue\n Columbus, Ohio 43215\n Tel: 1-800-458-8731 and (614) 291-2912\n Fax: (614) 291-2867\n\n Cost:\n $895 (plus tax); runtime version with a site-license for a single user\n (at a time), no limit on the number of machines in a cluster.\n $895 includes support/maintenance and upgrades.\n Source code more. Additional user licenses $360.\n\n The name of the package has become apE III (TM).\n Khoros is very similar to apE on philosophy, as are AVS and Explorer.\n\nAVS\n---\nSee also:\n comp.graphics.avs\n\nPlatforms: CONVEX, CRAY, DEC, Evans & Sutherland, HP, IBM, Kubota,\nSet Technologies, SGI, Stardent, SUN, Wavetracer\nAvailability: AVS4 available on all the above:\n For all UNIX workstations.\n\nContact:\n Advanced Visual Systems Inc.\n 300 Fifth Ave.\n Waltham, MA 02154\n\n (617)-890-4300 Telephone\n (617)-890-8287 Fax\n avs@avs.com Email\n\n Advanced Visual Systems Inc. for: CRAY, HP, IBM, SGI, Stardent, SUN\n CONVEX for CONVEX\n Advanced Visual Systems Inc. or CRAY for CRAY\n DEC for DEC\n Evans & Sutherland for Evans & Sutherland\n Advanced Visual Systems Inc. or IBM for IBM\n Kubota Pacific Inc. for Kubota\n Set Technologies for Set Technologies\n Wavetracer for Wavetracer\n\n FTP Site: for modules, data sets, other info:\n\tavs.ncsc.org (128.109.178.23)\n\nWIT\n---\n In a nutshell it's a package of the same genre as AVS,Explorer,etc.\n It seems more a image processing system than a generic SciVi system (IMHO)\n Major elements are:\n\n - a visual programming language, which automatically exploits the inherent\n parallelism\n - a code generator which converts the graph to a standalone program\n\n Iconified libraries present a rich set of point, filter, io, transform,\n morphological, segmentation, and measurement operations.\n A flow library allows graphs to employ broadcast, merge,\n synchronization, conditional, and sequencing control strategies.\n\n WIT delivers an object-oriented, distributed, visual programming\n environment which allows users to rapidly design solutions to their\n imaging problems. Users can consolidate both software and hardware\n developments within a complete CAD-like workspace by adding their\n own operators (C functions), objects (data structures), and servers\n (specialized hardware). WIT runs on Sun, HP9000/7xx, SGI and supports\n Datacube MV-20/200 hardware allowing you to run your graphs in real-time.\n\n For a free WIT demo disk, call, FAX, or e-mail (poon@ee.ubc.ca)\n us stating your complete name, address, voice, FAX, e-mail info.\n and desired platform.\n\n Pricing: WIT for Sparc, one yr. free upgrades, 30 days\n technical support....................$5000 US\n\n Academic institutions: discounts available\n\n\n Contact:\n Logical Vision Ltd.\n Suite 108-3700 Gilmore Way\n Burnaby, B.C., CANADA\n V5G 4M1\n Tel: 604-435-2587\n Fax: 604-435-8840\n\n Terry Arden \n\nVIS-5D\n------\n A system for visually exploring the output of 5-D gridded data sets\n such as those made by weather models. Platforms:\n\n SGI IRIS with VGX, GTX, TG, or G graphics,\n SGI Crimson or Indigo (R4000, Elan graphics suggested), IRIX 4.0.x\n IBM RS/6000 with GL graphics, AIX version 3 or later;\n Stardent GS-1000 and GS-2000 (with TrueColor display)\n\n In any case, 32 (or more) MB of RAM are suggested.\n\n You can get it freely (thanks to NASA support) via anonymous ftp:\n\n ftp iris.ssec.wisc.edu (or ftp 144.92.108.63), then\n\n ftp> cd pub/vis5d\n ftp> ascii\n ftp> get README\n ftp> bye\n\n NOTE: You can find the package also on wuarchive.wustl.edu in the\n graphics/graphics/packages directory.\n\n Read section 2 of the README file for full instructions\n on how to get and install VIS-5D.\n\n Contact:\n Bill Hibbard (whibbard@vms.macc.wisc.edu)\n Brian Paul (bpaul@vms.macc.wisc.edu)\n\nDATAexplorer (IBM)\n------------------\n Platforms : IBM Risc System 6000, IBM POWER Visualization Server\n (SIMD mesh 32 i860s, 40 MHz)\n\n Working on (announced) : SGI, HP, Sun\n\n Contact:\n Your local IBM Rep. For a trial package ask your rep to contact :\n\n David Kilgore\n Data Explorer Product Marketing\n YKTVMH(KILCORE), (708) 981-4510\n\nWavefront\n---------\n Data Visualizer, Personal Visualizer, Advanced Visualizer.\n Platforms: SGI, SUN, IBM RS6000, HP, DEC\n\n Availability:\n Available on all the above platforms from Wavefront\n Technologies. Educational programs and site licenses are\n available.\n\n Contacts:\n Mike Wilson (mike@wti.com)\n\n Wavefront Technologies, Inc.\n 530 East Montecito Street\n Santa Barbara, CA 93103\n 805-962-8117\n FAX: 805-963-0410\n\n Wavefront Europe\n Guldenspoorstraat 21-23\n B-9000 Gent, Belgium\n 32-91-25-45-55\n FAX: 32-91-23-44-56\n\n Wavefront Technologies Japan\n 17F Shinjuku-sumitomo Bldg\n 2-6-1 Nishi-shinjuku, Shunjuku-Ku\n Tokyo 168 Japan\n 81-3-3342-7330\n FAX 81-3-3342-7353\n\n\nPLOT3D and FAST from NASA Ames\n------------------------------\n These packages are distributed from COSMIC at least\n (for FAST ask Pat Elson for\n distribution information). In general, these codes are for US\n citizens only :-(\n\nXGRAPH\n------\n On the contrib tape of X11R5. Its specialty is display of up\n to 64 data sets (2D).\n\nNCAR\n----\n National Center for Atmospheric Research. One of the original graphics\n packages. Runs on Sun, RS6000, SGI, VAX, Cray Y-MP, DecStations, and more.\n\n Contact:\n\tGraphics Information\n\tNCAR Scientific Computing Division\n\tP.O. Box 3000\n\tBoulder, CO 80307-3000\n\t(303)-497-1201\n\tscdinfo@ncar.ucar.edu\n\n Cost:\n\t.edu\n\t$750 Unlimited users\n\n\t.gov\n\t$750 1 user\n\t$1500 5 users\n\t$3000 25 users\n\n\t.com users multiply .gov * 2.0\n\nIDL\n---\n An environment for scientific computing and visualization.\n Based on an array oriented language, IDL includes 2D and 3D\n graphics, matrix manupulation, signal and image processing,\n basic statistics, gridding, mapping, and a widget based system\n for building GUI for IDL applications (Open Look, Motif, or\n MS-Windows).\n\n Environments: DEC (VMS and Ultrix), HP, IBM RS6000, SGI, Sun,\n Microsoft Windows. (Mac version in progress)\n Cost: $1500 to $3750, Educational and quantity discounts\n available.\n See also: comp.lang.idl-pvwave (the IDL-PVWAVE bundle)\n Contact: Research Systems Inc.\n 777 29th Street, Suite 302\n Boulder, CO 80303\n Phone: 303-786-9900\n FAX: 303-786-9909\n E-mail: info@rsinc.com\n Demo available via FTP. Call or E-mail for details.\n\nIDL/SIPS\n--------\n \"A lot of people are using IDL with a package called SIPS. This was\n developed at the University of Colorado (Boulder) by some people working\n for Alex Goetz. You might try contacting them if you already have IDL\n or would be willing to buy it. It's a few thousand dollars (American) I\n expect for IDL and the other should be free. Those are the general\n purpose packages I've heard of, besides what TerraMar has.\n SIPS _was_ written for AVIRIS imagery. I'm not sure how general purpose\n it is. You would have to contact Goetz or one of his people and ask. I\n have another piece of software (PCW) that does PC and Walsh\n transformations with pseudocoloring and clustering and limited image\n modification (you can compute an image using selected components). I've\n used it on 70 megabyte AVIRIS images without problems, but for the best\n speed you need an external DSP card. It will work without it, but large\n images take quite a while (50-70 times as long) to process. That's a\n freebie if you want it\"\n\n \"My favorite is IDL (Interactive Data Language) from Research Systems,\n Inc. IDL is in my opinion, much better and infinitely easier. Its\n programming language is very strong and easy -- very Pascal-like. It\n handles the number-crunching very well, also. Personally, I like doing\n the number-crunching with IDL on the VAX (or Mathematica, Igor, or even\n Excel on the Mac if it's not too hairy), then bringing it over to NIH\n Image for the imaging part. I have yet to encounter any situation which\n that combination couldn't handle, and the speed and ease of use\n (compared to IRAF) was incredible. By the way, it's mostly astronomical\n image processing which I've been doing. This means image enhancement,\n cleaning up bad lines/pixels, and some other traditional image\n processing routines. Then, for example, taking a graph of intensity\n versus position along a line I choose with the mouse, then doing a curve\n fit to that line (which I might do like in KaleidaGraph.) \"\n\n[ For IDL call Research Systems , for PV-WAVE call Precision Visuals and\n for SIPS call University of Colorado @ Boulder . From what I can\n understand, you can get packaged programs from Research Systems, though\n -- nfotis ]\n\nVisual3\n-------\n contact Robert Haimes, MIT\n\nFieldView\n---------\n An interactive program designed to assist an engineer in\n investigating fluid dynamics data sets. \n\n Platforms: SGI, IBM, HP, SUN, X-terminals\n\n Availability: Currently available on all of the above\n platforms. Educational programs and volume \n discounts are available.\n\n Contact:\n\n Intelligent Light \n P.O. Box 65\n Fair Lawn, NJ 07410\n (201)794-7550\n \n Steve Kramer (kramer@ilight.com)\n\n\nSciAn\n------\n SciAn is primarily intended to do 3-D visualizations of data in an \n interactive environment with the ability to generate animations using\n frame-accurate video recording devices. A user manual, on-line help, and\n technical notes will help you use the program.\n\n Cost : 0 (Free), source code provided via ftp.\n Platforms : SGI 4D machines and IBM RS/6000 with the GL card + Z-buffer\n\n Where to find it:\n ftp.scri.fsu.edu [144.174.128.34] : /pub/SciAn\n\tA mirror is monu1.cc.monash.edu.au [130.194.1.101] : /pub/SciAn\n\nSCRY\n----\n[ From the README : ]\n\n Scry is a distributed image handling system that pro-\n vides image transport and compression on local and wide area\n networks, image viewing on workstations, recording on video\n equipment, and storage on disk. The system can be distri-\n buted among workstations, between supercomputers and works-\n tations, and between supercomputers, workstations and video\n animation controllers. The system is most commonly used to\n produce video based movie displays of images resulting from\n visualization of time dependent data, complex 3D data sets,\n and image processing operations. Both the clients and\n servers run on a variety of systems that provide UNIX-like C\n run-time environments, and 4BSD sockets.\n \n The source is available for anonymous ftp:\n \n csam.lbl.gov [128.3.254.6] : pub/scry.tar.Z\n \n Contact:\n \n Bill Johnston, (wejohnston@lbl.gov, ...ucbvax!csam.lbl.gov!johnston)\n\n or\n\n David Robertson (dwrobertson@lbl.gov, ...ucbvax!csam.lbl.gov!davidr)\n \n Imaging Technologies Group\n MS 50B/2239\n Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory\n 1 Cyclotron Road\n Berkeley, CA 94720\n\n\nSVLIB / FVS\n-----------\n SVLIB is an X-Windows widget set based on the OSF (Open Software \n Foundation) Motif widget set. SVLIB widgets are macro-widgets \n comprising lower level Motif widgets such as buttons, scrollbars, \n menus, and drawing areas. It is designed to address the reusability \n of 2D visualization routines and each widget in the library is an \n encapsulation of a specific visualization technique such as colormap \n manipulation, image display, and contour plotting. It is targetted\n to run on UNIX workstations supporting OSF/Motif. Currently, only \n color monitors are supported. Since SVLIB is a collection of widgets \n developed in the same spirit as the OSF/Motif user interface widget \n set, it integrates seamlessly with the Motif widgets. Programmers \n using SVLIB widgets see the same interface and design as other \n Motif widgets.\n\n FVS is a visualization software for Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD) \n simulations. FVS is designed to accept data generated from these\n simulations and apply various visualization techniques to present these\n data graphically. \n FVS accepts three-dimensional multi-block data recorded in NCSA HDF format.\n\n iti.gov.sg [192.122.132.130] : /pub/svlib (Scientific Visualization)\n /pu/fvs; These directories contain demo binaries for Sun4/SGI\n\n Cost : US$200 for academic and US$300 for non-academic institutions.\n (For each of the above items). You're getting the source for the licence.\n\n Contact\n -------\n Miss Quek Lee Hian\n Member of Technical Staff\n Information Technology Institute\n National Computer Board\n NCB Building\n 71, Sicence Park Drive\n Singapore 0511\n Republic of Singapore\n Tel : (65)7720435\n Fax : (65)7795966\n Email : leehian@iti.gov.sg\n\n\n---------------------------------------------------------\nGVLware Distribution:\n Bob - An interactive volume renderer for the SGI\n Raz - A disk based movie player for the SGI\n Icol - Motif color editor\n---------------------------------------------------------\n\nThe Army High Performance Computing Research Center (AHPCRC) has been\ndeveloping a set of tools to work with large time dependent 2D and 3D\ndata sets. In the Graphics and Visualization Lab (GVL) we are using\nthese tools along side standard packages, such as SGI Explorer and the\nUtah Raster Toolkit, to render 3D volumes and create digital movies.\nA couple of the more general purpose programs have been bundled into a\npackage called \"GVLware\".\n\nGVLware, currently consisting of Bob, Raz and Icol, is now available\nvia ftp. The most interesting program is probably Bob, an interactive\nvolume renderer for the SGI. Raz streams raster images from disk to\nan SGI screen, enabling movies larger than memory to be played. Icol\nis a color map editor that works with Bob and Raz. Source and\npre-built binaries for IRIX 4.0.5 are included.\n\nTo acquire GVLware, anonymous ftp to:\n machine - ftp.arc.umn.edu\n file - /pub/gvl.tar.Z\n\nTo use GVLware:\n mkdir gvl ; cd gvl\n zcat gvl.tar.Z | tar xvf -\n more README\n\nSome Bob features:\n Motif interface, SGI GL rendering\n Renders 64 cubed data set in 0.1 to 1.0 seconds on a VGX\n Alpha Compositing and Maximum Value rendering, in perspective\n (only Maximum Value rendering on Personal Iris)\n Data must be a \"Brick of Bytes\", on a regularly spaced grid\n Animation, subvolumes, subsampling, stereo\n\nSome Raz features:\n Motif interface, SGI GL rendering\n Loads files to a raw disk partition, then streams to screen\n (requires an empty disk partition to be set aside)\n Script interface available for movie sequences\n Can stream from memory, like NCSA XImage\n \nSome Icol features:\n Motif interface\n Easy to create interpolated color maps between key points\n RGB, HSV and YUV color spaces, multiple file formats\n Communicates changes automatically to Bob and Raz\n Has been tested on SGI, Sun, DEC and Cray systems\n\nBTW: Bob == Brick of Bytes\n Icol == Interpolated Color\n Raz == ? (just a name)\n\nPlease send any comments to\n gvlware@ahpcrc.umn.edu\n\nThis software collection is supported by the Army Research Office\ncontract number DAALO3-89-C-0038 with the University of Minnesota Army\nHigh Performance Computing Research Center.\n\n\nIAP\n---\n Imaging Applications Platform is a commercial package for medical and\n scientific visualization. It does volume rendering, binary surface\n rendering, multiplanar reformating, image manipulation, cine sequencing,\n intermixes geometry and text with images and provides measurement and\n coordinate transform abilities.\n\n It can provide hardcopy on most medical film printers, image database\n functionality and interconnection to most medical (CT/MRI/etc) scanners.\n\n It is client/server based and provides an object oriented interface. It\n runs on most high performance workstations and takes full advantage of\n parallelism where it is available. It is robust, efficient and\n will be submitted for FDA approval for use in medical applications.\n\n Cost: $20K for OEM developer, $10K for educational developer\n and run times starting at $8900 and going down based on quantity.\n\n The developer packages include two days training for two people in Toronto.\n\n Available from:\n\n ISG Technologies\n 6509 Airport Road\n Mississauga, Ontario,\n Canada, L4V-1S7\n\n (416) 672-2100\n e-mail: Rod Gilchrist \n\n========================================================================\n\n18. Molecular visualization stuff\n=================================\n\n[ Based on a list from cristy@dupont.com < Cristy > , which asked for\n systems for displaying Molecular Dynamics, MD for short ]\n\nFlex\n----\n It is a public domain package written by Michael Pique, at The Scripps\n Research Institute, La Jolla, CA. Flex is stored as a compressed,\n tar'ed archive (about 3.4MB) at perutz.scripps.edu [137.131.152.27], in\n pub/flex. It displays molecular models and MD trajectories.\n\nMacMolecule\n-----------\n (for Macintosh). I searched with Archie, and the most\n promising place is sumex-aim.stanford.edu (info-mac/app, and\n info-mac/art/qt for a demo)\n\nMD-DISPLAY\n----------\n Runs on SGI machines. Call Terry Lybrand (lybrand@milton.u.washington.edu).\n\nXtalView\n--------\n It is a crystallography package that does visualize molecules and much more.\n It uses the XView toolkit.\n Call Duncan McRee \n\nlandman@hal.physics.wayne.edu:\n-----------------------------\n I am writing my own visualization code right now. I look at MD output\n (a specific format, easy to alter for the subroutine) on PC's. My\n program has hooks into GKS. If your friend has access to Phigs for X\n (PEX) and fortran bindings, I would be happy to share my evolving code\n (free of charge). Right now it can display supercells of up to 65\n atoms (easy to change), and up to 100 time steps, drawing nearest\n neighbor bonds between 2 defining nn radii. It works acceptably fast\n on a 10Mhz 286.\n\nicsg0001@caesar.cs.montana.edu:\n------------------------------\n I did a project on Molecular Visualization for my Master's Thesis, using\n UNIX/X11/Motif which generates a simple point and space-filling model.\n\nKGNGRAF\n-------\n\nKGNGRAF is part of MOTECC-91. Look on malena.crs4.it (156.148.7.12),\nin pub/motecc.\n\nmotecc.info.txt Information about MOTECC-91 in plain ascii format.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nmotecc.info.troff Information about MOTECC-91 in troff format.\nmotecc.form.troff MOTECC-91 order form in troff format.\nmotecc.license.troff MOTECC-91 license agreement in troff format.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nmotecc.info.ps Information about MOTECC-91 in PostScript format.\nmotecc.form.ps MOTECC-91 order form in PostScript format.\nmotecc.license.ps MOTECC-91 license agreement in PostScript format.\n\n\nditolla@itnsg1.cineca.it:\n------------------------\n I'm working on molecular dynamic too. A friend of mine and I have\n\n developed a program to display an MD run dynamically on Silicon\n Graphics. We are working to improve it, but it doesn't work under X,\n we are using the graphi. lib. of the Silicon Gr. because they are much\n faster then X. When we'll end it we'll post on the news info about\n where to get it with ftp. (Will be free software).\n\nXBall V2.0\n----------\n Written by David Nedde. Call daven@maxine.wpi.edu.\n\nXMol\n----\n An X Window System program that uses OSF/Motif for the\n display and analysis of molecular model data. Data from several\n common file formats can be read and written; current formats include:\n Alchemy, CHEMLAB-II, Gaussian, MOLSIM, MOPAC, PDB, and MSCI's XYZ\n format (which has been designed for simplicity in translating to\n and from other formats). XMol also allows for conversion between\n several of these formats.\n Xmol is available at ftp.msc.edu. Read pub/xmol/README for\n further details.\n\nINSIGHT II\n----------\n from BIOSYM Technologies Inc.\n\nSCARECROW\n---------\n The program has been published in J. Molecular Graphics 10\n (1992) 33. The program can analyze and display CHARMM, DISCOVER, YASP\n and MUMOD trajectories. The program package contains also software for\n the generation of probe surfaces, proton affinity\n surfaces and molecular orbitals from an extended Huckel program.\n It works on Silicon Graphics machines.\n Contact Leif Laaksonen \n\nMULTI\n-----\nns.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.8.8] : /pub - MULTI 3.0 (Multi-Process\n\t\tMolecular Modeling Suite)\n\nMindTool\n--------\n It runs under SunView, and requires a fortran compiler and Sun's CGI\n libraries. MindTool is a tool provided for the interactive graphic\n manipulation of molecules and atoms. Currently, up to 10,000\n atoms may be input.\n Available via anonymous FTP, at rani.chem.yale.edu, directory\n /pub/MindTool ( Check with Archie for other sites if that's too far )\n\n[ I would also suggest looking at least in SGI's Applications Directory.\n It contains many more packages - nfotis ]\n\n===========================================================================\n\n19. GIS (Geographical Information Systems software)\n===================================================\n\nGRASS\n-----\n (Geographic Resource Analysis Support System) of the US Army\n Construction Engineering Research Lab (CERL). It is a popular geographic and\n remote sensing image processing package. Many may think of GRASS as a\n Geographic Information System rather than an Image Processing package,\n although it is reported to have significant image processing\n capabilities.\n\n Feature Descriptions\n\n I use GRASS because it's public domain and can be obtained through the\n internet for free. GRASS runs in Unix and is written in C. The source\n code can be obtained through an anonymous ftp from the Office of Grass\n Integration. You then compile the source code for your machine, using\n scripts provided with GRASS. I would recommend GRASS for someone who\n already has a workstation and is on a limited budget. GRASS is not very\n user-friendly, compared to Macintosh software.\" A first review of\n overview documentation indicates that it looks useful and has some pixel\n resampling functions not in other packages plus good general purpose\n image enhancement routines (fft). Kelly Maurice at Vexcel Corp. in\n Boulder, CO is a primary user of GRASS . This gentleman has used the\n GRASS software and developed multi-spectral (238 bands ??) volumetric\n rendering, full color, on Suns and Stardents. It was a really effective\n interface. Vexcel Corp. currently has a contract to map part of Venus\n and convert the Magellan radar data into contour maps. You can call them\n at (303) 444-0094 or email care of greg@vexcel.com 192.92.90.68\n\n Host Configuration Requirements\n\n If you are willing to run A/UX you could install GRASS on a Macintosh\n which has significant image analysis and import capabilities for\n satellite data. GRASS is public-domain, and can run on a high-end PC\n under UNIX. It is raster-based, has some image-processing capability,\n and can display vector data (but analysis must be done in the raster\n environment). I have used GRASS V.3 on a SUN workstation and found it\n easy to use. It is best, of course, for data that are well represented\n in raster (grid-cell) form.\n\n Availability\n\n CERL's Office of Grass Integration (OGI) maintains an ftp server:\n moon.cecer.army.mil (129.229.20.254).\n\n Mail regarding this site should be addressed to\n grass-ftp-admin@moon.cecer.army.mil.\n\n This location will be the new \"canonical\" source for GRASS software, as\n well as bug fixes, contributed sources, documentation, and other files.\n This FTP server also supports dynamic compression and uncompression and\n \"tar\" archiving of files. A feature attraction of the server is John\n Parks' GRASS tutorial. Because the manual is still in beta-test stage,\n John requests that people only acquire it if they are willing to review\n it and mail him comments/corrections. The OGI is not currently\n maintaining this document, so all correspondence about it should be\n directed to grassx@tang.uark.edu\n\n Support\n\n Listserv mailing lists:\n\n grassu-list@amber.cecer.army.mil (for GRASS users; application-level\n questions, support concerns, miscellaneous questions, etc) Send\n subscribe commands to grassu-request@amber.cecer.army.mil.\n\n grassp-list@amber.cecer.army.mil (for GRASS programmers; system-level\n questions and tips, tricks, and techniques of design and implementation\n of GRASS applications) Send subscribe commands to\n grassp-request@amber.cecer.army.mil.\n\n Both lists are maintained by the Office of Grass Integration (subset of\n the Army Corps of Engineers Construction Engineering Research Lab in\n Champaign, IL). The OGI is providing the lists as a service to the\n community; while OGI and CERL employees will participate in the lists,\n we can make no claim as to content or veracity of messages that pass\n through the list. If you have questions, problems, or comments, send\n E-mail to lists-owner@amber.cecer.army.mil and a human will respond.\n\nMicrostation Imager\n-------------------\n Intergraph (based in Huntsville Alabama) sells a wide range of GIS\n software/hardware. Microstation is a base graphics package that Imager\n sits on top of. Imager is basically an image processing package with a\n heavy GIS/remote sensing flavor.\n\n Feature Description\n\n Basic geometry manipulations: flip, mirror, rotate, generalized affine.\n Rectification: Affine, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th order models as well as a\n projective model (warp an image to a vector map or to another image).\n RGB to IHS and IHS to RGB conversion. Principal component analysis.\n Classification: K-means and isodata. Fourier Xforms: Forward, filtering\n and reverse. Filters: High pass, low pass, edge enhancing, median,\n generic. Complex Histogram/Contrast control. Layer Controller: manages\n up to 64 images at a time -- user can extract single bands from a 3 band\n image or create color images by combining various individual bands, etc.\n\n The package is designed for a remote sensing application (it can handle\n VERY LARGE images) and there is all kinds of other software available\n for GIS applications.\n Host Configuration Requirements\n\n It runs on Intergraph Workstations (a Unix machine similar to a Sun)\n though there were rumors (there are always rumors) that the software\n would be ported to PC and possibly a Sun environment.\n\nPCI\n---\n A company called PCI, Inc., out of Richmond Hill, Ontario, Canada, makes\n an array of software utilities for processing, manipulation, and use of\n remote sensing data in eight or ten different \"industry standard\"\n formats: LGSOWG, BSQ, LANDSAT, and a couple of others whose titles I\n forget. The software is available in versions for MS-DOS, Unix\n workstations (among them HP, Sun, and IBM), and VMS, and quite possibly\n other platforms by now. I use the VMS version.\n\n The \"PCI software\" consists of several classes/groups/packages of\n utilities, grouped by function but all operating on a common \"PCI\n database\" disk file. The \"Tape I/O\" package is a set of utility\n programs which read from the various remote-sensing industry tape\n formats INTO, or write those formats out FROM, the \"PCI database\" file;\n this is the only package I use or know much about. Other packages can\n display data from the PCI database to one or another of several\n PCI-supported third-party color displays, output numeric or bitmap\n representation of image data to an attached printer, e.g. an Epson-type\n dot-matrix graphics printer. You might be more spe- cifically\n interested in the mathematical operations package: histo- gram and\n Fourier analysis, equalization, user-specified operations (e.g.\n \"multiply channel 1 by 3, add channel 2, and store as channel 5\"), and\n God only knows what all else -- there's a LOT. I don't have and don't\n use these, so can't say much about them; you only buy the packages your\n particular application/interest calls for.\n\n Each utility is controlled by from one to eight \"parameters,\" read from\n a common \"parameter file\" which must be (in VMS anyway) in your \"default\n directory.\" Some utilities will share parameters and use the same\n parameter for a different purpose, so it can get a bit confusing setting\n up a series of operations. The standard PCI environment contains a\n scripting language very similar to IBM-PC BASIC, but which allows you to\n automate the process of setting up parameters for a common, complicated,\n lengthy or difficult series of utility executions. (In VMS I can also\n invoke utilities independently from a DCL command procedure.) There's\n also an optional programming library which allows you to write compiled\n language programs which can interface with (read from/write to) the PCI\n data structures (database file, parameter file).\n\n The PCI software is designed specifically for remote-sensing images, but\n requires such a level of operator expertise that, once you reach the\n level where you can handle r-s images, you can figure out ways to handle\n a few other things as well. For instance, the Tape I/O package offers a\n utility for reading headerless multi-band (what Adobe PhotoShop on the\n Macintosh calls \"raw\") data from tape, in a number of different\n \"interleave\" orders. This turns out to be ideal for manipulating the\n graphic-arts industry's \"CT2T\" format, would probably (I haven't tried)\n handle Targa, and so on. Above all, however, you HAVE TO KNOW WHAT\n YOU'RE DOING or you can screw up to the Nth degree and have to start\n over. It's worth noting that the PCI \"database\" file is designed to\n contain not only \"raster\" (image) data, but vectors (for overlaying map\n information entered via digitizing table), land-use, and all manner of\n other information (I observe that a remote-sensing image tape often\n contains all manner of information about the spectral bands, latitude,\n longitude, time, date, etc. of the original satellite pass; all of this\n can go into the PCI \"database\").\n\n I _believe_ that on workstations the built-in display is used. On VAX\n systems OTHER than workstations PCI supports only a couple of specific\n third-party display systems (the name Gould/Deanza seems to come to\n mind). One of MY personal workarounds was a display program which would\n display directly from a PCI \"database\" file to a Peritek VCT-Q (Q-bus\n 24-bit DirectColor) display subsystem. PCI software COULD be \"overkill\"\n in your case; it seems designed for the very \"high end\"\n applications/users, i.e. those for whom a Mac/PC largely doesn't suffice\n (although as you know the gap is getting smaller all the time). It's\n probably no coincidence that PCI is located in Canada, a country which\n does a LOT of its land/resource management via remote sensing; I believe\n the Canadian government uses PCI software for some of its work in these\n areas.\n\nSPAM (Spectral Analysis Manager)\n--------------------------------\n Back in 1985 JPL developed something called SPAM (Spectral Analysis\n Manager) which got a fair amount of use at the time. That was designed\n for Airborne Imaging Spectrometer imagery (byte data, <= 256 pixels\n across by <= 512 lines by <= 256 bands); a modified version has since\n been developed for AVIRIS (Airborne VIsual and InfraRed Imaging\n Spectrometer) which uses much larger images.\n\n Spam does none of these things (rectification, classification, PC and\n IHS transformations, filtering, contrast enhancement, overlays).\n Actually, it does limited filtering and contrast enhancement\n (stretching). Spam is aimed at spectral identification and clustering.\n\n The original Spam uses X or SunView to display. The AVIRIS version may\n require VICAR, an executive based on TAE, and may also require a frame\n buffer. I can refer you to people if you're interested. PCW requires X\n for display.\n\nMAP II\n------\n Among the Mac GIS systems, MAP II is distributed by John Wiley.\n\nCLRview\n-------\n CLRview is a 3-dimensional visualization program designed to exploit\n the real-time capabilities of Silicon Graphics IRIS computers.\n\n This program is designed to provide a core set of tools to aid in the\n visualization of information from CAD and GIS sources. It supports\n the integration of many common but disperate data sources such as DXF,\n TIN, DEM, Lattices, and Arc/Info Coverages among others.\n\n CLRview can be obtained from explorer.dgp.utoronto.ca (128.100.1.129) \n in the directory pub/sgi/clrview.\n\n Contact:\n Rodney Hoinkes\n Head of Design Applications\n Centre for Landscape Research\n University of Toronto\n Tel: (416) 978-7197\n Email: rodney@dgp.utoronto.ca\n\n==========================================================================\n\nEnd of Resource Listing", "is it possible to fit an FPU in a mac SE? (not a SE/30, but the plain\nold SE); if possible, would I get any speed increase? what would be\nthe reference of the chip?\n\nthanks in advance,\n\n", "Any info on modern 20MHZ or better dual trace scopes would be appreciated.\nShould I buy a used one or a new one? And where?\n\nPlease E-Mail.\n\nThanks in advance.\n\nKen", "\nSW8,SW7\tnumber of 5.25\" drives\n0,0\t1 drive\n0,1\t2 drives\n1,0\t3 drives\n1,1\t4 drives\n\nSW6,SW5\ttype of display\n0,0\treserved\n0,1\t40x25 color (mono mode)\n1,0\t80x25 color (mono mode)\n1,1\tmono 80x25\n\nSW4,SW3\tamount of memory on system board\n\t64k chips\t256k chips\n0,0\t64k\t\t256k\n0,1\t128k\t\t512k\n1,0\t192k\t\t576k\n1,1\t256k\t\t640k", "We have recently purchased a Tektronix xterminal, and I'm having\na problem with it. We have a graphics widget that we wrote to\ndisplay waveforms, and it doesn't work on the xterminal. the buttons,\netc, all show up, and it seems to take the 'right' amount of time to\ndraw, but nothing is visible in the graphics window. I\nhave no clue as to where to start looking: the program works fine\non all our suns (3s and 4s, color and B&W). could anyone suggest a\nline of attack for this problem?\n\nTekXpress XP380 color xterminal running 6.0.0. host is a Sun IPX\nrunning SunOS 4.1.3 and X11R5, PL17.\n", "I have an SE/30 with a 80 meg HD which dates back to April 1989. When I\noriginally purchased it, I experienced the failure to boot problem. This\nwas fixed soon after by a ROM upgrade on the hard drive.\n\nLately a similar problem has been occuring. When the computer is\npowered on the HD light flashes a few times and then I am given\nthe \"no disk to boot from\" icon. However, upon turing the\ncomputer off and on again the drive ALWAYS boots up just fine. \nFurthermore, if instead of turning the power on and off I press the reboot \nbutton the same problem occurs. But, as I said, turning the power\noff and on always works.\n\nThis problem is different from the 1989 boot problem in that before\nit often required several power off and ons to get it to boot.\n\nDoes anybody have any suggestions as to what the problem is or how\nit can be fixed?\n\nI'm wondering if it's getting old and requires more time to \n\"come up to speed\" now. Is there a PRAM or SCSI setting that\nallows me to tell the computer to wait a little longer before \ntrying to access the HD?\n\nThanks!\n", "I own an 8088 640K clone which does all I want except run 1 game I want\nto buy. The game says it requires a 80286 with 640K. Game tech. support\nsays game will run on 8088 but uses a some digitized graphics which would\nmake it run really *slow* (it's a card game - Hoyles Classic Card Games,\ndigitized graphics are photos artwork of game fictional card players).\n\nWhat can I do to speed up how this game would run, short of an 80286\nmotherboard upgrade. Co-processor? Accelerator card mimicking 80286?\nMy 8088 can run at 10 Mhz. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.", "I don't seem to be able to get window positions reliably through\nthe XView xv_get() function:\n\n x = (int) xv_get(my_frame, XV_X);\n y = (int) xv_get(my_frame, XV_Y);\n\nFor example, if I set XV_X & XV_Y to 50,50 the frame comes up\nin the correct position, with the top left corner (the size\nhandle) at 50,50. xv_get() returns 50,50 as well. But later on\nxv_get() returns 5,25 without any intervening xv_set(my_frame,\nXV_?). My frame is fitted around a canvas, and it turns out\n(by measuring on the screen) that 5,25 is the position of the\nfirst pixel in my canvas relative to the frame's origin. What\ngives? Any help most appreciated!\n\nDerek\n\nP.S. On a related subject, is there any way of querying the\nwindow manager as to the thickness of borders it puts around\nframes, etc.?\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------", "\n[edited]\n\n\n\nWell for starters, why use rle files? You might have a specific program that\nneeds them, OK, but I tend to convert straight to jpeg format, thus a 2.4meg\n24bit targa file becomes a ~80k or less 24bit jpeg.\n\nThe latest versions of XV (2.2.1 ?) and xloadimage (3.03) both handle jpeg files.\nAnd the best way to convert to jpeg is with the c/djpeg suit. Even at 90%\nquality (you can't see the difference) the jpeg is way smaller than anything\nelse even an 8bit gif!\n\nLater'ish\nCraig", "caching\ndrive\nfor?", "I recall that Ehman 'died'...\n\nCan anyone suggest what the problem is when the picture jumps\nabout an inch any direction?\n\nTwo page monchrome monitor connected to Newlife accelerator and \nvideo board in an SE... At the end of the work day, several hours\nwith power on, the picture will occasionally jitter a couple of times\nand then remain calm for a few minutes. Then it does more shaking...\n\nThe environment around the computer appears to be stable. Nothing\nnewly introduced near the computer. \n\nAny ideas? Please e-mail to carsona@sfu.ca or reply here.\n\nAlso... Has anyone used Ehman two page with Powerbook video? What\nwas required? Just a cable adapter?\n\nThanks for any help!\n\nDale\ncarsona@sfu.ca", "Most of these are C.S. books. There are also some Math and Physics\nbooks. For books marked as \"New\", the condition is *perfect*. All\nother books are in good condition.\n\nShipping: Buyer pays $1 per book.\n\nHere is the list:\n\n\n*** If you hate the prices, email me an offer... \n\n\n=========================================================================\nTitle / author orig. price asking price\n=========================================================================\n\n\nCommunication Networks $52.25++ $42 New!\n(Walrand)\n\n\nComputer Origanisation and $58.85++ $42\nArchitecture\n(Stallings)\n2-nd edition\n\n\nAI and the Design of Expert $45.80++ $35\nSystems\n(Lugar & Stubberfiled)\n\n\nArtificial Intelligence $46.25++ $39 New!\n(Patrick Henry Winston)\n2-nd edition\n\n\nOperating System Concepts\n(Silberschaltz, Peterson, Galvin) $50++ $39\n\n\nA Book on C $34.25 $20\n(Kelley, Pohl)\n2-nd edition\n\n\nTeach Youself C ??? $10\n(Siegal)\n\n\nUnderstanding Hard Disk Management ??? $10 New!\non the PC\n(Jonathan Kamin)\n\n\n****\nMath\n****\n\nFreshmen Calculus\t\t ???\t$9\n(big, hard cover book)\n\nDiscrete Math with Application $50.95 $40\n(Susanna S. Epp)\n\n\nA course in Linear Algebra ??? $20 New!\n(Damiano, Little)\n\n\nSchaum's outline series: $11.95 $6\nLinear Algebra\n\n\n*******\nPhysics\n*******\n\nFoundations of Physics $58.95 $48 New!\n(Halliday, Resnick)\n3-rd edition\n\n\n\nAlso selling: GRE books.. Both are *brand new*. (Never used)\n\nARCO GRE General test.\n(Big, red book)\t\t\t$19\n\nARCO computer Science GRE\t$13\n\n\nPlease send email if interested.\n", "Does anyone know if there are any devices available for the Mac which\nwill increase the number of serial ports available for use\nsimultaneously? I would like to connect up to 8 serial devices to my\nMac for an application I am working on. I must be able to access each\none of the independently.\n\nIf such a device exists, are there are any limits to the number of\nserial devices I can use?\n\nAny information is appreciated.", "I have a HP 1740 scope that (I think) has a problem in the HV section.\nSymptom: started turning on and off on its own, making intermittant\nbright flashes on the CRT, and then finally, passed away. If you\nhave a manual (or any suggestions), please send me mail. Will gladly\npay reproduction/shipping costs plus a little $ for your efforts for\nthe manual. Thanks in advance.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t--- Jeff", "\n\nIf you use System 7, you can use my application Zing which has\na 30 kB footprint (meaning you can have it running all the time\nwithout losing memory)\n\nIt is also compatible with the chat program \"FishBomb\" which allows\nsounds and pictures as well.\n\nBoth are, as far as I know, freeware (I dustribute Zing with source)\nand should be available on the normal services (mac.archive.umich.edu\nfor instance)\n\nCheers,\n\n\t\t\t\t\t/ h+", "\tThis is pure bull. I've had the 24 bit mode (640x480 and 800x600)\n\tworking since the version before 59 (??55??). Bld 59 added \n\tthe 24 bit option to Flexpanel. Try getting the drivers from \n\tftp.cica.indiana.edu or wuarchive.\nMine is:\nGateway 486 DX2/50 LB\n8 Megs ram\nIDE HD\nATI GUP w/ 2MB (installed upgrade myself)\nBLD 59 drivers.\n\n", "> MOTOROLA EXPO VHF 2WATT/2CHAN. HT--------[new]-------$1200.00\n> Would like $400, or BEST OFFER!!!\n\nI'm sure that the Motorola is worth it, but this kind of thing\nhas always mystified me. $400 is the price of very good, new\ndual-band, fully synthasized HT. Yes, yes, I know Motorola\nHTs are bullet-proof, unbreakable, plutonium-based \nindestructable -- you can drive a tank over them and they'll\nstill work. But just how often does that come up? Why are hams\nwilling (and they *are*) to spend the price of a synthaszied\ndual-bander for a 2-channel xtal rig??? Note: this is not\na flame; as I said, I'm sure this is a good deal for this rig.\nI'm just amazed that it *is* a good deal. I would have guessed\nthat a 2 channel xtal rig could never be worth as much as a dual-\nbander to a ham, no matter how durable. Just shows you how wrong\n*I* can be.\n\nMike, N4PDY", "ha... all this talk about changing the clock speed of the q700 makes me ask??\n if i replaced the 8mhz 68000 in my plus with a 16mhz 68000 with a 16mhz\nclock occilater of its own( not shared by the rest of the mac... just the new\n16mhz68000) would my mac work..... and if it would work.. would you think there\nwhere be any problems with sound, vidio,scsi........\n\nit seems like a simple solution to keepa dead slow mechine a\nlive a little longer..\n Oh if this would not work any idears on how to make it work???\n\t\tthanks\n\t\t\n\t\t alex", "Whistler Spectrum 2-SE. X, K, Ka. Pulse protection. Good condition. \nPurchased for $130, asking for $80.", "Excerpts from cmu.comp.sys.mac: 5-Apr-93 Re: SE Serial Port Speed???? by\nSamuel John Kass@andrew. \nactually a 14.4 kbps modem using standard compression (v3.2 v4.2.bis?)\ncna reach 57,600 bps, however I have not seen any server modems that\nhave hardware compression. I have been told the annex modems here break\nup at ~36k, but I have never seen faster than 14.4kbps.", "\n\n\n\n\nDanny...\n\nWhile working on my shareware toolbar, I found myself 'eating' resources,\nand a very wise person pointed me to the SDK, and specifically the debug\nkernel. Once you have all the SDK stuff installed, (this also comes with\nVC++), you run 'n2d' which does a 'normal-to-debug' swap. The debug kernel\nruns C O N S I D E R A B L Y slower, but you then execute the command\nDBWIN, and let it report to you what is going on. You are going to find\nout a lot more about your Apps than you cared to, and possibly about other\npeoples Apps (is that OPA?..I'm sorry). \n\nIf this doesn't make sense, repost, or e-mail me\n\ndave\n\n-- \n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDave Campbell at WynApse | WynApse\n wynapse@indirect.com | The Shareware Custom Control Source", "Do all SCSI cards for DOS systems require a separate device driver to be loaded\ninto memory for each SCSI device hooked up? Will this also be true of the 32-bit\nOS's?\n\nThanks.", "I'm selling $388 worth of chemicals for $100 or I'll split it in two for $50\ndollars apeice. Aprox. 380 1oz bottles. Will make a great chem set.\n Will pay shipping up to $15. If really interested I will mail a partial list.\nPlease contact by e-mail only \n", "[This belongs in comp.windows.x.i386unix - I've redirected followups]\n\n\nI know for a fact that the EISA version of the Orchid ProDesigner IIS\nworks. However, an EISA SVGA card is likely a waste of money.\n\nWhen XFree86 2.0 comes out, with support for accelerated chipsets, ISA,\nEISA, and VLB will all be supported.\n\nThe more important question is \"what chipsets are supported?\". The bus\nis basically irrelevent as a compatibility issue.\n\n--\nDavid Wexelblat (908) 957-5871 Fax: (908) 957-5627\nAT&T Bell Laboratories, 200 Laurel Ave - 3F-428, Middletown, NJ 07748\n\nXFree86 requests should be addressed to ", "\nhmm... not that I am an authority on RISC ;-) but I clearly remember\nreading that the instruction set on RISC CPUs is rather large.\nThe difference is in addressing modes - RISC instruction sets are not\nas orthogonal is CISC.\n", " I heard FASTMicro went out of business. Is this true? \nThey don't answer their 800 number. It's 800-821-9000.\n", "*** Unecessary ...\nmight do it, too much trouble :)\n\n\n*** Agreed Mixali...\n\n\n*** Not entirely true..>\n\n\nTRUE ***\n\nUnecessary ...\n\n\tPath of least resistance (TM) :) :\nGet WinGIF 1.4 from cica (ftp.cica.indiana.edu pub/pc/win3/(desktop?) )\nIt will save to native .rle format unlike PSP (an otherwise fine, fine prog)\nMake a file using anything that has to be less than 30k, as Michael said,\nand less than 16 colors... Import it to WinGIF as gif, pcx or bmp and\nsave it in you windows/system subdir as vgalogo.rle (NOT .lgo). Exit Win,\nand run setup in the windows subdir. Reselect your _current_ config. Run\nWin. Voila'\n(minor correction: the .rle file has to be <30k. that means ~15k gif ?)\nHope it helps... (and please, please someone put this in the group's FAQ)\n\n", "\n\nWe've got a tempest receiver in the lab here, and there's no difficulty in\npicking up individual monitors. Their engineering tolerances are slack enough\nthat they tend to radiate on different frequencies. Even where they overlap, you\ncan discriminate because they have different line synch frequencies - you can\nlock in on one and average the others out.\n\nThe signals are weird in any case, with varying polarisations and all sorts\nof interactions with the building. Just moving a folded dipole around is also\nhighly effective as a (randomised) means of switching from one monitor to\nanother,", "Im new to Xlib programming. Im having a problem I hope someone here can\nhelp me with. I create a window, and I want it to have some background color,\nsay red, and draw an oval in it. Further, when I resize the window, I want\nto be able to redraw the image so that is fills the new window (whether it\nis larger or smaller.) Im using AIXwindows on an RS6000.\n\nMy problem is this: when I resize the window, only the \"original\" part of the\nwindow that was part of the window creation gets drawn into. Everything else\nis a grey..the oval \"tries\" to redraw itself but gets clipped. I can see that\nit WOULD be the right size if I could see all of it, but it only shows up in\nthe region that was the original size of the window when created.\n\nFor example, I start out the window at 200x200 in width and height. If I\nresize it to 400x400, the only part that has any color drawn into it is\nis from the origin out to 200x200..the rest is grey. Further the oval\nonly shows up in that 200x200 area.\n\nWhat am I doing wrong?? How can I get a window to resize and redraw a \nre-scaled image in it to take up the full size of the window?\n\nSecond question:\nCould someone tell me what Xaw and Xmu are???", "\n\n\nI am one of those middle-of-the-road GW2000 owners who is satisfied with\nmy system. I had my share of problems/corrections/phone conversations/etc. I'm\nsatisfied on what I got for my money.\n\nStephen R. Husak ", "I remember reading a thread a few days ago that mentioned removing an external\nsyquest drive from its case and dropping it in the internal drive of a Centris.\n. . I was going to do that with my 610, but had a couple of questions. My\nPLI 80M syquest drive has a wire from the drive to an id# switch on the\noutside of the case. Where do I connect this switch?? Can the computer just\n\"tell\" with internal drives? \n\tI noticed that the drive will lay over part of the motherboard (I\ndidn't look closely, but I seem to recall it laying over the ram that's\nsoldered onto the motherboard? Would that cause problems?\n\tOne last question! Is there anywhere to order a faceplate cover? \nthe drive's front panel is smaller than the space left in the case (the\ndrive's panel is the same size as the spotsBM clone's cases). Should I just\ncut a hole in the plastic panel that is currently holding tmpty place?", "These are two common subjects so I hope someone has had to deal with these\nspecific questions.\n\n1. If my application depends on modifiers, what is the best lookup method?\nMy choices are to call XGetModifierMapping() for each key press with a \nmodifier, or make the call once at the init of the app and store the modifiers\nin a lookup table. I would like to do it the second way, but I can't seem to\nget the notify when the user uses xmodmap to remap the modifiers. I know that\nwhen an app calls XSetModifierMapping() a MappingNotify event is generated\n(non-maskable) which I can pick up and modify my internal table. But, I don't\nseem to get any notify events when the user uses xmodmap. If I use Xt, all \nO'Reilly has to say is '...is automatically handled by Xt...'. If I use Xlib, ala XNextEvent(), I get nothing. This all stems from problems with users of \nthe Sun 4/5 keyboard and the NumLock; plus various Alt/Meta/etc. modifier \nrequirements.\n\n2. I would like to place a popup so that it will be to the immediate right\nof my main window. I want it at the same y coord, and their right/left\nsides touching. What I need to ask for is the x,y coord of the window \nmanager's border for the main window. This should ring a bell with anyone\nwho has called XtMoveWidget(), immediately checking the x,y after the move\nand seeing that it is right, and in their next callback asking for the x,y\nand seeing that it is now offset by the WM border.\n\nAny help would be most appreciated.", "Wanted: color monitor >= 14\" suitable for use on a Macintosh\nCentris 610. I am planning on purchasing one of these machines\nsoon and don't want to have to pay full price for a new monitor\nwhen a used one will do me just as well. If you have one you'd\nlike to part with, please email me with the specs and price.\n\nThanks.", "sale item: A brand new Stealth VRAM Hi-Color card w/ 1meg display\nprice : $135\n\nIt comes with: install disk\n\t\tTurbo windows 3.x drivers /w 24bit color\n\t\tHalo Desktop Imager (24bit) for windows 3.x\n\t\tAdvanced AutoCAD accelerator (includes Big Picture)\n\t\ta complete manual\n\nIf interested, please e-mail sunbum@cory.berkeley.edu", "Hello all!\n\nFor few past days I've been fighting to get My NEC Multisync 3D\n(predecessor of 3FG) to work properly with the internal video of Mac\nIIvi.\n\nWith a VGA-adapter (as described in Dale Adams' posting about Quadra\nvideo) it works, only some minor interferences occur, small enough not\nto prevent any action on screen to be visible & clear.\n\nBut because the scanrates & stuff of 3D are well enough for emulating\nApple 13\" RGB, I first made an adapter, then got one fron the local\ndistributor of NEC.\nWith both adapters I can get a picure, which looks excellent most of\nthe time or every now and then.\nBut with radical changes on screen (opening palettes, large windows\netc.) there are major interferences in sync. The picture either tilts\nsideways or scrables up totally. Even when it is clear, there are some\n\"spiky\" interferences on horizontal line alignment when accessing\npull-downs etc.\nWith the self-made adapter, almost identical to the VGA one, only\nsense pins differ, it is sometimes impossible to even boot up with a\npicture clear enough to shut down from menu...\nWith the adapter from NEC, everything is well most of the time, but\nsometimes the picture tilts badly sideways or the sync is completely\nlost. But not nearly as often as with the self-made one.\n\nI know, with self made adapters there can always be interference, but\nwith the one provided by NEC... where's the source of this interference?\n\nI'll give you the pinouts of the whole mess, and I hope that you can,\nat least someone (please try =) figure out what could be the best pin\nassignment for NEC 3D.\nI am going to make a completely new cable with maximum shieldings and\nisolations, as soon as someone figures out how the pins should be\narranged, especially syncs and groundings.\n\nYes, I have checked that the monitor is not defective, it works\nperfectly well with all PC graphic adapters up to 1024x768 pixels and\nalso Atari 71Hz monochrome, which I am using now with it.\n\nHere are the pinouts & stuff:\n\n15 pin mini D-sub (NEC 3D)\t\t15 pin D-sub (Mac, at least Quadra)\n\n1 Red Video\t\t\t\t1 Red GND\n2 Green Video\t\t\t\t2 Red Video\n3 Blue Video\t\t\t\t3 Composite Sync\n4 GND\t\t\t\t\t4 Sense 0\n5 GND\t\t\t\t\t5 Green Video\n6 Red GND\t\t\t\t6 Green GND\n7 Green GND\t\t\t\t7 Sense 1\n8 Blue GND\t\t\t\t8 NC\n9 NC\t\t\t\t\t9 Blue Video\n10 GND\t\t\t\t\t10 Sense 2\n11 GND\t\t\t\t\t11 C.Sync & V.Sync GND\n12 NC\t\t\t\t\t12 V.Sync\n13 H.Sync\t\t\t\t13 Blue GND\n14 V.Sync\t\t\t\t14 H.Sync GND\n15 NC\t\t\t\t\t15 H.Sync\nSHELL GND\t\t\t\tSHELL GND\n\n\n\nConnection suggested by Apple for VGA/SVGA, sense pins changed to\nemulate Apple 13\" with Multisync (my self-made adapter)\n\nMultisync (15pin mini D-sub)\tMac (15pin D-sub)\n\t \n\t 1 ---------------------- 2\n\t 2 ---------------------- 5\n\t 3 ---------------------- 9\n\t 6 ---------------------- 1\n\t 7 ---------------------- 6\n\t 8 ---------------------- 13\n\t 10 ---------------------- 14\n\t 13 ---------------------- 15\n\t 14 ---------------------- 12\n\t\t\t\t 4 (sense0) grounded to 11 (sync GND)\n\n\nConnection measured from an adapter to make NEC 3FG/4FG \nemulate Apple 13\" (adapter provided by NEC representative)\n\n\tNEC (15 mini) \tMac (15)\n\n\t1 ----------------------- 2\n\t2 ----------------------- 5\n\t3 ----------------------- 9\n\t4 ----------------------- SHELL GND, 1, 4, 6, 13\n\t5 ----------------------- same as above\n\t6 ----------------------- same...\n\t7 ----------------------- same...\n\t8 ----------------------- same...\n\t10 ----------------------- same...\n\t11 ----------------------- same...\n\t13 ----------------------- 3\n\t14 * Not Connected! *\n\t\n\nWell, I am waiting for your solutions...\n\nAnd thanks!\n", "In an attempt to do animation with POV I have created two little\nprograms. One is a C program that will perform a \"morph\" between\nany two points given the amount of frames for the morph. And then\nit will write the points, and the function (translate, rotate, etc.) out\nto a file. Then I have a Perl script that will read the list of functions\nand insert them into a .pov file at a given line. I had hoped this would\nlet me do simple animation. However, I have discovered that simply\nperforming incremental rotations on an object will not spin a stationary\nobject but will actually rotate the object about the axis. Now I know\nan easy way around this would be to first translate the object to the\norigin perform the rotation and then move it back but I know there \nmust be another way around this. I had thought perhaps it was because\nI had created objects at the origin and then translated them to a new\npoint and then done the rotation, which could cause this behavior. However\nthis occurs on objects that are not translated at all. Any help is \nappreciated.", "\n\n\nThis a wightened speed avarage for many windows tasks. The original\nposter (Ross Mitchell) was primary intersted in manipulating large\nimages, which implies moving a lot of data from memory to the card. \n\nDoes anyone have the benchmarks on this particular task?\n\n--\nPenio Penev x7423 (212)327-7423 (w) Internet: penev@venezia.rockefeller.edu", "Usually when I start up an application, I first get the window outline\non my display. I then have to click on the mouse button to actually\nplace the window on the screen. Yet when I specify the -geometry \noption the window appears right away, the properties specified by\nthe -geometry argument. The question now is:\n\nHow can I override the intermediary step of the user having to specify\nwindow position with a mouseclick? I've tried explicitly setting window\nsize and position, but that did alter the normal program behaviour.\n\nThanks for any hints\n---> Robert\n\nPS: I'm working in plain X.\n\n", ": >IS3does anyone know whether or not it is possible to have 2 monitors working\n: >IS3with Microsoft Windows 3.1? I have a Taxan Multi Vision 550 and a NEC\n\n: This may work when using a VGA and a Hercules card in one system, but\n: using two VGA-cards in one system will never work. \n\nI believe that two 8514 (8514/A?) may be used in tandem on one system.\nThis is the one exception to the VGA+Mono dual monitor combo that I\nhave heard about. Has anybody done this?", "I am wondering how to change the English fonts in an existed\nAPI to some multi-bytes fonts ? (such as Chinese, Japanese...)\nSomeone told me X11R5 supports some internationalization\nfeatures, but I cannot find any examples for my need. Is there\nanybody has done some similar jobs ?\n\nBy the way, all the English fonts should be replace by Chinese or\nJapanese fonts, that means in windows, menubar, button....\n\nThat will be great if someone can share us what you have done.\nThanks in advance.", ": Help: I am running some sample problems from O'Reilly volume 4,\n: Xt Intrisics Programming Manual, chapter 3. popup\n: dialog boxes and so on.\n: \n: In example 3.5, page 76 : \"Creating a pop-up dialog box\"\n: \n: The application creates window with a button \"Quit\" and \"Press me\".\n: The button \"Press me\" pops up a dialog box. The strange feature of\n: this program is that it always pops up the dialog box much faster the\n: first time. If I try to pop it up a 2nd time (3rd, 4th .... time), \n: it is *much* slower.\n: \n: Has anyone any experience with these sample programs, or why I get\n: this behaviour - fast response time for the first time but slow response\n: time from 2nd time onwards ?\n: Anyone can give me some ideas on how to program popups so that each time\n: they popup in reasonable fast response time ?\n: \n: Thankyou - Shirley\n\nThanks to those who responded.\n\nWe were able to prevent this behaviour by two methods:\n\n1) running twm rather than olwm\n2) keeping olwm, but putting \"wmTimeout: 10\" in the resources\n\nIt has been suggested that the difficuty was something to do with the\nwindow manager positioning the popup window. Any guru who can analyse\nwhat is going on from this information, please post and let us know.", "I need information on the Display PostScript strokeadjust feature.\nThis feature adjusts the endpoints of lines so that the displayed line\nlooks better on low resolution devices.\n\nThe PostScript literature explains the process to some extent. They\nalso give an example of how to \"emulate\" strokeadjust in PostScript\nenvironments where it is absent.\n\nThe suggested emulation is to modify the coordinates of the endpoints\nof a line using the following formula for each coordinate:\n\n\tnew_coord = (round (old_coord - 0.25)) + 0.25\n\t\nDoing this we end up with all coordinates ending in \".25\". From\nreading I thought that what they might actually do is:\n\n\tnew_coord = ((trunc (old_coord * 2)) / 2) + 0.25\n\t\nThis results in all the coordinates ending in either \"0.25\" or \"0.75\" \nwhichever is closer.\n\nBy doing some actual comparisons with Display PostScript, I find that\nneither of these is what DPS really uses. Since I like how the DPS\nresult looks better than how my stuff looks, I'd like to know if\nanyone who knows how DPS does it is willing/able to tell me.\n\nThanks,", "Does anyone know if there is a carrying case for the Centris 610? \n\nThanks for any info.\n", "I have written a server program which makes socket connections to many nodes\nand collects data from that nodes periodically. I need to display this data on\nmy X Application. I tried\nto invoke this server using XtAddAppTimeout which works ok. But the\nproblem here is some time there is delay in collecting data. So I doesn't\nreturns to EventLoop during that time and my application remains busy and\nIt doesn't respond to users input. I button press events are queued and\nexected after server finished its task. Now I am going to try AppAddInput\ncall. So that It reads pipe only when there is something to read in pipe.\n\nI am thinking of creating one pipe in which server will write and client\nwhich is my X application will read. Now I have some doubts which you may\nbe able to clarify.\n\n1) When I fork a process. It will create to copy of my process. Right !!\n Now what does this two copies mean? Two Shells. Where should I fork\n my application. What are the responsibilities of this processes. How\n should I call this processes.?\n\n2) Can I fork more than one processes. So that I can read from more\n than one servers input.\n\nThanks\n\nSamir Patel\n\n/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////\n\nspatel@cs.tamu.edu", "I have a project in mind that requires an array of LEDs that can be addressed\nindividually by a microprocessor (say, 16x16 or so). Is there an LSI that\nis designed to drive an LED array (including RAM to hold the array state),\nor failing that, some way of multiplexing the display so I don't have to\nlatch a bit for each LED using a discrete latch? (I want to avoid having\na huge board covered with 373s if possible!) Thanks in advance...", "\n: really involved there). Many people using Linux like to stay at the cutting\n: (bleeding) edge: ie. when kernel patches, C library or compiler patches come\n: out, people like to rebuild their entire systems. The prime requirement for\n: all Linux software is that it is available under a GNU style public license.\n: Hence, Linux software uses either the Athena widgets or XView.\n: Individuals may write software requiring Motif, but I doubt it is widely\n: adopted.\n\nShameless plug -- the Xaw3d widgets make Athena a much nicer\nalternative than the stock MIT Athena code.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t...Mike\n", "I have a 286 with an M205 motherboard. The Last Byte memory manager (which\nI downloaded for a trial) reports the chipset is an AddTech PCCHIP1 chipset,\nand it is able to activate the ram behind segments A000-FFFF, which can then be\nused for UMBs (except for video/BIOS). I would like to write my own driver to\nactivate the memory. Does anyone know where I can get programming information\non this chip?", "Seagate ST-212, HH, 10MB, $25\n\nIBM, FH, 30MB, $70\n\nThey all are MFM type and in good working condition.\n\nBuyers pay shipping.", "Environment:\n\tX11R4\n\tMotif 1.1.4\n\tSun IPC 4.1.3\n\nProblem:\n\tWhen mouse is moved across screen horizontally, the sprite goes off\n\tof the edge of the screen and reappears at the *other* edge.\n\tIt appears that the server thinks we are running in multi-screen\n\tmode; the cursor seems to \"wrap\" from one side of the screen to\n\tthe other.\n\tAs far as we can tell, we are not running the server in multi-screen\n\tmode.\n\nPlease reply via E-mail.\n", "\nI worked in support for a while at a company and we had problems with several\nToshiba 1600's in a short space of time. They were all around 2 years old.\nSome screens went completely (as above), others were just \"dodgy\".\n\nThis happened to about 5 or 6 out of, maybe 100. They were fairly reliable up\nto then and I don't think it was a special problem with Tosh's (no link to the\ncompany). So I would think that 21 months may not be unreasonable - just\nunlucky!\n\nRegards,\n\nKate. :)|", "I have a question about recursive, backward raytracing.\n\nWhen an incident ray (I) strikes an object at point P, first\nthe normal (N) is calculated. Light rays are calculated (L1 to Ln \nwhere n is the number of light sources) - these being the light\nrays that do not intersect with anything. The reflected ray (R) and\nthe transmitted ray (T) is calculated from the formulae.\n\nCalling the routine recursively on R and T will return the colours \nalong the rays (R and T) as rCol and tCol. Each object has its own\ncolour oCol and each light source has liCol (1 <= i <= n).\n\nThe question is: \n How do you combine rCol, tCol, oCol and all the liCol's to get\n the correct resulting colour to return along the I ray?\n\nAll colours are defined as strucures (records) having r, g, b components\nbetween 0 and 1.\n\nIf anyone has done this before could you give me a few hints?\n\n--\nAdrian Secchia", "\n\n\nIn SGI's distribution with their Indigo line (others as well, possibly),\nthey include source code for a GL widget that fits on top of Motif, and\none that's Xt based as well. You may wish to ask IBM whether they\nsupport this.\n--", "\nFor the past week or so I've been trying to install a QIC-36 tape drive\nand an everex 8bit full size controller in my 486dx50 EISA system with no\nluck. I end up getting an error (miscompare) during the streaming read\npart of the test. I am pretty certain that the port setting, irq & dma are\nset properly since the tape responds properly to all commands, rewind,\nretension, write and erase, I also booted the system clean and still the\nsame proble so I also tend to eliminate any memory conflicts. It has been\nsuggested that my bus speed is too fast and that I need to slow it down.\nMy system has an AMI BIOS and I don't have the advanced chip setting\noption that I have seen on other systems so I cant do this. Am I going to\nhave to accept that this set up won't work? or can anyone suggest a work\naround? I will be glad to hear your advice/suggestions.\nTony\n\n\n", "Hi there,\n \nI have a problem here, I've lost the software drivers and\nsetup programs for my Hardcard. Can someone email me the\nfiles, or let me know if Plus Development (were they\nbought out by Quantum?) has a BBS or phone #?\n\nI have a Hardcard II XL50.", "\t\t\t While there may not be a part number for the CD300i drive, I have seen\na part number for the bezel kit (a new front panel with the slot in it\nthrough which you insert the CD). The document (which I got from the\n2/10/93 announcement at our Apple office) states the drive kit and bezel\nkits are separate items and the bezel kit has an SRP of $149 fro the C650.\nThe external unit may be a better deal after all.", "I have an application running in one window. In this application,\nI'd like to iconize this window, and later deiconize back to window.\nHow could I do it? Your help would be appreciated.", "\n\n ~~~~~~~~~~FOR SALE as of 5PM 4/02/93~~~~~~~~~~\n\n 1 AMIGA 3000UX 25mhz, unix compatible machine w/100 meg Hard\n\t\t Drive, 4 meg RAM, no monitor, keyboard (ESC and ~ keys \n\t\t broken)\n\t\t ASKING PRICE: $1700 OBO.\n\nMind my asking why you're selling a used machine with a damaged\nkeyboard for the about the same price as a brand new A4000/030\n(A4000-EC030/4 megs/120meg IDE HD/HD Floppy/v3.0 OS - $1899)?\n\nI'd like to get an A3000 locally for something reasonable like less\nthan 1K without monitor. Brand new the A3000-25mhz/50 meg HD/HD\nfloppy/2.1 ROM isn't running for more than $1400 or so.\n\nConsidering it's damaged, probabably has a real old version of the OS\nI'll offer $700. Don't laugh...my A2000 isn't worth more than\n$250-$300 these days.\n\nN. Tzeng", "Can anyone offer a suggestion on a problem I am having?\nI have several boards whose sole purpose is to decode DTMF tones and send\nthe resultant in ASCII to a PC. These boards run on the serial interface.\nI need to run * of the boards somwehat simultaneously. I need to be able to ho\nok them up to a PC> The problem is, how do I hook up 8+ serial devices to one\nPC inexpensivley, so that all can send data simulataneously (or close to it)?\nAny help would be greatly appreciated!\nAbhin Singla\n", "This is turning into a FAQ\n\n\nHere is how to violate your Quadra 700 warranty and install your own\nmemory.\n\n1) Insert usual disclaimer here\n \n2) Remove the top lid of the machine. You will see the floppy disk and\n hard drive mounted in a plastic tower. Follow the usual anti-static\n precautions and of course make sure the machine is OFF when you do\n this. Unplug the wall and monitor power supply cords from the back\n\tof the mac.\n \n3) Remove the power supply by pulling the plastic interlocking tab on the\n tower forward and simultaneously pulling the power supply straight up.\n The tab is a piece of plastic from the left posterior aspect of the\n tower which extends downward to hook on to the power supply. You may\n also feel a horseshoe shaped piece at the right portion of the power\n supply. Leave that alone. The plastic tab from the tower is all you\n need release.\n \n4) Look at the rear of the tower assembly. You will see the flat ribbon\n SCSI connector to the hard drive, a power cable and a flat ribbon cable\n leading to the floppy drive. Disconnect all these from the motherboard.\n The hard drive power cable connector has a tab which must be squeezed\n to release it.\n \n5) Unplug the drive activity LED from its clear plastic mount\n\n6) Look down the posterior, cylindrical section of the plastic tower. A\n phillips head screw is at the base. Remove it, taking care not to drop\n it into the case. A bit of gummy glue on your screwdriver is helpful\n here.\n\n7) Remove the tower assembly by pulling medially the plastic tab on the\n right side of the tower. This tab prevents the tower from sliding\n\tposteriorly. Slide the entire tower assembly 1 cm posteriorly then\n\tlift the tower assembly straight up and out of the case.\n\n8) Congratulations, you have now gained access to your machine's SIMM\n slots.\n\n9) The six big slots are for VRAM. One usually must install all six to\n gain useful video modes. All SIMMS (RAM or VRAM) installed with their\n\tchips facing the front of the motherboard.\n\t\n The four smaller sockets in front are for RAM SIMMS. Install SIMMS in\n\tsets of four into these sockets. Be sure you seat the SIMMS squarely\n\tand firmly into a fully upright position.\n\t\n10) Reinstall the tower assembly by first placing the right wall of the\n tower against the right wall of the case with the tower assembly about\n\t1 cm posterior of its intended position. Lower the tower assembly into\n\tplace while maintaining contact with the right wall of the case.\n Once fully down, slide the tower assembly anteriorly until it clicks\n into place.\n\t\n11) Reconnect the motherboard ends of the cables. DONT'T FORGET THE FLOPPY\n DRIVE CABLE.\n\n12) Replace the phillips head screw\n\n13) Drop the power supply straight down into place until it clicks in.\n\n14) Plug the hard drive activity light back into its clear plastic mount", "\n\nSpeaking of that.....\nMy comp has \"emmexclude=$e000-$efff\" or something of that nature in the\nsystem.ini file. Or some system file for *windows*.\n\nI was just wondering if having that line in a *windows* startup file is\nbetter, as it will give some more memory on dos apps., but disable it\nwhen you run windows?\n\n(Actually, I *do* think that that line is also in the system.1 file)\n\npeace,\nMickey", "I have heard of two packages for the PC that support X-Win.\nThe first is Linux which is a free Unix Package. The Second\nis X-Appeal, which sounds pretty good. It can be found at\n garbo.uwusa.fi in the ~ftp/pc/demo/ dir. The files are\n\n\txap13exe.zip\n\txap10fon.zip\n\tdrivers.zip\n\nThis should get you started.\n\nJosh.", "The title says all.\n\n(not IBM brand)", "I have an 8514/A card, and I am using windows in 1024x768 mode \n\t(normal 8514/A font, not small). In the 386 enhanced mode\n\tthe DOS window font is too small for my 14\" monitor. Is there a \n\tway to spacify the font size for the DOS window? You'll have to \n\texcuse me if there is a trivial answer, since I am fairly new to\n\tMS Windows world.\n\n\tThanks.", "Here's what I (think) have figured out. All I need to do is install\nthe R5 disitribution without the Xserver like the sony.cf file defines,\nand all the new libraries, utils, etc., will be installed and my old\nserver from r4 will still work. This will allow me to run Xview 3.0,\nand have X11r5 up and running. Does the server interface remain the\nsame with all changes made only to the libs?\n\nAnother question: Is it likely that since Sun is dropping OW support\nthat the desktop utils (like the file manager) will be made public?\nIt would be nice if companies would make old code public for the\nbenefit of those of us with smaller budgets. :)\n-- \nmike@hopper.acs.virginia.edu ", "When I use File Manager's disk copy, I find that\nWindows (3.1) can read the whole 1.2MB disk at one time, \nbut only 98% of a 1.44 disk. It looks like a problem\nof memory. However, The PC has 4MB RAM. There should be some \nway to allocat more extended memory for disk copy. \nPlease advise me on this matter. Thanks in advance.", "For Sale : Casio Digital Diary Electronic Organizer (SF-4000)\n\t\t32k RAM\n\t\twill hold approxmiately 1500 names/phone numbers\n\t\tBig 6 line display\n\t\t200 Year Visible Calendar\n\t\tSchedule Function\n\t\tMemo Bank\n\t\tTelephone Name, Number, Address Storage\n\t\tCalculator\n\n\t\tCompact folding design fits in your pocket", "Laser printers often emit ozone (which smells sort of like Clorox).\nAdequate ventilation is recommended.\n", "I am curious: what does the /double_buffer parameter in smartdrv actually do\nfor me? I seem to have less problems in Windows when I leave it out.\n\nUsing a PS/2 with an ESDI drive, but also a PS/2 with a SCSI.\n\nAny response is welcome.", "\nI would guess that it requires X, almost certainly DV/X, which commonly\nuses the GO32 (DJGPP) setup for its programs. If you don't have DV/X\nrunning, you can't get anything which requires interfacing with X.\n", "\n\n\nI have the same card, TVGA-8900c. When I checked, the latest driver for\nwindows 3.1 is dated Aug. 92 in garbo.uwasa.fi in /win31/drivers/video.\nIf you find a better version (updated) please let me know, Thanks.\n", "\nThe file that would be a problem is DBLSPACE.BIN, not .EXE.", "\nThis chip would take 25ns to return valid data after being issued an address.\n\nRefresh time (none for SRAM, as you pointed out) is a different parameter,\nand is not generally referred to except by motherboard designers.\n\n", "\nBecause SCSI works well with removable media, and works well with large\ncapacity devices. The floppy interface you suggest handles the former, but\nit doesn't have any hooks for dealing with the latter... you'd have to kludge\nit. Plus, it's extremely low performance. AND, SCSI has gobs of room for\nexpansion compared with a floppy (I can just see it, let's stick a 5.25\",\na 3.5\", a tape drive, and a MO drive, all on the floppy interface. The\npossibilities for unexpected collisions are enormous).", "As I announced at the X Technical Conference in January, I would like to\nmake Imake-TeX, the Imake support for using the TeX typesetting system,\npublically available. Currently Imake-TeX is in beta test here at the\ncomputer science department of Dortmund University, and I am looking for\nsome more beta testers, preferably with different TeX and Imake\ninstallations.\n\n-- \n Dipl.-Inform. Rainer Klute I R B : immer richtig beraten\n Univ. Dortmund, IRB\n Postfach 500500 |)|/ Tel.: +49 231 755-4663\nD-W4600 Dortmund 50 |\\|\\ Fax : +49 231 755-2386", "Greetings all.\n\tAccording to a FAQ I read, on 30 July 1992, Joshua C. Jensen posted an \narticle on bitmap manipulation (specifically, scaling and perspective) to the \nnewsgroup rec.games.programmer. (article 7716)\n\tThe article included source code in Turbo Pascal with inline assembly \nlanguage.\n\n\tI have been unable to find an archive for this newsgroup, or a current \nemail address for Joshua C. Jensen.\n\tIf anyone has the above details, or a copy of the code, could they \nplease let me know.\tMany thanks.\n\t\t\t\t\tYours gratefully, etc. Myles.\n", "Is there an FTP archive for United States Geological Services (USGS)\nterrain data? If so, where?\n", "\n\namen.. I too have learned by example, specifically yours. :)\n\n\n.. but dorsai leads the way.. Unlike other services that are commercial\nin nature, dorsai is a community based service. While others charge\nmonthly fees for access, dorsai accepts donations from those who can\nafford to contribute.\n\n While other systems don't respond to user input, dorsai thrives on it.\nOther systems sell hardware for a profit, dorsai donates hardware to\ncommunity service groups, and to individuals who couldn't afford to\nnormally.\n\n Dorsai lives due to the \"hacker\" ethic of Charles, Jack, Skip, Cara,\nIra, Mark, David etc etc etc.. sleepless nights and days working on\nequipment thats been assembled at the embassy, ( and modifying what\never else available to work the first time..) in order to keep the\nslip line up...\n\n Heres to you bud... I'm one of the few that decided to\nstay, and am damn glad that I did..... :)\n\n\n\n\n\n", "I am working on an X-Window based application that needs to \noverride some of the window manager focus processing. I am \nusing X11R4 and Motif 1.1 currently, although I will also be \nworking with Open Look in the future.\n\n What I need to do is under certain circumstances prevent the \nuser from switching from one window of the application to \nanother window. Let's say, for example, that Window A is on top \nof Window B in the window hierarchy. Normally, if the user clicks \nthe mouse in Window B it will be brought to the top of the \nwindow hierarchy and placed on top of Window A. Under certain \ncircumstances if the user clicks the mouse in Window B I need to \nbeep and prevent Window B from being raised on top of Window \nA.\n\n From the research and testing I've done so far, it appears that \nthis window ordering is handled by the window manager, in this \ncase Motif. I haven't found any way to override this default \nprocessing through standard X Window functions. I can tell \nwhen this switching occurs through focus change and mapping \nnotify events, but I can't find any way to tell Motif not to make the \nswitch.\n\n The temporary solution I've currently come up with is very \nkludgy but it partially works. When I detect such a window switch \nin those cases when the switch is not allowed, I manually force \nthe formerly top window back on top with an XRaiseWindow call \nand beep with the XBell function. This provides the necessary \nfunctionality but looks ugly when the windows switch places \ntwice.\n\n Does anyone know how I can tell Motif (or preferably *any* \nwindow manager) when I don't want the window order switch to \nactually take place? Respond either by e-mail or posting to this \nnewsgroup.\n\nCheers.... Randall", "\nI'd get the IIci. It's more expandable, just as fast, and preserves the\noption to run System 6.\n\nDavid Gutierrez\ndrg@biomath.mda.uth.tmc.edu", "The title says it all. I need to know the 44, 88, and 88c rom versions.", "G'Day All,\n\nI'm looking for a program to convert BMP images to GIF, TGA or even PPM.\n\nI'd prefer a unix program, but Dos is fine also.\n\nI've seen Alchemy (for DOS) and some windows image viewers which can save\nan image in other formats, but what I'm after is a converter not a viewer...\n\nAny help would be apprieciated!\n\ncheers\nStephen.", "HI,\n that might look like a dull request, but I have been following this newgroup\nfor a couple of weeks and It didn't help me make my mind.\n\n I bought a new 486 machine not long ago after being disconnected from the\npc world for a while (I have been running on an xt 5MHz till last january!!).\nThe machine I bought came equipped with a ATI VGA XL 24 graphic card. It\ngives a very nice picture and the Windows drivers are pretty stable. The only\nproblem is that it is quite slow.\n\nI would like to go for a faster card (not in the 400$ range). I saw a lot\nof comments on many products over the last weeks, but didn't get an overall\npicture clear enough to make a choice. My question is : Could somebody\ndirect me to a source of information which would help me in my quest.\nI would like to get information about :\n - the refresh rates the various cards provide;\n - quality of windows drivers;\n - standard vga performance (non-Windows stuff).\n\nDirect me to a magazine article or something like that (I got winvid.zip \ninfo, but it is not enough). If you have an ISA card you are really satisfied\nwith it, let me know.\n\tIf this information is of any use, here is my system configuration:\n\t- Fujikama 486 33MHz ISA system (Contaq motherboard)\n\t- monitor DARIUS 14\" non-interlaced multisync (up to 1024X768) \n (can reach 70kHz horizontally) \n\nI would also like to know if it is a standard for video drivers to allow\nscreen dimensioning and screen positioning by writing on the EPROM of the\ngraphic card. This is the case with my ATI card and it is very convenient\nwhen changing graphics mode since my monitor is not intelligent \nenough to record settings.\n\nMerci a l'avance for any information you would be kind enough to provide me,", "Excuse the sheer newbieness of this post, but I am looking for a decent\nPaintProgram which will save to various file formats (.BMP .PCX etc etc)\nvia ftp, freeware, or shareware. I would like to check out the available\nprograms for little $$ before I check out the commercial market.\n\nThanks in advance for any help or direction you can give me.", "Is it possible to connect a atari monochrome monitor to some kind of VGA card?\n\nIf someone have done this please let me know how.\n\n\tThanx", "dhk@ubbpc.uucp (Dave Kitabjian) writes ...\n\n040 486 030 386 020 286\n\n\n060 fastest, then Pentium, with the first versions of the PowerPC\nsomewhere in the vicinity.\n\n\nNo. Computer speed is only partly dependent of processor/clock speed.\nMemory system speed play a large role as does video system speed and\nI/O speed. As processor clock rates go up, the speed of the memory\nsystem becomes the greatest factor in the overall system speed. If\nyou have a 50MHz processor, it can be reading another word from memory\nevery 20ns. Sure, you can put all 20ns memory in your computer, but\nit will cost 10 times as much as the slower 80ns SIMMs.\n\nAnd roughly, the 68040 is twice as fast at a given clock\nspeed as is the 68030.\n", "I am looking for a suitable UART for a project. What I require \nis a stand alone device (i.e. not cpu controlled) which will \nreceive 1200 baud RS232. Also a nice extra would be a received \ndata buffer. Please reply with any info you have.\n\nThanks,", "\n\n\nThis isn't entirely true. It is true that TrueType fonts are\nlarger than their ATM counterparts, but ATM fonts *do* get minimal\ncompression. Running Stacker 3.0 report generator, I get:\n\n\t File Type: Compression Ratio:\n\t ------------- ------------------\n\t *.TTF (TrueType) 1.4:1.0\n\t *.PFB (ATM) 1.1:1.0\n\t *.PFM (ATM Metric) 11.8:1.0\n\nAlthough the metric files are small, they compress quite largely.\nAnd, as you can see, even the regular .PFB files have *some* compression.\n\nSo, doing the math on one such comparitive font file:\n\nTTF Times = 83260 bytes/1.4 = 59471 bytes (compressed)\nPFB Times = 51549 bytes/1.1 = 46862 bytes (Compressed)\n\nYou still win out, even if the ATM Times font *isn't* compressed.\n\nYour mileage may vary depending on compression program.\n", "\nYeah, and it's also true most long complicated sequences of events,\ncalculations, or big computer programs in general. I don't argue\nthat you can get similar and maybe useful results from fractals, I\njust question whether you >should<.\n\nThe fractal fiends seem to be saying that any part of a system that we\ncan't model should be replaced with a random number generator. That\nhas been useful, for instance, in making data more palatable to human\nperception or for torture testing the rest of the system, but I don't\nthink it has much to do with fractals, and I certainly would rather\nthat the model be improved in a more explicable manner.\n\nI guess I just haven't seen all these earth-shaking fractal models\nthat explain and correlate to the universe as it actually exists. I\nreally hope I do, but I'm not holding my self-similar breath.\n\n\nUh huh. I'll believe it when I see it. I've been chasing fractal\ncompression for a few years, and I still don't believe in it. If it's so\ngreat, how come we don't see it competing with JPEG? 'Cause it can't,\nI'll wager.\n\nActually, I have wagered, I quit trying to make fractal compression\nwork- and I was trying- because I don't think it's a reasonable\nalternative to other techniques. It is neat, though. :-)\n\nI'll reiterate my disbelief that everything is fractal. That's why I\ndon't think fractal compression as it is widely explained is\npractical. I know Barnsley and Sloan have some tricks up their\nsleeves that make their demos work, but I don't see anyone using it in a\nreal product. It's been six years since Iterated Systems was formed,\nright?\n\n\t\"There are always going to be questions until there's a product\n\tout there,\" Sloan replies. The company plans to ship its first\n\tencoding devices in the summer, he says. In March, Iterated\n\tSystems will have the other half of the system: the decoders.\n\n\t\t- Scientific American, March 1990, page 77", "I heard a friend who just return from NAB from Las Vegas confirm\nthat RealSoft will be releasing a Windows version of REAL-3D 2.0\nthis summer. He was told that the rendering speed on the DX50 isn't\nas fast as A4000. However, he was also told that they are switching\nfrom Microsoft C++ to Watcom to gain more speed. For people who is\nlooking for a powerful 3D animation software for PC. The wait\nshouldn't be too long. Real 3D 2.0 is absolutely the most powerful and\nflexible 3D package out there that sells for less than $1000.", "Yeah, that about sums it up...\n\nlooking for a place that sells diffraction grating goggles in quantity...", " We publish plenty kiddo,you just have to look.\n -----------------------------------------------------------------\n .sig files are like strings ... every yo-yo's got one.", "I heard that MAGIC has been transported to the Macintosh environment. Does\nanybody know where I can get a hold of this? Thanks in advance for any\nresponses.", ": .\n: .\n: >I have a friend who connects to the mainframe and unix machines here\n: >using [Procomm Plus for Windows], but the screen seems to have a problem \n: >keeping up with the\n: >modem....he has a 14,400 modem on a 486 50 Mhz machine.\n\n: Tell him he probably needs to upgrade to a faster video card! My 9600 baud\n: modem was one of the reasons I sought out the Diamond Speedstar 24X. I get\n: about 7 million WinMarks on my 386-25 and it just about keeps up with the\n: modem speed (using procomm plus for windows, too). He should get over\n: 10 million on his machine with the same card. Anything 10+ should yield\n: acceptable speed...\n\nI'm using PC Plus at home on my trusty old NEC 386 SX/20 with a 14,400\nbaud modem with no problems at all. I am, however, running only\nstraight 16 color VGA.\n\n--", "Ok I want to get a color Mac I don't care if it is an LC or a Mac II or\nwhat but I want to go to a color machine. I'd prefer to trade my\npresent Mac SE system plus some cash or other equipment for the color\nsystem as right now I'm not full of the $$$ to buy a color system\noutright.\nHere's what my Mac SE system has...\n\nMac SE 4/20 with internal 800K drive\n20 Meg external\nExternal 800K drive\nImageWriter II with 4 color ribbon\n\nStuff that can go with it......\nI've got 3 modems and I'd be willing to give 1 of the 9600's and the\n2400 with the system\n\nMultiTech Multimodem II (9600 data/fax)\nU.S. Robotics Sportster (9600 data)\nMicrocom QX/12K (normally will connect at only 2400 as highest\nbut it will do faster if connected to another Microcom)\n\nThe USR and the MultiTech are both brand-new\n\nIf interested send me e-mail at dleonard@wixer.bga.com\n\n", "We've developed a number of applications using DevGuide and found it to \nbe a very useful tool. I've been impressed with the level of integration it\naffords using the connection editor. I love the general ease of use.\n \n I talked with Tali Aben at Sun today about DevGuide + Motif. She was very\nhelpful. We provided some input as to what we'd like to see in the next\nversion of DevGuide. Tali was very enthusiatic about our comments. I mentioned\nI was going to post this email message and she offered to receive additional\ncomments from the net on what DevGuide should evolve into. \n \n Send your comments/wish-list, raving, et. al. about DevGuide to:\n\n Tali.Aben@Sun.COM\n\n\n Pretty cool example of a company that cares what we want.... More of this\nand computers may have a future.\n\n Frankly, I like the idea that it will offer some migration capability\nto DOE/DOMF through an integrated ToolTalk capability, pointed out in March's \nSunExpert magazine. ", "\nTry ImageMagick. I cannot test it but one told me it does 24bit.\nAnyway, are you SURE your Xserver supports 24bit TrueColor visuals ?\nCheck with xdpyinfo !\n", "\n\t...\n\n\tAgain, not true. The characters in a TT or Type 1 font depend on the \n\tmaker. If someone converts a Type 1 font to TT they'll only get the\n\tcharacters in the font of orgin. TT allows for much more flexibility\n\tin this area as well. You can have thousands of glyphs in a TT font\n\tfile (Mac/PS/Windows/Unicode char set) and use the characters\n\tappropriate for the particular platform you are running the font on.\n\nWell, yes, both Type 1 and TrueType fonts can contain lots of characters.\nAnd in both cases plain text fonts will be reencoded to Windows ANSI\nin Windows, and to Mac standard roman encoding on the Mac. \nNo difference there between T1 and TT! \n\nAnd as for fonts with thousands of glyphs, right know these are a liabiliaty\nrather than a great new thing. Reason is that a font with 3000 characters\nis very large, and if you can only access 224 of them you are paying a heavy\nprice in downloading time and printer storage. (And at the moment there\nis only one program of that uses `partial font downloading')\n\n\tFor instance, all or our fontpack 2 TT fonts have the Mac/Windows\n\tchar set in them. The metrics of the fonts are such that if the font\n\tis brought over to the mac the user will have access to the full mac\n\tchar set. \t\n\nYes and T1 text fonts all have the `ISO Adobe' character set, which is\na superset of Windows ANSI and Macintosh standard roman enocding.\n\nThe question is whether you can get at the glyphs. In Windows, for example,\nyou cannot get at the ligatures `fi' anfd `fl' (both T1 and TT)even though a\nfont may very well have them.\n\nANd, while it is somewhat painful to reencode a Type 1 font and to create a\nnew Windows metric file (PFM) for it, there are utilities out there to allow\nyou do this. How do I reencode a TrueType font? How can I get at the\n`fi' and `fl' ligatures in Windows (or on the Mac)? Are there utilities\nthat make it possible to circumvent the hard-wired Windows ANSI encoding?\n\n\n > Regards, 1001-A East Harmony Road\n > Bob Niland Suite 503\n > Internet: rjn@csn.org Fort Collins CO 80525\n > CompuServe: 71044,2124 (303) 223-5209\n", "An earlier article in this newsgroup made reference to\nWinQVT/Net version 3.4. Realy? Where? I tried archie\nwith no luck. It's probably just a typo.\nBut I sure would like to get one if it's real as I too\nhave a printer problem in WinQVT.\n", "Since I'm not all too keen on this area of hooking them up, I'm \nasking for help. I know better than to hook a 12v, 1a stepper line to \none, unless it can take it; however what about if I've got a 24-60v \nstepper. What sort of curent limmiting circuitry would be involved (a \nsmall schematic would probably be helpfull). \n Also, I've looked into the TIPC2701N by TI, and I was wondering \nif I should use the same suggested (by you replying to this message) \ncurrent limiting circuitry on each of the 7 mosfets in the package as \nthat illustrated in the schematic (which you the replyer would hopefully \nhelp me with).\n \n ... hmm... different request... \n \n Thanks.\n\n \n _________________________________________________\n Inspiration | ___ |\n comes to | \\ o baden@sys6626.bison.mb.ca |\n those who | ( ^ ) baden@inqmind.bison.mb.ca |\n seek the | /-\\ =] Baden de Bari [= |\n unknown. | |\n ------------------------------------------------- \n ", "\n\n\nI guess he is right. Early versions of the RasterOps cards did not either,\nbut they fixed it, and people with problems can get a free ROM upgrade\nfrom RasterOps.\n\n\n\nVery easy. If you boot without the MODE32 control panel, then it will\ndisable (or rather not reinstall) the 32-bit clean patches. So when\nyou run OK you must be in 24-bit adressing mode. Check About this Macintosh\nand see if you havce a 12+MB system.\n\n\nsent seperately.", "\nare LCD displays vulnerable to tempest?\n\n\ni'll second that.\n\njason\n\n", "I would like to know what people's opinions are about the \n\"real world\" differences are between a C650 with and without \na coprocessor...\n\nI don't use anything like Mathamatica, Maple, etc. I don't use\nSpreadsheets (at least no sheets with complicated anything), I\ndon't use 3D CAD apps (although I used to), \n\nI DO: use 3D renderers, EXTENSIVE communications, I run a BBS,\nI write software, I write papers, etc...\n\nBTW, just for kicks, this is what I was told by my local Apple\nRep about upgrading a 68LC040 to a 69RC040 on a C650:\n\"Well, Apple built in an extra socket for the coprocessor chip.\n That way, you just plug in the coprocessor, and it works.\"\nI then heartily laughed and hung up the phone.\n\nthanks,\n\n-nate\n", "Well, my newsreader shows the UUE file as having lots of spaces, which\nmeans it's broken before I even try to download it. Did anyone get it\nto uudecode successfully?\n\nAengus", "I've posted a couple of notes about encountering this problem. Based on some \nsuggestions from:\n\nMark Aitchison, University of Canterbury, New Zealand.\n\tand\nChris A. Larrieu @cs.wm.edu\n\nI think that my problem is a screen saver that also outputs sound (to my \nPC speaker). I'm still looking at some of the other screen savers that I \nuse (with a randomizer), but this one definately caused the loss of several \nminutes over night (but not the date this time). ", ": The PADS*.ZIP files contain subdirectories, and have to be unzipped\n: via \"pkunzip -d\". Then an xcopy /s to three floppies creates the disks\n: needed to do the install.\n\nI'm still not sure how this is supposed to work, since the .ZIP files\ntook up about 2.5Mb, so it must be a tight squeeze on those floppies...\n\nHowever, I managed to install PADS and I'm pretty impressed. I created\na couple of schematics without problem, but whenever I try to \ncreate a PCB layout from one of *my* circuits (rather than the demos)\nit doesn't work. I'm wondering if maybe a file isn't where it should\nbe...\n\nCan anyone who has a printed manual comment on whether the registration\nfee is worth paying?\n\n\nChris\n\n", "Hi, \n\nhas anybody implements an RPC server in the HP Xwindows? In SUN Xview, there\nis a notify_enable_rpc_svc() call that automatically executes the rpc processes\nwhen it detects an incoming request. I wonder if there is a similar function in\nHP X/motif that perform the same function.\n\nany help is appreciated.", "\nMicronics & AMI came out with EISA/VLB motherboards.\nByte Mag tests indicate that VLB is faster for video\nbut EISA is faster for disk ops. So I'll wait for\nGW2K to hopefully start using the Micronics board.\n\n-- ", "I am trying to help a friend of mine get the second serial port on his DTK\nI/O Plus II card working and it does not want to cooperate. The documentation\nis no help at all. As an example, it says 'The serial port can be changed to\nCOM2 from COM1 by moving jumpers.' but does not say what jumpers to move!! :-(\n\nThere are 2 banks of jumpers. The first one is labeled as follows:\nC1\nC2\nS2\nP2\nP1\nG\n\nThe second bank is labeled \"IRQ\" and has the following labels:\n5C\n5S\n4\n3\n3S\n2C\n2S\n\nI have determined that the C1 & C2 jumpers tell it to address the first\nserial port as COM1 or COM2. The P1,P2 jumpers tell it to use the printer\nport as LPT1 or LPT2. I am guessing that the \"G\" enables the game port and\nthe \"S2\" SHOULD enable the second serial port, but I can't get it to work. I\nhave tried numerous setting on the IRQ bank without success. I assume that\nthis bank must tell the card which IRQ's to use for both ports, but I don;t\nknow how. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!\n\nEBD\n-- \nElliot Dierksen \"Is that a real poncho... I mean is that a Mexican poncho or\n is that a Sears poncho? Hmmm... no foolin'...\" -- F. Zappa", "\nBut a disk compare utility (old versus new) will. And Windows 3.1 is\nalso flexible enough at install time that you can copy all the files\nonto your hard disk, which greatly speeds things up and makes them\nless annoying, if you can spare the 7 or so compressed megs.\n\n\nNo, we're not. But we're also not going to promote pandering to\ncorporate paranoia when the real issue is convenience. I don't *like*\ndealing with floppies. Personally, I have no use for changing the\nregistration info, but I see it as a valid need, and one that ought to\nbe solved using a quick little utility rather than a half-hour\nreinstall that's just about guaranteed to mess up your settings in one\nway or another.\n\nSo, while I'm not going to put much time into it myself, here's the\nprocedure for getting on your way to finding the encoded information:\n\n1. Copy all your Windows disks into the directory from which you want\nto install it. I've been using c:\\WINSTALL myself.\n\n2. From there, copy that directory to something like c:\\WINORIG.\n\n3. Install from c:\\winstall.\n\n4. comp the two directories to determine changes. \n i.e., comp *.* \\winorig\\*.* >\\report.txt\n\n5. Look in the report file for the file(s) that change. Assuming\nthey didn't cover themselves covering their own tracks, at least one\nfile should have a difference noted at a particular offset. Locate\nsaid offset in the original directory and see what's there using a hex\neditor, and do the same for the modified one.\n\n6. You're on your own as far as breaking the code goes; I don't\nreally do cryptography. It's probably just an xor key or something; I\nthink MS is more concerned with Joe Schmoe at the office personalizing\nhis copy than with \"real pirates\" who will probably just disassemble\nthe damned thing anyway. This technique should work with just about\nany obnoxious corporate product that tries to write to the original\nfloppies when you install; in some extreme cases you may not be able\nto back the floppies up to hard disk, and will be stuck doing a\ncompare on floppies (Lotus stuff is probably like that).\n\nAs I noted before, if you can afford the space on the hard disk, and\ndon't do much in the way of customization, reinstalling from one\ndirectory to another may be less arduous. Doing some of the stuff\nI've mentioned here may well void your license with Microsoft, as if\nthey'd ever find out. If you aren't careful with the disk editor, you\ncould also mung something important... duh. I guess that's a\ndisclaimer.\n\nHave at it....\n\nRob", "\n\nRead the documentation for the SimpleMenu (4.2.3 Positioning the SimpleMenu).\nThe reference is to the R5 documentation.\n\nI had not done this before but in less than 10 mins I knocked up the following\nWcl application that does what you want using a Command widget. Even if you are\nnot familiar with Wcl the example is so simple it should be pretty obvious what\nis going on. The crucial thing is the use of the XawPositionSimpleMenu and\nMenuPopup actions.\n\n\nAri.wcChildren:\t\tapp\n\n*app.wcCreate:\t\tCommand\n*app.wcPopups:\t\tmenu\n*app.translations:\t#override \\n\\\n\t\t\t: XawPositionSimpleMenu(menu) MenuPopup(menu)\n\n*menu.wcCreate:\t\tSimpleMenu\n*menu.wcChildren:\tone, two, three\n\n*one.wcCreate:\t\tSmeBSB\n\n*two.wcCreate:\t\tSmeBSB\n\n*three.wcCreate:\tSmeBSB\n\n\nJim", "I am, at long last, going to replace my beloved 512ke.\nI am looking at a new LC III and a used IIci. Prices\nhave yet to be worked out, so I'm just thinking right now\nabout their merits and drawbacks.\n\nHere's what I've thought of:\n\nThe IIci has much greater potential for expansion, a la NuBus and\ngreater memory capacity.\n\nThe LC III would be new, under warranty, newer ROMs (is the IIci\n\"32-bit clean\"?), and would have sound input. I also like the\n\"pizza-box\" case.\n\nPerformance-wise, I have read that they are almost identical, the\nLC III being a little slower.\n\nSo, which should I get?", "Hello,\n\tI am looking for a HP28s or HP28sx calculator. If anyone has one they are getting rid of please let me know. reply to jmparkin@mtu.edu\nthanks,\n\tJeremy\n-- \n", "Hi,\nI've got a Multi I/O card (IDE controller + serial/parallel\ninterface) and two floppy drives (5 1/4, 3 1/2) and a\nQuantum ProDrive 80AT connected to it.\nI was able to format the hard disk, but I could not boot from\nit. I can boot from drive A: (which disk drive does not matter)\nbut if I remove the disk from drive A and press the reset switch,\nthe LED of drive A: continues to glow, and the hard disk is\nnot accessed at all.\nI guess this must be a problem of either the Multi I/o card\nor floppy disk drive settings (jumper configuration?)\nDoes someone have any hint what could be the reason for it.\nPlease reply by email to GERTHD@MVS.SAS.COM\nThanks,\nThomas\n+-------------------------------------------------------------------+\n+-------------------------------------------------------------------+\n", "I need to make a power supply that can take input from a \ncigarette lighter in a car (12v dc) and drive 7.5 volts\nat up to 3.0 amps. I know enough to know that a simple\nvoltage divider with two resistors won't do it right. Can\nsuch a thing be made from Radio-Shack-able parts without\ntoo much difficulty?\n\njps\nbf\n\np.s. I've looked for premade things like this at radio shack but\nnone of it seems to go any higher than about 800mA.\n\n", "21 Apr 1993 10:28:02 Gillian E Runcie Writes:\n\n\nDear Gillian\n\nThat is such a wickedly cool idea; why didn't I think of it??? However, here\nin Canada the aerials (antenna) are usually near the driver or passenger areas\nand I would surely be seen......but I'll give it a try anyway.\n\nThanks for the first truely useable piece of information I have heard in a long\ntime (and you are by no means a mere female, as this way at getting back takes\nreal guts to do).", "david@c-cat.UUCP (Dave) write:\nwe are talking about a SCSI-1 device (e.g. HD) on a SCSI-2 Controller.\n\nHere is a rewrite of my Mac & Info sheet SCSI section:\nSCSI: only external device expansion interface common to both Mac and IBM.\n Allows the use of any device: hard drive, printer, scanner, Nubus card \n expansion {Mac Plus only}, some monitors, and CD-ROM. Normal {asynchronous}\n SCSI is 5 Mhz; fast {synchronous} SCSI is 10 Mhz. Difference between these\n modes is mainly in the software drivers.\n Main problem: there are a lot of external devices which are internal \n terminated which causes problems for more then two devises off the SCSI port \n {A SCSI chain is supposed to be terminated ONLY at the begining and end. \n Any other set up causes problems for either Mac or IBM}. \nSCSI-1: 8-bit; 7 devices per SCSI controller. asynchronous {~1.5MB/s ave}\n and synchronous {5MB/s max} transfers. 8-bit SCSI-2 is often mistaken for\n a fast version of SCSI-1 {see SCSI-2 for details}.\nSCSI-2: fully SCSI-1 compliant. SCSI-2 mode - 10 devices per SCSI controller.\n 8-bit SCSI-2 is implimented as a very fast SCSI-1 since it can run using\n SCSI-1 hardware and software drivers which limits it to 7 devices, which\n results in it sometimes being mistakenly consitered part of SCSI-1. 16-bit\n and 32-bit SCSI-2 require different ports, electronics, and SCSI software\n drivers from SCSI-1 {Which makes them more expensive than other SCSI\n interfaces}. 32-bit SCSI seems to run only in synchronous mode, hence term\n 'wide and fast SCSI' Transfer speeds are 4-6MB/s with 10MB/s burst {8-bit},\n 8-12MB/s with 20MB/s burst {16-bit}, and 15-20MB/s with 40MB/s burst\n {32-bit}.\n\n8-bit SCSI-2 is the BIGGEST headache due to the fact that it is the ONLY SCSI-2 \nthat I know of that can pump SCSI-2 speeds through SCSI-1 devices and software\ncontrolers. Its MAIN implimentation is on the Mac though you do see adds\nfor SCSI-2 at 10MB/s maximum throughput for PCs. Since 8-bit SCSI-2 does NOT\nNEED all the hardware {including electonics} and software of 16-bit and 32-bit\nSCSI-2 it is the CHEEPEST of the SCSI-2 interfaces. Just pop out the SCSI-1\nelectornics and pop in 8-bit SCSI-2 electronics. Some people consider\n16-bit where SCSI-2 REALLY starts {I USED to be one of them} but\n4-6MB/s average though put with a theoretical burst of 10MB/s is NOT SCSI-1\nbut is 8-bit SCSI-2.\nRule of thumb: if it is SCSIn and OVER 5MB/s then it is SOME type of SCSI-2.", "where can I buy 1 or 2 of these chips (pref in Australia)?\nWhat is name and address of `UMC'?\n\nDan\n\n--\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nAdrian Blockley ! I may say something profound \nEnvironmental science ! here one day. \nMurdoch University ! \nWestern Australia, 6153 ! \nblockley@essun1.murdoch.edu.au ! \nphone 09-360 2737 !", "\nSome VESA bios's support this mode (0x100). And *any* VGA should be able to\nsupport this (640x480 by 256 colors) since it only requires 256,000 bytes.\nMy 8514/a VESA TSR supports this; it's the only VESA mode by card can support\ndue to 8514/a restrictions. (A WD/Paradise)\n", "Applied Engineering used to sell a 3.5\" disk drive for the Apple IIgs that\nread and wrote 1.6 meg on a HD disk. I wonder if the drive would work on a\nmac, since I'm using my old 3.5\" drive from my IIgs on my IIsi now. Just a\nthought.\n\n+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+\n\n /~~~~~~~\\\n\\_____ |\n | | TTTTTT EEEEE VV VV EEEEE |\n | | TT EE VV VV EE |\n /---/ | TT EEEE VV VV EEEE | Steve Liu |\n\n+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ \n\nNewsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware,comp.sys.mac.software\nSubject: Re: Formatting more than 1440K - Possible???\nSummary: \nExpires: \nReferences: \nDistribution: \nOrganization: Homewood Academic Computing, Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, Md, USA\nKeywords: \n\nApplied Engineering used to sell a 3.5\" disk drive for the Apple IIgs that\nread and wrote 1.6 meg on a HD disk. I wonder if the drive would work on a\nmac, since I'm using my old 3.5\" drive from my IIgs on my IIsi now. Just a\nthought.\n\n+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+\n\n /~~~~~~~\\\n\\_____ |\n | | TTTTTT EEEEE VV VV EEEEE |\n | | TT EE VV VV EE |\n /---/ | TT EEEE VV VV EEEE | Steve Liu |", "The real problem w/ the Stealth from what I've heard is that Diamond won't\ntell anyone how to program their proprietary clock stuff, so X under Linux\nand 386BSD won't run....\n", "I have one thing to say-- why does everyone say that spliting them up is\nsuch a bad thing? I actually like my program launcher and file manager\ndo be seperate.. it make things easier to figure out.. I mean, take a look \nat OS/2's wps... (no flames!).. I personally hate it cause I just\nhave too much trouble figuring out how to do simple things like file copy..\n\nand don't say \"just drag the icon!\".. Cause I hate icons in the first place.\nI have too much trouble telling what all those little push buttons mean.\nI want \"F\"ile \"C\"opy etc.. \n\nalthough I know I'm in the minority.\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nswyatt@brahms.udel.edu !!! no disclaimer...I blame everything on someone else ", "/* posted for a friend -- please reply to him */\n\n++++++++++++++++++++++++ CAR AMPLIFIERS FOR SALE +++++++++++++++++++++++++\n\nI have 3 high-end car amplifiers for sale:\n\n(2) Old-Style Rockford Fosgate 150's. These are great amps, and I've never\n had a minute's trouble with either of them. I've been running them on\n high end for quite some time (front/rear) and have been very pleased\n with them in that setup, but I've also run them on low end before, and\n they perform quite well in that situation as well. I'm trying to sell\n them because I'm considering upgrading to a Rockford 650. I already\n own a Power 300, and I've always liked the way the 650/300 combo worked\n in cars.\n\n I'm asking $200.00 a piece, and list on them when I bought them was\n $375.00. If you're interested in both of them, I'd be willing to come\n down on the price a little bit.\n\n\n(1) Precision Power 2150. This great utility amplifier is rated at 2x150,\n and looks brand new. The shroud is unscratched, and it works great.\n This is a great low-end amp because of it's high-power rating into\n 2 channels, however, I've also had it running front or back high end\n before where it did very well.\n\n I'm asking $425.00 for this amp, but feel free to make me an offer on\n it.\n\n\n**** Please direct questions/replies to hacker@krusty.gtri.gatech.edu ****\n\n==============================================================================\n== Chase Hacker \"Fortune presents gifts not ==\n== chase@cc.gatech.edu according to the book. DCD ==\n== gt0658a@prism.gatech.edu ==\n== hacker@krusty.gtri.gatech.edu ==\n==============================================================================\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\nMike Goldsman __o o__ o__ o__ o__ \n36004 Ga Tech Station _ \\<,_ _.>/ _ _.>/ _ _.>/ _ _.>/ _ \nAtlanta, Georgia 30332 (_)/ (_) (_) \\(_) (_) \\(_) (_) \\(_) (_) \\(_)", "\n\n\nThis image is copyrighted. Early in another news group it was being\nused as a texture map in a planet orbiting simulation. That program\nwas being freely distributed but the texture map picture for the \nearth had to be pulled because of copyright infringement issues. \n\nmp....\n", "I remember seeing complete instructions for making PhoneNET adapters, \nMIDI adapters and a MacRecorder lookalike. After a short search through\nMac.archive and info-mac I failed to see any of the above. Any pointers?", "\n\nThis isn't at all too high of a price. Keep in mind that you get *8* meg of \nram, a *local bus* IDE *and* SVGA card, a *250* mb hd, and a *15\"* \nmonitor. The local bus IDE and SVGA really kick butt in Windows. I have \nused a couple of machines with VLB in the past, and all I can do is praise \nGateway.\n\n", "Greetings. I've been seeing the word \"storage\" mentioned\n\taround oscilliscopes but I'm curious, what does it mean?\n\n\tIf my life depended on it, I'd say that it's a scope that\n\tuses long-persistance phosphor to keep the successive\n\ttaces on the screen for some unit of time - \"store\" them.\n\tDo I get to live?\n\n\tAlso, I've been shopping for a decent, used, [old] scope\n\tsince my Tek 514A (portable...NOT!) and my Heathkit O-1000\n\tare all single trace and I need more... like 2 or 3 and at\n\tleast 50MHz (maybe 100...)\n\n\tDuring my shopping at hamfests etc. I've run into the \n\tproblem of \"old scope\" terminology. I can imagine what\n\ta \"mainframe\" and \"plug-in\" are but some things like\n\tthe above \"storage\", \"coax input\" (Hey, where do I get a \n\tprobe that fits this? I had to fiddle with mine for a week \n\tbefore I got anything resembling \"a good trace\" - they all\n\tcome with BNC connectors!), \"unblanking\" (huh?), and, oh,\n\tjust like my 514 manuals, MANY changes were made along the\n\tway to the schematic - scopes, even with IDENTICAL model \n\tnumbers, have different (better?) response/performance than\n\tothers - how can I pick the better one? Does the rule of the\n\thigher SN the better apply?\n\n\tTake care.", "Contact Signaware Corp\n800-4583820\n800 6376564\n\n-------------------------------- Original Memo --------------------------------\nBCC: Vincent Wall From: Imaging Club\nSubject: Signature verification ? Date Sent: 05/04/93\n\nsci.image.processing\nFrom: yyqi@ece.arizona.edu (Yingyong Qi)\nSubject: Signature Image Database\nOrganization: U of Arizona Electrical and Computer Engineering\n\nHi, All:\n\nCould someone tell me if there is a database of handwriting signature\nimages available for evaluating signature verification systems.\n\nThanks.", "\nVery well indeed. At home (a VL Bus version of the Graphics Pro) I can stretch\nan AVI window to 640x480 and it will continue to play back smoothly. It drops\na few more frames but on most machines even attempting such a thing would mean\none frame update every 30 seconds. An ISA Graphics+ was able to do \"Zoom by\n2\" without any perceptible performance penalty. It is the best performance\nI've seen so far with the possible exception of an Intel Indeo board (which\nuses overlay so it doesn't have to move the decompressed data over the ISA\nbus at any point).", "I'm writing a driver that needs to remap some I/O ports. This means\nvirtual mode. Unfortunately virtual mode means it won't get along\nwith expanded memory managers, so I need make it an EMM driver too.\n\nDoes anyone out there have EMM code. Can any point me to an EMM code source?\n\n-Thanks, Morgan", "\nApparently, Microsoft came out with a new product: MS-Braille it is suppose \nto be \"WYTIWIG\". :-)\n\nNo offense.\n ", "I am trying to find out if my application is running on a local or a\nremote display. A local display being connected to the same system\nthat the client is executing on. I have access to the display string\nbut can I tell from the string?\n\nIf the client is executing on host foo then \":0\", \"unix:0\", \"foo:0\",\nand \"localhost:0\" are all local. Under Ultrix, I believe that\n\"local:0\" is also a valid display name (a shared memory connection\nmaybe?). Are there other strings that I should check for? Is there a\nbetter way to detect this?\n\nThank you for any help you can give me.", "I am using WFW 2.0c with a Canon BJ10e. The printer driver is that \nwhich comes with Windows 3.1. Unfortatunately, I am having a problem with \nprinting page numbers on the bottom of the page. I can print page number \non the top of the page, but not on the bottom. Has anybody had a similar \nproblem and/or does anybody have a solution for such a problem.\n\nThanks\npwoodcoc@business.uwo.ca", "I recently acquired an AST Hot Shot 286 accellerator board for an 8088\nsans documentation. \n\nDoes anyone know what the dip switches on the\nback of the card do? \n\nDid it come with software?\n\nAny help or information about the card would be greatly\nappreciated.\n\nThanks,\nRob\n-- \nRobert M. Bultman |\nSpeed Scientific School |\nUniversity of Louisville |\nInternet: rmbult01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu |", "\n\nI have a Maxtor 212MB on an ISA IDE controller, although my machine is\nDX2/66 VLB. I has the save transfer rate of 0.647 MB/s regardless of\nthe variations of the ISA bus speed. I tested it with speed between\n5.5MHz and 8.33MHz. Not _any_ difference. The problem is not the\ninterface between the controller and the memory.\n\nMy advice: Buy 4Megs of RAM, save $70 and enjoy performance.\n\n--\nPenio Penev x7423 (212)327-7423 (w) Internet: penev@venezia.rockefeller.edu", "I have uploaded the Windows On-Line Review shareware edition to\nftp.cica.indiana.edu as /pub/pc/win3/uploads/wolrs7.zip.\n\nIt is an on-line magazine which contains reviews of some shareware\nproducts...I grabbed it from the Windows On-Line BBS.\n\n--", "\nAre you switching high level signals or low level signals like pre-amp\nout level signals? Also, are the clicks you mentioning the big\nclack that happens when it switches or are you refering to contact\nbounce? How are you driving the relays? TTL gate output? Switching\ntransistor? How are the relays connected to what you are driving?", "\n\nWell, some quick math on my part shows that an 8.3MHz bus, 16 bits\nwide, performing a transfer every two clock cycles will provide 8.3M\nbytes/sec. Someone said that it really takes 3 clock cycles to\nperform a transfer, so that reduces the transfer rate to 5.5MB/s,\nwhich is the commonly-used figure for ISA bus speed. However, I\nbelieve a two-clock transfer is possible (0 wait states).", "Hi,\n\n\tI own a IIsi and I'm considering buying a Powerbook. Can\nanyone give me a listing of all the models and tell me what I'm looking for,\ni.e. passive matrix vs. active, memory sizes, upgradeability, internal modems,\ndisk size. If you could provide some prices too that would help. I'm not\ninformed enough on Powerbooks to know how well they operate. \n\tI have been following the posts on some of the problems that have been\nencountered such as the trackball not working in the horizontal.\n\tI would appreciate the list as well as any advice you may have.", "Does ANYONE out there in Net-land have any information on the Cobra 2.20 \ncard? The sticker on the end of the card reads\n Model: Cobra 1-B-1\n Bios: Cobra v2.20\n\nI Havn't been able to find anything about it from anyone! If you have \nany information on how to get a hold of the company which produces the \ncard or know where any drivers are for it, PLEASE let me know!\n\nAs far as I can tell, it's a CGA card that is taking up 2 of my 16-bit \nISA slots but when I enable the test patterns, it displays much more than \nthe usualy 4 CGA colors... At least 16 from what I can count.. Thanks!\n\n .------------------------------------------.\n : Internet: jele@eis.calstate.edu :\n : bbs.mirage@gilligan.tsoft.net :\n : bbs.mirage@tsoft.sf-bay.org :\n : mirage@thetech.com :\n : UUCP : apple.com!tsoft!bbs.mirage :\n `------------------------------------------'", "\nSince the digital transmission schemes include error correction and\nconcealment, the performance remains about the same down to a very low\ncarrier-to-noise ratio, below which it degrades very quickly. Hence,\ndigitally compressed TV is supposed to be less susceptible to interference\nthan amplitude modulated TV.\n", "Are there any vendors supporting pressure sensitive tablet/pen with X? I\nwill appreciate any pointers.\n\nThanks, Sanjay\n", " Yes, eXceed has windows version. Have ported some games like tetris, \nworks fine.\n\nSi c'est vrai, ce serait bien de se le procurer car a ce moment la, le\nportage Xt... Suis-je en train de perdre mon temps avec la toolkit c++\n?", "\nWhile others here may have had better experiences, I, too, share the\nsentiments posted above. Though I have the original Stealth/VRAM,\nit is only \"relatively\" recent that the Windows drivers for this card\nhave evolved to a point of decent performance. Note that there are\nSTILL a couple of modes I cannot use (ie. will not) due to shadowing,\nmis-drawn check boxes, etc. I believe the version I have is 2.01.\nIf there's a more recent release, I'd appreciate if someone would\ndrop me a note to let me know -- I haven't been able to get on their\nBBS lately to check again. Naturally, Diamond doesn't even bother\nnotifying me of fixes/releases.\n\nDiamond was helpful when I finally reached the \"right\" person in curing\nsome of my Windows' problems due to an address conflict. The conflicting\naddresses (2E0, 2E8) were OMITTED in at least my version of the\nDiamond/VRAM manual. I hope it has been corrected by now. The tech rep\nexplained that ALL S3-based boards use these addresses. I have not\nconfirmed the validity of that statement.\n\nWhen I upgrade my motherboard in the near future (hopefully with some\nform of local bus), I'll seek a video solution from someone other than\nDiamond.\n\nLance Hartmann (lance%hartmann.austin.ibm.com@ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com)\n Yes, that IS a '%' (percent sign) in my network address.", "In-reply-to: johnn@eskimo.com's message of 21 Apr 93 23:03:27 GMT\nNewsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware,comp.sys.amiga.hardware,comp.sys.sun.hardware\nSubject: Re: Monitors - Nanao?\nReferences: \nDistribution: \n--text follows this line--\nI have a Nanao 17\" (F560?) on my IPX. I prefer it to my Sun 16\"\ntrinitron at work with all those vertical jitters and the two\nhorizontal shadowmask thingies.\n\nI got it from one of the folks advertising in Computer Shopper et al\nfor $1050 plus about $40 shipping. \n\nI bought a cable which goes from the Sun's 13W3 connector to the\nmonitors 4xRGBS for about $50 from a Macintosh mailorder shop (Relax\nTechnologies).\n\nI'd do it again. Happily.\n", "Hello, I've raytraced and rendered and the only difference I've found \nis that raytracing takes a hell of a lot longer. Am I missing\nsomething?", "B\n)>>>>>>>>> Votre host est mal configure... <<<<<<<<<<<<\n\n\n)Bonjour Sylvain,\n)\tJ'ai travaille avec le hc11 il y a 3 ans et je ne me souviens pas de toutes les possibilites mais je vais quand meme essayer de t'aider.\n\n)\tJe ne crois pas que downloader une programme directement dans le eeprom soit une bonne idee (le eeprom a une duree de vie limitee a 10 000 cycles il me semble). Le communication break down vient peut-etre du fait que le eeprom est long a programmer (1ms par 8 bytes mais c'est a verifier) et que les delais de transfer de programme s19 vers la memoire sont excedes. Normalement, les transferts en RAM du code s19 est plus rapide car le RAM est plus rapide que le eeprom en ecriture.\n\n)\tC'est tout ce que ma memoire me permet de me souvenir!\n\n)Bonne chance,\n\nOh yeah easy for him to say!...\n", "One of our users is having an unusual problem. If she does an Alt/Tab to\na full-screen DOS program, when she goes back to Windows her desktop fonts\nhave changed. If she goes back to a full-screen DOS program and then goes\nback to Windows, the font has changed back to its default font. It's not\na major problem (everything works and the font is legible), but it is\nannoying. Does anyone have any idea why this happens. By the way, she\nhas a DEC 486D2LP machine.\n ", "Hi,\n\nI'm trying to get my program to monitor resize/position events,\nso that when the program exits, I can save the last known geometry in \nsome sort of 'preferences' file.\n\nI am adding an event handler for StructureNotify to the TopLevelShell:\n\n XtAddEventHandler(topLevel,StructureNotifyMask,False,configureCB,myData);\n\nThis works fine, and my callback is called whenever the window is resized\nor repositioned using the window manager (mwm).\n\nHowever, when I'm just resizing the window, using any resize handle on the\nwindow manager resize decoration, the x and y are set to zero in the\nXEvent passed to the event handler callback. I'm accessing the xconfigure\nstructure, like the X11 manual says. (xev->xconfigure.x, xev->xconfigure.y).\nThe width and height memebers are correct.\n\nWhen I reposition the window, using the window manager, the xevent's xconfigure\nstructure contains all the correct x, y, width, height member settings.\n\nQ1: Anybody know why, when just resizing, the x and y are being set to zero?\n\nQ2: Any other way to handle detecting and saving geometry changes?\n\nI've tried using XtGetValues() on the topLevel widget when exiting my\napplication (before destroying any widgets) and all I get is garbage values\nfor the x, y, width, height resources.\n\nThanks\n--", "You can use PBM's 'rawtopgm' to convert three raw (r, g, b) files to pgm format. Then you can use pgm3toppm to convert the pgm files to a composite ppm file,\nand feed this to cjpeg for compression. Slow, and circuitous, but it will\nwork.", "I have also been looking for this, but I have come up with nothing.\nI have looked in ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu which is supposed to have a lot\nof image-specs.\n\nEmail is preferred. If there is enough interest, I will post a \nsummary.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------ ", "\nSpeaking of Psygnosis, they have licensed games to Philips Interative\nMedia International for CD-I.\n\nThe following was recently posted in a message in the CD-I section of\nthe Multimedia Forum.\n\n\"Seventh Guest has been licensed by Virgin Games to Philips Interactive\nMedia International for worldwide CD-I rights. Were also licensed to\nP.I.M.I. Litil Divil from Gremlin Graphics (UK) and Microcosm from\nPsygnosis (UK). Those three titles will be adapted on CD-I using the full\npotential of the FMV cartridge, meaning, using the additional memory as\nwell as the motion video capabilities. Those titles have been negociated\nin Europe but will be available worldwide.\n\nAlso, Lemmings 1 & 2 have been licensed from Psygnosis, as well as Striker\nSoccer from Rage (UK).\"\n\nI don't know when these titles will be available or when work on them even\nstarted (so don't expect your CD-I retailer to have them yet).\n\nThere was also some mention of future Nintendo CD-I games in an issue of the\nUK magazine ERT - Mario Hotel was mentioned as having 75 levels.\n\nMark\n\n[Although I work for Philips, I don't work on CD-I or multimedia. The above\ninfo is just provided in good faith from what I've read and does not\nrepresent any statement from Philips]", "\n\n\tI found the MS defrag looks very much like Norton Speedisk.\nIs it just a strip-down version of the later?\n\n\tI have both Norton Speedisk and Backup, so I was wondering \nif I need to install MS Backup?", "Will there be no chance to get the Author of this _REALLY_ superb program\nto remove the 'institutional' point in his license statement ?\nOr at least to say 'except educational ones' at this ?\n\nI understand that use of this software by either commercial or governmental\nusers should be result in a donation to its creator, but the everytime\nrare on money universities, schools or whatever else institutions should\nnot be restricted.\n\nIf the situation stays as is and the Author explicitely states that\nhe treats universities and schools as institutions in this context,\ni'll have to fallback to xv 2.21 here. Maybe our disk capacity will\nsoon be dead, when every user has a copy of xv-3.00 in his home dir...\n", "I will take $375 for the whole package. Original post follows:\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nArticle: 61358 of misc.forsale\nNewsgroups: misc.forsale,misc.forsale.computers\nFrom: wgs1@Isis.MsState.Edu (Walter G. Seefeld)\nSubject: SyQuest internal 44 drive with 8 cartridges: sale or trade\nSummary: Will trade 350Mb for ~300Mb IDE, or sell for $450\nOrganization: Mississippi State University\nDistribution: na\nDate: Tue, 20 Apr 1993 18:48:06 GMT\n\nThis drive is less than one year old. The cartridges have all been bought\nsince then. All is in excellent condition and still under warranty.\nDue to a change in system use, I now need a large, contiguous drive.\n\nOffer includes:\n\tSyDos 44i internal drive\n\tSCSI adapter card and cables\n\tAll original documentation\n\tSoftware\n\tAll original packaging\n\t8 cartridges totalling over 350Mb (no bad sectors or defects)\n\nThe installation was a breeze on my 386 clone.\n\nI will trade for something near 300Mb IDE, or sell for $450.\nI will also consider trading for 4 4Mx9 30 pin SIMMs at 70ns.\n--\nWalter G. Seefeld | By the dawn's early light,\n940 N. Jackson St. #1A | By all I know is right,\nStarkville, MS 39759 | We're going to reap what we have sown.\nN5QXR | -Jackson Brown \n\n", "I aparantly mistyped the address for the ftp site which holds the images. The\ncorrect address should be:\n\njupiter.csd.unb.ca\n ^^\nrather than jupiter.csd.unb.edu. They are in the directory:\n\n\\pub\\library.info", "Its time for a little house cleaning after my PC upgrade. I have the following\nfor sale:\n\nLeading Technology PC partner (286) sytsem. includes\n\t80286 12mhz intel cpu\n\t85Mb IDE drive (brand new - canabalized from new system)\n\t3.5 and 5.24 floppies\n\t1 Meg ram\n\tvga congroller\n\tkb\n\t5.0 dos on hard drive\nneed to get $300 for system\n\nAT style kb - $20\nLogitech serial trackman with latest drivers $45\n\nAmiga 500 with 2.0 roms installed and 1Mb video ram and 4Mb addon ram\n\t501 clone (512K ram and clock)\n\tRoctec addon disk IDE disk controller includes SCSI option\n\tQuantum 105mb SCSI drive with lots of software\n\t4mb ( 4 x 1mb simm) installed in roctec\n\tAmiga DOS 2.04\n\tICD Flicker Fixer II\nAsking $500 for system, \n\nI will part out the amiga, make an offer!\n\namiga Software\n\tCando\t\t\t\t- $25\n\tTextcraft Plus\t\t\t- $5\n\ttetris & welltris\t\t- $5 for both\n\tSword of Sodam\t\t\t- $5\n\tQix\t\t\t\t- $5\n\tCarmen Sandiego\t\t\t- $5\n\tCrossword Construction Kit\t- $10\n\n\tCanadian Prototype Replicas\n\tCD rom Fast File System\t\t- $30\n\n\tHypermedia CD rom containing fred fish disks 1-480\n\tincludes registration card, low cost upgrades.\t$20\n\n\tAmiga hardware Reference Man\t- $5\n\tAmiga to vga monitor cable\t- $5\n\ttwo joysticks\t\t\t- $5 each\n\t\n\nPrices DO NOT include shipping.\n\nContact Rich Garrett\nEmail - richg@sequent.com\nHOME (503) 591-5466\tWORK (503) 578-3822", "\n: Can anyone tell me where to find a MPEG viewer (either DOS or\n: Windows).\n\n: Thanks in advance.\n\n: -- \n: Alan M. Jackson Mail : ajackson@cch.cov.ac.uk\n\n: Liverpool Football Club - Simply The Best\n: \"You'll Never Walk Alone\"\n\nYou can find a Windows MPEG viewer at wuarchive.wustl.edu in the\nmirrors/msdos/windows3 directory.\n\n-- ", "Hi netters!\n\tI often have troubles with my PC and would like to fix it by myself. Is \n\tthere any book that show you how to fix your own PC (hardware, monitor,\n\tprinter problems..etc). Of course, no book would tell you the exact\n\tproblem with your PC, but at least it will give a general idea what\n\tmight be wrong. Thanks so lot for your help.\n", "I am writing a custom widget to support the display of graphics\nand imagery. The user of the widget will be able to specify,\nwhen creating it, whether it is to operate in X or GL mode.\n\nI have set up translations and actions to handle mouse button\npresses. They work fine when the widget is in X mode. In GL \nmode they only work when the widget (my GL/X widget) is a child\nof a manager. Put another way, the translations do not work \nwhen the widget is configured in GL mode and is a child of a \nshell. Does anyone know why this is happening?", "I am interested in finding a supplier for an array of leds on material which is\ntransparent when nothing is lit.\n\nI'm not quite sure what LCD screens are like away from the laptop but I would \nguess they are not too clear.\n\nAn ideal item would be an LED array for which each LED is about 1/2\" square. \n(Yes very course) This is for distance viewing, but on a window.\n\nAny pointers of suggestions would be much appreciated.\n\n-Mark Battisti\nmbattist@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu", "Hi there,\n\nDoes anyone know whether the PUFF RF design package is available\nvia ftp from any site? As I understand it, it is in the public\ndomain - please correct me if I'm wrong on this one.\n\nAny other PD RF design tools out there that can be recommended?\nEspecially microstrip filter tools...\n\n73's\nLehane\n", "Hi,\n\n I recently bought an Orchid Fahrenheit 1280+. It's a real nice card,\nbut I'm having very big problems with it.\n\n The basic problem is that vertical lines are missing from the display\nin windows. Something like every other line or so.\nAlso, when I use a DOS gif viewer, namely vpic 6.0c, in Fahrenheit 1280\nmode, vertical lines are swapped. It's very strange looking.\nIf it uses VESA standards, however, it works great! only it thinks there's\nonly 512K on the card. (There's 1MB on there).\n\n I have contacted Orchid support, and they tried to be helpful, but didn't\nhave the answer. I don't think the card is the problem, since it works great\non my friend's computer.\n\n Here is my setup:\nFahrenheit 1280+, 1MB, bios 1.1\n386-25, Opti-chipset2, AMI bios 1990, 5MB ram.\nMaxtor 120MB harddrive, (slave)\nMaxtor 40Mb harddrive (master)\nPanasonic c1381 monitor,\nversion 4.6 windows drivers.\nwindows 3.1\nI tried taking all memory managers, etc off, and took all other cards\n(besides disk controller) off.\n\n My friend's setup is 386sx-16, shamrock monitor.\n\nIf anyone has seen anything like this, or can otherwise help, I will be very\ngreatful.\n\nPlease send e-mail to tdarugar@tartarus.ucsd.edu or\n\t\t\ttdarugar@ebon.ucsd.edu", "Please help if you can with the following strange problem:\n\n The Maxtor 340 drive in my 386 clone would from time to\n time, for no obvious reason spin down completely (one can\n tell by the sound) and simply refuse to be accessed. DOS\n reacts with an error (Drive D: cannot be accessed or\n something the like). Unfortunately, I cannot just reproduce\n the error. Sometimes it occurs more often, sometimes\n less. The last time it happened was when I wanted to \n demonstrate some software to a colleague.\n I would like to know if anybody has experienced similar\n problems. I don't like to take the thing to the dealer\n only to be told that there's nothing wrong with it. I\n checked the other post in this group about Maxtor, and\n I don't seem to be the only one who has problems. However,\n no one describes the same problem, and I also have a \n different configuration.\n\n Thanx in advance for any e-mailed help. \n \n Peter\n\nLIST OF EQUIPMENT\n Computer \"Mandax\" Mainboard 386-33, 2MB\n Adaptec 1542 SCSI Master\n Maxtor LXT340S SCSI-II Hard Drive\n NEC CDR-83 CD-ROM Reader (problem remains with CD-ROM removed)\n ET4000 VGA Card\n\nCONFIG.SYS\n files=30\n device=C:\\dos\\setver.exe\n device=C:\\windows\\himem.sys\n device=C:\\system\\aspi4dos.sys\n device=C:\\system\\aswcdnec.sys /d:neccd\n DOS=HIGH\n COUNTRY=041,,C:\\dos\\country.sys\n device=C:\\dos\\display.sys CON=(EGA,,1)\n\nAUTOEXE.BAT\n C:\\windows\\smartdrive.sys\n PATH=C:\\windows;c:\\dos\n SET TEMP=C:\\dos\n MODE CON CODEPAGE PREPARE=((437) C:\\DOS\\EGA.CPI)\n MODE CON CODEPAGE SELECT=437\n KEYB SG,,C:\\DOS\\KEYBOARD.SYS\n C:\\SYSTEM\\MSCDEX /D:NECCD /L:d /v\n", "I have 2 foot switches for sale. They're great for guitar\namps, and keyboards. Each is about 1\" in diameter with a 6' (or so)\ncable. I'd like $15 for both, but make me an offer, who knows...\n\n-Jason", "I got a ET4000/W32 card which is made by Cardex yesterday\nand ran a winmark test on it. The card is a VL-BUS card which\ncan display 16.7 million colours in 640x480 mode with 1MB DRAM.\n\nIt comes with ET4000/W32 window drivers and a normal Et4000 drivers.\nThe ET4000/W32 drivers handles, 640x480, 800x600, 1024x786 in 256 colours.\nAlso, in 640x480 and 800x600, it supports hicolor, 32K and 64K colours.\n\nHere is my winmark result running on a 16MB 486DX33 EISA/VL-BUS system using\nHint chipsets.\n\nWinmark 3.11 from ZD lab.\n\nUsing ET4000/W32 drivers\n640x480 256 10.63 megapixel/sec.\n 32k 7.34 \n 64k 7.30\n800x600 256 10.07\n 32k 6.38\n 64k 6.35\n1kx786 256 8.17\n\nUsing ET4000 drivers.\n640x480 16M 1.78\n800x600 16colours 4.01 \n1kx786 16 4.22\n\nFrom the result, the ET4000/W32 drivers are specialized to use the\nhardware feature of the Et4000/W32 chip whereas the ET4000 drivers are\njust normal driver for ET4000 based graphics card.\n\nThe price of this graphics card that I got is $185 from a local dealer.\nIt may be less from mail order. It has OS/2 2.0 drivers comes with it\nwhich supports 256 colors on all resolution.\n\nFrom these results, it has double the performance of a Et4000AX based card\nin 256 colours mode.\n", "\n\nNo. The simple $25 style IDE controller does not use DMA. The CPU performs\nthe data transfer with a string move instruction. This requires that the\nCPU stop what it had been doing and transfer the data. Only the smart drive\ncontrollers, be they IDE or SCSI, can transfer via DMA. These controllers\ntend to cost the same wether they are IDE or SCSI. To get the DMA benefits,\nIDE must sacrifice it's price advantage *on the controller*.\n\n\n\nFloppies aren't on the IDE bus, your arguement makes no sense, this isn't\nan IDE issue. The floppys have their own processor on their controller\nboard which handles all of these commands.\n\nThe difference between IDE and SCSI is that all SCSI peripherials are\nintelligent. They each have their own controller. They depend on the\nCPU to do fewer things for them, i.e. IDE drives needing a processor\nto transfer their data.\n\n\n\n\nThe dettach/callback mechanism alows the CPU to make requests of the \ndevices on the SCSI bus and then dettach and go about its business.\nLater, when the device is done, it issues a callback to say that the\ndata has arrived or the function has completed. Most SCSI cards will\nalso DMA the data into memory without the interupting the CPU, therefore\nallowing it to continue working uninterupted. IDE supports no such concept\nas dettach/callback. \n\nCan you see how this would be a win in any multitasking system?\n\n--David Willmore\n\n-- \n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\nwillmore@iastate.edu | \"Death before dishonor\" | \"Better dead than greek\" | \nDavid Willmore | \"Ever noticed how much they look like orchids? Lovely!\" | ", "Hi: I'd like to know how much the foll. equipment will fetch in the used\nequipment market (without manuals or other accessories):\n\t1. Tektronix 2465 scope\n\t2. Tektronix 2465A scope\n\t3. Tektronix 1240 logic analyser", "\n\n Here's a document that I wrote some time back. It's slightly\nout-of-date, now that DOS 6 has been released, but much of it is still\nuseful.\n\n -- Darryl Okahata\n\tInternet: darrylo@sr.hp.com\n\nDISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not\nconstitute the support, opinion or policy of Hewlett-Packard or of the\nlittle green men that have been following him all day.\n\n===============================================================================\n$Id: adaptec.txt 1.8 1993/01/25 00:55:08 darrylo Rel darrylo $\n Hints and Tips for the Adaptec 1540/1542 SCSI adapter\n\n\n This document contains hints and tips for getting the Adaptec\n1540/1542 SCSI adapter to work with various hardware and software\npackages. They are based upon my experiences with an Adaptec 1542A\ncontroller, and will, hopefully, help others. However, note that I\ncannot guarantee that the following will really help you (it works for\nme), and the information in this document could possibly cause you to\nlose some or all of your files on your hard disk.\n\n IMPORTANT! BACK UP THE ENTIRE CONTENTS OF YOUR HARD DISK BEFORE\nTRYING ANYTHING BASED UPON INFORMATION IN THIS DOCUMENT.\n\n Copyright 1993, by Darryl Okahata. This document may be freely\ncopied for personal use only, and may not be reprinted in a for-profit\npublication without the consent of the author. Please note that I have\nno connection with Adaptec other than as a customer.\n\nTopics covered in this document:\n\n\t* Windows 3.1 enhanced mode\n\t* Floppy-controller-based tape backup devices\n\t* Sound cards\n\t* Miscellaneous info\n\n Please note that parts of this document contain technical, and\nsometimes terse, descriptions of problems.\n\nFor reference:\n\n\tAdaptec technical support:\t(800) 959-7274\n\tAdaptec BBS (2400/9600):\t(408) 945-7727\n\nPlease send comments, corrections, etc. via email to me:\n\n\tCompuServe:\t75206,3074\n\tInternet:\tdarrylo@sr.hp.com\n\n\n***** Windows 3.1 enhanced mode:\n\n The Windows 3.1 install program should automatically configure DOS\nand Windows for use with the Adaptec 1542. However, just in case\nsomething went wrong, I'm going to describe some of the changes needed\nto get Windows 3.1 working with the 1542. Also, you may have noticed\nthat installing Windows 3.1 makes your PC run much slower, even when\nyou're not running Windows; methods of speeding it up are discussed in\nthe section called, \"Windows 3.1 runs slowly\".\n\n\n* MSDOS configuration:\n\n The Windows install program adds the SmartDrive disk cache to your\nCONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT files. If you follow the instructions,\nyou'll notice that you'll need to use double-buffering with SmartDrive\n(this is the default setup). You'll also notice that your system runs\nmuch, much slower -- in both Windows *AND* MSDOS. See the section\ncalled, \"Windows 3.1 runs slowly\", for some ways of speeding your system\nup.\n\n\n* Windows configuration:\n\n To get the Adaptec 1542 to work with Windows, make sure that the\n\"[388Enh]\" section of the SYSTEM.INI file contains the entry:\n\n\tVirtualHDIRQ=Off\n\nI believe that the Windows install program automatically adds this entry\nto SYSTEM.INI, but I'm not sure. If this doesn't work for you, you\nmight want to try adding some more lines:\n\n\tVirtualHDIRQ=Off\n\tSystemROMBreakPoint=false\n\tEMMExclude=A000-CFFF\n\n(You probably don't need the above lines, though.) The\n\"SystemROMBreakPoint\" entry is used to enable support for memory\nmanagers like QEMM/386MAX (only needed if you use such programs).\n\n\n* Windows 3.1 runs slowly:\n\n Once you do get Windows 3.1 running with the 1542, chances are that\nyour system is running much slower than before. If it's not, it's\nprobably because:\n\n 1. You happen to be using ASPI4DOS.SYS version 3.1 in your\n\tCONFIG.SYS file. Congratulations -- this appears to be a\n\twinning solution.\n\n 2. You are very lucky. Whether your luck will hold out remains to\n\tbe seen ....\n\nIf your system is running much slower than before, this is almost\ndefinitely caused by Smartdrive with double-buffering. According to the\nWindows documentation, and the Microsoft technical note #Q81808\n(\"SMARTDrive Double Buffering Required with ASPI4DOS.SYS\"), you must use\nSmartdrive with double-buffering enabled. While this works, it really\nslows down your PC; I once estimated that this slowed my PC down by a\nfactor of 5 (FIVE). As I consider this unacceptable, I looked for other\nsolutions.\n\n Unfortunately, you cannot just disable double-buffering. If you\ndo, Windows 3.1 in enhanced mode will not work, and you might even\ndestroy the contents of your hard disk by trying to run Windows 3.1.\nWhat you can do is one of the following:\n\n 1. Use other drivers that provide double-buffering. It is my\n\topinion that the unbelievable slowness in Smartdrive is caused\n\teither by horribly inefficient double-buffering, or by a bug in\n\tSmartdrive.\n\n 2. Use a driver that provides \"VDS\" services (\"VDS\" stands for\n\t\"Virtual DMA Services\"). This is a standard, which is supported\n\tby Windows 3.1, that allows bus-mastering disk controllers (like\n\tthe 1542) to work with Windows.\n\n After trashing my hard disk countless times, I found the following\nsolutions, none of which require using Smartdrive (note, however, that I\nam now getting occasional parity errors, which are probably *NOT* caused\nby these solutions, but might be -- see below). While the following\ndoes not require Smartdrive, using some kind of disk cache utility is\nstrongly recommended, as this makes Windows run much, much faster:\n\n1. If you do not have the ASPI4DOS.SYS driver, or you do not need ASPI\n functions (for controlling a CDROM, tape drive, more than two\n physical hard disks, etc.), you can add the SCSIHA.SYS driver to your\n CONFIG.SYS file, e.g.:\n\n\tDRIVER=c:\\SCSIHA.SYS /V386\n\n (Windows needs the \"/V386\" option.) This driver MUST be loaded into\n LOW memory (it cannot be loaded into high memory), and it occupies\n about 16-20K. As of November 1992, the SCSIHA.SYS driver could be\n obtained from the Adaptec BBS at (408)-945-7727 (hopefully, it's\n still there).\n\n2. If you need ASPI functions and have the ASPI4DOS.SYS driver, version\n 3.0 or 3.0a, you can use both the ASPI4DOS.SYS and SCSIHA.SYS drivers\n in your CONFIG.SYS file, e.g.:\n\n\tDRIVER=c:\\ASPI4DOS.SYS\n\tDRIVER=c:\\SCSIHA.SYS /V386\n\n Amazingly enough, the SCSIHA.SYS driver can also be loaded high\n (assuming you have DOS 5.0); I would have thought that this would\n crash my system, but it doesn't. I asked Adaptec's technical support\n about this, and they said that loading SCSIHA.SYS high should be fine\n as long as ASPI4DOS.SYS is loaded LOW.\n\n On my system, NOT using SCSIHA.SYS with ASPI4DOS 3.0a would\n occasionally cause Windows 3.1 to crash upon restarting or exiting\n Windows, with the additional result of a corrupted disk (some of my\n C:\\WINDOWS\\*.GRP files would be corrupted). For me, these crashes\n usually occurred while making a different program from PROGMAN.EXE\n the default Windows shell, and vice-versa. This is the reason\n SCSIHA.SYS may be necessary.\n\n I have absolutely no idea if SCSIHA.SYS is necessary with versions of\n ASPI4DOS earlier than 3.0.\n\n Note that many people can use ASPI4DOS 3.0 or 3.0a without\n SCSIHA.SYS; they do not seem to have any problems at all. I consider\n these people lucky. Others, like me, have had all sorts of problems.\n\n3. In my opinion, the best, but not necessarily the easiest, solution is\n to upgrade to ASPI4DOS 3.1. The SCSIHA.SYS driver is no longer\n needed. Unfortunately, while you could get previous ASPI4DOS\n upgrades from the Adaptec BBS, the ASPI4DOS 3.1 driver is not\n available from the Adaptec BBS. As far as I know, there are only\n three ways to get a copy:\n\n * You can buy the new (as of November 1992) Adaptec EZ SCSI driver\n\tkit, which supposedly includes ASPI4DOS 3.1 as well as other\n\tdrivers, such as CDROM drivers. I believe the list price is\n\taround $75.\n\n * If you already have a copy of an older version of ASPI4DOS, you\n\tcan supposedly contact Adaptec to upgrade it to EZ SCSI for\n\taround $30.\n\n * A copy of ASPI4DOS 3.1 is included in Central Point PC Tools 8.0\n\tfor MSDOS. Note that the documentation and driver are stored in\n\tdifferent directories. Note further that only ASPI4DOS is\n\tincluded; the CDROM drivers and drivers to support more than two\n\thard disks are not included. This is where I obtained my copy\n\tof ASPI4DOS 3.1.\n\nNote, however, that I am now getting occasional parity errors with\nWindows. In all probability, defective hardware in my PC is causing\nthis, as I upgraded my motherboard just after I found the above\nsolutions. However, because these parity errors occur only during disk\naccesses, there is a very small, but definite, possibility that the\nparity errors are driver-related (for example, changing the bus on/off\ntiming for certain disk transfers might cause this). I've run various\nmemory tests for hours at a time, and these tests have found no\nproblems. This problem is probably caused by memory with marginal\ntiming requirements, which cause parity errors during disk transfers\n(this is why the memory tests didn't find any problems -- the problems\nshow up only under disk I/O). However, I'm mentioning this just in case\nit isn't a hardware problem.\n\n\n***** Floppy-controller-based tape backup devices:\n\n There are two possible problems with using the Adaptec 1542 with a\nfloppy-controller-based tape backup device, such as the Colorado Memory\nSystems Jumbo 250:\n\n1. Tape backups/restores can take a very long time. The tape drive\n constantly starts, stops, starts, stops, etc.\n\n2. Tape operations may be erratic, or encounter too many tape errors.\n (This problem might be caused by defective hardware on my 1542.\n However, I've heard of other people having similar problems, and so\n I'm mentioning this just in case it is not a hardware problem on my\n 1542.)\n\n\n* Tape backups/restores take a long time:\n\n If you have a floppy-controller-based tape backup device, you may\nhave to adjust the Adaptec 1540/1542 \"bus on/off timing\" for best\nresults when using the tape drive. Normally, while doing a tape backup\nor restore, the tape drive motor should be continuously running, with\nonly an occasional pause. However, the default bus timing on the\nAdaptec 1540/1542 may cause the tape drive motor to start and stop,\nstart and stop, every few seconds. This causes needless wear to the\ntape and tape drive (however, note that a dirty tape head or a defective\ntape drive can also cause this -- make sure your tape heads are clean).\nThis also causes the tape backup or restore to take much, much longer\nthan necessary.\n\n The problem here is that these tape backups use the floppy DMA to\ntransfer data in memory to/from the tape drive, and the Adaptec uses DMA\nto transfer data in memory to/from the hard disk. The floppy DMA needs\nto feed data to the tape drive at a certain rate; if the tape drive is\nnot fed data quickly enough by the floppy DMA, the tape drive stops,\nrewinds a bit, and restarts (once enough data is eventually fed to it).\nThe default bus timing on the Adaptec (which is really DMA timing) is\n\"too large\". For example, when a backup is done, data has to be\ntransferred from a hard disk to memory, and then from memory to the\ntape. Because the default timing on the Adaptec \"hogs\" the memory too\nmuch (too much time is spent transferring data from a hard disk to\nmemory), not enough time is spent transferring data from memory to the\ntape drive. As a result, the tape drive constantly starts and stops,\nbecause data is not fed to it quickly enough.\n\n The solution is to change the Adaptec's bus on/off timing. The\ndefault factory setting is 11 microseconds on, and 5 microseconds off.\nThe \"bus on\" timing needs to be lowered to 2-4 microseconds. This can\nbe done in one of two ways:\n\n* If you have ASPI4DOS, you can use the \"/n\" option. For example, I use\n a \"bus on\" timing of 4 microseconds, which means that I use the\n following line in my CONFIG.SYS file:\n\n\tDEVICE=c:\\aspi4dos.sys /n4\n\n Note that there is NO space between the \"/n\" and the \"4\".\n\n* If you don't have ASPI4DOS, your only recourse is to try to find a\n program called \"SETSCSI.EXE\", which is very difficult to find. The\n reason is that Adaptec, for reasons of their own, does not seem to\n want this widely distributed. I once asked someone who worked for\n Adaptec, and they asked me to not upload it anywhere. If you have\n anonymous ftp access to the Internet, you could try using archie to\n hunt down a copy; I believe that there are a couple of sites that have\n it. If you do find a copy, you run it like so:\n\n\tsetscsi -n:4\n\n This adjusts the \"bus on\" timing to 4 microseconds. Running\n SETSCSI.EXE without any arguments resets the bus timing back to the\n factory defaults.\n\n Note that it seems that you cannot use SETSCSI.EXE if you use\n ASPI4DOS; SETSCSI.EXE crashed my system if ASPI4DOS was loaded. I\n could use SETSCSI.EXE with SCSIHA.SYS, however.\n\nDo not lower the \"bus on\" timing below 2 microseconds, or increase it\nabove 11 microseconds. If you lower it too low, the hard disk\nthroughput will suddenly drop; your system will feel slower. For me, 4\nmicroseconds works fine. This value may work fine for you, or you may\nhave to adjust it downwards a little.\n\n Once you've lowered the \"bus on\" timing, tape backups and restores\nshould run faster.\n\n Also, do not experiment with the bus on/off times (with the other\noptions that I have intentionally not described), unless you know what\nyou are doing. Bad combinations can cause parity errors and worse, by\nstarving memory refresh.\n\n A program called BUSTIFIX.EXE exists on the Adaptec BBS. Unless\nthis has been upgraded since I last checked (which has been a while),\nthis is a self-extracting archive containing a batch file and a couple\nof other files. This batch file was supposed to allow one to set the\nbus on/off times for the 1540/1542 and others. However, when I tried\nrunning this program with my 1542A, my system crashed. At the time, I\nwas running SCSIHA.SYS, and I didn't check to see if there was a\nconflict with it. Maybe this old program works only with the 1542B,\nalthough the docs say that it works with the 1542A?\n\n\n* Erratic tape operations or too many tape errors:\n\n This \"problem\" may or may not exist. Although it existed on my\nsystem, a hardware problem just on my particular 1542 could cause it.\nHowever, I've heard of other people having similar problems, and so I'm\nmentioning this just in case it isn't a hardware problem just on my\n1542.\n\n Symptoms of this \"problem\", which persists even after cleaning the\ntape head:\n\n1. Backing up to tape encounters \"unusable sector detected\" errors,\n resulting in an aborted tape backup.\n\n2. Tape backup works, but the tape compare fails.\n\n3. The tape drive starts, stops, starts, stops, etc. much too often.\n Unlike the above-mentioned problem (\"Tape backups/restores take a\n long time\"), where the tape drive starts and stops every few seconds,\n this kind of starting/stopping occurs every few 10-20 seconds or so.\n\n4. Fastback Plus 3.1 does not find/see any tape backup devices. Other\n programs, like Central Point Backup and the CMS Jumbo software\n (assuming that you have a CMS Jumbo 250 tape drive) can find/see the\n tape drive, but Fastback Plus 3.1 cannot.\n\n5. Too many tape read errors.\n\n Although I do not know what is causing this problem, I discovered\nthat using a different floppy controller solves it. A few months ago, I\nupgraded my motherboard, which contained an integrated floppy\ncontroller. As I already had a floppy controller on the 1542, I\ninitially disabled the motherboard floppy controller. After a while, I\ndecided to try disabling the 1542 floppy controller and using the one on\nthe motherboard. When I did this, the tape drive (a CMS Jumbo 250)\nreliability increased dramatically, and Fastback Plus 3.1 was suddenly\nable to find and use the tape drive.\n\n I don't know if this was caused by a hardware problem on my 1542.\nOn the one hand, the floppy drives worked great when they were attached\nto the 1542, which seems to say that there was nothing wrong with the\n1542. On the other hand, the tape drive didn't work well attached to\nthe 1542 floppy controller, but it did work when attached to a different\ncontroller; this could be an indication of a hardware problem on my\n1542. I did change floppy drive cables, and so it is conceivable that\nthe problem was in the cables. I don't know what the cause really is;\nhowever, if you're having similar problems, you might want to consider\ntrying a new floppy controller.\n\n\n***** Sound cards:\n\n Many popular sound cards can play or record digitized sound, and\nthis is typically done using DMA. Like the tape drive DMA, the\nAdaptec's DMA can conflict with the sound card DMA. Unlike that of the\ntape DMA, this \"conflict\" usually manifests itself as a parity error\n(your system crashes with a parity error message). What happens is\nthat, data is being transferred so quickly by the sound card and the\nAdaptec, memory refresh cannot occur quickly enough, which causes a\nparity error. Usually, getting a parity error means that there is a\nhardware problem with your system; in this case, however, the parity\nerror is not a symptom of bad hardware.\n\n I've found that such parity errors typically occur while recording\ndigitized sound, and the chances of such errors increase as you increase\nthe recording fidelity (e.g., higher sampling rate, recording in stereo,\nrecording using 16-bits instead of 8, etc.).\n\n Like the tape drive solution, the solution here is to lower the\nAdaptec's \"bus on\" timing. See the section on tape drives for\ninformation on how this is done. Note, however, that this may or may\nnot solve the problem; it may only reduce the probability of a parity\nerror. The software used to record digitized sound can greatly affect\nthis problem (i.e., some software is inefficient). Disk caches, the\nspeed of your hard disk, and the amount of disk fragmentation can also\naffect this.\n\n\n***** Miscellaneous info:\n\n This section contains miscellaneous hints, tips, and rumors. Much\nof it is merely information that I've heard or read about, and have not\nverified. I believe that the following information is correct, but I'm\nnot sure. Use it at your own risk.\n\n* With QEMM 6.00, 6.01, and 6.02, you need to specify the \"DB=\"\n parameter (e.g., \"DB=2\"), unless you are using the ASPI4DOS driver.\n If you don't, QEMM will crash/hang at bootup. Although the QEMM\n manual mentions this, the install program does not seem to detect that\n a 1542 is present and automatically add this option to the QEMM\n command line (at least, this occurred with the QEMM 6.00 install\n program -- I haven't tested any other version). Earlier versions of\n QEMM probably need this parameter, but I'm not sure (I've never used a\n version earlier than 6.00).\n\n If you use ASPI4DOS, you do not need to give QEMM the \"DB=\" parameter.\n\n* Some or all versions of the 1542 do not support hard disks over one\n gigabyte in size. To support hard disks with capacities over 1GB, you\n need to get a new ROM BIOS from Adaptec. I'm not sure if this is\n still true of the latest 1542Bs being sold by Adaptec.\n\n* To connect a CDROM drive to the 1542, you need a SCSI CDROM drive and\n some drivers. Note that some CDROM drives have proprietary interfaces\n (non-SCSI); these drives cannot be used with the 1542. You have three\n choices for CDROM drivers (I have no idea how well the following\n solutions work, or even if they work -- the following is secondhand\n information):\n\n 1. You can buy Adaptec's EZ SCSI driver package, which lists for\n\tsomething like $75. If you already have older Adaptec drivers,\n\tyou can supposedly upgrade to EZ SCSI for around $30. Contact\n\tAdaptec for details. The EZ SCSI package supposedly contains\n\teverything that you need.\n\n 2. You can buy the CorelSCSI! driver package, which is made by the\n\tsame people that make CorelDRAW! This package contains CDROM\n\tdrivers, SCSI tape drivers, WORM drivers, etc. I do not know\n\tthe list price, but I've seen this package sold for around\n\t$80-$90. Note that CorelSCSI! does not come with the ASPI4DOS\n\tdriver, which is needed. If you do not already have ASPI4DOS,\n\tyou may be better off getting Adaptec's EZ SCSI instead.\n\n 3. [This method is obsolete, as the following drivers have been\n\tobsoleted by Adaptec's EZ SCSI kit, but I'm mentioning it in\n\tcase someone already has these drivers.] You can use the\n\tdrivers in the Adaptec ASW-1410 kit (ASPI4DOS) and the ASW-410\n\tkit (ASPI CDROM drivers). You will have to get a copy of\n\tMSCDEX.EXE (a high-level CDROM driver), if it is not included in\n\tthe ASW-410 kit, but this is available from several bulletin\n\tboards.\n\n* To use a SCSI tape drive with the 1542, you need software that knows\n how to talk to a SCSI tape drive. Software that I've heard about are\n (again, like the above section on CDROM drives, I have no idea how\n well the following solutions work, or even if they work -- the\n following is secondhand information):\n\n 1. Central Point PC Tools 8.0 for MSDOS supposedly supports a large\n\tnumber of SCSI tape drives. It comes with SCSI drivers\n\t(ASPI4DOS 3.1) as well as Central Point Backup.\n\n 2. The CorelSCSI! driver package contains a SCSI tape backup\n\tprogram (see the above section on CDROM drives for more\n\tdetails). However, note that CorelSCSI! does not come with, but\n\trequires, ASPI4DOS.\n\n* I've seen advertisements that sell the 1542 in three configurations:\n\n 1. 1542 SCSI controller with hard disk ROM BIOS.\n 2. 1542 SCSI controller w/BIOS and Adaptec ASPI drivers.\n 3. 1542 SCSI controller w/BIOS, Adaptec ASPI drivers, and\n\tCorelSCSI! drivers/programs.\n\n I imagine that Adaptec now sells the 1542 in a fourth configuration:\n\n 4. 1542 SCSI controller w/BIOS and EZ SCSI drivers (including ASPI\n\tdrivers).\n\n* Those people who use Unix might be interested in a version of GNU tar\n for MSDOS that talks to a SCSI tape drive via the ASPI4DOS driver (you\n need this driver before you can use this program). I've never used\n this version of GNU tar, but I've heard that it works (I don't know\n how well, though). If you have anonymous ftp access to the Internet,\n a copy can be found on wsmr-simtel20.army.mil and mirror sites:\n\n\tPD1:\n\tASPIBIN.ZIP 67841 920131 Gnu Tar for SCSI tape drives, Adaptec 154xx\n\tASPIPAT.ZIP 21206 920131 Patches for ASPIBIN relative to Gnu Tar 1.10\n\tASPISRC.ZIP 221370 920131 Src for Gnu Tar for SCSI tape, Adaptec ctrlr\n\n I have no idea if a copy can be found on Compuserve; UNIXFORUM might\n have it, if any forum does.\n\n* As far as MSDOS is concerned, the 1542A and the 1542B controllers are\n the same; with MSDOS, the 1542A should work as well as the 1542B.\n However, the hardware for these two boards is not 100% identical, and\n there is at least one (NON-MSDOS) program that initially did not work\n with a 1542A, but did work with a 1542B (BSD386 -- a 386 version of\n BSD Unix).\n\n* In case anyone's curious, here's an edited copy of my CONFIG.SYS file:\n\n\tFILES=40\n\tBUFFERS=40\n\tBREAK=ON\n\tSTACKS=10,256\n\tDEVICE=c:\\sys\\dev\\aspi4dos.sys /d /n4\n\tDEVICE=C:\\QEMM\\QEMM386.SYS on RAM ROM DMA=32 ST:M X=F800-FFFF\n\tDOS=HIGH,UMB\n\tDEVICEHIGH=c:\\sys\\dev\\nnansi.sys\n\tDEVICEHIGH=C:\\DOS\\SETVER.EXE\n\tshell = c:\\dos\\command.com /p\n\n Note that I'm using QEMM and ASPI4DOS 3.1. If I were using ASPI4DOS\n 3.0 or 3.0a, I'd probably have to use a CONFIG.SYS that looked like:\n\n\tFILES=40\n\tBUFFERS=40\n\tBREAK=ON\n\tSTACKS=10,256\n\tDEVICE=c:\\sys\\dev\\aspi4dos.sys /d /n4\n\tDEVICE=C:\\QEMM\\QEMM386.SYS on RAM ROM DMA=32 ST:M X=F800-FFFF\n\tDOS=HIGH,UMB\n\tDEVICEHIGH=c:\\sys\\dev\\scsiha.sys /V386\n\tDEVICEHIGH=c:\\sys\\dev\\nnansi.sys\n\tDEVICEHIGH=C:\\DOS\\SETVER.EXE\n\tshell = c:\\dos\\command.com /p\n\n If I weren't using ASPI4DOS, I'd probably use something that looked\n like:\n\n\tFILES=40\n\tBUFFERS=40\n\tBREAK=ON\n\tSTACKS=10,256\n\tDEVICE=c:\\sys\\dev\\scsiha.sys /V386\n\tDEVICE=C:\\QEMM\\QEMM386.SYS on RAM ROM DB=32 DMA=32 ST:M X=F800-FFFF\n\tDOS=HIGH,UMB\n\tDEVICEHIGH=c:\\sys\\dev\\nnansi.sys\n\tDEVICEHIGH=C:\\DOS\\SETVER.EXE\n\tshell = c:\\dos\\command.com /p\n\n However, if I used a floppy-controller-based tape drive, or if I\n planned to record high-quality sound from a sound card, I would still\n need some way of changing the Adaptec's bus on/off times. The first\n two versions of CONFIG.SYS take care of this, but this last version\n doesn't.\n\n", "\nNo. The blue LEDs sold down the street are in milky-white plastic. \n\nAnd, fyi, putting a filter on a \"typical visible light LED\" (presumably meaning\na non-blue one) won't produce blue light. A filter can only block light, it\ncan't generate wavelengths that aren't there to start with. ", "I have a Jap. import of One on CD single.\nIt contains:\nOne\nBreadfan\nFor Whom the Bell Tolls (live)\nSanitarium (live)\nOne (demo)\n", "\n\n\nFor those who would like to know, the 6507 was a 6502 without IRQ or NMI,\nand with only 13 address lines (giving 8K memory space).\n\n\nDidn't know about it being called the 6526 - thats the CIA found in the\nCommodore 64 (I don't believe this chip existed when the 2600 was around).\nThe TIA was mapped into the bottom 128 bytes of page 0, and shadowed in the\nbottom 128 bytes of page 1. To get an image on the screen, you had to wait\nuntil the raster line your picture started at, load bitmaps for this line\ninto the 'sprite' registers, tell them what x positions to take, how many\nduplicates you wanted, etc, then do it all again for the next line. This\ntook all of the processor's time during the visible portion of the\ndisplay.\n\n\nThe RAM was mapped into the top 128 bytes of page 0, and shadowed in page\n1. The 6502 has a zero-page addressing mode on most instructions that is\nboth shorter and faster than the normal ones, so it is important on a\nmachine like this to have the scratchpad RAM in page 0. Unfortunately, it\nalso wants its stack to be in page 1 (the stack pointer is 8 bits, and the\nhigh byte of the address is hardwired to 1).\n\nThe IOT section was mapped into page 2 somewhere. 2 8 bit I/O registers\n(can't remember if each bit could be independantly set to I or O like the\n6522 and 6526), and 1(?) 8(?) bit timer with a programmable prescaler (I\nthink this was some power of 2). There were no interrupts in the system, so\nmany games would set up the timer at some known time, go away and do\nsomething else for a while, then sit and wait for the timer to run down.\n\nThere was no logic in the box to do address decoding - the RIOT had at\nleast 2 chip select pins (probably one active high, one active low), and I\nimagine the TIA was much the same. Various address lines were fed directly\nto chip selects. The 6507 likes to have ROM right at the top of memory, so\nthe 2600 had to use ROMs with active high chip selects - not exactly\nnormal, so some cartriges had a 7404 in them to convert this to the more\nusual active low chip select.", "\nLarger drives tend to have multipule platters which can allow adjacent\nbits to be read in parallel resulting in higher throughput. They also\nhave higher spindle speeds which leads to both increased throughput and\nreduced seek times (due to reduction of rotational latency.)", "I recently purchased an IBM monochrome vga monitor from Mike Damico. The\nmonitor arrived but it was missing it's power cable. Mike's address is\napparently not a proper address because mail can't reach it. If anyone\nknows how to contact Mike and could help me find him I would appreciate it.\nI am sure he just set aside the power cord as he was packing the monitor\nbut it would be a lot more useful to me if I had the cord as well.", "See subject. An opportunity for sales-people (-persons? -entities?).\n\nI am looking for a commercial/PD graphics editor with fairly limited\nabilities that runs under X and preferably uses Motif widgets. It must\nrun on HP-UX version 9, either with or without the PEX extension. The\nsort of things I want are simple drawing, resizing and moving of objects\nsuch as lines, rectangles and text. Bounding rectangle operations are\nsufficient for object selection. Ideally it should also allow the\ncreation and placement of more complex objects such as widgets (e.g.\ntext entry fields or labels), but this is not mandatory.\n\nDoes anyone have such an animal? If you do, please mail me with details\nincluding price (especially run-time licensing since it must be\nincluded in a product). Alternatively, send glossies to me at Logica,\n68 Newman Street, London W1, including technical info please. For PD\nstuff, I have some effort that could be put into porting.\n\nThanks for any help,\nNicholas Young.", "Yesterday I changed the US-Keyboard of my Sparc10 with a german keyboard.\nAnd now I cannot get any \"Alt Graph\" characters ('tilde' usw.).\nWhen I exit from X I can get the characters, but not under X.\n\nCan anybody give me some hints, where to check for the correct installation\nof the keyboard.", "Forgive me if this has been asked before... but here goes:\n\nMy friend recently purchased a LC III and he wants to know if there is\nsuch a demon called NuBus adapter for his PDS slot? CompUsa and\nComputerCity Supercenter says they don't carry them.\n\nDoes this mean LC III is incapable of carrying a NuBus board?", "\nI prefer InfoSelect myself, but it is a strange kind of PIM. \n\n\n\nWell, a few things might help you like the 3.1 File Manager better.\n\n1) To get more than one window simply double click on a drive icon.\n That it only gives you one window to work with is a fallacy. You\n can drag files between windows, to any icon on the tree on the left\n side of the window, and to any drive icon. This beats your \"left\n and right window\" as you can have as many open as you wish instead \n of just two.\n\n2) You can launch any app from within File Manager by double clicking\n on the executable's icon.\n\n3) You can launch any application and open a document file by double\n clicking on the document file's icon, provided you have\n associations set correctly. This is easily done with the menus. The\n \"browse\" capability adds a lot of functionality to 3.1. So if you\n name all your text files with .txt and point all GIF, TIFF, etc.\n files towards Paintshop or WinGIF, this takes care of your\n requirement for \"text reading and graphics viewing\".\n\nI know someone who prefers using File Manager as his shell. Setting up\nall the associations you need is the way to do it.\n\nIf Directory Opus is half as good as File Manager then it must be\npretty good indeed! File Manager just needs you to understand how\nsome things are done.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n-- ", ".....\n\nI'll sell mine for $200 O.B.O. - Never Used, I've decided I just don't \nhave the time to get into C++.", ": My wife wants to publish a newsletter. She's no artist, so she intends to\n: use comercial clipart and customise it a bit by drawing a circle or a box\n: around it etc. \n: \n: We have MSPublisher for manipulating text, but it is not suitable for doing\n: much with graphics, so she needs a more specialised tool. Right now she's\n: looking at Corel Draw and Harvard Draw. There seem to be more books in the\n: stores on Corel than on Harvard, so she's inclined to go with Corel on the\n: basis of popularity. Can anyone give us an informed opinion on which \n: package would be more suitable or if there is an even better alternative\n: available? If this is a FAQ, please withhold the flames and just send the\n: location of the FAQ document. Thanks.\n: \n\nGo with CorelDraw. PCMag just did a review a couple of issues ago and Adobe\nIllustrator and CorelDraw were picked as the best.\n\n: Three PS's:\n: \n: 1) Is it ok to use clip art from Harvard Draw or whatever for commercial\n: purposes?\n\n(other two deleted...)\nAs far as I know it's okay. You'd have to read the licence agreement that\ncomes with the package to be sure.\n\n-- ", "I have an Okidata 2410 printer for which I would like to have a printer driver.\nHas anyone seen such a thing? There is not one on the Microsoft BBS.\nI can print to it from Windows but I have no fonts available and with\nParadox for Windows I can't print labels on it unless there is a proper printer\ndefined.\n\n\nThanks,\n\nBryan K. Ward\nSurvey Research Center\nUniversity of Utah", "Does anyone know what the vfintd.386 device is used for in windows 3.1?\nIt's under the [386enh] section as\n\tdevice=c:\\dos\\vfintd.386\n\nAfter upgrading to dos 6 on several machines (different types), some include\nit, some don't.\n\nAny ideas?", "Hi,\n\nI have been told by a local sales that Asante has come out with this\nLCIII PDS Ethernet adapter with an optional 68882 socket on the board.\nMy question is will the FPU performance degrade will I put the 68882\non the PDS card socket instead of on the motherboard itself? Intuitively,\nthe math co-processor should always be placed close to the CPU, but\nI am not sure how good Apple's so-called processor-direct slot is when\nit comes to throughout. Does anyone know the answer to this or have\nany experience with the Asante LCIII Ethernet adapter? Thanks in advance.\n\nAndy", "I have a MOSFET pulled out of a Trygon power supply, for which I have no \nmanual. It's a Motorola part with a 1972 date code and the number\n\n\t\t285-4", "I need to sell the following items:\n\nan Apple IIe computer\nincludes:\n 300 baud modem\n 80 columns\n Zenith green monitor\n tons of software and manuals\n\ncontroller & I/O card\n a Western Digital WDAT-440\nincludes:\n Winchester controller\n Floppy controller\n 2 serial ports\n parallel port\n\n No docs, but jumper settings are printed on the card.\n\nAn AAMAZING 1024x768 .28 dot pitch SVGA monitor\ninterlaced 14\" unlimited colors\nincludes:\n Documentation\n power cord and connecting cable\n\nMust sell these items by May 4. Make me an offer on any of them.", "\nWe all had that problem, you need to expand the fonts manually, the program\n\"decomp\" is on disk 1 & the equations fonts are on disk 3\n\n\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\tHave fun", "I am trying to build and use imake (X11R4) on an IBM RS/6000 running AIX V3.2.\nI am having the following 2 problems.\n\n(1) Many of my Imakefile's have contructs like\n /**/#This is a makefile\n at the start of lines to pass Makefile comments thru the C\n preprocessor and into the Makefile. Most of the C preprocessors that\n I have used will not treat such a # as appearing at the start of the\n line. Thus the C preprocessor does not treat the hash symbol as the\n start of a directive. \n\n However the IBM cpp strips the comment and treats the hash symbol\n as the start of a directive. The cpp fails when it determines\n that \"This\" is not a known directive. I have temporarily hacked my\n imake to handle this situation but would like to come up with a better\n fix.\n\n(2) Several Imakefiles use /**/ as a parameter to a macro when a particular\n use of the macro does not need a value for the parameter. The AIX cpp\n gives warnings about these situations but continues to work OK.\n\nIf you are familiar with these problems and have solutions, I would appreciate\ninformation about on your solutions. (Perhaps, this is solved in a later\nversion of imake that I have not reviewed.) Also, do you know of other cpp's\nthat behave similarly?", "Hi all netters,\n\n If I upgrade my XT with a 286+ motherboard, will I be able to use the old\nbits and pieces like HD, FD, graphics card and I/O card etc. Thanks for you\ninfo.\n\nP.S. I am sorry if my question is on some kind of FAQ.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\tregards,", "For Sale or Trade\n 2 SYNOPTICS Model 2510, LAN concentrators\n\no new, never used, original packing\no each unit has 12 RJ45 ports for 10 Mbps ethernet connectivity\no included are one power supply, manuals, bracket hardware for 19\" racks\no you can setup LANs using unshielded twisted pair (UTP) telephone wiring\n\no both units $400\no or, trade.... I'm looking for 386DX/486DX PC hardware\n\n\nemail: jerry.ciz@rose.com\nphone: 416-855-6205 (24hrs, 7days a week)\n", "Title says it all, I'm after a Vectrex system. If you have one and want\nto get rid of it let me know.\n\nI can offer cash, or possible trades with Megadrive and SNES games.\n\nCheers\nMarc\n\n ------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n ** ** * ****** *** * | On the net,\n ** * ** *** ** ** * * | no-one can hear you scream!\n ** * ** *** **** ** * * |------------------------------------\n ** * ** *** ** ** * * | email marc@comp.lancs.ac.uk\n ** * ****** * ****** ** ** | marc@computing.lancaster.ac.uk", "-- \nI would like to find out about the ADB connector on the back of the\nmacintosh powerbooks. \n\n\tAfter seeing several products that use it for powering devices\n\ton the powerbook I also thought up of something to power from\n\tthe ADB connector (the keyboard/mouse connector)\n\tDoes anyone have spex on it.... I know it has voltage on it\n\tand a serial i/o of some sort if some kind soul could tell\n\tme the way you talk to the mac through it (ie packet info)\n\tIT would BE APPRECIATED GREATLY!!!!!\n\n\ton a second note, What are the pin outs of the \n\tMAC powerbook modem connector .. I have would like to\n\tknow which pins are +5V, data ETC... \n\n\t\tAGAIN THANKS! \n\t\t\tCharles\n\n", "\nWhat sort of traffic is generated with the X-calls? I am curious to find\nout the required bandwidth that a link must have if one machine running\nDV/X is supporting multiple users (clients) and we require adequate response\ntime. Anyone have any ideas ?? \n\n\n", "My Datadesk Mac 101E keyboard has similar problems. I have found that\nholding down the RIGHT-HAND shift key at startup will work (disable\nextensions), but the left-hand shift key won't (which is unfortunate, since\nthe left one is the one I instinctively reach for).\n\nSimilarly, I have trained myself to hold down the RIGHT-HAND pair of\ncommand-option for desktop rebuilds.\n\nI *is* irritating.\n\nCheers,\nMichael.", "\nRefer to patents by JAMES HARRIS ROGERS:\n958,829; 1,220,005; 1,322,622; 1,349,103; 1,315,862; 1,349,104;\n1,303,729; 1,303,730; 1,316,188\n\nHe details methods of underground and underwater wireless communications.\nFor a review, refer to _Electrical_Experimenter_, March 1919 and June 1919.\n\nRogers' methods were used extensively during the World War, and was\nunclassified after the war. Supposedly, the government rethought this\nsoon after, and Rogers was convieniently forgotten.\n\nThe bottom line is that all antennas that are grounded send HALF of\ntheir signal THRU the ground. The half that travels thru space is\nquickly dissapated (by the square of the distance), but that which\ntravels thru the ground does not disapate at all. Furthermore,\nthe published data showed that when noise drowned out regular\nreception, the underground antennas would recieve virtually noise-free.\n\nIF you find this hard to believe, then refer to the work of the\nman who INVENTED wireless: Tesla. Tesla confirmed that Rogers' methods\nwere correct, while Hertzian wave theory was completely \"abberant\".\n\n----\n ET \"Tesla was 100 years ahead of his time. Perhaps now his time comes.\"", "I had a similar idea, for a fax/answering machine switch,\nto put both machines on one line. You order distinctive\nringing from your phone company. This is $3/month here.\nYou get a second (unpublished) phone number. When\nsomeone calls this number, your phone rings with short\nrings instead of long rings.\n\nYou set up your answering machine on 4 rings and your fax\non six rings. You'd give out the new # as your fax #.\nA device would measure the length of rings. When it\ndetects a short ring, it turns off your answering machine.\nFive rings later your fax picks up the call.\n\nThis should be cheaper and more elegant than the $80\nswitches now available.\n\nBut that's not what I did. I'm giving out the new\n# to my friends and customers. This should leave the\nold # for telemarketers, etc. I won't pick up the\nphone when I hear the long rings.", "I want to go from 512K to 1M VRAM on my Quadra 800. How many 512K SIMMS do I\nneed to buy? Is the current 512K soldered on the board or do I need to take\nout the current VRAM before I add more?\n\nThanks,\n\nWesley Stuart Jones", "Misc. Items for sale:\n\n\nWalkman: Aiwa Model HS-T30, 1 year old, mint condition, hardly used, \n autoreverse, 3 band Equalizer, Super Bass, Dolby Noise Reduction,\n AM FM tuner..........Paid $70.......Asking $40+shipping.\n\nMount Plate: Sony Model CPM-203P, mounting plate for Sony portable CD players\nfor Portable: plugs into car lighter, snaps onto the bottom of any Sony\nCD Player: Portable CD player, perfect condition. Will also throw in a \n\t cassette adapter in SO SO condition.\n\t Paid $45...............Asking $30+shipping.\n\nAM FM:\t Factory Stereo from Toyota with AM FM radio, autoreverse cassette\nCassette: deck, digital tuning, like new condition only in car 6 months,\nCar Stereo: Asking $60+shipping.\n\nCar Speakers:\tSherwood 5 1/4\" two way car speakers, in car for 7 months,\n5 1/4 inch:\texcellent condition, Paid $65............Asking $40+shipping.\n\n4 inch:\t Factory Speakers from Toyota excellent condition \n\t Asking $20+shipping.\n\n\nNintendo: Nintendo Game Boy, Light Boy, Tetris, Super Mario Land, \nGameboy: NFL Football, Castlevania Adventure, Hyper Lode Runner, 4 years\n+ games: old\tall in working condition, Asking $70+shipping.\nAccessories:\n\n\nWhole Internet:\tThe Whole Internet: User's Guide and Catalog by ED Krol,\nbook:\t\tguide to using the internet, where to fing information and \n\t\tresources. Paid $30..........Asking $20+shipping.\n\nMicroSoft: Never Used, came with my computer, Asking $ 60+shipping.\nVisual Basic:\n\nMicroSoft: For Windows, never used, came with my computer, \nQuick C: Sells new Student edition for $95............Asking $70+shipping.\n\nPlease resond to fields@cis.ohio-state.edu\n\n\t\t\t\tThanks,", "I have just been introduced to Macintosh systems.\nI have a few questions. E-mail prefered.\n\n1) Just what is System 7? I want hard details not dingy commercials\nlike their ads in magazines...\n\n2) Has anyone used the Microsoft Office 3.0? I would like\nsuggestions on, and descriptions on:\n* each has a microsoft before the actual name.\n\na) *Word 5.1:\nb) *Excel 4.0:\nc) *Power Point:\nd) *Mail 3.1\n\n3) What is the major differences between Mac Wordperfect and Word?", "Does anyone have any information or better, first-hand experience,\nof the new Epson bubblejet printer - Stylus 800??\n\nI'm particularly interested in hearing how well it works under Windows;\nI presume that a special printer driver is required - is it supplied\nas standard? Is it able to print everything that a standard Postscript\nlaserprinter could??\n\nMany thanks for any replies - George ", "\n\nI don't know how to say it best but you are gaurenteed that the\nprice of the C650 is going to drop this year. This week's MacWeek\nreports that Apple is probably planning a drop in August. My guess\nis that it may come sooner if Apple decides to change the price\nstructure upon release of the multimedia units this summer.\n\nYour price looks pretty good at about $50 more then I payed for\nmine last month. I would have rather waited for one of the new\nmachines this sommer (like the Cyclone) but the resale value of my\nIIci would have not been squat by then. Thus, financing forced me\nto purchase now. I'm happy with the machine and won't feel\nbetrayed at all when Apple cuts the price to less then $1000 next\nweek (heh).\n\nBottome line: If the C650 does what you want, buy it. If you wait\nuntil the Cylcones come out for a price break then you might as\nwell wait for the PowerPCs to come out for another price break and\nthen the units which follow them. You may save some money but\nyou've lost a lot of time when you could have been using the\ncomputer. Face it, Apple's prices are going to be in a continuous\nstate of flux. At least they aren't going to try raising them\nagain (grin).", "I am looking for a shareware graphics package called NeoPaint v1.1. I \nsaw it in a shareware catalog and was hoping that I could FTP it from \nthe net but have been unable to locate it. I have tried Archie and I \nhave gone through the entire comp.graphics newsgroup looking for some \nreference to it and have found none. I have also looked through the \nFAQ and also no reference. The program is called NeoPaint v1.1 and if \nanyone has heard of it or knows where I can get it I would appreciate \nit.\n\nSuggestions for other PC based shareware paint programs would also be \nappreciated. Email me your responses.", "\nWell, I have a different story to recount. I attempted to low-level format a\nWD 43MB disk about a year ago. When I understood my error, I contacted WD.\nThey told me that I hadn't hurt the drive and that I should just run FDISK and\nFORMAT/S on it. It was fine. Also, I understand that Western Digital's BBS\nmay have some low-level formatting routines specifically available for IDE\ndrives. You probably need to talk to them and get the straight scoop.", "\n\nYou are quite correct in your understanding. The filtering is not\ninterpolation, as that would distort the frequency content of the signal\nyou are listening to. Generally, these players run the samples thru an\nall-pass filter network. I have done this for ECG waveforms from a person's\nheart, and the effect is rather spooky. It actually reconstructs peaks\nthat weren't there (correctly, too!) and fills in the gaps with the\nproperly computed values, just as if there had been a real sample taken at\nthat point. I use a CPU to do all the math. It takes a decent (but not\nunreasonable) amount of CPU time to do this. You can keep up with things\nin realtime if you write efficient code.\n\nIn case you care, the filtering method uses an FIR (finite impulse response)\nfilter. I'd guess that CD makers use the same kind of method. Anybody out\nthere know the real answer? I'd say that they use a tapped delay line with\nresistor/op-amp weighting to accomplish the filtering. This strikes me as\nthe most cost effective method for volume production runs.\n\n\n\nActually, I think the only reason they do this is so that they can say that\nthey have a marketting gimic. I would guess that it is acutally cheaper to\nfilter an oversampled signal than not. You can use sloppier components and\ngive the filter a roll-off that isn't so sharp. It's too bad that they\ncharge more for something that (I think) is actually less costly to build.\n\nI seriously doubt that the filters cost the same but are better. They are\nbuilt to a price spec, and that spec says \"cheap as possible!\". \n\n\n\n -dave", "Hi folks,\n\nI'm trying to compile xfig 2.1.7 on a SS1+ running SunOS 4.1.1 and OW 2.0,\nand I'm having a little trouble with make/imake. Specifically, make bombs\nwhen it needs to use any Xaw file. This isn't surprising since X11 files\non Suns with the standard OW 2.0 distribution are in various places under\n/usr/openwin (Xaw files are in /usr/openwin/share/include/X11/Xaw !!)\nActually, the real problem is that I know squat about imake, and I don't\nknow how to tell imake where the X11 files are. I can see from the \nMakefile that it's looking in the wrong places, but the first line of the \nMakefile reads \n\n # Makefile generated by imake - do not edit!\n\nHelp! Is there some way I can edit the Imakefile to tell it where to\nlook? (I have set DEFINES = -DOPENWIN_BUG, as it said to in the README\nfile.)\n\nEmail and post are both fine.\n\nThanks in advance,", "\n\n\tWith relays alone, you will always get a transient when\nyou abruptly turn ON or OFF any channel. If you don't want to hear\nthe transient, use some other device (a photoresistor-output optoisolator\nis the usual sort of thing) to gently MUTE the signal, then switch,\nTHEN remove the power from the lamp in the optoisolator.\n\n\tIt used to be standard practice to employ photoresistors\nin switching audio, because the photoresistor time delay (a few\nthousandths of a second) kept any noise in the digital side (which\ndrives the lamp) from contaminating the audio. And, the devices\nare cheaper than relays.", "\n\nwell it seemed to work for the Mac II installation I was talking about.\nOh yeah there is something I forgot to mention :\neven though you're not suppposed to have water around, there IS\n some condenstion d\ndripping from the roof of the plane make sure that your hardware is covered.\nMake also sure that your keyboards are protected from the two-phase flow\ncoming out of sick people. It happened to us.....\n\nGood luck.\n", ": Help!! I need code/package/whatever to take 3-D data and turn it into\n: a wireframe surface with hidden lines removed. I'm using a DOS machine, and\n: the code can be in ANSI C or C++, ANSI Fortran or Basic. The data I'm using\n: forms a rectangular grid.\n: Please post your replies to the net so that others may benefit. IMHO, this\n: is a general interest question.\n: Thank you!!!!!!\n", "{early PA?}\n# I recall reading of a phonograph which used mechanical amplification.\n# Compressed air was squirted out of a valve which was controlled by the\n# pickup. The result was noisy and distinctly lo-fi, but much louder\n# than a conventional phonograph. It tended to wear the disks out\n# pretty quickly though.\n\nAn now-deceased prof told us willing students about a project he had\nworked on during WWII.\n\nThey needed a mega-power PA with very clear audio quality. The purpose\nwas to bellow at refugees from aircraft.\n\nTheir solution was a giant compressed-air source, and a horn with\nparallel shutters worked by a small audio system. I think he said it\nworked very well, thus the War Dept. cancelled the project ;_}.\n\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHaving in mind the size of the images, my opinion is to go with VLB.\nIt has _much_ more bandwith that EISA, which in fact can be utilized\nby the craphics card. (I have not made measures, so someone else may\nshare experience on that.)\n\nAlso, the DX2/66 is faster in the operations, that run off internal\ncache, slightly slower off the external and about the same off memory.\nSo my advice is the 66/VLB.\n\n\n\n\nHave You tried running Photostyler without the cache? No need to have\npaging and cache both. (Well, you might argue, that the paging is\ncached). My belief (no measurements) is that apps left with more\nmemory will manage it better than smartdrv.exe(sys).\n\n\nThe bandwidth (theoretical) of ISA is over 5MB/s, which is far from\n0.15MB/s. I tried my ISA IDE hard drive (Maxtor 213MB) and got the\nsame results - 0.65MB/s - regardless of the ISA bus speed\n(5.5-8.25MHz). So I guess, that just the card/drivers combination is\nlousy.\n\n\nThe rumors are that DX3-99 (if any) is the most likely chip to come\nout. But note, that IBM is closest to the technology an it will only\nsell whole motherboards, so you'll have to upgrade the MB.\n\n\nJust some view, not much figures.\n\n--\nPenio Penev x7423 (212)327-7423 (w) Internet: penev@venezia.rockefeller.edu", "My brother is in the market for a high-performance video card that supports\nVESA local bus with 1-2MB RAM. Does anyone have suggestions/ideas on:\n\n - Diamond Stealth Pro Local Bus\n\n - Orchid Farenheit 1280\n\n - ATI Graphics Ultra Pro\n\n - Any other high-performance VLB card\n\n\nPlease post or email. Thank you!\n\n - Matt\n", "TOSHIBA P321SL\n-track/friction feeds\n-LCD display\n-3.5 months old\n-like new\n-sample print-out sheet (GEOWORKS) available\n-EMULASER (a 2-month old program by VERTISOFT\n makes print-out look like an inkjet print-out)\n-$175 firm.\n", "I'd like to appeal to the net's NT wizards for a bit of advice.\n\nFirst a general description of the machine as follows:\n Motherboard: Utron 33 mhz Opti chipset, 20 meg memory, 256kb cache\n (soon I hope to drop a DX2 chip into it)\n Fahrenheit 1280 video (1 meg, 1024x768x256)\n ProAudio Spectrum 16 sound board\n primary disk = Connor CP30174 on a caching IDE controller\n secondary disk = Conner CP30174 as slave on same controller\n tertiary disk = Fujitsu ??? 650 meg on Superstore ESDI controller\n planned future disks include SCSI HD and CD ROM on PAS16 SCSI port\n Tape drive is a Colorado Jumbo 250 on the Floppy controller\n future tape drive may be a DAT on the SCSI interface.\n Other hardware includes modem/fax, serial ports, and a teletext board\n (ugly dos software drives the latter)\n\nApplications used include normal windows stuff (excel, word, Quicken\nand Turbo Pascal/Windows) but the important stuff is my Audio\nwork environment which includes Turtle beach Wave for Windows, MCS Stereo,\nand other misc stuff for dinking around with audio files. Also I use\nStacker on the primary drive, HP Newwave (for my wife's use, and she \nwon't let me get rid of it!), and a product called Infinite Disk from \nChili Pepper Software for hierarchical storage management of my seldom \nused offline files. \n\nI plan to upgrade to NT, when it becomes a released product. I was stongly\ntempted to become a beta user early on, but I don't have time to mess around\nwith the hassles of beta software. I expect to buy it, tear off the \nshrink wrap, and use it without hassle (I know, unrealistic, but I can\nhope can't I, after all, I have work to do).\n\nThe advice I want concerns the state of NT regarding device drivers, and \nhardware specific stuff in general. How smoothly can I expect the \nupgrade to go? Can I expect support for all my stuff, or do I\nstill need to scramble around downloading drivers (PAS?, Orchid?, Colorado?) \nfrom some bbs, etc. What steps should I take to ensure the installation\ngoes smoothly. Note that I want to nuke dos totally from the system. I'm\nallergic to command lines! I plan to run a \"pure\" NT system. Also, will \nNT communicate with the workgroups lan? What about stacker? I currently \nhave stacker on the first disk drive. Without Stacker, and the Infinite \nDisk product, I will have great difficulty fitting everything I have on the \nsystem (It's cramped now).\n\nI realize Stacker will be incompatible with NT, but will there be an NT \nversion? Or will NT support compression a la Dos 6? I know Infinite Disk\nwill be incompatible with NT, but will they offer (or does anybody else)\na comparable product for NT and at what cost? (perhaps I need to ask \nChili Pepper that question) I can live without ID if I have to, but I'd\nrather not. Will NT run my DOS apps (the teletext board mainly) without\nDOS on the system? What do I need to keep around?\n\nAny feedback or advice (including \"forget NT\" with good reasons) is much\nappreciated. My only significant reason for moving to NT is I need a better\nmultitasking environment than Windows (among other reasons, WAVE locks up\nthe machine for hours and hours doing DSP processing on large audio files),\nand I want better lan support than I now have (Internet access, etc). Maybe\nthere are better solutions than NT and if so, I would appreciate hearing \nabout them (OS/2? What's it's status these days?)\n\nPls respond by email and if there is interest I'll summarize for the net.", "I just got caller-id (except Bell calls it \"call display\" and didn't know\nwhat I was talking about when I asked for \"caller-id\"). I got the\ncheapest display box I could find, and hope to convert it to serial out.\n\nThe chip used is an 18-pin DIP marked \"CDT 14-285\" and \"1473 9220\".\nI presume the 9220 is the date.\n\nI'm hoping somebody out there knows something about this chip, to save\nme a very strange few hours hooked up to a scope, asking my friends to\ncall me again and again.\n\nI'll post any interesting replies, and my experiences.\n\n-simon tooke", "I have been using a NEC 3FGx for several months now. Several others here \nalso have this monitor. We have had no problems. Personally I would spend \nextra money for this monitor and sacrifice other features on a PC such as 33 \nMHz viz 50 Mhz. Based on the comments of others you might want to view the \n3FGX vs the 4 series on a PC running windows at 1024x768. The refresh rate \nappears ok for me, but you might feel differently. Finally speaking of \nspending money, with the size of today's files, etc, a tape backup is \ncertainly worth $200-$300. Recently I set up a friend's PC 50Mhz and VESA \nlocal bus. The redraw time for a graphics program was only a factor of 2 \nfaster which I doubt warrants the extra cost.\n", "\n Currently there are no \"Velcro\" jump boots as issue in\nthe military, there are two other kinds. One is made my\nCochran and sell for $85.00 in either the Clothing sales\nstore or US Cavalry (Price match at the Cav store) the\nsecond co is also sold but somewhat cheaper in design.\nActually they don't care what you wear as long is they\nare 10 eyelets high.\nThere is another boot called a \"Tankers boot\" this has\nsimilar construction to a wellington boot except for the\nboot shape and has straps that wrap around for tightness.\nNice boots\n", "\nI _do_ know that IBM systems, the PS/2 56SLC2, in particular, have\nabsolutely no problem with OS/2--never had a \"random\" crash while\nrunning any of my programs under OS/2. In fact, I don't remember\n_ever_ crashing.\n\nOf course, I really don't run any OS/2 programs, just the same bunch\nof DOS and Windows stuff that I've always been running.\n\nAnd when I had the 56SLC (this is the 386SLC system) running\nDos/Windows, I had only one crash, and it was consistent. FTP had a\ntendency to crash whenever I would get large files (>1mb) from\nparticularly fast clients (DTR's 150K-200K/sec), I figured out the\nproblem was with smartdrv's write buffering--if I turned off the write\nbuffer, everything would work fine.\n\nFTP under OS/2 has never locked, though. I can even format floppies\n(to use the most often cited example of the superiority of OS/2.)\n\n\nYeah, I guess I'm willing to admit that OS/2 is somewhat sensitive to\nspecific hardware. WP51 for DOS works perfectly fine on my SLC2...\n\n\nWell, I save all my personal files to floppy, and when i did that\nunder Windows, a floppy save of a large file hung up the system.\n\nI also found it quite bothersome to have to continually tweak the\ntasking options on fractint for dos whenever I wanted to do a fractal\ncomputation in the background.\n\n", "I am using xnlock as the screensaver for a PC-based X server. However,\nafter an interval of no activity, my X session ends. This does not\nhappen when I use xscreensaver. \n\nMy screensave command is fired up from my .xsession like this:\n\nxautolock -time 1 -locker xnlock -corners ++++ -cornerdelay 1 &\n\nMy hypothesis is that xdm (I use xdmcp to start my X session) detects\na period of inactivity from the server, then terminates the session.\nHowever, for some reason, this does not happen with xscreensaver. Is\nthere a workaround?\n\nI'd prefer responses via e-mail.\n\nThanks.\n\n\n\n\n", "Hey folks,\n\non the course to develope a X window application, we encountered\na problem. How could I transform a X window bitmap into a postscript\nfiles ? Is there any library routines or source code I can call to\ndo the job ?", "For Sale:\n\nSelmer Mark VII Tenor Saxophone\n\nUsed for College Jazz Band Performances.\n\nI will include a copy of \"The New Real Book\" whick is a\n\tcollection of Jazz Classics and various other standards.\n\t(paid $30 for it).\n\nOther extras included.\n\nAsking $1100\nWe can discuss shipping and COD charges.\nsend me some e-mail or call me 303-224-4317 (home) or 303-491-7585 (school)\n\n\n-- \n******************************************************************************\n\n\tDavis\n\tjd490475@longs.lance.colostate.edu", "Also, if someone would recommend another\n\nTry looking at the Brainstorm Accelerator for the Plus. I believe it is\nthe best solution because of the performance and price. Why spend $800\nupgrading a computer that is only worth $300 ????\n The brainstorm accelerator is around $225. It speeds up the internal\nclock speed to 16MHz. That may not seem like much but it also speeds up\nSCSI transfers. I think that feature is unique to brainstorm.\nCheck it out.", "I am looking for an algorithm to determine if a given point is bound by a \npolygon. Does anyone have any such code or a reference to book containing\ninformation on the subject ?\n\n\t\tRegards", "completed\n\nWhy would you dispose a channel if you are going to play more\nsounds soon? If you are trying to write a game, you shouldn't\nbe using SndPlay. Instead, make a channel and use BufferCmds\nto play sounds on it. It works great. You can add CallBacks to\nthe channel also to let you know when the channel is getting\nempty. Before it gets empty.\n\n7.1,\n\nCallbacks are very reliable, I found them 100% reliable, even\nunder System 4.1. I was doing continuous background sound with\ninterrupting sound effects on System 6.0 with the IM-V\ndocumentation.\n\nYou probably were cancelling your callback commands out of\nyour channels, of course you didn't get called. In general, if\nyou have problems with sounds working when you play one per\nchannel and then close the channel (with the related\nslowdown), but then when you play more than one you don't\nwork, then you are adding more than one synthesizer to a\nchannel, possibly the same one multiple times. This might be\nbecause you are calling SndPlay on a preexisting channel with\na sound resource which adds the sampled sound synthesizer to\nthe channel first thing before it plays. Most sampled sounds\nhave this command at the start of them. You need to resedit\nthe sound and remove that command, then when you create your\nchannel, specify the sampled sound synthesizer to be the\nchannel's synth. Then you can use asynch sndplay's all you\nwant. You'll probably want to switch to BufferCmd's, since you\nare going to have to use SndDoCommand anyway to add callbacks.\n\nNow before you go ahead and tell me I am full of it, and the\nsound manager doesn't work for games, remember, Spectre uses\nit. And it works great. If Spectre can spare the CPU time, you\ncan too.\n\nOne little disclaimer: There are some out there who say the\nSound Manager in the IIsi can't be made to work right. I'm not\nsure either way, but I know for sure that you can make your\nsounds work 100% correctly on every other machine using the\nSound Manager.", " \nDigi-Key also sells Quad Line Receivers, parts DS1489AN (68cents) and DS1489N\n(48cents). A Quad Line Driver, part DS1488 (48cents), is also sold. I guess\nif you don't won't to supply +12V, the chips with the pump-up circuitry might\nbe worth the extra cost. But 1488's and 1489's are available at your friendly\nneighborhood RS, parts MC1488 (276-2520) for $1.29 and MC1489 (276-2521) for\n$1.29.", "\n\n\nAnd my '78 CX500 too - I first thought it was the wiring diagram that didn't\nfit MY machine ;-)\n", "I've recently ordered a Centris 650 and need to decide on which modem to\nbuy. I'm pretty sure I want to get a fax/data modem that can run at 14.4k,\nbut is it worth it? I'll primarily only be 'conversing' over CompuServe or\nsome other link to the Internet, but I'm not sure if those systems can\nsupply ME with data at 14.4k. Another question I have is in some of the\nmodem lingo out there. I understand baud rates, but what does V3.4 and\nV3.4bis mean? I could really use some suggestions as to what a good modem\nfor around $300 would be, and why it would be a good choice.\n\nThanks for your time.\n\nDave Bell\ndbell@coral.bucknell.edu", "I have a pair of AKG 340s in nearly new condition for sale. They\nhave been used in my studio for mixdown monitoring. I have the original box.\nThe 340s use both an electret element and a dynamic element in each ear cup\nwith built-in crossovers. They have a very smooth frequency response and\nthe electrostatic element gives clearer highs. I am asking $200 for the\npair.\n\nBrett Maraldo \n- Plexus Prodcutions\n\n\n", "I'm trying to transfer some software between two machines \n\tand I'm having real trouble. My own Intel 14.4k (\n\tv32/v32bis/v42/v42bis) works fine--I just talk to it\n\tat 56k and everything comes out clear. This other modem,\n\tat the other machine, is a \"Turbomodem+\" from \"The \n\tComplete PC\" (the machines are in seperate houses, \n\tso a direct serial link is impossible, and copying this\n\tmuch data to disk is a pain--easier to turn the machines\n\ton for a few hours and go see a movie--no, this is not\n\tpirated software).\n\n\tI am having no end of trouble trying to set it up. It will\n\tdial and connect just fine--at 9600 baud. But if I try to\n\tset the comm at 19k2, 38.4k or 56kbps, the stupid thing\n\tconnects, but just gives garbage (it connects 14.4k). \n\tHis machine (a dx48633) has a 16550AFN UART, so that's\n\tnot the problem.\n\n\tIt seems to me that the stupid thing wants to talk to \t\n\ta comm program _at_ 14.400bps, even though it will take\n\tdialing instructions at 56k (and respond OK, etc. to \n\tother commands). I don't have a comm program that can\n\tdo precisely 14.4k. \n\n\tI looked at the manual but it was unclear. All I know is,\n\tI didn't have this trouble with the Intel--it came\n\tready to connect this way. Do I need to initialize it\n\tany way in particular?\n\n\tAlso, it's _using_ V.42bis and V.42 (and MNP5) when connecting\n\there (i.e., at 9600, since our tests at 14k4 are zip so far)\n\tbut it doesn't _say_ so there. any ideas?\n\n\t(BTW: I tried the initialization string that I use for\n\tmy modem, but it just gives ERROR on that one)\n\n", "I have an Intel Above Board (16 bit) with 2 megs of ram\n\tthat I would like to sell ASAP. Please email me offers\n\tif interested!\n\n\tThanks", "You are right in supposing that the problem is with the XmNcolormap\n(XtNcolormap for truly literate beings) not being set. What you want\nto do is start your application with your new colormap. This can be a\nchicken and egg sort of problem, however. If you look at the Xt FAQ\nthere is an example that should show how it can be done. If not, let\nme know and maybe I can improve the example.\n\n--pete", "\n\tI have a 5FG and think it is great. I haven't seen the Nanao's so I\ncan't compare, but the 5FG image is very sharp and the color contrast is\n*extremely* good. I've used other Trinitron monitors (e.g. a Sun SS2 color\nmonitors, which is a 19\" Trinitron), and think the 5FG is at least as good,\nperhaps brighter, and has *none* of these silly horizontal lines running across.\n\tBTW, I could be wrong, but I thought that the 5FGe is slower as well\nas missing ACCUCOLOR. It may not be able to handle 1280x1024 the way the 5FG\ncan.", "The simplest and cheapest soft UV bulb is an AR-1 argon bulb (or other argon\nbulb). It works like a neon bulb except it glows purple. It will cause\nstuff to fluoresce. It requires very little power, just a battery, an\noscillator, and a step-up transformer to about 100 volts.", "\n A program in the archive keymap00.zip on simtel and mirror sites in the \nmsdos/keyboard directory will do this. It is written in assembler and it \nbest if you have a compiler to create a new keyboard map. It is possible, \nhowever, to use a binary editor to edit the provided compiled keyboard \ndriver if you do not have a compiler. I used hexed100.zip, also available \non simtel. Simply serach for the codes 00 01 02 03 to locate the biginning \nof the \"normal\" keyboard map. Then swap the codes for the keys that you \nwish to swap. See the keyboard directory of simtel for programs that report \nthe scancode for each key to you (some bios programs also have this info).\nGood luck,\n\n- Pete\n____________________________________________________________________________", "\n \n\t\t\t\t\t\n\nWouldn't it be cheaper to just buy a little fourteen inch colour tv? Just \ncurious...\n\n\n\n\n\n--", "I am think of buying a new computer through the mail order, I am looking at\nthe Gateway 2000 66V systen and the Zeos's system. Which is better (in terms of\nvalue, price, ungrade, service), because I am in canada, I wonder can i have\nthe same level of service as in the states? ", "Moving Sale\n~ Large table $25\n~ Four-drawer dresser $29\n~ Five-shelf book case $19\n~ Chair $19\n~ 15-speed Bicycle (KHS brand) $69\n~ Microwave oven $59", "For sale: Toshiba 3300SL notebook computer. \n\nSpecs:\n\n\t80386SL (64K cache) @ 25MHz, * 8MB * RAM, 80 meg 16ms IDE hard drive, \n\t1.44meg floppy, 5.9 lbs w/ Nickle Hydride battery installed, edgelit\n\tgreyscale VGA display, PS/2 mouse port, external keyboard\n port, 1 PCMCIA port, external expansion port, external VGA port, 1\n\tserial, 1 parallel ports, socket for 80387SL numeric coprocessor\n\t(user-installable). Memory is expandable to 18meg.\n\n\tVoted Editor's Choice by PC Magazine. An expansion station is\n\tavailable from Toshiba; Axionics also makes one that is more\n\teconomical.\n\t\n\nPower conservation options: \n\n\tUser definable hard drive powerdown period, screen dimming,\n auto stepdown of CPU speed (to 12.5, 6 MHz) after definable interval,\n\tetc.\n\nComments:\n\n Purchased locally at Micro Center in Columbus, OH 7 months ago. All\n\toriginal packaging, receipts, and manuals are included. Under\n warranty. The keyboard on this machine is the best I've seen; I\n\tprefer it to the keyboard on most desktop units. I typically\n get 3-4 hours of battery life. The battery recharges in 2 hours to \n full charge. The machine is quite speedy; I run OS/2 2.1beta\n\ton it currently and will leave this operating system installed unless\n\tyou prefer MS-DOS 5.0 (included).\n \n I'll include a padded carrying case, also made by Toshiba.\n\nPrice/terms:\n\n\t$1900 (semi-firm), certified check. If outside of Columbus, I will\n\tpay for COD shipping.\n\n\nPlease respond with all queries to 'grichard@cis.ohio-state.edu' or\ncall 614-261-0902.", "Does anyone have a version of \"Which Mac Do I Buy?\"\nthat is later than v 1.3.1?\n\nI no longer have access the ZiffNet/Mac, accessed\nthrough CompuServe, to check for myself.\n\n\"Which Mac...\" is a HyperCard stack that assists\nin decision making based on budget, features, and\nmain software used.\n\nPlease let me know if you can help me out. Download\nfrom CompuServe should not cost much if a higher speed\nmodem is used. Stack, compressed, is about 125KB?\n\nThanks for any help...\n\nDale \ncarsona@sfu.ca", "I need a device (either an ISA board or a subsystem) which will\ntake two RGB video signals and combine them according to a template.\nThe template can be as simple as a rectangular window with signal\none being used for the interior and signal two for the exterior.\nBut I beleive fancier harware may also exist which I do not want\nto exclude from my search. I know this sort of hardware exists\nfor NTSC, etc. but I need it for RGB.\n\nPlease email and or post any leads....", "Hi Folks,\n\nDoes anybody know where I can find the \"Color\" bitmap editor\naround the public sites? Any information I do appreciate that.\n", "\nI have the same question as Guido. It is possible to use the ESDI drive as a master and the IDE drive as the slave ? \nAt the moment , I have been using the ESDI drive and recently I bought a IDE drive to use as the 2nd drive . \nThe person in the computer shop told me that it is not possible to run 2 disk controller cards together on the same motherboard ( ESDI AND IDE ) but I think there might be some way of making them work. Can anybody enlighten me on this?\nAnd it is possible to run a ESDI HDD using a IDE controller? or vice versa?\nCan anybody please help me out on this?\nYour help will be very much appreciated.\n\nG.Chow", "[stuff deleted]\n ^^\n\n Just a note, even though the 805 can address 2 megs of dram, the\nStealth 24 VLB can only handle 1 meg, unless Diamond has a newer\ndesign (or some special deal with Zeos).", "\n\n\nSorry, I don't have the demo, but I do have the program and have been\nusing it for the past few weeks. Since I now have Dos 6 as well, I\ndon't use many of the features of PCT4Win. But I do so use:\n\t- the PCT Desktop with drag and drop printing, folders in\n folders, and multiple desktops\n\t- the file manager which is far superior to win 3.1's fm.", "The above does not tell the proper story of SCSI:\nSCSI-I: 8-bit asynchronous {~1.5MB/s ave}, synchronous {5MB/s max} transfer \nbase.\nSCSI-1{faster} this requires a SCSI-2 controller chip and provides\n SCSI-2 {8-bit to 16-bit} speeds with SCSI-1 controlers.\nSCSI-2: 4-6MB/s with 10MB/s burst{8-bit}, 8-12MB/s with 20MB/s burst {16-bit}, \nand 15-20MB/s with 40MB/s burst{32-bit/wide and fast}. 16-bit SCSI can be\nwide or fast, it depends on how the port is designed{The Quadras will support\nfast SCSI but not wide when the OS SCSI manager is rewritten since the\nQuardas use a SCSI-1 {non-wide} port}.\n\nThe article in PC Mag 4/27/93:29 was talking about SCSI-1 {SCSI-2 uses\nTEN (10) devices in it native mode, outside its native mode it behaves a\nlot like SCSI-1 (7 devices, slower through put}\n\nFrom your own figures SCSI-1 is indeed twice ESDI as the article pointed out\nas for \"20% faster then IDE\" that seems to be 8-bit SCSI-1 using a SCSI-2 \ncontoler chip {The Mac Quadra uses a SCSI-2 controler chip for its SCSI-1\nand gets 6MB/s through put for asynchronous {8-bit} SCSI-1, far in excess of a\nnormal SYNCHRONOUS SCSI-1 output} 120% of 8.3 is 9.96 which is near\nthe burst of a SCSI-1 machine with a SCSI-2 controller chip.\n\nThe PC world seems to have SCSI-1 and SCSI-2 mixed up. Fact is SCSI-2 \ncontroler chips allow near SCSI-2 speeds through a SCSI-1 device\n{As shown in the Mac Quadra} which skews some of the data of SCSI-1 vs\nIDE or ESDI test. I agree that the article COULD have stated that the \"20%\nfaster then IDE\" came off a SCSI-1 device with a SCSI-2 chip. Maybe it\nwas there and the EDITOR killed it because the article was dealing with\nSCSI-1 NOT SCSI-2 and he did not understand the effect of a SCSI-1 device\nwith a SCSI-2 controller chip.\nSCSI-1 chips are limited to 5/MB max. SCSI-1 devices with SCSI-2 chips\n{becoming common} produce up to 10Mb/s in 8-bit mode and 20MB/s in 16-bit\nmode {the fast version, SCSI-1 ports cannot use wide SCSI}. Of cource\nthe prime piece of wierdness is that SCSI-1 devices HAVE SCSI-2 chips\n{or more accurately the machine does}. This allows the best of BOTH\nworlds: high SCSI-2 speeds and cheeper SCSI-1 costs {FULL SCSI-2 hardware\n(port, electronic controller, etc) is VERY expensive. It ALSO creates\na logistic NIGHTMARE as to how fast SCSI-1 goes.", "I just purchased The Norton Desktop for windows, and I also have\nNorton Utilities. When I installed NDW, it wanted to rem out the line\nthat installed EP (EP /ON) and the command to invoke the Image utility.\nIt replaced the Image command with a new image command that invokes the\nversion of Image that came with NDW. This makes sense, as presumably the\nImage version with NDW is newer than the one with NU. It did not, however,\ninstall smartcan in the autoexec. Now two questions:\n 1: Will NU use the image data saved by the newer version of image invoked.\n i.e. Are the two version of Image compatable?\n 2: Will erase protect use the info from smartcan, and vice versa?\n I use both dos and windows, and I want to make sure that when I\n erase files in either environment, they are going to be protected.\n\nFrom the experiments I have run, The two programs (Erase Protect and\nsmart Erase) don't use each others info.\nI currently have both EP and smartcan loading within my autoexec, and\nI don't see any conflicts;\n\nFYI : Norton Desktop for Windows version 2.2\n Norton Util's version 6", "ITEM: Sony ES-CDPX229*\nCONDITION: excellent\nAGE: 1 year old\nPRICE: $300\n\n*includes TOS.LINK\n\nITEM: Sony CDP 770\nCONDITION: excellent\nAGE: 2.5 years old\nPRICE: $250\nEverything comes with the original packaging and manuals. These items have\nonly been played through audiophile system and are in excellent shape. If you\nare interested, or need any additional information, please e-mail\n(pc1o@andrew.cmu.edu) or call me at home.\n\nThanks,\nJon\n(412) 882-6425", "Hello,\n\nthe subject line says it all: I'm looking for a TGA file viewer for the ATI\nUltra + card. It should support the true color modes, of course.\n\nIf someone knows where to find one via FTP, please let me know.\n\nthanx", "\nIf I understand your problem correctly, you want to have a way to send\nexposures to your manager widget when your app-specific code draws xlib\ngraphics on the window.\n\nIt sounds like you might want to send an exposure using\nXSendEvent and specifying a region. If you know the region you need to\nsend the exposure, generally you have the bounding rectangle of the objects,\nyou can use XCreateRegion to create a region, XUnionRectWithRegion to add the\nnew object polygons to the region, and then either use the region\nto clip your GC for the redraw or use XRectInRegion to test which of your\nother objects need to be redrawn. Keeping in mind that the stacking order\nof overlapping objects affects how they look.\n\nHope it helps\n\n-- \nBrian Dealy |301-572-8267| It not knowing where it's at \ndealy@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov | | that's important,it's knowing\n!uunet!dftsrv!kong!dealy | | where it's not at... B.Dylan", "\n\n\n\n\n\nDid I once hear that in order for the date to advance, something, like a \nclock, *has* to make a Get Date system call? Apparently, the clock\nhardware interrupt and BIOS don't do this (date advance) automatically. The\nGet Date call notices that a \"midnight reset\" flag has been set, and then\nthen advances the date.\n\nAnybody with more info?", "\n\nTwo things that annoyed me about the PC Magazine review:\n\n1. Their benchmarking technique is seriously flawed, as was clearly shown\n by the Graphite and #9GXE's \"cheating\". Can't they just admit that\n their benchmark is to easy to optimize for and/or cheat on? WinTach\n is much harder to beat...\n\n2. The big \"cheat\" that Hercules/IIT used was overlappipping BitBlit and\n PolyLine optimization, and Hercules sent them a new driver which didn't\n do this -- but produced almost identical scores. Yet, the only thing\n PC Magazine says is that scores are not \"legitimate\" -- couldn't they\n at least make some comment about its real-world performance?\n\nI'm not so much going by WinBench for performance, but, rather, by Steve\nGibson's results, which are more real-world based (like using Micrografx\n\n \"Despite these documented cheats, I have to say that in real-world\n applications the Hercules Graphite adapter actually draws faster than\n any other display adapter in the industry. [...] Even though it's\n just a modest ISA bus card, it outperformed every local bus adapter I\n have, including the Stealth 24 VLB, the Fahrenheit 1280VA/VLB, the\n ATI VLB Mach32 and even the Weitek P9000-based Diamond Viper VLB.\"\n\nThis kind of praise is enough for me to be interested in it, bogus WinBench\nor not! :)\n\n\nI already returned the ATI GU+. My dealer had sold eight of them, and \nseven were returned to him. I'm now (temporarily) back to running an\noriginal ATI GU, until I get my Graphite. And, yes, the GU is faster in\nmy 16 MB system than the GU+, especially in bitmap handling (that's where\nyou use BitBlits).\n\nHercules has a promotion available for VARs and software developers: you\ncan buy one Graphite or Graphite VLB for 50% off list to try it out. At\njust $199 for Graphite or $249 for the VLB version I decided it was worth\ntrying (I'm supposed to get the VLB board within two weeks). I'll post\nmy impressions when I get it...\n", "I've got an Eimac 818A/4PR1000A transmitter/linear amplifier tube,\nunused, in original packaging (but opened and inventoried). I'd\nguarantee this tube to operate and be as observation and its\npaperwork say (unused), although I have no transmitter to test it\nwith. Offers?\n\n-- \n--------------------------------------------------------------------\n Dave Medin\t\t\tPhone:\t(205) 730-3169 (w)\n SSD--Networking\t\t\t\t(205) 837-1174 (h)\n Intergraph Corp.\n M/S GD3004 \t\tInternet: dtmedin@catbyte.b30.ingr.com\n Huntsville, AL 35894\t\tUUCP: ...uunet!ingr!b30!catbyte!dtmedin\n\n ******* Everywhere You Look (at least around my office) *******", "\nWhat conclusion can be drawn from this? I'm trying to figure out what kind\nof memory configuration for the LC III (32-bit datapath) would be fastest. Any\nideas?\n\nThanks,\nJason MacDonald", "Unless otherwise noted, I am mainly interested in USED items.\nIf you have (any of) the following for sale, please contact me:\n EMail mbeck@vtssi.vt.edu\n Phone (703)552-4381\n USMail Michael Beck\n 1200 Progress Street #5500E\n Blacksburg, Virginia 24060\n \nPlease give as much info as possible (brand, age, condition, etc)\n~~~~~~~~~~WANTED as of 12AM, 4/16/93~~~~~~~~~~\n \nCOMPUTER EQUIP:\n \n1 CHEAP tape drive - pretty much any kind (Used)\n \n1 Memory for PS/2 Model 50Z (New or Used)\n \n1 Macintosh computer\n \n1 486 66mhz chip (New or Used)\n \n1 COLORADO tape drive, 250 megabyte, preferr. w/ 5 tapes (Used)\n \n1 101 key-AT keyboard\n \n1 High Density (1.2 mb) 5 1/4 disk drive\n \n1 Printer - OMS410 or HP LASER or HP DESKJET series\n \n1 Printer - 24 pin or DESKJET\n \n1 High Density (1.2 mb) 5 1/4 disk drive EXTERNAL\n \n1 Adaptec 1542 SCSI 16-bit HD/FD controller (Used)\n \n1 Piggy back memory expansion for INTEL INBOARD 386 \n \n1 130 MB IDE Hard Drive\n \n2 17\" monitor, 1280 resolution, .28 dot pitch or better, digital\n \nmult. XT's, AT's and laptop systems to go to Russia\n \n \n \nNON-COMPUTER EQUIP:\n \n1 drum set \n \nmult. amps for a band\n \n1 TV - 27\" or bigger, stereo\n \n1 VCR - 4 Heads, stereo\n \n1 Receiver - 100 Watts or more w/ Dolby Prologic Surround Sound\n capability\n \n1 Bed - Full or Queen sized - LOCAL OFFERS only, please", "Hello\n\tI have posted to this newsgroup once before and recieved a\nmoderately helpful response on a couple of issues. This I appreciated very\nmuch . I would however like to know why it is that ther is simply NO \ninformation out there on some subjects for the relativly novice graphics\nprogrammer. The subjects are\n\n\t1) How do you access the extra video memory on a video board. I\nknow somwhere there aresome standard video bios calls that allow you to\ndothis. I have 1meg of memory on my board and according to all the books\nand info I have read I am only (at maximum) using 256k of it. There is a\nway to do this in standard VGA cause I have seen vidoe paging (written in\nassembly, which I don't know) written into apps hat use mode 13h. To get\nany speed at all you have to do this. How do I do it?\n\n\t2) The vesa standard. What gives here. I have read most of what\nthe net has to offer on VESA and as far as coding for VESA goes most of\nthe advice is cryptic at best. Where do I get public domain info that will\ntell me in \"mostly plain\" english how the vesa calls work.\n\n\tMy biggest gripe is about number 1. I have bought graphics books,\nI have asked graphics professors, I have hunted the net through both\ngopher, and archie, I ahave asked apps programmers and it is like there is\nsome lock on this information. Graphics programming books tell alot of\nprogrammiing algorithm information, but they always fall short of telling\nyou how to really control the video bios. What are all the calls folks, I\nknow there are people out there that know how to doall tis stuff. Where\nare you, and why haven't you written a book yet? \n\nPlease help\n\nThanks in advance", "After reading many postings concerning hard drives I'm still unclear\nabout one thing. These new \"cached hard drives\" - is the cache on the\ndrive itself or is it separate, like on the controller or something?\nThanks to anyone who can clear this up.\n\n-- ", "Does any one know if the 6551 is timing/pin compatible with the 6551.. \nIt seems the 6551 has in iheirent bug with cts/rts handshaking and i need\na suitable pin replacement to put in my serial card... possibly a buffered\nversion perhaps?\n\n", "1. Can low Voltage lights be controlled with an X10 module by putting it \nbefore the transformer? It seems to work, even the dimmer works. Not very \nreliable. Will it damage the module? Can it be done reliably?\n\n2. I put a motion switch (Heath) to a low voltage light, it worked but now it is\nbroken, too much current? How can I get arround that? \n \n3. How can I increase the intensity of a light using the X10 PC computer\ninterface without having it go 100% on first and then down. I am doing\nmy own programing, not the X10 program.", "\n\nThe problem is that Motif uses XGrabKey to implement menu accelerators,\nand these grabs are specific about which modifiers apply. Unfortunately,\nthe specification for XGrabKey doesn't allow AnyModifier to be combined\nwith other modifiers, which is exactly what would be desired in this case:\n\"Ctrl Anyq\".\n\n\nThis is true for accelerators and mnemonics, which are implemented using\nevent handlers instead of grabs; it's not true for menu accelerators. If\nyou're a Motif implementor, I'd suggest lobbying to get the Xlib semantics\nchanged to support the feature I described above. Otherwise, change the\ndocumentation for menu accelerators to properly set the user's\nexpectations, because menu accelerators are NOT the same thing as\ntranslations.\n\n\nIf you mean \"menu accelerator\", no it's not possible. That's according to\nthe definition of the XmNaccelerator resource in the XmLabel manual page.\n\n\nI can't think of a reason why not.\n\n\nThere is a workaround for Motif users. In addition to the normal menu\naccelerator you install on the XmPushButton[Gadget], set an XtNaccelerators\nresource on the shell (TopLevel or Application). Install the shell's\naccelerators on itself and all of its descendants with\nXtInstallAllAccelerators (shell, shell).\n\nFor example,\n\n applicationShell - mainWindow - menuBar - fileCascade\n\t\t\t\t\t -- filePulldown - openPushbutton\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t - exitPushbutton\n\n *openPushbutton.accelerator = CtrlO\n *openPushbutton.acceleratorText = Ctrl+O\n *exitPushbutton.accelerator = CtrlQ\n *exitPushbutton.acceleratorText = Ctrl+Q\n\n *applicationShell.accelerators = #override\\n\\\n CtrlO: PerformAction(*openPushbutton, ArmAndActivate)\\n\\\n CtrlQ: PerformAction(*exitPushbutton, ArmAndActivate)\n\nYou have to write and add the application action PerformAction, which you\ncan implement by using XtNameToWidget on the first argument and then\nXtCallActionProc with the rest of the arguments.\n\nI tested out something similar to this. To shorten development time, I\nused TeleUSE's TuNinstallAccelerators resource to install the accelerators\non the shell, and I directly invoked the Open and Quit D actions instead\nof asking the pushbuttons to do it for me, but the more general approach I\ndescribed above should work.", "Any pointers to articles, or personal opinions, critiquing user\ninterface toolkits that operate across many windowing systems (e.g., X,\nMS Windows, Macintosh) - you know, Open Interface, XVT, Aspect ...\n\nIf you reply with your opinion, please BRIEFLY state your choice and a\nshort discussion why.\n\nSteve Maher\n\nmaher@outland.gsfc.nasa.gov\n-- ", "--> A humble response to a letter by G. Scott Braley written 04-21-93 20:43.\n\n\n GSB> a 286 upgrade would probably cost about $50, 386 about $150 or so. \n GSB> Coprocessors or accelerator cards would cost at least that much.\n\n'Tis true! I just saw an add for 286/20 motherboards for $80. I have seen\nwhole 286/12 systems, complete with case, power supply, keyboard, floppy,\nand mono card/monitor going for $250.\n\n... \"He was a man, all and all, I shall not look upon his like again.\"\n--- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10\n ", "Hi! I was wondering if anyone out there could help me.\nI have an error message that goes:\n\n\n\nWhat does it mean?\n\nI am running MS windows 3.1.\n\nThanks in advance", "\n[ First of all, please edit your postings. Wading through 50 lines of\n quoted crud, which people have already read, makes people much less\n likely to help you. Of course, if you don't want to be helped, that's\n your problem. ;-) ]\n\n\n No, it's not true. You can get SCSI and IDE to work together, but\nthere are restrictions (at least with the Adaptec 1542):\n\n* You MUST boot from the IDE drive. There is no way to boot from the\n SCSI drive if you have both IDE and SCSI drives.\n\n* You MUST disable the SCSI ROM BIOS (I'm not sure about this, though),\n and so you must also use some special drivers to access the SCSI\n drive. (Hmm. I know that you have to disable something related to\n the SCSI BIOS, but I'm not sure if it is the ROM itself.)\n\n Back in February, someone asked about IDE and SCSI (this question\ngets asked again and again). At the end of this message, I've included\nan edited copy of my reply. You might find it interesting.\n\n -- Darryl Okahata\n\tInternet: darrylo@sr.hp.com\n\nDISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not\nconstitute the support, opinion or policy of Hewlett-Packard or of the\nlittle green men that have been following him all day.\n\n===============================================================================\n\n For MSDOS applications, ISA-based SCSI and IDE controllers\ngenerally have comparable throughput. You might get slightly higher\nthroughput with a SCSI disk, but you'll also pay more for the disk\n($30-$100 and up, in some cases). You'll also pay much, much more for a\ngood SCSI controller.\n\n Note that good SCSI controllers really show their power if they're\nused with a good multitasking operating system (like a PC Unix).\nUnfortunately, neither MSDOS nor Windows 3.1 is a good multitasking\noperating system. The performance advantage of SCSI controllers is\nmostly wasted with these, which leaves the advantage of being able to\nconnect multiple devices to the SCSI bus as the only advantage.\nHowever, note that you can expect to pay a premium for SCSI devices.\n\n If you're only going to be using MSDOS, stick with IDE. It's\ncheaper, and you'll have less headaches.\n\n\n[ Note: the following is true for MSDOS/Windows only. Who knows what\n the future holds for Windows NT and Unix??? ]\n\n No. Generally, you have to find drivers for each SCSI device,\nwhich probably don't exist unless you're using one of the \"better\"/\"high\nperformance\" SCSI controllers. These are typically bus-mastering SCSI\ncontrollers that cost around $180-$400 (street prices) and up, and\ndrivers that allow you to connect these controllers to popular\nname-brand SCSI devices either come with the card, or can be purchased\n(for under $100 list price). Examples of such driver kits are:\n\n* Adaptec's EZ SCSI kit (list: $75). This works only with Adaptec SCSI\n controllers.\n\n* CorelSCSI! (from the same people who make CorelDRAW!) (list: $99 (?)).\n This driver kit will supposedly work with any SCSI controller card\n that has an ASPI driver, like the Adaptec.\n\n Central Point's PC Tools for DOS 8.0 supports a number of SCSI tape\ndrives (the documentation lists 40 tape drives). Unfortunately, it\nworks only with Adaptec controllers.\n\n\n Yes, you will run into problems, if you're using a\nhigh-performance, bus-mastering SCSI controller. This doesn't sound\nright, doesn't it? It's true, though. With one of these controllers,\nyou'll probably have to tweak your system to get it to work with sound\ncards, floppy-controller-based tape drives (like the CMS Jumbo 250), and\nWindows 3.1. I know. I've been to h*ll and back getting my SCSI\ncontroller to work with various hardware/software (thank God for tape\nbackups). If you want a copy of my \"Adaptec 1542 hints and tips\" file,\nsend email.\n\n These problems aren't really the fault of the SCSI controller card;\nthe problems are really with the general hardware and software design of\nthe PC (e.g., no standards). However, adding a bus-mastering SCSI card\nis what brings these problems to the surface and makes them visible.", "What ways are there to hook up to an appletalk network to use an Apple\nLaserWriter? Is there a way I can use an AppleShare File Server also? The\nless memory used the better. Thanks. Any help greatly appreciated.\n", "controler \nprodrive \nyou \nare \nwant \non \nmoney.\ncable.\nand \nthe\n\nIs this true??? I was under the impression that people on the net had both \nSCSI and IDE working together.\n", "Could someone please e-mail or post a cheap source for ink carts for the HP\nDeskwriter? Original HP carts are preferred, but I will settle for\nthird-party brands if they are of good quality.\n\n+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+\n\n /~~~~~~~\\\n\\_____ |\n | | TTTTTT EEEEE VV VV EEEEE |\n | | TT EE VV VV EE |\n /---/ | TT EEEE VV VV EEEE | Steve Liu |", "\nYou probably need an X server running on top of MS DOS. I use Desqview/X\nbut any MS-DOS X server should do.\n\n-- ", "\n\nI was at the Trenton Computer Fest and there were many sources of\nink refills for the HP and Canon, so if you don't like the ink you're using,\nyou have a choice. There is a Frequently Asked Question (FAQ) list\nthat's reposted occasionally that reports how to refill the cartridges\nyourself with inks that are available from the stationery store\ninstead of a \"specialty\" ink with the specialty price.\n\nI'm not sure, but I think I found another legal source of cheap\nhypos for injecting ink into the cartridges.\nMore on that when my mail order succeeds.\n-- \nJeffrey Jonas", "Computer Equipment Garage Sale:\n\nI've finally decided to clean out my closets and get rid of some of the stuff\nthat is broken or not being used by me. I've put together a list and\nindicated what I think each item is worth. This is just my estimate, and I\nam very open to any offers, including trades. I'm currently looking for\nsome CD-ROMs that will work with a Mac CD ROM player CD Caddies, HD floppy \ndisks, any used Macintosh software, a 387-33Mhz Co-Processor, or basically \nanything you have lying around (cans of soup, the neighbor's cat, etc...) \nMake me an offer, no offer will be overlooked... \nI really want to get rid of this stuff...\n\nOk, Here's the list:\n\n52 Meg 3.5\" SCSI Hard Drive. Conner Model #CP-3150. I bought this from a guy\n\tat a swap meet to use with my Macintosh. Unfortunately, I can't seem \n\tto get it to work with the SCSI controller in my computer. The\n\tguy tested it with his PC, and printed out a copy of the Norton Disk \n\tDoctor report which says it has no bad sectors. (I'll send you a copy) \n\tI was dumb enough not to get his phone number, so I can't return it to \n\thim. The drive has many jumpers on it, (which I don't know how to set) \n\tso maybe that's the problem. I was quite disappointed that it didn't\n\twork so I'm trying to minimize my losses.\t~$45\n\n52 Meg 3.5\" SCSI Hard Drive. Conner Model #CP-3150. Same situation as above.\n\tI bought both of these drives from the same guy. Despite the different\n\tmodel numbers they are the same exact drive. Same report from NDD\n\t(I have one for each drive) will be included.\t~$45\n\n40 Meg SONY 3.5\" SCSI Hard Drive. SONY Model #SRD2040A. The drive mechanism \n\tis completely trashed. This hard drive was in my computer (Mac SE) and\n\thad a stiction problem. Well, repeated banging on the side of the\n\tcomputer resulted in a head crash (yes, metal scraping metal) which\n\twas not too pleasant to listen to. Still the SCSI controller\n\tcard is in good working order, and can be used for parts, or a \n\tproject.\t~$20\n\n65 Meg Seagate 5.25\" HH SCSI Hard Drive. Model #ST-277N. I originally bought\n\tthis drive, because it had a small stiction problem, and I though that\n\tI could fix it. Well I determined that the drive mechanism was fine,\n\tand that it was a controller problem. (motor controller wasn't sending\n\tproper signals.) Well, after taking the controller off the drive, \n\tlooking at it, and putting it back together, I realized that I\n\taccidentally severed one of the small flat cables that connect the \n\tdrive to the controller. I tried to solder it, but I'm not that good\n\tat soldering so I couldn't do it. Worked perfectly before I messed\n\tup. I used it as a temporary drive when the SONY (above) crashed on\n\tme. Also loaded the drive with about twenty Mac applications,\n\tworth well over $1000. (Claris CAD, MS Word 5.0, Think C,\n\tExcel, and many others) \n\tI think all it needs is a resoldering of that cable. You also get all\n\tthe software on the drive. (if you can accept being a pirate) I only \n\task that you delete my data files from the drive. I was really angry\n\twhen I broke that connection, and then couldn't fix it. I just don't \n\thave time to play with it any more.\t~$65\n\nAT&T ISDN 7500 Modem. This is for use on digital phone systems. If you know\n\twhat this is or would like technical information on it, let me know. I\n\thave some tech documents on it. Is supposed to be the same thing as an\n\tAT&T digital phone, but without the phone part. It seems to be in \n\tworking order (passes self test perfectly OK). I have no idea how \n\tthis is worth... Let me know if you're interested.\n\nMotorola 68881 CoProcessor. I haven't tested this one out yet, but if anyone \n\tis interested I will get it tested out, to make sure that it works. I\n\thad trouble using it with my accelerator board, but then I spoke to the\n\tmanufacturer of the board and found out it couldn't be used without \n\tanother controller chip. When I was looking around to buy one new, the\n\tprices were around $100. I will guarantee this to work.\t~$65\n\nCGA Card. Half-Length. 8-bit. Wasn't working last time I checked (although\n\tI think I was using a bad monitor)\t~$5\n\n5.25\"\t360K Floppy Drive. IBM Drive Type 1355. Guaranteed to work, \n\tbecause when I took it out of the PC, it was working!\t\t~$25\n\n5.25\" 360K Floppy Drive. Toshiba Model Number ND-08DE-A. Guaranteed to \n\twork. Came out of same PC as above.\t~$25\n\n5.25\"\tFloppy Drives. Can't guarantee that these will work. I don't\n\teven know if they are low or high density drives. I don't have\n\tany method of testing them.\n\t\tPanasonic Model number: JU-455-5 ACG. There's another\n\t\t\tnumber on it: 2626-361723.\n\t\tPanasonic Model number: JU-475-2 AGG. There's also\n\t\t\tanother number on it: H3649-101457\n\t\tToshiba Model Number ND-08DE. Virtually identical to the one \n\t\t\tabove.\n\tEach Drive ~$10\n\n3.5\" PS/2 Drive. These things are proprietary, so I can't test it, but I\n\tthink it works. Not sure if it's high density or low density, but I\n\tsuppose someone who is looking for one would know. Model Number\n\tDFL413C04A. I think these things are expensive to replace. ~$35\n\nMFM Hard Drive Controller Cards. I've got three of these, and I have no way\n\tof testing them. Two of them are 8-bit cards, and one is a sixteen bit\n\tcard with a floppy controller built in.\t~$10 for the 8-bits ~$15 for\n\tthe 16-bit card w/floppy.\n\nInteresting cable. Seems to convert from a VGA plug to an EGA plug. That is,\n\tstandard nine-pin to VGA 15 pin. Made by Hewlett Packard. Part No.\n\tD1181-80020\t\t~$10\n\n\n\nI've sold stuff like this before, and it was a huge success, with many \nsatisfied people trading or bartering stuff they didn't need anymore. I \nusually ship through the U.S. Postal Service (haven't had any problems yet) \nand the shipping costs will be split or negotiated.\n\nWell, that's all folks. As I said before, no offer will be refused. If you \ncan convince me to give OCit to you instead of throwing it out, TRY! I hate\nto throw away stuff...\n\n\n-Wayne", "We have a Sun CD-ROM drive which I would like to play audio CD's in.\nI have an old 10 watt amplifier which works fine when connected to a\njunk \"Walkman\" style AM/FM radio. This amp ties the common path of the\nearphone connection to ground.\n\nHowever, it doesn't work with my Sony Walkman cassette player, or the CD drive,\nit produces of loud low-frequency tone. Obviously Sony doesn't ground\nthe earphone output common. Does anyone have specs on the CD drive's \noutput? Will an audio transformer help? What are others using to\nplay there CD's in the Sun drive so that more than one can listen?\n\nThanks for the help.", "I've been getting seemingly random disk accesses on my Centris 610\nwith a Quantum 240 LPS, but this is NOT the regular recalibration it has been\ndoing since I got it.... This is sometimes short, sometimes long, accesses\nthat sound like there is some read/writing going on.\n\tI have SAM 3.5, and Disinfectant 3.0, but neither picks up anything..\nAny ideas?", "\nHow does that compare with JPEG on the same images and hardware as far\nas size, speed, and image quality are concerned?\n\nDespite my skeptical and sometimes nearly rabid postings\ncriticizing Barnsley and company, I am very interested in the\ntechnique. If I weren't I probably wouldn't be so critical. :-)", "X-Disclaimer: All views are my own unless expicitly stated otherwise.\n\n\n\n\nThat are the authorisation files for the server.\nDepending on what type of key your X supports they contain magic cookies,\nDES based authentication or SUN DES authentication.\n\nThe place is defined with the DisplayManager.authDir \nOther things like the file name can be changed as well see XDM manual pages.\n\n\n", "A few weeks ago I saw an ad in the German magazine c't\nabout a so-called Videostreamer. This is an interface\nbetween a PC's parallel port and any video-recorder for\nbacking up your data on a videotape. The company (DataSave?)\nclaims that it can store up to 7 GB on a 300 minutes tape.\n ^^^^^^^^^^\n\nIt costs DM 250.- (about USD 200, I think)\n\nMy question is:\n Does anybody use this product, if yes, how many bytes \n REALLY fit on a 300 minutes tape (7 GB sounds quite\n unbelievable to me). \n\nHowever, any comments on the interface are appreciated.\nPlease mail your replies directly to me, I will sum up\nif neccesary. Thanks in advance...", "\nApple doesn't make such a card, though I suppose a third party could. One\nbig problem is that there isn't room for a standard NuBus card inside the\nLC III.\n\nnoah", "Can anybody tell me how to use the Xmu function \"XmuCvtStringToWidget\". I\nwant to specify a widget name in a resource file so that I can connect\ntwo widgets together on an XmForm. ie.\n\nMyProggy*MyListSW.topWidget: MainTextSW\n\nHowever, when I run the program, I get the message:\n\nWarning: No type converter registered for 'String' to 'Window' conversion.\n\n(Just like the manual sez).\n\nI have managed to find this bit of code which seems to be the correct way\nto go about this:\n\n static XtConvertArgRec parentCvtArgs[] = {\n {\n XtWidgetBaseOffset,\n (XtPointer)XtOffsetOf( CoreRec, core.parent ),\n sizeof(CoreWidget)\n }\n };\n\n XtSetTypeConverter( XtRString, XtRWidget, XmuCvtStringToWidget,\n parentCvtArgs, XtNumber(parentCvtArgs), XtCacheAll, NULL );\n\n\nHowever, I haven't got a clue where to put it! The example code I have seems\nto suggest I can only do this if I am creating my own widget; but elsewhere it\nsays that I can add it to a widget's \"class_intialize\" function. HOW? What's\none of those? :-(\n\nIf anybody has any code to do this, please let me know the trick - I'm sure\nthis is a FAQ.\n\nThanks in advance,\n\nRik.\n\nPS: What are the header files \"CoreP.h\" and \"IntrinsicsP.h\" - should I use\n these or \"Core.h\" and \"Intrinsics.h\" (OK I know RTFM:-)", "\nNo, it isn't. It is the \"X Window System\", or \"X11\", or \"X\" or any of\na number of other designations accepted by the X Consortium. In fact,\ndoing \"man X\" on pretty much any X11 machine will tell you:\n\n The X Consortium requests that the following names be used\n when referring to this software:\n\n X\n X Window System\n X Version 11\n X Window System, Version 11\n X11\n\nThere is no such thing as \"X Windows\" or \"X Window\", despite the repeated\nmisuse of the forms by the trade rags. This probably tells you something\nabout how much to trust the trade rags -- if they can't even get the NAME\nof the window system right, why should one trust anything else they have \nto say?\n\nWith regard to dialup X11 implementations, there are several. You can\nbuy serial X11 terminals from a couple of companies, including both \nGraphOn and NCD. (In fact, I'm composing this from an NCD running X11\nover serial lines across 14.4 kbaud connection.) \n\nNCD also sells a software-only package that provides XRemote (which is\nNCD's implementation of serial X11) for PC's. There may be other such \nsoftware packages available.\n\nX11R6 is supposed to include a standardized compression scheme for running\nX11 over low-speed connections. It's called Low Bandwidth X (LBX), and \nis based on improved versions of the techniques used in NCD's XRemote. \n\nIt seems likely that once LBX is released as a Consortium standard, there\nwill be several vendors willing to supply implementations for various \nsorts of hardware.\n\nFollowups directed to comp.windows.x", "(posted for a friend)\nhello there,\n I would like to know if any one had any experience with having\non-board decoupling capacitors (inside a cmos chip) for the power\nlines. Say I have a lot of space left im my pad limited design.\nany data on the effect of oxide breakdown? any info or pointers\nare appreciated.", "I was planning to use the following pipe to move some display data to a system\nthat has a color hardcopy unit:\n\n\txwd | xwud -display hostname:0.0\n\nI had tested it with some simple windows like the OpenWindows file manager,\nand it worked fine, but when I tried it with a more complex (larger) image,\nthe xwd part blew up with a segmentation fault. I tried it without the pipe,\nby redirecting xwd's output to a file and then used the file as input to xwud\nand got the same error from xwud. If I had to guess, it seems like it's\nrunning out of memory, but this happened on a SPARC 10 with 64 megs, 128 meg\nswap space, and only one user with minimal activity. The file was about 3 MB.\n\nThis verion of xwd/xwud was supplied with the Sun OpenWindows 3.0 distribution\nwhich I believe corresponds to X11 R4.\n\nAny ideas? Thanks in advance.\n-- \n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDave Humes | Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory\n(410) 792-6651 | humesdg1@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu", "\nDoes anyone out there have the toll-free (catalog request and order line) for\nHeathkit/Zenith? Please post the number if you've got it! Thanks.\n", "\n\n\n\nThis pretty much confirms my original impression after reading\nthrough the documentation on dos-6. The double space sounds nice,\nbut NOT on your primary disk!! I'll probably wind up making a\ndisk partition d: and doublespacing *it*, using it as an archive.\nProbably would be useful on floppy disks as well. But on c:? Uh, uh...\n\n[I particularly disliked the note that said something like \"double\nspace is irreversible\"].\n\n--Cindy\n-- \nCindy Tittle Moore", "Hi! Everyone,\n\nI don't clearly understand 'occlusion' in computer graphics.\nWould you please give me an explanation?\n\nBTW, what's the difference between 'occluded surface' and opaque surface?\n\nThanks in advance.", "Okay, I don't use it very much, but I would like for it to keep working\ncorrectly, at least as long as Apple continues to make System software\nthat will run on it, if slowly :-)\n\nHere is the problem: When the screen is tilted too far back, vertical\nlines appear on the screen. They are every 10 pixels or so, and seem\nto be affected somewhat by opening windows and pulling down menus.\nIt looks to a semi-technical person like there is a loose connection\nbetween the screen and the rest of the computer.\n\nI am open to suggestions that do not involve buying a new computer,\nor taking this one to the shop. I would also like to not have\nto buy one of Larry Pina's books. I like Larry, but I'm not sure\nI feel strongly enough about the computer to buy a service manual\nfor it.\n\nOn a related note: what does the monitor connector connect to?", "\n\n I have recently used the 4066 to switch a bipolar signal. I simply\nran the 4066 off a bipolar supply, +/- 8V in this case. As long as your\nanalog input signal stays between the supply rails, the 4066 will work fine.\nOf course, your control (logic) input must use -8V as the logic LOW and\n+8V as the logic HIGH reference, so that either (1) all your driving logic\nmust be 4000 CMOS with the same bipolar supply or (2) you must provide\nsome kind of voltage level shifting circuit between the 4066 and the\ncontrol logic. In my case, I was able to use the bipolar supply all the\nway.\n\n", "This sounds like a good question, the hardware is specific to him, but\nin general please respond to him via news and not e-mail. There probably\nare alot of people wanting to read the replies, including myself.\nmike\npackard@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu\n", "\n\n\tSome TV's, including my RCA set at home, uses simple carriers\nwhich I think run between 32 and 36 or 38 KHz. There is no tone decoding\nin it. All one has to do to piss the thing off :-) is just hook an\nIRLED up to a variable oscillator and tune through. Wreaks all kinds\nof havoc. :-)\n\n\tSimilarly, my VCR remote changes channels on my cable box. Always\nseems to change the cable box to channel 5 when you do the pause/play.\n\n\tSOOOO, some things do have some overlap to them.", "I am selling my Global Village Teleport 2400 bps modem w/send fax. It\nconnects to the mac through the ADB port. The software for sending\nfaxes is included. I am asking $90. However, I will consider other\nreasonable offers. Please E-Mail me.\n\nDave", "Isn't this the point of \"a better windows than Windoze\". :). \n\n", "\nPrice reduced: asking $165 only!\n", "-| \n-| Alas, we too will have to stop using it.\n-| \n-| Brian\n-| --\n-| Brian Glendenning - National Radio Astronomy Observatory\n-| bglenden@nrao.edu Charlottesville Va. (804) 296-0286\n\nIt says in the licence that non-profit organisations have the rights to\ncopy, use, distribute etc.. Does that not cover NRAO ? I sure hope it\ncovers us. Please someone let me know if I have to buy a licence.\n\n\tbest regards\n\t\tAta <(|)>.", "Hi,\n\nI've got a Victor PC/XT with a 20 MB harddisk in it. The controller is\na Toshiba MFM controller, with an additional 9 pins connector.\n\nThere are 2 busses from my harddisk to this controller. One with 9 wires\nand another with 34 wires.\n\nThe controller has two connectors for a 9 wire-bus and one for a 34 wire\nbus.\n\nNow I got a 20 MB harddisk from a friend of mine, and I wondered whether\nI can connect this second harddisk to the same controller (there is room\nfor a 9 wire-bus, but not for the 34 wire bus)\n\nHow can I solve my problem, any suggestions?\n\nIf you need more info, mail me, please (luttik@fwi.uva.nl).", "\n\n\n\n\n\n1. Dont rely on benchmarks. They often show incorrect due to different\n TSR programs.\n\n2. SCSI often needs a driver to get the speed from the card.\n\n3. Make sure the card is operating in synchronus mode which is 2x faster.\n\n4. You can disable disconnect and get some kB/s but just to loose the mouse\n or other int`s when diskaccesing.\n\n(I get 2.3MB/s with DX50 LB and SCSI LB and Maxtor LXT340SY - Coretest)\n(I get 1.3MB/s - Sysinfo)", "\nDominik,\n\n\tHave you tried xgrasp? It's out there on several ftp sites.(not sure which, but archie can find it, I'm sure.) It works ok but it lacks an interface.", "I use the new keyboard with a IIfx, and I like it. I am not a touch typist\nso some of the advantage is loss on me - but there is difference and less\nstress on my wrists.\n\nDan\n-- ", "Hello,\n\nThanks to the people who helped me with the problem of\ndisplaying 24 bit images. All the viewers like xli,\nxloadimage and display are converting the 24 bit images\nto 8 bit before display them on the screen.\n\nWhat I really want is a viewer with make use of the 24 bit\nframe/screen buffer (in our case, the Parallax one).\n\nThanks in advance.\n\nGilles", "\nOne more good reason for straight pipes or megaphones;-)\n\nRegards, Charles\nDoD0.001\nRZ350\n\nPs: Does anyone know if Opti oils sells direct by the case load?\nMy loacl dealership is charging 12.99 for a jug of injector oil,\nand it's breaking me;-)\n", "Well, renaming screensavers (.scr) to .exe, and running them, as has\nbeen pposted, (I haven't tried changing win.ini , but should have same\neffect) shows me the \"setup\" dialog. box, butdoesn't enable the saver.", "*** On 04-21-93 04:30, Michael Shapiro had the unmitigated gall to say this:\n\n MS> The DOS system date has a twenty-four hour clock and a rollover bit.\n MS> When the system crosses midnight, the rollover bit is turned on. \n MS> Subsequent reads of the time add one. There's no change possible\n\n MS> (This information was current up through DOS 3.3. I've not checked to\n MS> see whether it applies to later versions.)\n\nJust a small tidbit: with the advent of DOS 3.3 and later versions, MS added\na small \"feature\" to the DOS time function. If a program sets the DOS clock\nvia DOS system services, then DOS will set the BIOS clock to the same value.\nThis breaks the isolation between the two clocks that used to ensure that\nerrors in the DOS clock did not bleed over into the BIOS clock.\n\nSometimes the Microsoft people just don't think! :)\n\n... Fact: Mickey Mouse wears a Al Gore wristwatch.\n--- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10\n ", "\nI'm also interested in info both public domain and commercial graphics library \npackage to do PC VGA graphics. \n\nI'm currently working on a realtime application running on a PCC with a \nnon-DOS kernel that needs to do some simple graphics. I'm not sure if \nreentrancy of the graphics library is going to be an issue or not. \nI suspect I'll implement the display controller as a server process that \nhandles graphics requests, queued on a mailbox, one at a time. If this \nprovides sufficiently frequent display updates then I believe that I can \nrestrict all graphics operations to be performed by the server and thus \nconstrain access to the library to a this single process and avoid the need\nfor a reentrant graphics library. \n\nBeing fairly new to the realtime systems world I may be overlooking something,\nwhat do you think?", "In the MacUser article on the new centris and quadra machines mentioned\nthat the C650 and the Q800, and not the C610, had ROM accelerated video.\n\nIt didn't seem to make much difference in their \"benchmark\" test.\n\nWhat is it? I don't recall seeing it in Dale Adams post.\n\n-Erik Speckman", "Hi there,\n I am looking for advice on software/hardware package for making, \nstoring and processing of pictures. The ideal software would allow me to\ncahnge size of the picture, edit it ( it means add text below, above...) \nand the most important is it would have DOS command interface...\nThank you in advance...\nemanuel marciniak\nthe bank of new york.. \n", "Hi ... can anyone tell me where I can get a copy of updated Canon BJ-200\nprinter driver for Windows 3.1, if any ? I have ver 1.0 which comes with\nmy BJ-200 printer, I just wonder if there is any newer version.", "Hi! I will like to know if there is a FORTRAN library for MS-Windows v3+ out\nthere.\n\nI have several lots of source code written by past A/Ps in MS-FORTRAN, and\nrecently have needed to port them to MS-Windows... I would like to avoid a\nmajor code-rewrite if possible - maybe a WINDOWS library is all I need?\n\nPlease help - reply by E-mail to: traversmorgan@swell.actrix.gen.nz", "Recently the following problem has arrisen. The first time I turn on my \ncomputer when windows starts (from my autoexec) after the win31 title screen \nthe computer reboots on its own. Usually the second time (after reboot) or \nfrom the DOS prompt everything works fine.\n\n s far as I remember I have not changed my config.sys or autoxec.bat or \nwin.ini. I can't remember whether this problem occured before I \noptimized/defragmented my disk and created a larger swap file (Thank you \nMathCAD 4 :( )\n\nSystem 386sx, 4MB, stacker 2.0, win31, DOS 5\n\n---\n---------------------------------------------------------------------", "My disk that had my joystick code that some of you were kind enough to mail\nme puked....specifically, I am looking for C code to read the position\nof joystick WITHOUT using int15h, i.e. accessing port 0x200/0x201 directly.\n\nI need it in C becaues of memory model considerations.\n\nI only need to be able to read the X and Y position also.", "\n Hmm your CD-Rom program must be using some oddball VGA modes.\n\n I think they are trying to get it out by the end of this month, when\nit is released though it'll be in limited quantities, I think they\nhave quite a back order right now (the 2 megs version will come out\na bit later).\n\n Since you have a Viewsonic 17 (I think it has a 78khz horizontal\nfrequency right?), you're gonna love the 2 megs version. It can\ndo 1280x1024x256 at 75Hz, 1152x900x256 at 80Hz, 1024x768x256 at 90Hz(!),\n1024x768x65536 at 75Hz. It can also do 640x480x16 mil. and\n800x600x16 bit at 90Hz, too bad I don't have such a high bandwidth \nmonitor like yours ;) ;) (most of those modes need a 78khz monitor,\notherwise you'll have to use a lower refresh rate)\n\n If you want more info. about the coming Graphite VL, you should\ngo to the IBM hardware section on Compuserve (IBMHW), in the\nvideo sig. There're several Hercules reps there that are very\nhelpful.", "Please Help if you can. Whenever I try to run windows useing the 16\nmillion color mode with the drivers supplyed with my Diamond Stelth 24x\nIt will lock up requireing a full system reset to break out. The drivers\nthat I have for windows are V.1.00 for windows 3.1 (which IS the version\nof windows I am useing)\n\nMy Setup\n---------\n386DX40 128KCach\n4 Megs of ram\n14\" SVGA touch Monitor non-interlaced\nAMI Bios\n\nAny and all help would be apreciated, The card seems to work fine in other\nmodes, I usually run windows in 800x600 mode and probs at all, so I am\nhopeing it is a driver and not a card problem.", "I recently got a file describing a library of rendering routines \ncalled SIPP (SImple Polygon Processor). Could anyone tell me where I can \nFTP the source code and which is the newest version around?\n Also, I've never used Renderman so I was wondering if Renderman \nis like SIPP? ie. a library of rendering routines which one uses to make \na program that creates the image...\n\n Thanks, Joe Tham\n", "Another objection occurred to me. There was a comment about how\nsupposedly there would only be one decode box, operated by the FBI.\nThis is flat ridiculous, and I don't believe it for a millisecond.\nEven *if* they in fact only build one (or two or some other small\nnumber) of these, that won't stop others from building one. Make\nit work like two Clipper-chip phones, one listening to each side\nof the recorded conversation. I'll have to have another look at\nthe specs posted so far, but offhand I didn't see anything that\nwould preclude this sort of thing.....", "\n\n\nThe IIIP has just been superseded by the 4M, which is the one I am using at\nwork. The quality of the print is execellent, beating 300 dpi printers hands\ndown. In Australia the price of the 4M is about comparable with that of the\nIII-series, so HP are trying to get people to buy the new one !!!", "Reduced Prices! \nI have a list of things forsale on behalf of my brother, who's moving (moved\nalready)\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tOffer:\n1) Black and Decker Duster Plus (Portable Hand Vaccum)\t\n \tpurchased for $32, \t\t\t\t\t $12\n\n2) SR-1000 Dual Cassette Portable Player, AM/FM\n5-Band graphics Equalizer, high speed dubing, Duo \nTape.Tape deck A, seems to have lost treble sound. \nBut, I bet it's fixable.\n\tpurchased for $80\t\t\t\t\t $25\n\n3)Monolux Zoom MicroScope, up to 1200X magnification\nMade in Japan, includes case and accessories\n\tpurchased for $50\t\t\t\t\t $20\n\n4)Sunbeam 1400 Hair Dryer, the dryer you put your \nhead under/into. You know, the ones you see in the salons.\n(Don't ask me why my bro had it)\n\tpurchased for $60\t\t\t\t $24\n\n5)Everylast Speed Bag, all leather. Brand new, never \nused\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t $10\n\n6)Osterizer Pusle Matic Blender, with 10 speeds \nand a cookbook, 5 years old\t\t\t\t\t $10\n\tpurchased for $50\n\n8)Binolux Binoculars . 7x35, extra wide angle\n525ft. at 1000yds. with case. very new.\t\t $20\n\n9)Proctor and Silex Spray,Steam and Dry Iron.\nvery new.\t\t\t\t\t\t\t $10\n\n\nAny questions, contact me thru e-mail and I will reply expeditously\nAnd always, S+H are not included, so please consider this.\n\nAnd lastly, I'm a very reasonable.Very Reasonable.", "Does anybody out there have or used to have an HD controller from\nPerstor System Inc. (which is out of business I believe)? My friend\nreceived an old PC which happens to have such a controller and I am\nhaving a hard time trying to add another HD to the card.\n\n\nI believe the controller is supposed to control MFM drives as RLL\ndrives?? \n\n\nHere the model info on the card, but any other similar model will\nprobably do.\n\n\n\nPerstor System Inc.\nModel: PS 180-16FN\nRev: 2.2 ECN 9-21\n\n\nI would appreciate your reply directly to my e-mail address below.\n\n\n\nThanks,\n\n\nRay (rngai@oracle.com)\n", "\nHaving thought about this, why don't you project the 2 lines onto the 2d\nplane formed by the lines. Do an intersection calculation in the plane in\n2D, where you're guaranteed a unique solution (unless they're parallel which\nwon't happen in this case), and then use parametric distance along the lines\nfrom the circle centres to determine the exact point of interest. This\nbypasses the messy error propogation required to do the calculation in 3d.\n\nHope I haven't put my foot in it again!\n\nsteve\n---", "I've got the same problem; I can't dig up any info on the jumper settings\non the hd 3.5\" drives.\n\nCan anyone recommend a reference book(s) on the subject, rather than a\n\"quick fix\" type answer?? I was going to start hooking up things and\nlogging the results, but the prospect of a ten second smoke test deters\nme...\n\nThanks, Kirk Cowen.", "I just had an idea. I'm not sure if its been done and I'm just\nremembering it unconsiously, but I thought that in dialog\nboxes and whatever in windowing systems, there should be a\nway to intuitivly set some things checked or unchecked or\nfilled in a certain way. My idea: tape. You know, like putting\na piece of tape over a light switch?\nJust an idea, if you like it, use it.\n", "Hi,\n\nI have the following software forsale:\n\nMicrosoft MS-DOS 5.0 3.5\"DD $15\n-- This is a good buy for those who don't need all the utils in DOS 6.0\n\nAccolade Hardball II 5.25\"DD $10\n-- Good arcade baseball game, graphics/sound are pretty good, has the\n ability to make schedules and edit player stats\n\nAccolade The Third Courier 5.25\"HD $5\n-- Adventure/Spy type game\n\nEGA Earl Weaver 2 3.5\"DD $15\n-- Good arcade/strategy type baseball game, you have ability to play\n for league play, i have MLB stats for 1990 and 1991\n\nEGA Stormovik SU25: Soviet Attack Fighter 3.5\"DD $10\n-- Good fighter simulation, various missions and levels of play\n\n Sierra Thexder FireHawk 3.5\" & 5.25\" $5\n-- Arcade shoot 'em up type game, nice music and sound effects\n\nVirgen Scrabble 3.5\" $5\n-- computer version of the popular board game\n\nI'm willing to negotiate on the prices, prices do not include shipping.\nShipping costs will be split 50/50. Drop me a line! :)\n", "Has anyone had experience with the new Greenleaf CommLib 4.0? I can't even\nget their demo winterm to run at 4800 baud without dropping characters.\n\ntnx, steve", "\nDon't even get hyped up. They are still accepting submissions from the\nmembers for various proposals of how to implement the standard.\n\nYou don't seem to realize that while v32bis was just an extension of\nv32 (which took years to pass, implement, and finally sell at a reasonable\nprice), v.fast requires all new technology (not just faster DSP chips, etc.)\nto achieve its performance.\n\nWait until next spring for the final ratification and modems coming shortly\nafter that.\n", ": I've started to look at some devices doing serial data transmission\n: over fairly decent distances in fairly noisy environments, and have\n: seen a variety of schemes for protecting the RS232 transceivers (and\n: the rest of the circuit) from transients on the serial lines. I'm\n: left wondering what is the best way of doing this? How necessary is\n: it?\n: [stuff deleted]\n: What is the wisdom on this out there?\n: \n: Ta,\n: \n: Martin.\n: \n: \nFrom what I know, protection is necessary, esp. if you plan to route\nthe cables into an unknown environment (out of your control). Things\nlike accidental shorts between the signal lines and power cables, or\neven lightning strikes are very likely and I don't think you like to see\nthe sight of your computer going up in smoke! [Even ethernet cards are\nprotected. I've looked at the one in my PC and the connector is\nprotected by a gas discharge tube!]\n\n{But if you plan to use the serial cables for internal routings (i.e. in\ncontrolled environments), it should be reasonably safe not to have\nthem.}\n\nSuggestion: look in the RS data book. They have several RS232\ntransceivers that have overvoltage protection. Among them include the\nLT1080, LT1081 and MAX250 and MAX251. The Maxims are suppose to be\nelectrically isolated ones but still need opto-isolators to work (don't\nask me why. I've never used them before.\n\nAnother alternative is an RS232 surge protector. Two are listed in the\nRS catalogue. If you need additional info (i.e. stock nos.), just e-mail\nme.", "I read in a recent Tidbits(171-2?) about the possibility of putting\na 68030 in a PB100. I am interested in doing so, but would like\nto know more about it. Does it involve just replacing the 68000 that\nis on the daughterboard, or does it involve getting a new daughter-\nboard. Also, would the 68030 be able to run QT with the PB100's\nscreen(not pretty I know, but possible?) And of course, what would\nthe damage be ($). Any info would be appreciated.\nThanks in advance. Jay Fogel\n\n", "I need to know where I can get a FAQ on Xwindows for MS-DOS machines.\nThe usual FAQ just gave me a name of a file called XServers-NonUNIX.txt.Z.\nwhich I cannot find anywhere.", "All are gone except 3 and 5. Go ahead - make me an offer I can't refuse!\n\n 1. Large padded Cordura bag SORRY, SOLD, AWAITING CHECK.\n 2. Small \"Nikon\" shoulder bag. SORRY, GONE.\n\n 3. Small \"Nikon\"* belt pouch. Khaki. Similar to an\n\t Army ammo pouch - belt clips, etc. Holds flash or small\n\t zoom, lens cleaner, etc. Great for your extra lens when you\n\t don't want to tote a shoulder bag. I think it can hold a\n\t small Walkman and some tapes. $5. + $1. postage.\n\n 4. Domke belt pouch ... SORRY, GONE.\n\n 5. Coast camera bag - tan, brown strap/trim. Main and front pocket,\n\t10\"x9x4.5 and 10x6.5x1.5 respectively. Can hold AF slr with small zoom\n\tplus flash or even an 8mm or compact-VHS video camcorder! Material\n\tlooks like Gore-Tex but I don't think it is. I think it can\n\talso hold your portable CD player with a bunch of discs, headphones,\n\tAC, etc. $15. + $3. postage.\n\nTERMS: Payment in advance by money order/bank check, or cash.\n\n /|/| /||)|/ /~ /\\| |\\|)[~|)/~ | Everyone's entitled to MY opinion.\n / | |/ ||\\|\\ \\_|\\/|_|/|)[_|\\\\_| | goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil\n========Imagination is more important than knowledge. - Albert Einstein=======\n\n\n\n\n", "Two-part question:\n\n1) What is Windows NT - a 'real' windows OS?\n\n2) This past weekend, a local 'hacker' radio show metioned a new product\n from Microsoft called 'Chicago' if I recall. Anyone know what this is?\n\nThat is it -\n\nThanks a heap.\n\n- Alan\n", "\n\nNo, the 6551A is able to operate in a 2 MHz system, the 6551 can only\ntake 1 MHz without problems.\n\nIf you see a 8551 made by MOS or CSG, take it, its a 6551A.\n\n\nI know no fixed version of the 6551. There are different possibilities\nto work around this bug. The easiest is to tie _CTS to GND and\nuse _DSR or _DCD as _CTS. It should be easy to fix the software,\n_DSR is bit 6 and DCD ist bit 5 of the Status Register (Read 6551\nwith RS1 = low and RS0 = high).\n\nUsing the _CTS-line can lead into big trouble. The 6551 _instantly_\nstops transmission if _CTS goes high. This means, that you may\nget only a half byte...\n\nGerrit\n", "I have a new MR535 Mitsubishi hard drive (RLL or MFM) that has been\nin storage and will not format. I suspected that the switch settings\nmay have been moved in the movement of the drive from one place to\nanother. Does anyone have the switch settings for this drive. It has\nJ1 SW1 with 6 switches and SW2 has 8 switches. SW2 is the one that \nselects the drive number. If you have info on this drive, or know \na number I can call to configure it, please, please let me know by\nemail. It has 977 cyl 5 heads and I think is type 17. \n\nThanks in advance!\n\nChuck Browning", "\nActually, the 295 is for the 33 MHz PowerCard, not the Universal Powercache.\nThe 33 MHz Universal Powercache with FPU and adaptor can be had for about\n$500 (still not a bad deal). I believe the Powercard is one generation \nolder than the Universal Powercache, and the one primary difference is that\nthe Powercard is machine specific while the Powercache can fit into many\nMacs with the proper adaptor. Both cards are 68030 based.\n\nI'm not sure if the hardware or software with the Powercard is otherwise \ndifferent from the Powercache (perhaps someone could enlighten me?).\n\nI would also add that I called River Computer the other night and these\nPowercards were going very fast.", "\nIt's a request to personal users; it's a requirement for commercial,\ngovernment, and institutional users.\n\nSomeone else asked whether the authors of the JPEG and TIFF software had\ngiven permission to incorporate their code into a commercial product. I\nfound the following in jpeg/README:\n\n We specifically permit and encourage the use of this software as the\n basis of commercial products, provided that all warranty or liability\n claims are assumed by the product vendor.\n\nand the following in tiff/Copyright:\n\n Permission to use, copy, modify, distribute, and sell this software and\n its documentation for any purpose is hereby granted without fee, ...\n\nLooks like he's OK on that account.\n-- \nBarry Margolin\nSystem Manager, Thinking Machines Corp.", "I have the following items for sale. \nBuyer pays the shipping costs. \nHardware is new and unused unless marked otherwise. \nAll software includes original disks and manuals. \nNo reasonable offers refused.\nSend offers/questions to cpc3@po.cwru.edu\n\nHardware\n---------\nHercules Graphics Card - mono graphics and printer ports\nHercules Color Card - color graphics and printer ports\nTeac 1.2MB 5.25\" floppy drive - doesn't work, sold as is for reapir or\nparts\nIBM ASYNC card - serial card for PC/XT/AT machines, comes with support\nsoftware\nKraft KC10 joystick - works with PC compatibles and Apple II series (not\nMac)\n360K 5.25\" floppy disks - over 200 bulk-grade disks\n2 floppy disk storage boxes - each holds 60 5.25\" disks, one has a lock\non it\n\nSoftware\n---------\nMicrosoft Macro Assembler 5.0 and 5.1 update - large manual and tutorial\nincluded\nSideways 3.0 - rotates wide spreadsheets 90 degrees to print on 1 page\n\nGames\n------\nWolfPack - WWII submarine simultaion\nSpace Station Oblivion - arcade-style game similar to Spectre\nDemon Stalkers - dungeon game, like Gauntlet\nZork II, Moonmist, Ballyhoo - Infocom adventure/mystery games\nJack Nicklaus' Unlimited Golf and Course Design - excellent golf game\nWar In Middle Earth - similar to D&D games, based on Tolkien's \"The\nHobbit\"\nSargon 4 - excellent chess game, play against someone or against computer\nSilent Service II - submarine simulation\n", "\nA professor of mine once said \"The difference between a Computer Engineer and\na Computer Scientist is about $5000\" meaning the Engineer makes $5000 more than\nthe CS.\nSeriously though the main difference is that most CS people write programs that\npeople will use, i.e. database, graphics, word processors, etc., while an\nengineer writes for machines or control systems, i.e. the \"computer\" in your\ncar, a flight control system, computer controled devices, etc. In other words\nCS writes SOFTWARE while CSE writes FIRMWARE. \nThese are generalizations but for the most part that is what the difference is.", "\nI had one and on three different motherboards it didn't work with NT and\nin some cases DOS. I sent mine back, but it is my understanding that\non some systems such as Micronics motherboards it is necessary to\nshut off the internal cache on the 486 to have it work.\n\nI've yet to hear from someone running a 34F on any motherboard with\nNT without shutting off the cache.\n\nIf you get one my advise it to be very sure you can return it first.", "Nikkor 70-210 AF for immediate sale. Excellent condition.", "I need to know the jumper settings for master and/or slave operation on\na Maxtor 7080AT (80MB IDE) hard disk.\n\nThanks in advance.\n", "Hi folks,\n\nsubject line says it all: which accelerators can you recommend for\na Mac LC II? Sorry, if this a FAQ.\n\ncheers ", "Can anybody tell me anything about the availibility of non-Roman fonts\nfor X-Windows? Especially Unicode and/or han idiographic fonts.\n\nAlso, how about conversion tools for getting PC/Macintosh fonts into a\nformat suitable for X? I would assume it is not too difficult for\nbitmap fonts.\n\nThe FAQ's for this group and comp.fonts are not very helpful on these\nquestions. ", "I just read an article in another group that mentions this. I have\nnever heard of the VCPI memory standard. Can someone explain what \nthis is??? Thanks\n", "If you want slow LED flash rates, adjustable by switches (or by a\n4066/4016 digitally controlled switch), I suggest looking at a 555\noscillator chip. They cost ~$1 at Radio Shack (much cheaper in\nquantity at quality places), and you will be able to find good info\nabout simple circuits in a 555 oscialltor notebook (I think Forest\nMims has one at Radio Shack). You'll have to toy with\nresistor/capacitor values OR you can use your head with a little math\nto get the right frequencies. Any engineer worth his salt, can make a\n555 osciallator... It's in the book, and left up to you to see (I hate\ndoing ASCII circuit graphics). The 555 can accurately go from a few Hz\nto about 500 KHz (I think).\n\nAbout the Tape Recorder gizmo, you could alter a stereo tape deck to\nuse one channel as a DATA line (for flashing LED), and one as audio\nline (for voice or music). This would eliminate a lot of noise.\n\nThe data line is probably most easily done\nby some kind of PLL or bandpass filter (using just an op-amp). The 565\nchip is a good PLL, and not hard to work with. However if you nothing\nabout how a PLL works, I suggest you don't try this. Op-Amp\ninformation can also be found in the Forest Mims Radio Shack\ninfo-booklets, and the popular 741 op-amp is a snap to work with.\nSetting frequency and bandpass filter values are not so easy, so I\nwould suggest the 555 method firstmost... I have no idea what this is\ngoing into, so I am really generalizing...\n\nAs for manufacturing techniques, if you're only goofing with it, I\nsuggest you breadboard the thing... No need to solder. Wire-wrap would\nbe the next, more permanent step. And lastly, soldering/PCB making.\nHope that clears things......", "\nNec Toshiba and Sony (Apple) nearly deliver the same speed.\nAs apples prices are very low (compared to there RAM SIMMS)\nYou should buy what is inexpencive. But think of Driver revisions.\nIt is easier to get driver kits from Apple than from every other\nmanufacturer\n\nChristian Bauer", "VHS movie for sale.\n\nDance with Wovies\t($12.00)\n\nThe tape is new and just open, buyer pay shipping cost.\nIf you are interested, please send your offer to\nkoutd@hirama.hiram.edu\n\nthanks,", "\n\n\n\nThe docs say that it's a SCSI Manager bug, if this changes things at all...", "bm967@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David Kantrowitz) writes ...\n\nSure. Buy a switch box and a multisync monitor. I have just that\narrangement on my desk and it works fine.\n", "*** On 04-20-93 21:56, Tim King had the unmitigated gall to say this:\n\n TK> accidentally discovered that if a have a floppy from ONE particular\n TK> box of diskettets in the A drive when I boot up, rather than getting\n TK> the \"Non-system diskette\" message, the machine hangs and the CMOS\n TK> gets overwritten (luckily, Gateway sends a print of the standard\n\nJust a wild thought here, but how about this: there is a small boot program\non every formatted diskette, whether or not it contains system files. It is\nthis small program that prints the \"Non-System Disk\" error, not DOS. If\nthis program tries to transfer control to a BIOS location that is\nnonstandard on the Gateway, then it could clear the BIOS.\n\nI don't think that the BIOS is overwritten, there is usually a small routine\nto clear the CMOS area, in case an invalid configuration prevents the\nmachine from booting. I think that the boot code on the Fuji disks may\ninadvertantly call this routine.\n\nJust a thought.\n\n... Don't hit me, Mr. Moderator... I'll go back on topic... I swear!\n--- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10\n ", "\nATM will do nothing for your TrueType fonts. If your TrueType fonts are\nsufficient for your needs, don't run ATM. I have a lot of fonts that I can\ninstall either as Type-1 PostScript (under ATM) or as TrueType. I have\nnoticed that:\n\n 1.\tTrueType font files are at least 1/3 larger than their Type-1\n\tequivalents. If you are using a disk compressor, though, be aware\n\tthat TrueType fonts will compress, whereas Type-1 fonts will not\n\t(they are encrypted).\n\n 2.\tWith a 300 dpi laser printer, the \"artificial bold\" version of a\n\tTrueType font is indistingishable from the original, forcing me to\n\tinstall the actual bold (and bold-italic, etc.) variants if I want\n\tto use them. Type-1 PostScript fonts under ATM generate a visually\n\tdistinct bold variant from the base font. I realize that the\n\tartificial bold font that ATM generates is aesthetically inferior\n\tto the hand-generated bold TrueType variant, but it is sufficient\n\tfor my needs, and not having to install bold variants saves me 50%\n\ton disk space (uncompressed).\n", "\n\n\n\nWe're looking at a series of chips by WSI, the PSD3xx series. They have\n_mega_ address decoding logic on them, various ROM sizes (upto 1Mbit),\nvarious RAM sizes (upto 16 K), and 19 I/O ports which can be chip select\nlines, I/O or the buffered address lines.\n\nCute chip, 44 pin PLCC package.\n\nSecond sourcing may be a problem though :-(\n", "Would someone be willing to explain to me the 486DX 50MHz is not more\npopular than it is? I would think it would be just as fast, if not \nfaster than the 486DX 66MHz for certian applications. Plus, a 50MHz \nmotherboard would seem better if you had any plans on upgrading the\nchip in the future. I must be missing something, since everyone is \nbuying the DX2 66... Many adds don't even mention the DX 50.", "\nHave you set the foreground and background colors in w_gc1 to \nsomething other than 0 and 1? The WhitePixel and BlackPixel macros\non your server may not return values suitable for depth 1 drawables.\n\n\n\nAre you sure that the fifth plane of the data isn't all the same? You could\nhave different pixel values in the image, but the fifth plane (0x10 == 16)\nmight all be the same value?\n\n\n\n\nIf you just want to see the plane of data and want better performance,\ndon't use ClipMasks, just use pixmap1 as the stipple in a stippled\nrectangle fill. Many servers are very stupid about handling complex\nclip lists, and turn a bitmap clip region into hundreds and hundreds of\nlittle clipping rectangles, and clips every drawing primitive against every\none of these little triangles.\n\n\nActually, I must also ask the FAQ's #1 most popular reason why graphics\ndon't show up: do you wait for an expose event before drawing your\nrectangle?\n\n\n", "Tcpview is the result of several problems we had at UW. We have several\nNetwork General Sniffers which are heavily used to help debug problems on\nseveral hundred subnets. These are good tools, but they are 1) heavy, \n2) hard to find when you need one, 3) limited in their software expandibility,\n4) difficult to use to upload data for analysis, 5) cannot be remotely\noperated, and 6) cannot resolve names with DNS, requiring much manual \nmanipulation of the name table. We also sometimes use tcpdump, but we found \nit 1) too difficult for most people, 2) did not have enough information for\nmany protocols, 3) could not be used interactively, 4) could not handle\nTCP streams and 5) could not read Sniffer files. However, tcpdump did do\na reasonable job of decoding a large number of protocols, and could be easily\nmodified. Tcpview is an attempt to resolve these problems\nby adding a Motif interface to tcpdump and expanding its features.\n\nTcpview has been tested on a DECstation 5000 and Sun 4 under Ultrix 4.2 and\nSunOS 4.1 respectively. It should work on the same systems as tcpdump.\nIt compiles with cc and gcc on the DEC and Sun. To build tcpview you will\nneed Motif 1.1 or better.\n\nThe following files are available for anonymous ftp from \nftp.cac.washington.edu in /pub/networking\n\ntcpview-1.0.tar.Z\ttcpview and tcpdump source code\ntcpview-1.0.sun.tar.Z\tSun4 binaries\ntcpview-1.0.dec.tar.Z\tDEC Mips Ultrix 4.2 binaries\n\nWhat tcpview adds to tcpdump:\n- easier interface\n- enhanced protocol decoding\n- hex display of frame\n- capture based on time, number of frames, or user interrupt\n- can show ethernet addresses with manufacturer's name\n- ethernet address host table\n- can easily follow a stream, highlighting out-of-order frames\n- can send TCP data to an external file or filter for additional\n\tprocessing.\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nCHANGES TO TCPDUMP 2.2.1\n\nNew features:\n\nNow reads and writes Network General Sniffer files. When used with '-r', the \nfile type will be automatically detected.\n\nCan now read in (and use) an SNMP MIB file.\n\nThe hex format has been changed.\n\nNew time options have been added.\n\nOptions were added to allow viewing and processing of the data in TCP packets.\n\nBugs were fixed in the relative TCP sequence numbers. (-S flag)\n\nNew flags:\n-R\tread Sniffer file. Not usually needed, except for reading from stdin\n-ttt\tprints delta times\n-tttt\tprints times relative to the first frame\n-W\twrite a Sniffer save file (use with -w)\n-x\tprint frame (minus link-level header) in hexdump format. \n\tSample output:\n\n16:36:23.349851 jeff.cac.washington.edu.1285 > nic.funet.fi.ftp: S 0:0(0) win 16384\n 0000 45 00 00 28 8a 98 00 00 3c 06 7c 9c 80 5f 70 02 | E..(....<.|.._p.\n 0010 80 d6 06 64 05 05 00 15 5b 19 4a 00 00 00 00 00 | ...d....[.J.....\n 0020 50 02 40 00 4e 13 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 | P.@.N.........\n\n-X\tprint TCP data in hexdump format (used with -Z)\n-z\twrite TCP data to stdout (use with -t to eliminate timestamp)\n-Z\twrite frames and TCP data to stdout\n\n\nMartin M. Hunt\nmartinh@cac.washington.edu\nNetworks & Distributed Computing\nUniversity of Washington\n\n\n\n\n\n\n--\n", "Hi all,\ncould someone please tell me if there are drivers for windows 3.1 for\nthe new soundblaster 2.0. Or will the 1.5 drivers be sufficient?\nI would be appreciate any info.", ": \n: Hams can legally run up to 1500 watts. It is very unlikely, however,\n: that a ham would be running that kind of power from a car. Ham rigs\n: \n: Not possible either. You'd need about a 300 amp alternator for\n: just the amplifier. I can just see it. You need to slow\n: down on a downgrade, so you hit the push to talk button.\n\nWell - 100+ amps anyway. Transmissions are generally for a short interval.\nThe battery would supply the rest. Of course, if you transmitted too much,\nyou would run the battery down.\n\nIt really would not be that much of a brake. Even at 50% efficiency, 1500\nwatts would only consume 4 horsepower.", "Does anyone have any information/advice on large color monitors\n(17\"-21\") to use with a 486 system running X server software?\nI maining looking for quality information and price, but all\ninformation is welcomed. \n\nThanks,\nDavid", "2-gigabyte Fujitsu 5.25\" disk drive\ninternal drive, model M26525A\n(uses either a SCSI or EDI interface on your disk controller card)\nbrand new, still in box, never used\n\n only $1800 (compare to $2400 in cheapest mail-order catalogs)", "How is the CMOS backed-up? Dry cell batteries or ni-cad cell?\n\nYour batteries may be dead.", "\n\n\n\nI have the same problem and was about to post this....\n\nHello duo owners (and Apple technical people :-)\n \nI have a new duo 230 which appears to have a problem waking up from\nsleep when running on battery power. When woken (usually for the second\ntime) after sleeping, the wake fails and the screen appears with a\ncorrupted image of broken horizontal lines and control can only be\nrecovered with control-command-poweron or the reset key at the back of\nthe machine. The problem occurs even when the system is stock standard\n(no extensions, no virtual memory, a fully charged new battery, system 7.1\netc). I have not had the problem when the machine is plugged in to AC.\nI've checked that the battery is properly seated (it appears to be fine).\n \nWhat's going on here ? Anyone else had this problem ? Is it software or\nhardware ? \n \nIf you have a duo 230 and a bit of time, try repeatedly sleeping and\nwaking the machine on battery power and let me know if you see the same\nbehaviour (and let Apple know too !).\n \nMany thanks to anyone who can clear this one up for me.\n \nBruce\n\n\n\n\n", "\nPick up a copy of PC Magazine or Byte, and look in the classifieds and\nsmall-print ads in the back. There are a handful of shops that specialize\nin BIOS upgrades.\n\n", "\n: I am looking for a package that implements standard\n: image processing functions (reading/writing from\n: standard formats), clipping, zoom, etc. implemented\n: under X. Both public domain and private packages\n: are of interest. The particular application area I\n: have in mind is medical imaging, but a package meant\n: for a more general context would be acceptable.\n\n: Please reply to me; I will summarize on the net if\n: there is general interest.\n\n: - prateek mishra\n: mishra@sbcs.sunysb.edu \n", "Doesn't Motorola AMCU have something on the BBS yet? (512-891-3733)\n", "I understood that there are two methods to connect application code to widgets:\n\n callbacks and actions\n\nThe problem I face now is that I have a quite long piece of application code\nthat performs a lot of drawing into a window. I want to connect this to a\nwidget. No problem so far. I could use a callback function or an action to do this, processing any events afterwards.\n\nBut because the drawing takes some while, I want the application code sequence\nto be able to be interrupted by events. Then I want to handle the events\nand resume with processing the application code at the point it was\ninterrupted.\nIt seems to me that this isn't possible, but how can I give the user the\nimpression that his inputs are immediately processed ?\n\nHas anybody an idea?\n\nPlease answer via e-mail.\n\nThanks in advance.\n\nSoenke\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nSoenke Voss Faculty of Economics\nsoenke@wiwi12.uni-bielefeld.de University of Bielefeld\n W-4800 Bielefeld 1\n Germany\n\nThe only difference between me and a madman is\nthat I am not mad ! (Salvador Dali)", "\n\nAn Easy way to solve the problem is to use two op-amps to form the\nbalanced low-Z output, but this solution does not provide any\ngalvanic isolation between keyboard (or whatever plugged) and\nmixer. If no tight requiremets are demanded and some hum, snap,\ncrackle and pop sounds (formed by ground loops) can be tolerated,\nthe op-amp solution is just what you are looking for! (It is\ncheap...somewhat $10/DI-box).\nNot sure, but Craig Anderton did introduce one DI-box project\nin Guitar Player mag years ago (transformerless).....\n\n\nHope this helps. Email, if more details wanted....\n\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\nHeikki Paananen heke@stekt.oulu.fi\nThe University of Oulu \nDepartment of electrical engineering -Just a student\nFinland", ": Hi!\n: \t\n: Is it possible through either pin configuration or through software\n: programming to change the IP numbers on an ethernet card?\n: \t\n: Thanks in Advance!\n: \n: -- \n: =-Dave *Tigger!*\n: \n: djohnson@moose.uvm.edu 'Tiggers are wonderful things!'\n: Dave C Johnson\n\nI think you mean the ethernet numbers. The 8 byte ethernet id is the unique\nElectronic Serial Number (ESN) assigned to each ethernet board in existence.\nThis is a \"physical layer\" concept. The IP address is a higher layer protocol.\nThe analogy to telephone service is the IP address is your phone number, while\nthe particular wire pair in the cable on the pole has some (unknown to you or\nI) physical identification scheme (number).\n\nBut to answer your question (assuming you indeed meant the Ethernet number)\nit is not supposed to be possible to change the number. Of course the\nmanufacturer can always retro-fit a board, but there could hardly be a\nreason to ever do that.\n\nIf your question is actually referring to the IP address, it is most definetly\nchangable. But it is strictly software.", "greetings..\nI'm a novice in messing comp. hardware.\nMy original IDE HD is a 42MB Western Digital which came with the system\nwhen I bought it. And I just got a 213MB IDE HD Maxtor that I wanted to\nadd as a slave drive. I did change the jumper settings on 213A Maxtor to\nconfigure it as slave drv, but I didn't change anything on my 42M Western\nDig, since I didn't have any doc. on it. And as I predicted, It just beeped\nand gave me an error message about HDD controller.\nSo, I had to take my 42M off & install my 213A to be my only HD.\n \nany help on this matter would be much appreciated.\n(before I trashed my 42MB)\n \nThankx much", "Keywords: \n\n All items were bought in August 1992. They are undamaged and like\nnew. If you are interested in the following, please send e-mail to\nIO20648 on the main frame or car@gandalf.\n\n Queen size box spring and mattress $200\n\n Queen size pine headboard $35\n \n Sofa- slate blue-three pillows-6 foot seating area- $200\n \n 4 drawer chest- $20\n \n 3 drawer chest- $20\n\n Small kitchen table and four chairs $70\n\n\n Thanks", "\n[deletions]\n\n\nSounds like it is an SMD interface to me, not being at work now\nto actually count pins. there are two varients, SMD and\nSMDC (I think), only minor differences between them. Widely used\nprior to the advent of SCSI for large drives (or all drives) on minis\n(and mainframes(?) no experience on those).", "\n\nThe NASM photo archives are open to the public. All (or almost all)\nstill pictures in the collection are available for viewing, but I\ndon't know about films. At least it might be worth a try. I'm not\nsure if appointments are necessary, but I think not.\n\nGood luck, and let us know what you find.", "\tI heard that there is a VESA driver for the XGA-2 card available on \ncompuserve. I just got this card, and I am wondering if this driver is \navailable on a FTP site anywhere. My news service has beeen erratic lately so\nplease E-Mail me at:\n\t\t\t\twalsh@stolaf.edu\n\tThanks in advance. \n", ": Could some one tell me what:\n\n: Phar Lap err 35: The 386 chip is currently executing in virtual\n: 8086 mode under the control\n: of another program. You must turn off this other program in order\n: to use 386|DOS-Extender to run in protected mode.\n\n: means.\n\n: This shows up on a CompuAdd Express 486-33 whenever a program \n: such as Matlab or Maple is run. It has been tried under dr-dos\n: 6.0, msdos 5.0, and 4dos 4.01. There is nothing, nada, in memory.\n: Nothing appears on a virus check.\n\n: Anybody?\n\n: -- \n: spectre@jupiter.nmt.edu spectre@cyborg1.nmt.edu\n: \"This world? And everything in it? *Illusions*, Richard! Every bit\n: of it *illusions!* *Do you understand that?*\" -- Donald Shimoda\n\n\nI used to get this problem with AutoCad when using the NOEMS switch with \nEMM386.EXE in DOS 5.0. If you allocate some ram to EMM386 the problem \nshould go away.", "Does anybody have an X server for NT that they're willing to share files\nor experiences?", "\n\n\nOr use a SunOS 4.1.1 ld.", "\tYes, it is. It is available at ftp.ctr.columbia.edu, probably\nin pub/xkernel. \n\n\tIn response to the earlier gentlemans question, you could\ntheoretically recompile xkernel on a sun4. The binaries available are\nfor the sun3/50, but the author says it could be used on most\narchitectures, and he does have a 'do-it-yourself' type distribution.\n\n\tWe use Xkernel for about 7 machines here. email me if you\nhave any questions I can help you with...", "\nTo windows 3.0, yes.\n\n\nIt's definitely dated - I used OS/2 1.21, & alpha 2.0 (when msft was\ndeveloping it...)\n\n\nI preferred Windows 3.1 because it was more stable & faster than 3.0,\nbut could still run more apps than OS/2 (again I made this choice\nbefore 2.0 was released).\n\n\nNo, I've seen no such data.\n\n\nhee hee. good one ;> ;>\n\n\n...and one that I've encountered as well...\n\n\nHmm. Are you sure? I'm speaking from my own experience as an\nOS/2 _user_. Certainly people in, say, the NT marketing group \nwould be in a unique position to present the results of, say,\nresearch on upcoming NT and OS/2 apps (vs Windows and MS-DOS apps).\nPart of my point was that just cause one works at microsoft does \nnot mean one has access to such data (if it exists).\n\n\nI will confess to, at times, attacking the poster. \n\n\nAgain, my point was that not all microsofties are here to \"sell\" \nreaders on our products (which would conflict with the \"no-ads\" \nphilosophy of usenet). Nor do we necessarily have access to info\nthat others have.\n\nI also get tired of people assuming that microsofties are, like,\nmembers of the BORG.\n\n-jen\n\n-- ", "\nNow there's a good idea ! All you need is 20 amps DC for a few minutes, and\na good (wetware) memory (was I using wp or autocad or ...). I thought of the\nsame idea myself a few days ago. I've got a fairly new car battery that I take\nalong in my 4x4 when I go camping, and it sits around useless when I'm home.\nI wish I could get a batteryless ups to use it with, or use it with a heavy\nduty 5-volt regulator to supply the PC. But I guess you'd need -5v and -12v \n(and +12) too (2 more batteries ?).\n\nAn alternative would be to leave a 40 AMP battery charger hooked up to the battery\nand run a 12vdc to 110vac converter running all the time, and when the power\ngoes out, voi-la ! the 110vac converter keeps on running off the battery ! and\nthen I could take the 110vac converter and my computer on the camping trips !-)\n\n", "I own an 80386sx, 16Mhz, 2Mb ram machine and am finding it too slow for\ncertain games such as X-wing. I was in a Computer store there the other\nday and saw a series of Gamecards which claim to speed up your machine\nto up to 80Mhz! I was wondering if anyone out there who has a similar\nmachine had bought one or seen one of these Gamecards and whether or not\nthey do actually work!\n\tAny help here would be much appreciated,\n\t\tThanks in advance,\n\t\t\tGreg.\n\n--", "Sony D-22 portable Diskman forsale\n \n Good condition, flawless.\n \n Costomer AC adapter : 6v DC power supply ( tested 9v DC)\n \n * The factory adapter was tested 12v DC (AC 110v input) at the \n time I bought it three years ago. When using it, a lot of heat \n was generated inside the CD machine. Of course I wouldn't use \n it to risk this baby's life. Maybe that's why so many owners \n always complain about their portable machine going kaput after \n a short time usage. \n\n * 9v DC factory suggested\n \n LED display\n", "\nThere is? Then why does the documentation say:\n\n}Commercial, government, and institutional users MUST register their\n}copies of XV, for the exceedingly REASONABLE price of just $25 per\n}workstation/X terminal.\n\nIt doesn't sound like a \"voluntary donation\" to me.\n\n--Dave", "\n\nThe Adaptec 1540-series use bus mastering. This means that the CPU\ndoesn't sit waiting for data bytes, it can go off and do other\ncomputing - if you have an advanced multi-tasking OS, that is. DOS\njust sits and waits anyway.\n\n\nWhy don't you start with the spec-sheet of the ISA bus first? :-) IDE\nwas designed to plug into ISA virtually unaided - in essence, IDE *is*\nISA, on a ribbon cable. Therefore it's specs are the same as ISA -\n8MHz clock, 16 bit width, 5MB/sec.\n\nThis is why I've concluded that IDE on VL-bus is a waste of a fast\nslot. The card's job would to slow the VL-bus transactions to ISA\nspeed. Heck, that's what ISA slots do - I'll just use one of those\ninstead.", "OK, with all the discussion about observed playback speeds with QuickTime,\nthe effects of scaling and so on, I thought I'd do some more tests.\n\nFirst of all, I felt that my original speed test was perhaps less than\nrealistic. The movie I had been using only had 18 frames in it (it was a\nversion of the very first movie I created with the Compact Video compressor).\nI decided something a little longer would give closer to real-world results\n(for better or for worse).\n\nI pulled out a copy of \"2001: A Space Odyssey\" that I had recorded off TV\na while back. About fifteen minutes into the movie, there's a sequence where\nthe Earth shuttle is approaching the space station. Specifically, I digitized\na portion of about 30 seconds' duration, zooming in on the rotating space\nstation. I figured this would give a reasonable amount of movement between\nframes. To increase the differences between frames, I digitized it at only\n5 frames per second, to give a total of 171 frames.\n\nI captured the raw footage at a resolution of 384*288 pixels with the Spigot\ncard in my Centris 650 (quarter-size resolution from a PAL source). I then\nimported it into Premiere and put it through the Compact Video compressor,\nkeeping the 5 fps frame rate. I created two versions of the movie: one scaled\nto 320*240 resolution, the other at 160*120 resolution. I used the default\n\"2.00\" quality setting in Premiere 2.0.1, and specified a key frame every ten\nframes.\n\nI then ran the 320*240 movie through the same \"Raw Speed Test\" program I used\nfor the results I'd been reporting earlier.\n\nResult: a playback rate of over 45 frames per second.\n\nThat's right, I was getting a much higher result than with that first short\ntest movie. Just for fun, I copied the 320*240 movie to my external hard\ndisk (a Quantum LP105S), and ran it from there. This time the playback rate\nwas only about 35 frames per second. Obviously the 230MB internal hard disk\n(also a Quantum) is a significant contributor to the speed of playback.\n\nI modified my speed test program to allow the specification of optional\nscaling factors, and tried playing back the 160*120 movie scaled to 320*240\nsize. This time the playback speed was over 60 fps. Clearly, the poster who\nobserved poor performance on scaled playback was seeing QuickTime 1.0 in\naction, not 1.5. I'd try my tests with QuickTime 1.0, but I don't think it's\nentirely compatible with my Centris and System 7.1...\n\nUnscaled, the playback rate for the 160*120 movie was over 100 fps.\n\nThe other thing I tried was saving versions of the 320*240 movie with\n\"preferred\" playback rates greater than 1.0, and seeing how well they played\nfrom within MoviePlayer (ie with QuickTime's normal synchronized playback).\nA preferred rate of 9.0 (=> 45 fps) didn't work too well: the playback was\nvery jerky. Compare this with the raw speed test, which achieved 45 fps with\nease. I can't believe that QuickTime's synchronization code would add this\nmuch overhead: I think the slowdown was coming from the Mac system's task\nswitching.\n\nA preferred rate of 7.0 (=> 35 fps) seemed to work fine: I couldn't see\nany evidence of stutter. At 8.0 (=> 40 fps) I *think* I could see slight\nstutter, but with four key frames every second, it was hard to tell.\n\nI guess I could try recreating the movies with a longer interval between the\nkey frames, to make the stutter more noticeable. Of course, this will also\nimprove the compression slightly, which should speed up the playback performance\neven more...", " > Hi there,\n > Can anyone tell me where it is possible to purchase controls found\n > on most arcade style games. Many projects I am working on would\n > be greatly augmented if I could implement them. Thanx in advance.\n\n\nHAP controls just outside Chicago sells these. I don't remember which\nsuburb they are in. The prices are pretty reasonable and they are\neasy to hook up. I bought a new coin mechanism from them for $25.00\na couple of years ago.", "Below is the list of large (at least 18 inches diagonal) monochrome\nmonitors which Computer Shopper lists as PC compatible. I've omitted\nRadius because Radius states that they no longer support the PC.\n\nYou will notice that Nanao is the only one which supports a 31.5Khz\nhorizontal frequency, which is the frequency normally used by VGA cards\nat boot up. My guess is that all the other monitors come with their\nown graphics cards. I've left voice mail with Nanao asking them to\nsend me some literature, and will report back to the net after I've\nstudied it.\n\nThe prices given appear to be list prices and have little relationship\nto reality.\n\t\t\t\t\tKenneth Almquist\n\n\n\n--------------------------------- cut here ---------------------------------\n\nCornerstone Technology\n1990 Concourse Dr.\nSan Jose, CA 95131\n408-435-8900\n\n DualPage 120:\n Diagonal: 19 inches\n Max Resolution: 1600x1280\n Frequencies: 105Khz horizontal, 76Hz vertical\n Dimensions: 19x18x17 inches\n Price: $1495\n Compatible with: PC;PS/2\n\n DualPage 150:\n Diagonal: 19 inches\n Max Resolution: 2048x1538\n Frequencies: 105Khz horizontal, 67Hz vertical\n Dimensions: 19x18x17 inches\n Price: $1595\n Compatible with: PC;PS/2\n\n\nIkegami Electronics (U.S.A.), Inc.\n37 Brook Ave.\nMaywood, NJ 07670\n201-368-9171\n\n DM-2010AD:\n Diagonal: 20 inches\n Max Resolution: 1280x1024\n Frequencies: 48-64Khz horizontal, 59-80Hz vertical\n Price: $995\n Compatible with: PC\n\n\nImage Systems Corp.\n11595 K-Tel\nHopkins, NM 55343\n800-462-4370 or 612-935-1171\n\n M21LMAX:\n Diagonal: 21 inches\n Max Resolution: 2048x1536\n Frequencies: 48-108Khz horizontal, 60-80Hz vertical\n Dimensions: 17x20x19 inches\n Price: $1995\n Compatible with: PC;PS/2;Mac\n\n M21LV-65MAX:\n Diagonal: 21 inches\n Max Resolution: 1280x1024\n Frequencies: 15-65Khz horizontal, 55-90Hz vertical\n Price: $4695\n Compatible with: PC;PS/2;Mac\n\n M21PMAX :\n Diagonal: 21 inches\n Max Resolution: 1280x1664\n Frequencies: 48-108Khz horizontal, 60-80Hz vertical\n Dimensions: 19x15x17 inches\n Price: $2500\n Compatible with: PC;PS/2;Mac\n\n M24PMAX :\n Diagonal: 24 inches\n Max Resolution: 1280x1664\n Frequencies: 48-108Khz horizontal, 60-80Hz vertical\n Dimensions: 22x18x18 inches\n Price: $2600\n Compatible with: PC;PS/2;Mac\n\n\nNanao USA Corp.\n23535 Telo Ave.\nTorrence, CA 90505\n310-325-5202\n\n FlexScan 6500:\n Diagonal: 21 inches\n Max Resolution: 1664x1200\n Frequencies: 31.5;56-80Khz horizontal, 55-90Hz vertical\n Dimensions: 18x20x17 inches\n Price: $1989\n Compatible with: PC;PS/2;Mac\n\n\nRan-Ger Technologies, Inc.\n[Address unknown]\n\n The Genuis Model 1920M:\n Diagonal: 19 inches\n Max Resolution: 1280x1024\n Frequencies: 64Khz horizontal, 60Hz vertical\n Dimensions: 17x19x17 inches\n Price: $950\n Compatible with: PC\n\n\nSampo Corp. of America\nP. O. Box 105084\nAtlanta, GA 30348\n404-449-6220\n\n ImagePRO 120:\n Diagonal: 20 inches\n Max Resolution: 1600x1280\n Frequencies: 81Khz horizontal, 72Hz vertical\n Price: $1995\n Compatible with: PC\n\n OfficePRO IIe:\n Diagonal: 20 inches\n Max Resolution: 1280x1024\n Frequencies: 75Khz horizontal, 70Hz vertical\n Price: $1549\t(Advertized $999 pg. 390 April Shopper)\n Compatible with: PC\n\n\nSamsung Electronics America, Inc.\n[Address unknown. You could try\n\tSamsung Information Systems, Inc.\n\t3655 N. 1st. St.\n\tSan Joes, CA 95134\n\t408-434-5400]\n\n PageMaster 2 (MU9511A/AM):\n Diagonal: 20 inches\n Max Resolution: 1280x1024\n Frequencies: 66Khz horizontal, 63Hz vertical\n Dimensions: 18x18x15 inches\n Price: $899\n Compatible with: PC;Mac\n\n\nSigma Designs, Inc.\n47900 Bayside Pkwy.\nFreemont, CA 94583\n510-770-0100\n\n L-View:\n Diagonal: 19 inches\n Max Resolution: 1664x1200\n Frequencies: 75Khz horizontal, 60-92Hz vertical\n Dimensions: 18x19x17 inches\n Price: $1099\n Compatible with: PC;PS/2;Mac\n\n L-View Multimode:\n Diagonal: 19 inches\n Max Resolution: 1664x1200\n Frequencies: 75Khz horizontal, 60-92Hz vertical\n Dimensions: 18x19x17 inches\n Price: $1299\n Compatible with: PC;PS/2;Mac\n\n MultiMode 120:\n Diagonal: 19 inches\n Max Resolution: 1664x1200\n Frequencies: 94.7Khz horizontal, 76-116Hz vertical\n Dimensions: 18x19x17 inches\n Price: $1299 (min)\n Compatible with: PC", "\nFor some reason the name Grayhill springs to mind -- saw something\nlike that in a Grayhill catalog, along with options for custom printed\noverlays and a neat little electroluuminescent backing that would make\nthe whole shebang glow a nice shade of green ..\n\nmighty handy if you're trying to key a door combination in the dark\nand don't want to TURN ON THE &%#$!! LIGHT ..\n", "I'm in the market to upgrade my BIOS to a Phoenix 1.10 (got a new hard disk,\ndiscovered my BIOS doesn't have a \"type 47\") and I would like know where I\ncan purchase one of these things.\n\nI checked with the motherboard manufacturer (for the curious-- it's from\nMylex), and hearing the $60 figure prompted me to at least try to shop\naround...\n\nProblem is, I don't know where to shop around for something like this.\n\nI have heard that there's a BIOS speciality shop in the South Bay and it's\nbeen alleged that they advertise in the MicroTimes.\n\nDid find the MicroTimes, didn't find the ad or the shop.\n\nSo, can anybody help me out on this quest?\n\nTo anybody who replies to this-- Thanks in advance.", "Does anyone have a manual for an Artec 14\" NI monitor? I need the\nspecs. Thanks.\n\nRob Malouf\nmalouf@csli.stanford.edu\n", "Comments about \"who needs backup copies\"? and \"YOU do\" deleted....\n\nI'll toss in my 2 cents worth - I've begun to think that distribution\ndisks are made on some of the least reliable floppy disk stocks available.\nWe've been especially plagued by Borland's distribution disks. I'm \nlucky if I can install from them as many as 3 times before they crap \nout on me. So definitely, as a matter of course we ALWAYS make copies\nto do our installations with.\n", " \nwell, i have lots of experience with scanning in images and altering\nthem. as for changing them back into negatives, is that really possible?\nscanning and altering is no big deal. i don't know what types of\nfeatures you have in your version of photoshop. but the one i use\n(which, incidentally is on a quadra) has gallery effects and all types\nof other neato stuff.\ni'm just wondering why you would want to put your images back into\nnegatives, because once you print the image out-that's your print.\ndo you know what exactly your aim is in all of this? like, are you\ndoing this just for fun, for a business, to gain more computer\nknowledge, for a project you're working on....\notherwise, i guess i don't know if i'd be helping or not by posting info\non scanning and stuff.\nok? cool.\nseeya", "\nHere's the one that I used:\n\n# @(#)$Id: MH,v 1.7 90/04/06 09:44:31 sources Exp $\n# SCO 3.2.4v2\nbin\t/usr/local/bin\nbboards\ton\netc\t/usr/local/lib/mh\nmail\t/usr/spool/mail\nmailgroup\tmail\nldoptlibs\t-lsocket -lcrypt_i\nmandir\t/usr/man\ncc\tgcc\nccoptions\t-traditional\nmanuals\tnone\nchown\t/bin/chown\nmts\tsendmail/smtp\npop\ton\ndebug\toff\nsharedlib\toff\nsignal\tvoid\nsprintf int\noptions\tATTVIBUG BIND DPOP DUMB RENAME SOCKETS SYS5 SYS5DIR VSPRINTF FCNTL MHE MHRC MIME MORE='\"/usr/bin/more\"' POPSERVICE='\"pop3\"' RPATHS FOLDPROT='\"700\"' MSGPROT='\"600\"' SBACKUP='\"\\\\043\"' SHADOW\ncurses\t-lcurses -ltermcap\nranlib\toff\n\nYou may want to use a different locking style; my mailbox is mounted over NFS\nso I use fcntl-style locking.\n\nI also applied the following tweak to sbr/makedir.c:\n\n*** /src/public/mh-6.8/sbr/makedir.c Tue Dec 15 10:55:22 1992\n--- sbr/makedir.c Tue Apr 13 14:02:04 1993\n***************\n*** 24,30 ****\n #include \n #include \n #endif /* SYS5DIR */\n! #if defined(SVR4) || defined(ncr)\n #include \n #endif\n\n--- 24,31 ----\n #include \n #include \n #endif /* SYS5DIR */\n! #if defined(SVR4) || defined(ncr) || defined(SYS5)\n! #define MAXPATHLEN 1024\n #include \n #endif\n\nThat took care of everything but the man pages, which I installed by hand.\n\nGood luck,\n-- Steve", "The Microsoft Windows Device Driver Kit (DDK) documentation (blurb)\nstates that the user must separately acquire the Microsoft Windows\nSoftware Development Kit (SDK), which contains the Windows tools\nto build the drivers. If we are using Borland C++ with Application\nFrameworks, is this necessary? We also have a copy of the Microsoft\nPress Programmer's Reference Library (books) which normally comes\nwith the SDK, and Microsoft Macro Assembler 6.0. Why is the SDK\nneccessary for development of Virtual Device Drivers?", "] Hi there,\n] \n] \n] : \tI have 1s/1p/1g I/O card in my 386/40 PC. \n] : When I plug in wang modem at com4,it works. If I change\n] : it to com1- it doesn't. \n] : Program \"chkport\" gives diagnostics like \"possible com /irq\n] : conflict at com1\" (with mouse driver in memory).\n] \n] Since your IO-card only has one serial port - this should default to COM1 ? \n] Under MS-DOS, you can't share IRQ's - so you'll have to set either your modem\n] or your mouse to COM2 ... using different adresses and IRQ's.\n] When you set two 'devices' onto the same IRQ - like COM1 and COM3 (or 2 and 4)\n] - the 'latter' one will always win, i.e. if you have your mouse on COM1 and\n] start using your modem on COM3, your modem should work - but your mouse will\n] stop doing so, until reboot.\n] \n] It should be no problem, setting your modem to COM2 ? (you didn't write \n] anything about other peripherals ...)\n] \n] I hope, it helped a bit ....\t\t\t\t\tBy(t)e, Oli.\n] \n] \n\nHi,\n\nI'm kind of new at the pc stuff. My machine has 4 serial ports. Com 1 and3\nand 2 &4 share same IRQs. You mean I can't plug a mouse into Com1 and a modem\ninto com3 and expect both to work?\n\nIf Answer is NO, should I change IRQ's for com ports to be different? And,\ndoes it really matter which IRQ I set the ports too?\n\nPhil\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------\nPhil Hunt \"Wherever you go, there you are!\"\nHowtek, Inc.\t\t ", "\n\nDo you happen to know what a .SCO RIX file is?\n", "I am very interested in hearing from all of you who are using or implementing\n3-D interactive applications what types of 3-D widgets you would\nlike to have in your applications. \n\nA 3-D widget is usually located in the same scene as other 3-D objects of the \napplication. It may let you\n\n- manipulate application data, the camera,\n 3-D objects in the scene and so on, or\n- view the status of the application or 3-D objects\n via the widget's shape, color, position, orientation and so on, or\n- do whatever I missed but you think is possible.\n\nFor example, a manipulative widget can be virtual trackball (shown as a\npartially transparent sphere) super-imposed on the object to be rotated.\nA feedback widget can be a ruler with ends anchored to 2 objects. The length\nof the ruler changes as the objects move and a numeric value is shown on the\nruler indicating the distance. A widget can provide both manipulation and\nfeedback. For example, the ruler can be used to change the distance between\nthe objects along its own axis.\n\n\nPlease e-mail me or post your opinions on 3-D interaction. The information\nI gathered will help me design a 3-D UI construction tool.\nYour help is very much appreciated.", "\n >>So good that there isn't any diff whether or not ATManager is turned\n >>on or not. Is it worth it to run ATM at all? Especially with these\n >>better printer technologies ... and TT?\n >\n >There are some fonts that are only available as PS fonts. If you\n >have a PS font that you want to use, use ATM. Otherwise, it is\n >a waste of system resources.\n >\n\n -----Or, if you need to use a service bureau and they're only set up to use\n Type 1 fonts. From what I've heard (pure hearsay) the results of outputting\n TT fonts as Type 1 is _not_ as good as using high-quality Type 1 fonts in\n the first place.\n\nUnless you `print' to file with the correct resolution set for the\nfinal output device (image setter). A problem with TT fonts in Windows\nis that they do get converted to T1 format OK, and the hinting is even used\nwhile this is done, but the resulting T1 fonts are NOT hinted. The result\nis that they WILL work fine on a device of the resolution assumed by the\nprinter driver when the PS file is generated, but they will not look\ngood when printed at a different resolution. ", "I have the following Amiga software for sale:\n\nProVideo GOLD $50\n\nAmigaVision $25\n\nB.E.S.T. Plan It! $10\nspreadsheet\n(still in shrinkwrap)\n\nSuperBack $10\n(hard drive backup)\n\nCertificate Maker $10\n\n\nAdd s&h to the above and its yours...email me at the address listed below:\n", "\n\nIn four replies, I've seen no hard numbers, so here goes: For traces\non the outside (not inner layers), expect, in 1 oz copper, at 15 amps,\nthe following temperature rises versus width. This is from Sams'\n\"Reference Data for Engineers,\" seventh edition, Pg 5-30, which claims\nin turn to be from MIL-STD-275C...\n\n width Temp rise\n inches degrees C\n ------ ---------\n .125\t100\n .15\t 75\n .17\t 60\n .20\t 45\n .24\t 30\n .33\t 20\n\nAt 10 amps, the rise for the .125 width is only about 30 degrees.\nPower goes as square of the current, plus the copper resistance goes\nup as temperature goes up... Certainly .20\" (~5mm) traces should be \nample for what you want to do. And 2 ounce copper almost cuts the \nrequired width in half. (I'd do 2 oz at about 0.08\" width myself, \nI think...given that the _rated_ current is 10 amps and the 15 is\na transient or fault condition.)", "Is there such a document either in the Bookstores or possible\non an ftp site somewhere? Nothing really fancy, just something\nthat gives a listing of the available widgets, and the resources\nthat are pertinant to them, and what flavors of Motif they\noccur in.\n\n\n", "\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^\nHow do you do bus-mastering on the ISA bus?\n\n\nIf we're talking ISA (AT) bus here, then you can only have 1 DMA channel\nactive at any one time, presumably transferring data from a single device.\nSo even though you can have at least 7 devices on a SCSI bus, explain how\nall 7 of those devices can to DMA transfers through a single SCSI card\nto the ISA-AT bus at the same time.\n\nAlso, I'm still trying to track down a copy of IBM's AT reference book,\nbut from their PC technical manual (page 2-93):", "Does anyone have enough experience to report whether disk data\ncompression has any effect on the optimal disk sector interleave?\nOffhand, I expect that the time required to decompress disk data\nwould increase the optimum disk sector interleave.\n - Alan Hinds\n", "\nGee, nice of them to tell us. Like, how about a Gestalt response bit for\nthe\nGestaltPowerManagerAttributesFoodSpreadProduct selector? Well, at least\nnow I know why it doesn't work (I assume; I 'm using a PB 145).", "Panasonic KX-T3000H, Combo black cordless & speaker phone all in one.\n new- $160, now- $100 + shipping OBO.\n \nCurtis Mathes VHS VCR Remote included and it works with universal remotes.\n Works great but I replaced it with a Stereo VCR.\n paid $300 years ago, will sell for $125 delivered OBO.\n \nRadio Shack stereo amp. 2 inputs, tone, and left and right volume. Speakers\n not included. $20 plus shipping.\n \nIf you are interested in either of the above mail me at\n radley@gibbs.out.unc.edu.", "\nA program called Mac-ette allows you to read Mac 3.5\"\nhigh-density disks on a DOS machine. You can get the program from\nsimtel-20. I'm not sure of the directory location.\n\n\n", "TO: saz@hook.corp.mot.com\n\n\nSZ>Does anybody know of a program that converts .GIF files to .BMP files\nSZ>and if so, where can I ftp it from? Any help would be greatly\nSZ>appreciated.\n\n Sure... A GREAT shareware program is Graphic Workshop (the newest\n version is 6.1). Although I don't know where you can ftp it from. It\n also converts to about 15 other formats, and does MANY other things.\n\n....r.c V.t.ell. .r...", "\n\nOK, the small programme that can be used to switch a SunCD drive into\n2048 bytes/block mode for use with MSDOS/Adaptec/APSI it now available\nby 'ftp' from\n\n\tftp.novell.de (193.97.1.1) pub/pc/adaptec/cdblksize.zip", "\n\nThere's also a program called ODYSSEY (MODEM directory on the Simtel\narchives) that emulates MNP 4 and 5 (others, too, I think, but these were\nwhat I was interested in). I was getting a lot of garbage when I called\none number, and MNP 4 cleared it up completely on my ordinary 2400 modem.\n(Fortunately, the remote end had an MNP modem.)\n\nI tried MNP 5, too, but it seemed to lock up the computer. Your mileage\nmay vary.\n", "Readers,\n\nI have found that the cache upgrade options for the Mac IIsi include the\nfollowing:\t1) AE QuickSilver\n\t\t2) Daystar Fastcache IIsi\n\t\t3) Daystar ComboCache IIsi\n\t\t4) LogiCache IIsi 64k cache\n\nI'd be interested in hearing opinions on any or all of these options.\nThe other alternative is to upgrade to a CPU accelerator such as the\nLogiCache 50 MHz. Ideas, comparisions?", "Hello,\n\nCan anybody help me with the conversion of pic format files\nto HPGL files. The question is as follows:\n\nIs it possible to convert files that have been generated in the\npic preprocessor format into HPGL format, suitable for sending\nto a plotter. The hardware involved is IBM RISC/6000 running AIX\n3.2.3. How should this be done and what software is involved,\nwhere is it available, what does it cost, what are the problems?\n\nRegards,\n\nDani\n\n--------------------------------\nCimad Consultants\nAntwerp, Belgium\ndani@cimad.be", "\nAs far as I have read WIN NT will be supported on Intel, DEC ALPHA and the MIPS R4000\nseries of processors only. I do remember though reading a rumour about Sparc support\nsometime in the future. I am not sure what you mean by running \"unix applications\".\nYou would have to have SAS for WIN NT (or maybe SAS for WIN16 etc). I have read \nthat MS will anounce avalaibility of WIN NT by end of May 93 (Comdex Spring). Hope\nthis helps.\n\nRajiev Gupta\n", "I finally got the vesa driver for my ATI graphics ultra plus (2M). However,\nwhen I tried to use this to view under 24bit mode, I get lines on the picture.\nWith 16bit or below, the picture is fine. Can someone tell me what was wrong?\nIs it the card, or is it the software?\n--\nThanks\n8)\n _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ \n _/\t _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ \n _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/\n _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ \n_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ ", "VESA local bus motherboard,\n4MB RAM,\n64K cache,\n1.2 & 1.44 Floppy,\n130 MB Hard Drive,\nIDE controller (2HD&2FD)\n2S/1P/1G\nLocal Bus 1MB SVGA Video Card,\n14\" SVGA Monitor (.28dpi)\nMini Tower, 101-key Keyboard", "Since swapping out my generic VGA card for a Diamod Speedstar 24X, I have \nnoticed two new problems:\n\n* if I create a windowed MS-DOS session (386 mode), when the text starts \n to scroll, rather than printing characters it starts to print\n horizontal lines that spill out to the desktop and trash the entire \n display. Ctrl-alt-del terminates the dos window and restores the \n desktop\n\n* after a short time in NCD's PC X-remote for windows, all characters \n displayed on the desktop are changed to be unreadable; I am unable to\n restore without rebooting.\n\nThese are in both 256 and 16 color 800x600 drivers, large and small fonts.\nDOS 5, Win 3.1, emm386 and smartdrv installed.\n\nI like the speed of the card and have had no other problems. Any ideas?\nThanks!", "I am looking for good add-on font cartridge for HP LaserJet II.\nI found in PC Magazine article IQ Enginnering and Pacific Data Products\nare well-known maker of cartridge for HP LaserJet series. But I couldn't find\nthe model name of these products.\n\nAny suggestions please.\n\nThanks in advance,", "I am running Windows 3.1 on a 386SX-16 MHZ with Five Megs of Memory.\n\nThe motherboard came with one meg, and I added the four megs this past\nweekend. They were 1X9 70 Simms.\n\nI had installed in the application menu MS-DOS command PARK. Up till\ntoday, it parked the disk from the application menu without any problem.\n\nWhen attempting to park the heads today, I received the following\nmessage:\n\n\nSTOP This application has violated system integrity due to\n an invalid general protection fault and will be\n terminated.\n\nWhat does this message mean?\n\nThanks,\n\n\n\n\n-- \nDavid De Trolio (detrolio@andromeda.rutgers.edu)", "Hi,\n\nI am using xdm on X11R5 with OW3 and Xview3 on Sun3s and SPARCs running \nSunOS 4.1.1. Prior to using xdm, I used to set PATH and other environment\nvariables (like MANPATH, HELPPATH, ARCH, etc) in my .login file. With xdm,\nthe .login file doesn't get executed and therefore neither the olwm\nroot-window nor my applications know about these variables.\n\nI used the \"DisplayManager._0.userPath\" resource in /usr/lib/X11/xdm/xdm-config\nto succesfully pass the PATH variable. But I am having problems passing anything else!!! I tried execing $HOME/.login in /usr/lib/X11/xdm/Xsession\nbut that didn't help. I also tried using\n\t\"DisplayManager.exportList: HELPPATH MANPATH ARCH\"\nwhich didn't work either.\n\nI would appreciate any help on this matter.\n\nThanks in advance,\nShash", "I have a stack of records LP 33 that are from the early sixtys to mid seventys\nwith groups like the Beatles, Cream, Woodstock (triple album) etc etc. that I\nwould like to get rid of. I would be willing to sell one or all for whatever\nresonable offer. Some albums still have the original wrapper and price tag.\nI would like to get around $5 for each or you can call and make offer on the\nlot. I could list them all but I'd be typing forever.\n call (408) 296-4444\n\n\n", "a user on my bbs \"accidentally\" deleted his vga driver for his oak77 card and\nhas no backup. i was wondering if someone knew of an ftp site (and path,\nplease!) where such a thing might be obtained. thanks.\n", "\nPaul,\n\nUnfortunately, there are not too many retail outlets that'll stock\njust about every chip made. The stuff they will stock are the ones\nthat'll sell, like standard DRAM's, 80386's, 68000's, etc,etc.\ni.e. I cna't think of any 'one-stop-shopping' store.\n\nThe closest you can get is to pick up a copy of Byte magazine or\nthe Circuit Cellar, Popular Electronics, and the like and flip\nthrough them.\n\nDistributors like Wyle Electronics, Hamilton Avnet, Pioneer Electronics,\netc, etc, don't normally deal with end-users like ourselves where\nwe only a couple of everything...they only deal with people who buy\nby the hundreds or more. Each distributor represents and sells a variety of\ndifferent non-competing manufacturers. What do I mean by this?\nSuppose ABC Electronics sells Intel 80386's. It's a pretty good\nbet that they won't be selling any of AMD's 386's, or vice-versa.\nThey also can obtain just about *any* chip you want from a manufacturer\nthey represent.\n\nWho knows? You might be lucky to be able to buy from one of them.\nBut I'd be suprised if you do. ALso bear in mind that the 1 or 2\nqty prices they will charge you will be *much* greater than what\na mail order outlet will charge.\n\nMy advice? If you're gonna be designing anything, try to stick\nwith off-the-shelf stuff. You're going to get stuck if you use\ntoo many esoteric parts sooner or later.\n\ngood luck,", "\nRadius speculated, publicly, that they could provide a PowerPC-based\nRocket for existing Macs. It would have the plus of RocketShare and\nthe minus of NuBus accelerators - no true boot off the accelerator,\nNuBus bottleneck to video and other I/O.\n\nApple, it seems, will not compete with third parties here -- except\nperhaps for not-yet-available Macs like Cyclone, where a PowerPC\nslot might be advertised. Look for Daystar and such to make PowerPC\naccelerators.\n\nOne potential problem with any accelerator, though, is that it will\nneed a ROM companion and Apple has licensed only Radius, with\nRocketshare, to use any of its proprietary code.\n\nApple is, between the lines, trying to let us know that PowerPC Macs\nwill have simplified logic boards due to the magical nature of RISC\nand that these boards should be much cheaper to build than those in\nexisting 68040 Macs. Perhaps, then, we'll see groundbreaking\nprices in Mac-logic board upgrades, much the same way we've seen\nmuch cheaper high-performance CPUs this year.\n\nFirst generation PowerPCs, 98601s, will also hopefully have socketed\nCPUs so that they'll be chip upgradeable to 98604s a year later.\nThis should be possible in much the same way that 486s can be pulled\nfor clock doublers. If there is too much technical baggage (which\nI doubt since the external busses are the same size/width) to do\nthis, perhaps we can have CPU daughterboard, a la Powerbook, as\nstandard to facilitate better CPU upgrades. This is an area where\nApple has fallen far behing the Intel-based world. Perhaps catchup\nis in order.\n\nBy the way, last week's PC week had an excellent story on PowerPC,\nPentium, MIPS R4000, DEC Alpha (the big four on the microprocessor\nfront for the forseeable future). Worth reading for technojunkies.\nAlso, the latest PC has a cover story on Pentium. Read it, and all\nthe other stories about how Intel is unstoppable and preeminent\nright now.\n\nOnce anyone is this secure, they are due to fall. Intel's market\nposition will never again be as dominant as it is today (especially\nif AMD gets the go ahead to sell its 486s this week as it appears it\nmight). The competition from all fronts is gearing up for an awesome\nbattle. Apple users should be excited that PowerPC, while not\nguaranteed dominance, is a guaranteed winner, even if its one of\nseveral.", "Second Wave makes NuBus card cages that work on the PDS slots of at\nleast three Macs: the SE/30, IIsi and Centris 610. They have not, to\nmy knowledge, announced such a device for the LCII, but they could\nmake one, technologically.\n\nThe PDS card that goes to the cage simply needs the NuBus controller\ncircuitry present on NuBus Macs.\n\nWhy, though, does anyone care about this? dgr has a three-PDS\nadapter for the LC/LCII. They will soon have one for the LCIII. PDS\nis better than NuBus for most people in most applications. Granted,\nthere are more NuBus cards. But, most applications that require a\nNuBus card (like full-motion video capture) shouldn't be done on an\nLC/LCII/LCIII anyway.", "We have the following ski equipment for sale:\n\n\n120 cm poles\t\t$20\t(white)\n\nSalomon Boots-SX80\t$40\n\t; size 320 ladies = 8 to 8.5 in womens size shoe\n\t; two unused in-soles included.\n\nWhat's left of a ski set\nBought New; Hardly Used; Excellent Condition!\n\nAsking $55 for the entire package.\nYou pay shipping and COD charges.\n\nSend me some e-mail.\nI will provide further discriptions upon request.\n\n\n-- \n******************************************************************************\n\n\tDavis\n\tjd490475@longs.lance.colostate.edu", "I'm looking for a circuit that will flash an led on in response \nto the output from a walkman cassette player. How could I do this?\nI don't want it just to turn on, I want it to 'strobe' once so to speak,\nper every beep I put on a cassette tape. \n\n Would it be better to use a circuit based on the volume of the beeps\non the cassette, or better for the leds to respond to a tone of a certain\nfrequency? Is there any easy way to do either of these? I'm looking for \nthe simplest circuit possible. I guess what I'm asking for is some sort of\ncolor organ, but not quite. Let me trt to explain again...\n\n\n I'm going to have a pattern of beats (or beeps) on a cassette tape.\nSo on the tape you'd hear: beep! (pause) beep! (pause) beep! (pause)..etc. \n, with speed increasing as time goes on. I want to synchronize an LED (\nprobably two of them) with the beeps on the cassette tape. So the LED, with\neach beep, would go on and off real quick, generating a strobe light sort\nof effect. The rapidity of the beeps on the tape would in turn effect the\nrapidity of the blinking of the LEDS. And if there was no sound on the tape\n(except for background his), the LEDs would remain off. Please help!\n\n\n Thanks,", "\n\n[Much text deleted]\n\n: I have heard from several people about less expensive m-f I/O cards\n: with 16550s:\n\n: TSD Systems\n: (407) 331-9130\n: $19.95 for the card, plus $9.95 per 16550.\n\nI can vouch for this one. I ordered it and got it for $34 including\nS&H. It took me awhile to figure out how to get it working with my\nsystem, but since I did, I get terrific results while downloading\nusing PCPlus for Windows. I used to get errors if I started any other\nprogram while downloading at high speed. Not anymore. \n\n[More text deleted]", "I need to add to your message.\nI have a major problem on my hands. I have a Rodime 60+ (series\nRO3000T) external hard drive. Rodime is out of business, \nand not writing any more drivers. In particular, drivers \ncompatable with system 7.1. After talking to Rodime, \nthey recommended the following Hard drive manufacturers \nand their driver software that were compatable:\n \nSCSI Hard drive manufacturer Driver Software\n---------------------------- ----------------\nFWB Hard disk tool kit\nFWB Hard disk tool kit - personal\nLa Cie Silverlining 5.2 or higher\nCasa Blanca Driver Software Drive7\n \nIf anybody has experience with these driver software packages, please reply.\nIf there is shareware out there, I would like to get my hands on it. I would\nmuch rather send a good developer the $25 or so, because most of the software\nI mentioned, if purchased, would cost $125, $49, $149, and $49 respectively.\n\nThanks in advance.\nBob Dohr, the Association\n\n_______________________________________________________________________________\n Bringing a kind word and a helpful Spirit wherever we can, we are...\n-+- THE ASSOCIATION - a multi-line Macintosh BBS in Grand Blanc, Michigan!\n Echoes from Fido, InterNet, FamilyNet, ICDMnet, K-12 - PLUS 2Gb files\n at 313-695-6955 HST/v.32bis.\n___________________________________________________________________ Testify 2.0\n", "\nOK, now you are starting to define your criteria.\n\n\nI'm afraid that you haven't actually proved that. You have shown that some\naspects of MSW3.1 are technically inferior to other systems. As I said\nearlier, if this is all you are trying to say then it is trivially true.\nBut some aspects of MSW3.1 are actually technically superior to each of the\nother systems (resource requirements, performace, device support, printer\nsupport, GUI etc.)\n\n[ BTW, I'd love to see the studies which show that UNIX/X is as easy to\n learn as Windows! ]\n\nBut I might even agree that, on balance, MSW3.1 is technically inferior to\nsome of the competition. This still does not prove your point.\n\n\nRange of available applications? Base OS cost? Cost of applications? Cost\nof hardware? Multi-platform support? Quality of the after-sales service?\nAvailability of books/training materials? Support for visual and physical\nhandicaps? Suitability for use in mobile computing? Quality of\nDocumentation?", "\n\nWell that may be true. However, the man page for pageview for OW 2.0\ndoes not mention about DSC compliance. In any event, the point here\nis that if you try to display some PS files using pageview you will\nfind out that it's not a practical tool.", "Thanks for the info. I assume that this is for MFC 1.0. Does anyone\nknow if this will work with MFC 2.0, or what else needs to be done?\nThanks.", "\n\nExcuse me? Are you one of those people who *enjoy* working w/win? Come talk \nto a house-mate of mine and tell him how productive his life is when he \nencountered yet another sudden appearence of the DOS-prompt while cutting \nand pasting in win! Or an empty win screen without any tasks running (i.e.\n^ESC brings up an empty list, progman has done it again.)\n\nLeo", "\nSome motherboards support VL bus and 50-DX CPU. There is an option\n(BIOS I think) where additional wait(s) can be added with regard to\nCPU/VL bus transactions. This slows the CPU down to a rate that gives\nthe VL bus device(s) time to 'do their thing'. These particular wait(s)\nare applied when the CPU transacts with VL bus device(s). You want to\nenable these wait(s) only if you are using a 50-DX with VL bus devices.\n\nThis is from reading my motherboard manual, and these are my interpre-\ntations. Your mileage may vary.\n\nStrictly speaking, VL and 50mhz are not compatable. And, there is at\nleast one 'fudge' mechanism to physically allow it to work.\n", "I have the following Genesis carts for sale or trade:\n\nAlien 3\nGlobal gladiators\nCrue ball\n\nI have the following SNES carts for sale or trade:\n\nJimmy connors tennis\nSuper play action football\n\nCross system trades are fine.\n\nCheers\nMarc\n\n ------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n ** ** * ****** *** * | On the net,\n ** * ** *** ** ** * * | no-one can hear you scream!\n ** * ** *** **** ** * * |------------------------------------\n ** * ** *** ** ** * * | email marc@comp.lancs.ac.uk\n ** * ****** * ****** ** ** | marc@computing.lancaster.ac.uk", "If anyone out there can help, I would greatly appreciate it.\n\nThis christmas, I built a computer out of used parts for my Father-in-law.\nThe disk drive that I installed was a Seagate 251-1 MFM. Anyway, he now he\nwould like to put another HD into this system. I DON'T want to buy another\nMFM, the only reason why I used an MFM in the first place is that it was\nFREE. Would I need a special IDE HD controller? Also, if I do need a \nspecial IDE controller, where can I purchase one, & how much are they?\n\nPlease send any responses to:\nlynn@vax1.mankato.msus.edu\n\n\n\t\t\t\t\tThanks in advance,", "\n\n\nNeither did he!\n\n\nOverall? How do you figure?\n\n\nSo far my radio hasn't exploded from not being tuned to 660...\n", "I am posting the following for my brother. Please post your replies or\nsend him email to his address at the end of his message. Thank you.\n____________________________________________________________________\n\nMy supervisor is looking for a image analysis software for\nMS DOS. We need something to measure lengths and areas on\nmicrographs. Sometime in the future, we may expand to do\nsome densitometry for gels, etc. We've found lots of ads and\ninfo for the Jandel Scientific products: SigmaScan and Java.\n\nBut we have not been able to find any competing products. We\nwould appreciate any comments on these products and\n\nsuggestions / comments on other products we should consider.\nThanks.\n\n \n\nDonald", "I'm posting this for my Mom and Dad's neighbor. Please contact her\ndirectly.\n\n\t\t\t\tFor Sale", "Hi folks,\n\n\twhat exactly is the maximum memory I can put in\na Quadra 700. My manual says 20MB (with 4 x 4MB SIMMs), \nbut MacWarehouse and the like advertise 16MB SIMMs to\ngive it a total of 68MB. Who's wrong? Has anybody got\n68MB?\n\n\nThanks,\n\n\n\tChris", "1-800-832-4778 Western Digital's Voice Mail -\nCan get information on many drives, or an\nactual person at the end.\n", "For sale :\n\n\n\n\n\tBose A5 subwoofer 1 month old\n\n\t2 Advent minis 4 months old\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nemail offers to ", "I was a bit surprised that the manual for my Fluke-87 multimeter\nsuggests applying WD-40 to the test lead sockets, especially the\ncurrent range socket. The intention is to prevent the\ntest-lead-is-in-the-wrong-scocket beeper from going off when there\nis no test lead in that socket.\n\nThe manual is a bit vague, but I think I'd apply the WD-40 to a\nswab, then wipe the socket instead of spaying the stuff directly\nfrom the can.\n\nSpeaking of said meters: I compared the 87 against the 8060A that\nI've had on my bench for almost 11 years. It has been five years\nsince the 8060A has been calibrated. On the DC scale, they agree\nwithin .01 mV. AC scale is within about .1 mV. The 87 would be\njust about the perfect portable meter if it had the dB scale; I\ndidn't feel it was worth the extra $100 for a second 8060 since I\ndon't use dB all that much in my work.\n", "{Gladman Aviv} said\n \"Re: Blue LED's\"\n to on 04-24-93 01:51\n\n GA> In order to emit blue light, a semiconductor must have a band gap\n GA> energy within the region of 2.6 to 2.8 electron Volts. According to my\n GA> physical electronics prof, you can't get an LED with that band gap.\n GA> That's why you don't find blue LEDs or, for that matter, some other\n GA> colour of LEDs. That is not to say that blue LEDs can't be found. I've\n GA> seen 'blue' LEDs sold, but they were just your typical visible light\n GA> LED in a blue plastic covering. They didn't emit very much light...\n\n This is not true they have and do make blue LED's they are\n about 2.80 in digikey. 470nm wavelength by the way\n\n Stephen Cyberman@Toz.Buffalo.NY.US\n Mangled on Sun 04-25-1993 at 13:33:46", "Hi, I have a trident TVGA-8900 video card and need the updated\ndrivers for Win3.1 where can I get them from an ftp site.\n\n\n\t\t\t\t\tThanks", "I agree. I own one. Aside from the shutter, it is built like\na little tank. A very good camera. Your price sounds reasonable,\ntoo. New, I paid $565 for my KIEV 88 Camera Kit. Good luck.", "Hi netters,\n\nDoes anyone know have any info on the Ultrastor line of controller?\nI'm especially interested in the 14F and 34F SCSI controllers.\nPlease email any info ASAP. I'm building a system and that's one\nof the few conponents that is missing. Thanks.", "HI All,\nCan someone point me towards some articles on 'boids' or\nflocking algorithms... ?\n\nAlso, articles on particle animation formulas would be nice...\n ________________________________________________________________________\n \\________________________________________________________________________\\|\n---\n þ DeLuxeý 1.25 #8086 þ Head of Co*& XV$# Hi This is a signature virus. Co", "To following up my own note:\n: :\n: : It looks like everything works as advertised but I am disappointed\n: : with the speed. I'm using an Intel 400 internal 14.4k modem in the PC\n: : with Telebit 14.4k on the Unix end, which are currently limited to\n: : 19.2Kbits by the Unix com link. To get a quantitative comparison, I\n: : did 'cat file' where \"file\" is 20 kbyte uncompressed ascii text, and\n: : it took 75 seconds to scroll through an X window over the modem link,\n: : 270 chars/sec. Using the identical hardware and Procomm+FW the same\n: : \"cat file' takes 11 seconds, 1820 chars/sec. BTW, I use NCD PC XView\n: : on my PC at work (HP) every day for the same Unix access from a PC over\n: : a LAN and like that just fine. The same 'cat file' scrolls by in\n: : ~2 seconds on the LAN connection.\n\nI just tried a few experiments. I cat'd a 20261-byte file (471 lines)\nunder various scenarios:\n\nPC-Xview for DOS in a full-screen OS/2 window (1024x768x16): 18 sec\nTelix (DOS) in an OS/2 window (1024xs768x256): 107 sec!\nTelix (DOS) is a full-screen OS/2 window (standard VGA): 11 sec\nTelix (DOS) in a Windows 3.1 window (1024x768x256): 30 sec\nUW/WIN in a seamless OS/2 window (1024x768x256): gave up after 4 min!\nUW/WIN in Windows 3.1 (1024x768x256): faster, but gave up after 2 min\nUW/WIN in a seamless OS/2 window using pg 30 sec, could have been a\n little faster (I had to keep\n hitting the space bar)\n\nI was using an ATI Wonder XL video card, by the way.\n\nSo PC-Xview for DOS looks pretty good (and the line-by-line scrolling\nin OS/2 desktop looks pathetic, although full-page redraws are pretty\ngood).\n\nI tried it under PC-Xview using my normal (9x15bold or 10x20) font,\nand with a very small font, and there was no difference in the times.\nThe modem receive light was on pretty solidly, so it looks like the\nbottleneck was the 9600-baud modem, not the screen drawing.\n", "Put me down for a PB100 4/20 with ext. floppy, AppleTalk Remote Acces,\nAC adapter, and fresh out of box (was used, but buyer switched to 140\non arrival and sold unopened box. Purchased last October for $925.\nLater I bought a used PowerPort V.32 9600 bps internal fax-modem for\nsomething like $225, I'm using right now! Works great! :)\n\nNo real complaints. I love my portable system (got a color home setup\nalso. Mac II). Reasoning was that MATLAB programs at school and other\nsimulations of dynamic control systems sometimes took hours (or\novernight) to run, tying up my Mac II. I got the PB100 with fast modem\nto do light work and on-the-run stuff. I figured I'd give it to my\nlittle sister next year when she goes to college. It's running System\n7.1 now without any problems. Also I sometimes do DEC4015 terminal\nemulations with MATLAB on our university's VAX_VMS (nice thing that it\nbenchmarks itself as an average of 230 times faster than a mac IIfx).\nSo, the PB100 just does graphical output and terminal emulation (not\ntoo hard at all for it). It was a FABULOUS setup !!!! :) Weeee!!!\n\n(By the Way, all MATLAB software was on class accounts. I was also the\nTA for a class that used SIMULAB/SIMULINK. We had site-license and\ntake-home, then-destroy later site-release licenses... No pirating\nthere, incase you're wondering.... Great Program!!! )\n\nJust like to add, whatever future system you get, you can almost never\nget enuff memory.... Buy it while it's cheap - that is buy it when you\nget the computer since it's usually cheaper than upgrading... I ALWAYS\nrun out of disk space... But I have a syquest on the Mac IIsi, so I\nnever worried about space before... Got several carts).", "es:\n\nxv 3.0 (shareware) supports 24-bit displays, and has lots of other\nimprovements over earlier versions. Definitely worth checking out\n(also at export)\n\nJean.\n-- \nJean Liddle \nComputer Science, Illinois State University \ne-mail: jliddle@ilstu.edu ", "\nWindows NT is a giant Windows Operating System. Unline Win3.1, it does not \nrun on top of DOS. It is its own OS, with (Billy Gates assures us) true \nmulti-tasking/multithreading, meets DOD security specs, will run win3.1 \nprograms as well as DOS programs, has multi-processor support, and is\nprimarily a Server program. It's overhead is too high for it to be\neconomical for most users.\n\tSpeaking of overhead, it requires at least a 386 with 16 megs of RAM. \nIt iwll run with 12, but that's like running OS/2 2.0 with 4 megs. And that's \njust to run it. Also, I have heard that the system files take up 30-50 Megs, \nand it is recommended that your drive be a half gig! The SKD is distributed \non CD-ROM.\n\nChicogo is what I want to use. It is, like NT, a true OS with thrue \nmultitasking and multithreading, but has much smaller hardware requirements, \nand does not meet DOD security specs (but that's okay since it will probably \nbe more of a client OS). there are a few otehr differences, but those are the \nmain ones. There was an article about Chicogo in PC Week last August.\n\tThe Chicogo and NT development groups at Micro$oft are in intense \ncompetition, so it is said. However, I think a different relationship will \narise: NT will be the server (*N*etowrk *T*echonology), Chicogo will be the \nclient machine. It is entirely possible for different OS's to work together, \npartly because Chicogo is just a small NT (think of it that way, anyway). \n(Novell Netware creates an OS on the server that is truly not DOS, so don't\nscorn the concept.)\n\tAnyway, don't expect it soon. Windows 4 and DOS 7 are supposed to be \nreleased next year (read: see it in 95), so I expect that Chicogo won't be out \ntil '96.\n\tWith luck, I'll be proven wrong! =)\n\nRob", "\nThere are a couple. I am personally using screenpeace, which is a\nscreen saver which will also select your wallpaper from a specified\ndirectory (not necessarily the windows dir.). Let me know if you want\ninfo. I've been pretty happy with screenpeace, and the latest version\n(3) is *not* at cica, but oak, /windows3/scrpc3or.something\n\nMickey", "Are you sure you're running in 386-enhanced mode? (Windows 3.1\ntakes more memory...)\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\n Sorry for any confusion I may have created. The disk did come out of\na VS2000 and I would like to use it in a IBM PC clone. The reason that I\nposted to comp.sys.3b1 was because I saw the drive (XT2190) mentioned\nin a for-slae notice. I had asked for info before but didn't receive\nany replies.\n\n Thanks once again for the help.", "\n\nI agree that the image is as sharp as it gets with these SONY tubes,\nhowever in the 17\" monitors using these tubes, the 2 annoying black\nlines on the top and bottom quarters of the tube, which are created due\nto the wires holding up the Invar Shadow Mask, are quite annoying after\na while. That is the only thing that is making me lean more in favor\nof the NEC 5FG (or now also available the NEC 5FGe - only difference,\nno ACCUCOLOR ). Any experiences or opinions from people who have used\nthe NEC 5FG would be appreciated since I want to get one right after\nmy exams are all done (ie: about a week from now).\n\n-Tony\n", "Article 10886 of alt.radio.scanner:\nPath: usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!aj008\nFrom: aj008@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Aaron M. Barnes)\nSubject: Realistic PRO-2024 for sale-was $200,sell for $150 obo\nDate: 20 Apr 1993 16:01:28 GMT\nOrganization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)\nLines: 26\nMessage-ID: <1r16oo$3du@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>\nNNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu\n\n\nHello.\n\nI have a Realistic PRO-2024 scanner for sale.Here is a small desc\nription:\n\n60 programible chanels\nfully detailed backlighted digital display\nheadphone jack\nantenna jack\nremovable telescoping antenna\nauto search\n\ncoverage:\n30-50mHz\n118-174mHz\n380-512mHz\n\nIt originally cost $200, but I will sell for $150.\n\nThank You.\n-- \n / / Buchanan in `96!\n / / Fear the goverment that fears your guns.\n \\ \\/ / Without the 2nd amendment, we cannot guarantee ou\n \\/ / r freedoms. aj008@cleveland.freenet.edu", "Selling:\n\nColeco Base Unit with:\n 2 Controllers\n 1 Atari Game Adapter to Play Atari games\n 12 games (Ms. Pac Man, Smurfs, etc..)\n\nWill ship COD\n\nPrice$: MAKE AN OFFER", "Hi,\n\nSince the original buyer found out he couldn't use this modem\nfor his Mac (I beleive I mentioned that it's an internal in my\nformer post), the modem is re-available now. This modem is\nSupraFaxModem V.32bis. If interested, please e-mail.\n\nThanks!", "Hi,\n\nMy name is rahul and I am doing MS at USU, Logan\nMy query is:\n\tI have a HP workstation: HP Series 400 with X running on it.\nI have a true color - 24bit color monitor connected to this machine.\nNormally I have the capability to display 256 colors from a max of\n16.7 million. Since the monitor is True Color I can see 16.7\nmillion at a time. \nQue: do we have a facility in X(c-function call) that will enable me\nto specify any RGB combination and see it on screen? I am using\nXStoreColor to set the pallette of a max of 256 colors.\nQue: If not. Is there any way I can display a true color image\non a true color monitor using XLib function calls?\n\nWe are generating ray traced images and 256 colors are indeed a\npainful limit. besides I need the facility to display the true color images \ni will be generating on a true color system WITHOUT color \nquantification.\nPlease, if anyone can help i'd be obliged", "Dbase IV 1.5 for sale, 3.5 inch disks, all registration included (so you\ncan upgrade to 2.0 if you want), manuals still shrinkwrapped, disks only\nopened to verify they all work. Asking $175 or best offer.\n\n", "==============================================================================\nPlease bear with me as i am new at this game, i apologize unreservedly if i hav\ne posted another message earlier by mistake. but i digress, could anyone out th\nere please explain exactly what DMORF does (dtax.exe). Does it simply fade one\nbitmap into another or does it reshape one bitmap into another. Excuse my ignor\nance.....\n", "Can anybody send me Pinouts of Real Time Clock IC of OKI Semiconductors,\n58321. I wish to know if any RTC IC of OKI has an inbuilt crystal rather\nthan an external 32.768KHz crystal.\nThanks in advance.\nNilesh Parikh\nnilesh@shakti.ncst.ernet.in\n\n", "I have for sale 2 (TWO) x 1 MEG (70ns) SIMMS for the Macintosh aka fastones.\nIf you are interested, please email an offer.", "Hi. I'm looking for information on how to directly manipulate\n video memory. I have an application that I would like to use this for,\n because it is much faster than going through the BIOS. I know that\n video memory ispart of the system area above the first 640K, so I guess\n I am looking to find out exactly what section of memory it is, and how it\n is layed out. Thanks.", "There are many people want to buy my Kodak autofocus carousel projectors\nbut I don't have lenses or remote to sell. They prefer to buy a projector\nwith all accessaries. So I have to post another news asking for lenses\nto fit those Kodak slide projectors:\n\nI am willing to give away Singer Caramate II or Singer Caramete SP (\nw/ built-in unremovable lens, built-in casette player, speaker, new 500 HR\nbulb) try to trade for Kodak projector lenses.\n\nEach projector (viewer) will equal trade for 1 or 2 Kodak projector lenses\ndepend on the focal length. I will pay for the shipping for Singer \nprojector (viewer).\n\nSince I don't need those Singer projectors, if you have some 35mm SLR system\nyou don't need, I am willing to do the trade as well.", "We are trying to write a program which can read files created by quattro\npro 3.0 and above. Would anyone know where to find information regarding\nthe format in which Quattro Pro stores its files.\n\nThanks in Advance\nMahesh", "\nI bought a Viewsonic 17 for use at home but after a week I took it back. I \nfelt for the money my NEC 5FG that I use at work was a much better monitor.\nThe NEC is sharper, flatter, less distorted, and more stable. I have heard \ncomplaints from people about the NEC FG series having some quality control \nproblems but mine has been in use for about a year with no problems at all.\n\nThere was nothing really broken with the Viewsonic but overall it did not \nmatch up. I used my ATI Graphics Ultra in setup mode to push the \nfrequencies to their limits and the Viewsonic exhibited some problems that \nthe NEC did not. I personally like the non-etched NEC with the OCLI filter \nand the tube on the 17 was not as nice. The 17 had some uncorrectable \npincusion and edge distortion problems. Also, it would change brightness \nwhen I switched modes and I was constantly having to fiddle with the \ncontrols. And the yoke was crooked and I had no way to compensate for the \nraster that tilted downhill. On the postive side, although not as handsome \nas the NEC, the 17 had a smaller footprint and was not as heavy.\n\nI have heard that Panasonic owns Viewsonic and the model 17 is being sold \nthrough OEM channels with a Panasonic label on it. If it's available that \nway at a lower cost I could get more serious about it. For now the NEC has \nmy vote but I'm searching for one of the new, cheaper, NEC 5FGe's to see if \nit's just as good as its older brother the 5FG before I decide which one to \nbuy.\n\nI have no experience with the Nanao. I can never keep the Nanao models \nstraight and don't have any place I can walk in to get a good comparison of \nall models.\n\n-- \n\nStandard employer disclaimers apply\n\n\n", "I need help binding some value to the HOME and END keys on my keyboard. I have an\nrs/6000 w/ aix3.2.3ext running X11R5pl19 mit dist. I'm using a PC running eXceed\nfor windows as my xterminal. The HOME and END keys do not send a value, and my\napplication needs them to be defined. I used this in my Xdefaults to define the\nkeys:\n\nvarnet*VT100.Translations: #override \\\n Home: string(\"\\033[8~\") \\n\\\n End: string(\"\\033[7~\")\n\nThen I xterm -name varnet. This works perfect, however the 7 and the 1 key on my\nkeypad are also defined as \\033[8~ and \\033[7~.\n\nAny ideas? Help please.\n\nThanks.\n\n", "I was just reading in PC Magazine that the peripherals in a PC with an\nISA bus can only access 16MB of memory. Also, that some video cards on\nthe ISA bus look for a memory aperture to map their memory to. So that\nif I wanted to put 16MB of memory on my PC, my video card wouldn't have\nanywhere to map it's memory to.\n\nCan someone explain this in more detail. Is there a way around this\nlimit.\n\nIf you email me a response, I will summarize.\n\t-Bo\tbegolej@csgrad.cs.vt.edu", "This discussion on viewing .ps files undex X11 seems rather interesting\nbut I fail to understand the reason it is not contained in 2 at most\nnewsgroups.\n\nI am subscribed to comp.text.interleaf and I could care less about\n.ps viewing under X11. I am sure that members of this group interested in\nthe topic can followup by looking at other newsgroups.\n\nCould you please remove the comp.text.interleaf from your distribution?\nJust as a nettish sort of courtesy.\n\nBest regards.\n\n-- \nLeo J Irakliotis irakliot@longs.lance.colostate.edu", ": I have a question about SVGA cards. I have a Tseng 4000 SVGA with 1MB\n: memory and 3x 6-bit DACs as far as I know. To display a 640x480x32768, \n: Now: Can I display 640x480, 15bit/pixel bit-maps on this card?\n\nYou can. At the least, your _hardware_ is capable of supporting this mode.\nI do know nothing about your video BIOS, though...\n\n: If so, how?\n\nSilly (but fool-proof ;) way: Install Windows with 640x480x32K colors\nwideo driver and display your pictures under windows...\n\nCheese,", "Hello,\n\nWe are having troubles using the PC/TCP onpredir (printer redirection program\nwith lpr support) with the Windows print manager. The onpredir simply waits\nan do only the capture till the end of the Windows session, while after some\nprinter inactivity it should start the printing.\n Does anybody uses this two programs together?", "Hello,\n\n\tHas anyone built cxterm (X11R5) on a MIPS platform. If you have,\nplease send me email as I don't read this group. I've a bunch of questions...\n:-)\n\n\t\t\t\tThanks", "I am doing a report on the topic of 'Advanced Memory Management' and\nneed to know of some good references to cover this topic. It is an \nAnalytical Chemistry class on Instrumental Analysis. So, as you \ncould guess, it doesn't have to be an extremely thorough or extensive\ncovering of the topic. Also, I am a Chemical Engineer and know some,\nbut not too much about memory management. If anyone could help point \nme in a good direction I would be very thankful.\n\nThanks in advance.", "\nDoes it do it to all tapes? Were the two tapes that it unwound of the same\ntype from the same batch? The reason I ask is that I bought some generic tapes\nthat did this and found that the tape markers were not fully punched out and\nhad closed the little marker hole. It was only on a few tapes of a set.\n\nDid you open up the tape cartridge and put the tape back on the reels?\n\nIf you have not yet, open it up by removing the two screws on the bottom of\nthe tape cartridge and snap the plastic shell away from the metal base. \nAs you are pulling the tape through the assembly try not to touch any more \nthan you have to. As you are doing it, look for a couple of little holes in \nthe tape. These are the marker holes which let the tape drive know when it is \nat the end of the tape. The holes are spaced a couple of inches apart. My best\nguess is that the drive finds the first marker and then stops on the second\nmarker? \n\nAnyhow, If the tape has the holes, then check to see if the mirror on the tape\nis clean. The function of the mirror is to detect the marker holes. The\ntape drive shines a light at the mirror and has a pickup in the area where\nthe reflection would come out. When the hole goes by, the pickup detects the \nlight that was allowed to pass and it knows when to stop. If the mirror is dirty\nor out of alighment (unlikely since it is made into the case) you might have\na problem detecting the end of the tape.\n\nIf the tape drive does it on all tapes and the tapes all look good, then either\nthe pickup or the LED of the sensor system has failed or is dirty. If you open\nthe drive door you will see the sensor assembly to the left of the R/W head\nassembly. If it looks clean and nothing is in its way, then the drive may\nneed to be serviced. It is possible that the LED is burned out or the sensor\nis out. \n\nIf it is still in warranty, you might be able to send it back to CMS for\nrepair.\n\n\n---\nScott Hiles\nwhiles@relay.nswc.navy.mil", "I have a wonderful Commodore 128 for sale!!!!\n Also included:\n 1571 disk drive\n color moniter\n power supply (great shape)\n software\n joysticks\n 2 300 baud modems (old, but useable)\n\n\ncontact doug (906) 487-0369 or (815) 623-6447\n", "Name your price, cap colours & quantity available.\ncheers\nMike\n", "I'm looking for a version of xterm which handles color and vt220 style status\nlines. Can anyone out there help?", "Hi!\n\nI recently switched my 3.5\" drive to A:. The problem is, while I can read and\nwrite to both the new A: and B: correctly, I can't boot from a floppy in A:.\nI've checked the CMOS settings; it is set for Floppy Seek at Boot and Boot \nOrder A:,C:. \n\nOnce, I had a floppy that did not have the systems files on it in A:. I got a\nmessage telling me to put a disk systems disk in the drive. It didn't work.\nWhen I do have a systems disk in the A: drive, this is what happens:\n1) Power-on and Memory Test;\n2) A: light comes on\n3) B: light comes on, followed by a short beep;\n4) HD light comes on for an instant;\n5) B: light comes on again, then nothing happens\n\nThe light goes off, there is no disk activity of any kind, and the screen \nblanks. I can't even use ctrl-alt-del.\n\nAny suggestions.\n\nThanks in advance.", "Is there aything available for X similar to QuicKeys for the Macintosh --\nsomething that will allow me to store and playback sequences of keystrokes,\nmenu selections, and mouse actions - directing them towards another\napplication?\n\nIf so, could someone send me information on its availability -- and if not,\nhow hard do we think it might be to send input to other X applications and,\nhopefully, deal with their responses appropriately? (If an application is\ngoing to take a few seconds to process I probably have to wait for it to\ncomplete before sending another command.)\n\nthanks,", "\n Is it possible through either pin configuration or through software\n programming to change the IP numbers on an ethernet card?\n\nThe Ethernet card doesn't use the IP number (32-bits, usually\n#.#.#.#); it uses the Ethernet address (48-bits, usually\n#:#:#:#:#:#). I have never run across an Ethernet controller that\ncannot be programmed to use an address that is not assigned to it.\nDECNET requires this feature.\n\nHowever, that said, there is no reason to ever change the Ethernet\naddress. They are globally unique, the first three bytes being\nassigned to the manufacturer by the IEEE, and the last three by the\nmanufacturer.", "[...]\n\n\tI struggled with the margin problem for ages as well, until I\nfinally got hold of the shareware binary editor BEAV133, and dug into\nNOTEPAD.EXE (there is no SETUP facility to force NOTEPAD to default to \n0.0 margins- it's hardwired into code!!!). \n\n\tDo a SEARCH for \".75\", then change the offending bytes to \".00\", \net viola. Who are the guys who hardcode these \"options\" anyway?\n\n\tI'm interested in whether the problem only rears it's ugly head for \ncertain printers- I'm using an old Epson LX-800 (or is that EX-800? never can \nremember).", "\n\nTerry, hi. I recently bought an LCIII and a Datadesk 101E. I can't\nremember trying to rebuild the desktop with it, however it did give me\na strange problem. When I held down shift during startup to disable\nall extensions, nothing happened. I tried it with another keyboard, using\nthe same adb connector cable- and it worked with the other keyboard.\nThe shift key on the Datadesk keyboard worked well otherwise. I checked\nthe dipswitches and they are fine. Try disabling your extensions and tell\nme if it works.\n\nI am annoyed with Datadesk. I sent them the keyboard in the mail for\ninspection/repair/replacement. The technician on the phone said they\nhave a 10-14 day turn around time- meaning you should receive the\ninspected/repaired keyboard in that time. Well, they have had the\nkeyboard for over 3 weeks and I still have gotten very little info\nfrom them about it. It's annoying because it cost me $12 to send them\nthe keyboard (they do not refund the money) and their costumer service\nlines are toll calls. Tell me if you have a similar experience.\n\n-David", "Once again, someone else with a Gateway Monitor problem, anyone who can\nhelp, please do, it would be much apprieciated. Thanks in advance.\n\nOk, I have a Local Bus 486/66 machine, with the Crystal Scan 15inch\nmonitor. I have 1 meg of loca memory on the ATI ultra pro, w/ the\nmach32 driver (the newest release).\n\nMy problem is in Windows when I use the 1024 mode. I get shadows down\nthe sides of the screens, and very blurry type in the corners. The\ntypes on the screen are all out of focus. I've gotten replacement video\ncards, and a replacement monitor. None of that has helped though.\nCould someone pleae help me with this very frustruating problem.\n\nThanks again,\nJosh Smith", "Hi folks,\n\nAt the end of the summer I'm planning on getting a new computer (486DX50 or\n486DX2/66) and have been poking around in Computer Shopper. Anyway I saw\nthe ads for the Diamond Viper (Local Bus, 2MB memory, 50 million+ WinMarks)\nand was wondering if anyone has had any experience with it (good/bad/not worth\nthe money/etc.) Any information at all would be nice.\n\nAlso, a few other questions. Anyone know of a good cheap 15\"+ 1024x768 NI\nmonitor? And what is a good CD-ROM drive that meets MPC standards and is\ncontrolled via SCSI? How about a 250MB tape drive on SCSI?", "\n\n\nA similar reason is why people at work, used to seeing SCO unix running\non a 486, are suprised when they see my Sun-3 at home running faster w/a 16MHz\n68020/68881. The Sun was designed from the ground up for UNIX, the PC\nwasn't.\n\nThis is why you need a gargantuan processor to run Windows. The basic\ndesign of the box is all wrong. (Would've been better if MS had put most\nof Windows on a plug-in ROM card from day one. (priced at $24.95 or\nso...) People woulda loved it.\n\nApple had the right idea, just stumbled a bit in the execution.\n\n-Pete\n", "I'm told that VRrend386 is available on the internet. I wanted to know where it is.\n\nThanks in advance.\n\nRaoul", "This poll was conducted to help users decide whether or not to alter their\nIIsi clock oscillator. I have attempted to gather as many case histories as\npossible to find some estimate of success and risk. The number of replies\nprobably shows how rare this modification is but give the impression that\nsuccess rates may be higher than the previous 80% estimate. 24 of 24\nmachines were able to run at 25 mhz when no add on boards were present.\nThis is not a scientific survey but it is the best we have to work with.\n\nThanks to all who contributed to this poll. \n\n\nIssues:\n\n\tSpeed) 25 mhz to 27.5 mhz appears to be the norm for machines without\n\t\tadd on cards. All reported machines were able to use\n\t\t25 mhz as long as no add on cards were present. Several Apple\n\t\tNubus cards were in use. No machine with the Nubus adapter\n\t\twas able to go faster than 25 mhz. One wasn't even able to\n\t\tachieve 25 mhz with the Nubus adapter in place\n\t\n\t\tAt speeds of 32 and 33 mhz, the startup sound is distorted and\n\t\thi density floppy disk problems have been reported.\n\t\t\n\t\tNote: Unless specifically listed below, machines were not\n\t\t\ttested with a higher speed clock to failure. Hence,\n\t\t\tthe 25 mhz operational machines may well work at\n\t\t\thigher speeds.\n\t\t\t\n\tDamage) One user reported pulling out the plating of one pad. This was\n\t\trepaired and the machine is operational. One other\n\t\treported pulling the pin out of the original clock oscillator\n\t\tduring desoldering. There is one second hand report of a user\n\t\tputting a gash in the motherboard with a slipped soldering iron.\n\t\t\n\t\tNo reports of static discharge damage.\n\t\t\n\t\tNo reports of high speed operation causing damage.\n\t\t\n\t\tThen again, I also don't have any reports from users of\n\t\tdefective parachutes.\n\t\t\n\tAdd on boards) Compatibility appears to be a problem with Apple Nubus\n\t\tAdapters. Several other add on boards have been used with\n\t\tsuccess. See case histories\n\t\t\n\tHeat Sinks) Virtually all modified machines had a heat sink installed.\n\t\tThese were often the TO-220 style power transistor type. Some\n\t\tused epoxy. Some used a dab of heat sink compound with a dab\n\t\tof cyanoacrylate glue. There was also use of a clamp with a\n\t\tbolt through the hole in the motherboard.\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\nCase Histories:\t\n\nAll speeds are the effective CPU speed (1/2 of clock oscillator). All reported\nCPU versions were 20 mhz.\n\n1) 27.5 mhz operational. Ran for 10 minutes at 31 mhz before crashing.\n No FPU or other add on card\n Heatsinked CPU only\n On 24 hours/day\n No damage during installation\n \n2) 27.5 mhz operational without Apple Nubus adapter. 25 mhz top speed with\n\tApple Nubus card installed\n Heatsinked CPU only\n On 24 hours/day\n No floppy problems\n No damage during installation\n \n3) 27.5 mhz operational. Unable to boot at 31 mhz\n Heatsinked CPU only\n No floppy problems\n No damage during installation\n \n4) 25 mhz operational\n Works with the following two configurations\n\t\n\t \ta)\tRealtech FPU adaptor card\n\t\t\tRealtech Cache card\n\t\t\tSuperMac 8*24 PDQsi\n\t\t\n\t\tb) \tSuperMac FPU adaptor card\n\t\t\tSuperMac Video Spigot\n\t\t\tSuperMac 8*24 PDQsi\n\t\t\t\n5)\t33 mhz operational\n\t\tFuzzy startup sound\n\t\tProblems with hi density disks\n\n6)\t33 mhz operational\n\t\tFuzzy startup sound\n\tHeat sink on CPU and chip to right of CPU\n\t\n7)\t25 mhz operational. Occasional crash at 33 mhz\n\n8)\t25 mhz operational.\n\tUsing FPU rated at 16 mhz without difficulty\n\t\n9)\t25 mhz operational.\n\tPDS adapter with a Spectrum 24PDQsi graphics card and a \n\tVideoSpigot, a 20MHz FPU\n\tHeat sink on CPU\n\t\n10)\t25 mhz operational. 33 mhz failed after several hours.\n\n11)\t25 mhz operational\n\t 5/80+quicksilver/fpu(only upgrade)\n\t \n12)\t25 mhz operational. Tried 33 mhz - system won't start. \n \tHeat sink on CPU\n\tConfigured with\n\t\tRealTech FPU/adapter card\n\t\tSupermac 8*24 PDQsi\n\t\tRealtech cache.\n\tCPU on continuously - no problems.\n \tFloppy works fine at 1.4MB @ 25 mhz\n\t\n13) 25 mhz operational\n\tHeat sink on CPU\n\t\n14) 25 mhz operational\n\tHeat sink on CPU\n\t\n15) 25 mhz operational\n\tHeat sink on CPU\n\t\n16) 25 mhz operational\n\tHeat sink on CPU\n\t\n17) 25 mhz operational\n\tHeat sink on CPU\n\tOn 17-19 hours per day\n\t\n18) 25 mhz operational\n\tHeat sink on CPU + cooling fan\n\tNo floppy problems at 25 mhz\n\t\n19) 20 mhz operational. Bombed soon after startup at 25 mhz with Nubus Adapter\n\t20 mhz rated CPU\n\tRAM 70 ns in slots, 80 on motherboard\n\t\n20) 25 mhz operational\n\tHeat sink added to CPU later. No damage while unheatsinked.\n\tApple Nubus adapter with FPU installed.\n\t\n21) 25 mhz operational\n\tHeat sink on CPU\n\t\n22) 25 mhz operational\n\tHeat sink on CPU\n\t\n23) 25 mhz operational\n\tHeat sink on CPU\n\t\n24) 25 mhz operational\n\tHeat sink on CPU", "\nA brilliant algorithm. *NOT*\n\nSeriously - it's correct, up to a sign change. The flaw is obvious, and\nwill therefore not be shown.\n\nsorry about that.\n\n\n", "Could anyone direct me to the FTP site where I can find the DOS-based\nmorphing package called DMORF12.ZIP? I had downloaded this file last week,\nbut the new DOS 6 crashed my hard drive and I lost it. Now I can't find the\nsite where I got it from.......\n\nAlso, are there any other morphing packages out for DOS (freeware or shareware)\n\n\nThanks in advance,\nBarry\n\n/---------------------------------------------------------------------------\\\n\\___________________________________________________________________________/\n-- ", "===== This is a posting for my friend who does not have USENET access ========\n===== Please contact him (not me) directly, thank you ========================\n\n1. The Mac II is supposed to have a socket for the MC68851 PMMU chip. Could\nanyone let me know where that socket is on the motherboard. I have obtained\na PMMU chip (16 Mhz) from a surplus store, and would like to install it onto\nmy Mac II (circa 1987). But I cannot see the socket myself when I tried to\ninstall it.\n\n2. Could anyone send me the pinouts for the Mac II SCSI DB-25 interface?\n\n\nThank you.", "\n[lines deleted]\n\n\nThis list appears to imply, that MS-windows that has a cost listed\nabove at $70, comes with a C compiler, C++ and Fortran. It does not, of\ncourse. These are expensive add-ons that drive the price WAY beyond $70.\n( I don't know if the same applies to OS/2 )\n\nAs far as unix is concerned;\nThere is a free unix, linux, that has cc, ~c++, fortran ( f2c ),\nXwindows and many other features besides, with a large number of utilities\nthat can be optionally added. And there is also a free 386BSD I believe.\nBoth these unix's are quite robust. You can check out comp.os.linux\n\nIf you don't want to \"throw our many down the tubes\", you've got to break\nthat list down a little more.\n", "\nWell Bill, There are 2MB soldered on the logic board and 2MB in the RAM\nexpansion slot giving you 4MB. The only thing you can do to upgrade to\nthe maximum Ram is to remove the 2MB expansion and install a 6MB expansion,\ngiving you a total of 8MB which is the max on a 170....You can try calling\nTechWorks, or any other memory vendors out of MacWeek, MacWorld...etc....", "Hello-- I'm currently designing the architecture of a chip which is\nintended to help speed up common operations on a windowing system such as\nX. A friend and I are designing the chip as the final course project for\nan advanced computer architecture course taught by Dr. Fred Brooks at\nUNC-Chapel Hill. While we feel that we've got a pretty solid design\ncurrently, we'd really like to get ahold of some frequency data from an\nX-Windows server so that we can make the most effective use of our bit\nbudget. \n\nUnfortunately, I've been unable to find anything of this sort in the\nvarious X FAQs, or X manuals that I've seen. Does anyone have some type of\nfrequency data, like how many Copy-rectangle operations vs draw-lines, and\nthings of that sort? Or, barring that, a program that records requests to\nthe server into a logfile that I can munge on myself?\n\nAny and all help would be very appreciated.\n\nMany thanks,\n ---Mark", "OK. Instead of holding an auction, I have decided to compute prices for each comic (after many suggestions). These are the most reasonable prices I can give (not negotiable). If you would like to purchase a comic (or group), simply email me with the title and issue #'s you want. The price for each issue is shown beside each comic. First come, first served!!! There is no more bidding. Meet my price and it is yours. I can be reached at this email address:\n\n02106@chopin.udel.edu or\n02106@ravel.udel.edu or\n02106@bach.udel.edu or\n02106@brahms.udel.edu\n\nNO MORE HAGGLING ABOUT THE PRICE!!!!!!!!\nLOTS OF COMICS FOR $1, $2, or $3 LOOK AT LIST!!!!!\n\nFor all those who have bought comics from me, thanks!!!\n\nAll comics are near mint unless otherwise noted (my books were graded by\nmile high comics and other comic professional collectors, not me!)\n\nHere is the list:\n\n\n\nIncredible Hulk\n156 (vs another Hulk) $3\n195 $2\n196 $2\n246 (vs Captain Marvel) $1\n248 $1\n249 $1\n250 (Double size issue vs Silver Surfer) $5\n255 (vs Thor) $1\n279 $1\n300 $2\n312 $2\n313 $1\n316 (vs Bi Coastal Avengers) $1\n347 $1\n348 $1\n350 (vs Thing) $2\n354 $1\n358 $1\n360 $1\n362 (vs Werewolf By Night) $2\n364 $1\n365 $1\n366 $1\n379 (1 copy) $5\n\n\nPunisher\n50 $1\n57 $2\n\nPunisher War Journal\n29 (Ghost Rider) $2\n30 (Ghost Rider) $2\n\nPunisher Armory\n1 $4\n2 $2\n\nOriginal Ghost Rider Rides Again (Reprint)\n1 $1\n\nGhost Rider (old series)\n37 $3\n43 (vs Johnny Blaze) $3\n77 (2 copies, origin of GR dream) $4 each\n\nGhost Rider (new series)\n15 (1st print, Green glow in dark cover, 1 copy) $5\n15 (2nd print, gold cover w/ glow cover) $3\n\nWeb of Spiderman\n56 (2 copies) $2 each\n60 $3\n69 (vs Hulk, 1 copy left!!!) $2\n70 (SpiderHulk, 1 copy left!!!) $2\n71 $1\n72 $1\n78 $1\n\nDeadly Foes of Spiderman\n1 (2 copies) $2 each\n2 $2\n3 $2\n\nAmazing Spiderman vs Dr. Octopus (special NACME issue) $2\n\nAmazing Spiderman \n350 (vs Dr. Doom, 1 copy LEFT!!!) $2\n\nSpiderman (1990)\n1 (silver, not bagged) $4\n6 $3\n7 $3\n8 (2 copies) $2 each\n9 (w/ Wolverine, 1 COPY LEFT!!!) $2\n10 $2\n11 $1\n13 $5\n16 $1\n\nNew Warriors\n1 (gold cover) $2\n8 $4\n10 $2\n11 $1\n12 $1\n13 $1\n14 (w/ Darkhawk) $1\n15 $1\n\nSuperman Man of Steel #1 $2\n\nSuperman (new)\n53 (2 copies) $1 each\n55 $1\n56 $1\n\nAdventures of Superman \n479 $1\nAnnual #3 $1\n\nSuperman Annual #3 (Armegedon 2001 tie in) $1\n\nAction Comics #666 $1\n\nAvengers West Coast #69 (Hawkeye vs US Agent) $1\n\nBatman\n465 (Robin returns) $2\n466 $1\n467 $1\nAnnual #15 (Armegedon 2001 tie in) $3\n\nCaptain America \n230 (vs Hulk) $2\n257 (vs Hulk) $1\n\n\nArmegedon 2001 \n1 $4\n2 $2\n\n\nFoolkiller #1 $2\n\n\nInfinity Gauntlet \n1 $6\n4 $3\n5 $3\n\nDouble Dragon #1 $1\n\nDeathlok (series) \n2 $1\n\nTransformers #80 (last issue) $2 \n\nWonder Man\n1 $1\n2 $1\n\nFlaming Carrot #25 (w/ Ninja Turtles) $2\n\nThe Comet #1 $1\n\nLegend of the Shield #1 $1\n\nJustice Society of America\n1 $1\n2 $1\n3 $1\n4 $1\n\nOfficial movie mag from Turtles II movie (sealed w/ Jelloman comic) $5\n\nRobin \n1 (1 copies w/ poster) $3\n1 (3rd print) $1\n5 (6 copies) $1 each\n\nGuardians of the Galaxy \n1 $6\n2 $3\n3 $2\n4 $2\n5 $2\n6 $2\n7 $2\n8 $2\n9 (2 copies) $3 each\n10 $2\n11 $2\n12 $1\n13 $3\n14 $3\n15 $1\n16 $1\n17 $1\n18 (2 copies) $2 each\n\nSuperman vs Amazing Spiderman (oversized issue from 70's) $7\n\nDarkHawk\n1 (3 copies) $8 each\n2 (2 copies) $6 each\n3 $5\n4 $4\n5 $4\n6 $3\n7 $2\n8 $2\n9 $3\n10 $1\n\nThor\n246 $1\n428 $1\n429 (vs Juggernaut) $2\n430 (w/ Ghost Rider) $1\n431 $1\n432 (Thor vs Loki, 2 copies) $3 each\n433 (new Thor) $2\nAnnual #16 $1\n\nWhat if....\n13 $1\n23 $1\n25 $2\n26 $1\n\nAlpha Flight\n29 $1\n51 $6\n53 $6\n94 (vs Fant. 4) $1\n\nNew Mutants\n22 $2\n100 (last issue, 1st look at X-Force, 1st print, 2 copies) $5 each\n100 (2nd print, gold cover) $4\n\nFlash (new)\n43 $1\n48 $1\n49 $1\n50 $2\n51 $1\nAnnual #4 $1\n\n\nX-Men (new)\n1 (all 5 covers) $1 each but $2 for magneto foldout cover\n\nUncanny X-Men\n191 $3\n215 $2\n255 (2 copies) $2 each\n258 $6\n268 (1 sold,1 copy left!, Lee reg artist) $10\n275 (1 COPY LEFT 1st print) $6\n275 (gold 2nd print) $3\n276 $3\n277 $3\n278 $2\n279 $2\n280 $2\n281 $3\n282 $4\n283 $6\n\nDefenders\n52 (Hulk vs Sub Mariner) $2\n\n\nFantastic Four\n347 $4\n348 $2\n349 (3 copies) $2 each\n\nWolverine\n11 $3\n20 $2\n41 (w/ Cable, 2 copies) $6 each\n42 $4\n43 $3\n\nSilver Surfer (1987)\n1 $6\n2 $3\n3 $3\n4 $3\n5 $2\n6 $2\n8 $2\n22 $2\n24 $2\n32 $2\n49 $2\n50 (Foil cover, only 1 copy left!!) $6\n51 $2\n52 $2\n53 $1\n54 $1\n55 $1\n56 $1\n58 $2\n59 $2\n\nAvengers\n326 $3\n328 (origin of Rage) $3\n\nX-Factor\n40 $6\n67 $3\n68 $6\n71 $3\n73 $1\n\nQuasar\n21 $1\n22 $1\n23 $1\n24 $1\n\nGreen Lantern (1990)\n3 $2\n9 (2 copies) $1 each\n10 $1\n11 $1\n12 $1\n\nToxic Avenger\n1 (3 copies) $1 each\n2 $1\n\nSleepwalker\n1 (3 copies) $2 each\n3 $1\n7 $1\n\nKool Aid Man #1 (sealed in white bag, 2 copies) $2 each\n\nX-Force\n1 (bagged w/ Cable Card) $4\n1 (bagged w/ Shatterstar Card) $3\n2 $2\n3 $1\n4 $1\n\nNFL Superpro\n1 $1\n\nDr. Strange #31 $1\n\nHawkworld Annual #2 (2nd print, Armegedon 2001 tie in) $1\n\nHawk & Dove Annual #2 (Armegedon 2001 tie in) $1\n\nJustice League of America Annual #5 (Armegedon 2001 tie in) $1\n\n\n\nSend all bids and comments to\n\n02106@chopin.udel.edu\n\nThanks\nSam (the \"ex\" comic book collector)\n", "\n\n\nThat's a standby unit not a UPS, otherwise there would be no interuption.\nMany standby units are labled as UPS's though. \n \t\t\tMorgan Bullard mb4008@coewl.cen.uiuc.edu\n\t\t\t\t or mjbb@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu\n\n\n", "\n :Because of some contract, IBM is not allowed to sell its\n :486 chips to third parties, so these chips are unlikely to become\n :available in any non-IBM machines. \n\nI saw in this months PC or PC World an ad for computers using IBM's 486SLC.\nSo I don't think IBM is restricted in selling their chips, at least not\nanymore. A clock-tripled 486, even without coprocessor would be great,\nespecially with 16k on-board cache. Make it 386 pin-compatible, and you\nhave the chip upgrade that dreams are made of :-)", "I have a MacIIFX and I know that it is wired about its SCSI chain.\n\nI just bought a drive and I need to find out a few hardcore SCSI question:\n\nDoes the IIFX SCSI chain want to see active or passive termination?\n\nDoes the IIFX SCSI spec want me to enable the initiation of the SDTR message?\n\nWHat does the IIFX SCSI spec want as far as parity checking?\n\nThese are some very good questions for the FAQ. \nIf someone does not have time to answer these questions but does know \nwhere I can look them up please let me know and I will repost the answers\nfor everyone to see.\n\nthanks,", "\n\n\n\nYes, and the idea was ripped off from Adobe, which has had a program\ncalled TypeAlign for a few years now. TypeAlign does the same thing\nfor Adobe Type 1 fonts; *and* Adobe has said that the next version\nwill work with both Adobe Type 1 and TrueType.\n\nAnd TypeAlign does some things that TrueEffects does not - including\nsome things you apparently want ...\n\n\n", "Has anyone had experience buying computers from Comtrade? When I asked about \nTC, I got one reply describing problems returning a defective hard drive.\nShould I expect any problems from Comtrade?\n\nThanks,", "Does anyone know what causes the ever-growing black border around the\nedges of my computer screen? The growth has been gradual so I don't\nknow how long it's taken to get this bad. I have a 19\" DEC (?)\ncolor monitor, maybe five years old, and the black border is about 1.1\ninches on the left and right sides, about 1.75 inches on the bottom and\nnegligible at the top of the screen. The only controls are\nbrightness knob, contrast knob, deGauss switch, and power switch.\n\nIs there anything to be done, or are the monitor's days numbered?", "I was recently talking to a possible employer ( mine! :-) ) and he made a reference to a\n48-bit graphics computer/image processing system. I seem to remember it being called IMAGE or\nsomething akin to that. Anyway, he claimed it had 48-bit color + a 12-bit alpha channel. That's\n60 bits of info--what could that possibly be for? Specifically the 48-bit color? That's 280\ntrillion colors, many more than the human eye can resolve. Is this an anti-aliasing thing? Or\nis this just some magic number to make it work better with a certain processor.\n\n\tAlso, to settle a bet with my roommate, what are SGI's flagship products? I know of\nIris, Indigo, and Crimson, but what are the other ones, and which is their top-of-the-line?\n(sadly, I have access to none of them. Just a DEC 5000/25. Sigh.)", "I have been posting monthly \"how-to-setup a SLIP client on a PC\" posts for a \nfew months. Lots of work, and imminent graduation have come in the way of \nposting one of these for March or earlier this month -- for which I apologize.\n\nThis file includes information on writing a script for University of Minnesota\nPHONE, and also a batch file hack that lets you use other packet drivers with \nPHONE. \n\nFor additions, modifications and corrections, I can be reached at\n\n\nBest wishes,\nAshok\n\n-- begin SLIP.TXT --\nBased on my experiences on setting up SLIP under DOS and Windows, here\nare my comments on setting up SLIP in this environment. I thank the\nTrumpet beta testers and the CWRU SLIP beta testers for their comments.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nConfiguring your Modem:\n\na) Turn off DTR (AT&D0&W)\n I have to disable DTR because the communication program that I use\n to dial my SLIP server (QMODEM) drops DTR when I exit the program\n and therefore hangs up the line. If you use a program like Kermit\n or Conex to establish the SLIP connection, then this need not be done.\n These programs do not necessarily hangup the line when you exit.\n\n NOTE: If you use Univ. of Minn. PHONE to dial and establish a\n SLIP connection, you do not need to turn off DTR.\n\nb) Dial and establish the SLIP connection first. This can be done\n automatically if you use a program like PHONE (from the University of\n Minnesota) which will dial and establish a SLIP connection then load the\n SLIP packet driver. The PHONE scripting language is simple and\n phone scripts can be easily written to configure PHONE to work with\n other SLIP server. In addition, while the only packet driver\n that PHONE works with is UMSLIP (currently), it is easy to write a\n batch file hack that lets PHONE work with other packet drivers.\n There is a section on PHONE in the document with both script and\n batch file examples.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nConfiguring the SLIP drivers:\n\nThere are five SLIP packet drivers commonly available\nCSLIPPER.EXE Peter Tattam's compressed SLIP driver\nSLIPPER.EXE Peter Tattam's SLIP driver\nSLIP8250.COM Crynwr driver (I like Phil Burn's modified driver)\nETHERSL.COM Crynwr driver (ethernet simulation over SLIP)\nUMSLIP.COM Univ. of Minnesota driver (based on SLIP8250)\n\nOf these four, I vastly prefer C/SLIPPER.EXE over SLIP8250.COM or\nETHERSL.COM for the following reasons:\n\na) It is much faster even though my modem has just a 16450 UART\nb) While using EtherSLIP/SLIP8250/UMSLIP, myself and several others\n have noticed that the PC clock gets messed up after performing a\n long FTP transfer.\nc) It supports PKTMUX when used in ethernet simulation mode\nd) When used in Ethernet simulation mode C/SLIPPER seem to work with\n every TCP/IP application that I have tested it with.\n\nInstructions for C/SLIPPER.EXE (and you do not use PHONE)\na) Load SLIPPER in your AUTOEXEC.BAT file according to instructions:\n For instance if you have a v.32bis modem on COM1\n slipper com1 vec=62 baud=57600\nb) If you use DOS TCP/IP applications in Win 3.1 DOS boxes, then use the\n double-ended packet driver shim WinPKT.COM -- this creates a virtual\n packet driver at 0x60. DOS applications in native mode, DOS\n applications in Windows 3.1 DOS boxes and Windows applications can all\n use this virtual driver at 0x60.\n winpkt.com 0x60 0x62\nc) If you use QVT/Net, load PKTINT.COM next. QVT/net is configured in\n QVTNET.INI to use the interrupt at 0x60.\n pktint.com\n\nInstructions for SLIP8250.COM:\na) Try getting a version 10 SLIP driver. Philip Burns of Northwestern\n University has a modified SLIP8250.COM driver that is better at hardware\n handshaking. This driver is distributed along with NuPOP.\nb) Load the driver AFTER establishing the SLIP connection. My modem is a\n V.32bis modem on COM1, so here is how I would load the driver.\n slip8250 -w 0x62 -h 4 SLIP 0x03f8 57600\nc) As discussed above if you use DOS TCP/IP applications in Windows 3.x\n DOS boxes, you probably want to use WINPKT.COM\n winpkt.com 0x60 0x62\nd) If you use WinQVT/net, load PKTINT.COM\n pktint.com\n\nInstructions for ETHERSL.COM:\nIf you choose to use ETHERSL.COM instead of SLIP8250.COM, the\ninstructions are exactly the same with one crucial difference. You\nwill have to DELETE the line \"device=*vcd\" from the [386Enh] section\nof SYSTEM.INI. This will interfere with running regular Windows Comm\napplications (such as Crosstalk), and you will get lots of dropped\ncharacters etc. in these applications. This is therefore not\nrecommended. ETHERSLIP would be loaded as:\n ethersl -w 0x62 -h 4 0x03f8 57600\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nConfiguring Windows 3.1:\n\na) Make the following modifications to the SYSTEM.INI file [386Enh]\n section.\n i) List all your COM ports, with their addresses and interrupts.\n COM1Base=03F8\n COM1Irq=4\n COM2Base=02F8\n COM2Irq=3\n COM3Base=03E8\n COM3Irq=5\n This can also be done from within Windows - Control Panel,\n but double-clicking on the \"Ports\" icon.\n ii) Give the port to which your modem is attached a generous COM buffer\n COM1Buffer=10000\n iii) Change the COM port AutoAssign value for the COM port that you wish\n to use for your modem to ZERO. This is the amount of time that\n Windows waits in seconds before handing control of that COM port to\n another application. If you use WinQVT/net and then want to switch\n from one session to another, and this value is at the default value\n of 2 seconds, you are will get a GPF and Windows will crash.\n COM1AutoAssign=0\n This can also be done from within Windows - Control Panel.\n Double-click on 386 Enhanced, and under \"Device Contention\", set\n the device contention for the COM port your modem is on to\n \"Never Warn\"\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nAdditional notes:\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nWhat to do if you are assigned a different IP address for each\nSLIP session?\n\nI am fortunate in that our campus SLIP server assigns each user\na permanent IP address, so I do not have worry about editing QVTNET.INI\neach time that I establish a SLIP connection.\n\nIf you are assigned a new IP address on every occasion that you dial in,\nplease try to use BOOTP aware software, and let BOOTP do the\nconfiguration for you. However, QVTnet is not BOOTP aware and RARP\nwill not work over a SLIP connection. To get QVTNet working in a\nsituation such as this, you must do the following:\n\nEdit the QVTNET.INI file. Let the [net] section look like this:\n\n[net]\nname=\nip=\nnetmask=255.255.255.0 (or whatever is appropriate for you)\narptime=20\npacket_vector=60 (or whatever is appropriate)\n\nSave the changes, and then *write-protect* this file\n\"attrib +r qvtnet.ini\"\n\nStart your slip connection, and *remember* the name and IP address\nthat you are assigned. Each time you start QVT/net 3.1x, the\ngeneral configuration dialog box will open. Enter the name and\nIP address and you were assigned for that session, click on [OK],\nand you should be up and running. The changes you make will not\nbe saved, as QVTNET.INI is write-protected.\n\nA more elegant solution to the problem of dynamic SLIP IP address\nassignment is provided by Victor Menayang (victor@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu)\nVictor uses the program bootpq to semi-automate qvtnet preparation.\nBootpq is used to inquire the assigned IP, which is then saved to a\nfile called \"myip\". Another file \"noip\" is essentially a complete\nQVTNET.INI file that lacks the IP address. In the final step \"myip\"\nand \"noip\" are copied into a single QVTNET.INI file. An example of\nVictor's batch file is provided below:\n=====================================================\nslipper com2\npktint.com\nbootpq -i \"ip=\\\"%%s\\\"\" >> myip\nbootpq -i \"My IP# is: %s\"\ncopy /q net + myip + noip e:\\com\\qvtnet\\qvtnet.ini\ndel /q myip\n@echo off\necho .\necho Ready to run WinQVTnet\n=====================================================\nFor questions and more details about bootpq, please contact Victor\nMenayang (victor@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu)\n\nQPC Software is attempting to add BOOTP capability to WinQVT/net.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nHow do you use PKTMUX over SLIP?\n\nPKTMUX will not work over the SLIP8250.COM packet driver, and crashes\nimmediately if used with ETHERSL.COM\n\nPKTMUX will work with C/SLIPPER.EXE, when C/SLIPPER is used in ethernet\nsimulation mode. An example of this configuration is shown below:\n\nThe latest release of PKTMUX is 1.2c; and it is important that you\nuse this version, if you want to use virtual packet drivers with\napplications like Trumpet for Windows (to be released very shortly).\n\n[from AUTOEXEC.BAT]\n\nlh c/slipper com1 vec=65 baud=57600 ether (packet driver)\nlh pktmux 5 65 /5 (pktmux loaded for 5 virtual packet drivers)\nlh pktdrv 7f 65 (first virtual packet driver used for QVT/net)\nlh pktint.com (QVT/net pktint.com)\npktdrv 63 65 (PKTDRV for use in native DOS or WinTrumpet)\n\nAdditional virtual packet drivers can be loaded directly from within\nWindows 3.1 DOS boxes. For example, my PIF file to load POPmail is\ndirected to the file \"popmail.bat\". This is what popmail.bat reads\nlike:\n\npktdrv 60 65 loads a virtual packet driver at 0x60\ncd \\popmail\npopmail\ncd \\\npktdrv 60 /u unloads the packet driver at 0x60\nexit causes the DOS window to close\n\nI have similar batch files that load other DOS TCP/IP applications\nlike PC Gopher. It is my experience that PKTMUX works fine\neven if the virtual packet drivers in two independent virtual DOS\nsessions, are loaded at the same software interrupt. For example\nwithin two different DOS boxes -- one for POPmail and the other for\nGopher, the virtual packet driver (pktdrv) is loaded at 0x60 in each\ninstance.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nHow much does PKTMUX degrade the performance of C/SLIPPER?\n\nI have a V.32bis/V.42bis modem in a 386-33 running Windows 3.1 with\na reasonably fast video card (ATI Graphics Ultra). Under these\nconditions, when I have three virtual packet drivers loaded and\nbeing used as follows:\na) Driver at 0x7f -- QVTNet FTP client session\nb) Driver at 0x60 in one DOS Window -- CUTCP tn3270 session\nc) Driver at 0x60 in another DOS Window -- Trumpet for DOS\n\nI get FTP transfer rates of 0.8 - 1.0 kb/sec while transferring\ncompressed files. This rate is comparable to that which I get with\nSLIP8250 loaded as a packet driver, and where a single TCP/IP session\nis active. If CSLIPPER is used a packet driver and a single session\nis active, I get transfer rates of 1.3 - 1.4 kb/sec on the same\nfiles.\n\nWhile there is about 40% degradation in the performance of SLIPPER,\nfor me the benefits of being able to use PKTMUX outweigh the\nperformance hit.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nC/SLIPPER and ethernet simulation mode\n\nIn ethernet simulation mode, C/SLIPPER ver 1.3 works with all the\napplications that I have tested it with. One or two applications\nthat required ethernet simulation balked at C/SLIPPER 1.2, but even\nthese rare problems have been resolved with ver 1.3\n\nWhen SLIPPER is used in ethernet simulation mode, and used with PKTMUX,\nI get some an error message in the QVTNet Console window that reads\n\"IP:incorrect packet type\" or \"IP:bad version number\". This does not\nseem to prevent QVTnet from functioning, although I cannot comment on\nloss of performance.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nWhat can you do if your DOS TCP/IP application does not work with\nC/SLIPPER in ethernet simulation mode?\n\nIn the rare event that you find a package that does not work with\nC/SLIPPER in ethernet simulation mode, first contact the author --\nPeter Tattam -- PETER@psychnet.psychol.utas.edu.au, and let him\nknow. Chances are that he can fix it.\n\nIn the meanwhile, you can try the following. I do not know if it is\nkosher, but it worked when I had problems with C/SLIPPER ver 1.2\n\n(C/SLIPPER is loaded at 0x62 as described above under the PKTMUX section)\n\nI load ETHERSL.COM at 0x60, run the application and then terminate\nETHERSL.COM\n\nThis also works within Windows 3.1 virtual DOS boxes. However a\npacket driver like ETHERSL can be used in only one virtual DOS box\nat a time.\n\nSo for example, here is my batch file to run Grateful Med (a\nmedical reference retrieval program developed at the National Library\nof Medicine).\n\nethersl -w 0x60 -h 4 0x03f8 57600 loads ETHERSLIP\ncd \\gm6\nsearch\ncd \\\ntermin 0x60 terminates ETHERSLIP\nexit closes the DOS box and returns me to Windows\n\nIf you use this method, be cautious about one thing -- don't have\nany active PKTMUX DOS sessions open at the same time. After closing\nthe ETHERSL window, you can run your PKTMUX DOS sessions with no\nproblem. BTW, the example above -- Grateful Med, works with no\nproblems with C/SLIPPER ver 1.3\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nPHONE Script Files:\n\nThe documentation that accompany PHONE, provide good instructions on\nwriting script files to get PHONE to dial SLIP servers other than\nthe University of Minnesota server. For example here is a script\nthat I use to dial a CISCO server at the University that I attend.\n\nBackground: To start a SLIP connection, I dial our terminal server,\nand login with a username and password. After doing so, I start a SLIP\nsession with the following command \"slip username-slip.dialin.cwru.edu\",\nfollowed by my password -- again.\n\nHere then is the relevant portion of the PHONE.CMD script file -\n#\n# CWRU-TS2 SLIP login script by Ashok Aiyar 3/26/93\n# Last revised 3/28/93\nProcedure Host.CWRU.Login\nTimeOut 60 'CWRU-TS2 terminal server is not responding'\nMessage \"CWRU-TS2 SLIP login script -- Version 1.1\"\nMessage 'Waiting for SLIP server to respond'\nQuiet ON\nExpect 'Verification'\nMessage 'Request for User Verification Received from CWRU-TS2'\nMessage 'Sending your user name and password'\nQuiet OFF\nExpect 'Username:'\nSend '%u<'\nExpect 'Password:'\nPrivate\nSend '%p<'\nReject 'Access denied' 'Your user name or password was not accepted'\nTimeOut 30 'SLIP server did not respond to your validation request'\nExpect 'CWRU-TS2>'\nSend 'SLIP<'\nTimeOut 10 'SLIP server did not respond to SLIP command'\nExpect 'IP hostname or address:'\nSend '%u-slip.dialin.cwru.edu<'\nTimeOut 10 'SLIP server did not respond to hostname'\nReject 'Bad IP address' 'Incorrect Hostname'\nExpect 'Password:'\nSend '%p<'\nReject 'Access denied' 'Password not accepted.'\nTimeOut 10\nExpect 'Header Compression will match your system'\nMessage 'Login to CWRU SLIP server successful'\nWait 1.0\nEndProcedure Host.CWRU.Login\n#\n#\nProcedure Host.CWRU.LogOut\n# Nothing special needs to be done to logout\nEndProcedure Host.CWRU.LogOut\n#\n# End of Script file\n#\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nHow to use packet drivers other than UMSLIP with PHONE?\n\nThe quick answer -- there is no \"clean\" way. Below is a batch file\nhack that I wrote to use PHONE with other packet drivers. In this\nexample, the packet driver is Peter Tattam's CSLIPPER. To use a\nbatch file like this, you must know the parameters with which you\nplan to use the packet driver -- i.e interrupt vector, baud rate,\nport address, and IRQ. This batch file requires UMSLIP.COM,\nCSLIPPER.EXE, and TERMIN.COM to be in the same directory\nor in your path ...\n\nAll that the BATCH file does is to let you dial the SLIP connection\nusing PHONE, load the appropriate packet driver, hangup the\nconnection, and unload the driver when you are done ...\n\n-- being CWRUSLIP.BAT --\n@echo off\nrem this batch file is an ugly hack of U. of Minn. \"SLIP.BAT\"\nrem awaiting a version of C/SLIPPER that can directly interact\nrem with PHONE\nrem CWRUSLIP.BAT file is used with PHONE.EXE to start a SLIP\nrem connection on CWRU-TS2\nrem last modified 3/28/93 -- Ashok Aiyar\n\n@echo off\ncls\ngoto start\n\n:start\nif %1. == ?. goto help\nif %1. == help. goto help\nif %1. == setup. goto setup\nif %1. == dial. goto forceD\nif %1. == hangup. goto forceH\nif %1. == quit. goto forceH\nif %1. == HELP. goto help\nif %1. == SETUP. goto setup\nif %1. == DIAL. goto forceD\nif %1. == QUIT. goto forceH\ngoto bogus\ngoto unload\n\n:forceH\ntermin 0x60\numslip >nul\nphone force hangup\ngoto unload\n\n:slipper\ntermin 0x60\nREM the following line must be changed to reflect the COM port,\nREM IRQ, baud rate, and software interrupt\nlh c:\\packet\\cslipper com1 vec=60 baud=57600 ether\ngoto end\n\n:forceD\ntermin 0x60\numslip >nul\nphone force dial\ngoto slipper\n\n:setup\ntermin 0x60\numslip >nul\nphone setup\ngoto help\n\n:unload\ntermin 0x60\ngoto end\n\n:bogus\necho %1 is not a valid command.\necho Try \"cwruslip help\" for a list of valid commands\necho.\n\n:help\necho --------------------------------------------------------------\necho Case Western Reserve University SLIP Setup\necho using Univ. of Minnesota PHONE\necho --------------------------------------------------------------\necho cwruslip setup modem settings, phone number, username etc.\necho.\necho cwruslip dial DIAL and establish the SLIP connection\necho cwruslip quit HANGUP the phone and unload the driver\necho cwruslip help this screen\necho.\n\n:end\n-- end CWRUSLIP.BAT --\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nWhere to Get What.....\n\nPeter Tattam's programs are archived at ftp.utas.edu.au (C/SLIPPER,\nand the Trumpet set of programs).\n\nWinQVT/net is generally archived at most Windows FTP sites,\nincluding ftp.cica.indiana.edu\n\nNCSA Telnet is archived at ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu\n\nNuPOP is archived at ftp.acns.nwu.edu\n\nPOPmail/PC, SLIPDISK, PHONE, and PC Gopher are archived at\nboombox.micro.umn.edu\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n-- end SLIP.TXT --\n\n\n", "\nIt helps to have some idea of the source of the distortion - or at least\na reasonable model of the class of distortion. Below is a very short\ndescription of the process which we use; if you have further questions,\nfeel free to poke me via e-mail.\n\n================================================================\n*ASSUME: locally smooth distortion\n\n0) Compute the Delaunay Triangulation of your (x,y) points. This\n defines the set of neighbors for each point. If your data are\n not naturally convex, you may have very long edges on the convex hull.\n Consider deleting these edges.\n\n1) Now, there are two goals:\n\n a) move the DistortedData(x,y) to the Reference(x,y)\n b) keep the Length(e) (as measured from the current (x,y)'s)\n as close as possible to the DigitizedLength(e) (as measured \n using the digitized (x,y)'s).\n\n2) For every point, compute a displacement based on a) and b). For\n example:\n\n a) For (x,y) points for which you know the Reference(x,y), you\n can move alpha0*(Reference(x,y) - Current(x,y)). This will\n slowly move the DistortedReference(x,y) towards the\n Reference(x,y). \n b) For all other points, examine the current length of each edge.\n For each edge, compute a displacement which would make that edge\n the correct length (where \"correct\" is the DigitizedLength). \n Take the vector sum of these edge displacements, and move the\n point alpha1*SumOfEdgeDisplacements. This will keep the\n triangulated mesh consistent with your Digitized mesh.\n\n3) Iterate 2) until you are happy (for example, no point moves very much).\n\nalpha0 and alpha1 need to be determined by experimentation. Consider\nhow much you believe the Reference(x,y) - i.e., do you absolutely insist\non the final points exactly matching the References, or do you want to\nbalance some error in matching the Reference against changes in length\nof the edges.\n\nWARNING: there are a couple of geometric invariants which must be\nobserved (essentially, you can't allow the convex hull to change, and\nyou can't allow triangles to \"fold over\" neighboring triangles. Both of\nthese can be handled either by special case checks on the motion of\nindividual points, or by periodically re-triangulating the points (using \nthe current positions - but still calculating DigitizedLength from the\noriginal positions. When we first did this, the triangulation time was\nprohibitive, so we only did it once. If I were motivated to try and\nchange code that has been working in production mode for 5 years, I\n*might* go back and re-triangulate on every iteration. If you have more\ncompute power than you know what to do with, you might consider having\nevery point interact with every other point....but first read up on\nlinear solutions to the n-body problem.\n\nThere are lots of papers in the last 10 years of SIGGRAPH proceedings on\nsprings, constraints, and energy calculations which are relevant. The\nabove method is described, in more or less detail in:\n\n@inproceedings{Sloan86,\nauthor=\"Sloan, Jr., Kenneth R. and David Meyers and Christine A.~Curcio\",\ntitle=\"Reconstruction and Display of the Retina\",\nbooktitle=\"Proceedings: Graphics Interface '86 Vision Interface '86\",\naddress=\"Vancouver, Canada\",\npages=\"385--389\",\nmonth=\"May\",\nyear=1986 }\n\n@techreport{Curcio87b,\nauthor=\"Christine A.~Curcio and Kenneth R.~Sloan and David Meyers\",\ntitle=\"Computer Methods for Sampling, Reconstruction, Display, and\nAnalysis of Retinal Whole Mounts\",\nnumber=\"TR 87-12-03\",\ninstitution=\"Department of Computer Science, University of Washington\",\naddress=\"Seattle, WA\",\nmonth=\"December\",\nyear=1987 }\n\n@article{Curcio89,\nauthor=\"Christine A.~Curcio and Kenneth R.~Sloan and David Meyers\",\ntitle=\"Computer Methods for Sampling, Reconstruction, Display, and\nAnalysis of Retinal Whole Mounts\",\njournal=\"Vision Research\",\nvolume=29,\nnumber=5,\npages=\"529--540\",\nyear=1989 }\n \n", "Does anyone know of a program for the PC that\nwill take AutoCad DXF format files and convert\nthem to a raster format, like PCX, GIF, etc?\nThanks in advance....\n\t\t\t\tED\n", "C >Hi:\nC >I have a 486DX2-66MHz computer to use with an A/D board\nC >for data acquisition on an AT bus...I'm having problems.\nC >The AT bus runs at 12.5 MHz - correct? So there should\nC >be no bus speed conflict. But I read somewhere that the\nC >new 486DX2-66 MHz CPU runs on a 33 MHz bus - is that for\nC >the local bus or the AT bus also - if so then I have a problem.\nC >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nC >When I run on non-turbo-mode the speed goes to 8 MHz and the\nC >A/D doesn't work. Please mail your views! Thanks.\nC >Vincent\nC >cyl5@musica.mcgill.ca\nC >\n\nThe STANDARD AT bus (ISA) runs at 8MHz, not 12.5 MHz, but some \nnon-stnadard ISA buses do have higher clock rates, but be careful, since \nsome boards don't work with faster than standard rates. For instance, my \n486 has adjustable AT bus speeds, and my PAS16 audio card chokes when I do \nAD data acquisition with a bus speed faster than 10MHz.\n\nThe fact that non-turbo-mode speed A/D doesn't work is weird. You may \nhave a motherboard with a hardware 'bug'. \n\n33 MHz bus on the 486DX2 66 does refer to the local bus. FYI: the AT bus \noperates asynchronously, and is linked to the local bus via a 'bus \ninterface', which is one function that your 'chipset'.\n\n-rdd\n\n---\n . WinQwk 2.0b#0 . Unregistered Evaluation Copy\n * KMail 2.95d W-NET HQ, hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us, +1 313 663 4173 or 3959\n ", "\n\n\n\n\n\nSee if Radio Shack has a National Semiconductor Adjustable Voltage \nRegulator, (National) part number: LM350T or LM350K. These devices are \nrated for an input to output differential of up to 35 Volts @ 3 Amps.\n\nDigi-Key Corp. has these parts, as well as several other useful regulators.\nIf you don't have their catalog, their phone number is: 1-800-344-4539.\n\nI can only guess that you may intend to recharge a 7.5 VDC nicad battery \nwith this device, and if I'm right, you may want to look through some of the \nhobbiest books to get various ideas for battery charging circuits, first.\n\nIf you get stuck, e-mail me your FAX number, if you have one, and I'll send \nyou some suggestions or schematics.", "Hi,\nCould some kind soul post me the max power/voltage/current ratings of\n2SC1096 and 2SA634 transistors, their conductance types and pinouts.\nThey are used in the sweep portion of a TV set.\nThanks in advance,", "I recently made the mistake of purchasing a SONY CPD-1320 monitor for my\nMac IIci. The monitor is very good, however it seems that the IIci does not\nsupport VGA (then why did you buy it you ask? I am stupid I reply). What I\nam looking for is a video card, preferably 8 bit, which supports VGA. I am\ninterested in any information I can get. Offers for the sale of applicable\ncards will also be considered. \n\nThanks in advance.\n\n", "Does anyone know it the Macintosh LC has Pin 7 (the Pin that enables better\nFlow Control)? I know the LC 1 & 2 doesn't have it, but what about 3? I have\nhad conflicting reports so far... Please help. Thank you.\n\n(BTW, do you use RezNova's NovaLink? Yes? E-mail me!)\n\n--- Via UCI v1.35 (C-Net Amiga)\n\n\nDennis T. Cheung\nThe DTC(tm) Corporation of America\nAmerica Online: DTC\nInternet: DTC%MLinkNet@HotCity.Com", "One more thing to add, the Orchid board vesa bios is only\nable to handle the 1 meg dram on board, the Viper however can\nutilize the 2 meg vram on board to support vesa modes such as\n1280x1024x256, 800x600x16 mil. and 1024x768x65536 under Dos.", "There are no MiniDocks with math coprocessors available right now and I am not\naware of any in development. Demand appears low for such a device right now,\nbut I'm sure some enterprising vendor would create one if there were sufficient\ndemand.\n\nLynn", "Does anyone know any sites/resources where I can find gadgets for the vuewm\nwindow manager? Such as types,actions,icons for the file manager and\nevent manager...etc....\n", "I have been unable to get COM 4 to work - diagnostic programs such as msd show\nnothing installed. I think the software options are OK - is there a known\nhardware conflict and/or workaround for this problemand CD ROM\nSystem is a G2K 486DX2/66 tower with ATI video card\nPorts are set as follows \n On board COMa = COM1 IRQ4 to external device\n Internal modem = COM 3 IRQ5\n DFIO port card primary port = COM 2 IRQ3 mouse\n On board COM B = COM 4 IRQ 9 <--- DOES NOT WORK\nI have run this from a boot disk with only command.com to eliminate softwar", "I'm looking for a printer driver for the Apple Imagewriter II. (This printer\nis actually the same as a Citoh 8510.\n\n--", "-- \n ||||||||||| \t\t \t ||||||||||| \n_|||||||||||_______________________|||||||||||_ jr0930@eve.albany.edu\n-|||||||||||-----------------------|||||||||||- jr0930@Albnyvms.bitnet\n ||||||||||| GO HEAVY OR GO HOME |||||||||||\n", "Don't know how to avoid the XOpenDisplay hang... but perhaps you could\nuse something else (such as zephyr, perhaps)?", "\n\nPersonally, I'll be blasphemous and say that if Microsoft keeps doing\nwhat it does so well, I hope to see much harsher/stricter copyright\nand patent laws for computer algorithms, concepts, interfaces, and\nother intellectual properties to protect real innovators. I'd hate to\nbe one who actually does innovate, and then have Microsoft come in\nlike a huge vulture and use their brute mass (development staff,\nmarketing, etc) to get fat off of my innovation. I don't have all\nthat much sympathy for Apple's complaint against Microsoft, since\nthey just took the ideas from Xerox's PA Research Center when the\nFederal government forced Xerox to disclose their patents over\nantitrust fears. However, for other companies and individuals who\nhave a great idea, yet get it \"borrowed\" by larger corporations who\ncan afford to quickly bring it to market, without any licensing from\nthe original innovator, I feel much sympathy.\n\nLarry", "Sounds a little odd but I sold an Amiga hand scanner to\nan elementary school teacher in south Florida (Miami, I\nthink) but I have just recently found that I still have\nthe scanner manual. The original shipment included the\nsoftware manual, disks, packaging, etc.\n\nBasically, I have since lost the name & address of the \b\nperson I sold it to...and I would like to get it to him.\n\nIf that person sees this, please send me an email to:\n\ndlneal@cbda9.apgea.army.mil\n\nthanx, and sorry for taking up net space.", "\n\nWhat's the latest version of Stepping Out that works ok with S7.1?", "\nWhat about the ELSA WINNER4000 (S3 928, Bt485, 4MB, EISA), or the\nMetheus Premier-4VL (S3 928, Bt485, 4MB, ISA/VL) ?\n\n\nAs it just happens, SGCS has a Xserver (X386 1.4) that does\n1024x768x24 on those cards. Please email to info@sgcs.com for more\ndetails.\n\n- Thomas\n--", "Is there a way to use the mouse when running a DOS app (windowed) in\nwin 3.1? When you window a dos apps (in enhanced mode), I can see\nwhere the mouse cursor was, but it doesn't work! Any help\nwould be greatly appreciated. Thank you", "\nFrom the benchmarks I've seen (was that in MacUser or MacWeek?) the FPU-less\nCentris 610 is _faster_ at floating-point operations (the kind of calculations\nthat get routed to an FPU) than a Mac IIfx!\n\nAnd a Mac IIfx (68030 @ 40MHz + FPU) is _the_ fastest 030-based Mac.\n\nTake note, of course, that benchmarks never tell the whole story... Get your\nfavorite program(s) and run them on both machines at the store. They should\nlet you do that before you plunk down a hefty amount...\n\nVirtually,\nPhilippe", "Is there a typical component or set of components\nthat are at fault when a switch mode power supply \ngoes south?\n\nThe supply is for a disk drive. Any general hints\nwould be appreciated!\n\nThanks!\nMark-Tarbell@suite.com\nat fault when a switch mode power supply \ngoes south?\n\nThe supply is for a disk drive. Any general hints\nwould be appreciated!", "\nPlease see the post I made yesterday (May 10) which fixes the problem.\nThis was posted to comp.windows.x.apps.\n", "Hi. I was doing research on subliminal suggestion for a psychology\npaper, and I read that one researcher flashed hidden messages on the\nTV screen at 1/200ths of a second. Is that possible? I thought the\nmaximum rate the TV was even capable of displaying images was 1/30th\nof a second. (or 1/60th of a second for an image composed of only odd\nor even scan lines)", "Hi Everyone,\n\n\tI am looking for papers/articels/books or any other\n\tsource of information about Parametric/Variational\n\tDesign in CAD/Solid Modeling.\n\n\tAny suggetions/references would be greatly appreaciated.\n\n\tThanks in advance.\n\n\tJayesh", "\n\n\nNuBus is a much more robust system for system for installing multiple\ncards without configuration problems. I know that when I was checking\ninto expasion options for an SI there were a number of PDS video cards\nthat would not work with certian Dual slot cache adapters.", "\n\nThanks for the enlightening post. Is there a Technical Note on this?\n\nThe desktop machine I was referring to was actually not a Mac,\nbut rather, any of various workstations that use the\n68030@25MHz, such as old Suns or old NeXTs. I used to own a NeXT\n68030 cube. \n\nBut I will try rebooting without extensions to see what kind of\na speed difference I get with my powerbook Duo. I did notice an\nextreme slowdown to unusability with a Mac Plus after\ninstalling system 7 on it. Why does the OS suck up so much CPU\npower? \n\nAlso, you're right--software does make a HUGE difference. I\nhave the misfortune of using MS-Works on my Duo. When editing\nrelatively small (40K) files, cut or copy takes several\nseconds, often more than 6 seconds!! This happens with power\ncycling turned off. As usual, MS software is maggot-infested\nfeces. \nI'm getting Nisus to replace it for my text editing.", "A great many computer programmers read \"Dr. Dobb's Journal\". In a recent\nissue, there was a paragraph in an article that pained me greatly to read. It\n\n \"There's nothing wrong if Microsoft setting the standards for the computer\nindustry. The industry NEEDS an IBM for the 90's.\"\n\n Where has the hacker ethic gone? Not the \"cracker\" ethic, which is something\nentirely different and bad, but the hacker ethic, which tells us to value the\nfree distribution of information and yield to the hands-on imperative? Why is\nit that people and corporations like Bill Gates, IBM, and Intel are able to\nhave a virtual dead lock on the computer industry? Why is it that, if a person\nlike myself posts messages to Usenet on how to get into the little nooks,\ncrannies, and idiosyncrasies of a computer system, they are not given any\nuseful information by those who know, just a badmouthing? (or are completely\nignored) Why is it that people like Steve Jobs have to abandon their efforts to\nmake truly innovative products? I ask those of you who call yourselves\nhackers, why is this? And further, how can you let it go on? It is a fact\nthat the computer industry has changed the world, and shall continue to do so\nfor a long time to come. It has allowed the propagation of information in a\nvolume unheard of even twenty years ago, and has made this world even smaller\nthan it was before. I shudder to think what that world will be like if the\ncorporations are allowed to have their way, perpetuating more drivel like the\n286, Windows, and the IBM product line on the computer-using public. \n\n That is not to say I am against business per se; people who profit off of\ninnovative, intelligent, creative designs do not bother me. In fact, I applaud\nit; that is the American way. But those who manage to sell kludgy, uncreative\nsystems to the public, and profit off of them, are the ones who are the\nproblem. And, unfortunately, because they have enough money to make up for\nblunt stupidity, they can keep doing it for a very long time.\n\n I put it to you thus: Where HAS the hacker ethic gone? If it still exists,\nwhere? And, if it DOES exist, why are those who call themselves \"hackers\"\nallowing this to perpetuate itself? Why are they not creating new, innovative,\ninteresting ideas to stop the SOS from maintaining its choke hold on the\ncomputer industry?\n\n I await with interest what will probably be a resounding silence.", "I bought a 386DX33 system a little over 2 years ago, and was satisfied with\neverything about Zeos. That computer went off to grad school with my son and\nI replaced it with a 486DX2/66 pkg 4 (345 MBHD, 16MB ram) with Diamond Viper,\n128K level 2 cache, and tower upgrades, delete the CTX monitor. I got a\n17\" HP D1193A monitor employee purchase. This is a *great* system, fast,\nquiet, solidly built, not a single glitch bringing it up. Tech support seems \nbusier now than 2 years ago. I called with a configuration question, and\nthey called back 4 hours later with the right answer. I think there's a\nslight premium over Gateway prices, but IMHO Zeos is worth it. BTW they \nhave enough 800 lines that I've never gotten a busy signal calling sales,\ncustomer service, or tech support. Now, you usually wait 5 or 10 minutes to\ntalk to someone, but at least you get in the queue and wait on their dime. ", "\nThe CD300 (external) is already shipping and has been shipping for quite awhile \nnow. Demand for the units are high, so they are pretty rare. I've seen them \nlisted for around $525-550 at local computer stores and the campus Mac \nreseller. I've also heard rumors that they are bundled with a couple of CD's, \nbut I can't confirm it.", "I have a researcher who collecting electical impulses from\nthe human heart through a complex Analog to Digital system\nhe has designed and inputting this information into his EISA\nbus HP Vectra Computer running DOS and the Phar Lap DOS extender. \n\nHe want to purchase a very high-performance video card for\n3-D modeling. He is aware of a company called Matrox but\nhe is concerned about getting married to a company and their\nvideo routine library. He would hope some more flexibility:\nto choose between several card manufacturers with a standard\nvideo driver. He would like to write more generic code- \ncode that could be easily moved to other cards or computer operating\nsystems in the future. Is there any hope?\nAny information would be greatly appreciated-\nPlease, if possible, respond directly to internet mail \nto raymaker@bcm.tmc.edu", "Is it possible to have 2 Sound Blasters in 1 machine?\nWould give your the equivalent of a SB Pro but with stereo Digitized sound.\nThe way Creative Labs price Pro's in Oz, the price is equal.", "Will there be any support for round or circular widgets in Motif's next\nrelease?. I'd love to have a circular knob widget which could be used\ninstead of a slider.", "\n\nI had this problem when I first loaded windows. My I/O card is for 2 HD's\n2 FD's 1 Parrelel 2 serial (1 for mouse and 1 for my external modem) and\na game port. PROBLEM enters. The DARN serial ports have no selection for \nCOM settings, they are stuck on 3 and 4. \nGood card for HD's and FD's but lousy for serial. \n\nI called Microsoft and other places. The long and short of it is\nWINDOWS wants com1 and 2 ONLY!, for mouse selection.\nI went out and bought a small I/O card just for parrelel and serial.\nNow I have ALL 4 active COM ports and LPT1 and LPT2.\nThis Half card was less than $20.\n\nMouse on COM 1 external modem on COM 2, I disabled the LPT2 so I could use\nthe interupt for my scanner card IRQ.\nC-ya..... /\\/\\artin\n ", "Excerpts from netnews.comp.windows.x: 23-Apr-93 X Toolkits Paul\nPrescod@undergrad.m (1132)\n\n\n\nIf you're on the internet and your site isn't sheltered from external\ntcp/ip traffic, you can use the Remote Andrew Demo to see what the\nAndrew Toolkit looks like:\n\nRemote Andrew Demo Service\n\nThis network service allows you to run Andrew Toolkit applications\nwithout the overhead of obtaining or compiling the Andrew software. You\nneed a host machine on the Internet, and you need to be running the X11\nwindow system. A simple \"finger\" command will allow you to experience\nATK applications firsthand. You'll be able to compose multimedia\ndocuments, navigate through the interactive Andrew Tour, and use the\nAndrew Message System to browse through CMU's three thousand bulletin\nboards and newsgroups.\n\nTo use the Remote Andrew Demo service, simply run the following command\non your machine:\n\n finger help@atk.itc.cmu.edu\n\nThe service will give you further instructions. ", "Hi! Everyone,\n\nSince some people quickly solved the problem of determining a sphere from\n4 points, I suddenly recalled a problem which is how to find the ellipse\nfrom its offset. For example, given 5 points on the offset, can you find\nthe original ellipse analytically?\n\nI spent two months solving this problem by using analytical method last year,\nbut I failed. Under the pressure, I had to use other method - nonlinear\nprogramming technique to deal with this problem approximately.\n\nAny ideas will be greatly appreciated. Please post here, let the others\nshare our interests.", ": >What exactly does the windows bitmap format look like? I mean, how is\n: >the data stored: width, height, no. of colours, bitmap data? I couldn't\n: >find anything in ths user manual, is there any other reference material\n: >which would give me this information?\n\n: Well, this is *only* a guess: If it goes by the \"true\" meaning of \"bit\n: map\", then it holds (x,y,c) where x pixel number in th ex-direction, y:\n: pixel-number in the y-dir, c: colour.\n\nCome on fellows! The format is quite plainly explained in the manuals.\nIt's in the \"Programmer's Reference, Volume 3: Messages, Structures,\nand Macros\" (MSC-Dev.kit for 3.1, should be also in the Borland's\nmanuals) pages 232-241 (depending what you need).\n\nFirst there is the BITMAPFILEHEADER-struct then the BITMAPINFO which\ncontains the BITMAPINFOHEADER and the RGBQUAD and then the bitmap\ndata. AND there is also a example among the example files (MS_SDK).\nHope this helps....\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n ########################## | Yes, I do have some prior knowledge in this.\n ########################## | There is nothing dangerous in these dragons,\n #### / /// / | they are totally harmless... But my opinion\n #### / / / /// /// | is that kicking them might not be the right\n#### /// /// / / / /// / | way to test it. So shut up and RUN!", "\nAs of last week, Mac's Place had the Applied Engineering QuickSilver card\n(32k cache, one PDS slot, socket for FPU) on sale for $99.00 (without FPU).\nRegular price is $199.\n\nNo idea if this is still going on, but I can get the phone no. if anyone is\ninterested (I found their ad in MacUser).", "In the newer versions of Norton Backup for Windows (2.0 at least)\nthere is an \"emergency\" disk, which will allow you to restore\nfrom tape without reinstalling DOS/Windows (I understand it's sort\nof cumbersome to use, but not nearly as much as reinstalling\neverything!)\n", "Now available: xvertext 4.0 \n--------------\n\nSummary \n-------\nxvertext provides you with four functions to draw strings at any angle in \nan X window (previous versions were limited to vertical text). Rotation \nis still achieved using XImages, but the notion of rotating a whole font\nfirst has been dropped.\n\nWhat's new?\n-----------\nI've added a cache which keeps a copy of previously rotated strings - thus\nspeeding up redraws.\n\nWhere can I get it? \n-------------------\ncomp.sources.x (soon...)\nexport.lcs.mit.edu : contrib/xvertext.4.0.shar.Z (now)\n", "I am in the process of installing X11R5 on my Sun Sparcstation 2 and\nhave run into a problem. I imagine it has something to do with a missing\nscreen driver, or something along those lines, but figured someone out there\nin Internet land might be able to help.\n\nI am installing it on a machine that already has OpenLook installed, and would\nlike to have both installed concurrently. Thus, I set it up to compile to my\n/usr/X11R5 directory. I worked out all the kinks in getting it compiled (with\ngcc), so that it compiles without any warnings. I need it installed for PEX-SI,\nso I set all those appropriate flags. When I run it, however, I get a message\nalong the lines of:\n\nGetting interface configuration : Operation not supported on socket\n\nsunOpenFrameBuffer : Inappropriate ioctl for device\n\nFatal server error : no screens found \n\n\nAny ideas on how I can fix it? Please respond by e-mail at the below\naddress.\n\nThanks in advance.\n\n-Dan\n-- \n\"I do not want to be immortalized through my works; I want to be \nimmortalized through not dying.\" -Woody Allen", "Apple IIgs\nImagewriter II COLOR printer\nColor RGB monitor\n3.5\" DRIVE\n5.25\" drive\nkeyboard\nMouse\nlots of disks\nsome applications\nmost manuals", "Panasonic KX-P2124 24-pin Dot Matrix Printer\n\n\n-320 cps\n-1/127 in. dot diameter\n-16-character LCD\n-Super Quiet Mode\n-Draft, Letter Quality, Super Letter Quality Fonts\n-Rear, Bottom, Front, or Top paper feeding (Friction or Tractor)\n-Color compatible (needs optional Color Kit)\n-includes Windows 3.1 Panasonic printer drivers disk.\n\nBought it in Jan. '93 and have used it very little. Still has\noriginal ribbon cartridge. This is a very nice printer and is in\nbrand new conditio I just dont use it often enough and I need money.\n\nI'll take $200 for it. ", "\nIt's quite simple; the code is the week and year of manufacture.", ": I'm searching for a phonetic TrueType font for Windows 3.1. If \n: anybody knows one, please mail me!\n: \n: Thanks.\n: \n: dw \n: \n: \n: ##################################################################\n: Dipl.-Inform. Dietmar Weidlich # IfADo, Ardeystr. 67 #\n: weidlich@arb-phys.uni-dortmund.de # D-4600 Dortmund 50 #\n: Phone ++49 231 1084-250 # >> Dr. B.: \"Koennten Sie das #\n: Fax ++49 231 1084-401 # MAL EBEN erledigen?\" << #\n\nYes, I'm looking for phonetic font(s) too! So if you know one,\nplease mail me too!", "Iuj el \".ie\" (kiu lando?) demandis pri \"bitmap\"-oj, kaj iu el\n\".fi\" (Finnlando) respondis, dirante pri libro en \"Software Development\nKit\". Eble, la demandinto *ne* havas la \"elvolvilo por malmol-varoj\".\n\n (That was Esperanto.)\n\n (Some from \".ie\" asked about bitmaps, and some from \".fi\" responded,\nsaying about a book int the \"Software Development Kit\". Possibly, the\nasker does *not* have the development kit.)", "\nI had the exact same failure with the 24X and Word for Windows.\nA quick call to Microsoft indicated it was problem with the\n24X drivers. You need to call Diamond and get the new drivers,\nI think version 2.03 fixes the above problem, there may be later\nversions that I'm unaware of...\n\n ", "I'm considering writing my own widgets, but I like to have some sample\nwidget source code to look over first. Where could I find something\nlike this? Are there any archives accessible by anonymous ftp that contain \nsuch information?", "hi folks\ni have 2 hd first is an seagate 130mb\nthe second a cdc 340mb (with a future domain no ram)\ni'd like to change my 2 controller ide & scsi and buy\na new one with ram (at least 1mb) that could controll \nall of them\nany companies?\nhow many $?\nand is it possible via hw or via sw select how divide\nthe ram cache for 2 hd? (for example using dos that is \nabout all on one hd i'd like to reserve ram cache just to it)", "To: All\n\nGVC Technologies v.32 9600bps modem\n\n9600/4800/2400/1200/300 bps operation with Automatic Speed\nSelection.\nCCITT v.32/v.22bis/v.22/v.21 full-duplex operation.\nAsynchronous operation.\nAuto-answer & auto-dial: automatically switch between data and\nvoice transmission.\nSupports COM port 1-4, and IRQ 2-5\nAnalog/digital/remote digital loopback test modes.\nCommunication by Crosstalk software and manual included.\nModem manual & warranty registration card included.\n(Optional CCITT v.42bis/v.42/MNP 2-5 module, providing error\ncorrection and data compression to increase throughput up to\n38,400 bps, available directly from the manufacturer.)\nMint condition. $125.\nDO NOT REPLY TO: dino.fiabane@pics.com. Your mail will bounce if\nit is sent to that address. Instead, please reply only via\nprivate E-Mail to: pics!dino.fiabane@twwells.com\n(Since my home BBS can only handle personal messages through\nE-Mail for the time being, any further replies from me to you\nwill also arrive via E-Mail instead of by way of a regular\nnewsgroup.)\nDino Fiabane, 150 Weston Drive, Cherry Hill, NJ 08003-2132\nphone (609) 424-3836\n\n * SLMR 2.1a * reply to: pics!dino.fiabane@twwells.com via E-Mail\n ", "I have replaced the osz to 66 MHz yesterday and no truble at all. My Quadra now works at 33 MHz stable for more than 14 hours. I have also tried a 70 MHz osz, but after 1/2 hour my Quadra 700 died. I am not sure what was the reason for that,\nbut it is to risky to run it to fast. Most of your Quadras 700 should work at 33 MHz without any problems. \n\nBut a safety tip do a backup from your harddisk befor you start to upgrade. During my 35 MHz test I damaged my harddisk and had a hardtime to get it working again. So once again do a backup befor you start!!!!!!!!!\n\nNow the speedometer results after replacing the osz.\n\nSpeedometer Report for menes rainer. Prepared April 22, 1993.\n\nMachine Record Version #: 5\n\n\nUser Comment:\nQuadra 700 33Mhz and Ram Disk\n20 MByte RAM + 2 MByte VRAM\n\nSystem Information:\nComputer: Mac Quadra 700\nCPU: MC68040\nFPU: Integral FPU\nMMU: Integral MMU\nColor Quickdraw: 2.30 (32 Bit QD)\nSystem Version: 7.1.6\nFinder Version: D1-7.1\nAppleTalk Version: 57\nLaserWriter Version: D1-7.1.2\nLaser Prep Version: Not Found\nImageWriter Version: D1-7.0.1\nROM Version: $067C\nROM Size: 1024\nBit Depth: 1\nHorizontal DPI: 72\nVertical DPI: 72\nPrimary Screen Size: 832 x 624\nPhysical RAM: 20480K\nLogical RAM: 20454K\n\nP.R. Results (Uses Mac Classic as 1.0):\nCPU: 21.625\nGraphics: 30.052\nDisk: 28.351 Name of Hard Disk tested: RAM Disk\nMath: 135.128\nPerformance Rating (PR): 36.848\n\nBenchmark Results (Uses Mac Classic as 1.0):\nKWhetstones: 1500.000 205.479\nDhrystones: 26315.789 27.008\nTowers: 24.960\nQuickSort: 22.391\nBubble Sort: 23.823\nQueens: 24.105\nPuzzle: 28.804\nPermutations: 26.523\nFast Fourier: 167.728\nF.P. Matrix Multiply: 154.452\nInteger Matrix Multiply: 30.250\nSieve: 25.602\nBenchmark Average: 63.427\n\nFPU Tests (Uses Mac II as 1.0):\n@@FFPU Fast Fourier: 14.636\nFPU KWhetstones: 5454.545 7.636\nFPU F.P. Matrix Mult.: 14.333\nFPU Test Average: 12.202\n\nColor Tests (Uses Mac II as 1.0):\nBlack & White: 6.395\n4 Colors: 6.773\n16 Colors: 6.957\n256 Colors: 7.016\nColor Test Average: 6.785\n\nVery interesting are the graphics results (Graphics 30.052) couldn't belief this, but it is true. Two points which my cause problems are the 4 MByte Ram solder on the board. The are only 80ns Rams and run at the upperlimit with 33 MHz. The next part which may cause trouble are the Video Rams. I have the orignal 100ns VRAMs from Apple in my Quadra, here you are also at the upperlimit where most of the chips running but it isn't garantied to run. Most of the other parts on the Quadra board running on there o\n\n\n\n\nwn clockspeed so they wont make truble.\n\nThe most importaned question is do I neat a new heat sink. I would say NO. After running my Quadra for more than 14 hours the heat sink is really cool. A 33 MHz 486 with heat sink is mutch warmer than the 68040 in the Quadra, so I didn't see any problems. The room temperatur was 22 Celsius (72 F). If you living in a area were it is hot 100 F (45 C) and your room temperatur is not mutch below I would suggest a new heat sink with a ventilator to stay on the safe side.\n\n\nHope you will have the same success than I had,\n\nRainer", "I received a Kaypro 286i computer (DOS) without a manual that \ndescribes the jumpers on the motherboard. It came with\n640KB and I up'd it to 1MB. But the computer or setup does not\nrecognize the extra 384K. \n\nDoes anyone know if this computer is capable of greater than 640K\non the main board and what jumpers are required to expand it to 1MB?\n\nSome specs:\n\tKaypro main board assy number 81-621\n\tPhoenix BIOS v1.51 1985", "\n: Size is another factor. The BJ-200 is much smaller, but the HP is built \n: like a tank. I bet the BJ-200 would get damaged first.\n\nYou bet your bippy it's built like a tank.. and not just mechanically either!\n\nThis past weekend we had a nasty thunderstorm and the impossible (*&^%)\nhappened - I got a direct lightning strike on my house - and to the second\nfloor outlet box into which my faithful DeskJet 500C was connected. There\nwas a .303-bullet-sized hole in the aluminum siding with some solidified\naluminum slag dripping from it. You could actually see the electrical box\nthrough the hole! The outlet itself was fried and I'm still amazed the\nwhole damn house didn't burn down.\n\nI lost 2 electric garage door openers, 2 vcr's, 2 telephones (all of which\nwere on the opposite side of the house), a ZyXEL U-1496E high speed modem,\na VGA monitor, a 1024x768 color monitor, the RS232 and parallel ports on my\nX terminal and a WD LAN card in my PC. Not a good night!\n\nBut, the DeskJet ran as soon as I found a functioning serial and parallel\nport to connect to it.", "Condensers, Kimble Modern Liebig West #18003.\nJacket length 500 mm.\nAll glass, straight tubes.\nPlastic/gasketed end caps.\nExactly like Central Scientific's 14459 series condensers.\nBeing sold in American Science & Surplus's April catalog for ~$20 each.\nIn original (old) packaging.\n\nI have 13 of these. $15 each. Volume discounts:\n\n Buy Discount Bonus\n-------------------------------------------\n3 - 8 10% Free insurance.\n9 + 30% Free shipping and insurance.\n\nFor quality control, all have been opened and inspected for damage. :)\nBuyer must pay for shipping/insurance unless otherwise noted.\nShipping should be about $2.00 for one or two; $3.00 for three or four; etc.\nInsurance should be about $0.75 per tube.", "If the set is direct line powered, try checking the [likely to be\nthere] hybrid regulator module down stream from the 170 volt\nsupply. Several sets I've looked at use a 135 volt regulator. The\nregulators have a tendency to short out, making the safety circuits\nshut down the EHT supply section.\n\nTry putting the set on a Variac or adjustable transformer and lower\nthe AC input voltage to the set to about 90 volts. If the set\noperates nromally, then you know you've got a shorted regulator.\n\nThere are myriad other areas for problems, but I've seen the one\nabove several times. Also, if the set uses one, the trippler\nmodule may be shot; that's fairly common.\n\n", "\n: I also have a DX2/66 and a Maxtor 212. I have a local bus IDE controller (generic) and I get\n: 985 KB/s. I tried swapping my local bus IDE controller for an ISA IDE controller and my\n: transfer rate went to 830 KB/s. The specs for this drive show a maximum platter to controller\n: transfer rate of 2.83 MB/s. I dont know how to get there from here. The local bus interface\n: got me a little, but certainly not as much as I had hoped. I am also looking for a way to \n\nWhat is the deal with the IDE transfer rates? Is anybody getting throughput\nanywhere close to the platter->controller rate? I haven't seen anything\neven close to the 5MB/sec limit of the IDE interface. These drives are 1:1\n(non-interleaved), aren't they?\n\nHere are the rates I get:\n\n1) sequential read (MSDOS C program that uses bios calls to read 64-sector\n blocks sequentially from outside (first) track inward)\n\n 8mhz bus 10mhz bus\n -------- ---------\n MAXTOR LXT340: 860KB/sec 976KB/sec\n QUANTUM LPS240: 862KB/sec 887KB/sec\n\n2) disk buffer read (same C program, but re-reads the same block repeatedly\n so in effect is reading the RAM buffer on the drive)\n\n 8mhz bus 10mhz bus\n -------- ---------\n MAXTOR LXT340: 1046KB/sec 1212KB/sec\n QUANTUM LPS240: 1015KB/sec 1276KB/sec\n\n3) CORETEST V2.7 transfer rate (seems to agree with (2) above)\n\n 8mhz bus 10mhz bus\n -------- ---------\n MAXTOR LXT340: 1051KB/sec 1224KB/sec\n QUANTUM LPS240: 1026KB/sec 1298KB/sec\n\nI managed to get hold of the QUANTUM LPS240AT product manual and it goes\ninto excrutiating detail describing how the bits get from the platter,\nthrough the controller, and out the IDE interface. Nowhere do I see\nanything like \"after the bits are whipped of the platter at high speed\nthey sit around in a buffer to thaw before they are sent to the host\"\n(even though I SWEAR that's whats happening ;->). Here are some relevent\nquotes from the manual:\n\n \"Data is transferred from the disk to the read buffer at a rate of\n 3.75 MB/s maximum, 1.87MB/s minimum.\" (My calculations show 3121KB/sec\n maximum and 1578KB/sec minimum... disk spins at 4306 RPM with 87\n sectors per track on the outside and 44 on the inside)\n\n \"Single burst errors of up to 24 bits within one sector can be corrected\n 'on-the-fly', in real time as they occur, allowing a high degree of\n data integrity with no impact to the drive's performance.\" (I take\n this to mean error correction isn't the bottleneck)\n\n \"For page-mode operations, the data-transfer rate to and from the buffer\n RAM is up to 10.0 MB/s. This high transfer rate allows the AT Interface\n IC to communicate over the AT bus at a data-transfer rate of 5.0 MB/s,\n while the DCS simultaneously controls disk-to-RAM transfers\"\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nSo the thing can even do it's cache pre-fetch WHILE it's sending the\nrequested sector (it has 3 64KB read buffers for pre-fetching, I guess\nyou could call that a cache :-|).\n\nSo when I do a sequential read on the outer tracks, WHY am I getting a\nmeasly 862KB/sec when I should be getting around 3MB/sec???\n\nAny of you hard-disk engineers out there know?\n", "I commend everybody to look at the FTP site 'ftp.cicb.fr'\n-> Ethernet address 129.20.128.2 <-\nin the directory /pub/Images/ASTRO:\nthere are lots of images (all of kinds in astronomy subject)\nespecially in GIF format and a NEW ! directory of some JPL animations\n\nFor your comfort, README files in all subdirectories give size and\ndescription of each image, and a 7 days' newer images' list is in READMENEW\n\nNote: you can connect it as 'anonymous' or 'ftp' user, then the quota\n for each is 8 users connected in the same time.\n So, if the server responds you \"connection refused\", be patient !\n\n2nd note: this site is reachable by Gopher at 'roland.cicb.fr'\n -> Ethernet address 129.20.128.27 <-\n in 'Divers serveurs Ftp/Le serveur ftp du CRI-CICB/Images/ASTRO'\n\nIf you have any comments, suggestions, problems,\nthen you can contact me at E-mail 'rousself@univ-rennes1.fr'", "\t\t\t\t\t\t^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\t\t ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\n\tIf JD Power and Associates did the survey, I would like an \n\tanonymous ftp site to pick it up at. Only a sucker believes\n\tan MS released survey results about an MS product. Ok--assume\n\tthat the results of the survey, whatever they are, are 100%\n\thonest. If the results indicated extreme dissatisfaction with\n\tthe product, is MS going to tell us to stop buying MS-DOS 6.0\n\tbecause it sux? :-) Sure....\n\n\n\tWell, these \"statistics\" are to shut people up and add some\n\tmicroscopic weight to MS' arguments. As I just said, you have\n\tseen what automakers do. Who is going to believe Chrysler if\n\tthey tell us, \"In a 'random' Chrysler-conducted survey...\"\n\tMy theory about certain people is that they are convinced that\n\tif a point is maintained long enough, it is true. After all,\n\twhat is the focus of this company? Information. Money and\n\tinformation. Technology is, for some, an expedient toward\n\tthese ends. Why did Bill Gates drop out of college? \n\tWas it because he couldn't afford it at the time? Was it\n\tbecause (as the WSJ says) he couldn't wait to use what he\n\tknew to go out and make money? Bill Gate's answer to this\n\tquestion would be highly interesting. I await it.\n\tI can't stomach Bill declaring himself a visionary and\n\tusing every available opportunity to build up the cult\n\taround himself and then having MS sell DOS and Windoze\n\tas their main stays. \n\n\n ---------------------------------------------", "\n Path: dime!ymir.cs.umass.edu!nic.umass.edu!noc.near.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!waikato.ac.nz!ldo\n From: ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Waikato University)\n Newsgroups: comp.multimedia,comp.graphics\n Date: 26 Apr 93 05:09:15 GMT\n References: <1993Mar31.074502.3590@aragorn.unibe.ch> <1993Apr16.212441.34125@rchland.ibm.com>\n Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand\n Lines: 67\n Xref: dime comp.multimedia:6358 comp.graphics:32606\n\n OK, with all the discussion about observed playback speeds with QuickTime,\n the effects of scaling and so on, I thought I'd do some more tests.\n\n First of all, I felt that my original speed test was perhaps less than\n realistic. The movie I had been using only had 18 frames in it (it was a\n version of the very first movie I created with the Compact Video compressor).\n I decided something a little longer would give closer to real-world results\n (for better or for worse).\n\n I pulled out a copy of \"2001: A Space Odyssey\" that I had recorded off TV\n a while back. About fifteen minutes into the movie, there's a sequence where\n the Earth shuttle is approaching the space station. Specifically, I digitized\n a portion of about 30 seconds' duration, zooming in on the rotating space\n station. I figured this would give a reasonable amount of movement between\n frames. To increase the differences between frames, I digitized it at only\n 5 frames per second, to give a total of 171 frames.\n\n I captured the raw footage at a resolution of 384*288 pixels with the Spigot\n card in my Centris 650 (quarter-size resolution from a PAL source). I then\n imported it into Premiere and put it through the Compact Video compressor,\n keeping the 5 fps frame rate. I created two versions of the movie: one scaled\n to 320*240 resolution, the other at 160*120 resolution. I used the default\n \"2.00\" quality setting in Premiere 2.0.1, and specified a key frame every ten\n frames.\n\n I then ran the 320*240 movie through the same \"Raw Speed Test\" program I used\n for the results I'd been reporting earlier.\n\n Result: a playback rate of over 45 frames per second.\n\n That's right, I was getting a much higher result than with that first short\n test movie. Just for fun, I copied the 320*240 movie to my external hard\n disk (a Quantum LP105S), and ran it from there. This time the playback rate\n was only about 35 frames per second. Obviously the 230MB internal hard disk\n (also a Quantum) is a significant contributor to the speed of playback.\n\n I modified my speed test program to allow the specification of optional\n scaling factors, and tried playing back the 160*120 movie scaled to 320*240\n size. This time the playback speed was over 60 fps. Clearly, the poster who\n observed poor performance on scaled playback was seeing QuickTime 1.0 in\n action, not 1.5. I'd try my tests with QuickTime 1.0, but I don't think it's\n entirely compatible with my Centris and System 7.1...\n\n Unscaled, the playback rate for the 160*120 movie was over 100 fps.\n\n The other thing I tried was saving versions of the 320*240 movie with\n \"preferred\" playback rates greater than 1.0, and seeing how well they played\n from within MoviePlayer (ie with QuickTime's normal synchronized playback).\n A preferred rate of 9.0 (=> 45 fps) didn't work too well: the playback was\n very jerky. Compare this with the raw speed test, which achieved 45 fps with\n ease. I can't believe that QuickTime's synchronization code would add this\n much overhead: I think the slowdown was coming from the Mac system's task\n switching.\n\n A preferred rate of 7.0 (=> 35 fps) seemed to work fine: I couldn't see\n any evidence of stutter. At 8.0 (=> 40 fps) I *think* I could see slight\n stutter, but with four key frames every second, it was hard to tell.\n\n I guess I could try recreating the movies with a longer interval between the\n key frames, to make the stutter more noticeable. Of course, this will also\n improve the compression slightly, which should speed up the playback performance\n even more...\n\n Lawrence D'Oliveiro fone: +64-7-856-2889\n Computer Services Dept fax: +64-7-838-4066\n University of Waikato electric mail: ldo@waikato.ac.nz\n Hamilton, New Zealand 37^ 47' 26\" S, 175^ 19' 7\" E, GMT+12:00\n\n\nI'm afraid I missed the start of this thread, but there are three factors that\ncan significantly affect QuickTime's playback speed that you may want to take\ninto account:\n\n(1) playback bit depth (things are fastest when you play a\nmovie back at the bit depth it was compressed for, this is usually 8 or 16\nbit, but other depths are (of course) possible).\n\n(2) type of scaling (QT is optimized for \"double size\" scaling, other scaling\nfactors hit peformance much harder).\n\n(3) playback window position (MoviePlayer limits your window placement choices\nto advantagous pixel boundaries by default, I'm not sure about Premiere).\n\nAny combination of those can radically alter playback performance. Image size\nis, of course, another biggie. Giving the movie player lots of RAM can also\nmake a real difference.\n\nForgive me if these were mentioned earlier in the thread...\n\n-Peter Lee\n\n ", "A friend recently bought a used 286. The brand is Syntrex. It didn't come with any documentation and I am trying to find some information about the computer. So the question is, has anyone heard of it? If you know anything about these please drop me a note.\n\nThank you\n", "A while back (i.e., several months) someone posted a method for allowing \na user to choose (via XMenu and something else??) a window manager \ninteractively at X startup time. Could the original poster (or anyone \nelse) please Email a copy of the method to me, as I have lost the \noriginal posting? Thanks.\n\n______________________________________________________________________________\nHenry Stilmack ) \nComputing Systems Manager ) Perform random kindnesses \nUK/Netherlands/Canada Joint Astronomy Centre ) and senseless acts of beauty\n660 N. A'ohoku Place, Hilo, HI 96720 ) \nhps@jach.Hawaii.Edu 808-969-6530 ) ", "I just bought a new IDE hard drive for my system to go with the one\nI already had. My problem is this. My system only had a IDE cable\nfor one drive, so I had to buy cable with two drive connectors\non it, and consequently have to switch cables. The problem is, \nthe new hard drive's manual refers to matching pin 1 on the cable\nwith both pin 1 on the drive itself and pin 1 on the IDE card. But\nfor the life of me I cannot figure out how to tell which way to plug\nin the cable to align these. \nSecondly, the cable has like a connector at two ends and one between them.\nI figure one end goes in the controler and then the other two go into\nthe drives. Does it matter which I plug into the \"master\" drive\nand which into the \"Slave\"? any help appreciated. thanks...\n", "So, will it be possible to have a NuBus or PDS PowerPC upgrade, or will it \nrequire a logic board swap? It would be interesting for Apple to come out with\na NuBus PowerPC that allowed use of the CPU's 680x0, like RocketShare. But I \nguess that's getting a bit fantastic!\n\nI was wondering, since MacWeek reported that developers were 'seeded' with\nPowerPCs on a NuBus card.\n\nAlso, any word on machine arrivals or estimated speed? Last I heard, the \nestimates were around 3-4 times the speed of a Quadra in native RISC mode. I\nheard an Apple employee mumble something about the arrival of PowerPC machines\nat a much earlier date that Q1 94, but I doubt it's true.\n\nFinally, is the PowerPC developer's CD 'mini-course' available? I saw it \nadvertised in the developer's university calendar, and I'd like to know if it's\nat all *interesting*.\n\nSean", "RFD \n Request For Discussion \n for the\n OPEN TELEMATIC GROUP\n \n OTG\n \n \n \n \nI have proposed the forming of a consortium/task force for the promotion\nof NAPLPS/JPEG, FIF to openly discuss ways, method, \nprocedures,algorythms,\napplications, implementation, extensions of NAPLPS/JPEG standards.\nThese standards should facilitate the creation of REAL_TIME Online\napplications that make use of Voice, Video, Telecommuting, HiRes \ngraphics,\nConferencing, Distant Learning, Online order entry, Fax,in addition\nthese dicussion would assist all to better understand how SGML,CALS,\nODA,MIME,OODBMS,JPEG,MPEG,FRACTALS,SQL,CDrom,cdromXA,Kodak PhotoCD,TCL,\nV.FAST,EIA/TIA562,can best be incorporated and implemented to\ndevelop TELEMATIC/Multimedia applications....\n \nWe want to be able to support DOS, UNIX, MAC, WINDOWS, NT, OS/2 \nplatforms.\nIt is our hope that individuals,developers, corporations, Universities,\nR & D labs would join in in supporting such an endeavor.\n \nThis would be a NOT_FOR_PROFIT group with bylaws and charter. Already \nmany\ncorporation have decided to support OTG (Open TELEMATIC Group) so do not \ndelay joining if you are a developer\n \nAn RFD has been posted to form a usenet newsgroup and a FAQ will soon be \nbe compose to start promulgating what is known on the subject.\nIf you would like to be added to the mailist send email or mail to\nthe address below. \n \nThis group would publish an electronic quarterly NAPLPS/JPEG newsletter\nas well as a hardcopy version.\nWe urge all who wants to see CMCs HiRes based applications\n& the NAPLPS/JPEG G R O W, decide to join and mutually benefit from \nthis NOT-FOR_PROFIT endeavor.\n \nNOTE: Telematic has been defined by Mr. James Martin as the marriage\n of Voice, Video, Hi-res Graphics, Fax, IVR, Music over telephone\n lines/LAN.\n \n \n \nIf you would like to get involve write to me at:\n \n \n \n IMG Inter-Multimedia Group| Internet: epimntl@world.std.com \n P.O. Box 95901 | ed.pimentel@gisatl.fidonet.org \n Atlanta, Georgia, US | CIS : 70611,3703 \n | FidoNet : 1:133/407 \n | BBS : +1-404-985-1198 zyxel 14.4k\n \nTo all that have responded we are trying to acknowledge as soon as\npossible. We have really been inundated with org, corp, edu willing\nto get involve.\nIt would be nice if upon responded you can state in what capacity\nyou are willing to get involve.\n\n", "\n\n\tBuild 59 still has a number of problems--sheared fonts, for \n\tinstance, if you have Crystal Fonts enabled. Some other problems--\t\n\t\"color darkening\" and some others. I don't use the drivers in \n\tany mode other than 1024x768x256, so if there are bugs in the\n\tother modes I can't say.\n\n\n\n\n\tTo be honest, up until now, I have only found one bug in the \n\tDiamond Viper drivers, and it seems innocuous.\n\n\tThat is, under Microsoft Word, select Format Border, click\n\tshading and take a look at the patterns. The 5% pattern\n\thas been swapped with the 90%, and so on. The whole list\n\tis _completely_ reversed--looks right onscreen, but take\n\tit to another machine (i.e., a GUP or ss24x machine) or\n\tprint it and iy shows--badly! \n\n\tKeep in mind that I use mainly 1024x768x65k mode, so I can't\n\tspeak for the others, but otherwise these drivers seem pretty \n\tsolid.\n\n-- \n\t\"What's big, noisy and has an IQ of 8?\"", "For sale:\n\nRoland D-50: $700 or best offer.\nExcellent condition.\nIncludes over 1000 patches on disk (In cakewalk sysex format)\n\nBuyer must pay COD shipping.\n\nPlease e-mail responses to:\ngms2@po.cwru.edu\n\nThanks.\n\nGeorge\n", "than\n\nFirst of all, I wouldn't advise wasting your time with Apple. They'll\ntreat you like an idiot and you won't get any answers (a personal\nopinion).\n\nThe safest thing to do is match the SVGA monitor's scanning rates with\nApple's rates. I don't know Apple's video scanning rates, but I use the\nMicron Xceed 30's rates, as they're a good approximation.\n\nAbout cables: you just have to go out to someplace like Fry's and get a\nfew Mac-VGA cables and try them out. I have a ViewSonic 5E (14\") and I\nuse an NEC adaptor. Other monitors may use other adaptors. I also have\na Mac->832x624 adaptor that tricks System into thinking the monitor is an\nApple 16\". I need to readjust the vertical and horizontal sizes but it\nworks fairly well.\n\n\t\"Just like everything else in life, the right lane ends in half a mile.\"", "\tDoes anyone know of a fractal terrain generator for Mac, something\n\tI could hopefully import into a 3D program like Swivel or Stratavision?\n\tI know Infini-D has built in capabilities, but I don't have access to\n\tInfini-D. I downloaded two programs from Umich, in graphics/fractals,\n\tbut both were from 1990-91 and crashed under System 7. I think they\n\twere Black and white anyway. Please, email me if you know of anything,\n\tas I don't check the newsgroups very often.\n\t\tThanks in advance.\n\t\t\tDan Bradley deb47099@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu\n\n", "Where can I find the MS windows version of ghostscript? Thanks..\n\n\n-- \n____________________________________________________________________________\n****************************************************************************", "I'm looking for the best source for SIMMs in the USA. I'm not looking for\n the lowest prices, but rather for the best quality SIMMs and the one with\n the lowest rate of defective SIMMs. I know the chip Merchant has good \n prices but they seems to have a high rate of returned SIMMs.\n Does anyone know how many SIMMs you have to purchase to obtain quantity\n discount ?.\n Thank you.\n\n", "I'm looking for recommendations for a laser printer. It will\nbe used mostly for text by a single user. It doesn't need to\nbe a postscript printer. Any advice would be appreciated.\n", "\nHave you tried setting FILES in your config.sys file to a fairly high\nnumber? (I've got mine set to 100; I've seen numbers from 40 to 100 \nrecommended). Also check your STACKS statement, STACKS=9,256 is a good\nstarting point. Try increasing it if it's already set there (such as\nto STACKS=12,256, etc.). Both STACKS and FILES have been identified as\n_one_ cause of frequent Win3.1 crashes.", "I'm looking for an old album or cassette tape. The group is Sanford/Townsend\nthe name of the album is 'Smoke from a Distant Fire' (I think). This album\ncame out somewhere around 1975-76, and I believe was the first album produced\nby Kenny Loggins after he and Jim Messina broke up.\n\nIf you happen to have this album and are willing to part with it, great. If\nyou don't want to part with it, but are willing to copy it onto cassette I'd\nlove that too.\n\nThanks\n\nJK", "\n\n\n\n\n I am sorry. My card can display about 17000K colors not 1700K colors.\n\n I hope some one could answer my question !\n\n Thanks.\n\n", "Hi,\n\nI just inherited an NCR 1204 external floppy. This thing has every port known to man on the back.\nThe question is: Does anyone know how to connect this thing to a PC. What hardware is needed?\nSoftware?\n\nTIA,\nAlex", "Greetings all,\n Does anyone use some form of 3D input device? I would like to hear any\ninformation on any systems that people are currently using...\n\nPlease email responses. I will summarise if I get some feedback.\n", "\nIt works for me. I've run Motif 1.1.3,1.1.4,1.1.5,1.2,1.2.1, and 1.2.2 on\nan X11R5 server with MotifBC defined.\n\n", "Hi. I'm writing a program to convert .dxf files to a database\nformat used by a 3D graphics program I've written. My program stores\nthe points of a polygon in CCW order. I've used 3D Concepts a \nlittle and it seems that the points are stored in the order\nthey are drawn.\n\nDoes the DXF format have a way of indicating which order the \npoints are stored in, CW or CCW? Its easy enough to convert,\nbut if I don't know which way they are stored, I dont know \nwhich direction the polygon should be visible from.\n\nIf DXF doesn't handle this, can anyone recommend a workaround?\nThe best I can think of is to create two polygons for each one\nin the DXF file, one stored CW and the other CCW. But that\ndoubles the number of polygons and decreases speed...\n\nThanks in advance for any help,", "\nOK, I don't use CView anymore, but I saw that no one had explaind this\n\"bug\" in the thread, so here goes:\n\nIt is NOT the fault of CView. It is DOS! If you leave a file open on a\nfloppy drive, then change the disk and do something which updates or closes\nthat file, you have a good chance of getting part of the directory and FAT\nfrom the other disk written to the new disk. This has always been true,\nand has destroyed data under other programs, not just CView.\n\nThe only thing CView can do to improve the situation is to try not to leave\nfiles open unless it's actively using them (ie, reading and decoding).\n", "I just read an article on the SWII. One thing puzzles me: the article says the\nSWII is a serial-only device. Does that mean I'll have to unplug my modem each\ntime I want to print something???\n", "I am having trouble obtaining the specified standby current drain from\na MC146818A Real Time Clock. Has anyone out there had some experience\nin doing this? The specs call for a few sequences to be met before\nstandby mode is activated, and are a bit hard to decipher on that, but\nI thought that I had it worked out. However, with a 32kHz crystal the\nlowest current drain I can acheive at 3.7V Vcc is 150uA. This is\nthree times the specified MAXIMUM under the conditions I am attempting\nto create.\n\nI have done the following things:\n\n1) Made sure that RESET/ is asserted for Trlh after powerup, and AS is\n low during this time.\n\n\n2) Made sure that there is a cycle on AS after the negation of RD/ or\n WR/ during which STBY/ was asserted.\n\nWhat am I doing wrong?\n\nThanks very much,", "I have the following CDs for sale for $6 each plus postage.\nAll CDs are in perfect condition.\n\n\nMichael Bolton Time, Love & Tenderness \nPaula Abdul Forever Your Girl\nTaylor Dayne Tell it to My Heart\nLionel Richie The Composer\nElvis Presley 18 Number One Hits\nBobby Vinton Greatest Hits\nSuper Hits of the 70's \n(includes Yellow River, Rose Garden, For the Good Times, \nHelp Me Make it through the Night, Mr. Bojangles, Sweet Mary, \nOne Toke Over the Line, Put Your Hand in Hand, Stay Awhile,\nWoodstock, Silver Bird, I Ain't got time Anymore)", "Hi:\n\nI am digitizing a NTSC signal and displaying on a PC video monitor.\nIt is known that the display response of tubes is non-linear and is\nsometimes said to follow Gamma-Law. I am not certain if these\nnon-linearities are \"Gamma-corrected\" before encoding NTSC signals\nor if the TV display is supposed to correct this.\n \nAlso, if 256 grey levels, for example, are coded in a C program do\nthese intensity levels appear with linear brightness on a PC\nmonitor? In other words does PC monitor display circuitry\ncorrect for \"gamma errrors\"?\n \nYour response is much appreciated.\n \nAmjad.", "..\ntry DraftChoice, its not windows but its shareware and object\noriented. Use it with PrintGL for high quality output.", "I'm trying to compile xftp which uses the Xw widget set and I'm having\nproblems. We're using Motif and X11R5 and it seems that my version of the\nXw stuff was only ported to R3. Are there patches out to port this to R5\n(or a newer port altogether)??\n\nOr perhaps a newer port of xftp for use with R5??\nThanks in advance.\n\n", "Radius 24X accelerated graphics adaptor. Supports multiple resolutions and\nallows on-the-fly changing of resolution or bit depth. MSRP $1999, street\nprice $1700, your price: best offer over $800.", "\n..\n\n\n\nHmmm... Sounds vaguely similar to a problem I had a long time ago when I was \ntrying to use Kermit. I was building a serial connection between my Duo 210 \nand my NeXT. I think the problem was in the handshaking. Basically, you need \nto make sure that the handshaking protocol is the same on both sides. A safe \nplace to start is by selecting NO handshaking on either end. One problem is \nthat the Zilog serial chip seems to get permanently wedged if you talk to it \nwrong, and only a reset will clear it. I don't know the specifics. But this \ncould be a nonlinearity that screws up your attempts at debugging the system. \nIt could very well be that you are doing things right--eventually-- but one \nwrong move (like trying a bad handshaking protocol) can screw up any further \ncorrect actions, until the next machine reset. I have wedged my Mac and also \nmy NeXT that way.\n\nNow I can send files back and forth between the Duo and the NeXT without any \nproblem, and at pretty high speeds too.\n\nI don't know what kind of chip the PC uses, but I think the Zilog 8530 is \npretty standard.", "\nNo. That's *not* what I was complaining about, nor did I intend to\nsuggest that DEC was any better than SGI (let me tell you about the\nLynx some day, but be prepared with a large sedative if you do...). My\ncomment regarding DEC was to indicate that I might be open to other vendors\nthat supported OpenGL, rather than deal further with SGI.\n\nWhat I *am* annoyed about is the fact that we were led to believe that\nwe *would* be able to upgrade to a multiprocessor version of the\nCrimson without the assistance of a fork lift truck.\n\nI'm also annoyed about being sold *several* Personal IRISes at a\nprevious site on the understanding *that* architecture would be around\nfor a while, rather than being flushed.\n\nNow I understand that SGI is responsible to its investors and has to\nkeep showing a positive quarterly bottom line (odd that I found myself\npressured on at least two occasions to get the business on the books\njust before the end of the quarter), but I'm just a little tired of\ngetting boned in the process.\n\nMaybe it's because my lab buys SGIs in onesies and twosies, so we\naren't entitled to a \"peek under the covers\" as the Big Kids (NASA,\nfor instance) are. This lab, and I suspect that a lot of other labs\nand organizations, doesn't have a load of money to spend on computers\nevery year, so we can't be out buying new systems on a regular basis.\nThe boxes that we buy now will have to last us pretty much through the\nentire grant period of five years and, in some case, beyond. That\nmeans that I need to buy the best piece of equipment that I can when I\nhave the money, not some product that was built, to paraphrase one\nprevious poster's words, 'to fill a niche' to compete with some other\nvendor. I'm going to be looking at this box for the next five years.\nAnd every time I look at it, I'm going to think about SGI and how I\ncould have better spent my money (actually *your* money, since we're\nsupported almost entirely by Federal tax dollars).\n\nNow you'll have to pardon me while I go off and hiss and fume in a\ncorner somewhere and think dark, libelous thoughts.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tspl", "Hi!\n\nI have several computer related books for sale. They are all new,\nunused and hence in excellent condition. The subjects include\nProgramming Languages (C, C++, LISP, PROLOG), Operating Systems\n(UNIX, DOS), Windows, X-Windows, LAN, AI, and Expert Systems.\n\nIf you are interested, pls. contact me at:\n\n\t\t\tparikhma@ucunix.san.uc.edu\n\nThanks.", "The following is posted for a friend. You can send replies to this email\naddress or call him at 503-752-1499. (Glen)\n\n\tI have a CITIZEN OVERTURE 110 Laser printer for sale. It is in\nexcellent condition. It has been used less than one year on this drum.\nI am asking $500, but all offers will be considered. Below are some\nspecs on it.\n\nToner lifespan:\t\t2500 pages\nDrum lifespan:\t\t15,000 pages\nResolution:\t\t300 DPI\nMemory:\t\t\t512K\nEmulation:\t\tEpson FX286\n\t\t\tIBM ProPrinter\n\t\t\tDiablo 635\nPrinting Capacity:\tQuad-density graphics\nTray capacity:\t\t250 sheets\n\nReason for sale: \tFinancial--I need to pay tuition.\n\nThanks,\n\n-Glen Anderson", "\nDo you know of the world-wide-web? This is a global hypertext (well, \nhypermedia) network running on the internet. One of the nice things\nabout it is that is understands and incorporates virtually all of the\nother systems being used, like WAIS, Gopher, FTP, Archie, etc. It\nis usually quite easy to add existing resources to the web.\n\nIf you'd like to explore, I'd suggest getting the XMosaic program,\nwritten at the NCSA. It's an X-windows web browser, and is pretty\nslick. It can understand and cope with more than text: gif, jpeg, mpeg,\naudio, etc. There are other browsers, including a text-mode browser\nfor people stuck on a text terminal, but I'm most familliar with mosaic.\n\nUnder the page \"The World-Wide Web Virtual Library: Subject Catalogue\"\n(this is available under the Documents menu in mosaic, or by any\nbrowser via the URL \nhttp://info.cern.ch/hypertext/DataSources/bySubject/Overview.html )\nthere is a subject \"Space Science.\" Currently this points to a\npage under construction, with only the NASA JPL FTP archive. I've\nvolunteered to take over this page, and in fact I have a replacement\nwith all sorts of information pointers (mostly gleaned from the\nsci.space FAQ). As soon as the overworked \"Subject Catalogue\" \nmaintainer switches the \"Space Science\" pointer, it'll be visible.\n\nI'll post a short note when this happens.\n\n-- \nFrederick G. M. Roeber | CERN -- European Center for Nuclear Research\ne-mail: roeber@cern.ch or roeber@caltech.edu | work: +41 22 767 31 80\nr-mail: CERN/PPE, 1211 Geneva 23, Switzerland | home: +33 50 20 82 99", ") The documentation says that Wordperfect for windows, requires 4 M of ram, but\n)when I try to install it on my laptop I get a not enough memory error message.\n)I've unloaded everything that I possibly could but still, NOT ENOUGH MEMORY.\n)Anyone have any ideas as to why this might be happening. ", "We are interested in purchasing a grayscale printer that offers a good\nresoltuion for grayscale medical images. Can anybody give me some\nrecommendations on these products in the market, in particular, those\nunder $5000?", "\nThis algorithm works well for me:\n\nAlgorithm to attempt to find outward-facing normals:\n---------------------------------------------------\nFirst, mark all faces as UNKNOWN.\n\nThen create an edge dictionary that allows you to find all of the\nfaces sharing a given edge (where an edge is two integers representing\nthe two shared vertices).\n\nPick an arbitrary face and mark it COUNTER_CLOCKWISE. Using the edge\ndictionary, orient all surrounding faces based on the orientation of\nthis face. And recurse for all surrounding faces, consistently\norienting the entire surface.\n\nFind the average of the vertices in this surface. Using that point,\ncalculate a volume measurement, taking into account the face's\norientation. If the volume turns out to be positive, assume the faces\nare oriented correctly. If it is negative, reverse their orientations\n(mark them CLOCKWISE).\n\nIf any faces are still UNKNOWN after this, choose another face\nand go through the algorithm again.\n\nAt the end, faces marked CLOCKWISE must have their indices reversed\nbefore facet normals are found.\n\n(Note: if you are running on Silicon Graphics machines and buy the\nIRIS Inventor 3D toolkit developers package you have the source to\nthis algorithm-- see /usr/src/Inventor/tools/ivnorm/. If you're\nnot... sorry, I can't give out the source, and even if I could it\nrelies heavily on Inventor).", "\n\nNo you do not need to reformat your old HD.\n", "I have a program produces a continuous tone by calling XBell\nrepeatedly at an interval equal to the duration of the bell. If it is\nrun more than once on a display, the tones are buffered in the X\nserver and the tone contunues after all occurrences of the program\nhave exited. Is there a convenient way of preventing this, e.g., by\nemptying the X server bell buffer when each program exits?\n- Disclaimer: Please note that the above is a personal view and should not \n be construed as an official comment from the JET project.\n", "\n\n\n\nSure! -------->\n\nOH! Sorry. This is not rec.humor!\n\nTry cica in pub/pc/win3. Get INDEX to see where it is.", "Hi, \n\tCould some please tell me the errors of my ways. \n\tI am trying to update a drawable. This drawable \n\thappens to be a Pixmap on a button. \n\t\n\tThe problem is that after I do the :\nXClearArea(XtDisplay(m_usr[0]),XtWindow(m_usr[0]), 80, 8, 40, 40, True);\n\n\tThis appears to work. I then do\n\nsprintf(tmp_str,\"R=%d\",++fun);\nXDrawString(XtDisplay(m_usr[0]), bmaps[0] ,my_gc, 78, 10, tmp_str, (strlen(tmp_str)) );\n\n\tThe problem is that the new info is drawn but the old info is\n\tstill there. Even if I pass XClearArea a False and see it clear\n\twhen it redraws the new info, the old info is still there.\n\n\nHelp Please!!!\n Thanks\n-- \n------------------------------------------------------------------------ \nRandy Paries rtparies@turq.b8.ingr.com\nx6191 cr041 Intergraph, Huntsville Alabama", "features include:\n\nDetachable Face, 30x4 watt amplifier, Infra-red Remote, 8 times oversampling\n1 bit DAC, supertuner IV (18fm and 6am presets), best station memory\nCD Changer Controller, loud switch, clock\n\nall original packaging, asking $450.00 (or best offer)\n\nThis CD reciever is a very nice radio, great condition, the remote comes in very\nhandy (you wouldn't think it would), TOP of the line CD Reciever\n\nInterested! send email to Brion Sohn at (easu351@orion.oac.uci.edu)\n any resonable offers will be considered", "\nWhich bus???\n\nI think there are several reasons :-\n\n50MHz motherboards are harder to get right\n50MHz need a fast L2 cache - 12-15ns is a good idea\n50MHz needs to be slowed down to make a compliant VESA bus\n66MHz DX2 chips are faster for a lot of things\n\n\nWith a good, fast L2 cache a DX2/66 is going be be faster than a DX50...\n\nWhat do I have?\n\nA DX50 of course!\n\n\nGuy", "I've pursued and researched this question over the last month or so because I have the same requirements you do......and the long and short of it is that the windows mouse drivers don't accept mice at any but com1 and com2 using irq4 or irq3 unless you buy special drivers from someone who has them.....I've talked to Mouse Systems who say their driver doesn't support other than com1 and com2 as above , but who claim to be releasing one that will SOON!??.\n\nThe other alternative seems to be possible, but in one case prohibitively expensive, i.e. 4 port card for $600??????!!, and in the other, the author(s) of PowerBBS for Windows claim to have a 4 port serial card with buffered 16550 UARTS and drivers for windows to match (i.e. com3 irq5) for $120......\n\nThe second paragraph is hearsay, because I haven't checked it out yet.....but intend to as soon as I can free up $120 ", "Hi. I recently switched my old Amiga 500 with a 486DX-50. My computer\nconfiguration is :\n\n486DX-50 Mhz. 8/256 kB EISA (Micronics Motherboard ASIC EISA 50Mhz)\n16MB Ram\nST3283N 248 MB Harddisk, SCSI\nUltraStor24F EISA Cache Controller\n\nWhen I use Norton6.0 Harddisk benchmark, I get a Harddisk data transfer\nabout 980 kb/sec. and sometimes 1MB/sec. Is that good ? I thought\nthat with EISA I could get about 2MB/sec. \nSomewhere in the manual for my harddisk I have read, that some host \nadapters need to perform a low-level format to optimize the harddisk \nperformance in that system, do I need that ?\nA guy I know, gets a HD transfer about 1.2MB/sec, and he has an ST3283A and\na ISA 486DX-50, how can a ISA with the same system be faster ?\n\nIs there anything that I can do to get a speedier harddisk ?\n\n\n Thanks.\n\nphantom@diku.dk (e-mail is preffered)\n\n", "\n\nOfficially, no. From experience (yours now included!), yes. Quantums seem to\nbe the most problem-free brand on the Mac.\n\n\nIt should not matter for the hard drive or the Mac. Well, as long as it\ndoesn't fall over. ;)\n\n\nDoug", "\n\n\nI was wondering this myself.\n\n\n\n\n\nUnfortunately it does. I don't agree with the logic of NT at an X windows\nconference. Perhaps some good will come of it, but the two are so dissimilar\nand the NT marketing stuff is so large in the Xhibition adds that I was \ncoming to a similar conclusion as Jesse...\n", "From article , by cfw@world.std.com (Christopher F Wroten):\nGood question.\nAnswer: The EISA bus does move 32 bits rather than ISA's 8/(16?)\n But it still moves it at about the speed as the ISA bus.\n I think that's either 8 or 10 mhz.\n The local bus designs also move 32 bits like the EISA, but\n they move the data at the cpu speed, up to 40 mhz.\n So, on a 33mhz cpu, the local bus is moving 32bit data at\n 33 mhz, and the EISA is moving 32bit data at 8 or 10 mhz.\n So the local bus should be 3 to 4 times faster than EISA on\n a 33 mhz cpu. EISA should be about two (maybe 3) times as\n fast as ISA.\n\nThat's a very good question. The EISA bus does have more advantages\nover the ISA bus than just it's width. For example: more/better \ninterrupts and bus mastering. But these other factors do not impact\n a video card very much. They have more impact on file servers with \nmultiple hard drives, full-throttle network cards, cd-roms, etc.", "What is the maximum rate of the 6882 FPU that Apple sells directly (Apple\nPart No. M6775 LL/A)? The Apple literature labels the FPU for Classics and\nLC III's so I assume it will do at least 25MHz. My question is can I put\nit in a Performa 600 (68030 @ 32MHz)? The Apple price is cheap at $78\ncompared to ~$135 from mail order houses. Any one know the answer to this\none?\n", "Hi Everyone,\n\nI would like to get an example program(source code) to get started with a simple\neditor (similar to windows dialog editor, but lot simplified) . Can someone\npoint me to a source such as a programming windows book, or example program\ncomes with Windows SDK (from Microsoft or Borland). I would greatly appreciate\nit.\n\nAll I want to do is to be able to place a edit control or combobox or a listbox\non a window and be able to drag and resize.\n\nIf anyone has written similar program and don't mind sharing code or ideas, \nI would appreciate it very much.\n\nThnx in advance, Manu Das", "Give the new Viewsonic 17 a good look. I have seen it side by side with\nan old Viewsonic 7, a MAG 17, a Nanao 17\" (not the Trinitron one), and\na Sony OEM 17\" (which does have a Trinitron tube). The new Viewsonic\nbeat all of them easily in terms of picture quality, and I think it is\nfar superior to the 16\" Sun that I am staring at now. The place asks\n$1178 for it; I would have bought it if I had not just bought a 15\"\nNanao F340iw a week earlier :(", "My monitor display has a bad case of the wigglies. I have a good ground. I\nlive in an old house and I have replaced much of the wiring. I have two\nEMI filters on the computer, the monitor plugs into the computer. When\nfluorescent lights are on upstairs, the display jiggles, when motors run\nin the house, the display jiggles, when incandescent lights are on in the\nkitchen the display jiggles. I could bring a separate line from the\nbreaker box, and use it only for the computer, would this do it? EMI\ndoesn't only travel the 110 volt line though. Should I shield the back of\nthe monitor? Ground a grid or plate? \nYour expertise is appreciated. Thanks very much! Ed Byrnes", "One thing to consider is time division multiplexing the EMG\nchannels to reduce the number of RF carriers you have to generate.\nIf you multiplexed the EMG inputs at 10KHz, that would probably be\nsufficient for most physiology studies (you'd have ~ 330 Hz per\nchannel sampling rate.) That level of analog multiplexing should\nbe rather easy to accomplish.\n\nCombining a lot of RF carriers is pretty tricky to do without\ngenerating intermodulation. A system to be carried by a runner is\nin a fairly harsh environment and would probably be difficult to\nkeep balanced.\n\nA commercial hand-held transciever could probably be employed with\na little modification to accomodate widening the bandwidth.\nObviously, this has to be done in accordance with whatever laws\ngovern the use of transeivers in your location.\n\n", "Dear Xperts,\n\nI'm developing an application that uses a Motif slider to select\nan image file out of a directory. Now I would like to display the\nname of the file corresponding to the value of the dragged scale\nbutton (i.e. with the MB1 pressed). As XmNshowValue only displays\nthe current value of the scale button and not the actual corresponding\nimage file name, I thought of using an XtAddEventHandler to do\nthe mapping between the scale value and the file name:\n\nXtAddEventHandler(scaleImage,Button1MotionMask, FALSE, SliderMoved, NULL);\n\n\nand in the eventhandler do a:\n\n while (XCheckTypedWindowEvent (display, event->window, MotionNotify, &Return))\n ;\n XmScaleGetValue(scaleImage,&value);\n /*map value to file entry in directory and finally obtain file name to open*/\n\n\nHowever, when I move the pointer in the scale widget I get callbacks, with of co\n urse\na null effect as my MB1 is not pressed to move the scale button. So what is goin\n g wrong?\nOr is the a wrong approach to this problem?\nAny hints are highly appreciated.", "I am looking for a text/reference that will include pinouts, \ndescription, and functionality for just about any IC made.\nDoes such a text exist? Are there docs on the Internet that\nreference IC's? It would be a great idea if each major\nIC manufacturer made available to the public an anonymous\nFTP site with all it's data books in the form of text files.\n(ala RFC style). This would save time and money for the\nIC manufacturer since a text file costs nothing to send\naround the world via internet and since most users of\nIC's\nare found in the internet anyway. \n\nAre there any books available for purchase that reference\n(as many as possible)? Or am I going to be stuck obtaining\na zillion databooks from the manufacturers (those little\nphonebook-type books that are obsoleted every couple years)", "\nSee the article \"An Efficient Ray-Polygon Intersection,\" p. 390 in\nGraphics Gems (ISBN 0-12-286165-5). The second step, intersecting the\npolygon, does what you want. There is sample code in the book.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tspl", "\n\nYes. Here's what you should do.\n\nKeep the vertices in an array, and have the polygons (triangles are okay,\nbut n-sided polygons are slightly more efficient) store the indices into\nthe array of the vertices that comprise them. You set a flag for each\nvertex when you transform it, so you don't have to transform any vertex\nmore than once; you also do backface elimination before processing the\npolygon, so that vertices that belong only to bacfacing polys don't have\nto be transformed at all.\n\nWhenever you transform a vertex, check if it's on the far side of the hither\nplane; if it is, you can project it right away and store the result.\n\nThen do your Z clip; any vertices that get produced will have to have their\nprojection done at that stage.\n", "The subject says it all. I bought Adobe Type Manager and find it completely\nuseless. I ftped some atm fonts and couldn't install them. What's the use?\nAre you supposed to be able to convert ATM fonts to Truetype?\n\nIf there's anyone out there who has this program and actually finds it \nuseful, enlighten me!", "Hi, this is my first msg to the Net (actually the 3rd copy of it, dam*ed VI!!).\n\n Look for the new VPIC6.0, it comes with updated VESA 1.2 drivers for almost every known card. The VESA level is 1.2, and my Tseng4000 24-bit has a nice affair with the driver. \n\n Hope it is useful!!\n", " The IRQ and interface-select jumpers are pretty straightforward, but I\n don't grok the settings of W10-W18 (also labelled A15 through A18).\n Could somebody tell me which settings of these four jumpers correspond\n to what I/O addresses?\n \nThe U-B PCNIC (also OEMed by IBM for a while) is the only Ethernet card I\nknow of that doesn't use I/O addresses. It only has interrupts and shared\nmemory. The jumpers you see control bits 15-18 in the base address of the\nshared memory. I can't recall which is 1 and which 0, but that's easy\nto determine with DEBUG.", "Sorry if this has been beaten to death on this forum.\n\nI am looking seriously at buying a 486 DX / 33 from Gateway.\nI will probably buy it without a monitor, as I've heard negative\nstuff about Gateway monitors.\n\nI've also heard its tough to get through to technical\nsupport.\n\nI'm seeking opinions on whether or not its wise to go ahead\nbased on criteria such as price, warranty service, general\nruggedness of the system, reliability of the machine and of\nGateway too, and so on.\n\nPlease advise!!\n\nThanks in advance!\n\nVasudev Murthy", "Does anybody out there have or know how to calculate the RGB values \nrequired to set the 256 color VGA palette so that the colors from \n0..255 will give 256 colors of the rainbow ie red, orange, \nyellow, etc.\n\nAny help would be appreciated. Please email to eeerik@cc.newcastle.edu.au", "A friend is heavily into MIDI and is using a Quadra 900 (maybe 950) with \nall but one NuBus slot populated with arcane music hardware and a video\ncard. He reports 8 bit video is too slow for good real-time display of\nwhat he needs to see. He also reports that the built-in video is even\nworse. He's not a Mac guru, and I haven't seen the system, so this is\nabout all I know.\n\nI suspect that his NuBus is heavily loaded, and think improvements might\ncome from a switch to an accelerated PDS slot video card. Does this\nsound right? Who makes a PDS accelerated video card for the Quadra thats\nworth looking at? Any other suggestions? Thanks in advance!", "Excerpts from netnews.comp.windows.x: 15-May-93 Re: COLORS and X windows\n(A.. John Cwikla@morrison.wri (4620) \n\n\nWhat I'd like to see is this scenario: \n\nEach widget, view, whatever, describes it's colors via a palette. \nPalettes can be shared and they only contain descriptive information. \nThey are not directly tied to the object that uses them. Palettes are\nheld in the server. A palette can accomadate, up to, the number of\nhardware color cells of color descriptors. \n\nWhen the input focus is in a particular widget, that widget has access\nto all of the colors that are described in its associated palette. ALL\nOTHER WIDGETS, TRANSIENTLY, GET THE CLOSEST APPROXIMATION THAT CAN BE\nGENERATED BY A UNION OF THE COLORS FROM THE CURRENT PALETTE AND ANY FREE\nCOLORS THAT ARE LEFT OVER. \n\nA widget specifies a color for imaging by providing an index (pixel)\ninto its associated palette. ", "Hi, I have a few questions about laying out a PCB. I am using easytrax for dos\nwhich is a great program. But what my question is When laying out traces what\nthickness should they be? I am mainly designing low voltage low current boards\nfor micro controller apps. What should pad sizes be for resistors? I will be\nturning to a commercial PCB maker to produce 1's of these boards and I was\nwondering what is the minimum distance traces should be from each other. Well\nany info would be great. Thanks.\n Anton\n", "\nIn the U\bIBM PC world, how much of a \"standard\" has VESA become for\nSVGA graphics? I know there are lots of graphics-board companies out \nthere, as well as several graphics chips manufacturers- are they adhering to\nthe VESA standard, and what effect is/will the VESA Local Bus have on all\nof this?\nAnyone?\n", "I am looking for one of those color LCD screens you\nplace on an overhead projector and control the presentation\nwith a Mac.\n\nCan you recommend me a particular brand?\nWhat price are we talking about?\n\nThanks, ", "I sent off for my copy today... Snail Mail. Hope to get it back in\nabout ten days. (Impulse said \"a week\".)\n\nI hope it's as good as they claim...\n\nJim Nobles", "\nI tried to install a foreign language Windows application\nthat required a file named WINNLS.DLL. I checked all of my\nWIndows 3.1 installation disks for this file, but could not\nfind it. Does anybody have any idea what this file is for and\nwhere one could get it from?\n\n", "The latest driver release is 59 and can be found at ftp.cica.indiana.edu\nin the pub/pc/win3/... directory structure as pro59.zip. I checked with ATI's\nBBS last nite and there were no releases past 59.\n\nWe have the ATI Local Bus card and I noticed that I get garbage around the\nedges of a window when I move it. Has anybody else noticed this also?\n\nTom.\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nThomas B. Fisk +----------------------------+ Internet: fisk@mayo.edu\nMayo Clinic | If you don't know where | Voice: (507) 255-4341\n200 First Street SW | you're going you'll never | FAX: (507) 255-5484\nMail Stop 2D-337 STM | get there. |\nRochester, MN 55905 +----------------------------+", "I seem to be having some trouble with this...\n\n I can get the mac to go to sleep, but I can't make seem to \nmake it wake up with SetWUTime(). I am aware of the error in\nthe header files and IM VI. I am setting the WU time to be\nabout two minutes, then putting the mac to sleep, but it doesn't\nwakeup at the appointed time....\n\n Does it require a call to SystemTask in order to make sure that\neverything is setup?\n", "Can anyone tell me where to find a standard VESA display driver that will \nsupport the on-the-motherboard XGA video of a 486 50Mz DX2 IBM Model 95\n(8595-0LF)? I need to use 640 x 480 and higher resolutions under both \nWindows 3.1 and MS-DOS. Minimum colors 256 at highest resolution, with 64K \ncolors needed at 640 x 480.", "Hello everybody out there !\n\nI'm trying to compile X11R5pl23 and Motif 1.2.1 on a HP running\nHP-UX 8.05. But it' seems to be not very succesful, because \nI have only hp.cf config-files for HP-UX 7.0. \n\nI tried standard cc and X was compiled with a lot of warnings.\nThe motif applications are compiled quite well, but they won't run.\nI receive the XKeysymDB error which is reported in FAQ, but\nI cannot fix it. The XKeysymDB-file is at the right location and it\nworks fine under SunOS.\nProbably I have started the compilation Prozess only with a wrong\nconfig-file.\n\nPlease help me !\n \nThanx in advance \n Markus\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------\n Markus Koch Universitaet-GH Paderborn \n Email : raistlin@uni-paderborn.de Rechnerbetreuung\n Phone : +49 5251 60 3322 Warburger Str. 100\n +49 5251 60 3318 W4790 Paderborn, Germany\n----------------------------------------------------------------- \n--\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------\n Markus Koch Universitaet-GH Paderborn \n Email : raistlin@uni-paderborn.de Warburger Str. 100\n Phone : +49 5251 60 3322 W4790 Paderborn, Germany", "I would like to hook up some cameras that were recently donated to our\nlocal community cable TV station which have sync inputs in the form\nof horizontal and vertical drive. Our station sync is a black burst\nwhich works fine with other boxes with \"genlock\" style inputs. Can\nanyone point me at a design, article, or whatever showing how to produce\nthe horizontal & vertical drive signals? Thanks in advance.\nJack Powers\n\n", "Another company, Congruent Corporation of New York City, has also ported Xlib\nXt and Motif 1.1 over to MS Windows NT, which provides full client development\nfor X applications in an NT environment.\n\nIf you are porting InterViews over to MS Windows, I thought InterViews was\na C++ toolkit with C++ classes. If that is so, how can it be built on Xlib,\nunless the classes are calling Xlib functions?\n\nSteve\n", "I have the following problem on X11R5 servers.\n\nWhen a window of my is obscured by a pop up window which has\nthe Save Under attribute set, the subwindows of my window are not restored.\n\nNormally, the subwindows are redrawn when the parent window gets an expose\nevent, but because the save under attribute is used for the pop up window\nthat obscured my window, no expose event is sent.\n\nWhen ExposureMask is set for the child windows, those windows are correctly\nupdated when the popup window disappears, however then the application\ngets too many expose events and you see extra redraws.\n\nEverything works fine with X11R4.\n\nIs this something that is changed between X11R4 and X11R5 (obvious)?\nIs it something I do wrong?\nIs there something that the popup window should do (which is also mine)?\nIs this a bug in X11 release 5?\n\nGreetings,\n-- ", "I asked for opinions yesterday on Gateway machines. All\nthe e-mail I received indicated that they were solid,\nreliable machines and technical support was very good.\n\nWell, Gateway faxed me a price sheet just now. It seems\nto be on the higher side, but then again, maybe not.\nDell's price for a similar price is a whole lot more.\nIs this a decent deal? Please advise via email! \n\n\t\t $DX-33V\n 80486DX 33 MHz\n Desktop case\n 64K SRAM cache (20 ns)\n 8MB DRAM(70 ns SIMMS) expandable to 64MB\n 1.2 MB and 1.44 Epson diskette drives\n 250 MB Western Digital IDE (13 ms) 17Mb DTR\n Local Bus IDE interface\n ATI Ultra Pro VL bus with 1MB VRAM and 24 bit drivers\n 15\" CrystalScan 1572FS color monitor\n Phoenix BIOS\n clock/calendar\n 8 16 bit ISA slots, 2 with 32 bit VESA local bus slots\n 1 parallel and 2 serial ports\n Intel OverDrive ready; upgradeable to Pentium technology\n 124 key AnyKey programmable keyboard\n DOS 6.0/Windows 3.1/Microsoft Mouse\n Diagsoft QA plus\n\n One of Excel, MS Word, Paradox, Project etc.\n\n All for $2445\n S & H 95\n\n An NEC 3FGx minitor upgrade would cost $250 more.\n\n\n Please advise! \n\n\n Thanks!\n\n Vasudev", "Hi! I am in immediate need for details of various graphics compression\ntechniques. So if you know where I could obtain descriptions of algo-\nrithms or public-domain source codes for such formats as JPEG, GIF, and\nfractals, I would be immensely grateful if you could share the info with\nme. This is for a project I am contemplating of doing.\n\nThanks in advance. Please reply via e-mail if possible.", "\n\t.DXF can not be changed over to .IFF format what it can be changed\nto is an object format used by one of the 3D programs on the Amiga. The\nonly tools around are comercial for that conversion.\n\n", "hi netters,\n\n\tI'm doing a project which is about image analysis. Firstly, I\nhave to find out any restrictions or limitations on the colour display\non various kind of workstations, they are DECstation, HP, Amiga, Apollo.\n\n\tSecondly, I read from some graphic texts that image is displayed\nin 24 bites(please point out to me if I got it wrong). But, the images\nwhich I will deal with are displayed in 16 bites by the software they\nare using currently. So, will there be any problems to display them\nunder X-windows in the future? Because we are thinking to implement the\nGUI by X-windows for our project\n\n\n\tIs there any person here can help me to solve the problem or\nquery above? Or, give me some advice or suggestion where I can find\nthem out. \n\n\tPlease send me an e-mail if there are any. Thanks in advance.\n\n\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\tYours\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\tChristine Chan\n", "Couldn't replacement become expensive?\n\n-David", "\nIt came from a reseller survey.\n \n\nI don't recall any FUD here. Maybe an example?\n \n\nFor the most part, this newsgroup is \"attack\" oriented. Microsoft has been\nattacked on anything ranging from the quality of our products, the\nintelligence of our people, the integrity of our business, etc. ANYONE\nwould get defensive when being baselessly attacked. We are human beings as\nwell. You should expect a response when a claim that an employee might\nfeel is unwarranted is leveled.", "\n\n\nConsidering the above, and some postings about Diamond's bad attitute\ntowars customers, I ordered and ActixGE+ VLB 2M card. It will arive\nthese days.\n\n--\nPenio Penev x7423 (212)327-7423 (w) Internet: penev@venezia.rockefeller.edu", "Sounds like the picture tube lost vacuum. This would cause the filament\nto ignite and could actually turn the tube from a vacuum to a pressure\nvessel, followed by an explosion when the neck assembly (mostly likely\ncracked to begin with) blows off. During the whole sequence of events,\nthe other circuits may continue functioning, which accounts for not\nlosing sound.\n", "\n export.lcs.mit.edu:/pub/sunkbd..930314.tar.Z\n\n\t/MaF\n", "Iv'e got a problem printing with a StyleWriterII. I am printing from a IIvx\nwith 20 megs ram. I am trying to print a Quark file that has 2 fonts a couple\nof boxes and 3 gradient fills. \n\nTwo things happen: I get a \" Disk is full\" error, that I can't find documented,\nI also have parts of letters that are over one of the gradient fills get cut\noff. This only happens to the text over the fill. Text adjecent in a different\nbox is uneffected.\n\nAny ideas?", "\nWow, what did you use it for? Single-tasked word processing?\nI have 8 files loaded right now and a 29-MB virtual machine (12MB of\nRAM). My friend down the street gripes that he can't even format a\nfloppy in the background. Many unix people love OS/2 because they are\nused to multi-tasking systems. \n\n\n\nToo bad they hold a gun to the mouse piper while they\nthrow mice at their \"new\" trap, trying to get it to work. :)\n\n ---------------------------------------------", "WARNING WARNING MAY CAUSE UNPLEASANTNESS!\n\n\nIt's a \"make before break\" type of switch. If not required, it ought to be\nfor high-low beams. \n\nThere might be a wee problem with this. If you use both filaments at the\nsame time, the bulb is tossing out a great deal more heat than normal.\nPossibly enough to shorten it's life span. My Honda CRX cage [a cage that\nreally wanted to be a bike] had wimpy stock lights. So we used to run\naround with both beams on. Made a mucho big difference - until both low\nbeam filaments died nearly simultaneously! This was two weeks after\nfinding out how nice it was to use both beams. I replaced the lights with\nquartz-halogen lights and that ended the problem.", "Could someone please post a list of good three-D modelers that will\nrun on SPARC stations; preferably cheap. Thanks", "Hi Everybody,\n\n I am interested in the following topics.\n\n1)BIOS programming on 286 and 386.\n2)Memory management in 286 and 386.\n3)Developing Visual Basic Custom Controls.\n\n I would like to have your valuable opinion on the books\nthat are best in the above topics. Please send a mail to\nrmehta@paul.rutgers.edu . I will post a summary of the \nsuggestions.\n\n 2**32-1 thanks in advance.", "Somebody help me cure my poor computer before I go insane!\n\nI have a problem with my 486 when running windows that appears\nto be memory-related. It's actually not limited to windows, but\nthat's where it causes most of my problems. Ths machine's 486DX33,\n8Meg RAM, 256Kcache, TRIDENT TVGA card, PAS-16 soundcard.\n\n1) Windows runs REALLY, REALLY slow most of the time. Slower than\non my old 386SX16. Graphics draws/fills are slow, boots are slow,\napplications are sluggish, dialog boxes take up to 15 seconds to appear.\n(Note: some of my other non-windows applications do funny things that\nappear to be related. Several run slow, my .mod player crashes the\nsystem etc..)\n\n2) Running Borland C++ 3.0 before running windows (or any of the other\nprograms) COMPLETELY fixes the problem. Windows will run as fast as\nI've ever seen it run, easily 10 times faster for graphics than\nwhen I don't run BC beforehand.\n\n3) I don't have a memory manager installed in config.sys. Installing\nemm386.exe does not fix the problem- it makes it worse. After emm386 is\ninstalled, running BC will not fix the problem anymore.", " ...stuff deleted\n\n\nAccording to the April issue of PC Magazine (pg. 139), and I quote,\n\n\"Eventually, Windows NT is likely to be ported to every successful RISC\narchitecture. PowerPC and HP's PA-RISC are the two most likely candidates,\nwith SPARC somewhat less likely because of Sun's relatively strong UNIX\nsoftware base.\"", "(1) Uniden 40 Channel CB Transceiver, Model Pro 710e. \n \n This is a home base unit, with connectors for external speaker and \n PA speaker. 3.5\"x3\" internal speaker, chanel 9/10 button, NB/ANL/PA \n selector buttons, Volume, Squelch, RF Gain, Tone and Mic Gain controls,\n Comes with Mic. Side mount for mic. measures 14\"x8\"x3\". Plugs into \n 110v. Black\n \n Like new. (actually brand new) Asking $105, shipping included\n \n \n(2) Midland International Model 77-101C, 40 chanel, car unit\n \n This one is well used. black w/silver front. comes with mic, power \n cord for 12v cigarette lighter socket, gutter mount antena is also\n included (easy to install and remove). \n Asking $45, shipping included\n \n \n Or both for $130, including shipping. The Uniden alone is about \n $150 in Kmart. These two will work nicely together, have one in \n the garage and one in your truck. \n ", "\nThats the file...", "\nith\nork?\n\n\n\n \nSure thing - You'll have to get an FDHD upgrade kit from Apple, which\nincludes a HD floppy drive, 2 different chips (the SWIM chip was mentioned\nin another post) and a different floppy drive cable. Get the Apple kit\nthrough your dealer.", "I was wondering if it's possible to change the window icons OLWM\nuses for things like xterm. Most of the defaults are pretty lame.\n\nAny answer (or where I can find one) would be most appreciated.\n\nThanks", "\nMacintosh II cx with 40 MB HD, 8 MB RAM and 19\" monochrome\nmonitor (Ikegami) is for sale.\nAsking $3,000, no reasonable (best) offer will be rejected.\nContact Konrad at (416) 365-0564m Mon-Frii 9-5.\n", "\nNope. I'm pretty sure that this person knows how to take the ball out.\nI think that what they want to do is take the mouse apart. The old mouse\nhad four screws on the bottom that you could unscrew to do this,\nwhile there's no obvious way to take the new one apart.\n", "Hi,\n\nCould some kind soul please e-mail me a copy of the pinout for the serial\nconnector on an ImageWriter II printer? We have one that we'd like to hook\nup to a PC, and it seems that nobody sells the proper cables anymore. No\nproblem -- I can make one, but I need to know the pinout first.\n\nThanks in advance.", "Videonics Title maker System\n============================\nabout 2 monthes old, used only once.\nincludes:\n\n1) character generator model # TM-1\n\trez: 720x480\n \t8000 available chars.\n\t12 fonts\n\tstereo sound\n\tover a million different colors available.\n\t20 special effects\n\tfull keyboard design\n\tmail me for more details.\n\t\n2) Thums Up Video Editor model # TU-1\n\tmarks differnent sections of tape as \n\t\t\"thumbs up\" or \"thumbs down\"\n\t\tso you can skip the bad parts on tape.\n\tbuilt-in video enhancer for copying tapes or viewing them.\n\tautomatic fader (switchable)\n\tuse in combination w/ the above unit\n\nboth units in EXCELLENT condition, comes with all docs, unregistered\nwarranty cards.\n\nJ&R music world sells these for $399 and $229, respectively.\n i am asking $500 for both units.\n\nemail me at pchang@ic.sunysb.edu if you are interested.", "I have a Seagate hard drive that I need some info specific information\non. Anyone have the ph# for Seagate Technology, Inc?\n\n(Or if they have a bbs setup that has all the drive info on it, like\nMaxtor does, I'll take that!)\n\nThanks!\n\n", "\n\nI recently bought a Micron 486DX/33 VLB computer and the the local bus\nide card was getting around 1k/s transfer rates (says norton). I caled\nmicron because this seemed pathetically slow and they said that norton\n6.xx doesn't recognize local bus and won't give accurate results. I was\ntold I would need norton 7.0 in order to get a true account of my ide\ntransfer speed.\n\nI didn't really like this answer in part because the drive doesn't seem\nas though it's cranking along at much more than that, but I also don't\nknow if I could tell the difference.\n\nI tried playing around with settings in the CMOS (bus speed at the like)\nand noticed no significant change in performance.\n\n**B0100000027fed4\nFrank Shea\n", "\n\nPSI makes an internal fax modem for the map portable (1-800-622-1722) but \nasks too much for it (retail $450). I'd buy an external and save about \n$350. \n\nthere is a manufacturer that still makes INTERNAL HD's for the portable, \nthey're listed in some of the catalog \"magazines\" for apple stuff you can \nfind at bookstores. If I see it again I'll post it. But, again, you might \nwant to just add a small lightweight external HD built for the \npowerbooks. You'd be able to use it with a new computer some day. Any \nother mac portable questions, I'll have to cry uncle.\n\nDon't blame me. I voted for XXXXXXX.\n", "Hi Guys,\n\n\tIt has been a long time since I wrote a program using X. I am trying to \n\tget myself re-familiarize with X. I would appreciate your help regarding\n\tthe following problem.\n\n\tI am trying to compile a simple X program on sun running sunOS 4.1.2. \n\tusing\n\tcc -o ex ex.c -lXaw -lXmu -lXt -lXext -lX11 -lm\n\tI am getting an error\n\n\tld: Undefined symbol\n\t\t_get_wmShellWidgetClass\n\t\t_get_applicationShellWidgetClass\n\n\n The simple program I tried to compile is given below.\n\n#include \n#include \n#include \n#include \n\nmain(argc,argv)\nint \targc;\nchar\t**argv;\n{\n\tWidget\ttopLevel;\n\tWidget\tframe;\n\n\ttopLevel = XtInitialize(\"ex\",\"Ex\",NULL,0, &argc,**argv);\n\tframe = XtCreateManagedWidget(\"Form\",formWidgetClass,topLevel,NULL,0);\n\tXtRealizeWidget(topLevel);\n\tXtMainLoop();\n}\n\n\n\n\n\tI got the same error when I tried to build \"xpostit\" using the Imakefile\n\tprovided with the software.\n\n\tI have compiled X programs before (not on this machine, but on other \n\tmachines running sunOS 4.0 and X11 R4). I did not get this error message\n\tCan anybody tell me why I am getting these messages.\n\n\tI would appreciate if you can email your responses to me at\n\tazn30@ruts.ccc.amdahl.com.", "Some time back I asked for software recommendations to allow me to\nrun X from my PC at home to my Sparc at the office.\n\nMany thanks for all replies, the majority of people recommended\nPCXremote from NCD. I received it yesterday and installed it on\nmy Sparc and PC with only one hitch. \nThe UNIX install consists of copying 2 files into some local bin directory. \nOn the PC side, I ordered the WINDOWS version which came with a slick windows\ninstallation.\n\n\nThe only problem I had was that my .xinitrc in my home directory\nhad the line\nDISPLAY=`hostname`:0.0; export DISPLAY\n\ns.t the clients I kicked off connected to my Xserver on the Sparc console.\nBy removing this line from the .xinitrc everything worked as planned\nand the clients connected to the server at\n\n`hostname`:1.0\n\nSome comments on performance, I was connected to a Sparc 2 thru\na NetBlazer Terminal Server over a 9600 baud line.\nMy PC is a 486-DX2 ATI Ultra, 16 MB\n\nBitmap Stuff Sucked.\nBasic Editing and compilation stuff definitely usable.\nXmail was very usable.\n\nAt times the first time U typed in an Xclient window there was\na very noticable delay, I put this down to brain damaged \"WINDOWS\nshould not be called a SCHEDULER\", besides that this will become\nmy remote work environment for a while.\n\nHas anybody tried the NON Windows version of the product, the sales\nperson said they performed about the same, given the over head of\nWINDOWS I question this?\n\nmany thanks for help to all who responded", "\n\nOther than getting a 32-bit clean ROM, what other features would a IIci\nROM in a IIx provide, if any?\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\nYep! Sounds good to me. suggestion: sci.electronics.art ?\n\nBest regards,", "Article #61175 (61302 is last):\nFrom: qwerty@tunisia.ssc.gov (Kris Schludermann)\nSubject: HELP:IDE Drive installation problems\nDate: Thu Apr 22 12:11:58 1993\n\nI'm having trouble with installing a second IDE drive on a Promise IDE caching\ncontroller. The first drive is a conner 3204 and works fine. The second drive\nis a conner 30174, it is currently unjumpered to be the slave drive. The\nproblem is the slave drive is recognized but is reported back as having no\nfree space. Disabling cache has made no effect. What else should I check for?\n\nkrispy\nEnd of File, Press RETURN to quit\n\nKrispy,\nLets start with what Promise controller that you have. Ther are only\nabout 4 or 6 of them made. The one that I have the DC-99m needs\nnothing done but install it as stated. As to the 2th. hd you do know\nabout running FDISK on it and partisitions and then formatting it\nafter your finished with the fdisk operation right!....Sam", "\nYup, it's not all that difficult to do.\n\n\nThe Panasonic cartridges aren't bad, but they aren't spectacular.\n\n\nDon't mount it on the side. Call up Crown, the company that has the\npatent on the PZM, and ask them for information on construction and\nuse of the things. You may have to determine the correct spacing\nemperically with a noise source and a spectrum analyzer because the\ndesign of the Panasonic cartridges uses a tuned cavity in front of\nthe electret element to increase the high frequency response, and you\nare going to be altering the resistance through the cavity entrance.\n\nCrown has a nice book on the subject, though it's unfortunately rather\nshort on mathematics. There's a JAES article from many years back, too.", "\n\nThis is incorrect. Sun has made no such claim regarding Devguide, and as \nmanager of the Devguide engineering group I can state with authority that\nwork on Devguide is continuing apace. We had quite a strong show of interest\nfrom the Devguide user community at last week's Solaris Developer's Conference.\nDevguide is being advocated not only as a valuable future builder tool, but\nas an important bit of transition technology that will help sustain current\ncustomers and facilitate their migration to the COSE Desktop Environment.\n\nIf you have specific questions about Devguide availability, etc., you can \ncontact Tali Aben, our Devguide Product Marketing person, at (415) 336-3536.", "We have a Quadra 700 with 170MB HD, but need to a lot of sound sampling\nfor auditory research. What would be the best type of removable media for \nstoring these audio clips? \n\nRon\n", "\n\nThe problem is that the pins in the ADB connector \nare close to each other, and if you happen to bend the\ncable a little while inserting it, you short the ADB\nport. If you take it to an Apple Repair Centre, that\nmeans a new motherboard (though a component replace IS\nphysically possible)\n\nSame goes for serial ports (LocalTalk as well)\n\nCheers,\n\n\t\t\t\t\t/ h+\n-- \n -- Jon W{tte, h+@nada.kth.se, Mac Hacker Deluxe --", "FOR SALE\n\nSony 8mm camcorder model PRO V9 - top-of-the-line a few years ago.\n\t- autofocus with macro capability\n\t- 6x zoom\n\t- 5 lux rating\n\t- 360,000-pixel CCD chip, the best made for a 8mm camcorder\n\t- AV input/output jacks (all cables included)\n\t- RF convertor/switcher for TV without AV input\n\t- AC adaptor/charger\n\t- 1.5A battery\n\t- neck trap\n\t- user's manual, original box, packings, etc.\n\t- mint condition\n\nList price for this model was $1600, I paid $1330 mail-order a few years\nago. Will sacrifice for $500 or best offer. Reason for sale: upgrade\nto Hi8 model.", "\nCould you be more specific? I need that file too but couldn't find it \namongst ALL the directories at wuarchive.", "Has anyone written a device driver to use the Ascension bird with XWindows ? \n\n\n __ \n (_ / / o_ o o |_\n __)/(_( __) (_(_ /_)| )_\n", "\n\nThe HC711 is an EPROM version of the HC11. Raw HC11 parts have factory set\nROM images, and as such are useless to the hobbyist. HC811 parts have\nEEPROM, allowing for electrical erasure and reprogramming.\n\nSome Motorola parts (such as the HC705K1) have EPROM, making them user\nprogrammable, but come with options of either windowed or sealed. The\nmore expensive windowed packages allow multiple use, the plastic dip\nvarieties are one-time programmable, since there is no way of exposing\nthe EPROM array to light.\n\nJohnH\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n | _ |_ _ |_| _ _| _| Electronics Department\n |_| (_) | | | | | | (_| (_| (_| \\/ School of MPCE\n ---------------------------------/- Macquarie University\n Sydney, AUSTRALIA 2109\n\n Email: johnh@mpce.mq.edu.au, Ph: +61 2 805 8959, Fax: +61 2 805 8983\n", "This may be a dumb question, but I need to put a hard drive on my father's\nPC/XT, either MFM, RLL, or IDE. I know how to hook it up, but how do I tell\nthe computer the geometry of the drive. On my 386, you set it in the BIOS, but\nI doubt that's how it's done on an XT. I thought it might be software with\nthe controller card, but the IDE card for XT's that I saw didn't come with\nany. Also, how do I low level format it once it's on the computer? (Assuming\na drive which needs formatting)\n\nadvTHANKSance,", "\n\tConsidering that you can get a brand new Sounds Blaster\n(original) for around $80 I think this price is way too high. Then\nagain, things are worth what someone is will to pay for them....\n\n-Jason\n", "\n\n\n Yep... Alchemy works fine on my Tseng400+DAC, but I think I remember\nreading that it only displays in 15-bit or so. Of course, that's still 32K\ncolors which is nothing to sneeze at. Use the --v flag.\n\n\n--\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n Neal Miller | \"Why not go mad?\" | millernw@craft.camp.clarkson.edu\n Clarkson University | - Ford Prefect | dark@craft.camp.clarkson.edu", "I've been away for a couple of weeks and have become out of touch with the \nlatest information on the Diamond Viper Card. Does anyone know if Diamond \nhas come out with any Vesa Driver updates lately? Also, I was wondering \nwhat the latest Windows Driver version is up to now.\n\n\t\t\t\tThanks in advance,\n\t\t\t\t\tDan", "=>There is a free unix, linux, that has cc, ~c++, fortran ( f2c ),\n=>Xwindows and many other features besides, with a large number of utilities\n=>that can be optionally added. And there is also a free 386BSD I believe.\n=>Both these unix's are quite robust. You can check out comp.os.linux\n\ni dunno about linux, but for 386bsd, don't forget networking\n(well tested, at that), NFS, a fast, incredibly stable filesystem,\nand the list goes on... 8-)\n\nfor us 386bsd folk, look in comp.os.386bsd.*.\n\n\n\n\nchris\nmoderator of comp.os.386bsd.announce, anti-politician, and sometime evangelist\n--\nChris G. Demetriou cgd@cs.berkeley.edu", "\nSun's OpenWindows imake is broken. I suggest installing imake-pure, MIT's\nX11R5 imake. You can get it from ftp.germany.eu.net in file\n/pub/X11/misc/imake/imake-pure.tar.Z (117807 Byte).\n\n-- \n Dipl.-Inform. Rainer Klute I R B : immer richtig beraten\n Univ. Dortmund, IRB\n Postfach 500500 |)|/ Tel.: +49 231 755-4663\nD-W4600 Dortmund 50 |\\|\\ Fax : +49 231 755-2386", "\n \n I recently found an excellent source for X-windows programs. I've seen\nquite a few x-windows toolkits up there. The place is: \n\n export.lcs.mit.edu\n\ngo to the contrib directory. Its full of x-windows programs.", "I'm considering the purchase of a 486DX-33 VLB system to run linux.\nThe system has an ASUS-brand motherboard. Anyone have any comments\non ASUS motherboards?\n\nThanks,", "I've got 2 sets of sample cd's for sale\n\nset one (2cd's)-geared towards house/techno/pop and rap\n\nThe 1st cd is all drum loops and drum sounds over 1500 of them\nThe second contains analog synths, basses, bass loops, wavestations, vox\nloops and much much more. \n\nThe second set-\n\nA variety of different sounds from new age to rock etc... kind of a\nsampler cd..(pardon the pun)\n\nBoth have never been used and I can supply a list of categories for the\nsounds if someone is seriously interested.\n\nI'd like 130 for all three as they were $200ish new...\n\nMichael", "Much deleted about assembly in USA vs. other, \nI wish to focus on the subject of warm-running amplifiers:\n\n\nThere is a correclation between warm-running amps and good sound,\nor in your words, \"it DOES have a bearing on....\".\n\nNow, I don't suggest that everyone run out and create combination\nstove/amplifiers that will degrade lifespan,\nbut a cold-running circuit is much more suceptible to temperature\nvariation with varrying current than is a warm-running one. And since\njunction resistance is a function of temperature, this has a detrimental\neffect on linearity. \n\na few facts:\n-bias points vary with temperature\n-junction resist varrie with temp\n-Adcom products do NOT run class-A\n\nIf you still don't beleive this assertion, consider the warm-up requirements\nfor most good test equipment, or better yet, just listen to an amplifier\nwarm-up. On many designs its quite audible, on mine, about 20 minutes for\nthe output stage, many hours for the drivers. Fortunately the drivers\nare not switched.\n\nIn any experiment, or when drawing conclusions from listening,\nbetcareful to seperate the effect of device temperature from bias\n(idle current) level. Both have a positive correlation with low\ndistortion and \"good\" sound quality, and high bias results in\nwarmer operation, all other factors being equal.", "Is it possible to buy a serial I/O card with the 16550 UART's built in\n(rather than having to buy them separately, and socketing them in)?\n\nMy current I/O card uses 8250's (correct number? The braindead ones anyway).\nIt also controls two floppy drives, and two IDE hard drives.\n\nIdeally, I'd like to get a new multi I/O card, that had 2 serial ports with\n16550's and could also control another 2 IDE HD's. It would have to have\nconfigurable addresses for both the serial ports, and the IDE controller, so\nit could co-exist with my existing card.\n\nDoes such a beast exist? Now the hard part - where can I get one in Australia,\npreferably Brisbane?", "\n\nAre the boards at all intelligent? (I.e., run by microcontrollers?) The\neasiest thing would be to have another line that says that one of the\nboards is talking to the PC. When this line was true, the other boards\ncould all hold off and not send their data. This isn't a perfect solution,\nthough, since you have to worry a little about making sure two boards don't\ndecide to talk at the _exact same time_.\n\nOther than that, I think you will need to hook up each board to \"something\"\nthat speaks RS-232. This actually isn't as hard (or as expensive!) as it\nused to be, though. Assuming the boards talk relatively slowly (9600 BPS\nor slower), the PICs can coordinate things between themselves to multiplex\nthe data. (This is really just forbicly adding the suggestion in the first\nparagraph to your system. And it assumes that each board doesn't talk more\nthan 1/8th of the time, of for very long, since a PIC isn't going to be\nable to buffer more than, maybe 20-some bytes!)\n\nYou might want to check into the prices of multi-serial card for your PC,\nthough. I recently bought a Boca Research 2x4 card (2 parallel ports, 4\nRS-232 ports) for a very reasonable $85.", "I'm working on my senior project here at UF (florida). The project requires fractel trees. I'm interested in either psuedo or real code; just about anything will help.\n\nPerhaps some good books on the subject could help too.\n\n\tmail will reach at: quartz@iriquois.eel.ufl.edu", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\tI got mine for about 7 bucks at Radio Shack. The instructions\nDO say to expose it to light for a while, but mine doesn't seem to require \nvery much to make it work.\n\n\tI just wish I could get a big sheet of the stuff, abouit 12\" x 12\"\nfor a reasonable price.....it isn't cheap, from what I've seen.", "It sounds like you got the cam timing off..........\n", "\nIf I rember correctly, Lotus Notes gives u this possiblity, among other things...", "I don't know if this is an obvious question, but can any of the current \nbatch of windows accelerator cards (diamond etc) be used to drive a monitor \nwhich has RGB and horizontal and vertical sync ( 5 BNC jacks altogether) \nconnectors out the back?? I might be able to get ahold of a Raster \nTechnologies 17\" monitor (1510 ??)cheap and I was wondering if it was \npossible to connect it via an adapter (RGB to vga ??) to my Gateway, would \nI need different drivers etc. \n\n\nThanks", "Hi.\nI'd like to substitute the exciting win3.1 opening logo for our own\ncompany logo at boot up time. Is this a matter of replacing the logo\nfile with our own logo? And what format should the company logo be\nin? Thanks.", "I am urgently looking for the following article, can I cannot find it\nanywhere in our local libraries:\n\n John Allen Smith\n \"The Multi-Threaded X Server\"\n The X Resource\n Issue 1, pp. 73-89, Winter 1992\n\nIf anyone can tell me where I can find it, I WILL much appreciate it!!\n\nH.F. Sadie\nDepartement of Computer Science\nUniversity of Stellenbosch\nSouth Africa", "We are looking for a public domain or low price CASE , running on\nAIX/6000 3.2 and/or SOLARIS 1.1 and/or SUN/OS 3.1, for X/Motif and/or\nX/OpenLook.\n\nI'm not a regular follower of these groups, so I would prefer an\nanswer to this e-mail. Thanks in advance, Regards, --Osvaldo\n", "Did it ever accrue to you to just call INTEL'S 800 number and ask?", "I have and use xrecplay for X11R5. Does one exist for X11R4???\n\nI have tried to contact one of the developers, Eric Swildens, at\ness@hal.com but he is no longer there and has no forwarding email\naddress. Archie is no help either.\n\nAny help would be appreciated. Thanks,\n", "\n[ Questions deleted ]\n\n\nDoes any one know what the PAS16 SCSI port is? I counted the pins on the board\ndisplayed in their ad and it only got 40! What happened to the other 50?\n\nDid they junk a whole bunch of grounds or what?\n\n\nGuy", "Since loading Windows, two of my DOS applications have been\nacting strangely. It appears that font changes and page\norientation changes (so far) are not being recognized in\nWordPerfect/DOS and QuattroPro/DOS. Another DOS application\ndoes accept font and page orientation changes, so I don't\nthink the problem is with the printer.\n\nI reloaded QuattroPro, and these changes are still not\naccepted whether launching from Windows or the DOS prompt.\n\nDoes anyone have any suggestions as to where to look or how to\ncorrect this problem? I've ordered QuattroPro for Windows,\nbut need a landscape application printed immediately. Please e-mail.\n\nThanks in advance!", "Diamond engagement ring. 14k gold band. 33point diamond. appraised at\n1900 dollars. Will sell for 600 dollars. Appraisal available upon request.\nsend e-mail to yb025@uafhp.uark.edu\n", "o Denon DCR 5490 (high power pull out cassette deck with CD changer control)\n\n Features:\n\n - 18 W X 4\n - Theft Prevention Chassis (pull out)\n - 24 station-presets (18 FM, 6 AM)\n - Denon Optimum Reception System IV (FM circuitry-Auto high blend and FM\n pulse noise cancellor)\n - Dolby B NR\n - Key off head release\n - Flexible fader-internal front amp to rear amp and/or internal front amp\n to internal rear amp\n - Auto reverse cassette mechanism\n - Up/down manual & seek tuning\n - Music sensor\n - Stereo/Mono (FM), local switches\n - Metal tape switch\n - DIN \"E\" with easy installation lock-in sleeve\n - Night illumination with dash light dimmer lead\n - Preset scan\n - CD changer control\n Random play: all of tracks on a disc\n Automatic/Manual search\n\n Excellent condition with Manual.\n\n Asking $220.00 + shipping\n\no Yamaha YPA-300 power amplifier (car audio)\n Features:\n - SELECTABLE 2-MODE POWER OUTPUT:\n 40W x 2-ch or 90W x 1-ch - all w/ extremely low distortion (0.1% THD)\n - LOW RFI CIRCUIT effectively eliminates radio frequency interference\n which might arise from DC-DC conversion\n - FULL PROTECTION CIRCUITRY protects amplifier from potential damaged\n caused by overload, short circuiting, DC leakage, excessive heat\n or mis-wiring.\n - INPUT LEVEL ADJUSTMENT allows you to complement your system with any\n audio component\n - GOLD-PLATED RCA JACK ensures a durable, optimum contact, even under\n rugged road conditions.\n - REMOTE POWER links the entire system's ON/OFF with the cassette\n receiver's ot tuner's power switch.\n - SCREW TERMINALS allow simple wiring connections\n - POWER FUSE REPLACEMENT is a simple, one-step operation.\n - ALTERNATER NOISE REDUCTION CIRCUITRY is effectively suppressed\n during driving.\n Specifications:\n Continuous Power Output\n (per channel, 4 ohms, 2 channels driven.)\n with 0.1 % THD, 20 Hz ~ 20kHz .................35W/35W\n with 0.1 % THD, 1 kHz .........................40W/40W\n (per channel, 4 ohms, 1 channels driven.)\n with 0.1 % THD, 20 Hz ~ 20kHz ................80W(BTL)\n with 0.1 % THD, 1 kHz ........................90W(BTL)\n Speaker Impedance................................4 to 8 ohms\n Frequency Response (at 1W, 4 ohms)......10 Hz to 100 kHz (+0, -1.5dB)\n Signals-to-Noise Ratio ...............................105 dB\n Total Harmonic Distortion\n - (at 20W + 20W, 1 kHz, 4 ohms, 24 kHz, LPF)......0.005%\n Dimensions (W x H x D).....................200 x 50 x 156 mm\n Weight..........................................5 lbs. 15 oz\n\n List price: $250.00\n\n This is one of the nicest/cleanest amp that I have even owned.\n I am using two of these in my car, this is just an extra one that\n I don't really need. If you are in the bay area, and like to listen\n to it first, let me know.\n\n Asking $150.00 firm + shipping (brand new in box, never been installed)\n\n\no Boston Acoustic 861 seperates (car audio speakers), 6\" woofers\n with seperate tweeters and crossovers.\n Brand new in box, never been installed, $259.00 at Good Guys\n Asking $199.00 firm\n\no 2 8\" MTX free air woofers, new in box, never been installed.\n Paid $49.00 each at Good Guys\n Asking $70.00 firm", "\nTake a look at TeleUSE, a complete UIMS from Alsys (formerly TeleSoft).\nIn the US, you can reach them at (619) 457 2700.\n\nAlsys have an VMS version of TeleUSE v2.0.5 for VMS V5.5 or higher,\nbuilt using DECwindows Motif 1.0 (based on X11R4 and Motif v1.1.1).\n\nBTW, the VMS port from the UNIX version was made at my company, and was\nreleased in November 1992.", " \n > Is there an Xt call to give me my application context?\n > I am fixing up an X/Motif program, and am trying to use XtAppAddTimeOut,\n > whose first argument is the app_context. What call can I use\n > to give me this value?\n \n\tXtAppContext XtWidgetToApplicationContext(Widget)", "\n\nI know you work at sun, but that's really no reason not to like fast \ncomputers. I suspect a conspiracy here. Are you trying to drag Intel through \nthe mud at a con or something? I really wish you guys would make your own \ncomputers faster instead of degrading others'. Why don't you go straight for \nthe top and run a pentium at 0.7 MHz while you're at it?\n\nSeriously though; Why in the bleeding hell do you want a 386/40 to run at \n25MHz?????????????\n\n(Insert smiley where appropriate)\n\nMAIL-mail: gunnarh@sofus.dhhalden.no SNAIL-mail: Gunnar Horrigmo\n gunnarh@fenris.dhhalden.no Oskleiva 17\n N-1772 Norway", "Now available: xvertext 5.0 \n---------------------------\n\nAnother day, another xvertext release...\n\nSummary \n-------\nxvertext provides you with several functions to draw strings at any angle in \nan X window (previous versions were limited to vertical text). \n\nWhat's new since 4.0?\n---------------------\no Existing bitmap fonts can be magnified to give reasonable fonts at large\n sizes.\no Bounding boxes can be obtained.\no The GC's stipple bitmap is honoured.\no Font IDs can be cached when font names are unavailable.\no An Imakefile is present.\no The demos are better (including a ransom note like the \n comp.sources.postscript one)\n\nWhere can I get it? \n-------------------\ncomp.sources.x (soon...)\nexport.lcs.mit.edu : contrib/xvertext.5.0.shar.Z (now)\n", "\n Interesting, as I think computer technology is now\nbecomming widespread enough now that it is no longer a position\nwhich must require a degree. I know of several people I work\nwith that make just as much as I do and they don't even have\na BS degree in comp sci. yet they make 28+ a year. They also\ndidn't have to pay 30 grand to thier local University either. :(\n I think computer programming is being reduced to a trade\npractice, than a truly specialty field. It will be even more\nso in the future.\n If your interested in cutting edge type of stuff and you\nchoose CS as I did, I suggest checking out the emerging field\nof Software Engineering. The difficulties for example of designing\nscaleable design environments for individuals so that a single person\ncan handle 100,000 to 1,000,000 million lines of code all by himself\nin a reasonable manner and then incorporate that into a teamwork enviroment\nis truly a gigantic problem...not going to be solved any time soon\nunfortunately...but hey you could be the person that provides\nthe missing key for some good groundwork!\n\n\nWell, if your like the poor slobs in the world..like me, you are\nin no financial position to continue Graduate work right out\nof a Top 10 comp sci school.\n\nThe trick is, to find some generous INC you work for to PAY for the\nrest of your education...TRUST ME its the best way to go..even\nif you don't get a TOP salary. Which I have always been a poor\nslob throughout school but if you follow this rule: BOOK=SALARY=FOOD&SHELTER\nyou should always have a computer and you won't go hungry.\n\nWhat else could a man want?! \n", "Hello. I hope somebody out here can help me. I am currently working\non a project where I am trying to communicate from an IBM 386 with\nPhoenix BIOS, using C++, to a board that I made with an Intel 8085 CPU\nwith UART chip. The board works fine with the TRANSMIT command and \nTerminal Emulation mode of Kermit, but there seems to be something wrong\nwith the initialization or protocol used when I try C++. I need to\naccess the unit I built using C, because I have a sizable chunk of C\ncode that I will be using to perform calculations and operations that\nwill be very difficult to code in assembly language for the 8085.\n\nI have included the assembly code that I am running and the C++ code\nthat I am trying to use. If anyone can show me something that I\nam doing blatantly incorrectly or that I am missing because of my lack\nof knowledge about RS-232 serial communications, please e-mail me.\nI wrote the assembly language to wait for a character to be received and\nthen to check it against the 0x20 character, if a 0x20 is received, \nthe LEDs will indicate this. Two C++ programs that I have written do\nnothing, but set up COM port 2 and send the 0x20 character. One uses\nthe bioscom() function in bios.h the other uses the software interrupt\nint86() function in dos.h. I have triple checked the baud rate ( 2400 )\nthe parity ( none ) the stop bits ( 1 ) the character length ( 8 bits )\nand the interrupt calls for ( 0x14 ). Currently, I am at a loss as\nto what may be wrong. Any hardware gurus out there want to comment?\n\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\tThanks alot,\n\t\t\t\t\t\tHubert De Jesus\n\t\t\t\t\t\tdejesus@eniac.seas.upenn.edu\n\n\n \t\t\t\tINTEL ASM\n\nCOMMAND EQU 3000H ;Command Register on 8155\nPORTA EQU 3001H ;Port A on 8155\nTIMERLO EQU 3004H ;High 8 bits of 8155 Timer\nTIMERHI EQU 3005H ;Low 8 bits of 8155 Timer\nUARTDATA EQU E000H ;UART Data Register\nUARTCMD EQU E001H ;UART Command Register\n\n ORG 4000H ;SRAM location\n\t MVI A,08H\t\t ;Set Low Timer Bits\n STA TIMERLO\n MVI A,40H\t\t ;Set High Timer Bits\n STA TIMERHI\n MVI A,11111101B ;Start Timer & Enable Port A\n STA COMMAND\n\n MVI A,11H ;Display 11 on 7-segment LEDs\n STA PORTA\n\n MVI A,00H\t\t ;Clear UART Command\n STA UARTCMD\n STA UARTCMD\n STA UARTCMD\n MVI A,01000000B\t\t ;Internally reset UART \n STA UARTCMD\n\t LDA UARTDATA ;Remove extraneous data\n \t MVI A,01001111B ;Init UART for 8 data bits,\n STA UARTCMD ; no parity, 1 stop bit, 64x async\n MVI A,00100111B ;Enable Transmit and Receive\n STA UARTCMD\n\nINIT: LDA UARTCMD\t\t ;Read Status Register\n ANI 02H ;Is RxRDY?\n JZ INIT ;No, loop\n\n LDA UARTDATA ;Read Data Character\n CPI ' ' ;Is Character = 0x20?\n JNZ INIT ;No, loop\n \n MVI A,22H ;Character received, \n STA PORTA ; Display 22 on 7-segment LEDs\n HLT\n END\n\n C++ using BIOSCOM()\n\n#include \n#include \n#include \n\n#define INIT 0\n#define SEND 1\n#define RECEIVE 2\n#define STATUS 3\n\n#define COM2 1\n\nvoid\nmain()\n{\n char abyte;\n\n abyte = 0xa3;\n bioscom( INIT, abyte, COM2 );\n printf( \"Initialized COMM PORT 2\\n\" );\n\n while( !( bioscom( STATUS, 0, COM2 ) & 0x4000 ) )\n ;\n abyte = ' ';\n bioscom( SEND, abyte, COM2 );\n printf( \"Sent start character\\n\" );\n}\n\n\n \t\t\tC++ using INT86()\n\n#include \n#include \n#include \n#include \n\nmain()\n{\n union REGS registers;\n \n registers.h.ah = 0x00;\n registers.h.al = 0xa7; \n registers.x.dx = 0x01;\n int86( 0x14, ®isters, ®isters );\n printf( \"COM2 Initialized\\n\" );", "Anyone who knows this answer off-hand, please answer me by e-mail \nquickly ;). \n\nThere is a pair of jumpers on one side, and a set of 3 or 4 on the\nother end. One is labeled, sync , and one CD, and E0 E1 E2. \n\nWhhich do I need to short, or disconnect to get drive to operate\nin slave mode? Give me a label or \"geographic\nlabel, as they have quite a few jumpers, and I don't wanna try the\ntrial and error method... \n\nI am using IDE. I think this drive is SCSI compatible too. \n\nJimmy", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\nDon't forget seamless Win apps on OS/2. MS couldn't do it (viz WLO)\nbut IBM managed to do it right.", "Sometimes when I boot up windows 3.1, after the windows logo comes up it han\ngs, I am using Dos 6 and doublespace, and a 5 meg temp swap file on an\nuncompressed drive.\nBut when I press the reset button on the computer, windows boots up\nfine... Why is this??? is it dos 6?\n-- ", "I read a mesg. somewhere on GENIE about Intel coming out with a \ngraphics standard called PCI, which would supplant VESA standards. Is\nthis a rumor, or is there some substance to it. If any of y'all have\nheard of this \"standard\" please e-mail me on how I might obtain more info", "PUFF is sold by CalTech, although very inexpensively for the quality.\nSource was also available for the earlier releases for a nominal charge,\nbut I'm not sure if this practise is continued.\n\n \nRegards, Stu Beal, VE3MWM, U009@CSX.CCIW.CA,\nNational Water Research Institute, Burlington, Ontario, Canada.", "\n\n\nI do not know of any \"VGA\" type cards that have BNC outputs but, EXTRON\nsells a VGA to BNC cable set that works good with my 5FG. If you are\ntrying to optimize the display with a good video card try contacting #9,\n@ 1-800-get-nine. I use and like the level 9 card.\n\n\n", "Hi!\n\n\nSorry, it's german, but I hope you understand it.\n\n\nUebertragung der Schaltplan-Daten (*.SCH) in die Board-Daten\n(*.JOB):\n\nPADS-LOGIC:\n In/Out\n Reports\n Net List\n Select PADS-PCB\nNet List Output file name\n -> filename angeben\n\nPADS-PCB:\n In/Out\n Ascii In\nAscii input file name\n -> filename angeben\nErrors aoutput file name\n -> filename angeben, nicht CR\n\nJetzt sind alle Bauteile auf einem Haufen und muessen mit Move\nverteilt werden.\n\nViele Gruesse", "Greetings from green New Zealand...\n\nWe are looking for a Windows 3.1 Font that will allow \"macrons\" (a hypen)\nover vowels -- in both UPPER and lower cases. This is so we can use Maori\ncharacters in Windows applications.\n\nThanks in advance\n-Stuart Inglis", "VHS movie for sale\n\nKevin Costner\tDances withs Wolves\n\nJust open and was used once, $12.00 or best offer, buyer will have\nto pay shipping. ($1.00 for shipping)\n\nLet me know if you are interested, and send your offer to this\ne-mail address. Koutd@hirama.hiram.edu\n\nthanks,", "FIRST ANNUAL PHIGS USER GROUP CONFERENCE\n\n The First Annual PHIGS User Group Conference was held March 21-24\n in Orlando, Florida. The conference was organized by the Rensse-\n laer Design Research Center in co-operation with IEEE and SIG-\n GRAPH. Attendees came from five countries spanning three con-\n tinents. A good cross-section of the PHIGS community was\n represented at this conference with participants including PHIGS\n users, workstation vendors, third-party PHIGS implementors, stan-\n dards committee members, and researchers from industry and\n academia. The opening speaker, Dr. Richard Puk, challenged PHIGS\n users to \"take charge of your PHIGS\" by participating in PHIGS\n standardization activities and communicating their needs to PHIGS\n implementors. The closing speaker, Dr. Andries Van Dam,\n described his vision of the future of graphics standards \"beyond\n PHIGS\".\n\n Technical paper sessions in the conference covered the following\n topics: PHIGS and X, Application Toolkits, Application Issues,\n Texture Mapping, NURBS, PHIGS Extensions, and Object-Oriented\n Libraries and Frameworks. Panel sessions on PHIGS and PEX, PHIGS\n Non-Retained Data, Real-World CAD Applications Using PHIGS, and\n Portability Issues generated enthusiastic discussions and formed\n a good forum for exchange of ideas, needs, and experiences. The\n conference also included a day full of tutorials on topics rang-\n ing from mathematics for 3D graphics to object-oriented tools\n based on PHIGS.\n\n Next year's conference is planned for March, 1994.\n\n PHIGS EVERYWHERE\n\n At the conference, PHIGS vendors described and demonstrated\n PHIGS products that run on all types of computers, from PCs to\n mainframes.\n\n Megatek Corporation demonstrated their PHIGS extensions including\n conditional traversal, composite logical input devices, texturing\n and translucency.\n\n Template Graphics Software launched FIGARO+ PRO, the Photo-\n Realistic Option for PHIGS+. FIGARO+ PRO is designed to add\n advanced rendering to the existing PHIGS+ API, with features like\n ray tracing, materials, anti-aliasing and texture mapping.\n Radiosity support is also planned.\n\n FIGARO+ is an example of how TGS continues to add newly emerging\n graphics features to their products. FIGARO+ supports immediate\n mode extensions to PHIGS and also supports SUN XGL, HP Starbase\n and SGI GL/OpenGL. FIGARO+ for NT will be released this summer.\n\n TGS also demonstrated the latest versions of FIGraph, a powerful\n \"2-call\" charting system based on PHIGS+, and FIGt, an object-\n oriented utility library for PHIGS/PEX developers.\n\n G5G and Gallium Software demonstrated a new version of GPHIGS on\n Silicon Graphics workstations. Scheduled for summer, 1993, Ver-\n sion 3.0 of GPHIGS, the company's PHIGS+ library for worksta-\n tions, will include an advanced PHIGS debugger that allows PHIGS\n developers to display and browse PHIGS structures and other PHIGS\n internal state. G5G also described their Non-Duplicated Data\n Store that stores pointers to application data in the GPHIGS CSS\n for more efficient use of memory. In addition, G5G described\n their application GSE that allows application callback functions\n during GPHIGS traversal. GPHIGS and PHIGURE, G5G's data visual-\n izer and application development toolkit, are currently available\n on all major workstations that support GL, X Windows, PEX, or\n Starbase.\n\n Wise Software presented a slide show of Z-PHIGS for MS-Windows\n and ARENA, a PHIGS based modeller/render. Z-PHIGS implements most\n of the PHIGS+ primitives. In addition Z-PHIGS has built in many\n advanced rendering features like texture mapping, shadow genera-\n tion, area quick updates and ray tracing. A demo disk of Z-PHIGS\n or ARENA is available on request.\n\n ATC exhibited GRAFPAK-PHIGS, their full-featured PHIGS implemen-\n tation based on DEC PHIGS. GRAFPAK-PHIGS is available on most\n workstation platforms with C, FORTRAN and Ada bindings and incor-\n porates PEX support.\n\n Within the booth sponsored by Advanced Technology Center, Digital\n Equipment Corporation demonstrated DEC PHIGS V2.4 running on the\n DEC 3000/400 AXP PXG. ATCs' GRAFPAK-PHIGS is a port of DEC PHIGS.\n DEC PHIGS V2.4 contains most PHIGS and PHIGS PLUS features with\n support for PEX V5.1 protocol. DEC PHIGS also contains most\n GM/EDS PHIGS extensions including post-to-view as well as\n proprietary extensions to support immediate mode rendering and\n the use of PHIGS in an X11 environment.\n\n AXP, DEC, and DEC PHIGS are trademarks of Digital Equipment Cor-\n poration. GRAFPAK-PHIGS and ATC are trademarks of Advanced Tech-\n nology Center. PEX and X11 are trademarks of Massachusetts Insti-\n tute of Technology.\n\n The IBM exhibit featured a GTO accelerator attached to an IBM 340\n workstation running graPHIGS and PEX.\n\n Hewlett Packard and SHOgraphics demonstrated at the conference. A\n Hewlett Packard machine was coupled to display on a SHOgraphics\n PEX terminal. HP showcased their latest PHIGS product enhance-\n ments.\n\n\n PHIGS USER GROUP\n\n The PHIGS Users Group was formed to aid the development of PHIGS\n applications and provide user feedback to PHIGS implementors and\n PHIGS standards bodies. For more information about the PHIGS\n Users Group, send e-mail to:\n\n phigsug@cadrt10.me.vt.edu\n\n or write to:\n\n Sankar Jayaram\n Virginia Polytechnic Institute\n 114 Randolph Hall\n Blacksburg, Va. 24061-0238\n FAX: 703-231-9100\n\n\n VENDOR CONTACTS\n\n Megatek Corporation\n TEL (619) 455-5590\n FAX (619) 453-7603\n\n Template Graphics Software\n TEL (800) 544-4847\n FAX (619) 452-2547\n\n WISE software GmbH\n TEL +49-451-3909-413\n FAX +49-451-3909-499\n\n G5G - North American Sales\n TEL (800) 267-2626\n FAX (613) 592-1278\n\n Advanced Technology Center\n TEL (800) 999-5711\n FAX (714) 583-9213\n\n Digital Equipment Corporation\n TEL (603) 884-5111\n\n International Business Machines Corporation\n TEL (800) 426-3333\n\n Hewlett Packard Company\n TEL (303) 229-3800\n\n COPIES OF THE CONFERENCE PROCEEDINGS\n\n Copies of the conference proceedings may be obtained by contact-\n ing Mary Johnson at:\n\n Johnson, Mary\n Design and Manufacturing Institute\n Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute\n 110 Eighth Street\n Building CII, Room 7015\n Troy, NY 12180-3590\n Tel: (518)276-6754\n Fax: (518)276-2702\n Email: mjohnson@rdrc.rpi.edu\n", "This is for a friend of mine. Please send answers directly to him (E-Mail\nadress see below )!\n\n\nHIGHSPEED ANALOG-DIGITAL PC-BOARD\n\nHello LAdies and Gentleman !\n\nI am looking for a highspeed A/D PC-Board with a sampling rate above 250 MHz an a\nresolution of 8-bit. The sampling rate can be arranged by an interleave mode where\nthe time equivalent sampling yields 2, 4 or 8 times higher sampling rate than\nthe A/D-Converter uses in non interleave mode.\n\nThe board must content an A/D-Converter similar to Analog Devices AD 9028 or \nAD 9038 or if available a faster on.\n\nIf you a PC-Board (16-bit slot, ISA) with this specification or better, please\nsend me an EMail\n\nhansch@cdc2.ikph.uni-hannover.dbp.de\n\nor a Telefax to: ++49 / 511 / 7629353\n\n\nThanks in advance for your help !\n\nSincerely\n\n Matthias Hansch\n IKPH, University of Hannover, Germany\n\n\n\n---\n\nAndreas Heinbokel\n\nheinboke@tnt.uni-hannover.de", "I need to have PCs and SPARCstations run the same application ( namely\nMicroSoft Project ). The original system ran on the PC. Now it needs to\nbe expanded to allow UNIX users to work with the application. The\ncurrent proposal is to use DESQview/X as a display server for the\napplication.\n\nI would like to know your experiences with using DESQview/X to run an\napplication on a PC and displaying on a SPARCstation. I've heard that\nthe network traffic is slow.\n\nReplies only by e-mail please.\n\nThanks, in advance.", "\n\n[...]\n\n\n\nI think your performance will depend upon the X server. \n\nI'm running Linux and XFree86 on a 33Mhz 486DX with 4MB of RAM (8MB swap) and\nit runs just fine. Its a lot better than some of the crappy old Xterminals\nin the labs at school anyway.\n\nYou could probably outfit a 386SX with a minimal Linux/X setup for $900\nand be better off than with an Xterminal. IMHO.\n\n\nScott\n--", "I would like advice on how to configure my 486 to accept:\n- Com1 + Com2 (currently on IRQ 4 and 3)\n- LPT1 (IRQ7)\n- Bus Mouse (IRQ5)\n- Sound Card (no idea what to do - can be set to any)\n- \nusing IRQ2 for Bus MOuse gobbled up too many cycles, and caused\nloss of communications with floppy disks, and a few other \nproblems.\n\nI could, I suppose, switch the 2 com devices externally, and disable\nthe second port on the Super IO card, but I really want to \nhave them both available.\n\nCOuld the sound card use IRQ2 without horsing up the works?\n\nAll replies apppreciated - and I only just subscribed to this\nnewsgroup - I assume there is an FAQ somewhere (rather, I'm\nsure someone will tell me about it....)", "\nCheck the station's master sync generator. You'll probably find that\nit already has horizontal and vertical drive outputs that just aren't\nbeing used. A couple of cables and you're in business.\n\nAnother possibility is to find a genlockable sync generator with HD and VD\noutputs - genlock it to station sync, and then feed HD and VD to the\ncameras.\n\nIf neither of these is possible, then you'll have to build a sync\nseparator. Look at the circuit diagrams of your existing sync generators -\nthey probably all include circuitry that does what you want.", "Have anyone some idea about how to build a cheap, low\nresolution (or high :-) video projector... ", "We have recently obtained a copy of color_xterm (from export.lcs.mit.edu) after\nseeing it mentioned in a previous article. On compilation, it reports the\nfollowing undefined symbols:\n\t_get_wmShellWidgetClass\n\t_get_applicationShellWidgetClass\n\n\tbut still runs. When sending escape sequences to set the colour,\nany colour comes out as black text on a black background. Any Ideas?\n\nHas anyone used this program in colour successfully?\n\nCan anyone point me to any other colour terminal emulators?\n\nWe are running OpenWindows 3 on Sun Sparcs running SunOS 4.1.3.\n\n\t\t\t\tadvaTHANKSnce Ben Kelley.", "FOR SALE\n\nSherwood AM/FM Stereo Reciever\n20 memory presets (I think, may be 18)\n25 watts per channel\n\n$70 or best offer\n\nPlease reply to gt7187c@prism.gatech.edu\n\n", "Well, my 14inch VGA 1024x758-interlacing 2.5 year old no brand monitor just\nbit the bullet. I pressed the power switch and a few seconds later, the power\nlight went out with a POP. Gawd, it's only been two and half years.\n\nHow long would normal monitors last? I think the problem with my monitor is\nthe power switch... but the image was getting pretty dim anyway (I needed to\nhave my contrast all the way to the max...). And the screen did flicker from\ntime to time. Is this normal (hehehe) or do I just have the worst of luck???\n\nQuestion: What do I do now???? Buy a new one? Get it fixed? Save up for a\n*really* good one and get by with a cheap EGA monitor for now? I rather save\nmy money to upgrade my 386SX to 486-66 though...\n\nThanks!", "\nI have always thought that if I wanted to send the Police a tape with\na ransom demand on it, or send CNN a video tape to see if they wanted\nto buy it, I would place a small magnet near the take-up spool so the\ntape would be erased as it was played. Who would think to check?", "\nWhat CPU does this use? I need the info fro my Thesis.", "Could someone tell me what's in a Cornell-Dubilier EMI Filter\nFIL 3363-001?\n\nIt is rated at 13A 115/250VAC 50/60HZ. Is it just MOV's and ferrite?", "\n)>> \"The Catalog of Personal Computing Tools for Engineers and Scien-\n)>> tists\" lists hardware cards and application software packages for \n)>> PC/XT/AT/PS/2 class machines. Focus is on engineering and scien-\n)>> tific applications of PCs, such as data acquisition/control, \n)>> design automation, and data analysis and presentation. \n\n)>> If you would like a free copy, reply with your (U. S. Postal) \n)>> mailing address.\n\nI have a copy of this catalog in front of me as I write this.\nIt does have tons of qool stuff in it. \nMy impression is that they try not to send it out to \"browsers\". It\nappears that if your not a buyer or an engineer they do not want to\nwaste a catalog on you. When you get a catalog there's a \"VIP Code\" you\nhave to give them \"to ensure your continued subscription.\".\nAnyway, if you want to get in touch with them, the company is\n\nPersonal Computing Tools\n550 Division Street\nCampbell, CA 95008\n(408) 378-8400 \n(They also have fax #'s and toll free #'s for ordering and tech support)", "I have a 386/40 motherboard with AMI BIOS.\nI haven't located the little motherboard manual yet,\nand suddenly it's giving me 10 beeps when I turn the power on.\nIt was working fine this morning,\nthen gave all kinds of problems, in Windows and outside it.\nAfter multiple reboots, now it only gives 10 beeps and sits there?", "I have access to a DEC TLZ06 DEC DAT tape backup. What do I need to interface\nmy SE/30 to the tape backup. The tape backup is a SCSI. Will Norton Utilities\nbe sufficient to interface the two?\n", "OK..... thanks to all of you who responded to my post.\nhere's the \"official\" response from orchid..\nOrchid is aware of the problem, the new rev of the board (rev d) SHOULD (not would) take care of the problem. production was scheduled to start\non april 15, I have no confirmation that production did start on this day\njust the word of the tech on the other line.\n\nnow the flame......\nyou would think a company like Orchid who has produced good quality products in the past would be more helpfull and willing to make right on a screwup of theirs. \nvery poor tech support (the first 2 times I called I must have spoke with the\njanitor because they where talking craziness) the last time I talked to a tech named \"paul\" and he seemed to have a pretty good idea what was going on.\nuntil these problems are resovled neither myself nor my department will buy\nor recommend orchid products.\n\nflame off.....\n\nagain thanks to all of you who answered my post.", "\nUnfortunately, you're wrong on both counts. The most common method of\nimplementing a tunable receiver is to have a local oscillator. The\nlocal oscillator's frequency can be radiated out of the receiver via\nthe antenna unless the circuit is designed and constructed with great\ncare.\n\nFor a reference on detecting radios, get the paperback book _Spy Catcher_.\nThe author discovered how to detect radio receivers from their local\noscillator emissions back in the *1950s* while he worked for British\nIntelligence.\n\n -Greg", "I'm no expert at UPS's, but you said something that made it sound like\nyou didn't realize something. On a typical UPS (well, on ours, anyway),\nthere is NO switchover from AC to DC. All the protected equipment is\nALWAYS running from the batteries (via an inverter), with the usual \ncondition of also having them on charge. If the power fails, big deal - \nthe computers never see it (until the batteries start to droop, but \nthere's something like 60 car-sized batteries in that cabinet, so it \ntakes a while).\n\nIf you were gonna run the guts on straight DC instead of an inverter,\nwhy not do it all the time? Then there'd be no switchover to screw\nthings up, and no having to sense the failure fast. Just keep the DC\non charge when the power is on, and it'll be there in zero time when\nyou \"need\" it.", "\nI can definitily say that you can use an RLL as Master and IDE as slave, as\nI have just upgraded my machine with a 200Mb IDE ( And custom Controller\nMdl CI-1010 Extended IDE Controller ) While maintaining my RLL'd Wren as\nmaster Drive. The trick is the controller which supports up to 4 IDE Drives\nwhile coexisting with existing Controllers ( MFM,RLL,ESDI,SCSI ).\n\nSo according to the Documentation it should work with ESDI, and I can assure\nyou it works with RLL.", "Thanks Ron and Peter for some very nice maps.\n\nI have an advice though. You wrote that the maps were reduced to 256\ncolors. As far ad I understand JPEG pictures gets much better (and\nthe compressed files smaller) if you use the original 3 color 24 bit\ndata when converting to JPEG.\n\nThanks again,\n", "\"Chimney Sweep\" number 12/I (5-1/2 to 6-1/2\"), closed edition,\n3 or 4 line (Purchased in West Germany in 1970) (Retail $270)\nSell $120 (S&H extra)\n\nI have a picture of it if you want to see first; in excellent\nshape, no chips or cracks).\n\nGreat idea for Mother's Day. This is a great buy.\n\nInterested? Please E-mail or call (415) 926-2664 wk\nor (408) 248-0411 eves.", "Ensoniq SQ-80 Cross-Wave Synthesizer:\nI have an SQ-80 for sale. The SQ-80 is a powerful performance\noriented synth with a limited on-board sequencer. I bought it because\nit has a very large timbral repertoire; it seems to do meaty analog\nsynth sounds as well as sounds that are considerably more \"digital\".\nBelow are a list of features extracted from the owner's manual:\n o Eight-voice polyphonic poly-timbral synthesizer, capable of\n playing eight different sounds at once, with dynamic stereo\n panning for each voice\n o Voice section employing Cross-Wave synthesis; combine different\n attack and sustain wave segments to create complex, dynamic sounds\n o 75 sampled waves (includes a drumset) serve as the sound source\n o Dynamic voice allocation: each sequencer track/MIDI channel has\n access to all eight voices\n o A full-featured MIDI controller keyboard capable of sending eight\n MIDI program and volume changes at once. Keyboard is velocity\n sensitive, and transmits/receives velocity and polyphonic aftertouch.\n o Powerful matrix modulation scheme allows a very wide range of \n modulation sources and routings.\n o A 3.5\" floppy disk drive which writes/reads ordinary DS/DD disks\n allows fast and reliable storage of up to 600 sequences and up to\n 1728 sound patches on a single floppy disk. Also has a RAM-cart slot\n for patches that is compatible with ESQ-1 RAM-carts.\n o Does sysex dumps to its floppy disk for any sysex capable MIDI device\n o 80 character fluorescent display and user-friendly \"page-driven\"\n programming scheme provides a fairly humane user interface\n o Stereo line-outs, and stereo headphone jack for private listening\n o Sound programs and sequences are upwardly compatible with the ESQ-1\n so that sounds and sequences created for the ESQ-1 can be played on\n the SQ-80.\n\nThis SQ-80 has been the main MIDI controller in my studio for quite a while\nnow. It has performed ably in that role, and has also been a heavily\nused sound source at the same time. The SQ-80 seems to have been designed\nwith this role in mind, and it works very well with my software sequencer\n(WinCake) in its multitimbral mode.\n\nshort samples (there are 75 of them) as sources, then these waves\nare processed with a sophisticated DCF-DCA arrangement. The SQ-80\nis capable of great things because of its 4-pole analog lowpass filter.\nSimply put, it makes fabulous analog synth sounds. But unlike most\ngood analog synths, it has a very thorough MIDI implementation so that it\nworks very well with a MIDI sequencer. What I really like most about this\nthing is that it is capable of making a very wide range of sounds.\nThis SQ-80 is about 5 years old (mfg. date 1/21/88). It does have\nan 8-track sequencer, but like most on-board sequencers, it is a pain\nto use so I have avoided it.\n\nREASON FOR SALE:\nI am selling my SQ-80 because I recently joined forces with another individual\nhere in Boston, and we have more keyboards than space to put them. I\nrecommend it for someone who is getting started in sequencing and needs a\npowerful but economical master keyboard.\n\nPRICING AND TERMS:\nI paid $1300.00 for this synth a few years ago. I am willing to accept\n$650.00 (average r.m.m.s asking price is $733.00). I will include a bunch of \npatches on SQ-80 floppy disks for the buyer of this synth, as well as the \noriginal Ensoniq SQ-80 owner's manual.\n\nPrice: Asking $650.00 (everything)\nShipping: split shipping (UPS Surface COD) anywhere in the lower 48 states\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nCraig Vanderborgh Verbex Voice Systems\ne-mail: craigv@rad.verbex.com 119 Russell Street\nphone: (508) 486-8886 Littleton, MA 01460", "//I'm using BC++'s ObjectWindows (version 3.1) and trying to get some data \n//processed in a window object. However, when the calling program invokes \n//the window object, it gives up the control to the window object, and keeps \n//executing the next statement. I would like the calling program, after \n//invoking the window object, to wait until the window object is closed. \n//Can I do that? My program may look like:\n\nclass MyWindow : public TWindow\n{\n\t...\n};\n\nvoid MyCallingProg(...) // Could the calling program be a C function?\n{\t...\n\tMyWindow *MyWinObj;\n\tMyWinObj = new MyWindow(...);\n\tGetApplication()->MakeWindow(MyWinObj);\n\tMyWinObj->Show(SW_SHOWNORMAL);", "I had a GE Emerson 13\" color TV for about 3 years and one fine day,\nwhile we were watching something (I doubt if the program was the cause),\nwe heard a mild explosion. Our screen went blank but there was sound,\nso we thought, 'oh we have special effects on the program'. But soon\nthe sound stopped and smoke started to appear at the back of the TV.\nThe brilliant EEs we are, we unplugged the TV and called customer service\nonly to be thrown around by please hold, I will transfer u to blah blah..\n Finally we abandoned the idea of trying to fix the TV and got a new one\n(we wanted a bigger one too!).\n After all the story, what I wanted to know is: Is my problem an isolated\nincident or a common one? (I recall reading about Russian TVs exploding, but\nnot here, in the US). Why would the picture tube explode or even smoke?\n I still have the left over TV set, I might dig into it this summer. Any\nidea where I can get parts for these things? (probably will cost more than TV).", "\t daved@world.std.com (Dave T Dorfman) writes...\n]I was enjoying lunch this saturday at foodies in Milford NH with an assortment\n]of other nedod folks when Dean Cookson ( yes he has not left the \n]country, yet) mentioned that the wiring diagram of the VFR750 \n]shows that the light switch is a three position switch. \n\n]high beam\n]low beam\n]Both beams\n\n]Well the actual ergonomics of the switch make it appear to be a\n]2 position switch, but sure enough as Deam expected , when\n]you balance the toggle switch in the center position both the high\n]and low beams go on.\n\n]This provides a very nice light coverage of the road.\n\n]This is true for the St11 and the VFR750 and I would expect for any \n]other late model Honda with the standard two position light switch.\n\n]Thanks to Dean for reading the schematics, try it you'll like it.\n\n\tBe a bit careful doing this; I used to balance the switch on my GS550B\navec Cibie' H4 insert so that both beams were on. I eventually fried the\nmain ignition switch, as it wasn't designed to pass that sort of current.", "\nKaveh,\n\nall of the data included with in the Cyberware_demo is\nnon-proprietary, use it as you like. I just ask that you give us\ncredit if you use it in a research paper/project and send us the\nresults.\n\nthanks,\n\ngeo\nCyberware\n-- \ngeorge dabrowski\nCyberware Labs", "Hi,\n\nwell I have opened up a FTP site for getting the latest software drivers\nfor Genoa graphics cards.\n\nHere is how to access it:\n\nftp 192.109.42.11\nlogin:ftp\npassword:ftp\ncd pub/genoa\nls -l\nbinary\nprompt\nhash\n\n(now if you wanna have the latest drivers for the 7900 board)\n\ncd 7000series\nmget *\n\nquit\n\nThis is the sequence to get the drivers.\n\nIf you have any further question, please email me.", "For Sale...:\n \n **BRAND NEW** Hewlett Packard toner cartridge\n model number HP 92295A.\n \n \n o I am selling this toner because I recently\n bought a Brother HL-10V printer and the\n toner that I am selling. I activated the\n toner, but ended up returning the printer.\n The store, however would not take back the\n toner. This toner has been used to print\n only three pages and is in perfect condition.\n I will protect it for shipment so that no\n toner escapes. It comes with all original\n packaging and manuals. The toner is compatible\n with ANY laser printer that uses the model\n number of the toner I am selling; just look in\n your manual to see if it will work for you.\n I will not go below $60.00. I will pay the\n shipping to anywhere in the continental \n United States.\n \n If you are interested, leave me email or call Kirk\nPeterson at (303) 494-7951 anytime.", "\nUm...\n\n1) Your Professor if just plain wrong. Although blue LEDs are one heck of\na lot less efficient than red ones.\n2) \"Typical visible light LEDs\" don't really exist. LEDs have a fairly\nnarrow region of transmittence. (Since the Fermi energy around either side\nof the band gap falls off exponentially, blah, blah...)\n\n\nYou might want to check the copyright date on that. :-)\n\nBlue LEDs most certainly do exist, I've got a bunch at work. Cree Research\nmakes them (probably along with other companies... Cree is big in\nmaterials science, though; they advertise in the stuff like Physics Today,\netc.). You can buy them from JameCo (I think), DigiKey (definitely), and\nplenty of other distributors.\n\nActually, these days you _can_ get a \"typical visible light\" LED -- it's\ncalled a \"rainbow LED\", and I've forgotten who makes it (they advertise in\nEDN and many of the other trade rags, though). It combines a reg, green,\nand blue LED all on one chip (and has four leads). Nifty device, although\nit's probably fairly expensive.", "Hi,\n\nI am running X11R4 on an IBM RS/6000 (AIX 3.2) and X11R5 on a Sun4 (SunOS 4.1).\n\nSince I run X on both colour and black&white displays, I need different\nvalues for the same resource, so I want to use #ifdef COLOR in my\napplication defaults files. However, cpp is only invoked by xrdb, and\nnot when the resources are loaded on demand.\n\nIs there a proper solution to this?\n\nSo far, the only proper solution I've come to think of, is to create 2\ndifferent files in my ~/app-defaults/, say XTerm and XTerm-color, and\nset my XFILESEARCHPATH to either $HOME/%T/%N or $HOME/%T/%N-color.\nBut that does not always seem to work (e.g. executing a remote shell\ncommand without reading the .cshrc does not set XFILESEARCHPATH).\n\nFurthermore, I thought of using #include \"XTerm\" in XTerm-color.\nHowever, for resources in XTerm that I want to override in XTerm-color,\nthings are different on both machines. On a Sun, the FIRST found resource\nis used (i.e. the one from XTerm, the b&w one), while on an RS/6000, the\nLAST found value is used (i.e. the one from XTerm-color). What can I do\nabout it?\n\nI have one last question: for the specification of XFILESEARCHPATH, I\ncan use %T, %N, %C and %S. %T stands for app-defaults, %N for the\nresource class, but what do %C and %S stand for?\n\nThanks in advance for replying,\nMarcel.", "Hello all,\n\nYou, the Net, are my last resort, or I'll just change my job :-)\nThis might be a FAQ (e.g. mixing controllers) but haven't seen any.\n\nSys: 486/33, AMI BIOS, and your run-of-the mill multi-I/O card with\nserials/paral/floppies and \n\t- IDE controller \"clone\" Gw2760-EX\n\t\tthere are no jumpers affecting the HD or ctrller :-( \n\t- Quantum ProDrive LPS (3\" 105M type 47: 755cyl, 16hds, 17spt).\n\nPb: I want to bring in this (2nd hand, neat price):\n\t- Maxtor XT-B380E (~330M, <15ms, BIOS type 1, ctrller manages\n\t\tthe real geom: 1630cyl, 8hds, 52spt)\n\t- Western Digital WD1007V-SE1 ESDI ctrller: no floppies.\n\t\t(jumpers set IRQ 14/15, hw port addr 1F0/170,\n\t\tand BIOS addr CC00/C800, and other floppy/format stuff)\n\nGoal: have the WD ESDI as a secondary/controller and have both disks \nsimultaneously working. Being able to boot from the ESDI too would be \na nice bonus but is not expected.\n\nUltimate goal: have room for Linux et al.\nEx of scheme I have in mind: boot from IDE (HD or floppy) and mount\nthe ESDI as root. Not booting from ESDI, or even from HD, is acceptable.\n\nI have tried numerous (all!!) combinations to no avail. They work alone,\nor can coexist witout hang-ups but can't access the ESDI or the IDE, \ndepending on setup/jumpers.\n\nUseful suggestions might be:\n- How do I tell the BIOS setup about two ctrllers (I guess the 2nd HD\nis expected to hang off the same ctrller as the 1st).\n- Do I need some driver to make it work?\n- --- \" --- some new BIOS/chip for any of these cards?\n- do I have to buy another controller to make them HDs happy? IDE\nis cheaper; ESDI is hard to find and rather costly. I'm not \nrich or I wouldnt' try to scavenge around, so soft slns are preferred.\n- adapters of some sort; I can hold a soldering iron, and can change\na chip or put a jumper!\n\nAlso useful:\n- BBS or Hot-line of Western Digital.\n- ftp archives with relevant info.\n- expert stores in Toronto, Ontario area (that would be a miracle! haven't\nseen any really knowledgeable ppl in a while)\n- any hints into inner workings of the system ... \n- anything else that helped you in similar situations (prayers :-) )\n\nDirect or posted replies are ok.\n\tMany thanks,\n\t\t\tCat.", "\nSince the Mac uses ONLY SCSI-1 for hard drives YES the \"figure includes a\nhundred $$$ for SCSI drivers\" This is sloppy people and DUMB.\n\nOk once again with the SCSI spec list:\nSCSI-1 {with a SCSI-1 controler chip} synchronous range is indeed 0-5MB/s\n asynchronous range is slower at 0-3MB/s.\nSCSI-1 {With a SCSI-2 controller chip}: 4-6MB/s with 10MB/s burst {8-bit}\n Note the INCREASE in SPEED, the Mac Quadra uses this version of SCSI-1\n so it DOES exist. Some PCs use this set up too.\n\nSCSI-2 {8-bit/SCSI-1 mode}: 4-6MB/s with 10MB/s burst\n{for those who want SCSI-2 but don't want to pay for the 16-bit or 32-bit\n hardware or mess with the SCSI-2 software controllers. Usable by SCSI-1\n devices with close to 8-bit SCSI-2 speeds}\nSCSI-2 {16-bit/wide or fast mode}: 8-12MB/s with 20MB/s burst\nSCSI-2 {32-bit/wide AND fast}: 15-20MB/s with 40MB/s burst\n\nOn the other interfaces let DXB132@psuvm.psu.edu speak:\nAgain synchronous and asynchronous modes with asynchronous much slower\n {Range 0-5MB/s}\n\nOne problem is the inconsitant use of the term 'SCSI' in articles and by\npeople. Its PROPER meaning is \"The set of SCSI interfaces composed of\nSCSI-1 AND SCSI-2\"\nLook at the inconsitant use of SCSI in the below quote:\n(My comments in {})\n\nPC Magazine April 27, 1993:29 \"Although SCSI is twice as fast as ESDI,\n{This is asynchronous SCSI-1 with a SCSI-1 chip} 20% faster than IDE...\"\n{this is BOTH asynchronous SCSI-1 with a SCSI-2 chip AND 8-bit SCSI-2}\nTo read CONSITANTLY the quote SHOULD read:\n{asynchronous SCSI-1 with a SCSI-1 chip}\n\"Although asynchronous SCSI-1 is twice as fast as ESDI, one third the \nspeed of IDE...\"\nor {asynchronous SCSI-1 with a SCSI-2 chip or 8-bit SCSI-2}\n\"Although SCSI-1 with a SCSI-2 chip and 8-bit SCSI-2 are eight times as fast as\nESDI, 20% faster than IDE...\"\n\nNOTE the NONUSE of 'SCSI' by itself. This eliminates ambaguity.\n\nSCSI-1 drivers are somewhat reasonable while 16-bit and 32-bit SCSI-2 drivers \nare VERY expansive {8-bit SCSI-2 can use SCSI-1 drivers with little speed\ndegridation(the Mac Quadra does EXACTLY this.)}", "{Michael Fulbright} said\n \"Analog switches/Balanced\"\n to on 04-15-93 01:08\n MF> I am trying to build a synchronous demodulator and I've hit a snag.\n MF> In my application I want to be able to change the gain of an\n MF> op amp amplifier from 1 to -1, controlable via a digital input.\n MF> The most obvious way I've come up with is to use analog switches\n MF> to adjust the gain of the op amp. The only analog switch I have\n MF> experience with it the 4066. Unfortunately I want to switch an\n MF> AC signal which goes from about -5V to 5V, and the 4066 is only\n MF> for positive signals.\n\n How about using a 4053 it has a seperate ground for the\n analog outputs. It would get you 3 bits.\n\n MF> Another part which caught my eye was the Analog Devices AD630. This\n MF> is a balanced demodulator which appears to fill exactly the need I\n MF> have. The data sheet was somewhat skimpy on application notes. Could\n MF> someone comment on using this chip for the following application?\n\n Or how about a multiplying D/A convertor? This is\n essentiallty what you are makeing.\n\n\n Stephen Cyberman@Toz.Buffalo.NY.US\n Mangled on Fri 04-16-1993 at 13:36:11\n\n... Catch the Blue Wave!", "I've got a 386 motherboard for sale:\n\n i386-25DX processor w/2Mb RAM\n AMI BIOS w/setup\n Math Coprocessor socket\n 8 expansion slots\n Full sized motherboard--fits any full-sized case\n All manuals included\n\n Make me an offer!\n\n\nReason for sale: I've got a new HP workstation to play with now :)\n\nAlso: other peripherals (VGA card/moditor, TEAC Disk Drives, printer, etc)\n available.\n\nE-mail for more info. \n\n", "I recently bought a monichrome VGA monitor for $99 that will do\n1024x768 non-interlaced, which seems like a good deal. However, it is\na fixed-scan rate monitor, and only handles 52 kHz horizontal, I\nthink. With my Trident card it works only in graphics modes 5e and 62\n- not much use, since just about any application will set the mode to\nsomething else, especially if it wants to do text, I suppose. Anyway:\n\n - is there any way that I can use this as a general-purpose VGA\n display with a 1-meg trident 8900C card?\n\n - if not, can I do so with some sort of different VGA card?\n\n\t\t\t\tPeter Desnoyers", "\n\nLike who, f'rinstance? When I bought my system (November), no first, second,\nor third tier vendor could touch the price for the hardware/software\ncombination I got from GW2000.\n\n\nIf you were selling as many systems as fast as GW2000, you'd end up with four\nor five pissed-off customers too. And four or five ecstatic ones. And lots\nof satisfied ones...\n\n\nDon't minimize this; if you buy mail order, it's a good thing to know that\nyou'll get replacements parts, no questions asked, in a day or two, via FedEx.\n\n\nWhich they do in the vast majority of cases. Remember that it's only the\npeople on the tails of the curve who are motivated to write -- the ones who\nlove it, and the ones who hate it. You don't hear from the folks in the\nmiddle very often...", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\nWithout doing anything really tricky, the best I've seen is the\nBurr-Brown INA103. Their databook shows a good application of this\nchip as a phantom power mic pre.\n\n-- ", "Hello netters,\n\n\tI have a question concerning SCSI on DOS.\n\n\tI have a ST01 SCSI controller and two hard-disks conected\n\t(id's 0 and 1). I'd like to connect a SCSI streamer, but I\n\tdon't have software to access it. Does such a beast exist\n\tas shareware or PD ?\n\t\n\tAlso what if I want a third disk ? I know that DOs only can\n\t\"see\" two two physical and four logical disks. Will it be\n\tpossible to use extra disks ?\n\n\tThanks in advance.\n\n\tIb", "I keep finding these programmers in local junk shops. This may\nmean that they are indeed junk - but i'd like to hear from anyone \nelse that may have met up with them. The basic device is a\n\"Data I/O 29A universal programmer\", and the usual pod is a \n\"LogicPak 303A-Vo4\" with a \"303A-001\" programming tester/\nadapter. I'd really like to hear from anyone who knows whether\nthese monsters are worth bothering with. All i want to do is blast\nPALCE22V10s. - Ideas, folks\nMike.\n", "I thnik i'll be able to pick up a piar of Mac 512K's for nothing, but\ntheir power supplies are dead. Anyone know where I can pick up a pair\nof refurbished PS's for cheap (preferably mail order).\nYes, I do have uses planned fior them. One will be sold to a friend who\njust needs a terminal to connect via modem to his e-mail account.\nThe other will be used by me as a net client to run my downloads and/or\nprinting.", "I like it a lot. It is worth the additional expense. The only problem I\nfound is with MS Word (5.1a). If you have a table the is longer than\na page and the cells have a visible border, the last (bottom of page)\nline on the first page will be missing. It makes no difference how\nthe table is formatted. The worst is that it doesn't show up in word's\npage view or page preview. \n--\n\n\nArie.", "\n\n\nI sure did use version 3.2. It works fine with most software but NOT\nwith Animator Pro and that one is quite important to me. Pretty\nuseless program without that thing working IMHO.\nSo I hope the author can fix that.\n\n/Daniel...\n\n\n", "FOR SALE:\n\n\t1 ST4766E Seagate ESDI drive. 760 meg\t\t$500\n\t unformatted. Without controller. A\n\t friend has tested this on his controller\n\t and says that it works. As is.\n\n\n\t2 meg 256kx4 70ns DRAM.\t\t\t\t$ 3 each or $48\n\n\n\nPlease call (908) 219-5935 or email.\n", "Have anybody succeded in converting a atari monomchrome monitor into a\nmono VGA monitor. If so please let me know exactly how you did and what\ngraphics card you used.\n\n\t/Thanx", "well folks, my mac plus finally gave up the ghost this weekend after\nstarting life as a 512k way back in 1985. sooo, i'm in the market for a\nnew machine a bit sooner than i intended to be...\n\ni'm looking into picking up a powerbook 160 or maybe 180 and have a bunch\nof questions that (hopefully) somebody can answer:\n\n* does anybody know any dirt on when the next round of powerbook\nintroductions are expected? i'd heard the 185c was supposed to make an\nappearence \"this summer\" but haven't heard anymore on it - and since i\ndon't have access to macleak, i was wondering if anybody out there had\nmore info...\n\n* has anybody heard rumors about price drops to the powerbook line like the\nones the duo's just went through recently?\n\n* what's the impression of the display on the 180? i could probably swing\na 180 if i got the 80Mb disk rather than the 120, but i don't really have\na feel for how much \"better\" the display is (yea, it looks great in the\nstore, but is that all \"wow\" or is it really that good?). could i solicit\nsome opinions of people who use the 160 and 180 day-to-day on if its worth\ntaking the disk size and money hit to get the active display? (i realize\nthis is a real subjective question, but i've only played around with the\nmachines in a computer store breifly and figured the opinions of somebody\nwho actually uses the machine daily might prove helpful).\n\n* how well does hellcats perform? ;)\n\nthanks a bunch in advance for any info - if you could email, i'll post a\nsummary (news reading time is at a premium with finals just around the\ncorner... :( )\n--\nTom Willis \\ twillis@ecn.purdue.edu \\ Purdue Electrical Engineering", "\nYeh. Be tough to pick up UK Telly in your situation:-}\n\nNo signs of Type 259 ads in TV in the states yet, but I don't watch much,\nso I'm not in a real position to comment.\n\nBUT! I got my invite to the dealer introduction \"On the deck out back\".\nRSVP is on the way!!!!!!\n\n tom coradeschi <+> tcora@pica.army.mil", "\n\n\n\n\tTypical (in the old 2x-oversampling units) was a thirteen-tap\nFIR, implemented as a dedicated hardware addition circuit. At this kind\nof speed (slow, by digital standards) such an adder is much less\nexpensive than analog components of comparable precision.\n\n\tI gleaned this information from a hardware manual for\nan old CD player design; where one would find similar info for\na particular CD (the digital filter IS an interesting component,\nfrom my point of view), I have no idea. The digital filter\nis a kind of interpolation scheme (read a book on numerical \nanalysis, to see just how BROAD the term 'interpolation' is...),\n", "\nSuppose you have an idle app with a realized and mapped Window that contains\nXlib graphics. A button widget, when pressed, will cause a new item\nto be drawn in the Window. This action clearly should not call XCopyArea() \n(or equiv) directly; instead, it should register the existence of the new\nitem in a memory structure and let the expose event handler take care\nof rendering the image because at that time it is guaranteed that the\nWindow is mapped.", "there is a file out there (look for it with archie) that is called\n'theref22.zip' which has lots of info on various PC things,\namongst which is also a detailed description of all Floppy controller\ncommands, I think hard drive controller commands are not there.\n\nit is possible to read an entire track including all gaps, sector\nheaders etc. by setting sector size to something very large (like\n8K).", "...\n\nI don't know anything about a \"sunkbd\" patch, but I use the following\n.Xmodmap file (run from .xinitrc via \"xmodmap $HOME/.Xmodmap\", of course) for\nmy Type-5 UNIX keyboard: (It's a bit \"brute force\", however.)\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n!\n! Sun Type-5 UNIX keyboard remappings \n!\n! This remaps the arrow keys properly\n!\n! By default, the arrow keys on the keypad (Shift-8 = Up, Shift-4 = Left,\n! Shift-6 = Right, and Shift-2 = Down) work, but the arrow keys are not\n! assigned to any keysym\n!\nkeycode 27 = Up\nkeycode 31 = Left\nkeycode 34 = Down\nkeycode 35 = Right\n\n!\n! Now we want the Back Space key to emit the \"Delete\" keysym\n!\nkeycode 50 = Delete\n\n!\n! Other random mappings that aren't on by default\n!\n! SysRq/Print Screen key\nkeycode 29 = SunSys_Req Print\n! Break/Pause key\nkeycode 28 = Break Pause\n! Alt Graph key\nkeycode 20 = Mode_switch\n! PageUp key\nkeycode 103 = Prior\n! PageDown key\nkeycode 130 = Next\n! Insert key\nkeycode 51 = Insert\n!\n! Home, End keys = ???\n!\n! Open Look Functions\n!\n! Stop key (SunStop keysym == Cancel)\nkeycode 8 = SunStop\n! Again key (SunAgain == Redo)\nkeycode 10 = SunAgain\n! Props key \nkeycode 32 = SunProps\n! Undo key (SunUndo == Undo)\nkeycode 33 = SunUndo\n! Front key\nkeycode 56 = SunFront\n! Copy key\nkeycode 58 = SunCopy\n! Open key\nkeycode 79 = SunOpen\n! Paste key\nkeycode 80 = SunPaste\n! Find key (SunFind == Find)\nkeycode 102 = SunFind\n! Cut key\nkeycode 104 = SunCut\n", "\nI have a Centris 610 & want to get an IBM machine as well.\nTo save space on my desk, I would like to use one monitor\nfor both, with a switch-box. Does anyone know of a way to do\nthis?\n\n", "We have an old Sun3/60 here which gets occasional use. When X11R5 is started\non it any console messages during startup are undeletable. After X is fully\nstarted we run an xterm as the \"console\" - the problem is that any messages\nthat arrive before this starts go to the plain console. \"Refresh window\" fails\nto remove them. The messages are a real pain since they sit in the middle of\nthe screen obscuring anything else below them.\n\nAt boot time the 3/60 lists two framebuffers - /dev/cgfour0 and /dev/bwtwo1.\nWe're running X in color, and I suspect that maybe the offending messages are\non the B/W framebuffer, and thereby not getting deleted.\n\nMy question is: has anyone else seen this, and is there an easy way to get rid\nof these messages?\n\nPlease reply by e-mail to hughm@inmos.co.uk.\n\nHugh McIntyre.\nINMOS Ltd., Bristol, UK.\n\n(BTW: SunOS 4.0.3, X11R5, mwm).", "Hi \n\nI have heard about a linear mode for the ET4000, in which the 1Mb video \nmemory in linearly accesibly instead of the usual 64k pages. Does anyone\nknow more about this ? How can I enable it and to what address is the\nvideo memory mapped to ?", "Does anybody know the FTP site with the latest Windows drivers for the ATI\nGUP?\nThanks\n\n", "\nThey come with every Iris now. Nth also ships it with their latest\nversion of Nth Portable GL. I just got the update a couple of weeks\nago. I would assume that Silicon Graphics would license the source\nto you so that you can include it in your company's GL offering.\n", "\n\n\n\nWhat version of WinFAX do you have? The newest version (3.0) has an OCR\n(Optical Character Recognition) built in... what this means is that it can\ntake a fax (ie, a letter) and convert it into ASCII so that one can edit\nthe document w/o re-typing it... However, I found that the OCR that comes\npackaged with WINFAX does not work as well as OMNIpage Professional (also\nby Delrina software)... So, once again, WinFAX ver. 3.0 has what you are\nlooking for... Good luck!\n", "Markus> NNTP-Posting-Host: samos.uni-paderborn.de\n\n\nMarkus> Hello everybody out there !\n\nMarkus> I'm trying to compile X11R5pl23 and Motif 1.2.1 on a HP running\nMarkus> HP-UX 8.05. But it' seems to be not very succesful, because \nMarkus> I have only hp.cf config-files for HP-UX 7.0. \n\nMarkus> I tried standard cc and X was compiled with a lot of warnings.\nMarkus> The motif applications are compiled quite well, but they won't run.\nMarkus> I receive the XKeysymDB error which is reported in FAQ, but\nMarkus> I cannot fix it. The XKeysymDB-file is at the right location and it\nMarkus> works fine under SunOS.\nMarkus> Probably I have started the compilation Prozess only with a wrong\nMarkus> config-file.\n\nMarkus> Please help me !\nMarkus> \nMarkus> Thanx in advance \nMarkus> Markus\n\nIf you installed X lib Xt by redefining ProjectRoot, you will find that\n during the install it recompiles one of the files in X lib that does the\nsearch for XKeysmDB and embeds the search path for the file based on whatever\nProjectRoot was defined. TO confirm this what happened, because I'm \nguessing, go to mit/lib/X and do\nstrings XStrKeySym.o | egrep XKeysymDB", "While I cannot answer questions about running XDM over a DECnet, I can\nsay that the following defines must be added to the site.def before\nbuilding R5 before any X clients will work over a DECnet.\n\nFrom site.def\n\n#define ConnectionFlags -DTCPCONN -DUNIXCONN -DDNETCONN\n#define ExtraLibraries -ldnet\n\nHoping this helps,\n\nGeorge\n\n--\n/*******************************************************************\n* The opinions expressed are those of the author and in no way *\n* represent the opinions of the CUNY Graduate School, its agencies *\n* or personnel. mcc@timessqr.gc.cuny.edu || CMCGC@CUNYVM.BITNET *\n*******************************************************************/", "\nWhich translates to 7% not satisfied. I don't think it's the awkward \nrecursive deletion that's bugging people, it certainly isn't the nice Windows \ninterfaces for new DOS accessories (CPAV, defrager, undelete).\n\n\tAs far as I've noticed, it's DoubleSpace crashes.\n\nFrankly, the fairly high rates of DoubleSpace crashes I've heard of surprises \nme! I figured that since the OS is presumably aware of DoubleSpace, it is \nless likely to crash (unlike Stacker, which fools the OS... but DO is gullible \nanyway :). DOS 6 _is_ aware of DoubleSpace isn't it?\n\nAnyway, good job on DOS 5, and DOS 6 is good for new users. Just beware the \ndoublespace!\n\nRob\n\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nRmohns@vax.clarku.edu | Rob Mohns | Annoy Rush Limbaugh. Think for yourself.", "Oh yeah! I just got my new Eizo Flexscan yesterday (to replace my old 8515), and\nI tried it with 1360x1024. This mode is just great! I can get four perfectly readable\ncommand windows on the screen! And if I need more colors, I can go back to 1024x768\nor even 800x600.\nOne thing I am wondering though: Why isn't there a MONxxxx.DGS file which contains\nALL the resolutions up to 1360x1024? Now I have to change the XGASETUP.PRO every\ntime I want to switch, instead of simply going through the system settings of OS/2.\nRegards, Martin Erzberger\n", "A posting in another news group I read a while ago said that \nPC-Xview and PC-Xremote allow you to use Xterm. \nCall NCD @ 503-641-2200 for more info. \n\nHope it helps,\n\n-Hao\n-- \n---------------------------------------------------------------------\n Hao Zhang, Dept. of Stat., Wharton School, Univ. of Penn.\n zhang48@wharton.upenn.edu hzhang@compstat.wharton.upenn.edu", "I edited a few newsgroup from that line (don't like to crosspost THAT\nmuch). I can't compare the two, but I recently got an HP DeskJet 500.\n\nI'm very pleased with the output (remember that I'm used to imagens,\nlaser and postscript printers at school -- looks very good. You have\nto be careful to let it dry before touching it, as it will smudge.\n\nThe deskjet is SLOW. This is in comparison to the other printers I\nmentioned. I have no idea how the bubblejet compares.\n\nThe interface between Win3.1 and the printer is just dandy, I've not\nhad any problems with it.\n\nHope that helps some.\n\n--Cindy\n\n--\nCindy Tittle Moore", "Who has experience with porting a GL-program to an Alpha APX \nworkstation with Kubota's Denali 3D-Graphic.\nIs there any problems?\nIs the real graphic-performance like a SGI R4000 Indigo XS24Z?\n", "\nI've been using MS Access (still available from some stores for $99.00)\nand I am quite pleased with it. It's relatively easy to learn, very easy\nto use and somewhat easy to program. I highly recomend it, particularly\nat $99.00! I have not used Paradox for Windows, but I don't expect it to\nbe $30.00 better than Access (IMHO).\n", "Why is Win 3.1 sometimes so finicky?\nI have a new DELL 486DX2/66mhz 8 megs RAM.\nWindows was working just great. I had a Bus mouse and mother board problem.\nDELL replaced the mouse, gave me a newer mouse driver for windows\nand replaced the motherboard. Just prior to this problem windows would\n]only load up every other time. I would get the LOGO and either it would\ngo on into windows or LOCK UP. This was very consistent EVERY OTHER TIME.\n\nNow with the new motherboard and all, it still does the same thing.\nThe computer is less than one month old. At first it worked FINE!\nI can get into windows each time now with the win/s command.\nThis forces Standard mode. Things seem to run slower. I mainly\nuse windows apps, but in standard mode there is no virtual mem.....\nplus it is slower.\n\nI re-loaded windows, it still does the same thing. Should I first delete\neverything in all windows dir's? I did not because I have so much \nadded in sub dir's etc.\n\nReally puzzling why ENHANCED MODE would not load each time but consistently\nevery other time. Standard mode each time......\n\nANY THOUGHTS OR COMMENTS ???\n\nC-ya..... /\\/\\artin", "molecules has evolved from an esoteric academic subject into\na international industry. Computer graphics has played a\ndecisive role in this transformation by allowing chemists to\nbuild, visualize and interact with complex geometrical objects.\n \nWhile computer scientists are conversant in the language of their\nown discipline, they are often unfamiliar with the terminology,\nsimulation techniques and practical needs of research chemists.\nSimilarly, chemists are often unfamiliar with the latest paradigms\nand technological advances in graphical computing.\n \nThis interdisciplinary course is intended to bridge the gap\nbetween computer science and chemistry and to equip chemistry\nresearchers who wish to be more than just casual users of\nprepackaged graphics software. Although this is not intended to\nbe a course in computational chemistry or drug design, data sets\nfrom chemical research problems will be used in lab and students\nwill be encouraged to bring data sets of their own. Lab exercises\nand projects will be carried out using data-flow programming\n(IBM Visualization Data Explorer software) and students will have\naccess to Cornell Theory Center computing resources, including video\nrecording equipment.\n \nAudience: researchers and students in the chemical and biological\n sciences interested in integrating state-of-the-art\n computer graphics into their research; computer scientists\n wishing to gain familiarity with a major application of\n scientific visualization.\n \n The class size will be limited to 25 participants on a\n first-come first-served basis.\n \nLevel: Graduate/advanced undergraduate, 1 or 2 Credits. May be taken\n without credit as a workshop. Calculus, linear algebra\n and introductory chemistry required. Familiarity with Unix,\n X-windows and C is useful but not required.\n \nDate: June 14-25, 1993 (2 Credits)\n June 14-18, 1993 (1 or 0 credits)\n \nTime: Mon-Fri 9:00 am to 12:00 pm and 1:00 pm to 4:00 pm\n \nCost: 0 or 1 credit $410\n 2 credits $820\n \nFormat\n \nThe course will be held in the Theory Center training facility\nwhere computer workstations will be available. Daily lectures will be\ninterspersed with laboratory exercises and ample time will be provided\nfor project enablement and familiarization with the new computing\nenvironment. Students enrolled for one credit will be graded on the basis\nof their laboratory exercises and short final project. Those enrolled\nfor a second credit will receive more advanced lectures, be given\nmore time for project development and meet daily to share experience\nand discuss problems encountered.\n \nContent (may vary)\n \n Elements of computer graphics\n polygonal rendering, lighting models, ray tracing, volumetric\n rendering, stereo graphics, animation, introduction to data-flow\n programming (DX), interactivity.\n \n Representing the atom\n size, time and energy scales\n basic classical and quantum mechanics\n \n Important categories of molecules\n small molecules, biopolymers, surfaces and catalysts,\n miscellaneous current applications\n \n Data formats and conversions\n \n Advanced molecular graphics techniques\n \n Types of simulation and experiment\n electronic structure, molecular dynamics/mechanics\n electrostatics, X-ray crystallography, NMR, quantum\n dynamics and spectroscopy.\n \nInstructors\n \nThe course will be taught by two instructors. Topics related to computer\ngraphics will be handled by Dr. Bruce Land, Project Leader of Visualization,\nCornell National Supercomputing Facility. Chemistry-specific aspects\nof the course will be handled by Dr. Richard E. Gillilan, Visualization\nSpecialist and Research Scientist, Cornell National Supercomputing Facility\n \nTO REGISTER: mail completed form to\n \n Cornell University\n School of Continuing Education\n and Summer Sessions\n B20 Day Hall\n Ithaca, NY 14853-2801\n \nQuestions: Richard Gillilan (607) 254-8757\n richard@tc.cornell.edu\n \nIMPORTANT: Acceptance will be first-come, first-served and based\n on a target class size of 15 full-credit and 10 single\n or non-credit participants.\n \nDEADLINE: May 20, 1993\n \n \n----------------------- Application Form ----------------------\n \n Scientific Visualization of Chemical Systems\n \n Chemistry 782 Computer Science 718\n \nU.S. Social Security number (if available) _____ - ___ - _______\n \nCornell ID number (if available) ________________\n \nName: _______________________________________________________________\n Last First Middle Suffix (Jr, etc)\n \nAddress: _____________________________________________________________\n \n _____________________________________________________________\n \n _____________________________________________________________\n \n \nHome Address (where grades will be mailed):\n \n _____________________________________________________________\n \n _____________________________________________________________\n \n _____________________________________________________________\n \nLocal Phone ________________ Home Phone _______________\n \n \nAcademic Discipline _____________________________\n \n \nCourse number (check one): __ Chemistry __ Computer Science\n \nCredits: __.__\n \nStatus: __ Undergraduate Student __ Smart Node Consultant\n __ Graduate Student __ Smart Node Advisor\n __ Post-Doctoral\n __ Faculty __ Other (explain) _______________\n \nCorporate Commercial\n \n __ Research Staff __ Other (explain) ______________\n \nName of Firm ___________________________________________________________\n \nIndicate which of the following best describes you (optional):\n \n __ African American __ Alaskan Native __ Asian American\n __ Caucasian __ Hispanic American __ Native American\n \nList special needs (e.g. mobility impaired): ____________________________\n \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n \nAccommodations:\n \nBlocks of rooms are available at the Sheraton. Reservations\nmust be made no later than May 17. Be sure to tell them you\nare here for the \"Cornell Theory Center Visualization Workshop\".\n \n Sheraton Inn\n One Sheraton Drive, Ithaca\n (607) 257-2000\n FAX: 607-257-398\n Rates starting at $64.00\n \nOther local motels (Make your reservation early! Our\nworkshop coincides with other Cornell events)\n \nEcono Lodge\n Cayuga Mall 2303 N. Triphammer Rd. Ithaca\n (607) 257-1400\n (800) 466-6900\n FAX: (607) 257-6359\n Rates from $35.10 (ask for the Cornell Rate)\n \n \nDorm rooms have also been reserved participants\n(both credit and non-credit). Participants who\nare interested in dorm rooms should call (below)\nfor registration information:", "Hello,\n\nwe need the code for decompression of Quicktime JPEG Pict files, as they\ndon't conform to usual jpeg compressors, which are available in source.\nThe code should be in C Pascal or Modula. The code will be used on several\nplatforms to view pictures over ISDN. Perhaps a special hardware will be\nput around it (much less then a mac! perhaps only a DSP with some support\nchips)\nIf the code is not available, perhaps the algorithm is available to\ndecompress\nthem.\n\nChristian Bauer", "Due to a number of bugs in GKS4.1 under SUNOS 4.1.3, I installed\npatches 100533-15 and 100755-01. Patch 100533-15 appears to\nwork fine and has fixed a number of problems. Patch 100755-01,\nhowever, which is required to fix a number of other annoying\nbugs, breaks with our applications.\n\nIs there a more recent revision of patch 10075?\n\nAny other ideas?", "I need triangulized data of some nice looking model with some\ntexture mapping. It would be better if the parametric values\nof each vertex( for the surface before triangulized ) are\navaliable along with the Euclidean points so that we\ncould use them for texture mapping.", "\n\nFrankly, I think this model is a screwup. It does not have PostScriptlevel\n2, only has 13 fonts, and does not even have fine print or photograde, or\ngrayshare. Even the 300 model has this! I am shocked by the kind of\nfeatures you get for this printer. I myself was hoping for some decent\nprinter to replace the Personal Laser Writers. \n-- \nA motion picture major at the Brooks Institute of Photography, CA\nSanta Barbara and a foreign student from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.", "\nIf you are just getting sick of the real estate used by the HCT373, you could\nalways use the approach I have seen one designer take - he stuck the chip in\nthe middle of the EPROM socket, under the EPROM. Naturally, you have to use\nan IC socket with the right dimensions, but layout is really easy.", "I'm sure Intel and Motorola are competing neck-and-neck for \ncrunch-power, but for a given clock speed, how do we rank the\nfollowing (from 1st to 6th):\n 486\t\t68040\n 386\t\t68030\n 286\t\t68020\n\nWhile you're at it, where will the following fit into the list:\n 68060\n Pentium\n PowerPC\n\nAnd about clock speed: Does doubling the clock speed double the\noverall processor speed? And fill in the __'s below:\n 68030 @ __ MHz = 68040 @ __ MHz\n\nThanks very much. I'd appreciate hearing any further explanations\nfrom any experienced folks out there, too! \n\n \nP.S. Folks have been having trouble replying to me lately with the \"reply\"\n command. Try typing my address by hand and it should work. Thanks!", "Upgraded my friend's 486DX/33 and have the chip for sale, 486DX/33 Intel\nCPU chip, first US$265+shipping will get the chip. or you can make the\noffer if you don't like the price... Thanks.\n\n", ": Sorry, I did`nt tell exactly what I need.\n: \n: I need a utility for automatic updating (deleting, adding, changing) of *.ini files for Windows. \n: The program should run from Dos batchfile or the program run a script under Windows.\n: \n: I will use the utility for updating the win.ini (and other files) on meny PC`s. \n: \n: Do I find it on any FTP host?\n: \n: Svein\n\nWell, in the latest Windows magazine, there is an advertisement for a program\nthat will help you uninstall windows apps from your harddisk (Uninstaller)\nbut it can be used to update a network, but only for deleting, not adding\nor changing their *.ini files. (Uninstaller, by MicroHelp Inc. $79\n1-800-922-3383)\n\nI am also looking for an *.ini updater for my PC network, and so far without\nany luck. So for the time being I have been pushing DOS and it's batch\nlanguage to its limit...look into DOS 5.0's (I am assumming that DOS 6.0\nhas the same command, maybe even more..or less..improved) REPLACE command.\nI use this to update our users personal files with a master set in a batch\nfile that is run everytime they invoke Windows. This basically overwrites\ntheir color schemes, but does what I need it to do. Not neat, but does\nthe job...I'm looking for a better solution though.\n\nMike\n\nJust relaying what I know...a not for profit service.\n\n", "Hi,\n\nI just got XFree86 running on my pc with Consensys and encountered a few\nminor (I hope) probems.\n\nThe pc is hooked up to a LAN where I want remote X applications to \nconnect to my X-server. I believe the command to permit this is\nxhost. When I'm logged on my pc and type 'xhost + ' , I get the error message saying\n\"You must be on local machine to enable access\". \nwhat does this mean ? ain't I already on the local machine?\n\nAnother problem I have is with the mouse movement. I find that the \nmouse cursor moves extremely slow and choppy.\nHow can I make the mouse cursor move more accurately?\n\n\nthank in advance.\nAny help is much appreciated.\n\nplease send replies to christy@alex.qc.ca.\n", "\nI think the original poster meant opening the mouse, not just\nreleasing the ball and getting to the rollers. I found that on the\noriginal ADB mouse, sometimes unscrewing the two halves allowed for\neasier cleaning.\n\nIf the original poster has his answer, I'll ask: How do you open the\nnew ergonomic mouse? By open, I mean split the two halves to get at\nthe guts. It isn't obvious to me based on the 5 minute look I spent\nwith one at the office yesterday as there are no visible screw\nheads.", "Hello,\n\nI already tried our national news group without success.\n\nI tried to replace a friend's original IBM floppy disk in his PS/1-PC\nwith a normal TEAC drive.\nI already identified the power supply on pins 3 (5V) and 6 (12V), shorted\npin 6 (5.25\"/3.5\" switch) and inserted pullup resistors (2K2) on pins\n8, 26, 28, 30, and 34.\nThe computer doesn't complain about a missing FD, but the FD's light\nstays on all the time. The drive spins up o.k. when I insert a disk,\nbut I can't access it.\nThe TEAC works fine in a normal PC.\n\nAre there any points I missed?\n\nThank you.\n\tVolkmar\n", "Some time ago (about 1 month) there was a bit of discussion\n about a universal VESA driver for > 8bit cards. It was in\n the file uvesa32.zip. Well i can't find it, does anyone know\n where it is (gorilla.something.something.au), and what sort\n of cards it works for ?\n\n Also would it be pushing my luck to ask for someone to post\n it to some appropriate group.", "Hi.\n \n Well, I really hate to make a decision, but recently, I have to choose\n whether stacker 3.0 or dos 6.0 with double space for my poor HD.\n I am using windwos 3.1 and I hope what I choose will live with windows.\n\n Any help will be appreciated.\n\n\n ", "\nIt will certainly *help* to be able to run Windows and Dos apps but\nthe only way that Solaris or OS/2 or any other scheme is going to \nchallenge Microsoft is if they can somehow get the prices for Solaris\nor OS/2 or whatever apps, down to a DOS competitive level. Everybody\nwould rather run a Solaris app on a Solaris system and an OS/2 app on\nan OS/2 system, they usually just can't afford a Unix system because\nof the high prices for good Unix software.\n\n\n", "Hi,\nI have a problem when compiled Wcl 2.02 in SCO ODT 2.0:\n\n\n cc -c -Ox -I.. -I/usr/include Xt4GetResL.c\nXt4GetResL.c\nXt4GetResL.c(47) : error C2065: '_XtConstraintBit' : undefined\n*** Error code 1\n\nAlthough I follow the instructions in file README_BUILD to build Wcl in SCO \nplatform, this problem didn't resolve.\n\nSo I have some questions related to this matter:", "\n Has anyone taken a look at the new ViewSonic 17? They claim\n 1280x1024 at 76Hz. How does it compare with the T560i in terms of\n price, and quality of display?\n\nI'm interested in the new ViewSonic 17 as well. Has anyone seen one\nof these monitors in the flesh?\n", "I would like to change all of the system fonts in windows... I have a \nprogram that will generate system fonts from truetype, but i was \nwondering if there is a problem to help you set up all your system\nfonts.\n\nAlso, how do i change the icon text color... all of my icon text is black,\nand i want to change it... couldn't find any options in control panel or\nin win.ini\n\nbrad cain\nbrad@bach.udel.edu\n\n", "\n\nThere are several CRT-to-film writers around. Agfa has some, they also might\nbe called Matrix?, and I am pretty sure other companies sell the same\nequipment. You might want to talk to any company in your area that does\npresentation slides or offers graphics services. They should have those\nmachines and they might point you to a local vendor. From there on it's all\na question of money. They units are essentially high res CRTs plus a filter\nwheel plus a 35mm camera and a computer hook-up.\n\n\nReiner", "ALL,\n\nFinally cleaned out the storage room and have the following items\nfor sale:\n\n C-64 Computer\n 2-1542 Disk Drives\n 1351 Mouse\n all cables\n lots of software (mostly games)\n\nThe computer and drives work (hooked it to the TV to test)\nexcept for sound-evidently the sound chip is gone. When GEOS\nwas loaded, the mouse would not respond, so assume it is bad.\nCould be used for the games, or for spare parts.\n\nIf interested, would accept any reasonable offers.\n\nSend replies to ihlpl!rsbrd or call (708) 979-8816.", "Boy am I glad that I didn't start out with one of thos PS/2 computers.\nI started the upgrade operation out by spending $235 for a AMD386DXL-40\nForex upgradable mother board from Midwest Micro. When it was time to\nupgrade I bought a Intel 486DX2-50 cpu for $350 and was finished.\nI still don't see why they ever made the 486\\50 cpu at all. Its to\nfast for both ISA and LB and VESA boards.. \n\nSome test results taken on my mb and 486DX2-50 cpu and some others...\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nX-TAL UPGRADES & SPECS - TURBO MODE TESTS - WITH FAN & HEATSINK KIT - ISA BUS\n\nX-TAL MHZ CPU MHZ CPU SPEED MHZ FPO MHZ VIDEO CHR/MS\n\n40.00 -386AND /3=13.33MHZ 40.544 62.37 --- 6510.00\n40.00 -386AMD /4=10.00MHZ 40.544 62.37 --- 6467.00 *\n\n50.000-486DX2-50 /2=12.5MHZ 50.041 167.22 441.53 6105.00\n52.361-486DX2-50 /2=13.1MHZ 52.703 176.03 464.81 6425.00 *\n54.058-486DX2-50 /2=13.5MHZ 54.120 180.81 477.40 6642.00\n56.644-486DX2-50 /3=9.37MHZ 56.220 189.46 500.25 4593.00\n66.666-486DX2-50 /3=11.1MHZ 66.759 222.99 588.81 5401.00\n\nWITH ALL TESTS THE 486DX2-50 RAN ICE COLD! NOT EVEN UP TO ROOM TEMP DID IT GO!\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n50.000-486DX50 /? 49.998 167.12 408.89 2463.00\n??.???-486DX2-66 /? 84.234 224.00 372.00 10570.00\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nCPU/ISA BUS X-TAL MHZ BUS SPEED/MHZ SPEEDSTAR 24X VIDEO CARD\n\nAMD386DXL-40 40.000 /2 = 20.00 MHZ INOPERATIVE\nAMD386DXL-40 40.000 /3 = 13.33 MHZ 6510.00 CHR/MS\nAMD386DXL-40 40.000 /4 = 10.00 MHZ 6467.00 CHR/MS\nAMD386DXL-40 40.000 /5 = 8.00 MHZ 4020.00 CHR/MS\nAMD386DXL-40 40.000 /6 = 6.66 MHZ NOT TESTED\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n486DX2-50 50.000 /2 = 12.51 MHZ 6105.00 CHR/MS\n486DX2-50 50.000 /3 = 8.34 MHZ NOT TESTED\n486DX2-50 50.000 /4 = 6.25 MHZ NOT TESTED\n486DX2-50 50.000 /5 = 5.00 MHZ NOT TESTED\n486DX2-50 50.000 /6 = 4.16 MHZ NOT TESTED\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n486DX2-50 56.64 /2 = 14.16 MHZ 6826.00 CHR/MS\n486DX2-50 56.64 /3 = 9.44 MHZ 4593.00 CHR/MS\n486DX2-50 56.64 /4 = 7.08 MHZ NOT TESTED\n486DX2-50 56.64 /5 = 5.66 MHZ NOT TESTED\n486DX2-50 56.64 /6 = 4.72 MHZ NOT TESTED\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n486DX2-50 66.66 /2 = 16.67 MHZ NOT TESTED\n486DX2-50 66.66 /3 = 11.11 MHZ 5401.00 CHR/MS\n486DX2-50 66.66 /4 = 8.33 MHZ NOT TESTED\n486DX2-50 66.66 /5 = 6.67 MHZ NOT TESTED\n486DX2-50 66.66 /6 = 5.56 MHZ NOT TESTED\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n486DX2-50 54.12 /2 = 13.53 MHZ 6642.00 CHR/MS\n486DX2-50 52.36 /2 = 13.17 MHZ 6425.00 CHR/MS\n ", "I'm looking to buy the annual Playboy magazine issue featuring\ngirls from colleges around the US. Specificly, I want issues from\n1989, 1990, 1991 and 1992. One of these features a girl I went to\nhigh school with, so I'm curious to see how it turned out. All help\nis appreciated.\n", "Hi netters,\n\nQuantum LPS 240AT harddisk forsale.\n\n3.5\" frame, 1/3 height.\nIDE format, master or slave\n723 cyl 13 hd 51 s/t = 234.9 real megs\nAccess time of 16 ms.\n256K cache on the drive\n\nAsking $300. ", "\nHow hard would it be to somehow interface them to some of the popular \nMotorola microcontrollers. I am a novice at microcontrollers, but I am\nstarting to get into them for some of my projects. I have several 256k\nSIMMs laying around from upgraded Macs and if I could use them as \"free\"\nmemory in one or two of my projects that would be great. One project that\ncomes to mind is a Caller ID device that would require quite a bit of RAM\nto store several hundered CID records etc...\n\n - Dan\n-- \n Daniel Joseph Rubin rubin@cis.ohio-state.edu ", "\n# when soaking in water). Lasers are slightly sharper, but the only\n# instance where I needed precise layouts was Printed Circuit Board\n# Transparencies for PhotoEtching. I found a Textronix color Phaser\n# Postscript (Thermal Wax Transfer) to work the best to make PCB\n# negatives directly onto a transparency.\n# \n\nDid the deskjet work at all when printing on transparencies ? If it\ndid, what sort of resolution could it manage ?\n\n-adrian\n\n", "\n\nYou wanna do masking. Build a bitmap (pixmap of depth one) where all pixels\nyou name \"opaque\" are 1 (that get copied) and the others are 0. Use this\nbitmap as the clip_mask in the gc used for XCopyArea(), and remember to\nadjust the clip_origin coordinates to the XCopyArea() blit origin.\n\nThe Mouse pointer (besides from that it is driven using RAMDAC analog\nmapping on most hardwares) uses a mask, too.\n\nBut be warned: blitting through a mask and especially moving around this mask\nis annoying slow on most xservers... it flickers even at 40 MIPS...\n", "From article <1993May1.092058.1@aurora.alaska.edu>, by pstlb@aurora.alaska.edu:\n\n\nSince this was posted on comp.ai, I assume there is an AI angle to this. Hacking is\nwhat AI students do when they're really supposed to be doing something else, e.g.\nthesis research & write up, getting their supervisors' pet programs to run properly,\netc. No-one gets much glory for hacking, and no-one gets any money out of it.\nProducing good free software requires an enormous investment of time & resources that\nnot many people can, or want to, afford - particularly during a recession.\n\nIn addition, over the last 10 years, I think there has been a de-emphasis on producing\nrunning programs in AI research, and a greater emphasis on more formal approaches to\nproblem-solving. Students have been proving theorems instead of writing programs.\nAt a conference a year or two ago, Johann de Kleer suggested that everyone should\n'Get back to the keyboard' and write more programs that demonstrate their ideas -\nand I have to say I'm inclined to agree.\n\n(I don't claim to be a superhacker, but I don't think that invalidates my remarks.\nAnd I'm sure this isn't the whole story.)\n\n", "Did anyone install xdbx v2.1.2 on SGI workstation ?\n\n\nThanks for your answer.\t\tGildas PERROT.", "I missed the first part of this thread; are you switching line level or\nspeaker level audio?\nIf line level, there's a single chip 4x1 *stereo* audio switch available\nthat switches 4 two-channel inputs into 1 two-channel output, and also\nhas a mute function, all controllable with ttl inputs. LM1037, I think?\n\nIf speaker level, never mind. :(", "\nyodicet>\nyodicet>\nyodicet>\n\nHmm. You don't say..\n\nL.\n\"Yeh, Buddy.. | larry@psl.nmsu.edu (Larry Cunningham)| _~~_\n I've got your COMPUTER! | % Physical Science Laboratory | (O)(-)\n Right HERE!!\" | New Mexico State University | /..\\ \n (computer THIS!) | Las Cruces, New Mexico, USA 88003 | <> ", "\n\nOK, never heard of Cross filters, but Roberts, Prewitt and Sobel filters\nare standard spatial masks for edge detection. Highpass filtering does a\ngood job of detecting edges, too. A good reference for all sorts of general\ndigital image processing is the book _Digital Image Processing_ by\nRafael C. Gonzalez and Richard E. Woods. Addison-Wesley Publishing Co. 1992.\nISBN 0-201-50803-6\n\nI've used this source to do the above filters and many other things as a\ngrad project. Not too dificult to do. The worst part is loading in the\nimages from TIFF/GIF/IFF-ILBM/whatever! :)", ": \n: What are the current products available to upgrade the resolution?\n: Which ones support postscript?\n: \n: Any experiences with them, either good or bad?\n: \n: Is the quality difference really noticable?\n: \n: I'm planning on producing camera ready copy of homes. Will the higher\n: resolution be noticed for these?\n: \nIf you are talking about laser jet 4 then I believe it has to be postscript.\nI don't see any advantage to using PCL when you have a peice of hardware\nplugged into the LJ4 that is doing the work and it can support any language\nthat is suited for the job. Besides I don't think PCL is even capable of\nhandling 1200 dpi specifications. I only have experience with the Laser\nMaster Winjet 1200 which brings the LJ4 up to 1200 dpi and it uses postscript.\nIt also has a fast print mode which is not postscript, and it is at a lower\nresolution (600dpi I think), but it is FAST!!!! This particular product\nuses your host processor to process the postscript, so even with a decent\nPC you know it's going to be slow i.e. slow compared to a high-end workstation\nprocessed PS.\n\nThe quality difference is very noticable and is almost worth the wait (for\nthe PS processing) - I'm rather impatient.\n\nWe were using it for B&W camera images (RS-170). The gray scale image was\naccepted by MS Word and handed to the Winjet PS printer driver which converts\nthe image into postscript and then hands it off to the Winjets postscript\nprocessor. The postscript is rendered into RAM (lots of it) and when it\nis done it shoots it directly to the printer. The PS processor can also\naccept PS files created from other sources including DOS applications, but\nWindows has to be running at the time of printing. The PS processor is\nresponsible for the halftoning and I'd say it does a pretty good job. Our\ncamera images came out very good in my opinion. (not as good as Laser Master's\ndemo though).\n\nI don't know how many other similar products are out there but I would be\nsurprised if there are several.", "\n\nThere was a post about something similar a while back. It seems windows\ndoes *not* take it upon itself to free up any sys. resources an\napplllication is using when that application is done. That job is left\nentirely to the application. that is, the application has to clean up\nafter itself when it quits.\n\nAnyone out there know if there is a utility for windows which will\nclean up sys. resources when an application quits (mother.zip???).\n\npeace,\nMickey", "Hi,\n\nI'm looking for a X-Windows tool that can display data (in a\n2D plot) in real time with a couple different signals. \nAnybody know of such a gem? Please Email me as I do not read\nthis group often.", " \nInteresting idea. \nRegular televeision seems to do this sort of thing too with politically correct \nshows.\n", "Anyone have any experiences to report using PhoneNet PC?\nWe're thinking about investing in one of these cards for\nour lone PC at work.\n+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++\nKen Gantz kgantz@cup.portal.com\n+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++\n", "Does anyone have any experience using LCIII with MIDI? Do they get along OK?\nI have heard that the IIvx is not suitable for MIDI, but I have not heard anyon\ne say anything definitive about LCIII and MIDI? If you have had experience, wh\nat MIDI interface have you used? Anyone used Finale software in this setting?\n Please e-mail. I will summarize.\n\nThanks,", "This is a reposting 'cause two of the bags are out the door, and I took\ndimensions of #1 and #5 (important to camcorder users).\n\n 1. Large padded Cordura bag (maker unknown) orange exterior, black\n\t straps and interior. Five outside pockets plus lid compartment.\n\t Lid overlaps. Internal dividers can be repositioned. Held\n\t my whole 2-1/4 Bronica system, Metz flash, etc. Main chamber\n\t (not incl lid and pockets) is 18.5\"W x 9\"H x 7\" D. Very\n\t strong bag, good for medium format users or videographers.\n\n 2. Small \"Nikon\" shoulder bag. SORRY. SOLD & SHIPPED.\n\n 3. Small \"Nikon\" belt pouch. Khaki like #2. Similar in design to\n\t US Army ammo pouch - belt clips, etc. Holds flash or small\n\t zoom (35-70) fixed lens, lens cleaner, etc. $5.\n\n 4. Domke belt pouch, black. SORRY. SOLD & SHIPPED.\n\n 5. Coast camera bag - tan with brown strap. Main and front pocket.\n\t Can hold AF slr with small zoom plus flash, film, etc. 10.5\"H\n\t x 9.5 H x 4.5 D plus 10.5\" x 6.5 x 1.5 front pouch. It\n\t looks like Gore-Tex but I don't think it really is. $15.\n\nTERMS: Payment in advance by money order/bank check, or cash. Buyer\npays shipping. #1 should go UPS. For the others, send me an adequate\nself addressed mailing envelope (padded recommended) with enough postage.\nPlease contact me by email if interested.\n\n /|/| /||)|/ /~ /\\| |\\|)[~|)/~ | Everyone's entitled to MY opinion.\n / | |/ ||\\|\\ \\_|\\/|_|/|)[_|\\\\_| | goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil\n========Imagination is more important than knowledge. - Albert Einstein=======\n\n\n\n\n", "Hi there,\n\nIs there any utility available that will make Windows\nrandomly select one of your windows directory's .BMP\nfiles as the wallpaper file?\n\nNate\n--------------------------\nNathan C. Crowell, Dept. of Materials Science/ACRL\n\nWorcester Polytechnic Institute E-mail: bigal@wpi.wpi.edu\n\n\"A flower?\"-Genesis \"Supper's Ready\"", "I am looking for the exact address of the Symantec Coporatoin, which \ndistributes Norton Desktop and other Windows software.\n\nThe information I am looking for is:\n\nMail address\nPhone number\nFax number\nE-mail address\n\nThanks in advance.\n", "Hi!\n\t\nIs it possible through either pin configuration or through software\nprogramming to change the IP numbers on an ethernet card?\n\t\nThanks in Advance!\n\n-- \n=-Dave *Tigger!*", "I would appreciate the driver name from CICA which functions as a 256\ncolor driver for a Quadtel video card. The type of chip or chipset used\nwould suffice as well.", "Interesting delema for all those out there.\nMy school is discussing installing a Mac lab of 10 to 15 stations for our Bio\n100 to 103 classes to do a study with pig disections. (no joke) Here is the\ndeal. We can get this grant to do a study on if it is more feasible to do a\ndisection via the computer or via the real thing. My problem is I was somehow\ndrawn into this project (being done by students who want to go Mac but know\nNADA about them, being the man mac man on campus, guess who they came to?) so I\nwnt to know what would probably be the best hardware to fill the follwoing\nlist? Right now we are looking at the C650 8/80 and the 2vx 5/80 platforms.\nOk here it goes:\n\n\tWe are using cd-rom, so ought we go with the internal Apple Cd-roms\noffered as options in the 650 and vx or go external. It is a matter of price\nand reliability, the second being VERY important.\n\tHow much RAM? I was thinking 5-8 more leaning towards 8? What do you\nthink?\n\tOk, called apple educational discounts and they said their keyboard\n(extended) is 160.30. Is it better to go with the Apple and their long time\ngreat wear and tear record, or is there a 3rd party extended keyboard that is\njust a reliable? Price?\n\tPrinters: One color printer we are presently leaning towrds the\nThermal Wax Tektronic 200e or 200i (Probably the e as we are going to limit\naccess so we don't needed the i's networkability) So, what do you think in\nterms of color printers? Different brand? Kind (Dye Sublimation? Ink Jet?) \nPrice? Companies? 1800 #s? Also, we are looking to get a laser printer or\nsuch to network into the whole lab for noraml printing. The fornt runner is\nthe Apple Pro650 (is that right don't have my notes here?) at 1650. \nSuggestions? We have kids using these things all day if this lab goes through\nand they know nothing about it for the most part. It has to be reliable, easy\nto maintain, and economical (ie, not high priced paper cartidges, etc).\n\tFinally, and this is my little dig into the Project. What about netting\nthese things? We have ether nearby and I would like to slap the macs on the\nnet, but, server? Individual ether? Forget about it it is going to be\nastronomically priced and the school is going to laugh at you when you ask\nthem?\n\tLittle more info, I am a Poli Sci major who just happens to know alot\nabout macs but this is a bit out of my league, not to mention I don't have the\ntime to go and look for all of this stuff. So I am hoping the collective\nresources and intelect of the net can help (Has before) [Shameless plug: BUY\nEMPOWER!!! Great Security Program!!!]\n\tDisclaimer: This post is not and will never be supported by my\nUniversity. They do not condone in any way my using this media to illict info.\nThis is a proj by bio majors so they re the real persons.\n\tAnyinfo please send to the email above or to make it real clear\nrmwbb@wittenberg.edu And damn I hope my editor is alive when I get done typing\ns there is not another stupid blank post.\n\tI reserve the right to claim all this info as mine and use it to get\neverything I want form my Universities red taped administration. This info may\nbe used for blackmail purposes and for obtaining undo amounts of praise and god\nlike status. This info may also be used to get credits I probaly really don't\ndeserve.\n\tThat is the ned of it. Any questions? And thanks ahead of time!!\n\nOnce again taping the collective genius of the internet,", "I used to have a lot of line noise problems with my 1200 baud modem.\nWhat was sudgested to me was to put a toriod transformer on the line.\nThis is easily done by getting a large toroid core from your local\nelectronics shop, a toroid core is a ceramic/metal \"donut\", and wind the\ntelephone line in through the center of the core and out around the\nouTside five or six times. This is a easy and cheap fix that does not\nhave the hassels of having to use sofware to fix a hardware problem.", "I believe it goes or will go:\n680060\npowerPC\nPentium\n680040\n486\n680030\n386\n680020\n286=680000\n\nIn a resent article in one of the macMags I think a 50mHz 030 accelerator was\n slightly slower than a 25mHz 040 accel. But, this is using a system designed\n for the 030. So, It stands to reason that a system designed for an 040 ie\n quadra) would do better. So overall I'd figure 040 = 030 * 2.5 or so.\n Along the same lines the new POwerPC stuff is supposed to run the system\n at the level of a fast quadra, but system 8 or whatever will allow 3 times the\n speed of a 040 in the powerPC based systems. and wait for the 680060. I think\n it laps the pentium.\n\npro-life pro-women\n\n", "\n\nFrom a recent BYTE magazine i got the following:\n\n[Question and part of the answer deleted]\n\n If you are handy with a soldering iron, the loopback plugs are easy to\nmake. On a serial RS-232 nine-pin port, use a female DB-9 connector and\nconnect pins 1 to 7 to 8; 2 to 3; and 4 to 6 to 9. For serial RS-232 \n25-pin ports, you'll need a female DB-25 connector with pins 1 to 7;\n2 to 3; 4 to 5 to 8; 6 to 11 to 20 to 22; 15 to 17 to 23; and 18 to 25\nconnected. To test a Centronics 25-pin parallel port, you'll need to\nconnect pins 1 to 13; 2 to 15; 10 to 16; 11 to 17; and 12 to 14 in a male\nDB-25 connector.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t-Stan Wszola\n---\n\nI haven't tried it. Use at own risk.", "There is a program called Graphic Workshop you can FTP from\nwuarchive. The file is in the msdos/graphics directory and\nis called \"grfwk61t.zip.\" This program should od everthing\nyou need.\n\n-- ", "Anybody use CD Speedway out there? Is it as good as they say? I hate\nwaiting around for my CD to finish loading the next level in WC and the\nsuch.\n\nHow much memory does it eat up?\n", "Is there any program available (free or otherwise) for taking a tiff or gif\nor some other bitmapped file and turning it (or parts of it) into ascii\ncharacters?\n\n DOS, OS/2 or platform independent programs if possible.", "Hi,\nI'm having problems tying to get a Sony DAT drive to work. I'm using\nRetrospect 1.3Ci,\nand my only luck with getting the drive to work has been with a Mac IIci,\nwhich has\nnow unfortunately gone to another department.\n Ideally, we want to attach it to our Quadra 950 setup. I can't seem to\nget the\nRetrospect software to recognize the media at all. When in the \"Devices\"\ndialog,\nit can see the DAT device, but comes up with, firstly, 'Running', secondly\n'Media Failure' and then immediately 'Contents Unknown'. This does not\nhappen with the\nMac IIci setup, which simply says 'Ready'.\n I'm hoping someone else will have had similar problems but found some\nsolution... I \nknow some others who have had problems with DAT devices and their Quadra,\nbut they have\na Mac IIci which they can use!\n \nTHE SYMPTOMS\nSystem software is 7.1, also didn't\nwork with 7.0.1\n I have tried the following:\n Turn off all extensions, except Retrospect SCSI (required)\n Tested on a variety of machines: Quadra, IIsi, and LC (at least).\n Connected no other SCSI devices\n Tested all varieties of SCSI termination etc.\n Replaced the DAT unit with a new one (Yes! we got that desperate!)\n Read the Retrospect manual (EVEN MORE DESPERATE :))\n\nReplies via email would be greatly appreciated... thanks in advance. \nI'll post any\nsolutions to this group.\n\nCheers,\nMatt.\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------", "I'm looking to find some people interested in getting some cd-rom's. Below\nis a list with their prices. If you are interested in any of these, send me\nsome mail and I can guarantee this price. If you are not local their will be\na shipping cost, and cod cost if you prefer it to be shipped that way.\nMarcus\n\nUpdated prices from last post.\n\n \nAmerican Business Phonebook DOS $20.00\nAnimals DOS $30.00\nAnimals MPC $18.00\nAudoban Birds DOS $20.00\nAudoban Mammals DOS $20.00\nBarney Bear Goes to School DOS $30.00\nBible Library DOS $45.00\nBibles and Religion DOS $15.00\nBook of Lists DOS $30.00\nBritannicas Family Choice DOS $23.00\nBritamrica Select DOS $24.33\nBusiness & Economics DOS $19.00\nBusiness Backgrounds DOS $20.00\nBusiness Master DOS $20.00\nCarmen San Diego (Where is ...) MPC $22.00\nCD PLay/Launch DOS $25.00 \nCD ROM Software Jukebox DOS $20.00\nCIA Vorld Taur DOS $35.00\nChess Master 3000 MPC DOS $20.00\nCLassic Collection DOS $40.00\nCLipert Goliath \t DOS $15.00\nColossal Cookbook DOS $15.00\nDeLorme's Atlas USA WIN $25.00\nDesert Storm MPC $25.00\nDeathstar Arcade Battles DOS $15.00\nDictionaries & Language DOS $15.00\nEducation Master DOS $20.00\nELectronic Home Library DOS $35.00\nFamily Doctor DOS $16.00\nFamily Encyclopedia by Comptons DOS $49.00\nFamily Encyclopedia by Comptons MPC $49.00\nGame Master DOS $15.00\nGame Pack II DOS $25.00\nGolden Immortal DOS $25.00\nGreat Cities of the World DOS $25.00\nGreet Cities of the World MPC $30.00\nGreat Cities of the World II DOS $25.00 \nGreat Cities of the World II MPC $30.00\nGroliers Encyclopedia DOS $40.00\nGroliers Encyclopedia MPC $40.00\nGuiness Disc 1992 DOS $13.00\nHam Radio\t\t DOS $15.00\nInformation USA\t DOS\t $35.00\nIslands Designs\t\t \t DOS\t $20.00\nJets & Props DOS\t $18.00\nJones ... Fast Lane\t\t DOS/MPS\t $17.00\nKGB/CIA World Fact Book\t DOS\t $25.00\nKings Quest 5:\t DOS/MPC $20.00\nLibrary of the Future\t DOS\t $90.00\nLoom\t\t\t DOS\t $22.00\nMPC Wizard\t\t MPC\t $15.00\nMacMillan Kids Dictionary\t MPC $48.00\nMagazine Rack\t\t DOS\t $25.00\nMajestic Places\t\t DOS\t $20.00\nMavis Beacon Teaches Typing MPC\t $35.00\nMixed Up Mother Goose \t DOS/MPC\t $18.00\nMoney,Money,Money, DOS\t $20.00\nMonkey Island\t DOS $22.00\nOak CD Stand\t\t DOS\t $15.00\nOur Solar System\t\t DOS\t $15.00\nPresidents\t\t DOS\t $85.00\nPublish It v 3.0 DOS\t $20.00\nReference Library\t\t DOS\t $35.00\nSecret Weapons/Luftwaffe\t MPC\t $22.00\nShereware Games\t\t DOS\t $35.00\nShereware Overload\t\t DOS\t $15.00\nSher Holmes/Consul Det\t MPC\t $35.00\nSleeping Beauty\t\t DOS\t $20.00\nStrd. CD Software Bundle - 4 Titles N/A\t $90.00\nStellar 7\t\t\t DOS/MPC\t $17.00\nStory Time - Interactive DOS\t $14.00\nThe CD ROM Collection\t DOS\t $15.00\nTime Magazine Almanac Current DOS\t $22.00\nTime Table of Hist/Sci/Innovation\tDOS\t\t$25.00\nTons & Gigs\t\t\t\tDOS\t\t$49.00\nToo Many Typefonts\t\t\tDOS\t\t$15.00\nTotal Baseball\t\t\t\tDOS\t\t$30.00\nUS Atlas/w Automap\t\t\tDOS\t\t$22.00\nUS History\t\t\t\tDOS\t\t$28.00\nUS/World Atlas\t\t DOS/MPC\t $18.00\nUS Wars:Civil War\t\t\tDOS\t\t$25.00\nWild Places\t\t\t\tDOS\t\t$20.00\nWing Com/Ultima VI\t\t\tDOS/MPC\t $22.00\nWorld View\t\t\t\tDOS\t\t$25.00 \n\n\n@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@\nE-Mail mkbaird@david.wheaton.edu -- mkbaird%david.bitnet@uunet.uu.net -- \nVoice 708-752-8847 - Internet 192.138.89.15 -- mkbaird%david@uunet.uu.net ", "A friend of mine uses Windows 3.1 to do most of her work.\nUnfortunately, she has very bad eyesight, and we haven't\nbeen able to figure out how to change the default font\nused by the system and application menus, or the font used\nby the Help program (what use is hypertext if you can't\nread it?) to make it legible to her.\n\nIf anyone knows how to increase the size of these fonts,\nof any software package that makes Windows more accessible\nto visually handicapped people, please let me know.", "I'm trying to write some code that lets me draw lines and do rubber-band\nboxes in Motif/X. I'm running on an 8-bit display for which I've created a\ncolormap and am using almost all of the colors. I want to draw the lines\nin a drawing area widget -- a widget in which I'm displaying a bitmap using\nXPutImage(). If doesn't matter if the lines I draw interactively stay\naround when the window is refreshed.\n\nCurrently, to draw interactively, I begin with:\n\n /* drawIndex is an colortable index I reserve for the Foreground */\n /* my_default_bg_color is the color index for the background of my image */\n palette_colors[drawIndex].red = palette_colors[my_default_bg_color].red;\n palette_colors[drawIndex].green = palette_colors[my_default_bg_color].green;\n palette_colors[drawIndex].blue = palette_colors[my_default_bg_color].blue;\n XStoreColors( myDisplay, my_cmap, &palette_colors[DrawIndex], 1);\n XFlush( myDisplay);\n\n XSetFunction( myDisplay, gc, GXxor);\n XSetForeground( myDisplay, gc, drawIndex);\n\nThen to draw I do:\n\n XDrawLine( myDisplay, XtWindow( drawingArea1), gc, x1, y1, x2, y2);\n XFlush( myDisplay);\n\nAnd when I'm all done, to return things to normal I do:\n\n XSetFunction( myDisplay, gc, GXcopy);\n\n\nWhat I'd like to happen is for the lines I draw to be the inverse of\nwhatever I'm drawing over. Instead what happens is I get white lines. If\nthe lines are over a white background - nothing shows up. If the lines are\nover a black area - nothing shows up! It's very strange. But the GXxor\nfunction seems right - since if I do a rubber-banding box, it erases and\nredraws itself correctly (ie. not disturbing the underlying image).\n\nAny suggestions what I'm doing wrong?", "Web of Spiderman--Auction List\n\nISSUES #1-92, ANNUALS 1-7\n\nThis set will be auctioned as a complete set (if there is enough interest).\nThe books have been quickly evaluated for grade.\n\nAll books are VF+ to NM unless noted below (These were ascertained when putting\nthe books into new bags with boards (2 books per bag)):\n\n2-small dinks in spine; 4-spine slightly rolled; 5-2 small crease in front\ncover, dinks in spine; 13-slight tear-edge front cover; 14-spine dinged up;\n15-cover/pages crinkled from humidity; 19-crinkled form water damage; 21-cover\nnot flat; 22-shipping smudge on cover; 28-spine dinked up; 30-3 small dinks in\nspine; 33-spine dinks; 35-tiny crease top left corner of cover; 38-dinks in\nspine; 43-paper clip mark; 45- 2 small spine dinks; 47-slight spine roll, spine\ndinks; 52-back cover crease; 92-cover wrinkled; Annual 1-slight spine roll,\ncover marks\n\nCURRENT HIGH BID: 52.00 BIDDER: Jon (jon@tivoli...)\n\nThe successful bidder (assuming there is one) will have the books sent UPS,\nCOD-cash or money order. $6.50 will be added to the total successful bid to\ncover these charges, so bid accordingly.\n\nThanks", "(NOTE: The followups are set to comp.os.os2.misc. DMQS files describe\nmonitors and valid modes to be used by the XGA-2 under both Windows and\nOS/2.)\n\nTHESE FILES ARE UNSUPPORTED! IBM has nothing to do with these files or\nthis post. It's personal this time (and every time I post -- see the\nsignature).\n\nDue to demand and requests, here are some additional DMQS files I've\ncollected for the XGA-2. These files function with the latest revision\nof the drivers for the XGA-2. Not all these files will work under Windows\nwith the drivers available to the general public at this time. All files\nwill function under the most recent OS/2 2.1 beta and those I've tried have\nworked under OS/2 2.0+SP. Not all files have been fully tested.\n\nTHESE FILES ARE UNSUPPORTED! They represent a personal collection, not\nanything resembling an officially supported set.\n\nAs a standard disclaimer I would like to point out the following facts:\n1) Some of these files may run your adapter out of spec. Doing so can\n stress the ICs on the card and may result in incorrect operation or in\n shorter life (how short depends on how much out of spec [boom!] :-).\n2) Some of these files may run your adapter in a region that is out of\n spec for your monitor, resulting in damage to your monitor.\n3) You should be knowledgable about your monitor and adapter's ability\n to use the mode you select. Using these files represents hacking\n in a very true sense, so practice safe computing and don't play\n around too much if you don't like the risks and aren't knowledgable\n about what you're doing.\n4) If you feel uncomfortable with all the warnings, use the DMQS files\n you have or wait until IBM releases official, tested DMQS files.\n Although you should be aware of warning 2) even with the IBM files.\n\nTHESE FILES ARE UNSUPPORTED! By using them you may invalidate your\nwarrenty. Not all have been fully tested -- I don't have that many\nmonitors.\n\nInstallation: unpack in your DMQSPATH environment variable, usually\nc:\\xga$dmqs. Then use the methods described in your XGA-2 installation\ndiskette to change your adapter or settings.\n\nPacking: these files have been packed with the latest INFOZIP utility. \nYou will need PKZip 2.x if you don't have the INFOZIP utilities.\n\nSubmitting: feel free to send me uuencoded versions of your favorite DMQS\nfiles for your favorite monitors. I'm always interested in collecting more.\n\nArchive: these files have been uploaded to ftp-os2.nmsu.edu in\npub/uploads/xga2dmqs.zip.", "Usually, you apply\n\n[R] [ 1 0 1.402 ][Y]\n[G] = [ 1 -0.34414 -0.71414 ][U]\n[B] [ 1 1.772 0 ][V]\n\n\nafter unlevelshifting U and V (subtracting 128 from them).\n\nThis matrix multiplication may give results out of RGB space, so you\nhave to clamp the resulting bytes to [0..255].\nThe conversion should be done with arbitrary big integers, not floats :)\n\nThis applies to YUV data whereas NTSC may have YIQ where a 33 degree\nrotation to U/V is buid in.\n\n", "The subject says it all. I'm wondering if anyone on the net has\nhad any experiences with Cornell Computer Systems of California.\nI was checking out their ad in Computer Shopper, and they seem to\nhave a good balance between service, price, and hardware. The question\nis -- are they reliable?\n\nE-mail responses would be appreciated.", "I am looking for Ultima V for the IBM, I would like the entire package\n(meaning I need more than just the game, I would like the Docs also)\nSince it is an old game I do not want to pay a lot of money.\nIf you are interested in selling this game please respond to this message.\n", "\n\nWell, you can't say that it don't work. The inability to read 800k mac\ndisks is not a SW problem. Rather, it's a HARDWARE limmitation on PCs. ", "\n\tI have just checked it and you have three files that are loaded:\n\tPROTMAN : 128 Bytes\n\tDRIVER\t: 9072 Bytes\n\tWORKGRP\t: 4416 Bytes\n\n\tNo W4WG uses it's own drivers.\n\n\tNot that I know of, I bought two copies, had some problems with one\n\tinstalled both from the same copie, no problems. Do worry I just had\n\ta really old BIOS and that's the only problem I got.\n\tIt will replace all older files (I think) and prompt you for the\n\tothers.\n\n\tThis I do not know...\n\n\n\t\t\t\t\tHope this helps", "To use the grayscale features, I believe you need a Mac equipped\nwith colour quickdraw. I was told this somewhere or other, but it's\nnot mentioned in \"Apple Facts\" (guide for apple sellers), in the\npress release or in the technical specs.", "Is there a DOS screen capture utility -- PD or shareware -- that will\nwork reliably with VESA 6a 800x600 screens?", "This is for a friend of mine. Please send answers directly to him (E-Mail\nadress see below )!\n\n\nHIGHSPEED ANALOG-DIGITAL PC-BOARD\n\nHello LAdies and Gentleman !\n\nI am looking for a highspeed A/D PC-Board with a sampling rate above 250 MHz an a\nresolution of 8-bit. The sampling rate can be arranged by an interleave mode where\nthe time equivalent sampling yields 2, 4 or 8 times higher sampling rate than\nthe A/D-Converter uses in non interleave mode.\n\nThe board must content an A/D-Converter similar to Analog Devices AD 9028 or \nAD 9038 or if available a faster on.\n\nIf you a PC-Board (16-bit slot, ISA) with this specification or better, please\nsend me an EMail\n\nhansch@cdc2.ikph.uni-hannover.dbp.de\n\nor a Telefax to: ++49 / 511 / 7629353\n\n\nThanks in advance for your help !\n\nSincerely\n\n Matthias Hansch\n IKPH, University of Hannover, Germany\n\n\n\n---\n\nAndreas Heinbokel\n\nheinboke@tnt.uni-hannover.de", "Hi Fellows,\n\nI Still have got bunch of 386DX-25 Intel cpu and 387DX-25 Intel \ncoprocessors.\n\n Buy a SET for $79 + $5.00 for shipping.\n\nIndividually 80386DX-25 = $42 + $5.00 = $47.00\n and 80387DX-25 = $42 + $5.00 = $47.00\n\nIf interested, respond here or call 408/942-9690 Fax 408/942-9693\n", "\tI am unable to run Quicktime 1.5 on my IIvx running System 7.1, and\n\tI don't know why. (If there is a better group to post this to, please\n\tlet me know.) Quicktime 1.0 works fine, but when I try to run a movie\n\tin any application that supports it, Like Simple Player, Canvas or\n\tWord, I get the message \"sorry a system error occurred ''\n\tunimplemented trap \", I press and get\n\t\"The application 'unknown' has unexpectedly quit, because an error of\n\ttype 12 occurred.\" Substitute Simple Player or Canvas or Word for\n\t', and the messages are always the same. If I restart with\n\tQuicktime 1.0, I have no problems. Any suggestions? I am at a loss.\n\t\tThanks in advance. Oh yah, please email me as I don't check\n\t\tthe newsgroups very often.\n\t\t\tDan Bradley deb47099@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu\n\n", "I just donwloaded a *.bin file from a unix machine which is\nsupposed to be converted to a MAC format. Does anyone know \nwhat I need to do to this file to get it into any Dos, Mac\nor Unix readable format. Someone mentioned fetch on the unix\nmachine - is this correct? Could someone explain the .bin\nformat a little?\n\nThanks,\n\nElizabeth\n-- \n", "Paintball Gun for Sale\n\nTIPPMAN SL-68II (In Great Condition)\n\n11\" Micro-honed Barrel\nBarrel Squeegie\n16\" Barrel\n140 Round Sight Feeder with Elbow\n7 oz. Constant Air Tank with Valve Protector and Buttplate\nShoulder Strap\n3-7X Bushnell Sportview Scope\n40 Round Ammo Box with Flip Top Lid\nBarrel Plug\nInstruction Manual\nAllen Wrenches\n\nContact me at:\n\nzborowsk@spot.colorado.edu", "*** On 04-20-93 21:25, Larry Henson had the unmitigated gall to say this:\n\n LH> Hello, I am trying to hook an Apple Imagewriter to my IBM Clone.\n LH> I seem to have a problem configuring my lpt port to accept this. How\n LH> can you adjust baud, parity, etc. to fit the system? I tried MODE, but\n LH> it did not work. If anyone can help, post of e-mail. Thanx.\n\nLPT ports don't recognize baud, parity, etc. settings. You might be tring\nto connect a serial printer to a parallel port. Try this: attach the serial\nport of the printer to a serial port on the PC. Use the mode command to set\nthe COM port settings. Try\n\nC>MODE COM1,9600,N,8,1\n\nto set the port parameters. Then use the MODE command to redirect the\nprinter port LPT1 like this:\n\nC>MODE LPT1=COM1\n\nThis should work. Good luck!\n\n... Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.\n--- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10\n ", "\n\nIf you believe that, I have a nice piece for swamp for you for RE\ndevelopment. Microsoft does even its techpubs under Windows.\n\n\nThat wasn't Geo Works, was it? :-)\n\n\nNonsense. Sorry, I make fun of Windows all the time, but the above is\nsimply a myth. Tell that to Microsoft, Novell and others who dominate\nthe market.", "From 9150618 Thu Apr 29 16:36:43 1993\nDate: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 16:36:42 +1000\nFrom: 9150618 (Gavin Fairlamb)\nTo: 9130037\nStatus: R\n\n\nHello, folks...\n I am doing a uni. project and was wondering if you could\n supply with some specific info. or references for info. regarding\n \t\t1). Considerations for installation of XWindows in\n\t\ta HP 9000(unknown model)\n 2). Motif, OPENLOOK, XToolkit, Linux????\n 3). X11, X11R.... \n 4). Glossary of any term on X \n\tWe considering this software for the project which deals\n in image analysis...\n\n Any info. would be greatly appreciated.", "When using Photoshop is there anyway to get an elliptical dot for the\nhalftone screen rather than a round dot ? My printer would prefer an\nelliptical dot, but I'm not sure how to set it up. I'm sending from a Mac\nIIci to a Linotronic L300 imagesetter and I am using Photoshop 2.0.1 to\nmake my separations.\n\nAny help would be greatly appreshed. T.I.A. \n\nMichael (Unscene) \n\n\nMichael Maier, Computer Artist, ANL | [|Ú]---*Z* Glued to the veiw. ", "For Sale:\n\n\tComplete Amiga 1000 computer system\t$450 or best offer\n\n\tAmiga 1000\n\t512k RAM\n\t1 Internal, 1 External 3.5\" floppy diskette drive\n\tDetachable Keyboard\n\tTwo Button Mouse\n\tRGB Monitor", "well people, I can only recomend the non-flat-screen, no-hype, \nno-nonsense NEC 3DS that I have, and PLUS, it has the ADVANTAGE of\nNOT having one of those new flat screen tubes which are oversensitive\nand fragile and break often!\nthis is a 15'' heavy-duty rugged set for those who insist on well-proven\nreliable technologies!", "[Stuff deleted]\n\nWell, someone at Microsoft told you wrong. Windows will use a swap file\nlarger than the recommended size. Last summer I went to a Microsoft\nWindows 3.1 Technical Workshop and they distributed A LOT of information\nthat the general public might not be aware of. Anyway in the main book\nthey handed out they have a section on \"Creating larger than recommended\nswapfile\". I'll quote the information\n\n If you create a permanent swapfile larger than the recommended size, you\n will receive a message telling you that Windows will not use anything\n larger than the recommended size. THIS ERROR MESSAGE IS INCORRECT, we\n will allow the use of the larger swapfile, up to four times the amount\n of RAM on your machine.\n\nSo as you see, Microsoft does know that the information is incorrect. You\nprobably just ran into some doofball who was new on the job and was only\ntelling you what little he knew.\n\nBe that what it may, I would really suggest to everyone to take the\nopportunity to go to these Technical Workshops. They aren't actually\nincredibly in-depth, but you do get a lot of material about bugs and\noptimization straight from those in the know. Besides that they offer\nyou HUGE discounts on software. If I remember correctly, you could pick\nup Word 2.0, Excel 4.0, or whatever their presentation program is for $130.\nThat is the full blown version, not an upgrade or educational version. You\ncould also pick up Microsoft Office for $500 or something like that. Myself\nI sprang for Word.\n\nWell, hope that was helpful to someone. And besides that I hope someone\nwill go to a workshop and save a little money.\n\nAnd if anyone at Microsoft is reading this -- I really love your products.\nI need a job once I graduate also, can we work something out? ;-)", "\n Let me add another of my concerns: Yes, I can buy a port of Motif for \"cheap\",\nbut I cannot get the source for \"cheap\", hence I am limited to using whatever X\nlibraries the Motif port was compiled against (at least with older versions of\nMotif. I have been told that Motif 1.2 can be used with any X, but I have not\nseen it myself).\n\n Currently, I have X11R5 running on eight different unix platforms, of which\nonly three came with Motif. On those three, I am unable to use the X11R5\nlibraries to build Motif clients, because I get link errors between the\nvendor-supplied port of Motif and my X11R5. I anticipate having this same\nproblem when X11R6 becomes available.\n\n The result is that I cannot build Motif clients that rely on X11R5, since I do\nnot have Motif compiled under X11R5. True, I could buy another port of Motif,\nbut that sort of ruins the whole idea of \"free\", doesn't it?\n\n Cheers,\n\n Tom McConnell", "\nMaybe you need to go into \\mach32\\install and set a refresh rate for\n1280x1024. You might need to use custom monitor option.\n\nDan\n\n", ": While it's possible that it's a ham radio transmitter that you're\n: hearing, it isn't likely - every bit of signal that doesn't go out the\n: antenna is wasted, as far as a ham is concerned, and most hams are\n\nIt is the radiated signal that would cause the problem.\n\n: technically competent to ensure that they don't waste any signal if they\n: can possibly avoid it. To get their ham license, they had to pass a\n: government exam that tests them on that point, among others.\n: \n: However, you could be hearing a radio transmitter for sure - there are\n: lots of other services where the operators AREN'T required to be\n: technically competent - Citizens Band (\"CB\"), for example.\n\nThere is nothing in the Amateur Radio Tests that requires an technical\ncompetence at all. It is a simple matter to memorize all the questions\nand answers. However, that said, most Hams that I know do spend quite\na bit of time gaining some technical skill.\n\n: Listen to the interference. If you hear voices clearly, it almost\n: certainly ISN'T ham radio, and might well be CB. If you can record a\n\nDon't count on that.\n\n: bit of it, you could take the tape over to a local ham operator's house\n: and ask him for his opinion of what you're hearing. Most communities\n\nYou cannot do that legally. However, you can ask a ham over to listen.\nIf the interference occurs at a specific time each day, then it would\nbe possible to do such scheduling. If nothing else, you could invite\nthe ham over to transmit from your driveway, to see if he interferes.\nIf he does, then you probably need to have your equipment worked on to\nmake it immune to rf interference.\n\n: have a ham radio interference committee whose members are most willing\n: to help you resolve interference complaints. Look in the phone book, or\n: ask at the local ham radio store, or call the FCC for contact info.\n\nThe FCC may, or may not, have such information. They have enough to do\nwithout getting calls for such information. If nothing else, call your\ncity offices or police department (general business number). They should\nhave the name of a local ham contact.\n\n: If it's a ham, he's more than likely willing to help get rid of the\n: problem. After all, it would be his signal he's wasting. If it isn't,\n: the interference committee or the FCC may be able to suggest solutions.\n\nSee above - your concept of wasted signal is erroneous. If his rig is\ntransmitting properly, then the chance of interference (with the exception\nof harmonic television interference) is the greatest - since he is putting\nout the strongest signal.\n\n: It is unfortunately the case that a transmitting station that is\n: operating perfectly legally could possibly cause intereference to a\n: piece of consumer audio or TV equipment just because the manufacturer of\n: the consumer equipment cut corners on one little section of the device\n: that wouldn't affect one person in a thousand, but which bites you.\n: Often that can be remedied for just a few pennies by a knowledgeable\n: person, perhaps even the person operating the transmitter you're\n: hearing.\n\nUnfortunately, most consumer equipment is succeptable - it is all poorly\ndesigned.\n\n: (BTW: hams are ALLOWED amplifiers; CB isn't. \"illegal ham amplifier\"\n: doesn't compute.)\n\nIt does, but not for a mobile radio. There are very few mobile rigs that\ncould power a 1500 watt amplifier.", "Whatever equipment will work on a mac plus or a mac se will work fine on \na mac portable. It doesn't have a sound input, but there is equipment \nthat works fine with those models mentioned in macuser/macworld.\n", "\nI presume it is the M-8870 from Teltone Corporation.\n\nPin\tDescription\n\n1\t+ input\n2\t- input\n3\tGS (gain select through use of feed back resistor)\n4\tVref (reference voltage OUTPUT, about Vdd/2)\n5\tconnect to Vss\n6\tconnect to Vss\n7\tosc1 clock input\n8\tosc2 clock output (connect crystal across pins 7 and 8)\n9\tVss\n10\tOE output enable (logic high allows data output)\n11\tQ1 data output\n12\tQ2 data output\n13\tQ3 data output\n14\tQ4 data output\n15\tStD Delayed Steering Output (any other company would call this 'data valid'.)\n16\tESt Early Steering output, sort of like \"I'm starting to hear a tone\".\n17\tSt/GT Steering input/guard time output\n18\tVdd\n\nPower Supply\t: 4.75V min., 5.25V max.\nCurrent\t\t: 3.0mA Typ, 7.0mA max.\n\nBUT.......\n\nYou really should have bought the Motorola part from me. :-)\n(I still have them in stock)\n\nJohn\n\n", "Hi, \n\nthe subject says it all. Is there a PD viewer for gl files (for X)?\n\nThanks\n", "Hello,\n\nI saw this question posted a week or so ago, but as far as I could tell no\nanswer appeared on the net. What is the good oil on connecting the Apple\nExtended Keyboard to a PowerBook? The earlier questioner wonderd if this would\nbe too much of a load for the PB and as I want to connect just such a beast I\nam curious.\n\nI haven't got a PB yet so I can't RTFM but I assume that a standard keyboard\nwith a mouse would be ok as the spec sheet I read mentioned connecting an\nexternal keyboard. But is the Extended plus mouse pushing it?\n\nAny help gratefully recieved. I will summarise to the net if necessary.\n\nThanks, John Collins.", "\nI think it all depends on your motherboard and the cards you have in your system. Your HD stopped boot probably because your HD controller can't handle the faster BUS speed. I have a 486-33DX, I set my bus divider to CLK/2.5, that is close to 13MHz. I can gain singificant performace increase on my Video card and harddisk transfer rate when I boost the bus speed. And my system work flawlessly under this setting. And you know what, when I go to CLK/2(17MHz BUS), my HD refuse to boot. \n\nJust my 2 cent.", "Hi,\nI got a glimpse from the other side, talking to the technician at the\nplace I recently bought my Mac from. The guy told me that they stopped\nshipping SIMMs to their customers and only install them themselves -\nthose babies get zapped too easily by static electricity or so they\nclaim.\n\nHSK\n", "Are there any PDS expansion cards out there that specifically take\nadvantage of the LCIII's 32 bit data path and 25MHz clock speed? If\nthey exist, are they significantly faster than the LC/LCII versions?", "A rep at the dealer (actually it's a university order center, so\nthey don't have any immediate financial interest), told me that\nthey have been having lots of problems with their Centris 610.\nHe didn't go into details, but mentioned problems with the\nfloppy drive and intermittent problems with printing files.\nIt sounded to me like they were having both hardware problems\nand software compatibility problems with the machine.\n\nHe's not recommending the Centris 610 to anybody; he says to\nconsider a Centris 650 or a IIvx. (Why he would recommend a\nIIvx over an LCIII I don't know, but that's what he said.)\n\nSo, what does the net think? Did the dealer just get one flaky\nmachine, or did Apple send the C610 out the door too early?\nIs your C610 working just great, or is it buggy too?", "\nBubblejets often splatter a little bit, whereas LaserJets (given half-way decent\ntoner, like HP's \"Microfine\" stuff) don't. Both produce very good output,\nbut you don't have to look too closely at the two to tell that LaserJet\noutput is definitely superior. \n\nOn the other hand, LaserJets which haven't been maintained properly and use\nthe cheapest toner the owner could find often produce awful output, much\nworse than a bubblejet. :-)\n\nOne other thing... there are bubblejets, and then there are BubbleJets.\nThere are a few bubblejets out there that produce rather mediocre output\n(such as HP's dinky little BubbleJet), whereas most produce really good\nlooking output (such as HP's DeskJets). IBM and Canon both produce some of\nthe really good style bubblejets.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t---Joel Kolstad", "I know nothing about Sun's but replacing pieces of libraries, shared\nor not, is straight forward on RS/6000's (all releases). Extract the\nappropriate pierce with ar; rebind the .o; and replace with ar.\nSee Info for details.\n\n", "I'm planning on buying a joystick (first time since I sold\n\tmy Amiga five years ago :) for a PC. I have no idea what \n\tkind of stick I should buy. Many people have recommended \n\tvariety of Gravis'es models. Are they any good/the best?\n\n\t-- Willy", "FOR SALE:\n\nKenwood Audio/Visual Surround sound Receiver.\n* 1.5 yrs old, perfect condition, still under 5 year warranty.\n* 75 watts x 2 front + 5x2 watts rear surround. Dobly surround.\n* 3 video, 2 tape, 1 CD, 1 Phono input.\n* Full easy-touch button control for all functions\n* Bass/treble/balance/rear level knobs\n* Earphone input\n* Digital synthesized tuner with 20FM/10AM presets. \n* Full logic-remote control: with volume, mute, tuner and other controls.\n* Has three outlets in the back, can connect all your equipment and turn them\n on at the same time \n* Includes manuals, cables, and original packaging.\n\nA great addition for anyone starting out a home theater, or stereo system.\n\nOriginally purchased at $379, Asking $150.\n\nemail: jburgin@ralph.cs.haverford.edu\nphone: 215-645-5620", "Actually I am trying to write something like this but I encounter some\nproblems, amongst them:\n\n- drawing a 3d wireframe view of a quadric/quartic requires that you have\nthe explicit equation of the quadric/quartic (x, y, z functions of some\nparameters). How to convert the implicit equation used by PoV to an\nexplicit one? Is it mathematically always possible?", "\n\n\nBegging everyone's pardon, I was not slamming Motif, nor was I necessarily \nplugging/flaming the two. I was responding to the sweet blithe statement in:\n from rick@digibd.digibd.com (Rick Richardson)\n\nrick> This is one area where Microsoft NT has a big advantage. Since\nrick> they control the whole show, there are no issues like this where\nrick> licensees create incompatible defacto standards.\n\nThis happy statement shows a mindset that inventors and companies have when\nthey are pleased with something that works, and they believe that others will\nalso be happy to use it. I remember when _SunView_ was hot stuff (and am not,\nby that statement, endorsing Sun and its products, this is just my experience),\nand when OpenWindows became hot stuff, that was when I started hearing, as\nmentioned before, the \"socialistic masses\" that were bent on destroying \n_anything_ that was deemed proprietary, including OpenWindows. I mentioned\nMotif in the same breath, because that is what Sun has decided to turn its\nattention to, not because I hate it. Mr. Richardson's position, I believe, is\na healthy one, and I am sure that the seething hackers will soon try to\nflame and destroy NT, if it ever shows up, wanting instead everything to be\nfree, and then complaining when there is no organized structure and there are \nno de facto standards.\n\nIt was just a vent for frustration brought on by prevailing winds.", "************************************************************\n* For Sale - Jazz Compact Discs *\n************************************************************\n\nI have the following CDs for sale, they are all in mint condition\nand are fairly hard to find. They are all on the savoy label and\nput out by Dennon (Dennon bought the rights to Savoy and released\nthese disks)\n\nI would like to sell them all in one package deal but I will consider\nindividual orders.\n\nThese are the titles and artists:\n\nTelefunken Blues\t\tMilt Jackson, Kenny Clarke, Percy Heath\n\t\t\t\tFrank Morgan, Frank Wess, Walter Benton\n\nJazz Concert West Coast\t\tThe Bopland Boys\n\nOpus De Jazz VOl-2\t\tJohn Rae, Steve Kuhn, Bobby Jaspar, \n\t\t\t\tJake Hannah, John Neves\n\nPatterns of Jazz\t\tCecil Payne, Kenny Dorham, Duke Jordan, \n\t\t\t\tTommy Potter, Art Taylor\n\nPenthouse Serenade\t\tErroll Garner\n\nFootloose\t\t\tPaul Bley\n\nThe Imortal Lester Young \tLester Young, Count Basie\n\nGreat Britain's\t\t\tMarian McPartland, George Shearing\n\nHoward McGhee and Milt Jackson Self Titled\n\nI Just Love Jazz Piano\t\tHampton Hawes, John Mehegan, Herbie Nichols, \n\t\t\t\tPaul Smith\n\nArt Pepper & Sonny Reid\t\tSelf Titled\n\nOpus De Blues\t\t\tFrank Wess, Thad Jones, Curtis Fuller\n\t\t\t\tCharlie Fowlkes, Hank Jones,\n\t\t\t\tEddie Jones, Gus Johnson\n\nJazz is Busting out All Over\tToo many names to list \n\nOpus in Swing\t\t\tFrank Wess, Kenny Burrell\n\t\t\t\tFreddie Green, Eddie Jones, Kenny Clarke\n\nJackson's Ville\t\t\tMilt Jackson, Lucky Thompson, Hank Jones\n\t\t\t\tWendell Marshall, Kenny Clarke\n\n\nI will take any reasonable offer on the package of the 15 discs\nas well as offers on individual discs.\n\nPlease E-mail me with a response or call (807) 344-0010\n\nThanx\n\nDerek\n\n", "The multi-lingual archives at The Computing Research Labs, New Mexico\nState University will be moving to a new ftp address soon. The\narchives are being put under control of the Consortium for Lexical\nResearch.\n\nThe new ftp address will be: clr.nmsu.edu (the current IP address\nis 128.123.1.12 but may change, so use clr.nmsu.edu whenever\npossible).\n\nPlease note that there is a difference between ftp sites crl.nmsu.edu and\nclr.nmsu.edu. The crl.nmsu.edu site will be our ftp site for items\nnot related to the Consortium for Lexical Research.\n\nThe Arabic, Chinese, French, Italian, Indian, Japanese, Korean,\nTibetan, and Vietnamese archives will all be moved.\n\nWe will announce the new locations of the relevant directories once\nthe archives have been moved.\n\nPlease be patient if you discover directories missing when you ftp to\neither crl.nmsu.edu or clr.nmsu.edu. It will take a few days to move\neverything.\n\nIf you are not familiar with our multi-lingual archives, we have been\nslowly collecting various software, fonts, and text for different\nlanguages over the past 2 years. Most of the software is currently\nUnix oriented. We would also like to encourage people to continue to\ncontribute items to the archives to help improve the quality and\nquantity of multi-lingual tools.\n\nIf you have an item to contribute, please put it in:\n\nclr.nmsu.edu:incoming/\n\nand send a note to lexical@nmsu.edu telling them about your\ncontribution.\n\nIf you have any questions or comments, please send them to:\nlexical@nmsu.edu\n", "X Window installation on a Sun4/470 with CG6 alone and with CG2 as\nscreen:0.0 and CG6 as screen:0.1.\n\nQuestions:\n1) Are there any hardware configuration changes on the CG2 and/or\nCG6 devices that need to be made other than pulling out and inserting the\nCG2 frame buffer in the vme bus?\n\n2) The CG6 is called a 'graphics accelerator' as apposed to a 'frame buffer'.\nWhat is the significance of this to the X server and how do we install\nthe SunOS driver / X to be compatable.\n\n-----------------------\nI would appreciate any information on this. \nI am posting this on the behalf of Dr. John Charlton (who does not have net\naccess). Please reply to him directly at charlton@bme.unc.edu or just send\nit at this address and I will forward it. \n\nThank you for your help!", "Hi,\nI've got a PACE MODEM , Series Four 2400s ( made in England by\nPACE Micro Technology ) with a broken power supply .\nSo I'd like to know :\n\n- the voltage and current values of the original \n power supply PS1001.\n- the pinout of the power supply connector.\n- the pinout of the USER PORT and how to use it.\n\nMany thanks in advance to all the people help me.\nPlease post the reply also to my e-mail..........", "\n\nThere's a package called Workspace on cica that has 5 desktops; I\nhaven't done much with it yet, but it seems to be able to do what you\nwant it to.\n\nDon't have the exact archive name handy, but it's something like\nwspace.zip.\n\nTom\n\n-- \n finn@convex.com \t\t\t I speak only for myself.", "hi,\n Have you used Mac system 6.x or 7.x? If the answer is positive, you would\nknow if ms-windows is a \"mature\" OS.\n\n Days ago people doubted that ms-windows is not a real OS. I can see why\nthey have such question. Ms-windows confuses many people. Microsoft\nsimulated Mac, but it did a lousy job. For example:\n\n(1) You can not create hierarchy groups. There is no way to create a group\n in a group. (If you know how, please tell me.)\n(2) Too many system parameters to take care of. \n(3) uncomplete documentation. It's not easy to find the reason why causes\n an unpredictable error.\n(4) Group deleting/file deleting\n After deleting a group, users have to use file manager to delete files.\n But if users forget to delete some related files, the disk will be full\n of nonsense files.\n(5) share problem\n Once you create two windows doing compilation and editing in some\n language (w/o good editor), there will be a sharing problem. You just\n can not open or save the program if it is loaded. It makes sense to\n prevent from saving, but not opening.\n\nMicrosoft try to compromise between DOS and windows, but they just make \nms-windows a graphical DOS with capacity doing mutiple DOS jobs; \nthe worst thing is they complicate the environment. The orginal purpose\nof ms-windows should be to simplify the environment, and make PC easier \nto use.\n \n It's by no means easy to satisfy everybody, but if Microsoft want to\nkeep their reputations, they should evaluate the user interface more\ncarefully before products distribute.\n\n No flame, please.", ": >I was also sceptical about the amps being built in the far-east\n: > or where-ever. But if you look in the amp and see what components\n: > they use and how it was designed, you can easily see why the\n: > amplifiers sound so brilliant.\n\n: Good point...also, I wouldn't be surprised that the components\n: they use off-shore are of inferior quality. As long as it was\n: properly designed and robust, premium components are used, it\n: shouldn't matter where it is assembled.\n\nDefinately, I agree wholeheartedly. If they can build the amp where\n the labour is not so expensive, they can afford to put decent\n components in and go to more effort to improve the design of the\n amplifier - as Adcom has done.\n\n: >I cannot see why people say the amplifier won't last - not with\n: > those quality components inside. Sure the amp runs very fairly\n: > hot - but that's how you get an amp to sound incredibly good.\n\n: An amp that runs hot has no bearing on how it's gonna sound.\n: The amp you have probably is running Class-A the whole day.\n\n: Actually, I'd be wary of excessively hot amps, 'cauz even though\n: the components inside may be rated to run that way, excessive \n: heat will dramatically shorten the life of *any* electronic component\n: regardless of quality. In fact, an amp that does run hot to the touch is\n: because either the engineer or manufacturer of that amp wanted\n: to skimp on heatsinking or cooling to save costs! Hmmmmm....\n\nSure, I didn't mean to imply that because of the heat generated, the\n amp sounds good. My Adcom GFP 535II runs fairly warm - not hot to\n the touch - but enough to satisfy me that the amp is running nicely.\nI don't like it when an amp runs dead-cold. It makes one think that\n the amp is doing nothing :)\nThe heatsinks that Adcom uses in their amps are certainly far for\n skimpy - they're massive things with heating vents both below\n and above. More than enough to carry away excessive heat.\n\nMy opinions once again.\n", "Has anyone connected a high-res, fixed frequency monitor to their PC?\nI have a mitubishi monitor that does 1024x768 at 60hz, but won't do\nany other resolutions. All the video cards designed for this sort of\nthing are very expensive (>$400). Has anyone done it with an SVGA\ncard (I know it can be done, it's just a question of getting the card\nat the right resolution and frequency)? I'd like to use a mono\n(hercules) monitor as my dos/command line monitor, and switch to the\nmitsu for Windows or X-windows (under Linux or 3BSD).\n\nAny suggestions would be greatly appreciated. E-mail, please.\n\nThanks,\n", "The pricing of parts reminds me of something a chemist once said to me:\n\n\"A gram of this dye costs a dollar.\nIt comes out of a liter jar which also costs a dollar.\nAnd if you want a whole barrel of it, that also costs a dollar.\"\n\nI.e., they charge you almost exclusively for packaging it and delivering\nit to you -- the chemical itself (in that particular case) was a byproduct\nthat cost almost nothing intrinsically.\n", "\n\nYou didn't mention whether or not cost is an issue. Where\nexactly are you running 100MHz?? THe digital side? TTL?\nECL? We run 200MHz and 100MHz all over our IC test equipment \nall day long in the ECL domain, and we use DIP's along\nwith PLCC's, 25mil and 20mil pitch 256pin QFP's to name\na few. I don't see a problem in packaging as long\nas you adhere to sound engineering practices. \n\nA good source of information is Motorola's MECL System Design\nHandbook. The latest ed. is dated 2/88. That is considered\nto be one of the *bibles* in high-speed design.\n\nThe very fact that you need to build a test fixture means\nyou're most likely going to need a socket. It in itself\nhas far more inductance per pin than the package you are\ntesting, not to mention any impedance discontinuities. I\ndon't see the big concern over the packaging because it\nprobably isn't going to make that much difference\n\nIf you're trying to get TTL to run at 100MHz, have fun...\nTTL was never designed to run in a 100MHz environment.\n:-(\n\naaron", "To clarify: \n\nVC++ *is* considered an upgrade for C7. There will be no product\ncalled C 8.0 (although the command-line compiler of VC++ lists its\nversion as 8.00). C7 is not a \"DOS\"-only product -- it is a C/C++\ncompiler capable of producing executables for DOS or Windows, as is\nVC++ (Pro. Ed.). The (significant) difference is that VC++ comes with\nmany Windows-hosted tools (ide, etc) which assist developers in\ncreating Windows executables much more quickly (basically by\nautomating the thousands of lines of boilerplate code). Initial\nimpressions have been very favorable.\n\nEveryone who is a registered user of C7 should have received a\nconsiderable amount of info regarding the specifics of C7. If you\nhaven't, call Microsoft and I'm sure they'd be happy to send you some!", "The tech support line for GCC is 1-800-231-1570.", "HELLO,\nI HAVE A PROBLEM WITH MY WINDOW 3.1 PROGRAM \nSOMETIMES WHEN I SAVE SETTINGS OF PROGRAM MANAGER THE SYSTEM CORRUPT ONE OR MORE\n *.GRP FILES AND PROGMAN.EXE CAN'T OPEN IT ON NEXT START. \nTHANKS FOR ANY ANSWER.\nCHROBERT\n", "\nAmishware has one included in their package. They were advertising here on the\nnet a couple of weeks ago with a riduculously (That is in a good way, Ted!)\nlow price. Does anyone remember what it was ?\n", "I live up in British Columbia, Canada.The cable company I use is called\nRogers Cable. Does anyone know of their scrambling techniques, and ways of\ngetting\naround them? Any suggestions of what they might use?\n", "Laptop Connectivity Cards\n-------------------------\n\nPart #T2RN\nDesc: 3270 Remote Emulation Card for Toshiba Laptop Computer\n\nPart #T324M\nDesc: Easytalk 2400 bd dedicated internal modem with MNP level 5 for\n Toshiba T1200 & T1600\n\nPart #T2LL\nDesc: Easytalk internal ethernet card for toshiba laptop expansion slot.\n\nPart #T232\nDesc: Easytalk 3270 Terminal emulation for toshiba laptop expansion slot", "I tried to mail Peter Boucher, who posted the question, but my e-mail\nbounced, so, apologies to thsoe who are not interested.\nHave you read:\nBremner,A.,\nOn Trinomials of Type x$+n$-+Ax$+m$-+1.\nMath. Scand. 49(1981) pp. 145-155.\nZbl. 458.12012.\nMR 83k:12002.\n\nLjunggren,W.,\nOn the Irreducibility of Certain Trinomials and Quadrinomials.\nMath. Scand. 8(1960) pp. 65-70.\n.\n\nTverberg,H.,\nOn the Irreducibility of the Trinomials\nx$+n$-$mpm$$x$+m$-$mpm$$1.\nMath. Scand. 8(1960) pp. 121-126.\n\nTverberg,H.,\nOn Cubic Factors of Certain Trinomials.\nMath. Scand. 53(1983) pp. 178-184.\nZbl. 513.12003.", "If anyone has any information about the upcoming new computers\n(Cyclone and Tempest), I am in need of some info. Anything would be\ngreatly appreciated.\n\nThanks,", "\nFollowing up to my own article... I found that several people say that \nLAN Server clients can talk to WFW. Is this, then, also true for LAN\nManager? (Don't LAN Server and LAN Manager share common roots?)\n\n\nSomewhat less so now... :)\n", "I UPGRADED MY OLD 386 WITH 486DX-50 LOCAL BUS MOTHERBOARD TWO MONTH AGO \nAND WITH IT I BOUGHT A CONTROLLER CARD LOCAL BUS AND A GRAFIC CARD \nDIAMOND STEALTH VLB.\nBUT WHEN I TRY TO PUT MY NEW GRAFIC CARD AND MY NEW CONTROLLER TOGETHER\nMY SYSTEM DON'T WANT TO BOOT UP; IT STOP AFTER CONTROLLER CARD CHECKING. \nI HAVE TRY TO CHANGE MY AMI-BIOS SETUP BUT NOTHING WORKS. \nJUST ONE THING WHEN I DISABLE MY ROM-BIOS ADRESS ON MY CONTROLLER CARD\nMY SYSTEM DO ONE MORE STEP: CHECKING ALL SYSTEM AND CACHE MEMORY BUT NOTHING\nMORE.\nTHANKS FOR ANSWER.\nCHROBERT\n \n", "\nYes, I have both Arts & Letters and CorelDraw. I personally like\nArts & Letters better but there are things I like about Arts & Letters\nthat CorelDraw doesn't do an vice-versa. I haven't found the perfect\ngraphics program that does everything yet. \n\nMy favorite feature from CorelDraw is that it imports alot of different\nformats. Arts & Letters does not. I like the thousands of clipart\navailable with Arts & Letters. However, I do find looking them up\nin a book and referencing them by number to be annoying.\n\nOne of my major problems is that there isn't any programs available on\nthe market for the artistically deprived :-). ", "We're about ready to take a bold step into the 90s around here by accelerating\nour rather large collection of stock MacPlus computers. Yes indeed, difficult\nto comprehend why anyone would want to accelerate a MacPlus, but that's another\nstory. Suffuce it to say, we can get accelerators easier than new machines.\nHey, I don't make the rules...\n\nAnyway, on to the purpose of this post: I'm looking for info on MacPlus\nacelerators. So far, I've found some lit on the Novy Accelerator and the\nMicrMac MultiSpeed Accelartor. Both look acceptable, but I would like to hear\nfrom anyone who has tried these. Also, if someone would recommend another\naccelerator for the MacPlus, I'd like to hear about it.\n\nThanks for any time and effort you expend on this!", "Hi.\n\nI use Emacs and I want to customize my keyboard better.\nWhen I set up stuff in my .emacs with a keymap and define-keys,\nI can only access certain of the keys on my X-Terminal's\nkeyboard. I can't get e.g. F10, Home, End, PgUp, PgDn; they all\nseem to have either the same or no keycode. I have a feeling\nthis can't be fixed in emacs itself, but that I need to do some\nxmodmap stuff. Can someone help me?\n\nBy the way, I've checked the X-FAQ and posted a similar message\nto gnu.emacs.help to no response.\n\nCurrently I have the following in my .emacs file (inside a 'cond'):\n\n ((string-match \"^xterm\" (getenv \"TERM\"))\n;; done by aj 8/92. I don't know what most of this does...\n (defvar xterm-map (make-sparse-keymap) \"Keymap for xterm special keys\")\n (define-key esc-map \"[\" 'xterm-prefix)\n (fset 'xterm-prefix xterm-map)\n ;;Keys F1 to F12\n (define-key xterm-map \"224z\" 'goto-line) ;F1\n (define-key xterm-map \"225z\" 'what-line) ;F2\n (define-key xterm-map \"226z\" 'rmail) ;F3\n (define-key xterm-map \"227z\" 'replace-string) ;F4\n (define-key xterm-map \"228z\" 'end-of-line) ;F5\n (define-key xterm-map \"229z\" 'kill-line) ;F6\n (define-key xterm-map \"230z\" 'yank) ;F7\n (define-key xterm-map \"231z\" 'beginning-of-line);F8\n (define-key xterm-map \"232z\" 'end-of-line) ;F9\n (define-key xterm-map \"192z\" 'scroll-down) ;F11\n (define-key xterm-map \"193z\" 'scroll-up) ;F12\n ;;Keys F10, up, down, etc. ??????? can't get the keys \n (define-key xterm-map \"-1z\" 'set-mark-command))\n)\n\n", "\n ...\n\nBadWindow is an X protocol error. If you write a custom error handler\nwhich does not do \"exit(1);\" the error handler will return and let\nyour program carry on. So, using a XSetErrorHandler is the way to\ngo, but never mind the longjmp.\n\n", "I am looking for a VESA local bus Card.\nto control my IDE drives, Floppies, game port, parallel port, and most\nof all my serial ports. the serial ports must have sockets for the\nUARTs and non of this intergraded chipset that generic boards have on\nthem.\n ", "Hey all...I got an equation editor, and since it didn't automagically\nappear in my \"object\" dialog box (i.e. insert-->object-->equation), I\ndecided to manually place it there. So I went into win.ini (is there\nanother way to do this?), the [embedding] section, and added \n\nequation=equation,equation,,picture.\n\ndidn't work.\nquit windows, go back. AHA: mistake. Correct it. It looks fine.\nstart windows...doesn't work. play with it for a while, at one point\nhaving two entries to see if one works and th'other don't, and finally I\nget it to work. The only thing I can see that's different now is that\nit's now the first item on the list, and it used to be the last. But\nnow I end up with *three* \"equation\" entried, and *all* of them working.\n(and only one entry in win.ini).\n\nso does any netian know what's wrong? or rather, how to correct this?\n(i.e. make \"equation\"appear but once?).\n\nAlso, all the entries in the [embedding] appear as above.\nIt's obvious that is the executable, or whatever, and\n\"picture\" has something to do withthe way it appears\n(picture/description?)\n\nbut what are the others?\ni.e., in\n\nsoundrec=sound,sound,\nwhate's the difference between the 1st \"sound\" and the 2nd? \nand what is \"soundrec\"?? (I don't think it's the name of the executable,\nas other entries (e.g. MSWorksChart=...) aren't)\n\nthanks, i.a.\nMickey", "I don't have nor Imagine nor Real 3d, but as old\nAmiga user I think you should take a look also to \nReal 3d 2.0 for the Amiga. I saw Imagine 2.0 on the\nAmiga for a long time at my friend's home, and\nI've seen R3D 2.0 in action at Bit.Movie 93 in Riccione,\nItaly (an Italian Computer Graphics Contest).\nMany professionals using 3d Studio on PC, SoftImage\nfor Silicon Graphics and Imagine on the Amiga were \n*VERY IMPRESSED* by the power of this programs.\nSorry, I've lost the posting with full description \nof features of this great program.\n\nFor more informations give a look in comp.sys.amiga.graphics.\n\nRepresentative of Activa International told me that\nit will be out in 2 weeks for the Amiga and that\nPC MS-Windows, Silicon Indigo and Unix version are \nunder development.\n\nCiao,\n\tSergio\n\n\n\n", "\n\nThere are two approaches:\n\n1. If your power cord is the kind that detaches from the back of the\nmonitor (most common) you can get a *replacement* power cord that will go\nfrom the monitor to the back of the computer.\n\n2. You can get an adpater that connects to the plug end of the existing\npower cord and provides the proper end that plugs into the back of the\ncomputer.", "Hello,\n\nI am looking for a Xterm emulator which runs under windows 3.1.\n\nPlease reply via E-mail.\n\nThanks.\n\nChera Bekker", "[ Article crossposted from comp.windows.ms ]\n[ Author was Kevin Routh ]\n[ Posted on 19 Apr 1993 12:35:55 GMT ]\n\nFor your information:\n\nI hooked up my ImageWriter I to my COM1 serial port and used the C-Itoh\n8510 driver in Windows 3.1. The cable I am using is a straight-thru\ncable connected to a Null Modem Adapter I got at Radio Shack (catalog\n#26-1496a) for $4.95. It seems to work fine with both DOS and Windows.\nI used the following command in DOS\n\n\tC:\\DOS\\mode COM1:9600,n,8,1,p\n\nand set up the port the same way in the Windows Ports setup.\n\nthe Null Modem connections are as follows:\n\n\t1\tto\t1\n\t2\tto\t3\n\t3\tto\t2\n\t4\tto\t5\n\t5\tto\t4\n\t6+8\tto\t20\n\t20\tto\t6+8\n\t7\tto\t7\n\nI printed from several applications and all seems OK. \n\n-- \nKevin C. Routh Internet: krouth@slee01.srl.ford.com\nFord Electronics IBMmail (PROFS): USFMCTMF\nELD IC Engineering\n17000 Rotunda Drive, B-121 Voice mail: (313) 337-5136\nDearborn, MI 48121-6010 Facsimile: (313) 248-6244\n\n\n\n--\nKevin C. Routh Internet: krouth@slee01.srl.ford.com\nFord Electronics IBMmail (PROFS): USFMCTMF\nELD IC Engineering\n17000 Rotunda Drive, B-121 Voice mail: (313) 337-5136\nDearborn, MI 48121-6010 Facsimile: (313) 248-6244\n\n", "\nI have been following this thread and figured I'd throw in my two cents...\n\nThe Amiga Zorro II bus is comparable with the ISA bus (7.16 vs 8.33 MHZ).\nThe Amiga has had a pre-emptative multi-tasking OS since '85 and can\noperate with 1 MB RAM! SCSI is used almost exclusively on these systems.\n\nA SCSI controller that transfers data by DMA allows the cpu to request data\nfrom the hard drive and continue working while the controller gets the data\nand moves it to memory. A controller that allows reselection can operate\neven better with multiple devices. This is espically true with SCSI tape\nunits. For example, when rewinding or formatting a tape, the command is\nissued to the controller and the bus is released to allow access to other\ndevices on the bus. This greatly increases productivity or, at least, do\nsomething else while backing up your hard drive :-). Which happens to be\nwhat I am doing while reading this group.\n\nIts a long story, but I still use IDE on my 486 except for the CDROM which,\nthanks to SCSI, I can move between both machines. If, and when, SCSI is\nbetter standardized and supported on the ibm-clone machines, I plan to\ncompletely get rid of IDE.\n--\n Wayne Summer // AMIGA - Simply the Best.\n Palm Bay, FL. US \\X/ wayne@amtower.spacecoast.org", "==============================================================================\nBear with me i'm new at this game, but could anyone explain exactly what DMORF\ndoes, does it simply fade one bitmap into another or does it re shape one bitma\np into another. Please excuse my ignorance, i' not even sure if i've posted thi\ns message correctly.\n", "\n\n\nI once wrote such a program (in BBC basic...) It was very crude, and took\naround 5 seconds to do an exhaustive search (with a small amount of \nintelligence), and told you the best combination >Rq and the best below Rq.\n\nIf you want to write one, just store the prefered values in an array, and\nthen search the solution space using three nested loops. I'm sure you\ncould knock this up in an hour.\n\nChristopher", "Looking for a VIDEO in and OUT Video card for the IBM. One that will\nallow you to watch TV (coax) or video IN, and will do Video out,\ndigitize pictures. and if I am in Windows, and would like to be able to\nlook the RCA out for the card to my TV and have it display on there, as\nwell as DOS apps.\n\nI heard of these SNES and Genesis copiers, that will copy any games, are\nthose for real?\n ", "Archie told me the following sites holding documentation about DXF:\n\nHost nic.funet.fi (128.214.6.100)\nLast updated 15:11 7 Apr 1993\n\n Location: /pub/csc/graphics/format\n FILE rwxrwxr-- 95442 Dec 4 1991 dxf.doc\n\nHost rainbow.cse.nau.edu (134.114.64.24)\nLast updated 17:09 1 Jun 1992\n\n Location: /graphics/formats\n FILE rw-r--r-- 95442 Mar 23 23:31 dxf.doc\n\nHost ftp.waseda.ac.jp (133.9.1.32)\nLast updated 00:47 5 Apr 1993\n\n Location: /pub/data/graphic\n FILE rw-r--r-- 39753 Nov 18 1991 dxf.doc.Z\n", "\nI have been using the JOIN command for many years now, mostly with good\nsuccess in duplicating unix-style file mounts. You will hear lots of\npeople cursing JOIN because they confuse it with the dos APPEND command\n(a truely gnarly hack), but don't believe them. You also will hear\npeople saying that Microsoft recommends that you not use JOIN. But, in\nMicrosoft's Windows 4 Workgroups Resource toolkit, the following appears:\n\n \"JOIN, an MS-DOS utility, works fine with Windows for Workgroups 3.1 if\n you do not change the state of the joined drives during a Windows for\n Workgroups 3.1 session. This includes adding or removing joined drives\n from within Windows for Workgroups. We recommend that you do not use\n JOIN when running Windows Setup or Windows for Workgroups 3.1.\"\n\nWithin this caveat, JOIN appears to be valid under windows. However, I\nhave found a couple of applications that don't deal well with filesystems\nthat have been \"mounted\" using join.\n\nIn particular, the worst offender is Word for Windows 2.0x. It gets very\nconfused when you edit and then try to save a file on a joined drive. It\nwants to create the saved file as ~NNNNN.tmp in the current dir, then\ndelete the old file and rename the ~NNNNN.tmp file to the *.doc file.\n\nUnfortunately, WfW usually writes the ~NNNNN.tmp file in some idiotic\nplace other than the current directory (often in the root dir of the\njoined filesystem, but not always). Then, after deleting the original\n*.doc file, it can't find the ~NNNNN.tmp file to rename it. Unless you\nsearch your disk systems, the document is gone.\n\nI have also found subtle problems using the MKS toolkit from a DOS box\nwhen JOINed filesystems are present. I used to join c:\\temp with a 4meg\nramdisk, but MKS sometimes gets confused when doing an \"ls\" on the c:\\temp\ndir, and misses some files in the temp dir. (This is difficult to \nreproduce, but it goes away totally when JOIN is not used.) I think\nthis is a Windows problem, rather than MKS's, since it works OK under raw\nDOS.\n\nSo, I would suggest that you can use JOIN, but be aware that it may not\nbe as robust you would like.\n\nWouldn't it be real great to \"mount\" network drives (i.e. Z:) under the main\nfile tree, rather than having all those darned drive letters? Unfortunately,\nJOIN won't let you do it. There was talk on the net about a simple patch\nto let JOIN work on network drives, but I don't remember the source.\n\nIt's too bad the JOIN command is not better implemented, since it would\navoid using all those stupid drive letters. I realize that MessDos was\nmeant for casual, even ignorant users, so \"mounting\" all the drives in\none file tree might be confusing. But, it looks like MS is going to carry\nthis over into windows NT (another OS meant for casual, even igorant \nusers -- NOT!). With all it's old family system baggage, maybe MS needs\na recovery group so they can get on with life :-(.\n", "I once had this problem. All I did was to copy the whole doc to a new file. The problem \nwas gone. Hope this helps.", " ^^^^^\n My understanding was that Chicago **was** DOS 7.", "Hello,\n\n\tWho can tell me Where can I find the PD or ShareWare \nWhich can CAPTURE windows 3.1's output of printer mananger?\n\n\tI want to capture the output of HP Laser Jet III.\n\n\tThough the PostScript can setup to print to file,but HP can't.\n\n\tI try DOS's redirect program,but they can't work in Windows 3.1\n\n\t\tThankx for any help....\n\n--\n Internet Address: u7911093@cc.nctu.edu.tw\n\n English Name: Erik Wang\n Chinese Name: Wang Jyh-Shyang", ": > \n: > : And the measure of current, Amp, is actually named after both the AMP company\n: > : and the Amphenol company. Both companies revolutionized electronics by\n: > : simulatenously realizing that the performance of connectors and sockets \n: > : were affected by the amount of current running through the wires.\n: > \n: > Sorry. The unit for current is the AMPERE which is the name of a french-man\n: > named AMPERE who studied electrical current. The term AMP is just an abbreviation\n: > of it. The company AMP came after the AMPERE unit was already in use.\n: > \n: > : The Ohmite company was the first to characterize resistances by numbers, thus\n: > : our use of the Ohms...\n: > \n: > I don't know about this one, but it doesn't sound right.\n: Are you (two) joking?\n: Is the entire Internet flaming you (two)?\n: Ahh!, now I remember that Ohmite company was the first introducing \"the pink\n: colored resistor\", only for electronics working females ;-)\n: -- \n: Manuel Arrevola Velasco ||||| True e-mail: manolo@taf.fundesco.es |||||\n: DoD #1033\n: \nYes, I have taken a bit of flame on this one. I must've been half asleep when\nI posted a response to Joseph.\n\nGreggo.", "Hey,\n\ncollection. I am interested in buying any in good condition. I am \nparticularly interested in any of the older, exotic models (eg five ] \ntransformers into one etc... I am looking at paying around $20-$40 depending\nupon the model, size and original cost etc. I will also pay airmail postage\nand packing. I am also happy to buy any old sci-fi related toys eg robots,\nrocketships, micronauts etc... There is only one catch. I live in New\nZealand so you have to be willing to post the items there. I hop that\nsomeone can help me out. \n\n\nCheers", "Has anyone experienced a faint shadow at all resolutions using this\ncard. Is only in Windows. I have replaced card and am waiting on \nlatest drivers. Also have experienced General Protection Fault Errors\nin WSPDPSF.DRV on Winword Tools Option menu and in WINFAX setup.\nI had a ATI Ultra but was getting Genral Protection Fault errors\nin an SPSS application. These card manufactures must have terrible\nquality control to let products on the market with so many bugs.\nWhat a hassle. Running on Gateway 2000 DX2/50.\nThx Dave L\n\n \n", "*** On 04-19-93 04:09, John Bongiovanni had the unmitigated gall to say this:\n\n >>Suddenly, the date no longer rolls over. The time is (reasonably) accurate\n >>allways, but we have to change the date by hand every morning. This involves\n >>exiting the menu system to get to DOS.\n \n JB> Did I once hear that in order for the date to advance, something, like\n JB> a clock, *has* to make a Get Date system call? Apparently, the clock\n JB> hardware interrupt and BIOS don't do this (date advance)\n JB> automatically. The Get Date call notices that a \"midnight reset\" flag\n JB> has been set, and then then advances the date.\n\nWhen a program uses a DOS call to get the system, it resets the flag that\ntells the BIOS that it has passed midnight. It then uses this flag to\nincrement the date. If the menu does a call to the system to get the time\nbefore midnight, before the BIOS sees the midnight flag, then BIOS will not\nknow that the day passed and the date will not get updated.\n\nI might have some DOS's and BIOS's mixed up (darned cold messed up my\nbrains) but this has been a well documented problem for years. I don't know\nof a workaround. Hope this helps!\n\n... Two most common elements in the universe: Hydrogen & Stupidity.\n--- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10\n ", "After reading reports from Germany of success in accelerating a Quadra\nor Centris simply by changing the clock oscillator, I decided to test the\nclaim. I pulled out my Variable Speed Overdrive and the motherboard's\n50 mhz clock chip. I put a socket in the clock's place and inserted a\n64 mhz TTL clock oscillator I had left over from working on some SI's.\nI can't believe it. It actually works. I'm not getting SCSI timing errors\neither. This is only after a short run time but I'll keep posting results.\nDid I spend all that money on the VSO for nothing? If this keeps working,\nthe lack of a double boot in itself will be worth the effort.", "I have a Colorado Memory Systems Jumbo 250 tape backup unit in my Gateway\n486/33V Tower system. I have found the supplied backup capability to be \nfairly unreliable. In approx 3 cases out of 10, I have had the backup fail\nat one point or another, often hanging in the middle of writing the tape.\nSeek errors, drive communication errors seem to be most common. I use the\nDOS backup software from Colorado Memory Systems. Should I return the drive,\nget some better backup software, reformat the tapes (am using CMS tapes)?\nAny hints would be appreciated - this stuff is to time-consuming to do over\nand over again until it cooperates...", "I have been trying to compile some source code for a mpeg animation viewer for\nX Windows. I got the code from a ftp site. I have modified the Makefile as\nthey instructed, no errors there. What happens is that I get the following\nmessage when everything is going to be linked:\n\n\n\tcc util.o video.o parseblock.o motionvector.o decoders.o fs2.o fs2fast.o fs4.o hybrid.o hybriderr.o 2x2.o gdith.o gray.o mono.o main.o jrevdct.o 24bit.o util32.o ordered.o ordered2.o mb_ordered.o /lib/libX11.so /lib/libXext.so -lm -o mpeg_play\nUndefined\t\t\tfirst referenced\n symbol \t\t\t in file\ngetnetpath /lib/libX11.so\nt_alloc /lib/libX11.so\nt_unbind /lib/libX11.so\nt_open /lib/libX11.so\nt_rcvdis /lib/libX11.so\nnetdir_free /lib/libX11.so\nt_error /lib/libX11.so\nnetdir_getbyname /lib/libX11.so\ngetnetconfigent /lib/libX11.so\nt_look /lib/libX11.so\nt_errno /lib/libX11.so\nt_close /lib/libX11.so\nnetdir_getbyaddr /lib/libX11.so\nt_listen /lib/libX11.so\nt_rcv /lib/libX11.so\nsetnetpath /lib/libX11.so\nt_bind /lib/libX11.so\nt_connect /lib/libX11.so\nt_accept /lib/libX11.so\nnc_perror /lib/libX11.so\ninet_addr /lib/libX11.so\nld: mpeg_play: fatal error: Symbol referencing errors. No output written to mpeg_play\n*** Error code 1 (bu21)\n\nmake: fatal error.\n\nDoes anyone know where these missing functions are located? If you do can you\nhelp me with it?\n\nI posted before to one of the other Unix groups, I tried their suggestions but\nalways get this error.\n\nIf you have to know: I am using Unix system V. The machines here are 486's. The\nterminals I want to use are separate and just called X-terminals and they seem\ndedicated to that. I'm not sure as to what they really are, since it is one of\nmy first times out with this X-windows gidget! That is, first time programming\nfor it, so to speak. I use them alot just for the graphics things.\n\nIf you can help, mail me soon.", "Be very careful when you plug in a external monitor and a external speaker.\nMake sure that all the power cords are in the same strip. If you don't you\ntake a chance of having a very bad audio buzz. This is caused be a \"ground loop\" and the only way of getting rid of this loud buzz is to make sure that you \nhave a common ground. \nMake sure that all the power cords are going in to the same strip or off the \nsame outlet. This will assure you of a common ground.", "Hi,\n\nI bought, on the net here, a mini-tower 386dx25 system. It works fine, but\nI have no docs on the motherboard.\n\nDoes anyone know who a manufacturer named WPI is? That is the only marking\non the board that is not related to a chip/connector name. It says\n(c)1991, WPI\n\nAlso, this board has a connector at the other end of the motherboard, it looks\nlike this:\n\n\n +---------------------------------+\n | Batt |\n | 387 | Socket for 387 math coprocessor\n | |\n | 386 | 386 chip is about here\n | |\n | ========= ==== J | = signs are the ISA slots\n | ========= ==== M |\n | ========= P | Jumpers for turbo/kb etc are where\n | ========= ==== ------ E | marked\n | ========= ==== ------ R |\n | ========= ==== ------ S | - signs are 8 banks of SIMM sockets\n | ========= ==== |\n | ========= ==== ======= | << \tYes, that's known as \"Bresenhams Run Length Slice Algorithm for\nGraeme> Incremental lines\". See Fundamental Algorithms for Computer Graphics,\nGraeme> Springer-Verlag, Berlin Heidelberg 1985.\n\n\nGraeme> \tHmm. I don't think I can help you with this, but you might\nGraeme> take a look at the following:\n\nGraeme> \t\"Double-Step Incremental Generation of Lines and Circles\",\nGraeme> X. Wu and J. G. Rokne, Computer Graphics and Image processing,\nGraeme> Vol 37, No. 4, Mar. 1987, pp. 331-334\n\nGraeme> \t\"Double-Step Generation of Ellipses\", X. Wu and J. G. Rokne,\nGraeme> IEEE Computer Graphics & Applications, May 1989, pp. 56-69\n\nAnother paper you might want to consider is:\n\n@article{fungdraw,\n title=\"A Run-Length Slice Line Drawing Algorithm without Division Operations\",\n author=\"Khun Yee Fung and Tina M. Nicholl and A. K. Dewdney\",\n journal=\"Computer Graphics Forum\",\n year=1992,\n volume=11,\n number=3,\n pages=\"C-267--C-277\"\n}\n\nKhun Yee", "\nA 3DO marketing rep. recently offered a Phillips marketing rep. a $100\nbet that 3DO would have boxes on the market on schedule. The Phillips\nrep. declined the bet, probably because he knew that 3DO players are\nalready in pre-production manufacturing runs, 6 months before the\ncommercial release date.\n\nBy the time of commercial release, there will be other manufacturers of\n3DO players announced and possibly already tooling up production. Chip\nsets will be in full production. The number of software companies\ndesigning titles for the box will be over 300.\n\nHow do I know this? I was at a bar down the road from 3DO headquarters\nlast week. Some folks were bullshitting a little too loudly about\ncompany business.\n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^", "I was wondering if anyone knows of a graphics package for the PC that\nwill do compositing of a series of pictures?\n\nWhat I mean by \"compositing\" is, say I have a live video clip\n(digitized) panning around a living room, and a computer-generated\nbird flying around the screen. I want to combine these two series of\npictures so that everywhere where the bird frames are black, I want\nthe living room picture to show through. Yes, I realize I can do this\nwith a genlock, and I do own a genlock, but I want to be able to do\nmanual compositing also. It's ok if I have to composite one frame at\na time; I assumed I'd have to do that anyway. But being able to\ncomposite a series of frames would be even better.", "\nWhy is that terrible ? That's exactly the way our code has been doing\nit for two years now and is the way that temporary files in UNIX systems\nare managed most of the time (open, unlink).\n\n\t\tBurkhard Neidecker-Lutz", "Hello, \n\nI have a BC200XLT handheld radio scanner which recieves police, fire,\nambulance, aircraft, cordless and cellular phone, etc. The unit is in\noriginal condition and comes with the manual, the power supply and\nbattery charger. Price is $200 plus s/h.\n\n\nAustin Harris", "\nScott,\n\tI'm not so sure if this is helpful, but I usually use XV v2.21. I use Sun IPCs and IPXs, and it works fine. It can display in a good number of ways.(root being one of them) It's also possible to have XV put up a background automatically at login. Hope this helps.\n\nJason Weiler\n", "I have the following problem on a Dell 450SE with the ATI Graphics Ultra Pro \nEISA:\n\nWhen I start Windows, the first 5 times I try to run an application, it does\nnot start. Windows will show the following error message:\n\n Error Executing application. There is not enough memory to run the \n application.\n\nAfter the first 5 tries, the application I want to run will start, and \nafterwards there are no more problems. When I change the Video driver from \nMach 32 to 8514/a, this problem does not occur, so I suspect the ATI \ndrivers (I tried both the build 55 and build 59 driver).\n\nDoes anyone have a clue?\n", "\n\nI think this to be inaccurate. One can buy TEMPEST equipment commercially.\nEven Macs.\n\nDavid", "Does anyone know who makes a cable or adapter that is wired according to\nApple's specs that forces the external output on LC's and the Powerbook's\n160/180 and Duo 230 into a true VGA style output signal? The NEC Adapter does\nnot do this since their monitors are multisync they just route the signal into\nthe correct pinout but do not switch the Macs output into VGA mode.\n\nDo I have to make one of these or does someone already have one made-up??\n\nThe following is the Apple spec for the LC cpu VGA Cable adapter. I'm assuming\nthat the Powerbooks/Duos will work with the same adapter(?);\n\n\nMacintosh LC to VGA\n \nThe Macintosh LC can supply a 640 x 480, VGA timed signal for use with VGA\nmonitors by using an adapter cable. The standard Macintosh LC supports VGA to\n16 colors, and with the optional 512K VRAM SIMM, the VGA monitor is supported\nto 256 colors.\n \nNote: The Macintosh LC supplies signals capable of driving TTL level\n inputs. However, some low impedance input VGA monitors do not work\n with the Macintosh LC.\n \nTo connect a Macintosh LC to a VGA monitor, you need to make an adapter cable\nfrom the Macintosh LC video connector to the VGA monitor. Following is the\npinout description for the adapter cable:\n \nMacintosh LC VGA\nVideo Connector Pin Signal Name\n--------------- ---- -----------\n1 6 Red ground\n2 1 Red video signal\n5 2 Green video signal\n6 7 Green ground\n9 3 Blue video signal\n13 8 Blue ground\n15 13 /HSYNC\n12 14 /VSYNC\n14 10 HSYNC ground\n7,10 nc SENSE1 & SENSE2 tied together\n \nVGA monitors are identified by shorting pin 7 to pin 10 on the Macintosh LC\nvideo connector. The Macintosh LC grounds pin 7 on its video connector, which\nresults in pulling down pin 10 and gives the correct monitor ID for a VGA\nmonitor.", "I have had a Zeos for a couple months. While the experience was not\npainless or perfect, it was way better than that endured by most (7\npeople I personally know) who have ordered Gateways. (Of course,\nseveral of the Gateway buyers were rewarded by getting free stuff as\nGateway can't seem to keep track of what it has or hasn't sent\nout...B{) \n\nI got the 1 MB Viper card. The first one was defective, but Zeos\nreplaced it with only minor hassles. This one works fine. I haven't\nnoticed any problems in any of my applications. I also ordered it\nbecause of all the complaints about the ATI a few months ago. Guess\nyou can choose either buggy state-of-the-art stuff, or robust average\nstuff.... \n\nFor my particular configuration (tower, 300 watt supply, pkg#3, no\nmonitor, viper, etc.) the Zeos was slightly cheaper than Gateway,\nAustin, etc. But this can change from month to month.", "Just wondering if anyone had info/experience with a video/fpu for a mac LC,\njust thinking of adding a second monitor, most likely grayscale.\n", "For a SIZE 9 wedding dress with lots of beads,\ninquire at 801-269-1157 MST (Utah).", "Many thanks to those who replied to my appeal for info on a drive I have\nwhich is 3.5\" 600RPM!!\n\nI now have some information on how to modify this for use with a BBC B \ncomputer. Not only do you have to change the speed from 600 to 300 rpm\n(tried that) but also change 8 components in the Rec/Play section to allow\nfor the lower data rate (250kbit, not 500kbit as it was designed for) and also\nchange the Recording Current to allow for the low data rate/rev speed!\n\nHopefully this should sort it all out .... not bad for 9 quid (normally 32 \nquid and upwards ....)\n\nThe drive is a JVC MDP series drive ...", "Hi\n\nI am looking for Image Analysis software running in DOS or Windows. I'd like \nto be able to analyze TIFF or similar files to generate histograms of \npatterns, etc. \n\nAny help would be appreciated!\n\n__________________________________________________________________________", "IRWIN suggests the use of pre-formatted tapes for their tape drives, as\nyou often can't successfully format a tape and need bulk-erase it before\nyou can format it again. Anyway, I have some new, preformatted tapes for\nIRWIN 250 tape drives. \nIRWIN accuTRAK series 120-250MB, $16/ea. New never used.\n3M DC2120, RHOMAT Format. $16/ea. Wraped.\n\nEmail if interested.\n\nFeng", "********************* NEW PRICE ***********\n\n\tI have an extra copy of Lotus 1-2-3 ver 3.4 for DOS. this package was\noriginally $600. I'd like to get $75 for it. please reply by e-mail to\njth@bach.udel.edu", "Could someone point me toward a source (FTP/BBS/whatever) for development\ntools for the 8051 microprocessor. I specifically am looking for a Macintosh\ncross-assembler/disassembler. Also, is there a mailing-list dedicated to\ndiscussing the 8051? Thanks.\n", "I'm thinking of splashing out on a new motherboard for my PC. I am\nrunning Linux as my main OS, with a small DOS partition left for my\nflatmates' games.\n\nMy current setup is a 386SX-25 (AMD) with 387SX-25 (ITT - I think) and 9\nMbytes of 70ns SIMMS, and (120+100)Mbyte IDE.\n\nBasically I have two choices\n\n1) Get a 386DX-40 + 387DX-40 or\n2) Get some sort of 486.\n\nUnfortunately I live in the UK where computer prices are far too high.\nThe first option works out at about \\pounds 200. 486 m/boards start at\nthis price for a SX-25.\n\nI have a couple of questions.\n\n1) How much of an improvement in speed should I notice if I get a\n386DX+copro. Remember I'm using a 32 bit OS, and alot of Floating Point\noperations.\n\n2) How much faster would a 486DX-33 be than the 386DX-40+copro ?\n\nShould I get an upgradeable m/board with a 386DX-40 and wait for\nAMD/Pentium price pressure to reduce the costs of the 486 ?\n\n\tAny experiences will be most helpful ...\n\n\t\tKenny.\n\nPS. Example prices:\n\n\t386DX-40+copro M/board\t~$270\n\t486DX33\tM/board\t\t~$580\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------\nKenneth MacDonald\t\tE-mail kenny@castle.ed.ac.uk\nDept. of Geology & Geophysics\nUniversity of Edinburgh\t\tScotland", "\nApplied Engineering makes a NuBus card called the QuadraLink which is \na board that contains 4 serial ports, which I believe can be used\nsimultaneously. I'm not a user of one of these, but I have installed\na couple for people at work (I'm a technician). Hope this helps.\n", "Does anyone know where the program MONOUMB.386 is available .. I have \nchecked my Windows system disks and MONOUMB2.386 is there but not the \nother one.. Thanks..\n\nStan Kucera\n\n", "Dear Netters,\n\n My friend have brought a S3801 card with 2Mb RAM. Is there any new driver \nfor the card available on ftp cites? What is the newest version? She is very \ninterest in have a driver for 1024x768 with HiColor and 800x600 true color.\nNo such driver come with the card.\n\nK.W.Mok", "\"The Preferred Applications Development Platform\"\naccording to 432 of the Fortune 1000 corporations\nSurvey by Sentry Market Research Survey\n(All percentages)\n\n 1992 1993\n\nUnix 18 28\nMainframe 35 22\nDOS & MSW 24 18\nOS/2 8 17\nMidrange 14 14\n\nThis is from `Corporate Computing', May 1993, page 28.\nIt's interesting to see how the greatest vapour-project of the world\nhas not been able to make much of a difference here :-)\n\nBefore you think it's a interesting rag, they have this incredibly\nincompetent article/opinion piece by someone named Robert Ziff which\nhas preposturous statements like \"Sun has sold around 300\nmultiprocessing servers\"!!!!!! (In that case USC has around 4% of all\nSun MP servers on earth :-)) He is off by a factor of 50? 100? \nI thought of sending them a \"factual disaster\" email message; they have\na column titled \"how to contact us\" but being silly PCheads they seem\nto have never heard of the Internet.\n\nThese may also be of interest:\n\nWorld computer market share by broad category (%)\n\n 1991 1996\n\nDOS, Windows, Netware 37.0 40.0\nUnix 11.6 21.0\nIBM Mainframe 17.4 14.4\nVAX/VMS 3.7 2.6\nIBM minis 4.1 4.0\nMacintosh 3.6 4.6\nOther 22.6 13.4\n\nTotally $155 billion\n\n1996 projections are by IDC\nSource: Unix World, Jan 1993\n\n\n\n1993 Unix hardware sales by category\n\n $billion installed-base\n\nWorkstations 14.1 3 million\nMidrange 7.4 1 million\nLarge-scale 1.8\nPC Unix 0.6 2 million\n\nTotal 23.9", "\n\n\n\n(How is 0-40 twice 1.25? Do you just pick whatever SCSI setup that makes\nthe statment \"correct\"?)\nEven if you could make such a statement it would be meaningless unless\nyou understood that ESDI and IDE (I include SCSI and ATA) are\ncompletely different (ESDI is device-level, like MFM/RLL).\n\n\n\nGreat, you can compare two numbers (ATA has several speed modes, by the\nway) but what the article said was misleading/wrong.\n\n\nI would recommend people call the NCR board and download the ANSI specs\nif they are really interested in this stuff.\n\n\n\nSomething is missing there. :) Anyway, I agree. There's a lot of\nopportunity for marketing jingo like \"SCSI-2 compliant\" which tells\nyou nothing about the performance, whether it has \"WIDE\" support, etc.\n", "This is the official Request for Discussion (RFD) for the creation of two\nnew newsgroups for Microsoft Windows NT. This is a second RFD, replacing\nthe one originally posted in January '93 (and never taken to a vote). The\nproposed groups are described below:\n\nNAME: \t comp.os.ms-windows.nt.setup\nSTATUS: Unmoderated.\nPURPOSE: Discussions about setting up and installing Windows NT, and about\n\t system and peripheral compatability issues for Windows NT.\n\nNAME:\t comp.os.ms-windows.nt.misc\nSTATUS:\t Unmoderated.\nPURPOSE: Miscellaneous non-programming discussions about using Windows NT,\n\t including issues such as security, networking features, console\n\t mode and Windows 3.1 (Win16) compatability.\n\nRATIONALE:\n\tMicrosoft NT is the newest member of the Microsoft Windows family\n\tof operating systems (or operating environments for those who wish\n\tto argue about the meaning of an \"OS\"). The family ranges from\n\tModular Windows through Windows 3.1 and Windows for Workgroups to\n\tWindows NT at the high end. To date, Microsoft has shipped over\n\t50,000 beta copies and pre-release SDKs of Windows NT -- the\n\tactual release is slated for May/June '93.\n\n\tWhile Windows NT has an entirely new design internally, it shares\n\tan application programming interface with the other members of the\n\tWindows family; its Win32 API includes the Win16 API used in Win-\n\tdows 3.1, and the Win32s API subset (Win32 less threads, networking\n\tand security) can be used to create 32-bit applications for\n\tWindows 3.1.\n\n\tThe user interface is also practically identical to that of Windows\n\t3.1, with the addition of logins and a few other features. It uses\n\tProgram Manager, File Manager and other applets, and generally pre-\n\tsents an identical appearance to the user. Many of the announced\n\tWindows NT applications are ports of existing Windows 3.1 apps, and\n\tNT also runs existing 3.1 applications.\n\n\tThus, it appears logical that Windows NT should share the following\n\tgroups with the other members of the Windows family:\n\t\tcomp.os.ms-windows.apps\n\t\tcomp.os.ms-windows.programmer.tools\n\t\tcomp.os.ms-windows.programmer.misc\n\t\tcomp.os.ms-windows.programmer.win32\n\t\n\tThe following groups are also clearly applicable to Windows NT as\n\twell as Windows 3.1:\n\t\tcomp.os.ms-windows.announce\n\t\tcomp.os.ms-windows.advocacy\n\t\n\tIn conclusion, the only clear argument for the separation of the\n\tWindows 3.1 and Windows NT hierarchies is different internal\n\tstructures of Windows 3.1 and Windows NT. And yet operating\n\tsystems such as OS/2, Macintosh OS, Xenix and Coherent all have\n\tundergone major rewrites without having been split into separate\n\tnewsgroup hierarchies.\n\n\tFurther, Windows 3.1 is due for a major rewrite itself in 1994 --\n\twhen the fully 32-bit, protected-mode and with-DOS-built-in next-\n\tgeneration Windows, \"Chicago\", debuts next year, surely it should\n\tremain in the same hierarchy. And what, then, would be the jus-\n\ttification for separating Windows NT from other Windows versions?\n\n\nDISCUSSION PERIOD:\n\tThe discussion period will run from 27 April, 1992 to 18 May, 1993. \n\nVOTING:\n\tThe CFV (Call for Votes) will be issued around 19 May, 1993, based on\n\tthe feedback received during the discussion period. No votes will\n\tbe accepted prior to the CFV.", "\nThe original poster, John Navitsky, said that he might use the monitor on\na SparcStation LX. The LX is able to generate a picture at 1280*1024 at\n76 Hz. Not officially, but I tried to set this resolution and refresh rate\nand the LX came up with a non-syncing screen. Our tube obviously couldn't\nhandle this speed. At 67 Hz, it worked perfectly.\n\nWhen buying a third party monitor that's going to be used on a SparcStation\nLX, you might consider a monitor that's fast enough to do 1280*1024 at 76Hz.\nI don't know for sure whether the LX supports this (Sun certainly won't tell\nyou) so you'll have to check.", "TO: rych@festival.ed.ac.uk (R Hawkes)\n\nRH>I've noticed that if you only save a model (with all your mapping planes\nRH>positioned carefully) to a .3DS file that when you reload it after restarting\nRH>3DS, they are given a default position and orientation. But if you save\nRH>to a .PRJ file their positions/orientation are preserved. Does anyone\nRH>know why this information is not stored in the .3DS file? Nothing is\n\n This is because the PRJ (Project) format saves all of your settings,\n right down to the last render file's name.\n\nRH>I'd like to be able to read the texture rule information, does anyone have\nRH>the format for the .PRJ file?\n\n Sorry... Don't have anything on that or the CEL format.\n\n....r.c V.t.ell. .r...", "Hello,\n\nAnyone know of any source code I can get to either create window \ndumps in GIF format, or convert an XWD (x window dump) file \ninto a GIF? Really could be any format I can manipulate in DOS, \ni.e. PCX, BMP, etc.\n\nlater,\n\nshane\n", "Can anyone help with this?\n\nSystem: SPARC Classic, Solaris 2.1, gcc 2.3.3, X11R5\n\nWhen I try to build the XView libraries (xview3, patched with the patch from\nthe X11R5-Solaris kit), I get the following error:\n\nrm -f ndet_loop.o shared/ndet_loop.o\ngcc -fpcc-struct-return -E -O2 -I../../.././build/include -I/usr/X11R5/include -DSVR4 -DSYSV -DFUNCPROTO=15 -DOS_HAS_LOCALE -DOS_HAS_MMAP ndet_loop.c \\\ngcc -fpcc-struct-return -fPIC -O2 -I../../.././build/include -I/usr/X11R5/include -DSVR4 -DSYSV -DFUNCPROTO=15 -DOS_HAS_LOCALE -DOS_HAS_MMAP -c x.c \\\n-o shared/ndet_loop.o\nIn file included from ../../.././build/include/xview/notify.h:29, from ../../.././build/include/xview_private/ntfy.h:24, from x.c:18:\n/usr/include/sys/ucontext.h:25: parse error before `sigset_t'\n/usr/include/sys/ucontext.h:25: warning: no semicolon at end of struct or union\n/usr/include/sys/ucontext.h:26: warning: data definition has no type or storage class\n/usr/include/sys/ucontext.h:29: parse error before `}'\n/usr/include/sys/ucontext.h:29: warning: data definition has no type or storage class\nIn file included from ../../.././build/include/xview_private/ntfy.h:24, from x.c:18:\n./../.././build/include/xview/notify.h:286: parse error before `*'\n./../.././build/include/xview/notify.h:286: warning: data definition has no type or storage class\nIn file included from x.c:35:\n/usr/include/sys/user.h:226: `MAXSIG' undeclared, outside of functions\nndet_loop.c:71: `NSIG' undeclared, outside of functions\nndet_loop.c:85: variable `ndet_sigvec' has initializer but incomplete type\nndet_loop.c:88: parse error before `*'\nndet_loop.c:88: warning: data definition has no type or storage class\nndet_loop.c: In function `ndet_fig_sig_change':\nndet_loop.c:687: `NSIG' undeclared (first use this function)\nndet_loop.c:687: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once\nndet_loop.c:687: for each function it appears in.)\nndet_loop.c: In function `ndet_signal_catcher':\nndet_loop.c:751: parse error before `ucontext_t'\nndet_loop.c:764: `sigset_t' undeclared (first use this function)\nndet_loop.c:764: parse error before `newmask'\nndet_loop.c:766: `newmask' undeclared (first use this function)\nndet_loop.c:769: `oldmask' undeclared (first use this function)\nndet_loop.c:777: parse error before `)'\nndet_loop.c:795: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without a cast\nndet_loop.c:798: parse error before `)'\nndet_loop.c: In function `ndet_send_delayed_sigs':\nndet_loop.c:825: `sigset_t' undeclared (first use this function)\nndet_loop.c:825: parse error before `newmask'\nndet_loop.c:837: `newmask' undeclared (first use this function)\nndet_loop.c:839: `oldmask' undeclared (first use this function)\nndet_loop.c:848: parse error before `)'\nndet_loop.c: At top level:\nndet_loop.c:1022: parse error before `*'\nndet_loop.c:85: storage size of `ndet_sigvec' isn't known\n*** Error code 1\nmake: Fatal error: Command failed for target `ndet_loop.o'\nrm -f ndet_loop.o shared/ndet_loop.o\ngcc -fpcc-struct-return -E -O2 -I../../.././build/include -I/usr/X11R5/include -DSVR4 -DSYSV -DFUNCPROTO=15 -DOS_HAS_LOCALE -DOS_HAS_MMAP ndet_loop.c \\\ngcc -fpcc-struct-return -fPIC -O2 -I../../.././build/include -I/usr/X11R5/include -DSVR4 -DSYSV -DFUNCPROTO=15 -DOS_HAS_LOCALE -DOS_HAS_MMAP -c x.c \\\n-o shared/ndet_loop.o\nIn file included from ../../.././build/include/xview/notify.h:29, from ../../.././build/include/xview_private/ntfy.h:24, from x.c:18:\n/usr/include/sys/ucontext.h:25: parse error before `sigset_t'\n/usr/include/sys/ucontext.h:25: warning: no semicolon at end of struct or union\n/usr/include/sys/ucontext.h:26: warning: data definition has no type or storage class\n/usr/include/sys/ucontext.h:29: parse error before `}'\n/usr/include/sys/ucontext.h:29: warning: data definition has no type or storage class\nIn file included from ../../.././build/include/xview_private/ntfy.h:24, from x.c:18:\n./../.././build/include/xview/notify.h:286: parse error before `*'\n./../.././build/include/xview/notify.h:286: warning: data definition has no type or storage class\nIn file included from x.c:35:\n/usr/include/sys/user.h:226: `MAXSIG' undeclared, outside of functions\nndet_loop.c:71: `NSIG' undeclared, outside of functions\nndet_loop.c:85: variable `ndet_sigvec' has initializer but incomplete type\nndet_loop.c:88: parse error before `*'\nndet_loop.c:88: warning: data definition has no type or storage class\nndet_loop.c: In function `ndet_fig_sig_change':\nndet_loop.c:687: `NSIG' undeclared (first use this function)\nndet_loop.c:687: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once\nndet_loop.c:687: for each function it appears in.)\nndet_loop.c: In function `ndet_signal_catcher':\nndet_loop.c:751: parse error before `ucontext_t'\nndet_loop.c:764: `sigset_t' undeclared (first use this function)\nndet_loop.c:764: parse error before `newmask'\nndet_loop.c:766: `newmask' undeclared (first use this function)\nndet_loop.c:769: `oldmask' undeclared (first use this function)\nndet_loop.c:777: parse error before `)'\nndet_loop.c:795: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without a cast\nndet_loop.c:798: parse error before `)'\nndet_loop.c: In function `ndet_send_delayed_sigs':\nndet_loop.c:825: `sigset_t' undeclared (first use this function)\nndet_loop.c:825: parse error before `newmask'\nndet_loop.c:837: `newmask' undeclared (first use this function)\nndet_loop.c:839: `oldmask' undeclared (first use this function)\nndet_loop.c:848: parse error before `)'\nndet_loop.c: At top level:\nndet_loop.c:1022: parse error before `*'\nndet_loop.c:85: storage size of `ndet_sigvec' isn't known\n*** Error code 1\nmake: Fatal error: Command failed for target `ndet_loop.o'\n\nObviously, most of this is due to the problem encountered while including \n - I've tried several approaches, but can't get past this point.\nAny help would be greatly appreciated.\n\nMahalo nui o kakou,\n_______________________________________________________________________________\nHenry Stilmack ) \nComputing Systems Manager ) Perform random kindnesses \nUK/Netherlands/Canada Joint Astronomy Centre ) and senseless acts of beauty\n660 N. A'ohoku Place, Hilo, HI 96720 ) \nhps@jach.Hawaii.Edu 808-969-6530 ) ", "I'd say the subject line about covers it. I need a MC68881 Floating point\n Co-processor for my SUN 3 system. Please reply via Email if you've got one\n of these thingies that you'ld like to sell me.\n\n Thanks.\n-- \n ----------------------------------------------------------------\n | Paul L. Moreau | Storage Concepts Inc. |\n | Sr. Diagnostics Eng. | 1622 Deere Ave |\n | Email: paulm@storcon.com | Irvine, CA. 92714 |\n | Uucp: ..!storcon!paulm | (714)852-8511, Fax (714)557-5064 |", ": \n: Just taken delivery of a 66MHz 486 DX2 machine, and very nice it is too.\n: One query - the landmark speed when turbo is on is 230 or something MHz\n: - thats not the problem. The problem is the speed when turbo is off. Its\n: 7 MHz. The equivalent in car terms is having a nice Porsche with a button\n: that turns it into a skateboard.\n: \n: Does anyone have a clue as to what determines the relative performance of\n: turbo vs non-turbo?? I would like to set it to give a landmark speed of\n: about 30 or 40 MHz with turbo off.\n: \n: Cheers,\n: ", "\nI will sell it for $33 including shipping...\n", "\nWrong, wrong, completely wrong (and a little misleading, too).\n\nWhite noise is random noise whose energy density is constant for a\nconstant bandwidth. That is, a 5 Hz wide band at 20 Hz will have precisely\nthe same amount of energy as a 5 Hz band at 20 kHz.\n\nPink noise is random noise whose energy density is constant for a constant\nprecentage bandwidth. Thus, a 5% wide band of noise at 20 Hz (whose\nbandwidth is 1 Hz) will contain the same energy as a 5% wide band at 20\nkHz (whose bandwidth is 1000 Hz wide). \n\nWhite noise is often used with spectrum analyzers that have constant\nbandwidths, pink noise is used with audio-type real-time analyzers whose\nbandwidths are centert-frequency dependent (often described as \"1/3\noctave\" or \"1/2 octave\" or some such terminology).\n\nWhite noise, relative to pink noise, has more energy at high frequencies\n(at a rate equal to 3 dB per octave). Pink noise, relative to white noise,\nhas more energy at low frequencies (at a rate equl to, again, 3\ndb/octave).\n", "\n Did the Russian spacecraft(s) on the ill-fated Phobos mission a few\nyears ago send back any images of the Martian moon? If so, does anyone know if\nthey're housed at an ftp site?\n Thanks.\n \n", "\n\nThis is normally the case, but make sure you get a board with a plug in oscillator\nas you will screw up your warranty if you start to solder the board.\n\n", "Hi! Everyone,\n\nBecause no one has touched the problem I posted last week, I guess\nmy question was not so clear. Now I'd like to describe it in detail:\n\nThe offset of an ellipse is the locus of the center of a circle which\nrolls on the ellipse. In other words, the distance between the ellipse\nand its offset is same everywhere.\n\nThis problem comes from the geometric measurement when a probe is used.\nThe tip of the probe is a ball and the computer just outputs the\npositions of the ball's center. Is the offset of an ellipse still\nan ellipse? The answer is no! Ironically, DMIS - an American Indutrial\nStandard says it is ellipse. So almost all the software which was\nimplemented on the base of DMIS was wrong. The software was also sold\ninternationaly. Imagine, how many people have or will suffer from this bug!!!\nHow many qualified parts with ellipse were/will be discarded? And most\nimportantly, how many defective parts with ellipse are/will be used?\n\nI was employed as a consultant by a company in Los Angeles last year\nto specially solve this problem. I spent two months on analysis of this\nproblem and six months on programming. Now my solution (nonlinear)\nis not ideal because I can only reconstruct an ellipse from its entire\nor half offset. It is very difficult to find the original ellipse from\na quarter or a segment of its offset because the method I used is not\nanalytical. I am now wondering if I didn't touch the base and make things\ncomplicated. Please give me a hint.\n\nI know you may argue this is not a CG problem. You are right, it is not.\nHowever, so many people involved in the problem \"sphere from 4 poits\".\nWhy not an ellipse? And why not its offset?\n\nPlease post here and let the others share our interests \n(I got several emails from our netters, they said they need the\nsummary of the answers).", "\n\nNot quite. 66MHz Pentium - 65 SPECint92, 57 SPECfp92 .\n\t 66MHz MC98601 - 50 SPECint92, 80 SPECfp92 .\n\nNote that SPECint is more important for most real world applications.\n\n\nAs far as the 486DX2-66 goes - 32 SPECint92, 16 SPECfp92 .\n\n\n\nIntel chips have traditionally been faster than their Motorola \"equivalents\"\nalthough the significance of chip speed in real world application performance\nis something that is highly debatable.\n\n\n\n-- \nRavikumar Venkateswar\nrvenkate@uiuc.edu", "Where could I find a description of the JPG file format? Specifically\nI need to know where in a JPG file I can find the height and width of \nthe image, and perhaps even the number of colors being used.\n\nAny suggestions?\n\nPeter\n", "\nVery interested indeed! This is against this kind of \"changes\" that the GNU\nCOPYLEFT is protecting us.\n\nAnyway, at SIMULOG, we will abandon xv. We were using it mostly for slide-\nshows because of its \"-loop\" feature that display does not have (display\nfrom the *wonderful* ImageMagick package! :-D), but I think I will implement\nit myself (even a shell-script should do the job) and forget xv.\n\nCheers,\nChristophe.\n-- muller@simulog.fr", "Hi,\n\nI'm working on a project that involves storing an application's rendering\nto an X display and then playing it back again. Rather than \n\"reinvent the wheel\", it like to find:\n\t* a file format for saving X protocol.\n\t* software that saves and replays such a session.\n\nAny ideas out there? I've heard that there is a version of Xscope\nthat will save and replay sessions.\n\nI'd be willing to share much of the code I develop back to the X community.\n\n\nAxel............", ":\n:I got the following today from Gary Risebrough and it worked fine:\n:\n:Excerpts from mail: 29-Apr-93 Re: ol{v}wm 3 virtual keybo..\n:ITO2@aodc.gov.au (554)\n:\n\n:> I have :\n:> > OpenWindows.KeyboardCommands: Full\n:> > OpenWindows.VirtualGrabKeys : False\n:\n:> which seems to work.\n:\n\nWhere can I find man pages about VirtualGrabKeys resource - it doesn't\nshow up in my OpenWindows 3.0 man pages...", "Xm++/CommonInteract Another User Interface Development System\n-------------------\n\nIf you would like to implement X-Toolkit applications with C++ in a style\nlike this...\n\n// mini sample application /////////////////////////////////////\n\nclass Test : public XmWindow {\n\tvoid cmd(char*);\n\tvoid quit(void*);\npublic:\n Test() : XmWindow(\"Xm++ Test Window\") {}\n\n\tvoid initialize();\n};\n\nvoid Test::initialize() {\n XmDropdownMenu* menu = createDropdownMenu();\n\n menu->addLabel(\"&File\");\n menu->addItems( Entry(\"Menu Item &One\", CB(Test::cmd)), \n Entry(\"Menu Item &Two\", CB(Test::cmd)),\n NULLENTRY);\n menu->addSeparator();\n menu->addItem(\tEntry(\"E&xit\", CB(Test::quit)));\n\n addSubpane(Edit, \"myEdit\");\n edit(\"myEdit\")->setText(\"Hello World.\");\n}\n\nvoid Test::cmd(char* n) {\n\tedit(\"myEdit\")->setText(n);\n}\n\nvoid Test::quit(void*) {\n\texit(0);\n}\n\nvoid XmApp::initialize() {\n (new Test)->initialize();\n}\n\n///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////\n\n...then continue reading (contents of the current release's README):\n\nXm++ is a user interface framework for the C++ language built upon X11\nand the X-Toolkit. It is designed to be a simple and intuitive programming\ninterface to access the functionality of commonly used widgets.\nXm++ was initially created for the Motif widget set, now support for the\nAthena widgets was added. Applications created with Xm++ run in both\nenvironments without changes, although many nice features are only\navailable when using Motif.\nIn some situations Xm++ extends the underlying toolkit (i.e. providing\na ComboBox borrowed from MS-Windows), but never tries to replace it -\ndata of user interface objects is left to the widgets and only duplicated\nin rare cases.\n\nXm++ has nothing common with Motif++ besides the general idea to\nencapsulate Motif widgets in C++ objects and the '++' in it's name. Many\nideas for the Xm++ architecture came from Digitalk's Smalltalk version,\nwhich provides an easy to use framework for Windows/PM/Mac applications\n(in the very first time of development I used the Windows dialog editor and\na simple parser to create similar Smalltalk and Xm++ dialogs :-).\n\nTop level objects in Xm++:\n* 'Windows', 'SystemDialogs' and 'ToolBoxes' which use the automatic layout\n feature of various composite widgets in Motif and Xaw\n* 'UserDialogs' which can be individually laid out with a user interface\n builder (a first version of such a dialog editor is included in this\n distribution)\n\nControls (children of top level objects):\n'staticText', 'staticImage', 'pushButton', 'checkBox', 'radioButton',\n'edit', 'listBox', 'comboBox', 'groupBox', 'paneArea', 'drawing', 'toolBar'\n\nThe staticImage and all the button classes can display b/w (X-bitmap\nformat) or color (GIF format) pictures as an alternative to a label text.\n\nEvent handling is done by a simple but powerful mechanism which redirects\nXt callbacks to member functions of Xm++ objects.\n\n\nCommonInteract(II) is built upon the Xm++ drawing class and provides\ncomponents for building direct manipulative applications. Is is a very\nsimplified implementation of some features from the CommonInteract system\n(research project of our institute in 1991), an approach to define a\nsoftware achitecture for implementing direct manipulative applications\nwith multiple interaction media (i.e. sound, alternative input devices).\nIf you are interrested, look into the June 1993 issue of the JOOP (SIGS\nPublications - Journal of Object Oriented Programming) - there should be\nour paper about CommonInteract (but be aware, that it is our 'state of\nthe art' from 1991).\nCommonInteract(II) is still undocumented and is included because it was\nused to implement the dialog editor. It currently supports only drawing\nprimitives (lines, rectangles, circles...), but we plan to extend it to\nsupport bitmaps and some controls also.\nKnown problem: the Xm++ drawing class has no redrawing strategy (always\nredraws the whole window, even after minimal changes like selecting an\nobject), this looks very ugly on slow displays and should be fixed.\n\n\nAbout this first release:\n\nXm++ is still incomplete and has a lot of bugs but we are using it here\nfor smaller applications which are running without problems. So I think\nI can call it a 'beta release' which can be used to develop applications\nfor any non-critical purposes.\nCommonInteract may be called a 'pre alpha release'. It's development will\nbe continued this year because we plan to use it for another research\nproject here. Besides incompleteness and the redrawing problem it seems\nto be stable and can be used for experimental applications.\n\nPlatforms: this release was compiled and tested on:\n HP9000/720 running HP-UX 8.07\n SUN SPARC running SunOS Release 4.1.1\n PC-AT386 running Linux v0.99pl6\n\nCaution: although the whole stuff was initially developed using an AT&T\nstandard C++ compiler - this release is tested only with GNU g++ 2.3.3 or\nabove (the next release will be tested with both compilers).\n\nWhere to get it:\n================\n\nI have uploaded it on: export.lcs.mit.edu as: /contrib/Xm++.0.5.tar.Z\n\n(send a mail, if you cannot find it there, e-mail addr. below)\n\nWhere to find more information:\n===============================\n\nthe .../doc directory contains\n INSTALL - how to build the libraries and examples\n README.GNU - problems and limitations when using gnu g++ (read!!)\n usersGuide.txt - a tutorial how to use Xm++\n reference.txt - a first try of a Xm++ class reference manual\n\nthe README files in the .../samples gives a brief description of\neach of the seven samples.\n\n\nXm++/CommonInteract is free software for any non-profit purposes,\nsee the file .../lib/COPYRIGHT for details.\n\nSend any comments, bug reports and donations :-) to the Author:\n\n Bernhard Strassl\n Vienna User Interface Group\n\tInstitute for Applied Computer Science and Information Systems\n University of Vienna\n Lenaugasse 2/8, A-1080 Wien, Austria", "\n Hey,\n \n Does anyone know of an ftp site where I can get pkunzip2.04g from.\n I tried using archie with no such luck. This version of pkunzip is suppose\n to correct some promblems when using pkunzip within windows. Thanks in\n advance! :-)\n ", "What is the expected run time (+/- a factor of 10) on a 486DX/50\nusing the best known algorithm for finding the shortest path\nsolution for Rubicks Cube from a randomly chosen position?\n\nI have read the FAQ and followed the recent discussion on Rubicks\nCube but I don't believe this question has been answered. Notice\nthat I am specifically looking for an algorithm that finds the \nSHORTEST path, not just any solution.\n\nIt seems to me that the underlying assumption is that such a program\nwould need to do a brute force search though 10^20 positions. That\nseems an unreasonably pessimistic assumption to me and I want to \nknow if someone has significantly improved on that.\n\nI have some ideas of my own on how to approach this problem, but\nbefore I spend to much time developing them I wanted to know if\nsomeone else has already done the work.\n\nADMINISTRIVIA: I have posted this to three groups and attempted\nto set the followup to rec.puzzles which seems to me to be the\nplace to continue this discussion. I will cross post a summary\nwhen and if it becomes appropriate. Email replies gladly accepted.", "I was at avalon today and found texture maps in some \"tex\" and \"txc\"\nformat, something I've never encountered before. These are obviously\nnot tex or LaTeX files.\n\nIF you have a clue how I can convert these to something\nreasonable, please let me know.", "I am working on a problem of scheduling classroom, and I will like to know if\nyou have some software, papers or articles about it. If you have something\nrelate it, please let me know.\n\n\t\tthanks", "In fact, I'm looking for a possibility to connect different peaces of information\n(like in the windows help system). \n\nAnd no, I don't want to program such a system by myself. The necessary effort and\nafford should be as small as possible.", "\n\nTry this: flip your mouse over, and open up the cover that holds the\nmouse ball in place. Remove the ball, and inside you should see\n(probably) 3 rollers. If any of the rollers have a tiny layer of\ncaked-on dirt, dust, or otherwise unidentifiable scum on them, carefully\nscrape it off with a small knife (Xacto works great). *Be Careful*\nYou do not want to gauge the rollers, just clean off the dirt.\nPut the ball back in, put the cover on, and there you are. \n\nI clean a couple of dozen of these every month here. Another symptom\nis that when you move the mouse, it seems to \"click\" along. If this\ndoesn't solve your problem, at least you have a clean mouse. I highly\nrecommend using a proper _soft_ mouse pad, and if you are a clean freak,\nplace it in your drawer every night or when you don't use it to keep\nthe dust off.\n\nPersonally I prefer track balls. Oh, which brings me to another point:\nif your mouse or trackball tracks optically, and the sunlight is \nstreaming through the window onto your mouse/trackball, you may notice\nthat it will stop working. If this happens to you, close the curtains\nor blinds, or simply shade your pointing device, and see if that helps.\n", "About two months ago I purchased the Adaptec ASW-410 driver for use with a\nCD-ROM drive. At the time this seemed the thing to do as the documentation I\nhad with my Adaptec SCSI controller said that this is the driver to be used with\nCD-ROM drives. Since then I have learn that this driver is out of date in a\nmajor way and that Adaptec have an upgrade deal for going to the next driver\n(I think it's called EZI-SCSI or something). I wasn't too fussed about this\nuntil I upgraded by CD-ROM drive from a Sony CDU-541 to a Sony CDU-641. I now\nfind that the audio-mode will not work. I assume it is not being handled\ncorrectly by the ASW-410 driver.\n\nSo, should I chase Adaptec for an upgrade? If so does anyone know their\nFAX number?\n\nAny assistance appreciated.\n\nRegards\n\nBTW: everything else works fine, certainly seems that Sony have caught up with\n the rest with the 641.", "I am glad and proud to announce the new mailing-list for the PD Motif C++\nbindings. I got over 40 replies in about one week of people interested in\nsuch a list, and the software has now been properly installed, so the list\nis now up and running. For those interested in joining, please send e-mail\nto that extend to 'motif++-request@cv.ruu.nl' or 'rvloon@cv.ruu.nl'.\n\nThe blurb everyone who joins gets follows, as well as the original \nannouncement for where Motif++ can be obtained.\n\nEnjoy!\n\n8< - 8< -\n\n\nWelcome to the Motif++ Mailing List!\n\nThe Motif++ mailing list is a mailing list dedicated to Motif++, the PD C++\nwrapper library for Motif, where people can ask questions about Motif++, \nswap stories, and give new ideas about new directions and improvements for the \nbindings. \n\nAll requests of an administrative nature, like subscription, removal, etc.\nshould be directed to motif++-request@cv.ruu.nl\n\nAll e-mail sent to motif++@cv.ruu.nl will be sent to the entire list, so\nplease make sure when using 'vacation' type programs that will reply to\nmessages automatically, that the address for the mailing-list is excluded \nfrom auto-replies.\n\nEnjoy!\n\nRonald van Loon | In theory, there is no difference \n(rvloon@cv.ruu.nl) | between theory and practice.\n3DCV Group, Utrecht | \nThe Netherlands | In practice however, there is.\n\n8< - 8< -\n\nHello Motif World,\n\nover the past half year there have been a lot of relatively minor changes to\nthe Motif++ bindings. Imake support has been improved, a few defaults have\nbeen changed, and a lot of other small things have been added.\n\nThis is basically a release which drops the 'gamma' status. Next release will\nincorporate some improvements by Stefan Schwarz, and possibly will support\nX11R5 and Motif 1.2.x.\n\nNote to all of those who keep copies of the archive: please retrieve this\ndistribution (during off-peak hours), and delete all previous copies.\n\nHere is the original ANNOUNCEMENT:\n\nHISTORY\n\nThe University of Lowell, supported by a grant of the Open Software Foundation,\nhas developed a wrapper-library, that encapsulates Motif widgets in C++\nclasses. All resources of these Widgets can now be set through\nmember-functions, while objects can be used in callback-functions. The library\nwas made available for free or nominal cost for anonymous ftp at 129.63.1.1.\nHowever, the library contained a large number of bugs and oversights, and only\nworked under X11R3. Due to lack of subsequent fundings, the bindings are no\nlonger actively supported by the University of Lowell.\n\nI, Ronald van Loon, at a certain point last year, have taken the Lowell \nbindings, fixing the bugs I came across, adding missing memberfunctions, and\nenhancing functionality and made the bug-fixed library available for the\ngeneral public for anonymous ftp (made possible by Rick Murphy at DEC).\n\nNEW RELEASE\n\nI am now pleased to announce a new and updated release of the Motif++\nbindings. \n\nThis release offers:\n\n- Full Motif1.1 and X11R4 support\n- Support for Xbae widgetset \n- Two additional widgets, written by myself, that can be used to indicate\n progress in an application.\n- Imake support. NB: this release relies heavily on the existence of imake\n\t\t and its config files on your site. I have tried to\n\t\t provide the bindings with a standard Makefile, tweakable\n\t\t for those unfortunates without imake. I have not severely\n\t\t tested the standard Makefile though. Contact me if you\n\t\t have problems. The reason for calling this a gamma\n\t\t release lies in the fact that I do not have a multitude\n\t\t of platforms to test the Imake-files on.\n- Lots of testfiles (even somewhat useful programs)\n- An article I wrote on the usage of Motif, X and C++, previously posted\n on Usenet.\n\nWHERE TO GET THE NEW MOTIF BINDINGS\n\nFtp:\n\nAnonymous ftp at decuac.dec.com (192.5.214.1), directory /pub/X11.\n\nNote:\n\nPlease be patient as the network link is quite slow. Please do not FTP large\nfiles during working hours.\n\nAlso note that there is also a motif++.31.jan.92.tar.Z file at this site; this\nis an old version of the bindings.\n\nE-mail:\n\nThose who don't have ftp can send me e-mail, and I will send the bindings by\ne-mail.\n\nREQUEST\n\nThose who use the bindings and find bugs, or see room for improvement, please\ncontact me, and I will try to incorporate them in a future release (in case of\nbugs, a bug-fix of course ;-). \n\nMORE INFORMATION \n\nContact me at \"rvloon@cv.ruu.nl\".\nIf you are desperate, then you can call me at\n+31 30 506711 (that is Utrecht, the Netherlands; those within the Netherlands\ncall 030-506711).\n\nEnjoy!\n", "I am looking out for an inexpensive fax modem card for PC. If you have one to sell, please e-mail \n", "folks,\n\nI have a Panasonic kx-1124 (just inherited with no documentation) which is \ngiving me a problem that i cant resolve.\n\n The paper out light refuses to go out . It starts to blink when ever i\nturn the power on which 2 beeps. It does allow be to go on line with green\nlight lit, simultanously the red paper out light also remains lit -but is\ndoes not blink.\n\n Please do not give any references to manuals , as i dont have any.\n\nThanking you all very much in advance.\n\nSincerely", "Thinking of buying from MidWest Micro of Ohio? Think *very* carefully.\nUnless you are absolutely sure you won't have any problems, you may want\nto trade elsewhere.\n\nDespite the fact that they answer the phone, \"Hi! I'm and we're\nhaving a GREAT Day!\", they weren't quite so happy when I wanted to return\na modem that didn't work as I expected it to.\n\nThe details:\n\nI ordered one of their house brand \"Infotel\" 14.4/DF internal FAX modems.\nIn reality, it was a Twincom Lightning FAX that had a paper sticker over\nthe name. Given the poor reports on the net about this modem, I would not\nhave ordered it, had I known this in advance.\n\nIt arrived on time. The documentation stated that it would work (and was\npreconfigured) as COM4, providing that COM2 was not in use at the same time.\n\nFor several reasons, I have a serial card configured for COM1/COM2. At the\ntime I installed the modem, nothing was connected to COM2.\n\nAlthough the modem appeared to work, during every connection at 9600 or\n14.4, it would randomly break the connection and hang up the phone. After\nspending some time on the phone with MidWest's tech support, they suggested\ndisabling the COM2 port.\n\nThis appeared to solve the disconnect problem, but was an unacceptable long\nterm solution. I had to have COM1 and 2 available, even though they both\nwould not be in use at the same time as the modem.\n\nI called back 20 minutes prior to their closing and waited in Voicemail \nhell, listening to repeated advertisements for MidWest Micro products. I \nwas then promptly disconnected. Apparently it was quiting time and they \ndidn't want to be bothered with callers that had been waiting on the line.\n\nI called the next day and asked the Customer Diservice agent for an RMA\nnumber. She promptly switched me to a \"Tech Support\" rep that implied that\nit was my equipment at fault and that he wasn't going to give me an RMA\nnumber. He suggested I use some nonstandard IRQ settings, a solution I\nwas not happy with. The modem should work as originally configured.\n\nConclusion:\n\nI'm not sure the modem would work ok in a basic system, but it clearly does\nnot work in a multi port system like mine. Since my time is worth more \nthan the aggravation or the cost of the modem, I gave it to a local\ncharitable organization (with a description of my problem) and ordered\na Practical Peripherals 14.4MT from PC Connection.", "I saw an ad for this and it basically is an advanced print manager...\nit lets you monitor your printing more closely and comes with a bunch of\nTrue type fonts... anyone have this? Good? Bad? Worth it?\n", "You are making the same mistake I did: you are confusing the DRIVE\ninterface to the DATA THROUGHPUT interface. Again from my Mac & IBM info\nsheet {available by FTP on sumex-aim.stanford.edu (36.44.0.6) in the\ninfo-mac/report as mac-ibm-compare173.txt}:\nExpansion\nBoth Mac & IBM\nSCSI: only external device expansion interface common to both Mac and IBM.\n Allows the use of any device: hard drive, printer, scanner, Nubus card \n expansion {Mac Plus only}, some monitors, and CD-ROM. Apple developed some \n specifications for SCSI controlers while IBM has no exact controller \n specifications {which results in added incompatibilities on IBM machines}. \n Main problem: there are a lot of external devices which are internal \n terminated which causes problems for more then two devises off the SCSI port \n {A SCSI chain is supposed to be terminated ONLY at the begining and at the \n end. Any other set up causes problems for either Mac or IBM}. \nSCSI-1: 7 devices per SCSI controller. 8-bit asynchronous {~1.5MB/s ave}\n and synchronous {5MB/s max} transfer base. 16-bit SCSI-1 requires a\n SCSI-2 controler chip and can provide only fast SCSI-2 not wide SCSI-2\n which are both 16-bit interfaces {see SCSI-2}.\nSCSI-2: 10 devices per SCSI controller in SCSI-2 mode. SCSI-2 is fully\n SCSI-1 complient and tends to be implimented as a very fast SCSI-1 since it \n needs a different controller interface in both hardware {which tends to be \n very expendsive} and software. Transfer speeds are 4-6MB/s with 10MB/s burst \n {8-bit}, 8-12MB/s with 20MB/s burst {16-bit}, and 15-20MB/s with 40MB/s burst\n {32-bit/wide and fast}. SCSI-2 in SCSI-1 mode is limited to 7 devices and\n reduced 8-bit or 16-bit {fast only} throughput due to the difference between\n SCSI-1 and wide SCSI-2 ports.\n\nIBM\nHD Interfaces {limited to hard drives by design or lack of development}:\n[...]\nIDE: Integrated Device Electronics \n currently the most common standard, and is mainly used for medium sized \n drives. Can have more than one hard drive. Asynchronous Transfer: ~5MB/s max.\n\nSo at its LOWEST setting SCSI-2 interface in Asynchronous SCSI-1 mode AVERAGES \nthe through put MAXIMUM of IDE in asynchronous mode. In full SCSI-2 mode\nit blows poor IDE out the window, down the street, and into the garbage can.\nThe problem becomes can the drive mechanisim keep up with those through put\nrates and THAT is where the bottleneck and cost of SCSI-2 comes from. NOT\nthe interface itself but more and more from drive mechanisims to use the\nSCSI-2 through put. The cost of SCSI interface is a self fulliling\nprophisy: few people buy SCSI because it is so expencive for the PC, which\nin turn convices makes that mass producing SCSI {which would reduce its\ncost} is unwarented, and so SCSI is expencive. {That is the effect of the\nRule of Scale: the more items sold the less EACH item has to bare the brunt\nthe cost of manufacture and so the less each item has to cost}", "\n\n..\n\n\tI think the -traditional option to gcc would help.\n\tpersonally I used -traditional -O2 -funroll-loops to compile it\n\ton SUN4.1.1.\n\n\thope this helps...", "\nI also use IRQ 5. But there is one disadvantage. Some games assume that\nthe board is using IRQ 7 and have no way to adjust this setting. I had\ntrouble with some of the Lucas Films games.\n-- ", "Sorry about that - don't want to alarm anyone...\n\nI don't think there is any correlation between the crashes and PCTools.\nI reinstalled Ami Pro, and ran compress again, with no problems.\nI think problems may have been related to filling my disk until it had\n0 bytes (!) left while FTPing, although I would think it wouldn't\nmatter since Ami Pro wasn't running at the time, and I made space available\nimmediately anyways.\nBut, whatever, the cause, it is working now.", "I'm working at a workstation which is usually attached to a Novell\nnetwork (using shell version 3.22, I think). The workstation, a 386, was set\nup to run Windows 3.0 with the network about a year ago. Needless to say,\nI'd like to upgrade it to Windows 3.1, and have it work with the network.\n\n\tBasically, the Windows files'd be on the local hard drive, but\nseveral DOS applications, like Word Perfect, will be on the network. I'd\nmainly want Windows to access the network drives, the network printers, and\nperhaps handle some network functions as well. If I could multitask the DOS\napps whose executables are on the network, that'd be great, but I could live\nwithout it.\n\n\tEventually, I'd like to get a few other 486s in the office working\nwith the network and Windows 3.1 as well. (However, most of the terminals\nare 286s, which leaves the network pretty much DOS-bound, and I guess that\nleaves out Windows for Workgroups.) And in the future, maybe there'd be\nNorton desktop, but that's gettingahead of myself.\n\n\tAs you can guess, I've never done anything like this before. I've\nread through the networks material that came with Windows, but still, I'd\nlike to know if anyone out there has any experience in such an area.\n\n\tPlease reply by Email. I don't scan these newsgroups often.\n\n\tThanks for any replies.\n\n\nBrian \"Rev. P-K\" Siano revpk@cellar.org", "Organization: Compact Solutions, Canberra ACT Australia\n\nHas anybody every come across a problem whereby a hard disk locks up (ie. crashes the system) when attempting to load disk caching?\n\nI think the logic board may have been buggered, but the drive works PERFECTLY without a disk cache.\n\nI tried HyperDisk and various versions of SmartDRIVE, all to no avail.\n\nAny advice would be MUCH appreciated .. I need a cached drive, but I need the extra space of my second drive just as much! :-)\n\nThanks.\n\nCheers, Ben\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nBen J. Elliston\nBachelor of Engineering (Computer Engineering) \\\\\\//\nUniversity of Canberra (@ @)\n ___ooO_( )_Ooo__\nEmail: compsol@fir.canberra.edu.au V\nAlso: ellib@cbr.cpsg.com.au\nUUCP: ..!uunet!munnari!sserve.adfa.oz.au!compsol!root\nFidoNet: 3:620/262\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------", ": I have a 5 1/4\" drive as drive A. How can I make the system boot from\n: my 3 1/2\" B drive? (Optimally, the computer would be able to boot\n: from either A or B, checking them in order for a bootable disk. But\n: if I have to switch cables around and simply switch the drives so that\n: it can't boot 5 1/4\" disks, that's OK. Also, boot_b won't do the trick\n: for me.)\n: \n: Thanks,\n: Davebo\nWe had the same issue plague us for months on our Gateway. I finally\ngot tired of it so I permanently interchanged the drives. The only\nreason I didn't do it in the first place was because I had several\nbootable 5-1/4's and some 5-1/4 based install disks which expected\nthe A drive. I order all new software (and upgrades) to be 3-1/2 and\nthe number of \"stupid\" install programs that can't handle an alternate\ndrive are declining with time - the ones I had are now upgraded. And\nas for the bootable 5-1/4's I just cut 3-1/2 replacements.\n\nIf switching the drives is not an option, you might be able to wire up\na drive switch to your computer chasis. I haven't tried it but I think\nit would work as long as it is wired carefully.", "The Vatican library recently made a tour of the US.\n Can anyone help me in finding a FTP site where this collection is \n available.", "I have for sale a Hayes 2400 Personal Modem (External) for the Macintosh.\nReally nice small think. Plugs directly into a power plug ands has two\nlong cables, for to the phone and the other to your macintosh. Get back\nto me if you are interested with an offer. Thanks in advance.", "I caught up a mailmessage from an NCD guy, who stated that Tek\nmight be quitting it's X terminal activities and would be looking\nfor an interested buyer.\nSince the source of this message is NCD, THIS MIGHT ONLY BE NASTY\nGOSSIP !!!\nCan anyone say more about this??\n\nDick.", "I'm looking for a replacement radio/tape player for a 1984 \nToyota Tercel. Standard off-the-shelf unit is fine, but \nevery place I've gone to (Service Merchandise, etc.) doesn't \nhave my car in its model application book. I want to just \ntake out the old radio, and slide in the new, with minimal time\nspent hooking it up and adjusting the dashboard.\n\nIf you have put in a new unit in a similar car, I'd like to hear\nwhat brand, how easy it was to do the change, and any other \nrelevant information. \n\nPlease answer via E-mail.\nThanks, Tom Ostrand\n", "There are many Urban Legends (maybe this ought to be in the Crypt \nFAQ?) about what is actually sufficient to clear or declassify \nmagnetic media when used for classified data. Here is some \ninformation \"from the horse's mouth\".\n\n(Regarding the sufficient overwriting of media (\"clearing\") meant to \nbe *retained* within the controlled environment, or declassifying \nthe material to be reused *outside* the controlled environment,)\n\nFrom National Telecommunications and Information Systems \nSecurity (NTISS) \"Advisory Memorandum on Office Automation \nSecurity Guidelines\" (NTISSAM COMPUSEC/1/87):\n\n------\n\n\"7.6.2.1 Clearing of Magnetic Media\n\nCertain types of removable media (e.g., magnetic tape, floppy disk, \ncassettes, and magnetic cards) may be cleared by overwriting the \nentire media one time with any one character. Floppy disks may be \ncleared by applying a vendor's formatting program that overwrites \neach location with a given character.\n\nFixed media (e.g., Winchester disks) should be cleared by overwriting \nat least one time with any one character. One way to do this is by \napplying a vendor-supplied formatting program that overwrites each \nlocation on the disk with a given character, if it can be shown that \nthis program actually works as advertised. The user should beware: \nsome programs that purport to overwrite all locations do not \nactually do this.\n\nCleared media may be resides within the controlled facility or \nreleased for destruction; however, they should be marked and \ncontrolled at the level of the most restrictive sensitivity of \ninformation ever recorded.\n\n7.6.2.2 Declassification of Magnetic Media\n\nCertain types of removable media can be declassified using a \ndegaussing device that has been approved for declassifying media of \nthat type. (A list of approved devices is maintained by the NSA.)\n\nIf a fixed medium (for example, a hard, or Winchester, disk) is \noperative, an approved method of declassifying the disk pack is to \nemploy an overwrite procedure which must overwrite all \naddressable locations at least three times by writing any character, \nthen its complement (e.g., binary ones and binary zeros) \nalternatively.\n\nWhen fixed media become inoperative, it is impossible to declassify \nthe media by the overwrite method. In this case, there are two \nalternate procedures that may be used: (1) disassemble the disk \npack, and degauss each platter with the appropriate approved \ndegaussing equipment; and (2) courier the inoperative media to the \nvendor's facility, have the magnetic media (e.g., disk platter) \nremoved in sight of the courier and returned to the courier for \ndestruction at the secure site. The vendor can then install new \nplatters and repair any other problems with the disk unit.\n\n7.6.3 Destruction of Magnetic Media\"\n\n[see DoD Computer Security Center, \"Department of Defense Magnetic \nRemanence Security Guideline\", CSC-STD-003-85 FOR OFFICIAL USE \nONLY]\n\n------\n\nThis and many other interesting documents (many that are more \ninformative than probably intended) on computer security procedures \ncan be obtained (free) from:\n\nExecutive Secretary\nNational Telecommunications and Informations\n Systems Security Committee\nNational Security Agency\nFort George G. Meade, MD 20755-6000\n\nWrite them! It's fun to be on the NSA's mailing list... \n", "I have a couple applications for high speed data links\n1__replacement of ultrasonic signal coaxial cables with fiber optic cable\n2__applying fiber optic slip ring for 16 channel ultrasonics inspection\nsystem for CANDU reactor inspection\n3__remote data link from ultrasonic pipeline inspection device including\ntransfer of 16 channels via microwave or other higher speed transfer of\nultrasonic data from remote inspection head.\n\nI would be happy to share sources...other info as acquired.\nPlease mail me or post here.\n.....this is a long term upgrade over the next years _+", "I checked the FAQ on this first, and no luck..\n\n\nI need to convert the R5 Tree widget for use with xview v3.0. The\nproblem is the fact that xview uses their own event loop system, and I\nwas wondering if anyone had any tips (or converted source) on converting\nthese pups.\n", "\nHei Pei.\n\nI can not help you directly width you problem, but there may be\nintermediate roads to take to get to the IFF. I am using a converter\nthat can take IGES, IIF, DXF -> IGES, MILESPEC I IGES, MILESPEC II IGES, \nIIF, MILESPEC I IIF, MILESPEC II IIF and DXF.\n\nIIF is IBM IGES FORMAT. There may be converters out there that can handle\nIGES to IFF. Hope this was to any help. By the way the converter is part\nof the IGES Processor/6000 package from IBM and it runs on RS/6000 AIX.", "\nThe Partition button in Apple's HD Setup lets you set up A/UX and other\ntypes of partitions. It WON'T let you create more than one normal mac\nvolume. You need SilverLining or something similar to do that. It WILL,\nhowever, allow you to take advantage of some possible unused space on your\nhard disk, if you don't mind reformatting the whole thing.", "\n\n\n\n\nI use xwd and xwd2ps. To do it from within a program I use\nxwd -id xxxxx where xxxxx is the window id obtained from XtWindow(widget).\n--\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------", "Apollo (now HP) have a graphics board that does 80-bit graphics. When I \nheard that, I jumped. The answer isn't that it can do 100 trillion-trillion-\ntrillion colors. It actually does 10 planes of 8-bits (or 5 planes of 16\nbits, etc.) for very fast graphics.", "FOR SALE:\n\n* Besler 23C II Enlarger \n (including filters & negative carriers)\n\n* Darkroom supplies \n (containers, trays, thermometer, beakers, \n paper focuser, etc...I also have paper & \n chemicals, but I think these 2 are past \n expiration date)\n\n\nEverything is in great working condition. I bought it \nabout a year ago and it has served its purpose well. \nIt hasn't been used it in a few months because I don't \nhave the time or money to keep up with it and its just \nsitting in my bathroom taking up space I'd like to use.\nSo, I'd like to sell it to someone who would use it \nrather than it collect dust in my bathroom.\n\nIf you are interested in the whole package, I will sell \neverything (including shipping) for $300. If you have \nsomething else in mind, I'm open to suggestions.\n\nPlease reply to this account.", "\nUmmm.. I think you left the message out...\n\nI get these protection faults all the time on my machine at work, a\n486 33MHz with 4MB RAM, Windows 3.1, with Dos 5.0. \n\nAt home (on a 386 40MHz, 8MB RAM, Windows 3.1 and Dos 5.0) I *never* get\nthese. \n\nAny idea what could be wrong? Someone already suggested I check for tmp\nfiles in the windows/temp directory, there are none there.\n\nThe message I get is:\n\n\tThis application has violated system integrity due to an invalid\n\tgeneral protection fault and will be terminated.\n\nI only have this problem with applications running in DOS boxes (with or\nwithout .pif files setup for them).\n\nAny hints/help greatly appreciated. Please post since at least one other\nperson is also having gpf problems.\n\nThanks,\n Gordon\n", "Well, I'm glad that there's plenty of NT stuff at Xhibition.\nNot because I want to use it instead of X, but because I want to \nfind out what the chances are that some time in the future I may \nnot have any choice.\n", "\nNathan,\n Win31 has a fixed limit of 64K GDI memory, regardless of physical RAM\ninstalled, this is twice that of Win30, but not nearly robust enough for\nmany developers and power users.\n \nUsing Amish Launch as your shell, you can reduce GDI memory usage by as\nmuch as 15% over Progman, NDW 2, DAshboard, and other graphical type icon\nbased and other shells. Also, nesting, and full hot-key global support\nis offered, something no other shells have at this time.\n \nTed Matsumura, President\nAmish Software, Inc.", "I forwarded an old posting about CELP speech compression:\n\n\tIn case you'd like to experiment with CELP, you can obtain a software\n\timplementation of the 4800 bps Fed Std CELP coder for free:\n\n\tThe U.S. DoD's Federal-Standard-1016 based 4800 bps code excited linear\n\tprediction voice coder version 3.2 (CELP 3.2) Fortran and C simulation source\n\tcodes are now available for worldwide distribution at no charge (on DOS\n\tdiskettes, but configured to compile on Sun SPARC stations) from:\n\nI've since been told that the source of this is on cygnus.com\nin /pub/celp.speech.tar.Z\n\nI'm not in a position to; any Sun tcp/ip gurus out there who think they\ncan marry this with netfone by the end of the week? ;-) Seriously. I\nthink someone with real net access and two sparcs could have this running\nby the end of the week. Then we ask the pgp guys to add a bytestream\ncrypto filter. Two weeks at the most. [Damn, I wish I had my sparc\nback... I'm stuck on a 25mhz 386sx]\n\n\nShare and Enjoy!", "Newsgroups: comp.ibm.pc.hardware\nSubject: Logitech 2-button mouse pin-out & BIOS routine availability?\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network\n\nI have a Logitech 2S-2f (or 2f-2S) 2-button mouse that I want to\ninterface to a serial port of a different (non-ibm-compatible) system.\nThe mouse is XT/AT/PS2 compatible, with a DB25 connector. I tried\nto reverse engineer the mouse, but it has a micro-controller inside\nit.\n\nIf I could get the DB25 pin-out, and perhaps a copy of the BIOS routines\nthat support it, I could map all this into my target system?\n\nAnyone know where I might get the pin-out or the BIOS routines?\nAre the routines published someplace convenient?\n\nThanks!\nSilvio", "\n\nThe VRAM SIMMs go in the slots at the back - closest to the power supply.\n\nDavid Gutierrez\ndrg@biomath.mda.uth.tmc.edu", "After I have produced a schematic with PADS-LOGIC, how do I import it into \nPADS-PCB to create a PCB pattern? The only way I've gotten it to work is\nto output a FutureNet netlist, and then import this into PADS-PCB. Is there\nanother way of doing this? I didn't see any information in the instructions\nprovided, but I might have missed something. Any suggestions would be \ngreatly appreciated. Thanks!\n", "Hi guys.\n\nI am scanning in a color image and it looks fine on the screen. When I \nconverted it into PCX,BMP,GIF files so as to get it into MS Windows the colors\ngot much lighter. For example the yellows became white. Any ideas?", "Hi.\n\nOur problem is the following:\n\nWe have to design an RF link for a distance of 250 m. We're using\nstandard RS232 waves (square pulses) as the modulating waves and the \ncarrier wave is sinusoidal. The link has to be bidirectional.\n \nWe would appreciate any advice on the type of modulating techniques\nor antennas that we should use.\n\nPlease internet email us at: 007gjf3@witsvma.wits.ac.za (Nando)\n or 007bww3@witsvma.wits.ac.za (Warren)\n or blumenow@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za (Warren)\n\nThank you very much in advance.", "We are in the process of evaluating X-terminals. This includes running XRemote\nover a serial line.\nI would like to run some X benchmarks to determine comparative performance.\nHas anyone written any such benchmarks, or know of any useful programs on the\nnet ? I heard of a program called \"Xstone\", but I couldn't locate it using\narchie.\n\nPlease reply to afielden@mlsma.att.com, as I don't get to read this newsgroup\nmuch.\nThanks in advance for any help.\n", "I have an opportunity to buy a Radius VideoVision\nboard for about 1/3 of normal street price, which\nI believe is due to a change in the board architecture.\n\nI VAGUELY, MAYBE remember that there was\nsome kind of serious problem with this board, which\ndoes Composite, PAL, SECAM to S video, Composite,\netc coversions. Plus also generating quicktime movies, \netc. MacWeek was generally complimentary about it\nin the April 12th issue.\n\nDoes anyone have any information on this board, such as is it the \none which has been superceeded, what about an \nupgrade if so, etc. I'd be very curious to hear from you.\n\nTHANKS!\n\n--B.W.", "Greetings!!\n\n\tI planning to upgrade my Mac IIsi:\n\n\t\t(1) from the present 5Megs to 17Megs;\n\tand\t(2) add a Math-Coprocessor.\n\n\tTechnology Works, of Austin (Texas) comes quite highly recommended by \nsome Mac magazines. I was just wonderring if anyone could share with me \nanything about Tech Works (both good and bad experiences); or give any advice\nabout other mail-order companies that I may consider.\n\n\tYour reply would be very much appreciated. Thanks in advance.", "To: ashwin@cc.gatech.edu (Ashwin Ram)\n\nAR>Does the \"Thermoscan\" instrument really work? It is supposed to give you a\n\nABSOLUTELY!\nYa don't have to do the other end!\n(it is accurate - but technique is important)\n\ncccbbs!rob.welder@uceng.uc.edu", "Greetings!!\n\n\tI'm planning to upgrade my Mac IIsi:\n\n\t\t(1) from the present 5Megs to 17Megs;\n\tand\t(2) add a Math-Coprocessor.\n\n\tTechnology Works, of Austin (Texas) comes quite highly recommended by \nsome Mac magazines. I was just wonderring if anyone could share with me \nanything about Tech Works (both good and bad experiences); or give any advice\nabout other mail-order companies that I may consider.\n\n\tYour reply would be very much appreciated. Thanks in advance.", "Hi, I'm just getting into PoVRay and I was wondering if there is a graphic\npackage that outputs .POV files. Any help would be appreciated.\nThanks.\n\nLater'ish\nCraig\n", "I thought I'd share a good experience, too. I bought the APS Quantum 240 zero\nfootprint drive in May '92 (back when they still used two separate LEDs on the\nfront panel and the case was metal). While traveling with it (it was in my\nSE/30 Mac bag, on top of the Mac) this past winter, one of the plastic tabs\nholding the front panel on broke, so that the right side of the front panel\nwas coming forward away from the rest of the drive. I lived with this situation\nuntil it became completely intolerable (which more or less coincided with a\nnetwork shutdown at school and a trip out of town I had to take, which gave me\nsome dead time during which to have the drive sent out).\n\nI called APS for an RMA # and got one, with no questions asked about how the\ntab got broken (it was handled a little roughly by airline baggage handlers --\nthough nothing else was damaged [well, except for the internal speaker in my\nmodem, which wasn't that well glued down to begin with] -- yeah, yeah, I'm\nnever flying with my SE/30 again). And when I called back to ask whether I\ncould send it in a little later rather than right away, they had no problem\nwith that -- even when I exceeded the normal valid period for an RMA # by a\nday (they're usually good for 10 days). The front panel was replaced under\nwarranty, and the drive was shipped back quickly (I mailed it first class\ninsured on a Saturday by noon from L.A. to Missouri, and it came back by Fed\nEx by Friday [I don't know exactly what day it came back because I was\ntraveling that week from Wednesday afternoon to Sunday afternoon]).\n\nThe only thing that could've been bad was that the first service rep I talked\nto, in an attempt to prevent jeopardizing my data, suggested that I take the\ndrive mechanism out and send just the case. Unfortunately, I discovered the\nday I was mailing the thing, that would necessitate breaking the little\nseal and thus voiding the warranty! Oh, well.", "[much munching and editing to get to the point]\n\n[Brett D. Sherron-Ferrell writes]\n\n[Mike Timbol responds]\n\nWhile I do not think he is lying, I also feel hesitant to take anybody \"on their\nword\" unless they can attribute a source for thier claims. With all the FUD \nand misinformations and misconceptions and outright lies flying around the \nadvocacy newsgroups, I do not trust any unsubstantiated rumor or claim \n- especially from any employees of IBM's OR MicroSoft, or anyone who seems to\nhave a vested interest.\n\nDivya\n\n-- \nDivya", " [stuff deleted]\n\nThere are two 'problems':\n(1) the BIOS TOD routine which updates the BIOS clock uses only 1 bit\n for day increment, so a second wrapping of the clock past midnight\n will get lost if no one calls the BIOS to read the clock in the\n meantime, and\n(2) the BIOS resets the day wrap indicator on the first 'get date'\n call from ANYBODY (after the wrap indicator has been set). So\n unless the first BIOS 'get date' call after midnight is done by\n the DOS 'kernel' (which is the only part of DOS which knows how to\n increment the date, the day wrap indication is normally lost.\nMy guess is that Kevin's 'menu' system uses BIOS calls to read the\nclock (in order to display the time), and is hence the entity which\ncauses the day wrap indication to get lost. Even if the 'menu' system\n'notices' the day 'wrap' (which I think is indicated by a non-zero\nvalue in AL), there really isn't any particularly good way to tell DOS\nabout it, so that DOS can update the day. The menu system 'should' use\nDOS calls to get the time, which would cause the DOS 'kernel' to do\nthe BIOS call, and the wrap indicator would hence be processed\nproperly. Possibly, though, the 'menu' system can't easily use DOS\ncalls for time, because DOS is not reentrant, and perhaps time\nincrementing ofters occur while the 'menu' system is 'inside' some\nother DOS call.", "\n The one I got only does about 4kb/s in text and 320x200 (VGA/MCGA) mode,\nwhich is almost identical to the other W5186 based cards (ATI 68800\ndoes about 6kb/s). This is weird since the Orchid supposedly should\nbe much faster (and I was told by someone that it can do almost 16 kb/s),\nsince the VGA chip is covered by the Orchid label, I can't really tell\nfor sure if it uses a 5286 chip, but the spec. sheet that comes with\nthe board (no docs!) did say it has 1 meg dram and uses a 5286 chip.\nWinmarks (3.11) is about 4 mil. slower than a Viper (34 vs ~38) using\nstandard palette.\n\n BTW if anyone is insterested, I'm trying to sell a Diamond Viper (2 megs\nvram) for a friend for $300, email if interested (I'm too broke to\ntake it myself).\n\n\n I think it's available in limited quantites. No idea of what VGA\nchip it uses though.\n\n Be very careful with OEM P9000 boards though, the Orchid I got\nfor example only has a readme file on disk that serve as \ndocumentation, and conflicts the hell with my VLB controller \ncard (or maybe it's my motherboard, an A.I.R. 486 VLB)", "\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nNot unreasonable, since the SMARTDRV packaged with DOS 6 is version 4.1.\nMake sure that all your drivers (HIMEM, EMM386, SMARTDRV) are being\nexecuted from the DOS directory.\n\nLoss of the cache provided by SMARTDRV could be your problem; if not,\nI don't know what might cause the startup delay. My testbed for DBLSPACE\n(which has a *very* minimal amount of data on the disk so that I don't\neat up too much time as I install and uninstall DBLSPACE) boots in \nabout 20 seconds from the \"Starting MS-DOS\" herald to the end of the\nAUTOEXEC.BAT execution. I don't have handy a system with a more\nrealistic volume of data to time.", ": They require two separate grounds. One ground goes to the ground pin\n: of the outlet, and the other ground wire is connected to the outlet's\n: mounting tabs (and thus grounds the box and faceplate screw and metal\n: faceplate, if any).\n\nI thought the ground WAS connected to the metal frame on the socket.\n\n-- \n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nChristopher Wolf Electrical Engineer cmwolf@mtu.edu", "Sony CCD-V9 8mm Camcorder\n\nOriginally bought for $1200 now only $399\n\nOriginal Box & All Accesories.", "Anyone seen any press releases or heard any rumors of a cache card\nfor the LCIII, now that it has the full data bus width on the PDS slot?", "\nNow, that indeed is possible. A good friend of mine is running about 1 KW\nPeP from his car. Yes, he does have a second alternator. Yes, he calls\nthe rig an \"electronic brake\" since the engine noticeably slows when the\nkey is down.\n\nMy car, unfortunately, has so much computer junk under the hood that it's\nastonishingly sensitive to RFI. If I key a 2W HT over the engine with\nthe hood open, the car loses timing due to the RF leaking into the \ndistributor pickup. Very poor design.\n\nI will, however, point out that ham radio operators are usually quite willing\nto help when interference is detected. Remember that any interference is\nwasted power; if I put out 1W in the TV band, that's 1W that I am not putting\nout in the band I am trying to transmit on, and 1W can often be the difference\nbetween a nice card hanging on the wall, and nothing. CBers, however, are\nusually not as helpful. Most illegal CBers, however, will stop operation\nwhen you inform them of a problem. The rest of them will stop operation when\nyou inform the local FCC office of the problem (in writing, and giving details\nand addresses).\n", "So far I have only seen pictures of the new ergonomic keyboard,\nbut it seems that the 'b' is placed on the left part after the split.\nHowever, when I learned typing in school some years ago, I was taught\nto write 'b' with my right hand. Is this a difference between Danish\nand American typing, or what???\n\nThanks a lot in advance!\n\n--", "Help !! - I'm looking for a ISA driver card and driver software for a\nLogical Devices Husky programmer (It aint mush good without these)\ncan anyone help with either of these items ?\ncheers\nMike.\n", "Hello,\n\n I have a Diamond Stealth VRAM card (the older version\nwith the DIP switches on the back). I have two problems:\n\n1 ) I've lost the manual!!!\n\n2 ) I have it in a machine with a network card, and\n everything works fine until I run windows, when\n the network connection dies.\n\n (In case it's important, the network card is an\n SMC ArcNet 8-Bit compatable card. It's I/O\n address is 02E0 and it's RAM base address is\n D000. It's also using IRQ 2)\n\n\n I believe there is a file on the Diamond Bboard that\nexplains how to sort this out, but with no manual, I don't\nknow the Bboard number.\n\n If you can, please help me with as many of the following\nas possible:\n\na ) Send me the Diamond BBS number\nb ) E-mail (or post) the DIP switch settings for the card\n (or fax them to me at (412) 521-8668)\nc ) Tell me what I'm doing wrong, so I can magicly get\n everything working.\n\n Any help at all would be much appreciated.\n\n Thanks in advance,", "\nIn X10, the drawing attributes were bundled into drawing\nrequests; that is, the server's drawing model was stateless.\n\nThis caused problems with performance and network traffic,\nso the X11 redesign included the graphic context to codify\nthe drawing state. Most application designers who want to\ndraw things in several different colors create a GC for\neach color during initialization, then pass the GC id in\neach drawing request.", "Can anyone give me some information, please ...\n\nI need (probably) to write one or more new Motif widgets on the HP-UX\nplatform. Do I need the Motif private header files and source,\nor can I make do with the public headers that are provided?\n\"Motif\" includes Xt in this context.\n\nOne widget is a multi-column list (which lots of people have\nalready written, I am sure), and would therefore be probably be\na subclass of List rather than something simple like an Xt class.\nIs this more difficult (in principle, not lines of code)?\n\nAlternatively, if anyone has a multi-column list widget they\ncould sell me, this might save me from having to write one!\nDoes it by any chance exist in Motif 1.2 already (I do not\nyet have the spec)?\n\nAnswers appreciated,\n\nNicholas.", "To all hardware and firmware gurus:\n\nMy current home project is to build a huge paddle keyboard for a \nphysically handicapped relative of mine. My goal is for this keyboard\nto look exactly like an AT sytle keyboard to its host system.\nThis will be a highly endowed keyboard with a Little PCL from Z World\nat its heart. The only thing I lack is detailed information on the\nhardware signaling that the 486 (with Windows 3.1 and DOS 5.0) will be \nexpecting. My project is independant of Windows, my hope is that some of\nyou fellow Window's users/programmers will recognize what I need and be \nwilling to point me in the right direction. \n\nI have The Winn L. Rosch Hardware Bible (2nd edition). The HB gives\nmost (if not all) of the information I will need concerning scan codes \nand even a wire diagram for the PS/2 style connector I will need, but it \nleaves a number of important questions unanswered.\n1. Is it synchronous or asynchronous serial communication? I'm\n guessing synchronous since the host is providing a clock. In either\n event, how is the data framed?\n2. Is it half-duplex or truly one way? I'm guessing half-duplex\n since the host can turn LEDs on and off.\n3. Are there any chipsets available for communicating with the \"AT\n keyboard standard\" (other than by cannibalizing a real keyboard)?\n\nIf anyone knows of a book or article (or any other written source of\ninformation) on the above, please advise me at gamet@erg.sri.com.\nWhatever I do it must be safe for I cannot afford to replace the 486 in\nthe event of a booboo.\n\nThank you for your time.\nDanke fuer Ihre Zeit.", ": >:\tI'd really like to see such a thing developed so that interactive\n: >:internet talk radio could be done. Ideally, though, it should be a general\n: >:purpose device. It should be a general purpose enough device that nobody\n: >:should be able to balk at its widespread use. Obviously, to make it easy\n: >:for homebrewers, it should use pretty common hardware.\n: \n: Why don't we move down even further toward the masses by setting this\n: up on an IBM PC clone(probably needs to be a 386 or a 486) with a \n: sound blaster and a V.32bis modem. Those components are very widely\n\n\tI concur for a PC to PC version. BUT for a interactive thing like\ninternet talk radio?!?! It makes me cringe at the amount of hogging such\na thing would do to the bandwidth of the internet. I mean 15 meg files getting\nfloated around for internet talk radio is bad enough. I have a solution; use\nthe phone system; take your electronics and use them on point to point \nconversations through the phone and thats it. If you need to tell someone \nsomething secret and very important wouldn't it make more sense to write it \nout concisely? And if it's just a quick \"YO\" then use a code word and spend \nyour twenty cents.\n\tThose good ol analog systems like Shortwave, Telephones, and TV's have\na use don't gunk up a nice digital packet network trying to emulate them!", "Hi,\nI am one those uncles that try to please my nephews whenever possible,\nso.. they have asked me to find them some Nitendo games, no, it is\nnot for the super nitendo.. it is for whatever model came prior to\nthat.\n\nSince they are overseas, I will first ask them if they already have the\ngames you would have to offer me. Please send me a list, or whatever and\nthe price you are asking so I can send to my nephews and find out what\nthey have and what they want.. so bare with me, I will respond, but it\nwill take me a while. \n\nThanks,\nWalter\nwalter@psg.com\n\n\nPlease respond directly.\n", "\n\nSorry Geoff,\n\nAgree solder mask is green, but in the old days we didn't have wave soldering\nmachines (which are another topic again). I had a crew of a dozen ladies which\ncould stuff and hand solder a board like lightning!\n\nBoard under the mask was the original query.\n\nBTW cheap inport electronic devices (mainly from 3rd world countries) are done\nwith brown pheonolic boards. Is seems the electronics industry has discovered\nthe cheap labor pools. Workers are paid by the board to assemble circuits at\nhome. They are very obviously hand soldered. Quite a few tape recorders are\nbeing brought into Canada from Red China. In China there is no warranty for\nthe equipment other than if you plug it in and it works it's yours. One of my\nco-workers spent a year there and he said the failure rate out of the box was\nalmost 50%.\n\nAlso, the original method for making printed with conductive ink on a regular\nprinting press. An old lithographer friend had a press for this. After the\netching method was developed he used the press to print wood grain on doors.\n-- \n73, Tom\n================================================================================\nTom Wagner, Audio Visual Technician. Malaspina College Nanaimo British Columbia\n(604)753-3245, Loc 2230 Fax:755-8742 Callsign:VE7GDA Weapon:.45 Kentucky Rifle\nSnail mail to: Site Q4, C2. RR#4, Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada, V9R 5X9 ", "I have an old Mac Plus. A couple of years ago I bought a shiney new lc.\nIt came with apple's new keyboard (with abd ports). i replaced it with\na mac-pro-plus extended keyboard (which i thoroughly enjoy, thank you\nvery much).\n \nwell, i have this extra keyboard which i would like to use on the plus\nbut there's a little problem. the plus uses an rj-11 jack for keyboard\ninput and the new keyboards don't. i got an extra adb cable from my\nlocal apple dealer (they're such nice people), but they couldn't tell\nme the order of the wires.\n \nthere are four wires in the adb cables: black, white, red, tan. I know\none's a ground, one gets the serial signal, one supplies 5 volts, and\ni forgot what the fourth one does. anyway, if you hook them up wrong\nyou'll fry a board and i don't want to do .\n \nif any brave souls out there have done this before, please e-mail your\nexperience directly to me. i would greatly appreciate it especially\nsince apple's original keyboard is not . . . ergonomically correct.\n \nbtw, i did take apart my new keyboard to see if i could find the\ncorrelation between the wires for the rj-11 jack and the adb since it\nhas both, but no such luck (the connections are soldered inside of\nlittle boxes). Oh, well . . .", "Hey, can someone clue me in on these and other weird types of amplifiers? Just\na brief intro to the concepts behind these would be cool. I have the clues \non type A, B, and AB already and stuff, but these other ones are mentioned \noccasionally and I dont know what they do. I think type D is like a PWM scheme\nor something. Thanx in advanced.\n", "Dynakit PAS-2x for sale\r\n \r\n It's a pure tube pre-amp, using two 12AX7s in phono stage and also \r\n two 12AX7s in line stage. One 12x4 is used in power supply.\r\n\r\n clean in and out\r\n\r\n neat workmanship\r\n\r\n works fine with good sound\r\n\r\n owner's manuel\r\n\r\n\r", "What's the difference between a 16550 UART and a 16550A UART? Thanks!\n", "Just wanted to ask a question. I bought a hard disk drive second-hand\nthe other day, and I opened the packaging up and saw that there was a small\nsticker on the drive that had a little red apple with a bite taken out of it.\nIt's socket did not look the same as my existing hard disk that is in my\ncomputer already (it has fifty little pins sticking out from it instead of\nthe 39 that is sticking out of my old hard disk.\nI don't know if disk drives for the Apple (or Mac) are different from ones\nused in AT clones, so could someone tell me if I could use this hard disk\non my AT clone? If not, what did I just purchase? It's a Quantum Prodrive.\nIt's dated 1988 on the green board. Will I need a controller/add-in card?\nAll the help is much appreciated. Thanks! :)\n", "\tI'm looking for graphics (clipart, bmp, gif...) of anything relating to ophthalmology (I know it's a weird request). Anything such as eyeglasses, \ncontact lenses, eyes...would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.\n", "I have two brand new Dayna Etherprint Adapters (10baset) for sale.\nThey convert ethertalk to localtalk. This is useful when wanting to\nhook up a localtalk network printer to a ethertalk(10baset) network.\nThey sell for $350 each in Mac Warehouse. Will take $100 each.\nGuaranteed.\n\nemail response to atg@virginia.edu", "\nWell I can buy a bigger and more powerful server machine because of the \nsignificant drop in price year after year. The link I want to use \nthough (ISDN 64K) is costly and the bandwidth limited. That's why my\ninterest lies in seeing if such a link can be used and see what traffic \ngoes through it.\n\n\n\nHmmm. Has anyone at your centre monitored the traffic at all? Are you\nrunning any standard MS-Windows programs like Word ? What sort of \npackets go blazing through? What size link do you have (2Mb or 10Mb ?).\nWhat is the average traffic flow going through your network or do you\nhave few high peaks and then many low points?\n\n\n\nWhat do you mean by network things? I vision using MS Windows and other\nWindows applications over the network were the processes are running on\nthe server and all I am getting are the displays. I am wondering how \ngood is the X and subsequently DV/X protocol in transferring these \nimages with X-calls and displaying them on a client's machine.\n\n\n\n\n\n", "\nThe front covers should be available from Sony. Check with a local car\nstereo shop. You will probably (definitely) have to provide the units \nserial number and hopefully you had registered the warranty card. I \ndon't know the cost, but replacements have to be available to people\nwho damage the face cover, so it stands to reason that it can be replaced.\n\nAs to deterring theft:\n\nWhen I worked for a stereo shop, we referred the customer to a Sony 800\nnumber. We would not sell the face, nor did we have them available. Most\npeople who came in asking for the face cover (or a pullout sleave for that\nmatter) would look very disheartened to find that they acquired a deck\nthey couldn't use. If theft occurs with these decks, notify Sony. Serial\nnumbers do catch theives.", "I writing a program that uses the parallel port. My problem is that I need to\ngenerate an interrupt when the ack line is pulsed. I can get this to occur \nonce, but am unable to generate succesive interrupts.\n\nCan someone suggest how I may resolve this problem.", "\nThere was a very useful article in one of the 1989 issues of\nTransactions On Graphics. I believe Maureen Stone was one of\nthe authors. Sorry not to be more specific. I don't have the\nreference here with me.\n\nThe article actually was more general than this, giving a way to decide\nwhether a given (cubic) Bezier curve contains cusps, intersection points\nor whatever wierdness. The same treatment is also available in SIGGRAPH 89\ncourse notes for the course called \"Math for Siggraph\" or something like\nthat.\n", "I've got 2 foot switches for sale. They appear to be designed\nfor studio use (ie: they're very well built) - 1\" in diameter, 6'\ncord. I'd like $15, but I'd also like to sell them, so make me an\noffer.\n\n\tAlso I just bought a new Ibanez guitar so I need to sell one\nof my others. It's a Kramer with passive EMG pickups (2 single, one\ndouble). These pickups sound GREAT and are whisper-quiet. I'd like\nto get $250 for it.\n\n-Jason", "\n\n\n\n\nHey, sounds great. Does that mean that W4WG works with ODI? I thought it \nuses NDIS. \n \nMy problem is that Lan Workplace with all its drivers uses up most of my \nUMBs, so I'd hate to have to load many more drivers to make W4WG work \nalong. \n \nI read in a German computer magazine that TCP/IP support for W4WG is just \naround the corner. Anybody have any news about this? \n \nRegards, Richard \n", "Hello Netters\n\n\tI recenlty aquired enough money to purchase a laser printer.\nThe other day, I bought the COMPUTER SHOPPER mag. I was looking through\nprinter review section and noticed the WINPRINTER800. The machine is \nincredibly low priced for all the features it has \n\n\t\t\t800 dpi!\n\t\t\t8Meg RAM\n\t\t\tPostscript compatable\n\t\t\tenvelope printing\n\nMy question is does anyone have one of these or know why the price is so\ncheap? I would appricaiate it if someone would pass on their knowledge\non this subject. Thanks alot!\n\n\t\t\t\t\tDave\n------------------------------\nDonuts are a girls best friend", "Heya all, I've got a pair of Oakley forsale \nThere are frogskins, with aurborn red. THere are no\nscratches and only used them once or twice last summer.\nI'm looking for about 25-30 dollars but please give me a bid.\n\nI'm am looking for the following items\n\nA BUBBLE JET PRINTER that works and is el cheapo...\n\ti was looking for a cannon BJ-5 but if u have a bubble jet\nto sell please tell me. I'm looking to spend about $100 or so.\n\nA sound cards (sound blaster compatible). Again I'm looking fer something\ncheap, such as $50 or so dollars.\n\nthanks\nwhirley", "The title says it all...If you have some cheap used \nGAMEBOY or TG-16 (2 Player or more) Games, Please\nemail me all offers...", "Hi,\n\n\nAnyone has a converter from BMP to any format that xview or xv can\n\nhandle? This converter must run Unix.. I looked at the FAQ and downloaded\nseveral packages but had no luck... thanks in advance.\n\ned", "Please could someone in the US give me the current street \nprices on the following, with and without any relevant taxes:\n\n 8 Mb 72 pin SIMM\n16 Mb 72 pin SIMM (both for Mac LC III)\n\nAre any tax refunds possible if they are to be exported\nto the UK? Can you recommend a reliable supplier?", "I'm trying to find some information on accelerator boards for the SE. Has\nanyone used any in the past, especially those from Extreme Systems, Novy or\nMacProducts? I'm looking for a board that will support extended video,\nespecially Radius's two-page monitor. Has anyone used Connectix Virtual in\nconjunction with their board? Any software snafus? Are there any stats\nanywhere on the speed difference between a board with an FPU and one\nwithout? Please send mail directly to me. Thanks.", "\n\n\nMarc is not spoofing. Try it yourself. At least, the commands work\nexactly as he described (i.e. they do not work.)\n\n- Josh.\n\n", "\nYou can add sysedit (& regedit) to a program group... they are Windows\nprograms. \n\nIs it possible to get it to load other *.ini files ????\n\n\n", "Hello,\n\n I am considering buying the Hummingbird X-Windows software for a MS-Windows\n3.1 PC (386-40MHZ, NE2000 Ethernet board). Would anyone tell me if they\nare using this package in a similar environment and if they are happy with\nit? I will be connecting to Sun SparcStation 10 running Sun OS 4.1.3.\n\nThanks very much,", "A bunch of things i have too many of :\nchips :\ntype\t new/pull price desc\nAD1856\t N\t$3.50\t16 bit serial D/A converter smt like PCM56\nTMS32020GBL P\t$12.00\tTI DSP chip\nMC68020RC25 P \t$12.00\tMake your own Mac ????\nZ08613/08STD N\t$12.00\tPiggyback emulator for Z8 family\nD77P20\t P\t$12.00\tNEC's EPROM version DSP chip\nMK38P73\t P\t$25.00\tyou gotta really want 'em !\nLM213\t N\t$30.00 \tHitachi 256*64 bitmapped display\nlots of others including 22V10, C22V10, 16L8,16R8\nother stuff includes :\nCipher tape drives\t\t\t\t$10.00 \nData I/O device programmer\t$60.00\tdont go !\nApple Laserwriter\t\t\t\t$550.00\ta beauty-only 8k page\nMac 800k int drives\t\t\t$40.00", "I have a ST138 RLL hard drive and I have just got another 32M hard\ndrive. The controller in my machine is a WD-1002-27X. Can a kind\nsoul please mail me or tell me how to get jumper settings for that\nboard?\n\nI really appreciate this. Thanks in advance.\n\nJerry\n-- ", "Can any Apollo GURUS out there let me know of their experiences building MIT X11R5,\nwith or without GCC 2.3.3. In particular, is there anything I should watch out for.\n\nThanks in advance", "Hi,\nhas anyone more info about the XGA-2 chipset?\nHW-funcs, TrueColor, Resolutions,...\nAny boards with XGA-2 out yet?\n\nthanks\nRainer\n\n-- \nRainer Leberle\t rleberle@sparc2.cstp.umkc.edu\nUniversity of Kansas City, MO ", "The si has a single expansion slot, that can be either PDS or Nubus, but not\nboth together. The card lies parallel to and above the motherboard & HD and\nrequires an adaptor slot to do this. There are Nubus and PDS adaptort cards.\nThus, what kind of slots you have depends on what kind of adapter card you\nhave. With the exception of the Radius rocket, all NuBus cards I know of work\nin the si. PDS slots and thus cards are Mac specific, thus not all PDS cards\nwork in all Macs. ", "I have finally decided to update my SE :-)).\nI am planning on buying a Centris 610-8/230 CD.\nNow, what monitor should I get? Here are a few\nguidelines:\n\tMy wife uses PageMaker occasionally, I use Excel sometimes\n\tand I do alot of Telecommuting from home to work. We both\n\tdo Word processing. Greater than 14 inches.\n\nI have looked at the Radius Color Pivot. This can be bought for\nunder $1000. I have heard good things about the E-Machines T-16,\nthe older model not the new T-16 II. How about the Super Mac 17T?\nThese both can be had for a little over $1000. Any others??", "Does anyone out there know of a site that might have\na 2-D spline fit routine useful for interpolation?\n\nthanks for any help,\nCraig Morioka", "\n\nWell, it all depends on the motherboard implimentation.\n\nI'm sure someone will make a vlb motherboard that takes 1x9\nsimms and uses a pentium processor. I'm also sure that there \nwill be some motherboards that won't.", "KM> Is the 486DX3/99 anything more than a myth? I haven't heard of it\nKM>from any source that I trust, and I sure don't see any ads for DX3/99\nKM>machines in Computer Shopper. Intel is pretty busy with the Pentium\nKM>right now; I can't seem them introducing their own competition.\n\nI heard the rumor as well, but the story differed. Intel was not coming \nout with the tripling clock 486, a clone from IBM was. I got this rumor \nfrom a pretty good source ( Has designs computer equipment, and hav never \nbeen wrong let, but there is a first time for everything. )\n\n... I can just hear that rumor-mill turning now ...\n\n-rdd\n\n---\n . WinQwk 2.0b#0 . Unregistered Evaluation Copy\n * KMail 2.95d W-NET HQ, hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us, +1 313 663 4173 or 3959\n ", "I am trying to write an image display program that uses\nthe MIT shared memory extension. The shared memory segment\ngets allocated and attached to the process with no problem.\nBut the program crashes at the first call to XShmPutImage,\nwith the following message:\n\nX Error of failed request: BadShmSeg (invalid shared segment parameter)\n Major opcode of failed request: 133 (MIT-SHM)\n Minor opcode of failed request: 3 (X_ShmPutImage)\n Segment id in failed request 0x0\n Serial number of failed request: 741\n Current serial number in output stream: 742\n\nLike I said, I did error checking on all the calls to shmget\nand shmat that are necessary to create the shared memory\nsegment, as well as checking XShmAttach. There are no\nproblems.\n\nIf anybody has had the same problem or has used MIT-SHM without\nhaving the same problem, please let me know.\n\nBy the way, I am running OpenWindows 3.0 on a Sun Sparc2.", "====================================================\n H H A RRRRR RRRRR IIIII SSSS\n H H A A R R R R I S \n HHHHHH AAAAA RRRRR RRRRR I SSSS\n H H A A R R R R I S \n H H A A R R R R IIIII SSSS \n ====================================================\n\n\nHarris Semiconductor now has AnswerFAX. AnswerFAX is on-line 24 hours\na day, 7 days a week, so you can instantly receive datasheets and \napplication notes by using your touch-tone telephone and FAX machine.\nThe number to call is (407) 724-3937. (It is not set up to do international\ncalls at this time.)\n\nThe general decision tree for the AnswerFAX is as follows, the numbers are\nthe available selections:\n\n\n Welcome to Harris Semiconductors AnswerFAX\n |\n ----------------------------------------\n | |\n 1 2\n | |\n Select 1 if you Select 2 for an\n are familiar with explanation of\n AnswerFAX. AnswerFAX\n | |\n |--------------------------------------|\n |\n | \n |\n --------------------------------\n | |\n 1 2\n | |\n Select 1 to order Select 2 for a\n a document (the list of catalogs:\n document list is 1 New Products\n in the catalogs, 2 Linear Products\n get them first) 3 Data Acquisition Products\n | 4 Digital Signal Processing Products\n | 5 Discrete Power and Intelligent\n | Power Products\n | 9 Application Notes\n | |\n | |\n Select appropriate document Select Appropriate Catalog\n | |\n | |\n Do you want to order Do you want to order\n anything else? If yes, anything else? If yes,\n you will be taken back you will be taken back \n to the selection decision. to the selection decision.\n | |\n | |\n --------------------------------\n |\n |\n |\n What is phone number\n for your FAX?\n |\n |\n What is your name?\n (request the instructions)\n |\n |\n END \n\n\n\nBill Werner\n", "I am posting for my brother, but please reply to this account and I will\nforward the messages.\n\nThe Powerbook is in excellent shape, five months old, and was purchased abroad.\n(I haven't seen it)\n\nFor details, send e-mail. ", "I am looking for some bar code fonts especially code 3 of 9. Did anybody\nknow any ftp sites or BBS that I can download these types of fonts? \nPlease email to me if you have any info. Thanks!\n", ": I have a 486DX-33 computer with a SoundBlaster 1.0 card. I'm running\n: Microsoft Windows v3.1. I have the SB driver set up properly to play\n: normal sounds (.WAV files, etc.). I want to play midi files through the\n: Media Player that is included with windows. I know I have to set up the\n: patch maps or something in the MIDI-Mapper in the Control Panel. I KNOW\n: NOTHING ABOUT MIDI. (This is to be the way I'll get my feet wet.)\n\n: How do I set up Windows so that I can play MIDI files?\nIf you install the Soundblaster windows drivers correctly, and have\nthe latest drivers, the media player should be setup to play files\nauthored to Microsoft's Multimedia midi authoring standard (General\nMidi), see the section in the back of the Voyetra manual in the\nSoundblaster midi upgrade kit.\nYou'll find that midi files exist with all kinds of different\nmappings, so don't expect them to always sound correct without using\nsome kind of midi file editor, such as Voyetra's Sequencer Plus.", "RADIOSITY SOURCES WANTED !!!\n============================\n\nWhen I read the comp.graphics group, I never found something about \nradiosity. Is there anybody interested in out there? I would be glad \nto hear from somebody.\nI am looking for source-code for the radiosity-method. I have already\nread common literature, e. g.Foley ... . I think little examples could \nhelp me to understand how radiosity works. Common languages ( C, C++, \nPascal) prefered.\nI hope you will help me!", "Is there any third party video ram adapter for vewing 24 bit color on LCII?\nI heard that Apple is selling it aroung 160$.\nPlease e-mail me.\nThanks.\nYoung\nyouyj@mace.cc.purdue.edu\n\n", "\nI've used that reference, and found that I needed to go to their\noriginal tech report:\n\n\tMaureen Stone and Tony DeRose,\n\t\"Characterizing Cubic Bezier Curves\"\n\tXerox EDL-88-8, December 1988\n\nThis report can be obtained for free from:\nXerox Corporation\nPalo Alto Research Center\n3333 Coyote Hill Road\nPalo Alto, California 94303\n+1-415-494-4440\n\nThe TOG paper was good, but this tech report had more interesting details ;-)", "{Send follow ups to comp.sys.mac.advocacy. Sorry about the header but the \nPnews here does not let one easily change the headers and I gave up after a \nyear of trying. This sheet is also available by FTP on sumex-aim.stanford.edu \n(36.44.0.6) in the info-mac/report as mac-ibm-compare177.txt.}\nMac & IBM Info-Version 1.7.7\n\nThe reason for this general data sheet is to consolidate and condense the \ninformation out there, so that people in both camps can be clear and accurate \nabout what they are saying about their machines. Since computer technology \nis always changing there are always going to be points in which the sheet will \nbe lacking or incorrect on information. So, please just don't say the sheet \nis incomplete or incorrect but also give me clear and concise information to \nmake the needed corrections. All prices are in US dollars.\nTo keep this data sheet organized please provide, if possible, article \ncitations for the information provided or corrected and keep the opinions to \na minimum. As this is a general data sheet, keep the info provided simple so \nI can understand what is being talked about and can explain it to others. \nFinally, keep the information relevant to the section corrected {For example, \nOS code in ROM is software contained in hardware, so no more of the 'but it \nis supported in OS disk software' data for the hardware section, please}. \nThank you.\nNote: for proper reading off line this document should be in 9 point Monaco.\n\nSpecial thanks to ANDREW@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu (Chihuahua Charlie), \nandrew@frip.wv.tek.com (Andrew Klossner), bell-peter@YALE.EDU (Peter Bell), \nbcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman), cj00+@andrew.cmu.edu (Carl B Jabido), d88-\njwa@nada.kth.se (Jon Wtte) ephraim@Think.COM (Ephraim Vishniac), \nfj05+@andrew.cmu.edu (Faisal Nameer Jawdat), gsidler@cafe.eecs.nwu.edu \n(Gabriel Sidler), julian@deepthnk.kiwi.gen.nz (Julian Harris), \nErick.Krueger@um.cc.umich.edu, krueger@engin.umich.edu, \nmatt@wardsgi.med.yale.edu (Matt Healy), mark@bilpin.co.uk (Mark Allerton), \njokim@jarthur.claremont.edu (John H. Kim), mem@jhufos.pha.jhu.edu (Mel \nMartinez), nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Nan Zou), pwagner%us.oracle.com, \ns_fuller@iastate.edu, strobl@gmd.de (Wolfgang Strobl), \njkirvin@pafosu1.hq.af.mil, phill@ichips.intel.com, \nshaikha@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu, sxjcb@orca.alaska.edu (Jay C. Beavers), Lewis \nKawecki@novell.com, lamont@catfish16.rtsg.mot.com (Bradley Lamont), \ncerro@mbcl.rutgers.edu (\"Cerro, Joseph A\"), mpark@utmem1.utmem.edu (Mel Park), \nlogullo@applelink.apple.com (Jeff Logullo), zrai02@hou.amoco.com (Robert \nIrlbeck), and mikew@apple.com for providing some of the information that made \nthis list possible.\n Contents\nCPUs\nHardware\n Monitor support\n Expansion\nOperating system\n OS Number Crunching\nNetworking & Printing\n\nThe CPUs\n Note: I am only showing Motorola & Intel CPUs used in Mac and most IBM/PC \nclone machines. For example, since Apple never used the Motorola 68008 and \n68010 in the Mac these chips are not listed. Years only appear with dead CPUs \nand indicate first to last year used as a CPU.\nCache note: both IBM and Mac use caches external to the CPUs. These external \ncaches increase the speed of the CPU but are not a part of it. In most of \nthe present Macs there are external caches built-in while with IBM they are \noptional {Though machines are generally sold with them installed}. Since \nthere are many different external caches {CPU-Mac and IBM; SCSI, video, disk \nand static RAM-Mac}, each having a different effect on CPU performance, and \nthey are machine {32KB static RAM cache in IIci, IIfx, and IIvx}, seller \n{cache card installed in some IIcis} or expansion {IIci cache cards go up to \n128KB} dependent, I have decided to leave them out of the list.\nNote: ALU is industry's de-facto standard for CPU bit classification.\nIBM ALU Registers External CPU Features/\nCPU bus address cache Notes\n8088(6) 16 16 8 (16) 20 none {1981-9} {198?-9}\n80186 16 16 16 20 none {198?-9?} segmenting\n80286 16 16 16 24 none 80186 + Protected Mode\n80386 32 32 32 32 none MMU & 32-bit Protected Mode \n486sx 32 32 32 32 one 8K 80486 - FPU\n80486 32 32 32 32 one 8K 80386 & FPU\n486dx2 32 32 32 32 one 8K doubled internal clock rate*\n486dx3 being demoed. 20/60 MHz, 25/75 MHz, and 33/99 MHz planned.\nPentium 32 32 64 32 16K code, CISC chip with RISC-like \n 5 16K data features, 2-issue superscalar, \n [P 5] 386 Write-Back, 64-bit\n FPU path, pipelining; Speed:\n SPECint92: 64.5; SPECfp92:\n 56.9**\n\n386sx: 386 chip with 32-bit internal/16-bit external architecture.\n286 and 386sx chips can address to 16MB maximum RAM.\n386sl: low power(3.3V) 386sx with built-in power management. Used mainly on \nlaptops.\n386slc: IBM 5V 386sx with a 16k on-chip cache added (John H. Kim). As far as \nJohn H. Kim knows it is only used on IBM models.\n486slc: Neither of two chips that have this name have a FPU. Cyrix: basically \n486sx in 386sx socket with 1k cache and improved integer math speed. IBM: \nequivalent to the 486sx except it has a 16k on-chip cache.\n\n* ex. for 486dx2/50, chip runs 50 MHz rest of machine runs at 25 MHz.\n***(PC Week 04/12/93; PC Mag 4/27/93:138) \"The latest in a line of CISC chips\" \n(PC Mag 4/27/93:110) Samples released March 22, 1993, but machines will not \nbe announced until at least May 1993 (PC Week 2/08/93). $1000 a CPU; systems \n$5000 and up (PC Mag 4/27/93:110). \n\nMac ALU Registers External CPU Features/\nCPU bus address cache* Notes\n68000 16 32 16 24 none {1984-1993} 16MB limit**\n68020 32 32 32 32 256 code {1987-1992} parallel processing\n68030 32 32 32 32 two 256 68020 + MMU, 16K burst mode\n68LC040 32 32 32 32 two 4K 68040 - FPU\n68040 32 32 32 32 two 4K MMU, FPU, pipelining, doubled \n internal clock rate***\n68050\tdevelopment discontinued in favor of 68060\n68060 32 32 32 32 Branch 68040 + a better FPU, \n target superscaler pipelining, cache \n line bursts, equivalent \n capabilities & speeds to \n Pentium*#\n\n*includes data and instruction {code} caches. The 68030, 68LC040, & 68040 \nhave built-in caches for both.\n**68000 Mac designs created a 4MB limit.\n***The 040 has 2 clocks, an internal processor clock [PCLK] that is 2x freq of \nexternal bus clock [BCLK] which is the one used to rate the chips \n(Bradley Lamont; Motorola 68040 data book). Some compilers produce programs \nsensitive to the PCLK and so they act as if the 68040 was a clock doubler \nchip, but this very compiler and program dependent. Compliers maybe written \nto allow programs to take consitant advantage of the 68040's PCLK in the \nfuture. As it is now, studies such as one in a Byte article {which showed \n040/25 ~486/50 and roughly ~486dx2/50} are very dependent on the machine, OS, \nand programs tested and as such are not representative of general performance.\n*#Motorola claims (PC Week 09/07/92; 09/14/92).\n\nAs the PowerPCs are to be in both IBM and Mac machines I have listed them \nseparately to eliminate redundancy. They are Motorola CPU RISC chips.\n\nPowerPC ALU Registers External CPU Features/\nCPU bus address cache Notes\nMC98601 32 32 32 int 64 32K Speed: SPECint92: 50; \n [601] 32 fp combined SPECfp92: 80*\n I/D \nMC98603: low power MC98601 for desktop & portable systems. Out by end of 1993.\n [603]\nMC98604: high performance MC98601 for high end machines. Out by 1st Q 1994.\n [604]\nMC98620 64 64 32 int 64 32K Out by mid 1994.\n [620] 32 fp combined \n I/D \n\n*(PC Week 04/12/93; PC Mag 4/27/93:138). Select venders were sent sample \nMC98601 chips by Motorola 2/93 (PC Week 2/08/93), and some NuBus boards \ncontaining early samples of PowerPC 601 have been given to Apple's \"A-list\" \ndevelopers (PC Week 12/7/92; MacWeek 12/14/92). MC98601/50MHz-$280;\nMC98601/66MHz-$374 (PC Week 4/12/93). Systems: ~$3500 with ~$2000 versions\nout by mid 1994 (PC Week 4/12/93).\n\nCPUs Comparison List\nAs a general rule of thumb Motorola chips are faster than Intel chips at the \nsame frequency {030/25 ~= 386/33; 040/25 ~= 486dx/50}, but Intel has chips at \nhigher frequencies than Motorola, so this evens out. The Macintosh Bible 4th \ned. supports the comparisons between Intel and Motorola chips for the 68020 \nand above.\n\n<=80186 ~ 68000 {16-bit vs 16/24/32-bit chip [data path/address \nlines/data & address registers]. The 4MB limit on the 68000 Macs brings it \ndown to the 80186 and lower chips, otherwise it would compare to the 80286.}\n\n286 ~ 68020 {hardware segmenting vs. 68020's 32-bit ALU and these chips \ncome have no usable built-in MMU unlike their successors [80386, 68030]. The \nhardware segmenting's protected mode is used by OS/2 1.0 => and Windows 3.X. \nThe use of the hardware segmenting and their 16-bit nature put the 286 between \nthe 60000 and 68030 in features and the LC's 16-bit data path strenghthens the \n286 ~ 68020 comparison.}\n\n386 ~ 68030 {Two 32-bit chips with MMUs, and protected memory. A/UX 3.0 \nis at present the only Mac OS to use the 68030's protected memory feature for \napps. System 7.x uses this feature to protect a RAM disk created by the \nMemory control panel but this is supported only on Powerbooks and Quadras. \nThe Color Classic and LCII 16-bit hardware data paths makes the 68030s in them \ncomparative to 386sxs.}\n\n486sx ~ 68LC040 {same as 486 and 68040 without the FPU; used as a low cost \nsolution for people who do not need the FPU. Only with programs sensitive to \nPCLK & pipelining does the 68LC040 behave like 486dx2 - FPU or a '486dx2sx'.}\n\n486 ~ 68040 {two 32-bit microprocessors with built-in FPU, MMU, 8K \ninternal cache (which is implemented as two 4K caches in the 68040 and one in \nthe 486). Only with programs sensitive to PCLK & pipelining does the 68040 \nbehave like a 486dx2.}\n\nPentium ~ 68060 {Both are planned to be superscalar but both have heat \nproblems. These chips may flounder against the cheaper (PC Week 3/08/93; \n4/12/93; PC Mag 4/27/93:110), earlier released (PC Week 12/7/92; MacWeek \n12/14/92; PC Week 2/08/93), less leat producing {160 degrees F for Pentium\n(PC Mag 4/27/93:118)}, and partly ported to PowerPC chips.} \n\nPowerPC = PowerPC {This CPU line is planned to run programs from DOS, \nWindows 3.x, OS/2 and Mac OS on top of PowerOpen-A/UX 4.0 [UNIX] and later \nPink [Taligent OS] by using emulators or, if necessary, the OSes themselves in \na 'shell' a.k. how SoftPC or OS/2 does DOS.}\n\nHardware \n{In an effort to remove the 'reconfiguring the system almost every time you \nadd something' requirement for add-in cards, drivers, video, and operating \nsystems in the IBM world, Intel, Microsoft and 12 other hardware and software \ndevelopers are working out 'plug and play' standards (PC Week 03/08/93).}\nColor Support/Display\n Mac: 30.24 MHz Pixel Clock standard. All present Macs support the use of \n32-bit color through 32-bit color QuickDraw in ROM. 32-bit color QuickDraw \nallows an almost transparent capability to display and edit X-bit images in Y-\nbit color and retain ALL the colors of Y-bit color [Where X and Y \nindependently are 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, or 32] regardless of monitor resolution {63 \ndpi [12\" color] to 94 dpi [PaletteBook]} or monitor type {including \nautosynchronous VGA, MCGA and SVGA monitors with ranges including 66.7 hz \nvertically and 35 kHz horizontally and only a hardware video adaptor (MacUser \nAug 1992: 158-176). Older machines that supported color {SE/30, II, IIX, and \nIIcx} had only 8-bit color in ROM and needed a software patch to use 32-bit \ncolor (MacUser Special 1993:28-29). \nTo keep costs down and speed up most Macs have only 8 or 16 bit display \ncapability built-in, but most of those can be expanded to display 24-bit \ncolor. Presently QuickDraw is optimized for 72 dpi display; QuickDraw QX \nwill change this.\nIn addition, QuickDraw allows, in Macs with a NuBus slot, more then one \nmonitor to be used in any combination, from two monitors showing the same \nthing to multiple monitors acting as one large large monitor with any degree \nof overlap of the pictures.\nVRAM: Video RAM. Standard for present non-PowerBook Mac's handling of \n built-in video {from a 32-bit color palette}. VRAM provided runs a 8-bit\n color 640x480 display; expandable to 16-bit color or a 8-bit 832x624 display. \nSound output: Standard in all Macs since the 128K. Stereo sound became \n standard with the SE/30.\n\nIBM: Even though PCs have ROM BIOS definitions of how the operating system \ninteracts with the video hardware (Nan Zou), the use of drivers bypassing \nBIOS, video hareware inconsitancies {see Super VGA below} and nonstanderzation\nof clone BIOS have left resolution of video display hardware, OS and program \ninteraction up to the OS and video hardware in question (Faisal Nameer \nJawdat). In addition, IBM and clone makers never bothered to provide a \nstandard hardware mechanism for software to determine what display mode is \nactually present (Matt Healy) nor a standardized screen-drawing toolbox {like \nMac's QD}. As a result the OS must be very well written to detect some modes, \nespecially with some third party cards or to use them consitantly {At present \nthings are so dependent on the interaction of the program, OS, print driver \nand monitor card that editing 32-bit pictures regardless of color mode, OS, \nand monitor type/card combination as one can do on the Mac is impossible with \nan IBM. For example, one cannot edit a 32-bit color picture done on a OS/2 \n486 with a SVGA monitor on a 386 with VGA {18-bit color palette} and DOS 5.0 \nand still have ALL the colors one started out with}.\nLater IBM machines will have integrated graphics accelerators, faster \nprocessors, and modular upgradeability and may have built-in sound cards, CD \nROM, and Ethernet (PC Week 12/14/92). \nMDA: Monocrome Display Adapter\n original character-mapped video mode, no graphics, 80x25 text.\nCGA: Color Graphics Array\n 320x200 4 colors or 640x200 b/w, 16 color palette, bad for the eyes.\nEGA: Enhanced Graphics Array\n 640x350 16 colors from 64 color palette [and some lower res]; some versions \n could run at 256 colors, bearable on the eyes.\nVGA: Video Graphics Array*\n 320x200 at 256 colors, 640x480 at 16 colors, and some others, these two are \n the most commonly used. All modes have a 256K CLUT, from a \n 18 to 24-bit {IBM} or a 32-bit {Mac} color palette. 25.175 MHz Pixel Clock\n (Mel Martinez). Monitors use analog input, incompatible with TTL signals\n from EGA/CGA etc. \nMCGA: Multi-Color Graphics Array*\n subset of VGA that provides all the features of MDA & CGA, but lacks some EGA \n and VGA modes, like VGA 640x480x16 (Dictionary of Computer Terms-DCT). \n Common on the initial PS/1 implementation from IBM and some PS/2 Models.\nSVGA: Super VGA*\n This is not a standard in the way the others were, but instead was a 'catch \n all' category for a group of video cards. As such, with each manufacturer \n using their own implementation scheme, SVGA was chaos with people debating\n as to what is SVGA and what is not. In an effort to make SVGA more of a \n standard VESA was established and is used in the newer units, but things\n are still a mess. Video is either 512K [~1990] or 1M [today], resolution\n of 800x600 and 1024x768 at 16 and 256 colors are common, newer ones [since \n 1990] have the Sierra HiColor RAMDAC, giving 15-bit 32,768 colors at 800x600, \n some of the very newer ones [~6/92] can do 24 bits per pixel [usually \n at 640x480]. Speedwise, too much variation, some very slow [Western Digital \n Paradise based, for example], some very fast [S3 86C911 based, for example], \n some are so-so [like Tseng ET4000, a very popular chipset]. Some limiting \n factors overcome by 40MHz VL Bus & 386's linear address mapping were: \n 8.33 MHz ISA bus, AT architecture where the CPU looks at the card through a \n 64K \"window\", etc.\nOther non-SVGA standards: \n8514/a:\n IBM's own standard, interlacing graphics accelerator with graphics functions \n like linedraw, polygon fill, etc. in hardware. Some clone implementations \n from ATI are the fastest video available today, though some clone models do \n not have interlacing. \nTMS34010/34020: high end graphics co-processors, usually >$1000, some\n do 24-bit, speeds up vector-oriented graphics like CAD.\nXGA: eXtended Graphics Array\n newer and faster than 8514/a, only available for MCA bus-based PS/2s, clones \n are coming out soon. Emulates VGA, EGA, and CGA (DCT). Max resolution at \n 1024x768x8b, same as 8514/a, also some 16 bpp modes.\nXGA-2\n Accelerates graphics functions up to 20 times faster than standard VGA in\n Windows and OS/2, including line draws, bit and pixel-block transfers, area\n fills, masking and X/Y addressing. Has an intelligent way to detect and co-\n exist with other XGA-2 cards, so multiple desktops like on the Mac may not be \n far away. Since this is an architecture, its resolution and color depth \n isn't fixed {IBM implements only 16-bit [65,536] color, while other \n companies can have 24-bit color through IBM technical licenses}. Refresh \n rates up to 75 Hz, ensures flicker free, rock solid images to reduce visual \n discomfort, and is VGA compatible. Up to 1280x1024 on OS/2.\n*some monitor types usable by Mac-See Mac section above for specific details.\n\nExpansion\nBoth Mac & IBM\nSCSI: only external device expansion interface common to both Mac and IBM.\n Allows the use of any device: hard drive, printer, scanner, Nubus card \n expansion {Mac Plus only}, some monitors, and CD-ROM. \n Main problem: there are a lot of external devices which are internal \n terminated which causes problems for more then two devises off the SCSI port \n {A SCSI chain is supposed to be terminated ONLY at the begining and at the \n end. Any other set up causes problems for either Mac or IBM}. \nSCSI-1: 7 devices per SCSI controller. 8-bit asynchronous {~1.5MB/s ave}\n and synchronous {5MB/s max} transfers. Difference is due to SCSI-1 software\n drivers. \"Fast SCSI-1\" is a misname for 8-bit SCSI-2 in SCSI-1 mode\n {see SCSI-2 for details}.\nSCSI-2: 10 devices per SCSI controller in SCSI-2 mode. SCSI-2 is fully\n SCSI-1 compliant and 8-bit SCSI-2 tends to be implemented as a very fast\n SCSI-1 since it does not require the different controller interfaces in \n hardware and software that 16 and 32-bit SCSI-2 do. Transfer speeds are\n 4-6MB/s with 10MB/s burst {8-bit}, 8-12MB/s with 20MB/s burst {16-bit}, and\n 15-20MB/s with 40MB/s burst {32-bit/wide and fast}. Since 8-bit SCSI-2 can\n use SCSI-1 software drivers and hardware at 8-bit SCSI-2 speeds and as such\n is limited to 7 devices sometimes it is mistakenly called \"fast SCSI-1\". \n 16-bit fast SCSI-2 requires a SCSI-2 software driver and SCSI-2 electronics\n but can still use the SCSI-1 ports. Wide 16-bit and 32-bit SCSI-2 require a\n different SCSI port, electronics, and software driver from SCSI-1 {Which\n makes them more expensive than other SCSI interfaces}.\nMac SCSI: asynchronous SCSI-1 built-in standard since the Plus. Even though \n Apple developed some specifications for SCSI controlers, the OS SCSI Manager\n needs to be rewritten to take full advantage of the features of both SCSI\n interfaces. As a result present SCSI-2 Macs use 8-bit SCSI-2 as a fast \n asynchronous SCSI-1. Presently Quadras are the only Macs with a SCSI-2\n controller chip built-in (Digital Review, Oct 21, 1991 v8 n33 p8(1)) \n though they lack some other parts of the hardware, like the wide SCSI-2 port \n interface. Since other Macs require a NuBus card to use SCSI-2, older NuBus \n Macs had a bottleneck due to the speed of the NuBus and CPU. Rumor-some\n Cyclone Macs {June} will come with a wide & fast SCSI-2 port standard \n and have a rewritten OS SCSI manager.\nIBM SCSI: SCSI-1 is not too wide spread yet, generally not bundled with \n systems, except as add-on {EISA and VESA Local Bus adapters avalable}.\n Like the Mac, 8-bit SCSI-2 is used as a very fast SCSI-1 by most controllers\n out there. Unlike the Mac, IBM has no exact SCSI controller specifications\n which results in added incompatibilities for SCSI.\n\nMac\nMemory expansion: with a few exceptions the Mac has used non-parity 30-pin \n 8-bit SIMM memory expansion since the Plus. While 32-pin 9-bit parity SIMMs\n could be used in these Macs, only special IIcis could make use of the parity \n feature {By convension both SIMM types are called 32-pin SIMMs}. The IIfx \n used 64-pin parity SIMMs. The LC III, C610/650 and Q800 all use a new \n 72-pin SIMM that is accessable by 32-bits at a time and is used in IBMs.\n The Mac does a complete memory check at startup by writing/reading every\n memory location; if something is seriously wrong with a SIMM the Mac will\n not boot and give a sound chord indicating what the problem is.\n Since Macs made before Feb 15, 1993 managed memory baced on data path, SIMMs \n had to be installed in pairs {16-bit} or in sets of 4 {32-bit}. The Centris \n 650 and Quadra 800 eliminate this with a new memory management setup that \n allows memory to be upgraded one SIMM at a time. If the SIMMs are the same \n size are used then the memory is 'interleaved' across the two SIMMs resulting \n in a 10-15% performance boost on RAM access (MacWorld Apr 93: 108-109).\nPrinters, ADBs, and modems: built-in interfaces standard.\nMonitor interface and sound input: built-in on most present macs. \nPDS: Available in SE & all present non-Powerbook Macs. 16-bit {SE, \n Portable, LC, LC II, Classic line} and 32-bit. Operates at CPU's MHz. \n Maximum through put: data path in bytes*CPU's MHz {Q700/900 & C650: \n 4 * 25Mhz = 100MB/s; Q800 & Q950: 4 * 33Mhz = 132MB/s}. Standardized with\n the LC and 040 bus designs. With an adapter one NuBus card can be used in \n IIsi and C610. Problem: some cards have timing dependency which slows \n through put down.\nNuBus Mac II: 32-bit, 10 MHz bus clock, 1-to-1 transaction/bus cycle ratio,\n and contiguous, hand-shake transactions at ~10-20MB/s; theoretical peak:\n 40MB/s. Built-in on all Modular Macs except the LC series, C610, and \n Performa 400. The SE/30 could be adapted to use this and there was even a \n Mac Plus SCSI NuBus. Supports every possible expansion from CPU to Ethernet \n to DMA.\nNuBus 90: NuBus Mac II back compatable. 20MHz bus clock, avg throughput:\n ~30MB/s; burst mode: 80MB/s. Future card designs will be 7\" instead of the \n old 12\".\nQuickRing: A peer-to-peer bus used in parallel with NuBus 90. Apple's \n VLBus - \"Architecture is identical to that of VLBus\" (Byte 10/92:128).\n Burst mode: 350MB/s (Byte 10/92:128). In development.\nCPU expansion: handled either through the PDS or the NuBus. Unlike PDS, \n Nubus CPU cards {example-Radius Rocket} allow use of multiple processors at \n the same time. This is like having two or more Macs in the same box able to \n dual task or joinly process depending on the card or software involved {Each \n NuBus card needs its own memory but most NuBus cards of this type come with \n 8MB RAM SIMMs on the card standard}.\n\nIBM\nMemory expansion: parity SIMMs, non-parity SIMMs {some newer models do a Mac-\nlike SIMM memory check}, or a dozen or so different types of memory boards.\n\nHD Interfaces {limited to hard drives by design or lack of development}: \nMFM: Modified Frequency Modulation, RLL: Run Length Limited\n only used with smaller [² 60mb] hard drives.\nIDE: Integrated Device Electronics \n Asynchronous {~5MB/s max} and synchronous {8.3MB/s max} transfer.\n currently the most common standard, and is mainly used for medium sized \n drives. Can have more than one hard drive. \nESDI: Enhanced Small Device Interface\n ~1.25MB/s throughput. generally considered better interface than SCSI-1 in\n many ways but not common enough for practical consideration. Outside of\n hard drives, device choices are very limited compared to SCSI-1. \n\nBUS interfaces\n{New 'plug and play' ISA and EISA compatable cards may have problems working \nwith old cards (InfoWorld; PC Week 03/08/93; Vaporware 4/93).}\nISA\n 8 & 16-bit interfaces common. Has 24-bit data path limit {which produces a\n 16MB limit for which there are software workarounds} (PC Mag 4/27/93:105).\n 1.5 MB/s (Byte 3/93:132). Uses edge-triggered interrupts, can't share them,\n hence comes the IRQ conflict. Limited busmastering capabilities, some cards\n aren't bandwidth limited {COM ports, LPT ports, game ports, MIDI card, etc.}\n while others are {video and disk controllers}. Dominant factor, but it's\n showing its age. Most ISA motherboard designs are 16-bit\n (PC World Feb 1993: 144-5)}. \nMCA {Micro Channel}\n IBM's 16 and 32-bit bus; \"allows use of more than one CPU in a computer\" \n (DCT) and anything can talk to anything, as fast as the two components \n involved can handle it. Never took off because it was incompatible with ISA \n and EISA. Planned to be bus interface of IBM PowerPC 601 (Carl Jabido).\nEISA {NuBus Mac II is closest Mac equivalent}\n 32-bit, 8.33 MHz, burst mode: 33MB/s. It also has the ability to \n self-configure cards like MCA and allows multiple bus masters, sharable \n interrupt and DMA channels and multiple CPU use.\nVESA Local Bus: VLB {Sometimes mistakenly refereed to as PDS}\n Local Bus standard. Runs at CPU clock rate, Burst modes: ~130 MB/s{32-bit}\n 250 MB/s{64-bit} (Byte 10/92:128). Limited to three slots but allows bus \n mastering and will coexist with either ISA or EISA. Consitered ideal for \n video and disk I/O. DELL has filled a claim that this violates one of\n their patents (Mel Martinez).\nQuickRing: Apple's faster {350 MB/s burst} version of VLB architecture\n (Byte 10/92:132). Might show up in some IBM and PowerPC machines\n (Byte 10/92:132-133). In development.\nPCI\n Intel's version of Local Bus that is intended to totally replace \n ISA/EISA/MCA. In development.\n\nOSes {assumes full installation [print drivers, fonts, Multifinder, etc.]\nand multiple application use.}\nMac\n512K to 1MB of OS and hardware commands have been put into ROM. This allows \nApple to control its machine by putting key hooks for the Mac OS {QuickDraw, \nmenu commands, print, mouse, SCSI & sound drivers, etc} in ROM, which require \nclone makers to use the ROM chip or read ROM on to disks {Which requires \naccess to the proper Mac since different Macs have slightly different ROM \nchips; Plus vs Classic for example.} With key hooks for the OS support \ninterface in ROM, programers do not have to worry as much whether the disk OS \nhas the necessary hardware commands or that those commands are consitant and \ntherefore can write smaller programs. This also allows Apple greater control \nover hardware-software standards and that the disk OS can be smaller and, with \nsome of the tookbox command code in ROM, with lower RAM requirements then a \ntotally disk based OS. Macs use Masked ROM which is as fast as DRAM (Jon \nWtte).\n6.0.7: Single program usage base requirements: 1 MB and DD floppy, \n cooperatively-multitasking base requirements: 2MB and HD floppy. \n Features a GUI, cooperative-multitasker [MultiFinder], standard program \n interface, & standard stereo sound support [snd]. Network receiving part of \n AppleShare software is bundled with the OS. Has a 8MB RAM barrier and is a \n 24-bit OS. Some third party products allow 14MB of Virtual Memory as long as \n real RAM is below 8MB.\n6.0.8: 6.0.7 with 7.0.0 print drivers.\n6.0.8L: System 6 for some Macs that require System 7.0.X.\n7.0.X: Base requirements: 2MB, 40MB Hard Drive, and 68000; De-facto standard \n to run all features well: 4MB, 80MB Hard Drive, and 68030 {lowest present \n non-portable Mac configuration}. Using up to 10.08MB {This is EVERYTHING on\n system disks} of hard disk space this has 6.0.7 features plus program linking \n within and between computers [IAC], built-in server capabilities {Filesharing \n can be used by older OSes using AppleShare Client software and can be \n accessed by 10 macs max; 4-5 is more speed practical, IAC requires 7.X}, \n Virtual Memory in machines with MMU{1.6 times real RAM for least noticeable \n IIsi speed degradation}, drag and drop, QuickTime & built-in TrueType \n support. Supports sound input [AIFF and snd formats] for most present \n machines. Can access up to 1GB of true RAM and 4GB of virtual memory and is \n both a 24 and 32-bit OS. To use real RAM beyond 8MB it must be in 32-bit \n mode and on older machines requires the 'Mode 32' extension. Apple's last \n 'free' OS.\n7.1.0: 7.0.1 with WorldScript support, speedier, and less RAM usage than \n 7.0.dot (MacWeek 8/24/92; 9/14/92; PC Week 9/7/92). To run in 32-bit mode \n on older machines it requires the 'Mode 32' or '32-Bit Enabler' extension. \n Marks the start of Apple saling its Mac OS instead of allowing free upgrades\n {Bundled with new machines, $49 for 7.0.X upgrades, $99 otherwise}.\n [The installer has a bug that when upgrading it may keep some old system \n fonts from the previous system inside the system file. This can eat up any \n RAM benefits and cause other problems. Apple itself recommends removing all \n fonts from the system file.]\nA/UX 3.0 [UNIX]: Needs 8MB RAM {12-20MB suggested}, 160MB hard drive, and \n a 68030 or 68040 equivalent to run. This 32-bit preemptive multitasking OS \n is large due to being UNIX and needing translators between it and the Mac \n ROMs. Price: $709.\nNote: sound output was supported in OSes 3.2 to 6.0.5 by many formats \nincluding the following: snd, WAVE, ASND, FSSD, QSSN, SMSD, SOUN, dc2d, and \nDCFL. In 6.0.7 the sound manager was optimized for the sound standards 'snd' \nand AIFF which causes some playback problems for the old formats, though most \nstill play.\n\nIBM\n Machiness have little GUI code, data, and hooks present in hardware for \nprogrammers to work with, so most of the coding must be provided in the OS. \nSince hard disks were slow the disk OS code is read into RAM. In addition, \nwhat little ROM code there is also read into RAM {a process called Shadow ROM} \nThis results in faster implementation since RAM is faster then PROMS or \nEPROMS. Having most of the OS code on disk has the advantage of being able to \nbetter optimize the code given a certain piece or collection of hardware which \nis harder with a ROM based system due to the 'patches' needed. In addition it \nreduces the need for and size of patches if a major revision of the hardware \nsupport is needed.\nSide note: The FTC charged that MicroSoft formed a OS trust by not providing \nall feature documentation for its OSes to developers outside MS and designing \nits Windows and DOS apps to fail under OS/2 (\"Undocumented Windows\") and \n\"There is deliberate code in [Windows] NT Beta which causes the install to \nabort if OS/2 Boot Manager is present\" (Gregory Hicks, Info-IBMPC Digest V92 \n#201). Due to a conflict of intrest by one member the vote of the FTC \njudicial council for action against Microsoft was a tie which resulted in no \naction. Rumors-the FTC will presue the matter, likely to the point of \nchoosing a new member or whole new council. In addition the government has \nturned down Microsoft's copyright of \"Windows\" which would allow it to charge \na fee for developers using their hooks (PC Week 03/08/93).\nMicroSoft OSes\nDOS 5.0: Has a 640K barrier with its own memory manager, a 1 MB barrier \n with third party memory managers. This 16-bit OS requires that each program \n must provide its own print drivers and be 16-bit {Programs need to be DOS \n Protected Mode Interface (DPMI) compliant and running on a 386dx [32-bit \n Protected Mode] to break these barriers}. Contains the GUI shell present in\n DOS 4.0.\nDOS 6.0: DOS 5.0 with the added features of a built-in file compresion, disk \n defragmenter, debugger for the CONFIG.SYS file. It needs a $80 module for \n networking {Cost: $50 through 5/93, after that $129.99} \n (Byte April 1993:44-46).\nDOS 7.0: 32-bit DOS. In development (PC Week 04/05/93).\nWindow 3.0: Runs on top of DOS. Breaks 640K and 1M barriers but still has to \n deal with DOS file structure. Base requirements: 1MB, floppy and 286; to\n run well 2MB, hard drive, 386sx and fast display adapter {> 8-bit}. Has the\n equivalent of Mac's QD called Windows GDI [Graphics Device Interface].\n This does not have a consistent application interface {Like early Mac\n programs (1984-1985)} nor a very large program base {compared to DOS} and\n still tends to slow the machine down (Info-IBMPC Digest V92 #186) with speed\n is more dependent on the display adapter then on the CPU (Bill Coleman).\n Window programs tend to be disk and memory hogs compared to their DOS\n counterparts (Byte April 1993:98-108).\nWindow 3.1: A faster version of Window 3.0 with better memory managment. Base \n requirements 1 MB, hard drive and a 286 ;to run well 2MB, hard drive, 386sx. \n Apple plans to release its print drivers for this (PC Week 12/28/92).\nWindows for Workgroups: To run well: 4MB RAM and 386dx (PC World Feb/93:160). \n Intermediary between Win 3.1 and Windows NT. It is basically Windows 3.1 \n with built-in peer to peer networking support.\nWindows NT: Beta release takes about 50MB of disk space [including the \n swap file], and 12MB RAM {Betas are notorious for RAM usage especially in \n the interaction between debuging code and program compliers, hence the \n reports of 24MB requirements}. Released version supposed to need 8MB RAM \n but, Gates himself now recommends 16MB RAM (PC Week 04/15/92).\n This 32-bit OS has Protected mode multitasking, multithreading, symmetric \n multiprocessing, a recoverable file system, and 32-bit GDI. Has built in\n networking that is OSF DCE compliant and can handle up to 4GB of RAM. Even\n though some people see a July 4 release date (InfoWorld Nov 16/92), rumor\n is that the final version will not be available before Oct 1993\n (InfoWorld May 25/92; July 6/92; Vaporware 07/92; 08/92) or 4th quarter 1993\n (PC Week 09/28/92). Windows upgrades will be $295, otherwise $495\n (PC Week 04/15/92; 03/15/93).\nOther OSes\nPC-DOS 6.0: IBM's version of DOS 6.0. It runs Windows much faster then DOS \n 6.0 due to faster file I/O and video handling (InfoWorld Feb 1, 93).\nDR DOS 6.0: same as DOS 5.0 with some extras {like built-in data compression} \n and memory management enhancements. Still has 640K/1MB barrier. A later \n version {Novell DOS} of this may use a version of the Mac finder and Apple \n file management system (PC Week 12/14/92; InfoWorld Dec 14/92).\nOS/2 2.0: Unix like features and unix like requirements; 8-16MB RAM,\n 60MB {uses 17-33MB} hard drive, and 386dx CPU. This 32-bit multithreaded, \n multitasking OS can address up to 4GB of RAM but has to use a fast swap file \n to use more than 16 MB RAM on ISA systems using DMA {Direct Memory Access}. \n IBM plans to use Taligent's OOPS in future versions of this \n (InfoWorld Oct 26/92).\nAIX: IBM's UNIX system, planned to be a subset of PowerOpen and Taligent OS.\nNeXTStep: GUI UNIX to provide NeXT features on IBM machines. Beta out, final \n version to be out by May 25, 1993.\nSolaris OS for x86: a SunSoft port. A 32-bit OS with symmetric \n multiprocessing and multithreading, built-in networking capabilities with \n tools to allow remote configuring and adminstration features, and \n communication package. Client: $795, 50 users server: $1,995, 1000s users\n server: $5,995. Developer kits-software: $495, hardware: $195.\nMac 7.1 [working name: Star Trek]: Apple had System 7.0 running off Intel \n Chips and is looking at making a 7.1 version available for IBM \n (ComputerWorld Nov 2/92; MacWeek 03/22/93). At present this is planned to run \n on top of Novell's DR DOS, require a 486 or equivalent to run and that apps \n will need to be recompiled (MacWeek 03/22/93). Viewed as Novell's answer to \n Windows NT. The complexity of PC hardware set ups is one reason for slow \n progress {This seems to Apple/IBM's way of leading to the PowerPC line out in \n late 1993/early 1994 and Pink OS in late 1994-early 1995.}\n\nPowerPC\nRumor-IBM will build its PowerPC 601 by late 1993 (InfoWorld June 8 & 15, 92; \nMacWeek 7/13/92; PC Week 3/15/93). It will have MicroChannel bus and XGA \nvideo (Carl B Jabido), and will run native version AIX and Mac apps (PC Week \n3/15/93); there have been no comments on compatablity of DOS or Windows apps.\nApple's PowerPC 601 machine {Tesseract} is planned to be out Jan 24, 1994 and \nto have MC98601/50 MHz, 4/8MB RAM, a 2.8-Mbyte floppy drive and expected to \nsale near LC line prices {~$2000, down from projections of ~$3000 (MacUser \n9/92:146)}\n(MacWeek 3/22/93).\nPowerOpen [A/UX 4.0]: A 32-bit preemtive multitasking OS planned to run on\n PowerPCs and 68030/40 Macs (MacWeek 7/13/92). Intel compatibility uncertain\n (See Mac 7.1 above). Planned base requirements: 68030, 8MB RAM, 80MB hard\n drive (MacWeek 4/19/93). Rumor-ahead of schedule; COULD be out by mid 1993.\n Rumor-this could be the OS for IBM's PowerPC 601 which is due by late 1993.\nPink [Taligent OS]: Expecting delivery in 1994 (Wall Street Journal 1/12/92) \n and may have some parts shipping in OS/2 and AIX in 1993 and Mac OS and \n PowerOpen with the PowerPCs (MacWeek 01/25/93).\nWindows NT: Possible port (MacWeek 04/05/93). See IBM OS section for details.\nSolaris OS: Version of this Sun Microsystems Inc UNIX OS to run on the\n Power PCs in 1994 (MacWeek 04/05/93). One of the few OSes to directly state \n that it will run Windows/DOS programs. IBM OS section for details\nNeXTStep: possible port see IBM OS section for details.\n\nOS Number Crunching (Mel Park)\nMac\n Arithmetic is done in a consistent numerical environment {SANE or Standard \nApple Numerics Environment}. Floating point numbers are 96 bits long when an \nFPU is present and 80 bits otherwise. Exceptions, such as dividing by zero or \ntaking the square root of a negative number, do not cause an abort but are \nhandled in a logically consistent manner. 1/0 produces the internal \nrepresentation for infinity (INF). 1/(1/0) produces zero. The above treatment \nof 1/(1/0) occurs in an FPU-equipped machine even when SANE is bypassed and \nthe FPU programmed directly.\n\nIBM\n Floating point numbers are 80-bits with a hardware FPU, 64-bits when \nemulated. The way they are handled is dependent on the coding of whatever \ncompiler or assembler was used for a program. On older DOS complilers \nexceptions could cause program aborts; 1/0 and 1/(1/0) would abort to the DOS \nprompt at the point where they occured. Most present compilers handle this \nbetter. Result: there is little consistent handling of numbers between DOS, \nWindows and OS/2 programs nor between programs for just one OS.\n\nNetworking [Includes printing]\nWYSIWYG printing can be a problem with either Mac of IBM machines especially \nif one sends TrueType fonts to a older style PostScript printer.\nMac\nHardware: Built-in LocalTalk network port and a built-in printer port. \nLocalTalk has moderate speeds (230.4 Kb/s) requires special connectors for \neach machine ($15 and up) and can be run off of either the printer port {to \ninclude very old macs} or the network port {standard today}. Built-in \nEthernet is becoming common but many older Macs require a PDS or Nubus card at \nabout $150-$300 for each machine. These cards provide three connectors and \ntransceivers {thick, thin, and 10BaseT} for Ethernet.\nThe Macintosh Quadra family and some Centris models includes Ethernet \ninterface on motherboard, with transceivers available. TokenRing has been a \nnetwork option since 1989.\nSoftware: AppleTalk {the suite of protocols} standard with Mac OS, which can \nuse variety of media types. AppleShare client software included with the OS \nas well and can connect to file servers such as Novell Netware, 3Com 3+Open, \nBanyan Vines, DEC Pathworks, Apple's AppleShare servers, System 7 File Sharing \nmachines, and AFP servers running on variety of UNIX hosts. MacTCP allows \ntypical TCP/IP communications (telnet, ftp, NFS, rlogin). A later version \nwill have Unix X/Open Transport Interface (XTI) built-in by the end of 1993 \n(MacWeek 04/12/93). Third-party software to connect to NFS servers. DEC \nPathworks provides DECnet support. Peer-to-peer file sharing software \nbuilt-in to System 7.1 (See OS section). Full server software is extra. \nPrinting requires connection of the printer and the printer being selected in \nthe chooser. Changing printers is by selecting a different name in the \nchooser. The same is true of connecting to servers.\nPrinting bugs: Monaco TrueType font is different then the screen bitmap font.\n {QuickDraw QX is suppossed to fix this and similar problems.}\n\nIBM \nHardware: LocalTalk [not widely used], Ethernet, and TokenRing.\nSoftware: Novell Netware, Banyan Vines, DECNet, Windows/Work Groups, AppleTalk \nprotocols, and AppleShare {subset of AppleTalk}.\nEach of the MS-DOS networking schemes are, in general, totally incompatible \nwith the others. Once you have chosen one, you are pretty much locked-in to \nthat product line from then on. Windows/Work Groups is a little more \nforgiving and removes some of this problem. Novell Netware is the biggest, \n{~80 percent of the corporate market.} and in general is more powerful and \noffers better control/management/security than AppleShare, but it's also more \ncomplex to set up and manage. This will change due to the use of the Mac \nfinder and file management system by Novell. (PC Week 12/14/92 & 12/28/92; \nInfoWorld Dec 14/92; MacWeek 3/22/93)\nPrinting {Very OS dependent}\nDOS: If it's a single user, then you plug the printer into the parallel port, \n and don't worry about it {Tweeking may be needed with poorly written \n software}. Network Printing is not controlled by the system, but is mostly \n implemented by the actual program, therefore performance varies from one \n software program to the next.\nWindows 3.x: supports standard drivers and can do a good job of showing \"jobs\" \n in the print queue, but it always lists printers as \"active\"... even if they \n are not. This becomes a problem if there are several incompatible printers \n on the same net, because there's no way for software to reliably determine \n which printer is active right now. Windows for Workgroups is more Mac-like \n and intelligent about this.\nOS/2: Mac-like; the os deals with printers, with apps making calls to the OS.\nPrinting bugs: due to poor programing some programs for all the above OSes do \nnot have WYSIWYG printing. This is the fault of the programs in question and \nnot that of the OS involved.\n\nPrice issue: This is very dynamic with Mac providing more build-in features \nthan IBM and IBM being more 'get only what you need' then Mac and price wars \nby both worlds.\nThe IBM machines' modualar nature prevents any kind of true hardware \nstandarization, which in turn requires OSes and programs to be very complex to \nhandle ALL the variation in hardware. When one adds all the standard Mac \nhardware features to an IBM {built-in input/output sound support, SCSI, PDS, \nbuilt-in monitor support, built-in networking, standard mouse interface, and \nNuBus 90 in higher machines} the Mac tends to be cheaper then an equivalent \nequipted IBM machine {Especially since some IBM monitors can be used with Macs \nwhich cuts some more of the Mac's cost (MacUser Aug 1992:158-176)}.\n Some prices using some of the info in this sheet and MacUser April 1993.\nAll Macs below come with a PDS slot, VRAM, and SCSI-1 built in. Except where \nnoted, monitor is extra and a built-in monitor interface is provided {no card \nneeded except for 24-bit color display}.\nIBM planned a $1,200 386SLC/25MHz model with a 60MB hard drive and color VGA \nmonitor {~VRAM} (MacWeek 8/17/92) {sounds like a Color Classic without SCSI-1, \nsound support, built-in network support, FPU socket, built-in expansion to \n16-bit color, etc}.\nColor Classic: $1,389 - 030/16MHz with 16-bit data bus {~386sx/20MHz \nequivalent}, 4/80, FPU socket, and built-in monitor.\nLCIII: $1,499 - 030/25MHz {~386dx/33MHz equivalent}, and 4/160.\nCentris 610: $2,899 - 68LC040/20MHz {Depending on the program ~486sx/40 or \n~'486dx2sx'/20[40]MHz equivalent}, 8/230, built-in ethernet, 300i CD-ROM, a \nPDS/NuBus 90 slot and VRAM for 16-bit color.\nCentris 650: 040/25MHz {Depending on the program ~486dx/50 MHz or 486dx2/50 \nMHz equivalent} with a PDS and 3 NuBus 90 slots. $3,189 {ethernet, 8/80}; \n$3,559 {ethernet, 8/230}; $3,999 {ethernet, 8/230, CD-ROM, VRAM for 16-bit \ncolor}\n\nBibliography notes\n'Vaporware' is available in the digest/vapor directory by FTP on sumex-\naim.stanford.edu [36.44.0.6] and was by Murphy Sewall {last issue: April 93.}\n'Info-IBMPC Digest' back issues are available from wsmr-simtel20.army.mil in \ndirectory PD2:\n'Dictionary of Computer Terms 3rd ed.' (ISBM 0-8120-4824-5)\n\nThese are the facts as they were known to me on 4/15/93 and may be changed by \nnew developments, announcements, or corrections. Corrections to the \ninformation are welcome.\nPlease email corrections to \nCompuServe ID: 72130,3557\nAOL: BruceG6069\nInternet: bgrubb@dante.nmsu.edu\n\nFinal note: Since there is NO comp.sys.ibm.pc.advocacy group this has been \nposted to the closest relevent groups {comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy, \ncomp.os.os2.advocacy, and comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc}. Also since some Mac vs IBM \narticles have been showing up in comp.sys.mac.hardware I have included that \nnewsgroup in the posting. {Don't site the comp.sys.mac.* FAQ as a reason not \nto post to comp.sys.mac.hardware, since the FAQ itself does not follow \ninternet guidelines, especially the de-facto \"[all] the FAQs for a newgroup \nhierarchy should be posted to ALL newsgroups in the hierarchy\" standard.}\n\n\"Eliminate the impossible and what ever remains, no matter how improbable,\nis the truth\" -- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle through Sherlock Holmes in The \nAdventure of the Beryl Coronet, The Adventure of the Blanched Soldier, Sign of \nFour and The Adventure of the Bruce-Partington Plans.", ": Build 59 causes 2 exceptions when I exit Windows. In fact, I have had\n: this happen on all builds after 44, which shipped with my Gateway\n: system. Am I doing something wrong, or is this problem commonly\n: overlooked?\n\nI have never had \"exceptions\" with build 44, 50, or 59 drivers. I have a\nGW2000 DX266.\n\n--", "\n\nThe Delaunay triangulation is the geometrical dual of the \nVoronoi tessellation and both constructions are derived from\nnatural neighbor order.\n\nAurenhammer, F., 1991, Voronoi Diagrams - A Survey of a \nFundamental Geometric Data Structure:\nACM Computing Surveys, 23(3), p. 345-405. \n\nOkabe, A., Boots, B., and Sugihara, K., 1992, Spatial \ntessellations : concepts and applications of Voronoi diagrams: \nWiley & Sons, New York, ISBN 0 471 93430 5, 532p.\n\nWatson, D.F., 1981, Computing the n-dimensional Delaunay \ntessellation with application to Voronoi polytopes: \nThe Computer J., 24(2), p. 167-172.}\n\nWatson, D.F., 1985, Natural neighbour sorting: The Australian \nComputer J., 17(4), p. 189-193. \n", "\n\n\n\n\n\nI contacted Lotus about this problem today. It has been reported previously\nand there is a fix. Apparantly the problem only occurs when TAB characters\nare used immediately preceding the equation frame. The work around when\nequations are expected to touch the right margin is to delete at least one\npreceding TAB and use SPACE to align the frame (or use set frame where\nplaced w/no text wrap around). Unforutnately, once the page run-on has\noccured you are hosed. So the moral of the story is use only SPACE characters\nto align equation frames.\n\nHope this helps the rest of you who have already contacted me with this \nproblem.", "\nYeah. Sounds typical. Windows makes all sorts of extra demands on hardware,\nand therefore your machine can't keep up with things. Ever notice how when\nacessing the floppies in Windows, everything else slows to a crawl? I \nimagine your backup and evertyhing else that is running fights for CPU time,\nand sometimes the backup program loses. Be glad. I can't even run in \nmedium speed with CP backup on my machine, supposedly because I have a SCSI\nmachine which places extra demands on the data bus.", "I've come across a circuit from Integrated Circuit Systems Inc\ncalled a GSP500. This chip genlocks a VGA card to a dual input\nNTSC signal. \nThe output from this chip is basicly a pixel clock, and has various \nspeeds. I notice that it outputs a 28mhz clock.. can this output be \nused on an Amiga system?\nAnd must it be NTSC/VGA or can it be NTSC/NTSC ?\n \nAny simple circuits to boost an NTSC to a VGA signal?\nNeed to genlock a laser disc to my 31khz video.\n-John\n", "\nIf it's any consolation, I had a similar problem. As I recall, if I exited\nfrom a DOS session while in full-screen mode, the menu titles had changed to a\nscrambled version of the icon title font (or something like that). It only\nstarted happening after I used IconTitleFaceName in WIN.INI to change the\ndesktop font to Arial. So I stopped exiting from DOS sessions while in\nfull-screen mode.\n\nMy Mac used to do something similar. Aren't computers weird?\n\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------", "I just noticed that my halogen table lamp runs off 12 Volts.\nThe big thinngy that plugs into the wall says 12 Volts DC, 20mA\n\nThe question is: Can I trickle charge the battery on my CB650\nwith it?\n\nI don't know the rating of the battery, but it is a factory\nintalled one. \n\n\nThanks,\nSanjay\n\n-- \n '81 CB650 \t\t\t\t\t\tDoD #1224", "\n\n\nIt sounds like your TV is one of the ones that also reacts to the video \nprotection. (Poor you!)\n\nThe Macroscrubber from Radio Electronics removes the protection so you \nsouldn't have any more problems. However, if you use the method of \ncopying it from one VCR to another where the second VCR doesn't react to \nthe protection, you will end up with a duplicate tape, including the \nprotection.\n\nOne thought comes to mind about your problem... When playing the tape \nfor viewing, are you feeding the signal from the source VCR through an \nextra device before going to the TV? If you feed it through a second VCR \nfirst, that is your problem. As to other devices such as converters, I \ndon't know if they would react or not. Just to be safe, you might want \nto make sure that you have NOTHING between the VCR and TV.", "I am planning on upgrading my old XT compatible system with a new\nmotherboard, hard drive, and 1.4 MB floppy.\n\nI am interested in using my old power supply (150 W) to power the new\nhardware, if possible. \n\nI have been told by the motherboard vendor that I could probably\nuse the supply if it had twelve wires going to the motherboard.\n(Apparently some XT vintage supplies had only 11 wires -- the\n12th wire is a 5v line used to charge the motherboard battery).\n\nMy question is has anybody tried bringing an additional wire\nout of an 11 wire supply OR using an auxiliary power source\nto charge the motherboard battery?\n\nI do not wish to buy an entirely new power supply if I can \nmake use of my existing one with simple hacks.\n\nThank you for any information. \nAn email reply to rarbanas@rcsuna.gmr.com would be fine.", "I have a 512k VRAM chip for sale. Worked fine in my LCII and will give 256\ncolors on 640 x 480 size screen. Asking $50. I'll cover postage. Speaking\nof which, does anyone know what the best way to send a chip is. I have a\nplastic antistatic sleeve, but what's the best way to send it? In an\nenvelope? First class? All info appreciated.", "Archive-name: Intel-Unix-X-faq\nLast-modified: 30 Mar 1993\n\nNote: This is a major re-organization (and replacement) of my\n \"Frequently Asked Questions About X386\" FAQ list.\n\nThis article includes answers to:\n\nI) What options do I have for X software on my Intel-based Unix system?\n\t1. Free options\n\t2. Commercial options\nII) What is XFree86 and where do I get it?\n\t3. What is XFree86?\n\t4. What OSs are supported?\n\t5. What video hardware is supported?\n\t6. What about accelerated boards?\n\t7. Why doesn't XFree86 support 16-color VGA modes?\n\t8. What other hardware or software requirements are there?\n\t9. Where can I get source for XFree86?\n\t10. Where can I get binaries for XFree86?\nIV) What general things should I know about running XFree86?\n\t11. Installation directories\n\t12. Configuration files\n\t13. Determining VGA dot clocks and monitor modes\n\t14. Rebuilding/reconfiguring the server from the link kit\nV) What OS-specific things should I know about running XFree86?\n\t15. SVR4\n\t16. SVR3\n\t17. 386BSD\n\t18. Linux\n\t19. Mach\nVI) What things should I know for building XFree86 from source?\nVII) Is there anything special about building clients with XFree86?\n\t20. BSD compatibility library\n\t21. ANSICCOPTIONS\n\nThis article does NOT include answers to general X questions, since these\nare already covered by the X FAQ that is regularly posted by David B. Lewis\n.\n\nIf you have anything to add or change on the FAQ just let me know.\n(especially if you had a problem that someone else was able to help you with)\nSend changes to steve@ecf.toronto.edu, please put 'FAQ' somewhere\nin the subject line so that my mail filter will put it in the correct\nmail folder.\n\nPlease DO NOT ask me questions that are not answered in the FAQ. I do not\nhave time to respond to these individually. Instead, post your question\nto the net, and send me the question and answer together when you get it.\n\nFrequently Asked Questions About X on Intel-based Unix (with answers)\n=====================================================================\n\nI) What options do I have for X software on my Intel-based Unix system?\n\n1. Free options\n\tThe BEST option is XFree86, which is an enhanced version of X386 1.2.\n\tAny other version of X386 will have slower performance, and will\n\tbe more difficult to compile. Information on how to obtain XFree86\n\tis listed below.\n\n\tX386 is the port of the X11 server to System V/386 that was\n\tdone by Thomas Roell (roell@sgcs.com).\n\tIt supports a wide variety of SVGA boards.\n\tThere are 2 major free versions: X386 1.1 is based on X11R4,\n\tX386 1.2 is included in MIT's X11R5 distribution (ie. you\n\tdon't need to patch it into the MIT source any more).\n\tX386 1.3 is the current commercial offering from SGCS (see below).\n\n2. Commercial options\n\n 1) Metro Link\n\t2213 W. McNab Road\n\tPompano Beach, FL 33069\n\t(305) 970-7353\n\tFax: (305) 970-7351\n\temail: sales@metrolink.com\n\n\tSummary: OS: QNX, SVR3, SVR4.[012], SCO, UnixWare, LynxOS, \n\t\t\tDESQview/X, Venix, ISC, Solaris, Pyramid, SunOS\n\t\t HW: EGA, VGA, SVGA, TIGA, TARGA, 8514/A, Mach, \n\t\t\tS3, WD, Fujistu, Matrox, Microfield Graphics, R33020\n\t\t Other: Motif, OpenLook/XView, XIE Imaging Extension,\n\t\t\tXv Video Extension, Audio Drivers, Multi Media\n\n 2) SGCS (Snitily Graphics Consulting Services)\n\t894 Brookgrove Lane\n\tCupertino, CA 95014\n\t(800) 645-5501, (408) 255-9665\n\tFax: (408) 255-9740\n\temail: info@sgcs.com or ...!mips!zok!info\n\n\tSummary: OS: SVR3.2, SVR4 \n\t\t HW: 8514/A (ATI Ultra), S3 (Diamond Stealth), SVGA\n\t\t Other: Motif, Dual-headed server\n\n 3) Consensys Corporation\n\t1301 Pat Booker Rd.\n\tUniversal City, TX 78148\n\tPhone: 1-800-388-1896\n\tFAX: 1-416-940-2903\n\temail: info@consensys.com\n\n\tSummary: OS: Consensys V4.2, Consensys' version of\n\t\t Unix System V Release 4.2\n\t\t HW: X11R4 server support for VGA, SVGA\n\t\t Other: MoOLIT, Motif, X11R5 Clients\n\n 4) The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.\n\tp.o. box 1900\n\tSanta Cruz, California 95061\n\t(408) 425 7222, (800) SCO UNIX,\n\tFAX: (408) 458 4227\n\temail: info@sco.com\n\n\tSummary: OS: ODT 1.1, ODT 2.0, SCO Unix 3.2v4\n\t\t HW: X11R4 server support for SVGA, 8514/A, S3, TMS340x0,\n\t\t WD90C31, XGA2, assorted local bus (see SCO Hardware\n\t\t Compatabilty Guide for actual card vendors).\n\t\t Other: Motif\t\n\n 5) Answer Software & Consulting\n\tp.o. box 14171\n\tColumbus, Ohio 43214\n\t614-263-XLAB\n\temail: sales@x4coher.com\n\n\tSummary: OS: Coherent 4.0.1r72 or greater\n\t\t HW: works with any VESA compliant video\n\n NOTE: Other commercial vendors (including OS vendors describing\n\tbundled software) are welcome to submit summary information\n\tsummary information such as the above.\n\nII) What is XFree86 and where do I get it?\n\n3. What is XFree86?\n\n XFree86 is an enhanced version of X386 1.2, which was distributed with\n X11R5. This release consists of many bug fixes, speed improvements, and\n other enhancements. Here are the highlights of the enhancements:\n\n 1) The SpeedUp package from Glenn Lai is an integral part of XFree86,\n selectable at run-time via the Xconfig file. Some SpeedUps require\n an ET4000 based SVGA, and others require a virtual screen width of\n 1024. The SpeedUps suitable to the configuration are selected by\n default. With a high-quality ET4000 board (VRAM), this can yield\n up to 40% improvement of the xStones benchmark over X386 1.2.\n 2) The fX386 packages from Jim Tsillas are included as the default\n operating mode if SpeedUp is not selected. This mode is now\n equivalent in performance to X386 1.1b (X11R4), and approximately\n 20% faster than X386 1.2.\n 3) Support for LOCALCONN, compile-time selectable for server, clients,\n or both. This support is for both SVR3.2 and SVR4. For SVR4.0.4\n with the 'Advanced Compatibility Package', local connections from\n SCO XSight/ODT clients are supported.\n 4) Drivers for ATI and Trident TVGA8900C and TVGA9000 SVGA chipsets.\n Refer to the files README.ati and README.trident for details about\n the ATI and Trident drivers.\n 5) Support for compressed bitmap fonts has been added (Thomas Eberhardt's\n code from the contrib directory on export.lcs.mit.edu).\n 6) Type1 Font code from MIT contrib tape has been included, and is\n compile-time selectable. There are contributed Type1 fonts in the\n contrib directory on export.lcs.mit.edu.\n 7) New configuration method which allows the server's drivers and font\n renderers to be reconfigured from both source and binary\n distributions.\n 8) Integrated support for 386BSD, Mach, and Linux.\n 9) A monochrome version of the server which will run on generic VGA\n cards is now included.\n\n The following key features were added with the release of XFree86 1.2\n (they were not in XFree86 1.1):\n\n 1) The monochrome server has been enhanced to do bank-switching of\n available SVGA memory to allow virtual screens up to 1600x1200 \n (see the X386(1) manual page for more information).\n 2) Support for the Hercules mono card has been added to the\n monochrome server, and with it the ability to support a \"two\n headed\" server - one VGA, and one Hercules. So far this has only\n been tested on SVR4 (it is also reported to work under Linux).\n 3) SVR3 shared libraries, tested under ISC SVR3 2.2 and 3.0.1.\n 4) Support for SVR4.2 (There are some special considerations to\n consider, due to new USL bugs; see the README.SVR4 file for\n more information.)\n 5) Support for PS/2 mice, and Logitech MouseMan/TrackMan (some \n versions of these devices were not previously compatible).\n 6) A new tutorial on how to develop correct video card and monitor\n timing data, written by Eric Raymond (derived from previous\n documentation and a lot of experimentation).\n 7) Greatly improved support for international keyboards, including\n implementation of the Compose key functionality found on many \n vendor servers (see the X386keybd(1) manual page for more \n information).\n 8) The accuracy with which the server detects SVGA pixel clocks has\n been improved, and the timings are now stored at accuracies of\n 0.1 MHz. Users may want to consider removing an existing Clocks\n line from their Xconfig file and re-probing using the new server.\n 9) Many enhancements in error handling and parsing of the Xconfig\n configuration file. Error messages are much more informative\n and intuitive, and more validation is done. There are many new\n options that can be enabled in the Xconfig file (see the X386(1) \n manual page for more information on the format of this file).\n\n Plus a number of other small things. Refer to the CHANGELOG file\n in the source distribution for full details.\n\n Also included are a tutorial on monitor timing by Eric Raymond, and the\n current X386 mode database and a sample xdm configuration by David Wexelblat.\n\n4. What OSs are supported?\n\n XFree86 supports:\n\tSVR4.2: Consensys V4.2\n\tSVR4.0: Microport, Dell, Esix, ISC, AT&T, MST, Consensys, UHC\n\tSVR3: ISC 2.2 & 3.0, AT&T 2.2\n\tLinux, Mach 386, 386BSD 0.1\n\n\tBSD/386 is not supported, but it should work. The most active\n\tBSD/386 person is Greg Lehey .\n\n\tNote that Esix 3.2D and SCO are not supported yet,\n\tbut anyone should feel free to submit patches.\n\tIf you are interested in tackling this, send mail to\n\txfree86@physics.su.oz.au\n\n5. What video hardware is supported?\n\n At this time, XFree86 1.2 supports the following SVGA chipsets:\n\n\tTseng ET4000\n\tTseng ET3000\n\tParadise PVGA1\n\tWestern Digital WD90C00, WD90C10, WD90C11 (these are supersets of\n\t\tthe PVGA1, and use its driver)\n\tGenoa GVGA\n\tTrident TVGA8900C, TVGA9000\n\tATI 18800, 28800\n\n\tAll of the above are supported in both 256 color and monochrome modes,\n\twith the exception of the ATI chipsets, which are only supported in\n\t256 color mode.\n\n\tThe monochrome server also supports generic VGA cards, using 64k of\n\tvideo memory in a single bank, and the Hercules card. On the\n\tET3000, only 64k of video memory is supported for the monochrome\n\tserver, and the GVGA has not been tested with more than 64k.\n\n\tIt appears that some of the SVGA card manufacturers are going to\n\tnon-traditional mechanisms for selecting pixel-clock frequencies. To\n\tavoid having to modify the server to accommodate these schemes XFree86\n\t1.2 adds support for using an external program to select the pixel\n\tclock. This allows programs to be written as new mechanisms are\n\tdiscovered. Refer to the README.clkprog file for information on how\n\tthese programs work, if you need to write one. If you do develop such\n\ta program, the XFree86 team would be interested in including it with\n\tfuture XFree86 releases.\n\n\tIf you are purchasing new hardware for the purpose of using XFree86,\n\tit is suggested that you purchase an ET4000-based board such as the\n\tOrchid ProDesigner IIs. Avoid recent Diamond boards; XFree86 will not\n\twork with them, because Diamond won't provide programming details.\n\tIn fact, the XFree86 project is actively not supporting new Diamond\n\tproducts, as long as such policies remain in effect. Contributions\n\tof code will NOT be accepted (because of the potential liabilities).\n\tIf you would like to see this change, tell Diamond about it.\n\n\tSome people have asked if XFree86 would work with local bus or EISA\n\tvideo cards. Theoretically, the means of communication between the\n\tCPU and the video card is irrelevant to Xfree86 compatibility. It\n\tcould be ISA, EISA, or local bus. What should matter is the chipset\n\ton the video card. Unfortunately, the developers don't have a lot\n\tof access to EISA or VLB machines, so this is largely an untested\n\ttheory. However, we have yet to see any reports of things not\n\tworking on one of these buses and we have several reports of Xfree86\n\tworking fine on them.\n\n6. What about accelerated boards?\n\n\tAt this time, there is no support in XFree86 for accelerated boards\n\tlike the S3, ATI Ultra (8514/A), TIGA, etc. This support is available\n\tin commercial products from SGCS and MetroLink (for SVR3 and SVR4).\n\n\tAn S3 server is available for 386BSD and Linux. Contact\n\t for 386BSD or for Linux.\n\n\tA beta 8514/A server is available for Linux. Contact \n\tor . Note: these servers are NOT part of XFree86.\n\n7. Why doesn't XFree86 support 16-color VGA modes?\n\n\tThe reason that this is not supported is the way VGA implements the\n\t16-color modes. In 256-color modes, each byte of frame buffer memory\n\tcontains 1 pixel. But the 16-color modes are implemented as bit-\n\tplanes. Each byte of frame- buffer memory contains 1 bit from each\n\tof each of 8 pixels, and there are four such planes. The MIT frame-\n\tbuffer code is not designed to deal with this. If VGA handled\n\t16-color modes by packing 2 4-bit pixels into each byte, the MIT code\n\tcould be modified to support this (or it already may; I'm not sure).\n\tBut for the VGA way of doing things, a complete new frame-buffer\n\timplementation is required. Some beta testers are looking into this,\n\tbut nothing is yet available from the project.\n\n8. What other hardware or software requirements are there?\n\n\tObviously, a supported SVGA board and OS are required. To run\n\tX efficiently, 12-16MB of memory should be considered a minimum.\n\tThe various binary releases take 10-40MB of disk space, depending\n\ton the OS (e.g. whether or not it supports shared libraries).\n\tTo build from sources, at least 80MB of free disk space will\n\tbe required, although 120MB should be considered a comfortable \n\tlower bound.\n\n9. Where can I get source for XFree86?\n\n\tSource patches for the current version (1.2, based on X11R5 PL22\n\tfrom MIT), are available via anonymous FTP from:\n\t\texport.lcs.mit.edu (under /contrib/XFree86)\n\t\tftp.physics.su.oz.au (under /XFree86)\n\t\tftp.win.tue.nl (under /pub/XFree86)\n\t(For the rest of this FAQ, these 3 location will be called $FTP)\n\n\tRefer to the README file under the specified directory for information\n\ton which files you need to get to build your distribution.\n\n10. Where can I get binaries for XFree86?\n\n\tBinaries are available via anonymous FTP from:\n\t\tftp.physics.su.oz.au\t\t- SVR4 binaries\n\t\t\tunder /XFree86/SVR4\n\t\tftp.win.tue.nl\t\t\t- SVR4 binaries\n\t\t\tunder /pub/XFree86/SVR4\n\t\tferkel.ucsb.edu\t\t\t- SVR4 binaries\n\t\t\tunder /pub/SVR4/XFree86\n\t\tstasi.bradley.edu\t\t- SVR4 binaries\n\t\t\tunder /pub/XFree86/SVR4\n\t\tblancmange.ma.utexas.edu\t- SVR3 (ISC) binaries\n\t\t\tunder /pub/ISC\n\t\tftp.prz.tu-berlin.de - SVR3 (ISC) binaries\n\t\t\tunder /pub/pc/isc/XFree86\n\t\ttsx-11.mit.edu\t\t\t- Linux binaries\n\t\t\tunder /pub/linux/packages/X11\n\t\tagate.berkeley.edu\t\t- 386BSD binaries\n\t\t\tunder /pub/386BSD/0.1-ports/XFree86\n\t\tftp.cs.uwm.edu\t\t\t- Mach binaries\n\t\t\tunder /i386\n\n\tEnsure that you are getting XFree86 1.2 - some of these sites may\n\tarchive older releases as well. Each binary distribution will\n\tcontain a README file that describes what files you need to take\n\tfrom the archive, and which compile-time option selections were\n\tmade when building the distribution.\n\nIV) What general things should I know about running XFree86?\n\n11. Installation directories\n\n\tThe top-level installation directory is specified by the ProjectRoot\n\t(/usr/X386, by default) variable in config/site.def. Binaries, include\n\tfiles, and libraries are installed in $ProjectRoot/{bin,include,lib}.\n\n\tThis can be changed when rebuilding from sources, and can be modified\n\tvia symbolic links for those OSs that support them. This directory is\n\tnonstandard, and was chosen this way to allow XFree86 to be installed\n\talongside a commercial/vendor-supplied X implementation.\n\n12. Configuration files\n\n\tThe XFree86 server reads a configuration file (\"Xconfig\") on startup.\n\tThe search path, contents and syntax for this file are documented in\n\tthe server manpage, which should be consulted before asking questions.\n\n13. Determining VGA dot clocks and monitor modes\n\n\tDavid E Wexelblat (dwex@mtgzfs3.att.com) maintains a database of known\n\tclock settings for VGA cards and monitor settings.\n\tThe database is installed in /usr/X386/lib/X11/etc/modeDB.txt, and\n\tis in the source tree under mit/server/ddx/x386/etc. This database is\n\talso available from him (for the latest copy), and is kept on\n\texport.lcs.mit.edu in ~/contrib/X386.modeDB.Z, which is updated\n\toccasionally. Obtain a copy of this database. It just might have the\n\tsettings you need. If you create new settings, please send them to\n\tDavid for inclusion in the database.\n\n\tIf this doesn't help you, the VideoModes.doc (by Eric Raymond) file \n\twith XFree86 contains tutorials on how to come up with these timings.\n\tIt may be helpful to start with settings that almost work, and use\n\tthis description to get them right. When you do, send the information\n\tto David Wexelblat for inclusion in the database.\n\n\tNOTE: The old 'clock.exe' program is not supported any more, and\n\t is completely unnecessary. If you need to determine dot\n\t clock values for a new board, remove the 'Clocks' line from\n\t your Xconfig file (if present), and start the server. The\n\t server will probe for clocks itself and print them out.\n\t You can use these values to put a 'Clocks' line into your\n\t Xconfig file, which is not necessary, but will speed up\n\t starting the server in the future.\n\n14. Rebuilding/reconfiguring the server from the link kit\n\n\tIf you have installed the server Binary Link Kit, it is possible to\n\treconfigure the drivers and font renderers in the server. This is\n\tfully explained in the README file that is available with the link kit.\n\nV) What OS-specific things should I know about running XFree86?\n\n\tFirst of all, the server must be installed suid-root (mode 4755).\n\n15. SVR4\n\tWhy won't my xterm run properly?\n\n\tIf your kernel is not built with the consem module, you should define\n\tCONSEM=no in you environment. Otherwise xterm won't run.\n\tcsh users should use 'setenv CONSEM no'\n\n\tThe Esix console driver patch 403019 is known to cause keymapping\n\tproblems with XFree86. It recommended that this patch not be\n\tinstalled. Alternatively they keymap can be fixed with xmodmap.\n\n16. SVR3\n\n\tMake sure you look at $FTP/README.ISC, if that's what you are running.\n\n17. 386BSD\n\n\tMake sure you look at $FTP/README.386BSD.\n\n\tAlso, a separate 386BSD FAQ is maintained by Richard Murphey\n\t. The latest version should be available in the\n\tfile XFree86-1.2-386BSD-FAQ at the following ftp sites:\n\n\t agate.berkeley.edu:/pub/386BSD/0.1-ports/XFree86-1.2\n\t wuarchive.wustl.edu:/mirrors4/386bsd/0.1-ports/XFree86-1.2\n\t grasp1.univ-lyon1.fr:pub/386BSD/0.1-ports/XFree86-1.2\n\n18. Linux\n\n\tYou must be running Linux 0.97pl4 or greater, and have the 4.1 gcc\n\tjump libraries installed.\n\n\tMake sure the binaries X386, X386mono, xload and xterm are setuid root.\n\n\tIf your kernel doesn't have TCP support compiled in, you'll have to\n\trun the server as \"X -pn\". The default startup configuration assumes\n\tthat TCP is not available. If it is, change the two files\n\t/usr/X386/bin/startx and /usr/X386/lib/X11/xdm/Xservers, removing the\n\t-pn argument to X386.\n\n\tMake sure /dev/console is either a link to /dev/tty0 or has the major\n\tnumber 4, minor number 0. Also note that if /dev/console is not\n\towned by the user running X, then xconsole and xterm will not permit\n\tconsole output redirection. Xdm will properly change the owner, but\n\tstartx won't.\n\n\tWhen running xdm from rc.local, you will need to provide it with\n\ta tty, for example \"xdm < /dev/console &\".\n\n\tFor more detailed information, please read the file README present\n\twith the distribution on tsx-11.mit.edu.\n\n19. Mach\n\n\tMake sure you look at $FTP/README.Mach.\n\nVI) What things should I know for building XFree86 from source?\n\n\tThis section has been removed from the FAQ, since it is\n\tfully explained in $FTP/README and the OS-specific READMEs.\n\tPlease look at those files for information on building XFree86.\n\nVII) Is there anything special about building clients with XFree86?\n\n20. BSD compatibility library\n\n\tA lot of clients make use of BSD functions like bcopy(), etc.\n\tThe default configuration files are set up to link with libXbsd.a\n\twhich contains emulation for bcopy(), bzero(), bcmp(), ffs(), random(),\n\tseed(). A better way of providing the 'b' functions is to include\n\t in source files that call them. Xfuncs.h provides macro\n\tdefinitions for these in terms of the SYSV 'mem' functions. If you are\n\tlinking with a vendor supplied library which calls some of these\n\tfunctions, then you should link with libXbsd.a\n\n21. ANSICCOPTIONS\n\n\tThis is something that was added to allow a developer to get rid of the\n\tANSI-ness defined in the default CCOPTIONS without having to rewrite\n\tthe entire CCOPTIONS line. For example, with stock MIT, you'd see\n\tsomething like\n\t\tCCOPTIONS=\"-ansi -O2 -fwritable-strings\"\n\tand to get rid of the ANSI-ness, the developer would have to put\n\t\tCCOPTIONS=\"-O2 -fwritable-strings\"\n\tin his Imakefile. With this change, you would see a default of\n\t\tANSICCOPTIONS=\"-ansi\"\n\t\tCCOPTIONS=\"-O2 -fwritable-strings\"\n\tand all the developer would have to put in the Imakefile is:\n\t\tANSICCOPTIONS=\n\tto get rid of the ANSI-ness (many X clients will die a horrible death\n\twith -ansi). The effect is even more dramatic in practice, because\n\tCCOPTIONS is actually quite complex. The other issue is that one must\n\tadd 'ANSICCOPTIONS=$(ANSICCOPTIONS)' to a PassCDebugFlags definition.\n\nXFree86 Contact Information\n\n Ongoing development planning and support is coordinated by the XFree86\n Core Team. At this time the Core Team consists of:\n\n\tThe original \"gang of four\":\n\t\tDavid Dawes \n\t\tGlenn Lai \n\t\tJim Tsillas \n\t\tDavid Wexelblat \n\n\tThose supporting non-SYSV operating systems:\n\t\tRobert Baron [Mach]\n\t\tRich Murphey [386BSD]\n\t\tOrest Zborowski [Linux]\n\n e-mail sent to will reach all of the core team.\n\n\t--------------------------------------------------\n\nThanks to all the people who already sent me corrections or additions,\nespecially David Wexelblat (one of the major contributors of updates).", "Hello,\n\n\tI have a 486sx25 ISA machine with Pheonix BIOS. Currently I have \n8 megabytes of RAM installed via eight 1 MG SIMMS on the motherboard: ie. \nboth banks are full, and there is no space for more SIMMS. I am thinking \nof running OS2 on my machine and Possibly Linux with X windows, and I know \nthat more RAM would be helpful. However with SIMMS, the only solution I \ncan see is to sell my 8 Megs for about $180, and by 4 4mg SIMMS for about \n$400 used. Apart from the fact that I can't afford the price right now, \nthe entire process of selling RAM and buying it used probably means that \nthe machine might be down for a number of days which I would rather \navoid...\n\nSo my question is, do the AT RAM boards that plug into a free slot work \nwell with a 486 ISA machine. I have seen some being sold used for about \n$90 with 4 Mg with space for another 4Mg's. If these boards do work, how \ndo they do it? Is a device driver needed, or will the BIOS pickup the \nextra RAM as it does with the SIMMS on the mother board? I know that the \nISA expansions slots are 16-bits and 486 SIMM memory is 32 bits, so \nprobably all of this is just wishful thinking... However any help is truly \nappreciated.\n\n-Eric", "\n\n\n Try graPHIGS from IBM... It is an excellent package! :^)\n\nDoug\n ", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\nLook be consistent. First you post something that seems to suggest that you see\nxv being an 8 bit program as some sort of error. \nSo I post and asy it is not a bug, it is meant to be like that. \nSo you post and say it is not a bug, you never said it was, I have misunderstood\netc.\nNow you are saying:\n\n\nIf you would make up your mind what you are claiming it would make the\ndiscussion a *lot* easier.\n\n----------------\n\n\nEh? Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying here. I am aware that English is\nnot your native language and have tried hard to fathom your meaning, but this\nparagraph defeats me.\n\n\nYes *as I originally said*, global changes are easily possible.\n\nBut this statement contradicts what you said earlier: \n\n\n---------------\n\n\n\nNo I don't think so actually. \n\nYou were talking about loading a 24 bit image into xv (by quantising),\nmanipulating the colours in the colour editor, then somewhow applying these\nchanges to the 24 bit file when you exit xv. Xv lets you edit individual\ncolours. Where is this sudden jumping off the topic?\n\n\nYes I am aware there is no colourmap in a 24 bit file!!\n\n\nI do not understand what this statement is supposed to mean.\n\n\n???\nWhat are you saying\n???\n\n\nAh! now we see thew problem! First you want to extend xv to allow editing of 8\nbit previews of 24 bit images. Then I point out problems with this. Now you are\nsaying there is no problem because you, personally, happen not to use those\nparts of the program that cause the problem!!\n\n\n\nNot sure what you are saying here. Certainly one can make local changes.\n\n\nYes that is one possible approach. I would find a program that took such an\napproach clumsy, however.\n\n\nWell here we agree - you have not thought it through very much. You don't seem\nto have a consistent point to make and contradict yourself from one post to the\nnext. OK, we all have off days - perhaps you should step back and think this one\nthrough.\n\n\n\nAs I said in the last post, JPEG is a compression algorithm. It is a way of\nsaving disk space by trading off quality against compression. I fail to see what\nthe problem is. You have not proposed any workable alternatives.\n\n\nSpeak for yourself. You are the *only* person I have met or spoken to who,\nhaving quantised a 24 bit image down to 8 bits, expects this process to somehow\nreverse when the file is saved; keeping all modificvations that heve been made\nto the 8 bit image palette.\n\nPerhaps that is why you yused the singular?\n\n\nLook, next time you import a 24 bit image into xv look carefully at the main\ncontrol panel - it tells you how many colours have been allocated to the 8 bit\nimage. XV makes it abundantly clear that you are not editing the original 24 bit\nfile. You are the *only* person who claims this is confusing.\n\n\nIs a design error the same as a bug? ;-)\n\nRead my lips. XV is a program for viewing and modifying 8 bit images. It lets\nyou import other images. It shows, I would say, a good deal of thought about the\nhuman interface. And everyone else seems to use it happily for the purpose it\nwas designed for. It makes no false claims.\n\n\nIf you would come up with a solid, logical, well argued and lucid description of\nprecisely how these proposed extensions would work, feel free to post them. So \nfar, you have not done so.\n\n\nArgh!! After all this, a comment like that. `Very easily'. OK, go ahead and code it\nif it is so easy.\n\nOr alternatively, look up the terms `import' and 'non-reversible transformation'.\n\n\nI think this is a bit of an exageration.\n\nWhat you are actually saying is, you got into a lift (elevator, if you are in\nthe states ;-) ) and mistakenly pressed the down button to go up. Everyone else\nhad no problem. Now you are trying to sue the manufacturer...\n\n\nyou bet\n\n\nMostly. Leaving aside the language issue however, it betrays some very wooly\nthinking (as you yourself admit) which is the same in any language. Go think\nsome more.\n\n--\nChris Lilley\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTechnical Author, ITTI Computer Graphics and Visualisation Training Project\nComputer Graphics Unit, Manchester Computing Centre, Oxford Road, \nManchester, UK. M13 9PL Internet: C.C.Lilley@mcc.ac.uk \nVoice: +44 (0)61 275 6045 Fax: +44 (0)61 275 6040 Janet: C.C.Lilley@uk.ac.mcc", "Thanks to all those people who recommended Workspace managers for\nWindows 3.1. I found 3 shareware Workspace Managers, from Australia's\nMS-WINDOWS archive (monu6.cc.monash.edu.au), which mirrors some\nsites in the U.S. The three I found were:\n\n1. WORKSPACES 1.10 (wspace.zip)\n This was the smallest and simplest\n of the workspace managers that I found. It is very easy to use.\n It displays a small window, containing 6 buttons, plus an extra\n button for configuration purposes. One annoying feature was the\n title window that is first presented when it is run - you must press\n a key (not a mouse button!) for the thing to go away. Also, it would\n have been nice if there was an \"ALWAYS ON TOP\" setting for the little\n window containing the workspace buttons. Maybe some user-specified\n strings on the buttons instead of the numbers one to six might be\n a nice feature. The simplicity and ease of use of this workspace\n manager makes it an attractive package.\n\n2. WORKSHIFT 1.6 (wrksft16.zip)\n While this workspace manager offered a\n few features that WORKSPACES 1.10 lacked, it was quite time consuming\n to set things up. With WORKSPACES 1.10, all but the first workspace\n is initially empty. With WORKSHIFT 1.6, you need to take \"snapshots\"\n of how you want each of your workspaces to look like - i.e. what \n applications they contain. Also, the main window is quite large,\n but this does allow you to have a small view of what is in each workspace.\n With WORKSPACES 1.10, there was no facility for viewing what was in\n a workspace without switching to it. WORKSHIFT 1.6 provides this\n viewing functionality which is quite useful.\n\n3. BIGDESK 2.30 and BACKMENU (backdesk.zip)\n This is an interesting package, which contains\n a few other goodies as well as a workspace manager. Other goodies\n include \"Backmenu\", which provides a pop-up root menu when you\n press a certain mouse button - just like in X-Windows. The menu\n is totally configurable, offering unlimited depth of cascading menus,\n which is provides quite handy access to applications. You could\n say it is a menu-based alternative to the program manager. Also\n bundled in \"backdesk.zip\" is a program called \"WRUN\", which allows\n you to run windows applications from a DOS shell under WINDOWS\n instead of using the File Manager to run applications. \n The actual workspace manager is called BIGDESK 2.30. BIGDESK works quite\n differently to the other two workspace managers in that it\n doesn't provide a certain number of disjoint and separate workspaces.\n In fact, it basically enlarges your desktop by a configurable amount,\n and you choose which region of the desktop you want your screen to\n focus in on. This means you can have windows overlapping between different\n viewing regions, unlike the first two workspace managers in which\n each workspace was isolated from the other one. The BIGDESK control window\n allows to to move windows around your enlarged desktop. Basically\n the control window provides a small scale view of your viewing area\n while your actual computer screen provides a large scale or blow-up\n of a particular section.", "\nIt is actually worse than you think. I have the same problem, and have\ngiven up. Emacs has an internal table (somewhere!) which defines what\nkeys it will accept, and this table is system-dependent. I use a Sun\nfrom my HP, and cannot get 'shift PageUp' to work - xmodmap is not\nsufficient, or at least I haven't worked out how to make it work.\nHowever, I CAN get ordinary 'PageUp' and 'shift CursorRight' to work,\nand I do some customised things with them.\n\nNote that the Emacs on my HP has no problem, and I am using exactly\nthe same xmodmap and Emacs configuration.\n", "Has anyone written a device driver to use the Ascension bird with XWindows ? \n\n\n __ \n (_ / / o_ o o |_\n __)/(_( __) (_(_ /_)| )_\n", "This is yet for a friend again.\n\nEMS Freq. Shifter. (The machine that made those 3-D swirling guitar effects\n way back in the 70's.)\n\nSpacial panner with harmonic shifting. Very rare - A collectors Item. This\nis the last unit EMS ever made. Rack mountable. Mono in, Up/Down signals out\nwith seperate Pan out and sine/unsine voltage outs. VCO input too to control\nLFO. If interested contact Kevin before 9 pm PST (California) at 818-362-7883\nand make an offer.\n\nDo not reply to this account.\n\nHave a nice day\n\n__________________________________________________________________________\n | / |\\\n | H E \\ Y B E R |/ E N [ xorcist@cyberden.sf.ca.us ]", "Get the generic version (for Unix and VMS) and build it. IMHO a\nVMS .com file to build it is supplied.\nAs the distribution comes as .tar.Z you should either have uncompress\nand tar on VMS or a UNIX flavoured machine handy.\nUsually you won't find this on IBM-PC specific archives, but on the better\nones :)\n", "I currently use a window manager called ctwm which\nis very similar to hp's vuewm. (i.e. \nit has multiple workspaces). Is there a \nmotif based window manager that has this \nsame feature and is not a memory pig like vue?\n\n\n\nmike\n", "I have a few the original IBM 10Mb harddisks for sale. They are actually\nSeagate's ST412, MFM, full height, has the IBM logo and black face plate. \n \n Each disk is checked and formatted with DOS 6.0. It can be doubled to \n20Mb or so with dblspace or stacker if you so desire. Have the original IBM\nfoam fitted boxies and anti-static bags. I am not sure if they were ever \nused, but each drive that is sent out will be quarenteed in good working order. \n \n $30 each plus shipping cost, (about $5), ", "\nI understand that Adobe is working on making Photoshop available for\nthe SGI Indigo, but that is just \"rumor\" and I wouldn't bet on it\nuntil I see it. But they >are< going to release Illustrator for the SGI\n\"real soon now.\"\n", ": >>point of view, why does SCSI have an advantage when it comes to multi-\n: >>tasking? Data is data, and it could be anywhere on the drive. Can\n: >>SCSI find it faster? can it get it off the drive and into the computer\n: >>faster? Does it have a better cache system? I thought SCSI was good at\n: >>managing a data bus when multiple devices are attached. If we are\n: >>only talking about a single drive, explain why SCSI is inherently\n: >>faster at managing data from a hard drive.\n\n: >IDE: Integrated Device Electronics \n: > currently the most common standard, and is mainly used for medium sized \n: > drives. Can have more than one hard drive. Asynchronous Transfer: ~5MB/s max.\n\n: Why don't you start with the spec-sheet of the ISA bus first?\n: You can quote SCSI specs till you're blue in the face, but if they\n: exceed the ISA bus capability, then what's the point?\n\nWho said ISA was necessary? EISA or VLB are the only interfaces worth\ninvesting thousands of dollars (e.g. a new pc's worth of money ) in .\n\n: Who says IDE is limited to 5 megs/sec? What about VLB-IDE? Does anyone\n: know how they perform?\n\nYou didn't read to carefully. VLB-IDE uses the same connection mechanism\nas standard IDE. If transfer rate is limited by IDE, whether it's\ninterfaced to ISA, EISA or VLB matters not.\n\n: >So at its LOWEST setting SCSI-2 interface in Asynchronous SCSI-1 mode AVERAGES \n: >the through put MAXIMUM of IDE in asynchronous mode. In full SCSI-2 mode\n: >it blows poor IDE out the window, down the street, and into the garbage can.\n: As implimented on what system? \n\nOn mine, for one thing. SCSI blows IDE out of the water, hands down. If\nIDE has better throughput, why isn't it used on workstations and file\nservers? \n\n: >The problem becomes can the drive mechanisim keep up with those through put\n: >rates and THAT is where the bottleneck and cost of SCSI-2 comes from. NOT\n: >the interface itself but more and more from drive mechanisims to use the\n: >SCSI-2 through put. \n\n: Given the original question (SCSI used only as a single hard drive\n: controller), is it then necessary to get a SCSI drive that will do\n: at least 5, maybe 10 megs/sec for the SCSI choice to make any sence?\n: What does a 200-400 meg 5 megs/sec SCSI drive cost?\n\nNo, that's the nice thing -- on a multitasking OS, SCSI can use both drives\nat once. I've got unix loaded on one of my pcs (along with windogs) and the OS can only use one of the two IDE drives at one time. It's pretty ugly.\n\nI just bought at Quantum 240 for my mac at home. I paid $369 for it. I\nhaven't seen IDE drives cheaper.\n\n: The original CGA cart back in '84 was $300. I think the original EGA card\n: (or PGA?) was $800. SCSI has stood relatively alone in not coming down\n: in price, mainly because we're talking about PC's and not Sun's or Sparc\n: or SGI or (name your favorite unix workstation). That is, after millions\n: of PC buying decisions over the years, SCSI has had plenty of time to\n: come down in price.\n\nNo, actually, we're talking about SCSI being expensive simply because\nnobody did a common interface for the PC. If they had a common (read:\neasily implemented) method of adding scsi to a PC (like as in a Sun or\nMac), then you'd find SCSI the connection medium of choice.\n\n: I won't argue that the SCSI standard makes for a good, well implimented\n: data highway, but I still want to know why it intrinsically better\n: (than IDE, on an ISA bus) when it comes to multi-tasking OS's when\n: managing data from a single SCSI hard drive.\n\nOn a single drive, SCSI is more expensive. But, you bought your PC for\nexpandibility, so, you'd want to add more drives or whatever. The\nfollowing are why I find SCSI intrinsically better than IDE:\n\nA (partial?) list:\n\t1. You can add many different types of devices and access them \n\tconcurrently.\n\t2. A SCSI device works on many different machines (I have a mac\n\tand a PC at home and moving hard drives between them is VERY nice\n\twith SCSI -- hook them up and away they go)\n\t3. SCSI devices work together better than IDE devices. For\n\tinstance, recently, I added an older connor 100 meg IDE to a maxtor\n\t212 meg IDE. The connor *MUST* be setup as the slave. It will\n\twork no other way. On SCSI, you set the address, check the\n\ttermination, plug it in, and away it goes.\n\t4. I have a problem with IDE's mutual exclusion - I notice that\n\tthe time it takes to switch from accessing drive c: to drive d: is\n\tquite long as compared to the time it takes to switch from drive c:\n\tto d: on a SCSI system. Under a multitasking OS, this is very\n\tnoticable, as many things can be going on at once.\n\nOne neat thing that I've noticed lately (a fringe benefit) has been the\nability to add older (almost dead) drives as storage on a SCSI system with\nlittle problem -- we've got a bunch of almost dead 20 meg drives that I've\nadded to my PC. I've now got the interface full, but, it does allow me to\nhave 4 20 meg drives, 1 240 meg drive, 1 tape drive, and 1 105 meg drive\nall on the same card. \n\nSimply put, SCSI is handier than IDE. No mysterious jumpers to figure out.\n\nGreg.", "\n\nYou don't, and never had to. That's what enhanced shells are for. Remember \n4DOS and NDOS? I mean, come on, you can't expect DOS to cover everything \nfrom R1.0. Microsoft has other projects to work on.\n\n\nI don't think they deliberately crippled the project. On the other hand, it \nIS a technical achievement for what it does considering that it rides on\ntop of DOS. I mean, you get a GUI with reasonable speed on a PC. With \nXWindows running on top of Linux or something similar you're still gonna \nneed a fast processor.\n\n[Re: DOS's death]\n\nExcept for the people who use DOS programs, which means about 75% or more of \nthe business world.", "Hi,\n\n\tI have a few question about graphics programming in VGA/SVGA :\n\n1. How VESA standard works? Any documentation for VESA standard?\n\n2. At a higher resolution than 320x200x256 or 640x480x16 VGA mode,\n where the video memory A0000-AFFFF is no longer sufficient to hold\n all info, what is the trick to do fast image manipulation? I\n heard about memory mapping or video memory bank switching but know\n nothing on how it is implemented. Any advice, anyone? \n\n3. My interest is in 640x480x256 mode. Should this mode be called\n SVGA mode? What is the technique for fast image scrolling for the\n above mode? How to deal with different SVGA cards?\n\n\n Your guidance to books or any other sources to the above questions\nwould be greatly appreciated. Please send me mail.\n\n\n Thanks in advance!\n\n\n\n************************************************************************\n* Tiang T. Foo *\n*\t\t tiang@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu \t\t *\n************************************************************************ ", "E G L I N A F B\n\nFrom: DENNIS L. HART Date: 14-May-1993 02:41pm CST\n HART Tel No: 904 882 3154\nDept: 646CCSG/SCWA*SAS\n\nTO: Internet Addressee ( _SMTP[xpert@expo.lcs.mit.edu] )\n\n\nSubject: VXT2000 Windowing Terminal Help\n\nGreetings!\n\n\nWe have several VXT 2000 Windowing terminals and associated software on our\nnetwork. We are able to open a LAT terminal window to any of our workstation\nnodes but we are unable to get a LAT X session to work.\n\nWe have customized the terminal security to allow all LAT connections.\n\nTrying to invoke a LAT X session from the VXT 2000 results in the following\nmessage being displayed in the terminal manager window message area:\n\nHost Does Not Support X Sessions\n\n(The host is a VAX4000 Model 60 and does support X sessions)\n\n\nOpening a LAT terminal window and logging into the server node, setting the\ndisplay variable as follows:\n\n$ set display/create/node=LAT_###########/transport=lat\n\nand then trying to create a decterm on the VXT as follows:\n\n$ create/term=decterm/detach\n\nFails and gives the following error message:\n\ndectermport failed to find language, XOpenDisplay(\"\") returned NULL\n%DECW-F-CANT-OPEN-DISPL Can't open display\n\nThe VXT 2000 is using its system defaults (ie. default font(s), language, ...)\nexcept for the security options to allow all connections and options enabling \nLAT protocol.\n\nwe have VT1200 windowing terminals and the above things were enough to allow\nLAT X sessions.\n\nVMS Version is 5.5-1\nRunning DECwindows/Motif of VAX4000 Model 60s\n\n\nPlease help.\n", "Complete Communicator, latest vers.\nNew in box\nWorks in DOS or Windows\nOne card you get fax, voicemail and modem. Auto switch, one line handles\nall fax, voicemail and modem communications\n$500 new", "For sale:\n---------\n\nOne complete set of Lifecall Equipment, including the base unit,\nportable transmitter and pendant plus 30 days free monitering service.\n\nDescription of item:\n-------------------\n\nConvenient and secure to anyone:\n\n1. whose home is being broken into\n2. whose parents live alone.\n3. who has children or elderly parents\n4. who suffers a heart attack or stroke\n5. who is temporarily or permanently disabled.\n6. and more.\n\nSuperior features:\n\n1. Allows you to talk to the monitering center using the transmitter;\nhelp will be sent to you as soon as possible.\n2. Allows for personal freedom and independence.\n\nDeal\n----\n\nItem is worth US$2400 in open market. Asking for $2000 or best offer.\nInterested please email at kmgoh@leland.stanford.edu\nor call at (415) 497-0663. Will send the certificate of delivery and\nrelevant documents to you.", "Hi,\n\nI am going through a box of old IBM card and came across one called a \n\nRapid Technology SQUEEZE card. It is dated 1990 and has a 54mhz crystal on\nit and a big chip that has 'C-Cube' on it.\n\nNo connectors to the outside, but a ribbon-type 50-pin connector on the board.\n\nIt is a 16-bit board.\n\nAny ideas what it is?\n\n\nPhil\n\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------\nPhil Hunt \"Wherever you go, there you are!\"\nHowtek, Inc.\t\t ", "\n\tI like it. PGP would be useful, I guess. Although I don't have\na working version for VMS yet... :-(", "Help,\n\n\tI've got an applications with a series of pushbuttons across\n\tthe top (a toolbar). I wanted to add eventhandlers to these\n\tpushbuttons on EnterWindowMask and LeaveWindowMask so that\n\tI can put up some descriptive text about the function of each\n\tpushbutton as the pointer crosses over it.\n\n\tI've done this fine, but I've turned up the following problem:\n\n\tWhen the pushbuttons are sensitive I get callbacks on both of\n\tthe above events, but when they are not sensitive I only get\n\tcallbacks on LeaveWindow events. This seems odd. I would\n\texpect this to be an all-or-nothing type of thing.\n\n\tIs this a bug? If not, can someone explain this behavior?\n\n\tthanks,", "Could someone please tell me what a \n\nLaserWriter IINTX upgrade kit is.\n\nIts a small box, which has a bag inn it , seemingly\ncontaining 6 chips (look like ROMS) and a IINTX manual.\nThe installation instructions are most informative and say, in full,\n\"This product must be installed by an Apple .........\"\n\nSO what does this do ? At first I thought it might be a NT to NTX\nupgrade, but I thought that required an entirely new board.\n\nAny info appreciated.", "I recently purchased a Diamond Stealth 24 Video card\nand received the wrong drivers. Does anyone know where\nI can ftp the windows video drivers for the Stealth 24.\nI tried the drivers at cica and they don't work.\nThe right drivers are on the Diamond BBS but the file is almost\n1 meg and it would take a while to download them\nat 2400 baud. Any information would be appreciated. Please\ncontact me at doug@sun.sws.uiuc.edu\n\nThank you", "TEXAS INSTRUMENTS TI-95 PROCALC new in box w/manuals\n\nalso\n\nTEXAS INSTRUMENTS TI-95 STATISTICS LIBRARY MODULE FOR PROCALC\nnew in box w/manual\n\nand\n\nTEXAS INSTRUMENTS TI-95 CHEMICAL ENGINEERING MODULE FOR PROCALC\nnew in box w/manual\n\nall for $100.00 + shipping", "\n\"Manufacturing Consent,\" a film about the media. You alternative movie source\nmay have this; or to book it in your local alternative theatre, contact:\n\nFILMS TRANSIT * INTERNATIONAL SALES\nJan Rofekamp\n402 Notre Dame E.\nMontreal, Quebec\nCanada H2Y 1C8\nTel (514) 844-3358 * Fax (514) 844-7298\nTelex 5560074 Filmtransmtl\n\n(US readers: call Zeitgeist Films at 212 274 1989.)\n\n-s", "Is posible to make copies of these photographs (or any other aerospace\nphotographs at NASM) if you pay a copyright fee?", "I have a problem with the wallpaper on my desktop, in 1024x768x256 mode. \nFor bitmap files bigger than about 512k (slightly less sometimes depending \non the exact dimensions), the wallpaper display is badly corrupted. The \nrest of the desktop is fine. For wallpaper bitmaps smaller than this, I \nhave no problem. I have a friend who has an 800k bitmap which he has no \nproblems with, so it is possible. It is also possible to display these\nbitmaps using CShow in 1024x768x256 mode with no problem, so the video \ncard is not at fault.\n\nHow can I remedy this?\n\nMy system:\n\n 386DX40, 4Mb ram.\n DOS 6.0, Windows 3.1.\n Oak 1Mb 077 Video card, 1024x768x256 mode, using supplied drivers.\n Windows has a permanent 11,288kb swap file.\n\nPlease reply via e-mail, and _use the address in my .sig_, as our post \nsoftware always seems to mangle the address in the header.\n\n Thanks,\n Mazz.", "Hi again,\n\nMany thanks to all the people who responded to my request for a MS-\nWindows screen grabber. It proves to me AGAIN that the net is a \nwonderful thing. :-)\n\nSo, in summary:\n\nThere are two choices:\n\n1)\tVarious screen grabber packages (Corel Draw has one, there are\na couple on simtel and cica).\n\n2)\tUse the built-in PrintScreen and Alt-PrintScreen functionality\nto paste the screen (or window) to the clipboard. Then paste the \nclipboard to your application. Cool!\n\nAgain, thanks for the info...\n\nGrant (the MS-Windows newbie -- Unix and X are my bag ;-)\n", " *WE* are the ones in control of what we use. It is those who\n mark> follow like blind sheep which cause the markets to skew. I'm sure\n mark> there will be enough \"paid market hipe NT conferences\" without it\n mark> needing to be in what was once a conference for open windowing\n mark> enviroments. I know that if I were planning to go I would cancel.\n mark> NOT because I have my eyes closed, but because NT does not belong\n mark> at such a conference. I would, however, like to go to a CLOSED\n mark> environment NT conference to see the product because I am curious.\n mark> I doubt, however, based on the objective opinions of those I trust,\n mark> that I would be impressed. --\n\nWhy do many (?) people believe that Xhibition '93 is one of the \"paid\nmarket hype NT conferences\" (as you put it)? I for one am going, because\nI, too, am curious about the technology. I think this is a great chance\nto learn about NT, mainly because:\n\n - It will be presented in X's \"home turf\". I believe that the attendees\n will mostly have X backgrounds (biases? :-); thus, I expect that the\n NT presentations will face a tough audience.\n\n - I can be there in person to judge for myself whether or not NT is what\n it is hyped to be. This is as closely as I can get to in evaluating the\n NT technology without actually using it myself, which I don't have the\n time to do.\n\n - If NT turns out to be a vapor technology and I get bored, there will be\n many other interesting tutorials/presentations that I won't have to\n waste my time ... in California?!? :-)\n\nJust my thoughts...\n--", "I am looking for some graphic images of earth shot from space. \n( Preferably 24-bit color, but 256 color .gif's will do ).\n\nAnyways, if anyone knows an FTP site where I can find these, I'd greatly\nappreciate it if you could pass the information on. Thanks.\n\n\n( please send email ).\n\n\nKen Huisman", "Does anyone know how to zap the PRAM on the Duo 230. Inaddition I have recently\nnoticed that checking the ram left in the finder on the duo 230 4/80 \nreveals the normal 1800K for the system file but only about 1/10 to 1/5 of the\nbar is actually highlighted implying that only 2-300K is being used for the\nsystem. What gives? I have had no crashes yet or other software problem...", "Hi,\n\tI am looking for a very high speed \nD/A converter (at least 8bits and 150MHz) for\na research application. A paper in the January\nissue of IEEE Solid-State Circuits mentions a \nGaAs, 1GHz, 8bit DAC - anyone know where I can find\nsuch a thing? Even a somewhat slower Si DAC would\ndo.\n\tNeedless to say, I have looked in all the\nconventional places (Vitesse, Motorola, National,\netc. etc.). Any pointers would be appreciated.", "Hi. I am working on a project for my marketing class and I'd like to\nask your help. The assignment is to come up with a product and create a\nmarketing plan for it. Technical issues are not terribly important at\nthis point. Well, my group's plan is to market a \"full page\" monitor\nfor laptop computers. It would be a third-party product to be installed\nby authorized repair centers (like Newer Technology's PaletteBook\nscreen). The idea is that the screen would fold in such a way that you\nwould get twice the screen height of a normal screen (remember,\ntechnical issues aside!). In fact, by adjusting the fold of the screen\nand the monitor configuration, you could have regular OR \"full\" height. \nThe screen would probably be monochrome.\nThe motivation behind this is that laptop computers seem to be very\npopular among business people. Business people also commonly use word\nprocessing and spreadsheet applications for which it is very convenient\nto see a large portion of the document. Because of the target users and\napplications, color screens aren't really a neccessity. We could\nhopefully keep the cost between $2000 and $3000.\n\nNow, please don't write this off as completely ridiculous. I really\nneed some constructive feedback. So, if you would, please reply to me\nvia email and let me know:\n1. If you would consider buying a \"full page\" laptop screen\n2. How much you would be willing to pay for it\n3. Any helpful commentaries on the idea\n\nAlso, if you take this idea and make a lot of money off it (doubtful,\nbut who knows!), please send me some.\n\nThanks in advance!!!", "While rummaging through a box of old PC (5150) parts, I found a half-size\nboard that looks like a comm port board. It was made by Forte Data Systems and\nhas a copyright date of 1986 on it. The board provides a male 24-pin connector\nand has 3 jumpers of 3 pins each, two labelled A B C. I plugged it into my PC\nand ran Advanced diagnostics several times, changing the jumper positions each\ntime, but the system did not recognise a comm port.\n\nDoes anyone have a clue as to what this board might be or how to configure it?\nI could use another comm port if it's free.", "Hi Mac fans,\n\nI have some problems with my new Quadra 700. Several programs\n(Mathematica 2.1, AfterDark-Mandelbrot module) causes a systemcrash\nif the 040Cache is active. Do anyone have a list of programs which\nare compatible and which are not? Do anyone have some hints for the \nuse of the Quadras perfomence?", "Excuse me to every one.\nI am an Amiga owner and tired to have the same graphic modes.\nSo I saw on nn there was a little bridgeboard that made the\nAmiga's PC slots communicate with the stanndard Amiga's slot.\nThe building mother house of this little gadget assure me\nthat using this thing I can use all the pc boards included\nthe SVGA cards.\nI am interested in computer graphics and I do not know many\nthings about pc in general.\nSo, what is the best (ISA slot) card on the market ?\nI'd like to reach resolutions like 1280x1024 with 256\ncolors or 800x600 with 24 bitplanes.\n\nAny suggestion ??\n\nthankyou in advance\n\nPaolo Silvera -- Certified Commodore Amiga developer", "Dear Netters,\n\nMy sister has an Apple 12\" Color Display hooked up to an LC.\n\nProblem: There is an annoying, horizontal, ghost-like stripe that \nprecesses vertically about once per second. It is about 1 cm high.\nShe is in grave danger of going insane because of it.\n\nAny ideas of what it might be and how I might cure it for her?\n\n-Joe Betts\nbetts@netcom.com", "I need to know the Pins to connect to make a loopback connector for a serial\nport so I can build one. The loopback connector is used to test the \nserial port.\n\nThanks for any help.\n", "I am looking for the specs for the .mpg files that are floating around\nthe alt.binaries.pictures.* groups on the net. Please lemme know where\nI can obtain the spec or email it to me.\n\nThanks much.\n", "Hello networld!\n\nI'm looking for documentation/books on parametric drafting.\n\nDoes anyone know of such material, electronic on a Gopher/ftp-site\nor books/authors.\n\nIm not looking for commercial software rather info on implementation \nand theory of the subject. Im planning to make a parametric\ngenerator for autocad and i would need some referance.\n\nEverything you know is of interest!\n\nThanks in advace!!\n\n//Lasse\n\n\n\n\n-- ", "I know this has been asked a million time, but..\n\nWhat was the ftp site carrying 30-40 .ZIPs of full POV \"source\" files,\nincluding JACK.ZIP and KETTLE.ZIP? I've once been there but\nunfortunately lost the address.\nI'm in a little hurry with it, so please e-mail me at\njtheinon@kruuna.helsinki.fi. Thanks..", "\n\n\n\n\n\nMaybe. I've had an Epson portable with backlit LCD since 1988 which is\nstill used daily and the screen on that is fine. The only problem it\nhas (and ever has had) is the \"arm\" of the screen is sorta lose and if\nyou bend it fairly harshly the screen goes off until you wiggle it\nround a bit. But other than that, it's been perfect! So what's that,\nabout um, 60 months???!", "FILES=30\nBUFFERS=30\nDEVICE=C:\\WINDOWS\\HIMEM.SYS\nDEVICE=C:\\WINDOWS\\SMARTDRV.EXE /DOUBLE_BUFFER\nSTACKS=9,256\n\nand also my autoexec.bat\n\nC:\\vshield\nC:\\WINDOWS\\SMARTDRV.EXE /L\nrem ***************** MouseWare 5.0 Setup ******************\nPATH=C:\\;c:\\dos;C:\\WINDOWS;C:\\FAX;C:\\MOUSE;C:\\WP51\\;\nSET TEMP=C:\\WINDOWS\\TEMP\nMOUSE SER 2\nrem ********************************************************\nc:\\dos\\share\n\nHave you seen this problem before? Please help me out...\n\nthanks", "\n Sorry, but olwm and tvtwm don't do it. They place the title at that position\n and the window at a position below it.\n\n This becomes a problem when you want a program to be able to save its current\n configuration and restore is later.\n\n Currently, my solution is:\n\n\t XCreateWindow(...);\n\t XSetWMProperties(..);\n\t XMapWindow(...);\n\t XFlush(...);\n\t XMoveWindow(...);\n\n\n It works with olwm, but is less than elegant. All this leaves me wondering\n if I'm overlooking something obvious.\n\n Richard.\n\n\nI know that the mwm has an resource to specify if positions are to be used for\nthe border of a window or for the \"user\" window. Maybe other window managers\nhave similar options.\nAnother way to figure out the difference between the \"user\" window position\nand the window manager decoration window position is to subtract their\npositions. You just have to use XQueryTree and remember that the window manager\ndecorations window is the parent of your window. Unfortunately, you can only\nfigure out the decoration width and height after the window has been mapped\nthis way.", "H E L P !\n\nI have a problem in which I'm getting increasing frustrated every day...\n\nSome background about my PC:\n\n- American Megatrend BIOS (clone 386 SX) with 32M of RAM\n- config.sys file:\n\n\tdevice=c:\\dos\\himem.sys\n\tdos=high,umb\n\tdevice=c:\\windows\\emm386.exe noems\n\tfiles=30\n\tbuffers=30\n\tstack=9,256\n\n- autoexec.bat file is using smartdrv.exe +c\n- CMOS set up is running 0 wait state on read and write cache ram.\n\nThe problem: APPLICATION ERROR from WIN31\n\nI started off with a newly installed WIN31 and then installed EXCEL.\nRun excel, no problem. A permanent swap file of size 18K was in place\nfor windows.\n\nOk, I then proceed to install Norton Desktop\nfor Windows version 2.0. No problem with the installation. I also\nallow NDW to alter my autoexec.bat(with the nav running on c:).\nThe problem came when I try to (bring up excel or if excel is running\nand right in the middle of it - like click a selection with the mouse)\nfrom the desktop.\nFirst of all, I always get the application error screen followed by\nanother application error screen with various different messages. The\nfollowing are some of them:\n\n- Stack fault, by TC1024.DRV at address 0001:XXXX where XXXX is some\n number. (TC1024.DRV is the VGA driver provided by the manufacture)\n- General protection fault, by ndw.exe at the same address\n- Segment load failure, by ndw.exe at same address\n\nSome how, the address flagged was always 0001:something. What is address\n0001:XXXX means? \n\nI have absolutely on idea what this mean. I tried commented out the\nTSR programs from autoexec.bat, no help.\n\nIs it something to do with the emm386 setup which is not telling\nWIN31 what it suppose to know. Looks like the application is crossing\nmemory boundary when it is being loaded or while it is running.\n\nPlease reply if you have any idea or suggestion. I'm willing to try\nanything.\n", "\n\nYou can design for ramp shutoff, brick-wall current limit or even \nfold-back cutoff....sounds like you want \"BRICK-WALL\" current limit.\n\nYour lead is correct to pull down the bias to the series regulator base \ndrive. In order to get the brick -wall, you need enough voltage gain on \nthe current sensor. Normally a darlington on the current sensing \nresistor will be adequate, but for infinite gain.. use an op amp to sense \nthe current releative to a stable voltage reference and use a driver to \nturn off the base bias on the series-pass transistor. Phase compensation \nmay be necessary with this closed loop control system if yopu have more \nthan 180 degrees phase shift in your feedabck circuit at unity gain OK??", "\n\nCircuit Cellar Inc.\n4 Park St. Suite 20\nVernon, CT 06066\n(203)875-2751", "\n How much software is out there for the Mac? I've been interested\nin using microcontrollers in imbedded applications for a long time,\nbut was always under the impression that I would need an IBM to run\nthe debug/compile/etc software.\n I would like to use a 6811 or 6816. I'm proficient in 6800 assembly,\nbut have never NEEDED it except some toying with old 6802EVBs.\n\n Motorola doesn't seem to have any information on Mac software (at\nleast their local distributor doesn't) and the ELE department around\nhere has been of little help as well.\n I hope someone can tell me that I don't have to buy an IBM to \nwork with the 6811 or 6816 Evaluation Boards...please send me mail!\n\n Andrew", "------ X-posted to comp.sys.mac.hardware and misc.consumers -------\n\nYou've heard about Apple's great new customer \"support\" program. Well,\nthink again. Sometimes the only real support out there is what Apple\ncomputer users can give to each other. For another example, read on:\n\nIn the March 15th issue of _MacWeek_, Ric Ford described a two-year effort\nby Liam Breck to document and bring to Apple's attention a problem with\ncertain defective mice. At random, the switches on these mice \"stick\" in\nthe down position until clicked a second time, apparently regardless of the\nmachine they are used with or the system software involved. Most of the\nreported problem mice were manufactured in Malaysia and have an FCC ID of\nBCGA65431. You'll recognize this \"sticky button\" symptom immediately if you\nhave such a mouse: the problem is intermittent, but it's not subtle.\n\nLiam Breck recently gave up trying to document this problem, and instead \nsuggested that people contact Apple's Customer Assistance Center directly\n(_MacWeek_ 4/5/93 p. 64). When I called Apple on March 23rd and described\nmy defective mouse, I was eventually given a case number (F83Y) and told\nApple would replace this mouse even though it is a few months out of\nwarranty. After waiting for three weeks, I called back today wondering\nwhere my new mouse was. This time, I was told that Apple had decided the\nserial number on my mouse (MB13831FC25) is not within the (undisclosed)\nrange Apple is willing to replace, and there is nothing I can do about it.\n\nNothing, that is, unless enough people complain about this problem to make\nit worth Apple's while to fix or replace the entire lot of defective mice.\nPlease, if you have one of these mice, I NEED YOUR HELP! Don't assume you\nknow what causes the problem (there are _lots_ of theories) and start\nhacking around inside your hundred-dollar mouse. Instead, let Apple do it.\nPlease take five minutes to CALL APPLE RIGHT NOW at:\n\n United States 1-800-776-2333\n Canada 800-665-2775\n UK and Europe 33-1-49-01-49-01\n Australia 61-2-452-8000\n Japan and Pacific 81-3-5411-8500\n\nIf the number isn't toll-free, call collect. Describe the problem and ask\nfor a replacement mouse. Even if they refuse, insist that they register\nthe details of your case, including your mouse's serial number. Be firm.\n\nNetwork managers and user-group leaders especially, please query your user\nbases. Everyone ask your friends and colleagues. Please don't send mail to\nme or post yet another \"sticky-button\" report, CALL APPLE DIRECTLY! If\nenough victims take the trouble to report this well-known problem, Apple\nwill eventually be forced to respond. If Apple continues to find it easy\nto stone-wall on this issue, don't expect them to offer support when the\nnext, potentially more serious Mac defect is uncovered.", "Just thought of something. Yes, laptops can still be read, but it's not quite\nas easy as a normal pc with a CRT. My thought, Airline pilots lately have\nbeen complaining about how laptops being used in flight mess with the plane's\ninstruments. If this can be hyped up, manufacturers may start building\nlaptops with even lower emmisions. It would probably still be possible to\npick up with surveillance equipment, but at this point, it would be a lot\ncheaper to mask the remaining signals with TEMPEST techniques.\n\nDoug Holland\n", "Hi!\n\nI need a Windows 3.1 driver for the Matrox PG-1281 CV\nSVGA card. \nAt the moment Windows runs only in the 640x480 mode.\nIf you have a driver for this card, please send it \nwith the OEMSETUP.INF to \n\nbockamp@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE\n\nThanks!\n", "I'm looking for some Game Boy games. Please e-mail me with your list and offers! Thanks! Also, if you have a game boy you want to get rid of, please tell me. ", "After setting up Windows for using my Cirrus Logic 5426 VLB GraphicsCard\nIt moved a normal Window from one place to another. \nMy Parameters where just the following : 486 DX 33 VLB \nThe Card is equipped with 1 MB Dram (not Vram, there are 8 sockets for Vram) \nAnd the moving of the window just looked like it looked at a friends\n386DX 25 (387DX) and an normal ISA ET4000\n\nWhat I was wondering why is it not using the BITBLT Engine which\nis suuposed to be on the Chip.\n\nHow are the experiences here..\nHave I done something wrong ?\n(I installed the MSWIN 3.1 MultiResolution drivers which where supplied \nwith the Card ?!)\nWould be nice if somebody could tell about his experience with this card\nAlso if there are new(hopefully faster) drrivers around I would love to \nhow to get hold of them :-) (ftp or whatsoever :-) )", "Gateway 2000 Fax/Modem\nsend receive fax 9600 baud\nsend receive up to 57,000 baud\n.. more\n\nnever been used\ncomes with software crosstalk/winFax\n\nNew $195 from Gateway (only sold to gateway customer)\nwill fit into your AT bus", "\n\nCorel Draw will do it; version 2 onwards. If you have version 1 perhaps an\nupgrade is in order.\n\nAnother alternative would be to use a different bureau that can take PostScript.\n\n--\nChris Lilley\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTechnical Author, ITTI Computer Graphics and Visualisation Training Project\nComputer Graphics Unit, Manchester Computing Centre, Oxford Road, \nManchester, UK. M13 9PL Internet: C.C.Lilley@mcc.ac.uk \nVoice: +44 (0)61 275 6045 Fax: +44 (0)61 275 6040 Janet: C.C.Lilley@uk.ac.mcc", "Let's say you have a scanned image of a line drawing; in this case a\nboat, but it could be anything. On the drawing you have a set of\nreference points whose true x,y positions are known. \n\nNow you digitize the drawing manually (in this case, using Yaron\nDanon's excellent Digitize program). That is, you use a program which\nconverts cursor positions to x,y and saves those values when you click\nthe mouse.\n\nUpon digitizing you notice that the reference point values that come\nout of the digitizing process differ in small but significant ways\nfrom the known true values. This is understandable because the\nscanned drawing is a reproduction of the original and there are\nsuccessive sources of distortion such as differential expansion and\ncontraction of paper, errors introduced in the printing process,\nscanner errors and what have you.\n\nThe errors are not uniform over the entire drawing, so \"global\"\nadjustments such as stretching/contracting uniformly over x or y, or\nrotating the whole drawing, are not satisfactory.\n\nSo the question is: does any kind soul know of an algorithm for\nremoving such distortion? In particular, if I have three sets of\npoints \n\nReference(x,y) (the known true values)\n\nDistortedReference(x,y) (the same points, with known errors)\n\nDistortedData(x,y) (other points, with unknown errors)\n\nwhat function of Reference and Distorted could I apply to\nDistortedData to remove the errors.\n\nI suspect the problem could be solved by treating the distorted\nreference points as resulting from the projection of a \"bumpy\" 3d\nsurface, solving for the surface and then \"flattening\" it to remove\nthe errors in the other data points.\n\nAny kind and informed soul out there have any ideas, or better yet,\npointers to treatments of the same or similar problems?\n\nThanks,", "I have tried almost everything under the sun to get a null modem connection\nbetween a Mac Duo 210 and a PC. I have used MacKermit and VersaTerm on\nthe Mac side. I have used Procomm, Kermit, and Softerm (on OS/2) on\nthe PC (or PS) side. I have used non-Hardware handshaking and hardware\nahdshaking cables. And know MY hands are shaking from the effort. Nothing\nhas allowed file transfers from the Mac to the PS.\n\nIn general, I can type back and forth with no trouble, but only if both sides\nare set to speeds OVER 9600 baud. I cannot send files from the Mac to the\nPS at all, and file transfers from the Duo to the PS are not possible.\nWhen I do a straight ascii send, I can send from the PS to the Duo flawlessly.\nI can send Binhex files this way quite fast, and I know that the\ntransmission is error free.\nBut straight ascii sent from the Mac to the PS is full of errors.\nUnless, of course, I do text pacing so slow that it is like human\ntyping. (well, like 2-3 times faster than human typing).\n\nI would like to hear from ANYONE who has been able to transfer files\nfrom a Duo 210 to a PS via modem or null modem. If you can do it, please\ntell me your EXACT combination of hardware and software. Obviously, I am\ntalking of a true serial port modem, not the express modem. Maybe some\nkind soul with access to a modem and a Duo 210 can check this out for me.\n\nRight now, I am of the opinion that it won't work at high speeds because\nof the power interrupts on the Duo, and it won't work at low speeds\nbecause of some crazy reason I don't understand.\n\nCould I hear from someone attesting that they can really pump information\nout the serial port of a Duo 210 fast? Like via a modem or via a\nsys-ex dump?\n\nCould anyone with a Duo help me out?? I am going absolutely INSANE.\nI wanna know if the problem is MY Duo, or all Duo 210s, or all Duos,\nor just me.\n\nYes, I have checked the cable 1,000,000 times. And not only can I type\nback and forth, but Zterm alerts the users if s/he uses hardware handshaking\nand CTS is down. So I know that hardware handshaking is working. And also,\nAccording to Zterm port stats, the buffer never overflows.\n\nPlease help me figure out what's going on...", "Acorn Software, Inc. has 3 tape drives (currently used on a VMS\nsystem) for sale. These are all SCSI tape drives and are in\nworking condition.\n\n WangDat 1300 4mm $500.00\n WangDat 2600 4mm (compression) $650.00 (SALE PENDING)\n Exabyte 8200 8mm $650.00 (SALE PENDING)\n\nPlus shipping and COD. Certified checks only, please. These\nunits are sold as is and without warrantee. Contact me if you're\ninterested.\n-- \nDick Munroe\t\t\t\tInternet: munroe@dmc.com\nDoyle Munroe Consultants, Inc.\t\tUUCP: ...uunet!thehulk!munroe\n267 Cox St.\t\t\t\tOffice: (508) 568-1618\nHudson, Ma.\t\t\t\tFAX: (508) 562-1133", "For Sale:\n One Boss Turbo Overdrive Pedal for guitar, bass, or keyboards--$35\nor best offer. Thanks!! Respond to hw26 or call 268-4841. ", "\nCouldn't you simply use MIN() as you use SUM() and than subtract it\nfrom SUM() ??\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ninternet: ffritze@hpwbe007.wad.hp.com\nphone: Germany 7243 602296\naddress: Fromut FRITZE, Waldbronn Analytic Division R&D,\n\t Hewlett Packard Str, D 7517 Waldbronn 2, Germany", "Perry> NNTP-Posting-Host: wswiop15.win.tue.nl\n\n\n\nPerry> Perhaps you should try nic.funet.fi instead of funet.fi ??!?!?\n\nAnother possibility is, that you did not give your email address as password\nfor the anonymous account. If you that, you see following message:\n\n230-\n230-You entered an invalid/inpropable password, and are now accessing\n230-restricted subset of files. Please read README for more information.\n230-We have special access features, see file README\n230 It was last updated Tue Apr 13 23:45:09 1993 - 9.4 days ago\n\nThis can happen, if your terminal emulator does not generate the '@'\ncharacter as you think (it is hard to see, since passwords are not echoed..).", "Hello all.\n\tI am thinking about buying an external monitor for my SE/30 and was\nwondering if anyone out in netland has any advice for me.\n\tI am mostly thinking about a 14\" color monitor and an 8 bit card that\ncan switch between 640*480 and something higher (like 800*600). I read an\nold report on a card from Lapis that could do this, but could not use the\nexternal monitor as the main screen (with menubar) which to me is a major draw-\nback. Has this perhaps been fixed? Or can any other cards do this (like the\nMicron Xceed) ?\n\tAlso which monitor should I buy? At the moment I am leaning towards\nthe Sony 1304, 1304s or 1320 (what exactly is the difference between these?)\nbut are there any other good cheap monitors I should know about? Doesn't the\nmonitor have to be multisync to support cards that can switch resolutions?\n\nPlease send me e-mail and I'll summarize.\n\nI would also greatly appreciate getting the e-mail addresses of any mail order\ncompanys that sell monitors or cards.\n\nThanks in advance", ": \n: >A friend of mine called me on the phone and told me he was wathcing CNN\n: >and saw a report that the ruling prohibiting AMD from selling their i486\n: >clones has been thrown out, making it legal for AMD to ship in the US.\n: \n: Yep, this was on the news. Great news for consumers. Bad news\n: for Intel. \n\nTheir stock dropped quite a chunk with the announcement.\n\n--", "I have several isolation amplifier boards that are the ideal interface\nfor EEG and ECG. Isolation is essential for safety when connecting\nline-powered equipment to electrodes on the body. These boards\nincorporate the Burr-Brown 3656 isolation module that currently sells\nfor $133, plus other op amps to produce an overall voltage gain of\n350-400. They are like new and guaranteed good. $20 postpaid,\nschematic included. Please email me for more data.", "FOR SALE:\n\nTrident 1 Meg Video Card\n\nUp to 1024x768 in 256 colors", "\nI think the original post was searching for existing implementations of\nf.i. Gouroud-shading of triangles. This is fairly complex to do with plain\nX. Simpler shading models are implemented already, f.i. in x3d (ask archie\nwhere to get the latest version).\nFor Gouroud, a fast implementation will be possible utilizing some extension\nonly, either MIT-SHM to do the shade in an image and fast update the window\nwith it, or PEX/OpenGL which should be able to shade themselves. The portable\n'vanilla X' way would be to shade in a normal XImage and use XPutImage(),\nwhat would be good enough to do static things as f.i. fractal landscapes\nor such stuff.\n\nTo speak about POVRay, the X previewer that comes with the original source\npackage is not that good, especially in speed, protocol-friendlyness and\nICCCM compliance. Have a look on x256q, my own preview code. It is on\n\n141.76.1.11:pub/gfx/ray/misc/x256q/\n\nThe README states the points where it is better than xwindow.c from\nPOVRay 1.0\n", "Dear netters,\n\nI have noticed something rather weared (I think) about creating a dialog shell\nwidget while running HP Vue's vuewm.\n\nFor some reason, every time I create a dialog shell the foreground and backgroun\nd colors are different compared to my toplevel shell.\nI am not doing anything special/different.\n\nDoes any body know anything about this problem?? How to fix it without hardcodin\ng the colors ?\n\nPlease respond to kamlesh@salzo.cary.nc.usa ....", "\nI've got two CD300's... The first one i ordered Jan 15, and I received it Feb. 20.\nThe second one I ordered Jan 20th, and I just got it April 2nd or so. Anyway, they\nboth come with 10 misc. CDROMs... Things like a \"Intro to Nautilis\", a sample CD\nof Kodak pictures, \"From Alice to Ocean\" (a story of a woman who treked across\nAustrailia), 3 discs from apple, a games disc, an applications disc, and a \"titles\"\ndisc (haven't checked most of these out yet). Also some \"Cinderella\" thing for kids,\na disc of Mozart something-or-others, etc. etc. etc. If someone's super interested,\nI'll make a list of the exact titles and post them. They are all in the category of\n\"Interesting, but probably fairly useless...\". It was rumored that the earliest \nunits shipped with SOME encyclocpedia (it may have), but neither of my drives had\nthat.", "\n\tIt depends on what kind of the polygons. \n\tConvex - simple, concave - trouble, concave with loop(s)\n\tinside - big trouble.\n\n\tOf cause, you can use the box test to avoid checking\n\teach edges. According to my experience, there is not\n\ta simple way to go. The headache stuff is to deal with\n\tthe special cases, for example, the overlapped lines.", "[ Article crossposted from hp.windows ]\n[ Author was Andy DeFaria ]\n[ Posted on Mon, 19 Apr 1993 18:08:38 GMT ]\n\nFor some reason the following code causes my X application to beep whenever I\nintercept a keystroke and change it's meaning. The intent of this code it to\nallow \"date\" fields the following special keys:\n\n\t[Tt]:\tInsert today's date\n\t[+=]:\tBump day up by one\n\t[-_]:\tBump day down by one\n\nI hardcoded some dates for this example. Perhaps I shouldn't be using an\nXmText field for this.\n\n////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// \n// \n// For some reason the following code beeps whenever any of the special keys\n// of [Tt+=-_] are hit. Why? The idea of this code is to interpret these\n// keys having the special meaning implied by the code. I would like to get\n// rid of the beeping but, as far as I can tell, I'm not doing the beep and \n// am at a lose as to understanding who and why the beeping is occuring.\n// \n////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// \n#include \n#include \n#include \n#include \n#include \n\nWidget\t\ttoplevel;\nWidget\t\tmainWindow;\nWidget\t\tmainPane;\nWidget\t\tdateField;\nXtAppContext\tapplication; \n\nvoid markToday (Widget date) {\n char *todaysDate = \"04/19/93\";\n XtVaSetValues (date, XmNvalue, todaysDate, NULL);\n} // markToday\n\nvoid markTomorrow (Widget date) {\n char *tomorrowsDate = \"04/20/93\";\n XtVaSetValues (date, XmNvalue, tomorrowsDate, NULL);\n} // markTomorrow\n\nvoid markYesterday (Widget date) {\n char *yesterdaysDate = \"04/18/93\";\n XtVaSetValues (date, XmNvalue, yesterdaysDate, NULL);\n} // markYesterday\n\nvoid datekeys (Widget /* callingWidget */,\n\t Widget date,\n\t XmTextVerifyPtr callbackData) {\n // Capture the keys [Tt-_+=] can change their behaviour. If found\n // set \"doit\" to false so X won't interpret the keystroke. \n switch (callbackData->text->ptr [0]) {\n case 't': case 'T': \n\t markToday (date);\n\t callbackData->doit = FALSE;\n\t return;\n case '-': case '_':\n\t markYesterday (date);\n\t callbackData->doit = FALSE;\n\t return;\n case '+': case '=':\n\t markTomorrow (date);\n\t callbackData->doit = FALSE;\n\t return;\n default:\n\t return;\n } // switch\n} // datekeys\n\nvoid main (Cardinal argc, char *argv []) { \n // Initialize Xt \n toplevel = XtVaAppInitialize (&application, \"Application\", NULL, 0, \n\t\t\t\t &argc, argv, NULL, NULL); \n\n // Create the toolface\n mainWindow = XtVaCreateManagedWidget \n (\"mainWindow\", xmMainWindowWidgetClass, toplevel, NULL);\n\n // Create a mainWindow\n mainPane = XtVaCreateManagedWidget\n (\"mainPane\", xmRowColumnWidgetClass, mainWindow, NULL);\n\n // Create a small text area\n dateField = XtVaCreateManagedWidget\n (\"dateField\", xmTextWidgetClass, mainPane,\n XmNtopAttachment,\tXmATTACH_FORM,\n XmNrightAttachment,\tXmATTACH_FORM,\n XmNcolumns,\t\t8,\n NULL);\n\n // Set modifyVerifyCallback to the datekeys callback \n XtAddCallback (dateField, XmNmodifyVerifyCallback,\n\t\t (XtCallbackProc) datekeys, (XtPointer) dateField);\n\n // Realize the toplevel \n XtRealizeWidget (toplevel);\n\n // Go into the XtMainLoop\n XtAppMainLoop (application); \n} // main \n\n_______________________________________________________________________________\nI swear by my life and the love of it that I will | Andrew DeFaria\nnever live for the sake of another man nor ask | Hewlett Packard\nanother man to live for mine. | California Language Labs\n John Galt | defaria@cup.hp.com\n_______________________________________________________________________________\n\n", "I'm trying to create a button that has both a label and a bitmap using\nthe MenuButton widget. Is this possible? Right now, all I get is the\nbitmap -- no sign of the label.\n\nAny help would be appreciated.\n\n", "B\nBK>Is it possible to plug in 70ns or 60ns SIMMs into a motherboard saying\nBK>wants 80ns simms? \n\nYou shouldn't have troubles. I have heard of machines having problems \nwith slower than recommended memory speeds, but never faster. \n\nBK>Also, is it possible to plug in SIMMs of different\nBK>speeds into the same motherboard? ie - 2 megs of 70ns and 2 megs of 6\nBK>or something like that?\n\nSure. I have 4 70ns SIMMs in one bank and 4 60ns SIMMS in the other ( I \nhave a 486 ). I wouldn't recommend mixing speeds within a bank, just to \nbe on the safe side.\n\n-rdd \nrdesonia@erim.org\n\n---\n . WinQwk 2.0b#0 . Unregistered Evaluation Copy\n * KMail 2.95d W-NET HQ, hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us, +1 313 663 4173 or 3959\n ", "Simple !! Look for VESA drivers in VPIC 6.0e package !!\nMany SVGA card supported. Look for it on your favorite BBS.\n\n--\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nNot tonight honey, i just received my Nuvotel :-]\n", ":\tI'd really like to see such a thing developed so that interactive\n:internet talk radio could be done. Ideally, though, it should be a general\n:purpose device. It should be a general purpose enough device that nobody\n:should be able to balk at its widespread use. Obviously, to make it easy\n:for homebrewers, it should use pretty common hardware.\n\nI suggest we start with the ubiquitous Sun, to get a lot of momentum\ngoing. Custom hardware isn't going to go anywhere until there's a\nuser base.\n\n:\tAnyone interested? I'll start a provisional mailing list. Let\n:me know if you want on.\n\nCount me in. I need someone at the US end to experiment on the \nprotocols with, and I like the way you code. Give me 3 weeks to\nmove house and settle in then we'll go for it seriously...", "Howdy, Netlanders:\n\nCan you put an ISA card into an EISA slot?\n\nAlso, can you put a 8-bit PC card in an ISA \nslot?\n\nPlease e-mail if possible,\n\nThanks ahead of time,", "I need some help in tracking down a dvi viewer for X. I have xdvi but we\nhave not got the X libraries and includes installed- so \n\t\ti) is there a way around this, as we are trying to avoid\n\t\t installing the stuff (space is at a premium).\n\t\tii)would someone be prepared to make the binaries\n\t\t available. We have a HP700 and a HP382.", "\nThe IBM XGA SVGA VESA driver is on the 2.02 reference diskette, available\nfrom the IBM BBS. It's also on Compu$erve, or you can bang on your sales\nrep to get you a later version.", " The \"low radiation\" claims one sees on monitors these days pertain to\nallegedly harmful electromagnetic emissions, which does not necessarily have\nanything to do wtih TEMPEST security.\n (I think the alleged hazard is BS, but that's another topic.)\n\n\n", "\nxdm does XGrabServer when it's running in secure mode (so do some\nscreen-locks). There's really no simple way to tell this is the case.\n\nYou can take xdm out of secure mode; probably not too cool.\n\nYou can wrap your call to XOpenDisplay in some code which solicts\na future SIGALRM and longjmps past the XOpenDisplay from the signal\nhandler. An example of this can be seen in the xdm sources.", "I have an NEC multisync 3d monitor for sale. great condition. looks new. it is\n.28 dot pitch\nSVGA monitor that syncs from 15-38khz\n\nit is compatible with all aga amiga graphics modes.\nleave message if interested. make an offer.", "I am looking for a program I can insert into some code that will allow the title bar to be changed on a window dynamicly. If one already is out there, I would appreciate a location so I don't have to create this from scratch.", "Hello,\n\nrecently I noticed there is a directory named \"DiskImage\" in my disk. I didn't\nnotice it before and I wonder if while installing an application an image of \nthe disk was created, or if Win3.1 automatically created a backup of its files.\nI couldn't find any documentation on the diskimage utility; having an image of\nthe disk is taking *a lot* of disk space. Does anybody know if this is just \nsomething the people who installed Win3.1 did or it is a backup mechanism?\n\nThanks,\n\nAnibal\n-- \n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\nAnibal Mayorga | 21 Wenark Dr #7 | W: (302) 831-8704 \nmayorga@cis.udel.edu | Newark, DE 19713 | H: (302) 453-0309", "Posted for a friend without posting access (but with e-mail access...)\n----------------------------\n\nHelp, anyone!\n\nI have a X client that is abnormally terminated with the following message:\n\nXIO: fatal IO error 22 (Invalid argument) on X server \"xxxxx:0.0\"\n after 10058 requests (10057 known processed) with 78 events remaining.\n\nIt has been known to occur when displaying on the Xsun (X11R4) server. It\noccurs with a higher frequency when the client displays on the Xdomain\n(X11R4) server running on DomainOS 10.3.5 on an Apollo.\n\nAnybody know why this may be happening? Any suggestions would be greatly\nappreciated.\n\nReply-To: has been set to me. I'll summarize to the net.\n\nDoug Leary\nREDARS Software Development\nBoeing Computer Services\ndcl@luey.ca.Boeing.COM\n\n", "I'm waiting for June first to roll around when I can then get my \nhands on PC-Solaris...Unix for the Intel chip! I know that there\nare many of other unix possibilities out there, but this includes\nthe Wabi (Windows API Binary Interface...I think) technology that wil\nrun Windows apps straight outta da box. If this flies in enhanced mode,\nthen here's another contender to look out for in the corporate/education\nmarket.\n\nToo big and complex for the home front...Windows 4/Mac Sys7 will take those\nwhile Win4Wkgrps - NT - OS/2 will fight it out for the small-to-mid businesses.\n\nHowever, once the PowerPC becomes available (especially in laptop/notebook form)\nthen these will migrate into all markets....the ability to connect up to a unix\nmachine at work and yet still run Windows/Mac apps at home is going to be real\nattractive to alot of people!!!\n\nJust my predictions.\n\nMike\n", "\n\nI see . . . you're not running Ultrix!\n\n\t:-)\n\n\t\t\t\t- - Steve\n\n", "\n\nStone, DeRose: Geometric characterization of parametric cubic curves.\nACM Trans. Graphics 8 (3) (1989) 147 - 163.\n\n\nManocha, Canny: Detecting cusps and inflection points in curves.\nComputer aided geometric design 9 (1992) 1-24.", "\nThink!\n\nIt's the SCSI card doing the DMA transfers NOT the disks...\n\nThe SCSI card can do DMA transfers containing data from any of the SCSI devices\nit is attached when it wants to.\n\nAn important feature of SCSI is the ability to detach a device. This frees the\nSCSI bus for other devices. This is typically used in a multi-tasking OS to\nstart transfers on several devices. While each device is seeking the data the\nbus is free for other commands and data transfers. When the devices are\nready to transfer the data they can aquire the bus and send the data.\n\nOn an IDE bus when you start a transfer the bus is busy until the disk has seeked\nthe data and transfered it. This is typically a 10-20ms second lock out for other\nprocesses wanting the bus irrespective of transfer time.\n", "I haven't been following this thread, so appologies if this has already been\nmentioned, but how about\n\n\tcomp.graphics.3d\n", "I am working on a project and am in need of information regarding the \ncurrents (at the head) needed to write to a hard drive and the currents \nproduced when reading. If anyone has information it would be much \nappreciated.\nmcole@nmsu.edu\n", "Excerpts from netnews.comp.windows.x: 19-Apr-93 Monthly Question about\nXCop.. Buzz Moschetti@bear.com (1055) \n\n\nHmmm.... Clearly? Depends on your programming model. It is not at all\nforbidden to draw outside the context of an expose event. Certainly any\ninternal data structures should be maintained such that the visual\nappearance would be maintained properly whenever an expose event happens\nto be generated. This doesn't preclude drawing immediately after\nupdating the datastructures though... ", "Thanks to everyone who mailed help, unfortunately the end problem was a REALLY\nstupid `oversight' on my behalf. The code was 100% perfect, but it might\nhelp to add Control.C to my makefile.......\n\n\tAnyway the mangled name was telling me it could'nt locate the Control\nconstructor...", "Hi!\n\nI have a problem with my floppy drives. In an effort to make my 3.5\" drive \n(normally b:) my a: drive, I switched the order of connections on the cable \nfrom the serial card/floppy/ide controller. I booted up, changed the CMOS\nsettings to reflect the a: drive as the 3.5 and the b: drive as the 5.25.\nThe drive lights didn't come on, and there was a failure trying to read from\nthose drives.\n\nI switched the cables back to their original positions, and then booted-up and\nrestored the original CMOS settings. The lights for the floppies came on\nduring this process, and they stay on for as long as the computer is on.\nI see that when there is a disk in a:, the drive is spinning, yet there seems\nto be no disk access. MSD.EXE and Norton SI detect both drives, but when I \ntry to get detailed information about a: or b:, Norton SI tells me that there\nis no disk in the drive.\n\nCan anyone offer any suggestions?\nI'm in desperate need of help!!!\n\nThank you for your time.", "I have some Desert Storm cards for sale. I have divided them up into two lots. I will take the highest bid before 4/30/93. Just drop me a line with your bid.\n\n\nLot #1 Desert Storm (Coalition for Peace, Topps)\n\n cards# 38,3,16,28(S),8(S),71,30,34*2,69,48,2,79,15,16(S),66,69,17,21,26\n 85,25,17(S),18,6,86,23,49\n\n 2nd series(Topps) cards# 118,111,92,104,115,160,95,162,31(S),136,110,123\n 147,107,164,108,170\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nLot #2 Desert Storm (Pro Set)\n\n cards# 44,87,120,196,229,19,74,121,153,208,47,100,150,187,13,58,178,217\n 22,94,142,197,227,4,108,174,228,6,89,137,190,205,23,82,128,199,211\n\n(S) - Sticker card\n ", "Article #61214 (61317 is last):\nFrom: arnolm2@aix.rpi.edu (Matthew Richard Arnold)\nSubject: DX50 vs DX266\nDate: Wed Apr 21 19:55:12 1993\n\n\nWould someone be willing to explain to me the 486DX 50MHz is not more\npopular than it is? I would think it would be just as fast, if not \nfaster than the 486DX 66MHz for certian applications. Plus, a 50MHz \nmotherboard would seem better if you had any plans on upgrading the\nchip in the future. I must be missing something, since everyone is \nbuying the DX2 66... Many adds don't even mention the DX 50.\n\n Thanks a lot,\n -Matt\n\nEnd of File, Press RETURN to quit\n\nYes its realy simple, no one makes a mother board that runs the\nbus at more than 33MHZ....Sam", "I have a modest system of aliases/macros that enables me to download\nmail from a public access UNIX system to my MS-DOS box. I read and reply\nto the mail with a MS Windows 3.1 based editor.\n\nEverything works peachey keen as long as the author of the message has\nmaintained his text at 80 col. max. width. Sometimes I get slightly wider\nmessages that run off-screen, so I have to use the cursor/slider to read\nthe whole thing.\n\nI'm using NDW Deskedit mainly, but I've experienced the same prob with\nall other MS WIndows editors. I've fiddled with word wrap settings in\nthe various editors, but to no avail. I know I'm missing something very\nbasic in editor setup, but what is it?\n\nOh yeah, MS Word for Windows converts everything flawlessly but for what\nI'm looking for that's like using a tank to crack walnuts.\n\nI'd really like to have an editor setup that would display all incoming\nASCII files in a readable format to my screen.\n\nThanks in advance,", "\nI used this combination for a while - A QCR-Z recorder,\nI think - and as far as I remember Corel can EXPORT in\nSCODAL (.scd) format. Just select 'EXPORT' on the main\nfile menu. This may not be implemented in earlier versions,\nof course, in which case you're on your own!!!\n\nAlso, I seem to think that the s/w for the QCR-Z (at the time)\ndid strange (and very undesirable) things if ANY part of the\npic was outside the screen area on Corel. I once spent an\nafternoon painfully discovering that ONE pixel had somehow\nstrayed off-screen, causing my whole slide to be blank!!!\n\nThe QCR-Z also couldn't handle grad-fill over grad-fill -\nso if you use a graduated colour background, if you then\ngrad-fill an object on top of this, the fill appears on the\nfinal slide as a circle (I think) and TOTALLY IGNORES the\nshape of the object being filled!!!\n\nOf course, if the recorder isn't a QCR, you can ignore all\nthis and feel suitably :-)", "I'm getting a sad Mac icon on a black screen with the error code 0300FF.\nCould someone please tell me what's wrong? Memory? \n\nThanks a lot. I'd appreciate it infinitely...", "Hi,\n\nCan anybody suggest robust algorithms/code for computing the point of intersection\non n, 2-d lines in a plane. The data has outliers and hence a simple least squares\ntechnique does not seem to provide satifactory results.\n\nPlease respond by e-mail and I will post the summary to the newsgroups\nif there is sufficient interest.\n\nThanks,\n\nRaj Talluri\nMember Technical Staff\nImage Understanding Branch\nTexas Instruments\nCentral Research Labs\nDallas, Texas 75248", "It seems I'm in the fortunate position to desire what many people want to sell-\na miniature color tv. I require color and input for cable or vcr. I would \nprefer a 5inch diagonal and a tube television (not lcd).\n\nGet paid the first, make an offer by email.", "\n\n Don't believe the hype. There is no such thing as a PowerPC slot.", "I repair a lot of monitors here, and I'd like to know where I can get a\npattern generator (or a circuit for one) that will provide MDA, EGA and VGA\nsignals. Using a whole PC to do this takes up too much space on my bench, and\nis somewhat less than portable. I guess I could sit down and design something,\nbut I don't have the time right now - any (reasonable) suggestions would be\nappreciated.\n\nTNX\n\nTG", "Can anybody recommend a good, application-oriented beginner's reference\nto RF circuits? \n\nI am pretty good on theory & know what different types of modulation mean, \nbut don't have a lot of practical experience. A book detailing working\ncircuits of different types (modulation, power, frequency, what is legal,\nwhat is not, et cetera), would be very helpful.\n\nThanks.\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nSteve Klinkner AT&T Bell Labs srk@boeing.att.com\n att!boeing!srk ", "\n\n\n\nThey do interpolate - it's not linear interpolation though. You are correct\nthat the frequency content is not altered (more specifically, the baseband\nspectrum is preserved, and so is every Nth image spectrum. The other\n(N-1) in N image spectra are removed, where N is the oversampling rate)\n\n\nIdeally the filter has a gain of 1 from 0Hz to 22050Hz, and a gain of 0\nfrom 22050 to the new Nyquist frequency. In practice a finite transition\nband is required, and there is also a certain amount of pass-band ripple\nand stop-band leakage. With a high order (eg 200 taps) digital filter,\na very good approximation can be easily achieved.\n\n <<< BIT DELETED ABOUT OBSERVATIONS OF INTERPOLATION FILTER AT WORK >>>\n\n\nNo, they actually use a digital FIR just like yours, but built in hardware,\non custom VLSI chips for (mainly) economic reasons.\n\n\n\nI guess that the answer is somewhere between the two.\n\nAs an interesting (?) aside, some of you out there may be aware of a scheme\nused by Pioneer and Wadia, which is called (by Pioneer, at least) Legato\nLink. I haven't heard one of these players, but by reading advertising\nblurb, and a couple of pseudo-technical articles I deduced that all they\ndo is build a lousy digital oversampling filter, and let a load of the\nfirst image (ie aliassed) spectrum through. Talking to Bob Stuart (of\nBoothroyd Stuart, aka Meridian) confirmed my suspicion. He said that it\nsounded awful, but then he would, wouldn't he...\n\nChristopher", "I want to do the equivalent of an \"xwininfo -name\" via a call or set of calls\nin Xlib. I need to map a windows name to its id.\nIt's probably easy, but I've only been programming in X for a little while.\nI've looked in the O'reilly books and didn't find it and I also checked the\nFAQ and couldn't find it.\n\nEmail to one of the following addresses and I'll post a response if it\nseems reasonable to do so.\n\n\nGuy", "OK, if I post where this comes from, will people stop sending email \nasking where I negotiated the deal? ;-)\n\nThe deal is from \"International Computer and Networking\" in CA.\n(I saw the ad int he back of MacWorld and MacUser)...\nphone number is 310-441-9181 and the deal may have changed since\na few weeks ago, since they change prices about every ten minutes ;-)\n\nAlas, this is a funny system, it SOUNDS like a good deal, but this is a \nCentris 650, 4MB (on the motherboard) 4MB SIMM, 80MB HD, NO ETHERNET\nand NO COPROCESSOR (well, actually it's a 68LC040 instead of a 68RC040,\n'just had to say that to keep people from saying \"there is no such thing\nas an '040 without a coprocessor, since the FPU is built into the chip\")\n\nOK, there ya have it, but if I were you, I would wait untill the cyclones\ncome out and buy a Quadra 800 ;-)\n\n-nate\n", "On ftp.cica.indiana.edu in pub/pc/win3/misc/winadv.zip is a writeup by\nSteve Gibson of InfoWorld with winbench 3.11 and a number of other \nbenchmark results for nine isa and four VLB video cards. This is a \nvery current upload and is likely to have any card you're currently \ngiving serious consideration. Not in XLS format. Latest version of\nWinBench that I know of is ver 3.11. I believe they try to maintain\nthe same rating scale between versions, and new versions are released\nto defeat the lastest coding tricks put in by driver programmers to\nbeat the benchmarks. Don't know on the last one.", "gnuplot, etc. make it easy to plot real valued functions of 2 variables\nbut I want to plot functions whose values are 2-vectors. I have been \ndoing this by plotting arrays of arrows (complete with arrowheads) but\nbefore going further, I thought I would ask whether someone has already\ndone the work. Any pointers??\n\nthanx in advance\n", "Is there a update or something that will allow a person when\nusing novell 3.11 and windows 3.1 file manager to view the files with\nthe name of the person who created it or changed it like the novell\ncommand ndir ?\n\ntim osburn\nosburn@halcyon.com\n\n", "I need a large dog cage, the kind you use to housebreak a dog when you\nare not around. I have been adopted by a 11 month old non-housetrained\nhuskey. I am in the Pittsburgh area. My number is 412 268-8843. \n", "Can the internal hard drive of the MacPortable upgraded to larger capacity? What is the specs? A 3-1/2\" drive? LPS model?\n\nIs there any third party modem greater than 2400 bps? With FAX option?\n\nP.S. I notice the MacPortable batteries are avalable thru the Apple Catalog.", "Note the Followup-To: header ...\n\n\nOn my SVR4 Amiga Unix box, I've got -lform, -lmenu, and -lpanel for\nuse with the curses library. Guess what they provide? :-)\n\nUnix Press, ie. Prentice-Hall, has a programmer's guide for these\ntools, referred to as the FMLI (Forms Mgmt Language Interface) and\nETI (Extended Terminal Interface), now in it's 2nd edition. It is\nISBN 0-13-020637-7.\n\nParaphrased from the outside back cover:\n\n FMLI is a high-level programming tool for creating menus, forms,\n and text frames. ETI is a set of screen management library\n subroutines that promote fast development of application programs\n for window, panel, menu, and form manipulation.\n\nThe FMLI is a shell package which reads ascii text files and produces\nscreen displays for data entry and presentation. It consists of a\n\"shell-like\" environment of the \"fmli\" program and it's database\nfiles. It is section 1F in the Unix Press manual.\n\nThe ETI are subroutines, part of the 3X manual section, provide\nsupport for a multi-window capability on an ordinary ascii terminal\nwith controls built on top of the curses library.\n\n", "Hi,\n\nis there any script/program/thelike already existing which could transform\nthe output of x11perfcomp (a huge table) into a nice 3d'ish diagram or\ngraph by producing postscript output from x11perfcomp input ?\n\nMaybe someone has already written such beast ...\n", "\nTerry McCandlish, president of my local BMW club (Buckeye Beemers)\nsells this type of tape. It comes as a strip approximately 3\" x 12\"\nand can be cut to sizes needed.\n\nYou can call Terry at (614) 837-1960 (Columbus, Ohio).", "\n\nHPGL does not support raster primitives, so a formatter would have to \npunt on most popular image formats. This probably explains the lack of\ntranslators out there. What do you need to plot ?", "FOR SALE:\n\tParadise SVGA accelerator card\n\t-800x600x32768\n\t-1240x1024x16\n\t-up to 15 times faster than vga\n\t-manual, drivers\n\t-used for 5 months, perfect condition\n\t-WD chipset\n\n $120 OBO", "Archive-name: space/data\nLast-modified: $Date: 93/04/01 14:39:07 $\n\nONLINE AND OTHER SOURCES OF IMAGES, DATA, ETC.\n\n\nINTRODUCTION\n\n A wide variety of images, data, catalogs, information releases, and\n other material dealing with space and astronomy may be found on the net.\n A few sites offer direct dialup access or remote login access, while the\n remainder support some form of file transfer. Many sites are listed as\n providing 'anonymous FTP'. This refers to the File Transfer Protocol on\n the Internet. Sites not connected to the Internet cannot use FTP\n directly, but there are a few automated FTP servers which operates via\n email. Send mail containing only the word HELP to ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com\n or bitftp@pucc.princeton.edu, and the servers will send you instructions\n on how to make requests.\n\n The sources with the broadest selection of material are the NASA Ames\n SPACE archive and the National Space Science Data Center.\n\n Don't even ask for images to be posted to the net. The data volume is\n huge and nobody wants to spend the time on it.\n\n\nVIEWING IMAGES\n\n The possible combinations of image formats and machines is forebodingly\n large, and I won't attempt to cover common formats (GIF, etc.) here. To\n read PDS and VICAR (and many other) formats on Unix systems running X,\n use XV 2.11, available by anonymous FTP from export.lcs.mit.edu\n (18.24.0.12) in contrib/xv-2.11.tar.Z and the other standard X11 FTP\n sites.\n\n The FAQ for the Usenet group alt.binaries.pictures discusses image\n formats and how to get image viewing software. A copy of this document\n is available by anonymous FTP from the Usenet FAQ archives at\n pit-manager.mit.edu (18.72.1.58), in directory\n pub/usenet/alt.binaries.pictures.\n\n\nONLINE ARCHIVES\n\n NASA AMES\n\n Extensive archives are maintained at NASA Ames and are available via\n anonymous FTP or an email server. These archives include many images and\n a wide variety of documents including this FAQ list, NASA press\n releases, shuttle launch advisories, and mission status reports. Please\n note that these are NOT maintained on an official basis.\n\n FTP users should connect to ames.arc.nasa.gov (128.102.18.3) and look in\n pub/SPACE. pub/SPACE/Index contains a listing of files available in the\n archive (the index is about 200K by itself).\n\n To access the archives by email, send a letter to\n archive-server@ames.arc.nasa.gov (or ames!archive-server). In the\n subject of your letter (or in the body), use commands like:\n\n\tsend SPACE Index\n\tsend SPACE SHUTTLE/ss01.23.91.\n\n The capitalization of the subdirectory names is important. All are in\n caps. Only text files are handled by the email server at present; use\n one of the FTP email servers described in the introduction to this\n section for images or programs.\n\n The Magellan Venus and Voyager Jupiter, Saturn, and Uranus CD-ROM image\n disks have been put online in the CDROM and CDROM2 directories. The\n disks will be rotated on a weekly basis. Thousands of images are\n available in these collections.\n\n The GIF directory contains images in GIF format. The VICAR directory\n contains Magellan images in VICAR format (these are also available in\n the GIF directory). A PC program capable of displaying these files is\n found in the IMDISP directory (see the item \"VIEWING IMAGES\" below).\n\n The NASA media guide describes the various NASA centers and how to\n contact their public affairs officers; this may be useful when pursuing\n specific information. It's in MISC/media.guide.\n\n Any problems with the archive server should be reported to Peter Yee\n (yee@ames.arc.nasa.gov).\n\n\n NASA ASTROPHYSICS DATA SYSTEM\n\n The ADS is a distributed data retrieval system which is easy to use and\n provides uniform access to ground-based and space-based astronomy data\n from NASA data centers across the country. It currently has over 140\n data catalogs of radio, infrared, optical, UV, and X-ray data which can\n be queried by position or any other parameter in the catalog. The ADS\n also provides tools to manipulate and plot tabular results. In addition,\n ADS has a Beta version of an Abstracts Service which allows users to\n query over 125,000 abstracts of astronomy papers since 1975 by authors,\n keywords, title words, or abstract text words.\n\n ADS use requires direct Internet access. For more info and to sign up to\n become a user, email ads@cuads.coloradu.edu. The User's Guide and\n \"QuickStart\" Guide are available by anonymous FTP to sao-ftp.harvard.edu\n in directory pub/ads/ADS_User_Guide (PostScript files).\n\n Contact Carolyn Stern Grant (stern@cfa.harvard.edu).\n\n\n NASA JET PROPULSION LAB (MISSION INFORMATION AND IMAGES)\n\n pubinfo.jpl.nasa.gov (128.149.6.2) is an anonymous FTP site operated by\n the JPL Public Information Office, containing news releases, status\n reports, fact sheets, images, and other data on JPL missions. It may\n also be reached by modem at (818)-354-1333 (no parity, 8 data bits, 1\n stop bit).\n\n Contact newsdesk@jplpost.jpl.nasa.gov or phone (818)-354-7170.\n\n\n NASA LANGLEY (TECHNICAL REPORTS)\n\n techreports.larc.nasa.gov is an anonymous FTP site offering technical\n reports. To get started, cd to directory pub/techreports/larc/92 and\n retrieve files README and abstracts.92. Most files are compressed\n PostScript. The reports are also in a WAIS database with the following\n description:\n\n\t(:source\n\t :version 3\n\t :ip-name \"techreports.larc.nasa.gov\"\n\t :tcp-port 210\n\t :database-name \"nasa-larc-abs\"\n\t :cost 0.00\n\t :cost-unit :free\n\t :maintainer \"M.L.Nelson@LaRC.NASA.GOV\"\n\t :description \"NASA Langley Research Center Technical Reports\n\n Contact tr-admin@techreports.larc.nasa.gov.\n\n\n NASA SPACELINK\n\n SpaceLink is an online service located at Marshall Space Flight Center\n in Huntsville, Alabama. The system is specifically designed for\n teachers. The data base is arranged to provide easy access to current\n and historical information on NASA aeronautics, space research, and\n technology transfer information. Also included are suggested classroom\n activities that incorporate information on NASA projects to teach a\n number of scientific principles. Unlike bulletin board systems, NASA\n Spacelink does not provide for interaction between callers. However it\n does allow teachers and other callers to leave questions and comments\n for NASA which may be answered by regular mail. Messages are answered\n electronically, even to acknowledge requests which will be fulfilled by\n mail. Messages are generally handled the next working day except during\n missions when turnaround times increase. The mail system is closed-loop\n between the user and NASA.\n\n SpaceLink also offers downloadable shareware and public domain programs\n useful for science educators as well as space graphics and GIF images\n from NASA's planetary probes and the Hubble Telescope.\n\n You can dial in at (205)-895-0028 (300/1200/2400/9600(V.32) baud, 8\n bits, no parity, 1 stop bit), or telnet to spacelink.msfc.nasa.gov\n (128.158.13.250, also known as xsl.msfc.nasa.gov) if you're on the\n Internet. Anonymous FTP capability (password guest) is now available.\n\n Most of this information is also available from the Ames server in\n directory SPACELINK.\n\n\n NATIONAL SPACE SCIENCE DATA CENTER (NSSDC)\n\n The National Space Science Data Center is the official clearinghouse for\n NASA data. The data catalog (*not* the data itself) is available online.\n Internet users can telnet to nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov (128.183.36.23) and\n log in as 'NODIS' (no password). You can also get the catalog by sending\n email to 'request@nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov'.\n\n You can also dial in at (301)-286-9000 (300, 1200, or 2400 baud, 8 bits,\n no parity, one stop). At the \"Enter Number:\" prompt, enter MD and\n carriage return. When the system responds \"Call Complete,\" enter a few\n more carriage returns to get the \"Username:\" and log in as 'NODIS' (no\n password).\n\n The system is menu-driven; topics available as of 3/93 are:\n\n\t1 -\tMaster Directory - NASA & Global Change\n\t2 -\tPersonnel Information Management System\n\t3 -\tNimbus-7 GRID TOMS Data\n\t4 -\tInterplanetary Medium Data (OMNI)\n\t5 -\tRequest data and/or information from NSSDC\n\t6 -\tGeophysical Models\n\t7 -\tCANOPUS Newsletter\n\t8 -\tInternational Ultraviolet Explorer Data Request\n\t9 -\tCZCS Browse and Order Utility\n\t10 -\tAstronomical Data Center (ADC)\n\t11 -\tSTEP Bulletin Board Service\n\t12 -\tStandards and Technology Information System\n\t13 -\tPlanetary Science & Magellan Project Information\n\t14 -\tOther Online Data Services at NSSDC\n\t15 -\tCD-ROMS Available at NSSDC\n\n For users with Internet access, datasets are made available via\n anonymous FTP once you select the desired datasets from the online\n catalog. For other users, data may be ordered on CD-ROM and in other\n formats. Among the many types of data available are Voyager, Magellan,\n and other planetary images, Earth observation data, and star catalogs.\n Viewers for Macintosh and IBM systems are also available. As an example\n of the cost, an 8 CD set of Voyager images is $75. Data may ordered\n online, by email, or by physical mail. The postal address is:\n\n\tNational Space Science Data Center\n\tRequest Coordination Office\n\tGoddard Space Flight Center\n\tCode 633\n\tGreenbelt, MD 20771\n\n\tTelephone: (301) 286-6695\n\n\tEmail address:\t request@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov\n\n\n SPACE TELESCOPE SCIENCE INSTITUTE ELECTRONIC INFORMATION SERVICE\n\n stsci.edu (130.167.1.2) has a large amount of information about the\n Hubble Space Telescope available by anonymous FTP, such as status\n reports and newsletters, in addition to material oriented towards HST\n observers and proposers. Get the top level README file to begin with.\n Contact Pete Reppert (reppert@stsci.edu) or Chris O'Dea\n (odea@stsci.edu).\n\n\n STARCAT\n\n The Space Telescope European Coordination Facility, at ESO/Garching\n provides on-line access to a huge astronomical database, featuring\n\n\t- Observation log files of several satellites/telescopes\n\t (IUE,IRAS,HST,NTT...).\n\t- Spectra and images (IUE, HST).\n\t- Most of the astronomical catalogues (SAO, HR, NGC, PPM, IRAS,\n\t Veron, GSC and many others, more than 50) in a very convenient\n\t way (give center+radius+kind of objects, and you get the\n\t corresponding files!).\n\n Log on as ``starcat'' (no password) on node stesis.hq.eso.org\n (134.171.8.100) or on STESIS (DECnet). The files created can be\n retreived by FTP. Contact: Benoit Pirenne, bpirenne@eso.org (phone +49\n 89 320 06 433) at ST-ECF\n\n\n ASTRONOMICAL DATABASES\n\n The full SAO stellar database is *NOT* available online, probably due to\n the 40 MB size. It may be ordered on magnetic tape from the NSSDC. A\n subset containing position and magnitude only is available by FTP (see\n \"Astronomy Programs\" below).\n\n nic.funet.fi (128.214.6.100) has a large collection of astronomical\n programs for many types of computers, databases of stars and deep sky\n objects, and general astronomy information in directory /pub/astro. This\n site is mainly for European users, but overseas connections are\n possible.\n\n The Ames archives contain a database of 8,436 galaxies including name,\n RA, declination, magnitude, and radial velocity in MISC/galaxy.dat.\n Supplied by Wayne Hayes (wayne@csri.utoronto.ca).\n\n iris1.ucis.dal.ca (129.173.18.107) has a number of GIFs from Voyager,\n Hubble, and other sources available by anonymous FTP in pub/gif (most of\n this data is also in SPACE/GIF on the Ames server). Please restrict\n access to 5pm - 8am Atlantic time.\n\n pomona.claremont.edu has the Yale Bright Star catalog for anonymous FTP\n in directory [.YALE_BSC]. Contact James Dishaw\n (jdishaw@hmcvax.claremont.edu).\n\n The Hubble Guide Star catalog is available on CD-ROM for the Mac and PC\n for $49.95 US (catalog # ST101).\n\n\tAstronomical Society of the Pacific\n\t390 Ashton Ave.\n\tSan Francisco, CA 94112\n\tPhone: (415) 337-2624 9 AM - 3 PM Pacific Time\n\tFAX: (415) 337-5205\n\n For German (and possibly other European) readers, Jost Jahn has a\n service to distribute astronomical data to interested amateurs at cost.\n About 30-40 catalogs are available for DM 6..8/disk. Several floppy disk\n formats are available. Because of the expense of receiving email on his\n system, he asks that you contact him by physical mail:\n\n\tJost Jahn\n\tNeustaedter Strasse 11\n\tW-3123 Bodenteich\n\tGERMANY\n\tPhone: FRG-5824-3197\n\n\n ASTRONOMY PROGRAMS\n\n Various astronomy-related programs and databases posted to the net in\n the past are archived for anonymous FTP at multiple sites, including\n ftp.uu.net (137.39.1.9). Also see the ASTRO-FTP list posted to sci.astro\n monthly, which is more complete than this list.\n\n Astonomical/Space-related sources of interest in comp.sources.unix:\n\n Volume 8:\t phoon\tmoon phase and date routines\n Volume 12,13: starchart\tstarchart program & Yale Star data\n Volume 15:\t moontool\tshows moon phase picture on Suns\n Volume 16:\t sao\t\treduced SAO catalog\n\n Astonomical/Space-related sources of interest in comp.sources.misc:\n\n Volume 8:\t moon\tanother moon phase program\n Volume 11:\t starchart\tstarchart program, version 3.2\n Volume 11:\t n3emo-orbit orbit: track earth satellites\n Volume 12:\t starchart2\tstarchart program, update to version 3.2.1\n Volume 13:\t jupmoons\tplotter for Jupiter's major moons [in perl]\n Volume 13:\t lunisolar\tlunisolar (not sure what this does)\n Volume 14:\t ephem-4.21\tastronomical ephemeris, v4.21\n Volume 14:\t n3emo-orbit patch to orbit 3.7\n Volume 18:\t planet\tplanet generation simulator\n\n Elwood Downey (e_downey@tasha.cca.cr.rockwell.com), the author of\n \"ephem\", has offered to mail copies to people who can't find it on one\n of the archives.\n\n XSAT, an X Window System based satellite tracking program, is\n available by anonymous FTP from export.lcs.mit.edu (18.24.0.12) in\n contrib/xsat1.0.tar.Z. Contact Dave Curry (davy@ecn.purdue.edu)\n for more information.\n\n Xsky, a computerized sky atlas for the X Window System, is available for\n anonymous FTP on arizona.edu in the directory [.SOFTWARE.UNIX.XSKY] as\n xsky.tarz. Contact Terry R. Friedrichsen (terry@venus.sunquest.com) for\n more information.\n\n The \"Variable Stars Analysis Software Archive\" is available via\n anonymous FTP from kauri.vuw.ac.nz (130.195.11.3) in directory\n pub/astrophys. This is intended for specialists in this field, and they\n would appreciate people from outside New Zealand confining their FTP\n access to the astrophys directory, as they pay a significant amount for\n Internet access. Contents are relatively sparse at present due to the\n youth of the archive - contributions are encouraged. Contact the archive\n administrator, Timothy Banks (bankst@kauri.vuw.ac.nz) for more\n information.\n\n The \"IDL Astronomy Users Library\" is available by anonymous FTP from\n idlastro.gsfc.nasa.gov (128.183.57.82). This is a central repository for\n general purpose astronomy procedures written in IDL, a commercial image\n processing, plotting, and programming language. Contact Wayne Landsman\n (landsman@stars.gsfc.nasa.gov) for more information.\n\n\n ORBITAL ELEMENT SETS\n\n The most recent orbital elements from the NASA Prediction Bulletins are\n carried on the Celestial BBS, (513)-427-0674. Documentation and tracking\n software are also available on this system. The Celestial BBS may be\n accessed 24 hours/day at 300, 1200, or 2400 baud using 8 data bits, 1\n stop bit, no parity.\n\n Orbital element sets are available via anonymous FTP from the\n following sites:\n\n archive.afit.af.mil (129.92.1.66)\t NASA,TVRO,Shuttle\n directory: /pub/space\n\n ftp.funet.fi (128.214.6.100)\t NASA,TVRO,Molczan,CelBBS,\n directory: /pub/astro/pc/satel\t Shuttle (*)\n\n kilroy.jpl.nasa.gov (128.149.1.165) NASA,Molczan\n directory: /pub/space/\n\n\n SPACE DIGEST ARCHIVES\n\n Copies of back issues of Space Digest are archived on\n LISTSERV@UGA.BITNET. Send mail containing the message \"INDEX SPACE\" to\n get an index of files; send it the message \"GET filename filetype\" to\n get a particular file.\n\n\nLANDSAT AND NASA PHOTOS\n\n You can get black-and-white 1:1M prints, negatives, or positives for\n $10, $18, $12 respectively for any Landsat data more than 2 years old\n from EDC, (Eros (Earth Resources Orbiting Satellite) Data Center). Call\n them at (605)-594-6511. You get 80 meter resolution from the MSS\n scanner, 135x180 kilometers on a picture 135x180 mm in size. I think you\n have to select one band from (green, red, near IR, second near IR), but\n I'm not sure. Digitial data is also available at higher prices.\n\n Transparencies of all NASA photos available to the public can be\n borrowed from the NASA photo archive; you can have copies or prints\n made.\n\n\t NASA Audio-Visual Facility\n\t 918 North Rengstorff Ave\n\t Mountain View, CA 94043\n\t (415)-604-6270\n\n\nPLANETARY MAPS\n\n The USGS address for maps of the planets is:\n\n U.S. Geological Survey,\n Distribution Branch,\n Box 25286, Federal Center, Bldg. 41\n Denver, CO 80225\n\n Maps cost $2.40 to $3.10 per sheet (a few come in sets of 2 or 3 sheets).\n\n The best global maps of Mars based on Viking images are 1:15,000,000\n scale in 3 sheets. These maps are:\n\n I-1535 (2 sheets only) - relief, albedo, names\n I-1535\n I-1618 (3 sheets) - relief, names\n I-2030 (3 sheets) - relief, topographic contours\n I-1802-A,B,C (3 sheets) - geology\n\n There are many other maps as well: 30 sheets at 1:5,000,000 scale in\n relief, albedo, geology, photomosaic forms (not all 30 sheets available\n in all formats); 140 sheets at 1:2,000,000 scale as photomosaics of the\n whole planet, about 100 sheets of interesting sites at 1:500,000 scale\n in photomosaic format, and lots of special sheets.\n\n Then there are maps of Mercury, Venus, the Moon, the four Galilean\n Satellites, six moons of Saturn and five of Uranus. [Phil Stooke\n (stooke@vaxr.sscl.uwo.ca), the author of this item, has offered to\n respond to email requests for information on any topic relating to lunar\n and planetary maps.]\n\n\nCOMETARY ORBIT DATA\n\n The Central Bureau for Astronomical Telegrams and the Minor Planet\n Center announce the sixth edition of the Catalogue of Cometary Orbits in\n IAU Circular 4935. The catalogue contains 1292 entries which represent\n all known comets through November 1989 and is 96 pages long.\n Non-subscribers to the Circulars may purchase the catalogue for $15.00\n while the cost to subscribers is $7.50. The basic catalogue in ASCII\n along with a program to extract specific orbits and calculate\n ephemerides is available on MS-DOS 5.25-inch 2S2D diskette at a cost of\n $75.00 (the program requires an 8087 math coprocessor). The catalogue\n alone is also available by e-mail for $37.50 or on magnetic tape for\n $300.00.\n\n Except for the printed version of the catalogue, the various magnetic\n media or e-mail forms of the catalogue do not specifically meantion\n non-subscribers. It is possible that these forms of the catalogue may\n not be available to non-subscribers or that their prices may be more\n expensive than those given. Mail requests for specific information and\n orders to:\n\n\tCentral Bureau for Astronomical Telegrams\n\tSmithsonian Astrophysical Observatory\n\tCambridge, MA 02138, USA\n", "I have got a dot matrix printer that came with a Lisa (I think) I wish to attach it to a PC, but have no manual. I have been told that it is some sort of C.Itoh printer in disguise. Can anyone help with manuals or info about codes to send to select fonts, italics etc. I want to write a printer driver for Protext.\n\nThanks in advance\n\nStuart", "I have a 1.2GB full size Seagate SCSI2 disk for sale. Model No. is ST41200N\n\nThis is a brand new disk, never been used or formatted. \n\nSend me your offer at lohia@bharat.aux.apple.com", "he\n\n\n Are we talking about ColorView for DOS here? \n I have version 2.0 and it writes the temp files to its own\n current directory.\n What later versions do, I admit that I don't know.\n Assuming your \"expert\" referenced above is talking about\n the version that I have, then I'd say he is correct.\n Is the ColorView for unix what is being discussed?\n Just mixed up, confused, befuddled, but genuinely and\n entirely curious....\n\n Uncle Fester\n", "I have WD1007-WA2 ESDI controller with ROM BIOS v.1.1.\nIt has been working fine until I recently upgraded motherboard to 386-40MHz.\nNow, my Maxter drive goes crazy making lots of seeking sound even when the\ndrive is not accessed. Of course, with numourous hard disk controller errors.\nThese symptoms disappear when I switch to non-turbo mode (8 MHz).\nI suspect some timing dependent Rom Bios routines. (There's a newer version\n2.x) Could anybody help me on this?\nBy the way, my new mother board has AMI Bios, 128k Cache, 8 MHz bus, and\nworks fine with my old MFM drives (I had to dig them up). :-(\nAlso, I will appreciate it very much if somebody send me the phone numbers\n(tech support/BBS) for Western Digital.\nMany thanks in advance.\n\nJay", "\n: \tThese games are forsale (or trade):\n\n: \t\t\t* Sonic Hedgehog II (two copies)\n: \t\t\t + manuals and cases ..\n: \t\t\t$25 each..\n: \t\t\t(brand new!)_\n\nHello, I am interested in Sonic II but when I send to the address below\nI get mail bounced back with \"Host unknow\" error.\n\n\n: \tPlease reply to : kwill@lunatix.UUCP \n: \t\t(subject: games)\n\n--", "\nAn added advantate of waiting for the DayStar for the SE/30 is that,\njust as with the '030 power cache, the '040 accelerator will plug into\nthe CPU socket, leaving the PDS slot free for a video card or ethernet\ncard. With DayStar's upgrade path, it's a no lose situation.\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nEarl D. Fife | Department of Mathematics\nfife@calvin.edu | Calvin College\n(616)957-6403 | Grand Rapids, MI 49546", "Does anyone know where I can find a code which would take concave\npolygons and break them up into a set of convex polygons?\n\nThanks,", "I have a Gateway 4DX-33V with my 3.5 inch floppy as drive A. I\naccidentally discovered that if a have a floppy from ONE particular\nbox of diskettets in the A drive when I boot up, rather than getting\nthe \"Non-system diskette\" message, the machine hangs and the CMOS\ngets overwritten (luckily, Gateway sends a print of the standard\nCMOS settings with their systems). This only happens with a box\nof pre-formatted Fuji disks that I have, no other disks cause this\nproblem. If I re-format one of the Fuji disks, the problem goes away.\nI did a virus scan (scan v1.02) of the disks and found nothing.\n\nAnyone have any idea what is going on here? Hardware problem? A\nvirus that can't be detected? The system reading in garbage from\nthe boot sector?\n", "I have an unopened CD called \"Bird-The Original Recordings of Charlie\nParker\" It has on it, among others: Miles Davis, Dizzy Gillespie,\nRed Rodney, Thelonious Monk, and Lester Young.\nI would be willing to sell it to the highest bidder, or else to trade\nit for another jazz CD that I would be interested in.", "\nI don't know the answer to your direct question, but if the Mac Superdrive can \nread MS-DOS disks (can it??) then you can transfer files between the NeXT and \na Mac by using MS-DOS formatted disks since the NeXT *can* read/write that \nformat. And if you're interested in transferring files, you can also do it \nover the serial port using kermit.", "I remember reading about a program that made windows icons run away\nfrom the mouse as it moved near them. Does anyone know the name\nof this program and the ftp location (probably at cica)\n", "Has anybody generated an X server for Windows NT? If so, are you willing\nto share your config file and other tricks necessary to make it work?\n\nThanks for any information.", "Awhile back someone posted some information on where you can get\nkits to build an EEG. Does anyone remember where you could get\nthis. I'm very interested in getting some info on this. Thanks \nin advance.\n\neric", "\nThat figure (1/4\") for image rotation would seem to be a little high...\non my NEC 5FG the specs call for no greater than 3mm (0.12\").\n\n\nI can't speak for MAG Innovision but as far as NEC is concerned, they are\nadjusted to \"factory-spec\" before leaving the central USA distribution point\n(MA) for the eastern Canadian market. Now, here's the key: NEC *knows* that\nthe >=15\" monitors' adjustments are very sensitive to shipping over\ndistances (with all the bumps, rough handling, and such) and therefore\n*expect* and (at least in theory) *require* that the local *distributor*\n(not dealer) have it adjusted at the *local* service centre (Bull HN\nInformation Systems in Toronto) before sale. This is the correct and\nprobably only way of having any chance of receiving a \"perfect\" monitor\n(the definition of \"perfect\" seems to depend on how picky one is, in my\ncase quite :).\n\n\nI, for one, was not willing to accept what I considered a substandard\nmonitor and, after two months of wrangling and direct contact with NEC,\nfinally received a satisfactorily adjusted monitor (not perfect, IMHO,\nbut a major improvement over what the dealer and distributor were trying\nconvince me was \"normal\"). The short answer is no, don't accept these\n\"imperfections\" as \"normal\" because for the premium one pays for the\nlarger screen monitors, one has a right to expect higher quality, and\nif you're persistent, you'll receive it.\n\n", "I have used JVC's top of the line portable cd player for three months now.\nI have mostly used it in my car on long trips, so it has less than 20 hours of use on it. The unit is one of the best that I have seen and listened to, but\nI am going to part with it to install a disc changer in my car.\n\nFeatures include:\n\t17 Hz - 20,000 Hz\n\trechargeable nicad batteries\n\twireless remote control\n\tAC adaptor\n\theadphones\n\tcarrying belt and case\n\tdigital 6 band graphic eq with spectrum analyzer\n\t\t25 presets, 5 user programmable\n\tRCA connections and cord\n\tJVC compulink capability (cord included)\n\tprogrammable from remote\n\tintro, random, repeat playback\n\nI will include a Discwasher (tm) power converter to convert an automobile's\n12v DC to the 5.5V DC that the unit requires. I had to buy this one because\nit was the only one that fits, (JVC makes a unique connection that cannot be\nfound at Radio Shack etc).\n\nI paid $235 for the disc player and another $30 for the power converter.\nI will sell the disc player alone for $180, or both items for $190.\n\nSend replies to harrij@rpi.edu or (518)271-7942", "\nYes, you could.\n\n\nWell, letsee (whipping out HP-48SX, soon to be GX): 6 inches/3*10^8 m/s=.5\nnanoseconds resolution. Hmm. That'll be rather difficult!\n\nThe more standard (read: better) method is to use ultrasound, generally\nsomewhere around 40kHz. Sound travels a heck of a lot slower than light\n(radio waves), and is therefore much easier to deal with.\n\n\nIt might be easiest to visit a hardware store and look at the numerous\n\"sonic estimator\" type devices that do what you want here. Many are pretty \ncheap too -- <$30. (In fact, for awhile the Stanley Estimator was selling\nfor something like $8. That's the one I bought! :-) )", "\n\nWHen trying to choose a resistor with a tolerance better than 1%, you \nneed a trimmer or to screen devices, it can't be made from adding 2 \nresitors of 1% value in parallel, since the smaller device will have the \nerror of 1% to cope with. \nYou have 3 choices;\na) live with the error of 1% tolerance devices for low Q circuits or low \nsensitivity designs\nb) buy resistors with better than 1% tolerance (Vishay/Dale)\nc) use trimmers or SOT's (Select-On-Test)", "\nI could never find the Microsoft mouse driver on my Windows 3.1 installation\ndisks, but DOS 6.0 also has version 8.20 of MOUSE.COM.\n\n\n---", "\nThe x3270 at export.lcs.mit.edu supposedly does. I use another x3270\nthat was cleaned up by Brian Ward which adds better\ncolor support, and cleans up _lots_ of bugs, as well as cut&paste.\nI just put it on export.lcs.mit.edu, as x3270v2.65beta.tar.Z.\n\n--Dave", "\nMake sure you use the small fonts driver & not the large fonts driver. Check\nthat in your setup. That's the only explanation I would find.\n\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\tHope this helps\n", "I'm considering buying one of these to offload the internal video\nin my IIci and to get 24 bit color capability on my 13\" monitor. What's\nthe deal on them?\n\n1) Do they come with varying amounts of RAM? If so, what is the max\nand min? How much do I need for 640 x 480 x 24 bits?\n\n2) What bit depths are supported? One, 2, 4, 8, 16, and 24?\n\n3) Are all these cards accelerated or just some? Is it true that\nmodern accelerated video cards are (at least in general) faster? What\nbit depths are accelerated, all or just 24 bit? I've heard that some\napplications actually run *slower* with this card if they write directly\nto the screen (or something like that). Is this a frequent problem?\nHow much slower is it?\n\n4) Didn't I read (when System 7 first came out) that the card was\nincompatible? If so, how was this corrected (Finder patch, some INIT,\nor other)? Has it been kept compatible with 7.1? Are there many other\napps that it is incompatible with (games or important (i.e., non-\nMicrosloth) apps, for example)?\n\n5) If you have a strong opinion on it's value for someone in my position,\nlet me know what you think a reasonable price is to pay for it.\n\nThanks a lot for you input.\nRick\n", "\n\n\n\n\tYes, but... the minimization of gates is important in part\nbecause of TIMING considerations. A TTL gate has the basic structure\nof AND/OR/INVERT, and an inversion of a sum of a product is just\nexactly ONE gate delay. The reason to find a minimal sum of products\nis that this matches a hardware optimization.\n\n\tA positive-OR gate (such as the 9-gate solution uses) has\nTWO gate delays (and there's another gate delay in the second term)\nso that the second solution, while simpler in logic symbols, can \nbe expected to be something less than optimal in the real world.\nECL is similar to TTL, in that it can support an OR/AND\ngate with the minimum delay (unlike TTL, you get both true and\ninverse outputs for 'free' when using ECL).\n\n\tPALs are basically large programmable AND/OR/INVERT\ngates (with your choice of internal connections between the\nvarious sections, and perhaps some latches), so a minimum sum\nof products ALSO is a way to shoehorn a logic design into \na few PALs. It's not comparably easy to design with a minimization\nof logic gates, but some software packages claim to allow you to\ndo so, and will take just about any mess of gates (as a nodelist\nwith 74xxx series logic ICs) and produce a description of\na logic cell array to do the same job. Xilinx's XACT software\ndoes this by treating each logic block as a macro, and expanding\nit all out, then simplifying.", "ITEMS FOR SALE - PRICE LISTED OR BEST OFFER!!!!!!!\n\nKFC SVGA Monitor 1024X768 .28DP Non-interlaced 14\" \nScreen, still under warranty! (Brand New) $ 290.00\n\n1200 Baud Compuadd Modem Box/docs/software $ 20.00\n\nCGA Monitor with Cga/Parallel Card $ 30.00\n\nSCO UNIX V3.2.2 Unlimited User OS, has the base\nand extended Utilities, and UUCP $ 150.00\n\nTurbo C/Turbo C++ The complete reference book. $ 15.00\n\nSerial I/O Card 1 serial Port $ 10.00\n\nJoystick, three button $ 10.00\n\nIDE Controller with 2 Serial, 1 parallel and one\nGame port 2 available. $ 10.00Each", "No. The Always IN-2000, among others requires no drivers for up to 7 SCSI\nhard drives. DOS does not have a 2 drive maximum, as I already have 3. All\nis done in hardware, there's no software drivers at all.", "The complete set of the adventures of Buck Rogers is forsale. Make a \nREASONABLE offer. Email me back if interested. Thanks.", "The 3FGx has a maximum horizontal scan rate of 49KHz, so driving it\nat 60.24KHz to get 1024 x 768 on the Mac is WAY BEYOND the tolerance The 4FG is spec'ed at 57KHz, so going 60.24KHz is only 5-6% above\nthe minimally guaranteed figure.\n\nI too doubt if the Damark monitor would sync to a Mac at 1024 x 768. Like most things, you get what you pay. That's the deal.\n\n-John Rutirasiri.", "\nI'm not 100% sure, but I think the T800 was a 25MHz transputer? so ya tie\na gazillion of them together to get 100mips. (The newest is the T9000\nwhich kicks anyone's butt :)... haven't seen them used much though).\n\nAnyway, to respond, I think the Pentium (CISC) is better than the more advanced\nRISC (e.g., like the alpha, etc. the 66MHz Pentium has approximately the\nsame \"performance\" as the superduper 133MHz Alpha - here, performance is the\nweird Specint92 that everyone refers to? - this is what I *heard* - the\nAlpha still kicks in the P5's butt in fp - again, this is what I *heard*).\nand in the computing world, if you sell lots of chips (like intel), and\nmake it faster (like intel), you are the winner (like intel), even though\nyou have a sucky architecture from over 10 years ago (like intel :0).\n\nIf you can make a \"CISC\" chip (superscalar, superduperpipelined, superfast)\nwith the ideas behind the \"RISC\" ideology, you got a CISC chip. And then\nI admit I can't see the advantages of RISC over CISC...\n\nIf the latest technology is a generation behind, then it sucks (relatively\nspeaking).\n\nNow I may sound like I like intel, but I'll have to say that the P5 is some\nreal kick butt pile of Si and SiO2...\n\nBut I hope that Motorola really catches up with the 68K line... or I'm gonna\nstart crying...\n\nbrian\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nBrian \"Hojo\" Lee | \"Hey, excuse me miss, could I have a .GIF of you?\"\nleebr@ecf.toronto.edu |\nleebr@eecg.toronto.edu | (try Linux... the best and free UN*X clone!)", "\nHave you tried the library?\nSince you go to WPI (so do I), go to AK and look on the first floor, a \nprofessor has posted an IEEE (i believe) spec sheet on the 68060 which\nis around 10 pages long. I'm sure the library has the info you request, It's\njust a matter of finding it.\n\n\nHope this helps,\nBret Chase\n\n\n", "Forsale:\nNintendo control Deck with two controllers and gun, one controller has\ngrips attached. \nthe NES will only connect to a composite monitor or TV with audio and\nvideo RCA Input jacks and needs some repairs. \n25$ or best offer\n\ngames for sale \n15$ Tecmo Baseball\n15$ Techmo Bowl\n15$ Double Dribble\n15$ Wayne Gretzky Hockey\n15$ Golf\n10$ Super Mario/Duck Hunt\n10$ Toobin'\n10$ Spelunker\n25$ Tecmo Super Bowl\n============\n130$ total, I'll give all of them to you for 100$ or best offer and throw\nin the control deck...\n\nI'll also accept the best offer for each of the games\n\nthe oldest of these is two years old, most of them are less than a year old.", "Hi!\n\nCould anyone tell me if it's possible to save each frame\nof a .gl (grasp) animation to .gif, .jpg, .iff or any other\npicture formats.\n\n(I've got some animations that I'd like to transfer to my Amiga)\n \nI really hope that someone can help me.\n\nCheers", "Has anybody gotten CVIEW to work in 32k or 64k color mode on a Trident\n8900c hi-color card? At best the colors come out screwed up, and at worst the \nprogram hangs. I loaded the VESA driver, and the same thing happens on 2 \ndifferent machines.\n\n\tIf it doesn't work on the Trident, does anybody know of a viewer that \ndoes?", "\nUnless I am completely misunderstanding you, try using either Notepad or\nsysedit.exe (found in your system subdirectory) to edit you .ini files.\n\nThe sysedit.exe program is cool because it automatically opens you win.ini,\nsystem.ini, autoexec.bat and config.sys files to be edited.", "\nActually, old video games and pinball machines are supposed to work pretty\ngood (at blocking EM eavesdropping), too. Those things put out a LOT of EM\nnoise. Back in the 80's, I read about computer companies putting bunches\nof games in their buildings for just this purpose (not to mention the $$$).\n", "I know what the 68HC811E2 is all about, but I'm trying to figure\nout what the 68SEC811E2 is... specifically, what does the SEC\nstand for?\n", ":>Curtis JAckson pens...\n:>\n:>\"MSF course...$140\"\n:\n:Shyah!\n:\n:The one here only costs $35!\n:\n:(Izzat a deal or what?! :)\n\n\nThey are free in Philadelphia.... :-)\n\n-- \n '81 CB650 \t\t\t\t\t\tDoD #1224", "-------------------------------------\n\t+ ............The OTIS Project '93 + \n\t+ \"The Operative Term Is STIMULATE\" + \n\t-------------------------------------\n\t---this file last updated..4-21-93---\n\n\nWHAT IS OTIS?\n\nOTIS is here for the purpose of distributing original artwork\nand photographs over the network for public perusal, scrutiny, \nand distribution. Digital immortality.\n\nThe basic idea behind \"digital immortality\" is that computer networks \nare here to stay and that anything interesting you deposit on them\nwill be around near-forever. The GIFs and JPGs of today will be the\nartifacts of a digital future. Perhaps they'll be put in different\nformats, perhaps only surviving on backup tapes....but they'll be\nthere...and someone will dig them up. \n \nIf that doesn't interest you... OTIS also offers a forum for critique\nand exhibition of your works....a virtual art gallery that never closes\nand exists in an information dimension where your submissions will hang\nas wallpaper on thousands of glowing monitors. Suddenly, life is \nbreathed into your work...and by merit of it's stimulus, it will \ntravel the globe on pulses of light and electrons.\n \nSpectators are welcome also, feel free to browse the gallery and \nlet the artists know what you think of their efforts. Keep your own\ncopies of the images to look at when you've got the gumption...\nthat's what they're here for.\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------\n\nWHERE? \n\nOTIS currently (as of 4/21/93) has two FTP sites. \n \n \t141.214.4.135 (projects/otis), the UWI site\n\t\t\n\tsunsite.unc.edu (/pub/multimedia/pictures/OTIS), the SUNsite \n\t(you can also GOPHER to this site for OTIS as well)\n\nMerely \"anonymous FTP\" to either site on Internet and change to the\nappropriate directory. Don't forget to get busy and use the \"bin\"\ncommand to make sure you're in binary.\n\nOTIS has also been spreading to some dial-up BBS systems around North\nAmerica....the following systems have a substancial supply of\nOTIStuff...\n\tUnderground Cafe (Omaha) (402.339.0179) 2 lines\n\tCyberDen (SanFran?) (415.472.5527) Usenet Waffle-iron\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------\n \nHOW DO YOU CONTRIBUTE?\n \nWhat happens is...you draw a pretty picture or take a lovely \nphoto, get it scanned into an image file, then either FTP-put\nit in the CONTRIB/Incoming directory or use UUENCODE to send it to me\n(email addresses at eof) in email. After the image is received,\nit will be put into the correct directory. Computer originated works\nare also welcome.\n\nOTIS' directories house two types of image files, GIF and JPG. \nGIF and JPG files require, oddly enough, a GIF or JPG viewer to \nsee. These viewers are available for all types of computers at \nmost large FTP sites around Internet. JPG viewers are a bit\ntougher to find. If you can't find one, but do have a GIF viewer, \nyou can obtain a JPG-to-GIF conversion program which will change \nJPG files to a standard GIF format. \n\nOTIS also accepts animation files. \n\nWhen you submit image files, please send me email at the same time\nstating information about what you uploaded and whether it is to be\nused (in publications or other projects) or if it is merely for people\nto view. Also, include some biographical information on yourself, we'll\nbe having info-files on each contributing artist and their works. You \ncan also just upload a text-file of info about yourself (instead of \nemailing).\n\nIf you have pictures, but no scanner, there is hope. Merely send\ncopies to:\n\nThe OTIS Project\nc/o Ed Stastny\nPO BX 241113\nOmaha, NE 68124-1113\n\nI will either scan them myself or get them to someone who will \nscan them. Include an ample SASE if you want your stuff back. \nAlso include information on each image, preferably a 1-3 line \ndescription of the image that we can include in the infofile in the\ndirectory where it's finally put. If you have preferences as to what\nthe images are to be named, include those as well. \n \nConversely, if you have a scanner and would like to help out, please\ncontact me and we'll arrange things.\n\nIf you want to submit your works by disk, peachy. Merely send a 3.5\"\ndisk to the above address (Omaha) and a SASE if you want your disk back.\nThis is good for people who don't have direct access to encoders or FTP,\nbut do have access to a scanner. We accept disks in either Mac or IBM\ncompatible format. If possible, please submit image files as GIF or\nJPG. If you can't...we can convert from most formats...we'd just rather\nnot have to.\n\nAt senders request, we can also fill disks with as much OTIS as they\ncan stand. Even if you don't have stuff to contribute, you can send\na blank disk and an SASE (or $2.50 for disk, postage and packing) to \nget a slab-o-OTIS.\n\nAs of 04/21/93, we're at about 18 megabytes of files, and growing. \nEmail me for current archive size and directory.\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nDISTRIBUTION?\n\nThe images distributed by the OTIS project may be distributed freely \non the condition that the original filename is kept and that it is\nnot altered in any way (save to convert from one image format to\nanother). In fact, we encourage files to be distributed to local \nbulletin boards and such. If you could, please transport the\nappropriate text files along with the images. \n \nIt would also be nice if you'd send me a note when you did post images\nfrom OTIS to your local bbs. I just want to keep track of them so\nparticipants can have some idea how widespread their stuff is.\n\nIt's the purpose of OTIS to get these images spread out as much as\npossible. If you have the time, please upload a few to your favorite\nBBS system....or even just post this \"info-file\" there. It would be\nkeen of you.\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nUSE?\n\nIf you want to use any of the works you find on the OTIS directory,\nyou'll have to check to see if permission has been granted and the \nstipulations of the permission (such as free copy of publication, or\nfull address credit). You will either find this in the \".rm\" file for \nthe image or series of images...or in the \"Artists\" directory under the \nArtists name. If permission isn't explicitly given, then you'll have \nto contact the artist to ask for it. If no info is available, email\nme (ed@cwis.unomaha.edu), and I'll get in contact with the artist for \nyou, or give you their contact information.\n \nWhen you DO use permitted work, it's always courteous to let the artist\nknow about it, perhaps even send them a free copy or some such\ncompensation for their files.\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nNAMING IMAGES?\n\nPlease keep the names of your files in \"dos\" format. That means, keep\nthe filename (before .jpg or .gif) to eight characters or less. The way\nI usually do it is to use the initials of the artist, plus a three or\nfour digit \"code\" for the series of images, plus the series number.\nThus, Leonardo DeVinci's fifth mechanical drawing would be something\nlike:\n \n\tldmek5.gif OR ldmek5.jpg OR ldmech5.gif ETC\n\nKeeping the names under 8 characters assures that the filename will\nremain intact on all systems. \n\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------- \n\nCREATING IMAGE FILES?\n\nWhen creating image files, be sure to at least include your name\nsomewhere on or below the picture. This gives people a reference in\ncase they'd like to contact you. You may also want to include a title,\naddress or other information you'd like people to know.\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nHMMM?!\n\nThat's about it for now. More \"guidelines\" will be added as needed.\nYour input is expected.\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nDISCLAIMER: The OTIS Project has no connection to the Church of OTIS \n \t (a sumerian deity) or it's followers, be they pope, priest,\n\t or ezine administrator. We do take sacrifices and donations\n\t however.\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nDISCLAIMER: The OTIS Project is here for the distribution of original \n \t image files. The files will go to the public at large. \n\t It's possible, as with any form of mass-media, that someone\n\t could unscrupulously use your images for financial gain. \n \t Unless you've given permission for that, it's illegal. OTIS\n\t takes no responsibility for this. In simple terms, all rights\n\t revert to the author/artist. To leave an image on OTIS is to \n\t give permission for it to be viewed, copied and distributed \n\t electronically. If you don't want your images distributed \n\t all-over, don't upload them. To leave an image on OTIS is\n\t NOT giving permission to have it used in any publication or\n\t broadcast that incurs profit (this includes, but is not \n\t limited to, magazines, newsletters, clip-art software, \n\t screen-printed clothing, etc). You must give specific\n\t permission for this sort of usage. \n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nRemember, the operative term is \"stimulate\". If you know of people\nthat'd be interested in this sort of thing...get them involved...kick'm\nin the booty....offer them free food...whatever...\n\n....e (ed@cwis.unomaha.edu)\n (ed@sunsite.unc.edu)\n", "\n\n\n\n\nTheir should be no difference in the drive itself between IBM-PC and Mac.\nThe two main differences are the formatting of the disk itself (but with\nthe correct software each can read the others) and maybe the cable\n(depends on your SCSI board on IBM-PC).\n\nIf you get some Mac softawre to allow mounting of ANY IBM-formatted disk\nand the correct cable you should br able to mount and read your IBM-PC\nsyquest.\n\ngood luck,\n\n--Paul\n\n-- \n +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+\n | Paul Hardwick | Technical Consulting | InterNet: hardwick@panix.com |\n | P.O. Box 1482 | for MVS (SP/XA/ESA) | Voice: (212) 535-0998 |\n | NY, NY 10274 | and 3rd party addons | Fax: (212) Pending |\n +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+", "\nThe VL-IDE Adapter can be much faster then the normal IDE, it depends on the\ndrive you use and the board you use. I am using a NoName VL-IDE I/O Contr.\nit is tested under coretest with 2.000 kb/s using a cheap Seagate 3196 and nearly\n4000 kb/s using a WD-Caviar 2340, you have figure out the jumper setting on the\ncontroller to get reliable diskaccess, fastest setting gets 4600 kb/s under Coretest\nbut does not work reliable. You have to shadow the adapter BIOS to get the fast\nspeed. I haven´t used a VL-IDE-Cache controller yet, but it might speed up twice.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\tdieter\n", "I once read an article on Computer technology which stated that \nevery new computer technology was actually lower and slower then what it\nreplaced. Silicon was less effective then the germanium products\nthen available. GaAs was less capable then Silicon. Multi-processors\nwere slower then existent single processors.\n\nWhat the argument was, though was that these new technologies promised either\ntheoretically future higher performance or lower cost or higher densities.\n\nI think that the DC-1 may g=fit into this same model.\n\nELV's can certainly launch more weight then a SSRT, but \nan SSRT offers the prospect of greater cycle times and lower costs.\n\nThis is kind of a speculative posting, but I thought i'd throw it out as\na hjistorical framework for those interested in the project.", "To: ad994@Freenet.carleton.ca\n\nJW> 1) Where is there a book or code that will teach me how\nJW> to read and write pcx,dbf,and gif files?\n\nJW> 2) How do I access the extra ram on my paradise video board\nJW> so I can do paging in the higher vga modes ie: 320x200x256\nJW> 800x600x256\n\nJW> 3) anybody got a line on a good book to help answer these question?\n\nHere are some that I have that are very good:\n\n Graphics File Formats, Kay and Levine, ISBN 0-8306-3059-7\n Supercharged Bitmapped Graphics, Rimmer, ISBN 0-8306-3788-5\n Programmer's Guide to the EGA and VGA Cards, Ferraro,\n ISBN 0-201-57025-4 (has a whole chapter on Paradise SVGA)\n\nDave", "I am looking for a package that implements standard\nimage processing functions (reading/writing from\nstandard formats), clipping, zoom, etc. implemented\nunder X. Both public domain and private packages\nare of interest. The particular application area I\nhave in mind is medical imaging, but a package meant\nfor a more general context would be acceptable.\n\nPlease reply to me; I will summarize on the net if\nthere is general interest.", "\n\n\n\t\n\n\tAccepted by whom? People who think digital watches are a \n\treal good idea? That 60 channels of television is 10x better \n\tthan 6 channels of television? \n\n\n\tYou're right. Keep an open mind to the following:\n\n\t1. Taco flavored donuts.\n\t2. Cannibalism. Good way to get that extra protein in the diet.\n\t3. Belief in Yawanga, armadillo god of parking meters.\n", "\n\nWhat \"it may think is right\" may be exactly what the user wants.\nAssuming that your application \"has reason to know better\" is, IMHO,\nanti-social. If I start your application with a -geometry option are\nyou going to ignore that as well?\n\nThere's really no way to force a window manager to do much of anything\nif it's managing your window. You can ask, you can hint, but there's\nno guarantee that you're going to get what you want.\n", "\n\tHmmm, let's see: I could upload some .BMP files (I have around 15\nb/w and color ones), but I'd rather give you the fishing pole instead of the\nfish:Here it goes: \n Begginers guide to the coolest Windows backgrounds:\nStep 1: ftp to cica (ftp.cica.indiana.edu user:anonymous passwd: guest)\ncd to pub/pc/win3/(util?desktop?) and get one of these : wingif14.zip,\npspro??.zip gws?????.zip . They will scale, dither and convert GIFs to BMPs.\nget the index file from the win3 subdir too for future reference...\nStep 2: ftp to wuarchive.wustl.edu or plaza.aarnet.edu.au or archive.orst.edu\nand cd to graphics/gif GET THE INDEX FILE... Now GigaBytes of pictures\nare waiting to become your desktop... \nAdvice: If you have a slow computer (<486DX w/4MB RAM), make your bg b/w\nby selecting b/w dither in any of the abovementioned apps..\nHope it helps...\n\n", "Hi, I just test installed kanjitalk 6.07 on my IIci \nand got a black screen, a way sick looking mac icon, and when hitting the\nprogrammers reset, a tone sequence that I guess is the infamous \"tones of\ndeath.\" \nI was able to reboot off a floppy, removed the japanese system, and\nset up the system folder on the hard drive to get system 7.01 back.\nNow have no overt problems with the mac.\nAny idea what caused the tones? I forget the numbers but 7fff comes to mind.\nIf it is some self diagnostic, why would an older system version catch it,\nand not 7. ?\n(I'll be moving up to 7.1 and worldscript by-and-by)\nThanks in advance,\nHiroki", " > Hi.\n > \n > I use Emacs and I want to customize my keyboard better.\n > When I set up stuff in my .emacs with a keymap and define-keys,\n > I can only access certain of the keys on my X-Terminal's\n > keyboard. I can't get e.g. F10, Home, End, PgUp, PgDn; they all\n > seem to have either the same or no keycode. I have a feeling\n > this can't be fixed in emacs itself, but that I need to do some\n > xmodmap stuff. Can someone help me?\n\nUnfortunately, the key event handling is pretty much hardwired into\nemacs. I ran into this problem a while back; my solution was to\nchange the source code so that all of these special keys generated\ncharacter sequences which basically encoded the keysym and modifier\nstate as escape sequences -- for example, the sequence \"ESC [ 1 B 7\" \nwould indicate that the \"HOME\" key was pressed, with the shift key\ndown. You could also detect standard keys with odd modifiers, such\nas \"shift-Return\".\n\nIf anybody wants these changes, they're welcome to them, but you'll\nhave to have the source available and be comfortable munging with\nit a bit. Basically you have to replace the keypress handling code\nin the source file \"x11term.c\". Maybe if someone at OSF is \ninterested, I can send them the tweaks, but I imagine they've got\nbigger fish to fry (hopefully including the much talked about \nemacs V19!). If there's sufficient interest, I'll post the mods \nsomewhere, although this probably isn't the appropriate group for it.\n\nNotes: \n\n * This special code will only apply if you let emacs create\n its own (X11) window. If you run it in plain old tty mode (which \n includes Xterm windows) then it's business as usual.\n\n * The patches I made were to version 18.58, under Sun OS 4.1.2\n [I also did this a while back under HP-UX]. The patches are\n in a chunk of code between '#if sun ... #endif' but could \n easily be adapted for anything else.\n", "\n\nOh no! Oh no! They've taken over comp.windows.misc and now THEY'RE\nCOMING FOR US!\n\n --berry\n", "Any comments of AMD microprocessors? good?, bad?", "\nThe fee is a suggestion for an individual but licensing is mandatory\nfor commercial, government, and institutional users. I wonder how many\nusers of xv own the system that it runs on.\n\n-- \n\nMichael Salmon\n\n#include\t\n#include\t\n#include\t", "Actually, with several sharware utilities, you cn change both. My fav is\nPlug-In.", "Hello Neo-Geo owners (and non-owners who couldn't resist the title;)),\n\nI was wondering if any of you out there want to trade or sell games. I\nmean, buying them from the stores can get kinda expensive. $184.99 is\na little too much to be spending on each game. But ahh, the quality...\nNow I can get them for about $100, but that's still a lot.\n\nRight now, I have:\n\nCrossed Swords\nMagician Lord\nBaseball Stars 2\nFatal Fury\nNam-1975\n\nI am interested in buying more titles. If any of you have any interesting\ntrade ideas, please let me know.\n\n\nThanks", "Archive-name: graphics/resources-list/part2\nLast-modified: 1993/04/17\n\n\nComputer Graphics Resource Listing : WEEKLY POSTING [ PART 2/3 ]\n===================================================\nLast Change : 17 April 1993\n\n\n14. Plotting packages\n=====================\n\nGnuplot 3.2\n-----------\n It is one of the best 2- and 3-D plotting packages, with\n online help.It's a command-line driven interactive function plotting utility\n for UNIX, MSDOS, Amiga, Archimedes, and VMS platforms (at least!).\n Freely distributed, it supports many terminals, plotters, and printers\n and is easily extensible to include new devices.\n It was posted to comp.sources.misc in version 3.0, plus 2 patches.\n You can practically find it everywhere (use Archie to find a site near you!).\n The comp.graphics.gnuplot newsgroup is devoted to discussion of Gnuplot.\n\nXvgr and Xmgr (ACE/gr)\n-----------------------\n Xmgr is an XY-plotting tool for UNIX workstations using\n X or OpenWindows. There is an XView version called xvgr for\n Suns. Collectively, these 2 tools are known as ACE/gr.\n Compiling xmgr requires the Motif toolkit version 1.1\n and X11R4 - xmgr will not compile under X11R3/Motif 1.0x.\n\n Check at ftp.ccalmr.ogi.edu [129.95.72.34} in\n /CCALMR/pub/acegr/xmgr-2.09.tar.Z (Motif version)\n /CCALMR/pub/acegr/xvgr-2.09.tar.Z (XView version)\n\n Comments, suggestions, bug reports to Paul J Turner\n (if mail fails, try pturner@ese.ogi.edu).\n Due to time constraints, replies will be few and far between.\n\nRobot\n-----\n Release 0.45 : 2-D and limited 3-D. Based on XView 3, written\n in C / Fortran (so you need a Fortran compiler or the f2c translator).\n Mainly tested on Sun4, less on DECstations. Check at\n ftp.astro.psu.edu (128.118.147.28), pub/astrod.\n\nVG plotting library\n-------------------\n This is a library of Fortran callable routines at sunspot.ceee.nist.gov\n [129.6.64.151]\n\nXgobi\n-----\n It's being developed at Bellcore, and its speciality are\n multidimensional data sets analysis and exploration. You can call it\n from the S language also, and it works as an X11 client using the Athena\n widget set (or with an ASCII terminal). It's distributed free of charge\n from STATLIB at CMU.\n To get it via e-mail, send email to statlib@temper.stat.cmu.edu and\n in the body area of the message, put the line\n\n send xgobi from general\n\n If you want to pick it via ftp, connect to lib.stat.cmu.edu. Log in as\n \"statlib\" and use your e-mail address as your password. Then type\n\n cd general\n mget xgobi.*\n\n Warning: It's about 2 MB sources + large Postscript manual. Read the\n relevant README to decide whether you need it or not.\n\nPGPLOT\n------\n Runs on VAX/VMS and supposedly on UNIX. It's a set of fortran routines freely\n available (though copyrighted and requiring a nominal fee of $50 or so)\n that includes contour plots and support for various devices, including ps.\n Contact tjp@deimos.caltech.edu\n\nGGRAPH\n------\n Host shorty.cs.wisc.edu [128.105.2.8] : /pub/ggraph.tar.Z\n Unknown more details.\n\nepiGRAPH\n--------\n For PCs. Call dvj@lab2.phys.lgu.spb.su (Vladimir J. Dmitriev) for details.\n You can get the program demo or (and) play version, if sent 10 $ to\n\n 1251 Budapest posta fiok 60\n Hungary\n ph/fax 1753696 Budapest\n ph 2017760\n\nMultiplot XLN\n-------------\n For Amigas, shareware ($30 USD, #20 UK or $40 Aust.). Advanced 2D package\n that has a big list of features. Contact:\n\n Dr. Alan Baxter ,\n Cambridge University\n Department of Pathology,\n Tennis Court Road,\n Cambridge CB2 1QP, UK\n\n\n+Athena Plotter Widget set\n+-------------------------\n+ \n+ This version V6.0 is based on Gregory Bond's version V5-beta. Added\n+ some stuff for scientific graphs, i.e. log axes, free scalable axes,\n+ XY-lineplots and some more, and re-added plotter callbacks from V4, e.g.\n+ to request the current pointer position, or to cut off a rectangle from the\n+ plotting area for zooming-in. Version V6.0 has a log of bugs fixed and a\n+ log of improvements against V6-beta. Additionally I did some other\n+ changes/extensions, besides \n+ \n+ - Origin and frame lines for axes.\n+ - Subgrid lines on subtic positions.\n+ - Line plots in different line types (lines, points, lines+points,\n+ impulses, lines+impulses, steps, bars), line styles (solid, dotted,\n+ dashed, dot-dashed) and marker types for data points.\n+ - Legend at the right or left hand side of the plot.\n+ - Optional drawing to a pixmap instead of a window.\n+ - Layout callback for aligning axis positions when using\n+ multiple plotters in one application.\n+ \n+ Available at export.lcs.mit.edu, directory contrib/plotter\n+\n+SciPlot\n+-------\n+ SciPlot is a scientific 2D plotting and manipulation program. \n+ For the NeXT (requires NeXTStep 3.0), and it's shareware.\n+\n+ Features:\n+ ASCII import and export; EPS export; copy, cut, paste with data buffer;\n+ free number of data points, data buffer, and document window;\n+ selective open and save ; plotting in many styles; automatic legend;\n+ subviews; linear and logarithmic axes; two different axes; text and graphic;\n+ color support; zoom; normalizing and moving; axis conversions;\n+ free hand data manipulations (cut, edit, move, etc.); data editor; sorting\n+ of data; absolute,relative, and free defined error bars;\n+ calculating with buffers (+, -, *, / ); background subtractions\n+ (linear,shirley,tougaard, bezier); integration and relative integration;\n+ fitting of one or more free defined functions; linear regression;\n+ calculations (+, -, *, /, sin, cos, log, etc.); function generator;\n+ spline interpolation; least square smooth and FFT smooth; differentiation;\n+ FFT; ESCA calculations and database; .. and something more \n+\n+ You can find it on:\n+ ftp.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.7] : /pub/NeXT/science/SciPlot3.1.tar.Z\n+\n+ Author:\n+ Michael Wesemann\n+ Scillerstr. 73,1000 Berlin 12, Germany \n+ mike@fiasko.rz-berlin.mpg.de\n+\n+PLPLOT\n+------\n+ PLPLOT is a scientific plotting package for many systems, small (micro)\n+ and large (super) alike. Despite its small size and quickness,\n+ it has enough power to satisfy most users, including:\n+ standard x-y plots, semilog plots, log-log plots, contour plots, 3D plots,\n+ mesh plots, bar charts and pie charts. Multiple graphs (of the same or\n+ different sizes) may be placed on a single page with multiple lines in each\n+ graph. Different line styles, widths and colors are supported. A virtually\n+ infinite number of distinct area fill patterns may be used. There are\n+ almost 1000 characters in the extended character set. This includes four\n+ different fonts, the Greek alphabet and a host of mathematical, musical, and\n+ other symbols. The fonts can be scaled to any size for various effects.\n+ Many different output device drivers are available (system dependent),\n+ including a portable metafile format and renderer.\n+ \n+ Freely available (but copyrighted) via anonymous FTP on\n+ hagar.ph.utexas.edu, directory pub/plplot\n+ \n+ At present (v. 4.13), PLPLOT is known to work on the following systems:\n+ \n+ Unix: SunOS, A/IX, HP-UX, Unicos, DG/UX, Ultrix\n+ Other platforms: VMS, Amiga/Exec, MS-DOS, OS/2, NeXT\n+ \n+ Authors: Many. The main supporters are:\n+ \n+ Maurice LeBrun : PLPLOT kernel and the metafile,\n+ xterm, xwindow, tektronix, and Amiga drivers.\n+ Geoff Furnish : MS-DOS and OS/2 drivers\n+ Tony Richardson : PLPLOT on the NeXT\n+\n+SuperMongo\n+----------\n+ 2-D plotting package at CMU, filename ~re00/tmp/SM.2.1.0.tar.Z\n+ (probably under the ftp.cmu.edu or andrew.cmu.edu machines?)\n+\n+GLE\n+---\n+ GLE is a high quality graphics package for scientists. It runs on a\n+ variety of platforms (PCs, VAXes, and Unix) with drivers for XWindows,\n+ REGIS, TEK4010, PC graphics cards, VT100s, HP plotters, Postscript\n+ printers, Epson-compatible printers and Laserjet/Paintjet printers. It\n+ provides LaTEX quality fonts, as well as full support for Postscript\n+ fonts. The graphing module provides full control over all features of\n+ graphs. The graphics primitives include user-defined subroutines for\n+ complex pictures and diagrams.\n+\n+ Accompanying utilities include Surface (for hidden line surface\n+ plotting), Contour (for contour plots), Manip (for manipulation of\n+ columnar data files), and Fitls (for fitting arbitrary equations to\n+ data).\n+\n+ Mailing list: GLEList. Send a message to\n+\n+ listserver@tbone.biol.scarolina.edu, with a message boyd containing\n+\n+ sub glelist \"Your Name\"\n+ \n+ maintainer: Dean Pentcheff \n\n==========================================================================\n\n15. Image analysis software - Image processing and display\n==========================================================\n\nPC and Mac-based tools (multi-platform software)\n======================\n\nIMDISP\n------\n IMDISP Written at JPL and other NASA sites. Can do simple display,\n enhancing, smoothing and so on. Works with the FITS and VICAR/PDS\n data formats of NASA. Can read TIFF images, if you know their dimensions\n [PC and Macs]\n\nLabVIEW 2\n---------\n LabVIEW is used as a framework for image processing tools. It provides a\n graphical programming environment using block diagram sketch is the\n \"program\" with graphical elements representing the programming elements.\n Hundreds of functions are already available and are connected using a\n wiring tool to create the block diagram (program). Functions that the\n block diagrams represent include digital signal processing and\n filtering, numerical analysis, statistics, etc. The tool allows any\n Virtual Instrument (VI, a software file that looks and acts like a real\n laboratory instrument) to be used as a part of any other virtual\n instrument.\n\n National Instruments markets plug-in digital signal processing (DSP)\n boards for Macintoshs and PC compatables that allow real-time\n acquisition and analysis at a personal computer. New software tools for\n DSP are allowing engineers to harness the power of this technology. The\n tools range from low-level debugging software to high-level block\n diagram development software. There are three levels of DSP programming\n associated with the NB-DSP2300 board and LabVIEW:\n Use of the NB-DSP2300 Analysis Library: FFTs, power spectra, filters\n routines callable from THINK C and Macintosh Programers Workshop (MPW) C\n that execute on the NB-DSP2300 board. There is an analysis Virtual\n Interface Library of ready-to-use VIs optimized for the NB-DSP2300.\n\n Use of the National Instruments Developers Toolkit that includes an\n optimizing C compiler, an assembler and a linker for low-level\n programming of the DSP hardware. This approach offers the highest level\n of performance but is the must difficult in terms of ease of use.\n\n Use of the National Instruments Interface Kit software package which has\n utility functions for memory management data communications and\n downloading code to the NB-DSP2300 board. (This is the easiest route for\n the development of custom code.)\n\nUltimage Concept VI\n-------------------\n Concept VI by Graftek-France is a family of image processing Virtual\n Instruments (VIs) that give LabVIEW 2 (described above) users high-end\n tools for designing, integrating and monitoring imaging control systems.\n A VI is a software file that looks and acts like a real laboratory\n instrument. Typical applications for Concept VI include thermography,\n surveillance, machine vision, production testing, biomedical imaging,\n electronic microscopy and remote sensing.\n\n Ultimage Concept VI addresses applications which require further\n qualitative and quantitative analysis. It includes a complete set of\n functions for image enhancement, histogram equalization, spatial and\n frequency filtering, isolation of features, thresholding, mathematical\n morphology analysis, density measurement, object counting, sizing and\n characterization.\n\n The program loads images with a minimum resolution of 64 by 64, a pixel\n depth of 8, 16, or 32 bits, and one image plane. Standard input and\n output formats include PICT, TIFF, SATIE, and AIPD. Other formats can\n be imported.\n\n Image enhancement features include lookup table transformations, spatial\n linear and non-linear filters, frequency filtering, arithmetic and logic\n operations, and geometric transformations, among others. Morphological\n transformations include erosion, dilation, opening, closing, hole\n removal, object separation, and extraction of skeletons, among others.\n Quantitative analysis provides for objects' detection, measurement, and\n morphological distribution. Measures include area, perimeter, center of\n gravity, moment of inertia, orientation, length of relevant chords, and\n shape factors and equivalence. Measures are saved in ASCII format. The\n program also provides for macro scripting and integration of custom\n modules.\n\n A 3-D view command plots a perspective data graph where image intensity\n is depicted as mountains or valleys in the plot. The histogram tool can\n be plotted with either a linear or logarithmic scale. The twenty-eight\n arithmetic and logical operations provide for: masking and averaging\n sections of images, noise removal, making comparisons, etc. There are\n 13 spatial filters that alter pixel intensities based on local\n intensity. These include high-pass filters for contrast and outlines.\n The frequency data resulting from FFT analysis can be displayed as\n either the (real , imaginary ) components or the (phase, magnitude)\n data. The morphological transformations are useful for data sharpening\n and defining objects or for removing artifacts.\n\n The transformations include: thresholding, eroding, dilating and even\n hole filling.\n\n The program's quantitative analysis measurements include: area,\n perimeter, center of mass, object counts, and angle between points.\n\n GTFS, Inc. 2455 Bennett Valley Road #100C Santa Rosa, CA 95494\n 707-579-1733\n\nIPLab Spectrum\n--------------\n IPLAB Spectrum supports image processing and analysis but lacks the\n morphology and quantitative analysis features provided by\n Graftek-FranceUs Ultimage Concept VI. Using scripting tools, the user\n tells the system the operations to be performed. The problem is that far\n too many basic operations require manual intervention. The tool\n supports: FFTs, 16 arithmetic operations for pixel alteration, and a\n movie command for cycling through windows.\n\n\nMacintosh-based tools\n=====================\n\nNCSA Image, NCSA PalEdit and more\n---------------------------------\n NCSA provides a whole suite of public-domain visualization tools for the\n Macintosh, primarily aimed at researchers wanting to visualize results\n from numerical modelling calculations. These applications,\n documentation, and source code are available for anonymous ftp from\n ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu. Commercial versions of the NCSA programs have been\n developed by Spyglass.\n\n Spyglass, Inc. 701 Devonshire Drive Champaign, IL 61820 (217) 355-6000\n fax: 217 355 8925\n\nNIH IMAGE\n---------\n Available at alw.nih.gov (128.231.128.7) or (preferably)\n zippy.nimh.nih.gov [128.231.98.32], directory:/pub/image.\n It has painting and image manipulation tools, a macro language,\n tools for measuring areas, distances and angles, and for counting\n things. Using a frame grabber card, it can record sequences of\n images to be played back as a movie. It can invoke user-defined\n convolution matrix filters, such as Gaussian. It can import raw\n data in tab-delimited ASCII, or as 1 or 2-byte quantities. It also\n does histograms and even 3-D plots. It is limited to 8-bits/pixel,\n though the 8 bits map into a color lookup table. It runs on any Mac\n that has a 256-color screen and a FPU (or get the NonFPU version\n from zippy.nimh.nih.gov)\n\nPhotoMac\n--------\n Data Translation, Inc. 100 Locke Dr. Marlboro, MA 01752 508-481-3700\n\nPhotoPress\n----------\n Blue Solutions 3039 Marigold Place Thousand Oaks, CA 91360 805-492-9973\n\nPixelTools and TCL-Image\n------------------------\n \"Complete family of PixelTools (hardware accelerator and applications\n software) for scientific image processing and analysis. Video-rate\n capture, display, processing, and analysis of high-resolution\n monochromatic and color images. Includes C source code.\"\n\nTCL-Image:\n \"Software package for scientific, quantitative image processing and\n analysis. It provides a complete language for the capture, enhancement,\n and extraction of quantitative information from gray-scale images.\n TCL_Image has over 200 functions for image processing, and contains the\n other elements needed in a full programming language for algorithm\n development -- variables and control structures. It is easily\n extensible through \"script\" (or indirect command) files. These script\n files are simply text files that contain TCL-Image commands. They are\n executed as normal commands and include the ability to pass parameters.\n The direct capture of video images is supported via popular frame\n grabber boards. TCL-Image comes with the I-View utility that provides\n conversion between common image file types, such as PICT2 and TIFF.\"\n\n Perceptics 725 Pellissippi Parkway Knoxville, TN 37933 615-966-9200\n\nSatellite Image Workshop\n------------------------\n It comes with a number of satellite pictures (raw data) and does all\n sorts of image enhancing on it. You'll need at least a Mac II with co-\n processor; a 256 color display and a large harddisk. The program doesn't\n run under system 7.x.ATE1 V1\n\n In the documentation the contact address is given as: Liz Smith, Jet\n Propulsion Laboratory, MS 300-323, 4800 Oak Grove Dr,.Pasadena, CA 91109\n (818) 354-6980\n\nVisualization Workbench\n-----------------------\n \"An electronic imaging software system that performs interactive image\n analysis and scientific 2D and 3D plotting.\"\n\n Paragon Imagine 171 Lincoln St. Lowell, MA 01852 508-441-2112\n\nAdobe Photoshop\n---------------\n\n The tool supports Rtrue colorS with 24-bit images or 256 levels of grey\n scale. Once an image has been imported it can be Rre-touchedS with\n various editing tools typical of those used in Macintosh-based RpaintS\n applications. These include an eraser, pencil, brush and air brush.\n Advanced RpasteS tools that control the interaction between a pasted\n selection and the receiving site have also been incorporated. For\n example, all red pixels in a selection can easily be preventing from\n being pasted. Photoshop has transparencies ranging from 0 to 100%,\n allowing you to create ghost overlays. RPhoto-editingS tools include\n control of the brightness and contrast, color balancing, hue/saturation\n modification and spectrum equalization. Images can be subjected to\n various signal processing algorithms to smooth or sharpen the image,\n blur edges, or locate edges. Image scaling is also supported.\n\n For storage savings, the images can be compressed using standard\n algorithms, including externally supplied compression such as JPEG,\n availlable from Storm Technologies. The latest version of Adobe\n Photoshop supports the import of numerous image formats including: EPSF,\n EPSF, TIFF, PICT resource, Amiga IFF/ILBM, CompuServe GIF, MacPaint,\n PIXAR, PixelPaint, Scitex CT, TGA and ThunderScan..\n\n Adobe Systems, Inc. 1585 Charlestown Road PO Box 7900 Mountain View, CA\n 94039-7900 415-961-4400\n\nColorStudio and ImageStudio\n---------------------------\n ColorStudio is an image-editing and paint package from Letraset that has\n more features than Adobe Photoshop but is decidedly more complex and\n therefore more difficult to use. Several steps are often required to\n accomplish that which can be done in a single step using Photoshop. The\n application requires a great deal of available disk space as one can\n easily end up with images in the 30 MB range. The program provides a\n variety of powerful selection tools including the \"auto selection tool\"\n which lets the user choose image areas on the basis of color, close\n hues, color range and mask.\n\nImageStudio: Don't know...\n\n Letraset USA 40 Eisenhower Drive Paramus, NJ 07653 201-845-6100\n\nDapple Systems\n--------------\n \"High resolution image analysis software provides processing tools to\n work with multiple images, enhance and edit, and measure a variety of\n global or feature parameters, and interpret the data.\"\n\n Dapple Systems, 355 W. Olive Ave, #100 Sunnyvale, CA 94086 408-733-3283\n\nDigital Darkroom\n----------------\n The latest release of Digital Darkroom has five new selection and\n editing tools for enhancing images. One such feature allows the user to\n select part of an image simply by \"painting\" it. A new polyline\n selection tool creates a selection tool for single pixel wide\n selections. A brush lets the operator \"paint\" with a selected portion\n of the image. Note that this is not a true color image enhancement tool.\n This tool should be used when the user intends to operate in grey-scale\n images only. It should be noted that Digital Darkroom is not as\n powerful as either Adobe Photoshop or ColorStudio.\n\n Silicon Beach Software 9770 Carroll Ctr. Rd., Suite J San Diego, CA\n 92126 619-695-6956\n\nDimple\n------\n It is compatible with system 6.05 and system 7.0 , requires Mac LC or\n II series with 256 colours, with a recommended min of 6Mb of ram. It has\n the capability of reading Erdas files. Functions include; image\n enhancement, 3D and contour plots, image statistics, supervised and\n unsupervised classification, PCA and other image transformations. There\n is also a means (Image Operation Language or IOL) by which you can write\n your own transformations. There is no image rectification, however\n Dimple is compatable with MAPII. The latest version is 1.4 and it is in\n the beta stage of testing. Dimple was initially developed as a teaching\n tool and it is very good for this purpose.\"\n\n \"Dimple runs on a colour Macintosh. It is a product still in its\n development phase.. i.e. it doesn't have all the inbuilt features of\n other packages, but is coming along nicely. It has its own inbuilt\n language for writing \"programs\" for processing an image, defining\n convolution filters etc. Dimple is a full mac application with pull down\n menus etc... It is unprotected software.\"\n\n Process Software Solutions, PO Box 2110, Wollongong, New South Wales,\n Australia. 2500. Phone 61 42 261757 Fax 61 42 264190.\n\nEnhance\n-------\n Enhance has a RrulerS tool that supports measurements and additionally\n provides angle data. The tool has over 80 mathematical filter\n variations: \"Laplacian, medium noise filter\", etc. Files can be saved\n as either TIFF, PICT, EPSF or text (however EPSF files can't be imported).\n\n MicroFrontier 7650 Hickman Road Des Moines, IA 50322 515-270-8109\n\nImage Analyst\n-------------\n An image processing product for users who need to extract quantitative\n data from video images. Image Analyst lets users configure\n sophisticated image processing and measurement routines without the\n necessity of knowing a programming language. It is designed for such\n tasks at computing number and size of cells in images projected by video\n cameras attached to microscopes, or enhancing and measuring distances in\n radiographs.\n\n Image Analyst provides users with an array of field-proven video\n analysis techniques that enable them to easily assemble a sequence of\n instructions to enhance feature appearance; count objects; determine\n density, shape, size, position, or movement; perform object feature\n extraction; and conduct textural analysis automatically. Image Analyst\n works with either a framegrabber board and any standard video camera, or\n a disk-stored image.\n\n Within minutes, without the need for programming, the Image Analyst user\n can set up a process to identify and analyze any element of a image.\n Measurements and statistics can be automatically or semi-automatically\n generated from TIFF or PICT files or from captured video tape images.\n Image Analyst recognizes items in images based on their size, shape and\n position. The tool provides direct support for the Data Translation and\n Scion frame grabbers. A menu command allows for image capture from a VCR\n video camera or other NTSC or PAL devices.\n\n There are 2 types of files, the image itself and the related Sequence\n file that holds the processing, measurements and analysis that the user\n defines. Automated sequences are set up in Regions Of Interest (ROI)\n represented by movable, sizable boxes atop the image. Inside a ROI, the\n program can find the distance between two edges, the area of a shape,\n the thickness of a wall, etc. Image Analyst finds the center, edge and\n other positions automatically. The application also provides tools so\n that the user can work interactively to find the edge of object. It also\n supports histograms and a color look-up table (CLUT) tool.\n\n Automatix, Inc. 775 Middlesex Turnpike Billerica, MA 01821 508-667-7900\n\nIPLab\n-----\n Signal Analytics Corp. 374 Maple Ave. E Vienna, VA 22180 703-281-3277\n FAX 703-281-2509\n\n \"Menu-driven image processing software that supports 24-bit color or\n pseudocolor/grayscale image display and manipulation.\"\n\nMAP II\n------\n Among the Mac GIS systems, MAP II distributed by John Wiley has\n integrated image analysis.\n\nIMAGE\n-----\n from Stanford : Try anonymous ftp from sumex-aim.stanford.edu\n It has pd source for image v2, and ready to run code for a mac under\n image v3.\n\n\n\nWindows/DOS PC-based tools\n==========================\n\nCCD\n---\n Richard Berry's CCD imaging book for Willamon-Bell contains (optional?)\n disks with image manipulating software. Source code is included.\n\nERDAS\n-----\n \"ERDAS will do all of the things you want: rectification,\n classification, transformations (canned & user-defined), overlays,\n filters, contrast enhancement, etc. ... I was using it on my thesis &\n then changed the topic a bit & that work became secondary.\"\n\n ERDAS, Inc. 2801 Buford Highway Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30329 404-248-9000\n FAX 404-248-9400\n\nRSVGA\n-----\n \"I have been getting up to speed on a program called RSVGA available from\n Eidetic Digital Image Ltd. in British Columbia. Its for IBM PC's or\n clones, cheap (about $400) and does all the stuff Erdas does but is not\n as fast or as powerful, though I have had only limited experience with\n Erdas. I have used RSVGA with 6 of 7 Landsat bands and it is a good\n starter program except for the obtuse manual\"\n\nIMAGINE-32\n----------\n It's a 32 bit package [I suppose for PCs] called \"Imagine32\"\n or \"Image32\" The program does a modest amount of image processing --add,\n subtract, multiply, divide, display, and plot an x or y cut across the image.\n It can also display a number of images simultaneously.\n The company is CompuScope, in Santa Barbara, CA. \n\nPC Vista\n--------\n It was announced in the 1989 August edition of PASP. It is known to\n be available from Mike Richmond, whose email addresses have been\n\n\trichmond@bllac.berkeley.edu\n\trichmond@bkyast.berkeley.edu\n\n and his s-mail address is:\n\n Michael Richmond,Astronomy Department, Campbell Hall, Berkeley, CA 94720\n\n The latest version of PC-Vista, version 1.7, includes not only the source\n code and help files, but also a complete set of executable programs and\n a number of sample FITS images. If you do wish to use the source code,\n you will need Microsoft C, version 5.0 or later; other compilers may work,\n but will require substantial modifications.\n\n To receive the documentation and nine double-density (360K) floppies\n (or three quad-density 3-1/2 inch floppies (1.44M) with everything on them,\n just send a request for PC-Vista, together with your name and a US-Mail\n address, to \n\n\tOffice of Technology Licensing\n\t2150 Shattuck Ave., Suite 510\n\tBerkeley, Ca. 94704\n\n Include a check (Traveller's Checks are fine) or purchase order for $150.00\n in U.S. dollars, if your address is inside the continental U.S., or $165.00\n otherwise, made out to Regents of the University of California\n to cover duplication and mailing costs.\n\n\nSOFTWARE TOOLS\n--------------\n It's a set of software \"tools\" put out by Canyon State\n Systems and Software. They are not free, but rather cheap at about $30 I\n heard. It will handle most all of the formats used by frame grabber\n software. \n\nMIRAGE\n------\n It's image processing software written by Jim Gunn at the\n Astrophysics Dept at Princeton. It will run on a PC among other platforms.\n It is a Forth based system - i.e. a Forth language with many image\n processing displaying functions built in. \n\nDATA TRANSLATION SOURCE BOOK\n----------------------------\n The Data Translation company in Massachusetts publishes a free book\n containing vendors of data analysis hardware and software which is\n compatible with Data Translation and other frame grabbers.\n Surely you can find much more PC-related stuff in it.\n\nMAXEN386\n--------\n A couple of Canadians have written a program named MAXEN386 which does\n maximum entropy image deconvolution. Their company is named Digital\n Signal Processing Software, or something like that, and the software is\n mentioned in an article in Astronomy Magazine, either Jan or Feb 92\n (an article on CCD's vs film). \n\nJANDEL SCIENTIFIC (JAVA)\n------------------------\n Another software package (JAVA) is put out by Jandel Scientific. \n Jandel Scientific, 65 Koch Road, Corte Madera, CA 94925, (415) 924-8640,\n (800) 874-1888.\n\nMicrobrian\n----------\n Runs on an MS dos platform and uses a 32 bit graphics card\n (Vista), or an about to be released version will support a number of\n super VGA cards. Its a full blown remote sensed data processing\n system.. It is menu driven (character based screen), but is does not use\n a windowed user interface. Its is hardware protected with a dongle.\n Mbrian = micro Barrier reef Image Anaysis System. It was developed by\n CSIRO (Commonwealth Scientific & Industrial Organization) and is\n marketed/ supported by:\n\n MPA Australia (51 Lusher Road, Croydon, Victoria\n tel + 61 3 724 4488 fax +61 3 724 4455)\n\n There are educational and commercial prices, but be prepared to set\n aside $A10k for the first educational licence. Subsequent ones come\n cheaper (they need to!) It has installed sites worldwide. It is widely\n used at ANU.\n\nMicroImage\n----------\n The remote sensing lab here at Dartmouth currently uses Terra-Mar's\n MicroImage, on 486 PCs with some fancy display hardware.\n\n Terra-Mar Resource Information Services, Inc.\n\n 1937 Landings Drive Mountain View, CA 94043 415-964-6900 FAX\n 415-964-5430\n\nUnix-based tools\n================\n\nIRAF (Image Reduction and Analysis Facility)\n--------------------------------------------\n Developed in the National Optical Astronomy Observatory, Kitt Peak AZ\n It is free, you can ftp it from tucana.noao.edu [140.252.1.1]\n and complement it with STSDAS from stsci.edu [130.167.1.2].\n Email to iraf@noao.edu for more details.\n Apparently this is one of the _de facto_ standards in the astronomical\n image community. They issue a newsletter also.\n They seem to support very well their users. Works with VMS also last\n I heard, and practically has its own shell on top of the VMS/Unix shells.\n\n It's suggested that you get a copy of saoimage for display under X windows.\n Very flexible/extendable -- tons (literally 3 linear feet) of\n documentation for the general user, skilled user, and programmer.\n\nALV\n---\n A Sun-specific image toolkit. Version 2.0.6 posted to\n comp.sources.sun on 11dec89. Also available via email to\n alv-users-request@cs.bris.ac.uk.\n\nAIPS\n----\n Astronomical Image Processing System. Contact: aipsmail@nrao.edu\n (also see the UseNet Newsgroups alt.sci.astro.aips and sci.astro.fits)\n Built by NRAO (National Radio Astronomy Observatory, HQ in Charlottesville,\n VA, sites in NM, AZ, WV). Software distributed by 9-track, Exabyte, DAT,\n or (non-anonymous) internet ftp. Documentation (PostScript mostly)\n available via anonymous ftp to baboon.cv.nrao.edu (192.33.115.103),\n directory pub/aips and pub/aips/TEXT/PUBL. Installation requires building\n the system and thus a Fortran and C compiler.\n This package can read and write FITS data (see sci.astro.fits), and is\n primarily for reduction, analysis, and image enhancement of Radio Astronomy\n data from radio telescopes, particularly the Very Large Array (VLA), a\n synthesis instrument. It consists of almost 300 programs that do everything\n from copying data to sophisticated deconvolution, e.g. via maximum entropy.\n There is an X11-based Image tool (XAS) and a tek-compatible xterm-based\n graphics tool built into AIPS. The XAS tool is modelled after the hardware\n functionality of the International Imaging Systems model 70 display unit and\n can do image arithmetic, etc.\n The code is mostly Fortran 77 with some system C language modules, and is\n available for Suns, IBM RS/6000, Dec/Ultrix, Convex, Cray (Unicos), and\n Alliant with support planned for HP-9000/7xx, Solaris 2.1, and maybe SGI.\n There is currently a project - \"AIPS++\" - underway to rewrite the\n algorithmic functionality of AIPS in a modern setting, using C++ and an\n object oriented approach. Whereas AIPS is proprietary code (licensed for\n free to non-profit institutions) owner by NRAO and the NSF, AIPS++ will be\n in the public domain at some level, as it is an international effort with\n contributions from the US, Canada, England, the Netherlands, India, and\n Australia to name a few. \n\nLABOimage\n---------\n (version 4.0 is out for X11) It's written in C, and currently\n runs on Sun 3/xxx, Sun 4/xxx (OS3.5, 4.0 and 4.0.3) under SunView.\n The expert system for image segmentation is written in Allegro Common Lisp.\n It was used on the following domains: computer science (image analysis), \n medicine, biology, physics. It is distributed free of charge (source code).\n Available via anonymous FTP at ftp.ads.com (128.229.30.16), in\n pub/VISION-LIST-ARCHIVE/SHAREWARE/LaboImage_*\n\n Contact: Prof. Thierry Pun, Computer Vision Group Computing Science Center,\n U-Geneva 12, rue du Lac, CH-1207 Geneva SWITZERLAND\n Phone : +41(22) 787 65 82; fax: +41(22) 735 39 05\n E-mail: pun@cui.unige.ch or pun@cgeuge51.bitnet\n\n\nFigaro\n------\n It was originally made for VMS, and can be obtained from\n Keith Shortridge in Australia (ks@aaoepp.aao.gov.au)\n and for Unix from Sam Southard at Caltech (sns@deimos.caltech.edu).\n It's about 110Mbytes on a Sun.\n\nKHOROS\n------\n Moved to the Scientific Visualization category below\n\nVista\n-----\n The \"real thing\" is available via anonymous ftp from lowell.edu. Email to\n vista@lowell.edu for more details. Total size less than 20Mbytes.\n\nDISIMP\n------\n (Device Independent Software for Image Processing) is a powerful\n system providing both user friendliness and high functionality in\n interactive times.\n\n Feature Description\n\n DISIMP incorporates a rich library of image processing utilities and\n spatial data options. All functions can be easily accessed via the\n DISIMP executive. This menu is modular in design and groups image\n processes by their function. Such a logical structure means that\n complicated processes are simply a progression through a series of\n modules.\n\n Processes include image rectification, classification (unsupervised and\n supervised), intensity transformations, three dimensional display and\n Principal Component Analysis. DISIMP also supports the more simple and\n effective enhancement techniques of filtering, band subtraction and\n ratioing.\n\n Host Configuration Requirements\n\n Running on UNIX workstations, DISIMP is capable of processing the more\n computational intensive techniques in interactive processing times.\n DISIMP is available in both Runtime and Programmer's environments. Using\n the Programmers environment, utilities can be developed for specific\n applications programs.\n\n Graphics are governed by an icon-based Display Panel which allows quick\n enhancments of a displayed image. Manipulations of Look Up Tables,\n colour stretches, changes to histograms, zooming and panning can be\n interactively driven through this control.\n\n A range of geographic projections enables DISIMP to integrate data of\n image, graphic and textual types. Images can be rectified by a number of\n coordinate systems, providing the true geographic knowledge essential\n for ground truthing. Overlays of grids, text and vector data can be\n added to further enhance referenced imagery.\n\n The system is a flexible package allowing users of various skill levels\n to determine their own working environment, including the amount of help\n required. DISIMP comes fully configured with no optional extras. The\n purchase price includes all functionality required for professional\n processing of remote sensed data.\n\n For further information, please contact:\n\n The Business Manager, CLOUGH Engineering Group Systems Division, 627\n Chapel Street, South Yarra, Australia 3141. Telephone: +61 3 825 5555\n Fax: +61 3 826 6463\n\nGlobal Imaging Software\n-----------------------\n \"We use Global Imaging Software to process AVHRR data, from the dish to\n the final display. Select a chunk of five band data from a pass,\n automatic navigation, calibrate it to Albedo and Temp, convert that to\n byte, register it to predesigned window, all relatively automatically\n and carefree.\n\n It has no classification routines to speak of, but it isn't that\n difficult to write your own with their programmer's module.\n\n Very small operation: one designs, one codes, one sells. Been around for\n a number of years, sold to Weather Service and Navy. Runs on HP9000\n with HP-UX. Supports 24-bit display\"\n\nHIPS\n----\n(Human Information Processing Laboratory's Image Processing System)\n\n Michael Landy co-wrote and sell a general-purpose package for image\n processing which has been used for basically all the usual image\n processing applications (robotics, medical, satellite, engineering, oil\n exploration, etc.). It is called HIPS, and deals with sequences of\n multiband images in the same way it deals with single images. It has\n been growing since we first wrote it, both by additions from us as well\n as a huge user-contributed library.\n\n Feature description\n\n HIPS is a set of image processing modules which together provide\n a powerful suite of tools for those interested in research,\n system development and teaching. It handles sequences of images\n (movies) in precisely the same manner as single frames.\n\n Programs and subroutines have been developed for simple image\n transformations, filtering, convolution, Fourier and other transform\n processing, edge detection and line drawing manipulation, digital\n image compression and transmission methods, noise generation, and image\n statistics computation. Over 150 such image transformation programs\n have been developed. As a result, almost any image processing task\n can be performed quickly and conveniently. Additionally, HIPS allows\n users to easily integrate their own custom routines. New users\n become effective using HIPS on their first day.\n\n HIPS features images that are self-documenting. Each image stored in\n the system contains a history of the transformations that have been\n applied to that image. HIPS includes a small set of subroutines\n which primarily deals with a standardized image sequence header, and\n a large library of image transformation tools in the form of UNIX\n ``filters''. It comes complete with source code, on-line manual\n pages, and on-line documentation.\n\n Host Configuration Requirements\n\n Originally developed at New York University, HIPS now represents\n one of the most extensive and flexible vision and image processing\n environments currently available. It runs under the UNIX operating\n system. It is modular and flexible, provides automatic documentation\n of its actions, and is almost entirely independent of special equipment.\n HIPS is now in use on a variety of computers including Vax and\n Microvax, Sun, Apollo, Masscomp, NCR Tower, Iris, IBM AT, etc.\n For image display and input, drivers are supplied for the Grinnell and\n Adage (Ikonas) image processors, and the Sun-2, Sun-3, Sun- 4, and\n Sun-386i consoles. We also supply user-contributed drivers for a\n number of other framestores and windowing packages (Sun gfx, Sun\n console, Matrox VIP-1024, ITI IP-512, Lexidata, Macintosh II, X\n windowing system, and Iris). The Hipsaddon package includes an\n interface for the CRS-4000. It is a simple matter to interface HIPS\n with other frame- stores, and we can put interested users in touch with\n users who have interfaced HIPS with the Arlunya and Datacube Max-\n Video. HIPS can be easily adapted for other image display devices\n because 98% of HIPS is machine independent.\n\n Availability\n\n HIPS has proven itself a highly flexible system, both as an\n interactive research tool, and for more production- oriented tasks. It\n is both easy to use, and quickly adapted and extended to new uses. HIPS\n is supplied on magnetic tape in UNIX tar format (either reel- to-reel or\n Sun cartridge), and comes with source code, libraries, a library of\n convolu- tion masks, and on-line documentation and manual pages.\n\n Michael Landy SharpImage Software P.O. Box 373, Prince Street Station\n New York, NY 10012-0007 Voice: (212) 998-7857 Fax: (212) 995-4011\n msl@cns.nyu.edu\n\n\nMIRA\n----\n[ Please DON'T confuse that with the Thalmanns animation system from\n Montreal. These are altogether different beasts! - nfotis ]\n\n MIRA stands for Microcomputer Image Reduction and Analysis. MIRA gives\n workstation level performance on 386/486 DOS computers using SVGA cards in\n 256 color modes up to 1024x768. MIRA contains a very handsome/functional\n GUI which is mouse and keystroke operated. MIRA reads/writes TIFF and FITS\n formats, native formats of a number of CCD cameras, and uncompressed binary\n images in byte, short integer, and 4-byte real pixel format in 1- or 2-\n dimensions. The result of an image processing operation can be short integer\n or real pixels, or the same as that of the input image. MIRA does the\n operation using short or floating point arithmetic to maintain the precision\n and accuracy of the pixel format. Over 100 functions are hand-coded in\n assembly language for maximum speed on the Intel hardware. The entire\n graphical interface is also written in assembly language to maximize\n the speed of windowing operations. Windows for 2-d image and 1-d image/data\n display and analysis have dedicated cursors which read position and value\n value in real time as you move the mouse. There are also smooth, real time\n contrast and brightness stretch and panning of a magnified portion of\n the displayed image(s), all operated by the mouse. A wide selection of\n grayscale, pseudocolor, and random palettes is provided, and other \n palettes can be generated.\n\n\nSupported functions include such niceties as the following:\n\no image & image: + - / * interpolation\no image & constant: + - / *\no unary operations: abs value, polynomial of pixel value, chs, 1/x, log,\n byteswap, clip values at upper/lower limits, short->real or real->short.\no combine images by mean, median, mode, or sum of pixel values, with or\n without autoscaling to mean, median, or mode of an image section.\no convolutions/filters: Laplacian, Sobel edge operator, directional gradient,\n line, Gaussian, elliptical and rectangular equal weight filters, unsharp\n masking, median filters, user defined filter kernel. Ellipse, rectangle,\n line, gradient, Gaussian, and user defined filters can be rotated to\n any specified angle.\no CCD data reduction: flat fielding, dark subtraction, column over/underscan\n bias removal, remove bad pixels and column defects, normalize to\n region target mean, median, or modal value.\no create subimage, mosaic m x n 1-d or 2-d images to get larger image,\n collapse 2-d image into 1-d image.\no plot 1-d section or collapsed section of 2-d image, plot histogram of\n region of an image.\no review/change image information/header data, rename keywords, plot\n keyword values for a set of images.\no luminance/photometry: elliptical or circular aperture photometry,\n brightness profile, isophotal photometry between set of upper & lower\n luminances, area and luminance inside traced polygon. Interactive\n background fitting and removal from part or all of image, fit elliptical\n aperture shape to image isophotes. \no interactive with 2-d image: contrast/brightness, x- y- or diagonal plot\n of pixel values, distance between two points, compute region stats,`\n centroid, pan to x,y location or image center, zoom 1/16 to 10 times,\n change cursor to rectangle crosshair, full image crosshair, or off, and\n adjust cursor size on image. Select linear, log or gamma transfer function\n or histogram equalization.\no interactive or specified image offset computation and re-sampling for\n registration.\no interactive with 1-d image: zoom in x- y- or both in steps of 1/2 or\n 2 times current, re-center plot, or enlarge a framed area. 4 plot buffers\n can be cycled through. Interactive data analysis: polynomial fitting,\n point deletion, undelete, change value, point weighting, linear and\n quadratic loess and binomial smoothing, revert to unit point weights\n or original data buffer, substitute results into data buffer for pass\n back to calling function. Dump data buffer (+ overlays and error bars)\n to file or printer. Change to user specified coordinate system.\no Tricolor image combination and display, hardcopy halftone printout to\n HP-PCL compatible printers (Laserjet, deskjet, etc.)\no Documentation is over 300 pages in custom vinyl binder.\n\n Cost: 995 $USD/copy\n\n Available from:\n\n Axiom Research, Inc.\n Box 44162\n Tucson, AZ 85733\n (602) 791-2864 phone/fax.\n\n international marketing rep: Saguaro Scientific Corporation, Tucson, Arizona.\n\n==========================================================================\n\nEnd of Part 2 of the Resource Listing", "Hello everybody,\n\nI hope that I insert the right Options, so that my question is only\ndistributed through out Germany, because my question is more or less\ncountry dependend.\n\nNow the question:\n Is there anybody who can tell my if (and of course where) there is\n a ftp-site/archie (or whatever) where DIN fonts for X are available.\n I am looking for fonts holding the specification:\n DIN 16\n DIN 6776\n DIN V 40950\n\n\nThanks in advance\n\nJuergen Schietke\nResearch Insitute for Discrete Mathematics\nUniversity of Bonn\nNassestr. 2\n5300 Bonn 1 (Germany)", "Hi all,\n\nHas anyone heard of this board? It's a \n486DX2-33/66. \n\nIf so, does anyone know if it will work\nwith BSD or Linux?\n\nA local PC vendor has this. He says it's a U.S.\nbrand.\n\nPlease e-mail if possible.\n\nThanks,\n", " [stuff deleted]\n\nActually, it does make a reasonable amount of sense. Fixed disk\nsectors are buffered by the controller, and transferring them to\nmemory with a 'rep insw' (or whatever the instruction is called) is\nquite efficient (single instruction, goes as fast as the\ncontroller/cpu know how to use the bus). Since the 286 wasn't cached,\nthe bus is likely a critical resource relative to CPU performance, and\nit's possible that DMA bus interference would cause as much or more\nloss of CPU cycles (for 'computing') as does the 'rep insw' sequence.\n\nThe floppy, on the other hand, is not buffered, so that using the CPU\nfor floppy data transfer (as was done on the PC Jr, by the way) really\ndoes stink.", "\nThe only things you'll be able to salvage from the junior are the floppy drives\nand monitor. The floppies are 360k, and the monitor is CGA, but you will need\nan adaptor cable to use it. The junior does not use standard cards. Unless \nyou're really strapped for cash, you should just junk the thing and buy new \nstuff.\n\nDan\n", ":tarnold@vnet.IBM.COM (Todd W. Arnold) said in article <19930322.101356.617@almaden.ibm.com>:\n:>It's OK as long as you trust the end-user to stay out of your application\n:>program - or as long as it runs in a system where the user can't get to it.\n:>Otherwise, you can't stop him from finding the \"load a module\" code in your\n:>program, and simply bypassing the check for a valid module. The devious user\n:>can either modify the object code before running the program, or he can run\n:>the program under a debugger and change the instructions in memory.\n:There is a way to foil debuggers, by clearing the single step \n:interrupt, on which a debugger depends, every few instructions in \n:the sensitive areas of the code.\n\nThis assumes the person is using the hardware debug instruction of an X86\ntype processor. It can be negated by NOP'ing the clear debug instruction,\nor by running the code on a machine simulator, like one I wrote as a senior\nproject in college. It can bypass and trace practically anything one could\nwrite in software. Kind of like being on a Star Trek Holideck :-).\n", "\nTo clarify a little more: SOUND.EXE is a self-expanding archive which\ncontains the driver (which is actually called SPEAKER.DRV, I think).", "Does one exist, who makes it, and how much?\nThanks:)", " |I am considering buying Borland's Paradox for Windows since I\n |would like to use a database with Windows (I don't have/use\n |one yet) for both work/home use. I would like to advantage\n |of Borland's \"$129.95 until April 30\" offer if this package\n |is everything that Borland claims it to be. So, I was\n |wondering ... has anybody used this and/or have any opinions?", "\nOn all 1.44Mb drives (both Mac and PC), the disk spins at a constant\nRPM. On 800k Mac disk drives, the spin rate of the disk is varied so \nthat the tracks pass under the head at a constant speed; a slower rotation\nfor the outer tracks, and a faster rotation for the inner tracks. A PC\nneeds special controller hardware to make this happen.", "\n\nHi, \n\nI posted that article. Unfortunately I haven't seen any further notice of\nit. They advertize cheaper Duo's at the U here for next wek. According\nto the articel though, the price cut had to be effective the same day.\n\nnewsbyte is a group of news like clarinet.", "Hello,\n I just got some SIMMs, at least one of which does not work. I don't know if \nthere is a software that can test SIMMs thoroughly or I could just rely on the \nRAM test performed by my computer during the start up. When I installed a dead \nSIMM into an LC or an LC II, there would be a strange music and no display on \nthe screen. Why? I need your help! Thanks in advance", "Hello fellow netlanders.\n\nI have a Genius Mouse model GM-6, but no driver for it.\nIt's a 3 button mouse. If anyone that;s got one of theese\ncould mail me a driver (config.sys or autoexec.bat) I would\nbe very happy.\n\n\n\n", "Does anybody have informations about the\n\n W 86 C 451 and W 86 C 456 chips (40pin DIL pckg)?\n\nThey are build in a multifunction io-card for pc.\n\nThanks \n Dirk\n-- \n------------------------------------------------------------\nDirk Junghanns junghanns@rz.tu-ilmenau.de", ": From: caronni@nessie.cs.id.ethz.ch (Germano Caronni)\n\n: >Can someone tell me if hardware compression is or is not needed to run\n: >digital speech down 14.4K? I think it is; I've heard it's not. Lets\n: >say 8 bit samples. Would *raw* data at the corresponding sampling rate\n: >be usable? If not, how fancy does the compression need to be?\n\n: As far as I know ISDN (call it Swissnet here, and it's being plugged in) it's\n: 8 bit 8000Hz (gives you one channel of 64kBit/sec) I guess you should not go\n: below a sampling rate of 6000 Hz if you want to have same quality as on an\n: analog-line. Anybody knows compression-algorithms & -factors for voice ?\n\nI've posted some info on CELP coding on sci.crypt. Looks like you can\nsqueeze speech into 4000bps if you have a fast enough computer like a\nsparcstation (or a Newton with the Acorn Risc Machine in it :-) )\n\nThis drops the bandwidth to so low a figure that it's feasible to run\nspeech over tcp/ip running on top of slip down a v32bis modem. Not only\nwill this let us run point to point encrypted speech, it'll let us\nrun speech internationally over the internet if no-one stops us by\ngetting *very* heavy about regulations. The thought of this, if the\nadministration realised, would probably scare them shitless.\n\nNow of course the trick is to develop and define a standard protocol\nfor internet speech *damn fast*, allowing anyone who feels brave to\ninplement custom handheld hardware as well as us hacking it on our\nworkstations. Shouldn't be too difficult. The CELP stuff is standardised,\nwe use tcp/ip streams, and a protocol allowing silences to be used to\ncatch up on any net lag, and also to avoid sending any data during\nsilences (ie it's not wise to be synchronised real-time on each end\nbecause any net delays would add up to big voice-lags)\n\nAs for me, I'm going to press ahead on trying this stuff as soon as\nI get my sparc back from being loaned out and buy the necessary microphone.\nIt'll save me a fortune in calling my friend in texas every night :)\n(whether encrypted or not)\n\nYou know, surely *someone* is working on this. Who? It's so obvious,\nwhy doesn't it exist already? I've only seen netphone for Suns and\nit didn't do the CELP compression so was restricted to ether connections.", "I'd like to compile X11r5 on a Sony NWS-1750 running NEWS 4.1c. The\nX distribution has support for this config, and the release notes say\nit has been tested on the machine. BUT, also in the release notes,\nnothing from Sony is listed under the supported servers. What am I\nsupposed to use for my r5 X server then? How can the OS be supported,\nbut not the hardware? Is there something in the r4 binaries that can\nbe used as the r5 server? These may seem like silly questions, but\nI'm *really* confused.\n-- \nmike@hopper.acs.virginia.edu ", "\n It's made by Rohm. (as is all BAxxx parts). Call 714-855-2131 and ask if\n you can get a sample (it's only like a $2 part).\n\n\n", "I started a similar thread about a month ago, and got many replies.\nThe summary:\n\nCTX 14\": Nasty, low quality. Avoid.\n\nCTX 15\" Proscan: Not as good as some other makes; however, cheap.\n Main problem seems poor quality control. Some reported pincushioning\n (the problem I had), others poor focus, etc, etc.\n\nI complained about mine and it was 're-tuned' (I dodn't even pay\nshipping) and returned to me in 2 days. \n\nIt's now clear, well-focussed and has no pincushioning or barrel\ndistortion at all. I'm very happy with it, and the digital\ncontrols and mode memory are nice. Certainly, a Trinitron\n(say) would be much nicer, but that's well out of my price range.\n\nConclusion: If you're on a budget, get one and be prepared to\nsend it back if it's not perfect. It probably won't be when you get it,\nbut has good potential.", "\nYou mean grep (Unix is case dependent) and awk (where did you get AUCK from?)", "Hi,\n\nI would like to hear the net.wisdom and net.opinions on IDE Controllers.\nI would liek to get a IDE controller card for my VLB DX2 66 Motherboard.\nWhat are good options for this (preferably under $200). It MUST also work\nunder OS/2 and be compatible with Stacker (and other Disk Compression S/W).\n\nPlease advise .....\n\nDivya\n-- \nDivya", "I am planning on buying a modem and related software. What are some good \nproducts out there that won't cost me a lot of money but will still do \nthe job? \n\nAny help will be appreciated. I am looking for something in the 2400 baud \narea. \n\nKenneth\n \n\n-- ", "[deleted]\n\nI'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding your post, but DRAM *does not* have to\nbe refreshed on *each access cycle*. So cycle time does *not* have to be\ntwice the access time *because of refresh phase*.\n\nThe access time usually means the delay time from falling edge of raw\naddress strobe (RAS) to data bus driven.\n\nDRAM access cycle timing chart can be roughly shown as following (some\nsignals are intentionally omitted);\n\nADDR ------------------ RA=Raw Address, CA=Column Address\nRAS ~~~~\\________/~~~~~\\________/~~~~~\t\t~=High, _=Low, -=Floating\nCAS ~~~~~~~\\_______/~~~~~~\\_______/~~~\t\t<..>=driven either H or L\nDATA --------------------\n |-------+------|\n |-+--| |\n | +----------- cycle time\n +---- access time (or RAS access time)\n\nYes, the cycle time is more than twice as the access time but *not*\nbecause of the refresh phase. The refresh can be done either as a\ntrailing phase of normal access cycle or as an individual cycle.\n\n[other stuff deleted]\n\nKen Nakata", "I am servicing a machine (HP-286) and whenever the thing starts up I get\n4 beeps on powerup. Does anyone know what error message that signifies? I \ndon't seem to have any problem with the machine but the lady who is using it\nis \"very concerned\" about it. \n\nDon't you just love HP computers???\n\nPreferr responses by E-mail but I read the net so you can post it here.\n", "\nDoesn't MS do the same? (I.e., subsidize app development)\n\nI seem to remember someone at RPI who received an entire (expensive, to run\nNT) machine to develop for NT. Free. And that's just the small fry...", "Hi peeps,\n\nHere's another of those \"any ideas\" type queries.\n\nI've been given an oldish Phillips TeleVideo terminal type thingy, without\na keyboard. But no problem so far.\n\nWhen I dismantled it, I discovered that it is really just a standard\nRGB monitor with built in modem/ROM software etc.\n\nPhillips kindly labelled the circuit board with the RGB inputs, so I\nconnected it up as a monitor and he presto it worked - sort of.\n\nThe problem is that I have no idea where to connect the Sync lines.\nThe display rolls continuously, but does change modes (OK only to\nCGA - but useful for my laptop).\n\nAny of you wonderful people any knowledge of Phillips monitors?\n\nI've tried Phillips in the UK and a very helpful guy told me that\nhe has had several enquiries of this sort, but Phillips Computer\nis now under the auspices of DEC (at least in the UK). DEC said\nsorry Phillips don't make it any more. What is it anyway?\nA UK support dealer said \"Circuit diagrams? Sync?\"\n\nSo any ideas.\n\nJohn.\n", "I just received a music software WinSong for Windows and found that it needs\na MIDI/sound card (Sound Blaster Pro is preferred) to have its fantastic\nfeatures show up. As I don't have the plan to add a sound card now, I am \nputting it here for sale. It's listed $79.95 on April issue of WINDOWS \nmagazine and I paid $84.95 as the total. I am asking around $70 with shipping\nincluded.\n\nWinSong for Windows:\n\nComposer, sequencer (tape deck), and Juke Box all in one.\n\nIt's a word processor for music - you can write and edit (cut, paste, move\nand copy, etc) notes and symbols, play and print your composition.\n\nIt's graphical user interface works like a multi-track tape recorder.\nUp to 64 musical tracks can be arranged for play, record, rewind, fast-forward\nand stop.\n\nIt plays music on any MIDI compatible instrument - piano, guitar, drum set,\nsaxophone, clarinet, organ, and many.\n\nYou do not need to be a musician to use this software. The on-line manual\nis handy. For musicians, it's great as writing music is not a tedious and\nstifling aspect.", "Preface: I am a novice user at best to the Windows environment.\n\nI am trying to execute a MS C++ 7.0 executable program which accesses a Btrieve\ndatabase to build an ASCII file. \n\nWhen I execute it under windows the screen goes blank and my PC locks up. The only\nway for me to return is to reset the machine.\n\nDoes anyone have any insight on what I may have to do in order for the program to\ncorrectly under windows? (By the way it runs fine in DOS 5.0)\n\nSystem: Gateway 486/DX250 \n\t ATI Graphics Ultra Card 640x480\n\nAny help would be greatly appreciated.", "Hi there,\n\nWith a 16Megs of RAM, is there a need to run/load Smartdrv for\nWindows 3.1? If yes, can I run/load Ramdrive without Smartdrv?\nIf I need both Ramdrive & Smartdrv, is the following Config.Sys\nsettings OK: ...SMARTDRV.SYS 2048 2048\n ...RAMDRIVE.SYS 2048 /E\n\nThanks in advance for e-mail reply.", "I just installed a Motorola XC68882RC50 FPU in an Amiga A2630 board (25 MHz\n68030 + 68882 with capability to clock the FPU separately). Previously\na MC68882RC25 was installed and everything was working perfectly. Now the\nsystems displays a yellow screen (indicating a exception) when it check for\nthe presence/type of FPU. When I reinstall an MC68882RC25 the system works\nfine, but with the XC68882 even at 25 MHz it does not work. The designer\nof the board mentioned that putting a pullup resistor on data_strobe (470 Ohm)\nmight help, but that didn't change anything. Does anybody have some\nsuggestions what I could do? Does this look like a CPU-FPU communications\nproblem or is the particular chip dead (it is a pull, not new)?\nMoreover, the place I bought it from is sending me an XC68882RC33. I thought\nthat the 68882RC33 were labeled MC not XC (for not finalized mask design). \nAre there any MC68882RC33?", "\n\n\nThe problem is that QuinZip is very very slow. So I think that WinZip 4.0\nis still the best choice to use pkzip in Windows!", "I am in the market for a couple of Intel 486 chips.\n\tPlease let me know if you have one (or more) for sale.\n\tI am interested in both SX and DX models, but they\n\tmust be Intel.\n\t\n\temail me at: bitzm@columbia.dsu.edu\n\n", "I own a Mac IIsi and am considering upgrades (cards, hard drive, etc).\nCan you tell me what the power limitations are for 1) the PDS slot\nand 2) the hard drive power feed. Secondly, Can you tell me if there\nis a separate limit for each, or if instead, there is a single limit\nfor both combined?", "\nOkay, that's good. I'm typing this from exactly the same setup.\n(US-UNIX layout keyboard) I did install the sunkbd patch, though.\n\n\nMake sure you're using \"ssetroot\", which comes with tvtwm. When tvtwm\nstarts up, it nukes the existing root window. Use an \"ssetroot\" after\ntvtwm starts up. (You could spawn off a \"(sleep 10; ssetroot ...)&\")\nYou can also use \"VirtualDesktopBackgroundPixmap filename\" or just\nVirtualDesktopBackground if you just want another color besides grey.\n\n\nDid you install the sunkbd patch? It's in the contrib directory on export.\nAll the keys on my keyboard send events properly, except the following:\nThe End, PageUp, PageDown on the 6-key cluster aren't recognized.\nEven the compose key works. (Though I can't seem to get the composed\ncharacters in an xterm to get passed.)\n\nAnyone have a fix for the last two?\n\n--Dave", "\nI think the subject title says it all. Anybody that relies on a SCSI dick\nfor stoarage is a pain in the ass!!\n", "\n\n :\n :\n\n |> XSetFunction( myDisplay, gc, GXxor);\n |> XSetForeground( myDisplay, gc, drawIndex);\n |> \n |> Then to draw I do:\n |> \n |> XDrawLine( myDisplay, XtWindow( drawingArea1), gc, x1, y1, x2, y2);\n |> XFlush( myDisplay);\n |> \n |> And when I'm all done, to return things to normal I do:\n |> \n |> XSetFunction( myDisplay, gc, GXcopy);\n |> \n |> \n |> What I'd like to happen is for the lines I draw to be the inverse of\n |> whatever I'm drawing over. Instead what happens is I get white lines. If\n |> the lines are over a white background - nothing shows up. If the lines are\n |> over a black area - nothing shows up! It's very strange. But the GXxor\n |> function seems right - since if I do a rubber-banding box, it erases and\n |> redraws itself correctly (ie. not disturbing the underlying image).\n |> \n |> Any suggestions what I'm doing wrong?\n |> \n |> david\n\n\n Try change the GXxor to GXequiv. I have to do this for programs that\n are to run on NCD terminals (on Sun terminals I have to change it\n back to GXxor)...\n\nThere is a small section in the O'Reilly Xlib books that describes\nthe right thing to do. The key is to set the plane_mask in the\nGC to the OR of the foreground and background pixel values.\n\n\n", "\nThey require two separate grounds. One ground goes to the ground pin\nof the outlet, and the other ground wire is connected to the outlet's\nmounting tabs (and thus grounds the box and faceplate screw and metal\nfaceplate, if any).\n\nThe box/faceplate ground goes to the normal distribution panel ground.\nThe outlet ground-pin wire is generally connected to an insulated\nbusbar in the distribution panel which is, in turn, connected to\nthe building-entrance main ground by its own wire.", "\n\n\nYou forget the obvious! If it is an *authorised* tap then it can be done at\nthe exchange. If the exchange is *digital* then I suspect that you can\nauto-monitor a line and pickup the full link. Therefore syncing a piggyback\nmodem on the line would not be impossible - I suspect.\n-- ", "I have a Fujitsu M2322K which has been removed (I believe) from a digital\nX-Ray machine (takes X-Ray pictures without film). The Fujitsu part number\nis B03B-4745-B002A.\n\nI have obtained some data on the device, it is 8-inch winchester-type\nof 168 megabyte capacity (though I was told it was over 800 megabytes).\nHowever, there is very little information on the interface standard used.\nIt appears to use two balanced-line connections, but what each connection\ncorresponds to I know not. One connection is a 30-way IDC, the other a\n60-way IDC.\n\nIf anyone has any information on this device, I would be most grateful\nif you could provide it.\n\nThanks.\n\n\nChris Powell.", "The Quantum LPS 240AT is supposed to have a 256K cache on the IDE\ncontroller built into the card. Yet when I do a DOS DIR command\non my system, the disk is always accessed (I can hear the mechanical\nmovement of the heads). Why is this happening? Strangely, even\nwhen I have smartdrive installed, every DIR command accesses the\ndisk. Did I somehow de-activate the cache? This is happening on each \nof two machines with an LPS 240AT drive.\n", " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nMost fellow Diamond video board owners with whom I've corresponded may\nor may not share your opinion about the proprietary clocking scheme, but\nall of those with whom I've chatted have NOT been thrilled with the\nWindow's drivers, either. Some modes work fine, but others cause\nstrange misdrawn objects, trails, etc. Many have also voiced their\nstrong discontent to Diamond's ambivalent attitude toward OS/2 drivers.\n\nCome to think of it, though, I hear and see a lot of complaints about\nthe ATI boards too, though recent word looks like the build 59 code looks\nmuch better.\n\nDoes ANYONE have an accelerated video board with drivers for Windows\n(OS/2?) where ALL the modes function properly? Anyone? Anyone?\n\nLance Hartmann (lance%hartmann.austin.ibm.com@ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com)\n Yes, that IS a '%' (percent sign) in my network address.", "Here is the MacWeek article describing the DUO ram situation.\n(w/o permission. I hope that is ok)\n\nJose\n\nBad RAM brings some Duos down. (random access memory boards for Apple\nMacintosh PowerBook Duos) \nMacWEEK v7, n7 (Feb 15, 1993):132.\n\nCOPYRIGHT Coastal Associates Publishing L.P. 1993\n\nBy Raines Cohen\n\n Austin, Texas - Some third-party memory-expansion cards for PowerBook\nDuos depart from Apple specs in ways that could cause crashes, data loss\nand other problems.\n\n Technology Works Inc., a RAM and network vendor based here, last week\nissued a warning about three problems it said it had found in Duo RAM\nproducts from some competing vendors, which it declined to identify.\nOther vendors and an Apple spokeswoman confirmed that the problems exist.\n\n > Self-refresh. The Duos require a kind of dynamic RAM called\nselfrefreshing, which can recharge itself while the system sleeps. But\nTechnology Works said some vendors have sold Duo cards with\nnonselfrefreshing DRAM, which can cause the system to lose data or fail to\nwake from sleep.\n\n Most leading memory manufacturers include the letter V in the part\nnumber stamped on their self-refreshing chips; nonself-refreshing chips\ninstead have an L, according to TechWorks. The chip label, however, may\nnot tell the whole story. Newer Technology of Wichita, Kan., said it uses\nnonself-refreshing chips but adds its own circuitry to keep them refreshed\nwhile the Duo sleeps.\n\n > Speed. Some RAM-card vendors have put 80-nanosecond DRAM on Duo\ncards rather than the 70-nanosecond type the 230 requires, Technology\nWorks said. However, some chips labeled as 80- or 85-nanosecond are\ncertified by the manufacturer to run at a higher speed.\n\n Kingston Technology Corp. of Fountain Valley, Calif., said it offers\nDuo RAM cards with 80-nanosecond chips, but only for the Duo 210, which is\ncompatible with the slower chips.\n\n > Space. Technology Works charged and Apple officials confirmed that\nsome third-party cards are too large to fit properly, forcing the corner\nof the Duo keyboard up and preventing the system from starting up normally\nwhen in a Duo Dock.", "Anyone know a reasonable circuit for programming PALs? I am interested\nin programming a wide range of EPLDs but would be happy with something \nthat could handle a 22V10 or thereabouts.\n\nThanks in advance,\n--Tim\n", "\n\n\nThe current Adaptec drivers do not support the Toshiba 3401. you should\nget the Corel SCSI drivers, which do support it.\n\nThis is the method that I used, and it works well.\n\nCorel's phone number is 1(613) 728-3733\n\nJust a satisfied user.\n\n\n\nJB", "I am having problems with a Motif application that when run on another machine\n(with different X paths, etc) can't find the XKeysymDB file. This causes a large\nwarning output:\n\nWarning: translation table syntax error: Unknown keysym name: osfActivate\nWarning: ... found while parsing 'osfActivate:ManagerParentActivate()'\nWarning: translation table syntax error: Unknown keysym name: osfCancel\nWarning: ... found while parsing 'osfCancel:ManagerParentCancel()'\nWarning: translation table syntax error: Unknown keysym name: osfSelect\nWarning: ... found while parsing 'osfSelect:ManagerGadgetSelect()'\n...\n....\n....\netc.\n\nas the file is in a different location, but Xt seems to only look for it in\nthe place where it is on the machine the app was compiled on. Is there any\nway to read the XKeysymDB manually with an X/Xt call so that additions to\nthe XKeysymDB can be distributed with the application ? I have used trace(1)\nto find out what was going on, but I need a fix so that these translations in\nthe application can be recognised.", "\n\nI think all Powerbooks use the same 2 Meg upgrade, but the\n4 Meg and 6 Meg upgrades are different for the PB100 than\nfor the other PBs.\n", "Hi,\n\nCan anyone tell me the difference between ~30-pin and 72-pin Simms?\nI wish to get detailed information about the origin of these two\ndifferent types of Simms, preferably a magazine review aricle.\n\nBy the way, if there is a FAQ for this group which covers the Simms\ninformation, please also direct me to it.\n\nAny help/information would be very much appreciated.\n\n\nSincerely,", "Hi, \n\nI have a simple question. Is it possible to create a OVERLAPPED THICKFRAME\nwindow without a title bar; ie\n\n\t(WS_OVERLAPPED | WS_THICKFRAME) & ~WS_CAPTION \n\n\nI don't seem to be able to get rid off the title bar.\n\nI have another question:\n\nI have a overlapped window(say V) which has few child windows (a,b,c, etc)\nThe window shows up with all it's children fine. Now, I create another \nchild(t) with a WS_THICKFRAME style and placed on top of one or more of\nit's siblings. Style WS_THICKFRAME is used so that I can resize it. How do\nI make sure that the child 't' will always be at the top of it's siblings.\nI used SetWindowPos() and BringWindowToTop() without success. What's happening\nis that while I am resizing 't' it shows up but as soon as I let go, it goes\nbehild it's siblings.\n\nAny help would be greatly appreciated.\n\nManu ", "Here's a good one: Does anyone know of a product that allows\nme to RACK MOUNT my 2CI (or maybe 650 if I blow some more\nmoney...) ??? My application is music, and would like to be\nable to haul it around (would probably plan to get an MO drive\nor something so I don't have to depend on an internal fixed\nhard drive - i.e., may be pretty rough on an internal HD...)\n\nI'm in the San Francisco Bay Area, if that matters.\nAlso, anyone have any info on 650's and Midi? And, would anyone\ncare to email me with the price they paid for their 650? Or if\nthere's a price list FAQ, never mind... Just curious about the\ndifference between the best retailers and the local university\npricing...", "\n\nYes I have written something that creates meshed fractal terrain\nsurfaces for exactly the purpose you require, importing into 3D\nmodelling packages. Be warned, the data content is high and brings\nmany packages to their knees. We use it primarily for MicroStation\nbut it exports DXF, as well as other formats, so you should be OK.\nYou can get it from my FTP mirror site in the US.\nIt is\n wuarchive.wustl.edu\nmy stuff is located in the\n mirrors/architec\ndirectory. Please FTP the README file first.\n\n-- \nPaul D Bourke School of Architecture, Property, Planning\npdbourke@ccu1.auckland.ac.nz The University of Auckland\nPh: +64 -9 373 7999 x7367 Private Bag 92019\nFax: +64 -9 373 7410 Auckland, New Zealand", "Hi all.\n\nI've been installing a new hard drive recently and have run into several\nterms that I'm not sure about.\n\n1.) Hard Sectored/Soft Sectored -- What's the difference? How do I know\nwhich to use?\n\n2.) Head Skew & Cylinder Skew -- I understand that these are related to\nperformance... How do I know what's optimal?\n\nMy drive is an ESDI drive, if that makes a difference in discussing\nthese terms.\n\n\t\tAny info/help is greatly appreciated!", "Someone was looking for these a few weeks ago - check out comp.dsp\nMike.\n", ": One not-so-quick question to throw out there for you guys...\n\n: For our class project, we need to design and build a power supply\n: to the following specs:\n\n: Voltatge: adjustable from 1-12V\n: Current: *limited* at 1A\n\n: Voltage must stay within 2% of designated value for I from 0-1A\n: AC ripple less than 5 mV (rms)\n\nTo decide which kind of circuit you must know the initialprecission of\nthe limiter-current and the allowed temp-drift.\n\nIn the first case, you can use a Ube of a transistor as a voltage-reference\nof about 0.7 VDC with a temp-drift of 2mV/K. In the second case its better\nyou use a bandgap-ref and a opamp-circuit to detect the maximum-current.\nThe output of this opamp controlls the outputstage to limit the current.", "Hello, \n\n Let me introduce a problem:\n\n When I measure a sinusoidal wave (voltage) with a digital voltmeter, using \nAC mode, my output is an rms value (a peak value over 2 squared). / Right? / \n When I measure a square wave in the same mode (AC), my output is equal \nto a peak value, actually, to the upper flat boundary of the wave.\n I assumed, that a digital voltmeter makes some kind of integration of the \ninput value, and divides it over the wave period. / Right?/\n Now, I used it to measure the same square wave as above, but distorted \nby high-frequency harmonics. Ideally, output should be the same, but...\nThe output value was only about 10% of the previous one! \n Why? What is the nature of this output value? What does the voltmeter \nactually measure? And what does it show? \n\n Related question (less important to me):\n What are advantages and disadvantages of digital voltmeters to compare with \nanalog ones? \n\n Thank you for your attention, you could mail me your opinion at\navm1993@zeus.tamu.edu or open a discussion here. I would appreciate either \nway.\n\n\nAlexander V. Mamishev\n\n____________________________________________________________________________\nPower System Automation Laboratory <> phone office (409) 845-4623 \nDepartment of Electrical Engineering <> phone home (409) 846-5850\nTexas A&M University <> fax (409) 862-2282\nCollege Station, TX 77843, USA <> Internet: avm1993@zeus.tamu.edu", "Hey now,\n\nThe following cds are still available. Offers/trades considered.\n\nGowan - Lost Brotherhood\nKatrina & the Waves - Break of Hearts\nJoe Cocker - Live\nCharles Neville - Diversity", "Hi\n\nI am trying to implement a pointer feature in Xlib\n\nI have multiple windows and all can take input and \nshow output simultaneously on all other displays\n\nI want to implement a pointer feature \n\nI would like to get the pointer to come up on all windows once \nI choose pointer in the menu and every one should be able\nto see it\n\nCan you give me some hints as to how I should proceed \n\n\nreplies will be greatly appreciated", "Hello!\n\nI have a SE/30 and a Generation Systems 8bit PDS card for a 17\"\nscreen.\nIt worked great until I upgraded from 5 to 20 mb ram.\nNow with Sys7.1 and MODE32 or 32enabler it does not boot..\n\na tech support person said the card does not support these 32bit\nfixes.\n\nBUT: when pressing the shift key while booting (when the ext. monitor\ngoes black after having been grey) the system SOMETIMES boots properly!!\nand then works ok with the 20mb and full graphics.\n\nWHAT's HAPPENING???\n\nThanks a lot for any advice!!!\nplease answer by mail.\n\nOssip Kaehr\nossip@cs.tu-berlin.de\nvoice: +49.30.6226317\n-- \n __ -------------------------------------------------------------- __\n/_/\\ Ossip Kaehr\tHermannstrasse 32 D-1000 Berlin 44 Germany /\\_\\\n\\_\\/ Tel. +49.30.6223910 or 6218814 EMail ossip@cs.tu-berlin.de \\/_/", "...\n\nThis is a common problem with highly complex TrueType fonts. Microsoft\nadmits to a problem with older versions of the PostScript printer driver,\nbut I've found it to be pretty generic.\n\nYou can get around the problem by adjusting the parameter OutlineThreshold\nin the [TrueType] section of WIN.INI. This entry specifies the number of\npels-per-em at which Windows will render TrueType fonts as outline fonts\ninstead of as bitmap fonts. The default is 256. I've generally been able\nto get fonts to work by setting OutlineThreshold=160. Depending on your\nprinter resolution and the point size you are using, you may need a\ndifferent value.\n\nThe Windows Resource Kit warns against going above 300. Presumably, that\nmight cause fonts to print as square boxes or something. :-| (I'm not\nsmiling.)\n", "Please reply via EMail...\n\nWhen I use the terminal software for Windows such as TERMINAL.EXE or \nCrossttalk, it doesn't use the whole window. I mean, when the software's\nwindow size is max, it still scrolls around the 2/3 of window. It does not\nuse whole window. I set \"stty rows 30\", but still the same. Scrolls at 2/3\nfrom the top of the windows. Could anyone tell me how to setup these software\nto use whole window?", "We are adding a Motif wrapper to a family of data display programs.\n\nThese programs are each written as a 'main loop' with these steps:\n- use semop to check a semaphore and if true access new data\n otherwise block (new data comes quite often)\n- use msgop to check for messages and if true read them\n otherwise continue (messages are user commands and not often)\n- update the display according to latest data and messages.\n\nWe typically have several of these running in windows,\nplus a data producer serving some device and setting the flag.\nEveryone blocking makes sure the device server gets to run.\n\nXt and Xm also have a 'main loop' model that we must fit into.\nO'Reilly Vol IV Ch 9 discusses adding a file-watcher and also\nhow to add workprocs that are run during idle time.\n\nWe can 'open-up' our existing main loop and call it as a workproc.\nThe problem is our blocking until new data is no longer appropriate.\nNeither is letting the program free-run because others are hurt.\n\nThe unix select call lets you block until any of several i/o are ready.\nWe want that for the X main loop except not file i/o.\nAny suggestions or examples most welcome!\n\nWe run SGI Personal Iris and Indigo systems.", "If you would like to sell your Technics SA-GX910 receiver, or know\nsomeone who would like to sell it, please contact me. I'm willing \nto pay any reasonable price. Thanx.", "Word 2.0c doesn't show the period-centred character to indicate\nspaces if I use the TTFonts from CorelDraw. Our editors need to\nbe able to see how many spaces are in text but the character \ndisplayed is a large hollow box. They overlap each other and\ncharacters on each side, which is useless.\n\nI believe the character used by W4W is the period-centred (0183).\nThis character shows up with the windows Charmap display as the\nhollow box which tends to confirm this. I have edited the corel\nfont with Fontmonger and changing the font graphics for the 0183\ncharacter makes no difference to the font output in Charmap or W4W.\nAltering the paragraph (0182) or cedilla (0184) does alter their font\ngraphics displayed however!!\n\nIs the W4W character used to indicate spaces the period-centred character? \n\nHas anyone been able to get this character displayed from a CorelDraw TTF?\n", "Using a Windows 3.1 printer driver, I would like to \"print to a file\", with\noutput as a Postscript file. Later, I would like to take this Postscript file\nto a machine with an attached Hewlett Packard 4M laser printer, and print the\ndocument at 600 dots per inch resolution.\n\nI would like to use this method to print from WordPerfect For Windows, and from\nan image processing program that can output images in Postscript.\n\nHere's the problem: the Windows Postscript printer driver (pscript.drv)\ndoesn't allow me to specify 600 dpi. In fact, the setup dialog for this driver\ndoes have a pull-down menu for \"resolution\", but the only choice given in the\nmenu is 300! Not a really useful menu.\n\nAny ideas?", "\nAh... The joys of networking. I just hope that you forgot the :->\n\n\nI don't. I use NDW.\n\n\nIf you like things to be modular, I think you would love System 7.\nInstead of adding a line to your autoexec.bat, you just drop the\nicon into the extensions folder.\n", "Hi folks\n\nI'm planning to buy a LCIII but need advice on choosing a monitor.\nWhat do people recommend for a decent 14\"/15\" monitor? \n\nI'v looked at some ads and the spec for NEC 4FG/4FGe and the price is \nwithin my budget, but could LCIII be able to use the various resolutions \navailable on 4FG (specifically the 1024x768 resolution)? Does LCIII only \nsupport one resolution?\n\nAlso any recommendations for a reliable mail order place for LCIII or\nmonitors? Does anyone have experience with the following mail-order places?\n\n\tSYEX EXPRESS \t(Houston, Tx)\n\tUSA FLEX \t(Bloomingdale, Il)\n\nThanks,\n\njeff\n\n", "I'm giving up hardware design and\nam selling my Oscilloscope:\n\n\tBK Precision Model 1541B\n\t40 MHZ Dual-Trace\n\tBarely Used\n\t$450 firm (Fry's sells it for $589+tax)\n\nPrefer people in Silicon Valley, so I don't have to ship it.", ": \n: >I've got the 6.0 spec (obviously since I quoted it in my last posting). \n: >My gripe about TIFF is that it's far too complicated and nearly\n: >infinitely easier to write than to read,...\n: \n: Why not use the PD C library for reading/writing TIFF files? It took me a\n: good 20 minutes to start using them in your own app.\n: \n: Martin\n: \nWhat is the name of this PD C library for TIFF. I'd like to get a copy of it,\nbut I can't Archie for something I don't have the filename for.", "I designed and built hardware in 1988 that would output a logic level (from\na 567 tone detector) upon detecting a 500 microwatt LED 28 feet away.\nUsed a Motorola MRD360, biased linearly in a DC-feedback loop to servo out\nvariations in sunlight (and 60Hz from lights). Used no lenses.", "I have an 8000S I'd like to sell. Now that I'm finished with my TAing,\nI don't have nearly as many appoints to miss, and I'd like to put the\nmoney toward a laptop.\n\nAsking $200. I bought it last Christmas. It's in great shape and\nincludes (as an added bonus!) a nice, padded leather carrying case.\n--\nBlair MacIntyre --- bm@cs.columbia.edu --- CS Department, Columbia University", "Hello World.\nIn posts I've heard about all of the bugs in the DSS24X and the drivers.\nNow I hear that Diamond ships BIOS replacements to some people, that fixes\na lot of problems as well as new drivers. Can anyone tell me how to get mine?", "\nYou're supposed to delete everything above the \"cut here\" mark, and\nbelow the lower cut here mark, and uudecode it. but \n*I was not able to: unexpected end of file encountered at the last line.\n\ncould you please re-post it, or tell be what I'm doing wrong?\n\nthanks,i.a.,\nMickey\n\n", "Last week I asked for help in getting an old homemade amp working with\nmy Sun CD-ROM drive. It turns out that the channel I was testing with\nwas burned out in the amp. The other channel works fine.\n\nSo now I need a new amplifier chip. My local Radio Shack no longer\ncarries components! The chip is a 12 pin SIP (?) labelled with BA5406\nand then \"502 515\" below that.\n\nDoes anyone have a source? Thanks,", "\n\n\nAs applied to servers, the first three are fuzzy terms. \"multi-headed\"\ntends to be used for any system with multiple monitors, sometimes even\nmultiple screens even if they're multiplexed onto the same monitor (eg,\na Sun with a cg4 display). \"multi-screen\" and \"multi-display\" would,\nif taken strictly, mean different things, but since the strict meaning\nof \"multi-display\" would refer to a system with multiple keyboards and\npointers, when it's used it probably refers to the same thing\n\"multi-screen\" would: a system that provides multiple Screens.\n\n\"zaphod\" is a term applied to the way the MIT server switches the\npointer from one screen to another by sliding it off the side of the\nscreen.\n\n\nThere is a protocol limitation that restricts a given Display to at\nmost 255 Screens. I know of no server that handles multiple Displays\non a single invocation, unless possibly my kludges to the R4 server can\nbe looked upon as such; on a TCP-based system there is necessarily a\nlimit of 65535 Displays per machine, but this is not a limitation\ninherent to X.\n\nWhat you read was most likely talking about a limit in some particular\nimplementation (probably the MIT one). If it claimed there was a limit\nof 12 inherent to X, the author of the article had no business writing\nabout X.\n\n\t\t\t\t\tder Mouse", "Having vainly looked for devices capable of dealing to the NEC 77P20\nDSP chip which dont require taking out a mortgage, i decided to roll\nmy own. Not a difficult task for an 8751, given that all the timing\nrelationships are set out in the databook. One thing bothers me, that\nis the accursed 50ms 21 volt Vpp pulse. Sure, a little buck step-up\nconverter can achieve this (in what is otherwise an all 5 volt widget)\nbut i know latterday eproms dont need nearly this pulse length.\nQ : has anyone come up with a more efficient programming algorithm\nwhich is failsafe ?\ncheers\nMike.\n", "hello out in networld,\n\n We have a lab of old macs(SEs and Pluses). We don't have enough money \nto buy all new machines, so we are considering buying a few superdrives for \nour old macs to allow folks with high density disks to use our equipment. \nI was wondering what experiences (good or bad) people have had with this sort\nof upgrade.\n\n\nmurray\n", "Posting for a friend. Reply to him, not to me.\n\nFor Sale: Micro Soft DOS v. 5.0\n\nMicro Soft DOS v. 5.0\nRelease date: 11/11/91\n3 1/2\" diskettes\nmanual in perfect conditioni\nbest offer accepted (I pay shippinig)\n\nContact Randall at:", "1) Complete 80386Dx25Mhz System for sale\n SVGA card/w color Tatung VGA Monitor\n 2s/1p\n 2 floppies (1.44 and 1.2)\n 230 Watt Power supply\n 1 meg ram installed\n 80 meg IDE 14ms Hard drive\n Best offer...\n\n2) Bits and pieces\n\ta) IDE controller card\n\tb) internal 2400 baud modem\n\tc) 80386Dx25Mhz CPU\n\td) 3 megs SIMM memory\n\te) Standard VGA card\n\n3) Panasonic KXP-1524 Wide Carriage 24 pin Printer\n\tBrand new condition\n\tcomes with plenty 'o ribbons\n\tParallel and Serial ports\n\tNice crisp output\n\nALl items are in beautiful condition. All fully functional. Willing to\nprovide net references if needed. Best offers on all items snag 'em.\nThanks for your time!\n\nCiaran", "\nYou have one. Minimize the print manager and drag a file to it and it will\nprint it. You need to associate file extensions with such things as the\nnotepad for it to do this though.", "I am interrested in the extrodinarily simple concept of the null modem\ncable. (Actually I have NO idea, so don't count that last statement.) What I'm\nasking is what pins does it use (or what are it's specifications?) I just want\nto solder one myself instead of buying one. I don't even know what port is\nused.\n\nHelp me please (at ke_kimmell@vax.cns.muskingum.edu)\n\nKevin", "\n\nExcuse me, that's 850 x 1163.\n\n-- Mike\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDisclaimer: My opinions do not necessarily reflect those of my employer.\n========================================================================", "I have 9 of these mice which are just taking up space in my\noffice. Please buy them. The price is only $11 and it\nwill only cost you 2.90 to ship USPS if you prepay.\nHere is all I know about them:\nMice 2-button high resolution 400cpi \n\nThe mice are acutally quite comfortable, much like the new\nhp ergo mouse. Snugs the hand.", "Sorry, I've lost track of who asked the question originally \n\t(our news server at GSFC keeps things around for tremendously\n\tshort periods of time), but wanted to be certain before I\n\treplied. Someone asked about displaying the compressed images\n\tfrom the Voyager imaging CD-ROMs on a Mac. As Peter Ford (MIT)\n\tpointed out, a decompression program is available via FTP.\n\t(Sorry, I don't remember the name of the node offhand, \n\talthough it's .mit.edu.) In any case, though, one of the MAC\n\tdisplay programs (CD ROM Browser by Dana Swift) does display\n\tthe compressed images directly. The program is shareware and\n\tis distributed by NSSDC for nominal reproduction costs ($9 +\n\tshipping, if memory serves). This does *not* cover the\n\tshareware price which should go to Dana for his diligent work\n\tand upgrades, however.\n\n\tTo request current pricing information, information about\n\tavailable display software, catalogs, or data from NSSDC,\n\tcontact our user support office at:\n\n\t\tNational Space Science Data Center\n\t\tCoordinated Request and User Support Office (CRUSO)\n\t\tMail Code 633\n\t\tNASA/Goddard Space Flight Center\n\t\tGreenbelt, MD 20771\n\t\tPhone: (301) 286-6695\n\t\tFax: (301) 286-4952", "\nPEXLIB and PHIGS (as it comes from MIT with PEX and as is explained in the\nPHIGS Programming Manual) are just different API's for the PEX protocol,\nwhich is an extension to the X protocol.\n\nSo it depends on You, what you go to use.\n\nAdvantage of Phigs is the protability to other platforms (IBM GraPhigs, \nSunPhigs) and the standardized structuring of the 3D objects.\n\nAdvantage of PEXlib is the sometimes faster and easier programming for\nimmediate mode graphics, because PEX is not an exactly mapping of Phigs\nto a Prortocol.\n\n-- \n \\|/\n (o o)\n -oOO--(_)--OOo--------------------------------------------------------\n \\\\ Roland Holzapfel Computer email: //\n \\\\ Wilhelminenstrasse 7 Graphics holzapfe@igd.fhg.de //\n // 6100 Darmstadt Center phone: \\\\\n // Germany (ZGDV) ++49 6151 155150 \\\\\n -----------------------------------------------------------------------\n >> This space intentionally left blank <<", "I am working with Visual Basic v2.0 for windows.\nSpecifically, I am working on an application that generates formatted reports.\nSince, some of these reports can be rather large, my first question is:\n\n1. Is there a way to increase the size of a list box or text box in\nVisual Basic/windows beyond the 64k limit?\n\nAs I have not (as yet - being optimistic :-) come across a way to get\naround the above problem, I am working on the following approach:\n\nI am trying to create my own defined template in MS-Word, using the\nWordBasic Macros so that I can open up Word from Visual Basic(VB) and load\nthis template of mine, which will work in the following way:\n\nIt will first open MyOwn.INI file (created in VB - at the time when the\nuser selected the kind of report he weanted) and read the section from the\n.INI file and jump to the appropriate code in template - which will then\nopen and read a file pertaining to the section it read from the .INI file.\n\n1. When using the GetProfileString function in WordBasic, is there a way\nto specify/change the default .INI file (which is win.ini) to MyOwn.INI file?\n\n2. When using the file Input$ function in WordBasic - is there a way to\nread more than the 32k at one time?\n\n---\nAny help will be appreciated.", "--> A humble response to a letter by Gordon Lang written 04-21-93 22:09.\n\n\n GL> : I am interrested in the extrodinarily simple concept of the null\n GL> modem : cable. (Actually I have NO idea, so don't count that last\n GL> statement.) What I'm : asking is what pins does it use (or what are\n GL> it's specifications?) I just want : to solder one myself instead of\n GL> buying one. I don't even know what port is : used.\n\nYou may want to save yourself the trouble and go to Radio Shack. They have\na null modem adapter which is a 9 pin connector that swaps the necessary\npins to allow two machines to communicate. These are a lot easier than\nsoldering the connections yourself, and usually a bit more reliable.\n\n... P.E.T.A. People for the Eating of Tasty Animals\n--- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10\n ", "\nI didn't catch your posting one year ago, but I presume you like to leave out\nan extra a-latch ? (I presume you allready know there is a '573 but that couldnt\nbe the question, could it ? ;-)\n\nDuring my student-trainee project, I discouvered a nice device, it's a PSD301 \nfrom Waferscale Integration. In one single (44 PLCC I think it was) package\nit contained: ROM, RAM, I/O lines and a programmable addressdecoder...\n\nAs far as I can recall, it can be hooked directly with a MCS-51 series uP ... \nNeat huh ? But it needs programming before assembly, so it wasn't suitable\nfor my project. Perhaps usefull for you (future) plans ?\n", " For that matter, it shouldn't be that difficult to design a black box\nthat gives off EMR similar to a monitor with gibberish on the screen....\n\n\n\n\n", "\nSpeaking of SIGGRAPH, I just went through the ordeal of my annual registration\nfor SIGGRAPH and re-upping of membership in the ACM last night, and was I ever\ngrossed out! The new prices for membership are almost highway robbery!\n\nFor example:\n\n\tSIGGRAPH basic fee went from $26 last year to $59 this year for the same\n\tthing, a 127% increase. Those facile enough to arrange a trip to the\n\tannual conference could reduce this to $27 by selecting SIGGRAPH Lite,\n\twhich means SIGGRAPH is charging an additional $32 (or so) for the\n\tproceedings and the art show catalog, essentially.\n\n\tTOPLAS went up 40% in cost, way outstripping the current inflation rate.\n\n\tBasic SIGCHI fees remainded the same, but whereas before SIGCHI\n\tmembership included UIST and Human Factors conferences proceedings,\n\tthese are now an extra cost option. Bundling that back into the basic\n\trate, equivalent services have gone up 100% in cost.\n\n\tSIGOIS membership cost has up 33%, but they've also split out the\n\tComputer Supported Cooperative Work conference proceedings that used to\n\tbe included with membership. Adding that cost back in means this SIG\n\talso has doubled its membership fee.\n\nWhat really galls me is that the ACM sent out brochures a couple months ago\ntouting their new approach to providing member services, and tried to make it\nsound like they were offering NEW services. But with the exception of a couple,\nlike SIGGRAPH, all the \"plus\" services appear to be just splitting the costs\ninto smaller piles so that they don't look so big. But their recommended\nchanges to my membership would have me paying 90% more than last year for a 31%\nincrease in services (measured by cost, not by value), and, curiously, a 31%\ninflation rate on the publications I got last year.\n\nIs anyone out there as galled by this extortion as I am?\n________________________________________________________________________________\nRobert Reed\t\t\tHome Animation Ltd.\t\t503-656-8414\nrobert@slipknot.rain.com\t5686 First Court, West Linn, OR 97068\n\nSHOOTING YOURSELF IN THE FOOT IN VARIOUS LANGUAGES AND SYSTEMS", "Ok, this might seem a bit odd.\nHow do check the state of (dip)switches on the mother board of a IBM XT\nWITHOUT using the BIOS.\n\n\t/Thanx", "I have a few the original IBM 10Mb harddisks for sale. They are actually\nSeagate's ST412, MFM, full height, has the IBM logo and black face plate. \n \n Each disk is checked and formatted with DOS 5.0. It can be doubled to \n20Mb or so with dblspace or stacker if you so desire. Have the original IBM\nfoam fitted boxies and anti-static bags. I am not sure if they were ever \nused, but each drive that is sent out will be quarenteed in good working order. \n \n $30 each plus shipping cost, (about $5), ", "In Win 3.1, one may assign hot-keys for the program items within the\nProgram Manager. How about the Program Manager itself? Is there one\nalready, or is there some way to assign one?", "Just a quick summary of recent findings re. high speed modems. Top three\ncontenders seem to be AT&T Paradyne, ZyXEL, and US Robotics. ZyXEL has the\nbiggest \"cult following\", and can be had for under $300, but I ignored it\nbecause I need something with Mac software, which will work without any\ntweaking.\n\nThe AT&T Dataport earns nearly unanimous praises for reliability. They are\nbackordered at the moment, probably because of the special $299 price in\neffect until May. Its fax capabilities are worse than that of the other two\nmodems. WARNING: AT&T ads say that the modem comes with a Mac kit (cables &\nall), and has lifetime warranty. This applies *only* when you order\ndirectly from Paradyne! I called ElekTek (one of the distributors), and\nthey wanted to charge me $16 for cable, and gave only 1 year warranty...\n\nUSR Sportster for the Mac is also highly (but not as highly) recommended;\nit's only $250 from ClubMac, and if you are willing to roll your own cable\nand don't care about the FAXstf software, you can get the generic model\nfrom PC outlets for $190.\n\nAll this assuming that you don't have a rich uncle, and can't afford a\nMotorola Codex... :-( I ended up ordering the Dataport; we'll see how\nit works in two weeks or so.\n", "I have also moved on to a 66.6 mhz clock. Thus far not problems. I'm not totallysurprised as I've had Q700 run at 35.4 mhz (CPU clock speed) using a VSO. My\n25 mhz rated Daystar QuadraCache got very hot at 32 mhz and would fail previously. I glued on a piece of aluminum stock to the hi speed RAM chips and it runs\ncool without problems at 33.3 mhz. The combination is faster than a Q950.\n", "\nUmm, when I was doing sound reinforcement for a living, I used to get direct boxes (which convert\nunbalanced 1/4\" jacks to balanced XLRs) for about $25 each, or a little more for higher\nquality. You'll need two for a stereo signal, of course, and a little adapter thingy from \nRadio Sh#$&^t to convert from RCA to 1/4\". Total cost should be around $50. You can also buy\ntransformers for quite a bit less and wire them yourself. Total cost there should be under $30.\nYou can get all this stuff from any pro music shop that sells sound reinforcement gear.\nThe benefit? NO noise that you can hear will be generated in the cables going to the component\nwith the balanced inputs, even when you run them in bad places, like next to power lines.\n", "The following are available for $7.00 each (includes postage if in USA):", "Hiya all,\n\t\n\tI realise this has little to do with pc's but it does have a lot to do\n\twith hardware....\n\n\tSo, has nay of you heard of a computer called the Connection Machine.\n\tIf so, could you e-mail me any and all info you have,\n\teg- references, ideas etc.\n\n\tAll help is appreciated. \n\n\tCaviar Dreams\n\tL.Cause\n", "Hi!\n\nI am looking for ftp sites (where there are freewares or sharewares)\nfor Mac. It will help a lot if there are driver source codes in those \nftp sites. Any information is appreciated. \n\nThanks in advance.", "Diamond Video cards (stealth, viper, speedstar, etc...) \nmay have excellent specifications, and the windows drivers that\ncome with them might make windows BLINDINGLY fast, BUT:\n\nIf you're considering buying a system, with a view to using\nit to run Unix (Linux, bsd, etc...) or some other special software,\nthere is a good chance that it WILL NOT WORK with the Diamond cards.\nThis is due to Diamond's propriety attitude to it's hardware:\nit's impossible to get free information from them about their chips \n(specifically their dot-clocks) without paying, and signing non-disclosure\nagreements.\n\nThis made it impossible for the Free Software Foundation to provide\nX-Windows compatibility with these cards, as diamond didn't want to \ndivulge programming neccessities.\n\nAs far as I know only Diamond has this propriety on it's info.\n", "\nWhat kind of polygons? Shaded? Texturemapped? Hm? More comes into play with\nfast routines than just \"polygons\". It would be nice to know exaclty what\nsystem (VGA is a start, but what processor?) and a few of the specifics of the\nimplementation. You need to give more info if you want to get any answers! :P\n\n - Ian Romanick\n Dancing Fool of Epsilon", "[Please accept the following announcement for comp.windows.x.announce. -gf]\n\nA completely revamped version of the X11 browser interface to Archie,\nXarchie, is now available as\n\texport.lcs.mit.edu:/contrib/xarchie-2.0.tar.Z\n\nFor those not familar with Archie or Xarchie, I include part of the\nmanpage intro:\n\n Xarchie is an X11 browser interface to the Archie Internet information\n system using the Prospero virtual filesystem protocol. Archie\n provides information about files available for ftp anywhere on the\n Internet; Xarchie displays this information using an easy-to-use,\n point-and-click interface. Xarchie allows you to further explore ftp\n sites by examining directories returned as query matches, and allows\n you to retrieve files located this way.\n\nXarchie 2.0 has been extensively tested on R4, R5, and a variety of\nother flavors of X, and on a wide range of machines. A summary of the\nnew features (from the README) follows:\n\n * Major improvements include:\n - Multiple selections allowed in browser for use with other new\n features (FWF MultiList widget).\n - Ability to expand directories in browser.\n - Real fully-integrated ftp implementation.\n - Ability to save and reload query results, as well as print them.\n - Ability to resort results, and sort results by user-definable\n pseudo-weights.\n - Online help browser.\n - Color resources, done so that they don't break mono displays.\n - FWF FileSelector widget for local file operations.\n - Makefile.dst's supplied for the imake-impaired.\n\nGeorge", "I am looking for a working docking deck (deck that goes on back of\ncamera) for an old JVC GX-S700 Tube video camera. Any format is\nacceptable. Please send me a message if you even know anything about decks\nfor the GX-S700. Also interested in any video equipment for sale,\nprofessional or consumer. Thank you. \n\n----\nbbates@pro-freedom.van.wa.us -==- Pro-Freedom BBS - (206) 694-3276", "\n\n\nI can produce similar artifacts.\n\nI am using a Centris 610 with an Apple 16\" monitor. I got the 8/230/CD\nconfiguration, so there is on-board ethernet and 1 Megabyte of video ram.\nThe effect only occurs in 256 color and 256 grey modes. Any vertical scrolling operation, whether with a scrollbar or, say, using vi and inserting lines,\nwill produce a scattering of horizontal flickering lines on the screen.\nThey do not persist -- each is visible for perhaps one refresh, and then\nthat part of the screen is back as usual.\n\nThey seem to always start at or about the 64th pixel from the left,\nand are maybe 512 pixels wide. This is certainly not preventing me from\nusing my Macintosh ;-), but it does seem to be a sign of something\nperhaps grounded incorrectly in the video circuitry...\n\n\nI went ahead and called the Apple Customer Assistance Center, at:\n 1-800-776-2333, or 1-800-767-2775 (more direct?)\n\nThe person who answered was polite :-). I also took the chance to complain\nabout my mouse button sticking, and about the mac hanging on boot after a\n(hard - killed MacsBug) crash which left a CD in the drive. (I had to play\nwith a paperclip for about 5 minutes to get thing to eject, after which the\nmac booted fine.)", ": A quick and dirty way to get higher current carrying capacity\n: on PC board traces for one- or few-of-a-kind boards is to\n: strip some #14 Romex house wiring cable to bare copper, form\n: the bare copper to follow the trace, and solder it down.\n\nAnd if it's not quick and dirty, you can get bus bars that\nare stamped out with leads that insert in the PC board.", "Does anyone know how to configure a DOS app in Progman\nso that only one instance of it can be running at a time?\n\nI'd really appreciate some help on how to do this. I\nwould prefer responses through email if it's not a big \ndeal, or at least through email _as well as_ posting.\n\nThank you!\n\n--\nJames E. Lee \njelee@hamlet.ucdavis.edu ", "Hi,\n\nxtici worked for my system.\nI'm using X11R5 pl 17 clientside only on a DEC 5000/240 on Ultrix 4.3\nMay be you have a serious floatingpoint compilation problem ?\n", "Forgive me if this is stupid, but didn't I see a rumor somewhere that Apple\nwas working on an Intel platform OS. Say like system 7 for 80X86's?", "\nMine was beautiful for a year and a half. Then it went . I bought\na ViewSonic 6FS instead. Another great monitor, IMHO.\n", "\nBy '8 grey level images' you mean 8 items of 1bit images?\nIt does work(!), but it doesn't work if you have more than 1bit\nin your screen and if the screen intensity is non-linear.\n\nWith 2 bit per pixel; there could be 1*c_1 + 4*c_2 timing,\nthis gives 16 levels, but they are linear if screen intensity is\nlinear.\nWith 1*c_1 + 2*c_2 it works, but we have to find the best\ncompinations -- there's 10 levels, but 16 choises; best 10 must be\nchosen. Different compinations for the same level, varies a bit, but\nthe levels keeps their order.\n\nReaders should verify what I wrote... :-)", "I have a Northern Telecom disk array dated 1987 that has two 253MB drives\nunits in it and I cannot get it formatted. I set the SCSI ID on 1 and my\nsoftware recognizes the unit, but I cannot mount it or anything - do I have\nto use BOTH drives in the array? \n\n\tAny help with these drives or possibly newer software than what I'm using\n(FWB HDT1.0 and 1.1) will be greatly appreciated!\n\n-grey\n", "\n\n Ah... Ok. I didn't realize that you were talking about an Apple\ndivision other than AppleUS. AppleUS, being the main division, is the\none that contains what most people feel are the correct names and\nconfigurations for the majority of Apple customers, and it is generally\nassumed that you are talking about AppleUS when you just say Apple. At\nleast that's how it has always been in this newsgroup. All other Apple\ndivisions are, apparantly, free to change names and configurations if\nthey feel like it. I know that Apple Canada does this kind of stuff all\nthe time. It's not a mistake, it's Apple Sweden giving a different name\nto an Apple product other than what AppleUS calls it.", "\n[...]\n\n ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n\n[...]\n\nMy Problem: I wasn't aware of the fact that I would need an *SCSI*-CD-ROM for\nWindows NT when ordering the Beta-SDK-Package. So my question: Is there any driver\navailable that will allow me to use my Mitsumi (Non-SCSI) CD-ROM for installation ?\nIf there is one, from which place (ftp-site) can I get it ?\n\nMany thanks in advance\n\n\tStefan Kuehnel\n---\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n /\\ Stefan K\"uhnel\n | \n |/ kuehnel@rvs.uni-hannover.de \n |\\ kuehnel@swl.uni-hannover.de (neu ab. 17.04.1993)\n | \n\\/ Die oben wiedergegebene Meinung ist meine private und nicht die \n des RRZN, des LG RVS der UH oder einer anderen Institution. ", "\nI tried the right set and it didn't work. I'm on the phone to their\ntech support right now and the guys doesn't know what a desktop\nrebuild is!!! He's got me holding for someone else...............\nAnd holding, and holding, and holding.", "HELP MY FRIEND AND I HAVE A CLASS PROJECT IN WHICH WE ARE TRYING TO MAKE\n A COMPUTER ANIMATED MOVIE OF SORTS WITH THE DISNEY ANIMATION AND WOULD\n LIKE TO PUT WHAT WE HAVE ON A VCR IS THIS POSSIBLE? IS IT EASY AND\n RELATIVELY CHEAP? IF SO HOW? WE BOTH HAVE 386 IBM COMPATIBLES BUT ARE\n RELATIVELY CLUELESS WITH COMPUTERS IF YOU COULD HELP PLEASE DO.\n\n THANX.\n-- \nBRANT RITTER\n-----------------------------------------------------\nmoshing-- \"a cosmic cesspool of physical delight.\"\n -A. Kiedas\n RHCP", "\n\tHello *.*,\nI'm looking for a good explanation and example of the usefulness of the -S \noption for xterm: slave mode on file descriptor xxx. Sure, but xterm -Sp00\ndoes not seem to grab what arrives on my window. Where is my misunderstan-\nding ? TIA.\nFred.\n ===========================================================================\n Frederic PIERRE. ENSPS/LSIT 7 rue de l'universite F-67000 Strasbourg FRANCE \n Tel: (33) 88 35 80 84 Fax: (33) 88 35 31 76 e-mail: fred@sobel.u-strasbg.fr\n ==========================HamRadio: FC1HFD=================================\n \n", "Try using Laser printer/copier paper, it works quite\nwell and is cheaper than HPspecial paper.\n", "I'm making a customized paint program in DOS and need an algorithm\nfor reading bitmap files like GIF, PCX, or BMP. Does anyone have\nsuch an algorithm? I've tried copying one out of a book for reading\n.PCX format but it doesn't work. I will take an algorithm for any\nformat that can be created from Windows Paint. \nThanks!\nToni\n", "\n\n\nbackdesk.zip is on CICA, but I'm not sure of the whole directory.\n\nAnother to throw into the running is topdesk. It is alsow on CICA, but\nI'm not sure where. It is more complicated then backdesk, but I've found\nit to be more stable and more usefull. I recomend it to people who\nhave already used a virtual desktop. Oh yeh, It's free. \nCopyright Microsoft and Sanford Staab. \n", "I was wondering if what many of you did to accelerate your IIsi's from\n20 MHz to 25 Mhz (and beyond) can be done to a IIci (ie. from 25 MHz to\n32-33 Mhz)?", "\tDoug> NNTP-Posting-Host: se05.wg2.waii.com\n\n\tDoug> NNTP-Posting-Host: se05.wg2.waii.com\n\tDoug> I am having a big problem trying to build MIT X11R5 with xlc 1.2.1\n\tDoug> (the one bundled with AIX 3.2.3e). Its almost the linker is not\n\tDoug> working properly with shared libraries.\n\n\tDoug> I've built X11R5 with no problem before .. but now its all headaches.\n\tDoug> For example, the xset client complains that libXmu doesnt have a bunch\n\tDoug> of Xt routines and shr.o is missing (or something like that). The\n\tDoug> build of libXmu DOES link in libXt so I am really perplexed what is\n\tDoug> going on.\n\n\n\tDoug> ....following up on this, the specific error I get is:\n\tDoug> Could not load program ./xset \n\tDoug> Symbol XtVaSetValues in ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.a is undefined\n\tDoug> Symbol XtName in ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.a is undefined\n\tDoug> Symbol XtWindowOfObject in ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.a is undefined\n\tDoug> Symbol XtGetConstraintResourceList in ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.a is undefined\n\tDoug> Symbol XtDisplayToApplicationContext in ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.a is undefined\n\tDoug> Symbol XtAppSetTypeConverter in ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.a is undefined\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\tDoug> Symbol XtScreenDatabase in ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.a is undefined\n\tDoug> Symbol XtResolvePathname in ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.a is undefined\n\tDoug> Symbol XtCvtStringToFont in ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.a is undefined\n\tDoug> Symbol XtCallConverter in ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.a is undefined\n\tDoug> Symbol XtDisplayStringConversionWarning in ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.a is undefined\n\tDoug> Could not load library libXmu.a[shr.o]\n\tDoug> Error was: Exec format error\n\n\n.... a search on IBMLINK revealed that this is similar to IX33890\n(howervre this was closed USE).", "Hi there,\n\nI am looking for a wide band analog time delay (not phase delay)\nvariable from 200 microseconds to 2 milliseconds.", "\n)Do you know what frequencies chanels 17 to 19 use and what is usually \n)allocated to those frequencies for broadcast outside of cable?\n\n17 is air comm.\n18 is amateur\n19 is business and public service\n", "I recently purchased a Centris 610 and am having difficulty getting\nmy computer to recognize my hard disk drive (external) Using both the\ndisk uitily of TMS (Diskwriter) and Jasmine's software, neither one\nwill show the drive. The drive is the only device connected to the \nscuzzi port. I cant find the manual to the tms pro 120 and seem to\nremember that it is \"terminated\". Is there something else that I am\ndoing (or not doing) that does not allow my 610 to recognize my external\ndisk drive?.\n\nthanks in advance for the information.", "=========================\n=Car Audio System Items:=\n=========================\n\nSony XR-7070 Head Unit (Radio): Pullout\n==============================\n20 W x 4 max. Dolby B. Controls all Sony CD Changers: disc/track\nselect; track/disc scan; repeat; shuffle play. Features auto reverse;\nlogic controls. 6AM/18FM presets; strong station memory; preset scan;\ntuner monitor; seek/manual tuning; mono/stereo and local/dx switches.\nMetal tape compatible. Fader.......Orig $299 \n\n\nSony CDX-A15 10 Disc CD Changer:\n===============================\n4x oversampling, dual D/A converters with single clock design. Features\none-beam laser; spring and silicon-charged suspension system; horizontal\nor vertical mounting; 13-pin DIN connector; 10-disc magazine; connecting\ncable. 5-20,000 Hz; 0.05% THD.......Orig $399\n\n**** ASKING **** $450 for Both the Radio (CD Controller) and the CD Changer.\nThere are no problems with either unit and they are both in reasonably good\ncondition. (The Radio and CD Changers will only be sold TOGETHER.).\n\n\n\n\nTWO (2) Coustic Amp-360:\n========================\n3 Channels; bridgeable. 30w x 2 + 105w X 1 into 4 ohms from 20-20,000 Hz\nwith 0.09% Thd. 1 Channel - 150w x 1 into 4 ohms from 20-20,000 Hz with\n0.2% Thd or 2 Channels - 65w x 2 into 4 ohms from 20-20,000 Hz with 0.09%\nThd. 2 ohm stable. Features pwm switching power supply w/ protection\ncircuits.......Orig $249\n\n**** ASKING **** $150/each. The units are in good working condition and\nare currently being used to supply power to my subs (Can demonstrate\npower ratings!!). \n\n\nIf you are interested in any of the above items, or have any questions\ndrop me some E-Mail.", "I need information on microstrip circuit design especially \nfilter design for the 1-3GHz range. Can you recommend any\ngood books, journals, or microstrip circuit design software.\n.\nall help appreciated", "Just curious why floptical drives never seemed to catch on. Remember\nthose 21 Mb disks that look and feel like 3.5\" floppies? These drives\nare SCSI devices and can read and write both 720 Kb and 1.44/21 Mb\ndisks. Sounds to me to be one great product for the PC market. Are the\nprices really that unaffordable compared to CD-ROMs which are currently\nnot rewritable? I know about the new rewritable CDs and expect SONY to\ndevelop the first MDs for the computer. My question is: why isn't there\nany substantial interest in developing the flopticals?\n\nJust a thought.", "Hi,\nI have got a Quantum ProDrive 80AT IDE harddisk and would\nlike to format it. When trying to format it (*no* low-level\nformat, just FDISK and DOS FORMAT), I somehow messed up the\nparameters... I had entered FDISK /MBR not exactly knowing\nwhat this does.\nThe suggested drive type 38 formats the drive only to 21MB.\nI tried type 25, but this gives only around 70MB and not\nthe nominal 80MB.\nCould I use user type 47? However, I don't know the actual\nparameters (cylinders, heads,...) Could someone give me them?\nAnd how does FDISK work together with user type 47?\nPlease reply by email to GERTHD@MVS.SAS.COM\nThank you,\nThomas\n+-------------------------------------------------------------------+\n+-------------------------------------------------------------------+\n", "Hi,\n I have a piece of X code that compiles fine on pmax-ul4, pmax_mach, as\nwell as sun4_mach, but whenever it compiles on sun4_411, it gives me \nundefined ld errors:\n_sin\n_cos\n_pow\n_floor\n_get_wmShellWidgetClass\n_get_applicationShellWidgetClass\n\nThe following libraries that I linked it to are:\n-lXaw -lXmu -lXt -lXext -lX11\n\nThe makefile is generated off an imake template.\nCan anyone give me pointers as to what I'm missing out to compile on\na sun4_411?", "As the subjects says, Windows 3.1 keeps crashing (givinh me GPF) on me of \nlate. It was never a very stable package, but now it seems to crash every \nday. The worst part about it is that it does not crash consistently: ie I \ncan't reproduce crashes, and they are not always GPF's in the same \napplication. Sometimes I can recover by simply closing the application \nthat caused an error, but other times, windows acts very strange, and I \nneed to re-boot.\n\nSome background: I have a Leading Edge 486sx25 with Phoenix BIOS. When I \nfirst got it it had 4Mg of memory. It ran windows fine (not too many \nGPF's). Then, a couple of weekends ago, I installed Lotus 123 for windows \n(with ATM), a game card and an additional 4 1Mg SIMMS. The Leading edge \nmachine is kind of strange, in that it has the IDE controler built into \nthe motherboard, the CPU is actually on a sparate board that plugs into \nthe motherboard and the SIMMS it uses are Macintosh SIMMS! Apparently I \nwas told that the Leading Edge had the parity bit built into the mother \nboard. The original 4Mg 80ns SIMMS where of the 2 chip variety from \nSAMSUNG, and the ones I installed are 8 chip SIMMS. They are recognized \nfine by the BIOS RAM check. The game card is a generic $20 gamecard.\n\nThe reason why I mention the hardware like this is that sometimes \nrebooting the machine using the reset button or ctl-alt-del still leaves \nthe machine kind of flaky, but turning it on and off doesn't. \n\nI haven't tried taking out the RAM or the game card, because as I said \nthese GPF are not reproducible at will. I have gone through and entire \nday using the computer with no problems and then I might get 5 or so GPF's \nin the sppace of 20 minutes?\n\nWhat can I do. This situation is most annoying... Are there any good \ndiagnostic tools for hardware? Do you think that this might be a software \nproblem (ie EMM386 etc.)? If it helps, i have manage to get GPF's on After \nDark, quicken, Paint shop pro. A lot of them have been in user.exe or \ngdi.exe.\n\nAny help is truly appreciated.....\n\n-Eric", "**********\n\nHitachi CD player (needs cd spin motor) $30 shipped \n\n JoYSTICKS..\n\n\tan IBM/apple joystick three fire buttons\n\tapple joy stick (//c //e)\n\tkraft track ball make offers..\n\ncoleco vision items:\n\n\ttwo working Consoles w/ working controllers in great shape\n\tone roller ball controller\n\ttwo Super ACtion conrollers\n\tone 'standard' joystick\n\ngames:\n\tSA baseball\n\tSA rocky\n\tSA football\n\nVIc 20 and C64 with powersupplies and RF modulators... make an offer\n\nVic20 Catridges: Raid on Fort Knox - Omega Race\n\n******\n\nEarly 80's Epiphone Acoustic guitar\nspruce top.. mohogany back, sides and neck\n\nadjustable bridge, plays very nice\n\nsmall hole in side for jack (had a pickup at one time)\n\n$175 + shipping\n\n******\n\nYamaha CS-5 ANalog synthesizer\n\nThree octave keyboard\n\nVCO - single oscillator range from 64' to 2'\n\nTone sources - Saw tooth, square, noise and external sound \n\nVCA - can be modulated\n\nVCF - Cut off, resonance, LFO MOD, envelope generator depth\n\npitch bend slider, CV in and out, trigger in and out, external\ntone source in... the keyboard is in perfect working order and\nis colored black and white\n\n$150 + shipping\n\n**********\nDRUM stuff..\n\nNorth heavy Duty hi hat stand $45 \n\tolder stand... but definately in working shape.. could\n\tuse a little clean up. comes with clutch and felts, etc..\n\nPearl bass drum pedal with felt beater $20 \n\nhoner cymbal stand $15 (needs some work on cymbal stem)\n\nZildjian 20\" Ride cymbal $55 \n\tmain line zildjian... older ride cymbal\n\nLudwig snare stand $10\n\tokay snare stand.. NOT like a remo though ;) \n\n\nshipping extra.. please email\n\nif you have questions about anything, please email me\n", "Please help.\n\nI have an IBM-compatible notebook computer with an LCD VGA screen. While I\nwas working with it this morning, the screen started to flicker a little,\nwhich I thought was odd since I do use a surge-protector for my computer and\nall peripherals. It only did this for a second and then stopped.\n\nI left the room for several minutes and, when I returned, the screen was\ncompletely dim, not blank, but very very dim. The contrast slider still\nworked so that I could adjust it to where I could *faintly* make out what\nwas on the screen but the brightness slider had absolutely *no* effect.\n\nI was plugged-in at the time (i.e., not using the battery) but I still\ntried switching the battery, changing the power-saver features, etc., etc.,\nall to no avail.\n\nHas anyone else experienced anything like this? If this just means that I\nneed to replace the screen then I guess I'll have to but I thought that the\n\"death\" of my LCD screen would be a little less dramatic when it eventually\nhappened. I didn't want to take it in to be repaired before I asked on the\nnet about this because I already know what they'll say: \"Yep, you gotta have\nthis replaced and it's gonna cost you $???.\"\n\nI've only had the computer for about 21 months. Is that a reasonable life\ncycle for a LCD display? Oh, I guess I ought to give specifics here: the\nbrand is Compudyne (Is this a reputable company?), it's a 386SX @ 20 MHz.\nI forget the model number exactly and I was too ticked off to write it down\nbefore coming in to work today.\n\nIf anyone can help me, PLEASE give me any advice you might have. I'm not\nopposed to having it replaced, but I'd rather not if it's not absolutely\nnecessary. If you wouldn't mind, please e-mail me at mike@mik.uky.edu\nbut if you'd rather post I'll be checking back here in a couple of days.\n\nBTW, if the answer to this question is already in a FAQ somewhere, feel\nfree to flame away but I would ask that you also include the location and\nname of the FAQ if you don't mind.\n\nThanks in advance for any help...", "Hello all,\n\nI'd like to know, how z-modem-upload is initiated in a WinQVT-Script-file,\nto check how it works before registering.\nUnfortunatly, nothing about that feature is mentioned in the manual.\nCan anybody help me?", "I have a few the original IBM 10Mb harddisks for sale. They are actually\nSeagate's ST412, MFM, full height, has the IBM logo and black face plate. \n \n Each disk is checked and formatted with DOS 5.0. It can be doubled to \n20Mb or so with dblspace or stacker if you so desire. Have the original IBM\nfoam fitted boxies and anti-static bags. I am not sure if they were ever \nused, but each drive that is sent out will be quarenteed in good working order. \n \n $30 each plus shipping cost, (about $5), ", "\nAs far as I know, there is no way to get around the BIOS password except by \nshorting out the power supply to the CMOS memory, thereby erasing it. This \nwill remove the password, but it will also destroy all the previous BIOS \nsettings, so then you'll have to go and set them all up again. On my 386, \nthere is a jumper on the motherboard which is provided for the purpose of \nshorting the battery. You just short this jumper briefly, and it interrupts \npower to the CMOS long enough to erase it. I would imagine there is \nsomething like this on your board too. \n\nIn the future, I would suggest that YOU set the password, and leave it on \n\"Setup\" only. That way, no-one else can go and reset it or set it to \"\nAlways\" unless they know what password you used. They had to do this over \nhere too when they got a bunch of new 386's, for just the same reason.\n\n-Dale", "\nThat isn't enough to change your Windows startup logo. vgalogo.rle is not \nneeded after you have installed Windows. It is incorporated as a part of \nwin.com.\n\tTo make a new win.com, you have to concatinate three files together, \nusing the /b option for a binary concatonation. I beleive it is\n\ncopy /b win.cnf+vgalogo.lgo+vgalogo.rle mywin.com\n\nMake sure you backup your win.com file in anotehr directory before you do this \n-- I absent-mindedly typed win.com instead of mywin.com and had to resinstall \nWindows!\n\tAnyway, substitute whatever .RLE file you want. The win.cnf has the \ninfo needed to start Windows (think of it as a bootstrap) and vgalogo.vga has \nvideo information. Just make sure that the .RLE file doesn't tip the whole \nCOM file size over the 64k limit of a .COM file!\n\tSo anyway, I use mywin.com to startup MS Windows. Now instead of that \nannoying Micro$oft advertisment, I have the Joker (yes, from Batman) taking \nyoru picture from the screen, saying \"Smile!\" Also a little bit of text: \n\"Micro$oft Windows: The world's first commercially sucessful virus.\" I added \nthat because of the frequency of crashes. \n\nRob", "\n steps deleted\n{> ...\n{> \n{> It's an interesting idea, but the worst-case data patterns developed to\n{> test magnetic media are totally different than the patterns used to detect\n{> common faults in memory chips.\n{> \nI was having major memory problems a few monthes ago.\ngetting parity error - system halted error message in windows.\nI ran QA/PLUS, Check It, Diagnose, as well as several shareware\nmemory checkers. I had a total of 8 meg SIMM in my system.\nthese store bought/ shareware memory diagnostics either ran fine\nwithout errors or found an error at some address that I couldn't\nplace on a memory chip. Out of exahperation I came up with\nthe (now deleted) steps to find bad memory chips. I found 2\n(moral : never buy memory stamped \"not for sensitive or critical \napplications\" on the back.\n anyway I did filter out all the bad memory chips using \ncombinations of 4 of the 8 meg chips and creating a RAM drive to\ntest on. Although it dodn't alleviate my parity error problems\nin windows. I did manage to find bad memory chips in this manner\nIt has NEVER failed to find a bad chip for me. and the commercial/\nshareware have always faild me either not finding the error or\npointing to an addreww which I have no idea on what chip it is.\n\np.s. man my typing stinks today and I don't feel like futzing around with \nthis line editor.\n\n -David\n\n=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=", ":Read the xterm's manual pages for more informations about the avaliable\n:actions of xterm. Read the FAQ and get a good book on customizing your\n:X applications.\n\nOkay, I will byte. Could someone provide more info on a 'good book on\ncustomizing your X applicaitons'? I am in search of one which does NOT\nexpect the reader to have the X11 source code memorized (or even available\nonline!)\n", "I'm thinking about getting a Toshiba 3401 CD-ROM and hooking it up\nthrough the SCSI port on a Media Vision Pro Audio Spectrum sound board.\nDoes anybody have this configuration out there? If so, does it work?\n\nFor anybody in general who has the Toshiba 3401 CD-ROM drive, have you\nhad any hadware problems? Door not opening, scratched disks, door not\nclosing (getting stuck or not closing all the way), CD holder jamming\nand any other CD related problems.\n\nThanks in Advance", "\n\nI can only comment on thermal recalibration in general. Some new\ndrives perform it in order to increase overall integrity of data\nwrites. Basically, the firmware instructs the actuator to perform\na test to see if the data tracks are within a certain physical\ntolerance, since when the media heats up or cools down, *some*\ntrack drift is inevitable, and the drive has to monitor it. This\nbecomes especially critical at very high recording densities, and\nso was used primarily on very large-capacity mechanisms, but it\nseems to be finding its way into more smaller drives as a way of\nboosting the drive's long-term reliability and MTBF ratings.\n\nI first became aware of thermal recalibration when it was pointed\nout that the technique conflicts with prolonged write times when\ndigitizing, say, audio or video to hard disk. Some manufacturers\nexplicitly state that drives with thermal recalibration are NOT\nto be used for applications that have prolonged disk writes.\n\nHope this helps.", "I was wondering if anyone out there has had the same problem I am having with\nmy Gateway 2000 486-33DX VL-Bus system with ATI Graphics Ultra Pro LB. \nWhen I have my computer in any resolution other than 800x600, everything is\nfine, but whenever I use it in 800x600 (Windows, AutoCAD, GIFs) the screen \ngets about 1 1/2 inches shorter. At the very top and very bottom of the screen\nthere is about a 3/4\" bar of black. The screen isn't cut off, it just squeezes\neverything into the smaller space and messes up the aspect ratio. While I can\nmanually change the V-Size on the back, this is a pain in the ass, and it just\nshouldn't happen anyway. I've called Gateway numerous times and they haven't \nbeen able to help me at all. Two different times they sent me a new card, and\nboth times the new card didn't work at all in my computer. They even tried\nto bill me for the first card because they didn't get it back in a couple of\ndays, when they TOLD me over the phone that they would wait more than 2 weeks\nbefore billing my card. But their customer support is a different story...\nSo, if anyone has had this same problem, please let me know if you know what\nto do. Hell, let me know if you don't have a solution, just so I know I'm\nnot the only one with this problem. Thanks in advance.\n\nJude M. Greer\njmgree01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu", "HELLO,\nI HAVE SOME PROBLEMS WITH MY DIAMOND STEALTH LOCAL BUS GRAPHIC CARD.\nWHEN I TRY TO START WINDOWS MY SYSTEM STOP AND DISPLAY:\n\"NO FREE FILES HANDLES,CANNOT LOAD COMMAND,SYSTEM HALTED\"\nIT'S PERHAPS A BIOS SETUP PROBLEM BUT I'M NOT USED TO MY AMI-BIOS SETUP\nIF SOMEBODY CAN EXPLAIN ME;HOW TO SETUP SHADOW VIDEO ROM, OTHERS \nSHADOW ROM ,AND ALSO HOW TO CONFIG THE TWO \"ADVENCED ... SETUP\"\nFOR A BEST UTILISATION OF MY GRAPHIC CARD.\nTHANKS FOR ANY ANSWER.\nCH.ROBERT\n", "Don A.B. Lindbergh meinte am 15.04.93\nzum Thema \"Diamond SS24X, Win 3.1, Mouse cursor\":\n\nDA> Anybody seen mouse cursor distortion running the Diamond 1024x768x256 \nDA> driver? Sorry, don't know the version of the driver (no indication in the \nDA> menus) but it's a recently delivered Gateway system. Am going to try the \nDA> latest drivers from Diamond BBS but wondered if anyone else had seen this.\n\nNo not at all. I'm using SS24X with BIOS 2.03 and driver\nfrom 13. Januar '93. I've never had any problems with the\nmouse cursor.\nIs there already a newer driver published?\n\n\nGreetings\n\n Sebastian Beer", "\n\nNow to make it perfect apple ought to run right out and license\nthe voice of a certain Mrs. Roddenberry for the speech synthesizer....", "Hi there,\nI have a mac 512 with a burned out part which looks like a voltage\nregulator. The part number is BU 406 and I believe the vender is\nSGS thomas judging by teh SGS logo printed on the package. If anyone\nhas teh spec for this part I would greatly appreciate an email with\nthe import info so I can find a replacement. Thanx in advance.\n\n-Dave\ndnewman@lynx.northeastern.edu", "While playing around with my Gateway 2000 local-bus machine last\nnight, it became apparent that Windows 3.1 didn't give the option\nfor 32-bit access for virtual memory.\n\nI am using a permanent swap file, and the disk drive is on the local\nbus interface.\n\nIs this expected, or should I be investigating further why no 32-bit\noption appears?\n\nThanks for any help.\n\n--", "For Sale:\n\n Tektronix 4208 Color Terminal\n Tektronix 4510A Rasterizer\n Tektronix 4692 InkJet Printer\n\n Tektronix 4692 Printer Extras (all Tektronix products):\n\n Paper (> 3 boxes)\n Transparencies (> 2 boxes)\n Maintenance Cartridges (2 cart)\n Magenta Ink Cartridge (1 cart)\n\n We would like to sell as a single lot, and preference\n will be given to offers for the entire list. All offers\n accepted, best offer gets the equipment.\n\n -- Bob", "Hi,\n I am looking to buy an accelerated video card for my 486 DX 50 with\t\nISA bus. I have a 14\" SVGA NI monitor. I'm currently running\nDOS 5.0 and windows 3.1, although I'm considering OS/2 in the\t\nfuture. Can anyone make a suggestion for a video card that would\nsuit my needs? How is Diamond speedstar? Stealth? Etc....\n\t\t\t\tThanks.\n\t\t\t\t\t--Kent\n", "\n\n\nBut, but, but... How does buying an external modem solve the problem\nof wanting more than 2 serial devices at once? And since the PC\nonly supports two, why are you blaming a modem vendor for the\nproblem? I don't see how your experience could have been different\nwith any internal modem. ", "(Martin Vuille) writes...\n\n\n\tPCMCIA\n\t1030G East Duane St\n\tSunnyvale, CA 94086 USA\n\t408-720-0107\n\n\tSee also:\n\talt.periphs.pcmcia", "I have a UREI 527A 27-band (mono) Equilizer for sale. Anyone who knows\nthis unit knows it's been a recording studio standard for years. It's a\npretty straightforward unit, with balanced ins and outs. Power supply caps\nwere recently replaced, and I added XLR connectors (which can be easily\nremoved if you prefer, as I mounted them on a bracket outside the case). \nThe unit is in good shape, and is sonically very clean.\n\nI'm asking $225 + UPS shipping. They're going for $250 generally. Make me\nan offer. \n", "hi,\n\ntry DontZap in /usr/lib/X11/Xconfig\n\ncu\n\tstyx\n", "\nThe third-party media adapters are usually cheaper (at least in Toronto) than\nApple's. I bought the adapters from Asante instead of Apple.\n\n\nThat's not true. Only the DECstation 5000/200 comes with a Thinwire\n(BNC, coaxial) Ethernet connector. The 5000/25, 5000/133 and 5000/240\nall have a single 15-pin AUI Ethernet connector only. I distinctly\nremembered this because when got the 5000/200 first and I thought all\nof them are going to be Thinwire. I eventually had to go back and ordered\nDESTAs (DEC's oversized version of an AUI-to-BNC adapter that MUST be used\nwith a transciever cable) for the rest of the stations.\n\nMy advise to the very original poster (Beverly?) is:\n\n(1) If all you want is to create a LAN with two workstations and won't add\n machines to it EVER, go for Thinwire regardless of the media type. Going\n for UTP (unshielded twisted pair) wiring requires a concentrator which\n means extra money and I believe these units come with at least 6 ports.\n As for Thicknet, it's a nightmare and cabling is expensive. Avoid it\n unless you have no choice (e.g. the two machines are two floors parts).\n\n(2) On the Mac side, you will need:\n - one Thinwire media adapter (from Apple or third-party).\n - MacX (make sure you get version 1.2; 1.1.7 won't run on System 7.1).\n - MacTCP (which comes with MacX; if you get MacX v1.2, you should be\n getting MacTCP v1.1.1 with it. Don't use earlier versions on a Centris).\n - you may or may not need a 25ohm terminator depending on the\n Thinwire media adapter. So just ask the sales if the adapter is\n self-terminated or not.\n - configure MacTCP to use \"Ethernet\".\n\n(3) On the DECstation side, you will need:\n - for a Model 200, you will only need a T-connector.\n - for Models 25, 125, 133, 240, you will need an AUI-to-BNC adapter.\n Get one that can be plugged in directly to the AUI port of the\n DECstation. This way you save the cost of a transciever cable\n (a 15-pin AUI male to a 15-pin AUI female cable).\n - get a 25ohm terminator.\n\nYour two-machine network will look like this:\n\n\n ##T----------------------------------------------[]\n +-----+ |\n | | |\n +-----+ +-----+\n | |\n +-----+\n DECstation Centris\n 5000/200 650\n OR\n\n ##T----------------------------------------------[]\n {=} |\n +-----+ |\n | | +-----+\n +-----+ | |\n +-----+\n DECstation Centris\n5000/25,125,133,240 650\n \n ## -> 25ohm terminator\n T -> T connector\n --- -> Thinwire (RG58 coaxial cable)\n {=} -> AUI-to-BNC (i.e. Thick-to-Thin) adapter\n [] -> Thickwire media adapter (assuming self-terminated)\n |\n |\n\nAndy", " Help!! I need code/package/whatever to take 3-D data and turn it into\na wireframe surface with hidden lines removed. I'm using a DOS machine, and\nthe code can be in ANSI C or C++, ANSI Fortran or Basic. The data I'm using\nforms a rectangular grid.\n Please post your replies to the net so that others may benefit. IMHO, this\nis a general interest question.\n Thank you!!!!!!\n", "\nThe May 1993 cover of QST has a picture of three different boards without\nany solder mask (you can tell from the copper colored traces). The box\nlabeled 2304 transverter has the brown teflon/glass board, while the one\nin the center has the grayish board exposed. On the left is some \nfiberglass board that looks green to me. I see no reason\nfor putting solder mask on circuit board used for box covers :-).\n\nI wonder if any manufacturer actually puts a solder mask on their\nlow noise microwave preamps? Often, microwave circuits have odd\nbits of wire/foil/metal attached to wherever/whatever is necessary\nto make the unit work properly (this is a commercial product?). A\nsolder mask would certainly make doing this tougher, never mind \nthe finding something that minimally degrades the circuits. (Q dope\nfor coils *does* not improve the Q--it just holds things together with\nminimal loss).\n\nZack Lau KH6CP/1\n\nInternet: zlau@arrl.org \"Working\" on 24 GHz SSB/CW gear \n\t\t\t Operating Interests: 10 GHz CW/SSB/FM\nUS Mail: c/o ARRL Lab\t\t\t\t 80/40/20 CW\n\t225 Main Street\t\t Station capability: QRP, 1.8 MHz to 10 GHz\n\tNewington CT 06111\t modes: CW/SSB/FM/packet\n\t\t\t\t\t\t amtor/baudot\nPhone (if you really have to): 203-666-1541\n\nZack Lau KH6CP/1\n\nInternet: zlau@arrl.org \"Working\" on 24 GHz SSB/CW gear \n\t\t\t Operating Interests: 10 GHz CW/SSB/FM\nUS Mail: c/o ARRL Lab\t\t\t\t 80/40/20 CW\n\t225 Main Street\t\t Station capability: QRP, 1.8 MHz to 10 GHz\n\tNewington CT 06111\t modes: CW/SSB/FM/packet\n\t\t\t\t\t\t amtor/baudot\nPhone (if you really have to): 203-666-1541", "Hi all,\nI am looking into methods I can use to turn my Linux based BBS into a full color\nGraphical BBS that supports PC, Mac, Linux, and Amiga callers. \nOriginally I was inspired by the NAPLPS graphics standard (a summary of \nwhich hit this group about 2 weeks ago). \nFollowing up on software availability of NAPLPS supporting software I find\nthat most terminal programs are commercial the only resonable shareware one being\nPP3 which runs soley on MSDOS machines leaving Mac and Amiga users to buy full\ncommercial software if they want to try out the BBS (I know I wouldn't)\n\nNext most interesting possibility is to port MGR to PC, Mac, Amiga. I know there\nis an old version of a Mac port on bellcore.com that doesn't work under System 7\nBut I can't seem to find the source anywhere to see if I can patch it.\n\nIs there a color version of MGR for Linux? \nI know there was an alpha version of the libs out last year but I misplaced it.\n\nDoes anyone on this group know if MGR as been ported to PC or Amiga ?\nI can't seem to send a message to the MGR channel without it bouncing.\n\nDoes anyone have any other suggestions for a Linux based GUI BBS ?", "I have heard many things about the ATI Ultra Pro card. Some have\nbeen positive but most are negative. Could people please confirm\nthese? (I am interested in the EISA version in particular).\n\n1) The card does not work in a system with 32M RAM.\n\n2) The card works in a 32M system with some switches\n set but it is much slower.\n\n3) The card is _interlaced_ in its 24bit (true-colour) modes.\n\n4) The latest build 59 drivers still do not work in many\n cases.\n\n5) This card is the fastest full colour card for the money.\n\n6) This card is the greatest thing since sliced bread. ;-)\n\nThanks for your feedback. I will summarize.\n\nAl\n", "\n\n\n\nThe last I heard, the author was having some problems in his immediate\nfamily and had delayed the continuation of development for a time.\nThis was some months ago.\n\nIt's a shame. The driver is the best memory manager I have found\nANYWHERE. It doesn't require V8086 mode (like QEMM) so it works with\nUltima 7. It doesn't take ANY memory (runs, then exits).\n\nIf only the EMM provider were a little faster and more stable.\n\n\n--\ntmcreek@eos.ncsu.edu \\ These views respresent no one. / Now you\ncreek-tm@aza.csc.ncsu.edu \\ Even I won't claim them. / are here", "\nThe best program I've seen for viewing such files is VPIC. You'll want version 5.9 or later. (6.0x is current.) It allows you to view in 15 and 24 bit modes. It really is QUITE nice.\n\nNow, for a return question: Do you run Windows? If so, what are the dates on your drivers? The newest ones *I* can find are from around 4-??-92!! My problem is they conflict with Star Trek: After Dark, and other things as well. I'm willing to bet that it's the drivers, and NOT the programs. Anyone out there have info on newer SS24 (NOT X) drivers for windows or OS/2?", "I have a Hewlett-Packard LaserJet Series II Paper Tray for sale.\nIts letter size (8.5 - 11), brand new in the box and never used.\nI'm asking $40.00 (bought new at Ballard Computer for $65.95)", "\n\n\nJUst use xloadimage instead (or xli).", ": As far as I can tell, the MD is an offshoot of technology that already exists.\n: It is an MO drive. MO drives exist already for computers. They're expensive\n: and a bit slow, but the disks are cheep (128 mb disks). Dan.\n\nI read a recent article in Personal Computer World mainly about the new\ndigit audion formats (DCC and MD) but at the end talked about how nice\nit would be to use these for data storage with a brief calculation of\nhow much data you could store. The author had been talking to someone\nfrom Sony about these formats and mentioned this to get the reply \"MD\nis a purely audio format, we wouldn't use it for data\", then when\npressed for info about MO the Sony man basically admitted that it was\nno more than a slight adaptabtion on MD!\n\nWhat I think the original poster was wanting was MO drives at MD audio\nplayer prices. I'd assume that the problem here is that an MD system\ncan have higher tolerances than an MO system as the ear doesn't pick up\nthe occasional bit error as well as an archiving program!\n\n--", "\n\n\n\n\nWell it looks as if Digi-Key sells a chip with the number ICL232 that does what\nyou want. They are selling it for about $3.50...\n\nHope this helps...\nFrank\n\n-- \n\n**************************************************************************\n* Customer asked \"What's that thing?\". *\n* I answered chuckling \"Well, it's a highly technical, sensitive *\n* instrument I use in computer repair! Being a layman, you probably *\n* cann't grasp exactly what it does. I call it a B.F.H..... *\n* Frank W. Holden - KA3UWW - \"The Radio Doctor\" *\n* - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - | - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - *\n* SnailMail: | Inter-Net: *\n* 685 Addison St. | frankh@scraps.pittsburgh.sgi.com *\n* Washington, Pa. 15301-5601 | Packet:ka3uww@n3idi.#wpa.pa.usa.na *\n**************************************************************************\nDISCLAIMER: - I confess, you did it!!!\n-- ", "\nHow about brass or silver? I've seen real chessboards that use that material.\n\n\nRight here is as good a place as any. Can't wait to see it. I use the POV\nraytracer - is it compatible enough for your chessboard?\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n \"I don't know if you've got the whole picture or not, but it doesn't \n seem like he's running on all thrusters!\" -- Leonard McCoy\n\n \"A guess? You, Spock? That's extraordinary!\" -- James T. Kirk", "Is there a way to connect a PowerBook 145, Mac IIsi, and Personal LaserWriter\nLS so that I can (not necessarily silmultaneoulsy) print from either the IIsi,\nor PB, and file share between the IIsi and PB?\nI know I can get the ($expensive$) LW NT upgrade for my LS, but I can't afford\nthat...", "Now available: xvertext 4.0 \n--------------\n\nSummary \n-------\nxvertext provides you with four functions to draw strings at any angle in \nan X window (previous versions were limited to vertical text). Rotation \nis still achieved using XImages, but the notion of rotating a whole font\nfirst has been dropped.\n\nWhat's new?\n-----------\nI've added a cache which keeps a copy of previously rotated strings - thus\nspeeding up redraws.\n\nWhere can I get it? \n-------------------\ncomp.sources.x (soon...)\nexport.lcs.mit.edu : contrib/xvertext.4.0.shar.Z (now)\n", "Archive-name: x-faq/part2\nLast-modified: 1993/04/04\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 24)! How do I make a screendump or print my application?\n\n\tThe xwd client in the X11 distributions can be used to select a window \nor the background. It produces an XWD-format file of the image of that window. \nThe file can be post-processed into something useful or printed with the xpr \nclient and your local printing mechanism. You can use this command:\n\t\tcsh% sleep 10; xwd -root > output.xwd &\nand then spend 10 seconds or so setting up your screen; the entire current\ndisplay will be saved into the file output.xwd. Note that xwd also has an\nundocumented (before R5) -id flag for specifying the window id on the \ncommand-line. [There are also unofficial patches on export to xwd for \nspecifying the delay and the portion of the screen to capture.]\n\n\tTwo publicly-available programs which allow interactive definition of \narbitrary portions of the display and built-in delays are asnap and xgrabsc.\nThere are several versions of xgrabsc; version 2.2, available on export [8/92]\nis the most recent.\n\txsnap includes some asnap features and supersedes it; it also renders \nXPM output [version unknown]. It is available on export or avahi.inria.fr;\nsee xsnap-pl2.tar.Z.\n\tA screen-dump and merge/edit program combining features of xwd and xpr\nis available from vernam.cs.uwm.edu as xdump1.0.tar.Z. Information: \nsoft-eng@cs.uwm.edu.\n\txprint, by Alberto Accomazzi (alberto@cfa.harvard.edu) is available\nfrom cfa0 (128.103.40.1) in xprint.export-2.1.tar.Z.\n\n\tTo post-process the xwd output of some of these tools, you can use xpr,\nwhich is part of the X11 distribution. Also on several archives are xwd2ps\nand XtoPS, which produce Encapsulated PostScript with trimmings suitable for \nuse in presentations (see export.lcs.mit.edu:contrib/xwd2ps.tar.Z and\ncontrib/ImageMagick.tar.Z). Also useful is the PBMPLUS package on many archive\nservers; and the Xim package contains Level 2 color PostScript output.\n\n\tThe XV program can grab a portion of the X display, manipulate it, and\nsave it in one of the available formats. ImageMagick has similar capabilities.\n\n\tAlso: \n\n\tBristol Technology (info@bristol.com, 203-438-6969) offers Xprinter \n2.0, an Xlib API for PostScript and PCL printers; a demo is on ftp.uu.net\nin vendor/Bristol/Xprinter.\n\n\tColorSoft 9619-459-8500) offers OPENprint package includes a screen-\ncapture facility, image-processing, and support for PostScript and \nnon-PostScript printers.\n\n\tSome vendors' implementations of X (e.g. DECWindows and OpenWindows) \ninclude session managers or other desktop programs which include \"print portion\nof screen\" or \"take a snapshot\" options. Some platforms also have tools which \ncan be used to grab the frame-buffer directly; the Sun systems, for example, \nhave a 'screendump' program which produces a Sun raster file. Some X terminals \nhave local screen-dump utilities to write PostScript to a local serial printer.\n\n\tSome vendors' implementations of lpr (e.g. Sony) include direct \nsupport for printing xwd files, but you'll typically need some other package \nto massage the output into a useful format which you can get to the printer.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 25) How do I make a color PostScript screendump of the X display?\n\n\tIf you need color PostScript in particular, you can \n\t- grab the screen-image using a program which can produce color \nPostScript, such as xgrabsc and xv \n\t- grab the screen-image using xwd and post-process xwd into color PS.\nYou can do this using xwd2ps or the XtoPS program from the ImageMagick \ndistribution. The PBMPLUS package is also good for this, as is the Xim package.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 26) How do I make a screendump including the X cursor?\n\n\tThis can't be done unless the X server has been extended. Consider \ninstead a system-dependent mechanism for, e.g., capturing the frame-buffer.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 27) How do I convert/view Mac/TIFF/GIF/Sun/PICT/img/FAX images in X?\n\n\tThe likeliest program is an incarnation of Jef Poskanzer's useful++ \nPortable Bitmap Toolkit, which includes a number of programs for converting \namong various image formats. It includes support for many types of bitmaps, \ngray-scale images, and full-color images. PBMPLUS has been updated recently;\nthe most recent version [12/91] is on export in contrib/pbmplus10dec91.tar.Z.\n\tAnother tool is San Diego Supercomputing Center's IMtools ('imconv' in \nparticular), which packages the functionality of PBM into a single binary.\nIt's available anonymous ftp from sdsc.edu (132.249.20.22).\n\n\tUseful for viewing some image-formats is Jim Frost's xloadimage, a\nversion of which is in the R4 directory contrib/clients/xloadimage; there are \nlater versions available, including contrib/xloadimage.3.03.tar.Z on export. \nGraeme Gill's updates to an earlier version of xloadimage are also on export; \nsee xli.README and xli.tar.Z.uu; version 1.14 was released 2/93.\n\n\txv (X Image Viewer), written by bradley@cis.upenn.edu (John Bradley), \ncan read and display pictures in Sun Raster, PGM, PBM, PPM, X11 bitmap, TIFF, \nGIF and JPEG. It can manipulate on the images: adjust, color, intensity, \ncontrast, aspect ratio, crop). It can save images in all of the aforementioned \nformats plus PostScript. It can grab a portion of the X display, manipulate on \nit, and save it in one of the available formats. The program was updated 5/92; \nsee the file contrib/xv-2.21.tar.Z on export.lcs.mit.edu.\n\n\tThe Fuzzy Pixmap Manipulation, by Michael Mauldin .\nConversion and manipulation package, similar to PBMPLUS. Version 1.0 available\nvia FTP as nl.cs.cmu.edu:/usr/mlm/ftp/fbm.tar.Z, uunet.uu.net:pub/fbm.tar.Z, \nand ucsd.edu:graphics/fbm.tar.Z.\n\n\tThe Img Software Set, by Paul Raveling , reads\nand writes its own image format, displays on an X11 screen, and does some image\nmanipulations. Version 1.3 is available via FTP on expo.lcs.mit.edu as\ncontrib/img_1.3.tar.Z, along with large collection of color images.\n\n\tThe Utah RLE Toolkit is a conversion and manipulation package similar \nto PBMPLUS. Available via FTP as cs.utah.edu:pub/urt-*, \nweedeater.math.yale.edu:pub/urt-*, and freebie.engin.umich.edu:pub/urt-*.\n\n\tXim, The X Image Manipulator, by Philip Thompson, does essential \ninteractive displaying, editing, filtering, and converting of images. There is \na version in the X11R4 contrib area; but a more recent version (using R4 and \nMotif 1.1) is available from gis.mit.edu (18.80.1.118). Xim reads/writes gif, \nxwd, xbm, tiff, rle, xim, (writes level 2 eps) and other formats and also has a\nlibrary and command-line utilities for building your own applications.\n\n\tImageMagick [2.3; 2/93] by cristy@dupont.com can be retrieved from \nexport's contrib area. It is a collection of utilities to transform and display\nimages on any X server. The tool uses the MIFF format; filters to and from MIFF\nfrom other popular formats (PPM, TIFF, GIF, SUN Raster, etc) are included.\n\n\txtiff is a tool for viewing a TIFF file in an X window. It was written\nto handle as many different kinds of TIFF files as possible while remaining\nsimple, portable and efficient. xtiff illustrates some common problems\nwith building pixmaps and using different visual classes. It is distributed\nas part of Sam Leffler's libtiff package and it is also available on\nexport.lcs.mit.edu, uunet.uu.net and comp.sources.x. [dbs@decwrl.dec.com,10/90]\nxtiff 2.0 was announced in 4/91; it includes Xlib and Xt versions.\n\n\tA version of Lee Iverson's (leei@McRCIM.McGill.EDU) image-viewing tool\nis available as contrib/vimage-0.9.3.tar.Z on export.lcs.mit.edu. The package \nalso includes an ImageViewPort widget and a FileDialog widget. [12/91;5/92] \n\n[some material from Larry Carroll (larryc@poe.jpl.nasa.gov), 5/91]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 28) How can I change the titlebar of my xterm window?\n\n\tThe solution involves sending an escape sequence to xterm which will\ncause it to update the property which the window manager relies upon for the\nstring which appears in the window titlebar.\n\tA solution is as easy as typing this in an xterm running a shell:\n\t\techo \"ESC]2;TEXT^G\"\nwhere ESC is the escape key, TEXT is the string you wish to have displayed,\nand ^G is a Control-G (the BEL character).\n\n\tHere is a more complicated csh alias which changes the titlebar to\nthe current working directory when you change directories:\n\t\talias newcd 'cd \\!*; echo -n ESC]2\\;$cwd^G'\n\n\tThe digit '2' in these strings indicates to xterm that it should \nchange only the title of the window; to change both the title and the name \nused in the icon, use the digit '0' instead, and use '1' to change only the \nicon name.\n\n\tNote: another way to do this, which prevents an incorrect display of\nthe local directory if a modified `cd` is used in a subshell, is to wrap the\nescape sequences into the PS1 prompt itself.\n\n\tNote: on an IBM RS/6000 is may be necessary to begin the sequence with\na ^V.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 29) Where can I find the xterm control sequences?\n\nThe best source of such information is in your R5 sources in the file \nctlseqs.ms; a PostScript version is in mit/hardcopy/clients/ctlseqs.PS.Z.\n\nO'Reilly's Volume 3, the X User's Guide, includes an R5 version of the control \nsequences; the standard volume will be available 3/93, and a Motif version of \nthe book is available now. The current (R4) guide includes an outdated version\nof the control sequences. [1/93]\n\nOther good sources of information include the R4 version of that document\nand also the file in the R4 sources called mit/clients/xterm/ctlseq2.txt, a \ncompilation put together by Skip Montanaro (GE CR&D) listing the VT100 \nsequences. It dates from R3 but is fairly accurate. A hardcopy version was \npublished in the December 1989 XNextEvent (the XUG newsletter).\n\nIn a pinch, a VT100 manual will do.\n\n[last updated 10/91]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 30)- Why does the R3 xterm, et al, fail against the R4 server?\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 31) How can I use characters above ASCII 127 in xterm ?\n\n\tIn order to use special characters such as the o-umlaut, you need to \n\"stty pass8\" but also to use a charcell ISO8859 font, such as \n\tXTerm*font: \t-*-*-medium-r-normal-*-*-130-*-*-c-*-iso8859-1\n\tXTerm*boldfont:\t-*-*-bold-r-normal-*-*-130-*-*-c-*-iso8859-1\n[The family is intentionally unspecified in this example.]\n\nIn addition, you may want to set this in your shell:\n\tsetenv LC_CTYPE iso_8859_1\n\n For a given character above 127, you can determine the key to use with \nthe Alt modifier by finding the equivalent character below 127 (try using\n`man ascii`). For example, o-umlaut (v) is Alt-v and the section character (') \nis Alt-'. \n\n[thanks to Greg Holmberg (greg%thirdi@uunet.uu.net) and Stephen Gildea \n(gildea@expo.lcs.mit.edu); 6/92]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 32) Why are my xterm menus so small?\n\n\tYou are probably setting the geometry small accidentally. If you give \na resource specification like this:\n\t\txterm*geometry: 80x24\nthen you are asking for all widgets under xterm to have their geometry set to\n80x24. For the main window, this is OK, as it uses characters for its size. \nBut its popup menus don't; they are in pixels and show up small. To set only\nthe terminal widget to have the specified geometry, name it explicitly:\n\t\txterm*VT100.geometry: 80x24\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 33) How can I print the current selection?\n\n\tYou could paste it into an xterm after executing the lpr command. \nHowever, a program by Richard Hesketh (rlh2@ukc.ac.uk) specifically for \nmanipulating the selection will help; e.g. \n\t% xselection PRIMARY | lpr\nfinds the primary selection and prints it. This command can be placed in a \nwindow-manager menu or in shell-scripts. xselection also permits the setting of\nthe selection and other properties. A version is on export.\n\tAlso available is ria.ccs.uwo.ca:pub/xget_selection.tar.Z, which can be\nadapted to do this.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 34) How does Xt use environment variables in loading resources?\n\n\tYou can use several environment variables to control how resources are \nloaded for your Xt-based programs -- XFILESEARCHPATH, XUSERFILESEARCHPATH, and \nXAPPLRESDIR. These environment variables control where Xt looks for \napplication-defaults files as an application is initializing. Xt loads at most\none app-defaults file from the path defined in XFILESEARCHPATH and another from\nthe path defined in XUSERFILESEARCHPATH.\n\n\tSet XFILESEARCHPATH if software is installed on your system in such a \nway that app-defaults files appear in several different directory hierarchies.\nSuppose, for example, that you are running Sun's Open Windows, and you also \nhave some R4 X applications installed in /usr/lib/X11/app-defaults. You could \nset a value like this for XFILESEARCHPATH, and it would cause Xt to look up \napp-defaults files in both /usr/lib/X11 and /usr/openwin/lib (or wherever your\nOPENWINHOME is located):\n\tsetenv XFILESEARCHPATH /usr/lib/X11/%T/%N:$OPENWINHOME/lib/%T/%N\n\nThe value of this environment variable is a colon-separated list of pathnames. The pathnames contain replacement characters as follows (see \nXtResolvePathname()):\n\n %N The value of the filename parameter, or the\n application's class name.\n %T The value of the file \"type\". In this case, the\n literal string \"app-defaults\"\n %C customization resource (R5 only)\n %S Suffix. None for app-defaults.\n %L Language, locale, and codeset (e.g. \"ja_JP.EUC\")\n %l Language part of %L (e.g. \"ja\")\n %t The territory part of the display's language string\n %c The codeset part of the display's language string\n\n\tLet's take apart the example. Suppose the application's class name is \n\"Myterm\". Also, suppose Open Windows is installed in /usr/openwin. (Notice the \nexample omits locale-specific lookup.)\n\t/usr/lib/X11/%T/%N means /usr/lib/X11/app-defaults/Myterm\n\t$OPENWINHOME/lib/%T/%N means /usr/openwin/lib/app-defaults/Myterm\n\n\tAs the application initializes, Xt tries to open both of the above \napp-defaults files, in the order shown. As soon as it finds one, it reads it \nand uses it, and stops looking for others. The effect of this path is to \nsearch first in /usr/lib/X11, then in /usr/openwin.\n\n\tLet's consider another example. This time, let's set \nXUSERFILESEARCHPATH so it looks for the file Myterm.ad in the current working \ndirectory, then for Myterm in the directory ~/app-defaults.\n\tsetenv XUSERFILESEARCHPATH ./%N.ad:$HOME/app-defaults/%N\n\n\tThe first path in the list expands to ./Myterm.ad. The second expands \nto $HOME/app-defaults/Myterm. This is a convenient setting for debugging \nbecause it follows the Imake convention of naming the app-defaults file \nMyterm.ad in the application's source directory, so you can run the application\nfrom the directory in which you are working and still have the resources loaded\nproperly. NOTE: when looking for app-default files with XUSERFILESEARCHPATH,\nfor some bizarre reason, neither the type nor file suffix is defined so %T and\n%S are useless.\n\n\tWith R5, there's another twist. You may specify a customization \nresource value. For example, you might run the \"myterm\" application like this:\n\tmyterm -xrm \"*customization: -color\"\n\n\tIf one of your pathname specifications had the value\n\"/usr/lib/X11/%T/%N%C\" then the expanded pathname would be\n\"/usr/lib/X11/app-defaults/Myterm-color\" because the %C substitution character \ntakes on the value of the customization resource.\n\n\tThe default XFILESEARCHPATH, compiled into Xt, is:\n\t\t/usr/lib/X11/%L/%T/%N%C:\\ (R5)\n\t\t/usr/lib/X11/%l/%T/%N%C:\\ (R5)\n\t\t/usr/lib/X11/%T/%N%C:\\ (R5)\n\t\t/usr/lib/X11/%L/%T/%N:\\\n\t\t/usr/lib/X11/%l/%T/%N:\\\n\t\t/usr/lib/X11/%T/%N\n\n\t(Note: some sites replace /usr/lib/X11 with a ProjectRoot in\nthis batch of default settings.)\n\n\tThe default XUSERFILESEARCHPATH, also compiled into Xt, is \n\t\t/%L/%N%C:\\ (R5)\n\t\t/%l/%N%C:\\ (R5)\n\t\t/%N%C:\\ (R5)\n\t\t/%L/%N:\\\n\t\t/%l/%N:\\\n\t\t/%N:\n\n\t is either the value of XAPPLRESDIR or the user's home directory \nif XAPPLRESDIR is not set. If you set XUSERFILESEARCHPATH to some value other \nthan the default, Xt ignores XAPPLRESDIR altogether.\n\n\tNotice that the quick and dirty way of making your application find \nyour app-defaults file in your current working directory is to set XAPPLRESDIR \nto \".\", a single dot. In R3, all this machinery worked differently; for R3 \ncompatibilty, many people set their XAPPLRESDIR value to \"./\", a dot followed \nby a slash.\n\n[Thanks to Oliver Jones (oj@world.std.com); 2/93.]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 35) How to I have the R4 xdm put a picture behind the log-in window?\n\nThe answer lies in changing xdm's xrdb resource in the xdm-config file to run a\nprogram to change the background before loading the resources; for example, \nyour /usr/lib/X11/xdm/xdm-config file may add the line \n\tDisplayManager.0.authorize: false \nto permit unrestricted access to the display before log-in (beware!) and also \n\tDisplayManager*xrdb:\t/usr/lib/X11/xdm/new.xrdb\nwhere that file does something (for all connections) along the lines of:\n\t#!/bin/sh\n\t#comes in with arguments: -display :0 -load /usr/lib/X11/xdm/Xresources\n\t/usr/bin/X11/xsetroot -display $2 -bitmap /usr/lib/X11/xdm/new.bitmap\n\t/usr/bin/X11/xrdb $*\nSubstitute xloadimage or xv for xsetroot, to taste. Note that this is a \ngeneral hack that can be used to invoke a console window or any other client.\n\n[Thanks to Jay Bourland (jayb@cauchy.stanford.edu), 9/91]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 36) Why isn't my PATH set when xdm runs my .xsession file?\n\n\tWhen xdm runs your .xsession it doesn't source your .cshrc or .login\nfiles. You can set the path explicitly as you normally could for any SH script;\nor you can place all environment-setting statements in a separate file and\nsource it from both the .xsession file and your shell configuration file; or,\nif you set your PATH in your .cshrc file, the normal place, you can make your \n.xsession have PATH set simply by making it a csh script, i.e. by starting\nyour .xsession file off with \"#!/bin/csh\". \n\tIf this doesn't work, also try starting off with:\n\t\t#!/bin/sh\n\t\t# Reset path:\n\t\tPATH=`csh -c 'echo $PATH'` ; export PATH\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 37) How do I keep my $DISPLAY when I rlogin to another machine?\n\n\tThere are several ways to avoid having to do a \"setenv DISPLAY ...\"\nwhenever you log in to another networked UNIX machine running X.\n\tOne solution is to use the clients/xrsh on the R5 contrib tape. It \nincludes xrsh, a script to start an X application on remote machine, and\nxrlogin, a script to start a local xterm running rlogin to a remote machine.\nA more recent version is on export in xrsh-5.4.shar.\n\tOne solution is to use the xrlogin program from der Mouse\n(mouse@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu). You can ftp caveat-emptor versions from\n132.206.1.1, in X/xrlogin.c and X/xrlogind.c. The program packages up $TERM and\n$DISPLAY into a single string, which is stuffed into $TERM. rlogin then \npropagates $TERM normally; your .cshrc on the remote machine should contain\n\t\teval `xrlogind`\nwhere xrlogind is a program that checks $TERM and if it is of the special \nformat it recognizes, unpacks it and spits out setenv and unsetenv commands to \nrecreate the environment variables. [11/90]\n\n\tIn addition, if all you need to do is start a remote X process on \nanother host, and you find\n\t\trsh -n /usr/bin/X11/xterm -display $DISPLAY \ntoo simple (DISPLAY must have your real hostname), then this version of xrsh \ncan be used to start up remote X processes. The equivalent usage would be \n\t\txrsh xterm\n\n #! /bin/sh\n # start an X11 process on another host\n # Date: 8 Dec 88 06:29:34 GMT\n # From: Chris Torek \n # rsh $host -n \"setenv DISPLAY $DISPLAY; exec $@ &/dev/null\"\n #\n # An improved version:\n # rXcmd (suggested by John Robinson, jr@bbn.com)\n # (generalized for sh,ksh by Keith Boyer, keith@cis.ohio-state.edu)\n #\n # but they put the rcmd in ()'s which left zombies again. This\n # script combines the best of both.\n \n case $# in\n [01]) echo \"Usage: $0 host x-cmd [args...]\";;\n *)\n \tcase $SHELL in\n \t*csh*) host=\"$1\"; shift\n \t\txhost \"$host\" > /dev/null\n \t\trsh \"$host\" -n \\\n \t\t\t\"setenv TERM xterm; setenv DISPLAY `hostname`:0; \\\n \t\t\texec $* & /dev/null\" &\n \t\t;;\n \t*sh)\n \t\thost=\"$1\"; shift\n \t\txhost \"$host\" > /dev/null\n \t\trsh \"$host\" -n \\\n \t\t\t\"TERM=xterm export TERM; \\\n \t\t\tDISPLAY=`hostname`:0 export DISPLAY; \\\n \t\t\tLD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/X11/lib export LD_LIBRARY_PATH; \\\n \t\t\tPATH=\\$PATH:/usr/X11/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/local/bin; \\\n\t\t\texport PATH; \\\n \t\t\texec $* < /dev/null > /dev/null 2>&1\" &\n \t\t;;\n \tesac\n \t;;\n esac\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 38) How can I design my own font?\n\n\tOne way is to use the \"bitmap\" client or some other bitmap-editor (e.g.\nSun's icon-editor tool, post-processed with pbmplus) to design the individual \ncharacters and then to do some large amount of post-processing to concatenate \nthem into the BDF format. See Ollie Jones's article in the November 91 X \nJournal for more information.\n\tThe R3 contrib/ area (in fonts/utils/ and in clients/xtroff) contained \na number of useful utilities, including some to convert between BDF font format\nand a simple character format which can be edited with any text editor.\n\tAn easier way is to use the \"xfed\" client to modify an existing font; a\nversion is on the R4 or R5 X11R5 contrib tape in contrib/clients/xfed. Xfed is \navailable for anonymous ftp on ftp.Informatik.Uni-Dortmund.DE [129.217.64.63], \npossibly as file /pub/windows/X/Diverse-X11-Sourcen/xfed.tar.Z. It can produce\nBDF-format fonts which can be compiled for a variety of X servers.\n\tThe xfedor client from Group Bull permits creation of bitmaps, cursors,\nXPM1 pixmaps, and fonts. Binaries for common machines are on avahi.inria.fr in\n/pub; in addition, the sources (an old Xlib implementation) have been placed \n[5/91] in export:/contrib. \n\tIf you are a MetaFont user you can use \"mftobdf\" from the SeeTeX\ndistribution to convert PK, GF, and PXL fonts to BDF format; the distribution\nis on ftp.cs.colorado.edu and on export.lcs.mit.edu.\n\tThe GNU package fontutils-0.4.tar.Z on prep.ai.mit.edu includes xbfe,\na font editor, and a number of utilities for massaging font formats.\n\tThe O'Reilly X Resource issue #2 contains an article on using these\ntools to modify a font.\n\tFonts can be resized with Hiroto Kagotani's bdfresize; a new version is\nin ftp.cs.titech.ac.jp:/X11/contrib.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 39) Why does adding a font to the server not work (sic)?\n\n\tAfter you have built the font using your system's font-compiler, \ninstalled it in some directory, and run `mkfontdir` or your system's equivalent\n(e.g. bldfamily for OpenWindows) in that directory, be sure to use `xset +fp \n$dir` to add that full path-name to the server's font-path, *or* if the \ndirectory is already in the path, use `xset fp rehash` so that the new fonts in\nthat directory are actually found; it is this last step that you're probably \nleaving out. (You can also use `xset q` to make sure that that directory is in \nthe path.)\n\tSometimes your \"xset +fp $dir\" command fails with a BadValue error:\n\t\tX Error of failed request:BadValue\n\t\t\t(integer parameter out of range for operation)\n\t\tMajor opcode of failed request: 51 (X_SetFontPath)\n\n\tThis means the X server cannot find or read your font directory, or\nthat your directory does not look like a font directory to the server. (The\nmention of an \"integer parameter\" in the message is spurious.)\n\n-- Is the font directory you're specifying readable from the SERVER's file\n system? Remember, it's the server, not the client, which interprets your\n font directory. Trouble in this area is especially likely when you issue an\n xset command with shell metacharacters in it (e.g. \"xset +fp ~/myfonts\") and\n the server is an X terminal or managed by xdm.\n\n-- Is the directory really a font directory? If you're running an MIT server\n (or most varieties of vendor servers) look in the directory for the file\n \"fonts.dir\". If you can't find that file, run mkfontdir(1). (If you're\n running OpenWindows, look for the file \"Families.list\". If you can't find\n it, run bldfamily(1).)\n\n-- If you're in a site where some people run X11Rn servers and others run a\n proprietary server with nonstandard font formats (OpenWindows, for\n example), make sure the font directory is right for the server you're using.\n Hint: if the directory contains .pcf and/or .snf files, it won't work for\n Open Windows. If the directory contains .ff and/or .fb files, it won't work\n for X11Rn.\n\n[thanks to der Mouse (mouse@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu) and to Oliver Jones \n(oj@pictel.com); 7/92 ]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 40) How do I convert a \".snf\" font back to \".bdf\" font?\n\n\tA tool called \"snftobdf 1.4\" is part of the bdftools package, which is \navailable from export.lcs.mit.edu:contrib/bdftools.tar.Z and from \ncrl.nmsu.edu:pub/misc/bdftools.tar.Z. [2/91]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 41) What is a general method of getting a font in usable format?\n\n\tder Mouse's getbdf is one solution; it connects to a server and \nproduces a .BDF file for any font the server is willing to let it. It can be \nused as an anything-to-BDF converter, but requires access to a server that can \nunderstand the font file, thus is both more and less powerful than other tools \nsuch as snftobdf. getbdf is on 132.206.1.1 in X/getbdf.c or available via mail \nfrom mouse@larry.McRCIM.McGill.EDU. [5/91]\n\tIn addition, the R5 program \"fstobdf\" can produce bdf for any font that\nthe R5 server has access to.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 42) How do I use DECwindows fonts on my non-DECwindows server?\n\n\tThe DECwindows fonts typically don't exist on a non-DEC installation,\nbut rewrite rules can be used to alias fonts used by DECwindows applications to\nstandard MIT fonts of similar characteristics and size. Pick up the file \ncontrib/DECwindows_on_X11R4_font.aliases from export.lcs.mit.edu; this file is \nfor a standard MIT R4 server. It can also serve as a starting point for \ncreating a similar aliases file for the Open Windows server or other servers \nwhich do not use the MIT font scheme.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 43) How do I add \".bdf\" fonts to my DECwindows server?\n\n\tThe format of fonts preferred by DEC's X server is the \".pcf\" format.\nYou can produce this compiled format from the .bdf format by using DEC's dxfc\nfont-compiler. Note that the DEC servers can also use raw .bdf fonts, with a\nperformance hit.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 44)! How can I set backgroundPixmap in a defaults file? (What is XPM?)\nI want to be able to do something like this:\n\txclock*backgroundPixmap: /usr/include/X11/bitmaps/rootweave\n\n\tYou can't do this. The backgroundPixmap resource is a pixmap of the \nsame depth as the screen, not a bitmap (which is a pixmap of depth 1). Because \nof this, writing a generic String to Pixmap converter is impossible, since \nthere is no accepted convention for a file format for pixmaps. Therefore, \nneither the X Toolkit or the Athena widget set define a String to Pixmap \nconverter, because there is no converter you cannot specify this value as a \nresource. The Athena widget set does define a String to Bitmap converter for \nuse in many of its widgets, however.\n[courtesy Chris D. Peterson (now kit@ics.com), 4/90]\n\nHowever:\n\tA specific converter which encapsulates much of the functionality of \nthe xloadimage package by Jim Frost was posted 12/90 by Sebastian Wangnick \n(basti@unido.informatik.uni-dortmund.de); it permits loading of a number of \nimage formats as a pixmap.\n\n\tThe leading general-purpose format for pixmaps is the XPM format used \nby Groupe Bull in several of its programs, including the GWM window manager, by\nAT&T in its olpixmap editor, and by ICS in its interface builder. XPM \ndistribution, available on export as contrib/xpm.tar.Z, includes read/write \nroutines which can easily be adapted to converters by new widgets which want to\nallow specification of pixmap resources in the above manner. See information\non the xpm-talk mailing list above. XPM 3.0f was announced in 3/93 and is\navailable from export.lcs.mit.edu and avahi.inria.fr; an older version is on \nthe R5 contrib tape. [A set of XPM icons collected by Anthony Thyssen \n(anthony@kurango.cit.gu.edu.au) is on export in contrib/AIcons.]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 45) Why can't I override translations? Only the first item works.\n\n\tYou probably have an extra space after the specification of the first \nitem, like this:\n\tbasic*text.translations: #override \\\n\tCtrla: beginning-of-line() \\n\\ \t\n\tCtrle: end-of-line()\n\t\t\t\t\t ^ extra space\nThe newline after that space is ending the translation definition.\n[Thanks to Timothy J. Horton, 5/91]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 46) How can I have xclock or oclock show different timezones?\n\n\tOne solution is xchron, in Volume 6 of comp.sources.x, which can show\nthe time for timezones other than the local one. \n\tAlternatively, you can probably set the timezone in the shell from\nwhich you invoke the xclock or oclock, or use a script similar to this:\n\t#!/bin/sh\n\tTZ=PST8PDT xclock -name \"San_Luis_Obispo_CA\" 2> /dev/null &\n\tTZ=EST5EDT xclock -name \"King_Of_Prussia_PA\" 2> /dev/null &\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 47) I have xmh, but it doesn't work. Where can I get MH?\n\n\tThe xmh mail-reader requires the Rand MH mail/message handling system,\nwhich is not part of the UNIX software distribution for many machines. A list \nof various ftp, uucp, e-mail and US-mail sites for both xmh and MH is given in \nthe monthly MH FAQ; one source is ics.uci.edu in the file pub/mh/mh-6.7.tar.Z.\nIf you do not receive the comp.mail.mh newsgroup or the MH-users mailing list, \nyou can request a copy of the FAQ, which also includes a section on xmh, \nby sending mail to mail-server@pit-manager.mit.edu containing the request\n\"send usenet/news.answers/mh-faq\".\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 48) Why am I suddenly unable to connect to my Sun X server?\nAfter a seemingly random amount of time after the X server has been started, no\nother clients are able to connect to it.\n\n\tThe default cron cleanup jobs supplied by Sun (for 4.0.3, at least)\ndelete \"old\" (unreferenced) files from /tmp -- including /tmp/.X11-unix, which \ncontains the socket descriptor used by X. The solution is to add \"! -type s\" to\nthe find exclusion in the cron job.\n[10/90]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 49) Why don't the R5 PEX demos work on my mono screen?\n\nThe R5 sample server implementation works only on color screens, sorry.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 50)! How do I get my Sun Type-[45] keyboard fully supported by Xsun?\n \nMany users wants the Num Lock key to light the Num Lock LED and have the \nappropriate effect on the numeric keypad. The Xsun server as distributed by MIT\ndoesn't do this but there are two different patches available.\n \nThe first patch is written by Jonathan Lemon and fixes the Num Lock related \nproblems. It is available from export.lcs.mit.edu in the file\ncontrib/Xsun-R5.numlock_patch.Z .\n \nThe second is written by Martin Forssen and fixes the Num Lock and Compose keys\nand adds support for the different national keyboard layouts for Type-4 and \nType-5 keyboards. This patch is available from export.lcs.mit.edu in\ncontrib/sunkbd1216-0314.tar.Z or via email from maf@dtek.chalmers.se.\n \n[thanks to Martin Forssen (maf@dtek.chalmers.se or maf@math.chalmers.se), 8/92]\n\nA set of patches by William Bailey (dbgwab@arco.com) was posted to newsgroups\n11/92 to provide support for the Type-5 keyboard.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 51) How do I report bugs in X?\n\n\tGenerally, report bugs you find to the organization that supplied you\nwith the X Window System. If you received the R5 source distribution directly \nfrom MIT, please read the file mit/bug-report for instructions. [Look in\nmit/doc/bugs/bug-report in R4.]\n\n[Thanks to Stephen Gildea , 5/91; 12/91]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 52) Why do I get \"Warning: Widget class version mismatch\"?\n\n\tThis error, which typically goes on to say, \"widget 11004 vs. \nintrinsics 11003\" indicates that the header files you included when building \nyour program didn't match the header files that the Xt library you're linking \nagainst was built with; check your -I include path and -L link-path to be sure.\n\tHowever, the problem also occurs when linking against a version of the \nX11R4 Xt library before patch 10; the version number was wrong. Some Sun OW\nsystems, in particular, were shipped with the flawed version of the library, \nand applications which link against the library typically give the warnings you\nhave seen.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 53) Where can I find a dictionary server for xwebster?\n\n\tWebster's still owns the copyright to the on-line copies of Webster's\nDictionary which are found at various (university) sites. After it became aware\nthat these sites were then acting as servers for other sites running xwebster \nand gnuemacs-webster, it asked that server sites close off external access.\n\t[The NeXT machine apparently is also licensed to have the dictionary. A\nWebster daemon for NeXT machines is available from iuvax.cs.indiana.edu \n(129.79.254.192) in \"pub/webster/NeXT-2.0\".]\n\tUnless you want to get a legal on-line copy yourself or can find a site\nwhich can grant you access, you are probably out of luck. \n\n\tHowever, if you are a legitimate site, you'll want to pick up the\nlatest xwebster, as-is on export:contrib/xwebster.tar.Z [10/91]; the file \nxwebster.README includes discussions of the availability, illegality, and \nnon-availability of dictionary servers. \n\t\n[courtesy steve@UMIACS.UMD.EDU (Steve Miller) and mayer@hplabs.hp.com (Niels \nMayer) 11/90]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 54) TOPIC: OBTAINING X AND RELATED SOFTWARE AND HARDWARE\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 55) Is X public-domain software?\n\n\tNo. The X software is copyrighted by various institutions and is not \n\"public domain\", which has a specific legal meaning. However, the X \ndistribution is available for free and can be redistributed without fee.\n\tContributed software, though, may be placed in the public domain by\nindividual authors.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 56) How compatible are X11R3, R4, and R5? What changes are there?\n\nThe Release Notes for each MIT release of X11 specify the changes from the \nprevious release. The X Consortium tries very hard to maintain compatibility \nacross releases. In the few places where incompatible changes were necessary, \ndetails are given in the Release Notes. Each X11 distribution site on the \nnetwork also offers the Release Notes that go with the release they offer; the \nfile typically can be found at the top of the distribution tree.\n\n[Stephen Gildea, 1/92]\n\nThe comp.windows.x.intrinsics FAQ-Xt lists Xt differences among these versions.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 57)! Where can I get X11R5 (source and/or binaries)?\n\nInformation about MIT's distribution of the sources on 6250bpi and QIC-24 tape \nand its distribution of hardcopy of the documents is available from \nSoftware Center, Technology Licensing Office, Massachusetts Institute of \nTechnology, 28 Carleton Street, Room E32-300, Cambridge MA 02142-1324,\nphone: 617-258-8330.\n\nYou will need about 100Mb of disk space to hold all of Core and 140MB to hold\nthe Contrib software donated by individuals and companies. \n\nPLEASE use a site that is close to you in the network.\n\nNote that the RELEASE notes are generally available separately in the same\ndirectory; the notes list changes from previous versions of X and offer a\nguide to the distribution.\n\n\t\t\t North America anonymous FTP:\n\nCalifornia\tgatekeeper.dec.com\t\tpub/X11/R5\n\t\t16.1.0.2\nCalifornia\tsoda.berkeley.edu\t\tpub/X11R5\n\t\t128.32.131.179\nIndiana\t\tmordred.cs.purdue.edu\t\tpub/X11/R5\n\t\t128.10.2.2\nMaryland\tftp.brl.mil\t\t\tpub/X11R5\n\t\t128.63.16.158\n\t\t(good for MILNET sites)\nMassachusetts\tcrl.dec.com\t\t\tpub/X11/R5\n\t\t192.58.206.2\nMassachusetts\texport.lcs.mit.edu\t\tpub/R5\n\t\t18.24.0.12\n\t\t(crl.dec.com is better)\nMichigan\tmerit.edu\t\t\tpub/X11R5\n\t\t35.1.1.42\nMissouri\twuarchive.wustl.edu\t\tpackages/X11R5\n\t\t128.252.135.4\nMontana\t\tftp.cs.montana.edu\t\tpub/X.V11R5\n\t\t192.31.215.202\nNew Mexico\tpprg.eece.unm.edu\t\tpub/dist/X11R5\n\t\t129.24.24.10\nNew York\tazure.acsu.buffalo.edu\t\tpub/X11R5\n\t\t128.205.7.6\nNorth Carolina\tcs.duke.edu\t\t\tdist/sources/X11R5\n\t\t128.109.140.1\nOhio\t\tftp.cis.ohio-state.edu\t\tpub/X.V11R5\n\t\t128.146.8.52\nOntario\t\tftp.cs.utoronto.ca\t\tpub/X11R5\n\t\t128.100.1.105\nWashington DC\tx11r5-a.uu.net\t\t\tX/R5\n\t\t192.48.96.12\nWashington DC\tx11r5-b.uu.net\t\t\tX/R5\n\t\t137.39.1.12\n\n\t\t Europe/Middle East/Australia anonymous FTP:\n\nAustralia\tmunnari.oz.au\t\t\tX.V11/R5\n\t\t128.250.1.21\nDenmark\t\tfreja.diku.dk\t\t\tpub/X11R5\n\t\t129.142.96.1\nUnited Kingdom\tsrc.doc.ic.ac.uk\t\tgraphics/X.V11R5\n\t\t146.169.3.7\n\t\thpb.mcc.ac.uk\t\t\tpub/X11r5\n\t\t130.88.200.7\nFinland\t\tnic.funet.fi\t\t\tpub/X11/R5\n\t\t128.214.6.100\nFrance\t\tnuri.inria.fr\t\t\tX/X11R5\n\t\t128.93.1.26\nGermany\t\tftp.germany.eu.net\t\tpub/X11/X11R5\n\t\t192.76.144.129\nIsrael\t\tcs.huji.ac.il\t\t\tpub/X11R5\n\t\t132.65.6.5\nItaly\t\tghost.sm.dsi.unimi.it\t\tpub/X11R5\n\t\t149.132.2.1\nNetherlands\tarchive.eu.net\t\t\twindows/X/R5\n\t\t192.16.202.1\nNorway\t\tugle.unit.no\t\t\tpub/X11R5\n\t\t129.241.1.97\nNorway\t\tnac.no\t\t\t\tpub/X11R5\n\t\t129.240.2.40\nSwitzerland\tnic.switch.ch\t\t\tsoftware/X11R5\n\t\t130.59.1.40\n\n\t\t\t Japan anonymous FTP:\n\nKanagawa\tsh.wide.ad.jp\t\t\tX11R5\n\t\t133.4.11.11\nKwansai\t\tftp.ics.osaka-u.ac.jp\t\tX11R5\n\t\t133.1.12.30\nKyushu\t\twnoc-fuk.wide.ad.jp\t\tX11R5\n\t\t133.4.14.3\nTISN\t\tutsun.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp\t\tX11R5\n\t\t133.11.11.11\nTokyo\t\tkerr.iwanami.co.jp\t\tX11R5\n\t\t133.235.128.1\nTokyo\t\tscslwide.sony.co.jp\t\tpub/X11R5\n\t\t133.138.199.1\n\n\t\t\t\tUUCP:\n\nuunet\t\tfor UUNET customers\t\t~/X/R5\ndecwrl\t\texisting neighbors only\t\t~/pub/X11/R5\nosu-cis\t\t\t\t\t\t~/X.V11R5\n\t\t(not online until ~ 9 Sept)\nutai\t\texisting neighbors only\t\t~/ftp/pub/X11R5\nhp4nl\t\tNetherlands only\t\t~uucp/pub/windows/X/R5\n\t\t\n\n\n\t\t\t\t NFS:\nMissouri\twuarchive.wustl.edu\t\t/archive/packages/X11R5\n\t\t128.252.135.4\t\t\tmount point: /archive\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t AFS:\nPennsylvania\t/afs/grand.central.org/pub/X11R5\n\n\t\t NIFTP (hhcp, cpf, fcp, ...):\nUnited Kingdom\tuk.ac.ic.doc.src\t\t\n\t\t00000510200001\n\t\tuser \"guest\"\n\n\t\t\t anon FTAM:\nUnited Kingdom\t000005102000 (Janet)\t\tX.V11R5\n\t\t146.169.3.7 (Internet)\n\t\t204334504108 (IXI)\n\n\t\t\t ACSNet:\nAustralia\tmunnari.oz (fetchfile)\t\tX.V11/R5\n\t\tPlease fetch only one file\n\t\tat a time, after checking\n\t\tthat a copy is not available\n\t\tat a closer site.\n\n[9/2/91; updated for contrib 10/91]\n\nAnyone in Europe can get a copy of the MIT X.V11R5 distribution, including\nthe core and contributed software and all official patches, free of charge.\nThe only requirement is to agree to return the tapes, or equivalent new tapes.\nOnly QIC and TK format cartridges can be provided. Contact: Jamie Watson,\nAdasoft AG, Nesslerenweg 104, 3084 Wabern, Switzerland.\nTel: +41 31 961.35.70 or +41 62 61.41.21; Fax: +41 62 61.41.30; jw@adasoft.ch.\n\nUK sites can obtain X11 through the UKUUG Software Distribution Service, from \nthe Department of Computing, Imperial College, London, in several tape formats.\nYou may also obtain the source via Janet (and therefore PSS) using Niftp (Host:\nuk.ac.ic.doc.src Name: guest Password: your_email_address). Queries should be \ndirected to Lee McLoughlin, 071-589-5111#5037, or to info-server@doc.ic.ac.uk \nor ukuug-soft@uk.ac.ic.doc (send a Subject line of \"wanted\". Also offered are \ncopies of comp.sources.x, the export.lcs.mit.edu contrib and doc areas and most\nother announced freely distributable packages. \n\nX11R5 and X11R4 source along with X11R5 contrib code, prebuilt X binaries for\nmajor platforms, and source code examples from O'Reilly's books is available on\nan ISO-9660-format CD-ROM from O'Reilly & Associates. [as of 3/92].\n\nX11R5 source is available on ISO-9660-format CD-ROM for members of the Japan\nUnix Society from Hiroaki Obata, obata@jrd.dec.com.\n\nX11R5 source along with GNU source, the comp.sources.x archives, and SPARC\nbinaries is available on an ISO-9660-format CD-ROM from PDQ Software,\n510-947-5996 (or Robert A. Bruce, rab@sprite.Berkeley.EDU).\n\nX11R5 source is available from Automata Design Associates, +1 215-646-4894.\n\nVarious users' groups (e.g. SUG) offer X sources cheaply, typically on CD-ROM.\n\nSource for the Andrew User Interface System 5.1 and binaries for common systems\nare available on CD-ROM. Information: info-andrew-requests@andrew.cmu.edu,\n412-268-6710, fax 412-621-8081.\n\nBinaries for X11R5, with shared libX11 and libXmu, for A/UX 2.0.1 are now \navailable from wuarchive.wustl.edu:/archive/systems/aux/X11R5. Patches for \nX11R5 compiled with gcc (but not shared libraries) are also available.\n[John L. Coolidge (coolidge@cs.uiuc.edu, 10/91)]\n\nBinaries by Rich Kaul (kaul@ee.eng.ohio-state.edu) for the Sun386i running \nSunOS 4.0.2 are available on dsinc.dsi.com (please only after-hours USA EST).\n\nBinaries for the Sun386i are available from compaq.com (131.168.249.254) in\npub/sun-386i/sources and from vernam.cs.uwm.edu (129.89.9.117).\n\nA binary tree for the Next by Douglas Scott (doug@foxtrot.ccmrc.ucsb.edu) is on\nfoxtrot.ccmrc.ucsb.edu; it is missing the server, though.\n\nBinaries for the Sun386i are in vernam.cs.uwm.edu:/sun386i.\n\nBinaries for the HP-PA are on hpcvaaz.cv.hp.com (15.255.72.15).\n\nSource and binaries for HP-UX 8.*/9.0(S300/400/700/800) and Domain 10.4 (68K,\nDN 10K) are available through the Interworks Users Group; contact Carol Relph\nat 508-436-5046, fax 508-256-7169, or relph_c@apollo.hp.com.\n\nPatches to X11R5 for Solaris 2.1 by Casper H.S. Dik (casper@fwi.uva.nl) et al\nare on export in contrib/{R5.SunOS5.patch.tar.Z,R5.SunOS5.patch.README}.\n\nPatches to X11R5 for the Sun Type 5 keyboard and the keyboard NumLock are \navailable from William Bailey (dbgwab@arco.com).\n\nAlso:\n\nBinaries are available from Unipalm (+44 954 211797, xtech@unipalm.co.uk), \nprobably for the Sun platforms. \n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n\nDavid B. Lewis \t\t\t\t\tfaq%craft@uunet.uu.net\n\n\t\t\"Just the FAQs, ma'am.\" -- Joe Friday ", "I have a Windows 3.1 package for sale. New stil in shrink wrapped. I am\nasking for $35. I will consider to trade a used 1.44M floppy drive. Leave\na message if interested.\n\n", "Distribution: usa\nReply-To: lihan@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu\n\nWhile I'm on the net bugging everyone, is there such a thing as a chip\nor chipset to decode Code 39 barcode? I ask for a couple of reasons --\nmainly I want a reasonably compact encoding scheme to write information\non magstripe cards and Code 39 appears to be about right. (If the 'right'\nway to do it is something else, and it's reasonably easy, can someone let\nme know?)\n\nI might not get a chance to reply too quickly to this or my earlier post,\nbut I'll get to them within a couple days, I think ..", "\n\nI too had a very unpleasant experience with \"Hardware That's Shi*\". It\nfeatured repeated lies about when things had shipped, a salesperson who\nwas totally ignorant about what he was selling, a charge for duties I\nhad specifically been assured were not payable and then a monitor (their\nhouse brand 2-page monochrome) that was the most unadulterated piece of\njunk it has ever been my misfortune to experience in the world of\nelectronics.\n\nI shipped it back and they refunded my money, but it still cost me\nsomething over $200 for long distance charges, non-refundable taxes\nand duties and lost time.", "Taft Electronics, 45th Street between 5th & 6th -- the only one left in\nwhat was once an entire district of electronics stores. A little expensive.\n\nTrans-Am Electronics, Canal Street near 7th Ave -- lots of surplus type\nstuff.\n\nSeveral other electronics or \"surplus\" type places are still on Canal\nStreet.\n\nI think Bronx Wholesale Radio is still in business -- Fordham Road not\ntoo far from Arthur Avenue in the Bronx. Also in the Bronx is NorthEastern\n(or was it Northwestern? Northeast Electronics?) on Jerome Avenue near\nBedford Park Boulevard. They're mostly a TV parts supply house, but when\nI was building CB radio projects, they were quite handy..", "It is correct that VC++ is NOT considered an upgrade for C7. C7 is\nbasically a DOS product, VC++ is a Windows product. As Windows is not\nan upgrade for DOS, it is a separate operating system product line, its\nutilities cannot be upgrades for DOS utilities. However, I have also\nbeen told that it is NOT an upgrade for QCWIN, which it should be!\n", "\nYes it invokes the associated application. That takes but 10 seconds?", "Hello All!\n\n It is my understanding that all True-Type fonts in Windows are loaded in\nprior to starting Windows - this makes getting into Windows quite slow if you\nhave hundreds of them as I do. First off, am I correct in this thinking -\nsecondly, if that is the case - can you get Windows to ignore them on boot and\nmaybe make something like a PIF file to load them only when you enter the\napplications that need fonts? Any ideas?\n\n\nChris", "For all people that are interested in every aspect of the 2600 try the\nzine:\n\n2600 connection\n$1 cash to :\nTimothy Duarte\nPO Box N, 664\nWestport, MA 02790\n\nfor sample\n\n\n", "I have a new monitor which I set up approximately 3-4 feet from \nwhere the AC power enters my house - at my fuse box. \n\nIs this safe for the monitor, or will/can the EMF emitted by the AC current eventually affect my monitor? If so, how, and is the \ndamage permanent or would degaussing fix it?", "THe origional bit is missing but long/short follows:\n\n The origional poster asked if he/she could use any old vga/svga\nmonitor with a centris (hence title). \n\n The answer ot this question is an unqualified yes. You can use any\nold vga/svga monitor with a centris. You do need an adaptor (I use a\nMac vga-q from james engineering (510) 525-7350) to run between the two\nmachines. THe adaptor I have mentioned will convert a centris to a\nthree row vga/svga 25(?) pin adaptor for your monitor.\n\n NOW, the special interest disclaimer.\n The above answer is correct for using a vga monitor at 600x400\nresolution. IF your monitor will sync to 56Khz horizontal the above\nadaptor will allow you to choose 800x600 resolution (I prefer this on my\n1604s).\n\nTHen You have the question of matching adaptors and sync rates. I would\nadvocate calling James engineering because they seem to have a clue. As\nto the comment by the person who said don't bother calling Apple because\nthey will treat you like an idiot this is totally untrue.\n APPLE WILL TREAT YOU LIKE A F**KING ASSANINE IDIOT FOR EVEN\nCONSIDERING GOING THIRD PARTY AND IF YOU WANT THIS TREATMENT WANTS YOU\nTO PAY FOR THEIR THECH SUPPORT LINE (the supposedly compitantly one) AND\nTHEN STILL HAS NO FU***** CLUE.\n\npersonal experience. also the tech suppport for the vga monitor makers\ndoesn't see to extend to Macs (Sony, Magnavox). In addition to this to\nfind out the info you will have to call dealers unless you can find the\nsync rates elsewhere as ads like Hardware that fits\n(*&^%&%^%$$(&**&^(%&%^$!) that rate monitor resolutions give the most\nfavorable rating (which usually means you can get this if you use a\nspecialized application video card).(i.e. \"well you can get a resolution\n1168x832 on this $5, 9\" \"super smelly sock\" monitor that will let you\ndisplay TWO FULL PAGES side by side. All you need is our reasonably\npriced \"oder eater\" video board for $27,000 and it will give you an\nultra fast horizontal sync rate of SIX fast kilohertz and three Khz\nvertical.\")\n\n\n\nNote: with the sony 1604 at least on the centris 610 built in video\nboard using an 832x624 adaptor, there is a boarder of an inch + to the\nsides of the image after adjusting the horizontal width as favorably as\npossible. Using a 800x600 adaptor this can be reduced to about half an\ninch.", "University of Toronto\n Instructional and Research Computing\n\n is sponsoring a technical presentation\n on Visualization Software\n\n\n _\bA_\bd_\bv_\ba_\bn_\bc_\be_\bd _\bV_\bi_\bs_\bu_\ba_\bl _\bS_\by_\bs_\bt_\be_\bm_\bs (_\bA_\bV_\bS) _\bS_\bo_\bf_\bt_\bw_\ba_\br_\be\n\n\n 2:10 PM - 4:00 PM\n Thursday, May 6, 1993\n Sandford Fleming Building\n Room 1105\n\n\n\"Advanced Visual Systems will present this technical seminar on\nAVS, the world's leading visualization software package. AVS is\na point and click, module driven, easy-to-use product that\nproduces full color, two or three dimensional rendered scenes for\ninteractive observation. It is supported on all current Unix\nRISC platforms from Sun, SGI, IBM, H-P, DG, and DEC. It also\nruns under DEC VMS.\n\n\"AVS is in its fourth year on the street and is very mature. All\nfields of science, engineering, medicine, and even business\napplications now use AVS. This seminar will focus on its many\nfeatures in technical detail during a half hour slide\npresentation. Following a question period there will be a live\ndemonstration using a Sun SPARCstation. In addition, a new AVS\nprogram called CAMPUS will be introduced at this meeting.\n\n\"Also discussed will be the International AVS Center, which\nprovides an on-line repository of over 1000 graphics modules at\nthe North Carolina Supercomputer Center in Raliegh, NC. AVS has\nimbedded tools to write one's own customized modules should these\nnot be available with AVS or from AVS International.\"\n\n\n _\bS_\bp_\be_\ba_\bk_\be_\br_\bs\n\n The scheduled speaker for this presentation is Mr. Paul\nEcklund of Ecklund Associates, the distributor of AVS in\nCanada.", "\nWell, yes and no. The _image_ can't be on the screen less than 1/30\nof a second, but a _mixture_ of images that's about 90% of the field\nthat was supposed to be there and 10% of the 'subliminal' addition\ncould be overlaid for one field, producing the same overall effect to\nour sluggish retinae of a discrete image projected for 1/300 second.\n\n..although, like the previous poster, I have to reserve my doubts\nabout the effectiveness of said discrete image in steering my\nsubconscious around ..\n", "My PC is a 486-33DX (ISA) with AMI BIOS and OPTI chipset. I am thinking of replacing the AMI BIOS chip (dated 6-91) with an up-to-date one (not for any reason, just messing around). My questions are:\n\n1. Do I just take out the old one and plug in a new?\n\n2. Anything else I have to take care of? What precautions should I take?\n\n3. Where can I get the new BIOS chip, CompUSA, mailorder or what? (I live in Orange County California).\n\n4. What is the most up-to-date version?\n\n5. Very important. How much would it be?\n\nThank you for your help.\n", "\nNo. All that I've seen have also an on-board BIOS which enables you to\nuse up to 2 hard drives directly under DOS (2 drives is a DOS\nlimitation and you have the same problem with IDE and all other\nstandards for that matter). Software drivers often allow for better\nperformance, though. You have to use them if you want to use other\ndevices besides hard disks or have more than 2 disks.\n\n\nObviously these are not able to use the 16-bit real mode BIOSes that\nare written for DOS, so you need software drivers. That's not a big\ndeal (as long as the drivers are available), because you won't have to\nfight with any low memory problems either.", "Hi. My last question for the year. I have a mail-order no-name notebook\nwith 4 meg ram. I never have problems with my huge ramdisk or when\nrunning desqview, but Win3.1 and W4W2.0 constantly crash on me, most\ncommonly citing a \"memory parity error.\" The only thing I can do is TURN\nOFF and re-boot. My CMOS ticks off & counts all the memory every startup,\nand there is never a problem with this either.\n\nCould it be a bug in my Windows copy instead of the hardware? I remember\nhaving some disk error problems when installing it.\n\n\nIs there any change I could make to lessen the frequency or likelyhood of\nthis happening (I think win vs win /s produce different crashes, but both\ncrash frequently nonetheless)", "\n\nThe answer is obvious: ZX-11 D.", "If anyone out there has an HP180 series scope or mainframe, I\nhave the TDR plug in (the 1810, I believe) for it and have no need\nto keep it. Interested? E-mail me.\n\n-- \n--------------------------------------------------------------------\n Dave Medin\t\t\tPhone:\t(205) 730-3169 (w)\n SSD--Networking\t\t\t\t(205) 837-1174 (h)\n Intergraph Corp.\n M/S GD3004 \t\tInternet: dtmedin@catbyte.b30.ingr.com\n Huntsville, AL 35894\t\tUUCP: ...uunet!ingr!b30!catbyte!dtmedin\n\n ******* Everywhere You Look (at least around my office) *******", "We are developing an MS-Windows based product that uses a full screen window\nto display ~24 rows of textual data. Is there any product for Microsoft Windows\nthat will enable blind individuals to access the data efficiently (quickly) ??\n\nPlease email responses and I will post a summary to this group.", "I just bought a new AMIECU EISA motherboard and an Adaptec 1742A fast-SCSI \ncontroller. I wanted to install the AHA-1742A and did as written in the\nAMIECU manual. But the CFG-utility told me to get a newer version of the Adaptec \nconfiguration overlay file named 'adp0000.ovr', because the old one is not \ncompatible to my motherboard.\nThe adaptec driver utility is version 3.0.\n\n CAN YOU HELP ME ? PLEASE DO SO.\n", "I have a Microsoft Serial Mouse and am using mouse.com 8.00 (was using 8.20 \nI think, but switched to 8.00 to see if it was any better). Vertical motion \nis nice and smooth, but horizontal motion is so bad I sometimes can't click \non something because my mouse jumps around. I can be moving the mouse to \nthe right with relatively uniform motion and the mouse will move smoothly \nfor a bit, then jump to the right, then move smoothly for a bit then jump \nagain (maybe this time to the left about .5 inch!). This is crazy! I have \nnever had so much trouble with a mouse before. Anyone have any solutions? \n\nDoes Microsoft think they are what everyone should be? <- just venting steam!\n\n\n---\nSean Eckton\nComputer Support Representative\nCollege of Fine Arts and Communications\n\nD-406 HFAC\nBrigham Young University\nProvo, UT 84602\n(801)378-3292", "There are many programs on CD-ROM that fit on a harddisk, not all software \nis that big (but we're getting there :-)).\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGuido Klemans\n\nInternet: rcstage1@urc.tue.nl valid until 16 may 1993\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n'Listen very carefully, I will say this only ones.' Michelle of the resitance\n", "\nThe rule for the designations is that if it says MC, that means it works\n*exactly* the way the datasheet/book specifies. If it says XC, that means\nthere is at least one known bug. Often these bugs are small and obscure;\nyou might never run into them in practice.\n\nAt least Motorola admits it, unlike certain other companies...", "\n\nThis is not the case: the ROM on the P9000 supports VESA modes of up to\n1024x768 in 256 colors. VESA-compliant applications should have no trouble\nsetting these modes. (But I'm forwarding your posting to our Software group,\njust in case. Can't be too careful.) Not that I doubt that YOUR applications\nare failing to run; lots of stuff depends on figuring out which exact SVGA\nthey're looking at, and don't use VESA calls (VESA is still pretty new).\nEvery new chip set confuses them.\n\n\nI think we go to AT LEAST 76 Hz at 1024x768x8, and maybe more (and\nit's a function of the RAMDAC speed, not the Power 9000). We need to\nfix the problems you've noted (they were already on the list). If\nyou're really interested, though, take a look at the text file\nP9000RES.DAT, which holds the data from which the choices in the\nP9000 monitor installation program are built. Working by analogy,\nyou can build up a new monitor definition that has the right\ncombinations of refresh rates for your monitors. Keep a backup copy\nof the file! Once you've built a new version of the P9000RES.DAT\nfile, run the P9000 installation program, INST, and your new choices\nshould show up. (This assumes you have the WEITEK v. 2.2 drivers.\nYou can tell the rev number by looking at the modification time of\nthe driver: 02:20 is version 2.20. Microsoft uses this gimmick,\ntoo.)\n\n\nThe SPEEDY benchmark was put out by Hercules and IIT, who to my\nknowledge were unencumbered by any motivations except making the\nHercules Graphite/IIT AGX014 card look really good. So I'd take the\nnumbers with a ton of salt. (Texas Instruments did the same thing\nwith WINTACH, trying to make the 34020 look good compared to the\n8514, as if anyone cared.) It's safer (though not safe) to use\nbenchmarks from \"unbiased\" sources, such as testing labs, columnists,\netc.\n\n\n\nI think you'll a large discrepancy between the results of SPEEDY and\nthe results of anything else in the universe on these things.\n\n\nFont caching is a perfectly legitimate optimization -- Windows has\nhooks for it built right into the GDI. What's kind of silly is IIT's\nuse of a hardwired \"The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog then\nsat on a tack\" string in their driver. Not only is it useless in\nreal applications, it lacks the programming elegance of the \"Bart\nSimpson optimization,\" in which you save the bitmap of the\nmost-recently drawn string in off-screen memory, and just do a\nscreen-to-screen bitblit if you happen to be given that same string a\nsecond time in a row. (We call it the \"Bart Simpson optimization\"\nbecause Bart's the only person we can see benefiting from it: he\ncould right \"I will not cheat on benchmarks\" a hundred times and be\ndone in half the time it would take to actually form each character.)\n\n\nWe don't have any lawyers -- they're all working for Intel. There\nused to be a lawyer in Montana who didn't, but he died.\n\n\t-- Robert\n\n", "Since I have some free time while looking for a job I thought \nI would offer Linux on disk and tape for those who need it.\n\n\nNOTE: I am offering this service for EXPERIENCED users who \nrequire no support. Simply put I am just a disk shuffler. If \nyou think you will need support I HIGHLY recommend \nSoftlanding Linux System (SLS) directly. They provide an\nexcellent product at a decent price with support.\n\nI am the lazy mans service, for those who don't want to spend \n4 hours on the modem and 2 hours shuffling floppies. And \nthose who don't need SLS support and opt to go it alone.\n\nWhat you get... each disk is $1.50(5.25) \n $1.75(3.5) (14 disk minimum).\n\nA Minimal System : 4 Disks 6.00/7.00\nB Base System Extras : 7 Disks 10.50/12.25\nC Compilers : 3 Disks 4.50/5.25\nD Documentation : 2 Disks 3.00/3.50\nS Source, misc. : 1 Disk 1.50/1.75\nT TeX : 3 Disks 4.50/5.25\nX X-Windows : 8 Disks 12.00/14.00\n\n\nEntire set %5 discount: 40.00/46.50\n\nor the entire set on QC-40 tape for 40.00\n\n\nSend check or money order \n\nStephen Balbach\n5437 Enberend Terrace\nColumbia, MD 21045", "\nIs this being done with the motherboard's SCSI interface? If this is possible\nthen a bit of experimenting with just plain old clock oscillators may be\nin order. Give us some more details please.", "\nI think it is an ESDI controller if you need the doco i can help you.\n\n Stefan\n", "From x51948b1@usma1.USMA.EDU Tue Apr 20 10:28:47 1993\nReceived: from usma1.usma.edu by trotter.usma.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1-eef)\n\tid AA01628; Tue, 20 Apr 93 11:27:50 EDT\nReceived: by usma1.usma.edu (5.51/25-eef)\n\tid AA03219; Tue, 20 Apr 93 11:20:18 EDT\nMessage-Id: <9304201520.AA03219@usma1.usma.edu>\nDate: Tue, 20 Apr 93 11:20:17 EDT\nFrom: x51948b1@usma1.USMA.EDU (Peckham David CDT)\nTo: cs1442au@decster.uta.edu\nSubject: Problem.\nStatus: OR\n\n--------------------\n\nI am running a Unisys PW2 386SX20 with DOS 6. My problem, even when I had DOS\n5.0, is that when I have EMM386 loaded I can't CTL-ALT-DEL. If I do, the\ncomputer beeps a few times rapidly and hangs. Then I have to use the obscure\nreset (requires a screwdriver or pencil) or the power switch to reboot. Does\nanyone have a solution to this problem?\n\nE-mail me at x51948b1@usma1.usma.edu\n\nDave\n---------------------\n\nThanks,\n\ndave\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDavid S. Peckham | Internet : x51948b1@usma1.usma.edu\nU.S. Military Academy |\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n-- \n Jason Brown\ncs1442au@decster.uta.edu", "You can also set the Foreground to the XOR of the foreground and background\ncolors: XSetForeground(..., fg ^ bg); This works great for me (at least\nwith TrueColor visuals).\n", "Can some kind soul provide me with information on LDRs that contain an\nonboard light-source, in a totally integrated and light-shielded unit.\n\nI have seen a VTL5C LDR in some schematics. So who are the manufacturers\nof these devices, and what are the different types.\n\nThanks very much in advance,\nJim.\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n Jim Trivellas.\n Department of Electrical & Electronic Engineering.\n School of Information Technology & Electrical Engineering.\n The University of Melbourne, Parkville 3052, Victoria, Australia.\n |\n |\n |\t\t\tTelephone: +61 3 3447976\n *****\t\t\tEmail: jimt@mullian.ee.mu.oz.au\n _______*************_______\n _|_____*****************_____|_\n _|_|_____*****************_____|_|_\t\"Hello, is that the front desk?\"\n | The SPID |", "\nA good vocoder like ours will give you 8000 bits per second locked at\nfull rate (it's a variable rate voice activity vocoder). If you want\nless quality, cut that to 4000 bps (half rate). At full rate variable\nyou could put two full-duplex conversations on a V.32bis modem. This\nrequires a DSP or ASICs, though. An RS-6000 has a CPU that could\nprobably do it in real-time, because it has the add-and-multiply\ninstruction and a few other DSP things.\n\nIf you want to do speech in real-time you need about 4000 samples a\nsecond (for not very good voice) with your 8 bit samples (ISDN is 8000\n8-bit samples a second), which is 32 kbps. You could do a fast 2:1\ncompression on that to get it down to 16 kbps, which is just about\nV.32bis. The quality at this point is very bleah, but it should work.\nNow add in the time for your encryption method. You're going to need\nsampling hardware, which is no problem on a new Mac, an Amiga. Or a\nPC with a SoundBlaster card (just because they're so popular and cheap\n- you could also build a simple ADC). The problem with the\nSoundBlaster is that it doesn't seem to be full duplex - you can't\nsample and play backq at the same time, making a two-way conversation\na bit tough. The special hardware or a more capable sound card may be\nrequired.\n\nThe only thing that worries me is that 2:1 compression - the\nSoundBlaster can do it automatically in hardware, but other than that\nI don't have a good feel for how processor intensive it is, so I can't\nestimate how fast a PC you'd need.\n\n", "ites:\na\nThe newer the drive, the less problem you will have. The old ten and fifteen\nmeg full heights were power hogs, but I have over twenty units that I set up\nrunning flawlessly with half height drives and/or hard cards.\n\n-- ", "\nI would further add that a 486/50,S3/928,8mb,15\",200mbDISK is going to cost\n/WAY/ more than $900, probably $3,000. Color makes it not apples/apples too.\nXterminals provide better price/performance than PCs. You can make a PC\nmuch cheaper, and perform much worse, and you can make PC's perform great, and\ncost more. You pay extra for the additional functinality and expandability\nof a PC. For home user, that extra functionality is worth the added cost.", "Has anyone seen source to an xterm package ready\nto perform UNISYS 22403 TERMINAL EMULATION. \nGot a clunker... and ... Got a connect!\n\nreturn: mikell@cactus.org\n", "I have found a situation which I think is a bug in X or Motif, but I'm hoping\nis really just a mistake on my part. Does anyone know anything about\nthis problem........\n\n- I am using an XmTextField, and setting its XmNvalue to a hardcoded\n text string (ascii or Kanji) either via XtSetValues or XmTextSetString.\n The problem is that when the XmTextField is displayed, the text is getting\n truncated, depending on the setting of the environment variables\n LANG (more specifically LC_ALL). When they are set to japanese,\n the text gets truncated. When they are set to english, everything\n works fine. I am taking the default for XmNcolumns.\n (Please note that hardcoding of text is NOT done in my actual\n application, just in my sample code to make things easier)\n\t\n- I am running Motif 1.2, X11R5 via HPUX9.01. My test program is set up\n to handle 16 bit Kanji characters. I have remembered to do \n XtSetLanguageProc() prior to my MrmInitialize and my font resources\n are set to japanese fonts.\n\n- Don't know if this matters, but my dialog box and TextField is initially\n created with UIL. \n\n\nThe problem does NOT happen with XmText. Unfortunately substituting\nXmTextFields with XmTexts in my application is not an acceptable\nalternative (way too much code to be modified while in beta!)\n\nI have a small test program which illustrates the problem if anyone\nwants it. My best guess is that either the X code or Motif is not\nproperly allocating memory for japanese, but since I don't have the\nsource to look at it is just a guess.\n\nPlease let me know if this sounds familiar, or if you have a suggestion,\nor if you want the sample program.\n\nTHANKS!!!!!!!!\n\n- Susan ", "==== BEGIN REPOST ====\n\nIBM, Apple, Motorola Ready to Unwrap PowerPC 601 Processor\n\n\nThe wraps will come off the PowerPC 601 processor this week, as Motorola\nCorp., IBM, and Apple Computer Inc. detail the results of their yearlong\neffort. This first in a series of PowerPC processors will be a 32-bit\nprocessor with a 64-bit memory interface, much like Intel Corp.'s\nPentium, with the capability of performing as many as three instructions\nper clock cycle, according to sources familiar with the chip. Motorola\nis expected to release the chip in volume by year end in two\nconfigurations, running at 50 and 66 MHz with performance of 40 and 50\nSPECint89 marks, respectively, sources said. Floating-point performance\nfor the 3.6-volt processors will be even better, as their SPECfp89\nperformance will be 60 and 80, respectively. The 601, a scaled-down\nversion of the Power 220 chip developed by IBM for its RS/6000\nworkstations, will also include a 32K single buffered cache on the chip\nwith protocols to support Motorola's 64-bit multiprocessor 88110 bus\nbuilt in. The chip, which is being designed initially to support the\nMicro Channel Architecture, is bus independent, so vendors could develop\nPowerPC- based systems using a number of different architectures,\nincluding ISA, EISA, or Sun Microsystems Inc.'s S-bus design, one source\nnoted.\n\nAccording to sources familiar with the development effort, Motorola has\nbeen extremely successful in developing the PowerPC as an inexpensive\narchitecture, despite a complex design made up of more than 2.8 million\ntransistors using a 0.6-micron technology. Initial chips are expected to\nbe priced from $300 to $400 -- only slightly higher than Intel Corp.'s\n486 processors -- but could be sold profitably for less than $100, one\nsource said.", "Within a few months, I'll be looking for a job in 3d computer graphics\nsoftware. I'm in need of info on companies that do it. There's nothing\nin any of the FAQ's for this group, and nothing at siggraph.org (at least\nI couldn't find anything.) The last Computer Graphics Career Handbook was\ndated 1991, had info on 40 companies, but nothing specific on any of them.\n\nCan people please direct me towards more current and detailed sources of\ninformation? I'll post a summary of sources if there's interest.\n\nAlso, could you please e-mail me, our news server is on the fritz. :(\n\nThanks,\nBrandon\n", "I have the following items for sale:\n\nAnimation Works software for Macintosh by Gold Disk\n This is a brand new shrink-wrapped copy\n\nMicrosoft Excel for Windows Ver. 4.0\n Opened, but includes everything including Registration card\n\nVideo7 FastWrite VGA card. 512 video memory. 800x600 resolution.\n\nEverex 2400b internal modem.\n Video card and the modem are used items.\n\nIf you are interested make a reasonable offer. I wish to ship these\nUPS COD.\nPlease email me at karu@nevada.edu.\nThank you.", "I was playing this golf game and something interesting happened.\nOn the 7th hole, I drove the ball down the fairway, when the ball was\nin mid-flight, the game completely froze. A couple seconds later, the\nscreen went completely black, with an error message in large \"Bubble\"\nletters that said DIVISION BY ZERO. I thought it was funny considering\nI am a computer programmer, and I had never seen an error like this on\nan actual video game system like Sega or Nintendo (or even Atari or\nIntellevision years ago). Oh yeah, after the message, there was also\nwhat must have been an address, in hexadecimal. I forget the exact hex\ncode that was given. HAS THIS HAPPENED TO ANYONE ELSE??? It must have,\nmy game shouldn't have been the only one to do this.", "Any Tcpview-for-Sun users out there? I pulled down the pre-compiled\nexecutables made for Sun for Tcpview, but I'm getting a whole slew of the\nfollowing types of error messages when I try to start it up:\n Warning: translation table syntax error: Unknown keysym name: osfActivate\n Warning: ... found while parsing 'osfActivate:ManagerParentActivate()'\n Warning: translation table syntax error: Unknown keysym name: osfCancel\n Warning: ... found while parsing 'osfCancel:ManagerParentCancel()'\n Warning: translation table syntax error: Unknown keysym name: osfSelect\n Warning: ... found while parsing 'osfSelect:ManagerGadgetSelect()'\n ...\nBut I *know* I have those in my keysym:\n egrep \"osfActivate|osfCancel|osfSelect\" $OPENWINHOME/lib/XKeysymDB\nyields:\n osfActivate :1004FF44\n osfSelect :1004FF60\n osfCancel :1004FF69\n osfSelectAll :1004FF71\nand, if I take *out* the osf lines from said XKeysymDB, my copy of wscrawl\n(another Motif-compiled-for-Sun program) gives the same type of complaints\nas listed above.\n\nAny tips? I'm mystified.", "\n\n\n\nHey, sounds great. Does that mean that W4WG works with ODI? I thought it \nuses NDIS. \n \nMy problem is that Lan Workplace with all its drivers uses up most of my \nUMBs, so I'd hate to have to load many more drivers to make W4WG work \nalong. \n \nI read in a German computer magazine that TCP/IP support for W4WG is just \naround the corner. Anybody have any news about this? \n \nRegards, Richard \n\nPS: I possibly caused a dupe with this message. If this message was spread\ntwice outside of Munich, please send me a short note. It would help\nme debug my news application.\n", "Hi everyone. I recently posted about how I received a bad vram chip for my\nnew LCIII, and someone responded that it may not actually be bad, but it may\nbe a 512K LC vram chip, and thus doesn't work properly with my computer. So\nI'm wondering if anyone can interpret these codes for me, so I can figure\nout what type of chip MacConnection sent me.\n\n\t\t 2515251\n\nOn the back of the card, it says 0593\n\nI believe from the numbers that means it is an 80ns chip, but I can't figure\nout what the size is supposed to be. If anyone can help, I'd be grateful.\nPlease email me your response. Thanks a lot!\n\n-- \nHillel Sims ----- simsh@rpi.edu ----- Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute", "I have a 286 with a Western Digital WD-93044A hard drive. This drive is \n782 cylinders with 4 read write heads PHYSICALLY, but LOGICALLY it is\n977 cylinders with 5 read write heads (??!!). In the CMOS setting\nI am instructed to set it to type 17 (IBM 977 cyl. 5 read/write heads),\n\nTHE PROBLEM: I was sent Western Digitals ISPFMT low level program from\nthe manufacturer, and was instructed to run it on the hard drive with\nthe CMOS setting set to type 17. This worked \"o.k.\" and I verified the\ndisk using the same program. I then reloaded DOS which did a high\nlevel format, again no errors, no bad sectors, etc.\n\nBUT.... when I run Norton Speedisk 6.01 (or any other disk optimizer)\nwith the verify option set ON, I get ERROR verifying sector NNNN,\nwhere NNNN can be any number (not the same all the time).\n\nANY IDEAS AS TO WHAT IS GOING ON HERE WOULD BE APPRECIATED!\n\nThank you!", "Would someone please post or email the feature connector pin assignments?\nThis is sometimes referred to as the aux video connector in some \ndocumentation.\nThanks \nastrachan@austlcm.sps.mot.com", "\n*retching noises* Talk about \"out of the frying pan and into the fire\" :)\n\n\n\nI'm pretty sure SCSI is faster. Along with a lot better compatability.\n", "A couple of weeks ago I posted a question concerning\ncommunicating\nbetween VB and MSACCESS using DDE. The answers I received at\nthat time\nallowed me to get a prototype of my project working. However,\nduring\nthis process I have come up with new problems.\n\n1) There seems to be a limit of 255 characters for a DDE Topic\nstring. Is\nthis inherent in all DDE systems or just peculiar to MSACCESS\nor VB?\n\n2) It is easy to query an Access database from VB using the\nDDE SQL command,\n(provided the above limitation is overcome by using short\nfield and table\nnames) but how is one meant to update a database?\n a) A DDE SQL UPDATE command does not seem to work.\n b) Initiating an Access macro using a DDE Execute command\nfrom VB cannot\n be used because when the macro requests information from\nVB using a\n second DDE channel the programs dead lock until time-\nouts occur.\n (The VB to Access channel has to close before the Access\nto VB channel\n is initiated, I guess.)\n c) Access does not allow VB to DDE POKE the information.\n\n\n The way I eventually managed to update a database was by\nsending key-\n strokes from VB to Access using the SendKeys command. This\ntechnique has\n the problem that Access cannot be minimised and it must\nalways be in a\n state ready to respond to the sequence of key-strokes VB\nsends.\n\nAre all the above statements correct or have I made incorrect\nassumptions?\nAre there any better work arounds to the above? Are there any\nsigns of an\nODBC driver for Access?", "I have no experience with this particular hardware, but\njust about every month in Macworld there is an add for\nan combined SE accelerator/Video board. This item sells\nfor about $1000 and comes with a 25MHz 68030/68882 pair,\neight SIMM slots, and a grayscale 21\" monitor.\n\nThis accelerator plugs into the SE's lone expansion port\nand thus no soldering. You will however, need a long\nTORX wrench to get the case open (but that's not really\na big deal).\n\nDoes that sound like what you were looking for?", "Hi people!:\n\n\n I'm looking for X Servers for DOS or Windows.\n\n I've already seen Desqview/X and XVision but I'd like to be\n aware of other choices.\n\n Is there anything on the public domain or shareware ?\n\n And in the commercial area is there anything with aggressive\n pricing ?\n\n What about incompatibilities ? Window managers ?\n\n Any info is welcome.\n\n\n\n Thanx in advance.\n\n\n C U!\n \n By(e)", "long\ndisk\n\n\nI don't know how many times I've posted this the net. No one EVER\nlistens. \n\nOnce and for all: Floptical Media is only $1.40 a megabyte if you don't\nknow where to buy it. I am bying my flopticals at $30 per 2 disks. I\nsee that as $.75 a meagabyte, NOT $1.40. No, I'm not buying in bulk, I'm\nnot getting a special deal. $.75 a meg is good in my book, Approching\nfloppy price.\n\nAny questions on my source can be sent to ctr@po.cwru.edu.\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\nAlso, has anyone heard any rumors that the new docks (the ones with the CPU\n:-) will be better designed that this first batch? I love my Duo, but\ninstalling cards in the dock is not much fun.\n\n-Bob", "1. Large padded Cordura bag (maker unknown) nge exterior, black\n\t straps and interior. Five outside pocket plus lid compartment.\n\t Lid overlaps. Internal dividers can be repositioned. Held\n\t my whole 2-1/4 Bronica system, Metz flash, etc. $50.\n\n 2. Small \"Nikon\" shoulder bag. SORRY. SOLD & SHIPPE.\n\n 3. Small \"Nikon\" belt pouch. Khaki like #2. Similar in design\n\t Army ammo pouch - belt clips, etc. Holds flash or small\n\t zoom, lens cleaner, etc. $5.\n\n 4. Domke belt pouch, black. Also has metal loops of you want to\n\t attach strap. Velcro closure. Similar to #3 in concept, but\n\t bigger. Holds 35-135 zoom or flash, small accessories, etc.\n\t Hardly used; cost me $20 originally - will sell for $15.\n\n 5. Coast camera bag - tan with brown strap. Main and front pocket.\n\t Can hold AF slr with small zoom plus flash, film, etc. Matl\n\t looks like Gore-Tex but I don't think it really is. $15.\n\n\n\nTERMS: Payment in advance by money order/bank check, or cash. Buyer\npays shipping. #1 must go UPS. For the others, send me an adequate\nself addressed mailing envelope (padded recommended) with enough postage.\n /|/| /||)|/ /~ /\\| |\\|)[~|)/~ | Everyone's entitled to MY opinion.\n / | |/ ||\\|\\ \\_|\\/|_|/|)[_|\\\\_| | goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil\n========Imagination is more important than knowledge. - Albert Einstein=======\n\n\n\n\n", "Hello networld,\n\nI'm looking for an X mailreader. Is there a Xelm?\n\nAndreas\n\n", "\n Sean, the 68070 exists! :-)\n\n\n\n Sean, I don't want to get into a 'mini-war' by what I am going to say,\nbut I have to be a little bit skeptic about the performance you are\nclaiming on the Centris, you'll see why (please, no-flames, I reserve\nthose for c.s.m.a :-) )\n\n I was in Chicago in the last consumer electronics show, and Apple had a\nbooth there. I walked by, and they were showing real-time video capture\nusing a (Radious or SuperMac?) card to digitize and make right on the spot\nquicktime movies. I think the quicktime they were using was the old one\n(1.5).\n\n They digitized a guy talking there in 160x2xx something. It played back quite\nnicely and in real time. The guy then expanded the window (resized) to 25x by\n3xx (320 in y I think) and the frame rate decreased enough to notice that it\nwasn't 30fps (or about 30fps) anymore. It dropped to like 15 fps. Then he\nincreased it just a bit more, and it dropped to 10<->12 fps. \n\n Then I asked him what Mac he was using... He was using a Quadra (don't know\nwhat model, 900?) to do it, and he was telling the guys there that the Quicktime\ncould play back at the same speed even on an LCII.\n\n Well, I spoiled his claim so to say, since a 68040 Quadra Mac was having\na little bit of trouble. And this wasn't even from the hardisk! This was\nfrom memory!\n\n Could it be that you saw either a newer version of quicktime, or some\nhardware assisted Centris, or another software product running the \nanimation (like supposedly MacroMind's Accelerator?)?\n\n Don't misunderstand me, I just want to clarify this.\n\n But for the sake of the posting about a computer doing it or not, I can\nclaim 320x200 (a tad more with overscan) being done in 256,000+ colors in \nmy computer (not from the hardisk) at 30fps with Scala MM210.\n\n But I agree, if we consider MPEG stuff, I think a multimedia consumer\nlow-priced box has a lot of market... I just think 3DO would make it, \nno longer CD-I.\n", ": >What does a 200-400 meg 5 megs/sec SCSI drive cost?\n: Since the Quadra is the only Mac able to deal with 5MB/s and Hard drives START\n: at 160MB I have NO idea.\n: For the Mac I have the following {These are ALL external}\n: 20MB $299 {$15/MB}\n: 52MB $379 {$7.3/MB}\n: 80MB $449 {$5.63/MB}\n: 120MB $569-$639 {$4.75-$5.33/MB\n: 210MB $979-$1029{$4.67-$4.90/MB}\n: 320MB $1499-$1549 {$4.68-$4.84/MB}\n: 510MB $1999-$2119 ($3.92-$4.31/MB}\n: etc\n\nI thought you might want the latest prices:\n\nAs of MacWeek 4/12/93: \n Meg: Int Ext\n 20M - couldn't find one available.\n 42M - $159 $219\n 85M - $199 $269\n 127 - $279 $349\n 170 - $299 $359 All above are quantum, low profile (1\") 3.5\" drives\n 240 - $369 $449\n 525 - $899 $979\n 1225- $1499 $1569 - the last three are quantum 1/2 height 3.5\" drives.\n\n[ bunch o stuff deleted ]\n\n: SCSI came FROM the high end computer world with multitasking OS were the\n: standard for the most part. \n\nHear, hear. ", "How can get a pixel value from a Drawable, without having to copy it to the client\nas an XImage and use XGetPixel ?? - I want to select pixels from an animating\nwindow on the server, without having to copy the whole lot back to my client.\n(X11R5).\n\nAny pointers appreciated,\n\nGordon.\n", "hartzman@kilroy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Les Hartzman) writes...\n\n\nLes,\n\n\tI am right now working on an MPR-II certified (Swedish standards for\nlow emissions) Hitachi Superscan 15 monitor. It's 1024x768, up to 72hz at\nthat res, and it got a good write-up for image quality in a recent (Feb.?)\nissue of PC Magazine. As far as I know, very little fully matches a NEC in\nimage quality (at least according to the mags -- I can't tell any\ndifference between the two!), but I think NEC is low emissions on only one\nof the two types. There's VLF (Very Low Frequency) and ELF (I think that's\nExtremely Low Frequency). The MPR-II standards set strict limits on both.\nBut many comapnies, NEC included according to one article I read (I get a\nbunch of mags so it's hard for me to remember which!), which claim \"low\nemissions\" but not specifically \"MPR-II Compliant\" or \"MPR-II Certified\"\nonly control for one, usually VLF, and ignore the other.\n\tSo, the NEC probably has higher overall image quality (I consis-\ntently hear it rated as the best or close to the best), but not as low\nemissions as the Hitachi. I like my image quality, but for all I know you\nmay be more discerning. Good luck!\n\n\t\t\t\t\t- Mitch\n \t\t\t\t\tv063kcbp@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu\n", "I have posted disp135.zip to alt.binaries.pictures.utilities\n\n\n****** You may distribute this program freely for non-commercial use\n if no fee is gained.\n****** There is no warranty. The author is not responsible for any\n damage caused by this program.\n\n\nImportant changes since version 1.30:\n Fix bugs in file management system (file displaying).\n Improve file management system (more user-friendly).\n Fix bug in XPM version 3 reading.\n Fix bugs in TARGA reading/writng.\n Fix bug in GEM/IMG reading.\n Add support for PCX and GEM/IMG writing.\n Auto-skip macbinary header.\n\n\n(1) Introduction:\n This program can let you READ, WRITE and DISPLAY images with different\n formats. It also let you do some special effects(ROTATION, DITHERING ....)\n on image. Its main purpose is to let you convert image among different\n formts.\n Include simple file management system.\n Support 'slide show'.\n There is NO LIMIT on image size.\n Currently this program supports 8, 15, 16, 24 bits display.\n If you want to use HiColor or TrueColor, you must have VESA driver.\n If you want to modify video driver, please read section (8).\n\n\n(2) Hardware Requirement:\n PC 386 or better. MSDOS 3.3 or higher.\n min amount of ram is 4M bytes(Maybe less memory will also work).\n (I recommend min 8M bytes for better performance).\n Hard disk for swapping(virtual memory).\n\n The following description is borrowed from DJGPP.\n\n Supported Wares:\n\n * Up to 128M of extended memory (expanded under VCPI)\n * Up to 128M of disk space used for swapping\n * SuperVGA 256-color mode up to 1024x768\n * 80387\n * XMS & VDISK memory allocation strategies\n * VCPI programs, such as QEMM, DESQview, and 386MAX\n\n Unsupported:\n\n * DPMI\n * Microsoft Windows\n\n Features: 80387 emulator, 32-bit unix-ish environment, flat memory\n model, SVGA graphics.\n\n\n(3) Installation:\n Video drivers, emu387 and go32.exe are borrowed from DJGPP.\n (If you use Western Digital VGA chips, read readme.wd)\n (This GO32.EXE is a modified version for vesa and is COMPLETELY compatible\n with original version)\n+ *** But some people report that this go32.exe is not compatible with\n+ other DJGPP programs in their system. If you encounter this problem,\n+ DON'T put go32.exe within search path.\n\n *** Please read runme.bat for how to run this program.\n\n If you choose xxxxx.grn as video driver, add 'nc 256' to environment\n GO32.\n\n For example, go32=driver x:/xxxxx/xxxxx.grn nc 256\n\n If you don't have 80x87, add 'emu x:/xxxxx/emu387' to environment GO32.\n\n For example, go32=driver x:/xxxxx/xxxxx.grd emu x:/xxxxx/emu387\n\n **** Notes: 1. I only test tr8900.grn, et4000.grn and vesa.grn.\n Other drivers are not tested.\n 2. I have modified et4000.grn to support 8, 15, 16, 24 bits\n display. You don't need to use vesa driver.\n If et4000.grn doesn't work, please try vesa.grn.\n 3. For those who want to use HiColor or TrueColor display,\n please use vesa.grn(except et4000 users).\n You can find vesa BIOS driver from :\n wuarchive.wustl.edu: /mirrors/msdos/graphics\n godzilla.cgl.rmit.oz.au: /kjb/MGL\n\n\n(4) Command Line Switch:\n\n+ Usage : display [-d|--display initial_display_type]\n+ [-s|--sort sort_method]\n+ [-h|-?]\n\n Display type: 8(SVGA,default), 15, 16(HiColor), 24(TrueColor)\n+ Sort method: 'name', 'ext'\n\n\n(5) Function Key:\n\n F2 : Change disk drive\n\n+ CTRL-A -- CTRL-Z : change disk drive.\n\n F3 : Change filename mask (See match.doc)\n\n F4 : Change parameters\n\n F5 : Some effects on picture, eg. flip, rotate ....\n\n F7 : Make Directory\n\n t : Tag file\n\n + : Tag group files (See match.doc)\n\n T : Tag all files\n\n u : Untag file\n\n - : Untag group files (See match.doc)\n\n U : Untag all files\n\n Ins : Change display type (8,15,16,24) in 'read' & 'screen' menu.\n\n F6,m,M : Move file(s)\n\n F8,d,D : Delete file(s)\n\n r,R : Rename file\n\n c,C : Copy File(s)\n\n z,Z : Display first 10 bytes in Ascii, Hex and Dec modes.\n\n+ f,F : Display disk free space.\n\n Page Up/Down : Move one page\n\n TAB : Change processing target.\n\n Arrow keys, Home, End, Page Up, Page Down: Scroll image.\n Home: Left Most.\n End: Right Most.\n Page Up: Top Most.\n Page Down: Bottom Most.\n in 'screen' & 'effect' menu :\n Left,Right arrow: Change display type(8, 15, 16, 24 bits)\n\n s,S : Slide Show. ESCAPE to terminate.\n\n ALT-X : Quit program without prompting.\n\n+ ALT-A : Reread directory.\n\n Escape : Abort function and return.\n\n\n(6) Support Format:\n\n Read: GIF(.gif), Japan MAG(.mag), Japan PIC(.pic), Sun Raster(.ras),\n Jpeg(.jpg), XBM(.xbm), Utah RLE(.rle), PBM(.pbm), PGM(.pgm),\n PPM(.ppm), PM(.pm), PCX(.pcx), Japan MKI(.mki), Tiff(.tif),\n Targa(.tga), XPM(.xpm), Mac Paint(.mac), GEM/IMG(.img),\n IFF/ILBM(.lbm), Window BMP(.bmp), QRT ray tracing(.qrt),\n Mac PICT(.pct), VIS(.vis), PDS(.pds), VIKING(.vik), VICAR(.vic),\n FITS(.fit), Usenix FACE(.fac).\n\n the extensions in () are standard extensions.\n\n Write: GIF, Sun Raster, Jpeg, XBM, PBM, PGM, PPM, PM, Tiff, Targa,\n XPM, Mac Paint, Ascii, Laser Jet, IFF/ILBM, Window BMP,\n+ Mac PICT, VIS, FITS, FACE, PCX, GEM/IMG.\n\n All Read/Write support full color(8 bits), grey scale, b/w dither,\n and 24 bits image, if allowed for that format.\n\n\n(7) Detail:\n\n Initialization:\n Set default display type to highest display type.\n Find allowable screen resolution(for .grn video driver only).\n\n 1. When you run this program, you will enter 'read' menu. Whthin this\n menu you can press any function key except F5. If you move or copy\n files, you will enter 'write' menu. the 'write' menu is much like\n 'read' menu, but only allow you to change directory.\n+ The header line in 'read' menu includes \"(d:xx,f:xx,t:xx)\".\n+ d : display type. f: number of files. t: number of tagged files.\n pressing SPACE in 'read' menu will let you select which format to use\n for reading current file.\n pressing RETURN in 'read' menu will let you reading current file. This\n program will automatically determine which format this file is.\n The procedure is: First, check magic number. If fail, check\n standard extension. Still fail, report error.\n pressing s or S in 'read' menu will do 'Slide Show'.\n If delay time is 0, program will wait until you hit a key\n (except ESCAPE).\n If any error occurs, program will make a beep.\n ESCAPE to terminate.\n pressing Ins in 'read' menu will change display type.\n pressing ALT-X in 'read' menu will quit program without prompting.\n\n 2. Once image file is successfully read, you will enter 'screen' menu.\n Within this menu F5 is turn on. You can do special effect on image.\n pressing RETURN: show image.\n in graphic mode, press RETURN, SPACE or ESCAPE to return to text\n mode.\n pressing TAB: change processing target. This program allows you to do\n special effects on 8-bit or 24-bit image.\n pressing Left,Right arrow: change display type. 8, 15, 16, 24 bits.\n pressing SPACE: save current image to file.\n B/W Dither: save as black/white image(1 bit).\n Grey Scale: save as grey image(8 bits).\n Full Color: save as color image(8 bits).\n True Color: save as 24-bit image.\n\n This program will ask you some questions if you want to write image\n to file. Some questions are format-dependent. Finally This program\n will prompt you a filename. If you want to save file under another\n directory other than current directory, please press SPACE. after\n pressing SPACE, you will enter 'write2' menu. You can change\n directory to what you want. Then,\n\n pressing SPACE: this program will prompt you 'original' filename.\n pressing RETURN: this program will prompt you 'selected' filename\n (filename under bar).\n\n\n 3. This program supports 8, 15, 16, 24 bits display.\n\n 4. This Program is MEMORY GREEDY. If you don't have enough memory,\n the performance is poor.\n\n 5. If you want to save 8 bits image :\n try GIF then TIFF(LZW) then TARGA then Sun Raster then BMP then ...\n\n If you want to save 24 bits image (lossless):\n try TIFF(LZW) or TARGA or ILBM or Sun Raster\n (No one is better for true 24bits image)\n\n 6. I recommend Jpeg for storing 24 bits images, even 8 bits images.\n\n 7. Not all subroutines are fully tested\n\n 8. This document is not well written. If you have any PROBLEM, SUGGESTION,\n COMMENT about this program,\n Please send to u7711501@bicmos.ee.nctu.edu.tw (140.113.11.13).\n I need your suggestion to improve this program.\n (There is NO anonymous ftp on this site)\n\n\n(8) Tech. information:\n Program (user interface and some subroutines) written by Jih-Shin Ho.\n Some subroutines are borrowed from XV(2.21) and PBMPLUS(dec 91).\n Tiff(V3.2) and Jpeg(V4) reading/writing are through public domain\n libraries.\n Compiled with DJGPP.\n You can get whole DJGPP package from SIMTEL20 or mirror sites.\n For example, wuarchive.wustl.edu: /mirrors/msdos/djgpp\n\n\n(9) For Thoese who want to modify video driver:\n 1. get GRX source code from SIMTEL20 or mirror sites.\n 2. For HiColor and TrueColor:\n 15 bits : # of colors is set to 32768.\n 16 bits : # of colors is set to 0xc010.\n 24 bits : # of colors is set to 0xc018.\n\n\nAcknowledgment:\n I would like to thank the authors of XV and PBMPLUS for their permission\n to let me use their subroutines.\n Also I will thank the authors who write Tiff and Jpeg libraries.\n Thank DJ. Without DJGPP I can't do any thing on PC.\n", "I'm trying to turn on Xauthorization using MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE on my servers\n(CPU heads, HP700RX Xterminals), but I'm running into a couple of problems.\n\nFirst, at least one of our applications (Maple) doesn't seem to understand \nhow to deliver the magic cookie, and won't run on a display with authorization\nturned on. \n\nSecond, we have people with client software on remote machines, and I\nreally don't want to hassle them with having to copy their .Xauthority\nfile to the remote machine... assuming that the clients there support\nXauthorization.\n\nSo, what I would like to do is turn on MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE by default, with\nnon-privileged users able to turn it off - dropping back to host-based\nauthorization.\n\n(Yes, I know how to turn it off by changing the Xconfig file for the\nheads and the Client Authorize setting for the Xterminals, but\nnon-privileged users can't do this.)\n\nI've checked with the HP Support Line, and there doesn't appear to be a way.\nCan anyone confirm this, or do you know of a way to accomplish what I\nwant?\n\nBTW, I'm running HPUX 9.0, and Vue 3.0.\n\nThanks in advance,\nRick\n-- \n\nRick McTeague\nElectrical Engineering Department, Speed Scientific School\nUniversity of Louisville, Louisville, KY 40292\n(502) 588-7020\n\nInternet: sysrick@starbase.spd.louisville.edu", "I have a Sherwood stereo receiver which I received as a gift, and would\nlike to sell, as I already own a system. It is the Sherwood model RX-4010R\nIt is brand new, still factory sealed. This is a high quality surround-\nsound amp ( 160 Watts, 250 Watts Dynamic Headroom Power ), very highly\nrated by Consumer Reports ( March, 1993 ). Has 4 audio inputs, and Pre-amp\nand Main-amp connection jacks for added flexibility. Includes 2-year\nfactory warranty. Comes with remote. \n\nAsking $210 \n\nReply Subject: Receiver", "I've been using version 2.5.2 of ghostscript, and I'm quite satisfied\nwith it. There are, actually, 3 versions: a plain dos version, a 386\nversion, and a windows version.", "Hi everybody out there,\nI just got the third beta release disk (march 93) of WindowsNT\nand still am not able to boot up that system. The final step\nachieved is the display of IO-error 0x0069. But, since this is\nthe beta release of the SDK for NT and not of NT, Microsoft does\nnot include a manual on the OS itself, explaining what this\nerror means of what I can do to get rid of. My configuration\nis: \nMainboard Hauppauge 4860-25, rev. A7 (a 486 with socket for i860)\n 28megs of memory (512k*36,1M*36,2M*36)\nAMI EISA SCSI controller (15series), latest bios, 16MB cache \n ST41200N hard disk\n Syquest 555 removable disk\n Toshiba 3301 CD ROM drive\nProAudio Spectrum Plus 16\nLongshine Ethernet card LCS8634 (NE2000 comp.)\nET4000 graphics card, 1Meg (ColorImage5)\nThe system is running fine under DOS and Windows 3.1 etc, but\ntrying to do the setup for NT,\n- automatic setup does not recognize controller (AHA1542-compat.)\n when adding manually, NT complains not finging any CD-ROM drive\n- the manual setup (WINNT) does not copy everything from CD to HD,\n does not recognize controller, but takes it manually.\n Setup continues until it tries to boot. Then it starts loading\n several stuff from disk (seems to fing the HD), but messing up\n with that damned IO-Error 69.\nI took away all IO cards not essential, but that did not make any\neffect.\nAnybody got any ideas? Help would be greatly appreciated.", "Fellow netters,\n\nI have an Okidata printer I would like to sell. A description follows:\n\nOkidata 180 printer including cables for both IBM compatibles (Centronics\nparallel) and Commodore (RS-232 - round). Also includes power cable, manual,\nand a handful of computer paper to get you started. This is a 9-pin printer. \nI recently cleaned the printhead and installed a new ribbon. A print sample \ncan be provided upon request. This is a very dependable printer - it never\njams or does \"weird\" things. I have used it with a Commodore for about 3 years\nand am now using it with my 486sx. I use mainly WordPerfect 5.1 (see next\npost) for which I got a driver (at no charge) that directly supports the \nOkidata 180 in Epson FX mode. \n\nWhen I got the printer, it was selling for around $200-220 new (I got mine\nfrom Tenex brand new - for a Christmas present). I would like to get about\n$100 or so for it. If you are interested at all in it, please give me a ring\n(E-Mail) and make an offer.", "\n\tI'm told that some of these companies often sell a plastic, throw\naway after one use, version of the Torx driver, so ask before you buy...\n\t\t\t\t\tMichael", "Hi. I'm trying to figure out how to make a window manager\nplace the window where the create window command tells it,\nregardless of what it may think is right. (my application has\nreason to know better)\n\n\tI don't want to set the override-redirect because I do\nwant all the embellishments that the window manager gives, I just\nwant the wm to accept my choice of location.\n\n\tI've tried twm, tvtwm and mwm and they are all\nuncooperative.", "It happened to my classic ii once. At startup, after the usual powerup\ntone, there were chimes (kinda like do(1st)-mi(1st)-sol(1st)-do(2nd) or\n1st C - 1st E - 1st G - 2nd C on the music scale), and it hanged before\ngiving the happy mac. I had to re-powerup.\n\nThis was asked before but I can't remember the answer. I've tried to\nfind the answer from the faqs and other ftp sites but to no avail.\n\nCan anyone tell me what those unusual chimes mean? A spurious memory\ncheck error?", "\nI've had exactly the same problems in Aldus Freehand. I think autotracing\nis one of those \"features\" that barely works, but everybody feels compelled\nto throw it in because the other guys are doing it. :)\n\n\n", "\n\n About as hard as it was to design the Color Classic, since it's\nmonitor behaves in just this manner.", "\n[much BS deleted for brevity]\n\n\nIt certainly smacks of that! Remember the \"POLL\" that you quoted saying that\nyou had seen a 95% of users being satisfied with DOS 6.0? Care to recall how\nunbiased the sample set was? That post sure looked like FUD....and coming\nfrom a microsoftie .... well, it sure seemed like something was not on level.\n\nAdvocacy is GOOD - but spreading FUD to advocate your favorite OS is very \nunethical - especially when you have a vested interest in the success of that\nOS.\n\n\nThat is because their actions seem to invite this opinion - never seen more \ndefensive people in my life. Moreover, many of their posts seem to encourage\nthis too, IMHO.\n\nSeriously speaking, it is a shame that MS techie employees get the heat for\nMS's actions - most of which are perpetrated by the Management and marketing.\nI am sure that they ARE very talented etc ... I have not doubts about their \nabilities, just about the ethics of their marketing practices.\n\nDivya\n-- \nDivya", "I recently compiled the X11R5pl22 sources using gcc-2.3.3 on\na Sun3/80. Everything seems to work fine. Usually. But at\nseemingly random times the server will just hang. I will\nclick the mouse somewhere (never happens while my back is turned),\nand without warning, it will freeze there, requiring the server\nto be killed. Sometimes it will run fine for weeks, sometimes\nonly for minutes.\n\n(Os: 4.1.1; frame buffer: bw2).\n\nHas anyone seen this before, any ideas? (anything at all?)\n\nthanks,\n\t--jeff\n", "Anyone have a price quote/vendor for the vx to centris 650 upgrade?\nI've been quoted a price of $2401 till August 15th after which it will\ncost $2732. This of course doesn't include the trade-in rebate of\n$1300 for the vx board. Thus for $1101 one gets a Centris 650, 8 meg\nonboard with both the FPU and Ethernet. Anyone else have any info?\nThis price is from the University of Illinois micro-order center, are\nthere any other vendors who offer similar prices?\n\n\njohann", "eu> Apple does not authorise sales through Mail Order. As a result mail\n eu> order companies have to obtain their machines by the grey market.\n eu> \n eu> This market is supplied with machines from authorised resellers who\n eu> have more machines than they can sell. They come into this state of\n eu> affairs by overordering either accidentally or deliberatly to get a\n eu> better wholsale price from Apple. In either case they often obscure\n eu> the serial nunber to protect their identity. As a result the warranty\n eu> is void.\n \nI have ordered several Macs from different mail order companies with absolutely zero problem. You have to dig around to find the true gray market dealers that sell Macs with authentic serial numbers untouched. There are value-added dealers (nothing to do with VAT, no flame please) that are very legitimate.\n\nCDA unfortunately is one of those that replace the serial number with their own to prevent Apple from tracing which authorized dealer sold that machine to CDA.", "I have a new 25 MHz Motorola 68040 that I am willing to sell if I get\na good enough offer. It is still in its static free sealed package.\n\nIf I don't get a good enough offer, I will use it to replace my 68LC040.\n\nAny takers? \n\nSupposedly you can get one of these for $375. However, at the moment the\ndemand is higher than the supply so I think $400 is a good round number.\nI will pay shipping, of course.", "I look at zApp and really liked it. However, I think you should\nwait for version 2.0 (I think it will be out soon).", "\nThey did. For $950K.", "\nAlright. Ignore this. I have delved a bit deeper (XKeyEvent) and\nfound what I was looking for.\n\nev->state has a bunch of masks to check against (LockMask is the one\nfor CapsLock). Unfortunately, it appears that the NumLock mask varies\nfrom server to server. How does one tell what mask is numlock and\nwhich are for Meta (Mod1Mask, Mod2Mask, Mod3Mask, Mod4Mask, Mod5Mask).\neg, SGI's vendor server has Mod2Mask being NumLock, whereas Solaris\n1.0.1 OpenWindows 3.0 has Mod3Mask for NumLock. Is there an\nunambiguous means of determining NumLock's mask at runtime for any\ngiven server? Sorry for the wasted bandwidth and my appalling ignorance.", "yet another twist ...\n\nI'm expiriencing the same kind of problem with my SE (2.5/40), although not\nas frequent.\n\nAny suggestions?\n", " I'm interested in a center channel for my home theater. If yu have one \nand would be interested in selling one please let me know. Thanks. Prefer\nably an Infinity or Polk Audio.\n\n", "Are there any graphics cards for the SE/30 that also have, say, an 040\naccelerator? There seem to be plenty of accelerator/graphics cards for\nthe _SE_, but none (that I've seen) for the SE/30.\n\nThanks", "The subject line says it all -- I'm trying to locate a copy of SPI's\nboard game \"War of the Ring.\" Anyone have a copy with which they are\nwilling to part?\n\nThanks a million ...", "\nOf course you should be able to write a DD 720Kb disk without\nmaking any holes.", " Hi:\n Does anybody known how much about to buy an ethernet card for mac se ?\n Besides,Where do I goto buy.If I buy it by mail-order,which brand is suitable for mac se(the network is coxial wire).Thanks a lot.\n Could anybody tell me what to do? Thank you.\n\n\n \n", "\nI find this thread on motif accelerators absoultly amazing. If I were\nwriting an interface to keyboard accelerators, I would have one\nresource called \"accelerators\" that took a translation table, period.\nI would also implement it so that programmer never has to do any work\nto get the accelerators installed. As soon as the end-user specified\none, it would be active and automatically installed.\n\nTo get multiple accelerators on a single menu item I'd do something like:\n\n\t*menuItem.accelerators: #override \\n\\\n\t\tCtrlM:\tfire() \\n\\\n\t\tShiftL:\tfire() \\n\n\nThe accelerators would work exactly like translations and you would\nautomatically see a \"Ctrl M\" show up in your menuItem object.\n\nWhy in the world is the motif stuff so complicated with so many different\nspecial cases depending on what type of widget you're dealing with? There\nhas to be some reason.\n\nSorry for the political tone of this message...\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\nWell, I dived in feet first and reverse engineered the .PRJ file as much\nas I needed to - extracted the mapping icon information - which is\nwhen it dawned on me that 3D Studio is useless for my needs. I need\na mapping icon per applied texture. I want to use a special purpose\ngraphics computer for rendering the 3DS models and it requires a texture\nrule/plane to be specified in 3Space, i.e. position/orientation of the\nmapping rule. Since only one mapping icon is used in 3DS to apply\ntextures to ALL objects/faces, it renders (no pun intended) 3DS totally\nunsuitable for my needs.\n\nAnyone got a contact for Alias Upfront or any other good modeller for a\nPC? I must be able to specify texture rules (one per texture) and this\nmust be saved in a file which I can read. I haven't found any info on Alias\nin the copy of the faq that I have.", "Hi there,\n\nI've made a VGA mode 13h graphics library available via FTP. I originally\nwrote the routines as a kind of exercise for myself, but perhaps someone\nhere will find them useful. They are certainly useable as they are, but\nare missing some higher-level functionality. They're intended more as an\nintro to mode 13h programming, a starting point.\n\n*** The library assumes a 386 processor, but it is trivial to modify it\n*** for a 286. If enough people ask, I'll make the mods and re-post it as a\n*** different version.\n\nThe routines are written in assembly (TASM) and are callable from C. They\nare fairly simple, but I've found them to be very fast (for my purposes,\nanyway). Routines are included to enter and exit mode 13h, define a\n\"virtual screen\", put and get pixels, put a pixmap (rectangular image with\nno transparent spots), put a sprite (image with see-thru areas), copy\nareas of the virtual screen into video memory, etc. I've also included a\nsimple C routine to draw a line, as well as a C routine to load a 256\ncolor GIF image into a buffer. I also wrote a quick'n'dirty(tm) demo program\nthat bounces a bunch of sprites around behind three \"windows\".\n\nThe whole package is available on spang.camosun.bc.ca in /pub/dos/vgl.zip \nIt is zipped with pkzip 2.04g\n\nIt is completely in the public domain, as far as I'm concerned. Do with\nit whatever you like. However, it'd be nice to get credit where it's due,\nand maybe an e-mail telling me you like it (if you don't like it don't bother)", "\nWell, almost NuBUS 90 anyway, comprehensive bus contention between processors\nis not supported in the current Macintoshes, could be wrong?\n\nHowever, I know for a fact from seeing the Cyclone Data Spec sheets myself,\ndon't ask, Macintosh Cyclone models will provide full implementation of the\nNuBUS standard.\n\nVery interesting possibilities indeed!\n", "I know of two people who have horrer stories about the DOS 6.0. \nThat's 100% of the people I know with DOS 6.0. Both have\nhad to reformat their disks and start over. One had drive D compress and work\nfine, only to compress C: to have the thing choke, spit out an unintelligable\nwarning, and then hang. All that was left on either drive was autoexec.bat\nand config.sys. Calls to Microsoft only met with busy signals. After reformatting\nthe drive, I'm not sure if he had the guts to reinstall 6.0 or stay with a known\nentity.\n\nThe other may have been a marginal drive, however, his upgrade failed,\nhe had to format a floppy disk at 6.0, format the drive, and then reinstall.\n\nI make now claims since I was not driving at the time, however, be careful\nand make sure you back important things up.", "GRE software for MS-DOS, from StudyWare. original disk, manual.\nTutorial stuff,tests, examples and a lot more.\nRetail price is around $50.\n\nBest offer around $15.00, will pay shipping\n\nFor best results, you need a graphic display card, EGA or VGA", "\n\nHere's the story:\n\n(1) The IIsi *cannot* supply a VGA output. However...\n\n(2) Some VGA-type monitors can adequately deal with the video signal\nthe Mac uses to drive the Apple 13 or 14 inch \"high resolution color\ndisplay\"---i.e., Apple's own 640x480 mode.\n\nSo, if you wish to hook one of these monitors up to your IIsi, you\nneed (a) an adapter that converts from the Mac DB-15 connector to the\nVGA-style high density DB-15 connector, *but* tells the Mac to use\nit's own 640x480 mode, not the VGA 640x480 mode, and (b) a VGA monitor\nthat can deal with the higher bandwidth of the Mac 640x480 mode over\nthe VGA 640x480 mode (which as I stated in (1) above, the IIsi cannot\nproduce).\n\nAs far as (a) above is concerned, contact\n\n James Engineering, Inc.\n 6329 Fairmount Ave.\n El Cerrito, CA 94530\n 510-525-7350\n FAX: 510-525-5740\n\nThey can probably get you the right adapter. Remember: you do *not*\nwant the run-of-the-mill Mac-to-VGA adapter, because it will try to\nhave your IIsi produce the VGA mode, which it cannot (the computer\nwill just fail to produce any video signal at all). Instead, you want\nan adapter that connects between the Mac-style and VGA-style\nconnectors, but tells the Mac to use the Apple 640x480 mode. Sorry\nfor the poor terminology available for describing this distinction.\n\nAs far as (b) is concerned, make sure to get a monitor that can deal\nwith a horizontal bandwidth of 35 KHz and a vertical retrace rate of\n67 Hz. These are the spec's of Apple's 640x480 mode. For comparison,\nthe VGA-standard 640x480 mode uses a 31.5 KHz horizontal bandwidth and\na 60 Hz. vertical retrace rate.\n\nThe monitor will probably need to have auto-synch'ing capability, as\nthe Apple mode you'll be using isn't one of the set of standard modes\nin the PC compatible world.\n\nGood luck!\n\n\t-Fred Martin\n\n", "\nMight be a good idea... The resolution you requested is about 0.3mV\nIn order to get what you've paid for, noise level better be lower than\nthat. It is kind of hard to do it in a noisy box like you can expect\ninside a PC.\n\nBefore you pay $$$ for a PC card, test it out by sampling a low\ndistortion sine wave (I think there is a sine wave on a CD. Digital\nDomain ? There are possibly other low THD sources) Run the digitized\nwaveform through a FFT transform and take alook at the noise floor on\nthe spectrum. That's should give you a good indication of the design.\n(That's what I am doing to test a data acquistion system I have designed\n- I got the idea from MAXIM data sheet.)\n\nIf you can live with 14 bit resolution, I would recommend looking at\nthe MAX121 from MAXIM. It is a high speed (308KHz) complete\nsampling A/D with DSP interface. The input range is +/- 5V and it\nuses a serial interface (which can easily be optically isolated\nfrom the computer to elinimate a major noise source) The Analog design\nguide I got from them shows a -100db noise level. They claim a -77db\nmax (-85 typ.) THD. Looks pretty good for the $12 @ 1000 pieces\n\nA evaluation kit is available. Might want to give these nice folks a\ncall. 1-800-998-8800 or fax: (408)737-7194 and (408) 737-7600 ext4000\nfor application assistance.\n\nThis assumes that you can build your own DAS and write your own software.\n(Hey you can get the MAX121 as a free sample just by calling the 1-800 #)\n\n\nI would recommend you to find out the resolution that can be gotten out\nof your system by looking at the noise level, otherwise you might be\nthrowing out your money.\n\n\nK. C. Lee\nElec. Eng. Grad. Student", "\nThe RS6000 compiler is so forgiving, I think that if you mixed COBOL & pascal\nthe C compiler still wouldn't complain. :-)\n\nSteve\n-- ", "Hi,\n\n\tI have a Quantum ProDrive LPS 40 MB SCSI hard drive for sale.\n\tIt came with my MacIIsi and was replaced by a larger hard drive.\n\tIn great working condition. Fast and quiet. Never had a problem.\n\n\tAsking $100+COD shipping or reasonable offer.\n\n\tAlso for sale with the drive:\n\n\tBrand new mounting bracket for MacII or MacSE. It also includes\n\tSCSI data and power cable. $10 with the HD.\n\n\tPlease reply with email or call (217)337-5710 and leave message.\n\n\tThanks.\n\nDing-Kai Chen\ndcg6759@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu", "\n\n\nA developable surface is s.t. you can lay it (or roll it) flat on the\nplane (it may require you to give it a \"cut\" though...)\n\nE.g., a cylinder, a cone, a plane (of course!) or any surface or patch\nhaving vanishing Gaussian (intrinsic) curvature (i.e., with singular\nHessian, the matrix of 2nd derivatives for an adequate coordinate patch)\nare \"developable\". In more technical words, a developable surface is\n\"locally isometric to a plane\" at all points.\n\n\nThink also of the sphere (or the earth) which in a non-developable:\nwhatever way(s) you cut it, you will not be able to lay flat any pieces\nof it... (its intrinsic curvature is nowhere vanishing).\n\nFor more details on this look at any book on differential geometry\nwhich treats surfaces (2D manifolds); e.g., M. do Carmo's book:\n\n@Book{Carmo76Differential,\n author = {do Carmo, Manfredo P.},\n title = {Differential Geometry of Curves and Surfaces},\n year = 1976,\n publisher = {Prentice-Hall},\n note = {503 pages.}}\n\nEnjoy!", "\n\n What paper is that? It's been on the price list here at Dartmouth\nsince they released it and it has never been called the \"DuoDock Plus.\" ", "\nPlaymation is available direct from Anjon & Associates for $299. It's hard\nto beat that price. Also, you'd be better off with a newer version than\nan older version that had bugs that have long since been clobbered. \n\n\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\nI would really appreciate if when someone brought something like\nthis up they didn't back out when someone asked for details.", "\n\n\nProbably, but the point is THE COMPANY make the registration patch, NOT\nYOU. Sure, you can probably find another registerred user and compare notes,\nbut WHY? It's not hindering you in any way unless you are just hacking.\n[Problem about people who cut TOO MUCH from quoting...]\n\n\nNothing, but if you read my WHOLE suggestion, I'm saying that you register\nvia MAIL by mailing in your registration card, THEN the company send you\nthe patch which includes the info you put on the registration card.", "Has anyone experienced a faint shadow at all resolutions using this\ncard. Is only in Windows. I have replaced card and am waiting on \nlatest drivers. Also have experienced General Protection Fault Errors\nin WSPDPSF.DRV on Winword Tools Option menu and in WINFAX setup.\nI had a ATI Ultra but was getting Genral Protection Fault errors\nin an SPSS application. These card manufactures must have terrible\nquality control to let products on the market with so many bugs.\nWhat a hassle. Running on Gateway 2000 DX2/50.\nThx Dave L\n", "First of all, thanks to those of you who responded, both here and via e-mail.\nThe tips didn't pan out, but it was good hearing from you.\n\nNow, following up to my earlier post:\n[...]\n: Disk controller: Acculogic sIDE-3 2 hard/2 floppy IDE controller\n: Jumpers: All defaulted (shown as *): \n: Normal IRQ*/delayed IRQ Primary*/secondary floppy address\n: Single*/dual speed floppy Primary*/secondary IDE address\n: Precomp = 125ns*/187 ns IOCHRDY not driven*/IDE drive controls IOCHRDY\n[...]\n: Other cards: (didn't check brand) 2 Serial/1 Parallel adapter\n: \t Logitech Bus Mouse adapter\n: \t Roland MPU-401-compatible MIDI interface \n: \t\tConfigured with default IRQ 2, mem address 0330\n\nI opened up the box and removed all the \"other cards\" above. No help there.\nThen, not having anything better to try, I changed Normal IRQ to Delayed\nIRQ on the disk controller (didn't make any difference) and IOCHRDY_not_\ndriven to IDE_drive_controls_IOCHRDY (also had no effect). So I put \neverything back to the way it was and re-installed the cards.\n\nI then unplugged the floppy drive cable from the disk controller. Voila!,\nthe PC booted from power up, although it seemed to take several seconds \nbefore the first access to the hard disk. Plug the floppy cable back\nto the controller and the original (non-boot) behavior returns.\n\nO.K., with this additional information, does anyone in netland have any \nwords of wisdom for what's going on and how I should deal with it?", "Archive-name: x-faq/part3\nLast-modified: 1993/04/04\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 58)! Where can I get patches to X11R5?\n\n\tThe release of new public patches by the MIT X Consortium is announced\nin the comp.windows.x.announce newsgroup.\n\n\tPatches themselves are available via ftp from export and from other\nsites from which X11 is available. They are now also distributed through the \nnewsgroup comp.sources.x. Some source re-sellers may be including patches in \ntheir source distributions of X11.\n\n\tPeople without ftp access can use the xstuff mail server. It now has \n23 patches for X11R5 [3/93]. Send to xstuff@expo.lcs.mit.edu the Subject line\n\t\tsend fixes #\nwhere # is the name of the patch and is usually just the number of the patch.\n\n\tHere are a few complications:\n\t1) fix 5 is in four parts; you need to request \"5a\", \"5b\", \"5c\" and \n\"5d\" separately\n\t2) the file sunGX.uu, which was part of an earlier patch, was \nre-released with patch 7 [note: the file doesn't work with Solaris]\n\t3) fix 8 is in two parts: \"8a\" and \"8b\"\n\t4) fix 13 is in three parts: \"13a\", \"13b\", and \"13c\"\n\t5) fix 16 is in two parts: \"16a\" and \"16b\"\n\t6) fix 18 replaces the R5fix-test1 for the X Test Suite, which \npreviously was optional\n\t7) fix 19 also needs PEXlib.tar.Z, which you can obtain from xstuff\nby asking for \"PEXlib.uu.[1234]\".\n\t8) fix 22 is in 9 parts, \"22a\" through \"22i\"\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 59) What is the xstuff mail-archive?\n\n\tThe xstuff server is a mail-response program. That means that you mail \nit a request, and it mails back the response.\n\tAny of the four possible commands must be the first word on a line. The\nxstuff server reads your entire message before it does anything, so you can \nhave several different commands in a single message (unless you ask for help). \nThe xstuff server treats the \"Subject:\" header line just like any other line \nof the message.\n\tThe archives are organized into a series of directories and \nsubdirectories. Each directory has an index, and each subdirectory has an \nindex. The top-level index gives you an overview of what is in the \nsubdirectories, and the index for each subdirectory tells you what is in it.\n\n\t1) The command \"help\" or \"send help\" causes the server to send you a \nmore detailed version of this help file.\n\t2) if your message contains a line whose first word is \"index\", then \nthe server will send you the top-level index of the contents of the archive. If\nthere are other words on that line that match the name of subdirectories, then \nthe indexes for those subdirectories are sent instead of the top-level index. \nFor example, you can say \"send index fixes\" (or \"index fixes\"). A message that \nrequests an index cannot request data.\n\t3) if your message contains a line whose first word is \"send\", then the\nxstuff server will send you the item(s) named on the rest of the line. To name \nan item, you give its directory and its name. For example\n send fixes 1 4 8a 8b 9\n\tYou may issue multiple send requests. The xstuff server contains many \nsafeguards to ensure that it is not monopolized by people asking for large \namounts of data. The mailer is set up so that it will send no more than a fixed\namount of data each day. If the work queue contains more requests than the \nday's quota, then the unsent files will not be processed until the next day. \nWhenever the mailer is run to send its day's quota, it sends the requests out \nshortest-first.\n\t4) Some mailers produce mail headers that are unusable for extracting \nreturn addresses. If you use such a mailer, you won't get any response. If \nyou happen to know an explicit path, you can include a line like\n path foo%bar.bitnet@mitvma.mit.edu\nor\n path bar!foo!frotz\nin the body of your message, and the daemon will use it.\n\n\tThe xstuff server itself can be reached at xstuff@expo.lcs.mit.edu. If \nyour mailer deals in \"!\" notation, try sending to \n{someplace}!mit-eddie!expo.lcs.mit.edu!xstuff.\n\n[based on information from the MIT X Consortium, 8/89, 4/90.]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 60)! Where can I get X11R4 (source and binaries)?\n\n\tIntegrated Computer Solutions, Inc., ships X11R4 on half-inch, \nquarter-inch, and TK50 formats. Call 617-621-0060 for ordering information.\n\n\tThe Free Software Foundation (617-876-3296) sells X11R4 on half-inch \ntapes and on QIC-24 cartridges. \n\n\tYaser Doleh (doleh@math-cs.kent.EDU; P.O. Box 1301, Kent, OH 44240) is\nmaking X11R4 available on HP format tapes, 16 track, and Sun cartridges. [2/90]\n\n\tEuropean sites can obtain a free X11R4 distribution from Jamie Watson,\nwho may be reached at chx400!pan!jw or jw@pan.uu.ch. [10/90]\n\n\tNon Standard Logics (+33 (1) 43 36 77 50; requests@nsl.fr) makes source\navailable.\n\n\tIXI Limited (+44 223 462 131) is selling X11R4 source on quarter-inch \ncartridge formats and on 5.25\" and 3.5\" floppy, with other formats available on\nrequest. [IXI, 2/90]\n\n\tVirtual Technologies (703-430-9247) provides the entire X11R4 \ncompressed source release on a single QIC-24 quarter-inch cartridge and also on\n1.2meg or 1.44 meg floppies upon request. [Conor Cahill \n(cpcahil@virtech.uu.net) 2/90]\n\n\tYoung Minds (714-335-1350) makes the R4 and GNU distributions available\non a full-text-indexed CD-ROM.\n\n[Note that some distributions are media-only and do not include docs.]\n\n\tX11R4 is ftp-able from export.lcs.mit.edu; these sites are preferable, \nthough, and are more direct:\n\n Machine Internet FTP\n Location Name Address Directory\n -------- ------- -------- -------------\n(1) West USA gatekeeper.dec.com 16.1.0.2 pub/X11/R4\n Central USA mordred.cs.purdue.edu 128.10.2.2 pub/X11/R4\n(2) Central USA giza.cis.ohio-state.edu 128.146.8.61 pub/X.V11R4\n Southeast USA uunet.uu.net 192.48.96.2 X/R4\n(3) Northeast USA crl.dec.com 192.58.206.2 pub/X11/R4\n(4) UK Janet src.doc.ic.ac.uk 129.31.81.36 X.V11R4\n UK niftp uk.ac.ic.doc.src \n(5) Australia munnari.oz.au 128.250.1.21 X.V11/R4\n\nThe giza.cis.ohio-state.edu site, in particular, is known to have much of the\ncontrib stuff that can be found on export. \n\nThe release is available to DEC Easynet sites as CRL::\"/pub/X11/R4\".\n\nSites in Australia may contact this address: ftp.Adelaide.EDU.AU [129.127.40.3]\nand check the directory pub/X/R4. The machine shadows export and archives\ncomp.sources.x. (Mark Prior, mrp@ucs.adelaide.edu.au, 5/90)\n\nNote: a much more complete list is distributed as part of the introductory \npostings to comp.sources.x.\n\nA set of X11R4 binaries built by Tom Roell (roell@informatik.tu-muenchen.de) \nfor the 386/ix will available from export.lcs.mit.edu in /contrib and in \n/pub/i386/X11R4 from 131.159.8.35 in Europe. Stephen Hite \n(shite@sinkhole.unf.edu) can also distribute to folks without ftp facilities \nvia disks sent SASE; contact him for USmail and shipping details. [12/90] In \naddition, the binaries are available via uucp from szebra [1-408-739-1520, TB+ \n(PEP); ogin:nuucp sword:nuucp] in /usr2/xbbs/bbs/x. In addition, the source is\non zok in /usrX/i386.R4server/. [2/91] In addition, if you are in the US, the \nlatest SVR4 binary (April 15), patches, and fonts are available on \npiggy.ucsb.edu (128.111.72.50) in the directory /pub/X386, same filenames as \nabove. (Please use after 6pm Pacific, as these are large files.) [5/91]\n\nA set of HP 9000/800 binaries is available on hpcvaaz.cv.hp.com (15.255.72.15)\nas ~ftp/pub/MitX11R4/libs.x800.Z. [2/91]\n\nA set of X11R4 binaries for the NeXT 2.x have been made available by Howie Kaye\non cunixf.cc.columbia.edu\n\nA set of binaries by John Coolidge (coolidge@cs.uiuc.edu) for the Mac running \nA/UX 2.0 is available from wuarchive.wustl.edu in the file\n(/archive/systems/aux/X11R4/Xupdate2.tar.Z). Also in X11R4/diffs is a set of \npatches for making X11R4 with shared libraries with mkshlib.\n\nA complete distribution of SCO X11R4 binaries by Baruch Cochavy \n(blue@techunix.technion.ac.il) can be found on uunet. The server is Roell's \nX386 1.1b, compiled for ET4000 based SVGA boards.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 61) Where can I get OSF/Motif?\n\t\n\tYou can obtain either OSF/Motif source or binaries from a number of \nvendors. \n\tMotif 1.2.2 source is now available; it is based on X11R5.\n\tMotif 1.1 is based on the R4.18 Intrinsics and is currently [7/92] at \n1.1.5.\n\tAn OSF/Motif source license must be obtained from OSF before source can\nbe obtained from the Open Software Foundation or any value-added vendor for\nany version. Call the Direct Channels Desk at OSF at 617-621-7300 for ordering \ninformation.\n\tVarious hardware vendors produce developer's toolkits of binaries, \nheader files, and documentation; check your hardware vendor, particularly if\nthat vendor is an OSF member. \n\tIn addition, independent binary vendors produce Motif toolkits for\nmachines for which Motif is not supported by a vendor; the kits include varied \nlevels of bug-fixing and support for shared libraries and are based on widely\ndivergent version of Motif:\n\tQuest (408-988-8880) sells kits for Suns, as well; \n\tIXI (+44 223 462 131) offers kits for Sun3 and Sun4. \n\tNSL (+33 (1) 43 36 77 50; requests@nsl.fr) offers kits for the Sun 3 \nand Sun 4.\n\tBluestone Consulting makes a kit for Sun systems.\n\tICS (617-62-0060) makes several binary kits, notably for Sun, DEC.\n\tHP and DEC have announced support for Motif on Sun systems.\n\tUnipalm (+44-954-211-797) currently offers for Sun systems a Motif \nDevelopment Kit including X11R4 and based on Motif 1.1.2. The US distributor is\nExpert Object Corp (708-926-8500).\n\tBIM ships Motif 1.1 binaries for Suns. Shared library support is \nincluded. Contact Alain Vermeiren (av@sunbim.be) or Danny Backx (db@sunbim.be) \nat +32(2)759.59.25 (Fax : +32(2)759.47.95) (Belgium).\n\tSILOGIC (+33 61.57.95.95) ships Motif 1.2 and Motif 1.1 on Sun \nmachines.\n\tS.I. Systems offers Motif 1.2 for Solaris 2.1; info: 1-800-755-8649 in\nUSA and Canada.\n\tMetro Link Inc. (305-970-7353, sales@metrolink.com; in Europe contact\nADNT, (33 1) 3956 5333, UniVision (UK) Ltd. (44) 628 82 22 81) ships an \nimplementation of X11R4 and Motif 1.1.2 (including a shared-library \nimplementation of libXm.a) for the 386/486 Unix market. Motif 1.1.2 is \nalso available for Sun Sparc based workstations. It has also announced \nMotif 1.2 for Solaris systems.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 62) Does Motif work with X11R4? X11R5?\n\n\tMotif 1.2 is based on X11R5.\n\tMotif 1.1, available in source form from OSF as of August 1990, uses \nthe \"vanilla\" X11R4 Intrinsics, where \"vanilla\" means \"with just a few \npatches\"; the file fix-osf which OSF distributes is obsoleted by MIT's patches \n15-17. The file fix-osf-1.1.1 distributed with the 1.1.1 version or its \nsubsequent modification needs to be applied after MIT fix-18, though.\n\n\tMotif 1.1.1 to 1.1.3 will work with X11R5 if X11R5 is compiled with\n-DMOTIFBC; 1.1.4 and later should work with the vanilla R5, although there are \nsome known new geometry-management problems.\n\t\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 63) Where can I get toolkits implementing OPEN LOOK?\n\n\tSun's XView has a SunView-style API. A version is on the X11R4 tape;\nthe latest [2/92] 3.0 sources are on export in contrib/xview3/.\n\tXView and X binaries for the Sun 386i (\"roadrunner\") are available for \nftp from svin01.win.tue.nl (131.155.70.70), directory pub/X11R4_386i.\n\tSupported binaries of XView 2.0 or 3.0 include: \n\nXView for non-Sun Platforms (domestic and selected international vendors).\nSeveral are also available from Sun; contact your local sales office.\n\nAmiga\t\tGfxBase, Inc.\t\t1881 Ellwell Drive\n(AmigaDOS)\t(408) 262-1469\t\tMilpitas, CA 95035\n\t\tFax: (408) 262-8276\n\nSGI\nSony (NEWS-OS)\nIBM RS/6000\nHP 9000\nDECstation\tUniPress Software\t2025 Lincoln Highway\n(Ultrix)\t(908) 985-8000\t\tEdison, NJ 08817\n\t\tFax: (908) 287-4929\n\n\t\tUniPress Software, Ltd.\t\tPO Box 70\n\t\t44-624-661-8850\t\t\tViking House\n\t\tFax: 44-624-663-453\t\tNelson Street\n\t\t\t\t\t\tDouglas, Isle of Man\n\t\t\t\t\t\tUnited Kingdom\n\nDEC VAXstation\tTGV\t\t\t603 Mission Street\n(VMS)\t\t(800) TGV-3440\t\tSanta Cruz, CA 95060\n\t\t(408) 427-4366\n\t\tFax: (408) 427-4365\n\n\t\tUnipalm Ltd.\t\t\t145-147 St. Neots Road\n\t\t44-0954-211797\t\t\tHardwick\n\t\tFax: 44-0954-211244\t\tCambridge CB3 7QJ\n\t\t\t\t\t\tEngland\n\nIntel 386\tQuarterdeck Office\t150 Pico Boulevard\n(DOS)\t\tSystems\t\t\tSanta Monica, CA 90405\n\t\t(213) 392-9851\n\t\tFax: (213) 399-3802\n\nIntel 386\tSunSoft Corporation\t6601 Center Drive West\n(Interactive\t310-348-8649\t\tSuite 700\n UNIX and\t\t\t\tLos Angeles, CA 90045\n SCO UNIX)\t\n\nStardent\tScripps Institute\tClinic MB-5\n(Stellix OS\tFax: (619) 554-4485\t10666 N. Torrey Pines Road\n and Titan OS)\tInclude mailstop MB-5\tLa Jolla, CA 92057\n\t\tBy ftp: 192.42.82.8 in pub/binary/{Xview.README,XView.tar.Z}\n\n\tAT&T's OPEN LOOK GUI 3.0 Xt-based toolkit is now generally available \n[2/92]; contact 1-800-828-UNIX#544 for information. Binaries are produced\nfor SPARC systems by International Quest Corporation (408-988-8289). A version\nof the toolkit is also produced under the name OLIT by Sun. \n\tMore recent versions of OLIT have been ported to IBM 6000 and DEC MIPS \nby both UniPress and ICS. OLIT is also available for HP from Melillo Consulting\n(908-873-0075). MJM (Somerset, NJ) makes OLIT 4.0 for HP 7xx series running\nHPUX 8.0, DECstations, and RS/6000s [thanks to Joanne Newbauer, \njo@attunix.att.com, 908-522-6677.]\n\n\tSun is shipping OpenWindows 3.0; contact your local sales \nrepresentative for more details; the package includes toolkit binaries and \nheader files.\n\n\tParcPlace's (formerly Solbourne's) extensible C++-based Object \nInterface Library, which supports run-time selection between Open Look or \nMotif, is available from 303-678-4626. [5/92]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 64)! Where can I get other X sources? (including R5 modifications)\n\n\tThe MIT Software Center ships the X Test Suite on tape.\n\n\tA multi-threaded version of Xlib based on X11R5 patch 12 is now \navailable for anonymous FTP from (new version 1/93):\n DEC on gatekeeper.dec.com (16.1.0.2) in /pub/X11/contrib/mt-xlib-1.1\n MIT on export.lcs.mit.edu (18.24.0.12) in /contrib/mt-xlib-1.1\n\n\tHP has made available drivers to permit the building of the X11R5\nsample server on the HP 9000 Series 700 workstations; the files are on\nexport.lcs.mit.edu in ~ftp/contrib/R5.HP.SRV. [8/92]\n\n\tUser-contributed software is distributed through the newsgroup\ncomp.sources.x, moderated by Chris Olson (chris@imd.sterling.com); also check \nthat group for posting information.\n\n\tRichard Hesketh (rlh2@ukc.ac.uk) has been creating a list of freely-\navailable X sources. The list is stored on export.lcs.mit.edu in contrib as\nx-source-list.Z. It lists the main storage locations for the program and \ninternational sites from which it may be ftp'ed.\n\n\tThe machine export.lcs.mit.edu has a great deal of user-contributed\nsoftware in the contrib/ directory; a good deal of it is present in current or \nearlier versions on the X11R3, X11R4, and X11R5 contrib tapes. There are also\ndirectories for fixes to contrib software. The file on export in\ncontrib/00-index.txt is a quick overall index of the software in that area,\nprovided by Daniel Lewart (d-lewart@uiuc.edu).\n\n\tThese sites used to and may still mirror export and are of particular \nuse for Australasia: Anonymous ftp: ftp.Adelaide.EDU.AU; ACSnet Fetchfile: \nsirius.ua.oz.\n\n\tThe material on giza.cis.ohio-state.edu, which tends to duplicate \nthe export archives, is also available via anonymous UUCP from osu-cis, at TB+ \nand V.32 speeds. Write to uucp@cis.ohio-state.edu (same as osu-cis!uucp) for \ninstructions. [the archive is now maintained by Karl Kleinpaste]\n\n\tA new west-coast UUCP X11 Archive is administered by Mark Snitily \n(mark@zok.uucp) and contains the full X11 distribution, the XTEST\ndistribution, an entire archive of comp.sources.x and other goodies.\n\tThe machine zok has a TB+ modem which will connect to 19.2K, 2400, \n1200 baud (in that order). The anonymous UUCP account is UXarch with password \nXgoodies. The modem's phone number is 408-996-8285.\n\tA sample Systems (or L.sys) entry might be:\n \t\tzok Any ACU 19200 4089968285 in:--in: UXarch word: Xgoodies\n\tTo get a current listing of the files that are available, download\nthe file \"/usrX/ls-lR.Z\".\n\tA full subject index of the comp.sources.x files is available in the\nfile \"/usrX/comp.sources.x/INDEX\".\n\tThe machine has just the one modem, so please do not fetch large \namounts of data at one sitting.\n[courtesy Mark Snitily, 2/90]\n\nIn addition, UUNET Source Archives (703-876-5050) tracks comp.sources.x and \nprovides 800MB+ of compressed programs on 6250 bpi tapes or 1/4\" tapes. It \nalso mirrors export/contrib in its packages/X directory.\n\t\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 65)! Where can I get interesting widgets?\n\n\tThe Free Widget Foundation (FWF) library sponsored by Brian Totty \n(totty@cs.uiuc.edu) is now [2/93] available on a.cs.uiuc.edu (128.174.252.1) \nin pub/fwf-v3.41.shar.Z. The set of widgets there is intended to form the basis\nfor future contributions. To be added to the discussion list, send to\nlistserv@cs.uiuc.edu a message saying \"subscribe \"\nwhere is one of free-widgets-announce, free-widgets-development, or \nfree-widgets-bugs. Version 3.4 is current; look for 4.0 in 4/93.\n\tThe Xew widget set contains widgets for data representation. Version \n1.2 [4/93] is on export contrib/Xew-1.2.tar.Z.\n\tPeter Ware's Xo \"Open Widget\" set, which has Motif-like functionality, \nis on archive.cis.ohio-state.edu as pub/Xo/Xo-2.1.tar.Z [8/92].\n\tThe AthenaTools Plotter Widget Set Version 6-beta [7/92] maintained by\nPeter Klingebiel (klin@iat.uni-paderborn.de) includes many graph and plotting \nwidgets; a copy is on export in plotter.v6b.tar.Z, plotter.doc.tar.Z,\nplotter.afm.tar.Z, and plotter.README. The latest versions may in fact be on\nftp@uni-paderborn.de (131.234.2.32) in /unix/tools.\n\tAn advance version of Marc Quinton's Motif port of the FWF MultiList \nwidget is in ftp.stna7.stna.dgac.fr:pub/MultiList.tar.Z [143.196.9.31].\n\tAdditional widgets are available on the contrib/ portion of the X11R4\ntapes; these include the Xcu set.\n\tPaul Johnston's (johnston@spc5.jpl.nasa.gov) X Control Panel widget set\nemulates hardware counterparts; sources are on export.lcs.mit.edu in \nXc-1.3.tar.Z.\n\tO'Reilly Volume 4, Doug Young's book, the Asente/Swick book, and Jerry \nSmith's \"Object-oriented Programming with the X Window System Toolkits\" all \ninclude details on writing widgets and include several useful widgets; sources \nare typically on export and/or UUNET. \n\tThe Dirt interface builder includes the libXukc widet set which extends\nthe functionality of Xaw. \n\tA graph widget and other 2D-plot and 3D-contour widgets by Sundar \nNarasimhan (sundar@ai.mit.edu) are available from ftp.ai.mit.edu as\n/com/ftp/pub/users/sundar/graph.tar.Z. The graph widget has been updated [3/91]\nwith documentation and histogram capabilities.\n\tA graph widget is available from ftp.stna7.stna.dgac.fr in\npub/Graph.tar.Z; it uses a segment list for drawing and hence supports a zoom\noperation.\n\tKen Lee's Xm widget (demo) that uses Display PostScript to draw labels \nat a non-horizontal angle is on export in contrib/dpslabel.tar.Z.\n\tThe Table widget (works like troff TBL tables) is available in several\nflavors, one of which is with the Widget Creation Library release.\n\tBell Communications Research has developed a Matrix widget for complex\napplication layouts; it's on export in contrib/Xbae-widgets-3.8.tar.Z [2/93. \nThe distribution also includes a \"caption\" widget to associate labels with \nparticular GUI components. (7/92)\n\tDan Connolly's (connolly@convex.COM) XcRichText interprets RTF data;\nit's on export as contrib/XcRichText-1.1.tar.Z.\n\tThe XmGraph Motif-based graphing widget is on iworks.ecn.uiowa.edu in\n/comp.hp/GUI_classic/XmGraph.tar.Z although it may not be stable.\n\tA TeX-style Layout widget by Keith Packard is described in the \nproceedings of the 7th MIT Technical Conference (O'Reilly X Resource volume 5);\nsource is available on export contrib/Layout.tar.Z.\n\n\tA version of Lee Iverson's (leei@McRCIM.McGill.EDU) image-viewing tool\nis available as contrib/vimage-0.9.3.tar.Z on export.lcs.mit.edu. The package \nalso includes an ImageViewPort widget and a FileDialog widget. [12/91;5/92] \n\tIn addition, the PEXt toolkit by Rich Thomson (rthomson@dsd.es.com) is \navailable on export as PEXt.tar.Z; it includes a PEX widget making it easier to\nuse PEX in Xt-based programs.\n\tA Motif port of the Xaw clock widget is in ftp.stna7.stna.dgac.fr\nin pub/Clock.tar.Z.\n\tA modification of the Xaw ScrollBar widget which supports the arrowhead\nstyle of other toolkits is on export in contrib/Xaw.Scrollbar.mta.Z.\n\n\tA beta 0.3 (11/92) release of the R5 Xaw widgets with a 3D visual \nappearance by Kaleb Keithley (kaleb@thyme.jpl.nasa.gov) is available on export \nin contrib/Xaw3d/R5/Xaw3d-0.3.tar.Z. The library, which is binary-compatible \nwith the MIT Xaw, implements a 3D subclass which handles the extra drawing.\n\nAlso:\n\tThe Xmt \"Motif Tools\", Dovetail Systems's shareware library of 9 \nwidgets and many convenience functions, is available from \nexport.lcs.mit.edu:contrib and ftp.ora.com:/pub/xbook/Xmt in xmt-README and \nxmt-1.0.tar.Z.\n\tThe Xtra XWidgets set includes widgets for pie and bar charts, XY \nplots, Help, spreadsheets, data entry forms, and line and bar graphs. Contact \nGraphical Software Technology at 310-328-9338 (info@gst.com) for information.\n\tThe XRT/graph widget, available for Motif, XView and OLIT, displays\nX-Y plots, bar and pie charts, and supports user-feedback, fast updates and\nPostScript output. Contact KL Group Inc. at 416-594-1026 (info@klg.com).\n\tA set of data-entry widgets for Motif is available from Marlan \nSoftware, 713-467-1458 (gwg@world.std.com).\n\tA set of graph widgets is available from Expert Database Systems\n(212-370-6700).\n\tA set of OSF/Motif compound widgets and support routines for 2D\nvisualization is available from Ms Quek Lee Hian, National Computer Board,\nRepublic of Singapore; Tel : (65)7720435; Fax : (65)7795966; \nleehian@iti.gov.sg, leehian@itivax.bitnet.\n\tThe ICS Widget Databook includes a variety of control widgets and \nspecial-purpose widgets, available on a variety of platforms. Information: \n617-621-0060, info@ics.com.\n\tInformation on graphing tools may be obtained from info@TomSawyer.com \n(+1-510-848-0853, fax: +1-510-848-0854).\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 66) Where can I get a good file-selector widget?\n\n\tThe Free Widget Foundation set offers a FileSelector widget, with \nseparate directory path and file listing windows, and the FileComplete, which\nhas emacs-style file completion and ~ expansion. \n\tOther available file-requestor widgets include the XiFileSelector from \nIris Software's book, the xdbx file-selector extracted by David Nedde \n(daven@wpi.wpi.edu), and the FileNominator from the aXe distribution.\n\tThe GhostView, Xfig, and vimage packages also include file-selector \nwidgets.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 67) What widget is appropriate to use as a drawing canvas?\n\n\tSome widget sets have a widget particularly for this purpose -- a\nWorkSpace or DrawingArea which doesn't display anything but lets your Xt \napplication know when it has been re-exposed, resized, and when it has received\nuser key and mouse input. \n\tThe best thing to do for other widget sets -- including the Athena set \n-- is to create or obtain such a widget; this is preferable to drawing into a \ncore widget and grabbing events with XtAddEventHandler(), which loses a number \nof benefits of Xt and encapsulation of the functionality . \n\tAt least one version has been posted to comp.sources.x (name???). \n\tThe publicly-available programs xball and xpic include other versions. \n\tThe Athena Widget manual (mit/doc/Xaw/Template in the R5 distribution) \nincludes a tutorial and source code to a simple widget which is suitable for \nuse. \n\tThe Free Widget Foundation set contains a Canvas widget.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 68) What is the current state of the world in X terminals?\n\nJim Morton (jim@applix.com) posts quarterly to comp.windows.x a list of \nmanufacturers and terminals; it includes pricing information. \n\nNotable buyers-guide surveys include:\n\t- the September 1991 issue of Systems Integration\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 69) Where can I get an X server with a touchscreen or lightpen?\n\n\tLabtam (+61 3 587 1444, fax +61 3 580 5581) offers a 19\" Surface \nAcoustic Wave touch-screen option on its Xengine terminals.\n\tTektronix (1-800-225-5434) provides an X terminal with the Xtouch \ntouch-screen. This terminal may also be resold through Trident Systems\n(703-273-1012).\n\tMetro Link (305-970-7353) supports the EloGraphics Serial Touch Screen \nControllers.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 70) Where can I get an X server on a PC (DOS or Unix)?\n\n\tMIT X11R5 already provides a server to many 386/486 *Unixes* with \nsupport for many of the popular video graphics adapters; and for other \nnon-MSDOS PCs you can obtain a server from these sources:\n\n\tXFree86 (formerly X386 1.2E) is an enhanced version of X386 1.2, which \nwas distributed with X11R5; it includes many bug fixes, speed improvements, and\nother enhancements. Source for version 1.2 [2/93] is on export.lcs.mit.edu in \npub/contrib, ftp.physics.su.oz.au in /X386, and ftp.win.tue.nl in /pub/X386. In\naddition, binaries are on ftp.physics.su.oz.au, and ftp.win.tue.nl among other \nsystems. Info: x386@physics.su.oz.au.\n\tNote: this package obsoletes Glenn Lai's Speedup patches for an \nenhanced X11R5 server for 386 UNIXes with ET4000 boards (SpeedUp.tar.Z on \nexport).\n\n\n\tMetro Link Inc. (305-970-7353, sales@metrolink.com; in Europe contact\nADNT, (33 1) 3956 5333) ships an implementation of X11R4 for the 386/486 Unix\nmarket.\n\n\tSGCS offers X386 Version 1.3, based on Thomas Roell's X11R5 two-headed\nserver, in binary and source form. Information: 408-255-9665, info@sgcs.com.\n\n\tISC, SCO, UHC, and other well-known operating-system vendors typically\noffer X servers.\n\n\tFor MSDOS PCs:\n\nDaniel J. McCoy (mccoy@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov) has started posting monthly a \nlist of non-UNIX servers for PCs, Macs, and Amigas; it includes pricing \ninformation. The current copy is kept on export in contrib as \nXServers-NonUNIX.txt.Z. \n\nAn article on PC X servers appears in the March 2, 1992 Open Systems Today.\n\n\tAlso of possible use:\n\n\tNet-I from Programit (212-809-1707) enables communication among \nDOS, OS/2 and Unix machines and can be used to display PC sessions on your\nUnix X display.\n\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 71) Where can I get an X server on a Macintosh running MacOS?\n\n\teXodus from White Pine Software (603-886-9050) runs on any Mac with\nat least 1MB of memory and runs the X server within a standard Macintosh \nwindow. Version 3.0 [6/91] supports intermixing of X and Mac windows and\nthe ADSP protocol. The version supports the SHAPE extension and includes\nDECwindows support.\n\n\tApple's MacX runs on MacPlus or newer machines with >= 2MB of memory\nand system software 6.0.4 or later. Version 1.1 is fully X11R4-based. It \nsupports full ICCCM-compatible cut and paste of text AND graphics between the \nMacintosh and X11 worlds, the SHAPE extension (including SHAPEd windows on the \nMacintosh desktop), an optional built-in ICCCM-compliant window manager, X11R4 \nfonts and colors, a built-in BDF font compiler, and built-in standard \ncolormaps. Upgrades to MacX are available by ftp from aux.support.apple.com. \nInfo: 408-996-1010. \n\t[Note: MacX is also the name of a vax-mac xmodem transfer utility.]\n\n\tAlso: \n\n\tLiken (1-800-245-UNIX or info@qualix.com) software enables monochrome\n68000 Mac applications to run on a SPARC system running X. \n\tXport (1-800-245-UNIX (415-572-0200) or xport@qualix.com) enables Mac \napplications to display on an X-based workstation by turning the Mac into an X \nclient.\n\tIntercon has a product called Planet-X which enables Mac applications\nto display on an X server.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 72) Where can I get X for the Amiga?\n\n\tThe new Amiga 3000 machines offer an X server and OPEN LOOK tools and\nlibraries on a full SVR4 implementation.\n\n GfxBase, Inc. provides \"X11 R4.1\" for the AmigaDos computer; it \ncontains X11R4 clients, fonts, etc., and a Release 4 color server. An optional \nprogrammer's toolkit includes the header files, libraries, and sample programs.\nInfo from GfxBase, 408-262-1469. [Dale Luck \n(uunet!{cbmvax|pyramid}!boing!dale); 2/91]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 73) Where can I get a fast X server for a workstation?\n\n\tThe R5 server should be among the fastest available for most machines.\n\n\tSun sells a \"Direct Xlib\" product which improves rendering for \napplications running on the same machine as the X server; the replacement Xlib\nlibrary accesses graphics hardware directly using Sun's Direct Graphics Access \n(DGA) technology.\n\n\tInternational Quest Corporation (408-988-8289) has an optimized R4 \nserver for Sun3/4 under SunOS 4.0.\n\n\tUnipalm have R4 Servers for Sun3 and Sparc platforms. These are \noptimised to use graphics hardware and will run with Sunview. Information:\n+44 954 211797 or xtech@unipalm.co.uk.\n\n\tXgraph's Xtool (408-492-9031) is an X server implemented in SunView \nwhich boasts impressive results on Sun 3 and SPARC systems. [6/90]\n\nSeveral companies are making hardware accellerator boards:\n\n\tDupont Pixel Systems (302-992-6911), for Sun.\n\n\tMegatek's (619-455-5590) X-cellerator board for the Sun 3 and Sun 4 is \nbased on the TI 34020; the company claims performance improvements of 5x to \n10x over the sample X11R3 server.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 74)! Where can I get a server for my high-end Sun graphics board?\n\n Takahashi Naoto (Electrotechnical Laboratory, ntakahas@etl.go.jp) has \nmodified the MIT X11R5 server to support the Sun CG8, CG9, and CG12 boards. \nThe files are on export in contrib/Xsun24-3.[01].tar.Z. Note that both files \nare necessary to build Xsun24-3.1.\n\n\tThe JPL R5 Xsun Multi-screen server is a general purpose replacement\nfor the MIT server/ddx/sun layer; it provides for the screen to be split among\nseveral monitors and implements several other features above the MIT \nimplementation. Available on export.lcs.mit.edu in the file\ncontrib/R5.Xsun.multi-screen.tar.Z. [Kaleb Keithley, kaleb@thyme.jpl.nasa.gov,\n12/91; the file was updated 24 Mar 1993.]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 75) Where can I get an \"X terminal\" server for my low-end Sun 3/50?\n\n\tSeth Robertson (seth@ctr.columbia.edu) has written Xkernel; the current\nversion [1.4 as of 8/91, 2.0 expected RSN] is on sol.ctr.columbia.edu \n[128.59.64.40] in /pub/Xkernel.gamma. It turns a Sun 3/50 into a pseudo- X \nterminal; most of the overhead of the operating system is side-stepped, so it \nis fairly fast and needs little disk space.\n\tA similar approach is to run the regular X server by making /etc/init\na shell script which does the minimal setup and then invokes Xsun, like this\nexample script from mouse@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.EDU:\n\n#! /bin/sh\nexec >/dev/console 2>&1\n/etc/fsck -p /dev/nd0\ncase $? in\n \t0)\t;;\n \t4)\t/etc/reboot -q -n\n \t\t;;\n \t8)\techo ND fsck failed - get help\n \t\t/etc/halt\n \t\t;;\n \t12)\techo Interrupted\n \t\t/etc/reboot\n \t\t;;\n \t*)\techo Unknown error in reboot fsck - get help\n \t\t/etc/halt\n \t\t;;\nesac\n/bin/dd if=/tmp-fs of=/dev/nd2 bs=512 count=128 >/dev/null 2>&1\n/etc/mount /dev/nd2 /tmp\n/etc/ifconfig le0 netmask 255.255.255.0 broadcast 132.206.41.255\n/etc/mount -o ro apollo:/u2/x11/lib /local/lib/X11\n/etc/route add default 132.206.41.1 1 >/dev/null\nset `/etc/ifconfig le0`\nexec /Xsun -once -multidisp -mux -query \\\n\t`(sh -vn &1)`\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 76) What terminal emulators other than xterm are available?\n\n\tPCS has rewritten xterm from scratch using a multi-widget approach that\ncan be used by applications. A version is on the R5 contrib tape and on\nexport in contrib/emu.tar.Z [10/91]. For more information, contact \nme@dude.pcs.com.\n\n\tmxterm, a Motif-based xterm is available from the Paderborner \nftp-Server ftp@uni-paderborn.de (131.234.2.32), file \n/unix/X11/more_contrib/mxterm.tar.Z.\n\n\tThe Color Terminal Widget provides ANSI-terminal emulation compatible\nwith the VTx00 series; a version is on export in contrib/CTW-1.1.tar.Z. A\nMotif version is on ftp.stna7.stna.dgac.fr in pub/Term-1.0.tar.Z.\n\t\n\tkterm 4.1.2 is an X11R4-based vt100/vt102 (and Tektronix 4014) terminal\nemulator that supports display of Chinese, Japanese, and Korean text (in VT \nmode). Also supported are: ANSI color sequences, multi-byte word selection, \nlimited Compound Text support, and tab and newline preservation in selections.\nkterm 4.1.2 is also available from these anonymous ftp sites:\n\tclr.nmsu.edu:pub/misc/kterm-4.1.2.tar.Z [128.123.1.14]\n\texport.lcs.mit.edu:contrib/kterm-4.1.2.tar.Z [18.24.0.12]\n\tkum.kaist.ac.kr:pub/unix/Xstuffs/kterm-4.1.2.tar.Z [137.68.1.65]\n[courtesy of Mark Leisher ]\n\n\tkterm-5.1.1.tar.Z is now on export [12/92].\n\n\tmterm, by mouse@larry.McRCIM.McGill.EDU, is an X terminal emulator\nwhich includes ANSI X3.64 and DEC emulation modes. mterm can be had by ftp to \nlarry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (132.206.1.1), in X/mterm.src/mterm.ball-o-wax.\n\n\tCxterm is a Chinese xterm, which supports both GB2312-1980 and the \nso-called Big-5 encoding. Hanzi input conversion mechanism is builtin in \ncxterm. Most input methods are stored in external files that are loaded at run\ntime. Users can redefine any existing input methods or create their own ones.\nThe X11R5 cxterm is the rewritten of cxterm (version 11.5.1) based on X11R5 \nxterm; it is in the R5 contrib software. [thanks to Zhou Ning \n and Steinar Bang .]\n\n\tXVT is available on export's contrib in xvt-1.0.tar.Z and \nxvt-1.0.README. It is designed to offer xterm's functionality with lower swap \nspace and may be of particular use on systems driving many X terminals.\n\n\tx3270 is in X11R5 contrib/.\n\nAlso:\n\tIBM sells a 3270 emulator for the RS/6000 (part #5765-011); it's based\non Motif. \n\t\n\tCentury Software (801-268-3088) sells a VT220 terminal emulator for X. \nVT102, Wyse 50 and SCO Color Console emulation are also available. \n\n\tGrafpoint's TGRAF-X provides emulation of Tektronix 4107, 4125, and \n42xx graphics terminals; it's available for most major platforms. Information\n(inc. free demo copies): 800-426-2230; Fax. 408-446-0666; uunet!grafpnt!sales.\n\n\tIXI's X.deskterm, a package for integrating character-based \napplications into an X environment, includes a number of terminal-emulation\nmodules. Information: +44 (0223) 462131. [5/90]\n\n\tPericom produces Teem-X, a set of several emulation packages for a\nnumber of Tek, DEC, Westward, and Data General terminals. The software runs on\nSun 3, Sun 4, Apollo, DEC, ISC, IBM/AIX. Information: US: 609-895-0404, \nUK: +44 (0908) 560022. [5/90]\n\n\tSCO's SCOterm (info@sco.COM), part of its Open Desktop environment, is\na Motif-compliant SCO ANSI color console emulator.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 77)! Where can I get an X-based editor or word-processor?\n\n\tYou can ftp a version of GNU Emacs, the extensible, customizable, \nself-documenting, real-time display editor, including X11 support, from\nprep.ai.mit.edu [18.71.0.38]:/pub/gnu/emacs-18.59.tar.Z or\ninformatik.tu-muenchen.de:/pub/GNU/emacs/emacs-18.59.tar.Z.\n\t\n\tEpoch is a modified version of Gnu Emacs (18) with additional \nfacilities useful in an X environment. Current sources are on cs.uiuc.edu \n(128.174.252.1) in ~ftp/pub/epoch-files/epoch; the current [3/92] version is \n4.0. [In Europe, try unido.informatik.uni-dortmund.de]. There are two \nsubdirectories: epoch contains the epoch source, and gwm contains the source \nto the programmable window manager GWM, with which epoch works well.] \nYou can get on the Epoch mailing list by sending a request to \nepoch-request@cs.uiuc.edu.\n\n\tLucid Emacs is a version of GNU Emacs derived from an early version of\nEmacs version 19. It currently requires X Windows to run; X support is\ngreatly enhanced over GNU Emacs version 18, including support for multiple X\nwindows, input and display of all ISO-8859-1 (Latin1) characters, Zmacs/Lispm\nstyle region highlighting, a customizable Motif-like menubar, more powerful\nkeymap support, flexible text attributes, support on regional and screen-local\nbasis through X resources and/or lisp, and support for the X11 selection\nmechanism. Lucid Emacs is free; the latest version (2/93) is 19.4, and is\navailable from labrea.stanford.edu in the pub/gnu/lucid/ directory.\n\n\tThe Andrew system on the X11 contrib tapes has been described as one of\nthe best word-processing packages available. It supports word processing with \nmulti-media embedded objects: rasters, tables/spread sheets, drawings, style \neditor, application builder, embedded programming language, &c. Release 5.1 \nbecame available 2 June 92. [Fred Hansen (wjh+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU)]\n\tYou may be able to use the Remote Andrew Demo service to try this \nsoftware; try \"finger help@atk.itc.cmu.edu\" for help.\n\n\tThe InterViews C++ toolkit contains a WYSIWIG editor called Doc; it \nsaves and loads files in a LaTeX-*like* format (not quite LaTeX). The package \ncan also import idraw-PostScript drawings.\n\n\tA simple editor aXe (by J.K.Wight@newcastle.ac.uk) is available on \nexport and arjuna.newcastle.ac.uk (128.240.150.1) as aXe-4.1.tar.Z [3/93]. It \nis based around the Xaw Text widget.\n\n\tTED is a simple Motif-based text editor; it is a wrapper around the \nMotif text widget which offers search/replace, paragraph formatting, and \nnavigation features. TED is available from ftp.eos.ncsu.edu (152.1.9.25) as \n/pub/bill.tar.Z; here are also executables there.\n\n\tPoint, by crowley@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Charlie Crowley), is Tcl/Tk-based\nand offers dyanimic configuration and programming in the Tcl macro language.\nThe editor is available from unmvax.cs.unm.edu (129.24.16.1) as\npub/Point/point1.1-tar.Z.\n\n\tasedit, by Andrzej Stochniol (astoch@ic.ac.uk) is on export in \ncontrib/asedit.tar.Z. It is a simple text editor built around the Motif Text \nwidget. Version 1.11 was released 1/93.\n\nAlso:\n\n\tElan Computer Group (Mountain View, CA; 415-964-2200) has announced the\nAvalon Publisher 2.0, an X11/OPEN LOOK WYSIWYG electronic publishing system.\n\n\tFrameMaker and FrameWriter are available as X-based binary products for\nseveral machines. Frame is at 800-843-7263 (CA: 408-433-3311).\n\n\tWX2 (formerly InDepthEdit) is available from Non Standard Logics \n(+33 (1) 43 36 77 50; requests@nsl.fr).\n\n\tBuzzwords International Inc. has an editor called 'Professional Edit' \nthat runs under X/Motif for various platforms. Info: +1-314-334-6317.\n\n\tDECwrite is available from DEC for some DEC hardware and SunWrite is\navailable from Sun.\n\n\tIslandWrite will soon be available from Island Graphics (415-491-1000) \n(info@island.com) for some HP & Apollo platforms.\n\n\tInterleaf is currently available from Interleaf (800-241-7700, \nMA: 617-577-9800) on all Sun and DEC platforms; others are under development.\n\n\tThe Aster*x office integration tools from Applix (1-800-8APPLIX, \nMA: 508-870-0300) include a multi-font WYSIWG document composer; for several \nsystems.\n\n\tArborText, Inc. provides an X11 version of its Electronic Publishing \nprogram called \"The Publisher\". The Publisher is available on Sun, HP and \nApollo workstations. Contact Arbortext at 313-996-3566. [5/90]\n\n\tIris Computing Laboratories offers the \"ie\" editor. Info: \n+1-505-988-2670 or info@spectro.com.\n\n\tBBN/Slate from BBN Software Products includes a menu-driven word\nprocessor with multiple fonts and style sheets. It supports X on\nmultiple platforms. (617-873-5000 or slate-offer@bbn.com) [11/90]\n\n\tThe powerful \"sam\" editor by Rob Pike is split into a host portion and \na front-end graphics portion, which now has an X implementation. sam is now \navailable by anonymous ftp from research.att.com, in dist/sam/bundle.Z. Watch \nthat space for updated versions. There is a mailing list for sam users; \nrequests to . A set of extensions\nwhich augment the mouse activity with the keyboard is available from \nuxc.cso.uiuc.edu in pub/sam/samx1.0.shar.\n\n\tInnovative Solutions (505-883-4252; or Brian Zimbelman, \nis!brian@bbx.basis.com) publishes the user-configurable Motif-based Xamine \neditor.\n\n\tQualix offers a product. Information: info@qualix.com or 800-245-UNIX \n(415-572-0200).\n\n\tTypex is a Motif-based editor available for several systems. \nInformation: Amcad Research, 408-867-5705, fax -6209.\n\n\tWordPerfect offers an X-based version of WordPerfect 5.1 for several\nworkstations. Information: 801-222-5300 or 800-451-5151.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 78) Where can I get an X-based mailer?\n\n\txmh, an X interface to mh, is distributed with the X11 release.\n\n\tXmail is an X-based window interface to Berkeley-style mail handlers;\nit is styled primarily after the Sunview mailtool application and builds on\nmost Unix systems. The current release [1/92] is 1.4, available in the MIT \nX11R5 contrib tape and from export and uunet. Info: Jeff Markham,\nmarkham@cadence.com.\n\n\tMMH (My Mail Handler), a motif interface to the MH mail handler, is \navailable from ftp.eos.ncsu.edu (152.1.9.25) in pub/bill.tar.Z; it is bundled\nwith the TED editor, which it uses for composing messages. Motif 1.1 is \nrequired; if you don't have it, look for DEC and SPARC executables in the same \nplace. Information and problems to: Erik Scott, escott@eos.ncsu.edu. [1/92]\n\n\tThe Andrew Toolkit supports the Andrew Message System; it is available\nfrom export and many other X archives and from emsworth.andrew.cmu.edu \n(128.2.30.62), or send email to susan+@andrew.cmu.edu. Release 5.1 became\navailable 2 June 92.\n\tYou may be able to use the Remote Andrew Demo service to try this \nsoftware; try \"finger help@atk.itc.cmu.edu\" for help.\n\n\tXMailTool is an Xaw-based interface to a BSD-style mail reader; version\n2.0 was released 9/92. Information: Bob Kierski, bobo@cray.com or 612-683-5874.\n\n\tCem is a Motif-based mailer using standard mailbox formats; it is on\nnelson.tx.ncsu.edu in pub/Cem. Information: Sam Moore (Sam_Moore@ncsu.edu).\n\nAlso:\n\n Alfalfa Software offers Poste, a UNIX-based mailer that has Motif- and \ncommand-based interfaces. It includes support for multimedia enclosures, and \nsupports both the Internet and X.400 mail standards. Information: \ninfo@alfalfa.com, +1 617-497-2922.\n\n\tZ-Code Software offers Z-Mail for most Unix systems; binaries support\nboth tty and Motif interfaces. The mailer includes a csh-like scripting \nlanguage for customizing and extending mail capabilities. Information: \ninfo@z-code.com, +1 415 499-8649.\n\n\tSeveral vendors' systems include X-based mailers. DEC offers dxmail; \nSun offers an X-based mailtool; SCO (info@sco.com) includes SCOmail in its Open\nDesktop product.\n\nSeveral integrated office-productivity tools include mailers:\n\n\tThe Aster*x office integration tools from Applix (1-800-8APPLIX, \nMA: 508-870-0300) include a mailer.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 79)! Where can I get an X-based paint/draw program?\n\n\txpic is an object-oriented drawing program. It supports multiple font \nstyles and sizes and variable line widths; there are no rotations or zooms.\nxpic is quite suitable as an interactive front-end to pic, though the \nxpic-format produced can be converted into PostScript. (The latest version is \non the R4 contrib tape in clients/xpic.)\n\n\txfig (by Brian V. Smith (bvsmith@lbl.gov)) is an object-oriented \ndrawing program supporting compound objects. The xfig format can be converted \nto PostScript or other formats. Recent versions are on the R5 contrib tape or \non export in /contrib/R5fixes (version 2.1.6 [11/92]).\n\n idraw supports numerous fonts and various line styles and arbitrary \nrotations. It supports zoom and scroll and color draws and fills. The file \nformat is a PostScript dialect. It can import TIFF files. Distributed as a part\nof the InterViews C++ toolkit (current release 3.1, from \ninterviews.stanford.edu) .\n\n\tA version of Robert Forsman's (thoth@lightning.cis.ufl.edu) xscribble,\nan 8-bit paint program for X, is now on ftp.cis.ufl.edu in pub/thoth/. [2/93]\n\n\txpaint is available from ftp.ee.lbl.gov as xpaint.tar.Z.\n\tA rewrite, Xpaint 2.0, by David Koblas (koblas@netcom.com) was released\n2/93 as xpaint2pl3.tar.Z. xpaint is a bitmap/pixmap editing tool.\n\n\tA new OpenWindows PostScript-based graphical editor named 'ice' is now \n[2/91] available for anonymous ftp from Internet host lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu \n(129.236.10.30). ice (Image Composition Environment) is an imaging tool that\nallows raster images to be combined with a wide variety of PostScript \nannotations in WYSIWYG fashion via X11 imaging routines and NeWS PostScript \nrasterizing. (It may require OpenWindows and Sun C++ 2.0.)\n\n\ttgif by William Cheng (william@oahu.cs.ucla.edu) is available from most\nuucp sites and also from export and from cs.ucla.edu. It is frequently updated;\nversion 2.12-patch18 was released 3/93.\n\n\tThe \"pixmap\" program (info: colas@sa.inria.fr) for creating pixmaps is \non the R5 contrib tape; it resembles the bitmap client. Version 2.1 is now \navailable. [11/92]\n\n\tAlthough MetaCard is not generally classified as a paint program, a \nfull 24-bit color image editor is built into the program, which can be used for\nlight image editing and for producing color icons (info@metacard.com). MetaCard\nis available via anonymous FTP from ftp.metacard.com, csn.org, or \n128.138.213.21.\n\t\n\tpixt by J. Michael Flanery produces XPM output.\n\nAlso:\n\n\tdxpaint is a bitmap-oriented drawing program most like MacPaint; it's \ngood for use by artists but commonly held to be bad for drawing figures or \ndrafting. dxpaint is part of DEC's Ultrix release.\n\n\tFrameMaker has some draw capabilities. [4/90]\n\n\tBBN/Slate from BBN Software Products includes a full-featured draw and\npaint program with object grouping and multiple patterns; multiple X platforms.\n(617-873-5000 or slate-offer@bbn.com). [11/90]\n\n\tDux Ta-Dah!, 1-800-543-4999\n\n\tIslandGraphics offers IslandDraw, IslandPaint, IslandPresent.\nInfo: 415-491-1000.\n\n\tCorel Draw, 613-728-8200; ported to X by Prior Data Sciences \n800-267-2626\n\n\tArts&Letters Composer, 214-661-8960\n\n\tFicor AutoGraph, 513-771-4466\n\n\tOpenWindows includes the olpixmap editor.\n\tSCO ODT includes the SCOpaint editor.\n\tHP VUE includes the vueicon editor.\n\nSeveral integrated office-productivity tools include draw/paint capabilities:\n\n\tThe Aster*x office integration tools from Applix (1-800-8APPLIX, \nMA: 508-870-0300) include draw/paint capabilities.\n\n[thanks in part to Stephen J. Byers (af997@cobcs1.cummins.com) and to \nJ. Daniel Smith (dsmith@ann-arbor.applicon.slb.com)]\n\t\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nDavid B. Lewis \t\t\t\t\tfaq%craft@uunet.uu.net\n\n\t\t\"Just the FAQs, ma'am.\" -- Joe Friday ", "Does anyone know if a source for the TCM3105 modem chips (as used in the\nBaycom and my PMP modems)? Ideally, something that is geared toward \nhobbyists: small quantity, mail order, etc.\n\nFor years, we've been buying them from a distributor (Marshall) by the\nhundreds for PMP kits. But orders have dropped to the point where we can\nno longer afford to offer this service. And all of the distributors I've\nchecked have some crazy minimum order ($100, or so).\n\nI'd like to find a source for those still interested in building PMP kits.\nAny suggestions?\n", "In the past, I have used named pipes to communicate between processes using\nthe XtAddInput function to set up the event handling in Motif. Does anybody\nknow of a way to do this with message passing ( IPC ) ? I tried it here and\nno luck so far.", "CAD Setup For Sale:\n\nG486PLB Local Bus Motherboard\n Can use up to 32MB of SIMMS (256k/1M/4M)\n 9 expansion slots (8 16-bit slots, 1 32-bit slot)\n Weitek 4167 co-processor socket\n\n33 Mhz Intel CPU\n\n33 Mhz Weitek 4167 Math Co-processor\n\nG-Host4000 Local Bus ET4000 Video Card\n Based on Tseng Labs' ET4000 chip design\n Supports resolutions up to 1280x1024 interlaced or non-interlaced\n Uses RAMDAC to allow up to 32k colors in 800x600, 65k colors in 640x480\n Register level compatible with CGA, EGA, VGA, MDA\n Software drivers available for 1-2-3, Symphony, Autocad, Autoshade,\n Windows, Wordperfect, VESA and 8514/A Emulation\n also contained on the card:\n Local Bus IDE controller\n Floppy Disk controller\n Two fully configuarable serial ports\n 1 Parallel port\n 1 Game port\n\n I used this setup to run AutoCad and 3D Studio. The combination of\n Local Bus and the Weitek co-processor made for VERY fast CAD and modeling\n work. The Weitek coprocessor can cut 3D Studio render times in half and\n sometimes more. It also increases redraws and regens when modeling in\n both 3D Studio and Autocad. Everything is less than a year old. I am\n asking $950.00 + shipping for the whole package. Please respond via email.\n Thanks.", "wing the suggestion of Stu Lynne, I have posted the Image File Format executable and source code to alt.sources.", ": \n: No, buy the serial port and modem. Each can be used for other things,\n: you can use the modem with your next computer (might not be a PC) or\n: upgrade the modem without changing the box. I hear that ISDN is big in\n: Europe, you might be able to get one of those beautiful ISDN modems for\n: less than the pice of a car someday (64k bidirectional).\n: \n: -- \n: bill davidsen, GE Corp. R&D Center; Box 8; Schenectady NY 12345\n: \n\n\nUnfortunately the curent United States standard on ISDN is 54Kbit..\n :(\n\nbut i suppose whats 10Kbit.. \n\nC.Kup.", "I have a 3 month old that seems to have acquired the jitters of late. \nThe 14\" Apple color monitor that I'm using with an LCIII sort of jiggles to\nthe left and right all the time now. I have attempted to relocate the monitor\nto make sure the problem isn't interference from something else, but the \nproblem seems to remain no matter what I do.\n\nHas anybody encountered this problem?\n\nThanks,", "\n\n\n\n\n\nOn a similar note, has anyone found out a way to do this with MS FoxPro for\nWindows? My setup.ini file was modified on disk 1 (all encrypted).. Well,\nof course I forgot about Microsoft's stupid arrangement when I got the \nsoftware, and used my name (it was paid for by the company I'm doing \nconsulting for. When my job is done, it's their software).. Any ideas before\nI start doing dumb things to a copy of that file??\n\nMattias\nps NO - I don't want to pirate this software. I just want to avoid having\nto buy a new copy in order to change the registration information and then\nhaving a copy lying around I don't use...\n\nmaybe I can get a new disk 1...", "Since Image Writer LQ was discontinued, there is no Apple Talk\n printer with 11\"*15\" continous paper printer.", "\nNo rumour, IBM's clock tripling chip was seen in some trade show last\nfall (COMDEX or something, I wasn't there). All you people who are\ndrooling after this chip do realize that it has no FPU, just like\n486SX, that Evil Marketing Ploy(tm) from Intel, don't you? It has 16K\nof internal cache, which probably is where the saved silicon real\nestate went. Because of some contract, IBM is not allowed to sell its\n486 chips to third parties, so these chips are unlikely to become\navailable in any non-IBM machines. Of course, nothing prevents other\ncompanies from implementing a DX3/99, but nobody hasn't even come out\nwith a real 486DX (FPU and all) clone yet (although AMD soon will).", "For Sale:\n\nOS/2 2.0 Extended Services -\n\n * Extended Database support\n * Extended Networking Support\n * Remote Host support\n * Extended Communication Support\n\nPLUS! A copy of OS/2 2.0. The ES package is brand new and uninstalled, all\nmanuals, disks, etc. are included. The ES package retails for $495 with OS/2\n2.0 selling for $79 or something like that.\n\nI'll let both of them go for $200. My needs changed thus eliminating my\nneed for the package once I bought it.\n\nIf Interested, please Email me at:", "\nApple uses the IEEE Nubus-90 standard for their 32 bit backplane bus.\n(I got this from a technote that I reada couple of weeks ago)\n\n\nHope this helps,\nBret Chase\n\n", "I am looking for a 286 motherboard, preferable 12 or 16, 640k or 1 meg RAM. \nI am also looking for a VGA card.\n\nAm willing to trade 1200 external, 5.25\" LD Drive, 8088 motherboard,\nmonochrome monitor, Game Boy, in some combination for the above.\n\nLibertarian, atheist, semi-anarchal Techno-Rat.", "\n\nMay I respectfully suggest you NOT do this?? The ground is\nsupposed to be a protective ground, and though what you suggest\nlooks good on paper, it's dangerous to rely on the same wire for\npower and protection. It'd never meet code, and if you now own\nthe property and later sell it, you may end up with liabilities\nyou don't want, and if you _don't_ now own it, well...", "\nIn the list you mentioned, tgif handles everything except rotation and\nany size text. It only supports 90 degrees rotation. Currently, it\nsupports 11 (X11R4 standard) font sizes. However, it allows arbitrary\nscaling of the entire drawing. Effectively, it allows any font sizes, but\nyou can only have 11 different sizes per drawing.\n\nTgif takes up 850K (compiled with -O option) on a SPARCstation. I was told\nthat it compiles under Linux, but I haven't tried it yet. It works with\nboth color and monochrome X.", "You macinators who have used these voice messaging/FAX/data-modems. I\nhave a question. First what brand names do you recommend(I am mostly\ninterested in the voice messaging and FAX part). Is the voice part as\nreliable and understandable as the sellers claim? Approximately, how\nmuch hard drive space does an average day of callers take up, if they\nspeak for one minute? \nAny feed back would be appreciated. My company is looking at buying\none or two. Hey, I may buy one myself too.\n\nThanks in advance\nDon ", "To all netters,\n\n In my last post that concerning about the CYRIX 486DLC CPU, I said the\nbenchmark program COMPTEST stated there is a bug in CYRIX CPUs. This is NOT\ntrue and I must apologize to the author of COMPTEST. The actual program\nthat gives this report is F-PROT 2.07, a virus detection and removal\nprogram. The report stated there is a bug in the Cx486SLC but not DLC.\nSorry, sorry, sorry...", "A good reason (which is why many companies use it) for 48 bits / pixel\nis so you can use double buffering (for animating scenes) - i.e. you have\n2 * 24-bit planes. You write to the one in the background, and then FLIP! \n-- the entire screen updates to the second image-plane. The screen updates \nin one refresh and you don't see different objects appearing in the order \nthat they're drawn (as in the CAD/MacDraw effect). Now your ready to update \nthe image that used to be in the foreground.\n\nSteve. (thssstb@iitmax.iit.edu / iris.iit.edu)", "what about\n\nqrttoppm < file.dis | ppmtotga > file.tga\n\n??\n", "The XDM on Solaris 2.1 *WAS* broke. Since two weeks, Sun distributes\na patched release, which works fine (supports /etc/shadow and all).\nWe have it up and running ever since and have not experienced any\nproblems. Call your local Sun rep.\n\nDick.", "I am saving an image on one machine and redisplaying the image on\nanother machine (both are HP 9000 Model 750s). The image is created\nusing XCreateImage and XGetImage and displayed with XPutImage. The\nimage is redisplayed correctly except that the colors are wrong because\nthe server on the other machine is using a different colormap.\n\nI tried saving the colormap (pixel and rgb values) and on the redisplay,\nperformed a table lookup against the new colormap. This didn't work\nbecause some rgb combos don't exist in the new colormap.\n\nIs there a way to force the server to load colors into set pixel values, or\nis there a simpler way to solve this problem? I tried using xinitcolormap\nbut couldn't get that to work either.\n\nAny help would be appreciated.\n", "\nAs far as I know ISDN (call it Swissnet here, and it's being plugged in) it's\n8 bit 8000Hz (gives you one channel of 64kBit/sec) I guess you should not go\nbelow a sampling rate of 6000 Hz if you want to have same quality as on an\nanalog-line. Anybody knows compression-algorithms & -factors for voice ?\n\nGreetings,\n\n\tGermano Caronni", "\n\tExcept for the fact that it's superior in just about every way to\nthe ISA Bus.\n\n\n\tExcept for the new systems that now ship only with IDE controllers.", "\n\nThe patches for xv.h need to use ``#ifdef SVR4'' rather than the\noverly complex ``#if defined(sun) && defined(SYSV)'' in order to\ngenerically compile XV on i386SVR4Architecture. Also, rand and srand\ndon't work very well--use lrand48 and seed48 to get better results.\nOtherwise, xv-3.00 compiles just fine on my Esix System V 4.0.4 box\nwith XFree86 and gcc-2.3.3. I just uncommented the gcc definition in\nthe Makefile, added -L/usr/X386/lib -I/usr/X386/include to the COPTS\nline and modified LIBS to include -lsocket -lnsl. Really John, if you\njust use the Imakefile things like this don't even have to get\nmentioned...\n\n*** 1.1\t1993/04/28 08:33:13\n--- xv.h\t1993/04/28 17:47:38\n***************\n*** 284,292 ****\n--- 284,298 ----\n \n \n /* signal macros */\n+ #ifdef SVR4\n+ #define HOLD_SIG sighold(SIGALRM)\n+ #define RELEASE_SIG sigrelse(SIGALRM)\n+ #define PAUSE_SIG sigpause(SIGALRM)\n+ #else\n #define HOLD_SIG sigblock(sigmask(SIGALRM))\n #define RELEASE_SIG sigblock(0)\n #define PAUSE_SIG sigpause(0)\n+ #endif\n ", "\nI think I found what your looking for on ftp.apple.com in the\n/dts/mac/sys.soft/video directory and is called \"Virtual Monitor Switch\n1.0\". Hope this helps.", ": I'd appreciate any feedback on capture/playback tools for use with X clients.\n\n: Any comparisons/comments on regression testing tools would be great -\n: particularly XTM, XRunner, Autotester, and SRI's CAPBAK, SMARTS and EXDIFF.\n\nHow about starting where I could find ANY of these. For the commercial\nones, at least a phone number would be appreciated.\n", "Thanks for all the responses. I've made contact with the UK distributor :-)\n", "I'm not sure if you got the information you were looking for, so I'll\npost it anyway for the general public. To load an image on your root\nwindow add this line to the end of your .xsession file:\n\n xloadimage -onroot -fullscreen &\n\nThis is assuming of course you have the xloadimage client, and as\nfor the switches, I think they pretty much explain what is going on.\nIf you leave out the <&>, the terminal locks till you kill it.\n(You already knew that though...)\n\nHope this helps.", "Here is a different viewpoint.\n\n\nIn practice there is little difference in quality but more care is needed \nwith inkjet because smudges etc. can happen.\n\n\nA cheap laser printer does not manage that sort of throughput and on top of \nthat how long does the _first_ sheet take to print? Inkjets are faster than \nyou say and in both cases the computer often has trouble keeping up with the \nprinter. (I have a 486/33 and a lot of drivers cannot keep up with the \nprinter)\n\nA sage said to me: \"Do you want one copy or lots of copies?\", \"One\", \n\"Inkjet\".\n \n\nPaper cost is the same and both can use refills. Long term the laserprinter \nwill need some expensive replacement parts (consumables) and on top of that \nare the amortisation costs which favour the lowest purchase cost printer.\n\nHP inkjets understand PCL so in many cases a laserjet driver will work if the \nsoftware package has no inkjet driver. \n\nThere is one wild difference between the two printers: a laserprinter is a \npage printer whilst an inkjet is a line printer. This means that a \nlaserprinter can rotate graphic images whilst an inkjet cannot. Few drivers \nactually use this facility.\n(there is also the matter of downloadable fonts and so on)", "\nWhats the difference between a V.32bis modem and a V.32bis modem?\n\nI'm not being entirely silly here: what I'm pointing out is that the\nmodems that they have already approved for data transmission will work\njust fine to transmit scrambled vocoded voice.\n\n--\nPerry Metzger\t\tpmetzger@shearson.com", "\n\n\nSounds like you are getting a pretty fair price (assuming it is in\nnice condition)\n\n", "\n\nWhere do I get hold of these widgets?", "\n\nYes, and one thing to think about is the pricing on the 160M harddrive \nconfiguration. When I got my lowly classic II, the options were 40 or 80M\nharddrives, and it was clear that buying another 40M of harddrive space \nwould cost *much* more than the difference in price between the two config-\nuartions. There is an analogous break in the LCIII/80 and 160 prices, and \nyou will not regret spending the extra money for a larger harddrive. \n\nParticularly if you ever wind up wanting to use SoftPC, which sets up a\nseveral-MB (up to 30!) partition, or if you are generating large files \nwith DTP software, or if you might ever want to check out a mac unix-like \nos, like MachTen, having the extra space will be helpful. when you are \npricing used IIci's, look at the harddrive size they come with, and how much\nit would cost you to add more storage down the road... (Might be a \nuseful bargaining strategy even if you see no reason to go over 80M, though\nI must admit that I am such a packrat that within 6 months of getting my \ncomputer, I was backing up a lot of stuff to floppies that I rarely use to \nbecause I was running out of space, without having started using DTP stuff, \nsoftPC or trying any unix os!)", "I currently have some grayscale image files that are not in any\nstandard format. They simply contain the 8-bit pixel values. I would\nlike to display these images on a PC. The conversion to a GIF format\nwould be helpful. This conversion can take place either on a PC\nor on a UNIX system and I could then download it to the PC.\nCan anyone suggest where I can find software to do this? Alternatively, I\nmay have to write my own conversion program. In this case, could someone\ntell me where I can find the GIF format specification?\n\nPlease e-mail me directly at: shayla@shannon.jpl.nasa.gov", "I have the March/April version of the X Journal open in front of me.\n\nI'll be working on programming x-clients this summer, and since I don't have\nmuch experience with programming X, I thought this issue might be helpful\nas it has a section on debugging, and a section on the 40 most common errors\nin programming X.\n\nAt the end of the errors section, there are the following references for\ntutorials on X programming style. They are:\n\nRosenthal, David - A simple X11 client program\n Proceedings of the Winter 1988 Usenix Conference, 1988.\n\nLemke, D., and Rosenthal, D. - Visualizing X11 clients\n Proceedings of the Winter 1989 Usenix Conference, 1989.\n\n\nDoes anyone know where I could find these in printed or (preferably)\nelectronic form?\n\nOr can you suggest any net resources devoted to the introduction to\nprogramming X (I'll be looking at the bookstore for books, so I am really\nonly asking about what I can find on the net.)\n\nThanks,\n\nDavid Simpson", "\nUm... they've sold the Cray. They realised that spending two years on\nnumbercrunching the finite stress analysis figures for the complex\ninjection-molded cases was not the way to go, and was holding up\ndevelopment work.\nEspecially when the first FEA model for the portable left out the battery\ncover, and it had to be redone. That's why the portable was about three\nyears late.\n\nDesigning metal cases is easier - they're managing with the Calculator DA,\nnow it can compute 45/100-0.45 correctly.\n\nAny other suggestions?", "DK>.@SUBJECT:VHS Movies [must sell because I am moving] N\nDK>.@FROM :koutd@hiramb.hiram.edu N\nDK>Newsgroups: misc.forsale,rec.video\nDK>Subject: VHS Movies [must sell because I am moving]\nDK>Message-ID: <1993Apr22.095736.1@hiramb.hiram.edu>\nDK>From: koutd@hiramb.hiram.edu (DOUGLAS KOU)\nDK>Date: 22 Apr 93 09:57:36 -0500\nDK>Organization: Hiram College\n\nDK>Those VHS movies have to be sold because I am moving in 6 weeks.\nDK>And I have no idea what happend to those people who made the\nDK>deal with me before. So here I am, trying to post another message,\nDK>againt. ( I don't mean to waste your valuable time.)\n\nDK>Basic Instinct $11.00\nDK>Born on the Forth of July $11.00\nDK>Backdraft $11.00\nDK>Presumed Innocent $11.00\nDK>The Prince of Tides $11.00\nDK>Dance of Wolves $11.00\n\nDK>All the prices are including shipping. You get all of them for\nDK>$60.00.\n\nDK>Package deals are very welcome...\n\nDK>So make me an offer...\n\nDK>Douglas Kou\nDK>Hiram College\nDK>koutd@hirama.hiram.edu\nDouglas,\n Hi, I'd like to purchase \"Basic Instinct\" for $11. All of my other\n notes to you have been returned. I don't know why. It keeps\n saying address unknown. Please let me know if this movie is still\n available. Thank you.\n Jordan McAuley in Atlanta\n dita@info-gw.blackwlf.mese.com\n---\n . SLMR 2.0 . \n ", "\n\tWhere can I buy or build a device that will convert 20 ma\ncurrent loop signals to RS232 voltages? I know some old terminals\ncame with that option, but none of the ones I own have that. Anyway,\nI want to connect a computer to this old industrial computer to use\nthe computer with communications software as a console instead of\nan old DecWriter. Please e-mail me if you have any info that would\npoint me in the right direction. \n\n\n", "to widgets:\napplication code\nto a\naction to do this, processing any events afterwards.\nsequence\nevents\nthe\n \nUse a workProc. See XtAppAddWorkProc(3Xt).\n\nYou should split your drawing routnie up into small chunks (this\nis the hard part). Then, in the callback that starts the drawing,\nyou call XtAppAddWorkProc() to call your workProc the first time. \nYour workProc should be a function that returns a boolean...\nTRUE when you are finished, and FALSE when you want to keep\nprocessing. If you return FALSE, the workProc is automatically\nre-installed. \n\nNote that this method is better that using a time-out loop, since\nevents get processed in a more precedence-oriented manner. If you\nare using the same Ada bindings I am, however, you are hosed, and\nshould look into XtAppAddTimeout(3Xt).\n\n----------\nJoe Hildebrand\nhildjj@fuentez.com\nSoftware Engineer\nFuentez Systems Concepts\n(703)273-1447", "\nI don't see this as a problem with the chip-set (a mistake), I see this\nas something that was designed-in intentionally.\n\nSo it would seem that to enhance the design (from 24 to 32-bit EISA DMA)\nwould require an update to the chipset. An update to the chipset may \nbegat an update to the motherboard board design.\n\nWhat I'm saing is: The motherboard manufacturer seems to be passing this\noff as a simple fix. In my mind the fix is a updated chipset from HINT \nalong with a possible motherboard layout update. This is not simple.\nIf I were you I would be cautious about this.\n\nYou might look into the Advanced Integration Research (AIR) VL/EISA\nmotherboard. All slots are EISA/ISA capable. 2 (or 3) of the slots are\nVL-bus capable. The AIR people confirmed this board supports 'real'\n32-bit EISA DMA (I called them). Pentium/P5 (?) capable. Less expensive\nthan equivalent AMI or Micronics VL/EISA board.\n\nLook in Computer Shopper (April '93). The ZENON ads show the AIR mother-\nboard. A associate bought the AIR board and is pleased with it. I'm\nattempting to get the local dealer to trade out the HAWK board for the\nAIR board.\n\nModel number of AIR board (with 486-33DX) is B433EI2. You can call\nMotherboard Warehouse (for example) for a price. Phone #'s included\nbelow.\n\nAIR (408)-428-0800\nMotherboard Warehouse (800)-486-9975\n", "Looking for people to buy brand new software packages including Microsoft\nWindows, Harvard Graphics, Pagemaker, Paradox, Lotus, etc. at 20-25% off\nlist price.", "I have a Powerbook 170 4/40 that is over 1 year old with no warranty but, in\nperfect condition (with original Apple fax/modem), that I would consider\nselling you for around a $1000. Get back to me with what you think would be\nequitable arrangements (sp?). Have all manuals and system disks, some software\nin boxes and loaded, but threw out the Mac packaging.\n-ts-\n\n---\n * Origin: hp NEMESIS ph (23:303/1)", "\n\nXt(App)AddTimeout doesn't work in xterm, because, despite appearances \nto the contrary, xterm is not really an Xt based application. \"Other\nsources\" like timeouts and inputs are never checked in xterm's main\nloop. So don't be surprised when you try this and it doesn't work.\n\n--", "I am upgrading my computer systems to FAX modems, and am selling my\n2 2400/1200/300 baud USR modems without FAX or error correction.\n\nOne is internal ($25), the other is external ($30). \n\nBoth are U.S. Robotics (the highest rated modem manufacturer).\n\nAdd $4 shipping or pick up in the Washington DC area.\n\nOffers welcome. (I would trade either for a 1x3x70ns SIMM.)", "\n\n\n\n\n\nYeah, there is absolutely no use for VLB except for video graphics.\nAnd no IDE could possibly take advantage the VLB, because it runs at\n8 Mhz and 16 bits. Do people forget that the IDE was specifically\ndesigned to interface directly with the AT ISA bus? We've seen\nIDEs come out for EISA, XT ISA, and now even MCA, but at all times\nit was a 16 bit standard, running at somewhere near 8-10 Mhz. When\nyou run an IDE off of the VLB, there's no way that you're running it\nat 33 Mhz, it would burn up. Of course same goes for SCSI, ESDI, whatever,\nnone of them run at CPU speed.\n\nThe only way to gain advantage with a VLB IDE is to hook it up to\na caching controller. I suspect it would be much, much better to\nget a software disk cache instead, since you get write-caching as well.\n\n\nI've seen some Fuji IDE drives going as high as 1G.", "Does anyone know of an FTP site where I might find public\ndomain software for the Motorola 68HC16 microprocessor?\nI am looking for a basic interpreter/compilier or a 'C'\ncompiler. Thanks in advance.\n\t\t\t\t\tEd Murashie\n", "\n\nIf you bought your IDE drive from a dealer, you shouldn 't have to \nperform a low level format. Even if the 1st HD is already partitioned\ninto C and D, FDISK will automatically assign the 2 nd HD to D and \nchange the 2nd partition of 1st drive to E.", "Texas Instruments TI-81 calculalor. Excellent scientific calculator. ", "\nDo you mean the icons _of_ the program groups, or the icons of the\nindividual programs _in_ the program groups? I assume you mean the\nlatter, and the answer is: sure you can. Just click once (not double)\non the application icon, then Alt-F P (File | Properties). Click on the\nChange Icon box and tell it the icon filename. Or use the Browse\nsub-selection.\n\n\nI use Alt-Tab. Hold the Alt key and repeatedly press Tab until you see\nProgram Mangler up. Then release the Alt key.\n\n", "Any idea on the price range of the Cyclone or the Tempest? (compared to \ncurrent line of computers, where will the new ones fall in price)\n-- \n============================================================================\n KEEPER: Heh heh. Stop! What is your name?\n ARTHUR: It is Arthur, King of the Britons.\n KEEPER: What is your quest?\n ARTHUR: To seek the Holy Grail.\n KEEPER: What is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?\n ARTHUR: What do you mean? An African or European swallow?\n KEEPER: What? I don't know that! Auuuuuuuugh!\n BEDEMIR: How do know so much about swallows?\n ARTHUR: Well, you have to know these things when you're a king you know.", "Hello Everybody!\n\nI have a little question:\n\nDue to more features (PEX, Drag&Drop) many applications when linked with for\nexample Motif 1.2 instead Motif 1.1 need more memory in the Xserver.\nX-terminals only have limited memory (normally no swapping possible). So my\nquestion:\n\nIs there a possibility to determine via X protocol calls the size of free\nmemory available to the Xserver?\n\nSo one can determine for example whether to start a PEX application with the\nCSS on client side or on server side (when there is enough memory).\n\nPlease reply via e-mail, I'll summarize!\n\nSincerly,\n Matthias\n", "Does Autodesk has a BBS ?\n", "On my PC I almost exclusively run windows. The only dos based application \nI have is ProcommPlus. In my config.sys I have emm386 loaded with the \noption noems (no expanded memory). Following a thread in one of the comp \nnewsgroups, I read that it was no necessary to have emm386 loaded. Indeed, \nin the manual, it says that emm386 is used to get expanded memory out of \nextended memory. Since I have the noems option, it seems to me that the \nemm386 device is useless in my case. \n\nShould I use emm386 or should I remove it from my config.sys?\n\nThanks for your help,", " OOPS - got home and re-checked and found out that it\nISNT the Radius Video Vision which was mentioned as having\nproblems. None the less, I still have a chance to buy one\nrelatively cheap - can anyone say how well it seems to work,\nand if there has been a newer model introduced (accounting\nfor the price reduction?)\n\nTHANKS and thousands of apologies to Radius ...\n", ": Currently, I use a shareware program called Graphics Workshop.\n: What kinds of things will Hijaak do that these shareware programs\n: will not do?\n\nI also use Graphic Workshop and the only differences that I know of are that\nHijaak has screen capture capabilities and acn convert to/from a couple of\nmore file formats (don't know specifically which one). In the April 13\nissue of PC Magazine they test the twelve best selling image capture/convert\nutilities, including Hijaak.", "Please reply via e-mail since this is job related: \n\nI have a Colorado Jumbo back-up system at one of my places of \nemployment and it has eaten two tapes by winding the tape off the spool.\n\nIs there an easy fix or is the tape drive fried? Does it simply need \ncleaning?\n\nAny and all comments will be appreciated!\n\nStephen Husak\n", "\n > \n > Regarding the horror stories about DOS6/DOUBLEDISK and STACKER 2.?\n > killing hard drives:\n > \n > I was wondering if the dos 6 MIRROR command works on the doubled\n > drive info as well as the normal fat table and partition table.\n > If it records the vital DoubleDisk info, then using it daily\n > should go a long way toward protecting yourself against the\n > type of catastrophic failure discussed. If it doesn't, then\n > shame on Microsoft.\n > \n\n MIRROR is one of those DOS commands that didn't survive the change \n from DOS 5.0. It's been dropped, along with BACKUP, JOIN, EDLIN \n and a couple other crummy old DOS commands. You can still use the\n 5.0 commands if you absolutely have to, but they are not included\n on the 6.0 distribution disks.\n\n However, in MIRROR's case, I'm 99.9% certain that it does not know\n anything about DoubleSpaced drives...\n\n\nEric", "\n\tPerforma 200 == Classic II\n\tPerforma 400 == LC II\n\tPerforma 4xx == LC III\n\tPerforma 600 == well, nothing :)\n\n\tThe Performas are made to be low-cost business solutions. The 4xx have\nbundled software, modems, etc.\n\tBecause they have no \"retail price\" you might be able to get a steeper\ndiscount on them. Shop around.\n\n\tAs far as the monitors go, buy 3rd party. Much cheaper.", " After hearing endless debate (READ: name-calling) over which os is better, dos\n and windows or OS/2 and finally having enought resourses to play with a couple\n of different operating systems, I have decided to put the two products to a\n head to head test, as so many fellow newsposters have suggested. I have, \n however, no desire whatsoever to use a version of os/2 which wont REALLY\n do what it says (i.e. run windows apps) OS/2 2.0-2.1 will not run windows\n apps in 386 enhansed mode, something that most larger windows apps require, but\n OS/2 2.2, which is supposed to be in beta test, is supposed to. I have heard\n that os/2 2.2 beta is available via ftp, and I was wondering if anyone knew\n where to obtain a copy. I would appreciate any information, as I would like, \n once and for all, to establish for myself which is the best os for my needs.\n\n ->Robbie<-\n z_shererrg.sfasu.edu\n\nIf you wait until May the 18th you will be able to buy the new OS/2\n2.1 since it will be released at Comdex that day. It will run Windows\n3.1 apps and Windows enh. mode. If you can't wait, then you can ftp a\n6 months old beta version from ftp-os2.nmsu.edu, but this version is\nprobably a lot slower than the final product.\n\nWhen you do your test, please have in mind that a single tasking\nsystem will always be faster at doing one task. The real power of OS2\nlies in the multitasking and can't really be measured by a stopwatch.\n\nHappy benchmarking.\nHans\n--\n------------------------------------------------------------- \nThe whales of the Atlantic and the people of the Faroe Islands \nhave coexisted in perfect harmony for the last 1000 years -\nno matter what any urban navel contamplator without any real\nrelation to the coherence of the nature says.", "FOR SALE\n\nPC TOOLS VERSION 7.1\n\nAll original disks and manuals included.\n\n$50 or best offer\n\nPlease send replies to gt7187c@prism.gatech.edu\n\n", "I tried to E-mail you, but the message bounced.\n\nMotorola has a University Support Program through which (I've been told) folks\nat schools can get sample quantities of parts. If you'd like to try this \nroute, e-mail me for the address/phone #...I don't wish to post it for all the\nworld to see.", "I have a chance to buy a used PS/2 Appletalk card to create a network with\nmy home machines. However, the guy who has the card tells me there's a\nDB-9 or DB-15 (can't remember now) on the back of the card, rather than\nthe 8-pin (or 4-pin) mini-din that I expect. This sounds more like a\nThicknet ethernet card. Should there be a transciever on it, like on the\nQuadras? What would be a reasonable price to expect to pay for one of\nthese cards, keeping in mind that it's Micro-Channel Architecture, which\nmeans take your best guess and double it.\nEmail replies would be appreciated, to here or to rrr@ideas.com\nThanks.\n[RICHR]", "The following books are up for sale.\nAll are in good to excellent condition.\n\nMake offers.\n\nrob@phavl.uucp ( uunet!phavl!rob )\nRobert Ransbottom\nGeneral Supply & Metals, Inc.\nvoice: 508-999-6257\n\nIndex:\n Miscellany\n C \n C++\n Unix & Operating System\n Intel Processor & MS-DOS\n\n\nMiscellany:\n\n Algorithms, 2nd Ed., Sedgewick, Hardbound\n List: $41.00\n\n Programmers at Work, Lammers\n List: $10.00\n\n Software Reliability, Musa, Iannino, Okumoto HARDBOUND\n List: $51.00\n\n The Users Guide to Small Computers, Jerry Pournelle\n List: $10.00\n\n Out of the Inner Circle, Bill Landreth\n List: $10.00\n\n Elementary Pascal, Ledgard, Singer\n List: $13.00\n\nC++ Language:\n\n Object Oriented Program Design with Examples in C++, Mark Mullin\n List: $20.00\n\nC Language:\n\n Variations in C, Schustack\n List: $23.00\n\n Programs and Data Structures in C, Ammeraal\n List: $20.00\n\n Turbo C Programmer's Library, Jamsa\n List: $23.00\n\n Advanced Turbo C, Hebert Schildt\n List: $23.00\n\n Understanding C, Bruce Hunter\n List: $18.00\n\n C Database Development, Al Stevens\n List: $24.00\n\n C Programmer's Library, Purdum, Leslie, Stegemotter\n List: $20.00\n\n Dr. Dobbs Toolbook of C, Dr. Dobb's Journal\n List: $25.00\n\n C with Excellence Programing Proverbs, Henry Ledgard\n List: $19.00\n\n C, the Pocket Reference, Herbert Schildt\n List: $5.00\n\n C Programming Guide, Jack Purdum, SOME WEAR\n List: $25.00\n\n C Programmer's Toolkit (w/ Disk), Jack Purdum\n List: $40.00\n\n C: Step-by-Step, Waite, Prata\n List: $28.00\n \nUnix and Operating System:\n \n The Unix System V Environment, S. R. Bourne\n List: $27.00\n\n UNIX Papers, Michael Waite, editor\n List: $27.00\n \n UNIX for MS-DOS Programmers, Steven Mikes\n List: $25.00\n\n The Business Guide to the UNIX System, Yates, Emerson\n List: $20.00\n\n UNIX Programming on the 80286/80386, Alan Deikman\n List: $25.00\n\n UNIX The Complete Reference, Stephen Collin\n List: $25.00\n\n Unix Primer Plus, Waite, Martin, Prata\n List: $20.00\n\n UNIX for Programmers, An Introduction, Daniel Farkas\n List: $23.00\n\n Unix for Super-Users, Foxley\n List: $26.00\n\n UNIX Communications, Henderson, et al\n List: $28.00\n\n Microport System V Made Easy: Learning the UNIX O.S., O'Reilly ( SV.3.2)\n List: $10.00\n\n Understanding and Using COFF, Gintaras, O'Reilly & Assoc.\n List: $22.00\n\n Operating System Design The XINU Approach, P.C. Ed., D. Comer & Foosum, HARD\n List: $53.00\n\n Microcomputer Operating Systems, Dahmke\n List: $17.00\n\nINTEL Processor, MS-DOS:\n \n Inside the IBM PC (w/ disk), Peter Norton\n List: $30.00\n\n Using Turbo Prolog, Robinson\n List: $20.00\n\n Using Assembly Language, Wyatt (ibm pc orientation)\n List: $27.00\n\n Compute's Quick & Easy Guide to Learning Lotus 1-2-3, Doug Wolf\n List: $13.00\n\n Advanced 80386 Programming Techniques, James Turley\n List: $23.00\n\n intel 80386 System Software Writer's Guide, Intel Corp.\n List: $20.00\n\n Performance Programming Under MS-DOS, Michael Young\n List: $20.00\n\n Programmer's Problem Solver for the IBM PC, XT & AT, R. Jourdain\n List: $20.00", "Can anyone around here point me to information regarding STEREOSCOPIC images?\nI believe I saw some at a show room in Texas (Lone Star Illusions) and \nthey were amazing. I've now heard that they were created with a simple \ngraphic program. Does anyone have any of these images digitized?? \nI really want to find a out as much as I can..", "Hello,\n\nI want a little network for 3 users. All users want to run Windows.\nThe most important things I want for the network are: file-sharing,\nmail utility, two printers on one of the computers and a fax/modem\ncard on one of the computers. We all want to use each others harddisk.\n\nMy idea was to buy three computers (one 486DX and two 386DX). All\nthree have a 40Mb local harddisk, the 486 also has a very large\nharddisk. All three also have a network card. The 486 is connected to\nthe printers and contains the fax/modem card. And last but not least:\nWorkgroups for Windows.\n\nMy questions:\n- Is this possible?\n- What exactly are the possibilities and advantages of Workgroups\n for Windows?\n- Will all the computers be fast enough? Behind all three, someone\n is working.", "Hi. I've looked in the FAQ and the O-Reilly books and was unable to\nfind (an easy) means of finding out the state of state keys such as\nCapsLock and NumLock. I can certainly track the events inside of my\nwindow and set a boolean there, but what if CapsLock is pressed in\nanother window? I looked at XGrabKey() and decided it was definitely\nNOT what I wanted to do. I could find no convenience function to tell\nme that information.\n\nMy question is this: Is there a means of determining what the state\nof CapsLock and/or NumLock is?\n\nAn even more pointed question: Is there an easy means of making an X\nkeyboard act like a PC keyboard? ie, CapsLock is active, and the user\npresses shift-a, I'd like to get a lowercase 'a' instead of 'A'.\n\nAny input is greatly appreciated. Please respond via email. I will\nrepost a summary of my findings.", "my 14\" compacq vga monitor id dead due to the transformer's failure.\n\nif you have this part and would like to get rid of it, pls\nlet me know.\n\nthanks.", "I need help identifying this board that I found stuffed away in a corner.\n\nAs the title says, all that is printed on it is NATIONAL INSTRUMENTS NB-DMA-8.\nIt fits fine in my Mac IIci and snooper gives the very same name for the\nboard. It looks like it has an HP-IB connector on the back of it and\nanother connector on the top (2 rows by 25 pins). It also looks like\nit has an Intel processor on it (#A82380-16 Intel '86)\n\nOn an EEPROM there is a sticker with the P/N 700584-01.\n\nAnybody ever seen or heard of one? Or better yet, do you know what it does?\nWe are all clueless here. Our last option is to hook it up to our HP\nworkstations and see if any smoke comes out.\n\nThanks a lot!\n\nKevin\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------", "I tried to e-mail you but it bounced so...\n\nHi there,\n\n\nIt might be that the X terminal doesn't support the \"Postscript\nExtensions to X\" product. I use the 'dxpsview' program on a \nDECstation 5000 to view postscript files but when I moved to an\nNCD X terminal, I couldn't use it any more. So I ftp'd and\ncompiled GhostScript (GNU software). Now we can view postscript\nfiles on our X terminals.\n\nHope this helps.\n\nGrant\n", ": Where can I get xman source? I would like to get the binaries for\n: xman for an HP 9000/700, but I would settle for source. \n: \n: --\nTry xport.lcs.mit.edu, in direcotry /contrib.\n--", "\n\nRS Components (they exist in Australia and the UK. Don't know about the US) have\nlittle chips called Isolated MAX 250 and 251. They give you isolated RS-232 from\na single 5V supply. External components are 4 caps, 4 optoisolators, a diode,\nand an isloting transformer. They go up to 19.2K baud..\n\nJohn West", "From article <1993Apr21.013846.1374@cx5.com>, by tlc@cx5.com:\n\nAccording to my ColoRIX manual .SCF files are 640x480x256\n\n\nYou may try VPIC, I think it handles the 256 color RIX files OK..\n", "Hi. I own an LCIII and I recently heard an interesting rumor.\nI heard that the LCIII has a built in slot for a PowerPC chip.\nIs this true? I heard that the slot is not the same as the PDS\nslot. Is that true?", "\n\n\nThe problem is with ISA bus-masters which\ncan only address the first 16MBs of system\nmemory. Bus-masters do not use the CPU\nnor the system DMA to do the actual data\ntransfer but transfer their data directly\nto the system RAM.\n\nrp93", "\n\n None. You need to buy 2 80ns 256k VRAM SIMMs. They cost about $30\neach from your favorite memory distributor.\n\n\n The 512k is soldered to the logic board. There are 2 SIMM slots for\nexpansion.", "\n\tThis happens when your X server has run out of memory. You need\nmore memory or you need to quit any un-neccessary running clients.", "********************************************************************\n* *\n* Announcing *\n* *\n* COSY_PAK * \n* * \n* (A symbolic COntrol SYstems analysis PAcKage) * \n* *\n* Version 0.9 * \n* \t\t * \n* (NO USER FEE RELEASE) * \n* *\n* for *\n* *\n* Mathematica Version 2.0 or higher *\n* *\n********************************************************************\n\n==> INTRODUCTION\n\n COSY_PAK is set of packages and notebooks for classical control and \n(some) modern (state space) control analysis and design methods. The\nnotebooks in COSY_PAK follow a typical `Control Engineering I' course\ntaught at many universities around the world for the junior/senior \nlevel undergraduates. There is NO FEE to use COSY_PAK but certain \nresponsibilities are expected of the user (see Copyright notice in the \nREADME file included below). For starters e-mail / FAX / Mail (Post) \nthe registration form included in the README file.\n\nCOSY_PAK is available via `anonymous ftp' from\n\n mishna.esys.cwru.edu (INTERNET No : 129.22.40.23) \n\nin the /pub directory. \n\nP.S.: A typical ftp session in UNIX is given after the README file. \n\n\n==> FUTURE RELEASES\n\n If you would like to receive updates and newer versions of\nCOSY_PAK please send e-mail/FAX/mail to the address\nbelow. In addition, your comments and suggestions are\nappreciated and are invaluable to us. We will do our best\nto fix any reported bugs. However, we cannot fix those\nbugs that have not been reported to us and those we do not\nknow of. We would very much appreciate you taking a few\nminutes to communicate to us via e-mail / US Mail / \nTelephone / FAX. This will help us to release bug-free\nversions in the future. Comments are welcome. \n\nN. Sreenath\nSystems Engineering Department\nCase School of Engineering\nCase Western Reserve University\n\n******************\ne-mail: sree@mishna.cwru.edu\n\nU.S. Mail:\n\nProf. N. Sreenath Tel.: (216) 368-6219\nSystems Engg., Crawford Hall FAX: (216) 368-3123\nCase Western Reserve Univ.\nCleveland OH 44106-7070\n \n========================= Begin README file =========================\n\n\n\n\n (NO USER FEE RELEASE)\n\n\t\t\t COSY_PAK \n\t\t\t \n\t (A symbolic COntrol SYstems analysis PAcKage)\n\t\t\t \n\t\t\t Version 0.9 \n\t\t \n\t for\n\t\t\t\t\n \tMathematica Version 2.0 or higher\n\n by\n\n C.K.Chen \t\tN. Sreenath\n\t\t\n\t \t Systems Engineering\n\t\t Case School of Engineering\n\t \t Case Western Reserve University\t\t\n\t \t Cleveland, OH, 44106-7070\t\t \n\t\t e-mail: sree@mishna.cwru.edu\n\t\t\t\n--> Copyright\n :Copyright: Copyright 1992 by C. K. Chen and N. Sreenath, Case \nWestern Reserve University. \n \n Permission to use, copy, modify and distribute this software and \nits documentation for any purpose and without fee is hereby granted, \nprovided that the above copyright notice appear in supporting \ndocumentation, and the name of the Case Western Reserve University,\nCase School of Engineering not be used in advertising or publicity \npertaining to distribution of the software without specific, without \nprior permission. Case Western Reserve University makes no \nrepresentations about the suitability of this software for any \npurpose. It is provided \"as is\" with out express or implied warranty.\n \t\t\n--> Acknowledgements\n\n Support from CWRU Information and Network Services - Dr. Ray Neff,\nCase Alumni Association, The Lilly Foundation and the Systems \nEngineering Department of Case Western Reserve University is \ngratefully acknowledged. Special thanks to Brian Evans of Georgia Tech \nfor all the help. \n\n--> FTP\n\n COSY_PAK is available by anonymous `ftp' from \nmishna.esys.cwru.edu (Internet No. 129.22.40.23). A sample ftp session \nis given at the end of this file.\n\n**********************************************************************\n\n--> Changes in Version 0.9 (update from v0.81 to v0.9)\n\n\tIn this version, we have revised COSY_PAK to take advantage of \nthe more robust signal processing functions available in Mathematica v2.1. \nSince Mathematica 2.1 provides a better and working \nLaplaceTransform and InverseLaplaceTransform functions than \nMathematica v2.0 did, we adopted them. This has made COSY_PAK \nsmaller. Thus Brian Evans' Signal Processing packages that supported \nthe LaplaceTransform and InverseLaplaceTransform functions in the \nCOSY_PAK v0.81 are no longer needed directly by COSY_PAK v0.9. For \npower users who use Signal Processing we still recommend the use of the very \nfine Brian Evans package on Signal Processing (available at \nthe anonymous ftp site gauss.eedsp.gatech.edu or IP # 130.207.226.24). On \nthe downside, the disadvantage of this update \ncan be that Mathematica 2.1 requires more runtime resources than its \nprevious version. \n\n\n***********************************************************************\t\n--> For Mathematica 2.0 users\n\t\n\tWe have included the LaplaceTransform package from Mathematica 2.1 in \nthe directory `For_2.0'. Please move all files and directory under For_2.0 into \nthe Calculus directory under Mathematica Packages directory. \n\n**************************************************************************\n\t \n--> Introduction\n \n This is an unsupported release of COSY_PAK - a COntrol SYstems \nanalysis PAcKage for symbolic control systems analysis using \nMathematica 2.1. Classical control systems analysis and design methods and some \nmodern control systems methods have been implemented in this package. \n \n This package and the attendant notebooks were developed on a \nNeXT (TM) computer (a UNIX based workstation). They have been \nused as a supplementary teaching aid along with standard control \nengineering texts (Ogata [1991], Phillips and Harbor [1991]) for \nundergraduate courses in `Control Engineering I' taught at the Systems \nEngineering Department of CWRU. In addition to the NeXT, they have \nalso been tested successfully on Apple Macintosh computers (TM), and, \nIBM PC's (TM) running MS Windows(TM). We would be very much interested \nto hear from you if you or anybody you know uses this software on \nplatforms not mentioned above. IBM users however will have to \nevaluate the notebooks first to visualize the graphics.\n\n Once installed (see below for instructions), this collection of \nMathematica packages can be loaded by any user. Bundled with the \npackages are many notebooks (\"COSY_Notes\") which demonstrate \nthe functionality of these packages. The notebooks follow a plan of \nmany fine, standard, undergraduate Control Engineering text books \nlisted in the references. Examples used in these notebooks have \nbeen collected from the various references given at the end of this \nfile. The contents of the notebooks in the \"COSY_Notes\" directory are \ngiven below.\n \n ----------- Begin \"COSY_Notes\" Contents -----------\n \n NOTEBOOK FILE NAME: 01_Introduction.ma\n CHAPTER 1: Introduction to Control Systems\n\t\n\tSections: \n\t Analyticity\n\t Poles and Zeros\n\t Signals\n\t Forward Laplace Transforms\n\t Inverse Laplace Transforms\n\t Differential Equation With Zero-Valued Initial Conditions\n\t Differential Equation With Initial Conditions\n\t \t \n -----------\n \n NOTEBOOK FILE NAME: 02_Math_Models.ma\n CHAPTER 2: Mathematical Modeling of Dynamic Systems\n\n \t Sections: \n\t ODE to State Space \n\t Linearization of a Nonlinear System of Equations \n\t State Space to Transfer Function\n\t\t \n -----------\n \n NOTEBOOK FILE NAME: 03_*_Transient_Response.ma\n CHAPTER 3: Transient-Response Analysis \n (Chapter split into three sub notebooks because of file\n\t size)\n\n\t NOTEBOOK FILE NAME: 03_1_Transient_Response.ma\n \n\t Sections : \n\t Time Response Analysis \n\t First order System \n\t Second Order System \n\t Third Order and Higher Order Systems\n\t \n NOTEBOOK FILE NAME: 03_2_Transient_Response.ma\n \n\t Sections : \t \n\t First Order System (Step Response vs. Time Const) \n\t \n\t \n NOTEBOOK FILE NAME: 03_3_Transient_Response.ma\n \n\t Sections :\n\t Second Order System (Step Response vs. Damping Ratio) \n\t \n\t \n -----------\n\n NOTEBOOK FILE NAME: 04_Steady_State_Response.ma\n CHAPTER 4: Steady-State Response\n \n Sections:\t \n\t Routh's Stability \n \t Steady-State Error Analysis\n \n -----------\n\t\t\n NOTEBOOK FILE NAME: 05_Root_Locus.ma\n CHAPTER 5: Root-Locus Analysis\n\n -----------\n \n NOTEBOOK FILE NAME: 06_Freq_Response.ma\n CHAPTER 6: Frequency-Response Analysis\n\n Sections:\n\t Bode Plot Analysis \n\t Magnitude vs. Phase Plot (Nichols Plot)\n\t Polar Plot \n\t Nyquist Plot \n\t Combined Example\n\t \n -----------\n \n NOTEBOOK FILE NAME: 07_State_Space.ma\n CHAPTER 7: State Space Methods\n\n Sections:\n\t Introduction\n\t State Transition Matrix\n\t Controllability\n\t Observability\n\t Output Controllability\n\t Pole Placement Design \n\t Observer Design\n\t Time Response Using State Space Methods\n\n \n ----------- End Notebook Contents -----------\n \n\n--> Compressed Files\n\n The files that contain a complete set of the COSY_PAK v0.9\npackages and Notebooks for Mathematica are:\n\n COSY_PAK_09.tar.Z \t\tcompressed tar file for Unix systems\n\t\n COSY_PAK_09.sit.hqx \tcompressed sit file for Macintosh \n \t\t\t\tsystems and encoded by BinHex 4.0 \n\t\t\t\tformat (requires the shareware\n\t\t\t\t Stuffit file v 1.5.1 or higher). \n\t\n COSY_PAK_IBM_09.zip \tzip file for the IBM PC running MS-DOS\n \n Once expanded the Mathematica files can also be used on \nMacintosh / IBM PC / Unix systems also.\n\n\n--> Installation of COSY_PAK\n\n o In UNIX Command line type the following command:\n\n zcat COSY_PAK_09.tar.Z | tar xvf -\n\n o In Macintosh open the .sit.hqx file using the shareware\n Stuffit v 1.5.1 or higher.\n \n o In IBM Command line type the following command:\n\n pkunzip -o -d COSY_PAK_IBM_09.zip\n\nNOTE: This .zip file was zipped by zip utility v2.0. You must use \npkunzip version 2.0 or higher to unzip it. IBM PC's may limit the \ndirectory name characters to eight. In that event type \"pkunzip -o -d \nCOSY_PAK.zip. You can also unzip the COSY_PAK_IBM_09.zip file on any \nUnix machine if you have unzip utility on it.\n\n\n Uncompressing and untarring \"COSY_PAK_09.tar.Z\" or unzipping \n\"COSY_PAK_IBM_09.zip\" will create a directory called \"COSY_PAK\".\n \t\nOnce the files are expanded you should see a single directory \n\"COSY_PAK\" containing the following three files, four \nsub-directories and their contents:\n\nSUB-DIRECTORIES in \"COSY_PAK\": \n COSYPAK - contains control tool box packages \n MANUAL - COSY_PAK manual in .ps, .rtf, .txt, and .wn formats. \n COSY_Notes - contains notebooks \n For_2.0 - contains Laplace transform package from Mathematica 2.1\n \t\tFor Mathematica 2.0 users.\t \n \t\t\nFILES in directory \"COSYPAK\":\n chap1.m chap2.m chap3.m chap4.m chap5.m chap6.m chap7.m\n\t\nFILES in directory \"COSY_Notes\":\n\t01_Introduction.ma\t \n\t02_Math_Model.ma\n\t03_1_Transient_Response.ma \n\t03_2_Transient_Response.ma \n\t03_3_Transient_Response.ma \n\t04_Steady_State_Response.ma\n\t05_Root_Locus.ma\t \n\t06_Freq_Response.ma \n\t07_State_Space.ma \n\t\nFILES in directory \"For_2.0\":\n\tLaplaceTransform.m DiracDelta.m\t\n\tSUB-DIRECTORIES in \"COSY_PAK\":\tCommon\n\tFILES in directory \"Common\": Support.m\n\n********************* Important ********************\t\n\n\tThe notebook example files(.ma files) will be under the \n\"COSY_Notes\" directory. To use the notebooks, move the directory `COSYPAK' to \na \ndirectory that Mathematica can recognize :\n\t\n /LocalLibrary/Mathematica/Packages \ton a UNIX machine,\n MY_HardDisk:Mathematica:Packages \ton an Apple Macintosh,\n c:\\winmath\\packages \ton an IBM PC.\n\n\tAt the beginning of the \"Initialization\" cell of each notebook \nin \"COSY_Notes\" directory, we list the example about how to make \nMathematica identify the directory:\n\n\t(* Initialization of Path *)\n\n\t(* Example For a UNIX machine (Default) *) \n\t(*\n\t$Path=Join[$Path,\n\t{\"/LocalLibrary/Mathematica/Packages\"}];\n\t*)\n\t\n\t(* Example For an Apple Macintosh *) \n\t(*\n\t$Path=Join[$Path,\n\t{\"MY_HardDisk:Mathematica:Packages\"}];\n\t*)\n\t\n\t(* Example For IBM PC \t\n\t *)\n\t(*\n\t$Path=Join[$Path,\t\n\t {\"c:\\winmath\\packages\"}];\t\n\t*)\t\n\nChange the pathname according to your machine by removing the \nMathematica comment sign `(*' and `)*' before and after `$Path' \nsetting.\n\n\tThis command makes Mathematica recognize the directory\n\n /LocalLibrary/Mathematica/Packages \ton a UNIX machine\n MY_HardDisk:Mathematica:Packages \ton a Apple Macintosh\n c:\\winmath\\packages \ton an IBM PC\n\n\n--> Mathematica 2.0 users\n\t\n\tWe include the LaplaceTransform package from Mathematica 2.1 in \nthe directory For_2.0. Please move all files and directory under For_2.0 \ninto the Calculus directory under Mathematica Packages directory. \n\n\n--> Getting started\n\n After installation, start Mathematica and open the notebooks in \nthe \"COSY_Notes\" directory. All notebooks load their own packages. \nNavigate in the notebooks and enjoy. IBM users however will have to \nevaluate the notebooks to visualize the graphics.\n \n*************************************************************** \n\n--> USER RESPONSIBILITIES\n\n We request you to take a few minutes and fill out the \ninformation below and mail it to us by e-mail / FAX / U.S. Mail. This \nwill help us to keep your abreast of the improvements and release new \nversions of COSY_PAK. Suggestions for improvements are welcome.\n\n-------------------------------cut here-------------------------------\n \n YOUR NAME: ________________________________________\n \n ORGANIZATION: ________________________________________\n \n TITLE: ________________________________________\n \n e-mail: ________________________________________\n\n POSTAL ADDRESS:________________________________________\n \n ________________________________________\n\t\t \n Comments & ________________________________________\n \n Suggestions: ________________________________________\n\t\t \n ________________________________________\n\t\t \n\n\n\n-------------------------------cut here-------------------------------\n\nMail this information to (E-mail / FAX / U.S. Mail) :\n\nINTERNET: sree@mishna.cwru.edu\n\nU.S. Mail:\n\nProf. N. Sreenath Tel.: (216) 368-6219\nSystems Engg., Crawford Hall FAX: (216) 368-3123\nCase Western Reserve Univ.\nCleveland OH 44106-7070\n \n*************************************************************** \n\n--> REPORT BUGS\n\n Please report bugs and leave comments to the address above. \nAny suggestion for improvements and criticism are welcome.\n\n We will do our best to fix any reported bugs. However, we cannot \nfix those bugs that have not been reported to us and those we do not \nknow of. We would very much appreciate you taking a few minutes to \ncommunicate to us via e-mail / US Mail / Telephone / FAX. This will \nhelp us to release bug-free versions in the future.\n\t\n\t\n***************************************************************\n\n--> Disclaimer and Future Releases\n\n \tThis software is the property of the Case Western Reserve \nUniversity. Use this software at your own risk. We make no express or \nimplied warranty.\n\n\tThe packages and the notebooks can also be made to run under \nMathematica versions 2.0 or lower with modification. We do not \nguarantee the outcome.\n\n\n--> Documentation\n\n COSY_PAK functions are indexed in the files in the \n`MANUAL' directory according the chapters. Usage is illustrated in \nnotebooks residing in `COSY_Notes' directory. If your computer does \nnot support notebooks find a Macintosh computer and acquire MathReader \nwhich is a public domain notebook reader. MathReader will at least \nallow you to peruse notebooks but you will not be able to evaluate \nany code fragments.\n\t\n\n--> References\n\nDorf, R. C., \"Modern Control Systems\", Sixth Edition, Addison \nWesley, New York, 1992.\n\nFortmann, T. E., and Hitz, K. L., \"An Introduction to Linear Control \nSystems\", Marcel Dekker, 1977.\n\nFranklin, G. F., Powell, D. J., and Emami-Naeini, A., \"Feedback \nControl of Dynamic Systems\", Second Edition, Addison Wesley, New \nYork, 1991.\n\nKuo, B. C., \"Automatic Control Systems\", Sixth Edition, Prentice Hall, \nNew Jersey, 1990.\n\nOgata, K., \"Modern Control Engineering\", Second Edition, Prentice \n\nHall, New Jersey, 1991.\n\nPhillips, C. L., and Harbor, R. D., \"Feedback Control Systems\", \nSecond Edition, Prentice Hall, New Jersey, 1991.\n\n\n========================= End README file =========================\n\nTYPICAL `ftp' session :\n-----------------------\n\n%ftp mishna.esys.cwru.edu\nConnected to mishna.\n220 mishna FTP server (Version 5.20 (NeXT 1.0) Sun Nov 11, 1990) ready.\n\nName (mishna.esys.cwru.edu:sree): anonymous\n\nPassword:\n\nftp> cd /pub\n\nftp> binary\n\nftp> ls\n200 PORT command successful.\n150 Opening ASCII mode data connection for file list.\nCOSY_PAK_09.tar.Z\nCOSY_PAK_IBM_09.zip\nIndex\nREADME\nplaces.wmd\nCOSY_PAK_untar\n226 Transfer complete.\n78 bytes received in 0 seconds (15.35 Kbytes/s)\n\nftp> get COSY_PAK_09.tar.Z\n200 PORT command successful.\n150 Opening BINARY mode data connection for COSY_PAK_09.tar.Z (460822 bytes).\n226 Transfer complete.\nlocal: COSY_PAK_09.tar.Z remote: COSY_PAK_09.tar.Z\n460822 bytes received in 1.33 seconds (3.38e+02 Kbytes/s)\n\nftp> quit\n221 Goodbye.\n\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nYeah, of course... The term 'mach banding' was not the correct one, it should've\nbeen 'color quantization effect'. Although a bad color quantization effect could\nresult in some visible mach-bands on a picture that was smooth before it was\nquantizised.\n", "Quoting pmetzger@snark.shearson.com (Perry E. Metzger) in article <1993Apr21.012011.27470@shearson.com>:\n\nHow fast do the fastest modems go?\n\nHow far can voice be compressed?", "\n\nWell, it's been a while since this was discussed so i take the liberty of\nreprinting (without permission, so sue me) Eric Haines reprint of the very\ninteresting discussion of this topic...\n\n /Jonas\n\n O / \\ O\n------------------------- X snip snip X ------------------------------\n O \\ / O\n\n\"Give a man a fish, and he'll eat one day.\nGive a man a fishing rod, and he'll laze around fishing and never do anything.\"\n\nWith that in mind, I reprint (without permission, so sue me) relevant\ninformation posted some years ago on this very problem. Note the early use of\nPostScript technology, predating many of this year's papers listed in the\nApril 1st SIGGRAPH Program Announcement posted here a few days ago.\n\n-- Eric\n\n\nIntersection Between a Line and a Polygon (UNDECIDABLE??),\n\tby Dave Baraff, Tom Duff\n\n\tFrom: deb@charisma.graphics.cornell.edu\n\tNewsgroups: comp.graphics\n\tKeywords: P, NP, Jordan curve separation, Ursyhon Metrization Theorem\n\tOrganization: Program of Computer Graphics\n\n\nI think that this is a very difficult problem. To start with, lines and\npolygons are semi-algebraic sets which both contain uncountable number of\npoints. Here are a few off-the-cuff ideas.\n\nFirst, we need to check if the line and the polygon are separated. Now, the\nJordan curve separation theorem says that the polygon divides the plane into\nexactly two open (and thus non-compact) regions. Thus, the line lies\ncompletely inside the polygon, the line lies completely outside the polygon,\nor possibly (but this will rarely happen) the line intersects the polyon.\n\nNow, the phrasing of this question says \"if a line intersects a polygon\", so\nthis is a decision problem. One possibility (the decision model approach) is\nto reduce the question to some other (well known) problem Q, and then try to\nsolve Q. An answer to Q gives an answer to the original decision problem.\n\nIn recent years, many geometric problems have been successfully modeled in a\nnew language called PostScript. (See \"PostScript Language\", by Adobe Systems\nIncorporated, ISBN # 0-201-10179-3, co. 1985).\n\nSo, given a line L and a polygon P, we can write a PostScript program that\ndraws the line L and the polygon P, and then \"outputs\" the answer. By\n\"output\", we mean the program executes a command called \"showpage\", which\nactually prints a page of paper containing the line and the polygon. A quick\nexamination of the paper provides an answer to the reduced problem Q, and thus\nthe original problem.\n\nThere are two small problems with this approach. \n\n\t(1) There is an infinite number of ways to encode L and P into the\n\treduced problem Q. So, we will be forced to invoke the Axiom of\n\tChoice (or equivalently, Zorn's Lemma). But the use of the Axiom of\n\tChoice is not regarded in a very serious light these days.\n\n\t(2) More importantly, the question arises as to whether or not the\n\tPostScript program Q will actually output a piece of paper; or in\n\tother words, will it halt?\n\n\tNow, PostScript is expressive enough to encode everything that a\n\tTuring Machine might do; thus the halting problem (for PostScript) is\n\tundecidable. It is quite possible that the original problem will turn\n\tout to be undecidable.\n\n\nI won't even begin to go into other difficulties, such as aliasing, finite\nprecision and running out of ink, paper or both.\n\nA couple of references might be:\n\n1. Principia Mathematica. Newton, I. Cambridge University Press, Cambridge,\n England. (Sorry, I don't have an ISBN# for this).\n\n2. An Introduction to Automata Theory, Languages, and Computation. Hopcroft, J\n and Ulman, J.\n\n3. The C Programming Language. Kernighan, B and Ritchie, D.\n\n4. A Tale of Two Cities. Dickens, C.\n\n--------\n\nFrom: td@alice.UUCP (Tom Duff)\nSummary: Overkill.\nOrganization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill NJ\n\nThe situation is not nearly as bleak as Baraff suggests (he should know\nbetter, he's hung around The Labs for long enough). By the well known\nDobbin-Dullman reduction (see J. Dullman & D. Dobbin, J. Comp. Obfusc.\n37,ii: pp. 33-947, lemma 17(a)) line-polygon intersection can be reduced to\nHamiltonian Circuit, without(!) the use of Grobner bases, so LPI (to coin an\nacronym) is probably only NP-complete. Besides, Turing-completeness will no\nlonger be a problem once our Cray-3 is delivered, since it will be able to\ncomplete an infinite loop in 4 milliseconds (with scatter-gather.)\n\n--------\n\nFrom: deb@svax.cs.cornell.edu (David Baraff)\n\nWell, sure its no worse than NP-complete, but that's ONLY if you restrict\nyourself to the case where the line satisfies a Lipschitz condition on its\nsecond derivative. (I think there's an '89 SIGGRAPH paper from Caltech that\ndeals with this).\n\n--", "How can one tell which prong of your basic chip is number 20? I realize there\nis a chunk of the chip missing so that one can orient it correctly. So \nusing that hole as a guide, how can I count the prongs of the chip to find\n#20? Please help.", "Hi all, \n\nI have a IIsi with a floppy drive that might be bad (and might just be out\nof alignment, I haven't checked yet. :-)) If the drive is not easily\nreparable, I'd like to replace it with an _internal_ floptical. Can this\nbe easily done? Can it be done at all? \n\nI'm assuming that floptical drives can read and write both 800k and 1.4k\nfloppies. If this is not in fact true, please tell me.", "To get hierarchical icon groups in MS-Windows use Norton Desktop for Windows.\n\nMS Windows in not mature. It's lousy. But its supposed to be lousy. It's\ngoal is to be ubiquitous not good. MS-Windows is the\ncourse for the masses in IT Infrastructure 102. (DOS = 102, CP/M = 101.)\n\nUnix was the course for the cogniscenti in IT Infrastructure 101. Together\nthey prove that there is good effect of good IT, and there is good effect\nof ubiquitous IT. What we need, now is both at a significiantly higher\nlevel of function. POSIX + DCE + CORBA + ????? ? See the problem?\n\nNT may be IT Infrastructure 103, but it will also be IT Monopoly 102. (101\nwas IBM.)\n\nWe have a conundrum, gentlepeople. What are we going to do about it?\n\ndubious-\n\nlee\n-- ", "I have a question about the autocheck-boxes in Windows.\nIs it a possibility to let the boxes have several different colors at the\nsame time?\n\nFrode Kvam :-)\n\n--\n_______________________________________________________________________________\n _/_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/_/_/\n _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/\n _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/\n _/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/\n _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/\n _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/\n _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/_/_/ (C)\n_______________________________________________________________________________\n Name: Frode Kvam\n Univ: University of Trondheim, dept of informatics\n E-mail: frode@ifi.unit.no\n Snail-mail: Lademoens Kirkealle 8\n 7042 TRONDHEIM\n Voice: + 47 7 50 45 06\n_______________________________________________________________________________", "\nA map of Italy showing the states/provinces(?) is in the FreeHand\n3.1 for Windows clip art collection. Corel Draw 3.0 clip art has\nan outline map of Italy.\n\n\n\n", "The subject says what I would like to do, here are the details:\n\nI have a 512ke with the MacRescue upgrade board that makes it the\nequivalent of a Plus (System 7 and MacEnvy both identify it as such).\n\nThe MacRescue board clips onto the 68000 on the MB. It also has\na 68000 itself. Periodically I have to remove the clip (not an\nentirely easy thing to do) and clean the \"legs\" of the 68000.\nLarry Pina's book asserts that this is occasionally a problem with\nsnap on upgrades: the 68000's \"legs\" will oxidize, causing \nunusual system errors.\n\nWell, that's me.\n\nSo, I would like to do something permanent, and I think it would be\nfairly easy to put a socket in where the 68000 currently is, and\nmodify the MacRescue board to plug in. What I'm not 100% sure of\nis whether it will work. It seems to me that the two 68000s aren't\nacting independently; so removing one shouldn't have any effect on\nthe performance of my Mac. I'm about 97% sure.\n\nWill someone provide the extra 3%?", ": Thanks to all those people who recommended Workspace managers for\n: Windows 3.1. I found 3 shareware Workspace Managers, from Australia's\n: MS-WINDOWS archive (monu6.cc.monash.edu.au), which mirrors some\n: sites in the U.S. The three I found were:\n: \n: 1. WORKSPACES 1.10 (wspace.zip)\n[ review deleted ]\n: 2. WORKSHIFT 1.6 (wrksft16.zip)\n[ review deleted ]\n: 3. BIGDESK 2.30 and BACKMENU (backdesk.zip)\n[ review deleted ]\n\nI really appreciate this information. However, given that I don't have\ndirect Internet access - which means I don't have Archie access - I must\nresort to using FTPMAIL. This means that I need the site name and the \ndirectory where these workspace managers are located.\n\nSo, can you (or anyone else) post or Email me the needed information?\n\nThanks very much!!!\n\nChris\n-- ", "I am trying to run xwd on a Sun SPARCstation IPX\nwith SunOS 4.1.2 and Openwindows 3.0. I am using\nthe Motif window manager. I have been unsuccessful\nin using xwd under Motif. I get the following when\ndoing xwd -out xwd.dmp\n\nX Error of failed request: BadDrawable (invalid Pixmap or Window parameter)\n Major opcode of failed request: 73 (X_GetImage)\n Resource id in failed request: 0x500043\n Serial number of failed request: 213\n Current serial number in output stream: 213", "Someone mentioned a while ago that the Duos were scheduled for a \n10-18% price reduction, according to 'newsbytes'. Is this definite?\nDoes anyone know when it will take effect? And what is 'newsbytes'?\nThanks.\n", "I'm using an OAK based VGA card on my computer (640x480x256). I've\ndownloaded the driver from ftp.cica.indiana.edu and I've had good luck\nwith it. However, does anyone know if a faster driver is available for\nthis card?\n\nThanks,\n\nMike", "\nhave you tried printing the data file (TIFF) from another application such \nas freehand or PageMaker? I have found that Photoshop has occasional \nproblems printing files that I can print through other applications.\n\n-GReg", "I purchased 2x8 MB 72-pin (60 ns) SIMMs for my Quadra 800 from Chip\nMerchant (I've been very satisfied with them in the past). Either one\nalone works, but both together fail. I called Apple for advice and was\ntold that there was a problem with \"Composite\" SIMMs. Only non-composite\nSIMMs should be used with the Q-800. Chip Merchant confirmed that they\npresently sell only composite 72-pin SIMMs. So, Q-800 SIMMs need to be\nboth 60 ns and non-composite.\n\nMarty Sachs\n----------------------------------------------------------------\nUSDA/ARS & Agronomy/UIUC msachs@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu [internet]\nS108 Turner Hall msachs@UIUCVMD [bitnet] \n1102 S. Goodwin Ave. (217) 244-0864 [phone]\nUrbana, IL 61801 (217) 333-6064 [FAX]", "\nIt's supposedly a high-performance chip based upon workstation graphics\naccelerators. It's quite fast (I have 7), but as usual with new boards/chips\nthe drivers are buggy for Windows. As far as Winmarks go, it depends upon\nthe version. I think I got 42M winmarks with version 3.11. 2.5 yielded the\n50+ number. I've also benchmarked this with Wintach at over 65 (from memory\nas well).\n\nAs far as the low-level stuff goes, it looks pretty nice. It's got this\nquadrilateral fill command that requires just the four points.\n\nIt's very fast, but beware of buggy drivers, and otherwise no non-windows\nsupport.\n", "I would like to prevent our Windows users from using\nctl-alt-del from within windows. I know there must be\na way to do it.\nCould anyone point me in the right direction?\nThanks in advance,\nMike Glynn\nmike.glynn@business.gatech.edu", "I am looking at buying some Companion brand VLB/ISA/EISA motherboards with\nHINT chipsets. Has anybody had any experience with this board (good or bad)?\nAny information would be helpful!\n\nthanks\n", "CDs ($9 ea inc shipping)\n---\nJesus Jones, DOUBT\nResidents, HEAVEN?\nREM, DOCUMENT\nNymphs, SAD AND DAMNED single\n\nTapes\n-----\nRobert Plant, all solo stuff\nLed Zeppelin IV\n\nTshirts\n-------\nRobert Plant, Manic Nirvana tour\nLed Zeppelin, Symbols/Swansong black\nBob Dylan, 1990 tour tie-dye", "Charles Boesel writes\n(sci.image.processing,comp.graphics), wdm@world.std.com (Wayne Michael) \n\nIllustrator for SGI is a shipping product. Adobe and SGI have announced that \nPhotoshop is being ported to SGI machines. A simillar announcement has been \nmade by Adobe and Sun for Sun platforms. No dates have been announced to the \nbest of my knowledge.", "\n\nHere in the UK, the bandwidth restriction apparently only apply to \nlocal lines.. ie those used by the average domestic client. Private\nlines which are run from the local exchange to the leasing client are \nusually capable of a higher bandwidth if the exchange is digital.\n\nDon't quote me on that..... But I think I remember a BT engineer \nsaying something to that effect when I was doing some work\nshadowing a few years ago.\n\nByeeeee !\n\n\nChris ;-)\n\n +====================================================================+\n |Name : Mr Chris Smith | Twang on that 'ole guitar ! |\n |Addrs: scst83@uk.ac.liv.csc | |\n |Uni : Liverpool University |Quest: To build more and more hardware |\n |Dgree: Computer Science | |\n +====================================================================+\n\n \"What ever the sun may be, it is certainly not a ball of flaming gas!\"\n -- D.H. Lawrence.", "For sale:\n\nMac IIfx with the following config -->\n\n20MB's RAM\n400MB 3.5\" Hard Drive\n2 -1.44MB floppy drives\nExtended keyboard\nMouse\nApple 8bit video card\n\n$2,500.00 or best offer!\n\nAll you need is a monitor to complete this system.", "!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-!-*-!-*-!-!-*-!-*!\n\n\tTwin Size - Mattress, Box Spring and Frame for SALE.\n\n\t** Medico-Pedic [type of mattress?]\n\t** Excellent condition\n ** 2 yrs old\n\t** Well maintained\n\t\n\t-- You come and pick it up, stuff is located in PaloAlto\n\n\tAsking for: $75\n\n\n\tContact:\n\n\t\tSuresh\n\t\t(415)-617-3522 [W]\n\t\t(415)-324-9553 [H]\n\t\tE-Mail: suresh@pa.dec.com\n\n\n!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-!-*-!-*-!-!-*-!-*!", "\n\n Many thanks for the replies I received to this. A couple of people\nsuggested how I could get the paint package to work properly, but in the\nend I took the advice of someone else to try Paintshop Pro from\ncica.indiana.edu.\n\n Thanks again.\n\n--Philip\n", "\n\n\nIt sorta depends on what you drive. I remember running a two channel \nMotorola with a vibrator power supply and about 40 tubes in a 1958 \nVolkwagen. The poor little 6 V generator had a heck of a time, and if you \nkeyed the mic at night, you needed to be stationary, because your lights \ngot AWFUL DIM. Isn't progress wonderful?\n", "I searched the U Mich archives fairly thoroughly for 3D graphics packages,\nI always thought it to be a mirror of sumex-aim.stanford.edu... I was wrong.\nI'll look into GrafSys... it does sound interesting!\n\nThanks Cheinan.", "STOP! STOP! STOP! STOP! This argument is getting silly! XV-3.00 now handles\n24-bit images without quantizing them. All these arguments are moot, null, \nand void. Please stop quibbling about a now obsolete version of the program.\n\nBesides, you can now generate tons of verbiage about the new shareware\nlicensing it uses instead ...\n\nMike", "\n Hello, I know that this has been discussed before. But at the time\nI didn't need to teselate a sphere. So if any kind soul has the code\nor the alg, that was finally decided upon as the best (as I recall it\nwas a nice, iterative subdivision meathod), I would be very \nappreciative.\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tThomas DeWeese\ndeweeset@rdrc.rpi.edu\n", "Is it possible, ie via creative cable splicing or whatever, to\nhook a Syquest 44MB removable drive to a Mac?\n\nIs there any difference with the guts of the drive or is it\njust cable differences?\n\nThanks.\n\nRob", "\n\nMixers have a wide variety of implementations; the Mini-Circuits\npart you mention is a doubly-balanced diode mixer, but active ones\n(BJT, FET) seem more popular in consumer receivers. You might\ncall MCL; they have a nice catalog.\n\nThe universal answer for wide-coverage, theory+practice, RF design\nis the _ARRL Handbook_, published by the American Radio Relay\nLeague, the radio amateur organization. Any technical bookstore\ncan order you one. The book is superb, with lots of accessible\ntheory, construction projects, and generally interesting stuff.\n\nYou might also check out _Solid State Design for the Radio Amateur_\n(I think), by Hayward and . This has sharper design\nand test information about subsystems like mixers.", "Add me to the list of bugged 230 owners.\n\nI had a bunch of problems regarding sleep/wakeup/restart with the 230 when\nI first got it, both with and without the techworks ram. Finally it \"died\",\nwouldn't start, until I opened the docking door (which snaps open) and \nthe machine came up fine, but with the clock a few decades off. Apple \nreplaced the processor board.\n\nNow,\n twice the machine has frozen (no mouse action)\n twice the machine has refused to wake up. Acutally, the backlighting\n came on, and the disk spins when the power adaptor is plugged in\n (but not with a good battery).\n The first time this happened removing both power adaptor and battery\n for ~1 minute brought the machine back.\n The second time this happened the machine wouldn't wake up until\n powered down for about 30 minutes. The screen had what looked\n like red horizontal lines accross it.\n Both timse the file \"fax modem preferences\" has been corrupted\n according to disinfectent).\n\nI have removed all the fax and modem software, and the third party memory,\nand am waiting to see if it happens again.\n\nforrest\n\n", "I posted this once but didn't receive any responses.\n\nI've been looking for a good notebook for about $1700. My two\nfavorites are the Zeos Freestyle/SL and the Micro something or\nother Winbook (the one with the Apple Powerbook style trackball\nand handrest and the 486SLC).\n\nAny suggestions on others? I'd love to hear from someone who has\none of the two mentioned above, too.", "Hi,\n I have a friend who is working on 2-d and 3-d object recognition. He is looking\nfor references describing algorithms on the following subject areas:\n\nThresholding\nEdge Segmentation\nMarr-Hildreth\nSobel Operator\nChain Codes\nThinning - Skeletonising\n\nIf anybody is willing to post an algorithm that they have implemented which demonstrates\nany of the above topics, it would be much appreciated.\n\nPlease post all replies to my e-mail address. If requested I will post a summary to the\nnewsgroup in a couple of weeks.\n\n\nThanks in advance for all replies", ": Most, if not all, credit card companies offer to double the warranty up\n: to one year, namely, if you make a purchase by a credit card, you get\n: additional warranty up to one year. Does it apply to the purchase of\n: computers? I wonder if anyone out there has used it. Is there any catch?\n: Thanks in advance.\n\nI am just about to post the results of my big computer purchase. One\nof the key points was the ability to use my American Express card. I \nread the fine print between double warranty policies of Amex and Citibank\nVISA. Sure, both will allow you double warranty on computers, but Citibank\nhas a maximum claim of $250.00. Could you imagine trying to get your\nmonitor or mother board fixed for $250.00? Amex has NO limit on claims.\n\nRemember, if you use Amex, you must either send a copy of the warranty info\nto them in 30 days from purchase, or you must call them to pre-register and\nthen send them the paperwork within 90 days of purchase (my pre-register\npak arrived today). Citibank VISA requires no pre-registration.", "\nI agree completely, but there was only a refund for people who bought the GC\nwith a Quadra. I have seen an alpha version of an extension from Apple called\n8.24 GC QuickTime Video which offloads QuickTime compression/decompression\nfrom the cpu to the AM29000 on the card. So it seems it can be done even though\nin a developer article it states that the GC can't be programmed - but they\nasked that any suggestions be sent in anyway...", "I was recently loaned an older Dec 210 286 at work, and I have the option\nof adding an additional Western Digital Hard-drive to the machine. The\nexisting drive is currently a Western Digital as well, and is working fine,\nbut I do not have any documentation available for configuring the master/slave\nrelationship necessary for a c: d: drive setup.\n\nThe first drive is currently formatted to Tandy Dos v3.3 but I am eventually\ngoing to upgrade both to MS Dos v 5.0\n\nThe drives themselves are both model number WD95044-A circa 5-07-1991\nThey are 782 cyl 4 head drives. A note to add is that there is no exact\nconfiguration for these in my current bios, but it seems to work at a\nsetting 17 (977 cyl 5 head, 300 write_pre, 977 landing zone).\nThere are three pairs of jumper pins on the back that I presume are\nfor setting up the master/slave. Originally, the drive in the machine\nhad none. Currently, I was suggested to try the far right (looking at the\nback) for master and the middle jumper for the slave.\n\nWhen booted, the reinitialize seems to puke accessing the d: drive. It does\nflicker about three times on the second drive, but then gives the error. \nHopefully the problem is as simple as the drive not being formatted, but not\nbeing a person who has ever had to actual format and unformatted drive, I\nwould not even know how to do that.\n\nAny and all help on this is great fully appreciated. If not, a number\nfor Western Digital might just do as good!\n\nswood\n", "I'm trying to set up an IPX for another group. I copied all the\nX stuff that I compiled on my 4/280 (which runs SunOS 4.1.1) using\ngcc 2.1, and most things run just fine. however, I did find a\ncouple of bugs, and when I try to recompile those clients on the IPX\n(which runs 4.1.3), I get\n\nld: Undefined symbol\n _XShapeQueryExtension\n _XShapeCombineMask\n\nI know that I can include libXext and get rid of those messages,\nbut I can't figure out why I get them on the IPX and not on the\n4/280. any ideas?\n", " >> \n >> Environment:\n >> mach/arch : sparc/sun4 (IPX)\n >> OS\t: SunOS 4.1.3\n >> X11\t: X11R5 (patchlevel 22)\n >> Motif\t: 1.2.2\n >> \n >> I bring up X server using 'startx' and /usr/bin/X11/Xsun. The following sequence\n >> of actions crashes the X server (SIGPIPE, errno=32, 'xinit' reports that connexion \n >> to X server lost):\n >\n >I had this problem as well - It had to do with the CG6 graphics card that\n >comes with the IPX. What fixed the problem for me was to apply the \"sunGX.uu\"\n >that was part of Patch #7. Patch #1 also used this file so perhaps you\n >didn't apply the one that came with Patch #7.\n >\n >jeff\n >-\n >Jeff W. Boote *********************************\n >Scientific Computing Division * There is nothing good or bad *\n >National Center for Atmospheric Research * but thinking makes it so. *\n >Boulder * Hamlet *\n > *********************************\n\nThanx, Jeff. You're a lifesaver. I imported the new sun GX emulator that came in\nwith patch #7. The problem has since disappeared.\n\nThanx to der (schoene) Mouse for his help too.\n", "\n\n\tI have an extra copy of Lotus 1-2-3 ver 3.4 for DOS. I'd like to get $100 for it. please reply by e-mail to jth@bach.udel.edu\nThanks,\nJay\n\n", "[Stuff about the connection between IDE and IDA deleated]\nIf IDE speed come from IDA WHERE does the 8.3MB/s sighted for IDE come from?\n\nSCSI is not complex. It is just the way the industry uses and talks about it.\nThere are THREE key differences in SCSI; the controller chip, the port, and\nthe software. THAT IS IT.\nLet us look as SCSi in from THIS stand point.\n\nSCSI-1: asynchronous and synchronous modes {SOFTWARE SCSI DRIVER ONLY}\n asynchronous is slower then synchronous mode {only 0-3MB/s vs. 0-5MB/s}\n synchronous speeds can be reached by most SCSi-1 divices with a\n rewrite of the software driver {As is the case for the Mac Quadra.}\n\nSCSI-2 {8-bit}: THIS is the main source for the confusion. This differs from\n SCSI-1 ONLY in the controler chip in most machines. In the Mac and some PCs\n this is called 'fast SCSI-1' because it uses SCSI-1 ports and software drivers\n AND can produce SCSI-2 SPEEDS through SCSI-1 INSPITE of this even in the \n slower asynchronous mode. Average speed in asynchronous SCSi-1 mode \n 4-6MB/s with 8MB/s{See in both Quadras and higher end PCs} Synchronous\n mode just allows a higher burst rate {10/MB/s}\n\nSCSI-2 {16-bit}: TWO versions-Wide/Fast. Wide SCSI-2 requires TWO things\n over 8-bit SCSI-2: a SCSI-2 software driver and a wide SCSI port on the\n machine and the external device.\n Fast SCSI-2 also requires TWO things over 8-bit SCSI-2: SCSI-2 driver\n software and that the RECIEVING devise support 16-bit fast SCSI-2.\n Speed of both is the same: 8-12MB/s with 20MB/s burst.\n\nSCSI-2 {32-bit}: Also know as Wide AND Fast SCSI. Over 8-bit SCSI-2 this\n requires: SCSI-2 driver software, wide SCSI-2 port, and that the RECIEVING\n devices ALSO have a 32-bit mode SCSI-2 chip. As expected this is VERY\n expencive. Speed: 15-20MB/s with 40MB/s bursts\n ", "\n\tThis is not a good idea.. I upgraded my motherboard last fall. I\nwould have been quite pissed at any software that would have forced me to\nreinstall simply because I changed motherboards.\n\n\tAny info in the BIOS is too volatile to use as a checksum. Are you\ngoing to require that a user re-install all their software if they add 4Mb\nof RAM to their computer? I did that a couple of weeks ago. It's in the\nBIOS, and if software had told me \"this isn't the machine you installed me\non\" I would never have used that software again. Really bad idea.\n\n\n\tThis is silly. It's much easier to loan disks to a friend and let\nthem do an install than to backup your copy already on disk, and then give\nthem that. Your scheme isn't going to stop anyone.\n\n\n\tDo you know any assembly language at all? All anyone needs to do if\nfind the part of the code that does the quiz, and insert a JMP instruction\nto just completely skip it. Not that difficult, really! And there is very\nlittle that commpanies can do to stop this type of thing. Using PKLITE or\nsome similar utility would help, but only if the resulting compressed .EXE\nwere tagged as uncompressable.\n\n\n\tThis is by far the best idea you presented in your post. Making it\nplainly obvious who registered is going to stop casual pirates. But, the\ndetermined ones are just going to answer \"Joe Blow\" to the question of\n\"what's your name\" so this won't stop them in the long run.\n\n\tPirates are always going to win this fight. They simply have more\ntime to work on the software and figure out the protection scheme.\n\n--\nSteve Madsen\nsjmadsen@nextsrv.cas.muohio.edu", "Hi,\n\nThe subject line says it all. My system acts weird at times. All of a\nsudden the system will be corrupt, boot blocks will get chewed, etc.\n\nThis was a really big problem for a while. I couldn't even format my\ndrive properly. I installed HDT's driver and things got better. Now\nall I have to do is reinstall the system. Could an incompatibility \nexist between it and a Quantum external drive.\n\nI'm looking for a pure hardware solution. It's not a virus, bad\nsoftware, etc. Could I have a bad SCSI cable? Or is the IBM (WDS-80)\njust a screwey drive?\n\nThanks,\n\nChuck\n\n-- \nChuck Williams ==> CS Intern ==> Pacific Northwest Laboratories", "\n\nI've just had the good fortune to be hired by Electronic Arts as Senior\nComputer Graphics Artist at the Vancouver, Canada office. :^)\n\nThe timing has a lot to do with the 3DO which EA is putting a lot of resources\ninto. I do not know of any titles to be developed as yet but will be happy to\npost as things develop. I start there May 3.", "\n\n\n\n\nOne of the monitors I reviewed for the June issue of Windows Magazine was\nthe Mitsubishi. I also reviewed a new Nanao, the F550iW, which has just\nbeen released. Last year for the May '92 issue of Windows, I reviewed\nseveral monitors, including the Nanao T560i. There's no question that the\nNanao monitors are the best available this year, just as they were last\nyear. The difference between my ranking of the best in Windows and the\nranking in Windows Sources is due mainly to a difference in the testing\ncriteria and the scoring. I used different tests than they did, and I\nscored differently. There's nothing wrong with the Mitsubishi, and it\nscored very highly in my tests, but it was a few points shy of perfect.\n\nIncidentally, one of the things everyone should do when they're reading\nreviews of any product, whether it's monitors or mice, is to read the\ncriteria and methodology carefully. Unless you know how the product\ntesting was done, and on what the scores are based, you can't possibly\nknow what they really mean. Just seeing that I rank a monitor differently\nfrom Windows Sources is meaningless without knowing how we did the\nranking. Likewise, it's impossible to tell whether a monitor will meet\nyour needs unless you know how we did the testing. After all, some of\nwhat we do may not apply to you. Likewise, some of what we do may apply\nmore closely in one review than in another. You can't always tell\nanything from reading the 300 or so words of commentary we write if you\ndon't also understand the scoring.", "\n\n This is something I asked before, but I don't think I got an answer, or\nmaybe I lost the answer, or maybe it's just an obvious question (:->). Will \nthe GX stuff (on-line docs etc.) be available on the DEVELOP CDs, or will it \nonly go out to people in the Developer's program and such? Just curious.", "Has anyone had any problems with their Duo Dock not ejecting the Duo\nproperly?\n\nWhen I first got it, the Duo would come out of the Dock a couple of inches\nwhen ejected, and I had to pull it the rest of the way. Nowadays (and I've\nhad the system for 4 months), the Duo doesn't come out *at* *all* - despite\nthe fact that the mechanism makes all the appropriate noises, and I have to\ngrab hold of it and pull it out myself. Is there a simple fix for this, or\ndo I have to return it to my Apple Dealer, where it will languish for weeks\nwhile I have to make do with no colour display, no VRAM, no floppy or\nSCSI etc. \n\n(BTW, it's not that the Duo is locked into the Dock - it just doesn't\nwant to slide out any more).\n\n", "\nPC Magazine, January 12, 1993 had a review of several personal finance\nmanagement programe, as did PC-Computing, January 1993. PC World,\nDecember 1992 also had articles about Quicken and Managing Your Money.\nI can email you copies of these articles if you can't find them at your\nlibrary.\n\nI've been using Managing Your Money for several years, and I have\nseveral friends who use Quicken, though I've not used it myself. My\noverall impression is that Quicken is a financial accounts manager\nwhile Managing Your Money will help you more completely manage your\nfinances.\n\nHere are some features that I believe Managing Your Money and Quicken share:\n\n\tThe ability to keep records for each of your financial accounts:\n\tchecking, savings, charge, cash, or brokerage. You can reconcile\n\tyour account statements with the records the program keeps.\n\n\tThe ability to make a budget and track your spending against that\n\tbudget.\n\n\tA Checkfree module which will allow you to use the Checkfree bill\n\tpaying service to pay your bills via your modem.\n\t\n\tThe ability to print checks on your printer.\n\n\tThe ability to keep loan records and set up automatic loan payments.\n\n\tThe ability to import stock quotations to keep your brokerage accounts\n\tup to date. I know Managing Your Money can do this automatically\n\tvia modem. Quicken probably can as well, but I'm not sure about it.\n\n\tThe ability to export tax information to popular tax preparation\n\tprograms.\n\n\nHere are some features that I believe Managing Your Money has that\nQuicken does not:\n\n\tA tax prediction module. This looks at your accounts and budget to\n\tpredict your tax liability for the coming year. It's usefull to fine\n\ttune your withholding so Uncle Sam doesn't get his due too early.\n\n\tAn insurance and vital records module. This is a place to keep\n\trecords of your insurance policies as well as other vital records.\n\tIt can also compute your life expectancy.\n\n\tA financial analysis module. This computes compound interest, \n\teffects of inflation, loan payments term or interest, yield to\n\tmaturity for bonds, savings account yields, days between dates, and\n\tloan amortization schedules. It also has functions to help you \n\tdecide whether to refinance your mortgage, whether you can afford\n\ta particular home, whether a particular rental property is a good\n\tinvestment, whether you should buy lease or rent, and whether\n\ta particular investment's cash flow is adequate for your situation.\n\tThis module can also help you plan for retirement and for helping\n\tyour kids with their tuition. \n\n\tA net worth module. This is a place to record all your assets\n\tand liabilities. Your net worth can be computed from this \n\tinformation. Any assets or liabilities recorded in other modules\n\tare automatically included here.\n\n\tA \"desk\" module. This includes a small word processor, a card file\n\tyou can use to store names, addresses, phone numbers and other vital\n\tinformation about friends and associates, a perpetual calander, a\n\trudimentary calculator, a to-do list, a reminder list, an appointment\n\tlist, and a place to record your phone calls (for those who need to\n\ttrack such things). Your appointments, reminders and to-do list\n\tcan be made to display automatically when you start the program.\n\nThere are probably some things listed above that Quicken has, but I'm almost\nsure that Quicken doesn't do everything I've listed. If I'm wrong, I'm sure\nhordes of Quicken devotees will flame me to a crisp.\n\nOne thing that Quicken has that Managing Your Money does not yet have is a \nWindows version. MECA software is rumored to be working on a Windows version\nof Managing Your Money for release late this year.", "I want to compile Xdvi and later perhaps Emacs 19 on a DEC Ultrix machine with\nX installed. Unfortunately, Xt and Xaw libs and headers are missing. How can I\nget them without having to compile the whole MIT distribution ? \n\nPleasy reply by email to: viola@yukawa.uni-muenster.de", "I am using the GLX widget + athena widgets on a mixed-model\napplication, under 4Dwm, but when the dialog gets popped up, its\ntext entry field does not have focus. Aimilar code works perfectly if\nI use \"pure X\" (no mixed-model). HEre is the relevant portion of\nthe code.\n\n{\n int n;\n Arg wargs[16];\n Widget Button, PopUpShell, Dialog;\n\n /* initialize TopLevel here */\n .\n .\n .\n\n n = 0;\n XtSetArg(wargs[n], XtNlabel, \"Foo\"); n++;\n Button = XtCreateManagedWidget(\"FooBtn\", commandWidgetClass,\n TopLevel, wargs, n);\n\n PopUpShell = XtCreatePopupShell(\"PupShell\", overrideShellWidgetClass,\n Button, NULL, 0);\n XtAddCallback(PopUpShell, XtNcallback, MyPopUp, (XtPointer)PopUpShell);\n\n n = 0;\n XtSetArg(wargs[n], XtNvalue, \"\"); n++;\n Dialog = XtCreateManagedWidget(\"TheDialog\", dialogWidgetClass,\n PopUpShell, wargs, n);\n\n .\n .\n .\n}\n\nvoid MyPopUp(w, popup_shell, call_data)\nWidget w;\nWidget popup_shell;\nXtPointer call_data;\n{\n XtPopup(popup_shell, XtGrabExclusive);\n}\n\n---\n\nA way I found to give focus to the text field is to move the\napplication window around a little bit and place it right behind the popup.", "I have a 5 1/4\" drive as drive A. How can I make the system boot from\nmy 3 1/2\" B drive? (Optimally, the computer would be able to boot\nfrom either A or B, checking them in order for a bootable disk. But\nif I have to switch cables around and simply switch the drives so that\nit can't boot 5 1/4\" disks, that's OK. Also, boot_b won't do the trick\nfor me.)\n\nThanks,\n Davebo\n", "\nI have the same question for any tools for the 6502 derivative processor\nthe 65C816 processor (designed by Western Design Center).\n\nThanks,\nOscar.\n<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>\n Oscar R. Mitchell\n IBM Advanced Workstations and Systems Division\n RISC System/6000(tm) - Future Systems Hardware Architecture and Design Group\n Mail Stop: ZIP 9461\n 11400 Burnet Road\n Austin, Texas 78758 USA Phone: (512)823-0000\n IBM Tieline: 678-8513 USA \"FAX\": (512)838-8561\n\n IBM VNet: OSCAR at AUSVM6\n IBM InterNet: oscar@oscar.austin.ibm.com\n\n USA InterNet: oscar@austin.ibm.com\n\n#include /* I DO NOT speak for IBM, only for MYSELF */\n<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>", "Hello,\n\nI have a problem with X11R5 on a Sun386i an I hope that someone can help\nme with it.\nI've built X from the MIT sources after applying all patches I have got (I\nthink 23). Building was easy. After installing everything I started X but\nnothing happened but the screen and the keyboard freezed, the machine seemed\nto hang. I loged in from another machine an found the Sun386i running well.\n'ps' told me that there's a X-server and a xterm running. And with some \nexperimenting with the mouse and repeatedly pressing ^D I blindly hit the\nxterm, endet the session and got my prompt back.\nI guess it's a device problem but I did not find the correct device yet.\nI've got a Sun386i with a b/w framebuffer (ACE-6 0688 94V-0, Rev 53)\nSunOS 4.0.2 and ROM 4.4.\nPlease help me. I'm able to run clients on the Sun and send the output to\nother machines but that's not what I did it for.", "\n \n\nHmmm. Care to be more vague?\n", "Archive-name: jpeg-faq\nLast-modified: 18 April 1993\n\nThis FAQ article discusses JPEG image compression. Suggestions for\nadditions and clarifications are welcome.\n\nNew since version of 3 April 1993:\n * New versions of Image Archiver and PMJPEG for OS/2.\n\n\nThis article includes the following sections:\n\n[1] What is JPEG?\n[2] Why use JPEG?\n[3] When should I use JPEG, and when should I stick with GIF?\n[4] How well does JPEG compress images?\n[5] What are good \"quality\" settings for JPEG?\n[6] Where can I get JPEG software?\n [6A] \"canned\" software, viewers, etc.\n [6B] source code\n[7] What's all this hoopla about color quantization?\n[8] How does JPEG work?\n[9] What about lossless JPEG?\n[10] Why all the argument about file formats?\n[11] How do I recognize which file format I have, and what do I do about it?\n[12] What about arithmetic coding?\n[13] Does loss accumulate with repeated compression/decompression?\n[14] What are some rules of thumb for converting GIF images to JPEG?\n\nSections 1-6 are basic info that every JPEG user needs to know;\nsections 7-14 are advanced info for the curious.\n\nThis article is posted every 2 weeks. You can always find the latest version\nin the news.answers archive at rtfm.mit.edu (18.172.1.27). By FTP, fetch\n/pub/usenet/news.answers/jpeg-faq; or if you don't have FTP, send e-mail to\nmail-server@rtfm.mit.edu with body \"send usenet/news.answers/jpeg-faq\".\nMany other FAQ articles are also stored in this archive. For more\ninstructions on use of the archive, send e-mail to the same address with the\nwords \"help\" and \"index\" (no quotes) on separate lines. If you don't get a\nreply, the server may be misreading your return address; add a line such as\n\"path myname@mysite\" to specify your correct e-mail address to reply to.\n\n\n----------\n\n\n[1] What is JPEG?\n\nJPEG (pronounced \"jay-peg\") is a standardized image compression mechanism.\nJPEG stands for Joint Photographic Experts Group, the original name of the\ncommittee that wrote the standard. JPEG is designed for compressing either\nfull-color or gray-scale digital images of \"natural\", real-world scenes.\nIt does not work so well on non-realistic images, such as cartoons or line\ndrawings.\n\nJPEG does not handle black-and-white (1-bit-per-pixel) images, nor does it\nhandle motion picture compression. Standards for compressing those types\nof images are being worked on by other committees, named JBIG and MPEG\nrespectively.\n\nJPEG is \"lossy\", meaning that the image you get out of decompression isn't\nquite identical to what you originally put in. The algorithm achieves much\nof its compression by exploiting known limitations of the human eye, notably\nthe fact that small color details aren't perceived as well as small details\nof light-and-dark. Thus, JPEG is intended for compressing images that will\nbe looked at by humans. If you plan to machine-analyze your images, the\nsmall errors introduced by JPEG may be a problem for you, even if they are\ninvisible to the eye.\n\nA useful property of JPEG is that the degree of lossiness can be varied by\nadjusting compression parameters. This means that the image maker can trade\noff file size against output image quality. You can make *extremely* small\nfiles if you don't mind poor quality; this is useful for indexing image\narchives, making thumbnail views or icons, etc. etc. Conversely, if you\naren't happy with the output quality at the default compression setting, you\ncan jack up the quality until you are satisfied, and accept lesser compression.\n\n\n[2] Why use JPEG?\n\nThere are two good reasons: to make your image files smaller, and to store\n24-bit-per-pixel color data instead of 8-bit-per-pixel data.\n\nMaking image files smaller is a big win for transmitting files across\nnetworks and for archiving libraries of images. Being able to compress a\n2 Mbyte full-color file down to 100 Kbytes or so makes a big difference in\ndisk space and transmission time! (If you are comparing GIF and JPEG, the\nsize ratio is more like four to one. More details below.)\n\nIf your viewing software doesn't support JPEG directly, you'll have to\nconvert JPEG to some other format for viewing or manipulating images. Even\nwith a JPEG-capable viewer, it takes longer to decode and view a JPEG image\nthan to view an image of a simpler format (GIF, for instance). Thus, using\nJPEG is essentially a time/space tradeoff: you give up some time in order to\nstore or transmit an image more cheaply.\n\nIt's worth noting that when network or phone transmission is involved, the\ntime savings from transferring a shorter file can be much greater than the\nextra time to decompress the file. I'll let you do the arithmetic yourself.\n\nThe other reason why JPEG will gradually replace GIF as a standard Usenet\nposting format is that JPEG can store full color information: 24 bits/pixel\n(16 million colors) instead of 8 or less (256 or fewer colors). If you have\nonly 8-bit display hardware then this may not seem like much of an advantage\nto you. Within a couple of years, though, 8-bit GIF will look as obsolete as\nblack-and-white MacPaint format does today. Furthermore, for reasons detailed\nin section 7, JPEG is far more useful than GIF for exchanging images among\npeople with widely varying color display hardware. Hence JPEG is considerably\nmore appropriate than GIF for use as a Usenet posting standard.\n\n\n[3] When should I use JPEG, and when should I stick with GIF?\n\nJPEG is *not* going to displace GIF entirely; for some types of images,\nGIF is superior in image quality, file size, or both. One of the first\nthings to learn about JPEG is which kinds of images to apply it to.\n\nAs a rule of thumb, JPEG is superior to GIF for storing full-color or\ngray-scale images of \"realistic\" scenes; that means scanned photographs and\nsimilar material. JPEG is superior even if you don't have 24-bit display\nhardware, and it is a LOT superior if you do. (See section 7 for details.)\n\nGIF does significantly better on images with only a few distinct colors,\nsuch as cartoons and line drawings. In particular, large areas of pixels\nthat are all *exactly* the same color are compressed very efficiently indeed\nby GIF. JPEG can't squeeze these files as much as GIF does without\nintroducing visible defects. This sort of image is best kept in GIF form.\n(In particular, single-color borders are quite cheap in GIF files, but they\nshould be avoided in JPEG files.)\n\nJPEG also has a hard time with very sharp edges: a row of pure-black pixels\nadjacent to a row of pure-white pixels, for example. Sharp edges tend to\ncome out blurred unless you use a very high quality setting. Again, this\nsort of thing is not found in scanned photographs, but it shows up fairly\noften in GIF files: borders, overlaid text, etc. The blurriness is\nparticularly objectionable with text that's only a few pixels high.\nIf you have a GIF with a lot of small-size overlaid text, don't JPEG it.\n\nComputer-drawn images (ray-traced scenes, for instance) usually fall between\nscanned images and cartoons in terms of complexity. The more complex and\nsubtly rendered the image, the more likely that JPEG will do well on it.\nThe same goes for semi-realistic artwork (fantasy drawings and such).\n\nPlain black-and-white (two level) images should never be converted to JPEG.\nYou need at least about 16 gray levels before JPEG is useful for gray-scale\nimages. It should also be noted that GIF is lossless for gray-scale images\nof up to 256 levels, while JPEG is not.\n\nIf you have an existing library of GIF images, you may wonder whether you\nshould convert them to JPEG. You will lose a little image quality if you do.\n(Section 7, which argues that JPEG image quality is superior to GIF, only\napplies if both formats start from a full-color original. If you start from\na GIF, you've already irretrievably lost a great deal of information; JPEG\ncan only make things worse.) However, the disk space savings may justify\nconverting anyway. This is a decision you'll have to make for yourself.\nIf you do convert a GIF library to JPEG, see section 14 for hints. Be\nprepared to leave some images in GIF format, since some GIFs will not\nconvert well.\n\n\n[4] How well does JPEG compress images?\n\nPretty darn well. Here are some sample file sizes for an image I have\nhandy, a 727x525 full-color image of a ship in a harbor. The first three\nfiles are for comparison purposes; the rest were created with the free JPEG\nsoftware described in section 6B.\n\nFile\t Size in bytes\t\tComments\n\nship.ppm\t1145040 Original file in PPM format (no compression; 24 bits\n\t\t\t or 3 bytes per pixel, plus a few bytes overhead)\nship.ppm.Z\t 963829 PPM file passed through Unix compress\n\t\t\t compress doesn't accomplish a lot, you'll note.\n\t\t\t Other text-oriented compressors give similar results.\nship.gif\t 240438 Converted to GIF with ppmquant -fs 256 | ppmtogif\n\t\t\t Most of the savings is the result of losing color\n\t\t\t info: GIF saves 8 bits/pixel, not 24. (See sec. 7.)\n\nship.jpg95\t 155622 cjpeg -Q 95 (highest useful quality setting)\n\t\t\t This is indistinguishable from the 24-bit original,\n\t\t\t at least to my nonprofessional eyeballs.\nship.jpg75\t 58009 cjpeg -Q 75 (default setting)\n\t\t\t You have to look mighty darn close to distinguish this\n\t\t\t from the original, even with both on-screen at once.\nship.jpg50\t 38406 cjpeg -Q 50\n\t\t\t This has slight defects; if you know what to look\n\t\t\t for, you could tell it's been JPEGed without seeing\n\t\t\t the original. Still as good image quality as many\n\t\t\t recent postings in Usenet pictures groups.\nship.jpg25\t 25192 cjpeg -Q 25\n\t\t\t JPEG's characteristic \"blockiness\" becomes apparent\n\t\t\t at this setting (djpeg -blocksmooth helps some).\n\t\t\t Still, I've seen plenty of Usenet postings that were\n\t\t\t of poorer image quality than this.\nship.jpg5o\t 6587 cjpeg -Q 5 -optimize (-optimize cuts table overhead)\n\t\t\t Blocky, but perfectly satisfactory for preview or\n\t\t\t indexing purposes. Note that this file is TINY:\n\t\t\t the compression ratio from the original is 173:1 !\n\nIn this case JPEG can make a file that's a factor of four or five smaller\nthan a GIF of comparable quality (the -Q 75 file is every bit as good as the\nGIF, better if you have a full-color display). This seems to be a typical\nratio for real-world scenes.\n\n\n[5] What are good \"quality\" settings for JPEG?\n\nMost JPEG compressors let you pick a file size vs. image quality tradeoff by\nselecting a quality setting. There seems to be widespread confusion about\nthe meaning of these settings. \"Quality 95\" does NOT mean \"keep 95% of the\ninformation\", as some have claimed. The quality scale is purely arbitrary;\nit's not a percentage of anything.\n\nThe name of the game in using JPEG is to pick the lowest quality setting\n(smallest file size) that decompresses into an image indistinguishable from\nthe original. This setting will vary from one image to another and from one\nobserver to another, but here are some rules of thumb.\n\nThe default quality setting (-Q 75) is very often the best choice. This\nsetting is about the lowest you can go without expecting to see defects in a\ntypical image. Try -Q 75 first; if you see defects, then go up. Except for\nexperimental purposes, never go above -Q 95; saying -Q 100 will produce a\nfile two or three times as large as -Q 95, but of hardly any better quality.\n\nIf the image was less than perfect quality to begin with, you might be able to\ngo down to -Q 50 without objectionable degradation. On the other hand, you\nmight need to go to a HIGHER quality setting to avoid further degradation.\nThe second case seems to apply much of the time when converting GIFs to JPEG.\nThe default -Q 75 is about right for compressing 24-bit images, but -Q 85 to\n95 is usually better for converting GIFs (see section 14 for more info).\n\nIf you want a very small file (say for preview or indexing purposes) and are\nprepared to tolerate large defects, a -Q setting in the range of 5 to 10 is\nabout right. -Q 2 or so may be amusing as \"op art\".\n\n(Note: the quality settings discussed in this article apply to the free JPEG\nsoftware described in section 6B, and to many programs based on it. Other\nJPEG implementations, such as Image Alchemy, may use a completely different\nquality scale. Some programs don't even provide a numeric scale, just\n\"high\"/\"medium\"/\"low\"-style choices.)\n\n\n[6] Where can I get JPEG software?\n\nMost of the programs described in this section are available by FTP.\nIf you don't know how to use FTP, see the FAQ article \"How to find sources\".\n(If you don't have direct access to FTP, read about ftpmail servers in the\nsame article.) That article appears regularly in news.answers, or you can\nget it by sending e-mail to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu with\n\"send usenet/news.answers/finding-sources\" in the body. The \"Anonymous FTP\nList FAQ\" may also be helpful --- it's usenet/news.answers/ftp-list/faq in\nthe news.answers archive.\n\nNOTE: this list changes constantly. If you have a copy more than a couple\nmonths old, get the latest JPEG FAQ from the news.answers archive.\n\n\n[6A] If you are looking for \"canned\" software, viewers, etc:\n\nThe first part of this list is system-specific programs that only run on one\nkind of system. If you don't see what you want for your machine, check out\nthe portable JPEG software described at the end of the list. Note that this\nlist concentrates on free and shareware programs that you can obtain over\nInternet; but some commercial programs are listed too.\n\nX Windows:\n\nJohn Bradley's free XV (version 2.00 and up) is an excellent viewer for JPEG,\nGIF, and other image formats. It's available for FTP from export.lcs.mit.edu\nor ftp.cis.upenn.edu. The file is called 'xv-???.tar.Z' (where ??? is the\nversion number, currently 2.21); it is located in the 'contrib' directory on\nexport or the 'pub/xv' directory at upenn. XV reduces all images to 8 bits\ninternally, which means it's not a real good choice if you have a 24-bit\ndisplay (you'll still get only 8-bit color). Also, you shouldn't use XV to\nconvert full-color images to JPEG, because they'll get color-quantized first.\nBut XV is a fine tool for converting GIF and other 8-bit images to JPEG.\nCAUTION: there is a glitch in versions 2.21 and earlier: be sure to check\nthe \"save at normal size\" checkbox when saving a JPEG file, or the file will\nbe blurry.\n\nAnother good choice for X Windows is John Cristy's free ImageMagick package,\nalso available from export.lcs.mit.edu, file contrib/ImageMagick.tar.Z.\nThis package handles many image processing and conversion tasks. The\nImageMagick viewer handles 24-bit displays correctly; for colormapped\ndisplays, it does better (though slower) color quantization than XV or the\nbasic free JPEG software.\n\nBoth of the above are large, complex packages. If you just want a simple\nimage viewer, try xloadimage or xli. xloadimage supports JPEG in its latest\nrelease, 3.03. xloadimage is free and available from export.lcs.mit.edu,\nfile contrib/xloadimage.3.03.tar.Z. xli is a variant version of xloadimage,\nsaid by its fans to be somewhat faster and more robust than the original.\n(The current xli is indeed faster and more robust than the current\nxloadimage, at least with respect to JPEG files, because it has the IJG v4\ndecoder while xloadimage 3.03 is using a hacked-over v1. The next\nxloadimage release will fix this.) xli is also free and available from\nexport.lcs.mit.edu, file contrib/xli.1.14.tar.Z. Both programs are said\nto do the right thing with 24-bit displays.\n\n\nMS-DOS:\n\nThis covers plain DOS; for Windows or OS/2 programs, see the next headings.\n\nOne good choice is Eric Praetzel's free DVPEG, which views JPEG and GIF files.\nThe current version, 2.4a, is available by FTP from sunee.uwaterloo.ca\n(129.97.50.50), file pub/jpeg/viewers/dvpeg24a.zip. This is a good basic\nviewer that works on either 286 or 386/486 machines. The user interface is\nnot flashy, but it's functional.\n\nAnother freeware JPEG/GIF/TGA viewer is Mohammad Rezaei's Hiview. The\ncurrent version, 1.2, is available from Simtel20 and mirror sites (see NOTE\nbelow), file msdos/graphics/hv12.zip. Hiview requires a 386 or better CPU\nand a VCPI-compatible memory manager (QEMM386 and 386MAX work; Windows and\nOS/2 do not). Hiview is currently the fastest viewer for images that are no\nbigger than your screen. For larger images, it scales the image down to fit\non the screen (rather than using panning/scrolling as most viewers do).\nYou may or may not prefer this approach, but there's no denying that it\nslows down loading of large images considerably. Note: installation is a\nbit tricky; read the directions carefully!\n\nA shareware alternative is ColorView for DOS ($30). This is easier to\ninstall than either of the two freeware alternatives. Its user interface is\nalso much spiffier-looking, although personally I find it harder to use ---\nmore keystrokes, inconsistent behavior. It is faster than DVPEG but a\nlittle slower than Hiview, at least on my hardware. (For images larger than\nscreen size, DVPEG and ColorView seem to be about the same speed, and both\nare faster than Hiview.) The current version is 2.1, available from\nSimtel20 and mirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/graphics/dcview21.zip.\nRequires a VESA graphics driver; if you don't have one, look in vesadrv2.zip\nor vesa-tsr.zip from the same directory. (Many recent PCs have a built-in\nVESA driver, so don't try to load a VESA driver unless ColorView complains\nthat the driver is missing.)\n\nA second shareware alternative is Fullview, which has been kicking around\nthe net for a while, but I don't know any stable archive location for it.\nThe current (rather old) version is inferior to the above viewers anyway.\nThe author tells me that a new version of Fullview will be out shortly\nand it will be submitted to the Simtel20 archives at that time.\n\nThe well-known GIF viewer CompuShow (CSHOW) supports JPEG in its latest\nrevision, 8.60a. However, CSHOW's JPEG implementation isn't very good:\nit's slow (about half the speed of the above viewers) and image quality is\npoor except on hi-color displays. Too bad ... it'd have been nice to see a\ngood JPEG capability in CSHOW. Shareware, $25. Available from Simtel20 and\nmirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/gif/cshw860a.zip.\n\nDue to the remarkable variety of PC graphics hardware, any one of these\nviewers might not work on your particular machine. If you can't get *any*\nof them to work, you'll need to use one of the following conversion programs\nto convert JPEG to GIF, then view with your favorite GIF viewer. (If you\nhave hi-color hardware, don't use GIF as the intermediate format; try to\nfind a TARGA-capable viewer instead. VPIC5.0 is reputed to do the right\nthing with hi-color displays.)\n\nThe Independent JPEG Group's free JPEG converters are FTPable from Simtel20\nand mirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/graphics/jpeg4.zip (or\njpeg4386.zip if you have a 386 and extended memory). These files are DOS\ncompilations of the free source code described in section 6B; they will\nconvert JPEG to and from GIF, Targa, and PPM formats.\n\nHandmade Software offers free JPEG<=>GIF conversion tools, GIF2JPG/JPG2GIF.\nThese are slow and are limited to conversion to and from GIF format; in\nparticular, you can't get 24-bit color output from a JPEG. The major\nadvantage of these tools is that they will read and write HSI's proprietary\nJPEG format as well as the Usenet-standard JFIF format. Since HSI-format\nfiles are rather widespread on BBSes, this is a useful capability. Version\n2.0 of these tools is free (prior versions were shareware). Get it from\nSimtel20 and mirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/graphics/gif2jpg2.zip.\nNOTE: do not use HSI format for files to be posted on Internet, since it is\nnot readable on non-PC platforms.\n\nHandmade Software also has a shareware image conversion and manipulation\npackage, Image Alchemy. This will translate JPEG files (both JFIF and HSI\nformats) to and from many other image formats. It can also display images.\nA demo version of Image Alchemy version 1.6.1 is available from Simtel20 and\nmirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/graphics/alch161.zip.\n\nNOTE ABOUT SIMTEL20: The Internet's key archive site for PC-related programs\nis Simtel20, full name wsmr-simtel20.army.mil (192.88.110.20). Simtel20\nruns a non-Unix system with weird directory names; where this document\nrefers to directory (eg) \"msdos/graphics\" at Simtel20, that really means\n\"pd1:\". If you are not physically on MILnet, you should\nexpect rather slow FTP transfer rates from Simtel20. There are several\nInternet sites that maintain copies (mirrors) of the Simtel20 archives;\nmost FTP users should go to one of the mirror sites instead. A popular USA\nmirror site is oak.oakland.edu (141.210.10.117), which keeps Simtel20 files\nin (eg) \"/pub/msdos/graphics\". If you have no FTP capability, you can\nretrieve files from Simtel20 by e-mail; see informational postings in\ncomp.archives.msdos.announce to find out how. If you are outside the USA,\nconsult the same newsgroup to learn where your nearest Simtel20 mirror is.\n\nMicrosoft Windows:\n\nThere are several Windows programs capable of displaying JPEG images.\n(Windows viewers are generally slower than DOS viewers on the same hardware,\ndue to Windows' system overhead. Note that you can run the DOS conversion\nprograms described above inside a Windows DOS window.)\n\nThe newest entry is WinECJ, which is free and EXTREMELY fast. Version 1.0\nis available from ftp.rahul.net, file /pub/bryanw/pc/jpeg/wecj.zip.\nRequires Windows 3.1 and 256-or-more-colors mode. This is a no-frills\nviewer with the bad habit of hogging the machine completely while it\ndecodes; and the image quality is noticeably worse than other viewers.\nBut it's so fast you'll use it anyway, at least for previewing...\n\nJView is freeware, fairly fast, has good on-line help, and can write out the\ndecompressed image in Windows BMP format; but it can't create new JPEG\nfiles, and it doesn't view GIFs. JView also lacks some other useful\nfeatures of the shareware viewers (such as brightness adjustment), but it's\nan excellent basic viewer. The current version, 0.9, is available from\nftp.cica.indiana.edu (129.79.20.84), file pub/pc/win3/desktop/jview090.zip.\n(Mirrors of this archive can be found at some other Internet sites,\nincluding wuarchive.wustl.edu.)\n\nWinJPEG (shareware, $20) displays JPEG,GIF,Targa,TIFF, and BMP image files;\nit can write all of these formats too, so it can be used as a converter.\nIt has some other nifty features including color-balance adjustment and\nslideshow. The current version is 2.1, available from Simtel20 and mirror\nsites (see NOTE above), file msdos/windows3/winjp210.zip. (This is a slow\n286-compatible version; if you register, you'll get the 386-only version,\nwhich is roughly 25% faster.)\n\nColorView is another shareware entry ($30). This was an early and promising\ncontender, but it has not been updated in some time, and at this point it\nhas no real advantages over WinJPEG. If you want to try it anyway, the\ncurrent version is 0.97, available from ftp.cica.indiana.edu, file\npub/pc/win3/desktop/cview097.zip. (I understand that a new version will\nbe appearing once the authors are finished with ColorView for DOS.)\n\nDVPEG (see DOS heading) also works under Windows, but only in full-screen\nmode, not in a window.\n\nOS/2:\n\nThe following files are available from hobbes.nmsu.edu (128.123.35.151).\nNote: check /pub/uploads for more recent versions --- the hobbes moderator\nis not very fast about moving uploads into their permanent directories.\n/pub/os2/2.x/graphics/jpegv4.zip\n 32-bit version of free IJG conversion programs, version 4.\n/pub/os2/all/graphics/jpeg4-16.zip\n 16-bit version of same, for OS/2 1.x.\n/pub/os2/2.x/graphics/imgarc11.zip\n Image Archiver 1.01: image conversion/viewing with PM graphical interface.\n Strong on conversion functions, viewing is a bit weaker. Shareware, $15.\n/pub/os2/2.x/graphics/pmjpeg11.zip\n PMJPEG 1.1: OS/2 2.x port of WinJPEG, a popular viewer for Windows\n (see description in Windows section). Shareware, $20.\n/pub/os2/2.x/graphics/pmview84.zip\n PMView 0.84: JPEG/GIF/BMP viewer. GIF viewing very fast, JPEG viewing\n fast if you have huge amounts of RAM, otherwise about the same speed\n as the above programs. Strong 24-bit display support. Shareware, $20.\n\nMacintosh:\n\nMost Mac JPEG programs rely on Apple's JPEG implementation, which is part of\nthe QuickTime system extension; so you need to have QuickTime installed.\nTo use QuickTime, you need a 68020 or better CPU and you need to be running\nSystem 6.0.7 or later. (If you're running System 6, you must also install\nthe 32-bit QuickDraw extension; this is built-in on System 7.) You can get\nQuickTime by FTP from ftp.apple.com, file dts/mac/quicktime/quicktime.hqx.\n(As of 11/92, this file contains QuickTime 1.5, which is better than QT 1.0\nin several ways. With respect to JPEG, it is marginally faster and\nconsiderably less prone to crash when fed a corrupt JPEG file. However,\nsome applications seem to have compatibility problems with QT 1.5.)\n\nMac users should keep in mind that QuickTime's JPEG format, PICT/JPEG, is\nnot the same as the Usenet-standard JFIF JPEG format. (See section 10 for\ndetails.) If you post images on Usenet, make sure they are in JFIF format.\nMost of the programs mentioned below can generate either format.\n\nThe first choice is probably JPEGView, a free program for viewing images\nthat are in JFIF format, PICT/JPEG format, or GIF format. It also can\nconvert between the two JPEG formats. The current version, 2.0, is a big\nimprovement over prior versions. Get it from sumex-aim.stanford.edu\n(36.44.0.6), file /info-mac/app/jpeg-view-20.hqx. Requires System 7 and\nQuickTime. On 8-bit displays, JPEGView usually produces the best color\nimage quality of all the currently available Mac JPEG viewers. JPEGView can\nview large images in much less memory than other Mac viewers; in fact, it's\nthe only one that can deal with JPEG images much over 640x480 pixels on a\ntypical 4MB Mac. Given a large image, JPEGView automatically scales it down\nto fit on the screen, rather than presenting scroll bars like most other\nviewers. (You can zoom in on any desired portion, though.) Some people\nlike this behavior, some don't. Overall, JPEGView's user interface is very\nwell thought out.\n\nGIFConverter, a shareware ($40) image viewer/converter, supports JFIF and\nPICT/JPEG, as well as GIF and several other image formats. The latest\nversion is 2.3.2. Get it from sumex-aim.stanford.edu, file\n/info-mac/art/gif/gif-converter-232.hqx. Requires System 6.0.5 or later.\nGIFConverter is not better than JPEGView as a plain JPEG/GIF viewer, but\nit has much more extensive image manipulation and format conversion\ncapabilities, so you may find it worth its shareware fee if you do a lot of\nplaying around with images. Also, the newest version of GIFConverter can\nload and save JFIF images *without* QuickTime, so it is your best bet if\nyour machine is too old to run QuickTime. (But it's faster with QuickTime.)\nNote: If GIFConverter runs out of memory trying to load a large JPEG, try\nconverting the file to GIF with JPEG Convert, then viewing the GIF version.\n\nJPEG Convert, a Mac version of the free IJG JPEG conversion utilities, is\navailable from sumex-aim.stanford.edu, file /info-mac/app/jpeg-convert-10.hqx.\nThis will run on any Mac, but it only does file conversion, not viewing.\nYou can use it in conjunction with any GIF viewer.\n\nPrevious versions of this FAQ recommended Imagery JPEG v0.6, a JPEG<=>GIF\nconverter based on an old version of the IJG code. If you are using this\nprogram, you definitely should replace it with JPEG Convert.\n\nApple's free program PictPixie can view images in JFIF, QuickTime JPEG, and\nGIF format, and can convert between these formats. You can get PictPixie\nfrom ftp.apple.com, file dts/mac/quicktime/qt.1.0.stuff/pictpixie.hqx.\nRequires QuickTime. PictPixie was intended as a developer's tool, and it's\nreally not the best choice unless you like to fool around with QuickTime.\nSome of its drawbacks are that it requires lots of memory, it produces\nrelatively poor color image quality on anything less than a 24-bit display,\nand it has a relatively unfriendly user interface. Worse, PictPixie is an\nunsupported program, meaning it has some minor bugs that Apple does not\nintend to fix. (There is an old version of PictPixie, called\nPICTCompressor, floating around the net. If you have this you should trash\nit, as it's even buggier. Also, the QuickTime Starter Kit includes a much\ncleaned-up descendant of PictPixie called Picture Compressor. Note that\nPicture Compressor is NOT free and may not be distributed on the net.)\n\nStorm Technology's Picture Decompress is a free JPEG viewer/converter.\nThis rather old program is inferior to the above programs in many ways, but\nit will run without System 7 or QuickTime, so you may be forced to use it on\nolder systems. (It does need 32-bit QuickDraw, so really old machines can't\nuse it.) You can get it from sumex-aim.stanford.edu, file\n/info-mac/app/picture-decompress-201.hqx. You must set the file type of a\ndownloaded image file to 'JPEG' to allow Picture Decompress to open it.\n\nIf your machine is too old to run 32-bit QuickDraw (a Mac Plus for instance),\nGIFConverter is your only choice for single-program JPEG viewing. If you\ndon't want to pay for GIFConverter, use JPEG Convert and a free GIF viewer.\n\nMore and more commercial Mac applications are supporting JPEG, although not\nall can deal with the Usenet-standard JFIF format. Adobe Photoshop, version\n2.0.1 or later, can read and write JFIF-format JPEG files (use the JPEG\nplug-in from the Acquire menu). You must set the file type of a downloaded\nJPEG file to 'JPEG' to allow Photoshop to recognize it.\n\nAmiga:\n\n(Most programs listed in this section are stored in the AmiNet archive at\namiga.physik.unizh.ch (130.60.80.80). There are many mirror sites of this\narchive and you should try to use the closest one. In the USA, a good\nchoice is wuarchive.wustl.edu; look under /mirrors/amiga.physik.unizh.ch/...)\n\nHamLab Plus is an excellent JPEG viewer/converter, as well as being a\ngeneral image manipulation tool. It's cheap (shareware, $20) and can read\nseveral formats besides JPEG. The current version is 2.0.8. A demo version\nis available from amiga.physik.unizh.ch (and mirror sites), file\namiga/gfx/edit/hamlab208d.lha. The demo version will crop images larger\nthan 512x512, but it is otherwise fully functional.\n\nRend24 (shareware, $30) is an image renderer that can display JPEG, ILBM,\nand GIF images. The program can be used to create animations, even\ncapturing frames on-the-fly from rendering packages like Lightwave. The\ncurrent version is 1.05, available from amiga.physik.unizh.ch (and mirror\nsites), file amiga/os30/gfx/rend105.lha. (Note: although this directory is\nsupposedly for AmigaDOS 3.0 programs, the program will also run under\nAmigaDOS 1.3, 2.04 or 2.1.)\n\nViewtek is a free JPEG/ILBM/GIF/ANIM viewer. The current version is 1.04,\navailable from amiga.physik.unizh.ch (and mirror sites), file\namiga/gfx/show/ViewTek104.lha.\n\nIf you're willing to spend real money, there are several commercial packages\nthat support JPEG. Two are written by Thomas Krehbiel, the author of Rend24\nand Viewtek. These are CineMorph, a standalone image morphing package, and\nImageFX, an impressive 24-bit image capture, conversion, editing, painting,\neffects and prepress package that also includes CineMorph. Both are\ndistributed by Great Valley Products. Art Department Professional (ADPro),\nfrom ASDG Inc, is the most widely used commercial image manipulation\nsoftware for Amigas. ImageMaster, from Black Belt Systems, is another\nwell-regarded commercial graphics package with JPEG support.\n\nThe free IJG JPEG software is available compiled for Amigas from\namiga.physik.unizh.ch (and mirror sites) in directory amiga/gfx/conv, file\nAmigaJPEGV4.lha. These programs convert JPEG to/from PPM,GIF,Targa formats.\n\nThe Amiga world is heavily infested with quick-and-dirty JPEG programs, many\nbased on an ancient beta-test version of the free IJG JPEG software (thanks\nto a certain magazine that published same on its disk-of-the-month, without\nso much as notifying the authors). Among these are \"AugJPEG\", \"NewAmyJPEG\",\n\"VJPEG\", and probably others I have not even heard of. In my opinion,\nanything older than IJG version 3 (March 1992) is not worth the disk space\nit's stored on; if you have such a program, trash it and get something newer.\n\nAtari ST:\n\nThe free IJG JPEG software is available compiled for Atari ST, TT, etc,\nfrom atari.archive.umich.edu, file /atari/Graphics/jpeg4bin.zoo.\nThese programs convert JPEG to/from PPM, GIF, Targa formats.\n\nI have not heard of any free or shareware JPEG-capable viewer for Ataris,\nbut surely there must be one by now? Pointers appreciated.\n\nAcorn Archimedes:\n\n!ChangeFSI, supplied with RISC OS 3 version 3.10, can convert from and view\nJPEG JFIF format. Provision is also made to convert images to JPEG,\nalthough this must be done from the CLI rather than by double-clicking.\n\nRecent versions (since 7.11) of the shareware program Translator can handle\nJPEG, along with about 30 other image formats. While older versions can be\nfound on some Archimedes bboards, the current version is only available by\nregistering with the author, John Kortink, Nutterbrink 31, 7544 WJ, Enschede,\nThe Netherlands. Price 35 Dutch guilders (about $22 or 10 pounds).\n\nThere's also a commercial product called !JPEG which provides JPEG read/write\nfunctionality and direct JPEG viewing, as well as a host of other image\nformat conversion and processing options. This is more expensive but not\nnecessarily better than the above programs. Contact: DT Software, FREEPOST,\nCambridge, UK. Tel: 0223 841099.\n\n\nPortable software for almost any system:\n\nIf none of the above fits your situation, you can obtain and compile the free\nJPEG conversion software described in 6B. You'll also need a viewer program.\nIf your display is 8 bits or less, any GIF viewer will do fine; if you have a\ndisplay with more color capability, try to find a viewer that can read Targa\nor PPM 24-bit image files.\n\nThere are numerous commercial JPEG offerings, with more popping up every\nday. I recommend that you not spend money on one of these unless you find\nthe available free or shareware software vastly too slow. In that case,\npurchase a hardware-assisted product. Ask pointed questions about whether\nthe product complies with the final JPEG standard and about whether it can\nhandle the JFIF file format; many of the earliest commercial releases are\nnot and never will be compatible with anyone else's files.\n\n\n[6B] If you are looking for source code to work with:\n\nFree, portable C code for JPEG compression is available from the Independent\nJPEG Group, which I lead. A package containing our source code,\ndocumentation, and some small test files is available from several places.\nThe \"official\" archive site for this source code is ftp.uu.net (137.39.1.9\nor 192.48.96.9). Look under directory /graphics/jpeg; the current release\nis jpegsrc.v4.tar.Z. (This is a compressed TAR file; don't forget to\nretrieve in binary mode.) You can retrieve this file by FTP or UUCP.\nIf you are on a PC and don't know how to cope with .tar.Z format, you may\nprefer ZIP format, which you can find at Simtel20 and mirror sites (see NOTE\nabove), file msdos/graphics/jpegsrc4.zip. This file will also be available on\nCompuServe, in the GRAPHSUPPORT forum (GO PICS), library 15, as jpsrc4.zip.\nIf you have no FTP access, you can retrieve the source from your nearest\ncomp.sources.misc archive; version 4 appeared as issues 55-72 of volume 34.\n(If you don't know how to retrieve comp.sources.misc postings, see the FAQ\narticle \"How to find sources\", referred to at the top of section 6.)\n\nThe free JPEG code provides conversion between JPEG \"JFIF\" format and image\nfiles in GIF, PBMPLUS PPM/PGM, Utah RLE, and Truevision Targa file formats.\nThe core compression and decompression modules can easily be reused in other\nprograms, such as image viewers. The package is highly portable; we have\ntested it on many machines ranging from PCs to Crays.\n\nWe have released this software for both noncommercial and commercial use.\nCompanies are welcome to use it as the basis for JPEG-related products.\nWe do not ask a royalty, although we do ask for an acknowledgement in\nproduct literature (see the README file in the distribution for details).\nWe hope to make this software industrial-quality --- although, as with\nanything that's free, we offer no warranty and accept no liability.\n\nThe Independent JPEG Group is a volunteer organization; if you'd like to\ncontribute to improving our software, you are welcome to join.\n\n\n[7] What's all this hoopla about color quantization?\n\nMost people don't have full-color (24 bit per pixel) display hardware.\nTypical display hardware stores 8 or fewer bits per pixel, so it can display\n256 or fewer distinct colors at a time. To display a full-color image, the\ncomputer must map the image into an appropriate set of representative\ncolors. This process is called \"color quantization\". (This is something\nof a misnomer, \"color selection\" would be a better term. We're stuck with\nthe standard usage though.)\n\nClearly, color quantization is a lossy process. It turns out that for most\nimages, the details of the color quantization algorithm have MUCH more impact\non the final image quality than do any errors introduced by JPEG (except at\nthe very lowest JPEG quality settings).\n\nSince JPEG is a full-color format, converting a color JPEG image for display\non 8-bit-or-less hardware requires color quantization. This is true for\n*all* color JPEGs: even if you feed a 256-or-less-color GIF into JPEG, what\ncomes out of the decompressor is *not* 256 colors, but thousands of colors.\nThis happens because JPEG's lossiness affects each pixel a little\ndifferently, so two pixels that started with identical colors will probably\ncome out with slightly different colors. Each original color gets \"smeared\"\ninto a group of nearby colors. Therefore quantization is always required to\ndisplay a color JPEG on a colormapped display, regardless of the image\nsource. The only way to avoid quantization is to ask for gray-scale output.\n\n(Incidentally, because of this effect it's nearly meaningless to talk about\nthe number of colors used by a JPEG image. Even if you attempted to count\nthe number of distinct pixel values, different JPEG decoders would give you\ndifferent results because of roundoff error differences. I occasionally see\nposted images described as \"256-color JPEG\". This tells me that the poster\n(a) hasn't read this FAQ and (b) probably converted the JPEG from a GIF.\nJPEGs can be classified as color or gray-scale (just like photographs), but\nnumber of colors just isn't a useful concept for JPEG.)\n\nOn the other hand, a GIF image by definition has already been quantized to\n256 or fewer colors. (A GIF *does* have a definite number of colors in its\npalette, and the format doesn't allow more than 256 palette entries.)\nFor purposes of Usenet picture distribution, GIF has the advantage that the\nsender precomputes the color quantization, so recipients don't have to.\nThis is also the *disadvantage* of GIF: you're stuck with the sender's\nquantization. If the sender quantized to a different number of colors than\nwhat you can display, you have to re-quantize, resulting in much poorer\nimage quality than if you had quantized once from a full-color image.\nFurthermore, if the sender didn't use a high-quality color quantization\nalgorithm, you're out of luck.\n\nFor this reason, JPEG offers the promise of significantly better image quality\nfor all users whose machines don't match the sender's display hardware.\nJPEG's full color image can be quantized to precisely match the user's display\nhardware. Furthermore, you will be able to take advantage of future\nimprovements in quantization algorithms (there is a lot of active research in\nthis area), or purchase better display hardware, to get a better view of JPEG\nimages you already have. With a GIF, you're stuck forevermore with what was\nsent.\n\nIt's also worth mentioning that many GIF-viewing programs include rather\nshoddy quantization routines. If you view a 256-color GIF on a 16-color EGA\ndisplay, for example, you are probably getting a much worse image than you\nneed to. This is partly an inevitable consequence of doing two color\nquantizations (one to create the GIF, one to display it), but often it's\nalso due to sloppiness. JPEG conversion programs will be forced to use\nhigh quality quantizers in order to get acceptable results at all, and in\nnormal use they will quantize directly to the number of colors to be\ndisplayed. Thus, JPEG is likely to provide better results than the average\nGIF program for low-color-resolution displays as well as high-resolution ones!\n\nFinally, an ever-growing number of people have better-than-8-bit display\nhardware already: 15-bit \"hi-color\" PC displays, true 24-bit displays on\nworkstations and Macintoshes, etc. For these people, GIF is already\nobsolete, as it cannot represent an image to the full capabilities of their\ndisplay. JPEG images can drive these displays much more effectively.\nThus, JPEG is an all-around better choice than GIF for representing images\nin a machine-independent fashion.\n\n\n[8] How does JPEG work?\n\nThe buzz-words to know are chrominance subsampling, discrete cosine\ntransforms, coefficient quantization, and Huffman or arithmetic entropy\ncoding. This article's long enough already, so I'm not going to say more\nthan that here. For technical information, see the comp.compression FAQ.\nThis is available from the news.answers archive at rtfm.mit.edu, in files\n/pub/usenet/news.answers/compression-faq/part[1-3]. If you need help in\nusing the news.answers archive, see the top of this article.\n\n\n[9] What about lossless JPEG?\n\nThere's a great deal of confusion on this subject. The JPEG committee did\ndefine a truly lossless compression algorithm, i.e., one that guarantees the\nfinal output is bit-for-bit identical to the original input. However, this\nlossless mode has almost nothing in common with the regular, lossy JPEG\nalgorithm, and it offers much less compression. At present, very few\nimplementations of lossless JPEG exist, and all of them are commercial.\n\nSaying \"-Q 100\" to the free JPEG software DOES NOT get you a lossless image.\nWhat it does get rid of is deliberate information loss in the coefficient\nquantization step. There is still a good deal of information loss in the\ncolor subsampling step. (With the V4 free JPEG code, you can also say\n\"-sample 1x1\" to turn off subsampling. Keep in mind that many commercial\nJPEG implementations cannot cope with the resulting file.)\n\nEven with both quantization and subsampling turned off, the regular JPEG\nalgorithm is not lossless, because it is subject to roundoff errors in\nvarious calculations. The maximum error is a few counts in any one pixel\nvalue; it's highly unlikely that this could be perceived by the human eye,\nbut it might be a concern if you are doing machine processing of an image.\n\nAt this minimum-loss setting, regular JPEG produces files that are perhaps\nhalf the size of an uncompressed 24-bit-per-pixel image. True lossless JPEG\nprovides roughly the same amount of compression, but it guarantees\nbit-for-bit accuracy.\n\nIf you have an application requiring lossless storage of images with less\nthan 6 bits per pixel (per color component), you may want to look into the\nJBIG bilevel image compression standard. This performs better than JPEG\nlossless on such images. JPEG lossless is superior to JBIG on images with\n6 or more bits per pixel; furthermore, JPEG is public domain (at least with a\nHuffman back end), while the JBIG techniques are heavily covered by patents.\n\n\n[10] Why all the argument about file formats?\n\nStrictly speaking, JPEG refers only to a family of compression algorithms;\nit does *not* refer to a specific image file format. The JPEG committee was\nprevented from defining a file format by turf wars within the international\nstandards organizations.\n\nSince we can't actually exchange images with anyone else unless we agree on\na common file format, this leaves us with a problem. In the absence of\nofficial standards, a number of JPEG program writers have just gone off to\n\"do their own thing\", and as a result their programs aren't compatible with\nanybody else's.\n\nThe closest thing we have to a de-facto standard JPEG format is some work\nthat's been coordinated by people at C-Cube Microsystems. They have defined\ntwo JPEG-based file formats:\n * JFIF (JPEG File Interchange Format), a \"low-end\" format that transports\n pixels and not much else.\n * TIFF/JPEG, aka TIFF 6.0, an extension of the Aldus TIFF format. TIFF is\n a \"high-end\" format that will let you record just about everything you\n ever wanted to know about an image, and a lot more besides :-). TIFF is\n a lot more complex than JFIF, and may well prove less transportable,\n because different vendors have historically implemented slightly different\n and incompatible subsets of TIFF. It's not likely that adding JPEG to the\n mix will do anything to improve this situation.\nBoth of these formats were developed with input from all the major vendors\nof JPEG-related products; it's reasonably likely that future commercial\nproducts will adhere to one or both standards.\n\nI believe that Usenet should adopt JFIF as the replacement for GIF in\npicture postings. JFIF is simpler than TIFF and is available now; the\nTIFF 6.0 spec has only recently been officially adopted, and it is still\nunusably vague on some crucial details. Even when TIFF/JPEG is well\ndefined, the JFIF format is likely to be a widely supported \"lowest common\ndenominator\"; TIFF/JPEG files may never be as transportable.\n\nA particular case that people may be interested in is Apple's QuickTime\nsoftware for the Macintosh. QuickTime uses a JFIF-compatible format wrapped\ninside the Mac-specific PICT structure. Conversion between JFIF and\nQuickTime JPEG is pretty straightforward, and several Mac programs are\navailable to do it (see Mac portion of section 6A). If you have an editor\nthat handles binary files, you can strip a QuickTime JPEG PICT down to JFIF\nby hand; see section 11 for details.\n\nAnother particular case is Handmade Software's programs (GIF2JPG/JPG2GIF and\nImage Alchemy). These programs are capable of reading and writing JFIF\nformat. By default, though, they write a proprietary format developed by\nHSI. This format is NOT readable by any non-HSI programs and should not be\nused for Usenet postings. Use the -j switch to get JFIF output. (This\napplies to old versions of these programs; the current releases emit JFIF\nformat by default. You still should be careful not to post HSI-format\nfiles, unless you want to get flamed by people on non-PC platforms.)\n\n\n[11] How do I recognize which file format I have, and what do I do about it?\n\nIf you have an alleged JPEG file that your software won't read, it's likely\nto be HSI format or some other proprietary JPEG-based format. You can tell\nwhat you have by inspecting the first few bytes of the file:\n\n1. A JFIF-standard file will start with the characters (hex) FF D8 FF E0,\n followed by two variable bytes (often hex 00 10), followed by 'JFIF'.\n\n2. If you see FF D8 at the start, but not the rest of it, you may have a\n \"raw JPEG\" file. This is probably decodable as-is by JFIF software ---\n it's worth a try, anyway.\n\n3. HSI files start with 'hsi1'. You're out of luck unless you have HSI\n software. Portions of the file may look like plain JPEG data, but they\n won't decompress properly with non-HSI programs.\n\n4. A Macintosh PICT file, if JPEG-compressed, will have a couple hundred\n bytes of header followed by a JFIF header (scan for 'JFIF'). Strip off\n everything before the FF D8 and you should be able to read it.\n\n5. Anything else: it's a proprietary format, or not JPEG at all. If you are\n lucky, the file may consist of a header and a raw JPEG data stream.\n If you can identify the start of the JPEG data stream (look for FF D8),\n try stripping off everything before that.\n\nIn uuencoded Usenet postings, the characteristic JFIF pattern is\n\n\t\"begin\" line\n\tM_]C_X ...\n\nwhereas uuencoded HSI files will start with\n\n\t\"begin\" line\n\tM:'-I ...\n\nIf you learn to check for the former, you can save yourself the trouble of\ndownloading non-JFIF files.\n\n\n[12] What about arithmetic coding?\n\nThe JPEG spec defines two different \"back end\" modules for the final output\nof compressed data: either Huffman coding or arithmetic coding is allowed.\nThe choice has no impact on image quality, but arithmetic coding usually\nproduces a smaller compressed file. On typical images, arithmetic coding\nproduces a file 5 or 10 percent smaller than Huffman coding. (All the\nfile-size numbers previously cited are for Huffman coding.)\n\nUnfortunately, the particular variant of arithmetic coding specified by the\nJPEG standard is subject to patents owned by IBM, AT&T, and Mitsubishi.\nThus *you cannot legally use arithmetic coding* unless you obtain licenses\nfrom these companies. (The \"fair use\" doctrine allows people to implement\nand test the algorithm, but actually storing any images with it is dubious\nat best.)\n\nAt least in the short run, I recommend that people not worry about\narithmetic coding; the space savings isn't great enough to justify the\npotential legal hassles. In particular, arithmetic coding *should not*\nbe used for any images to be exchanged on Usenet.\n\nThere is some small chance that the legal situation may change in the\nfuture. Stay tuned for further details.\n\n\n[13] Does loss accumulate with repeated compression/decompression?\n\nIt would be nice if, having compressed an image with JPEG, you could\ndecompress it, manipulate it (crop off a border, say), and recompress it\nwithout any further image degradation beyond what you lost initially.\nUnfortunately THIS IS NOT THE CASE. In general, recompressing an altered\nimage loses more information, though usually not as much as was lost the\nfirst time around.\n\nThe next best thing would be that if you decompress an image and recompress\nit *without changing it* then there is no further loss, i.e., you get an\nidentical JPEG file. Even this is not true; at least, not with the current\nfree JPEG software. It's essentially a problem of accumulation of roundoff\nerror. If you repeatedly compress and decompress, the image will eventually\ndegrade to where you can see visible changes from the first-generation\noutput. (It usually takes many such cycles to get visible change.)\nOne of the things on our to-do list is to see if accumulation of error can\nbe avoided or limited, but I am not optimistic about it.\n\nIn any case, the most that could possibly be guaranteed would be that\ncompressing the unmodified full-color output of djpeg, at the original\nquality setting, would introduce no further loss. Even such simple changes\nas cropping off a border could cause further roundoff-error degradation.\n(If you're wondering why, it's because the pixel-block boundaries move.\nIf you cropped off only multiples of 16 pixels, you might be safe, but\nthat's a mighty limited capability!)\n\nThe bottom line is that JPEG is a useful format for archival storage and\ntransmission of images, but you don't want to use it as an intermediate\nformat for sequences of image manipulation steps. Use a lossless format\n(PPM, RLE, TIFF, etc) while working on the image, then JPEG it when you are\nready to file it away. Aside from avoiding degradation, you will save a lot\nof compression/decompression time this way :-).\n\n\n[14] What are some rules of thumb for converting GIF images to JPEG?\n\nAs stated earlier, you *will* lose some amount of image information if you\nconvert an existing GIF image to JPEG. If you can obtain the original\nfull-color data the GIF was made from, it's far better to make a JPEG from\nthat. But if you need to save space and have only the GIF to work from,\nhere are some suggestions for getting maximum space savings with minimum\nloss of quality.\n\nThe first rule when converting a GIF library is to look at each JPEG, to\nmake sure you are happy with it, before throwing away the corresponding GIF;\nthat will give you a chance to re-do the conversion with a higher quality\nsetting if necessary. Some GIFs may be better left as GIFs, as explained in\nsection 3; in particular, cartoon-type GIFs with sixteen or fewer colors\ndon't convert well. You may find that a JPEG file of reasonable quality\nwill be *larger* than the GIF. (So check the sizes too.)\n\nExperience to date suggests that large, high-visual-quality GIFs are the best\ncandidates for conversion to JPEG. They chew up the most storage so offer\nthe most potential savings, and they convert to JPEG with least degradation.\nDon't waste your time converting any GIF much under 100 Kbytes. Also, don't\nexpect JPEG files converted from GIFs to be as small as those created\ndirectly from full-color originals. To maintain image quality you may have\nto let the converted files be as much as twice as big as straight-through\nJPEG files would be (i.e., shoot for 1/2 or 1/3rd the size of the GIF file,\nnot 1/4th as suggested in earlier comparisons).\n\nMany people have developed an odd habit of putting a large constant-color\nborder around a GIF image. While useless, this was nearly free in terms of\nstorage cost in GIF files. It is NOT free in JPEG files, and the sharp\nborder boundary can create visible artifacts (\"ghost\" edges). Do yourself\na favor and crop off any border before JPEGing. (If you are on an X Windows\nsystem, XV's manual and automatic cropping functions are a very painless\nway to do this.)\n\ncjpeg's default Q setting of 75 is appropriate for full-color input, but\nfor GIF inputs, Q settings of 85 to 95 often seem to be necessary to avoid\nimage degradation. (If you apply smoothing as suggested below, the higher\nQ setting may not be necessary.)\n\nColor GIFs of photographs or complex artwork are usually \"dithered\" to fool\nyour eye into seeing more than the 256 colors that GIF can actually store.\nIf you enlarge the image, you will see that adjacent pixels are often of\nsignificantly different colors; at normal size the eye averages these pixels\ntogether to produce the illusion of an intermediate color value. The\ntrouble with dithering is that, to JPEG, it looks like high-spatial-frequency\ncolor noise; and JPEG can't compress noise very well. The resulting JPEG\nfile is both larger and of lower image quality than what you would have\ngotten from JPEGing the original full color image (if you had it).\nTo get around this, you want to \"smooth\" the GIF image before compression.\nSmoothing averages together nearby pixels, thus approximating the color that\nyou thought you saw anyway, and in the process getting rid of the rapid\ncolor changes that give JPEG trouble. Appropriate use of smoothing will\noften let you avoid using a high Q factor, thus further reducing the size of\nthe compressed file, while still obtaining a better-looking output image\nthan you'd get without smoothing.\n\nWith the V4 free JPEG software (or products based on it), a simple smoothing\ncapability is built in. Try \"-smooth 10\" or so when converting GIFs.\nValues of 10 to 25 seem to work well for high-quality GIFs. Heavy-handed\ndithering may require larger smoothing factors. (If you can see regular\nfine-scale patterns on the GIF image even without enlargement, then strong\nsmoothing is definitely called for.) Too large a smoothing factor will blur\nthe output image, which you don't want. If you are an image processing\nwizard, you can also do smoothing with a separate filtering program, such as\npnmconvol from the PBMPLUS package. However, cjpeg's built-in smoother is\na LOT faster than pnmconvol...\n\nThe upshot of all this is that \"cjpeg -quality 85 -smooth 10\" is probably a\ngood starting point for converting GIFs. But if you really care about the\nimage, you'll want to check the results and maybe try a few other settings.\n\n\n---------------------\n\nFor more information about JPEG in general or the free JPEG software in\nparticular, contact the Independent JPEG Group at jpeg-info@uunet.uu.net.\n", "I've started getting a message from Windows 3.1 whenever I try to execute\na DOS program from Windows, either thru the Program Manager or the File\nManager. A message box comes up and says \"This program or one of its\ncomponents is compressed. Use the MS-DOS expand command to expand the\nfile.\"\n\nNow, I know this is bogus, because I can always execute the program\nfrom DOS when not running windows. The program in question is COMMAND.COM\n(yup, the basic DOS command line shell...) And, the expand command tells\nme that the file is already expanded.\n\nAll my windows apps work just fine - I only get this message when trying\nto execute a DOS program from Windows.", "I am working with 24 bit RGB BMP files and need to\ncomvert these to 15 and 16 bit images. How do convert\n24 bit images to 15 and 16 bit RGB images? Thanks! \n", "I'm told that I can replace the colorful windows logo that appears as\nwindows invokes with a graphic of my choosing. The challange is that the\nimage must be in 'RLE' format. I've got GIF's, PIC's, JPG's, TIF's, etc...\neverything but RLE's!\n\nWhat's the best route to converting these things? \nWhat program should I download, and from where? \nHas anybody else done this, and do you have the steps available?", "\nThis is completely false.\n\n\nThis is also false. What you need for multisession capability is\nmultisession capability -- which is based on the firmware and\nelectronics, not the drive speed. I'll admit, though, that I have\nnot seen a multisession capable drive that isn't double speed.\n\n\nThe above (1 & 2), proves 3 to be false.\n\nThe Apple CD300 is an excellent double-speed multi-session PhotoCD\ncapable drive. So are drives based on the slightly-faster Toshiba\nXM3401. Some companies selling such drives are: Spin Peripherals (a\nbargain at $499) and PLI (a company I hate) and Relax Technologies\n(a company I know little about other than that they are a longtime\nplayer in Mac mailorder, which is usually a good sign). The NEC\nCDR74 is also a good choice (NEC's own mechanism, I think). ClubMac\nsells it for around $619.\n\n\nYour welcome, ooh but now I see your from Germany. Most of the\nmailorder info does you little good, I guess. If not:\nSpin Peripherals -- 800-466-1200\nClub Mac -- 800-258-2622\nRelax Tech -- 510-471-6112\n\nNothing wrong with the Apple, though, which is based on a Sony\nmechanism and speed-identical to the NEC. The Toshiba's speed\nadvantage is very slight: 20% in average access time (a minor plus)\nand 10% in data transfer rate (a slightly more important plus).", "\n For a commerical package try WAVE from Precision Visuals\n 505-530-6563\n\n For a free package try KHOROS from University of New Mexico\n 508-277-6563\n ftp from\n ptrg.eece.unm.edu\n\n Login in anonyomus or ftp with a valid email address as the password\n cd /pub/khoros/release\n\n That will get you to the right place.", "I have been using WinQVT/Net 2.81 under Win3.1 (dos 5.0) for quite\nsometime without any problem. I recently installed DOS 6.0 on my 386-40 PC\nand I cannot run WinQVT/Net any more. I keep getting \"Packet received for\ninvalid port-reset sent\" messages on the console window. I can't\nget more than 1 telnet window and can't use ftp!!!\n\n Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.", "\nIn order to emit blue light, a semiconductor must have a band gap energy\nwithin the region of 2.6 to 2.8 electron Volts. According to my physical\nelectronics prof, you can't get an LED with that band gap. That's why you\ndon't find blue LEDs or, for that matter, some other colour of LEDs. That\nis not to say that blue LEDs can't be found. I've seen 'blue' LEDs sold,\nbut they were just your typical visible light LED in a blue plastic covering.\nThey didn't emit very much light...\n\nSource: Solid State Electronic Devices (Ben G. Streetman, 3d ed., Prentice\nHall)\n-- \n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\"Right planet, wrong universe\" - Douglas Adams\n\"If we took the bones out, it wouldn't be crunchy\" - Mr. Whizzo", "\n I need (probably) to write one or more new Motif widgets on the HP-UX\n platform. Do I need the Motif private header files and source,\n or can I make do with the public headers that are provided?\n \"Motif\" includes Xt in this context.\n\nYes. You'll find it almost impossible without the source\nat this point. It does depend on how ambitious you are and\nhow concerned you are about compliance with the general\ninterface and items like traversal.\n\n One widget is a multi-column list (which lots of people have\n already written, I am sure), and would therefore be probably be\n a subclass of List rather than something simple like an Xt class.\n Is this more difficult (in principle, not lines of code)?\n\nI'm not sure what you're asking. You could create something\nwhich is very much like a true multi-column list by placing\nseveral lists within a geometry manager, and putting that\nmanager within an automatic scrolled window. This wouldn't\nbe good for very large lists, but you might consider this\nas an alternative.\n\n Alternatively, if anyone has a multi-column list widget they\n could sell me, this might save me from having to write one!\n Does it by any chance exist in Motif 1.2 already (I do not\n yet have the spec)?\n\nMotif 1.2 does not have a multi-column list in it. Have you\nlooked at commercial sets? There are also some PD \nwidget sets, one of these might have a multi-column list\nyou could port.\n\n", "\nTry xviewgl.\n(filename xviewgl_v1.1.tar.Z on lots of bases)\n\n- Ove", "-------------------------------------------------------------------------\nAnonymous,\n\nI saw a posting about the choice between 80486DX-50 and a 80486DX2-50.\nI was wondering: although a DX-50 is faster because of the path to it's\nexternal cache, shouldn't the choice be the DX2-50 as that one can be\nmade to work properly with a local-bus? I mean, cache speed is one thing,\nbut all your speed will be blocked during video I/O, so just get that\nfaster... \nI'm willing to speculate that the DX2-50 with local-bus will be 2-4 times \nas fast as the DX-50 and probably as expensive (or cheap ;-)!", "I have notice a lot of electronics questions by people who are obviously not \n\"tuned-in\" to electronics. Many of them have rather simple answers, and \nmany of them require a circuit diagram.\n\nRather than muck up the network, why don't you write to me, send a self-\naddressed, stamped envelop, and I'll answer your questions, if I can.", "DH>>Does anyone out their have a mountain tape backup that I could compare\nDH>>notes with, (jumper settings, software, ect...)\nDH>>or does anyone know where I could contact the makers of this drive ?\n\nDH>You can contact Mountain Network Solutions at:\nDH>800-458-0300 (general number)\nDH>408-438-7897 (tech support)\nDH>408-438-2665 (bbs)\n\nThanks very much for the info David !\nEspecially for their tech and BBS lines.\nThis should get me going...\n\nBye !\n___\n X SLMR 2.1a X It's only a hobby ... only a hobby ... only a", "Kirsch Pull down Window Shades\n\n\t- White, Light Filtering\n\t- 73.25\" Wide, 72\" High, can be cut to width\n\t- Brand new, unopened\n\t- \"Best Quality\", Vinyl Coated Cotton\n\t- Mounting Brackets included\n\t- $35\t(Bought at $60 at J.C.Penney)", "I'm interested in obtaining the highest possible image capture in a \nMS-Windows application. The resulting image must go to print and high resolution\nis the name of the game. I'm familiar with (and unhappy with) composite video\ncapture technology. What kind of resolution can I get out of an SVHS signal? \nWhat about RGB (and who makes RGB cameras)? Does anyone have any experience\nwith digital cameras? \n\nAny help at all would be greatly appreciated.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nWilliam Brandsdorfer | UUCP: !uunet!lehman.com!wbrand\nLehman Brothers | INET: wbrand@lehman.com\n388 Greenwich St. | Voice: (212) 464-3835\nNew York, N.Y. 10013 | ", "Marvin Minsky (hi there) writes of building \"perceptrons?\" in the 1950s using\nmotor-driven potentiometers to vary the weights. He reported that the circuits\nworked even tho there were wiring errors. (Can you say ROBUST?)\n\nCadium Sulfide cells vary with light. CMOS or TTL gates provide the SIGMOID\nsomewhat-linear-yet-somewhat-limiter transfer function often used. \nLow power Schottky gates, and earlier gates, has about a gain of X8.\nLEDs probably output enough light to easily control CdS cells, even at a\nfew mA. And paper with dark and light regions, controlled by pencil and\neraser, could also control CdS resistance. The very high input resistance of\nCMOS gates may let you charge up 1uF paper/mylar caps to serve as memory.", "\n No, you need not bypass the config.sys, in Dos 6.0, there is a function \nof multi-config, have you tried BOOT.SYS ? the multi-config is the kind that \nyou can choose you config.sys at the startup. And I find that is very good. \nIt has no conflict to QEMM. (I have problem when using BOOT.SYS)\n The key you say is F8, which is trace the config.sys step by step.\n Sorry, if any error :)", "Posted on behalf of Craig Southeren who does not have access to\na net account:\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nCan anyone provide me with a colour space transform that would\nemulate the effects of red/green colour blindness? I have had\na quick look in the computer graphics literature with no results.\nPerhaps someone who has access to medical information could help?\n\nI would like to write a program (probably a PPM filter) to allow\npreviewing of images to check for sufficient contract for colour\nblind users. Not being colour blind myself, this is a bit difficult!\n\nPlease email replies - I will summarise and repost if there is\nsufficient interest\n\n Craig\n\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\nCraig Southeren | \"You can have it good, cheap,\nChief Engineer, | or fast. Any two.\"\nPicture Start Productions | Arthur C. Clarke\nemail: c/- geoffw@ucc.su.OZ.AU | \nphone: +61 2 959 5550 | \"Educate - don't legislate\"", "Can anybody tell me if they know where I can obtain the source code for\na polygon filling algorithm, or any other graphics orientated mailing lists\nthat may be able to help me.\n\nThanks, Paul.\n-- \n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------", "\nAdobe has been doing this for years.\n\n\nThere are some fonts that are only available as PS fonts. If you\nhave a PS font that you want to use, use ATM. Otherwise, it is\na waste of system resources.\n\nPersonally, I use both.\n", ": There is a new version of the RTrace ray-tracing package (8.2.0) at\n: asterix.inescn.pt [192.35.246.17] in directory pub/RTrace.\n: Check the README file.\n\ncant seem to reach the site from over here:\n", "\n\n\nThis is a heavily edited/modified version of the Gopher FAQ intended to\ngive people just starting with gopher enough information to get a\nclient and jump into Gopher-space - a complete version can be obtained\nas described below. Once you have a gopher client point it at \nmerlot.welch.jhu.edu and welcome to gopher-space!\n\n\nDan Jacobson\n\ndanj@welchgate.welch.jhu.edu\n\n-----\n\nCommon Questions and Answers about the Internet Gopher, a\nclient/server protocol for making a world wide information service,\nwith many implementations. Posted to comp.infosystems.gopher, \ncomp.answers, and news.answers every two weeks.\n\nThe most recent version of this FAQ can be gotten through gopher, or\nvia anonymous ftp:\n\nrtfm.mit.edu:/pub/usenet/news.answers/gopher-faq\n\nThose without FTP access should send e-mail to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu\nwith \"send usenet/news.answers/finding-sources\" in the body to find out\nhow to do FTP by e-mail.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------- \nList of questions in the Gopher FAQ:\n\nQ0: What is Gopher?\nQ1: Where can I get Gopher software?\nQ2: What do I need to access Gopher?\nQ3: Where are there publicly available logins for Gopher?\nQ4: Who Develops Gopher Software?\nQ5: What is the relationship between Gopher and (WAIS, WWW, ftp)?\nQ6: Are papers or articles describing Gopher available?\nQ7: What is veronica?\nQ8: What is Available for Biology?\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\nQ0: What is Gopher?\n\nA0: The Internet Gopher client/server provides a distributed\n information delivery system around which a world/campus-wide\n information system (CWIS) can readily be constructed. While\n providing a delivery vehicle for local information, Gopher\n facilitates access to other Gopher and information servers\n throughout the world. \n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\nQ1: Where can I get Gopher software?\n\nA1: via anonymous ftp to boombox.micro.umn.edu. Look in the directory\n /pub/gopher\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------\nQ2: What do I need to access Gopher?\n\nA2: You will need a gopher \"client\" program that runs on your local PC\n or workstation\n\n There are clients for the following systems. The directory\n following the name is the location of the client on the anonymous\n ftp site boombox.micro.umn.edu (134.84.132.2) in the directory\n /pub/gopher.\n\n Unix Curses & Emacs : /pub/gopher/Unix/gopher1.12.tar.Z\n Xwindows (athena) : /pub/gopher/Unix/xgopher1.2.tar.Z\n Xwindows (Motif) : /pub/gopher/Unix/moog\n Xwindows (Xview) : /pub/gopher/Unix/xvgopher\n Macintosh Hypercard : /pub/gopher/Macintosh-TurboGopher/old-versions *\n Macintosh Application : /pub/gopher/Macintosh-TurboGopher *\n DOS w/Clarkson Driver : /pub/gopher/PC_client/\n NeXTstep : /pub/gopher/NeXT/\n VM/CMS : /pub/gopher/Rice_CMS/ or /pub/gopher/VieGOPHER/\n VMS : /pub/gopher/VMS/\n OS/2 2.0\t : /pub/gopher/os2/\n MVS/XA : /pub/gopher/mvs/\n\n Many other clients and servers have been developed by others, the\n following is an attempt at a comprehensive list. \n\n A Microsoft Windows Winsock client \"The Gopher Book\"\n sunsite.unc.edu:/pub/micro/pc-stuff/ms-windows/winsock/goph_tbk.zip\n\n A Macintosh Application, \"MacGopher\".\n ftp.cc.utah.edu:/pub/gopher/Macintosh *\n\n Another Macintosh application, \"GopherApp\".\n ftp.bio.indiana.edu:/util/gopher/gopherapp *\n\n A port of the UNIX curses client for DOS with PC/TCP\n oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu:/public/dos/misc/dosgopher.exe\n\n A port of the UNIX curses client for PC-NFS\n \t bcm.tmc.edu:/nfs/gopher.exe\n\n A beta version of the PC Gopher client for Novell's LAN Workplace\n for DOS\n lennon.itn.med.umich.edu:/dos/gopher\n\n A VMS DECwindows client for use with Wollongong or UCX\n job.acs.ohio-state.edu:XGOPHER_CLIENT.SHARE\n\n\n * Note: these Macintosh clients require MacTCP.\n\n Most of the above clients can also be fetched via a gopher client\n itself. Put the following on a gopher server:\n\n Type=1\n Host=boombox.micro.umn.edu\n Port=70\n Path=\n Name=Gopher Software Distribution.\n\n \n Or point your gopher client at boombox.micro.umn.edu, port 70 and\n look in the gopher directory.\n\n\n There are also a number of public telnet login sites available.\n The University of Minnesota operates one on the machine\n \"consultant.micro.umn.edu\" (134.84.132.4) See Q3 for more\n information about this. It is recommended that you run the client\n software instead of logging into the public telnet login sites. A\n client uses the custom features of the local machine (mouse,\n scroll bars, etc.) A local client is also faster.\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\nQ3: Where are there publicly available logins (ie places to telnet to\n in order to get a taste of gopher) for Gopher?\n\nA3: Here is a short list, use the site closest to you to minimize\n network lag.\n\n Telnet Public Logins:\n\n Hostname IP# Login Area\n ------------------------- --------------- ------ -------------\n consultant.micro.umn.edu 134.84.132.4\tgopher North America\n gopher.uiuc.edu 128.174.33.160 gopher North America\n panda.uiowa.edu 128.255.40.201\tpanda North America\n gopher.sunet.se 192.36.125.2 gopher Europe\n info.anu.edu.au 150.203.84.20 info Australia\n gopher.chalmers.se 129.16.221.40 gopher Sweden\n tolten.puc.cl 146.155.1.16 gopher South America\n ecnet.ec\t\t 157.100.45.2 gopher Ecuador\n gan.ncc.go.jp 160.190.10.1 gopher Japan\n\n\n It is recommended that you run the client software instead of\n logging into the public login sites. A client uses the\n custom features of the local machine (mouse, scroll bars, etc.)\n and gives faster response. Furthermore many of the basic features\n of clients - saving a file to your hard drive, printing a file\n to a local printer, viewing images, retrieving files from ftp\n sites etc.... are not available by the telnet logins.\n\n\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\nQ4: Who Develops Gopher Software?\n\nA4: Gopher was originally developed in April 1991 by the University\n of Minnesota Microcomputer, Workstation, Networks Center to help\n our campus find answers to their computer questions. \n\n It has since grown into a full-fledged World Wide Information\n System used by a large number of sites in the world.\n\n Many people have contributed to the project, too numerous to\n count. \n\n The people behind the much of the gopher software can be reached\n via e-mail at gopher@boombox.micro.umn.edu, or via paper mail:\n \n Internet Gopher Developers\n 100 Union St. SE #190\n Minneapolis, MN 55455 USA\n\n Or via FAX at:\n \n +1 (612) 625-6817\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\nQ5: What is the relationship between Gopher and (WAIS, WWW, ftp)?\n\nA5: Gopher is intimately intertwined with these two other systems.\n As shipped the Unix gopher server has the capability to: \n \n - Search local WAIS indices.\n - Query remote WAIS servers and funnel the results to gopher\n clients.\n - Query remote ftp sites and funnel the results to gopher\n clients.\n - Be queried by WWW (World Wide Web) clients (either using\n built in gopher querying or using native http querying.\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\nQ6: Are papers or articles describing Gopher available?\n\nA6: Gopher has a whole chapter devoted to it in :\n\n _The_Whole_Internet_, Ed Kroll, O'Reilly, 1992 (Editors note:\n ..Great book, go out and buy a bunch!)\n\n _The_Internet_Passport: NorthWestNet's Guide to Our World Online\"\n By Jonathan Kochmer and NorthWestNet. Published by NorthWestNet,\n Bellevue, WA. 1993. 516 pp. ISBN 0-9635281-0-6. \n Contact info: passport@nwnet.net, or (206) 562-3000\n\n _A_Students_Guide_to_UNIX by Harley Hahn. (publisher McGraw Hill,\n Inc.; 1993 ISBN 0-07-025511-3)\n\n\n Other references include:\n\n _The_Internet_Gopher_, \"ConneXions\", July 1992, Interop.\n\n _Exploring_Internet_GopherSpace_ \"The Internet Society News\", v1n2 1992, \n\n (You can subscribe to the Internet Society News by sending e-mail to\n isoc@nri.reston.va.us)\n\n _The_Internet_Gopher_Protocol_, Proceedings of the Twenty-Third\n IETF, CNRI, Section 5.3\n\n _Internet_Gopher_, Proceedings of Canadian Networking '92\n\n _The_Internet_Gopher_, INTERNET: Getting Started, SRI\n International, Section 10.5.5\n\n _Tools_help_Internet_users_discover_on-line_treasures, Computerworld,\n July 20, 1992\n\n _TCP/IP_Network_Administration_, O'Reilly.\n\n Balakrishan, B. (Oct 1992)\n \"SPIGopher: Making SPIRES databases accessible through the\n Gopher protocol\". SPIRES Fall '92 Workshop, Chapel Hill, North\n Carolina.\n\n Tomer, C. Information Technology Standards for Libraries,\n _Journal of the American Society for Information Science_,\n 43(8):566-570, Sept 1992.\n\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\nQ7: What is veronica?\n\nA7: veronica: Very Easy Rodent-Oriented Net-wide Index to \n Computerized Archives.\n\n veronica offers a keyword search of most gopher-server menu titles\n in the entire gopher web. As archie is to ftp archives, veronica \n is to gopherspace. A veronica search produces a menu of gopher\n items, each of which is a direct pointer to a gopher data source.\n Because veronica is accessed through a gopher client, it is easy\n to use, and gives access to all types of data supported by the\n gopher protocol.\n\n To try veronica, select it from the \"Other Gophers\" menu on \n Minnesota's gopher server, or point your gopher at:\n\n Name=veronica (search menu items in most of GopherSpace) \n Type=1 \n Port=70 \n Path=1/veronica \n Host=futique.scs.unr.edu\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nQ8: What is Available for Biology?\n\nA8: There is an incredible amount of software, data and information\n availble to biologists now by gopher.\n\nHere is a brief list of the Biological Databases that you can search \nvia gopher:\n\n 2. BDT Tropical Data Base Searches/\n 3. Biotechnet Buyers Guide - Online Catalogues for Biology \n 4. Search Protein Data Bank Headers \n 5. Chlamydomonas Genetics Center /\n 6. Crystallization database/\n 7. HGMP Databases - Probes and Primers /\n 8. Museum of Paleontology TYPE Specimen Index \n 9. MycDB - Mycobacterium DataBase \n 10. Search (Drosophila) Flybase (Indiana)/\n 11. Search (GenBank + SWISS-PROT + PIR + PDB) \n 12. Search AAtDB - An Arabidopsis thaliana Database \n 13. Search ACEDB - A Caenorhabditis elegans Database \n 14. Search CompoundKB - A Metabolic Compound Database \n 15. Search Databases at Welchlab (Vectors, Promoters, NRL-3D, EST, OMI../\n 16. Search EMBL \n 17. Search GenBank \n 18. Search Genbank - 2 \n 19. Search Genbank Updates \n 20. Search LiMB \n 21. Search PIR \n 22. Search PIR (keyword,species...) \n 23. Search PROSITE \n 24. Search Rebase - Restriction Enzyme Database \n 25. Search SWISS-PROT \n 26. Search TFD \n 27. Search the C. elegans Strain List \n 28. Search the DNA Database of Japan \n 29. Search the EC Enzyme Database \n 30. Search the GrainGenes database \n 31. Search the Maize Database /\n 32. Cloning Vectors: plasmids, phage, etc. \n 33. EPD - Eukaryotic Promoter Database \n 34. EST - Expressed Sequence Tag Database - Human \n 35. wEST - Expressed Sequence Tag Database - C. elegans \n 36. Kabat Database of Proteins of Immunological Interest \n 37. NRL_3D Protein Sequence-Structure Database \n 38. OMIM - Online Mendelian Inheritance in Man \n 39. Seqanalref - Sequence Analysis Bibliographic Reference Data Ban.. \n 40. Search Rebase - Restriction Enzyme Database \n 41. Search the EC Enzyme Database \n 42. Search The Rodent Section of Genbank \n 43. Database Taxonomy (Genbank, Swiss-Prot ...)/\n 44. Retrieve Full PDB Entries by Accession Number \n 45. Search for All Researchers funded by NIH \n 46. Search for Genome Researchers funded by DOE \n 47. Search for Researchers funded by NSF \n 48. Search for Researchers funded by the USDA \n 49. E-mail Addresses of Crystallographers/\n 50. E-mail Addresses of Yeast Reasearchers/\n 51. Phonebooks Around the World/\n 52. Search and Retrieve Software for All Computers/\n 53. Search and Retrieve Macintosh Software/\n 54. Search and Retrieve DOS Software/\n 55. Search and Retrieve GNU Software/\n 56. Search and Retrieve Software for Biology/\n 57. Search for Agricultural Software/\n 58. Search and Retrieve Graphics Software and Data/\n 59. Search and Retrieve all Online Perl Scripts/\n 60. FTP Sites For Biology (56 archives for software and data)/\n", "It is model number #7033D, a 14\" interlaced .28dp. BTW, if you have a\nnumber to contact the company, that would really be helpful to. Thanks\nfor replying. I was beginning to believe that I was never going to get\na reply. I posted this on the netnews bboard because the first message\nI sent to you was returned, and I didn't know if my second message would\nget to you.", " \n\nWith regards to what you wrote, how does one \"adjust for room dynamics \nand stuff like that\"? I asked a professor that question just\nlast week and he didn't really know himself. Since pink noise is believed\nto be due to surface states (say, the surface of the Silicon where there's\na lack of a covalent bond) that act as \"traps\" to nearby elecrons, and since\nthis happens at low frequencies (because at high frequencies they aren't\nable to \"trap\" electrons), how do you compensate for that? It seems to me\nthat you wouldn't be able to compensate for pink noise. I have seen the\n\"pink noise\" feature, however, on many EQs, and I was wondering\nhow they are suppose to compensate for noise when pink noise is not due to\n\"man made noise\" like power lines, crosstalks, coupling, etc. If you have\nany information about this, it would be appreciated. Hope this didn't sound\ntoo drawn out. Thanx.", "For sale: 030 direct slot adapter card for the mac iisi (with a mac\ncoprocessor on it as well). If this what you are looking for. Let\nme know, email an offer as well if you are interested. ", "Does anyone know if the source is available to create FLI\nor FLC animations? I would ideally like DLL's for Windows\nbut would settle for C source. I've heard they might be \navailable on Amiga forums somewhere. The libraries\ncurrently distributed by Autodesk, AAWIN, AAPLAY, do NOT\nhave FLI creation capability, only playback.\n\nAny pointers would be appreciated, thanks!", "\n Pink noise has constant power per geometric frequency increment\n(octave, 1/3 octave, etc). Thus the 10kHz-20kHz octave has the same\namount of noise power as the 10Hz-20Hz octave.\n White noise has constant power per arithmetic frequency increment\n(Hz, kHz, etc). Thus the 10kHz-10.1kHz band has the same amount of\nnoise power as the 10Hz-110Hz band (both bands are 100Hz wide).\n Pink noise can be made by passing white noise thru a -3db/octave\nfilter (usually approximated by a network of several RC pairs).\nNote: you can't get -3db/octave by using half a -6db/octave network \n:-(\n Pink noise is commonly used in audio power response measurements.\nIt shows up on audio spectrum analyzers (with octave-related bands)\nas a flat line across the bands.", "Okay, I got enough replies about the Kubota Kenai/Denali systems that I\nwill post a summary of their capabilities. I haven't actually used one\nor seen one, so take the specs with a grain of salt. I'd like to see\nan independent review of one against, say, an SGI Indigo Extreme or\nsomething.\n\nBasically, the Kenai workstations are DEC Alpha AXP based workstations that\nrun OSF/1 ( DEC's ) and will likely run Windows NT in the future. They are\nbinary compatible with Digital's OSF/1 Alpha AXP implementation. Denali\nis their graphics subsystem, which is upgradable in the field by\nsimply adding \"transformation engines\".\n\nThe two main Kenai machines are the 3400 Imaging and 3D Graphics Workstation\nand the 3500 Imaging and 3D Graphics Workstation.\n\n\n\t\t\t3400\t\t\t3500\n\nCPU\t\t\tDEC Alpha AXP 133MHz\tDEC Alpha AXP 150MHz\nOn-chip cache\t\t8k/8k\t\t\t8k/8k\nOnboard cache\t\t512K\t\t\t512K\nWord Size\t\t64-bit\t\t\t64-bit\nMemory ( initial )\t32-128MB\t\t32-256MB\nMemory ( future )\t512MB\t\t\t1GB\nSPECMARK89\t\t111\t\t\t126\nSPECINT92\t\t75\t\t\t84\nSPECFP92\t\t112\t\t\t128\n\nGRAPHICS\n\nTransform Modules\t1-6\t\t\t1-6\nFrame Buffer Modules\t5,10,20\t\t\t5,10,20\nFrame Buffer\t\t1280x1024x24bit\t\t1280x1024x24bit\n\t\t\tdouble buffered\t\tdouble buffered\nZ-buffer\t\t24-bit\t\t\t24-bit\nAlpha/stencil\t\t8-bit\t\t\t8-bit\nStereo support\t\tyes\t\t\tyes\nOther:\t\t\t\tboth machines will double buffer or do\n\t\t\t\tstereo output per window. Both have an\n\t\t\t\tauxiliary video output that is RS-170A,\n\t\t\t\tNTSC, and PAL\n\nSTORAGE\n\nInternal-fixed\t\t2 3.5\"\t\t\t4 3.5\"\nInternal-removable\t1 5.25\"\t\t\t2 5.25\"\nMax capacity\t\t9.5GB\t\t\t11.6 GB\n\nIO\n\nBoth have TurboChannel 100MB/sec, SCSI-2, Ethernet, and FDDI\n\nAPPLICATION PROGRAMMING INTERFACES\n\nBoth have libraries for Xlib, Motif, MIT PEXlib, DEC-PEXlib DEC-PHIGS, and GL\n\nOkay, now the real stuff. The Kenai stations work with a graphics architecture\nknown as Denali. The Denali comes in three models, the E, P, and V. They\nuse a DECchip 21064 superscalar RISC processor at 150MHz. Their\ncapabilities are as follows:\n\n\t\t\tE\t\tP\t\tV\n\n2D Vectors\t\t800-200K\t2000-3800K\t4000-4800K\n3D Vectors #1\t\t350-1100K\t1100-1800K\t1800-2100K\n3D Vectors #2\t\t300-1000K\t1000-1600K\t1600-1900K\n3D Vectors #3\t\t300-500K\t800-1000K\t1300-1400K\n3D Triangles, #4\t200-500K\t600-1000K\t1000-1200K\n3D Triangles, #5\t100-200K\t300-400K\t500-600K\n\n#1: 10 pixel, flat shaded, connected\n#2: 10 pixel, Gouraud shaded, connected\n#3: 10 pixel, 2-pixel wide, anti-aliased, connected\n#4: 50-pixel, Gouraud shaded, Z-buffered, strip\n#5: 50-pixel, texture mapped, persp., point sampled\n\nIMAGE PROCESSING\n\nCine loop - 8-bit\t15-36Mp/s\t37-58 Mp/s\t60-68 Mp/s\nCine loop - 16-bit\t14 Mp/s\t\t25 Mp/s\t\t38 Mp/s\nCine loop - 24-bit\t12-21 Mp/s\t21 Mp/s\t\t21 Mp/s\nContrast stretching #1\t14 Mp/s\t\t25 Mp/s\t\t20 Mp/s\nBilinear zoom\t\t6 Mp/s\t\t11 Mp/s\t\t20 Mp/s\nTrilinear interp#2\t--\t\t6 Mvoxels/s\t11 Mvoxels/s\n\n#1: Lookup table -- 12-,16-bit to 8\n#2: Trilinear interpolation, 8-bit voxels\n\nCONFIGURATIONS\nFrame Buffer Modules\t5\t\t10\t\t20\nTransform Engine Mod.\t1-3\t\t3-5\t\t5-6\n\n\nAs you can see, these are pretty powerful workstations, and the best part\nis the pricing. I would recommend that you call Kubota for more information.\nTheir number is 408-727-8100. I'm sure they'll send you an information you\nmay want. Oh, some prices:\n\nLow-end\n\nKenai 3400, E Series w/ 1 TEM and 5 FBM --- 27,795 dollars U.S.\nKenai 3500, E Series w/ 1 TEM and 5 FBM --- 45,345 dollars U.S.\n\nHigh-end\n\nKenai 3400, V Series w/ 6 TEM and 20 FBM -- 61,795 dollars U.S.\nKenai 3500, V Series w/ 6 TEM and 20 FBM -- 79,345 dollars U.S.\n\nIf someone could post a relative comparision with an Indigo Extreme or\nsomething I would appreciate it.\n\nHope this helps someone out there,\n\nBrian", ": However, unless I\n: missed something, the only source they suggested (aside from a hardware RNG)\n: that seems available, and unguessable by an intruder, when a Unix is\n: fresh-booted, is I/O buffers related to network traffic. I believe my\n: solution basically uses that strategy, without requiring me to reach into\n: the kernel.\n\nA few more sources are statistics on your filesystems (easily\nand quickly obtained) and the output from the \"rusage\" system\ncall. \n\nYou can also exec a finger to one or more favorite heavily-used\nsystems, though this can take several seconds.\n\ncf. the source code to RIPEM on ripem.msu.edu.", "I ordered an external floppy drive from them 2 years ago. When I placed\nthe order, they said it was in stock and would ship the next day. A week\npassed and no drive. I called them up and they said they were out of stock\nand my drive should ship in 2 weeks or so. Since I needed the drive right\naway (both my internal hard drive and floppy were dead) I cancelled my\norder and haven't dealt with them since.", "I would like to sell some software. Shipping is $3 per order - 1 or more\ngames in the continental U.S. $6 to Canada. Contact me for shipping \nto other locations.\n\nContraption Zack $20\n\tPerfect condition. Unregistered & all docs/disks/packaging\n\tA 3-D puzzle game with great animated graphics. Your tools for\n\tfixing up a manufacturing plant are hidden throughout the levels\n\tand you must solve puzzles to get the tools and then use the tools\n\tto fix the machines. The levels are HUGE and span many screens.\n\tThe graphics are cartoony and humorous. (256 color VGA,MCGA,\n\tAdLib,Soundblaster,Roland,3.5\")\n\nLegend of Kyrandia $30\n\tPerfect condition. Unregistered & all docs/disks/packaging\n\tAn adventure where you are the unknowing heir to the throne of \n\tthe kingdom of Kyrandia. An evil jester has murdered your parents, \n\tthe king and queen, and attempted to take control of the kingdom, \n\tonly to be thwarted by a spell cast upon him by your grandfather \n\tand three other magic users. You must travel to find each of the \n\tmagic users to gain use of an amulet that will help you to defeat \n\tthe jester. Beautiful graphics and a great soundtrack. (VGA,MCGA,\n\tAdlib,Sound Blaster,SoundBlaster Pro,MT-32/LAPC-1,3.5\")\n\nSpirit of Excalibur by Virgin Mastertronic $15\n\tGood condition. All docs/disks/packaging.\n\tA fantasy game combining Role-Playing, adventure, and combat\n\tsimulation. You are the Heir to the throne of Britain after Arthur\n\thas died. You must re-unite the land under your rule and then\n\tdefend it against an invading army from the north. (EGA, Tandy, MCGA,\n\tVGA, Sound cards, 5.25\")\n\nLoom $15\n\tPerfect condition. Unregistered & all docs/disks/packaging.\n\tReceived a Computer Gaming World Award for Artistic achievement.\n\tAn adventure game where you play the role of a young weaver of\n\tmusical spells. You must save your fellow weavers from oblivion\n\tby traveling through the land, casting spells, learning new spells\n\tbefriending people you meet, and foiling an evil plot. All\n\tpoint and click -- no typing. Every action in the game involves\n\tcasting your musical spells. (VGA,EGA,CGA,MCGA,TANDY,AdLib,CMS sound,\n\t5.25\")\n\nDark Seed\t\t\t\t\t$35\n\tPerfect condition, used very little. Unregistered & all docs/disks/\n\tpackaging. An adventure based on the surrealistic and macabre \n\tartwork of H.R. Giger -- the inspiration for Alien, Alien III, and \n\tPoltergeist II. You have just bought an old victorian house\n\tat a bargain in a secluded town. You find that there is a portal\n\tto a dark, sinister world in your house and a plot against the\n\tworld as you know it. You must save yourself and your world from\n\ta horrible fate. Gorgeous and Gory high resolution graphics.\n\t(VGA,Adlib,SoundBlaster,3.5\")", "\n\n\n\n\nYou are stuck in a distributed system feedback loop! What if you are on an\nXterminal or running xterm over the net to another machine? That is when the\nload problems occur. If you had a machine with 20 Xterminals attached and\nthey all had blinking cursors in xterm's, this could represent a considerable\nethernet bandwidth waste.\n\nI'm not picking on you, just people keep forgetting that there is a lot of life\nout there besides distributed or singleuser \"Workstations\"!", "A couple of months ago I tried out a Hercules Graphite card. A pretty nice\nboard. Fairly fast, and seemed quite compatible -- even seemed to handle the\nSVGA modes I have whined about here on occasion. At the time I was just\nbuying a VLB system, so after checking out the card I sent it back. I wanted\na VLB card, and purchased a Fahrenheit VLB card. This card is fairly fast,\nwill do 70 Hz refresh at 1024x768, but is not compatible with my CD-ROMS\n(the SVGA thing -- I think; I have merely conjectured that is the cause of\nan old graphics board being able to run in a higher resolution with those\nprograms than the modern boards I have tried. I have not gotten a straight\nanswer out of anybody...). The monitor I am using it with is a 17\" Magnavox,\nwhich also tops out at 1024x768x70 Hz so its really a pretty good match.\n\nBut...\n\nThat is for my wife. I just purchased a Viewsonic 17 for myself, and am\nlooking for a graphics card to drive it. I want > 70Hz refresh,\nand would really like it to handle my CD-Roms. I tried the Orchid P9000,\nwhich did neither of those things (though Robert at Wietek did say that the\nto Hercules. They were supposed to be coming out with a VLB version of the\nGraphite around the end of March. I have heard precisely ZERO about it since\nthen. Does anyone know if the card was actually released, and what capabilities\n(and price) it has?\n\nAny info would be most appreciated.\n", "\n\nJust a thought on resources, It is very important if you do use a\nmultiplatform toolkit to check on how it uses resources. I have\nused Glockenspeil commonview under Motif and OS2. I wrote a resource\nconverter from OS2 to Motif, but it really wasn't too easy, especially\nthe naming scheme. In Motif you cannot rename controls/widgets.\nWith windows you can call the OK button ID_OK in every instance,\nthis doesn't work for Motif, you'd have to call it Dialog1_OK,\nand Motif expects a text string rather than a number. So \nyour constructor should know how to convert a #define into the\nproper resource identifier.\nI'd check on how the toolkit expects names, and that if it does\nuse resources, that is uses resources for all platforms you intend to\nport to. ( By the way, I would never use CommonView or Glockenspiel\nfor anything ) \n\n\n\nAlex.\n\n", "Hi there!\n\nWhat is your recommendation for a good hard-disk driver software for\nnon-Apple drives? I would mainly need it for a SyQuest removable media\ndrive, but maybe for some normal drives too.\nI have heard and seen good things about SilverLining, but don't know\nany competitors. It does not need to be fancy, filled with features...\nI more like it affordable.\n\nThanks\n", "about\nthem on\n\nActually, I thought Macs were suppoused to be restarted once a day.\n--\nJim Smyton (smytonj@alleg.edu) ", "Can anybody send CONNER CP-321 harddisk specifications?\nIt has 612 Cyl, and 4 HD, but I am more intrested in its time-out values, \nprecomp, etc.", "Does anyone know of a site where I could ftp some RenderMan shaders?\nOr of a newsgroup which has discussion or information about RenderMan? I'm\nnew to the RenderMan (Mac) family, and I'd like to get as much info I can\nlay my hands on. Thanks!\n\n Andy Bates.\n\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\nAndy Bates.", "\nA 1 of 4 decoder need not be the same as a 1 to 4 demultiplexer, although\nmany commercial SSI implementations allow you to use one as such. Strictly,\na 1 of 4 decoder need only take two lines in and make one output change\nstate, according to the inputs.\n\nA demux, on the other hand, uses two control inputs to determine which\nof four outputs will reflect the state of the input signal. So there are\nthree inputs required.\n\nA decoder can be used as a demux if it is equipped with an output enable\ninput, since this can be used as the data input (e.g. when high, all\noutputs are high; when low, only the selected (by control inputs) output\nwill be low).\n\nAn eight way decoder is created by using the high order bit (bit 2) to\nselect which of two four way demuxes is enabled. Thus you achieve your\naim of having only one output of eight reflecting the input bits. Note\nthat this method cannot be used to create a true eight way demux, since\nyou have no data input (the enable line on a four way decoder) left\nonce you commit the enable lines to their intended purpose.\n\nA sixteen way decoder obviously requires four, four-way decoders, plus\na mechanism to enable only one of the four at a time. Therefore, use\nthe fifth decoder, attached to the two high order bits, to provide the\nfour enable lines.\n\nOf course, the two low order bits must be connected in parallel to the\nfour final stage decoders.\n\nPlease give me the credit when you submit your homework.\n\nJohnH\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n | _ |_ _ |_| _ _| _| Electronics Department\n |_| (_) | | | | | | (_| (_| (_| \\/ School of MPCE\n ---------------------------------/- Macquarie University\n Sydney, AUSTRALIA 2109\n\n Email: johnh@mpce.mq.edu.au, Ph: +61 2 805 8959, Fax: +61 2 805 8983\n", "\n I think it's known, but it's neat.\n\n Can it be extended to 3D?", "\nOf course, they then turn up the REverb, the Gain, add in the analog\ndelay line and the Fuzz box. I'd think they wouldn't notice the\ndistortion. Oh I forgot the phase shifters.\n\n\n\nAh, but how do they compare to Mechanical systems :-)", "\n\nNot a typo. It was uploaded to ftp.cica.indiana.edu a couple days back.\n\n\nVersion 3.4 uses standard Windows printer drivers.\n\nAshok\n", "Counterpoint SA-12\n\n85watts per channel\nvery very warm tube sound, great for warming up CDs\nExcellent shape", "Archive-name: graphics/resources-list/part2\nLast-modified: 1993/04/27\n\n\nComputer Graphics Resource Listing : WEEKLY POSTING [ PART 2/3 ]\n===================================================\nLast Change : 27 April 1993\n\n\n14. Plotting packages\n=====================\n\nGnuplot 3.2\n-----------\n It is one of the best 2- and 3-D plotting packages, with\n online help.It's a command-line driven interactive function plotting utility\n for UNIX, MSDOS, Amiga, Archimedes, and VMS platforms (at least!).\n Freely distributed, it supports many terminals, plotters, and printers\n and is easily extensible to include new devices.\n It was posted to comp.sources.misc in version 3.0, plus 2 patches.\n You can practically find it everywhere (use Archie to find a site near you!).\n The comp.graphics.gnuplot newsgroup is devoted to discussion of Gnuplot.\n\nXvgr and Xmgr (ACE/gr)\n-----------------------\n Xmgr is an XY-plotting tool for UNIX workstations using\n X or OpenWindows. There is an XView version called xvgr for\n Suns. Collectively, these 2 tools are known as ACE/gr.\n Compiling xmgr requires the Motif toolkit version 1.1\n and X11R4 - xmgr will not compile under X11R3/Motif 1.0x.\n\n Check at ftp.ccalmr.ogi.edu [129.95.72.34} in\n /CCALMR/pub/acegr/xmgr-2.09.tar.Z (Motif version)\n /CCALMR/pub/acegr/xvgr-2.09.tar.Z (XView version)\n\n Comments, suggestions, bug reports to Paul J Turner\n (if mail fails, try pturner@ese.ogi.edu).\n Due to time constraints, replies will be few and far between.\n\nRobot\n-----\n Release 0.45 : 2-D and limited 3-D. Based on XView 3, written\n in C / Fortran (so you need a Fortran compiler or the f2c translator).\n Mainly tested on Sun4, less on DECstations. Check at\n ftp.astro.psu.edu (128.118.147.28), pub/astrod.\n\nVG plotting library\n-------------------\n This is a library of Fortran callable routines at sunspot.ceee.nist.gov\n [129.6.64.151]\n\nXgobi\n-----\n It's being developed at Bellcore, and its speciality are\n multidimensional data sets analysis and exploration. You can call it\n from the S language also, and it works as an X11 client using the Athena\n widget set (or with an ASCII terminal). It's distributed free of charge\n from STATLIB at CMU.\n To get it via e-mail, send email to statlib@temper.stat.cmu.edu and\n in the body area of the message, put the line\n\n send xgobi from general\n\n If you want to pick it via ftp, connect to lib.stat.cmu.edu. Log in as\n \"statlib\" and use your e-mail address as your password. Then type\n\n cd general\n mget xgobi.*\n\n Warning: It's about 2 MB sources + large Postscript manual. Read the\n relevant README to decide whether you need it or not.\n\nPGPLOT\n------\n Runs on VAX/VMS and supposedly on UNIX. It's a set of fortran routines freely\n available (though copyrighted and requiring a nominal fee of $50 or so)\n that includes contour plots and support for various devices, including ps.\n Contact tjp@deimos.caltech.edu\n\nGGRAPH\n------\n Host shorty.cs.wisc.edu [128.105.2.8] : /pub/ggraph.tar.Z\n Unknown more details.\n\nepiGRAPH\n--------\n For PCs. Call dvj@lab2.phys.lgu.spb.su (Vladimir J. Dmitriev) for details.\n You can get the program demo or (and) play version, if sent 10 $ to\n\n 1251 Budapest posta fiok 60\n Hungary\n ph/fax 1753696 Budapest\n ph 2017760\n\nMultiplot XLN\n-------------\n For Amigas, shareware ($30 USD, #20 UK or $40 Aust.). Advanced 2D package\n that has a big list of features. Contact:\n\n Dr. Alan Baxter ,\n Cambridge University\n Department of Pathology,\n Tennis Court Road,\n Cambridge CB2 1QP, UK\n\n\nAthena Plotter Widget set\n-------------------------\n \n This version V6.0 is based on Gregory Bond's version V5-beta. Added\n some stuff for scientific graphs, i.e. log axes, free scalable axes,\n XY-lineplots and some more, and re-added plotter callbacks from V4, e.g.\n to request the current pointer position, or to cut off a rectangle from the\n plotting area for zooming-in. Version V6.0 has a log of bugs fixed and a\n log of improvements against V6-beta. Additionally I did some other\n changes/extensions, besides \n \n - Origin and frame lines for axes.\n - Subgrid lines on subtic positions.\n - Line plots in different line types (lines, points, lines+points,\n impulses, lines+impulses, steps, bars), line styles (solid, dotted,\n dashed, dot-dashed) and marker types for data points.\n - Legend at the right or left hand side of the plot.\n - Optional drawing to a pixmap instead of a window.\n - Layout callback for aligning axis positions when using\n multiple plotters in one application.\n \n Available at export.lcs.mit.edu, directory contrib/plotter\n\nSciPlot\n-------\n SciPlot is a scientific 2D plotting and manipulation program. \n For the NeXT (requires NeXTStep 3.0), and it's shareware.\n\n Features:\n ASCII import and export; EPS export; copy, cut, paste with data buffer;\n free number of data points, data buffer, and document window;\n selective open and save ; plotting in many styles; automatic legend;\n subviews; linear and logarithmic axes; two different axes; text and graphic;\n color support; zoom; normalizing and moving; axis conversions;\n free hand data manipulations (cut, edit, move, etc.); data editor; sorting\n of data; absolute,relative, and free defined error bars;\n calculating with buffers (+, -, *, / ); background subtractions\n (linear,shirley,tougaard, bezier); integration and relative integration;\n fitting of one or more free defined functions; linear regression;\n calculations (+, -, *, /, sin, cos, log, etc.); function generator;\n spline interpolation; least square smooth and FFT smooth; differentiation;\n FFT; ESCA calculations and database; .. and something more \n\n You can find it on:\n ftp.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.7] : /pub/NeXT/science/SciPlot3.1.tar.Z\n\n Author:\n Michael Wesemann\n Scillerstr. 73,1000 Berlin 12, Germany \n mike@fiasko.rz-berlin.mpg.de\n\nPLPLOT\n------\n PLPLOT is a scientific plotting package for many systems, small (micro)\n and large (super) alike. Despite its small size and quickness,\n it has enough power to satisfy most users, including:\n standard x-y plots, semilog plots, log-log plots, contour plots, 3D plots,\n mesh plots, bar charts and pie charts. Multiple graphs (of the same or\n different sizes) may be placed on a single page with multiple lines in each\n graph. Different line styles, widths and colors are supported. A virtually\n infinite number of distinct area fill patterns may be used. There are\n almost 1000 characters in the extended character set. This includes four\n different fonts, the Greek alphabet and a host of mathematical, musical, and\n other symbols. The fonts can be scaled to any size for various effects.\n Many different output device drivers are available (system dependent),\n including a portable metafile format and renderer.\n \n Freely available (but copyrighted) via anonymous FTP on\n hagar.ph.utexas.edu, directory pub/plplot\n \n At present (v. 4.13), PLPLOT is known to work on the following systems:\n \n Unix: SunOS, A/IX, HP-UX, Unicos, DG/UX, Ultrix\n Other platforms: VMS, Amiga/Exec, MS-DOS, OS/2, NeXT\n \n Authors: Many. The main supporters are:\n \n Maurice LeBrun : PLPLOT kernel and the metafile,\n xterm, xwindow, tektronix, and Amiga drivers.\n Geoff Furnish : MS-DOS and OS/2 drivers\n Tony Richardson : PLPLOT on the NeXT\n\nSuperMongo\n----------\n 2-D plotting package at CMU, filename ~re00/tmp/SM.2.1.0.tar.Z\n (probably under the ftp.cmu.edu or andrew.cmu.edu machines?)\n\nGLE\n---\n GLE is a high quality graphics package for scientists. It runs on a\n variety of platforms (PCs, VAXes, and Unix) with drivers for XWindows,\n REGIS, TEK4010, PC graphics cards, VT100s, HP plotters, Postscript\n printers, Epson-compatible printers and Laserjet/Paintjet printers. It\n provides LaTEX quality fonts, as well as full support for Postscript\n fonts. The graphing module provides full control over all features of\n graphs. The graphics primitives include user-defined subroutines for\n complex pictures and diagrams.\n\n Accompanying utilities include Surface (for hidden line surface\n plotting), Contour (for contour plots), Manip (for manipulation of\n columnar data files), and Fitls (for fitting arbitrary equations to\n data).\n\n+ Available via anon. FTP at these places:\n+\n+ PC gle: SIMTEL, wuarchive.wustl.edu, and other mirrors, msdos/graphics/gle*.*\n+ UNIX gle: zephyr.grace.cri.nz (131.203.1.5), pub/gle/unix\n+ VMS gle: zephyr.grace.cri.nz (131.203.1.5), pub/gle/vms\n\n Mailing list: GLEList. Send a message to\n\n listserver@tbone.biol.scarolina.edu, with a message boyd containing\n\n sub glelist \"Your Name\"\n \n maintainer: Dean Pentcheff \n\n==========================================================================\n\n15. Image analysis software - Image processing and display\n==========================================================\n\nPC and Mac-based tools (multi-platform software)\n======================\n\nIMDISP\n------\n IMDISP Written at JPL and other NASA sites. Can do simple display,\n enhancing, smoothing and so on. Works with the FITS and VICAR/PDS\n data formats of NASA. Can read TIFF images, if you know their dimensions\n [PC and Macs]\n\nLabVIEW 2\n---------\n LabVIEW is used as a framework for image processing tools. It provides a\n graphical programming environment using block diagram sketch is the\n \"program\" with graphical elements representing the programming elements.\n Hundreds of functions are already available and are connected using a\n wiring tool to create the block diagram (program). Functions that the\n block diagrams represent include digital signal processing and\n filtering, numerical analysis, statistics, etc. The tool allows any\n Virtual Instrument (VI, a software file that looks and acts like a real\n laboratory instrument) to be used as a part of any other virtual\n instrument.\n\n National Instruments markets plug-in digital signal processing (DSP)\n boards for Macintoshs and PC compatables that allow real-time\n acquisition and analysis at a personal computer. New software tools for\n DSP are allowing engineers to harness the power of this technology. The\n tools range from low-level debugging software to high-level block\n diagram development software. There are three levels of DSP programming\n associated with the NB-DSP2300 board and LabVIEW:\n Use of the NB-DSP2300 Analysis Library: FFTs, power spectra, filters\n routines callable from THINK C and Macintosh Programers Workshop (MPW) C\n that execute on the NB-DSP2300 board. There is an analysis Virtual\n Interface Library of ready-to-use VIs optimized for the NB-DSP2300.\n\n Use of the National Instruments Developers Toolkit that includes an\n optimizing C compiler, an assembler and a linker for low-level\n programming of the DSP hardware. This approach offers the highest level\n of performance but is the must difficult in terms of ease of use.\n\n Use of the National Instruments Interface Kit software package which has\n utility functions for memory management data communications and\n downloading code to the NB-DSP2300 board. (This is the easiest route for\n the development of custom code.)\n\nUltimage Concept VI\n-------------------\n Concept VI by Graftek-France is a family of image processing Virtual\n Instruments (VIs) that give LabVIEW 2 (described above) users high-end\n tools for designing, integrating and monitoring imaging control systems.\n A VI is a software file that looks and acts like a real laboratory\n instrument. Typical applications for Concept VI include thermography,\n surveillance, machine vision, production testing, biomedical imaging,\n electronic microscopy and remote sensing.\n\n Ultimage Concept VI addresses applications which require further\n qualitative and quantitative analysis. It includes a complete set of\n functions for image enhancement, histogram equalization, spatial and\n frequency filtering, isolation of features, thresholding, mathematical\n morphology analysis, density measurement, object counting, sizing and\n characterization.\n\n The program loads images with a minimum resolution of 64 by 64, a pixel\n depth of 8, 16, or 32 bits, and one image plane. Standard input and\n output formats include PICT, TIFF, SATIE, and AIPD. Other formats can\n be imported.\n\n Image enhancement features include lookup table transformations, spatial\n linear and non-linear filters, frequency filtering, arithmetic and logic\n operations, and geometric transformations, among others. Morphological\n transformations include erosion, dilation, opening, closing, hole\n removal, object separation, and extraction of skeletons, among others.\n Quantitative analysis provides for objects' detection, measurement, and\n morphological distribution. Measures include area, perimeter, center of\n gravity, moment of inertia, orientation, length of relevant chords, and\n shape factors and equivalence. Measures are saved in ASCII format. The\n program also provides for macro scripting and integration of custom\n modules.\n\n A 3-D view command plots a perspective data graph where image intensity\n is depicted as mountains or valleys in the plot. The histogram tool can\n be plotted with either a linear or logarithmic scale. The twenty-eight\n arithmetic and logical operations provide for: masking and averaging\n sections of images, noise removal, making comparisons, etc. There are\n 13 spatial filters that alter pixel intensities based on local\n intensity. These include high-pass filters for contrast and outlines.\n The frequency data resulting from FFT analysis can be displayed as\n either the (real , imaginary ) components or the (phase, magnitude)\n data. The morphological transformations are useful for data sharpening\n and defining objects or for removing artifacts.\n\n The transformations include: thresholding, eroding, dilating and even\n hole filling.\n\n The program's quantitative analysis measurements include: area,\n perimeter, center of mass, object counts, and angle between points.\n\n GTFS, Inc. 2455 Bennett Valley Road #100C Santa Rosa, CA 95494\n 707-579-1733\n\nIPLab Spectrum\n--------------\n IPLAB Spectrum supports image processing and analysis but lacks the\n morphology and quantitative analysis features provided by\n Graftek-FranceUs Ultimage Concept VI. Using scripting tools, the user\n tells the system the operations to be performed. The problem is that far\n too many basic operations require manual intervention. The tool\n supports: FFTs, 16 arithmetic operations for pixel alteration, and a\n movie command for cycling through windows.\n\n\nMacintosh-based tools\n=====================\n\nNCSA Image, NCSA PalEdit and more\n---------------------------------\n NCSA provides a whole suite of public-domain visualization tools for the\n Macintosh, primarily aimed at researchers wanting to visualize results\n from numerical modelling calculations. These applications,\n documentation, and source code are available for anonymous ftp from\n ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu. Commercial versions of the NCSA programs have been\n developed by Spyglass.\n\n Spyglass, Inc. 701 Devonshire Drive Champaign, IL 61820 (217) 355-6000\n fax: 217 355 8925\n\nNIH IMAGE\n---------\n Available at alw.nih.gov (128.231.128.7) or (preferably)\n zippy.nimh.nih.gov [128.231.98.32], directory:/pub/image.\n It has painting and image manipulation tools, a macro language,\n tools for measuring areas, distances and angles, and for counting\n things. Using a frame grabber card, it can record sequences of\n images to be played back as a movie. It can invoke user-defined\n convolution matrix filters, such as Gaussian. It can import raw\n data in tab-delimited ASCII, or as 1 or 2-byte quantities. It also\n does histograms and even 3-D plots. It is limited to 8-bits/pixel,\n though the 8 bits map into a color lookup table. It runs on any Mac\n that has a 256-color screen and a FPU (or get the NonFPU version\n from zippy.nimh.nih.gov)\n\nPhotoMac\n--------\n Data Translation, Inc. 100 Locke Dr. Marlboro, MA 01752 508-481-3700\n\nPhotoPress\n----------\n Blue Solutions 3039 Marigold Place Thousand Oaks, CA 91360 805-492-9973\n\nPixelTools and TCL-Image\n------------------------\n \"Complete family of PixelTools (hardware accelerator and applications\n software) for scientific image processing and analysis. Video-rate\n capture, display, processing, and analysis of high-resolution\n monochromatic and color images. Includes C source code.\"\n\nTCL-Image:\n \"Software package for scientific, quantitative image processing and\n analysis. It provides a complete language for the capture, enhancement,\n and extraction of quantitative information from gray-scale images.\n TCL_Image has over 200 functions for image processing, and contains the\n other elements needed in a full programming language for algorithm\n development -- variables and control structures. It is easily\n extensible through \"script\" (or indirect command) files. These script\n files are simply text files that contain TCL-Image commands. They are\n executed as normal commands and include the ability to pass parameters.\n The direct capture of video images is supported via popular frame\n grabber boards. TCL-Image comes with the I-View utility that provides\n conversion between common image file types, such as PICT2 and TIFF.\"\n\n Perceptics 725 Pellissippi Parkway Knoxville, TN 37933 615-966-9200\n\nSatellite Image Workshop\n------------------------\n It comes with a number of satellite pictures (raw data) and does all\n sorts of image enhancing on it. You'll need at least a Mac II with co-\n processor; a 256 color display and a large harddisk. The program doesn't\n run under system 7.x.ATE1 V1\n\n In the documentation the contact address is given as: Liz Smith, Jet\n Propulsion Laboratory, MS 300-323, 4800 Oak Grove Dr,.Pasadena, CA 91109\n (818) 354-6980\n\nVisualization Workbench\n-----------------------\n \"An electronic imaging software system that performs interactive image\n analysis and scientific 2D and 3D plotting.\"\n\n Paragon Imagine 171 Lincoln St. Lowell, MA 01852 508-441-2112\n\nAdobe Photoshop\n---------------\n\n The tool supports Rtrue colorS with 24-bit images or 256 levels of grey\n scale. Once an image has been imported it can be Rre-touchedS with\n various editing tools typical of those used in Macintosh-based RpaintS\n applications. These include an eraser, pencil, brush and air brush.\n Advanced RpasteS tools that control the interaction between a pasted\n selection and the receiving site have also been incorporated. For\n example, all red pixels in a selection can easily be preventing from\n being pasted. Photoshop has transparencies ranging from 0 to 100%,\n allowing you to create ghost overlays. RPhoto-editingS tools include\n control of the brightness and contrast, color balancing, hue/saturation\n modification and spectrum equalization. Images can be subjected to\n various signal processing algorithms to smooth or sharpen the image,\n blur edges, or locate edges. Image scaling is also supported.\n\n For storage savings, the images can be compressed using standard\n algorithms, including externally supplied compression such as JPEG,\n availlable from Storm Technologies. The latest version of Adobe\n Photoshop supports the import of numerous image formats including: EPSF,\n EPSF, TIFF, PICT resource, Amiga IFF/ILBM, CompuServe GIF, MacPaint,\n PIXAR, PixelPaint, Scitex CT, TGA and ThunderScan..\n\n Adobe Systems, Inc. 1585 Charlestown Road PO Box 7900 Mountain View, CA\n 94039-7900 415-961-4400\n\nColorStudio and ImageStudio\n---------------------------\n ColorStudio is an image-editing and paint package from Letraset that has\n more features than Adobe Photoshop but is decidedly more complex and\n therefore more difficult to use. Several steps are often required to\n accomplish that which can be done in a single step using Photoshop. The\n application requires a great deal of available disk space as one can\n easily end up with images in the 30 MB range. The program provides a\n variety of powerful selection tools including the \"auto selection tool\"\n which lets the user choose image areas on the basis of color, close\n hues, color range and mask.\n\nImageStudio: Don't know...\n\n Letraset USA 40 Eisenhower Drive Paramus, NJ 07653 201-845-6100\n\nDapple Systems\n--------------\n \"High resolution image analysis software provides processing tools to\n work with multiple images, enhance and edit, and measure a variety of\n global or feature parameters, and interpret the data.\"\n\n Dapple Systems, 355 W. Olive Ave, #100 Sunnyvale, CA 94086 408-733-3283\n\nDigital Darkroom\n----------------\n The latest release of Digital Darkroom has five new selection and\n editing tools for enhancing images. One such feature allows the user to\n select part of an image simply by \"painting\" it. A new polyline\n selection tool creates a selection tool for single pixel wide\n selections. A brush lets the operator \"paint\" with a selected portion\n of the image. Note that this is not a true color image enhancement tool.\n This tool should be used when the user intends to operate in grey-scale\n images only. It should be noted that Digital Darkroom is not as\n powerful as either Adobe Photoshop or ColorStudio.\n\n Silicon Beach Software 9770 Carroll Ctr. Rd., Suite J San Diego, CA\n 92126 619-695-6956\n\nDimple\n------\n It is compatible with system 6.05 and system 7.0 , requires Mac LC or\n II series with 256 colours, with a recommended min of 6Mb of ram. It has\n the capability of reading Erdas files. Functions include; image\n enhancement, 3D and contour plots, image statistics, supervised and\n unsupervised classification, PCA and other image transformations. There\n is also a means (Image Operation Language or IOL) by which you can write\n your own transformations. There is no image rectification, however\n Dimple is compatable with MAPII. The latest version is 1.4 and it is in\n the beta stage of testing. Dimple was initially developed as a teaching\n tool and it is very good for this purpose.\"\n\n \"Dimple runs on a colour Macintosh. It is a product still in its\n development phase.. i.e. it doesn't have all the inbuilt features of\n other packages, but is coming along nicely. It has its own inbuilt\n language for writing \"programs\" for processing an image, defining\n convolution filters etc. Dimple is a full mac application with pull down\n menus etc... It is unprotected software.\"\n\n Process Software Solutions, PO Box 2110, Wollongong, New South Wales,\n Australia. 2500. Phone 61 42 261757 Fax 61 42 264190.\n\nEnhance\n-------\n Enhance has a RrulerS tool that supports measurements and additionally\n provides angle data. The tool has over 80 mathematical filter\n variations: \"Laplacian, medium noise filter\", etc. Files can be saved\n as either TIFF, PICT, EPSF or text (however EPSF files can't be imported).\n\n MicroFrontier 7650 Hickman Road Des Moines, IA 50322 515-270-8109\n\nImage Analyst\n-------------\n An image processing product for users who need to extract quantitative\n data from video images. Image Analyst lets users configure\n sophisticated image processing and measurement routines without the\n necessity of knowing a programming language. It is designed for such\n tasks at computing number and size of cells in images projected by video\n cameras attached to microscopes, or enhancing and measuring distances in\n radiographs.\n\n Image Analyst provides users with an array of field-proven video\n analysis techniques that enable them to easily assemble a sequence of\n instructions to enhance feature appearance; count objects; determine\n density, shape, size, position, or movement; perform object feature\n extraction; and conduct textural analysis automatically. Image Analyst\n works with either a framegrabber board and any standard video camera, or\n a disk-stored image.\n\n Within minutes, without the need for programming, the Image Analyst user\n can set up a process to identify and analyze any element of a image.\n Measurements and statistics can be automatically or semi-automatically\n generated from TIFF or PICT files or from captured video tape images.\n Image Analyst recognizes items in images based on their size, shape and\n position. The tool provides direct support for the Data Translation and\n Scion frame grabbers. A menu command allows for image capture from a VCR\n video camera or other NTSC or PAL devices.\n\n There are 2 types of files, the image itself and the related Sequence\n file that holds the processing, measurements and analysis that the user\n defines. Automated sequences are set up in Regions Of Interest (ROI)\n represented by movable, sizable boxes atop the image. Inside a ROI, the\n program can find the distance between two edges, the area of a shape,\n the thickness of a wall, etc. Image Analyst finds the center, edge and\n other positions automatically. The application also provides tools so\n that the user can work interactively to find the edge of object. It also\n supports histograms and a color look-up table (CLUT) tool.\n\n Automatix, Inc. 775 Middlesex Turnpike Billerica, MA 01821 508-667-7900\n\nIPLab\n-----\n Signal Analytics Corp. 374 Maple Ave. E Vienna, VA 22180 703-281-3277\n FAX 703-281-2509\n\n \"Menu-driven image processing software that supports 24-bit color or\n pseudocolor/grayscale image display and manipulation.\"\n\nMAP II\n------\n Among the Mac GIS systems, MAP II distributed by John Wiley has\n integrated image analysis.\n\nIMAGE\n-----\n from Stanford : Try anonymous ftp from sumex-aim.stanford.edu\n It has pd source for image v2, and ready to run code for a mac under\n image v3.\n\n\n\nWindows/DOS PC-based tools\n==========================\n\nCCD\n---\n Richard Berry's CCD imaging book for Willamon-Bell contains (optional?)\n disks with image manipulating software. Source code is included.\n\nERDAS\n-----\n \"ERDAS will do all of the things you want: rectification,\n classification, transformations (canned & user-defined), overlays,\n filters, contrast enhancement, etc. ... I was using it on my thesis &\n then changed the topic a bit & that work became secondary.\"\n\n ERDAS, Inc. 2801 Buford Highway Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30329 404-248-9000\n FAX 404-248-9400\n\nRSVGA\n-----\n \"I have been getting up to speed on a program called RSVGA available from\n Eidetic Digital Image Ltd. in British Columbia. Its for IBM PC's or\n clones, cheap (about $400) and does all the stuff Erdas does but is not\n as fast or as powerful, though I have had only limited experience with\n Erdas. I have used RSVGA with 6 of 7 Landsat bands and it is a good\n starter program except for the obtuse manual\"\n\nIMAGINE-32\n----------\n It's a 32 bit package [I suppose for PCs] called \"Imagine32\"\n or \"Image32\" The program does a modest amount of image processing --add,\n subtract, multiply, divide, display, and plot an x or y cut across the image.\n It can also display a number of images simultaneously.\n The company is CompuScope, in Santa Barbara, CA. \n\nPC Vista\n--------\n It was announced in the 1989 August edition of PASP. It is known to\n be available from Mike Richmond, whose email addresses have been\n\n\trichmond@bllac.berkeley.edu\n\trichmond@bkyast.berkeley.edu\n\n and his s-mail address is:\n\n Michael Richmond,Astronomy Department, Campbell Hall, Berkeley, CA 94720\n\n The latest version of PC-Vista, version 1.7, includes not only the source\n code and help files, but also a complete set of executable programs and\n a number of sample FITS images. If you do wish to use the source code,\n you will need Microsoft C, version 5.0 or later; other compilers may work,\n but will require substantial modifications.\n\n To receive the documentation and nine double-density (360K) floppies\n (or three quad-density 3-1/2 inch floppies (1.44M) with everything on them,\n just send a request for PC-Vista, together with your name and a US-Mail\n address, to \n\n\tOffice of Technology Licensing\n\t2150 Shattuck Ave., Suite 510\n\tBerkeley, Ca. 94704\n\n Include a check (Traveller's Checks are fine) or purchase order for $150.00\n in U.S. dollars, if your address is inside the continental U.S., or $165.00\n otherwise, made out to Regents of the University of California\n to cover duplication and mailing costs.\n\n\nSOFTWARE TOOLS\n--------------\n It's a set of software \"tools\" put out by Canyon State\n Systems and Software. They are not free, but rather cheap at about $30 I\n heard. It will handle most all of the formats used by frame grabber\n software. \n\nMIRAGE\n------\n It's image processing software written by Jim Gunn at the\n Astrophysics Dept at Princeton. It will run on a PC among other platforms.\n It is a Forth based system - i.e. a Forth language with many image\n processing displaying functions built in. \n\nDATA TRANSLATION SOURCE BOOK\n----------------------------\n The Data Translation company in Massachusetts publishes a free book\n containing vendors of data analysis hardware and software which is\n compatible with Data Translation and other frame grabbers.\n Surely you can find much more PC-related stuff in it.\n\nMAXEN386\n--------\n A couple of Canadians have written a program named MAXEN386 which does\n maximum entropy image deconvolution. Their company is named Digital\n Signal Processing Software, or something like that, and the software is\n mentioned in an article in Astronomy Magazine, either Jan or Feb 92\n (an article on CCD's vs film). \n\nJANDEL SCIENTIFIC (JAVA)\n------------------------\n Another software package (JAVA) is put out by Jandel Scientific. \n Jandel Scientific, 65 Koch Road, Corte Madera, CA 94925, (415) 924-8640,\n (800) 874-1888.\n\nMicrobrian\n----------\n Runs on an MS dos platform and uses a 32 bit graphics card\n (Vista), or an about to be released version will support a number of\n super VGA cards. Its a full blown remote sensed data processing\n system.. It is menu driven (character based screen), but is does not use\n a windowed user interface. Its is hardware protected with a dongle.\n Mbrian = micro Barrier reef Image Anaysis System. It was developed by\n CSIRO (Commonwealth Scientific & Industrial Organization) and is\n marketed/ supported by:\n\n MPA Australia (51 Lusher Road, Croydon, Victoria\n tel + 61 3 724 4488 fax +61 3 724 4455)\n\n There are educational and commercial prices, but be prepared to set\n aside $A10k for the first educational licence. Subsequent ones come\n cheaper (they need to!) It has installed sites worldwide. It is widely\n used at ANU.\n\nMicroImage\n----------\n The remote sensing lab here at Dartmouth currently uses Terra-Mar's\n MicroImage, on 486 PCs with some fancy display hardware.\n\n Terra-Mar Resource Information Services, Inc.\n\n 1937 Landings Drive Mountain View, CA 94043 415-964-6900 FAX\n 415-964-5430\n\nUnix-based tools\n================\n\nIRAF (Image Reduction and Analysis Facility)\n--------------------------------------------\n Developed in the National Optical Astronomy Observatory, Kitt Peak AZ\n It is free, you can ftp it from tucana.noao.edu [140.252.1.1]\n and complement it with STSDAS from stsci.edu [130.167.1.2].\n Email to iraf@noao.edu for more details.\n Apparently this is one of the _de facto_ standards in the astronomical\n image community. They issue a newsletter also.\n They seem to support very well their users. Works with VMS also last\n I heard, and practically has its own shell on top of the VMS/Unix shells.\n\n It's suggested that you get a copy of saoimage for display under X windows.\n Very flexible/extendable -- tons (literally 3 linear feet) of\n documentation for the general user, skilled user, and programmer.\n\nALV\n---\n A Sun-specific image toolkit. Version 2.0.6 posted to\n comp.sources.sun on 11dec89. Also available via email to\n alv-users-request@cs.bris.ac.uk.\n\nAIPS\n----\n Astronomical Image Processing System. Contact: aipsmail@nrao.edu\n (also see the UseNet Newsgroups alt.sci.astro.aips and sci.astro.fits)\n Built by NRAO (National Radio Astronomy Observatory, HQ in Charlottesville,\n VA, sites in NM, AZ, WV). Software distributed by 9-track, Exabyte, DAT,\n or (non-anonymous) internet ftp. Documentation (PostScript mostly)\n available via anonymous ftp to baboon.cv.nrao.edu (192.33.115.103),\n directory pub/aips and pub/aips/TEXT/PUBL. Installation requires building\n the system and thus a Fortran and C compiler.\n This package can read and write FITS data (see sci.astro.fits), and is\n primarily for reduction, analysis, and image enhancement of Radio Astronomy\n data from radio telescopes, particularly the Very Large Array (VLA), a\n synthesis instrument. It consists of almost 300 programs that do everything\n from copying data to sophisticated deconvolution, e.g. via maximum entropy.\n There is an X11-based Image tool (XAS) and a tek-compatible xterm-based\n graphics tool built into AIPS. The XAS tool is modelled after the hardware\n functionality of the International Imaging Systems model 70 display unit and\n can do image arithmetic, etc.\n The code is mostly Fortran 77 with some system C language modules, and is\n available for Suns, IBM RS/6000, Dec/Ultrix, Convex, Cray (Unicos), and\n Alliant with support planned for HP-9000/7xx, Solaris 2.1, and maybe SGI.\n There is currently a project - \"AIPS++\" - underway to rewrite the\n algorithmic functionality of AIPS in a modern setting, using C++ and an\n object oriented approach. Whereas AIPS is proprietary code (licensed for\n free to non-profit institutions) owner by NRAO and the NSF, AIPS++ will be\n in the public domain at some level, as it is an international effort with\n contributions from the US, Canada, England, the Netherlands, India, and\n Australia to name a few. \n\nLABOimage\n---------\n (version 4.0 is out for X11) It's written in C, and currently\n runs on Sun 3/xxx, Sun 4/xxx (OS3.5, 4.0 and 4.0.3) under SunView.\n The expert system for image segmentation is written in Allegro Common Lisp.\n It was used on the following domains: computer science (image analysis), \n medicine, biology, physics. It is distributed free of charge (source code).\n Available via anonymous FTP at ftp.ads.com (128.229.30.16), in\n pub/VISION-LIST-ARCHIVE/SHAREWARE/LaboImage_*\n\n Contact: Prof. Thierry Pun, Computer Vision Group Computing Science Center,\n U-Geneva 12, rue du Lac, CH-1207 Geneva SWITZERLAND\n Phone : +41(22) 787 65 82; fax: +41(22) 735 39 05\n E-mail: pun@cui.unige.ch or pun@cgeuge51.bitnet\n\n\nFigaro\n------\n It was originally made for VMS, and can be obtained from\n Keith Shortridge in Australia (ks@aaoepp.aao.gov.au)\n and for Unix from Sam Southard at Caltech (sns@deimos.caltech.edu).\n It's about 110Mbytes on a Sun.\n\nKHOROS\n------\n Moved to the Scientific Visualization category below\n\nVista\n-----\n The \"real thing\" is available via anonymous ftp from lowell.edu. Email to\n vista@lowell.edu for more details. Total size less than 20Mbytes.\n\nDISIMP\n------\n (Device Independent Software for Image Processing) is a powerful\n system providing both user friendliness and high functionality in\n interactive times.\n\n Feature Description\n\n DISIMP incorporates a rich library of image processing utilities and\n spatial data options. All functions can be easily accessed via the\n DISIMP executive. This menu is modular in design and groups image\n processes by their function. Such a logical structure means that\n complicated processes are simply a progression through a series of\n modules.\n\n Processes include image rectification, classification (unsupervised and\n supervised), intensity transformations, three dimensional display and\n Principal Component Analysis. DISIMP also supports the more simple and\n effective enhancement techniques of filtering, band subtraction and\n ratioing.\n\n Host Configuration Requirements\n\n Running on UNIX workstations, DISIMP is capable of processing the more\n computational intensive techniques in interactive processing times.\n DISIMP is available in both Runtime and Programmer's environments. Using\n the Programmers environment, utilities can be developed for specific\n applications programs.\n\n Graphics are governed by an icon-based Display Panel which allows quick\n enhancments of a displayed image. Manipulations of Look Up Tables,\n colour stretches, changes to histograms, zooming and panning can be\n interactively driven through this control.\n\n A range of geographic projections enables DISIMP to integrate data of\n image, graphic and textual types. Images can be rectified by a number of\n coordinate systems, providing the true geographic knowledge essential\n for ground truthing. Overlays of grids, text and vector data can be\n added to further enhance referenced imagery.\n\n The system is a flexible package allowing users of various skill levels\n to determine their own working environment, including the amount of help\n required. DISIMP comes fully configured with no optional extras. The\n purchase price includes all functionality required for professional\n processing of remote sensed data.\n\n For further information, please contact:\n\n The Business Manager, CLOUGH Engineering Group Systems Division, 627\n Chapel Street, South Yarra, Australia 3141. Telephone: +61 3 825 5555\n Fax: +61 3 826 6463\n\nGlobal Imaging Software\n-----------------------\n \"We use Global Imaging Software to process AVHRR data, from the dish to\n the final display. Select a chunk of five band data from a pass,\n automatic navigation, calibrate it to Albedo and Temp, convert that to\n byte, register it to predesigned window, all relatively automatically\n and carefree.\n\n It has no classification routines to speak of, but it isn't that\n difficult to write your own with their programmer's module.\n\n Very small operation: one designs, one codes, one sells. Been around for\n a number of years, sold to Weather Service and Navy. Runs on HP9000\n with HP-UX. Supports 24-bit display\"\n\nHIPS\n----\n(Human Information Processing Laboratory's Image Processing System)\n\n Michael Landy co-wrote and sell a general-purpose package for image\n processing which has been used for basically all the usual image\n processing applications (robotics, medical, satellite, engineering, oil\n exploration, etc.). It is called HIPS, and deals with sequences of\n multiband images in the same way it deals with single images. It has\n been growing since we first wrote it, both by additions from us as well\n as a huge user-contributed library.\n\n Feature description\n\n HIPS is a set of image processing modules which together provide\n a powerful suite of tools for those interested in research,\n system development and teaching. It handles sequences of images\n (movies) in precisely the same manner as single frames.\n\n Programs and subroutines have been developed for simple image\n transformations, filtering, convolution, Fourier and other transform\n processing, edge detection and line drawing manipulation, digital\n image compression and transmission methods, noise generation, and image\n statistics computation. Over 150 such image transformation programs\n have been developed. As a result, almost any image processing task\n can be performed quickly and conveniently. Additionally, HIPS allows\n users to easily integrate their own custom routines. New users\n become effective using HIPS on their first day.\n\n HIPS features images that are self-documenting. Each image stored in\n the system contains a history of the transformations that have been\n applied to that image. HIPS includes a small set of subroutines\n which primarily deals with a standardized image sequence header, and\n a large library of image transformation tools in the form of UNIX\n ``filters''. It comes complete with source code, on-line manual\n pages, and on-line documentation.\n\n Host Configuration Requirements\n\n Originally developed at New York University, HIPS now represents\n one of the most extensive and flexible vision and image processing\n environments currently available. It runs under the UNIX operating\n system. It is modular and flexible, provides automatic documentation\n of its actions, and is almost entirely independent of special equipment.\n HIPS is now in use on a variety of computers including Vax and\n Microvax, Sun, Apollo, Masscomp, NCR Tower, Iris, IBM AT, etc.\n For image display and input, drivers are supplied for the Grinnell and\n Adage (Ikonas) image processors, and the Sun-2, Sun-3, Sun- 4, and\n Sun-386i consoles. We also supply user-contributed drivers for a\n number of other framestores and windowing packages (Sun gfx, Sun\n console, Matrox VIP-1024, ITI IP-512, Lexidata, Macintosh II, X\n windowing system, and Iris). The Hipsaddon package includes an\n interface for the CRS-4000. It is a simple matter to interface HIPS\n with other frame- stores, and we can put interested users in touch with\n users who have interfaced HIPS with the Arlunya and Datacube Max-\n Video. HIPS can be easily adapted for other image display devices\n because 98% of HIPS is machine independent.\n\n Availability\n\n HIPS has proven itself a highly flexible system, both as an\n interactive research tool, and for more production- oriented tasks. It\n is both easy to use, and quickly adapted and extended to new uses. HIPS\n is supplied on magnetic tape in UNIX tar format (either reel- to-reel or\n Sun cartridge), and comes with source code, libraries, a library of\n convolu- tion masks, and on-line documentation and manual pages.\n\n Michael Landy SharpImage Software P.O. Box 373, Prince Street Station\n New York, NY 10012-0007 Voice: (212) 998-7857 Fax: (212) 995-4011\n msl@cns.nyu.edu\n\n\nMIRA\n----\n[ Please DON'T confuse that with the Thalmanns animation system from\n Montreal. These are altogether different beasts! - nfotis ]\n\n MIRA stands for Microcomputer Image Reduction and Analysis. MIRA gives\n workstation level performance on 386/486 DOS computers using SVGA cards in\n 256 color modes up to 1024x768. MIRA contains a very handsome/functional\n GUI which is mouse and keystroke operated. MIRA reads/writes TIFF and FITS\n formats, native formats of a number of CCD cameras, and uncompressed binary\n images in byte, short integer, and 4-byte real pixel format in 1- or 2-\n dimensions. The result of an image processing operation can be short integer\n or real pixels, or the same as that of the input image. MIRA does the\n operation using short or floating point arithmetic to maintain the precision\n and accuracy of the pixel format. Over 100 functions are hand-coded in\n assembly language for maximum speed on the Intel hardware. The entire\n graphical interface is also written in assembly language to maximize\n the speed of windowing operations. Windows for 2-d image and 1-d image/data\n display and analysis have dedicated cursors which read position and value\n value in real time as you move the mouse. There are also smooth, real time\n contrast and brightness stretch and panning of a magnified portion of\n the displayed image(s), all operated by the mouse. A wide selection of\n grayscale, pseudocolor, and random palettes is provided, and other \n palettes can be generated.\n\n\nSupported functions include such niceties as the following:\n\no image & image: + - / * interpolation\no image & constant: + - / *\no unary operations: abs value, polynomial of pixel value, chs, 1/x, log,\n byteswap, clip values at upper/lower limits, short->real or real->short.\no combine images by mean, median, mode, or sum of pixel values, with or\n without autoscaling to mean, median, or mode of an image section.\no convolutions/filters: Laplacian, Sobel edge operator, directional gradient,\n line, Gaussian, elliptical and rectangular equal weight filters, unsharp\n masking, median filters, user defined filter kernel. Ellipse, rectangle,\n line, gradient, Gaussian, and user defined filters can be rotated to\n any specified angle.\no CCD data reduction: flat fielding, dark subtraction, column over/underscan\n bias removal, remove bad pixels and column defects, normalize to\n region target mean, median, or modal value.\no create subimage, mosaic m x n 1-d or 2-d images to get larger image,\n collapse 2-d image into 1-d image.\no plot 1-d section or collapsed section of 2-d image, plot histogram of\n region of an image.\no review/change image information/header data, rename keywords, plot\n keyword values for a set of images.\no luminance/photometry: elliptical or circular aperture photometry,\n brightness profile, isophotal photometry between set of upper & lower\n luminances, area and luminance inside traced polygon. Interactive\n background fitting and removal from part or all of image, fit elliptical\n aperture shape to image isophotes. \no interactive with 2-d image: contrast/brightness, x- y- or diagonal plot\n of pixel values, distance between two points, compute region stats,`\n centroid, pan to x,y location or image center, zoom 1/16 to 10 times,\n change cursor to rectangle crosshair, full image crosshair, or off, and\n adjust cursor size on image. Select linear, log or gamma transfer function\n or histogram equalization.\no interactive or specified image offset computation and re-sampling for\n registration.\no interactive with 1-d image: zoom in x- y- or both in steps of 1/2 or\n 2 times current, re-center plot, or enlarge a framed area. 4 plot buffers\n can be cycled through. Interactive data analysis: polynomial fitting,\n point deletion, undelete, change value, point weighting, linear and\n quadratic loess and binomial smoothing, revert to unit point weights\n or original data buffer, substitute results into data buffer for pass\n back to calling function. Dump data buffer (+ overlays and error bars)\n to file or printer. Change to user specified coordinate system.\no Tricolor image combination and display, hardcopy halftone printout to\n HP-PCL compatible printers (Laserjet, deskjet, etc.)\no Documentation is over 300 pages in custom vinyl binder.\n\n Cost: 995 $USD/copy\n\n Available from:\n\n Axiom Research, Inc.\n Box 44162\n Tucson, AZ 85733\n (602) 791-2864 phone/fax.\n\n international marketing rep: Saguaro Scientific Corporation, Tucson, Arizona.\n\n==========================================================================\n\nEnd of Part 2 of the Resource Listing", "If anyone has any experience with the ALR ProVEISA 486DX2 system I would \nbe interested to hear your impressions of it, and of ALR in general.\n\nThank you.\n\n/mark\n\n\n", "From: andersom@spot.Colorado.EDU (Marc Anderson)\n\n\t>Also.. how about a box that you plug your phone into, which would allow\n\t>encrypted voice communications with someone who has a similar box? \n\t>(digitizing input speech, transmitting, and decrypting on the other end). I \n\t>don't know how a public-key system could work in this regard, but it might \n\t[...]\n\n\theh heh... I posted this just before reading all the Clinton Chip messages..\n\tI guess they beat me to it.. Anyway, I think it would be a great idea to\n\tdevelop such a product, perhaps in the underground, as it would otherwise\n\tprobably become illegal pretty quickly here...\n\nIt's really very feasible and shouldn't be too expensive - all that's needed\nis a box with a phone jack on one side, a DSP in the middle to do codec\nfunctions of speech->compressed bytestream, and an RS232 on the other side.\n\nYou'd plug your phone into it, plug the RS232 into your computer, and have\na good old fashioned normal modem on your other RS232 port. The CPU in the\nmiddle would do the encryption with a version of pgp modified to work on\na byte stream.\n\nWith v32bis or better modems to carry the bytestream, it should work. \nQuality would only be marginally lower than a normal telephone.\n\nAt the very highest price, you could use one of those voice-mail compatible\nmodems to do the digitisation - that puts an upper bound of about $500 on\nthe cost of such a box. In practice, you really ought to be able to get\nthe price well below $100 - I could do it now in software on my cheap&nasty\nhome RISC box (Acorn Archimedes) with the digitising microphone I bought\nfor 25 pounds, if I knew how to write good speech compression software\n(which I don't).\n\nThe reason it won't work of course is that hardly anyone will have one -\nthe only consumer equipment to have encryption will use the wiretap chip.\nEconomics, I'm afraid.\n\nHowever... we can get about 2Kcps throughput on the internet even with\nthe bottleneck of a v32bis modem. When we get ISDN for all (ha ha ha)\nand the new NREN, it might then be trivial to run compressed speech\nover a tcp/ip connection on the Internet. Perhaps we should start\nthinking now of a standard to keep voice on the internet compatible\nfor everyone, and side-step the clipper stuff and use internet for\nall our phone calls in future :-) [1/2 joking]", "Hi netters,\n\nI'm using sliders in my XView apps, usually with editable numeric\nfield. But I seem to have no control over the length of this field.\nIn some apps it appears long enough to keep several characters,\nin some - it cannot keep even the maximum value set by \nPANEL_MAX_VALUE! \n\nAs I understand, PANEL_VALUE_DISPLAY_LENGTH, which controls\nnumber of characters to be displayed in text items, doesn't\nwork in the case of slider, despite the fact that \ncontains the following bit:\n\n\t/* Panel_multiline_text_item, Panel_numeric_text_item,\n\t * Panel_slider_item and Panel_text_item attributes\n\t */\n\tPANEL_NOTIFY_LEVEL\t= PANEL_ATTR(ATTR_ENUM,\t\t\t 152),\n\tPANEL_VALUE_DISPLAY_LENGTH\t= PANEL_ATTR(ATTR_INT,\t\t 182),\n\nwhich gives a hint that this attribute can be used for sliders.\nBut 1) setting this attribute gives nothing, and 2) xv_get'ting\nthis attribute gives warning: Bad attribute, and return value 0.\n\nCan someone share his experience in managing sliders in XView with me,\nand clear this problem?\n\nAny help is very much appreciated.\n\nYuri", "I have a lot of CDs for sale. Prices are $7 per CD and $3 per CD Single.\nCDs are noted by (CD) and CD Singles by (CDS). Please include $1 extra\nper CD for s/h costs. IF you want to buy a lot of them, then we'll work \nout a deal with the shipping costs!\n\nType Group Title\n---------------------------------------------\n\nCDS Boys to Men Motown Philly\nCDS C & C Music Factory Keep it Comin'\nCDS Moby Go (Remixes)\nCDS Quadrophonia Schizophrenia\nCDS Swing Out Sister Not Gonna Change\nCDS Recoil Faith Healer\nCDS Seal The Beginning\nCDS Transvision Vamp Tranvision Vamp\nCDS C & C Music Factory Gonna Make U Sweat\nCDS Nitzer Ebb Godhead\nCDS Roxette How Do You Do!\nCDS B-52's Good Stuff\nCDS Duran Duran Violence of Summer\nCDS Nitzer Ebb AS IS\nCDS Vanessa Williams Running Back to You\nCD Seal SEAL\nCD LFO Frequencies\nCD Morissey Kill Uncle\nCD Underworld Change the Weather\nCD Jody Watley You Wanna Dance With Me?\nCD Dead or Alive Fan the Flame\nCD Transvision Vamp Velveteen\nCD Adam Ant Manners & Physique\nCD Fine Young Cannibals The Raw & the Remix\nCD Black Box Dreamland\nCD Civilles & Cole Greatest Remixes Vol. 1\nCD Black Box Mixed Up!\nCD Scorpions The Best of Rockers &\n Ballads\nCD A & M Underground Dance Jam Harder", "I'm looking for any information on detecting and/or calculating a double\npoint and/or cusp in a bezier curve.\n\nAn algorithm, literature reference or mail about this is very appreciated,", "\n\nDevelopment of what? In-house apps? Maybe, but certainly not apps\nto be sold on an open market. Statistics like that are laughable,\nbecause they may simply mean that there are not enough shrink-wrapped\nusable apps for UNIX and they have to be developed disproportionately\noften as compared to the installed UNIX base.", "Printer model and specification:\n\nCanon CLC 500 (Color Laser Copier)\nps-ipu unit (postscript intelligent processing unit)\n\n\nHello,\n\nWe have recently purchased a very expensive and nice color copier/printer. \nWe want to be able to print to it from our SGI iris network. The \ncopier/printer has both a parallel and SCSI interface. I have configured the\nprinter with the \"lp\" system using the parallel interface and can print \npostscript files to the printer. I can also print rgb files, but these are in \nturn converted to postscript by an internal filter. The Canon CLC 500 is a \npublication quality printer but the quality of our postscript printouts \nare less than acceptable. We create the postscript files with a variaty of \nprograms, such as showcase, xv, and tops. When we convert to postscript \nwith tops and use the -l option to specify the halftone screen density of 98 \nrather than the default 40 the output is better, but still much less that \nacceptable. Note, that we are starting with a screen image in rgb image format\nand translating the image into postscript.\n\nWe suspect that if we could use the SCSI interface we would get higher quality \npictures. We have not purchased the software that drives the printer from the \nSCSI port. To my knowledge this software is $5000 and does not come with a \nwarranty. The management here does not want to spend this much money without \nsome assurance that the product will work.\n\n\nHere my questions:\n\nIf anybody on the net uses this printer are you using the SCSI or \nparallel port? What is the quality of the printouts?\n\nIs there a way to create high quality postscript printouts? What is the\nlimiting component, the postscript language or the postscript interpretor on \nthe printer?\n \nThe Big question:\n\nWhere can I get some software to drive the SCSI port for this printer?\n\n\n\nPlease email directly to me, I don't not read news on a regular basis. \nI will post a summary.\n\nThanks in advance.\n", "I would like to keep track of X development on:\n- A/UX\n- ULTRIX\n- OpenWindows\nCurrently I cannot use the newsgroup comp.windows.x \nand would like to use the Email based info. \nThanks,\n\n\nFolkert Boonstra \n", "I have written the file manager HFM, wich has two windows which compare\nthe files in two directorys to find out wether there are equal or \nsimilar files. The 7 most important operations, copy, move, delete,\nshow the file, start a progam, navigate in the directory tree can be\ninvoked by dragging a directory entry with the mouse. This is very\nconvenient, because the selection of the file and the operation to\nbe performed, occur in one move. For bitmap graphic viewing the\nprogram vpic can be integrated, for spreadsheat and database files\nI use the view program from PCTOOLS 7.1. HFM can be configured to\nuse arbitrary viewers to show special data formats. It does\nalso present archives from pkzip etc. as simulated subdirectorys.\nThis filemanager has a somewhat non standart user interface, but\nit is very convienient to use and is the prefered file manager \nin several labs in our university. \nThe drawback of this filemanager is, it's still a dos program and\nthe development of a windows version has not yet begun. I use the\nprogram package run18.zip, where run tells its windows companion\nsched.exe which windows program should be started. In this way you\ncan start a windows program from a dosbox. The new version 3.19\n(to be released soon) includes a new command for automating this\nwindows program start.\nFTP archives for the mentioned programs (all these archives have several\nmirror sites)\nSimtel oak.oakland.edu 141.210.10.117\n/filutl/hfm318.zip\n/gif/vpic60e.zip\nGarbo garbo.uwasa.fi 128.214.87.1\n/dirutil/hfm318.zip\nCICA ftp.cica.indiana.edu 129.79.20.17 \n/util/run18.zip\n-", "\n\nI heard boot_b.zip could do exactly what you wanted without touching\nanything. Check it out with archie.\n", "\n\nAnd why they are considering using WinBench as a test, they may want\nto read everything Steve Gibson has said on the subject in his\nInfoWorld column the past couple of month. In short, virtually\nevery board manufacturer cheats on the test by writing things in the\ndriver that is there only to make the board appear faster on the\nWinBench suite. So the WinBench score has no bearing in reality to\nhow cards stack up on real world tasks.\n\nIn the last PC-Magazine they benchmarked some of the new accelerators,\nand admitted that many of them 'cheated' on WinBench. Interestingly,\nthey 'allowed' one type of cheating behaviour (caching for bitblt\noperations, no matter how unreal), yet did not allow a couple of other\ntypes of cheating behaviour that some of the cards used. At least\none card was eliminated from the \"Editor's Choice\" because of\ncheating on the benchmark.", "\nI think you are running Xapollo , it's a X11R3 server ...\n\nIf you want a X11R4 server you should install PSKQ3 (10.3.5) or 10.4\n so you can run Xdomain . \n\n\nIn XKeysymDB you could add : \n!\t\tApollo specific keysyms\n!\napLineDel : 1000FF00\napCharDel : 1000FF01\napCopy : 1000FF02\napCut : 1000FF03\napPaste : 1000FF04\napMove : 1000FF05\napGrow : 1000FF06\napCmd : 1000FF07\napShell : 1000FF08\napLeftBar : 1000FF09\napRightBar : 1000FF0A\napLeftBox : 1000FF0B\napRightBox : 1000FF0C\napUpBox : 1000FF0D\napDownBox : 1000FF0E\napPop : 1000FF0F\napRead : 1000FF10\napEdit : 1000FF11\napSave : 1000FF12\napExit : 1000FF13\napRepeat : 1000FF14\napKP_parenleft : 1000FFA8\napKP_parenright : 1000FFA9\n\n\n--\nVictor .\n\n \\ /\n ^ ^ \n______victor@hpfrcu03.france.hp.com_______oOOo_o_oOOo_________________\n\nVictor GATTEGNO ", "\nIf you specify the rootwindow when you are creating your GC. You may \nuse Xlib to draw over multiple windows. \nI have an application that does something similar for rubber banding.\n\n curs_move = XCreateFontCursor (disp_data, XC_crosshair);\n\n geom_vals.foreground = blck_pixl ^ grey_dark;\n geom_vals.plane_mask = AllPlanes;\n geom_vals.line_width = 0;\n geom_vals.function = GXxor;\n geom_vals.subwindow_mode = IncludeInferiors;\n evnt_mask= GCForeground | GCPlaneMask | GCLineWidth | GCFunction\n | GCSubwindowMode;\n geom_gcon= XCreateGC (disp_data, root_iden, evnt_mask, &geom_vals);\n\n\n\nlater I can move the rubber band or bands using the following logic\n\n/**********************************************************************/\n void Tselect::move_bands (int delt_xloc, int delt_yloc) /****/\nstuff deleted ...\n XDrawRectangle (disp_data, root_iden, geom_gcon,\n sele_pntr->rootx, sele_pntr->rooty,\n sele_pntr->xlnth, sele_pntr->ylnth); undraw old one\n sele_pntr->papax+= delt_xloc;\n sele_pntr->papay+= delt_yloc;\n sele_pntr->rootx+= delt_xloc;\n sele_pntr->rooty+= delt_yloc;\n XDrawRectangle (disp_data, root_iden, geom_gcon, \n sele_pntr->rootx, sele_pntr->rooty,\n sele_pntr->xlnth, sele_pntr->ylnth); draw new one\nmore stuff deleted\n hope this helps\n\n\n-- \nBrian Dealy |301-572-8267| It not knowing where it's at \ndealy@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov | | that's important,it's knowing\n!uunet!dftsrv!kong!dealy | | where it's not at... B.Dylan", "\n\nSorry for the followup, but I couldn'y get email through on your addresses.\nI, too, am trying to decide between these two printers, and I would like to\nhear what users of these printers have to say about the questions above.\n\nThank you.", "\n\n\nStart the renamed saver vid the commandline option /s.", ": Are there significant differences between V2.01 and V2.00 ?\n: Thank you for helping\n\n\nNo. As I recall, the only differences are in the 3ds.set parameters - some\nof the defaults have changed slightly. I'll look when I get home and let\nyou know, but there isn't enough to actually warrant upgrading.", "I am looking for an available program that would convert gif\nfiles to other formats usable on DOS-based software such\nas WordPerfect Presentations (which will handle .wpg and .tiff,\namong others). \n\nAny suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you very much for\nyour time and help.\n\nSteve\nalford@novavax.nova.edu\n ", "The floppy is served by DMA on the motherboard,\nand original DMA-controller can't reach more than the first\n16MB (The address-space of the ISA-bus)\njoerg\n", "Nova Mob |Last Days of Pompeii|$8 ppd.\nOverwhelming Colorfast |Overwhelming Colorfast|$8 ppd.\nTeenage Fanclub |Bandwagonesque|$9 ppd.\nTin Machine |Tin Machine II|$9 ppd.\nVarious |Teriyaki Asthma I-V Comp.|$9.50 ppd.\n\nRob\n", "Hi,\n\nI'm in the market for an internal color video adaptor for my PB 145. I\nwas wondering if anyone has used the PowerVision adaptor made by\nMirror. If so, can you tell me how feel about the speed and\ncompatability of it? I might also be interested in other boards by\nEnvisio etc., so if you have such a board please e-mail your opinion of\nit. Thanks in advance.", "I've had my Fluke 8060A here at work for just over 10 years now.\nIt is a wonderful meter. Several colleagues here have some of the\nnewer Fluke meters, though I still would just as soon hang on to my\n8060. The 8060 a is the 1980s digial \"analog\" to the Simpson 260\nanalog DMM of the 1950-1960s. There was/is (?) an 8060B that had\nextended frequency response.\n\nI've got a nifty little pen shaped meter made by Soar that I keep\nin my toolbox at home. I've had that for six or seven years now\nand only replaced the batteries a couple of timees; it is more than\nadequate for day-to-day hobby use. I think Soar OEMs their stuff\nfor a number of vendors. Some of JDR Microdevices' stuff looks\nrather similar to Soar's.\n\n", "\nDon't get too excited; Signetics, not Motorola, gave the 68070 its number.\nThe 68070, if I understand rightly, uses the 68000 instruction set, and has\nan on-chip serial port and DMA. (It will run at up to 15 MHz--I'm typing\nat a computer using a 68070 running at that rate, so I know that it can\ndo so--so I seriously doubt the clock rate that ricardo@rchland.vnet.ibm.com\nclaims.)", "\n\nI don't know if there's a corresponding patch for Solaris 2.1, but this\nsounds like the following bug which is supposedly fixed in 100492-06, the\nSolaris 1.x olwm Jumbo patch:\n\n\t1108642 - window system can hang in an errant pointer grab\n\nActually, I suspect that the OW 3.1 problem may be different, since the\nREADME file says that this patch is just a SunOS 4.x version of the OW 3.1\nolwm (but maybe that line came from an earlier version of the patch, and\nthey forgot to take it out in the -06 version).\n-- \nBarry Margolin\nSystem Manager, Thinking Machines Corp.", "\n\n\t[munch]\n\n\n\n\n\t[munch following is reformatted]\n\n\n\n\n\tI'd say that the massive crash problems are exceedingly rare.\n\tWindows _itself_ almost never crashes, but it can be crashed by\n\tan errant application (My personal favorite? Any one of the Corel\n\t3.0 programs). On the other hand, I have had OS/2 crash randomly\n\ta number of times, mostly just running it's own applications.\n\n\tFor instance. Today I discovered a new one. While I was downloading\n\twith Procomm Plus For Windows (running seamless with the standard\n\tVGA drivers on a run-o' da mill VGA card--640x480), I decided that\n\tI wanted to edit a copy of a quote that I wanted to add to my \n\t.finger. But since I've learned not to really trust seamless, \n\tI fired up a full screen WinOS/23.1 session. Whoops, the download\n\tfinished while WinOS/2 was loading. It had _just_ gotten\n\tthe pointer up, so I hit alt-escape to get back t the desktop\n\t(I have a lot of fonts, so loading takes a good long while).\n\t\n\tBlam. Screen trashed, Procomm hangs up. Hm. Well, I can sorta\n\tsee the mouse, so I clicked on the minimized WINOS/2 session \n\tand got back my fullscreen Windows session (but the color were\n\toff--red and green and yellow and brown instead of blues and greys).\n\tSo I closed this, and got back to the desktop (now fully restored).\n\n\tPP+ was still sitting, window open, but it was no longer \n\t\"connected\" to the com port--so I exited it (the normal way--\n\tit told me I was still online and it would hang up, though it\n\twas _already_ hung up). Hm. Well, load anothe--no, bad idea. \n\tShutdown and reboot.\n\n\tOk, refresh first.. Now, shutdown. Yes, everything is closed...\n\n\tHm. Nothing seems to be happening. Let's see.. Ah, the \n\twindows list still comes up. OK, let's try shutdown again.\n\n\tNo go. Huh.\n\n\tAlright, wait 60 seconds to see if it's just running slow.\n\n\tHmm. Still seems to be running OS/2. Try shutdown again.\n\tNothing. Oh well. Reboot. Enjoy the checkdisk time.\n \n\tIn this case, a part of the OS crashed not only itself, but\n\tOS/2 entirely (which isn't even smart enough to tell when it;s\n\tbeen compromised, I guess). In everyday (specifically _today_)\n\tuse.\n\n\n\n\n\tThat's the idea, anyway. In truth, when a program crashes on \n\tOS/2, it will bring the system down with it. The programs that\n\twould just GPF under Windows do the same under OS/2, but programs\n\tthat are fine under DOS and Windows bring OS/2 screaming to a halt,\n\ttask protection or no. \n\n\tFor instance, I'm still wondering why print preview in a windowed\n\tWP 5.1 (DOS) locks up my system. It works fine under DOS or even in\n\ta dos box under Windows 3.1. (Admittedly, it doesn't crash if I run\n\tWP51 full screen, but the first time this bug big me, it bit hard).\n\n\n\n\n\n\tPlease explain. The only time I wait on anything under Windows is\n\twhen I'm copying or formatting a floppy, or when printing (and even\n\tthen, not long--I get 9 to 11 pages dumped to the printman per \n\tminute, and can _still_ go do things--slowly--while it's doing \n\tthis--I've downloaded with PP+ @9600 while printing).\n\n\n\n\n\n\tNot sure what you mean here. OS/2 sees 16 megs, uses 5 or six\n\tof these for it's own use (more if you want to count WinOS/2). \n\tWindows sees 16 megs, uses 3 or 4 (more like 5 if you count the\n\tdisk cache as I am for OS/2) for itself. If memory efficiency \n\twere a big issue, PC GEOS would be the current king of the \n\tIntel desktop. \n\n\n\n\n\tOn the other hand.. I am finally able to say with some confidence\n\tthat both OS/2 and Windows have a bit of hardware sensitivity to\n\tthem. For instance, the machine I am sitting at runs both fine, \n\twhile the machine next to me constantly locks up under Windows. \n\t(But ran OS/2 without a hitch once I got it through a 5-crash \n\tinstall). On the whole, I'd say OS/2 is a whole lot more sensitive\n\tthan Windows, but there are (I suppose) machines that Windows\n\tjust doesn't like. \n\n\n\n\t\n\tWasn't this _Ferris_ Bueller?\n\n", "\n\n\tHeay bud, get a life in the real world.... Do you still play with your Atari\nwith the paddles? Geez man, open your eyes on the technoledgy of today...\n\nI have been quoted a price from a local dealer friend of mine, that I could get a \nMotherboard (386DX/33 with 64K cache, with 1 meg base ram.) for $285 !!\n\n\tHere is some friendly advice, go to your favorite book store (Walden Book's)\nand pick up a Computer Shoppers Guide...\n\n\tYou think that was aa good price wait till you see some of the OTHER goodies they sell", "\n It's possible to make boards in other colors, and I have an ad\nfor laser light-show equipment which offers the circuit boards in your\nchoice of Day-Glo (tm) colors.\n\n The usual light green color is just the natural color of Fiberglas.\nThe dark green or blue is the solder mask layer, and I suspect that color\nis a dye. ", "I am looking for a Windows Utility that would give me a listing of files\nin a directory, but also display a description of the file. This utility\nwould allow me to enter and edit file descriptions of, hopefully, any \nlength (maybe a small window with a scroll bar?). I would then be able\nto browse my directories and be able to see what is in a file without\nhaving to open or execute it. Any such beast out there? If not, anyone\nwant to write one?", "Oh..\njust a note, my usually poor typing is made even more dificult by the \nsmall keyboard and mutiple connections I am piped through in order\nto access news while here in DC.\n\nI'm really not trying to irritate the spelling mavens :-)\n\nLUX ./. owen\n\n", "FOR SALE\n\n FTP software, Inc.\n\n PC/TCP (Networking Software for DOS) Version 2.04 (***)\n\n with LAN driver for 3c503 cards, others you can get from FTP itself,\n serial numbers, orignal diskettes.,\n TCP/IP telnet/ftp/ping/lpr/finger etc....", "Thanks to all who responded to my original post. I got the number for\nWestern Digital tech support and determined that I need to upgrade the\nBIOS to the Super BIOS. It will handle hard drives with up to 16 read/\nwrite heads and up to 1024 cylinders. The upgrade is $15, payable by\ncheck or money order. Send to:\n\n\tWestern Digital Corporation\n\tTechnical Support Group\n\tP.O. Box 19665\n\tIrvine, CA 92713-9665\n\nThe Super BIOS is for any WD XT hard drive controller card in the\nWD1002 series.\n\nThe BIOS on my system would only handle up to 20mb drives.\n\nThe responses to my request for help follow my .sig. Warning: It's long.\n\nKeith\n\n--\n_____________________________\n__-----____--___--__-----____\tD. Keith Rice\n__--__--___--__--___--__--___\tUniversity of North Texas\n__--___--__--_--____--___--__\tDepartment of Computer Science\n__--___--__----_____--__--___\tDenton, Texas, USA\n__--___--__--_--____--_--____\n__--__--___--__--___--__--___\tdrice@ponder.csci.unt.edu\n__-----____--___--__--___--__\tdrice@cs.unt.edu\n_____________________________\n\n<========================== responses below ==========================>\n\nFrom ravalent@mailbox.syr.edu Sat Apr 3 16:45:03 1993\nReceived: from mailbox.syr.EDU by ponder (5.61/1.36)\n\tid AA15218; Sat, 3 Apr 93 16:45:00 -0600\nFrom: ravalent@mailbox.syr.edu (Bob Valentine)\nReceived: from mothra.syr.EDU by mailbox.syr.edu (4.1/CNS)\n\tid AA16647; Sat, 3 Apr 93 17:44:49 EST\nReceived: by mothra.syr.EDU (4.1/Spike-2.0)\n\tid AA03607; Sat, 3 Apr 93 17:43:27 EST\nDate: Sat, 3 Apr 93 17:43:27 EST\nMessage-Id: <9304032243.AA03607@mothra.syr.EDU>\nTo: drice@ponder\nStatus: OR\n\nTo: drice@ponder.csci.unt.edu\nSubject: Re: Drive/Controller Compatibility\nNewsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware\nIn-Reply-To: \nOrganization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY\nCc: \n\n\n Ah, finally a question I can answer. I mess with this older\nstuff alot. Kinda fun. 8)\n\n First problem I can forsee is that the ST-251 will not be\ncompadible with that WD card unless it has the right bios rom. \n\n Check the numbers on it. It should be the only non-smt chip on\nthe board. Slightly below center, and left. The bios should read \neither : 62-000042-015 or\n 62-000094-0x2\n\n If the last 3 digits are 013, you got problems.\n\n\n Looks right. W5 and W7 are factory jumped (with a trace) between\npins 1 and 2 to select the primary controller address.\n\n\n Looks right.\n \n[art deleted]\n\n\n I notice you left out the S1 jumper table settings. Those are\nwhat control what drive the controller thinks it has. If you have\nthe 62-000042-015 rom, set it like this:\n\n 5 + + open\n 6 + + open \n 7 + + open \n 8 + + open\n 4 + + closed\n 3 + + closed\n 2 + + open\n 1 + + open\n\n Note: those are how WD runs the numbers on the jumper block.\nTop to bottom. +'s represent the jumper pins. Pins 3,4, and 8\nselect the first drive setting (drive 0) and pins 1,2 and 7 select the\nsecond drive (drive 1). \n\n If you have the 62-000094 rom, it's a auto-config, and I'll have\nto look up how to do it... I don't have the big book right here.\n\n\n See above. You might have problems if the S1 jumpers are not\nright. Also, at the risk of being insulting, make sure the cables\nare on right and good. 8). On the jumper on the 251, try moving it\nto the opposite side of the drive. It's one or the other. \n The narrow data cable goes to J2. I've thrown it on J3 a few\ntimes and banged my head for a day.....\n\n\n Dunno. IBM roms had to be later than 10/27/82. A quick way\nto check is to boot dos and run debug. Enter:\n \n -d f000:fff5 fffc (the - is the debug prompt)\n \n This will return the rom date, if it's of any use.\n\n\n If I oversimplified any of the above, I appologize. It's\njust hard to know what caliber of person I'm talking to. 8).\n\n --> Bob Valentine <-- \n --> ravalent@mailbox.syr.edu <-- \n\n\n\nFrom chpp@unitrix.utr.ac.za Mon Apr 5 06:33:46 1993\nReceived: from unitrix.utr.ac.za by ponder (5.61/1.36)\n\tid AA16194; Mon, 5 Apr 93 06:32:59 -0500\nReceived: by unitrix.utr.ac.za (Smail3.1.28.1 #1)\n\tid m0nfpMA-0001X7C; Mon, 5 Apr 93 13:28 GMT\nMessage-Id: \nFrom: chpp@unitrix.utr.ac.za (Prof P. Piacenza)\nSubject: ST251\nTo: drice@ponder\nDate: Mon, 5 Apr 1993 13:28:49 +0200 (GMT)\nX-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL11]\nMime-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\nContent-Length: 24559 \nStatus: OR\n\n\nIf you are using a TWISTED 34-way cable then move the jumper \non your drive to the neighbouring pins :8::::::. Make sure that\nthe twisted cable is for a hard disk (and not a floppy disk) - the\ncoloured stripe (pin 1) should be furthest from the twist.\n\nThis may also help.\n\n\n PRODUCTS FOR XT SYSTEMS\n \n \n HARD DISK CONTROLLERS FOR MFM HARD DISK DRIVES\n Reference NOTE 1.\n \n \n WD1002A-WX1, feature F300R - Half-slot size hard disk controller \n card with an ST506/ST412 interface. It supports 2 MFM drives \n with up to 16 heads and 1024 cylinders and is jumper \n configurable for secondary addressing and default drive tables. \n Built in ROM BIOS supports non-standard drive types, virtual \n drive formatting, dual drive operation, bad track formatting and \n dynamic formatting. This board features a power connector for \n filecard applications and it will also operate in AT systems. \n Please note that this controller card will be unavailable from \n the manufacturer (Western Digital) after March, 1989. Reference \n NOTE 2.\n \n WDXT-GEN, feature F300R - Half-slot size hard disk controller \n card with an ST506/ST412 interface. It supports 2 MFM hard \n disk drives with up to 8 heads and 1024 cylinders. Built-in ROM \n BIOS supports non-standard drive types, virtual drive \n formatting, dual drive operation, bad track formatting and \n dynamic formatting. Please note that this controller card will \n be unavailable from the manufacturer (Western Digital) after \n March, 1989.\n \n WD1004A-WX1, feature F300R - Half-slot size disk controller \n card with an ST506/ST412 interface. It supports 2 MFM drives \n with up to 16 heads and 1024 cylinders and is jumper \n configurable for secondary addressing and default drive tables. \n Built in ROM BIOS supports non-standard drive types, virtual \n drive formatting, dual drive operation, bad track formatting and \n dynamic formatting. This board features a power connector for \n filecard applications and it will also operate in AT systems. \n Reference NOTE 2.\n \n WDXT-GEN2, feature F300R - Half-slot size hard disk controller \n card with an ST506/ST412 interface. It supports 2 MFM hard disk \n drives with up to 8 heads and 1024 cylinders. Built-in ROM BIOS \n supports non-standard drive types, virtual drive formatting, \n dual drive operation, bad track formatting and dynamic \n formatting. Reference NOTE 2.\n \n \n \n HARD DISK CONTROLLERS FOR RLL HARD DISK DRIVES\n Reference NOTE 2.\n \n \n WD1002-27X, feature F301R - Half-slot size hard disk controller \n card with an ST506/ST412 interface. It supports 2 RLL hard disk \n drives with up to 16 heads and 1024 cylinders and is jumper \n configurable for secondary addressing and default drive tables. \n Built in ROM BIOS supports non-standard drive types, virtual \n drive formatting, dual drive operation, bad track formatting and \n dynamic formatting. This board features a power connector for \n filecard applications and it will also operate in AT systems. \n Please note that this controller card will be unavailable from \n the manufacturer (Western Digital) after March, 1989. Reference \n NOTE 2.\n \n WD1002A-27X, feature 300R - Half-slot size hard disk controller \n with an ST506/ST412 interface. It supports 2 RLL drives with up \n to 16 heads and 1024 cylinders. Built-in ROM BIOS supports non-\n standard drive types, virtual drive formatting, bad track \n formatting and dynamic formatting. Please note that this \n controller card will be unavailable from the manufacturer \n (Western Digital) after March, 1989.\n \n WD1004-27X, feature F301R - Half-slot size hard disk controller \n card with an ST506/ST412 interface. It supports 2 RLL hard \n disk drives with up to 16 heads and 1024 cylinders and is jumper \n configurable for secondary addressing and default drive tables. \n Built in ROM BIOS supports non-standard drive types, virtual \n drive formatting, dual drive operation, bad track formatting \n and dynamic formatting. This board features a power connection \n for filecard applications and it will also operate in AT \n systems. Reference NOTE 2.\n \n WD1004A-27X, feature F300R - Half-slot size hard disk \n controller with an ST506/ST412 interface. It supports 2 RLL \n drives with up to 16 heads and 1024 cylinders. Built-in ROM \n BIOS supports non-standard drive types, virtual drive \n formatting, bad track formatting and dynamic formatting.\n \n NOTE 1: AT&T 6300 - The AT&T 6300 and the AT&T 6300 PLUS \n contain system BIOS chips that support the hard disk drive. \n When using a Western Digital XT controller card the system will \n not \"boot.\" To solve this problem, one of the ROM BIOS chips \n must be disabled. To disable the BIOS on your Western Digital \n XT controller card, you must remove the jumper at position W-3 \n or add a jumper at position R-23 (depending on which model of XT \n controller you are using).\n \n -2-\n\n\n \n NOTE 2: TANDY 1000 SYSTEMS - The WD1002A-WX1, WD1004A-WX1, \n WDXT-GEN2 and the WD1004-27X can be modified to operate in \n Tandy 1000 series computers, models SX, TX and the original or \n \"A\" version. These computers utilize an interrupt of 2 (IRQ2) \n instead of IRQ5, the IBM standard. To modify the WD1002A-WX1 or \n the WD1002-27X to operate in these systems, you must cut the \n etch between pin 1 and pin 2 at jumper position W-7. Then \n solder pin 2 and pin 3 at the position (W-7). To complete the \n modification, a jumper must be added to position 7 of switch S-1 \n (2 rows of 8 pins). PLEASE NOTE THAT ANY PHYSICAL MODIFICATION \n TO YOUR WESTERN DIGITAL HARD DISK CONTROLLER VOIDS THE WARRANTY \n ON YOUR BOARD. To modify the WD1004A-WX1, WDXT-GEN2 or the \n WD1004-27X for your Tandy 1000 system, a zero ohm resister must \n be soldered to jumper position W-27. This will change the \n interrupt from IRQ5 to IRQ2.\n \n \n XT CONTROLLERS FOR FLOPPY DISK DRIVES\n \n \n WD1002A-FOX - Half-slot floppy disk controller for XT or AT \n systems. Four versions of the board are available:\n Feature F001 supports two floppy disk drives.\n Feature F002 supports four floppy disk drives and includes \n an optional 37-pin control, data and power connector and \n an optional 4-pin power connector.\n Feature F003 supports two floppy disk drives and includes\n a ROM BIOS that will enable your system to recognize \n floppy disk drive that may not be supported by your AT\n system ROM BIOS. The optional ROM BIOS will also allow\n this controller card to operate high density floppy disk\n drives in an XT system.\n Feature F004 supports four floppy disk drives and includes\n an optional 37-pin control, data and power connector, an\n optional 4-pin power connector and a ROM BIOS that will \n enable your system to recognize floppy disk drives that \n may not be supported by your AT system ROM BIOS. The \n optional ROM BIOS will also allow this controller card to \n operate high density floppy disk drives in an XT system.\n \n \n -3-\n\n\n\n PRODUCTS FOR AT SYSTEMS\n \n \n HARD DISK CONTROLLERS FOR MFM HARD DISK DRIVES - NO FLOPPY SUPPORT\n \n \n WD1003-WAH, feature F003R - Hard disk controller card with an \n ST506/ST412 interface. It supports 2 MFM drives with up to 16 \n heads and 2048 cylinders, 3:1 interleave.\n \n WD1003V-MM1, feature F300R - Hard disk controller card with an \n ST506/ST412 interface. It supports 2 MFM drives with up to 16 \n heads and 2048 cylinders, 2:1 interleave. The \"V\" boards can \n run in high speed AT systems (10 to 16 megahertz system speed).\n \n WD1006-WAH , feature F001R - Hard disk controller card with \n an ST506/ST412 interface. It supports 2 MFM drives with up to \n 16 heads and 2048 cylinders, 1:1 interleave.\n \n WD1006V-MM1, feature F300R - Hard disk controller card with an \n ST506/ST412 interface. It supports 2 MFM drives with up to 16 \n heads and 2048 cylinders, 1:1 interleave and faster data \n transfer due to \"look ahead caching.\" The \"V\" boards can run in \n high speed AT systems (10 to 16 megahertz system speed).\n \n \n HARD DISK CONTROLLERS FOR MFM HARD DISK DRIVES AND FLOPPY DISK DRIVES\n \n \n WD1003-WA2, feature F003R - Hard disk controller card with an \n ST506/ST412 interface, full AT form factor. It supports 2 MFM \n drives with up to 16 heads and 2048 cylinders, at 3:1 \n interleave and 2 floppy disk drives (360K and 1.2 MB).\n \n WD1003A-WA2, feature F003R - Hard disk controller card with an \n ST506/ST412 interface, full XT form factor. It supports 2 MFM \n drives with up to 16 heads and 2048 cylinders, at 3:1 interleave \n and 2 floppy disk drives (360K and 1.2 MB).\n \n WD1003V-MM2, feature F300R - Hard disk controller card with an \n ST506/ST412 interface. It supports a maximum of 2 MFM drives \n with up to 16 heads and 2048 cylinders at 2:1 interleave, and 2 \n floppy disk drives (5-1/4\" 360K, 1.2Mb; 3-1/2\" 720K, 1.44Mb). \n The \"V\" boards can run in high speed AT systems, (10 to 16 \n megahertz system speed).\n \n WD1006V-MM2, feature F300R - Hard disk controller card with an \n ST506/ST412 interface. It supports a maximum of 2 MFM drives \n with up to 16 heads and 2048 cylinders at 1:1 interleave and \n faster data transfer due to \"look ahead caching\" and 2 floppy \n disk drives (5-1/4\" 360K, 1.2 Mb; 3-1/2\" 720K, 1.44 Mb). The \n \"V\" boards can run in high speed AT systems, (10 to 16 megahertz \n system speed).\n \n \n -4-\n\n\n HARD DISK CONTROLLERS FOR RLL HARD DISK DRIVES - NO FLOPPY SUPPORT \n \n \n WD1003-RAH - Hard disk controller card with an ST506/ST412 \n interface. It supports 2 RLL hard disk drives with up to 16 \n heads and 2048 cylinders at 3:1 interleave. \n \n WD1003V-SR1 - Hard disk controller card with an ST506/ST412 \n interface. It supports a maximum of 2 RLL hard disk drives with \n up to 16 heads and 2048 cylinders at 2:1 interleave. The \"V\" \n boards can run in high speed AT systems (10 to 16 megahertz \n system speed).\n Feature F301R includes an optional ROM BIOS that allows \n the user to define the drive's parameters. \n Feature F300R does not include the ROM BIOS and you must \n use the drive tables on your system's ROM BIOS that must \n contain the appropriate drive parameters.\n \n \n WD1006-RAH - Hard disk controller card with an ST506/ST412 \n interface. It supports a maximum of 2 RLL hard disk drives with \n up to 16 heads and 2048 cylinders, 1:1 interleave.\n Feature F001R includes an optional ROM BIOS that provides \n additional drive parameter tables.\n Feature F300R does not include the ROM BIOS and you must \n use the drive tables on your system's ROM BIOS that must \n contain the appropriate drive parameters.\n \n \n WD1006V-SR1 - Hard disk controller card with an ST506/ST412 \n interface. It supports 2 RLL hard disk drives with up to 16 \n heads and 2048 cylinders, 1:1 interleave and faster data \n transfer due to \"look ahead caching.\" The \"V\" boards can run in \n high speed AT systems (10 to 16 megahertz system speed).\n Feature F301R includes an optional ROM BIOS that allows \n the user to define the drive's parameters. \n Feature F300R does not include the ROM BIOS and you must \n use the drive tables on your system's ROM BIOS that must \n contain the appropriate drive parameters.\n \n \n \n HARD DISK CONTROLLERS FOR RLL HARD DISK DRIVES AND FLOPPY DISK DRIVES\n \n \n WD1003-RA2, feature F001R - Hard disk controller card with an \n ST506/ST412 interface. It supports a maximum of 2 RLL hard disk \n drives with up to 16 heads and 2048 cylinders, at 3:1 \n interleave, and 2 floppy disk drives (5-1/4\" 360K, 1.2 Mb).\n \n \n \n -5-\n\n \n WD1003V-SR2 - Hard disk controller card with an ST506/ST412 \n interface. It supports a maximum of 2 RLL hard disk drives with \n up to 16 heads and 2048 cylinders, at 2:1 interleave, and 2 \n floppy disk drives, (5-1/4\" 360K, 1.2 Mb; 3-1/2\" 720K, 1.44 \n Mb). The \"V\" boards run in high speed AT systems (10 to 16 \n megahertz system speed).\n Feature F301R includes an optional ROM BIOS that allows \n the user to define the drive's parameters.\n Feature 300R does not include the ROM BIOS and you must\n use the drive tables on your system's ROM BIOS that must \n contain the appropriate drive parameters.\n \n \n WD1006V-SR2 - Hard disk controller card with an ST506/ST412 \n interface. It supports a maximum of 2 RLL hard disk drives with \n up to 16 heads, 2048 cylinders and 2 floppy disk drives (5-1/4\" \n 360K, 1.2 Mb; 3-1/2\" 720K, 1.44 Mb). It also features 1:1 \n interleave and faster data transfer due to \"look ahead \n caching\". The \"V\" boards can run in high speed AT systems (10 \n to 16 megahertz system speed). \n Feature F301R includes an optional ROM BIOS that allows \n the user to define the drive's parameters.\n Feature 300R does not include the ROM BIOS and you must \n use the drive tables on your system's ROM BIOS that must \n contain the appropriate drive parameters.\n \n \n \n HARD DISK CONTROLLERS FOR ESDI HARD DISK DRIVES - NO FLOPPY SUPPORT -\n \n \n WD1007A-WAH - This controller card will support up to 2 ESDI \n hard disk drives, 10 megabit per second data transfer rate and \n 1:1 interleave. \n Feature F301R includes an optional ROM BIOS with \"shadow \n RAM\" that will enable the controller card to interface \n with all types of ESDI drives without modifying the system \n ROM BIOS.\n Feature F300R does not include the ROM BIOS and you must \n use the drive tables on your system's ROM BIOS that must \n contain the appropriate drive parameters.\n \n WD1007V-SE1/ME1 - This controller card will support up to 2 ESDI \n hard disk drives, 15 megabit per second data transfer rate and \n 1:1 interleave. The \"V\" boards can run in high speed AT \n systems, (10 to 16 megahertz system speed).\n Feature F301R includes an optional ROM BIOS with \"shadow \n RAM\" that will enable the controller card to interface \n with all types of ESDI drives without modifying the system \n ROM BIOS.\n Feature F300R does not include the ROM BIOS and you must \n use the drive tables on your system's ROM BIOS that must \n contain the appropriate drive parameters.\n \n -6-\n \n HARD DISK CONTROLLERS FOR ESDI HARD DISK DRIVES AND FLOPPY DISK \n DRIVES\n \n \n WD1007A-WA2 - This controller card will support up to 2 ESDI \n hard disk drives, 10 megabit per second data transfer rate, 1:1 \n interleave and 2 floppy disk drives (5-1/4\" 360K, 1.2 Mb; 3-1/2\" \n 720K, 1.44 Mb).\n Feature F301R includes an optional ROM BIOS with \"shadow \n RAM\" that will enable the controller card to interface \n with all types of ESDI drives without modifying the system \n ROM BIOS.\n Feature F300R does not include the ROM BIOS and you must \n use the drive tables on your system's ROM BIOS that must \n contain the appropriate drive parameters.\n \n \n WD1007V-SE2/ME2 - This controller card will support up to 2 ESDI \n hard disk drives, 15 megabit per second data transfer rate, 1:1 \n interleave and 2 floppy drives (5-1/4\" 360K, 1.2 Mb; 3-1/2\" \n 720K, 1.44 Mb). The \"V\" boards can run in high speed AT systems \n (10 to 12 megahertz bus speed).\n Feature F301R includes an optional ROM BIOS with \"shadow \n RAM\" that will enable the controller card to interface \n with all types of ESDI drives without modifying the system \n ROM BIOS.\n Feature F300R does not include the ROM BIOS and you must \n use the drive tables on your system's ROM BIOS that must \n contain the appropriate drive parameters.\n \n \n WD1007A-WA4 - This controller card will support up to 2 ESDI \n hard disk drives, 10 megabit per second data transfer rate, 1:1 \n interleave and 2 floppy disk drives (5-1/4\" 360K, 1.2 Mb; 3-1/2\" \n 720K, 1.44 Mb). This board also has a serial port and parallel \n port.\n Feature F301R includes an optional ROM BIOS with \"shadow \n RAM\" that will enable the controller card to interface \n with all types of ESDI drives without modifying the system \n ROM BIOS.\n Feature F300R does not include the ROM BIOS and you must \n use the drive tables on your system's ROM BIOS that must \n contain the appropriate drive parameter. \n \n \n -7-\n\n\n \n HARD DISK CONTROLLERS FOR SCSI HARD DISK DRIVES\n \n \n 7000-ASC - A SCSI host adapter that serves as an interface \n between the AT bus and the SCSI bus. All necessary drivers and \n receivers are included, permitting direct cable connections to \n the SCSI bus through a 50 pin connector and to the AT bus \n through two edge connectors. The 7000-ASC utilizes jumper \n configurable options that enable the address space, DMA channels \n and interrupt requests to be selected to suit the end user's \n application. The board also features word data transfer at 4 \n megabytes per second (synchronous), an on-board floppy disk \n controller and a ROM BIOS. Please note that the 7000-ASC \n operates using standard DOS 3.2 or DOS 3.3 only.\n \n 7000-FASST2 - This SCSI host adapter card provides the same \n features as the 7000-ASC plus additional support capabilities \n using software developed by Columbia Data Products. The 7000-\n FASST2 will support MS-DOS 3.2-3.3, Compaq DOS 3.31, PC-DOS 4.0, \n PC-MOS/386 version 2.1, XENIX, Microsoft Windows, Novell and \n Sytos tape backup.\n \n WDATXT-FASST KIT - An \"unintelligent\" SCSI host adapter that is \n compatible with the IBM XT, AT and compatible systems. It uses \n a 50 pin external SCSI bus \"D\" connector with a standard 50 pin \n internal SCSI cable. The WDATXT-FASST can be used as both a \n target and an initiator and it serves as an excellent tool for \n SCSI designers. It also provides a low cost alternative for end-\n users desiring to install a SCSI peripheral device such as a \n hard disk drive or a tape backup unit. The kit includes an 8-bit \n SCSI HBA board, manual, FASST software diskettes and an internal \n SCSI cable.\n \n SYTOS TAPE BACKUP - (Utility for 7000-FASST) - FASST-SYTOS - \n FASST version of Sytos tape backup utilities. MS-DOS \n compatible, it runs with FASST software products Revision 3.3+.\n \n \n HARD DISK CONTROLLERS FOR PS/2 MODEL 50, 60, 80 SYSTEMS \n (MICROCHANNEL ARCHITECTURE)\n \n \n WD1006V-MC1, feature F300R - Hard disk controller with an \n ST506/ST412 interface for microchannel systems. It supports 2 \n MFM drives with up to 16 heads and 2048 cylinders, 1:1 \n interleave and faster data transfer due to \"look ahead \n caching.\" The\"V\" boards can run in high speed AT systems (10 to \n 16 megahertz system speed).\n \n \n -8-\n\n\n \n WD1007V-MC1, feature F300R - This controller card will support \n up to 2 ESDI hard disk drives, 15 megabit per second transfer \n rate and it contains a ROM BIOS with \"shadow RAM\" that will \n enable the controller card to interface with all types of ESDI \n hard disk drives without modifying the system BIOS. It uses 1:1 \n interleave. The \"V\" boards can run in high speed AT systems, \n (10 to 12 megahertz bus speed).\n \n \n \n CONTROLLERS FOR FLOPPY DISK DRIVES ONLY\n \n \n WD1002A-FOX - Half-slot floppy disk controller for XT or AT \n systems. Four versions of the board are available:\n Feature F001 supports two floppy disk drives.\n Feature F002 supports four floppy disk drives and includes \n an optional 37-pin control, data and power connector and \n an optional 4-pin power connector.\n Feature F003 supports two floppy disk drives and includes \n a ROM BIOS that will enable your system to recognize \n floppy disk drives that may not be supported by your AT \n system ROM BIOS. The optional ROM BIOS will also allow \n this controller card to operate high density floppy disk\n drives in an XT system.\n Feature F004 supports four floppy disk drives and includes \n an optional 37-pin control, data and power connector, an \n optional 4-pin power connector and a ROM BIOS that will \n enable your system to recognize floppy disk drives that \n may not be supported by your AT system ROM BIOS. The \n optional ROM BIOS will also allow this controller card to \n operate high density floppy disk drives in an XT system.\n \n\n\n-- \n Prof. L. Piacenza - Chemistry Department - University of Transkei\n Internet: chpp@unitrix.utr.ac.za (preferred). Tel. 27-471-3022384\n Internet: sppp@hippo.ru.ac.za\n\n\nFrom necis!mydual.uucp!olson@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 5 12:14:06 1993\nReceived: from transfer.stratus.com by ponder (5.61/1.36)\n\tid AA29202; Mon, 5 Apr 93 12:14:03 -0500\nReceived: from necis.UUCP by transfer.stratus.com (4.1/3.12-jjm)\n\tid AA22183; Mon, 5 Apr 93 13:12:04 EDT\nReceived: from mydual by necis.necis.ma.nec.com id aa21760; 5 Apr 93 12:50 EDT\nReceived: by mydual.UUCP (5.58/smail2.5/09-28-87)\n\tid AA18009; Mon, 5 Apr 93 13:24:23 EST\nDate: Mon, 5 Apr 93 13:24:23 EST\nFrom: \"Kirtland H. Olson\" \nMessage-Id: <9304051824.AA18009@mydual.UUCP>\nTo: drice@ponder\nSubject: Re: Drive/Controller Compatibility\nNewsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware\nIn-Reply-To: \nOrganization: The Harvard Group, 01451-0667\nReply-To: necis!olson%mydual.uucp@transfer.stratus.com\nCc: \nStatus: OR\n\nSuggest you move jumper on drive rightward one position.\n\nRegards,\n\n --Kirt\n", "Where can I get xman source? I would like to get the binaries for\nxman for an HP 9000/700, but I would settle for source. \n\n--", "***********************************************\n PANASONIC PHONE WITH ANSWERING MACHINE\n\n - LOOKS LIKE A BRAND NEW \n - ALL BASIC ANSWERING MACHINE FUNCTION\n - 8 PHONE NUMBER MEMORY + RECALL FUNCTION\n - 1 YEAR OLD\n \n ASKING FOR $45.00\n\n\n Interest? Please call me at 206-720-1089", " \nIt is also much easier to scribble corrections on a hard-copy manual.", "Selling X-men for the C64/128 for only $10 plus shipping.\n\n\nfirst email gets it...", "\nThe reason they place their outside corner at the location you requested\nis because that's what the ICCCM says they should do.\n\n\nThis code will almost certainly break. Calling XMapWindow and then\nXFlush does not guarantee that the window is visible and managed by the\nwindow manager. Even if this did work, there isn't a reliable way to\nfind out how much decoration the window manager placed around your\nwindow, so you don't know how far to move it. And what if the window\nmanager refuses to move your window?\n", "\nExcuse me but... have not all Macs got a CPU!!!", "\n\nAaahh... a problem very near and dear to my heart. In our case, other\nmonitors cause this problem - the deflection coil of other monitors to be\nspecific. Have also seen a monitor backed up to a fuse panel exhibit this\nproblem. This sounds like your problem since flourescent lites, motors, etc\nseveral 10s of feet away seem to me to be too far to cause it, but the\njuice running to them must pass nearby your monitor. Fusebox on other side\nof wall maybe?\nWe started spec'ing Panasonic CT-1331Y video monitors (3 switchable input\nlines(vid & aud) S-VHS on one) <$400. This stopped the wavy interference\neffect on the computer monitor next to it. \nNow on to your problem. You need what is known as mu shielding (very\ncommon, in fact almost mandatory on electrostatic deflection type\nO'scopes).\nI talked to a EE prof. He said get a coffee can, cut both ends off, mount\naround deflection coil of interfering monitor. \nBE CAREFUL TO AVOID ALL HIGH VOLTAGE CIRCUITRY. ESPECIALLY THE THICKER HIGH\nVOLTAGE ANODE LEAD USUALLY COLORED RED. IF YOU KILL YOURSELF, DON'T\nBLAME/SUE ME!!! USE PLASTIC OR OTHER NON-CONDUCTING STAND-OFFS AND SUCH TO\nMOUNT CAN.\nNow, I would assume that what is good for keeping mag fields in is also\ngood at keeping them out, so hopefully this'll work by mounting shield on\nmonitor being interfered with as well. If not, start shielding those other\nsources.", "Is it possible to rip an external SyQuest removable drive out of its\nexternal casing and install it into the 5 1/4\" empty bay slot on a\nCentris 650? I know a special bracket would need to be purchased, but\nis there any power hookup/SCSI constraints that would prevent it? If\nanyone has done it, could they mail me some instructions. It doesn't\nseem to be that overwhelming an undertaking.\n\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------", "*** On 04-19-93 03:53, Wayne Mcdougall had the unmitigated gall to say this:\n\n WM> The software is Netware 286 Level II and I can see burnt on to the\n WM> screen SFT Netware 286 Level II V2.0a. However, to configure netware\n WM> for level II (mirrored or duplexed disks) requires a second disk, yes? \n\n Yes. Mirroring requires a controller that is capable of writing to two\n disks at once. Duplexing, which is the preferred way of mirroring, uses\n two controller cards and two disk drives. Duplexing requires a special\n card and two identical disk drives (in most cases). Duplexing can\n sometimes be pulled off with slightly different drives/controllers, as long\n as the sizes are the same.\n\n WM> So how is the Novell Server 286A normally configured?\n\n The configuration is completely up to the user.\n\n WM> 1. Can I install SFT Netware 286 Level II V2.0a as Level I, or is this\n WM> what is causing my serialization error?\n\n If you only have one disk, then you can't use Level II SFT. However, the\n OSOBJ disk has a serial number on it, and if this disk is for a different\n version of NetWare then you would get a serialization error. Make sure\n that this disk actually belongs to the rest of the set of floppies in the\n NetWare installation set.\n\n WM> 2. Is the Novell Server 286A normally equipped with two hard drives,\n WM> one of which has failed?\n\n Two drives could be either two netware volumes at SFT I, or one volume\n mirrored using SFT II. Impossible to tell with the network being down.\n\n WM> 3. Would this mean I can not install the network software because it\n WM> will not be serialized for this hardware with a failed drive?\n\n Try disconnecting the failed drive, using a standard disk controller, and\n installing the software as one volume under SFT I. If the software will\n install, and if the one disk is functional, then it should be able to work\n in this configuration.\n\n WM> 4. What else can cause a serialization error?\n\n See the comment concerning the serial number on the OSOBJ installation\n floppy.\n\n WM> 5. What happens if the keycard fails?\n\n What is the keycard attached to?\n\n\n... Line noise provided by South Central Bell!\n--- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10\n ", "\nHere's something I posted about this a few years ago. It's not fully\nup to date with all the new variations (some of which are just different\nmanufacturer's synonyms):\n\n------\nIn practical terms, ignoring the technological details, this is my view\nof the families (NB I am not a giant corporation, which influences my\nviews on things like availability and backward compatibility):\n\n74\tThe original. Speed good, power consumption fair. Effectively\n\tobsolete now; use 74LS or later, except for a *very* few oddball\n\tfunctions like 7407 which are hard to find in newer families.\n\n74H\tModification of 74 for higher speed, at the cost of higher\n\tpower consumption. Very obsolete; use 74F.\n\n74L\tModification of 74 for lower power, at the cost of lower speed.\n\tVery obsolete; use CMOS.\n\n74S\tLater modification of 74 for even higher speed, at some cost in\n\tpower consumption. Effectively obsolete; use 74F.\n\n74LS\tCombination of 74L and 74S, for speed comparable to 74 with lower\n\tpower consumption. Best all-round TTL now, widest variety of\n\tdevices.\n\n74F\tFast as blazes, power not too bad. The clear choice for high\n\tspeed in TTL. Availability and prices generally good.\n\n74AS\tFailed competitor to 74F, although a few 74AS parts do things\n\tthat are hard to find in 74F and thus are still useful.\n\n74ALS\tPossible replacement for 74LS. Generally souped up. Still fairly\n\tnew, availability and prices possibly a problem.\n\n74C\tFairly old family, CMOS devices with TTL pinouts. Competed with\n\t4000 series, not too successfully. Obsolete; use 4000 or newer\n\tCMOS 74 families.\n\n4000\t(Thrown in as the major non-74 non-ECL logic family.) The old CMOS\n\tfamily, still viable because of *very* wide range of devices, low\n\tpower consumption, and wide range of supply voltages. Not fast.\n\tVery forgiving and easy to work with (beware static electricity,\n\tbut that comment applies to many other modern logic families too).\n\tThere are neat devices in this family that exist in no other. The\n\tclear choice when speed is not important.\n\n74HC\tA new attempt at 74-pinout CMOS. Fast compared to old CMOS, power\n\tconsumption often lower than TTL. Possibly a good choice for\n\tgeneral-purpose logic, assuming availability and affordability.\n\tCMOS logic levels, *not* TTL ones. Beware very limited range of\n\tsupply voltages compared to older CMOS, also major rise of power\n\tconsumption at faster speeds.\n\n74HCT\t74HC with TTL logic levels. Much the same comments as 74HC. Read\n\tthe fine print on things like power consumption -- TTL compatibility\n\tin CMOS involves some compromises.\n\n10K\t(Thrown in for speed freaks.) The low end of ECL. Various sources\n\tclaim that it is *easier* to work with than super-fast TTL for\n\tserious high-speed work. Less forgiving, though: read and follow\n\tthe rules or it won't work. Availability to hobbyists limited,\n\tcan be expensive.\n\n100K\t(For real speed freaks.) Hot ECL. Harder to handle than 10K, and\n\tinconvenient packages. Much more useful datasheets, however.\n\nAs for compatibility between families: the 74 families (except 74C and\n74HC) are all more or less logic-level compatible, but how many 74X devices\nyou can drive from one 74Y output varies enormously with X and Y. You just\nhave to read the specs and do the arithmetic. 74C and 74HC are compatible\nwith the others with a bit of hassle. 4000 compatibility can be a bit of\nhassle or a lot of hassle depending on what supply voltage 4000 is using.\n10K or 100K to anything else is considerable hassle.\n\nMe? I use 4000 and 74LS with a sprinkling of 74F. 74HC[T] and 10K are\ninteresting but I haven't used either significantly yet.", "\nI'm using DRDOS 6.0 with SuperStor for nearly 2 years now, and I'm wondering, if\nMSDOS 6.0 could keep up with it at last. Is there anybody who tried out both? \nWhat about this Double-Disk ? (had lots of problems with SStor too.)\nHow much memory do you get? (I've got 616K with EMM and SStor)\nWhat about the on-line help (Really great in DRDOS)\nAny help appreciated.\n \n", "\n\n Yip, we had the same problem; the only fix we found was to link static\nsome of the clients, ( btw, we used cc). :-(.\n", "I am wanting to upgrade from a 386SX-25, to a 486DX-33, and are looking at a\ncheap quote from someone offering me a 486DX-33 motherboard, with no ram in\nit. (I will probably sell my old m-board off somewhere)\nNow, I have 4 meg of RAM in my 386, which consists of\n\n4 x 9 module 1024KB simms, running at 70 nanoseconds.\n ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nWould I encounter problems with the pointed out areas, by throwing these from\none computer to the other?", "\n\nCorel Draw 4 will be able to do this as it will include the Photopaint stuff that \nthe PC version got with version 3. Don't hold your breath though.\n\n--\nChris Lilley\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTechnical Author, ITTI Computer Graphics and Visualisation Training Project\nComputer Graphics Unit, Manchester Computing Centre, Oxford Road, \nManchester, UK. M13 9PL Internet: C.C.Lilley@mcc.ac.uk \nVoice: +44 (0)61 275 6045 Fax: +44 (0)61 275 6040 Janet: C.C.Lilley@uk.ac.mcc", "I have two UN-opened, NEW Epson Action Printers 2250 for sale. \nList price at CompUSA is $169, I'm asking $100 + shipping for each.\n\nMy friend and I got the printers at a promotional event at one of\nthe CompUSA stores near our area. We didn't need printers, so we're \nselling it.\n\nSpecs for printer:\n\n9-pin dot matrix printer\n240 cps Draft, 40 cps NLQ\n50 sheet paper tray (Does single sheets!)\nPrints on letterhead\nSmall footprint (Can be used either flat or upright!)\nQuiet operation\ncan support an optional tractor feeder\ncomes with Full (2-year) manufacturer's warranty\n\nif interested reply to: phillyg@acs.bu.edu\n\nTrades are welcome!!!", "Could someone tell me if the ATI graphic ultra pro is supported in a version\nof vpic now.\nIf so where is it located.\nthanks\nRobert\n\nemail replies would be appreciated :-)\n", "I have a 386/33 with 8 megs of memory\n\nI have noticed that lately when I use programs like WpfW or Corel Draw\nmy computer \"boggs\" down and becomes really sluggish!\n\nWhat can I do to increase performance? What should I turn on or off\n\nWill not loading wallpapers or stuff like that help when it comes to\nthe running speed of windows and the programs that run under it?\n\nThanx in advance\n\nDerek\n", "If you are interested in (any of) the following, please contact me:\n EMail mbeck@vtssi.vt.edu\n Phone (703)552-4381\n USMail Michael Beck\n 1200 Progress Street #5500E\n Blacksburg, Virginia 24060\n~~~~~~~~~~FOR SALE as of 12AM 4/16/93~~~~~~~~~~\n \n1 PANASONIC AF X8 CCD OmniMovie Camcorder\n VHS HQ\n High Speed Shutter\n Flying Erase Head\n ca. 3 years old, but only used VERY lightly\n Date/Time stamp\n Counter/Memory\n Rec Review\n Fade\n Back Light\n Auto/Manual Focus\n Built in microphone/Jack for external microphone\n Comes with:\n Sturdy aluminum/hardplastic carrying case\n (20\" long X 13\" wide X 6\" high)\n Shoulder strap\n Power adaptor/battery charger\n Battery pack\n Remote recording controller\n UHF/VHF ---> cable adaptor\n Audio/Video cables and adaptor\n Aproximate dimensions (measured around outmost features)\n 15\" long X 4\" wide X 8\" high (w/ handle)\n ASKING PRICE: $BEST OFFER so far $350, but looking for more \n ($700 new price)\n \n1 AMIGA 3000UX 25mhz, unix compatible machine w/100 meg Hard\n Drive, 4 meg RAM, no monitor, keyboard (ESC and ~ keys \n broken)\n ASKING PRICE: $1500 OBO.\n \n1 Hewlett Packard ThinkJet Printer w/ HP-IB interface \n Like NEW in original box\n ASKING PRICE: $250 OBO.\n \nSOLD!! AT&T Portable Cellular Phone, Model 3730\n ASKING PRICE: $SOLD FOR $350 (Listed at $600 new)", "\nOK, I've asked this before, and with a new thread on these lines, I\nask this again:\n\n1: If a large hole current is run thru a resistor, will there be\n I^2 * R cooling instead of heating?\n\n2: Can anyone design an amplifier that preferentially amplifies\n hole currents over normal electron currents?\n\n3: what semiconductor materials have the highest ratio of\n hole mobility to electron mobility? (please quote actual\n test samples rather than estimates based on theory. Also,\n don't be limited to semiconductors: consider also insulators,\n resistors, dielectrics, piezo-electrics, conductors,\n magnets (metal, ceramic), magnetostrictives, etc).\n\nNOTES:\n\n to summarize, this thread has so far stated that the only area\n where holes are not detectable is the vacuum. That is, hole\n particles only exist in the presence of matter.\n Previous threads have stated that holes only exist in certain\n semi-conductors. The question that naturally arises is if\n the hole currents inside a semi-conductor vanish at the point\n where the semiconductor is joined to a conductor (say, copper).\n I don't want a theoretical discussion here about whether\n holes could exist inside metal conductors, rather I ask for\n an experimental discussion on how to amplify and detect such\n currents *if* they exist.\n Also note that I have cross-posted this to sci.electronics\n since this is now becoming an electronic discussion.\n\nThanx,\nEric.\n\n----\n ET \"A Force of Nature\"", "Hi all!\n\tQuick question. Could someone please send me a pinout of\nthe cable that goes between a NeXT cube and the monitor? Also,\nI am interested in the video signal (sync type, horz/vert rate)\nso any information on that would be greatly appreciated also.", "Trade your old PC for my new modem.\nModem comes with coupond good for travel to/from Europe.\n\n14.4 v.42bis modem\n\nMODEM FEATURES:\nMNP5 2-to-1 Compression & Error Correction\nV.42bis 4-to-1 Compression & Error Correction\nCCITT V.32bis Compatible (14.4k bps)\nCCITT V.32 Compatible (9.6k bps)\nCCITT V.22bis Compatible (2.4k bps)\nAT Command Set Compatible\nCompatible with IBM PC/XT/AT/386's and Compatibles\nBundled with Communications Software\nPC Bus interface\nTwo RJ11C Connectors: Phone and Line", "Help!\nHow do you write to the second bank/page of memory when in VGA\n320x200x256 colour mode?. ie: to perform page flipping animation\nand buffering of the screen.\n I have tried using the Map Mask Registers, but this does not\nperform the required task (Although it does do something).\n\nNote: It *must* be able to work on a standard VGA (ie: not\nnecessarily a SVGA card).", "\n\nNote: I am *not* a cable freak, so I might have completely\nmisunderstood what you said. Also, my math is frequently noted for\nbeing wrong, so you'll better check the calculations yourself.\n\nI assume that 14.4K means 14.4K Bits. So if we assume one start and\none stopbit, and no protocol overhead, the effective number of bytes\nper second is 1.44K.\n\nLet's also assume that you do not want to transmit your speech in\nstereo, so that you can send 1,440 samples/sec. This corresponds to a\nNyquist frequency of 720 Hz, which should be too low, especially if\nyou think about the 8-bit low quality sound. Furthermore, your D/A\nconverter will probably not present you with a signal that has been\ncut off at 720 Hz, but will instead alias in all the higher\nfrequencies. (Although you can definitely build a filter to overcome\nthat problem.)\n\nOn the other hand, speech should be easily compressible. For example,\nyou could form power spectra, or you could simply band-pass filter and\nthen linearize the fourier transforms. It won't be CD quality sound,\nbut it'll be discernible. The power spectrum method is very good in\nthat respect. I have once programmed such a software compressor, and\ncompression rates of 90% with relative errors due to linearization of\nless than 5% were common. Although I must say that these were musical\nsounds, not speech.\n\nHave fun.\n", "\nApple has patented their implementation of regions, which presumably\nincludes the internal data structure (which has never been officially\ndocumented by Apple). Apple cannot patent the concept of a region.\n\nI'm guessing that either NuTek reverse-engineered Apple's internal data\nstructure for regions (I dunno if this would hold up in court), or they\ncame up with their own data structure. If it's the latter, then they\nwon't be able to draw PICT files containing regions. Besides PICT files,\nthere aren't many places where regions are stored on disk. (QuickTime\nmovies, perhaps?) As long as the region isn't being stored on disk and\ntransferred from a Mac to a NuTek clone (or vice versa), it doesn't\nmatter if NuTek uses a completely different internal data structure.\n\nI remember reading that Apple also has a patent on their ADB hardware,\nand that the NuTek clones would therefore be lacking an ADB port. What\nother patents does Apple have on the Mac?", "I am in the market for (4) 1 megabyte SIMMS. These must\n\tbe of the 9-chip variety, and also must be 60 nanoseconds.\n\n\tEmail: bitzm@columbia.dsu.edu\n\n\tThanks\n\n", "\n\n Mostly. The Q950 does have a SCSI2 controller chip as it's SCSI\nchip, but it does not have the chips to use the Wide or Fast SCSI-2\nmodes and therefore doesn't offer much more in the way of SCSI\nperformance over the Q900. It does, howrever, have a faster I/O\ncontroller than the Q900; this is where the real speed boost comes from.", "Thanks to Bruce Barnett, who recommended xvttool, and Bernward Averwald and\nLiam Quin, who recommended modifying .Xdefaults to get the desired behavior\nfor a *class* of xterms.\n\nIn xvttool, simply create a key file that looks like:\n\"a\"\t\"A\"\n\"b\"\t\"B\"\n\"c\"\t\"C\"\n...\nand specify said key file on the command line. This will translate\nany input into any other (in my case, lo-case to up-case). Works great, and\nyou get a customizable button-pad on the right or left side.\n\nTo use an xterm solution, add to your .Xdefaults:\ncapxterm*VT100.Translations: #override \\\n a: string(\"A\")\\n\\\n ...\n\nor:\ncapxterm.vt100.translations: #override \\n\\\n a: insert-string(A) \\n\\\n b: insert-string(B) \\n\\\n ...\n\nand invoke as: xterm -name capxterm\n\nThanks loads!", "*** On 04-21-93 04:50, R.x. Getter had the unmitigated gall to say this:\n\n RG> This may be a dumb question, but I need to put a hard drive on my\n RG> father's PC/XT, either MFM, RLL, or IDE. I know how to hook it up, but\n RG> how do I tell the computer the geometry of the drive. On my 386, you\n RG> set it in the BIOS, but I doubt that's how it's done on an XT. I\n\nMost XT IDE controllers are responsible for keeping track of the drive\ngeometry and getting the information to the computer. The controller may\ncome with software to update its on-board BIOS, or may be designed to work\nwith a particular drive. Seagate drives usually have special controllers\nfor use on XT's, and these are tailored to the drive.\n\nAlso, you cannot low-level format an IDE drive. The low-level format is\nstored on specal magnetic areas on the disk surface called \"servos\" (not\nlike the electronic use of the term) that need a higher recording bias than\nthe drive's recording heads can generate. Don't try to low-level format an\nIDE drive!\n\n... P.E.T.A. People for the Eating of Tasty Animals\n--- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10\n ", "Hello - I am in need of a file viewer for 24 bit TIFF images, to run under\n windows (3.1 if it matters); alternatively a package to run an\n X-server on top of windows would do very well. Unfortunately the\n budget for this is limited so whatever I end up using has to be\n public domain or very inexpensive. Thanks in advance for any help,\n\n john\n\n", "I have the Star Micronics SG 24, 24 pin printer for sale. I have used\nwith the AMIGA and IBM computers and it works great. I will throw in\na cable and vinyl cover for $150 plus shipping.\n\nFirst email gets it...\n\nthanx,\n-Dennis L. Neal dlneal@cbda9.apgea.army.mil", " Try WinJPEG on oak.oakland.edu:pub/msdos/windows3/winjp210.zip\n It has more TIFF support than graphics workshop. It also converts to\n all the above formats...", "Hi,\n\nI'm hoping someone out there will be able to help our computer science\nproject group. We are doing computer science honours, and our project\nis to do a 'graphical simulator for a finite state automata'.\n\nBasically, the program must draw a diagram of a FSA from a textual grammar,\nshowing circles for states, and labeled arc's in-between.\n\nThe problem is working out the best way to layout the states, and draw the\narc's in-between so that as few arc's as possible cross each other.\n\nIf anyone has any suggestions/algorithms/bug-free ready to compile C code :) \nthat might help us, it would be much appreciated.\n\nThanks in advance,", "\t I don't think the question is:\n\t\t \"will OS/2 X.X run Windows Y.Y apps now?\"\n\n\t A more important question is:\n\t\t \"will subsequent OS/2 versions continue to run apps\n\t\t from subsequent Windows versions in the future?\"\n -- \n John A. Grant\t\t\t\t\t\tjagrant@emr1.emr.ca\n Airborne Geophysics\n Geological Survey of Canada, Ottawa\n\n\n\tBut the most important question is:\n\t\t\"will there be any OS2 apps, so we don't \n\t\thave to load windows in the future?\"\n\t\n\tand maybe the question of the future will be:\n\t\t\"will windows X.1 run OS2 Y.Y apps now?\"\n\nRegards Hans\n--\n------------------------------------------------------------- \nThe whales of the Atlantic and the people of the Faroe Islands \nhave coexisted in perfect harmony for the last 1000 years -\nno matter what any urban navel contamplator without any real\nrelation to the coherence of the nature says.", "\n\n\n\n\tFortunately, wire-wrapping is a better wiring technique than\nmost at high frequencies; Cray computers (up to the X-MP, at least)\nall had wirewrapped backplanes. Wirewrap gets into trouble at\nmuch higher frequencies than any TTL can handle. The 'increase'\nof wiring capacitance is not really relevant (you have to use\ntransmission line techniques, and the capacitance is no problem).\n\n\n\n\tHand-powered is a terrible choice (IMHO) unless you are\na field maintenance person who will do maybe a dozen connections\nat a time. Your hands will cramp. Battery-powered wire-wrap guns\nare available in the $150 range, and so are the little\ntwiddle-stick manual types ($15). For a modest project, of\na couple hundred connections, I'd prefer to borrow a professional\nAC unit... or a pneumatic one.", "The XView version 3 source distribution included in the contrib section \nof X11R5 included the source to the textedit program. I'd like to take \nthe sources and modify them to add support for a ToolTalk-like message \nserver, and maybe for ToolTalk while I'm at it, since the Sun-supplied\ntextedit binary doesn't seem to speak tooltalk.\n\nHowever, the sources in the R5 contrib area seem to be for an older\nversion of textedit than the version shipped with OpenWindows 3. For\nexample, the OWN 3.0 textedit includes drag and drop support and a \ndropsite in the main control area, while the source in contrib/xview\nknows nothing about drag and drop.\n\nThe textedit.c included in the xview sources says it's version 15.50,\n\n textedit.c 2.62 91/09/14 Copyr 1990 Sun Micro\n dragdrop.c 1.26 91/09/14 Copyr 1990 Sun Micro\n tooltalk.c 2.16 91/09/14 Copyr 1990 Sun Micro\n ds_relname.c 1.7 91/09/14 Copyr 1990 Sun Micro\n\nSo, does anyone know if the 9/14/91 sources to textedit are available?\nI'd really like to work from the latest source if possible.\n\nPlease reply by email, and I'll post a summary if there's enough \ninterest.", "\n\n\nI also use Retrospect, but I noticed that Central Point Software's\n\"MacTools Backup\" also supports the Apple tape drive under 7.x. \nThe Apple tape drive is quite slow, so the advantages of Retrospect\nrelative to the simpler MacTools Backup are less significant than \nmight be the case for someone backing up a large server to a DAT drive. \n\nUsed Apple tape drives are going for ~$100, so it might make less\neconomic sense to pay an extra ~$140 for Retrospect when MacTools \nis cheaper and includes other worthwhile utilities.\n\nRetrospect is nice, though, and I'm probably going to upgrade to 2.0.", "Software that comes together with the VideoBlaster\nis designed to work together with the SoundBlaster\n(from the same manufacturer).\n\nSince I do not own a SoundBlaster: is there a possibility\nto use the PC Speaker driver to play audio files for\nthe VideoBlaster (.AVI = audio video interleave files) ?\n\nI think what I should have is a device driver for\nthe Media Player that controls the PC Speaker Driver\ninstead of the SoundBlaster card (something like MCISPKR.DRV).\n\nHas anybody heard of such a driver?\nOr am I on the wrong track?\n\nAny information on this appreciated!\n\n(Please send e-mail, since I don't watch this group regularly.)\n", "I have a group of GIF images that each contain 6 small images in \nthe same place on all the images. I need a program to crop out the\nsmall images to a new GIF file. All the programs I can find make me\nuse the mouse or keyboard to define the cropping coordinates. Is there\na program out there for a PC that can take the crop coordinates on\nthe command line?", "In the May issue of C't Magazine was an article about upgrading 040 models\nof apple. They simply change crystals and add a fan.\nHammerhead: Centris 610 was able to work with 25 MHz (cooler prefered)\n and for 1000 DM you get an 68040 (33MHz) which works with the\n appropriate crystal at full speed. (extra cooling required) \n Centris 650 like Quadra 700 with extra cooling 33MHz works on\n most machines and for real power enthusiasts they used a\n Quadra 950 at 40 MHz wow! But for better description you should\n get this issue of C't (a german PC magazine!) \n\nChristian Bauer", "\n\t\t\t\t\tart\n", "\nI have the a CD-Technology drive with the Toshiba mechanism, and it is\nsupposedly the fast and best now. It has an access of 200ms and a data\ntransfer rate 300Kb/sec. It is multisession photo-cd compatible. It is\navailable from educorp for $599, the CD-Technology one, and comes with two\nmail in coupons for two free CDs. I'm not sure if the cd's are good, since\nI've only had the drive a little less than a month and had the cd's shipped\nto my home address in california instead of here in maryland. The\nCD-technology drive has a separate power supply separated from the drive,\nwhich supposedly gives it a longer life, and keeps it cleaner with no fan to\nattract dust. A Toshiba brand drive is also available, but I think the\nCD-Technology is better, since you get the same mechanism, and at a slightly\nlower price with two free CDs.\n\nThe Apple 300/330i Drive, Sony Mechanism, is around a 300ms access time I\nthink, and a data transfer rate of 300Kb/sec. I know it is the slowest of the\nthree mentioned here. It is not widely available, except through the apple\ncatalog, which is bad at a price of only $599. It is also multi-session photo\ncd compatible. I think the external model comes with 7 free cds, some of\nwhich are pretty good.\n\nThe NEC drive has been out the longest. it has an access time of 280ms and\na data transfer rate of 300Kb/sec. it is available from many vendors around\n$600 dollars, including Educorp. It wasn't multi-sesssion photo-cd compatible\nbefore, but I hear that the current version that is shipping is. Owners of\nthe older drives can get an upgrade. It does not come with any free cd's\nunless you buy it in a bundle.\n\nOf the three CD-Rom drives above, i think the best choices would be the\nApple drive and the CD-technology(toshiba) drive. The apple drive for it's\ncompatibility with apple products and the cd-technology(toshiba) for it's\nspeed and performance. \n\nBTW, the models of the drives are:\n\nApple: AppleCD 300 or AppleCD 300i (internal)\n\nCD-Technology: CD-T3401 (the Toshiba brand name model I'm not sure, but it\nis also something like with 3401)\n\nNEC: CDR-74\n\n\nI'm very happy with my drive. And have had no compatibility problems\nwhatsoever. If I am wrong about any of the above, do correct me, but I am\npretty sure of myself, even when I think I'm not.\n\nAlso, some of you out there might notice that I have the same last name as\nthe president of CD-Technology which happens to be in southern california,\nmy hometown. However, I AM NOT a relative nor do I know the guy. Liu is\njust a common chinese name, especially in southern california, with the\nenormous chinese community. Besides, one of my doctors in california has\nthree Steve Liu's as patients and another Steve Liu comes to my school and\nlives in the next dorm. This is to show that Liu is very common.\n\nSteve :-)", "\n\n\n\n\n\nI've started to notice the same thing myself. I'm running DOS 5 and Win 3.1 so\nI can fix it from the Windows Control Panel. At times it is the date, at\nothers the clock seems to be running several minutes behind where it should\nbe.\n\nIf you find out I'd like to know also. Oh, and I also leave my system running\nall the time.\n ", "\n\nSee xwd, xpr. Even better, grab xdump from ftp.cs.uwm.edu. It makes use \nof these programs as well, but has a much nicer interface (and can do more).\nYou can dump to PostScript, bitmaps, etc.\n", "I've got a Racet 5.25\" MO Drive with a Ricoh RO-5030E mechanism with the\nnew ROMs... The thing is, I have a new TOSOH Optical Disk 512/bytes per\nsector cart for the thing that refuses to mount or be formatted... all the\ncarts that I have for the drive that work are Racet Certified Media\n512k/sector carts... All I can think of is that this TOSOH cart uses some\nkind of incompatible low level format... anyone know what software will\nallow this to be formatted on this drive? or a new DIP setting for the\nmechanism? I've tried just about every combination of drivers and custom\nformatting programs I can find with no luck... any ideas?", "Before I try to teach myself how to write a widget and (perhaps)\nre-invent the wheel...\n\nIs there a PD widget that displays (for example) an 8-bit grey-level\nimage in the same fashion that the Athena Plotter Widget can be used\nto display a plot?\n", "\nHere's the scoop. When you get your home brew receiver working, would\nyou be willing to share it with the rest of us? I always wanted to\nbuild my own but never have the time to fool around and design it.\n\npin 1: signal ground\npin 2: signal\npin 3: always hot +6 volts\npin 4: +6 volts, hot only when preamp is turned on\npin 5: infrared repeater connectors\n\nThe infrared repeater jacks on the back of the preamp are not connected\nto anything inside the preamp except the 5 pin connector pin #5. There\nis a 150 ohm resistor between the two jacks, with a 1.5K from pin 5 to\nground.\n\nThe signal pin #2 in the preamp is summed with the built in IR receiver.\nThey use a chip called CX20106A and a BJT to amplify the signal. I would\nimagine the logical way would be to duplicate this circuit and use\nit as the external receiver.\n\nIf you need more info, let me know.", "Check out Xicor's new goodie in the April 12th edition of EETimes\nX88C64 - an 8k * 8 E2PROM with built in latch AND bootloader setup.\nYou hook it directly to your '51, power it up, the prom initialises the\nserial port on the '51, you load in your code via RXD, this gets blatted\nonto the E2PROM, then you reset and run - i'm sure Dallas also does\nsomething like this too, i suppose it would boil down to relative\nprices, and the Dallas part freeing up P0 & P2 completely. I wonder\nif ANYONE has ever managed to design a single sided PCB with an\n8051, 573, EPROM, SRAM and >>NO LINKS<< ?\ncheers\nMike.\n", "\n\nSeeing as Motif has been adopted by Sun, IBM, HP +++ (can't remeber the\nother members in the recent announcement), I'm sure you'll see it on\nvirtually every workstation (ie. Sun, IBM, HP and DEC must make up the\n**VAST** majority of all hardware).\n\n\n\n\nPorts of Motif to both 386BSD and Linux are available for a fee of about\n$100. This is cost recovery for the person who bought the rights to\nredistribute. The activity in both the BSD and Linux news groups\npertaining to Motif has been high.\n\n\n\n\nI can't see why. If just about every workstation will come with Motif\nby default and you can buy it for under $100 for the \"free\" UNIX\nplatforms, I can't see this causing major problems.\n\n\nSide Note :\n---------\nAll the X based code I am writing (and will distribute freely when\ncompleted) is based on Motif because from a programmatic and also \"look\nand feel\" point of view I like it the best (no flames on this one\nplease).\n\n\n\nbambi", "\n\nIt has been done already!\n\nIn the UK the Atari ST box was shipped with 360K disks in the first few\nyears and then later 720K disks. In order to make life less complicated,\nmany freebie disks on mags were double formatted like this. Side 0 of the\ndisk had 360K on it and could be read by any ST. It also had a flip-side\nprogram. This would swap the sides around so that side 1 became side 0.\n\n-- ", "I just got an IBM-PC XT with no documents. Its a true\nIBM, and I was wondering if anyone had the definitions\nof the 2 8 position dip switches? ", "I have an IBM and run Windows 3.1. A friend installed Norton Desktop For\nWindows on top of this. It loads automatically when I type \"win\", and\nsurely adds to the (already dismally slow) process of starting up.\n\nI would like to know how to STOP or uninstall this program!!\n\nI have taken it out of win.ini, but it still pops up running with windows.\nI did a big search and found reference to it in ndw.ini, system.ini and\nprogman.ini. Removing it here causes a failure when starting up windows\n(progrman.ini has a \"group 7 = ...ndw.exe...\" which can't be deleted.)\n\nIs there anyone familiar with NDW who can tell me how to turn it off??\n\n\t\tthanks!\t\tChet", "That is correct. in DOS you can use IRQ 7 for your SB.You can't do\nthat under OS/2 because it uses IRQ 7 for the printer\n", "I missed the first article[s] on this line due to not having a\nchance to read the news for a couple of days...\n\nThe idea is commercialized in at least one product, the Private\nEye. That's a small cube-shaped device that the user straps around\nthe head similar to a sweat band. There is a boom that comes from\nthe side on which the device is mounted so that it is positioned\nin front of the user's eye.\n\nThe Private Eye we had here for evaluation was Hercules-MDA\ncompatible. The innards are a row (~400 LEDs) that are swept up\nand down by a galvonometer-like movement. The result is that the\nsweeping LED bar forms a fused raster. There is a virtual image\nprojected in front of the user that the visual system tends to fuse\nwith the background.\n\nI didn't like the device very much. I found it easiest to use if I\nlooked at a blank white wall. I had problems with focus tracking\nif I glanced down to look at my keyboard for an out-of-the-way key.\nThe unit also emitted a soft buzz and vibration which I found\nannoying. Some people didn't seem to mind the buzz. Properly\nused, however, the image clarity was quite crisp.\n\nI don't know if the company has taken the technology any further in\nthe last year or two, but it did seem to have promise.\n\n", "I have a pair of AKG 340 headphones for sale. They are an electrostatic\ndyanmic headphone; a dynamic element for the bottom end and an electrostatic\nfor the high end. They are very comfortable and sound very nice. They are\nin like new condition. I would like $220CDN for the pair.\n\nBrett Maraldo\n\n", "I am currently looking for a 3D graphics library that runs on MS\nWindows 3.1. Are there any such libraries out there other than\nVisuallib? (It must run on VGA and should not require any other\nadd-on graphics cards).\n\nFor Visuallib, will it run with Metaware High C compiler v3.0? Any\nemail contact for the author of Visuallib?\n\nAny help would be much appreciated. Thanks.\n\n", "This is the 2nd Reguest for Discussion ( RFD ) for the creation of \ncomp.databases.ms-access \n\nThe discussion period started on April 6 and it will last until April 28,\n( 22 days ).\n\nThis is an official RFD for the creation of a new newsgroup for the\ngeneral discussion of the Microsoft Access RDMS.\n\nNAME: COMP.DATABASES.MS-ACCESS\n\nMODERATION: UNMODERATED. At this time, no need for a moderator has been\nassertained. Future evaluation will determine if one is needed.\n\nPURPOSE: \nAccess is a new RDBMS for the Windows Operating System. It includes WYSIWYG\ndesign tools for easy creation of tables, reports, forms and queries and a\ndatabase programming language called Access Basic.\nTHe purpose of the group will be to provide help to people who use Access's \nWYSIWYG design tools to create simple databases as well as to people who use \nAccess Basic to create complex databases.\n\nRATIONALE:\nEventhough Access is a new RDBMS, it is very popular because of its Graphical\nDevelopment enviroment and its initial low price.\nBeen a version 1.0 product means that all Access users are Novices.\nFor that reason a newsgroup is needed where Access users can discuss \ntheir experiences with the product and answer each other's questions.", "\n\txli, xloadimage or ImageMagick - export.lcs.mit.edu [18.24.0.12] /contrib", "You are pervert.. Ok vi is not CUA but it has a powerful set of commands.\nOne for all it has 26 separate clipboard (and not only one ofor all kind of\ndata like Windows does).\nThe only problem is to Know the commands (the keyboard shortcut).\nI am quite fast with the pc keyboard... and I usually use all fingers to digit\nso when I use a editor I do not want to leave the keyboard and use the mouse\nevery time I need a special Function on the menu or to use the arrow keys\nthat are away from the usual position of my hands on the keyboard......\nIn my situation vi is very powerful and I'm searching to a vi editor \nfor Windows....\nBye\np.s. sorry for the bad english....\n\n", "I'm looking for a pair of inline skates (aka roller blades) new or used for\nless than $60.00 including shipping.\nSize 11.\n\nStrider | SUNY @ Buffalo | psr@acsu.buffalo.edu\nLord Mayor, The Hill People | (716) 636 4862 | V127MHSK@ubvms.bitnet\n\n\"Son, I am able,\" she said, \"though you scare me.\" \"Watch,\" said I, \"beloved.\"\n\n-- \nStrider | SUNY @ Buffalo | psr@acsu.buffalo.edu\nLord Mayor, The Hill People | (716) 636 4862 | V127MHSK@ubvms.bitnet", "We developed a toolkit running on the X Window System.\nThe toolkit copes with any languages based on X11R5's i18n\nfacility. As you know, there are 2 kinds of i18n implementation from MIT's \nX11R5 release -- Xsi and Ximp. Our original implementation of the toolkit\nuses Xsi.\n\nOur toolkit manages each character's size based on our own font management system.\nIn order to do that, the 'wchar_t' typed character strings must be decomposed\nto character sets. This means that if one wchar_t type compound string with \nASCII and Kanji mixed, for example, is given, each element of the wchar_t\narray must be checked its corresponding character set based on a bit layout\nand application environment's locale. In this case if the locale is 'japanese',\neach wchar_t character will be classified either to iso8859-1, jisx0208 or so.\n\nWe need a function to do this. The function must check how many characters\nfrom the top are the same character set and what the character set is.\n\nWe could not find any public X11R5 function to do that and inevitably, used\nXsi's internal functions to construct that function. The following is the\nsource code of that function 'decomposeCharacterSet()'.\n\n\n//I18N.h\n// This may look like C code, but it is really -*- C++ -*-\n// $Id: I18N.h,v 1.1 1992/01/21 12:05:24 iima Exp iima $\n\n#ifndef _I18N_H\n#define _I18N_H\n\n#include \n\nextern int decomposeCharacterSet(const wchar_t *wc_str,\t/* IN */\n\t\t\t\t int wc_len,\t\t/* IN */\n\t\t\t\t char *buf,\t\t/* OUT */\n\t\t\t\t int *buflen,\t\t/* IN/OUT */\n\t\t\t\t int *scanned_len,\t/* OUT */\n\t\t\t\t char **charset);\t/* OUT */\nextern XmString wcharToXmString(const wchar_t *wc_str);\nextern XmStringCharSet charsetOfWchar(const wchar_t wc);\n\n#endif /* _I18N_H */\n\n//I18N.cc\n/* $Id: I18N.cc,v 1.1 1992/01/21 12:05:05 iima Exp $ */\n\n#include \n#include \n#include \n#include \"I18N.h\"\n\nextern \"C\" {\n#include \n#define _XwcDecomposeGlyphCharset XXX_XwcDecomposeGlyphCharset\n#define _Xmbfscs XXX_Xmbfscs\n#define _Xmbctidtocsid XXX_Xmbctidtocsid\n#include \"Xlocaleint.h\"\n#undef _XwcDecomposeGlyphCharset\n#undef _Xmbfscs\n#undef _Xmbctidtocsid\n extern int _XwcDecomposeGlyphCharset(XLocale, const wchar_t*, int,\n\t\t\t\t\t char*, int*, int*, int*);\n extern Charset *_Xmbfscs(XLocale, _CSID);\n extern _CSID _Xmbctidtocsid(XLocale, _CSID);\n};\n\nint decomposeCharacterSet(const wchar_t *wc_str,/* IN */\n\t\t\t int wc_len,\t\t/* IN */\n\t\t\t char *buf,\t\t/* OUT */\n\t\t\t int *buf_len,\t\t/* IN/OUT */\n\t\t\t int *scanned_len,\t/* OUT */\n\t\t\t char **charset)\t/* OUT */\n{\n XLocale xlocale = _XFallBackConvert();\n int ctid;\n int status;\n Charset *xcharset;\n \n status = _XwcDecomposeGlyphCharset(xlocale, wc_str, wc_len, buf,\n\t\t\t\t buf_len, scanned_len, &ctid);\n if (status == Success) {\n\txcharset = _Xmbfscs(xlocale, _Xmbctidtocsid(xlocale, ctid));\n\t*charset = (xcharset) ? xcharset->cs_name : NULL;\n }\n else\n\t*charset = NULL;\n return status;\n}\n----------------\n\nAn included file above, \"Xlocaleint.h\", is also Xsi internal and we copied\nthe file to the toolkit directory and compiled.\n\nA serious issue occured when we tried to compile a toolkit application on\nour HP machine with its OS version of HP-UX9.01.\n\nWhen we tried to link an application based on our toolkit,\nlink errors occured saying that the following functions are missing:\n _Xmbctidtocsid (code)\n _Xmbfscs (code)\n _XwcDecomposeGlyphCharset (code)\n _XFallBackConvert (code)\n\nWe had used MIT release version of X11R5 and its Xsi implementation until\nHP-UP9.0 and ran applications successfully. One of the reasons to use Xsi was that\nbecause HP did not release HP's X11R5 until the OS 9.0 and we had no way to \nknow how HP's R5 would be implemented. We had hoped Xsi's popularity and used \nits internal functions. \n\nThe HP's linker complains that there are no Xsi internal functions implemented.\nWe observe from HP's libX11.a, they used some Ximp implementation but we are\nnot sure if they used MIT's vanilla Ximp version or their own version of Ximp and\ntherefore, finding just counter part functions in MIT's Ximp for Xsi does not\nseem to lead us a solution.\n\nMy question and goal is to know how we can construct a function like\n'decomposeCharacterset()' listed above. Is there any function to check\ncharacter set of each element of wchar_t type strings depending on locales?\nIf it is a public function, that is perfect but even if it is not, we\nwant to use any internal functions in HP's X11R5 as we did for MIT's R5.\n\nIn order to render a 'wchar_t' type string, there must be some machinery\nto judge character sets and that is how the proper fonts are selected for\nthe string. We have no way to find out that without any HP's X11R5 source \nfiles. We want to know how we can use that for our goal. \nAny help or comments would be highly appreciated.\n\nI also appreciate if anyone tell me about Ximp treating around this area\neven if it is not HP's implementation.\n\nThank you.\n", "Are complex bio-medical images available anywhere on the net for \nexperimentation? By complex I mean that every sampled data point has \na magnitude and phase information both. ", "Hi Netters!\n\nI'm looking at purchasing some sort of backup solution. After you read about\nmy situation, I'd like your opinion. Here's the scenario:\n\n1. There are two computers in the house. One is a small 286 (40MB IDE drive).\n The other is a 386DX (213 SCSI drive w/ Adaptec 1522 controller). Both \n systems have PC TOOLS and will use Central Point Backup as the backup / \n restore program. Both systems have 3.5\" and 5.25\" floppies.\n\n2. The computers are not networked (nor will they be anytime soon).\n\nFrom what I have seen so far, there appear to be at least 4 possible\nsolutions (I'm sure there are others I haven't thought about). For these \noptions, I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has tried them or sees \nany flaws (drive type X won't coexist with device Y, etc.) in my thinking \n(I don't know very much about these beasts):\n\n1. Put 2.88MB floppy drives (or a combination drive) on each system.\n Can someone supply cost and brand information? What's a good brand?\n What do the floppies themselves cost?\n\n\n2. Put an internal tape backup unit on the 386 using my SCSI adapter, and\n continue to back up the 286 with floppies. Again, can someone recommend a\n few manufacturers? The only brand I remember is Colorado Memories. Any\n happy or unhappy users (I know about the compression controversy)?\n \n\n3. Connect an external tape backup unit on the 386 using my SCSI adapter, and\n (maybe?) connect it to the 286 somehow (any suggestions?)\n\n\n4. Install a Floptical drive in each machine. Again, any gotcha's or \n recommendations for manufacturers? \n\nI appreciate your help. You may either post or send me e-mail. I will\nsummarize all responses for the net.\n\nThanks,", "\n\n\nIt clearly depends on the type of questions you are asking but in many\ncases it will do fine. The critical information from the neuron is in\nthe firing frequency (maximum about 100 action potentials per\nseconds), and not in the amplitude of the signal or in details of the\nsignal shape. So the resolution of about 0.4 % you get with an 8 bit\nconvertor is more then sufficient.\n\nAC coupling does not have to be a problem either, since in many cases\nyou are not interested in the DC level. My pre amplifier is AC coupled\nalso. The critical point is the lowest frequency that will pass. If\nthe cutoff point is to high, the action potentials will be slightly\ndistorted. But even that normally does not matter since it is the\noccurrence of the spike that is important. \n\nHowever, I do want to know what exactly I can expect before I start\nbattling with the toolbox to get it going. As yet I have no clue were\nto start looking for the technical specifications.", "\n\nBack in the 70's I was a service technician for a cash register company.\nThe cash registers used microprocessor circuits and back then they were\nVERY susceptible to electrostatic discharge and line noise. The biggest\nproblems came from outlets that were not properly grounded.\n\nIn almost every place we went to do an installation, we found outlets\nwith the ground connected to the neutral. For 99.9% of the things you\ncan plug into one of these, they work fine. For our cash registers they\nwere a nightmare -- line noise tended to scramble the memory\nperiodically.\n\nWith modern electronics using switching power supplies this should be\nless of a problem. Even the company I used to work for is no longer\nrecommending a dedicated line with a seperate ground for their\nequipment. I imagine if you check MOST household wiring you will find\nthat the ground and neutral are connected. Although not ideal, it\nshould be o.k. for most applications.\n\n---\n . SLMR 2.1 . My reality check just bounced.\n ", "\n\n\n\n\nScott --\n\nlook on ftp.cica.indiana.edu for gws.....zip. They embed the release\nnumber in the name, and I'm not sure what the lates is. It is Graphics\nWorkshop. There is a DOS and a Windows version. Both work Great. I even\nhad someone bring me some images from the Amiga, and converted them to\ngreat looking wallpaper as 256-color .BMP files\n\nIf you can't find it, repost, or let me know, and I'll dig up the archive.\n\ndave\n-- ", "I was wondering if somebody knows of a PD program for converting\nany graphic formats such as fig, pic, unixplot, tek, etc. to\ngremlin. Thanks,", "\nAs a followup, this is a co-worker's machine. He has the latest 2.03 drivers.\nIt only happens using the 1024x768x256 driver. Sometimes it takes a minute\nor so for the cursor to wig out, but it eventually does in this mode. I\nsusect something is stepping on memory the video card wants. I excluded\na000-c7ff in the EMM386 line and in system.ini The problem persisted.\nPerhaps it is something specific to the Gateway machine or it's components.\nIt is a 66mhz DX/2 Eisa bus with an Ultrastore (24xx?) controller. Ah well,\nI was hoping this was some kind of 'known problem' or somebody had seen it\nbefore. Perhaps a call to Gateway is in order, but I do find folks here\nusually are far more in the know.", "Hi,\n\n Does anyone know how to redirect the stdout and stderr of a program to\n a callback function in X ? The program does not fork() a child process\n so I guess I can't use pipes.\n\n Can anyone help ?\n\n Thanks,", "I am writing some utilies to convert Regis and Tektonic esacpe sequences \ninto some useful formats. I would rather not have to goto a bitmap format. \nI can convert them to Window Meta FIles easily enough, but I would rather \nconvert them to Corel Draw, .CDR, or MS Power Point, .PPT, files. \nMicrosoft would not give me the format. I was wondering if anybody out \nthere knows the formats for these two applications.\n\n", "Someone asked me if I there existed an init that removes the dialog\n \"you're gonna disconnect all apletalk users \" or something\nlike that, when the powerbook falls asleep.\n\nHe said he was sure that such a thing existed, and he thought it was\nfreeware. Can anyone help me out with this ?", "\nYes, I remember that now. Well, in that case, the cones are indeed\ncolor sensitive, contrary to what the original respondent had claimed.\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "\n486DX2/66 is faster for this if you are using DOS. PC Mag reviewed a bunch\nof 486DX2/66 and a 486DX50 and the486DX2/66 was faster...\n\nTHe review was in the last month of two.\n\n\nGuy", ":-> \n:-> I am looking for a WIN31 driver (or set) for my Diamond \n:-> Speedstar 1MB video card. Does anybody know of an archive\n:-> site that has these? I looked at CICA and it had drivers for\n:-> the Stealth card and for Generic ET4000 cards but not one \n:-> specifically for the Speedstar. Is there one? Or has Diamond\n:-> dropped the Speedstar out of the driver development loop.\n:-> \n\nI just looked at CICA yesterday and noticed that they didn't have \nanything, but I seem to remember seeing something at WUARCHIVE in the \n/mirrors/msdos/windows3 directory. I think I got my 3.1 drivers from \nAmerica Online though.\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\n\t\t\tmmeltzer@wam.umd.edu is", "\nWell, I saw a few posts on this and asumed that everyone is talking about \nthe new 14\" display... mine does it to... kinda like when I would degauss \nmy old 13\", and since the new one lacks this button, I assume that is \nwhat it is doing... anyone that knows I'd appreciate the info, but it \ndoesn't worry me...", "--\n\nI would like to be able to detect the angular position (low accuracy) of an\nIR emitting source at a distance of about 100 meters (more is better) in\ndaylight. The IR source could be emitting a signature; I'm leaning toward\n30 KHz square wave with 50% duty cycle.\n\nI am considering the use of a quadrant detector from Centronic Inc. to give\ninformation to a pan/tilt head to point the sensor and thus determine the\nangles. For the source I am considering wazing the heck out of an IR LED(s),\npossibly an Optek OP290 or Motorola MLED81. Wazing would mean at least 1 Amp\ncurrent pulses. At this current the duty cycle of the LED drops to 10% and I\nwould need to cycle five of them in turn to get the 50% required.\n\nHas anyone done something like this?", "Just got a ss24X based on its good ratings, but am a little\nunder-impressed. First, is it's performance in 16.7 mill. supposed\nto be comparable to a Trident 8900 (or other unaccelerated VGA)? I \ncame up with only OK performance on WinSpeed. In 256, it was between\ngood and great. Second, does anyone know where to get that JPG viewer\n\"for the SS24X\". I saw it on cica or something. Does it work better.\n\nThanks for any help.\n\nGreg\n\n", "Hi. I'm looking for a 3D shark for use in a ray tracing rountine I'm doing.\n I'll be using Vivid or POV, but it can be in any format. Are there any\n FTP sites with 3D objects or does anyone have a good 3D shark?\n\nThanks alot!\n\nChad\n\n", "\n\nI've been using the XmGraph widget that's been floating around and I\nnoticed the performance is significantly better using Gadgets, perhaps\neven 100% faster. I had heard in an old programming course that gadgets\nwere no longer any benefit to performance, and that it's just as well\nto use widgets everywhere. So why would ~50 pushbutton gadgets be a lot\nquicker than 50 pushbuttons in the graph? Should I start putting gadgets\nback into my long pulldown menus? \n\nXmGraph manages children connected by XmArc widgets in a directed network\ntype graph with automatic layout capability.\n\n\nBill\n", "What files do I need to download for GhostScript 2.5.2? I have never used\nGhostScript before, so I don't have any files for it. What I *do* have is\ngs252win.zip, which I downloaded from Cica. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to\nwork on it's own, but needs some more files that I don't have. I want to run\nGhostScript both in Windows 3.1 and in MS-DOS on a 386 PC (I understand there's\nversions for both environments). What are all the files I need to download and\nwhere can I get them? Any info would be appeciated.\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n Steve W Brewer rewerB W evetS\n cl238405@ulkyvx.louisville.edu ude.ellivsiuol.xvyklu@504832lc", "I have a 486/33 VLB machine, with a Wang 96/24 fax/modem.\nWhen using the windows terminal application, the only way\nI can get it to 'see' the modem is to change it to COM2,\nthen go back and change it to COM4. Then it works fine.\n(I have it set to COM4 as the port to use) I don't have\nanything plugged into COM2, and I've looked over the manual\nfor all it's worth, but what am I missing? The modem is \njumpered for COM4/IRQ3, which I understand means I can't\nuse the second serial port and the modem at the same time,\nbut I'm not using the second serial port anyway.\nAlso, when using Procomm + for DOS, it always sees the modem\nand dials, but doesn't always connect me when the other end\nanswers. Don't know if that helps any.\n\nThanks,", "Here follows a headerless (my editing) email message in full (except for the\nheader) sent to me by congruent corporation today. I received it about 5\nminutes ago, and still haven't read it.\n\nHave fun.\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nProduct Overview\n\tAllows Existing Unix/X Applications to be hosted on Windows NT\n\tIncludes Common X Support Clients\n\tSupports X Terminals\n\tProvides Multiuser NT\n\tFacilitates Porting Unix/X Applications to Window NT\n\tBSD Behavior\n\tX Programming Libraries\n\t\nTarget Market\n\tCustomers With Unix/X Applications Who Want To Standardize On Windows NT\n\tAllows Hosting On Windows NT With Minimal Effort\n\tPermits X Clients On Single Windows NT System To Support Multiple Users\n\tX Servers Can Be X Terminals, Unix Based, NT Based, Windows Based\n\t\nBSD Library Behavior\n\tMinimize Unix Porting Effort\n\tLayered Above Standard C Libraries/WINSOCK\n\tNT Registry Path/Drive Replacement\n\tBSD Include File Layout\n\tTrue Berkeley Sockets\n\tSupplies Common BSD Functions Missing From NT\n\nX Programming Libraries\n\tComplete X.V11R5 Libraries\n\tMotif Widget Libraries\n\tMotif UIL\n\tRegistry Based X Configuration Locator\n\tDirect to Windows GDI via \"local socket\" winnt:0\n\nX Support Applications\n\tIncludes Full Set Of X Client Applications\n\tMotif Window Manager (MWM)\n\nMultiuser NT Capabilities\n\tNtNixTerm: Special Adaptation of Xterm\n\tSpecial NT Hosted Command Shell\n\tProvides LOGNAME, HOME facilities\n\tMultiple Users on Multiple X Servers Can Simultaneously Access Single NT System\n\nX Terminal Support\n\tBOOTP to Boot X Terminals\n\tTFTPD For Font Loading\n\tFont Server For Scaled X Fonts\n\tXRemote for Serial SLIP X\n\ninfo@com.congruent (Congruent Information)\n-- \nsnail@lsl.co.uk ", "I hear that the Performa 450 is really an LCIII with an internal modem. Can\nthe modem part be obtained and installed in an LCIII? It would be nice if it\nwere actually a powerbook internal modem, but that might be too much to hope\nfor.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n", "On an A/D board I've got, I'm using the A/D lines. It measures \nthe voltages properly, ie: with a 7v power supply it reg's 7v and with \n5v, it reg's 5v. Problem is when I've got the input voltage, and I wish \nto lower it via a resistor. The sensitivity of the board is so great \nthat I can triger it with holding the 5/7v wire in one hand, and touch \nthe probe and it will register the full input voltage. A 1m resistor \nonly lowers voltage by .1v so this is not too feesable. \n \n What could the problems be and what else could I use\nto lower the input voltage? (btw I've got it grounded correctly)\n \n \n _________________________________________________\n Inspiration | ___ |\n comes to | \\ o baden@sys6626.bison.mb.ca |\n those who | ( ^ ) baden@inqmind.bison.mb.ca |\n seek the | /-\\ =] Baden de Bari [= |\n unknown. | |", "We have a minivas-2 and we want to record to an Abekas A66.\nWe have most of the functions working but when we go to\nset up a record the minivas hangs. We are sending the\nabekas SMPTE time code. Does anyone have code we can\ncompare to what we have done and is there and ftp site\nfor minivas and abekas code.\n\nGordon Phillips\nglp@cray.com", "I have 1 4Mx9 70ns 36pin SIMM for Sale. It is in perfect condition. It\nwill not work in my system because it requires 72 pin SIMMS.\nI would like to get what I paid for it. $115 + 3 for insured shipping.", "Hi. I am having some interesting problems with my Boca graphics card, which \nis based on the Cirrus Logic chipset (I am not sure exactly which one). The\nproblem is as follows:\n\nIf I use any Windows driver at 800x600 except for the 64K-colour driver (ie\n16 colour or 256 colour), the image on screen becomes too tall - no amount of\nresizing on the monitor will make it fit. And if I use Excel with the 64K-\ncolour driver, it hangs as soon as it loads. Anyone out there used this\ncard/experienced anything similar.\n\nPlease reply by mail, and I will post any solutions here.\n\nRegards\n\n - Simon\n\n\n--\n", "Electronics Art's Ultrabots game for sale with book and original\n3.5\" disks in the original box. \n\n\t- $22 or best offer.", "I have a 90 Eagle Talon and I wanted a pair of GTS \nHeadlight covers. Actually, they are turning signal\ncovers since the Talons that year had pop-up lights.\nI went to a auto shop and bought the tail-light \nblackouts for $45, but they did not have the turning\nsignal covers in stock. I asked how much it would be\nand he told me it would cost me another $40. I thought\nthis was a bit high for two small pieces of plastic.\nCan anyone find me a cheaper pair or even a used one?\n", "I would like a reference to an algorithm that can detect whether \none closed curve bounded by some number of bezier curves lies completely\nwithin another closed curve bounded by bezier curves.\n\nThanks.", "I quit windows normally to run a special DOS app, got done with it\nand tried to start windows. Ok got the title screen, Windows\nbackground, DOS with an error about loading PROGMAN.EXE. Hum, yep\nPROGMAN.EXE is still there. Must be bad, ok pull off PROGMAN.EXE\nfrom a backup tape, start windows, get the windows title screen,\nwindows background, DOS with the same error. HUM! Fire up the\ngood ol' Norton Disk Doctor, test, 500 lost clusters! Ok, fix them,\nand look through them, doesn't look important. Remove the Windows\ndirectory, and reinstall from disks. Fire up windows, title screen,\nbackground, Program Manager, Success! \n\nI have a 486/50 (Amy) with 4 meg of RAM, 120 meg HD, SVGA, running under\nDOS 5.0, no special memory managers or stuff, just the basic Windows 3.1\nA 12 meg permanent swap file using 32-bit Access. I mainly use Windows\nto run more that one DOS app at a time. (ie downloading with Qmodem\nwith a DOS window open, and possibly POV running in the background.) \n\nI've noticed that since I started using Windows a few months ago, lost\nclusters have gotten more and more common. Although I don't like\nhaving data just disappear, it really haven't been a problem except\nfor today. Has anyone else had any problems with lost clusters while\nrunning windows? And what could I do to fix the problem, I'd sleep\nbetter knowing Amy wasn't loosing her marbles. :)\n\nSteven", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\nSo patch the ROMs with the latest OS version. I don't see\nhow this is a problem.\n\n", "\n\n\nSame in Sweden (the ergonomic keyboard is great, BUT!\nthe palm rests do NOT fix to the keyboard; they just sort\nof rests against the table. Too bad when you have the\nkeyboard in your knee...\n\nCheers,\n\n\t\t\t\t\t/ h+", "Can anyone out there tell me how to get the total number of color cells\nallocated in the default colormap?\n\ne.g. colormap = DefaultColormap(mydisplay, myscreen);\n\nThe MAXIMUM number of allocated cells is given by DefaultCells(mydisplay,\nmyscreen), but in general the number of cells actually allocated will be\nmuch less than this, depending on the color requirements of the windows\ncurrently in place. I'd like a way to determine this number. Thanks in\nadvance!\n\nDerek\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------", "Help: I am running some sample problems from O'Reilly volume 4,\nXt Intrisics Programming Manual, chapter 3. popup\ndialog boxes and so on.\n\nIn example 3.5, page 76 : \"Creating a pop-up dialog box\"\n\nThe application creates window with a button \"Quit\" and \"Press me\".\nThe button \"Press me\" pops up a dialog box. The strange feature of\nthis program is that it always pops up the dialog box much faster the\nfirst time. If I try to pop it up a 2nd time (3rd, 4th .... time), \nit is *much* slower.\n\nHas anyone any experience with these sample programs, or why I get\nthis behaviour - fast response time for the first time but slow response\ntime from 2nd time onwards ?\nAnyone can give me some ideas on how to program popups so that each time\nthey popup in reasonable fast response time ?", "I have the local bus card also, and don't have any such problems with it\nnow, but this is the second card I've gotten - the first card didn't work\nin VGA mode correctly. Maybe they still have some quality control problems.\nI would suggest checking with ATI (I went through the vendor I bought the\ncard from since the problem showed up immediately). I never was able to\nget through to ATI's technical support number. \n\nI sure like the way the card performs though. I have the 2MB ATI ultra\npro - local bus, and it is fast even in 1024x768x16bpp mode.\n\n\nCheers,\nPhil\n\n", "I need to duplicate a bunch of floppy disks (3.5\") and ideally would like to\nbe able to keep 2 to 4 floppies busy simultaneously on a single PC.\n[Yes, I know that services to do this exist.] \n\nI know that standard ISA bus floppy controllers can only have one drive active\nat a time. I know that some controllers are available that can handle 4 \nfloppies with serialized access. I know that microchannel machines can keep \nmore than one floppy active simultaneously. But does anyone have a controller \nfor an ISA bus PC that can simultaneously keep 2 to 4 floppies going?\nHow about for an EISA machine?\n\nIf the limitation is a software limitation, I can work around that by using\nOS/2 1.3 on my PC-286.\n\nNew or used, I'm interested.\n\n\n\norville", "Tektronix 453 scope for sale:\n\n - 50MHz bandwidth\n - portable (NOT one of the 5xx series boatanchors! :^)\n - delayed sweep\n - works fine\n - I don't have the manual (they are available from various places)\n - no probes\n\n - $275 + shipping\n\nEmail me for more info...\n\nRegards,\nKeith\n", "-- \nPAOLO,MARC ANTHONY\nGeorgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332\nuucp: ...!{allegra,amd,hplabs,ut-ngp}!gatech!prism!gt4661a\nInternet: gt4661a@prism.gatech.edu\n", "\nTry WorkShift by Karl Thoreddson. The latest version is 2.0 (or later?) but\nthe following is at Cica in the Desktop directory.\nWRKSFT16 ZIP : WorkShift Graphical Virtual Desktop (ver 1.6)\n\nOr email Karl and ask him to put version 2.0 up\nKarl's email: karlth@rhi.hi.is (from the MS-Write file of v1.6)\n\nI was Beta tester for WorkShift and must say it is very good\n(I gain nothing from saying that).\nIt'll even remember your WorkShifts (WorkSpaces as you said) between\nWindows sessions.", "\nTommy Frandsen's VGAlib (which is probably what you're talking about)\nwill do the standard VGA modes, some tweaked modes and then the Tseng\nET4000 Super VGA modes. I have an ET4000 and I'm viewing GIF's at\n640x480/256 (I have a lousy/small monitor) with dpg-view on Linux. I\nthink I had to change some constants in the dpg-view sources to make it\nuse the ET4k modes.\n\nVGAlib's sources seem to be designed for easy addition of new Super VGA\nsupport; each mode is an array of register values and there's a program\nthat dumps an array declaration of this kind describing the current\nmode. Haven't tried it though...\n\n(Btw, my version of VGAlib is 1.2.)\n", "\nThere are 2 books published by M&T BOOKS that come with C source code on\nfloppies. They are:\n\nProgramming In 3 Dimensions, 3-D Graphics, Ray Traycing, and Animation\nby: Christopher D. Watkins and Larry Sharp.\n\nPhotorealism and Ray Tracing in C\nby: Christopher D. Watkins, Stephen B. Coy, and Mark Finlay.\n\nI have the first book and it is a great intro to 3-D, Ray Tracing and\nAnimation. Most of the programs are on the disk compiled and ready to run.\n\nI have only glanced at the second book but it also appears to be good.\n\nHope this helps!\nMark Larsen\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\nmarkl@hunan.rastek.com", "Does anyone know of bigger raster fonts? I'm using a Mag 15H monitor with\na Diamond SS24X in 1280x1024 mode and would prefer to have larger characters\nfor the windows heading (practically for everything). I'm already using the\n8514 character sets.\n\nmark", "\n\n Since Image Writer LQ was discontinued, there is no Apple Talk\n printer with 11\"*15\" continous paper printer.\n\n I would like to know is there are any possibility to connect\n an IBM compatible printer to an Apple Talk net directly (or \n with a Net Serial hardware), and if I need any other software\n to do it.\n\nI've have not found quite the solution yet. The following comes from\nMacUser's MiniFinders:\n\nThe Grappler IIsp is a dot matrix-printer interface cartridge that\nemulates the Imagewriter LQs. Includes networking and spooling\nsoftware that allows multiple users... $159 Orange Micro 714-779-2772 \n\nIf you find out any more information, please let me know because in\nthe future I have the same problem, or if anyone else has the\ninformation please post. Thanks\n", "exit\n\n\n\n", "For Sale:\n DOS 4.01, with original manuals, box, and\n either 5.25\" or 3.5\" disks (full version, \n\tNOT OEM).\n\n\t** $15.00 (including all shipping charges) **\n\t** please respond! bitzm@columbia.dsu.edu **\n\n\n\n\n", "Has anyone seen hallusions? You can buy a poster of them and it looks like a simple dot pattern\nwhen you first look at it but if you focus behind it you see a 3d picture. I'm looking for\na program that generates these pictures. There's a company in Texas that makes them but I \ndoubt if they're giving the program away. Any help would be appreciated. \n\n", "Does is include raquetball? Is it good at Espree? What is the annual fee?", "I am creating a graphics program using the Athena widgets. I use\nXlib routines to install a custom Graphics Contex by obtaining the display,\nand window variables with the XtWindowOfObject() and XtDisplayOfObject().\nThe object was one of the sub widgets. \n The problem occurs that whenever a button is pressed or a menu is selected\nthe graphic contex reverts to the orginal one. I tried moving the allocation\nof the graphic context before the allocation of the buttons but nothing\nchanged. I am preforming all of this manipulation before calling \nXtAppMainLoop().\n\nThank you for any help.\nLeslie Donaldson", "I have the task to program a X application for the first time and have some severe difficulties creating a window in which I can draw something.\nUnfortunately some basic books on the topic of X application programming are not available to me for the moment.\n\nI am running a hp720 with hpux 8.07, VUE and X11R4 using Xt anbd Xaw.\n\nWhat I did until now:\nI initialized the X Intrinsics cxreating a top level widget with XtAppInitialize. I passed as a application_class name 'commandWidgetClass'.\nThen I set the argument values for window height and width using XtSetArg and\npassed it to the toplevel widget with XtSetValues.\nWhen I call XtRealizeWidget, I get a window of the specified size, but I have no idea how I can draw something in it.\n\nCan anybody send me some help and perhaps some basic information how to use the widgets ?\nIn which situation it is useful to use them and in which not ?\n\nThanks very much in advance\n\nSoenke\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Soenke Voss Faculty of Economics\nsoenke@wiwi12.uni-bielefeld.de University of Bielefeld\n Germany ", "\n\nYou've got to set border_pixel in your window attributes. The default\nis CopyFromParent which gives the BadMatch. Do this:\n\n ...\n unsigned long valuemask;\n ...\n /*\n * if border_width is non-zero you'd better alloc a colour from cmap\n * rather than use any old pixel value. Also, use valuemask, it makes\n * the code more obvious.\n */\n attr.colormap = cmap;\n attr.border_pixel = 0;\n valuemask = CWColormap | CWBorderPixel;\n win = XCreateWindow(\n dpy,\n DefaultRootWindow(dpy),\n 10,10,\n width,height,\n 0,\t\t /* border width. see comment below */\n 8, /* depth */\n InputOutput, /* class */\n vinfo.visual, /* visual */\n valuemask,\n &attr\n );\n\nA note on border_width: your code looked like this:\n\n\nborder_width set to CopyFromParent works but doesn't make sense.\nborder_width should be an unsigned int. You get away with it because\nCopyFromParent is #define'ed to be zero in X.h. If it happened to be\ndefined as -1 you'd get a very interesting looking window!", "Archive-name: typing-injury-faq/software\nVersion: 1.8, 7th December 1992\n\nThis FAQ is actually maintained by Richard Donkin .\nI post it, along with the other FAQ stuff. If you have questions, you want\nto send mail to Richard, not me. -- Dan\n \n \n\t\t Software Tools to help with RSI\n\t\t -------------------------------\n \nThis file describes tools, primarily software, to help prevent or manage RSI.\nThis version now includes information on such diverse tools as calendar\nprograms and digital watches...\n \nPlease let me know if you know any other tools, or if you have information\nor opinions on these ones, and I will update this FAQ.\n\nI am especially interested in getting reviews of these products from people\nwho have evaluated them or are using them. \n \nRichard Donkin \nInternet mail: richardd@hoskyns.co.uk \nTel: +44 71 814 5708 (direct)\nFax: +44 71 251 2853\n\nChanges in this version:\n\n Added information on StressFree, another typing management tool \n for Windows.\n\n\nTYPING MANAGEMENT TOOLS: these aim to help you manage your keyboard use,\nby warning you to take a break every so often. The better ones also include\nadvice on exercises, posture and workstation setup. Some use sound hardware to\n \nwarn of a break, others use beeps or screen messages.\n\nOften, RSI appears only after many years of typing, and the pain has\na delayed action in the short term too: frequently you can be typing\nall day with little problem and the pain gets worse in the evening.\nThese tools act as an early warning system: by listening to their\nwarnings and taking breaks with exercises, you don't have to wait for your \nbody to give you a more serious and painful warning - that is, getting RSI.\n\n \n Tool: At Your Service (commercial software)\n Available from:\n\tBright Star\n\tTel: +1 (206) 451 3697\n Platforms: Mac (System 6.0.4), Windows\n Description:\n\tProvides calendar, keyboard watch, email watch, and system info. \n\tWarns when to take a break (configurable). Has a few recommendations\n\ton posture, and exercises. Sound-oriented, will probably work best \n\twith sound card (PC) or with microphone (Mac). Should be possible\n\tto record your own messages to warn of break.\n \n Tool: AudioPort (sound card and software)\n Available from:\n\tMedia Vision\n\tTel: +1 (510) 226 2563\n Platforms: PC\n Description:\n\tA sound card to plug into your PC parallel port.\n\tIncludes 'At Your Service'.\n \n Tool: Computer Health Break (commercial software)\n Available from:\n\tEscape Ergonomics, Inc\n\t1111 W. El Camino Real\n\tSuite 109\n\tMailstop 403\n\tSunnyvale, CA\n\tTel: +1 (408) 730 8410\n Platforms: DOS\n Description:\n\tAimed at preventing RSI, this program warns you to take\n\tbreaks after a configurable interval, based on clock time, or\n\tafter a set number of keystrokes -- whichever is earlier.\n\tIt gives you 3 exercises to do each time, randomly selected from\n\ta set of 70. Exercises are apparently tuned to the type of work\n\tyou do - data entry, word processing, information processing.\n\tExercises are illustrated and include quite a lot of text on\n\thow to do the exercise and on what exactly the exercise does.\n\n\tCHB includes hypertext information on RSI that you can use \n\tto learn more about RSI and how to prevent it. Other information\n\ton non-RSI topics can be plugged into this hypertext viewer.\n\tA full glossary of medical terms and jargon is included.\n\n\tCHB can be run in a DOS box under Windows, but does not then\n\twarn you when to take a break; it does not therefore appear\n\tuseful when used with Windows.\n\n\tCost: $79.95; quantity discounts, site licenses.\n\n Comments:\n\tThe keystroke-counting approach looks good: it seems better\n\tto measure the activity that is causing you problems than to\n\tmeasure clock time or even typing time. The marketing stuff\n\tis very good and includes some summaries of research papers,\n\tas well as lots of arguments you can use to get your company \n\tto pay up for RSI management tools. \n\n Tool: EyerCise (commercial software)\n Available from:\n\tRAN Enterprises\n\tOne Woodland Park Dr.\n\tHaverhill, MA 01830, US\n\tTel: 800-451-4487 (US only)\n Platforms: Windows (3.0/3.1), OS/2 PM (1.3/2.0) [Not DOS]\n Description:\n\tAimed at preventing RSI and eye strain, this program warns you to take\n\tbreaks after a configurable interval (or at fixed times). Optionally\n\tdisplays descriptions and pictures of exercises - pictures are\n\tanimated and program beeps you to help you do exercises at the\n\tcorrect rate. Includes 19 stretches and 4 visual training \n\texercises, can configure which are included and how many repetitions\n\tyou do - breaks last from 3 to 7 minutes. Also includes online help \n\ton workplace ergonomics. \n\n\tQuote from their literature:\n\n\t\"EyerCise is a Windows program that breaks up your day with periodic\n\tsets of stretches and visual training exercises. The stretches work\n\tall parts of your body, relieving tension and helping to prevent\n\tRepetitive Strain Injury. The visual training exercises will improve\n\tyour peripheral vision and help to relieve eye strain. Together these\n\thelp you to become more relaxed and productive.\"\n \n\t\"The package includes the book _Computers & Visual Stress_ by Edward C.\n\tGodnig, O.D. and John S. Hacunda, which describes the ergonomic setup\n\tfor a computer workstation and provides procedures and exercises to\n\tpromote healthy and efficient computer use. \n\t\n\tCost: $69.95 including shipping and handling, quantity discounts\n\tfor resellers. Free demo ($5 outside US).\n \n Comments:\n\tI have a copy of this, and it works as advertised: I would say\n\tit is better for RSI prevention than RSI management, because it\n\tdoes not allow breaks at periods less than 30 minutes. Also, it\n\tinterrupts you based on clock time rather than typing time, which\n\tis not so helpful unless you use the keyboard all day. Worked OK on\n\tWindows 3.0 though it did occasionally crash with a UAE - not sure\n\twhy. Also refused to work with the space bar on one PC, and has\n\tone window without window controls. Very usable though, and does not\n\trequire any sound hardware.\n\n Tool: Lifeguard (commercial software)\n Available from:\n\tVisionary Software\n\tP.O. Box 69447\n\tPortland, OR 97201, US\n\tTel: +1 (503) 246-6200\n Platforms: Mac, DOS (Windows version underway)\n Description:\n\tAimed at preventing RSI. Warns you to take a break\n\twith dialog box and sound. Includes a list of exercises\n\tto do during breaks, and information on configuring your\n\tworkstation in an ergonomic manner. Price: $59;\n\tquantity discounts and site licenses. The DOS product is\n\tbought in from another company, apparently; not sure how\n\tequivalent this is to the Mac version.\n\t\n\tThe Mac version got a good review in Desktop Publisher \n\tMagazine (Feb 1991). Good marketing stuff with useful \n\t2-page summaries of RSI problems and solutions, with \n\treferences.\n \n Tool: StressFree (commercial software, free usable demo)\n Available from:\n\tLifeTime Software\n\tP.O. Box 87522\n\tHouston\n\tTexas 77287-7522, US\n\tTel: 800-947-2178 (US only)\n\tFax: +1 (713) 474-2067\n\tMail: 70412.727@compuserve.com\n\n\tDemo (working program but reduced functions) available from:\n\t Compuserve: Windows Advanced Forum, New Uploads section, or \n\t\t\tHealth and Fitness Forum, Issues At Work section. \n\t Anon FTP: ftp.cica.indiana.edu (and mirroring sites)\n\n Platforms: Windows (3.0/3.1) (Mac and DOS versions underway)\n Description:\n\tAimed at preventing RSI, this program warns you to take\n\tbreaks after a configurable interval (or at fixed times). \n\tDisplays descriptions and pictures of exercises - pictures are\n\tanimated and program paces you to help you do exercises at the\n\tcorrect rate. Quite a few exercises, can configure which ones\n\tare included to some extent. Online help.\n\n\tVersion 2.0 is out soon, Mac and DOS versions will be based\n\ton this.\n\n\tCost: $29.95 if support via CompuServe or Internet, otherwise $39.95. \n Site license for 3 or more copies is $20.00 each.\n\t (NOTE: prices may have gone up for V2.0).\n \n Comments:\n\tI have had a play with this, and it works OK. Its user interface\n\tdesign is much better in 2.0, though still a bit unusual.\n\texpensive tool around and it does the job. It is also the only\n\ttool with a redistributable demo, so if you do get the demo, post it\n\ton your local bulletin boards, FTP servers and Bitnet servers!\n\tDoes not include general info on RSI and ergonomics, but it does \n\thave the ability to step backward in the exercise sequence,\n\twhich is good for repeating the most helpful exercises.\n\n Tool: Typewatch (freeware), version 3.8 (October 1992)\n Available from:\n\tEmail to richardd@hoskyns.co.uk\n\tAnonymous ftp: soda.berkeley.edu:pub/typing-injury/typewatch.shar\n Platforms: UNIX (tested on SCO, SunOS, Mach; character and X Window mode)\n Description:\n\tThis is a shell script that runs in the background and warns you\n\tto stop typing, based on how long you have been continuously\n\ttyping. It does not provide exercises, but it does check\n\tthat you really do take a break, and tells you when you\n\tcan start typing again. \n\n\tTypewatch now tells you how many minutes you have been typing\n\ttoday, each time it warns you, which is useful so you\n\tknow how much you *really* type. It also logs information\n\tto a file that you can analyse or simply print out. \n\n\tThe warning message appears on your screen (in character mode),\n\tin a pop-up window (for X Windows), or as a Zephyr message\n\t(for those with Athena stuff). Tim Freeman \n\thas put in a lot of bug fixes, extra features and support for \n\tX, Zephyr and Mach.\n\n\tNot formally supported, but email richardd@hoskyns.co.uk\n\t(for SCO, SunOS, character mode) or tsf@cs.cmu.edu (for Mach,\n\tX Window mode, Zephyr) if you have problems or want to give \n\tfeedback.\n\n Tool: Various calendar / batch queue programs\n Available from:\n\tVarious sources\n Platforms: Various\n Description:\n\tAny calendar/reminder program that warns you of an upcoming\n\tappointment can be turned into an ad hoc RSI management tool.\n\tOr, any batch queue submission program that lets you submit\n\ta program to run at a specific time to display a message to\n\tthe screen.\n\n\tUsing Windows as an example: create a Calendar file, and\n\tinclude this filename in your WIN.INI's 'load=' line so\n\tyou get it on every startup of Windows. Suppose you\n\twant to have breaks every 30 minutes, starting from 9 am.\n\tPress F7 (Special Time...) to enter an appointment, enter\n\t9:30, hit Enter, and type some text in saying what the break\n\tis for. Then press F5 to set an alarm on this entry, and repeat \n\tfor the next appointment.\n\n\tBy using Windows Recorder, you can record the keystrokes\n\tthat set up breaks throughout a day in a .REC file. Put this\n\tfile on your 'run=' line, as above, and you will then, with\n\ta single keypress, be able to set up your daily appointments\n\twith RSI exercises.\n\n\tThe above method should be adaptable to most calendar programs. \n\tAn example using batch jobs would be to submit a simple job\n\tthat runs at 9:30 am and warns you to take a break; this will\n\tdepend a lot on your operating system.\n\n\tWhile these approaches are not ideal, they are a good way of forcing \n\tyourself to take a break if you can't get hold of a suitable RSI \n\tmanagement tool. If you are techie enough you might want to\n\twrite a version of Typewatch (see above) for your operating\n\tsystem, using batch jobs or whatever fits best.\n\n Tool: Digital watches with count-down timers\n Available from:\n\tVarious sources, e.g. Casio BP-100.\n Description:\n\tMany digital watches have timers that count down from a settable\n\tnumber of minutes; they usually reset easily to that number, either\n\tmanually or automatically. \n\n\tWhile these are a very basic tool, they are very useful if you\n\tare writing, reading, driving, or doing anything away from\n\ta computer which can still cause or aggravate RSI. The great\n\tadvantage is that they remind you to break from whatever you\n\tare doing.\n\t\n Comments:\n\tMy own experience was that cutting down a lot on my typing led to\n\tmy writing a lot more, and still reading as much as ever, which\n\tactually aggravated the RSI in my right arm though the left\n\tarm improved. Getting a count-down timer watch has been\n\tvery useful on some occasions where I write a lot in a day.\n\n\tI have tried an old fashioned hour-glass type egg timer, but\n\tthese are not much good because they do not give an audible\n\twarning of the end of the time period!\n\n\nKEYBOARD REMAPPING TOOLS: these enable you to change your keyboard mapping\nso you can type one-handedly or with a different two-handed layout. \nOne-handed typing tools may help, but be VERY careful about how \nyou use them -- if you keep the same overall typing workload you\nare simply doubling your hand use for the hand that you use for typing,\nand may therefore make matters worse.\n\n Tool: hsh (public domain)\n Available from:\n\tAnonymous ftp: soda.berkeley.edu:pub/typing-injury/hsh.shar\n Platforms: UNIX (don't know which ones)\n Description:\n\tAllows one-handed typing and other general keyboard remappings.\n\tOnly works through tty's (so, you can use it with a terminal or\n\tan xterm, but not most X programs).\n\n Tool: Dvorak keyboard tools (various)\n Available from:\n\tAnonymous ftp: soda.berkeley.edu:pub/typing-injury/xdvorak.c\n\tAlso built into Windows 3.x. \n Description:\n\tThe Dvorak keyboard apparently uses a more rational layout\n\tthat involves more balanced hand use. It *may* help prevent\n\tRSI a bit, but you can also use it if you have RSI, since \n\tit will slow down your typing a *lot* :-) \n", "I have recently purchased a PB170 and have no more use for my\nRasterOps 8XL. It has been a great card. I should have traded it\nwith my IIci, but I forgot. My forgetfulness si your gain.\nGreat 8 bit video that supports:\n\n640x480 (Apple 13\"/14\")\n640x870 (Apple Portrait)\n800x600 (Silly DOS monitor resolution)\n1024x768 (60hz & 75hz)\n1152x870 (Apple 21\")\n\nHas hardware Pan & Zoom and supports virtual desktops up to the size of\n2 Newspaper pages. Includes standard Apple monitor cable or card to BNC,\nyou choose.\n\nI am asking $250 (it's still advertised in MacWorld for up to $499). \nCompletely negotiable. I can get a monitor and sell the pair. I will\naccept offers for software or PowerBook accessory trades.\nMake an offer.\n", "Hi All.\n\n I am working on a project in visual basic ver. 2.0 and I need to show\n PostCript files I am getting from another aplication.\n So, because i can't show PostScript directly form Visual Basic (at least I\n don't know how), i need a utility to convert them to BMP, WMF.\n\n Any help will be appreshieated.\n\n kobi elimelech\n---------------------------------------------------------------\n messges can be sent to me at kobi@asimov.hacktic.nl", "The Only directory I know of that lists commercial and non-commercial\nwidgets is the ICS Widget Data book. ICS sells the widgets for various\nprices. There are also some public domain widgets in the delivery. \n\nThe ICS Widget databook is a subscription kind of thing, where \nyou pay some nominal fee, get a cd with the widgets and then you \ncan use the public domain widgets freely, and selectively activate \nwidgets which you want to purchase the right to use from them. \nThe nice thing about this is that you can purchase whole sets of widgets\nsuch as those used in dataviews. I dont know there pricing schemes\nbut It is often better to buy than to redevelop the more complex \nwidgets, especially if you only one customer to distribute to. \n\nThis is the extent that I know about them except that I got their \ndatabook catalog and it looked impressive (lots o' widgets there)\n\nI dont work for ICS or have any widgets being sold by them.\nhope this helps you.\n-- \nBrian Dealy |301-572-8267| It not knowing where it's at \ndealy@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov | | that's important,it's knowing\n!uunet!dftsrv!kong!dealy | | where it's not at... B.Dylan", "\nThat's kind of extra work that one cannot expect the store people to do.\nIMHO it would be easier if companies sell their software as cheaply as\npossible AND to sell the customers detail manuals (for the brain-deads)\n, quick reference books, how to do books and videos, paid support hot line\n(1-900 :). For the registered purchasers, these can be part of their package.\nI have seen many books to teach people how to use DOS, WP and other software. I\nI suspect either users can't read the manuals or they don't have manuals.\nEither way, there is $$$ to be made. BTW books are quite a bit more\nexpensive to reproduce than a $1 disk.\n\n\nWith the popularity of Multitasking and pseudo multitasking systems\n(eg. OS0.5, Windoze, Mack System 7), it is pretty easy to run a debugger\nand figure out the protection schemes by disassembling/tracing/trapping\nthe application during run time. Schemes like compressed software/\nspecial loaders would be easy pray even to beginner hackers.\n\nHardware keys (unless well designed and *TOTALLY* transparent) is a\npain in the b*t. We having using a piece of software under Windoze\nthat uses a hardware key. The key interfers with the printer stuff\nwith other programs and often has to be unplugged for those software\nto work properly.\n\n\nAll the hacker has to do is to remove/modify code that communicate with\nthe port.\n", "Get Xarchie 2.0 instead.", "I'm writing 'xwall', a simple X version of 'wall', and I want it to\nput a message up on each of a default list of displays. The problem\nis that XOpenDisplay hangs if one of the displays is currently\ncontrolled by xdm (login screen). I've been through the manuals\nand FAQ and don't see a simple way to see if a display is 'openable'\nahead of time, or to get XOpenDisplay to fail after a short period\nof time. Any hints, suggestions, clues, or pointers to info? Thanks...\n", "Hi,\n\nI have the following problem: I have to use a computer for special purposes\nthat doesn't have a monitor and keyboard connected. No monitor isn't a \nprogram - but no keyboard.\nI can't disable the keyboard from BIOS setup (in fact, there is no setup).\nI spoke to someone who said that he had fooled the BIOS with simply\nusing a self-made connector that connects two pins via a resistor.\nPity, pity... I lost contact to the person before getting more detail.\nSo does anyone of you experts can help?\n\nThanks for any hints, even vague ones :-)\n\nThomas", " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nLaser holes are (or were) used to prevent someone from making exact copies \nof a disk. You do not want to write to the damaged disk, only read and use \nthe programs.\n\n\nI remember a program called Copywrite that could copy a disk with a laser \nhole in it. I think it simulates the laser hole. After copying the disk the \nprogram is, if necessary, used in conjunction with a program called Nokey or \nsomething. (The program tells you which program to use)\n\nNo solution.", "\n\n\n Ncd has an excellent document titled \"Host Loading Considerations in the X \n environment\". I received my copy by emailing support@ncd.com. This may\n help out.", "\n\n\nI think you are suffering from some alignment or color\ntable or problems, if a Color Classic is as fast\nas a Quadra rendering to screen.\n\nWhat screen card you use does of course matter much (built-in\nvideo is almost always faster than NuBus)\n\nOr you measured \"scroll entire screen\" where the Color Classic\nhad a VRAM 10\" screen in 4-bit color and the Quadra had a\n21\" 24-bit screen on NuBus :-)\n\nCheers,\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t/ h+", "$Id: open-look-programs.faq,v 1.17 93/03/21 17:17:55 lee Exp Locker: lee $\n\nContents:\n\tSubject: Applications: Application Builders\n\tSubject: Applications: Graphing Tools\n\tSubject: Applications: Utilities\n\tSubject: Applications: Other\n\tSubject: Tools: Terminal Emulators\n\tSubject: Other Commercial Applications\n\tSubject: Applications: toolkit Extensions\n\tSubject: OpenWindows 3 Ports\n\tSubject: XView 3 Ports\n\tSubject: XView 2 Ports\n\tSubject: Games (free and commercial)\n\n\nSubject: Applications: Application Builders\n\nCommercial: DevGuide 3.0\nContact: SunPICS\n lets you use Drag and Drop to create an OPEN LOOK application with\n XView, OLIT, UIT or TNT. Very easy to use.\n\nFree: dirt\n there _might_ be an OLIT port of this UI builder.\n\nCommercial: ExoCode\nContact: Expert Object\n one of the first third-party GUI builders to support OPEN LOOK,\n using the XView toolkit. It was reviewed in SunExpert magazine\n in 1990.\n\nCommercial: ObjectBuilder\nContact: ParcPlace, Debra Frances debra@ParcPlace.COM, +1 303 440 9991\n uib is a user interface builder which supports building applications\n that support both OPEN LOOK and Motif.\tIt generates code for\n ParcPlace's OI C++ toolkit and can make use of user created\n subclasses. Note: `OI' can also display an OSF/Motif GUI at runtime.\n\nFree: wcl\n Uses X resources to specify an Xt widget hierarchy and actions to\n user-defined callbacks. uses OLIT, Xt or Motif.\n\nCommercial: XVT\nContact: XVT Systems (+1 303-443-4223)\n Lets you write code to a common subset of OPEN LOOK, Motif, Microsoft\n Windows, the Macintosh GUI, and even terminals (using curses). You buy\n an XVT toolkit for each environment.\n\n\nSubject: Applications: Graphing Tools\n\nFree: dstool\n XView-based program that plots Lorenz Attractors and other chaotic things\n in real time. Also includes a mathematical expression interpreter.\n ftp: macomb.tn.cornell.edu\n\nFree: ACE/gr -- graph and analysis program, xvgr\nFtp: ftp.ccalmr.ogi.edu [129.95.72.34]; xvgr-2.09.tar.Z in /CCALMR/pub/acegr\n Handles x-y scatterplots, lineplots, bargraphs, FFT analysis, running\n averages, polynomial fits, etc.\n\nFree: robot - a scientific graph plotting and data analysis tool \nContact: Robin Corbet \nDescription:\n Graph plotting in various styles & axes; Data manipulation - arithmetic,\n functions, smoothing, folding, sorting; Fitting to data using Gaussians,\n polynomials, Lorentzians, and/or user defined functions; Annotation of\n graphs; log files; Commands with loops etc.; Colour; PostScript output.\nFtp: astrod.astro.psu.edu (128.118.147.28) in pub/astrod\nFtp: files: robotx0.35.tar.Z - everything\nFtp: files: RobotManual.ps.Z - just the documentation.\nFtp: files: robot.sun4.Z - binary built on a SPARCstation.\nRequirements:\n Robot is XView based. User interface portions of code are written in\n 'C'. Data manipulation code is written in FORTRAN. Hence a FORTRAN\n compiler is also required or the public domain f2c package.\n Alternatively, a SPARC binary is available by anonymous ftp.\n\nSubject: Applications: Utilities\n\nFree: boss\nDescription:\n An OPEN LOOK UI to the Casio BOSS scheduler\n\nFree: props\nFtp: export.lcs.mit.edu /pub/R5untarred/contrib/lib/xview3/clients/props/*\nDescription:\n This is the OpenWindows properties editor, that appears when you choose\n the Properties... item from the WorkSpace menu.\n\nFree: contool\nFtp: from export.lcs.mit.edu\nDescription:\n a special-purpose console-window that can filter out or take special\n action on specified console messages; written by Chuck Musciano.\nRequirements: XView\n\nFree: faces\nDescription:\n displays pictures of people who have sent you electronic mail.\n Violates the Data Protection Act in the U.K.\n\nSubject: Applications: Other\n\n\nCommercial: Bimail 400\nContact: BIM (+32-2-759.59.25) pge@sunbim.be\nX.400-address: C=be;A=RTT;P=BIM;O=Horizon;S=Geurts;G=Patrick\nNotes:\n Bimail is a complete X.400 electronic mail system. It consists\n in a user interface which gives access to all X.400 services\n with a consistent look and feel, a message transfer agent (MTA) system\n which can transfer messages over X.25, TP.4 and TCP/IP (using RFC 1006).\n A gateway to SMTP mail is also available.\n\nFree: calentool\nDescription:\n a day/week/month/year at-a-glance calendar and almanac.\nFtp: export.lcs.mit.edu:/contrib/calentool2.2Xp1.tar.Z\nContact: Bill Randle, Tektronix, Inc. \n\nFree: emacstool\nDescription:\n a SunView program that was converted to XView, and is included with the\nGNU emacs distribution.\n\nFree: Genix\nContact: Ian Darwin \n A genealogy program, written in C using Guide.\n Incomplete as of Jan '93; inquire for details.\n\nFree: WorkMan - Audio CD player for X11 (Sun, Ultrix)\nRequirements: XView libraries\nFtp: Ultrix binary: ftp.hyperion.com in /WorkMan\nFtp: ftp.ucsc.edu in \"incoming\" - database of over 750 CDs\nContact: koreth@hyperion.com (Steven Grimm)\n\nFree: pan - Postit notes\n\nFree: WAIS\nFtp: sunsite.unc.edu\nDescription:\n Networked, distributed text-retrieval system. OLIT-based front end.\nNotes:\n You might to need to add -lce to the Makefile.\n\nFree: xrolo - Rolodex card index/address book\n\nFree: xv_display\nDescription:\n An XView program for showing a text file, like more(1).\n\nCommercial: SearchIt 1.0\nContact: SunSoft or SunExpress \n US: 1-800-873-7869; UK: 0800 89 88 88\n Germany: 01 30 81 61 91; France: 05 90 61 57\nPlatforms: SPARC, Solaris 1.x\nPrice: $249\nNotes:\n SearchIt is a full text search and retrieval application designed to\n improve individual and group productivity. It makes an index to files\n and can later retrieve documents by words or phrases, ranking the results\n in relevance order.\n\nCommercial: ShowMe\nContact: SunSoft\nNotes:\n Conferencing software that lets multiple connected users share the same\n drawing screen, with bitmap capture and moveable pointer.\nRequirements:\n You can only run one ShowMe per computer, so you have to have a CPU per\n conference member.\n\nFree: xvman - Man Pages viewer\n\nFree: xvtdl - ToDo List manager\nFtp: export.lcs.mit.edu /contrib/xvtdl-4.0.tar.Z, /contrib/xvtdl-4.0-README\nRequirements: XView libraries\nContact: Mike Jipping jipping@cs.hope.edu (BITNET: JIPPING@HOPE)\nOrganisation: Hope College Department of Computer Science\n \nFree: name_finder\nContact: richard.elling@eng.auburn.edu +1 (205) 844-2280\nFtp: ftp.eng.auburn.edu [131.204.10.91] pub/name_finder1.2.tar.Z.\nPatches: pub/name_finder1.2.compile.patch1.\nRequirements: OpenWindows 3.0, C++ 2.1 or greater to recompile\nDescription:\n name_finder was orginally designed as a replacement for the name finder\n missing from the OpenWindows Version 3.0 mailtool. It has since grown\n into a tool for several electronic mail related activities including:\n interaction with local ListServ robots for handling mail lists,\n requesting Full.Name style mail aliases from your local PostMaster, and\n providing mailbox status information ala finger(1).\n\n name_finder is written in C++ (cfront 2.1) using gxv++ version 1.1.\n If you don't have access to a C++ compiler, a precompiled sparc\n executable is included in the distribution.\n\nFree: bibcard\tinterface for BiBTeX databases\nRequirements: XView\nFtp: iamsun.unibe.ch [130.92.64.10] in /X11/Bibcard-1.11.tar.Z\nFtp: \tincludes source and SPARC binary for SunOS 4.1.1.\nVersion: 1.11\nDescription:\n GUI for mantaining bibliography databases which can be used with\n LaTeX, TeX and FrameMaker\n\n\nFree: moxftp -- interface to ftp.\nFtp: ftp.chpc.utexas.edu as file /packages/X/xftp.1.1.tar.Z.\nContact: Bill Jones jones@chpc.utexas.edu\nRequirements: X11, OLIT or Motif or Athena widgets\nNotes:\n formerly called xftp.\n compiles under (at least) Ultrix, AIX 3.1.5, AIX 3.2, Convex OS, SunOS,\n Unicos 6.1.4, and IRIX. Uses OLIT.\n BUG: can also use OSF/Motif and Athena widgets.\n\n\nFree: olvwm -- OPEN LOOK Virtual Window Manager\ncontact: Scott Oaks\nFtp: export.lcs.mit.edu in the contrib directory\nPatches: there are two patches\nRequirements: XView 3\nDescription:\n Olvwm is a version of olwm that manages a `virtual desktop' (hence the\n `v' in its name). It shows a little map on the screen, with the\n currently displayed area represented by a little rectangle.\t You can\n move around by dragging the rectangle or with the arrow keys. This\n lets you run several clients (applications) and move the display around\n from one to the other. Olvwm was derived from the OpenWindows 3.0 olwm.\n\nFree: ftptool -- OPEN LOOK front-end to ftp\nRequirements: XView\nFtp: export.lcs.mit.edu in /contrib\n\nFree: Hyperlook\nContact: The Turing Institute\nRequirements: OpenWindows 3 (running the xnews server, not X11)\n Hypertext package written entirely in NeWS. Runtime from turing.com\n in /pub or ftp.uu.net (graphics/NeWS/HyperLook1.5-runtime.tar.Z)\n\nMaestro (ftp from sioux.stanford.edu)\n Multimedia authoring tools, including support for sound, text & video.\nxvnews (ftp from export.lcs.mit.edu)\n An xview-based newsreader for netnews.\n\nFree: xvttool\nFtp: cs.dal.ca:/pub/comp.archives\nFtp: nuri.inria.fr:/X/contrib/clients\nFtp: lth.se:/pub/netnews/alt.sources/volume92/dec/xvttool*.Z\nFtp: src.doc.ic.ac.uk:/usenet/comp.archives/x11/terminal/xvttool\nDescription:\n A vt100/102 emulator, in both XView and SunView versions. Includes\n buttons for the PF keys, etc.\n\nSubject: PostScript and Graphics Viewers\n\nCommercial: pageview - PostScript previewer\nContact: Included in OpenWindows as part of DeskSet.\nNotes:\n Type 1 support only in OpenWindows 3.0.1 under Solaris 2.1.\n Antialiasing support - with colour OpenWindows 3 try pageview -aa -dpi 150\n Note that pageview uses the X11/NeWS server to interpret the PostScript,\n and thus won't run on an X terminal or other non-OpenWindows server.\n It's *not* enough to be runing an OPEN LOOK UI [tm] window manager such\n as olwm.\n\nCommercial: xps - PostScript program editor and previewer\nContact: included with OpenWindows 2.0 under demo and share/src\nNotes:\n Only runs under OpenWindows 2.\n\nCommercial: psh\nContact: included with OpenWindows\n\tsimple interface to NeWS and the OpenWindows server\n\nFree: ralpage\nFtp: export.lcs.mit.edu in contrib/clients\nNotes:\n Crispin Goswell's PostScript interpreter, much hacked.\n Not OPEN LOOK compliant. No Type 1 font support.\n There are other versions of this called `xps', `postscript', etc.;\n don't confuse this `xps' with the one mentioned above.\n\nFree: ghostscript\n(from the Free Software Foundation)\n Supports Type 1 fonts. Not OPEN LOOK based.\n\n\nSubject: Tools: Terminal Emulators\n\nFree: cmdtool, shelltool\nRequirements: XView 3 toolkit\nNotes:\n These are included in the XView source distribution from\n export.lcs.mit.edu in /contrib; they're also included with Sun's\n OpenWindows.\n\nCommercial: SwitchTerm\nContact: Micro Resources Inc., Columnbus, Ohio, USA, +1 614 766-2335\nNotes:\n A version of Xterm with an OPEN LOOK UI, print interface,\n ANSI X3.64 colour escape sequences, etc.\n\nCommercial: IsoTerm\nContact: The Bristol Group Ltd., +1 415 925-9250 and (49) 6105-2945 (Germany)\nRequirements: OpenWindows 3 (??)\nOther Products: IsoTeX, IsoFax, Power Base\nNotes:\n An OLIT-based terminal emulator. I couldn't get the demo version to\n give me a shell prompt, although it did look like it was a pretty fll\n vt340 emulation, with double-height characters, colour, fonts, grahics\n and so forth.\n With the Union Flag (the British flag) as their logo I somehow expected\n an English address, perhaps in Bristol...\n\nSubject: Other Commercial Applications\n\n Contact SunSoft (or Sun) and ask for the Catalyst OPEN LOOK guide,\n which lists over 200 pages of applications.\n\n You can also get the free CDWare CD/ROM, which contains demo versions\n of several popular OPEN LOOK UI applications. Once you've done this,\n you can often simply contact the vendor concerned to have the license\n upgraded from demo, and receive the full product documentation.\n\n\nProduct Name: Author/Editor - SGML-based text editor/word processor\nCompany Name: SoftQuad Inc., +1 416 239 4801, mail@sq.com\nDescription:\n Word processor or text editor that manipulates ISO 8879 SGML documents.\nInterfaces: OPEN LOOK UI (XView), OSF/Motif, Mac, MS/Windows\n \n\nSubject: Applications: toolkit Extensions\n\n\nProduct Name: Xtra XWidgets\nCompany Name: Graphical Software Technology\nE-Mail: info@gst.com\nPhone: 310-328-9338; Fax: 310-376-6224\nKeywords: graphics, library, widgets, spreadsheet, help\nInterfaces: OPEN LOOK, Motif\nPlatforms: SPARC, HP9000s300/400/700, IBM RS6000, Interactive 386\nRequirements: X11, Xt, Xol (or Xm) libraries and headers; X11\nPrice: $795/single user, $3000/network, $5000/source\nSupport-Price: $400/30 calls\nSource-Available: yes\nDescription:\n The Xtra XWidget library contains a set of widgets that are subclassed\n from and compatible with either OLIT or Motif widgets. The library\n includes widgets that implement the following: Spreadsheet, Bar Graph,\n Stacked Bar Graph, Line Graph, Pie Chart, XY Plot, Hypertext, Hypertext\n based Help System, and Data Entry Form. Widgets have been successfully\n integrated with both TeleUSE from Telesoft and Builder Xcessory from\n ICS. A free demo is available for any of the supported platforms.\n\nProduct Name: XRT/Graph\nCompany Name: KL Group\nE-mail: sun.com!suncan!klg!info, info@klg.com\nPhone: +1 416 594-1026\nDescription:\n XRT/graph is a graph object that extends the XView toolkit; There are\n also Xt versions for OLIT and Motif. XRT/graph supports line plots,\n scatter-plots, strip-charts, bar charts, stacking bar charts, pie charts\n and filled-area charts, singly and in combination. It supports real-time\n updates, true Postscript output, and intelligent user feedback. It comes\n with Builder, a graph prototyping tool, which supports code & resource\n file generation. A free demo (vmgraph) is available.\n There are free integration kits for UIM/X, TeleUSE, and Builder Xcessory\n (others in progress).\nAvailability:\n XRT/graph for XView and OLIT are only available on SPARC.\n XRT/graph for Motif is available on a dozen or so platforms.\n\n\nFree: Slingshot XView extension\n\n Slingshot provides rectangles (like the Xt Intrinsics' RectObj gadget),\n drag-and-drop support, images, icons and text, trees, lines, arrows...\n\n Get it by ftp from export.lcs.mit.edu, in /contrib/SlingShot2.0.tar.Z\n (remember to use binary mode in ftp!).\n You can also get it by sending mail to archive-server@gazooch.eng.sun.com\n with the body of each message containing a line like\n\tsend sspkg2.0 Part01 Part02\n going up to\n\tsend sspkg2.0 Part17 Part18\n\tsend sspkg2.0 DocPart01 DocPart02 DocPart03\n\tsend sspkg2.0 DocPart04 DocPart05 DocPart06\n You can ask for one file at a time to reduce the impact on intermediate\n mail sites.\t Ask the mail server for help with the Subject line: \"help\".\n A human can be reached at archive-manager@gazooch.eng.sun.com.\n Add a line in the message\n\tpath \n if you think the normal automatic reply address might not work.\n\n\nAda bindings for XView\n Sun Ada 1.1 includes among other things an Ada Source Code Generator\n for Devguide. It uses the Verdix XView Ada bindings.\n It does not yet [July 1992] support gfm (the guide file manager).\n\nC++ Bindings for XView\n\nQualix's XV++.\n\nUIT\n\n\nSubject: OpenWindows 3 Ports\n\n Sun: SPARC, SunOS 4.1\n Sun: SPARC, Solaris 2 (actually 3.0.1?)\n others: none so far...\n\nThere are said (by Sun) to be two or three ports of OpenWindows either\navailable now or in progress. Contact Anthony Flynn at Open Vistas\nInternational (anthony@ovi.com) for more information. (originally they\nsaid 35, but perhaps they meant 3.5)\n\nOpenWindows source is available - commercially, it costs about $5,000 for\nthe server, including TypeScaler and the toolkits; deskset (filemgr etc) is\nanother $25,000; ToolTalk is $40,000 or so.\n\n\nSubject: XView 3 Ports\n\nWhat: XView 3\nSystem: Apple A/UX\nPorter: lmj@uncompaghre.jax.org (Lou Jones)\nFtp: encyclo.jax.org\nNotes:\n The libraries and utilities (olwm, cmdtool, etc) are available for\n anonymous ftp from encyclo.jax.org. I used gcc 2.1 to compile the\n sources. If there is enough interest, I can make the diffs\n available.\n\nSystem: Concurrent 7000 (68040 based)\nPorter: sinan@Mtesol.boeing.com (Sinan Karasu)\n\nSystem: DECStation/Ultrix\nPorter: dscott@ittc.wec.com (Dave Scott)\nFtp: media-lab.media.mit.edu:~ftp/xview3-ultrix.4.2-mips.tar.Z\nNotes:\n Let me stress that this is *not* fully tested, but seems to work\n pretty well. Please let me know about any problems you find.\n Problems I already know about:\n\tLarge buttons under *any* non-Sun X server (non-xnews; i.e. any\n\tstandard MIT X11R[45] server) have the bottom of the button\n\tchopped off. We're working on this one. :-)\n XView 3 is also available on the DEC Freeware CD, from DECUS.\n[actually this seems *not* to be Dave Scott's port; please accept my apologies\n for listing this incorrectly. A correct entry will appear as soon as I get\n the necessary information. -- Lee]\n\nSystem: HP 720\nPorter: (?)\nFtp: tesla.ucd.ie [137.43.24.44], /pub\nNotes:\n Includes HP 720 build, HP XView patch file, Xvgr.\n\nSystem: HP9000/300 series\nPorter: tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Tim Chown)\n\nSystem: HP9000/7XX series\nFtp: ftp.csc.liv.ac.uk (138.253.42.172) hpux/X11/xview-3.part[123].tar.Z\n\nSystem: Intel (SysVR4/i386)\nPorter: dawes@physics.su.OZ.AU (David Dawes)\nFtp: ftp.physics.su.oz.au, suphys.physics.su.oz.au /Esix_4/x11r5 hierarchy\nNotes:\n His patches were for Esix 4.0.3 but should work on DELL, ISC and Intel\n SVR4 with no worries. The files are README.xview3 and xview3.diff.Z.\nSee Also: linux\n\nSystem: IBM RS/6000\nPorter: tmcconne@sedona.intel.com (Tom McConnell)\nCompiler: bsdcc\nFtp: export.lcs.mit.edu:contrib/xview3/Fixes/xview3_rs6k_unofficial.patch.Z\nNotes:\n There is still a problem with tty support for the RS/6000. For\n instance, the cmdtool will not work. Still, most everything else works.\n For those of you who have already installed my previous patch, I have\n put a separate patch for just the shared library problem. This file is\n contrib/xview3/Fixes/xview3_rs6k_XView_lib.patch.Z.\n\nSystem: linux\nPorter: Kenneth Osterberg \nICompiler: gcc 2.3.3, libc4.2\nFtp: tsx-11.mit.edu /pub/linux/binaries/usr.bin.X11/xview3L2\nFtp: sunsite.unc.edu\nNotes:\n Inlcudes olvwm, UIT\n\nSystem: SGI\nPorter: Rainer Sinkwitz \nFtp: export.lcs.mit.edu:/contrib/xview3/Fixes/xview3_sgi_unofficial.patch.tar.Z\nNotes:\n\nSystem: Solbourne Series 5\nPorter: tmcconne@sedona.intel.com (Tom McConnell)\n\n\nSubject: XView 2 Ports\n\nIn general, there is no point in using XView 2 if you have XView 3 available;\nit's a good idea to look for an XView 3 port first. Moving from XView 2 to\nXView 3 is usually simply a matter of recompiling, unless you've done\n\"dirty tricks\" or used undocumented calls.\n\n\nSystem: Stellar GS100 (Stardent 1000) and Stardent 1500 & 3000\nPorter: arvai@scripps.edu (Andy Arvai)\nFtp: perutz.scripps.edu (137.131.152.27) in the pub/xview directory\nNotes:\n Stardent is now Kubota Pacific (KPC)\n\nSystem: Harris Nighthawk 4000 system (CX/UX Unix)\nPorter: andy@harris.nl (Andy Warner)\nStatus: Commercial\n\nSystem: SGI/Iris\nPorter: (?)\nFtp: wuarchive.wustl.edu:graphics/graphics/sgi-stuff/XView/xview2\n\nSystem: VAX/VMS\nPorter: TGV Inc (?)\nNotes:\n A company called TGV makes a product called \"XView for VMS\".\n They made XView 2.0 libraries. I haven't seen them advertising\n XView 3.0 libraries yet.\n\nSubject: Games (free and commercial)\n\nCommercial: Aviator - flight simulator for GX-equipped SPARCStations\nContact: Artificial Horizons Inc, aviator-interest@ahi.com; +1 415 367 5029\nRequirements: OpenWindows (2 or 3), SunOS 4.1 or later, SPARC GX or GXplus\n\nFree: hexsweeper - minesweeper game based on hexagons\nContact: lee@sq.com, include HexSweeper in Subject\nRequirements: OpenWindows 3.0 or later\nToolkit: TNT 3\n\nFree: \n\nFree: sidtool - PacMan game\nFtp: ftp.uu.net /usenet/comp.sources.games/volume1/sidtool/*\n \n\n an OPEN LOOK PacMan(tm) surrogate that\n appears as a debugger - the bad guys are code bugs that\n move around your screen; you (the good guy) chase them\n with a 19\" monitor that eats bugs.\n\n\nCommercial: SimCity\nContact: Dux Software, Los Altos, CA\nPrice: US$89\nRequirements: OpenWindows 3 (uses NeWS). Doesn't run on a 4/110 with cg4 :-(\n\nFree: Spider (Included in OpenWindows under `demo' and `share/src')\n A patience-style card game with two packs of cards and\n excellent bitmap cards.\n I suggest recompiling to allow the cards to have rounded edges.\n\nFree: Xblackjack (ftp from export.lcs.mi.edu as contrib/xblackjack-2.1.tar.Z)\n A MOTIF/OLIT based tool constructed to get you ready for the casino.\n", ": Just curious why floptical drives never seemed to catch on. Remember\n: those 21 Mb disks that look and feel like 3.5\" floppies? These drives\n: are SCSI devices and can read and write both 720 Kb and 1.44/21 Mb\n: disks. Sounds to me to be one great product for the PC market. Are the\n: prices really that unaffordable compared to CD-ROMs which are currently\n: not rewritable? I know about the new rewritable CDs and expect SONY to\n: develop the first MDs for the computer. My question is: why isn't there\n: any substantial interest in developing the flopticals?\n\nCertainly in the UK the 21Mb flopticals are about the same price as a\ncheap CD-ROM now (you seem to be able to get them for around GBP\n200-250). However the bigger optical drives (e.g. 128Mb) are much more\nexpensive - around the GBP 1000 mark.\n\nA couple of questions that someone may be able to answer - the 21Mb\nflopticals - are they direct drop in replacements for a floppy or do\nthey need driver software etc. I.e. do you just rip out the floppy\ndrive, plug the same cables into the floptical, stick in a flopti-disk\nand hey presto you have a 21Mb floppy. This sounds far too easy.\n\nOn the subject of Sony developing MDs for computers, I have reread a\nPCW article on this subject and there it says that Sony have been doing\noptical drives for other people for some time and may be about to do a\nproduct themselves. From the article it seems that the audio MD format\nis a byproduct of their computer storage work - the MD mechanism is\nidentical to their MO computer optical drives. A Sony spokesman was\nquoted as saying that a 2.5\" MD disk would hold about 100Mb of data\nthough he refused to comment on any possibility of this being\nproductized.\n\nThe article said that one of the problems holding back development in\nthis area was lack of sensible standards plus there are at least 2\ndistinct optical storage mechanisms around at present. Given that it\nprobably needs MDs being used as a distribution medium to get it\ninto the market and since this has already been cornered by CDs it\nprobably needs someone to come in with a very strong marketting lead\nto get MDs accepted.\n\n--", "The Andrew Consortium\n of the School of Computer Science at Carnegie Mellon \n is pleased to announce\n\n AUIS 5.1.1 for AIX3.2\n 4/26/93\n\nThe Andrew User Interface System version 5.1 (our CDrom version) was\ndeveloped for AIX version 3.1 on the IBM RS/6000 and many other\nplatforms. To accomodate AIX version 3.2, we have created a patch to\nthe sources. The patch and accompanying instructions for its\napplication can be retrieved at no charge via anonymous-ftp from the\ninternet host emsworth.andrew.cmu.edu (128.2.45.40) in the directory\n./aixpatch. For those without internet access, a 3.5\" diskette can be\nordered for $10 by sending, or faxing, a purchase order to the address\nbelow. \n\nThe base 5.1 system can be ordered from us as a CDrom or ftp'ed from the\nsame host.\n\nNote that this patch adds no additional functionality but simply allows\nAUIS to compile under AIX3.2.\n\n-----------\n\nThe Andrew User Interface System (AUIS) is a comprehensive environment\non top of X11 windows in which you can create, use, and mail multi-media\napplications and documents. A major advantage of AUIS is the\ncapability to recursively embed objects. Thus, one can edit text that\nnot only contains multiple fonts, indentation, and other typography, but\nalso contains embedded raster images, spreadsheets, drawing editors,\nequations, simple animations, and so on. These embedded objects can\nthemselves contain other objects, including text.\n\nAUIS has three components:\n\n The Andrew User Environment is an integrated and extensible set\n of applications beginning with the ez text editor, a help\n system, a system monitoring tool, an editor-based shell\n interface, and other editors corresponding to the various\n available types of objects. \n\n The Andrew Toolkit (ATK) is a portable, object-oriented\n user-interface toolkit that provides the architecture wherein\n objects can be embedded in one-another. With the toolkit,\n programmers can create new objects that can be embedded as\n easily as those that come with the system. \n\n The Andrew Message System (AMS) provides a multi-media interface\n to mail and bulletin-boards. AMS supports several mail\n management strategies and implements many advanced features\n including authentication, return receipts, automatic sorting of\n mail, vote collection and tabulation, enclosures, audit trails\n of related messages, and subscription management. It also\n provides a variety of interfaces that support ttys and\n low-function personal computers in addition to high-function\n workstations. \n\nThe current public release of Andrew, Version 5.1, includes support for\nthe new Internet MIME (Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions) standards\nfor multipart, multimedia mail. A newer release, 5.2, for members of\nthe Andrew Consortium has numerous additional features including new\neditors for drawings, images, fonts, and user preferences.\n\n\nRemote Andrew Demo Service\n\nYou can try out Andrew from your own work station via the Remote Andrew\nDemo Service. You need a host machine on the Internet running the X11\nwindow system. You'll be able to compose multimedia documents, navigate\nthrough the interactive Andrew Tour, and use the Andrew Message System\nto browse through a few of CMU's four thousand bulletin boards and\nnewsgroups.\n\nTo get started with the Remote Andrew Demo service, simply run the\nfollowing command on your machine:\n\n\tfinger help@atk.itc.cmu.edu\n\nThe service will give you further instructions. \n\n\nMore information about Andrew is available from:\n\n Information Requests\n Andrew Consortium\n Carnegie Mellon University\n Smith Hall 106\n 5000 Forbes Avenue\n Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890\n USA\n phone: +1-412-268-6710\n fax: +1-412-682-6938\n info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu", "\n\n\nYeah, right. And the company was started by George Simon Ohmite.", "\n\n\n\n ^\n Novell is at least\n demoing windows apps\n running under UNIXWare.\n\n\n ^ ^\n Try MKS. MKS &\n others, esp.\n EMX\n\nNote here: the MKS toolkit (for DOS/Windows & OS/2) gives you a good\nsuite of standard UNIX utilities. There are other similar systems from\nother vendors as well. The EMX system for OS/2 gives you most of the\nstandard UNIX system calls for recompiling your UNIX programs under\nOS/2. Not quite the same thing as actually running UNIX programs\ndirectly in either case, but EMX makes OS/2 almost as compatible with\nUNIX systems as many UNIX systems are with each other. And, best of\nall, EMX is free. :-)\n\nThere is a similar system (GO32) for DOS, but it doesn't work with\nWindows, as far as I know.\n\n\nShould add in the cost for DOS with both Geos and Windows, neither of\nwhich is a standalone OS at this point. Neither OS/2 nor UNIX requires\nDOS.\n\nBTW, two of the best unices I've seen for the pee cee are UNIXWare ($300\nfor the personal edition) and LINUX (free). So I don't agree that \"a\ngood one costs $400-$700.\" :-)\n\nAnd, if you really want to check out the various options available to\nyou, you should also look into DESQview and DESQview/X.\n\ncheers", "[much discussion about switching 5.25\" and 3.5\" drives removed]\n\nAnother (albeit strange) option is using a program like 800 II\n(available via anonymous FTP at many major sites), or FDFORMAT\n(also available via anonymous FTP), that allows you to format\n5.25HD disks to 1.44Meg, or 3.5\"HD disks to 1.2Meg (along with\nmany MANY other formats!) so you can DISKCOPY (yes, the broken\nMeSsy-DOS DISKCOPY!) the 5.25\" disks onto 3.5\" disks or vice\nversa... I use this techniques with \"NON-DOS\" self-booting \ngame disks on my old Tandy 1000, and it works... Another program\nnamed Teledisk (shareware--available on many major BBS's) will\nalso make the weird format disks, provided you have 800 II\nor FDFormat installed.... Some disks that won't DISKCOPY\nproperly can be readily Teledisk'd into the proper format...\nAt least this is a software solution for a hardware/BIOS \ndeficiency, eh? \n\n\n--\nJoseph Zbiciak im14u2c@camelot.bradley.edu\n[====Disclaimer--If you believe any of this, check your head!====]\n------------------------------------------------------------------", "\nThere are 3 alternatives:\n1. You can try to write a small C program something like:\n\n int my_int_var;\n my_int_var = system(\"command\");\n\n and display my_int_var value (which is the exit code of the command).\n\n2. Or use 4dos.com instead of command.com (it has built in move command)\n you can also get any program exist code by using the exec function\n of 4dos:\n\n c:\\>echo %@exec[command]\n\n will display the exit code of the command.\n\n3. Get DOS 6, not worth buying if you already have QEMM/PCTools/Norton,\n and you only need the move utility.\n\n", "Well, actually not quite. Both Radar and Radio-Altimeters measure distances\nby measuring the time required to transmit a signal, then receive its\nreflection from a target. Radar generally uses pulses, while Radio Altimeters\nuse either pulses or a modulated continuous-wave transmission. In the case of\nthe latter, highly accurate distance measurement can be made. As an example,\nthe original Bendix ALA-52 Radio Altimeter was accurate to 1/8 foot at 2500\nfeet altitude.\n\nNote, however that this is a different method of measuring than the poster\noriginally asked about. The problem with gaining accurate measurements between\na transmitter and a seperate receiver is that you need a highly accurate\ntime base which starts at the receiver at the exact instant the transmitter\ntriggers. This cannot be wire connected, since radio waves will actually\ntravel faster in free-space (air, in this case) than wire (the difference\nis called the velocity factor of the cable). So you need to resort to a\ncommon timebase that is automatically corrected for distance, etc. Something\nlike a PLL connected to a GPS receiver should do the trick, triggering both\nthe transmitter and receiver simultaneously. Sound expensive? Not too bad,\nbut plan on spending a few bucks in both equipment and effort.\n\nWhy not go to a different method? Surveyors use a laser-light system where again\nthe reflection time is measured. Why not try this? (Sounds like something a P.E.\nshould know about anyway ;-).\n\n\nThis is actually highly inaccurate, since the power output of a transmitter\nvaries from unit to unit, there are variances in the antenna and transmission\nline, and the receiver may also vary, both from unit to unit, and the same unit\nover time. You would need to continuously calibrate the entire system. With\nthe radio altimeter this is also done, but since everything is located at\none place, it is much easier to do. Note especially that the time base for\nthe R.A. receiver and transmitter is one unit also...\n\n\nNope. FM capture effect says that the strongest signal wins. That is, unless\nthe two interfering signals are seperated by more than 3 db in signal strength.\nThis is the one problem that makes altimeters inaccurate at very low altitudes.\nSignals bouncing off runways tend to be VERY strong...\n\n\nAs high as possible to eliminate outside influence, and also to enhance\nattenuation of multipath signals. Radio Altimeters typically use frequencies\naround 4 GHz.\n\nHope this helps...\n", "Does anyone have any real experience with the Kubota Kenai/Denali\nseries of graphics workstations? They pretty much blow the pants\noff SGI machines and Sun machines in the same price point, which\nis about 50,000 bucks. Real nice stuff, but I've only seen the\nstuff on paper. I'm wondering, is there anything NOT to like? The\nspecs are too massive to get into here, but if a summary is desired\nI could be coaxed into uploading the spec sheet.", "an image of the moon has been caught in a weather satellite images of the earth.\nit appears in both the 0430-1500UT ir and visual images of the earth.\nthe GIF images can be down loaded from vmd.cso.uiuc.edu and are named\nCI043015.GIF and CV043015.GIF for the IR and visual images respectively.\n\npretty cool pictures; in the ir it's saturated but in the visual image\ndetails on the moon are viewable.\n\nthe moon is not in the 1400UT images.\n", "\n\n\nA quick search of the index at mac.archive.umich.edu shows the following as\navailable by anonymous ftp from that site:\n\n/mac/util/developer/diagnosticsoundsampler.hqx\n 9 7/24/90 BinHex4.0\n \n That \"chord\" you hear when you push the start-up on your Mac II\n means more than just \"I'm on\". it's passed it's internal test.\n This utility explains what the various sounds stand for (i.e.\n various stages of ram testing...)\n \n", "For Sale:\n Intel 96oo Baud Modem\n External\n V32/V42bis\n Very Good Working Condition\n Never had any problems \n $160 oBo\n\nLeave daytime number for fastest response.\n", "for a\nidentifies\nthat\n\nIs this software available either commercially or public domain? If so\nwhere?", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\nRob,\n\ntheir e-mail adress is support@asymetrix.com\n\nI've heard V.2.0 is in beta.\n\nhave a look at bitserv.list.toolb-l - which is a toolbook list.", "For Sale\n MAC 512Ke with mouse and keyboard. Functions fine\n\n HD20 Serial Hard Drive.. plugs into Floppy port and gives a 20MB HD\n\nMake offers\n", "Hello Brad!\n\nMonday April 26 1993 17:24, Brad Smalling wrote to (crosspost 1) All:\n\n BS> For a VGA card these are the correct files but you can't just copy them\n BS> back and expect it to work. You have to create a new WIN.COM file. Try\n BS> the command (you will have to worry about what directories each file is in\n BS> since I don't know your setup):\n\n BS> COPY /B WIN.CNF+VGALOGO.LGO+VGALOGO.RLE WIN.COM\n\n BS> (I grabbed this from _Supercharging Windows_ by Judd Robbins--great book)\n BS> This is also how you can put your own logo into the Windows startup\n BS> screen. An RLE file is just a specially compressed BMP file.\n\nBrad,\n What is the procedure used to 'specially' compress the BMP file? I would\nlove to use some of my BMP files I have created as a logo screen. Thanks\n\nChris\n", "\n\n Huh? Where did you get this idea from? I think you got this\nbackwards. The Duo's memory is faster than its equivalent desktop\nmachine by 5-10% (and the rest of the powerboks). I think the\nexplanation for this was that it can refresh faster (in 2 instead of 5\ncycles I believe). Things that could affect performance would be\nfactors such as use of functions enhanced in the FPU (which the Duo\ndoesn't have undocked). Extensions and background applications can\nslow your computer down too. Real life differences in speed are likely\nto be influence by the software you are running, what kind of screen\ndepth you are running etc.\n\nEspen", "\nI don't know the specifics of the compression algorithm, but I've used the\nshareware program, PaintShop, to convert between the two. You can download\nit from ftp.cica.indiana.edu, but I don't know what the file is called\nor what directory it is in (you can start by looking in pub/pc/win3 or try\nscanning the index files).\n\nTo convert a .BMP file to a .RLE file, you just load the .BMP file and do a\n\"Save as...\" Select \"Windows bitmap\" and \"Compressed\" (or is it \"RLE\"?)\nWhatever it is, it's fairly intuitive...\n\nSorry I don't have all the details, but I'm currently on an IBM3151 dumb\nterminal and can't do much researching...Good luck!\n ", "[ ... ]\n\nHere'a a copy, cdt:\n------------------------------------------------------------------------", "This drive is less than one year old. The cartridges have all been bought\nsince then. All is in excellent condition and still under warranty.\nDue to a change in system use, I now need a large, contiguous drive.\n\nOffer includes:\n\tSyDos 44i internal drive\n\tSCSI adapter card and cables\n\tAll original documentation\n\tSoftware\n\tAll original packaging\n\t8 cartridges totalling over 350Mb (no bad sectors or defects)\n\nThe installation was a breeze on my 386 clone.\n\nI will trade for something near 300Mb IDE, or sell for $450.\nI will also consider trading for 4 4Mx9 30 pin SIMMs at 70ns.", "EUROPEAN COMPUTER RESEARCH CENTRE\n\nResearch Positions in 3D Graphics\n\nECRC is currently expanding its research staff in three-dimensional\ngraphics. We are looking for highly qualified researchers with a PhD in\ncomputer science and a proven ability to conduct highly innovative\nresearch. Preference will be given to candidates who have strong\nexperience in developing and implementing algorithms for\nthree-dimensional graphics, visualization and user interaction. We\npresently have positions available for both experienced researchers and\nrecent graduates. Candidates with especially strong backgrounds may be\nconsidered for positions as visiting scientists or for Ph.D. student\nresearch positions.\n\nThe European Computer-Industry Research Centre is located in Munich,\nGermany with English as the working language. The centre is funded by a\nconsortium of major computer companies, with a mission to pursue\nresearch in fundamental areas of computer science. Active areas of\nresearch include visualization and user interfaces, distributed\ncomputing, parallelism, deductive systems and databases. The center\nemploys 45 researchers of 21 different nationalities.\n\nThe small but rapidly growing graphics group is currently investigating\nnew methods for three-dimensional human-computer interaction and the\nintegration of computer vision and computer graphics technology. The\ncenter has extensive computing facilities which includes Sun\nworkstations, Apple Macintoshes, a well equipped graphics laboratory and\nnetwork access to super-computer facilities.", "I was looking at the amps diagram for Sony 1090/2090 receivers, and I\nwas amazed to find a difference between the US and Canadian model\non the capacitor(s) that hangs off the output to the speakers:\n\n ------\\/\\/\\----- to speaker (identical both models\nfrom amp ---------------|\n(idnetical both models) >\n < 10 \n >\n |\n ----- \n | | \n 0.022 --- --- Canadian model only!\n US model --- --- 0.047 \n and world-wide | |\n model only. | --- Candian model only!\n | --- 0.047\n | |\n ----------- gound\n\nThe board itself is also identical, with room for all three caps. The\nUS/Can versions is clearly indicated in both places.\n\nHow does that make sense? 0.047/2 is 0.0235, essentially 0.022 for caps\n(there are just standard caps, no special W/type/precision). ", "<><><><> SIPPs FOR SALE <><><><>\n\nI have 16 SIPPs for sale. I upgraded a few systems memory, so I don't need \nthese no more. They are:\n\n 11- 256x9 SIPPs @70NS\n 5- 256X9 SIPPs @80NS\n --------------------\n 4 MEG TOTAL ALL FOR $110\n OR 4 (1 MEG) FOR $27\nNOTE: SIPPs are gernally more expensive then SIMMs\n\nThese SIPPs are in good working condition........\n\nBuyer pay shipping/handling.\n\nIf interested reply to:\n\t\t\tminh@wpi.wpi.edu\n-- ", "\nI've recently joined the Motif world, so I'd like a similar tool for\nMotif. I've bene used to the OpenWin one in the past and miss it.\n\nCheers,\n\n[M][a][r][c]", "used\nafter\nNanao's so I\ncontrast is\nSS2 color\nas good,\nrunning across.\nas well\nway the 5FG\n\nI believe PC mag said 5FGE can't do 1280x1024.\n\n\ntso@cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu \n", "Forsale\n\n1 Desktop Case, 200 Watt power supply 2 internal 5 1/4\" bays and \n 2 external 5 1/4\" origanaly Dell System 200 case. looks real good\n all hardware included.\n I would like $80 + shipping or best offer.\n\n1 Western Digital MFM controler, 16 bit 2 floppy 2 hard, never had a\n problem with it. \n I would like $30 + shipping or best offer.\n\n1 Game card, works well nothing fancy just a joystick port. \n I would like $10 + shipping or best offer.\n\n1 INNOVATION Game / Sound Card, Has one game port and an adlib port.\n I never used it. ( I got a soundblaster cheep before I installed it)\n I would like $5 + shipping\n\n All offers considered, Buyer pays shipping.\n\n\nplease resopnd to \nklwright@eos.ncsu.edu\nor\n(919) 834-3290 ", "Howdy all,\n\nWhere could I find a screen-grabber program for MS-Windows? I'm \nwriting up some documentation and it would be VERY helpful to include\nsample screens into the document.\n\nPlease e-mail as I don't usualy follow this group.\n\nThanks a lot,\n\nGrant\n", "\nNo flames please, but I picked up this discussion a bit late and I \nam really curious...\n\nWhat exactly *is* the $25 network?\nSomething to hack together N serial cables?\nSomething with N serial drivers?", ": \n: Hello\n: \n: I have problems combining two IDE hard disks\n: (Seagate ST3283A and Quantum LPS105A). As single hard disk both\n: are working fine, but connecting them together to my \n: controller doesn't work.\n: \n: My questions are:\n: \n: - Has anybody out there ever been succesful using such hard disks\n: together and if so what jumper settings and BIOS settting did he/she\n: use?\n: \n: - Is it possible that my controller is the reason for my troubles ?\n: The only thing I know about it is that it is an \n: IDE-harddisk-controller. How many harddisks can such a controller\n: control? In my case only one ?\n: \n: \n: Thanks in advance\n: \n: \tVolker\n: \nIDE drives have jumpers on them to indicate if it is a master or a slave.\nIf it is a master, then a second jumper indicates if a slave is present.\nThese must be set correctly according to each drive's manufacturers spec-\nification. The CMOS setup is almost positively NOT the problem. It is\nprobably not the controller - IDE controllers all support exactly two\ndrives maximum. Check those jumpers.", "Maybe I should have been clearer. I have a Intel 386DX/25 that I would\nlike to use to put together a system however all the motherboards that\nthe local vendors are now selling are running either at 33 or 40 MHz. I\nguess I can cross my fingers and hope the CPU runs at that speed. ;^)\n\nI think I'll take Mark's advice and see if any of the boards have\na socketed oscillator and head down to the local electronics store...\n\nThanks for the info...", "\nIt is a factory testing slot. The test rig connects to the connector and\nverifies proper board operation.", "US Robotics Courier HST 14.4K Modem\n*External (volume control, LED display, power switch)\n*1600-1700 CPS compressed file transfers (higher for uncompressed\nfiles)\n*all manuals and original packaging\nThis modem ussually costs around 500\n* V.42 error control \n* V.42bis data conpression \n* MNP Class 5\nerror free throughput up to 38,400 bps\n \nSpecial price for YOU only.. !!!! $220 !!!!!!\nPlease inquire with any questions.. \nemail\njmcneill@sdcc13.ucsd.edu\nor call VOICE: 619 622 1949", "\nFor better worse, the source on this on is Michael Barnsley. His article\nin The Science of Fractal Images (Peitgen et al) is a fair-to-middling\nintro. Barnsley's book Fractals Everywhere is a more thorough treatment.\nThe book covers Iterated Function Systems in general, and their application\nto image compression is clear from the text.", "I've got an rgb Mistubishi monitor and on the back it has 5\nBNC connectors labeled like this:\n\n composite\n HD VD\n + + + + +\n sync red green blue\n\n\tI've used it as a straight RGB monsitor but i can't figure out\nhow to use it for composite. Could someone explain what these markings\nmean? Thanks for any help.\n\n\ttom", "I own a Zoom V.32bis modem and I am having some strange problems, I\nwould like to contact the manufacturer.. but there is no address on the\nbox. Does any1 have their address? or telephone number?\n\nThanx,\nDon Smith", " Mac IIsi.\n\nI have had my Q700 running with a 66.666 MHz osc for a few months. I have a\nnumber of SCSI devices connected (Quantum LP52, Maxtor 213, Toshiba MK156F via\nEmulex adapter, Pioneer DRM-600) and have had no trouble.\n\nI am using the stock cooling facilities, I considered adding a fan/heat pump,\nbut don't feel they are necessary (for my box anyway). I have a temp meter on\norder and plan to do some measurements when it arrives in a few weeks. Email me\nif you want to see the results.", "Well, after a lot of trawling through archives, I found the post\nI reproduce in full below. Is it time to get together to develop\na tcp/ip standard for crypto voice that we could then layer on\npoint-to-point SLIP as *the* free standard for crypto voice like\npgp is for mail?\n\n(PS Note the date of this post. Appropriate, huh? :-) )\n\n---\nFrom jpcampb@afterlife.ncsc.mil Thu Jul 9 11:50:11 1992\nFrom: jpcampb@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Joe Campbell)\nNewsgroups: comp.compression.research\nSubject: Re: sound compression algorithms\nDate: 4 Jul 92 14:46:04 GMT\nOrganization: The Great Beyond\n\n\nIn case you'd like to experiment with CELP, you can obtain a software\nimplementation of the 4800 bps Fed Std CELP coder for free:\n\nThe U.S. DoD's Federal-Standard-1016 based 4800 bps code excited linear\nprediction voice coder version 3.2 (CELP 3.2) Fortran and C simulation source\ncodes are now available for worldwide distribution at no charge (on DOS\ndiskettes, but configured to compile on Sun SPARC stations) from:\n\nBob Fenichel\nNational Communications System\nWashington, D.C. 20305\n1-703-692-2124\n1-703-746-4960 (fax)\n\nIn addition to the source codes, example input and processed speech files\nare included along with a technical information bulletin to assist in\nimplementation of FS-1016 CELP. (An anonymous ftp site is being considered\nfor future releases.)\n\nCopies of the actual standard \"Federal Standard 1016, Telecommunications:\nAnalog to Digital Conversion of Radio Voice by 4,800 bit/second Code\nExcited Linear Prediction (CELP)\" are available for $2.50 each from:\n\nGSA Rm 6654\n7th & D St SW\nWashington, D.C. 20407\n1-202-708-9205\n\nThe following articles describe the Federal-Standard-1016 4.8-kbps CELP\ncoder (it's unnecessary to read more than one):\n\nCampbell, Joseph P. Jr., Thomas E. Tremain and Vanoy C. Welch,\n\"The Federal Standard 1016 4800 bps CELP Voice Coder,\" Digital Signal\nProcessing, Academic Press, 1991, Vol. 1, No. 3, p. 145-155.\n\nCampbell, Joseph P. Jr., Thomas E. Tremain and Vanoy C. Welch,\n\"The DoD 4.8 kbps Standard (Proposed Federal Standard 1016),\"\nin Advances in Speech Coding, ed. Atal, Cuperman and Gersho,\nKluwer Academic Publishers, 1991, Chapter 12, p. 121-133.\n\nCampbell, Joseph P. Jr., Thomas E. Tremain and Vanoy C. Welch, \"The\nProposed Federal Standard 1016 4800 bps Voice Coder: CELP,\" Speech\nTechnology Magazine, April/May 1990, p. 58-64.\n\nFor U.S. FED-STD-1016 (4800 bps CELP) _realtime_ DSP code\nand information about products using this code, contact:\n\nJohn DellaMorte\nDSP Software Engineering\n165 Middlesex Tpk, Suite 206\nBedford, MA 01730\n1-617-275-3733\n1-617-275-4323 (fax)\ndspse.bedford@channel1.com\n\nDSP Software Engineering's code can run on a DSP Research's Tiger 30 board\n(a PC board with a TMS320C3x and analog interface suited to development work)\nor on Intellibit's AE2000 TMS320C31 based 3\" by 2.5\" card.\n\nDSP Research Intellibit\n1095 E. Duane Ave. P.O. Box 9785\nSunnyvale, CA 94086 McLean, VA 22102-0785\n(408)773-1042 (703)442-4781\n(408)736-3451 (fax) (703)442-4784 (fax)", "Archive-name: x-faq/part5\nLast-modified: 1993/04/04\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 119) I'm writing a widget and can't use a float as a resource value.\n\nFloat resources are not portable; the size of the value may be larger than\nthe size of an XtPointer. Try using a pointer to a float instead; the Xaw\nScrollbar float resources are handled in this way. \n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 120) Is this a memory leak in the X11R4 XtDestroyWidget()?!\n\nYes. This is the \"unofficial\" fix-19 for the X11R4 Destroy.c:\n\n*** Destroy.c.1.37\tThu Jul 11 15:41:25 1991\n--- lib/Xt/Destroy.c\tThu Jul 11 15:42:23 1991\n***************\n*** 1,4 ****\n--- 1,5 ----\n /* $XConsortium: Destroy.c,v 1.37 90/09/28 10:21:32 swick Exp $ */\n+ /* Plus unofficial patches in revisions 1.40 and 1.41 */\n \n /***********************************************************\n Copyright 1987, 1988 by Digital Equipment Corporation, Maynard, Massachusetts,\n***************\n*** 221,239 ****\n */\n \n int i = 0;\n! DestroyRec* dr = app->destroy_list;\n while (i < app->destroy_count) {\n \tif (dr->dispatch_level >= dispatch_level) {\n \t Widget w = dr->widget;\n \t if (--app->destroy_count)\n \t\tbcopy( (char*)(dr+1), (char*)dr,\n! \t\t app->destroy_count*sizeof(DestroyRec)\n \t\t );\n \t XtPhase2Destroy(w);\n \t}\n \telse {\n \t i++;\n- \t dr++;\n \t}\n }\n }\n--- 222,245 ----\n */\n \n int i = 0;\n! DestroyRec* dr;\n while (i < app->destroy_count) {\n+ \n+ \t/* XtPhase2Destroy can result in calls to XtDestroyWidget,\n+ \t * and these could cause app->destroy_list to be reallocated.\n+ \t */\n+ \n+ \tdr = app->destroy_list + i;\n \tif (dr->dispatch_level >= dispatch_level) {\n \t Widget w = dr->widget;\n \t if (--app->destroy_count)\n \t\tbcopy( (char*)(dr+1), (char*)dr,\n! \t\t (app->destroy_count - i) * sizeof(DestroyRec)\n \t\t );\n \t XtPhase2Destroy(w);\n \t}\n \telse {\n \t i++;\n \t}\n }\n }\n\n[from Donna Converse, converse@expo.lcs.mit.EDU]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 121) Are callbacks guaranteed to be called in the order registered?\n\n\tAlthough some books demonstrate that the current implementation of Xt\nhappens to call callback procedures in the order in which they are registered, \nthe specification does not guarantee such a sequence, and supplemental \nauthoritative documents (i.e. the Asente/Swick volume) do say that the order is\nundefined. Because the callback list can be manipulated by both the widget and\nthe application, Xt cannot guarantee the order of execution.\n\tIn general, the callback procedures should be thought of as operating \nindependently of one another and should not depend on side-effects of other\ncallbacks operating; if a seqence is needed, then the single callback to be \nregistered can explicitly call other functions necessary.\n\n[4/92; thanks to converse@expo.lcs.mit.edu]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 122) Why doesn't XtDestroyWidget() actually destroy the widget?\n\n\tXtDestroyWidget() operates in two passes, in order to avoid leaving\ndangling data structures; the function-call marks the widget, which is not \nactually destroyed until your program returns to its event-loop. \n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 123) How do I query the user synchronously using Xt?\n\t\n\tIt is possible to have code which looks like this trivial callback,\nwhich has a clear flow of control. The calls to AskUser() block until answer\nis set to one of the valid values. If it is not a \"yes\" answer, the code drops\nout of the callback and back to an event-processing loop: \n\n\tvoid quit(Widget w, XtPointer client, XtPointer call)\n\t{\n\t\tint answer;\n\t\tanswer = AskUser(w, \"Really Quit?\");\n\t\tif (RET_YES == answer)\n\t\t\t{\n\t\t\tanswer = AskUser(w, \"Are You Really Positive?\");\n\t\t\tif (RET_YES == answer)\n\t\t\t\texit(0);\n }\n\t}\n\n\tA more realistic example might ask whether to create a file or whether \nto overwrite it.\n\tThis is accomplished by entering a second event-processing loop and\nwaiting until the user answers the question; the answer is returned to the\ncalling function. That function AskUser() looks something like this, where the \nMotif can be replaced with widget-set-specific code to create some sort of \ndialog-box displaying the question string and buttons for \"OK\", \"Cancel\" and \n\"Help\" or equivalents:\n\n int AskUser(w, string)\n Widget w;\n char *string;\n {\n int answer=RET_NONE;\t/* some not-used marker */\n Widget dialog;\t\t\t/* could cache&carry, but ...*/\n Arg args[3];\n int n = 0;\n XtAppContext context;\n\n n=0;\n XtSetArg(args[n], XmNmessageString, XmStringCreateLtoR(string,\n XmSTRING_DEFAULT_CHARSET)); n++;\n XtSetArg(args[n], XmNdialogStyle, XmDIALOG_APPLICATION_MODAL); n++;\n dialog = XmCreateQuestionDialog(XtParent(w), string, args, n);\n XtAddCallback(dialog, XmNokCallback, response, &answer);\n XtAddCallback(dialog, XmNcancelCallback, response, &answer);\n XtAddCallback(dialog, XmNhelpCallback, response, &answer);\n XtManageChild(dialog);\n\n context = XtWidgetToApplicationContext (w);\n while (answer == RET_NONE || XtAppPending(context)) {\n XtAppProcessEvent (context, XtIMAll);\n }\n XtDestroyWidget(dialog); /* blow away the dialog box and shell */\n return answer;\n }\n\n\tThe dialog supports three buttons, which are set to call the same \nfunction when tickled by the user. The variable answer is set when the user \nfinally selects one of those choices:\n\n void response(w, client, call)\n Widget w;\n XtPointer client;\n XtPointer call;\n {\n int *answer = (int *) client;\n XmAnyCallbackStruct *reason = (XmAnyCallbackStruct *) call;\n switch (reason->reason) {\n case XmCR_OK:\n *answer = RET_YES;\t/* some #define value */\n break;\n case XmCR_CANCEL:\n *answer = RET_NO; \n\t\tbreak;\n case XmCR_HELP:\n *answer = RET_HELP;\n break;\n default:\n return;\n }\n}\n\nand the code unwraps back to the point at which an answer was needed and\ncontinues from there.\n\n[Thanks to Dan Heller (argv@sun.com); further code is in Dan's R3/contrib\nWidgetWrap library. 2/91]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 124) How do I determine the name of an existing widget?\nI have a widget ID and need to know what the name of that widget is.\n\n\tUsers of R4 and later are best off using the XtName() function, which \nwill work on both widgets and non-widget objects.\n\n\tIf you are still using R3, you can use this simple bit of code to do \nwhat you want. Note that it depends on the widget's internal data structures \nand is not necessarily portable to future versions of Xt, including R4.\n\n\t#include \n\t#include \n\tString XtName (widget)\n\tWidget widget;\t/* WILL work with non-widget objects */\n\t{\n\treturn XrmNameToString(widget->core.xrm_name);\n\t}\n\n[7/90; modified with suggestion by Larry Rogers (larry@boris.webo.dg.com) 9/91]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 125) Why do I get a BadDrawable error drawing to XtWindow(widget)?\nI'm doing this in order to get a window into which I can do Xlib graphics\nwithin my Xt-based program:\n\n\n\tThe window associated with the widget is created as a part of the \nrealization of the widget. Using a window id of NULL (\"no window\") could \ncreate the error that you describe. It is necessary to call XtRealizeWidget() \nbefore attempting to use the window associated with a widget. \n\tNote that the window will be created after the XtRealizeWidget() call, \nbut that the server may not have actually mapped it yet, so you should also \nwait for an Expose event on the window before drawing into it.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 126) Why do I get a BadMatch error when calling XGetImage?\n\nThe BadMatch error can occur if the specified rectangle goes off the edge of \nthe screen. If you don't want to catch the error and deal with it, you can take\nthe following steps to avoid the error:\n\n1) Make a pixmap the same size as the rectangle you want to capture.\n2) Clear the pixmap to background using XFillRectangle.\n3) Use XCopyArea to copy the window to the pixmap.\n4) If you get a NoExpose event, the copy was clean. Use XGetImage to grab the\nimage from the pixmap.\n5) If you get one or more GraphicsExpose events, the copy wasn't clean, and \nthe x/y/width/height members of the GraphicsExpose event structures tell you \nthe parts of the pixmap which aren't good.\n6) Get rid of the pixmap; it probably takes a lot of memory.\n\n[10/92; thanks to Oliver Jones (oj@pictel.com)]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 127) How can my application tell if it is being run under X?\n\n\tA number of programs offer X modes but otherwise run in a straight\ncharacter-only mode. The easiest way for an application to determine that it is\nrunning on an X display is to attempt to open a connection to the X server:\n\t\n\tdisplay = XOpenDisplay(display_name);\n\tif (display)\n\t\t{ do X stuff }\n\telse\n\t\t{ do curses or something else }\nwhere display_name is either the string specified on the command-line following\n-display, by convention, or otherwise is (char*)NULL [in which case \nXOpenDisplay uses the value of $DISPLAY, if set].\n\nThis is superior to simply checking for the existence a -display command-line \nargument or checking for $DISPLAY set in the environment, neither of which is \nadequate. [5/91]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 128) How do I make a \"busy cursor\" while my application is computing?\nIs it necessary to call XDefineCursor() for every window in my application?\n\n\tThe easiest thing to do is to create a single InputOnly window that is \nas large as the largest possible screen; make it a child of your toplevel \nwindow and it will be clipped to that window, so it won't affect any other \napplication. (It needs to be as big as the largest possible screen in case the \nuser enlarges the window while it is busy or moves elsewhere within a virtual \ndesktop.) Substitute \"toplevel\" with your top-most widget here (similar code \nshould work for Xlib-only applications; just use your top Window):\n\n unsigned long valuemask;\n XSetWindowAttributes attributes;\n\n /* Ignore device events while the busy cursor is displayed. */\n valuemask = CWDontPropagate | CWCursor;\n attributes.do_not_propagate_mask = (KeyPressMask | KeyReleaseMask |\n ButtonPressMask | ButtonReleaseMask | PointerMotionMask);\n attributes.cursor = XCreateFontCursor(XtDisplay(toplevel), XC_watch);\n\n /* The window will be as big as the display screen, and clipped by\n its own parent window, so we never have to worry about resizing */\n XCreateWindow(XtDisplay(toplevel), XtWindow(toplevel), 0, 0,\n 65535, 65535, (unsigned int) 0, 0, InputOnly,\n CopyFromParent, valuemask, &attributes);\n\nwhere the maximum size above could be replaced by the real size of the screen,\nparticularly to avoid servers which have problems with windows larger than\n32767.\n\nWhen you want to use this busy cursor, map and raise this window; to go back to\nnormal, unmap it. This will automatically keep you from getting extra mouse\nevents; depending on precisely how the window manager works, it may or may not\nhave a similar effect on keystrokes as well.\n\nIn addition, note also that most of the Xaw widgets support an XtNcursor \nresource which can be temporarily reset, should you merely wish to change the\ncursor without blocking pointer events.\n\n[thanks to Andrew Wason (aw@cellar.bae.bellcore.com), Dan Heller \n(argv@sun.com), and mouse@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu; 11/90,5/91]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 129) How do I fork without hanging my parent X program?\n\n\tAn X-based application which spawns off other Unix processes which \ncontinue to run after it is closed typically does not vanish until all of its \nchildren are terminated; the children inherit from the parent the open X \nconnection to the display. \n\tWhat you need to do is fork; then, immediately, in the child process, \n\t\tclose (ConnectionNumber(XtDisplay(widget)));\nto close the file-descriptor in the display information. After this do your \nexec. You will then be able to exit the parent.\n\tAlternatively, before exec'ing make this call, which causes the file \ndescriptor to be closed on exec.\n\t\t(void) fcntl(ConnectionNumber(XDisplay), F_SETFD, 1);\n\n[Thanks to Janet Anstett (anstettj@tramp.Colorado.EDU), Gordon Freedman \n(gjf00@duts.ccc.amdahl.com); 2/91. Greg Holmberg (holmberg@frame.com), 3/93.]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 130) Can I make Xt or Xlib calls from a signal handler?\n\n\tNo. Xlib and Xt have no mutual exclusion for protecting critical \nsections. If your signal handler makes such a call at the wrong time (which \nmight be while the function you are calling is already executing), it can leave\nthe library in an inconsistent state. Note that the ANSI C standard points\nout that behavior of a signal handler is undefined if the signal handler calls\nany function other than signal() itself, so this is not a problem specific to\nXlib and Xt; the POSIX specification mentions other functions which may be\ncalled safely but it may not be assumed that these functions are called by \nXlib or Xt functions.\n\tYou can work around the problem by setting a flag in the interrupt\nhandler and later checking it with a work procedure or a timer event which\nhas previously been added.\n\n\tNote: the article in The X Journal 1:4 and the example in O'Reilly \nVolume 6 are in error.\n\n[Thanks to Pete Ware (ware@cis.ohio-state.edu) and Donna Converse \n(converse@expo.lcs.mit.EDU), 5/92]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 131) What are these \"Xlib sequence lost\" errors?\n\n\tYou may see these errors if you issue Xlib requests from an Xlib error \nhandler, or, more likely, if you make calls which generate X requests to Xt or \nXlib from a signal handler, which you shouldn't be doing in any case. \n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 132) How can my Xt program handle socket, pipe, or file input?\n\n\tIt's very common to need to write an Xt program that can accept input \nboth from a user via the X connection and from some other file descriptor, but \nwhich operates efficiently and without blocking on either the X connection or \nthe other file descriptor.\n\tA solution is use XtAppAddInput(). After you open your file descriptor,\nuse XtAppAddInput() to register an input handler. The input handler will be \ncalled every time there is something on the file descriptor requiring your \nprogram's attention. Write the input handler like you would any other Xt \ncallback, so it does its work quickly and returns. It is important to use only\nnon-blocking I/O system calls in your input handlers.\n\tMost input handlers read the file descriptor, although you can have an \ninput handler write or handle exception conditions if you wish.\n\tBe careful when you register an input handler to read from a disk file.\nYou will find that the function is called even when there isn't input pending.\nXtAppAddInput() is actually working as it is supposed to. The input handler is \ncalled whenever the file descriptor is READY to be read, not only when there is\nnew data to be read. A disk file (unlike a pipe or socket) is almost always \nready to be read, however, if only because you can spin back to the beginning\nand read data you've read before. The result is that your function will almost\nalways be called every time around XtAppMainLoop(). There is a way to get the \ntype of interaction you are expecting; add this line to the beginning of your \nfunction to test whether there is new data:\n\t if (ioctl(fd, FIONREAD, &n) == -1 || n == 0) return;\nBut, because this is called frequently, your application is effectively in a \nbusy-wait; you may be better off not using XtAppAddInput() and instead setting \na timer and in the timer procedure checking the file for input.\n\n[courtesy Dan Heller (argv@ora.com), 8/90; mouse@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu 5/91;\nOllie Jones (oj@pictel.com) 6/92]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 133) How do I simulate a button press/release event for a widget?\n\n\tYou can do this using XSendEvent(); it's likely that you're not setting\nthe window field in the event, which Xt needs in order to match to the widget\nwhich should receive the event.\n\t If you're sending events to your own application, then you can use \nXtDispatchEvent() instead. This is more efficient than XSendEvent() in that you\navoid a round-trip to the server.\n\tDepending on how well the widget was written, you may be able to call\nits action procedures in order to get the effects you want.\n\n[courtesy Mark A. Horstman (mh2620@sarek.sbc.com), 11/90]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 134) Why doesn't anything appear when I run this simple program?\n\n\n\tYou are right to map the window before drawing into it. However, the \nwindow is not ready to be drawn into until it actually appears on the screen --\nuntil your application receives an Expose event. Drawing done before that will \ngenerally not appear. You'll see code like this in many programs; this code \nwould appear after window was created and mapped:\n while (!done)\n {\n XNextEvent(the_display,&the_event);\n switch (the_event.type) {\n\tcase Expose:\t /* On expose events, redraw */\n\t\tXDrawLine(the_display,the_window,the_GC,5,5,100,100);\n\t\tbreak;\n\t...\n\t}\n }\n\n\tNote that there is a second problem: some Xlib implementations don't \nset up the default graphics context to have correct foreground/background \ncolors, so this program could previously include this code:\n ...\n the_GC_values.foreground=BlackPixel(the_display,the_screen);\t/* e.g. */\n the_GC_values.background=WhitePixel(the_display,the_screen);\t/* e.g. */\n the_GC = XCreateGC(the_display,the_window,\n GCForeground|GCBackground,&the_GC_values);\n ...\n \nNote: the code uses BlackPixel and WhitePixel to avoid assuming that 1 is \nblack and 0 is white or vice-versa. The relationship between pixels 0 and 1 \nand the colors black and white is implementation-dependent. They may be \nreversed, or they may not even correspond to black and white at all.\n\nAlso note that actually using BlackPixel and WhitePixel is usually the wrong \nthing to do in a finished program, as it ignores the user's preference for \nforeground and background.\n\nAnd also note that you can run into the same situation in an Xt-based program\nif you draw into the XtWindow(w) right after it has been realized; it may\nnot yet have appeared.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 135) What is the difference between a Screen and a screen?\n\n\tThe 'Screen' is an Xlib structure which includes the information about\none of the monitors or virtual monitors which a single X display supports. A \nserver can support several independent screens. They are numbered unix:0.0,\nunix:0.1, unix:0.2, etc; the 'screen' or 'screen_number' is the second digit --\nthe 0, 1, 2 which can be thought of as an index into the array of available \nScreens on this particular Display connection.\n\tThe macros which you can use to obtain information about the particular\nScreen on which your application is running typically have two forms -- one\nwhich takes a Screen and one with takes both the Display and the screen_number.\n\tIn Xt-based programs, you typically use XtScreen(widget) to determine \nthe Screen on which your application is running, if it uses a single screen.\n\t(Part of the confusion may arise from the fact that some of the macros\nwhich return characteristics of the Screen have \"Display\" in the names -- \nXDisplayWidth, XDisplayHeight, etc.)\n\t\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 136) Can I use C++ with X11? Motif? XView?\n\t\n\tThe X11R4/5 header files are compatible with C++. The Motif 1.1 header \nfiles are usable as is inside extern \"C\" {...}. However, the definition of\nString in Intrinsic.h can conflict with the libg++ or other String class and\nneeds to be worked around.\n\n\tSome other projects which can help:\n\tWWL, a set of C++ classes by Jean-Daniel Fekete to wrap X Toolkit \nwidgets, available via anonymous FTP from export.lcs.mit.edu as \ncontrib/WWL-1.2.tar.Z [7/92] or lri.lri.fr (129.175.15.1) as pub/WWL-1.2.tar.Z.\nIt works by building a set of C++ classes in parallel to the class tree of the \nwidgets.\n\tThe C++ InterViews toolkit is obtainable via anonymous FTP from \ninterviews.stanford.edu. InterViews uses a box/glue model similar to that of \nTeX for constructing user interfaces and supports multiple looks on the user \ninterfaces. Some of its sample applications include a WYSIWIG document editor \n(doc), a MacDraw-like drawing program (idraw) and an interface builder \n(ibuild).\n\tTHINGS, a class library written at the Rome Air Force Base by the \nStrategic Air Command, available as freeware on archive sites.\n\n\tMotif++ is a public-domain library that defines C++ class wrappers for\nMotif 1.1; it adds an \"application\" class for, e.g., initializing X, and also\nintegrates WCL and the Xbae widget set. This work was developed by Ronald van \nLoon based on X++, a set of bindings done by the University \nof Lowell Graphics Research Laboratory. The current sources are available from \ndecuac.dec.com (192.5.214.1) as /pub/X11/motif++.21.jul.92.tar.Z.\n\t\n\tThe source code examples for Doug Young's \"Object-Oriented Programming \nwith C++ and OSF/Motif\" [ISBN 0-13-630252-1] do not include \"widget wrappers\" \nbut do include a set of classes that encapsulates higher-level facilities \ncommonly needed by Motif- or other Xt-based applications; check export in\n~ftp/contrib/young.c++.tar.Z.\n\tRogue Wave offers \"View.h++\" for C++ programmers using Motif; info:\n1-800-487-3217 or +1 503 754 2311.\n\tA product called \"Commonview\" by Glockenspiel Ltd, Ireland (??) \napparently is a C++-based toolkit for multiple window systems, including PM,\nWindows, and X/Motif.\n\tXv++ is sold by Qualix (415-572-0200; fax -1300); it implements an \ninterface from the GIL files that Sun's OpenWindows Developers Guide 3.0 \nproduces to Xview wrapper classes in C++.\n\n\tUIT is a set of C++ classes embedding the XView toolkit; it is intended\nfor use with Sun's OpenWindows Developers Guide 3.0 builder tool. Sources are \non export.mit.edu.au as UIT.tar.Z. Version 2 was released 5/28/92.\n\t\n\tAlso of likely use is ObjectCenter (Saber-C++). And a reasonable\nalternative to all of the above is ParcPlace's (formerly Solbourne's) Object \nInterface.\n\n[Thanks to Douglas S. Rand (dsrand@mitre.org) and George Wu (gwu@tcs.com);2/91]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 137) Where can I obtain alternate language bindings to X?\n\n\tVersions of the CLX Lisp bindings are part of the X11 core source \ndistributions. A version of CLX is on the R5 tape [10/91]; version 5.0.2 [9/92]\nis on export.lcs.mit.edu in /contrib/CLX.R5.02.tar.Z.\n\n\tThe SAIC Ada-X11 bindings are through anonymous ftp in /pub from\nstars.rosslyn.unisys.com (128.126.164.2). \n\tThere is an X/Ada study team sponsored by NASA JSC, which apparently is\nworking out bindings. Information: xada@ghg.hou.tx.us.\n\tGNU SmallTalk has a beta native SmallTalk binding to X called STIX (by\nSteven.Byrne@Eng.Sun.COM). It is still in its beginning stages, and \ndocumentation is sparse outside the SmallTalk code itself. The sources are \navailable as /pub/gnu/smalltalk-1.1.1.tar.Z on prep.ai.mit.edu (18.71.0.38) or \nugle.unit.no (129.241.1.97).\n\tProlog bindings (called \"XWIP\") written by Ted Kim at UCLA while\nsupported in part by DARPA are available by anonymous FTP from\nexport.lcs.mit.edu:contrib/xwip.tar.Z or ftp.cs.ucla.edu:pub/xwip.tar.Z.\nThese prolog language bindings depend on having a Quintus-type foreign function\ninterface in your prolog. The developer has gotten it to work with Quintus and \nSICStus prolog. Inquiries should go to xwip@cs.ucla.edu. [3/90]\n\tScheme bindings to Xlib, OSF/Motif, and Xaw are part of the Elk\ndistribution; version 1.5a on export obsoletes the version on the R5 contrib\ntape. \n\tx-scm, a bolt-on accessory for Aubrey Jaffer's \"scm\" Scheme interpreter\nthat provides an interface to Xlib, Motif, and OpenLook, is now available via \nFTP from altdorf.ai.mit.edu:archive/scm/xscm1.05.tar.Z and \nnexus.yorku.ca:pub/scheme/new/xscm1.05.tar.Z.\n\n\tAda bindings to Motif, explicitly, will eventually be made available by\nthe Jet Propulsion Laboratories, probably through the normal electronic\nmeans. Advance information can be obtained from dsouleles@dsfvax.jpl.nasa.gov,\nwho may respond as time permits.\n\tAdaMotif is a complete binding to X and Motif for the Ada language, for\nmany common systems; it is based in part upon the SAIC/Unisys bindings and also\nincludes a UIL to Ada translator. Info: Systems Engineering Research \nCorporation, 1-800-Ada-SERC (well!serc@apple.com).\n\n\tAlso: the MIT Consortium, although not involved in producing Ada\nbindings for X, maintains a partial listing of people involved in X and Ada;\ninformation is available from Donna Converse, converse@expo.lcs.mit.edu.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 138) Can XGetWindowAttributes get a window's background pixel/pixmap?\n\n\tNo. Once set, the background pixel or pixmap of a window cannot be \nre-read by clients. The reason for this is that a client can create a pixmap,\nset it to be the background pixmap of a window, and then free the pixmap. The \nwindow keeps this background, but the pixmap itself is destroyed. If you're \nsure a window has a background pixel (not a pixmap), you can use XClearArea() \nto clear a region to the background color and then use XGetImage() to read \nback that pixel. However, this action alters the contents of the window, and \nit suffers from race conditions with exposures. [courtesy Dave Lemke of NCD \nand Stuart Marks of Sun]\n\n\tNote that the same applies to the border pixel/pixmap. This is a \n(mis)feature of the protocol which allows the server is free to manipulate the\npixel/pixmap however it wants. By not requiring the server to keep the \noriginal pixel or pixmap, some (potentially a lot of) space can be saved. \n[courtesy Jim Fulton, MIT X Consortium]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 139) How do I create a transparent window?\n\t\n\tA completely transparent window is easy to get -- use an InputOnly\nwindow. In order to create a window which is *mostly* transparent, you have\nseveral choices:\n\t- the SHAPE extension first released with X11R4 offers an easy way to\nmake non-rectangular windows, so you can set the shape of the window to fit the\nareas where the window should be nontransparent; however, not all servers \nsupport the extension.\n\t- a machine-specific method of implementing transparent windows for\nparticular servers is to use an overlay plane supported by the hardware. Note \nthat there is no X notion of a \"transparent color index\".\n\t- a generally portable solution is to use a large number of tiny \nwindows, but this makes operating on the application as a unit difficult.\n\t- a final answer is to consider whether you really need a transparent\nwindow or if you would be satisfied with being able to overlay your application\nwindow with information; if so, you can draw into separate bitplanes in colors\nthat will appear properly.\n\n[thanks to der Mouse, mouse@lightning.McRCIM.McGill.EDU, 3/92; see also\nThe X Journal 1:4 for a more complete answer, including code samples for this\nlast option]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 140) Why doesn't GXxor produce mathematically-correct color values?\n\n\tWhen using GXxor you may expect that drawing with a value of black on a\nbackground of black, for example, should produce white. However, the drawing\noperation does not work on RGB values but on colormap indices. The color that\nthe resulting colormap index actually points to is undefined and visually\nrandom unless you have actually filled it in yourself. [On many X servers Black\nand White often 0/1 or 1/0; programs taking advantage of this mathematical\ncoincidence will break.]\n\tIf you want to be combining colors with GXxor, then you should be \nallocating a number of your own color cells and filling them with your chosen\npre-computed values.\n\tIf you want to use GXxor simply to switch between two colors, then you \ncan take the shortcut of setting the background color in the GC (graphics \ncontext) to 0 and the foreground color to a value such that when it draws over \nred, say, the result is blue, and when it draws over blue the result is red. \nThis foreground value is itself the XOR of the colormap indices of red and \nblue.\n\n[Thanks to Chris Flatters (cflatter@zia.aoc.nrao.EDU) and Ken Whaley \n(whaley@spectre.pa.dec.com), 2/91]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 141) Why does every color I allocate show up as black?\n\n\tMake sure you're using 16 bits and not 8. The red, green, and blue \nfields of an XColor structure are scaled so that 0 is nothing and 65535 is \nfull-blast. If you forget to scale (using, for example, 0-255 for each color) \nthe XAllocColor function will perform correctly but the resulting color is \nusually black. \n\n[Thanks to Paul Asente, asente@adobe.com, 7/91]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 142) Why can't my program get a standard colormap?\nI have an image-processing program which uses XGetRGBColormap() to get the \nstandard colormap, but it doesn't work. \n\n\tXGetRGBColormap() when used with the property XA_RGB_DEFAULT_MAP does \nnot create a standard colormap -- it just returns one if one already exists.\nUse xstdcmap or do what it does in order to create the standard colormap first.\n\n[1/91; from der Mouse (mouse@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu)]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 143) Why does the pixmap I copy to the screen show up as garbage? \n\n\tThe initial contents of pixmaps are undefined. This means that most\nservers will allocate the memory and leave around whatever happens to be there \n-- which is usually garbage. You probably want to clear the pixmap first using\nXFillRectangle() with a function of GXcopy and a foreground pixel of whatever \ncolor you want as your background (or 0L if you are using the pixmap as a \nmask). [courtesy Dave Lemke of NCD and Stuart Marks of Sun]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 144) How do I check whether a window ID is valid?\nMy program has the ID of a window on a remote display. I want to check whether\nthe window exists before doing anything with it.\n\n\tBecause X is asynchronous, there isn't a guarantee that the window \nwould still exist between the time that you got the ID and the time you sent an\nevent to the window or otherwise manipulated it. What you should do is send the\nevent without checking, but install an error handler to catch any BadWindow \nerrors, which would indicate that the window no longer exists. This scheme will\nwork except on the [rare] occasion that the original window has been destroyed \nand its ID reallocated to another window.\n\n[courtesy Ken Lee (klee@synoptics.com), 4/90]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 145) Can I have two applications draw to the same window?\n\n\tYes. The X server assigns IDs to windows and other resources (actually,\nthe server assigns some bits, the client others), and any application that \nknows the ID can manipulate the resource [almost any X server resource, except\nfor GCs and private color cells, can be shared].\n\tThe problem you face is how to disseminate the window ID to multiple \napplications. A simple way to handle this (and which solves the problem of the\napplications' running on different machines) is in the first application to \ncreate a specially-named property on the root-window and put the window ID into\nit. The second application then retrieves the property, whose name it also\nknows, and then can draw whatever it wants into the window.\n\t[Note: this scheme works iff there is only one instance of the first\napplication running, and the scheme is subject to the limitations mentioned\nin the Question about using window IDs on remote displays.]\n\tNote also that you will still need to coordinate any higher-level \ncooperation among your applications. \n\tNote also that two processes can share a window but should not try to \nuse the same server connection. If one process is a child of the other, it \nshould close down the connection to the server and open its own connection.\n\n[mostly courtesy Phil Karlton (karlton@wpd.sgi.com) 6/90]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 146) Why can't my program work with tvtwm or swm?\n\n\tA number of applications, including xwd, xwininfo, and xsetroot, do not\nhandle the virtual root window which tvtwm and swm use; they typically return \nthe wrong child of root. A general solution is to add this code or to use it in\nyour own application where you would normally use RootWindow(dpy,screen):\n\n/* Function Name: GetVRoot\n * Description: Gets the root window, even if it's a virtual root\n * Arguments: the display and the screen\n * Returns: the root window for the client\n */\n#include \nWindow GetVRoot(dpy, scr)\nDisplay *dpy;\nint scr;\n{\nWindow rootReturn, parentReturn, *children;\nunsigned int numChildren;\nWindow root = RootWindow(dpy, scr);\nAtom __SWM_VROOT = None;\nint i;\n\n __SWM_VROOT = XInternAtom(dpy, \"__SWM_VROOT\", False);\n XQueryTree(dpy, root, &rootReturn, &parentReturn, &children, &numChildren);\n for (i = 0; i < numChildren; i++) {\n\tAtom actual_type;\n\tint actual_format;\n\tlong nitems, bytesafter;\n\tWindow *newRoot = NULL;\n\n\tif (XGetWindowProperty(dpy, children[i], __SWM_VROOT, 0, 1,\n\t False, XA_WINDOW, &actual_type, &actual_format, &nitems,\n &bytesafter, (unsigned char **) &newRoot) == Success && newRoot) {\n\t\t\troot = *newRoot;\n\t\t\tbreak;\n\t\t}\n\t}\n\n\treturn root;\n}\n\n[courtesy David Elliott (dce@smsc.sony.com). Similar code is in ssetroot, a\nversion of xsetroot distributed with tvtwm. 2/91]\n\nA header file by Andreas Stolcke of ICSI on export.lcs.mit.edu:contrib/vroot.h \nfunctions similarly by providing macros for RootWindow and DefaultRootWindow;\ncode can include this header file first to run properly in the presence of a\nvirtual desktop.\n\t\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 147) How do I keep a window from being resized by the user?\n\n\tResizing the window is done through the window manager; window managers\ncan pay attention to the size hints your application places on the window, but \nthere is no guarantee that the window manager will listen. You can try setting \nthe minimum and maximum size hints to your target size and hope for the best. \n[1/91]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 148) How do I keep a window in the foreground at all times?\n\n\tIt's rather antisocial for an application to constantly raise itself\n[e.g. by tracking VisibilityNotify events] so that it isn't overlapped -- \nimagine the conflict between two such programs running. \n\tThe only sure way to have your window appear on the top of the stack\nis to make the window override-redirect; this means that you are temporarily\nassuming window-management duties while the window is up, so you want to do \nthis infrequently and then only for short periods of time (e.g. for popup \nmenus or other short parameter-setting windows).\n\n[thanks to der Mouse (mouse@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu); 7/92]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 149) How do I make text and bitmaps blink in X?\n\n\tThere is no easy way. Unless you're willing to depend on some sort of\nextension (as yet non-existent), you have to arrange for the blinking yourself,\neither by redrawing the contents periodically or, if possible, by playing games\nwith the colormap and changing the color of the contents.\n\n[Thanks to mouse@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (der Mouse), 7/91]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 150)+ How do I get a double-click in Xlib?\n\n\tUsers of Xt have the support of the translation manager to help \nget notification of double-clicking.\n\tThere is no good way to get only a double-click in Xlib, because the \nprotocol does not provide enough support to do double-clicks. You have to do \nclient-side timeouts, unless the single-click action is such that you can defer\nactually taking it until you next see an event from the server. Thus, you \nhave to do timeouts, which means system-dependent code. On most UNIXish \nimplementations, you can use XConnectionNumber to get the file descriptor of \nthe X connection and then use select() or something similar on that.\n\tNote that many user-interface references suggest that a double-click\nbe used to extend the action indicated by a single-click; if this is the case\nin your interface then you can execute the first action and as a compromise\ncheck the timestamp on the second event to determine whether it, too, should\nbe the single-click action or the double-click action.\n\n[Thanks to mouse@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (der Mouse), 4/93]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 151)! How do I render rotated text?\n\t\n\tXlib intentionally does not provide such sophisticated graphics \ncapabilities, leaving them up to server-extensions or clients-side graphics\nlibraries.\n\tYour only choice, if you want to stay within the core X protocol, is to\nrender the text into a pixmap, read it back via XGetImage(), rotate it \"by \nhand\" with whatever matrices you want, and put it back to the server via \nXPutImage(); more specifically:\n\t1) create a bitmap B and write your text to it.\n\t2) create an XYBitmap image I from B (via XGetImage).\n\t3) create an XYBitmap Image I2 big enough to handle the transformation.\n\t4) for each x,y in I2, I2(x,y) = I(a,b) where \n\t\ta = x * cos(theta) - y * sin(theta)\n\t\tb = x * sin(theta) + y * cos(theta)\n\t5) render I2\n\tNote that you should be careful how you implement this not to lose\nbits; an algorithm based on shear transformations may in fact be better.\n\tThe high-level server-extensions and graphics packages available for X \nalso permit rendering of rotated text: Display PostScript, PEX, PHiGS, and GKS,\nalthough most are not capable of arbitrary rotation and probably do not use the\nsame fonts that would be found on a printer.\n\tIn addition, if you have enough access to the server to install a font\non it, you can create a font which consists of letters rotated at some\npredefined angle. Your application can then itself figure out placement of each\nglyph.\n\n[courtesy der Mouse (mouse@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu), Eric Taylor \n(etaylor@wilkins.bmc.tmc.edu), and Ken Lee (klee@synoptics.com), 11/90;\nLiam Quin (lee@sq.com), 12/90]\n\n\tInterViews (C++ UI toolkit, in the X contrib software) has support for\nrendering rotated fonts in X. It could be one source of example code.\n[Brian R. Smith (brsmith@cs.umn.edu), 3/91]\n\tAnother possibility is to use the Hershey Fonts; they are \nstroke-rendered and can be used by X by converting them into XDrawLine \nrequests. [eric@pencom.com, 10/91]\n\n\tThe xrotfont program by Alan Richardson (mppa3@syma.sussex.ac.uk) \n(posted to comp.sources.x July 14 1992) paints a rotated font by implementing \nthe method above and by using an outline (Hershey) font.\n\tThe xvertext package by Alan Richardson (mppa3@syma.sussex.ac.uk) is a \nset of functions to facilitate the writing of text at any angle. Version 3.0 \nwas recently released to alt.sources and comp.sources.misc [3/93]; it is also \non export as contrib/xvertext.3.0.shar.Z. \n\n\tO'Reilly's X Resource Volume 3 includes information from HP about\nmodifications to the X fonts server which provide for rotated and scaled text.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 152) What is the X Registry? (How do I reserve names?)\n\n\tThere are places in the X Toolkit, in applications, and in the X\nprotocol that define and use string names. The context is such that conflicts\nare possible if different components use the same name for different things.\n\tThe MIT X Consortium maintains a registry of names in these domains:\norgainization names, selection names, selection targets, resource types,\napplication classes, and class extension record types; and several others.\n\tThe list as of 7/91 is in the directory mit/doc/Registry on the R5 \ntape; it is also available by sending \"send docs registry\" to the xstuff mail\nserver.\n\tTo register names (first come, first served) or to ask questions send \nto xregistry@expo.lcs.mit.edu; be sure to include a postal address for\nconfirmation.\n\n[11/90; condensed from Asente/Swick Appendix H]\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n\nDavid B. Lewis \t\t\t\t\tfaq%craft@uunet.uu.net\n\n\t\t\"Just the FAQs, ma'am.\" -- Joe Friday ", "If someone has downloaded the PCTools demo from Compuserve,\nplease upload it to CICA or other FTP site.", "\nThe April 13 issue of PC Magazine published benchmarks for the ATI UltraPro\nrunning on both VLB and EISA:\n\n\t800x600,16\t800x600,256\t1024x768,16\t1024x768,256", "I got a harddisk shipped with an IDE specification but not the\nSCSI spec. Would someone tell me how to set the jumper on\nthe harddrive? Thanks. Please email response.", "Attention hardware hackers and bargain seekers!\n\nI just bought a 640x200 pixel LCD panel for 25 UK pounds. I have\na datasheet for a similar panel, but I'm looking for proper data.\n\nIf anyone can help with locating data for this device (before I start\nwith the routine on the phone to Hitachi and rummaging through the\nlibrary), then I'll pass on the source.\n\n\tType: LM225 (Hitachi)\n\tResolution: 640W x 200H (so can do 80x25 chars on 8x8 matrix)\n\nBought from:\n\n\tGreenweld Electronics Ltd\n\t27 Park Rd\n\tSouthampton SO1 3TB, UK\n\n\tTel. +44 703 23 63 63\n\tFax. +44 703 23 63 07\n\tEmail: Compuserve [100014,1463]\n\nNB: I only just bought this! I don't even know if it works!\n\n\tPrice was 25 UK pounds including VAT (17.5%), which isn't\n\tpayable if you're outside the EC.\n\nThanks for any info!\n\n\nChris\n", "Dbase IV, ver 1.5, 3.5 disks. Manuals still shrinkwrapped, and all \nregistration materials present. Asking $125.\n\n", "OK. Instead of holding an auction, I have decided to compute prices for each comic (after many suggestions). These are the most reasonable prices I can give (not negotiable). If you would like to purchase a comic (or group), simply email me with the title and issue #'s you want. The price for each issue is shown beside each comic. First come, first served!!! There is no more bidding. Meet my price and it is yours. I can be reached at this email address:\n\n02106@chopin.udel.edu or\n02106@ravel.udel.edu or\n02106@bach.udel.edu or\n02106@brahms.udel.edu\n\nNO MORE HAGGLING ABOUT THE PRICE!!!!!!!!\nLOTS OF COMICS FOR $1, $2, or $3 LOOK AT LIST!!!!!\n\nShipping is $2 for 1-3 comics. For more than 3, the price will be determined by the volume of the purchase (I may have to use a big heavy box for large orders which costs more to mail).\n\nFor all those who have bought comics from me, thanks!!!\n\nAll comics are near mint unless otherwise noted (my books were graded by\nmile high comics and other comic professional collectors, not me!)\n\nHere is the list:\n\n*reserved* means that I have made a deal with a person and I am waiting for the check to arrive.\n*reserved* comics are as good as sold (sorry!)\n\nIncredible Hulk\n156 (vs another Hulk) $3\n195 $2\n196 $2\n246 (vs Captain Marvel) $1\n248 $1\n249 $1\n250 (Double size issue vs Silver Surfer) $5\n255 (vs Thor) $1\n279 $1\n300 $2\n312 $2\n313 $1\n316 (vs Bi Coastal Avengers) $1\n347 $1 *reserved*\n348 $1\n350 (vs Thing) $2\n354 $1\n358 $1\n360 $1\n362 (vs Werewolf By Night) $2\n364 $1\n365 $1\n366 $1 *reserved*\n379 (1 copy) $5\n\n\nPunisher\n50 $1\n57 $2\n\nPunisher War Journal\n29 (Ghost Rider) $2\n30 (Ghost Rider) $2\n\nPunisher Armory\n1 $4\n2 $2\n\nOriginal Ghost Rider Rides Again (Reprint)\n1 $1\n\nGhost Rider (old series)\n37 $3 *reserved*\n43 (vs Johnny Blaze) $3 *reserved*\n77 (2 copies, origin of GR dream) $4 each\n\nGhost Rider (new series)\n15 (1st print, Green glow in dark cover, 1 copy) $5\n15 (2nd print, gold cover w/ glow cover) $3\n\nWeb of Spiderman\n56 (2 copies) $2 each\n60 $3\n69 (vs Hulk, 1 copy left!!!) $2\n70 (SpiderHulk, 1 copy left!!!) $2\n71 $1\n72 $1\n78 $1\n\nDeadly Foes of Spiderman\n1 (2 copies) $2 each\n2 $2\n3 $2\n\nAmazing Spiderman vs Dr. Octopus (special NACME issue) $2\n\nAmazing Spiderman \n350 (vs Dr. Doom, 1 copy LEFT!!!) $2\n\nSpiderman (1990)\n1 (silver, not bagged) $4\n6 $3\n7 $3\n8 (2 copies) $2 each\n9 (w/ Wolverine, 1 COPY LEFT!!!) $2\n10 $2\n11 $1\n13 $5\n16 $1\n\nEnemy Ace Special #1 $2\n\nNew Warriors\n1 (gold cover) $2\n8 $4\n\nSuperman Man of Steel #1 $2\n\nSuperman (new)\n53 (2 copies) $1 each\n55 $1\n56 $1\n\nAdventures of Superman \n479 $1\nAnnual #3 $1\n\nSuperman Annual #3 (Armegedon 2001 tie in) $1\n\nAction Comics #666 $1\n\nAvengers West Coast #69 (Hawkeye vs US Agent) $1\n\nBatman\n465 (Robin returns) $2\n466 $1\n467 $1\nAnnual #15 (Armegedon 2001 tie in) $3\n\nCaptain America \n230 (vs Hulk) $2\n257 (vs Hulk) $1\n\n\nArmegedon 2001 \n1 $4\n2 $2\n\n\nFoolkiller #1 $2\n\n\nInfinity Gauntlet \n1 $6\n4 $3\n5 $3\n\nDouble Dragon #1 $1\n\nDeathlok (series) \n2 $1\n\nTransformers #80 (last issue) $2 \n\nWonder Man\n1 $1\n2 $1\n\nFlaming Carrot #25 (w/ Ninja Turtles) $2\n\nThe Comet #1 $1\n\nLegend of the Shield #1 $1\n\nJustice Society of America\n1 $1\n2 $1\n3 $1\n4 $1\n\nOfficial movie mag from Turtles II movie (sealed w/ Jelloman comic) $5\n\nRobin \n1 (1 copies w/ poster) $3\n1 (3rd print) $1\n5 (6 copies) $1 each\n\nGuardians of the Galaxy \n1 $6\n2 $3\n3 $2\n4 $2\n5 $2\n6 $2\n7 $2\n8 $2\n9 (2 copies) $3 each\n10 $2\n11 $2\n12 $1\n13 $3\n14 $3\n15 $1\n16 $1\n17 $1\n18 (2 copies) $2 each\n\nSuperman vs Amazing Spiderman (oversized issue from 70's) $7 *reserved*\n\nDarkHawk\n1 (3 copies) $8 each\n2 (2 copies) $6 each\n3 $5\n4 $4\n5 $4\n6 $3\n7 $2\n8 $2\n9 $3\n10 $1\n\nThor\n246 $1\n428 $1\n429 (vs Juggernaut) $2\n430 (w/ Ghost Rider) $1\n431 $1\n432 (Thor vs Loki, 2 copies) $3 each\n433 (new Thor) $2\nAnnual #16 $1\n\nWhat if....\n13 $1\n23 $1\n25 $2\n26 $1\n\nAlpha Flight\n29 $1\n51 $6\n53 $6\n94 (vs Fant. 4) $1\n\nNew Mutants\n22 $2\n100 (last issue, 1st look at X-Force, 1st print, 2 copies) $5 each\n100 (2nd print, gold cover) $4\n\nFlash (new)\n43 $1\n48 $1\n49 $1\n50 $2\n51 $1\nAnnual #4 $1\n\n\n\nUncanny X-Men\n191 $3\n215 $2\n255 (2 copies) $2 each\n258 $6\n275 (1 COPY LEFT 1st print) $6\n275 (gold 2nd print) $3\n276 $3\n277 $3\n278 $2\n279 $2\n280 $2\n281 $3\n282 $4\n283 $6\n\nDefenders\n52 (Hulk vs Sub Mariner) $2\n\n\nFantastic Four\n347 $4\n348 $2\n349 (3 copies) $2 each\n\nWolverine\n11 $3 *reserved*\n20 $2\n41 (w/ Cable, 2 copies) $6 each\n42 $4\n43 $3\n\nSilver Surfer (1987)\n1 $6\n2 $3\n3 $3\n4 $3\n5 $2\n6 $2\n8 $2\n22 $2\n24 $2\n32 $2\n49 $2\n50 (Foil cover, only 1 copy left!!) $6\n51 $2\n52 $2\n53 $1\n54 $1\n55 $1\n56 $1\n58 $2\n59 $2\n\nAvengers\n326 $3\n328 (origin of Rage) $3\n\nX-Factor\n40 $6\n67 $3\n68 $6\n71 $3\n73 $1\n\nGreen Lantern (1990)\n3 $2\n9 (2 copies) $1 each\n10 $1\n11 $1\n12 $1\n\nToxic Avenger\n1 (3 copies) $1 each\n2 $1\n\nSleepwalker\n1 (3 copies) $2 each\n3 $1\n7 $1\n\nKool Aid Man #1 (sealed in white bag, 2 copies) $2 each\n\nX-Force\n1 (bagged w/ Cable Card) $4\n1 (bagged w/ Shatterstar Card) $3\n2 $2\n3 $1\n4 $1\n\nNFL Superpro\n1 $1\n\nDr. Strange #31 $1\n\nHawkworld Annual #2 (2nd print, Armegedon 2001 tie in) $1\n\nHawk & Dove Annual #2 (Armegedon 2001 tie in) $1\n\nJustice League of America Annual #5 (Armegedon 2001 tie in) $1\n\n\n\nSend all comments to\n\n02106@chopin.udel.edu\n\nThanks\nSam (the \"ex\" comic book collector)\n", "I have noticed in FrameMaker 3.1X on both the SGI and SUN platforms\nthat certain dialogs, such as \"Column Layout...\" for example, respond\nto keyboard traversal even though the pointer is NOT in the dialog\nwindow and even though the window manager keyboard focus policy is\nPOINTER.\n\nHow is this done?\n\nI would like to emulate this behavior in my application. It seems a\nreasonable behavior since when a dialog is popped up from a keyboard\naction, the dialog is not guaranteed to be under the pointer and the\nuser should not have to reach for the mouse just to move the focus.\n\nAlternatively, I'm open to any suggestions as to what is the \"right\"\nway to insure that popups get the focus when they appear, particularly\nwhen they are invoked from the keyboard and one's keyboard focus\npolicy is pointer.", "Hi Steve,\n\nAs the author of Multiverse, I feel I had better respond to your\nmailnote questioning whether anyone had managed to compile this\nsoftware - the quick answer is yes! The long answer is yes - but a\nfew have had a few problems with their platforms - not all unix's are\nthe same, you know! As far as \"many bugs\" go, it would probably be more\nuseful to everyone (including you) if you were a bit more explicit! :-)\n\nPlatforms it has succesfully compiled and run on are: RS6000, Dec Ultrix\nSun Solaris so it is possible.\n\nThe main problem is that I don't have access to other platforms than the\nRS6000, so if there are portability problems then the only way I hear\nabout them is by people letting me know and giving me a clue as to\nhow to fix it.\n\nAs far as the software not doing anything, do you really think I would\nbother releasing it, if that was the case? Perhaps you didn't read the\nfew docs that ARE supplied. The dogfight world is made up of clients\nonly, so if you're in there on your own, then you're not going to see\nanything! The dactyl world has quite a lot of scenary - so if you don't\nsee anything there, then this is definitely a problem!\n\nOne final word - if you're not interested, don't bother with it.\nIf you are interested, then please remember that I'm not asking for\nany money! So why not try a little patience and constructive criticism,\nmaybe that will get results??", "I have a 486/50Mhz ISA Board with 256kbyte Cache and 16 Megs\nRAM. I just bought the new soundblaster 16 and tried to \ninstall the card. The sb16 uses 16bit DMA channel.I could\nselect between channel 5 to 7. It is the first card I ever\ninstalled that uses 16bit dma transfer. After I tested\nthe card the first time, the computer crashed and I got a\nparity error-system halted. This happens either from dos as\nalso from windows. So it seems that my 16 bit dma channels\nare not working properly (they are there because testsb16.exe\nrecocnize them and tests them ok until first access). \n\nWell, does anybody know a solution for this problem or a\nspecial test program for dma problems? I eliminated the \nproblem temporaly by using only 8 bit dma channel but it\nmakes the system slow!", "I'm running HP-UX 8.07 with HP VUE 2.01 and I need a hardcopy of\n the login window (the one asking for login and password) to \n include in a manual. \n I have tried:\n xwd -display hostname:0 -root -out login.xwd \n\n from a login on a remote terminal, but it doesn't work. \n Xwd seems to wait for the window server, but the window\n server doesn't answer. \n\n Any suggestions? I must use xwd because I don't have access to\n ftp and I can't obtain another program to grab the screen.\n\n Thanks in advance\n Nadia Pitacco\n\n-- ", "What 4 or more com port boards are available for PCs? \nWe want standard com ports, so no need to mention the expensive\ncoprocessed ones.\n\nThey should either be able to share IRQs or be able to use IRQs 8-15.", "Three q's:\n\n1) is it reliable?\n\n2) how does it send the information from a MS Windows app over\nthe X11 protocol? Does it just draw everything as graphics into\none window, or does it use multiple windows and essentially work\nmore cleverly?\n\n3) If I want to run MS Word, for example, remotely, do I have to\nrun a separate copy of MS Windows remotely, and then start MS\nWord from that, or can MS Word be started remotely on its own?", "\nEven 24Bit TrueColor machines are in most cases running an emulated\n8 bit PseudoColor visual, only to get standard x clients, motif apps and\nthelike to run. I strongly suppose you to emulate at least:\n\n should not make big misfits\n pixel indices, conversion stuff. Furthermore, you should run your default\n screen on this visual.\n", "[ ..see previous article on this debate for the rests.. ]\n\nI can see XV-3.00 agree with my view in cases you don't -- even I say\nmy personal opinion (as above), it doesn't mean that it is not most\nobvious thing.\nPlease, if you use my previous writings as contradicting argument,\nplease do read them -- you have not saw them at all; you just\nrefered to text from which I wrote 'something' -- and you make\nhard decisions from that, without reading what exactly I have written.\n\nIt is really hard read when one writes a reply line by line method\nand don't understand include previously written material with the new\nsentences to give them meaning. You seem to be one such.\n\nYou also start replying to my articles, even you don't understand what\nis going on; you ask me repeatedly to decsribe my views what were\nwrong with XV 2.21 even I posted them within the article you did reply\nto. Believe me, it is not nice to get flamed specially when I know\nthat you have not read my article carefully in the first place.\n\nXV-3.00 and JPEG FAQ and users I have written to agree me with the\nplaces you didn't; I'm sure you just didn't undertand what about I\nwrote. We can blame my writing skills (in English?) for that, or?\n\nBetter stop the discussion and check what new ideas XV-3.00 gives;\nI allready mailed one to Bradley...\n", "I've installed many X apps, and have that many of them Imakefiles that have\nlines startingwith XCOMM in them. When I do a xmkmf to create the Makefile,\nthe Makefile also has the XCOMM (comment?) lines in them. I always have\nto edit out these lines because the make command barfs on them. I was\nwondering what these lines were for, and what I might be doing wrong that\ncauses the make command to dislike them. Thanks!\n", "\nI think you would need a DOS macro program. Superkey (by Borland?)\ncomes to mind. I don't think Windows is capable of sending\nkeystrokes to a DOS window.\n\nWhat you want to do sounds like a security problem to me, though.", "I just bought an actix graphics engine 32 plus with 2 megs. \n\nI am not impressed...\n\nI have been having all sorts of problems with the board. Various lock-ups\nin windows, problems with the screen not centering, no flexibilty in choosing\nsynch rates for a monitor, buggy windows drivers, lack of 1024x768x64k driver,\n\nIf anyone else has one of these cards, please e-mail me...\n\nLooks like i'm going to try the ati ultra plus...\n\n", "I currently have a AD-lib card, it can play .mid files in windows\nbut it cannot play the startup .wav files.. \ni called microsoft... no help.\ni cannot call ad-lib since they went belly up.\n\ndoes anyone know if there are special drivers that i need for this?\nif so, where are they?\n\nThanx in ad-libvance!! :-)\n\n", "\n\n\nTake a look at WinQVT/net -- the latest version is QVT/net 3.4\nIt comes in versions that are direct to packet driver, as well as a PC NFS \nversion.\n\nIt is priced quite low; registration = $40, student registration = $20, and is \na nice package -- comes complete with VT220 terminal emulation, FTP, POP3 \nclient, LPR, and NNTP client.\n\nYou can FTP it from \"biochemistry.bioc.cwru.edu\" /pub/qvtnet/qvtnet34.zip\n\nIt was also uploaded to ftp.cica.indiana.edu recently.\n\nAshok\n", "\n\nThe PC World reviewers found out that the Herc people had hard-coded\nWinbench text into the driver. Clever, no? In any case, the Winbench\nresults are pretty much inflated.\n\nWhen and if you get one send me mail.. I might buy that ATI GU+ off\nyou.. 9-)\n\n\n\n-- ", "Hi there,\n\n\nI have a question regarding Quadras VRAM. I have tried to find info on this\nbut I could not get precise answers.\n\nOn one hand, we have a Quadra 950 with a 16\" monitor, which is capable of\n32-bit color. How much VRAM does it have?\nOn the other hand, we have a Quadra 800 with a 16\" monitor, which is capable\nof 8-bit color only, so it must have 512 Ko of VRAM.\n\nI would like to take VRAM SIMMs for the 950 and put them in the 800 so that\nboth machines have 16-bit color capability.\nIs it possible, and if yes, how many VRAM SIMMs should I take from the 950?\nFrom the documentation I have, the Quadra 800 must get 1 Mo VRAM to have\n16-bit color, is that correct?\n\nBonus question: where do VRAM SIMMs hide? From the 950 documentation, they\nseem to be *behind* the power supply. Do I really have to take off the power\nsupply to access the VRAM SIMMs?\n\n\nThanks for your help!\n", "I've just completed a successful upgrade of a an SI to 27.5 mhz. I'm waiting\non delivery of a 62 mhz clock for a final speed trial. Definitely needed the\nheatsink. The CPU was quite hot to the touch at higher speeds until I glued\non a 90 cent Radio Shack sink. \n\nI made a call for reports of failures last week. No reports have arrived\nhere. Locally, in Seattle there is a reported CPU damage due to the user\nslipping with the iron and putting a gash into the board -- not exactly\na problem due to the CPU running too fast.\n\nI think it would be nice to have a poll to report top speeds and system\nconfigurations including PDS and Nubus cards which were used. I'd be happy\nto coordinate and report results", "Hi,\n\n\t\n\n Could someone explain to me what exactly the Xlib functions \n\nXCreateRegion, XPolygonRegion, XPointInRegion do, or to \n\nsuggest a ftp site where I can find programs using these functions.\n\n\nPS: The man pages does not explain much ......\n\n\t\nThank you,\nLeo.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n-- \n---------------------------------------------------------------------\nLeonidas Nikidis : ln@doc.ic.ac.uk\tImperial College, London,UK\n\t\t\t\t\tDept. of Computing", "I have forsale a 486 25 slc notebook very small\nINCLUDES THE FOLLOWING: CYRIX 486 25MHZ PROC. ( FAST )\n MIDWEST MICRO ELITE SERIES\n 60 MEG HARD DRIVE (120 W/ STACKER)\n 1 3.5INCH DRIVE\n 1 SERIAL, 1 PARALLEL\n 2 MEGS OF RAM ( UPGRADABLE TO 8 MEGS )\n 64 shades of grey VGA\n built in trackball\n very fast machine\n LOADED WITH WINDOWS,STACKER\n DOS 5.0,\n CARRYING CASE, AND POWER SUPPLY\n\nbought it just 3 months ago for $1500.00 and realized\nI don't need this much power in a notebook.\nI was asking $1300.00... Now the first person with $1150.00 takes it.", ": \n: \n: Shadow mask is when you put your face into\n: main memory.\n: ", "\nHi...\n\n\tTHe best sound conversion program I've ever seen is SoundTool, which\nis shareware from Germany. I found a copy somewhere in wuarchive.wustl.edu\na long time ago, but I don't know offhand what directory it was under. It's\nGREAT at converting files of all types, including Mac, NExT, Sun, and\nvarious PC formats... It's also a great player and editor, with various\nspecial effects that put Windows' Sound Recorder to shame. It requires a\ndriver for various sound cards... The only builtin one is for the pc speaker\n(and even that sounds pretty good), but if you're just using it to convert\nthings, you can convert them in SoundTool and then play them in Sound\nRecorder.\n\nGive it a try!\n\nBret", "Hello All,\n\nI have a PC Transporter for sale. It will work with either an Apple IIe or a\nGS. However, I only have the GS installation kit. This PCT also has a\nco-processor installed. It comes with the latest software (2.05) and a 3.5\ndrive. So what you get is :\n\nPC Transporter (no problems runs great)\nInstallation kit for above PCT (GS) with video tape instructions\nAll needed harware with color adapter for monitor\n8087 co processor installed on board\nAll manuals and software (ver 2.05 AEPC)\none 3.5 800K drive to hook to the PCT (or GS)\n\n\t\t Brian Laakso", ": We are interested in purchasing a grayscale printer that offers a good\n: resoltuion for grayscale medical images. Can anybody give me some\n: recommendations on these products in the market, in particular, those\n: under $5000?\n\n: Thank for the advice.", "I would realy like to hear from someone that has one of these NANAO T560i\nmonitors that is driving it with a Diamond SpeedStar 24x. With the 24x\nset up to run at its 58.1 khz 72.0hz output mode, and realy driving the\nhell out of the monitor. Just woundering if the NANAO T560i would fall\napart with poor low capabilities like my (3) Sony 1604s did with the 24x\ndriving their balls off...Sam", "\n\n\n\n\nIt's the applications that do this. Unfortunately, even the applets\nthat ship with Win31 seem to have this problem (I've seen it in\nSolitaire, for example). \n\n\nNone that I know of. If an application doesn't give back the\nresources, they are lost and gone forever, pending a restart of\nWindows. \n\n\nIf the applications don't free up the memory (and a lot of them\ndon't), there's bugger all that any other piece of software can do\nabout it.\n\n\nNo. This is a problem with the applications, usually.\n\n\nThere are books written on this one. In general, just be sure to free\nup everything that you ask for before you exit. Unfortunately, I\nunderstand that VB will *internally* lose resources for you, so\nthere's no way to avoid this entirely.\n\n\n\nThere's little discussion because it's 'inevitable' until MS manages\nto come up with an OS that will do garbage collection or something on\nthe resource pool.\n\n-- \n\"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live\n in the real world.\" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden", "You'll probably have to set the palette up before you try drawing\nin the new colours.\n\nUse the bios interrupt calls to set the r g & b values (in the range\nfrom 0-63 for most cards) for a particular palette colour (in the\nrange from 0-255 for 256 colour modes).\n\nThen you should be able to draw pixels in those palette values and\nthe result should be ok.\n\nYou might have to do a bit of colourmap compressing if you have\nmore than 256 unique rgb triplets, for a 256 colour mode.\n", "I have a (very old) Mac 512k and a Mac Plus, both of which \nhave the same problem.\n\nTheir screens blank out, sometimes after a minor physical jolt\n(such as inserting a floppy in the internal drive), sometimes \nall by themselves (computer left to itself just goes blank).\n\nI have replaced the wires connecting the logic boards and the \nvideo board, because it seemed at first that jiggling the wires\nmade the screen come back on. This worked for a while, but the\nblanking out has returned.\n\nCan I do anything? Do I need a new power supply? A new CRT?\nA new computer?\n\nThanks for any advice...\n\n--------------------------\nEthan Bodin\nTufts University\nebodin@pearl.tufts.edu", "Hello fellow 'netters.\n\nI am asking for your collected wisdom to help me decide which printer I\nshould purchase, the Canon BJ200 (BubbleJet) vs. the HP DeskJet 500. I\nthought, rather than trust the salesperson, I would benefit more from\nrelying on those who use these printers daily and use them to their fullest\npotential. And, I figure all of you will know their benefits and pitfalls\nbetter than any salesperson.\n\nNow, I would greatly appreciate any information you could render on the 360\ndpi of the Canon BubbleJet vs. the Hewlett-Packard DeskJet 500 (300 dpi).\nWhich is faster? Is there a noticeable print quality difference,\nparticularly in graphics? Which will handle large documents better (75\npages or more) -- any personal experience on either will be appreciated\nhere? Which works better under Windows 3.1 (any driver problems, etc)?\nCost of memory, font packages, toner cartridges, etc? Basically, your\npersonal experiences with either of these machines is highly desirable,\nboth good and bad.\n\nAdvance kudos and thanks for all your input. E-mail or news posting is\nreadily acceptable, but e-mail is encouraged (limits bandwidth).\n\n--\nSincerely,\n\nRobert Kayman\t----\tkayman@cs.stanford.edu -or- cpa@cs.stanford.edu", "I don't think speed has been determined, since it has never run on Intel chips.\nBut on the Amiga's Motorola Chips, it was one of the fastest true 'Ray Tracers'\n\nI don't think Impulse would port it over and not take speed into consideration.\n\nIn terms of features, and learning curve... ALL that you stated for 3DS is also\ntrue for Imagine, and lots more... But I'll have to admit that after 3 years of\nuse on the Amiga, the learning curve is very steep. This is due ONLY to the\nmanual. It is realy BAD. However, there is a lot of after market support for\nthis product, including regular 'Tips' articles in many magazines such as \"AVID\nand a great book by Steve Worley called \"Understanding Imagine 2.0\" This book i\nis not just recommened, IT IS A MUST!", "Your Custom Resume On Disk!\n \n *Macintosh or IBM compatible!*\n \n\t Never pay the high cost of copy service again. We will completely\ndevelop and format your custom resume package and mail you the disk or\ntransmit the information via electronic mail within 48 hours! With over\n25 years experience in the employment industry and a member of the\nNational Resume Writer's Association you can leave the burden of\ndeveloping your resume to us! You can easily custom edit all\ninformation to target each company and position.\n \n Complete $40.00 package includes:\n -> Custom developed resume\n -> Custom cover letter\n -> Custom follow-up letter\n -> Custom interview thank you letter\n -> Custom job acceptance letter\n -> Custom job decline letter\n -> Custom resignation letter\n \nLaser printed copies on high-quality paper available upon request. ", "Sorry about not mentioning platform... my original post was to mac.programmer,\nand then decided to post here to comp.graphics.\n\nI'd like the 3D software to run on primarily Mac in either C, Object Pascal\n(Think or MPW). But, I'll port to Windows later, so a package that runs on\nMac and has a Windows version would be ideal.\n\nI'm looking for a package that has low upfront costs, and reasonable licensing\ncosts... of course :)", "\nHow much support do you need? I don't think there's anything\nthat prohibits you from implementing such a widget, though you\nwill have to write your own versions of the functions that draw\nthe 3D shadow and traversal highlighting.\n", " ^^^^^^^^\n\nWell, I'm not sure I'd go quite that far, but I agree that Motorola\ngear is of better quality. The question is how much that quality\nis worth to a ham in amateur service, not commercial service\n\n\nOk, great. But how often does that come up? How good is\n\"good enough\", and how much is someone willing to pay for it?\nA good ham-quality HT is maybe $500, while a commercial\nquality one is maybe $2000. Is the increased reliability and\nperformance worth 4 times the price *in amateur service*?\nOnly the individual involved can answer that question, and each\nham has to decide for him/herself. If Motorola quality is worth\n4 times the price to you, then more power to ya'. But I'm amazed\nthat folks make that choice. For, me, given that I've got $2000 to\nspend, I'l pick the Yaesu ht and a nice new HF rig every time over\na Motorola ht alone, no matter how good it is. To me, ham-quality\ngear is \"good enough\". To each his own...\n\n73... Mike, N4PDY", "\n\nTry swapping the phone cables in the back of the modem.\n", "if you have a memory card installed that's not one of apple's, this\nmay be the problem. for a couple of months after the release of\nthe duo, some memory manufacturers were shipping duo memory cards w/\nimproper (non-self-refreshing) chips. if you have a third party \ncard, pull it and see if the sleep problem recurs.\n - tim \n\n", "I need help positioning the slider of a List widget's horizontal scrollbar. I am displaying the full\npath of a selected file in a list widget. The horizontal's slider defaults to the left side of the\nlist widget; however, I need the slider on the right side. This is so the user can SEE the file name\nthey selected. I know it's possible, because when files are displayed in a file selection dialog box,\nthe slider is on the right side.\n\nThanking any and all who can help in advance,\nRodney F. Clay", "\nI believe that the \"A-D converters\" found on a joystick port are really\ntimers that tick off how long it takes an R-C circuit (the R being your\npaddle) to charge up to something like 1/2 Vcc. For games this works\npretty well, but you certainly wouldn't want to try to take lab\nmeasurements off something as non-linear as that.\n\nHmm... I suppose you could linearize it in software, but the real problem\nis that the precision of your measurement is no longer constant (higher\nvoltages would be more precise).\n\nOn the other hand, I could be wrong and perhaps the game card designers\nsplurged for the extra $.50 to make a cheap constant current source out of\nan op amp. But I wouldn't expect that...", "\nI posted that document (forgot part 1/6 etc) but it was more than a summary,\nit was a complete technical description of the protocol. It can be ftped\nfrom simtel or from wuarchive.wustl.edu in mirrors/msdos/naplps\n\n\nWhy not write a NAPLPS decoder for your choice of platform and release the\ncode to the net? Then other willing souls can help port it to other platforms.\nNAPLPS was designed for this type of online interactive graphics much the\nsame as X, but while X is intended for high-bandwidth network connections,\nNAPLPS was optimized for low bandwidth modem connections.\n\nI'm sure you will receive other suggestions but look at it this way. If you\nwanted to provide a full network connection to Linux over a modem would you\nuse SLIP/PPP or would you invent some new way? Most people would say that\nSLIP/PPP exist and are reasonably well designed protocols, so lets just\nimplement them. I see it the same way with NAPLPS. It is an existing, well\nthought out, extensible protocol for online graphics, so why not implement\nit.\n\nIf you need any advice on implementation, just e-mail me. I am currently\ngetting a beta version of my CorelDraw to NAPLPS converter working well\nenough to release it by May 15. If you or someone else does not get going\non a freely available NAPLPS decoder, then I intend to do it after I get\na my conversion program out of beta, and get a couple of other things done.\n", "\nFor those of you who don't need 24 bit, I got a 32 colour Amiga IFF\nof a cloudless Earth (scanned). Looks okay when mapped on a sphere.\nE-mail me and I'll send it you...\n\nLouis\n", "\nSomebody in comp.multimedia was also having trouble using a Spigot in his\nLC III. It turned out he needed the latest version of ScreenPlay (1.1.1),\nwhich fixed things.", "Hi!\n\nI am looking for a source of lithium batteries for an original Mac II. The\nnumber on the battery is ER 1/2 AA. Local electronic shops & computer stores\nfreak when inquire. The fastest any of them can get a battery to me is 2-3\nweeks for about $20. Anything faster and/or cheaper is welcome!\n\nPlease respond to me via e-mail and I will summarize to the net.\n\nNote my e-mail address differs from the return address of this posting.\n\nThanks in advance for your help!", "\n\nI've tried compiling it on several SPARCstations with gcc 2.22. After\nfixing up a few bugs (3 missing constant definitions plus a couple of\nother things) I got it to compile & link, but after starting client\n& server I just get a black window; sometimes the client core dumps,\nsometimes the server, sometimes I get a broken pipe, sometimes it\njust sits there doing nothing although I occassionally get the\ncursor to become a cross-hair in dog-fight, but that's it. I've\nsent word to the author plus what I did to fix it last week, but\nno reply as yet.", "\n\nWell, the fastest, crudest mixer (aside from just physically connecting\nall your inputs together directly) is to run each signal through a \nresistor to a common output. The resistors give some isolation so the\nsignal sources aren't driving directly into each other. \n\nTaking a wild, seat-of-the-pants guess, I'd say that if you are mixing\nhigh-impedance sources like some dynamic mikes, electric guitar pickups,\netc., your resistors ought to be maybe 5K - 10K or so. If you are mixing\nline-level stuff or the outputs of a Walkman, or such, I'd go with 1K.\n\ninput 1 --/\\/\\/\\/ -------------+--- output\n |\ninput 2 --/\\/\\/\\/\\-------------+\n |\ninput 3 --/\\/\\/\\/\\-------------+\n\n", "\n\nBack in high school I worked as a lab assistant for a bunch of experimental\npsychologists at Bell Labs. When they were doing visual perception and\nmemory experiments, they used vector-type displays, with 1-millisecond\nrefresh rates common.\n\nSo your case of 1/200th sec is quite practical, and the experimenters were\nprobably sure that it was 5 milliseconds, not 4 or 6 either.\n\n\nSteve", "Does anyone know of any free X-servers for PCs, preferably that run under\nMS Windows? THANKS.", "Discounts! Please take\t$2.00 off each item over $10.00\n $1.00 off each item over $ 5.00\n\nHere is the list of magazines, including asking price:\n--------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nStrategy & Tactics Magazine (All include unpunched games):\n===========================\n\nNEW (52 & 79-90 As mailed with games and all inclusions.)\n\nIssue:\tTitle:\t\t\t\t\t\t\tAsking:\n\n52\tOil War - American Intervention in The Persian Gulf\t35.00\n\n79\tBerlin '85 - The Enemy at the Gates\t\t\t20.00\n81\tTito - Partisan Army Yugoslavia, 1941-45\t\t20.00\n83\tKaiser's Battle - German Offensive March, 1918\t\t20.00\n84\tOperation Grenade - Rhineland Feb 23-Mar 5, 1945\t20.00\n89\tSicily - The Race to Messina Jul 10-Aug 17, 1943\t20.00\n90\tThe Battle of Monmouth - Colonies take Offensive 1778\t20.00\n\n----------End of an Era ---------------------------------------------\n\nNEW (113-127 As mailed with games and all inclusions in envelope.)\n\nIssue:\tTitle:\t\t\t\t\t\t\tAsking:\n\n113\tThe Battle of Abensberg (Magazine only)\t\t\t15.00\t\n115 Kanev - Russian Paratroops\t\t\t\t15.00\n116\tManchu - The Taiping Rebellion\t\t\t\t15.00\n117\tNorth German Plain - Modern Germany\t\t\t15.00\n118\tThe Tigers Are Burning - Camp. in the Ukraine '43-44\t15.00\n120\tNicararagua\t\t\t\t\t\t15.00\n122\tPegasus Bridge - The Beginning of D-Day\t\t\t15.00\n123\tCampaigns in the Valley\t\t\t\t\t15.00\n124\tFortress Stalingrad - Russian Winter Offensive '42-43\t15.00\n125\tThe Far Seas - German Cruiser Operations WWII\t\t15.00\n126\tBeirut 1982 - Arab Stalingrad\t\t\t\t15.00\n127\tRush for Glory - War with Mexico 1846-47\t\t15.00\n\n\nThe AH General Magazine: (Many other articles included in each issue)\n=======================\n\nIssue\tTitle\t\t\t\tAsking Vol. #\n\n7-80 Crescendo of Doom 8.00 \t17/2\n11-80\tFortress Europa\t\t\t8.00 \t17/4\n1-81\tCircus Maximus\t\t\t8.00 \t17/5\n3-81\tStalingra\t\t\t8.00 \t17/6\n5-81\tBismark, Squad Leader Clinic \t8.00 \t18/1\n\n\nCampaign Magazine: (Many other articles included in each issue)\n=================\n\nIssue\tTitle\t\t\t\tAsking\n\n97\tCrescendo of Doom\t\t 8.00\n101\tCross of Iron\t\t\t 8.00\n102\tCounterstroke at Inchon\t\t 8.00\n104\tSquad Leader Variant\t\t 8.00\n106\tGDW's 1941\t\t\t 8.00\n108 Battle for Leyte Gulf\t 8.00\n\nAll magazine prices include postage. ALL ISSUES ARE IN NEW OR LIKE-NEW \nCONDITION.\n \n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nGames and Books:\n===============\n\nYaquinto Publications, Inc.:\n===========================\n\nAttack of the Mutants - Introductory Game\t\t\t$ 5.00\n(Unpunched, new.)\n\n---\n\nThe Complete Book of Wargames (out of print)\t\t\t$30.00\n--------------------------------------------\nAuthor: Jon Freeman\n(Part 1 Introduction 75 pages - \n\tincluding Ch. 4 Kassala: An Introductory Wargame)\n(Complete information on over 150 wargames as of 1980)\n[hardcover, 285 pages, large format]\n\n---\n\nShipping extra on books and games.\n\nPrefer money orders for payment, I'll allow personal checks to clear before\nshipping. \n\n\t\t\t\t\tLarry\n\n\nLarry McElhiney\n1385 7th Avenue #10\nSanta Cruz, CA 95062", "Has anybody seen empty Everex's being sold ?\nI want the cube. Not the computer inards.\nWill it take standard AT-size motherboards ?\n\nThanks. e-mail please.\n\n-- ", "I have one of those HEAVY antique upright pianos I would like to\ncontribute to any charity with muscle enough to get it out of my house.\n\nIf I get no response from a charity I will sell to for $100, you haul.\n\nIt is in good shape, needs tuning. I'm in south Durham county.", "I have a small network running in my dorm at school, and I am kind of\nworried about the length of the wires and the way that I have run it.\nI was wondering if anyone might have some schematic or at least some\nideas on how to make some sort of simple appletalk repeater. I'm not\nso interested in making actual zones and zone names, just a way to\nisolate different branches of the network.\n\nDoes anyone have any ideas on what could be done??", "I am boring my sister HP DeskJet 500C for the weekend and I was wondering\nin their was any drivers for it available some where that would allow\nme to use it with my Mac SE/30. I have a copy of MacPrint but I do think\nthat I have a driver for the 500C. I would be happy to get it working\nin black & white, but if there is away to get the color working that would\nbe better. Any ideas someone?\n\nRegards,\n\n", "This may be an FAQ, but I dont know where to get the FAQ list!\nMy OpenLook application has a few buttons. The first button turns\nred(gets highlighted?) as soon as the sprite(mouse) is moved into the\napplication window. How do I suppress this?", "--\n\n\nMy wife is a physiotherapist and she is looking for some cliparts of\nskeleton and male/female body. We're currently using Windows Draw \nwhich can import all kind of graphic formats. Therefore, anything\nwill do.\n\nPlease advise of the existance of any freeware or commerical source\nthat we can turn to. Since I don't normally read this newsgroup,\nplease responds via e-mail.\n\n\nThanks in advance.\n\n", "\nWe tried to ship an X server once that only supported a 24bit\nTrueColor visual. The main problems we encountered were:\n\n\t1) Clients written with logic like the following:\n\n\t if (DefaultDepth() != 1)\n\t\t/* Assume default depth is 8bit */\n\n\t These clients need an 8bit deep visual in the root window\n\t to run correctly.\n\n\t2) Other clients didn't even bother to do that much, and just\n\t outright assumed they had a *dynamic* visual class, with a\n\t dynamic colormap. XStoreColors doesn't work on cmaps\n\t associated with Static or TrueColor visual classes, but\n\t many clients don't bother to check, they just start\n\t throwing XStoreColor calls at you.\n\nThough both are clearly client error, this is the case with so many\nclients that it's easier for you to expose 8bit PseudoColor as a\ndefault root window visual, than it ever would be for all these client\nwriters to change their clients to do the right thing.\n--", "Hi everyone. Just the other day, I ordered a VRAM chip for my new LCIII from\nMac Connection. They sent it overnight (very nice) and I got it installed,\nand we found that it didn't work properly. When you put the computer in \nthousands mode, the bottom of the screen (using the new chip) is all flickering\nand fuzzy. So I called them up and I'm going to return it for a new one.\n\nMy question is, how often does such a thing happen with SIMM chips in general?\nDo you often find when ordering chips that a large portion are bad? Is this\na rarity? This is the first chip I've ordered so I have no other experience\nin this area. I'm just curious if anyone else has had the same type of\nexperience.\n\nThat's about it. Please email me, and if people want, I can post a summary.\nThanks all.\n-- \nHillel Sims ----- simsh@rpi.edu ----- Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute", "\tGood point, but I was just thinking.. I wanted to sell my HP28sx\ncalculator here in this newsgroup... It is called a calculator, but really\nit is a computer, albeit a small one, but it does function as one... How\ncome car adds are acceptable? They cant run without computers nowadays....\nWhere does one draw the line? Accept it, live with it, and if you care to,\navoid it.... \njonathan", "ld: Unidentified external symbol\n _get_wmShellWidgetclass\n _get_applicationshellwidgetclass\n\n I use -lXaw -lXmu -lXext -lX11 -lXt not in this order but in a proper order\n\nI am wondering if there has to be some changes in my link libraries or should\ni include some more libraries.\n\nANy help in this matter will be very useful and highly appreciated", "Claris Filemaker Pro Database Manager for sale. Still in package.\n\n$240 or best offer.\n\nCall (415) 824 6209, ask for Larry.", ": \n: >|> Has anyone got multiverse to work ?\n: >|> Extn 5543, sts@mfltd.co.uk, !uunet!mfocus!sts\n: \n: I've tried compiling it on several SPARCstations with gcc 2.22. After\n: fixing up a few bugs (3 missing constant definitions plus a couple of\n: other things) I got it to compile & link, but after starting client\n: & server I just get a black window; sometimes the client core dumps,\n: sometimes the server, sometimes I get a broken pipe, sometimes it\n: just sits there doing nothing although I occassionally get the\n: cursor to become a cross-hair in dog-fight, but that's it. I've\n: sent word to the author plus what I did to fix it last week, but\n: no reply as yet.\n: \n: Peter K. Campbell\n: p.campbell@trl.oz.au\n\nI've discovered a bug in the libraries/parser/parser.c loadcolour function where it was generating a segmentation fault. It appears the colourList[] is geting corrupted somehow. I had it return random colours instead and everything worked great (except for a few colour problems) so I know its the only thing wrong.\n\nThe colour table somehow gets a couple of nulls placed in it so when the \"name\" of the colours are compared it crashes. I haven't found the problem yet maybe someone else can.", "My roommate left me his Playboy collection which he no longer wants, so I'm\noffering them to the general public. (THAT'S YOU!)\n\n MAKE AN OFFER FOR THE *ENTIRE COLLECTION*\n I will accept the best offer.\n (Offer does *NOT* include cheapest method of shipping from Bethlehem, PA)\n\n1992:\n February (Supermodel Rachel Williams, World Tour, & POM Tanya Beyer)\n\n1991:\n May (Shannon & Tracy Tweed & POM Carrie Jean Yazel)\n July (Tall girls, Miss Bulgaria, & POM Wendy Kaye)\n September (Barbi twins & POM Samantha Dorman)\n November (La Toya Jackson & POM Tonja Marie Christensen)\n December (Dian Parkinson from \"The Price is Right\" & POM Wendy Hamilton)\n\n1990:\n July (Sharon Stone, Marilyn look-alike, & POM Jacqueline Sheen)\n October (Girls of the Big West, Gladiator Marisa Pare, & POM Brittany\n York)\n November (Teri Copley from \"We Got It Made\", Sex in Cinema, & POM\n Lorraine Olivia, stewardess)\n\n1989:\n January (35th Anniversary Issue - Collector's Edition)\n February (Year in Sex, Rio's Grand, & POM Simone Eden)\n March (La Toya Jackson & POM Laurie Wood)\n August (Women of Wall St., Diana Lee from \"License to Kill\", & POM\n Gianna Amore)\n November (Donna Mills, Sex in Cinema '89, & POM Renee Tenison)\n\n1988:\n August (Sunshine Girls & POM Helle Michaelsen)\n October (Girls of the Southwest Conference & POM Shannon Long)\n November (Women of Washington, Sex in Cinema '88, & POM Pia Reyes)\n December (Playmate Review, Sex Stars of '88, Lysette Anthony, & POM\n Kata Karkkainen)\n\n1987:\n November (Jessica Hahn, Sex in Cinema '87, & POM Pam Stein)\n\nAlso: *** Special Edition: \"Playboy Presents: 100 Beautiful Women\" ***\n-- ", "Are there any graphics texts with examples/demos/projects directly in\nX?\n\nThe last time I taught the course, I used a popular graphics text that\nuses its own graphics package, with implementations available for\nX/Mac/PC. The problem was that after the course the students were good\nat programming in the artificial package, but frustrated that they\ncouldn't really use their skill for other work.\n\n", "[For those attending the AAAI conf this summer, note that\nthis conference is immediately preceding it.]\n\n\n PRELIMINARY PROGRAM AND REGISTRATION MATERIALS\n\n First International Conference on\n Intelligent Systems for Molecular Biology\n\n Washington, D.C.\n July 6-9, 1993\n\nSponsored by:\n The National Institutes of Health, \n National Library of Medicine\n\n The Department of Energy, \n Office of Health and Environmental Research\n\n The Biomatrix Society\n\n The American Association for Artificial Intelligence (AAAI)\n\nPoster Session and Tutorials: \n Bethesda Ramada Hotel\n\nTechnical Sessions:\n Lister Hill Center Auditorium, National Library of Medicine\n\nFor more information contact ISMB@nlm.nih.gov or FAX (608)262-9777\n\n PURPOSE\nThis, the First International Conference on Intelligent Systems \nfor Molecular Biology, is the inaugural meeting in a series \nintended to bring together scientists who are applying the \ntechnologies of artificial intelligence, robotics, machine \nlearning, massively parallel computing, advanced data modelling, \nand related methods to problems in molecular biology. The scope \nextends to any computational or robotic system supporting a \nbiological task that is cognitively challenging, involves a \nsynthesis of information from multiple sources at multiple levels, \nor in some other way exhibits the abstraction and emergent \nproperties of an \"intelligent system.\" \n\n FACILITIES\nThe conference will be held at\n Lister Hill Center \n National Library of Medicine\n 8600 Rockville Pike\n NIH, Building 38A\n Bethesda MD 20894\nSeating in the conference center is strictly limited, so \nregistrations will be accepted on a first-come, first-serve basis. \nAccomodations, as well as a reception and poster session, will be \nat the\n Bethesda Ramada Hotel \n 8400 Wisconsin Avenue\n Bethesda MD 20814\nA special room rate has been negotiated with the hotel, of $92/day \n(expires 6/21). Attendees must make their own reservations, by \nwriting the hotel or calling (800)331-5252 and mentioning the \nISMB conference. To participate in a roommate-matching service, \ne-mail opitz@cs.wisc.edu.\n\n TRANSPORTATION\nThe two facilities are within easy walking distance, convenient to \nthe subway (Metro Red Line, Medical Center stop), and from there \nto the Amtrak station. Nearby airports include Dulles, National, \nand Baltimore-Washington International. \n\n PROCEEDINGS\nFull-length papers from both talks and posters will be published in\narchival proceedings. The citation is: \n\n Proceedings of the First International \n Conference on Intelligent Systems for \n Molecular Biology (eds. L. Hunter, \n D. Searls, and J. Shavlik) AAAI/MIT\n Press, Menlo Park CA, 1993. \n\nCopies will be distributed at the conference to registered \nattendees, and will be available for purchase from the publisher \nafterwards.\n\n TALKS\nWednesday, July 7, 1993\n-----------------------------------------------------------------\n8:00-9:00am Continental Breakfast\n\n9:00-9:15am Opening Remarks\n\n9:15-10:30am Invited Talk\n \"Statistics, Protein Cores, and Predicted Structures\"\n Prof. Temple Smith (Boston University)\n\n10:30-11:00am\tBreak\n\n11:00am\t\"Constructive Induction and Protein Structure Prediction\"\n T.R. Ioerger, L. Rendell, & S. Surbramaniam\n\n11:30am\t\"Protein Secondary-Structure Modeling with Probabilistic \n Networks\" A.L. Delcher, S. Kasif, H.R. Goldberg, & W. Hsu\n\n12:00-1:30pm\tLunch\n\n1:30pm\t\"Protein Secondary Structure using Two-Level Case-Based \n Reasoning\" B. Leng, B.G. Buchanan, & H.B. Nicholas\n\n2:00pm \t\"Automatic Derivation of Substructures Yields Novel \n Structural Building Blocks in Globular Proteins\" \n X. Zhang, J.S. Fetrow, W.A. Rennie, D.L. Waltz, & G. Berg\n\n2:30pm \t\"Using Dirichlet Mixture Priors to Derive Hidden Markov \n Models for Protein Families\" M. Brown, R. Hughey, A. Krogh, \n I.S. Mian, K. Sjolander, & D. Haussler\n\n3:00-3:30pm\tBreak\n\n3:30pm\t\"Protein Classification using Neural Networks\" \n E.A. Ferran, B. Pflugfelder, & P. Ferrara\n\n4:00pm\t\"Neural Networks for Molecular Sequence Classification\"\n C. Wu, M. Berry, Y-S. Fung, & J. McLarty\n\n4:30pm\t\"Computationally Efficient Cluster Representation in \n Molecular Sequence Megaclassification\" D.J. States, N. Harris, \n & L. Hunter\n\n7:00-7:30pm Poster Setup\n7:30-10:00pm Reception & Poster Session \n\nThursday, July 8, 1993\n-----------------------------------------------------------------\n8:00-9:00am Continental Breakfast\n\n9:00-10:15am Invited Talk\n \"Large-Scale DNA Sequencing: A Tale of Mice and Men\"\n Prof. Leroy Hood (University of Washington)\n\n10:15-10:45am\tBreak\n\n10:45am\t\"Pattern Recognition for Automated DNA Sequencing: \n I. On-Line Signal Conditioning and Feature Extraction for \n Basecalling\" J.B. Bolden III, D. Torgersen, & C. Tibbetts\n\n11:15am\t\"Genetic Algorithms for Sequence Assembly\" \n R. Parsons, S. Forrest, & C. Burks\n\n11:45am\t\"A Partial Digest Approach to Restriction Site Mapping\"\n S.S. Skiena & G. Sundaram\n\n12:15-2:00pm\tLunch\n\n2:00pm\t\"Integrating Order and Distance Relationships from \n Heterogeneous Maps\" M. Graves \n\n2:30pm\t\"Discovering Sequence Similarity by the Algorithmic \n Significance Method\" A. Milosavljevic\n\n3:00pm\t\"Identification of Human Gene Functional Regions Based on \n Oligonucleotide Composition\" V.V. Solovyev & C.B. Lawrence\n\n3:30pm\t\"Knowledge Discovery in GENBANK\"\n J.S. Aaronson, J. Haas, & G.C. Overton\n\n4:00-4:30pm\tBreak\n\n4:30pm\t\"An Expert System to Generate Machine Learning \n Experiments: Learning with DNA Crystallography Data\"\n D. Cohen, C. Kulikowski, & H. Berman \n\n5:00pm \t\"Detection of Correlations in tRNA Sequences with \n Structural Implications\" T.M. Klingler & D. Brutlag\n\n5:30pm\t\"Probabilistic Structure Calculations: A Three-\n Dimensional tRNA Structure from Sequence Correlation Data\" \n R.B. Altman\n\nFriday, July 9, 1993\n-----------------------------------------------------------------\n8:00-9:00am Continental Breakfast\n\n9:00-10:15am Invited Talk\n \"Artificial Intelligence and a Grand Unified Theory of \n Biochemistry\" Prof. Harold Morowitz (George Mason University)\n\n10:15-10:45am\tBreak\n\n10:45am\t\"Testing HIV Molecular Biology in in silico Physiologies\" \n H.B. Sieburg & C. Baray\n\n11:15am\t\"Identification of Localized and Distributed Bottlenecks \n in Metabolic Pathways\" M.L. Mavrovouniotis\n\n11:45am\t\"Fine-Grain Databases for Pattern Discovery in Gene \n Regulation\" S.M. Veretnik & B.R. Schatz\n\n12:15-2:00pm\tLunch\n\n2:00pm\t\"Representation for Discovery of Protein Motifs\"\n D. Conklin, S. Fortier, & J. Glasgow\n\n2:30pm\t\"Finding Relevant Biomolecular Features\" \n L. Hunter & T. Klein\n\n3:00pm\t\"Database Techniques for Biological Materials and \n Methods\" K. Baclawski, R. Futrelle, N. Fridman, \n & M.J. Pescitelli\n\n3:30pm\t\"A Multi-Level Description Scheme of Protein \n Conformation\" K. Onizuka, K. Asai, M. Ishikawa, & S.T.C. Wong\n\n4:00-4:30pm\tBreak\n\n4:30pm\t\"Protein Topology Prediction through Parallel Constraint \n Logic Programming\" D.A. Clark, C.J. Rawlings, J. Shirazi, \n A. Veron, & M. Reeve\n\n5:30pm\t\"A Constraint Reasoning System for Automating Sequence-\n Specific Resonance Assignments in Multidimensional Protein\n NMR Spectra\" D. Zimmerman, C. Kulikowski, & G.T. Montelione\n\n5:30-5:45pm\tClosing Remarks\n\n POSTER SESSION\nThe following posters will be on display at the Bethesda Ramada \nHotel from 7:30-10:00pm, Wednesday, July 7.\n\n[1] \"The Induction of Rules for Predicting Chemical\n Carcinogenesis in Rodents\" D. Bahler & D. Bristol\n\n[2] \"SENEX: A CLOS/CLIM Application for Molecular Pathology\" \n S.S. Ball & V.H. Mah\n\n[3] \"FLASH: A Fast Look-Up Algorithm for String Homology\"\n A. Califano & I. Rigoutsos\n\n[4] \"Toward Multi-Strategy Parallel Learning in Sequence \n Analysis\" P.K. Chan & S.J. Stolfo\n\n[5] \"Protein Structure Prediction: Selecting Salient Features \n from Large Candidate Pools\" K.J. Cherkauer & J.W. Shavlik\n\n[6] \"Comparison of Two Approaches to the Prediction of Protein \n Folding Patterns\" I. Dubchak, S.R. Holbrook, & S.-H. Kim\n\n[7] \"A Modular Learning Environment for Protein Modeling\"\n J. Gracy, L. Chiche & J. Sallantin\n\n[8] \"Inference of Order in Genetic Systems\" \n J.N. Guidi & T.H. Roderick\n\n[9] \"PALM - A Pattern Language for Molecular Biology\"\n C. Helgesen & P.R. Sibbald\n\n[10] \"Grammatical Formalization of Metabolic Processes\" \n R. Hofestedt\n\n[11] \"Representations of Metabolic Knowledge\" \n P.D. Karp & M. Riley\n\n[12] \"Protein Sequencing Experiment Planning Using Analogy\"\n B. Kettler & L. Darden\n\n[13] \"Design of an Object-Oriented Database for Reverse Genetics\" \n K.J. Kochut, J. Arnold, J.A. Miller, & W.D. Potter\n\n[14] \"A Small Automaton for Word Recognition in DNA Sequences\"\n C. Lefevre & J.-E Ikeda\n\n[15] \"MultiMap: An Expert System for Automated Genetic Linkage \n Mapping\" T.C. Matise, M. Perlin & A. Chakravarti\n\n[16] \"Constructing a Distributed Object-Oriented System with \nLogical Constraints for Fluorescence-Activated Cell Sorting\"\n T. Matsushima\n\n[17] \"Prediction of Primate Splice Junction Gene Sequences with \n a Cooperative Knowledge Acquisition System\"\n E.M. Nguifo & J. Sallantin\n\n[18] \"Object-Oriented Knowledge Bases for the Analysis of \n Prokaryotic and Eukaryotic Genomes\" \n G. Perriere, F. Dorkeld, F. Rechenmann, & C. Gautier\n\n[19] \"Petri Net Representations in Metabolic Pathways\"\n V.N. Reddy, M.L. Mavrovouniotis, & M.L. Liebman\n\n[20] \"Minimizing Complexity in Cellular Automata Models of \n Self-Replication\" J.A. Reggia, H.-H. Chou, S.L. Armentrout, \n & Y. Peng\n\n[21] \"Building Large Knowledge Bases in Molecular Biology\"\n O. Schmeltzer, C. Medigue, P. Uvietta, F. Rechenmann, \n F. Dorkeld, G. Perriere, & C. Gautier\n\n[22] \"A Service-Oriented Information Sources Database for the \n Biological Sciences\" G.K. Springer & T.B. Patrick\n\n[23] \"Hidden Markov Models and Iterative Aligners: Study of their \n Equivalence and Possibilities\" H. Tanaka, K. Asai, M. Ishikawa,\n & A. Konagaya\n\n[24] \"Protein Structure Prediction System Based on Artificial \n Neural Networks\" J. Vanhala & K. Kaski\n\n[25] \"Transmembrane Segment Prediction from Protein Sequence \n Data\" S.M. Weiss, D.M. Cohen & N. Indurkhya\n\n TUTORIAL PROGRAM\nTutorials will be conducted at the Bethesda Ramada Hotel on \nTuesday, July 6.\n\n12:00-2:45pm \"Introduction to Molecular Biology for Computer \n Scientists\" Prof. Mick Noordewier (Rutgers University)\n\nThis overview of the essential facts of molecular biology is \nintended as an introduction to the field for computer scientists \nwho wish to apply their tools to this rich and complex domain. \nMaterial covered will include structural and informational \nmolecules, the basic organization of the cell and of genetic \nmaterial, the \"central dogma\" of gene expression, and selected \nother topics in the area of structure, function, and regulation as \nrelates to current computational approaches. Dr. Noordewier has \nappointments in both Computer Science and Biology at Rutgers, and \nhas extensive experience in basic biological research in addition \nto his current work in computational biology.\n\n12:00-2:45pm \"Introduction to Artificial Intelligence for \n Biologists\" Dr. Richard Lathrop (MIT & Arris Corp.)\n\nAn overview of the field of artificial intelligence will be \npresented, as it relates to actual and potential biological \napplications. Fundamental techniques, symbolic programming \nlanguages, and notions of search will be discussed, as well as \nselected topics in somewhat greater detail, such as knowledge \nrepresentation, inference, and machine learning. The intended \naudience includes biologists with some computational background, \nbut no extensive exposure to artificial intelligence. Dr. \nLathrop, co-developer of ARIADNE and related technologies, has \nworked in the area of artificial intelligence applied to \nbiological problems in both academia and industry.\n\n3:00-5:45pm \"Neural Networks, Statistics, and Information Theory \n in Biological Sequence Analysis\" Dr. Alan Lapedes (Los Alamos \n National Laboratory) \n\nThis tutorial will cover the most rapidly-expanding facet of \nintelligent systems for molecular biology, that of machine \nlearning techniques applied to sequence analysis. Closely \ninterrelated topics to be addressed include the use of artifical \nneural networks to elicit both specific signals and general \ncharacteristics of sequences, and the relationship of such \napproaches to statistical techniques and information-theoretic \nviews of sequence data. Dr. Lapedes, of the Theoretical \nDivision at Los Alamos, has long been a leader in the use of such \ntechniques in this domain.\n\n3:00-5:45pm \"Genetic Algorithms and Genetic Programming\" \n Prof. John Koza (Stanford University)\n\nThe genetic algorithm, an increasingly popular approach to highly \nnon-linear multi-dimensional optimization problems, was originally \ninspired by a biological metaphor. This tutorial will cover both \nthe biological motivations, and the actual implementation and \ncharacteristics of the algorithm. Genetic Programming, an \nextension well-suited to problems where the discovery of the size \nand shape of the solution is a major part of the problem, will \nalso be addressed. Particular attention will be paid to \nbiological applications, and to identifying resources and software \nthat will permit attendees to begin using the methods. Dr. Koza, \na Consulting Professor of Computer Science at Stanford, has taught \nthis subject since 1988 and is the author of a standard text in \nthe field.\n\n3:00-5:45pm \"Linguistic Methods in Sequence Analysis\" \n Prof. David Searls (University of Pennsylvania) \n & Shmuel Pietrokovski (Weizmann Institute)\n\nApproaches to sequence analysis based on linguistic methodologies \nare increasingly in evidence. These involve the adaptation of \ntools and techniques from computational linguistics for syntactic \npattern recognition and gene prediction, the classification of \ngenetic structures and phenomena using formal language theory, the \nidentification of significant vocabularies and overlapping codes \nin sequence data, and sequence comparison reflecting taxonomic and \nfunctional relatedness. Dr. Searls, who holds research faculty \nappointments in both Genetics and Computer Science at Penn, \nrepresents the branch of this field that considers higher-order \nsyntactic approaches to sequence data, while Shmuel Pietrokovski \nhas studied and published with Prof. Edward Trifinov in the area \nof word-based analyses.\n\n REGISTRATION FORM\nMail, with check made out to \"ISMB-93\", to:\n\n ISMB Conference, c/o J. Shavlik\n Computer Sciences Department\n University of Wisconsin\n 1210 West Dayton Street\n Madison, WI 53706 USA\n\n ================================================\n\n Name____________________________________________\n\t\n Affiliation_____________________________________\n\t\n Address_________________________________________\n\n ________________________________________________\n\n ________________________________________________\n\n ________________________________________________\n\n Phone___________________________________________\n\n FAX_____________________________________________\n\n Electronic Mail_________________________________\n\t\n Registration Status: ____ Regular ____ Student\n\n Presenting? ____ Talk ____ Poster\n ================================================\n TUTORIAL REGISTRATION \n\n ____\"Molecular Biology for Computer Scientists\"\n or\n ____\"Artificial Intelligence for Biologists\"\n - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - \n ____\"Neural Networks, Statistics, and \n or Information Theory in Sequence Analysis\"\n ____\"Genetic Algorithms and Genetic Programming\"\n or \n ____\"Linguistic Methods in Sequence Analysis\"\n ================================================\n PAYMENT (Early Registration Before June 1)\n\n Registration: Early Late\t $___________\n Regular $100 $125\t\n Student $75 $100\t\n Tutorials: One Two $___________\n Regular $50 $65\t\n Student $25 $35\t\n Total: $___________\n ================================================\n Registration fees include conference proceedings, \n refreshments, and general program expenses. \n\n\n ORGANIZING COMMITTEE\n Lawrence Hunter NLM \n David Searls U. of Pennsylvania\n Jude Shavlik U. of Wisconsin", "Has anyone successfully converted Interleaf graphics to CGM, or even heard\nof it being done????\n\n\nWe'd love to hear about it.\n\n-Mike McConnell", "I have a quick question regarding the Rockwell Chipset\nthat's`come out relatively recently--It supports v.32, v.32bis,\nv.42, Group III Fax, and so on... However, I heard there\nare bugs in the chipset. I know someone that has a ZOOM\n14.4 Modem that uses the chipset, and he hasn't had a problem.\n\nWhat's the word on the chipset? Is this a ROM bug specific \nto a specific brand using the Rockwell, or is it the Rockwell\nchipset itself? And, if it is the Rockwell chipset, what \nare the chances that if I buy one of these modems (using the\nRockwell chipset), that a) the bug will affect me, b) a ROM\nchange will fix/compensate for the bug?\n\nPlease send responses via email... \n\n--Joe Zbiciak\nim14u2c@cegt201.bradley.edu / im14u2c@camelot.bradley.edu\n\n--\nJoseph Zbiciak im14u2c@camelot.bradley.edu\n[====Disclaimer--If you believe any of this, check your head!====]\n------------------------------------------------------------------", "All,\n\nDuring my attempts to find out how the AT harddisk controller\nworks I stumbled across I/O port 376h. The \"normal\" controller\nports are in the 1F0h-1F7h range, so what does this port do???\n\nThe only information I have upto now about this port is that it\nis a write only port and the information you have to write in it\nis related to the number of heads on the disks.\n\nCould somebody shed some light on this and give me the missing info.\n\nThanks,", "\n\nI too would like a 3D graphics library! How much do C libraries cost\nanyway? Can you get the tools used by, say, RenderMan, and can you get\nthem at a reasonable cost?\n\nSorry that I don't have any answers, just questions...", "I'm looking to build a microphone preamp that has very good low-noise characteristics, large clean gain, and incorportates phantom power (20-48 volts (dc)) for a PZM microphone. I'm leaning towards a good, low-cost (??) instrumentation amplifier to maintain the balanced input from the microphone, for its good CMRR, internal compensation, and because i can use a minimal # of parts. \n\nDoes anyone out there have any experience, suggestions, advice, etc...that they'd like to pass on, I'd greatly appreciate it.\n\n", "\nVirtualGrabKeys is not an OW resource. It belongs to\nolvwm(1).", "Hi,\n\nI have a HP LaserJet III for sale. It's been printed for\nless than 1500 pages according the self test report. I\nam asking $1000 for it. If interested, please e-mail.", "\nActually, the iAPX86 family has a HALT instruction that causes the CPU to\ncease processing instructions. The CPU resumes processing either by being\nreset or by receiving an external (hardware) interrupt. This is different\nfrom the power management facilities Victor mentions. Of course, whether an\noperating system's idle loop uses the HALT instruction is another matter\nentirely.\n-- \nKenneth R. Ballou\t\t\t\tVOICE:\t\t (617) 494-0990\nOberon Software, Inc.\t\t\t\tFAX:\t\t (617) 494-0414\nOne Memorial Drive, Cambridge, MA 02142\tInternet: ballou@oberon.com", ": Is there a fix for this? We have a Quadra 900 that will NOT finish startup\n: unless there is a monitor connected. This would be no problem, but since\n: we're running it as a file server, there is no need to have a monitor\n: connected all the time.\n\nI've seen a control panel made for this. I don't remember the name, where I\nsaw it, or on what Quadra models it will work. But I do know it exists :)\n\n/Mats\n", "It is the new command with Dos 6 that allows you to erase your directory and\nall the files in it, without first erasing the individual files.\n\n-- ", ": Experiment: From a Sun openwindows 4.1.3 xterm window log into a\n: Solaris 2.x machine using rlogin; now do an \"ls\" and get the first\n: character of each line display in the last column of the display\n: with the rest of the line wrapped to the next line of the display.\n\n: Log out and the condition persists. Check stty all, try reset\n: with no effect.\n\nThe condition happens when the TAB is not set to 8 spaces, set and\nthen check out.\n", "Do anyone know about any shading program based on Xlib in the public domain?\nI need an example about how to allocate correct colormaps for the program.\n\nAppreciate the help.", "Has anyone had any experience with a replacement comm driver for windows\ncalled TurboComm. I read about it in PCMag Apr 23 1993 and am interested\nbut not willing to shell out the 45 bucks the company wants just to try it\nout. It supposedly eleminates the problems that occur during a high speed\nfile transfer and a disk access made by another program running at the same\ntime. If anyone has any pro/cons about this product, i would be very inter\nested to hear them. Please Email at the address give below. THANKS.", "Hi, netters!\n\nI've just built X11R5 pl 21 under Solaris 2.1. I've used the multi-screen \npatch, as well as the R5.SunOS... patch and everything builds great, except \n\"Cannot set default font path '[stuff deleted]'\" and \"Cannot set default font\n'fixed'\". If I supply the -fp option, it doesn't complain about the font path\nbut still complains about the font. I have symlinks from /usr/lib/ to the \nplace where my distribution lives.\n\nCould somebody help me?\n\n\t-joel\n\n-- \n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nJoel Reymont ! Z-Code Software Corporation ! e-mail: joel@z-code.com \n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n4340 Redwood Hwy, Suit B.50, San Rafael, CA 94903", "SIGKIDS CALL FOR PARTICIPATION\nSIGKids Research Showcase is where learning is hip. Pushing the edge in\neducation, computer graphics, and new technologies, the SIGKids Research\nShowcase will provide SIGGRAPH's attendees with the latest in applying\ncomputer technology to form state of the art educational experiences. So\nhop to it! Submit any works which converge the disciplines of education\nand computer technology.\n\nPossible categories and domains include but are NOT LIMITED to:\n\n-Interactive/stand-alone applications\n-Self-Run demonstrations and tutorials\n-Museum Installations\n-Groupware/Collaborative systems\n-Hypermedia\n-Virtual Reality\n-Scientific Visualization\n-Interactive Art\n-Microworlds\n\nDeadlines:\n\nMay 21, 1993 submissions due \n\n\nSubmit to:\n\nDiane Schwartz\nSIGGRAPH '93 SIGKids Committee\nc/o The Institute for the Learning Sciences\n1890 Maple Avenue, Suite 150\nEvanston, Illinois 60201\nFax:\t708.491.5258\nschwartz@ils.nwu.edu\n\nElectronic Submission Form:\nschwartz@ils.nwu.edu\n\nHow to Submit:\n1. Fill out the 'Permission to Use' form (see page 19 of the SIGGRAPH '93\nCall for Participation or send email to schwartz@ils.nwu.edu to have one\nfaxed to you.)\n\n2. Fill out the SIGKids '93 Research Showcase Submission Form (below).\n\n3. Send an abstract/description of the submission (approximately 100 words)\nin one of the following ways:\n\n A. Send 3 hard copies to Diane Schwartz (via surface mail) at the above\n address\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t OR\n B. Fax 1 copy to Diane Schwartz at (708)491-5258\n OR\n C. Email 1 copy to Diane Schwartz at schwartz@ils.nwu.edu\n\n4. If it is necessary to explain the project, additional support material\nsuch as videotapes and slides that will assist the selection committee in\nreaching a decision are highly reccommended. \n\nFax and email submissions are acceptable.\n\nPLEASE SEND ALL OF YOUR SUBMISSION MATERIAL IN THE SAME FORM (either\nsurface mail, email, or fax. The only exception to this should be the\nadditional support material which should only be sent via surface mail). \n\nNOTE: Due to our very limited budget, if the submitter chooses to have a\ndedicated machine for their work, they will have to pay rental fees\nfor the hardware personally.\n\nNOTE: Contributors outside for the United States should be aware of customs\nand carrier delays and send submissions early.\n\n______________________________________cut\nhere__________________________________\n\n ACM SIGGRAPH '93 SIGKIDS RESEARCH SHOWCASE ENTRY FORM\n\n\nA copy of this form must accompany each proposal you submit. Send SIGKids\nResearch Showcase Entries to:\n\nDiane Schwartz\nSIGGRAPH '93 SIGKids Committee\nc/o The Institute for the Learning Sciences\n1890 Maple Avenue, Suite 150\nEvanston, Illinois 60201\nFax:\t708.491.5258\nschwartz@ils.nwu.edu\n\nPlease print legibly.\n\nContact Information: \nName________________________________________________\n\nCompany______________________________________________\n\nAddress______________________________________________\n\nCity_________________________________________________\n\nState_____________Postal code______________Country_________________ \n\nDaytime phone_____________________Evening phone____________________\n\nFax_____________________________Email______________________________\n\nAdditional Information:\n\nTitle or Theme of Piece__________________________________ \n\nParticipant(s') name(s)___________________________________\n\nCollaborator(s') name(s)__________________________________ \n\nHardware (platform and periferals):\n\n1. What is\nneeded:_____________________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\n2. Supplied by Participant:\n\n\t\t___ Yes ___ No\n\n\t3. Dedicated machine?\n\n\t\t___ Yes ___ No\n\nNOTE: Due to our very limited budget the participant must pay the rental\nfees for any dedicated hardware.\n\n___Need assistance\n(specify)____________________________________________________ \n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\n\nSoftware________________________________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\nStatement - Please tell us the significance of the work.\n(less than 50 words)\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\nMedium:\n\n___Other (describe - i.e. virtual reality, virtual sculpture, interactive\nmultimedia installation,\netc.)__________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\n\nSpecial Requirements:\n\nPhysical\ndescription____________________________________________________________ \n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\nPower___________________________________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\nDimensions______________________________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\nOther__________________________________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\nAuthorization\n\nPermission to use visual and audio: In the event that materials used in my\nACM SIGGRAPH'93 SIGKids Research Showcase Entry contain the work of other\nindividuals or organizations (including any copyrighted musical\ncompositions or excerpts thereof), I understand that it is my\nresponsibility to secure any necessary permissions and/or liscenses. \n\n\t___Yes ___No My piece contains images, audio, or video components.\n If yes:\n\t ___Yes ___No I have the necessary rights and/or permissions\nto\n use the images, audio, or video components in\nmy\n piece.\n\nConference presentation release: By signing this form, I grant SIGGRAPH'93\npermission to consider my piece for the SIGKids Research Showcase. I\nmaintain the copyright to my work and will receive full credit wherever\nthis work is used.\n\nConference promotional material: I grant ACM SIGGRAPH the right to use my\nslides for conference and organization publicity, both now and in the\nfuture. This includes usage on posters, brochures, catalogs, promotional\nitems, or media broadcast. In exchange, SIGGRAPH provides full\nauthor/artist credit information on all promotional material.\n\n___Yes ___No I grant ACM SIGGRAPH permission to use slides of my work\n for conference and organization publicity.\n\nSignature______________________________________Date_________\n\nACM SIGGRAPH makes every attempt to respect and protect intellectual \nproperty rights of people and organizations preparing material for \nSIGGRAPH conferences. This entry form explains the uses SIGGRAPH will \nmake of the material and requires you to acknowledge that you have \npermission to use this material. This may involve seeking clearance from \nyour employer or from others who have loaned you material, such as \nvideotapes and slides. This form helps prevent situations whereby \nSIGGRAPH'93 presentations include material without permission that \nmight lead to complaints or even legal action.", "\n\nIt is kind of absurd, isn't it? Some players even want more distortion,\nespecially the Hendrix fans :-) But there are a lot of them out there\nthat can only afford the amp, or who like playing music without distortion.\nThen there are your hard-core Hendirx fans that want particular *types*\nof distortion, i.e., they make it, not their amps.\n\n\n\nI didn't see a thing about waste-heat from Babbage, and haven't seen one\nof those mechanical TV's in a while, so it's anybodie's guess :-)\n\n-Tommy Mac\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTom McWilliams 517-355-2178 wk \\ They communicated with the communists,\n18084tm@ibm.cl.msu.edu 336-9591 hm \\ and pacified the pacifists. -TimBuk3", "I have some brand new copies of the following books for sale. Some are \ndown-rev, don't know which or by how much: look to # of pages, copyright \ndate, etc. for clues.\n\n \"PostScript Language Reference Manual\", Adobe Sys. Inc., Addison-Wesley,\n copyr. 1986, printed 1990. 299 pages. $22.95.\n\n \"PostScript Language Tutorial and Cookbook\", as above, 243 pages, $16.95\n\nI'll sell the above two books as a set for $15 postage paid w/in US.\n\n \"OpenLook GUI Functional Specification\", Sun Micro, Addison-W, copyr. 1989,\n 564 pages, $34.95.\n\n \"OpenLook GUI Application Style Guidelines\", 388 pages, $24.95.\n\nI'll sell the above two books as a set for $15 ppd. w/in US. \n\n O'Reilly & Associates Definitive Guides to the X Window System, copyr. \n 1990, \"for version 11\", \"revised and updated for Release 4\":\n\n Vol. 0: \"X Protocol Reference Manual,\" 498 pages $30\n Vol. 1: \"Xlib Programming Manual,\" 672 pages $34.95\n Vol. 2: \"Xlib Reference Manual,\" 792 pages $34.95\n Vol. 7: \"XView Programming Manual,\" 640 pages $30\n\nI'll sell the above four books as a set for $35 ppd. w/in US\n\nDue to the high hassle/$ ratio I am asking for pre-payment by check. I'll \nbe queing cashing, packing, and shipping so be prepared to wait 3 weeks \nfor your books to show up. \n\nIf you'd like to pick them up, I live in San Francisco. Same prices though. \n\nE-mail me if you are interested. Thanks!", "\nWhat's the difference between the F550i and the new F550iW? I'm\nabout to buy a Gateway system and was going to take the F550i\nupgrade. Should I get the F550iW instead?\n", "thought I'd post this as well as e-mail it, just in case anyone else is\ninterested in this info.....\n\n\n\n\nI suggest that you go direct to the original (and preferred...best quality)\nsource for all of this, just as you would (at least, should) for the chips\nthemselves: National Semiconductor. you can reach them at 1-800-272-9959.\nthey no longer package the data sheets in a book, as they did when I got\nmine, but you can get them as individual sets of data sheets. you want, as\na minimum, the following:\n\n *) 2 sets of data sheets:\n *) NS16450/INS8250A/NS16C450/INS82C50A\n *) NS16550AF\n\n *) 2 application notes (yes, GET THESE!):\n *) AN-491 The NS16550A: UART Design and Application Considerations\n *) AN-493 A Comparison of the INS8250, NS16450 and NS16550AF Series\n of UARTs\n\nboth of the application notes I listed have proven to be AT LEAST as\nvaluable as the data sheets themselves (more, actually). AN-491, in\nparticular, is an exceptionally well-written application note that goes\ninto detail about how and why the 16550 does what it does, and how best\nto take advantage of it.\n\nbtw, they send these out free, as long as you don't abuse it.\n\nlater,\n --jim\n\n--\n#include 73 DE N5IAL (/4)\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nINTERNET: jim@n5ial.mythical.com | j.graham@ieee.org ICBM: 30.23N 86.32W\nAMATEUR RADIO: n5ial@w4zbb (Ft. Walton Beach, FL) AMTOR SELCAL: NIAL", "Has anyone written or seen a C library or C++ class for fixed-point math,\nor good articles about same?\n\nI pretty much know how to do this, but I have a few other wheels to invent\nat the moment...\n\nThanks!", "HI, I was wondering if anyone would be able to help me on twwo related\nsubjects. I am currently learning about AM/FM receivers and recieving\ncircuits. I understand a lot of things ,but a few things I am confused\nabuot. The first is the MIXER, to mix the RF and local oscillator\nfrequencies to make the IF. Does anyone have any cicruit diagrams (as\nsimple as possible) for this kind of mixer? I have come across a\nMC-SBL mixer chip But I have not been able to find it in any catalogs\n(ACTIVE,etc...) \n\nAlong the same note, are there any SIMPLE fm receiver circuits anyone\nmay have stashed away somewhere and they couold let me see?.\n\nP.S. any REALLY GOOD BOOKS on AM/FM theory ALONG WITH DETAILED\nELECTRICAL DIAGRAMS would help a lot.\nI have seen a lot of theory books with no circuits and a lot of\ncircuit books with no theory, but one without the other does not help.\n\n\t\t\t\tThanks,", ": A very kind soul has mailed me this reply for the bugs in CView.\n: Since he isn't in the position to post this himself, he asked me to post\n: it for him, but to leave his name out. So here it comes:\n: \n: CView has quite a number of bugs. The one you mention is perhaps the most\n:\nA stupid question, but what will CView run on and where can I get it? I\nam still in need of a GIF viewer for Linux. (Without X-Windows.)\nThanks!\n \n", "If you'd like to find a home for that beekeeping equipment you'll never use\nagain, here's a likely victim, uh, customer.\n\nTo make a deal, call:\n\n\t\tLaura Forbes (503)275-4483", "I posted this a while ago and didn't recieve one reply, and now we\nhave another bug report on the same subject. Can anybody help me out?\n\nHow can you ensure that accelerators work the same independent of\ncase? What I want is Ctrl+O and Ctrl+o to both be accelerators on one\nmenu entry.\n\nIn ORA Vol. 6, in the section on accelerators it says \"For information\non how to specify translation tables see Vol. 4...\", this is so you\nknow what to put for the XmNaccelerator resource. If you go to\nVol. 4 it says, \"Likewise, if a modifier is specified, there is\nnothing to prohibit other modifiers from being present as well. For\nexample, the translation:\n\n\tShiftq:\tquit()\n\nwill take effect even if the Ctrl key is held down at the same time as\nthe Shift key (and the q key).\n\nThis implies to me that setting XmNaccelerator to Ctrlo should do\nwhat I want, but it doesn't, it doesn't work if the user presses the\ncontrol key, the shift key, and the o key.\n\nIs it possible to supply > 1 accelerator for a menu entry? Keep in\nmind when answering this question that when using Motif you can't use\nXtInstallAccelerators().\n\nI am using Motif 1.1.3 on a DECstation 5000 but I have also tried it\non an HP using Motif 1.1.3 and 1.2.\n\n", "I posted about this a while ago but without code excerpts noone was \nable to help me.\n\nThe problem is that main_win.win is doing fine, but when I create \ndetail_win.win, it does not receive it's initial expose events until \nmain_win.win receives an event. Here are the relevent calls:\n\nmain_win.win = XCreateSimpleWindow (mydisplay, DefaultRootWindow(mydisplay),\n myhint.x, myhint.y, myhint.width, myhint.height,\n main_win.line_thick, fg, bg);\nXSetStandardProperties(mydisplay, main_win.win, main_win.text,\n main_win.text, None, argv, argc, &myhint);\nmain_win.gc = XCreateGC (mydisplay, main_win.win, 0, 0);\nXMapRaised (mydisplay, detail_win.win);\nXMapSubwindows (mydisplay, main_win.win);\nThe event mask for main_win is:\n\tPPosition | PSize | StructureNotifyMask | ExposureMask| KeyPressMask | \n\tEnterWindowMask | LeaveWindowMask;\nThe flags are\n\tPPosition | PSize\n\nI then create detail_win.win with the following calls (hints has new values):\ndetail_win.win = XCreateSimpleWindow (mydisplay, DefaultRootWindow(mydisplay),\n myhint.x, myhint.y, myhint.width, myhint.height,\n detail_win.line_thick, fg, bg);\nXSetStandardProperties(mydisplay, main_win.win, detail_win.text,\n detail_win.text, None, argv, argc, &myhint);\ndetail_win.gc = XCreateGC (mydisplay, detail_win.win, 0, 0);\nXMapRaised (mydisplay, detail_win.win);\nEvent Mask and flags are identical to main_win's flags and event mask.\n\n\nIf anybody has any idea why the initial expose events of detail_win.win \nare not received until main_win.win receives an event I'd love to hear \nfrom them. Other that that everything works great so there must be some \ndetail I'm overseeing.", "What files do I need to download for GhostScript 2.5.2? I have never used\nGhostScript before, so I don't have any files for it. What I *do* have is\ngs252win.zip, which I downloaded from Cica. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to\nwork on it's own, but needs some more files that I don't have. I want to run\nGhostScript both in Windows 3.1 and in MS-DOS on a 386 PC (I understand there's\nversions for both environments). What are all the files I need to download and\nwhere can I get them? Any info would be appeciated.\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n Steve W Brewer rewerB W evetS\n cl238405@ulkyvx.louisville.edu ude.ellivsiuol.xvyklu@504832lc", "G'Day\n\nWindows NT is a step forward, but not by much. I guess for DOS users who\nthink multi-tasking is really _neat_ (add puke here) and are overjoyed to \nbe able to use more than 64K of memory, its a major improvement. For Windows\nusers its more like an upgrade with facilities most Unix users take for \ngranted. Most of Windows users only use PCs for text processing or running \n3rd-party applications anyway so the operating system features are not even \na real issue. My ideal operating system:\n\n\tBinary compatible across all plaforms. It should recognize\n\tbinaries and configure on the fly, so I don't have to have\n\tbin/Mac bin/DOS bin/Dec bin/Sun bin/HP etc...\n\n\tMulti-CPU. So I can use the CPUs on my PC and W/S and Mac \n\tand Transputers and DSPs. I don't know a single site which \n\thas gone for a single vendor. I am not going to trade-in \n\t80Mflops per H1 transputer or ultra-fast FFT on DSP chips.\n\tNote NT runs on Symmetric multi-CPU systems.\n\n\tBuilt-in portable GUI/Graphics tools. You can call DrawButton \n\tor DrawLine and it does the same thing no matter what platform \n\tor display. It should also translate graphics commands on-the-fly.\n\tso I can use PC graphics S/W on my workstation and X software on \n \tmy PC. I think GUIs are not just nice to have but essential.\n\n\tConfigurable front-end. So you can make it look like Unix or DOS\n\tor NT or OS/2, and run shell scripts or command/BAT files.\n\n\tObject oriented. So I can program easily under it and not have\n\tto re-invent the wheel if the networking is not up to scratch\n\tor my application needs to access source/object code on the fly.\n\nIn other words it should have some AI capability. That and a tight, clean\nkernel so you can actually understand it. Anyone know of something like this ?\n\n\tadios\n\t Ata <(|)>.", "Hmmm.... CELP takes up about 12.6 MIPS for full duplex, and has been\nimplemented on about a million DSP chips... the 56001 card in my PC only cost\nabout $700, and I'm sure once demand goes up the prices would drop. The Analog\nDevices 21020 board that we're looking at now cost about $500 (academic price).\nI don't think hardware is something to worry about... if you get it working,\npeople will snap up internet phone cards like there was no tomorrow.\nWhat we need here is a good implementation of CELP (the government code is\nabsolute crap, I got a 30% speedup after looking at it for a couple of hours),\nand modifications to pgp to allow it to compress/decompress 144 bit frames\nevery 30msec... I think the AD21020 should have enough juice for this (50MIPS).\nAs part of the project I'm working on now, we're trying to get CELP up and\nrunning in realtime full duplex mode... I gotta find the source to pgp and\nsee how tough it would be to integrate the en/decryption parts into the code.\nI'll play with it. Anyone else out there got an AD21020 setup?\n\t- Ed\n_____________________________________________________________________________\n:-) ('') (-: (,,) :-) ('') (-: (,,) :-) | see lidflip instructions on\nEdward Hutchins, eah1@cec1.wustl.edu | other side of card\n", "Hey now. First of all, sorry to post this DOS question in a WINDOWS\ngroup, but I'm in kinda a hurry, so I can't scramble to find the dos\ngroups' names. \n\nAnyway, anyone know where I ccan find the exit codes to DOS commands?\nthe manual doesn't seem to have all of them. I'm particularly looking\nfor COPY, in order to make a \"move\" batch file, such that if the file\nwasn't coppied properly, it won't be deleted.\n\n\nplease e'mail louray@seas.gwu.edu\nThanks, I.A,\nMickey", "Hello!!!\n\nThe title just about says it all.\n\nI need a list of the bugs for Motif 1.2.", "\n\nDo you mean a prog. that doesn't jump to the DOS display and then back or \ncreate a temp. DOS window?\n\nIf yes then I might recommend WinZip from ftp.cica.indiana.edu. I'm afraid \nI don't have the file name or version but you should be able to find it.\n\nIt's fully compatible with ver. 2.04g and very functional.\n\nLater,\n\nPhil Trodwell ", "\nCOM files are limited to a total size of 64KB. Thus, win.cfn plus vgalogo.log \nplus your RLE file must be less than 64KB. Thus, your RLE file should be \naround 30KB.\n\nRob\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n____ ___ ____ / \\ Any resemblance between the above views and\n================== / .clarku.edu \\ want Clarkies to think about them.", "\n[story about dealing having problems w/C610's deleted]\n\n\nI've had my C610 for about six weeks now with no problems whatsoever.\nIt's been \"customized\" with---\n\n * replaced the Apple-Quantum 80 drive with a Connor 212 drive. \n\n * installed a Tandberg SCSI tape drive in the internal bay which works\n just fine (though Apple doesn't seem to be supplying front panel\n bezels w/ a standard 5.25\" cutout...). \n\nIt's hooked up to an Apple LaserWriter Plus and has no printing\nproblems at all, tested printing complex Photoshop graphics.\n\nIt has expanded VRAM and extra 8 meg SIMM, no problems.\n\nSo in sum, I have no idea what this dealer is complaining about.\n\n\t-Fred", "\n\nI don't know any way except to see what modifiers are on in th\nKeypress event. Of course if there is some reason why you need to\nalways know the state of modifiers even if your windows don't have the\nkeyborads focus you can always ask for KeyPress events from the root\nwindow. Then you get all the KeyPresses and you always know what have\nbeen pressed.\n\n\nI think this is just a question of how to implement XLookupString.\nYou can always write another function that interprets the KeyPresses\nas you like. You can look at the implementation of XLookupString from\nthe Xlib sources and then modify it a little bit.", "Hi!\n\nI remember reading (or hallucinating) that NCD's PC-Xremote functionality had \nbeen given, by NCD, to MIT for inclusion in X11R6. Is this true? If so,\n(set mode/cheap) can I just wait for X11R6 to get compressed serial line\nX server support?\n\nThanks!", "\nWell, I got WINZIP from cica (don't know which version, but I think\nit's the latest, as this is not long ago), and I was initially imressed.\nBut here's the low-down:\n\nWINZIP is a *great* progra, *as long as you only unzip*. It lets you\nvew files, unzip only selected files, and even puts the files in a\n/checkout directory, and creates a \"checkout\" .grp and group if you want\nto check the program out. It even prompts for deletion of these on\nexit, if you didn;t like the program.\n\n*HOWEVER* (big however over here). I have problems zipping. I don't\nkonw specifics on this, or ammount of consistency, but sometimes when I\n\"zip\" a few files, or add a file to a .zip, dos will violate something\nor other, and I'll be asked (in a kind, micro$oft kind of way) to quit\nall applications, quit windows, and restart my computer. I don't know\n(as I said) how consistent this is, as I jdont' zip much (and when I do,\nnow I just go to dos and use it from there, or just use the \"run\" cmd)\nbut I *do* know it's happened when I added files to an existing .zip\nfile, *and* when I created a new .zip file, using selected files only.\nI don't know if it's happened when I zip an entire dir.\n\nStill, it has a rather nice interface, and quite useful \"unzip\"ing\nfunctions. If the above is fixed, I'll be the first to register the new\nver. (as for now, a good old, \"run-->unzip *.zip\" will work.\n\n(PS> if a new ver *is* out that fixes these, please let me know).\n\npeace,\nMickey", "\nLook in xfig. It has two types of spline algorithms and is relatively simple.\nXfig is available from export.lcs.mit.edu in\n/contrib/R5fixes/xfig-patches/xfig.2.1.6.tar.Z\n", "Due to the resolution and size it is in 14 parts.\n\nThis is a uuencoded bitmap. 960X600 256 colors.\nThe picture is a marbled gazebo on a desert with blue sky background.\nThe size is just right for centered wallpaper on a 1024x768 display\nbecause it leaves a border at the bottom just big enough for icons\nto fit in without being on top of the picture. Reguarding image\nquality and resolution - I have not seen much better.\n\nFor those of you who haven't worked with pieced image files, here\nis how to put it back together.\n\t1. save the 14 parts to 14 individual files\n\t2. use a text editor to remove the header and footer\n\t in each file.\n\t3. concatinate all the parts into a single file\n\t4. uudecode the file\nThere are tools available to do this without the hassle such as\nuuconvert (UNIX) and UUcoder (Windows). If neccesary I could post\nthese tools or where to get them by FTP -- let me know.\n------------ Part 1 of 14 ------------\nbegin 644 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End of part 1 of 14 --------", "\tThe information in the packets isn't necessarily\ndistinctive -- you need to know that it is an X11 connection.\n\t-- Ethan\n", "I've got an old Super VGA card manufactured by SAMPO of Taiwan and I'm\nlooking for a Windows 3.1 Driver for it. It's based on the Cirrus Logic\nCL-GD510A-32PC-B chip. I've contacted the suppliers here in New Zealand\nand they say that only Windows 2 divers were ever written by the manufacturer.\nSo if there's a V3.1 driver out for this chip set I'd like to know - \npreferably by e-mail at rjwjames@waikato.ac.nz\n \nThanks is advance", "\n\n\nIt sounds like something/one may have set the 1000's separator to \".\" in\nContol Panel (under International). This makes 23,482 look like 23.482\nand File Manager is chopping off what it thinks is the decimal part of\nthe file size. 3,356,345 becomes 3.356.345, and again, File Manager is\nconfused by the decimal points where there should be commas, chopping\noff everything to the right of the first period.\n\n-- \nTony DeBari FQDN: tonyd@ssc60.sbwk.nj.us CI$: 73117,452\n UUCP: ...!uunet!ssc60!tonyd *P*: GHRW14B", "Readers,\n\nI own a Mac IIsi and am considering upgrades (cards, hard drive, etc).\nCan you tell me what the power limitations are for 1) the PDS slot\nand 2) the hard drive power feed. Secondly, Can you tell me if there\nis a separate limit for each, or if instead, there is a single limit\nfor both combined?\n\nPlease drop me a line if you know the answers to these questions.\nThanks,", "\nYea, thanks to lots of good information in this newsgroup, I was prepared\nfor lots of details (even shipping time ... got my C610 8/230/CD in 5 weeks).\nI guess my biggest disappointment is the lack of detail in the written\nspecs and documentation. The case load spec is an example -- the setup\nsection says Apple 14\" and 16\" monitors can go on top, but 21\" and other\nbig ones can't. Why couldn't they publish a maximum load?\n\nNow if I can figure out if there's any hope using the \"partition\" button\non the hard disk setup utility (do I dare just try it and see what happens?),\nthen maybe I can divide up the wealth among the family members a bit more\nsecurly. The \"getting more information\" section of the manual suggested\ntrying other avenues before calling Apple, but didn't mention the net.", "Whenever I exit Windows, I can't use control-alt DEL to reboot my \ncomputer, because the system hangs when I do this. I can still reboot \nusing the reset key, but I would like to know why this happens..\n\nEric", "\n\n\tDid I not hear that there maybe some ports of Real3D Version2\n \tin the pipeline somewhere, Possibly Unix. Not too sure though\n please put me straight.", "Wanted:\n\n\tDigidesgn Audiomedia Card for the Mac\n\tEmail if you have one for sale.\n\nThanks", "This model is one of the two low-cost laser printers that Apple just\nintroduced. I'm thinking of getting one to use at home. Have any of you\nhad any experience with this printer? Does it have Level-2 PostScript?\nIf you've bought one, are you happy with it?\n", "\nIt has also apparently been excised from the second edition.\n", "Hi\n\nI am trying to implement a pointer feature in Xlib\n\nI have multiple windows and all can take input and \nshow output simultaneously on all other displays\n\nI want to implement a pointer feature \n\nI would like to get the pointer to come up on all windows once \nI choose pointer in the menu and every one should be able\nto see it\n\nCan you give me some hints as to how I should proceed \nI am new to Xlib\n\n\n\nreplies will be greatly appreciated\n\nThank you", "\nI keep my 13\" apple trinitron and IIsi on for months at a time...doesn't\nseem to cause any problems.\n\n\n\n+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+\n\n /~~~~~~~\\\n\\_____ |\n | | TTTTTT EEEEE VV VV EEEEE |\n | | TT EE VV VV EE |\n /---/ | TT EEEE VV VV EEEE | Steve Liu |", "I would really like to get one of the new CD300i CDROM\ndrives for my c650, but my local Apple doesn't know \nwhen they will be available. He doesn't even have a part\nnumber yet. Does anyone know what the part number \nfor this drive is and when it will be available?\n\nMy Apple dealer suggested I buy one of the CD300 external\ndrives, but I don't want to pay extra for a case/power supply\nI'm not going to use.", "I'm attempting to transfer files from my home computer running\nWindows 3.1 Terminal to a workstation at school. The file transfer protocol\nat home is Kermit for binary files. I'm running Kermit on the workstation at school and\nsetting the file transfer protocol to binary. I am unable to upload files\nto school but can download files from school to home. During download,\nTerminal displays ther retrying message several times then the message '\nVerify you're using the correct protocol'. \n\tAnyone have any ideas on how to fix? Either e-mail or post to this\ngroup. \n\nThanks, in advance,", "\nThe Shannon limit for voice lines is likely somewhere around 25kbps.\nWe are rapidly approaching it. The fastest affordable full-duplex\nmodems currently on the market are V32bis, which is 14400bps.\n\n\nCELP manages to sound decent at 4800 bps.\n\nIn theory, if you built a speech recognition system that turned voice\ninto ASCII, and a perfect synthesis system on the other end that\nsounded just like the person you were speaking to, you could get it\ndown to the information content of the speech.\n\nWith various kinds of LPC, you can get it down to 2400 bps or prehaps\neven less, at which point it sounds horrible.\n\n4800 bps is more than adequite for our purposes.\n\n--\nPerry Metzger\t\tpmetzger@shearson.com", "I have a used Sony D-808K CarDiscman for sale. I bought it new on \nJune 16, 1992. It still has\n the one-year warranty intact. \nSpecifications:\nSony's best car discman\t\t\tperfect condition\n8X oversampling\t\t\t\t1-bit D/A converter\n3-beam laser pickup\t\t\tdual color display\nDSP sound processing (Bass Boost and DDS modes) w/ 3 levels of effect\n2-way repeat\t\t\t\thold mode\ncan also run on just 2 AA batteries\t30 track programming w/ repeat\nrandom play w/ delete\nfused cigarette lighter adapter (could save the player if something goes wrong\n\nAccesories:\nheadphone plug & line-out jack\t\tSony MDR-34 headphones\nAC power Adapter\t\t\tpatch cord for home use\nautomobile mouting plate \t\tcar conecting pack\nremote control(great for home use) \tcarrying case\nextra fuses\n\nThis unit is great to use in any car. Can be moved easily between vehicles.\nWorks well in home or car. Just need cigaraette lighter/outlet and a cassette\nplayer. \n I have everything that it came with manuals, packaging, receipts etc.\nThe unit is in perfect condition with normal well taken care of use. \nExtremely versatile and manuverable unit that can be used anywhere.\n I am asking $250 for the system and extras. Please e-mail if interested.", "\n\n Would you believe that there is a letter in MacWEEK this week from\none of the hardware types at Digital Eclipse. He says that they run\ntests on all of the components to see if they will perform at the\nupgraded speed. If they do not then DESI replaces them with ones that\ndo.", ": The real question here in my opinion is what Motorola processors running system\n: 7 on a MAC are comparable to what Intel processors running Windows on a PC? I\n[stuff deleted]\n: -David\n--\nEven better than that... how does a 68000-based Amiga 2000 perform in \ndaily tasks compared to my 68030-based IIci.\n\nAnswer, except in a very few cases, I get my butt kicked by the Amiga.\nSure there are other considerations, but it goes to show you how\nproper design from the beginning (in hardware and software) can give\nyou great returns. [as well as showing you that if you don't have a \nmarketing department to speak of, no one will care how good your system is]\n\nI'm still happy with my ci, but I don't understand why the performance is\nso bad (comparatively). They could have done multi-tasking _properly_.\nThey could have done everthing else better -- but apple didn't.\n(of course DOS 6 and windows 3.1 are nothin to write home about either!!)\n\nOh well, y'all got $2.00 worth for the price of $0.02\n\n~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=\n Peter Pundy\n\n Email: 2545500@jeff-lab.queensu.ca", "There has been quite a bit of discussion about house wiring and grounding\npractices here. A few points need to be clarified:\n\nThe Equipment GROUNDING conductor, Green, green with a yellow stripe, bare, or\nthe metal sheath or pipe of SOME wiring methods, is used as a safety ground, to\ncarry fault currents back to the circuit breaker panel, and to limit the\nvoltage on the metal case of utilization equipment or other metal objects. It\nshould never (except for a few exceptions to be discussed later) carry the\nnormal operating current of a connected load. Some equipment has filters in\nthe power supply which may cause some slight current flow through the grounding\nconductor. \n\nMuch communications or audio equipment is sensitive to noise or slight voltages\non the grounding conductor, and may require special wiring of the grounding\nconductors to provide reliable operation (\"orange\" outlets are often used for\nthis, with insulated grounding conductors wired back to the panel box, and in\nmany cases back to the service. Anyone installing such a system should read\nboth the section on grounding in the National Electric Code and publications on\ninstalling quiet isolated ground systems. The code requires the insulated\ngrounding conductors (green wires) to run with the current carrying conductors\nback to the panel box, and, if required, back all the way to the service\nentrance , where it is bonded to the service ground (water pipe or rod) Many\nof these systems are installed illegally or unsafely, where they do not provide\na safe ground or a quiet ground or either. \n\nThe GROUNDED conductor of a circuit, often called the NEUTRAL, which is\nreferred to in the code as the \"identified\" conductor and is supposed to be\nwhite or natural grey. This conductor is supposed to be connected to ground in\nmost electrical systems at a single point, generally at the service entrance\npanel. This connection is through the Main Bonding Jumper. (In many household\nservice panels, the main bonding jumper is actually a bonding screw which\nattaches the neutral busbar to the case of the panel) \n\nThe Grounded conductor (neutral) is generally a current carrying conductor. In\nthe case of a 120 volt circuit it is one of the two conductors completing the\ncircuit from the panel to the load device. \n\nSince the grounded conductor (neutral) is only connected to the grounding\nconductor (bare or green) at the service entrance, if the load is any distance\nfrom the service and draws any significant current, there will be a small but\nmeasurable voltage between the grounded and grounding conductors at the load,\nunder normal operating conditions. If you should (incorrectly) connect the\ngrounded (neutral) conductor to the grounding conductor at the load, some of\nthe neutral current will flow instead through the grounding conductor. Since\nthere will now be current flowing through the grounding conductor, it will also\nno longer be quite at ground potential at the load end. If the load equipment\nhas a metal case, which is connected to the grounding conductor through the \"U\"\nground plug, the metal case is now also no longer quite at ground potential. \nThe difference (under normal, non short-circuit conditions) may be only a few\ntenths of a volt, but it could also be a volt or two. This normally does not\npresent a shock hazard. \n\nHOWEVER, if you let the metal case of the grounded equipment come into contact\nwith an independently grounded object such as a water or gas pipe, a radiator,\na metal air conditioning duct or such, part of the neutral current will try to\nflow through this aalternate ground path. If the contact is not solid, you\nwill get a significant arc (a low voltage, but possibly moderate current arc)\nUnder the wrong conditions, this arcing could start a fire. It is possible in\nsome cases that the sneak ground current could also flow through a wire of\ninadequate size, causing it to overheat.\n\nWith the incorrect non single-point grounding of the neutral, if there is a\nshort circuit from hot to neutral, the high short circuit current which may\nflow will cause a much higher voltage on the grounding conductor, which\nincreases the possibility for shock or fire. \n\nAlso if you incorrectly multiply connect the neutral and ground, the voltage on\nthe ground system is seen as noise bu computer or audio equipment, often\ncausing malfunction. I have spent some hours tracking down such shorts in\ntechnical facilities where they were inducing severe hum into equipment.\n\nThe Neutral is usually bonded to the ground at the distribution transformer as\nwell as at the service entrance of each dwelling. This is done primarily for\nlightning protection, so that induced lightning currents have a short path back\nto ground, and also to assure that the currents drawn by shorts to grounded\nobjects like pipes draw enough current to trip circuit breakers or blow fuses\nquickly. The bad side of this is that not all the neutral current from the\ndwelling goes through the neutral wire back to the transformer. Some of it\nflows through the grounding electrode (water pipe, etc.) this may cause\ncorrosion in the pipes and possibly in things like underground fuel oil tanks,\nand it may also cause measurable AC magnetic fields due to the large loop\nbetween the \"hot\" conductors in the service and the neutral current in the\nwater pipe and ground. There are those who feel these fields may be unhealthy. \n(don't flame ME on this, I'm just telling you where the field comes from, not\nit's health effect, as far as I'm concerned, the jury is still out on this.)\n\nNote that the bonding jumper is only installed at the main panel, NOT at any\nsub distribution panels. This is one reason why it is illegal to run service\nentrance cable with the sheath used as a neutral to a sub panel, you must have\na seperate insulated conductor for the neutral. The sheath can be used in this\napplication only as the groundING conductor. If the neutral is bonded to the\ngrounding conductor in the sub panel, say by forgetting to remove the bonding\nscrew, all the grounding conductors of the loads on that panel will be above\nground, with the possible problems listed above.\n\nThe code makes exceptions for ranges and dryers, as well as feeds from one\nbuilding to another. In the cases of the range and dryer, the neutral may be\nused as the equipment ground under certain conditions, instead of a seperate\nwire. Every time the code is revised, these exceptions come up for review. \nThese exceptions were, in fact the first required safety grounds, in the days\nbefore U ground outlets and such. The appliance manufacturers don't want to\nhave to redesign their ranges and driers, and the contractors don't want to\nhave to run four wire cable (with four fairly heavy, expensive wires) in place\nof three wire to the appliances. No question it would be safer with seperate\nneutrals to the stove, but the neutral current is low for most burner settings\n(since most current is in the 220 volt \"hots\" except at some low settings, the\nwires are large gauge, and there are few reported cases of injury or damage. \nSo far, the exceptions have survived. In the case of feeds between buildings,\nit's primarily for lightning protection.\n\nPeople doing wiring should be aware what is and what isn't a legal grounding\nconductor. Obviously, the bare wire in \"romex\" 'with ground' is. Anywhere\nthere is a green wire installed, such as in a portable cord, that is a good\ngrounding conductor. The sheath of BX clamped in BX connectors in metal boxes\nis a legal grounding conductor (in the US). (BX has an aluminum band run under\nthe steel sheath to lower the resistance of the sheath. You can just cut this\naluminum band off at the ends, you don't have to bond it to anything, it does\nits job by touching every turn of the BX sheath.) Conduit or EMT (thinwall\ntubing) is generally a legal grounding conductor, but may require a bonding\nlocknut where it enters a box or panel, particularly for larger pipes. \n\n\"Greenfield\" (looks like big BX, but you pull your own wires in the empty\nsheath after you run it) is NOT a legal grounding conductor, as it doesn't have\nthe aluminum band to bond it, and the spiral steel has too much resistance and\ninductance. You have to run a seperate green grounding conductor inside the\ngreenfield.\n\n\"Wiremold\" is also not a legal grounding conductor, as the paint on the boxes\noften prevents good contact, and the \"feed\" to the wiremold extension is often\nfrom a box in the wall that may not be well connected to the first wiremold\nbox. I have personally discovered cases where the entire run of wiremold and\nthe cases of everything plugged into all the outlets on the run were \"hot\" with\n120 volts (Why do I get a shock every time I touch my computer and the radiator\nhere in the office?) because there was no ground wire in the wiremold and one\nof the outlets had shorted to the edge of the wiremold box. You must run a\nground wire back in the wiremold from the outlets at least to the first box in\nthe original wiring (conduit, BX, etc.) where you can \"bond\" the wire to the\nbox with a screw, bnding clip, or whatever.\n\nOn another issue, while you should ground the green wire/lug on GCFI outlets\nwhen ever there is a place to ground them, it is legal in the NEC to use them\nwithout a ground if no ground is available. It is better to have the\nprotection of the Ground fault interrupter than no protection if you don't\ninstall it. The interrupter doesn't depend on the ground to trip. It is\ndesirable to connect the ground if available, because if the ground is\nconnected, the interrupter will trip as soon as a faulty device is plugged in,\nwhereas without the ground, it will not trip until someone or something\nprovides a ground path. For those questioning the legal use of ungrounded\nGCFI's, read in the NEC, 210-7 (d) exception. (This is the 1990 code, my '93\ncode is in the city, but I know the rule hasn't changed. It might be\nrenumbered though.) \n\nWe have only touched the surface concerning grounding ;-} , there is much more\nto this subject, but most of you have fallen asleep by now. \n\nJohn", "Though I downloaded some of the posted bitmaps myself, the original\nposter is quite right...\nAs an alternative, try posting them at comp.binaries.ms-windows, and\njust letting us know. A good idea is to post the article number here.\n\npeace,\nMicke", "We're looking at various X11 clients for PC's and we're looking for some\ninformation about the relative efficiency of different products. Are any\nnotably efficient (fast)? Are any notably inefficient? I assume that a\nGraphics Accelerator makes them significantly faster (right now I'm looking\nat ico running on Xoftware/32 for Windows sitting on the Distinct TCP/IP\nplatform, and it's (not surprisingly) much slower than ico running on the\nSparc10's console. What are the key ways of improving performance for\nPC (presumably Windows) clients?\n\nAlso, what about async solutions? (Yes, I appreciate that it will be \n*much* slower even with V.42bis.) I'm in the process of installing PPP\n(with header compression). How does that compare to cslip? I've seen\na product called XRemote by NCD that promises to be pretty efficient, but\nare there comparable products out there? If we're looking for efficiency\nfor async, PC clients, what should we be looking at in addition to standard\nPPP w/ compression and XRemote?\n\nAny information would be greatly appreciated. I'm still taking in all\nthe information in the faq, but any tips about the relative efficiency\nof various product offerings would be great. (I get the impression\nthat discussions about speed are largely application specific, but\nthat not withstanding, any comments would be appreciated.) Thanks.\n\n-- Rob", "\n\n\nI tried this code yesterday. On my Sparcstation ELC it takes over\n300 seconds to compress 22 seconds' worth of speech. This means that it\nneeds to be \"optimized\" by over a factor of 10 before it will be usable\nin even a half-duplex mode.\n\nI question whether CELP is the best approach for this application. It produces\ngreat compression but at the expense of tremendous CPU loads. We want\nsomething that can be run on ordinary workstations or even high-end PC's\nwithout DSP cards. My guess is that some other algorithm is going to be\na better starting point.", "Well, I've now been working on this DAMNED stepper controller board\n since 9pm. It's now 6am... I'm pissed off. Period. Alright, I can\n drive the steppers through the 3479P's; no problem (that's with the\n 6-wire steppers, 2 to +, and the other 4 are the phase lines). Problem\n 1: I've got some 4 wire steppers. I put the darkest line to + and the\n other 3 to the 3479P... worked, kinda. Tried it with a printer stepper\n (moves the head back and forth, 4 wires), didn't work too well. It \nwould\n shift back and forth (use something like a 4017 instead?) Also I've \nbeen\n trying to get a bunch of NPN's to work with it... NO LUCK... tried \nPNP's,\n still NO LUCK!!! I don't know if I'm cursed on this or what, but I feel\n my brain slowly frying with the thought of STEPPER ... ARGGG!!!\n I don't know what's wrong with the transistor hook-up (to-220 \npkg\n type), also tryed the 2n2222-pkg type... no luck.\n\n I'm going to try getting some z's, and I hope \nyou\n can help me with this problem.\n If someone can please help me with this soon, it would be greatly\n appreciated...\n\n Thanks.\n\n\n\n\n \n _________________________________________________\n Inspiration | ___ |\n comes to | \\ o baden@sys6626.bison.mb.ca |\n those who | ( ^ ) baden@inqmind.bison.mb.ca |\n seek the | /-\\ =] Baden de Bari [= |\n unknown. | |\n ------------------------------------------------- ", "\nI've got 7 episodes left on *Beta* for Sale at US$8 each (neg.), or\nfor Trade 1-for-1 for movie on Beta or a used CD; or, a package deal\nfor $50 or whatever you care to propose in trade -- e.g., all for a\nset of good stereo headphones (e.g. Sony V6 or V7), an Apple IWII\nsheet feeder, a good used FM/Cassette stereo \"walkman\" or a hotel\ncoupon(s) for free stays FOB New York City (guests coming!)). The\nremaining collection is as follows:\n\n 8 - Charlie X\n 11 - Dagger of the Mind\n 12 - Miri\n 17 - Shore Leave\n 20 - The Alternative Factor\n 29 - Operation-Annihilate!\n 33 - Who Mourns for Adonais?\n\nNumbers indicate episode numbering on the tape boxes, for those who\nare keeping track of what episodes they're missing in that manner.\n\nRSVP for summaries, if necessary.\n\nThe tapes are all in excellent condition in the original packaging.\nAll have been played at least once, but most have been played ONLY\nonce, and NONE have been played more than twice. Running time: ~50\nmin. ea. (Unedited, uncut store-bought originals unlike those in\nsyndication; all have *incredible* Beta HiFi sound!)\n\nI also have the following SF and Horror movies on Beta as well; US$10\n(negotiable) or Trade (1-for-1 swap for movie on Beta or a used CD):\n\n The Bride (Sting, Jennifer Beales)\n* Buck Rogers Conquers the Universe (Buster Crabbe, Constance Moore)\n\nRSVP for my larger Beta movies/music trade list, or find it on Misc.forsale!\n\ngld\n\nPS: For those of you who may wonder, Beta is alive as a pro/hobbyist\nformat ... there's life beyond the corner video store! (-;", "\n\nI have tried others, but I think that the Adaptec is best value for money.\n\n\n\n\nI dont think you can mix the two types of drive, unless you have one of the\nSCSI/IDE cards that is available. You will have to turn your IDE off.\n\n\n\n\nInstructions for drive type are included with the controller. With some it may be\na type 1. no matter what the disk is. With others it may be a type 47. I had one\ncontroller that I had to tell the BIOS that no hard disk was installed.\n\n \n\n\nDo not low level format a SCSI unless you have the SCSI low level format program. \nFirst use fdisk to set the partitions, then use format.\n\n", "Does anyone have any experience or is familiar with the Cardinal P9000\nVL-Bus graphics card? Would appreciate knowing what you think of its\ncapabilities. Thanks.", "Is there a QIC-80 format tape drive that comes\nwith an EISA controller ?\nColorado's 250 only has ISA and MCA controllers.\n\nThanks. e-mail please.\n\n-- ", "Do you happen to know how I can get a serial mouse (9 pins) working on\nan IBM L40 notebook (which has a kind of bus mouse connection besides serial\nand parallel interfaces). The manual doesn't say anything about it.\n\nI've tried two drivers, with the result that left and right buttons are\nrecognized, but mouse movement is not. Should I cut or shortcut some\nwires to/from the mouse?\n\nThanks for your help.", "Small Comic Collection For Sale.\n\nAll issues are NM unless otherwise noted. Prices are flexible for large\npurchases. Buyer pays shipping.\n\nNM+ means the comic was ordered and bagged with backing upon arrival, and has\n*never* been read or opened. Numbers in parenthesis represent the number of\nmultiple copies.\n\n60% Graded Price\n----------------\n\nFantasy Masterpieces (Silver Surfer, second series)\n\t#8 NM-\nFirestorm (original series)\n\t#1 F\n\t 2-5 F\nThe Fury of Firestorm (second series)\n\t#3,6\nHuman Fly\n\t#1 VF\nHuman Torch\n\t#1 VF-\nIndiana Jones\n\t#2 NM+\nKazar\n\t#19-21\nLegion of Super Heroes\n\t#293 VF\nMachine Man\n\t#8,9 G\t\t(2001: A Space Oddessy, origin of)\n\t 1 F\n\t 6 F\nMicronauts\n\t#1 VF\n\t 19,20,46,47\nNew Gods\n\t#1 F\n\t 19 F\nOutsiders\n\t#3,4 NM+\nRagman\n\t#5 F\nRom\n\t#1 VF\n\t 4 VF\nSecret Origins (Blue Beetle)\n\t#2\nSecret Wars II\n\t#2-5 VF\n\t 6 (2) NM+\n\t 8\n\t 9 (2)\nShade, The Changing Man (original series)\n\t#1 VG\n\t 2,5 VG\nThing\n\t#26-30 VF\nThor \n\t#361 VF\nThe Mighty Thor\n\t#13 (dbl iss)\n\n\n75% Graded Price\n----------------\n\nAmbush Bug Stocking Stuffer\n\t#1\nAvengers\n\t#259-262\n\t 263\n\t 264-267\nBatman & The Outsiders\n\t#29,30\nBeauty & The Beast (4-issues)\n\t#1-2 NM-\nCloak & Dagger\n\t#1 VF+/NM-\n\t 2-5\nDaredevil\n\t#192(5), 193 NM+\n\t 221-225 NM+\nDeadman (Haney & Adams)\n\t#7\nDeadman (Helfer & Lopez, 4-issue limited series)\n\t#1\nDoctor Strange\n\t#74\nFantastic Four\n\t#281-284 VF\n\t 286 VF\n\t 287-290 VF\nFirestar (4-iss)\n\t#1(2) NM+\nHercules (4-iss)\n\t#1(2), 2, 3 (2)\n\t 4 VF (date stamp)\nIron Man\n\t#98,102 F\n\t 126,127 VF\n\t 197-199\n\t 200 NM+ (dbl iss)\n\t 202\n\t 203 (2)\n\t 204,205\nLaser Eraser and Pressbutton (Eclipse)\n\t#1 (2)\nMarvel Fanfare (Epic)\n\t#7\nMarvel Universe\n\t#2 NM+\n\t 4,5 NM+\nMoonshadow (Epic, 12-issues)\n\t#6,7\nNightcrawler (4-iss)\n\t#1(2)\n\t 2,3\nSquadron Supreme (12-iss)\n\t#1 VF\n\t 2,3,4,6,7\nVision & The Scarlet Witch (4-iss)\n\t#1 (4) NM+\nVision & The Scarlet Witch (12-iss)\n\t#1 NM-\n\t 2-5\nX-Men & Alpha Flight (2-iss)\n\t#1\n\n\n85% Graded Price\n----------------\n\nAlien Legion (Epic, 12-issues)\n\t#10\nAlpha Flight\n\t#1 NM-\n\t 2\n\t 3,10\n\t 19,22-24\n\t 25-26 (2)\n\t 27,28\n\t 29-30\n\t 31 (2)\n\t 32\nCrisis on Infinite Earths\n\t#5-6\n\t 7\n\t 8\n\t 9-10(2),11\n\t 12(2)\nDaredevil (Miller written and drawn)\n\t#187,188,189(2) NM+\nElfquest (Warp, third printing)\n\t#1 NM-\nHulk (both Byrne)\n\t#314 (2)\n\t 318\nMarc Spector: Moon Knight\n\t#1\n\t 3 (4)\n\t 4 (3)\n\t 5-6 (2)\nNew Mutants\n\t#22-30\n\t31-37,40,54,55\nX-Factor\n\t#2 (2)\nX-Men\n\t#138\n\t 163 VF\n\t 167\n\t 168 (2)\n\t 196,199\n\n\nSerious inquiries only\n----------------------\n\nAlpha Flight\n\t#17\t\tX-Men crossover\n\t 33\t\tWolverine appearance\nDaredevil\n\t#226 NM+\tMiller plot\n\t 227 NM+\tMiller script starts\n\t 228 NM+\tMiller\nTeenage Mutant Ninja Turtles\n\t#1 (3) NM+ (second printing, comic size)\n\t 4 (7) NM+ (first printing, magazine size)\n\t 5 (4) NM+ (first printing, comic size)\n\tMichelangelo #1 (9) NM+ (original printing)\n\tFugitoid #1 (3) NM+ (original printing)\n\tRaphael #1 NM+ (original printing)\nX-Factor\n\t#1 (5) NM+\nX-Men & The New Teen Titans (Marvel/D.C. crossover, w/Darkseid)\n\t#1 NM-", "I am using DOS Quick C 2.5 in a DOS window under Windows 3.1, and the other\nday while I was running the compiler, I got a general protection fault\nimmediately followed by a \"serious disk error\". When I rebooted, I found\nthat about 15 files had gotten \"cross-linked\" which is a pretty serious\ncorruption of the hard drive file system.\n\nI am concerned that Quick C in a DOS window has somehow strayed outside\nits protected mode world and corrupted the smartdrv.exe disk cache and\nthat is what caused the disk problem.\n\nI thought that DOS programs run in DOS windows were pretty well-contained \nby Windows. If that is true, then maybe the Quick C compiler has nothing \nto do with it. Has anybody else had this type of problem?\n\n(I only recently \"upgraded\" from Quick C 2.0 to 2.5.)\n\nBrad Banko\n ", "\nAnd they're more like 1024x1024x8 charging & discharging capacitors in a DRAM\nSIMM =-)", "One can only remap special-command keys in procomm it seems. I\nwould like to remap other keys too - especially \"altgr 2\", and\nsuch combinations.\n\nAnybody know a plain OR dirty way to do this?? (of cause most\npeople settle for remapping function keys, but I don't see\nwhy there should be a limitation...)", "We have been using Iterated Systems compression board to compress \npathology images and are getting ratios of 40:1 to 70:1 without too\nmuch loss in quality. It is taking about 4 mins per image to compress,\non a 25Mhz 486 but decompression is almost real time on a 386 in software \nalone.\n", "FOR SALE:\n\n*** COMPLETE PACKAGE ONLY ***\n\n(1) COMMODORE C64 COMPUTER LIKE NEW IN THE BOX WITH POWER SUPPLY\n AND OWNERS MANUALS \n(2) COMMODORE 1541C DISK DRIVE LIKE NEW IN THE BOX - AND OWNERS\n MANUAL\n(3) COMMODORE 1702 COLOR MONITOR LIKE NEW AND OWNERS MANUAL \n(4) PANASONIC KXP-1091 DOT MATRIX PRINTER LIKE NEW AND OWNERS\n MANUAL\n(5) PRINTER INTERFACE FOR PANASONIC PRINTER\n(6) FASTLOAD CARTRIDGE\n(7) HUGE STACK OF BOOKS ON C-64/1541 PROGRAMMING\n\n\nMAKE A REASONABLE OFFER AND I'LL THROW IN 300+ DISKS OF SOFTWARE...\n\nPlease reply in e-mail.\n", "Excerpts from netnews.comp.windows.x: 23-Apr-93 X Toolkits Paul\nPrescod@undergrad.m (1132)\n\n\nThe Andrew User Interface System is supported, maintained, enhanced, and\ndistributed by the Andrew Consortium, Carnegie Mellon. The distribution\nterms are those of the X consortium, not the GNU Public License. Thus\nanyone can commercially exploit the Andrew code without restriction. \n(To encourage membership, however, we defer universal release of the\nlatest versions until Consortium members have had an opportunity to\nexplore the new capabilities.)\n\nTo se what AUIS looks like, you can try a remote demo. You need an X\nserver (R5 is best) on a machine linked to the internet. Give the\ncommand \n\n\tfinger help@atk.itc.cmu.edu \n\nfor instructions.\n\nNOTE: The demo version does not use the Motif-look-and-feel scrollbar,\nbut one is available. You can use it on the demo by changing an option\nin the ~/preferences file and starting a new editor.\n\nThe Andrew Toolkit component of AUIS is ideal if you want to build\napplications using compound documents. Andrew's major feature is its\narchitecture for recursive embedding of objects: equation in table in\nfigure in text, for example. This architecture extends to areas not\nusually found in toolkits, including file stream formats, cut/paste, and\nprinting.\n\nAndrew also provides some of the most commonly requested applications: \nword processor, spreadsheet, drawing editor, and font editor (the latter\ntwo are in version 5.2 which will be generally released on the XR6 tape\nin December.)", "Wanted restaurant equipment for starting a new restaurant\n\n1) 4-6 Burner Stove\n2) Hot Plate\n3) Fryer\n4) Stainless Steel tables, Shelves etc\n5) Pots n Pans\n\nand a number of other items\n\nIf interested, pl. email\n\nShailesh\n", "*** 10 MONTH OLD POLK SYSTEM FOR SALE ***\n\nExcellent condition 10 month old (proof available) Polk Monitor 4.6 bookshelf\nspeakers are being offered for sale. The are excellent, and sound great. I am\ngoing for a higher model. So I need to sell these speakers. I paid $250 for\nthe pair of bookshelf speakers. I am willing to consider the best offer. \nSend me your offers. E-mail: suraj@cs.jhu.edu.\n\nAlso have excellent condition Luxman receiver R-351 and Onkyo tape deck\nTA-RW404 for sale. Both are in excellent condition and just 10 months old.\nMakes an excellent system. Paid $950 for receiver, tape deck and speakers\n10 months back, will consider the best offer. Each piece will be sold \nseperately if wanted. E-mail best offer to suraj@cs.jhu.edu", "\n\n\n\nI have the same problem. Someone suggested it might be a BIOS bug.\nGonna check with my supplier tomorrow. I'll tell you if it helps.", ": It seems silly, but while I've located things like tgif that can edit\n: gif files, and various tools to convert to/from gif format, I haven't\n: been able to locate a program that just opens a window and displays a\n: gif file in it. I've looked thru various faq files, also to no avail.\n: Is there one lurking about in some archive? Nothing sophisticated;\n: just \"show the pretty picture\"?", "I've recently picked up some TIL311 display chips, but I can't find\nany information on them. It seems they are no longer made by TI, and\nI don't have an old enough data book. :-(\n\nIt appears to have a dot-matrix led display capable of showing one hex\ndigit. It is in a 14 pin DIP package, but pins 6, 9, and 11 are not\npresent.\n\nIf you have any information on this part (pinout, power requirments,\nfunctions, ...) please send me e-mail.\n\nThank You,\n", "FOR SALE: Pen-based electronic organizer --\nBrand-new Sharp Wizard OZ-9600 (with PC link software and cable) \n\n -15 ounces, measures 7\"x4\"x1\" (fits in most pockets)\n -256k RAM, 125k available to user\n -pen/touch-screen input for pointing and drawing\n -keyboard big enough to touch-type on\n -320x240 screen\n -windows/pop-up menus\n -excellent scheduler with alarms\n -3 telephone directories\n -3 user-configurable databases\n -full word-processor with formatting\n -drawing utility\n -outliner\n -to-do list\n -calculator\n -clock/calendar\n -terminal emulatorw/ dialing directory\n -directory/filing system\n -serial port/infrared port/IC card slot\n -uses 4 AAA batteries (about 3 months of daily use)\n -All manuals\n\nOrganizer Link II\n -software and cable for exchanging data between Wizard and a PC\n\n $480 or best offer for both. I'll pay shipping.\n\n\n\t\t\t\tSteven M Friedman\n\t\t\t\tHorizon Institute for Policy Solutions", "What has this got to do with comp.windows.x?", "I have a small program to extract a 640x480 image from a vga 16 color screen,\nand store that image in a TIFF file. I need to insert the image into a\nsales brochure, which I then need printed in 4 color. On a mac, I would\nuse Photoshop to separate the image into 5 EPS files, and then pull it into\nquark express, then get it printed to film on a lintronix at a service bureau.\n\nHowever, I don't have a mac, but I do have windows. What would I need to \ndo this type of operation in the windows 3.1 environment? Are there any\nseparation programs available on the net? Is there a good page layout program\nthat I should look into?\n\nThanks in advance.\n\n", "Hello,\n\ndoes somebody know the functions XtShellStrings and XtStrings?\nI haven't found them in any librarys not Xm, Xt, nor X11, and I need\nthem to install a tool.\n\nAny hints greatly appreciated! Please reply via e-mail.\n\nThanks in advance!\n_______________________________________________________________________________", "For Sale ---\n\n U.S.Robotics 16.8k HST external modem, including power adapter,\n Users Guide and Quick-Reference Card.\n\n $515.00.\n\n Call me voice at (513) 831-0162 -- let's talk about it.\n\n Herb...", "\nI have the same problem. I have looked at Motif++, WWL, InterViews, GINA++,\nand a few variations on the above. I've also done a cursory examination\nof Rogue Wave's View.h++. I like View.h++'s abstractions best of all of the\ntoolkits I mentioned, but the resulting code looks little like Motif, and I\nhave little confidence that this software will catch on or otherwise result\nin significant longevity for my code. GINA++ allows you to write code which\nlooks a great deal like Motif and also makes interesting use of inheritance,\nbut the resulting code is almost too Motif-like, and is certainly not\nsignificantly less verbose than equivalent C code. InterViews looks\npromising, but I haven't found a free version with Motif support, and I'm\nnot confident how widely InterViews with Motif support will be adopted,\nand what (if any) specific Motif support will be available over time. The\nother libraries produce code which is less Motif-like, but which does not make\nsufficient use of the features of C++ to simplify my coding task.\n\nAt this point, my inclination is to write my Motif manipulation routines in\nC, and invoke those routines from my C++ code using simple abstractions suited\nto my specific task. Later, if OSF or some credible standards-setting body\ncomes up with a C++ interface to Motif, I will change to that. It does me\nno goo to write in C++ if my choice of interfaces leaves me with code which\nleaves me tied to an abstraction which is not consistent with the industry\ndirections. It's better to take a standard if inferior solution for now\nthan to go with a slgihtly superior approach which will leave me with both\nuseless code and useless skills a few years from now. Views.h++ is the only\nlibrary I'd consider right now, but in our environment, we'd end up spending\nnearly $5000 to use it, and I can't justify it when it's likely to cause\nshort-term productivity decreases as we learn the new abstraction, and is\nunlikely to be a sufficiently long-lived solution for us to reap the benefits\nat the high end of the J curve.\n\n- Brad", "Hi All\n\nI have a Korg DVP-1 for sale for $300.00 + shipping. For those who've not\nhad the pleasure:\n\nIt is a MIDI controlled (no keyboard of it's own) rackmountable digital voice\nprocessor. What can it do with your voice? It can pitch-shift it (change the\nnotes you sing). It can add harmonies to your singing (up to 5 parts at one\ntime). It can change your voice into a synthesizer's voice but leave what\nyou say alone and intelligible. This works well for a \"computerized\" sounding\nsinger, or robot voice. For those of you who just thought about that, yes -\nyou can do the voices from Robo-Cop, and the old ELO lead-ins with it, and yes -\nI'm a little red-faced to say that I tried those specifically. For an input,\nit takes both: XLR (3-prong mic) and 1/4\" cables. For output, you can have\na combination of the original-input-only, and your choice of mix between the\noriginal signal and the effect (can be effect only if desired). It has preset\nsetups, which you can edit and save for your own preferences. It has a couple\nof light scratches, but does not look bad, and works flawlessly. Even when we\ndon't use it in my music, it's been good for after-hours fun in the studio.\nThe manual is included. I never got around to getting rack-ears for it, but\nit has only gotten studio use from me - no roading, so it's not beaten.", "Got a few things I want to get rid of...\n\n Paradise EGA480/Casper EGA Monitor\n\n 1 12 MHz '286 motherboard (DRAM/SIPP)\n 1 16 MHz '286 momboard (DRAM only)\n\n 1 Hayes \"Prodigy special\" 2400b external modem\n\n 1 1Meg SIPP\n 1 256K SIPP\n\n about 2 Megs DRAM (I believe there's 1M of 120ns, and one of 100 or\n 80ns, but not absolutely sure).\n\n Also have an XT with 640K, serial board, Hercules board and amber\n monitor. The only thing this system is missing is the power supply.\n\n\n Make an offer on any/all of this stuff, and thanx for contributing\n to Mitch's V.32bis modem fund.\n\n\n Mitch\n\n\nNOTE: Cross-posted to several forsale froups; followups redirected back to me!\n\t\tThere's a reason for that - I don't read these groups.", "\nI had the same problem with my 512 a long time ago. Resoldering\nthe joints on the motherboard (all of them) fixed it. Turns out\nthat continuous heating and cooling caused annular (ring-shaped)\ncracks to develop in the solder, effectively cutting the video\ncircuitry off. If you're not a solder-jockey you might want to\nhave someone else do it -- I took mine to an electrical engineer\nbuddy -- but it was a 20-minute job, tops.\n\n-Kelley-\n-- \n-----------------------------------------------------------------\nThomas Kelley Boylan, PowerPC, IBM Austin, kelleyb@austin.ibm.com", "I have a mac LCII 4/80 purchased last august.\nJust the cpu and mouse... no monitor or keyboard.\n$800 OBO\n", "I'm looking for a good terminal program that will connect to\nTCP/IP using windows. Some basic MS-Window that is connect to\na unix host would be great.\n\nAny suggestions?\n\nThanks.", "HI!\nI need a codabar font for win. TT or other.\nThanks! \n", "\n\n\n\n\nWhat I like about GUI's:\n\n\t- The ability to view and manipulate a group of objects, files,\n\t text, directories, etc. and and manipulate them in some way\n\t such as delete, copy, paste, rename ...\n\n\t- The ability to have several applications / screens visible\n\t and accessable at the same time.\n\n\t- Being able to do a standard set of functions easily and\n\t quickly on an unfamiliar operating system. I am familiar with\n\t the command lines of several operating systems but occasionally\n\t I will have to some work on a system that I almost never use.\n\t If it has a GUI, I can usually accomplish what I want to do\n\t fairly easily, the command line on the other hand often is\n\t a long and painful experience.\n\n\nWhat I hate about GUI's:\n\n\t- Having to switch between the mouse and the keyboard. I guess\n\t I have a strong one-handed preference. I like to use a\n\t computer with one hand and use the other for holding something\n\t like a piece of paper of a mug of tea. I have configured my\n\t favorite editor so that most of the editing functions can be\n\t done with one hand such as navigating, cutting, pasting,\n\t searching, opening and saving files, etc. The main thing I\n\t need to use both hands for is entering text.\n\n\tI guess I need to get one of those mice with, like, 20 buttons\n\tor something and then I will have the best of both worlds.", "Anyone who thinks that TIFF is too complex hasn't dealt with\n\tCGM, ASN.1, CDA, DCA, SGML, or any one of a number of other\n\tvery successful file format. People seem perfectly capable\n\tdealing with these others. Dealing with the format of TIFF\n\tis frankly less difficult than dealing with the DCT, LZW, and\n\tFAX encoding of the image data. The majority of the libraries\n\twhich deal with TIFF are dedicated to these other issues rather\n\tthan with simply decoding the tags and parameters.\n\n\tPerhaps people are overwhelmed in comparison with some rather\n\tsimpleminded formats such as GIF, PCX, and BMP, but to suggest\n\tthat TIFF is so complex as to be doomed to failure is ludicrous.\n\n\tThat doesn't mean that GIF isn't fine, but don't even thing about\n\tusing it in many instances. GIF is very nice for use in low-end\n\tphotos applications and for screen grabs and such, but it would\n\tnever do for high-volume or high-resolution systems. FAX is nice,\n\tbut it doesn't do color (and GIF doesn't do B&W all that well).\n\tJPEG is nice for high-resolution color, but is slow for low-end.\n\n\tThe advantage TIFF brings to the table is its ability to handle\n\tall these situations (and then some). Naturally it's more complex.\n\tBut I'ld rather propose TIFF imaging solutions over imaging\n\tsystems based on having to deal with 3-4 file formats anyday.\n\n\tYou may find that TIFF is too complicated for your personal tastes\n\tbut please don't wrail against it's complexity. The complexity\n\tit contains is required to provide the functionality it does and\n\tdoesn't come close to the complexity found in most commercially\n\tviable file formats.\n", "I've used on-chip capacitors to reduce ground-bounce noise on a small\nsystolic array chip that had 50pF loads on the clock lines.\n(Design was in 2-micron n-well cmos, using the MOSIS scalable design rules.)\nHere are some thoughts on the bypass capacitors:\n\n1) They don't help much with simultaneous output switching--there is\n\tstill a large inductance between the bypass capacitor and the\n\tload capacitor (on both the signal line and the ground\n\treturn), so you still get ground and power line bounce. \n\n2) They do help a lot with on-chip loads, as I had with the high load\n\ton the clock lines. \n\n3) The transients you are trying to suppress are really high\n\tfrequency, so forget about large areas of poly-thin-oxide-diff\n\tcapacitors, since the RC time constant is too large.\n\tWhat I did is to make a metal2, metal, poly, diff sandwich,\n\tbut put a lot of holes in the poly layer, allowing frequent\n\tdiff-metal1 contacts. I forget exactly how wide the poly\n\tlines were. If I were doing this design again, I'd probably\n\tomit the diff altogether, and use a solid poly sheet instead,\n\tusing just m2, m1, and poly (and substrate, but that has such a high\n\tresistance it can be ignored at these speeds).\n\n4) You are probably better off trying to tune your circuit to run with\n\tslightly slower edges and lower voltage swings (especially for\n\toutput signalling), than spending chip area on capacitors.\n\tI had spare space on the die since the circuit was too big for\n\ta MOSIS tiny chip, and the next size up was twice as big as I\n\tneeded. \n\nKevin Karplus\n-- \nKevin Karplus\t\tkarplus@ce.ucsc.edu", "Hi,\n\twould someone please email the new AVI file\n\tformat. I'm sure that many people would \nlike to know what it is exactly.\n\nThank you\n\n\nMark Gregory Lecturer m.gregory@rmit.edu.au PH(03)6603243 FAX(03)6621060\nRoyal Melbourne Institute of Technology,\nDepartment of Communication and Electronic Engineering,\nP.O. Box 2476V, Melbourne, Victoria, 3001. AUSTRALIA.", "\n\n\n\nThe control box of the Window itself (upper left corner of the window, single\nclick, am I being too simplistic?) has a font option. The 8 X 12 is about the\nbiggest one I can use without the characters turning funky. ", "\n\nMake sure to take the Sutcliff, Fisk, ect. factor into account.\n", "\n\nWhat I was talking about was using an Tek terminal as your X display. I\nshould be possible to write an X server that does this as far as I can\ntell, but what I'm asking is if there is already one.\n\n-- \nmike@hopper.acs.virginia.edu ", "I am in the process of modifying an X application that uses Xlib. I'd\nlike to include a timer-driven facility (for network polling), but cannot\nsee how to do it using Xlib. I know it can be done with Xaw, using\nXtAppAddTimeout and XtTimerCallBackProc. How do I do the same using\nXlib?\n\nThanks for any help. Please email.\n", "\n\nAh, but why? Can some technically-hip Macslinger tell us what the\ndifference is between PDS and Nubus? \n\nIs it impossible to make a gadget that plugs into PDS and ends in a\nNubus card cage? At least, Marvin's friend has not been able to\nlocate one and neither have I. What is the fundamental reason for\nthis?\n", "\n\n\n\n\nWhat, pray tell, are you putting together? And what about costs? And does it\nhave to be transparent as in totally transparent? Or just transparent enough\nto allow light from the other side to shine through?\n", "\n\nIf you already own all the \"clone\" equipment then there are lots of such\nprograms (see a current copy of Unix World Magazine).\n\n*BUT* your performance WILL suck lemons running an Xserver on a clone.\n(From experience). You would be much better off with an Xterminal if this\nis a new install. The performance will be at least four times better.\nIn addition it would be MUCH easier to install and use. On top of that\nthey will cost about the same (price a clone with 4MB RAM, ethernet card,\nvery high performance graphics card, GOOD monitor, server software, TCP/IP\nfor clone software, mouse, keyboard, etc, etc, etc.... you spend a whole\nlot of $$$$).\n\nI can get 15\" Tektronix XP11 terminals for under $900, and the performance\nis over 80000 Xstones.....", "Is it possible to get an xterm scrollbar to come out on the right\nside instead of the left?\n\nRon Shenk\n", "I am looking for a package which takes as inputs a set\nof geometric objects defined by unions of convex polytopes\nspecified in some manner, say by inequalities and equalities,\nand determines in some reasonable form things like\nintersections, unions, etc. etc..\n\nDoes anyone know where I can find such a thing?", "I am very serious about the purchase of a 486dx-33 that uses the Orchid VLB \nmother board, The system also has the VLB IDE and Fahrenheit video board in \nit. I haven't seen or heard ANY bad comments about this board! Does anyone \nout there have any comments good or bad about this board? I am considering \nthis board primarily because of Orchid's reputation and long standing in \nthe field. Thanks for any and all comments.", "\nHi,\n See Roger Grywalski's response to :\n\nRe: Help on network visualization\n\nin comp.graphics.visualization.\n\nAmongst other things, it does exactly this!\n", "Mysstem crashes aftwer sleepp. I use 1.0.1 enabler. I use appletalk and \nfilesharing. I have and ExpressModem.\n\n--Lowell", "I have a mac plus with 2.5MB RAM. I have just bought an extra 2MB so that\nI can have the max 4MB RAM that a plus supports. However, I can't get it\nto boot after I install the 2 extra SIMMs. Instead I get a sad mac (Sorry,\nbut I can't remember the code). Looking at the motherboard, I can see\nthat 2 resistors have been snipped off where it says \"256Kb path -\n1 row\". I assume that was done when the first 1MB SIMMs were added.\n\nSo, my question is: Are there any other resistors that need snipping? \n\t\t\t\tor, Do I have bum SIMMs which need to be exchanged?\n\nAny and all advice will be appreciated.", "Hi,\n\nI just disassembled my old XT and get 2 disk drives - 30M hard drive and a \n360K floppy drive. My questions are:\n\n -can I use these 2 drives as drives D & E on my 386SX25 ? This 386SX25\n currently has 80M hard drive, 1.2M & 1.44M floppy drives.\n\n -if I can, what s/w or h/w do I need ?\n\n Please send your advice/comments to aovai@qube.ocunix.on.ca\n\n Thanks a lot,\n\n AV", "I build two executables for the same application. \nLet's call them Papp (uses shared libs) and SPapp (statically linked).\n\nThe problem is that I get problems when trying to build the *static one*, \nbut not the dynamic one. See the trace below. \n\nBTW, the static one runs fine despite the ominous error message. \nCan someone clue me in as to why the static one bombs at link time?\n\nThanks very much,\n\nSandiway\n\n\nDr. Sandiway Fong\nNEC Research Institute Inc.\n4 Independence Way\nPrinceton NJ 08540\n\n(609) 951-2733\n(609) 951-2482 (FAX)\n\nHere is the linking stage...\n\n/usr2/quintus/bin3.1.1/sun4-4.1/ld -e start -Bstatic Papp.o \\\n/usr2/quintus/generic/qplib3.1.1/library/sun4-4/libpl.a \\\n/usr2/quintus/generic/qplib3.1.1/library/sun4-4/libplm.a \\\n/usr2/quintus/bin3.1.1/sun4-4.1/libqp.a \\\n-lsspkg -lXpm -lm -L/usr/local/guide/lib -lguidexv -lxvps -lxview \\\n-lolgx -lX11 -lXext -lcps -lc -lpixrect -o SPapp\nUndefined:\n_XESetCreateGC\n_XESetFreeFont\n_XESetCloseDisplay\n_XESetError\n_XInitExtension\n_XESetFreeGC\n_XESetCopyGC\n_XESetCreateFont\n_XESetFlushGC\n_XESetEventToWire\n_XESetErrorString\n_XESetWireToEvent\n*** Error code 1\nmake: Fatal error: Command failed for target `SPapp'\n\nldd SPapp\nSPapp: statically linked\n\nThe shared lib version is linked in exactly the same way save for the omission\nof -Bstatic.", ": \n: >Recently my cousin got a second internal IDE drive (a Seagate 210MB,\n: >I can look up the model number if it's important) and I've been\n: >trying to help him install it. [I've got a vested interest, since\n: >my machine's busted and I have to use his until I get mine fixed.]\n: >He already has a Seagate 85MB IDE HD (again, I forget the model number\n: >but I can find out.)\n: \n: >Anyway, I can't seem to get the bloody thing up. I've managed to get\n: >one or the other drive up (with the other disconnected), but not both\n: >at the same time; whenever I try, the thing hangs during bootup -\n: >never gets past the system test. The IDE controller's instruction\n: >sheet says it supports two drives; I think I've configured the CMOS\n: >correctly; the power's plugged in properly; I even learned about the\n: >master/slave relationship that two HDs are supposed to have (didn't\n: >know PCs were into S&M! 8^) and I think I configured the jumpers\n: >properly (the 85MB one is the master, the new 210MB one is the slave).\n: \n[deleted]\n:\n: >Many, many thanks in advance! This is practically an emergency (I have\n: >two papers to do on this thing for Monday!)! Help!\n: >-- \n: >-----------------------\n: >William Barnes SURAnet Operations\n: >wbarnes@sura.net (301) 982-4600 voice (301) 982-4605 fax\n: >Disclaimer: I don't speak for SURAnet and they don't speak for me.\n: I've been told by our local computer guru that you can't do this unless you \n: perform a low level format on your existing hard drive and set your system \n: up for two hard drives from the beginning. I took him at his word, and I \n: have not tried to find out any more about it, because I'm not going to back \n: everything up just to add another HDD. If anyone knows for sure what the \n: scoop is, I would like to know also. Thanks in advance also.\n: \n: Bill Willis\n: \n\n1. do not do a low level format on an IDE drive unless you have the\n executable for doing so supplied by the manufacturer. These are\n available from bbs's or mail but the mail version costs a nominal\n fee.\n\n2. In addition to the master/slave jumper on an IDE drive there is also\n another jumper to indicate whether a slave is present. Get it right!\n\n3. The cabling is not an issue as long as pin 1 goes to pin 1 goes to\n pin 1. No twisting or swapping on an IDE cable. Be sure of pin 1\n on all three components - do not make assumptions (guesses are ok\n but assumptions are bad).\n\n4. If the cable and jumpers are correct, and the CMOS setup is correct,\n then you may have to do an FDISK followed by a high level format.\n I have NEVER personally found this necesary, but perhaps there is\n something gone wrong with the data on the disks? Probably not but\n I understand your predicament - You will probably throw salt over\n your shoulders, wear funny clothes and do a spooky sounding chant\n while dancing around the room if someone said it might help.\n\nGood Luck", "\nThese are perfectly valid points and I agree. I'm glad we (MS) are starting\nto remedy this situation with DOS 6 (and it will get better in future \nreleases). You do need to be aware of some history, however. In the \nmid-late 80's, MS's point of view was that OS/2 was going to take over\nthe world and DOS would be phased out. As such, resources for DOS\n(and windows, for that matter) development were mostly redirected to OS/2.\nThe theory was to keep just enough resources on DOS to support people\nuntil they started using OS/2, so utilities and such for DOS fell by the \nwayside.\n\nThen Windows 3.0 hit the market, OS/2 flopped (1.x, at least...2.x seems to\nbe doing a little better, but its future is still cloudy), and people either\nstayed with their DOS (3.x and 4.x) apps or moved to Windows. About that\npoint in time, MS made its decision to drop OS/2 for DOS/Windows in the\nshort term and Windows/NT in the long term. DOS 5, much improved over DOS\n3.x and 4.x, was the first result of MS's refocussing on DOS and Windows.\nVersion 6 takes things somewhat further and I suspect future versions will\noffer even more in terms of \"real\" OS features (I work on NT and have no\nreal clue about what my coworkers over in DOSland are doing, but I do\nknow that there are a heck of a lot more of them than there were a\nfew years ago).\n\n\t...Dave", "\n\nShareware is available from the net, magazines, distributors, clubs,\nfriends, and bulletin boards. I don't think people have any problems\ngetting hold of it.\n\nFill gaps in Dos? There's no need for many people - Dos 5 provides\nmore services than I need as it is. I just run Windows on top of it.\n\nBTW, my Windows must be an operating system - it provides a Disk\nOperating System that Dos can't access. (NFS...) :-)\n", "\n\nIndeed! Word is, Intel's lawsuit against AMD was absolutely THROWN OUT of\ncourt Monday! AMD said they would be shipping chips WITH THE INTEL INSTRUCTION\nSET next week!!! 486 chip prices are going to go through the floor,\nmark my words!!!\n\nRegards,\nGordon.\n", "A few posts back, somebody mentioned that the Duo might crash if it has\nthe wrong kind (non-self refreshing) of RAM in it. My Duo crashes\nsometimes after sleep, and I am wondering if there is any software which\nwill tell me whether or not I have the right kind of RAM installed. I\nhad thought that the problem was the battery connection.\n\nThanks in Advance,", "Could someone please send me the basics of the NASP project:\n1. The proposal/objectives\n2. The current status of the project/obstacles encountered\n3. Chance that the project shall ever be completed\nor any other interesting information about this project.\n\nAny help will be much appreciated\n", "Does anybody have an algorithm for \"flattening\" out a globe, or any other\nparametric surface, that is definied parametrically. \nThat is, I would like to take a sheet of paper and a knife and to be\nable to calculate how I must cut in the paper so I can fold it to a\nglobe (or any other object).\n", "\n\n\nI've even seen pictures of an installation where the ham pulled a little \ntrailer behind his car with a 4KW generator, and ran the full legal limit \nwhile mobile. I don't know what his gas mileage was like, though, or \nwhere he found resonators able to stand the gaff.\n", "\nI would suggest Draw for Windows (by Micrografx). I have this on my\nhome box. Its quite impressive and only cost UKL100. It has a rather\nnice clip-art library facility which you can expand with your own\ndrawings. There is no circuit component clip-art included, but you\ncould add your own quite easily.\n\nIt works with any Windows printer driver of course, and can also\nexport embedded postscript and PCX files.\n\nNote: I am not connected with Micrografx in any way.\n\nPaul.", "I'm a Solaris 2.1 user with a classic workstation.\n\nI have compiled xfig 2.1.7 version with -DOPENWIN flag to use it with \nopenwindows, but when i run it, the program runs and runs and runs (15 minutes)\nand never is ready to work with it. The labels are not completed and i can't\npush any button.\n\nI have no problem if i does not run the openwindows but X.\n\nAny solution?\n\nThanks in advance and excuse for my english.\n--\n\n\n-------------------------------\nPedro Antonio Acebes Bayon\nE-mail: pacebes@cozuelos.tid.es", "I have a few reprints left of chapters from my book \"Visions of the \nFuture\". These include reprints of 3 chapters probably of interest to \nreaders of this forum, including: \n \n1. Current Techniques and Development of Computer Art, by Franz Szabo \n \n2. Forging a Career as a Sculptor from a Career as Computer Programmer, \nby Stewart Dickson \n \n3. Fractals and Genetics in the Future by H. Joel Jeffrey \n \nI'd be happy to send out free reprints to researchers for scholarly \npurposes, until the reprints run out. \n \nJust send me your name and address. ", "Salutations!\n\tI don't usually subscribe to these newsgroups so I would really\nappreciate it if someone could possibly e-mail me the answer to my problem.\nI have been using Windows 3.1 since buying it last winter but I have just\nnow come across an annoying bug. I now have about 8 different groups in\nprogram manager but it seems that everytime I install something new that\nmakes a new group, it promptly disappears after I turn of windows!\nThis happened when I installed Excel and WinFax Pro v.3. They both created\ntheir own groups but when I turned off windows and reran them, they were\ngone. I had to manually pull them up as new items and put them in a\npreviously existing group as all new gropus disappear as soon as I turn\noff windows.\n\tmy set up:\n\t\t\tprecision 386dx-25 w/ 4 megs\n\t\t\tTrident 8900c with 1 meg \n\t\t\tWindows 3.1 running in 800x600 colour mode\n\t\t\tlogitech mouseman\n\t\t\t\nThank you in advance!\n\nEmile Woo\newoo@unixg.ubc.ca\n\n\n\n-- ", "I recently backed out of purchasing an almost-unused Sony TCD-D3 DAT\nWalkman, having found someone else who has a unit I personally prefer (and am\npaying more for). However, it's still a heck of a machine for the price -- it\nis quite rugged, and many people out there swear by it. (It's probably the\nmost popular walkman-style DAT machine out there.)\n\n Anyway, the guy selling it is Bryan Davis (bdavis@netcom.com), and\nhere's what he told me:\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nHere is what is included:\n - TCD-D3 DATman.\n - (2) RCA to Stereo 1/8\" plug cables. One for analog input, one for\n analog output.\n - Optical digital I/O cable (one lead for input, one for output).\n - A copy of my sales receipt with a note about your purchase. The\n unit is still under factory warrantee.\n - AC adaptor/battery charger.\n - Rechargable battery.\n\nI paid $750 + tax for it so I hope you don't mind if I keep the 60 minute\ntape it came with (I have some samples on it!).\n\n[By the way, he spent at least $100 too much for it, unless he's including an\n extended warranty, which is advised for DAT machines, since it costs about\n $300 to replace the head when it wears out, and it probably will within 5\n years if you use it a lot.. -- davisonj]\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n I'm not going to quote my sale price for him: that would not be nice.\nSend him mail and ask him what he wants.\n\n Again, I've used the TCD-D3, and I have to say that I can certainly\nunderstand why it is as popular as it is. I've been using one for a little\nwhile, and although I had some problems with it recently, I should also point\nout that the particular one I was using had been on the road for two years and\nhad truly been _used_ during that time. (This is the same exact DAT machine\nthat was lugged around the U.S. and Canada to record the Jazz Butcher\nConspiracy for their recent live album.)\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nI know at least half a dozen professional musicians and record labels\nin S.F who use that model (and have been for a while) with no reported\nproblem. My problem is that everyone I know already has one.\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n 'nuff said.\n\n The reason I'm not getting it is that I found someone else selling me a\nunit that features phono-plug SPDIF I/O instead of optical (I don't have any\noptical ports on my equipment, but you, the reader, might), and it also has\nsome other bells & whistles that the TCD-D3 doesn't. (I am also paying more\nfor the alternative.) Note that phono-plug-to-optical SPDIF adapters are\navailable if you absolutely must have one.\n\n Of course, it has SCMS. All consumer decks do. (So do Sony Minidiscs,\nby the way.)\n\n Anyway, if you're interested, get in touch with bdavis@netcom.com.\n", "Hi,\n\nI am about to write an application in X/Motif that will require the\nembedding of a pseudo tty. So, before I re-invent the wheel, has anyone\nwritten/gotten a motif widget that does the job ? Otherwise, I would\nappreciate any pointers to make such a beast.\n\nMy environment is X11R4/Motif 1.1 and X11R5/Motif 1.2 (if this helps).\n\n\nThanks in advance.\n", "Look for Spice or PSpice\n", "PaintShop Pro for Windows is a fantastic product. It can handle TIFF, GIF,\nBMP, PCX, and many other formats, displaying them and converting between\nthem. There is a shareware version of the program; I assume it's available\nin the Windows areas of the standard anonymous FTP locations (I'd try\nftp.cica.indiana.edu). Log in as ftp, use your username as a password,\nand look for a program called PSP101.exe or something like that. I have\nthe registered version, and the only major difference I can detect is that\nthe unregistered version pops up a message when you start the program\nasking you to please register it.\n\nOnce again, FANTASTIC software. Up to 24 bits, huge images, everything.\n\n-Brian\n\n", "\nI can't say for sure with the IIvx -> C650 upgrade, but I wondered the\nsame thing when I ordered my LC -> LC III upgrade. Turns out the \"upgrade\"\nis actually an entire CPU minus any disk drives. You pull the floppy and\nhard drives out of the old one, stick them in the new one, and you've got\nan LC III.\n\nThe IIvx -> C650 may be the same thing.\n\nIt might be something to look into for those people who are unhappy that\nApple only sells Macs pre-packaged with the drives. Of course, the price\nis quite a bit higher without the trade-in...", "These utilities all include complete printed manuals and\nregistration cards. I need to get rid of some excess.\nThey're the latest versions. I've priced these programs\nat less than half the list price and significantly less\nthan the cheapest mail-order price around.\n \n* PC TOOLS FOR DOS 8.0, best-selling utilities collections,\nincludes DOS shell, antivirus program, backup program,\ndisk defragger, memory optimizer, remote communications\nlink, data protection and recovery utilities, appointment\nbook, address book, and more, list $179, sale $80.\n \n* NORTON BACKUP FOR DOS 2.2, supports DOS 6, tape backup\nsystems, and LANS, twice as fast as backup in DOS 6, highly\nautomated and customizable, list $149, sale $65.\n \n* QAPLUS 4.7, top-rated DOS based systems diagnostics\nprogram, more comprehensive than anything included in DOS,\nWindows, or utilities collections, invaluable for determining\nsources of problems with RAM, video, drives, ports, keyboard,\nmotherboard, joystick, mouse, speaker, and so on, list $159,\nsale $70.\n \nIf you're interested in any of these programs, please phone me at\n215-885-7446 (Philadelphia), and I'll save the package for you.", "I am looking for a program to draw various kinds of diagrams on my Linux\nsystem.\n\n- It must be free.\n- It must run on standard (monochrome) X with a small screen size (800x600)\n No motif/openlook etc.\n- It must compile under Linux with gcc/g++. Most generic unix software\n works ok.\n- It must produce postscript files that I can include into LaTeX documents\n with dvips. Or just tell me another free program that converts one\n of the supported formats to ps.\n- It must produce drawings that are larger than the window size (scrollable).\n\nI know of several such programs, idraw, xfig. tgif. I have\nno experience with any of them. Features I would like in the programs are.\n\n- ability to draw circles, arcs, straight lines, boxes and arrows.\n- support for both dashed and solid line styles for all of these objects.\n- support for texts in any size.\n- ability to move/copy/resize/rotate any part of the drawing.\n- ability to turn any part of the drawing into a library component\n (e.g. a transistor symbol composed of three lines, an arrow and a circle)\n- any aid (numeric coordinates, screen grid) to align parts of the drawing.\n- less essential, but in fact very handy: preservation of connection.\n If I move one part of the drawing, the lines that connect that part to the\n rest of the drawing, stay connected.\n\nIdeally I want the tool so general and flexible that it is comfortable to\ndraw electronic schematics, flow charts, logic diagrams, data flow diagrams\nand block diagrams with it. \n\nI just want to know which of the programs offer which of the features on my\nwhishlist and are there any other programs? How demanding are the programs\nwith respect to disk space, memory and CPU usage? Are any of the programs\nknown to work on Linux with monochrome X?", "Xircom Pocket Ethernet Adapter\nConnects any PC with a parallel port to the network\n\nMake offer\n", "There are several programs on sumex that allow Macs with superdrives to\nread and write unix tar diskettes.\n---\n-- ", "rvenkate@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Ravikuma Venkateswar) writes ...\n\nBenchmarks are for marketing dweebs and CPU envy. OK, if it will make\nyou happy, the 486 is faster than the 040. BFD. Both architectures\nare nearing then end of their lifetimes. And especially with the x86\narchitecture: good riddance.\n\n\nThe point being the processor speed is only one of many aspects of a\ncomputers performance. Clock speed, processor, memory speed, CPU\narchitecture, I/O systems, even the application program all contribute \nto the overall system performance.\n\n\nLook them up yourself.\n", "Could someone tell me how to make/find/get the best frontplate for\nIIvi/IIvx/C650 with internal SyQuest drive?\n\nIs there one available or do I have to make one from the original or\nCD-ROM one or scratch?\n\nEvery suggestion welcome.\n", " /dev/null!\n\n************************************************************************\n*********\nAnd if anyone wants to let me do this for a living: you know where to\nwrite :-)!\n************************************************************************\n*********\n\nThanks,\n\nRobert.", "In PC Magazine April 27, 1993:29 \"Although SCSI is twice as fasst as ESDI,\n20% faster than IDE, and support up to 7 devices its acceptance ...has\nlong been stalled by incompatability problems and installation headaches.\"\nnote what it does NOT site as a factor: PRICE.\nint eh same article the PC would will get plug and play SCSI {from the\narticle it seems you get plug and play SCSI-1 only since SCSI-2 in FULL\nimplimentation has TEN NOT 7 devices.}\nSCSI-1 intergration is sited as another part of the MicroSoft Plug and play\nprogram.\n", "\nThere's absolutely no reason why differences in the DRAM access time \n_alone_ would cause an incompatibility. There would have to be another \ndifference between the SIMMs for there to be a problem. I've often used \nmemory of different speeds with no problems whatsoever. As long as it's\nas fast (or faster) than the minimum requirement you should be fine.\n\nJust out of curiosity, did you actually try this and see a problem, or \nwere you told it wouldn't work and so never tried it? Also out of \ncuriosity, do you know exactly who in Cupertino you dealer talked to (as \nI'd like to find out what they're basing this recommendation on).", "First $50.00 grabs it! It's a Sears Kenmore 700 Watt unit FYI.\nArt\n\nThis unit has been sold. Thank you for your replies!\n\nThere is another oven available for those still interested. My mother\ndecided to sell her spare. Same price, $50.00 to the first taker.\n\nHer's is strictly microwave, no convection, and is in equally good\ncondition. Same size as our's, approximately 4-5 cubic feet.\n\nLet me know!\n\nArt\n", "Some people working a few cubes over have come up with this need, and\nit seems that someone out there just might have done it already, and\ncan point me to some tools that would help. What they'd like to do is:\nGiven a window that is taking a long time to draw (because either the\ndata is arriving over a slow link, or the $DISPLAY is across a slow\nlink), they would like to first paint a low-resolution version of the\npicture, and then repaint it in higher resolution. Thus, the picture\nmight first be generated in 1/4 resolution, with each 4x4 square of\npixels being filled in with a single color. Next, each 4x4 square\nwould be replaced by 4 2x2 squares; finally the 1x1 version would be\npainted.\n\nSince one of the scenarios is with the window being on the other side\nof a slow link, the low-res version obviously wouldn't be transmitted\nas a bitmap; that wouldn't help at all. Instead, there would have to\nbe a process on the far end that receives the low-res picture as a\nsmall bitmap, and blows up each pixel into a square (sorta like the\nmagnifier programs do). This brings up the question of whether the X\nserver can help. That is, when a window is opened, is there a way to\nask that a \"filter\" program be run to process the pixels? Or is the\nonly way to use something like rsh to start up a remote process\n(\"Permission denied\" ;-), and have it open a local window?\n\nIt seems the most likely scenario is a library routine that starts up\nsuch a program remotely, and then accepts bitmaps, compressing each\none by some amount, and sending them to the remote program to expand.\nBut if there is something that X itself can do to help, it's be nice\nto hear about it. (I looked in several FMs, but if it's there, I\nobviously don't know the keywords ;-). If someone has a nifty tool\navailable that packages it all, we might want to get a copy.\n\nOh, yes; this is to run on some Suns. Part of the idea is to build\ndemos that can show such things as \"If this were run across, say, a\n4800-bps link, this is how fast the pictures would appear.\" Then the\ncustomer would get a feel for the speed that they need to pay for.\n", "Hi Xperts, some simple questions for you:\n\nI've seen a lot of different terms, which seem to mean the same thing.\nWho can give an exact definition what these terms mean:\n\n\t-) multi-screen\n\t-) multi-headed\n\t-) multi-display\n\t-) X-Server zaphod mode\n\nIs there a limit how many screens/displays a single server can handle\n(in an articel a read something about an upper limit of 12) ?\n\nHow is the capability called, if I want to move the cursor from one\nscreen/display to another.\n\nAny hints welcome.\n\nThanks, rainer.", "\nWell, I looked for it and didn't manage to find it in my listings for TNN. Has \nanybody taped it VHS, and could they be persuaded to lend it to me after they \nwatch it? I would be most greatful.\n-- ", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nOne of the most popular methods of course is the password check where they ask\nyou for a word from page x, line y, and word z, but this is pitifully simple to\nremove unless you throw some checksums into the main part of your program, and\nsome self-rewriting code to confuse some people. Also, make sure that your\nprogram can not be run out a debugger.\n\nAnother method of course is to not even make bad sectors on the original disk,\njust write a certain key to a certain unallocated sector. To help you here,\nyou also must do the code protection schemes mentioned in the first paragraph.\nMake sure you also fill the rest of the unallocated parts of the disk with\ngarbage as well, or they (wanna be crackers) can just look for the junk in\nsome random sector.\n\nLike you mentioned, there are the laser holed disks and hardware keys, but they\nare both expensive and a pain in the butt for the end-user, which you is the\nopposite of what you want.\n\nAnother configuration that can be used is to save the configuration of the\nmachine that it is being installed to in the most undecipherable format you can\nthink of. If the program does not find that this is the same system, it\nrequests being installed by the original disk again. The original disk should\nbe encrypted, compacted, have many sectors that should be checked, and anything\nelse you can think of to make sure that the original cannot be copied. Once\nagain, you MUST put code-encryption, self-rewriting code, and multiple CRC\nchecks in the program to make sure that it does not get changed. Among other\nthings, this also protects your program from virii. If the program detects a\nchange in its code, tell the user that a virus has been detected in the\nprogram. Tell them the program is \"VIRUS SECURE\", and remember, you have\nhelped the world kill some pirating and kill some viruses. Feel good.\n\nI hope that I have helped. Have fun. Knock some cracking out (well, you can't\ndo it, everything that can be written can be cracked, but you'll piss'em off in\nthe process!). Goodbye.\n\nWhat is the program that will be sold?\n--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGeorge Gruschow Death do you gronk.\nag625@yfn.ysu.edu ggruscho@nyx.cs.du.edu", "I'm looking for good deals on the following (used or new):\nAviation Headsets (with mic).\nHandheld Nav/Com tranciever (may consider COM only).\nPortable GPS or Loran Navigator.\n\nReply here or call:\n(717)737-3236 (only after 5pm -- please don't wake the night worker\n in my house).\n(717)540-2895 if you must call during the day (I can understand if you\n want your employer to pay for the call).\n\n_______________________________________________________________________________\nJay A. Snyder jay@gdx ...{uunet,vogon1}!compnect!gdx!jay\nThis is your Brain: (unix) GDX-BBS (717) 737-3249 WorldBlazer\nThis is your Brain on drugs: (MSDOS) Unix and MSDOS File areas + Xenix bins", "Hello,\n\n\nCan anyone out there tell me if it is possible to put ordinary standard\nSIMM RAM chips (70 ns) in a COMPAQ PROLINEA 4/50 or do COMPAQ require \nspecial COMPAQ RAM chips. \n\nPlease (also) email me.\n\n\nThanks in advance.\n\nJesper\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\njesper honig spring, spring@diku.dk | IF ANIMALS BELIEVED IN GOD \nuniversity of copenhagen, denmark | THE DEVIL WOULD BE A MAN", "\n\nI'd be happy to US (international) Snail mail technical information on\nimaging databases to anyone who needs it, if you can provide me with your\naddress for hard copy (not Email). We're focusing mostly on Open PACE,\nOracle, Ingres, Adabas, Sybase, and Gupta, regarding our imaging\ndatabases installed. (We have over 1,000 installed and in production now;\nmost of the new ones going in are on Novell LANs, the RS/6000, and now HP\nUnix workstations.) We work with Visual Basic too.", "On an ISO/ANSI-standard 5.25\" magneto-optical disc, how many sectors\nare there per track (or disc revolution), and how many tracks per\ndisc?\n\nThanks,", "I just installed a new TrueType font under MS-Windows 3.1\nbut though all the applications display the font correctly on the\nscreen, quite a few of them fail to print out the document correctly\n(on a LaserJet 4 - non-PostScript printer).\n\nWhen I use the font in CorelDRAW, the document prints correctly, so I assume\nCorelDRAW knows that the font has to be downloaded to the printer.\n\nBut when I use the Windows accessory Write, the printer prints square\nboxes in place of the characters of the new font. Yet, Write does\ndisplay the font correctly on the screen.\n\nI looked through all the Windows and LaserJet manuals, but got nowhere.\nAll of them just make the statement that TrueType fonts will print\nexactly as you see them on the screen---so I assume Windows knows that a font\nhas to be downloaded automatically---but, how to make it do that????", "We where following version of xv and I have been very surprise to discover that\nthe new version is a shareware: What a pitty !!! :-( .\nWhat I found on the Inthernet was the freeware. I make myself a freeware and\nI spent long time on it but I don't plain to make paid to use it. I think\nif evrybody spent some time to make freeware, evrybody will be paid by the use\nof other freeware.\n\nHere we will stay with XV 2 and drop XV 3.\n", "\n\n\nHe's mistaken. They exist, the semiconductor is silicon carbide, and they\nare inefficient and expensive. The bandgap is around 2.7 ev.\n\n\nThe ones I have are clear plastic. Pray tell, what would make a \"typical\"\nLED emit blue light?\n\n", "\nI've been using the xrpc package for about a year now. I believe I got it from\nexport. \n", "Dear Folks:\n\nIt's a pleasure to be able to announce the release of a new freeware program, \nXavier, an audio and video extension to InterViews.\n\nXavier(eXtension AV class for IntERviews) is a C++ class library\nthat adds multimedia capability to InterViews. It allows composite\nmultimedia objects to be built from media objects.\n\nSpecifically, it adds audio and video objects to the classes available\nin InterViews 3.0.1/3.1, and it does so without changing the\nsource code for the original classes (though several configuration\nfiles for InterViews need to be changed via a patch file). \n \nCurrently, the Xavier audio classes are only supported on SUN\nworkstations with an audio interface, such as the SPARCstation2.\n\nXavier has been tested in the following environments:\n\nSUN:\n Machine : SPARCserver470 SPARCstation-IPC\n OS : SUN-OS4.1.1 or later\n C++ : SUN C++ ver2.1\n\nNEC(EWS):\n Machine : EWS4800/210,230\n OS : EWS-UX/V(Rel4.0) WSOS41 Release5.1,Release5.2\n C++ : C++ Release3.1\n\nIt can be obtained via anonymous ftp from \n\n interviews.stanford.edu in /pub/contrib/\n (Xavier.large-demo.tar, and Xavier.tar)\n\nWe are preparing a mailing-list for information regarding Xavier.\nIf you are interested, please contact\n \n xavier@tsl.cl.nec.co.jp. \n\nI will add your e-mail address to our list.\n\n[Reference]\no Rei Hamakawa, Hizekazu Sakagami, Jun Rekimoto:\n Audio and Video Extension to Graphical Interface Toolkits,\n The Third International Workshop on Network and Operating\n System Support for Digital Audio and Video, San Diego, 1992", "Hello, I am trying to hook an Apple Imagewriter to my IBM Clone.\nI seem to have a problem configuring my lpt port to accept this. How can\nyou adjust baud, parity, etc. to fit the system? I tried MODE, but it did\nnot work. If anyone can help, post of e-mail. Thanx.\n", "What is address interliving? and memmory modules interliving?\nThanks in advance for the info.\nRobert.\n\n", "In some hobby shop, they sell a flexible tube (1/4-inch diameter,\n18-inch ling) that will illuminate if you bend or shake it (it\nis also sold in amusement parks in the evenings). The brightness\ncan last 2 to 4 hours. If it is left in refrigrator (in coldness),\nyou can prolong its life of illumination.", "\nNot to mention Computer Associates. I'll have to be careful to stop telling\npeople I'm a Clipper programmer, they might lynch me... :-)\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\tTry rec.radio.packet\n\n \n _______ ______\n / / / / Michael A. de Kraker\n / /______ / / Georgia State University 404-651-2390\n / ___ / / / Internet:REGMAD@GSUSGI2.GSU.EDU\n /_______/ ______/ /_______/ BITNET :REGMAD@GSUVM1 PACKET:KD4FKW@W4QO", "It's my understanding that, when you format a magneto-optical disc, (1) the\nformatting software installs a driver on the disc, (2) if you insert the\ndisc in a different drive, then this driver is loaded into the computer's\nmemory and then controls the drive, and (3) if this driver is incompatible\nwith the drive, then the disc can not be mounted and/or properly read/written\nIs that correct?", "Is it possible to plug an ordinary ISA card into a VESA localbus slot?\nI am running out of slots and I have one spare localbus slot.\n", "\nNot necessarily true; a short in one, if near the maximum series\nvoltage drop, will overvoltage the other one and short it too, more", "I've been using Final from CODA for some time, but suddenly it stopped using \nmy fonts. I have a 386 PC with lots of disk space and memory, a Postscript \nlaser, Win3.1, Finale 2.0.1 and I recently installed ATM 2.0. I've been \nfiddling around with the Windows setup for some time, and when I needed to do \nsome work with Finale things didn't print properly. It might - and it might \nnot - have anything to do with the installation of ATM from 1.something to \n2.0, but I don't have the old ATM lying around anomore. \n\nThe most annoying problem was that the Petrucci font didn't print, which is a \nrather important font :-) \n\nI managed to get direct printing to work if I included OwnPS=0 in the \n[Finale] section of WIN.INI, but Compile PostScript Listing still doesn't \nwork; and it's those .EPS files I need. When I look at the .eps files \ngenerated the only font which appears there is Courier. I found out that if I \nmanually changed the Courier 24-point to Petrucci 24-point in the .EPS file \neverything worked ok, but I'd rather avoid that since I have a lot of songs \nto work with. \n\nAnd yes, in the Special/Font/Font names dialog box all the fonts I need are \nlisted, with the correct mapping between Finale, Screen and Printer fonts. \nFinale is obviously aware of the fonts since direct printing of a score works \nwell (that is, after I included OwnPS=0), and all my other Windows \napplications print Petrucci and the other fonts well. \n\nHas anyone encountered problems like this? \n\nWhat is the current version of Finale from Coda Music Software? I have 2.0.1\n\nAre the people at Coda available on Internet or X.400?\n\nI'd be grateful for all hints and help. -mats", " Correct. Most X servers use a version of malloc(3) which will not return\n memory to the OS (ie. the X server might free(3) a Pixmap, but the heap does\n not shrink).\n\n Well, part of the routines I mentioned do a dirty little trick to get around\n that problem. First, I create the shared memory segment, attach the client,\n attach the X server, and then remove (!) the segment. If you read the man\n pages on removing of shared memory segments, you will see that the segment\n only dies after all attachments are gone.\n Now, if the client dies, that's one attachment gone (the OS cleans up for you)\n and since the X server notices the client has dies, frees up it's resources,\n including detaching from the segment: there goes the last attachment. No more\n shared memory segment.\n Terrible, but it works.\n\n\t\t\t\tRegards,", "Hi to all you PC gurus!\n\nI'm new to these groups and so please forgive me if my questions are frequently\nasked, but I don't know the answer :) I've been recently having some problems\nwith my 386 computer with a Seagate 40 meg hard drive. I occasionally find\ncorrupted files, but most of the time programs work fine. Are there any utilities\nthat are easily available that can help me determine whether or not the problem\nis a result of the hard drive vs an ill-behaved program or some other hardware\nitem? Are there utilites to determine whether or not the hard drive is properly\naligned etc? As might be expected, I would greatly appreciate any help on this\nmatter. I'm considering just reformatting the disk and reinstalling everything\n(and hoping that will fix the problem), but I would like to have some assurance\nof what the problem cause is. \n\nAlso, can someone give me an opinion on DOS 6.0? Are the compression and\ndefragmentation routines good enough to consider the upgrade if I don't have\nthose routines already (as opposed to buying them separately)? \n\n\nMuch thanks in advance for any help.", "Do the accelaratores make a lot of difference?\nAs I understand, there is graphics and cpu accelaration.\n\nDoes graphics accelarator help out with the scanner and\nthe photo shop?\n\nIs combination of both practical?\n\nI have a Mac IIci. What kinds of accelaratores can I use?\n\n\n\n---\n\n", "\tIn certain Apple 13\" RGB monitors there has been a problem with\n\tthe HIGH VOLTAGE CAPASITOR. Apple knows about this problem and is\n\treplacing the cap at no cost if it falls into the bad batch that\n\tthey got from their supplier. Your local repair shop should know about\n\tREPAIR EXTENSION 3L0218.\n", "Try MaxAppleZoom ( a shareware init ) if your monitor is not driven by internal\nvideo.", "Hello netters!\n \nI have a fairly weak question to ask everybody in netland. I've looked though\nthe last FAQ for comp.graphics but I didn't find my answer. Thus the post.\n \nI'll keep it short.\n \nQUESTION: How do I display any raster files, gif files, iff or tiff images\nthat I have on my \"root window\" or background? I have a sun ipc, openwindows\n3.0, Sun OS 4.1.3 if that helps any.\n \nI've compiled POV for the sun and would like to display some of the work I have\ndone as a background/tile. Thanks for any help or information that you\nprovide. Have a good day.\n \nScott Fleming\nOSI", "\n\twindow = XCreateWindow(...);\n\tXSetTransientForHint(display, window, window);\n\tXMapWindow(...);", "If you can modify the design of the DTMF decoder, the ideal comunications\nwould be over a multi-drop system, like RS-485. RS-485 boards are available\nfor PC's, probably cheaper than a bunch of RS-232 channels, and RS-485 is\ncheaper to build onto your satellite modules, using only a single supply\n8-pin DIP driver chip. Software at the PC end would be similarly complex\nfor either RS-232 or RS-485, in my opinion. The higher data rates possible\nwith RS-485 would permit quasi-simultaneous data transmission.\nHope this helps.", "I saw the following computer in a store and wanted to know if this is a good\ncomputer or does someone see something wrong with it. I also would like to\nswitch the motherboard later when this computer becomes too slow. Does anyone\nknow if this is possible with a Leading Edge Computer, or will it be difficult\nto find a motherboard that will fit in this computer. Any help will be\ngreatly appreciated.\n\n Leading Edge- Model PC4170E\n\n * Intel 486SX/25 Mhz CPU\n * Supports Intel OverDrive clock-Doubling Processors(What is this?)\n * Upgradable to 486DX2/66\n * 4 MB RAM upgradable to 32 MB\n * 8 KB internal cache\n * 1.2 MB 5 1/4\" & 1.44 MB 3.5\" Disk Drives \n * 213 MB Hard Drive\n * 1024 x 768 VGA Video Resolution\n * 1 MB Video RAM 256 Colors\n * 6 Available 16-bit ISA expansion Slots\n * One local bus socket (16-bit ISA Compatible)\n * 4 5.25\" drive bays, 3 external\n * One 25-pin Centronics type parallel port\n * 2 RS-232C Serial Ports (9 & 25 pin)\n * One 15-pin analog video connector\n * One PS/2 Compatible mouse port\n * 200 Watt power supply\n * 101 key keyboard and mouse included\n * Software includes Windows 3.1, Dos 5.0, Microsoft Works for Windows\n\n The store wants $1200 (without monitor) for this. Is it a good price?\n\n Thanks!\n", "I would like to buy a 4 channel multitrack recorder. I would\nprefer a cassette machine such as those made by Fostex, Tascam,\nYamaha, etc. but would consider reel-to-reel as well. Write me\nif you know of anything.\n\nThanks.\n\n--\nW. Craig Scratchley | internet: scratch@sce.carleton.ca\nDept. of Systems and Computer Engineering | phone: (613) 788-5740 (Dept.)\nCarleton University | (613) 241-6952 (Home)\nOttawa, ON, CANADA K1S 5B6 | fax: (613) 788-5727 (Dept.)", "\nNo. As soon as you blit two of this icons once on top of the other with a\nlittle dislocation, you see the rectangular blit crashes too much of the\nicon first blitted, because it draws a full rectangle. The way to do it\nis masking: Create a bitmap with all pixels to be merged are 1 and all\nnot to be merged are 0. Then, set the clip_mask of the gc to this\nbitmap, set the clip_x_origin and clip_y_origin of the gc to the x/y\ncoordinates where you blit the icon to the destination drawable, use GXCopy,\nand XCopyArea() the icon pixmap to the destination drawable using this gc.\n\n", "Hello,\n\nHello,\n\n I was wondering if anyone knew of a PC or MAC\nimplementation of the marching cubes algorithm that will output\nthe individual faces. If there is no such application, might there\nbe some C source code that I could modify to implement the\nalgorithm and get to the individual faces.\n\nThanks in advance\nSincerly\n\nTracy", "For image display, about 10 frames per second seems to be the lower limit\nfor interactive operations. For just bringing up an image for viewing less\nthan 1 second seems to be a good number. Of course the measure of response\ntime should be based on the applications you are planning to run.\n", "This may be a simple question but:\n\nWe have a number of PC's which we use to link to a mainframe using \nNovell LAN WorkPlace for DOS (via WIndows 3.1). \nNow, to make life easier for us we are thinking of using Windows for\nWorkgroups to allow file sharing across our PC network. \n\nNow does anyone know if it is possible to use W4WG and Lan Workplace\nfor DOS at the same time. \n\nie Can I access a file on another PC while being logged on to the\nmainframe at the same time, simultaneously.\n\nAny help well appreciated.", "\nDoes anyone know of an X-based terminal emulator which can\nemulate a color tektronics graphics terminal such as \nTEK 4105 or TEK 4107, etc?\n\n", "Just as the title suggest, is it okay to do that?\nI havne't got DOS6 yet, but I heart DoubleSpace is less tight than stacker 3.0.\nWhat are disadvantage/advantages by doing that?\n\nAny comments will be appreciated.", "On the subject of ghostscript, it will also solve the earlier request\nof converting postscript to HPGL to filter into Interleaf.", "\nThe following postscript works for LaserWriter IIg's with version 2 roms\n\n%!\n0 serverdict begin exitserver\n<< /FactoryDefaults true >> setsystemparams\nsystemdict begin\nrealtime 10000 add\n{ dup realtime le { pop exit } if } loop\nquit", "\nJust thought I would mention that Sony no longer manufactures the CPD-\n1304 because of several manufacturing flaws. The new model is now the\n1430, which just like Apple's new Sony Trinitrom CLAIMS to be 14 inches.\nI'm not sure of the details on the defects, but I work at our schools\nbookstore\nand can tell you that nearly half of them were returned with some kind of \ndefect or another.", "ielding RF of all time, as far\ncomparable\nyou\nhas\n\n", "SMARTCAM VERSION 7 FOR SALE. Purchased in August 1992. Latest version!\nAlso willing to sell 486 33dx. 124mg hard drive. 17\" multi scan monitor.\n\npaid $11,000 for software and $2800 for computer. Also includes 1 yr maintanence\ncontract that can be updated every year for apx. $950 per year.\n\nMake offer.\n\nCall 1 800 940-7874\nor 216-941-7400", "I am posting this for a friend. PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS ACCOUNT!!!\n\nIf you are interested in any of the following, ask for Rob at (510) 521-3147.\n\nLaptop PC: $1200\n- 386SX 20MHz CPU\n- 4 MB RAM\n- 120 MB Hard Drive\n- VGA Graphics (32 Greyscale) LCD\n- External VGA Port\n- 3.5\" High Density Floppy Drive\n- Removable 101-key keyboard\n- External keyboard port\n- 2 Serial, 1 Parallel and 1 Expansion ports\n- Expansion unit available, which has 2 full-size card slots\n\nBernoulli Drive: $400\n- Dual 20 MB Disk Drives\n- 20 MB cartridges (comes with 4 disks)\n- External unit\n\nScanner: $50\n- Logitech Scanman", "I am working on a project to provide an emergency management\ninformation system. In keeping with more classic command and\ncontrol type systems, we are considering developing a dual screen monitor\nsystem in order to provide a status board on it's own monitor. \nI have a number of X level questions regarding this:\n\n(We are devloping on Unix systems using X/Motif. Platform will be \npredominantly Sun's, probably with ports to RS/6000 as well).\n\nI am assuming the standard dual monitor systems are configured\nsuch that we are talking about one X display and multiple screens,\nand not multiple X displays. Given this:\n\n\t- Is changing input focus from one screen to the other as simple\n\tas tracking your mouse from one screen to the other? There's\n\tnothing special that needs to be done to shift focus between\n\tscreens?\n\n\t- Do I have to run separate window managers on the separate\n\tscreens or are there multiscreen window managers out there?\n\tWhat are they; who sells them...\n\n\t- Is a multi-screen window manager the only way I can grab a\n\twindow frame and move a window from one screen to the next?\n\n\t- Is there any way for the application to transparently see\n\tmultiple screens as one logical x-y plane, or does the hardware\n\tonly provide for each screen to start at 0,0?\n\n\t- Any thoughts on the difficulties involved with designing a\n\tsystem capable of using either multiple screens or a single\n\tscreen (perhaps running a virtual window manager to simulate\n\tmultiple screens instead)? \n\tI am assuming that this is not a major issue - that I can rely\n\ton providing config files which will specify for each\n\tconfiguration the screen placement of each window in the\n\tapplication. Any thoughts or suggestions from past experience\n\tare more than welcome.\n", "---\nHello!\n\nWe want to configure our X11R5 sytem (i486 33Mhz running BSD-like UNIX)\ncomming up with a chooser menu with different machines on it (works) an then\nconnect to them. But the only connection works is localhost!\nAn 'X -indirect ' works very well!\nThe configuration:\n\n\t\t- starting the 'xdm' at boot time with no servers specified\n\t\t in Xservers\n\t\t- starting the X-server at boot time with X -indirect localhost\n\n\t ---> the chooser menu appears with the machines named in\n\t\t Xacces bye\n\t\t\t'*\tCHOOSER ... BROADCAST\t\n\t\t- the number of users on this machines and the load is \n\t\t displayed correct\n\n\t\t- selecting an other machine than my own host the X-server\n\t\t starts and nothing happens, after a time out the CHOOSER menu\n\t\t appears again.\n\nI know the xdm bug in X11R4, but all machines running X11R5\n\nPlease help\n\t\t\tLars\n\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------", "\n\nYou are probably referring to the products of\n\t\t\n\t\tOpto Diode Corp.\n\t\t750 Mitchell Road\n\t\tNewbury Park Ca 91320\n\t\t805 499-0335\n\nThe make some amazing IRLED's. The really high-powered devices are arrays of\n3, 6, or 9, LED's on a TO-66 header. The 9-chip model puts out 6.5 Watts in\nresponse to a 5 Amp, 10 uS. pulse at a .5% duty cycle. I think these are\ndesigned as illuminators for IR vision systems.", "\n I need help in creating my 4x4 perspective matrix. I'd like to use this for\n transforming x, y, z, w in some texture mapping code I got from Graphics Gems\n I. I have many books which talk about this, but none of them in simple plain\n english. If you have Graphics Gems I, I'm talking about page 678.\n\n I'd like to have a perspective matrix that handles different field-of-views\n and aspect of course. Thank's for your help.\n\nca2 = cos(alpha / 2) Horizontal\nsa2 = sin(alpha / 2)\ncb2 = cos(beta / 2) Vertical\nsb2 = sin(beta 7 2)\nZf = Far clipping value\nZn = Near clipping value\n\nMatrix:\n[[ca2/sa2 0 0 0]\n[0 cb2/sb2 0 0]\n[0 0 Zf/(Zf-Zn) 1]\n[0 0 -Zn*Zf/(Zf-Zn) 0]]", "\n\n\n\n Apple has really confused people with this whole thing. I think\nwe'll be answering this question for about the next year or so. There is\nno \"option\" to get an FPU on a C650. What you have is a choice of CPUs:\nthere is the 68LC040 that does not have an integrated FPU like the full\n'040 and is only present in the base 4/80 model of the C650 (AppleUSA).\nAnd there is the full '040 which you get when you order anything other\nthan the base 4/80 configuration. Therefore, since you have ordered one\nof the 8MB versions with on-board Ethernet models you will not be\ngetting the LC040. But even if you wanted to have the LC040 you wouldn't\nbe able to order a C650 with 8MB RAM, on-board Ethernet and an LC040.\nIt's not an \"option.\"\n Also, a note to people out there that have 4/80 C650s and C610s\nthinking that there is an optional FPU, the '040 class chip cannot\nrecognize an external FPU, so there is no socket on the motherboard for\na FPU chip and you cannot go out and purchase an FPU on a PDS card or\nsomething like that. The only way to get an FPU in these machines is to\nreplace the LC040 with a full '040. And if you have a C610, you will not\nneed to worry about a heat sink if you do replace the LC040 with the\nfull '040, but if you have a 4/80 C650 you do need to have a heat sink.", "Hello.\n\n I purchased a video card called ET-4000 true color card which\n can provide about 1700K colors. But the question is I can't find\n the corresponding drivers for windows 3.1 , I am now using 65k\n colors driver for win31. It works fine , but I think it will be\n better if I use 1700k driver. So, please tell me whether such a\n driver is available !\n\n Thanks in advance.\n\n", "\n\n\nHowdy... I think you would be interested in Infini-D 2.5 for the Mac. There\nis no DOS or Windows version. It's quite an amazing program.\n\n\"Some\" of the features:\n\n* Bevel Text\n* Timeline based animation sequencer\n* Realtime bounding box preview\n* Object linking\n* Phong Shading\n* Ray Tracing\n* Bounding Box shading\n* Wireframe shading\n* Ghourad shading\n* Flat shading\n* Anti-aliasing (none, low, medium, high)\n* Environment maps\n* Quicktime support (wrap a QT movie around an object)\n* Procedural surfaces\n* Composed surfaces (for layering surfaces)\n* Alpha channel support\n* Import EPS, DXF, and Swivel 3D files\n* Export DXF and Swivel 3D files\n* Spline based animation\n* Animation assistant (for creating smooth movements and other stuff)\n* Object morphing (surfaces and bevels morph too)\n\n... And lots more that I can't remember right now...\n\nAnyway, it's not as expensive as some of the other animation/rendering\npackages. I think you can get it for around $699 from MacWarehouse.\nThey also have educational discounts...\n\nWell, hope that helps a bit.\n\nSee ya...", "Howdy all,\n\n\n\nHmm... 48 bit aye?\nWell, it beats a 32-bit design for thee sake of ellegance.\n48 bit means 16 bits per primary colour.\nThe 2^48 nr of colours is a bit misleading. It makes more sense to see it\nas 65536 possible shades of pure red.\nThis might actually make some sense, since 256 shades of red (24 bit colours) \nmay produce visible 'jumps' in intensity.\nThen again, a byte per primary colour for each pixel is the most elegant way \nof doing colour graphics, because it leaves ya such a tidy (and fast) program\ncode.\n\n\tTake care,\n\n\t\tBram", "I am looking for software to draw a graph. I want to just give it a list\nof nodes and edges between the nodes and have the program come up with some\nreasonable positioning of it. \n\nThanks in advance.", "Hello again,\n\nAbout a week and one-half ago I posted a query looking for people feelings\non the inkjet family of printers. Specifically, a comparison between the\nCanon BJ200 (BubbleJet) and the Hewlett-Packard DeskJet 500. Many people\nasked me to post the summary/account of all the postings and e-mail I\nreceived. Below is my original query and the responses I received. I have\nnot deleted any part of the responses, only the headers and signatures, so\nyou can extract what you find necessary. Some people asked me for an\nunbiased account; however, the very nature of the question suggests\nfavoritism and biased comments, you must extract the information you\nbelieve unbiased and a fair representation of each printer. There are a\nwide range of comments, each has its own value. \n\nThere was no clear winner, some like the BJ200 (especially its\nprice/performance ratio), others preferred the durability and reliability\nof the DeskJet (the original inkjet with proven drivers and a solid\nbackground). Two new inkjet printers have drawn some attention, a new\nprinter to be introduced by Hewlett-Packard later this year (around\nsummertime), and an addition to the Epson product line (their first\ninkjet). You will find that after the initial purchase, the costs of\nre-filling or replacing the ink cartridges are about the same (this largely\ndepends on where you purchase the re-fills or replacements -- so shop\naround first since this aspect will most likely dominate the cost of your\nprinter). No one mentioned approx. how many sheets each ink cartridge will\nprint, but I suspect they are roughly equal at about 1000 - 1500 sheets\n(laser printers will do 4000-5000 sheets per toner cartridge). Well,\nthat's a brief research summary of my personal research. ENJOY!\n\n===========================================================================\n\n\nWell I bought the BJ 200 about a month ago at the start of their $50 rebate\nprogram on that printer (it ends 5/31), and I bought it from Computer\nDiscount Warehouse because their price of $325 couldn't be beat anywhere I\nlooked, and I think it's a HOT printer. Just using regular copier paper\nproduced fantastic results just in high quality mode. I compared the\noutput of a Micrografx Designer legal size drawing with 4pt type done on my\nBJ 200 with the same drawing printed on an HP Laserjet IID and I was amazed\nhow well I could read the small print on the BJ 200. Printing speed was\nseveral seconds faster on the BJ 200 which is amazing considering that the\nHP has 2.5M ram installed. I measured the time from when the printer first\nindicated it was receiving data (as I used print manager in Windows).\n\nI showed the output to several people at work and one manager bought one\nimmediately for his office, and two other engineers placed their orders\ntoo. If you need CDW's phone number, it's 800-598-4239. Delivery to NY\nwas two days.\n\nGood luck!\n\n\nCraig Witkowski, CENG51@maccvm.corp.mot.com\nMotorola Communications & Electronics Inc.\nGlen Rock, NJ\n\n===========================================================================\n\nI own a Deskjet 500. Performance isn't spectacular under Windows using\nTrueType fonts but neither is the Canon from what I have seen. Quality for\nthe HP is very much dependent on paper quality - on 'standard' photo-copy\npaper the characters have slightly 'frayed' edges but on better quality\n'distinction' type paper things look better. For most applications I find\ncopy paper fine - still better than dot-matrix. Comes with a Windows\ndriver, which seems to by-pass print manager, has a few\n'intelli-fonts'which are HP scaleable fonts - probably faster than TrueType\nbut haven't really tried them out. Can get RAM & FONT cartridges but unless\nthe speed of TrueType is a problem I wouldn't bother. The RAM cartridges\ncan't be used as buffer - soft fonts only.\n\nFor graphics, i.e. BMP images etc the HP can be put into a dither mode via\nthe HP supplied Win driver. There a number of dither options such as\n'scatter', 'pattern' etc. The manual gives recommendations depending on\nthe type of image being printed. Text is not so good in this mode. Problem\narises when you have a document which contains both graphic and text. The\nrange of tones for graphic images isn't brilliant but I think that is more\nof a limitation with inkjet printers in general.\n\n\nHowever, a printer definitely worth looking at is the new inkjet from\nEpson. This printer is faster, cheaper, and capable of producing\nlaser-like quality on normal copier paper. Can't remember the model #, LX\n- something I think?\n\nI purchased my HP days before the Epson was released here :-{. The\nintroductory price on the Epson was the same as the HP here in New Zealand.\n \n===========================================================================\n\nAbout a month ago, I got a Canon BJ200. I absolutely LOVE it. It is\nincredibly fast, except for printing from PSPICE (I don't know if you ever\ndo stuff with that or not.) Most of the stuff I print is either from\nMicrosoft Word for Windows or just plain text. The only problems I've had\nare printing headers/footers (the printer freaked out), and printing on\ncheap paper (lots of streaks). Normal copy paper works great with it, you\ncan only tell it's not laser-printed by holding it, oh, less than twelve\ninches from your face. (That is, if you're nearsighted, like me! :) ) The\nprinter comes with its own driver for Windows 3.1!! I have no other\ncomplaints. The printer also can act just like some EPSON or another for\nthose archaic software packages that haven't written a driver for it yet.\nThe teeny-weeny footprint is a real plus, too--AND, if you purchase it\nbetween now and May 31, you get a $50 rebate from Canon!! I bought mine\nfrom a store called CompUSA, and the price now is $340. I have a friend\nwho has the HP you are looking at. It also prints very well, and everyone\nhas drivers for it, BUT it is VERY slow!\n\nHope I helped!\n\n(360dpi sure looks great!)\n\nHeather Stehman\n\n===========================================================================\n\n\n I guess I have some experience with both: I have a BJ-300 at work and a\nDeskjet 500 at home. I prefer the Deskjet. The printing speed and quality\nare similar (I tested both with text and graphics before buying the Deskjet\nfor home). The feature that sets the Deskjet apart is the driver support\nin so many applications. The BJ ends up emulating the Epson LQ or IBM\nProprinter to get it to work with many non-windows apps and this will be\nthe case for a long time. The design is superior if you just want to use\ncut paper, the Deskjet is quieter, AND the ink cartridges are quite a bit\ncheaper due to the number of Deskjets out there in comparision to the BJs.\n\n Just my $0.02 worth..\n\n-- \nMike Mattix\nAgricultural Group of Monsanto\nP.O. Box 174\nLuling, LA 70070\nINTERNET Address: dmmatt@bigez.monsanto.com\n\n===========================================================================\n\n Yes, there is the landscape mode printing problem, but it does not\npresent a problem in Windows as the Windows printer driver handles the\ntranslation. I actually thought of some other points after I posted the\nnote. The Deskjet has an unprintable area of approximately .5inch around\nthe paper the Bubblejet does not. You are right about the graphics\nresolutions, I tested the printers with the applications I had access to:\nWordperfect, Harvard Graphics, WinGIF, Paintshop PRO, and Paintbrush and\ncould not tell a difference. In fact one of the HP Deskjet Windows drivers\ngives you significant control over the contrast and density of the printer\nhence controlling the amount of ink you put down. The Bubblejet did not.\nI had no imaging software to test the printers with and so had no\ncomparision there. Finally, I wanted sheet feeding. In that configuration\nthe Bubblejet cost approximately $100 more than the Deskjet.\n\nI went through a pretty thorough evaluation and chose the Deskjet when I\nspent my own money. BTW, I am replacing the BJ-300 with a Deskjet 500 at\nwork this month anyway.\n\nRegards\n\nMike Mattix\nAg Group of Monsanto\nLuling, LA\n\n===========================================================================\n\nI spent some time comparing the two. We ended up getting the Bubblejet\nBJ-200 versus the HP. Our reasons were:\n\n1) The HP seemed to have worse banding than the Canon\n2) 360dpi versus 300 - we felt we could see the difference\n3) Price - Canon has a $50 rebate program going on at the moment.\n\nThe BJ-200 was our choice over the BJ-10ex - we could have 100 pages in the\nBJ-200 feeder. The BJ-10ex holds only 30 pages, I think.\n\nAs you can see, up to 100 pages on the BJ-200. We haven't done anything\nbig with the BJ, but its performance seems reasonable under Windows. I\nknow that the Microsoft BBS has a newer windows driver than comes with the\nprinter, but I don't know how it compares (also the driver included with\nthe printer is Canon's whereas I don't know where the Microsoft BBS one\ncomes from - Microsoft?)\n\nHope this helps.\n-- \nThomas V. Frauenhofer, WA2YYW\ntvf@cci.com, ...!uunet!uupsi!cci632!tvf, tvf@cs.rit.edu\nMandlebratwurst: The Meal that Eats Itself!\n\n===========================================================================\n\nAltough I'm sometimes also a salesperson (if I'm not suppost to study :-))\nI would recommend to buy the BJ200. The printing quality is a bit better,\nbut you you've got much more possiblities. Don't forget the HP engine is at\nleast 2 years on the marked, the Canon engine (witch is also used in\nother \"new\" bubblejet printers like e.g. the Epson ones) is quite recently\navailable..\n\n\nI've seen during a short demonstration (from someone who tryed to sell me\nCanon printers) 2 times the same picture, one printed with the BJ200, one\nwith the Canon, the other with the HP, and.. there was a difference in\nprinting- quality,.. The Canon was a bit better..\n\nGreetz,\n\nKris\n\n===========================================================================\n\nWhen we decided we needed quiet printers in our hospital we looked to\ninkjet printers. They have near laser quality, speed, and they are quiet.\nWe use both HP Deskjets and the Canon BJ-200s. I prefer the paper handling\nqualities of the Deskjets but I feel the Canons have superior print\nquality. The Ideal would be a Canon with a sheet feeder, however I did end\nup buying a deskjet for home use (got too good a deal). Anyway, we are\nusing Canons in high volume areas and they are holding up very well. Out\nof 15 Deskjets and 4 BJ-200s I have only had one problem with a deskjet and\nthat was taken care of very quickly by HP.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t-Nate\n\n===========================================================================\n\nWhenever I buy anything I look at what the \"experts\" say, pick out the top\nfew and then buy on whatever criteria are the most apt. I've been\nunusually flush lately (no begging letter please) and so I've done this a\nfew times including - about four months ago - with inkjet printers.\n\nI can't remember much about the process except that I read about three\nreviews of inkjets and that the 500 was always at or near the top. I\nbought the 500C because of the added dimension of colour (I intend to build\na multi- media machine at some stage and have just bought a colour scanner\ntowards that). Although I haven's used the colour thing in earnest yet I\ntried it out on a couple of Windows bitmaps and I was pleased with the\nresult.\n\nI note that even though you can now get the 550C (the one with both colour\nand mono with no need to change the cartridge), the 500C and 500 are still\nreadily available (at least in the UK). The following are my\nviews/experience:\n\n\t1.\tI don't know anything about the Canon except that I came away\n\t\tfrom reviews (and replies to a posting similar to yours) with\n\t\tthe idea that the HP offered the best performance/price ratio.\n\n\t2.\tI believe HP are the originals in the field - not always the\n\t\tideal place to be but the market's still young so one assumes\n\t\tthey have the expertise.\n\n\t3.\tThe 500C is worth the extra. Operation in mono is perfectly\n\t\tacceptable and I get good crisp reproduction of fonts from\n\t\tWindows.\n\n\t4.\tI used to work for Monotype when they still manufactured\n\t\ttypesetters (before their AMERICAN owners closed them down!)\n\t\tand I can tell you that in terms of definition 300 dpi is\n\t\tpretty poor anyway so 360 dpi is just a bit less poor...\n\n\t5.\tThe HP comes with a reasonable set of drivers.\n\n\t6.\tIf you buy it invest in the additional RAM pack - it's pretty\n\t\tslow with it, God knows what it's like without!\n\nI actually work in Germany and my PC is home in the UK so it's not in daily\nuse. I would say that apart from my not reading the manual properly and\nhaving a really dumb problem at the start it's easy peasy to operate.\n\nHope this is of use.\n\nRegards\n\nDavid\t\n\n===========================================================================\n\nJust bought the BJ-200. I thought the price couldn't be beat ($329, with\n$50 rebate thru 5/31) and so far it is comparable, even superior, to the\nDeskJet in print quality.\n\nSpeed: Per page rate seems to be faster (I don't have figures).\n I don't print long docs, though.\n\nQuality: I think the graphics quality is excellent. Print quality is\n excellent as well, unless you use small fonts and hold it up\n close; you can see a lot more \"jaggies\" than on a LaserJet.\n The 360 dpi is offset by a little less accuracy in holding the\n page/print head in place, I would imagine.\n\nLarge docs: Not room in the standard model for a whole lotta pages ...\n manual says up to 100, though. Haven't tried it.\n\nDrivers: No problems under Win3.1 yet. WinWord doesn't want to print\n the envelopes the same way the Canon does, though.\n\nKnow nothing of add-on costs.\n\n Daniel A. Hartung -- dhartung@chinet.chinet.com -- Ask me about Rotaract\n\n===========================================================================\n\n\nI just bought a BJ-200 printer a couple of days ago. I compared it to the\nsample print of an HP DeskJet 500 and knew that the HP wasn't for me. The\nBJ-200 is pretty fast and really prints with good quality. I can compare\nit with the HP LaserJet IIID PostScript and they look almost identical (\ndepending on the kind of paper). I don't have problems with the ink not\nbeing dry, it seems to dry VERY fast. Probably within a second. Since\nCanon is giving a $50 rebate until the end of May, it is really a good buy.\n\n\n---\nSean Eckton\nComputer Support Representative\nCollege of Fine Arts and Communications\n\n===========================================================================\n\nWow, it's funny you should ask this. I'm a little behind in news reading\nso I know this may be late.\n\n I just purchased the Canon Bubblejet last night. I was really worried\nthat I wouldn't like it but the print quality, and noise level is\nfantastic! I printed quite a few documents with lots of graphics and it\nprinted DAMN near laser quality. You can't tell it's not laser unless you\nget 2 inches from the page.\n\n no problems with drivers. The printer came with the driver diskette\nwhich is good because I was beginning to panic when I couldn't findi it\nunder Windows or WordPerfect. It works well under both. I have yet to\ninstall Word for Windows so don't know how it works with them.\n\n I had a DeskJet 500 at work last year. It was a good printer as well ut\nI felt it was awfully slow. And much noisier than the BubbleJet. I won't\nsay the BubbleJet is MUCH better, but I really do like it more. Just my\n$0.02 worth.\n\n-=- Brett\n===========================================================================\n\n--\nSincerely,\n\nRobert Kayman\t----\tkayman@cs.stanford.edu -or- cpa@cs.stanford.edu", "\nI recall reading a review article in PC Computing wherein they reported\na reduction in the loading time for lengthy programs using Stacker 3.0.\nThis was not due to the compression algorithm per se, but to the fact\nthat fewer fetches were required during the sequential file access. Does\nanyone have any actual performance numbers relating to speeds of Stacker\nand Dblspace?", "Auto Logic Panasonic answering machine with dual cassette system. I will\ninclude cassettes and AC power adaptor. Excellent condition. Asking $30 with\naccessories.\n", "...\n\nI think the support droid was malfunctioning and confused the disk space\nlimit with the virtual address space limit. As far as the disk is\nconcerned, you are limited only by the amount of contiguous free space.\nThe limit that causes the message, \"Windows will only use ...,\" is the\namount of virtual address space that the Virtual Memory Manager will\ncreate, and this is a function of the amount of free memory that you have\nwhen Windows starts.\n\nIn the [386enh] section of SYSTEM.INI, you can specify a parameter:\n\n\tPageOverCommit=multiplier\n\nThe following description is from the Windows Resource Kit:\n\n\tThis entry specifies the multiplier what determines the amount of\n\tlinear address space the VMM will create for the system, which is\n\tcomputed by rounding up the amount of available physical memory to\n\tthe nearest 4 MB and then multiplying that value by the value\n\tspecified for PageOverCommit=. Increasing this value increases the\n\tamount of available linear address space, causing the size of data\n\tstructures to increase. This also increases paging activity\n\tproportionately and can slow down the system. You can specify a\n\tvalue between 1 and 20. The default is 4. To change this entry,\n\tyou must edit SYSTEM.INI.\n", "[]\n\n\t\"These LPT1, COM1, disk controller are call devices. There are\n\tdevices that requires exclusive interrupt ownership, eg. disk\n\tcontroller (I6) and keyboard (I1). There are also devices that\n\tdoes not require exclusive ownership, ie. it will share an\n\tinterrupt with another device, eg. LPT1\"\n\nNo. In a standard ISA bus, the one that almost all non-laptop PCs use,\ntwo separate interface cards cannot share an interrupt. This is due to\na screwup in the bus design. For example, if your Soundblaster wants\nto drive interrupt number 7, then it must hold a certain bus wire to 0\nor 1 at all times, depending on whether or not it wants an interrupt.\nThis precludes letting another card assert interrupt number 7.\n\nWhen two or more devices in an ISA bus PC share an interrupt, it's\nbecause they're implemented by a single card.", "\nOn my 486DX-50 (really 50, not DX2), my AT bus is set to CLK/3.\n\nAt 16.67 MHz, I have no problems. Soundblaster Pro, Zoom 14.4 FXM, RLL\ncontroller, etc. All work fine.\n\nIf I set it to 2 (25 MHz), I simply don't get past the POST routines.\n\nI doubt you could actually damage much by playing with it.", "was\nto\n\n(snip!)\n\nI haven't been following this, so I'm sorry if somebody already mentioned \nthis, but you could grab a lemon (I think potatoes work too, but I'm not \nsure), a strip of copper, and a strip of zinc (I think you can get the \nmetal in a hardware store or hobby shop, maybe??). Stick the strips in \nthe lemon (so they don't touch!) and you'll get a measurable voltage (not \na lot, but, hey, it's a lemon :-) ). As I recall we had to hook \nsomething like ten of these things to get an appreciable amount of \ncurrent, because of the mondo internal resistance, but if you just need a \ndemo you might get it to run a tiny fan or something! :-)\n", "element analysis, radiosity, distributed processing\n\nHi,\n\n\tI'm looking for references to parallel algorithms on:\n\n\t\toctrees\n\t\tadaptive subdivision\n\t\tadaptive meshing\n\t\tfinite element meshing/analysis\n\t\tradiosity\n\n\tAny help will be greatly appreciated. E-mail replies to\u0018", "Does your Stealth 24 have a row of DIP switches on the back plane?\n\nIf so, you have the older Revision A board and the winmark results\nare absolutely normal. The later Revision B board benchmarks at 13\nto 15 million winmarks (at least mine does in 486DX-50 toy).", "Hello fellow humans, and other net creatures...\n \nIf you're at all interested in this merchandise, please e-mail me:\ndjk@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu\n \nI'm compacting my system and moving to a single monitor system, so I have\ntwo monitors and cards for sale. Nothing at all is wrong with these pieces,\nI'm just wanting to conserve desk space, and get all of my info from one\nscreen.\n \nI'd prefer to sell to people near Austin and surrounding areas (within\ndriving distance - like an hour away perhaps), but I CAN ship to you if you\ndon't live near here. Only problem is that I didn't keep the original boxes\nfor the monitors, but I'm confident that my few months of full-time service\nin the shipping room will enable me to safely package the monitors and\nflip it in your direction.\n \nDetails:\n \nMirror Full Page Display (monochrome) w/nubus card:\n---------------------------------------------------\n \n**SOLD**\n \nSony 1304 14\" color monitor:\n----------------------------\nWhat's to say? It got top ratings in last year's MacUser report. It's a SONY,\nTrinitron, arguably the best (but I'd rather not argue that point).\nIt's a great monitor, in great shape, but I'm going to a bigger screen,\nand although I'd like to keep it, finances don't justify it.\n \nStill selling for $599 at MacLand (where I bought it originally - not\nincluding shipping), will sell for **$475** (plus shipping). Again, make an\noffer if that sounds unreasonable.\n \n \nRasterOps 24si (24-bit accelerated, hardware zoom/pan, 4 meg RAM):\n------------------------------------------------------------------\nRenamed the 24sx a few months after I bought it, this board is for 13\"\nmonitors, providing **accelerated 24-bit**, hardware zoom/pan, NTSC mode\n(you can plug it into something like the RasterOps Video Expander and output\nNTSC), and 4 RAM slots that use 1 meg or 4 meg SIMMS for GWorld RAM, or a\nRAM disk. Software included for such functions. 4 meg of RAM included (1 meg\nSIMMS).\n \nSelling for $605 at Bottom Line (without the RAM - add $100), I'm asking\n**$525** (shipping included this time, it's just a card). Original box and\npackaging. I'd actually prefer to sell the Sony monitor and this card\ntogether, so if you want both, drop me e-mail and make a \"bundled offer\"\nfor these items.\n \n------------\n \nCheers. \n\ndan keldsen - djk@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu\n", "I wanted to know if any of you out there can recommend a good\nbook about graphics, still and animated, and in VGA/SVGA.\n\nThanks in advance\n", "\nDMorf (Dave's Morph, I think is what it means) and DTax (Dave's \nTGA Assembler) are available in the MSDOS_UPLOADS directory\non the wuarchive.\n\nThey are arjed and bundled with their respective xmemory versions,\ndmorfx.exe and dtax.exe, you can also find a version of aaplay.exe\nthere, with which you can view files you create with dta.exe or\ndtax.exe.\n\nI downloaded the whole bunch last week and have been morphing \naway the afternoons since. The programmes are all a bit buggy and\ndefinitely not-ready-to-spread-to-the-masses, but they are very\nwell written. \n\nThe interface is frustrating at first, but it gets easy once you\nfigure out the tricks.\n\nI have noticed that dmorfx will crash horribly if you try to morph\nwithout using the splines option. Not sure why, since I don't have\nthe source. I think it was written for TP 6.0.\n\nIf anyone else comes up with any other hints on getting the thing \nto work right, tell me; it took me several hours the first time\njust to figure out that if I just used the durned splines then \nit would work...\n", "\n\nThis doesn't work, due to the near-field far-field effect. You may stop\nsomeone five yards away from listening in, but someone fifty yards away will\nbe relatively unaffected - unless you pump out hundreds of watts and jam all \nthe neighbourhood TV's as well. In that case the government will stomp on you -\nask any radio ham! Democratic governments care even more about their voters' \nright to watch soap operas than they do about national security, and dictators \nconsider their propaganda to be an integral part of their national security.\n\n\n\nI'm afraid this doesn't work either. We can pick up laptop screens without any\nproblem.\n\nMost of the so-called `low radiation' monitors are also useless. The description\nturns out to a marketing assertion rather than an engineering one.\n\nWe thought there might be a market for a monitor which was not as hugely\nexpensive as the military Tempest kit, but which was well enough shielded to\nstop eavesdropping using available receivers. We built a prototype, it works,\nand it's still sitting on my lab bench. Commercial interest was exactly zero.\n\nIn the absence of open standards, a monitor which really is `low radiation'\n(and costs 500 dollars more) can't compete against a monitor which just\nclaims to be `low radiation' (and whose only extra cost of production is the\npretty blue sticker on the box).", "I'm posting this request again since the last one had no title.\n \n I'm looking for X server software on DOS or Windows.\n \n I've already seen Desqview/X and XVision but would like to be aware\n of other solutions, namely public domain or shareware implementations.\n \n I'd also like to know, in the commercial case, about possible problems,\n incompatibilities, available window managers and libraries, etc.\n \n If you have any experiences in this area please let me know.\n \n\n C U!\n \n By(e)", "The Casio 7500 lectric diary has a 3-wire serial interface with param\nsetting like RS232, for which one get a magic but expensive cable to\nconnect to a PC. Does anyone know the spec of this interface, e.g., it\nneeds inverting and boosting from CMOS signals to match RS232 lines?", "\n\n\nWe use it as starting fluid for jet ski's. The fact that its a lubricant \nworks very well since jet ski's are 2 cycle. It also helps when a ski\nfloods with water because we clean the spark plus with the stuff.\n\n\nOB sci.electronics:\n\n\nI have an office/studio in my garage with a phone in it. Our wireless phone\nhas a page feature where you can make the phone or hand set ring to get\nthe attention of the other person. Is there a simple circuit that I can use\nover the second pair of wires (or the first pair) to emulate this effect\nwith the phone in the garage? (ie push a button to make the phone ring in the\nhouse or push a button to make it ring in the garage.)\n\n\n\nThanks\n\n\nXavier\n ", "I hope that there's somebody out there that can help us.\n\nSome of our students change the AMI bios passwords on a few of our computers \nand set it for always. What we'd like to know is if there is a way to bypass \nor remove the password. We have tried switching bios, but to no avail. The \nbattery is soldered to the bord, an all three machines is still under \nguarentee so if that would have help we can't remove the batteries.\n\nThanks Isak\nIsak Venter ITBIJV@PUKNET.PUK.AC.ZA", "I don't know much about Hydrophones, so I'm looking for any information\nthat will help avoid problems I haven't thought of! I would like an \ninexpensive hydrophone and amplifier with tape (line level) outputs...\nsomething like Edmund sells for $250. They also sell just the microphone\n(hydrophone) head for $24, but how does one construct the enclosure?\nAny information would be greatly appreciated, Thanks!", "*** On 04-19-93 03:56, Juan Carlos Leon had the unmitigated gall to say this:\n\n JCL> I just got a problem, I have a cheapo 2400bps modem which I use to\n JCL> connect to my university, but I get too much garbage on the screen. I\n JCL> do know it's because the noise in the line (I can actually hear it). \n JCL> So my question is will an error correction protocol help to eliminate\n JCL> this garbage?, my modem doesn't have any of these on hardware, can a\n JCL> software implemented protocol do the trick?\n\nThere is a software version of MNP-5 available from MTEZ, and it will often\nconnect with other modems that are MNP compatible, but if the modem that you\nare connecting to doesn't support MNP then it won't help. Error correcting\nmodems will eliminate line noise, but only id there are error correcting\nmodems on both ends of the conncetion. The added soeed is much worth the\nprice of error correcting modems. 9600 baud V.42bis modems are very\nreasonable, and they are only about 15% slower than the more expensive\n14,400 modems on the market.\n\n... My hard disk is full! Maybe I'll try this message section thing.\n--- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10\n ", "Packer Bell 12MHZ 286\n * 5 16bit expansion slots\n * 2 5.25\" external drive bays (floppies)\n * 1 3.5\" internal drive bay (hard-drive)\n * 1.44MB 3.5\" floppy drive\n * 1MB of RAM\n \n$140 or Best offer (including shipping)\n \nSegate 32MB ST138N SCSI Hard-drive\n * Great shape\n * Controller\n * 32MB\n * 3.5\" format", "Hello.\n\nI have these items for sale.\n\nTerms are UPS COD or prepayment by money order.\n\n2 101 keyboards for IBM compatibles\n\n1 Mitsumi 1.2 MB 5 1/4 floppy disk drive\n\n1 Sony SRF-M30 digital AM/FM Stereo Walkman\n\nThe drive cost me $65, the keyboards were $40 each, and the Sony \nradio cost $45.\n\nI will sell for the best offers.\n\nThank You.", "\nIt works on xterms. At least I have no problem with it. - Back to the original\nquestion:\n\nI usually start new xterms by selecting the proper menu entry in my desktop\nmenu. Here is a sample command:\n\n\txterm -sl 999 -n ls12i -title ls12i -e rlogin ls12i &\n\nThe -n and -title options give the text for window and icon. As I use the\ntcsh (a wonderful extension of the csh), I can do the following:\n\nI have an\n\n\talias precmd echo -n '^[]2\\;${HOST}:$cwd^G'\n\nin my ~/.tcshrc. This is a special alias for tvtwm. It is executed each time\nbefore printing the prompt. So, I have the current host name and the current\ndirectory path in the title bar of my xterms.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n ____ \n UniDo / Ingolf Markhof University of Dortmund, LS Informatik XII \n ___/ / P.O. Box 500 500, D-4600 Dortmund 50, F.R. Germany\n \\ \\ / Phone: +49 (231) 755 6142, Fax: +49 (231) 755 6555 \n \\__\\/ Email: markhof@ls12.informatik.uni-dortmund.de \n ", "\nI just implemented this and it seems I can just about achieve the display\nrates (20 400x400x8 frames / sec on IPX) that I get with Sunview, though\nit's a bit \"choppy\" at times. Also, loading the data, making an XImage,\nthen XPut'ing it into a pixmap is a bit cumbersome, so the animation is\nslower to load than with Sunview. Is there a better way to load in the\ndata?\n\n\nShared memory PutImage (also mentioned by nkissebe@delphi.beckman.uiuc.edu,\nNick Kisseberth) looks interesting, but I need someone to point me to some\ndocumentation. Is this method likely to give better results than server-\nresident pixmaps? I'd also be interested in looking at the XView code\nmentioned above...\n\nThanks for the help so far. If I get something decent put together, I'll\ndefinitely post it to the Net.\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------", "Yes, I know it's nowhere near Christmas time, but I'm gonna loose\nNet access in a few days (maybe a week or 2 if I'm lucky), and wanted\nto post this for interested people to save 'till Xmas. :-(\nNote: Bell Labs is a good place IF you have a PhD and a good boss, I\nhave neither.\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nSubject: Xmas light set with 2 levels of brightness\n\nAnother version of a variable brightness Xmas light set:\nThis set starts with a 2 blinker 35 bulb string. \n\nDIAGRAM: orginal 2 way set\n\n120v---+--b-*-*-*-*-*-*-*--!\n !---b-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-!\n !\n120rtn_____________________!\n\nmodified set for 2 level brightness:\n\n string 1\n120v---------*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*--!\n \\_10K_______*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-!\n 5w ! string 2 !\n b ________________!\n120v rtn__!___!\n\n ^ Note: no mods to wiring to the right of this point.\n\nOnly one blinker is used.\n\nNote that the blinker would not have as much current thru it as the\nstring 1 bulbs, because of the second string of bulbs in\nparallel with it. That's why the use of the 10K 5W resistor\nhere to add extra current thru the blinker to make up for the\ncurrent shunted thru the second string while the blinker is glowing\nand the second string is not glowing. When the blinker goes open,\nthis resistor has only a slight effect on the brightness of the\nstrings, s1 slightly dimmer, s2 slightly brighter. \nOr use a 3W 120v bulb in place of the 10K resistor if you can get\none. Caution, do not replace with a standard C9 bulb, as these\ndraw too much current and burn out the blinker. C9 = approx 7W.\n\nWhat you'll see when it's working: powerup, string 1 will light \nat full brightness, and b will be lit, bypassing most of the current \nfrom the second string, making them not light. b will open, placing \nboth strings in series, making the string that was out to glow at a \nlow brightness, and the other string that was on before to glow \nat reduced brightness. ", "\n\nI think it's simply because DOS doesn't use the IRQ for anything. OS/2 does,\nso with that you can't share the IRQ.\n\nAnssi\n\n", "A simple question to all the Xperts:\n\nIs it possible to use several X-Terminals\nwith only one mouse and one keyboard?\n\nAny suggestions?\n\nThanks, rainer.\n", "\n What you need is a hardware router such as EtherRoute/TCP made by\nCompatable Systems ($1400). This will allow you to connect your Localtalk\nnetwork (4 Macs) to your Ethernet network (NeXT and Ethernet Mac). It will\nroute TCP/IP protocol between the two networks. Software routers are also\navailable for less money, but I'm not sure if they work with TCP/IP.", "We've just recently upgraded our X11 to R5 and are now running into problems\nwith some of our applications that use Motif 1.1. It appears that pointer to\nthe widget being passed to the callback function (i.e., the \"w\" of\n(w, client, call) ) is nil. The client and call pointers are okay in some\ninstances, but bogus in other instances.\n\nWe are running SunOS 4.1.2 on a Sun 4. After compiling X11R5 and all 23\npatches (with the MotifBC flag set), we recompiled Motif and then we \nrecompiled the application.\n\nDid we skip a step or leave something out? Is there a flag that we should\nhave used? Should we have left Motif alone?\n\nAny answers or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.\n\nThanks\nKathy", "How do you set up an app to give its window a default start up\nposition and size?", "I posted almost the same bad experience with Midwest Micro but our\n%^*^&*^&* news program only sent one paragraph out of the middle. In\naddition to the facts that:\n(a) the modems (I had ordered two) wouldn't work as documented\nand\n(b) the tech person had NO CLUE as to how it should work,\nit also turned out that:\n(c) one of the two modems they sent was clearly USED but the techs\nthought that was standard practice and\n(d) the modems made all three of my floppy drives quit working and\nmy CMS250 tape drive start running away.\n\nThat they are incompetent is one thing, but that they sell used stuff\nas new and won't even apologize for it is another. Stay away from\nthese crooks!", "^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nI think you're deliberatly overstating the requirements for OS/2. \nConsidering that OS/2 is a multi-threaded true multitasking OS and\ntakes the place of DOS and Windows and more, I actually think the \nrequirements for OS/2 are very reasoable. I also think that anyone\nusing Windows 3.1 without 8 megs of RAM, a 386-40, and 200 megs of\nhard drive space, is beating their head against a wall. Those are\nalso legitimate requirements for OS/2. In fact, the requirements \nfor Windows 3.1 and OS/2 are about equal. \n ", "I am writing a X-based dosemu which requires XKeyReleasedEvent. \nI found the keycode of XKeyReleasedEvent is wrong. If I run the program on\na Linux host(XFree1.2) with DISPLAY set to the local Linux and to\nthe Sun host (X11R5), the two keycodes from the two Xservers are different. \nOf course, the keycode of XKeyPressedEvent is O.K.\n\nCan anybody verify this ? Did I do anything wrong ? \n\t\nThanks.\n", "I have a 386DX clone, with a DTC ESDI controller and Toshiba 660\nmbyte\ndrive. Since installing DOS 6.0, when I tried to re-install software\nfrom\n5 1/4 or 3 1/2 disks, when I mount the second..third..fourth disks, DOS\n6\ndoesn't recognize that I have changed floppies. If I do a \"DIR\", I see\nthe\ncontents of the previous diskette. The only way to get DOS to recognize\nthat\ndiskettes have changed, is to do a \"label\", and then to not label them.\n\n Buying DOS 6.0 has been a colossal mistake. DOS 5.0 was stable, and\nworked\nwell with my equipment. I have Superstor Pro, and DESQVIEW/X ( with\nQEMM, \nManifest, etc), so there aren't any features of DOS 6 that I am using. I\nguess\nI should roll back to DOS 5.0 but I am wary of what will happen when I\ndo it.\n\n Besides, like a fool, I don't have a DOS 5. bootable disk anymore.\nI've\nmade the same mistakes I caution my users not to make. Like sheep, I\njoined \nthe crowd flocking to DOS 6. Baaa Baaad system administrator.", "\n\nYes only your $00.02. Here's mine.\n\nIf I were running at a new chip at a Trade show, and had little to no real\ntechnical knowledge, I wouldn't let some stranger with a diskette boot my demo\nmachine. If the demo machine is down too long people will not see my nice\ndemos, and if this purposted LINUX diskette is really something that will wipe\nthe disk, or is loaded with a VIRUS!, I'm in deep trouble.\n\nNo marketer in their right mind would let you do this, unless they had\nspecifically invited people to do so, and provided machines to do it with.\n\nWe can we learn : This technology will be shipping from PC vendors in May 1993,\nand will be i486 compatible.\n", "\nWell, GIF stands for Graphics Interchange Format and was put forth by\nCompuserve back in 1987(?) or so. It was to create a format that could be\nread and displayed by any system. GIF is limited to 8 bit color but has\na built in compression scheme (LZW?).\n\nIFF is not really a graphics format, but rather a standard way to package\nimages, sounds, animations, text, or whatever into one file. IFF was\ncreated by Electronic Arts, I do believe (I could be wrong), for the Amiga.\nIt was quickly adopted as pretty much the standard file format for the Amiga.\nThe most common image format for the IFF package is an ILBM (InterLeaved\nBitMap?) but many others exist. This format supports 24 bit color images.\n\nInformation on both of these and many more are available via anonymous ftp at\nzamenhof.cs.rice.edu in the directory /pub/graphics.formats\n(Taken from the FAQ for this news group.) :)", "\nTheir phone number is 1-800-377-9777. The last catalog shows three \nOaks jerseys: 36 Home, 42 Home, 39 Home - they're each $165.00. All their\nmerchandise is handmade and is an authentic replica. I own a couple -\nand they are excellent. They also have wool caps and jackets. You should\ncall to get on their mailing list even if you can't afford their prices.", "$6.95 each. add $1.05 for postage (4th class), that makes it $8.\nAll these 5 discs are still shrink wrapped", "\nWouldn't a a second monitor of similar type scrolling gibberish and adjacent\nto the one being used provide reasonable resistance to tempest attacks?", "I have 5 full reels of Ampex 456 2\" recording tape. This tape was\nused once at 15 ips and carefully stored. All reel include an Ampex tape\nband. The tape has not been bulk erased to my knowledge. The history of\nthe tape in know and available upon request. JMAR in Toronto sells new\n2\" 456 for $260+tax (Canadian) I would like $100CDN/reel which will include\npostage.\n\nBrett Maraldo\n- Plexus Productions\n\nps. The reels are 2500' long; standard thickness.\n\n", "\n\n\nYou're not going to like this, but if memory serves me, postings\nI've read in this newsgroup and elsewhere indicate that there are\nno, repeat no, internal modems for the Duo besides the Express\nModem... at _any_ speed. Something having to do with the modem\nusing the main CPU for some of its tasks, and Apple not releasing\ndetails on the architecture, or something. I'm vague on the\ndetails, but the gist was that there are going to be no\nthird-party internal Duo modems. If I'm wrong, somebody please\ncorrect me on this. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.\n\nJoel\n", "For those of you looking for information on MS-DOS 6.0's\nfile system compression API:\n\nToday I called Microsoft's DOS 6.0 hotline at (800)228-7007.\nThey told me that the DOS 6.0 Resource Kit had the specifications\nfor the compression interface. The Resource Kit costs $19.95,\nplus tax and $5 shipping.\n\nI ordered a copy and will post further when I get it and know more\nabout it. I am posting now because the order turnaround is 15 \nworking days. \n\nIf anyone knows for sure where's there's a good\nsource of info on this API, please speak up. I am \nslightly skeptical about the Resource Kit's likelihood\nof having detailed programming info.\n\nMark R. mrr@ripem.msu.edu", "Hi, I bought a while ago a Cache Card w/ FPU from Techworks. It was 219$.\nI think that was the cheapest I ever saw.", "I recently got a Centris 610 4/230 on my desk. It's a vast improvement on\nmy previous machine (a IIsi 5/40). However .....\n\nI've encountered a problem with fonts ..\n\nEntries in a Filemaker 2.0 database which looked fine when printed from my\nprevious mac using System 7.01 now look wierd !\n\nSpacing between characters has increased greatly - causing lines to be\ntruncated. I'm using plain and bold Helvetica in various sizes - the\nincrease in character spacing seems to occur for all sizes and styles. \n\nI'm using a mixture of TrueType and Fixed-Size fonts - exactly as on my\nIIsi - when things worked perfectly.\n\nWe've managed to get similar behaviour using Word 5.1.\n\nApple UK adopted their usual \"friendly\" approach and told us to call our\nlocal dealer - God help us !!\n\nAny ideas ??\n\n\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nDr Pete Edwards\n\nDepartment of Computing Science \nKing's College\nUniversity of Aberdeen Tel. +44 (0)224 272270/96\nAberdeen, AB9 2UE Fax +44 (0)224 273422\nSCOTLAND Email pedwards@csd.abdn.ac.uk\n\nARTIFICIAL FLOWERS: Pieces of plastic and metal, crudely fashioned to\n bear a limited, superficial resemblance to real flowers, but with no\n credible attempt to match their internal complexity in terms of form,\n function, or behavior.\n\nARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE: Really smart computers.", "For Sale:\n\nMinolta Master Series-C50 VHS-C Camcorder Forsale\n-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-\n\n Multidimensional Autofocus System\n 6x power zoom\n Charge coupled device\n Dual-area autoexposure system (for backlit subjects)\n High-speed digital shutter 1/1000 sec\n Dual Mode Self Timer\n Date/time insert\n Linear tape counter\n Power focus\n Advanced Auto white balance system\n MIC jack, DC OUT, REMOTE connector, earphone minijack\n\n Excellent condition, used several times in two years\n Original box and packing\n AC Adapter/Charger VAC-500U\n One standard VBP-500 (60 min)\n One extra VBP-501 (80 min)\n Cassette Adapter AD-2 (for full size VHS viewing)\n bunch of miscellaneous extras (RF adapter,cords, etc)\n\n Available immediately\n\n Price $550.00 US firm\n\n Shipping extra\n\nPlease email responses to:", "I have a DFI Handy Scanner Model HS-3000Plus and a little bit of\nsoftware running under dos to use it. I'd like to make more extensive\nuse of this device (in particular, write a driver for it on unix).\n\nSo, can anyone give me a description of how to talk to this device. It\nconnects to the system via it's own interface card.\n\nAny info would help, it can't be too difficult to talk to :-)", "There was a recent post about a BBS where you could download a replacement\nfor comm.drv (Win 3.x) that fixed a lot of the problems with high-speed \nmodems. Does anyone know of an ftp site where I can get it?\n\nThanks,\n\nAlec Lee", "Sigha.\n \n 1) Trying to figure out a way to put a halogen beam on my CB360T... Are \nthere any easy ways to do this (i.e. a \"slip-in\" bulb replacement)?\n \n 2) Was told by a guy at the bike shop that my \"not damn near bright enough\" \nincandescent beam might be caused by a perma-low battery. So I went and \npicked up this cheapo \"Motorcycle battery and charging system tester\"... \nHook it up to the battery, it's got 3 lights on \"Very good charge\"... Start \nthe engine (to test the charging system), and it doesn't even REGISTER. It's \nsupposed to light 5 or 6 lights if everything is OK, but it stays down at \nthe same point as just the battery.\n \n My question here is, if indeed my charging system is just plain messed up, \nhow the HECK is the battery staying fully charged? I'd think it would be \ndarned near dead from supporting my lights, etc...\n \n Do the '75 CB360T's have a problem with their charging system? Are they \njust generally slower charging than what is normal for bigger bikes?\n \n Is there an easy fix for this?\n \n 3) Happy noise: Put 300 miles on my bike this weekend, finally got myass an \nendorsement.... which is REALLY GOOD, because my cage just quit running \nworth a damn and I won't have money to repair it until the first... ;) And \nthe weatherman says \"Bright and Sunny all week, 20% chance of rain on \nfriday\"...", "Heise model 710A pressure meter. This is a precision 4-1/2\ndigit meter measuring 0 - 15 PSI (absolute) in .001 psi\nincrements. Case is in extremely good shape, and can be used\nas a stand-alone meter or panel mounted. Brass fitting (looks\nlike standard 3/8\") on back. Operates from 110 VAC.\n\nI'd like $50 for it, or make an offer. It is a lot more useful to\na lab than as an ersatz barometer, which is what I've been using\nit for.\n\n-- \n--------------------------------------------------------------------\n Dave Medin\t\t\tPhone:\t(205) 730-3169 (w)\n SSD--Networking\t\t\t\t(205) 837-1174 (h)\n Intergraph Corp.\n M/S GD3004 \t\tInternet: dtmedin@catbyte.b30.ingr.com\n Huntsville, AL 35894\t\tUUCP: ...uunet!ingr!b30!catbyte!dtmedin\n\n ******* Everywhere You Look (at least around my office) *******", "\nHuh? If I buy a 128M optical, I might lose my friends? Why - do they\nsmell bad?\n\n:-)\n\n\n\nOn a serious note, I have heard the tales about SyQuest failures. But I\nam curious about Jon's comments on cartridge wear for the the Bernoullis.\nCan someone elaborate? Is there a general consensus that the 128M opticals\nare the most reliable? I am mostly concerned about media failures, as\nopposed to drive mechanism failures.", "\nAre you sure you want to do that? If a win app locks up for some reason, \nctrl-alt-del may be the only way to kill the app and get back to Windows. \nGranted it doesn't work all that often but it has come in handy on occasion.\nI consider it pretty carefully before I disabled that keystroke. Just a \nthought.", "I'm looking for a PC that is small and doesn't break apart if you drop\nit on the groud. \nIt doesn't have to have graphics, text only will do\njust fine. It doesn't have to be fast either, 8086 will do, I hope.\nBut you must stand a pretty hard enviroment without breaking apart,\njumnping on it or trying to use it outdoor while it is raining and so\nforth. I need 640Kb of memory and a convinient way of loading\napplications into it that I wrote myself (floppy or somekind of\nwriteable cartridge?). \n\nIs there a PC like that?? And where can I get more info?\nI know of the Atari portfolio but it can't stand the rain....\n", " Does anyone know how to convert a targa or similar 24 bit picture into a list\n of R G B values and then convert back to targa after doing operations on the p\nixels R G B codes.\nex. Targa ---->000100255pixel 1\n001200201pixel 2etc....\nIf no one can help me with this could someone explain how the 24 bit data is st\nored in the targa file and also how its stored in the 8 bit targas. Thanks\n", "\nBen,\n\nSince you're obviously adept enough to understand how the trackball works,\nthe only thing short of repairing it that I can think of is a thorough\ncleaning of all the parts, and then checking for the proper placement of\nthe little blue rollers. Since they aren't fixed in position on their\nstainless steel pins, you might try sliding them into a slightly different\nposition. On my PowerBook 100, I can slide them almost completely out of\ncontact with the trackball. In fact, one of the notes from sumex on fixing\nthe trackball advocates sliding the roller so that its _edge_ contacts the\nball, not the center cylindrical area.\n\nI've done this with my PB100, and it does seem to improve the feel, but\nneeds to be adjusted from time to time. I just popped open one of our\noffice's PB170s, and while there isn't as much latitude for movement, one\ncould still adjust the roller slightly. If your PB140 is the same it might\nhelp.\n\nI would suspect the most likely culprit to be a slippery blue roller. If\nyou can take it out, clean it with a mild soapy solution, or isopropyl \nalcohol. Also, be sure the ball is grease-free.\n\nIf you drop the ball in minus the retaining ring, roll the ball and see\nif it is actually causing the axle to spin. \n\nIf all this still doesn't solve it, then maybe a new one is in order. :-(\nIt could be an electrical connection, in which case replacement would be\nnecessary. But my experience with both mice and trackballs has been that\ndirt has been the normal problem, not an electrical malfunction.\n\nHope this helps,\n\nMurray\n \n", "I have a question regarding the processing of program arguments\nsuch as the -geometry option. Since this is a standard X option, \nI'm wondering wether I have to parse it manually or whether there\nis some predefined function that will do this for me?", "/ hpcc01:comp.dcom.modems / bourman@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Bob Bourman) / 8:59 am Apr 27, 1993 /\n/ hpcc01:comp.dcom.modems / bourman@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Bob Bourman) / 8:51 am Apr 27, 1993 /\nFor Sale\n12KBps \nMicrocom MicroPorte 1042 pocket modem\nNew List Price $895\n\nRechargeable battery pack (in modem)\nAuto logon, Password security, UUCP and Kermit support, remote access\nDTLA cellular connection, MNP2-4, V.42 & MNP10 error correction\nMNP5 & V.42bis data compression\nBell 103,212A,V.22,V.22bis & Microcom Turbo Mode\n19,200 DTE & 12,000bps DCE speed\n9 & 25 pin adapter cable & AC power transformer\n\n\nMake Offer (>$200)\nBob Bourman\n(415) 857-8409\nE-Mail bourman@corp.hp.com\n\n\n----------\n", "\nWhy can't he record it legally? It may not be admissable in court, but\nrecording for personal use is legal. If he wants to play it for his ham\nfriend, that's legal too, as long as he doesn't charge admission.\n\n\nHere, Here!\n\nIt doesn't actually have to be 1500 watts at 100 feet. I've heard radio\ntransmissions from concert security over guitar amps with no guitar plugged\nin, and security uses radios transmitting 2-5 watts into a rubber duck antenna,\nwhich acts more like a dummy load than an antenna.\n\nHey Bill, where were you three weeks ago when all this stuff was posted\nand dealt with?", "OK...I've heard rumors about this...I might have even seen it in a few places.\nAnd I'd like some info...Is it possible to embed fonts in a document (Like \nWrite, Word, or Ami Pro?) so the file can be printed on another machine that\ndoesn't have the font? If possible, how is it done?\n\nI'm sorry if this is a faq...I couldn't find a faq list...I would also \napreciate knowing where that is...if a windows faq exsists.\n\nThanks in advance\n\n", "Does anyone have a pair of Sega 3-d glasses they're willing\nto part with? Or know of anywhere to acquire a pair, as they don't have \nthem around here!!!\n \n Thanks.\n \n \n _________________________________________________\n Inspiration | ___ |\n comes to | \\ o baden@sys6626.bison.mb.ca |\n those who | ( ^ ) baden@inqmind.bison.mb.ca |\n seek the | /-\\ =] Baden de Bari [= |\n unknown. | |", "\nHmm - I don't think you and I are thinking of the same thing. I was the\noriginal poster, BTW. The accelerator that I'm talking about almost\ncertainly uses a 68HC000, according to the footnotes in the Supra ad. It\nonly costs $199 list, so I really doubt if it has a 28 MHz 68030 inside.\n\nIt's called the Supra 28, or Supra Turbo 28.\nThere's an external A500 model, and an internal A2000 model.\n\nBTW, does anyone know if a 28Mhz 68HC010 exists?\n--\nGriff Miller > Griff.Miller@waii.com < use this for email.\n\n *** My opinions are mine, not Western's. ***", "\n\ncode deleted...\n\n\n XmNverifyBell\n\n Specifies whether a bell will sound when an action is reversed\n during a verification callback.\n\nYou are setting doit to false in the callback, and Text[Field] is beeping\nas it should. To turn off this behavior, set this boolean resource to false.", "I'm still looking for Fractint drivers or a new release which supports the\n 24bit color mode of the Diamond Speedstar 24X. There are some 2, 4 and 26\n million colros drivers, but none work with the 24X. \n\nAny help would be appreciated!\n\nThanks!\n\nChad\n\n", "I just thought I would pass along my experience with APS. I recently ordered\n an external Quantum 240. The salesperson was friendly and knowledgeable, the\n order came when promised, and the invoice was at the price quoted. \n\n Installing the drive was simple; I didn't even have to read the manual. The\n SCSI address is set by a pushbutton arrangement. I daisy-chained the drive\n from my Syquest (also from APS) and booted up with no problems. \n\n I'm still going through all the shareware that comes on the drive. It's a\n pretty good assortment.\n\n The drive/fan is a bit noisier than I would like, but I think it'll be OK.\n The speed seems very good, although I haven't run any objective tests. It\n also seems to spin up pretty quickly; I can hit the power switch for it, and\n almost immediately power the Mac without any problems booting from the drive.\n\n Some observations: the case is plastic (good quality, though) while my older\n Syquest case is metal. There is one LED, which is normally green, and\n flickers red as the drive is accessed.\n\n Just a data point,\n Rich", "I have the need for displaying 2 1/2 D surfaces under X, using only\nXlib, Xt and Xm. Does anyone know of a package, available on internet,\nwhich will be able to do the work?\n\n I am looking for a STAND-ALONE package providing similar functions\nto \"xprism3\" available with Khoros, but without the numerous libraries\nrequired for it. I want to be able to recompile it and run it on\nvarious platforms, from SGIs to i486s (UNIX).\n\n Any help will be appreciated.\n", "\n\n\nAre we talking about an xterm which would accept the same escape sequences\nas that for VT340 (or colour decterm/dxterm)? I thought that was called\ncolxterm (and my testing of it shows some oddities that might be bugs or\nmight be my program going wrong).", "\nThe P&G pots are very good. The Alps ones are usually carried by\nthe same folks who run the Audio Amateur magazine. ", "Hello, recently I have been printing out a lot of files on school's laser printer and feeling guilty about it. Please help me by showing me where to get a post script viewer for X-windows. Thank you for your help.\n\n\n\n", "\n\n\nTry to run Xsun under truss(1).\n\n\tThe best way to do this is by logging in over the network\n\tand typing:\n\n\ttruss -t open Xsun\n\nopen(\"/opt/X11R5/lib/X11/fonts/misc/fonts.dir\", O_RDONLY, 0666) = 8\nopen(\"/opt/X11R5/lib/X11/fonts/misc/fonts.alias\", O_RDONLY, 0666) = 8\nopen(\"/opt/X11R5/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo/fonts.dir\", O_RDONLY, 0666) = 8\nopen(\"/opt/X11R5/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo/fonts.alias\", O_RDONLY, 0666) Err#2 ENOENT\nopen(\"/opt/X11R5/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/fonts.dir\", O_RDONLY, 0666) = 8\nopen(\"/opt/X11R5/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/fonts.alias\", O_RDONLY, 0666) = 8\nopen(\"/opt/X11R5/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/fonts.dir\", O_RDONLY, 0666) = 8\nopen(\"/opt/X11R5/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/fonts.alias\", O_RDONLY, 0666) = 8\nopen(\"/opt/X11R5/lib/X11/fonts/misc/6x13.pcf\", O_RDONLY, 0666) = 8\nopen(\"/opt/X11R5/lib/X11/fonts/misc/cursor.pcf\", O_RDONLY, 0666) = 8\n\nThis will give you and idea of where Xsun things the fonts should be.\n\nIf you have defined a project root and done a make install, everything\nshould have gone right by default, even without symbolic links.", "Hi, can anyone tell me what Microsoft BBS number is ? I tried the one\nthat is given on the DOS 6 upgrade manual but that number never\nanswered the call ...", "@EID:B486 85210000\nI have a 120 mb hard drive. What should I set the compression ratio at\nusing DOS'S double disk? Do I have to format erase everything to double\nthe full 120 mb to 240? Can I just make a mirror of my hard drive? Thanx\n4 the help!\n\nDarren Lavallee\n", "Internal DOS commands (certainly 3.3 and before) do not set the exit\ncode. This is a royal pain if you want to do anything which checks for\nsuccessful deletions etc. The best suggestion is to use 4dos which\ndoes return you exit codes. It also has move command,\n\n\tSimon.\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nSimon Rowe, srowe@fulcrum.co.uk\nFulcrum Communications Ltd,\nBirmingham,\t\t\t Condition \"BRAIN_OVERLOAD$\" raised at\nENGLAND.\t\t\t\t 5412(0)/12234", "Is Impulse shipping IMAGINE for the PC386/486? How close is it to the\nAmiga's IMAGINE 2.0, in terms of features?", "I'm quite familiar with a variety of window title *setting* methods.\n\nMy question is... Is there any way (via Resources, etc) to stop an\napplication's ability to re-name it's own Name / IconName properties?\n\n...who cares if it's not 'nice' to the application -\n\n\tI WANT CONTROL! ;-)\n\n-Mike\n", "[Most info regarding dangers of reading from Floppy disks omitted]\n\nIn all fairness, how many people do you know personally who read images\nfrom Floppy drives? I haven't tried it with JPEGs, but I do realize how\nagonizingly slow it is with GIF files. ", "\n\nOr, _documentation_ for the program ;-). A lot of shareware out there is \nvery similar in the approach - send in your money, and you get \ndocumentation, and a free upgrade to the latest version. Perhaps even \nsupport of some small degree. Whatever you want to offer that is \"better\" \nthan the circulating version.\n\n\nFigure about 50%, as I have seen.\n\n\nIt doesn't really hurt legit users. Shareware is still much cheaper than \nthe alternatives.\n\n ----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n ---------Visit the SOUNDING BOARD BBS +1 214 596 2915, a Wildcat! BBS-------\n\n ObDis: All opinions are specifically disclaimed. No one is responsible.", "would there be any problems with hooking up a Toshiba 3401 external CD-ROM\ndrive to a 700?\n\n\nRon\n\n", "Is it possible to run an MIT R5 based Xserver on a Sun with a Rasterops TC\nColorboard (24bit board)? I have the Xsun24 patches for supporting sun's\n24bit frame buffers but does the rasterops appear as if its a cgtwelve or\nsomething else? I know nothing about the rasterops other than we might be\nbuying one to put in an IPX.", "Tektronix 453 scope for sale:\n\n - 50MHz bandwidth\n - portable (NOT one of the 5xx series boatanchors! :^)\n - delayed sweep\n - works fine\n - I don't have the manual (they are available from various places)\n - no probes\n\n - $275 + shipping\n\nEmail me for more info...\n\nRegards,\nKeith\n", "\n\nNot very -- you just type \"xloadimage\" or \"getx11\" instead of \"xv\".\n-- ", "Has anybody ever heard of Hawk EISA/VLB motherboards? NET Computers\nInternational (from Computer Shopper) has the 486/33 version w/256k\ncache for $559. I'm trying to decide between this motherboard and the\nNICE motherboard. Thanks!\n\n PS: The Hawk motherboard has 3 EISA slots, two of which are VLB. The\nspec sounds identical to the Nice.", "Does XDM work with DECnet? I have an Ultrix machine running both TCP/IP\nand DECnet. I have a number of X-terminals hanging off the Ultrix host also\nrunning TCP/IP and DECnet. Presently I am using XDM for the login procedure\non the X-terminals using TCP/IP. Since XDM is basically just an X-windows\nclient, shouldn't I be able to run XDM on the DECnet protocol tower as well?", "\n\n I've been using the Build59 drivers on a GW2K 4DX2-66V for several\nweeks with no problems. I'm running Windows in 1024x758 and all software\nI've run has worked fine. This includes many games and the CD-based \nmulti-media encyclopedia, on which the full-motion video works fine.\nI'd recommend you give them a try.\n\n\n-- John\n\n\n", "Greetings. I received a reply stating that unless someone else\n\tconfirms that the following company is operating, I should\n\tremove it from my lst:\n\n\t\n\tThis is from the COMM_PCB.FAQ (commercial PCB makers).\n\n\tAlso, I don't have time to get the FAQ onto the sci.answers\n\tbecause of what I like to refer to is \"red tape\" - after the\n\tfinals, I'll see what I can do... in the mean-time, anyone know\n\tof an FTP site that wouldn't mind a 250K file? :-)\n\n\tAnd last, I have some new entries for the SIMUSOFT list (mostly\n\tcommercial/institutional stuff) but was wondering: should I keep\n\tthe restrictions on the price of the software to be considered ->\n\tunder $600 or should I include all those in 4 digit prices also?\n\n\tTake care.", "Yes, I know this is not Rec.music, (as someone has already pointed out, thanks I know that), I'm trying to get a random sample and also I'm desperate for respones.\nSo please, don't mail me complaining that it doesn't belong here or that it is wasting bandwidth. \nThis affects EVERYBODY not just readers of music groups. Please either complete the survey, or hit 'n', because I'll just bounce back complaints.\n\nThank you\n-Matt\n\n\n", "For sale, or trade some combination for 286-16 motherboard or 2400 v.42bis\n\nMonochrome monitor, pretty generic, for IBM.\n\n8088 motherboard, 7 Mhz, built in monochrome and color support, built in\nserial and parallel ports. Stick it in a robot, use it to make a cheap\nterminal, whatever.\n\n5.25\" internal Low density disk drive.\n\n1200 baud external modem, practical peripherals.\n\nMake me an offer. oR suggest a trade for whatever you have.\n\n\n\n\nLibertarian, atheist, semi-anarchal Techno-Rat.", "\n\n That's the current rumor that was started by MacWEEK last month.\n\n\n How else would you accomplish this kind of an upgrade?\n\n\n Of course. This is Apple we are talking about here.", "We are having problems with a bunch of SE/30's in one of our Labs. The\nfault is that the machines either bomb or freeze when attempting to write to\ntheir internal floppies. The internal floppies have been tested on their own\nand are fine, which means that it is a main board fault. The machines all come\nfrom the same batch.\n\n The date code on the back of the machines is December 1990.\n\n 1. Do you own a machine from this batch.\n\n\t2. Has any user had experience with this fault.\n\n 3. Was it a warranty repair.\n\n\nAny feedback would be appreciated and I will post the results to the net.\n\n Bill", "I have the following items for sale.\n\nRabbit PIP tuner\nSoloFlex-like gym\nScanner (800 Mhz)\nCB Antenna\nBlazer/Jimmy running boards\n\n----\nRabbit PIP (picture-in-picture) Box.\n\nThis device when used with a VCR tuner will allow you to\nhave a second channel popped up on any corner of the screen.\nThe you can press SWAP on the remote and the small picture\nwill be swapped with the main picture.\n\nThe only limitation to this box is that it is has 36 channel\ntuner. This means that the box itself cannot tune higher\nthan cable channel 36. However, if your VCR tuner is capable\nof tuning higher than this, then you simply tune the VCR to the\nchannel desired and then swap pictures (assuming the alternate\npicture is channel 36 or lower) and it will work fine.\n\nOriginal cost: $149\nWill sell for: $75\n\n\n----\nRunning boards for Jimmy or Blazer\n\nBrand new black running boards for the S10/15 models. I purchased them\nand realized that I could not use (after return period expired) them \nbecause of wheel trim that I have installed on my vehicle. \n\nOriginal cost: $125\nWill sell for: $ 65\n\n----\nRegency MX4200 20-Channel Scanner\nRecieves cellular frequencies (800-950 mhz) along\nwith 7 other bands. Brand new Ni-Cad battery pack.\n\nOriginal Cost: $249\nWill sell for: $135\n\n----\nGYN/Plex model 2000 workout Gym, similar to Solo-Flex \n\nThis gym is similar to Solo-Flex in that it uses resistance\nbands to increase the effective lifting weight. It is all black \nand made of steel. I have an extra set of bands that I purchased \nthat will be included.\n\nOriginal cost: $349\nWill sell for: $125\n\n----\nBig Stick CB Antenna for 27 Mhz band.\n\nWill sell for: $30\n\nBecause of weight or or other difficulty, last 2 items \nfor Atlanta area only please.\n\nI will share non-COD shipping charges. \n\nThanks\n\nManny\n\n", "\n\nNo.\n\n\nNo.\n\n\nNo, but...\n\nYou can allocate real static data within code segments!\nWhen you need more dynamic memory you can allocate data on the global heap.\n\nYou can forget most of what was written about memory management. Under 3.1\nyou have paged virtual memory. You can lock every block without hampering\nthe memory manager. You can use far pointer everytime without always Lock/\nUnlocking the memory block.\n\nAn besides: DLL's are mostly just disguised EXE's, that happen to be called\nby another task.\n\n\nKarl.\n", ": Please don't ask questions like \"why don't you buy a soundblaster\". The\n: answer is simple \"Overpriced considering the sound quality\".", "I have a Bronica SQA medium format camera for sale. Includes 2 lenses, 1 film\nback, and a view finder. $2.200.00 firm. Contact me via E-mail for info.\n\n", "\ncode deleted...\n\nFrom the XmTextField man page (during discussion of resources):\n\n XmNverifyBell\n\n Specifies whether a bell will sound when an action is reversed\n during a verification callback.\n\nYou are setting doit to false in the callback, and Text[Field] is beeping\nas it should. To turn off this behavior, set this boolean resource to false.", "I recently installed dos 5.0 on a few machines, and the users \nclaim that when they use the mouse often, the screen will blank, and\nthe machine will lock up.\n\nThere are no viruses, they are not running any TSR's.\n(the mouse is a logitec 2 button)\n\nAnybody got any ideas?\n\nthanks", "\nThe sensitivity is changed using the /S, /V, or /H parameter. \nThe commands do the following:\n/V - vertical sensitivity\n/H - horizontal sensitivity\n/S - both \n\nFollow the parameter with a number from 1 to 100 (1 - slowest, 100-fastest).\nThe default is 50. You can type the command \"mouse /S75\" right from the\nkeyboard or add it to autoexec.bat.", "\n\tHave the feds shut down the people making Sound Blaster? What\nabout Apple and NeXT? Apple, NeXT, Sun, and others make systems that\ncan handle CD-quality audio in and out, and can perform arbitrary\ntransformation on it in the process of transmitting it across a network\nor modem.\n\n\tPerhaps there's a market for a portable vocoder. Not a crypto\ndevice, simply an RS232<->voice converter. Make it capable of recording\nspeech and playing it back simultaneously. It has applications for\nmultimedia, computing for the handicapped, Internet Talk Radio, IRC,\netc, etc, etc. It wouldn't be a cryptographic device at all - but I\nsuppose someone could have it hooked to a 486 laptop with a V.32bis\nmodem and some crypto software. I'd market the thing with an API for\ntext-to-speech using simple phonemes and the ability to use speech\nsamples. And, of course, I'd publish the interface to it so other\nfolks could write any applications they wanted to talk to the thing.", "Since electrical wiring questions do turn up from time to time on\nsci.electronics (and the answers aren't always apparent, even to those skilled\nin electronics), I am hijacking the following FAQ and posting a copy here. \nI've asked the writers to cross-post to sci.electronics in the future. \n\n\t--- jeh@cmkrnl.com\n\n\nX-NEWS: cmkrnl news.answers: 6685\nNewsgroups: misc.consumers.house,rec.woodworking,news.answers,misc.answers,rec.answers\nSubject: Electrical Wiring FAQ\nMessage-ID: \nFrom: clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis)\nDate: 4 Apr 93 05:21:49 GMT\nReply-To: wirefaq@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Wiring FAQ commentary reception)\nFollowup-To: poster\nExpires: 2 May 93 05:21:31 GMT\nOrganization: Elegant Communications Inc., Ottawa, Canada\nSummary: A series of questions and answers about house wiring\nSupersedes: \nLines: 1524\n\nArchive-name: electrical-wiring\nLast-modified: Sun Feb 21 16:56:10 EST 1993\n\n\t Frequently Asked Questions on Electrical Wiring\n\n\t\tSteven Bellovin (smb@ulysses.att.com)\n\t\tChris Lewis (clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca)\n\n\t Comments to (automatic if you reply to this article):\n\t\t wirefaq@ferret.ocunix.on.ca\n\nThis FAQ is formatted as a digest. Most news readers can\nskip from one question to the next by pressing ^G.\n\nAnswers to many other topics related to houses can be obtained from\nthe misc.consumers.house archive; send an empty piece of mail to\nhouse-archive@dg-rtp.dg.com for information.\n\nChanges to previous issue marked with \"|\" in left column. Watch\nparticularly for \"NEW\" in the Questions list for new or substantively\nchanged answers.\n\nNote that this is now a registered FAQ - cross-posted to news.answers\nand should appear in the FAQ list of lists.\n\nSubject: Questions answered in this FAQ\n\n\tIntroduction/Disclaimers\n\tWhat is the NEC? Where can I get a copy?\n\tWhat is the CEC? Where can I get a copy?\n\tCan I do my own wiring? Extra pointers?\n\tWhat do I need in the way of tools?\n\tWhat is UL listing?\n\tWhat is CSA approval?\n\tAre there any cheaper, easier to read books on wiring?\n\tInspections how and what? Why should I get my wiring inspected?\n\tMy house doesn't meet some of these rules and regulations.\n\tA word on voltages: 110/115/117/120/125/220/240\n\tWhat does an electrical service look like?\n\tWhat is a circuit?\n\t\"grounding\" versus \"grounded\" versus \"neutral\".\n\tWhat does a fuse or breaker do? What are the differences?\n\tBreakers? Can't I use fuses?\n\tWhat size wire should I use?\n\tWhere do these numbers come from?\n\tWhat does \"14-2\" mean?\n\tWhat is a \"wirenut\"/\"marrette\"/\"marr connector\". How are they used?\n\tWhat is a GFI/GFCI?\n\tWhere should GFCIs be used?\n\tWhere shouldn't I use a GFCI?\n\tWhat is the difference between a GFCI outlet and a GFCI breaker?\n\tWhat's the purpose of the ground prong on an outlet, then?\n\tWhy is one prong wider than the other? Polarization\n\tWhat kind of outlets do I need in a kitchen?\n\tWhere must outlets and switches be in bathrooms?\n\tWhat is Romex/NM/NMD? What is BX? When should I use each?\n\tShould I use plastic or metal boxes?\n\tJunction box positioning?\n\tCan I install a replacement fixture?\n\tWhat does it mean when the lights brighten when a motor starts?\n\tWhat is 3 phase power? Should I use it? Can I get it in my house?\n\tIs it better to run motors at 110 or 220?\n\tWhat is this nonsense about 3HP on 110V 15A circuits?\n\tHow do I convert two prong receptacles to three prong?\n\tAre you sure about GFCIs and ungrounded outlets?\n\t Should the test button work?\n\tHow should I wire my shop?\n\tUnderground wiring\n\tAluminum wiring\n\tI'm buying a house! What should I do?\n\tWhat is this weird stuff? Old style wiring\n\tWhere do I buy stuff?\n\n\nSubject: Introduction/Disclaimers\n\n\tAlthough we've done a fair bit of wiring, we are not\n\telectricians, and we cannot be responsible for what you do. If\n\tyou're at all uncertain about what is correct or safe, *don't\n\tdo it*. Contact someone qualified -- a licensed electrician,\n\tor your local electrical inspector. Electricity is no joke;\n\tmistakes can result in shocks, fires, or electrocution.\n\n\tFurthermore, our discussion is based on the U.S. National\n\tElectrical Code (NEC) and the Canadian Electrical code (CEC).\n\tTo the best of our abilities, we have confirmed every detail\n\twith the electrical code, but we don't quote sections\n\tsimply to keep this thing readable. If you think we're wrong,\n\twe invite you to correct us, but please - quote references!\n\n\tThe NEC and the CEC do not, in and of themselves, have the\n\tforce of law. Many municipalities adopt it en toto. Others,\n\thowever, do not. Check your with your local building\n\tdepartment (and Hydro Inspection Offices in\n\tCanada) to find out what applies in your area. Also,\n\tyour local electrical utility may also have special requirements\n\tfor electrical service installation. Bear in mind, too, that\n\twe say here applies primarily to ordinary single-family\n\tresidences. Multi-family dwellings, mobile homes, commercial\n\testablishments, etc., are sometimes governed by different\n\trules.\n\n\tAlso note that, contrary to popular belief in the U.S. (and in\n\tsome parts of Canada), Canada is not a wholly-owned subsidiary\n\tof the U.S. Consequently, the NEC does not apply in Canada.\n\tLots of things are the same, including voltages, line\n\tfrequencies, and the laws of physics. But there are a number\n\tof crucial differences in the regulations. Where we can, we've\n\tnoted them, flagging the relevant passages with ``NEC'' or\n\t``CEC''.\n\n\tRemember that the CEC and NEC are minimal standards. It is often\n\tsmart to go beyond their minimal requirements.\n\nSubject: What is the NEC? Where can I get a copy?\n\n\tThe NEC is a model electrical code devised and published by the\n\tNational Fire Protection Association, an insurance industry group.\n\tIt's revised every three years. The 1993 version has been released.\n\tYou can buy a copy at a decent bookstore, or by calling them directly\n\tat 800-344-3555. The code exists in several versions. There's the\n\tfull text, which is fairly incomprehensible. There's an abridged\n\tedition, which has only the sections likely to apply to most houses.\n\tAnd there's the NEC Handbook, which contains the ``authorized\n\tcommentary'' on the code, as well as the full text. That's the\n\trecommended version. Unfortunately, there's no handbook for\n\tthe abridged edition. And the full handbook is expensive --\n\tUS$65 plus shipping and handling.\n\nSubject: What is the CEC? Where can I get a copy?\n\n\tThe Canadian Standards Association is an organization made up\n\tof various government agencies, power utilities, insurance\n\tcompanies, electrical manufacturers and other organizations.\n\tThe CSA publishes CSA Standard C22.1 which is updated every two\n\tor three years. Each province adopts, with some amendments,\n\tthis standard and publishes a province-specific code book.\n\tSince each province publishes its own slightly modified\n\tstandard, it would be somewhat confusing to obtain the CSA\n\tstandard itself. In this FAQ, \"CEC\" really means the\n\tappropriate provincial standard. In particular, this FAQ is\n\tderived from the Ontario Hydro Electrical Safety Code, 20th\n\tedition (1990). Which is in turn based on CSA C22.1-1990 (16th\n\tedition). While differences exist between the provinces, an\n\tattempt has been made to avoid specific-to-Ontario detail.\n\n\tThe appropriate provincial code can be obtained from electrical\n\tinspection offices of your provincial power authority. In\n\tOntario, it's Ontario Hydro. The Ontario Hydro book isn't\n\toverly fat. It's about C$25, and includes mailed updates. I\n\thear that these standards are somewhat easier to read than the\n\tequivalent NEC publications.\n\n\tDon't bother asking in Quebec - DIY wiring is banned throughout\n\tthe province.\n\nSubject: Can I do my own wiring? Extra pointers?\n\n\tIn most places, homeowners are allowed to do their own wiring.\n\tIn some, they're not. Check with your local electrical\n\tinspector. Most places won't permit you to do wiring on other's\n\thomes for money without a license. Nor are you permitted to do\n\twiring in \"commercial\" buildings. Multiple dwellings (eg: duplexes)\n\tare usually considered \"semi-commercial\" or \"commercial\". However,\n\tmany jurisdictions will permit you to work on semi-commercial\n\twiring if you're supervised by a licensed electrician - if you can\n\tfind one willing to supervise.\n\n\tIf you do your own wiring, an important point:\n\n\tDo it NEAT and WELL! What you really want to aim for is a better\n\tjob than an electrician will do. After all, it's your own home,\n\tand it's you or your family that might get killed if you make\n\ta mistake. An electrician has time pressures, has the skills\n\tand knows the tricks of the trade to do a fast, safe job.\n\tIn this FAQ we've consciously given a few recommendations that\n\tare in excess of code, because we feel that it's reasonable,\n\tand will impress the inspector.\n\n\tThe inspector will know that you're an amateur. You have to\n\tearn his trust. The best way of doing this is to spend your\n\ttime doing as neat a job as possible. Don't cut corners.\n\tExceed specifications. Otherwise, the inspector may get extremely\n\tpicky and fault you on the slightest transgressions.\n\n\tDon't try to hide anything from the inspector.\n\n\tUse the proper tools. Ie: don't use a bread knife to strip\n\twires, or twist wires with your fingers. The inspector\n\twon't like it, and the results won't be that safe. And it\n\ttakes longer. And you're more likely to stick a hunk of\n\t12ga wire through your hand that way.\n\n\tDon't handle house wire when it's very cold (eg: below -10C\n\tor 16F). Thermoplastic house wire, particularly older types\n\tbecome very brittle.\n\nSubject: What do I need in the way of tools?\n\n\tFirst, there's the obvious -- a hammer, a drill, a few\n\tscrewdrivers, both straight and Phillips-head. If you're \n\tlucky enough to live in Canada (or find a source of CSA-approved\n\tdevices) you need Robertson (\"square recess\") screwdrivers\n\t(#1 and #2) instead of phillips.\n\n\tFor drilling a few holes, a 3/4\" or 1\" spade bit and 1/4\" or\n\t3/8\" electric drill will do. If you're doing a lot, or\n\tare working with elderly lumber, we recommend a 1/2\" drill\n\t(right-angle drills are wonderful. Can be rented) and\n\t3/4\" or 1\" screw-point auger drill bits. These bits pull\n\tyou through, so they're much faster and less fatiguing, even\n\tin 90 year old hardwood timbers.\n\n\tScrew-driver bits are useful for drills, expecially if you\n\tinstall your electrical boxes using screws (drywall screws\n\twork well).\n\t\n\tFor stripping wire, use a real wire stripper, not a knife or\n\tordinary wire cutters. Don't buy the $3 K-mart \"combo stripper,\n\tcrimper and bottle opener\" types. You should expect to pay\n\t$15 to $20 for a good \"plier-type\" pair. It will have sized\n\tstripping holes, and won't nick or grab the wire - it should\n\tbe easy to strip wire with it. One model has a small hole in the\n\tblade for forming exact wire loops for screw terminals. There\n\tare fancier types (autostrip/cut), but they generally aren't\n\tnecessary, and pros usually don't use them.\n\n\tA pair of diagonal side cutter pliers are useful for clipping ends\n\tin constricted places. Don't use these for stripping wire.\n\n\tYou will need linesman pliers for twisting wires for wire nuts.\n\n\tYou should have a pair of needle-nose pliers for fiddling\n\tinside boxes and closing loops, but it's better to form wire\n\tloops with a \"loop former hole\" on your wire stripper - more\n\taccurate.\n\n\tIf you're using non-metallic cable, get a cable stripper for\n\tremoving the sheath. Or, do what some pros do, they nick the\n\tend of the sheath, grab the ground wire with a pair of pliers,\n\tand simply rip the sheath back using the ground wire as a\n\t\"zipper\", and cut the sheath off. You shouldn't try to strip\n\tthe sheath with a knife point, because it's too easy to\n\tslash the insulation on the conductors. Apparently Stanley\n\tutility knives fitted with linoleum cutters (hooked blades)\n\tcan be used to strip sheath, but there is still the possibility\n\tthat you'll gouge the conductors.\n\n\tFor any substantial amount of work with armored cable, it's well\n\tworth your while to invest in a rotary cable splitter (~US$ 18).\n\tHack saws are tricky to use without cutting into the wire\n\tor the insulation.\n\n\tThree-prong outlet testers are a quick check for properly-wired\n\toutlets. About $6. Multimeters tell you more, but are a lot more\n\texpensive, and probably not worth it for most people. A simple\n\tvoltage sensor, which can detect potential through an insulated\n\twire not supplying any devices, is extremely helpful; they cost\n\tabout US$ 10 at Radio Shack.\n\n\tYou should have a voltage detector - to check that the wires are\n\tdead before doing work on them. Neon-bulb version are cheap ($2-3)\n\tand work well. If you get more serious, a \"audible alarm\" type is\n\tgood for tracing circuits without a helper. (Though I've been known\n\tto lock the drill on, and hit breakers until the scream stops ;-)\n\n\tFor running wires through existing walls, you need fish tape.\n\tOften, two tapes are needed, though sometimes, a bent hanger or\n\ta length of thin chain will suffice. Fish tapes can be rented.\n\n\tElectrical tape. Lots of it ;-) Seriously, a good and competent\n\twiring job will need very little tape. The tape is useful for\n\twrapping dicy insulation in repair work. Another use is to wrap \n\taround the body of outlets and switches to cover the termination\n\tscrews - I don't do this, but drywall contractors prefer it (to\n\tprevent explosions when the drywall knife collides with a live outlet\n\tthat has no cover plate).\n\nSubject: What is UL listing?\n\n\tThe UL stands for \"Underwriters Laboratory\". It used to be\n\tan Insurance Industry organization, but now it is independent\n\tand non-profit. It tests electrical components and equipment\n\tfor potential hazards. When something is UL-listed, that means\n\tthat the UL has tested the device, and it meets their requirements\n\tfor safety - ie: fire or shock hazard. It doesn't necessarily\n\tmean that the device actually does what it's supposed to, just\n\tthat it probably won't kill you.\n\n\tThe UL does not have power of law in the U.S. -- you are\n\tpermitted to buy and install non-UL-listed devices. However,\n\tinsurance policies sometimes have clauses in them that will\n\tlimit their liability in case of a claim made in response to\n\tthe failure of a non-UL-listed device. Furthermore, in\n\tmany situations the NEC will require that a wiring component\n\tused for a specific purpose is UL-listed for that purpose.\n\tIndirectly, this means that certain parts of your wiring\n\tmust be UL-listed before an inspector will approve it and/or\n\toccupancy permits issued.\n\t\nSubject: What is CSA approval?\n\n\tEvery electrical device or component must be certified by the\n\tCanadian Standards Association before it can be sold in\n\tCanada. Implicit in this is that all wiring must be done\n\twith CSA-approved materials. They perform testing similar to\n\tthe UL (a bit more stringent), except that CSA approval is\n\trequired by law.\n\n\tAgain, like the UL, if a fire was caused by non-CSA-approved\n\tequipment, your insurance company may not have to pay the\n\tclaim.\n\n\tIn Canada, there is a branch organization of the UL, called ULC\n\t(UL of Canada). ULC does not have power of law, and seems to\n\tbe more a liason group between the CSA and insurance\n\tcompanies.\n\nSubject: Are there any cheaper, easier to read books on wiring?\n\n\tUSA: The following three books were suggested by our readers\n\n\t Residential Wiring\n\t by Jeff Markell,\n\t Craftsman Books,\n\t Carlsbad CA for $18.25. ISBN 0-934041-19-9.\n\n\t Practical Electrical Wiring\n\t Residential, Farm and Industrial, Based on the National\n\t Electrical Code ANSI/NFPA 70\n\t Herbert P. Richter and W. Creighton Schwan\n\t McGraw-Hill Book Co.\n\n\t Wiring Simplified\n\t H. P. Richter and W. C. Schwan\n\t Park Publishing Co.\n\t\n\tTry to make sure that the book is based on the latest NEC\n\trevision. Which is currently 1990.\n\n\tCanada: P.S. Knight authors and publishes a book called\n\t\"Electrical Code Simplified\". There appears to be a version\n\tpublished specific to each province, and is very tied into the\n\tappropriate provincial code. It focuses on residential wiring,\n\tand is indispensible for Canadian DIY'ers. It is better to get\n\tthis book than the CEC unless you do a lot of wiring (or answer\n\tquestions on the net ;-).\n\n\tIt is updated each time the provincial codes are. This book is\n\tavailable at all DIY and hardware stores for less than C$10.\n\nSubject: Inspections how and what? Why should I get my wiring inspected?\n\n\tMost jurisdictions require that you obtain a permit and\n\tinspections of any wiring that is done. Amongst other more\n\tmundane bureaucratic reasons (like insurance companies not\n\tliking to have to pay claims), a permit and inspections\n\tprovides some assurance that you, your family, your neighbors\n\tor subsequent owners of your home don't get killed or lose\n\ttheir homes one night due to a sloppy wiring job.\n\n\tMost jurisdictions have the power to order you to vacate your\n\thome, or order you to tear out any wiring done without a\n\tpermit. California, for instance, is particularly nasty about\n\tthis.\n\n\tIf fire starts in your home, and un-inspected wiring is at\n\tfault, insurance companies will often refuse to pay the damage\n\tclaims.\n\n\tIn general, the process goes like this:\n\t\t- you apply to your local inspections office or building\n\t\t department for a permit. You should have a sketch or\n\t\t detailed drawing of what you plan on doing. This is\n\t\t a good time to ask questions on any things you're not\n\t\t sure of. If you're doing major work, they may impose\n\t\t special conditions on you, require loading\n\t\t calculations and ask other questions. At this point\n\t\t they will tell you which inspections you will need.\n\t\t- If you're installing a main panel, you will need to\n\t\t have the panel and service connections inspected\n\t\t before your power utility will provide a connection.\n\t\t This is sometimes done by the local power authority\n\t\t rather than the usual inspectors.\n\t\t- After installing the boxes and wiring, but before\n\t\t the insulation/walls go up, you will need a\n\t\t \"rough-in\" inspection.\n\t\t- After the walls are up, and the wiring is complete,\n\t\t you will need a \"final inspection\".\n\nSubject: My house doesn't meet some of these rules and regulations.\n\tDo I have to upgrade?\n\n\tIn general, there is no requirement to upgrade older dwellings,\n\tthough there are some exceptions (ie: smoke detectors in some\n\tcases). However, any new work must be done according to the\n\tlatest electrical code. Also, if you do ``major'' work, you\n\tmay be required to upgrade certain existing portions or all\n\tof your system. Check with your local electrical inspector.\n\nSubject: A word on voltages: 110/115/117/120/125/220/240\n\n\tOne thing where things might get a bit confusing is the\n\tdifferent numbers people bandy about for the voltage of\n\ta circuit. One person might talk about 110V, another 117V\n\tor another 120V. These are all, in fact, exactly the same\n\tthing... In North America the utility companies are required\n\tto supply a split-phase 240 volt (+-5%) feed to your house.\n\tThis works out as two 120V +- 5% legs. Additionally, since there\n\tare resistive voltage drops in the house wiring, it's not\n\tunreasonable to find 120V has dropped to 110V or 240V has dropped\n\tto 220V by the time the power reaches a wall outlet. Especially\n\tat the end of an extension cord or long circuit run. For a number\n\tof reasons, some historical, some simple personal orneryness,\n\tdifferent people choose call them by slightly different numbers.\n\tThis FAQ has chosen to be consistent with calling them \"110V\" and\n\t\"220V\", except when actually saying what the measured voltage will\n\tbe. Confusing? A bit. Just ignore it.\n\n\tOne thing that might make this a little more understandable\n\tis that the nameplates on equipment ofen show the lower (ie: 110V\n\tinstead of 120V) value. What this implies is that the device\n\tis designed to operate properly when the voltage drops that\n\tlow.\n\n\t208V is *not* the same as 240V. 208V is the voltage between\n\tphases of a 3-phase \"Y\" circuit that is 120V from neutral to any\n\thot. 480V is the voltage between phases of a 3-phase \"Y\"\n\tcircuit that's 277V from hot to neutral.\n\n\tIn keeping with 110V versus 120V strangeness, motors intended\n\tto run on 480V three phase are often labelled as 440V...\n\nSubject: What does an electrical service look like?\n\n\tThere are logically four wires involved with supplying the\n\tmain panel with power. Three of them will come from the utility\n\tpole, and a fourth (bare) wire comes from elsewhere.\n\n \tThe bare wire is connected to one or more long metal bars pounded\n \tinto the ground, or to a wire buried in the foundation, or sometimes\n \tto the water supply pipe (has to be metal, continuous to where\n\tthe main water pipe entering the house. Watch out for galvanic\n\taction conductivity \"breaks\" (often between copper and iron pipe)).\n\tThis is the \"grounding conductor\". It is there to make sure that\n\tthe third prong on your outlets is connected to ground. This wire\n\tnormally carries no current.\n\n\tOne of the other wires will be white (or black with white or\n\tyellow stripes, or sometimes simply black). It is the neutral wire.\n\tIt is connected to the \"centre tap\" (CEC; \"center tap\" in the\n\tNEC) of the distribution transformer supplying the power. It\n\tis connected to the grounding conductor in only one place (often\n\tinside the panel). The neutral and ground should not be connected\n\tanywhere else. Otherwise, weird and/or dangerous things may happen.\n\n\tFurthermore, there should only be one grounding system in\n\ta home. Some codes require more than one grounding electrode.\n\tThese will be connected together, or connected to the neutral\n\tat a common point - still one grounding system. Adding additional\n\tgrounding electrodes connected to other portions of the house\n\twiring is unsafe and contrary to code.\n\n\tIf you add a subpanel, the ground and neutral are usually\n\tbrought as separate conductors from the main panel, and are\n\tnot connected together in the subpanel (ie: still only one\n\tneutral-ground connection). However, in some situations \n\t(certain categories of separate buildings) you actually do\n\thave to provide a second grounding electrode - consult your\n\tinspector.\n\n\tThe other two wires will usually be black, and are the \"hot\"\n\twires. They are attached to the distribution transformer as\n\twell.\n\n\tThe two black wires are 180 degrees out of phase with each\n\tother. This means if you connect something to both hot wires,\n\tthe voltage will be 220 volts. If you connect something to the\n\twhite and either of the two blacks you will get 110V.\n\n\tSome panels seem to only have three wires coming into them.\n\tThis is either because the neutral and ground are connected\n\ttogether at a different point (eg: the meter or pole) and one\n\twire is doing dual-duty as both neutral and ground, or in some\n\trare occasions, the service has only one hot wire (110V only\n\tservice).\n\nSubject: What is a circuit?\n\n\tInside the panel, connections are made to the incoming wires.\n\tThese connections are then used to supply power to selected\n\tportions of the home. There are three different combinations:\n\t\t1) one hot, one neutral, and ground: 110V circuit.\n\t\t2) two hots, no neutral, and ground: 220V circuit.\n\t\t3) two hots, neutral, and ground: 220V circuit + neutral,\n\t\t and/or two 110V circuits with a common neutral.\n\n\t(1) is used for most circuits supplying receptacles and\n\tlighting within your house. (3) is usually used for supplying\n\tpower to major appliances such as stoves, and dryers - they\n\toften have need for both 220V and 110V, or for bringing several\n\tcircuits from the panel box to a distribution point. (2) is\n\tusually for special 220V motor circuits, electric heaters, or\n\tair conditioners.\n\n\t[Note: In the US, the NEC frequently permits a circuit similar\n\tto (2) be used for stoves and dryers - namely, that there\n\tare two hot wires, and a wire that does dual duty as neutral\n\tand ground, and is connected to the frame as well as providing\n\tthe neutral for 110V purposes - three prong plugs instead\n\tof four (*only* for stoves/dryers connected to the main panel.\n\tWhen connected to most sub-panels, 4 prong plugs and receptacles\n\tare required). In our not-so-humble opinion this is crazy, but\n\tthe NFPA claims that this practice was re-evaluated for the 1992 NEC,\n\tand found to be safe. Check your local codes, or inquire as to\n\tlocal practice -- there are restrictions on when this is\n\tpermissible.]\n\n\t(1) is usually wired with three conductor wire: black for hot,\n\twhite for neutral, and bare for grounding.\n\n\t(2) and (3) have one hot wire coloured red, the other black, a\n\tbare wire for grounding, and in (3) a white wire for neutral.\n\n\tYou will sometimes see (2) wired with just a black, white and ground\n\twire. Since the white is \"hot\" in this case, both the NEC and CEC\n\trequires that the white wire be \"permanently marked\" at the ends\n\tto indicate that it is a live wire. Usually done with paint, nail\n\tpolish or sometimes electrical tape.\n\n\tEach circuit is attached to the main wires coming into the\n\tpanel through a circuit breaker or fuse.\n\n\tThere are, in a few locales, circuits that look like (1), (2)\n\tor (3) except that they have two bare ground wires. Some places\n\trequire this for hot tubs and the like (one ground is \"frame ground\",\n\tthe other attaches to the motor). This may or may not be an\n\talternative to GFCI protection.\n\nSubject: \"grounding\" versus \"grounded\" versus \"neutral\".\n\n\tAccording to the terminology in the CEC and NEC, the\n\t\"grounding\" conductor is for the safety ground, i.e., the green\n\tor bare wire. The word \"neutral\" is reserved for the white when\n\tyou have a circuit with more than one \"hot\" wire. Since the white\n\twire is connected to neutral and the grounding conductor inside the\n\tpanel, the proper term is \"grounded conductor\". However, the\n\tpotential confusion between \"grounded conductor\" and \"grounding\n\tconductor\" can lead to potentially lethal mistakes - you should\n\tnever use the bare wire as a \"grounded conductor\" or white wire\n\tas the \"grounding conductor\", even though they are connected\n\ttogether in the panel.\n\n\t[But not in subpanels - subpanels are fed neutral and ground\n\tseparately from the main panel. Usually.]\n\n\tIn the trade, and in common usage, the word \"neutral\" is used\n\tfor \"grounded conductor\". This FAQ uses \"neutral\" simply to\n\tavoid potential confusion. We recommend that you use \"neutral\"\n\ttoo. Thus the white wire is always (except in some light\n\tswitch applications) neutral. Not ground.\n\nSubject: What does a fuse or breaker do? What are the differences?\n\n\tFuses and circuit breakers are designed to interrupt the power\n\tto a circuit when the current flow exceeds safe levels. For\n\texample, if your toaster shorts out, a fuse or breaker should\n\t\"trip\", protecting the wiring in the walls from melting. As\n\tsuch, fuses and breakers are primarily intended to protect the\n\twiring -- UL or CSA approval supposedly indicates that the\n\tequipment itself won't cause a fire.\n\n\tFuses contain a narrow strip of metal which is designed to melt\n\t(safely) when the current exceeds the rated value, thereby\n\tinterrupting the power to the circuit. Fuses trip relatively\n\tfast. Which can sometimes be a problem with motors which have\n\tlarge startup current surges. For motor circuits, you can use\n\ta \"time-delay\" fuse (one brand is \"fusetron\") which will avoid\n\ttripping on momentary overloads. A fusetron looks like a\n\tspring-loaded fuse. A fuse can only trip once, then it must be\n\treplaced.\n\n\tBreakers are fairly complicated mechanical devices. They\n\tusually consist of one spring loaded contact which is latched\n\tinto position against another contact. When the current flow\n\tthrough the device exceeds the rated value, a bimetallic strip\n\theats up and bends. By bending it \"trips\" the latch, and the\n\tspring pulls the contacts apart. Circuit breakers behave\n\tsimilarly to fusetrons - that is, they tend to take longer to\n\ttrip at moderate overloads than ordinary fuses. With high\n\toverloads, they trip quickly. Breakers can be reset a finite\n\tnumber of times - each time they trip, or are thrown\n\twhen the circuit is in use, some arcing takes place, which\n\tdamages the contacts. Thus, breakers should not be used in\n\tplace of switches unless they are specially listed for the\n\tpurpose.\n\n\tNeither fuses nor breakers \"limit\" the current per se. A dead\n\tshort on a circuit can cause hundreds or sometimes even\n\tthousands of amperes to flow for a short period of time, which\n\tcan often cause severe damage.\n\nSubject: Breakers? Can't I use fuses?\n\n\tStatistics show that fuse panels have a significantly higher\n\trisk of causing a fire than breaker panels. This is usually\n\tdue to the fuse being loosely screwed in, or the contacts\n\tcorroding and heating up over time, or the wrong size fuse\n\tbeing installed, or the proverbial \"replace the fuse with a\n\tpenny\" trick.\n\n\tSince breakers are more permanently installed, and have better\n\tconnection mechanisms, the risk of fire is considerably less.\n\n\tFuses are prone to explode under extremely high overload. When\n\ta fuse explodes, the metallic vapor cloud becomes a conducting\n\tpath. Result? from complete meltdown of the electrical panel,\n\tmelted service wiring, through fires in the electrical\n\tdistribution transformer and having your house burn down.\n\tBreakers don't do this.\n\n\tMany jurisdictions, particularly in Canada, no longer permit\n\tfuse panels in new installations. The NEC does permit new\n\tfuse panels in some rare circumstances (requiring the special\n\tinserts to \"key\" the fuseholder to specific size fuses)\n\n\tSome devices, notably certain large air conditioners, require fuse\n\tprotection in addition to the breaker at the panel. The fuse\n\tis there to protect the motor windings from overload. Check the\n\tlabeling on the unit. This is usually only on large permanently\n\tinstalled motors. The installation instructions will tell you\n\tif you need one.\n\nSubject: What size wire should I use?\n\n\tFor a 20 amp circuit, use 12 gauge wire. For a 15 amp circuit,\n\tyou can use 14 gauge wire (in most locales). For a long run,\n\tthough, you should use the next larger size wire, to avoid\n\tvoltage drops. 12 gauge is only slightly more expensive than\n\t14 gauge, though it's stiffer and harder to work with.\n\n\tHere's a quick table for normal situations. Go up a size for\n\tmore than 100 foot runs, when the cable is in conduit, or\n\tganged with other wires in a place where they can't dissipate\n\theat easily:\n\n\t\tGauge\t\tAmps\n\t\t14\t\t15\n\t\t12\t\t20\n\t\t10\t\t30\n\t\t8\t\t40\n\t\t6\t\t65\n\t\n\tWe don't list bigger sizes because it starts getting very dependent\n\ton the application and precise wire type.\n\nSubject: Where do these numbers come from?\n\n\tThere are two considerations, voltage drop and heat buildup.\n\tThe smaller the wire is, the higher the resistance is. When\n\tthe resistance is higher, the wire heats up more, and there is\n\tmore voltage drop in the wiring. The former is why you need\n\thigher-temperature insulation and/or bigger wires for use in\n\tconduit; the latter is why you should use larger wire for long\n\truns.\n\n\tNeither effect is very significant over very short distances.\n\tThere are some very specific exceptions, where use of smaller\n\twire is allowed. The obvious one is the line cord on most\n\tlamps. Don't try this unless you're certain that your use fits\n\tone of those exceptions; you can never go wrong by using larger\n\twire.\n\nSubject: What does \"14-2\" mean?\n\n\tThis is used to describe the size and quantity of conductors\n\tin a cable. The first number specifies the gauge. The second\n\tthe number of current carrying conductors in the wire - but\n\tremember there's usually an extra ground wire. \"14-2\" means\n\t14 gauge, two insulated current carrying wires, plus bare ground.\n\n\t-2 wire usually has a black, white and bare ground wire. Sometimes\n\tthe white is red instead for 220V circuits without neutral. In\n\tthe latter case, the sheath is usually red too.\n\n\t-3 wire usually has a black, red, white and bare ground wire.\n\tUsually carrying 220V with neutral.\n\nSubject: What is a \"wirenut\"/\"marrette\"/\"marr connector\"? How are they\n\tused?\n\n\tA wire nut is a cone shaped threaded plastic thingummy that's used\n\tto connect wires together. \"Marrette\" or \"Marr connector\"\n\tare trade names. You'll usually use a lot of them in DIY wiring.\n\n\tIn essence, you strip the end of the wires about an inch, twist them\n\ttogether, then twist the wirenut on.\n\n\tThough some wirenuts advertise that you don't need to twist the\n\twire, do it anyways - it's more mechanically and electrically\n\tsecure.\n\n\tThere are many different sizes of wire nut. You should check\n\tthat the wire nut you're using is the correct size for the\n\tquantity and sizes of wire you're connecting together.\n\n\tDon't just gimble the wires together with a pair of pliers or\n\tyour fingers. Use a pair of blunt nose (\"linesman\") pliers,\n\tand carefully twist the wires tightly and neatly. Sometimes\n\tit's a good idea to trim the resulting end to make sure it\n\tgoes in the wirenut properly.\n\n\tSome people wrap the \"open\" end of the wirenut with electrical\n\ttape. This is probably not a good idea - the inspector may\n\ttear it off during an inspection. It's usually done because\n\ta bit of bare wire is exposed outside the wire nut - instead\n\tof taping it, the connection should be redone.\n\nSubject: What is a GFI/GFCI?\n\n\tA GFCI is a ``ground-fault circuit interrupter''. It measures\n\tthe current current flowing through the hot wire and the\n\tneutral wire. If they differ by more than a few milliamps, the\n\tpresumption is that current is leaking to ground via some other\n\tpath. This may be because of a short circuit to the chassis of\n\tan appliance, or to the ground lead, or through a person. Any\n\tof these situations is hazardous, so the GFCI trips, breaking\n\tthe circuit.\n\n\tGFCIs do not protect against all kinds of electric shocks. If,\n\tfor example, you simultaneously touched the hot and neutral\n\tleads of a circuit, and no part of you was grounded, a GFCI\n\twouldn't help. All of the current that passed from the hot\n\tlead into you would return via the neutral lead, keeping the\n\tGFCI happy.\n\n\tThe two pairs of connections on a GFCI outlet are not symmetric.\n\tOne is labeled LOAD; the other, LINE. The incoming power feed\n\t*must* be connected to the LINE side, or the outlet will not be\n\tprotected. The LOAD side can be used to protect all devices\n\tdownstream from it. Thus, a whole string of outlets can be\n\tcovered by a single GFCI outlet.\n\nSubject: Where should GFCIs be used?\n\n\tThe NEC mandates GFCIs for 110V, 15A or 20A single phase\n\toutlets, in bathrooms, kitchens within 6' of the sink, garages,\n\tunfinished basements or crawl spaces, outdoors, near a pool, or\n\tjust about anywhere else where you're likely to encounter water\n\tor dampness. There are exceptions for inaccessible outlets,\n\tthose dedicated to appliances ``occupying fixed space'',\n\ttypically refrigerators and freezers, and for sump pumps and\n\tlaundry appliances.\n\n\tThe CEC does not mandate as many GFCIs. In particular, there\n\tis no requirement to protect kitchen outlets, or most garage or\n\tbasement outlets. Basement outlets must be protected if you\n\thave a dirt floor, garage outlets if they're near the door to\n\toutside. Bathrooms and most exterior outlets must have GFCIs.\n\n\tEven if you are not required to have GFCI protection, you may\n\twant to consider installing it anyway. Unless you need a GFCI\n\tbreaker (see below), the cost is low. In the U.S., GFCI\n\toutlets can cost as little as US$8. (Costs are a bit higher in\n\tCanada: C$12.) Evaluate your own risk factors. Does your\n\tfinished basement ever get wet? Do you have small children?\n\tDo you use your garage outlets to power outdoor tools? Does\n\twater or melted snow ever puddle inside your garage?\n\nSubject: Where shouldn't I use a GFCI?\n\n\tGFCIs are generally not used on circuits that (a) don't pose a\n\tsafety risk, and (b) are used to power equipment that must run\n\tunattended for long periods of time. Refrigerators, freezers,\n\tand sump pumps are good examples. The rationale is that GFCIs\n\tare sometimes prone to nuisance trips. Some people claim that\n\tthe inductive delay in motor windings can cause a momentary\n\tcurrent imbalance, tripping the GFCI. Note, though, that most\n\tGFCI trips are real; if you're getting a lot of trips for no\n\tapparent reason, you'd be well-advised to check your wiring\n\tbefore deciding that the GFCI is broken or useless.\n\nSubject: What is the difference between a GFCI outlet and a GFCI breaker?\n\n\tFor most situations, you can use either a GFCI outlet as the\n\tfirst device on the circuit, or you can install a breaker with\n\ta built-in GFCI. The former is generally preferred, since GFCI\n\tbreakers are quite expensive. For example, an ordinary GE\n\tbreaker costs ~US$5; the GFCI model costs ~US$35. There is one\n\tmajor exception: if you need to protect a ``multi-wire branch\n\tcircuit'' (two or more circuits sharing a common neutral wire),\n\tsuch as a Canadian-style kitchen circuit, you'll need a\n\tmulti-pole GFCI breaker. Unfortunately, these are expensive;\n\tthe cost can range into the hundreds of dollars, depending on\n\twhat brand of panel box you have. But if you must protect such\n\ta circuit (say, for a pool heater), you have no choice.\n\n\tOne more caveat -- GFCI outlets are bulky. You may want to use\n\tan oversize box when installing them. On second thought, use\n\tlarge (actually deep) boxes everywhere. You'll thank yourself for it.\n\n\tIncidentally, if you're installing a GFCI to ensure that one\n\tspecific outlet is protected (such as a bathroom), you don't\n\treally have to go to all of the trouble to find the first\n\toutlet in the circuit, you could simply find the first outlet\n\tin the bathroom, and not GFCI anything upstream of it. But\n\tprotecting the whole circuit is preferred.\n\n\tWhen you install a GFCI, it's a good idea to use the little\n\t\"ground fault protected\" stickers that come with it and mark\n\tthe outlets downstream of the GFCI. You can figure out which\n\toutlets are \"downstream\", simply by tripping the GFCI with the\n\ttest button and see which outlets are dead.\n\nSubject: What's the purpose of the ground prong on an outlet, then?\n\n\tApart from their use in electronics, which we won't comment on,\n\tand for certain fluorescent lights (they won't turn on without\n\ta good ground connection), they're intended to guard against\n\tinsulation failures within the device. Generally, the case of\n\tthe appliance is connected to the ground lead. If there's an\n\tinsulation failure that shorts the hot lead to the case, the\n\tground lead conducts the electricity away safely (and possibly\n\ttrips the circuit breaker in the process). If the case is not\n\tgrounded and such a short occurs, the case is live -- and if\n\tyou touch it while you're grounded, you'll get zapped. Of\n\tcourse, if the circuit is GFCI-protected, it will be a very\n\ttiny zap -- which is why you can use GFCIs to replace\n\tungrounded outlets (both NEC and CEC).\n\n\tThere are some appliances that should *never* be grounded. In\n\tparticular, that applies to toasters and anything else with\n\texposed conductors. Consider: if you touch the heating\n\telectrode in a toaster, and you're not grounded, nothing will\n\thappen. If you're slightly grounded, you'll get a small shock;\n\tthe resistance will be too high. But if the case were\n\tgrounded, and you were holding it, you'd be the perfect path to\n\tground...\n\nSubject: Why is one prong wider than the other? Polarization\n\n\tNowadays, many two-prong devices have one prong wider than the\n\tother. This is so that the device could rely (not guaranteed!)\n\ton one specific wire being neutral, and the other hot.\n\tThis is particularly advantageous in light fixtures, where the\n\tthe shell should neutral (safety), or other devices which want to\n\thave an approximate ground reference (ie: some radios).\n\n\tMost 2-prong extension cords have wide prongs too.\n\n\tThis requires that you wire your outlets and plugs the right\n\tway around. You want the wide prong to be neutral, and the\n\tnarrow one hot. Most outlets have a darker metal for the\n\thot screw, and lighter coloured screw for the neutral.\n\tIf not, you can usually figure out which is which by which\n\tprong the terminating screw connects to.\n\nSubject: What kind of outlets do I need in a kitchen?\n\n\tThe NEC requires at least two 20 amp ``small appliance\n\tcircuits'' for kitchens. The CEC requires split-duplex\n\treceptacles. Outlets must be installed such that no point is more\n\tthan 24\" (NEC) (900 mm CEC) from an outlet. Every counter wider\n\tthan 12\" (NEC) or 300 mm (CEC) must have at least one outlet.\n\tThe circuit these outlets are on may not feed any outlets except\n\tin the kitchen, pantry, or dining room. Furthermore, these circuits\n\tare in addition to any required for refrigerators, stoves, microwaves,\n\tlighting, etc. Non-dedicated outlets within 6' of a sink *must* be\n\tprotected by a GFCI (NEC only).\n\n\tSplit duplex receptacles are fed with a 220V circuit. The tab\n\tis broken on the hot side of the outlet, and one hot goes to\n\tthe upper outlet, and the other hot goes to the lower outlet.\n\tThe neutral connects to both outlets through one screw. When\n\t\"carrying through\" to another outlet, the neutral must be\n\tpigtailed, such that removing the outlet, or having the neutral\n\tconnection fall off doesn't cause the neutral to disconnect\n\tfrom downstream outlets.\n\nSubject: Where must outlets and switches be in bathrooms?\n\n\tThere must be at least one outlet in each bathroom, adjacent to\n\tthe sink, in addition to any outlet that may be incorporated in\n\tthe light fixture. All such outlets *must* be GFCI-protected.\n\nSubject: What is Romex/NM/NMD? What is BX? When should I use each?\n\n\tRomex is a brand name for a type of plastic insulated wire.\n\tSometimes called non-metallic sheath. The formal name is NM.\n\tThis is suitable for use in dry, protected areas (ie: inside\n\tstud walls, on the sides of joists etc.), that are not subject\n\tto mechanical damage or excessive heat. Most newer homes are\n\twired almost exclusively with NM wire. There are several\n\tdifferent categories of NM cable.\n\n\tBX cable -- technically known as armored cable or \"AC\" has a\n\tflexible aluminum or steel sheath over the conductors and is\n\tfairly resistant to damage.\n\n\tTECK cable is AC with an additional external thermoplastic\n\tsheath.\n\t\n\tProtection for cable in concealed locations: where NM or AC cable\n\tis run through studs, joists or similar wooden members, the outer\n\tsurface of the cable must be kept at least 32mm/1.25\" (CEC & NEC)\n\tfrom the edges of the wooden members, or the cable should be protected\n\tfrom mechanical injury. This latter protection can take the form of\n\tmetal plates (such as spare outlet box ends) or conduit.\n\n\t[Note: inspector-permitted practise in Canada suggests that armored\n\tcable, or flexible conduit can be used as the mechanical protection,\n\tbut this is technically illegal.]\n\n\tAdditional protection recommendations (these are rules in the\n\tCanadian codes - they are reasonable answers to the vague\n\treferences to \"exposed to mechanical damage\" in both the NEC\n\tand CEC):\n\n\t - NM cable should be protected against mechanical damage\n\t where it passes through floors or on the surface of walls\n\t in exposed locations under 5 feet from the floor.\n\t Ie: use AC instead, flexible conduit, wooden guards etc.\n\t - Where cable is suspended, as in, connections to furnaces\n\t or water heaters, the wire should be protected. Canadian\n\t practise is usually to install a junction or outlet\n\t box on the wall, and use a short length of AC cable\n\t or NM cable in flexible conduit to \"jump\" to the appliance.\n\t Stapling NM to a piece of lumber is also sometimes used.\n\t - Where NM cable is run in close proximity to heating\n\t ducts or pipe, heat transfer should be minimized by\n\t means of a 25mm/1\" air space, or suitable insulation\n\t material (a wad of fiberglass).\n\t - NM cable shall be supported within 300mm/1' of every box\n\t or fitting, and at intervals of no more than 1.5m/5'.\n\t Holes in joists or studs are considered \"supports\".\n\t Some slack in the cable should be provided adjacent to\n\t each box. [while fishing cable is technically in violation,\n\t it is permitted where \"proper\" support is impractical]\n\t - 2 conductor NM cable should never be stapled on edge.\n\t [Knight also insists on only one cable per staple, referring\n\t to the \"workmanship\" clause, but this seems more honoured\n\t in the breach...]\n\t - cable should never be buried in plaster, cement or\n\t similar finish.\n\t - cable should be protected where it runs behind baseboards.\n\t - Cable may not be run on the upper edge of ceiling joists\n\t or the lower edges of rafters where the headroom is more\n\t than 1m (39\").\n\n\tWhenever BX cable is terminated at a box with a clamp, small\n\tplastic bushings must be inserted in the end of the cable to\n\tprevent the clamps forcing the sharp ends of the armor through\n\tthe insulation.\n\n\tBX is sometimes a good idea in a work shop unless covered by\n\tsolid wall coverings.\n\n\tIn places where damage is more likely (like on the back wall of\n\ta garage ;-), you may be required to use conduit, a\n\tUL- (or CSA-) approved metal pipe. You use various types of\n\tfittings to join the pipe or provide entrance/exit for the\n\twire.\n\n\tService entrances frequently use a plastic conduit.\n\n\tIn damp places (eg: buried wiring to outdoor lighting) you will\n\tneed special wire (eg: CEC NMW90, NEC UF). NMW90 looks like\n\tvery heavy-duty NMD90. You will usually need short lengths of\n\tconduit where the wire enters/exits the ground. [See underground\n\twiring section.]\n\n \tThermoplastic sheath wire (such as NM, NMW etc.) should not be\n \texposed to direct sunlight unless explicitly approved for that\n \tpurpose.\n\n\tMany electrical codes do not permit the routing of wire through\n\tfurnace ducts, including cold air return plenums constructed\n\tby metal sheeting enclosing joist spaces. The reason for this\n\tis that if there's a fire, the ducting will spread toxic gasses\n\tfrom burning insulation very rapidly through the building.\n\tTeflon insulated wire is permitted in plenums in many areas.\n\t\n \tCanada appears to use similar wire designations to the US,\n \texcept that Canadian wire designations usually include the\n \ttemperature rating in Celsius. Eg: \"AC90\" versus \"AC\".\n\tIn the US, NM-B is 90 degrees celcius.\n\n\tNOTE: local codes vary. This is one of the items that changes\n\tmost often. Eg: Chicago codes require conduit *everywhere*.\n\tThere are very different requirements for mobile homes.\n\tCheck your local codes, *especially* if you're doing anything\n\tthat's the slightest out of the ordinary.\n\n\tWire selection table (incomplete - the real tables are enormous,\n\tuncommon wire types or applications omitted)\n\n\tCondition\t\t\tType\tCEC\tNEC\n\n\tExposed/Concealed dry\t\tplastic\tNMD90\tNM\n\t\t\t\t\tarmor\tAC90\tAC\n\t\t\t\t\t\tTECK90\n\n\tExposed/Concealed damp\t\tplastic\tNMD90\tNMC\n\t\t\t\t\tarmor\tACWU90\n\t\t\t\t\t\tTECK90\n\n\tExposed/Concealed wet\t\tplastic\tNMWU90\n\t\t\t\t\tarmor\tACWU90\n\t\t\t\t\t\tTECK90\n\t\n\tExposed to weather\t\tplastic\tNMWU\n\t\t\t\t\t\tTW etc.\n\t\t\t\t\tarmor\tTECK90\n\t\n\tDirect earth burial/\t\tplastic\tNMWU*\tUF\n\tService entrance\t\t\tRWU\n\t\t\t\t\t\tTWU\n\t\t\t\t\tarmor\tRA90\n\t\t\t\t\t\tTECK90\n\t\t\t\t\t\tACWU90\n\t[* NMWU not for service entrance]\n\nSubject: Should I use plastic or metal boxes?\n\n\tThe NEC permits use of plastic boxes with non-metallic cable\n\tonly. The reasoning is simple -- with armored cable, the box\n\titself provides ground conductor continuity. U.S. plastic\n\tboxes don't use metal cable clamps.\n\n\tThe CEC is slightly different. The CEC never permits cable\n\tarmor as a grounding conductor. However, you must still\n\tprovide ground continuity for metallic sheath. The CEC also\n\trequires grounding of any metal cable clamps on plastic boxes.\n\n\tThe advantage of plastic boxes is comparatively minor even for\n\tnon-metallic sheathed cable -- you can avoid making one ground\n\tconnection and they sometimes cost a little less. On the other\n\thand, plastic boxes are more vulnerable to impacts. For\n\texposed or shop wiring, metal boxes are probably better.\n\nSubject: Junction box positioning?\n\n\tA junction box is a box used only for connecting wires together.\n\n\tJunction boxes must be located in such a way that they're accessible\n\tlater. Ie: not buried under plaster. Excessive use of junction\n\tboxes is often a sign of sloppy installation, and inspectors may\n\tget nasty.\n\nSubject: Can I install a replacement light fixture?\n\n\tIn general, one can replace fixtures freely, subject to a few\n\tcaveats. First, of course, one should check the amperage\n\trating of the circuit. If your heart is set on installing half\n\ta dozen 500 watt floodlights, you may need to run a new wire\n\tback to the panel box. But there are some more subtle\n\tconstraints as well. For example, older house\n\twiring doesn't have high-temperature insulation. The excess\n\theat generated by a ceiling-mounted lamp can and will cause the\n\tinsulation to deteriorate and crack, with obvious bad results.\n\tSome newer fixtures are specifically marked for high\n\ttemperature wire only. (You may find, in fact, that your\n\tceiling wiring already has this problem, in which case\n\treplacing any devices is a real adventure.)\n\n\tOther concerns include providing a suitable ground for some\n\tfluorescent fixtures, and making sure that the ceiling box and\n\tits mounting are strong enough to support the weight of a heavy\n\tchandelier or ceiling fan. You may need to install a new box\n\tspecifically listed for this purpose. A 2x4 across the ceiling\n\tjoists makes a good support. Metal brackets are also available\n\tthat can be fished into ceilings thru the junction box hole and\n\tmounted between the joists.\n\n\tThere are special rules for recessed light fixtures such as\n\t\"pot\" lamps or heat lamps. When these are installed in insulated\n\tceilings, they can present a very substantial fire hazard.\n\tThe CEC provides for the installation of pot lamps in insulated\n\tceilings, provided that the fixture is boxed in a \"coffin\" (usually\n\t8'x16\"x12\" - made by making a pair of joists 12\" high, and covering\n\twith plywood) that doesn't have any insulation. (Yes, that's 8 *feet*\n\tlong)\n\n\tNEC rules are somewhat less stringent. They require at least 3\"\n\tclearance between the fixture and any sort of thermal insulation.\n\tThe rules also say that one should not obstruct free air movement,\n\twhich means that a CEC-style ``coffin'' might be worthwhile.\n\tPresumably, that's up to the local inspector. [The CEC doesn't\n\tactually mandate the coffin per-se, this seems to be an inspector\n\trequirement to make absolutely certain that the fixture can't get\n\taccidentally buried in insulation. Ie: if you have insulation blown\n\tin later.]\n\n\tThere are now fixtures that contain integral thermal cutouts and\n\tfairly large cases that can be buried directly in insulation. They are\n\tusually limited to 75 watt bulbs, and are unfortunately, somewhat\n\tmore expensive than the older types. Before you use them, you should\n\tensure that they have explicit UL or CSA approval for such uses.\n\tFollow the installation instructions carefully; the prescribed location\n\tfor the sensor can vary.\n\n\tThere does not yet appear to be a heat lamp fixture that is approved\n\tfor use in insulation. The \"coffin\" appears the only legal approach.\n\nSubject: What does it mean when the lights brighten when a motor starts?\n\n\tThis usually means that the neutral wire in the panel is\n\tloose. Depending on the load balance, one hot wire may end up\n\tbeing more than 110V, and the other less than 110V, with\n\trespect to ground. This is a very hazardous situation - it can\n\tdestroy your electronic equipment, possibly start fires, and in\n\tsome situations electrocute you (ie: some US jurisdictions\n\trequire the stove frame connected to neutral).\n\n\tIf this happens, contact your electrical authority immediately\n\tand have them come and check out the problem.\n\n\tNote: a brief (< 1 second) brightening is sometimes normal with\n\tlighting and motors on the same 220V with neutral circuit. A\n\tloose main panel neutral will usually show increased brightness\n\tfar longer than one second. In case of doubt, get help.\n\nSubject: What is 3 phase power? Should I use it? Can I get it in my house?\n\n\tThree phase power has three \"hot\" wires, 120 degrees out of\n\tphase with each other. These are usually used for large motors\n\tbecause it is more \"efficient\", provides a bit more starting torque,\n\tand because the motors are simpler and hence cheaper.\n\n\tYou're most likely to encounter a 3 phase circuit that shows\n\t110 volts between any hot and ground, and 208 volts between\n\tany two hots. The latter shows the difference between a normal\n\t220V/110V common neutral circuit, which is 240 volts between the\n\ttwo hots. There are 3 phase circuits with different voltages.\n\n\tBringing in a 3 phase feed to your house is usually\n\tridiculously expensive, or impossible. If the equipment you\n\twant to run has a standard motor mount, it is *MUCH* cheaper to\n\tbuy a new 110V or 220V motor for it. In some cases it is\n\tpossible to run 3 phase equipment on ordinary power if you have\n\ta \"capacitor start\" unit, or use a larger motor as a\n\t(auto-)generator. These are tricky, but are a good solution if\n\tthe motor is non-standard size, or too expensive or too big to\n\treplace. The Taunton Press book ``The Small Shop'' has an\n\tarticle on how to do this if you must.\n\n\tNote that you lose any possible electrical efficiency by using\n\tsuch a converter. The laws of thermodynamics guarantee that.\n\nSubject: Is it better to run motors at 110 or 220?\n\n\tTheoretically, it doesn't make any difference. However, there\n\tis a difference is the amount of power lost in the supply\n\twiring. All things being equal, a 220V motor will lose 4 times\n\tless power in the house wiring than a 110V motor. This also\n\tmeans that the startup surge loss will be less, and the motor\n\twill get to speed quicker. And in some circumstances, the\n\tsmaller power loss will lead to longer motor life.\n\n\tThis is usually irrelevant unless the supply wires are more\n\tthan 50 feet long.\n\nSubject: What is this nonsense about 3HP on 110V 15A circuits?\n\n\tIt is a universal physical law that 1 HP is equal to 746\n\twatts. Given heating loss, power factor and other inefficiencies,\n\tit is usually best to consider 1 HP is going to need 1000-1200\n\twatts. A 110V 15A circuit can only deliver 1850 watts to a motor,\n\tso it cannot possibly be more than approximately 2 HP. Given rational\n\tefficiency factors, 1.5HP is more like it.\n\n\tSome equipment manufacturers (Sears in particular, most router\n\tmanufacturers in general ;-) advertise a HP rating that is far\n\tin excess of what is possible. They are giving you a \"stall\n\thorsepower\" or similar. That means the power is measured when\n\tthe motor is just about to stop turning because of the load.\n\tWhat they don't mention is that if you kept it in that\n\tcondition for more than a few seconds hopefully your breaker\n\twill trip, otherwise the motor will melt -- it's drawing far\n\tmore current than it can continuously.\n\n\tWhen comparing motors, compare the continuous horsepower. This\n\tshould be on the motor nameplate. If you can't find that figure,\n\tcheck the amperage rating, which is always present.\n\nSubject: How do I convert two prong receptacles to three prong?\n\n\tOlder homes frequently have two-prong receptacles instead\n\tof the more modern three. These receptacles have no safety\n\tground, and the cabling usually has no ground wire. Neither\n\tthe NEC or CEC permits installing new 2 prong receptacles anymore.\n\n\tThere are several different approaches to solving this:\n\t 1) If the wiring is done through conduit or BX, and the\n\t conduit is continuous back to the panel, you can connect\n\t the third prong of a new receptacle to the receptacle\n\t box. NEC mainly - CEC frowns on this practise.\n\t 2) If there is a copper cold water pipe going nearby, and\n\t it's continuous to the main house ground point, you can\n\t run a conductor to it from the third prong.\n\t 3) Run a ground conductor back to the main panel.\n\t 4) Easiest: install a GFCI receptacle. The ground lug\n\t should not be connected to anything, but the GFCI\n\t protection itself will serve instead. The GFCI\n\t will also protect downstream (possibly also two prong\n\t outlets). If you do this to protect downstream outlets,\n\t the grounds must not be connected together. Since it\n\t wouldn't be connected to a real ground, a wiring fault\n\t could energize the cases of 3 prong devices connected\n\t to other outlets. Be sure, though, that there aren't\n\t indirect ground plug connections, such as via the sheath\n\t on BX cable.\n\n\tThe CEC permits you to replace a two prong receptacle with a three\n\tprong if you fill the U ground with a non-conducting goop.\n\tLike caulking compound. This is not permitted in the NEC.\n\nSubject: Are you sure about GFCIs and ungrounded outlets?\n\tShould the test button work?\n\n\tWe're sure about what the NEC and CEC say. Remember, though,\n\tthat your local codes may vary. As for the TEST button -- there's\n\ta resistor connecting the LOAD side of the hot wire to the LINE\n\tside of the neutral wire when you press the TEST button. Current\n\tthrough this resistor shows up as an imbalance, and trips the GFCI.\n\tThis is a simple, passive, and reliable test, and doesn't require\n\ta real ground to work. If your GFCI does not trip when you press\n\tthe TEST button, it is very probably defective or miswired. Again:\n\tif the test button doesn't work, something's broken, and potentially\n\tdangerous. The problem should be corrected immediately.\n\n\tThe instructions that come with some GFCIs specify that the ground\n\twire must be connected. We do not know why they say this. The\n\tcauses may be as mundane as an old instruction sheet, or with the\n\tformalities of UL or CSA listing -- perhaps the device was never\n\ttested without the ground wire being connected. On the other hand,\n\tUL or CSA approval should only have been granted if the device\n\tbehaves properly in *all* listed applications, including ungrounded\n\toutlet replacement. (One of us called Leviton; their GFCIs are\n\tlabeled for installation on grounded circuits only. The technician\n\twas surprised to see that; he agreed that the NEC does not require\n\tit, and promised to investigate.)\n\nSubject: How should I wire my shop?\n\n\tAs with any other kind of wiring, you need enough power for all\n\tdevices that will be on simultaneously. The code specifies\n\tthat you should stay under 80% of the nominal capacity of the\n\tcircuit. For typical home shop use, this means one circuit for\n\tthe major power tools, and possibly one for a dust collector or\n\tshop vac. Use at least 12 gauge wire -- many power tools have\n\tbig motors, with a big start-up surge. If you can, use 20 amp\n\tbreakers (NEC), though CEC requires standard 20A receptacles\n\twhich means you'd have to \"replug\" all your equipment. Lights\n\tshould either be on a circuit of their own -- and not shared\n\twith circuits in the rest of the house -- or be on at least two\n\tseparate circuits. The idea is that you want to avoid a\n\tsituation where a blade is still spinning at several thousand\n\tRPM, while you're groping in the dark for the OFF switch.\n\n\tDo install lots of outlets. It's easier to install them in the\n\tbeginning, when you don't have to cut into an existing cable.\n\tIt's useful if at least two circuits are accessible at each\n\tpoint, so you can run a shop vac or a compressor at the same\n\ttime as the tool you really want. But use metal boxes and\n\tplates, and maybe even metal-sheathed cable; you may have\n\tobjects flying around at high speeds if something goes a bit\n\twrong.\n\n\tNote that some jurisdictions have a \"no horizontal wiring\"\n\trule in workshops or other unfinished areas that are used\n\tfor working. What this means is that all wiring must be\n\trun along structural members. Ie: stapled to studs.\n\n\tOther possible shop circuits include heater circuits, 220V\n\tcircuits for some large tools, and air compressor circuits.\n\tDon't overload circuits, and don't use extension cords if you\n\tcan help it, unless they're rated for high currents. (A coiled\n\textension cord is not as safe as a straight length of wire of\n\tthe same gauge. Also, the insulation won't withstand as much\n\theat, and heat dissipation is the critical issue.)\n\n\tIf your shop is located at some remove from your main panel,\n\tyou should probably install a subpanel, and derive your shop\n\twiring from it. If you have young children, you may want to\n\tequip this panel with a cut-off switch, and possibly a lock.\n\tIf you want to install individual switches to ``safe''\n\tparticular circuits, make sure you get ones rated high enough.\n\tFor example, ordinary light switches are not safely able to\n\thandle the start-up surge generated by a table saw. Buy\n\t``horsepower-rated'' switches instead.\n\n\tFinally, note that most home shops are in garages or unfinished\n\tbasements; hence the NEC requirements for GFCIs apply. And\n\teven if you ``know'' that you'd never use one of your shop\n\toutlets to run a lawn mower, the next owner of your house might\n\thave a different idea.\n\n\tNote: Fine Woodworking magazine often carries articles on shop\n\twiring. April 1992 is one place to start.\n\nSubject: Underground Wiring\n\n\tYou will need to prepare a trench to specifications, use\n\tspecial wire, protect the wire with conduit or special plastic\n\ttubing and possibly lumber (don't use creosoted lumber, it rots\n\tthermoplastic insulation and acts as a catalyst in the corrosion\n\tof lead). The transition from in-house to underground wire is\n\tgenerally via conduit. All outdoor boxes must be specifically\n\tlisted for the purpose, and contain the appropriate gaskets,\n\tfittings, etc. If the location of the box is subject to immersion\n\tin water, a more serious style of water-proof box is needed. And\n\tof course, don't forget the GFCIs.\n\n\tThe required depths and other details vary from jurisdiction to\n\tjurisdiction, so we suggest you consult your inspector about\n\tyour specific situation.\n\n\tA hint: buy a roll of bright yellow tape that says \"buried power\n\tline\" and bury it a few inches above where the wire has been placed.\n\nSubject: Aluminum wiring\n\n\tDuring the 1970's, aluminum (instead of copper) wiring became\n\tquite popular and was extensively used. Since that time,\n\taluminum wiring has been implicated in a number of house fires,\n\tand most jurisdictions no longer permit it in new installations.\n\tWe recommend, even if you're allowed to, that do not use it for new\n\twiring.\n\n\tBut don't panic if your house has aluminum wiring. Aluminum\n\twiring, when properly installed, can be just as safe as copper.\n\tAluminum wiring is, however, very unforgiving of improper\n\tinstallation. We will cover a bit of the theory behind potential\n\tproblems, and what you can do to make your wiring safe.\n\n\tThe main problem with aluminum wiring is a phenomenon known as\n\t\"cold creep\". When aluminum wiring warms up, it expands. When\n\tit cools down, it contracts. Unlike copper, when aluminum goes\n\tthrough a number of warm/cool cycles it loses a bit of tightness each\n\ttime. To make the problem worse, aluminum oxidises, or corrodes\n\twhen in contact with certain types of metal, so the resistance\n\tof the connection goes up. Which causes it to heat up and corrode/\n\toxidize still more. Eventually the wire may start getting very hot,\n\tmelt the insulation or fixture it's attached to, and possibly even\n\tcause a fire.\n\n\tSince people usually encounter aluminum wiring when they move\n\tinto a house built during the 70's, we will cover basic points of\n\tsafe aluminum wiring. We suggest that, if you're considering purchasing\n\ta home with aluminum wiring, or have discovered it later, that you\n\thire a licensed electrician or inspector to check over the wiring\n\tfor the following things:\n\n\t 1) Fixtures (eg: outlets and switches) directly attached to\n\t aluminum wiring should be rated for it. The device will\n\t be stamped with \"Al/Cu\" or \"CO/ALR\". The latter supersedes\n\t the former, but both are safe. These fixtures are somewhat\n\t more expensive than the ordinary ones.\n\n\t 2) Wires should be properly connected (at least 3/4 way around\n\t the screw in a clockwise direction). Connections should be\n\t tight. While repeated tightening of the screws can make the\n\t problem worse, during the inspection it would pay off to snug\n\t up each connection.\n\n\t Note that aluminum wiring is still often used for the\n\t main service entrance cable. It should be inspected.\n\n\t 3) \"push-in\" terminals are an extreme hazard with aluminum wire.\n\t Any connections using push-in terminals should be redone with\n\t the proper screw connections immediately.\n\n\t 4) There should be no signs of overheating: darkened connections,\n\t melted insulation, or \"baked\" fixtures. Any such damage should\n\t be repaired.\n\t \n\t 5) Connections between aluminum and copper wire need to be\n\t handled specially. Current Canadian codes require that the\n\t wire nut used must be specially marked for connecting\n\t aluminum to copper. The NEC requires that the wire be\n\t connected together using special crimp devices, with an\n\t anti-oxidant grease. The tools and materials for the latter\n\t are quite expensive - not practical to do it yourself unless\n\t you can rent the tool.\n\n\t 6) Any non-rated receptacle can be connected to aluminum wiring\n\t by means of a short copper \"pigtail\". See (5) above.\n\t \n\t 7) Shows reasonable workmanship: neat wiring, properly stripped\n\t (not nicked) wire etc.\n \n\tIf, when considering purchasing a home, an inspection of the wiring\n\tshows no problems or only one or two, we believe that you can consider\n\tthe wiring safe. If there are signs of problems in many places,\n\twe suggest you look elsewhere. If the wrong receptacles are used,\n\tyou can replace them with the proper type, or use pigtails - having\n\tthis professionally done can range from $3 to $10 per receptacle/switch.\n\tYou can do this yourself too.\n\nSubject: I'm buying a house! What should I do?\n\n\tCongratulations. But... It's generally a good idea to hire\n\tan inspector to look through the house for hidden gotchas.\n\tNot just for wiring, but plumbing and structural as well. If an\n\tinspection of the wiring shows no problems or only one or two minor\n\tones, we believe that you can consider the wiring safe (after any\n\tminor problems are fixed). If there are signs of problems in many\n\tplaces, we suggest you look elsewhere.\n\n\tHere's some hints on what to look for:\n\n\tObvious non-code wiring can include:\n\n\t\t- Zip cord wiring, either concealed or nailed to walls\n\t\t- Hot wiring on the identified (neutral) conductor without\n\t\t proper marking.\n\t\t- Ungrounded grounding outlets (except when downstream of\n\t\t a GFCI)\n\t\t- Splices hanging in mid-air (other than proper knob-and-tube)\n\t\t- Switched neutrals\n\t\t- Unsecured Romex swinging about like grapevines\n\n\tCertain wiring practises that are actually to code (or were at one\n\ttime) sometimes reveal DIY wiring that may have hidden violations:\n\n\t\t- Switches that seem to control nothing (abandoned, perhaps\n\t\t not properly terminated wiring)\n\t\t- A wall switch that shuts off a group of lights that are\n\t\t separately controlled by other wall switches. (except when\n\t\t it's *really* convenient ;-)\n\t\t- Switches and outlets in bizarre locations\n\t\t- Great numbers of junction boxes without outlets or lamps\n\t\t- Junction boxes with great numbers of wires going into them\n\t\t- Wiring that passes through a closet instead of a wall or\n\t\t ceiling\n\t\t- Backwrapped grounding wires\n\nSubject: What is this weird stuff? Old style wiring\n\t\n\tIn the years since Edison \"invented\" electricity, several different\n\twiring \"styles\" have come and gone. When you buy an older home you\n\tmay encounter some of this stuff. This section describes the old \n\tmethods, and some of their idiosyncrasies.\n\n\tThe oldest wiring system you're likely to encounter is called\n\t\"knob and tube\" (K&T). It is made up of individual conductors with\n\ta cloth insulation. The wires are run along side structural\n\tmembers (eg: joists or studs) using ceramic stand-offs (knobs).\n\tWire is run through structural members using ceramic tubes. Connections\n\twere made by twisting the wire together, soldering, and wrapping\n\twith tape. Since the hot and neutral were run separately,\n\tthe wiring tends to be rather confusing. A neutral often runs\n\tdown the centre of each room, with \"taps\" off to each fixture.\n\tThe hot wire tended to run from one fixture to the next. In some\n\tcases K&T isn't colour-coded, so the neutral is often the same\n\tcolour as the hot wires.\n\n\tYou'll see K&T in homes built as late as the 40's.\n\n\tComments on K&T:\n\n\t\t- the people installing K&T were pretty paranoid about\n\t\t electricity, so the workmanship tends to be pretty good.\n\t\t- The wire, insulation and insulators tend to stand up\n\t\t very well. Most K&T I've seen, for example, is in\n\t\t quite good condition.\n\t\t- No grounding. Grounding is usually difficult to install.\n\t\t- boxes are small. Receptacle replacement (particularly with\n\t\t GFCI) can be difficult. No bushing on boxes either,\n\t\t so wiring changes need special attention to box entry.\n\t\t- Sometimes the neutral isn't balanced very well between\n\t\t separately hot circuits, so it is sometimes possible to\n\t\t overload the neutral without exceeding the fusing on\n\t\t any circuit.\n\t\t- Building code does not permit insulation in walls\n\t\t that contain K&T.\n\t\t- Connection to existing K&T from new circuits can be\n\t\t tricky. Consult your inspector.\n\t\t- Modern wiring practise requires considerably more\n\t\t outlets to be installed than K&T systems did.\n\t\n\tSince K&T tends to be in pretty decent condition it generally isn't\n\tnecessary to replace it simply because it's K&T. What you should\n\twatch out for is renovations that have interfered with it and\n\tbe cautious about circuit loading. In many cases it's perfectly\n\treasonable to leave existing K&T alone, and add new fixtures on\n\tnew circuits using modern techniques.\n\t\n\tAfter K&T, they invented multi-conductor cable. The first type\n\tyou will see is roughly a cloth and varnish insulation. It looks\n\tmuch like the romex cable of the last decade or two. This stuff was\n\tused in the 40's and 50's. Again, no grounding conductor.\n\tIt was installed much like modern wiring. Its major drawback\n\tis that this type of insulation embrittles. We've seen whole\n\tsystems where the insulation would fracture and fall off at\n\ta touch. BX cable of the same vintage has similar problems.\n\n\tThis stuff is very fragile, and becomes rather hazardous if\n\tthe wires become bare. This wiring should be left untouched as\n\tmuch as possible - whenever an opportunity arises, replace it.\n\tA simple receptacle or switch replacement can turn into a several\n\thour long frustrating fight with electrical tape or heat-shrink\n\ttubing.\n\n\tAfter this wiring technique, the more modern romex was invented.\n\tIt's almost a asphalt impregnated cloth. Often a bit sticky.\n\tThis stuff stands up reasonably well and doesn't present a hazard\n\tand is reasonably easy to work with. It does not need to be\n\treplaced - it should be considered as safe as the \"modern\" stuff -\n\tthermoplastic insulation wire. Just don't abuse it too much.\n\nSubject: Where do I buy stuff?\n\n\tTry to find a proper electrical supply outlet near you. Their\n\tprices will often be considerably better than chain hardware stores or\n\tDIY centres, have better quality materials, have wider variety\n\tincluding the \"odd\" stuff, and have people behind the counter that\n\tknow what you're talking about. Cultivate friendly knowledgeable\n\tsales people. They'll give you much valuable information.", "(1) Is it possible to change the icons in the program groups? I'd like\n to give them some individuality.\n\n(2) Can you set up a short-cut key to return to the Program Manager? \n I know , will do it, but I'd rather set it up so I \n can avoid the task list and get back to the P/M with .\n\nAny and all help is welcomed.\n", "I consider TWM-style Squeezed Titles indispensable in a window\nmanager. I like to have two tall xterm windows visible at the same\ntime, with no overlap; and since two windows aren't enough, I have\nother xterm windows underneath them, with exactly the same positioning.\n\nIn case you're not familiar with Squeezed Titles, here's a crude\npicture:\n\n ====================== Figure 1 ====================================\n |\n | +---------+ +---------+ +=========+\n | + title A + + title B + + title C +\n | +------------------------+ +------------------------------+\n | + this is the + + window B hides window C, but +\n | + body of the + + you can still see C's title +\n | + window, window A + + which is squeezed right. +\n | +------------------------+ +------------------------------+\n |\n ====================== Figure 1 ====================================\n\nSqueezed titles allow me to have about 5 such windows in each stack,\nwith easy access; and 3 per stack is usually more than I really\nneed, since I also insist on having a virtual WM.\n\nThe only problem is that the title location is static, that is, it\nis configured in .twmrc, and in order to change it you have to edit\nthat file and restart the window manager. Doing so is cumbersome and\ntime-consuming.\n\nTherefore, I have implemented f.squeeze{ left, center, right }\nfunctions in my own copy of vtwm; the idea being that with one click\nof a button, you can change this:\n\n +---------+\n + title A +\n +------------------------+\n + this is the +\n + body of the +\n + window, window A +\n +------------------------+\n\nto this:\n\n +---------+\n + title A +\n +------------------------+\n + this is the +\n + body of the +\n + window, window A +\n +------------------------+\n\n ===============\n\nOkay. So far, so good. Now, how the heck do I get them to put this\ninto the next \"official\" twm, and the next tvtwm, and the next vtwm,\nand the next ctwm? And the next xyztwm that I never heard of?\n\nOne way would be to post, in comp.windows.x, a description of this\nenhancement, together with an explanation of why I think it is a\nVery Good Thing, and hope that someone reads it. :-)\n\nIn case it isn't already clear why I think it's a Very Good Thing,\nlook back up at Figure 1, and picture window A moved over on top of\nwindows B and C; now window A's title hides Window B's title;\nbut when you hit f.squeezecenter, the result is:\n\n +=========+ +---------+ +=========+\n + title B + + title A + + title C +\n +-------------------------------------+\n + this is the body of the window, +\n + window A, which is on top. +\n +-------------------------------------+\n\n ===================\n\nThe rest of this posting explains how to implement it, based on my\nX11R4 copy of vtvwm.shar; it's just a sketch because posting the\nfull diffs would be too long.\n\nThe key to this enhancement is to add the following lines in the\nExecuteFunction() routine in menus.c:\n\n#ifdef SHAPE\n\tcase F_SQUEEZELEFT:\n\t{\tstatic SqueezeInfo left_squeeze = { J_LEFT, 0, 0 };\n\t\tif (DeferExecution (context, func, Scr->SelectCursor))\n\t\t return TRUE;\n\n\t\ttmp_win->squeeze_info = &left_squeeze;\n\t\tSetFrameShape( tmp_win );\n\t\tbreak;\n\t}\n\t.... and similarly for squeezeright ( J_RIGHT ) and\n\tsqueezecenter ( J_CENTER ) ...\n#endif\n\n( Of course, you also have to define F_SQUEEZELEFT in parse.h\n and add\n { \"f.squeezeleft\", FKEYWORD, F_SQUEEZELEFT },\n ... and so forth ...\nto parse.c\n\nIn order to use these functions, add something like the\nfollowing to your .twmrc file:\n\nButton2 = m | s : w|v|d|r|i|t|door : f.squeezecenter\n\n =================\n\nAbout a year ago, I posted this, but our news was broken and I\n*think* it didn't get out.\n\nSince then, \"blast\" has appeared in comp.sources.x, Volume 19,\nIssue 41; you could use blast to achieve a similar effect, by\nchiseling away at an mwm-style wide title. Better to have a\ntwm-style window manager, I think.\n\n--\nRalph Betza (FM),\nuunet!ssiny!gnohmon gnohmon@ssiny.com", "Probably won't help. I'd be willing to bet that _every_ manufacturer\nused those little self-contained modules. I think Sharp made them.\nRadio Shack used to sell them for a few bucks (maybe they still do.)\n\nThe module had 3 leads: power, ground and demodulated output. It\ncontained the photo-detector, amplifier, integrator and demodulator\nall in a tiny metal can.\n\nIf you want to buy one, try Radio Shack, or else a TV repair shop can\nprobably order one. BTW - the carrier frequency is 40 KHz, and each\ndifferent TV/VCR/cable box/stereo manufacturer uses a unique pulse\nscheme to perform each different function on their equipment.\n", "Hi all,\n\nI'm an assistant manager at a local art theater here in Columbus. I'd\nlike to expand our show automation a bit- namely add the capability to\nuse cue tapes to bring the houselights up. Our current automation\nconsoles date from the early 60's and don't provide this function.\n\nWe already have the combo failsafe/contact rollers to read the cuetapes,\nand our dimmer system will raise the houselights when its fade-up control\ncircuit (120 VAC) is momentarily closed, for at least 0.5 second.\n\nI've tried wiring the dimmer control to a 12V relay, activated when the\ncue tape completes the circuit. Low tech and simple, but there's one\nproblem: In order to get the 1/2 second pulse, there needs to be\na sh**load of cuetape on the film. (35mm runs at 90 feet per minute,\nso to get a 1/2 second pulse, there needs to be at least 9 inches of solid\ncuetape!)\n\nIdeally, I would like to use a single cross-cue to accomplish this function.\n(A single strip of cuetape perpendicular to the length of the film)\nThis would give a pulse of approximately 1/100 of a second.\nWhat I need is a circuit to detect the short cue and activate the relay\nfor around 1/2 second. The ability to adjust how long the relay\nis activated would be nice. I figure this would require an RC circuit\nof some sort. I'm sure some of you already have the solution figured\nout in your heads. Any suggestions and schematics would be appreciated!\n\n\nThanks,\n\nMark Fontana\n", "I am having the problem of ensuring point-to-focus when the mouse\ncursor enters a window in my application. I'm using InterViews,\nbut that may not matter, this seems to be a generic problem in X.\nFor example, I use OpenWindows on a Sparc2, with point-to-focus\nset, and that generally works, but not always, depending on what\nwas going on in some window when I move the cursor from one shell\ntool window to another. Or so it seems...\n\nMy question, then, is what can I do within X to guarantee point-to-\nfocus within my application? Thanks for any response.", "\nJust ask postmaster for the e-mail address of the printer. :-)", "\nSorry Ian, I haven't toyed with it in several years. I haven't seen\nthe insides in quite a few years. I just saw the post lagging for\nquite a few days, and thought I'd toss in my $0.02. I assume the 6507\nwas functionally similar to the 6502 (was it also made by MOS\nTechnologies?). I really am more versed in the (6502 based) Atari\ncomputers. The 2600 came later on.\n\n\nIn the Atari computers, the \"CIA\" chip you refer to sounds an awful\nlot like the CTIA (Color Television Interface Adapter) chip used in\nthe early models. Later Atari upgraded this to the GTIA (Graphics\n...). Other colorful literature stated that the GTIA might have stood\nfor \"George,\" the developer of the chip.\n\n\nFunny, I had an old and new model. The old one was SIGNIFICANTLY heavier.\n\n\nSorry, I am way out of line here. My first microcontroller I built was\na MC68701 based chipset with 128 bytes onboard. That was not easy to\nwork with (in addtion to a small 2K on-board EPROM).", "Hello,\n\n I have three software packages for sale:\n\n 1. The Norton pcANYWHERE version 4.5 for dos. This software\n include host and remote software. It can control both\n dos and windows 3.1 (both standard and enhanced modes)\n activities. Registration card is enclosed.\n\n Price: $40.00\n\n 2. The Norton AntiVirus for windows and dos version 2.1. It\n can update virus information any time. It also support\n networks. Registration card is enclosed.\n\n Price: $40.00\n\n 3. DeltaGraph Professional for Windows 3.1. This is the BEST\n graphics presentation program I have ever seen. Registration\n card is enclosed. Reg. Price: $495.00\n\n Price: $150.00\n\n Thank you for your attention.", "FOR SALE\nCANON EOS ELAN OUTFIT\n\nINCLUDED \n-EOS elan body\n-28-80 mm EF 1:3.5-5.6 USM lens\n-100-300 mm EF 1:4.%-5.6 USM lens\n-2 B&W UV filters\n-Hoya circular polarising filter\n-Canon RC-1 remote controller\n-Pentax lens cloth\n-Lowe Pro camera bag\n-Galen Rowell Photoflex lens bag\n-Sapre lithium battery\n-Hove Foto bokk user guide to Canon EOS elan\n\nAll as new condition\n\nThe whole lot $800 (firm)\n\nContact David 617-227-7326\n 617-956-6905\n", "Does anyone know of a source (book, file, etc.) of ALL the standard \nresource names in X11R5? A small description of what the resource\nIS would also be helpful, but not vital. Any help in which direction\nto go would be greatly appreciated.\n\nThanks. \nRobin Kinzy\n\n =================================================================\n =================================================================\n\n", "Hi folks,\n]\nDoes anybody know for a good 32-bit C++/C compiler for OS/2 that supports\nOS/2 API and Microsoft windows (maybe Windows NT)?\n\nthanx", "\nYou are correct; the fastest \"complete\" image that could be presented on\nTV would be one field, which is 1/60 of a second (approximately). Of course,\nthe phrase \"TV screen\" is often thrown around in reference to any CRT\ndisplay, so perhaps this researcher wasn't using normal TV rates. Might\neven be a vector (\"strokewriter\") display, in which case the lower limit\non image time is anyone's guess (and is probably phosphor-persistence limited).\n", "HELP! I really got ripped off and I need some help unripping myself.\n\nI bought a Maxtor 4380 300mb ESDI HDD from Hi-Tech for $300, then paid to\nget it repaired, for about another $300. Here's the deal: The thing works\nfine! It low level formats, etc without any bad spots at all! AND THEN...\n(Jaws Music) sectors start going bad! EEK!!! One at a time. Norton disk\ndoctor keeps marking some U and some C. That FIXES it. For about 5 minutes.\n\nThen next day when I run NDD on it again: NO DICE more uncorrectable and\ncorrectable sectors. AHHHHHUUUURRRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!! So I fugure: \"Ok, NDD's\njust not being thurough enough, I'll use Spinrite, I heard that works well.\"\nWhat happens? Spinrite goes and returns the clusters to active use!!! \nAHHHUUUURRRRRRGGGGGHHHH!!!! NDD undoes it of course. The problem seams to\nbe getting worse and worse. HOWEVER when the HDD is low level formatted\nagain the problem goes away for a while, only to return in a day or so.\n\nI'm so pissed off right now I'm considering buying another HDD, and I really\ncan't afford it.\n\nI'm using SMARTDRIVE, and WINDOWS 3.1 (I'm not using the 32 bit disk access\nthough, I know that can create problems). The disk is using the second\noption to trick the controller into thinking it's got less then 1024 cyls,\nand everything else selected is standard, maybe I need to use a different\nhead skew or something? I don't know.\n\nANYONE WHO KNOWS HOW TO FIX THIS PROBLEM PLEASE TELL ME HOW!!!! HELP!!!!", "\nI have the ARRL Handbook for the Radio AMateur, and I'm getting the\nSolid STate Design for the Radio Amateur.", "Here is your chance to have a full UNIX System at a small cost:\n\n\tI have a full set of Unix system for the AT&T 6300+ for sale.\n\tIt is version 2.5 (The latest as far as I know) and \n\tincludes all the software (1.2Meg 5.25\" floppies) and \n\tManuals for:\n\t\t- Base OS\n\t\t- Development tools (C compilers etc...)\n\t\t- Dos Merge (Simultask)\n\t\t- etc.\n\n\t(I beleive the software requires a 6300+ and will not work on\n\tany other machine)\n\n\tI also have a few AT&T 6300 and + manuals including the System \n\tProgrammers Guide if anyone is interested.\n\n\tDrop me a line with your offer if you are interested.", "Here's my system desc:\n 4 megs on the main board, 1 on the accelerator board\n mac -plus, with the most recent roms (D)\n trying to run system 6, but would like to run 7\n the hard drive is a jasmine, works fine if i start up with the \n\taccelerator disabled\n i also seem to get the problem of when i try to start up from floppy\n\twith the hard-drive disconnected, all i get is the disk loading,\n\tbut the screen is black, except for a happy mac in the middle,\n\tand it never gets anywhere\n-Jason\n", "Does anyone know how to reach Micron? I am interested in getting some\nspecifics about what types of monitors work with their Micron Xceed\ncard for the se/30. either e-mail or phone number would be prefered.\nOr if you have the answers to my questions, i'd appreciate a reply.\n\nThanks.\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------\njulia hsieh My opinions are not intended to reflect\nhsieh@ipld01.hac.com those of Hughes Aircraft Company.", "SCO ODT allows to adapt the X-Server to any non-standard (AT) keyboard \nusing the Xkeyboard configuration compiler xsconfig. SCO provides some\nconfiguration files in /usr/lib/X11/xsconfig/*.kbd, e.g. for \nSiemens WX200.\n\nQuestion:\nIs there anywhere a configuration file for the HP46021A keyboard\navailable ? \nI am especially interested in using the HP specific keys such as \n\"InsertLine\", \"Menu\".", "Pioneer CT-W601R Double Cassette Deck\n\n-Auto BLE Tuning\n-CD Deck Syncro Recording\n-music search, high speed dubbing, other standard features.\n\nLess than one year old. Excellent condition. $200 firm.", "\n\n\nI understand there have been a couple of raves in LA billing themselves as\n\"Virtual Reality\" parties. What I hear they do is project .GIF images around\non the walls, as well as run animations through a Newtek Toaster.\n\nSeems like we need to adopt the term Really Virtual Reality or something, except\nfor the non-immersive stuff which is Virtually Really Virtual Reality.\n\n\netc.\n\n\n\n\n___Samuel___", "Does anyone know of a VL-Bus video card based on the ET4000 /W32 card?\nIf so: how much will it cost, where can I get one, does it come with more\nthan 1MB of ram, and what is the windows performance like?\n", "Any new reports about iisi clock upgrade to 25 mhz, 33 mhz?\nAny failures?", "Earlier today I read an ad for REAL-3D animation & ray-tracing software and\nit looked very convincing to me. However, I don't own an Amiga and so I began \nto wonder, if there's a PC version of it.\n\nSo, has anyone seen/used REAl-3D for DOS??\n", ": >\tI have an Ethernet card that i took out off an old LC. The card\n: >\tis manufactured by Asante. On it i can read:\n: >\t\"Asante Tech, inc. Copyright 1991. MACCON + LC REV.B\".\n: >\tThe card has an fpu socket on it. It provides thin Ethernet connector\n: >\tand there's another connector on it which resembels to phone connectors.\n: >\n: >\tMy questions are:\n: >\t- Will this card work on any other model than LC-serie ?, given that\n: >\tit's a PDS card, will it work with the IIsi PDS slot ?. I think there\n: >\tmay be a probleme because the LC has 16 bit wide slots.\n: It probably won't work with any other LC. The ones I have for the LC II\n: are Rev. D. No, it won't work in the IIsi's PDS slot since it's a 68030\n: PDS, while the LC has the 68020 PDS. The IIsi and SE/30 share the same\n: kind of card.\n\n Ok, i see. Does Asante propose any upgrade for their cards ?. Do they have\n an email adress so i can ask them directly ?. Their Phone number will be\n Ok, even if i pay the overseas call i'm really willing to know what to do\n with this card.\n", "\n\nF A Q !\n\nReference:\nNewsgroups: comp.sys.mac.apps,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,\n\tcomp.sys.mac.wanted,comp.sys.mac.hardware,comp.answers,news.answers\nSubject: Introductory Macintosh frequently asked questions (FAQ)", "From article , by ardie@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Ardie Mack):\n\nEMM386 is NOT reqired to load the DOS kernal high (or else you couldn't\ndo it on a 286). In a mail message I recommended that he remove it\nsince he only runs ProcomPlus frequently in DOS, and I suspect\nEMM386 will slow down windows.", " Digitally-tuned shorwave radio with alarm clock and 5 presets per band.\n Has AM, FM, SW1, and SW2 bands. Asking $25 + shppg.\n Reply for more details. Thanks Pete 3mwieu4@cmuvm.cmich.edu\n", "\nThere would be no problems as long as the OS didn't set up a DMA transfer\nto an area above the 16 mb area (the DMA controller probably can't be\nprogrammed that way anyways, so there probably isin't a problem with this)", "I have following softwares for sale:\n\nNEW ITEMS (never opened):\n1. Lucid 3-D, three dimensional spreadsheet:\n with pull-down menus, on-line help, up to 8 pages of notes behind every\n cell for dynamic detail, 3-D capability, compatible with Lotus 1-2-3, etc.\n $15 including shipping (manual, 5.25\" disks)\n\n2. Turbo Pascal Express\n with 250 ready-to-run assembly language routines that make Turbo Pascal\n faster, more powerful, and easier to use.\n Book and 2 5.25\" disks\n $15 (including shipping)\n\n3. Dr. Halo III\n much more than an icon driven paint program - it's a complete page \n composition and presentation graphics package. Automatic aspect ratio\n correction for WYSIWYG printing. True color or grey scale output and partial screen prints.\n 3 5.25\" disks and manual\n $12 (including shipping)\n\n4. Key Form Designer Plus\n software for making professional business forms.\n 3.5\" disks and manual\n $25 plus shipping OBO\n\n\nLike-new items (package is opened but not registered):\n1. JetFighter II\n Advanced tactical fighter F-23 as well as F-14, F-16, F/A-18, and F-22.\n 3.25\" disks and manuals\n $30 plus Shipping OBO\n\n2. Nighthwak F-117A Stealth Fighter 2.0\n The definitive simulation of America's radar-elusive jet.\n Sensational sound, nine world's \"hot spots\": Cuba, North Korea, the Kuwaiti T Theatre of operations, central Europe, the North Cape, Libya, the persian Gul f, Vietnam and the Middle East. Awesome missions to challenge you.\n 5.25\" disks and manual\n $35 plus shipping OBO\n\n3. Grammatik IV - $20 plus shipping\n\n4. Quattro Pro 1.0 - make an offer\n\n5. GEM chart, graphics, word, publisher, ... V.3.0 - make an offer.", "Hi\n\nCan someone please give me some pointers to setting up imake in a SUN OPENWINDOWS\nenviornment ? I've checked through all the documentation but can not find any clues.\n\nPlease respons via e-mail.....\n\nThanks\n\nPaul\n\n", "\nIt's not true. IDE bus uses signals which has similar name and same\nmeaning to the counterpart of ISA bus but its (IDE bus) signal timing\ndoesn't have to be same to ISA signal timing. My VL-IDE bus card has\na set of jumpers to set its transfer rate from 3.3MB/sec up to 8.3MB/\nsec (the manufacturer might have to correct these numbers as 3.3\n*milion* byte/sec and 8.3 *milion* byte/sec respectively). You\ncannot transfer data at a rate of 8.3MB/sec on the ISA bus.\n\n\nKen Nakata", "\n\nActually, IFF is a *format standard*. It is not a picture file format, sound\nfile format, but there exist several formats that use the IFF standard. The\nIFF picture standard used by mostly everybody is a FORM ILBM (or just ILBM).\nThe only 3D IFF specification I know of is TDDD, which is used by Imagine and\nit's predecessor, Turbo Silver. It is possible that some of the other Amiga\npackages use another *IFF* spec, but I don't know of any. Lightwave will load\nTDDD FORM's I believe.\n", "[ Article crossposted from comp.speech,comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard,comp.os.linux ]\n[ Author was MARIO LAURETTI ]\n[ Posted on Mon, 5 Apr 1993 21:44:24 GMT ]\n\nI Have a Sound Blaster ver 1.5\n\nWhen I try to install driver ver 1.5 (driver that comes with window 3.1)\nIt tell me to upgrade my card first!!!????\n\nNow, I have found new drivers from Creative labs.\n\nBut I have problems installing it:\n\nAfter removing the vsbd.386 (old version that come in windows)\nAfter installing Creative Sound Blaster - MIDI Synthesizer\n\nI try to install Creative Sound Blaster 1.5 Wave...\n\nBut when I am in the menu: Add Unlisted or Updated Driver\nand double click on this driver, I have this error:\n\n--------------------------Driver Error---------------------------\n\nCannot load Creative Sound Blaster 1.5 Wave and MIDI driver. The driver file\nmay be missing. Try installing the driver again, or contact your system\nadministrator.\n\nYes, yes, yes, I have read the README.1st and try every thing!\n\ncan somebody help me??\n\n\nMario Laureti", "Do you need to get a ROM upgrade to use a 1.4 Mb floppy drive with\na Mac II? Or are there 3rd party drives which work with the Mac II's\nown ROMs?\n\nThanks,\nRalph\n-- \nRalph Gonzalez, Computer Science, Rutgers Univ., Camden, NJ\nPhone: (609) 225-6122; Internet: rgonzal@gandalf.rutgers.edu", "\n >I'm trying to locate the Type1 rasterizer that IBM donated to The X\n >consortium. I've found patches to it but not the original source.\n\n It's on the R5 \"contrib\" tape.\n\n -Mike Glendinning, Ingres UK (mikeg@ingres.co.uk).\n\nYes I found it there. Thanks everyone.\n\nThomas", "A quick query for Powerbook gurus:\nTom Spearman, in a post on alternative Powerbook battery options\nmentioned that there exist 3 versions of their Powerbook 140-180\nbatteries: a 2.5 amp hour one (M5545/A), a 2.8 amp hour one,\n(M5545/B) and a 2.9 amp hour one (M5545/C). Anyone out there\nknow how to determine which of these a battery is? I looked at my\nbattery and there is no obvious exterior indication. I contacted\nTom Spearman who had gleaned the information from MacUser and he\ndidn't know either. Anyone out there know the answer?\n\tThanks!\n\tChristopher Majka\n\tnextug@ac.dal.ca", "\nThe problem was that TextField was improperly walking the string; it used\nthe character count instead of the byte count... a significan \"Oops\". \nThe problem has been fixed and the patch is included in the latest periodic\npatch from HP support services.", "Is there any FAQ list for Programming in X windows? ", "Where did the hacker ethic go?\n\nWe hackers of the 70's and 80' are now comfortably employed\nand supporting families. The next generation takes\nthe radical lead now. Don't look for radicalism among us\nold ones; we're gone...\n", "\nThanks for docs info. It turns out that if I leave out colormap updates between\nframes and use tvtwm, my tests with 100 400x400x8 frames on an IPX using the\nserver-resident pixmap method give an astonishing *50* frames per second! And\nVERY smooth. I think I've found the best solution (thanks to the generous help\non this group!) However, I may have colormap questions later.....\n\nDerek\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------", "I believe I have the same monitor problem. I have a system from Micron \nComputers with the 15\" Mag 1564 (the same monitor as the gateway) and am having\nthe same symptoms.\n\nWhat's this with removing the monitor extension cable?\n", "Hello all:\n\nI was wondering, is the \"Kermit\" package (the actual package, not a\ndifferent program with Kermit file transfers) available for Microsoft\nWindows 3.0/3.1?\n\nAny information would be greatly appreciated. Please e-mail or post.\n\nThanks in advance!", "I have a genie garage door transmitter forsale, this unit is a three\nbutton station. will operate three different door or gate openers.\nHas never been used, normaly goes for $45.00 Im ask $20.00 + shipping.\nIf interested please email me.", ": I need to know the Pins to connect to make a loopback connector for a serial\n: port so I can build one. The loopback connector is used to test the \n: serial port.\n: \n: Thanks for any help.\n: \n: \n: Steve\n: \nMe Too!!!!!!!\nskcgoh@tartarus.uwa.edu.au\n", "Try wuarchive.wustl.edu in the mirrors/win3 directory.\n\n", "I have a PLP II laser printer make by GCC Technologies. I have problem\nwith a dirty first page. The top portion of the first is always smeared\nwith black toner across the page. If I print more than one page at the \nsame time, the problem does not occur on other pages. I cleaned the\nprinter but still does not help. Can anyone offer any solutions?\nor know the phone # to GCC Technologies?\n\nThanks in advance\n\nCharles,", "Where is the best place to find classified type ads for used PC's? \nSeveral other computer makes have their own \".wanted\" sections on the \nUsenet. What about PC's and compatibles? Where's the cheapest place \nnationally to buy used PC systems and laptops?\n", "\nIt is said that CELP vocoders can run on the highest speed 486s with\nsome room to spare -- they turn 64kbit (8 bit samples, 8k samples/sec)\ninto 4800 baud. However, DSP is hairy, and I have yet to see actual\nproof of this in the form of an implementation. I have heard fairly\nreliable rumors to the effect that a famous internetworking guru has a\nCELP implementation that runs on Sparcstation 1+'s with some room to\nspare, but I have not succeeded thus far in getting my hands on a copy\n-- the guru in question has a reputation for not releasing code\nwithout having beaten on it for a very very long time first. \n\nDSP experts are heavily encouraged to try their own hand at this\nproblem.\n\n--\nPerry Metzger\t\tpmetzger@shearson.com", "\nAutodesk Animator is a good tool. The one I like is Show Partner/FX. If\nyou want it, I could give a copy to you. I did a lot of advertising with it -\nit lets you create both graphics (ANY resolution) and text frames, run it all\nas a \"film\", you can make choices and include music - I guess that's just\nwhat you need. If you're really interested, email me.", "\n\nIt depends on wether you are going to replace this with an icon that\ncomes standard with windows, or with an icon from some other icon manager.\n\nWell, if it is one of those that comes with windows, just highlight the \nitem by clicking once on it, click on 'File' and then on 'Properties'.\nYou should see a box which says 'Change icon'. Click on it. You are going\nto be presented with some icons (sometimes just one). If you don't like\nany of those presented, click on the 'browse' box, and look for the file\n'moricons.dll' Select it. Browse through the icons presented, and just\ndouble click on your desired icon.\n\nIf you want to replace it with an icon from some other icon manager,\nsay iconPower for instance, open the icon manager at the bottom of your\nscreen, where it will not block the application icon you wish to replace.\nWhen you have found your desired icon, click on it once, and while holding\nthe mouse button down, pull this icon over the one you wish to change.\nAnd thats it!\n\nregards\n\n___________________________________________________________________________", "ULTRIX/X11R4 to plot surfaces and contour plots from a set of {x,y,z}.\nI would really appreciate any hint on the name of such a plotting program\nand where to find it.\n Thanks for your help.\n\n\n", "Dear Mac-friends,\n\nI've seen the following problem om three Mac IIsi machines\nall with 17 Mb RAM installed (70 or 80 ns SIMMs).\n\nIf the contents of a window are being calculated and updated\na lot of strange horizontal lines are temporarily generated\non the screen. The lines translate to the top of the screen and\nhave a slightly lower brightness than their surroundings (they\nare a few millimeters apart).\nI admit that they are vague, but they can still be distinguished clearly,\nespecially if the environment (i.e. the rest of the room) is a bit dark.\nApplications which produce this effect are:\n- the previewer of DirectTeX 1.2 (i.e. DVIReader 1.2)\n- Kaleidagraph 2.1.1/FPU\n\nThe machines use their built-in video and drive the old \nApple Hires Monochrome screen (two monitors/cable sets tried). \nThe effect is independent of the settings in the following control \npanels: Memory (adressing mode, disk cache) \n and Monitors (nr of greys/colors).\n\nHave you ever seen this effect too ? Is there a solution ?\n\nThanks,\nFred", "Sorry, I did`nt tell exactly what I need.\n\nI need a utility for automatic updating (deleting, adding, changing) of *.ini files for Windows. \nThe program should run from Dos batchfile or the program run a script under Windows.\n\nI will use the utility for updating the win.ini (and other files) on meny PC`s. \n\nDo I find it on any FTP host?", "\n\nFrom the Maxtor Product Specification and OEM Manual, Doc. 1011002 Rev. F,\npage 35:\n\n J2, (20) J1 (34) POWER\n |xxxxxxxxxx| |XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX| | UUUU |\n+-----+ +--------+ +-------+ |\n\n\nThe only option you \"should\" jumper is the drive select, shown as \"4C32C1\"\nabove. There is also a drive power-up option jumper (elsewhere on the\ndrive's board) but the odds of that having been unset are slim.\n\nSince the 3B1 \"normally\" has only one HD, you would jumper betwwwn \"C1\" to\nselect the first (possible) drive address; if the 2190 is your second drive\non the 3B1, then jumper between \"2C\".", "Yes, it's easy to use. It's just like an ordinary controller.\nYou don't have to change the bios config.\n\nIt's transparent. It works with any drive. If you change the\ndrive you only need to change the bios config. as usual.\n\nYes, no problem.\n\nThat depends. You will get a little better performance\nif you use smartdrive and buffers in addition. That's\nbecause access to the card through the ISA bus is slower\nthan access to system RAM. I don't use smartdrive myself,\nbut I have a few buffers.\n", "I'm a system and network admin. One of my users has a Duo 230\n([*]specifications below) that has been having slowdown problems.\nLeaving the Duo on for several hours causes it to slow down\nunacceptably. It can take 10-15 seconds to change applications. During\nthis time it is completely hung. If he reboots, the problem goes away\n(For a while). It seems the system is getting itself into a wedged\nconfiguration.\n\nHe's re-installed System 7.1 and rebuilt the desktop. Neither of these\nhave helped. \n\nIt's possible that it's network-related, he uses Eudora which checks his\nemail every 10 minutes (over Ethernet). He hasn't checked to see if this\nproblem occurs while undocked (he's docked most of the time). \n\nLittle to no non-Apple inits, I don't want to start yanking the rest\nunless I know that might *really* be the problem. \n\nHe hasn't tried zapping the PRAM, I have advised him to do that next.\n\nAnyone who has ideas, I'd love to hear about them. I'd call Apple, but\nI've found they're best to call during the week (it's Sunday evening).\n\n\n[*] Powerbook Duo 230 16/120. 12mb RAM card from Tech Works to replace\nnon-self-refreshing 8mb card. Is using System Enabler 1.0.1. Express\nModem (including latest software). Has been to Apple Dealer for Keyboard\nreplacement. ", "\n\tI don't think the question is:\n\t\t\"will OS/2 X.X run Windows Y.Y apps now?\"\n\n\tA more important question is:\n\t\t\"will subsequent OS/2 versions continue to run apps\n\t\tfrom subsequent Windows versions in the future?\"\n\n\tCan it keep up? Will a future OS/2 3.0 run Windows 4 apps?\n\tOLE2 is very complex and is the sign of things to come.\n\tAfter this fall, I believe IBM no longer has any rights to\n\tview Microsoft code. After that, the only way to maintain\n\tsome sort of compatibility is to reverse-engineer. Would\n\tyou want to reverse-engineer an OLE2 application?\n\n", "I have heard some impressive things about Hijakk (for Windows).\nCurrently, I use a shareware program called Graphics Workshop.\nWhat kinds of things will Hijaak do that these shareware programs\nwill not do?\n\nWhat has been your experience with Hijaak? Are there other programs\nthat are better? Please email me, if you can help:\n\nWayne Haston\nHASTON@UTKVX.UTK.EDU", "I have a Onkyo integrated amplifier that I am looking to get rid of.\n\t60w/ch\n\tintegra series \n\tworks great\n\tnot a problem\n\n\tAsking $100 OBO\n\n\tIf your interested call me at (317)743-2656 or email this address.\n\tMAKE ME AN OFFER!!!\n\t \nTodd\n", "A few days ago I posted a question about trying to call a function which set\nup an X app multiple times. It was pointed out that XtAppInitialize() should\nnever be called more than once. This helped. However, I am still having\nsome problems. Below is a new little test program that more closely models\nmy real program. In the actual program, I am writing a library, callable\nfrom any other program. This means that the first time the lib function is\ncalled, it must initialize things, and after that, it should just use the\nold stuff (still around because of static variables). In the demo below,\nmain() represents the main program calling my library and doit() represents\nthe interface to the library function.\n\n#include \n#include \n#include \n#include \n#include \n\nvoid bla(XtAppContext app, Widget top)\n{\n Widget topone = top;\t\t// in real prog, these are member vars\n XtAppContext theapp = app;\t// of a class\n int junk = 0;\n Display *dis = XtOpenDisplay(theapp, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, 0, &junk,\n NULL);\n\n Widget box = XtVaCreateManagedWidget(\"blaaa\", xmPushButtonWidgetClass,\n topone,\n XmNheight, 50,\n XmNwidth, 50,\n NULL);\n\n XtRealizeWidget(topone);\n for (int i=0;i<=25;i++)\t// real prog returns when \"Exit\" button clicked\n {\n XEvent event;\n XtAppNextEvent(theapp, &event);\n XtDispatchEvent(&event);\n }\n XtDestroyWidget(box);\n XtCloseDisplay(dis);\n}\n\n// SetItUp - should be called once only\nvoid SetItUp(XtAppContext *app, Widget *top)\n{\n int junk = 0;\n (*top)=XtAppInitialize (app, \"test\", NULL, 0, &junk, NULL,\n NULL, NULL, 0);\n}\n\n// doit - some library function callable from the outside\nvoid doit()\n{\n static XtAppContext app;\t// use these every time called\n static Widget top;\n\n static int setup = 0;\n\n if (!setup)\n {\n SetItUp(&app, &top);\n setup = 1;\n }\n bla(app, top);\n}\n\n// main - program which links to my library\nmain()\n{\n for (int i=0;i<=20;i++)\n {\n doit();\n printf(\"sleeping...\\n\");//widget still on screen at this point\n sleep(5);\n }\n}\n\n\nThe problem is that the widget does not go away until the new one is created.\n(It is still on the screen -- unusuable -- during the \"sleep\" in the main prog,\ndespite the XtDestroyWidget call).\n\nAnyone see something I'm missing?\n\nThanks very much.\n\n(Please respond via email)\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDavid Rex Wood -- davewood@cs.colorado.edu -- University of Colorado at Boulder", "I have a Laserwriter IIg that has disappeared completely from the\nNetwork, i.e. it's name doesn't show up in any zone. (You can print\nto it from it's serial interface, tho!) I have seen some discussion\nhere about changing the zone a IIg is in... including some PS code\nthat lets you change the zone. Is there maybe some PS code you can\nuse to have it go back to all its factory default settings? I have\na feeling that's what needed to heal ours.", ": |> : |> None of this changes the fact that MSW3.1 is objectively inferior to its\n: |> : |> competition.\n: |> \n: |> : Do you mean that MSW3.1 is objectively inferior in _some_ respects (which\n: |> : is trivially true), that it is objectively inferior in _all_ respecets\n: |> : (which is trivially false) or do you mean something else? What criteria\n: |> : have you chosen for your objective assesment? Are you sure that these\n: |> : criteria are themselves objective?\n: |> \n: |> I believe that enough is inferior to make it overall as a product\n: |> inferior to its competition-- Apple System 7, OS/2 2.0, NeXTStep 3.0,\n: |> UNIX/Xwindows (pick your favorite flavor).\n\n: In other words, it is your *opinion* that MSW3.1 is inferior to its\n: competition. That's not the same as MSW3.1 being objectively inferior.\n\nNo. It is technically inferior to the OS/GUIs that I listed. I have already\ndescribed why. To say briefly:\n\nSystem 7 --easier to learn and use. There have been independent studies to \n that effect.\nOS/2 --Can run MSW applications and has more stable multitasking.\nNeXTSTep --easier to learn, use, and program. More stable multitasking\nUNIX/X --As easy to learn and use. More stable multitasking.\n\nWith the prpoer setup, all of these will exchange data with MSW machines as\nwell as MSW machines will amongst themselves, so interoperability is not\nan issue.\n\nBy this criterion, it is inferior. If you have another, then perhaps I am\nincorrect. Do you pick up the glove?", "\n The OpenLook window manager source is available on the MIT contrib tapes\n or from export.lcs.mit.edu .I would suggest building this too, rather than\n using the version from OpenWindows. It is olwm v3.\n\n\t\t\t\tRegards,", "\nI purchased one personal computer and three for business from them. No \nproblems. The only time I called tech support was for a minor question \nabout a video driver and I had no problem getting through.\n\nAll four machines seem to be high quality and well made. A 486dx50 EISA \nmachine has been our network file server running 24 hrs per day since last \nsummer with no problems.\n\nI hope this is helpful.", "Yes, it's possible... in fact, there's some gl widget code in\n/usr/lpp/GL somewhere... (it's named Glib.c; my IBM's down right now\nthough, so I can't find the exact location :)\n\n WARNING: this code feels quite bogus. It does things like calling\nnoport() before winopen(), and then extracting an X window id from it\nanyway. It worked just fine under aix 3.1; I spent last weekend trying\nto port it to 3.2 (gl under 3.2 doesn't seem to like it), and it's\nturning into a Hard Job.\n\n Check out your \"info\" pages; it has some pretty good documentation on\nwhan you can and can't do when mixing gl and X, and how to go about\ndoing so.", "\ndo not pay $40 for floppy drives.. they are about $40 new.\nalso, you do not need documentation for floppies. installation\nfor these things are idiot proof. \njust some advice..\n", "Word 2.0c doesn't show the period-centred character to indicate\nspaces if I use the TTFonts from CorelDraw. Our editors need to\nbe able to see how many spaces are in text but the character \ndisplayed is a large hollow box. They overlap each other and\ncharacters on each side, which is useless.\n\nI believe the character used by W4W is the period-centred (0183).\nThis character shows up with the windows Charmap display as the\nhollow box which tends to confirm this. I have edited the corel\nfont with Fontmonger and changing the font graphics for the 0183\ncharacter makes no difference to the font output in Charmap or W4W.\nAltering the paragraph (0182) or cedilla (0184) does alter their font\ngraphics displayed however!!\n\nIs the W4W character used to indicate spaces the period-centred\ncharacter? Has anyone been able to get this character displayed\nfrom a CorelDraw TTF?\n", "Hi,\n\n\tI've got an older 386/25 motherboard (old as in, uses a 1988\nkeyboard controller, and uses memory interleaving rather than caching).\nIt has developed a problem where trying to copy files from floppy cause\nthe machine to lock up (reset button required), but only when in 386\nenhanced mode. This occurs in Norton Desktop, File Manager, and when\ntrying to install software. Running Win 3.1 in standard mode works fine.\n\n\tHas anyone run into this? Any ideas? Much thanks appreciated.", "---\nHello!\n\nWe want to configure our X11R5 sytem (i486 33Mhz running BSD-like UNIX)\ncomming up with a chooser menu with different machines on it (works) an then\nconnect to them. But the only connection works is localhost!\nAn 'X -indirect ' works very well!\nThe configuration:\n\n\t\t- starting the 'xdm' at boot time with no servers specified\n\t\t in Xservers\n\t\t- starting the X-server at boot time with X -indirect localhost\n\n\t ---> the chooser menu appears with the machines named in\n\t\t Xacces bye\n\t\t\t'*\tCHOOSER ... BROADCAST\t\n\t\t- the number of users on this machines and the load is \n\t\t displayed correct\n\n\t\t- selecting an other machine than my own host the X-server\n\t\t starts and nothing happens, after a time out the CHOOSER menu\n\t\t appears again.\n\nI know the xdm bug in X11R4, but all machines running X11R5\n\nPlease help\n\t\t\tLars\n\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------", "Would anyone out there in DoDland be able to help me out in giving me\na contact to purchase a pair of military air-borne combat boots (9 1/2\nD in size). These boots (so I have read here on rec.moto) are calf\nheight boots that use only velcro for enclosure. I have phoned around\nand nobody seems to carry such an item. I admit I have not gone into\nthe deepest bowels of NYC yet for the search but I have made some\ncalls to several of the bigger army/navy type stores with no luck.\n\nAnyone out there know of a place that does carry such an item as well\nas does mail order? Any help would be appreciated.", "Has anyone done a model of the 52 pin version of the 68hc11? It doesn't\nseem to be too big a job, but if someone else has already done it ...", "\n\n\n\nGood gravy! Decibels are all *ratios.* The question that remains in\nany ratio is the reference unit used. Sometimes, this will be a reference\npower, such as 1 milliwatt (given a certain circuit impedance which\nshould also be included in the fine print or known, like 50 ohms\nin an RF circuit of that impedance), leading to an accepted\nnotation of dBm. Maybe it might be dBV, disregarding the impedance of\nthe circuit and power developed, using 1 volt as reference *amplitude*\n(rather than reference power). Or, it might have an arbitrary or omitted\nreference that is not included in the notation, leading to just plain dB.\nSo. look at it this way--'dB' has an implied reference while notation\nsuch as 'dBm' has an explicit reference.\n\nFor power:\n\n dB = 10*log( P(measured)/P(reference) )\n\nFor amplitude\n\n dB = 20*log( A(measured)/A(reference) )\n\n'B' is for bel, which is a standard term for a log ratio to the base\n10, named after Alexander Graham Bell. A 'deci' Bel is 1/10 of a bel.\nIt has nothing to do with the Bell Telephone company except for\nthe common founder's name. The small 'd'/large 'B' is per SI notation\nconvention. I don't know anyone that's been crucified for messing it up.\n\nCommon references for audio are:\n\n\t0 dBm = 1 milliwatt across 600 ohms\n\t0 dBV = 1 volt\n\n\t0 VU (a zero on the VU meter) = +4 dBm (pro gear line level)\n\t0 VU = -10dBV\t(consumer gear line level)\n\n\nOften times, a power amp VU meter will be aligned using\nthe rated power of the amp as the 0 dB point. It is all\ndone to whatever reference is reasonable for the application\nor moment.\n\nNote that in a circuit with a given (and maybe unknown) linear\nimpedance, if the amplitude goes up so many decibels, the\npower will also increase the same amount. This proof can be done\nwith the above two identities and ohm's law.\n\n-- \n--------------------------------------------------------------------\n Dave Medin\t\t\tPhone:\t(205) 730-3169 (w)\n SSD--Networking\t\t\t\t(205) 837-1174 (h)\n Intergraph Corp.\n M/S GD3004 \t\tInternet: dtmedin@catbyte.b30.ingr.com\n Huntsville, AL 35894\t\tUUCP: ...uunet!ingr!b30!catbyte!dtmedin\n\n ******* Everywhere You Look (at least around my office) *******", "\n: I'm trying out the C++ graphics package InterViews. Besides the man pages\n: on the classes, I haven't got any documentation. Is there anything else\n: around? Furthermore, can anyone send me a (small!) example program\n: which shows how to use these classes together ? I would be very gratefull...", "Could someone explain the difference between Tom Gaskins' two books:\n\n o PEXLIB Programming Manual\n o PHIGS Programming Manual\n\nWhy would I want to buy one book vs the other book? I have an 80386\nrunning SCO UNIX (X11R4) on my desktop, a SUN IV/360 in my lab, and \naccess to a variety of other systems (Alliant FX/2800, Cray Y/MP) on\nthe network. Mostly, we would like to do 3D modeling/visualization\nof rat, rabbit, monkey, and human brain structure.\n\nThanks, AJ\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nAlexander-James Annala\nPrincipal Investigator\nNeuroscience Image Analysis Network\nHEDCO Neuroscience Building, Fifth Floor\nUniversity of Southern California\nUniversity Park\nLos Angeles, CA 90089-2520", "I'm trying to set up a personal studio.\n\nWhat I'm looking for are a cheap sampler(rack or with keyboard)\n\nor a cheap sound card (AudioMedia I or II or something similar).", "The situation: running a Fortran executable that creats an Xterm. An option\nin the menu contained in the Xterm runs a Fortran subroutine that creats\na Tektronics-mode Xterm for displaying some graphics. Typing a while\nthe Tektronics-mode Xterm (future reference to this will be \"Tek-term\") is\nactive makes the Xterm read future keystrokes but does not shift input focus\nto the Xterm (I'm basing that statement on the fact that the border of the \nTek-term stays the highlighted color and that the Tek-term stays on top of\nXterm. If what I'm describing isn't input focus, let me know.) \n\nThe xterm can be brought to the top by clicking the mouse button on it.\n\nSubsequent selections from the Xterm of the menu item that displays graphics \nhighlihts the border and displays the updated graphics, but does not move \nthe Tek-term to the top. If the Tek-term has been iconized to conserve \nscreen space, it stays an icon.\n\n\nThe desired behavior: one of two options - \n\n 1. Whichever of the windows that is active is always on top of the \n inactive one.\n\n 2. Whenever the Tek-term is inactivated, it should revert to a icon\n but when it is activated it should become a window on a higher \n level than the Xterm.\n\nWhat I think I need: a means of specifying that a Xterm or Tek-term will\nbe at the highest level and a way to iconify/expand a Xterm and Tek-term.\nThese commands, would, I'd guess, need to be in the Fortran or in the \ncommand that starts up the Xterm and Tek-term.\n\nOther information: All this is taking place on a VT-1300 (a DEC dumb \nX-windows terminal) connected to a VAX running VMS and Motif.\n\nThanks for your time. If you've got any words of wisdom (other than \n\"give up\" ;-), please send email to ", "For sale in the Baltimore - DC Area\n\nOne Mac 2X 8/80 with Radius 24 Bit Color Dual Page display and adapter\nMicrotek 300Z color scanner\nQMS ColorScript 10 Color Postscript Printer\n2400 Baud Modem\nDyanfile with 360 K and 1.2Meg Floppies\n30 Software packages including Pagemaker, Quark Express, Style, Photoshop, etc\n$7000 OBO\n\nOne Compaq LTE 286 with internal modem and 1.5 Meg ram 20 Hard drive \n$750 OBO\n\nOne Compaq SLT 286 with 5 Meg ram and 40 Meg Hard drive \n$950 OBO\n\nOne Compaq 386N motherboard only Make an offer \nthis has just returned from Compaq Service.\n\nSix Muxes with 9600 Baud modems built in. Make an offer\n\n20 S-100 CPU from a Multi-user TurboDos system Offer", "Hi, there were a couple of articles posted to this group the other\nday with the above subject heading. Unfortunately, they expired \nbefore I could read them. I could really use an xterm-like thing \non my Amiga 4000; could somwone give me any information.\nThanks,\nLarry R. Nittler\n\n", "For Sale:\n\n\t2 Amigas!\n\n\tCommodore Amiga 1000\tBest offer\n\t512k Ram\n\t1 Internal Floppy drive\n\tDetachable Keyboard\n\t2 Button Mouse\n\n\tCommodore Amiga 500\tBest offer\n\t1024k Ram\n\t1 Internal Floppy drive\t\n\t2 Button Mouse\n\n\t1 RGB Monitor\t\tBest offer\n\t1 External Floppy drive\tBest offer", "\nBy initiating a DMA xfer. :)\n\nSeriously, busmastering adapter have their own DMA ability, they don't use\nthe motherboards on-board DMA(which is *MUCH* slower).\n\nISA has no bus arbitration, so if two busmastering cards in 1 ISA system\ntry to do DMA xfers on the same DMA channel the system will lock or \ncrash.(I forget)\n\nTheir are 8 DMA channels in an ISA system. 0-7. 0-3 are 8-bit & 4-7 are\n16-bit.\n\nThe system uses DMA 0, a SoundBlaster uses DMA 1.\n\nI could buy a busmastering XGA-2 video card & a busmastering SCSI HA.\n\nIn order for them to work properly, I would have to find out what DMA\nchannel the XGA-2 card uses and then simply configure the SCSI HA to\nuse a different DMA channel for its DMA xfers.\n\nI don't know if multiple DMA xfers can go on at the same time on ISA.\nI'm not sure if they can on EISA systems either.\n\nI do know that on EISA/MCA systems, you can allow BM cards to use the\nsame DMA channel.", "\n: : bit of it, you could take the tape over to a local ham operator's house\n: : and ask him for his opinion of what you're hearing. Most communities\n: \n: You cannot do that legally. However, you can ask a ham over to listen.\n: If the interference occurs at a specific time each day, then it would\n: be possible to do such scheduling. If nothing else, you could invite\n: the ham over to transmit from your driveway, to see if he interferes.\n: If he does, then you probably need to have your equipment worked on to\n: make it immune to rf interference.\n\nAs a coupld of people have pointed out - this is wrong. It is not illegal\nto record or disclose what you heard on the Ham bands. ", "\n\n\nAlmost all window managers (twm, mwm, olwm and their derivates) support\nescape sequences for it. For your purpose put following into your\n.login (if you're using csh or tcsh), for sh you have to modify it.\n\nif ( \"$term\" == \"xterm\" ) then\n\techo \"^[]2;${LOGNAME}@${HOST}^G^[]1;${HOST}^G\"\nendif\n\nNote, ^[ stands for , in vi you can enter it by pressing\nCtrl-V and the . Same for ^G, it means Ctrl-G. In vi:\npress Ctrl-V and then Ctrl-G.\nThe first sequence puts the string into the title bar the second\nin the icon.\n\nBTW, you can also put the current working directory in the\ntitle bar if you make an alias for cd:\n\nalias cd 'cd \\!* ; echo \"^[]2;${LOGNAME}@${HOST}: ${cwd}^G\"'\n\ngreetings,\nThomas", "\n\n Falcon Microsystems of Landover MD, the sole Apple-authorized\nreseller to the federal government, has similar \"open market\" prices.\nThe upgrade is too new to be on General Services Adminsitration schedule\nyet.\n\t\t\t\t\t\tJoe Gurman", "This is a repost of an earlier. Thanks to several of you for\noffering advise on realistic prices.\n\nMAC SE/ 2.5 megs ram, 20 meg hard disk, 800 K Floppy.\nIn absolutely perfect condition. \n\nIncludes Word 5, pagemaker, quark xpress, quicken and the \nlatest versions of about a dozen other programs.", "\nI have been building X11 with gcc since 2.1 and the only time I had\ntrouble was when the position independant code option broke (so I\ncouldn't use gcc to build Sun shared libraries). The important thing to\ndo is to follow the tips given in the gcc release. Gcc generates code\nthat requires libgcc2 and you should take that into account when\ndeciding which compiler to use for the libraries.\n\n-- \n\nMichael Salmon\n\n#include\t\n#include\t\n#include\t", "\n\n\nIt's actually a bug in the Solaris 2.1 kernel. We could add a workaround to\nxterm. open should never return EINVAL, but it does :-(\n\nI didn't have time to update the R5.SunOS5 patch lately, but non\nof the existing problems seem to warrant a new set of patches.\n\n\nXDM coulda also keep the XDM environment variable. It should have inherited\nit from the environment.\n", "Sorry for the frequency of the posting (I'm in a time crunch).\nI'm selling my toys so I can afford a house :_(\n\n\n-Amiga 4000/040\n -25 MHz 68040 (built in FPU/MMU)\n -18 megs of RAM, 2 megs of video RAM, expandable to 2 gigabytes\n -A2091 SCSI controller\n -Fujitsu 520M 3.5\" SCSI drive, 12ms, 3 years warranty\n -1 year of on-site service remaining\n -$3000 OBO\n\n-Epson ES300C full page 600DPI, 24 bit color scanner w/sware and ADPro loader\n -software (standalone and ADPro loader)\n -docs\n -cable\n -$850\n\n-Supra FAXmodem V.32 bis, 14.4K, latest ROMs\n -$205\n\n-SCSI CD-ROM drive, 400ms, internal\n -$225\n \n-Mitsubishi DiamondScan AUM1371 14\" multisync 15-38 KHz, 30-90Hz\n -analog RGB, TTL, video inputs\n -$275\n\n-All of the above, $3900 OBO ($2000 less than original)\n\n\n-Amiga 2500/040 Toaster system\n -Amiga 2500\n -Zeus 28MHz 68040 (FPU and MMU built in), 1 year warranty\n -16 megs of RAM\n -1 meg of video memory\n -Quantum PRODRIVE 100, 100M SCSI drive\n -2 Personal TBC II, time base correctors (S-video and composite), docs, sware\n -Video Toaster 2.0 with lots of fonts and objects and ToasterVision\n -ToasterVision, AREXX sequencing, Toaster croutons, framestore compress, ...\n -instructional video\n -SCSI CD-ROM drive\n -Sony SLVR5UC SVHS VCR, new, warranty,\n -2 A1080 color RGB/composite/YC monitors\n -Pioneer video disc player, CLD980, RF in/out, composite out\n -rock solid sync generator, multi-format video disc players, CD\n -$6900 OBO\n\nI will parcel this stuff out if necessary (please send offers :_(\n\n\n-Meade 826C 8\" Newtonian reflector telescope\n -8\" aperture, f/6\n -very heavy duty mount\n -clock drive\n -dual axis corrector with joystick and AC or DC drive\n -fiberglassed tube for a bit more strength\n -2 finder scopes\n -1 8X50mm finder scope\n -1 60mm finder scope with diagonal holder and 9mm eyepiece\n -2\" barrel for 2\" eyepieces (includes adapter for 1.25\" eyepieces)\n -1 25mm 1.25\" eyepiece\n -1 9mm or 7mm 1.25\" eyepiece, take your pick, both for $30 more\n -manuals\n -it needs to be collimated, but is otherwise in superb condition\n -$775 (I'd really prefer to sell locally due to its size)\n\n-Maxtor 8760S, 680 meg (formatted), 5.25\" FH, 16ms\n -$625\n -$695 in Sun shoebox\n\n-All software listed below is for the Amiga. Comes with boxes, diskettes,\n manuals and in many cases are unopened, containing registration cards.\n\n-Mean 18 golf\n -$10\n\n-Greg Norman's Shark Attack\n -$10\n\n-Superstar Ice Hockey\n -$10\n\n-Jack Nicklaus\n -$10\n\n-Microbot 3D Design Disk\n -$10\n\n-PGA tour golf\n -$10\n\n-Renegade\n -$10\n\n-Balance of Power\n -$10 \n\n-World Trophy Soccer\n -$10 \n\n-Waterloo\n -$10 \n\n-Omni Play Basketball\n -$10 \n\n-All above software: $65\n\n-Cadence treadmill\n -used for about 1 month\n -manual\n -LCD panel\n -built in computer\n -must sell locally due to size\n -bought for $700\n -asking $190\n\n\nThis A2500 posted for a friend: (please email him at 7MQK@um.cc.umich.edu)\n-Amiga 2500/030, 5 megs RAM, 40M SCSI drive, SCSI controller, A1084 monitor\n -$1200 OBO\n\n Thanks, Ralph\n\n(313) 677-3086, please call after 6:00pm, or send email (best way to reach me)\n\nrps@arbortext.com gilgalad@dip.eecs.umich.edu", "For Sale:\n\n\nTurbo Pascal 5.5 - all original manuals and disks: $30 obo + shipping\n\nBorland Paradox 3.5 with tall boxed manual set & Kallista desktop - all\noriginal disks. $50 obo + shipping\n\nBorland Paradox 4.0 - opened but never used. All manuals & disks.\n$125 obo + shipping\n\nBorland Quattro Pro 4.0 (DOS) all manuals & disks. $40 obo + shipping\n\nE-mail or phone if interested.\n\nJohn Hansen\n(513) 257-6084", "\n\nNASA and related agencies apparently used this same principles to create\nthe loudest reported reproduced sound. They used an \"analog\" electrically\ncontrolled valve to control the flow of air across a horn throat. If I \nremember correctly it was called a \"modulated air blast transducer\". There\nwere reports of the thing being able to produce 106 dB @ 80 Hz @ 10 mile\ndistance, communicate directly with fighter pilots @ 5000 ft, etc.\n\nRegards,\nGordon.\n", "Version 1.0 of NCSA Mosaic for the X Window System, a networked\ninformation systems and World Wide Web browser, is hereby released:\n\nfile://ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu/Mosaic/xmosaic-source/xmosaic-1.0.tar.Z\n .../xmosaic-binaries/xmosaic-sun.Z\n .../xmosaic-binaries/xmosaic-sgi.Z\n .../xmosaic-binaries/xmosaic-ibm.Z\n .../xmosaic-binaries/xmosaic-dec.Z\n .../xmosaic-binaries/xmosaic-alpha.Z\n .../xmosaic-diffs/xmosaic-0.13-1.0-diffs.Z\n\nNCSA Mosaic provides a consistent and easy-to-use hypermedia-based\ninterface into a wide variety of networked information sources,\nincluding Gopher, WAIS, World Wide Web, NNTP/Usenet news, Techinfo,\nFTP, local filesystems, Archie, finger, Hyper-G, HyTelnet, TeXinfo,\ntelnet, tn3270, and more.\n\nThis release of NCSA Mosaic is known to compile on the following\nplatforms:\n\n SGI (IRIX 4.0.2) \n IBM (AIX 3.2)\n Sun 4 (SunOS 4.1.3 with stock X11R4 and Motif 1.1, and GCC).\n DEC Ultrix.\n DEC Alpha AXP (OSF/1).\n\nDocumentation is available online.\n\nChanges since 0.13 include:\n\n o Added new resource, gethostbynameIsEvil, for Sun's that\n coredump when gethostbyname() is called to try to find out what\n their own names are. (Command-line flag is -ghbnie.) \n o Explicitly pop down all dialog boxes when document view\n window is closed, for window managers too dull to do so\n themselves. \n o Better visited anchor color for non-SGI's. \n o Added .hqx and .uu to list of file extensions handled like .tar files. \n o Added 'Clear' button to Open box, to allow more convenient\n cut-n-paste entries of URL's. \n o New resource 'autoPlaceWindows'; if set to False, new document\n view windows will not be automatically positioned by the\n program itself (but it's still up to your window manager just how\n they're placed). \n o Command-line flags -i and -iconic now have desired effect (new\n resource initialWindowIconic can also be used). \n o Gif-reading code is a little more bulletproof. \n o Obscure infinite loop triggered by extra space in IMG tag fixed. \n o Eliminated nonintuitive error message when image can't be read\n (inlined NCSA bitmap is indication enough that something's not\n right for authors, and readers can't do anything about bad images\n in any case). \n o Obscure parsing bug (for constructs like

text
) fixed. \n o Fixed mysterious stupid coredump that only hits Suns. \n o Fixed stupid coredump on URL's like '://cbl.leeds.ac.uk/'. \n o Fixed buglet in handling rlogin URL's. \n o New support for Solaris/SYSVR4 (courtesy\n dana@thumper.bellcore.com). \n o Better support for HP-UX 8.x and 9.x (courtesy\n johns@hpwarf.wal.hp.com). \n o Better support for NeXT (courtesy scott@shrug.dur.ac.uk). \n o Some miscellaneous portability fixes (courtesy\n bingle@cs.purdue.edu). \n o Miscellaneous bug fixes and cleanups. \n\nComments, questions, and bug reports should be sent to\nmosaic-x@ncsa.uiuc.edu. Thanks in advance for any feedback you can\nprovide.\n\nCheers,\nMarc\n\n--", "I'm looking for brief information on new\napplications of electronics (or new electronics in\napplications.) If you know of any interesting new\nstuff, I would be intrested in hearing about it.", "Does anyone know what frequencies the wireless transmitter/receiver\nmicrophone systems that Radio Shack sells operate at? I've tried\neverything short of opening one up (not actually owning one makes\nthis difficult...) and just looking.. Any help would be greatly\nappreciated.. These systems are designed for wireless PA systems, etc..\n \n \n\t\t\t\t\tThanks,", "AllMartin MccormickWhat's Exactly in a Flour\n\nMM>From: martin@datacomm.ucc.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick)\nMM>Organization: Oklahoma State University, Stillwater, OK\nMM>\tWhat sort of lamp is the little glass bulb found inside the \nstarter?\nMM>It sort of reminds me of a NE2 neon lamp. Starters appear open when m\nMM>with an Ohm meter so the little lamp is either a neon or has a capacit\nMM>in series with it.\nMM> \nMM>\tI have seen these things all my life, but never read a really good\nMM>description of what is happening inside that little can.\n\nDo you know what a bi-metallic strip is?\nJust in case: it is two strips of different metals bonded together, which \nwhen heated bend to one side (check out the blinker globe in your \nchristmas tree lights).\n\nSo when you turn on the power, this causes the bulb to work like a neon, \nheating up and shorting out, thus providing a loop to power the heaters in \nthe main tube. When the tube fires, insufficient current runs through the \nstarter to keep the heat up and the bi-metalic strip straightens out \n(O/C).\n\nBTW, I too thought that they were nothing more than a small neon, so one \nday when the neon in my sisters digital (flip the metal squares type) \nclock broke (flimsy leads), I replaced it with one from a starter. Well \npowering up made a bit of a mess of the clock!", "\n: I have normal procomm plus for dos, but I've been considering buying\n: the windows version....it got really great reviews in computer shopper.\n: I have a friend who connects to the mainframe and unix machines here\n: using it, but the screen seems to have a problem keeping up with the\n: modem....he has a 14,400 modem on a 486 50 Mhz machine. I can't\n: see it having trouble keeping up. His pcplus for dos works great,\n\nre: What to do after the high speed modem arrives. Edition 01 Apr 93\n\nThis article applies only to Windows 3.0 and 3.1, and not to NT, OS/2\nor DOS apps not running under Windows.\n\nOne of the unadvertised limitations of most current Windows PCs is that\ntheir RS-232C (serial, COM) performance is seriously deficient. Almost\neveryone who purchases a high-speed modem (V.32bis, V.32, PEP or HST)\ndiscovers the problem the first time they try to download a file or accept\nan incoming FAX (at 9600+) after upgrading the modem. Overrun and retry\nerrors abound, even when the only active application is the datacomm or\nFAX program. If the transfer completes at all, it may take even longer\nthan with the old 2400bps modem.\n\n\nThere are three reasons for the problem:\n\n1. The Universal Asynchronous Receiver/Transmitters (UARTs) used in most\n PCs are primitive Ns8250 devices with single-byte FIFO buffers. If the\n operating system/driver cannot read and flush each character at high\n interrupt rates, the next incoming character overwrites the FIFO and\n the previous one is lost. DOS, being a fairly single-minded\n environment during datacomm, can usually keep up. Windows can't.\n\n2. Windows has more operating system overhead than plain DOS, and\n interrupts often take longer to service. Overruns are much more likely\n than under DOS. As soon as you report to your PC/modem vendor that you\n are losing data, you may be advised that \"you need to upgrade to a\n 16550\". More likely, since there seems to be a conspiracy of ignorance\n about this issue, you'll get no useful advice at all. Most of the\n store-front and mail-order sources I spoke with in attempting to solve\n my own problem had never heard the term \"16550\" and many didn't even\n know what a UART was.\n\n3. Even your PC has Ns16550A UARTs (and PS/2's do), or if you can upgrade\n your mother/COM board or add a new COM board, you may STILL experience\n errors and overruns because the standard MicroSoft Windows COM drivers\n don't take full advantage of the 16550. Windows 3.1 is improved in this\n regard over 3.0, but I still recommend a driver upgrade. Applications\n like ProComm+/Win (which is what I use) cannot get around this problem\n by themselves.\n\nIf you have a modem CARD, you may not have a problem, as the modem part of\nthe card can be designed to be aware of the state of the UART, and avoid\noverrunning it; however, I wouldn't want to bet that the card designers\nwere that clever, and will insist on a 16550 UART if I ever buy a modem\ncard. Some modem cards don't even have conventional UARTs, but if they\nare to work with standard Windows drivers, they need to simulate one.\nUse MSD.EXE (below) to see what the modem card is, or is pretending to be.\n\n\nThe Hardware Situation.\n\nThe UARTs on most PC COM ports are based on National Semiconductor Ns8250\nor Ns16450 chips (or megacells inside VLSI chips where you can't replace\nthem). You can ID the UART type on your system by running the MicroSoft\ndiagnostic program \\WINDOWS\\MSD.EXE. Be sure to run it in DOS *before*\nbringing up Windows. The Windows serial API may prevent MSD from\naccurately identifying a 16550 if you run it from a Windows DOS prompt.\n\nThe Ns16550 UART has separate 16-byte transmit and receive FIFOs with\nconfigurable trigger levels, and can run reliably at clock rates up to\n460,800 bps, although with current modem technology, there's no point in\npushing your luck by going over 115,200 bps. The 16550 has shorted access\ncycle times than the 16450 or 8250. The 16550 also has DMA capability, but\nit is not clear that any PC drivers ever use this. For more technical info,\nsee National Semiconductor Application Note AN-491.\n\nSo, what UART component do you have?\n\nTry to locate the UART on your mother board, multi-function I/O card, COM\nboard or ISA/MCA modem card. If you can't find a socketed component with\nthe numbers \"8250\" or \"16450\", your COM ports are probably buried in VLSI,\nand you won't be able to perform a chip replacement. If you can DISABLE\nyour VLSI COM ports (as I chose to do), you can at least add an aftermarket\nCOM board.\n\nIf you have one or more socketed 8250 or 16450 chips, you can buy plug-in\nNs16550AFN or PC16C550CN (low power CMOS version) ICs from several\nsuppliers typically for $9 to $15 each. The \"N\" chip is the normal 40-pin\ndual-in-line package. Other styles are available, but avoid any Ns16550\nchips without the \"A\" (the 16C550C are presumably all OK).\n\nEarly Ns chips have bugs, although National will reportedly exchange those\nof their own manufacture for free. Clone chips are available from various\nIC makers other than National. The manual for the TurboCom drivers states\nsupport for the following (apparently equivalent) chips:\nNational Semiconductor: 16550A, 16551, 16552\nChips&Technology: 82C607\nTexas Instruments: t16c550a\nSilicon Systems: 73M550\nVLSI 16C550\nTurboCom warns about the pre-\"A\" Ns16550 and Western Digital 16C550,\nsays that problems have been reported with early IBM PS/2 55SX and 70\nsystems (IBM reportedly will upgrade them).\n\nIf you DON'T have socketed 8250/16450 chips, you'll need to buy an after-\nmarket COM or multi-function board. If this is a modem card situation, you\nmay be hosed. To add a new COM or multi-function card, you'll need to\neither disable the COM1/2 port(s) you are replacing, or re-assign them to\nCOM3/4 (although watch out for IRQ conflicts without TurboCom).\n\nAlthough cheaper cards are available, in the interest of getting the\nproblem solved quickly I elected buy the Modular Circuit Technology\nMCT-AIO+ card from:\n\nJDR Microdevices\n2233 Samaritan Drive\nSan Jose CA 95124\n(800) 538-5000 voice US\n(408) 559-1200 voice other\n(800) 538-5005 FAX US\n\nThe MCT-AIO+ (and the \"+\" is important) sells for $89.95. It is an 8-bit\nISA card providing:\n\nPort Type Connector Address and IRQ Comments\nCOM DB9M COM 1,2,3 IRQ 2,3,4,5 Ns16550AFN in socket\nCOM ribbon COM 2,3,4 IRQ 2,3,4,5 Ns16550AFN in socket\nParallel DB25F LPT1,2,3 IRQ 5,7\nGame ribbon\n\nThe kit includes a ribbon cable and DB25F connector for the secondary COM\nport, a ribbon cable/connector for the game port, two bulkhead plates for\nthe ribbon-based connectors and a 9F-to-25F adaptor cable. Each port can\nbe individually disabled, and the COM ports have TX, RX, RTS, CTS, DTR,\nDCD, and DSR jumpers.\n\nJDR also sells a Super-I/O m-f card that also has IDE.\n\nI have heard from several people about less expensive m-f I/O cards\nwith 16550s:\n\nTSD Systems\n(407) 331-9130\n$19.95 for the card, plus $9.95 per 16550.\n\nGreenfield Trading and Distributors\n(518) 271-2473 (voice), (518) 271-7811(FAX).\nTheir card is $33 w/one 16550, $45 w/2, and they sell 16550AFNs for $13.\n\nR&S DATA SYSTEMS, INC.\n820 East Highway 434\nLongwood, FL 32750\nPHONE: (407) 331-1424\nFAX: (407) 331-8606\n2COM/LPT/Game card w/2 16550s for $39\n\nI have no personal experience with any of the firms except JDR.\n\nMeanwhile, back at the MCT card from JDR... I only needed two serial ports,\nand am running out of IRQs on my PC, so I disabled my built-in VLSI-based\n8250 ports. However, with the TurboCom driver (below), I could have set\nthe internals as COM3 and 4, using IRQ sharing.\n\n\nThe Software Situation\n\nSimply upgrading to 16550 UARTs will not completely solve common overrun\nproblems. The standard MS serial drivers don't take full advantage of the\n16550. The Windows 3.0 drivers are even less capable, and the Windows 3.1\ndrivers have the following limitations:\n - They enable only the receive FIFO, and only at rates above 2400 bps.\n - They never enable the transmit FIFO, which results in an interrupt\n rate of 10x during uploads.\n - They set the trigger level at 14 bytes (too high - it's easy for 2\n more bytes to arrive before the driver can read the FIFO).\n - The Ports menu of the Control Panel only allows speeds up to 19200.\n With a V.32bis modem, sparse data and text can easily compress 3:1\n or more, suggesting that a host DTE connect rate of 57,600 bps would\n be effective.\n - The API won't accept rates above \"CBR_128000\".\n - The API won't let DOS programs know there is a 16550 there, and even\n if it did, DOS programs that aren't 16550-aware get little benefit\n from a 16550 port with the standard drivers.\n - They don't allow IRQ sharing for COM3,4.\n - The BIOS doesn't initialize COM3,4 properly in many systems.\n - Windows provides no workaround for apps that don't provide port\n speed options above 19200 bps.\n\nThese problems are reportedly NOT solved in Windows NT or DOS 6.0, and may\nor may not be addressed in any Windows releases after 3.1 (but before 4.0).\nRumors suggest they \"may\" be solved in Windows \"4.0\".\n\nYou can get replacement drivers that solve all of those problems by buying\na copy of \"TurboCom\", current version 1.2, from:\n\nBio-Engineering Research\nPacific CommWare Division\n180 Beacon Hill Lane\nAshland OR 97520-9701\n(503) 482-2744 voice\n(503) 482-2627 FAX\n(503) 482-2633 BBS\nMCImail: 344-5374\nCompuServe: 71521,760\n\nPrice was around $50 as I recall. Bio-Eng is not set up to accept credit\ncards, so I had to send a check. Egghead and 1-800-Software list TurboCom\nbut as far as I know, they don't stock it. Bio is not a software company\nper se. They apparently needed reliable hi-speed serial connections for\nan in-house instrument application, wrote their own driver, discovered a\nmarket for it, revised it to be a general purpose COM driver suite. They\nrecently upgraded it for Windows 3.1. It is run-time licensed.\n\nI now have my host (DTE) connect rate set to 57,600 bps most of my\ndatacomm apps, and I am having ZERO problems with downloads. I routinely\nsee transfer rates that exceed 2,000 bps. I am also using 115,200 bps\nwhen linking an HP95LX to my PC, with lossless bi-directional I/O.\nUploads to various remote systems are another matter, because many hosts\nare still using antique UARTs and drivers.\n\nNote that 19200 is still the highest rate that the Windows 3.1 Port menu\nin Control Panel will allow in configuring a COM port. TurboCom gets\naround this by allowing you to specify, on each port, a factor that will\nset the real UART rate to a multiple of the rate passed through the\nWindows APIs and dialog boxes.\n\nI also have CTS/RTS hardware flow control enabled, and I suggest that you\ndo the same. Even if you only ever transfer 7-bit ASCII data, Xon/XOff is\nnot a sufficiently reliable method of flow control. The informal (DEC)\nstandard for Xon/Xoff hysteresis is that the sender may transmit another\n16 (yes, sixteen) bytes after receipt of the Xoff from the receiving\nsystem or device. The 16 byte FIFO in the 16550 is clearly not big enough\nto let us rely exclusively on Xon/Xoff. A well-respected datacomm\nengineer has informed me that the 16550's can't really do CTS/RTS all\nby itself in the DOS/Windows environment, so using data rates above\n115,200 may still be risky.\n\nEven with hardware flow control, a 16550 with TurboCom can still\nexperience overruns in very busy systems, with lots of apps running and\nserious swapping in progress. If this is your situation, you may need to\nbuy a co-processed COM board, but this will cost you more than a\n16550/TurboCom upgrade. A review of two such boards, and a review of\nTurboCom, can be found in the Feb'93 issue of \"Windows Sources\" magazine.\nI suggest trying a 16550/TurboCom upgrade first, and experiment with\nprocess priorities and time slices if you are a \"power user\" whose\nthrashing system still runs into comm problems.\n\n\nClosing Soapbox Comments\n\nThe state of RS-232C serial datacomm support is an embarrassment across\nthe computer industry. Because it is the oldest standard I/O interface,\nthe job of designing hardware and writing software often seems to be\nassigned to the least senior or lowest ranked engineers at computer\ncompanies. The design of the average serial port is at least ten years\nbehind the state of the art. In my last job, with a major workstation\nvendor, I lobbied for improved serial ports when they were doing the\ninitial designs of a new system. That family of machines was\nsubsequently introduced with 16550 ports. However, this is the\nexception. Few computer companies seem to have any champions for decent\nI/O.\n\nYou may as well learn what you can about serial I/O, because this\nsituation shows no sign of improving soon. When V.FAST arrives, I expect\ncries of outrage from Windows users world-wide whose 8250 PCs \"sort of\"\nwork today with V.32, but will fail miserably with V.FAST. Without a\nhardware-buffered UART (like the 16550) and without software drivers that\nuse that UART to best advantage, a V.FAST modem will be a waste of money.\n\nRegards, 1001-A East Harmony Road\nBob Niland Suite 503\nInternet: rjn@csn.org Fort Collins CO 80525\nCompuServe: 71044,2124 (303) 223-5209\n\n Copyright 1993 Robert J. Niland\n All Rights Reserved\n\n Permission is granted for automatic redistribution of this article, via\n electronic, magnetic and optical media, in an unedited form, through any\n Usenet newsgroup where the article is posted by the author. Permission\n is granted for each CompuServe and Usenet reader subscriber and each\n person who received this article from Compuserve, an ftp site authorized\n by the author or via electronic mail from the author, to retain one\n electronic copy and to make hardcopy reproductions of this edition of\n this article for personal non-commercial use, provided that no material\n changes are made to the article or this copyright statement. All other\n copying, storage, reproduction or redistribution of this article, in\n any form, is prohibited without the express written consent of the\n author, Robert J. Niland.", "I want to be able to send a Pixmap from one client to the next.\nAlong with this I want to send the Colormap and foreground and\nbackground pixel values. So far not a problem, I can do\nthis with no problem.\n\n However, once I have the Pixmap id and the Colormap id, how\ndo I go about telling the server that the second (receiving)\nclient now wants to have associations with the two id's?\n\n\tTIA,\n\n\tJohn", "or\nthere\n\n\nOkay, I guess its time for a quick explanation of Mac sound.\n\nThe original documentation for the sound hardware (IM-3) documents how to\nmake sound by directly accessing hardware. Basically, you jam values\ninto all the even bytes from SoundBase to SoundBase+0x170. This was\nbecause\nof how the Mac 128 (and some later machines) generated sound was by\nscanning\nthis block and D/Aing every even byte (the odd bytes went to the floppy on\nsome machines).\n\nWhen the Mac II (and Apple Sound Chip) was invented, it was designed to\ngenerate stereo sound. It was also designed to be compatible with we had\nonce\ndocumented. So storing bytes at the even values at SoundBase meant \"I\nwant to\nplay a mono sound\" and so it was emulated. But Apple had since retracted\nthe\ndocumentation on SoundBase and decided not to document the lowest layers\nof\nsound generation. So apple never explained where to stuff bytes if you\nwant\nto make stereo sound.\n\nEnter game developers. The sound driver and current sound manager are\ninconveniently lame for making games. Furthermore, people who port from\nthe\nIBM don't want to learn more APIs. So, it has become popular for game\nwriters to write to SoundBase to make sound, since it is very easy.\n\nSince the Mac II, Apple has had many different kind of sound output\nhardware,\nand the only things they have in common are that writing to SoundBase\nworks.\nOn some hardware, (Mac II, IIx, IIcx, IIci at least), writing to SoundBase\ngets you mono sound through both speakers. On some Macs (Quadra\n700/900/950\nat least) writing to SoundBase gets you mono sound on the left channel\nonly.\nBoth are technically correct interpretations of the original\nspecification,\nbut one is obviously preferable for asthetic reasons.\n\nIf developers use the Sound Manager (and I think the sound driver), mono\nsounds will (typically) come out through both channels regardless of the\nunderlying hardware. It is possible to specify you want to generate left\nchannel only, but no one does. If developers write to sound base, their\ngames will only come out the left on some games.\n\nThe other problem, the original Mac II only producing left channel sound\non the internal speaker, while the SE/30 mixes both, isn't really related.\nIt is due to the post generation amplification used on the motherboards of\nthe different machines. It only affects true stereo sounds. Sounds which\nare actually mono, will play on the internal speaker, no matter what\nmachine\nyou have.\n\nNow, to more directly address the question, the games you list:\nand also\nHellcats,\nSuper Tetris\nOxyd\n(and many more, these are just what I've tested)\n\nCheat and write to SoundBase and so are only left channel on Quadras.\n\n\nOther games you list:\nand also\nPGA Tour Golf\nCivilization\n(and more, these are again only from personal experience)\n\nUse the sound manager and work fine on all machines.\n\nThe more of the story is to developers: DON'T CHEAT!\nReally, I am absolutely, positively not allowed to do what I am about to\ndo,\nbut I'm going say it anyway.\nStop cheating on sound!\nReally soon, you will be sorry, as even those without external speakers\nwill be disappointed with your sound on future hardware. The grace period\nis about to end.\nThe Sound Manager is understandable now, and works pretty well and will\nwork\neven better soon, so use it.\n\nIn conclusion:\nTo Doug, it isn't a hardware problem, at least, not a bug.\nTo Jon, it isn't a choice to developers as to whether they want to send\nsound\nto both channels. If they do it the right way, it is taken care of\nautomatically. If you cheat, there is not way to make it work on all\nhardware.\n\n\nHave fun.\n\nDisclaimer number 1:\nI don't work on sound here at Apple, I'm just pretty well informed.\nSo don't write me with sound questions.\n\nDisclaimer number 2:\nIf it says up above that I wrote anything like \"the grace period is about\nto end\" then it is a bug in your news feed, since I am catagorically not\nallowed to say anything like that. You know what I mean.\n\nDisclaimer number 3:\nI don't speak for Apple, just me.", "I have placed a new release of my aXe editor in aXe-5.0.tar.Z on\nexport.lcs.mit.edu (18.24.0.12) and arjuna.ncl.ac.uk (128.240.150.1).\n\nThe significant change this time, and the justification for the hike\nin the major version number, is:\n\n o undo has been implemented.\n\n By default only the last change can be undone, but a resource is\n provided to allow the user to specify how many, including unlimited,\n levels of undo information should be kept. Also, undo of undo is\n supported.\n\nThere is no truth in the rumour that the next version will be EmaXe 19 :-)\n\n -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-\n\nFor those who have not encountered aXe before here is a summary of\nwhat it is all about:\n\naXe is a simple to use text editor for X that represents a significant\nimprovement over xedit. Also built around the Athena Text Widget it\nfeatures, amongst other things,\n\n o multiple windows\n o multiple buffers\n o default menu interface\n o optional button interface, with choice and layout of buttons \n under user control\n o minibuffer for expert use and access to external filters\n o provision for defining a keyboard macro\n o geometry specification and resizing in terms of characters\n o file selection via a browser\n o knowledge of line numbers\n o parenthesis matching\n o regular expression searching\n o restricted or unlimited undo\n o ability to change font\n o easy entry of control codes\n o xterm-like keymap feature\n o easy runtime setting of selected preferences (resources)\n o both brief and comprehensive on-line help\n o server mode with cooperating client programs\n o optional extension language using Tcl\n o optional Xaw3d widget set compatability\n o collection of reusable widgets that embody the functionality of aXe\n\nI have personally built and run core aXe, i.e. without the Tcl and\nXaw3d options, on the following systems:\n\n Sun SPARC SunOS 4.1.x MIT X11R5\n Sun SPARC SunOS 5.1 MIT X11R5\n Encore Multimax UMAX 4.3 MIT X11R5\n DEC 5000/120 ULTRIX 4.2 MIT X11R5\n HP 9000/710 HP-UX 8.07 MIT X11R5\n MAC IIci AU/X 3.0 MIT X11R5\n \nbut not all have been subject to the same level of testing. I have\nonly tested the Tcl and Xaw3d options on the first.\n\nA number of '#ifdef SYSV'-isms that have been fed back to me have been\nincorporated into the code and a possible scandir replacement is\nprovided for those systems that do not have one.\n\nAlthough aXe will probably build under R4 run-time problems have been\nencountered in the past. I have not bothered to try this version under\nR4, and have not put any effort into solving previously known\nproblems. Therefore, if you are at R4 you very much take pot luck. If\nit doesn't work the only alternative is to try the last release,\n2.1.1, of version 2 which should still be around. It doesn't have as\nmany features and uses the Widget Creation Library (Wcl). Not only\nthat, it requires an old version of Wcl, 1.06 or 1.05. Version 3 of\naXe was nearing completion when version 2 of Wcl came out so aXe 2\nnever got converted to make use of it.\n\naXe is available by anonymous ftp from export.lcs.mit.edu (18.24.0.12)\nand arjuna.ncl.ac.uk (128.240.150.1) initially, and probably in due\ncourse from several other ftp sites. Check your nearest using\nxarchie.\n\nIf you can't ftp, try sending email to ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com with the\nword \"help\" alone in your message body. You will receive instructions\non how to ftp via email.\n\nJim", "\nThe 68070 is made by someone other than Motorola (Signetics perhaps),\nand was (if memory serves me correctly) a 68000 compatible single chip\nmicro type chip. IE built in extra toys like serial ports, ram\ninterfaces etc. So, laugh all you want, but there is such a critter!", "We are trying to install a donated hard disk (Miniscribe\nvintage 1988) on a supercheap ancient Compaq XT for\nuse in education. The only problem is that the\nsupercheap Compaq didn't come with the manual and I\nhaven't been able to figure out how to start the SETUP\nprogram.\n\nI began using PCs after 286s were invented, so I have\na couple of basic questions:\n\n1. Did XT-class computers even *have* SETUP programs?\n\n2. If they did (or, do), how do I access it?\n\nIf anybody has any good advice on how to proceed or\nwhat to do next or what to look out for, please let me\nknow. E-mail is best, but I'll also be watching the\nnewsgroup postings.\n\nThanks in advance,\n-Robert\n\n-- ", "Hi there,\n\nI'm looking for tools that can make X programming easy.\nI would like to have a tool that will enable to create X motif\nGUI Interactivly. Currently I'm Working on a SGI with forms.\nA package that enables to create GUI with no coding at all\n(but the callbacks).\nAny help will be appreciated.", "We are looking for GL source code, which was developed by Silicon Graphics (SGI).\nWe would like to compile it on Sun and HP 9000/700s. If there is anyone already\nsupporting GL on HP and Sun, please respond.\nAlso please respond if anyone knows where the source code is available.\n\n\nThank you", "Hello,\n\nI am looking for a PC card with the following features:\n\n - Controller for IDE(AT-Bus)-HardDiskDrive\n - Controller for 2 FloppyDiskDrives\n - Standard(256KB) VGA Graphics INCLUDING FEATURE CONNECTOR (important!)\n ===========================\n\nThere *are* some manufacturors/distributors of this kind of card, but I have\nnot found them yet.\n\nIf you can help me, please mail to: ICH344@DJUKFA11\n ICH344@zam001.zam.kfa-juelich.de\n", "Extract from the color README file for Anthony's Icon Library.\nFor Network discussion...\n\nColor Coordination...\n\n I tried to start a discussion in `comp.windows.x' at the start of the\n year about some sort of `standard color table' that icons should follow\n (say 16 to 32 colors including 5 colors for a small grey scale). but no\n one responded at all.\n\n The problem is that if the colors for icons are just used willy-nilly\n you will soon find that the workstations color table, devotes itself\n solely the window manager, icons and other `adminstrative tasks' instead\n of applications that actually require the colors for proper working.\n ``Color needful applications'' such as : Picture and graphic displayers,\n Animation, Real Time video, Raytracers, etc... .\n\n The following is a suggested color table for icons, and general use.\n Icons, Window Managers, and general applications, should follow this\n table or something like it, UNLESS the application is ``color needful''.\n\n * for each primary color (red,green,blue) three colors\n EG: values 0, 128 and 255.\n This results in 3 ^ 3 colors (27) representing most of the\n standard colors for use in icons.\n\n * two extra shades of grey\n EG: vales (black) 0, 64, 128, 196 and 255 (white,red,...)\n\n * 3 other colors -- probably of some primary color to provide shading\n a and 3-D look to buttons and titlebars in the window manager.\n\n This table represents 32 colors and represents a large range of\n posibilities for the above ``administrative services'' of the\n workstation.\n\n\n Anthony Thyssen - (SysProg @ Griffith University) anthony@cit.gu.edu.au\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n A Gods idea of amusement is a Snakes & Ladders game, with greased rungs.\n - Terry Pratchett \"Wyrd Sisters\"", "Hello !\n\nCould anybody be so kind and tell me the date and possible ftp-location of\nthe most recent Win 3.1 printer drivers for:\n\n\t- Canon BJ-10e\n\t\tand\n\t- Canon LBP-4\n\nI would really appreciate if you could help me with this.\nThanks in advance!\n\n--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n \tkjell@hut.fi \tkjell@niksula.hut.fi\tkjell@vipunen.hut.fi", "\nGenerally, the second or third major release usually takes care of it.\nMy advice, based on plenty of personal experience, is to never buy the\nfirst version of anything from Microsoft. This includes major version\nnumber upgrades from previous releases, such as Microsoft C 6.00.\nAlways wait at least for the \"a\" upgrade or slipstream upgrade if\nyou're going to buy it.", "We here at Utah State University Cooperative Extension have been using\nW4Wg for a while now. We wanted to talk to the internet with the mail\npackage so we got the smtp gateway. You also need a tcp/ip transport\npackage on top of that which is utterly stupid but that's what they\nrequire to get the smtp gateway to work. You need a dedicated pc\nfor the gateway and if you are looking at remote access you need another\ndedicated pc for the remote mail stuff. We do not have the remote mail\ngoing but you indicate that that is what you want to do. \n\nThere is a glitch somewhere in the system though. I don't know if it\nis MS mail, the gateway or the VAX here on campus that is choking in the\nmail that is sent. The scenario is this. The outgoing mail goes to a\nUnix system which then routes the mail where it needs to go. If that mail\nis routed to the VAX, the VAX has problems some times receiving the mail.\nMost messages do get through this way except if someone has there mail\non the VAX forwarded to some other location. That is the main gotcha.\nWhere ever the mail is forwarded to that person gets a message header\nthen a message saying \"Boudary:= (error garbage code stuff)\". If you\ncan stay away from sending to a VAX you are ok. The system people\nof course say that the VAX is not the problem, the gateway is probably\nthe problem. If anyone wants to get help it is only $175.00 for one\nsupport call. (until problem is worked out) Phooey to that I say. I\nam looking vigorously for a better Idea. \n\nIf you go forward on any of this and find out anything knew, please\ndrop me a note - anyone. The next itteration is supposed to have tcp/ip\nbuilt in THEY say........ The netxt itteration of w4wg\n\nGood Luck!!!!!", "Hey, does anybody know anything about Leading Technology Computers??\n\nI have a Leading Technology 6000SX and need a new mother board for it.\n\nDoes anybody know where I can get one. ", "I have a Paradise SVGA with 1Mb, the 90c030 chip (1D). The docs say that\nI can display the following modes : 640x480x32k colours and 800x600x32k cols\nif I have the RAMDAC HiColor Chip. I have checked the board and I do have\nsuch a chip. Now, the problem is that I can't get this mode to work !\nGraphics Workshop 6.1 claims that it can display 24 bit images dithered\ndown to 15 bit colour with my board, but it doesn't work. I have tried\nwriting some assembler code to get the modes working and I have found out\nthat each pixel is addressed by a word ( 16 bit ), but only the lower 8 bits\nare considered ( this happens in 800x600 mode, the 640x480 mode refuses to\nwork i.e. remains in text mode ).\nCould someone please help me.", "\n\tWhy don't you consider PHIGS in X or PEX lib?", "Here's a question for all you electrical engineers out there:\n\n I bought an 'Infrared detector module' at Radio Shack for $3.95 - it is a \nlittle gizmo that senses infrared remotes and produces an output signal. Then\nI hooked the output through a transistor to an infrared LED. The circuit works\nlike a minature remote control extender in my car - All remote commands are\nrelayed to the CD player hidden in the glove compartment. It works fine with\nmy Denon CD player, but when I tried to build the same circuit for a friend's\nVCR, it didn't work.\n The circuit appears to work for other remotes (you can see infrared with a\nSony CCD camcorder) but coincidentally it only seems to work for my CD\nplayer...\n\n\tAny advice would be appreciated....\n Brian\n", "When I changed from SVR4 to SVR4.2 on my Intel box I discovered that\nsome of my SVR4 xclients such as xload, etc would no longer work.\n\n\nThey bomb out with the message:\n\nerror: can't open display unix:0.0\n\nIs this because they can't find the correct shared libraries, they need\nto be recompiled, or have I not used the correct options?\n\nBoth systems use X11R5.\n\nThanks.", "Well, after massaging the Dec.cf, osf.def, (can't remember the exact names)\nfrom OSF into my normal X11R5 distribution, everything compiles and links\nfine, but xterm doesn't run.\n\n\nWarning: Representation size 8 must match superclass's to override background\nWarning: translation table syntax error: Modifier or '<' expected\nWarning: ... found while parsing 'p^#j?;'P)=#'\nX Error of failed request: BadColor (invalid Colormap parameter)\n Major opcode of failed request: 85 (X_AllocNamedColor)\n Resource id in failed request: 0x0\n Serial number of failed request: 18\n Current serial number in output stream: 18\n\nOther than this, all the other core X stuff seems to be working OK. Any\nhints/tips appreciated, patches would be primo.\n\nThanks.", "\n\nMaxim makes a chip that does exactly what you want. The MAX7219 drives 8\n7 segment LED displays with full decode or drives 64 discrete LED's with\na 3 wire serial interface. The chips can also be cascaded to allow very\nlarge arrays. I am working on a sign display using this part.\n\nI'll have to post the contact info for Maxim later, it's at home. There was\na series of articles on this chip in the last couple of Circuit Cellar Ink's.\n\nMike Harpe", "I'm planning to buy a computer and I like TC's ads. Can you tell anything\nabout the company and their computers? Also, if anyone has a company they \nwould prefer, please let me know.\n\nThanks.", "In Article <1993Apr16.075822.22121@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>,\n\n60ns 72 pin simms.\n\n2 configs: 4mb & 8mb. In each case the memory is soldered on the board\nleaving the 4 simm sockets open. 132mb is the total addressable memory for a\n650.\n\n", "\n{> \n{> SCSI-1 {SCSI-2 controller chip; also called SCSI-2 (8-bit)}: 4-6MB/s with \n{> 10MB/s burst. This is advertised as SCSI-2 in BYTE 4/93:159 FOR the\n{> PC and AT THESE SPEEDS.{NOT the Mac, the PC.}\n{> \n\nI have been following this mess for a while. excuse my need for\nclarification. Iam thinking seriously IDE vs. SCSI and this thread\ncould not have come at a better time.\n\nthe above quote SCSI-1 {SCSI-2 controller chip}\n\nare we talking about a SCSI-1 device (e.g. HD) on a SCSI-2 Controller\nor \nare we talking about a SCSI-1 Controller that had a chip upgrade\nusing the same chip that is on a SCSI-2 controller board.\n\nthanks \n\n -David\n\n=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=", "I nead a utility for updating (deleting, adding, changing) *.ini files for Windows. \n\nDo I find it on any FTP host?", "I have a problem when I'm using PostScript. When I am working local\non a SUN SPARCstaton IPC the PostScript works good, but when I connect\nto the SUN from a X-terminal I just get error messages that the\nPostScript cannot connect to the news-display.\n\n Why doesn't PostScript work on an X-terminal?\n\n Is there any way to make it work?\n", "Yes, I know it sounds crazy. Call it an urge. Call it what you want.\nJust don't ask why :-)\n\nAnyway, I'd like to build a UV flashlight, cheaply. \"flashlight\" means\nit should be reasonably portable, but could have a power pack if\nnecessary.\n\nMy main question is the bulb: where can I get UV bulbs? Do they\nneed a lot of power? etc., etc.\n\nI'm not too concerned with whether it's long-wave or short-wave\n(but hey, if anyone has a cheap source of bulbs, I'll take both).\n\nOne other thing: a friend of mine mentioned something about near-UV\nlight being cheaper to get at than actual UV light. Does anyone\nknow what he was referring to?\n\nThanks much.\n\n", "I have an HP 1815 TDR plug-in for an HP180 series scope or mainframe\nthat I'm never going to use (no scope any more). If you're interested\nin it, please let me know. Price? Probably real cheap.\n\nThis notice may have appeared once before. I posted, and it never showed\nup on our local server...\n\n-- \n--------------------------------------------------------------------\n Dave Medin\t\t\tPhone:\t(205) 730-3169 (w)\n SSD--Networking\t\t\t\t(205) 837-1174 (h)\n Intergraph Corp.\n M/S GD3004 \t\tInternet: dtmedin@catbyte.b30.ingr.com\n Huntsville, AL 35894\t\tUUCP: ...uunet!ingr!b30!catbyte!dtmedin\n\n ******* Everywhere You Look (at least around my office) *******", "Here are some cool 3-D background patterns I made.\n\nEdit your CONTROL.INI and add the following lines to your [Patterns] section.\n\nBricks=148 43 86 172 89 182 99 201\nTile=1 43 85 43 85 43 85 255\nTile (diagonal)=148 107 54 156 73 182 99 201\nSlats=0 170 85 170 85 170 85 255\n\nMake sure your desktop color is one of the standard 16 colors or the\npatterns might not work. I like dark grey the best with these.", "\nI just talked to a rep for my AT&T mastercard regarding this: There is no\nmaximum claim, and you only have to notify them of the warranty when the \nitem needs repair. If it can't be repaired, you get the amount you paid\nfor it.\nCuriously though, the AT&T Gold mastercard has a limit of $1000 on claims.\nDefinitely not upgrading to that card...:)\n\n-Bryan\n", "My company has developed an application for the Mac that emulates a chart\nrecorder - virtual pen traces scroll smoothly across the screen. As we\ntested the application on a number of computers we discovered some\nsurprising performance differences across products. The scroll performance\nof the IIsi and LCII was better than the IIfx. This led us to investigate\nColor Quickdraw performance across the Apple line.\n\nThe results:\n\nThe fastest QuickDraw color performing computer Apple makes is the\n(drumroll please) LCIII. And the Color Classic ranks right up there with\nthe Quadra line. The Centris line pales in comparison.\n\nDoes anybody know the differences in these computers that explains the\ndisparity in graphics/processor performance?\n", "Does anyone know what processor the Atari 2600 used? What I'm looking for is th\ne pin-outs for the Atari 2600.... the schematics for it it... does anyone have\nany idea where I could find this or any related information? This is very impor\ntant. Also, are the ROM chips that were used fo rthe 2600 games still available\n, or were they propreitary? Please email me with any responces, as this is very\n important.. Thanks a million...\n\nBTW- Anyone who works/has worked for Atari, I could really use your help with i\nnfo on the old 2600, please email me if you are willing to help me.... thatnks\nalot!!", "The subject line says it all really, I'm looking for a PD application\nwhich will just handle the displaying of 3D data sets (images) in\ncross section, or any pointers to code which will aid in the development\nof such a system.\n\n Thanks in advance\n\n\tKeith Marlow\n\n", "*****REVISED LIST**********\n\n\tI have the following Turbo Graphx 16 games for sale. All have the cases and instructions. I'm asking $10 a piece for the games and $3 for S&H (You pay the $3 for the first game only). Please email replies to jth@bach.udel.edu\n\nAlien Crush\nWorld Class Baseball\nTakin' It To The Hoop\nPsychosis\nSidearms\nKeith Courage\nLegendary Axe\nLegendary Axe II\nSplatterHouse\nNinja Spirit\nTiger Road\nPower Golf\nWorld Sports Competition\nSpace Harrier\nSilent Debugers\nCyber-Core\nFinal lap Twin\nDevil's Crush\nKeith Courage\nGalaga 90' \nAline Crush\nVictory Run\nBlazing Lazers\n\n\n\tI have the following TG-16 CD-ROM Games forsale. I'm asking $20 each and $3 S&H for the first game.", "Here's the situation:\n\nAt home, I have MS Word for windows but no printer. At work, I\nhave windows + a postscript printer, but not MS Word. So, I\nconfigure my machine at home to use a postscript printer, and use\nthe print to file option, which produces a nice postscript file,\nwhich I then bring to work.\n\nMy question: how do I print this postscript file through the print\nmanager at work? If, for example, I select print from the file\nmanager, it treats the postscript as a text file, and gives me\nseveral pages of postscript gibberish.\n\nI know that I can open a DOS window and do:\n\n\t copy file.ps com1:\n\nwhich does work, but seems not to multitask very well -- other applications\nrun rather slowly and often pause for 10's of seconds.\n\nThere ought to be a way of passing the postscript file to the Print\nManager, but if there is, I can't find any mention of it in the\ndocumentation.\n\nAnyone know how to do this?\n", "hi all,\n\nIN SHORT: looking for very fast assembly code for line/circle drawing\n\t on SVGA graphics.\n\nCOMPLETE:\n\tI am thinking of a simple but fast molecular\ngraphics program to write on PC or clones. (ball-and-stick type)\n\nReasons: programs that I've seen are far too slow for this purpose.\n\nPlatform: 386/486 class machine.\n\t 800x600-16 or 1024x728-16 VGA graphics\n\t\t(speed is important, 16-color for non-rendering\n\t\t purpose is enough; may stay at 800x600 for\n\t\t speed reason.)\n (hope the code would be generic enough for different SVGA\n cards. My own card is based on Trident 8900c, not VESA?)\n\nWhat I'm looking for?\n1) fast, very fast routines to draw lines/circles/simple-shapes\n on above-mentioned SVGA resolutions.\n Presumably in assembly languagine.\n\tYes, VERY FAST please.\n2) related codes to help rotating/zooming/animating the drawings on screen.\n Drawings for beginning, would be lines, circles mainly, think of\n text, else later.\n (you know, the way molecular graphics rotates, zooms a molecule)\n2) and any other codes (preferentially in C) that can help the \n project.\n\nFinal remarks;-\nnon-profit. expected to become share-, free-ware.\n\n\tAny help is appreciated.\n\tthanks\n\n-Frankie\nlau@tammy.harvard.edu", "\tAnother way would be to use GetGeometry to find out where\nyou are relative to the frame, and TranslateCoordinates to find\nout where your window's upperleft corner really is.\n\t-- Ethan\n\n\n", "Hi, everyone,\n\n\tHere are some books for sale, all prices are negotiable!!\n\t(****Shipping fee is not included!!)\n\n\t1. Signals and Systems, Alexander P. Poularik and Samuel Seely\n\t PWS-KENT Publisher,\tOld price: $10\n\t\t\t\tNew Price: $8.50!!!!\n\n\t2. Probability: an introduction, Samuel Goldberg\n\t Dover Publisher, \tOld price: $4\n\t\t\t\tNew Price: $2!!!!!!!\n\n\t3. Digital Image Processing and Computer Vision, R. Schalkoff\n\t Wiley Publisher, \tOld price: $30 \n\t\t\t\tNew Price: $26!!!!!!\n\n\t4. Digital Image Processing, R. Gonzalz and P. Wintz,\n\t Addison Wesley Publisher, Old price: $25\n\t\t\t\tNew Price: $22.50!!!\n\nSOLD!!..5. X Window System User Guide (for X11R4), O'Reilly Associate\n\t \n\t6. The Best Book of MS-DOS 5, Alan Simpson\n\t SAMS, \t\tOld price: $12\n\t\t\t\tNew price: $8.50!!!!\n\n\t7. Elements of Modern Algebra, Hu\n\t Holden Day Publisher, Old price: $8\n\t\t\t\tNew price: $3.00!!!!\n\n\t8. Symmetries, Asymmetries and the World of Particles, T.D. Lee\n\t Washington Publisher, Old price: $12\n\t\t\t\tNew price: $9.50!!!!\n\n\t9. Elementary Particles and the Laws of Physics - the 1986 Dirac\t\t Memorial Lectures, Cambridge Publisher, Old price: $8\n\t\t\t\tNew price: $6.00!!!!\n\n\t10. A Brief History of Time, Stephen W. Hawking\n\t Bantam books (Paperback), Old price: $8 \n\t\t\t\tNew price: $4.00!!!!\n\n\n\t\n", "Keywords: Polk Sansui Akai Stereo\n\nFOR SALE: \n\nPolk RTA 12 speakers\nSansui 4900Z - 60 watt Rx\nAkai CSM 40 RM\n\n$500 or best offer.\n\nA friend asked me to post this for him. If you are interested \nor want more information, call him; do not reply to me. Thanks.\n\nCall Carl\n609 466-9490", "I have an eprom blower made by Logical Devices and the\n model name is Prompro-8, but I have lost the manual. Does anyone\n have a spare manual that they would like to sell ?", "I have a Sega Genesis (barely used) that IUd like to sell with the following games:\n\nSonic the Hedgehog (I)\nRevenge of Shinobi\nThunderforce III\n\nI'm asking $160 OBO. I can best be reached via email, or alternatively, \nby phone at: (415) 497-3719.", "I am looking for GUI Builders/UIMS's which run in a VMS/OpenVMS\nenvironment. I am interested in both Motif tools and GUI-independent\ntools such as XVT. My client also requires that the tool has been\nin production for at least 6 months in the VMS environment. Note\nthat I have the list of tools from the FAQ, but not the info on\nVMS availability.\n\nThanks", "In Windows I created a permanent Swap-file of 7771Kb as win3.1\nrecommended me to do that (32bit access).\nIf I use EMM386.EXE, after win3.1 startup I have 6689K of memory\nfree, if I leave EMM386.EXE out of my config.sys I have 9935K\nof memory free, and windows recommends me a swap file of 11769K.\n\nI use DOS6, with memmaker, have 4MB of internal Memory and a 486DX,\n\nDoes anybody knows why this is happening (possibly win needs\nsome UMB's to manage virtual memory?, If true, which UMB's, those\nthat EMM386 can find without including suspicious parts?)\n\nI need an optimized DOS-environment, because i develop applications for\nDOS using a windows programming environment.\n", "\nBad system disk. (possibly too new a version for your historical\ncuriosity^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HFat Mac)\n", "BOY OH BOY, HAVE I GOT A DEAL FOR YOU !!!!!!!!!\n\nHow does this sound.......\n\n\tI have decided to sell all of this as a package deal,\n(unless someone really wants something seperate, then I'm open\nto that as well).....\n\n\tKramer Striker 100st electric guitar\n\t\tDark metallic blue...\n\t\tFloyd Rose Tremlo...\n\t\tTuning lockers at the nut...\n\t\tGreat action, all-around great guitar!!\n\n\t\t\t-plus-\n\n\tKorg pme40x professional modular effects pedal board\n\t\tHas flanger, chorus, and graphic equilizer...\n\t\tHas a unique bonus...you can buy seperate pedal \"boxes\"\n\t\t\tthat sort of slide into any of the 4 existing slots..\n\t\tMono input, STEREO output...\n\t\tPerfect for the electric or acoustic guitars!!!\n\n\t\t\t-plus-\n\t\n\tDOD American Metal distortion pedal\n\t\tDurable, great sounding pedal...\n\t\tGoes great with the Korg pedal board!!\n\nThere you have it! Everything you need for a great sound!!!\nYours as a package deal for only........$300 o.b.o.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!\n\nRespond by email to dietrijj@mentor.cc.purdue.edu or by phone at\n(317) 495-4426 and ask for Jason. Thanks in advance!!!", "Excuse me if this is a frequent question, I checked in\nseveral FAQs but couldn't really find anything.\n\nI have a IIsi with the standard 5 meg memory and I want\n(need) to add additional memory. But I'm on a budget.\nI really don't need more than 10 meg max, so what is\nthe best (performance wise) and most economical way\nto do this? Someone told me that I should only use\nSIMMs of the same amount of memory, that is 4 1 meg,\n4 2 meg, etc. What if I just wanted to buy just 1 4 meg\nand use the rest of what I already have? The manual\nhasn't been very helpful with this.\n\nThanks.", "\n\n LBL now offers ethernet support also, although presently it is limited\nto NE1000/NE2000 style boards. LBL owners can get an update for $8.50.", "Hi\n\nDoes anyone know of a direct way to print an image of an .xbm file.\n\nPlease reply directly and I'll post a summary.\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\nAny opinion presented here is my own, and does not reflect the policy\nof my employer, NASA, or the Ames Research Center.\n\nRoger Smith\nSterling Software at\nNASA-Ames Research Center\nrsmith@proteus.arc.nasa.gov", "Hi,\n\tI need xrn and xarchie for the HP's (9000/730, version 8 OS), either in\nthe source form or, (preferably) in executable form. Please suggest\nwhere I can find this, \n\tSend e-mail to: rao@cse.uta.edu\nThanks in advance,\nRao.", ": \n: Oh yeah, I just read in another newsgroup that the T560i uses a\n: high quality Trinitron tube than is in most monitors.(the Sony\n: 1604S for example) and this is where the extra cost comes from. It\n: is also where the high bandwidth comes from, and the fantastic\n: image, and the large image size, etc, etc...\n: \n: It's also where the two annoying lines across the screen (one a third\n: down, the other two thirds down) come from.\n: \n\nThe 2 lines are not a result of the high end trinitron tube, these\n2 wires will be found on all 17\" trinitron tubes (e.g., Mitsubishi 17\",\nSony 1604, etc). On 14\" Sony tubes, you'll find one wire.\n\nTheir level of annoyance is purely subjective. I'm so happy with the\nsharpness of the T560i that I don't even notice the lines.\n\nThe T560i uses a Trinitron SA tube which, when viewed as a complete tube,\nhas a larger diameter than the standard Trinitron tube. This results in \na flatter screen than other 17\" monitors using the standard trinitron \n(which has a vertically flat but not horizontally flat surface), and \napparently the ability to provide a tighter beam focus. \n", "I need definitions of the SPEC and Dhrystone benchmarks. Any background\nmaterial would also be welcome.\n\nIf anyoneand email something to me or point me to an anonymous FTP server \nI'd appreciate it. \n\nThanks.\n\nAl Dykes", "Could some one please send me (or tell me where to ftp from) the patches required\n for xrolo so that I can compile-in the SPARCStation phone-dialing feature?\n\nI am using SunOS 4.1.1, and therefore don't have \"multimedia/libaudio.h\" or \n\"multimedia/audio_device.h\" and associated functions.\n\nJust in case, our mail gateway only accepts msgs < 45Kb.\n\nThanks in advance,\nShash.\n", "I'm getting ready to buy a multimedia workstation and would like a little\nadvice. I need a graphics card that will do video in and out under windows.\nI was originally thinking of a Targa+ but that doesn't work under Windows.\nWhat cards should I be looking into?\n\nThanks,\nCraig\n", "I am happy to announce the first public release of the bit program,\n an INTERACTIVE, FULL COLOR image viewer and editor based on SGI GL.\n Besides typical touchup tasks, such as crop, rotate, smooth, etc,\n bit offers some unique features not available in similar programs,\n such as text and vector support and the separation of text and image.\n\n The following is the relevant sections from the man page. \n -----------------------------------------------------------------\n\nPre-Release of May, 1993 BIT(1L)\n\nNAME\n bit - Bitmap Image Touchup for SGI Workstations\n\nDESCRIPTION\n bit is an interactive full color image viewer and editor based on\n Silicon Graphics GL. As a full color program, bit handles images of both\n 24bits and color index in a natural and efficient manner.\n\n As an image viewer, bit allows list of images to be displayed in their\n original type (24bits or color index) in any order and in any of the\n many built-in styles of display. You can walk up and down the list using\n mouse and keyboard, or you can let bit do the walk for you (The\n SlideShow). With the pan and zoom features, large images can be viewed\n in full without being limited by the window or screen size.\n\n As an image editor, bit performs a large number of image editing and\n processing tasks accurately and efficiently. It keeps information loss\n at any stage of the editing process at an absolute minimum by performing\n subpixel sampling automatically while conserving the input image type\n whenever possible to avoid unnecessary promotion and/or quantization of\n input images. You can also cut a piece of an image and paste it into\n another. In addition, arbitrarily colored and sized text and simple\n geometric figures can be rendered on top of an image for annotation with\n the option to make them part of the bitmap or output separately to take\n advantage of the higher printer resolutions (e.g. PostScript).\n\n Bit can also be used as a graphical user interface to many existing\n image processing programs by defining external bindings which in essence\n turn command line oriented programs into bit subfunctions and can be\n accessed by a press of a button, and best of all, the processed image\n will be read back and displayed immediately. Convolution using exter-\n nally defined matrices of arbitrary order can be performed dynamically\n giving great flexibility in processing an image.\n\nFEATURES\n\n Bit performs all of its image manipulations interactively with a\n continuous progress report, and once the processing is complete, \n the processed image will be displayed.\n\n Current features include\n\n o Rotates an image by an arbitrary angle with the option of anti-aliasing\n and filling the \"rotated out\" region with an arbitrary color.\n\n o Scales an image by arbitrary factors in x- and/or y-directions with\n the option of subpixel sampling.\n\n o Renders text of arbitrary color, size or orientation on top of an\n image with the option of rendering directly into the raster or saving\n the text and raster separately, such as into a PostScript file, to\n take advantage of a higher printer resolution. Besides normal text\n strings, many predefined special symbols can be input conveniently as\n in TeX(1), e.g., $\\alpha$\\small$\\beta$ produces Greek alphabet alpha\n followed by a slightly smaller Greek alphabet beta.\n\n o Presents graphically the histogram of an image.\n\n o Performs arbitrary 1-to-1 pixel transformation. The transformation\n function can be specified interactively and can be of arbitrary\n forms. Further, the transformation can be applied to RGB channels\n separately or simultaneously and to the entire image or a portion of\n it. Many difficult tasks, such as thresholding, can be accomplished\n rather easily by 1-to-1 transformation in combination with the avai-\n lability of graphical histograms of the image.\n\n o Places simple geometric figures (SGFs), e.g., arrows, circles, trian-\n gles etc., of arbitrary color, size and orientation into an image at\n arbitrary locations addressed either in absolute pixels or in some\n user definable coordinate system units, with the option of rendering\n directly into the raster or save the sgfs and raster separately (e.g,\n PostScript file). All SGFs can be scaled in x- and y-directions\n independently or simultaneously (this is how to get an ellipse from a\n circle).\n\n o Performs edge detection. In combination with image histograms and 1-\n to-1 transformation, very accurate result can be obtained.\n\n o Performs histogram equalization.\n\n o Performs convolution with externally defined (square) matrices of\n arbitrary order.\n\n o Crops a rectangular portion of an image.\n\n o Cuts and pastes across images.\n\n o Magnifies any portion of an image by any amount.\n\n o Displays a list of images in sequence with a user specifiable pause\n interval between images. (SlideShow)\n\n o Measures RGB intensities of a pixel at any location or all pixels\n along an arbitrary line with the result presented as RGB intensities\n or as an intensity vs. distance plot.\n\n o Performs image type conversions.\n\n o Converts image formats.\n\n o Smoothes an image (Special convolution).\n\n o Filters an image by external programs and read the filtered image\n back and display it.\n\n o Modify an individual pixel's RGB values.\n\n o Performs FFT on the entire image or a portion of it and display the\n resulting power spectra.\n\n o Spray and brush paint in full color (unavailable in this pre-release).\n\n SUPPORTED FORMATS\n o IRIS RGB, native to SGI IRIS\n o JPEG(JFIF) format\n o CompuServ GIF\n o PNM(Portable Any Map), including PPM, PGM and PBM.\n o XBM (X Window Bitmap)\n o TIFF\n o PostScript(Write only)\n\nHardware requirements:\n---------------------------------------------------------------\n Any SGI workstation that supports RGBmode(), including indigoes.\n\nWhere to get it:\n---------------------------------------------------------------\n anonymous ftp to monte.svec.uh.edu /pub/bit/bitxxx.tar.Z\n where xxx is the version number. Current version is 0.73\n\n Read src/01Readme for installation instructions after unpacking\n\nAcknowledgement:\n---------------------------------------------------------------\n JPEG support is based on the Independent JPEG groups's library Version 4.\n FORMS library, developed by Mark Overmars, is used for GUI.\n Both JPEG and FORMS library are included in this release.\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------\n Bit is the program you will ever need to view and annotate\n images; The built-in editing features will satisfy most of\n your editing needs. In addition, the external filter and dynamical\n kernel will utilize any program you already have. So try it\n (and you will like it).", "\n\n\nHi.\n\nHe needs insert the MO before FileSharing get turned on, and the only one\nthat can see the disk is the owner of the machine. (I'm not sure but seems\nthat the check \"Allow owner to see entire disk\" should be enabled too).\n\nA bad thing: you can't eject the disk until FS is turned off.\n\nHope that helps.\n\n--\nPablo A. Millan L. | MIS OPINIONES SON MIAS (pero te las puedo vender)\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nemail : pablo@ing.puc.cl | Seeds Limitada, Santiago, Chile", " \n \nI have noticed this exact same phenomenon occurs with my LCIII. Perhaps it is\na quirk of the new machines?", "From: push@media.mit.edu (Pushpinder Singh)\nSubject: re: Centris 610 Video Problem - I'm having it also!\nDate: Sat, 17 Apr 1993 03:17:45 GMT\n\n\netc.", "The problem is this:\nAfter starting up my machine it gives a high pitched sound once at the desktop also it only does it when the mouse is up or a menu is not showing.\n\nas if I click the mouse the noise goes away for the amount of time the mouse is down. also this problem only happens for about 5-10 minutes.", "Hey folks.\n\nIs it possible to short out your CMOS chip? I think mine is fried.\nThese are the symptoms...\n\nI have to do the following to get my computer (a Gateway 486DX33)\nto boot...\n\n Turn the power off\n\n Disconnect the battery to the CMOS chip\n\n Turn the power on\n\n Get into setup upon getting the CMOS configuration error\n\n Set up the CMOS\n\n Exit the setup with [F10] (phoenix bios)\n\n Ignore the diskette 0 seek error and press [F1]\n\nThe computer then boots normally. Both hard drives are accessible\nbut the floppy drives are not.\n\nI can back up over the network and such, but if I need to reboot,\nI have to turn off the computer and repeat the steps above. If I\nsimply --, the computer hangs after the memory test.\n\nDoes this sound like the CMOS chip is fried? Can I buy another one?\nWhere?\n\nThank you for your kind attention.\n\njohn", "ITEMS FOR SALE - PRICE LISTED OR BEST OFFER!!!!!!!\n\nKFC SVGA Monitor 1024X768 .28DP Non-interlaced 14\" \nScreen, still under warranty! (Brand New) $ 275.00\n\n1200 Baud Compuadd Modem Box/docs/software $ 15.00\n\nCGA Monitor with Cga/Parallel Card $ 30.00\n\nSCO UNIX V3.2.2 Unlimited User OS, has the base\nand extended Utilities, and UUCP $ 125.00\n\nTurbo C/Turbo C++ The complete reference book. $ 15.00\n\nSerial I/O Card 1 serial Port $ 10.00\n\nJoystick, three button $ 10.00\n\nIDE Controller with 2 Serial, 1 parallel and one\nGame port. $ 10.00Each", "\n\n\nOk It is for a game that is 3d and you have listed the characteristics \nthat you are looking for. I think you may have left out a few \nimportant parameters. \nThe polygons are all convex. \nThey have less than N sides. (you are drawing meshes walls doors etc.)\n\nI believe that the algorithms you can get that will only draw convex\npolygons can be much more efficient than those that can draw\nconcave / self intersecting polygons. \nThis efficiency can largely be attributed to the fact that \nsimple convex polygons only have a left and a right edge on each scan line.\nComplex (figure 8 type polygons) can be a bit trickier.\n\nThe less than N sides specification especially if it is a very small \nnumber like 3 or 4 allow othe optimisations to be made.\n\nThus for a high speed game application I think you are looking for\ncode that exploits and is hence limited to drawing simple convex\npolygons. \n\n\nIt may have been that they were very general purpose algorithms.\nIf you limit yourself to 3 or four sided simple convex polygons\nI think you might be suprised how fast a c algorithm with a \nasm block move to fill each scan line might actually be.\n", "\n(formerly Maya computer) advertised a DayStar 33 MHz PowerCache WITH\n68882 for $295! Can you believe it? I know prices would be falling,\nbut geeze!\n\nThought you might be interested...\n\nChuck\n\n\n-- \nChuck Williams ==> CS Intern ==> Pacific Northwest Laboratories", "I would like to program Tseng ET4000 to nonstandard 1024x768 mode by\nswitching to standard 1024x768 mode using BIOS and than changing some\ntiming details (0x3D4 registers 0x00-0x1F) but I don't know how to\nselect 36 MHz pixel clock I need. The BIOS function selects 40 MHz.\n\nIs there anybody who knows where to obtain technical info about this.\nI am also interested in any other technical information about Tseng ET4000\nand Trident 8900 and 9000 chipsets.\n\n\t\t\tthanks very much", "\nThis makes perfect sense if you think about it.\n\nCheap food and cheap movies on the cheapest format. You feel full, but\nthe \"nutritional quality\" just ain't there. :-)\n\n Feast a little...buy Beta!\n\nGreg\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n ED-Beta: Simply THE BEST!\n\"ED Beta is simply the best consumer videotape format available.\"\n --VIDEO Magazine, Nov. 1992, page 30.\n\n\"Manufacturers may have a point when they perceive the U.S. consumer\nelectronics market as unsophisticated.\"\n --VIDEOMAKER, March 1993, page88", "i am sorry, but this genoa card does nothing that the ATI ultra plus 2mb\ncan't do, PLUS the ATI costs 330$US street price ....\n\n", "I have for sale the following:\n\n\tHewlett Packard 500 Deskjet\n\t4 Additional Deskjet Ink Cartridges\n\t8 ft. Parallel Printer Cable\n\nThe printer is approx. 2 years old (7 months of use, and then a year\nin storage during my relocation from Illinois to Columbus) and\nin excellent condition. All original manuals, and boxes are included.\nThe selling price is $325.00 for the entire package. Unwilling to \nbreak it up because what good would cartridges do me without a printer.\n\nIf interested call either (614) 860-2144 or (614) 771-8861. You can also\nrespond via e-mail.", "Is anyone maintaining a list of favorite shareware and public domain Windows \nsoftware?\n\nI have several such lists for MSDOS, but they are really light on Windows\nstuff.", "************************************************\n\n\t\t\tCOLOR 19'' ZENITH TV for SALE\n\n\t\t*************************************************\n\n\n\t\tRemote Control, $60.\n\n\t\tIf Interested, please call 455 6948 or\n\t\t\tE-mail: peng@ece.ucsd.edu\n\n\t\tMust sell by Apr. 30.", "Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My computer from Gateway is freezing up on me.\nGateway tech support couldn't help me. They want more specifics on when\nit freezes up. I DID! Anyway, here it is. If the keyboard is left idle\nin Dos for more than 15 minutes, I can type on the command line, but as \nsoon as I hit a carraige return, the computer locks up. This will happen\nalmost every time, whether I've just booted up, reset, or finished using a\ndos program. Everything works fine if I don't let it sit. Windows is a\ndifferent story. If I let the machine sit while in windows for 15 minutes\nor more, it does not freeze up. However, I do get frequent application\nerrors that kick me out of an application unexpectedly, losing my work.\nI just don't know if this is a hardware or software problem. Any help\nin diagnosis or things to try, would be greatly appreciated. \n\nP.S. I do not run any TSRs (except smartdrive) and QAplus diagnostics \nsays everything is good.\n\n\nSystem is: 486SX-33\n 15\" Crystalscan Gateway Monitor\n VLB-ATI ultra pro (using mach32 driver build 55)\n Winchester 170MB HD\n Microsoft mouse\nThanks,", "I'm going to be purchasing one of these soom for my SS2.\n\nDoes anyone have any experience with this card?\n\nPositive or negative comments welcome!\n\nPlease respond immediately.\n\nThanks,\n\n Joe\n\n", "I am looking for a monitor 17\" or larger that could do 1024x748\n\twith and 8514/A card (PS2/70)\n\n\tI guess I would prefere 19\" and MONO (later becuase of lower price)\n\n\tPlease email me the brand, model, condition and asking price...", "Suppose you want to change the particular icon for a program in\nwindows such as the MS-DOS one. Would someone let me know how you can\ndo this?\n\nThanks a million. ", "If you are a user of Autodesk 3D Concepts, and are willing to answer\na small number of short questions, then please send me Email.", "\n\nHow do you like it compared to OS/2 2.x?", "I have a Headland Technologies Video Seven VRAMII board that only\ncame with 512K, at the time this was ok but...\n\nI need info or help with upgrading this board to 1 Mbyte. There are\n2 rows of pins over the VRAM chips, I think for a piggyback board\nof VRAM. I would like to hear from anyone that may be able to help\nme upgrade this board. Maybe someone from Headland who maybe read-\ning this has one of these piggyback boards just laying around, please\nplease please!\n\nDoes anyone know of where I could maybe buy the upgrade for this? I\nwould sure love to use this in 800X600-256 color mode but for the time\nbeing, I can only get 3/4 of the screen with the bottom part a white\nstrip, obviously because of the missing VRAM, actually I'm surprised\nit even works to this degree at all!", "FOR SALE !!!\n\n DECpc 325sxLP\n\n It's in very good condition, used for one year. It has\n\n - 25 Mhz Intel 386\n - 52 MB Hard Disk\n - Super Color VGA Monitor\n - 2-button mouse\n - 1.44 MG floppy disk drive\n\n Software:\n ------------\n\n - Microsoft Dos 5.0\n - Microsoft Windows 3.1\n - Microsoft Works for Windows 2.0\n - Borland Turbo Pascal 6.0\n - Borland Turbo C++ 3.0 for Dos\n ", "Have you considered the Apple Laserwriter IIg. We use it for all our B&W\nimage printing.\n", "\nAcorn Replay running on a 25MHz ARM 3 processor (the ARM 3 is about 20% slower\nthan the ARM 6) does this in software (off a standard CD-ROM). 16 bit colour at\nabout the same resolution (so what if the computer only has 8 bit colour\nsupport, real-time dithering too...). The 3D0/O is supposed to have a couple of\nDSPs - the ARM being used for housekeeping.\n\n\nA 25MHz ARM 6xx should clock around 20 ARM MIPS, say 18 flat out. Depends\nreally on the surrounding system and whether you are talking ARM6x or ARM6xx\n(the latter has a cache, and so is essential to run at this kind of speed with\nslower memory).\n\nI'll stop saying things there 'cos I'll hopefully be working for ARM after\ngraduation...\n\nMike\n\nPS Don't pay heed to what reps from Philips say; if the 3D0/O doesn't beat the\n pants off 3DI then I'll eat this postscript.", "I am urgently looking for the following article, but I can't seem to\nfind it anywhere here:\n\n \"The Multi-Threaded X Server\"\n John Allen Smith\n The X Resource\n Issue 1, pp. 73-89, Winter 1992\n\nIf anyone can tell me where to find it, it WILL be much appreciated.\n\nH.F. Sadie\nDepartement of Computer Science\nUniversity of Stellenbosch\nSouth Africa", "Hi all News Group users:\nDoes anyone know whether there is some software which will let one do\nText to Speach like the Sound Blaster does?\nHal Adam, HADAM@bcsc02.gov.bc.ca\n", "Greets,\n \nI have an IC I need help in identifying. It is an 8-pin IC with the following\nlabel: W03563 9144w4 \n \nANY help would be greatly appreciated in identifying this chip. \n \nKevin\n\n\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\nKevin Jones KPJONE01@ULKYVX.CT.LOUISVILLE.EDU\nLab Supervisor KPJONE01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU\nComputing and Telecommunications PHONE: 502-588-6303\nUniversity of Louisville, KY FAX: 502-588-0150", "\nI always use the following in my .[t]cshrc:\n\n...\nf ( $?LOGIN == 0 ) then\n source $home/.login\nendif\n...\n\nand in .login:\n\n...\nsetenv LOGIN 1\n...\n\nSo I don't need to set all environment variables in my .cshrc, but they get\nset if I login via xdm or xon | xrsh | rx and so on.\n\nHope this helps,\n\nBernward", "Hi,\n\nI just got a problem, I have a cheapo 2400bps modem which I use to connect\nto my university, but I get too much garbage on the screen. I do know it's\nbecause the noise in the line (I can actually hear it). So my question is\nwill an error correction protocol help to eliminate this garbage?, my modem\ndoesn't have any of these on hardware, can a software implemented protocol\ndo the trick?\n\nThanks.\n\nJuan Carlos Leon\n\n\n\n", "I am trying to find out anything I can about available documentation\nfor IGES and e00(Arc/Info) formats. If you know anything about these\nformats (or just one) PLEASE send me a note. I don't read this group,\nso please send responses to:\n\nmike@prc.utexas.edu\n\nThank You", "I have a nice VXC Moniterm 19 in B/W monitor, formerly used on an ATARI ST.\nI think such monitors are / have been used on macs.\nCan someone tell me what mac can use it, what card I should get to use it, etc..\nThis monitor also has a label on the front saying Viking 2/90, and has a DB9\nconnector.\n\n", "The following items are for sale:\n\n1) ONKYO TX-901/910 reciever/amplifier. Only 2 months old.\n >PERFECT< condition. 45wpc (stereo), 4 speaker ability,\n 40 channel memory, has digital and direct tuning also.\n Plus, it also have an earphone jack... \n\tBought for $350 new. Asking for no less than $250; best\n offer gets it (obviously).\n\t\t ...PRICE DROPPED TO $230...\n - No offers so far; what's the deal? No recievers needed? :(\n\n2)\tTwo ZEOS IBM-External keyboards. Under a month old, bought\n\tfor $90 each new; selling for $35 a piece, or $65 for both.\n\n\tI pay shipping. ", "\nNote that the filesize .dll is a part of the Windows Resource Kit. If\nyou install it (and you can download it from Cica), it will make the\nappropriate changes itself.\n\nkartik\n\n", "\n1) This is NOT a feature of the Window Manager but of xterm.\n2) This sequences are NOT ANSI compatible, are they ?\n Does anyone know IF there are compatible sequences for this and what they\n are ? I would think they are DCS (device control sequence) introduced,\n but may be a CSI sequence exists, too ?\n This MUST work on a dxterm (VT and ANSI compatible), it may not work\n on xterms.\n", "\nOr just use the URT tool: rastorle.\n\n\nYes, both it and the newer xli can.", "I would like to find a Windows 3.x driver for a video board that is\nbased on the Chips & Technologies chipset. The actual board is a\nScorpion Framegrabber made by Univision. It is based on the C&T\nchipset, but only barely supports the graphics mode. I am hoping that\nany C&T driver could be used in the 640x480x256 mode.\n\nThanks.\n\n", "Recently my cousin got a second internal IDE drive (a Seagate 210MB,\nI can look up the model number if it's important) and I've been\ntrying to help him install it. [I've got a vested interest, since\nmy machine's busted and I have to use his until I get mine fixed.]\nHe already has a Seagate 85MB IDE HD (again, I forget the model number\nbut I can find out.)\n\nAnyway, I can't seem to get the bloody thing up. I've managed to get\none or the other drive up (with the other disconnected), but not both\nat the same time; whenever I try, the thing hangs during bootup -\nnever gets past the system test. The IDE controller's instruction\nsheet says it supports two drives; I think I've configured the CMOS\ncorrectly; the power's plugged in properly; I even learned about the\nmaster/slave relationship that two HDs are supposed to have (didn't\nknow PCs were into S&M! 8^) and I think I configured the jumpers\nproperly (the 85MB one is the master, the new 210MB one is the slave).\n\nThe only thing I can think of is maybe I'm doing the cabling wrong. I've\ntried several combinations:\n\ncontroller - master - slave\ncontroller - slave - master\nmaster - controller - slave\n\nNone of them worked. Unfortunately, I can't think of any others.\n\nAnother possibility is that the 85MB one is already partitioned into\ntwo seperate drives, C and D, and the CMOS asks for \"C: drive\" and \"D:\ndrive\" setup info rather than \"drive 1\" and \"drive 2\" like most others\nI've seen. Could this be confusing things?\n\nSo, I need HELP! The drive came bereft of any docs, except for some\ninfo for the CMOS setup; the controller has a little piece of paper\nabout the size of an index card; I cannibalized the cable (it's one\nof those with a connector at each end and the one in the middle, so\nit looks like a serial connection); now I be lost!\n\nMany, many thanks in advance! This is practically an emergency (I have\ntwo papers to do on this thing for Monday!)! Help!\n-- ", "Somewhere in this thread, it has been said that Windows NT (tm) is a \nmulti-user OS, as well as multi-threading, etc. I certainly haven't\nseen this to be the case. There are seperate accounts for each person,\nand even seperate directories if that is desired. I don't see an \nimplentation of simultaneuos use though.\n\n\t\tScott\n\n\n-- ", "well, the subject says just about all I intended to ask:\n\nIs there no way to insert a 256 color into WfW 2.0 ?\n\nWhen I try it, the picture turns into a 16 color pic.\n", "LOCATION: Corona del Mar, CA (Orange County)\n\nFOR SALE: contemporary custom couch\n 7' long ( 3 cushions)\n solid Black\n raw silk-like material\n rolled armrests\n clean design\n excellent condition (left behind @ parents when moved\n out of state)\n $450. or best offer\n\nFOR SALE: Wurlitzer Console Piano w/bench\n Cherry wood\n great condition\n $600. or best offer", "I have two questions:\n\n1) I have been having troubles with my Wordperfect for Windows.\n When I try to select and change fonts, etc. some of the text\n disappears. I tried to center two lines once, and the second\n line disappeared. I can not find the error, and I do not\n know how to correct it.\n\n2) Is this the right newsgroup? Where should I go?\n\nE-mail prefered...\n\n _____\nWho else is still waiting for \"Naked Gun Part (Pi) | | \"", "\n\nWhat I did NOT get with my drive (CD300i) is the System Install CD you\nlisted as #1. Any ideas about how I can get one? I bought my IIvx 8/120\nfrom Direct Express in Chicago (no complaints at all -- good price & good\nservice).\n\nBTW, I've heard that the System Install CD can be used to boot the mac;\nhowever, my drive will NOT accept a CD caddy is the machine is off. How can\nyou boot with it then?\n\n--Dave\n", "\n\nLook for information about 567 tone decoder chip. It is an easy to use\nchip for detecting sound of certain frequency. You need only one\n567 and some other componets for each led you want to control.\nThe chip can take the voltage levels, which the casette gives.\nRadio Shack Archer Semiconductor Reference Guide gives good information\nhow to use that chip. It should be simplest way to go. The chip costs\nsomething like 1-2 $.", "Hi!\n\n I'm looking into buying a serial port switcher, because while my Mac has\ntwo serial ports, I have AppleTalk, a modem, a printer, MIDI, and a sound\ndigitizer. (2 != 5, unfortunately.)\n\n Specifically, I'm looking at the Axion electronic switcher, because it\nseems to be fairly cheap. (About $128 at MacZone.)\n\n Does anyone know anything about it? I've heard that with most of these\nthings you can still only use 2 serial ports at a time, it just prevents you\nfrom physically swapping cables. Although I've also heard that programs\nthat use the Comm Toolbox may be able to use as many serial ports as they\nwant; does anyone know if this is true with the Axion switchbox?\n\n Finally, if the Axion stinks, or if you're using something else that you\nthink is good, I'd be interested in hearing about other products. I would\nlike to spend under $140, if possible.\n\n Please reply through mail; I'm not a regular reader of this newsgroup.\nIf there's interest, I can post a summary of replies.\n\nThanks a lot!", "\nI have one of these monitors. It appears to function OK, but is unhookable\nto anything standard (CGA,EGA,VGA) - it will plug in but gives fuzzy\ndiagonal noise. \nI also have a graphics board that is apparently a 3270 graphic board\n(double card with 2 8-bit bus connectors, and a 9-pin female connector\nwith a picture of monitor). I tried plugging these two into a standard AT\nto no avail. How can one connect these to (the monitor seems to\nbe of relatively high quality, so I'm curious)? Any special drivers and/or\nsetup needed - I can't locate any jumpers on the card.\n", "Hi,\n\tI am in the process of making the decision whether I should\nwrite c++ wrappers for motif myself or use Motif++ or Interviews.\nThough I have downloaded the tar files, I fail to see any\ndocumentation. I have two questions:\n\t1) If you have used these or similar c++sy toolkits what has been\nyour experience?\n\t2) Where do I find reference books /documentation for them?\n\nany and all input will be greatly appreciated.", ": \n: or the biggest killer (IMO)\n: \n: 6) one's dreams are (sadly) shattered on the hard rocks of society's\n: version of reality. Without the dream the motivation dies, without\n: the motivation the effort seems useless.\n: \n\nActually there are more possibilities -- one is that with practice the\nhacker has become so good and powerful in manipulating data streams\nthat s/he goes simply underground...\n\nPossessing true power perhaps there is no need to impress anyone with it.\n", "Try spectrum.xerox.com [192.70.225.78] in /pub/map/dem.\n\n", "Where can I get documentation about the X-Server-Internals?\nBTW, I'm also interested in documentation about TIGA.\n\nAny hints welcome.\n\nThanks, rainer.\n", "Can anyone help me?\n\nI am having a problem displaying images greater than 32768 bytes from a\nDecwindows program running on a Vax 6310, and displaying on a Sparc IPC\nrunning Openwindows 3.0 and dni. The program works fine with Openwindows 2.0.\n\nThe code segment which fails is given below, the program simply crashes\nout with an Xlib I/O error at the XPutImage() call.\n\n\tXImage *ximage;\n\tximage = XCreateImage(myDisplay, DefaultVisual(myDisplay, myScreen), \n\t\t\t ddepth, ZPixmap, 0, image,\n\t\t\t xwid, ywid, 8, 0);\n\tXPutImage(myDisplay, myWindow, myGC,\n\t\t ximage, 0, 0, xpos, ypos, xwid, ywid);\n\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------", "Does anyone have recommendations on whether a smart data I/O (print spooler,\ndigital sampling, etc.) would be better implemented with a DMA chip or a\ndedicated microcontroller? Essentially what I am trying to decide is the best\nway to handle moving data from a port with automatic handshaking from or to a\nmemory area that will be accessible by a main system processor when not in use\nby the smart data I/O.\n \nWhich DMA or microcontroller chip would be best to use? Fast, cheap, and easy\nto obtain would be nice, but I won't limit my choices to only those that fit\nthose characteristics. Even an 8086/8088 (under $5) would do what I want,\nbut I am sure there is a better alternative -- like a microcontroller with\nonchip (E)EPROM.\n \nSo I essentially want to hear about all DMA and microcontrollers that are simple\nto interface and will move data from one place to another while monitoring a\nfew I/O lines.", "This might be a silly question but I have to ask it anyway. I am in\nthe process of purchasing an EISA/VL Bus 486 DX2-66 computer and I\nfound two places that sell machines that have what I want and have the\nsame price. The first is Ares and they use a Cache motherboard (that's\nthe brand of the motherboard) with OPTI chip set, the other is Micron\n(formerly Edge Technology) and they use the Micronics EISA/VLB\nmotherboard.\n\nI said that this might be a silly question since I believe that\nMicronics is a very well known motherboard manufacturer while I never\nheard of Cache! I am however leaning towards the Ares machine because\nmy impression is that they are known for building good, solid machines\nand they have good tech support (24 hr, 7 days/wk), and a better\nwarrantee (2 years). Micron, on the other hand, seems to have\nrecently aquired Edge Technologies and I'm not sure how much I should\ntrust the company.\n\nI would REALLY appreciate any input on this. Is the Micron machine the\nclear choice? Does anyone know anything positive or negative about\neither company? Has anyone ever heard of Cache motherboards? Should I\ngo with Micron just because it has the Micronics motherboard? etc.\n\nThanks very much in advance for any information.\n", "Does anyone know if a Nanao 750i is compatible with any\npopular Mac video cards? I have an oppurtunity to get a brand\nnew one, cheap, and I am very tempted, but it will be a waste\nof time if I can't drive it using a standard video card.\n\nWhile I'm on the subject, what's everybody's reccomendations for\na 21\" color monitor. I've heard good things about the NEC 6FG, and\nof course, there is always the reliable old Macintosh 21\" display,\nbut what are YOUR experiences.\n\nDavid J Harr\nCyberpunk Software.", "Dragon's Lair II ($400 Complete)\n-------------------------------------\n \n \n or \n \n $220 Laser Disc\n $150 Motherboard/Joystick/buttons\n $35 Graphics (For arcade cabinet)\n $50 Brick Power Supply +12/-12/+5\n \n Space Ace ($430 Complete)\n--------------------------------------\n \n or \n \n $250 Laser Disc\n $150 Motherboard/Joystick/buttons\n $35 Graphics (For arcade cabinet)\n $50 Brick Power Supply +12/-12/+5\n \n \n Both Space Ace and Dragon's Lair II ($750)\n-----------------------------------------------\n \n These games require a Sony 1450 Laserdisc player. The\nnice thing about this player is that you can also watch\nnormal Laserdisc movies on it as well. I have one which I\nwill sell for $600 by itself, $550 with a purchase of one\ncomplete system or $500 if you buy both systems.\n \n I currently run this into my entertainment center. I have\nit housed in a PC computer case with with its own fan, and \npower supply. I run the audio into my stereo system, and the\nlaserdisc runs directly into the T.V.. I have made a mount for\nthe joysticks and the buttons. First person who buys both\ngames will get it all, otherwise you have to do it yourself.\n \n If you would prefer to have it all housed in a normal\narcade cabinet this can be done as well. The graphics will\ngo nicely along the sides and front of the cabinet.\n \n Everything works perfectly. The laserdisc player has an\nRS-232 port which you can use to develop your own multimedia\ntype applications. The Laserdiscs have been stored in a safe\nplace and have no scratches on them.\n \n If you are interested please email me.\n \n Thanks,\n \n Soren\n \n--------------------------------------------------------------\nSoren Burkhart\nPurdue University \"Yes, well that is just the sort of\nA.I. & Robotics\t\t blink-headed pig ignorance I have\nzoron@en.ecn.purdue.edu come to expect from you non-creative\n\t\t\t garbage.\"", "[stuff deleted about Microsoft]\nYou must of read too many OS/2 advertisements. \"Crash Protection\" is such\na marketing gimick, it isn't funny.. Out of 4 months of using Windows on my \nnew machine I've only had it crash ONCE, and I don't have a \"run of the mill\"\nconfiguration.\n\nMicrosoft is not a leader in innovation, but they certainly know how to \nbuild a better mousetrap. Now, what's wrong with that??", "Two LH Research SM11-1 power supplies (SM10 series).\n\n1000W, 5V, 200A (currently wired for 115VAC)\n\nControl lines: +/- sense, on/off, pwr.fail, high/low margin, and\ncurrent monitor.\n\n(The list price from LH Research is $824.00 each for qty. 1-9)\n\nAsking $500.00 for the pair.", "I'd like to get a system running OS/2 2.0 GA talking to a network of PCs\nrunning Windows for Workgroups. Acting as a server would be wonderful,\nbut client access would be enough.\n\nCan I run WFW 's NET utilities in a DOS box? Or is there a way to actually\nget OS/2 to talk to WFW? Will OS/2 LanMan clients talk to WFW?\n\nDazed and confused,\n", "\n\nYou might try the recorder and make a micro. I done that to do certain operations \nin a windows app that didn't have the ability to use a micro. It should be in the \nAccessories window. The only problem is that it has to be runing for it to work.\nBut, Good Luck.\n\n", "Hello,\n\nI have a 386sx25 notebook with windows 3.1 running fine. WINWORD 2.0 and \nQUATTRO-PRO for windows also work fine when no virtual memory is used. \nSwitching on the virtual memory option these programs (probably others too) \ndon't work, the system crashes. The same programs work well with arbitrary \nvirtual memory on two other desktop PC's. What am I doing wrong?\n\nIf you can help, please mail to me directly, if possible.\n\nThank you very much in advance.\n\nStefan", "[ Question about packet radio deleted ]\n\nHow about rec.radio.amateur.packet? At least at my site, there is no\ngeneral packet radio (i.e. non-amateur) newsgroup.\n\nThat said, I would definately subscribe to r.r.a.packet if you want to\nlearn about all aspects of amateur packet radio, at both the high and\nlow ends. Also, I would get the FAQ from the group, and then post any\nspecific questions to that group. Everything I could tell you is \nprobably in the FAQ, and the people who really know what's going on all\nseem to be on r.r.a.packet (although they might be here too, you never know :)\n\nHope it helps...", "\n\nFrom: thomas@sunshine.Kodak.COM (Thomas Kinsman)\nNewsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.misc,alt.binaries.pictures.utilities\nSubject: DIB/BMP CREATION GUIDE, as requested.\nKeywords: DIB BMP Bitmaps File Formats\nMessage-ID: <1992Dec23.214432.18764@kodak.kodak.com>\nDate: 23 Dec 92 21:44:32 GMT\nSender: news@kodak.kodak.com\nOrganization: Precambiran Electronics, Rochester, NY\nLines: 484\nXref: cradle.titech comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.misc:3609\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\t\t\t GUIDE TO CREATION OF DIB IMAGES\n\n\n\t\t\t\t Thomas B. Kinsman\n\n\t\t\t Precambrian Electronics\n\t\t\t\t 29 Falstaff Rd.\n\t\t\t\t Rochester, NY 14609\n\t\t\t\t thomask@kodak.com\n\t\t\t Copyright March 15, 1991\n\n\n\n\t\t\t\t\t ABSTRACT\n\n\t The format of images created for use by MS Windows 3.0/3.1\n\t applications is\tdocumented in\tthe MS Windows Programmer's\n\t Reference guide.\tThis guide is intended as a clearify some\n\t wording\tof the specifications, and to put forth a\n\t recommendation among the various alternatives.\n\n\t Please send updates/corrections/suggestions and revisions\t to\n\t me. Please thank me for writing this on my own time by\n\t keeping my name with the document. Thank you for your\n\t respect.\n\n\t This document Copyright, 1991, by Thomas B. Kinsman.\n\t If desired, a PostScript version of\tthis document\t is\n\t available.\n\n\t This information is free.\t You get more than what you pay for.\n\t Don't sue me if I'm wrong.\n\n\n OVERVIEW\n\n The DIB image file format is intended to be a \"Device Independent Bitmap\"\n file format. (What Microsoft means by \"Device Independent\" is unclear to\n me.) Four pixel resolutions are supported: 1 bit, 4 bit, 8 bit, and 24 bit\n pixels.\n\n These images were intended for use on DOS (IBM, or Little-Endian) systems.\n If\tyou are creating them on another architecture you will have to byte-\n swap all short and long integer values.\n\n By convention, DIB images end in the extension \".BMP\". This is because\n\n\n\n\t\t\t March 15, 1991\n\n\n\n\n\n\t\t\t\t - 2 -\n\n\n they are a super-set of earlier \"bitmap image files\". Consequently you\n will sometimes hear DIB files referred to as \"BMP\" files.\n\n Since DIB images files are a super-set, there are three \"flavors\" of DIB\n images:\n\t o DOS DIB images. These are the recommended\t convention, and the\n\t form which I will describe how to create.\t They are intended for\n\t applications running under MS Windows /3.0 in a DOS environment.\n\t o OS/2 DIB images. My understanding is that these are the\tflavor\n\t of DIB images that were used by the Presentation Manager.\n\t o Old-style Bitmap images.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\t\t\t March 15, 1991\n\n\n\n\n\n\t\t\t\t - 3 -\n\n\n DIFFERENCES BETWEEN FLAVORS\n\n The DOS DIB images consist of:\n\t 1. A \"BITMAPFILEHEADER\" file header which identifies the file\t as a\n\t DIB file.\t This\theader\talso gives the total size of the image\n\t file, and the offset to the image data.\n\t 2. A \"BITMAPINFOHEADER\" image header which\t specifies the\t image\n\t attributes.\n\t 3. An optional palette of colors used by the image. If it exists,\n\t this may contain 2, 16, or 256 entries. Each entry is a Windows\n\t RGBQUAD structure.\n\t 4. The image data itself.\n\n\n The OS/2 DIB images consist of:\n\t 1. The same \"BITMAPFILEHEADER\" file header which identifies the file\n\t as\t a DIB\t file.\t This header also gives the total size of the\n\t image file, and the offset to the image data.\n\t 2. A \"BITMAPCOREHEADER\" image header which\t specifies the\t image\n\t attributes.\n\t 3. An optional palette of colors used by the image. Again, if this\n\t exists it\t may contain 2, 16, or 256 entries. Each entry is a\n\t Windows RGBTRIPLE structure.\n\t 4. The image data itself.\n\n\n The Old Style image bitmap consists of:\n\t 1. Either a BITMAPINFOHEADER or a BITMAPCOREHEADER.\t Which\theader\n\t type is determined by the first long integer (DWORD) value.\n\t 2. An optional color palette.\t This\tpalette\t may be composed of\n\t either Windows\tRGBQUAD\t structures (if the\theader\twas a\n\t BITMAPINFOHEADER) or Windows RGBTRIPLE structures (if the\theader\n\t was a BITMAPCOREHEADER).\n\t 3. The image data itself.\n\n\n CREATING DIB IMAGE FILES.\n\n Creating a DOS DIB image file consists of several straight forward\tsteps.\n The headers need to be created and then written to the file. These header\n structures are defined in the MS Windows/3.0 \"windows.h\"\tinclude\t file.\n Palette information needs\t to be\t stored for images that are not 24-bit\n images. The five general steps are:\n\t 1. Filling in the BITMAPFILEHEADER\t and\tthe BITMAPINFOHEADER\n\t structures the basic image information.\n\t 2. If the image is a 1-bit, 4-bit, or an 8-bit image,\t creating the\n\t color palette of RGBQUADS.\n\t 3. Calculating the total file size and putting this information in\n\n\n\n\t\t\t March 15, 1991\n\n\n\n\n\n\t\t\t\t - 4 -\n\n\n\t the \"bfSize\" field of the BITMAPFILEHEADER.\n\t 4. Calculating the offset to the image data from the\tstart of the\n\t file, and putting this in the \"bfOffBits\"\tfield of the\n\t BITMAPFILEHEADER.\n\t 5. Writing to the file the BITMAPFILEHEADER,\tthe BITMAPINFOHEADER,\n\t the color palette, and the image data (in that order).\n\n The following sections describe structures in terms of MicroSoft C\t type-\n defined keywords.\tThe following table describes these keywords for those\n not familiar with MicroSoft C.\n\n\t\t _______________________________________\n\t\t |\t\t\t\t\t |\n\t\t | Type-defined keywords in MicroSoft C.|\n\t\t |______________________________________|\n\t\t | typedef |\t meaning\t\t |\n\t\t |_________|____________________________|\n\t\t | BYTE |\t unsigned character\t |\n\t\t | WORD |\t two byte unsigned integer |\n\t\t | DWORD |\t four byte unsigned integer|\n\t\t |_________|____________________________|\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\t\t\t March 15, 1991\n\n\n\n\n\n\t\t\t\t - 5 -\n\n\n THE BITMAPFILEHEADER\n\n This structure is defined in \"windows.h\" as:\n\t typedef struct tagBITMAPFILEHEADER {\n\t\t WORD\t bfType;\n\t\t DWORD\t bfSize;\n\t\t WORD\t bfReserved1;\n\t\t WORD\t bfReserved2;\n\t\t DWORD\t bfOffBits;\n\t } BITMAPFILEHEADER;\n\n The \"bfType\" field is the two ascii characters 'B' and 'M'.\t This\tserves\n to\tidentify the file as\t a DIB\t image file. On an intel byte ordered\n machine (IBM or a compatible), this constant can be formed\tin C as the\n quantity ('M' << 8 | 'B') == 0x4d42 on an intel system.\n\n The \"bfSize\" field is the total size of the file. For our\tpurposes this\n field is equal to: the size of the BITMAPFILEHEADER, plus the size of the\n BITMAPINFOHEADER, plus the number of entries in the\t color\tpalette\t times\n the\t size of a RGBQUAD, plus the number of bytes of image data.\tIf the\n image data is being written out in an uncompressed form, this value can be\n calculated\tahead of time. Otherwise, this field needs to be filled in\n later.\n\n Both the \"bfReserved1\" and the \"bfReserved2\" fields are always set to\n zero.\n\n The \"bfOffBits\" field is set to the offset to the start of the image data\n from the start of the file. For our purposes, this field should be set\n to:\t the size of\tthe BITMAPFILEHEADER,\t plus\t the size of the\n BITMAPINFOHEADER, plus the number of entries in the color palette times\n the size of a RGBQUAD. This works out because the image data is written\n write after the color palette if one exists.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\t\t\t March 15, 1991\n\n\n\n\n\n\t\t\t\t - 6 -\n\n\n THE BITMAPINFOHEADER\n\n This structure is defined in \"windows.h\" as:\n\t typedef struct tagBITMAPINFOHEADER{\n\t\t DWORD\t biSize;\n\t\t DWORD\t biWidth;\n\t\t DWORD\t biHeight;\n\t\t WORD\t biPlanes;\n\t\t WORD\t biBitCount;\n\t\t DWORD\t biCompression;\n\t\t DWORD\t biSizeImage;\n\t\t DWORD\t biXPelsPerMeter;\n\t\t DWORD\t biYPelsPerMeter;\n\t\t DWORD\t biClrUsed;\n\t\t DWORD\t biClrImportant;\n\t } BITMAPINFOHEADER;\n\n The \"biSize\" field is set to the size of the BITMAPINFOHEADER structure\n itself. When reading the image\t file,\tthis value is what is used to\n determine that the image\t contains a BITMAPINFOHEADER\t and not a\n BITMAPCOREHEADER.\n\n The \"biWidth\" field is the width of the image in image pixels.\n\n The \"biHeight\" field is the height of the image in image lines.\n\n The \"biPlanes\" field should always be set to 1. This data is written out\n as if there was one color plane.\n\n The \"biBitCount\" field is the bit-depth of the image. This must be either\n 1, 4, 8, or 24, depending on the bit-depth of the image data.\n\n The \"biCompression\" field tells how the image data is compressed if it is\n compressed.\t DIB\timages\tsupport\t two forms of\t run-length encoding.\n However, I have never seen any images which use it, and don't know yet how\n it works. Set this field to zero (long zero, or 0L), to indicate that the\n data is not compressed.\n\n All subsequent fields of the BITMAPINFOHEADER structure may be set to\n zero. A requirement of\tthe interpretting software that it be able to\n compute these fields as necessary from the previous information.\n\n The field which you might want to explicitly specify might be \"biClrUsed\".\n For\t 4-bit\tand 8-bit images this field\t indicates that not all of the\n possible color entries are used and that the image\t contains \"biClrUsed\"\n colors. If you are using only 32 colors with an 8-bit image, then you may\n only want to save 32 of the possible 256 palette entries. Generally, set\n this field to zero.\n\n\n\n\t\t\t March 15, 1991\n\n\n\n\n\n\t\t\t\t - 7 -\n\n\n COLOR PALETTES\n\n Each entry of a color palette is\t a RGBQUAD structure.\t The RGBQUAD\n structure is defined in the \"windows.h\" include file as:\n\t typedef struct tagRGBQUAD {\n\t\t BYTE\t rgbBlue;\n\t\t BYTE\t rgbGreen;\n\t\t BYTE\t rgbRed;\n\t\t BYTE\t rgbReserved;\n\t } RGBQUAD;\n The \"rgbReserved\" field is always zero. For each color used, the\tamount\n of Blue, Green, and Red are filled into the structure and the structure is\n written to the file. A value of zero in the \"rgbBlue\", \"rgbGreen\", or\n \"rgbRed\" fields indicates that\tthat particular component does not\n contribute to the color composition. A value of 255 in\tany of\t these\n fields indicates that the component contributes fully\t to the color\n composition.\n\n\n\n IMAGE DATA\n\n There are three surprises about the ordering of image data\tin DIB\t image\n file. The\t creator of this format was determined to be creative, and\n certainly was.\n\n Within the image data, each line written out is padded to the next four\n byte quantity. So, if you had an 8-bit image which was only one pixel\n wide, you still have to write out four bytes for every image line. The\n number of bytes per line can be calculated as:\n\n\t\t bytes_per_line = (width_in_pix * bit_depth + 31 ) / 32 * 4;\n\n\t---or, in terms of the fields of the BITMAPINFOHEADER structure---\n\n\t\t bytes_per_line = (biWidth * biBitCount + 31 ) / 32 * 4;\n\n\n When writing out your image data, you must write it out bottom line first.\n The\t bottom line of the image as you would look at it on the screen is the\n first line of image data in the file.\n\n For 1-bit, 4-bit, and 8-bit images, information is written\tas you\t would\n expect. One bit\timages\tare padded eight pixels to a byte. Four bit\n images are padded two pixels to a byte. Eight bit images are written one\n pixel per byte. Twenty-four bit images are written three bytes per pixel.\n However, for 24-bit images the information must be\t written out in the\n order blue, green, red. While most image file formats write data out in\n\n\n\n\t\t\t March 15, 1991\n\n\n\n\n\n\t\t\t\t - 8 -\n\n\n an \"RGB\" ordering, a DIB image file\t writes\t the data out\t in an\t \"BGR\"\n ordering.\n\n SUMMARY\n\n This should provide enough information\tto create DIB\t images\t from\n applications such\tas scanners or for image exporting routines.\tIf you\n find out any more about DIB images, please pass the information on\tto me\n so that I can modify this document accordingly.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\t\t\t March 15, 1991\n\n\n--\n Thomas B. Kinsman, Rochester, NY, thomas@acadia.kodak.com\n \"Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.\"\t-anon\n", "\nTry Parts Express in Dayton, Ohio also. They have a complete line of \nprofessional arcade buttons, joysticks etc...\n\nThe have a 1-800 number so call 1-800-555-1212 and ask them what the 1-800\nnumber for Part Express in Dayton, Ohio is. I love the free 1-800 directory \nassistance...\n\n - Dan\n-- \n Daniel Joseph Rubin rubin@cis.ohio-state.edu ", "Can anyone share their experiences, good or bad, with a Tempe vendor\nnamed Motherboard Warehouse? I'm considering purchasing one of their\n486dx2/66 boards. One of the selling points is their 10 day full money\nback guarantee.", "\n\tActually, for digital HDTV systems that's far higher bandwidth than\nyou need, unless there's some reason you must work in fully-uncompressed\nHDTV. Also, my calculations is that each frame should be well under 6MB,\neven using 24 bits/pixel (which is more bits than you actually need - 15 or\n18 should be enough for a moving picture). 1600x1100x16bits is 3.5MB (I'm\nguessing at HDTV resolution - it may be a bit wider than 1600, I'm fairly\nsure of the 1100 number for most of the digital proposals).\n\n\tI hope you have a very fast memory system as well - 180MB/s while\ndisplaying will require a heavily interleaved VRAM system.\n\n\tUnless you have a _very_ compelling reason, I'd advise trying to use\nat least somewhat compressed data. You don't have to go to full compression\nto get to a level where the data IO requirements are much cheaper and easier\nto deal with.\n\n-- \nGNU Emacs is a LISP operating system disguised as a word processor.\n - Doug Mohney, in comp.arch", "Sun SPARKstation laptop Workstation for $2500 or best offer.\n\n- 16M RAM expandable to 48M\n- 200M hard drive \n- 3.5\" floppy drive\n- OS 4.1.\n- Open windows 3\n- LCD display\n- scsi -2\n- mouse\n- AC adaptor, manuals, carring case.\n\n\n Posted for a friend. Please contact him directly.", "PLEASE REPLY TO THE FOLLOWING ADDRESS:\n\t\thani.akhras@jhuapl.edu\n__________________________________\n\nThe following discs are for sale:\nAll discs are postage paid.\n\n\n\nCamouflage|Methods Of Silence|$8 ppd\nRevenge|One True Passion|$8 ppd\nCabaret Voltaire|Technology:Western Re-Works 1992|$8 ppd\nSoul II Soul|Keep On Moving (CD5)|$5 ppd\nSoul II Soul|Vol II: A New Decade|$8 ppd\nLee Perry & The Upsetters|All The Hits|$8 ppd\nThe Daou|Head Music|$7 ppd\nBizzare Inc|Energique|$8 ppd\n\n\nThe following cassettes are for sale:\n2 Minimum\n\nLiving in a Box| Living in a Box|$3|CS|\nMichael Jackson|Thriller|$3|CS|\nOlivia Newton John|Physical|$3|CS|\nSteel Pulse|Reggae Greats|$3|CS|\n\n__________________________________", "Gene's stuff for sale...NEW PRICES!!!\n\nThe following items are for sale:\n\nQty. Description List Price\n________________________________________________________________________\n\n1 SuperMac ColorLink SX/T 24 bit NuBUS/10BASE-T 750.00 _549.00_\n This card is primo! selling for $675 mailorder\n It suports monitors up to 19 in. with 28\" x 28\"\n virtual desktop. Accelerated, hardware pan, etc!\n This quick sale price includes free 2nd day air!\n \n1 Seagate ST1480 430 meg 3.5 in HD 2 mo. old 989.00 675.00\n\nNOTE: All hardware is in normal working order. Prices do NOT include\n shipping. All items shipped COD (USA) or pre-paid (anywhere)\n\nSold:\n1 IIsi NuBUS adapter card with FPU 189.00 _115.00_\n\nFor any items please contact:", "\n: 09.05.93, 14:48\n\n: Hi out there !\n\n: Is there anybody who can write me how to add icons to the iconlist (which\n: is build-into) of Progman.exe ?\n\n: I'm grateful for every clue !\n\n: Thanx and have a nice day !\n\nOne way is to use a program called Iconmaster. It's shareware and If you can't\nget it mail me, and I'll post it to you.\n\n", "\nI had mention in a previous article that I was searching for the 300 external\ndrive. I did call Apple Catalog as recommended and they told me the drives\nwere back ordered until May 8. I placed an order anyways and two days later\nI had a visit from Federal Express. Well, you can guess how I spent my weekend.\nOf course I ended up paying list price but you do get a free copy of PC Exchange\nwhen you order from the Apple Catalog. You may want to check if they have any\ninternal drives.", "\n\n\tI'm not sure who the \"original respondent\" was but to\nreiterate cones respond to particular portions of the spectrum, just\nas _rods_ respond to certain parts of the visible spectrum (bluegreen\nin our case, reddish in certain amphibia), just as the hoseshoe crab\n_Limulus polyphemus_ photoreceptors respond to a certain portion of\nthe spectrum etc. It is a common misconception to confound wavelength\nspecificity with being color sensitive, however the two are not\nsynonymous.\n\tSo in sum and to beat a dead horse:\n\t(1) When the outputs of a cone are matched for number of\nabsorbed photons _irrespective_ of the absorbed photons wavelength,\nthe cone outputs are _indistinguishable_.\n\t(2) Cones are simply detectors with different spectral\nsensitivities and are not any more \"color sensitive\" than are rods,\nommatidia or other photoreceptors.\n\t(3) Color vision arises because outputs of receptors which\nsample different parts of the spectrum (cones in this case) are\n\"processed centrally\". (The handwave is intentional)\n\n\tI've worked and published research on rods and cones for over\n10 years so the adherence to the belief that cones can \"detect color\"\nis frustrating. But don't take my word for it. I'm reposting a few\nexcellent articles together with two rather good but oldish color\nvision texts.\n\nThe texts:\nRobert Boynton (1979) _Human Color Vision_ Holt, Rhiehart and Winston\n\nLeo M. Hurvich (1981) _Color Vision_, Sinauer Associates.\n\n\nThe original articles:\nBaylor and Hodgkin (1973) Detection and resolution of visual stimuli by\nturtle phoreceptors, _J. Physiol._ 234 pp163-198.\n\nBaylor Lamb and Yau (1978) Reponses of retinal rods to single photons.\n_J. Physiol._ 288 pp613-634.\n\nSchnapf et al. (1990) Visual transduction in cones of the monkey\n_Macaca fascicularis_. J. Physiol. 427 pp681-713.\n\n-- \nEdwin Barkdoll\nbarkdoll@lepomis.psych.upenn.edu\neb3@world.std.com", "Two questions:\n1: I'm trying to figure out how to access cmos advanced chip setting on a\nEISA motherboard (AIR) that has AMI bios..specifically I would like to set\nthe atclk or wait states or bus speed on this board, I can't seem to be\nable to do it..any help in this area would be greatly appreciated.\n\n2: I am looking for a phone number for WANGTEK tape drives, specifically I\nam looking for jumper settings on a 5099EN24 drive..", "For sale\n--------\n\nSTR-AV1070 Audio Receiver\n-------------------------\n120 Watts per channel\nDolby Surround sound with Pro Logic\nLearning Programmable remote\n10 Watts per channel for surround sound\nSupports Dual Room Link Control (to hear another source in a different room)\nIndex filing of all radio stations\n7 band equilizer with real-time analyzer\n\nI need to get $450 for this unit or best offer.\n\nCDP-C910 Sony ten disc changer\n------------------------------\nTen disc cartridge\nCustom File of your favorite program or title or volume for each disc\n\t\t(Up to 184 disc memory!)\nRemote control\nFixed and Variable volume outputs\nOptical output\n8x Oversampling rate\n\n$325 firm.\n\nI purchased these items about 6 months ago and need to sell them now to\nbuy a house. Both units are in immaculate shape and are priced to move.\n", "\nI use Arts & Letters on a PC and if you make use of the Tracing Preferences\nit traces beautifully. BUT - there's a trick to tracing. I've traced entire\ncartoon images into custom clip art, but you can't expect to just point to\nthe image and get it just like that, it takes a little work (in some cases\na lot of work). You need to trace a drawing piece by piece, and then put it \ntogether... it's kinda hard to explain in type, but if you're ever in Reno\nI can give you a little demonstration!\n", "Does anyone else make low radiation emission monitors besides NEC?\n\nHow do they compare to NECs (quality and emission-wise)?\n\nTIA,\n\nLes\n\n\n", "To: All\n\nUniden Cordless Phone-Model XE 300. Perfect working condition, but\nbase station is missing its antenna (the antenna mount is intact).\n$25, shipping included if prepaid.\nDO NOT REPLY TO: dino.fiabane@pics.com. Your mail will bounce if\nit is sent to that address. Instead, please reply only via\nprivate E-Mail to: pics!dino.fiabane@twwells.com\n(Since my home BBS can only handle personal messages through\nE-Mail for the time being, any further replies from me to you\nwill also arrive via E-Mail instead of by way of a regular\nnewsgroup.)\nDino Fiabane, 150 Weston Drive, Cherry Hill, NJ 08003-2132\nphone (609) 424-3836\n\n\n * SLMR 2.1a * reply to: pics!dino.fiabane@twwells.com via E-Mail\n ", "\nIT'S BACK!!!!!!\n\nCongratulations, you've just discovered a very nasty, and very frequently\necountered, bug in the Word Setup program. Once you know what is wrong, it\nis quite easy to fix. Go into the Fonts dialog under Control Panel, and select\nthe two fonts MT Extra and Fences. Delete them, but only delete the list\nentries, not the disk files. Now select Add, and add the fonts MT Extra Plain\nand Fences Plain. Close the Font box, close Control Panel, and restart Word.\nEverything should be alright now.\n\nDoes anyone know if Microsoft has fixed this thing yet? They HAVE to know\nabout it by now, it's been so frequently reported.", "Hello,\n\nCan somebody tell me what kind of MOV's are most useful for a computer\nsurge protector? Radio Shack have 2 types, both rated 130V, one for\na 10A current and the other for 20A. On the other hand, commercial surge\nprotectors I have seen claim a clamping voltage of 330V-400V, which SEEMS to\nme in imply a rated voltage of about 250V (250V * SQRT(2.)=353).\n\nWhat is the right kind?\n\nWhile at it, ow important is really the EMI/RFI module? Is there really any\nnoticable level of such noise in the power line?\n\nPlease- E-MAIL to me, as this group has too much volume for me to be able\nto follow.", "I am looking for information on infra red based position encoders.\n\nThe idea would be to bounce the infrared source off a wall and the device would\nread out the distance.\n\npreferable it would be rs-232 addressable.\n\n\n\nAny leads?\n\n", "I am looking for some good quality graphics files which are\nsuitable for use in church-related presentations. I prefer vector,\nbut anything would be helpful.\n\nIf you know of bulletin boards which have collections of this nature, or\ncommercial products, please inform me by email:\n\nHASTON@UTKVX.UTK.EDU", "\n\n >Hi... what alternatives to the Express modem do Duo owners have (if\n >they want to go at least 9600 baud)?\n\n >Every place in town says they are back ordered, and part of the reason\n >I want a laptop mac is so I can use it as a remote terminal from\n >wherever I am, but I really would hate to have to wait 2 months to get\n >a modem in or have to settle with 2400 baud.\n\nIf Apple didn't put out such a good product -- I'd gladly take my\nbusiness to -- to -- the 8-bit Ataris. I think the\nsituation with the Express modem is inexusable for any business.\nI've had mine on order since January. Apple finally called me last\nweek -- to tell me that I should have it \"by the second week of May.\"\nIn the meantime, I've been stuck with my Duo210 without the\nconnectability I needed it for. I'm sure there are plenty of people\nwho can bite back at me, citing all sorts of reasons why Apple is\nright or at least justified, but I'm just a crabby consumer and\nwhen I order a \"Duo210 with modem\" that's the product I expect.\n\nOh, well. It's not like it's limited to the computer biz. Remember\nwhen the Miata came out? What about those Cabbage Patch Dolls? Well,\nI want my toy! ;)\n\n\n\n-- \n-----------------------------------------------------------------\nKenneth Simon Dept of Sociology, Indiana University\nInternet: KSSIMON@INDIANA.EDU Bitnet: KSSIMON@IUBACS ", "Hi,\n I have normal procomm plus for dos, but I've been considering buying\nthe windows version....it got really great reviews in computer shopper.\nI have a friend who connects to the mainframe and unix machines here\nusing it, but the screen seems to have a problem keeping up with the\nmodem....he has a 14,400 modem on a 486 50 Mhz machine. I can't\nsee it having trouble keeping up. His pcplus for dos works great,\nbut the windows just seems to always screw up....Is this common\nand is there a fix? Or is something just screwed with his machine?\n\t\t\t\t\tKent\n", "\nAre you saying that you have some extras that you would like to do some cost\nrecovery on? I may be interested. I think for practical and cost reasons I\nam limited to envelope detection so that leaves me with only increasing the\noutput power and increasing the optical gain at the receiver as methods to\nextend range.\n\n\nYes I'm interested in the company name. I have access to an extensive data\nbook collection. With that kind of power, are we getting into an area where\neye safety is getting to be a problem.\n\n\nThey are a long way from me but they might be a better source than I can find\naround here.\n\n\nI'm keeping my application confidential for now. Raising the frequency should\nbe no problem, in fact one respondent to my question said that I may not have\nto mimic the 50% duty cycle normally used by IR detector chips.\n\n--", "Seeing all these questions about uart types, their availability, and their\nrelative merits, wouldn't it be fine, if for internal highspeed modems there\nwere a mode of operation bypassing the dull and stupid uart interface and\ninstead accessing directly the relatively large send/receive buffers of the \nmodem, thus eliminating all problems with interrupt latencies ?\nJust an idea,\nWolfgang R. Mueller ,\nComputing Centre, Heinrich-Heine-University, Duesseldorf, Germany.\n", "\n\n\nWe had a similar problem in converting a .EPS file. The solution was simple.\nWe changed the first line from %!PS-Adobe-3.0 to\n\n%!PS-Adobe-2.0\n\nThis fouled the converter, the .EPS file only contained very simple \nmove and draw statements.\n\nMario", "\n:>re: majority of users not readding from floppy.\n:>Well, how about those of us who have 1400-picture CD-ROMS and would like to use\n:>CVIEW because it is fast and it works well, but can't because the moron lacked\n:>the foresight to create the temp file in the program's path, not the current\n:>didrectory?\n\n\n: Actually the most flexible way to create temp files is to check for a TEMP or\n: TMP environment variable and create the files on the drive and directory pointedto by the variable. This is pretty much a standard for DOS, Windows and OS/2\n: applications.\n\nUnfortunately, cview does not pay attention to the temp environment variable.", "Wanted\n\nAn LCD Overhead Monitor for my school. (CGA)\nLooking for one in fairly good shape but the school doesn't have alot\nof money to spend. If you have one or know of one for sale please\nE-mail me.\n\nThanks,\n\n Jonathan", "16 bit MFM FD/HD controller \t- $25/b.o.\n\ncopy card w/ software and cable\t- $30/b.o.\n(can copy any protected software)\n\nif interested, please reply to this account\n", "\nNo, but some OS's ( COHERENT , etc ) are able to drive one of the ports in\npolled mode without using the IRQ. In your example, after accessing the\nmodem, the mouse won't work until you reboot, because the IRQ is used by\nthe modem.\n\n\nYes, you can change the IRQ's for com3/4, but it depends on your other\nhardware. com1 uses IRQ4, com2 IRQ3. If you have only one printerport \n( IRQ7 ), you can change com3 to IRQ5 ( normally 2nd printer ). For com4,\nyou can assign IRQ2, if its free. As far as I know, no other IRQ can be\nused until your I/O-card is 16bit and caould access IRQ's > 8.\n\nMichael", "My school is settinÿûg up a new network with bothe Macs and Apple II's. I'm\nused to ethernet, and don't know muÿch about LocalTalk. Two things: first,\nin MacWherehouse, btheÿy have PowerUser network connectors, and the caption\nleads you to belÿûieve that you can plug them into the phone lines in the\nbuilding and have them work. Is this true? I've seen it done by running\nsepÿerate phone cords, but never with real lines. Second, if that does work,\ncould you use a modem ÿhooked up to that same line while the network was\nactive? Help would be greatly appriciated. BTW-ÿ’running seperate phone line \nis out of the question, the network wil VERRY spread o.\n\nEriCronin\n_______________________________________________________________________________\n Bringing a kind word and a helpful Spirit wherever we can, we are...\n-+- THE ASSOCIATION - a multi-line Macintosh BBS in Grand Blanc, Michigan!\n Echoes from Fido, InterNet, FamilyNet, ICDMnet, K-12 - PLUS 2Gb files\n at 313-695-6955 HST/v.32bis.\n___________________________________________________________________ Testify 2.0\n", "I was wondering, since I've got a few fax machine scanners \nintact, if they could be integrated to the pc environment as a \nmono-scanner? If so, where to start?!\n \n Thanks.\n \n \n _________________________________________________\n Inspiration | ___ |\n comes to | \\ o baden@sys6626.bison.mb.ca |\n those who | ( ^ ) baden@inqmind.bison.mb.ca |\n seek the | /-\\ =] Baden de Bari [= |\n unknown. | |", "Look in the /pub/SPACE directory on ames.arc.nasa.gov - there are a number\nof earth images there. You may have to hunt around the subdirectories as\nthings tend to be filed under the mission (ie, \"APOLLO\") rather than under\t\nthe image subject.\t", "I can't find CTDS (Connect The Dots Smoother) in France. If it is a commercial\nprogram I'll happily pay whatever it may cost (do not take it litterally).\nPlease help!\nI have *LOTS* of PoV sources, texture images and animations though, if you\nare looking for something, just tell.\n", "Storage space for sale:\n \n Iomega 44 MB removeable HD for sale w/ 16 cartridges.\n \n Total storage space comes out to be about 750 MB. 6 cartridges still in\n original shrinkwrapping, unused. Note: this is NOT compatible with\n SysQuest 45 cartridges.\n \n SCSI interface required... plugs right into the back of Macintoshes,\n but I don't have a controller for the IBM. All utilities I have for it\n are for the Mac. If you have a Mac, then this is for you! I have a\n ton of software on these disks that I don't use anymore, because I sold\n my mac system. Stuff included: Most of the PD stuff from info-mac\n site, LOTS of GIF's, and LOTS of sound effects. (1 entire disk with\n just sounds)\n \n I am asking $900 for all, plus shipping.\n\n For more information, send me mail (cxs2341@ultb.isc.rit.edu) or call\n (716) 427-0701... ask for Sawran\n \n cheers", "If you are interested in (any of) the following, please contact me:\n EMail mbeck@vtssi.vt.edu\n Phone (703)552-4381\n USMail Michael Beck\n 1200 Progress Street #5500E\n Blacksburg, Virginia 24060\n~~~~~~~~~~FOR SALE as of 12AM 4/16/93~~~~~~~~~~\n \n1 PANASONIC AF X8 CCD OmniMovie Camcorder\n VHS HQ\n High Speed Shutter\n Flying Erase Head\n ca. 3 years old, but only used VERY lightly\n Date/Time stamp\n Counter/Memory\n Rec Review\n Fade\n Back Light\n Auto/Manual Focus\n Built in microphone/Jack for external microphone\n Comes with:\n Sturdy aluminum/hardplastic carrying case\n (20\" long X 13\" wide X 6\" high)\n Shoulder strap\n Power adaptor/battery charger\n Battery pack\n Remote recording controller\n UHF/VHF ---> cable adaptor\n Audio/Video cables and adaptor\n Aproximate dimensions (measured around outmost features)\n 15\" long X 4\" wide X 8\" high (w/ handle)\n ASKING PRICE: $BEST OFFER ($700 new price)\n \n1 AMIGA 3000UX 25mhz, unix compatible machine w/100 meg Hard\n Drive, 4 meg RAM, no monitor, keyboard (ESC and ~ keys \n broken)\n ASKING PRICE: $1500 OBO.\n \nmult. PROTEON P1390 token ring cards \n \nSOLD!! AT&T Portable Cellular Phone, Model 3730\n ASKING PRICE: $SOLD FOR $350 (Listed at $600 new)", "=========================\ncommodore 128\nepson homewriter 10 9 pin printer\n1571 d/s disk drive\n2 joysticks\n1 mouse\nlotsa software, both games and apps.\nrapid fire joystick adapter\n==========================\nabout a year old\n\n$130 OBO\n", "HI there! I have a few games that I'd like to run under Windows 3.1 and can't\nget the PIFS adjusted right. For example Wing Commander. In my DOS Prompt, I\nhave more than 620K available for programs. This is enough to run WC.\nSo I build a PIF giving WC a couple of megs of extended memory etc.. and run \nit. WC prompts: \"Loading Wing Commander...\" and then a message about \n\"Using extended memory...\" etc... and then my screen goes black (just before\nthe opening scene-the orchestra-would have appeared.)\n\nI also have a pool game that does almost the same thing. It opens up and\nprompts me for what kind of video driver I have. (CGA, EGA, etc...) I\nrespond EGA and the screen goes black. \n\nOn both of these a ctrl-alt-del getss me back to Windows. \n\nHas ANYONE run Wing Commander under Windows? Or has had the problems I\ndescribe and fixed them? HEre's the rest of my setup:\n\n\t400MB Disk Free\n 8MB memory ~5 free during WIN session\n 386DX-25\n \nRespond here or on E-Mail. If anyone else needs this info, send me mail in\na couple of days, and I'll forward the replies to you.\n\n-- \n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n Clinton A. Pierce | Cartesian Bear = Polar Bear after coordinate transform\nclintp@world.std.com |", "I'm looking to find some people interested in getting some cd-rom's. Below\nis a list with their prices. If you are interested in any of these, send me\nsome mail and I can guarantee this price. If you are not local their will be\na shipping cost, and cod cost if you prefer it to be shipped that way.\nMarcus\n\n\nAmerican Business Phonebook DOS $20.00\nAnimals DOS $30.00\nAnimals MPC $30.00\nAudoban Birds DOS $20.00\nAudoban Mammals DOS $20.00\nBarney Bear Goes to School DOS $30.00\nBible Library DOS $45.00\nBibles and Religion DOS $15.00\nBook of Lists DOS $30.00\nBritannicas Family Choice DOS $23.00\nBritamrica Select DOS $24.33\nBusiness & Economics DOS $30.00\nBusiness Backgrounds DOS $20.00\nBusiness Master DOS $20.00\nCarmen San Diego lWhere is ...) MPC $30.00\nCD PLay/Launch DOS $25.00 \nCD ROM Software Jukebox DOS $20.00\nCIA Vorld Taur DOS $35.00\nChess Master 3000 MPC DOS $35.00\nCLassic Col lection DOS $60.00\nCLipert Goliath \t\t DOS $15.00\nColossal Cookbook DOS $15.00\nDeLorme's Atlas USA WIN $25.00\nDesert Storm MPC $35.00\nDeathstar Arcade Battles DOS $15.00\nDictionaries & Language DOS $15.00\nEducation Master DOS $20.00\nELectronic Home Library DOS $35.00\nFamily Doctor DOS $30.00\nFamily Encyclopedia by Comptons DOS $49.00\nFamily Encyclopedia by Comptons MPC $49.00\nGame Master DOS $20.00\nGame Pack II DOS $25.00\nGolden Immortal DOS $25.00\nGreat Cities of the World DOS $25.00\nGreet Cities of the World MPC $30.00\nGreat Cities of the World II DOS $25.00 \nGreat Cities of the World II MPC $30.00\nGroliers Encyclopedia DOS $60.00\nGroliers Encyclopedia MPC $60.00\nGuiness Disc 1992 DOS $15.67\nHam Radio\t\t DOS $15.00\nInformation USA\t DOS\t $35.00\nIslands Designs\t\t \t DOS\t $20.00\nJets & Props DOS\t $25.00\nJones ... Fast Lane\t\t DOS/MPS\t $25.00\nKGB/CIA World Fact Book\t DOS\t $25.00\nKings Quest 5:\t DOS/MPC $25.00\nLibrary of the Future\t DOS\t $90.00\nLoom\t\t\t DOS\t $35.00\nMPC Wizard\t\t MPC\t $15.00\nMacMillan Kids Dictionary\t MPC $55.00\nMagazine Rack\t\t DOS\t $25.00\nMajestic Places\t\t DOS\t $20.00\nMavis Beacon Teaches Typing MPC\t $35.00\nMixed Up Mother Goose \t DOS/MPC\t $25.00\nMoney,Money,Money, DOS\t $20.00\nMonkey Island\t DOS $35.00\nOak CD Stand\t\t DOS\t $15.00\nOur Solar System\t\t DOS\t $15.00\nPresidents\t\t DOS\t $85.00\nPublish It\t\t\t DOS\t $30.00\nReference Library\t\t DOS\t $35.00\nSecret Weapons/Luftwaffe\t MPC\t $35.00\nShereware Games\t\t DOS\t $35.00\nShereware Overload\t\t DOS\t $15.00\nSher Holmes/Consul Det\t MPC\t $35.00\nSleeping Beauty\t\t DOS\t $20.00\nSrd CD Software Bundle - 4 Titles N/A\t $90.00\nStellar 7\t\t\t DOS/MPC\t $25.00\nStory Time - Interactive DOS\t $25.00\nThe CD ROM Collection\t DOS\t $15.00\nTime Magazine Almanac Current DOS\t $35.00\nTime Table of Hist/Sci/Innovation\tDOS\t\t$35.00\nTons & Gigs\t\t\t\tDOS\t\t$49.00\nToo Many Typefonts\t\t\tDOS\t\t$15.00\nTotal Baseball\t\t\t\tDOS\t\t$30.00\nUS Atlas/w Automap\t\t\tDOS\t\t$35.00\nUS History\t\t\t\tDOS\t\t$35.00\nUS/World Atlas\t\t DOS/MPC\t $30.00\nUS Wars:Civil War\t\t\tDOS\t\t$25.00\nWild Places\t\t\t\tDOS\t\t$25.00\nWing Com/Ultima VI\t\t\tDOS/MPC\t $35.00\nWorld View\t\t\t\tDOS\t\t$25.00 \n\n\n\n@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@\nE-Mail mkbaird@david.wheaton.edu -- mkbaird%david.bitnet@uunet.uu.net -- \nVoice 708-752-8847 - Internet 192.138.89.15 -- mkbaird%david@uunet.uu.net ", "Could someone please give me some info regarding the USR Sportsters that have\nrecently dropped below $200? I was going to buy a used Courier v32bis external\nwithout fax for $200 but now I see the Sportster with Fax is selling below\n$200 brand new! Are these good modems? What warranty do they carry?\n\nAny info very much appreciated.\n\nKevin", "\ncheck prep.ai.mit.edu. It's called fax-3.2.1.tar.Z or something to\nthat effect and is the software for netfax. Be forewarned that it\nrequires (at the moment) a fairly costly $450 fax modem with certain\ncapabilities to use it.\n\t", "Hiyas ALL,\n\nUpon getting Animated Desktop for Windows as a gift from my boyfriend, I \ncouldn't wait to install it. I had gotten an advertisement for it and put \nit aside \nwith my list of 'I Wants.' After installing the software, it didn't load. \nNo part of \nthe software would load even though the install went seemingly well.\n\n\tI called Deltapoint with the problem and after asking me twenty \nmillion different questions about my system.. concluded that I had one of \nthe \nsystems that the software was 'incompatible with'. Of course they're \nwilling to \ngive me my $$$ back.. What a waste of time and energy. The folks on their \nsupport line, although nice, are extremely ignorant regarding the workings \nof \nWindows 3.1. \n\tAfter my experience with the installation of the SB 16, I learned \nsome of the function of windows dll files. Before sending back Desktop \nAnimator, decided to do some fooling around with the different versions of \n\n.dll files I had. I had 2 versions of cpalette.dll one dated 8/92 and > \n100K the \nother dated 1/93 and smaller (the 1/93 smaller version was the one supplied \n\nwith Desktop Animator). I moved the bigger, older version of cpalette.dll \nto a \ndirectory outside my path. (For some reason, I had the older Cpalette.dll \nin my \nWindows directory and the newer cpallette in my windows\\system directory.) \nWhen I did this, the animator's editor loaded.. and so did 2 other of the \napplications in the package.. the main application still didn't load. Does \nanyone have any ideas as to why this would occur or any further suggestions ", "Could someone mail me the archive location of the MSF Program (for\n\tan IBM, right?)?\n\n\tThanks,\n", "Does X11R5 support the graphics accelerator board\nin the Sun 386i????\n\nThanks in advance.", "*.ini \nunder Windows.\nmeny PC`s. \n\nIf you are managing PC's on a Novell network, get the network management\ntools provided by either Sabre Software or Automated Design Systems. \nAmong the many features, you'll find utilities that can help you to\nmanage .INI files stored on users' workstations or home directories. \nThis is commercial software and well worth the money. To date, I have\nnot found ANYTHING available via FTP that could compare. Reply to the\naddress in my .SIG for more info.", "There will always be a zillion lawyers who, if they get paid well\nenough, will sue your brains out. Gosh! Can't anyone send them off to\nanother planet?! \nWell maybe, it would be better to just send Apple, Microsoft and a few\nothers (that way we would get rid of some terrible products as well :)\n\n--", "\n\nNo, VL-bus IDE is no faster than ISA IDE. The IDE interface is\nfundamentally nothing more than an extension of the ISA bus, and if\nyou hook it to VL-bus it'll work as fast as the slower of the two,\nmeaning ISA speed.\n\n\nOn the other hand, I wouldn't expect it to be *slower*...", "It probably won't work with any other LC. The ones I have for the LC II\nare Rev. D. No, it won't work in the IIsi's PDS slot since it's a 68030\nPDS, while the LC has the 68020 PDS. The IIsi and SE/30 share the same\nkind of card.\n\nThat's the 10BaseT ethernet connector.\n", "Hi there,\n\nI'm looking for tools that can make X programming easy. \nI would like to have a tool that will enable to create X motif\nGUI Interactivly. Currently I'm Working on a SGI with forms.\nA package that enables to create GUI with no coding at all \n(but the callbacks). \nAny help will be appreciated.", "specify RamdomPlacement (or RandomPlace ? )\nin your .tvtwmrc. This places the windows not-interactively\nin pseudo - random positions on your screens.\n", "If you paid $19.95 for a CD, you're a fool and you got ripped off.\n", "I have just noticed my FileManager doing something strange recently.\nUsually, the line at the bottom of the FileManager (the status bar, I\nguess) displays the total disk space and the total number of bytes for\nthe current selection. If I select a whole bunch of files, I will get\nan exact byte count.\n\nRecently, I notice it incorrectly displays this count; it's truncating!\nIf I select a file that is, say, 532 bytes, it correctly displays '532 bytes'.\nIf I select select a file that is 23,482 bytes, it displays '23 bytes', \nnot 23 Kbytes, just 23 bytes! If I select 893,352 it will report only\n893 bytes in the selection. If I select over a Meg worth of files, say\n3,356,345 it reports 3 bytes! It's as if it's got a problem with displaying\nmore than 3 characters!\n\nMy system: 486DX/33, 8M memory, Stacker 3.0, DOS 5, Win 3.1. I've run\nthe latest virus scanners (scan102, f-prot) and they didn't report anything.\nCould I have unknowingly altered something that controls the formatting\nof the status bar in the FileManger?\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ Nicholas Masika, masika@bnr.ca\n _/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa\n _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/ (613) 765-4893 / fax:765-4309\n _/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ \n _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ OPC Development Operations", "\n\n >Version 1.3 drivers are due to be release by Cirrus soon.\n >Unfortunately, their not available via FTP, you have to dial\n >up their BBS in the USA. I do this from NZ using a 14.4k modem\n >to cut down on phone bills. It took me around 7 minutes to \n >download the v1.2 driver.\n\n\tCould you please upload to any of the ftp sites (such as\n\tftp.ciaca.indiana.edu) and announce it here? This will benefit\n\tpeople does not have access to their BBS in USA (like me :-))?\n\n\tThanks a lot.", "We have a setup with with 13 polaroid transducers and rangefinders. We\nwould like to fire these three at a time with about 5 ms between\nfirings. The three that are being fired do not fire in the same\ndirection. \n\nTo further explain the situation, assume we are firing sonars A,B,C\n5 ms apart each other. We should normally see an echo on A that\ncorresponds to the distance. However, sonar A detects the INIT line\nof sonar B! The detection is actually through the transducer of sonar A;\nwe can see a very faint 50Khz signal on the transducer, exactly at the\ntime the init line of sonar B is activated. \n\nWe feel that there is some ground coupling that is causing this interference.\nWe came to this conclusion since we are using a separate power supply\nfor sonars B and C. \n\nHas anyone else had any problems with these particular units and\nthis type of experience? Your suggestions for remedies will be greatly\nappreciated.\n\n", "\nHave you tried having your scsi bus balanced?", "# \n# \n# Is there an Xt call to give me my application context?\n# I am fixing up an X/Motif program, and am trying to use XtAppAddTimeOut,\n# whose first argument is the app_context. What call can I use\n# to give me this value?\n# \n\nUse XtDisplayToApplicationContext() to retreive the application context.\n\nPatrick L. Mahan\n\n--- TGV Window Washer ------------------------------- Mahan@TGV.COM ---------\n\nWaking a person unnecessarily should not be considered - Lazarus Long\na capital crime. For a first offense, that is From the Notebooks of\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t Lazarus Long\nPatrick L. Mahan\n\n--- TGV Window Washer ------------------------------- Mahan@TGV.COM ---------", "I am looking for a CDROM audio cable to connect my Toshiba 3401B (L/R audio) to\nthe Pro Audio Spectrum 16 sound card. Thanks in advance for any pointers...", "Does anyone know the difference between MOOLIT and OLIT? Does Sun\nsupport MOOLIT? Is MOOLIT available on Sparcstations?\n\nI have recntly downloaded a copy of wkshTree written by Eric Wallengren\nof Univel. There are many widgets that are apparently available only\nto MOOLIT but not OLIT.\n\nIs there a wkshTree program available under OLIT?", "\tI had asked everyone about problems installing a 4 meg\nsimm and an 8 meg simm in my Centris 610, but the folks at the\nlocal Apple store called the folks in Cupertino and found that\nyou can't have simms of different speeds in one machine, even\nif they are both fast enough - ie - My 80 ns 8 meg and 60ns 4\nmeg simms were incompatibable... Just thought people might\nwant to know.....\n\t\t\t\t\tJason.\n", "Is there a tn3270 program which support xterm? I don't like x3270 at all. You\ncan't copy with other windows. Thanks.\n", ": >\n: >I just wanted to let you know that there are a few honest and good people out\n: >there (even outside of Iowa). I'm sorry if anyone thinks that I am wasting\n: >space, but I thought you might want some relief from the \"So-and-so is a thief\"\n: >posts. Not that I think we shouldn't hear about the bad deals, but it would be\n: >nice to hear some good news once in a while.\n: \n: This was nice of Kevin to post this. But just so no one is misled, the\n: VAST MAJORITY of usenetters are \"honest and good people.\" In fact, in\n: the latest study, 99.7% of all net.deals went off smoothly without a\n: hitch. It's just that the few bad ones are what get all the publicity.\n\n Agreed. I have yet to run into a problem in deals over the net\n and I have bought things from CDs (plenty!) to a full computer.\n The only small problem that I have had was with UPS rather than\n the seller. Besides, complaints are always what get the\n publicity....when something goes wrong, people complain. Rarely\n have I seen posts stating how well a deal went through. I guess\n Kevin is practically a first!", "\n\n\n\nCheck into the vopl and vogle libraries. I beleive that I still have\nthem available on ftp.c-mols.siu.edu but I'm not sure. I haven't seen\nany new announcements for the software but I'm sure it's still around.\n\nI have used it to do real-time data display and analysis as well as\njust for producing graphs after the fact. It works well and supports\nnumerous graphics output formats (including X.) I tried it and liked\nit. YOu may as well.\n", "Hello, \nI have a Hayes 9600 moden with no cables or manuals. The\nmodem requires a source of 14V AC, but I do not know how\nto connect the power source to the 3 pin connector. I know\nthat the top pin is the ground, so I would guess that the other\ntwo are the AC pins, right? If you have any hints, please\nE-Mail me, I really need help... Thanks!!! Duc N.\n", "Brand new, still shrink wraped Stealth 24 for sale $150 plus shipping \nand COD. \nSpecifications:\nBased on S3 801/805 32bit coporcessor, 1024x768x256 72Hz Ni, 800x600x64K NI,\n640x480x16million NI, system requires 386 or 486 based ISA or VESA VL-BUS,\nwith fast TurboWindows drivers for 3.1 and other drivers for other popular\nsoftwares like WP, Microsoft Word,Lotus,AutoCad.", "Does anyone know if there are any problems (or if it's possible)\nadding a third hard drive(scsi) to a dos pc.\n\nI currently have a 386 pc with Future Domain scsi board and 2\nMaxtor scsi drives installed. They work great, I haven't had\nany problems!\n\nWell, now I want more disk space and went out and got another\n(larger) scsi hard disk thinking all I had to do was add it\nto the chain(50pin ribbon that has 3 connectors) and run\nthe fdisk program to format/initialize the disk.\n\nThat didn't happen. When the pc boots, the scsi prom shoots\nback the devices that are attached to the board[target\n0/target1/target2]. All three disks are seen.\n\nWhen I run the dos fdisk program to format the disk, I choose to\nselect another disk(option 5(dos6)) and voila, it's not there.\nThe first two disks show up no problem, but the third disk is\nno-where to be found....\n\n\n\nARGH!\n\nIdeas anyone?????\n\nThanks in advance!\n\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\nMike \"Migkiller\" Figueroa |\nSun Microsystems Computer Corporation |\nE-mail: maf@Corp.Sun.COM \t|\nWork: (415) 336-2798 (n)\n X-----====(...)====-----X\n X +++ X\n ~\n \t\t\t Sierra Hotel, and check six\n\t\t\t \t\t F16-FALCON", "\nA 68070 is just a 68010 with a built in MMU. I don't even think that Moto.\nmanufactures them.\n\n - Ian Romanick\n Dancing Fool of Epsilon", "\n\nUtah raster toolkit using getx11. Convert your sun raster files (presumably) to \nppm with the pbm+ toolkit then convert ppm to utah rle format with ppmtorle which\nis provided in the toolkit.\n\nI seem to remember that Xloadimage can do 24 bit servers too.\n\nPossibly xwud the x window un-dump program can display 24 bit images; certainly\nxwd can grab them.\n\n--\nChris Lilley\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTechnical Author, ITTI Computer Graphics and Visualisation Training Project\nComputer Graphics Unit, Manchester Computing Centre, Oxford Road, \nManchester, UK. M13 9PL Internet: C.C.Lilley@mcc.ac.uk \nVoice: +44 (0)61 275 6045 Fax: +44 (0)61 275 6040 Janet: C.C.Lilley@uk.ac.mcc", "\nIs there a precompiled version of hp2xx for DOS out there - prefereably\nfor 386/486?\n", "This may be an FAQ (if so, please direct me to the known answer) but I\n am getting frustrated and looking for help.\n\n I am running Win 3.1 with NDW 2.2 on a 486sx with 8 meg of memory and a\n 6 meg perm swap file and am getting exceedingly frustrated that my\n applications are not giving back system resources when I close them.\n\n When I load windows I start with about 83% resources available but many\n of the application programs I run regularly (WPWIN 5.2, VB 2.0, WINQVT\n 2.8, Lotus Organizer, etc.) seem to not return all their resources when\n I exit them. After a day or two of work I often find myself down under\n 50% of available resources even when I have no applications other than\n my shell running.\n\n I am aware this is a known problem; what I am looking for are some\n suggestions of what I might do to mitigate it. \n\n 1. What software is the culprit? Win 3.1, NDW, my applications? Are\n some modes of Win 3.1 (standard, real, enhanced) better than others at\n plugging this leak?\n\n 2. Are their system.ini switches i can set to help plug this leak?\n\n 3. Do people know of patches or third party software that help with\n this? Seems like increasing or better managing system resources is a\n great market for a third party memory company like QEMM.\n\n 4. If I run Progman instead of NDW will the leak subside? (I was\n hoping that NDW 2.2 would have plugged this, but it seems no different\n than 2.0 in how it deals with memory and resources.)\n\n 5. When I am writing VB code are there things I can do to make it less\n likely my code will eat resources?\n\n 6. Any other suggestions that I don't know enough to ask for\n specifically?\n\n Thanks for your help. As this is a common problem and I have seen only\n a little discussion of it on the net there are probably others who\n would like to read answers so please publish here rather than sending\n me email.", "My next project is to come up with an IF/detector module for fast -- 112\nto 250 kB/sec -- packet radio use. No fancy modulation scheme, just\nwide FSK for use at 902 or 1296 MHz.\n\nI'm a bit familiar with the Motorola 3362 chip, but I wonder if there\nare newer designs that might work at higher input frequencies.\n\nMy goal is to come up with an inexpensive design for a receiver \"back\nend\" with IF input on one end and an FSK demondulator on the other. I'm\nparticularly interested in ways to use a higher IF than 10.7 -- do any\ncurrent chips work up to, say 150MHz with internal downconversion so a\nnormal IF filter can be used?\n\nAny suggestions?\n\nJohn\n", "\nSorry, Bryan, this is not quite correct. Remember the VGALIB package that comes\nwith Linux/SLS? It will switch to VGA 320x200x256 mode *without* Xwindows.\nSo at least it is *possible* to write a GIF viewer under Linux. However I don't\nthink that there exists a similar SVGA package, and viewing GIFs in 320x200 is\nnot very nice.\n\nBest Regards,\n\nArno\n\n-- \n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nArno Schaefer\t\t\t\tENSIMAG, 2e Annee\nEmail: schaefer@silene.imag.fr\nTel.: (33) 76 51 79 95\t\t\t:-)", "\nI don't think the two main free X systems ( XS3 and XFree86 ) are part\nof the FSF as such.\n\n\nDoes anyone know of an e-mail address for Diamond to which Penio could\nforward his purchase information?\n\n\nGuy", "\n I've talked with Mark and he faxed some literature, though it wasn't very helpful-\n just a list of routine names: _BSplineSurface, _DrawString3D... 241 names.\n There was a Product Info sheet that explained some of the package capabilities.\n I also found a review in April/May '92 MacTutor.", ": \n: >In the official paper I got from Apple about the new docking station, Apple\n: >themselves called it the \"DuoDock Plus\".\n: \n: What paper is that? It's been on the price list here at Dartmouth\n: since they released it and it has never been called the \"DuoDock Plus.\" \n\nIt was a paper from Apple Sweden that announced some new products (the new\ndocking station was only one of them), and the paper arrived before it showed\nup on the price list. I don't know if it's still called the \"DuoDock Plus\"\nin the price list, it could be a mistake by someone at Apple Sweden.\n\n/Mats", "***** FORSALE *****\n\nIntel i486DX-33 CPU\n\nPrice: $300\n\nMust sell immediately.\n\nAndie Wei-Ku Lin", "Posted for a friend...\n\nAll in brand new condition ( less than 2 years old)\n\nFull size bed - mattress, box spring, frame $135\n\nWhite night table - 2 drawer (15x21) $60\n\nWhite dresser - 6 drawer plus mirror (54x18) x 32\" HEIGHT $170\n\nWhite pantry - $35\n\nEntertainment center - natural wood color $55\n\nCoffee table - glass top and base (48x22) $135\n\nTwo white floor lamps - $15 each\n\nOne foldable table 36x36 $8\n\nFour foldable chairs $5 each", "Has anybody out there used/tested these new Fluke Scopemeters?\nHow do they compare to a low-end Tectronix oscilloscope? Are\nthere any big drawbacks about these handheld scopes when\ncompared to the benchtop scopes of the same price range\n($1000-$2000)?\n\nAny info on the Fluke Scopemeters would be greatly appreciated.\n\nThanks,", "I read sometime in the last couple of weeks, an article which desribed how to play PC sound\nthrough a soundblaster. I didn't save the article and all old articles have been purged from\nour system here. \n\nWould whomever posted the article detailing where to connect the wires please re-post?\n\nSpecifically, I need to know where to connect wires from the PC speaker to the SB card.", "Yesterday, a friend of mine got a new driver for his card that more\nthan doubled the speed... Naturally, besides being a tad jealous (same \nmachine -- different cards), it got me thinking... What if I am using a slow\ndriver? Wouldn't that be _horrible_ ? :) So netlanders, I need samples of\nyour collective experience (sic) -- Do you proud owners of a Trident 8900C\nvideo card w/ 1MB VRAM have tried out more than one driver fro MS Win 3.1\nwhich? which is the fastest? Not to be selfish, and to give you a motive\nfor responding, I promise I am going to collect all the answers, and the\nactual drivers (provided u give me a site to get it from or uuencode&mail)\nget the WinMarks using PC Magazine`s WinBENCH and... post the results here...\nI am interested in SVGA drivers only (plain VGA users should run the Win\ndriver, or this is what I 've heard -- dont flame me!) Particularly\n800x600x16 and/or 800x600x256 (that should cover the majority of SVGA users)\nWell, what are you waiting for? hit that r or f or whatever...\nAll input welcome -- so are money and Sun SPARCstations...\nThanx in advance...\n\n", "\n [part of posting removed]\n\n * the Sony CPD-1304 has better video circuitry than either of the\n other two monitors. It can display Apple 640x480, VGA 640x480, VGA\n 800x600 (though this has 56 Hz flicker), and Apple 832x624 (75 Hz\n refresh: no flicker at all). It might be able to display Apple's\n 1024x768, but I'm not sure about this, and the pixels would be real\n small anyway so it might not be that useful.\n\n Note that with either Sony monitor, you will need the proper adapter,\n which both connects the video signals properly, but also informs the\n Macintosh video hardware of which display mode to use.\n\n [part of posting removed]\n\n -- \n Fred Martin | fredm@media.mit.edu | (617) 253-7143 | 20 Ames St. Rm. E15-301\n Epistemology and Learning Group, MIT Media Lab | Cambridge, MA 02139 USA\n\nI'm assuming that the cabling tells the Mac, at startup, what kind of\nmonitor is connected. Now I think I've seen ads in popular Mac\nmagazines for products (I'm not sure if it's just a monitor, just a\nvideo card, or a package of both) that allow you to change resolutions\non the fly (w/o restarting the Mac).\n\nIf you were to buy a 1304, would it be possible to switch back and\nforth between Apple 640x480 and Apple 832x624 without restarting the\nMac? Is this strictly a hardware startup function, or can software\nintervene, or does the Mac hardware occasionally probe the cable\nsetting and switch automatically?\n\nThanks,", "Let me try sending this message again, I botched up the margins the\nfirst time; *sorry* 'bout that :)\n\nDoes anyone out there know of any products using Motorola's Neuron(r)\nchips MC143150 or MC143120. If so, what are they and are they utilizing\nStandard Network Variable Types (SNVT)?\n________________________________________________________________________", "\nOkay, I've received a whole lot of requests for the movie, so for\nsimplicity's sake I can't mail out any more than I've already received (as\nof 16:30 EDT, Tuesday). Maybe it'll pop up on a site sooner or later.", "What's the best way to archive GIF's? I zip them and they only shrink 1%. I\nhave most compression programs except stacker which I heard was good for GIF's.\n\n\nThanx\n-Brando", "I have a Turbo Grafx 16 game system with the add on CD-ROM system forsale. I want to sell the Turbo grafx, Turbo CD, Turbo pad, and Y's Book I and II (CD) for $100. I'll split the S&H charges. Please reply by e-mail to jth@bach.udel.edu.", "\nIt's my understanding that the next release of UIM/X, due out\nlast February :-) has full support for C++.\n\nI use XDesigner which does not have the interpreter or UI meta languages\nof these other tools but does fully support C++ code generation,\nreusable templates via C++ classes which are generated, a variety of\nother handy features for using C++ and layout functions in different\nways, and generates Motif 1.2 code (including drag 'n drop, \ninternationalization, etc.). Fits in quite nicely with Doug Young's\nparadigm for C++/Motif.\n\nAvailable in the US from VI Corp, in Europe from Imperial Software,\nLondon (see FAQ for details).", "From article <1993Apr20.195853.16179@samba.oit.unc.edu>, by dil.admin@mhs.unc.edu (Dave Laudicina):\nYou're using drivers version 2.02 or earlier. The latest is 2.03, available\nfrom their BBS or by snailmail. It at least fixes the WfW problem.\n\nThe reason I wanted to reply in public instead of private mail is because\nof following: I talked to their tech support a few days ago and was told\nthat I can expect a new version near the end of the month. Which should be\nabout now...\n\nHowever, I have a problem when switching back from a DOS session in standard\nmode. Apparently they don't know of this problem and seem to be surprised\nwhy anybody would want to use standard mode at all.\n\n\nIt's a great card for the price, at least when I bought it. Now there may be\nbetter alternatives.\n", "I'm in the market for a laser printer. Used printers are fine, non-apple\nprinters are fine, but whatever printer I get must fit the following:\n\nRequired features:\n\n- PostScript\n\n- 300 dpi\n\n- emough memory to download fonts\n\n- The cheaper, the better. I'd prefer under $1000.\n\n\nNice things:\n\n- anything over 4 pages per minute\n\n- scsi output for a font disk\n\n- smallish footprint\n\n\n\nDon't Care About:\n\n- PostScript Level II\n\n- networking (its just for me, and always will be)\n\n- color\n\n\nI know about Freedom of Press, but I've also heard that its painfully slow.\nI can tolerate about 4 ppm, but anything slower than that and I'm not going\nto consider the price savings worth it. I'd be curious to hear people's\nexperience with it, tho. \n\nI also infinitely prefer laser over ink; I used to use HP deskjets in\nmy last job and wasn't impressed with the quality. I'm a laser bigot\nand the first to admit it. :)\n\n\nI'll be using the printer to layout pages of a book I'm writing. The\npage will include multiple fonts, PS graphics, scanned line art and\nmaybe greyscale pictures (not sure yet). The quality doesn't need to\nbe spectacular, but it needs to be clear and readable.\n\n\nPrinters I've been looking at:\n\n\n- used LaserWriters: The plus, the NT, the NTR. Its my understanding that\n only the NTR has a SCSI out for a disk. True?\n\n- Personal LaserWriter (LS and NTR). I have access to the Apple Employee\n discount (I work for one of Apple's spinoffs), so I can get these reasonably\n cheaply. I've heard bad things about the LS; comments? I'm leaning\n towards the Personal NTR, cause it has a nice small footprint.\n\n- LaserWriter Select 300. I hear it doesn't have PostScript, but I haven't\n seen anything for sure. I heard mumbles once about a \"postscript upgrade.\"\n ??\n\n- Used HP LaserJets. I've worked with the II and IIP on another platform, and\n they were *painfully* slow. Are they that bad on the mac?\n\n- I've seen ads for an Epson PS laserprinter that is running quite cheap.\n Any comments on this printer? I hate the styling (too many ouput trays),\n but if its a decent printer I'll consider it.\n\n\nThanks for any comments...\n\n\n", "Greetings netters,\n\tI have a Seagate 3144 130MB IDE drive forsale. I bought it yesterday\nand have been able to come across a 215MB that I am going to buy, but I \nneed to sell this one. I guarantee that it will work. There is still a\ntransferable warranty I believe. It was only used as a boot drive, not a\nserver (source) drive. I just want my money back out of it...$180. Thanks\na lot and offers appreciated. Dave 317-495-5978 kari@sage.cc.purdue.edu\n", "it doesnt matter what window mgr you running under, you can use the X\nroutine:\n\tXIconfiyWindow(display, w, screen_number)\n\t\tDisplay *display;\n\t\tWindow w;\n\t\tint screen_number;\n\nas in\n\n\tXiconifyWindow( XtDisplay(w), XtWindow(w), 0);\n\ndoes that perform what you want??\n\n\n\n Newsgroups: comp.windows.x\n Path: shearson.com!uupsi!psinntp!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!teal.csn.org!doomer\n From: doomer@teal.csn.org (John Dumais)\n Sender: news@csn.org (news)\n Nntp-Posting-Host: teal.csn.org\n Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.\n X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4\n Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1993 05:35:22 GMT\n Lines: 8\n\n I've been trying to figure a way to programmatically iconize \n an application running under a Motif window manager. I have tried\n several approaches includeing sending events to the application's\n border window, but to no avail? Anyone done this before?\n\n Thanks,\n\n doomer '85\n--", "\nI just put replaced the motherboard in a system and had similar questions.\nMy 2 cents worth:\n\nThe speaker connector should have two wires going to the speaker. \nA speaker being a coil, it's bidirectional and makes no difference\nwhich way you attach.\n\nTurbo switch. There are three wires to control how you want turbo\nto become active- with the switch pushed in or the switch out. I think\nthe middle wire is common. Use an ohm meter to figure out which wire\nconnects with the common wire when the switch is pushed in, and which two\nwires are connected when the switch is out. Place the appropriate\ntwo wires on the turbo berg connector of the motherboard.\n\nLED's: (Turbo and HD) LED's are uni directional. Depending which\nway the wires are attached the LED will not light. On my AMI motherboard,\nif the turbo switch wires are not attached to the berg connector on the\nboard, the board will power up in default in Turbo mode. If your motherboard\nis like that... just attace the LED wires to the board. If the LED doesn't\nlight, power off, reverse the connectors and try again. It should work.\n\nIf it does, then attach the turbo switch to the board.\n\nHope this helps.", "A friend of mine is in the market for a 486 system \n\n\tShould have: 8 M of RAM\n\t\t 170+ M HD\n\t\t SVGA Monitor and Card \n\t\t 5 1/4 & 3 1/2 FD\"s\n\t\t 200+W PS\n\nIf you have one for sale then email me and I will forward to him.\n\nThanks,", " ........... more deleted\n\n\nYou need to start the X-server with -indirect its_name.\n\nIf you start it with -indirect localhost, it use the loopback adress as\nit's adress. So when it try to contact another host, this one try to answer\non its loopback adress. Not good.\n\nRemember that every machine has the adress 127.0.0.1 on the loopback network.\n", "Hi Everyone--\n\n It's spend-the-money-before-it-goes-away time here at U.Florida\nand we need to find some PC-based software that will do contour\nplotting with irregular boundaries,i.e., a 2-D profile of a soil\n system with a pond superimposed\n /----------------- on it. We've given SURFER a\n POND / | trial run but it interpolates\n / | contours out into the pond and/or\n----------/ | creates artifacts at the borders.\na response, I'll post a summary. Thanks -- (and now back to lurking).", "I am looking for the latest drivers for the Actix graphics accelerator card. \nThe driver I am currently using is version 1.21 and doesn't support more \nthan 256 colors in 1024x768 mode even you have 2MB memory. \n\nThe BBS support for Actix is unbelievable! They are still using 2400bps \nmodem! It will take you hours to download the drivers, it hurts when you\nare calling long distance. Is there any ftp site that has a collection\nof video drivers for windows?\n\nBTW, anyone using this card, and how do you like it so far?\n\nThanks.\n\n\n-- \n\n\nDaniel Y.H. Wong\t\t\t\t\tUofT:(416)978-1659\nwongda@picton.eecg.toronto.edu\t\t\t\tElectrical Engineering", "I am interested to know if there is know procedure/document to\nconfigure an IBM Musci Feature (IMF) card to work as the sound device\nwith MS-Windows 3.1. I believe the IMF uses the same FM synth chip as\nthe Soun Blaster, but didn't know what driver to use or how to\nconfigure the MIDI-mapper.\n\nAny help, past success, suggestions?\n\nThanks,\n\nDon.", "Hello,\n\nI am interested to hear from people working in the field of visual\nsimulation, ie driving simulation, flight simulation etc.\nWould be very pleased to see, what is going on in the field of research\nand industrial development.\n\nFor those of you interested as well: There is a workshop (preferedly \nheld in German), situated in Wuppertal, November 18/19 1993, specially\nrelated to the above topic.\nThe title:\n\n\"Sichtsysteme - Visualisierung in der Simulationstechnik\"\n\nComplete details are available. Please contact me.", "Hi All,\n I'm asking for info on behalf of a friend. Is there, what would\nbe, the best way to copy the output of a monitor on to video \ntape? Any ideas? Please prescribe additional hardware and/or \nsoftware? (I'm just assuming an Intel/Windows environment).\nThanks in advance. --Jerry", "Hi,\n\nCan somebody tell me how much is Canon BJ200? And from where can I buy it for\nthe cheapest price? Thanks in advance..", "Hi,\n I need to know if there is a 256 color graphics mode that allows multiple\npages. I want something like mode 0x10 (640x350x16 2 pages). I have been\nexperimenting with graphics by calling the BIOS with borland turbo c. I\nfeel like I am flying blind in this area, and could use all the help that\nyou can give.\n\n Thanks,\n\tIvan......\n\n", "\n\n\nWhy are you fooling around with analog for this job? A single chip\nmicro and a crystal will do the job reliably and easily. An 8748 only\ncosts about $5. That and a $1 crystal and you're in business. Embed\nthe whole thing in a foam insulated blanket, power it from a solar cell,\nuse the excess power to heat the assembly during the day and rely\non the insulation to hold the heat during darkness. If you don't want\nto try thermal management, contact someone like ICL and have them cut\nyou a special low temperature crystal. It'll cost at most $20.\n\nIf you use a single chip micro, you're looking at a parts count of \nmaybe 7. A processor, a crystal, two caps on the crystal, a power FET\nto fire the solenoid a flyback diode and a battery. This is fewer parts than \nyou can build an analog timer for and is infinitely more reliable. Add\na power zener diode (for heat) and a solar cell and the parts count\nscreams up to 9.\n\nPD assemblers are available for all the common single chip micros. This\napplication is so trivial you could even look up the op codes in the \nprogrammer's guide and create the binary with a hex editor.\n\nJohn", "I have the following for sale:\n\nTI 855 Printer in excellect working condition\n $100 + postage\n\nGame = The Lost Files of Sherlock Holmes \n Original box and contents used 1 time and\n unregistered $30 + postage\n\nIf iterested EMAIL me at:\n\nEMAIL = caldwell@epcot.spdc.ti.com", "\n(From the Windows Resource Toolkit (for Win4Workgroups)), add an entry to\nyour \"system.ini\" file under the [NonWindowsApp] section:\n\n CommandEnvSize=NNNN\n\n\"This sets the COMMAND.COM env size, where NNNN must either be 0 or\nbetween 160 and 32768. A value of 0 disables the setting. If this\nvalue is too small or too big, it is rounded up to 160 or down to 32768.\nIf the value is less than the current size of the actual environment,\nthis setting is disabled, as if it were 0. If you specify the\nenvironment size in a PIF file for COMMAND.COM, the PIF setting\noverrides this setting. The default is 0 with MSDOS versions earlier\nthan 3.2. Otherwise, the default value is the /e: option in the\nSHELL= command in CONFIG.SYS. To set this value, you must edit your\nSYSTEM.INI [and reboot].\"\n\n\nI have used this entry, as well as relied on the default /e: from\nthe CONFIG.SYS shell= line, and both give larger environments. If\nyou don't use one of these, then the environment passed by windows\nto each new DOS box is just a little bit bigger than the environment\n_variables_ present when windows was started. (No matter how big\nthe DOS env was, when windows starts, it truncates all unused space\nexcept for a few bytes.) This should allow your batch file to run,\nbut your mileage may vary.\n", "\n First of all (this is NOT a snide response), if you're confused about\nthis issue, you will stumble over a lot of other things as well. I suggest\nthat the weakness is your reference material. Get \"An Introduction to Ray\nTracing\" by Andrew Glassner for very good coverage of the raytracing\nalgorithm. You could also refer to the 2nd edition of Foley & Van Dam.\n\n On to the question. The simple answer is that you just keep adding up\nall the contributions and then clamping at the maximum intensity. For\nexample, if your intensity values range from 0.0 to 1.0, then keep adding up\nand clamp the resultant values to 1.0 (you might have to clamp the lower\nbound to 0.0 if you have dark bulbs, but that's another issue =^). So, you\nget some illumination equation like this:\n\n I = Lambient + Ldiffuse(light[n]) + Lreflected + Ltransparent\n\n The contribution due to reflection is just summed with the light\nintensity, as is the light due to transparency. Now, a slightly less\nhand-waving illumination equation is this:\n\n I = KaLa + KdLd(light[n]) + KrLr + KtLt\n\n That is, each component of the illumination equation is governed by the\nmaterial constants Ka, Kd, Kr and Kt. So the maximum you can get from\ntransparency for a given object, for example, might be [0.4, 0.1, 0.5] for a\npurple-colored glass object.\n\n Hopefully this answers your question. I'll forward my \"illumination\nequation sermon\" to you also.", "[stuff deleted]\n\nI recently bought a Leading Edge 80386DX-33 and everything\nworks fine. Leading Edge seems to be a decent brand and what-not. I would\ntend to say that it is a decent deal. The only things you might want to be\nwary about is that my L.E. computer has a back-plane mounted motherboard.\nIe: The motherboard itself is a card that can be plugged in to a backplane.\nSome people don't like these configurations. The second thing is that\nwhoever set up my computer at the factory didn't really know what they were\ndoing. The installed windows video driver didn't even take advantage of the\nSVGA card/Monitor. Look forward to configuring the system optimally\nyourself.\n", "\nDOS 5.0/6.0 cannot read the NTFS file system, although the NTFS file system\ncan read the FAT file system of DOS. I have WindowsNT on a seperate\npartition on my machine at home, and I can read my DOS disks from Windows NT,\nbut not vice-versa.\n\nAs far as the robustness of the file system, it seems to be very fast, and\nI have yet to have a single problem with it. That doesn't prove it's better\nthan the FAT system though. Read the book 'Inside Windows NT,' it will give\nyou all the info you're looking for.\n\n\t\tScott\n\n\n-- ", "Is there any one know:\n\nWhat is the FTP tool for Windows and where to get the tool ?\n\nThanks for any help !!", "I am looking for a company that can make custom keys. For instance we need\na key that says HELP, MAIN MENU, etc which we are going to use instead of\nF1,F2, F3 etc... Can anyone point me to a company that does this. Also \ndo you have to have a special keyboard, or can I just pop off the old keys\nand pop in the new ones...", "\nHow are you attempting to do that?\n\nAre you using the DIS_PKT9 program? This provides a packet driver on\ntop of the NDIS driver.\n", "\nI just got Mathcad 4.0, and the manual is not clear on the matter. On page 8:\n\n\t:\n\t:\n\n* At least 4 megabytes of memory. All memory about 640K should be configured\n as XMS.\n\n\t:\n\t:\n* At least 8 megabytes of virtual memory....\n\nCommon sense suggests that you should be able to run it (4+8=12 < 16) but the\nnew Mathcad is kinda kooky, and thus is not subject to the laws of common\nsense...\n\nDan\n", "Hi there,\n\nis there anybody who know a polygon_reduction algorithm for\nmarching cube surfaces. e.g. the algirithm of Schroeder,\nSiggraph'92.\n\nFor any hints, hugs and kisses.\n\n- Erwin", "Please....Apples to Apples. Nt is a beta, and as such cannot be accepted as a\ncompetitor to Win3.1-it's not on the market. Same for OS/2 2.1, for a couple or\nweeks......\nBTW, cute sig. ", "Unless otherwise noted, I am mainly interested in USED items.\nIf you have (any of) the following for sale, please contact me:\n EMail mbeck@vtssi.vt.edu\n Phone (703)552-4381\n USMail Michael Beck\n 1200 Progress Street #5500E\n Blacksburg, Virginia 24060\n \nPlease give as much info as possible (brand, age, condition, etc)\n~~~~~~~~~~WANTED as of 12AM, 4/16/93~~~~~~~~~~\n \nCOMPUTER EQUIP:\n \n1 CHEAP tape drive - pretty much any kind (Used)\n \n1 Memory for PS/2 Model 50Z (New or Used)\n \n1 Macintosh computer\n \n1 486 66mhz chip (New or Used)\n \n1 COLORADO tape drive, 250 megabyte, preferr. w/ 5 tapes (Used)\n \n1 101 key-AT keyboard\n \n1 High Density (1.2 mb) 5 1/4 disk drive\n \n1 Printer - OMS410 or HP LASER or HP DESKJET series\n \n1 Printer - 24 pin or DESKJET\n \n1 High Density (1.2 mb) 5 1/4 disk drive EXTERNAL\n \n1 Adaptec 1542 SCSI 16-bit HD/FD controller (Used)\n \n1 Piggy back memory expansion for INTEL INBOARD 386 \n \n1 130 MB IDE Hard Drive\n \n2 17\" monitor, 1280 resolution, .28 dot pitch or better, digital\n \n \nNON-COMPUTER EQUIP:\n \n1 drum set \n \nmult. amps for a band\n \n1 TV - 27\" or bigger, stereo\n \n1 VCR - 4 Heads, stereo\n \n1 Receiver - 100 Watts or more w/ Dolby Prologic Surround Sound\n capability\n \n1 Bed - Full or Queen sized - LOCAL OFFERS only, please", "If you get the Centris 650 with CD configuration, you are getting a Mac with\na 68RC040 processor that has built-in math coprocessor support. My \nunderstanding is that the \"optional fpu\" refers to your option of purchasing\nthe Centris 650 4/80 without FPU OR one of the other configurations WITH FPU.\n\nApple does not offer an upgrade from the non-FPU system to become an FPU\nsystem. And, it is unclear whether the '040 processor on the non-FPU system\n(a 68LC040) can be replaced with a 68RC040 supplied by another vendor.\nApple did send a memo out at one point sating that the Centris 610, which ONLY\ncomes with a non-FPU 68LC040 processor CANNOT be upgraded to support an FPU -\nthe pin configurations of the two chips apparently do not match so you cannot\nswap one for another (again, according to Apple's memo).\n\nHope that helps.", "\n\nI have (had) several problems with the card.\n- Applications crashed when moving the mouse (VGA mode). Fixed by removing\n the line STACKS=0,0 from config.sys. The default value STACKS=9,256\n does just fine.\n- Random white pixels all over the screen when moving the mouse, in a\n 256 color graphical mode (the hardware cursor modes). Fixed by turning\n off the hardware scroll (\"24xmode scrolloff\") before entering the graphics\n mode. This also fixed the problem of the windowed DOS boxes under windows.\n With the hardware scroll enabled, applications write garbage outside the\n window.\n- The screensavers do not remove the cursor in 256 color modes (hardware\n cursor). I don't know if this is a windows problem or a driver problem.\n Clearly there should be two types of cursor removing functions: a remove-\n for-draw, which can be ignored for hardware cursors and a remove-\n unconditionally. Do other cards with hardware cursors have the same problem?\n- The VESA driver does not support the 640x480x16M TrueColor mode. (Universal\n VESA drivers do not run at all).\n", "******************F O R S A L E C H E A P*********************\nMacintosh-plus\n+++++++++++++++\n*includes:\n2 - 3.5\" drives( 1 external)\nsoftware: Word, Excel, Pascal, Intro package(Hypercard, Tour , etc)\n\nLeaving school in May, must sell!!!!!!\nA steal at $450\n\nplease reply e-mail", "IF YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE CAERE TYPIST PLUS GRAPHICS\n\tHAND SCANNER, PLEASE READ ON AND SAVE MY LIFE.........\n\nMy problem is that my Caere Typist Plus Graphics Hand Scanner will not\nconnect to my PowerBook 160.\n\nThe cable from the scanner will not fit the SCSI port of the computer. \n\nI managed to gaet a cabled assembled that adapted the cord to the\ncomputer. However, this placed the computer into SCSI mode, that is it\nacted as an external hard disk whenever i switched the computer on.\n\nI've asked an engineer in London to assemble a new Cable for me. But\nhe's taken 14 weeks and has yet to find the solution, out of sheer\nlaziness. And I know that a cable exists to solve the problem.\n\nIf you know the solution. Please let me know what cable I need and how I\ncan get hold of one. \n\nMy E-Mail address is :\n\n\t\t\tzia@uk.ac.ed.castle\t\t\n\nI will be truely grateful for all your help.\n\nThanking you in advance,", "\n\nTis' only a gleam in my eye at this point. I have yet to chose a tracking \nmethod. The initial requirement was to design a system to locate a dancer\nin one of eight zones across the stage. I did some experiments with \npyroelectric detectors and found them difficult to align to get a definite\nzone transition. And dancers stand still alot, so their IR signature goes\naway. The good thing about pryoelectrics is that their signal is proportional \nto the size of the warm body (or body part), and the velocity of said body.\nThis could be useful for detecting the intensity of a dance gesture.\n\nDancers also really hate to wear little boxes and batteries strapped on their \nbodies, but they really need to be emitting some kind of signal to be tracked.", "Hi!\n\nWe have an old Montage FR-1 35mm film recorder. When connected to a PC with\nits processor card it can directly take HPGL, Targa and Lasergraphics Language\nfiles. 24 bit Targa is quite OK for raster images, but conversion from \nwhatever one happens to have can be quite slow. This Lasergraphics Language\nseems to be (got the source file for one test image) a vector-based language\nthat can handle one million colors. It does some polygons too, and perhaps\nsomething else ?\n\nThe question is, where can I find some information about this language ?\nA FTP site, a book, a company address,.... ?\n\n(OK, it would be nice to have a Windows driver for it, but I'm not THAT\noptimistic...)\n\nThanks in advance for any help!\n\n\tjussi\n\n", "Forsale:\n SONY MHC-3600 HI-FI Bookshelf stereo system\n -9 months old\n -CD player\n -2 tape decks\n -Digital graphic equilizer\n -Tuner\n -4 speakers 60watts/channel\n -TOP OF THE LINE SONY BOOKSHELF SYSTEM\n\n Includes amazing remote that actually splits into two! Everything\n can be done from the remote (remote has digital display!).\n Has the highest quality sound-amazing bass!\n Not one scratch on system. VERY WELL TAKEN CARE OF.\n\n Originally purchased for $1299 + tax.\n I need cash, and I am looking to get around $750 for it.\n Since I really need the money, I will sell it to the person who gives me\n the highest offer, and I WILL ACCEPT THE BEST OFFER if not $750.\n Buyer pays insured shipping.\n\n Reply soon if intereseted.", "My 610 is working like a charm.. In fact, if 610's are flaky, I would consider it a great computer even if I had to return a couple to Apple to get a good one.\n", "Well, I was told that my last message came through without anything\nin it, so I'll try again.\n\nI have a Leading Edge 386SX 16 with a flaky motherboard and a friend\ngame me one to replace it, but he didn't have any docs for the \nmother board. It's a CHEERTRON board with Award bios and has a \nsticker on it that says VI 1 T1 3 T2 3 on it. I can tell what\nmost of the switches on the blue blocks mean. except FDC and\nSH, but I have no idea about all the jumpers. I've replaced hard\ndrives and modems and installed math co-processes, but this is a\nbit out of my league and without the docs, I'm really lost.\n\nIf anyone could give me some help on this, I'd really appreciate\nit. I don't get on news regularly, so if you can help, please\ne-mail me at passman@world.std.com\n\nThanks.", "\nWait a minute; I could swear that Varsho is white.", "OK, many people emailed me asking for information on Congruent Corporation's\nproduct which allows X/Motif unix applications to function on Windows NT.\nToday I was sent a telephone number by a kind person by the name of Sam (I'd\ngive better attribution, but the mail is in a different application on VMS :-()\n\nThe number to call in New York City is (212)431-5100\n\nThe email address is info@congruent.com\n\nThe product is NTNIX.\n\nOther details I do not know.\n\nThey said they'd send me email info, but as yet it has not arrived. More\nas I get it. Cheers Folks!\n-- \nsnail@lsl.co.uk ", "Does anybody know what Delaunay Triangulation is?\nIs there any reference to it? \nIs it useful for creating 3-D objects? If yes, what's the advantage?\n\nThanks in advance.", "Greetings,\n I have an Epson HI-80 4 pen plotter forsale. It emulates an HP 7570\nor 7574 - I'm not sure which. It has an option board on it that does\nthe emulation. It has a serial interface with Hardware handshake. I\nalso have 340 Pens for it as follows: 10 packs of 4 Black Oil based, 16\npacks of 4 Red,Green, Blue, and Black pens, 22 packs of 4 Aqueous Black,\n7 packs of 4 Aqueous R,G,Blue,Black, 1 pack of 6 Aqueous Multi color\npens, and 114 assorted non-packaged pens mostly colored.\n\n The plotter is used. I have tested it using the Windows drivers for\nHP 7570 and HP 7574 and both worked fine. It accepts either A or B\nsized paper. (8.5 x 11 or 11x17).\n\n I figure that the plotter is worth about $300 and the pens are worth at\nleast another $200 more.. One thing is certain, you won't need to\npurchase any pens for quite a while... All of the packaged pens were\nsealed so they are all still fresh. The rest were capped and seem to\nfunction as well.\n\n I'd be willing to sell the pens seperate if anyone is interested in\njust them.\n\n I'm selling it because I got a HP LaserJet and I don't need color.\n\n I'd like $350 or best offer...\n\n -Chert", "\n\n\tI just got my advance program and the \"card in the back\" is for the\n\tExhibits Plus program -- the exhibits plus admission to a number of\n\tconference venues, including a special general session, \"Behind the\n\tScenes: Computer Graphics in Film.\" Admission is not free, but is a\n\tnominal $30 (exhibits are open August 3 -- 5).\n\n\tTo get a copy of the advance program, you can call 312-321-6830; the\n\tadvance program itself is a good indication of the excitement of the\n\tconference!\n\n\n\tSorry -- doesn't work this year!", "I am involved with a Michigan company that has an application requiring \nwireless data transfer. If you have expertise or information that may \nassist us in this project, please contact me (INTERNET: leblanc@cvm.msu.\nedu).\n\n", "If anyone would have a low quantity distributer for these little \nbeasts (3479P) by Motorola, please let me know!\n \n_______________________________________________ \n | |\n _______ | Baden de Bari |\n / \\ | baden@sys6626.bison.mb.ca |\n (| o o |) | baden@inqmind.bison.mb.ca |\n | ^ | | >> True life can only |\n \\ -=- / | >> be experianced by |\n \\_____/ | >> those who do not fear death. |", "Greetings this is a general call for information regarding Image\nProcessing. I am looking for any material related to the field, and am\nalso trying to get my hands on some easy to use packages related to the\nfield. In particular source code for general use packages.\n\nI already have several texts on the subject, but would appreciate more\ninput from people more knowledgable in the field than myself. I'm not\nmathematically literate (ie. I don't have a degree in mathematics), so\nany material that is suggested I would prefer that it was not\nmathematically intensive.\n\nThe best book I have found on the subject at the moment is:\n\n\"Practical Digital Image Processing\"\nby Rhys Lewis\nISBN: 0-13-683525-2\nPublished by Ellis Horwood (c)1990.\n\nLikewise I am trying to get a fair sample of programs that demonstrate\nImage Processing techniques. So far I have 'xv', and 'khoros' for Unix.\n'Dcview 2.1' for the IBM PC, and various related smatterings of C code\nto help describe topics like, contrasting, dithering, image enhancement\nvia convolution etc.\n\nIf anyone could kindly supply me with some public domain software\npertinent to this area, or better still if they could tell me where I am\nmost likely to find it on the AARNET (Internet). If I can I would prefer\nsource code in C or Turbo Pascal that includes some Image Processing\ncode/algorithms, that I can readily alter/manipulate for the purposes of\ndemonstration it would be most helpful.\n\nAll the above information will contribute to my post-graduate studies,\nand will be liberally used in my paper, and seminar on the subject.\n\n\n Thanks in advance Vance Ashlin\n Diploma Advanced Computing\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\nThinking is dangerous, subversive, mindnumbing and leads you astray\n\nashlin@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au\ni880429@redgum.ucnv.edu.au", "It does sound funny, I will admit. But for me it is true. Windows crashed on\nall of the time (and from what I have read in PC Mag, this is not the exception)\n. OS/2 gives each windows app a VDM and they can't touch each other or\n(generally) anything they aren't supposed to have. If windows works for you,\nthen great. Maybe this is why some people don't see why OS/2 is the OS of \nchoice. If windows doesn't crash on you, and you don't mind waiting on each\ntask, and not being able to adress your memory better than DOS, some of the\nkey reasons for using OS/2 are gone. I probably would still use it, but it\nwould be more of an even fight.\nBrett \n", "Does anyone know how to absolute memory locations in windows,\nie. hardware that is memory mapped at very high addresses 16mb++\nand above?\nPlease reply by email\nthanks\nDavid\n", "\nWhile I have respect for John's ability and integrity, I really regret his\nleaving just after a major release (or, more accurately, making the release\njust before leaving). Several of us are having problems with xv-3.00, and\nin particular I have issues with all the fixes that have so far been made\nto the Imakefiles and xv.h. Without John to adjudicate, and everybody\nposting fixes that work for *them*, chaos is inevitable; let's hope it is\ntemporary.", "\nWhile the 64K limit may not be _necessary_ limitation, they probably fall\nwithin the category of 'reasonable' limitations. If you find yourself\ntrying to allocate an edit control for more than 64K of text, it's probably\ntime take a good look at your program's design.\n\n\nIn what way is 8192 a 'small' number? It seems to me that you'd hit the\nwall in many other ways before you'd hit the systemwide limit on global\nhandles, unless, of course, you're abusing GlobalAlloc.\n\n\nAnd _please_ don't try to tell me that it's impossible to abuse the\nresources available under other operating systems. All systems have\nlimits. The question is whether or not the limits are _reasonable_. So\nfar, you haven't offered a single argument which suggests that Windows'\nlimits are any less reasonable than limits in other systems.\n\n\n-- \nRick Schaut\nUUCP:...{uunet | uw-beaver}!microsoft!richs", "I have a problem where an Athena strip chart widget is not calling it's\nget value function. I am pretty sure this is happening because I am\nnot using XtAppMainLoop, but am dealing with events via sockets. (ya ya).\n\nAnyway, I want to cause a timeout so that the strip chart widget(s) will\ncall their get value callback. Or if someone knows another FAST way around\nthis (or any way for that matter) let me know. I cannot (or I don't think)\ncall the XtNgetValue callback myself because I don't have the value for\nthe third parameter of the get value proc (XtPointer call_data). \n\nIn other words, I want to force a strip chart widget to update itself.\n\nAny ideas anyone? \n", "\n: The key issue that I bought my BJ-200 on was ink drying speed. You really \n: have to try awful hard to get the BJ-200 ink to smear. The HP DeskJets need \n: 10-15 seconds to completely dry. In both cases, however, do not get your \n: pages wet. Unlike laser printers, the material on your pages is INK, not \n: toner. But that should go without saying.", "Anyone know how an application can retrieve the name of the font from\nan application given an XFontStruct *? \nWould XGetFontProperty work if I passed XA_FONT_NAME? \nanyone know details of this? Thanks in advance.\nBrian\n", "Being in the \"visualization\" stage of a circuit design right now,\nI was wondering what the best way to \"scale\" an AC voltage using an 8-bit\ndigital word is. I am thinking of using the common method of sending the\nword through an ADC and then comparing it with the AC voltage (converted\nto a sawtooth wave) to get a duty cycle. However, I am leary of this\nmethod because it a) requires a lot of parts, and, more importantly, b)\ncreates a lot of interference from the switching on the entire AC line. I\nrealize that correct filtering could cancel out most of this interference,\nbut that would require more parts and boost the price further.\n\tSomeone mentioned to me that they had seen an IC which input 8\nbits of data and DIRECTLY scaled the AC voltage coming in all on-chip.\nUnfortunately, he couldn't remember the chip number or the manufacturer;\nif anyone else has heard of this chip, please e-mail me.\n\tI am building this project as a \"dimmer box\" for a light\ncontroller circuit and it is important that the cost of each box remains\nvery low because one dimmer is required for each light that the user\nwishes to control (well, each channel, at least). Therefor, if each box\ncosts $150, I doubt that an end user will want to dish out ($150 x 16 =\n$2400) for sixteen channels... This is something I have noticed about\ntoday's dimmer boxes; they are so expensive!\n\tAnyway, any help which someone could offer on either a method of\neasily doing this or info about the chip which will do it for me (always\nthe preferred method... :) will be greatly appreciated!", "Hi there,\n\nDoes anyone know why Apple has an ambiguous message for\nC650 regarding fpu? In all Mac price lists I've seen, every C650\nhas the message \"fpu: optional\". I know from what we've discussed in this\nnewsgroup that all C650 have the fpu built in except the 4/80\nconfiguration. Why would they be so unclear about this issue in their\nprice list?\nI'm planning to buy the C650 8/230/cd pretty soon, but I'm now getting\nconfused with whether it comes with fpu or not.\nWhy say \"optional\" if it's built in?\nPlease, anybody help me understand this game.\n\nRegards,", "I am working on a project where we are going to be including\nboth still and moving grapics within a database. Of course\nJPEG and MPEG come to mind as the formats of choice for the\nvarious files. However, from what I read on the Net, it seems\nas if there are several different forms of each of these.\n\nWhat I want to do, is settle on a file format which I can count\non as being a standard format 10 years from now. I know Apple is going\nto support Quicktime on the new Power PC's and, so this\nmay be the format of choice.\n\nWhat format does Apple's Quicktime use for their products? I guess\nit is some kind of MPEG for their motion picture. Is it any different\nthan standard MPEG files?\n\nThanx for any info!", "On a recently acquired Gateway 2000 machine, when starting Windows,\nthree copyright statements flash on the screen right after the MS logo\ndisappears and before ProgramManager takes over. This does not happen\non any other of our machines, and I am wondering whether this is a\nfeature or whether this is related to several problems we are having\nwith the machine.\n\nThe system is a Gateway 2000, 4DX-33 machine.\n\nThe messages that appear are:\n\n\t(c) Copyright 1989-1992 Western Digital Corporation\n\t\tAll Rights Reserved\n\t(c) Copyright 1985-1992 Congruent Corporation\n\t\tAll Rights Reserved\n\t(c) Copyright 1985-1992 Microsoft Corporation\n\t\tAll Rights Reserved\n\nThe AUTOEXEC.BAT file looks like this:\n\n@ECHO OFF\nPROMPT $P$G\nSET MOUSE=C:\\MSMOUSE\nC:\\MSMOUSE\\MOUSE\nPATH=C:\\;C:\\DOS;C:\\WINDOWS;c:\\123;c:\\wp51;f:\\apps;f:\\system;f:\\winapps;f:\\public\nSET TEMP=C:\\WINDOWS\\TEMP\nlh wd8003e -n 0x62 5 0x280 0xd000\nlh winpkt 0x60 0x62\nlh ipx\nlh netx\nf:\\login\\login\nwin :\n\nThe CONFIG.SYS file looks like this:\n\nDEVICE=C:\\WINDOWS\\HIMEM.SYS\nDOS=HIGH,umb\nDEVICE=C:\\WINDOWS\\EMM386.EXE NOEMS X=D000-D1FF\nSTACKS=9,256\nFILES=50\nBUFFERS=30\nSHELL=C:\\DOS\\COMMAND.COM /P /E:1024\n\nDoes anyone know what is going on? Any help would be much\nappreciated.\n", "O\n\nI also would like code or algorithms to do this.\n\nIn fact, I am interested in sources for code and/or algorithms that\nconvert 2D graphical objects into other 2D graphical objects that\nwill render into the same image. i.e. Bezier curves to B splines,\nor splines to circular arc segments, or B splines to polgons, etc...\n\n", "I do not know if I am hitting the right news groups or not, any help in\nthe right direction is more than welcome. I need help finding a company\nthat will take photographic images scanned in and modified by Adobe Photoshop\nand turn them into thermal prints or negatives. I am looking for a place\nas close to North Carolina as possible. The images will be created on\na Macintosh Quadra 800 running Adobe Photoshop and will then be stored in\nwhatever format the vendor requires, perhaps 88M cartridges?\n\n The images will be black and white photographs scanned in with a 1200 dpi\nscanner then modified/corrected by Adobe Photoshop. If anyone could help me\nor even give me phone numbers to people who could I would be very grateful.\n\n Also if anyone else is doing what I am planning I would be happy to hear\nfrom you with any advice you might provide as to the computer system you\nuse and/or any peripherals or software. It seemed the Quadra 800 would be\nmy best bet to modify photographic images. I am planning on buying a Quadra\n800 with 32Megs of RAM, a 510Meg Hard Drive, a 1200 dpi scanner, 17\" Sony \nmonitor and a 88Meg cartridge drive and perhaps a CD ROM. I am new to\ncomputers and any advice would be great.", "Hi world,\n \n I want to buy a Spirit II 14400 Data/Fax modem (made in U.S.A.).\nHave anyone heard about it or using it? What is it's performance? Is it\nstable or not? Please give me some advice.\n \n In addition, I heard a news from local distributor that a new\n28800baud CCITT ROM (the distributor said it will be the new CCITT \nstandard.) for this modem will be produced at the end of this \nyear. After replaced the old ROM by this 28800 ROM, this Spirit II can\ntransfer data at 28800baud without any hardware alternation. Is this \nnew true and possible? Would the telephone line really able to transfer \nat such high speed? Please give me some advice.\n \n At last, can anyone tell me how to contact with the central \ndealer QuickComm. Inc.? (I am not sure whether it in U.S.A. or not.)\nPlease leave me a e-mail.\n \nThank you very much.", "I am getting desperate. I have a report that must be finished by midnight,\nand W4W doesn't seem to have what appears to be a MUST! I use the autonum\nfield for numbering chapters, but my document is distributed amongst\nseveral files. I just can't find a way to make Word start the numbering\nat something else than 0 or 1. Of course, everything is fine in the first\nfile, but it's pretty stupid when ALL chapters are numbered as 1 !!!!!!!!\n\nPlease, if you have ANY solution to this (except from putting it all in\none 10M document ...) e-mail me immediately !\nAs I am working on th report I hardly have any time to read News, so\nplease e-mail me. All answers will be heartly welcome ...\n\nIn advance, thanx a lot !!!!!!\n", "\n... Wouldn't a crystal be affected by cold? My gut feeling is that, as a\nmechanically resonating device, extreme cold is likely to affect the\ncompliance (?terminology?) of the quartz, and hence its resonant frequency.\n\n\n\nJohnH\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n | _ |_ _ |_| _ _| _| Electronics Department\n |_| (_) | | | | | | (_| (_| (_| \\/ School of MPCE\n ---------------------------------/- Macquarie University\n Sydney, AUSTRALIA 2109\n\n Email: johnh@mpce.mq.edu.au, Ph: +61 2 805 8959, Fax: +61 2 805 8983\n", "I know that Apple is working on an active matrix color powerbook. When\nis it going to come out. I heard on rumor that it will be in two months\nand another that it will be seen at the MacWorld Expo in Boston? What's\nthe word?", "I've spent the past week tearing my hair out, trying to get the output of\na piped \"tail -f\" to end up in a widget. I've managed to make it work in\nsome ugly ways, but either a) X blocks on the tail and won't allow user\ninput, b) the \"tail -f\" functions like just \"tail\" and doesn't follow the\nexpansion of the file, c) the \"tail -f\" doesn't die after I've closed\nthe pipe and destoryed the widget, or d) pclose() blocks forever waiting\nfor tail to die.\n\tI _know_ this code has to exist. Anybody have it? A general\npopen() case would be perfered but at this point I'll take anything...\nThanks.", "THANKS TO ALL OF YOU WHO RESPONDED TO MY POSTING. \n\nTHE PROBLEM WITH MY TRUCK'S HEADLIGHTS LOW BEAM PROBLEM WAS A \"LOOSE WIRE\n CONNECTION\". IT WAS NOT THE \"FUSE\" AS A MINORITY OF YOU SUGGESTED.", "..deleted...\n\nIn plain Motify using a dialog 'in-line' like this simply isn't done. You need\nto set callbacks from the buttons/widgets in your dialog and let the callback routines\ndo the work. In the callbacks you can then carry on the flow of logic. \n\nXView from Sun actually supports this very neatly with a 'Notify' box, which can\nreturn a status in-line, it does actualy ease coding but goes against the event\ndriven style of an application.\n\nSummary: Redesign required.\n\n", "There are JPEG viewers that are windows based and therefore need no hardware\nspecific drivers beyond those provided in windows. I got mine from the Library\nof Congress in connection with their online exhibit of books from the Vatican\nlibrary. See a previous message in this newgroup about that.", "Chicago from what I have read is projected to run in 4M on 386 and higher.\nIt is definitely aimed at the desktop. \nIt is rumored to offer preemptive multitasking,\nmultithreading but will not offer multiprocessing. Is 32 bit and no reliance\non DOS. It is rumored to have an integrated file and program manager. \nDOS 7 is rumored to be similar to Chicago but without the GUI. Is also\na step towards CAIRO (the next generation OS) which is rumored to be \nobject oriented.\nI wonder where Windows 4.0 fits here is it a stepping stone to Chicago?\nHope this helps.\nThx Dave L\n\n\n\n", "\n\nIf it's any consolation, I have two 2-headed Sun-3/60 systems, though the\ncolor and mono monitors for each are \"rated\" 1152x900. Their configuration\nis the same as yours, so it \"should\" be a Plug'N'Play situation, EXCEPT:\n\nI don't know if your hi-res mono monitor will function this way. However,\nyou may simply be able to pull the motherboard and set the HI-RES jumper\n(located in the same jumper array as the jumpers for the RAM/SIMM selects\nand Ethernet connection) and be happily on your way. When you pull the\nmotherboard, the jumpers are in the left-rear (e.g. \"north-west\") quadrant\nof the motherboard (to the left of the SIMM sockets).", "Please reply to the seller below.\n\nFor Sale:\n\nSun SCSI-2 Host Adapter Assembly\n-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-\n Brand New In Unopened Mylar\n Sun part no. 501-1167\n \n 50pin Dsub external connector\n Compatible with Sun 3/100/200, 4/200/300 machines\n\t\n Available March 1, 1993.\n\n Originally purchased for ~$1,200 eighteen months ago\n\nPlease email offers to:", "(2nd posting of the question that just doesn't seem to get answered)\n\nSuppose you have an idle app with a realized and mapped Window that contains\nXlib graphics. A button widget, when pressed, will cause a new item\nto be drawn in the Window. This action clearly should not call XCopyArea() \n(or equiv) directly; instead, it should register the existence of the new\nitem in a memory structure and let the same expose event handler that handles\n\"regular\" expose events (e.g. window manager-driven exposures) take care\nof rendering the new image. Using an expose event handler is a \"proper\" way\nto do this because at the time the handler is called, the Xlib Window is\nguaranteed to be mapped.\n\nThe problem, of course, is that no expose event is generated if the window\nis already visible and mapped. What we need to do is somehow \"tickle\" the\nWindow so that the expose handler is hit with arguments that will enable\nit to render *just* the part of the window that contains the new item.", "I used to hate it when people posted messages like this, but now that I\nam contemplating a purchase, I can see why they do.\n\nSo, has anyone heard of any upcoming (within the next 6 months)\nadvances in the Powerbook line? Can we expect to see a PowerPC\nPowerBook at some point in the future (I assume an 040 would take too\nmuch power and generate too much heat for installation in a PowerBook)?", "I had posted this before, but the buyer fell through, so here goes again....", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nYes, the IIci has 32-bit clean ROMs.", "\n Yes. There are many methods of rendering, raytracing is one of them.\nYou didn't say what you mean by rendering, so I won't guess. Methods of\nrendering include:\n\n o Pencil and graph paper, doing the math by hand\n\n o Wireframe rendering of the 2D projection\n\n o Hidden line rendering\n\n o Scanline rendering using:\n - Painter's algorithm.\n - BSP trees.\n - Z buffer\n - Other\n\n o Raytracing\n\n o Radiosity\n\n o Holographic projection to film\n\n o Combination of any of the above", "By night I'm an Amiga user. By day I work with windows. I'd be much more \ncomfortable in windows if I had Two things.\n\n1. A good Personal information manager. You know- a calendar, address book,\nreminder list etc... rolled into one clean interface.\n\n2. A good file manager. Microsofts is very poor by my standards. How\nabout one that has a left and right window and allows file operations \nbetween them. being able to launch programs from the same interface\nwould be nice. as well as text reading and graphics viewing. Those\nwho are familiar with Directory Opus on the Amiga know what I'm\nlooking for.\n\nIf anyone can steer me towards an FTP sight with these programs it would\nmake my transition to windows a lot easier. Please reply via email\nas I rarely get to read this group. thanks so much!\n_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _\n | why would he be such a jerk? i know that he doesn't smoke \nsteve lombardi | drugs. and he doesn't do cocaine. and he doesn't shoot \nstlombo@acm.rpi.edu | smack. and he doesn't even drink beer. Why would he be \n | such a fu*ker to me? --WEEN", "I've been intently following the MAG thread while waiting for\nmine to arrive in the mail. There seems to be a lot of\ncomplaints about minor alignment problems with the MX15F. One\narticle contained a comment that the owner called the factory\nand was told that his screen rotation was within spec (1/4\").\n\nWell, my monitor arrived last night and, sure enough, it has\na very noticable barrel distortion. It's not dramatic, but it\nis there and it is especially noticable when the image doesn't\nfill the entire screen. The fact that it is worse on the right\nside doesn't help matters.\n\nWhat I'm trying to find out is if these minor imperfections\nare the norm or are most of their monitors perfect? I don't want\nto send it back and get one with the same or an even worse\nproblem. Does the factory consider this kind of thing normal\nand ship their monitors with less than perfect alignment? \nAre other netters just living with these kind of imperfections?\n\n-- ", " How fast do the fastest modems go?\n\nV.FAST is targeted for about 28kbps; 14.4kbps is ~$500, and 19.2 may\nbe here soon too. (Remember to ignore compression figures which make\nyour modem go faster on compressible data, because voice gets\ncompressed better than that, and encryption makes further compression impossible.)\n\n How far can voice be compressed?\n\nThe STU-III phones on the market from AT&T, Motorola, and (I forget who else),\ngive you a choice of 9600, 4800, and 2400 baud. The 9600 and 4800 are CELP,\nand I think the 2400 is some earlier military vocoder stuff.\n9600 is decent, 2400 is pretty artificial, anything less is Speak&Spell.\n16000 can produce quite adequate sound. There's also some 8 kbps CELP around.\nDSPs have made it possible to do all this in real time for cheap.\n\nOld-hand government crypto have trouble adjusting to systems faster\nthan 9600 baud, because if the voice on the other end sounds good,\nyou assume the crypto hasn't been turned on yet :-)", "If a PC has one, does Windows 3.1 use a math co-processor? I'm not talking\nabout specific apps, but the OS (if you want to call it that) itself?\n\nPlease respond by email.", "The following comics are for auction. The highest bid takes them! \n\nAll are near mint to mint condition!\n\n\nTITLE Minimum/Current \n--------------------------------------------------------------\nAlpha Flight 51 (Jim Lee's first work at Marvel)\t$ 5.00\n\nAliens 1 (1st app Aliens in comics, 1st prnt, May 1988)\t$20.00/KrisM./SOLD\n\nAmazing Spider-Man 136 (Intro new Green Goblin) $20.00\n\nAmazing Spider-Man 238 (1st appearance Hobgoblin)\t$50.00\n\nArcher and Armstrong 1 (Frank Miller/Smith/Layton)\t$ 7.50\n\nAvengers 263 (1st appearance X-factor) $ 3.50\n\nBloodshot 1 (Chromium cover, BWSmith Cover/Poster)\t$ 5.00/SamE/SOLD\n\nCyberRad 1 (Reintro CyberRad, Prestige silver edition)\t$15.00\n\nDaredevil 158 (Frank Miller art begins) $35.00\n\nDark Horse Presents 1 (1st app Concrete, 1st printing)\t$ 7.50 \n\nDetective 657 (Azrael appears, Intro Cypher)\t\t$ 5.00\n\nDetective 658 (Azrael appears)\t\t\t\t$ 4.00\n\nHarbinger 10 (1st appearance H.A.R.D. Corps)\t\t$ 7.00/B.Matthey/SOLD\n\nH.A.R.D. Corps 1 \t\t\t\t\t$ 5.00\n\nIncredible Hulk 324 (1st app Grey Hulk since #1 1962)\t$ 7.00\n\nIncredible Hulk 330 (1st McFarlane issue)\t\t$15.00\n\nIncredible Hulk 331 (Grey Hulk series begins)\t\t$11.00\n\nIncredible Hulk 367 (1st Dale Keown art in Hulk) $15.00\n\nIncredible Hulk 377 (1st all new hulk, 1st prnt, Keown) $15.00\n\nMarvel Comics Presents 1 (Wolverine, Silver Surfer) $ 7.50\n\nMarvel Presents (Charleston Chew giveaway, Sam Keith)\t$ 5.00\n\nMaxx Limited Ashcan (4000 copies exist, blue cover)\t$30.00\n\nMr T. #1 (Signed Advance copy, 10,000 exist)\t\t$10.00\n\nNew Mutants 86 (McFarlane cover, 1st app Cable - cameo)\t$10.00\n\nNew Mutants 100 (1st app X-Force) $ 5.00\n\nNew Mutants Annual 5 (1st Liefeld art on New Mutants)\t$10.00\n\nOmega Men 3 (1st appearance Lobo) $ 7.50\n\nOmega Men 10 (1st full Lobo story) $ 7.50\n\nPower Man & Iron Fist 78 (3rd appearance Sabretooth) $20.00\n\nPower Man & Iron Fist 84 (4th appearance Sabretooth) $15.00\n\nSimpsons Comics and Stories 1 (Polybagged special ed.)\t$ 7.50\n\nSpectacular Spider-Man 147 (1st app New Hobgoblin) $12.50\n\nSpider-Man Special (UNICEF giveaway, vs Venom)\t\t$10.00\n\nStar Trek the Next Generation 1 (Feb 1988, DC mini) $ 7.50\n\nStar Trek the Next Generation 1 (Oct 1989, DC comics) $ 7.50\n\nTrianglehead #1 (Special limited edition, autographed)\t$ 5.00\n\nWeb of Spider-Man 29 (Hobgoblin, Wolverine appear) $10.00 \n\nWeb of Spider-Man 30 (Origin Rose, Hobgoblin appears) $ 7.50\n\nWolverine 10 (Before claws, 1st battle with Sabretooth)\t$15.00\n\nWolverine 41 (Sabretooth claims to be Wolverine's dad)\t$ 5.00\n\nWolverine 42 (Sabretooth proven not to be his dad)\t$ 3.50\n\nWolverine 43 (Sabretooth/Wolverine saga concludes)\t$ 3.00\n\nWolverine 1 (1982 mini-series, Miller art)\t\t$20.00\n\nWonder Woman 267 (Return of Animal Man) $12.50\n\nX-Force 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, X-Force card) $20.00\n\nX-Force 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, Shatterstar card) $10.00\n\nX-Force 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, Deadpool card) $10.00\n\nX-Force 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, Sunspot/Gideon) $10.00\n\n\nAll comics are in near mint to mint condition, are bagged in shiny \npolypropylene bags, and backed with white acid free boards. Shipping is\n$1.50 for one book, $3.00 for more than one book, or free if you order \na large enough amount of stuff. I am willing to haggle.\n\nI have thousands and thousands of other comics, so please let me know what \nyou've been looking for, and maybe I can help. ", "...\n\nOpen up the .PIF file with the PIF Editor, click on the \"Advanced\" button,\nand then reserve the PrtSc key for the application. Any keys that you\nselect in this section will be passed along to the application rather than\nbeing processed by Windows.\n", "I heard that the magic date for price drop in a number of Apple products\nwill\nbe \nJune 30th. Can anyone second this rumour?\n-- \nA motion picture major at the Brooks Institute of Photography, CA\nSanta Barbara and a foreign student from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.", "\nPerhaps all of us hackers have become (ICK) PROFESSIONALS? I have noticed\nmy and my associates progression from hackers to computer professionals.\nIt is rather distasteful. It occurs when a series of things happen:\n\n 1) one's ego outgrows one's talent/knowledge\n 2) one's financial situation takes precedence\n 3) A change in priorities (esp. family) possibly leading to 2)\n 4) the hacker's attitude makes the shift from \"fun\" to \"work\"\n 5) one's vocation burns away the creativity needed for \"the hobby\"\n\nor the biggest killer (IMO)\n\n 6) one's dreams are (sadly) shattered on the hard rocks of society's\n version of reality. Without the dream the motivation dies, without\n the motivation the effort seems useless.\n\nAnother set of problems stems from our children. While most of us remember\nwhen there were several completely different computer systems, our children\nare growing up with just a few choices (MSDOS/Mac/Amiga) and do not enjoy\nthe diversity we did. I remember the great computer fallout of the early\neighties vividly as I was forced to stop using skills developed for systems\nthat were now dead. The diversity of systems before then allowed for widely\ndivergent paradigms. That period forced hackers to continually learn new\nsystems in the attempt to keep up. Not to mention that if a program was\nneeded we were forced (in most situations) to write it ourselves as a\ncommercial offering was just not available. Now our children are being\ntaught the \"user\" mentality. As the number of us \"old-timers\" dwindle we are\nnot being replaced by the next generation.\n\nKendall.\n-- \n Kendall Sears krsear02@ulkyvx.louisville.edu\n Programmer ///\n Child Development Unit /// Amiga\n Department of Pediatrics \\\\\\/// Currently running AmigaOS 3.0\n University of Louisville \\XX/ And Supporting Unix Sys V Rev 4.", "I'm working on an X11R5 application and have concerns regarding \nstandard colormaps.\n\nthese colormaps.\" I wonder what window manager the writer had \nin mind. Neither twm or mwm seem to create standard colormaps.\n\nOf course, one can use xstdcmap to create standard colormaps. \nHowever, xstdcmap doesn't seem to try very hard to avoid \nconflicts with the default colormap. When I use standard \ncolormaps created by xstdcmap, the rest of my display goes black. \nSo it seems as if use of standard colormaps causes the very \nproblem standard colormaps are intended to avoid. Perhaps \nif every application used standard colormaps, things would \nbe wonderful. But not many applications seem to use \nstandard colormaps.\n\nFinally, the operation of the functions XmuGetColormapAllocation, \nXmuStandardColormap, and XmuCreateColormap seem inconsistent \nwith the section 14.3 of the X11R5 XLIB documentation.\n\n According to the section 14.3 of the X11R5 XLIB documentation (p. 436):\n\n For GrayScale colormaps, only the colormap, red_max, red_mult, and \n base_pixel members are defined. The other members are ignored. \n To compute a GrayScale pixel value, use the following expression:\n\n (gray * red_mult + base_pixel) &0xFFFFFFFF\n\n XmuGetColormapAllocation, defined in mit/lib/Xmu/CmapAlloc.c, is \n used by XmuLookupStandardColormap, defined in mit/lib/Xmu/LookupCmap.c\n to select red_max, green_max, and blue_max values for the \n call to XmuStandardColormap. When the RGB_GRAY_MAP property is \n specified, XmuGetColormapAllocation sets red_max to 30% of the \n total number of cells in the gray scale, sets green_max to 59% \n of the total number, and sets blue_max ot 11% of the total number.\n Referring to section 14.3, one would expect XmuGetColormapAllocation \n to set red_max to the total number of cells in the gray scale.\n\n When the RGB_GRAY_MAP property is specified, XmuStandardColormap, \n defined in mit/lib/Xmu/StdCmap.c, sets red_mult, green_mult, \n and blue_mult all equal to 1. Referring to section 14.3, \n one would expect green_mult and blue_mult to be ignored.", "For Sale...:\n \n Three software packages for IBM PC and compatible computers:\n \n \n o Wing Commander deluxe edition\n o Includes Secret Missions 1 & 2\n o Includes all original packaging, manuals\n and disks\n o Includes registration card (so you can\n send it in and register it in your name)\n o Original price for Wing Commander: $69.95\n o Original price for Secret Missions I: $29.95\n o Original price for Secret Missions II: $29.95\n o Total original price: $129.85\n o My asking price for all these of these\n games TOGETHER is $65.00\n o Wing Commander and the Secret Missions is a\n battle and flight simulator set in space. It\n includes all the standard fun things about\n flight simulators, like taking off and landing\n on carriers, flying -- of course -- and better\n yet, it is also a battle simulator. It is a\n lot of fun, indeed.\n o An IBM PC or compatible with at least 640K, and\n dual floppies or a hard drive is required.\n \n \n o WinWay Resume for Windows\n o Includes all original packaging, manuals\n and disks\n o Original price: $50.00\n o My asking price: $35.00\n o WinWay Resume is a resume writing program for\n Windows. It is an excellent program (it got\n me a job!) and running under the Window's\n interface makes it very, very easy to use. All\n you do is answer a few questions, and print out\n the results. In just a few minutes, you have a\n beautifully and professionally designed resume.\n o An IBM PC with Windows 3.0 or later installed\n and 1 MB of free hard disk space is required.\n \n \n o More Typefaces\n o Includes all original packaging, manuals\n and disks\n o Original price: $99.99\n o My asking price: $30.00\n o More Typefaces is a package of three TypeType\n font families (for a total of twelve fonts) for\n Windows 3.1. The fonts included are: Marque,\n Crystal and Architech, and of course italic,\n bold and bold italic versions are included with\n all those fonts. Because of the unique font\n software included with the package, these fonts\n can be used with either the MoreFonts typeface\n program, Adobe Type Manager, TrueType, GeoWorks,\n Express Publisher and CorelDRAW.\n o An IBM PC with Windows 3.1 and a hard disk is\n required if you want to use the typefaces in\n TrueType format. For all other formats, an\n IBM PC and a hard disk with one of the programs\n listed above is required.\n \n \n If you are interested in any of these programs, please\neither leave me email or call Kirk Peterson at (303) 494-7951,\nanytime. If I don't answer, leave me a message on my answering\nmachine and I'll call you back. I will pay the shipping on all\nof the programs to anywhere in the continental United States.", "Does anyone know where I can FTP MPEG for DOS from? Thanks for any\nhelp in advance. Email is preferred but posting is fine.\n\n\t\t\t\tScott\n\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------", "A while ago I installed SPSS for Windows as part of an evaluation. Once\nthe evaluation was complete I duly deleted the software from my PC.\n\nUnfortunately there is still a \"ghost\" of SPSS left: when I run\nsomething like \"Write\" and go to embed an object then \"SPSS Chart\"\nappears on the list of objects I'm offered. I looked around all\nthe obvious \"INI\" files without success. The next thing I tried\nwas looking for the string \"SPSS Chart\" in every file in the \nWindows directory. It turned up in a file called REQ.DAT (or\nREG.DAT). Unfortunately the file was binary and so I didn't feel\ninclined to edit it.\n\nI'd welcome a solution for removing SPSS from the list of OLE servers.", "Hi!\n\tI am working on a project that needs to create contour lines\nfrom random data points. The work that I have done so far tells me that I\nneed to look into Triangulated Irregular Networks (TIN), the Delauney\ncriiterion, and the Krige method. Does anyone have any suggestions for\nreferences, programs and hopefully source code for creating contours. Any\nhelp with this or any surface modeling would be greatly appreciated.\nI can be reached at the addresses below:\n\n\n\t\t\t-- Paul Conway", "\nWhy are circuit boards green? The material used to make them goes by two\nnames. If it is used to make circuit boards it is called FR-4. The same\nmaterial is used in the cryogenics industrya and marine industries as a\nstructural material and is called G-10. FR-4 and G-10 are both green. They\nare not green because of a solder masking agent. The basic ingredients are\na clear epoxy resin and glass fibers. I am not sure what the specs are on\nthe resin, but if you are really curious you can call NEMA (National\nElectronics Manufacturing Association) or Ciba Geigy (a major manufacturer\nof epoxy resins) to find out. As an aside, I occasionally mix clear epoxy\nand glass microsphres to cast small structures for cryogenics experiments.\nThe proportions of glass to epoxy are about the same as in G-10. They are\nthe same green color.\n", "-- \nIn the R5 file fix-01 there is the line that reads as the subject\nline here. I don't see a file fix-00. When I got a few Hmmm...\nlines putting on fix-01, it made me wonder if I has missed 00.\nAm I off the mark?\n\nThank you. \n======================================================================\nRay Stell\t\tstellr@smyrna.cc.vt.edu\t\t(703) 231-4109", ": I'm not sure if this is the correct place to ask this question. If not,\n: please forgive me and point me in the right direction.\n\n: Does anybody know of a program that converts .GIF files to .BMP files\n: and if so, where can I ftp it from? Any help would be greatly \n: appreciated.\n\n: Please respond via e-mail as I do not read this group very often.\n\n: Thanks...Scott\n\nSorry Scott, if you post it here, you can read it here. There is a shareware\nprogram available via anonymous FTP that will suit your needs. You'll find \nit at OAK.OAKLAND.EDU in the subdirectory pub/msdos/graphics. The file is\ncalled \"GRFWK61T.ZIP.\"", "Mac Classic 2 4/40 for sale\n \n 1 year old, excellent condition\n Includes dustcovers, freeware/shareware (including many fonts )\n \n $800.00 \n\n\temail or call 510/947-6987 (SF Bay Area)", "Ok, lets say youve got a grid of hexagons\n\nthat go in a 10\n 9\n 10\n 9\n etc..\n\nfor a total of 15 rows down\n\nthat means there are 10 hexagons in the 1st line,\n9 lined up underneath in the second line\n10 lined up underneath in the third line\n9 lined up under neath in the fourht...\n\n\n\nthe problem is given the center of any arbritrary hexagon, and a line with\nand arbritrary slope, Which hexagons does that line cross through \n(The line doesn't necessarily have to cross through the center of other hexagon,it can even be a tangent and count). Any helpers, my friend was baffeled\nwhen trying to figure this.\n:w\n", "I am running windows 3.1 in 386 enhanced mode. The sound card I have\nis the ATI Stereo F/X-CD sound card which claims Adlib and Soundblaster\ncompatibility.\n\nUsing Windows MediaPlayer, I can play the midi files that came with\nmy sound card. However, I can't play any of the midi files that belong\nto the WinJammer midi editor that I ftp'd from cica. I also can't\nplay any midi files I generate with muzika (also from cica). When I\ntry to play the files, a dialog box pops up saying that the music\nmay not play right, and it has a checkbox asking me if i wish to disable\nthis message in the future.\n\nIs this normal, or do I have something set wrong? I would really like\nto be able to write music on muzika and have my computer play it.\n\nI also ftp'd the game dare2dream for windows (from cica) and its music\nwon't play either - I get the same dialog box.\n\nThe MIDI Mappers that I have are ATI Ext MIDI, ATI OPL3 MIDI, and Vanilla.\nI have tried using all three.\n\nAny help, suggestions, shoulders to cry on, etc. would be appreciated\nvery much.\n\nJohn P.", "The 486 at the same CLOCK is NOT as fast as the 040 at the same\nclock speed. The '040 also has much better floating point unit.\nNow the DX2-66 is faster than the '040 at 33Mhz. But for your\nreference the 486 at 33 mhz gets ~14MIPS while the '040 at\n33mhz gets ~20MIPS.\n", "I'm currently looking for information about different graphics\nformats, especially PPM, PCX BMP and perhaps GIF.\nDoes anyone know if there exist any files at some site\nthat describes these formats ???\n\nThanks !\n\n", " Bingo.\n Nothing evil at all. There's no actual harm in what they're doing, only\nhow they represent it.\n\n -----------------------------------------------------------------\n .sig files are like strings ... every yo-yo's got one.", "..continuing on my build problems, I got stuck here build xterm...\n\ngcc -fpcc-struct-return -o xterm main.o input.o charproc.o cursor.o util.o tabs.o screen.o scrollbar.o button.o Tekproc.o misc.o VTPrsTbl.o TekPrsTbl.o data.o menu.o -O2 -R/usr/wgep/X11R5.sos5/lib${LD_RUN_PATH+\\:$LD_RUN_PATH} -L../.././lib/Xaw -lXaw -L../.././lib/Xmu -lXmu -L../.././lib/Xt -lXt -L../.././extensions/lib -lXext -L../.././lib/X -lX11 -L/usr/wgep/X11R5.sos5/lib -lsocket -lnsl -ltermcap\nUndefined first referenced\n symbol in file\nindex /usr/ucblib/libtermcap.a(termcap.o)\nrindex /usr/ucblib/libtermcap.a(termcap.o)\nld: fatal: Symbol referencing errors. No output written to xterm\n*** Error code 1\nmake: Fatal error: Command failed for target `xterm'\n\nAny clues for help?\n", "\nThis probably only tells you that the DC blocking capacitor that's in series\nbetween the one-chip, single-ended audio amp and the speaker terminal is there.\n\n\nOpen it up and look for the power amp \"ICs\". They'll be fairly obvious. \nReplace the one connected to the dead output. \n\n\nWell, one thing you should do is poke around the terminals of the power amp\nchips. Use a probe with a 10M resistor (like a scope probe) connected to the\ninput of a small audio amp w/speaker. If you find line-level input to both\nchips, one of the chips is bad and can probably replaced pretty easily. \n\nIf you want to pick off a near-line-level signal, suitable for feeding to an\noutboard amp, the outer legs of the volume control pot will often be good\nenough. This is *before* the volume control (and usually before the tone and\nbalance controls too). If you take off from the center and ground legs of\nthe volume pot, this will be after the volume control (but again, probably \nbefore the other controls). \n\nIf the unit is a modern type with an electronic volume control chip, you should\nprobably forget the whole thing. ", "As long as we're bashing typography...\n\n\n\nYes, UNIX is case-dependent. :-)", "Does any one know where I can get a telecaption decoder module?\n\nNeed it to build a close caption decoder.\nThanks.\n\nWayne\n", "Does anyone know of a good way (standard PC application/PD utility) to\nconvert tif/img/tga files into LaserJet III format. We would also like to\ndo the same, converting to HPGL (HP plotter) files.\n\nPlease email any response.\n\nIs this the correct group?\n\nThanks in advance. Michael.", "Hi there,\nI'm having a bizarre video problem within Windows 3.1. I have a 286 with\na GVGA-16 video board. I've been using the standard Windows VGA driver\nwith other similarly configured computers.\n\nI am thinking that my problem is with the way Windows refreshes it's screen.\n\nThe problem is that once Windows has been envoked, the colors start\nchanging themselves. At first I thought it was hardware, but if you open\na full screen DOS program from within the Windows session, you don't have\nany problems until you get back to Windows - however, when you initially\nreturn to Windows, the original colors get refreshed properly.\n\nAlso, it is not a uniform color change - so if you are in solitaire, the\ndesign on the back of the card maintains it's original color scheme, but\nthe white fronts of the cards will turn grey, then blue, etc.\n\nThe color changes keep getting darker until finally everything is a dark\npurple-ish black. If you pop out to DOS and exit back to Windows - the\nscreen gets refreshed again.\n\nIf I don't log into Windows and just do DOS things from the Novell\nnetwork, everything is fine.\n\nI originally loaded the software by bouncing it down to the net from the\nother machine I had just finished configuring, then from the net to this\nmachine. When I ran into problems, I deleted everything on this machine\nand the net, and tried bouncing it again. When that didn't work, I tried\nreloading Windows to no avail.\n\nAny thoughts on things to check out? I am totally baffled!\n\nThanks in advance for any assistance and instruction!", "\n \nWe used to buy Beckman 110 and HD110 (\"ruggedized\") versions for use\nby electricians in the steel mill where I work. After a while we\ngot round to filling all the current-input jacks with silicone -\nelectricians have a regrettable habit of not checking where the last\nguy left the leads before using a 3 1/2 digit 0.5 % autoranging $400\nmeter to check if a fuse is good or not. Its very hard on meters\n(and electricians) when you put the milliamp shunt across a 600 volt\nbus. \n But that's not why we stopped buying Beckmans - after a while a \nlot of them got \"funny\" in the LCD display. A black stain would\nspread from one edge, or else they'd come adrift from those\nZebra connectors and fail to operate. Now we buy Flukes, the\nlow-end 20 series mostly ( and we still fill the amp jack with \nsilicone). \n What the world needs is a meter that won't let you change ranges or\nturn it on/off with a lead stuck in the amps jack - a little bit of\nclever plastic detailing would take care of this and make the world\nsafer for electricans, anyway.\n Not that I've ever put a meter on the wrong range into a live \ncircuit, no, not me...not more than a dozen times, anyway....\n Bill\n", "Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware: 19-Apr-93 AMD i486\nclones: Now legal .. by poe@wharton.upenn.edu \n\nIt's true. I read about it from an article in ClariNet (can't send it\nhere though). U.S. District Court Judge William A. Ingram, of San\nFrancisco, threw out the jury verdict prohibiting AMD from using Intels'\nmicrocode for the 486.", "For those of you who might be familiar with Insight Distribution\n Network, Inc. and their Multimedia Kits:\n\nI'm seriously considering buying the Insight Talon TA-2000 MM Kit, which\nis bundled with the CD-ROM drive with 265-280ms access time, 300Kb dtr,\nmultispin, multi-session Photo CD capability, etc., and with the PAS-16\nsound card, etc.... (if you are familiar with Insight, you know the kit\nI mean). I believe the drive is either a Texel (265ms) or an NEC\n(280ms), but it is not clear to me which one is actually a part of the\nbundle (at least two of their sales people couldn't give me a straight\nanswer as to which one; ah, yes, one of the drawbacks of OEM!).\n\nOther questions:\n\n- Excuse my ignorance, but is \"Texel\" a reputable maker in the CD-ROM\n market? Or do you think NEC is the better drive?\n\n- Bottom line: Is this kit worth the money? (Currently, $449 for the\n TA-1000, and $699 for the TA-2000)\n\nAlternatively, I was thinking that the TA-2000 might be overkill for my\nuses (however, I *do* want full multimedia capabilities, Photo CD stuff,\neducational programs for my kids, etc.), and considered the lower-end\nTA-1000 kit and using the difference (around $250.00) to get something\nelse useful, like a tape back-up drive unit.\n\nBasically, I would just like to hear from those who have actually USED\nthese kits, and whatever pros/cons you might advise, preferably\ndirectly to the email address below.\n\nThanks,\n\nKoji", "FM-2 has been sold.\n\nFollowing remains:", "Jerry Salem writes\n\nThe only way to do that would be to add a video card to the LC expansion \nport. This doesn't have to be that expensive; several companies have portrait \nmonitor/video card bundles available. \n\nCheck a current MacWorld/MacUser.\n\n--Nizam\n\n--", "Acorn Software, Inc. has 3 tape drives (currently used on a VMS\nsystem) for sale. These are all SCSI tape drives and are in\nworking condition.\n\n WangDat 1300 4mm $500.00\n WangDat 2600 4mm (compression) $650.00\n Exabyte 8200 8mm $650.00\n\nPlus shipping and COD. Certified checks only, please. These\nunits are sold as is and without warrantee. Contact me if you're\ninterested.\n-- \nDick Munroe\t\t\t\tInternet: munroe@dmc.com\nDoyle Munroe Consultants, Inc.\t\tUUCP: ...uunet!thehulk!munroe\n267 Cox St.\t\t\t\tOffice: (508) 568-1618\nHudson, Ma.\t\t\t\tFAX: (508) 562-1133", "I need a small battery powered hi voltage capacitive discharge supply to\ndeliver ~6 joules at 250 volts. This implies a 200uf cap. I have built\na very satisfactorily operating version from a MAX641, but do not like\nthe idea of using a $6 single source part. It seems that the ubiquitous\ncamera flash circuit is what I want, but I cant get mine apart without\nbreaking it. I would appreciate receiving the circuit description or\na source of one. I have already looked in several electronics circuits\nhandbooks to no avail. Thanx", "\n > \n > Hi, everybody:\n > I guess my subject has said it all. It is getting boring\n > looking at those same old bmp files that came with Windows. So,\n > I am wondering if there is any body has some beautiful bmp file\n > I can share. Or maybe somebody can tell me some ftp site for\n > some bmp files, like some scenery files, some animals files,\n > etc.... I used to have some, unfortunately i delete them all.\n \n \nI downloaded the CompuServe GIF of the month. A raytraced image of\na golf ball next to a hole. Very nice, 640x480x256 bitmap, easily\nconverted to a Windows BMP. If anyone wants, I could upload a copy\non Cica...\n\n\nEric", "I have for sale teh USWEST SearchDisc CDROM Phone Directory. This has\nthe names, phone number, address, business/residence information for\nall regions covered by US West. States includes Oregon, Washington,\nColorado, New Mexico, Arizona, Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, Utah, \nMinnesota, Nebraska, Iowa, North Dakota, and South Dakota.\n\nHave have two CDROM disks, one for June 1992, the other for Oct. 1992.\n\nIf you are interested, make an offer, thanks.", "\n\n\n\nTry .exe /s (/s for save screen, /c for config, defaults to /c)\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nThe question is not \"If a tree falls in the forest and no one sees or hears,\ndid it fall?\" but rather \"How many koalas can that one tree take out???\"\n---------------------------------------------------------------tim@cpsg.com.au--\n--\n\n\nTim Fox\nCP Software Pty Ltd. (ACN 006 640 133) Ph: +61-3-823-0222\n19 Cato Street, East Hawthorn, Fax: +61-3-822-0089\nVictoria, Australia, 3123 ACSnet: tim@cpsg.com.au", "#\n#I'm trying to write some code that lets me draw lines and do rubber-band\n#boxes in Motif/X. I'm running on an 8-bit display for which I've created a\n#colormap and am using almost all of the colors. I want to draw the lines\n#in a drawing area widget -- a widget in which I'm displaying a bitmap using\n#XPutImage(). If doesn't matter if the lines I draw interactively stay\n#around when the window is refreshed.\n#\n#Currently, to draw interactively, I begin with:\n#\n# /* drawIndex is an colortable index I reserve for the Foreground */\n# /* my_default_bg_color is the color index for the background of my image */\n# palette_colors[drawIndex].red = palette_colors[my_default_bg_color].red;\n# palette_colors[drawIndex].green = palette_colors[my_default_bg_color].green;\n# palette_colors[drawIndex].blue = palette_colors[my_default_bg_color].blue;\n# XStoreColors( myDisplay, my_cmap, &palette_colors[DrawIndex], 1);\n# XFlush( myDisplay);\n#\n# XSetFunction( myDisplay, gc, GXxor);\n# XSetForeground( myDisplay, gc, drawIndex);\n#\n#Then to draw I do:\n#\n# XDrawLine( myDisplay, XtWindow( drawingArea1), gc, x1, y1, x2, y2);\n# XFlush( myDisplay);\n#\n#And when I'm all done, to return things to normal I do:\n#\n# XSetFunction( myDisplay, gc, GXcopy);\n#\n#\n#What I'd like to happen is for the lines I draw to be the inverse of\n#whatever I'm drawing over. Instead what happens is I get white lines. If\n#the lines are over a white background - nothing shows up. If the lines are\n#over a black area - nothing shows up! It's very strange. But the GXxor\n#function seems right - since if I do a rubber-banding box, it erases and\n#redraws itself correctly (ie. not disturbing the underlying image).\n#\n#Any suggestions what I'm doing wrong?\n#\n\nI believe for this to work on a color display you must set the foreground of\nthe GC to be (foreground^background).\n\nPatrick L. Mahan\n\n--- TGV Window Washer ------------------------------- Mahan@TGV.COM ---------", "\nStacker achieves better compression ratio than DOS6, yet the\nlatter comes with virus detection, memory manager, and multiple\nbooting. Each of them are not so good as the NAV, QEMM or NDOS\nin my opinion, but with a package of only $45, it's nice if\nhaven't yet installed all of those stuffs.\n\nBoth certainly work with Win31.", "I am trying to obtain a HI-FI copy of Guns N' Roses pay per view last\nsummer from Paris. If anyone has a copy they would like to sell, or\ncould make me a copy, please e-mail me. Thanks\n", "Hi folks,\n\nCan anyone give me some information, the location of some\ninformation, or some reference material for the following\nfile formats: WIFF, MO;DCA/IOCA, PCX.\n\nIf this is not quite the appropriate place to ask such\nquestions, please let me know a more appropriate one and\naccept my apologies in advance.\n\nThanks for your help,", "\n[... other info deleted ...]\n\n\nAre you sure it's not a problem caused by software? I've seen this sort \nof effect when a runaway program (which could be caused by an INIT \nconflict, for instance) accidentally wacks on a register in the video \nhardware. Have you tried booting with no extensions and then letting the \nQ950 just sit there in the Finder? You might also want to try changing to \n24-bit addressing (yes, I know you can't access your full 64 MB of RAM - \nit's just an experiment) as the video hardware registers can't be accessed \nthen.\n\nAnother thing to try as a 'recovery' measure is to use something like \nQuickKeys to change the pixel depth of the display. This reprograms (some \nof) the video hardware registers and may allow sync to be restored.", "If you're willing to do a little work, you can make DrawnButtons do what you\nwant, more-or-less. One of my colleagues here at GE CRD has done just that\nin our internal LYMB system.\n\nWe have a matrix transform class that makes it easy to compute a series of\ndial positions from a single set of vectors. Each set of vectors is then\ndrawn into a pixmap. Clicking the button advances the knob's state and\nchanges to the next pixmap in the sequence.\n\nUsing DrawnButtons obviously still constrains you to taking up a rectangular\nportion of the parent widget, but that's normally not a big shortcoming. You\ncan make things look circular enough.\n", "I'm a mac user who wants to use some of the rayshade models I've built\nusing macrayshade (rayshade-M) with Stratavision 3d. Since Stratavision\ncan import many different model files I thought this would be a cinch...\nbut I haven't been able to find a simple translator that will work on the\nmac. Any ideas?\n\nStratavision 3d should be able to import:\n\nDXF\nMiniCAD\nSuper 3d\nSwivel 3d professional\n\nout of the box and:\n\nRIB\nIGS\n\nwith externals.\n\nAlso, if anyone knows of any other translator externals available for\nStratavision 3d (esp. Rayshade!) please e-mail me!\n\nBTW, I'm going to send mail to the rayshade usrs mailing list tomorrow (I\nmisplaced the address) but since most users of rayshade do not seem to\noperate with macs, I'm not getting my hopes up...\n\nthanks in advance,", "This is normal behavior for these drives (and many other models). The drive\nis doing a recalibration -- adjusting for temperature changes. If you leave\nthe machine on the frequency of the recalibrations goes way down.\n", "COMPUTER HARDWARE\n \t ( all are working fine last time checked ) \n\nTandy 360k external floppy drive with cable (hardly used)\n ..................... $70 \n\n\n-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-\n\n\n SOFTWARE\n\t ( all software include original manual ) \n\t ( some even with registeration card. )\n\nPer$onal Financial Accountant \n - financial statements\n - balance sheet\n - income & expense\n - etc ... ......................... $8\n\nAinsworth Keyboard Trainer (typing teacher) ............. $8\n\nEasy Working Tri-Pack (includes following ... )\n - Filer -- database to store all kinds of information\n - Planner -- Spreadsheet \n - Writer -- an easy to use word processor\n - great for simple calculations, work processing..etc.\n .................. $8\n\n\n-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-\n\n\n BOOKS\n\n\nInside the Norton Utilities, Revised and Expanded\n\n - by Brady Books\n - authored by Rob Krumm\n - Introduction by Peter Norton, maker of Norton utilities\n - Includes detachable Quick Reference Card to Norton utilities\n - shows you how to get the most from\n * The Norton Utilities - Standard Edition \n * The Norton Utilities - Advanced Edition \n * Norton Commander (1.0 - 3.0)\n * Norton Editor\n * Norton Disk Doctor\n * Plus the Peter Norton On-Line Guides\n - \"The only book that does full justice to the power and\n variety of all the Norton Utility software\" - Peter Norton\n - Price originally was $24.95\n asking .................................. $14.95\n\nTurbo Pascal Express revised (one disk)\n - 250+ ready-to-run assembly language routines that make\n turbo pascal faster, more powerful, and easier to use\n - equipment determination routines and access to expanded memory\n - extensive keyboard and mouse input functions\n - extremely fast video facilities, including text-graphics\n routines for fancy menus and windows\n - routines for bit operations and data compression\n - routines for elaborate printer control, formatting, and\n error recovery\n - powerful routines for searching directory trees and displaying\n tree diagrams\n - detailed information about writing other assembly routines for \n assembly language programmers\n - original price was $39.95\n asking ........................ $22.95\n\nHard Disk Power w/ The Jamsa Disk Utilities (two disks)\n - complete guide to hard disk efficiency\n - power techniques for maximum PC performance\n - understand how your hard disk works - beneath the surface\n - original price was $39.95\n asking ........................ $22.95\n \n-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-\n\n\n * Prices does not include shipping\n * Prices are negotiable\n\n\tPlease contact Jian at 1(317)495-3732 or \n\tE-mail to JLZ@SONATA.CC.PURDUE.EDU (preferred)\n\tif you are interested.\n", "Hi all,\n\nI've read the FAQ, I've fiddled around, but I am still having problems getting\nmy poor old HP9000/300 to let me input/display characters above 127. I have \nthe following in my .Xdefaults:\n\nXTerm*Font : -adobe-courier-bold-r-normal--14-140-75-75-m-90-iso8859-1\n\nSo I believe that I have the correct font selected to use in xterm. I have NOT\nset my LC_CTYPE environment variable because whatever I put it, it tells me that\nthat locale is not supported (apparently we have no additional locales defined,\nor at least, /lib/locale doesn't exist). I can get some of the characters\nabove 127 to print out, but they are not where I'd expect them -- for example,\nAlt-v does not produce a u umlaut. This leads me to believe that the fault\nlies with the stty settings, which are as follows:\n\nspeed 9600 baud; line = 0; susp ; dsusp \nintr = ^C; quit = ^\\; erase = ^H; kill = ^K; swtch = ^@\neof = ^D; eol = ^@; min = 4; time = 0; stop = ^S; start = ^Q\n-parenb -parodd cs8 -cstopb hupcl cread -clocal -loblk -crts \n-ignbrk -brkint -ignpar -parmrk -inpck -istrip -inlcr -igncr icrnl -iuclc \nixon -ixany ixoff -ienqak \nisig icanon iexten -xcase echo echoe echok -echonl -noflsh \nopost -olcuc onlcr -ocrnl -onocr -onlret -ofill -ofdel -tostop \n\nAnyway, I've struggled with this off and on for a couple of weeks, and any help\nanyone could offer would be greatly appreciated.\n\n\n\t\t\t\t\tThanks!", "Hi!\n\nWhen posting Winmark results, it is a good idea to give the version of \nWinBench that you used to obtain the scores, as well as the resolution that\nyou tested and the version of the drivers.", "Well, we got some responses and are doing some interviews with interesting\nresponders. However, just in case the other posting was overlooked by an\nincredibly talented person ... Mea Culpa for posting this here for Mike,\nbut we're looking for someone special:\n\n Tandem Computers is currently looking for a software wizard to help\n us architect & implement a fault-tolerant generalized instrumentation\n subsystem as part of our proprietary operating system kernel (TNS\n Kernel). The TNS Kernel is a proprietary, loosely-coupled parallel,\n message-based operating system. The TNS Kernel has wide connectivity\n to open standards.\n In this key individual contributor role, you will work with other\n developers working on various components of the Transaction Management\n Facility.\n Your background needs to encompass some of the following 4 categories\n (3 of 4 would be excellent):\n Category 1. Math: Working knowledge of statistics, real analysis, as\n used in experimental physics or chemistry, or in engineering.\n Category 2. Working knowledge of telemetry issues-- i.e. time series,\n autocorrelation, and statistical correlation of data streams.\n Category 3. Integration & Test -- Instrumentation of systems under test,\n i.e. payloads, flight modules, etc.\n Category 4: Software Engineering: programming skills, algorithms, and\n systems software techniques.", "A very kind soul has mailed me this reply for the bugs in CView.\nSince he isn't in the position to post this himself, he asked me to post\nit for him, but to leave his name out. So here it comes:\n\nCView has quite a number of bugs. The one you mention is perhaps the most\nannoying, but not the most dangerous. As far as I can determine, it has to\ndo with the temp files that CView creates. CView gives the user no control\nover where it places its temp files: it just places them in its\n\"current directory\". The problem you mention occurs (as far as I can tell)\nwhen it runs out of disk space for its temp files. It seems as if CView\ndoesn't check properly for this situation. As Cview decodes a jpeg, it seems \nto write out a temp file with all the pixel data with 24 bit colour\ninformation. Then, for 8 bit displays, it does the \"dithering\", again writing\nanother file with the 8 bit colour information. While it is writing this\nsecond file, it also writes the data to your colour card. Then when it does\nthe last chunk of 8 bit data, it recopies all the data from the 8 bit file to\nyour screen again. (It does this last \"recopy\" operation for its\n\"fit to screen\" feature, even when this feature is not enabled.)\n\n The result of this process is the following:\n \n 1) If it runs out of disk space when writing the first 24 bit file, all\n you ever see is as much data as it has room for, and the last bit of\n data is simply repeated over and over again because CView never\n realizes the disk has filled up and disk writes/reads aren't performed.\n\n 2) If it has enough room for the 24 bit data, but runs out of room for\n the 8 bit data, you see almost all of the picture as it does the\n dithering and writes to the screen card.\n However, then when it finishes the dithering and recopies the data\n from the 8 bit file to screen (for whatever reason it does this)\n one again just gets a repetition of the last chunk of data for which\n there was room on the disk.\n\nThis is just a guess, but probably fairly accurate. At least the general\nidea is on track I think, although I have probably made errors in details\nabout file I/O etc. The way around this is of course to clear up sufficient\ndisk space. The temp files for large JPEG's (1200x900 and bigger) can be\nvery large (3 Meg + 1 Meg ). On some of the largest I have needed in excess\nof 6 Meg free disk space.\n\n\nCView has a much more serious bug: if you are trying to display a file from\na floppy, and you change floppies while CView has some temp file open on the\nfloppy, then CView in certain circumstances will write the directory (and FAT\ntable? I can't remember) for the removed floppy onto the newly inserted\nfloppy, thus corruptimg the new floppy in a very serious, possibly\nunrevcoverable way. SO BE CAREFUL! It is incredibly poor programming for a\nprogram to do this. On the other hand, when choosing files in the Open Files\nmenu, CView insists on doing a few disk reads every time one moves the\nhi-lighter square. Incredibly annoying when it could do them all at once\nwhen it gets the directory info. And really, how much effort does it take to\nsort a directory listing?\n", "There is another useful method based on Least Sqyares Estimation of the sphere equation parameters.\n\nThe points (x,y,z) on a spherical surface with radius R and center (a,b,c) can be written as \n\n (x-a)^2 + (y-b)^2 + (z-c)^2 = R^2\n\nThis equation can be rewritten into the following form: \n\n 2ax + 2by + 2cz + R^2 - a^2 - b^2 -c^2 = x^2 + y^2 + z^2\n\nApproximate the left hand part by F(x,y,z) = p1.x + p2.x + p3.z + p4.1\n\nFor all datapoints, i.c. 4, determine the 4 parameters p1..p4 which minimise the average error |F(x,y,z) - x^2 - y^2 - z^2|^2.\n\nIn 'Numerical Recipes in C' can be found algorithms to solve these parameters.\n\nThe best fitting sphere will have \n- center (a,b,c) = (p1/2, p2/2, p3/2)\n- radius R = sqrt(p4 + a.a + b.b + c.c).\n\nSo, at last, will this solve you sphere estination problem, at least for the most situations I think ?.", "\n\nWhy don't you start with the spec-sheet of the ISA bus first?\nYou can quote SCSI specs till you're blue in the face, but if they\nexceed the ISA bus capability, then what's the point?\n\nWho says IDE is limited to 5 megs/sec? What about VLB-IDE? Does anyone\nknow how they perform?\n\n\nAs implimented on what system? \n\n\nGiven the original question (SCSI used only as a single hard drive\ncontroller), is it then necessary to get a SCSI drive that will do\nat least 5, maybe 10 megs/sec for the SCSI choice to make any sence?\nWhat does a 200-400 meg 5 megs/sec SCSI drive cost?\n\n\nThe original CGA cart back in '84 was $300. I think the original EGA card\n(or PGA?) was $800. SCSI has stood relatively alone in not coming down\nin price, mainly because we're talking about PC's and not Sun's or Sparc\nor SGI or (name your favorite unix workstation). That is, after millions\nof PC buying decisions over the years, SCSI has had plenty of time to\ncome down in price.", "re: majority of users not readding from floppy.\nWell, how about those of us who have 1400-picture CD-ROMS and would like to use\nCVIEW because it is fast and it works well, but can't because the moron lacked\nthe foresight to create the temp file in the program's path, not the current\ndidrectory?\n\n", "\nWhat is the copyright status of this data? Are there restrictions regarding the\nuses they can be put to?\n\nKaveh\n\n", "If you're thinking of reactive polymers they're making ESD safe\ncontau\biners out of it. As far as being conductive goes anything with\na resistance less than 10 to the fouth\b\brth power ohms per cubic measure\nis classed as conductive per MIL-STD-1686 for ESD protection. My $0.02\n($0.016 US).", "For Sale ...:\n \n Hewlett Packard DeskJet 500 inkjet printer.\n \n o Perfect condition both internally and externally\n o Comes with two FULL ink cartridges\n o Less than six months old\n o Comes with all original packaging, manuals, cables\n and software\n \n This is truly an excellent printer and is the low-cost\n alternative to a laser printer. It prints with the\n quality of a laser printer, but for a fraction of both\n the inital cost and he long term cost (that is,\n replacement of ink cartridges as opposed to replacement\n of toner). The printer prints at a maximum of 300*300\n (D)ots (P)er (I)nch (D.P.I.) on many different types\n and sizes of paper, including envelopes and\n transperencies. Printer prints in both landscape and\n portrait modes. Printer can accept up to two\n cartridges giving it things like more memory or\n additional fonts. Printer works excellently with\n Windows and DOS and brings TrueType to its full\n potential.\n \n I originally purchased the printer for $375.00. Make me\n an offer, but I would prefer to stay in the $300.00\n range. I will pay the shipping to anywhere in the \n continental U.S.A.\n \n If you are interested, please either leave me email or\n call Kirk Peterson at (303) 494-7951 anytime.\n \n Thanks!\n \n", "Does anyone know how to decode the color information of a NTSC signal ?\n\nI need to convert this data to RGB for a Video Capture Utility I am \nwriting for use with an IBM M-MOTION Video adapter card...\n\nI need to know the how the V and U signals work in the color process.\n\nThanks in advance for any information or algorythms etc.", "From: sam.halperin@cccbbs.uceng\n\n\n\n\n\n486 DX 50 mHz in Zero Insertion Force Socket\nEmpty over-drive socket\nEISA motherboard with 256k cache\n-->2 32 bit EISA Slots\n-->2 32 bit VESA local bus slots\n-->4 16 bit ISA slots\n8 MB 70ns RAM\n-->8 SIMMS sockets filled with 1mb strips (0 sockets open)\n32 bit EISA IDE hard drive controller\n330 Meg IDE hard disk drive w/ 64k cache (12ms)\nDiamond Viper Weitek 9000 VESA local bus graphics card w/ 2mb\n15\" MAG MX15F monitor\n2 Serial(NS16550AFN UART), 1 parralell & 1 game ports\nFull tower case\n-->250 Watt power supply\n-->5 X 5.25\" bays\n-->2 X 3.5\" bays\n-->2 X Hard Drive bays\n1.2MB 5.25\" & 1.33MB 3.5\" Floppy Drives\nEnhanced 101 key keyboard\nHi-Resolution 400 DPI Serial Mouse\nMS DOS 5.0 and MS Windows 3.1 or newer\n\n AMI BIOS\n Joint Data Motherboard\n 30 Day Money Back Gaurantee\n Unconditional 2 Year Parts Warranty\n Lifetime Labor Warranty\n One year Nationwide on site service\n\n\nThis system is currently availble from Comtrade, the company that\nwon some of the highest (over dell, gateway and IBM) awards in\nrecent PC magazine reviews. Your price must be highly\ncompetitive, without sacrificing any of the quality standards\nlisted above.", "I'm looking for a Sharp 6220 or TI Travelmate 2000 for parts. Mine has\na bad RAM chip on the motherboard and I want to see what I can get for\nparts before sending it off to Sharp for repairs. If you have one,\ndrop me a line.\n\nAlso, I'm trying to set one up for a friend who needs to read his old\n5 1/4 inch diskettes. Anyone have the pinout of the diskette expansion\nconnector on the back of the 3.5 inch floppy box? \n\nIf you respond, please include a phone number. I can't always get through \nwith email.\n \nAs always, \n\nThanks,\n\nJim Lewczyk\n\n-- \nMailer address is buggy! Reply to: jiml@strauss.FtCollinsCO.NCR.com", "\nAnd I thought I knew a lot about serial devices. Perhaps I should just\nkeep my big mouth shut. Sorry.", "I'm wondering if it's possible to use radio waves to measure the\ndistance between a transmitter(s) and receiver?\n\nSeems to me that you should be able to measure the signal strength\nand determine distance. This would be for short distances (2000 ft),\nand I would need to have accuracy of 6 inches, or so.\n\nHow about measuring vertical distance as well, any chance - or am I getting\nridiculous?\n\nWhat frequencies would be best for this? Or does matter?\n\nSorry if I'm \"mucking up\" the network with one of those questions best\nanswered by Bill Willis via US Mail... and I apologize for not being\n\"tuned-in\" to electronics. :-)\n", "Anyone have experiences, good or bad, with replacing the MFM controller\nand drive with an IDE controller and drive in a Zenith 386/16? I had\nheard some rumors about bus mastering problems on some CPU board \nrevisions.\n", "\n\nYou are right but PLEASE DON'T DO THIS. It makes my brain hurt.\nUSPosition and USSize should ONLY be set if the USER specified the\nposition and size.\n\nYou say: \"Tom, don't blow a gasket, what's the harm?\"\n\nSome window managers do very different things (besides positioning the window)\nwhen they see USPosition rather than PPosition.\n", "\n\nMight the problem not be with the video monitor instead? Many of our\nmonitors, as they age, develop shadows on white and bright colors.\n", "\n: \tI was recently talking to a possible employer ( mine! :-) ) and he made a reference to a\n: 48-bit graphics computer/image processing system. I seem to remember it being called IMAGE or\n: something akin to that. Anyway, he claimed it had 48-bit color + a 12-bit alpha channel. That's\n: 60 bits of info--what could that possibly be for? Specifically the 48-bit color? That's 280\n: trillion colors, many more than the human eye can resolve. Is this an anti-aliasing thing? Or\n: is this just some magic number to make it work better with a certain processor.\n\n\n\tI'm pretty sure most industry strength image processing specific \nsystems (i.e. photo processing gear) use as much as 96 bits of color info.\nWhy? Why not, oversampling is never a bad idea especially if the\nhardware's only task is image manipulation, and profressional photographers\ndemand professional results.\n\n: \tAlso, to settle a bet with my roommate, what are SGI's flagship products? I know of\n: Iris, Indigo, and Crimson, but what are the other ones, and which is their top-of-the-line?\n: (sadly, I have access to none of them. Just a DEC 5000/25. Sigh.)\n\n\tStrange question, but anyway, there's the VGX line, the newer\nIndigo^2, and the Onyx systems are the new big boys on the block (you\ncan get a 24 processor system with twice the graphics performance of\na reality engine). There's more, but I don't have my handy \"periodic \ntable of sgi's\" on me...\n", "Yes, it is possible to add a second hard drive to a mac IIcx internally. This\nis definitely not a recommended procedure by Apple but I have done the equivalent to my CX after upgrading it to a Quadra 700. The power supply is still the\nstock CX's and it was able to power two Quantum LPS drives, a PLI SCSI \naccelerator, a Micron technologies 24 bit video board, Daystar QuickCache,\nNew Technologies Overdrive and 20 meg of RAM simultaneously.\n\nI added a new mount for the drive by attaching angle brackets to the drive\ntower. The internal SCSI cable was changed to a longer flat ribbon cable onto\nwhich I added an extra connector about midway. The final HD was internally\nterminated and the drive between the motherboard and final HD had its terminator resistor packs removed. Cooling has not been a problem and no SCSI problems\noccur with either the PLI SCSI chain or motherboard SCSI hooked into the two\ninternal hard drives.", "For sale: Precision drafting machine, Bruning OGP-0180. Solid\nolder model with spring-loaded counter balance; clamps on table. Without\nscales. For right handed person. $60/make offer, includes UPS/parcel post \npostage.\n\nI'm guessing that it's from the 1940s or 1950s, a period well known for \nexcellent drafting machine construction! :-)\nIt's built with real metal parts, not cheap modern plastic, and it's painted \nthe typical office grey popular in that period. It's smooth working, and \neach of the two \"arms\" on it measures roughly 24\". It has a dual clamp to \nenable you to clamp it on the edge or corner of a table.\n", "Does anyone have a list of the clock counts for pentium instructions --\nor know if the INTEGER mul is down to 1 tick?\n", "Check out a program called PC-Xview. I've used it before, and from\nwhat I can tell, it's exactly what you're looking for. Last I checked,\nyou should be able to find it for about $160 a copy.\n\n-Eric", ": I'm wondering if it's possible to use radio waves to measure the\n: distance between a transmitter(s) and receiver?\n: \n: Seems to me that you should be able to measure the signal strength\n: and determine distance. This would be for short distances (2000 ft),\n: and I would need to have accuracy of 6 inches, or so.\n: --------------------\nYou might try looking at whats available in laser locating systems. They\nwork best for close work( 1 mile and under).\n\nRF is used for much longer distances in two major modes. Transponder and\nphase measurment. Transponder requires you send a pulse to another station\nand it returns it to you and you measure the round trip time minus the\nreceiver time.\n\nPhase measurements require two or more transmitting stations sending the\nsame frequency signal multiplexed in time. A receiver can pick them up and\nmeasure the phase shift between signals. Maps can be drawn that plot the\nLines of Position that correspond to a certain phase shift between two\nstations. ", "Hello,\ni'm interested in those devices too.\nCould also send me your suggestions.\nThank in advance.\nRegards.\n-- ", "Hi again!\n\n Okay, am getting an old AT type together as well.\nAnyone have a 16 bit MFM HDC they'd like to sell? WD is preferred, but\nAdaptec and DTK are fine too......for that matter, almost anything\nso long as it works!", "I have an old Mac Plus. A couple of years ago I bought a shiney new lc.\nIt came with apple's new keyboard (with abd ports). i replaced it with\na mac-pro-plus extended keyboard (which i thoroughly enjoy, thank you\nvery much).\n \nwell, i have this extra keyboard which i would like to use on the plus\nbut there's a little problem. the plus uses an rj-11 jack for keyboard\ninput and the new keyboards don't. i got an extra adb cable from my\nlocal apple dealer (they're such nice people), but they couldn't tell\nme the order of the wires.\n \nthere are four wires in the adb cables: black, white, red, tan. I know\none's a ground, one gets the serial signal, one supplies 5 volts, and\ni forgot what the fourth one does. anyway, if you hook them up wrong\nyou'll fry a board and i don't want to do .\n \nif any brave souls out there have done this before, please e-mail your\nexperience directly to me. i would greatly appreciate it especially\nsince apple's original keyboard is not . . . ergonomically correct.\n \nbtw, i did take apart my new keyboard to see if i could find the\ncorrelation between the wires for the rj-11 jack and the adb since it\nhas both, but no such luck (the connections are soldered inside of\nlittle boxes). Oh, well . . .\n \none more thing: in case you are thinking that the ABD ports on the\nnewer models are different from the connection used on the plus---\nyou're right. however, you can use the telephone cable from the plus\nand connect the mac-pro-plus keyboard via its own rj-11 jack. in\nother words, this little engineering feat i wish to do *is* possible.\nit's merely a matter of finding out the correct order.\n \nomt, when i get this to work, i definitely will post the solution\nso others can, too. thanx for the input.", "hello all- i have a problem with my micro solutions backpack- sometimes \nit works, sometimes it doesnt. i will either start a backup, or \nstart a tape format, and at about 20 percent i get an error either saying\nthe tape is bad or the backup/format has aborted for an unknown reason.\nif i turn everything off and wait a half hour it works fine. is it\nbecause the tape backup is too warm? has anyone had similar experiences?\n", "I would be interested in hearing from anyone who knows of good software for\nantenna simulation, particularly in source form suitable for Unix workstations\n(though good PC software would also be of interest).\nI'm aware of the numerous mininec mutations, and have been using MN for\nsome time now. I'm primarily interested in HF, VHF, and low UHF (< 500 MHz)\ndesigns, mostly wire antennas, but for thick wires and mesh surfaces as well\nas for your basic thin wire assumption.\nIs anything interesting happening with NEC itself? I've seen a version\nthat was mutilated to run (sort of) under Microsoft Fortran, but I'm not\nsure how many \"new and improved\" versions of the code might be out there\nsomewhere.\nI'd also be interested in non-NEC derivatives. The ones I've seen have\nbeen aimed at microwave applications, but if there is something out there\nuseful at the lower frequencies, I'd like to know about it.\nThanks,", "I would like to know if anyone has had any luck using the upper 128 ASCII\ncharacters on a Sun station. I am trying to convert a fortran program to run\non a Sun. When we write character buffers to the Sun which contain char(218)\nor char(196) or char(197) etc. We get characters on the screen but they are\nnot the characters in the standard ASCII tables.", ": ..continuing on my build problems, I got stuck here build xterm...\n: \n: gcc -fpcc-struct-return -o xterm main.o input.o charproc.o cursor.o util.o tabs.o screen.o scrollbar.o button.o Tekproc.o misc.o VTPrsTbl.o TekPrsTbl.o data.o menu.o -O2 -R/usr/wgep/X11R5.sos5/lib${LD_RUN_PATH+\\:$LD_RUN_PATH} -L../.././lib/Xaw -lXaw -L../.././lib/Xmu -lXmu -L../.././lib/Xt -lXt -L../.././extensions/lib -lXext -L../.././lib/X -lX11 -L/usr/wgep/X11R5.sos5/lib -lsocket -lnsl -ltermcap\n: Undefined first referenced\n: symbol in file\n: index /usr/ucblib/libtermcap.a(termcap.o)\n: rindex /usr/ucblib/libtermcap.a(termcap.o)\n: ld: fatal: Symbol referencing errors. No output written to xterm\n: *** Error code 1\n: make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `xterm'\n: \n: Any clues for help?\n\nEither:\n\t* Add -lucb -lelf to the list\n or\n\t* #define index() and rindex() to strchr() and strrchr() respectively.\n\t Both use same args. Former are bsd, latter are SysV.", "I wrote...\n\nand it has since turned out that all the mirror sites I looked at were \nfooled by a restructuring at the original site - zaphod.ncsa.uiuc.edu - \nand hence were in a mess. That and a pointer to 'imconv' should get\nme started. Ta muchly.\n\nCheers\n\tMarkus", "\n\n\nI can see high-voltage type display devices being vulnerable (CRTs,\nplasma displays, etc.) But Jason beat me to this question. What\nabout EM radiation from low-voltage items like LCD displays?", "I would like to know the regular/international phone number of a computer\nsupplier called \"Computer Component Source\". Their free phone number is\n1-800-356-1227. This number is no use to customers outside the US.\nI wish to upgrade the power supply on a couple of Mac Plus computers and would\nlike to make contact with \"Computer Component Source\".", " ^^^^^^^\nHuh! I though Beamers were IBM employees :-)", "I asked a question a week or so ago about getting more res. on my monitor. I have a Magnavox MagnaScan/17 and am wondering what video cards it supports. ALso, does anybody have Magnavox's EMail ID (if there is one) or maybe a phone number? Please reply by email as I don't read much news.\n\nThanks,\nSteve\n-- \n\n", "\n\n\nThe Sound Driver is pretty ok, since it's fast. Sound Manager used by the\nbook is *useless*. Disposing of sound channels as soon as sound has completed\nis out of the question for games with smooth animation. (It's too slow.)\n\nThe Sound Driver is so much snappier than Sound Manager. Unfortunately,\nSystem 7 supports it poorly, making programs crash occasionally.\n\n\nWell, I want my code to work on old systems too. I don't know about sys 7.1,\nbut at least on 6.0.7, there are bugs in the Sound Manager that causes\nchannels to hang (with no error message). This happends when I keep a\nchannel open for long periods - necessary for performance - and play many\nsounds, stopping sounds halfway. Callbacks seems not to be reliable.\nThen only way I can safely tell if a sound has stopped playing is to\ninspect private variables in the channel (QHead, I think it was), and the\nonly way I have found to tell if a channel is hung is to inspect an\n*undocumented* flag and modify it.\n\nAm I happy with this? Nope. I consider writing to SoundBase simply to get\nrid of the bugs.\n\nAny better suggestions? (Silent games is not among the acceptab|e solutions.)\n", "The BusLogic cards have an OS/2 2.0 driver that does work with the March 2.1\nbeta. Support for the BusLogic cards is not included with OS/2 2.0 any longer.\nIf you wish to install the beta from the CD/ROM, you will need to REM out the\nAdaptec device drivers, as they have a nasty tendency to crash the BusLogic\ncards when OS/2 attempts to use them. (Thanks Adaptec!) \n\nSo you add the BusLogic drivers to the config.sys on the CD-ROM boot disk, and\nREM out the Adaptec drivers.\n\nThen you install the whole 1st half of the Beta.. and it won't work! IBM\nnicely copies in the Adaptec drivers once again. (Thanks IBM!) So.. REM out\nthe Adaptec drivers once more.. and reboot. If you have everything in the\nright order.. it will work.\n\nThings are pretty smooth through the rest of the installation.. except OS/2\nwill try to install the Adaptec SCSI drivers once again at the end... so.. you\nare off to more REM statements and more fun. \n\nThe BT 542Bk comes with drivers and costs the same as the Adaptec cards that\ndo not come with drivers. The DOS drivers work great. This card can easily be\nconfigured to work with 8 different sets of I/O ports (and you can use\nmultiple host adapters in one machine) If you get a new card.. it will also be\nable to support up to 8 GB drives under DOS.\n\nHope this helps..\n\n- Dan\n\n", "\t[ ... Useful info about the Maxtor drive deleted ... ]\n\n\n\tHowever, Thad, you should note that he said that he would like to\nuse it on a 'PC', not 'UNIX-PC'. Also note the strange cross-posting (as he\nprobably did not), so it is not sure exactly what sort of machine he intends\nto mount it on. If it *is* a PC (or clone), then the \"2C\" jumper would be\nthe correct choice.\n\n\tI've left the cross-posting in effect, since I'm not sure which\nnewsgroup he would really be reading this in. :-)\n\n\tDoN.", "Has anyone else experienced problems with windows hanging\nafter the installation of DOS 6? I have narrowed the\nproblem down to EMM386.\n\nIf if remove (or disable) EMM386, windows is ok. If EMM386\nis active, with NOEMS, windows hangs. If I use AUTO with\nEMM386, the system hangs on bootup.\n\nDave.\n\n\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------\nDavid Clarke ...the well is deep...wish me well...\nac151@Freenet.carleton.ca David_Clarke@mtsa.ubc.ca clarkec@sfu.ca", "I don't know much about computers, so please bear with me. Here's my question:\n\nCONTEXT: I use a package called SLIP on my home computer to connect to the\n university mainframe (an IBM 3090 running VMS/MVS), and log on to my\n account. When I installed SLIP on my computer, I had to configure it\n for my modem (14.4 kbs Etronics internal) and had to supply the phone\n number to dial to reach the mainframe. The way it works now is that\n I type \"telnet uicvm\" or \"tn3270 uicvm\" (either will work) at the DOS\n prompt. UICVM is the node name of the mainframe. The program then\n dials the mainframe, establishes a protocol, and gives me the logon\n screen. \"TELNET\" and \"TN3270\" are the names of batch files in my SLIP\n directory. I have been told that a kermit protocol is used for the\n session.\n\nPROBLEM: I would like to be able to do all this under Windows 3.1 because I\n hardly ever use DOS directly. SLIP will not run under Windows. I\n talked to the people at our computer center, and they suggested that\n I use a packet driver called WINPKT.COM with SLIP. They gave me\n instructions on how to load it before I start Windows, and how to\n modify the TCPSTART and TCPSTOP batch files (in the SLIP directory)\n to ensure that it would work. I did all that and I could run SLIP\n from Windows, but there were other problems. For one thing, SLIP\n would not hang up the phone when I exited. I had to run my communi-\n cations program to hang up the phone or reboot the computer when\n that didn't work. For another, there were too many errors. It often\n took me 3-4 tries to connect to the mainframe. Our computer center\n does not support SLIP under Windows, so I can't keep going back to\n them with more questions.\n\nQUESTION: Is there some other SHAREWARE package that will run under Windows\n and do what SLIP is supposed to do? I need a package that is not too\n expensive, which is why I am looking for shareware. I have heard that\n there are regular commercial packages that do all this, but they cost\n hundreds of dollars. These are the main requirements:\n\n 1. Must be able to run under Windows 3.1\n 2. Must allow VT100 and IBM TN3270 terminal emulation\n 3. Must allow ftp file transfers, since that's the only kind the\n mainframe allows. No Y-modem or Z-modem etc. I believe the ftp\n transfers are made through a kermit protocol, but I'm hazy about\n that.\n\n A subsidiary feature (that would be nice to have) if it's a true\n Windows program (rather than a DOS program modified to run under\n Windows) is the ability to run the session in a window concurrently\n with other applications and to cut and paste between the telnet\n session and other applications.\n\nAny information received is appreciated.", "We are looking for a X client which can convert a xwd or a bitmap\nfile into a gif file for use on a Macintosh.\n\n\tThanks", "When I use telix (or kermit) in WIN 3.1, or use telix after exiting windows\nto dos, telix can not find the serial port. If you have some ideas on how\nto solve this problem or where I can find further information, send me email\nor send it to the news group. Thanks.\n\nDale Erickson \ndericks@plains.nodak.edu", "\n\nCan you say \"*expensive*\" ?\n", "PC Mag only got around 9-10 Winmarks when they tested the Steal 24. It sounds\nlike you are ok.\njamesc\n\n", "\nWhat is PAS16? Any articles (or reviews) describing it?\n\n--\nPenio Penev x7423 (212)327-7423 (w) Internet: penev@venezia.rockefeller.edu", "+--------------+ \n ||+----------+ | Are +-------------+\n ||| All The | | there | ===========+|\n ||| PC News | | any? |' Mac SE ||\n ||| That Fit | | | |' or ||\n ||| on TV | | | |' Classic ||\n ||+----------+ | v |' [68000] ||\n ||||||||||||||||=--+ +---------+ |'- - - - - -+|\n ++-------+++++++ +--+ Frame | +--------+ | ______::::::|\n | [video]'\"\"\"\"'|=--+ | Grabber | | Mac +---=| ------======|\n |________LLLLLL| | Board +---+ Vision | |||||||||||||||\n ~~ ~~ +=========+ +========+ |||||||||||||||\n _____________________________________________________________________\n\n I know of several NuBus frame-grabber boards but wonder if there\n might be similar ones for the lesser Macs (those without slots),\n something permitting instant freezing of a video picture (PAL) \n and feeding it in without jaggies to a simple digitizer like \n MacVision (which takes 22 secs to scan a picture, so a frame\n grabber is a necessity). \n\n The objective is 512*342 1bit/ pixel (B/W) pictures stored in\n HyperCard... have tried using top-quality VCR with freeze-frame\n function but the screens come out full of streaks and garbage.\n\n PLEASE reply ONLY to ----------> ianf@random.se\n and I'll summarize\n to the net (cannot\n read such high-volume\n group as is c.s.m.h) Thanks!\n", "Hey All-\n\nWe have an old (1990) external HD attached to the Plus in our lab. It had \ngiven us flawless service until last week. The problem: Someone in our lab \nhas an old 512 that was upgraded a couple years ago to a Plus with an \naftermarket SIMM/SCSI setup (Digigraphics \"SIMMer\"). the DB25 SCSI plug runs \nthrough the back of the machine and attaches to the board with a 26-pin \nrectangular connector. Well, this guy had removed the back from the machine, \nto put more memory in, and had disconnected the the SCSI plug. Since the \n26-pin connector is symmetrical (not keyed) he may have reinstalled it upside \ndown, essentially reversing the pins on the DB25. He came in and asked if he \ncould try out our HD on his SCSI port (it had never been used). Naive fools \nthat we are, we said o.k.. His computer failed to recognize the drive. Now, \nnone of the computers in our lab will recognize it. We tried Disk Doctor, and \nit doesn't recognize anything on the SCSI chain. Could installing the SCSI \nupside down have wrecked the HD's driver board? The drive seems to spin up \nall right and unpark itself upon powerup. The events are too coincidental to \nattribute the problem to stiction.\n\nAny help greatly appreciated-", "\nA friend of mine had the same problem, it turned out that his floppy was\nset up as a 5 1/4 1.2Mb drive instead of 3.5 1.44Mb.....\n\nmight help...\n\n\nMatt.\n\n-- ", "Hi out there!\n\nEvery command-line-shell-favourating user: Close your ears, ehm, eyes...\n\nI'm looking for a X file-manager which can be driven under TWM.\nSomebody told me last night, there is one under OpenWindows\n(and there certainly is one under MS-Windows :-#).\n\nBut I'd like an X-one, you know, with icon's, click-and-drag, directory-structures\nshown in a graphic-layout, a paper-basket etc. ...\n\nAnybody got an idea?\n\nPlease reply.\n\n _/ _/ _/_/_/ thSo - Thorsten Sommer, better known as:\n _/ _/ _/ Chiquita (Denn nur Chiquita ist Banane!)\n _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/ \n _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ e-mail: sommer@ips.cs.tu-bs.de\n _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ \n _/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/ \n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n Transform ... and roll out! (BigTruck - Transformers)", "I am making a search for a CAD program that does a decent job\nof making schematic drawings. The program needs to be in\nMS-DOS, Windows if possible.\n\nWhat I want the CAD program to do is to draw diagrams by\ndragging elements onto the screen, and in this the elements\nneeded are as diverse as vacuum tubes to ICs (case with pins).\nIt also needs to have provision for adding legends to the\ncomponents as well as their values. In other words I want to\nproduce quality drawings. Printout would be to either 24 pin\ndot-matrix and/or Laser Printer.\n\nIf you know of such a CAD program that is of reasonable cost,\nplease respond.\n\nFred W. Culpepper\nOLD DOMINION UNIVERSITY (Retired)\nfculpepp@norfolk.vak12ed.edu", "mile.\"\n\nRavi,\n\n\tIts not a good idea to have a horizontally formatted hard disk in a \nvertical position. If the drive is formatted in a horizontal position, it can \nnot completely compensate for the gravitational pull in a vertical position. \nI'm not saying that your hard disk will fail tomorrow or 6 months from now, but \nwhy take that chance? If you want more detailed info on the problem, please \nmail me at:===> sunnyt@dna.bchs.uh.edu <===. ", "I have a Practical Peripherals 9600sa (External) modem for sale.\nIt's been used less than 1 year and has a lifetime warranty. I've\nnever had a problem connecting to any site, something I can't say\nfor the noname or third tier modems. Original box and manuals.\n\n$150 (firm) Includes shipping anywhere in the Continental US.\n\nKen", "Window placement on screen\n--------------------------\n\nI would like to configure my system (a HP UNIX) to avoid that any corner\nof a given window is displayed outside of the visible screen. The whole\nwindow should be visible and it should be impossible to move any window\noutside the visible aerea.\n\n1. Can this be done by configuring the window manager's resources\n\n2. Can this be done on applikation level \n\n3. A hardcoded solution is possible, but is it possible to have a\n upper limit of a given window size\n", "Hello,\n\tI'm having problems printing SPANISH characters with WFW2. I was using the Celtic True type which has the accented characters, and used insert symbol to put in in the document. However, when I put it in the doc, I get a big square character, and then it prints out just the same (to my dismay, thinking that was just the way it worked).\nCan anyone tell me if and how they have printed Spanish characters? I know WP 5.1 has this built-in, but I do not recall ever seeing this option on WFW2. HELP!\n ------------------------------------------------------------------------\n | Robert S. Dubinski | Aliases include: Robb, Regal, Sir, Mr., and I |\n ------------------------------------------------------------------------\n | Marquette University ||||||||||| Math / Computer Science Double-Major|\n ------------------------------------------------------------------------\n | Internet Address: 2A42Dubinski.vms.csd.mu.edu |\tMilwaukee, WI |", "\"Computer Friends\" nubus card - good for doing graphics overlays on\nyour videos etc. $275 with apple 8 bit vid card, $225 without. Wont\nsell vid card separately. UPS (U pay shipping).\ncheers\nMike.\n", "Hello,\n\nBelow I have the copy of some source I am using to setup a user-specified color-\nmap for X R11 V4. I am attempting to create user defined colors in terms of\nRGB color ranges. The calls to XAllocColor prove ineffective. \n\nVariables are defined are as follows:\n\n int i, j, k, lut_index\n color_type min_image, max_image;\n color_type image Pixel_Value_Range, last_image, start, end, jump,\n lut [ 512 ];\n unsigned long pixel;\n double red, green, blue;\n\n/*\n * Data structure used by color operations\n *\ntypedef struct {\n unsigned long pixel;\n unsigned short red, green, blue;\n char flags; /-* do_red, do_green, do_blue *-/\n char pad;\n} XColor;\n***************/\n XColor rgbcolor, hardwarecolor;\n\n\nWith color_type defined as { double red, double green, double blue }.\n\nWhat I need to know is how to set [is it possible] the values in hardwarecolor\nto work within the call to XAllocColor:\n\n start.red = (int) 255 * min_image.red;\t/* 0..255 */\n end.red = (int) 255 * max_image.red;\t/* 0..255 */\n jump.red = (int) (( end.red - start.red ) / 7);\n\n start.green = (int) 255 * min_image.green; /* 0..255 */\n end.green = (int) 255 * max_image.green; /* 0..255 */\n jump.green = (int) (( end.green - start.green ) / 7);\n\n start.blue = (int) 255 * min_image.blue; /* 0..255 */\n end.blue = (int) 255 * max_image.blue; /* 0..255 */\n jump.blue = (int) (( end.blue - start.blue ) / 7);\n\n lut_index = 0;\n for (i=0; i<8; i++)\n for (j=0; j<8; j++)\n for (k=0; k<8; k++)\n {\n if ( i == 0 || jump.red < 1 )\n lut [ lut_index ].red = start.red;\n else\n lut [ lut_index ].red = jump.red * i - 1;\n\n if ( j == 0 || jump.green < 1 )\n lut [ lut_index ].green = start.green;\n else\n lut [ lut_index ].green = jump.green * j - 1;\n\n if ( k == 0 || jump.blue < 1 )\n lut [ lut_index ].blue = start.blue;\n else\n lut [ lut_index ].blue = jump.blue* k - 1;\n\n hardwarecolor.red = (short) lut [ lut_index ].red;\n hardwarecolor.green = (short) lut [ lut_index ].green;\n hardwarecolor.blue = (short) lut [ lut_index ].blue;\n hardwarecolor.pixel = lut_index;\n\nprintf(\"HW1: i = %d : %d %d %d: pixel = %d \\n\", lut_index, hardwarecolor.red,\n hardwarecolor.green, hardwarecolor.blue, hardwarecolor.pixel );\n\n status = XAllocColor ( dpy, colormap, &hardwarecolor );\nprintf(\"HW2: i = %d: %d %d %d: pixel = %d \\n\", lut_index, hardwarecolor.red,\n hardwarecolor.green, hardwarecolor.blue, hardwarecolor.pixel );\n if ( status != 0 )\n {\n XSetForeground ( dpy, gc, hardwarecolor.pixel );\n XFillRectangle ( dpy, win, gc, 1, 1, MAXCOLUMN, MAXROW );\n XFlush ( dpy );\n sleep (10);\n printf(\"%d: %f %f %f at %d \\n\", lut_index, lut [ lut_index ].re\n lut [ lut_index ].green, lut [ lut_index ].blue,\n hardwarecolor.pixel );\n }\n lut_index = lut_index + 1;\n }\n\nThanks in advance to anyone who can help me with this problem.\n\nSincerely,\n\n\tJohn F. Duggan\n", "I've got an old demo disk that I need to view. It was made using RIX Softworks. \nThe files on the two diskette set end with: .scf\n\nThe demo was VGA resolution (256 colors), but I don't know the spatial \nresolution.\n\nFirst problem: When I try to run the demo, the screen has two black bars that \ncut across (horizontally) the screen, in the top third and bottom third of the \nscreen. The bars are about 1-inch wide. Other than this, the demo (the \nanimation part) seems to be running fine.\n\nSecond problem: I can't find any graphics program that will open and display \nthese files. I have a couple of image conversion programs, none mention .scf \nfiles.\n\nThe system I am using: 486clone, Diamond Speedstar 24, Sony monitor.\n\nAny suggestions?", "Stupid question from a new IBM PC user:\n\nI'm going to be selling my Mac and getting a Gateway 2000.\n\nWhat is the difference between IDE HD and SCSI HD?\n\nThe GW 486DX-33V comes with a 250MB Western Digital IDE drive.\nI asked how much more for the Seagate 500MB SCSI drive.\n\nThe guy asked me \"Why are you going with SCSI?\". I was lost for an answer.\nI just said \"I know Seagate better as a company, from a satisfaction point\nof view\".\n\nAre SCSI drives faster than IDE? I'm not buying my GW for another 4 months\nor so, but this is a question that has bugged me for a while.", "\nNanao's F-Series (e.g. F550i) and T-Series (e.g. T660i) monitors\nare MPR-II compliant. According to my little pamphlet, the T-Series\nmonitors are also TCO-compliant, whatever that is.\n", "I have a Tseng labs video card that gives me problems when I do anything in \nsuper VGA mode. CHECKIT v3.0 reports a Video Page Frame Address Error at \nPage Frame #7. What does this mean and how (if I can) could this be fixed?\nThe card Says ET4000Ax on it.", "I have this used equipment for sale, everything is negotiable!\n\n1200 Baud Compuadd Internal Modem, all docs and software $ 25.00\n\nSCO UNIX V3.2.2 All disks and Docs (Has UUCP/all Utils) $150.00\n\nOld 1.2MB floppy drive, functional, out of an old 286. $ 20.00\n\nDead ST1196 80MB RLL drive, don't know whats wrong with it. $ 20.00\n\nOld Joystick, don't remember the brand name $ 10.00\n\nOld Boat Anchor CGA Monitor with full length CGA CArd $ 20.00\n\nSerial Card 25 Pin $ 10.00\n\nTest Drive III Accolade $ 20.00", "\nI have several questions:\n\n1) What do I gain with this new BIOS?\n\n2) How can I save a copy of my old BIOS in case I want to go back?\n\n3) How do I install the new BIOS?\n\nI'd like to enjoy, but need answers first.\n\nThanks\n\n\n-- ", "Hello,\n\n\tI am admin for an RS/6000 running AIX 3.2, X11R5, Motif, and xdt3.\n\tI want to prevent the user from hitting CNTL-ALT-BKSPC to exit X.\n\t\n\tI've tried invoking X with 'xinit -T', but that doesn't work.\n\txinit appends the -T to the call to .xinitrc, and not to the\n\tcall to X. \n\n\tThe man page to xinit is no help. In fact, it tells\n\tme that xinit is a script when it is really a binary file. \n\n\tSo far, the only way I've been able to accomplish this feat is\n\tto add the -T to the call to X in /usr/lpp/X11/defaults/xserverrc.\n\tI would rather not do it this way. Does anyone have any other ideas?\n\n \n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n Brian DeFord\t\t\t\tInternet: deford@netwrx1.nw1.com\t\n Open Networks, Inc.\t\t\tUsenet: uunet!netwrx1!deford\n 11490 Commerce Park Dr. #205\t\tTel: 703-648-0013\n Reston, VA 22091\t\t\tFAX: 703-648-0016\n\n\t\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n", "\nbox, manual, phonecord $25 + shipping\nDennis\n", "I bought this chip from Suncoast Technology and tried to build their\ndtmf decoder circuit. But it's not working...\n\nIf anyone has the pinouts and possibly the voltage specs I'd sure\nappreciated it. If someone could fax, email, or snail mail a copy\nof the spec sheet for this chip that would be even better. :)\n\nPlease email me if you can help. \n\nThanks in advance,\n-- \nMont Pierce", "Greetings!\n \n HP 20s forsale.\n comes with case\n no manuals\n excellent condition\n \n asking for $13.00\n\n If interested, please E-mail today.", "I am setting up a video-aid for a computer room for the teacher to share his\ndisplay with the class.\n\nI have seen people using video projector, TV sets and large monitor to do\npresentations before. I am told that there are three ways to connect video\nprojector: composite, Y/C & RGB.\n\nCan anyone explain to me the difference and their likely costs?\n\nPlease reply to my INETNET E-mail account as well as posting in bulletin:\nu129008@sparc20.nuc.edu.tw\n\nI also like to know if there are TELNET or KERMIT for windows.", "\n\n\nNo, this is wrong. The purpose is to preserve the substances in\nthe tubes longer by creating relativistic speeds and thus\ntime dilatation. Of course, by slowing the subjective time of\nthe test tubes they get less bored, which is probably what you\nwere thinking of.", "Pioneer VSX-501 Audio/Video Receiver\n\n-Dolby Pro Logic Surround, 3CH Logic\n-Studio and Simulated Surround Playback\n-Video Signal Selector (Simulcast function)\n-Two-way VCR Copying and Monitoring\n-Acoustic Memory Function\n-Custom Memory Function\n-Sleep Timer\n-Multi-Room Remote Jack\n-AV Remote Control Unit\n\nLess than one year old. Excellent shape. $300 firm.", "\nBattery powered devices like the PowerBook are sometimes more sensitive to \nserial port weirdness. I had trouble with connecting my Mac Plus to an HP 95LX\nhandheld. Everything else worked okay on that port, but not the HP. (it runs\non two penlite batteries). It turned out that the plus (by accident or by \ndesign flaw?) was putting a 4 volt bias on the serial port that was doing \nweird things to the HP (which has only 3v dc!). The HP worked fine when \nconnected to the printer port. \n\nDoes your PB screen get dim or anything when connected to the device? Have you \ntried using the printer port?\n\nGood luck. \n\n--jamie\n", "My CorelDRAW 3.0.whatever write SCODL files directly. Look under File|Export\non the main menu. ", "The color of the board shows the composition of it, hence the use of it.\n\nOriginal and older boards were bakelite composition, and were brown.\nPhenolic (spelling) was a tan\nMost \"non filled\" fiberglass boards used in computers are green.\nFilled fiberglass is blue.\nTeflon is white.\n\nAs boards evolved more and more demands were made of them. First boards were\nused mainly in audio circuitry. Couldn't be used in high voltage or RF because\nit would arc and burn. Most boards today are fiberglass, the type being chosen\nby its use and cost. \n\nBoards in satellite and microwave communication are teflon (and ceramic) as the\nfiberglass, and other boards are conductive (they actually work more as a \ncapacitive dialectric, but the word conductive simplifies explaination) at the\nhigh frequencies.\n\nAnother printed circuit material used mainly in automotive and interconnections\nis a thin flexible (mostly mylar) material and is used to connect the front of\nthe vehicle (etc) to the back instead of wiring harnesses. Camcorders use this\nto intereconnect the boards inside where wires would be a nuisance.\n\nAm working on a generator made by Hewlet Packard right now and the entire board\nis gold plated, boy it looks expensive!!!\n\nHope I got most of my facts right as I am working from memory of material read.\n\nMy education was pre-transister!\n-- \n73, Tom\n================================================================================\nTom Wagner, Audio Visual Technician. Malaspina College Nanaimo British Columbia\n(604)753-3245, Loc 2230 Fax:755-8742 Callsign:VE7GDA Weapon:.45 Kentucky Rifle\nSnail mail to: Site Q4, C2. RR#4, Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada, V9R 5X9 ", "From: push@media.mit.edu (Pushpinder Singh)\nSubject: re: Centris 610 Video Problem - I'm having it also!\nDate: Sat, 17 Apr 1993 03:17:45 GMT\n \n \nI'm having exactly the same problem. Again, it's fine when I switch to 16\ncolors or a smaller monitor. My configuration is:\n \nModel: Centris 610 with 4 MB/80 HD, 512 VRAM, no cards\nMonitor: MAG MX15F with 16\" monitor adaptor (for resolution of 832*624)\n \nI just discovered the problem a little while ago after plugging in my\nnew MAG monitor. It seems to appear either when scrolling through a\nwindow or when using Alpha or Word and I enter .\n \nMy guess is bad VRAMs as well. I really hope it isn't a design flaw. Is\nanyone at Apple listening?\n \nPushpinder Singh\npush@media.mit.edu\n \n***********************************\n\n Try finding an init called Basic color monitor. This should clear\nup some probs with Centris 610's and vga type monitors. I know it\nexists, somewhere I have a binhexed copy, but I don't know where and\nnever got around to installing it. I have this problem on my sony 1604.", "I have the following games for sale/trade. Make an offer.\n\nTrouble Shooter\nWhere in Time is Carmen Sandiego?\n\n-- \nbrian\noplinger@ra.crd.ge.com", "I need help in creating my 4x4 perspective matrix. I'd like to use this for\ntransforming x, y, z, w in some texture mapping code I got from Graphics Gems\nI. I have many books which talk about this, but none of them in simple plain\nenglish. If you have Graphics Gems I, I'm talking about page 678.\n\nI'd like to have a perspective matrix that handles different field-of-views\nand aspect of course. Thank's for your help.\n\n-- \nYes, of course everything I say is my personal opinion!", "\nAMD recent won the appeal against Intel to use their Microcode, so they \nshould be putting out real 486 chips in the near future.", "I've noticed a recent proliferation of 1 gig SCSI-2 3.5\" drives, in\nparticular, the Fujitsu 2694 and the Micropolis 2112. There is also the\nMaxtor LXT1240s (6100 rpm, 1.2 gig) drive. They are all quite cheap,\nand have nice 3-5 year warranties. \n\nMy questions are: Is there a catch?\n Which one is better?\n What type of SCSI-2 do these drives use?\n Is the service generally better for one of these \n \n manufacturers?\n Are prices likely to go down soon for any reason?\n\nthanks,", ": >>My friend recently purchased a LC III and he wants to know if there is\n: >>such a demon called NuBus adapter for his PDS slot? \n\n: > The LC family of Macs can only\n: > use PDS cards. They are not able to use NuBus.\n\n: Ah, but why? Can some technically-hip Macslinger tell us what the\n: difference is between PDS and Nubus? \n\n: Is it impossible to make a gadget that plugs into PDS and ends in a\n: Nubus card cage? At least, Marvin's friend has not been able to\n: locate one and neither have I. What is the fundamental reason for\n: this?\n\nI think that there do exist NuBus expansion cages (I'm sure I've seen\nthem advertised occassionally), but I think that the main problem is that\nthey cost much more than the difference in price between say a LC and IIvx\nso unless you need lots of NuBus slots its not worth the bother.\n\n(Of course, it may be that these extra boxes are so expensive because\nno one buys them because they are so expensive...)\n\nNuBus technology isn't a special Apple Proprietry thing (I have this\nsneaky feeling that it is licensed from Texas Instruments???) so there\nis no problem building an expansion box.\n\nThe difference between NuBus and PDS is that NuBus is a clever interface\nwith lots of neat toys built in to make sure that lots of cards can work\ntogether on the same computer. PDS (processor direct slot) is just that:\nhere are all the connections to the processor. You can do anything with\nthis and it is as quick as it can be, but there's no cooperation. You\nmay be able to get double PDS slot adaptors but you try plugging 2\nvideo cards in, and just watch them conflict! Of course, the extra \nelectronics in a NuBus slot makes it appreciably more expensive, so\nguess why Apple doesn't put it in it's cheaper machines?\n\nSo, yah pays yer money and yah takes yah choice.", "Is it possible to have xdm put up a multi-line greeting? If so, how do\nI specify such a thing in the Xresources file? I don't have much\n(anything) for X books, so I can't look it up. Thanks.\n\n\n-- \nMark Van Overbeke Systems Software Programmer\nComputing Services BITNET: Mark@UMNMOR.BITNET (VMS)\nUniversity of Minnesota, Morris INTERNET: Mark@caa.mrs.umn.edu (VMS) \nMorris, MN 56267 1-612-589-6378 mark@cda.mrs.umn.edu (Ultrix)", "Hello Netter,\n\n\tI want to uprade the power supply of my SE/30 in which \na 8 bit color card is installed.\nI know CRC COMPONENTS, Inc. deals the compatible power supply of SE/30\nmanifactured by POWER PLUS SYSTEMS.\nDoes anyone know their phone or FAX number of them ?\nPlease reply me by e-mail.\nThanks,", "**********************************************************************\n\n\t\t 2ND CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS\n\t\n NAVY SCIENTIFIC VISUALIZATION AND VIRTUAL REALITY SEMINAR\n\n\t\t\tTuesday, June 22, 1993\n\n\t Carderock Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center\n\t (formerly the David Taylor Research Center)\n\n\t\t\t Bethesda, Maryland\n\n**********************************************************************\n\nSPONSOR: NESS (Navy Engineering Software System) is sponsoring a \none-day Navy Scientific Visualization and Virtual Reality Seminar. \nThe purpose of the seminar is to present and exchange information for\nNavy-related scientific visualization and virtual reality programs, \nresearch, developments, and applications.\n\nPRESENTATIONS: Presentations are solicited on all aspects of \nNavy-related scientific visualization and virtual reality. All \ncurrent work, works-in-progress, and proposed work by Navy \norganizations will be considered. Four types of presentations are \navailable.\n\n 1. Regular presentation: 20-30 minutes in length\n 2. Short presentation: 10 minutes in length\n 3. Video presentation: a stand-alone videotape (author need not \n\tattend the seminar)\n 4. Scientific visualization or virtual reality demonstration (BYOH)\n\nAccepted presentations will not be published in any proceedings, \nhowever, viewgraphs and other materials will be reproduced for \nseminar attendees.\n\nABSTRACTS: Authors should submit a one page abstract and/or videotape to:\n\n Robert Lipman\n Naval Surface Warfare Center, Carderock Division\n Code 2042\n Bethesda, Maryland 20084-5000\n\n VOICE (301) 227-3618; FAX (301) 227-5753 \n E-MAIL lipman@oasys.dt.navy.mil\n\nAuthors should include the type of presentation, their affiliations, \naddresses, telephone and FAX numbers, and addresses. Multi-author \npapers should designate one point of contact.\n\n**********************************************************************\nDEADLINES: The abstact submission deadline is April 30, 1993. \nNotification of acceptance will be sent by May 14, 1993. \nMaterials for reproduction must be received by June 1, 1993.\n**********************************************************************\n\nFor further information, contact Robert Lipman at the above address.\n\n**********************************************************************\n\n\t PLEASE DISTRIBUTE AS WIDELY AS POSSIBLE, THANKS.\n\n**********************************************************************\n\n\nRobert Lipman | Internet: lipman@oasys.dt.navy.mil\nDavid Taylor Model Basin - CDNSWC | or: lip@ocean.dt.navy.mil\nComputational Signatures and | Voicenet: (301) 227-3618\n Structures Group, Code 2042 | Factsnet: (301) 227-5753\nBethesda, Maryland 20084-5000 | Phishnet: stockings@long.legs", "cica.indiana.edu pc/drivers the current version is 2.0\n", "\n\n\nIt would also be great for another reason - when not docked, it could serve\nas an ARA server to the large internal HD, your corporate email, etc. In\na pinch, you would also have two machines, instead of 1.5.\n\nIf they could couple that thought with RocketShare, and let you use both the\n'030 on the PB and the '040 on the dock, it would be a mighty powerful dock.\n\n-- ", "\nI ran in to this problem I while ago, and from what I remember you should use\nXtTranslateCoordinates etc. after realizing the main widget to calculate\nthe location of the popup, then use something like XtVaSetValues on the\npopup widgets before ever using them. Calling SetValues repeatedly (e.g.\nevery time something pops up) seems to be what slows you down. I never\ndelved deep enough to figure out exactly why though...\n\n---------------------------\nJeremy Payne\nUIUC Neuroscience program /\nCollege of Medicine\njrpayne@uiuc.edu\n(217)244-4478", "From article <1993Apr22.165659.8890@desire.wright.edu>, by demon@desire.wright.edu (Not a Boomer):\n\nHmmm... that's not quite right. The Performa 600 is Real Darn Close\nto the IIvx (but a better buy IMO). I also don't think they are so\nmuch a 'low-cost business solution', but a low-cost _home_ solution.\nWhy else bundle at ease (among other things)? Hardly a business\napplication. \n\nWhat do you mean by 'no \"retail price\"'. Quite the contrary, I think.\nThe price is darn near the same all across the country. That (again,\nIMO) was one of the selling points of the performas -- ie: no haggling\nrequired. Kinda like the Saturn (car) of the computer set. One\nprice, medium performance, ready to go.\n\nWhen I shopped for my Performa (600CD), the difference between Sears\n(*sigh), Montgomery Wards, Silo (*sigh), Circuit City (*sigh*) and\nBizmart (*sigh*) couldn't have been $100.00. Why I chose one over the\nother was based solely on availability and a friendly salesman who\nwent the extra mile (when did you last hear that about someone who\nsells Apples?). Admittedly, except for Montgomery Wards (and I\nsuspect I was just lucky) all of the salesfolk I spoke to didn't know\ndidly about the computers, peecee or mac. But then, neither did any\nof the Apple dealers I spoke with...\n\nIf you would've told me a year ago that I would buy a Macintosh from\nMontgomery Wards I woulda laughed for a long, long time. Go figure.\nI'm *real* happy with my Performa. Oh, and I bought the Apple\nPerforma Plus monitor (vs. buying 3rd party). Happy with that\ndecision as well. I walked in, plopped down some cash, and walked out\nwith a spankin' new computer the day before Christmas. \n-- \n---------------------------------------------------------------------\nInstrument Approach Procedures Automation DOT/FAA/AMI-230", "Some rendering programs require that all surface normals point in the same\ndirection. (ie: On a closed cube, all normals point outwards). You can use\nthe points on the faces to determine the direction of the normal, by making\nsure that all points are either in clockwise or counter-clockwise order.\n\nHow do you go about orienting all normals in the same direction, given a \nset of points, edges and faces? Say that you had a cube with all faces that \nhave their normals facing outwards, except for one face. What's the\nbest way to realize that face is \"flipped\", and should have it's points\nre-ordered? I thought I had a good way of telling this, but then realized\nthat the algorithm I had would only tell you if you had points in clockwise\norder for a 2d polygon. I'd like something for 3d data.\n\nAny hints, tips, references would be appreciated.\n\nSteve", "Following is a short note commenting on den Boer and Bosselaers'\nrecent work on the MD5 message-digest algorithm. Feel free to email\nquestions or further comments.\n\n-- Burt Kaliski\nRSA Laboratories\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\\documentstyle[12pt]{article}\n\\begin{document}\n\n\\title{On ``Pseudocollisions'' in the MD5 Message-Digest Algorithm}\n\\author{Burton S. Kaliski Jr. \\\\\n{\\tt burt@rsa.com} \\and\nMatthew J.B. Robshaw \\\\\n{\\tt matt@rsa.com} \\and\nRSA Laboratories \\\\\n100 Marine Parkway \\\\\nRedwood City, CA 94065}\n\\date{April 23, 1993}\n\n\\maketitle\n\nA message-digest algorithm maps a message of arbitrary length to a\n``digest'' of fixed length, and has three properties: Computing the\ndigest is easy, finding a message with a given\ndigest---``inversion''---is hard, and finding two messages with the\nsame digest---``collision''---is also hard. Message-digest algorithms\nhave many applications, including digital signatures and message\nauthentication.\n\nRSA Data Security's MD5 message-digest algorithm, developed by Ron\nRivest \\cite{rfc-md5}, maps a message to a 128-bit message digest.\nComputing the digest of a one-megabyte message takes as little as a\nsecond. While no message-digest algorithm can yet be {\\em proved}\nsecure, MD5 is believed to be at least as good as any other that maps\nto a 128-bit digest. Inversion should take about $2^{128}$\noperations, and collision should take about $2^{64}$ operations. No\none has found a faster approach to inversion or collision.\n\nRecent work by den Boer and Bosselaers \\cite{den-boer-md5} presents\na special kind of ``pseudocollision'' in MD5's\ninternal compression function, which maps\na 512-bit message block $x$ and a\n128-bit input state $s$ to a 128-bit output\nstate. They show how to find a message block $x$\nand two related input states $s_1$ and $s_2$ that yield the same\noutput state: $f(x,s_1)$ = $f(x,s_2)$. Their well-thought approach\nexploits structural properties of the collision function to find \na pseudocollision in about $2^{16}$ operations, much less than one\nwould expect.\n\nPractical implications of this pseudocollision work to the security of\nMD5 are not evident. While a real collision in MD5 implies a\npseudocollision (or a ``pseudo-inversion''), a\npseudocollision need not imply a real collision. Indeed, a real\ncollision, since it involves two different messages, would almost\nalways involve {\\em different} message blocks $x_1$ and $x_2$ such that\n$f(x_1,s_1) = f(x_2,s_2)$, but the pseudocollisions have the same\nmessage blocks. Moreover, the input states $s_1$ and $s_2$ would\ngenerally be unrelated, but the pseudocollisions' input states are\nthe same except for four bits. There does not seem to be any way to\nextend den Boer and Bosselaers' approach to anything beyond the\nspecial pseudocollisions, a limitation they readily admit.\n\nIt is reasonable, therefore, to believe that MD5 remains secure. While den\nBoer and Bosselaers have found interesting structural properties in\nMD5, the properties seem only to lead to special pseudocollisions\nand not anything approaching real collisions. Further research, of\ncourse, will give a better understanding of the strengths of MD5 and\nother message-digest algorithms, with the eventual hope that\nsuch algorithms can, in some sense, be proved secure.\n\n\\bibliographystyle{plain}\n\\begin{thebibliography}{1}\n\n\\bibitem{den-boer-md5}\nBert den~Boer and Antoon Bosselaers.\n\\newblock Collisions for the compression function of {MD5}.\n\\newblock In {\\it Advances in Cryptology --- Eurocrypt '93}, 1993.\n\\newblock Preprint.\n\n\\bibitem{rfc-md5}\nR.L. Rivest.\n\\newblock {\\it {RFC} 1321: The {MD5 Message-Digest Algorithm}}.\n\\newblock Internet Activities Board, April 1992.\n\n\\end{thebibliography}", "\nHas anyone tried or does anyone know if this procedure will work on\nan SE/30? Mine's old, slow, and in need of either death or power.\n\n-Kelley-\n-- \n---------------------------------------------------------\nThomas Kelley Boylan, PowerPC, IBM Austin, (512) 838-1869 ", "\nI, too, have a XC68882RC50 math coprocessor, which I installed\nsuccesfully in my Mega Midget Racer (clocked at 33 MHz). I have tried\nclocking my FPU at 28 to 50 MHz and it all worked just fine. I have a\nMC68030-33 CPU. I don't know why my FPU has an XC (my original 33MHz FPU\nwas label MC68882-33), but it seems to work fine on my system. Maybe you\njust have a bad chip.\n\nStefan", "\nI think he wanted to avoid reinventing the wheel.\nI would suggest that you take your code, and submit it to\ncomp.sys.mac.binaries to be distributed (including to the ftp sites). \nMany folks, myself included, would enjoy the extra code.\n\n\nJust to clarify, the 3D routines that are mentioned in various places\non the mac are in a libray, not the ROM of the mac. A few years ago before\nI knew anything about implementing graphics, I came across a demo of the\nApple GrafSys3D library and it actually did a lot. However, it is quite\nlimited in the sense that it's a low-level 3D library; your code still has\nto plot individual points, draw each line, etc ad nauseum. It has nothing\non GL, for example, where you can handle objects.\n\nOther things to consider when talking about Apple's old 3D GrafSys library:\n\n* Unsupported; never was and no plans exist to do so in the future\n\n* Undocumented; unless you call header files documentation...\n\nIf one knows something about graphics, you could probably figure it out,\nbut I'd assume there's better software available that gives better\noutput and is, at the same time, programmatically nicer (i.e. easier to\nprogram).\n\nJust my 2% tax", "\nIn germany you usually use the left hand for the 'b'\n\nyours\nFrankie\n-- \n---------------------------------------------\nFrank Probul\nEmanuelstr. 17, D-8000 Munich 40, Germany\n\nAppleLink: Probul.F@AppleLink.Apple.COM\ninternet: probulf@informatik.tu-muenchen.de\n\nMunich University of Technology\nDepartment of Computer Science\nGermany", "\nI usually use \"Algorithms for graphics and image processing\" by\nTheodosios Pavlidis, but other people here got them same idea and now\n3 of 4 copies in the libraries have been stolen!\n\nAnother reference is \"Digital Image Processing\" by Gonzalez and\nWintz/Wood, which is widely available but a little expensive ($55\nhere- I just checked today).", "Greetings!\n\n I have 2 sets of plugs for your oscilloscope or function\n hooks. \n I also have 2 sets of probes. They have multipliers\n of x1 and x10. There is also an REF switch. \n\n All these probes and plugs are in excellent conditions.\n\n If interested, please make me an offer. I will respond\n to your replies by Wed.", "Howdy chaps\n\nHas anybody got any pointers to good C, Pascal, etc compilers for \nmicrocontrollers, shareware or otherwise ?\n\nMy specific need is for 8051 C, but if the responses are many and varied I \nwill post a summary.\n\nCheers\nMike\n", "I have an Adlib sound board for sale. It includes\n\tthe original disks, and I'll throw in a Windows 3.1\n\t.WAV sound file driver. For those of you that are\n\tusing your PC Speaker for games, this will be a much\n\twelcomed board for your PC!\n\n\t$70.00 includes shipping to your home or office.\n\n\tEmail: bitzm@columbia.dsu.edu\n\n", "From article <1suntv$3km@watson.mtsu.edu>, by csjohn@watson.mtsu.edu (John Wallace):\n\nThe GL file is an archive containing individual frames or pieces of\nframes (usually stored as .PIC or .CLP files), fonts, and a .TXT file\nthat tells the GRASP animation system how to display it. GL stands\nfor Grasp Library. There is probably a detailed discussion of this subject\nin the alt.binaries.pictures FAQ.\n\nThere are freely distributable viewers for GL files, and they are usually\nnamed GRASPRT?.EXE (replace the ? with a version digit or letter). Most\nGL files contain frames that are hardware-specific to particular modes\nof the CGA, EGA, or VGA adapters on PCs. I think that there are some\ncopies of GRASPRT available by anonymous ftp (I know that I got one there\na long time ago).\n\n\t\tGood Luck\n\t\tJack\n", "\nSorry for the delay in replying; your message only showed up today (23 Apr)\non apple.com. QuickDraw GX is not a replacement for QuickDraw; the two of\nthem live quite happily together. You may write an app that only uses GX\nif you want, or you may write a hybrid app that uses both. Suptayoo.", "The 200CD is one of three oscillators that HP made many years ago. \n(The others were the Low Frequency Oscillator and the Wide Range \nOscillator.) These are the ones with the 7\" diameter chrome dial,\na Wein Bridge circuit that used pilot lights as the feedback loop,\nand firebottles that produced many volts of output.\n\nI've just acquired a pair of these venerable old beasts. \nThe non-working one, SN 605, (owned by Crosley Radio at one point!)\nneeds help. I know I can likely buy a microfiche copy of the book \nfrom HP, but that costs.... and considering I paid a dollar for\nthe pair in the rain at the Dayton Hamvention;-}", "Two LH Research SM11-1 power supplies (SM10 series).\n\n1000W, 5V, 200A (currently wired for 115VAC).\n\nControl lines: +/- sense, on/off, pwr. fail, high/lo margin, current monitor.\n\nThey both work!\n\n(List price from LH Research is $824.00 f/ qty. 1-9).\n\nAsking $150 each + shipping.", "\nI wish I caught the original post, but anyway ...\n\n\nThe problem is that the Plus's poor old power supply (sometimes referred to as\nthe analog sweep board) is on its way out. Apart from a board swap (bikkies to\nApple), there's not much the average Joe can do to fix it.\n\nYou can, of course, try and re-adjust the voltage levels (the 5v rail should\nbe as close to 5v as you cn get it) but this is more often than not a\ntemporary fix. A copy of Larry Pina's \"Macntosh Repair & Upgrade Secrets\" is a\nworthwhile investment for the serious do-it-yaself-er.\n", "I have a 105MB IDE drive and am having a few problems! I get \n'Data error on drive C' messages when reading some files. The problem is\nalso steadily getting worse.\n\nI have run some diagnostic software (PCTools V7.1) and it says that the\ndrive is OK - but it does have to retry some sectors and it briefly \nflashes up an error message (which is too quick to read).\n\nDoes anybody know of any cheap or free software which could mark these\nsectors as bad (DOS doesn't) or preferably perform a low level format.\nI have heard that the latter is possible on an IDE. Technical answers\nwould be appreciated. It would be nice to be able to use the disk again!!!", ": Does anyone know what is available in terms of automated testing\n: of X/Motif applications. I am thinking of a system which I could\n: program (or which could record events/output) with our verification\n: test procedures and then run/rerun each time we do regression\n: testing. I am interested in a product like this for our UNIX\n: projects and for a separate project which will be using OpenVMS.\n\nA question like this is answered in the FAQ, about sharing X windows.\nOne of the answers is XTrap, a record and playback extenstion to X. You\ncan find it at export.lcs.mit.edu:/contrib/XTrapV33_X11R5.tar.Z.\n\nDoes anyone know of a program which doesn't require an X extension? Most\nthe the X servers we have at work have vendor extensions which we can't\nmodify, so XTrap doesn't help up. There is X conferencing software at\nmit, but I don't know how easy it would be to modify it to do record and\nplayback.\n\nAny help would be appreciated.", "Hi-\nDo any of you hardware gurus out there know what kind of memory architecture \nApple uses in the powerbook Duos? Or in the powerbook in general?\n\nWhat are the factors that make the Duo 210 so slow compared to a desktop \nmachine running the same processor at the same speed (25MHz 68030)? How many \nwait states are in the memory system, etc? What kind of a data bus does it \nuse? 32-bit or 16-bit? \n\nIt's still slow when plugged into a DuoDock.\n\nAnyone know in general what kind of shortcuts notebook manufacturers take when \nmaking notebooks? I heard of a 486DX2/66 notebook getting a \"whopping\" 10 \nMIPS rating. A similar desktop machine should be getting about 3 times that, \nI guess.", "\nThe shell is waiting for the window-manager to respond to its\npositioning request. The window-manager is not responding because\nit thinks the window is already in the right place.\n\nExactly *why* the two components get into this sulk is unclear to\nme; all information greatly received.", "A couple of points :-\n\n\nI have an Adaptec 1542B and am very happy with it.\n\n\nNot so! I have both IDE and an Adaptec1542B in the same box and can use both\ndisks at the same time, eg. IDE to SCSI disk copy.\n\n\nWell, one statement and one correction!\n\nGuy", ": I'm in the market for all small (12x12 or so) digitizing tablet and would\n: like any comments. The main names I see are Calcomp, Summagraphics, and \n: Kurta. What are the major differences? Any particular preference? Also\n: what should I look for and what should I avoid? Thanks for any input\n: you can provide.\n\n\n: Rithea Hong\n: (r0h7630@tamuts.tamu.edu)", "Hello, I'm curious what sort of neat features exist on high-end\nanswering machines today. In particular, I'm interested in\nfeatures of digital answering machines. Also, what is the\ntypical amount of storage(in minutes) for these digital answering\nmachines?\n\nThe reason? I'm hacking together an answering machine program\nfor my ZyXEL modem and I'm wondering if I'm missing something\non my wish list.\n\narthur", "\nDo you have the specs for this monitor? What have they changed from the\nF550i? \n\nDo you know if their is going to be a new T560i soon? (a T560iW?)", "Roland HS-60 (SynthPlus 60)\n - 6 voice polyphonic fully programmable analog synthesizer\n - 61 full size keys\n - MIDI\n - Memory to store 128 patches\n - built in speakers\n - Connectors: MIDI in thru out, Input(2), Expansion Pedal, Head Phones,\n Tape Load & Save, Patch Shift, Pedal Hold, Output(2)\n\nAsking $225", "Has anyone observed this? If I copy a large, say 800K+ file (a large PKZIP\nfile for instance) to my floppy drive (3.5\") under MS Windows 3.1 via either\nProgram Manager or a DOS Shell, the file copied under the DOS shell \nhas errors whereas the file copied from within Program Manager does not.\n\nThe corruption is detected by executing \"pkunzip -t b:\\file.zip\" after \nboth copies. The file copied via the DOS shell always shows corruption.\n\n\nNow here's the kicker:\n\n\nI have many windows open while doing this; both DOS and WINDOWs apps.\nSupposedly all WINDOWs' apps share the same time slice, whereas the \nDOS apps get their own equal time slice (unless overriden).\n\n\nSo, as an example, I have 5 WINDOWs' apps open, 2 multitasking DOS sessions running,\nand one execution-execlusive DOS shell iconized (inactive). Under this \nscenario, CPU time is divided into two major slices: one for all the Windows\napps and one slice for the running DOS app. \n\nWhen copying under Windows PGM MGR, I'll assume the other Windows and DOS tasks\nare essentially inactive. Thus PGM MGR gets, say, 80% of the Windows slice and\n95% of the execution-background DOS shell's slices. Thus it gets (.8)(.95)^2 = \n.72 or 72% of the total available CPU time. \n\nWhen copying in a DOS shell, I activate the execute-exclusive mode DOS shell\n(no other DOS background tasks allowed), full screen, under the Windows task\nmanager. The CPU time available to this shell would be 80% of the Windows slice\n(assumming inactive Windows applications) and 100% of the DOS slice: \n(1.0)(.8) = .8 or 80% of the total available CPU time.\n\nSo why do I get copy errors under DOS if it has the greater amount of CPU\ntime? Is program manager working in a pre-emptive mode during the floppy \ncopy? It must be!\n\n\n\nMiscellaneous data: Running Windows on top of DOS 5.0, qemm 5.x, rapidbios.sys,\n 2.0 mbyte smartdrive (no delayed writes), two ramdrives, \n logitech mouse driver 6.2, full 16mbytes motherboard RAM,\n 64Kbyte motherboard cache, 386 DX 33 Mhz.\n \n Running dos-edit.com TSR in the DOS shell.\n \n-- ", "\nThe audio will simply select the CD audio when the microphone is removed. \nI don't believe the button un-dims, since there's nothing to select. I\nhaven't tracked down a Centris to check this on though.\n\n\nYup, I made the same mistake several months ago when this issue came up\nbefore :-)\n\n\nnoah", "\n\n\n\n\n\nI was my understanding that the purpose of those removeable-front-panels\nwere to make the radio useless, and thus discourage theft (that is if the \ncover were removed by the owner and taken along whenever the car was left.)\n\nIf those covers were sold for anything remarkably less than the radio \noriginally costs, or even sold at all,\nthen the above discouragement wouldn't be so great.\n\nI personally would be unhappy, if I bought a radio like that, thinking that \nremoving the cover greatly depreciated the radio's value, and the covers were\nsold by the company (or other legitimate source) cheaply.", "What is the value of an SE (HDFD) 4/20?\n\n-David", "\nOops, I didn't get the signal processing right (thats what I get from doing\nthe work on an ascii terminal). Here is the fixed patch:\n\n*** 1.1\t1993/04/28 06:05:03\n--- Imakefile\t1993/04/28 08:20:35\n***************\n*** 209,215 ****\n OBJS4=\txcmap.o\n \n PROGRAMS= xv bggen vdcomp xcmap\n! \n \n #if defined(HaveJpeg) || defined(HaveTiff)\n # ifdef HaveJpeg\n--- 209,218 ----\n OBJS4=\txcmap.o\n \n PROGRAMS= xv bggen vdcomp xcmap\n! all::\n! \t@echo \"\"\n! \t@echo \" Did you remember to 'make depend' first?\"\n! \t@echo \"\"\n \n #if defined(HaveJpeg) || defined(HaveTiff)\n # ifdef HaveJpeg\n***************\n*** 222,238 ****\n SUBDIRS = tiff\n # endif\n # define PassCDebugFlags\n MakeSubdirs($(SUBDIRS))\n- DependSubdirs($(DUBDIRS))\n #endif\n \n \n all::\n- \t@echo \"\"\n- \t@echo \" Did you remember to 'make depend' first?\"\n- \t@echo \"\"\n- \n- all::\n \t@echo \" building xv ...\"\n \t@echo \"\"\n \n--- 225,236 ----\n SUBDIRS = tiff\n # endif\n # define PassCDebugFlags\n+ # define IHaveSubdirs\n MakeSubdirs($(SUBDIRS))\n #endif\n \n \n all::\n \t@echo \" building xv ...\"\n \t@echo \"\"\n \n***************\n*** 259,267 ****\n \n \n SRCS = $(SRCS1) $(SRCS2) $(SRCS3) $(SRCS4)\n- DependTarget()\n \n AllTarget($(PROGRAMS))\n \n NormalProgramTarget(xv,$(OBJS1),$(DEPLIBS),$(LOCAL_LIBRARIES),)\n NormalProgramTarget(bggen,$(OBJS2),$(DEPLIBS),$(LOCAL_LIBRARIES),)\n--- 257,269 ----\n \n \n SRCS = $(SRCS1) $(SRCS2) $(SRCS3) $(SRCS4)\n \n+ \n AllTarget($(PROGRAMS))\n+ DependTarget()\n+ #ifdef IHaveSubdirs\n+ DependSubdirs($(SUBDIRS))\n+ #endif\n \n NormalProgramTarget(xv,$(OBJS1),$(DEPLIBS),$(LOCAL_LIBRARIES),)\n NormalProgramTarget(bggen,$(OBJS2),$(DEPLIBS),$(LOCAL_LIBRARIES),)\n*** 1.1\t1993/04/28 06:09:50\n--- xcmap.c\t1993/04/28 07:09:03\n***************\n*** 9,15 ****\n--- 9,19 ----\n \n /* include files */\n #include \n+ #if defined(sun) && defined(SYSV)\n+ #include \n+ #else\n #include \n+ #endif\n #include \n \n #include \n*** 1.1\t1993/04/28 08:33:13\n--- xv.h\t1993/04/28 17:47:38\n***************\n*** 284,292 ****\n--- 284,298 ----\n \n \n /* signal macros */\n+ #if defined(sun) && defined(SYSV)\n+ #define HOLD_SIG sighold(SIGALRM)\n+ #define RELEASE_SIG sigrelse(SIGALRM)\n+ #define PAUSE_SIG sigpause(SIGALRM)\n+ #else\n #define HOLD_SIG sigblock(sigmask(SIGALRM))\n #define RELEASE_SIG sigblock(0)\n #define PAUSE_SIG sigpause(0)\n+ #endif\n \n \n /* default for most folks */\n***************\n*** 318,323 ****\n--- 324,333 ----\n #define random rand\n #define srandom srand\n #endif\n+ #if defined(sun) && defined(SYSV)\n+ #define random() rand()\n+ #define srandom(x) srand(x)\n+ #endif\n \n \n \n*** 1.1\t1993/04/28 06:17:41\n--- tiff/Imakefile\t1993/04/28 08:53:34\n***************\n*** 49,59 ****\n--- 49,69 ----\n \n tif_compress.o: Imakefile\n \n+ #if HasGcc\n g3states.h: mkg3states.c t4.h\n -${RM} g3states.h\n+ \t${CC} -traditional -o mkg3states ${CFLAGS} mkg3states.c\n+ ./mkg3states > g3states.h || rm g3states.h\n+ #else\n+ g3states.h: mkg3states.c t4.h\n+ -${RM} g3states.h\n ${CC} -o mkg3states ${CFLAGS} mkg3states.c\n ./mkg3states > g3states.h || rm g3states.h\n+ #endif\n \n depend:: g3states.h", "\nA lot of the time, when you're dealing with someone who has no financial \ninterest in selling you the machine, you get a lot of opinion (as opposed \nto factual information, etc.). What it sounds like to me is that this guy \nhas had an experience with one flaky Centris 610 and formed an \nall-encompassing opinion on the rest of the 610's. I've seen lots of \npeople who frustrated me to no end because they refused to believe any \nother Mac Xyz would be any good, since their experience (with >one< \nmachine) with a Mac Xyz had been bad. Their loss, eh?", "\nI was at an Adobe seminar/conference/propaganda forum/whatever-you-want-to-\ncall-it a couple months ago where they announced that Display Postscript was\ngoing to be included in the next release of Sun's OS, (presumably Solaris.)\nSun was going to drop their development of Newsprint, and, in return for this,\nAdobe was going to port Illustrator and Photoshop to Sun. Other than the\narticles that appeared in the trade journals immediately after, I haven't\nheard a peep about it. I hope it's still in the works.\n", "For Sale in Northern Virgina\n\n Arcade Video Games\n\n Asteroids $200\n Omega Race $300", "I have been playing with my Centris 610 for almost a week now. I must say\nthis machine is really fast! The hardware turn-on feature is annoying, but\nI got PowerKey from Sophisicated Circuits and it works like a charm.\n\nHowever, I still have a few complaints:\n- when I restart the machine every time, the screen image (the desktop\n pattern) jerks up and down for a few times.\n- the Quantum 170 drive is noisy\n\nOverall, I highly recommend it: it is fast, affordable and looks great!\n\n--", "Briefly, StarNet Communications has four PC X server packages.\n\n\tMicro X-lite\t\t$ 75.00\n\t\tIncludes integrated tcp/ip, runs in 640KB, no arcs().\n\n\tMicro X-enlite\t\t$150.00\n\t\tIncludes integrated tcp/ip, runs under DOS, shape extension\n\t\t \" interface to Novell tcp/ip\n\n\tMicro X-DOS\t\t$345.00\t\t($225 ea. in a 5-pack)\n\t\tIncludes integrated tcp/ip, runs under DOS, shape extension\n\t\t \" interface to Novell tcp/ip, FTP's PC/TCP, & PC-NFS.\n\n\tMicro X-WIN\t\t$425.00\t\t($300 ea. in a 5-pack)\n\t\tIncludes Lanera TCPOpen tcp/ip stack & utilities\n\t\t \" interface to FTP's PC/TCP, Sun's PC-NFS, & WinSock.\n\nFor more information contact:\n----------------------------------------------------------------\nStarNet Communications\t\tFAX:\t 1-408-739-0936\n3073 Lawrence Expressway\tVoice:\t 1-408-739-0881\nSanta Clara, Ca. 95051\t\tE-mail microx@starnet.com", "\nI posted a similar query and got these replies which I am testing (so far so\ngood)..\n\n* turn hardware scrolling off before going into windows (24xmode scrolloff)\n\n* in the pif file for dos window, set \"emulate text mode\"\n\n* get the latest drivers from the DiamoND BBS (or cica): dates are 1-20-9.\n", ": Has anyone seen hallusions? You can buy a poster of them and it looks like a simple dot pattern\n: when you first look at it but if you focus behind it you see a 3d picture. I'm looking for\n: a program that generates these pictures. There's a company in Texas that makes them but I \n: doubt if they're giving the program away. Any help would be appreciated. \n: \nThere is a program included with the book \"Virtual Reality Playhouse\" which\nwill let you generate these pictures. It's not a very powerful program but\nit does an acceptable job for experimentation purposes.", "\n\n Are you using the traditional radiosity method, progressive refinement, or\n something else in your package?\n\n If you need to project patches on the hemi-cube surfaces, what technique are\n you using? Do you have hardware to facilitate the projection?\n\n\n\n\n What are the guest username and password for this ftp site?\n\n\n\n\n Thanks, Stephan.\n", "A local dealer is offering Mac II vi machines equipped with Kodak multi-\nsession compatible CD-ROM drives for what seems like an attractive price:\n$1500. I've used many other models up to a II ci, but this would be the\nfirst I could have my own Mac. Is it safe to buy an about-to-be discontinued\nmodel such as this. I'd like to yank the CD-ROM drive out, put it in a\nhousing and share it with my PC. Is this feasible? The only info I have on\nthe II vi is that it is relatively slow (16MHz), has an 68030 chip with a\nmath coprocessor. I want to add a non-Apple portrait monitor and use this\nmachine for HyperCard stack design. Is this a good buy, or would I be\nwasting my money? I would appreciate some advice. Thanks!\n\nRobert Matthews\nGRFG128@TWNMOE10.BITNET.EDU.TW", "\n\nGEC/Plessey specify a series of FM demodulators (SL1454 etc) for use in\nsatellite TV receivers : 150 or 600MHz in, 10MHz of baseband video out.\nI think there's also a related data slicer / clock recovery circuit intended\nfor use in DMAC decoders, though that isn't used in the most common \nimplementation - it may not be in volume production.\n\nThe most easily available components probably vary with local satellite\nstandards, and I think the european systems vary rather widely from those\nin the US - so it may be worth investigating locally-available receiver\ndesigns to find out what's in common use.\n\n-adrian\n\n", "\nMany X servers supporting graphics accelerators do not allow the creation\nof pixmaps exeeding the size of the screen. One workaround is to create\nseveral smaller pixmaps and add the results.\n", "\n\nhe ones I have seen are all fluorescent tubes. Maybe you could find a\nsmall tube to go in one of those hand-held fluoro lanterns?\n\n\nBlue lights. Ultra-violet (by definition?) goes from the blue end of the\nspectrum that people see to the radio spectrum (X-rays, cosmic rays etc).\n\npossibly you could get light at the fringe of visibility (which people\nwith false eye-lenses can see easily, since it's your lenses that soak up\nmost of the UV), however since most people use UV to get other things\nto `glow', and the near-blue is less energetic, it would probably not\nwork as well, if it worked at all. (lecture on basic atomic physics\nfits in here, about electron transitions (quantum leaps) and stuff.", "Great SLR camera (Ricoh) for sale. Has all the Nikon FE features, and also\nshutter speeds form 16 seconds and down. Excellent condition. With accessories\nsuch as a zoom lens. Very reasonable price.", "Would anyone have a few extra 3479P's lying around that I \ncould buy off of them.. Problem is that around here I can only perchase \nthem in $30 quantities, and I don't need this, and can't take this \nfinancially right now.... \n \n If anyone can accomodate me with this PLEASE \nreply to BOTH for the following mailing addresses...\n \n Thanks!!!\n \n_______________________________________________ \n | |\n _______ | Baden de Bari |\n / \\ | baden@sys6626.bison.mb.ca |\n (| o o |) | baden@inqmind.bison.mb.ca |\n | ^ | | >> True life can only |\n \\ -=- / | >> be experianced by |\n \\_____/ | >> those who do not fear death. |", "I have the following computer items for sale:\n\n Item Condition Price\n\n (a) Color EGA card and monitor Working $180.00\n Monitor made by Zenith\n \n\n (b) (3) 1Mx8 80ns SIMMS by MT Working $ 25.00/each\n (16) 256K 80NS SIMMS by OKI Working $ 3.00/each\n (4) 256K 100NS SIMMS by IT Working $ 2.75/each\n (4) 256K 100NS SIMMS by Motorola Working $ 2.75/each\n (4) 256K 120NS SIMMS by NEC Working $ 2.50/each\n\n NOTE: All the above simms left over from numerous Macintosh upgrade I\n did over the years. If you have questions as to which one\n fits your Mac, please mail me back. \n\n (c) (2) AST FASTRAM card with 512K Working $ 25.00/each\n could be upgraded to 2M with\n the DRAM in item(d) \n\n (d) (54) 256K 100NS DRAM by TI Working $ 0.50/each\n (36) 256K 100NS DRAM by OKI Working $ 0.50/each\n (18) 256K 100NS DRAM by Hunydai Working $ 0.50/each\n\n (e) Compaq Classic \"Portable\" computer Working $150.00\n 2 360K floppy drives\n Amber 9 inch screen\n 256K RAM\n\n (f) (2) Serial card Working $ 10.00/each\n \n (g) Western Digital Disk Controller Working $ 30.00\n WD1003-WAH F003 X16\n 16 bit card for floopy\n and harddisk\n\n (h) Logitech 3-buttons mechanical Working $ 20.00\n serial mouse\n \n\n (i) (1) Full-size AT case with Working $ 35.00\n 200W power-supply\n \n (1) Full-size AT case with Working $ 60.00\n 200W power-supply \n This is the original\n case for my AST Premium/286\n computer, it could have\n up to 5 half-height devices\n (three of which could be\n floopy drives, tape drive etc).\n I am also including the original\n 286 motherboard which condition\n is unknown.\n\n (j) (2) 1.2M 5.25\" floopy drive Working $ 30.00/each\n (1) 1.44 3.5\" floopy drive Working $ 38.00\n \n (k) Adaptec 1542B SCSI adapter Brand New $220.00\n\n (l) Wangtek 5150ES SCSI 250M Working $200.00\n 1/4\" tape drive \n\n (m) 1/2 height 40M MFM drive Working $100.00\n by Miniscribe?\n 1/2 height 40M MFM drive Working $100.00\n by Seagate ST 251-1 \n 1/2 height 20M MFM drive Working $ 50.00\n by Seagate\n\n (n) Prodigy start-up kit for Brand New $ 45.00\n PC with 24/96 data/fax\n modem\n \n The following items I am selling as is, all the them are in unknown\n condition, either I never get it to work or never try to hook it up.\n\n (o) EGA card Unknown $ 5.00\n\n (p) Multi-function game/clock/ Unknown $ 5.00\n parallel/serial port card\n\n (q) Monochrome Graphics 132 columns Unknown $ 5.00\n graphics card \n\n (r) CDC 94171-344 340M SCSI drive Unknown $150.00\n\n (q) Miniscribe 20M SCSI drive Unknown $ 15.00\n\n (r) Prodigy start-up kit Unknown FREE\n\n (s) (2) AST-3G Plus Chip Unknown $ 2.00\n\n (t) Seagate 80M MFM drive Unknown $ 80.00\n model ST-4096 \n\n I bought the radar detector a couple years ago for obvious reason(s)\n and I have never been ticketed for the past 3 years and now I don't\n drive to work anymore so I would rather sell it.\n\n (u) Whristler 425 radar detector Working $ 30.00\n X & K bands \n\n\n If you would like to buy any of the above items, please mail me\n at jack@acs.bu.edu. Also, a 10% automatic discount will apply if\n your total purchase price is $100 or more (except the two brand\n new items). Buyer(s) pay shipping.\n \n If you think the prices I listed above is unrealistic, please mail\n me back and I would take your advice into consideration and make the\n proper adjustments.\n\n The reason I am selling this stuff is because I have decided that\n I had enough with this hobby of PC computing and I want to move on\n other interests.\n\n One last thing, if you know any non-profit organization whom might\n be interested in my equipments, please let me know. Because if no\n one wants to buy them, I might as well donate them and get a tax\n break...\n\n Thanks.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t-Jack\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tjack@acs.bu.edu\n\n\n \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n-- ", "\nSorry, but olwm and tvtwm don't do it. They place the title at that position\nand the window at a position below it.\n\nThis becomes a problem when you want a program to be able to save its current\nconfiguration and restore is later.\n\nCurrently, my solution is:\n\n\tXCreateWindow(...);\n\tXSetWMProperties(..);\n\tXMapWindow(...);\n\tXFlush(...);\n\tXMoveWindow(...);\n\n\nIt works with olwm, but is less than elegant. All this leaves me wondering\nif I'm overlooking something obvious.", "I need the jumper settings for the achieve io card...usually found in\nxt's. It is affecting my video card and forcing the machine into 40 col\nmode. Any help?\n\n -The Ghoul Hath Spoken", "\n\nI guess 100k, connecting pins 1-3 (1x), 1-6 (1y), 9-11 (2x), and 9-13 (2y).\n\nOr: Get an 8-bit DA-Converter (merely a couple of transistors and\nResistors) and an OpAmp to compare its output to the voltage you want to\nmeasure, connect them to a spared printer port (if you have one), and do\nthe rest by software (stepwise refinement). The port addresses for your\nprinter ports are probably: &H378 (LPT1), &H278 (LPT2). This should work\nwell enough for your purposes.\n\nHope this helps\n\n--\nGMD, Schloss Birlinghoven, Postfach 1316, D-5205 St. Augustin 1, FRG", "This is not flame, or abuse, nor do I want to start another thread (this\nis, after all, supposed to be about IMAGE PROCESSING).", "\nNo, MIS folks have infinite budgets of death, and they also get parts\nof their budget allocated \"upgrades\", \"maintenance\", and \"new purchases\",\nand a lot of IBM mainframe purchases are actually \"leases\" and so\nis the software.\n\nBasically, the engineers who have tight budgets, i.e. the coders and\ndesigners of a company, bitch and moan when they drop 15,000 on a \nSparc 1 only to see a faster machine appear a year later. MIS types\nupgrade once every 5-10 years, and their costs are amortized and\ndepreciated over a longer period, and the budget office justifies\nthe expense because they actually use the machines for accounting,\npayroll, etc.\n\nNow, if the budget office was dependant on the engineers for some\nreason like payroll and accounts, you'd sure as hell see every\nengineer with a new Cray on his desktop every year. :-)", "I have the following Canon items for sale, the condition is listed\nas numerical. 10 indicates like new condition.\n\nCanon T70 body (Multiprogram AE, Dual metering system,\n build in motor drive etc.) 9-\nCanon FD 50mm/F1.8 10\nCanon FD 85mm/F1.8 with Canon BT-52 hood 8 (excellent portrait lens)\nOsawa 28-50mm/F3.5-4.5 zoom (made in Japan) with soft case 10\nSoligor 80-200mm/F4.5 MACRO (1:4) zoom (Japan) with hard case 10\nVivitar SMS30D dedicated thyristor flash in box with manual 10\n\nAsking $350/obo. S&H not included.", "\nFor flexibility. Anyway, what you say is not really true. The color information\nis associated with a GraphicsContext, not with a display, and the GC _IS_\na parameter to the drawing routines.\n\nSo, if you need to fast switch between green dotted lines and blue ones of\nwidth 2, you can make 2 GCs for those cases and then simply do\n\nXDrawLine(dpy,win,gc_red,x1,y1,x2,y2);\nXDrawLine(dpy,win,gc_blue,x3,y3,x4,y4);\n\nfor this effect.\n\nThis is eventually more complicated to do for the programmer, but also much\nmore efficient and flexible. You would not include all the other parameters\nlike line pattern, with, cap and joinstyle, drawmode and so on in every\ndrawing call, so why do it for color ? BTW, stay away from XDrawPoint()\nif you don't really need it (to draw RANDOM points), for image transfers\nthere are Image routines.\n", "\n\n\n\n\n While I don't mean to damn Henrik's attempt to be helpful here,\nhe's using a common misconception that should be corrected.\n\n Mach banding will occur for any image. It is not the color\nquantization you see when you don't have enough bits. It is the\nhuman eye's response to transitions or edges between intensities.\nThe result is that colors near the transistion look brighter on\nthe brighter side and darker on the darker side.\n\n--Andre\n", "I want to get rid of alot of comics that I have. I am selling for 30% off\nthe Overstreet Price Guide. \n\nCOMIC CONDITION\n----- ---------", "Hey man! -\n\nHaving spent the past season learning to skate and having played a\ncouple of sessions of mock hockey, I'm ready to invest in hockey\nequipment (particularly since I will be taking summer 'hockey\nlessons'). However, I am completely and profoundly ignorant when it\ncomes to hockey equipment. I've checked out local stores and looked\nat catalogs, but I was hoping to solicit opinions/suggestions before\nactually plunking down any money. Having played football in high\nschool and college I at least have that equipment as a basis for\ncomparison. But for example what are the advantages/disadvantages to\ndifferent kinds of shoulder pads and pants/girdles? Are there any\nnotoriously bad or unsafe brands or styles? etc. So any suggestions\nor comments would be greatly appreciated.\n", " You can try defraging your disk more often. It definitely will\n help speed things up. A 2 megs smartdrv is also a good idea with\n the amount of memory you have, and use fastdisk (32bit access) if\n you not already. Hope that help..", "Which 486 CPU will give the better performance on math intensive programs, a\n486-66 DX2 or a 486-50 DX?\n\nThanks in advance,", "\nFirst of all, realize that Tesla invented AC power generators, motors,\ntransformers, conductors, etc. Technically, *ALL* transformers are Tesla\ncoils. In general though when someone refers to a Tesla coil, they mean\nan \"air core resonant transformer\". The TV flyback version Tesla\ncoil (see the _Encyclopedia_of_Electronic_Circuits_ V3, 106-1 for\ndiagram) has NOT an air core. It is of a class of circuit called\n\"Oscillating Shuttle Circuit\" (OSC). Generally OSC's are highly\nefficient, but this version uses transistors and resistors,\nwhich are very lossy devices. Typically Tesla used active\nreactances instead of passive resistors, so that he could achieve\nefficiencies of 99.5%, and better. The usual application of an air-core\nresonant transformer, or of an OSC, is to produce strong EMI\nfor wireless broadcasts. How well do you think your computer\nscreen would work if we removed the HF HV Tesla (flyback) coil\nfrom it? If we were to remove from our homes and industries all\nTesla coils, our lights would go dark, our cars would sputter\nand die, our radios would go silent, our industries would grind\nto a halt, and we would have to go back to using coal for heat,\ngas for lamps, horses for transportation, steam for power, and\ntelegraph for communication. Is that real world enough for you???????\n\nGET THE MESSAGE! WE WOULD NOT HAVE 1/100 THE CONVIENIENCES WE HAVE\nTODAY IF NOT FOR TESLA. GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE!\n\nIf it had been up to Edison, we'd still be in the 19th century.\n(flame me at your own peril. I'm very good at putting edison down).\n\n----\n ET \"Tesla was 100 years ahead of his time. Perhaps now his time comes\".", "I am looking for some fast polygon routines (Shaded or Texture\nMapped) in ASM (compile with MASM) or in Turbo Pascal (compile with\nTP6). It has to be able to run on a 286, but does not have to look\nsuper fast on a 286, but must look good on a 386. \n\nIf anyone has any such code could you please mail it to me. Or tell\nme where it can be got. \n\nThanks in advance.\n\n\n--", "I have a WANGTEK tape controller card (Revision E) that was used with the\nSytos backup system to take backups of a friend's system. That system has\ncrashed and I'm attempting to restore it.\n\nUnfortunately, the documentation for this ancient card has been lost in the\nmists of time, and I need to know the DMA, IRQ and address for this card.\n\nCan anyone suggest how I could determine these things?\n\nThere is a bank of dip switches on the card which are set to:\n\n---------------------\n1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10\n UPUPUP UPUPUP\nUPUP UPUP\n------OPEN----------\n\nThanks for your time.\n", "My original post:\n\nAha, I think I found the problem and it isn't dirt! Another guy here was \nusing a different kind of mouse and was using 640x400x16 video driver (the \ndefault VGA for Windows). He has an S3 LocalBus card like I do and when I \nloaded the S3 video driver in Windows for him, his mouse became jumpy too. \nSeems like it is the S3 driver! Is there any newer one than version 1.4 \nthat would solve this problem? It is really bad. I have to use the \nkeyboard instead sometimes! The s3-w31.zip on cica is version 1.4 (which is \nthe same version that came with my card).\n\n\n---\nSean Eckton\nComputer Support Representative\nCollege of Fine Arts and Communications\n\nD-406 HFAC\nBrigham Young University\nProvo, UT 84602\n(801)378-3292", "\n\n\nI've had the board for over a year, and it does work with Diskdoubler,\nbut not with Autodoubler, due to a licensing problem with Stac Technologies,\nthe owners of the board's compression technology. (I'm writing this\nfrom memory; I've lost the reference. Please correct me if I'm wrong.)\n\nUsing the board, I've had problems with file icons being lost, but it's\nhard to say whether it's the board's fault or something else; however,\nif I decompress the troubled file and recompress it without the board,\nthe icon usually reappears. Because of the above mentioned licensing\nproblem, the freeware expansion utility DD Expand will not decompress\na board-compressed file unless you have the board installed.\n\nSince Stac has its own product now, it seems unlikely that the holes\nin Autodoubler/Diskdoubler related to the board will be fixed.\nWhich is sad, and makes me very reluctant to buy Stac's product since\nthey're being so stinky. (But hey, that's competition.)\n-- ", "A few days back someone posted info on a gopher site where you could\nsearch for medical graphics, etc. Could someone please repost or mail me\na copy? I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks!\n\nMark", "\n\n -- --\n 99 99\n\n\n\n\n\tSombody's data is wrong. Since Mac OS, Finder, Systerm\nor whatever you want to call it doesn't appear in the first \nsurvey, I tend to doubt their results more. Just because\nsombody wrote it doesn't mean its correct.\n", "From tolsty Thu Apr 23 21:32:35 1992\n\tTo: newsserv@newcom.kiae.su\n\tNewsgroups: comp.periphs,comp.graphics.digest,comp.graphics,comp.binaries.ibm.pc.wanted,alt.graphics.pixutils,bit.listserv.omrscan\n\tMessage-Id: \n\tOrganization: NSK RAN\n\tFrom: Andrey V. Shorin \n\tDate: Thu, 23 Apr 1992 21:32:35 +0200\n\tSubject: Analysis on text reading utils needed (IBM PC)\n\tDistribution: msk\n\t\n\tHi!\n\tDoes anybody know any reliable utils to read english texts with scanner?\n\tI want some analysis on quality of recognition, because I want to read\n\ttexts which I get by fax ( you know -- quality on faxes is rather bad ).\n\tThe scanner I have is B&W and 300dpi. But if there exist any good software\n\tthat needs other specifications, that will be OK.\n\t\n\tPlease, send messages to my E-mail or on conference server, I'll summarize\n\tthem and consider your recomendations.\n\t\n\tTHANK YOU!!!\n\t--\n\t Andrey V. Shorin\n\t \n\t Scientific Council on Complex Problem \"Cybernetics\",\n\t Russian Academy of Sciences", "Just thought I would add $0.02 to DeskJet thread. I got my\nfirst one in college about 5 or so years ago.\n\n\tI've been a happy HP user of the DeskWriter for Macintosh for\npast 5 years. I got one just a few months after their release. And I\ngot software revision 1.0a (now I'm up to rev. 3.1. Our family (sister\nand father) have each purchased their own DW's after seeing mine go\nfor one year unscathed (their stuck to their trusty ImageWriter II's).\nThe original DW has gone for 5 years at moderate personal use. I would\nsay that it has gone through at least 15,000 sheets, and around one\n(small) ink cartridge every 3 months or so.\n\n\tMy brother might take this DW now (I'm probably gonna give it\nto him), and I am looking to upgrade to a color DW. The chief\nadvantages/disadvantages I've found over the years are:\n\nAdvantages:\tQuick (2-3 ppm), Quiet (roomate can sleep while it's\nprinting), AppleTalk Networkable (unfortunately the original wasn't,\nso look out if you buy used. I rewired our home with phonenet\nAppleTalk connectors, and while home, we can all use my dad's one\nDW!), and cheap (now run ~$300). BTW, you can upgrade older DW's to\ncolor or for appletalk, I dunno if HP still does the upgrades, but I\nreceived many offers (I just didn't ned it however). Also, crisp\nlaser-quality output is a wonder (used to really impress those\nImageWriter Dot-Matrix people so much so, that I had to charge $0.25\nper sheet to stop my college dorm neighbors from bothering me at all\nhours of the night....)\n\nDisadvantages.\tInk used to be hard to find, and wasn't cheap, and\nwasn't originally water-proof. While HP has done wonders with the ink\n(I dunno if it's still toxic), it is still subjet to smearing and\nrunning (if you run around in the damp Boston rain, and get your\nbookbag completely soaked). Ink now runs about $14-$15 for small carts\n(I get mine from Elek-Tek in Chicago, I think they're now down to\n$12). The ink carts used to say they're dated for only 6 months, but\nI don't think they say so anymore. We stick to a 4 month supply (of\nabout 3 carts). We use cheap Hammerhill Laser Print paper (after\nfooling for a long time. Laser/Xerox paper is also good). Smearing\ndoesn't happen, unless you have a brand new ink cart and you grab the\npaper and smudge it all over as soon as it comes out of the machine.\nOther disadvantages are : No Postscript (this can be an advantage in\nspeed, usually). Ways around this are Ghostscript or Freedom of Press\nsoftware solutions. I bet HP probably has a PS prototype inkjet, but\nthey won't release it for fear of hurting LJ sales.\n\nIn the end, the primary advantages of laser are true postscript\n(unless you go for cheap lasers), and fused toner (no smearing, even\nwhen soaking in water). Lasers are slightly sharper, but the only\ninstance where I needed precise layouts was Printed Circuit Board\nTransparencies for PhotoEtching. I found a Textronix color Phaser\nPostscript (Thermal Wax Transfer) to work the best to make PCB\nnegatives directly onto a transparency.", "misc.entrepreneurs,misc.wanted,pnw.forsale,uw.pc.ibm,seattle.forsale,uw.\n.forsale,misc.forsale,\nmisc.forsale.computers.d,misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone,misc.forsale.co\nomputers.other,\nDistribution: world\nFrom:yuri@atmos.washington.edu\nReply-To: yuri@atmos.washington.edu\nOrganization: \nSubject: 100 simms and 100 sipps 1MB needed\nKeywords: \n\t\n\tI need 100 simms and 100 sipps 1MB, but price should be around $17-20/piece.\nI am waiting for an offer.", "\nI've been given the sites of some excellent 3D objects on all sorts of file formats ...\nHere's where they are:\n\n\nHost plaza.aarnet.edu.au\n\n Location: /graphics/graphics/mirrors\n DIRECTORY drwxr-xr-x 512 Apr 4 14:32 avalon.chinalake.navy.mil\n\nHost compute1.cc.ncsu.edu\n\n Location: /mirrors/wustl/graphics/graphics/mirrors\n DIRECTORY drwxr-xr-x 512 Mar 14 09:15 avalon.chinalake.navy.mil\n\nHost wuarchive.wustl.edu\n\n Location: /graphics/graphics/mirrors\n DIRECTORY drwxr-xr-x 512 Jan 3 06:29 avalon.chinalake.navy.mil\n", "\nHe is probably referring to the DOS version.. the dos versions is up\nto like version 6 i think. The window version just came out recently\nso it is only up to like version 2 or something.\n", "I found an oddity with our SGI Indigo (MIPS R3000 chip).\nWhen xlock +nolock is running, and I am working remotely\nor in batch (at) mode, the runtime of my programs (as timed\nby using clock() in the code itself) is ~25% slower than if\nxlock is NOT running. No other processes seem to affect my\nruntimes, yet this is very consistent!\n\nAny explanations, real or imagined :)", "From article <0096B11B.08A283A0@vms.csd.mu.edu>, by 2a42dubinski@vms.csd.mu.edu:\n\nTry using the extended character set (Alt-#### sequences) . . \nlook in Character Map in the Accessories group and see the alt-sequence\nfor the font you want!\n", "Dear SGI and netter GL-X Mixed-Model experts,\nI am writing a mixed model application that creates a couple different\ncolor maps for different windows, and I've been having trouble getting\nthe window manager to reliably honor my requests. In some environments\n(entry level R3000 Indigo w/ 4.0.5) all windows are getting properly\nconnected to their designated color maps, but on others (an IRIS 4D 240/GTX;\nalso a different entry level Indigo) the color mapping is unreliable\nand changes behavior when I compile at different times. The most common\nproblem is that all non-top-level windows fail to be displayed according\nto their colormap. My application starts out by creating three top-level\nwindows; in some cases all but the first of these also fail to be\ndisplayed by their colormap. This is spectacularly aggravating.\n\nI would dearly appreciate\n 1. an explanation of the standard, RIGHT, CORRECT way to give a window\n a colormap such that the Window Manager will Honor and Obey it;\n\n 2. any advice about problems that could cause my failure to get my\n desired colormaps.\n\nBy now I have exhausted my own attempts on this, having tried everything\nreasonable or imaginable.\n\nBelow is example code giving the schematic for how I have been *TRYING*\nto do this. Please, please, please SOMEBODY tell me what I am doing\nwrong/how to do it right!!!\n\n\nYours,\n\nChris Lee\n\n/***********************************************************************/\nDisplay* dpy; /* DECLARE SOME DATA... */\nColormap popup_cmap;\nXColor mycolor;\nWindow win;\nXSetWindowAttributes cwa;\nint nwlist;\nWindow *wlist;\n\n/* NB: FOR BREVITY, NOT SHOWING ALL CODE LINES--JUST A SCHEMATIC */\n\npopup_cmap=XCreateColormap(dpy,DefaultRootWindow(dpy),vis->visual,AllocAll);\n\n/* HERE WE STORE A BUNCH OF COLORS USING\n XStoreColor(dpy,popup_cmap,&mycolor); ... */\n\ncwa.colormap = popup_cmap;\nwin = XCreateWindow(dpy, parent, x, y, w, h,\n borderWidth, vis->depth, InputOutput, vis->visual,\n CWColormap|CWBorderPixel, &cwa);\n\n\n/* LIST ALL SUB WINDOWS OF my_topwin, PARENT OF win, INTO wlist;\n nwlist IS COUNTER OF ENTRIES IN wlist.\n\n NB: wlist is static storage that can be relied on not to go away\n or be corrupted. I thought of that! Does anyone know if\n setting WM properties is by data copy, or by reference pointer?\n\n ie. is it acceptable to pass data for a Property, then free\n the data? */\nXSetWMColormapWindows(dpy,my_topwin,wlist,nwlist);\n\nXMapRaised(Display0,win);", "Title just 'bout says it all:\n \nGrasshopper Remote Controlled Car for Sale/Trade\n \nFeatures:\n -$75 racing engine installed (original included as well)\n -2 sets of tires\n -Futaba 2 channel radio with servos/receiver\n -body completly refinished - great shape\n -Battery and charger\n -every thing you need to have it running right out of the box,\n VERY fast\n -everything 100%\n \nI haven't run this thing in a long time. I had it out the other\nday just to check on it and everything is A-OK.\n \nI'd listen to ANY cash offers, but am more interested in trading\nfor some extra storage for my computer. If you have any of the\nfollowing and are interested in a trade, drop me a line:\n \nIDE hard drive 50+ megs (MUST be 3.5\" wide, 1\" tall)\nSCSI hard drive 50+ megs (MUST be 3.5\" wide, 1\" tall)\nSCSI tape backup (any make/size)\nSCSI CD-ROM\n9600 baud modem (external)", "I'm searching for a phonetic TrueType font for Windows 3.1. If \nanybody knows one, please mail me!\n\nThanks.\n\ndw \n", "Does it\nin\nthe\nI have had a Nikon L35AW since 1988. Unfortunately it is no longer\nmade. It is a P & S sealed to resist water to a depth of 12 feet. It\nis not really an underwater camera but it has been great in wet and\ndusty conditions. It takes AA batteries (hooray). It has the solid,\nheavy feel of old-style Nikons and has taken all the abuse I have\nbeen able to give it. This includes a lot of water (rain, river and\nsea), desert and beach sand as well as being used as a weapon\nagainst a mugger. Shouting and swinging the camera by the strap\ndidn't scare the mugger away, hitting him with the flying camera\ndid. This is my, \"never be without a camera\" camera. The current\nwater-resistant (Sport Touch I think is the name) model is nothing\nlike as solid or well sealed.", "1. Fire up Microsoft Word for Windows (version 2.0c)\n\n2. Type the following paragraph:\n\n If you want to rite really very dead good, you just cant live.\n Without one of the wonderfully write aids, what you're can get\n what helps me impress me boss.\n\n3. Under Tools|Options|Grammar select \"Use grammar and style rules\n strictly (all rules) and click OK.\n\n4. Run the grammar checker (this also does a spelling check).\n\f\nNo complaints.\n\nReadability:\n Passive Sentences: 0%\n Flesch Reading Ease: 84.5\n Flesch Grade Level: 6.6\n Flesch-Kincaid: 5.2\n Gunning Fog Index: 8.7\n", "\nYou get a mic with the C650 if you get it with the internal CD ROM drive.\n\nGary\n\n-- ", "Check out Image Pals v1.2 from U-Lead (until May, special $99 intro price,\n310-523-9393). It has the basic image processing tools for all major formats,\ndoes screen grabbing, and allows all your image files to be calalogged into\na thumbnail database. It's great!\n", "NOTE: followups to comp.dcom.modems (for obvious reasons)\n\n\n\n\nthe Courier is their top-of-the-line product, thus the higher price. I've\nnever taken a real look at the Sportster line (only Couriers), but from what\nI've gathered, it's basically more of an entry-level modem. probably\ndoesn't meet the same specifications that the Courier does. I'm not sure\nif the Sportster line is fully DSP driven like the (more recent) Courier\nmodems are, so upgrades in the future may be an issue.\n\nagain, take all of the above with a grain of salt...I've never evaluated\nthe Sportster, so I'm going by bits and pieces that I've heard. if you\nwant a real answer, post the question in comp.dcom.modems and you'll find\npeople who HAVE worked with the Sportster.\n\npersonally, though, if I were going to look at the Courier modems, I'd\nbuy the Dual Standard...then I'd get both HST and V.32bis. in fact, this\nis exactly what I did. :-) I'm sitting here looking at my USR DS right\nnow.\n\nand now, to correct a few VERY incorrect statements.... folks, if you want\nto get reliable answers to modem and/or UART questions, post them to\ncomp.dcom.modems. if you post in other groups, you never know what you'll\nget in the way of an answer (you may very well get a good answer...or you\nmay get something like the one below). at least in cdm, if someone posts\ncomplete and utter bs, you'll see a flurry of folks correcting them (to\navoid spreading faulty info).\n\n\njust as it does at lower speeds, too. there is absolutely nothing in\neither CCITT Recommendation V.42 or V.42bis that says that they can only\noperate on modems that are running V.32bis. V.42bis, of course, is\ncurrently only *STANDARDIZED* for operation on top of V.42 (in its primary\nmode of operation, LAPM), but that's about as far as that goes.\n\nand just in case there's some confusion on this, V.42/V.42bis are also\nsupported by the Courier line (unless you have a really ancient one).\n\n\ntake a second look at the original question:\n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nsee the V.32bis up there? the question was not about the Courier HST\nmodem, or about the Courier Dual Standard...it was about the Courier\nV.32bis modem. the modem in question does not support HST, period. it\ntherefore does not support the 16.8 kb HST.\n\nalso, not all Courier HST / Courier Dual Standard modems support the 16.8 kb\nversion of HST. my Dual Standard only supports HST at 14.4 kb. there are\neven older models that only run HST at 9.6 kb.\n\n\nHST is USR's proprietary modulation scheme.... but we're not talking about\nHST, we're talking about V.32bis. V.32bis is most definitely *NOT* a\nproprietary modulation scheme.\n\n\nI do hope you didn't mean for these two sentences to be related in some\nway.....\n\nfirst off, V.32 and V.32bis are both synchronous and asynchronous. this is\npart of the CCITT Recommendation (i.e., part of the standard). it isn't a\nfeature unique to the Sportster (I just looked at the appropriate chapter\nin the Courier DS manual).\n\nsecond, HST is not ``one way only.'' more correctly put, it is an\nasymmetrical modulation scheme, meaning it doesn't work at the same speed\nin both directions. HST operates at [9.6 / 14.4 / 16.8] in one direction,\nand has a low-speed back-channel in the other direction. the high-speed\nchannel goes in the direction of the higher data flow. this is fine if\nyou're logged on to say, a BBS, and type one letter and get screens of\ninfo back, transfer files (not using bimodem), etc.... there is, of course,\na penalty for turnaround time when the high-speed channel needs to reverse\ndirections.\n\nV.32 and V.32bis are both symmetrical, meaning they do transfer the full\ndata rate in both directions at the same time.\n\nthird, synchronous vs asynchronous has absolutely nothing to do with\nsymmetrical vs asymmetrical...they are two completely different topics.\n\n\nagain, more correctly put, *SOME* of the Courier line will be upgradeable\nto whatever ``V.fast'' is called when it's complete. if you have the large\nfootprint Courier modems (like I do), you're S.O.L..... there was an\nupgrade plan a while back to upgrade to a small footprint variety, which\ncould eventually be upgraded to support V.fast, but the cost of the two\nupgrades together pretty much put it higher than just buying a new modem.\n\nlater.....\n --jim\n\n--\n#include 73 DE N5IAL (/4)\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nINTERNET: jim@n5ial.mythical.com | j.graham@ieee.org ICBM: 30.23N 86.32W\nAMATEUR RADIO: n5ial@w4zbb (Ft. Walton Beach, FL) AMTOR SELCAL: NIAL", "\nHere is one by Andrew \"Graphics Gems\" Glassner that I got from a\ncollegue of mine. I think I fiddled with it a little bit to make it\ndeal with whatever bizarre problem I was working on at the time but it\nis known to work.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tspl\n\t\t\t - - - -\n/* spheres\n ASG 9 Feb 85\n spl Thu Mar 8 17:17:40 EST 1990\n*/\n#include \n#include \n\n#define PI 3.141592654\n\nstruct Point_struct {\n double x, y, z;\n};\n\nstatic double radius;\nstatic double xorg;\nstatic double yorg;\nstatic double zorg;\n\ndo_sphere( r, freq, x, y, z )\n\n double r;\n int freq;\n double x;\n double y;\n double z;\n\n {\n\n int pole;\n double northy, southy, poley;\n double rtheta, rtheta2, ntheta, ntheta2, magicangle;\n double theta, thetastart, thisy, den, t;\n struct Point_node *pnp;\n struct Point_struct p1, p2, p3, p4, n1, n2, n3, n4, pt;\n\n radius = r;\n xorg = x;\n yorg = y;\n zorg = z;\n\n/* north pole */\n\n magicangle = 30.0*PI/180.0;\n northy = radius*sin(magicangle);\n southy = -radius*sin(magicangle);\n for (pole=0; pole<2; pole++) {\n\n if (pole==0) {\n\n poley=radius; \n thisy=northy; \n thetastart=0.0; \n\n }\n else { \n\n poley= -radius; \n thisy=southy; \n thetastart=36.0; \n\n }\n for ( theta = thetastart; theta < 360.0; theta += 60.0 ) {\n\n rtheta = theta*PI/180.0;\n rtheta2 = (theta+60.0)*PI/180.0;\n p1.x = 0.0; \n p1.y = poley; \n p1.z = 0.0; \n p2.x = radius*cos(rtheta);\n p2.y = thisy;\n p2.z = radius*sin(rtheta);\n p3.x = radius*cos(rtheta2);\n p3.y = thisy;\n p3.z = radius*sin(rtheta2);\n\n if (pole==0) {\n\n/* make ring go the other way so normals are right */\n\n pt.x = p3.x; \n pt.y = p3.y; \n pt.z = p3.z; \n p3.x = p2.x; \n p3.y = p2.y; \n p3.z = p2.z; \n p2.x = pt.x; \n p2.y = pt.y; \n p2.z = pt.z; \n\n }\n\n den = (p1.x*p1.x)+(p1.y*p1.y)+(p1.z*p1.z); \n den = sqrt(den);\n\n if (den != 0.0) {\n\n t = radius / den; \n p1.x *= t; \n p1.y *= t; \n p1.z *= t;\n\n }\n\n den = (p2.x*p2.x)+(p2.y*p2.y)+(p2.z*p2.z); \n den = sqrt(den);\n\n if (den != 0.0) {\n\n t = radius / den; \n p2.x *= t; \n p2.y *= t; \n p2.z *= t;\n\n }\n\n den = (p3.x*p3.x)+(p3.y*p3.y)+(p3.z*p3.z); \n den = sqrt(den);\n\n if (den != 0.0) {\n\n t = radius / den; \n p3.x *= t; \n p3.y *= t; \n p3.z *= t;\n\n }\n\n subdivide_tri(&p1,&p2,&p3,freq);\n\n }\n\n }\n\n/* now the body */\n\n for (theta=0.0; theta<360.0; theta += 60.0) {\n\n rtheta = theta*PI/180.0; \n rtheta2 = (theta+60.0)*PI/180.0;\n ntheta = (theta+36.0)*PI/180.0; \n ntheta2 = (theta+96.0)*PI/180.0;\n p1.x = radius*cos(rtheta); \n p1.y = northy; \n p1.z = radius*sin(rtheta);\n p2.x = radius*cos(rtheta2); \n p2.y = northy; \n p2.z = radius*sin(rtheta2);\n p3.x = radius*cos(ntheta); \n p3.y = southy; \n p3.z = radius*sin(ntheta);\n p4.x = radius*cos(ntheta2); \n p4.y = southy; \n p4.z = radius*sin(ntheta2);\n\n den = (p1.x*p1.x)+(p1.y*p1.y)+(p1.z*p1.z); \n den = sqrt(den);\n\n if (den != 0.0) {\n\n t = radius / den; \n p1.x *= t; \n p1.y *= t; \n p1.z *= t;\n\n }\n\n den = (p2.x*p2.x)+(p2.y*p2.y)+(p2.z*p2.z); \n den = sqrt(den);\n\n if (den != 0.0) {\n\n t = radius / den; \n p2.x *= t; \n p2.y *= t; \n p2.z *= t;\n\n }\n den = (p3.x*p3.x)+(p3.y*p3.y)+(p3.z*p3.z); \n den = sqrt(den);\n if (den != 0.0) {\n\n t = radius / den; \n p3.x *= t; \n p3.y *= t; \n p3.z *= t;\n\n }\n den = (p4.x*p4.x)+(p4.y*p4.y)+(p4.z*p4.z); \n den = sqrt(den);\n if (den != 0.0) {\n\n t = radius / den; \n p4.x *= t; \n p4.y *= t; \n p4.z *= t;\n\n }\n\n subdivide_tri(&p1,&p2,&p3,freq);\n subdivide_tri(&p3,&p2,&p4,freq);\n\n }\n\n return;\n\n }\n\n#define norm_pt(v) { register double r = sqrt( ( ( v )->x * ( v )->x ) + \\\n ( ( v )->y * ( v )->y ) + \\\n ( ( v )->z * ( v )->z ) ); \\\n ( v )->x /= r; \\\n ( v )->y /= r; \\\n ( v )->z /= r; \\\n }\n\nsubdivide_tri(p1,p2,p3,a)\n\n struct Point_struct *p1, *p2, *p3;\n int a;\n\n {\n\n struct Point_struct n1, n2, n3;\n struct Point_struct p12, p13, p23;\n double den, t;\n\n if (a>0) {\n\n p12.x = (p1->x+p2->x)/2.0;\n p12.y = (p1->y+p2->y)/2.0;\n p12.z = (p1->z+p2->z)/2.0;\n den = (p12.x*p12.x)+(p12.y*p12.y)+(p12.z*p12.z); \n den = sqrt(den);\n if (den != 0.0) {\n\n t = radius / den;\n p12.x *= t; \n p12.y *= t; \n p12.z *= t;\n\n }\n p13.x = (p1->x+p3->x)/2.0;\n p13.y = (p1->y+p3->y)/2.0;\n p13.z = (p1->z+p3->z)/2.0;\n den = (p13.x*p13.x)+(p13.y*p13.y)+(p13.z*p13.z); \n den = sqrt(den);\n if (den != 0.0) {\n\n t = radius / den;\n p13.x *= t; \n p13.y *= t; \n p13.z *= t;\n\n }\n p23.x = (p2->x+p3->x)/2.0;\n p23.y = (p2->y+p3->y)/2.0;\n p23.z = (p2->z+p3->z)/2.0;\n den = (p23.x*p23.x)+(p23.y*p23.y)+(p23.z*p23.z); \n den = sqrt(den);\n if (den != 0.0) {\n\n t = radius / den;\n p23.x *= t; \n p23.y *= t; \n p23.z *= t;\n\n }\n subdivide_tri(p1, &p12,&p13,a-1);\n subdivide_tri(&p12, p2, &p23,a-1);\n subdivide_tri(&p13,&p23, p3, a-1);\n subdivide_tri(&p12,&p23,&p13,a-1);\n\n } else {\n\n n1.x = p1->x; \n n1.y = p1->y; \n n1.z = p1->z; \n norm_pt(&n1);\n n2.x = p2->x; \n n2.y = p2->y; \n n2.z = p2->z; \n norm_pt(&n2);\n n3.x = p3->x; \n n3.y = p3->y; \n n3.z = p3->z; \n norm_pt(&n3);\n\n/* nothing special about this poly */\n\n printf( \"%f %f %f %f %f %f\\n\", p1->x + xorg,\n p1->y + yorg,\n p1->z + zorg,\n n1.x, n1.y, n1.z );\n printf( \"%f %f %f %f %f %f\\n\", p2->x + xorg,\n p2->y + yorg,\n p2->z + zorg,\n n2.x, n2.y, n2.z );\n printf( \"%f %f %f %f %f %f\\n\", p3->x + xorg,\n p3->y + yorg,\n p3->z + zorg,\n n3.x, n3.y, n3.z );\n\n }\n\n return;\n\n }", "Hello, I am writing a program which forks of a number of child processes\nand each of the children printing things on the screen (quite messy in\none window)... \n\nThe \"xterm -Sxxd\" option seems to be the solution to opening up\nslave windows only to display output and I use the following code to\nopen up a pty (taken from Stevens)...and manage to open up an x-term\nsuccessfully.... \n\nThe problem however is how do I write into this x-term ? Please help!\n\n\nstatic char pty_name[12];\nint pty_master( void );\n\nint pty_master( void )\n{\n int i,fd;\n char* ptr;\n struct stat statbuff;\n static char ptychar[] = \"pqrs\";\n static char hexdigit[] = \"0123456789abcdef\";\n \n for( ptr = ptychar; *ptr!=0; ptr++ ) {\n strcpy( pty_name, \"/dev/ttyXY\" );\n pty_name[8] = *ptr;\n pty_name[9] = '0';\n \n if( stat( pty_name, &statbuff) < 0 )\n break;\n\n for( i=0; i < 16; i++ ) {\n pty_name[9] = hexdigit[i];\n if( (fd = open( pty_name, O_RDWR )) >= 0 )\n\treturn( fd );\n }\n }\n return(-1);\n}\n\n \n", "Having upgraded to a Supra 9600 Fax modem, my\nSupra 2400 Modem is for Sale at 50$ + S/H. Approx 1.3 years old.\nExcellent working condition.\n\nsend email rosen@ringer.cs.utsa.edu, or call at 210-691-5696.", "A friend of mine called me on the phone and told me he was wathcing CNN\nand saw a report that the ruling prohibiting AMD from selling their i486\nclones has been thrown out, making it legal for AMD to ship in the US.\nCan anyone out there verify this?", " No cache, also called 386DX.\n\n It has the same internals as the 386, is a real 32-bit processor, just has\n 16 bit hookup to the outside world.\n\n Yes, optimized 387 internal.\n Yes, 8K.\n Yes, but only a few instructions, nothing noteworthy.\n\n 486 with no coprocessor.\n\n Nope. Just another name for the 486.\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\nFrank Racis - FWR100@psuvm.psu.edu - fwr@eclu.psu.edu\nComputers are useless; they can only give answers.", "I am not a company, thus this is not a commercial sale. \n\nI purchased 256 T-shirts last fall for a fund raiser that fell through. \nWe didn't have the time to sell the shirts. I have about 175 shirts\nleft and I am willing to sell them to you for $5.25 a piece (more than a\ndollar discount of what you would have paid the supplier for the shirts,\neven in bulk) (That's $918.75 for 175 shirts) These shirts are Jim\nMorris T-shirts. They are all 100% cotton and most have more than 4\ncolors. (They are clean and neatly folded in a box. If any happen to\nbe damaged I will refund your money for each damaged shirt or replace\nit, your option.) You could sell them for at least $8 to $15 a piece\n(the higher number is for the nicer shirts) to raise money for a school\nevent or a organization. I realize it is a big investment, but it could\npay off big.\n\nI would be willing to sell the shirts in lots of 50 but only at $5.50 a\nshirt. I will pay shipping, but prefer local buyers and will give them\nmore bargaining power.\n\nPlease help me. I do not have the time to sell these shirts and I need\nthe money. I am taking a big loss by selling this cheap. I will give\nyou Jim Morris' phone number so that you can varify the prices.\n\nAll prices are negotiable.\n\n--Truman", "I have to increase the memory in a Plus or SE (I'm not sure which since\nI haven't seen it yet). I did this a few years ago but I no longer have the\ninstructions. I forget which resistor needs to be cut to go from 1 to 4 Mbs.", "Hi ... Recently I found XV for MS-DOS in a subdirectory of GNU-CC (GNUISH). I \nuse frequently XV on a Sun Spark Station 1 and I never had problems, but when I\nstart it on my computer with -h option, it display the help menu and when I\nstart it with a GIF-File my Hard disk turns 2 or 3 seconds and the prompt come\nback.\n\nMy computer is a little 386/25 with copro, 4 Mega rams, Tseng 4000 (1M) running\nMS-DOS 5.0 with HIMEM.SYS and no EMM386.SYS. I had the GO32.EXE too... but no\ndriver who run with it.\n\nDo somenone know the solution to run XV ??? any help would be apprecied..\n\t\t\n\tThanx in advance !!!! \n \n-- \n---------------------------------------------------------------------\n*\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t *\n* Pascal PERRET \t\t|\tperret@eicn.etna.ch *\n* Ecole d'ingénieur ETS\t|\t(Not Available at this time)*\n* 2400 Le LOCLE\t\t|\t\t\t\t *\n* Suisse \t\t\t\t\t\t\t *\n*\t\t !!!! Enjoy COMPUTER !!!!\t\t\t *\n*\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t *", "I have an internal modem that I configure as COM4 with IRQ 3, but\nwhen I insert that card into my DOS 5.02 PC, it shows up\nas COM3, with IRQ3 and COM4's address (2E8)!\n\nWhen I get into debug, and dump the data at 40:0, it shows\nthe address 2E8 as belonging to COM3 - even though the modem\nshould be at COM4.\n\nNow, I know the modem is working correctly since I have tested\nit in a different PC - and it shows up correctly as COM4, 2E8, IRQ3.\n\nTo make it work in the DOS 5.02 PC, I have to configure the\nmodem as COM3, 2E8, IRQ3---but though I have a comm program that\nallows that, the FAX program that came with the modem does not work.\nAnyway, I would like the computer to display the modem as it is set,\nas COM4...\nI did run a few diagnostic programs, and they did not help at all:\na few displayed the modem as COM4, and others displayed it as\nbeing COM3.\n\nI am not using Windows, this is just a DOS problem...Any help\nor pointers appreciated....\nFor various reasons, I must have this modem work at COM4, thus\nswitching COM ports is not an answer...\n\n(Last time I posted this, I did not get any DOS specific answer,\nthis time I have included all the specific information....please help!)\n\n-----\nAvinash Chopde\navinash@acm.org", "Hi fellow netters,\n\ndoes anybody have any info on Tseng Labs ET4000 VLB card:\nprice, speed, compatibility with existing and up-comming softwares,\nperformance compared to others cards ( is it an S3 based card ?)....", "\n: 3DO is still a concept.\n: The software is what sells and what will determine its\n: success.\n\n\nApparantly you dont keep up on the news. 3DO was shown\nat CES to developers and others at private showings. Over\n300 software licensees currently developing software for it.", "For Sale:\n\nTime Line for Windows by SYMANTEC\n\nNever Opened.. Still in wrap......\n\nRetails for $495.00 Asking $250.00\n\nSend E-Mail if interested.\n\nJonathan", "\nI'm not sure if this is free or shareware, but you can try to look to wsmrsimtel20.army.mil,\ndirectory PD1: file OCR104.ZIP .\nFrom the file SIMIBM.LST :\nOCR104.ZIP B 93310 910424 Optical character recognition for scanners.\n\nHope this helps.", "In my quest for speed, I've run into a problem. 66.66 mhz and 80 mhz\nclock oscillators are available but I haven't found any speeds between\n66.66 and 70 mhz for further testing. Fox Electronics (813) 693-0099 can make custom oscillators but if anyone knows a source cheaper than $12/osc please\nlet me know. Some 68 and 70 mhz units would complete my speed trials on the\nold Q700", "\n\n\n\n\nI've had very good results from the SSM2016 from PMI (part of Analogue\nDevices). They have also now introduced the SSM2017 which looks good on\npaper, but which I haven't tried yet.\n\nChristopher", "\n\n\nThink about what you are saying here. The 24 bit image is quantised down to 8\nbits so many 'similar' colours are mapped onto a single palette colour. This\ncolour gets modified in fairly arbitrary ways. You then want to apply these\nmodifications back to the 24 bit file, so you have to find which colours mapped\nto this one palette colour. Ok you could do this by copying the 24 bit file to a\n32 bit file and using the extra 8 bits to hold the index entry. \nHaving done this, you need to do something to them ... what, exactly?\n\nApply the difference in RGB between the original and modified palette entry to\neach colour in the group? This could generate colours with RGB outside the range\n0...255. It would also lead to discontinuities when different parts of a smooth\ncolour gradient mapped to several different palette entries.\n\nYou could interpolate from full modification to no modification depending how\nfar each colour was from the palette entry. However I suspect this would look\nrather odd.\n\nSo in summary, what I said in my previous posting still holds:\n\n\n\nIn other words, to edit a 24 bit file you need software built for the job.\nTacking mods onto xv is going to create more problems than it solves.\n\nAs to the other bits - you seemed to be claiming that there were bugs in XV. If\nthat was not what you meant, then:\n\n\nYes, I probably did. I found that the collected digest format of your posting\nmade it a little difficult to understand precisely what your point was. Sorry\nif I misunderstood.\n\n\nYes again. What *is* (was?) wrong with xv?\n\n--\nChris Lilley\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTechnical Author, ITTI Computer Graphics and Visualisation Training Project\nComputer Graphics Unit, Manchester Computing Centre, Oxford Road, \nManchester, UK. M13 9PL Internet: C.C.Lilley@mcc.ac.uk \nVoice: +44 (0)61 275 6045 Fax: +44 (0)61 275 6040 Janet: C.C.Lilley@uk.ac.mcc", "Anyone here know if NCD is doing educational pricing on these software\npackages for those of us strapped for cash?\n\nThanks\n\n=eugene=\ns\n\n", "Guess the subject says it all.\n I would like references to any introductory material on Image\n Databases.\n Please send any pointers to mini@point.cs.uwm.edu\n\n Thanx in advance!\n \n\n\n", "\nIf you are interested in a program which is very easy to use, I strongly \nsuggest Approach 2.0. It is extremely easy to use, make reports, etc. I\nown both it and Paradox, and I almost never use Paradox. If you need to \nbuild up a complicated application, then Paradox is the way to go. I have\nheard horror stories about the Access programming being extremely cryptic.\nSince you seem like you will probably be doing fairly small stuff (work/\nhome use and you have not used a database before), I recommend Approach. I \nhave found only one small thing which I would like it to do more easily:\nI have one database where the order in which the records are entered must \nbe different than what is the logical ordering. To permanently reorder (to \nuse the old DBASE III command) the records requires sorting the records \nappropriately (no problem, since I almost always use them in this order)\nexporting the database to another database (which can still be an Approach \ndatabase), and then copying the exported files back to the original \nfilename. This is a small weakness, considering the other items I really \nlike about Approach. It is also a little slower than Paradox (other than \nthe loading, Paradox takes forever and a minute to load). Paradox also \ntakes a lot of memory (both hard disk (around 12MB) and RAM).", "\nAlso photoshopII is out soon, has anyone got a date and any cofmments?\nAndy\n\n _______________________________________________________\n | Andrew Leahy | aleahy@cch.coventry.ac.uk | Odd FROG |\n ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~", "\n\n\n\nThere is a library of map projections in:\n\n charon.er.usgs.gov\n\nin", "Perhaphs what Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are now is the result of the\nnatural evolution of a \"successful\" hacker. Either you make money, go\nto jail (Lee Feldenstein [sp?]), or just fade away as \"Oh, that's uncle\nso-and-so who *really* likes computers...\".\n\nWhat a \"computer hacker\" is and does will change as long as the definition\nof the word \"computer\" continues to change.\n", "Does anyone know of an X server for character cell terminals?\nDoesn't have to be anything fancy, as long is it works.\n", "\n\nI believe it's XtVaAppInitialize or something like that.\n\n--", "Could some kind soul please email ma a response since i don't have\nmuch time to read this group.\n\n Question: I have a 170 MB hard drive which currently has 10 MB left.\nHow much space will DoubleSpace allow me to have?? I have a 486 50 w/ 4\nMB Ram if it matters.\n\n\nThanks in advance\n\nJason\n\n-- \n Jason Brown\ncs1442au@decster.uta.edu", "\ndale> I found an oddity with our SGI Indigo (MIPS R3000 chip).\ndale> When xlock +nolock is running, and I am working remotely\ndale> or in batch (at) mode, the runtime of my programs (as timed\ndale> by using clock() in the code itself) is ~25% slower than if\ndale> xlock is NOT running. No other processes seem to affect my\ndale> runtimes, yet this is very consistent!\n\nUnless you run `xlock -mode blank`, xlock consumes CPU time generating\nthe nice animated display. The code you are running is competing with\nxlock for the CPU. If you run top (via a remote login), you can really\nsee what is going on.\n\n=-=-=\n", "What is the directory .X11-unix for in /tmp? When I start\nx, it is created by the system. This directory wasn't created \nby root, and it contains an empty file (X0) that is owned by me. \n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t", "In evolution of 80-x86 data path width has been doubled from \n8 to 16 t0 32 bits but the speed of data processing has not increased at\nsame rate.The question is Why? What is relationship bettween data path width and data processing speed?\nThanks in advance for the input.\nRobert. \n", "\n\nI think you need the EMM386.EXE noems\nThis will let the expanded mem be active but not use any, therefore\nthis will give you more extended mem for windows yet have all the\nbases covered.\n\n\n\nI do not use dos6 so I am not familiar with this.\n\nc-ya..... /\\/\\artin", "I'm having an X resource problem using Brian Wilson's wscrawl 2.0\n(a wonderful interactive conferencing program, by the way). I'm \nrunning OpenWindows 3.0 on a SPARC 1+ under OS 4.1.3. I have\nthe following defaults in my .Xdefaults file (among many others):\n wscrawl.telePointerName:\tKevin\n wscrawl.syncScrollbars:\t\tTrue\n wscrawl.continuousTelePointer:\tTrue\n wscrawl.showPointerCoordinates:\tFalse\n wscrawl*background:\t\tLightBlue\n wscrawl*swindow*foreground:\tyellow\n wscrawl*draw_area_frame*foreground:\tBlue\n wscrawl*keyboardFocusPolicy:\tpointer\n\nNaturally, I exited the server and restarted it after adding\nthose lines to .Xdefaults .\n\nIf I run the following from a cmdtool (pwd = my home dir.):\n xrdb -m .Xdefaults\nand then start up wscrawl, then all those defaults are used\nproperly. Wonderful, yes? Except that I can't get them to be\noperative except by *manually* invoking the afore-mentioned\nxrdb command. If I try:\n xrdb .Xdefaults\nthe defaults \"won't take.\"\n\nSo, I tried to change the xrdb call in my .xinitrc file from:\n xrdb $HOME/.Xdefaults\nto:\n xrdb -m $HOME/.Xdefaults\n\nNo go. So I tried adding in:\n xrdb -m /home/kbw/.Xdefaults\nat the beginning or end of my .openwin-init file. Still no go.\n\nAny notions what gives? Thanks for the help.", "\n\nBusLogic just announced the BT445 FAST SCSI-2 VLB Interface as of\nApril 20. This always happens to me!\n\nI have a one week old BT545S which is the ISA version. I am\nenjoying spectacular performance with a Micropolis MC2105 560mb 10ms\n3.5\" HH 5200 RPM drive. I'll be changing to the BT445 VERY soon,\nthough it is difficult to imagine even higher transfer speeds with\nthe 32bit VESA support.\n\nYou can call BusLogic and ask 'em about the NT question. I hear that\nthe support is excellent. I have not had to call them myself yet.\nRegards.", "\n\nThere is one reason: market size.\n\nThe market size for color quickdraw for accellerated plusses and\nSEs (which don't go beyond 4 MB anyway) is just too small; the\nextra cost would belike $1,000 and with that money, you can buy a\ncolor classic instead.\n\nCheers,\n\n\t\t\t\t\t/ h+\n-- \n -- Jon W{tte, h+@nada.kth.se, Mac Hacker Deluxe --", "Great, the first advantage of cheap coax, I've ever heard.\n\nCheers Robert (HB9NBY)\n", "Hello,\n\nin the EDN magazine I found a note about the new C&T 82C735\nI/O Controller. It support several parallel port protocols,\nincluding\n\tFast Centronics\n\tMicrosoft Enhanced Capabilities Protocol (ECP)\n\tEnhanced Parallel Port (EPP)\nThe last two handle data rates up to 2Mbytes/sec.\n\nIs there any specification about these protocols available?\n\nRegards,\n\n\tChristian Franke", "Does anyone know where to get a schematic for a micro stepping circuit?\nAny help would be appreciated.\nmcole@nmsu.edu\n", "I have MANY questions for all you experts out there pertaining to apple's\nbuilt-in video. \n\n#1, Do all macs that have built-in video have the ability to use VGA monitors?\n#2, If so/if not, which macs have this capability?\n#3, Can they drive SVGA as well?\n#4, how big of a vga monitor can they drive?\n#5, how can you tell if an unlabeled monitor is VGA? By the pinouts?\n if so, what should it look like?\n\nParticularly, i'm interested in knowing if the si or ci drive VGA, as well\nas the LC's capabilities in driving VGA/SVGA", "This may be a fairly routine request on here, but I'm looking for a fast\npolygon routine to be used in a 3D game. I have one that works right now, but\nits very slow. Could anyone point me to one, pref in ASM that is fairly well\ndocumented and flexible?\n\tThanx,\n //Lucas.\n", "==============================\n GASPRA ANIMATION\n March 12, 1993\n ==============================\n\n The Gaspra animation is now available at the Ames Space Archives in \nQuickTime format. The animation was formed from 11 images taken by the \nGalileo spaecraft shortly before its closest approach to the asteroid in \nOctober 1991. The animation is available using anonymous ftp to:", "On export.lcs.mit.edu directory contrib, and avahi.inria.fr directory pub/xpm:\nxpm-3.2f-to-3.2g.patch.Z\nxpm-3.2g.tar.Z\n\n/* Copyright 1990-93 GROUPE BULL -- See license conditions in file COPYRIGHT */\n/**************************************************************************\\\n* \t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t *\n* \t\t\tHISTORY of user-visible changes\t\t\t *\n* \t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t *\n\\**************************************************************************/\n\n3.2g\t(93/04/26)\n\n ENHANCEMENTS:\n\t- much faster close colors\n\t- piping from/to compressed files now handles GNU's gzip (.z) format\n\t- added XpmColorKey attribute - ability to specify which visual's\n\t colors to use (ie: now it's possible to read in a pixmap in a\n\t color visual, but use the colors specified for monochrome).\n\t- added -mono, -grey4, -grey and -color options to sxpm to demonstrate\n\t the XpmColorKey attribute.\n\t\t- Jason Patterson \n\n BUGS CORRECTED:\n\t- fixed bug where redefining \"None\" as a pixel stopped mask generation\n\t- minor SVR4 defines for \n\t- fixed annoying closecolor bug related to read/write color cells\n\t- fixed minor bug in color value -> pixel overloading\n\t- manual updated to include new red/green/blue closeness attributes\n\t\t- Jason Patterson \n\n\t- the top Imakefile was missing the depend target\n\t- sxpm/Imakefile fixed so that -L../lib is set before the standard\n\t library location.\n\t\t- Vivek Khera \n\n\t- lib/xpmP.h now defines bcopy as memcpy for VMS (required by recent\n\t versions of VMS)\n\t\t- J. Daniel Smith \n\n\t- the lib/Imakefile didn't work with X11R4.\n", "I saw once an article about a new line of Macs configured to\t\nwork more optimally as file servers. \t\nAnyone know any more details?\n", "I know this isn't the EXACT right place to put this, but im desperate!\n\nI'll be going home for the summer, and wont have direct access to my\nVAX account....My problem is, i need a service that doesn't charge body\nparts, vital organs, or my first born son, that allows me access to the\ninternet! All i really need is to be able to TELNET to my school account,\nand from there I can do anything I need to do. ANY HELP WILL BE GREATLY\nAPPRECIATED!!!!!!!!!!!", "\n\nJust a follow-up note, I have sold the receiver, so don't e-mail or call \nme anymore. Sorry to dissapoint anyone.", "For Sale:\n\nFujitsu 324meg SCSI drive. $450\n\nMaxtor 338meg ESDI drive. $425\n\nMaxtor 160meg ESDI drive. $225\n\nToshiba 106meg IDE drive. $175\n\nXT case & motherboard. $50\n\nDTC 16-bit MFM 2HD 2FD controler. $30\n\nAll items are used, in full working condition, and have a \nwarranty for one week unless otherwise specified. All prices \nare %100 negotiable, shipping not included. \n\nWanted: \n\nDevelopers kit for SB\n17\" SVGA moniters (two of them).\n\n", "lioness@maple.circa.ufl.edu:\n\npmartz@dsd.es.com (Paul Martz):\n\nlioness@maple.circa.ufl.edu:\n\npmartz@dsd.es.com (Paul Martz):\n\n For both these questions, it's an inclusive or. Alpha plus stencil is\nsupported (they're separate), as is double-buffered stereo.", "\n\n\nFor a good display, you *must* get an active matrix panel and a *very*\nbright overhead projector designed to be used with an LCD panel (i.e.\nstage must not get too hot). I tried out a Proxima Ovation unit and liked\nit, but I needed a brighter projector (I used it with a 3M 920). It is\nalso too expensive for what you get, IMHO. Prices of active matrix panels\nare rumoured to drop substantially sometime this year (something to do\nwith tarrifs being lifted I think). \n\nIn Canadian dollars, the Proxima Ovation models ranged in price from about\n$5000 to $7000 and a good overhead projector about $1000 to $1500. For\nthat kind of money, you can get a brighter image from a three beam\nprojector, but sacrifice portability.", "A while ago I saw some translucent pads, about 6\"x8\" or so that \ncould be plugged into (something) and they would glow. One was red, \nanother green, another blue. Interresting. I was wondering if anyone \nwould have a feed on anything of this nature, and of the price.\n oh, the pads were rubber-like and were floppy like, about 1cm thick or \nso.\n \n Thanks.\n \n \n _________________________________________________\n Inspiration | ___ |\n comes to | \\ o baden@sys6626.bison.mb.ca |\n those who | ( ^ ) baden@inqmind.bison.mb.ca |\n seek the | /-\\ =] Baden de Bari [= |\n unknown. | |", "Hello...\n\n Does anyone know of any C or C++ function libraries in the public domain\n that assist in parsing an AUTOCAD .dxf file? \n\n Please e-mail.\n\n\n Thanks,\n\n-- ", "Hi, Everyone.\nI am currently planning to write a program that traverses the\nimage of handwritten characters in ascii format and produces\ncircle and line representation of handwritten characters.\nDid anybody out there has any experiences on this problem?\nIf you have would you post or e-mail to please\nkevin\n\nDoes anyone has program that traverse the digital image and produces\ncircle and line\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nKEVIN SHIN kshin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com", "Well, I'm amazed at how successful this exercise was. I received 20\nresponses and 4 requests for summary. Thanks to everyone who made it\npossible.\n\nOn my own I was able to find out about Codebase, Accsys, and Q+E. Codebase\nand Accsys are C libraries without SQL. Q+E is a Windows application\nthat can be communicated through Windows DDE calls, where you send a SQL\nstring and receive the results.\n\nMost people wrote to tell me about the Paradox Engine from Borland. Other \nproducts mentioned were: Microsoft's ODBC, Accsys, Quadbase, Codebase,\nRBASE, and Q+E. Only ODBC, Quadbase, RBASE, and Q+E have SQL.\n\nFor myself, I decided on Codebase, mostly because it has an ANSI C\nportability version that runs under DOS, UNIX, etc, and includes the\nsource code, and portability is important in my application. It works\nwith DBASE, FoxPro, or Clipper files.\n\nHowever, I feel that Microsoft's ODBC looks very promising.\nIt's mostly a formalisation of building and submitting SQL queries, and\nformatting query results. As the responses say, it's available via ftp,\nexcept it's effectively unusuable without two manuals:\nthe \"ODBC Programmer's Reference\" and the \"ODBC SDK Guide\". Moreover,\nODBC doesn't actually interpret SQL and liase with databases, that's \nup to drivers that should be provided by database manufacturers. Also,\nit's Windows only (it's actually an extension to the Windows SDK). \nNevertheless, it's a start at a SQL interface standard, and should\nmake life interesting in the future.\n\nHere's my original post, followed by the responses, separated by \na line of asterisks (*).\n\n\n****************************************************************************\n\nBorland has a product called Paradox Engine that does just what you want. \nThe current version is 3.0, which is fully compatible with (ack) Paradox\n4.0. (Why the versions are different, I don't know. PD Engine 2.0 was\ncompatible with Pdox 3.0 and 3.5...). It consists of a rather broad\nlibrary of functions for accesing database files from both Pascal (I think\nturbo Pascal 5.5 and up) and C (I think either Microsoft or Borland).\n\nNow.. reading the box... it's \"Borland Paradox Engine & Database\nFrameworks\". Works with any Borland C/C++, Mocrosoft C 6.01 or later,\nTurbo C++ for Windows, Turbo Pascal 6.0 or later, TP for Windows 1.0 or\nlater. For Framework applications, BC++ 3.0 or later or MS C/C++ 7.0. It\ndoes have support for object useage...\n\nI haven't had a real chance to really use it myself... but it looks fairly\ncomplete... I'm planning to use it this summer.\n-Rick\n-- \n+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+\n+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+\n\n****************************************************************************\n\nBorland has a product which is called Paradox Engine. \nI do not know about MS.\n\nThe paradox engine I know very well, and it definitiely\nnot a replacement for SQL, but it will enable you to\nsave and restore records, has locking, et al. Supposedly\nthe Paradox for Windows was impemented on top of it.\n\n\n---------------------------------------------------------\n\nCharles Parker\t\t\t Phone.(800) 669 9165\nTechnical Support\t\t\t(617) 498 3321\nCenterLine Software, Inc.\t Fax.(617) 868 6655\n\ncparker@centerline.com\n cyberspace\nmomma, don't let yer children grow up to be ^ cowboys ...\n---------------------------------------------------------\n\n\n****************************************************************************\n\nI know Borland has a library of routines for accessing PARADOX from within\na C program. They recently came out with version 3.0. This works with both\nBorland and Microsoft's C compiler.\n\n\t\t\t\tshailesh bhobe\n\t\t\t\t(708) 979-7101\n\t\t\t\tatt!psp!smb2\n\n\n****************************************************************************\n\n MS has put their ODBC SDK into the public domain; it's\n _big_ (I believe 1.8 MB), but worth downloading over a\n fast link. Look at ftp.uu.net in vendor/microsoft/odbc-sdk.\n\n Also some companies are starting to provide SQL engines; I\n just got one for RBASE, not exactly cheap at $450, but it\n allows programs in C or VBASIC (under DOS or Windows) to talk\n to data bases using SQL functions in your code.\n\n hth\n\n Walter Knopf\n Fermilab\n\n knopf@fnal.fnal.gov\n\n\n****************************************************************************\n\n Check out the ODBC toolikt from Microsoft. It is available on\nftp.uu.net:vendor/microsoft/odbc-sdk. This is the way that we've\nchosen to access databases from all of our apps.\nmj\n-- \n+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+\n+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+\n\n\n****************************************************************************\n\nBorland sells the \"Paradox Engine\" which is a C language interface to\nParadox, dBase, Btrieve, ans ASCI files. They also sell \"Database Frameworks\"\nwhich includes the engine plus a collection (with source) of C++ classes\nfor using the engine.\n\n-- \nEarl Roethke\neroethke@ems.cdc.com\n\n\n****************************************************************************\n\nI actualy have Paradox Engine. It is a library of functions (large model)\nfor accessing the Paradox's databases. It seems to be working fine,\nbut I never did try it thouroughly. It costs ~200$.\n\nHope it will help you...\n\n\nFrom: David Lefebvre \n\n****************************************************************************\n\nBorland provides a database lib called Paradox Engine which can access\nand use the database files aswell as many other things.\n\nGary.\n\n-- \n``````````` bell@nellads.cc.monash.edu.au `````````````````````````````````````\n\n****************************************************************************\n\nParadox Engine is the library for Paradox .\n\n\nArtur Babecki\nartur@ii.uj.edu.pl\n\n****************************************************************************\n\nBorland sells the Paradox Engine -- which has all the Paradox calls in it.\nIts hardly SQL though. You can do searches on key fields and on \nindivual fields, but no comparison operators like <, >=....\n\nso its pretty painful (in my opinion) do do anything besides simple\nretrieval and inserts/updates.\n\nI'm currently using it (I have an eval copy..) and I've linked it in to\nsome entry screens I've written.\n\nThe Engine library adds about 100K to the size of the program, but you can\nload it as an overlay using Borland's VROOM manager.\n\nNow Borland claims that later versions of the engine will have SQL support\nbut they don't really expect it till late in the year... or even next year\nThey are trying to get thrid parties to help out..\n\nIf you have any other questions -- let me know...\n\nMike Kamlet\nmike@vpnet.chi.il.us\n\n\n****************************************************************************\n\nYes, borland sells their Paradox Engine separately. It has C, C++, and\nPascal interfaces, although the underlying interface is in 'C'. Well at\nleast for version 2.0 of the Engine which I have (costed $99 at Egghead).\nThey now have version 3.0 of the engine, and a separate C++ class package\nfor it.\n\n\n-- \nMichael D. Kersenbrock\nADC Kentrox - Portland, Oregon\nmichaelk@kentrox.com\nuunet!kentrox!michaelk\n\n\n****************************************************************************\n\nI've used AccSys for Paradox (new version is almost ready for Paradox\n4.0) to access Paradox files from C. Its pretty good. Not SQL\nthough. Have heard of Borland Paradox Engine or some such which is\nsupposed to do likewise, but not sure of what it is exactly.\n\nHope this helps, good luck!\nchris\n\nFrom: fernand@slinky.cs.nyu.edu (Christopher Fernandes)\n\n****************************************************************************\n\nBorland sells their \"Paradox Engine (3.0)\". It's a library of functions\nfor accessing paradox DB files. It comes with libraries for:\nMS C 7.0\nBCC 3.1\nTurbo Pascal (v??)\nand I believe it comes with Turbo Pascal/Win libraries as well.\nThe C libraries come in both DOS and Windows flavors (the win stuff \nbeing dll's). \n\nWhen I got it, it also came with Crystal Reports which\nis a graphical report generator. It allows you to create a generic\nform and use it within a compiled program using Pdox Engine. I don't\nknow if they still offer it or what the current price is, I paid \nsomething like $50-$60 for an upgrade from the earlier version though...\n\nHope this helps...\n\n-David Taylor\n---\n\n\n****************************************************************************\n\n\nIf you want to do SQL from within your programs, check out QuadBase. I don't\nhave their address oops -- yes I do! :\nQuadBase Systems, Inc.\n790 Lucerne Dr #51\nSunnyvale, CA 94086 (USA)\n\nphone: 408-738-6989 (voice) 408-738-6980 (fax)\n\nAsk for the SQL/Win demo disk.\n\nIt looked good to me (I have a background in embedded SQL in Ingres -- this\nlooked real similar). It's a little expensive, but if you order the demo\nand then just wait they will probably send you a special offer that'll\nprobably run about $500 US. Good luck!\n\nBest,\n Tom DeLosh\n\nFrom: delosh@emunix.emich.edu (Tom Delosh)\n\n\n****************************************************************************\n\nBorland has the Paradox Engine library. It has libraries for\nboth C and Pascal to access Paradox files under DOS/Windows. \nBut for Paradox, I believe you'd have buy have the SQL Link \nsince Pdox itself isn't SQL compliant. I've used the engine \nfor over a year now and have been pretty satisfied with it. \nUnder DOS, it's a real pig. It tacks on about 120K to the size of \nyour programs.\n\ntim ma\nassociate programmer\nuniversity of utah\nemail: tim@src.cppa.utah.edu\n\n****************************************************************************\n\nI don't know about Microsoft, but Borland sells the Paradox Engine for C/C++ &\nPascal (in one package). And if you want dBase compatible files there is a \nlibrary called CodeBase from Sequiter software that works with C/C++.\n\nFrom: davidr@rincon.ema.rockwell.com (David J. Ray)\n\n\n****************************************************************************\n\n\nWe're using Q+E database libraries to do what you describe.\nIt's a set of DLL's accessed through a common API to talk to most of the\nmajor database formats. We're using it to build an application that\nqueries several databases using SQL queries. _All_ access using Q+E is\ndone using SQL. The package is available through Microway in Melbourne. I\nbelieve it is produced by Pioneer Systems in the US. We have no\nassociation with Microway or Pioneer Systems other than being satisfied\ncustomers. Feel free to mail me for further information.\n\nChris \n(Programming for NSW National Parks and Wildlife Service)\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nChris Hutchinson Box U302\nResearch Programmer University of New England\nchris@sulaw.law.su.OZ.AU Armidale NSW 2351\n(067) 727 014\n\n\n****************************************************************************\n\nParadox Engine 3.0 provides a complete set of C libraries for \naccessing Paradox tables. However, it seems that it supports \nonly Borland/Turbo C and MicroSoft C. When I tried to compile \nthe engine's sample applications with the Waterloo WATCOM C/C++\n(32-bit) compiler, it complains that the library file LLIBCE.LIB \nis missing even though I am quite certain that the file is NOT\npart of WATCOM C or the engine. Anybody have any success with \nother C compilers?\n\nRon.K.Ng@hydro.on.ca\n--------------------\n\n\n****************************************************************************\n\nI'm currently developing an app. with Borland's \"Paradox Engine\nfor C\" (it also comes in Pascal), which has recently gone to version 3.0\n(I.e., PX Engine 3.0 is compatible with Paradox 4.0, and downward compat.\nw/3.5). There are indeed C libs for Fox access, but I can't think of the\nnames offhand - I'm sure someone has already written you in that regard -\n(I think I just saw an add for a Fox lib in the \"C Users Journal\", which\nis a good place to look for this type of package in general, by the way).\nI've been paying my dues to learn a lot of the quirks of PX Eng. over the\npast year - wouldn't recommend it for a complex multiuser app.--but I'm\nstaying with it for now--it's like a bad marriage: I've got too much time\ninvested in learning and work-arounds! But if your interest is limited\nto a simple single-user interface (you want to build your own SQL engine,\nI take it), PX Engine will do the job easily - it doesn't sound like\nyou'll be bumping into any of the gotchas. If you do, write me; I may\nbe able to point you in the right direction.\n\nFrom: raymond@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (raymond)\n\n****************************************************************************\n\nBorland has a \"Paradox Engine and Database Framework 3.0\" which gives you\na \"C\" (and assembler?) API to Paradox databases. This is part of \"BOCA\"\n-- Borland's Object Component Architecture. They have technical briefs\non BOCA, PdoxEng, and other products of theirs.\n\nFrom: jdm@jumbo.Read.TASC.COM (James D. McNamara)\n------------------- James D. McNamara | TASC --------------------\n55 Walkers Brook Drive | Reading, MA 01867-3238 | 617-942-2000x2948\n\n****************************************************************************\n", "Hi,\nVLB is defined for 3 cards by 33MHz\nand 2 cards by 40MHz\n\nthere are designs with 50MHz and 2 VLB-Slots.\n(s. C't 9.92, 10.92, 11.92)\n\n50MHz and 2 Slots are realy difficult to design.", "Is there a way I can save a snapshot of my screen to a file, under\nWindows? (Similar to the way one can press CMD-SHIFT-3 on a Mac.)\n\nPlease email rather than posting.", "I read about the development of EISA-2 some time ago but dismissed it\nin light of the intense interest in VESA and PCI. However, I recently\nwas disheartened to hear that ISA cannot address more than 16mb of RAM,\na limit that too many of us will hit all too soon.\n\nI recall that EISA-2 will support 64-bit transfer among other enhancements.\nIs there such a standard being developed?\n", "hi guys\n like all people in this group i'm a fans of fractal and render sw\n my favourite are fractint pov & 3dstudio 2.0 \n now listen my ideas\n i'have just starting now to be able to use 3dstudio quite well\n so i'm simulating a full animation of a f1 grand prix\n unfortanatly just some lap(10?)\n i' m very interested about all kind of .prj .3ds and so on\n concerning about cars or parts of its (motors wheel ...)\n (dxf are good enough)\n does anyone have object to give me to complete my hard animation\n\n\n anyway any exchanges about object material project will\n be VERY APRECIATE!!!!!\n\n is there a ftp site where I can find its?\n\n i' m looking for .pov files too\n (i 'm interested about cpu time comparision rendering images on\n pov & 3dstusio)\n\n thank to all\n", "I'm looking for shading methods and algorithms.\nPlease let me know if you know where to get source codes for that.\n\nThanks a lot!\n\nThomas\n\n\n+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+\n+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+\n ", "\n\n\n\n\n\nIn addition to startup time, I leave things running because my PC doubles as \na fax machine. \n\nHowever, this is off the original subject. I didn't get the replies on BIOS, \nCMOS, and DOS clock/date logic. All I know is that I've been running this way \nfor many months and it is only recently, the last month, that I have noticed \nthe intermittent clock problem. As I stated, it is not always the date that \ndoesn't roll forward, sometimes I notice that the clock is several minutes \nbehind where it ought to be. \n\nWhen unattended, the following are generally running minimized in Win 3.1:\n\nClock, WinFax Pro 3.0, Print Manager, MS-Word 1.1, File Manager, Program \nManager\n\nA random screen saver is generally running too.\n\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\nWHAT??!!!!\n\nYou can't remove it, unless you register? \nYou gotta be joking, right?\nWhat happens if I get a demo-version of that program, install it, and then\ndecide that I don't like it. Do I have to register to be able to get rid\nof it? (Hell, no, that is the last thing I would think of!)\nIf that is what you mean, then you would better make pretty sure, that a\nstatement to that effect is printed loud and clear on the package!\n\n\nA better way to implement the above mentioned scheme is (IMHO) to allow\nanyone to install the program, but if they register, they get some\nadditional features enabled. It could mean only one new .EXE file needed\nto be copied, to have got the full-version of the program.\nOf course anyone is _free_ to _delete_ or _remove_ that program at whatever\ntime they like.\n\nStill, we face the trouble of 'moving' the new .EXE file around. That\ncould be solved by having the user registering him self, and get back a\nspecially marked for him (or her) a new .exe file.\n\n\nAs for some sort of limitations, here are some suggestions:\nLimit the size of data that the program can work with,\nDisable saving the data,\nPrint it out with some defects in the output (but be sure to mark them as\nsuch)\nLet some pop-up screen appear for ca. 10 secs. when the program is started\nand/or exited\n\netc....\nbut DON'T have it that you _must_ register to be able to remove it.\n\n\n", "\nJust look at the pbmplus package; it does everything you could ever ask\nfor in converting pbm to almost any format (gif, tga, pcx etc...)", "I have a 24-pin printer which is an ALPs Allegro24. It's both a fast\nprinter with LQ and a very sophisticated design. It has a straight paper\npath and the capability of auto-forwarding sheets to tear off and then back\n(a big paper saver as you never have to waste sheets to get a current\nprint out). It can also handle single sheets without removing the formfeed\nand has sophisticated preferences options (you can interactively program\nall the preferences to control the printer and get printed feedback without\never using a computer). You get prompts and menus to pick your current setup\nand default set up. This was THE top of the line LQ dot matrix when I bought\nit three years ago for $399. It is also Epson LQ2500 compatible (besides it's\nown modes) and comes with IBM driver software (which I've never used since I\nown an Amiga). Has a card slot for upgrading memory or fonts.\n\n I'll let it go for $150 including shipping prepaid. COD orders must pay\nall shipping and COD costs.\n\n Adisak Pochanayon - 608-238-2463\n\n-------\n\n Also a light gun and UFORCE controller for Nintendo but with PD driver\nsoftware to use them on the Amiga. The light gun is fully remote (no wires).\nBest offer over $75 ($30 less than my cost and they are both brand new).\n\n---------------------------------- CUT HERE ----------------------------------\n\n Jeez!!! It never fails, get in the tub and there's a rub at the lamp!\n-- The Genie from Aladdin.\n\n pochanay@cae.wisc.edu eddie (Adisak) Pochanayon\n Check out all of SilverFox SoftWare's Releases.... your Amiga entertainment.", "Some pixels on my PB 140 display disappear intermittently. They are not in\na particular place but random. If anybody has suggestions I would appreciate\ne-mailings. Thanks.\n\n", "Hey everybody:\n\n I want to buy a mac and I want to get a good price...who doesn't? So,\ncould anyone out there who has found a really good deal on a Centris 650\nsend me the price. I don't want to know where, unless it is mail order or\nareound cleveland, Ohio. Also, should I buy now or wait for the Power PC.\n\nThanks.\nBoB\nreply via post or e-mail at rrn@po.cwru.edu\n-- \n---------------------------------------------------------------------- \nRobert Novitskey | \"Pursuing women is similar to banging one's head\nrrn@po.cwru.edu | against a wall...with less opportunity for reward\" ", "Ok, I have a problem that I thought you guys/gals might know about....\n\nI'm running a 286dx-25 with a 85mb hdd. I also have windows 3.1, but\nhardly any dos application will run out it. Also, when I do a \"mem\"\ncommand, it says that I have used up 58kb out of 640kb of conventional\nmemory, zero from upper level memory, and all 385kb of my ems memory.\nAnd to top it off, I can't load any device drivers into upper memory.\nDo I just need more memory? Also, why would it use up ems memory instead\nof upper memory?\n\nPlease reply by e-mail only to : wes1574@tamvenus.tamu.edu\n\n\n\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\nBill Scrivener | \"It's not the first time that you\nTexas A&M University | sleep with a woman that matters,\nCollege Station, Texas | but the first time\nemail: wes1574@tamvenus.tamu.edu | you wake up with her.\"", "Has an X version of whois been written out there? If so, where can I ftp it\nfrom? Thanks.\n", "\nIt's made by (SURPRISE) National Instruments:\n6504 Bridge Point Parkway\nAustin, TX 78730-5039\n(800) 433-3488\nanonymouse ftp at: ftp.natinst.com\n\nTheir 1991 catalog lists the NB-8G as follows:\n\nfetch and deposit DMA controller (8 channels)\nIEEE-488 interface with data rates up to 850 kB/sec, with DMA and\nprogrammed I/O\n transfers\n8 16-bit counter timer channels\nRTSI bus (that's the connector on the top of the board - it links it with\n other National Instrument boards\nList price of $1295", "I \"think\" you should try linking to /usr/lib/libXmu.a instead of \n-lXmu. At least that solved the problem for me!\n\n\n", "I find that it's always (almost anyway) busy when I dial, but if I try repeatedly, usually only 5 to 15 tries, I always get connected.\n\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nTry setting up another HPIII printer but when choosing what port to connect it\nto choose FILE instead of like :LPT1. This will prompt you for a file name\neverytime you print with that \"HPIII on FILE\" printer. Good Luck.\n", "\n\nLocal LA stores have already reduced prices by $200 on most Duo\nconfigurations\n(although Apple dropped the list price by $310).", "I have not seen articles in comp.graphics.research for a long time.\nDoes it/he work anymore?\n\nI have seen many conference related postings in comp.graphics,\nand it is hard to believe that people have not tried to post them to\nc.g.research.\n\nIf somebody has not got his article to comp.graphics.research, then\nwrite to me or post here.\n", "\nAnd here is the first patch :-) The following fixes some problems with the\nImakefile files and makes it possible to compile xv-3.00 under Solaris without \nhaving to use the ucb stuff:\n\n*** 1.1\t1993/04/28 06:05:03\n--- Imakefile\t1993/04/28 08:20:35\n***************\n*** 209,215 ****\n OBJS4=\txcmap.o\n \n PROGRAMS= xv bggen vdcomp xcmap\n! \n \n #if defined(HaveJpeg) || defined(HaveTiff)\n # ifdef HaveJpeg\n--- 209,218 ----\n OBJS4=\txcmap.o\n \n PROGRAMS= xv bggen vdcomp xcmap\n! all::\n! \t@echo \"\"\n! \t@echo \" Did you remember to 'make depend' first?\"\n! \t@echo \"\"\n \n #if defined(HaveJpeg) || defined(HaveTiff)\n # ifdef HaveJpeg\n***************\n*** 222,238 ****\n SUBDIRS = tiff\n # endif\n # define PassCDebugFlags\n MakeSubdirs($(SUBDIRS))\n- DependSubdirs($(DUBDIRS))\n #endif\n \n \n all::\n- \t@echo \"\"\n- \t@echo \" Did you remember to 'make depend' first?\"\n- \t@echo \"\"\n- \n- all::\n \t@echo \" building xv ...\"\n \t@echo \"\"\n \n--- 225,236 ----\n SUBDIRS = tiff\n # endif\n # define PassCDebugFlags\n+ # define IHaveSubdirs\n MakeSubdirs($(SUBDIRS))\n #endif\n \n \n all::\n \t@echo \" building xv ...\"\n \t@echo \"\"\n \n***************\n*** 259,267 ****\n \n \n SRCS = $(SRCS1) $(SRCS2) $(SRCS3) $(SRCS4)\n- DependTarget()\n \n AllTarget($(PROGRAMS))\n \n NormalProgramTarget(xv,$(OBJS1),$(DEPLIBS),$(LOCAL_LIBRARIES),)\n NormalProgramTarget(bggen,$(OBJS2),$(DEPLIBS),$(LOCAL_LIBRARIES),)\n--- 257,269 ----\n \n \n SRCS = $(SRCS1) $(SRCS2) $(SRCS3) $(SRCS4)\n \n+ \n AllTarget($(PROGRAMS))\n+ DependTarget()\n+ #ifdef IHaveSubdirs\n+ DependSubdirs($(SUBDIRS))\n+ #endif\n \n NormalProgramTarget(xv,$(OBJS1),$(DEPLIBS),$(LOCAL_LIBRARIES),)\n NormalProgramTarget(bggen,$(OBJS2),$(DEPLIBS),$(LOCAL_LIBRARIES),)\n*** 1.1\t1993/04/28 08:33:13\n--- xv.h\t1993/04/28 08:19:31\n***************\n*** 284,292 ****\n--- 284,298 ----\n \n \n /* signal macros */\n+ #if defined(sun) && defined(SYSV)\n+ #define HOLD_SIG sighold(SIGALRM)\n+ #define RELEASE_SIG sigrelse(0)\n+ #define PAUSE_SIG sigpause(0)\n+ #else\n #define HOLD_SIG sigblock(sigmask(SIGALRM))\n #define RELEASE_SIG sigblock(0)\n #define PAUSE_SIG sigpause(0)\n+ #endif\n \n \n /* default for most folks */\n***************\n*** 318,323 ****\n--- 324,333 ----\n #define random rand\n #define srandom srand\n #endif\n+ #if defined(sun) && defined(SYSV)\n+ #define random() rand()\n+ #define srandom(x) srand(x)\n+ #endif\n \n \n \n*** 1.1\t1993/04/28 06:09:50\n--- xcmap.c\t1993/04/28 07:09:03\n***************\n*** 9,15 ****\n--- 9,19 ----\n \n /* include files */\n #include \n+ #if defined(sun) && defined(SYSV)\n+ #include \n+ #else\n #include \n+ #endif\n #include \n \n #include \n*** 1.1\t1993/04/28 06:17:41\n--- tiff/Imakefile\t1993/04/28 08:53:34\n***************\n*** 49,59 ****\n--- 49,69 ----\n \n tif_compress.o: Imakefile\n \n+ #if HasGcc\n g3states.h: mkg3states.c t4.h\n -${RM} g3states.h\n+ \t${CC} -traditional -o mkg3states ${CFLAGS} mkg3states.c\n+ ./mkg3states > g3states.h || rm g3states.h\n+ #else\n+ g3states.h: mkg3states.c t4.h\n+ -${RM} g3states.h\n ${CC} -o mkg3states ${CFLAGS} mkg3states.c\n ./mkg3states > g3states.h || rm g3states.h\n+ #endif\n \n depend:: g3states.h\n \n+ clean::\n+ \t-${RM} mkg3states g3states.h\n+ \n DependTarget()", "\n\n You must not have tried very hard. I just opend mine in about 2\nseconds. Take a look on the bottom, it has a dial that turns to open\nmuch like the older ADB mouses used to have. It's a bit harder to turn\nat first but it is quite simple to open.\n\n\n Well, if you don't match up the pins correctly you will have some\nproblems. A close look at the socket should give you an idea of the\nproper orientation of the chip.", "I want to achieve an overall throughput rate of around 5 megabytes / sec\nfor very large data transfers. (Around 5 MB.)\n\nI have a Quadra 950. \nI have a NuBus network card that can pump data in to mac memory at 8.5 MB/s.\n (using block-mode transfers)\nI have a high-speed disk array (no asynchronous PB calls) that can\n achieve 6.8 MB/s.\n\nLet's say all transfers go from disk to buffer to network card.\n\nIt is not enough to first transfer all the data from the disk to buffer,\nthen transfer all the data from the buffer to card. (6.8 MB/s then 8.5 MB/s\nresult in an overall 3.8 MB/s. Too slow!)\n\nSo I tried the following scheme: For an n-megabyte transfer, \n\nStep 1: Load the 1st MB from disk to buffer.\nStep 2: Asynch send 1st MB out card, Load the 2nd MB from disk to buffer.\nStep 3: Asynch send 2nd MB out card, Load the 3rd MB from disk to buffer.\n ...\nStep n: Asynch send the n-1 MB out card, Load the nth MB from disk to buffer.\nStep n+1: Send the nth MB out card.\n\nEven though the code apparently does execute the card transfer asynchronously,\nand the card does not use the Mac cpu at all, (It is using the buffer, tho')\neach of the steps 2 through n take as long as if the two transfers were\nexecuted one after another. So there is no improvement in the rate.\n\nWhy?\n\nIs the mac RAM dual-port? (So the NuBus card and the disk driver can both\naccess data at the same time.)\nIs the problem that the two devices, card and disk driver, both have to use\nthe same bus to mac RAM?\n\nIs there anything I can do?", "\nYou need to add two 256K VRAM SIMMs; 512K VRAM SIMMs will not work in any \nof the Quadra or Centris machines. There is already 512K of VRAM soldered \nto the logic board. You add the two 256K SIMMs to this to give you a \ntotal of 1 MB.", "I am trying to get my system to work with a Tandberg 3600 + Future\nDomain TMC-1660 + Seagate ST-21M MFM controller. \n\nThe system boots up if the Tandberg is disconnected from the system,\nand of course no SCSI devices found (I have no other SCSI devices).\n\nThe system boots up if the Seagate MFM controller is removed from the\nsystem. The Future Domain card reports finding the Tandberg 3660 on\nthe SCSI bus. The system then of course stops booting because my MFM\nhard disks can't be found.\n\nThe system hangs if all three (Tandberg, Future Domain TMC-1660 &\nSeagate MFM controller) are in the system. \n\nLooks like there is some conflict between the Seagate and Future\nDomain card. But the funny thing is that it only hangs if the Tandberg\nis connected.\n\nI have checked that there are no conflict in BIOS addresses, IRQ & I/O\nport. Have I missed anything?\n\nI am lost here. Any suggestions are most welcomed. Thanks in advance.\n\nDelman.\n\n\n\n--\n______________________________________________________________________", "The general consensus seems to be that an extended keyboard (or the new\nergonomic keyboard) with mouse is ok. The PB160 is rated for 200mA which is\napparently identical to the LC and the LC works fine with said attachments.\n\nThanks very much to those who replied...I am now on my way to order a Battleship\nand a mouse.... :)", "I need some help. We are upgrading our animation/video editing stand. We\nare looking into the different type of setups for A/B roll and a cuts only\nstation. We would like this to be controlled by a computer ( brand doesnt matter but maybe MAC, or AMIGA). Low end to high end system setups would be very\nhelpful. If you have a system or use a system that might be of use, could you\nmail me your system requirements, what it is used for, and all the hardware and\nsoftware that will be necessary to set the system up. If you need more \ninfo, you can mail me at eylerken@u.washington.edu\n\nthanks in advance.", "\n\nAll you have to do is buy a MacroMedia MacRecorder. This plugs into your\nseril port and acts as a microphone. North Star computers should be able\nto order you one.\n-- \n---------------------------------------\nLiam Morland ad358@freenet.carleton.ca", "Has someone scanned in an artist's rendering of Aurora? If so, is the GIF\navailable somewhere?\n\nPlease reply via email.\n\nThanks,\n\n\nCraig", "\n\n\n I believe so, since the Buslogic cards have proven to be very \nreliable in OS/2 2.0....\n\n\n Endusers (not OEM manufactures) will get all the software package with the\ncard which includes drivers for Novell, OS/2, Unix & Xenix and so forth.\n\n\n Definitely.\n\n", "The JP5 on the Speedstar 24x is for those systems with boot-up problems.\nIf your system fails to boot-up proprtly, please pull off the jumper\nblock from jp5. This will not affect the proformance of the SpeedStar 24x.\n \nThis is what my manual says about jp5. I never knew that it was there\nbut the card is a real ask kicker in my book. It beats the hell out\nof my junk Sony 1604s to the point that I can't even use above 648x480\nmode much...Sam\nSome times an upgrage turns out to be a big overkill, like driving a Sony\nwith a 24x that the monitor can't handle. Or installing 60ns simms and\nthen finding out that your mother board doesn't have a cmos wait state\nadjustment to take advantage of the new 60ns simms that you just bought!", "Hi,\n\nI use a PC with a screen access program (IBM Screen Reader) and a\nspeech synthesizer. (Accent SA).\n\nI would like to find out about screen access programs for the windows\nplatform. I heard that were a couple of them out now under beta\ntesting, I would like to find out addresses/prices etc.\n\nThanks,\n\n--Raman ", "What hardware do plan to run on? Workstation or PC? Cost level?\nRun-time licensing needs?\n\nBob", "Hello,\n\n I am searching for rendering software which has been developed\nto specifically take advantage of multi-processor computer systems.\nAny pointers to such software would be greatly appreciated.\n \nThanks.\n", "\n[Note: I just tried to figure this stuff out about a month ago myself, from\nvarious people on the net, so I could be wrong.]\n\nThe data is only ever read once (barring mistracks and such, of course),\nand eventually gets turned into 44.1 KHz, 16 bit, two channel data.\nOversampling takes two discrete data points, and interpolates n-1 points\nbetween them for n times oversampling. When I asked, people said that the\ninterpolation was not simply linear interpolation, but significantly more\ncomplicated.\n\nAnyway, then, the purpose of oversampling is to move the \"effective\"\nsampling rate up to n times 44.1 KHz, in order to use higher frequency\nantialiasing filters. For the same quality filter, higher oversampling\nlets you build cheaper filters, whereas for the same price filter, higher\noversamplings lets you build better filters. So, assuming the quality of\nall other components in a CD player remained the same, oversampling should\nallow a manufacturer to produce _slightly_ better sound due to anti-alias\nfiltering.", "Hi Netters,\n\tHaving inherited a Solbourne (S-4000 : Sun 4 Compatible), I was wondering\nif somebody has ported X11R5 to this beast. Since Solbournce Computer Inc. folded\nup I don't know where I can get the kernel to move from R4. Since they never\njoined the MIT Consortium, the regular distribution doesn't work. Any pointers\nwill be highly appreciated.\n\nJulian", "\n\nYou are correct! The motherboard manufacturer where I usually buy boards says\nthat they will have this problem fixed in about two weeks...", "Does anyone know of any c or c++ libraries for preparing\nand displaying quickly pages of mixed text, mathematical equations,\nand graphics (circles,ellipses,etc) on the vdu? The maths wouldnt\nneed to be up to TeX quality, but it would be useful to be scaleable.\nThe main thing would be to be able to generate the display quickly\nfrom a minimum set of formatting code.\nThanks,\nEd Campbell\n", "For Sale: 386SX-16Mz, 8 meg RAM!, 120 meg Maxtor IDE hard disk, AMI BIOS\n STB PowerGraph SVGA, 1MB (up to 1024x768x256)\n LOOP 14\" color SVGA monitor (.28 dot pitch)\n 1.2 & 1.44 diskette drives\n Desktop case, turbo & reset switches, Hard Drive LED \n 101 keyboard, 2 Serial/1 Parallel/ 1 Game Port\n Serial, 2-button, fully MS-compatible mouse.\n Everex 2400 bps External modem with MNP5\n DOS 5.0, Windows 3.1\n Logitech ScanMan 32 HandScanner with all software,docs,box.\n", "The file and contents listings for:\n\nKnowledge Media Resource Library: Graphics 1\nKnowledge Media Resource Library: Audio 1", "I have a video board for sale for Macintosh NU-Bus machines. My other deal fell through. I am asking $200.\nRasterOps 8XL\n\n640x480\n800x600 <--- This was incorrectly posted as 832x624 before.\n640x870\n1024x768 (60hz & 75 hz)\n1152x870\n\nMake offers by mail.\n", "Posting for a friend.\nContact directly or leave e-mail and I can forward.\n\nBrand spanking new.\nStill in original package.\nNever opened.\n\nDayna EtherPrint-T.\nRJ-45 connector to support 10BASE-T-compliant networks.\nConnect LocalTalk-compatible printers directly to Ethernet networks.\nWill work with _ANY_ LocalTalk-compatible network printer, such as\n LaserWriter\n ImageWriter\n IBM 4216 Personal Page Printer II\n Hewlett-Packard DeskWriter\n Hewlett-Packard LaserJet printer family\n QUME printers\nCan daisy-chain a maximum of 4 LocalTalk devices, such as\n workstations\n modems\n printers\nto a single EtherPrint device.\nSupport AppleTalk Phase 1 and Phase 2 protocols.\n\n$300 + shipping.\nCheap ... $329 new without 10BASE-T in MAC World.", "I posted on here about a problem with a Datadesk 101e keyboard that\nfailed to rebuild the desktop with the command-option keys pressed\nor to shut off inits when pressing the shift key. After absolutely\nno help from Datadesk I called MacConnection tech support. They tried it out\non their Centris 610 and had the same problem. They immediately offered\nto get a new keyboard, try it on their Centris and ship it to me\novernight if it worked. I could send them my keyboard back after I\ngot the one that worked. This is from a guy in Tech support named Dave.\nIt turns out that the keyboard will wrok if you wait for the smiley face\nbefore pressing the shift key to disable inits and wait for the inits to start appearing to rebuild the desktop by pressing command-option. I really like\nthis keyboard so I was glad to be able to keep it. On the other hand,\nDatadesks tech support sucks while MacConnection's is great!\n-Terry\n", "\n\nI've had the same problem with a Maxtor 7213A. Turned off\nsmartdrive, 32 bit disk access, etc. This same disk aborts\nNorton Speed Disk (NU 4.5), up to 8 times, requesting NDD to be\nrun when attempting to defrag drive. At Some peoples' suggestion\nI reformatted my drive and reloaded DOS 5.0, Win 3.1 from\nscratch. A few people found that installing 3.1 on top of 3.1\nbeta on top of 3.0 caused a similar problem, So I tried this\ndrastic solution. When the problem reoccurred, I didn't have the\nbrains not to load 6.0 and dblespaced the drive.\n\nI get arround the annoyance by copying my *.grp files to *.gro.\nwhen I get the message, I run file manager and copy the\noffeniding group files from *.gro ove rthe *.grp. Then I quit\nand restart windows(If the group is an often used important one.)\n\nThis really sucks. But I'm pretty sure that the problem is the\ndrive (especially with the NSD problem). I will be going with\nout over 66% of my memory after finals for 2 to 4 weeks, while\nthe guy I bought the disk and system from, goes over it and\neither fixes it or replaces the drive. I can't wait to have a\nsystem that will run consistently with all hte goodies!\n", "More people have been asking for information on the Kubota graphics\nworkstations, so here is some more info on the Kenai/Denali vs. the\nE&S Freedom.\n\n\nHere is the text of a Denali vs. E&S Freedom done by D.H. Brown Associates.\n\n------\n\nDenali bears a strong resemblance to Evans and Sutherlands Freedom graphics\nsubsystem in several aspects of its high-level design. Both products use\na parallel array of 29050 processors for geometric computations. Both\nhave a pixel router to connect this front end to a second array of\npixel processors. As a result, Denali and Freedome overlap significantly\nin performance and functionality. Both design teams also appear to have \nsimilar philosophies with respect to modularity, scalability, and market\npenetration.\n\nThere remain, however, several important differences between the KPC and\nE&S products. Evans and Sutherland designed Freedom as a high-end\ndeveloper's dream system with plenty of performance potential and\nflexibility. In its favor, Freedom has configurations from two to\nsixteen floating point units, a border range that starts and ends at\na higher price and performance levels than Denali. All Freedom\nsystems include a large, fixed number of pixel processors that\nsupport a broader variety of color blending functions. The Freedom\ndesign treats its entire image memory as general-purpose memory, allowing\ndevelopers to allocate it on a flexible basis to a number of special-purpose\napplications. Finally, E&S provided Freedom with very flexible otput and\nvideo integration features for multimedia and simulation applications. Note\nthat KPC is working an auxiliary board for NTSC and PAL output that will not\nrequire an external video encoder. E&S programmable output features,\nhowever, will remain much more flexible.\n\nThe KPC design team, in contrast, made Denali more of an end-user's system.\nEntry version have better performance range and flexibility than low-end\nFreedom configurations, and come in at more realistic mainstream price\npoints. Denali does not need as many 29050 modules as Freedome because\nit uses a deeper scan-conversion pipeline to support each one, resulting\nin better cost/performance characteristics. Although both products provide\nstrong support for 3D, imaging, and volume rendering, KPC recognized that\nnot all users will want an even mix of these capabilities. Denali's\nconfiguration flexibility allows customers in effect to purchase\ngeometric and pixel processing capabilities separately, and to upgrade\nthem separately as needed.\n\nBoth companies have implemented hardware texture mapping at\nworkstation price levels as a way to attack SGI's more expensive\nVGXT and RealityEngine systems -- the only other products to provide\nthis capability. KPC supports point sampling and bilinear interpolation\nof textures in hardware, but provides only software support for the higher\nqualtiy tri-linear interpolated mipmapping method. On balance, however, Denali\nprovideds bettern overall texturing capabilities than E&S for most applications.\nAside from being much more affordable, KPC solutions deliver more parallelism\nfor texture processing and more off-screen memory for general graphics\ndata storage. By implementing texture mapping on its transformation\nmodules, E&S foces customers to move very quickly to higher price levels\nto obtain better texturing performance. Kubota avoids this problem by linking\ntexturing to its Frame Buffer Modules, providing a lower-cost, more scalable\nsolution.\n\nHope this helps,\n\nBrian", "\nI would doubt that you would be able to use the hard drive. XT drives\nusually came in MFM or RLL flavors. I bet your 386SX has IDE drives. The\ntwo are not compatible on the same controller. However, you might be\nable to use the drive *with its controller* in your 386SX. You should be\nable to plug your 360K drive into your existing 386SX controller (I\nthink). You might have to use the floppy controller that was used in the\nXT.", "\nI've done some ASIC and digital design, but not any CPU design.\nIt would seem to me that on a 486, the FPU is not being used, most of\nthe cache is not being accessed, the off chip buffers/drivers are idle,\nthe multiplier isn't multiplying, the barrel shifters aren't shifting,\nmicrocode isn't microcoding, etc. This means transistors aren't\nswitching which means less power dissipated (in CMOS), which means\nless heat.\\\n\nFrom what I understand, the Pentium shuts down those sections of the\nCPU which aren't being used in order to cut down on heat/power.\n\n", "I have a Diamond Speedstar 24X board that I want to program\nfor 24 bit 640x480 graphics, or possibly 800x600 16 bit color.\nDoes anybody have any libraries supporting these modes on this\nboard? Even somes simple routines to set the graphics mode and\nplot individual pixels would be a great help. I plan to use the\nroutines with djgp.\n\n Thanks in advance. Please respond also via e-mail.", "\n\nYou may have to define your serial ports under windows (I think it's the \nControl Panel, PORTS options..)\n\n\nMattias", "Emu Emax II Rackmount Sampler w/ 16 Bit Stereo Sampling\n3 stereo inputs, 6 outs. \nInternal Sequencer\n32 voice polyphony\n170 meg internal HD\nStock ram (2 meg I think)\nPerfect Condition\n5 months old", "om>\n\n\nCliff, do you know the difference between \"Windows\" and \"Win-OS/2\"? Here's\na helpful hint:\n\nRunning \"Windows\" under OS/2 2.0 is only possible in real mode, in a DOS\nbox. Of course, this is only possible with Windows 3.0, since Windows 3.1\nno longer has a \"real mode\".\n\nThe ability to run standard mode, the ability to have an OS/2 <-> Windows\nclipboard, the ability to run seamless, and a few other things were all added\nby IBM to \"Win-OS/2\".\n\nNow, everybody who is running \"Windows\" in real-mode in a DOS box under OS/2\n2.x raise your hand. Finally, everybody who is running \"Win-OS/2\" under OS/2,\nraise YOUR hand.\n\nGet the picture, Cliff?\n", "I am in charge of purchasing some computer software for a small office and I\nhave a few question about Microsoft's Office Pack. \n\n1) I was wondering, are the programs that are packaged with the Office\nPack--WinWord, Power Point, Excel, and ccMail--complete and the latest\naddition?\n\n2) Are the programs \"hobbled\" in any way? \n\n3) Can we update single programs at a latter date ( i.e. from Excel 4.0 to\nExcel 5) ?\n\n4) Do you receive all of the necessary disks and documentation?\n\n5) Is there anything that I should be aware of that makes the Office Package\nless of deal that it seems?\n\nSorry if I seem skeptical put the price for the Office Package--$439.39 on the\nstreet--sounds like a great deal for the office that is purchasing its first\ncomputer and software. But all four complete programs for less than $450\nmakes me just a little suspicious. Maybe its just me. \n\nThanks for your help in advance\n\nKirt Wilson\nNorthwestern University\n\n-------------------------------", "1. IBM PS/2 286; 30 meg hd; 1.44 disk drive 3.5\"; extended keyboard; mouse,\n mouse-pad; DOS, DOSSHELL, EXCEL, WINDO S, WORD, AMIPRO, GRE StudyWare.\n $500 / b.o.\n\n2. Zenith Date Systems supersport laptop computer\n w/ 120V AC recharger; model 150-308 60 hz.\n DOS 4.0\n 2 disc drives for 3.5\" floppy\n carrying case, manuals.\n $350 / b.o.\n\n3. 2 leather desk chairs (1) black $200. (2) brown $150. or both for\n$300.\n\n4. Olivetti manual typewriter, Tropical model.\n Incl. characters for typing in Italian language.\n $100.\n\nPlease reply via email or call me at my home number: (617) 277-9234.\n\nThanks,\nJason", "\n\nIt certainly is multi-user. What I have seen from the March Beta is\nthat it doesn't yet come with the stuff which exploits multi-user\nfeatures. I remember somebody from MS stating that it doesn't allow\ntwo users share one GUI. My interpretation of this was that one user\nper console but all the networking and RPC based stuff you want. \n\nI believe ftp and rlogin deamons for NT systems will come from third\nparty. Somebody already has a Beta version of an unsecure ftpd on the\nnet. There is no reason why one cannot write a posix based shell like\ncsh on Unix for remote logins. \n\nIn general I liked NT when I checked it out. It slow compared to\nWin3.1 (just like any other real OS). The beta version, although being\nslow, botts up much faster than my SUN workstation. Windows subsystems\nalso start up a lot faster than X windows. I believe Bill Gates was\nright when he stated that NT was not for everybody. After playing\naround with it for a while I was convinced. If I owned a busines using\na \"business computer\" from IBM or some other established vendor, I\nwould consider moving to NT platform because it would provide a much\ncheaper solution (If you are running SQL servers etc.). It provides\nthe robustness such an application requires. \n\nOn the other hand if you like your DOS games, more or less forget\nabout NT. You can always boot to DOS but in general that defeats\nthe purpose of using NT. Most of NT's features are visible in a\nnetworked environment and in such an environment you can't reboot your\nmachine at will. For personal use, I would rather wait for the Win32\nbased Windows release (whatever you name it) than jump to NT bandwagon.\nI expect most applications will keep on using Win16 until Win32\nbecomes widely available. \n", "Are there any X window servers that can run under MS-Windows?? I only know of\nDeskview but have not seen it in action. Are there any others??\n\nThanks in advance.", "I'm looking for any and all information regarding packet radio\nimplementation on the PC. Software, hardware, whatever.\n\nPlease e-mail any info to koberg@spot.colorado.edu.", "I'm selling an Adaptec 1640 SCSI controller card. I works with Microchannel\nmachines only. The data transfer rate is very fast (I get about 3meg/sec with\nmy SCSI hard drive), and that's with relatively slow 100ns RAM on a card. It's\na SCSI-2 true bus mastering/DMA device, and goes for around $329 bought new. \nI'm including the new EZ-SCSI software for speedy Win 3.1 performance and easy\nconfiguration.\nI'm selling it for $225, and I'll pay the COD shipping.", "\nBUT... If you are in the habit of trying to repair old and obsolete\nmachines, the old data books are a goldmine of information you can\nnot get anywhere else. If you are trying to find a modern replacement\nfor an obsolete part, the original specs really come in handy. Design\nout of the new books but save the old ones (or donate them to a ham).\n\nIf anybody in Phoenix disagrees, I'll drive over and help them 'get rid'\nof all their old data books.", "I would like to modulate a 40KHz squarewave over rf. This is for a rf\nremote control project. The squarewave has a high of 5 v and low of 0v.\n\nthanks.\n\ntron", "Hello netters:) Does anyone out there know any FTP sites for projects,\nplans, etc of an electrical nature? \n\n-Jason", "Are there significant differences between V2.01 and V2.00 ?\nThank you for helping\n\nMarc.", "Actually, you might be surprised to find that not everyone who develops\nmainstream DOS and Windows apps develops them under DOS or Windows. PC\nWeek recently printed a rumor that Microsoft's Excel development group\ndoes its development under OS/2. Another trade rag did an article\nrecently about a group doing Windows development on Sun SPARCstations\nwith SoftPC to test out their work. SCO Unix is and has been a\nreasonably popular development platform for DOS, Windows, and even OS/2\napps. DOS and Windows are simply not robust or stable enough for\ndevelopment work, IMHO, and apparently others agree.\n", "As it says in the subject, I am looking for a decent EGA or VGA monitor/card\ncombo that is in working condition.\nThe only thing is that it must be an 8-bit card.\n\nE-Mail all offers to:\nIO10702@MAINE.MAINE.EDU", "\n: Men Without Hats - \"Folk of the 80's (Part III)\" - vinyl\n\nAnyone out there who is willing to part with their copy of\n\nMen without Hats, \"Pop goes the world!\" album on vinyl...or perhaps CD...\n\nplease contact me, we wish to purchase it!\n", "The short answer seems to be: \"I don't\".\nThe particular package (wscrawl) seems to reset *all* its defaults\nif *any* of them are missing from the .Xdefaults file. Once I added\nthe missing ones to the .Xdefaults file, the problem goes away.\n\n-Kevin", "I am trying to define my own class derived from the Object class so\nthat I may insert them into a HashTable (a class provided by the\nContainer class library).\n\nI have defined all of the pure virtual functions of Object, but I\nstill get an error when I attempt to allocate a HashEntry object:\n\n Cannot create instance of abstract class HashEntry\n\nHas anyone derived from class Object before? What have I left out?\nHere are the virtual functions that I defined from Object:\n\nvirtual classType isA() const { return hashEntryClass; }\nvirtual Pchar nameOf()const { return \"HashEntry\"; }\n\nvirtual hashValueType hashValue() const { return hashValue(hWindow); }\n// Note: hWindow is defined in HashEntry\n\nvirtual int isEqual (const Object _FAR &obj) const\n{ return this == &(HashEntry&) obj; }\n\nvirtual void printOn( Rostream os) const\n{\n os << \"[ HWindow is \" << (void _FAR *) hWindow << \" ]\\n\"; \n}\n--", "\n Just because the 68070 can run upto 15Mhz doesn't mean the CD-I\nis running at that speed. I said -> I understand it is a 68070 running\nat something like 7Mhz. I am not sure, but I think I read this a long\ntime ago.\n\n Anyway, still with 15Mhz, you need sprites for a lot of tricks for\nmaking cool awesome games (read psygnosis).\n", "\n\nLucky dog... :-)\n\n\n\n\nIt applies with equal force to earlier versions. Presumably only\nrecently did the author(s) decide it was important enough to mention.\nThe necessity it refers to has always been there, but it's been\nimplicit in the way CreateWindow requests default some attributes of\nthe new window.\n\n\n[...]\n\nThis is because the warning you read is incomplete. You have to\nprovide not only a colormap but also a border. The default border is\nCopyFromParent, which is not valid when the window's depth doesn't\nmatch its parent's. Specify a border-pixmap of the correct depth, or a\nborder-pixel, and the problem should go away.\n\nThere is another problem: I can't find anything to indicate that\nCopyFromParent makes any sense as the border_width parameter to\nXCreateWindow. Your Xlib implementation probably defines\nCopyFromParent as zero, to simplify the conversion to wire format, so\nyou are unwittingly asking for a border width of zero, due to the Xlib\nimplementation not providing stricter type-checking. (To be fair, I'm\nnot entirely certain it's possible for Xlib to catch this.)\n\n\t\t\t\t\tder Mouse", "\nThat's not all it says. The coverage of modifiers is in Chapter 8\nof Volume Four (or chap 7 in older Athena editions), where there is about \n10 pages on how to specify translations to capture\nvarious combinations of keys or buttons.\n\nThe Xlib route uses XLookupString and there is a lot of coverage\nof how that works in Volume One, chapter 9. You should read this\nto understand how all the mappings work before trying to do anything\ncomplicated.", "Does anyone know where I could get some source code for a GIF viewer on a PC.\nIt doesn't have to be fancy, it would be best if it were written in C to \ndisplay gif pictures on a VGA screen. I was hoping to get it for free\nfrom an FTP site, but I haven't been able to find it yet.\n\n\n", "I bought the diamond stealth 24 a few months ago. it seems to be a\ngreat card especially with my multimedia presentations. It runs graphics\nand animation as well as some near full motion video very well. The only\nthing I can tell that it lacks is speed above 256 colors. Its qualit in\nbetween 256 and 16.7 million collors un unreal but you definitly\ncompromise speed. It seems to be a great card for graphics and it comes\nwith some great software, but Im not so sure about the excelerator\npart. I used to own a paridise and it doesnt seem to be much faster\nthan that. One thing I do like is that it loads its own vesa driver\nfrom ROM at startup, (I think) because I have never had to load it for\nlinks386 or any other programs that require special VESA drivers at\nstartup. \n\n\n\ngromi a16pd\n\n\n HINTMATT@BA.BA.ISU.EDU\n\n\n", "\nNo. No. NOOO!!!\n\nThe ground (green) wire is for safety. No current is supposed to flow in it\nunder normal conditions. This means that there's normally no voltage drop in\nit either. It is supposed to be safe to touch the ground wire... even if\nyou're grounded in some other way at the same time. \n\nThe neutral (white) wire is, as Dave Vanderbyl correctly said, the return for\nthe hot wire. Since current flows in it, there's a voltage drop. If you\nplug a heavy load into a properly-wired grounded outlet, you can commonly \nmeasure a volt or so of difference between neutral and ground. \n\nThey are supposed to be connected together at the breaker panel... but nowhere,\nrepeat NOwhere, else. (Well, almost. There are strange exceptions for things\nlike sub-panels.)\n\nWhat you CAN do if you want three-prong outlets without additional wiring is \nto use a GFCI outlet (or breaker, but the outlet will be cheaper). In fact,\ndepending on where you are putting your new outlet(s), a GFCI may be *required*.\n\nThere is a FAQ on electrical wiring, posted regularly to rec.woodworking and\nnews.answers. It goes into great detail on these issues (including GFCIs) and\nyou should probably read it before asking any more questions. I'll mail a copy\nto you, append a copy here, and will ask the writers to cross-post it here in\nthe future. ", "About a year ago I started work on a problem that appeared to\nbe very simple and turned out to be quite difficult. I am wondering if\nanyone on the net has seen this problem and (hopefully) some published \nsolutions to it.\n\n\tThe problem is to draw an outline of a surface defined by two\nroughly parallel cubic splines. For inputs the problem essentially\nstarts with two sets of points where each set of points is on the \nedge of an object which we treat as two dimensional, i.e. only extant\nbetween the edges, but which exists in three dimensional space. To draw \nthe object we \n\n1) fit a cubic spline through the points. Each spline is effectively\n\tcomputed as a sequence of line segments approximating the\n curve. Each spline has an equal number of segments. We assume\n\tthat the nth segment along each spline is roughly, but not\n\texactly, the same distance along each spline by any reasonable\n\tmeasure.\n2) Take each segment (n) along each spline and match it to the nth segment\n\tof the opposing spline. Use the pair of segments to form two\n\ttriangles which will be filled in to color the surface.\n3) Depth sort the triangles\n4) Take each triangle in sorted order, project onto a 2D pixmap, draw\n\tand color the triangle. Take the edge of the triangle that is\n\talong the edge of the surface and draw a line along that edge\n\tcolored with a special \"edge color\"\n\n\tIt is the edge coloring in step 4 that is at the heart of the\nproblem. The idea is to effectively outline the edge of the surface.\nThe net result however generally has lots of breaks and gaps in\nthe edge of the surface. The reasons for this are fairly complicated.\nThey involve both rasterization problems and problems resulting\nfrom the projecting the splines. If anything about this problem\nsounds familiar we would appreciate knowing about other work in this\narea.", "\nThat's fine, but would you name the \"industy experts\" so I can try to track\nthis down?\n\n\nYup. That's why I'm kinda curious... most SCSI problems I've encountered\nare due to cabling.\n\nnoah", "\nAnd at least 500% more user unfriendly as well!\n", "Has someone a list of CD-ROM's with no SCSI-Interface and if known\nhow much they are present in the market.\n\nPlease mail direcktly as I am not reguarly reading the group.\n\nI'll post a summary if wanted.\n\n\nThanks\n\nIhno\n\n==============================================================================\nIhno Krumreich | Phone (49) 721 955 253 0 U U N N III X X\nSynerix Gmbh | email: ihno@generics.ka.sub.org U U NN N I X X\nBach Strasse 24 | FAX (49) 721 59 02 11 U U N N N I X\nD-W7500 Karlsruhe 21 | U U N NN I X X\n UUU N N III X X\n-- ", "Unless otherwise noted, I am mainly interested in USED items.\nIf you have (any of) the following for sale, please contact me:\n EMail mbeck@vtssi.vt.edu\n Phone (703)552-4381\n USMail Michael Beck\n 1200 Progress Street #5500E\n Blacksburg, Virginia 24060\n \nPlease give as much info as possible (brand, age, condition, etc)\n~~~~~~~~~~WANTED as of 10AM, 4/27/93~~~~~~~~~~\n \nCOMPUTER EQUIP:\n \n1 CHEAP (<$100) tape drive - pretty much any kind for IBM (Used)\n \n1 Memory expansion card for PS/2 Model 50Z\n \n1 Memory for PS/2 Model 50Z (New or Used)\n \n1 High Density (1.2 mb) 5 1/4 disk drive EXTERNAL\n \nNON-COMPUTER EQUIP:\n \n1 TV - 27\" or bigger, stereo\n \n1 VCR - 4 Heads, stereo\n \n1 Receiver - 100 Watts or more w/ Dolby Prologic Surround Sound\n capability\n \n1 Bed - Full or Queen sized - LOCAL OFFERS only, please", "try this after XCreateWindow:\n-----------------------------\n\n#include \n\nDisplay display;\nWindow window;\n\n{\n XSizeHints *xsizehints = XAllocSizeHints ();\n xsizehints->flags = USPosition | USSize;\t/* or = PPosition | PSize */\n xsizehints->x = 42;\n xsizehints->y = 42;\n xsizehints->width = 100;\n xsizehints->height = 100;\n XSetWMNormalHints (display, window, xsizehints);\n XFree (xsizehints);\n}\n\nThese hints tell the window manager that the position and size of the window\nare specified by the users and that the window manager should accept these\nvalues. If you use xsizehints->flags = PPosition | PSize, this tells the window\nmanager that the values are prefered values of the program, not the user.\nI don't know a window manager that doesn't place the window like you prefer if\nyou specify the position and size like above.\n\nGreetings from Berlin,", "\nI specifically made the above comment assuming that perhaps the code fragment\ncame from a simple \"open-draw-quit\" client. \n\nAs per your question: why not have the button handler add the object, and\nthen call the \"window_redraw()\" (or whatever) directly? Although, depending\non how the overall application is structured, there may be no problem with\nrendering the object directly in response to the button press.\n\n\tKen\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nAs to how many clients may be display on a server, I believe the limit\nwould be how much memory is available to your server or allocated by the\nserver.\n\n", "I'm looking for some specs for a Toshiba TA6267-BP. It appears\nto be a power amp housed in a 7-pin inline package and is used\nin my Mitsubishi VCR, circa 1985, as a DC motor controller for\nthe tape drive.\n\nChecking in the oldest IC Master I have (1990), I don't see it\nlisted, and it appears to have been discontinued. If anyone\nhas anything on this part, I'd be *greatly* indebted!\n\nthanks in advance,", "I'd appreciate it greatly if someone could E-mail me the following:\n(if you only know one, that's fine)\n1) Specs for the 68040 (esp. how it compares to the Pentium)\n2) Specs for the 68060 with estimated cost, release date, etc...\n\nI'm interested in speeds, systems it can run (Windows NT, RISC, or whatever),\ncosts, bus info, register info. All the technical info.\n\nI am hoping that the 68040 can win yet another battle against the intel people.\n \n:) Thanks for any info you can give.\n\nThanks.", "\tDoug> NNTP-Posting-Host: se05.wg2.waii.com\nI am having a big problem trying to build MIT X11R5 with xlc 1.2.1\n(the one bundled with AIX 3.2.3e). Its almost the linker is not\nworking properly with shared libraries.\n\nI've built X11R5 with no problem before .. but now its all headaches.\nFor example, the xset client complains that libXmu doesnt have a bunch\nof Xt routines and shr.o is missing (or something like that). The\nbuild of libXmu DOES link in libXt so I am really perplexed what is\ngoing on.\n\n\n....following up on this, the specific error I get is:\nCould not load program ./xset \nSymbol XtVaSetValues in ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.a is undefined\nSymbol XtName in ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.a is undefined\nSymbol XtWindowOfObject in ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.a is undefined\nSymbol XtGetConstraintResourceList in ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.a is undefined\nSymbol XtDisplayToApplicationContext in ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.a is undefined\nSymbol XtAppSetTypeConverter in ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.a is undefined\nSymbol XtScreenDatabase in ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.a is undefined\nSymbol XtResolvePathname in ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.a is undefined\nSymbol XtCvtStringToFont in ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.a is undefined\nSymbol XtCallConverter in ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.a is undefined\nSymbol XtDisplayStringConversionWarning in ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.a is undefined\nCould not load library libXmu.a[shr.o]\nError was: Exec format error\n", "The most likely explanation may have something to do with the fact that a\ngreater density of information exists on the larger capacity disk drive than\nthe smaller one. If your running the drive on a Mac I would recommend a\nshareware utility called Timedrive which tests seek, SCSI throughput and\nrotational speed. This utility should let you know what the differences are\nbetween the drives.\n***************************************************************************\n The views expressed in this posting those of the individual author only. \n[BBS Number:(613) 848-1346 MacContent is VictoriaÕs first Iconic BBS!]\n***************************************************************************\n\n", "Hi there\n\n(I posted this to comp.windows.x.intrinsics but got no response, so I'm posting\nhere.)\n\nI'm wanting to connect a digitiser made for PCs into my workstation (an HP 720).\nIt is my understanding the X windows can understand a variety of input devices\nincluding digitiser tablets. However, this digitiser makes use of the serial\nport, so there would seem to be a need to have a special device driver.\n\nThe HP manual pages say that the HP X server will accept X input from\ndevices listed in the /usr/lib/X11/X*devices file (* = display number).\nI shouldn't think I would be able to simply insert /dev/rs232c as an input\ndevice in this file and expect a digitiser to work. But maybe I'm wrong. Am I?\n\nWhat I would like to know is: does anybody out there have a digitiser connected\nto their workstation for use as a pointer for X (rather than just as input to a\nspecific X application)? If so, what were the steps required for installation?\nDid you need a special device driver? Did the manufacturer supply it? Are\nthere generic public domain device drivers around? (I understand that\ndigitisers generally use only a couple of standard formats.)\n\nAny help would be greatly appreciated.\n\nCheers\n- Vaughan\n", "I'm asking for help on a sticky problem involving unreasonably low\napparent precision in Z-buffering, that I've encountered in 2 different\nPEX implementations. I can't find any discussion of this problem in any\nresources I can lay hands on (e.g. the comp.windows.x.pex FAQ, Gaskins's\n_PEXlib_Programming_Manual_, vendors' documentation).\n\nI'm posting this article by itself on comp.graphics, and virtually the\nsame article with a test program demonstrating the problem on\ncomp.windows.x.pex. The problem is hard to describe without pictures,\nhence this article is longish. If you can run PEXlib 5.x programs and\nare interested, I encourage you to build and run the test program in\ncomp.windows.x.pex to see the effect yourself and play with my approach\nto dealing with it. (It depends on the utility code from the above\nGaskins book; instructions for fetching it via anonymous FTP are given.)\n\nThe problem to be solved is to eliminate or minimize \"stitching\"\nartifacts resulting from the use of Z-buffering with polylines that are\ncoplanar with filled areas. The interpolated Z values along a line will\ndiffer slightly, due to roundoff error, from the interpolated Z values\nacross an area, even when the endpoints of the line are coincident with\nvertices of the area. Because of this, it's a tossup whether the\nZ-buffer will allow the line pixels or the area pixels to be displayed.\nVisually, the result tends to be a dashed-line effect even though the\nline is supposed to be solid.\n\nUsing the PEXlib API, my approach to a solution is to use two slightly\ndifferent PEX view mapping transforms, in two view table entries, one\nfor the areas and one for the lines. The PEX structures or immediate-\nmode output must be organized so that one view table index is always in\neffect for areas, and the other is always in effect for lines. The\nresult is a slight shift in NPC Z coordinates for the lines, so as to\nattempt to bias the tossup situations in favor of the lines.\n\nThis shift is effected by moving the front and back clipping planes used\nin the PEXlib view table entry for lines just a hair \"backwards\" (i.e.\nsmaller VRC Z coordinates), compared to their positions in the view\ntable entry used for areas. This means that when a point is transformed\nto NPC, its Z value will be slightly bigger if it comes from a line than\nif it comes from an area, thus accomplishing the desired bias.\n\nI would expect the Z roundoff errors which cause the problem to amount\nto a few units at most, out of the entire dynamic range of the Z-buffer,\ntypically from 0 to 65535 if not 16777215 (i.e. 16 or 24 bit Z-buffers).\nTherefore, it seems that a tiny fraction of the range of Z in VRC\nbetween the front and back clip planes ought to suffice to reliably fix\nthe stitching.\n\nBut in fact, experience shows that the shift has to be as much as 0.003\nto 0.006 of the range. (Empirically, it's worst when the NPC Z\ncomponent of the slope of the surface is high, i.e. when it appears more\nor less edge-on to the viewer.) It's as if only 8 or 9 bits of the\nZ-buffer have any dependable meaning! This amount is so great that one\nproblem is replaced by another: sometimes the polylines \"show through\"\nareas which they are supposed to lie behind.\n\nI've observed the problem on both Hewlett-Packard and Digital\nworkstation PEX servers, to approximately the same degree. The test\nprogram demonstrates the problem on an MIT PEXlib 5.x implementation;\nthis version is known to compile and run on an HP-UX system with PEX\n5.1.\n\nOpen questions:\n (1) Why does this happen?\n -- Am I configuring the PEX view table wrongly?\n -- Is there a systematic difference in Z interpolation for lines\n as opposed to areas (e.g. pixel centers versus corners) which\n could be corrected for?\n -- Are PEX implementors wantonly discarding Z precision in their\n interpolators?\n -- Something else?\n (2) What to do about it?\n -- Can I fix my use of the view table to allow better precision\n in Z-buffered HLHSR?\n -- Is there another approach I can take to remove the stitching\n artifacts?\n -- Am I just out of luck?\n\nAny help would be immensely appreciated!\n", "I wonder if anyone can tell me whether or not I can create a bitmap\nof any size? I followed the bitmap creation example in SDK manual\nand specified a 24x24 bitmap (set the width/height to 24) and supplied\na byte string with 72 chars. But I just cannot get the right bitmap\nimage. I changed the width/height to 32x32 and used the same value\nstring (padded with zero byets to make up to the right size) and\ngot the image.\n\nThe example in the manual is 64x32 size, which are multiple of 2 bytes.\nCan you define a bitmap image of any size?\n\nThanks very much.\n\nG Chen chen@citr.uq.oz.au", "\nI think you must be talking about the Syquest 105 (code named Mesa I believe).\nIt is a 3.5\" Winchester technology drive pretty much like the other Syquest\ndrives in terms of how it works. According to the latest MacLeak, the \ndrive has a 14.5 ms access time, 1.9 MB/s sustained throughput (these figures\nare from memory so they could be slightly off, but they give you an idea of\nperformance nonetheless). The drive was originally released for the PC\nand just recently was released for the Mac world (don't ask me what the \ndifferences are) and through they are currently in limited supply, according\nto a Syquest rep. they are in the process of ramping up for mass production.\nI have already seen them advertised by a number of manufacturers in MacLeak\nincluding PLI, MassMicro, ClubMac, and MacWarehouse's PowerUser. The PLI\nand MassMicro units are priced at just around $1000; the lesser name brands\nare going for around $750 for an external drive. Cartridges which hold \n105 MB sell for about $80 each. At these prices, the drives and cartridges\nare cheaper and better performing than the 88MB drives.\nCost per megabyte compares favorably with other cartridge drives and Bernoulli\ndrives, but for large amounts of data optical is still cheaper, and more\nreliable. Personally, I'm excited by the new drive and look forward to \ngetting my hands on one.\n-Chris Wand\n\n-- ", "Anyone have any info. on the video/sound card from SIGMA designs.\nIt is called WIN STORM PC.\nThey also have another card called the legend 24lx\n\nany info would be appreciated, incuding performance, pricing and\navailability.\nthanks", "\n\nThere is a review of 3DO in the latest \"wired\" magazine. You may just want\nto take a trip to the local bookstore and check it out (there's some cool pics\ntoo).\n\n(I haven't read it yet, or I'd tell you more.. :-)", "At the moment, I am using a Sun 3/80 (cgfour/bwtwo) with SunOS 4.0.3\nand OpenWindows 2.0.\n\nThis configuration is slow and I can't run all the programs on OW2. For\nexample, when I start a mailtool from OW3 and display it on my OW2\ndisplay, I can't open the compose window.\n\nI want to install an X11R5 or X11R4 server on my Sun and use xdm (yes,\nwe have xdm already running for other X-Terminals) to log in and start\nthe X programs.\n\nIs there a \"ready to go\" binairy of the X11 server for my configuration\n(I have read something about Xsun), or must I compile the X11 stuff by\nmyself?\n\nAny help is welcome\n\n\tV. Smeets\n", "As it says, I'm interested in buying one of the little\nlabel-makers, and I can't afford a new one. Anybody\ntired of theirs?\n\nE-mail Maureen gt1706a@prism.gatech.edu\n\n", "\n\nThis happens intermittently to Macs in our department, ranging from IIsi's\nto a Quadra 950.\n\nI can end the slowdown immediately by unplugging the Ethernet cable from\nthe Mac. It seems that something on the network puts out these packet\nstorms every few days. These storms have the effect of making our Macs\nslow down to a crawl.\n\nDavid Gutierrez\ndrg@biomath.mda.uth.tmc.edu", "Well, if you have an IRWIN 250 MB, here is a great deal for you:\nGenuine IRWIN accuTRAK 120-250 tapes, $16/ea\n3M DC2120 tapes. $16/ea\n\nAll the avove tapes are new, never used, and factory preformatted.\nEmail if interested.\n\nFeng", "Well folks, after some thought the answer struck me flat in the face:\n\n\"Why would Apple release a Duo Dock with a processor of its own?\"\n\nHere's why- People have hounded Apple for a notebook with a 68040 processor\nin it. Apple can't deliver that right now because the 040 saps too much\npower, radiates far too much heat, and is too large for a notebook. How\ndoes one get around that without designing a new chipset? Use existing\nPowerBook technology to your best advantage. The Duo Dock gives Apple a\nunique ability to give users that 040 power in a \"Semi-Portable\" fashion.\nBy plunking the 040 into the Dock, you've got \"quadra\" power at your desk.\nOn the road, that 33mhz 68030 should be able to handle most of your needs.\nOkay, not the BEST solution, but its an answer to a no-win situation. :-)\nSo, does this mean one will be able to use the PowerBook's processor in\nparallel to the dock's processor? Okay, we're getting REALLY hypothetical\nnow... ", "A SIMM is a small PCB with DRAM chips soldered on.\n\n--maarten", "OK... I've done a little research and the price I've been asking\nwas a BIT high. So...\n\n\tCasio CZ-101 Synthesizer\t$125 or best offer\n\nFeatures:\nuses FM modulation to create sounds -- \n\tprogrammable ADSR envelopes for each of 2 DCA's (amplitude), 2 DCW's \n\t(pitch, like a VCF), and 2 DCO's (waveform, like VCO) with up to 8 \n\tsteps for each\n16 preset sounds, 8 more in memory, 8 more still in RAM cartridge.\n49 stubby keys\nPitch Bend Wheel\nMIDI in/out ports\n\nIncludes:\nAll the manuals you could ever want\nAC adapter (can use 6 D batteries)\nLine cord\n1 RAM cartridge -- holds 8 additional sounds\n\nI'll throw in a bunch of sheet music and \"Play Rock Keyboards\" too.\n", "\n\tThese drivers (updated) are available directly from Diamond.\n\tthey will even ship them to you at no charge.(at least they \n\tdid for me.)\n\n\n", "\nThe only time I've seen similar behaviour is when an X application forked a child\nwithout setting close on exec on the X display connection file descriptor.\nThe shell waited for a ConfigureNotify event that never arrived because it got\npicked up by the child. Sometimes the shell correctly got the ConfigureNotify if\nthe timing was 'right'.\n", "\nI have both!\n\nI have IDE only on my DROS box and IDE and SCSI on my Unix box.\n\nIDE on the DROS box 'cos it only has a hard disk, SCSI on my Unix box 'cos it\nhas a SCSI hard disk, CD-ROM and tape.\n\nI bought SCSI as it makes adding many devices easier. For the price of one\nirq and dma I have three different types of device connected up.\n\nFaster drives are also available for SCSI - I have a DEC DSP3085s that realy\ndoes have a 9ms average seek time. I.E it finds data 25% faster than my 12ms\nToshiba drive.\n\n\nI don't think that SCSI will increase your data transfer much on an ISA bus :-(\n\n\n890KB/s is pretty good...\n\n\nMany state of the art SCSI disks use the *SAME* mechanicals as many state of the\nart IDE drives. Only the interface electronis differ - look at the 520MB Fijitsu\ndrive for an example!\n\n\nI use an Adaptec 1542B on my Unix box and no-name IDE cards on both.\n\n\nCaching controller! Why? What does it give you that smartdrive ( for DOS ) does \nnot? About 30KB extra lower memory! That's about it.\n\nA properly configured main memory cache will produce better results than a caching\ncontroller! My Unix reads reads data from its main memory cache at 8.5MB/s! That's\nfaster than the standards ISA bus can ever sustain!\n\n\n\nGuy", "\nTail-recursive functions in Scheme are at least as efficient as iterative\nloops. Anyone who doesn't program in assembler will have heard of optimizing\ncompilers.\n", "Hello folks!\n\nI have an Archive XL5580 (internal QIC-80) tape drive, which is pretty\ncomparable to the Colorado Jumbo 250. Since I have two floppy drives in\nmy system, I'm using a small card (not accelerated) made by Archive to \nattach my tape drive as a third floppy device.\n\nThe problem: Although the DOS-based QICstream software works just fine,\nboth the Norton and Central Point backup programs for Windows fail unless\nI switch the machine to non-turbo speed (I'm using a 486DX/33 EISA). Since\nthe DOS software works, it can't be a hardware problem, can it? Has anyone\nseen similar problems? Any solutions? Thanks in advance.", "wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith) write:\n\nNice of you to DELETE BOTH YOUR responce and the item that prompted it.\nto whit:\n ^^^\nTo which YOU responded:\nTo which I correctly pointed out the following: \nAs I said this is sloppy and DUMB {YOU should resounded by DISCOUNTING the Mac\nNOT giving \"Maxtor 245 meg IDE drive for $320\" example. By giving an\nexample you give the IMPLIED consent that for MAC info to be INCLUDED\nin the SCSI discusion.}\n\nOk I will do this V E R Y S L O W L Y so you can understand\nREGUARDLESS of whether it is a Mac or a PC SCSI-1 and SCSI-2 are DIFFERENT\nfrom each other as is asynchronous and synchronous SCSI-1. All of these\nhave DIFFERENT SPEEDS and COSTS. Lumping them all together as 'SCSI' is\ndumb and sloppy. Take again the quote later on as an example of the problem \nin the PC world {The spec list was so that you knew where the numbers were\ncoming from in the article. It shows the article is CORRECT in it\nstaments about SCSI but not CONSITANT}.\n\nWith the way this thread has gone how do you tell :-).\nAlready GAVE them. YOU keep deleting them! So here are the Specs\non everybody AGAIN {With some added info}:\n\nSCSI-1 {SCSI-1 controler chip} asynchronous range: 0-3MB/s\n synchronous range: 0-5MB/s Both common to the PC world; difference is\n mainly in software not hardware.\n\nSCSI-1 {SCSI-2 controller chip; also called SCSI-2 (8-bit)}: 4-6MB/s with \n10MB/s burst. This is advertised as SCSI-2 in BYTE 4/93:159 FOR the\n PC and AT THESE SPEEDS.{NOT the Mac, the PC.}\n\n{I have not seen the following for EITHER the Mac or the PC}\nSCSI-2 {16-bit/wide or fast mode}: 8-12MB/s with 20MB/s burst\nSCSI-2 {32-bit/wide AND fast}: 15-20MB/s with 40MB/s burst\n\nOn the other interfaces let DXB132@psuvm.psu.edu speak:\n asynchronous range: 0-5MB/s {infered from BYTE 4/93:159}\n synchronous range: 0-8.3MB/s.\n\nNote that I ALSO give the AVERAGE through put for SCSI-2 which holds true\na Mac OR IBM/PC clone with the correct hardware and software.\nAnd since PC ADVERSIZEMENTS are using Theoretical performance figures WHY \nCANNOT WE?\n\n\nWith PC articles like the following it is obvious that the problem is NOT with\nSCSI but with the PEOPLE WHO REPORT IT! {Like YOU.}\nLook at the inconsitant use of SCSI in the below quote: \n(My comments in {})\n\"Although SCSI is twice as fast as ESDI,{This is asynchronous SCSI-1 with\na SCSI-1 chip} 20% faster than IDE...\" {this is BOTH asynchronous SCSI-1 with \na SCSI-2 chip AND 8-bit SCSI-2} PC Magazine April 27, 1993:29\nThe ARTICLE is confused, NOT SCSI. The TERM is a mess from inconsitant use\nNOT because the interface itself is a mess.\n\nSCSI means \"The set of SCSI interfaces composed of SCSI-1 AND SCSI-2\"\nNOT 'SCSI-1' as some people want to use it.\n\nTo read CONSITANTLY the quote SHOULD read:\n{asynchronous SCSI-1 with a SCSI-1 chip}\n\"Although asynchronous SCSI-1 is twice as fast as ESDI, one third the \nspeed of IDE...\"\nor {asynchronous SCSI-1 with a SCSI-2 chip or 8-bit SCSI-2}\n\"Although SCSI-1 with a SCSI-2 chip and 8-bit SCSI-2 are eight times as fast as\nESDI, 20% faster than IDE...\"\n\nNOTE the NONUSE of 'SCSI' by itself. This eliminates ambaguity.", "Hi All,\n This is the first time I've posted to the net, so I hope this is\ngoing to the right people.\n I'm looking for software packages that run on an IBM PC clone that\nallows me to display Openlook and motif windows on the PC. \n The idea is to use the PC as a cheap X windows terminal for use by\nprocess Engineers at work. \n\n If anyone can E-Mail me any recommended packages/horror stories/etc\nI would be greatful.\n\n\t\tThanks in advance\n\n\t\t\tMark Wilkinson\n\n", "[ Article crossposted from comp.sys.hp ]\n[ Author was Gordon Lang ]\n[ Posted on 5 Apr 1993 23:25:27 GMT ]\n\n[ Article crossposted from comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware ]\n[ Author was Gordon Lang ]\n[ Posted on 5 Apr 1993 23:19:01 GMT ]\n\nI need a device (either an ISA board or a subsystem) which will\ntake two RGB video signals and combine them according to a template.\nThe template can be as simple as a rectangular window with signal\none being used for the interior and signal two for the exterior.\nBut I beleive fancier harware may also exist which I do not want\nto exclude from my search. I know this sort of hardware exists\nfor NTSC, etc. but I need it for RGB.\n\nPlease email and or post any leads....", "\n\n\nBy rotating the plate around the mouse ball counter-clockwise you can open\nthe mouse and clean it. It isn't as obvious as the Desktop Bus Mouse I but\nit opens quite easily once you see what has to be done.\n\n-Geoff\n--\ngeoffb@Dartmouth.EDU - Computing Support Consultant, Tuck School of Business", "Well it seems that I have a soundblaster card for sale since\nI recently purchased a SBPro. The card comes complete, In mint\ncondition; with box, manuals,docs ,disks and original packaging.\nMake an offer..._Canadian_ inquiries prefered!\nRespond before APRIL 28!!!!!!!!!!!!!\n\ne-mail at acps7117@ryevm.ryerson.ca", "A friend of mine who owns a pc said that he recently got a program that can\nformat a disk that can exceed the normal capacity of a HD disk. Apparently it\nrewrites the driver or takes or the driver or _something_ that allows it get\nmore space out of a normal HD floppy disk. It supposedly gets upto 1.6 Megs\n(so something like 1640K?). I don't have the program - since I can't use it\nand its supposed to be called something like \"FORM16\" or something like that.\n\nMy question is whether its possible to do this on the Mac and if its not\npossible is it due to hardware limitations. A developer friend of mine said\nthat it might be possible but he doesn't deal with this aspect of the field\nmuch.\n\nThanks for any information contributed.\n", "Has anyone experienced problems formatting a system floppy in the File\nManager under DOS 6? I get a formatted disk but when I boot with it,\nmy hard drive isn't recognized. I did install DoubleSpace. Also, I\n*was* able to make a good-working system floppy from the DOS 6 command\nshell (no Windows).\n\nLet me know if you've had this problem too and if you've heard what's\ngoing on.\n-- \n", "\nReasonably fancy.\n\nStandard \"voice\" circuits run at 56kbps inter-exchange in the US.\nTherefore, you need to achieve 4:1 to get standard voice quality.\n\nIf you're willing to give up some quality, you need only 2:1. This is still\nacceptable from a speech standpoint; it will be a little less faithful to\nthe original, but certainly intelligable. That's all you really need for\nthis application.\n", "\n\nContact Chris Arthur at Chris_Arthur@pennies.stratus.com\nHe restores lots of old video and arcade games and knows where to get\nparts.\n\nTony\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\n-- Anthony S. Pelliccio, kd1nr/ae // Yes, you read it right, the //\n-- system @ garlic.sbs.com // man who went from No-Code //\n-----------------------------------// (Thhhppptt!) to Extra in //\n-- Flame Retardent Sysadmin // exactly one year! //\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n-- This is a calm .sig! --", "\n\tWell, I know of one hack to sort of do this conversion. First\nget ghostscript and check out the gs_2asc.ps file that comes with it.\nIt prints out some information about where each text string goes on the\npage, and maintains page counts. I've written a little C program to\nmassage the output of gs -dNODISPLAY gs_2asc.ps somewhat, so that you\ncan get all the ascii strings in the document. No guarantees that it\nwon't break up words/sentences, though - I've used it with varying\ndegrees of success. Anyways, try this out, it may do what you want.\n\n/*\n * massager: a filter for use with gs; does crude Postscript->ASCII conversion\n *\n * Usage:\n *\tcat file.ps | gs -dNODISPLAY gs_2asc.ps - | massager\n *\n * I print a after each new page.\n *\n * Put the following source into massager.c and compile it:\n */\n\n#include \n#include \n\nmain()\n{\n\tchar\tline[1000], *p;\n\n\twhile (fgets(line, sizeof(line), stdin) != NULL)\n\t\tif (line[0] == 'P')\n\t\t\tprintf(\"\\f\\n\");\n\t\telse if (line[0] == 'S' && line[1] == ' ') {\n\t\t\tif ((p = strrchr(line, ')')) == NULL)\n\t\t\t\tcontinue;\n\t\t\t*p = '\\0';\n\t\t\tif ((p = strchr(line, '(')) == NULL)\n\t\t\t\tcontinue;\n\t\t\tfor (p++; *p; p++)\n\t\t\t\tif (*p != '\\\\' || (p[1] != ')' && p[1] != '('))\n\t\t\t\t\tputchar(*p);\n\t\t\tputchar('\\n');\n\t\t}\n\n\treturn(0);\n}\n", "Does anybody know where I can get a copy of System 6.0.8L. It is a modified\nversion of System 6 that will work on the newer Mac models.", "I was just wondering if anyone new how I could get the BETA version of Windows\nNT, and be part of the BETA program.\n\n\n\nThanks\n\ngel@binkley.cs.mcgill.ca\n", "Hi all:\nThanks to you all who have responded\nto my request for info on various kinds of fax modem.\nI'd like to ask a few more questions.\n1. What are the advantages of buying a global village\nTeleport Gold over other cheaper brands like Supra, Zoom etc?\n2. I heard that both Supra and Zoom use the same software.\nWhy are there so many complaints about the incompatibility problems\nof Supra? What kind of incompatibility is it?\n3. If I decided to buy the Teleport Gold, is there any\npossibility to add a voice option in the near future?\n4. Has anyone heard of a possible voice option that Supra will offer\nthis coming summer?\n5. A person did mention a new AT&T modem. Is it\ngetting good reviews from various Mac Magazines?\n6. If I want the best, fastest, most economically sound and\npossible voice option, what fax modem should I buy?\n\nSorry for posting so many questions, but I think they're necessary.\nI promise to repost any answers if they're not already posted by a responder.\n\nThanks so much in advance.\n\nRegards,", "According to what I saw in a store today, the Performa 405 is not the same\nas an LCIII. It only has a 16Mhz 68030 while the LCIII has a 25Mhz 030.\nCorrect me if I am wrong, because it is possible that the dealer may have\nforgotten to remove the description that was next to the actual computer.\nDealers who sell the Performa are known to have about as much knowledge\nabout Macs as I do about DOS machines.", "\nOne difference will _probably_ be the same difference as between OS2 and\nWindows 3.x now--one will likely have a lot of software available for\nit and one won't (emulation, with the inevitable incompatibilities that\ncrop up in spite of all the contrary claims, just doesn't count when you\n_have_ to use a certain software package that doesn't quite run properly\nunder the emulation...). Developers want to channel their resources toward\na platform that has a large installed base, and in a case like that the\nplatform that is most successfully _marketed_ (regardless of its relative\nsophistication) will win.", "Hello, and thank you for reading this request. I have a Mpeg viewer for x-windows and it did not run because I was running it on a monochrome monitor. I need the mono-driver for mpeg_play. ", "I went to Staples in Framingham, MA, today, and grabbed the info-sheet on the\n450 bundle. \n For a mere $1897.00, you get:\n\n-25 megahertz 68030 microprocessor\n-4M of RAM\n-120M hard disk\n-1.4M floppy disk drive\n-built in support for 256 colors, expandable to 32,000 colors\n-1 expansion slot\n-keyboard and mouse\n-14\" display\n-0.29 mm dot pitch for extra-sharp text and graphics\n-640 x 480 pixels\n-microphone and speaker\n-Macintosh System 7 software for Performa computers version 7.1P\n-At Ease, Macintosh PC Exchange, and Quicktime software\n-Global Village Teleport fax/modem , send fax only\n\n_Service and support\n\t-1 year limited warranty\n\t-1 year of in-home service\n\t-toll free help line support\n\n-Pre-installed software:\n\t-WordPerfect Works\n\t-Best of ClickArt Collection\n\t-Touchbase\n\t-Datebook\n\t-Bestbooks\n\t-The Amereican Heritage Dictionary\n\t-Correct Grammar\n\t-Apple Special Edition of American Online with free trial membership\n\t-CheckFree electronic bill-payment software\n\t-Spectre Challenger\n\t-Scrabble\n\nEditor's Note: The spec sheet I have list's the microprocessor as a \"38030\",\n but I corrected that. Didn't want to confuse anybody...", "Does anyone out there know how to add an additional internal hard-drive\nto a mac IIsi. NOT to replace the already existing hardrive! I was\nthink of hooking to internal drive together or any other ways to add\ninternal harddrive beside replacement. I just don't wanadd an\nexternal harddrive. I'm open to any suggestions..please response to\nthe address below. thanks", "sherman@lea.csc.ncsu.edu (Chris Sherman) gripes:\n\nxv's been shareware for about a year ... hadn't you noticed?\nI don't have a problem with this. John Bradley has put a *hell*\nof a lot of work into xv, and if he feels that it's time to get\nsome monetary reward from it, that's surely his right.\n\n\nHad you bothered to consult the distribution terms of the IJG JPEG\ncode (which are right there in the xv distribution), you would have\nobserved that we specifically grant permission for use in shareware\nand commercial software. Sam Leffler's libtiff copyright also grants\npermission for unrestricted use including resale.\n\n\n\"Commercial\"? There's a big difference between a polite request\nfor a voluntary donation and commercial, it's-illegal-to-copy-this-\nand-we'll-sic-our-lawyers-on-you software.\n\nI do agree that John's readme file could be a little clearer about\nwhat he means by personal use.", "\nAgree 100%, personally I cannot flip from page to page on a screen and\nretain information as easily as in the written page.\n\n\nDitto's ... in fact .. at work, where things are dead if the backup\nis no good, I insist on having at least a 2 level backup system. \nIt seems that whenever you have 2 good backups, you never need them, \nbut if you don't have them, Murphy guarantees that you'll suffer for it.\n\n\n and mine of course.", "Help me make money for a new modem\n $180.00 takes it ALL\n\n ***** SHIPPING NOT INCLUDED IN PRICE *****\n\n * All original documentation & disks are include.\n Some software unregistered, others will have letter for transfer\n of ownership.\n\n * Will sell software seperately, purchase must be greater than\n $30.00.\n\n * Purchases over $60.00 get choice of two (2) software selections\n with \"*\" footnote\n\n W - Windows 3.x version\n D - DOS version\n R - Registered (letter of transfer)\n U - Unregistered\n * - Special offer\n\nMS Windows 3.0\nMS Windows 3.0 Resource Kit (bound ed.). . . . . . . . . . $ 15.00 WR\n\nNorton Desktop for Windows 1.0. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 15.00 WR\n\nMS Excel 4.0. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 70.00 WR\n Gateway 2000 version (all docs & disks MS)\n This is the real thing, it only shipped\n with my computer!!\n\nMicroCourier 1.0. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 15.00 WU\n Communucations software\n\nMS Entertainment Pack I. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $ 10.00*WR\n\nMicroProse's Gunship 2000 (VGA only). . . . . . . . . . . .$ 20.00 DU\n\nLinks 386-PRO. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $ 25.00 DR\n Includes Bountiful Golf Course\n\nWing Commander II\n(Vengeance of the Kilrathi!). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 20.00 DR\n\nF-15 Strike Eagle II. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 10.00*DR\n\nRisk (EGA). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 8.00*DU\n\nEasyFlow 6.0. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 35.00 DU\n Brand new - Never used\n\nQuicken 4.0. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $ 15.00 DR\n\nFranklin Language Master. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 10.00*DR\n Not a spell checker, but a dictionary\n TSR that pops up for any DOS app.\n Each word has direct link to the thesaurus\n\nIBM DOS 4.00. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 10.00*DR\n\n TOTAL. . . . . $313.00\n - DISCOUNT. . . .$133.00\n -------\n YOUR COST. . . $180.00\n\n\n\n\n\nCall Michael @ (804) 486-7018 any day between 10a & 10p est. or leave\nE-mail. Thanks!\n\n ", "\n\nAre you sure that he needs a two way converter? If he wants only\nRS232->TTL I would suggest the MC1489, its very cheap (0.80 DM in\nGermany). This chip needs only +5V. The MC1488 TTL->RS232-Converter\nuses +12V and -12V.\n\nBTW... The MAX232 and compatibles seem to be expensive in the USA...\nI paid 2.95 DM for a ITS80272 (made by Harris), its absolutely\ncompatible with the MAX232 or the ICL232.\n\nGerrit\n", "What are the current products available to upgrade the resolution?\nWhich ones support postscript?\n\nAny experiences with them, either good or bad?\n\nIs the quality difference really noticable?", "Hello there. The other day I was feeling a tad nostalgic and thought\nabout constructing an old-time crytal radio set. I figured on\nsubstituting a modern germanium diode for the crystal, and winding the\nantenna coil, etc., myself.\n\nThe only problem I seem to have is in locating a source for a tuning\ncapacitor -- you know, the old meshed-plate variable condensers which\nused to be the mainstay for tuning circuits. Well these things seem to\nbe all but extinct in their original catalog habitats. Trimmer\ncapacitors are relatively abundant, but are not really suitable for this\napplication.\n\nSo, can anyone point me to a supplier of tuning capacitors in the \n0--360 pF range?\n\nManythanks.\n\n-- ", "\n\nAssuming 68HC11...\nIn expanded muxed mode, you *could* do it. Much easier if you get a DRAM\ncontroller IC. The MMI 673102 could be used to implement this, or you\ncould use a counter and a huge multiplexer to provide row/column/refresh\naddress multiplexing. The thing with DRAMs is that they require wierd\ntiming, address multiplexing, and refresh.\n\nActually, if you wanted to use a 68008 IC, you could look at AN897, which\nhas a neat controller built in. There is also the 683xx, I think one\nof those has the DRAM controller built in. This one is for the 6664\nDRAM, however, the 41256 has only one more address line, adding only\nanother component or so. The 256k SIMMs are basically 8 or 9 41256\nDRAM chips (or their equivalent in fewer packages).", "How can one dump to the printer, the content of a VGA screen. If it were\na text screen, we can execute a shift printscr. but with graphics, we have\nto do a pixed by pixel print. It would be greatly appreciated if someone can\nsupply source code for this. Alternately, are there commercial or shareware\nprograms that are available to do this. I must be able to shell out of my \nprogram to execute this print screen. Therefore, it would be prefferable to have source code.\n\nThank you in advance\n\n-- \n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nRickey Tom | Internet Style: aruba!rickt@uu2.psi.com\nProgrammer/Analyst Project ZE | UUCP : ...!uunet!uupsi2!aruba!rickt", "\nThat's surprising -- I haven't seen any incompatibilities with mine,\nversion 6.01. The version that came with my upgrade to 6.01 had some\nproblems, but Symantec fixed those and I've haven't seen anything wrong\nsince.\n\nI'm not running Windoze, by the way.\n", "Comics for sale. All are Marvel and the majority\nof the comics are cover price. Buyer pays shipping.\nShipping costs will vary with the quantity you\nbuy. All reasonable offers will be considered.\n\n\n\nPunisher W.J. 9,10,13,14,15,16,17,\n 20-28,31-40,43 $1.75 each\n\nPunisher 34,42,43,49,51-54, $1.50 each\n(regular series) 56-62\n\nX-factor #1 $4.00\n 2-4 3.00\n 37,48,41,45,50, 1.75\n 63 4.00\n 65,66 3.00\n 69-75 1.50\n Annual #7 2.25\n\nSilver Surfer 4,22,23,29,30,41,\n 50(1st, 3rd print)\n 51-62 $1.50 each\n\nX-force 1-6 $1.50\n 7-17 1.25\n\nGhost Rider #5 $8.00\n 7 4.00\n 8,11 3.00\n 13-34 $2.00 each\n\nNew Mutants 2,7,9,14,15-19,26,48,\n 50,58,63,87(2nd),100 $2.00 each\n\nMarvel Comics 89,91,92,95,96,\nPresents 99,100 $1.50 each\n", "...\n\nYou can find cross reference to almost any IC or discrete semiconductor in \nPhilips ECG: Semiconductors Master Replacement Guide, ~$10. (Especially \nindustrial, commercial and entertainment, but not specialised or military.)", "Has anyone else observed this behaviour and if so, what have you\ndone to cure it?\n\nOne workstation in a WfW network goes deaf to any form of communication from\nother workstations until it goes out on the network itself. From then on other\nworkstatons can interact with it until some time later when it goes deaf \nagain. ", "Hi Xperts!\n\nHow can I move the cursor with the keyboard (i.e. cursor keys), \nif no mouse is available?\n\nAny hints welcome.\n\nThanks.", "I have a Sparc[12] with a german type 4 keyboard.\nHas anybody a Patch for X11R5?\n\nThanks in advance", "=========================\ncommodore 128\n1571 d/s disk drive\n2 joysticks\n1 mouse\nlotsa software, both games and apps.\nrapid fire joystick adapter\nALL necessary cables\n==========================\nabout a year old\n\n$95 OBO", "For those of you who have TI ps35 laser printers, if you want an envelope\nfeeder, they are now on sale, direct from TI for the unbelievable price of\n$45! Call 1-800-847-2787. Same for extra paper trays. They have too many\ngray ones and want to move them out. Strange but true.\n\n--The Bobmeister", "\tText & Graphics:\n\tBristol Technologies has help clone of MSWindows help\n\tFrame (makers of FrameMaker) has FrameView\n\n\tText only:\n\tGraphical Software Technology has Xtra Widgets (includes help)\n\n\tThere are probably others (check out ICS widget data book)\n\nI actually wrote one for the last company I worked for-- however it is\nlocked in their internal reuse library. :-( \nIt was a good one too! (IMHO and totally unbiased view of things) ;-)\n", "Howdy\n\nWe have been having a real problem with an AST 386sx/16 machine with\n4mb of RAM. We installed Paradox for Windows, (but I don't think \nParadox is the real problem here), and the installation went ok\n(windows is installed on a local drive, paradox installed on a novell\nnetwork (netware 386 v3.26 or greater), DOS 5, Win 3.1) but the program\nwill not load in 386 enchanted mode. The thermometer bar goes to 60%\nand we then either get a 'invalid command.com' or a windows nastygram\ntalking about an illegal instruction. I've checked out the command.com\nthing, but as a long-time C programmer, I've crashed my share of machines\nwith pointer problems and this is a standard behavior :-)\n\nAnyway, paradox will run in standard mode, but not enhanced. We also have\nquattro pro windows, exhibiting the same behavior. Spent about 2 hours\nwith Borland's tech people, with no avail. The guy I talked to a microsoft\ndidn't want to really dig in and help, as he gave up pretty quickly.\nSomewhat disappointing, really. I expected more from Microsoft. You'd think\nwith all the millions of windows installations that they would have seen all\nthe possible problems, but I guess not...\n\nMicrosoft had sent us a 13 page fax on fixing UAE and General\nProtection faults (sorry, I can't fax anything out of here so please\ndon't ask, try Microsoft), which we tried. We did *everything* they\nsaid, and still no luck.\n\nSo. If you can help, please mail me. This problem is driving us nuts.\nI will greatly appreciate any information anyone can pass on.\n\nThanks\n\nKelly\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTHIS IS THE REAL SIGNATURE...Please ignore the following demon signature..\n\nKelly J. Grant grantk@nosc.mil\n4045 Hancock St (619) 225-2562 \"The next time someone asks you if you\nSan Diego, CA 92110 are a god, you say YES!\" :-)\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\n", "\n\nNope, this won't work for a cylinder. You can have a line arbitrarily close\nto the the cylinder backbone, and yet not intersect it. The test works for a\npillbox, though. (a cylinder with two hemispheres attached at the ends.)\n\n\n-arun", "Issue 5 of the X Resource (the published proceedings of the 7th Annual X\nTechnical Conference) has an paper by Mark Linton and Chuck Price\ntitled \"Building Distributed interfaces with Fresco\".\n\nThe summary describes Fresco (formerly known as XC++) as an X consortium effort.\nWithout doing a complete review of the paper, I'll just mention the goals\nas stated in one section of the article. the effort has the goal of providing\nthe next generation toolkit with functionality beyond the Xt toolkit or Xlib.\nFeatures they want in FRESCO include:\n\nlightweight Objects, such as Interviews Glyphs\nStructured Graphics\nResolution independence\nNatural C++ programming interface\nedit-in-place embedding\ndistributed user interface components\nMultithreading\n\nThis by no means captures the complete content of the paper. The Conclusions\nsections mentions that a rough draft specification should be available in\nearly 93, with no schedule (paper presented in Jan 93) for a complete sample\nimplementation.\n\nI am not affiliated with any of the people or places mentioned above.\n\n-- \nBrian Dealy |301-572-8267| It not knowing where it's at \ndealy@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov | | that's important,it's knowing\n!uunet!dftsrv!kong!dealy | | where it's not at... B.Dylan", "Hi,\n\nI just compiled the X11R5 distribution for a Sun3/SunOS4.1.1. I also\ncompiled the public domain xview3 (with olwm) distribution. I have some\nold 3rd-party application binaries that are SunView programs. How do I\nget them to work under xview3 and olwm? (I tried using the OpenWindows\nversion 2 \"svenv\" program, but it did not work.)\n\nI do not have news access....that's why I am mailing this directly. Also,\nis there an email alias where my questions can get to comp.windows.x or\ncomp.windows.open-look? PLEASE RESPOND TO fwr8bv@fin.af.mil\n\nThanks,\nShash", "Davis Nicoll sez;\n\nI'd buy that for two reasons. The tubes for TV's and radios (if you can\nstill find them) are usually 3x or more expensive than comparable transistors.\n\nAlso, ask any electric-guitar enthusiast which type of amp they prefer, and\nthey'll tell you tube-type, since tubes have lower distortion and noise\nthan transistors. 'Course, most of your electric guitar types just say\n\"Tubes sound better, dude.\" :-)\n\nAlso, transistors have the advantage in both waste-heat and energy-use,\nmainly because of the heaters on the cathodes of the tubes.\n\n-Tommy Mac\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTom McWilliams 517-355-2178 wk \\\\ As the radius of vision increases,\n18084tm@ibm.cl.msu.edu 336-9591 hm \\\\ the circumference of mystery grows.", "\n\t Are there any widgets, function \n\t librarys for drawing networks, \n\t graphs etc ? (Not tree views) \n\t Freeware, shareware, comercial...\n\t Like this, for instance:\n\n\t [ pretty picture deleted ]\n\n\t * Just by giving the associations \n\t between the nodes. Automatic\n\t layout generation.\n\n\t * It would be nice if any node \n\t symbols could be used. Maybe \n\t even to insert widgets as nodes.\n\n\t * Using different line styles etc.\n\t for describing associations.\n\nCheck out the XmGraph library in the following location:\n\n\tiworks.ecn.uiowa.edu:/comp.hp/GUI_classic/XmGraph.tar.Z.", "\n\n\tI have a similar configuration: Colorado 250mb on 66 DX/2 tower.\n\n\n\n\tYou got suckered in the same way I did. Silly me, believing\n\tthat the \"250\" logo on the front meant actual carrying capacity.\n\tThe people who do this sort of thing for a living call it \n\t\"marketing.\" Lawyers who prosecute it call it \"fraud.\"\n\tPerhaps we can have a bunch of other duped buyers march on \n\ttheir corporate headquarters.\n\n\n\tThis is a bit long. My system takes about 45 minutes to do \n\tthe same thing. Usually 4.5 hours, particularly if the tape \n\tis grinding away the whole time means that your block size for \n\tthe write is too small. Is there any way to change the block \n\tsize or write buffer size so it's bigger?\n\n\n\tThis is because the files are opened by DOS. The files in the \n\tTAPE directory are likely the executable file or the configuration\n\tfile for the tape system. I would recommend running the backup\n\tfrom DOS so it will make a complete backup of the TAPE directory.\n\n\n\tThe 250mb cartridges won't do you any good since the drive\n\twon't write 250mb of physical data on the tape. \n\n", "Hello\n\n\tI am the proud new owner of a MAC 512K. Upon power-up and insertion\n\tof the sytem disk, I get SAD MAC code 0F0064. Can anyone give me a \n\tclue to what this means?\n\n\tThanks.", "\n\n\n No. The REAL question: Should the Feds bail-out IBM ( a la Chrysler )\n so that important $80K manufacturing jobs wouldn't be lost?", "\n\n The gl2p1.lzh stuff under gfx/show on the Aminet sites includes a\n utility called pic2hl, that is a filter for HamLab that can handle\n the most commonly used kinds of .PIC and .CLP files.\n\n The biggest problem is that the .CLP files don't usually contain a\n palette, so you need to convert a .PIC with the right palette\n first (which creates a \"ram:picpal\" file), and then convert the\n .CLP files.\n", ": \n: >A stupid question, but what will CView run on and where can I get it? I\n: >am still in need of a GIF viewer for Linux. (Without X-Windows.)\n: >Thanks!\n: > \n: \n: Ho boy. There is no way in HELL you are going to be able to view GIFs or do\n: any other graphics in Linux without X windows! I love Linux because it is\n: so easy to learn.. You want text? Okay. Use Linux. You want text AND\n: graphics? Use Linux with X windows. Simple. Painless. REQUIRED to have\n: X Windows if you want graphics! This includes fancy word processors like\n: doc, image viewers like xv, etc.\n:\nUmmm, I beg to differ. A kind soul sent me a program called DPG-VIEW that\nwill do exactly what I want, view GIF images under Linux without X-Windows.\nAnd, it does support all the way up to 1024x768. The biggest complaint I\nhave is it is painfully SLOW. It takes about 1 minute to display an image.\nI am use to CSHOW under DOS which takes a split second. Any idea why it\nis so slow under Linux? Anybody have anything better? Plus, anybody have\nthe docs to DPG-View? Thanks!\n \n", "Hello, \n\n\tway back in the mists of time, I had a set of patches written\nby Richard Caley (I believe to the standars distribution, patch level\n6) which added regular expressions in the .tvtwmrc file, multiple icon\nregions, squeezable icons, and f.deleteordestroy function. I still\nhave the patches, however, I can no longer find the sources to which\nthey applied ;-). \n\n\tI'd appreciate if some kind soul could send me a pointer to\nwhere I could find the sources. Has anyone updated the patches for R5?\n(Richard? are you out there? pretty please?)\n\n\tThanks in advance.", "Howdy! I'm just posting this for a friend so don't reply to me!\n\n I have a friend who has some 1x9 SIMMS for sale, 8MB for $250 or 4MB for \n125$. He also has a Conner 170MB hard drive for $250. It runs at 14ms. His name\nis John and he can be reached at his BBS called Classified Connection at \n(614)575-1345, he is the Sysop, and you can call him and hear his awesome voice\nat (614)577-9673.\n Adios\n", "For sale KFC SVGA Monitor 1024X768 .28DP Non-interlaced", "\nI had exactly the same feeling. I was depressed. If you ever programmed\nWindows and X11, you'd be depressed if an X conference touted its tutorials\nto show you how to convert from X to Windows API. Sort of like, \"how to\nconvert your C++ classes to the new, improved C.\"\n\nWhat happened?", "I'd appreciate any advice about a video card for my system:\n\n486-33 DX, 16 mb of ram\non a Novell 3.11 network\nMonitor: NEC 4FGe, capable of 76 Hz vertical refresh rate\n\nMajor considerations:\n\nI expect I will work mostly in windows, but with some DOS\napplications and I would want decent speed in DOS. I do mostly word\nprocessing, database and communications--not much intensive graphics.\n\nWith a 15\" monitor, I expect I will work mostly in 800X600 and 256\ncolors seems plenty, but I'd like like the image to be sharp, fast,\nand rock solid.\n\nOther considerations:\n\nI sometimes run a Unix clone (Coherent) and I understand that some\ncompanies (e.g. Diamond?) don't encourage the third-party\ndevelopment of drivers.\n\nI might move to OS/2 if I decide I need better speed and reliability\nthan I get with Windows for my database work and multitasking.\n\nI don't have a local bus motherboard--I'm not sure how much to invest\nin an ISA video board (versus getting something less expensive now and\nupgrading to local bus later).\n\nI like buying things from companies that treat their customers well.\n\nIf you have any advice for me, I'd love to hear it via email or post.\n\nThanks.\n", "This is in relation to a question concerning changing the registered to: \ninformation of MS-Windows...\n\n\nI can find it with a HEX editor, although I have not tried to overwrite it.\nAre you sure it can't be? You may be mistaken about this. (???)\n\nRob", "Yeah - they also gave it their \"Editor's Choice\" in the run-down of\ngraphics accelerators they tested in the previous issue, which is why\nI bought (and then returned) mine. The only conclusion I can come up with\nis that PC Magazine has wildly different ways on determining the worthiness\nof a video card than I do.\n", "HHHHEEEELLLLPPPP Meeeeeee!\n\n\tI installed a 256 color svga driver for my windows last week. \nThis driver was downloaded from ftp.cica.indiana.edu specifically for \nParadise svga card. However, after I installed it and when I run windows, \nthe startup screen in the beginning becomes the old windows 3.0 startup \nscreen ????!!??!!\n\n\tEverything works fine except the startup screen. I know the \nstartup screen must have been changed in the system.ini file (or is it ?) \nbut I couldn't figure out what to alter! Can some one help me with this? \nPlease e-mail to my address:\n\n\tthang@tree.egr.uh.edu or thang@jetson.uh.edu\n\nIn addition, can anyone know where can I get a 1024x680 paradise svga \ndriver (256 color) ? this is a used computer and I do not have anything \n(drivers, etc) regarding the driver....", "Greetings.\n\nI am developing an application that allows a *user* to interactively\ncreate/edit/view a visual \"model\" (i.e. topology) of their network, and\nI was wondering if anyone knew of any builder tools that exist to\nsimplify this task.\n\nIn the past I have used Visual Edge's UIM/X product to develop other\nGUIs, so I am familiar with UIMSs in general.\n\nThe topology will support objects and connecting links. Once the\ntopology is created, I want to provide the user with capabilities to\nsupport grouping, zooming, etc.\n\nI am looking for some form of a higher abstraction other than X drawing\nroutines to accomplish this. Specifically, the zooming and grouping\naspects may prove difficult, and certainly time consuming, if I have\nto \"roll my own\".\n\nSuggestions?\n\n-greg", "I've been trying to get my Fujitsu M2611T 45mb hard disk (circa \n1990) to share my IDE card with a new Seagate ST3283A 245mb one. \nI've tried fiddling the jumpers to set the master and slave drives \nwithout any success [without the table of hard drive specs from \nthis newsgroup I couldn't have got that far].\n\nHas anyone else got this combination to work. The place I got the\nnew one muttered something like \"Hmmm Fujitsu, nice drives, not\nvery compatible.\" He'll let me swap the Seagate for another brand \nbut he thought it was more a problem with the Fujitsu.\n\nSo has anyone got a similar Fujitsu drive to work with another cheapish \ndisk ... or want to buy a cute and cuddly little Fujitsu drive ?\n", "\nYou still need to supply a proper ground for a Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter!\nSo rewiring is still a part of this job, however, the ground may be connected to\na local earth ground, rather than back at the breaker box.\n\nAs Jamie said, GFCI devices are required by code in a number of places, most\nnotably: bathrooms, and outside the house. I do suggest the use of GFCI outlets,\nrather than the breakers. You will end up with much less headaches. Noise pickup\nin long cable runs is sometimes enough to cause frequent tripping of the breakers.\n\nGFCI devices do save lives, if you decide to install them, be sure to check them\nregularly (using the test button).\n\nRunning the family business (electrical supplies and lighting) for many years, I\nhave seen too many seasoned electricians fried, because they forgot to double check\ntheir common sense list. Please exercise caution.\n---\n\t\t\tGary Gendel\nVice President:\t\t\t\tCurrent consulting assignment:\nGenashor Corp\t\t\t\tMentor Graphics Corporation\n9 Piney Woods Drive\t\t\t15 Independence Boulevard\nBelle Mead, NJ 08502\t\t\tWarren, NJ 07059", "\nThis is a fundamental aspect of Novell's business; they wouldn't be\nwhere they are if they didn't live up to their \"Novell Does Printing\"\nslogan. We run 6 printers of varying types off our Novell network;\nI'm sure there are places with hundreds.\n\nRTFM on the CAPTURE command, PRINTCON, PSERVER, and the sections of\nthe Windows 3.1 manual which cover network printing. If you haven't bought\nNovell's products yet, rephrase your question and look for information about\nhow *well* various competitors do printing.", "I have a 486 sx 25 and I recently added a SCSI drive to my system using an \nAdaptec 1522 (non busmastering) controller. Yesterday I ran coretest to \nfind out drive performance and these are the values I got\n\nSeagate 106 Meg: 875.1kb/Sec\t14.5ms avg seek 3.7ms track to track \nQuantum 400 Meg SCSI: 991.2 Kb/sec 12.7 avg seek 3.6 track to track.\n\nFirst off all are these good results? I don't know what typical values \nare.\n\nWhat I'm wondering now is the following. My swap file is currently on the \nIDE. I could move it to the SCSI which is 13% faster, but then I would not \nbe able to use 32-bit access which might actuall make it slower. So on \nwhich drive should I put my swap file to get best results? Is there a swap \nfile speed test program out there?\n\nFinally, I also ran the above tests with the ASPI2DOS driver loaded and I \ngot no difference whatsoever in performance. Is there any reason at all \nwhy I should load this driver?\n\nThanks in advance, I will post a summary if I get enough responses.", "\nThe *fastest* way is to use an X server with shared memory extension. It uses\nshared memory if it is a local X server (hence images don't have to be duplicated),\nand defaults to the regular image routines if either the shared mem extension\nis not available, or if it's not the localhost.", " and A VGA monitor..\ne-mail\n", "Looking for a Mac PB 100 that's in good condition (brand new, w/warranty\nwould be ideal). It should also include the external floppy drive and have\nat least a 40 MEG internal hard drive with 4 MEG of RAM.\n\nSo... if you have a PB100 that you'd like to turn into cash, please write me.\n\nThanks, very much.", "\n\nYes.\n\n\nLook up XV_DEPTH. Also, you might want to try using XView colormap segments\ninstead of Xlib for your colormap stuff. They will probably be easier\nfor you to use, and since you are using a TrueColor visual, you won't\nbe losing anything compared to straight Xlib.\n", "I think there is a huge difference in the materials and \nprocess for printer/toner PCB's. I get first time, everytime\nresults from a local HP Postscript, and hardly ever works from\ncopies of the same artwork. The printer results are so good\nthat I have quit even looking for PC board processes. If I had\nto use the copier version, I would think I would look elsewhere.\nThe moral? Experiment and find what works. Toner transfer CAN\ngive excellent results. It, like any process, gives erratic \nresults with variable inputs.", "Hi,\n\nI am looking for a PC card which does european videotext/teletext\ndescrambling (PAL). Does anyone in the US sell such a card? I once\nsaw an article about a card with the same functionallity in a\neuropean Elektor magazine, but I wasn't able to track it down.", "Here is an annoying problem. Whenever I save an icon which contains dark\ncolors like dark red or dark purple, these colors are converted to the\nbright colors. This happens with every icon editor including the image\neditor that came with SDK. I don't have this problem with .BMP files\neither; only with .ICO files or icon libraries. The problem is with\nthe icon colormap field in the icon file header. Checking the file\nwith a binary editor, I can see that the masks are OK. By editing the\ncolormap manually (copying from another icon that I didn't edit) I can\nfix the colors. Does anybody know what may be causing this problem? \n\nThanks.\n\n\n", "\nIt's the Unix Domain Socket (local connection) to your XServer.\nTry to rm it :)\n", "Olympus Stylus, 35mm pocket camera. Smallest in its class. Includes \nTIME & DATE STAMP, BATTERY, & CARRYING CASE. Red eye reduction, timer\nfully automatic. Rated #2 in Consumer Reports. $115 obo.\n", "D> I am going to purchase a Modem with a S/R FAX capability. Currently I \n D> am considering Suprav.32bis or Global Village Teleport-Gold.\n D> \n D> The Global Village averages about $100 more, is there an advantage?\n D> \n D> Concerning FAX: Do I need to be present when there are incoming FAX \n D> i.e., will the modem software recognize an incoming FAX and store the \n D> information. Once received, can I use Mac applications on the image.\n D> \n\nMy telephone line seems pretty stable and I have the Supra as well. Works \ngreat but with every passing day I fall behind on how many great 14.4s are \nout. Zoom is out of the question from what I'm hearing. AT&T has a great \nproduct from what I hear and the Sportster is really cheap now too.\n\nIf you want to receive a fax, your computer will have to be on, but not \nthe monitor and of course the modem. You can set the number of rings that \nwill receive the fax on a specific ring you set with Fax STF software. \nIt's entirely up to you how to arrange that. I've had faxes sent to me \nwhich is great but I've been home to set it. I don't have a need to set \nfax receiving up all day. Also I hear there is a device that can channel \nall incoming phone signals for about $70. Rumor also that the phone \ncompany can hook you up with the same gizmo for about $5 if that's what \nyou need.\n\nBest of luck and write back if you'd like more feedback.\n\n * Freddie 1.2.5 * Clinton: The Tax Man Cometh & Cometh & Cometh & keeps on coming", "newly\nthe pixel \nis \n\nYou could set up a bitmap with a mask in it. Clear the\nbitmap, draw the rectangle to be deleted with GXor. Draw the one\nthat is to stay with GXclear. Then GXxor the entire pixmap with\nthe screen. \n\nNote that this is a pretty effective way of animation, if you ever\nneed to do that (replace the GXclear with a GXxor).\n\n----------\nJoe Hildebrand\nhildjj@fuentez.com\nSoftware Engineer\nFuentez Systems Concepts\n(703)273-1447", "Have you checked out Adobe Illustrator? There are a few Unix versions\nfor it available, depending on your platform. I know of two Unix versions:\nOne for Mach (NeXT) and for Irix (SGI). There may be others, such\nas for Sun SparcStation, but I don't know for sure.\n\nttyl,\n", "\nStill thinking you have all the answers, eh?\n\n\nJim\n--\njmd@handheld.com", "I have following softwares for sale:\n\nNEW ITEMS (never opened):\n1. Lucid 3-D, three dimensional spreadsheet:\n with pull-down menus, on-line help, up to 8 pages of notes behind every\n cell for dynamic detail, 3-D capability, compatible with Lotus 1-2-3, etc.\n $15 including shipping (manual, 5.25\" disks)\n\n2. Turbo Pascal Express\n with 250 ready-to-run assembly language routines that make Turbo Pascal\n faster, more powerful, and easier to use.\n 2 5.25\" disks and manual\n $15 (including shipping)\n\n3. Dr. Halo III\n much more than an icon driven paint program - it's a complete page \n composition and presentation graphics package. Automatic aspect ratio\n correction for WYSIWYG printing. True color or grey scale output and partial screen prints.\n 3 5.25\" disks and manual\n $12 (including shipping)\n\n4. Key Form Designer Plus\n software for making professional business forms.\n 3.5\" disks and manual\n $25 plus shipping\n\n\nLike-new items (package is opened but not registered):\n1. JetFighter II\n Advanced tactical fighter F-23 as well as F-14, F-16, F/A-18, and F-22.\n 3.25\" disks and manuals\n $30 plus Shipping OBO\n\n2. Nighthwak F-117A Stealth Fighter 2.0\n The definitive simulation of America's radar-elusive jet.\n Sensational sound, nine world's \"hot spots\": Cuba, North Korea, the Kuwaiti T Theatre of operations, central Europe, the North Cape, Libya, the persian Gul f, Vietnam and the Middle East. Awesome missions to challenge you.\n 5.25\" disks and manual\n $35 plus shipping OBO\n\n3. Grammatik IV - $20 plus shipping\n\n4. Quattro Pro 1.0 - make an offer\n\n5. GEM chart, graphics, word, publisher, ... V.3.0 - make an offer.", ": \n: (Why do ALL postings from bnr seem to have bogus addresses? \n: Both \n: \tgstovall@crchh67.NoSubdomain.NoDomain\n: and \n: \tgstovall@bnr.com\n: bounce....\n: \n: This makes it rather difficult to reply....)\n\nThey go through UUNET. This is often the problem - as UUNET often has\nproblems with return paths.\n\n... deleted ...\n\n: Oh, and most importantly, no amount of transmitted RF, short of a\n: transmitter the size of small house, is likely to cause the equipment\n: failures you describe. So you are looking at two different problems.\n\nYep.", "The following comics are for auction. The highest bid takes them! \n\nNew stuff added!! (Cyberrad, Marvel Presents, Spiderman Special, etc..)\n\nTITLE Minimum/Current \n--------------------------------------------------------------\nAlpha Flight 51 (Jim Lee's first work at Marvel)\t$ 5.00\n\nAliens 1 (1st app Aliens in comics, 1st prnt, May 1988)\t$20.00/KrisM./SOLD\n\nAmazing Spider-Man 136 (Intro new Green Goblin) $20.00\n\nAmazing Spider-Man 238 (1st appearance Hobgoblin)\t$50.00\n\nArcher and Armstrong 1 (Frank Miller/Smith/Layton)\t$ 7.50\n\nAvengers 263 (1st appearance X-factor) $ 3.50\n\nBloodshot 1 (Chromium cover, BWSmith Cover/Poster)\t$ 5.00/SamE/TWICE\n\nCyberRad 1 (Reintro CyberRad, Prestige silver edition)\t$15.00\n\nDaredevil 158 (Frank Miller art begins) $35.00\n\nDark Horse Presents 1 (1st app Concrete, 1st printing)\t$ 7.50 \n\nDetective 657 (Azrael appears, Intro Cypher)\t\t$ 5.00\n\nDetective 658 (Azrael appears)\t\t\t\t$ 4.00\n\nHarbinger 10 (1st appearance H.A.R.D. Corps)\t\t$ 7.00/B.Matthey/SOLD\n\nH.A.R.D. Corps 1 \t\t\t\t\t$ 5.00\n\nIncredible Hulk 324 (1st app Grey Hulk since #1 1962)\t$ 7.00\n\nIncredible Hulk 330 (1st McFarlane issue)\t\t$15.00\n\nIncredible Hulk 331 (Grey Hulk series begins)\t\t$11.00\n\nIncredible Hulk 367 (1st Dale Keown art in Hulk) $15.00\n\nIncredible Hulk 377 (1st all new hulk, 1st prnt, Keown) $15.00\n\nMarvel Comics Presents 1 (Wolverine, Silver Surfer) $ 7.50\n\nMarvel Presents (Charleston Chew giveaway, Sam Keith)\t$ 5.00\n\nMaxx Limited Ashcan (4000 copies exist, blue cover)\t$33.50/BrentB/SOLD\n\nMr T. #1 (Signed Advance copy, 10,000 exist)\t\t$10.00\n\nNew Mutants 86 (McFarlane cover, 1st app Cable - cameo)\t$10.00\n\nNew Mutants 100 (1st app X-Force) $ 5.00\n\nNew Mutants Annual 5 (1st Liefeld art on New Mutants)\t$10.00\n\nOmega Men 3 (1st appearance Lobo) $ 7.50\n\nOmega Men 10 (1st full Lobo story) $ 7.50\n\nPower Man & Iron Fist 78 (3rd appearance Sabretooth) $20.00\n\nPower Man & Iron Fist 84 (4th appearance Sabretooth) $15.00\n\nSimpsons Comics and Stories 1 (Polybagged special ed.)\t$ 7.50\n\nSpectacular Spider-Man 147 (1st app New Hobgoblin) $12.50\n\nSpider-Man Special (UNICEF giveaway, vs Venom)\t\t$10.00\n\nStar Trek the Next Generation 1 (Feb 1988, DC mini) $ 7.50\n\nStar Trek the Next Generation 1 (Oct 1989, DC comics) $ 7.50\n\nTrianglehead #1 (Special limited edition, autographed)\t$ 5.00\n\nWeb of Spider-Man 29 (Hobgoblin, Wolverine appear) $10.00 \n\nWeb of Spider-Man 30 (Origin Rose, Hobgoblin appears) $ 7.50\n\nWolverine 10 (Before claws, 1st battle with Sabretooth)\t$15.00\n\nWolverine 41 (Sabretooth claims to be Wolverine's dad)\t$ 5.00\n\nWolverine 42 (Sabretooth proven not to be his dad)\t$ 3.50\n\nWolverine 43 (Sabretooth/Wolverine saga concludes)\t$ 3.00\n\nWolverine 1 (1982 mini-series, Miller art)\t\t$20.00\n\nWonder Woman 267 (Return of Animal Man) $12.50\n\nX-Force 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, X-Force card) $20.00\n\nX-Force 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, Shatterstar card) $10.00\n\nX-Force 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, Deadpool card) $10.00\n\nX-Force 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, Sunspot/Gideon) $10.00\n\n\nAll comics are in near mint to mint condition, are bagged in shiny \npolypropylene bags, and backed with white acid free boards. Shipping is\n$1.50 for one book, $3.00 for more than one book, or free if you order \na large enough amount of stuff. I am willing to haggle.\n\nI have thousands and thousands of other comics, so please let me know what \nyou've been looking for, and maybe I can help. Some titles I have posted\nhere don't list every issue I have of that title, I tried to save space.", " Hello, I hope this is the right group to post this in.\n I've got a little problem. I finally managed to get a REAL operating\nsystem (Linux, as opposed to MS-Dos) and I like it alot. But, when I\ntry to run 'startx', I get a strange response: My monitor goes into\ngraphics mode and I get this big white rectangle on the screen - that's\nall! Nothing else! Now, I've collected almost every FAQ in the world to\nhelp me but either it's too confusing or I must be missing something.\n My setup:\n\t386DX (about 20Mhz)\n\tTrident 8900C SVGA (w/1 Meg)\n\t4 MB RAM\n\tPlenty of HD space\nAny help is appreciated.\nThanx.\n\n", "\nIt has been done, but the other companies don't have the marketing\nbudgets that MS do. 4DOS, for instance, is everything that\nCOMMAND.COM should have been (but never could be under MS). Those who\nuse it usually find it more addictive than crack cocaine. But they\nhave to rely on word of mouth for sales. It seems to have worked\npretty good so far, but your corporate weenie manager type usually\nlikes to see a big glossy ad in PC Magazine. That's okay, marketing\nisn't a fundamental human right, but they've got a product that's\nsuperior to the DOS command interpreter in every way. They have a lot\nmore to be proud of than MS does. If MS really gave a damn, they\ncould duplicate it, buy it outright (they've got the money), or even\nuse the old ruse of sending engineers out to help them with\ncompatability issues and absconding with the technology.\n\nDOS is a mediocre product at a cheap price backed up by top notch\nmarketing and vendor agreements. The \"mediocre\" was excusable in the\nearly days when it was someone else's hack, but they've had ten years\nto play with it.\n\nAn interesting thought on that: Most MS products that I'm aware of in\nthe last few years allow you to access the names of the designers and\nprogrammers through easter egg screens, including Windows, or at least\nhave the names buried in the files. Is there such a thing in DOS 5.0\nand 6.0, or are they too ashamed to have their names on it?", "I hate it when my posts do that... \n\n386dx 20mhz mb w/ 4meg of 60ns ram... make offer\n", "\nI am in the market for a 24-bit graphics card for a PC (ISA bus), and\nwas wondering if anyone had any comments (good? bad? otherwise?) regarding\nthe Diamond Stealth 24? \n", "I remember someone mention about a 150meg syquest. Has anyone else\nheard anything about this? I'd be interested in the cost per megabyte and the\napproximate cost of the drive itself and how they compare to the Bernoulli 150.\n", "\n\nI think APDA has something called MacWireFrame which is a full\nwire-frame (and supposedly hidden-line removal) library.\nI think it weighs in at $99 (but I've been wrong on an order\nof magnitude before)\n\n\nI can relate to that\n\n\t\t\t\t\t/h+\n-- \n -- Jon W{tte, h+@nada.kth.se, Mac Hacker Deluxe --", "*****************[ SNES Games For Sale ]*****************\n\nHome Alone 2\t\t\t\t\t$35\nStar Fox\t\t\t\t\t$42\n\nWill trade for a good condition copy (must have box & docs) of\none of the following (SNES ONLY): \n\n\tPrince of Persia\n\tGODS\n\tBatman Returns\n\tSuper Turrican\n\tCybernator \n\n*********************************************************\n\n- All prices include shipping.\n- All games are in excellent condition unless otherwise stated.\n- US buyers only please.\n- All games will be shipped inside a box with packing priority USPS.\n- All games include all original materials including box, manual, etc.\n\nThe first responder offering asking price is guarenteed to\nget the game. Those just asking questions get no priority until\nthey offer to buy the game. Lower offers may be considered\nassuming no other offers at asking price are made.\n\n**********************************************************\n\n\n\n", "I had a catalog with membrane keypads, but I dunno what\nhappened to it, and it was so long ago that I forget the\nname of the company. Anyway, you could make your own\nlegend and slip it behind the bezel. Really nice and \nreasonably priced. Can anyone tell me where to get some\nmore of these critters? I've tried several places, but\nnone of them seem to have keypads which allow you to use\nyour own legend.\n\nAny suggestion would be appreciated.\n", "Can someone out there tell me how to switch Window's screen resolution\nquickly and easily? I know that I can go back into install to do it,\nbut what I'd really like is to have is the ability to just change a\ncouple of startup or configuration files and have the resolution\nchanged. I already have both video drivers that I need on my system,\nso that isn't a problem.\n \nThanks,\n \nSean.\n ", "\n\nYou shouldn't have ignored the ZyXEL. It can be purchased with a \"Mac\nbundle\", which includes a hardware-handshaking cable and FaxSTF software.\nThe bundle adds between $35 and $60 to the price of the modem, depending\non the supplier. It is true that the modem has no Mac-specific docs,\nbut it doesn't require much 'tweaking' (aside from setting &D0 in the\ninit string, to enable hardware handshaking).\n\nFor more information on the ZyXEL, including sources, look at various files \non sumex-aim.stanford.edu, in info-mac/report.", "\nSorry!! :-)\n\nCall the four points A, B, C and D. Any three of them must be\nnon-collinear (otherwise all three could not lie on the surface\nof a sphere) and all four must not be coplaner (otherwise either\nthey cannot all lie on a sphere or they define an infinity of them).\n\nA, B and C define a circle. The perpendicular bisectors of AB, BC\nand CA meet in a point (P, say) which is the centre of this circle.\nThis circle must lie on the surface of the desired sphere.\n\nConsider the normal to the plane ABC passing through P. All points\non this normal are equidistant from A, B and C and its circle (in\nfact it is a diameter of the desired sphere). Take the plane\ncontaining this normal and D (if D lies on the normal any\nplane containing the normal will do); this plane is at right angles\nto the ABC one.\n\nLet E be the point (there are normally two of them) on the circumference\nof the ABC circle which lies in this plane. We need a point Q on the\nnormal such that EQ = DQ. But the intersection of the perpendicular\nbisector of ED and the normal is such a point (and it exists since D is\nnot in the plane ABC, and so ED is not at right angles to the normal).\n\n\nAlgorithm:\n\nIs the sphere well defined?\n (1) Check that A and B are not coincident (=> failure).\n (2) Find the line AB and check that C does not lie on it (=> failure).\n (3) Find the plane ABC and check that D does not lie in it (=> failure).\nYes. Find its centre.\n (1) Find the perpendicular bisectors of AB and AC.\n (2) Find their point of intersection (P).\n (3) Find the normal to the plane ABC passing through P (line N).\n (4) Find the plane containing N and D; find the point E on the\n\tABC circle in this plane (if D lies on N, take E as A).\n (4) Find the perpendicular bisector of ED (line L)\n (5) Find the point of intersection of N and L (Q).\nQ is the centre of the desired sphere\n\n\nPictures:\n\n(1) In the plane ABC\n\n\t\t\tA\n\n\n P\n \n B C\n\n(2) At right-angles to ABC, in the plane containing N and D\n\n\t\t\tE\n\n\n D\n\n line N\n --------------------P-------------Q---------------------------\n\n\nNumerically:\n\nIf ED << EP then Q will be very close to P (relative to the radius\nof the ABC circle) and subject to error. It's best to choose D so\nthat the least of AD, BD and CD is larger than for any other choice.", "Nintendo 8 bit system, power pad, light gun (zapper), 2 controllers\n\nGames: Supermario, duck hunt, power field, and wings.\n\nAsking $80.\n", ": \n: >Similarly, people usually use dB for dBm. Another common mistake is spelling\n: >``db'' instead of ``dB'' as you did in your article. See the ``B'' is for \n: >``Bell'' company, the mother of AT&T and should be capitalized.\n: \n: Thus, a deciBell (deci-, l., tenth of + Bell) is a fractional part of the \n: original Bell. For example, SouthWestern Bell is a deciBell.\n\nOut of what hat did you pull this one? dB is a ratio not an RBOC! \n\n: And the measure of current, Amp, is actually named after both the AMP company\n: and the Amphenol company. Both companies revolutionized electronics by\n: simulatenously realizing that the performance of connectors and sockets \n: were affected by the amount of current running through the wires.\n\nSorry. The unit for current is the AMPERE which is the name of a french-man\nnamed AMPERE who studied electrical current. The term AMP is just an abbreviation\nof it. The company AMP came after the AMPERE unit was already in use.\n \n: The Ohmite company was the first to characterize resistances by numbers, thus\n: our use of the Ohms...\n\nI don't know about this one, but it doesn't sound right.\n \n: \n: Alexander Graham Bell, actually, is where Bell came from... \nWell you got one thing right!\n: \n: \n: \n: Actually, Bel refers\n: \n: > With highest regards,\n: > Babak Sehari.\n: \n: >-- \n: -- \n: Joseph Chiu | josephc@cco.caltech.edu \"OS/2: You gotta get this thing!\" \n: MSC 380 - Caltech | \n: Pasadena, CA 91126 | OS/2: The operating system of tomorrow, today.\n: +1 818 449 5457 | ", "\n\n\nAnother program which produces this effect is:\n- SpyGlass Transform 2.1 (while contouring a big 257*257 array).\n\nThanks for any information about this problem,", "I am selling the following sets of comics. Listed are the guide\nprices (Overstreet, or Comics Values Monthly or Wizard if I couldn't\nfind it in Overstreet) as well as my price.\n\nFeel free to ask me about single items from the sets, as I often have\nextra copies of some of the items in the set. \n\nAll comics are Near Mint to Mint unless otherwise noted.\n\nSet #\tTitles\t\t\t\t\tGuide\t\tPRICE\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n1. Adventure Comics Set (VF-NM unless noted)\t$130.00\t\t$100.00\n\t\t296, 304, 312, 313, 319 (F-VF)\n\n2. Animal Man Set\t\t\t\t$ 46.00\t\t$ 30.00\n\tAnimal Man 35-38, 41\n\tAnimal Man TPB Reprint #1\n\tWonder Woman 267 (Re-intro Animal Man)\n\n3. Avengers Set\t\t\t\t\t$ 21.00\t\t$ 9.00\n\tAvengers 263, 272, 300, 306, 324, 329\n\tAvengers Annual 15, 18, 19\n\n4. Fish Police\t\t\t\t\t$ 22.50\t\t$ 9.00\n\tFish Police 3-7, 9 \n\n5. Green Arrow\t\t\t\t\t$ 35.50 \t$ 15.00\n\tGreen Arrow 1-9, 12, 47-51\n\n6. Infinity Gauntlet\t\t\t\t$ 17.00\t\t$ 9.00\n\tInfinity Gauntlet 1-3\n\n7. Legion of Super-Heroes\t\t\t$ 8.00\t\t$ 5.00\n\tLegion of Super-Heroes 294\n\tLegion of Super-Heroes (1989) 1, 21\n\tL.E.G.I.O.N. 29, 30\n\n8. Lone Wolf and Cub\t\t\t\t$ 22.00\t\t$ 15.00\n\tLone Wolf and Cub 5-10, 18, 19, 21-23\n\n9. Omega Men\t\t\t\t\t$ 23.00\t\t$ 15.00\n\tOmega Men 3, 10\n\tOmega Men Annual 1, 2\n\n10. Outcasts\t\t\t\t\t$ 21.00\t\t$ 10.00\n\tOutcasts 1-12\n\n11. Ragman\t\t\t\t\t$ 9.00\t\t$ 5.00\n\tRagman 1-5\n\n12. Retief\t\t\t\t\t$ 16.25\t\t$ 9.00\n\tRetief Volume 1 (Mad Dog) 1-6\n\tRetief Volume 2 (Adventure) 1\n\tRetief of the C.D.T.\n\n13. Silver Blade\t\t\t\t$ 24.00\t\t$ 9.00\n\tSilver Blade 1-12\n\n16. Slash Maraud\t\t\t\t$ 10.50\t\t$ 5.00\n\tSlash Maraud 1-6\n\n17. Sleepwalker\t\t\t\t\t$ 16.25\t\t$ 10.00\n\tSleepwalker 1, 4-13\n\n18. Star Trek\t\t\t\t\t$ 30.00\t\t$ 20.00\n\tStar Trek (Marvel) 3 (VG), 6 (F),\n\t\t\t 10 (VF)\n\tStar Trek: Next Generation (mini) 1\n\tStar Trek: Next Generation (series) 1,2 \n\n19. Strange Adventures (VF-NM unless noted)\t$260.00\t\t$200.00\n\tStrange Adventures 91, 124, 125, 128,\n\t\t\t 140, 144, 146 (F-VF),\n\t\t\t 147 (G), 148 (G), 150,\n\t\t\t 152, 166, 169, 171,\n\t\t\t 174, 205 (F-VF)\n\n20. Superman\t\t\t\t\t$ 18.40\t\t$ 10.00\n\tSuperman 2, 4, 7, 53\n\tSuperman Annual 1-3\n\tSuperman The Earth Stealers\n\tSuperman The Man of Steel 1\n\n21. Trekker\t\t\t\t\t$ 9.50\t\t$ 5.00\n\tTrekker 1-6\n\n22. Trouble with Girls\t\t\t\t$ 20.00\t\t$ 9.00\n\tApache Dick 1-3\n\tTrouble with Girls (Eternity) 5, 11-14\n\tTrouble with Girls (Comico) 2, 4\n\n23. V For Vendetta\t\t\t\t$ 8.00\t\t$ 5.00\n\tV For Vendetta 6, 7, 9, 10\n\n24. Video Jack\t\t\t\t\t$ 12.00\t\t$ 5.00\n\tVideo Jack 1-6\n\n25. Warlock and The Infinity Watch\t\t$ 19.00\t\t$ 10.00\n\tWarlock and the Infinity Watch 2-9\n\n26. Warriors\t\t\t\t\t$ 6.50\t\t$ 5.00\n\tWarriors 1-3\n\n27. X-Terminators\t\t\t\t$ 7.25\t\t$ 5.00\n\tX-Terminators 1-4\t\n\nI guarantee comic grading satisfaction. If you are not satisfied with the\ngrade I've assigned to the book, you can send it back and I will refund your\nmoney minus shipping costs.\n\nI have thousands of other comics, so if you are looking for something in\nparticular, please let me know. I might be able to help out.\n\nI reserve the right to refuse any offer.", "Technion - Israel Institute of Technology\n Department of Computer Science\n\n GRADUATE STUDIES IN COMPUTER GRAPHICS\n\nApplications are invited for graduate students wishing\nto specialize in computer graphics and related fields.\nActive research is being conducted in the fields of\nimage rendering, geometric modelling and computer animation.\nState of the art graphics workstations (Sun, Silicon Graphics)\nand video equipment are available.\nThe Technion offers full scholarship support (tuition and \nassistantships) for suitable candidates.\n\nFor more information contact", "Hello, I realize that this might be a FAQ but I have to ask since I don't get a\nchange to read this newsgroup very often. Anyways for my senior project I need\nto convert an AutoCad file to a TIFF file. Please I don't need anyone telling\nme that the AutoCAD file is a vector file and the TIFF is a bit map since I\nhave heard that about 100 times already I would just like to know if anyone\nknows how to do this or at least point me to the right direction.", "** I am posting this for a friend **\n** please respond to vaughn%sonatech@hub.ucsb.edu **\n\nI'm working on an application where we are creating a dither pattern \nand rendering it in a window by applying it to the stipple pattern \nof the GC. The following code segment almost works if the window width \nis an even multiple of 8. If it is not an even multiple it skews the \npattern towards the right. Another problem, whether it is an even \nmultiple of 8 or not, is a series of vertical lines spaced 8 pixels \napart.\n\n\nextern\tDisplay\t *dpy;\nextern\tWindow\t\txid;\nextern\tGC\t\tgc;\n\nextern\tint\tMax_X, Max_Y;\t\t/* set in resize handler\t*/\n\ndither(pixels)\n\n\tchar\t*pixels;\t\t/* dither pattern data\t\t*/\n\n\t{\n\tchar\t*bm;\t\t\t/* bitmap data\t\t\t*/\n\tchar *bmp;\n\tlong\t I, arraymax;\n\n\n\tarraymax = Max_X*Max_Y;\n\n\tbm = (char *)malloc(arraymax);\n\tbmp = bm;\n\n\tfor (I=j=0; I 7)\n\t\t\t{\n\t\t\tbmp++;\n\t\t\tj = 0;\n\t\t\t}\n\t\t}\n\n\tstipple = XCreateBitmapFromData(dpy, xid, bm, Max_X, Max_Y);\n\tfree(bm);\n\n\tXClearWindow(dpy, xid);\n\n\tXSetStipple(dpy, gc, stipple);\n\tXSetFillStyle(dpy, gc, FillStippled);\n\tXFillRectangle(dpy, xid, gc, 0, 0, Max_X, Max_Y);\n\tXSetFillStyle(dpy, gc, FillSolid);\n\t}\n\nI suspect the answer is to pad the data.\n", "Hello\n\nI have a question about the demo files for amipro v3 uploaded in cica.\nI downloaded it and tryied to install it. However, it didn't work. \nIn addition, it altered or eliminated my NWRES2.dll file so that I had\nto reinstall my Norton Desktop again.\n\nIs there anything I have to know to install it or do I eventually have \nto ask Lotus to send a working model to me (I heard that they have it)?\nI just want to see its look and feel before buying it.\n\nAny pointer would be greatly appreciated.\nThank you", "1. Software publishing SuperBase 4 windows v.1.3 --->$80\n\n2. OCR System ReadRight v.3.1 for Windows --->$65\n\n3. OCR System ReadRight v.2.01 for DOS --->$65\n\n4. Unregistered Zortech 32 bit C++ Compiler v.3.1 --->$ 250\n with Multiscope windows Debugger,\n WhiteWater Resource Toolkit, Library Source Code\n\n5. Glockenspiel/ImageSoft Commonview 2 Windows\n Applications Framework for Borland C++ --->$70\n\n6. Spontaneous Assembly Library With Source Code --->$50\n\n7. Microsoft Macro Assembly 6.0 --->$50\n\n8. Microsoft Windows v.3.1 SDK Documentation --->$125\n\n9. Microsoft FoxPro V.2.0 --->$75\n\n10. WordPerfect 5.0 Developer's Toolkit --->$20\n\n11. Kedwell Software DataBoss v.3.5 C Code Generator --->$100\n\n12. Kedwell InstallBoss v.2.0 Installation Generator --->$35\n\n13. Liant Software C++/Views v.2.1\n Windows Application Framework with Source Code --->$195\n\n14. IBM OS/2 2.0 & Developer's Toolkit --->$95\n\n15. CBTree DOS/Windows Library with Source Code --->$120\n\n16. Symantec TimeLine for Windows --->$90\n\n17. TimeSlip TimeSheet Professional for Windows --->$30", "Subject says it all, though I should specify that I'm looking for solutions\nthat DON'T require me purchasing specific chips, etc....\n\nIn other words, is there some sort of neural network circuit I could build\nafter a visit to a local R-Shack?", "When constructing active filters, odd values of resistor are often required \n(i.e. something like a 3.14 K Ohm resistor).(It seems best to choose common \ncapacitor values and cope with the strange resistances then demanded).\n\nIs there a PD program out there that will work out how best to make up such\na resistance, given fixed resistors of the standard 12 values per decade?.(1,\n1.2,1.5,1.8,2.2,3.3 etc ). It is a common enough problem, yet I cant \nrecall seing a program that tells that Rx+Ry//Rz gives Rq, starting with \nq and finding prefered values x,y and z.\n", "I have a novell 2.0a that I will sell for $692 which can be upgraded to 3.11\nfor $460. The novell has complete documentation but no network cards except\nthe ID card.\n\n\n-- ", "\n\n\nWe had the same problem in our company. We changed the keyboard-bios and\nafter that, everything went fine. Our dealer told us that some boards of\nthat series have a defect kbd-bios.\n\nMichael", "[discussing the use of IRQ 7]\n\n\n\nTo put it a little differently:\n\n - IRQ 7 is the de facto standard interrupt assigned to be used by the\n printer adapter to announce its completion of some activity.\n\n - DOS doesn't monitor IRQ 7; it uses other means to determine when it's\n time to send out another byte to the printer.\n\n - Most (all?) (hardware) printer adapters have the ability to disable\n the use of IRQ 7, usually by merely breaking the connection between\n the ISA pin and the associated driver. Other adapters control the\n IRQ line by a tri-state driver, and by programming just leave it\n in the high-impedence mode.\n\n - Unfortunately, there are a lot of adapter cards which use bistate\n drivers (i.e., either assert high or assert low) for the IRQ lines\n rather than tristate drivers (assert high, assert low, or don't\n assert anything). The presence of such a card on an IRQ line precludes\n the use of that IRQ by any other adapter unless it is physically \n disconnected by a jumper.\n\n (Incidentally, note that there's no requirement that a card hold\n the IRQ line low when no interrupt is desired. If that were true\n you would have to somehow tie down all unconnected IRQ lines, and\n that certainly isn't a requirement.)\n\n - Non-DOS operating systems (OS/2, NT (?), various Unices or whatever the\n proper plural of Unix might be) require the use of IRQ 7 for performance\n reasons. \n\nAnd the SB16, alas, is one of the cards which uses bistate drivers.", "\nI've seen them in surplus stores. All they are are fluorescent bulbs \nwithout the phosphor, and a UV transparent bulb (special glass). I've\nalso seen incandescent versions that you screw into an ordinary 120VAC\nsocket, probably not what you want.\n\n\nAs far as I know, near UV (as opposed to far-UV) is longwave UV (near\nthe visible spectrum). Longwave UV is safer as far as accidental (I hope)\nexposure to the eyes. As far as fluorescent minerals go (the reason a\nfriend has a UV lamp), some only respond to only one of short or long UV.\n\nHope this helps.\n\nDave.\n\n\n\n ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ", "\n\n\nI know this is kinda off the subject of sci.space, but not really, I want to\nanswer this for their, as well as everyone else's information. What these\npeople are proposing, by and large already exists and can be purchased today.\n\nIt is called labview by National Instruments. IT is a wonderful object\noriented graphical programming language. IT has been implemented on\nboth Mac's PC's and VME unix boxes. IT is fare superior to any programming\napproach that I have ever seen and allowed us to decrease the software\ndevelopment time for our shuttle payloads by 90 percent. This program is\nnot dependendant on specific hardware and already has exensive analysis \ncapability.\n\nWhy re-invent the wheel on a platform that may not exist? It is a great\nidea but look out there at what is available today. The Hydrogen leak on\nthe Shuttle was found using this software. All SSME control and simulation\nstudies, along with the real testing at MSFC is handled with LabVIEW. There\nare tons of applications, with the ability to create \"virtual\" instruments\nthat can accomplish any specific custom task the maker desires. With the\naddition of IEEE-488 support, the computer becomes a virtual control station,\nallowing the graphic representation of remote instrumentation. With serial\nI/O support that instrument can be anywhere. The ground control software\nfor the main control of SEDSAT 1 will utilize this approach.", "\n\nExcellent suggestion, Ron. And as a further comment on DOS 6, if\nyou decide to install Windows standalone configuration completely,\nin more than 1 directory on your hard drive, and use DOS 6 to\njump to a specific copy for each user, you could be saving yourself\nmany megs of disk space if you use the SETUP /N and /A technique!!\n", "\nSorry, that's a feature. The ICCCM specifies how the app should set its title, so the wm is obliged to do it. If this bothers you, complain to the app writer.\n\n\nWrite your own wm that doesn't support the ICCCM. Or write an program that you give a window ID and a title. The your program can set the windows title for the app and then if the app changes it, your program switches it back again.\n\n", "\nThis may work, but won't it involve invoking the applications, e.g. if you\ndrag a .bmp or .txt file to the min. Print Manager icon, won't it RUN\nNotepad and Paintbrush before printing? If you just want to drag a file\n(.txt or .bmp) to a print server icon, with stay at front attributes, you\nneed an intelligent Print Manager drag and drop client like Amish Print 2.0.", "You unfortunately failed to mention if the error occurs with the Parity Error\nChecking enabled or disabled. I assume you mean it gives you a parity error\nwhen it's enabled, and not when it's disabled. How high will the count go on\nthe memory check at boot-up before this error occurs? Does the system beep\nat all; if so what's the pattern of beeps? The error could be occuring in\nCache memory (not so likely) or video memory, as well as the simms.\n\nThe fact that you have AMI bios is not conclusive in determining the board\nmanufacturer either. Boards are made by thousands of small Taiwanese companies\n(among others) that buy the name brand chips and put them together with some\nsimm sockets to make your board. I tend to doubt your problem is with your\nIDE controller, also.\n\nAnyway, perhaps if you answer those questions someone can help you out better.", "I'm new to the MS-Windows world, and while a fairly competent\nSparc/Nextstep programmer, I have no idea which development kit\nto purchase. I have heard good things about Borland C++ with\nApplication Frameworks and Microsoft's Visual C++ with SDK (?)\n\nWhat I would like is peoples comments on which package or set\nof tools they find useful or productive and why. There are a\nplethora of other kits such as GUI toolkits available and I'm\nwondering which of these are best in terms of reliability, plug\nand go type operation, readability and so on. I'd be interested\nin comments on these or anything else you may find useful.\n\nI will summarize to the net if there is enough interest.\n\n\nThanks,\nVeenu", "I have recently plunged into PC World. I have been using Amigas before.\n Trying to establish a network (LAN) here that could use 2 different printers.\n Panasonic KXP2124 for printing receipts and Okidata OL400 for letters etc.\n Is it at all possible in this world ? I know when using Unix etc I can specify\n which printer to print from. But I am not sure how PCs would handle that. If\n they can't then I guess I'll leave PeeeCeees for good and move on to Unix.\n", "Please reply to the seller below.\n\n210M Formatted SCSI Hard Disk 3.5\"\n-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-\n Rodime 3259TS (3 available)\n\n New Drives, Unused\n\n Capacity, formatted Mbytes: 210.0\n Number of data heads: 5\n Number of cylinders: 1,235\n Track density, tpi: 1700\n Positioning times -\n Track-to-track 5ms\n Average 18ms\n Full Stroke (Max) 20ms\n Rotational speed, RPM: 3600\n Avg. rotational latency: 8.33ms\n SCSI Bus transfer rate: 4M/sec\n Cache: 48K\n\n Guaranteed against DOA\n\n Works with Sun, PC, Mac, & misc. other workstations\n\n These are internal drives\n No external drive enclosure is included\n\n Price: $225 each, including COD insured\n shipping within the continental U.S.\n\nPlease email responses to:", "\n\n[ This would make me a bit suspect of Mr. Ramsey's qualifications\nas a self-styled \"expert\", in fact, when I read about anybody\nusing virtual memory regularly I kind of wonder ... ;-) ]\n\nYes, one can sometimes get away with running a newer ROM (of the \ncorrect size, obviously) in an older machine, but one should be \nprepared for problems if running software that checks for machine \ntype rather than ROM trap availability and then draws incorrect \nconclusions when special-casing - especially timing-dependent\nand driver-related stuff.\n\nIn this particular case I see no reason to go to the trouble \nof ROM-swapping. The Apple 32-bit enabler has problems, but\nMODE32 works just fine with 7.0, 7.0.1, and 7.1.\n\n\nSure. Buy a used IIci motherboard. Call Pre-Owned Electronics,\nShreve, or other parts dealers (see the back of Computer Shopper\nor one of the Mac trades for phone numbers) and ask for a price\non a IIci ROM. Everything has a price. If you happen to find\nsomebody who salvaged a IIci with a dead motherboard, you might\nget a decent price. There is probably a market for used mother-\nboards as well, so they might sell a ROM anyway.\n\n\nAsk for a quote and then try offering less? Pre-Owned and\nShreve have been known to dicker. Their ads in various trade\nmagazines often list considerably different prices for the \nsame items, and their phone quotes tend to vary as well.\n\nStill, I'm not aware of any technical reason for upgrading \nthe ROM in a IIx. ", "For Sale:\n\n Roland TR-606 Drum Machine\n Near Mint Condition (no scratches, fully operational).\n Sorry no Manuals.\n Asking $200 US + shipping\n\n Mirage Rack Mount Sampler\n Minor Scratches around rack ear screws\n with Advanced Sampling Option, 32 Disks\n and both manuals\n It's a long story, but I *may* have the Turtle Beach Vision, sample\n editing software for the IBM PC.\n Asking $400 US + shipping\n\nSend all e-mail requests to: barsz@bnr.ca\n\nRegards,", "Please , I need the starting address (pointer) for the beginning \nof the color information (RGB) on VGA mode 68h (that's 68 hex, gee, \nduh!)...\n\nThanks SOOOO much (hugs and kisses) in advance.....", "SAMPE, NCGA, The University of Akron, and NASA Lewis Research Center\nis sponsoring:\n\n COMPUTERS AND COMPOSITES\n\n\tA one-day seminar devoted to practical applications of\n\tcomputer workstations for efficient processing, design, and\n\t\t\tManufacture of composites\n\nMay 18, 1993\nat\n The University of Akron\n Akron, Ohio\n\nSpeakers on:\n Advancement in Graphics Visualization Dr. Jay Horowitz, NASA\n Integrated Product Development with Mr. Michael R. Cowen\n Network Workstations\t\t Sikorski Aircraft\n Structural Analysis\t\t\t Mr. Brian Fite, NASA\n Stereolithography\t\t\t Mr. Jason Williams, Penn State-Erie\n Molecular and Physical Modeling\t Dr. Vassilios Galiatsato,\n of Polymer Curing University of Akron\n Process Modeling of Polymer\n Matrix Composites\t\t\t Dr Ram Upadhyay, GE Corporate R&D\n\nRegistration Fees: $75.00 Advance, $100.00 on site (Includes box lunch)\n\nContact Gary Roberts, NASA Lewis Research Center (216) 433-344\nor write:\n\tSAMPE Regional Seminar\n\tc/o Gary Roberts\n\tNASA Lewis Research Center\n\t21000 Brookpark Rd MS 49-1\n\tCleveland, Ohio 44135\n\nOr Email to me, | and I'll get it to Gary.\n\t\t|\n\t \\/", "Car Audio Products for Sale...\n\nKicker (Stillwater Designs) - SS10x2: 2 10\" Kickers in a sealed box. The box\n is manufactured direct from Kicker. (Instructions).\n*******Asking $175 + Shipping\n\n\nKicker (Stillwater Designs) - 2 Kicker 12\" Subwoofers. (Instructions).\n*******Asking $175 + Shipping (Sold as a pair only!)\n\n\nKenwood KAC923 Amp - 220 Watts X 2. 2 ohm stable (Box & Instruction Included).\n*******Asking $375 + Shipping \n\nIm selling the above item for a friend without Internet access... You can\neither E-Mail me or call him (Mike Metalios) at (410)665-5773.", "I have an applicationShell which uses a colormap created with\nXCreateColormap() and uses all of the colors available for my 8-bit\ndisplay. When I move the cursor over the window I get the \"Technicolor\nEffect\" - which is fine. Basically, my program works.\n\nMy problem/question is: When I popup a dialogShell to prompt the user for\nsome input I want the XmNdialogStyle to be set to\nXmDIALOG_PRIMARY_APPLICATION_MODAL. The result is that if my cursor is\nover the dialogShell I get my colormap, but if the cursor is over the\napplicationShell (or any window other than the dialogShell) I get the\ndefault colormap. But I'd like it so that if my cursor is over _any_\nwindow of my application, I get my colormap.\n\nAny suggestions? Thanks,", "Wow, you guys are really going wild on this IDE vs. SCSI thing, and I think\nit's great!\n\nHowever, I think that some people (such as myself) would benefit from answers\nto the simple(?) question: Which would YOU choose, and why?\n\nLike lots of people, I'd really like to increase my data transfer rate from\nthe hard drive. Right now I have a 15ms 210Mb IDE drive (Seagate 1239A), and\nwhat I would say is a standard (not special, no cache I believe) IDE controller\ncard on my ISA 486-50.\n\nI'm currently thinking about adding another HD, in the 300Mb to 500Mb range.\nAnd I'm thinking hard (you should hear those gears a-grinding in my head)\nabout buying a SCSI drive (SCSI for the future benefit). I believe I'm getting\nsomething like 890Kb/sec transfer right now (according to NU).\n\nHow would this\nnumber compare if I bought the state-of-the-art SCSI card for my ISA PC, and\nthe state-of-the-art SCSI hard drive (the wailing-est system I could hope for)?\n\nObviously money factors into this choice as well as any other, but what would\nYOU want to use on your ISA system? And how much would it cost?\n\nAlong those lines, what kind of transfer rate could I see with my IDE HD's if I\nwere to buy the top-of-the-line IDE caching controller for my 200Mb, 15ms HD?\nAnd how much would it cost?\n\nI actually have a PAS-16, and could (what a waste I guess it would be...) hook\nup a SCSI HD through it's SCSI port which yields an optimum of 690Kb/sec.\nActually, I have a borrowed 12ms Fujitsu HD hooked up through it now (and\nown the Trantor HD drivers for the PAS-16 SCSI port). Is this SCSI port a\nSCSI-2 port? How could I tell? Is the Fujitsu 2623A a SCSI-2? Are all SCSI\nHD's SCSI-2?\n\nThanks for any comments.", "\nTry to get axe - It's a wonderful X based editor and much simpler to use than\nemacs what is a overkill. Of course, emacs is no editor but a religion.\n\n\n1) Don't call going from an Amiga to a IBM 'upgrade'\n2) The Amiga Workbench did the job of a Desktop manager, and there is no\n really amazing good X Desktop manager in the Public Domain.\n (I'm currently writing one... but it's in very early stage)\n3) xdtm may be a medium good replacement.\n4) X associates icons with nothing. A number of X Window Managers associate\n icons with windows, in a way to ease window management.\n But this has nothing to do with icons of a Desktop Manager application.\n5) The tool bitmap is there for simple icon drawing.\n\n\nxv -root -max -quit whatever-image-file\n\n", "Hi, friends,\n\nOur SPARC workstation is now equippied with a GT-accelerator. we want to use\nit to display stereo images. The accelerator has double buffers. How can we\naccess the buffers and switch between them ? With which functions can we do \nthat ? with functions from XGL, Phigs, Xlib or Xlib-extension ?\n\nYour help will be highly appreciated.\n\n\nYonglong Xu\n\nUni. of Hannover", "Recently I saw the latest Computer Shopper and in it there was an article\non nice shareware graphics programs. They looked pretty good and of the 6\nlisted in the article, one I had (Graphics Workshop), one I found via\narchie (Draft Choice - old version though) and the rest I couldn't find.\nSo if there is anyone that knows where I can get the following programs\nvia anonymous ftp, please let me know.\n\nAdkins Graphics :AG1.ZIP, AG2.ZIP\nDraft Choice (latest VGA version) : DRAFTC.ZIP\nEnvision Publisher: ENVIS1.ZIP, ENVIS2.ZIP\nNeopaint: NEOPNT.ZIP\n\nThanx in advance.\nD.PETRO ", "I have a 386 clone, and an internal modem set to COM4.\nIt worked fine until I upgraded to DOS 6.0 and at the\nsame time reloaded Windows 3.1 Now the system can't\nfind COM4; MSD says COM4 is \"N/A\", and three of my\nfour comm programs say \"hardware not present\" or some\nsimilar error message. Procomm, however, finds the modem\nno problem and works fine! Curiouser and curiouser. Any\nhints/help? Thanks.\n\nMike\nm14494@mwvm.mitre.org", "I have the following items that I have no further use for and am will\nto accept best offers on either or both.\n\nBrand new DECserver 300\n\t&\nDECserver 200/MC\n\nIf you are interested, send your best offers.\n\nThanks \n\n", "\n\nFirst off, I haven't used W4WG (but I think that's about to change!).\n\nThe problem is the LASTDRIVE command and the way NetWare in general (and\nin this case NETX in particular) adds drives to the device chain. \nSetting LASTDRIVE=Z means there are no \"unassigned\" (as opposed to\n\"unused\") drive letters for NetWare to use, as it tacks its drive\nmappings -onto the end- of the existing list of drives. W4WG obviously\nattaches its network drives to \"existing, unused\" drive letters.\n\nI'd guess the next thing I'd try is something like LASTDRIVE=M, which on\nmost machines will leave a fair swathe of drives for W4WG and still\nallow up to 13 NetWare drive mappings as well.", "// Hope I am in the right group! I'm using BC++'s ObjectWindows (version 3.1),\n// trying to get some date processed in a window object. However, when invoking\n// the window object, the calling program gives up the control to the window\n// object, and keeps executing the next statement. The source code may look\n// like the following:\n\nclass MyWindow : public TWindow\n{\n\t...\n};\n\nvoid MyCallingProg(...) // Could the calling program be a C function?\n{\t...\n\tMyWindow *MyWinObj;\n\tMyWinObj = new MyWindow(...);\n\tGetApplication()->MakeWindow(MyWinObj);\n\tMyWinObj->Show(SW_SHOWNORMAL);", "I'm look for current patches for color xterm for X11R5 pl19 ro higher. Could\nsomeone please tell me where to get them for e-mail them to me.\n\nThanks.\n\n", "\n\tWinZip 4.0 (ftp.cica.indiana.edu:pub/pc/win3/(util?) ). It is\na shell (it DOES call DOS ), but a very, very good one. It will also\ndo arc, arj and lzh. It fully supports PKZIP 2.04 . Try using it...\nIt might be a shell --very unobtrusive--, but that also means you dont\nneed to update it with every every-other-letter-of-the-alphabet version\nof PKZIP... :)\nHope it helps....\n\n", "{Kris Gleason} said\n \"Re: what to do with old 2\"\n to on 04-15-93 11:02\n KG> Yeah... keychains. I have seen 64K simms with a silver \n KG> keyring attached, big seller at the computer store. I'm\n KG> sure you could find a bunch of geeks^H^H^H^H^H^H computer\n KG> science majors around that would buy them for $10. Maybe\n KG> $15, if you're lucky.\n\n Untrue they would check JDR first and say 5. That's how much\n they are worth AT MOST. My guess is they are worth 1 buck\n a peice.\n\n Stephen Cyberman@Toz.Buffalo.NY.US\n Mangled on Sat 04-17-1993 at 20:26:37", "-| I just installed a Motorola XC68882RC50 FPU in an Amiga A2630 board (25 MHz\n-| 68030 + 68882 with capability to clock the FPU separately). Previously\n-| a MC68882RC25 was installed and everything was working perfectly. Now the\n-| systems displays a yellow screen (indicating a exception) when it check for\n-| the presence/type of FPU. When I reinstall an MC68882RC25 the system works\n-| fine, but with the XC68882 even at 25 MHz it does not work. The designer\n-| of the board mentioned that putting a pullup resistor on data_strobe (470 Ohm)\n-| might help, but that didn't change anything. Does anybody have some\n-| suggestions what I could do? Does this look like a CPU-FPU communications\n-| problem or is the particular chip dead (it is a pull, not new)?\n-| Moreover, the place I bought it from is sending me an XC68882RC33. I thought\n-| that the 68882RC33 were labeled MC not XC (for not finalized mask design). \n-| Are there any MC68882RC33?\n-| \n-| Thanks\n-| \tChristian \n-| \n\n\n Have you changed the crystal that clocks for the FPU. If you\n haven't then it won't work.\n", "I'm using Norton Cache 5.0, which is really nice but horrible incompatible.\nSome games won't work it, my streamer software won't work with it and Windows\ndoesn't like it at all. But when copying or deleting lots of small files, only\nNCACHE is really fast. You see, to write a file the FAT must be changed. But to\nwrite 1000 files the FAT must be changed only once. Is there any cache program\nout there which is smart enough to do the same and good enough to run with all my\napplications? Any help is really appreciated.\n \n", "Hi, can anyone direct me to map type gifs? \n\nI am interesting in cartography and would find\nthese gifs useful.\n\ntia,\n", "Hi,\nI have a lots of problems using XView (libraries Release 3.2) in order to\ndo the following:\n+ I want to create a MODAL Dialog which block the program flow\n (a syncronous dialog, ala Macintosh) , as the Notice Panel\n does, but with Text Item, List Item, and other XView objects.\n+ The MODAL Dialog also must allows the Timer to be called (why\n Notice doesn't do that?).\n \nThe problems are:\n- Using the \"xv_window_loop\" functions most XView objects dont work\n (as the List Item), and the timers aren't called.\n \n- With the \"notify_dispatch\" explicit I have problem because:\n \"...never attempt to do direct dispaching from within a callback\n routine...\" as say the \"XView Programming Manual (Third Edition)\"\n on page 486 (uhm... I know this number!!! :->).\n But I need to do dispatching just inside a callback routine!\n \nHelp me, please!!!\n \nThanks in advance,\n--- Giovanni\n \nP.S. Please, send replay directly to my address belove (I haven't\ndirect access to Internet).", "\n\n\nSo what? I'm running emu on a 25 MHz 68020 box. I cannot make out ANY\ndifference in performance whether the cursor is set to blinking or\nnot (If you think about it a bit, a cycle of 400 ms is a hell a lot of\ntime for even the slowest PC). Since you would of course only enable\nthe blinking text cursor when your xterm has the input focus, this \napplication is active anyway. To repeat it, a blinking text cursor\ncosts almost nothing in performance, it just needs some thought when\ndesigning the xterm software.\n\nMichael", "Greetings all...\n\nCould some kind sole email me the specs for a Western Digital drive?\n\nIt is Model # WD93044-A with 782 cyl and 4 hds. But I do not know the\nsectors per track, or any of the other information I have to feed to my\nbios to get it up and running.\n\nThanx for any help\nBob K.\n\nroking@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu", "At 50 miles, a conventional set of TV antennas on a pole (one aimed\nat each transmitter location) should work well.\n\n\"Rabbit ears\" inside the house are probably not adequate.\n\nGadgets to plug into your house wiring are even worse.\nAt VHF, you don't want a _big_ antenna, you want a _resonant_\nantenna. \n", "My 24-bit color 600 dpi fladbed scanner can do the job for you. GIF, TIFF,\nPCX, BMP. Interested? Please write to me: imagesyz@aol.com\n", "While there are too many PS clones to count, some of which are quite poor,\ntrying to clone something that goes through regular modifications does require\nsome patience. Three questions come to mid real quick for something like\nthis.\n\nQ:\tWhich version of Adobe PS will we clone?\n\tAside from the level 1 and level 2 issues, Adobe has in the past released\n\tnew code that incorporates modifications/upgrades/fixes just as all other\n\tsoftware vendors do. The level 2 stuff may seem sound now, but I assure\n\tyou,changes will become more frequent as their customer list begins to\n\tdwindle in the face of competition. This allows them to shift people to\n\tmaintenance, as well as design efforts for level 3.\n\nQ:\tDo we duplicate the bugs, or do we make it work correctly?\n\tFrom the LaserWriter to the LaserJet 4 there have been bugs. (If I had\n\ta number to call at HP or Adobe, they'ld have heard from me.) Deciding\n\twhich approach to take depends on which printer you want to emulate.\n\nQ:\tDo we follow the Red Book, or do we follow someone's implementation?\n\tWithout a doubt, there are differences between the Red Book and Adobe's\n\tPS. With level 2 many issues have been refined but the Red Book does\n\tleave big, big holes in the implementation specific stuff. It would be\n\tnice it the Red Bood at least pined things down enough so that two\n\tdifferent implementations of Adobe's PS don't do the exact opposite given\n\tan identical set of conditions.\n\nQ:\tPSCRIPT.DRV?\n\tHaving done a lot of PS clone testing myself, the unfortunate side of\n\ttesting is the limited number of sources for test files. The primary\n\tsource we use is Genoa. And having characterizes their 1992 PS ATS files,\n\t(1300+ of them) over half are taken from PSCRIPT.DRV. It may not ideal,\n\tbut the ATS files are what the printer vendors use. I'm sure that Adobe\n\tuses them too, but Adobe's output is by definition correct, even if its\n\twrong.\n\nYes, there are some very poor clones. We've seen them here at Rastek (a sub\nof Genicom which has its own clone called GeniScript). Some are poor for lack\nof design, some are poor because they followed the Red Book, and some are poor\nbecause the vendors don't know what PS is.", "I am in the midst of designing a project which requires two motors and an LED\nilluminator driven with Pulse-width modulation. I'm using the 8751, and\nI understand that the -FB version has a programmable counter array that can\nessentially be set and forgotten to do the PWM. The problems is, that variant\nis difficult to come by. I need two or three of the D prefix (ceramic window)\nversion for development, and then lots of the P prefix (plastic OTP) for later\nproduction. I've tried Avnet, Arrow, and Pioneer. They (might) have them, but\nI'm looking for samples at this point, and they're not too willing to provide\nthem. I would buy them, but these vendors have $100.00 minimums.\n\nAny help is appreciated.", "\n \tTake a look at ftp.cica.indiana.edu at pub/pc/win3/(util?misc?)\nfor a program caleld vswitch.zip.It's as close to want you want as you can\nget in WIn3.1 ...\nHope it helps...\n\n", "Facts:\n=====\n- A Netware Server 286A was roughly moved to a new location and left powered\ndown for three months.\n- From memory it has an 80 MB hard drive.\n- Manuals and original disks are for SFT Netware 286 Level II V2.0a\n- When powered up, the CMOS was wiped. A technician examined it and \npronounced the disk drive unusable.\n\nMy investigations indicate that drive C is a type 27 (1024 cylinders, 9 sides).\nWhen CMOS set this way, COMPSURF runs happily, with 13 bad blocks.\n\nI use PREPARE to Hotfix the one internal drive.\n\nInstall will proceed \"successfully\", but when I try to boot the server, it\nreports that the software is not serialised for this hardware.\n\nInternal examination indicates that the keycard is present, and there is one\ndisk drive (or at least one large single unit). \n\nAttempts to configure a second drive in CMOS result in drive not ready\nerrors.\n\nQuestions:\n=========\nThe software is Netware 286 Level II and I can see burnt on to the screen\nSFT Netware 286 Level II V2.0a. However, to configure netware for level II\n(mirrored or duplexed disks) requires a second disk, yes? \n\nSo how is the Novell Server 286A normally configured?\n\n1. Can I install SFT Netware 286 Level II V2.0a as Level I, or is this what\nis causing my serialisation error?\n2. Is the Novell Server 286A normally equipped with two hard drives, one of\nwhich has failed?\n3. Would this mean I can not install the network software because it will not\nbe serialised for this hardware with a failed drive?\n4. What else can cause a serialisation error?\n5. What happens if the keycard fails?\n6. Am I doing something wrong? Can someone knowledgeable offer some comments\nand guides.\n\nThanks for your time.\n\nApology:\n=======\nI appreciate that I have posted this request somewhat widely. As I'm\ndealing with somewhat archaic hardware and software I'm hoping that by casting\nmy net further, I'm more likely to capture someone who has met this system\nbefore. I believe I can justify the groups to which I am posting. Please\nfeel free to correct me if you feel this is an inappropriate place to post\nthis.\n\n", ": Gateway 2000 has released a new Flash BIOS update for their local bus systems\n: Because I'm such a nice person, I uploaded them to wuarchive.wustl.edu. Look\n: for glb05.exe in the msdos_uploads section. Enjoy!\n\nI blindly installed it and I haven't had any problems or noticed any\ndifferences yet! Note that I did not backup my previous BIOS, you can with\nthe tool that they ship.\n\nRob \"I live on the edge\" Laddish\n---------___----------------------------------------------------------\n / / Robert Laddish AT&T: 707-577-3767\nHEWLETT/hp/PACKARD HP Santa Rosa, Ca. Telnet: 1-577-3767\n /__/ mail stop 4USR robl@sr.hp.com ", "\n[REMAINDER DELETED]\n\nI don't have my copy of the manual with me right now, but I can offer the\nfollowing in the interim:\n\n 1) The card uses port addresses 0x2E0 and 0x2E8 (which are NOT\n configurable). These addresses, incidentally, were inadvertantly\n omitted from my version of the manual.\n\n 2) I believe there is a dip that controls whether or not to enable\n IRQ 2 (for CGA or EGA support??!?).\n\nLance Hartmann (lance%hartmann.austin.ibm.com@ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com)\n Yes, that IS a '%' (percent sign) in my network address.", "I recently aquired a Quantum Q250 harddisk. It is a 50 meg 5.25\"\nmechanism. It is SCSI. I have a few questions and a few problems. First\nthere seems to be an extra connector socket on the back that I can't\nfigure out what it is for. The address is set by some jumpers on the\nbottom so I don't think it is for that. Any ideas?\n\nSecond, it would be nice to get a hardware manual for the drive. There are\na lot of jumpers on it that we don't know what they are for.\n\nThird, I have got the drive to format. It took a while to get things to\nwork and most of it is fine for now. The formating initialy was\ntroublesome but seems to be ok. The main problem is if you do a reset on\nthe MacPlus the drive disappears. If I shut the mac off and then back on\nagian then the drive comes up fine. Any ideas.\n\nPlease reply to one of the email addresses below.\n\nThanks", "\nThey've been out of busines for years.\n\n\nNot any more. About 2 years ago they all closed.\nWhen Ramco/Electronics city closed, it took weeks and many\ndumpsters to clear everything out (so I heard).\nThere are a few places that sell connectors and phone wires,\nbut no chips, capacitors or discrete stuff.\n\nSylvan/Wellington is still on Broadway and Canal, but they're\nnot cheap, and not surplus. It's mostly a TV repairman's store.\n\n-- Jeffrey Jonas\njeffj@panix.com\n-- \nJeffrey Jonas", "Photographic SPRING CLEANING! Following is partial list, with more\nto come soon:\n\n-for EXAKTA:\tTessar 2.8/50 lens, plus front cap, case\n\t\tMeyer Oreston 1.9/50 lens, plus front cap\n\t\tSpiratone TelXtender Model II, plus orig case\n\t\tPiesker & Co. (Berlin) extension bellows (4x-12x),\n\t\t in orig. box.\n\n\t\tEntire package for $30. plus shipping.\n\n-for PENTAX or other \"universal\" screw-mount cameras:\n\t\tSpiratone 3.5/35 lens, plus caps\n\t\tFujinon 1.8/55 lens, orig. case\n\t\tAetna Coligon 2.8/135 lens, plus caps\n\n\t\tEntire package $25. plus shipping.\n\n-enlarging lenses:\n\t\tPrinz 4.5/150\t \t\t$10.\n\t\tEl-Nikkor 4.0/50\t\t$45.\n\t\tRodenstock Ysaron 4.5/150\t$75.\n\n-Busch Pressman Model C, 2-1/4 x 3-1/4\n\t\twith Wollensak Velostigmat 4.5/101 in Rapax shutter, $85.\n\n-Hexacon SLR, with Tessar 2.8/50, plus case. Shutter is sluggish, but\n\t\tit's a \"collectible\", thus\t$25.\n\n-Rolleicord V, Synchro-Compur, Xenar 3.5/75, with case, orig. lens cap.\n\t\tSome fool got oil on the shutter blades, so shutter is\n\t\tsluggish.\t\t\t$60.\n\n-Olympus om2-N body, oil (?) in viewfinder, appears to work fine other-\n wise. No lens. \t\t$75.\n\n-Cotact printing frame, 35mm, 6 strips of 6@, lockdown plate-glass cover,\n\t\texcellent condition.\t\t$10.\n\n-Omega S.S. developing tank, (2) 35 mm reels\t$12.\n\n-Nikkor S.S. developing tank, (7) 120 reels\t$45.\n\n-Kodak Polycontrast filter set\t\t\t$10.\n\nPrices above exclusive of shipping. Conserve bandwith and don't come\nback with petty offers... \n\nHOWEVER, I will consider trades of \"interesting\" EXAKTA equipment for, or\ntoward, any of the above.", "I've been hearing rumblings about Fresco, and it sounds like it may be\nwhat I'm looking for, but how far is it from release, or at least some kind\nof availability? How similar is it to InterViews? If I code to InterViews,\nwill my code work with Fresco? How about Motif? I've heard some mention\nof versions of InterViews which support Motif. Will it be feasible to use\nMotif with Fresco?\n\nAny information would be much appreciated.\n\n- Brad", "PLEASE: response directly to me (luoma@binah.cc.brandeis.edu)\n by email. IF there are a sufficient number of interesting\n responses, I will post a summary (on April 24 or 25).\n\nI have waded through the mass of SCSI-IDE posting, but\nI missed any answers to a question posted early on --\n\nHas anyone (successfully) put both SCSI and IDE hard drives\non the same system?\n\nI am particularly interested in having the SCSI as the _boot_ drive.\n\nFor those who have managed this feat, I would appreciate\na bit more information, such as what drives, which SCSI controller,\nand (if possible) what motherboard & BIOS\n(plus any other relevant info.).", "I am looking for a source for a 4 circuit Sequence flasher.\n\nInput 24 Volts AC, 8 amps\n\nOutput: sequence to 4 channels (knob to vary frequency) (max 2 amps \n\tper leg)\n\tSwitch to put all channels on full time\n\nPlease Email any assistance you can provide.\n\nRandy \t\t\tEmail: randy@ve6bc.ampr.ab.ca", "The 800 number for Western Digital is 1-800-832-4778.\n", "Is it going to be possible to upgrade a C610 to Tempest?\nIf so, how...motherboard switch? \nProbably gonna be expensive right?", "We need terrain data for a visualization research currently taking place\nin Tel-Aviv university. We have two databases that we are currently working\non, but we would like to work on more databases, possibly more complicated \nand ones that will give prettier images.\n\nBefore I describe what kind of data we need, let me mention that we are \ngoing to present a paper titled \"Photo-Realistic Imaging of Digital Terrains\"\nwhich describes the research and the results, in the EUROGRAPHICS'93 \nconference in Barcelona, this september. We are going to show a video-tape \nwith some of our results, so any good data that we will receive will be \npresented in the tape, with a mention of the donator.\n\nWe are working on databases consisting of aerial or satelite photographs, \nand terrain elevation maps (DTM). \nEach database consists of a 2D array of height values (any data format can\nbe used for each value), and a corresponding 2D array of color values (can\nbe gray-level, 256-color value or full 24-bit R/G/B values. Other format can\nalso be used). We work on 512X512 and 1024x1024 resolution databases.\n\nIf anybody has access to this kind of data, or knows where we can get such\ndata files, please respond in this news group, or - better - email us\ndirectly :\n\namit@math.tau.ac.il (Amit Shaked), or\ndanny@indigo.bgu.ac.il (Daniel Cohen)", "Has anyone had problems with Ami Pro 3.0 after running PCTools (v7.1)\ncompress? I have not corrupted data due to having caches other than\nPC-Cache running, so that is not it. The first time I try to run Ami\nPro after loading windows, it loads, but causes (I think it was a) \nsegmentation fault in AMIPRO.EXE right before it finishes, with all times\nafter that only managing to get to the logo box that first pops up when\nit begins loading, and then causes a general protection fault in module\nAMIPROUI.DLL at 0002:1147. I have not been able to fix this problem except\nby reinstalling Ami Pro. This has happened twice, with both times being\nafter having ran compress on my hard drive. BTW, I am not running stacker\nor any other disk compression programs, and if you don't already know,\nPCTools compress is actually a defragger, despite it's name. My system is\na 386-40MHz, with 16MB of RAM and a NEC (OEM) hard drive, etc, but that\nshouldn't make a difference.\n\nPLEASE email me as I can't keep up with the newsgroup, and it will cut down\non net traffic anyways. Thanks.\n\n\t\t\t\t-Derek", "\n\n\nHijaak claims to convert .dxf to .iff, although Hijaak claims some stuff\nthat I have never gotten to work (for example, not long ago I tried to\nconvert some .iff files from an Amiga video toaster (using CrossDos, so my\nPC could read the disks) int Targa files. Hijaak made some gorgeous 1.5\nmegabyte Targa files from the .iffs -- all totally black!\n", "Australian Pattern Recognition Society\n\n 2nd CALL FOR PAPERS\n\n DICTA-93\n\n 2nd Conference on -\n\n DIGITAL IMAGING COMPUTING: TECHNIQUES AND APPLICATIONS\n\n\nLocation: Macquarie Theatre\n Macquarie University\n Sydney\n\nDate: 8-10 December 1993.\n\n\n DICTA-93 is the second biennial national conference of the\nAustralian Pattern Recognition Society.\n\n This event will provide an opportunity for any persons with an\ninterest in computer vision, digital image processing/analysis and other\naspects of pattern recognition to become informed about contemporary\ndevelopments in the area, to exchange ideas, to establish contacts and\nto share details of their own work with others.\n\n The Following invited speakers will provide specialised\npresentations:\n\nProf Gabor T. Herman, University of Pennsylvania on Medical Imaging.\n\nProf. R.M. Hodgson, Massey University New Zealand on Computer Vision.\n\nProf. Dominique Juelin, Centre de Morphologie Mathematique, Paris on\nMathematical Morphology.\n\nProf. John Richards, Aust. Defence Force Academy, Canberra on Remote\nSensing.\n\nDr. Phillip K. Robertson, CSIRO Division of Information Technology,\nCanberra on Interactive Visualisation.\n\n\n The conference will concentrate on (but is not limited to) the\nfollowing areas of image processing:-\n\n * Computer Vision and Object Recognition\n * Motion Analysis\n * Morphology\n * Medical Imaging\n * Fuzzy logic and Neural Networks\n * Image Coding\n * Machine Vision and Robotics\n * Enhancement and Restoration\n * Enhancement and Restoration\n * Visualisation\n * Industrial Applications\n * Software and Hardware Tools\n\n Papers are sought for presentation at the conference and publication\nin the conference proceedings. Submission for peer review should consist\nof an extended abstract of 750-1000 words of doubled spaced text, summarizing the\ntechnical aspects of the paper and any results that will be quoted.\nFinal papers should be limited to no more than 8 pages of text and\nillustrations in camera-ready form.\n\n\n Four (4) copies of the abstract should be sent to:\n\n\n DICTA-93\n C/- Tony Adriaansen\n CSIRO - Division of Wool Technology\n PO Box 7\n Ryde NSW 2112\n Australia\n\n\n\n IMPORTANT DATES\n\n Abstract due - 25th June 1993\n Acceptance notified - 27th August 1993\n Final paper due - 15th October 1993\n\n\n\nSOCIAL PROGRAM:\n\nThe conference dinner will be held on the Thursday 9th of December 1993.\nOther social activities are being arranged.\n\nSituated on a beautiful harbour, Sydney has many and varied places of\ninterest. The Opera House and Harbour Bridge are just two of the well\nknown landmarks. Harbour cruises, city tours to the Blue Mountains run\ndaily. We can provide further information on request.\n\n\nACCOMMODATION:\n\nAccommodation within 15 min walking distance is available, ranging from\ncollege style to 5 star Hotel facilities. Information will be supplied\nupon request.\n\n\nCONFERENCE FEES:\n\n before 30th Sep. After 30th Sep.\nAPRS Members A$220 A$250\nAPRS Student Members A$120 A$150\nOthers A$250 A$280\n\nConference Dinner A$35\non Dec 9th 1993\n\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------\n ADVANCED REGISTRATION\n\nName:\nOrganisation:\nAddress\n\nPhone:\nFax:\nemail:\n\n - I am a current Member of APRS.\n\n - I am not a current member of APRS.\n\n - Please send me information on accommodation.\n\n\nI enclose a cheque for\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------\n\nPlease send the above form to\n\nDICTA-93\nC/- Tony Adriaansen\nCSIRO - Division of Wool Technology\nPO Box 7\nRyde NSW 2112\nAustralia\n\nThe cheques should be made payable to DICTA-93.\n\nFor further information contact:\n* Tony Adriaansen (02) 809 9495\n* Athula Ginigie (02) 330 2393\n* email: dicta93@ee.uts.edu.au", "Hi, all:\n I am studying the book --> \"UNIX Desktop Guide to OPEN LOOK\".\nThere is an example --> winprop.c that demonstrate how to program\nWM_PROTOCOLS property in chapter 8. It can run, but only show the\nstatic text messages, no Notice pop_up. What is the problem?\n\t Thanks in advance for help!!1\t IOP\n/*-------------------------------------------------------------*/\n/* File: winprop.c\n *\n * Shows how to set properties on a window.\n *\n */\n#include \t/* For definition of XA_ATOM */\n#include \n#include \n#include \n#include \n#include \n#include \n/* This file defines the atoms with _OL_ prefix */\n/* ID of the top-level and NoticeShell widget */\nstatic Widget top_level, notice_shell;\nstatic Widget make_notice();\nstatic char message[] = \"Clients use properties to communicate \\\nwith the window manager. This example illustrates how an OPEN \\\nLOOK application requests notification from the window manager \\\nwhen certain events occur. The communication is in the form of \\\na ClientMessage event that the application processes in an \\\nevent-handler.\";\n/* Atoms used for inter-client communication */\nAtom ATOM_WM_PROTOCOLS, ATOM_WM_DELETE_WINDOW,\n ATOM_WM_SAVE_YOURSELF;\nstatic void handle_wm_messages();\nstatic void save_and_exit();\nstatic void save_yourself();\nstatic void pop_notice();\nstatic void do_exit();\n/* String to hold comand line (for use in responding to\n * the WM_SAVE_YOURSELF protocol message.\n */\nchar saved_cmdline[128];\n/*-------------------------------------------------------------*/\nvoid main(argc, argv)\nint argc;\nchar **argv;\n{\n Widget w;\n int i;\n/* Save the command-line for use in responding to the\n * WM_SAVE_YOURSELF protocol message.\n */\n sprintf(saved_cmdline, \"%s \", argv[0]);\n if(argc > 1)\n\tfor(i = 1; i < argc; i++)\n\t{\n\t strcat(saved_cmdline, argv[i]);\n\t strcat(saved_cmdline, \" \");\n\t}\n/* Create and initialize the top-level widget */\n top_level = OlInitialize(argv[0], \"Ol_main\", NULL,\n\t\t\t 0, &argc, argv);\n/* Create a StaticText widget */\n w = XtVaCreateManagedWidget(\"Stext\",\n\t\t staticTextWidgetClass, top_level,\n\t\t XtNstring, message,\n\t\t XtNwidth, 200,\n\t\t NULL);\n/* Create a NoticeShell widget for later use */\n make_notice(top_level);\n/* Intern the atoms */\n ATOM_WM_PROTOCOLS = XInternAtom(XtDisplay(w),\n\t\t\t\t\t\"WM_PROTOCOLS\", False);\n ATOM_WM_DELETE_WINDOW = XInternAtom(XtDisplay(w),\n\t\t\t\t \"WM_DELETE_WINDOW\", False);\n ATOM_WM_SAVE_YOURSELF = XInternAtom(XtDisplay(w),\n\t\t\t\t \"WM_SAVE_YOURSELF\", False);\n/* Add an event-handler to process ClientMessage events sent\n * by the window manager\n */\n XtAddEventHandler(top_level, NoEventMask, True,\n\t\t handle_wm_messages, NULL);\n/* Realize the widgets and start processing events */\n XtRealizeWidget(top_level);\n/* Append the properties WM_DELETE_WINDOW and WM_SAVE_YOURSELF\n * to the definition of the WM_PROTOCOLS property. This step\n * requires the window ID of the top-level widget. The window\n * ID is valid only after the widget is realized.\n */\n XChangeProperty(XtDisplay(top_level), XtWindow(top_level),\n\t\t ATOM_WM_PROTOCOLS, XA_ATOM, 32,\n\t\t PropModeAppend,\n\t\t &ATOM_WM_DELETE_WINDOW, 1);\n XChangeProperty(XtDisplay(top_level), XtWindow(top_level),\n\t\t ATOM_WM_PROTOCOLS, XA_ATOM, 32,\n\t\t PropModeAppend,\n\t\t &ATOM_WM_SAVE_YOURSELF, 1);\n XtMainLoop();\n}\n/*-------------------------------------------------------------*/\nstatic void handle_wm_messages(w, client_data, p_event)\nWidget\t w;\nXtPointer client_data;\nXEvent\t *p_event;\n{\n if(p_event->type == ClientMessage &&\n p_event->xclient.message_type == ATOM_WM_PROTOCOLS)\n {\n\tif(p_event->xclient.data.l[0] == ATOM_WM_DELETE_WINDOW)\n\t{\n\t\tsave_and_exit();\n\t}\n\tif(p_event->xclient.data.l[0] == ATOM_WM_SAVE_YOURSELF)\n\t{\n\t\tsave_yourself();\n\t}\n }\n}\n/*-------------------------------------------------------------*/\nstatic void save_and_exit()\n{\n/* Display a notice giving the user a chance to respond */\n pop_notice(top_level, notice_shell);\n}\n/*-------------------------------------------------------------*/\nstatic void save_yourself()\n{\n/* Set the WM_COMMAND property to the saved command-line. */\n XChangeProperty(XtDisplay(top_level), XtWindow(top_level),\n\t\t XA_WM_COMMAND, XA_STRING, 8,\n\t\t PropModeReplace, saved_cmdline,\n\t\t strlen(saved_cmdline) + 1);\n}\n/*-------------------------------------------------------------*/\nstatic Widget make_notice(parent)\nWidget parent;\n{\n Widget w, n_text, n_control, n_exit, n_cancel;\n/* Create a button and provide a callback to pop up a Notice */\n w = XtVaCreateManagedWidget(\"QuitButton\",\n\t\t oblongButtonWidgetClass, parent,\n\t\t XtNlabel, \"Exit...\",\n\t\t NULL);\n XtAddCallback(w, XtNselect, pop_notice, NULL);\n/* Create the NoticeShell widget. Note that you have to use\n * XtVaCreatePopupShell instead of the usual\n * XtVaCreateManagedWidget.\n */\n notice_shell = XtVaCreatePopupShell(\"QuitNotice\",\n\t\t noticeShellWidgetClass, w,\n\t\t NULL);\n/* Get the ID of the text and control area widgets of the\n * NoticeShell.\n */\n XtVaGetValues(notice_shell,\n\t\t XtNtextArea,\t &n_text,\n\t\t XtNcontrolArea, &n_control,\n\t\t NULL);\n/* Place a message in the text area of the NoticeShell */\n XtVaSetValues(n_text,\n\t XtNstring, \"Please confirm exit from program.\",\n\t NULL);\n/* Add buttons to the control area of the NoticeShell.\n * Each button has an appropriate callback.\n */\n n_exit = XtVaCreateManagedWidget(\"NoticeExit\",\n\t\t oblongButtonWidgetClass, n_control,\n\t\t XtNlabel, \"Exit\",\n\t\t NULL);\n XtAddCallback(n_exit, XtNselect, do_exit, NULL);\n n_cancel = XtVaCreateManagedWidget(\"NoticeCancel\",\n\t\t oblongButtonWidgetClass, n_control,\n\t\t XtNlabel, \"Cancel\",\n\t\t XtNdefault, True,\n\t\t NULL);\n return w;\n}\n/*-------------------------------------------------------------*/\nstatic void pop_notice(w_emanate, w_notice)\nWidget\t w_emanate, w_notice;\n{\n XtVaSetValues(w_notice, XtNemanateWidget, w_emanate, NULL);\n/* Pop up the NoticeShell widget. The NoticeShell widget makes\n * sure that the aplication waits until the user selects from\n * one of the buttons in the NoticeShell's control area.\n */\n XtPopup(w_notice, XtGrabExclusive);\n}\n/*-------------------------------------------------------------*/\nstatic void do_exit(w, call_data, client_data)\nWidget\t w;\nXtPointer call_data, client_data;\n{\n XCloseDisplay(XtDisplay(w));\n exit(0);\n}\n", "I am trying to convert an m-motion (IBM) video file format YUV to RGB \ndata...\n\nTHE Y portion is a byte from 0-255\nTHE V is a byte -127-127\nTHe color is U and V\nand the intensity is Y\n\nDOes anyone have any ideas for algorhtyms or programs ?\n\nCan someone tell me where to get info on the U and V of a television signal ?\n\nIF you need more info reply at the e-mail address...\nBasically what I am doing is converting a digital NTSC format to RGB (VGA)\nfor displaying captured video pictures.\n\nThanks.\n", "Device........ LT1839 @ IC (mA)..... 50\nV(BR)CEO (V).. 70 CCB (pF)...... 2.5\nV(BR)CBO (V).. 120 VCE (V)....... 15\nIC (mA) max... 300 Polarity...... NPN\nhFE min....... 20 Package....... 79-04\nhFE max....... 60 Material...... Metal\nfT (GHz)...... 1 Price (100+)..\n\nDevice........ LT5839 @ IC (mA)..... 60\nV(BR)CEO (V).. 65 CCB (pF)...... 1.5\nV(BR)CBO (V).. 80 VCE (V)....... 10\nIC (mA) max... 300 Polarity...... PNP\nhFE min....... 15 Package....... 79-04\nhFE max....... 60 Material...... Metal\nfT (GHz)...... 1.5 Price (100+)..\n@ VCE (V)..... 10\n\nAnyone know of a source for these parts (other than straight from\nMotorolla)? I need 4 Lt1839's and 2 Lt5839 I've tried standard\nand they said \"We are out!\"\n\n Stephen Cyberman@Toz.Buffalo.NY.US\n Mangled on Fri 04-16-1993 at 13:50:28\n\n... If there's one thing I can't stand, it's intolerance.", "For sale:\n\nNintendo Game Boy, Tetris, Castlevania Adventure, All-Star Challenge,\nNemesis, Play-Action football, link cable.\n\nMake me an offer.\n\nLibertarian, atheist, semi-anarchal Techno-Rat.", "I posted a message here some time ago asking why my mouse was so jumpy. \nWell, I think I know why, and it doesn't have anything to do with the \nmouse. It seems to be the video driver! Here's why I think that:\n\nA few weeks ago I helped a guy install the driver for his S3 video card for \nwindows. He had been using the normal Windows default VGA driver. We don't \nhave the same kind of mouse (mine is microsoft serial and his is an off-\nbrand serial mouse). His mouse worked fine until I installed the S3 (v1.4) \ndriver on his system, then his mouse became really jumpy too!\n\nIs there anything I can do? I need high resolution since I display LOTS of \nstuff on my screen (AMI Pro, Pegasus Mail for Windows, WP Office 4.0 -- \nsorry, nondisclosure!, and alot more). I noticed there are S3 drivers on \nftp.cica, but they are the same version that I already have and they are no \nhelp (I already tried!).\n\n---\nSean Eckton\nComputer Support Representative\nCollege of Fine Arts and Communications\n\nD-406 HFAC\nBrigham Young University\nProvo, UT 84602\n(801)378-3292", "Hello--\n\nI just bought a new portable CD player for the office, and I notice that\nit proudly proclaims \"8 TIMES OVERSAMPLING\" on the box. Now while I think\nI understand what oversampling is (the rate of discrete \"samples\"\nexceeds the highest frequency component of interest by some factor),\nI don't understand this \"8 TIMES\" business... It seems to me that when\nI bought my first CD player (was it REALLY 10 years ago?!), the specs\nsaid \"4 TIMES\" ... Could someone please tell me whether I'm getting\nsenile? If I'm not, then what good does it do for the player to take\nsamples at a higher rate? If I really wanted better fidelity, wouldn't\nI have to have the same higher rate of sampling during the recording\nprocess? Furthermore, am I wrong in interpreting the sampling rate\n(from the player's point of view) as being the same thing as the data\nrate for the bit stream coming off the optical medium? Does this mean\nthat the data rate (related to the rotational speed of the disk) has \nchanged since 1983?\n\nI'm so confused... \n\n--Cliff\n", "I have a lots of .cgm files produced by NCAR Graph Utility V3.00.\n\nThey are all color graphs, and I want to print them out. \n\nThe printers I own are Postscript, and HP 7475a. Anyone who have \n\nexperiences in this please tell me, e-mail me will be very nice.\n\nOr if someone knows how to convert those .cgm files into .gif\n\npcx, .bmp .... , it will helps a lot. \n", "Hi, I 've a series of images in sun raster formats. I've converted them\nto PCX formats (I can do the conversion to others like gif as well). I\nwould like to know of any software that is able to do animation for\nthese formats, and to record the animation onto a video tape.\n\nThank you.\n\n\n+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+", "Hi all,\n\tI am working on a project in which I need to brake an image\ninto sub-bands and then work with them. Since I have never done\nanything like this, don't even understand the concept of sub-bands, I\nwas wondering if there is some software out there that would allow me\nto do this. Any hints?\nThanks,\n-- ", "\n\n\n\nThis is indeed true. I prefer Windows NT. It is certainly much better\nthan Microsoft Windows 3.1/DOS.\n", "Ok, I'm being driven batty.\n\n\nTrying to create popup-menus (ie. button3 press, and a menu\nappears). I would really like to use the standard Athena\nclasses to achieve this goal, but for my best attempts\nI cannot get the menus to come up without using a MenuButton\nas the parent of the widget tree. I know this should be\npossible to to with an XtPopupSpringLoaded() and a\nlittle twiddling, but something is escaping me.\n", "Panasonic KX-T3000H, Combo black cordless & speaker phone all in one.\n new- $160, now- $100 + shipping OBO.\n \nCurtis Mathes VHS VCR Remote included and it works with universal remotes.\n Works great but I replaced it with a Stereo VCR.\n paid $300 years ago, will sell for $125 delivered OBO.\n \nRadio Shack stereo amp. 2 inputs, tone, and left and right volume. Speakers\n not included. $20 plus shipping.\n \nIf you are interested in either of the above mail me at\n radley@gibbs.oit.unc.edu or call me, Keith, at 919-968-7779.\n \nPS- I made a type on my email address the first posting. It is now correct.", "Double speed performance from a CD drive does not require SCSI-2 interfacing.\nThe resultant 300 kbps speed is well within the transfer rate of an LC. In\nother words, I believe you have been given incorrect information.\n\n", "I have a Sun 3/60 that has a mono framebuffer (bwtwo0 ?) built on the\nmotherboard. The same system also has a cgfour (cgfour0 and bwtwo1 ?)\ndaughterboard. I have been using this system with a color monitor having a\ncolor \"front\" screen from the cgfour, and a mono \"back\" screen from the\nbwtwo1, both on the same tube. I recentley picked up a 1600 x 1280 Sun mono\nmonitor, and I would like to make a two headed system with the cgfour0 and the\nbwtwo0. I do not care if I loose the \"back\" screen on the color tube from the\nbwtwo1. After looking through the Xsun man page I am not sure if this is\npossible. Has anybody sucessfuly done this before? ", "NEC Multisync Plus, model # JC-1501VMA, 15\", 960x720, $250 + shipping.\n\nPrice is frim. Do not send me an emai if your offer is less than my\nasking.\n\nThank you.", "\nTo boorishly reply to myself, I found I did have the Instrutech information\nalready. The specs (to use the term loosely) are as follows:\n\nA/D: 16 bit converter, with 14 bit accuracy to 100 kHz, 12 bit accuracy to\n200 kHz. No specs for S/N, monotonicity, linearity. There are 8 multiplexed\ninputs sharing the single A/D, so that all inputs are not samples at the\nsame time, and in the above conversion specs the all-channel sample rate\nmust be used. Thus, for two channels, you only have 14 unknown quality bits\nat 50 kHz per channel. This is poorer quality than the national\nInstruments, at the same sample rate.\n\nD/A: 16 bit converter. No specs for S/N, monotonicity, linearity. Each of\nthe 4 output channels has its own converter.", "I have a Sony 1604S 17\" monitor and I don't see any lines across\nthe screen and am only using the non interlaced mode.\nBut because of the hor. lines and poping that I do see and hear\nwhen I am usinf 800x600x256 and 1024x768x256 modes and switch back\nto anything of less. I would not buy another Sony at what ever price.\nOh ya this is I guess a 15\" viewing area. It don't impress me one bit! Sam", "\n: I've been trying to view .tga files created in POVRAY. I have the Diamond\n: SpeedStar 24 Video board (not the _24X_). So far I can convert them to\n: jpeg using cjpeg and view them with CVIEW but that only displays 8 bit color.\n..\n: Just want to see the darn things in real color...\n\nI have an ATI ultra pro card, and have found that the easiest way to view\ntrue color images is using their windows drivers and something like winjpeg\nor photofinish. \n\nIf anyone has a non-windows solution, I'd love to hear it!", "\n2SC1096\n Maximum Ratings:\n VCBO = 40V\n VCEO = 30V\n IC = 3A\n PC = 10W (T=25C)\n\n ICBO max = 1uA\n VCB = 30V\n COB = 55pF\n\n at Q-point VCE=5, IC=1A --> hfe = 100\n\n2SA634\n Maximum Ratings:\n VCBO = -40V\n VCEO = -30V\n IC = -3A\n PC = 10W (T=25C)\n\n ICBO max = -1uA\n VCB = -30V\n COB = 75pF\n\n at Q-point VCE = -5V, IC = -1A --> hfe = 100\n\nThat's all i can get from my data book, hope that helps.", " ^^^^\n\nI think it was the IIT people who make the chip the card is based on who hard-coded\nthe string.\n\nOne of the weeklies looked into this an came to the conclusion that the IIT chip\nwas still pretty fast.\n\n\n\nGuy", "I have the following items for sale. The highest bid for each to arrive\nin my email box by 5:00 pm EDT Wednesday April 21, 1993 gets the item.\n\n1] Skillcraft Senior Chemlab Set 4581\n Safe for Ages 10 and Up\n Used little\n 25 bottles of different Chemicals, Plastic Balance, Alcohol Lamp,\n Test Tube, Litmus Paper\n Manual with \"Over 1100 Experiments\"\n $4 shipping will be added to your bid\n\n2] Eye of the Beholder II\n Fun game for the IBM PC\n In original box, with original media and Manual\n $3 shipping will be added to your bid\n\n3] Clue Book for Eye of the Beholder II\n\tSolve your dilemmas in a hurry and find all the loot\n\t$1 shipping will be added to your bid\n\tFree shipping on this item if you bid highest on this and item 2].\n\n4] Ethernet Transceiver (ST-500 With LanView (AUI to 50 Ohm coaxial))\n Works fine\n Has nifty blinking leds for send/receive/collision/power, etc.\n Built-in T\n Includes one 50 Ohm terminator\n $2 shipping will be added to your bid\n\n5] Super Nintendo Super Controller\n Auto Repeated Fire\n Hands-Free Continuous Fire\n Slow Motion (accomplished by automatically pausing/unpausing)\n\tAdd to a one-controller console to allow two players\n $2 shipping will be added to your bid\n\n\nBe sure to include a *SHIPPING ADDRESS* with *ALL* bids.\nBe sure to include an *EMAIL ADDRESS* with *ALL* bids.\n\nSend bids to battle@cs.utk.edu (David Battle).\n\nYou will be informed by email if your bid is the highest by 5:30 pm EDT\nWednesday April 21, 1993.\n\nItems will be shipped US Postal Service First Class COD on Thursday morning.\nA money order for your bid plus the indicated shipping amount will be needed\nto receive the item. Please keep this fact in mind when bidding.", "I recently upgraded to System 7.1 and now I also upgraded my\nDeskWriter drivers from 2.2 to 3.1. I got the software from Sumex,\nbut it is not clear to me where to install what.\n\nCan someone tell me which of the files that come with DW-3.1 go where\nand for what purpose? What can be left out, for instance, if\nyou don't want to do background printing?\n\nThanks,\n\n\tTom", "I think somebody posted some info about a biobliography program one or \ntwo months ago. I don't rember the detail. What I'd like to have is one \nsoftware to organize the literature I'm refereing for scientific \npublications. The functions I'd like would be \na. able to do data-base managment\nb. able to print with special formats for different journals\nAny info would be appreciated.\n+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++\nYi-Ming Wang Radiation Laboratory, University of Notre Dame\nwang.29@nd.edu\n+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++\n", "#### ####\n # ### #\n # 1 2 3 #\n Facing # #\nFemale Plug End # 4 5 6 #\n # #\n # #\n # 7 8 #\n # #\n #############\n\nAnyone Recognize this? It's my little layout of a eight pin female plug\nconnector used for many mac peripherals.\n\n#####Problem########Problem#########Problem########\n Printer (cheap) cables using this configuration switch a couple of\npins between one end and the other. I want to use cheap cables for an\nA-B box. Anyone know which pins get reversed so I can do some\ncreative editing on the internals of my box? Any help would be\ngreatly appreciated.\n", "I have a 486/33 IBM clone with two serial ports (com1, com2) and mouse port.\nBoth the serial ports are directly sitting on the mother board. I tried to\ninstall a 2400 buad Hayes internal modem, but it doesnt work. Once I dial any\nnumber the system locks. I do not hear any click or ring before it the system\nhangs. The modem has a 2 pin dip switch to select the appropriate port. Once \nI change the settings on the dip switch, the system starts working again.\n\nThen I bought a 2400 baud Hayes external modem and checked the system. It\nworks fine with both the serial ports. The internal modem has been checked on\nanother machine and it works fine, but does not work on my machine.\n\nCan anyone please help me to find the problem.", "\nI certainly do use it whenever I have to do TIFF, and it usually works\nvery well. That's not my point. I'm >philosophically< opposed to it\nbecause of its complexity.\n\nThis complexity has led to some programs' poor TIFF writers making\nsome very bizarre files, other programs' inability to load TIFF\nimages (though they'll save them, of course), and a general\ninability to interchange images between different environments\ndespite the fact they all think they understand TIFF.\n\nAs the saying goes, \"It's not me I'm worried about- it's all the\nabuse of TIFF over the years, and I chalk it all up to the immense (and\nunnecessary) complexity of the format.\n\nIn the words of the TIFF 5.0 spec, Appendix G, page G-1 (capitalized\nemphasis mine):\n\n\"The only problem with this sort of success is that TIFF was designed\nto be powerful and flexible, at the expense of simplicity. It takes a\nfair amount of effort to handle all the options currently defined in\nthis specification (PROBABLY NO APPLICATION DOES A COMPLETE JOB),\nand that is currently the only way you can be >sure< that you will be\nable to import any TIFF image, since there are so many\nimage-generating applications out there now.\"\n\n\nIf a program (or worse all applications) can't read >every< TIFF\nimage, that means there are some it won't- some that I might have to\ndeal with. Why would I want my images to be trapped in that format? I\ndon't and neither should anyone who agrees with my reasoning- not\nthat anyone does, of course! :-)", "Our shop uses a package called CADCore - very good - to scan and\nsubsequently vectorize original maps into digital maps. The problem is that\nonce the raster file is loaded into the CADCore package, a header is added\nto the .HRF file which makes it unreadable by the supplied converter. We\nwould like to be able to ship some of the already-altered raster images for\nfurther use on our workstations. So, here are my questions:\n\n (1) What is the Hitachi format? - I need this format so I can recognize\nprecisely what to strip out. I strongly suspect that it's a compressed\nformat - if so, then t might not be possible for me to strip out the\noffending header.\n\n (2) Are there any UNIX packages that read and recognize HRF? It would be\nreally nice to find some sort of \"hrftopbm\" converter out there. ;)", "Recently, Windows has starting giving me the error \"Sound Blaster Pro:\nRequires newer version of Windows 3.1.\" It has worked correctly for a long\ntime, and don't know what the problem could be. Thanks!\n\n\n-- ", "I'm looking for a c.itoh printer driver for Windows 3.1. Does anybody\nhappen to know where I could find such a beast?\n\n Thanks in advance,\n Jerry\n-- ", "\n\nI'm looking to build a DSP for guitar processing. Hence lots of background\ninformation would be really useful !\n\nIf anyone's got any info, could they email.....\n\nThanks in advance...\n\nChris ;-)\n\n +====================================================================+\n |Name : Mr Chris Smith | Twang on that 'ole guitar ! |\n |Addrs: scst83@uk.ac.liv.csc | |\n |Uni : Liverpool University |Quest: To build more and more hardware |\n |Dgree: Computer Science | |\n +====================================================================+\n\n \"What ever the sun may be, it is certainly not a ball of flaming gas!\"\n -- D.H. Lawrence.", "Are 'Moody Monthly' and 'Moody' the same magazine (name change in recent\nyears)?\n\nIf not: Could someone post the address to 'Moody Monthly'?\n\n:)avid\n", "I am seeking recommendations/Vendors for a Networkable FAX. It would\nmainly be used for outgoing FAX's from Mac's on our Net. The ability\nto Fax from other platforms would be a plus. Ethernet interface would\nbe preffered but LocalTalk would suffice. Can anyone provide any info?\nThanks in advance, --Peter", "Has anyone got multiverse to work ?\n\nI have built it on 486 svr4, mips svr4s and Sun SparcStation.\n\nThere seems to be many bugs in it. The 'dogfight' and 'dactyl' simply do nothing\n(After fixing a bug where a variable is defined twice in two different modules - One needed\nsetting to static - else the client core-dumped)\n\nSteve\n-- ", "I have a problem with icon pixmap. My application has to run\n under openwindow and motif. I wrote my program in Motif with pixmap and\n icons. It runs fine under motif/motif window manager and X11R5/mwm. But \n the icon pixmap does not show up under openwin/olwm and X11R5/olwm.\n\n Has anybody got into this kind of problem? Need a clue. An \n example which works in both X11R5/motif and openwindow will be great.\n", "\nAh-ha! I'm not alone at last! Which Sony do you have?? I have a\n27\"SXR (pre-XBR series, circa 1987). That damn thing used to\nmake noise like a mad-man. I had/have 2 separate problems...one being the\nflyback, the other was the assembly where the windings of the yoke\ncame together. \n\nFirst: I found by poking around the windings on that assembly,\nthe thing would make noise. I guess that there was enough of a potential\nin that assembly to leak, so I sprayed it with a dielectric insulation\nspray--I think it was urethane or acyrilic. That fixed it.\n\nSecond: Flyback...for the life of me, I can't isolate this one. If I\nleave the cover off, the TV will be quiet. If I put the cover back on,\nand let it heat up, it'll start to whine--kinda hard to solve with the\ncover on!! :-(\n\nA friend of mine who used to fix TV's says there might be a pin-hole\nleak somewhere on the flyback. Usually it's surrounded by a bunch of\nblack dust/dirt.\n\nI hope this is a start...if you find something out, let me know!", "While I have gotten 8-9 years out of this digital receiver, it\nhas been acting VERRY strange of late. I hope that the following\t\nsymptoms may help someone diagnose the error:\n\n- i know that whatever lithium memory backup it had - has long died\nthus if i unplug it - it won't remember the presets\n\n- it has given up listening to the remote. (i tried changing the remote's\nbatteries) when i try a remote function - the receiver registers that it\nreceived it (a green remote light flashes) but the right function\ndoesn't happen - if any function at all. (also strange- when i hit \nthe \"mute\" button, for example, the display panel goes black - yikes-\t\ni've never seen that before ...)\n\n- before all the strangeness started, the system turned itself OFF and ON\nagain - by itself\n\n- sometimes it won't play a radio station, so i have to kinda twist it \n(yes kinda flex the motherboard, chasis) for it to get the radio\ntuning back - the aux in function always works however....\n\nit is inconvenient, but NOT inconvenient enough to pay an \nexpensive repair fee. while, i'm not a hardware guy, i wonder \nif something as simple as a surge supressor will be a quick fix.\nthe strange thing is that these symptoms come and go ...\n\nsomeone told me this unit series has a bad Voltage Amp chip.", "\nFor a VGA card these are the correct files but you can't just copy them\nback and expect it to work. You have to create a new WIN.COM file. Try\nthe command (you will have to worry about what directories each file is in\nsince I don't know your setup):\n\nCOPY /B WIN.CNF+VGALOGO.LGO+VGALOGO.RLE WIN.COM\n\n(I grabbed this from _Supercharging Windows_ by Judd Robbins--great book)\nThis is also how you can put your own logo into the Windows startup screen.\nAn RLE file is just a specially compressed BMP file.\n\nHope this helps", "\n\nWhy not use the PD C library for reading/writing TIFF files? It took me a\ngood 20 minutes to start using them in your own app.\n\nMartin\n\n--\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------", "\nThis was the Pathe you are thinking of, although there were other imitators.\nIt didn't wear the disks any more than conventional acoustic designs, but\nit did have a high noise level due to the continual hiss of escaping air.\nThere are a lot of them still operating, and they are pretty ingenious.", "I would like to thank all those people who responded to my post. I \nwould, however, like to clear some things up. My tape drive is *external*.\nAlso, the connector on the back of it is of the male DB-37 pin variety.\nAs a result, I cannot easily find a cost-effective solution to use the drive.\n\n Any advice will be greatly appreciated. I would prefer email.\n Thanks!", "\nIn case anyone missed it, I'm reposting this and I'm also selling some other\nstuff.\n\n\n\n\nI've sold one, but I still have 2 left for sale. I also realize that $45 is\nalot of money, especially if you don't normally collect cards. So if enough\npeople are interested, I'll break up the set into team sets. I'm not sure\nhow much for each. It would be nice to just sell them for $3 each, but then\nthe people who get the Whalers and Devils (Note, I'm not bagging on these teams\nits just that they don't have alot of good rookie cards in this set) would\nbe subsidizing the people who want Chicago or Pittsburgh. So I'll have to make\nit varialble pricing. But most of them should be about $2 or $3 dollars.\n\n\n\n\n\n\nOk someone asked for this one, but he's from Canada, if he can get me the\nbe the alternate.\n\nAlso I would like to sell 2 Upperdeck Pavel Bure rookie cards (note these\nare not in the UD low #'s set mentioned above). $16 each. They are $15 in\nthe book, but the $1 goes for postage, packaging and insurance.\n\nAnd if there is something you want that you don't see, e-mail me, I may have\nit or may be able to get it for you.", "Subject says it all :)\n\nI'm looking for the jumper settings for an SMS OMTI 8610 AT-bus ESDI \ncontroller card. \n\nThanks in advance,\nRichard", "Hi there,\n\n\tDoes anyone know about any greek database/word processor that\ncan do things like count occurrences of a word, letter et al?\n\n\tI'm posting this up for a friend who studies greek.\n\nThanks,\n\nNico.\n\nP.S.\tCan you email as I seldom look into usenet nowadays.\n--\n+--------------------------------------+-------------------------------------+\n+--------------------------------------+-------------------------------------+", "\nWouldn't this require a hyper-sphere. In 3-space, 4 points over specifies\na sphere as far as I can see. Unless that is you can prove that a point\nexists in 3-space that is equi-distant from the 4 points, and this may not\nnecessarily happen.\n\nCorrect me if I'm wrong (which I quite possibly am!)\n\nsteve\n---\n\n\n", "\nWhy didn't you create 8 grey-level images, and display them for\n1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128... time slices?\n\nThis requires the same total exposure time, and the same precision in\ntiming, but drastically reduces the image-preparation time, no?\n\n\n\n\n\n", "\nHi, any body has experience with the Ultrastor UltraSCSI driver package?\nI also need the phone number for Ultrastor (it's not in the book) and\ni cannot find them in the company listing in Computer Shopper.\nThanks in advance\n tony kwong (908) 699-4130 \n", "Several weeks ago, I described a problem with my Apple High-Resolution\nmonitor and promised to summarize replies received by e-mail. To\nrecapitulate: Occasionally, every two or three hours or so, my monitor\nmomentarily loses sync. The entire raster image bounces down about an\neighth of an inch or so, then rights itself. This usually happens right\nafter I close a large window, highlight a large area, or do something that\nradically alters the image on the screen. Sometimes, though, it happens\nwith no provocation whatsoever.\n\nI have received a bewildering range of replies. At one extreme was\na man, clearly quite knowledgable about monitors, who said that the\nproblem was that the 13\" monitor's power supply simply couldn't always\nkeep up with sudden changes of the raster image; the rapid change from\na largely light screen to a largely dark one overtaxed the monitor's\npower supply. There was no fix available, he said, because nothing was\nreally wrong. (I guess he meant that the flaw was so fundamental that\nit had to be endured.)\n\nThis seemed quite persuasive and I would have been tempted to\nadopt an attitude of stoicism, except for a reply from a 13\" monitor\nowner who discovered that this very problem is documented in the \nApple Service Technical Procedures, Volume 3, under the heading\nJitter Correction. The section describes a fix involving the replacement\nof a capacitor, the adjustment of a potentiometer, or, failing that,\nthe swap of a circuit board.", "On a related note, will the 1304 work on a Centris 650 with internal video\nand give the multiple resolutions?\n\nThis I'm VERY curious about...\n\nThanks!\n", "\nWell, it's not an FTP site, but I got an 800 number for Signetics BBS.\n\nThe Signetics BBS contain some pretty good items for the 8051. I am\ncurrently using the following files which I downloaded from them:\n\n ml-asm51.zip MetaLink's 8051 family macro assembler\n bootstrp.zip Hex file Load-and-Go using 8051 uart\n (allows you to download your program into a RAM\n and then execute from RAM. Works great. Tell\n me if you want more details).\n tutor51.zip TSR for 8051 feature help screens\n \nThey have lots of coding examples, assemblers, and misc. tools.\n\nSignetics BBS numbers are: (800) 451-6644\n (408) 991-2406\n\nHave fun,\n-- \nMont Pierce", "I have a strange piece of equipment to unload. It is a Ether+ SCSI interface.\nApparently, it can be plugged into a SCSI port and from there to an ethernet.\nThat way you save a slot. Nifty. Well, I assume you people know more about it,\nso, judging by the $350 price tag new, I'll ask, say, $75? Anybody interested?\n\n\n", "I have a toggleButton widget (yes widget) and I have a routine\nwhich changes the color of the foreground and background of the\nlabel. Well, the background changes alright, but the label\ntext does not redraw itself.\n\nI am guessing that I have to force it to redraw with an\nXExposeEvent sent to it via XSendEvent. Is this the best\nway to get the text up again? I can't seeem to get\nXSEndEvent to work right.... if this is a good approach,\nmight anyone have an example lying around to show me how to\ndo this? I've RTFM all evening and did not find a decent\nexample.\n\nPS I keep getting Segmentation Faults in XSEndEvent, tho all\nthe values are as expected.\n\nThanks in Advance", "\nTry FTP-ing at\n pub-info.jpl.nasa.gov (128.149.6.2) (simple dir-structure)\n\nand ames.arc.nasa.gov\nat /pub/SPACE/GIF and /pub/SPACE/JPEG\nsorry only 8 bits gifs and jpegs :-( great piccy's though (try the *x.gif\nfiles they're semi-huge gif89a files)\n ^^-watch out gif89a dead ahead!!!\nGood-luck (good software to be found out-there too)\n\nJurriaan\n\nJHWITTEN@CS.RUU.NL ", "\n\nas someone else already mentioned, don't \"carry thru\" the other 23 pins.\n\nplan A, minimal null modem:\n\tSG(7) - SG(7)\n\tTD(2) - RD(3)\n\tRD(3) - TD(2)\nif you're transfering files betwen 2 PCs, this ought to work (unless\nyou have a persnickity comm program).\n\nplan B, null modem with modem control:\n\tSG(7) - SG(7)\n\tTD(2) - RD(3)\n\tRD(3) - TD(2)\n\tDCD(8) - DTR(20)\n\tDTR(20) - DCD(8)\nsome comm software will wait for DCD before transferring anything.\nsuch software will raise DTR to enable the modem to accept a call.\nwith this cable, each side's DTR will drive the other's DCD.\n\nplan C, null modem with hardware flow control:\n\tSG(7) - SG(7)\n\tTD(2) - RD(3)\n\tRD(3) - TD(2)\n\tRTS(4) - CTS(5)\n\tCTS(5) - RTS(4)\nfor high-speed transfers, you want the flow control.\n\nplan D, deluxe null modem (combine B and C):\n\tSG(7) - SG(7)\n\tTD(2) - RD(3)\n\tRD(3) - TD(2)\n\tRTS(4) - CTS(5)\n\tCTS(5) - RTS(4)\n\tDCD(8) - DTR(20)\n\tDTR(20) - DCD(8)\nthis one is ideal. it leaves out DSR and RI (rarely used anymore).\nif you're really paranoid, or you just have an 8th wire to spend,\nyou might add:\n\tFG(1) - FG(1)\n\nthe pin numbers above are (obviously) for 25-pin connectors.\ni don't have a 9-pin pinout handy.\n", "\n\n\n\nYou don't give the precise error message, but I assume that\nthe making of the target fails, because make can't find the rules.\n\nWe've seen this happen with SunOS 5.x make as well and aat this\npoint I'm not sure why it happens. It seems to happen\nwith large Makefiles. The entries near the end get lost.\nSmall changes in the makefile will remedy this problem,\nas it does in your example.\n\nIn the MIT R5 distribution + R5.SunOS5.patch this can happen with\nthe target ``Makefiles'' in one of the doc directories.\n\n\nThis is really weird. Are your *really* sure that you were using GNU make?", "A friend of mine would like to sell his 850 MB SCSI drive for $800 + S/H.\nIt is a full-height drive, and has been used for about one and a half years.\nIf anyone is interested, please e-mail me. Thank you.", "Hi -- sorry if this is a FAQ, but are there any conversion utilities\navailable for Autodesk *.DXF to Amiga *.IFF format? I\nchecked the comp.graphics FAQ and a number of sites, but so far\nno banana. Please e-mail.\n\nThanks.", "\nThe following packages meet your criteria in that they are PD and\npresent an aesthetically pleasant graphical interface to the users.\n\nIf you can use 386bsd:\n\tthere is xview3 (OpenLook)\n\n\tthere is Interviews which looks a little like Motif\n\n\tthere is gopath a very nice C++ toolkit for Athena Widgets and Motif\n\t which is simpler\n and better than interviews and you will enjoy\n technical support from Bull via e-mail\n\t\t It has a nice draw program (it uses motif) which can be used\n\t\t to create graphical front-end to programs.\n\t\t The data format is called streams which you can feed\n\t\t to your programs. I ported gopath on an internet machine\n\t\t which is gone but if you use gcc-2.3.3 with minimal effort\n\t\t gopath can be ported to 386bsd.\n\t\t Last but not least, gopath interfaces to toolkits via a driver\n\t\t module. They have an MS-Windows driver module for instance.\n\n\tAlso, many have written extensions to tk/tcl thus allowing powerful\n\tapplications. For instance, tcl_nm has snmp extensions for tk/tcl.\n\tWith ease, I can now combine snmp network operations with graphs,\n\tphoto-widget, graphical interface, file operations, database \n\toperations,etc.. The author of tcl_nm mail me a simple network \n\tmanagement application which was about 80 lines long - it displayed\n\tvarious environmental parameters from a router. I wrote a simple\n\tstrip chart script for displaying Real-Time ip received\n\tpackets/seconds.\n\n\n\tHope this helps,\n\tAmancio Hasty\n\n\t", "Hi... what alternatives to the Express modem do Duo owners have (if\nthey want to go at least 9600 baud)?\n\nEvery place in town says they are back ordered, and part of the reason\nI want a laptop mac is so I can use it as a remote terminal from\nwherever I am, but I really would hate to have to wait 2 months to get\na modem in or have to settle with 2400 baud.", "\nCheck with Kyocera America, Inc.\n 24 Prime Park Way, Suite 150\n Natick, MA 01760\n\nThey are one of the largest manufacturers of IC packaging in the\nworld.\n\nIt sounds like you would be a good candidate for wafer probing or at\nleast IC probing to test performance. HP, Cascade Microtech and\nTektronix should be able to help you here. One note, testing at high\nfrequency accurately can be an *expensive* business.\n", "When attempting to connect to an SGI Indigo from a PC clone using\na commercial X windows emulation package, the X package hangs in\na pre-login X screen mode. The login box won't display. Using\nthe package in 'telnet' mode, I can logon to the SGI, and run any\nnone graphic type things. On the PC I get an error:\n\"Read error 0 on socket 1\" (raw socket error)\n\nOn the SGI, in xdm-errors:\nI get a termination error when I kill the stalled screen on the PC\n\nOn the SGI, in SYSLOG:\n

is an ASCII decimal digit -- '2', '1', or '0', depending\n on whether you are trying to set the window or icon title,\n or both, and is your desired label string.\n\n Hence, this command will set the window & icon title:\n echo \"\\033]0;YOUR_TITLE_GOES_HERE\\007\\c\" \n\n To set just the icon title:\n echo \"\\033]1;YOUR_TITLE_GOES_HERE\\007\\c\" \n\n To set just the window title:\n echo \"\\033]2;YOUR_TITLE_GOES_HERE\\007\\c\" \n\n Of course, you may have to fiddle with exact syntax,\n depending on how the echo command works on your system\n and what shell you are using (I've shown System-V semantics\n under Bourne or Korn shells).\n\n [Hint for Sun OS users: use /usr/5bin/echo instead of\n /bin/echo or Csh's built-in echo. Otherwise you'll have\n to embed literal ESC and BEL characters in the string\n instead of using convenient octal sequences.]\n\n If you want your titlebar updated continously, say to show\n your current directory, hostname, or somesuch, then you'll\n have to see if you can coerce your shell into spitting out\n the appropriate escape sequences when it prompts for commands.\n Sometimes you can just put the appropriate escape sequence\n in the prompt string itself, sometimes not ...\n", "Hi folks\nThanks to the ones that replied, however, my problem turned out\nto be very simple.\n\nIn my .Xresources I had a space after XTerm*font: 10x20.\nRemoving this and xrdb fixed my problem.\n\nAlso, same symptom, was that some of my users did not have the\nproper capitals for XTerm*font.\n\nThanks again", "\n\n\nYou can include postscript epsi files in xfig (encapsulated postscript\ninfo files). You can't actually edit the postscript file, but you're able\nto draw over the postscript file.\n\nThere a eps to epsi converter: eps2epsi (perl program),\n\nSucces,", "Does anybody know if there are any good 2d-graphics packages\n\tavailable for IBM RS/6000 & AIX ? I'm looking for something\n\tlike DEC's GKS or Hewlett-Packards Starbase, both of which\n\thave reasonably good support for different output devices\n\tlike plotters, terminals, X etc.\n\n\tI have tried also xgks from X11 distribution and IBM's implementation\n\tof Phigs. Both of them work but we require more output devices\n\tthan just X-windows.\n\n\tOur salesman at IBM was not very familiar with graphics and\n\tI am not expecting for any good solutions from there.\n\n\n\t\tAri\n\n---", "Hi all!\n\tI've just recently become seriously hooked on POV, but there are a few\nthing that I want to do that POV won't do (penumbral shadows, dispersion\netc.). I was just wondering: what other shareware/freeware raytracers are\nout there, and what can they do? I've heard of Vivid and Polyray and \nRayshade and so on, but I'd rather no wade through several hundred pages of \nmanual for each trying to work out what their capabilities are. Can anyone\nhelp? A comparison of tracing speed between each program would also be \nmucho useful.\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tMark.\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nMark Mackey | Life is a terminal disease and oxygen is \nmmackey@aqueous.ml.csiro.au | addictive. Are _you_ hooked? ", "Time to clear out some miscellaneous lenses, cameras and photo stuff\nthat's not being used. Some are gems, some are mundane.\n \n \nMinolta AF 50/1.7 lens for Maxxum cameras. New lens, but I guess it'd\nbe best to call it a \"demo\" since I did not get the literature, box or\nwarranty cards. $30.\n \nVivitar 2X converter for Nikon F or AI lenses. Pretty cute \"flip back\"\ntang so it will work with all manual focus Nikon lenses - and bodies.\nIt will even couple (and double) a non-AI lens to an AI body. $15.\n \nPentax 50/1.4 screwmount lens. Well actually it's a Super-Takumar which\nis what they all were back then. Very mint condition. $25. Nice hard\ncase for this lens $5 more..\n \nAlpex 135/2.8 lens. Beautifully made, all metal construction with fine\noptics. Minolta mount. $25. Another hard case that fits this with\nstrap can be added..call it $7 more.\n \nVivitar 283 flash. The one that made Vivitar famous (until the 285\neclipsed it). Tilt head, removable sensor, variable auto exposure.\n$30.\n \nUniversal \"Roamer 63\" folding old \"bellows\" camera with leather case.\nUses 120 or 620 film, 100mm F6.3 lens. Kinda cool articulated shutter\nrelease. Decent shape. $20.\n \nWeston 540 lightmeter. Nothin super fancy, but it works well, and is a\ngood cross check to built in meters. $7 with case and strap.\n \nAnd finally..the \"gems\"\n \nPentax Auto 110 camera with 24mm F2.8 lens. This is the little\n(and I do mean TINY) SLR that Pentax made. Has interchangeable lenses,\nbut try and find the 20-40 zoom, true through the lens viewing with\nsplit image focus, and completely auto exposure. $70.\n \nOlympus 35RC rangefinder camera. A really cute little camera with 42mm\nlens (F2.8) with built in manual or auto exposure, self timer etc. I\nthink this was the predecessor to the XA - and it's nearly all metal.\nI won't mind holding onto this one if it doesn't sell. $60.\n \nOlympus OM-1 with flash shoe, leatherette case, 50/1.4 Zuiko lens, and\nTokina SD (Super Dispersion) 70-210 lens. These are all in very nice to\nmint condition, except for one little ding on the OM body near the film\nadvance lever. Lenses are perfect, and the Tokina is a very compact,\nand sharp lens. $225 for the set.\n \n \nThat'll do to clean out some of the stuff. Feel free to offer on this\nstuff, although the cheaper stuff is priced to cover my hassle in\nshipping it..\n \nFor more details call or email.\n ", "\n\n\nApple just released the Quicktime volume of the new Inside Macintosh series.\nAny bookstore with reasonable technical stock should have it.", "\nI think one (not ideal) solution is to use the\ntracing utility (can't remember the name, sorry!)\nincluded in the Corel Draw s/w pack. It can convert\nbitmaps to Corel art format. These can then be\nimported into a drawing rather than the bitmap.\nResult - the file is completely in Corel format and\ncan be SCODAL'ed no problem!\n\nBUT the slight problem with this, which makes the\nsolution less than idea, is that the trace utility\nspits out many more points than are necessary to\ndefine the shapes being traced. Straight lines and\ncurves are both traced as many short segments.\n\nSo... the SCODAL taking *much* longer to\nimage.\n\nThe obvious solution is time-consuming - stripping\nout the extra points by hand using Corel.\n\nOUCH!\nI've done it a few times :-]\n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nAs I say, if you don't mind the problems, go via the route...\nBITMAP -> COREL (VIA TRACE) ->\nHAND TRIMMING (USING COREL)!!! ->\nCOMBINE WITH MAIN COREL PIC (VIA IMPORT) -> SCODAL", "\n\nI don't believe IRQ5 is the problem. I tried a mouse on COM3, IRQ4 (the\nusual place) and it still did not like it. Simply, Windows seems to only\nsupport mice on COM1 or COM2. The funny part is, though, that\nMicrosoft's own mouse driver (8.xx) was quite happy with my mouse\nsitting on COM3. Why can't Windows use the mouse driver, or at least\nsupport COM3? :-)\n\n\nI've tried this too. Actually, I wanted to be able to use my second\nmodem (COM3/IRQ5) from Windows. It still will not talk to that modem. I\ncreated two profiles, AMSTRAD (for my Amstrad modem on COM1/IRQ4) and\nMAESTRO (for my Maestro on COM3/IRQ5). It will not talk to the Maestro\nat all.\n\n\nNor here. (Windows 3.0).\n\n\nI've seen nothing like that. I've experimented with Logitech's mouse\ndriver too, with no sucess.\n\n\nIf you have a SoundBlaster Pro, it should support IRQ10 as well.\nFinally, a board that supports IRQs >9. The only one I have (except my\nIDE controller).\n\nhamish\n", "\nMost commercial switchers do NOT use magnetics for their energy storage;\nthat's handled by the big caps on the primary side, those which in a \nlinearly-regulated power supply would be considered the \"filter\" caps,\ncoming right after the bridge. The transformer is just that - a \ntransformer. It's there primarily to step the voltage up or down. (Although\nthe inductance seen by the switch transistor on the primary side is NOT\nnegligible, as anyone who's zapped said transistor from either failing to\nget one with a high enough breakdown voltage or neglecting to include a\n\"snubber\" diode across it would tell you. Actually, many transistors intended\nfor switcher use today have the diode built in.)\n\nThe basic switched-mode power supply operates something like this (in\na somewhat simplified manner): The AC line is rectified to produce a\nhigh voltage, more-or-less unregulated DC rail. The energy storage (or\n\"filter\") caps appear across this rail, as does the switching transistor.\nThe transistor chops the current into the primary side of the transformer,\nresulting in stepped-up or stepped-down pulses out the secondary, which \nare then rectified and filtered. At least one of the transformer's outputs\nis sampled and fed back to the control circuit for the switching transistor,\nwhich acts in a \"pulse-width modulation\" (PWM) fashion to control (by varying\nthe pulse width) the amount of energy being dumped into the primary, and\ntherefore the voltage coming out at the secondary. The remaining outputs\nmay be allowed to simply run at whatever value they will, more-or-less\ntracking the regulated output, or they may have some additional linear\nregulation added. You may also note that the feedback between the \nregulated output and the PWM control (which is most typically an IC)\nis not done via a direct electrical connection; this is due to various\nsafety standards which require primary and secondary circuits to be\nelectrically isolated. Often, the feedback path involves an optoisolator\nto meet this requirement.\n\nWhile the transformer isn't the primary energy-storage device in these\ndesigns, this does not mean that the energy stored in the transformer can\nbe ignored; besides the inductive \"kick\" giving the switch transistor a\nbad time (as noted above), you also need to worry about getting all the\nenergy that went *in* to the transformer back *out* again, one way or another.\nIn some designs, this happens more or less automatically - but in others,\nyou need to take special care to ensure that the transformer core doesn't\nsaturate, which again would have disastrous results (best left to the \nimagination! :-)).\n\nI'm NOT by any stretch of the imagination a power-supply designer; \nhopefully, a real one will come along soon and clean up any gross errors\nin the above.\n", "\nWow! A 68070! I'd be very interested to get my hands on one of these,\nespecially considering the fact that Motorola has not yet released the\n68060, which is supposedly the next in the 680x0 lineup. 8-D", "Hello,\n\ndoes anyone know about allergic reactions caused by the developer/toner\nof laser printers? What chemical stuff is involved?\n\nThanks in advance!\n\nReinhard", "I'm looking for a Singer Featherweight 221 sewing machine (old, black \nsewing machine in black case).\n\nPlease contact:", "The Toshiba has a 200ms access time, the NEC has a 280ms access\ntime, right around the Sony/Apple. Access time is, of course,\nsomewhat important, but not as vital in the case of CDs as data\ntransfer rate.\n\nAll the drives are double-speed drives with maximum data transfer\nrates of 300K/second. Any is a good choice. Apple's is very cheap\nwhen included with new Macs and I agree with Christian's comment\nabout drivers.\n\nPlus, Apple's is bootable on the Centris and Quadra 800. A very nice\nfeature if you need to install System software. I don't know if the\nNEC or Toshiba are bootable on those machines.", "Hello,\n\nI'm trying to get X11R5 running on my PC and ran into the \nfollowing error message when trying to start the Xserver.\n\n------\nSetting TCP SO_DONTLINGER: Option not supported by protocol\n\nX386 Version 1.2 / X Windows System\n(protocol Version 11, revision 0, vendor release 5000)\n\nFatal server error\nno screens found\ngiving up\n\nxinit: software cased connection abort (errno 130): unable to connect\n to X xserver.\n\n------\n\n\ndoes anyone know what this error means ?\nhas anyone experienced this problem ?\n\nhelp will be much appreciated\n\nthanks in advance.\n\n\nplease send replies to ", "Is there a comp.graphics FAQ and if so, where?\n", "\nTo incrementally update the contents of windows, I use the following trick:\n\n\t1. Set the window background to None,\n\t2. Call XClearArea(display, window, 0, 0, 0, 0, True),\n\t3. Restore the window background to its correct value.\n\nThe call to XClearArea does not repaint the window background, but still\ngenerates exposure events for visible parts of the window.\n\nIn order to let my application know that these expose events must be handled\nincrementally (something is already displayed on the screen and may need to\nbe erased), I encapsulate the 3 operations with 2 self addressed client\nmessages, which preserve asynchronicity between the client and the server.\n\nXGrabServer(display)\nclient message (start-incremental)\n \tbackground None\n\tXClearArea\n\tRestore background \nclient message (end-incremental)\nXUngrabServer(display)\n\nThe GrabServer prevents other events to be inserted by the server in the\ncritical section.\n", ": As the subject says - Can I use a 4052 for digital signals? I don't see\n: why it couldn't handle digital signals, but I could be wrong. Anyone have\n: any advice? Thanks.\n\nThe switches have a non-negligable on resistance (up to 1k ohm when\npowered by 5 volts) and a maximum current and a Maximum Static\nVoltage Across Switch. Not a good bet for TTL. Should work for\nCMOS, but slow things down a bit. There are 74HC versions that\nhave better specs. but lower max voltage.", "I'm doing some work on the Mac IIsi and need some information on the CPU.\nI have the Motorola MC68030UM/AD Rev. 1, but I fear it is out of date as it\ndoes not have the characteristics for the CPU package type used in the IIsi.\n\nWhat I need is the Theta (JC) Thermal Characteristic (the Junction to Case\nthermal resistance) for the _PLASTIC_ FE style package.\n\nIf you have this info, I would appreciate your sending it by email as postings\nsuffer a few days delay here.\n\nIf you are keen on this stuff, I am also interested in a more accurate value\nfor the typical power dissipation. I'm assuming 2.25 Watts (using the 2.6 W\nmaximum at 0 C decreased the way the Pd drops in the 6801x as Ta increases).\nIf your manual has a chart of power dissipation, I'd like to know what it\nreads at 25 C and 40 C.\n\nThanks for reading!", "\nFrom the FAQ:\n\nSubject: 96)! What is this link problem with libXmu on SunOS 4.1.[23]?\n\n In SunOS 4.1.2 Sun fixed a shared-library bug in ld which conflicts\nwith the way X builds the shared Xmu library, causing these symbols, notably,\nto be undefined when building some X11 clients:\n _get_wmShellWidgetClass\n _get_applicationShellWidgetClass\nCompiling \"-Bstatic -lXmu -Bdynamic\" appears to work.\n\nTo solve the problem if you are using OpenWindows 3.0 (X11R4-based Xt), please\ncontact your local Sun office and request the following patches:\n\nPatch i.d. Description\n100512-02 4.1.x OpenWindows 3.0 libXt Jumbo patch\n100573-03 4.1.x OpenWindows 3.0 undefined symbols when using\n shared libXmu\n\n[Greg Earle, earle@Sun.COM; 7/92]\n\nA source patch for use with the MIT X11R4 libraries was developed by Conrad\nKimball (cek@sdc.boeing.com); it retrofits into R4 some fixes made in R5 to\nget around this problem. The patch is on export in [1/93]\n contrib/X11R4_sunos4.1.2_patch_version3.Z\n", " \n If you have the GRASP animation system, then yes, it's quite easy.\nYou simply use GLIB to extract the image (each \"frame\" in a .GL is\nactually a complete .PCX or .CLP file), then use one of MANY available\nutilities to convert it. If you don't have the GRASP package, I'm afraid\nI can't help you. Sorry.\n By the way, before you ask, GRASP (GRaphics Animation System for\nProfessionals) is a commercial product that sells for just over US$300\nfrom most mail-order companies I've seen. And no, I don't have it. :)\n \n \n Corey Webb\n ", "\nAll I know is that the Megadrives worked perfectly on both my\nMac Plus and my Powerbook 140. It was for this reason I assumed\nthe problem had something to do with the Quadra. Even with the\nQuadra, they mostly worked OK. The problem occurred when I ejected\na cartridge from a drive: it would start popping up dialog boxes\nsaying \"This cartridge must be formatted with Jasmine Driveware\"\neven though there was no cartridge in the drive.", "\nAm I correct in assuming that the science instruments buffer their acquired\ndata in onboard RAM, which is then downloaded upon receipt of the MRO command?", ": \n: \n: I think the ink now used in the DeskJet family is water-fast. \n: \n: I've had pictures ruined by a few drops of rain. These were colour pictures\n: from a DeskJet 500C. Mind you, it could have been acid rain:-)\n\nThe black ink is waterfast, but the color isn't\n\n: \n: I use a BJ10ex. Ink dries fast, but it really doesn't like getting wet.\n: \n: --\n: /-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\\\n: |Justin Whitton at ma90jjw%hermes@uk.mod.relay |Where no man has gone before..|\n: |after August mail ma90jjw@brunel.ac.uk. \\------------------------------|\n: |Disclaimer: My opinions count for nothing, except when the office is empty. |\n: |I'm a student => intelligence = 0. |\n: \\-----------------------------------------------------------------------------/", "\nNever claimed it is a bug.\n\n\n\nNever claimed it is a bug.\n\n\n\nI guess I edited my note on this away from the article I posted to\nmany newsgroups.\n\nI wrote something about making color modifications quickly\nwith 8bit quantized images and only at the saving the image to file\nprocess we have to make the modifications to the 24bit image.\nThis makes sense, because the main use of XV is only viewing images.\n\nDoing many changes to image, we should keep all modifications\nin a buffer; and then before making the operations to 24bit image,\nwe should simplify the operation list for unnecessary operations.\n\n\n\nNever claimed it is a bug.\nI tried kept sure I don't claim that JPEG is noting else than\na compression algorithm, because I know what the JPEG is.\n(You propably misunderstood what I wrote as you have done in many\nplaces so far.)\n\nYou also missed what is (were) wrong with XV. However, I did wrote it.\n", "\nxdtm is working looking at, as is ftptool. There really isn't anything of\nany quality that I've seen though, and I'm seriously considering writing one\non my own.\n\n-- \nmike@hopper.acs.virginia.edu ", "We have a Sun 3/80 and we have just acquired a cg8 frame buffer card.\n\nThe cg8 is supposed to support both a 24-bit color visual and a monochrome visual.\nThe default visual for the xnews server is the monochrome, and we are unable to change it to\nthe 24-bit visual. We have tried using XGetVisualInfo to get a visual of depth 24, but had no\nsuccess. xdpyinfo gives no information about a 24-bit deep visual, only monochrome. \n\nThere are two possible solutions:\n\tIf someone has patches for X11R5 Xsun server, could they forward them to us?\n\n\tOtherwise, could someone instruct us how to access the 24-bit color in openwindows?", "Hi,\n\nI have a 486/66MHz SYS based PC with 8M RAM and a problem.\n\nWhat is the best way to configure high memory with QEMM/386MAX ??\nI have a SPEEDSTAR 24X video card and use Hyperdisk disk cache\nsoftware. The problem is running Windows 3.1 in Enhanced mode and\nhaving any high memory to load stuff high?\n\nNote :\nI tried, as recommended to exclude the region A000-C7FF but Windows\ninsists on starting in Standard mode.\n\nAny suggestions?", "Brand NEW 1.2GB Seagate SCSI hard drive\n15ms access time, Full Height 5-1/4\" size\nOnly $1100 +s/h.", "Any clue? Some times when I enter Win 3.1 ProgMan says that I need to rebuild\na group! It's quite annoying!\n\n", "I've been running Dos 6 for about a month. I was generally impressed with\nthe improvements: the multiple boot configurations were great, the\nnew commands were nice, and DoubleSpace worked fine (twice as slow for\nlarge data transfers, twice as fast for small with SmartDrv).\n\nUntil now.\n\nThis morning at 4 am while I was working on my research paper, I had to\nreboot a hung Dos program (that did no disk i/o) from within Windows 3.1.\nWhen my machine finished rebooting, I found my windows directory and about two\nthirds of my other directories were irreversibly corrupted.\n\nI cannot afford problems like this. I'm returning to Dos 5.\n\nmark", "I read an article about the benefits of a VLB motherboard. It said that a \ntrue VLB board supports bus mastering, otherwise it is just as good as an ISA\nmotherboard.\n\nDoesn't all VLB motherboard support bus mastering? I just bought a 486-33 VLB\nand the tech manual does not explicitly state the words \"local bus mastering\"\nbut it said it \"supports bus master and slave modes\". Are these terms\nsynonymous?\n\nThanks.", "\n\nPerhaps you should try nic.funet.fi instead of funet.fi ??!?!?\nnic.funet.fi is THE biggest (?) ftp site from Europe, but\nthe stuff available there should (?) also be available at the other site\nof the \"big pool\".", "Hi,\n\nI'm looking for RGB (cube) --> HLS (double hexcone) --> HSV (cylinder) \nconversion routines. I have RGB <--> HSV, but miss the HLS <--> RGB/HSV.\n\nPLEASE E-MAIL ME DIRECTLY, AS I DO NOT GET THIS NEWSGROUP AT MY SITE\n--------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nAny and all help wil be greatly appreciated.\nGert.\n\n--", "I am asked to design a video-aid system for teacher to show their students\nhow to work their way round in Windows.\n\nI have seen people using video projector, TV set and large size monitor as\nthrir display for presentations. I am told that there are three ways to\nconnect to a video projector: composite, Y/C & RGB.\n\nCan anyone explain to me the different between the three and the likely cost\nfor each of them?\n\nI would also like to know if there are TELNET or KERMIT for Windows.\n\nPlease reply to me via E-amil as well as bulletin. My internet account is\nu129008@sparc20.ncu.edu.tw", "Could anyone tell me the format of GIF files. I would like to know how I \ncould determine the size of the picture. Also, are gif files in compressed\nformat? How many bits store pixel color information? \n\n(This is probally a simple question, but I couldn't find it in the FAQ.)\n\nemail responses would be perferred\n", "Can anyone give me information or lead me to electronic information (not\nbooks; I'm too poor...) regarding programming the standard graphics modes?\n320x200x4 and 640x200x2 are easy enough, but I'm not so sure about the\nrest. Something about planes or something, and writing to ports and the\nlike, but I don't know the numbers or anything -- for the 16 color modes, I\nthink. If I'm wrong, let me know. Also, 320x200x256 is just one byte/pixel;\nthat's easy enough, but are there any other ways to write to the screen,\nperhaps bytes at a time, or something like that?\n\nOf course, I'd appreciate any information about any mode.... which reminds\nme of another question -- do the SuperVGA modes work the same, generally,\nas the normal 16 and 256 color modes, or is not only the mode numbers\nfor various cards different, but the methods for writing to the screen\ndifferent as well?\n\nThanks for any help you can give me... I'm developing a screen class for\nC++ and find myself searching for information. Oh, I do have Ralf Brown's\nInterrupt List, which has given me tons of invaluable information already.\nIt just doesn't go into the screen programming details (except for the\nread/write pixel BIOS calls...\n\nThanks again.\n", "Hi Netters,\n\nI'm building a CAD package and need a 3D graphics library that can handle\nsome rudimentry tasks, such as hidden line removal, shading, animation, etc.\n\nCan you please offer some recommendations?\n\nI'll also need contact info (name, address, email...) if you can find it.\n\nThanks\n\n(Please Post Your Responses, in case others have same need)", "My 3.5\" floppy drive stopped recognizing low density (720K) floppies.\n\nThe controller and drive works fine in another system. I was told it\ncould be the DMA chip. The system is a 386DX-25 using Chips & Technology\nchip set. I'm open to all suggestions. Please send your replies to:\n\n\t\tken@jazz.concert.net", "Time for some spring cleaning, so the following items are up\nfor sale:\n\nRoland MT-32 Multi-Timbre Sound module. \n LA synthesis, upto 32 simultaneous voices, 128 preset timbres,\n 20-char backlit LCD display, MIDI in/out/thru, reference card,\n stereo output, etc\n\n Great for games that support it (music on the MT32 is far\n superior to any sound card), experimenting with MIDI, or\n for adding additional sounds to your MIDI setup.\n\n $235 + shipping\n\nCanon RC-250 Xapshot still video camera system.\n Includes: camera, carrying pouch, battery pack, battery charger,\n ac adapter, video cables, two 2.5\" floppies (each disk holds\n 50 pictures for 100 pics total), manuals, etc\n\n Video output is standard NTSC composite and can be sent to any\n NTSC device (e.g. to a television for direct viewing of your\n pictures, to a VCR to record a slideshow, to a computer video\n digitizer to save/manipulate the pictures on a computer system)\n\n $295 + shipping\n\nAmbico Video Enhancer/Audio Mixer\n Three-line stereo audio mixer with microphone input and master\n volume slider w/video enhancer to boost & sharpen video images\n when dubbing from VCR->VCR, camcorder->VCR, etc\n\n $38 + shipping\n\n2400 baud PC internal modem\n\n $25 + shipping\n\nQuantum 105MB 3.5\" internal ProDrive hard disk\n This unit has recently turned unreliable and erratic in usage.\n Could be a simple easily fixed problem or a major problem,\n but at any rate I don't have the time to find out where the\n problem lies. If you want to take a risk on it, you can have\n it for $45 + shipping.\n\nIf interested in any of the above items, please Email me.", "I never thought I'd contribute to a Gateway thread, either pro or con, but\nmy spleen could use a little venting. The scenario:\n\n\t1 - Ordered a DX2/50 w/ Ultrastor 34F Local Bus HD controller\n\t2 - Receive system 10 days after ordering (Happy)\n\t3 - Discover Ultrastor 14F ISA HD Controller inside (unhappy)\n\t4 - Call Gateway, receive the correct controller in 5 days \n\t\t(getting happier)\n\t5 - New controller doesn't work (unhappy again)\n\t6 - Call Gateway again, get another controller in 5 more days\n\t\t\t(cooling off, the end is in sight)\n\t7 - This controller doesn't work either, motherboard is bad\n\t\t(VERY unhappy)\n\nGateway's solution: They will order me a new motherboard (5 more days)\n\tand have on-site service install it for me.\nBUT, I have to take a day off of work because the service people\nonly work 9-5 M-f. I say, no way I've already blown about 20 hours\nwith this, about 10 of them on hold and I don't have the time or $$\nto take a day off work. Also, my 30 day return period is almost over and\nI've only been able to use the thin for about 10 minutes. So, the whole \nthing is going back. \n I was extremely upset when I began this post because the support rep told me\nthat I would have to pay shipping not only for the returned system, but also\nthe two hard drive controllers they had sent me. Fortunately, I just spoke\nto customer service and they are going to have UPS come and pick everything\nup gratis. The only downside is that now I have to order another computer.\n\nI would really like to try Gateway again, I'm just very turned off by the\nprospect of having to try and get through to Customer Service or Tech Support\nagain... I think their products are great for the most part, but I'm\nbeginning to wonder if the savings are worth the potential aggravation.\nAre other mail order companies as difficult to contact? I know Gateway is\nbooming, and for good reason, but I don't know if I can take it again.\nOh well, I feel better now...\n", "\n\n\tThis is not necessary. All you have to do is modify the config.sys\non d:\\ { or the real boot up partition/disk }. Then, you can manually\ncopy it to c:\\ or allow stacker to do it on boot up. \n\n\tLikewise with the autoexec.bat.\n\n\n---\n\nPrivate note to Jennifer Fakult.\n\n \"This post may contain one or more of the following:\n sarcasm, cycnicism, irony, or humor. Please be aware \n of this possibility and do not allow yourself to be \n confused and/or thrown for a loop. If in doubt, assume\n all of the above.", "Fiberglass boards are available in several colors. Sitting right\nhere, I have unetched board stock that is white, blue, green and\nyellow respectively. I've also seen black boards.\n\nSolder mask is available in a variety of colors too. Depending on\nthe supplier, the color helps indentify the material.\n\nDon't forget conformal coating.\n\nI don't think I've seen phenolic impregnated paper boards in\nanything other than the familar brown, but it would not be\ndifficult to add a dye to change the color.\n", "hi,\n just a quick question reguarding pc tape backup. I own a 386 dos box\nand have an Archive VP402 interface card connected to a QIC-02 tape\ndrive. Now the simple question is, does anybody in netland know were I\ncan get some software for msdos (ver 5.0) to run this setup, freeware\nor shareware preferred .\n\nThanks in advance,\n Darryl", "Hi,\n\tI am looking for some help in choosing a package\nfor a high-speed silicon ADC (100Mhz) currently being \nfabricated. This is a PhD research project and I have to test\nthe chip at speed on a PCB. I expect to have roughly 100\npackaged circuits and will do DC, low-speed and high-speed\ntesting using 3 different set-ups for the test chip.\n \t\n\tI know for sure that a DIP will not work\n(the long lead lines have too high an inductance).\nGetting a custom-made package is too expensive, so\nI am trying to choose between a flatpak and a\nleadless chip carrier. The flatpack would be hard\nto test since it has to be soldered on to the test\nsetup and I would spend loads of time soldering \nas I kept changing the test chip. The leadless chip\ncarrier sockets also have long lead lines and may\nnot work at high speeds.\n \n\tDoes anyone out there have experience/knowledge\nof this field ? I would greatly appreciate help! Any ideas/\nnames of companies manufacturing holders/sockets/packages\nwould help. \n \nP.S. The multi-layer fancy GaAs packages seem like a bit\nof overkill(?)", "does anybody have any info on this monitor or the manufacturers?\n\nall help through e-mail please.", "\nMINE has a 16450 sodered right on the card. Why would you need the 16550\nanyway? From what I've heard, when you're multitasking, its FIFO buffer keeps\nyou from loosing data. Is this right?", "<\n<\n<>> I wonder if anybody know of a X-window-based postscript file\n<>> viewer that runs under SunOS (prefered), HPUX, or IBM AIX.\n<\n<>If you are running Sun OpenWindows, you can use \"pageview\". This is an\n<>X Window PostScript previewer like \"ghostview\", but displays much nicer\n<\n\n\n\nRunning MS-DOS or a derivative OS, obviously. Please take note that the\nfollowing is not what exactly happens, but a slightly simplified\nexplanation.\n\nTechnically, the IRQ line is only a means for the device (printer\nadapter, SoundBlaster, modem, hard disk, ...) to signal the CPU that\n\"Something's happening here, please take note.\" How the CPU is\nprogrammed to handle this signal is usually up to the operating system.\nIn MS-DOS, the \"interrupt vector\" is used to store the address of the\nfunction that handles each interrupt.\n\nNow, basic DOS doesn't care whether the printer reports that it's ready\nto print some more stuff or not - it simply ignores the interrupt. When\nDOS prints, it looks at the LPT buffer. If there's a character there,\nwait a while and check again. If there's not, copy a new character to\nthe LPT port. Since the IRQ 7 is ignored as a printer interrupt, it's\nfree for use for any other adapters - in this case, the SB. \n\nWith any multitasking or otherwise advanced OS, this kind of printing\napproach just doesn't work (or more precisely, it wastes a lot of CPU\ncycles.) Hence, you can't \"share\" the IRQ 7 with LPT1 and SB if you're\nrunning Unix or OS/2 or whatnot.\n\nAnother issue with the SB is that only the digitized sound uses\ninterrupts. When the SB plays plain music, the CPU simply tells it what\nto play until told otherwise. With digitized sound the interrupt is\nrequired to notify the CPU when the output ends and new data is\nneeded.\n\nYou can, however, hook two (or more) COM ports to one interrupt, but use\nthem only one at a time. This is because the interrupt handling routine\nis same for both ports, and it can see from which port the data came\nfrom. This, of course, applies for some other devices (like LPT) as well.\n\nRemember, this was greatly simplified in parts, but I think gives the\ngeneral picture correctly enough.\n\nCheers,\n", "Since the net has convinced me not to try FastMicro (if they\nwere still answering their phones) does anybody have any\nopinions on Micron Computer, Inc? Their 486VL Magnum got an\nEditors Choice in the Jan 26th roundup of 486/66s.\n\nEmail and I'll sumarize.", "Regarding the horror stories about DOS6/DOUBLEDISK and STACKER 2.?\nkilling hard drives:", "in article <735604750.28979.0@unix5.andrew.cmu.edu>, Mark Yeck\n\n--------->\n\nHey, can someone clue me in on these and other weird types of amplifiers? Just\na brief intro to the concepts behind these would be cool. I have the clues \non type A, B, and AB already and stuff, but these other ones are mentioned \noccasionally and I dont know what they do. I think type D is like a PWM scheme\nor something. Thanx in advanced.\n\n---------->\nThe whole point to these weird amplifier types is improved efficiency.\n\nClass D amps *are* PWM (pulse width modulation) amps which work very much like\nswitching power supplies. I think I've seen these things called \"class S\"\nbefore as well. They're capable of very high efficiencies, and would be suitable\nfor very high power. I've yet to see anything like this used in an audiophile\namp, though. I've been trying to design a three-kilowatter for the last year\n(to be used as an inverter for an UPS), but have been having serious problems\nwith layout parasitics (10 IRF 450's in parallel... any help with a do-able\nisolated drive ckt would be appreciated :) ) \n\nI'm not absolutely positive about this, but I beleive a 'class G' amp is one that\noperates off a variable- or switched power supply rail voltage. The Carver\namps do something like this. They use some sort of phase-control circuit \n(I do not fully understand its operation) to reduce the transformer size, and\nI beleive that is patented. I had an M400 apart (trying to fix) and found that\nit had three rail voltages that it switched between. I ran a simulation on\nPSPICE and found that the topology would greatly reduce power dissipation (heat)\nunder large-signal conditions, or when driving reactive loads (which draw high\ncurrent at the zero-voltage crossings). ", "\nI just put one in my machine last week. I have an AST 486/66. I was\ngetting ~10million winmarks with my Diamond SS24, and the #9 board is\ndoing ~20million winmarks. From my brief experiences with it, i'm very\nsatisfied. BTW, this is with Win 3.1.", "I had a similar problem - try changing the netmask to 0.0.0.0 or 255.255.254.0", "[... stuff deleted]\n[more stuff deleted...]\n\nHow do you calculate that figure? I'd assume even in personal computers\nthe board designers would use bank switching to (optimistically) \nquadruple the access speed or am I missing something here?\n\nHSK", "Th following cd's are for sale. Each cd cost 10$ except otherwise indicated\n which includes shipping and handling.\n\n\nAchtung baby\t\t\t\tU2 *\nJoshua tree\t\t\t\tU2 **\nThe immaculate collection Madonna ** $12\nLove hurts Cher *\nGarth brooks Garth brooks *\nRed hot ..chilli peppers.. **\nOOOOOHHHHH\t\t\t\tTLC **\nLight and shadows\t\t\twilson **\n\n\n\n* Used only once.\n** never used, most of them are still in shrink wraps\n\nPlease email to", "Jasen Mabus\nRPI student\n\n\tI am looking for a hman brain in any CAD (.dxf,.cad,.iges,.cgm,etc.) or picture (.gif,.jpg,.ras,etc.) format for an animation demonstration. If any has or knows of a location please reply by e-mail to mabusj@rpi.edu.", "\nOther alternatives include output of vmstat, iostat, pstat and friends\nwith various flags, or even better crash. \n\ne.g. on an RS/6000 (AIX 3.2) you can get lots of relatively\nunpredicatble data out of crash. (the output from the following script \nusually gives about 600k of goo on a moderately busy system.)\n\n#!/bin/sh\ncrash <---------PCS(poor college student)", "According to my TI databook, the pinouts for the TIL311 display are as\nfollows:\n \n Pin 1 - LED supply voltage\n Pin 2 - Latch data input B\n Pin 3 - Latch data input A\n Pin 4 - Left decimal point cathode\n Pin 5 - Latch strobe input\n Pin 6 - Omitted\n Pin 7 - Common ground\n Pin 8 - Blanking input\n Pin 9 - Omitted \n Pin 10 - Right decimal point cathode\n Pin 11 - Omitted\n Pin 12 - Latch data input D\n Pin 13 - Latch data input C\n Pin 14 - Logic supply voltage, Vcc\n \nThe logic supply voltage is 5V @ 60-90mA. The LED supply is also 5V, but\nit need not be particularly well regulated. The LED drivers on the chip\nuse a constant current source, so LED intensity is not affected by the\nsupply voltage.\n \n\n-- ", "I have a few things to sell. All items are in great condition. All\nprices include shipping. If you have any questions contact me by\nE-Mail or call me at (814)234-4439.\n\nDarryl\n\n\nDJ Equipment\n=======================================================================\n- Mixer Case (with pop-up rails) $60\n- (2) Patch Cords (3 meters, Gold Tips) $15\n\n\nRecords\n=======================================================================\nCasualties Of War (12 inch single) Eric B. & Rakim $2\nGet Some (12 inch single) EYC & Boo-Ya Tribe $2\nBlack's Magic Salt & Pepa $2\nHeart Break New Edition $2\nThe Right Stuff Vanessa Williams $2\n\n\nMisc\n=======================================================================\nToshiba FT6000 Cordless Phone $50 \n", "Hi All,\n\n I have heard that somewhere there exist programmable keyboards, eg. one\ncan program displays on the keys to show some specific characters, et.c.\n Does it mean that there is some way of transmitting some \"non-trivial\" data\nto the KB (as opposed to standard NumLock/... On-Off, typeamatic specs.) from\ninside the PC software? I have not found any corresponding reference in the\nspecs for the 8042 PC-KB interface. Anyone have any ideas? (Except that they\nmay encode data by the sequences of the standard commands mentioned above,\nwhich wouldn't look too neat, besides, what would one do from an XT?)\n\n Great thanks in advance,", "Hi folks,\n\nI borrowed a VHS tape from a friend and it has a warning in the begining saying\nthat attempts to copy the tape will result in destroying the copy and the\noriginal. I found this unbelievable as playing and recording are two different\nprocesses. However, I've never seen this tape being sold anywhere so I don't \nwant to take the chance even it's small.\n\nAnyone has experience in this kind of self-destructing video tapes?\n\nThanks in advance.\n", "How does the 16 bit color of HDTV work ? It can not be 5 bit Red Green and\nBlue like on the Macintosh. This gives only 64 gray levels.\n\nApple also has developed a point-point network that is around 200MB (not\nsure if it is bits or bytes) per sec.", "\n\nI also returned PB memory last summer for credit, and the sales person warned\nme not to use US mail. I did (although I did insure the shipment), and \napparently Techworks got it.\n\nMy minor grip with techworks is that they have different price lists for\ndifferent people. I ordered DUO memory, thinking I got their \"best\" price\nbecause of my employeer. I subsequently found out that Apple was offering\ndevelopers memory for less than techworks charged, called up to complain,\nand was told I should have said I was an apple developer and they credited\nmy card for about 16% of the purchase price. I like techworks quality\nand installation instructions (and they include powerbook tools), but \nfor out-of-CA purchases (no sales tax) chip merchant seems to be a bit less.\n\n ", "\n\n\n I had a similar problem with my StyleWriter I (the original!).\nHave you tried cleaning the print heads? With the SWII driver, it's\nand option in the Print dialog box. Sometimes I had to do it several\ntimes to get the crud out. Yes it wastes ink, but it beats those\nwhite annoying lines.\n Another idea is to print a couple of pages with just a big\nblack box. It can help to get the ink flowing.\n Good luck!\n\n Beth Corbo", "I was wondering if anyone out there in net-land knew of a SIMPLE\nway to make a 4-band equalizer (single channel). I need it to accept\nLINE inputs (tape deck, CD player, etc.) and output to the same! So\ninput impedance should equal output impedance. Also, since I am driving\na line, I would need 1 volt p-p output. Final requirement is that I\ncan either:\n\t 1. Control it digitally\n\t\t\tOR\n\t 2. Control it easily, or with few resistors", "EPS _IS_ plain postscript. It is only wrapped by some comments and stripped\nof any dubious commands for compatibility. You can simply do\n\n%!\n\nsave gsave\n/showpage {} def\n\n% Include eps file here\n\ngrestore restore\n\nshowpage\n\n% end of file\n\nand this way show it on it's natural page position and size.\n\nPrograms may use the %%BoundingBox: comment in the EPS file to do\narbitrary scale, rotate and translate to include it in more complicated\nways than above.\n", "Hi Netters.\n\nFor my home computer I have a humble MacLC with a 12\" color monitor.\n\nThe majority of my work is writing, therefore I would love to have\na b&w portrait monotor conected to the LC. However, I sometimes do need\nthe color monitor.\n\nMy question is this;\n\nIs there a good (Cheap) way to hook up two monitors to my LC\nand is there anyone out there that has done this, how do you like it?\n\nPlease respond here or to me directly.\n\nThanks for your time, hope to talk to anyone soon!\n\njerry salem", "I have just upgraded from a Trident TVGA9000 to an ATI Graphics Ultra (the\nold mach8 chip). I am quite pleased with the performance so far, but have\none problem. When using windows in 800x600, I have noticed that the \ntile bars and scroll bars are significantly larger than they were when I\nwas using the Trident card. Is there a setting in my .ini files that I can\nchange to make these smaller ? I could not find the FAQ for this list...\n\n\t\t--Mike", "I have a new scope and I thought I'd save a few bucks by\nbuying one with a function generator built in. After having it awhile\nI noticed two things about the function generator. For one, there\nseems to be a bias even when the 'pull-offset' is pushed in. That is,\nI have to pull that know and adjust it to get a signal sans some\nrandom 50mV bias.\n\tThe other _really_ annoying thing is that the damn output\nwon't go below about 1V p-p. I am a student ( you may have guessed\nfrom my previous posts ), and I often have to measure the input\nimpedances of various circuits I build.Many of the circuits have\nmaximum input signals of way less than 500mV amplitude and most have\ninput impedances in the 10's of Kohm range. The thing is, in order to\nuse my function generator I have to divide the voltage to some thing\nreasonable. Then, of course, to measurethe input impedance of my\ncircuit I am going to have to throw in another resistor in series.\nWith the 50ohm output of the generator I could just ignore it, but now\nwith this little divider there I have to figure that in. It's kind of\na pain in the ass.\n\tIs there any way I could make myself a little box that could\nsolve this little problem. The box would tkae the function generator\ninput, lower the voltage and give an output impedance that is some\nlow, unchanging number. I would want to lower the voltage by a factor\nof one hundred or so. I could just build a little buffer amp, but I'd\nlike to have this box not be active.\n\tAny quick ideas. The scope's not broken. For other reasons I\nhad sent it to the shop to get repaired and they replaced it. The\nfunction generator was the same way on that one, too.\n\n\t\t\tplease help as I am feeling very stupid \n\t\t\ttoday,", "******* LOWERED PRICES *******\n\n\tI have the following IBM hardware forsale\n\n\tATI VgaWonderXl24 - This is a great card, it supports 1024x768 256\n colors, 800x600 32k colors, and 640x480 16 million colors. I found that it\n also speed up windows considerably. I'm asking $90 o.b.o. for this card.\n\n\n\tI also have 2 2400 internal baud modems. I have Docs for both but I \n don't have the original boxes. Both work fine and I'd like to get $20 each or\n $35 for both .\n\n\tBackUPS 400 - Backup power supply that allows CPU and Monitor to \ncontinue to operate up to 30 minutes in event of power failure. Asking $50.", "This isn't quite true - depending on the number of local bus slots, and\nwhether or not the device is integrated into the mother board, it is\npossible to run local bus at up to 40 and 50 mhz. I've also spoken to a few \npeople who run standard local bus video cards at 50 mhz without trouble\n(and a couple of people who couldn't get a lb card to work at that speed).", "I am having something very unusual happen. First \nsome background on my system. I have a Mitsubishi 63 meg Hard Drive, \nand am running Smartdrv (the version that comes with Windows 3.1) on \nit. I rarely use Windows. I use a program called Disk Technician \nGold v1.14 to do diagnostics live time on my hard drive. It works by \nhaving a device driver detect whenever more than one read is \nnecessary for a file, or if there is anything else is wrong with it, \nand minor problems are fully checked out upon rebooting. My hard \ndrive is notorious for bad sectors. I usually end up with 8 new bad \nsectors a week.\n \n Here's what happened: I ran a program, and DTG broke in with \nan Emergency Warning and recommended I reboot. It gave me this \nmessage twice before the program was fully loaded. I exited the program \nand did just this. DTG went through its bootup process, examining \nfor new errors etc., and a screen popped up and said something about \nsectors for a brief period of time.\n \n I then went back to the program, executed it again, and the \nexact same error was detected. I rebooted and tried again, and the \nsame error happened again. So, I removed DTG from memory, and went \nto the program to see if I could detect anything wrong. Sure enough \nthere was a number of read attempts. So I rebooted and reloaded DTG, \nbut removed the cache. I executed the program. No read errors, \neither audible or detected by DTG. I quit the program, loaded the \ncache, and ran the program again. The errors were detected.\n \n Ok, so the errors are there, and DTG detects but doesn't fix \nthem, when the cache is loaded. When the cache is not loaded there are \nno errors. So, to see if the cache was interfering with any other \nfiles, I went into xtree gold and tagged all files, and searched them \nfor a random string (in other words, I wanted the program to \ncompletely read every file on my hard drive). Before I got through \nthe c's DTG had detected at least six errors and recommended I reboot.\n \n Does anybody, have any idea why Smartdrv is causing misreads on \nmy hard drive? Oh, there are exactly two misreads per file, and 1 in \nabout every 100 files are affected. \n \n I originally posted this message to Disk Technician Corp.'s \nsystem, but I figured someone out in netland may know enough about \nsmartdrv to help me out.\n", "\n\nWell, this is *only* a guess: If it goes by the \"true\" meaning of \"bit\nmap\", then it holds (x,y,c) where x pixel number in th ex-direction, y:\npixel-number in the y-dir, c: colour.", "I'm looking for a copy of \"Bela Lugosi's last film.\" If anyone has a copy\nof this stinker, please e-mail me. (Also, if anyone knows a better place to\npost this, please tell me).\n", "I just recently bought a 4 MB ram card for my original mac portable \n(backlit) and have since had some bizarre crashes. It happens when I put \nthe machine to sleep and wake the machine up. sometimes it will just \nfreeze the cursor and lock the machine up forcing me to push the reset \nswitch. Other times it will give me the usual bomb box with the error \nmessage of \"Co processor not installed\". \n\nI know one solution is NOT to put the machine to sleep, but does anyone \nhave any ideas on what could be causing this or better yet what might fix \nit? The memory card is Psuedostatic ram and goes into the PDS Slot. That \nprobably figures into the problem. the manufacturer is King Memory (Not \nkingston) from irvine, CA. They say the problem is in my machine. \n\nAny Ideas? -- Gene Wright.\n", "[again, poseted for a friend]\n\nOkay, I got such great response from my last question (thanks, everyone), \nlets try again:\n\nHow can I tell if a colorcell is read-only?\n\nI want to use any read-only cells that are already in my colormap\nonce I start running out of allocatable cells, using some arbitrary\nnearest color matching scheme to get those cells that come closest to\na requested color.\n\nOnce I determine if a cell is read-only, I assume I can then just request\nan XAllocColor() with the exact same color specifications and it will \nthen be flagged as 'used' by my application so that it doesn't later get\nfreed by someone else and allocated again as read-write to another\napplication.\n\nSo far, the only way I've figured out to do this is to write my own\nerror handler and just go ahead and request the cells colors, once my\ncolormap is all full up. It should error out if the cell is non-shareable.\nBut life would be much easier if I could just detect the\nread-only/shareable stuff directly...\n\nAny ideas?", "\n\tWhen you find some new ones, I suggest donating the ones\n\tyou have now to the Lautrec family in France... \n\n\t\t\t\tMichael\n", "There is a file at the simtel archives called adda10.zip I think that\nis for DSP.\n", ": VirtualGrabKeys is not an OW resource. It belongs to olvwm(1).\n\nNot only that, the olvwm(1) (version3.3) man-page says it's called", "There is a shareware program called v-switch.zip. I don't remember if it \nis on wuarchive.wustl.edu or on ftp.cica.indiana.edu. \n\nIt is easy to use and does the job with no problem.\n\n-Eric", "From article <1993May15.091822.14174@lth.se>, by knut@tts.lth.se (Ake Knutsson):\n\n Put ProgMan (with the hotkey) in your StartUp -group. Should do it.", "\nWell, I tried this method based on responses from several people. Either\nI am a klutz(probable) or they have changed the connector. I ended up having\nto destroy the connector, put heat shrink tubing on the individual pins and \nthen plug them into the SB connector in the correct order. It works great \nthis way so this turned out just fine. It certainly sounded easy based on\nother people's experiences but my attempts did not go too well...\n\nJohn\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------", "Recently we have found TIFF manipulation packages which do not recognize\nTIFF files output by xv. This is due to a missing XRESOLUTION and YRESOLUTION\ntag which apparently is required (or at least believed to be required) for\nvalid TIFF. I have checked both xv 2.x and xv 3.x and neither of these\ndo indeed copy these tags.\n\nHas anyone out there hacked in the fixes for xv to support these tags?\nI have been told that I could find some code in tiff/tools/tiffcp.c, but\nthat directory is one of many of the tiff group not distributed with xv. I\nhope to obtain the original tiff src and look at it, but would prefer\nto find code already known to work in xv.", "For Sale:\n\n Amiga 3000/16\n 6 megs RAM\n 1950 Monitor\n extra external hard drive\n Much sotware games/graphics/productivity/etc...\n\n USR HST 14.4 Modem (not dual standard)\n\n\n Amiga/software: $ 950\n USR HST Modem : $ 250\n\n Price for both: $1100\n", "Hi folks,\n\nI'm doing an animated film on new methodes in loom\nresearch (You know, the thing they make cloth with.)\nand need a model of a loom. The format should be \nin ascii faceted geometry and fairly straight\nforward to figure out. Any help or pointers would be\ngreatly appreciated.\n\n-Thanks\n\nRick Boykin\n\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n Rick Boykin (rboykin@cscsparc.larc.nasa.gov)\n Computer Sciences Corporation, Hampton, VA.\n\n \"So maybe I could be a fly\n and feed arachnid as I die\" -Tom Marshall", "\n\tWell....I don't know about its competing with 3D studio, but\nit's pretty powerful allright.\n\n\n\tYes, send e-mail to:\n\n\timagine-request@email.sp.paramax.com\n\n\tWith a header of something like subscribe.\n\n\n\tI actually work on the FAQ (frequently asked questions). We\nshould have the new version out of it by next week, but if you want, I\ncould e-mail you the previous one. It details what the list is etc...\nas well as answering basic questions about Imagine.\n\n\tHope this helps!\n\n", "Yes we have the same problem with xinit. The problems seems to come from the\nfact that the XOpenDisplay(\":0\") fails. If we try (on our machine\nnamed godzilla)\n\nsetenv DISPLAY godzilla:0.0\nXibm&\nxterm \n\n\nIt works fine, but the following will not work\n\nsetenv DISPLAY unix:0.0\nXibm&\nxterm \n\nDid we set a configuration option incorrectly? Thank you for any assistance\nyou can offer.\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n Herb Hasler --- herb@iiasa.ac.at\n International Institute for Applied Systems Anaylsis (IIASA)\n A-2361 Laxemburg, Austria --- +43 2236 715 21 ext 548", "Being a big fan of the official IBM keyboards, I have a PS/2 keyboard attached \nto my clone computer. I want to know if there is a software utility\nout there that can be used to switch the locations of the ctrl and\ncap locks keys. Even better, does IBM or any third party make ctrl\nand cap lock key replacements that can be used to visually switch\nthe keys as well?\n", "I am looking for a means to add FLI and FLC animation creation\nto a Windows application. I was hoping for something along the lines\nof AAWIN or AAPLAY by Autodesk but for the creation of these delta \ncompressed animations. I have FLILIB but this seems to be coded for \nthe Large memory model of DOS with Turbo C. Ideally I would\nlike a DLL or Medium model object library, but would settle\nfor anything, really. I've seen other Windows apps with\nFLI/FLC creation, did they hack the FLILIB code into submission?\n\nAny pointers would be appreciated, please send mail directly\nto me and I will summarize the results if there is interest.", "\n Hi,\n\n I have been told by a local sales that Asante has come out with this\n LCIII PDS Ethernet adapter with an optional 68882 socket on the board.\n My question is will the FPU performance degrade will I put the 68882\n on the PDS card socket instead of on the motherboard itself? Intuitively,\n the math co-processor should always be placed close to the CPU, but\n I am not sure how good Apple's so-called processor-direct slot is when\n it comes to throughout. Does anyone know the answer to this or have\n any experience with the Asante LCIII Ethernet adapter? Thanks in advance.\n\nFrom what I've heard the PDS slot clock is only 16MHz, to be\ncompatible with the old LC style boards, while the FPU socket close to\nthe CPU is clocked at 25MHz.\n\nI guess a board designed for the LCIII can get a 25MHz clock from the\nextended PDS socket...", "\n\n\n..that's what I thought, that's why I never used emm386.exe before.\n", "\n Please tell me where I can get a CD on the Wergo Music label for less\nthan $20.\n\nfoolishly,", "Has anyone tried connecting an Apple Laserwriter II to a PC?\nDo I need any special controller card or software to do that?\n\nThanks for any comments.\n", "I am looking for a program called VBREADER. It is an off line mail\nreader for Windows using QWK mail packets. Or if anyone knows of\nany good QWK mail readers please let me know.\n \n Thanks\n \n Kevin ", "I have a 486DX 25mhz with local bus. Would I see much of an increase in\nspeed in my drives if I got a VESA IDE controller card? I need advice!\n\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\nI have been using both IDE (or MFM) and SCSI drives for years. I have 2\nIDE and 1 SCSI on one system and the other with 2 IDE, 2 SCSI disk, and \n1 SCSI CDROM. I currently using ALWAYS IN2000 SCSI card, but I also have\na Future Domain, a Western Digital SCSI card, and I work with an ADAPTIC \nbefore. As I recall, all these cards can support boot and floppy drive.\nHowever, to use with other controller (IDE, MFM...) the boot drive has to\nbe the IDE (or MFM). You CAN NOT boot from the SCSI if you have other \ncontroller in the system. If you guys only have 2 drives (1 IDE, 1 SCSI).\njust set up the IDE in your CMOS setup. Make sure you can boot from it.\nThen, set up the SCSI controller (IRQ, DMA, etc). Set the SCSI drive to \nID 0. Just plug and play for all the cards I seen so far. Only if you \nhave more than 2 drives then you need driver for the third drive and so\non. If you have more question, email me, I will try to answer it.\nGood Luck!", "Hi\n\tI have an Orchid Fahrenheit VLB with 2MB of DRAM. It is an S3\n86c805 based card. I had a problem for a while after installing my\nsecond meg of DRAM for the video, and thanks to Orchid, I got a fix\nfrom their tech support (it was jumper settings not given in the\nordinary manual. I assume it would come with memory ordered from\nthem, so I guess I should be glad they didn't just say \"Buy the memory\nfrom us\" or something like that.)\n\n\tThe one thing that I was puzzled by was why there was not a\n1024x768x32k color mode on the thing, either in full screen or\nenlarged desktop mode. My ATI Ultra Plus can handle that, given 2MB\nof memory. All the 2MB buys you on the Fahrenheit is 1280x1024x256.\nJust ONE more mode. GEEZ. Had I known, I wouldn't have bothered. I\nasked them why, and all I got was \"Your point is well taken, but\nOrchid's software developers are busy with other projects.\"\n\n\tSo, to get to the point, finally, ARE there any s3 86c805\ndrivers out there that can handle high res hicolor modes? I'd love to\nget another card, but perhaps it will have to wait until the next\ngeneration of cards comes out, since this card came bundled with my\nsystem and it's not so easy to exchange these things unless they're\nbroken.\n\n\tIf you want these modes, steer away from Orchids s3 86c805\ncards (ie. VLB or VA/VLB), at least until their developers are \"less\nbusy\". If the magazines are to believed, I've only seen one s3 86c805\nproduct thus far which can handle 1024x768x32k color (Genoa?),\nalthough evenn that might be a misprint.\n\n\tPlease, if there are generic or semi-generic drivers out\nthere, let me know where I can get them. 800x600x32k is OK, but I\ncoulda gotten that with my ATI VGA Wonder XL.", "\n\nYou don't mention your platform but Digital has a custom widget, NetEd, \nwhich does exactly what you want to do. Cost is nominal 300 or so - call your\nlocal office. The widget is supported on a variety of platforms and I heard\nrumblings of porting to Sun, etc. so it may be worth the check.", "Greetings,\n\tWe have a network of ~20 Sun Workstations, running SunOS 4.1.1\nand Openwindows 3. 7 of these are Sun 3's that we have modified to\nrun Seth Robertson's xkernel image, effectively turning them into\nxterminals. We use xdm (X11R4) to manage the displays.\n\n\tWhen we had 3 xkernel machines, things worked fine, but when\nwe installed 4 more last weekend, we appear to have found a weakness.\nWith 7 clients to 1 Sparc 2, the Sparc 2 window manager is eventually\ngetting munged. \n\n\tLet me try to be precise: The user sitting at the machine\nthat does all the actual processing for these xterminals is having\ncontrol of his keyboard and screen yanked away. (When this was the\ndepartment chair, it was kind of cute). We poked at xdm for a few\ndays and are satisfied that it is not at fault. Our current theory is\nthat olwm (the Sun version) was not meant for running multiple copies\non one machine (which is what happens -- the console user runs olwm,\nand every xterminal logged in has olwm running on the xterminal\nserver). \n\n\tHas anyone had any prior experience with this sort of behavior?\n\tCan anyone shoot obvious holes in this theory?\n\tHow about obvious gimmes?\n\tAnd, of course, any ideas on how to solve it?\n\n\tAny ideas are greatly appreciated.", "\n\nOne can't. The application may not have been started from a terminal\nemulator; if it was, the terminal emulator may not still exist, and if\nit does it may be in no condition to be \"pop[ped] to the top\" (eg, it\nmay be iconified). And even if you can, it may not do what you want -\nconsider a virtual-root window manager like tvtwm, with the relevant\nwindow in a portion of the virtual desktop that's outside the real\ndesktop.\n\nSome (but not all) X terminal emulators provide environment variables\ngiving a window ID. Even if such a thing is present in the\nenvironment, it may not be what you want; it may correspond to a window\non a different server, for example.\n\n\t\t\t\t\tder Mouse", "Greetings,\n\n Please forgive me if this is FAQ. If there is source on this kind of info, \nplease let me know. I just got a 286 station (around 21*16.5*7 in dimension),\nand I am thinking about upgrade it to a 486 or 386.\n\n The station has a power supply, two floppy disk drives, and the big\ncase. I have SONY 1304 monitor, SyQuest drive (Mac), and maybe a cd-rom\nreader (Mac) for it. Here are the questions I have so far:\n1) Is there a 486 motherboard at this dimension that I could use the case?\n2) The original owener has the controller for floppy drive and hard disk\nremoved. Can I use them to control these devices under 486? How much do I\nhave to pay for a new controllers if the old ones won't work?\n3) How can I make SyQuest (SCSI) and cd-rom (SCSI) work on this station? \nI heard that there is a cheap sound board that has SCSI controller built-in?\nWhat's quality of this board? How much usually does a SCSI control cost?\nIs there any ftp sites that has SyQuest driver or cd-rom driver for the PC if\nI can have everything hooked up OK?4) What I want is a 486 motherboard, a sound board to make it a MPC- \nquality station. How much would it cost to do that? Is it worth the hussle\nthan just buy a new 486 station? BTW, I need to buy a keyboard for it too.\n\nAny input is welcome.\n\nThank you.", "\n\nIf you only do read/print then there is no reason for the joystick stuff\nnot to take 90% of the time even if it is efficient.\n\n\nThe truth is that int 15H joystick reading IS slow. I read it directly\nfrom the hardware port. Note that doing so exposes you to intermittent\ndisturbance from interrupts, so you may want to read (say) twice in a\nrow and keep the lower results. Don't just turn interrupts off, it may\nprove detrimental to the health of any high speed comms and other\ndevices.\n\nHere is an example of how to do this:\n\n/* ------------------------------ joy.c ------------------------------------- */\n\n/* An example of how to read PC joystick port by polling the hardware port\n * directly.\n * Uses inp()/outp() for byte port access.\n * Will timeout when 'int count=0' counts up to zero.\n * This sample reads one port (A is presented and B is in the comments).\n * You can read both at once by merging the two, but it will time out\n * when either joystick is not connected.\n *\n * There is no need to optimize this routine since it runs for as long as\n * the joystick circuitry needs.\n *\n * Written by Eyal Lebedinsky (eyal@ise.canberra.edu.au).\n*/\n\n#include \n#include \n#include \n\nextern int readjoy (int *x, int *y, int *b1, int *b2);\n\n#define JOYPORT\t0x201\n\n#define\tXJOY\t0x01\t/* for joystick B use 0x04 */\n#define\tYJOY\t0x02\t/* for joystick B use 0x08 */\n#define XYMASK\t(XJOY|YJOY)\n#define\tBUT1\t0x10\t/* for joystick B use 0x40 */\n#define\tBUT2\t0x20\t/* for joystick B use 0x80 */\n\nint\t\t\t\t\t/* returns 0 if ok */\nreadjoy (int *x, int *y, int *b1, int *b2)\n{\n\tregister int\tcount;\n\tregister char\ttemp, joy;\n\n\ttemp = (char)XYMASK;\n\tcount = 0;\n\toutp (JOYPORT, 0);\t\t/* set trigger */\n\tdo {\n\t\ttemp ^= (joy = (char)inp (JOYPORT));\n\t\tif (temp & XJOY)\n\t\t\t*x = count;\n\t\tif (temp & YJOY)\n\t\t\t*y = count;\n\t} while (++count && ((temp = joy) & XYMASK));\n\t*b1 = !(joy & BUT1);\n\t*b2 = !(joy & BUT2);\n\n\treturn (!count);\n}\n\n/* This main() is for demonstration.\n*/\n\nint\nmain ()\n{\n\tint\trc, x, y, b1, b2;", "How can I draw an object of a specified color over objects of varying colors\n and then erase it without having to redraw everything else?\n\n What's happening is this,\n\n If I draw it using GXcopy, it is drawn in the specified color. If I erase\n it using GXcopy with foreground and background reversed, it erases \n whatever it overlayed. I then need to redraw\n all of the items it crossed. Yuch.\n\n If I draw it using GXinvert it is drawn in a random color - nothing \n resembling what I requested. It properly restores the color of \n underlying objects in erase mode.\n\n What's the solution?\n \n", "+ I am looking at a new LC III and a used IIci. Prices\n\n+ The IIci has much greater potential for expansion, a la NuBus and\n+ greater memory capacity.\n\nHow important is this? How many NuBus cards do you have/plan to\nacquire? How much memory do you really need? I've got a ci, and\n20mb of ram. That's plenty. I also have a 24bit graphics card\non the NuBus - I'm a sucker for pretty pictures...I think the\nLCIII can have a bootable ramdisk in memory, which a ci can\nnot have. At least, not out of the box.\n\n+ The LC III would be new, under warranty, newer ROMs (is the IIci\n+ \"32-bit clean\"?), and would have sound input. I also like the\n+ \"pizza-box\" case.\n\nThe ci is 32-bit clean. I solved the sound input problem with\na MacRecorder. But that's gotten to be a fairly expensive\nsolution now that Macromind owns MacRecorder.\n\n+ Performance-wise, I have read that they are almost identical, the\n+ LC III being a little slower.\n\nThe actual difference is probably not worth worrying over.\n \n+ So, which should I get?\n\nDepends on the price you can get the ci for. Educationally speaking,\nthe 4/80 [?] LCIII here at FSU can be had at just under $1300. Add\nin roughly $500 for a monitor. Last I'd heard, an 8mb LCIII simm\nwent for ~$250. \n\nI think you're in a win-win situation. No matter what you decide,\nyou'll most likely be happy with it.", "\n{> \n{> \n{> >What is the difference between the US Robotics Courier v32bis external and t\n{> >Sportster 14400 external? I see that the price of a Sportster has dramatical\n{> >dropped to below $200 but the price of the Courier remains above $400.\n{> >\n{> >Anyone with knowledge of both of these modems or anyone that owns a Courier?\n{> \n{> The Sportster at 14.4 has v.42 error control and v.42 bis data compression.\n{> This is becoming standard on all these high speed modems. The difference\n{> with the Courier, is that it can run at 16.8 and only in the HST mode. \n\nThe courrier will not run at 16800 only the Dual Standard HST (the USR\nmodem over $600) my courrier will do up to 14,400 and with compression\nerror correction, much more. it will do v.32 v.32bis v.42 v.42bis\nv.22 etc. etc and ASL too. (whatever asl is)\n\n -David\n\n=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=", "Can someone tell me in 25 words or less how to compile posix\nmessage catalogs so that I can use them with catgets, catopen, etc.\nI know what the format for the catalogs is, but don't know how\nto compile them.\n\nPlease reply to chas@blackwhite.com\n\nThanks in advance,\n\nchas", "I have an old Optonica tuner and integrated amp that I no longer\nuse. The integrated amp section does not work right now but should\nnot cost much to fix. I believe that it is just a Chip. I have \nused it as a preamp and it works great!\n\nThis is a very nice looking and well built set. They both are low \nprofile but the amp is rather heavy.\n\nThe tuner is in fine working condition and is a match to the amp.\n\nThe amp is rated at 75w/ch.\n\nThese peices went for about $850 New.\n\nI would like to get $150. obo for the pair. \n\nIf anybody has knowledge anough to fix the amp, I have had an estimate\ndone that it should cost less than $50 in parts.\n\nPlease email me if you are interested. I will be moving back home for\nthe summer and will sell it back there if I do not do so here.\n\nTodd\n", "\n\nOh. OK then, sorry for misunderstanding.\n\n\nMaybee you should persuade your burea that for only $650 they can become much\nmore competitive, taking input from Autocad, PostScript andGif as well as\nSCODL... \n\nSeriously, this sounds like something the bureau should have. Or find another\nbureau. You should not be the one buting this software.\n\n--\nChris Lilley\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTechnical Author, ITTI Computer Graphics and Visualisation Training Project\nComputer Graphics Unit, Manchester Computing Centre, Oxford Road, \nManchester, UK. M13 9PL Internet: C.C.Lilley@mcc.ac.uk \nVoice: +44 (0)61 275 6045 Fax: +44 (0)61 275 6040 Janet: C.C.Lilley@uk.ac.mcc", "Could someone please send instructions for installing simms and vram to \njmk13@po.cwru.edu? He's just gotten his 700 and wants to drop in some \nextra simms and vram that he has for it.", "this */\n */\nI tried\nhow can I\n\nDoes the workstation you're using have hardware cursor support? Or does\nthe server generate a software cursor. You can generally tell the difference\njust by using it. If the cursor blinks a lot when there's screen activity,\nit's probably a software cursor. If it has a hardware cursor, I think you're\nprobably battling a bug in HP's X server. I'm not familiar with any hardware\ncursor chips that display cursors greater than 64x64. It's quite possible\nthat the server is just echoing your preferred cursor size without actually\nchecking it. I vaguely recall that very old MIT server revisions did just \nthat.\n\nIn reality you're probably stuck with a 64x64 maximum size cursor regardless\nof what the server returns.", "My suggestion would be to contact Microsoft about the Video4Windows SDK.\nYou would need to call Developer Services at (800)227-4679 extension 11771\nfrom 6:30am to 5:30pm Pacific time.\n\n", "I'd like to install an Apple (Quantum) 40 MB hard drive taken from a IIsi in an\nexternal PowerDrive box from Hard Drives International that currenty has a dead\nConner mechanism in it. Have you done this (or do you know how)? If so, could\nyou please walk me through it, in as much detail as possible?\n\nPlease email me directly. If anyone else is interested in this, email me and\nI'll forward responses to you. If enough people want instructions, I'll post a\nsummary within a week or so.\n\nThanks in advance,", "From article <1993Apr17.010256.14372@eafs000.ca.boeing.com>, by ten0772@eafs000.ca.boeing.com (Timothy E. Neto):\n\nThis all sounds suspiciously like my company might have something to\ndo with this.\n\nBackground first: Megatek has a series of framebuffers designed as\nX accelerators. For the most part these are designed for Sun SBUS\nand Sun (and other vendor's) VME systems.\n\nThat said, Megatek products support multi-screen and/or multi-display\non a sigle workstation. Most of our cards have a keyboard/mouse port\nwhich can be used to provide additional displays. For example, say\nyou hade a Sparcstation with an Sbus expansion chassis. You could\nput in six frambuffers, allowing a total of six screens in the system.\nYou could then attach from 1 to 6 keyboard/mice, allowing you to\nmix and match any combination of screens and displays. You could\nhave 1 6-screen display, 3 2-screen displays, 6 1-screen displays,\nor 1 2-screen display and 1 4-screen display. Basically any\ncombination.\n\nBecause of this, we at Megatek try to be very careful about the use\nof the words multi-screen and multi-display. They are quite different\nin meaning, and (at least in X) have exact definitions.\n\nThe reason I ramble like this is the mention of an upper limit if 12\nscreens in a display. As it so happens, there's a define in the server\nthat determines the most screens supported (server/include/misc.h,\nMAXSCREENS). As released my MIT, this is 3. As released by Megatek,\nthis is 12.\n\nAs such, the most screens supported by a single Megatek display (i.e.\nX server) is 12. If someone construed this to be a limitation of X\nI'm sorry, but clearly (as pointed out so well by Mr. Neto) this is\nnot the case.\n\nWe just did it here because nobody has ever asked us for more. Of\ncourse, I could say \"Buy all you want, we'll support more.\"\n-- ", "ROLAND JUNO 60- SYNTHESIZER. EXCELLENT CONDITION. GREAT FAT ANALOG\nSOUND. USED IN THE SONG \"JUMP\" BY VAN HALEN. $300 OR BEST OFFER\n\nUNIDEN RD-9XL RADAR DETECTOR- EXCELLENT CONDITION. DON'T BE CAUGHT BY\nTHE COPS! $50 OR BEST OFFER! SMALLER THAN A CREDIT CARD. COMPACT!\n\nFOR THE KEYBOARD EMAIL GREG.PARK@DARTMOUTH.EDU\nFOR THE RADAR EMAIL RICH.LEE@DARTMOUTH.EDU", "Up until last week, I have been running POVray v1.0 on my 486/33 under DOS5\nwithout any major problems. Over Easter I increased the memory from 4Meg to\n8Meg, and found that POVray reboots the system every time under DOS5. I had\na go at running POVray in a DOS window when running Win3.1 on the same system\nand it now works fine, even if a lot slower. I would like to go back to \nusing POVray directly under DOS, anyone any ideas???\n\nJohn", "I'm in need of a videotaped copy of a pc (pd) program. Please let me know if\nyou can do this.", "I would like to sell my PS/2 Model 50, with its Kingston SX/Now! \n33MHz processor, a Cyrix FasMath coprocessor (CPU/FPU LandMark \nscores of 46.6MHz/107.8MHz), 8 Meg (9 Meg total) on a AST \nAdvantage/2 board (0 wait state), original 20 Meg hard drive, and a \nvery fast Adaptec 1640 SCSI controller card (worth around $300 new) \nwith software to control any external or internal SCSI device. I'm \nincluding Dos 6.0 (or 5.0), and keyboard. The VGA will drive any \nmultisynching or straight VGA (cheap) monitor.", "With a sound card on interrupt 5, two serial ports (one for modem on i4,\none for Miracle Piano on i3) and a printer port on i7, I have run out of\nlow interrupts. What I would like is a mouse port with an interrupt of\n10, 11, or 12 (which ever interrupt the PS/2 mouse port uses) in in ISA\ni486 computer. I called technical support of Microsoft, Logitech, & ATI\n(checked what interrupts the mouse port on the ATI video cards can use)\nand they all said the only interrupts possible on these cards was ones\nlower than 7. Does anyone know of any board for an ISA bus which will\nallow a mouse port (or even a serial port) with high interrupts?", "\nThe point is that the original poster was talking about connecting\nground and neutral in the *outlet* box (big NO NO), and you are talking\nabout them being connected in the breaker box (as things should be).\n\nIf this is not obvious, the point is that there should be current\nflow in the white, i.e. neutral/return wires when things in the\nhouse are operating. There should not be any flow in the ground wires\nunless there is a fault condition. Notice also that in the breaker box\nthere is a wire leading from the above-mentioned junction to earth ground,\nusually a pipe or spike driven into the ground.", "\n\n\n\nRather than decide which book you want to buy, you need to decide which\nprogramming interface you want to use, then buy the appropriate book.\n\nI wrote an article for the X Resource which discusses the differences\nbetween PHIGS and PEXlib (it will appear in Issue 6 which should be out\npretty soon). But here's a brief summary...\n\nPHIGS is a graphics API which was designed to be portable to many\ndevices. Most implementations support the X Window System and take\nadvantage of a 3D extension to X called \"PEX\". PEXlib is a slightly\n\"lower\" level API which was designed to efficiently support the PEX\nextension to X.\n\nSome advantages of using PEXlib...\n- Integrates with Xlib,Xt,Motif,etc. better than PHIGS\n- Provides immediate mode capabilities\n- Is free of \"policy\"\n- PEX supports PHIGS, but is currently being extended to support\n features not found in PHIGS (like texture mapping, anti-aliasing).\n PEXlib will give you access to all of these features.\n\nSome advantages of using PHIGS...\n- Support for multiple devices, not just X based ones\n- Support for archiving, metafiles, hardcopy output\n- PHIGS has predefined input devices to make input easier\n- PHIGS can handle exposure events and resizing for you\n- PHIGS can help you with colormap selection/creation.\n\nIf you're working strictly in X and don't care about things like\narchiving, I would go with PEXlib. Either way, you will find that\nboth API's have a lot in common.", "I am running System 7.1 on a Centris 610. I have not been able to setup my\nprinter yet because when I open Chooser, I get a blank screen. I do have all\nkinds of print drivers but none shows up. I even do not get a port iconn\neither. It is just one big BLANK screen.\n\nYour help is very appreciated. \nBTW I did rebuild the desktop but that did not help either.", "The PowerBook 170 4/40 with Fax/Data modem is available thru CitiBank's\nCitiDollars catalog for $1995.00 + $19.95 S/H (+ 500 CitiDollars).\n\nThe modem is 2400 bps data, 9600 bps fax (send only).\n", "...\n\nI tried to respond by email, but all attempts bounced.\n\nThe condition of the Ctrl key BEFORE you press the mouse button makes no\ndifference whatsoever. You have to be holding the Ctrl key when you\nRELEASE the mouse button if you want to force a copy operation.\n\nHere's a simple experiment. Select a file and begin to drag it (no Ctrl\nkey). Notice that the file's icon disappears from the listing window. Now\nwatch what happens to that icon as you press and release the Ctrl key\n(keeping the mouse button pressed all the while). In addition, the icon\nthat you are dragging will show a \"+\" while you are holding the Ctrl key,\nindicating that the file is being copied rather than moved.\n", "Hi I'm new to imaging, and my advisor and I would like to \ndo some 3D reconstructions.\n\nWe take slides (biological), and image them on a 486. Then\nthe software allows us to trace the outline of the objects \nwe want to save. The outlines are stored as a TIFF file.\n\nWe would like to convert a group of these outlines into a \n3D image. We are unsure as to where to begin. Someone mentioned\nthat if we could convert the TIFF into a vector format then \nwe could view them in Autocad.\n\nAny help would be greatly appreciated.", "Hi there,\n\n\n Do someone of you have a program for sending a key event\nto another window but it MUST appear in that window....\n\nI have used xsendevent.tar package but it does not do that !!!\n\nFor example, if I get a program executing:\n\n--------------\n#!/bin/sh\nread something\n....\n....\necho $something\n....\n....\n--------------\n\nand if I send the key event \"a,a\"\nto that window then I will get:\n\nsomething=a\n\n\nThanks in advance.\n\n\n-- ", "Some kind soul told me that I could change the serial port buffer size\nof Zterm via ResEdit. He did not tell me HOW I could change it using\nResEdit, and I have lost his e-mail address.\n\nCould he or any one else please tell me what to do?\n\nI assume that the relevant resource is zSet, but I do not know, and\nI have no template for that resource. If you have a TMPL for the correct\nresource, I would be grateful to receive it. That way, I could play around\na bit and maybe get my Duo to do something useful with its serial port.\n(other than Appletalk).\n\nBTW, I believe that when the port stats says that maximum in buffer is\n3074 bytes, that that means increasing the buffer will help, if you are\nusing hardware handshaking. I can cram text data pretty fast into my Duo,\nand can monitor that CTS is being lowered, but the buffer never gets beyond\n3074 (out of 4096) bytes. Makes sense to me.", "currently I am using the 8051 microcontroller with external eprom..\n\nIn order to drive the dc motor (with direction) I use the Pulse width modultion \n\nthru software control(Assembly language programming). However I am afraid that\n\nthey will be overheads and thus alter the pulse timing. My question is \n\nis the software pwm control reliable?. I understand that port 0 is a latch\n\nand so I vary the duty cycle by setting it high first and at the desire ", "\nI have a Lightening Scan Pro 256 hand scanner. It came with scanning/editing\nsoftware, OCR software, and some plug-in modules for Photoshop et al. The\nscanner was a tad on the pricey side ($480), but the scans are incredibly\naccurate, in 256 level, 300 dpi grayscale. It also has dithered and line art\nsettings when grayscale isn't desired. Great scanning software, easy to use. I\nfrequently write letters to my neices, and spontaneouly include a scanned image\nin the note. Hope this helps!\n", "\n: >Hi, it's an *easy* question for you Windows gurus. I'd appreciate any help.\n\n: >We need to write an on-line help for our application. We don't have\n: >Windows Software Developer's Toolkit (yet :-) ). Since we just want to build\n: >a .HLP file around Windows' help engine, I hope it won't be that complicated?\n: >Anyway, could someone kindly give me some hints of how to build such an\n: >on-line help, if it does not take 100 pages to explain? Or if it is complicated,\n: >would you help to point out what I would need to do it?\n: >-- \n\n\n: >Vincent Q. Yin\n: >umyin@ccu.umanitoba.ca\n\n: Hi,\n\n: If you have developed your own windows application you must have a \n: SDK of some sort that contains the HC.EXE or HC31.EXE file to \n: compile and generate .HLP files out of .RTF files.\n\n****-------> No, U can download what??.zip from ftp.cica.indiana.edu\n This package from MS is all U need to buid (simple?) .HLP\n files from Rich Text Format Files (.RTF). This package\n also contains .DOT tamplates for MS Word4Win.\n \n: RTF files are generated by a wordprocessor like Word for Dos or W4W.\n\n: If this is not the solution be more specific about your application.", "Forsale:\n\nProton P1100 preamplifier\n========================= About 3.5 years old, originally $299, asking $150\nor best offer. Has inputs for tape 1, tape 2, CD, phono, video and tuner.\nSeparate listen and record selectors. Bass EQ, subharmonic filter and mono\nswitch. High quality volume potentiometer. In excellent condition, with\noriginal boxes and manual.\n\nSony D-88 portable Diskman\n========================== This is the one designed to play the mini CD's.\nYou can play normal size CDs, but the disk sticks out the side. Works\nwell,\nbut may skip occasionally - it should be tuned up (heads aligned, cleaned,\netc.) In excellent condition. It has not been used all that much. With\ncarrying case. Original list was (I think) $300, but I'll take $80 or best\noffer. It would be good for an office or just to sit on your desk.\n\nPlease email me or telephone at\n(617) 278-0068.\n\nEric", "\n\nIt's really not that hard to do. There are books out there which explain\neverything, and the basic 3D functions, translation, rotation, shading, and\nhidden line removal are pretty easy. I wrote a program in a few weeks witht\nhe help of a book, and would be happy to give you my source.\n\tAlso, Quickdraw has a lot of 3D functions built in, and Think pascal\ncan access them, and I would expect that THINK C could as well. If you can\nfind out how to use the Quickdraw graphics library, it would be an excellent\nchoice, since it has a lot of stuff, and is built into the Mac, so should be\nfast.\n\nLibertarian, atheist, semi-anarchal Techno-Rat.", "For those of you who couldn't find X-Appeal, it is availible at\nthe following sitex:\n\n\tascwide.ascii.co.jp in the /pub/MSDOS/xappeal dir\n\twuarchive.wustl.edu in the /mirrors4/garbo.uwasa.fi/demo\n\tdirectory\n\n\tThe three files are xap13exe.aip, xap10fon.zip and\n drivers.zip.\n\nJosh", "I need to find how to program the WD7000 FAAST SCSI controller (A 16 bit DMA\nSCSI controller for the PC (ISA bus)). Can somebody point me in the direction\nof some low level docs on the net? Or will I have to get hold of the\nmanufacturers? Who did actually make this anyway? Who will have the docs?\n\nTIA.\n\nPS> I don't ant the BIOS docs, I want to know how to attack this sucker from\nthe ground level (ie send my own SCSI commands out it from OS/2)\n\n-- \nHamish Marson, Computer Services, University of Waikato|\nhamish@waikato.ac.nz. Fax +64 7 8384066 | Computers are only \nDisclaimer: Remember. You heard it here first! | Human.....", "*FOR SALE*\n\nCompudyne 386-25SXL Laptop\n80 meg HD\n4 meg RAM\n3.5\" FD\nVGA Monochrome 64 Grey Scale\n\n+Math Coprocessor!\n\nAsking $1500, or best offer. Must sell soon.\n\n**Do not reply to this email address**\n\nCall Johnny at 312/856-1767\nEmail: phd_cz@gsbacd.uchicago.edu\n", "I have a PB 100 that I might be selling soon to upgrade to a Duo before\ngraduation, to take advantage of the educational discount. To those who\nhave recently bought or sold a PB 100, what kind of price did you get?\nInfo on any config of PB100 appreciated. Thanks.\n", "Xsun won't come up in color w/ this framebuffer! I am trying to use xkernel on\nsome of these 4/110s I have a freshly built Statically linkes copy of Xsun\nthat works just fine on cg6, cg4, bw2 type of framebuffers, but on the 4/110\nthat have this type of frame buffer all I get is Mono.\n\ncgtwo0 at vme24d16 0x400000 vec 0xa8 \ncgtwo0: Sun-3 color board, fast read\n\nHere is what I've tried.\n\nremoving all the other /dev/cg* , /dev/bw , and /dev/fb and then selectivly\nrecreating /dev/cgtwo0. Xsun comes up mono. recreating /dev/fb, comes up mono,\n\nI've tried Xsun & Xsun -dev /dev/cgtwo0.\n\nPS Xnews will come up in color but it's not statically linked, and the\ndynamically linked Xsun comes up in mono also.\n\nPPS Xsun was compiled on w/ gcc 2.3.3 on a system running 4.1.3 and the 4/110\nis also running 4.1.3.\n\nThanks n advance\n--\n\n- .. the HIGHWAY is made out of LIME JELLO and my HONDA\n is a barbequeued OYSTER! Yum!", "As quoted from <1993May13.212321.2563@moepi.do.open.de> by bernward@moepi.do.open.de (Bernward Averwald):\n+---------------\n\nThe server overhead for this is mildly ridiculous, though (see also DESQview/X,\nwhich does this in its DOS windows). Do you really want xterm to wake up every\nhalf second and whack the server into doing a bitblt?", "I'm looking into getting an external, reasonably fast (<350 ms avg access time)\nMultispin CD-ROM drive that supports \"Photo CD Multi Session\", has audio\noutput, and SCSI interface for connection to the PAS16 SCSI port. Does anyone\nhave any comments/experiences/warnings/recommendations they'd like to share\nconcerning the Texel DM-5024 and/or Toshiba TXM-3401E and/or others. THANKS!", "I get the picture, I just find it humorous that Running Windows 3.1 apps ( 3.0 for 2.0 ) \nis what makes os/2 more credible...", "Can anyone point me to a cross compiler and/or assembler for the Motorola\n68008, hosted by a PC compatible. Preferable Free or Shareware. \n\nAlso does anyone know of a GNU CC port to this chip.", "Yes, there are serveral programs which can convert font files (eq the Borland\nfonts) to objects consisting of spheres, cones etc. \nI've used a program (forgot its name/place, but i can look for it) which\nconverted these Borland fonts to three different raytracers. Vivid, POV and\nPolyray (which i like more (more flexibel/faster/use of expressions etc).\nThe program has a lot nice features.\nSo if interested give me a mail.", "Note: The device has never been used (IE: still in plastic) and is 10baseT", "} \n} \n} \n} } Hey,\n} \n} } could somebody tell me, how it is possible to work with the mouse\n} } in a NON-Windows application, which runs in an window. We use\n} } MS-WINDOWS 3.1 and have CLIPPER applications. Exists there any\n} } routines or something else ? Please mail me your informations.\n} \n} } Thanks for your efforts,\n} \n} } Oliver\n} }-- \n} } NAME : O.Kretzschmar Inst.IKE / University Stuttgart\n} } PHONE: +49 711 685 2130 Pfaffenwaldring 31\n} } FAX : +49 711 685 2010 7000 Stuttgart 80\n} } EMAIL: wnkretz@ikesg1.energietechnik.uni-stuttgart.de\n} \n} Very simple. You have to have the MOUSE.COM or MOUSE.SYS loaded in DOS\n} before you run Windows. Note that you don't need to have these files loaded\n} to use the mouse in Windows.\n\n\n... and you need a video driver which is completely Windows 3.1 compatible, and\nyour mouse driver has to be completely compatible as well. Not quite so simple.\n(I never could get my logitech mouse to work 100% in a DOS window with my\nold Paradise card: now I have a Diamond SS24X and the 6.2 mouse drivers, and\neverything works perfectly).", "\n\tHas anyone used DCE threads with an X Client?\n\tIs it possible to have one thread listening for incoming RPCs\n\twhile another processes X Events? How do you set something\n\tlike this up?\n\t\t\t\t\t_ Atul\n\t\t\t\t\t(apara@ctp.com)\n\n\t\t\t\t\n", ": \n: >I have a Microsoft Serial Mouse and am using mouse.com 8.00 (was using 8.20 \n: >I think, but switched to 8.00 to see if it was any better). Vertical motion \n: >is nice and smooth, but horizontal motion is so bad I sometimes can't click \n: >on something because my mouse jumps around. I can be moving the mouse to \n: >the right with relatively uniform motion and the mouse will move smoothly \n: >for a bit, then jump to the right, then move smoothly for a bit then jump \n: >again (maybe this time to the left about .5 inch!). This is crazy! I have \n: >never had so much trouble with a mouse before. Anyone have any solutions?\n\nHere is another hint:\n\n\tI have a really jumping mouse (ps2 type), and finally the mouse\nstops jump changing HIMEM.SYS (yes, himem!), is you use:\n\nDEVICE=HIMEM.SYS /M:x\n\nx can be 1,2,...,8 (Of course my computer DON'T appear on the list for\nthese parameter)\n\n And maybe, your mouse can stop jump... (But your problem looks more\nlike a dirty mouse ;)...\n\n\tHope it help (to anybody!)", "In the next few months I am intending to build a 386 or 486 PC system\nfor remote monitoring. I would welcome any comments or advice you may\nhave on the choice of motherboard, HDDs and I/O boards. Recommendations\nfor good companies selling these would be a big help.\n\nMany thanks,\n\nPeter Green.\n\n", "I'm new to the hardware and with a mandate to port some X-based\nstereo-video software --- does anyone know of or have experience with\nX on Amiga machines? If I can retain the X event handling, it would\nease my plight considerably, and if I can keep all the Motif bits, so\nmuch the better!\n\n", "\n\nNoooooooo! I've been servicing Macs for years too, and I've had to\nrepair a number of motherboards that had been damaged this way. It's\nrare, but it does happen.\n\nMind you, this doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. The parts that can\nblow (the ADB power fuse and RF filter) aren't too expensive, so IF you\nhave a someone around who can do component-level repair, it may be worth\nthe risk (especially if you're around Seattle, 'cause you might get to\npay *me* to fix it :-)).. On the other hand, if your only repair option\nis the Apple-standard logic board swap (major $$$$), you should probably\nplay it safe.\n\n\nSCSI: yes, ADB: yes, Floppies: yes... They can all cause trouble.\n", "Time once again to clean out the ol' closet. Some stuff is up for offers, some\nisn't. Please read carefully.\n\n\nIn the MAKE OFFER department:\n\n\tWordPerfect 5.0, upgrade copy. Includes all disks and all upgrade\n\tmanuals. Best offer.\n\n\tBalance of Power, 1992 edition, for the Amiga. With manual and reg.\n\tcard. Best offer.\n\n\nIn the FOR SALE department:\n\n\tTechnics model 715 auto-reverse open-reel STEREO tape deck. Because\n\tit's auto-reverse, this deck records onto tape just like a cassette\n\tdeck does, so it's not very good for splice-type editing. However,\n\tI have used it effectively in \"tape studio\" applications for mastering,\n\tand it works great. 3.75 and 7.5 ips speeds, supports up to 7\" reels.\n\tDual lighted VU meters with record indicators. Full auto-reverse\n\tcapable (and the mechanism works, too!). Adjustable sound on sound,\n\tand socket for remote control (I don't know where you'd find one, but\n\tthey used to make 'em), plus a 110VAC unswitched outlet. This unit\n\tis in excellent condition and I have had it rebuilt once since I got\n\tit--works perfectly.\n\n\tPrice: $225.00 or best offer, or possible trade (see below).\n\n\n\tPanasonic KX-P1624 printer. 24-pin with 360x360dpi resolution in both\n\ttext and graphics modes. Warranty cards, manuals, all the usual stuff\n\tyou expect when buying like-new merchandise. I'm selling it because I\n\tnow have a better printer. This is the wide carriage version of the\n\tKX-P1124, by the way. Test prints are available upon request.\n\n\tPrice: $250.00 o.b.o. or trade.\n\n\n\tExcalibur custom pool cue. 19 oz., 13 mm, brass joint, Irish linen\n\twrap, could use a new tip but will hold up for a while. I've got too\n\tmany cues as it is, and don't need this one. Hits nicely, is very\n\tstraight and in excellent condition.\n\n\tPrice: $125.00 o.b.o. or trade. Imperial hard case (1 butt/1 shaft)\n\tavailable for an additional $40.00.\n\n\nTRADES: I need the following things, and I have no cash of my own right now,\nso if you want to trade, it needs to be straight-across. The list:\n\n\tAmiga ROM upgrade to at LEAST 2.04, preferably 2.1+, with appropriate\n\tDOS and Workbench.\n\n\t1 meg Agnus chip for the Amiga.\n\n\tAmiga hard drive and controller (preferably SCSI).\n\n\tIBM-compatible hard drive (and controller if not MFM). This one's \n\ttouchy, as I have a full-height and don't have room for more unless\n\tI swap out--needs to be above 100M, and I will consider trading a\n\tgood ST-4096 in the deal.\n\n\tIntel 9600EX or 14.4EX or similar EXTERNAL high-speed modem.\n", "Hi\nCould someone please send me enough info to talk to a MK3801? It's some\nkind of multifunction peripheral chip made by Mostek I believe. Any help\nwould be GREATLY appreciated! Thanks in advance\n\nDave\n", "Hello\n\tI recently accelerated my Mac Plus (MicroMac 25MHz accelerator) \nand now I can't get my Mac to boot off of the hard disk. It boots fine \nfrom a floppy, and I can mount the hard disk using SCSI probe, but I \ncannot get it to boot from the hard drive. I installed a new driver, so I \ndon't think that is the problem. \n\tThis poses a rather large problem. I only have 4 Meg of RAM, and \nI need to run Mathematica, which requires 5 Meg. I was hoping to use \nsystem 7 virtual memory so that I could run Mathematica. However, I can't \nrun system 7 from a floppy, so I can't get enough RAM. \n\tAny suggestions? Thanks for your time--\n\t\t\t\t\t\tChrisw@yang.earlham.edu\n", "\nYep, you can use any type of UNIX, or maybe VMS, or buy a MAC or something...\n If you want longer filenames for your documents, I heard of a wordprocessor for\nwindows which let you assign long names to files. Those long filenames could only be\nseen from that programs open/save dialogs though... Maybe someone knows more about\nthis wordprocessor than I do?\n \n", "Hi Everyone ::\n\nI am looking for some software called SHADOW as \nfar as I know its a simple raytracer used in\nthe visualization of synchrotron beam lines.\nNow we have an old version of the program here\n,but unfortunately we don't have any documentation\nif anyone knows where I can get some docs, or\nmaybe a newer version of the program or even \nanother program that does the same sort of thing\nI would love to hear from you.\n\nPS I think SHADOW was written by a F Cerrina?\n\nAnyone any ideas?", "Are there any widgets, function \n\tlibrarys for drawing networks, \n\tgraphs etc ? (Not tree views) \n\tFreeware, shareware, comercial...\n\tLike this, for instance:\n \n O\n |\n |\n O---------O=======>O\n / \\ |\n / \\ |\n O----O.....O O\n / \\\n / \\ \n O O\n\n\t* Just by giving the associations \n\t between the nodes. Automatic\n\t layout generation.\n\n\t* It would be nice if any node \n\t symbols could be used. Maybe \n\t even to insert widgets as nodes.\n\n\t* Using different line styles etc.\n\t for describing associations.\n\n\tAny information would be appreciated,\n\tthanks in advance,", "I've got a probelm with printing envelops on my deskjet 550C from Word\nfor Windows.\n\nHistory: when I had a Deskjet 500, I had to modify the macro so that\nit would disable reverse printing since there seemed to be a bug that\ninterferred with printing envelops. That bug is still present, however...\n\nNow: the problem I have is that my DeskJet 550 print driver (came with\nthe printer I bought in December) still wants to print the envelops in\nPORTRAIT mode. However, the DeskJet 550 feeds envelops the from the\nnarrow end (i.e. landscape mode). How do I get the printer to print\nthe envelops in the correct orientation?\n\nPLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not post this to the net since:\n (a) due to end of the semester cruch, I can't keep up on these groups,\nand (b) I will summarize the best answer(s) to the net anyhow!", "\nHere in switzerland, the situation is exactly the same. The cable tv companies \neven tried to stop amateur radio in switzerland in the beginning of cable \ntv(they seem to be too stupid to know anything about international frequency \nconferences or so). Even today, they use the cheapest possible coax running \ninto problems they can't solve anymore. As Bill noted, the only way is to look \nfor a solution with the neighbours *BEFORE* calling for the cable tv guys or \nthe fcc. The chance to find neighbours with some sense for reason is by far \nbigger than with these people (especially the first ones). As anywhere in an \nadministration people don't like, if You tell them to work for the money they \nget...\nThe problem is, that radio amateurs don't have the power to put trough their \nrights in all cases. So let's hope they start soon with optical fibers and get \nout of our freqencies.\n\n\nCheers Robert (HB9NBY)", ":> :\n:> : Basically, the Mac Pluses are constantly rebooting themselves, as if the\n:> : reboot button were being pushed. Sometimes the Mac is able to fully boot\n:\n\nwell this threads been going long enough... I'll add a diferent twist.\n\nI found that the constant rebooting was due to overheating. We \nhad added 4Mb ram, and were operating in a non AC environment.\nAdding an external cooling fan fixed it right up. ( over a\nyear ago )\n\n", "\n\n\n[Deleted for space; basically complaints that xv is an 8 bit program and that\nmaking several modifications to the RGB sliders is slow because of screen updates.]\n\nIn reverse order:\n\n1) Try clicking in the auto-apply box to switch it off. Then make your mods. Then\nclick on apply. There is no problem as stated; it has already been solved if you\nlook carefully.\n\n2) Yes XV is an 8 bit program. This is not a bug. You can edit individual pallette\nentries or do global colour changes; crop, scale etc. Clearly the program must\nsave out the *altered* image else all your work would be thrown away. So yes it\nsaves out 8 bit images - of course!\n\nXV can import 24 bit images and quantises them down to 8 bits. This is a handy\nfacility, not a bug.\n\nHow would you suggest doing colour editing on a 24 bit file? How would you group\n'related' colours to edit them together? Only global changes could be done\nunless the software were very different and much more complicated.\n\nIf you want to do colour editing on a 24 bit image, you need much more powerfull\nsoftware - which is readily available commercially.\n\nAnd lastly, JPEG is a compression algorithm. It can be applied to any image of\narbitrary bit depth. Again, this is not a bug. It is a way of saving disk space\n;-)\n\nLater,\n\n--\nChris Lilley\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTechnical Author, ITTI Computer Graphics and Visualisation Training Project\nComputer Graphics Unit, Manchester Computing Centre, Oxford Road, \nManchester, UK. M13 9PL Internet: C.C.Lilley@mcc.ac.uk \nVoice: +44 (0)61 275 6045 Fax: +44 (0)61 275 6040 Janet: C.C.Lilley@uk.ac.mcc", "\nDos 5 never used the area $E000 - $EFFF, as well as some others. If you have \nany cards that use this are (such as a LAN card), you might get this \nproblem.", "\nThe kit is for an already existing Laserwriter IINTX. It is a ROM\nupgrade that replaces the font rasterizer code with the more\nefficient, speedier code that first became available in Adobe Type\nManager 1.0.\n\nThat software came out after the original NTXes and the so-called\nATM rasterizer is now standard on Postscript printers.", "I'm trying to bring in 8+ bits to a PC, and would like\n\tto use interrupt-driven routines. Without buying an IO\n\tboard or making a new port, _where_ can I bring in these\n\tbits? LPT seems to have only a few inputs, but I've heard\n\trumours that some LPTs have bidirectional lines. Anybody\n\tknow fer sure? If any bi-d LPTs, which boards have them\n\t(I'll be running a new 386DX-33)?\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------\nAlan Erickson erickson@baltic.nmt.edu\t\t\n\nto all SunRayce '93 competitors: I hope you're getting\nabout as much sleep as I am.....", "Mornin' all. I was wonderin'.....\nI got screenpeace (the screensaver, which I think is *very*\ngood), and I got a problem with it...\nThere is an option there, \"realize colour table\", and if it's\nswitched on, some wallpapers' colours will get *ucked up with\nsome screensavers (e.g. the \"flashlight\" one). If I turn it off,\nhowever, it works well, and it's faster, so I have it off. All's\nnice and well. However, If I turn it off, then it will be on\nagain next time I start windows. All the setting are set in the\nwin.ini file, and I *do* have \"save settings on exit\" selected.\n\nalso, I tried manually changing the setting in the win.ini file\nto \"n\" (for no-->realize colour table), and started windows. It\nwill be fine for that session, but the next session will *again*\nturn the option on.\n\nI tried adding a +R (read-only) attribute to my win.ini file, and\nit worked, but my bitmap (wallpaper) saver didn't work then.\nActually, it's the same application. Anywya, it didn't work,\nsince it must change the setting at the win.ini file.\n\nso anyone out there got any answers/suggesions/comments for me?\n\nthanks, i.a.\n\nMickey\naka mp", ": >>\n: >>Dear friend,\n: >> The RISC means \"reduced instruction set computer\". The RISC usually has \n: >>small instruction set so as to reduce the circuit complex and can increase \n: >>the clock rate to have a high performance. You can read some books about\n: >>computer architecture for more information about RISC.\n: >\n: >hmm... not that I am an authority on RISC ;-) but I clearly remember\n: >reading that the instruction set on RISC CPUs is rather large.\n: >The difference is in addressing modes - RISC instruction sets are not\n: >as orthogonal is CISC.\n\nThe original RISCs had small instruction sets, and simple ones. The\nidea was that a) every instruction should be completable in a single\nclock cycle and b) to have no microcode and c) extensive pipelines.\n\nA few comparisons (from Patterson: Reduced Instruction set computers.\nCACM V28. 1, 1985):\n\nCPU\t\tYear\tInstructions\tMicrocode\n---\t\t----\t------------\t---------\nIBM 370/168\t1973\t208\t\t420Kb\nDEC VAX 11/780\t1978\t303\t\t480Kb\nIBM 801\t\t1980\t120\t\t0\nUCB RISC 1\t1982\t39\t\t0\nStanford MIPS\t1983\t55\t\t0\n\nWhile researching for the VLSI VAX, DEC discovered that 60% of the VAX\nmicrocode is there to support 20% of the instruction set which\naccounted for a mere 0.2% of all instructions executed. The uVAX 32\nsubsetted the architecture onto a single chip and used a software\nemulator for these very complex instructions, the full VLSI uVAX\nincluded the entire instruction set, was 5-10 times more copmlex but\nonly ranm 20% faster.\n\nCPU\t\tChips\tMicrocode\tTransistors\n---\t\t-----\t---------\t-----------\nuVAX 32\t\t2\t64K\t\t101K\nVLSI uVAX\t9\t480K\t\t1250K\n", "Apparently, my editor didn't do what I wanted it to do, so I'll try again.\n\ni'm looking for any programs or code to do simple animation and/or\ndrawing using fractals in TurboPascal for an IBM\n Thanks in advance", "Yes I am aware CorelDraw exports in SCODAL.\nVersion 2 did it quite well, apart from a\nfew hassles with radial fills. Version 3 RevB\nis better but if you try to export in SCODAL\nwith a bitmap image included in the drawing\nit will say something like \"cannot export\nSCODAL with bitmap\"- at least it does on my\nversion.\n If anyone out there knows a way around this\nI am all ears.\n Temporal images make a product called Filmpak\nwhich converts Autocad plots to SCODAL, postscript\nto SCODAL and now GIF to SCODAL but it costs $650\nand I was just wondering if there was anything out\nthere that just did the bitmap to SCODAL part a tad\ncheaper.", "\nI use it all day every day (maintaining our ftp site and answering mail\nvia support@qdeck.com), and I can honestly say that in the last few\nmonths I've never had my machine go down due to any sort of tcpip network\nmanager instability. (Of course, I've crashed my machine quite a few times\non purpose, during beta testing and that sort of thing, but the tcpip\nportion is quite stable...)\n\nHowever, keep in mind that DVX and the network managers are only going\nto be as stable as the software they sit on top of (so if your underlying\nnetwork kernel is flakey, you can't expect DVX to be terribly stable...)\n\n\nIt just goes as a window that has graphics drawn into it. (To vastly\nover-simplify what goes on, we just take the windows graphics API calls,\nand translate them directly to X-protocol; unfortunately, windows was\nnot really written to be network-aware, so sometimes we see a speed\npenalty when an app does something stupid, like sending a big white bitmap\nto erase something rather than just drawing a white box; fortunately,\nthat sort of thing is rare...)\n\n\nYou need to run MS windows, which Word then runs inside. You could run\nmultiple windows programs within the one WinX window, and windows has\nways to automagically start winapps when you start windows, so in practice\nit's not really a major problem. I have my system set up so that I can\nrun WinX, which automatically starts Word Full-screen (for windows), so\nI never see any part of windows but word...)\n", "\nI can wait 'cos I've already got an accelerated card. It does 1280x1024 but\nonly 16 colour. You may mock me, but such cards will be here quickly enough.\n\n\nI only wait when the difference between my current system and the new stuff\nis big enough to warrant changing. For instance, I'll be upgrading my 486 33\nto a 486DX-2 66 EISA, VLB board RSN. The performance difference (under Linux)\nis great enough to be worthwhile. At the same time I'll be buying a new\ngraphic card and new SCSI controller. I'll be buying an S3 card 'cos they're\nfast enough, I have X11 drivers for them and it'll have 2MB VRAM just like\na Weitek 9000 card. It will also be MUCH cheaper. When affordable 4MB cards\narrive, I'll buy one.\n\n\nOver the last year I've done much the same. But now I need a 19\" monitor, more\nmemory (20MB just ain't enough), a GB disk (1.2GB and no space left...). Oh\nwell, stay single, don't smoke and you may afford it this year ;-)\n", "Our group is interested in using a 'pixmap' format for multi-colored\nicons/buttons etc that is easily converted to and from other format from\n'resource' files. Using pbmplus we can easily move to/from Xpm to our other\nenvironments of MS-Windows and OS/2 PM :-(. We were wondering if Xpm or some\nother format is under consideration to be used as a standard by the X\nconsortium for R6 as we would prefer to use whatever will be best supported by\nX. \n\nAlong the same subject line, is the reason the standard X pixmap is not used\nbecause it doesn't have an associated colormap and other attributes? or is it\nmore involved? just wondering why there aren't editors for pixmaps out there\nfor the 'original' format.\n\nEmail replies preferred. Thanks in advance.", "I used the information provided in the recent resource listings and\ntried to ftp to:\n\nccu1.aukland.ac.nz [130.216.1.5]: ftp/mac/architec - *VISION-3D facet\n\nand received an 'unknown host' message.\n\nmail to Paul D. Bourke (pdbourke@ccu1.aukland.ac.nz) bounces with basically\nthe same problem.\n\nWhere'd he go????\n\nRick\n\n \n", "Hello,\n\nI'am almost ashame to ask this question. It really looks like a FAQ, but couldn't\nfind the answer. Anyway...\n\nThe original IBM-PC/XT 83 or 84 key keyboard is, in my opinion, still the best\nkeyboard around. Function keys on the right place (eh.. left place), firm click,\netc. Is there any chance to connect one of these to a modern 386 AT clone?\n\nI do understand that the new AT keyboard has more functionality. I.e. the\ntypematic repeat rate is programmable etc. It seams to me that the pins &\nelectrical specs. of the old and the new keyboard are, however, the same. \nMaybe the communication protocol is different? \n\nPlease answer by e-mail. Also if you can tell me that is absolutely impossible.\nIn that case, i will bring the keyboard the museum of obsolete technology.\n\nThanks,\n\nDuco\n\n--", "\n\nI too would be interested in ANY information on the subject of programing\nPALS etc.....\n\n Better to know what your on about before you start something, I always\nsay. Often saves you a packet as well !!\n\nThanks in advance..\n\nChris ;-)\n\n +====================================================================+\n |Name : Mr Chris Smith | Twang on that 'ole guitar ! |\n |Addrs: scst83@uk.ac.liv | |\n |Uni : Liverpool University |Quest: To build more and more hardware |\n |Dgree: Computer Science | |\n +====================================================================+\n\n \"What ever the Sun may be, it is certainly not a ball of flaming gas!\"\n -- D.H. Lawrence.", "Archive-name: x-faq/part4\nLast-modified: 1993/04/04\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 80)! Where can I get an X-based plotting program?\n\nThese usually are available from uucp sites such as uunet or other sites as\nmarked; please consult the archie server to find more recent versions.\n\n gnuplot\tX (xplot), PostScript and a bunch of other drivers.\n\texport.lcs.mit.edu [and elsewhere]:contrib/gnuplot3.1.tar.Z\n\n gl_plot\tX output only [?]\n\tcomp.sources.unix/volume18\n\n graph+\n\tyallara.cs.rmit.oz.au:/pub/graph+.tar.Z [131.170.24.42]\n\tcomp.sources.unix/volume8\n\n pdraw,drawplot\t\t2D and 3D X,PS\n\tscam.berkeley.edu:/src/local/3dplot.tar.Z [128.32.138.1]\n\tscam.berkeley.edu:/src/local/contour.tar.Z [128.32.138.1]\n\tscam.berkeley.edu:/src/local/drawplot.tar.Z [128.32.138.1]\n\tuunet:~ftp/contrib/drawplot.tar.Z\n\n xgraph\t\tplot, zoom. Outputs PS or HPGL.\n\tshambhala.berkeley.edu:/pub/xgraph-11.tar.Z [128.32.132.54]\n\tsun1.ruf.uni-freiburg.de:X11/contrib/xgraph-11.tar.Z [132.230.1.1]\n\tnisc.jvnc.net:pub/xgraph-11.tar.Z [128.121.50.7]\n\tcomp.sources.x/volume3\n\tor many other sites \n\n ACE/gr (formerly xvgr and xmgr) XY plotting tools\n\tftp.ccalmr.ogi.edu [129.95.72.34]\n\tXView version: /CCALMR/pub/acegr/xvgr-2.09.tar.Z\n\tMotif version: /CCALMR/pub/acegr/xmgr-2.09.tar.Z\n\t[mirrored on export in /contrib/acegr]\n\n XGobi\t\tAn interactive dynamic scatter-plotting tool from Bellcore\n\tlib.stat.cmu.edu: general/xgobi* [log in as statlib with your email\n\tas the password; or send email to statlib@lib.stat.cmu.edu containing\n\tthe one-line message \"send xgobi from general\"]\n\tInformation from: Debby Swayne, dfs@bellcore.com.\n\n Robot\t\ta scientific XView-based graph plotting and data analysis tool\n\tftp.astro.psu.edu:pub/astrod/robotx0.46.tar.Z [128.118.147.28]\n\n plotmtv\ta multi-purpose 2D/3D plotter\n\ttanqueray.berkeley.edu:/pub/Plotmtv1.3.1.tar.Z\n\t\n\n[2/91. Thanks in part to: emv@ox.com (Ed Vielmetti); geoff@Veritas.COM \n(Geoffrey Leach); Paul A. Scowen (uk1@spacsun.rice.edu); black@beno.CSS.GOV \n(Mike Black)]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 81) Where can I get an X-based spreadsheet?\n\nA version of \"sc\" for X and which supports Lotus files is available from\nvernam.cs.uwm.edu in xspread2.0.tar.Z. It also includes graphing functions.\nInformation: soft-eng@cs.uwm.edu.\n\nThe GNU package OLEO is available in prep.ai.mit.edu:pub/gnu/oleo-1.2.2.tar.Z;\nit can generate PostScript renditions of spreadsheets.\n\nAlso:\n\nSeveral of the below are part of integrated office-productivity tools which may\nalso include word-processing, email, conferencing, image processing, and \ndrawing/painting, among other features.\n\nVendor Product Contact Information \n------ ------- -------------------\nAccess Technology 20/20 508-655-9191\nInformix WingZ 800-331-1763\nQuality Software Products Q-Calc/eXclaim 800-628-3999 (CA:213-410-0303) \nUnipress Q-Calc 201-985-8000\nUniplex Uniplex 214-717-0068, 800-356-8063\nDigital\t\t\t DECdecision 1-800-DIGITAL\nApplix\t\t\t Aster*x\t 508-870-0300, 1-800-8APPLIX.\nAIS\t\t\t XESS\t 919-942-7801, info@ais.com\nBBN Software Products BBN/Slate 617-873-5000 slate-offer@bbn.com\nElsid Software Systems\t Ripcam\t 613-228-9468\n\nSAS by the SAS Institute now has a spreadsheet module; the X version is\navailable on the current popular RISC platforms.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 82) Where can I get X-based project-management software?\n\nVendor \tProduct\t\tContact Information \n------\t\t\t\t-------\t\t-------------------\nProductivity Solutions\t\tUltra Planner\t617-237-1600\nQuality Software Products \tMasterPlan Version, 310-410-0303 sales@qsp.com\nDigital Tools, Inc.\t\tAutoPLAN\t408-366-6920, 800-755-0065\nNASA\t\t\t\tCOMPASS\t\t404-542-3265,\n\t\t\t\t\t\tservice@cossack.cosmic.uga.edu\nGEC-Marconi Software Systems\tGECOMO Plus\t703-648-1551\nGEC-Marconi Software Systems\tSIZE Plus\t703-648-1551\nTEI, Inc\t\t\tVUE\t\t408-985-7100\nMantix\t\t\t\tCascade\t\t703-506-8833\nAdvanced Management Solutions\tSchedule Publisher\t800-397-6829\nAuburn University\t\t??\t\t??\n\n[thanks to Pete Phillips (pete@egh-qc.co.uk); 7/92]\n[thanks to Atul Chhabra (atul@nynexst.com); 10/92]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 83) Where can I get an X-based PostScript previewer?\n\n\tGhostscript is distributed by the Free Software Foundation \n(617-876-3296) and includes a PostScript interpreter and a library of graphics\nprimitives. Version 2.5.2 is now available; the major site is prep.ai.mit.edu. \n[11/92] \n\n\tGSPreview (by the Computing Laboratory of the University of Kent at \nCanterbury) is an X user interface (WCL-based) to the Ghostscript 2.4[.1]\ninterpreter [5/92]. The source is available for anonymous ftp from \nexport.lcs.mit.edu as gspreview.2.0.tar.Z.\n\n\tGhostview (by Tim Theisen, tim@cs.wisc.edu) is full-function user \ninterface for GhostScript. Check ftp.cs.wisc.edu or prep.ai.mit.edu for \n/pub/ghostview-1.4.1.tar.Z [1/93]. There are also several executables available\non ftp.cs.wisc.edu:/pub/X/ghostview-exe for various architectures.\n\nAlso:\n\n\tScriptWorks is Harlequin's software package for previewing and printing\nPostScript(R) descriptions of text and graphics images; previewers for X are \navailable. For information call +44-223-872522 or send email to \nscriptworks-request@harlqn.co.uk.\n\n\tImage Network's Xps supports the full PostScript language and renders\nin color, grayscale, or monochrome. Fonts displayed are anti-aliased. Info:\nImage Network, +1 415 967 0542.\n\n\tDigital's dxpsview runs on UWS 2.1 and 2.2.\n\n\tSun's pageview runs with the X11/NeWS server. \n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 84) Where can I get an X-based GKS package?\n\n\tThe latest freely-available XGKS can be obtained from \nxgks-request@unidata.ucar.edu; this is a 2c implementation derived from the \nX11R4 contrib XGKS from IBM and the University of Illinois. The release\nis on unidata.ucar.edu [128.117.140.3] as pub/xgks.tar.Z. [12/90]\n\tIn addition, Grafpak-GKS is available from Advanced Technology Center\n(714-583-9119).\n\tGKSUL is available from gks@ulowell.edu (ULowell CS department). It is\na 2b implementation which includes drivers for a variety of devices. It can be \npassed an X window ID to use. The package includes both C and Fortran bindings.\n\n[11/90; from dsrand@mitre.org and from stew@hanauma.stanford.edu]\n\n\tAn XgksWidget is produced by Neil Bowers (neilb@leeds.dcs; \nneilb@dcs.leeds.ac.uk); the latest [10/91] conforms with the new version of \nXGKS (2.4). It is available on export in contrib/xgks-widget.tar.Z. \n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 85) Where can I get an X-based PEX package?\n\n\tThe first official release of PEX is with X11R5; fix-22 brings the\nSample Implementation server to version 5.1.\n\n\tThe final PEX 5.1 Protocol specification is now available via anonymous\nftp to export.lcs.mit.edu (18.24.0.12), in the directory /pub/DOCS/PEX/. \nChanges made from the Public Review draft are listed in the file \"5.1P_changes\"\nin that directory. [9/92]\n\n\tThe final PEXlib 5.1 document is on export in pub/DOCS/PEXlib. [11/92]\n\n\tThere is now available from the University of Illinois an \nimplementation of the PEX 4.0 specification called UIPEX. It contains a \"near-\ncomplete\" implementation of PHiGS and PHiGS PLUS. The file \npub/uipex/uipex.tar.Z is on a.cs.uiuc.edu (128.174.252.1); the porting platform\nwas an RT running 4.3. Questions and comments can to go uipex@cs.uiuc.edu. \n\n\tIn addition, the PEXt toolkit by Rich Thomson (rthomson@dsd.es.com) is \navailable on export as PEXt.tar.Z; it includes a PEX widget making it easier to\ninclude PEX in Xt-based programs.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 86) Where can I get an X-based TeX or DVI previewer?\n\n\tThe xtex previewer for TeX files is available from a number of archive \nsites, including uunet; the current version is usually on ftp.cs.colorado.edu\n(128.138.204.31) in SeeTeX-2.18.5.tar.Z; pre-converted fonts are also on that \nmachine. The distribution all includes \"mftobdf\" which converts PK, GF, and PXL\nfonts to BDF format, where they can then be compiled for use by your local X\nserver. \n\tThe xdvi dvi-previewer is fairly comprehensive and easy to use. It is \nalso available from a number of sites, including uunet and export.lcs.mit.edu;\ncurrent version is patchlevel 16 [12/92].\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 87) Where can I get an X-based troff previewer?\n\n\tX11R4 has two previewers for device-independent troff: the supported \nclient xditview, and the contributed-but-well-maintained xtroff. An earlier \nversion of xtroff also appeared on the R3 contributed source. xditview is also\nin the R5 distribution.\n\tIn addition, the xman client can be used to preview troff documents\nwhich use the -man macros (i.e. man pages).\n\tIf psroff is used its output can be viewed with a PostScript previewer.\n\nIn addition:\n\n\txproof, an X previewer for ditroff has been contributed by Marvin \nSolomon (solomon@cs.wisc.edu); version 3.5 is available on export in \ncontrib/xproof*. \t[8/90]\n\n\tElan Computer Group (CA: 415-964-2200) produces eroff, a modified \ntroff implementation, and Elan/Express, an X11 eroff previewer.\n\n\tSoftQuad (416-963-8337; USA only 800-387-2777, mail@sq.uu.net or\nmail@sq.com) offers SoftQuad Publishing Software, including a substantially-\nrewritten troff formatter, a better intermediate language with backwards \ncompatibility, and an X11[R3,R4] previewer. (This is the package adopted by \nAT&T's own MIS department, and used in and re-sold by many parts of AT&T). \n[information from Ian Darwin, SoftQuad (ian@sq.com) 3/90]\n\n\tImage Network (1-800-TOXROFF; CA: 415-967-0542) offers the Xroff \npackage, which includes a fine modified troff implementation and a set of \nX11-based page previewers. (This is the package OEM'ed by several hardware \nvendors.)\n\n[mostly courtesy moraes@cs.toronto.edu (Mark Moraes)] [2/90]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 88)! Where can I get a WYSIWYG interface builder?\n\n\tA new release of the DIRT interface builder by Richard Hesketh works \nwith X11R5 and includes some support for the Motif widget set. From the README:\n This builder allows the interactive creation and rapid prototyping of X user\n interfaces using the X Toolkit and a number of Widget Sets. Dirt generates\n \"Wc - Widget Creation\" resource files and this distribution also includes the\n Widget Creation Library (version 1.06, with the exception of the demos and\n Mri/Ari source code) with the kind permission of its author David E. Smyth.\nCheck dirt.README, dirt.A2.0.tar.Z, and dirt.PS.Z on export.lcs.mit.edu.\n\n\tThe InterViews 3.0.1 C++ toolkit contains a WYSIWIG interface builder \ncalled ibuild. ibuild generates code for an InterViews application complete \nwith Imakefile and an X-resource file. Documentation is /pub/papers/ibuild.ps \non interviews.stanford.edu (36.22.0.175).\n\tQuest Windows's (408-496-1900) ObjectViews C++ package includes an\ninteractive building tool. \n\n\tDruid (Demonstrational Rapid User Interface Development) runs on SPARC \nmachines using OSF/Motif 1.0; it is intended eventually to be a full UIMS but \napparently now has only support for creating the presentation components, for \nwhich it generates C/UIL code. Info: Singh G, Kok CH, Ngan TY, \"Druid: A System\nfor Demonstrational Rapid User Interface Development\". Proc. ACM SIGGRAPH Symp \non User Interface Software and Technology (UIST'90). ACM, NY, 1990, pp:167-177.\n\n\tThe BYO interface builder is implemented in tcl.\n\nAlso:\n\tIn addition, these commercial products (unsorted) are available in \nfinal or prerelease form [the * following the product name indicates that the \nproduct is known to allow the designer to specify for each widget whether a \nparticular resource is hard-coded or written to an application defaults file,\nfor at least one form of output]. Some are much more than user-interface tools;\nsome are full user interface management systems; information on most is not\nup-to-date:\n\nProduct Name\t\tLook/Feel\tCode Output\t\tVendor\n\nHP Interface\t\tMotif 1.1\tC(Xm)\t\t\tHP/Visual Edge\n Architect/ UIMX\t\nOPEN LOOK Express\tOPEN LOOK\tC(Xol+ helper lib)\tAT&T /\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tVisual Edge\nUIMX 2.0 *\t\tMotif 1.1\tC(Xm + helper code)\tVisual Edge\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t514-332-6430\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t& distributors\nVUIT 2.0\t\tMotif 1.1\tC/UIL[r/w]\t\tDEC \n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t(1-800-DIGITAL)\nX-Designer 1.1 *\tMotif 1.1\tC(Xm); C/UIL\t\tImperial\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tSoftware\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tTechnology, Ltd\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t (+44 734 587055)\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tsales@ist.co.uk\nXFaceMaker2 (XFM2) * \tMotif 1.0\tC;C/script (C-like procedural \n\t\t\t\t\tlanguage);C/UIL\n\t\t\t\t\t \t\t\tNSL \n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t(33 1 43 36 77 50)\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\trequests@nsl.fr\nBuilder Xcessory 2.0 *\tMotif 1.1\tC(Xm); C/UIL[r/w]\tICS \n\t\t\t\t\tAda\t\t\t(617-621-0060)\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tinfo@ics.com\nXBUILD 1.1 *\t\tMotif 1.0\tC(Xm); C/UIL \t\tNixdorf\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t(617-864-0066)\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\txbuild@nixdorf.com\niXBUILD\t\t\tMotif 1.1\tC(Xm); C/UIL\t\tiXOS Software\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tkarl@ixos.uucp\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t089/461005-69\nTeleUSE 2.1 *\t\tMotif 1.1.5\tC(Xm); C/UIL[r/w]\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tTelesoft\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t(619-457-2700)\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tgui_info@telesoft.com\nezX 3.2\t\t\tMotif 1.1\tC(Xm +helper lib);C/UIL;Ada\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tSunrise\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t(401-847-7868)\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t info@sunrise.com\nSnapix\t\t\tMotif\t\tC/Xm\t\t\tADNT\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t+33 1 3956 5333\nOpenWindows Developers\tOPEN LOOK \tGIL [-> C/XView]\tSun\nGuide 3.0\t\t\t\tGIL [-> C++/XView]\n\t\t\t\t\tGIL [-> C/OLIT]\n\t\t\t\t\tGIL [-> C/PostScript for TNT]\nExoCode/SXM\t\tMotif\t\tC(Xm)\t\t\tExpert Object\nExoCode/Plus\t\tOPEN LOOK\tXView\t\t\t708-676-5555\nTAE+\t\t\tXw;Motif\tC(Xw,Xm); C/TCL (TAE Control Language,\n\t\t\t\t\tlike UIL[needs helper library]);\n\t\t\t\t\tVAX Fortran; Ada; C++\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tNasa Goddard\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t(301) 286-6034\nMOB, XSculptor\t\t\tMotif; OpenLook\tC/Xm,UIL; C/Xol\t\tKovi\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t408-982-3840\nPSM\t\t\tPM, MSW 3.0,\tC/UIL\t\t\tLancorp\n\t\t\tMotif 1.1.2,Mac\t\t\t\tPty Ltd.\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t+61 3 629 4833\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tFax: 629 1296\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t(Australia)\nMOTIFATION\t\tMotif 1.0|1.1.2\tC(Xm)\t\t\tAKA EDV\n\t\t\t\t\t\t +49 (0) 234/33397-0\n\t\t\t\t\t\t +49 (0) 234/33397-40 fax\nUIB\t\t\tOpen Look/Motif\tC++(OI)\t\t\tParcPlace \n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t+1 303-678-4626\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\nLook for magazine reviews for more complete comparisons of meta-file formats,\ndocumentation, real ease-of-use, etc; Unix World and Unix Review often carry\narticles.\n\n\tIn addition, Neuron Data (1 415 321-4488) makes Open Interface, a \nwindow-system-independent object toolkit which supports interfaces which are \nor resemble (supersets of) Mac, Windows, and Motif and Open Look; the package \nincludes an interface builder.\n\n In addition, the GRAMMI builder supports the development of Ada/X \napplications using its own set of objects which are planned to have a Motif \nlook. GRAMMI is written in Ada and generates Ada specs and stub bodies. \n(1-800-GRAMMI-1).\n\n\tIn addition, these non-WYSIWYG but related products may help for goals \nof rapid prototyping of the application interface:\n\n\tWCL: the Widget Creation Library. Basically describes the widget\nhierarchy and actions in a resources file; available from fine archive servers\neverywhere, including devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (128.149.1.143) in pub/. Wcl provides\na very thin layer over Xt without any internal tweaking. Version 2.5 is current\n[3/93].\n\tWINTERP: an Xlisp-based Motif toolkit allows for interpretive \nprogramming. The copy on the R4 tape is outdated; get a copy off export or \nemail to winterp-source%hplnpm@hplabs.hp.com. \n\tThe Serpent UIMS permits the building of user-interfaces without \nspecific knowledge of coding but with an understanding of attributes being set\non a particular [Motif] widget. Beta Release 1.2 is available from \nftp.sei.cmu.edu (128.237.1.13) and can be found in /pub/serpent. Serpent is \nalso available on export.lcs.mit.edu (18.24.0.11) in /contrib/serpent. Email\nquestions can go to serpent@sei.cmu.edu. A commercial version of Serpent is\navailable as \"Agora\" from ASET, 221 Woodhaven Drive, Pittsburgh, PA 15228.\n\tGarnet is a Common Lisp-based GUI toolkit. Information is available \nfrom garnet@cs.cmu.edu.\n\tMetaCard is a hypertext/Rapid Application Development environment\nsimilar to Apple/Claris Corporation's HyperCard (info@metacard.com). MetaCard \nis available via anonymous FTP from ftp.metacard.com, csn.org, or \n128.138.213.21.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 89) Where can I find X tools callable from shell scripts?\nI want to have a shell script pop up menus and yes/no dialog boxes if the user \nis running X.\n\n\tSeveral tools in the R3 contrib/ area were developed to satisfy these\nneeds: yorn pops up a yes/no box, xmessage displays a string, etc. There are\nseveral versions of these tools; few, if any, have made it to the R4 contrib/ \narea, though they may still be available on various archive sites.\n\tIn addition, Richard Hesketh (rlh2@ukc.ac.uk) has posted the xmenu\npackage to comp.sources.x (\"v08i008: xmenu\") for 1-of-n choices. [7/90]\n\tTwo versions of XPrompt have been posted to comp.sources.x, the latter\nbeing an unauthorized rewrite. [R. Forsman (thoth@reef.cis.ufl.edu), 1/91]\n\tThere is a version of XMenu available from comp.sources.x; it is\nbeing worked on and will likely be re-released.\n\txp-1.1.tar.Z, xpick-1.0.tar.Z and xzap-1.0.tar.Z on export's contrib/\nare tools by Gerry.Tomlinson@newcastle.ac.UK which act as X versions of the \nsimple display and choice-making tools in K&P. [4/92]\n\txtpanel lets the user build a panel containing interactive objects such\nas buttons, sliders, text fields, etc., either from the command line or using a\nsimple scripting language. It is available for anonymous ftp from \nhanauma.Stanford.EDU (36.51.0.16) as pub/X/xtpanel.tar.Z and may also be found \nin the alt.sources archives.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 90) Where can I get an X-based debugger?\n\n\txdbx, an X interface to the dbx debugger, is available via ftp from \nexport. The current [1/91] version is 2.1 patchlevel 2.\n\tAn X interface to gdb called xxgdb is more like xdbx 2.1.2. It is part \nof comp.sources.x volume 11 [2/91]; xxgdb-1.06.tar.Z is on export.\n\tmxgdb is a Motif interface to gdb by Jim Tsillas \n(jtsillas@bubba.ma30.bull.com); version 1.1.5 was released 1/93.\n\tUPS is a source-level debugger which runs under the X11 and SunView\nwindow systems on Sun and DEC platforms. It is available from export \n(18.24.0.11) as contrib/ups-2.45.tar.Z (also ups-2.45-to-2.45.2.patch.Z)\nand unix.hensa.ac.uk (129.12.21.7) in /pub/misc/unix/ups (or try mail to \narchive@unix.hensa.ac.uk). [10/92] Unofficial fixes by Rod Armstrong \n(rod@sj.ate.slb.com) are on unix.hensa.ac.uk in \n/misc/unix/ups/contrib/rod@sj.ate.slb.com.\n\nAlso:\n\tMIPS produces a highly-customizable (WCL-based) Visual Debugger.\n\tYou should be able to use Sun's dbxtool with its X11/NeWS server.\n\tThe CodeCenter (617-498-3000) source-level debugger, available on most\nmajor platforms, includes an X-based interface.\n\tAT&T offers the eXamine Graphical Interface, an X11 interface to dbx\nand C++ dbx for Sun3 and Sun4 and sdb and sdb++ for 386 and 3B2 platforms. Call\n1-508-960-1997 or contact examine@mvuxi.att.com for more information.\n Solbourne (+1 303-678-4626) offers PDB, its X-based debugger for C, C++\nand Fortran. PDB uses the OI toolkit and runs in either Open Look or Motif \nmode. \n\tSCO (info@sco.com) offers dbXtra as part of several development \nsystems.\n Lucid's Energize Programming System, a tightly integrated development\nenvironment for C and C++ programs, incorporates a graphical user interface on\ntop of an extended version of gdb. Info: lucid-info@lucid.com, or\n(800) 223-9322.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 91)! How can I \"tee\" an X program identically to several displays?\n\n\tThere are several protocol multiplexer tools which provide for the \nsimultaneous display of X clients on any number of machines.\n\tXMX (an X Protocol Multiplexor) is available from wilma.cs.brown.edu \n(128.148.33.66) as pub/xmx.tar.Z It works independently of the server and does\nnot affect the application being shared; it was developed for use in the\nelectronic classroom.\n\tXTV is a conference program which can be used to duplicate the\n\"chalkboard\" on several displays. Release 1 is available on the X11R5 contrib\ntapes; a more recent version is on ftp.cs.odu.edu as pub/wahab/XTV.r2.tar.Z.\n\tSHX from Michael Altenhofen of Digital Equipment GmbH CEC Karlsruhe \nalso does this; it is a \"WYSIWIS\" (What You See Is What I See) package in the \ncontext of a computer-based learning/training tool to provide online help from\nremote tutors but is also useful for general window sharing. Information: \nshX@nestvx.enet.dec.com. SHX can be found on export and \n\t\tgatekeeper.dec.com:/pub/X11/contrib/shX.tar.Z, \n\t\tcrl.dec.com:/pub/X11/contrib/shX.tar.Z \nModifications to SHX for color mapping and private color allocation by\nMark J. Handley (M.Handley@cs.ucl.ac.uk) are on cs.ucl.ac.uk in \ncar/shX.car.tar.Z.\n\tXTrap is implemented as a server/library extension and can be used\nto record and then replay an x session. It is available as:\n\t\tgatekeeper.dec.com pub/X11/contrib/XTrap_v31.tar.Z\n\t\texport.lcs.mit.edu contrib/XTrap_v31.tar.Z\n\twscrawl can be used as a \"multi-person paint program\". It's available\non sax.stanford.edu as wscrawl.shar.Z.\n\tShdr implements a simple shared whiteboard, without a chalk-passing\nmechanism. It's available on parcftp.xerox.com as pub/europarc/shdr.tar.Z.\n\tSketchPad 1.0 (3/93) is a distributed interactive graphical editor \nparticularly designed for sketching. Sources have been posted to alt.sources\nand are available from ftp.igd.fhg.de (192.44.32.1) in ~ftp/incoming/sketchpad.\n\tThe NESTOR project is described in \"Upgrading A Window System For \nTutoring Functions\", Michael Altenhofen et al., the proceedings of the EXUG\nConference 11/90.\n\nAlso of use:\n Hewlett-Packard Co. has a commercial product, \"HP SharedX\" which works\nunder HP-UX currently on their 300, 400, and 700 series workstations and their\nHP 700/RX X Stations. Machines receiving shared windows can be any X server.\nHP SharedX consists of a server extensions and a Motif based user interface\nprocess. Contact your local HP sales rep. for more information.\n\tIBM offers a commercial product.\n\tSun offers multi-user confering software called ShowMe.\n\tInSoft (Mechanicsburg, PA, USA) offers multi-user confering software \ncalled Communique.\n\n[Thanks in part to scott@spectra.com (Tim Scott), 5/91, and to Peter Cigehn \n(peter@lulea.trab.se), 8/92 ]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 92) TOPIC: BUILDING THE X DISTRIBUTION [topic needs updating to R5]\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 93) What's a good source of information on configuring the X build?\n\n\tThis FAQ includes information on a number of \"gotchas\" that can bite \nyou on particular system. However, the best source of general information on \nbuilding the X11 release is found in the Release Notes. The file is bundled \nseparately from the rest of the release, so if it's become separated from your \nsources you can FTP another copy separately: the file RELNOTES.[ms,PS,TXT] at \nthe top of the distribution. The file RELNOTES is also available from the \nxstuff mail server.\n\tIn addition, O'Reilly & Associates's Volume 8 on X Administration\nincludes information on configuring and building X.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 94) Why doesn't my Sun with a cg6 work with R5?\n\n\tApparently gcc is the problem; it seems to produce fine code for all\nSun displays except for the cgsix. The new sunGX.o distributed with fix-07 \nmay fix the problem (note: not known to work on Solaris).\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 95) Why doesn't my Sun with SunOS 4.1 know about _dlsym, etc.?\n\n\tIf you get errors with _dlsym _dlopen _dlclose undefined, link with \nlibdl.a. Add \"-ldl\" to your and eventually your site.def. You may want to \nsurround it with \"-Bstatic -ldl -Bdynamic\" if you add it to the EXTRA_LIBRARIES\nvariable, since \"syslibs\" get added after EXTRA_LIBRARIES on the eventual \ncompilation command; otherwise you may not have a shared libdl. (Or compile \nthe stubs shared.)\n\n[thanks to Joe Backo (joe.backo@East.Sun.COM), 12/91]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 96) What is this strange problem building X clients on SunOS 4.1.2?\n\n\tIn SunOS 4.1.2 Sun fixed a shared-library bug in ld which conflicts\nwith the way X11R4 builds the shared Xmu library, causing these symbols to be\nundefined when building some X11 clients: \n\t_get_wmShellWidgetClass\n\t_get_applicationShellWidgetClass\nCompiling \"-Bstatic -lXmu -Bdynamic\" appears to work. \n\nTo solve the problem if you are using OpenWindows 3.0 (X11R4-based Xt), please \ncontact your local Sun office and request the following patches:\n\nPatch i.d. Description\n100512-02 4.1.x OpenWindows 3.0 libXt Jumbo patch\n100573-03 4.1.x OpenWindows 3.0 undefined symbols when using\n shared libXmu\n\n[Greg Earle, earle@Sun.COM; 7/92] \n\nA source patch for use with the MIT X11R4 libraries was developed by Conrad \nKimball (cek@sdc.boeing.com); it retrofits into R4 some fixes made in R5 to\nget around this problem. The patch is on export in [1/93]\n\tcontrib/X11R4_sunos4.1.2_patch_version3.Z\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 97) Why can't gcc compile X11R4 on my SPARC?\nI used gcc to compile the whole distribution, but I get several segmentation\nfaults when running X.\n\n\tNote first that gcc on RISC machines does not necessarily result in\nany performance increase; it certainly is not as noticeable as it is on the\n680x0 or VAX platforms.\n\n\tHere is the problem: gcc and cc use incompatible methods of passing \nstructures as arguments and returning them as function values, so when \ngcc-compiled parts of X are linked with Sun-supplied functions that pass or \nreturn structs, run-time errors occur. Affected programs include rgb and \nthe server.\n\n\tThis is from the GCC manual:\n\n\tOn the Sparc, GNU CC uses an incompatible calling convention for \n\tstructures. It passes them by including their contents in the argument\n\tlist, whereas the standard compiler passes them effectively by \n\treference.\n\n\tThis really ought to be fixed, but such calling conventions are not yet\n\tsupported in GNU CC, so it isn't straightforward to fix it.\n\n\tThe convention for structure returning is also incompatible, and\n\t`-fpcc-struct-return' does not help.\n\nYou can duck the problem either by using cc throughout or by using it for just\nthe routines which cause incompatibilities; the problem cannot be solved with \ncompilation flags. \n\n\tFiles which need to be compiled using cc include:\n\t\tserver/os/4.2bsd/oscolor.c \n\t\trgb/rgb.c\n\n\tIn addition, several of the \"inet_\" functions use structs as args or\nreturn values: \n\t\tclients/xhost/xhost.c \n\t\tclients/xauth/gethost.c. \nCalls to inet_addr in /lib/CLX/socket.c and lib/X/XConnDis.c are possibly \nharmless as they don't involve structs.\n\n[collected by bashford@scripps.edu (Don Bashford); 8/90]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 98) What are these I/O errors running X built with gcc?\nWhen I try to run xinit or the Xsun server I get the error \n\t\"Getting interface configuration: Operation not supported on socket. \n\tFatal server bug! no screens found.\"\n\n\tRunning the gcc fixincludes script apparently didn't work. You can do \nthis simple test:\n\n\t#include \n\tSIOCGIFCONF\n\nRun that through cc -E and gcc -E. The last line of output is the piece of \ninterest; it should be identical (modulo irrelevant differences like \nwhitespace). If the gcc version has 'x' where the cc version has 'i', your \nfixincludes run didn't work for some reason or other; go back to your gcc\nsources and run `fixincludes`; then rebuild the X distribution. If they are \nidentical, try running a make clean in mit/server and rebuilding, just to make \nsure everything gets compiled with the proper include files. \n\n[courtesy der Mouse, mouse@LARRY.MCRCIM.MCGILL.EDU; 9/90]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 99) What are these problems compiling X11R4 on the older Sun3?\nIn mit/server/ddx/sun/sunCG3C.c, we have found \"missing\" defines for \nCG3AC_MONOLEN, CG3BC_MONOLEN, CG3AC_ENBLEN, CG3BC_ENBLEN. What should these be?\n\n\tThe R4 Errata list distributed after X11R4 mentions that you can add\nthese lines to the file on older SunOS versions (e.g. 3.5) to compile:\n #define CG3AC_MONOLEN (128*1024)\n #define CG3AC_ENBLEN CG3AC_MONOLEN\n #define CG3BC_MONOLEN CG3AC_MONOLEN\n #define CG3BC_ENBLEN CG3AC_MONOLEN\n\n\tHowever, the Sun3 should not actually ever have the CG3 device, and so \nreferences to it can be removed from mit/server/ddx/sun/sunInit.c and the \nImakefile. [11/90]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 100) What are these problems compiling the X server on SunOS 4.1.1?\nThe file isn't being found.\n\n\tSun omitted from SunOS 4.1.1. Remove the #include \nfrom sunCG6C.c and replace it with the line \n\t#define CG6_VADDR_COLOR 0x70016000\nThe file has changed from earlier versions of SunOS and should not be copied \nfrom another distribution.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 101) What are these problems using R4 shared libraries on SunOS 4?\nAll of the executables that I try to run have the following results:\n\tld.so: libXmu.so.4: not found\nor even:\n\tld.so: call to undefined procedure __GetHostname from 0xf776a96c\n\n\tIf you are building with shared libraries on a Sun, remember that you \nneed to run \"ldconfig\" as root after installing the shared libraries (if you've\ninstalled X on a file-server, run it on the server's clients, too). While \nbuilding and installing the distribution, you need to be careful to avoid \nlinking against any existing X shared libraries you might have (e.g. those \ndistributed with OpenWindows). You should make sure you do not have \nLD_LIBRARY_PATH set in your environment during the build or the installation. \nIf you are going to keep xterm and xload as setuid programs, please note that \nthe shared libraries must be installed in /usr/lib, /usr/local/lib, or \n/usr/5lib for these programs to work (or else those programs must be linked \nstatically). [courtesy MIT X Consortium]\n\tNote also that the program mkfontdir is run as part of the build; it\nattempts, however, to use the shared libraries before they have been installed.\nYou can avoid the errors by building mkfontdir statically (pass -Bstatic to\nmost C compilers).\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 102) Can OLIT programs run with R5 Xt? (_XtQString undefined)\n\nThis is a bug in the OLIT. _XtQString was an external symbol that existed in \nX11R4 (upon which OW 3.0's libXt is based). It wasn't documented and was \nremoved in X11R5 (MIT's guarantee of upward compatibility between the R4 and R5\nlibraries only applied to the documented interface). \n\nA workaround is to temporarily set your LD_LIBRARY_PATH to point to the X11R4\nor OpenWindows Xt library that you linked the program against.\n\n[10/92; from Barry Margolin (barmar@think.com); 3/93 from Jeff Francis \n(jpf@heliocentric.com)]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 103) How do I get around the SunOS 4.1 security hole?\n\n\tThere is a security problem with certain R4 clients (xterm and xload)\nrunning under SunOS 4.1 that have been installed setuid root and are using \nshared libraries; to avoid the problem, do one of these:\n\t1) make the program non-setuid. You should consult your system\nadministrator concerning protection of resources (e.g. ptys and /dev/kmem) used\nby these programs, to make sure that you do not create additional security \nproblems at your site.\n\t2) relink the programs statically (using -Bstatic).\n\t3) install the libraries before linking and link with absolute paths\nto the libraries.\n\n[from rws@expo.lcs.mit.edu (Bob Scheifler), 12/90]\n\nThe R5 version of xterm does this automatically by rebuilding xterm against the\nnewly-installed libraries when xterm is being installed; this prevents an suid\nprogram from being built with libraries specified relatively. Note that this \nmay cause an inconvenience when doing the installation from NFS-mounted disks. \nXload has been rewritten to avoid the problem.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 104) How do I get around the frame-buffer security hole?\n\n\tOn many systems the frame-buffer is unsecured by default; this permits \nanyone who can log into your workstation to peek at your windowing session by \naccessing the frame-buffer directly, or, as less of a privacy issue but perhaps\nmore annoying, to [accidentally] start up a second X session on your console \ndisplay. Check the man page for fbtab(5).\n\n[Thanks to Art Mulder (art@cs.ualberta.ca); 2/93.]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 105) TOPIC: BUILDING X PROGRAMS \n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 106) What is Imake?\n\n\tImake is not a replacement for the make program; instead, it is a\nmakefile-generator that takes advantages of the include-file and macro-\nprocessing capabilities of the C preprocessor cpp to generate makefiles \nsuitable for building software on a particular system. Although it is not \nspecific to X, the X release uses it to help solve a number of the \nconfiguration issues that arise in making such a large system widely portable.\n\tImake has a fairly steep learning curve, in part because the process by\nwhich the system-specific configuration files, system-independent configuration\nfiles, and individual Imakefiles are melded to produce a Makefile is not \nobvious.\n\tThere have been several different versions of imake; the R3, R4, and\nR5 versions are different.\n\n\tYou can obtain information on imake from these sources:\n\t- the R4 and R5 release notes and imake man page include information on\nusing Imake to build X\n\t- the R4 and R5 file mit/config/README also contains useful information\n\t- on the R4 tapes, contrib/doc/imake/imake.tex is Mark Moraes' R3/R4\nguide to imake.\n\t- the R5 mit/doc/config/usenixws/paper.ms contains a paper by Jim\nFulton on an early version of Imake\n\t- Paul Dubois (dubois@primate.wisc.edu) has written a useful \nexplanation of how Imake works and how to use it in configuring X for non-\nsupported systems; the document is available from ftp.primate.wisc.edu\nin the directory ~ftp/pub/imake-stuff; look for config-X11R4.ms (troff) and \nconfig-X11R4.ps (PostScript). Some supplemental appendices are nearby. \n[7/91: document version is now 1.06] These imake papers are available by email;\nmail a message body of \"send imake-stuff help\" to almanac@primate.wisc.edu.\n\t- see \"System Administration - Imake: Friend of Foe?\" by Dinah McNutt\nin the November 1991 issue of SunExpert.\n\t- German readers should expect in June 1992 an article \"Das Meta-Make \n/ I make, you make / Schwerelos\" by Rainer Klute in \"iX \nMultiuser-Multitasking-Magazin\", directed at application programmers needing to\nwrite Imakefiles. An English-language derivative of this article is in The\nX Journal, issue 2:1.\n\t- The O'Reilly X Resource issue #2 contains Paul Davey's article on\ndemystifying Imake.\n\t- Alain Brossard's working document full of tips on Imake is in \nsasun1.epfl.ch:pub/imakefile.1.Z.\n\n[1/91;12/91;5/92;8/92]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 107) Where can I get imake?\n\n\tVersions are distributed with the R4 and R5 releases. An earlier \nversion is distributed with the X11R3 release; some third-party toolkits \nredistribute versions of imake along with their own implementations of the \ntemplate and configuration files. There are no real standards for such \nconfiguration files, although most *current* contributed software expects the \ntemplates distributed with X11R5.\n\texport contains the R5 distribution unpacked, so you can pick up imake\nwithout picking up the entire distribution.\n\tA stand-alone version of Imake, but one stemming from X11R5, is in\nftp.germany.eu.net:pub/X11/misc/imake/imake-pure.tar.Z (192.76.144.75).\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 108) I have a program with an Imakefile but no Makefile. What to do?\n\n\tIf you have R4 or R5 installed on your system, run \"xmkmf\". This is a \nscript which runs imake for you with the correct arguments. The output is a \nMakefile configured for your system and based on the Imakefile. Then run make, \nwhich will use that new Makefile to compile the program.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 109) Why can't I link to the Xlib shape routines?\nWhen I try to compile certain programs, I get the following link error:\n\tUndefined:\n\t_XShapeQueryExtension\n\t_XShapeCombineMask\n\n\tThese routines are actually part of the Shape Extension to X (SHAPE)\nwhich was introduced in the MIT X11R4 distribution and allows non-rectangular\nwindows. Like the other sample server extensions, the shape extension will \nonly run on a server which supports it. Pre-X11R4 servers, as well as many \nvendor-supplied servers, do not support the shape extension, in which case \nthey will display rectangular windows anyway.\n\n\tIn order to use the shape extension, you must link to the library \nlibXext.a. In the X11R4 distribution, this library and the associated includes\nwill be in the mit/extensions directory. If you do not have these files, do \nnot despair: many freeware programs which use the shape extension can also be \ncompiled without it by removing the -DSHAPE define from the Makefile; you can\nprobably do this and compile successfully against your older vendor-supplied X \nlibraries.\n\n[from John B. Melby, melby%yk.fujitsu.co.jp@uunet.uu.net, 3/91]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 110) What are these problems with \"_XtInherit not found\" on the Sun?\nWhen I run a X program that I wrote on a SunOS 4.0.3 or 4.1 machine I get the \nerror \"ld.so: symbol not found _XtInherit\".\n\n\tWhat you are seeing is a side-effect of a kludge in the R4 libXt.a to \nget Sun shared libraries working. Apparently, you can't share a function that \nis both called and compared, as _XtInherit is. This was handled by putting \n_XtInherit in the same file as a function that is always used, thereby \nguaranteeing that it would be loaded -- that is, in Initialize.c, where \nXtToolkitInitialize() and XtInitialize() reside. These routines would normally\nbe called.\n\n\tYou are probably seeing this error because your program is not a normal\nXt-based program and does not call XtToolkitInitialize() anywhere. \n\t1) it may be a program that uses Xt functions but never opens a \nconnection to the X server. [OSF/Motif's 1.1.0 UIL had this problem; it called\nXtMalloc() and other Xt functions.] The solution is to add the call to your \nprogram; the function does not have to be executed, just linked in.\n\t2) alternatively, your program doesn't need any Xt functions and is\ncorrect in not calling XtToolkitInitialize() -- it may be an Xlib or XView \nprogram. In this case, you can remove -lXt from your link command. \n\n\tIt should not be necessary to link the shared libraries statically,\nalthough this will certainly solve the problem.\n\t\n[from Jordan Hayes (now jordan@MooreNet.COM) and Danny Backx (db@sunbim.be); \n11/90]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 111) Why can't I compile my R3 Xaw contrib programs under the new X?\nI have a program that worked well under X11R3. When I try to link it under \nthe current version of X, I get this message:\n\tUndefined:\n\t_XtScrollBarSetThumb\n\t_XtTextSetInsertionPoint\n\t_XtTextReplace\n\n\tThere were several name changes in the Athena widget set (in addition\nto the header files moving into ); these are mentioned in the R4\nrelease notes. In this case, these functions are not really Xt functions but\nare part of the Xaw text widget and so have been renamed from Xt* to Xaw*.\n[10/90]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 112) TOPIC: PROGRAMMING PROBLEMS AND PUZZLES\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 113) Why doesn't my program get the keystrokes I select for (sic)?\n\n\tThe window manager controls how the input focus is transferred from one\nwindow to another. In order to get keystrokes, your program must ask the\nwindow manager for the input focus. To do this, you must set up what are\ncalled \"hints\" for the window manager. If your applications is Xlib-based, you\ncan use something like the following:\n\n XWMHints wmhints;\n ...\n wmhints.flags = InputHint;\n wmhints.input = True;\n XSetWMHints(dpy, window, &wmhints)\n\nIf your application is based on the Xt Intrinsics, you can set the XtNinput \nresource to be True (as you probably want to in any case); if you don't have\nsource, you can start up the application with the resource '*input:True'.\n\nCertain window managers, notably dxwm and olwm, are very picky about having \nthis done. \n\n\tIf you are using Sun's OpenWindows olwm, you can also add this resource\nto your defaults file to use clients that aren't ICCCM-compliant.\n\tOpenWindows.FocusLenience: true\n\n[mostly courtesy Dave Lemke of NCD and Stuart Marks of Sun]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 114) How do I figure out what window manager is running?\n\n\tYou can't reliably tell; whatever mechanism you could use could be\nspoofed in any case. \n\tFor most cases, you shouldn't care which window manager is running, so \nlong as you do things in an ICCCM-conformant manner. There are some cases in \nwhich particular window managers are known to do things wrong; checking for\nparticular hints placed on the window by the window manager so that you can \nsidestep the problem may be appropriate in these cases. Alternatively, it may \nbe appropriate to determine which window manager is running in order to take\nadvantage of specific *added* features (such as olwm's push-pin menus) in order\nto give your program *added* functionality. Beware of usurping the window \nmanager's functions by providing that functionality even when it is missing;\nthis surely leads to future compatibility problems.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 115) Is there a skeleton X program available?\n\t\n\tThere is no general framework such as the TransSkel program for the \nMacintosh which handles lots of the odds and ends and overhead of development \nunder a window system and which can be used as a platform for additional \ndevelopment. In X, the problem is typically solved by using an interactive \napplication builder tool or by using cut&paste on existing X applications. Good\napplications which you might look to manipulate when you want to \"test just \nthis one little thing\" include contrib/clients/xskel, a simple R4 program that \nputs up a window and allows sketching in it and offers a starting point for\nquick hacks, the Xaw examples in the examples/ directory in the R3 and R4 \ndistributions, and the Xlib \"Hello World\" example in the R3 doc/HelloWorld and \nR4 doc/tutorials/HelloWorld; an updated version of this program which uses R4 \nXlib calls and current ICCCM conventions was posted in 2/90 to comp.windows.x \nby Glenn Widener of Tektronix. \t[3/90]\n\n\tIn addition, a sample Xt program (for Xaw or Xm) by Rainer Klute \nshowing how to open multiple displays and how to catch a broken display \nconnection is available on export.lcs.mit.edu in contrib/mdisp.tar.Z. [4/92]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 116) Why does XtGetValues not work for me (sic)?\n\n\tThe XtGetValues interface for retrieving resources from a widget is\nsensitive to the type of variable. Your code may be doing something like this:\n\t{\n\tArg args[3];\n\tint i;\n\tint sensitive;\t\t/* oops; wrong data type */\n\ti=0;\n\tXtSetArg (args[i], XtNsensitive, &sensitive); i++;\n\tXtGetValues(widget, args, i );\n\t...\n\t}\n\nBut XtNsensitive is a Boolean, which on most machines is a single byte; \ndeclaring the variable \"sensitive\" as Boolean works properly. This problem \ncomes up often when using particular toolkits that redefine the Xt types \nDimension and Position; code that assumes they are int will have similar \nproblems if those types are actually short. In general: you are safe if you\nuse the actual type of the resource, as it appears in the widget's man page.\n[11/90]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 117) Why don't XtConfigureWidget/XtResizeWidget/XtMoveWidget work?\n\n\tYou're probably trying to use these functions from application code.\nThey should be used only internally to widgets; these functions are for a \nparent widget to change the geometry of its children. Other promising \nfunctions, XtMakeGeometryRequest() and XtMakeResizeRequest(), are also for use \nonly by widgets, in this case by a child to request a change from its parent.\n\tThe only way for your application to request a geometry change for a\nwidget is to issue an XtSetValues call setting some of the geometry resources.\nAlthough this will result in the widget-internal functions' being called, your\napplication code must use the standard XtSetValues interface or risk the \nwidgets' data becoming corrupted.\n\t[The Xlib calls XMoveWindow() and XResizeWindow() should similarly be \navoided; they shouldn't be used to change XtNx, XtNy, XtNwidth, or XtNheight.]\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: 118) Why isn't there an XtReparentWidget call like XReparentWindow?\n\n\tAlthough there are various details of the current implementation of\nthe Xt internals which make reparenting difficult, the major reason that no\nsuch call exists is that it remains undefined what the set of resources for\nthe \"new\" widget should be. Resources are typically set based on the location\nin the instance hierarchy; what resources should change if the instance moves?\nWhat should happen to the widget's children? And by the time such semantics are\ndefined, there would probably be little advantage over destroying the old \nwidget and creating a new widget in the correct location with the desired \nresources, as setting the resources correctly is the majority of work in \ncreating a new widget.\n\n\tNote that reparenting is possible in the OI toolkit.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nDavid B. Lewis \t\t\t\t\tfaq%craft@uunet.uu.net\n\n\t\t\"Just the FAQs, ma'am.\" -- Joe Friday ", "\n\nI had this problem when I initially installed my sound blaster pro and here's\nwhat the tech support told me.\n\nThey told me to look for the files that are stated in the readme file from\nthe win31 subdirectory of the soudblaster directory. Now look in the system.ini\nfile and if any of them say device=xxxxxxx.386 than change it to \ndevice=*xxxxxxx\nThats should work. Was your system.ini file erased for some reason? That would\nbe the only reason that I would think that Windoes is giving you the error now.\n", "Posting for a friend: please call Steve, 415 252-1618, if interested.\n\nSEGA Genesis games for sale.\n\nIn original boxes with original manuals.\n\nApproximately 1 month old.\n\n-- John Madden Football '93, Electronic Arts, $40.00 obo\n\n-- Ecco The Dolphin, SEGA,, $40.00 obo \n\nAgain, I'm posting for a friend. If interested, call:", "Does anyone know the phone number to a place where i can get\na VGA passthrough?\n\n\tI want to hook up my VGA card to my XGA card (whcih you can can).\nAll I need is the cable that connects them. It is the same type of\ncable that you would connect from your VGA card to say a Video Blaster\nor something.", "You will need Driver ver 3.5.2 to work with Quadra/Centris. You can download\nit from iomega BBS: 1-801-778-4400\n\n--", "I have the following Snes Games forsale. The ones with * have instructions and the other ones have no instructions.\n\n*Romance of the Three Kingdoms II $25\n*Populous\t\t\t $15\nLegend of Zelda\n\tA link to the past \t $10\nSoul Blazer\t\t\t $10\n\n\tPlease reply by e-mail to jth@bach.udel.edu.\n\n\tI ask for $3 for S&H for one game, if you buy more than one I still only need $3.", "Hello all,\n I need to make some torso 3D scans and would like the phone numbers of\ncompanies in the midwest that make scans, and the numbers of companies that\nmake the sanners (ie Cyberware). Does anyone have an idea of how much a\nsingle scan costs and the best format to save it in? I am not sure on what\nsoftware platform I will be using it in, probably either Softimage or\nWavefront. So I think a spline based format would be best. Please forward the\nnumbers to me personally as I am having problems accessing USENET lately.\nThanks in advance!", "What's the difference between loading mouse.com in autoexec.bat and\ndoing device=mouse.sys in config.sys??\n\nwhich one is better?\n\nThanks a lot", "\nICS - Integrated Computer Solutions Incorporated\n 201 Broadway\n Cambridge, MA 02139\n Vox: (617) 621-0060\n Fax: (617) 621-9555\n Email: info@ics.com\n\n Circle 9 on Reader Service Card\n\n", "I too have been watching the IIsi speedup reports and plan to upgrade in\nthe next few weeks. The plan I have is to build a small board with a few\ndifferent crystals on it and to be able to switch between the different\nspeeds using a front pannel switch. This way I can get the speed when\nI want but I can also run at slower (stock) speeds it I experience any\ncompatability problems with any applications. I don't expect to be able\nto switch clock speeds with the system running, but if I can switch\nwithout any lock-up problems, then I could switch to 33MHz when needed\nand put it back to idle (20 MHz) when not needeed. This would further\nreduce the wear-and-tear on the CPU even with a heat sink. Of course\nI would not want to run the different clock signals through the switch\nbut use a chip or two on the board to select the frequency desired and\nroute it directly to the mother board.\n\nI haven't started probing around inside my si yet. Does anyone know the\nvoltage level to power the crystal oscilators? ", "\nMy Beckman died a few days ago, thanks do about a 4 or 5 foot drop onto a\nlab table. !@#!@$#!@$@#$ Probably not indicative of anything, but I've\nalready filled out the requisition for a Fluke 87. :-)\n\nOh yeah, and sometimes our measurements here do count. Not often, but often\nenough that I want at least _one_ good meter!", "What can people tell me about apple's new keyboard, the one that is designed\nto be more ergonomically friendly? I have begun to experience wrist and hand\npains using a standard keyboard, and using a powerbook. What can people with\nsimilar experiences tell me? Replies to email please. Paul G.\n", "At the moment i'm trying to grab a portion of a Starbase screen, and store it\nin an area of memory. The data needs to be in a 24-bit format (which\nshouldn't be a problem as the app is running on a 24 bit screen), though\ni'm not too fussy about the exact format.\n\n(I actually intend to write the data out as a TIFF but that bits not the\nproblem)\n\nDoes anyone out there know how to grab a portion of the screen? The\nblock_read call seems to grab the screen, but not in 24 bit colour,\nwhatever the screen/window type i get 1 byte per pixel. \n\nthanks in advance,\n\nMartin\n\n\n\n\n--\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------", "\nNewsgroups: rec.audio,misc.forsale\nDistribution: na\nSubject: Forsale: Sony D-22 diskman\n", "Th following cd's are for sale. Each cd cost 10$ except otherwise indicated\n which includes shipping and handling.\n \n Achtung baby\t\t\t\tU2 *\n Joshua tree\t\t\t\tU2 **\n The immaculate collection Madonna ** $12\n Love hurts Cher *\n Garth brooks Garth brooks *\n Red hot ..chilli peppers.. **\n OOOOOHHHHH\t\t\t\tTLC **\n Light and shadows\t\t\twilson **\n\n * Used only once.\n ** never used, most of them are still in shrink wraps\n\n Please email to", "\nHmm, I don't know where this information concerning the cable and the\nwarranty came from but I ordered mine from Logos Communications, near\nCleveland, and inside was a Mac cable (with the correct pin connections :-))\nand a lifetime warranty. The whole package was assembled at AT&T Paradyne,\nand every piece (the serial cable, the telephone cable, etc.) had AT&T \npart numbers on them, except the QuickLink software package and the \nCompuServe intro kit.\n\n\nIf anyone's interested, Logos number is (800) 837-7777. I ordered mine\nlast Wednesday and got my modem on Friday, though it's not to far from\nCleveland to Pittsburgh.. :-) On the down side they only ship UPS COD.\n\n\n\t\t\t\t\t- Chris", "\n\n\nThey are working ok, but your definitions in QVTNET.INI and QVTHOST.RC are\nincorrect (see below).\n\n\nNo, I don't think so. You are using QVTNET and NOVELL concurrently, aren't\nyou? They use different packet types, so QVTNET (TCP/IP) and NOVELL (IPX/SPX)\nshould be able to coexist just fine. PKTMUX is required if you are using\ndifferent TCP/IP-Packages concurrently.\n\n\nThere is the first problem: You didn't specify hostnames, just IP-Addresses.\nYour file should look like this:\n\n137.112.5.2 \n137.112.199.50 \n\n\nHere you should only specify your hostname, without the domain part.\n\n\nInstead, use router=, as specified in your QVTHOST.RC\nI know the release notes for 3.31 say that IP addresses should work also,\nbut apparently they don't.\n\n\nHere, too, you should use the hostname of the nameserver instead of the\nIP address.\n\nIt worked fine for me that way, although I could not specify more than\none nameserver. The relnotes say it should be possible to specify up to\nthree nameservers, separated by commas, but it didn't work.\n\nHope it helps,\nRichard\n", "I have many icons in IconEdit and PBIcon format and I would like to \nconvert them to PBM, PGM or PPM format. Do you know the formats of\nIconEdit or PBIcon?", "The following jazz magazines will go for the best \n OFFER received. Shipping not included, these are \n pretty heavy. Of course if you are local (Mass, USA) \n you can come get 'em in person. All are in GREAT \n condition!! These will go as one lot. I will not \n break them up. \n\n Metronome - Sep 1947, Feb 1948, June 1948, \n Nov 1950, Dec 1950, June 1952 \n Nov 1953 \n\n Downbeat - Jan 15,1947 (was newspaper sized..folded) \n Jan 18,1962, Feb 15,1962, Dec 19,1963, \n Mar 12,1964, Apr 9,1964, May 7,1964, \n May 21,1964, Jun 4,1964, Jul 16,1964, \n Sep 10,1964, Dec 17,1964, Dec 31,1964, \n Aug 26,1965, Oct 7,1965, Oct 21,1965, \n Dec 16,1965, Dec 30,1965, Jan 13,1966, \n Apr 21,1966, Jul 28,1966, Sep 8,1966, \n Dec 29,1966, Feb 9,1967, Feb 23,1967, \n Jun 15,1967, Nov 15,1967, Apr 4,1968, \n Aug 8,1968, Sep 5,1968, Oct 3,1968, \n Oct 31,1968, Feb 6,1969, Mar 6,1969, \n May 15,1969, Jun 12,1969, Jul 10,1969, \n Jul 24,1969, Aug 21,1969, Sep 4,1969, \n Dec 2,1969, May 14,1970, May 28,1970, \n Jun 11,1970, Jun 25,1970, Jul 9,1970, \n Aug 19,1971, Mar 15,1973, Mar 29,1973, \n May 10,1973, May 24,1973, Nov 1985 \n\n Also I will toss in (free): \n\n Jazz Journal (Feb 1979,Apr 1979) and \n CODA Magazine (Jun 1985, Dec 1985) \n", "\nI would like to know as well, since I just bought a 200MB Seagate IDE\ndrive and want to add it to my computer (a four-year-old Gateway\n386/20), which currently has an 80MB Seagate SCSI drive. The SCSI\ncontroller is such that the docs told me not to specify it in the CMOS\nsetup, i.e. both hard drive settings are listed as \"Not installed,\"\nand apparently the SCSI controller works its wonders. I wondering if\nthis is a problem. Also, I remember how, when I helped my cousin\ninstall his second IDE drive, we had to define a master/slave\nrelationship for them; do I need to do something similar here?\n\n\nSame here.\n\nAny help would be appreciated, since I intend to install this drive\nASAP; I'd like to know what to do (and what not to do) before I start.\nThanks!\n-- ", "I have an EISA machine and I just do not understand why most\nEISA video cards only match the performance of their ISA\ncounterparts. For instance, the EISA Orchid Pro Designer IIs-E is\nonly about as \"fast\" as the ISA Diamond SpeedStar Plus, which isn't\nwhat I would call \"fast.\"\n\nI don't understand why EISA video cards aren't, as a group, on the\nsame level of performance as Local Bus cards, given that EISA video\ncards have a 32 bit bus to move data around, instead of ISA's 8 bits.\n\nSince they are not, why would anyone (me included) pay a higher\ncost for a EISA video card when its performance is no better than\nand often worse that a much cheaper ISA video board, such as a\nDiamond SpeedStar 24X? From PC Magazine's (I think) recent report,\nI know that ATI makes a pretty fast EISA video card, but it's\naround $500, which is just about double what my wallet will allow\nme to spend. And, for $500, I could get a Diamond Viper and still\nhave $100 left over (of course, I'd have to get a Local Bus mother-\nboard too...)\n\nCan anyone shed some light on my confusion/frustration?", "Help!\n I'm trying to configure NCSA Telnet v2.3.05 to work with a 3C503 ethernet\nboard. I can use FTP fine, but whenever I attempt to use Telnet, the\nmachine hangs with a blank screen and a blinking green cursor. Any ideas?", "Hi all,\n\n I am looking for a recommandation on a good royalty free graphics\nlibrary package for C and C++ program. This is mainly use to write\nchildren games and education software. I heard someone mentioned Genus\nand also GFX ? Are they any good?\n\nPlease pardon me if my question sounds a little strange, I am asking\nthis question for a friend.\n\nThanks in advance!", "SWELL ITEMS FOR SALE - HARDLY ANY COMPUTER STUFF\n\no LOTUS 1-2-3 Student Edition for DOS ...................... $10.00\n This does just about everything that standard 1-2-3\n Release 2.01 could do, but not as much of it. Worksheet \n size is limited to 64 columns by 256 rows, there is no\n translation facility (for importing data from other\n packages), and the Student Edition does not write files \n that can be accessed by Release 2.01. Includes manual,\n original distribution diskettes (5 1/4\" - 360K), and key\n board templates.\n\n\no Subaru Service Manuals ................................... $10.00\n This is not a complete set, but includes sections 4, 5 \n & 6 which cover MECHANICAL COMPONENTS (suspension, wheels \n & axles, steering, brakes, pedals & control cables, heater \n & ventilator, air conditioning), BODY (body & exterior, \n doors & windows, seats, seat belts, interior, instrument \n panel), and ELECTRICAL (engine electrical system, body \n electrical system, wiring diagram, and trouble-shooting). \n These are the genuine Subaru issue manuals. They are for \n model year 1986, but have plenty of good information that \n applies to other years as well.\n\n\no Miscellaneous Darkroom Equipment ........................ $75.00\n Solar enlarger (several objective lenses) with easel and \n timer, negative carriers for 35mm and 2 1/4 x 3 1/4, misc.\n printing masks. Developing tanks, thermometer, trays, \n constant-temperature bath, ground glass, mirrors, darkroom\n lamps, glassware, el-cheap-o tripods..... and (as they say)\n MUCH MORE!\n\n\no Beautiful Antique Buffet ............................... $1500.00\n Solid cherry (no veneer). Handmade, with very interesting\n dovetail corners in the drawers. Built (we think) around \n 1880. Not gaudy or covered with gew-gaws; a simple, elegant \n piece of furniture, but too big (60\" long, 37\" tall, 24\" \n deep) for our little Cape Cod house.\n\n\nWill deliver pricier items (ie, over $10) anywhere in the Rochester \narea. (And will consider delivering the others.) Will deliver any \nof it on (or near) UofR Campus between now and graduation.", "I need to port several OS/2 PM applications to X (OpenWindows or Motif),\nand desperately need any information on how to go about doing this (short\nof a complete rewrite.\n \nAre there any tool to make porting easer?\nAny References?\nAny talent out there to hire to do this?\nI will even take an OS/2 Presentation Mgr emulator for sun!\n \nAny, and all replies (except flames) welcome!\n \n \nBrian Colaric", "\tDoug> NNTP-Posting-Host: se05.wg2.waii.com\n\n\tDoug> ..continuing on my build problems, I got stuck here build xterm...\n\n\n\tDoug> Undefined first referenced\n\tDoug> symbol in file\n\tDoug> index /usr/ucblib/libtermcap.a(termcap.o)\n\tDoug> rindex /usr/ucblib/libtermcap.a(termcap.o)\n\tDoug> ld: fatal: Symbol referencing errors. No output written to xterm\n\n\nActually .. the problem is that you have to build with LD_LIBRARY_PATH\nunset as well as LD_RUN_PATH.", "Directory PD1:\n Filename Type Length Date Description\n==============================================\nCLKDEV14.ZIP B 37122 910729 Keep DOS time in synch with battery clock chip\n\nAn index of all files in the WSMR-SIMTEL20.Army.Mil MS-DOS collection\nis available in two formats:\n\nDirectory PD1:\n Filename Type Description\n==============================================\nSIMIBM.ZIP B Comma-delim list of all MSDOS files w/descrip.\nSIMLIST.ZIP B Text format list of all MSDOS files w/descrip.\n\nThese files are updated every 7-10 days. See AAAREAD.ME in that\ndirectory for details. \n\nSIMTEL20 allows only nine ANONYMOUS FTP logins during weekday\nprime time, 5am to 3pm Mountain Time (GMT-7), but 27 otherwise.\n\nSIMTEL20 files are also available by anonymous ftp from mirror sites\nOAK.Oakland.Edu (141.210.10.117), wuarchive.wustl.edu (128.252.135.4),\narchive.orst.edu (128.193.2.13), ftp.uu.net (137.39.1.9), nic.funet.fi\n(128.214.6.100), src.doc.ic.ac.uk (146.169.3.7), nic.switch.ch\n(130.59.1.40), archie.au (139.130.4.6), NCTUCCCA.edu.tw (140.111.3.21),\nby e-mail through the BITNET/EARN file servers, or by uucp from UUNET's\n1-900-GOT-SRCS. See UUNET file uunet!~/info/archive-help for details.\n\nOAK.Oakland.Edu is the primary mirror site for WSMR-SIMTEL20.Army.Mil.\nAll other mirrors (except wuarchive) and all LISTSERV and TRICKLE\nservers get their SIMTEL20 files from OAK instead of SIMTEL20 because\nit is much faster and allows more simultaneous ftp connections. OAK is\nalways \"in sync\" with SIMTEL20 because I maintain it, in addition to my\nduties at SIMTEL20. I run OAK's mirror program whenever new files are\nadded at SIMTEL20.\n\nMSDOS-Ann@TACOM-EMH1.Army.Mil is a ONE-WAY (moderated) mailing list\nwhich is used by the Internet MS-DOS archive managers to announce new\nadditions to their collections. \n\nThe announcements posted to this mailing list are also posted to Usenet\nnewsgroup comp.archives.msdos.announce. If your host has Usenet News\nplease do not subscribe to MSDOS-Ann.\n\nTo add yourself to the mailing list send e-mail to\nlistserv@TACOM-EMH1.Army.Mil with this command in the\nbody of the message:\n\n subscribe msdos-ann\n\nTo subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,\nsuch as a local redistribution list, then add that address to the\n\"subscribe\" command; for example, to subscribe \"local-msdos-ann\":\n\n subscribe local-msdos-ann@your.domain.net msdos-ann\n\nPlease do not include a signature because it may confuse the server.\nSend mail with the word help in the body of the message to get a\ncomplete list of commands and their syntax.\n\nIf you later change your mind and wish to unsubscribe, send e-mail\nfrom the same address where you were when you subscribed. Send to\nlistserv@TACOM-EMH1.Army.Mil with this command in the body of the\nmessage:\n\nunsubscribe msdos-ann\n\nThis server is only for mailing lists and information files. It will\nnot send program files. \n\nKeith", "Hi,\n I just got myself a Gateway 4DX-33V and trying to configure\nX11R5 for it. Has anyone done this before ? More specifically,\nI need a correct Xconfig file entry that is set up for my \ngraphics card and monitor. I have a 15\" Color CrystalScan 1572FS monitor\nand a VESA LOCAL BUS ATI Ultra Pro with 1MB VRAM video card.\n\nAny help will be extremely appreciated.\n\nThanks in advance.\n\nPlease send replies to christy@alex.qc.ca\n", "How can I capture ButtonPress/ButtonRelease events in multiple clients?\nI want to know if the user is still at the display before locking the screen.\nI can get KeyPress/KeyRelease and Pointer motion events, but if the user\nis pressing the mouse button in the same location (the mouse doesn't move)\nI can't capture the events. \n\nThe O'Reilly Xlib Programming Manual (vol. 1) says on page 252;\n \"Only one client can select button events on any one window at one time, \n due to the grab that automatically takes place.\" \n\nAny help would be appreciated.", "\nMy package is based on several articles about non-standard radiosity and\nsome unpublished methods.\n\nThe main articles are:\n\n- Cohen, Chen, Wallace, Greenberg : \n A Progressive Refinement Approach to fast Radiosity Image Generation\n Computer Graphics (SIGGRAPH), V. 22(No. 4), pp 75-84, August 1988\n\n- Silion, Puech\n A General Two-Pass Method Integrating Specular and Diffuse Reflection\n Computer Graphics (SIGGRAPH), V23(No. 3), pp335-344, July 1989 \n\n\nI do not use hemi-cubes. I have no special hardware (SUN SPARCstation).\n\n\nUse anonymous as username and your e-mail address as password.\n\n\n\nStephan.\n\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n Stephan Amann SIG Computer Graphics, University of Berne, Switzerland\n amann@iam.unibe.ch\n\t Tel +41 31 65 46 79\t Fax +41 31 65 39 65\n\n Projects: Radiosity, Raytracing, Computer Graphics\n", "The good news is we just got two Sparc10's. The bad news is\nthat /dev/cgtwelve0 is apparently not supported in X11R4 or\nX11R5. Does anyone know of a patch (and how I can obtain it)\nto either X version that will enable us to use X11 on our\nSparc10's? ", "Hi,\n\ndoes anyone have a keyboard map for a Sun UK type 5 keyboard for use under\nX11/R5 ?\n\nThanks,\n\nNigel.\n", "Hi, I was wondering if anyone out there knows of any books that give helpful\nhints and tips on writing thesis papers in WfW. I know about the dissertation\ntemplate that comes with word but I want more. I would like to have tips on\nhow to use all the {seq ...} , {bookmark ...} , {index ...} , { chapter ...},\nfields that are available in word. I have looked through the help files,etc.\nbut they really don't explain a whole lot. I will post the results(That means\nemail me first) if I get a lot of different suggestions since I think this\nmight be of help to lots of crazy grad students such as myself. Thanks.\n\n\nBrian Servis\n\np.s. How do you change the font that Help uses when printing a topic? The \n default is so choppy and hard to read.", "Well, although this may be an uncommon occurrence (or not) I had a \"bad\"\nexperience with TechWorks. This past summer I upgraded (increased) the memory in\na powerbook and a ci. When I called to place the order for the PB RAM, I was\ntold by the sales person that they would give me a $50 rebate if I would return\nthe original RAM (which was also TechWorks RAM.) I followed the instructions for\nreturning the old RAM, expecting to see a credit on my VISA within a few weeks.\n\nWell, months went by, and no credit. After many calls (almost none of which were\never returned - arghhh) I finally found someone who told me \"Why we never\nreceived your old chips.\" I then explained I the procedure that I had\nfollowed to return them, to which the person replied \"You mean you sent them\nUS Mail?\" (which I had, per the original sales person's instructions.) I was\ntold that they their loss of US mail shipments is not uncommon (come on) and that\nI should have sent the stuff via FedEx, etc. I reasoned that I had done exactly\nwhat I had been told to, but they would not budge, the people I spoke with were\nabsolutely no help. I sent letters, copies of the original receipts, attempted\nto trace the package through the US mail, made *many* more phone calls to\nTechWorks, all to no avail (I wouldn't give-up because I was so disgusted.)\nSales/support people, supervisors, there was nothing I could do to pursuade them\nto \"make it right.\"\n\nI finally (in total disgust) wrote a letter to my credit card company, asking\nthem to investigate the problem. Three weeks later, the credit miraculously\nappeared on my statement. I have not (in recent memory) been so disgusted with\nthe service that I received from a company. In all fairness, they had no way of\nknowing that was not trying to rip them off, but I went to *such* great lengths\nto prove to them that this really happened. Oh well, c'est la vie. I will never\nbuy another product from them again.", ": \n: well, i have lots of experience with scanning in images and altering\n: them. as for changing them back into negatives, is that really possible?\n\n: (stuff deleted)\n\n: jennifer urso: the oh-so bitter woman of utter blahness(but cheerful\n: undertones)\n\nI use Aldus Photostyler on the PC and I can turn a colour or black and white\nimage into a negative or turn a negative into a colour or black and white\nimage. I don't know how it does it but it works well. To test it I scanned\na negative and used Aldus to create a positive. It looked better than the\nprint that the film developers gave me.\n\n\n-- ", "I have the PAS16 / Toshiba 3401 combo and have no problems with it.\n", "Novell 386dx16 motherboard with cpu, 4 megs of memory and I/O ports for\n$160 + shipping / firm. \n\nlet me know if you are interested. ", "\n\n\nWell...I need the old 8\" disks ... You are right, disks is a better word,\nbut they are so big and calling them disks is kind of funny ... but the\nappropriate word is disks ...", "\nAn advertisement in MicroTimes (a bay area mini-Computer Shopper) from\nENCY systems in Fremont has a graphic for the P24T performance based\non MIPS (power meter v1.7): the 486DX-33 raked in about 14-15, the \n486DX2-66 got about 24, and the P24T-66 got about 44-45.\n\nTom", "\nInteresting. Would you care to explain to me then, how my SoundBlaster\nPro card and my printer card are sharing IRQ 7 successfully? I assure\nyou that they are both set to IRQ 7 and that I have no problem. My\ncomputer is a DTK 286-12 IBM clone.", "I need a off-the-shelf method of transmitting small amounts of data up to\n300 feet. The data is low speed and can be encoded as needed. Low power\non the transmitting end would be a plus. An FCC certified product would\nbe prefered.\n\nIf you have any pointers to products or companies I'd appreciate hearing from\nyou.", "\nI think the original respondent (Guy Dawson?) was refering to something\nmuch more elementary.\n\nEvery partition (whether it is the entire disk or not) has two FATs and\nan initial directory.\n\nIf you have a small disk (50 meg or less), I would recommend that it remain\na single partition. Unless you have some other consideration.\n\nIf you have a large disk (greater than 200 meg), multiple partitions can\nmake sense.\n", "\n\nI imagine that was the MKS Toolkit, from Mortice Kern Systems.\nAnother third party add-in, and a good one too.\n", "\n\n\nThe 5426 has its own set of drivers. You may be using the\ndrivers intended for the 5420 or 5422 by mistake.\n\nBe sure you have the 5426 driver version 1.2\n\n\nDon't quote me on this one, but I'd steer clear of the\nmulti resolution driver that allows you to change resolution\nwithout exiting Windows. I think it's buggy.\n\n\nVersion 1.3 drivers are due to be release by Cirrus soon.\nUnfortunately, their not available via FTP, you have to dial\nup their BBS in the USA. I do this from NZ using a 14.4k modem\nto cut down on phone bills. It took me around 7 minutes to \ndownload the v1.2 driver.\n\n\nGood Luck, ", "Can someone please help me understand the current situation\nregarding SIMMS?\n\nI have a IIsi which I will probably keep for another 2 years.\n\nI would like to add more memory, ie go from 5 MB to 17 MB.\n\nI know that I will need 4 x 4MB, 80ns or faster SIMMS.\n\nWhich SIMMS, 30 pin or 72 pin?\nWould the SIMMS I get today be usable in 2 years with a \nnewer, more powerful system?\n\nAny insight would be appreciated.\n\nThanks.\n\nRob", "I'm writing a mail management system using Word for Windows 2.0 as\na front end. The user dials up a remote system and downloads a batch\nof mail as \"foo.txt .\" I've set up an AutoExec macro in Winword to load\n\"foo.txt\" OK, but subsequent invocations of the macro will of course\npose file name contention problems.\n\nWhat I'd really like to do is to create an AutoExit macro in Winword\nthat would move \"foo.txt\" to a specified directory, rename it using\nthe current date and time, and delete the original \"foo.txt .\"\n\nIn other words, \"foo.txt\" gets renamed as \"5012300\", say, on May 1\nat 23:00- the user gets a time-indexed backup of his mail files and\n\"foo.txt\" is freed up for the next packet of mail, since my AutoExec\nmacro points to it.\n\nMy main question is this: \n\nHow may one rename a file from within a WordBasic macro to include a \ntime/date variable in the new filename? \n\n\nThanks-\n\n=======================================================================\n \"If you ever reach total enlightenment while drinking a beer,\n I bet it makes beer shoot out of your nose.\" -- Jack Handey", "\n\nThere is a way in which a multi-tasking computer actually gives you\nmore CPU power then you had before, and that is with I/O overlap.\nWith I/O overlap, your CPU can continue to \"think\" while disk\noperations are underway, whereas without overlap, your CPU sits idly\nwaiting for each disk operation to finish - and disk operations take\nan *eternity*, compared to a fast CPU.\n\nSo, when you've got multi-tasking, you want to increase performance by\nincreasing the amount of overlapping you do.\n\nOne way is with DMA or bus mastering. Either of these make it\npossible for I/O devices to move their data into and out of memory\nwithout interrupting the CPU. The alternative is for the CPU to move\nthe data. There are several SCSI interface cards that allow DMA and\nbus mastering. IDE, however, is defined by the standard AT interface\ncreated for the IBM PC AT, which requires the CPU to move all the data\nbytes, with no DMA.", "HI,\n I am looking for an X app that will display dxf files. These are\n ascii text files that are normally associated with autocad. I have\n a large 9 meg. file of the state of wisconsin that i would like to\n views and or cut into smaller chunks.\n\n I also would like to find a complete file layout for dxf files.\n\n Any information would be appreciated.\n\n", "\tI have a Gateway 4dx2/66v. Does anyone know if I csn (or can't)\nDuse 32 bit access?\nD\nD\n\n", "\n Wasn't the shareware fee a \"suggestion\" by John?\n Is so then it's up to the individual to make the choice whether or not to\n honour it and part with money. Personally if I was in his position I would\n do exactly the same thing, John has obviously put in lot of time and effort\n into xv and why shouldn't he receive some money for it.\n\nIt is interesting to look at the change(s) of mind that John has had.\n\nThe AUTHOR file for xgif (an early incarnation of xv) reads (in part) \nas follows...\n\n Do whatever you want with this program, though it *would* be nice if my name\n remained on it somewhere... Other than that, it may be freely modified,\n distributed, and used to fill up disk space.\n\nThe README file for xv 1.00 (?) reads (in part) as follows...\n\n NOTE: If you like the program and decide to use it, *please* send me a short\n email message to that effect. Be sure to mention the full name of your\n organization. When our sponsors ask us 'what have you been doing', it would\n be most handy to be able to come up with a nice long list of organizations\n that are using code developed in the GRASP Lab. Brownie points, as\n it were.\n\nThe copyright notices as it appeared then was...\n\n /*\n * Copyright 1989, 1990 by the University of Pennsylvania\n *\n * Permission to use, copy, and distribute for non-commercial purposes,\n * is hereby granted without fee, providing that the above copyright\n * notice appear in all copies and that both the copyright notice and this\n * permission notice appear in supporting documentation.\n *\n * The software may be modified for your own purposes, but modified versions\n * may not be distributed.\n *\n * This software is provided \"as is\" without any express or implied warranty.\n */\n\nThe README file for xv 2.00 reads (in part) as follows...\n\n Also, if you find XV to be nifty, useful, generally 'cool', and of\n some value to you, your donation (not tax-deductable) would be greatly\n appreciated. $10 (U.S.) is probably a fine amount to donate.\n Folks who donate $25 and up will receive a nice, bound copy of the XV Manual\n printed on a spiffo 600-dpi laser printer. It'll look lovely mounted over\n your fireplace.\n\nWhich looks to me as a suggestion (see Julian's comment above).\n\nThe copyright notices as it appeared then was...\n\n * Copyright 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992 by John Bradley and\n * The University of Pennsylvania\n\nThe README for xv 3.00 reads (in part) as follows...\n\n XV is shareware for PERSONAL USE only. You may use XV for your own\n amusement, and if you find it nifty, useful, generally cool, or of\n some value to you, your non-deductable donation would be greatly\n appreciated. $25 is the suggested donation, though, of course,\n larger donations are quite welcome. Folks who donate $25 or more\n can receive a printed, bound copy of the XV manual for no extra\n charge. If you want one, just ask. BE SURE TO SPECIFY THE VERSION\n OF XV THAT YOU ARE USING!\n\n Commercial, government, and institutional users MUST register their\n copies of XV, for the exceedingly REASONABLE price of just $25 per\n workstation/X terminal. Site licenses are available for those who\n wish to run XV on a large number of machines. Contact the author\n for more details.\n\nThe second paragraph to me says that universities MUST register and\npay (a potentially) large sum of money.\n\nThe copyright notices now read...\n\n * Copyright 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993 by John Bradley\n\nWas this developed on upenn's time/equipment? What do they, and the\nGRASP lab mentioned above, have to say about all this?", "store and reply of mouse and keyboard events\n--------------------------------------------\n\nTo produce regression tests or automatic demo's\nwe would like to store all mouse and keyboard events\nproduced by a user. It should be possible to filter\nthe mouse and keyboard events from the server's queue\nan to store them in a file.\nThis sequence of events, stored in a file, should be given \nto the server's queue as if a user is working.\n\n\n1. Exists a tool that is capable to save and reply all\n mouse and keyboard events (where)?\n\n2. Where one can catch these events to store them ?\n In our case the server's queue is on a X Terminal (HP).\n Where can we catch all events coming from a given\n server.\n If this is not possible, can we catch all events given\n to a certain client and how ?\n \n3. Where one can send a stored sequence of events to simulate a user ?\n Is there a central dispatcher on the clients machine who manages\n all incoming events from a given server and how can we reach it ?\n\n\nThanks in advance", "could \nconvenient\nthen\nand\ncalled Global\nearth. \nget\nmeters (on\n\nThought it means Global Positioning System. There are two precision levels, one \nfor army applications (killing has to be very accurate today) and one for civil \nones. The civil precision is about 20 to 30m (correct me, if I'm wrong), \nthough, it may be insufficiant for mapping buildings. But there is a way with \nan additional reference point (e.g. one fixed GPS system in a house) to get the \nsame high precision as the military version, but it gets pretty complicated \nthen. If You use a microwave system (actually this means some type of radar), \nYou need quite a lot of number crunching to get accurate vectorized data out of \nYour original signals. So the GPS system seems to be the better (and running) \nidea for Your application(there have been discussions in this newsgroup, don't \nknow of an address anymore).\n\nCheers Robert (HB9NBY) ", "\n You should try having a .xsession script in $HOME to do these\nthings. xdm will start up your process using the system version\n(usually /usr/lib/X11/xdm/Xsession), which should check whether you have\nyour won and change to that if you do. (Take a copy of the system one\nand edit it). \n\n Note, that this file requires \"x\" access to be set.", "Has anyone used a Hercules Graphite adapter? It looks good on paper, and\nSteve Gibson gave it a very good review in Infoworld. I'd love to get a\nreal-world impression, though -- how is the speed? Drivers? Support?\n\n(Looking for something to replace this ATI Ultra+ with...)\n", "\nSounds about right.\n\nIf there is high demand for a product there is little incentive to\naggresively cut prices. Once the demand fall off a bit, then is the\ntime to start getting aggressive with pricing. Waiting too long can\nreally hurt your business though :-)\n\nThe PowerBooks have sold very well up to now, if they are slowing\ndown Apple needs to come out with some lower priced versions (the\nonly reason I own a PowerBook is that I could spring for a $900 PB100,\nthe rest of the lineup is way to pricey for me). I'd bet they'll\nbe coming out with more power versions too.", "Hi!... \n\nI am searching for packages that could handle Multi-page GIF\nfiles... \n\nAre there any on some ftp servers?\n\nI'll appreciate one which works on PC (either on DOS or Windows 3.0/3.1).\nBut any package works on Unix will be OK..", "We're all set to buy one of these for the office, to use for scanning in\ncolor photographs and for optical character recognition. We've played with\nthe original grayscale OneScanner and were very pleased. Is the color model\ncomparable in quality?\n\nAlso, what brand of OCR software would you recommend? We're leaning toward\nCaere OmniPage. Any better ideas? Thanks.\n", "\n\nThe following program is a very quick hack I created a few months\nago to determine whether a Sun Sparcstation IPC could perform\nreal-time, full-duplex encrypted audio with resulting data rates\nsustainable by today's modems.\n\nThis test program reads linearly-encoded audio from the audio device,\ncompresses it with GSM 06.10 (compresses frames of 160 13-bit samples\nrecorded at 8kHz into 260 bits resulting in a 50 Hz frame rate), encrypts\nit with DES, then reverses the process and sends the reconstructed audio\nback to the audio device. The compressed, encrypted audio stream\nis 13 kbits/s (!).\n\nMy Sparcstation IPC (not exactly a very fast machine these days,\ncertainly slower than an ELC) would just barely sustain this activity\n(audio underruns would occcur but the speech was very intelligible). I\nran it as a real-time process to get the best results. Remember,\nthough, that this program is a quick hack and the performance can\ncertainly be improved.\n\nThe audio compression routines can be ftp'd from tub.cs.tu-berlin.de,\nI believe (look for gsm or toast). I used Eric Young's DES\nimplementation but I no longer know where I got it from.\n\nCheers!greg\n\n<--------------------------- CUT HERE ----------------------------->\n/*\n * Test program to see how much CPU it takes for secure digital audio.\n * Written by G. Onufer (greg@cheers.Bungi.COM).\n *\n * Written on a Sun IPC running Solaris 2.2 with a Sun ISDN S-Bus card\n * and a SpeakerBox.\n */\n#include \n#include \n#include \n#include \n#include \n#include \n#include \n\n#include \n#include \n\nboolean_t\nsvs_audio_init(int fd, audio_info_t *prev_info)\n{\n\taudio_info_t info;\n\n\tif (prev_info != NULL) {\n\t\tif (ioctl(fd, AUDIO_GETINFO, prev_info) < 0) {\n\t\t\tperror(\"AUDIO_GETINFO\");\n\t\t\treturn (B_FALSE);\n\t\t}\n\t}\n\n\tAUDIO_INITINFO(&info);\n\n\tinfo.record.pause = B_TRUE;\n\tinfo.play.pause = B_TRUE;\n\n\tinfo.play.sample_rate = 8000;\n\tinfo.play.encoding = AUDIO_ENCODING_LINEAR;\n\tinfo.play.channels = 1;\n\tinfo.play.precision = 16;\n\tinfo.record.sample_rate = 8000;\n\tinfo.record.encoding = AUDIO_ENCODING_LINEAR;\n\tinfo.record.channels = 1;\n\tinfo.record.precision = 16;\n\n\tinfo.record.buffer_size = 320 * 4;\n\n\tif (ioctl(fd, AUDIO_SETINFO, &info) < 0) {\n\t\tperror(\"AUDIO_SETINFO\");\n\t\treturn (B_FALSE);\n\t}\n\n\tif (ioctl(fd, I_FLUSH, FLUSHRW) < 0) {\n\t\tperror(\"I_FLUSH\");\n\t\treturn (B_FALSE);\n\t}\n\n\t\n\tAUDIO_INITINFO(&info);\n\n\tinfo.record.pause = B_FALSE;\n\tinfo.play.pause = B_FALSE;\n\n\tif (ioctl(fd, AUDIO_SETINFO, &info) < 0) {\n\t\tperror(\"AUDIO_SETINFO\");\n\t\treturn (B_FALSE);\n\t}\n\n\treturn (B_TRUE);\n}\n\n\nboolean_t\nsvs_in(int ifd, gsm handle, gsm_byte *buf)\n{\n\tgsm_signal sample[160];\n\n\tif (read(ifd, sample, sizeof (sample)) != sizeof (sample)) {\n\t\tfprintf(stderr, \"svs_in: short read\\n\");\n\t\treturn (B_FALSE);\n\t}\n\n\tgsm_encode(handle, sample, buf);\n\n\treturn (B_TRUE);\n}\n\n\nboolean_t\nsvs_out(int ofd, gsm handle, gsm_byte *buf)\n{\n\tgsm_signal sample[160];\n\n\tif (gsm_decode(handle, buf, sample) < 0) {\n\t\tfprintf(stderr, \"svs_out: gsm_decode failed\\n\");\n\t\treturn (B_FALSE);\n\t}\n\n\tif (write(ofd, sample, sizeof (sample)) != sizeof (sample)) {\n\t\tfprintf(stderr, \"svs_out: short write\\n\");\n\t\treturn (B_FALSE);\n\t}\n\n\treturn (B_TRUE);\n}\n\n\nmain()\n{\n\tgsm handle;\n\tgsm_frame frame;\n\tint audiofd;\n\tint option;\n\tdes_cblock key, ivec_in, ivec_out;\n\tdes_key_schedule ks_in, ks_out;\n\tdes_cblock cbuf_in[4], cbuf_out[4], cbuf_buf[4];\n\n\taudiofd = open(\"/dev/audio\", O_RDWR);\n\tif (audiofd < 0) {\n\t\tperror(\"open\");\n\t\texit(4);\n\t}\n\n\t/*\n\t * Initialize GSM compression code\n\t */\n\tif ((handle = gsm_create()) == NULL) {\n\t\tfprintf(stderr, \"svs: gsm_create failed\\n\");\n\t\texit(4);\n\t}\n\n\toption = B_TRUE;\n\tif (gsm_option(handle, GSM_OPT_FAST, &option) < 0) {\n\t\tfprintf(stderr, \"svs: gsm_option (FAST) failed\\n\");\n\t\texit(4);\n\t}\n\n\t/*\n\t * Initialize DES code\n\t */\n\tdes_random_key(&key);\n\n\tif (des_set_key(&key, ks_in) < 0) {\n\t\tfprintf(stderr, \"svs: des_set_key failed\\n\");\n\t\texit(4);\n\t}\n\tif (des_set_key(&key, ks_out) < 0) {\n\t\tfprintf(stderr, \"svs: des_set_key failed\\n\");\n\t\texit(4);\n\t}\n\tmemset(ivec_in, 0, sizeof (ivec_in));\n\tmemset(ivec_out, 0, sizeof (ivec_out));\n\n\t/*\n\t * Open audio device and configure it\n\t */\n\tif (!svs_audio_init(audiofd, NULL))\n\t\texit(3);\n\n\tfor (;;) {\n\t\t/*\n\t\t * Get 160 samples (16-bit linear 8000Hz) and\n\t\t * convert to a 33 byte frame\n\t\t */\n\t\tif (!svs_in(audiofd, handle, frame))\n\t\t\texit(1);\n\n\t\t/*\n\t\t * Encrypt/Decrypt block\n\t\t */\n\t\tdes_cbc_encrypt(frame, cbuf_out, (long)32, ks_in, ivec_in,\n\t\t DES_ENCRYPT);\n\t\tdes_cbc_encrypt(cbuf_out, cbuf_buf, (long)32, ks_out, ivec_out,\n\t\t DES_DECRYPT);\n\n\t\tmemmove(frame, cbuf_buf, 32);\n\n#if 0\n\t\tif (memcmp(cbuf_in, cbuf_buf, 32) != 0) {\n\t\t\tfprintf(stderr, \"svs: memcmp failed\\n\");\n\t\t\texit(4);\n\t\t}\n#endif\n\n\t\t/*\n\t\t * Take 33 byte frame and convert to 160 samples\n\t\t * and play\n\t\t */\n\t\tif (!svs_out(audiofd, handle, frame))\n\t\t\texit(2);\n\t}", "\nI am no expert on this. But I am pretty sure there is no way to recover this. IDE drive has mapping information written directly on drives. When you low level format it, the information itself is gone as well, I don't think you can get it back unless you send it back to Western Digital and ask them to refurbish it for you.", "\n\nBut the interesting comparision is how fast clock-cycle chips\nyou can get - an Alpha is WAY slow at 66 MHz, but blazes at\n200 MHz.\n\n\n\nBut the 68040 is (or will soon be) available in 40 MHz version,\nmaking it \"comparable\" to a 486DX2-80\n\n\nI think you have that one turned around; they have faster clock\ncycles but less power behind each cycle. Not to mention that the\nIntel instruction stream is BYTE-oriented (longest Intel instruction\nis 15 bytes; what an odd number :-) which makes it hard to do any\nintelligent memory subsystem.\n\nCheers,\n\n\t\t\t\t\t/ h+\n-- \n -- Jon W{tte, h+@nada.kth.se, Mac Hacker Deluxe --", "Is there an ftp site where I can get the MS speaker sound driver? There's\na \"sound.exe\" file that claims to be the driver but I'm suspicious since\nit's not a .drv file. \n\nThanks", "Word for Windows lets me designate text as being in a language other\nthan US English. (Alt-F L, Format | Language, as I recall.) So I mark\nit for English (UK), but it still accepts \"rumor\" and squawks at\n\"rumour\". As far as I can see, Microsoft didn't include the English\n(UK) dictionary on my disks. (I don't mean to imply that I was singled\nout; I assume that nobody in the U.S got them.) I dialed the Microsoft\nBBS, but nothing in the Word for Windows section looked helpful.\n\nCan anyone tell me where or how to obtain the UK spelling dictionary for\nWinword 2.0? The file name would be SPELL_UK.LEX or something similar.\n\nEmail please; I'll post a summary.", "A colleague has a bizarre font problem on his new MIPS workstation.\nWhen he first logs on (via xdm), he has a single xterm window appear\nwith the mwm window manager running. In this configuration, X windows\napplications (particularly xdvi) work fine. However, if he opens up a\nsecond xterm application, suddenly xdvi cannot start in either window,\ngiving the error: Unable to load ISO 8859-1 font.\n\n The only difference between the two xterm windows is that the initial\none references a different name in the Xsession file, with prettier\ncolours and other slight changes. Further investigation shows that only\nopening a default xterm causes this behaviour, and more significant, ALL\nX applications can no longer load any fonts if they are invoked from the\ncommand line in either window. If I start the xterm with a different\nfont (using the -fn option), no problems. It would seem that the\ndefault xterm is loading a font which somehow causes the server to lose\nall of its fonts. Note: xlsfonts in either window shows all of the\nfonts available, so there doesn't appear to be a problem in the font\ndirectories/hash-tables.\n\n Other than rewriting the XTerm app-defaults file to use a different\nfont and hope for the best, does anyone have any ideas?", "To: All\n\nGVC Technologies v.32 9600bps modem\n\n9600/4800/2400/1200/300 bps operation with Automatic Speed\nSelection.\nCCITT v.32/v.22bis/v.22/v.21 full-duplex operation.\nAsynchronous operation.\nAuto-answer & auto-dial: automatically switch between data and\nvoice transmission.\nSupports COM port 1-4, and IRQ 2-5\nAnalog/digital/remote digital loopback test modes.\nCommunication by Crosstalk software and manual included.\nModem manual & warranty registration card included.\n(Optional CCITT v.42bis/v.42/MNP 2-5 module, providing error\ncorrection and data compression to increase throughput up to\n38,400 bps, available directly from the manufacturer.)\nMint condition. $125.\nDO NOT REPLY TO: dino.fiabane@pics.com. Your mail will bounce if\nit is sent to that address. Instead, please reply only via\nprivate E-Mail to: pics!dino.fiabane@twwells.com\n(Since my home BBS can only handle personal messages through\nE-Mail for the time being, any further replies from me to you\nwill also arrive via E-Mail instead of by way of a regular\nnewsgroup.)\nDino Fiabane, 150 Weston Drive, Cherry Hill, NJ 08003-2132\nphone (609) 424-3836\n\n * SLMR 2.1a * reply to: pics!dino.fiabane@twwells.com via E-Mail\n ", "Dear All,\n\n\tI am trying to get my standard connection going with KA9Q (PA0GRI113016)\nand a GVC NIC-2000 ethernet card. I know that my router and modem is\nworking because I am able to ping, finger, and even telnetd with it.\n\n\tHowever, after a time, it crashes randomly. Help would be\ngreatly appreciated.\n\n\tI suspect that there is a hardware conflict in the PC. I am\nrunning with a 386SX/33, 2 MB Ram. The Ethernet card is configured\nfor IRQ 5, ports 0x360-0x37F. \n\n\tThanks in advance. I know that it's not much to go on, but I\ndon't even know what the questions to ask are, sorry.\n\nPlease send mail.", "I am continuing to collect user results to produce a more comprehensive\nreport on IIsi clock oscillator upgrades. I you have attempted the modification\nplease drop me a note with details of your experience. The more reports \nobtained, the more accurate the numbers I will generate.\n\nIf possible, please include the following:\n 1) Top speed achieved\n 2) System configuration at top Mhz setting\n a) speed rating of the CPU (the last two digits printed on CPU #)\n b) presence of additional heat sinks\n c) Nubus & FPU cards used\n d) floppy drive functionality on both 800 and 1.4 M disks\n 3) Damage incurred during modification\n 4) Damage due to higher speed use\n 5) Average length of time the CPU is on. (i.e. 8 hours a day)\n 6) Unusual other modifications to the usual procedure", "Hi!\nI got hold of an old Zenith 286 Laptop with model# ZWL-183-45\n\nThe hard-disk is dead but the rest seems to work. I took the Zenith apart and found a very strange\ndisk for wich I now try to replace.\n\nThe disk is marked JVC, model JD3824R00-1.\nHas anyone any specs. on this disk or suggestion where i can find it or a cheap replacement for it.\n\nThanks for your help.\n\n-- Michael\n\nMichael Thurbin (michael@pcmith.rks.se)\n", "I'm looking for any information regarding Text Search Engines... Specifically,\nI'd prefer source or binaries which will run in a MS-Windows and/or UNIX\nenvironment scanning either flat files or common DB structures...\n\nReferences to PD, Shareware, or Commercial implementations welcome...\n\nPlease reply via email -- I'll summarize if desired.\n\nThanx !", "\nThe host file requires the names that you'll be using in addition to the ip address\n\nsucb as\n\n100.0.0.1 name.server.name\n100.2.2.1 name.router.name", "\n\nIt really bums me out that xv went shareware.\n\n * XV is shareware for PERSONAL USE only. You may use XV for your own\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^\n What does this mean anyway? Can I sit in a company\n and look at pictures off the net in my spare time?\n\n * amusement, and if you find it nifty, useful, generally cool, or of\n * some value to you, your non-deductable donation would be greatly\n * appreciated. $25 is the suggested donation, though, of course,\n * larger donations are quite welcome. Folks who donate $25 or more\n * can receive a Real Nice bound copy of the XV manual for no extra\n * charge.\n *\n * Commercial, government, and institutional users MUST register their\n * copies of XV, for the exceedingly REASONABLE price of just $25 per\n * workstation/X terminal. Site licenses are available for those who\n * wish to run XV on a large number of machines. Contact the author\n * for more details.\n\nNow since universities are institutions (right?), doesn't this mean that\nmost everyone in the world is affected by this? (I don't believe there\nare that many running X windows at home yet, relatively speaking).\n\nCan the author legally sell xv? Xv uses tiff and jpeg code developed\nby others. Did the author get permission to sell these works? Did\nthe author also get permission from all the people who contributed to\nxv to sell their work as well?\n\nMy guess is that now nobody is going to want to help the author\nmaintain the code anymore now that xv has become a commercial product,\nand support for xv will begin to slide downhill.\n\nIf this is the case, then that's a bummer. I really liked xv.\n", "How does one print to a non-appletalk printer using DMM LaserWriter Stuff.\n\nI'm using the Serial driverand does nothig. I'vetried saving a postscriptfile and then tried sending with SendPS2.0 and it says can'topen LaserWriter Driver,\nthen some appletalk messagethatprinter not specified. I'm using and imagewritwrite one cable. Should I use a null-modem adapter? Help...\n\n---Lowell", "WinFax Pro provides you with OCR. It is the OCR from OmniPage.\n\tAlthough it is not as customizable it does the job and is auto\n\tmatic (if you want) and much cheaper than the same package\n\t(Omni Page Professional = $700) sold separatly.", "\n\nWhat is MTEZ? A dealer? A repository? Any details?\n\n--\nPenio Penev x7423 (212)327-7423 (w) Internet: penev@venezia.rockefeller.edu", "I purchased an LCIII recently and had heard a bit about a re-work of the\nlogic board. I opened mine up and found the same re-work, with a small\nchip glued to the board and a couple of green wires running from it to two \nother chips. I'd like to know more about it. Could anyone with any or all of\nthe following information please post it? Thanks a bunch.\n\n1.\tWhat does the re-work accomplish (i.e., what does it fix)?\n2.\tWhat are the technical details of the re-work? (I'm looking for\n\tthings such as the purpose of the chips with the new wires connected,\n\tand the pin-outs for those chips.)\n3.\tIs a board with the re-work any different functionally from one without?\n4.\tCould the re-worked boards be incompatible with future releases of\n\tthe operating system?\n\n\tand, finally,\n\n5.\tShould I even be concerned about any of this?\n\n", "This is a followup post to something I've written previously. Several\npeople responded with good information, but I don't think I communicated \nexactly what I am looking for.\n\tI'm working on a custom I/O device that will communicate with a host\nvia RS-232. My custom circuitry will use an 80C186EB or EC CPU and require\nabout 64K of RAM (preferably FLASH RAM). In looking around, I see that lots\nof people have engineered UART-CPU-ROM-RAM subsystems that are ready to be\ninterfaced to your custom I/O devices. It's been done so much, that it \nwould be best if I can avoid reinventing a system. It just needs to use\nan 80C186 (or 188) CPU, and be able to load a program from the host then \ntransfer control to that program. Well, there's one other thing the ROM\nneeds to know how to do. It should have routines to send and receive bytes\nto/from the host, that utilize the hardware control lines (DTR,RTS,DTS,CTS).\nEverything I've seen is in the $200.00 and up range. That's too much for\nthis application. I need something around $100.00. The CPU has the UART\nbuilt-in, so you're only looking at a few chips. Does anyone know a \ncompany that markets a good board in this range, or some public domain \ncircuitry I can use? Thanks in advance for the info.", "When is Apple supposed to start bundlign the new ergonomic ADB Mouse\nII with all CPUs sold?\n\njas\n\n--", "I am trying to design a small 90mW 472MHz FM transmitter for remote alarm\nuse.\n\nIs there an FM transmitter IC available that can be used for this purpose?\n\nAny help, circuits, info etc will be greatfully accepted.\n\nPlease reply to bsc_graham@seqeb.gov.au\n\nThanks in advance.", "I would like to sell my camcorder. I havent used it much and I need the\nmoney.\n\nPanasonic PV-17 VHS-C Palmcorder\n\n-High Speed Shutter\n-Flying Erasr Head\n-8:1 Power Zoom\n-Digital Autp Tracking\n-Audio/Video Dubbing\n-Auto Tracking\n-Digital Automatic Focus\n-Book Mark Search\n-Record Review\n-Automatic White Balance\n-CCD Image Sensor\n-HQ System\n\nIncludes:\n-Rechargeable battery\n-Battery charger\n-VHS PlayPak adapter\n-4 Compact video cassettes\n-All original docs, cables, box, etc.\n\nI got it new in Sept. '92 and used it a total of about 20-25 times.\nThe battery has been charged less than 5 times. This thing is in\nbrand-new condition.\n\nI am asking $550. Make me an offer.", "My HP720 workstation uses PseudoColor (id 0x21, 255 colors) as the", "Could somebody please _email_ me some info on either what gif or iff\nfile formats are, or where I can get such info?\n\n\nthanx", "Our university is wanting to buy a couple of servers to provide Email\nto students (@ 2300) and faculty (@ 250). Two servers are being\nlokked at for one to provide news service and one mail service from a\nproposed Internet connection. Are there any foreseable problems with\nthis proposed set up? Provided that IHETs is providing an Ethernet\nline from a Cisco router into our network.\n\n2 X \t486 DX 50 MHz\n\tSMC Elite 32 or 32TP EISA NIC\n\tDual Duplexed 2.5Gb SCSI-2 \n \twith 5yr parts and labor on everything but the hard drives\n\trunning UNIVEL UNIX for Application Servers\n\nWe will run CC:Mail on a campus wide Novell network to access these\n. Is there any other aspect I should be looking at?\n\n\n\nWhich NIC do I use? \nIs this enough disk space?\netc...\n\n \nAny help would be greatly appreciated.\n ", "\nNo, I'd rather not. First of all, I don't have exact figures, and I don't\nwant to disclose how I know this. However, I will say that Jim Francis\nfrom Microsoft just posted a figure of $26 million (payment from IBM to\nBorland) and that's somewhere in the range that I've heard.", "I need to buy a SCSI controler for my 486 machine to use with a quantum \n425F harddrive. I know that adaptec is good, but they are kind of \nexpensive. Essentially I want a controller in the $100-$150 range that I\ncan use with this drive. I plan to use Windows and later on OS 2.1 when it \ncomes out. Any reccomendations appreciated.\n\n-Eric", "Hi all,\n\nI am looking for a new oscilloscope (BK 1541-B, it looks like, Goldstar OS904S\nif I can find one cheap enough) and would like suggestions on a low-priced\nsource for them.\n\n(Currently, BTW, Fry's electronics in Los Angeles has the 1541-B for $598,\n the best price I've seen overall for now - They carry the GS OS902S for \n $490, but I need the 904S because of the 40 MHz B/W)\n\nThanks all.", "My Windows 3.1 installation has somehow gone awry. Whenever I try to run\nWindows now, the logo comes up OK, but when it tries to enter Windows\nitself, the screen gets totally screwed up as if it's in the wrong\ngraphics mode or something. It's completely illegible although functional\nas I can still exit to DOS with an ALT-E RETURN combination.\n\nI tried to reinstall Windows again, but if you recall, halfway through the\ninstallation process, install takes you into Windows and there my graphics\nproblem surfaces again so I cannot complete the re-installation.\n\nAll this started after trying to get a game working on my system but my\nconfig.sys and autoexec.bat have been restored to what they were before\nthis problem cropped up.\n\nI'm running a 486-33DX with a Diamond Stealth VRAM (I've resinstalled the\nStealth video drivers again but with no luck). I'm also using QEMM and\nStacker 3.0 but Windows is installed on an un-stacked partition. And of\ncourse, it worked perfectly before.\n\nAny email replies and suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.", "I have a 486DX-33 ISA pc-compatible (Insight) with an Infotel internal\n14.4FAX/14.4data modem with QuickLinkII for Windows. When I first put the\nmodem in, I pulled a phone out of the jack in another room, and ran a phone\nline extension to my surge protector and then my computer. The modem\nworked fine. Then I split the line from the jack in the other room, ran\nthe line into my room into the surge protector and up to my computer. Then\nI got a regular phone and plugged that into the phone jack in the modem.\nNow when I try to use the modem, QuickLinkII says \"No dialtone\". The phone\nplugged into the back of the computer works fine. I tried unplugging the\nphone, but still no dice. Is it that the phone line was split too many\ntimes? (I don't understand how this could be a problem, since the phone\nworked fine.) Please note: none of the software or hardware parameters\nwere changed, only the phone line itself. Is my new modem faulty? What\ncan I do? \n", "Depends on the FDC but generally No. The drive at the end after the twist \nshould be set as Drive 0\nSince you're using the 5.25 as drive A: it should be at the end after the \ntwist with the resistor pack fitted.\nYes\n\nHope this helps. I had exactly the same problems. Unfortunately when\nI changed to different machine the problems started again because\nof a different FDC. Seems (don't flame me, this is mainly guess work\nfrom practicle experience) that some FDC's do different things with the \nselect.", "Hosfelt\nT-1 stock # 25-214\nT-1-3/4 # 25-213\nBoth $1.29 - Vf 3.0..3.4, 470nm, 3mcd @ 10ma, Mfg Liton\nCall 1-800-524-6464\nDisclaimer - dont know these guys from a bar of soap, but the price\nlooks reasonable.\n", "\nBuy Adobe Streamline. Problem solved.\n", "I wanted to create a postcript file with Win#.1, to print it on a\nlaserwriter II. It created a postcript file version adobe 3.0, but our\nlaser accept only adobe 2.0. How resolve this problem??\n", "\nI had this problem as well - It had to do with the CG6 graphics card that\ncomes with the IPX. What fixed the problem for me was to apply the \"sunGX.uu\"\nthat was part of Patch #7. Patch #1 also used this file so perhaps you\ndidn't apply the one that came with Patch #7.\n\njeff", ": > This is not a new idea. At least 10 years ago I got this little gadget with\n: > a keyboard on the back and 8 LED's in a vertical row on the front. It has a\n: > long handle and when you wave it in the air it \"writes\" the message you typed\n: > on the keyboard in the air. \n: \n: This is not news. In fact it's where I got the idea from, since it was\n: such a neat item. Mattell made it, I believe, modeled after a \"space \n: saber\" or \"light sword\" or something likewise theme-y. My addition was \n: using a motor for continuous display, and polar effects in addition to \n: character graphics. I should have protected it when I had the chance. \n: No one to kick but myself...\n: \n: Ten years ago is about right, since I built mine in '84 or '85.\n\nIt's even older than that. I remember seeing a description of\na garage operation selling them at some of the early Computer Faires \nin San Francisco about 5 years before that.\n", "Anyone able to get xwd to dump anything that is not black & white?\n\nMy text is not black....all I get is window borders. I tried the -xy\noption only because I didn't know what it did.....still no effect.", "Sell it for $10, then. I can't really offer more than $8 at\nthis point.", "Does antone know the ftp address for the Smithsonian Institution\nwhere one can get digitized photographs, etc ?\nPlease reply by email to \npbenson@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu\n\nThanks", "\n\nThe original Mac II had an Apple MMU chip installed which performs a subset\nof the 68851's functions. If you look underneath your front left floppy\nbay you will find three chips, all approximately the same size. One will\nbe the 68020, the next the 68881, and the third, approximately the same\nsize, will be the Apple chip. It is easy to spot because it has a 'hump'\nin the middle of it.\n\n\nExample:\n\n\n -----------\n / \\\n --------------- ---------------\n | |\n | |\n\nThat and the Apple logo should make it easy to find.", "\nHowever, also be aware that Implementor's notes are basicly\nrecommendations, they are *NOT* part of the spec. As others have\nnoted, many vendors (including SGI) violate this. Indeed, the main\npoint is to reduce impedance changes, and therefore reflections, and\ntherefore 'noise' on the bus.", "PLease take these and use them. Take advantage of me... I really\ndon't know what they are worth.\n\nQty 2 - Canoga Perkins Fiber Optic Modems, Model 2250, RS-422\n Interface, appear new. I have powered up but that's all,\n I have not used them and I cannot tell you whether they\n work or not. \n Make Offer.........\n\nQty 1 - ISC Datacom RF Modem, Model 1056-TX1-RX5-SM-120, Interface\n RS-449, Internal Fan, powers up fine but otherwise condition\n unknown, Phone # for the company is 408-747-0300.\n\n Make Offer ............\n\nQty 1 - Motorola UDS 212 A/D Modem, RS-232 interface appears to work\n but I have not and cannot check it. \n\n Make Offer .............\n\nThanks and please buy this stuff or it goes out the door", "\nWhat string did you use to do this?", "I've changed the battery in the thing (shortly after the problem first\nhappened) and I've noticed an inordinate number of Bus errors lately...\n", "For Sale:\n\nInformix WingZ Graphic Spreadsheet with Hyperscript\n-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-\n\n Version 1.1\n Runs under Windows\n Network ready\n 5.25\" distribution\n\n Brand new, Unopened\n\n $150\n\n Shipping not included\n\nEmail queries, responses, flames to:", "WESTER DIGITAL - Caviar 280 Internal Hard Drive\n 85.3 MB 3.5\" Half Height IDE\n 1.5 Years Old\n Great Shape!\n\n $160 or closest offer!", "\n\n\n\nIt is not just you. I have been aggravated many times by the mouse making\nhay of my maladroitness, and would be _ever_ grateful to everyone who would\nmake keyboard alternatives for ALL mouse actions.", "Howdy,\n\nSorry if this has been covered before:\n\nOne of my PC illiterate friends asked me to help him install DRDOS 6.0 on his\nNEC Powermate SX (386SX 16). Of course, I said \"No problem\" and went to work.\nUnfortunately, the DRDOS refuses to recognize the hard drive during \ninstallation, even though I am still able to boot off of the hard drive using\nthe old DOS. After openning it up I discovered it was using an 8-bit \nSeagate SCSI controller on a ST-157N SCSI 40Mbtye drive. I then booted \nwith DRDOS 6.0 off of the floppy a second time and ran fdisk to see if \nI could access the drive. Lo and behold the primary 46.5 Mbyte partition \nwas intact (created by DOS 3.1 no less, I didn't think you could go over a\n32Mbyte partition in the older DOSes. I could be wrong...). I then tried \nto remove the primary partition, which it wouldn't allow me to do. I am \nunaware of anything special that has to be done with a SCSI drive (I \nkinda expected it to work just like an IDE/MFM/RLL drive for DOS \ninstallations). Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated (except for \n\"Throw it in the garbage and buy a new PC\")...\n\nThanks in advance,", "I am having a problem with the high order bit of a character being \nclipped when entered in an xterm window under motif. I have reprogrammed\nthe F1 key to transmit a character sequence by using the\nfollowing line in .Xdefaults:\n\n~Ctrl ~Shift ~Alt F1 : string(0xff) string(0xbe) \\n\\\n\nI merge in this line with xrdb -merge and then create the new xterm\nwhich has the remapped F1 key. The problem that arises is that the \napplication which is recieving input at the time only sees a <7f> <3e>\nsequence, which is with the high order bit of each\ncharacter being filtered or ignored.\n\nWhen I run xev and press the F1 key, I get the correct value showing \nup in the following two key events:\n\n KeyPress event, serial 14, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,\n root 0x28, subw 0x0, time 2067815294, (67,80), root:(74,104),\n state 0x0, keycode 16 (keysym 0xffbe, F1), same_screen YES,\n XLookupString gives 0 characters: \"\"\n\n KeyRelease event, serial 16, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,\n root 0x28, subw 0x0, time 2067815406, (67,80), root:(74,104),\n state 0x0, keycode 16 (keysym 0xffbe, F1), same_screen YES,\n XLookupString gives 0 characters: \"\"\n\nNotice that the keysym being transmitted is correct; 0xffbe.\nBut when I use the F1 key while in vi or in a program I wrote to \nspit back the hex values of keyboard input, I only get <7f> <3e>.\n\nDoes anyone know why the high order bit is being filtered and what\nI can do to make sure that the entire 8bits make it through to\nthe final application? Any help is greatly appreciated.\n\nPlease *email* any responses.", "I'm thinking about upgrading my 030 50MHz to the 040 33version. Has anyone\nhad any experience with the accelerator, and if so - what do you think?\nAny problems, what are the speedometer results?, is it much faster than\nthe 50MHz? Basically, I'd appreciate hearing all about this product. Please\nrespond via email, and I'll summarize if there's a big response. thanks\nin advance, Andrew\n", "I have a question regarding sending a NULL character across ethernet\nconnection. The actual problem is that emacs (Unix editior) needs\nthe NULL character for setting a mark and unfortunately we don't know\nhow to sent that from IBM PCs across ethernet. I am wondering if anyboy\nknows the keyboard combination for sending the NULL character. \nBTW control,shift 2 which Ctrl @ does not work.\n\nThanks", " Uh... slight clarification: That should be a printer driver for the\nc.itoh LIPS10 laser printer.\n Thanks again\n-- ", "I'm not familiar at all with the format of these \"X-Face:\" thingies, but\nafter seeing them in some folks' headers, I've *got* to *see* them (and\nmaybe make one of my own)!\n\nI've got \"dpg-view\" on my Linux box (which displays \"uncompressed X-Faces\")\nand I've managed to compile [un]compface too... but now that I'm *looking*\nfor them, I can't seem to find any X-Face:'s in anyones news headers! :-(\n\nCould you, would you, please send me your \"X-Face:\" header?\n\nI *know* I'll probably get a little swamped, but I can handle it.\n\n\t...I hope.", "\nTry searching for DMORF, I think it's located on wuarchive.wustl.edu in a\nmirror directory... I've used it before, & it was pretty good!", "What's the latest and greatest way to dim incandescent lamps ?\n\nMarch '93 Circuit Cellar has part one of an article about\ndimming 120VAC lamps, but it seems to lead into phase-\ncontrol as the best method for controlling brightness.\n I've always hated phase-control for the RFI, buzzing\nfilaments and non-linear adjustment range. I had\nheard that you can modulate the AC line on a cycle by\ncycle basis to get better results. To cut the lamp's\npower to 50% you would givemsay 20 cycles of AC, then\nnothing for another 20 cycles. I wonder if anyone has\ntried this or knows what the pro stuff is using. Any\nadvice is appreciated!\n\nKen\n", "How can I find these files and graphics that people\nare downloading from their Unix systems? Then, how\ndo I download them? I am a complete beginner in\nthis (obviously), so please baby-step me through\nthe process. First of all, I don't see amongst\nthese newsgroups where there is anything remotely\nlike a GIF, TIF, or compiled shareware program?\n\nThanks in advance for any information you can\ngive me. (I know there is a Unix command, \"ftp,\"\nthat will allow me to do this, but first I\nneed to know where to go to find the file\nI want download via ftp, etc.\n\nThomas Helke\negret@wet.UUCP ", "\nBut the impressive performance of the Graphite was\nnot its Winmark, it was its Wintach result (esp. the paint\nperformance). Judging from the Wintach tests, I can hardly\nimagine that there is a cheat driver for it.", "Hello,\n\nCan anyone give me their opinion on which system has got the best overall\nsystem performance;\n\n486/66DX2 with ISA-BUS or\n486/50DX2 with EISA-BUS\n\nThe systems are equal in all other areas.\n\nThanks in advance\n\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\njesper honig spring, spring@diku.dk | IF ANIMALS BELIEVED IN GOD \nuniversity of copenhagen, denmark | THE DEVIL WOULD BE A MAN", "\nTrue enough, but...\n\n\nZilog SCC:\n---------\n\tRR0[7]: Break Detect\n\nThis is a very popular part, but it has a number of quirks, especially\nin HDLC mode.\n\nSignetics 68562 DUSCC:\n---------------------\n\tRSR[2]: Break Start Detect\n\tRSR[3]: Break End Detect\n\nTwo of the bits in the Receiver Status Register. You can enable an interrupt\non either of these bits going high, too. Also, only one NULL will be put\nin the FIFO per break detected.\n\nThis is simply the best serial chip I've ever worked with. _Many_ less\nquirks than the SCC, which is IMHO second-best. (Death to 8250 devices!)\n", "\n\n\nNewsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system\nFrom: probulf@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Frank Probul)\nSubject: Re: A/ROSE with Centris and Quadra models\nOrganization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany\nDate: Mon, 19 Apr 1993 14:33:26 GMT\n\nA/ROSE = Apple Real Time Operating System Environment\n\nThis is a system extension for these NuBUS cards using the \nMCP (= Macintosh Coprocessor Platform). The MCP-cards are NuBUS cards with a\nMotorola 68000-Processor and 512 KB RAM (expandable to 1 Meg).\nMCP is a development platform for hardware-designers so they can use a card\nwith an own processor and thus the main processor isn't needed for these cards.\nCurrently the only cards I know are\n\n- the Apple TokenRing-Card\n- the new Apple Ethernet-Card\n- the Apple NuBUS serial card\n\nPerhaps there are some third-party-cards, but I don't know.\n\n\n---------------------------------------------\nFrank Probul\nEmanuelstr. 17, D-8000 Munich 40, Germany\n\nAppleLink: Probul.F@AppleLink.Apple.COM\ninternet: probulf@informatik.tu-muenchen.de\n\nMunich University of Technology\nDepartment of Computer Science\nGermany", "For all those people flaming John Bradley, the author of xv - he's on\nvacation till May 10 (or 15, I don't remember). Maybe we all should slow\ndown and wait to hear his side wrt copyrights, fees, etc.", "\nGCC and other big programs seemed to crash about 15% of the time for me.\ngcc gave something like \"program as got fatal signal 11\" and when doing\nanything past the complexity of elvis, kermit, etc, I got kernel general\nprotection faults at *least* once a session.\n\nI disabled my cache as suggested, and bingo, Linux is as stable as a rock\n(it hasn't given me a core dump or kernel error yet).\n\nDoes any one know why the cache would do something like this?\n\nAldy\n--\nhernandz@andrews.edu", " $17-20/piece.\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n I assume you are talking about 1meg X 9 SIMMs, or 1Meg X 9 SIPPs with\nspeed of 70ns? I would take 10K pieces per week if you have that price.\n(FOB US port).\n\n I am not waiting for an offer with that price, I could only dream.\n\ntiger\n", "\n\n\n\nDoes this need to have anything to do with disk compression? I have \nexperienced the same thing a couple of times myself, but *without* any disk \ncompression stuff installed. (For example, guess what happened when Norton \nSpeedDisk once crashed during defragmenting!)\n\nBjorn-\n\n* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *\n Bjorn Myrland * bjorn.myrland@sipaa.sintef.no\n SINTEF Safety and Reliability * N-7034 Trondheim, NORWAY", "I've found a problem in the use of Xlib functions regarding re-entrancy. I\ndecided to implement an animated cursor (using 6 created cursors) by calling\nXDefineCursor from a SIG_ALRM signal handler. This is used to indicate we are\nwaiting for a operator request to complete. (on a production control system).\nI was redrawing the screen underneath the animated cursor and then restoring\nthe standard cursor when complete. I found dumped core , and upon analysis\nit was when the SIG_ALRM handler was called during a XDrawString call. XDrawString\nwas doing a bcopy (presumably an internal structure) when the XDefineCursor\nwas called. Presumably the (internal) structure that XDrawString was manipulating\nwas not in a stable state and sent XDefineCursor to where it shouldn't have been.\n\nHas anyone else experienced this? Is there any official documentation that\nsays you should ensure this doesn't happen? Or should bcopy() be atomic.\nWe are running on SGI Irix 4.0.1 with X11R4.\n\n\n\n-- \nRegards, Martin", "I just purchased a Viewsonic 17 and and Orchid P9000. In short, I am happy\nwith the monitor and unhappy with the card. I have spent a lot more time\nfutzing with the card, so that is what I am going to write about. The monitor\nis pretty. The moires I had under Simcity on my 17\" Magnavox went away. It\nisn't as heavy as I thought it would be (45 lbs, I think). So much for the\nmonitor. On to the bitch session and test results.\n\nIn going with the modern trend, the Orchid P9000 card only supports 16 colors\nin 640x480 mode without a driver. Of course, this breaks any DOS program\nwhich uses SVGA modes (like most of my CD-ROMs). The Compudyne Whiplash VGA,\nOrchid Fahrenheit 1280, and Orchid F. VLB all share this limitation. Those\nare all S3 cards, which means it is an S3 problem for them (the P9000 uses\na Weitek VGA chip which also doesn't support them). The Hercules Graphite\ncard does seem to have these modes, but I didn't run the same test cases as\nI did on the other boards during the brief time I had it. It was able to\nprint the splash screen for the Grolier's Encyclopedia, though, which the S3\ncards just printed as hash, which is why I suspect the SVGA modes are supported.\n\nThe supported resolutions really annoy me. You can do 1280x1024 at 75Hz if\nyou tell the driver you have an NEC 5FG (they only have about six monitors\nlisted plus 'Generic', and if you choose Generic you can't get any high\nrefreshes at ALL). But at 1024x768 you are limited to 70Hz. Seems to me\nthat the hardware should be able to support the bandwidth (if it can do 75Hz\nat 1280 it sure should be able to do it at 1024!). Higher vertical resolution\nwas the main reason I bought the card over the Orchid F. VLB I currently have,\nand it will do 1024x768x70 Hz as well.\n\nThe higher graphics modes all crash HP Dashboard. I just got off the phone\nwith Orchid, and with the 1.1 drivers (I don't know what I have) he was unable\nto recreate the problem. On the plus side, their tech rep was as helpful as\nhe could be and booted up the program on his computer to verify he didn't have\nthe problem. He didn't know why they limited the refresh to 70 Hz either.\n\nThe board is faster that the OFVLB for most things according to the Hercules\nSpeedy program. This program tests various operations and reports the results\nin pixels/second. I don't have the numbers for the Graphite card, but they\nwere close to half of the OFVLB (ie, slower) but that was running in a 20MHz\n386, ISA, so the numbers aren't really comparable. The following numbers\nwere all obtained using a 486, 33 MHz, AIR motherboard (UMC chipset), with\n8 MB memory. I give ranges because the program reports the numbers as it\ncomputes them, and these tend to jump around a bit.\n\n\nK means thousand (not 1024), M means million, pixels per second\n\n Orchid Fahrenheit VLB Orchid P9000\nChip S3 805 Weitek 9000\nDIB to Screen 182K - 190K 228K - 240K\nMemory to Screen 5.9M - 6.2M 8.4M - 8.9M\nScreen to Screen 14M - 14.8M 29M - 30.8M\nVector, solid 2.4M 2.8M - 2.9M\nVector, styled 55K - 58K 449K - 473K\nPolygon, shaded 1.8M - 2.1M 1.6M - 1.9M\nPolygon, hatched 6.9M - 7.9M 1.3M - 1.7M\nTernary Rops 1.9M - 2.4M 477K - 520K\nFont 130K - 160K 46K - 55K / 1.2M\n\nThe DIB to Screen test takes a device independent bitmap of a face and transfers\nit to the screen. I have no idea what is being done internally as far as\nconversions go. The memory to screen takes the same face and copies it to\nthe screen, my guess is after it has been rasterized into a bitmap that can\njust be copied to the video display. The screen to screen test copies that\nface from place to place on the screen. Awesome! Interestingly, the solid\nvectors and shaded polygons show no improvement, and hatched polygons (ie,\nfilled with cross-hatching) and Ternary Rops (whatever they are. Graphics\noperations like XORs maybe????) are a dead loss on the 9000. I give two\nnumbers for the 9000 fonts, because I think they are caching.\nWhen the fonts are first drawn on the screen they are done fairly slowly --\n1/3 the speed of the OFVLB. Then the speed increases dramatically. Sounds\nlike programming to a benchmark to me....\n\nI make no claims that these numbers mean anything at all. Its just what\nI saw when I ran them on my computer. I normally don't write disclaimers,\nbut this time maybe I'd better. My testing is totally unconnected with my\nwork (I program under UNIX on Decstations) is done completely without the\nknowledge, blessing, or equipment of my company.", "\nI don't know how many hours you've spent on this, but the Sun User\nGroup makes X11R5 available on CD-ROM to its members. The 1992.1 disk\nhas both sources and binaries and it sells for $50. I've tagged a\ntable of contents and an orderform on below if anyone's interested.\n\nAlex Newman\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nAlex Newman\t(617) 232-0514 voice\tMy life may be stressful,\ntroll@sug.org\t(617) 232-1347 fax\tbut at least it's not boring\nSun User Group * 1330 Beacon St., #315 * Brookline, MA 02146\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n\f\n\n\nSUG CD 1992.1 is X11R5 and GNU on a CDROM, priced at $50 to SUG\nmembers, including a caddy!\n\nSUG's emphasis has always been on supplying the greatest possible\nservice and value-added to our members. Last year, the SUG 1991 disk\ncontained plug-and-play X11R4, 20MB of additional essential binaries,\nalmost 200MB of Sun patches, fully-indexed archives of Sun-related net\npostings, priced at only $250.\n\nOur aim this year has been to reduce the price for disks which can be\nproduced inexpensively, but to continue to supply as much value-added\nas possible. To accomplish this, we will be putting out a two disk\nset, the first containing what's ready and needed now, the second\navailable later in '92, containing more SPARC binaries and other\nuseful material not found on previous disks.\n\nThe SUG 1992.1 disk, which was assembled by Robert A. Bruce, contains\na lot of essential source code, and we decided it would be a great\nservice to make it available right away to our members (and this\npricing makes this a good opportunity to become a member!) for $50 per\ndisk (including one of those hard-to-find caddies!). If you are not a\nSUG member, you can become one for an additional $40 if you live\nwithin the US or $55 outside.\n\nThe SUG 1992.1 CDROM is an ISO 9660 disk (which means it can be used\nby PC, Macintosh, and other workstations as well), and contains a\ntotal of 543MB of material, including:\n\nX11R5 SOURCES AND CORE BINARIES (for SPARC) as of several weeks after\nthe initial distribution, thus, four fixes and the the MIT contrib-0\ndistribution are included (109MB of material). Binaries for: X Xsun\nXsunMono appres atobm auto_box bdftopcf beach_ball bitmap bmtoa\nconstype editres fs fsinfo fslsfonts fstobdf ico imake kbd_mode\nlistres lndir makedepend maze mkdirhier mkfontdir oclock plbpex puzzle\nresize showfont showrgb startx twm viewres x11perf x11perfcomp xauth\nxbiff xcalc xclipboard xclock xcmsdb xcmstest xconsole xcutsel\nxditview xdm xdpr xdpyinfo xedit xev xeyes xfd xfontsel xgas xgc xhost\nxinit xkill xload xlogo xlsatoms xlsclients xlsfonts xmag xman xmh\nxmkmf xmodmap xon xpr xprop xrdb xrefresh xset xsetroot xstdcmap xterm\nxwd xwininfo xwud\n\nCOPIES OF CONTRIBUTED X SOURCES (from export.lcs.mit.edu/contrib),\nwhich were then uncompressed/untarred into source directories (212MB).\nThese are sources only, and some of them were (after the date of\nproduction of this disk) included in the MIT contrib-2 and contrib-3\ndistributions.\n\nGNU SOURCES WHICH WERE uncompressed/untarred into source directories\n(88MB).\n\nSPARC BINARIES (and needed libraries) for these GNU programs: a2p ar\nas basename bash bison cat cc1 cc1plus chgrp chmod chown ci cmp co\ncomm compress cp cpio cpp ctags cut cvs date dd df diff diff3 dir\ndirname du egrep elvis emacs env etags expand expr fgrep find\nfind2perl flex fold g++ g++dep g++filt gawk gcc gdb ginstall gnuchess\ngnuchessn gnuchessr gnugo gnuplot gnuplot_x11 gprof grep h2ph head id\nident indent ispell ld ld++ less ln locate logname ls m4 make merge\nmkdir mkfifo mkmodules mknod mt mv nice nm oleo paste pathchk perl pr\nprintenv printf ranlib rcs rcsdiff rcsinfo rcsmerge rcstest ref refont\nrlog rm rmdir rmt s2p screen sed size sleep split strip stty sum tac\ntail taintperl tar tee test time touch tput tty uname unexpand uniq\nvdir virec whoami xargs xchess yes zmore\n\nAN ARCHIVE OF COMP.SOURCE.X postings, volume 0 through volume14\n(58MB). Parts are supplied just as posted. You get to put together\nthe pieces, compile, install, etc.\n\nCost: SUG members: $50; Non-members: additional $40 within the US, $55\n\telsewhere \nShipping & Handling: $10 inside the USA; $25 elsewhere\n\nMail to: Sun User Group, Inc.\n\t Suite 315\n\t 1330 Beacon Street\n\t Brookline, MA 02146\n\t USA\n\n\t(617) 232-0514\tvoice\n\t(617) 232-1347\tfax\n\n\nThe Sun User Group also accepts Visa and MasterCard via telephone or\nelectronically.\n\n\n--------------------- cut here and return completed form ---------------------\n\n The SUGCD 1992.1\n ORDER FORM\n\nThe price of the CD is $50.\n\nShipping and handling: Add $10 (USA) or $25 (Intl.)\n\nIf you are not a member of the Sun User Group, add $40 (USA) or $55\n(International) to the above sums for membership. You must be a SUG\nmember to purchase the CD-ROM. I enclose a US $ check for:\n\n __$ 60 (SUG member in the USA)\n __$ 75 (SUG member outside the USA)\n __$100 (Includes membership inside the USA)\n __$130 (Includes international membership)\n\n\n Name__________________________________ Signature___________________________\n\n Company Name_______________________________________________________________\n\n SUG Membership #(if known)_________________________________________________\n\n Electronic Mail Address____________________________________________________\n\n Telephone Number___________________________________________________________\n\n Check Enclosed_____ Mastercard_____ Visa_____\n\n Credit Card #__________________________________ Exp. date.________________\n\n Card Holder:__________________________ Signature:__________________________\n\n Ship to: Bill to:\n\n ______________________________________ ___________________________________\n\n ______________________________________ ___________________________________\n\n ______________________________________ ___________________________________\n\n ______________________________________ ___________________________________\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n[ ] I hereby authorize the Sun User Group to renew my membership\n and charge my credit card automatically on an annual basis.\n\n[ ] I do not wish my name to be included in non-Sun User\n Group mailings.\n\n[ ] I do not wish my name to be published in the Sun User\n Group member directory.\n\n[ ] I wish to be added to the Sun User Group electronic\n\tmailing-list (members only)\n\n\n OUTSIDE THE U.S. ONLY:\n\nIndividuals outside of the USA may find using their credit cards easier\nthan purchasing US$ checks as this eliminates bank charges.\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\n Sun User Group\n 1330 Beacon Street, Suite 315\n Brookline, MA 02146", "Archive-name: Intel-Unix-X-faq\nLast-modified: 30 Mar 1993\n\nNote: This is a major re-organization (and replacement) of my\n \"Frequently Asked Questions About X386\" FAQ list.\n\nThis article includes answers to:\n\nI) What options do I have for X software on my Intel-based Unix system?\n\t1. Free options\n\t2. Commercial options\nII) What is XFree86 and where do I get it?\n\t3. What is XFree86?\n\t4. What OSs are supported?\n\t5. What video hardware is supported?\n\t6. What about accelerated boards?\n\t7. Why doesn't XFree86 support 16-color VGA modes?\n\t8. What other hardware or software requirements are there?\n\t9. Where can I get source for XFree86?\n\t10. Where can I get binaries for XFree86?\nIV) What general things should I know about running XFree86?\n\t11. Installation directories\n\t12. Configuration files\n\t13. Determining VGA dot clocks and monitor modes\n\t14. Rebuilding/reconfiguring the server from the link kit\nV) What OS-specific things should I know about running XFree86?\n\t15. SVR4\n\t16. SVR3\n\t17. 386BSD\n\t18. Linux\n\t19. Mach\nVI) What things should I know for building XFree86 from source?\nVII) Is there anything special about building clients with XFree86?\n\t20. BSD compatibility library\n\t21. ANSICCOPTIONS\n\nThis article does NOT include answers to general X questions, since these\nare already covered by the X FAQ that is regularly posted by David B. Lewis\n.\n\nIf you have anything to add or change on the FAQ just let me know.\n(especially if you had a problem that someone else was able to help you with)\nSend changes to steve@ecf.toronto.edu, please put 'FAQ' somewhere\nin the subject line so that my mail filter will put it in the correct\nmail folder.\n\nPlease DO NOT ask me questions that are not answered in the FAQ. I do not\nhave time to respond to these individually. Instead, post your question\nto the net, and send me the question and answer together when you get it.\n\nFrequently Asked Questions About X on Intel-based Unix (with answers)\n=====================================================================\n\nI) What options do I have for X software on my Intel-based Unix system?\n\n1. Free options\n\tThe BEST option is XFree86, which is an enhanced version of X386 1.2.\n\tAny other version of X386 will have slower performance, and will\n\tbe more difficult to compile. Information on how to obtain XFree86\n\tis listed below.\n\n\tX386 is the port of the X11 server to System V/386 that was\n\tdone by Thomas Roell (roell@sgcs.com).\n\tIt supports a wide variety of SVGA boards.\n\tThere are 2 major free versions: X386 1.1 is based on X11R4,\n\tX386 1.2 is included in MIT's X11R5 distribution (ie. you\n\tdon't need to patch it into the MIT source any more).\n\tX386 1.3 is the current commercial offering from SGCS (see below).\n\n2. Commercial options\n\n 1) Metro Link\n\t2213 W. McNab Road\n\tPompano Beach, FL 33069\n\t(305) 970-7353\n\tFax: (305) 970-7351\n\temail: sales@metrolink.com\n\n\tSummary: OS: QNX, SVR3, SVR4.[012], SCO, UnixWare, LynxOS, \n\t\t\tDESQview/X, Venix, ISC, Solaris, Pyramid, SunOS\n\t\t HW: EGA, VGA, SVGA, TIGA, TARGA, 8514/A, Mach, \n\t\t\tS3, WD, Fujistu, Matrox, Microfield Graphics, R33020\n\t\t Other: Motif, OpenLook/XView, XIE Imaging Extension,\n\t\t\tXv Video Extension, Audio Drivers, Multi Media\n\n 2) SGCS (Snitily Graphics Consulting Services)\n\t894 Brookgrove Lane\n\tCupertino, CA 95014\n\t(800) 645-5501, (408) 255-9665\n\tFax: (408) 255-9740\n\temail: info@sgcs.com or ...!mips!zok!info\n\n\tSummary: OS: SVR3.2, SVR4 \n\t\t HW: 8514/A (ATI Ultra), S3 (Diamond Stealth), SVGA\n\t\t Other: Motif, Dual-headed server\n\n 3) Consensys Corporation\n\t1301 Pat Booker Rd.\n\tUniversal City, TX 78148\n\tPhone: 1-800-388-1896\n\tFAX: 1-416-940-2903\n\temail: info@consensys.com\n\n\tSummary: OS: Consensys V4.2, Consensys' version of\n\t\t Unix System V Release 4.2\n\t\t HW: X11R4 server support for VGA, SVGA\n\t\t Other: MoOLIT, Motif, X11R5 Clients\n\n 4) The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.\n\tp.o. box 1900\n\tSanta Cruz, California 95061\n\t(408) 425 7222, (800) SCO UNIX,\n\tFAX: (408) 458 4227\n\temail: info@sco.com\n\n\tSummary: OS: ODT 1.1, ODT 2.0, SCO Unix 3.2v4\n\t\t HW: X11R4 server support for SVGA, 8514/A, S3, TMS340x0,\n\t\t WD90C31, XGA2, assorted local bus (see SCO Hardware\n\t\t Compatabilty Guide for actual card vendors).\n\t\t Other: Motif\t\n\n 5) Answer Software & Consulting\n\tp.o. box 14171\n\tColumbus, Ohio 43214\n\t614-263-XLAB\n\temail: sales@x4coher.com\n\n\tSummary: OS: Coherent 4.0.1r72 or greater\n\t\t HW: works with any VESA compliant video\n\n NOTE: Other commercial vendors (including OS vendors describing\n\tbundled software) are welcome to submit summary information\n\tsummary information such as the above.\n\nII) What is XFree86 and where do I get it?\n\n3. What is XFree86?\n\n XFree86 is an enhanced version of X386 1.2, which was distributed with\n X11R5. This release consists of many bug fixes, speed improvements, and\n other enhancements. Here are the highlights of the enhancements:\n\n 1) The SpeedUp package from Glenn Lai is an integral part of XFree86,\n selectable at run-time via the Xconfig file. Some SpeedUps require\n an ET4000 based SVGA, and others require a virtual screen width of\n 1024. The SpeedUps suitable to the configuration are selected by\n default. With a high-quality ET4000 board (VRAM), this can yield\n up to 40% improvement of the xStones benchmark over X386 1.2.\n 2) The fX386 packages from Jim Tsillas are included as the default\n operating mode if SpeedUp is not selected. This mode is now\n equivalent in performance to X386 1.1b (X11R4), and approximately\n 20% faster than X386 1.2.\n 3) Support for LOCALCONN, compile-time selectable for server, clients,\n or both. This support is for both SVR3.2 and SVR4. For SVR4.0.4\n with the 'Advanced Compatibility Package', local connections from\n SCO XSight/ODT clients are supported.\n 4) Drivers for ATI and Trident TVGA8900C and TVGA9000 SVGA chipsets.\n Refer to the files README.ati and README.trident for details about\n the ATI and Trident drivers.\n 5) Support for compressed bitmap fonts has been added (Thomas Eberhardt's\n code from the contrib directory on export.lcs.mit.edu).\n 6) Type1 Font code from MIT contrib tape has been included, and is\n compile-time selectable. There are contributed Type1 fonts in the\n contrib directory on export.lcs.mit.edu.\n 7) New configuration method which allows the server's drivers and font\n renderers to be reconfigured from both source and binary\n distributions.\n 8) Integrated support for 386BSD, Mach, and Linux.\n 9) A monochrome version of the server which will run on generic VGA\n cards is now included.\n\n The following key features were added with the release of XFree86 1.2\n (they were not in XFree86 1.1):\n\n 1) The monochrome server has been enhanced to do bank-switching of\n available SVGA memory to allow virtual screens up to 1600x1200 \n (see the X386(1) manual page for more information).\n 2) Support for the Hercules mono card has been added to the\n monochrome server, and with it the ability to support a \"two\n headed\" server - one VGA, and one Hercules. So far this has only\n been tested on SVR4 (it is also reported to work under Linux).\n 3) SVR3 shared libraries, tested under ISC SVR3 2.2 and 3.0.1.\n 4) Support for SVR4.2 (There are some special considerations to\n consider, due to new USL bugs; see the README.SVR4 file for\n more information.)\n 5) Support for PS/2 mice, and Logitech MouseMan/TrackMan (some \n versions of these devices were not previously compatible).\n 6) A new tutorial on how to develop correct video card and monitor\n timing data, written by Eric Raymond (derived from previous\n documentation and a lot of experimentation).\n 7) Greatly improved support for international keyboards, including\n implementation of the Compose key functionality found on many \n vendor servers (see the X386keybd(1) manual page for more \n information).\n 8) The accuracy with which the server detects SVGA pixel clocks has\n been improved, and the timings are now stored at accuracies of\n 0.1 MHz. Users may want to consider removing an existing Clocks\n line from their Xconfig file and re-probing using the new server.\n 9) Many enhancements in error handling and parsing of the Xconfig\n configuration file. Error messages are much more informative\n and intuitive, and more validation is done. There are many new\n options that can be enabled in the Xconfig file (see the X386(1) \n manual page for more information on the format of this file).\n\n Plus a number of other small things. Refer to the CHANGELOG file\n in the source distribution for full details.\n\n Also included are a tutorial on monitor timing by Eric Raymond, and the\n current X386 mode database and a sample xdm configuration by David Wexelblat.\n\n4. What OSs are supported?\n\n XFree86 supports:\n\tSVR4.2: Consensys V4.2\n\tSVR4.0: Microport, Dell, Esix, ISC, AT&T, MST, Consensys, UHC\n\tSVR3: ISC 2.2 & 3.0, AT&T 2.2\n\tLinux, Mach 386, 386BSD 0.1\n\n\tBSD/386 is not supported, but it should work. The most active\n\tBSD/386 person is Greg Lehey .\n\n\tNote that Esix 3.2D and SCO are not supported yet,\n\tbut anyone should feel free to submit patches.\n\tIf you are interested in tackling this, send mail to\n\txfree86@physics.su.oz.au\n\n5. What video hardware is supported?\n\n At this time, XFree86 1.2 supports the following SVGA chipsets:\n\n\tTseng ET4000\n\tTseng ET3000\n\tParadise PVGA1\n\tWestern Digital WD90C00, WD90C10, WD90C11 (these are supersets of\n\t\tthe PVGA1, and use its driver)\n\tGenoa GVGA\n\tTrident TVGA8900C, TVGA9000\n\tATI 18800, 28800\n\n\tAll of the above are supported in both 256 color and monochrome modes,\n\twith the exception of the ATI chipsets, which are only supported in\n\t256 color mode.\n\n\tThe monochrome server also supports generic VGA cards, using 64k of\n\tvideo memory in a single bank, and the Hercules card. On the\n\tET3000, only 64k of video memory is supported for the monochrome\n\tserver, and the GVGA has not been tested with more than 64k.\n\n\tIt appears that some of the SVGA card manufacturers are going to\n\tnon-traditional mechanisms for selecting pixel-clock frequencies. To\n\tavoid having to modify the server to accommodate these schemes XFree86\n\t1.2 adds support for using an external program to select the pixel\n\tclock. This allows programs to be written as new mechanisms are\n\tdiscovered. Refer to the README.clkprog file for information on how\n\tthese programs work, if you need to write one. If you do develop such\n\ta program, the XFree86 team would be interested in including it with\n\tfuture XFree86 releases.\n\n\tIf you are purchasing new hardware for the purpose of using XFree86,\n\tit is suggested that you purchase an ET4000-based board such as the\n\tOrchid ProDesigner IIs. Avoid recent Diamond boards; XFree86 will not\n\twork with them, because Diamond won't provide programming details.\n\tIn fact, the XFree86 project is actively not supporting new Diamond\n\tproducts, as long as such policies remain in effect. Contributions\n\tof code will NOT be accepted (because of the potential liabilities).\n\tIf you would like to see this change, tell Diamond about it.\n\n\tSome people have asked if XFree86 would work with local bus or EISA\n\tvideo cards. Theoretically, the means of communication between the\n\tCPU and the video card is irrelevant to Xfree86 compatibility. It\n\tcould be ISA, EISA, or local bus. What should matter is the chipset\n\ton the video card. Unfortunately, the developers don't have a lot\n\tof access to EISA or VLB machines, so this is largely an untested\n\ttheory. However, we have yet to see any reports of things not\n\tworking on one of these buses and we have several reports of Xfree86\n\tworking fine on them.\n\n6. What about accelerated boards?\n\n\tAt this time, there is no support in XFree86 for accelerated boards\n\tlike the S3, ATI Ultra (8514/A), TIGA, etc. This support is available\n\tin commercial products from SGCS and MetroLink (for SVR3 and SVR4).\n\n\tAn S3 server is available for 386BSD and Linux. Contact\n\t for 386BSD or for Linux.\n\n\tA beta 8514/A server is available for Linux. Contact \n\tor . Note: these servers are NOT part of XFree86.\n\n7. Why doesn't XFree86 support 16-color VGA modes?\n\n\tThe reason that this is not supported is the way VGA implements the\n\t16-color modes. In 256-color modes, each byte of frame buffer memory\n\tcontains 1 pixel. But the 16-color modes are implemented as bit-\n\tplanes. Each byte of frame- buffer memory contains 1 bit from each\n\tof each of 8 pixels, and there are four such planes. The MIT frame-\n\tbuffer code is not designed to deal with this. If VGA handled\n\t16-color modes by packing 2 4-bit pixels into each byte, the MIT code\n\tcould be modified to support this (or it already may; I'm not sure).\n\tBut for the VGA way of doing things, a complete new frame-buffer\n\timplementation is required. Some beta testers are looking into this,\n\tbut nothing is yet available from the project.\n\n8. What other hardware or software requirements are there?\n\n\tObviously, a supported SVGA board and OS are required. To run\n\tX efficiently, 12-16MB of memory should be considered a minimum.\n\tThe various binary releases take 10-40MB of disk space, depending\n\ton the OS (e.g. whether or not it supports shared libraries).\n\tTo build from sources, at least 80MB of free disk space will\n\tbe required, although 120MB should be considered a comfortable \n\tlower bound.\n\n9. Where can I get source for XFree86?\n\n\tSource patches for the current version (1.2, based on X11R5 PL22\n\tfrom MIT), are available via anonymous FTP from:\n\t\texport.lcs.mit.edu (under /contrib/XFree86)\n\t\tftp.physics.su.oz.au (under /XFree86)\n\t\tftp.win.tue.nl (under /pub/XFree86)\n\t(For the rest of this FAQ, these 3 location will be called $FTP)\n\n\tRefer to the README file under the specified directory for information\n\ton which files you need to get to build your distribution.\n\n10. Where can I get binaries for XFree86?\n\n\tBinaries are available via anonymous FTP from:\n\t\tftp.physics.su.oz.au\t\t- SVR4 binaries\n\t\t\tunder /XFree86/SVR4\n\t\tftp.win.tue.nl\t\t\t- SVR4 binaries\n\t\t\tunder /pub/XFree86/SVR4\n\t\tferkel.ucsb.edu\t\t\t- SVR4 binaries\n\t\t\tunder /pub/SVR4/XFree86\n\t\tstasi.bradley.edu\t\t- SVR4 binaries\n\t\t\tunder /pub/XFree86/SVR4\n\t\tblancmange.ma.utexas.edu\t- SVR3 (ISC) binaries\n\t\t\tunder /pub/ISC\n\t\tftp.prz.tu-berlin.de - SVR3 (ISC) binaries\n\t\t\tunder /pub/pc/isc/XFree86\n\t\ttsx-11.mit.edu\t\t\t- Linux binaries\n\t\t\tunder /pub/linux/packages/X11\n\t\tagate.berkeley.edu\t\t- 386BSD binaries\n\t\t\tunder /pub/386BSD/0.1-ports/XFree86\n\t\tftp.cs.uwm.edu\t\t\t- Mach binaries\n\t\t\tunder /i386\n\n\tEnsure that you are getting XFree86 1.2 - some of these sites may\n\tarchive older releases as well. Each binary distribution will\n\tcontain a README file that describes what files you need to take\n\tfrom the archive, and which compile-time option selections were\n\tmade when building the distribution.\n\nIV) What general things should I know about running XFree86?\n\n11. Installation directories\n\n\tThe top-level installation directory is specified by the ProjectRoot\n\t(/usr/X386, by default) variable in config/site.def. Binaries, include\n\tfiles, and libraries are installed in $ProjectRoot/{bin,include,lib}.\n\n\tThis can be changed when rebuilding from sources, and can be modified\n\tvia symbolic links for those OSs that support them. This directory is\n\tnonstandard, and was chosen this way to allow XFree86 to be installed\n\talongside a commercial/vendor-supplied X implementation.\n\n12. Configuration files\n\n\tThe XFree86 server reads a configuration file (\"Xconfig\") on startup.\n\tThe search path, contents and syntax for this file are documented in\n\tthe server manpage, which should be consulted before asking questions.\n\n13. Determining VGA dot clocks and monitor modes\n\n\tDavid E Wexelblat (dwex@mtgzfs3.att.com) maintains a database of known\n\tclock settings for VGA cards and monitor settings.\n\tThe database is installed in /usr/X386/lib/X11/etc/modeDB.txt, and\n\tis in the source tree under mit/server/ddx/x386/etc. This database is\n\talso available from him (for the latest copy), and is kept on\n\texport.lcs.mit.edu in ~/contrib/X386.modeDB.Z, which is updated\n\toccasionally. Obtain a copy of this database. It just might have the\n\tsettings you need. If you create new settings, please send them to\n\tDavid for inclusion in the database.\n\n\tIf this doesn't help you, the VideoModes.doc (by Eric Raymond) file \n\twith XFree86 contains tutorials on how to come up with these timings.\n\tIt may be helpful to start with settings that almost work, and use\n\tthis description to get them right. When you do, send the information\n\tto David Wexelblat for inclusion in the database.\n\n\tNOTE: The old 'clock.exe' program is not supported any more, and\n\t is completely unnecessary. If you need to determine dot\n\t clock values for a new board, remove the 'Clocks' line from\n\t your Xconfig file (if present), and start the server. The\n\t server will probe for clocks itself and print them out.\n\t You can use these values to put a 'Clocks' line into your\n\t Xconfig file, which is not necessary, but will speed up\n\t starting the server in the future.\n\n14. Rebuilding/reconfiguring the server from the link kit\n\n\tIf you have installed the server Binary Link Kit, it is possible to\n\treconfigure the drivers and font renderers in the server. This is\n\tfully explained in the README file that is available with the link kit.\n\nV) What OS-specific things should I know about running XFree86?\n\n\tFirst of all, the server must be installed suid-root (mode 4755).\n\n15. SVR4\n\tWhy won't my xterm run properly?\n\n\tIf your kernel is not built with the consem module, you should define\n\tCONSEM=no in you environment. Otherwise xterm won't run.\n\tcsh users should use 'setenv CONSEM no'\n\n\tThe Esix console driver patch 403019 is known to cause keymapping\n\tproblems with XFree86. It recommended that this patch not be\n\tinstalled. Alternatively they keymap can be fixed with xmodmap.\n\n16. SVR3\n\n\tMake sure you look at $FTP/README.ISC, if that's what you are running.\n\n17. 386BSD\n\n\tMake sure you look at $FTP/README.386BSD.\n\n\tAlso, a separate 386BSD FAQ is maintained by Richard Murphey\n\t. The latest version should be available in the\n\tfile XFree86-1.2-386BSD-FAQ at the following ftp sites:\n\n\t agate.berkeley.edu:/pub/386BSD/0.1-ports/XFree86-1.2\n\t wuarchive.wustl.edu:/mirrors4/386bsd/0.1-ports/XFree86-1.2\n\t grasp1.univ-lyon1.fr:pub/386BSD/0.1-ports/XFree86-1.2\n\n18. Linux\n\n\tYou must be running Linux 0.97pl4 or greater, and have the 4.1 gcc\n\tjump libraries installed.\n\n\tMake sure the binaries X386, X386mono, xload and xterm are setuid root.\n\n\tIf your kernel doesn't have TCP support compiled in, you'll have to\n\trun the server as \"X -pn\". The default startup configuration assumes\n\tthat TCP is not available. If it is, change the two files\n\t/usr/X386/bin/startx and /usr/X386/lib/X11/xdm/Xservers, removing the\n\t-pn argument to X386.\n\n\tMake sure /dev/console is either a link to /dev/tty0 or has the major\n\tnumber 4, minor number 0. Also note that if /dev/console is not\n\towned by the user running X, then xconsole and xterm will not permit\n\tconsole output redirection. Xdm will properly change the owner, but\n\tstartx won't.\n\n\tWhen running xdm from rc.local, you will need to provide it with\n\ta tty, for example \"xdm < /dev/console &\".\n\n\tFor more detailed information, please read the file README present\n\twith the distribution on tsx-11.mit.edu.\n\n19. Mach\n\n\tMake sure you look at $FTP/README.Mach.\n\nVI) What things should I know for building XFree86 from source?\n\n\tThis section has been removed from the FAQ, since it is\n\tfully explained in $FTP/README and the OS-specific READMEs.\n\tPlease look at those files for information on building XFree86.\n\nVII) Is there anything special about building clients with XFree86?\n\n20. BSD compatibility library\n\n\tA lot of clients make use of BSD functions like bcopy(), etc.\n\tThe default configuration files are set up to link with libXbsd.a\n\twhich contains emulation for bcopy(), bzero(), bcmp(), ffs(), random(),\n\tseed(). A better way of providing the 'b' functions is to include\n\t in source files that call them. Xfuncs.h provides macro\n\tdefinitions for these in terms of the SYSV 'mem' functions. If you are\n\tlinking with a vendor supplied library which calls some of these\n\tfunctions, then you should link with libXbsd.a\n\n21. ANSICCOPTIONS\n\n\tThis is something that was added to allow a developer to get rid of the\n\tANSI-ness defined in the default CCOPTIONS without having to rewrite\n\tthe entire CCOPTIONS line. For example, with stock MIT, you'd see\n\tsomething like\n\t\tCCOPTIONS=\"-ansi -O2 -fwritable-strings\"\n\tand to get rid of the ANSI-ness, the developer would have to put\n\t\tCCOPTIONS=\"-O2 -fwritable-strings\"\n\tin his Imakefile. With this change, you would see a default of\n\t\tANSICCOPTIONS=\"-ansi\"\n\t\tCCOPTIONS=\"-O2 -fwritable-strings\"\n\tand all the developer would have to put in the Imakefile is:\n\t\tANSICCOPTIONS=\n\tto get rid of the ANSI-ness (many X clients will die a horrible death\n\twith -ansi). The effect is even more dramatic in practice, because\n\tCCOPTIONS is actually quite complex. The other issue is that one must\n\tadd 'ANSICCOPTIONS=$(ANSICCOPTIONS)' to a PassCDebugFlags definition.\n\nXFree86 Contact Information\n\n Ongoing development planning and support is coordinated by the XFree86\n Core Team. At this time the Core Team consists of:\n\n\tThe original \"gang of four\":\n\t\tDavid Dawes \n\t\tGlenn Lai \n\t\tJim Tsillas \n\t\tDavid Wexelblat \n\n\tThose supporting non-SYSV operating systems:\n\t\tRobert Baron [Mach]\n\t\tRich Murphey [386BSD]\n\t\tOrest Zborowski [Linux]\n\n e-mail sent to will reach all of the core team.\n\n\t--------------------------------------------------\n\nThanks to all the people who already sent me corrections or additions,\nespecially David Wexelblat (one of the major contributors of updates).", "I am running Windows 3.1, Windows for Work Groups and just loaded Dos 6.\n\nWhat`s happening appears as a graphics problem with File Manager. I've\nadded some menubar buttons but there appears to be a gray boxed region\nthat covers the top 2/3'rds of the button row. \n\nThese buttons are in a row below the pulldown menus. the pulldown menus\nlook fine, and the disk label region looks fine, but you only see the bottom\nfew pixels of the task buttons.\n\nAnyone else experience this?\n\nThanks. ", "\nyo,yo,yo .\nthe western digital hd will hve it marked either s,m,a\nput jumper on the s \"its printed on the circuitry underkneth it.\n\nhope i helped i had the same problem.\nbye..\nlater daze.\noharad@wanda.waiariki.ac.nz\n", "Hi, all!\n\nAnyone knows of a Motif mailing list? I don't have access to network news\nand there is no longer a motif list at alfalfa.com.\n\nThanks, Joel.\n\n-- \n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nJoel Reymont ! Z-Code Software Corporation ! e-mail: joel@z-code.com \n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n4340 Redwood Hwy, Suit B.50, San Rafael, CA 94903", "\nWell, I also have an LC III. Popping the top revealed:\n\n\tOne \"socket\" for an additional VRAM SIMM\n\n\tOne \"socket\" for a 72-pin RAM SIMM\n\n\tOne socket for a flat-pack FPU\n\n\tA processor-direct slot (PDS) identical to the LC/LC II, but with\n\tan additional set of connetions to one side (for the full 32-bit\n\tdata path that the LC/LC II lacked\n\nThat's it. I guess a board with a PowerPC chip could be made that would fit\nin the PDS, but that's the only place.", "Hi everyone,\n\tI have a question regarding my stack on my pc. I am programming \nin Turbo C 3.0 and my program is rather large (model large too). I keep \ngetting errors that I am running out of memory after a while of running the \nprogram. When I compile the program, it says I have 4.45 meg of RAM so \nI can't seem to explain why it crashes.\n\nAll it is doing is running in a loop while the operator is idle and\nafter a while of sitting, it will screw up all the variables. This leads\nme to believe that my stack is filling up and overflowing. \n\nDoes the program take memory up when it is calling void functions\nthat do not return anything??\n\n\tI have been working on this problem for days and I would really\nappreciate any responce. If this is not the correct newsgroup, I will\ngladly re-post, but this is the only I could find.", "\n\n\n< rest deleted >\n\nAs a followup to my post let me add that:\n\nI'm not really a Windows or Windows NT user, so please excuse my ignorance.\nHowever, I'm a developer at SAS Institute, and one component of the\napplication that I support is the ability to submit a (SAS) batch job from\nwithin an interactive SAS session. The user site can enter their\nsite-specific \"batch profile\" into a dataset within our product, specifying\nthe pathname to the SAS executable, specifying site specific SAS options,\netc. At run time certain variables are resolved, and the resolved file is\nwritten to an external ascii file. Then I exit to the operating system and\nrun the job asynchronously, returning to the interactive session as soon as\nthe job is submitted. The batch job then runs concurrently with the\ninteractive session.\n\nAs currently designed, the internal dataset has a record length of 80\ncharacters. But, to run the batch job, the command to reinvoke SAS in\nbatch mode requires more than 80 characters. Up til NT this has not been a\nproblem, since every job control/shell language up til NT (eg.\nMVS/CMS/VMS/UNIX/OS2) had a way to escape the CR/LF and enter a single\ncommand across multiple lines (OS/2 via their REXX language, which is\n*STANDARD* with OS/2).\n\nThe gist of all this is, since this application is for end-users, not\nwithin my company, I have to try to develop this process using native NT.\nSince my first posting I've learned that there are several third party\ncompanies that provide alternative script languages for Windows/Windows NT.\nAnd I'm sure a company that licenses our product would use that alternative\nscript language if they had it, but I can't develop under the assumption\nthat they have anything other than what comes with NT.\n\nI saw another post on this list (the subject was something like \"Is vi\navailable for Windows?\") in which someone said that vi, make, awk, and\n***ksh*** was available with Microsoft TOOLKIT. What is that product? Is\nit a separate product or part of Windows? ksh would do what I need if I\ncould count on it at all NT sites.\n\nOne last question: I've heard that NT has remote processing capabilities,\ni.e. I could shove this batch job off to a server machine and have it run\nthere. If these are native NT commands rather than network specific\ncommands, this would also help me improve this process. If you can comment\non these commands, I would appreciate it.\n\nThanks again for the help,\n\n--\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nScott Bass | SAS Institute Inc.\nIntegrated Systems, A216, x6975 | SAS Campus Drive, Cary, NC 27513-2414\nsasswb@k2.unx.sas.com | (919) 677-8001 x6975", "Can someone tell me which of the files that come with DW-3.1 go where\nand for what purpose? What can be left out, for instance, if\nyou don't want to do background printing?", "Has anyone had experience porting imake to DOS using a Microsoft, Watcom, or\nany other DOS compiler? ", "Hello everybody!\n\nDoes anybody know how to implement wordwrap with use of XDrawImageString?\nThe problem is that I don't know how many characters can be drawn in \na region. Have I to calculate character for character the width of the drawn\ntext?\n\nThank you in advance.\n\n ,,,\n (o o)\n --------------------------oOO--(_)--OOo--------------------------------\nJoerg Mainzer Internet: mainzer@darmstadt.gmd.de\nGerman Nat. Research Center X.400net: mainzer@ipsi.darmstadt.gmd.dbp.de\nfor Information Technology Voice : ++49-6151-869923\nDolivostrasse 15\t Fax : ++49-6151-869818\nW-6100 Darmstadt, Germany\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nSymptom : Bar moving.\nFault : You are being carried out.\nSolution : Find out if you are being taken to another bar - if not complain\n loudly that you are being hi-jacked.", "I need some advice regarding monitor to use with Xfree86. I have an ET4000\nbased graphic card with 1 Meg of memory. I know this card is supported in\nXfree86 because a friend of mine has one of these in his PC. His monitor is\n17\" colour capable of displaying 1280x1024 resolution. I cant afford this kind\nof expensive monitor. I heard from somewhere that Xfree86 requires multisync\nmonitor with minimum horizontal scan frequency of 60KHz. Is this true?\nI would only like to use Xfree86 at resolution of 800x600 in 256 colours and\nso was thinking of buying a cheap 14\" SVGA monitor. Interlaced (Cheap)14\" SVGA \nmonitors only have have maximum horizontal scan frequency of about 38KHz.\nWill this kind of monitor work with Xfree86? \n\nPlease reply by email.\n\nThaks in advance.", "Can any body tell me where the most significant bit of the total horizontal\nwidth hides out on the Tseng Labs ET4000 with a 15/16/24 bit dac?\nI am trying to use the 640x480x16M mode under unix (so i cant just call int 10h)I have a program which dumps the contents of the card registers under dos, but I\nam not sure I trust it for the extended registers of the et4000.\nAnyway, the problem is that in this mode, the Horizontal Total Register\n(3d4h index0) is apparently set to 0x27, but 3d4h index 1 (the displayed clocks)\nis set to 0xEF, so 0x27 is nonsense. A resonable value would be 0x0127 - so is\nthere a high bit, and if so, where is it?\nAlso, how does one set the video dot clock to the appropriate frequency ( and\nwhat would be an appropriate frequency?). The documentation isn't really very\nclear (tseng.txt from vgadoc2.zip from some ftp site) about this.\nMy card is a MegaVga/1024 1Mb card. Seems to have a Tseng Labs Bios (ver 8.05 I\nthink.) Works nicely under dos, and very well under unix (linux) in all the\nnon-hicolor modes. Great for running X-windows in up to 1152x900x256ni - if your\nmonitor will take it (only just in my case).\n\nPlease email the answer, as I can't read news very often.", "I have a pair of car speakers for sale. They are BRAND NEW, still in box and \nplastic wrap. I got them at Highland's going-out-of-business sale just yesterday\nHowever they won't fit my car's rear deck because it's not the right size.\nSo, I am trying to sale them here.\n\nINFINITY RS-6903 \n6x9 Three-Way\nFreq. Resp. 40-22k Hz\nPower Capacity: 90 Watts per channel\nSensitivity: 93 dB SPL/1W/1m\nImpedance 4 ohms\nMouting Depth 3\"\n\nList Price $200\nStereo Store $140-165 + tax\nMail Order Catalog Price $149 + S/H\nMy Price $120 obo + Shipping\n\nPlease e-mail me at fang@en.ecn.purdue.edu\nor call me at (317)743-1394 ", "\n\n\nI remember reading somewhere (QEMM manual, I think) that \nSTACK=9,256 is needed only for the Windows SETUP program. \nOtherwise, use STACK=0,0.", "As soon as I am logged into Linux, I type\n\n# xinit\n\nSetting TCP SO_LINGER : Protocol not available\nno SIOCGIFCONF\nXFree86 Version 1.2/X Window System\n(protocol Version 11, revision 0, vendor release 5000)\nconfigured drivers:\n\tVGA256(256 colout SVGA):\n\t et4000, et 3000, PVGA1, gvga, ati, tvga8900c, tgva9000\n (using VT number 7)\nMouse : type : Mouse Systems, device : /dev/mouse, baudrate:1200\nFont Path set to \"usr/lib/X11/fonts/Type1, /usr/lib/X11/fonts/75 dpi/,\n\t\t\t\t /usr/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo, /usr/lib/X11/fonts/Bitstream1/,\n\t\t\t\t /usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc.\nVGA 256 : et4000 ( mem : OK numclocks : 16 )\nVGA 256 : Clocks : 25.2 28.3 47.8 41.2 25.4 0.0 47.6 0.0\nVGA 256 : Clocks : 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 41.3\nVga 256 : Too little memory for virtual resolution 1024 1204\n\n*** A configured device found, but display modes could not be resolved. ***\n\nFatal server error:\nno screens found\ngiving up.\nxinit : Interrupted system call(errno 4) : Unable to connect to X server\nxinit : No such process(errno 3) : Server error.\n\n===========================================================================\n\nWhy am I getting these messages when I type in xinit?\nIs there a configuration file for X-Windows(like config.sys for MSDOS)?\nHow do I start the X session( from shell )?\n\n\n______________________________________________________", "\n\nis this the KX-P1124 you're talking about? or is there a KX-1124, too?\nI'll assume you just forgot the P....\n\n\nthis light is also the power light..... on (not blinking) just means that\nthe power is turned on. if you look at the panel, it should read\n\n POWER\n ---------\n PAPER OUT\n\nright?\n\n\ndon't know why it would do this, unless you're out of paper, that is.\n\n\nwhen you power up the printer, assuming it does have paper, the red power\nlight (which, when flashing, doubles as paper out) should light, and a few\nseconds later, the green ONLINE light should come on.\n\nhope this helps.....\n --jim\n\n--\n#include 73 DE N5IAL (/4)\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nINTERNET: jim@n5ial.mythical.com | j.graham@ieee.org ICBM: 30.23N 86.32W\nAMATEUR RADIO: n5ial@w4zbb (Ft. Walton Beach, FL) AMTOR SELCAL: NIAL", "I have the following 45 rpm singles for sale. Most are collectable 7-inch \nrecords with picture sleeves. Price does not include postage which is $1.21 \nfor the first record, $1.69 for two, etc.\n\n\nBeach Boys|Barbara Ann (Capitol Picture Sleeve)|$10|45\nBeach Boys|Califonia Girls (Capitol Picture Sleeve)|$15|45\nBeach Boys|Fun, Fun, Fun (Capitol Picture Sleeve)|$10|45\nBeach Boys|Little Girl I Once Knew (Capitol Picture Sleeve)|$10|45\nBeach Boys|Please Let Me Wonder (Capitol Picture Sleeve)|$10|45\nBeach Boys|Rock n Roll to the Rescue (Capitol Promo/Picture Sleeve)|$15|45\nBeach Boys|When I Grow Up to Be a Man (Capitol Picture Sleeve)|$10|45\nBeatles|Im Happy Just to Dance with You (Capitol Picture Sleeve)|$10|45\nDoctor & the Medics|Burn (I.R.S. Promo/Picture Sleeve)|$5|45\nGeneral Public|Too Much or Nothing (I.R.S. Promo/Picture Sleeve)|$5|45\nGo Gos|Our Lips are Sealed (I.R.S. Picture Sleeve)|$5|45\nLennon, John|Instant Karma! (We All Shine On) (Apple Picture Sleeve)|$15|$45\nLennon, John|Mind Games (Apple Picture Sleeve)|$10|$45\nMadonna|Open Your Heart (Sire Promo)|$5|45\nMcCartney, Paul|Coming Up (Columbia. Picture Sleeve)|$10|45\nMcCartney, Paul|Mull of Kintyre (Capitol. Picture Sleeve)|$10|45\nMcCartney, Paul|Stranglehold (Capitol Promo/Picture Sleeve)|$5|45\nMcCartney, Paul|Wonderful Christmastime (Columbia. Picture Sleeve)|$10|45\nMercury, Freddie|I Was Born to Love You (Columbia Promo/Picture Sleeve)|$5|45\nPink Floyd|Learning to Fly (Columbia Promo/Picture Sleeve)|$5|45\nQueen|Kind of Magic (Capitol Promo/Picture Sleeve)|$5|45\nRamones|Sheena is a Punk Rocker (Sire Promo/Picture Sleeve)|$5|45\nRolling Stones|19th Nervous Brakdown (London Picture Sleeve)|$10|45\nRolling Stones|Jumpin Jack Flash (London Picture Sleeve)|$10|45\nRolling Stones|Mothers Little Helper (London Picture Sleeve)|$10|45\nRolling Stones|Paint It, Black (London Picture Sleeve)|$10|45\nStarr, Ringo|Photograph (Apple Picture Sleeve)|$15|$45\nStarr, Ringo|Youre Sixteen (Apple Picture Sleeve)|$15|$45\nTalking Heads|Road to Nowhere (Sire Promo/Picture Sleeve)|$5|45\nWaters, Roger|Sunset Strip (Columbia Promo/Picture Sleeve)|$10|45\nWaters, Roger|Sunset Strip (Columiba Promo)|$5\nWaters, Roger|Who Needs Information (Columiba Promo)|%10|45\n\nIf you are interested, please contact:", "Does anyone have the documentation for the MS Mouse Driver 8.2? I got it when \nI got Windows 3.1, but my Windows manual does not come with the documentation. \nIn particular I need to know how to turn it off, and how to speed it up \noutside windows. The greater sensitivity is needed so I can play various \ngames, esp X-wing :)\n\n---\n---------------------------------------------------------------------", "\nThe Fluke 87 beeps at you if you try to take it out of a current measuring\nrange while there is still a lead plugged in to the current sense socket.\n\n... this should solve your problem - unless you are in a noisy environment.\n\nJohnH\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n | _ |_ _ |_| _ _| _| Electronics Department\n |_| (_) | | | | | | (_| (_| (_| \\/ School of MPCE\n ---------------------------------/- Macquarie University\n Sydney, AUSTRALIA 2109\n\n Email: johnh@mpce.mq.edu.au, Ph: +61 2 805 8959, Fax: +61 2 805 8983\n", "The Duo Powerbooks seem to park the heads after a few seconds of\ninactivity... is that builtin into the drive logic or is it being\nprogrammed via software, any way to tune the iddle timeout that\nmakes the heads park themselves... I think the heads are being\nparked since after a few seconds of inactivity you can hear the\nclunk of heads parking.", "\nNo. When the program is run, it loads 4 configuration files; autoexec.bat,\nconfig.sys, win.ini, and system.ini. There is no Open entry on the File\nmenu. You can only edit these four files. If you need to edit some other\nprogram's .ini file, use Notepad or some other ASCII editor.\n\nI wonder whether Microsoft intended for sysedit to be used, or if it was\njust a holdover from the testing period and they forgot to take it out. The\nreason I think this is because there is absolutely no mention in the manuals\nabout this program, and there is no online help for it (just an About entry\nunder the File menu). The program looks like something that was intended for\ninternal use only. It's kind of a shame, though. It would have made a nice\nmulti-file replacement for Notepad.", "I have become involved in a project to further develop and \nimprove the performance of SPECT (Single Photon Emission\nComputerized Tomography) imaging. We will eventually have\nto peddle this stuff somewhere, and so as I move this thing\nalong, I would like to know --\n\nWhat is the current resolution of SPECT imaging? What kinds\nof jobs is SPECT used for, specifically? What kind of specific jobs\ncould I hope\nthat SPECT could be used for, if its resolution improved,\nsay, to close to that of PET (Positron Emission Tomography)?\nAnd how much does a SPECT machine cost? How much does a single\nSPECT image cost? \n\nIf anyone knows the answer to any or all of these questions, OR\nwhere I could find that answer, I would be very grateful, indeed. \nThanks in advance for any replies", "Does anyone out there know if there are print drivers for Windows for the\nPanasonic KX-P1091i 9-pin dot matrix printer?\n", "4 month old Sega Genesis, barely used, one controller, in original\nbox, with Sonics 1 and 2. $130 gets the whole bundle shipped to you.\n\nTurns out they're not as addictive when they're yours. Anyway, mail me if \nyou're interested in this marvel of modern technology.\n", "I had a deal on one, but the buyer disappear, so here we go again:", "\n\n\n\n\n\nThe only explanation I can think of is that two capacitors in series\ncan handle twice the output voltage. Sometimes two elco's in antiseries\n(you know, positive sides facing eachother) are used to obtain a large\ncapacitor that can handle positive and negative voltages as well.\n\nSo there probably is no design-philosophical reason, but a production-cost\none.\n\nBest 73's", "FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE\n\nEditorial Contact:\nSingle Source Marketing: Myra Manahan (714) 545-1338\nGenoa Systems: Joseph Brunoli (408) 432-9090\n Neil Roehm (408) 432-9090/Technical\n\n\n Genoa Presents High Performance \n Video Graphics Accelerator\n\n SAN JOSE, Calif USA -- Genoa Systems Corporation announces \nWINDOWSVGA 24, a True Color 24-bit graphics accelerator card that \ndelivers up to 16.8 million colors at speeds faster than the \ncompetition. Plus it offers a full range of resolutions, high \nrefresh rates as well as unique proprietary performance features. \nThe card is available in both 16-bit ISA bus and 32-bit VESA Local \nbus versions (models 8500 AND 8500VL).\n With 1MB DRAM on board, the WINDOWSVGA 24 card offers \nmaximum resolution up to 1,280 x 1,024 and supports a refresh rate \nof 72Hz at 800 x 600 and resolution up to 1,024 x 768 \nnon-interlaced. Both models provide performance many times greater \nthan standard SVGA boards, yet conform to all current video \nstandards.\n WINDOWSVGA 24 features Genoa's FlickerFree(tm) technology, \nwhich eliminates screen flash and flicker to make viewing much more \ncomfortable. the cards also come with Safescan(tm), a utility \ndeveloped by Genoa to eliminate the black border around the screen \nand thereby provide 100-percent screen use for overscanning monitors.\n WINDOWSVGA model 8500VL takes full advantage of the speed \noffered by the new VESA Local bus technology. Most VL bus cards \nwill only handle data transfers up to 33MHz, but the 8500VL will \ntransfer data at the full speed of the CPU, up to 50MHz. Genoa is \nalso offering this card in the \"TurboBahn\" combination packaged \nwith their TURBOEXPRESS 486VL motherboard.\n Built around the Cirrus Logic GD-5426 GUI accelerator, \nWINDOWSVGA 24 offers the user an exceptional price/performance \nvalue. Genoa's advanced proprietary drivers act to \"turbocharge\" \nthe chip, thereby providing an affordable accelerator card with \npower and performance that surpass many of the more highly priced \nchip cards. The Genoa user will enjoy optimal speed and \nreliability for such programs as Windows, AutoCAD, AutoShade, 3D \nStudio, OS/2, OrCAD and more. Driver updates and product bulletins \nare available on Genoa's BBS at (408) 943-1231.\n Genoa Systems manufactures and markets an extensive line of \ngraphics adapters, motherboards, audio and multimedia cards for \nIBM-compatible personal computers. All products come with a two \nyear limited warranty on parts and labor. Genoa products are \ncurrently distributed worldwide through authorized distributors, \nresellers, VARs and systems integrators.\n For more information contact Joe Brunoli, Marketing \nManager, Genoa Systems at 75 E. Trimble Road, San Jose, Calif. \n95131; Tel: (408) 432-9090 or (800) 934-3662; Fax: (408) 434-0997.\n\n ", "I need to sell two pairs of BladeRunner in-line skates (we don't use them).\nOne is size 9 and one is size 12. They are less than a year old and were\nused very little, generally in the Corridor. They are in very good\ncondition.\n\nThey sell at Lechmere for $99.98 (we still have the boxes, if you want\nthem) and we'd like to get $85/OBO for them. Please respond by\ne-mail.", "\n\nI have found that you should observe the following with almost all new\nequipment :\n\nCheck for warrany tape. If none, carefully open unit.\n\nInspect for loose wires, jumpers, screws, and other trash.\n\nClean up these manufacturing mistakes.\n\n*Now* power up the unit and check it out.\n\nI can't think of how many things I've bought that weren't okay right out of\nthe box due to sloppy QC.\n\n- Jonathan\n\nPS : This goes for any manufacturer. I'm not picking on anyone.\n\n-- \n Internet: musjndx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu Fidonet: Jonathan Deitch@1:133/411.7\n jdeitch@gisatl.fidonet.org Bellnet: 1 - (404) - 261 - 3665 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \nAtlanta 1996 !! | Play Pinball !! | Don't Panic ! | \"I hate it when I can't\n--------------------------------------------------| trust my own technology!\"\n\"Thrills! Chills! Magic! Prizes!\" -- Hurricane | -- Geordi LaForge", "Environment:\n mach/arch : sparc/sun4 (IPX)\n OS\t: SunOS 4.1.3\n X11\t: X11R5 (patchlevel 22)\n Motif\t: 1.2.2\n\nI bring up X server using 'startx' and /usr/bin/X11/Xsun. The following sequence\nof actions crashes the X server (SIGPIPE, errno=32, 'xinit' reports that connexion \nto X server lost):\n\n 1. xinit -- Xsun\n 2. start mwm\n 3. start a client with a 100dpi/75dpi font.\n 4. move the window by dragging the title bar.\n\nThe server dumps core due to SIGPIPE. One of the two messages is printed:\n\n \"Connection to X server lost\"\n\nor\n \n \"Connection broken (errno=32)\"\n\n(I believe the first is reported by a client and the second by the server itself).\n\nNext, I ran xdm in debug level = 5. After the same set of actions, xdm reports:\n\n select returns -1\n Server for :0 terminated unexpectedly: status 2560\n\n\nNote:\n * The problem doesn't occur with other window managers (twm or olwm). \n * I have not set LD_LIBRARY_PATH. \n * I am not running font server. \n * If I start the client with fixed width font, I do not see this problem.\n * My font path:\n /usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc/,/usr/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo/,/usr/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/,/usr/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi\n\n (I did mkfontdir in /usr/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi, /usr/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi,\n /usr/lib/X11/fonts/PEX, /usr/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo,\n and in /usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc).\n\n * This problem seems to occur only on IPX machines. I do not see this \n problem on IPC workstations.\n\nQuestions:\n * What the hell is goin on ? :-)\n * What does \"status 2560\" mean (of the server).\n\nI'd greatly appreciate any hints as to the cause of the problem.\n", "I need recommendations on imaging workstations. As a minimum, I have the\nfollowing requirements:\n\n- High resolution graphics (Black and white) for display of Fax images.\n- Support the display of multiple simulataneous windows:\n Fax image, 3270 emulation window to IBM host, etc...\n- High speed network interface for 3270, image data, etc...\n (16Mb Token ring, EtherNet, etc...)\n- Mouse\n\n\nAny information/experience would be appreciated.\n\nThanks,\n\n\ncar.", "The trackbal on my PB140 no longer moves in the horizontal direction. When I\ncalled the nearest Authorized Apple Service person I was told that it probably\nneeded replacing and that would cost me over $150! Ouch!\n Can anyone recommend a less expensive way to fix this problem? One strange\nsymptom of the problem is that when I take the ball out of the socket and shine\na light into the hole I can make the cursor move horizontally by moving the\nwheel with my finger, it works fine that way but won't work if I turn off the\nlight. Any suggestions or comments?\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nBen Roy .......just a poor college student.......internet", "Does anyone know what is available in terms of automated testing\nof X/Motif applications. I am thinking of a system which I could\nprogram (or which could record events/output) with our verification\ntest procedures and then run/rerun each time we do regression\ntesting. I am interested in a product like this for our UNIX\nprojects and for a separate project which will be using OpenVMS.", "Hey!!! I've just upgraded my laptop to a Windows-capable one, so I \ndon't need my DOS word processor anymore. It's a great word \nprocessor. Easy-to-use, undemanding on the system, and\nbest of all, it has a WYSIWYG EDITING mode. This is something\nWord Perfect doesn't have!! And all I'm asking is $65 + shipping.\nIt even comes with several hundred dollars of free utilities!!!\n\n$65 for a full-featured WYSIWYG word processor!!! Perfect for\na laptop, or a lower powered machine!", "As the title says. I would like to sell my Star LV2010 9 pin printer.\nIts a narrow colum dot matrix, supports both parallel and serial\ninterfacing, prints at 200 characters per second, has a 16K buffer, \nand is very dependable...\n\nDrop some mail if your interested in it. $55 Plus shipping get the\nprinter, and 6 extra srink-wraped ribbons, parallel connection\ncable, power cord, manual, and ONE sheet of paper (smile)...", "\nHI,\n Recently, when I run the Norton Disk surface test, I realize a slow\ndown in harddisk accessing. At begining of the test, the harddisk will\nbe checked at the speed that usually is. As the surface test scaned\nhalf way through my harddisk, a tremendous slow down occured. The\nexpected time for operation will jump from 3 to 6 minutes. I try to use\nsome of the harddisk tools to check if there is any physical damage to\nmy harddisk and report always turn out to be none. The surface test\nonly slow down for a certain section of the disk and turn back to the\noriginal speed after it gets over the section. I am wondering whether\nit is a harddisk problem or some other problems. Anyway help or comment\nwill be appriciate....\n Shane Cheney Wang\n", "\n\tDoes anyone have details on this? What sort of FP errors is\nthe Q900 sensitive to?\n\n\t(My Q900 is having some strange problems with an FP intensive\nprogram, getting a lot of DS15 (Segment Loader) errors. ThinkC5.0.4 and\nSystem 7.0.1+)", "\n\n Not without replacing most of the chips on the motherboard. The C610\nisn't like the IIsi was, meaning that the motherboard of the C610 is \nactually designeds to run at the speed of the CPU, and not designed to\nrun at a higher speed (like 25MHz) but be forced to run at the speed of\na slower CPU (20MHz).\n\n\n There is more than one oscillator. If you are talking about the CPU\noscillator chip, I think that it is located under the socket for the\n'040. At least this is what I have read in some other posts in this\ngroup.", "Here is how I modified my Quadra 700 for higher speed. Previously I\nhad been using a Variable Speed Overdrive for accelerating my CPU\nbut this modification is testing out as more stable at higher speeds.\n\nYour mileage may vary. The top speed you achieve cannot be predicted\nbefore hand. My personal Q700 has tested fine up to 32 mhz thus far.\nI didn't have higher speed clock oscillators on hand to test higher\nspeeds.\n\nParts\n\n\tClock Oscillators (4 pin TTL variety) You will need a selection of\n\tspeeds beginning at 50 mhz on up. The CPU will run at 1/2 the\n\toscillator speed. The original one is a 50 mhz unit. I recommend\n\tgetting a 50 mhz clock in case you damage the existing one.\n\n\t I obtained my clock oscillators from DigiKey 1-800-344-4539 for\n\t less than $5.00 each. Some of their part numbers are:\n\n\t\t 50 mhz TTL Clock Oscillator (part # X121)\n\t\t 62 mhz TTL Clock Oscillator (part # X136)\n\t\t 66 mhz TTL Clock Oscillator (part # CTX137)\n\n\t Don't get the half size clock oscillators. They won't fit.\n\n\t There are also CMOS clock oscillators. I haven't tried one in a\n\t Quadra. (They work fine in IIsi's)\n\t \n\tSocket: Obtain a 4 pin socket which is in the same form factor as\n\t a 14 pin DIP package. Alternatively, use 4 machined socket pins\n\t from an Augat style socket. Just cut them out of the socket.\n\n\tCooling Fan: A very small 12 volt fan to keep the CPU cool is a \n\t must. My VSO came with a specially modified heatsink which had\n\t a fan built onto it. It had a pass-through connector which\n\t tapped into the hard drive power cable. You should rig up \n\t something similar or risk frying your CPU.\n\t \nProcedure\n\n1) Insert usual disclaimer and antistatic warnings here.\n\n2) Remove the top lid of the machine. You will see the floppy disk and\n hard drive mounted in a plastic tower. Follow the usual anti-static\n precautions and of course make sure the machine is OFF when you do\n this. Unplug ALL cables, wall and monitor power supply cords from\n\tthe back of the mac.\n \n3) Remove the power supply by pulling the plastic interlocking tab on the\n tower forward and simultaneously pulling the power supply straight up.\n The tab is a piece of plastic from the left posterior aspect of the\n tower which extends downward to hook on to the power supply. You may\n also feel a horseshoe shaped piece at the right portion of the power\n supply. Leave that alone. The plastic tab from the tower is all you\n need release.\n \n4) Look at the rear of the tower assembly. You will see the flat ribbon\n SCSI connector to the hard drive, a power cable and a flat ribbon cable\n leading to the floppy drive. Disconnect all these from the motherboard.\n The hard drive power cable connector has a tab which must be squeezed\n to release it.\n \n5) Unplug the drive activity LED from its clear plastic mount\n\n6) Look down the posterior, cylindrical section of the plastic tower. A\n phillips head screw is at the base. Remove it, taking care not to drop\n it into the case. A bit of gummy glue on your screwdriver is helpful\n here.\n\n7) Remove the tower assembly by pulling medially the plastic tab on the\n right side of the tower. This tab prevents the tower from sliding\n\tposteriorly. Slide the entire tower assembly 1 cm posteriorly then\n\tlift the tower assembly straight up and out of the case.\n\n8) Remove the interrupt switch assembly. It is a strangely shaped plastic\n device at the left, front edge of the motherboard. Pull the middle,\n\trear plastic prong up and forward. The entire device will release.\n\t\n9) Unplug the speaker cable. Squeeze the plastic tab on the speaker to\n free it then swing it backwards to free it from the case.\n\t\n10) Remove the motherboard form the case. Lift the front right corner of\n the motherboard about 1 mm. This allows it to clear the clear plastic\n\tPower light guide. Slide the motherboard forward about 1 cm. The\n\tmotherboard then comes directly out.\n\t\n11) Locate the 50 mhz clock crystal. It is a small metal box near the\n CPU chip. Note and remember its orientation. The new clock oscillators\n\tmust be aligned with pin 1 in the same orientation.\n\t\n\tVery carefully desolder and remove the old clock oscillator. Some of\n\tthe pins may be bent over. Simply desolder then unbend them. Be sure\n\tyour desoldering iron is hot enough before heating the board.\n\t\n\tI used a suction desoldering iron to accomplish this task. This is\n\tNOT appropriate for a first soldering experience. The motherboard is\n\ta multi-layer design with very fine traces - easily damaged without\n\tproper care.\n\t\n12) Install your socket or socket pins where the old oscillator once was.\n\n13) Put a 50 mhz clock oscillator into the new socket. You could use the\n\told clock but it has solder on its pins. This may come of inside the\n\tsocket and cause corrosion problems later. I suggest using a new\n\t50 mhz clock.\n\t\n14) Install your cooling fan system to complete the modification.\n\t\n14) Reinsert the motherboard and slide it into place.\n\n15) Snap in the interrupt switch assembly and speaker to lock the mother\n board firmly. Plug the speaker wire back into the motherboard.\n\t\n16) Reinstall the tower assembly by first placing the right wall of the\n tower against the right wall of the case with the tower assembly about\n\t1 cm posterior of its intended position. Lower the tower assembly into\n\tplace while maintaining contact with the right wall of the case.\n Once fully down, slide the tower assembly anteriorly until it clicks\n into place.\n\t\n17) Reconnect the motherboard ends of the cables. DONT'T FORGET THE FLOPPY\n DRIVE CABLE.\n\n18) Replace the phillips head screw\n\n19) Drop the power supply straight down into place until it clicks in.\n\n20) Plug the hard drive activity light back into its clear plastic mount.\n\n21) Reattach your cables and power cords. Cross your fingers and turn \n on the Mac. It should make the usual power on chord. If it doesn't,\n\tsomething is amiss. Immediately turn of the power and recheck your\n\thandiwork. If all is not well, you have my sincere condolences.\n\t\n\tHopefully, all will work normally. Turn the machine back off and\n\treplace the 50 mhz clock oscillator with a faster one. Reboot and\n\tbe astounded. \n\t\n\tYou will need to fully test the machine for many hours before deciding\n\ta particular speed is truly usable. With my VSO, a machine lock-up\n\tmight take 8 hours of operation to occur. In the brief time since\n\tmodifying my clock oscillator (36 hours) I have not had a single\n\tproblem.\n\t\nGood Luck to all who attempt this modification. There is a small but real\nrisk, but you could well reach Quadra 950 speeds or higher with less than\n$50 in parts.", "Hi,\n\nI have a problem when using subscripts with MSWord. The\nproblem is the subscripted characters get cut off on the display,\nbut print out ok. Anyone know how to fix the subscripts so\nI can see them on the screen?\n\nMany thanks,", "I'd like to add a second S3 based video card to my system. Does anyone\nknow of a company that sells a card that can coexist with another one?\nAll I really need is color text on one monitor and fast color graphics\non the other.", "\n\nAnd/or taking the rubber ball out of the mouse (should be directions\nin the manual or on the bottom of the mouse) and cleaning it with\nalcohol (isopropyl, I believe - the same alcohol as used for cleaning\nyour cassette deck). This is good to do every so often, even if you\nhave a mouse pad. Dust still gets caught in the mouse and on the\nrubber ball. As well, lint and other garbage may find it's way onto\nthe rubber ball and get into the mouse damaging the horizontal and\nvertical sensors.\n\nHope this helps. Good luck.\n\n--\nSincerely,\n\nRobert Kayman\t----\tkayman@cs.stanford.edu -or- cpa@cs.stanford.edu", "Radio Shack stores sell them here in the States. Not sure if\nInterTan is carrying these for Australia or not...\n\nCost is $6 USD. You charge them under a fluorescent, then\nthey glow when exposed to IR.", "(stuff deleted)\n\nThis sounds like what happened to my HD a month ago. My HD was stacked\nwith Stacker v.2.0 (I run Dos5) Suddenly everything hung up, and most of\nthe HD got corrupted (directories changed into unreadable files with\n'funny' names). In other words: it is probably just the doubledisk part of\nDos6 that is troublesome. \n\nI now use Stacker v 3.0, and so far I have had no trouble. \n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\n Elisabeth Bull e_mail: eliza@swix.nvg.unit.no", "It seems silly, but while I've located things like tgif that can edit\ngif files, and various tools to convert to/from gif format, I haven't\nbeen able to locate a program that just opens a window and displays a\ngif file in it. I've looked thru various faq files, also to no avail.\nIs there one lurking about in some archive? Nothing sophisticated;\njust \"show the pretty picture\"?\n\nAlternatively, if I could locate the specs for gif, I don't suppose it\nwould be too hard to write it myself, but I have no idea where to even\nstart looking for the spec. (Well, actually, I do have an idea - this\nnewsgroup. ;-)\n\n", "\n\nAs far as I know, they did; my new Mac came with one yesterday...\n(And I got my ergonomic keyboard, on order for three months, the\nother day, too!)\n\nCheers,\n\n\t\t\t\t\t/ h+\n-- \n -- Jon W{tte, h+@nada.kth.se, Mac Hacker Deluxe --", "\nbackupable, if restored to the same machine >>(depends>> on the\nprogrammer... don't use a disk drive characteristic!) If the user >> did\nan upgrade to the machine, he/she should reinstall all programs any way.\n\nhave been quite pissed at any software that would have forced me to\n\nOpinion is understandable. :-) I assume you have a tape drive? Not all\nof us have about 200 floppies around for backup, you know. \n\n4Mb >of RAM to their computer? I did that a couple of weeks ago. It's in\nthe >BIOS, and if software had told me \"this isn't the machine you\ninstalled me >on\" I would never have used that software again. Really bad\nidea. \n\nRAM is something you add all the time, so no. It's more like BIOS\nmanufacturer and/or processor type (386/486/etc). Data cannot be used,\nesp with these new Flash ROM BIOS machines with updates on a diskette.\n\nOn the other hand, to make this LESS intrusive it could be disguised as\n\"Please Insert Original Disk #XX as I need file YYYYYY for update\". :-) \nIt would be perfectly reasonable... Sort of.\n\nuser's >> conscience should do that. \n\ngive >them that. Your scheme isn't going to stop anyone. \n\nOf course it is easier. Are you saying then the originals SHOULD allow\nonly one install? What is your point?\n\nthe quiz? TWO! Yes, TWO! (And don't ask me which ones they are.)\n\ninstruction >to just completely skip it. Not that difficult, really! And\nthere is very >little that commpanies can do to stop this type of thing. \nUsing PKLITE or >some similar utility would help, but only if the\nresulting compressed .EXE >were tagged as uncompressable. \n\nI know x86 and 680x0 assembly quite well, thank you. I know exactly which\ntwo bytes need to be changed, I have the code to do them too. I just said\n\"Don't ask me which ones.\" I didn't say I don't know what that means.\n\nSuch hacking can be EASILY discouraged by adding anti-patching code which\ndoes a self-check upon execution and refuse to load if CRC does not match\nvalue stored (encrypted, of course) in the program. It could be claimed\nas a part of anti-virus code, and it would not be far from the truth. \n\na special patch once the user registers that loudly exclaims upon bootup\nabove. \n\n\nDid ANYONE read what I wrote? That is NOT what I wrote! (or meant!) \n\nWhat I said was the program should have certain restriction (such as the\nrestrict-to-one-machine) UNTIL the program is registered with the\nmanufacturer. The manufacturer will then supply the\nthen-proven-legitimate-user with a patch that will disable the restriction\nand PROUDLY PROCLAIM the legal copy with the \"Registered to XXX\" screen.\n\n\nOf course they will, but that was NOT my point. The purpose of copy\nprotection is to discourage casual pirates (\"Oh, can I have a copy of\nthat?\"/\"Sure, here.\") and the less sophisticated pirates (\"Let's look for\nall those calls to INT13H...\") . Any one determined enough to break copy\nprotection can and will succeed. They can always backtrace the entire\nload-sequence of the program. The point of copy protection is to make\nsuch attempts take as long as possible while not intruding upon the uses\n(or to minimize such intrusion) of legitimate use. Pirates who see copy\nprotection as a challenge love breaking them, and no amount of copy\nprotection will stop them, but the rest of us WILL be stopped. How many\nof these hardcore pirates are there compared to rest of us? Not that many.", "I cant get through to the author of rtrace. His site is inaccessible\ncan he upload the new version somewhere else please?\n", "\nThere's only one physical size for VRAM SIMMs (unlike DRAM SIMMs which \ncome in many, many sizes and pinouts), although they do come with \ndiffering amounts of VRAM on them. The ones you need are 256KB SIMMs, are \norganized as 128K x 16, and have two 128K x 8 VRAM chips on them. This is \nthe only size which the Quadra and Centris machines can use.\n\n\nTwo.\n\n\nBoth SIMM slots must be filled; putting a SIMM in only one slot does \nnothing for you.\n\n\n80 ns for the Q800 and C650, 100 ns for the C610.\n\n\nThere are certain VRAM chip manufacturers whose parts are not compatible \nwith the Quadra and Centris video hardware. Make sure that the source you \nget them from guarantees compatiblity. In general, if it works in a Q950,\nit will work in a Q800.\n\n\nTrust me. ;-)", "Hi.\n\nThe RTrace ray tracer supports 3D text as a primitive, not collections of\nspheres, cylinders and so on...\nThe 3D chars are made of lines and splines that are extruded...\n\nPlease have a look at asterix.inescn.pt [192.35.246.17] in directory\npub/RTrace.\nIn pub/RTrace/tmp there are some demo images with high quality text.\nAll of them are called Text?.jpg (JPEG encoded). See them first and then\ntell me what you think.", "I have the following 45 rpm singles for sale. Most are collectable 7-inch \nrecords with picture sleeves. Price does not include postage which is $1.21 \nfor the first record, $1.69 for two, etc.\n\n\nPink Floyd|Learning to Fly (Columbia Promo/Picture Sleeve)|$5\nWaters, Roger|Sunset Strip (Columbia Promo/Picture Sleeve)|$10\nWaters, Roger|Sunset Strip (Columiba Promo)|$5\nWaters, Roger|Who Needs Information (Columiba Promo)|$10\n\n\nIf you are interested, please contact:", "\nGet Norton Desktop. Put groups within groups, groups on the desktop, icons\non the desktop, etc.\n", "I am starting to work on a project using DDE to transfer data. The \napplication came with an Excel macro which can transfer the data.\nI need to 'port' it to 1-2-3W. 1-2-3W uses a very different setup\nfor DDE macros.\n\nDoes anyone have any suggestions as to good references? I have \ndownloaded \"WW01117: Windows Dynamic Exchange (DDE)\" [the MS\nApplication Note]. Any books worth getting?\n\nThe specifics are:\n\nServer application: Dionex AI-450 Chromatography Data System\nClient application: 1-2-3 for Windows V1.1\n\nExcept for the macro, Dionex did not provide any documentation\nfor DDE. Also, I am having problems because I am trying to develop\nthe application on my PC, but to actually get data, you need to be\nconnect to the instrument. Any help here would be appreciated, too.\n\nThanks,\n-- ", "What exactly does the windows bitmap format look like? I mean, how is\nthe data stored: width, height, no. of colours, bitmap data? I couldn't\nfind anything in ths user manual, is there any other reference material\nwhich would give me this information?", ": \n: Okay, here is my configuration:\n: \n: 80486-33 Gateway 433C Micronics ISA\n: 12MB RAM \n: WD212MB IDE HD ( drive C: )\n: ST3144A 125MB IDE HD ( drive D: )\n: Adaptec SCSI 1542B controller, with SCSI BIOS enabled\n: Seagate ST296N 80MB SCSI drive\n: \n: Alrighty, when I boot up I get the Adaptec BIOS message, but it says\n: something like:\n: \n: \"Drive C: installed\"\n: \"Drive D: installed\"\n: \"ADaptec SCSI BIOS not installed!\"\n: \n: And I can't get to the Seagate drive.\n: \n: I go into PhoenixBIOS setup, remove the entry for drive D:, and BOOM, I can\n: access the Seagate. Is there a way to get two IDE drives and the Seagate\n: at the same time? I have ASPI4DOS.SYS, but it just hangs the system.\n: \n: Brian\n: \n\nThere is a simple answer. If my memory serves me the scsi bios will only\nwork as the first or second drive. Any \"built-in\" drives e.g. IDE are\ninstalled first and then when the scsi bios runs it will try to install\nas the next drive. But if there are already two drives, then no can do.\n\nThe solution is simple: use the aspi4dos device driver and disable the\nscsi bios (as it is useless in your case). It works like a champ! I\nhave seen a similar situation before.\n\nGood Luck", ": I cant get through to the author of rtrace. His site is inaccessible\n: can he upload the new version somewhere else please?", "Hey guys!\nI run twm and would like to execute some program before leaving twm. In other\nwords I would like to run some program before I do f.quit. Is it possible\nto make a menu section which would contain these two parts?", "Organization: Compact Solutions, Canberra ACT Australia\n\n > Hello, my question is could someone E-mail me the\n > names of manufactures\n > of the 16550 and predecsor UARTs. I have only seen\n\nNational Semiconductor are one that I know of.\n\nCheers,\nBen\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nBen Elliston\nBachelor of Engineering (Computer Engineering)\nUniversity of Canberra\n\nEmail: tp923021@jarrah.canberra.edu.au\n\nAlso: ellib@cbr.cpsg.com.au\nUUCP: ..!uunet!munnari!sserve.adfa.oz.au!compsol!root\nFidoNet: 3:620/262\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nIf a train station is where the train stops, what's a workstation?!\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------", "I have the following 45 rpm singles for sale. Most are collectable 7-inch \nrecords with picture sleeves. Price does not include postage which is $1.21 \nfor the first record, $1.69 for two, etc.\n\n\nRolling Stones|19th Nervous Brakdown (London Picture Sleeve)|$10\nRolling Stones|Jumpin Jack Flash (London Picture Sleeve)|$10\nRolling Stones|Mothers Little Helper (London Picture Sleeve)|$10\nRolling Stones|Paint It, Black (London Picture Sleeve)|$10\n\n\nIf you are intereste, please contact:", "I've never had quicken but I did use MYM in it's early days. I have MS Money\nfor Windows now and a financial planning package called Wealthbuilder by\nReality Technologies and Money Magazine. P.S. I also do my taxes with Turbo\nTax. All of these packages are good in their own way but none of them\nreally support me in doing what I really need to do - manage my finances.\n\nThe first company that comes along with a Windows based package that:\n manages budgets and accounts\n manages loans\n calculates taxes\n uses all of the above and knowledge about my investing philosophy to\n help me invest in the right investment vehicles, and\n integrates it all together\n\nwill have my business for life.", "comp.windows.x\n\n\tPlease igore my previouse calculation mistaked. Please see the correct\ncalculation. Sorry!\n x3 = 300;\n @ = art tan (500 - 270)/(800 - 100)) = 18.19 degrees;\n y3 = 100 + (300 - 270)/tan(@) = 191.29 ~= 191 integer\n\n", "I'm sold! Where do I sign up?\n", "What I want to be able to do is to set the cursor\ncolor to the same as the forground color that is set\nfor that xterm.\n\nFrom the man page.....\n\n-cr color\n This option specifies the color to use for text cur-\n sor. The default is to use the same foreground <---\n color that is used for text. <---\n\nHowever this doesnt seem to be the case, it appears to default to black\nor to whatever XTerm*cursorColor is set to.", "10 month old stereo system for sale. Luxman R-351 receiver, Onkyo TA-RW404\ntape deck, and Polk Monitor M4.6 book shelf speakers are for sale. Receiver\nhas 5 year warranty, and all equipment is in excellent condition. Paid $950\nfor the system and willing to consider the best offer. Will sell seperate\npieces also if desired. Please send best offer to suraj@cs.jhu.edu.\n\nSpeakers: Polk Monitor M4.6 bookshelf speakers\n\t Paid $250 pair. Willing to consider best offer.\n\nReceiver: Luxman R-351 receiver with 5 year (yes 5 years) warranty.\n\t Paid $475. Willing to consider best offer.\n\t Full remote, 2 pairs of speaker connections,\n\t 60 watts per channel, but drives like a 150 watts per channel\n\t Has all the standard features, and more.\n\nTape Deck: Onkyo TA-RW404 tape deck\n\t Paid $275. Willing to consider best offer.\n\t Dual cassette, Dolby B, C, and HX Pro.\n\t Input level control for recording, auto reverse both sides.\n Has all standard features.\n\nSend E-mail with best offer to suraj@cs.jhu.edu", "Hi all,\n\n I would like to purchase CD-ROM drive. The specs I would like to have is:\n\n * Applicable to Kodak multisession Photo-CD\n * SCSI(2) Interface\n * Compatible with Adaptec-1542B\n * Does not need any caddies\n * Cheaper ( < $500 if possible)\n * Double Speeded\n\n I believe there are no drives satisfying all of the above condition,\n so I would like to know all of your opinion. The above conditions\n are sorted by my priority.\n I think NEC CDR74-1/84-1 is a little bit expensive, but it DOES satisfy\n almost all of the above conditions. The problem is that I do not know\n the compatibility with 1542B. Has someone succeeded to connect these\n NEC drives to 1542B? I have heard a rumor that NEC drive is incompatible\n with 1542B adapter.\n Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.", "I want to convert a 500 Volt sinewave with frequency between 1 kHz\nand 10 kHz, to a 10 Volt sinewave with the same frequency, by\nmeans of a transformer. The secondary current will be .6 A (600 mA).\n\nWhat kind of transformer should I use (ferrite?)\nCan I buy one? If so, I need a partnumber and supplier\nIf I cannot buy one, how do I go about winding one myself?\nWhat core do I use, how big must it be in order not to saturate,\nwhat thickness copper wire, how many turns, etc.?\n\nI know little about analog electronics, so I hope some kind\nsoul here will help me out.\nPointers to relevant databooks will also be highly appreciated.\n\nThanks,", "Hi,\n\nDoes anyone have a source for 386DX/25 Motherboards? I've\nbeen calling around the local stores and everyone appears\nto be only stocking the 386DX/33/40 or 386SX/25/33 motherboards.\n\nHow difficult is it to modify a 386DX/40 motherboard to run at\n25 MHz? Is it as simple as replacing the system clock with a\nslower part?\n\nThanks!", "I am using an ibm dx-50 with EISA and local bus....and I need to get a\nlocal bus video card....\n\nThe only hitch is that I need one that will allow me to do the fastest\nanims (or flics) from ram. I have 64-megs of ram in 16-meg simms\n\nI am using 3D-Studio from Autodesk and Imagine from Impulse...\nThey both write out in the .FLC format....\n\nSo does anyone know what would be the best card for showing fast anims\nfrom ram.... ie. like the orchid, Diamond Stealth Viper, ATI....etc\n\nany help would be appreciated.... ( I am trying to circumvent the single-\nframe route)", "Hi\n\nI am trying to implement a pointer feature in Xlib\n\nI have multiple windows and all can take input and \nshow output simultaneously on all other displays\n\nI want to implement a pointer feature \n\nI would like to get the pointer to come up on all windows once \nI choose pointer in the menu and every one should be able\nto see it\n\nCan you give me some hints as to how I should proceed \nI am new to Xlib\n\n\n\nreplies will be greatly appreciated\n\nThank you", "\n\n\n\nThe Microsoft Founation classes (afx) that come with C/C++ 7.0 (and \nVisual C++) are very good, they already have a version for NT,\nit comes with source code, and is very close to the navtive API.\nIt also as some classes to manage data structures...\n\n...Stefan\n\n-- \n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n Stefan Olson Mail: stefan@olson.acme.gen.nz\n Kindness in giving creates love.", "Pascal Perret, in article <1993Apr21.125750.263@eicn.etna.ch>, wrote\n\nFunny thing, the InterNet: I have no idea what xv221 might be - except that it\nmight be something to do with X-windows on PCs (? If you know, and have used\nit, and think that it is good, email me. [ryanph@mrl.dsto.gov.au]).\n\nDV/X is a common abbreviation for QuarterDeck corporation's Desqview/X\nsoftware.\n\nI have not used DV/X yet, but reading the blurbs that Quarterdeck sent me, it\nsounds pretty great:\n\t* allows multiple DOS machines - the way that OS/2 does, but without\nrequiring 10 MB of RAM to get OS/2 going\n\t* pre-emptive multi-tasking\n\t* network computing - a proper X-windows client/server application -\nthis means that DOS program can be used on other X-windows computers on your\nnetwork, and that X-windows programs can be used on your DV/X computer\n\t* although it is NOT a version of Unix, it effectively has many of\nUnix's features, and mostly you will be able to compile unix-type programs\nusing the djgpp or gnu c compilers\n\nThey advertise regularly in all of the major computing and programming\nmagazines. They also have InterNet support online (support@qdeck.com).\n\n\nHope that this helps anyone wanting to know.", "What is hardware handshaking and when do I want to use it? Dan\n\n", "\n\n\nfix the table in .../X11R5/mit/server/ddx/sun/ or\nuse xmodmap(1).\n\nput\n stty pass8; setenv LC_CTYPE iso_8859_1; setenv LESSCHARSET latin1\nin your .login. the first prevents the stripping of bit 7.\nthe second sets the locale. the third makes less(1) show the character\ninstead of the octal representation.\n\nrj\n", "I just put a 33MHz 040 CPU into my Centris 610. Now I have a math coprocessor,\nbut is it possible to speed up the Centris to run at either 25MHz or 33MHz??\n\nI didn't see any oscillators on the motherboard like the ones on the IIsi's\nmotherboard! Where is the oscillator for the Centris?\n\nAny ideas?\n\nThanks\n\n", "Hello folks,\n\nI'm seeing these errors when I try to modify my key map:\n\nmwm: invalid accelerator specfication, line x\n\nI've added a line in the start up file before the line\nthat starts mwm. It looks like the following:\n\nxmodmap keymapfile\nmwm\n\nI think that the problem has to do with a conflict between\nfunction keys F1 through F7 which already have assigned\nfunctions (e.g. Move, Minimize, etc).\n\nThe odd thing is that I don't see these errors if I run\n\nxmodmap keymapfile\n\nfrom an xterm.\n\nCan anyone suggest a way to modify the key map, specifically\nF1 through F7 AND not have mwm (Motif Window Manager) complain.\n\nI realize this is a bit stupid, but we only have time to\nimplement, not time to learn how to implement.", "\n\nDEC does this only for their PX and PXG servers, known as 3D accelerators.\nThis boards have local offscreen memory which is limited and slow to\nhandle, thus they set this limit.\n", " \nALL this shows is that YOU don't know much about SCSI.\n\nSCSI-1 {with a SCSI-1 controler chip} range is indeed 0-5MB/s\nand that is ALL you have right about SCSI\nSCSI-1 {With a SCSI-2 controller chip}: 4-6MB/s with 10MB/s burst {8-bit}\n Note the INCREASE in SPEED, the Mac Quadra uses this version of SCSI-1\n so it DOES exist. Some PC use this set up too.\nSCSI-2 {8-bit/SCSI-1 mode}: 4-6MB/s with 10MB/s burst\nSCSI-2 {16-bit/wide or fast mode}: 8-12MB/s with 20MB/s burst\nSCSI-2 {32-bit/wide AND fast}: 15-20MB/s with 40MB/s burst\n \nBy your OWN data the \"Although SCSI is twice as fast as ESDI\" is correct\nWith a SCSI-2 controller chip SCSI-1 can reach 10MB/s which is indeed\n\"20% faster than IDE\" {120% of 8.3 is 9.96}. ALL these SCSI facts have been\nposted to this newsgroup in my Mac & IBM info sheet {available by FTP on \nsumex-aim.stanford.edu (36.44.0.6) in the info-mac/report as \nmac-ibm-compare[version #].txt (It should be 173 but 161 may still be there)}\n\nPart of this problem is both Mac and IBM PC are inconsiant about what SCSI\nis which. Though it is WELL documented that the Quadra has a SCSI-2 chip\nan Apple salesperson said \"it uses a fast SCSI-1 chip\" {Not at a 6MB/s,\n10MB/s burst it does not. SCSI-1 is 5MB/s maximum synchronous and Quadra\nuses ANsynchronous SCSI which is SLOWER} It seems that Mac and IBM see\nSCSI-1 interface and think 'SCSI-1' when it maybe a SCSI-1 interface driven\nin the machine by a SCSi-2 controller chip in 8-bit mode {Which is MUCH\nFASTER then true SCSI-1 can go}.", "\nJeez, that should do it.\n\n\nVery interesting application, controlled lighting and environment, moderate\ndistances ... might be more interesting than my application. Just a thought,\nyou could use a roof mounted IR sender, similar in operation to a TV remote\ncontrol that tells each persons coded IR pulser to send a pulse. A Hamamatsu\ndetector, as was mentioned in a previous message in this thread, would give\nthe current position. Store and collate this on a computer and you could\nreplay the movements on the screen. Interesting!\n\n--", "Gateway service has confirmed my suspicion, echoed by a couple of people\nwho responded to the original request for help. The ATI VLB video board\nuses the addresses for COM 4. They could suggest no work around.\nI will be returning the DF IO card they supplied for COM 4 (even though it\ncould not possibly work) for credit against a bus mouse. This will free\nup the COM port I need - too bad the original salesman who suggested either\nthe DF IO card or the bus mouse would solve my need for a port didn't know\nenough about the hardware.\n\nOtherwise I must say that the 486DX2/66 system has worked very well - no\nproblems with any other hardware or software.", "patrickd@wpi.WPI.EDU (Lazer) writes ...\n\nSpecs for the 68040 can fill a 500 page book. Some highlights are...\n32-bit address space w/ 32-bit data width. 18 32-bit integer registers \n& 8 80-bit floating point registers. 8K copyback capable caches,\n4-way set associative. Typical 1.2 clocks/integer instruction. 5\nclocks for a floating point multiply.\n\n(interesting aside: the 68040 can multiply two 80-bit floating point\nnumbers in less time than it can multiply two 32-bit integers)\n\n\nMore of the same but with multiple instruction dispatching. Figure\nabout 0.8 clocks per instruction typical (my guess). But the Motorola\nguys are pretty bright, it may be less.\n\n\nCall Motorola. I'm not typing it all in.\n\n\nI'm predicting that both the 680x0 and x86 lines are reaching their\nends. New experimental processors have 64-bit data pathways and can\nschedule up to 8 out of 32 instructions each clock cycle. That sort\nof trick can't really be done with CISC architectures.\n\nI finally saw some details on the 586/Pentium and was not greatly\nimpressed. They've finally done some work on the FPU to get it up to\nspeed, but otherwise it's only going to be a 2x speedup. And to get\nthat they're using two integer units, larger caches, and a branch\ntarget buffer. Yes, I know they're talking about 100MHz processors.\nBig whoop. Designing a 100MHz board is difficult and really\nexpensive. Priced 15ns memory chips lately?\n", "I'm looking for any leads to the source of a good Windows\nMeta File converter or interpreter. I need this for use\noutside the Windows environment. PD sources preferred, but\nnot a requirement. Please reply to the address below.\n", "\n\n\nI read this in an electronic \"magazine\" about NT:\n\n\"And for all the hoopla about NT, one would\nthink the thing would be multi-user but it's not. It supports\nonly one user at a time. It can support multiple clients but\nonly one actual user.\"\n\n\nYour mileage may vary!\n\n-- \n THIS POSTING DOES NOT REPRESENT THE OPINIONS OF MY EMPLOYERS.", "Just to let all you faithful Mitsumi CD Rom owners....\n\nEver notice QEMM can't load you CD Rom driver high? Ain't it a bitch?\n\nWell, you can call up Quarterdeck's BBS and get a hold of the new drivers\nthat CAN be loaded high. Sorry , I don't have their # on me. :-(\n\nI tested them out and the seem to work great!", "...\n\n\nOne of the items in the group folder (typically called Norton Desktop Applications)\nis labelled \"Norton Desktop Uninstall\". Need I say more!\n", "I have a DEC NT 486DX33 that has an Adaptec SCSI controller, hard disk\nand cd-rom drive. When I add a 3COMM Ethernet card (3C503) and reboot\nthe system I receive an error message that a boot device cannot be\nfound. Pull the 3COMM card and reboot, everything is fine. I've moved\nthe controller and 3COMM card to various slots, different positions\n(slot before the controller, slot after the controller) with the\nsame result. DEC hasn't responded to the problem yet. Any help would\nbe appreciated.", "[ Lots of stuff deleted because I felt like it ]\n\nThis MS bashing has definitely lost all its humor value.\n\nI think most of the people posting are forgetting that most users\nof MS products do not even know about internet, and Unix is that\nvery unfriendly place where bizzare abreviations replace the rather\ncomfortable abreviations they know. And the abreviations have subtle\ndifferences between the different vendors. While PC users tend to\ncustomize any windowing setup, they can not do much with their \ncommand line.\n\nSo to most of the computer users in the world MS product symbolize\nquality. MS has made their life easier, and more productive and to them\nthat is quality. They do not care about what innovative things MS has\ndone, other than to make their life with a computer one heck of a lot\neasier. You may know better than most computer users in this world\nbut that will not change their perception.\n\nFace it until Unix come up with a decent GUI that is available to\nall variations of Unix it just will not catch on with the mainstream\nof computer users. We here on the net are not mainstream computer users.\n\n\nBrian\n-- \n\nDisclaimer: The opinions expressed are mine not those of BNR.", "one way to get the system going with one floppy drive and one hard\ndisk on a 63 watt power supply is to first disconnect the power from\nthe floppy drive than turn on the pc, you will notice the hard drive\nhaving a real difficult time getting up to speed, but it manages.\nwhen booting is finished, plug in your floppy drive, now it will work.\n\n(ok I know this is not very user friendly, maybe you are better off\nbuying a 486-66 with 300 watt power supply or something like that)", "\n\nWell 48 bit colour *could* be for improved resolution but 16 bits per channel\nseems like a bit excessive. I have seen a paper that quoted 10 bits per channel\nof 12 bits for computational precision. More than that would seem to be wasted.\n\nPerhaps the frame buffer uses another colourspace which needs more bits to\nrepresent the full range - RGB is a cube so it is a compact encoding.\n\nMost likely however is that there are two separate 24 bit (8 bits per component)\nframe buffers. This set up, called double buffering, allows a complex 3d picture\nto be built up on one buffer while the other buffer (containing the previous\nframe) is displayed. This makes for smoother animation.\n\n\nWell hey if you want to brag about numbers, the 5000 range can take a PXG Turbo+\ncard with 96 bits per pixel. Full double buffering (Two 24 bit buffers), a 24\nbit Z buffer and an extra 24 bit buffer for off screen image storage.\n\nMind you the card costs more than your workstation.\n\n--\nChris Lilley\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTechnical Author, ITTI Computer Graphics and Visualisation Training Project\nComputer Graphics Unit, Manchester Computing Centre, Oxford Road, \nManchester, UK. M13 9PL Internet: C.C.Lilley@mcc.ac.uk \nVoice: +44 (0)61 275 6045 Fax: +44 (0)61 275 6040 Janet: C.C.Lilley@uk.ac.mcc", "Well, I just got my Centris 610 yesterday. It took just over two \nweeks from placing the order. The dealer (Rutgers computer store) \nappologized because Apple made a substitution on my order. I ordered\nthe one without ethernet, but they substituted one _with_ ethernet.\nHe wanted to know if that would be \"alright with me\"!!! They must\nbe backlogged on Centri w/out ethernet so they're just shipping them\nwith! \n\n\tAnyway, I'm very happy with the 610 with a few exceptions. \nBeing nosy, I decided to open it up _before_ powering it on for the first\ntime. The SCSI cable to the hard drive was only partially connected\n(must have come loose in shipping). No big deal, but I would have been\npissed if I tried to boot it and it wouldn't come up!\n\tThe hard drive also has an annoying high pitched whine. I've\nheard apple will exchange it if you complain, so I might try to get\nit swapped.\n\tI am also dissappionted by the lack of soft power-on/off. This\nwasn't mentioned in any of the literature I saw. Also, the location\nof the reset/interupt buttons is awful. Having keyboard control for\nthese functions was much more convenient.\n\tOh, and the screen seems tojump in a wierd way on power-up.\nI've seen this mentioned by others, so it must be a...feature...\n\tAnyway, above all, it's fast. A great machine at a great price!", "I have a 486 machine with a 3.5\" A: drive and a 5.25\" B: drive. I\nwant to swap them so 3.5\" drive is A: What do I have to do?\n\nTIA\n", "I have a Onkyo integrated amplifier that I am looking to get rid of.\n\t60w/ch\n\tworks great\n\tIntegra series\n\tnot a problem\n\n\tAsking $100 OBO\n\n\tIf your interested call me at 317-743-2656 or email this address.\n\tMAKE ME AN OFFER!!!\n\nTodd\n", "\nThis would be tedious, but if you have the time you could get the .bdf\nfile (I can email it to you if you don't have it or don't have easy access \nto the X source), and could make your own bold font from this. Since each\nglyph is just a bitmap, you could write a program to convert each\nglyph to a bitmap-readable file, use bitmap to make each glyph \"bold\", and\nconvert the results back to .bdf format. Then, use \"bdftopcf\" to create\nthe .pcf file. Then, stick the .pcf in /usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc (or wherever)\nand include it in fonts.dir and, voila, you'll have what you need!\n", "\n\n\na 286 upgrade would probably cost about $50, 386 about $150 or so. \nCoprocessors or accelerator cards would cost at least that much.\n", "New plotters, 2 of 'em, straight out of the box, but docs have all been \nlost...\n\nmake offer, COD shipping...", "\n: >I have a SoundBlaster board in a 486-SX PC, and I have it\n: >jumpered to IRQ 7, port 220h. Will this conflict with my\n: >parallel port? I just have an IDE controller, a multi-IO board\n: >with 2ser, 1Par port and a VGA board. Should I choose\n: >another IRQ besides 7? Or is IRQ 7 safe to use on 486 Motherboards?\n\n: Recently I was adding a modem to my computer, and I noticed that LPT1 uses\n: IRQ-7 and so does my SB card (220h). I've never had a problem, but I'm\n: just wondering why not. I thought this would cause a conflict. \n\nI would also like an explanation of this. If anyone can explain\nwhy the SB Pro and LPT 1 can share an IRQ, please do so.\nThanks\n", "From article , by wefiii@axion.UUCP (Warren E. Fridy III):\n =====\n Now isn't that just amazing?? :)\n\nSeriously, add program manager to your startup group and define a\nshortcut for it. Works.", "}Out of what hat did you pull this one? dB is a ratio not an RBOC! \n} [...]\n}Sorry. The unit for current is the AMPERE which is the name of a french-man\n}named AMPERE who studied electrical current. The term AMP is just an abbreviation\n}of it. The company AMP came after the AMPERE unit was already in use.\n} [...]\n}I don't know about this one, but it doesn't sound right.\n} [...]\n}Well you got one thing right!\n\nHello? John? Oh, nevermind...\n\nJeff", "\n\nWindows Sources Magazine reviewed a number of 17\" monitors recently\nand they too said that the Nanao T560i was the best monitor to get if\nyou had the money. But they also said that the Mitsubishi Diamond Pro\n17 is the next best choice and that it has superb picture quality.\nThis monitor can be had for around $1070.\n\nHas anyone actually seen any of these? I am also thinking of buying a\n17\" monitor and was going to consider the Mitsubishi. If I remember\ncorrectly, I think its viewing area is 16\" measured diagonally.\n\nThanks.\n", "\nThere you go. COM1 and COM3 use the same IRQ, therefore you can't use\na mouse on COM3 and a modem on COM1, or vice versa. It's a limitation\nof DOS.\n\nAnd in fact Windows will not see a mouse on anything other than COM1\nor COM2. Accept this fact, and either get a bus mouse, or get a new\ncomputer.\n\n\nNo. The advice above applies....", ": >over where it places its temp files: it just places them in its\n: >\"current directory\".\n\n: I have to beg to differ on this point, as the batch file I use\n: to launch cview cd's to the dir where cview resides and then\n: invokes it. every time I crash cview, the 0-byte temp file\n: is found in the root dir of the drive cview is on.\n\nThis is what I posted that cview uses the root directory of the drive\ncview is on. However, since It has so much trouble reading large files\nfrom floppy, I suspect that it uses the root directory of the drive the\nimage files are on.", "Hi, all. This is my first posting, so be gentle...\n\nI have a Zenith external floppy which has a DB25 connector, and I'd\nlike to use it with my Sharp and Toshiba laptops, which also take a\nDB25 for their ext floppy, but it doesn't work. I have the pinouts\nfor the Zenith, and would like to make adapters so I can use it.\n\nDoes anyone have pinouts for these or other manufacturers' DB25 ext\nfloppy connectors? I would greatly appreciate this info, either by\ne-mail or fax.\n\nThanks very much,\n Jeff, aka flyboy@coyote.trw.com\n fax (310) 882-8800\n", "I need some help with a multi port serial board of unknown origin. I'm\nhoping someone knows what this board is, or, even better, what the various\nswitches and jumbers are used for.\n\nAnyway, here's description of the card: It is a 16-bit card, although\nI noticed that none of the contacts in the 16-bit extension are connected\nto anything. It has 4 NS16550AN chips in sockets, and 4 corresponding\nconnecters labeled COM1 - COM4. There is also an external female connector\nwith 37 pins. There are 8 banks of 8 switches, 2 banks of 4 switches, and\n7 jumpers. I believe that I have determined, by following traces, that\nSW5 and SW6 (12 switches in all) control the interrupt level for each of\nthe COM ports. SW5[1-4] are for IRQ3, SW5[5-8] are for IRQ4, and SW6[1-4]\nare for IRQ5. The other switches are beyond my meager ability to follow.\n\t \nThe only identification printed on the board is \"MULTI SERIAL PORT BOARD\"\nacross the bottom. There is a box for serial number, but it is blank.\nImmediately below the words \"SERIAL NO\", but not in the box left for\nthe S/N, are the numbers \"1990 2 8\".\n\nAnyone have any clues? Your help is greatly appreciated.\n", "Which would YOU choose, and why?\n\nLike lots of people, I'd really like to increase my data transfer rate from\nthe hard drive. Right now I have a 15ms 210Mb IDE drive (Seagate 1239A), and\na standard IDE controller card on my ISA 486-50.\n\nI'm currently thinking about adding another HD, in the 300Mb to 500Mb range.\nAnd I'm thinking hard about buying a SCSI drive (SCSI for the future benefit).\nI believe I'm getting something like 890Kb/sec transfer right now (according\nto NU).\n\nHow would this number compare if I bought the state-of-the-art SCSI card for\nmy ISA PC, and the state-of-the-art SCSI hard drive (the best system I could\nhope for)?\n\nObviously money factors into this choice as well as any other, but what would\nYOU want to use on your ISA system? And how much would it cost?\n\nAlong those lines, what kind of transfer rate could I see with my IDE HD's if I\nwere to buy the top-of-the-line IDE caching controller for my 200Mb, 15ms HD?\nAnd how much would it cost?\n\nThanks for any comments.", "FYI: The actual horizontal dot placement resoution of an HP\ndeskjet is 1/600th inch. The electronics and dynamics of the ink\ncartridge, however, limit you to generating dots at 300 per inch.\nOn almost any paper, the ink wicks more than 1/300th inch anyway.\n\nThe method of depositing and fusing toner of a laster printer\nresults in much less spread than ink drop technology.\n\nIt doesn't take much investigation to see that the mechanical and\nelectronic complement of a laser printer is more complex than\ninexpensive ink jet printers. Recall also that laser printers\noffer a much higher throughput: 10 ppm for a laser versus about 1\nppm for an ink jet printer.\n\nSomething else to think about is the cost of consumables over the\nlife of the printer. A 3000 page yield toner cartridge is about\n$US 75-80 at discount while HP high capacity (~500-1000 page yield)\ncartridges are about $US 22 at discount. It could be that over the\nlife cycle of the printer that consumables for laser printers are\nless than ink jet printers. It is getting progressively closer\nbetween the two technologies. Laser printers are usually desinged\nfor higher duty cycles in pages per month and longer product\nreplacement cycles.\n\n", "I got a number of requests for code.\nSo, here it is.\nIts written in 80x86 ASM. \nBorland TASM will do.\n\nTASM LGA.ASM\nTLINK /t LGA.ASM\n\n\nThe code:\n\n;----------------------------------------------------------------------\n; LGA ncryption\n; (C) by Nick Nassuphis\n;----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nCODE\tSEGMENT\n\tASSUME\tCS:CODE, DS:CODE\n\t\n\tORG\t100h\n\nStart:\n\tJMP\tBegin\n\n;----------------------------------------------------------------------\n;\n; Gas particle assigment:\n;\n; BIT 0 particle moving EAST\n; BIT 1 particle moving WEST\n; BIT 2 particle moving NORTH\n; BIT 3 particle moving SOUTH\n;\n; BIT 4 particle moving EAST\n; BIT 5 particle moving WEST\n; BIT 6 particle moving NORTH\n; BIT 7 particle moving SOUTH\n;\n;\n; Collisiong Rules:\n;\n; 1. Gas Rules\n;\n; IF (E & W) AND !(N & S) THEN (E,W)->(N,S)\n; IF (N & S) AND !(E & W) THEN (N,S)->(E,W)\n;\n; for nibbles:\n;\n; 1100 -> 0011\n; 0011 -> 0011\n;\n; and for bytes:\n;\n; 11000000 -> 00110000\n; 00110000 -> 11000000\n; 00001100 -> 00000011\n; 00000011 -> 00001100\n; 00110011 -> 11001100\n; 00111100 -> 11000011\n; 11000011 -> 00111100\n; 11001100 -> 00110011\n;\n;\n; 2. Reflection Rules\n;\n; just swap bits along directions\n;\n;----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n;\n; This look-up table implements two particle collisions\n; for the HPP lattice gas\n;\nHPPRule:\nDB 00000000B ;00000000\nDB 00000001B ;00000001\nDB 00000010B ;00000010\nDB 00001100B ;00000011\nDB 00000100B ;00000100\nDB 00000101B ;00000101\nDB 00000110B ;00000110\nDB 00000111B ;00000111\nDB 00001000B ;00001000\nDB 00001001B ;00001001\nDB 00001010B ;00001010\nDB 00001011B ;00001011\nDB 00000011B ;00001100\nDB 00001101B ;00001101\nDB 00001110B ;00001110\nDB 00001111B ;00001111\nDB 00010000B ;00010000\nDB 00010001B ;00010001\nDB 00010010B ;00010010\nDB 00011100B ;00010011\nDB 00010100B ;00010100\nDB 00010101B ;00010101\nDB 00010110B ;00010110\nDB 00010111B ;00010111\nDB 00011000B ;00011000\nDB 00011001B ;00011001\nDB 00011010B ;00011010\nDB 00011011B ;00011011\nDB 00010011B ;00011100\nDB 00011101B ;00011101\nDB 00011110B ;00011110\nDB 00011111B ;00011111\nDB 00100000B ;00100000\nDB 00100001B ;00100001\nDB 00100010B ;00100010\nDB 00101100B ;00100011\nDB 00100100B ;00100100\nDB 00100101B ;00100101\nDB 00100110B ;00100110\nDB 00100111B ;00100111\nDB 00101000B ;00101000\nDB 00101001B ;00101001\nDB 00101010B ;00101010\nDB 00101011B ;00101011\nDB 00100011B ;00101100\nDB 00101101B ;00101101\nDB 00101110B ;00101110\nDB 00101111B ;00101111\nDB 11000000B ;00110000\nDB 11000001B ;00110001\nDB 11000010B ;00110010\nDB 11001100B ;00110011\nDB 11000100B ;00110100\nDB 11000101B ;00110101\nDB 11000110B ;00110110\nDB 11000111B ;00110111\nDB 11001000B ;00111000\nDB 11001001B ;00111001\nDB 11001010B ;00111010\nDB 11001011B ;00111011\nDB 11000011B ;00111100\nDB 11001101B ;00111101\nDB 11001110B ;00111110\nDB 11001111B ;00111111\nDB 01000000B ;01000000\nDB 01000001B ;01000001\nDB 01000010B ;01000010\nDB 01001100B ;01000011\nDB 01000100B ;01000100\nDB 01000101B ;01000101\nDB 01000110B ;01000110\nDB 01000111B ;01000111\nDB 01001000B ;01001000\nDB 01001001B ;01001001\nDB 01001010B ;01001010\nDB 01001011B ;01001011\nDB 01000011B ;01001100\nDB 01001101B ;01001101\nDB 01001110B ;01001110\nDB 01001111B ;01001111\nDB 01010000B ;01010000\nDB 01010001B ;01010001\nDB 01010010B ;01010010\nDB 01011100B ;01010011\nDB 01010100B ;01010100\nDB 01010101B ;01010101\nDB 01010110B ;01010110\nDB 01010111B ;01010111\nDB 01011000B ;01011000\nDB 01011001B ;01011001\nDB 01011010B ;01011010\nDB 01011011B ;01011011\nDB 01010011B ;01011100\nDB 01011101B ;01011101\nDB 01011110B ;01011110\nDB 01011111B ;01011111\nDB 01100000B ;01100000\nDB 01100001B ;01100001\nDB 01100010B ;01100010\nDB 01101100B ;01100011\nDB 01100100B ;01100100\nDB 01100101B ;01100101\nDB 01100110B ;01100110\nDB 01100111B ;01100111\nDB 01101000B ;01101000\nDB 01101001B ;01101001\nDB 01101010B ;01101010\nDB 01101011B ;01101011\nDB 01100011B ;01101100\nDB 01101101B ;01101101\nDB 01101110B ;01101110\nDB 01101111B ;01101111\nDB 01110000B ;01110000\nDB 01110001B ;01110001\nDB 01110010B ;01110010\nDB 01111100B ;01110011\nDB 01110100B ;01110100\nDB 01110101B ;01110101\nDB 01110110B ;01110110\nDB 01110111B ;01110111\nDB 01111000B ;01111000\nDB 01111001B ;01111001\nDB 01111010B ;01111010\nDB 01111011B ;01111011\nDB 01110011B ;01111100\nDB 01111101B ;01111101\nDB 01111110B ;01111110\nDB 01111111B ;01111111\nDB 10000000B ;10000000\nDB 10000001B ;10000001\nDB 10000010B ;10000010\nDB 10001100B ;10000011\nDB 10000100B ;10000100\nDB 10000101B ;10000101\nDB 10000110B ;10000110\nDB 10000111B ;10000111\nDB 10001000B ;10001000\nDB 10001001B ;10001001\nDB 10001010B ;10001010\nDB 10001011B ;10001011\nDB 10000011B ;10001100\nDB 10001101B ;10001101\nDB 10001110B ;10001110\nDB 10001111B ;10001111\nDB 10010000B ;10010000\nDB 10010001B ;10010001\nDB 10010010B ;10010010\nDB 10011100B ;10010011\nDB 10010100B ;10010100\nDB 10010101B ;10010101\nDB 10010110B ;10010110\nDB 10010111B ;10010111\nDB 10011000B ;10011000\nDB 10011001B ;10011001\nDB 10011010B ;10011010\nDB 10011011B ;10011011\nDB 10010011B ;10011100\nDB 10011101B ;10011101\nDB 10011110B ;10011110\nDB 10011111B ;10011111\nDB 10100000B ;10100000\nDB 10100001B ;10100001\nDB 10100010B ;10100010\nDB 10101100B ;10100011\nDB 10100100B ;10100100\nDB 10100101B ;10100101\nDB 10100110B ;10100110\nDB 10100111B ;10100111\nDB 10101000B ;10101000\nDB 10101001B ;10101001\nDB 10101010B ;10101010\nDB 10101011B ;10101011\nDB 10100011B ;10101100\nDB 10101101B ;10101101\nDB 10101110B ;10101110\nDB 10101111B ;10101111\nDB 10110000B ;10110000\nDB 10110001B ;10110001\nDB 10110010B ;10110010\nDB 10111100B ;10110011\nDB 10110100B ;10110100\nDB 10110101B ;10110101\nDB 10110110B ;10110110\nDB 10110111B ;10110111\nDB 10111000B ;10111000\nDB 10111001B ;10111001\nDB 10111010B ;10111010\nDB 10111011B ;10111011\nDB 10110011B ;10111100\nDB 10111101B ;10111101\nDB 10111110B ;10111110\nDB 10111111B ;10111111\nDB 00110000B ;11000000\nDB 00110001B ;11000001\nDB 00110010B ;11000010\nDB 00111100B ;11000011\nDB 00110100B ;11000100\nDB 00110101B ;11000101\nDB 00110110B ;11000110\nDB 00110111B ;11000111\nDB 00111000B ;11001000\nDB 00111001B ;11001001\nDB 00111010B ;11001010\nDB 00111011B ;11001011\nDB 00110011B ;11001100\nDB 00111101B ;11001101\nDB 00111110B ;11001110\nDB 00111111B ;11001111\nDB 11010000B ;11010000\nDB 11010001B ;11010001\nDB 11010010B ;11010010\nDB 11011100B ;11010011\nDB 11010100B ;11010100\nDB 11010101B ;11010101\nDB 11010110B ;11010110\nDB 11010111B ;11010111\nDB 11011000B ;11011000\nDB 11011001B ;11011001\nDB 11011010B ;11011010\nDB 11011011B ;11011011\nDB 11010011B ;11011100\nDB 11011101B ;11011101\nDB 11011110B ;11011110\nDB 11011111B ;11011111\nDB 11100000B ;11100000\nDB 11100001B ;11100001\nDB 11100010B ;11100010\nDB 11101100B ;11100011\nDB 11100100B ;11100100\nDB 11100101B ;11100101\nDB 11100110B ;11100110\nDB 11100111B ;11100111\nDB 11101000B ;11101000\nDB 11101001B ;11101001\nDB 11101010B ;11101010\nDB 11101011B ;11101011\nDB 11100011B ;11101100\nDB 11101101B ;11101101\nDB 11101110B ;11101110\nDB 11101111B ;11101111\nDB 11110000B ;11110000\nDB 11110001B ;11110001\nDB 11110010B ;11110010\nDB 11111100B ;11110011\nDB 11110100B ;11110100\nDB 11110101B ;11110101\nDB 11110110B ;11110110\nDB 11110111B ;11110111\nDB 11111000B ;11111000\nDB 11111001B ;11111001\nDB 11111010B ;11111010\nDB 11111011B ;11111011\nDB 11110011B ;11111100\nDB 11111101B ;11111101\nDB 11111110B ;11111110\nDB 11111111B ;11111111\n\n;\n; This rule implements the velocity-reversal needed to\n; run the gas evolution in reverse. Its called a WallRule\n; because its the same as is all particles hit a wall\n; head on.\n;\nWallRule:\nDB 00000000B ;00000000\nDB 00000010B ;00000001\nDB 00000001B ;00000010\nDB 00001100B ;00000011\nDB 00001000B ;00000100\nDB 00001010B ;00000101\nDB 00001001B ;00000110\nDB 00001011B ;00000111\nDB 00000100B ;00001000\nDB 00000110B ;00001001\nDB 00000101B ;00001010\nDB 00000111B ;00001011\nDB 00000011B ;00001100\nDB 00001110B ;00001101\nDB 00001101B ;00001110\nDB 00001111B ;00001111\nDB 00100000B ;00010000\nDB 00100010B ;00010001\nDB 00100001B ;00010010\nDB 00101100B ;00010011\nDB 00101000B ;00010100\nDB 00101010B ;00010101\nDB 00101001B ;00010110\nDB 00101011B ;00010111\nDB 00100100B ;00011000\nDB 00100110B ;00011001\nDB 00100101B ;00011010\nDB 00100111B ;00011011\nDB 00100011B ;00011100\nDB 00101110B ;00011101\nDB 00101101B ;00011110\nDB 00101111B ;00011111\nDB 00010000B ;00100000\nDB 00010010B ;00100001\nDB 00010001B ;00100010\nDB 00011100B ;00100011\nDB 00011000B ;00100100\nDB 00011010B ;00100101\nDB 00011001B ;00100110\nDB 00011011B ;00100111\nDB 00010100B ;00101000\nDB 00010110B ;00101001\nDB 00010101B ;00101010\nDB 00010111B ;00101011\nDB 00010011B ;00101100\nDB 00011110B ;00101101\nDB 00011101B ;00101110\nDB 00011111B ;00101111\nDB 11000000B ;00110000\nDB 11000010B ;00110001\nDB 11000001B ;00110010\nDB 11001100B ;00110011\nDB 11001000B ;00110100\nDB 11001010B ;00110101\nDB 11001001B ;00110110\nDB 11001011B ;00110111\nDB 11000100B ;00111000\nDB 11000110B ;00111001\nDB 11000101B ;00111010\nDB 11000111B ;00111011\nDB 11000011B ;00111100\nDB 11001110B ;00111101\nDB 11001101B ;00111110\nDB 11001111B ;00111111\nDB 10000000B ;01000000\nDB 10000010B ;01000001\nDB 10000001B ;01000010\nDB 10001100B ;01000011\nDB 10001000B ;01000100\nDB 10001010B ;01000101\nDB 10001001B ;01000110\nDB 10001011B ;01000111\nDB 10000100B ;01001000\nDB 10000110B ;01001001\nDB 10000101B ;01001010\nDB 10000111B ;01001011\nDB 10000011B ;01001100\nDB 10001110B ;01001101\nDB 10001101B ;01001110\nDB 10001111B ;01001111\nDB 10100000B ;01010000\nDB 10100010B ;01010001\nDB 10100001B ;01010010\nDB 10101100B ;01010011\nDB 10101000B ;01010100\nDB 10101010B ;01010101\nDB 10101001B ;01010110\nDB 10101011B ;01010111\nDB 10100100B ;01011000\nDB 10100110B ;01011001\nDB 10100101B ;01011010\nDB 10100111B ;01011011\nDB 10100011B ;01011100\nDB 10101110B ;01011101\nDB 10101101B ;01011110\nDB 10101111B ;01011111\nDB 10010000B ;01100000\nDB 10010010B ;01100001\nDB 10010001B ;01100010\nDB 10011100B ;01100011\nDB 10011000B ;01100100\nDB 10011010B ;01100101\nDB 10011001B ;01100110\nDB 10011011B ;01100111\nDB 10010100B ;01101000\nDB 10010110B ;01101001\nDB 10010101B ;01101010\nDB 10010111B ;01101011\nDB 10010011B ;01101100\nDB 10011110B ;01101101\nDB 10011101B ;01101110\nDB 10011111B ;01101111\nDB 10110000B ;01110000\nDB 10110010B ;01110001\nDB 10110001B ;01110010\nDB 10111100B ;01110011\nDB 10111000B ;01110100\nDB 10111010B ;01110101\nDB 10111001B ;01110110\nDB 10111011B ;01110111\nDB 10110100B ;01111000\nDB 10110110B ;01111001\nDB 10110101B ;01111010\nDB 10110111B ;01111011\nDB 10110011B ;01111100\nDB 10111110B ;01111101\nDB 10111101B ;01111110\nDB 10111111B ;01111111\nDB 01000000B ;10000000\nDB 01000010B ;10000001\nDB 01000001B ;10000010\nDB 01001100B ;10000011\nDB 01001000B ;10000100\nDB 01001010B ;10000101\nDB 01001001B ;10000110\nDB 01001011B ;10000111\nDB 01000100B ;10001000\nDB 01000110B ;10001001\nDB 01000101B ;10001010\nDB 01000111B ;10001011\nDB 01000011B ;10001100\nDB 01001110B ;10001101\nDB 01001101B ;10001110\nDB 01001111B ;10001111\nDB 01100000B ;10010000\nDB 01100010B ;10010001\nDB 01100001B ;10010010\nDB 01101100B ;10010011\nDB 01101000B ;10010100\nDB 01101010B ;10010101\nDB 01101001B ;10010110\nDB 01101011B ;10010111\nDB 01100100B ;10011000\nDB 01100110B ;10011001\nDB 01100101B ;10011010\nDB 01100111B ;10011011\nDB 01100011B ;10011100\nDB 01101110B ;10011101\nDB 01101101B ;10011110\nDB 01101111B ;10011111\nDB 01010000B ;10100000\nDB 01010010B ;10100001\nDB 01010001B ;10100010\nDB 01011100B ;10100011\nDB 01011000B ;10100100\nDB 01011010B ;10100101\nDB 01011001B ;10100110\nDB 01011011B ;10100111\nDB 01010100B ;10101000\nDB 01010110B ;10101001\nDB 01010101B ;10101010\nDB 01010111B ;10101011\nDB 01010011B ;10101100\nDB 01011110B ;10101101\nDB 01011101B ;10101110\nDB 01011111B ;10101111\nDB 01110000B ;10110000\nDB 01110010B ;10110001\nDB 01110001B ;10110010\nDB 01111100B ;10110011\nDB 01111000B ;10110100\nDB 01111010B ;10110101\nDB 01111001B ;10110110\nDB 01111011B ;10110111\nDB 01110100B ;10111000\nDB 01110110B ;10111001\nDB 01110101B ;10111010\nDB 01110111B ;10111011\nDB 01110011B ;10111100\nDB 01111110B ;10111101\nDB 01111101B ;10111110\nDB 01111111B ;10111111\nDB 00110000B ;11000000\nDB 00110010B ;11000001\nDB 00110001B ;11000010\nDB 00111100B ;11000011\nDB 00111000B ;11000100\nDB 00111010B ;11000101\nDB 00111001B ;11000110\nDB 00111011B ;11000111\nDB 00110100B ;11001000\nDB 00110110B ;11001001\nDB 00110101B ;11001010\nDB 00110111B ;11001011\nDB 00110011B ;11001100\nDB 00111110B ;11001101\nDB 00111101B ;11001110\nDB 00111111B ;11001111\nDB 11100000B ;11010000\nDB 11100010B ;11010001\nDB 11100001B ;11010010\nDB 11101100B ;11010011\nDB 11101000B ;11010100\nDB 11101010B ;11010101\nDB 11101001B ;11010110\nDB 11101011B ;11010111\nDB 11100100B ;11011000\nDB 11100110B ;11011001\nDB 11100101B ;11011010\nDB 11100111B ;11011011\nDB 11100011B ;11011100\nDB 11101110B ;11011101\nDB 11101101B ;11011110\nDB 11101111B ;11011111\nDB 11010000B ;11100000\nDB 11010010B ;11100001\nDB 11010001B ;11100010\nDB 11011100B ;11100011\nDB 11011000B ;11100100\nDB 11011010B ;11100101\nDB 11011001B ;11100110\nDB 11011011B ;11100111\nDB 11010100B ;11101000\nDB 11010110B ;11101001\nDB 11010101B ;11101010\nDB 11010111B ;11101011\nDB 11010011B ;11101100\nDB 11011110B ;11101101\nDB 11011101B ;11101110\nDB 11011111B ;11101111\nDB 11110000B ;11110000\nDB 11110010B ;11110001\nDB 11110001B ;11110010\nDB 11111100B ;11110011\nDB 11111000B ;11110100\nDB 11111010B ;11110101\nDB 11111001B ;11110110\nDB 11111011B ;11110111\nDB 11110100B ;11111000\nDB 11110110B ;11111001\nDB 11110101B ;11111010\nDB 11110111B ;11111011\nDB 11110011B ;11111100\nDB 11111110B ;11111101\nDB 11111101B ;11111110\nDB 11111111B ;11111111\n\n\nMAXBYTE\tEQU\t55\nLINENO\tEQU\t23\n\nSrcPtr\tDW\tOFFSET Buffer1\nDesPtr\tDW\tOFFSET Buffer2\n\nSaveBuff:\n\tDB\tMAXBYTE*(LINENO+1) DUP(0)\n\t\nBuffer1:\n\tDB\tMAXBYTE*(LINENO+1) DUP(0)\n\tDB\t256 DUP(0)\n\nBuffer2:\n\tDB\tMAXBYTE*(LINENO+1) DUP(0)\n\tDB\t256 DUP(0)\n\n;----------------------------------------------------------------------\n;\n;\n;\n;----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nData:\nDB\t\" \"\nDB\t\" \"\nDB\t\" \"\nDB\t\" This is a test for a Lattice Gas based encryption \"\nDB\t\" algorithm. The data is encoded as particles of a \"\nDB\t\" digital gas, whose time evolution is then simulated \"\nDB\t\" with a cellular-automaton type algorithm. Decryption \"\nDB\t\" can be achieved by running the simulation in reverse. \"\nDB\t\" A thermodynamic argument ensures that even if a single\"\nDB\t\" bit is flipped, no decryption of the data is possible \"\nDB\t\" \"\nDB\t\" After the gas is let to evolve for 256 timesteps, \"\nDB\t\" one can either run the reverse evolution by pressing \"\nDB\t\" space, or flip a bit and then run by pressing '0' \"\nDB\t\" \"\nDB\t\" For a cryptographic application, the key would consist\"\nDB\t\" of the number of time steps and the time and location \"\nDB\t\" of specific bit inversions. \"\nDB\t\" \"\nDB\t\" \"\nDB\t\" \"\nDB\t\" \"\nDB\t\" \"\n\n;\n; Fill the gas with a piece of code\n;\nInitGas:\n\tMOV\tDI,CS:SrcPtr\n\tMOV\tSI,OFFSET Data\n\n\tMOV\tCX,LINENO\nIG0:\n\tPUSH\tDI\n\tPUSH\tCX\n\tMOV\tCX,MAXBYTE\nIG1:\n\tMOV\tAL,CS:[SI]\n\tMOV\tCS:[DI],AL\n\tINC\tSI\n\tINC\tDI\n\tLOOP\tIG1\n\tPOP\tCX\n\tPOP\tDI\n\tADD\tDI,MAXBYTE\n\tLOOP\tIG0\n\tMOV\tSI,CS:SrcPtr\n\tMOV\tDI,OFFSET InitGas\n\tMOV\tCX,MAXBYTE*3\n\tMOV\tAL,0\nLG2:\n\tMOV\tBYTE PTR CS:[SI],AL\n\tNOT\tAL\n\tINC\tSI\n\tLOOP\tLG2\n\tRET\n\n;----------------------------------------------------------------------\n;\n; Display gas molecules bouncing around\n;\nShowGas:\n\tPUSH\tES\n\tPUSH\tSI\n\tPUSH\tDI\n\tPUSH\tCX\n\tPUSH\tBX\n\n\tMOV\tAX,0B800h\n\tMOV\tES,AX\n\tMOV\tSI,CS:SrcPtr\n\tMOV\tDI,160*2+10*2\n\tMOV\tCX,LINENO-3\n\tADD\tSI,MAXBYTE*3\nSG1:\n\tPUSH\tCX\n\tPUSH\tDI\n\n\tMOV\tCX,MAXBYTE\nSG2:\n\tMOV\tAL,CS:[SI]\n\tMOV\tBYTE PTR ES:[DI],AL\n\tINC\tSI\n\tADD\tDI,2\n\tDEC\tCX\n\tJNZ\tSG2\n\n\tPOP\tDI\n\tPOP\tCX\n\tADD\tDI,160\n\tLOOP\tSG1\n\t\n\tPOP\tBX\n\tPOP\tCX\n\tPOP\tDI\n\tPOP\tSI\n\tPOP\tES\n\tRET\n\n;----------------------------------------------------------------------\n;\n; CS:SI \t->\tSourse of Data\n; CS:DI\t\t->\tDestination of Data\n;\nScanOneMiddleLine:\n;\n; first byte is a special case because of warparound\n;\n\tMOV\tBL,0\t\t\t; AL is the \"assembled\" byte.\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI-MAXBYTE]\t; NORTH is one line \"up\" (lower)\n\tAND\tBH,10001000B\t\t; and at bits 7 and 3\n\tOR\tBL,BH\t\t\t; OR them into the assembled byte\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI+MAXBYTE]\t; SOUTH is one line \"down\" (higher)\n\tAND\tBH,01000100B\t\t; and at bits 6 and 2\n\tOR\tBL,BH\t\t\t; place the stuff into AL\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI+(MAXBYTE-1)]\t; WEST is one byte \"left\" (lower)\n\tAND\tBH,00100010B\t\t; and at bits 5 and 1\n\tOR\tBL,BH\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI+1]\t\t; EAST is one byte \"right\" (higher)\n\tAND\tBH,00010001B\t\t; and at bits 4 and 0\n\tOR\tBL,BH\n\tMOV\tBH,0\n\tMOV\tAL,BYTE PTR CS:[BX + OFFSET HPPRule]\n\tMOV\tCS:[DI],AL\n\tINC\tSI\n\tINC\tDI\n;\n; middle bytes can be handled in a loop \n;\n\tMOV\tCX,MAXBYTE-2\nSOL1:\n\tMOV\tBL,0\t\t\t; AL is the \"assembled\" byte.\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI-MAXBYTE]\t; NORTH is one line \"up\" (lower)\n\tAND\tBH,10001000B\t\t; and at bits 7 and 3\n\tOR\tBL,BH\t\t\t; OR them into the assembled byte\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI+MAXBYTE]\t; SOUTH is one line \"down\" (higher)\n\tAND\tBH,01000100B\t\t; and at bits 6 and 2\n\tOR\tBL,BH\t\t\t; place the stuff into AL\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI-1]\t\t; WEST is one byte \"left\" (lower)\n\tAND\tBH,00100010B\t\t; and at bits 5 and 1\n\tOR\tBL,BH\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI+1]\t\t; EAST is one byte \"right\" (higher)\n\tAND\tBH,00010001B\t\t; and at bits 4 and 0\n\tOR\tBL,BH\n\tMOV\tBH,0\n\tMOV\tAL,BYTE PTR CS:[BX + OFFSET HPPRule]\n\tMOV\tCS:[DI],AL\n\tINC\tSI\n\tINC\tDI\n\tLOOP\tSOL1\n;\n; last byte is also special\n;\n\tMOV\tBL,0\t\t\t; AL is the \"assembled\" byte.\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI-MAXBYTE]\t; NORTH is one line \"up\" (lower)\n\tAND\tBH,10001000B\t\t; and at bits 7 and 3\n\tOR\tBL,BH\t\t\t; OR them into the assembled byte\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI+MAXBYTE]\t; SOUTH is one line \"down\" (higher)\n\tAND\tBH,01000100B\t\t; and at bits 6 and 2\n\tOR\tBL,BH\t\t\t; place the stuff into AL\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI-1]\t\t; WEST is one byte \"left\" (lower)\n\tAND\tBH,00100010B\t\t; and at bits 5 and 1\n\tOR\tBL,BH\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI-(MAXBYTE-1)]\t; EAST is one byte \"right\" (higher)\n\tAND\tBH,00010001B\t\t; and at bits 4 and 0\n\tOR\tBL,BH\n\tMOV\tBH,0\n\tMOV\tAL,BYTE PTR CS:[BX + OFFSET HPPRule]\n\tMOV\tCS:[DI],AL\n\tINC\tSI\n\tINC\tDI\n\tRET\n\n\n;----------------------------------------------------------------------\n;\n; CS:SI \t->\tSourse of Data\n; CS:DI\t\t->\tDestination of Data\n;\nScanFirstLine:\n;\n; first byte is a special case because of warparound\n;\n\tMOV\tBL,0\t\t\t\t\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI+MAXBYTE*(LINENO-1)]\t\n\tAND\tBH,10001000B\t\t; and at bits 7 and 3\n\tOR\tBL,BH\t\t\t; OR them into the assembled byte\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI+MAXBYTE]\n\tAND\tBH,01000100B\t\t; and at bits 6 and 2\n\tOR\tBL,BH\t\t\t; place the stuff into AL\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI+MAXBYTE-1]\t; WEST is one byte \"left\" (lower)\n\tAND\tBH,00100010B\t\t; and at bits 5 and 1\n\tOR\tBL,BH\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI+1]\t\t; EAST is one byte \"right\" (higher)\n\tAND\tBH,00010001B\t\t; and at bits 4 and 0\n\tOR\tBL,BH\n\tMOV\tBH,0\n\tMOV\tAL,BYTE PTR CS:[BX + OFFSET HPPRule]\n\tMOV\tCS:[DI],AL\n\tINC\tSI\n\tINC\tDI\n;\n; middle bytes can be handled in a loop \n;\n\tMOV\tCX,MAXBYTE-2\nSFL1:\n\tMOV\tBL,0\t\t\t; AL is the \"assembled\" byte.\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI+MAXBYTE*(LINENO-1)]\n\tAND\tBH,10001000B\t\t; and at bits 7 and 3\n\tOR\tBL,BH\t\t\t; OR them into the assembled byte\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI+MAXBYTE]\n\tAND\tBH,01000100B\t\t; and at bits 6 and 2\n\tOR\tBL,BH\t\t\t; place the stuff into AL\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI-1]\t\t; WEST is one byte \"left\" (lower)\n\tAND\tBH,00100010B\t\t; and at bits 5 and 1\n\tOR\tBL,BH\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI+1]\t\t; EAST is one byte \"right\" (higher)\n\tAND\tBH,00010001B\t\t; and at bits 4 and 0\n\tOR\tBL,BH\n\tMOV\tBH,0\n\tMOV\tAL,BYTE PTR CS:[BX + OFFSET HPPRule]\n\tMOV\tCS:[DI],AL\n\tINC\tSI\n\tINC\tDI\n\tLOOP\tSFL1\n;\n; last byte is also special\n;\n\tMOV\tBL,0\t\t\t; AL is the \"assembled\" byte.\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI+MAXBYTE*(LINENO-1)]\n\tAND\tBH,10001000B\t\t; and at bits 7 and 3\n\tOR\tBL,BH\t\t\t; OR them into the assembled byte\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI+MAXBYTE]\n\tAND\tBH,01000100B\t\t; and at bits 6 and 2\n\tOR\tBL,BH\t\t\t; place the stuff into AL\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI-1]\t\t; WEST is one byte \"left\" (lower)\n\tAND\tBH,00100010B\t\t; and at bits 5 and 1\n\tOR\tBL,BH\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI-(MAXBYTE-1)]\t; EAST is one byte \"right\" (higher)\n\tAND\tBH,00010001B\t\t; and at bits 4 and 0\n\tOR\tBL,BH\n\tMOV\tBH,0\n\tMOV\tAL,BYTE PTR CS:[BX + OFFSET HPPRule]\n\tMOV\tCS:[DI],AL\n\tRET\n\n\n;----------------------------------------------------------------------\n;\n; CS:SI \t->\tSourse of Data\n; CS:DI\t\t->\tDestination of Data\n;\nScanLastLine:\n;\n; first byte is a special case because of warparound\n;\n\tMOV\tBL,0\t\t\t; AL is the \"assembled\" byte.\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI-MAXBYTE]\n\tAND\tBH,10001000B\t\t; and at bits 7 and 3\n\tOR\tBL,BH\t\t\t; OR them into the assembled byte\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI-MAXBYTE*(LINENO-1)]\n\tAND\tBH,01000100B\t\t; and at bits 6 and 2\n\tOR\tBL,BH\t\t\t; place the stuff into AL\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI+(MAXBYTE-1)]\t; WEST is one byte \"left\" (lower)\n\tAND\tBH,00100010B\t\t; and at bits 5 and 1\n\tOR\tBL,BH\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI+1]\t\t; EAST is one byte \"right\" (higher)\n\tAND\tBH,00010001B\t\t; and at bits 4 and 0\n\tOR\tBL,BH\n\tMOV\tBH,0\n\tMOV\tAL,BYTE PTR CS:[BX + OFFSET HPPRule]\n\tMOV\tCS:[DI],AL\n\tINC\tSI\n\tINC\tDI\n;\n; middle bytes can be handled in a loop \n;\n\tMOV\tCX,MAXBYTE-2\nSLL1:\n\tMOV\tBL,0\t\t\t; AL is the \"assembled\" byte.\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI-MAXBYTE]\n\tAND\tBH,10001000B\t\t; and at bits 7 and 3\n\tOR\tBL,BH\t\t\t; OR them into the assembled byte\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI-MAXBYTE*(LINENO-1)]\n\tAND\tBH,01000100B\t\t; and at bits 6 and 2\n\tOR\tBL,BH\t\t\t; place the stuff into AL\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI-1]\t\t; WEST is one byte \"left\" (lower)\n\tAND\tBH,00100010B\t\t; and at bits 5 and 1\n\tOR\tBL,BH\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI+1]\t\t; EAST is one byte \"right\" (higher)\n\tAND\tBH,00010001B\t\t; and at bits 4 and 0\n\tOR\tBL,BH\n\tMOV\tBH,0\n\tMOV\tAL,BYTE PTR CS:[BX + OFFSET HPPRule]\n\tMOV\tCS:[DI],AL\n\tINC\tSI\n\tINC\tDI\n\tLOOP\tSLL1\n;\n; last byte is also special\n;\n\tMOV\tBL,0\t\t\t; AL is the \"assembled\" byte.\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI-MAXBYTE]\n\tAND\tBH,10001000B\t\t; and at bits 7 and 3\n\tOR\tBL,BH\t\t\t; OR them into the assembled byte\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI-MAXBYTE*(LINENO-1)]\n\tAND\tBH,01000100B\t\t; and at bits 6 and 2\n\tOR\tBL,BH\t\t\t; place the stuff into AL\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI-1]\t\t; WEST is one byte \"left\" (lower)\n\tAND\tBH,00100010B\t\t; and at bits 5 and 1\n\tOR\tBL,BH\n\tMOV\tBH,CS:[SI-(MAXBYTE-1)]\t; EAST is one byte \"right\" (higher)\n\tAND\tBH,00010001B\t\t; and at bits 4 and 0\n\tOR\tBL,BH\n\tMOV\tBH,0\n\tMOV\tAL,BYTE PTR CS:[BX + OFFSET HPPRule]\n\tMOV\tCS:[DI],AL\n\tINC\tSI\n\tINC\tDI\n\tRET\n\n\n\n;----------------------------------------------------------------------\n;\n; Invert all velocities in the gas\n;\nInvertAll:\n\tPUSH\tBX\n\tPUSH\tCX\n\tPUSH\tSI\n\tMOV\tSI,CS:SrcPtr\n\tMOV\tBX,0\n\tMOV\tCX,LINENO\nIA1:\n\tPUSH\tCX\n\tMOV\tCX,MAXBYTE\nIA2:\n\tMOV\tBL,CS:[SI]\n\tMOV\tAL,BYTE PTR CS:[BX + (OFFSET WallRule)]\n\tMOV\tCS:[SI],AL\n\tINC\tSI\n\tLOOP\tIA2\n\tPOP\tCX\n\tLOOP\tIA1\n\tPOP\tSI\n\tPOP\tCX\n\tPOP\tBX\n\tRET\n\n;----------------------------------------------------------------------\n; \n;\nIterateOnce:\n\tMOV\tSI,CS:SrcPtr\n\tMOV\tDI,CS:DesPtr\n\tMOV\tCS:SrcPtr,DI\n\tMOV\tCS:DesPtr,SI\n\n\tPUSH\tSI\n\tPUSH\tDI\n\tCALL\tScanFirstLine\n\tPOP\tDI\n\tPOP\tSI\n\tADD\tSI,MAXBYTE\n\tADD\tDI,MAXBYTE\t\n\tMOV\tCX,LINENO-2\t\t; dont scan first and last\nL1:\n\tPUSH\tSI\n\tPUSH\tDI\n\tPUSH\tCX\n\tCALL\tScanOneMiddleLine\n\tPOP\tCX\n\tPOP\tDI\n\tPOP\tSI\n\tADD\tSI,MAXBYTE\n\tADD\tDI,MAXBYTE\n\tLOOP\tL1\n\n\tPUSH\tSI\n\tPUSH\tDI\n\tCALL\tScanLastLine\n\tPOP\tSI\n\tPOP\tDI\nL3:\n\tRET\n\n;----------------------------------------------------------------------\n;\n; Iterate HPP rule CX times\n;\nIterate:\n\tPUSH\tCX\n\tCALL\tIterateOnce\n\tPOP\tCX\n\tCALL\tShowGas\n\tLOOP\tIterate\n\tRET\n\n;----------------------------------------------------------------------\n;\n; Iterate HPP rule CX times\n;\nIterateUntil:\t\n\tMOV\tSI,0\n\tMOV\tCX,OFFSET IU4 - OFFSET IU3\nIU00:\n\tMOV\tAL,BYTE PTR CS:[SI + OFFSET IU3]\n\tXOR\tBYTE PTR CS:[SI + OFFSET IU4],AL\n\tINC\tSI\n\tLOOP\tIU00\nIU0:\n\tCALL\tIterateOnce\n\tCALL\tShowGas\n\tMOV\tSI,CS:SrcPtr\n\tMOV\tCX,MAXBYTE*3\n\tMOV\tBX,0\n\tMOV\tAH,0\n\tMOV\tAL,255\nIU1:\n\tMOV\tBL,BYTE PTR CS:[SI]\n\tMOV\tDL,BYTE PTR CS:[BX+WallRule]\n\tNOT\tAH\n\tXOR\tDL,AH\n\tAND\tAL,DL\n\tINC\tSI\n\tLOOP\tIU1\n\tMOV\tSI,0\n\tMOV\tCX,OFFSET IU4 - OFFSET IU3\nIU2:\n\tMOV\tAH,BYTE PTR CS:[SI+OFFSET IU4]\n\tAND\tAH,AL\n\tXOR\tBYTE PTR CS:[SI+OFFSET IU3],AH\n\tINC\tSI\n\tLOOP\tIU2\n\tJMP\tIU3\nIU3:\n\tMOV\tAX,OFFSET IU0\n\tPUSH\tAX\n\tRET\n\tDB\t256 DUP(90h)\nIU4:\n\tPUSH\tAX\n\tPUSH\tBX\n\tPUSH\tCX\n\tPUSH\tDX\n\tPUSH\tDS\n\n\tMOV\tAH,9\n\tMOV\tDX,CS:MsgPtr\n\tINT\t21H\n\n\tPOP\tDS\n\tPOP\tDX\n\tPOP\tCX\n\tPOP\tBX\n\tPOP\tAX\n\tRET\n\n\tDB\t512 DUP(90h)\n\nMsgPtr\tDW\tOFFSET Msg\nMsg\tDB\t\"This message is printed out by\",10,13\n\tDB\t\"code decrypted using data from the lattice\",10,13\n\tDB\t\"which was applied to the decoding routine\",10,13\n\tDB\t\"after every time step\",10,13\n\tDB\t\"The decoding function left the code unchanged\",10,13\n\tDB\t\"except after the gas evolution had completelly\",10,13\n\tDB\t\"reversed the thermalization\",10,13,\"$\"\n\n\nTIMES\tEQU\t16\t\t; 256 repetitions are enough to\n\t\t\t\t; \"equilibrate\" the gas\n\nBegin:\n\tMOV\tAX,0600h\n\tMOV\tBH,7\n\tMOV\tDH,25\n\tMOV\tDL,80\n\tMOV\tCX,0\n\tINT\t10h\n\n\tMOV\tAH,2\n\tMOV\tBH,0\n\tMOV\tDH,24\n\tMOV\tDL,0\n\tINT\t10h\n\n\tCALL\tInitGas\n\tCALL\tShowGas\n\tMOV\tAH,0\n\tINT\t16h\n\tPUSH\tCX\n\tMOV\tCX,TIMES\n\tCALL\tIterate\n\tCALL\tInvertAll\n\tCALL\tShowGas\n\tMOV\tAH,0\n\tINT\t16h\n\tCMP\tAL,\"0\"\n\tJNE\tBegin0\n\tMOV\tSI,CS:SrcPtr\n\tXOR\tBYTE PTR CS:[SI],10000001B\nBegin0:\n\tMOV\tCX,TIMES\n\tCALL\tIterateUntil\n\tCALL\tInvertAll\n\tCALL\tShowGas\n\tMOV\tAX,4C00h\n\tINT\t21h\n\t", "\nOddly enough, you don't, at least according to the wiring FAQ that\nis regularly posted on misc.consumers.house.\n\nA GFCI senses discrepancies between the live and neutral wire currents,\nand cuts them both off if a discrepancy is found. No ground connection\nis needed for it to function.\n\n\n", "I was wrong! I guess they are closer to $800 new! I will\nprobably still sell them for the above implied $300 obo.\nEmail me if you want more specifics. This is a really \nattractive set of books, kind of a Bible encyclopedia set.\nAlso email me if you know more about these books or post\nthe information here.\n", "Is there an \"official extension\" to X which allows the use of audio? Most\nof the X audio programs use system-specific ways to access the audio\ncapabilities of the computer they run on. Is there a hardware-independent\nway to do this (like the video extension XV)? Thanks for any help.", "I posted this to the apps group and didn't get any response, so\nI'll try here. I am trying to use the latex help feature\navailable in emacs for windows and read that you need a separate\nlatexhlp.zip file along with a vms2hlp.zip file to convert this\nto windows help. Has anyone found these files or gotten this\ncommand help to work?", "\n ]In article ,\n\n\n >>Is it a hidden option? I'm using PowerStrip 2.0 (by Mr. Caputo) right now\n >>and can't find any quick discharge option. It definitely is on\n >>mac.archive.umich.edu 'cause I submitted it! \n\n My apologies! I goofed. The \"quick discharge\" option is part of the\nConnectix PowerBook Utilities package (CPU). I installed it the same\nday as PowerStrip, and didn't pay enough attention. ;) Anyway, the\noption does exist for those of you who buy CPU. \n\n\n---------------\n\"Whadda goofball!\"\n\"Sheddap. You're not even the real signature file.\"\n---------------\n\n-- \n-----------------------------------------------------------------\nKenneth Simon Dept of Sociology, Indiana University\nInternet: KSSIMON@INDIANA.EDU Bitnet: KSSIMON@IUBACS ", "Has anyone heard of a SCSI device that can capture video? \n\nWe need some sort of device that can capture about 10 frames or so per\nsecond, and work off the SCSI bus. The idea is to use it for some sort of\nvideo\nconferencing application.", "There are chips which perform the voice compression/expansion. They can't\nbe expensive, because they exist in many phones connected to PBXs or on the\nPBX line cards, as well as in a lot of equipment which compresses\nvoice-grade circuits to save the cost of long-distance, leased T1s or\nsatellite circuits.\n\nI can't remember the generic term for these chips. My impression is that\nthis was a big deal 10 years ago, but circuits have gotten so cheap that\nit isn't done much now.\n\nLew\n", "What is the actual clock speed of a Centris 610?\n20 MHZ or 25 MHZ\n\nThanks in advance...\n\n\n", "\n\nYes, but still not a 6502 for those differences. Same instruction set,\nof course.\n\n\n\nYes, the same number, but an entirely different device. I should have\nqualified this further by stating that this was the PAL version of the TIA -\nI am not 100% sure that the NTSC TIA would have a different number.\n\n\nDoes anyone on the net actually have details of the TIA, as this is the only\ndevice I have not yet discovered details about? Atari Australia, when asked,\nclaimed that their attempts to get the programmers documentation for the 2600\nhad failed, as the US head office had refused to provide it.\n\n\nI saw a couple of cheaper devices with PN2222's and a couple of resistors\nhooked up as a cheap inverter. Nasty, but workable, and cheaper than a\n7404 inverter if labor costs almost nothing.", "Hi, I am using a dtk 386-20Mhz 13Meg memory to run a variety of\nprograms, and have had problems off and on with lock up,\nbut now I am trying to run an application that wants a lot of memory\nover a period of time (Playmation 24 bit rendered) and it is \nlocking up Everytime. I have an ATI ultra + w/2Meg which I have\ntried in each of the video modes, I have excluded the region of\nvideo memory from A000-C800 segments from the use of emm386,\nhave tried adjusting the swap partion from large to nonexistant (to\nprevent swapping) and I have REM'd ALL TSR's and utilities in config.syus\nand autoexec, and even tried using the default program manager, disabling\nmy HP dashboard. even with a minimal system, no swap, no smartdrv,\nno TSR's, no windows utilities and exclusion of video regions it still\nlocks up completely (no mouse control, no response to anything except\n3finger salute, and even that does not stop by the standard windows\nscreen, but simply does a full reset immediately). Just about out\nof ideas, anyone out there have any???? Thanks\ntom branham\nbranham@binah.cc.brandeis.edu\n", "RFD\n Request For Discussion\n for the\n OPEN TELEMATIC GROUP\n\n OTG\n\nI have proposed the forming of a consortium/task force for the\npromotion of NAPLPS/JPEG, FIF to openly discuss ways, method,\nprocedures,algorythms, applications, implementation, extensions of\nNAPLPS/JPEG standards. These standards should facilitate the creation\nof REAL_TIME Online applications that make use of Voice, Video,\nTelecommuting, HiRes graphics, Conferencing, Distant Learning, Online\norder entry, Fax,in addition these dicussion would assist all to\nbetter understand how SGML, CALS, ODA, MIME, OODBMS, JPEG, MPEG,\nFRACTALS, SQL, CDrom, cdromXA, Kodak PhotoCD, TCL, V.FAST, and\nEIA/TIA562, can best be incorporated and implemented to develop\nTELEMATIC/Multimedia applications.\n\nWe want to be able to support DOS, UNIX, MAC, WINDOWS, NT, OS/2\nplatforms. It is our hope that individuals, developers, corporations,\nUniversities, R & D labs would join in in supporting such an endeavor.\n\nThis would be a NOT_FOR_PROFIT group with bylaws and charter. Already\nmany corporations have decided to support OTG (Open TELEMATIC Group) so\ndo not delay joining if you are a developer\n\nAn RFD has been posted to form a usenet newsgroup and a FAQ will soon\nbe be composed to start promulgating what is known on the subject. If\nyou would like to be added to the maillist send email or mail to the\naddress below.\n\nThis group would publish an electronic quarterly NAPLPS/JPEG\nnewsletter as well as a hardcopy version. We urge all who wants to\nsee CMCs HiRes based applications & the NAPLPS/JPEG G R O W, decide to\njoin and mutually benefit from this NOT-FOR_PROFIT endeavor.\n\nNOTE: Telematic has been defined by Mr. James Martin as the marriage\n of Voice, Video, Hi-res Graphics, Fax, IVR, Music over telephone\n lines/LAN.\n\nIf you would like to get involve write to me at:\n\n IMG Inter-Multimedia Group| Internet: epimntl@world.std.com\n P.O. Box 95901 | ed.pimentel@gisatl.fidonet.org\n Atlanta, Georgia, US | CIS : 70611,3703\n | FidoNet : 1:133/407\n | BBS : +1-404-985-1198 zyxel 14.4k", "Gosh, I wish people would read the postings that they are 'following up' to.\n\n\nThe original poster (W G Wright) posted an item saying that he had bought a new\nwizz-bang Laser Printer from Apple (a Select 300 I think) which can print\nGrayScale. He then said that he CANNOT PRINT GRAYSCALE from his SE computer\n(and also that all the 'experts' he has dealt with agree that it is not\npossible).\n\nThis is the one major bugbear about doing a 3rd party SE upgrade (compared to\nApple's SE to SE/30 upgrade): you will never be able to run Color Quickdraw. It\nis Color Quickdraw that controls Color AND Grayscale.\n\nSEs CAN print some COLOUR: this is because Quickdraw - the original, non-colour\nversion, has the right hooks for eight colours. Some of you will remember the\n'SCSIgraph' solution to getting a colour screen for your SE (I think that it\ngave you sixteen colours by dithering or something).\n\nThere is no reason that Apple couldn't release software patches for older\ncomputers (there are lots of Mac Pluses, Classics and SEs that have been\nupgraded to 68020 and 68030 processors which should be perfectly able to deal\nwith Color Quickdraw) - but they wont, and 3rd parties are having a difficult \ntime in duplicating the Mac's ROMs (i.e. Nutek et al.).\n\nJust one Caveat: I would have thought that if you were printing a POSTSCRIPT\nGrayscale image onto a POSTSCRIPT Grayscale printer, that you would be able to\ndo so, whatever Mac you were using. (And I am pretty sure that the Select 300\nis NOT a POSTSCRIPT printer [? correct me if I'm wrong?]).", "\nI have used both version 1.17 drivers for Win 3.1 and the new 2.03 drivers.\nI have had none of these problems. No GPF's at all. I have a feeling that\nyour problems are not with the card or drivers. The ATI Ultra drivers are\nconsidered some of the most reliable on the market, and the SS 24X ones \nseem quite good as well. Maybe you should check BIOS problems in your\nGateway. I know a few people with Gateway DX2's, and all of them have\nfound some problem or other with compatibility -- especially with graphics.\n\nThe only GPF's I have ever had can be directly attributable to using/\nabusing applications. I even got the newest drivers from Diamond when \npeople started complaining. I still only have one small problem with\nthem, and it is that the hardware cursor is slightly jumpy during writes/\nreads to the swap file. ", "Greetings,\n\nMy question is whether the upcoming release of X11R6 will provide\n(strong) authentication between the X clients and server(s). If so,\nwill this feature be based on the Kerberos authentication mechanism\n(and, if so, will Kerberos Version 5 be used)? Please reply via email.\n\nThanks,\n\n--Andre\n-- \nAndre S. Cosma | RRC 1N-215 | Bellcore - Security and\nandre@bae.bellcore.com | 444 Hoes Lane | Data Services\n(908) 699-8441 | Piscataway, NJ 08854|", "The subject does not describe the problem I am having very well. Please read\non...\n\nI am trying to write a function which creates an XtAppContext and a Widget,\ndisplays the widget for a while, then destroys everything and returns. The\nproblem is that multiple calls to this function cause a variety of problems\nincluding (depending on which calls I make to get rid of things):\n\n- Core Dump\n- BadPixmap X Error\n- Widget not unmapped\n\n\nHere is a simple (C++) program I wrote to show the problem:\n\n#include \n#include \n#include \n\nvoid bla()\n{\n XtAppContext app;\n Display *dis = XOpenDisplay(\"\");\n int junk = 0;\n\n Widget top=XtAppInitialize (&app, \"test\", NULL, 0, &junk, NULL,\n NULL, NULL, 0);\n\n Widget box = XtVaCreateManagedWidget(\"blaaa\", xmPushButtonWidgetClass,\n top,\n XmNheight, 50,\n XmNwidth, 50,\n NULL);\n\n XtRealizeWidget(top);\n //Same as XtAppMainLoop but with only 10 XEvents\n for (int i=0;i<=10;i++)\n {\n XEvent event;\n XtAppNextEvent(app, &event);\n XtDispatchEvent(&event);\n }\n\n// WHAT SHOULD I PUT HERE???\n XtUnrealizeWidget(top);\n XtDestroyWidget(top);\n XtDestroyApplicationContext(app);\n XCloseDisplay(dis);\n// ???\n}\n\nmain()\n{\n for (int i=0;i<=20;i++)\n bla();\n}\n\nNote that I rewrote XtAppMainLoop so that at a given time (in this example,\nafter 10 XEvents) the function will exit and return to the main program.\nWith this example, I get the following error on about (this is NOT consistent)\nthe 5th call to bla():\n\nX Error of failed request: BadPixmap (invalid Pixmap parameter)\n Major opcode of failed request: 55 (X_CreateGC)\n Resource id in failed request: 0xe0000d\n Serial number of failed request: 71\n Current serial number in output stream: 86\n\nIf I take out the XtUnrealizeWidget(top); line, it just dumps core on the\nseconds call.\n\nFurthermore, every time I call XtAppInitialize() (other than the 1st time), I\nget:\n\nWarning: Initializing Resource Lists twice\nWarning: Initializing Translation manager twice.\n\n\nSo finally, my question is this:\n\nWhat needs to be done in order to be able to call a function which creates\nan XtAppContext and widgets multiple times?\n\nAny help would be greatly appreciated.\n\nPLEASE respond via email as I dont usually have time to read this group.\n\nThanks very much.\n\n-davewood\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDavid Rex Wood -- davewood@cs.colorado.edu -- University of Colorado at Boulder", "\n\n\n\nI didn't say the program is DISABLED, did I? (I HATE!!!! it when people\ntake my words out of context...) I mean that once you have installed it,\nyou cannot DEinstall it without registering it, or transfer it to another\nmachine, or SOME SORT OF LIMITATION (the author will decide), WHICH WILL\nBE REMOVED WHEN THE PROGRAM IS REGISTERED. ", "\nOr, if you've got some entreprenuerial (sp?) spirit, get a cheapy\nclear plastic box, mount the simm inside, and sell it as a 'Pet SIMM'!\n\nI'm sure there are *plenty* of suckers out there who would go\nfor it!", "IBM 3510-001 cd-rom drive 350ms. drive only make offer or trade.\n \n", "I have been looking around some Ftp sites and cannot find one with any good\nGIF files. Could someone please tell me of some Ftp sites which do posses\ngoods GIFS and a wide range.\n\nPlease EMAIL me at the address above.\n\nThanks", "I plan to post a summary of responses to this as soon as I have working\ncode, which I will also include. The intersection of 3 planes method\nlooks best, but my implementation based on a short article in \nGraphics Gems I doesn't work. I may be misinterpreting, of course.\n\nI had avoided the simultaneous solution of the plane equations in favor\nof dot and cross products, but the former may actually be better. In either\ncase a matrix determinant needs to be computed (implicitly in the solution\nof linear equations).\n\nTo get the planes, I was taking the midpoint of the line from, say,\nP1 to P2, and setting the normal as the \"normalized\" vector from P1 to P2.\nThese just plugged into the formula in Graphics Gems. HOwever, the resulting\ncenter point is only occasionally equidistant from all 4 of my test points\n(for different tests). My matrix/vector math is very rusty, but it looks like\nI need to verify the formula, or use the simultaneous equation solution, which\nwill require bringing in another routine I don't have (but should be easy to\nfind).\n\nAnother method is to first find the center of the circle defined by 2 sets\nof 3 points, and intersecting the normals from there. This would also define\nthe circle center. However, small numerical imprecisions would make the\nlines not intersect. Supposedly 3 planes HAVE to intersect in a unique\npoint if they are not parallel.\n\nEd\n\nThanks to all who answered so far.", "\nRecommended for what, DOS? That is a junk.\n\n\n\tLinux + gcc. Fire up gcc to compile libc and kernel at the\n\tsame time running X11R5.\n\n\n\tBad memory, bad motherboard, bad cache.\n\n\n\tchange wait state of RAM.\n\tturn off turbo.\n\tchange bus speed\n\tswap RAM.\n", "\nActually, it's a bit more complicated than that...I sounds to me,\nyour UPS takes in AC, rectifies it to DC to charge the batteries, and\nthen takes the battery DC and chops it to AC again, feeding your\nequipment. This approach is the easiest and cleanest way to\nswitchover from the mains to battery once your power kicks out since,\nas you mentioned, nothing will know about what happened down the line.\n\nAnother way to do the UPS scheme is to use the mains until you\nlose power, and then kick in the battery backup with it's inverter to\nreplace the lost power. The problem here is the switchover time and\nyou've got to resync the AC in no time flat.\n\nUnfortunately, most everything is built around the assumption that\nAC is available, so the UPS guys have to provide and AC output to\nbe usable...ya sorta have to make it work with what there already.\n\nSimilar story with our telephone system. It was first invented back\nin the 1800's. We're still using the same damn system (media) as they\ndid back then. If I have a phone from back then, I can assure you\nit'll work on today's phone system. It costs too much to overhaul\neveryone to a new system, so they make it work with what is out there.", "This is the final public update to my dragon magazine auction. If there\nare no new bids then the current bids stand (like that's gonna happen. :) ).\nAfter this, any updates will be by E-mail *ONLY*. The entire auction \nwill end as soon as the bids stop coming in. So if you want to get in\non this, be sure to bid now. All bids must be made in *AT LEAST*\n25 cent increments. Buyer will pay shipping. (Unless you have any\nparticular fancy, it will be US mail 4th class special, with lots of\npadding). \nAll dragons are bagged. The condition of them vary quite a bit, \nso I've come up with my own condition system. Some dragons may be missing \nitems like the inserts. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.\n*\nCondition ratings - Usually this is just an evaluation of the cover, as\nmost of the material inside is in great shape.\nExcellent - IE-\"As you find them in the store\"\nVery Good - Still in great condition, but can tell it's been boughten\nGood - On down the line\nVery Fair/fair - indicates lots of use (But still \"decent\")\nPoor - Indicates the material inside may be damaged (usually by\nscissors). \nA * by the condition indicates that something from the magazine is \nmissing (usually the insert)\nI'll post another public update sometime this weekend (which will be the\nfinal public posting, after which the auction will be by e-mail until\nthe bidding stops)\n*\nAgain if you have any questions, ask away.\n*\narrow $2.50 056 - Fair *- Top secret module missing - Bard tunes - \nreal maps\nTN.DE7 $3.0 073 - Good - Forest of Doom module (detached but \nincluded) - inner planes\nykchev $1.75 074 - Good *- Combat computer missing - 4 dragons \nTN.DE7 $1.50 078 - Good/VG - Monsters - aquatic AD&D module (detached \nbut included) - Language lesson\ngeoffrey $1.50 079 - Good/VG - top secret module (detached but \nincluded) - magic resistance\nmayla $2.50 081 - Fair - High level AD&D module (detached but \nincluded) - poison - material spell components\nUCCXKVB $2.00 082 - Very Fair*- Baton races game insert missing - spell \nresearch\nTN.DE7 $1.50 083 - Good/VG - Babba Yagga's Hut module (detached but \nincluded) - unarmed combat\ngeoffrey $1.50 084 - Fair *- Cover missing - Twofold talisman module\nsquidly $1.75 085 - Good - Twofold Talisman module - Clerics\nsquidly $1.75 087 - Good - Top secret module - Wildernes\ngeoffrey $1.50 088 - Good *- Elefant Hunt insert missing - Falling \ndamage - MARVEL-Phile\ngeoffrey $1.50 089 - Good *- Creature catalog missing - Shields - sci fi\nTN.DE7 $1.5 094 - Good - Ranger changes - Creature catalog II \n(detached but included)\ngeoffrey $1.50 095 - Fair *- Cover missing - Into the Forgotten Realms \nmodule, detached but included\nykcheu $2.75 098 - Fair - 9th anniversary - Dragons - mutant manual\nUCCXKVB $1.75 099 - Poor *- Cover Missing - Treasure trove II, some \npictures cut out\nthedm $2.50 100 - Good *- poster missing - city beyond the gate \nmodule (detached but included) - \"raised dragon\" texture on cover\ngeoffrey $1.50 101 - Fair *- Cover missing - creature catalog III \n(detached but included)\ngeoffrey $1.50 102 - Fair *- Cover missing - Valley of earth mother \nmiddle level module (detached but included)\ngeoffrey $1.50 103 - Fair *- Cover loosly attached - Unearth arcana \nupdate missing - Future of AD&D - Centaur papers\ngeoffrey $1.50 103 - Fair *- Unearth arcana update missing \ngeoffrey $1.50 104 - Fair/VF - Marvel module - thieves - cover detached \nbut included \ngeoffrey $1.50 105 - Fair - AD&D module - invisibility - cover & back \ncover detached but included \nUCCXKVB $2.00 106 - Fair - Cover 1/2 on - variations of paladins - \nmore skills 4 rangers\nykcheu $2.75 106 - Good/VG - Variations of paladins - more skills for \nrangers \narrow $2.50 107 - Fair *- Cover missing - Dragons of glory \nsupplement/questionaire\ngeoffrey $1.50 108 - Good - Mutant manual II - environmental \neffects - cover taped reinforced\nthedm $2.00 108 - Very Good - Mutant manual II - environmental effects \nykcheu $2.25 109 - Good - Customizing D&D classes - Agent 13 poster\ngeoffrey $1.50 109 - Very Fair - Customizing D&D classes - Agent 13 poster \nmissing\ngeoffrey $1.50 110 - Very Good - House on the frozen lands module -10th anniv\nsquidly $1.75 110 - Very Good - House on the frozen lands module -10th anniv\ngeoffrey $1.50 111 - Good - Murder Mystery AD&D module\nykcheu $2.50 112 - Very Good - Ultimate Article Index - Mesozoic monsters\nmayla $2.50 114 - Very Fair - Elven Cavalier - remorhaz - Witch NPC class\nykcheu $1.75 115 - Good - Theives - harpies & snakes\nsquidly $1.75 116 - Good/VG - 3-D ship cardboard insert - wild \nanimals - dr who\nUCCXKVB $2.50 117 - Good/VG - Dice odds - creative campaigns - sage \nadvice - bazaar\ngeoffrey $1.50 118 - Good - Tournaments/Competitions - Nibar's keep game\nUCCXKVB $2.00 120 - VG/EX - April fool's issue\nUCCXKVB $2.00 121 - Excellent - Oriental adventures - cardboard castle \ninsert\ngeoffrey $1.50 122 - Excellent - 11th aniversary - African beasts - druids\nUCCXKVB $2.50 123 - Very Good - Magic and wizardry\nthedm $2.25 123 - Very Good - Magic and wizardry\narrow $2.5 124 - Excellent - Aerial adventures - 2nd edition ?aire\nUCCXKVB $2.25 124 - Excellent - Aerial adventures - 2nd edition ?aire\ngeoffrey $1.50 125 - Very Good - Clay-O-Rama! - Chivalry - quasi elementals\ngeoffrey $1.50 125 - VG/EX - Clay-O-Rama! - Chivalry - Quasi-elementals\nUCCXKVB $2.50 126 - VG/EX - Undead\nUCCXKVB $2.00 127 - Very Good - Fighters\n2FVPMANTEL $3.00 128 - Good - King's Table insert game\n2FVPMANTEL $3.00 129 - Excellent - Demi-humans\nUCCXKVB $2.50 130 - VG/EX - The arcane arts\nTFPAYN01 $2.50 131 - Excellent - Deepearth\narrow $1.5 131 - VG/EX - Deepearth\nUCCXKVB $2.0 132 - Very Good - ORCWARS! board game missing\narrow $1.5 133 - Very Good - Berserkers & Spies-Roman gods -marvel index\ngeoffrey $1.50 133 - Very Good - Berserkers & Spies-Roman gods -marvel index\n2FVPMANTEL $3.00 134 - VG/EX - 12 anniversary - Dragons \ntbh1 $2 135 - Very Good - Archers - Space sage advice\nUCCXKVB $2.0 135 - Very Good - Archers - Space Sage advice\ntbh1 $4.0 136 - Very Good - Cities & Urban adventures\ntbh1 $3 137 - Excellent - Wilderness\narrow $1.5 138 - Very Good - Horror (Haloween)\nUCCXKVB $3.25 139 - Very Good - Pages from the Mages\nUCCXKVB $3.5 140 - Excellent - Clerics & Healers\ntbh1 $3 141 - Good - Humanoids\ntbh1 $2 142 - Very Good - AD&D 2nd edition preview\nUCCXKVB $3.25 143 - Very Good - DM's issue\nUCCXKVB $2.00 145 - Very Good*- Poster missing - castles\nthedm $2.5 146 - Very Good*- Poster missing - 13 anninversary - Dragons\ntbh1 $3.00 147 - Excellent - MAGUS! board game - magic\ntbh1 $3.5 148 - Excellent - Fighting - Deck of Many things insert\nTN.DE7 $2.0 149 - Excellent - (No particular feature)\nTN.DE7 $2.00 150 - Excellent - Horror (Halloween issue)\nTN.DE7 $2.00 151 - Excellent - Oriental Adventures/Eastern \nTN.DE7 $2.00 152 - Good *- Underdark - Poster missing is inside-\nslight crumple on cover, only noticable under inspection\nTN.DE7 $2.0 153 - Very Good - Gods\nTN.DE7 $1.75 154 - Good/VG - Poster - Dragonlance story - War\nTN.DE7 $2.00 155 - Excellent - Faeries - DUNGEON module\nTN.DE7 $1.75 157 - Very Good - Buck Rogers\nthedm $2.00 158 - Very Good - 14th anniversary - Dragons\nUCCXKVB $2.00 159 - Excellent - Spelljammer - Poster missing\nkohlmaas $2.00 160 - Good/VG *- Urban adventures - AD&D trading card \ninsert missing\nUCCXKVB $2.25 161 - Very Good - DM issue\nTN.DE7 $1.75 162 - Good - Haloween - Poster missing\nthedm $2.0 163 - Excellent - Monsterous compendum insert - Magic\nTN.DE7 $2.0 164 - Very Good - Oriental Adventures\nTN.DE7 $1.75 165 - VG/EX - Sea/Undersea\nTN.DE7 $1.75 166 - Excellent*- Sci Fi (other games) - Dino wars insert \nmissing\nTN.DE7 $1.75 167 - Excellent - Nature/Wilderness\nUCCXKVB $2.5 169 - Very Good - Slight crease of back cover - Misc \nitems featured\nthedm $2.5 170 - Good - Slight crease in cover - Dragon kings game \ninsert - Dragons - 15th anniversary issue\nUCCXKVB $2.00 171 - Excellent*- Missing poster & trading cards (ARGH!)\nCfrye $2.75 172 - Excellent - Underdark\nhachiman $2 173 - Excellent - Dark Sun\nintravai $2 174 - Excellent - Horror\nintravai $3.00 175 - Excellent - World building - Campaign help\nTN.DE7 $2.00 176 - Excellent - Elves - Giant poster inside\nTN.DE7 $1.5 177 - Very Good - Calender poster - DM help (gunpowder too)\nintravai $3.0 178 - Excellent - Fighters & the Fighter class\nTN.DE7 $2.50 179 - Excellent - GENCON form - Magic items featured\nTN.DE7 $2.50 181 - Excellent - Calendar Poster - Mages/Sorcerors\nTN.DE7 $2.50 182 - Excellent - 16 anniversary issue - Dragons\nTN.DE7 $2.50 184 - Excellent - Non Player Character enhancement\nTN.DE7 $1.75 185 - Excellent - Dark Sun Campaign Monsters - Dark Sun\ngeoffrey $1.50 186 - Excellent - Haloween - Horror\nTN.DE7 $1.75 187 - Excellent - Wilderness - Outdoors", "i don't have FTP and i live in canada ( this means that it would be \nilleagle for a U.S. citizen to send the program to me. their gigerment \nwishes to restrict its dispersil ) but someone in europe must have ported \na coppy of RSA to the atariST by now. how do i get a coppy of the RSA \nfrom a non-FTP news feed?\n\n", "\nYou could, but it would be considerably cheaper to spend $8 or so on\na trickle charger from K-Mart, Venture, or Target, then it would be\nto replace the halogen lamp power supply after you fuse it trying to\npump current into the battery...\n\nWhile charging, the charger should be putting out around 14 or 15 volts\nas well...", "********************[ PC Game For Sale ]******************\n\nWaxworks by Horrorsoft/Accolade (5.25\")\t\t $30\n\nBy the same folks who brought you Elvira I & II. I played\nElvira I & II, and think that Horrorsoft has finally made\na very playable game with Waxworks. The look and feel is\nroughly the same as in the Elvira games, though the real time\nfighting is a little easier to survive. The first two games,\nespecially Elvira II: Jaws of Cerberus made it very tough to\nstay alive and hit-point restoring was very difficult. This \nis not to say that Waxworks is a walk in the park, but it is\nquite fair, in that there is always some weapon to be found\nthat is quite effective, or hint given as to the proper fighting\nstrategy. In one of the four wax works to be explored, there is \nno fighting at all (well almost none), though all four contain\nmoderately challanging puzzles.\n\nThe really interesting thing about this game is that it is really \nbroken up into four seperate RPGs, one for each of the four exhibits\nyou must enter. In starting each one, your character is transported\nwith no objects to use, and experience level 1. One exhibits traps\nyou inside a multi-level ancient Egyptian pyramid which you must \nescape by fighting, mapping and puzzle solving. Another exhibit\ntraps you in a mine that has been taken over by creeping plant vines\nand pods, while the local humans have been transformed into plant\nzombies. This is a single level maze that requires you to rescue\nsome humans, kill the head plant alien, and figuere out how to kill\nthe very tuff plant zombies that are always showing up. This is\nperhaps the most horrifying exhibit. Another exhibit puts you into\nJack The Ripper England where you appear by the corpse of a fresh Ripper\nvictim, and of course the police think you are responsible. You must\navoid police and angry mobs to unravel the mystery of The Ripper and \nmeet him face to face - but first get a disquise. The last exhibit\npus you in a graveyard where most of the challenge is in learning to \nstop the almost indestructible zombies. \n\nOver all the VGA graphics and music are very effective in setting a \ncreepy tone for the game, as was the case for the Elvira games, though\ngameplay is much improved and makes for a much more enjoyable game.\nI heartily recommend it for RPG and Horror fans. \n\n*********************************************************\n\n- All prices include shipping.\n- All games are in excellent condition unless otherwise stated.\n- US buyers only please.\n- All games will be shipped inside a box with packing, insured,\n priority USPS.\n- All games include all original materials including box, manual,\n disks, and registration unless otherwise noted.\n\nThe first responder offering asking price is guarenteed to\nget the game. Those just asking questions get no priority until\nthey offer to buy the game. Lower offers may be considered\nassuming no other offers at asking price are made.\n\n**********************************************************\n\n\n\n\n", "FOR SALE: ****************************************************************\n\n386-40 with VGA Color Monitor, dual floppy, VGA card with 1MB on board, joystick,\nmouse, 2 MB RAM, no hard drive.\n\n\nFOR ONLY $500! Respond quickly!\n\n\n\n", "Has anyone ever hooked a Hayes 2400 Macintosh modem up\nto the serial port on a PC? What are the pin outs\nto do this? I have a mac printer cable to hook a DB 25\nto the Mac serial port. Can I hook the two Mini-8 ports\ntogether? Do I have to swap pins?\n\nThanx in advance.", "\n\nI've had a couple of e-mail responses from people who seem to believe that\nthis sort of thing is not only unsupported, it is downright dangerous.\n\nI have heard of no such warnings from anybody at Apple. Just to be sure, I\nasked a couple of our technicians, one of whom has been servicing Macs for\nyears. There is *no* danger of damaging logic boards by plugging and unplugging\nADB devices with the power on.\n\nSCSI, yes, ADB, no...", "I am looking for some information of hidden line removal using Roberts\nalgorithm. Something with code, or pseudo code would be especially\nhelpful.\n\nI am required to do this for a class, due Monday (we have very little\ntime to implement these changes, it is a VERY FAST paced class). The\nnotes given in class leave a LOT to be desired, so I would vastly\nappreciate any help.\n\nActually any algorithm would be nice (Roberts or no). The main problem\nis two objects intersecting in x and y dimensions, need to know which\nlines to clip off so that one object will appear in front of another.\n\nIf you can give me an ftp address and filename, or even the name of a\ngood book, I'd REALLY appreciate it.", "Hello Netlanders:\n\n I am a novice X user with a question for any Xgod.\n\n My computer configuration with the X problem is as follows:\n\n 486DX50/256/16RAM running Esix 4.0.4 \n Wangtek AT-style interface 250 M tape drive.\n I have loaded the Basic OS (which includes nsu) and\n inet utilities (tcp/ip).\n I ftp-ed the XFree86 (X11R5) binaries and installed properly.\n \n I can execute startx and run X-windows with no problems.\n However, if I try to access the tape drive while in X, the\n machine locks up instantly. If I am out of X and access the\n tape, the tape drive works fine. Soon as I try to\n startx again; the screen changes modes, but, the grey background\n pattern does not come up and no xterm is forked. I have to login\n from another terminal and execute a shutdown to reset the system.\n\n I've contacted Esix about this problem. They claim THEIR X-window X11R4\n server (which I have) works with the Wangtek tape drive. They also \n claim I only need the nsu (network system utilities) to run X; I don't\n need inet (tcp/ip). My experience has been that I need BOTH to get\n XFree86 to work. I'm not too concerned about having to load both nsu and inet\n packages to get X to work unless the inet package is causing my problem.\n\n I would like to get both X and my tape drive to co-exist on the same\n system. If you can shed any light on the problem, it would be appreciated.\n \n One colleague implied this might be a hardware conflict. If this is true,\n what direction should I look to resolve the conflict ?\n\n Thanks,", "Hi there,\nCan anyone tell me where it is possible to purchase controls found\non most arcade style games. Many projects I am working on would\nbe greatly augmented if I could implement them. Thanx in advance.", "Does anyone know where I can get some voice synthesis chips??\nI am looking for something like the ones that do the time and date\nstamp on answering machines.\n", "I am having trouble viewing GIF files on my system. Large sections\ndon't show up. I have tried VPIC and PICEM - both do the same. I am\nrunning a Gateway 486/33C with a Speedstar Plus VGA card and an\nNEC Multisync 4Ds 16 inch monitor. Any suggestions? I don't know if \nRobert Woodward\nDepartment of Physiology, University of Missouri, Columbia, MO 65212\ne-mail: c557652@mizzou1.missouri.edu\n", "Hmmmm I noticed sometime ago that I could do the same on my Virago, and\nsince I don't read many schematics, I didn't really think aobut it too\nmuch. Yes it does provide excellent coverage, but I figured it would\nprobably draw a little too much current. I also figured that it was \noverlapped just to prevent a blank spot of no headlight. Are you saying \nthat these switches are designed for the hi/lo combination?\n\n\n ------------------------------------------------------------------------", "I was reading a review of the Centris 610 in this \nmonths MacWorld and the reviewer said that for \n$4 you could make an adjustment on the clock speed\nof the chip and change it from 20mhz to 25mhz. I \nhaven't heard of this before, and I don't think that\nthis is the 040 chip replacement (with fpu) that I have\nseen so much talk about. Anyone have any ideas?\ncwera@du.edu\n\n\n \n", "\n\nTake a lemon. Stick a copper strip into the lemon. Stick a galvanized\nnail in about 1 to 1-1/2 inches from the copper strip. You should get\nabout 1/2 volt from it - enough to light an LED.\n\n\n * SLMR 2.1 * Support your medical examiner, die strangely.\n ", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nI've been told by our local computer guru that you can't do this unless you \nperform a low level format on your existing hard drive and set your system \nup for two hard drives from the beginning. I took him at his word, and I \nhave not tried to find out any more about it, because I'm not going to back \neverything up just to add another HDD. If anyone knows for sure what the \nscoop is, I would like to know also. Thanks in advance also.", "\nI have also been trying to complete my collection. I have an extra CCI # 16\n(Communications) and a # 12 (Applications in the Arts), both in mint\ncondition.\n\nI would like to trade for (or buy) the following: # 1, 3, 22, 23, 25, 26, 30,\nand 31.\n\nThanks -David", "There is a new version of the RTrace ray-tracing package (8.2.0) at\nasterix.inescn.pt [192.35.246.17] in directory pub/RTrace.\nCheck the README file.\n\nRTrace now can use the SUIT toolkit to have a nice user interface.\nCompile it with -DSUIT or modify the Makefile.\nSUIT is available at suit@uvacs.cs.virginia.edu\nI have binaries of RTrace with SUIT for SUN Sparc, SGI Indigo\nand DOS/GO32.\nPlease contact me if interested.\n\n****************************************\n\nThe MAC RTrace 1.0 port is in directory pub/RTrace/Macintosh\nThanks to Reid Judd (reid.judd@east.sun.com) and\nGreg Ferrar (gregt@function.mps.ohio-state.edu).\n\n****************************************\n\nSmall changes were done since version 8.1.0, mainly:\n\n1. Now it is possible to discard backface polygons and triangles\n for fast preview...\n\n2. The support program scn2sff has been reworked to use temp files.\n\n****************************************\n\nHere goes a short description of current converters from\nCAD/molecular/chemistry packages to the SCN format.\n\nThe package programs are related as below (those marked with * have been\nmodified)\n\n\t irit2scn\n IRIT ----------------|\n | NFF (nffclean, nffp2pp)\n\t sol2scn | |\n ACAD11 ---------------| | nff2sff\n | |\n\t mol2scn\t v scn2sff* v\trtrace*\n ALCHEMY -----------> SCN -----------> SFF ----------> PIC or PPM\n\t\t\t ^ cpp |\n\t pdb2scn | picmix\n PDB -----------------| picblend\n\t\t\t | ppmmix*\n\t chem2scn | ppmblend*\n CHEMICAL --------------|\n |\n 3ds2scn* |\n 3D STUDIO --------------|\n |\n iv2scn* |\n IRIS Inventor -----------|\n\n****************************************\n\nThe DOS port of RTrace is in pub/RTrace/PC-386 (rtrac820.arj,\nutils820.arj and image820.arj). See the README file there.\nRequires DJGPP GO32 DOS extender (version 1.09 included), which can be\nfound in directory pub/PC/djgpp (and in many sites around netland).\nThere are also demo scenes, manuals and all the source code...\n\n****************************************\n\nPlease feel free to get it and use it.\nHope you like it.", "\nI assumed he was referring to OS/2's 32-bit flat model addressing while DOS\n(and therefore Windows) use 20-bit segmented addressing. As a programmer, I\nagree that segmentation unnecessarily complicates things. It's annoying, too.\nBut when just a Windows user, I don't think about it much. And, I doubt many\nother people think about it (or even care) when just writing a document,\ncalcing a spreadsheet, etc...It works and they get their work done.\n\nJust a neutral comment:\nIt's funny, I think, how arguments about Windows vs OS/2 sound so very\nsimilar to arguments about Atheism vs Christianity or something like that.\nIt's somehow very personal to people. Convictions are irrational and\nthere's nothing wrong with that--it's just...interesting.", ": \n: >What kind of power must he be putting out to cause the effects?\n: >The affected equipment is about 100 feet from the road...\n: \n: Might be a couple of hundred watts, from the sound of it. Kicking sound\n: out of the TV and stereo speakers by direct RF rectification requires a\n: mighty strong carrier! [I've heard of linears so powerful that\n: triggering them while the car was idling, would stall the engine by\n: pulling down the battery voltage.]\n\nIt would take a lot more than that. It sounds like the radio equipment is\nactually not shut completely off - but just goes to a standby situation.\n\nI suspect that the stories are just that, stories. The voltage can only\nbe sucked down so far instantaneously. When you try to jumpstart someones \ncar, when your vehicle is at idle, does your car stall? No, the other car\njust does not crank well. Now, the engine might stall because the idle\nwas too low to start with. When the extra current is drawn, the idle speed\nwill drop - as the alternator loads down the engine to compensate for the\nincreased amperage requirement.\n\n: >Is resolution of this problem a matter for the power company, the fcc, or both?\n: \n: Ultimately it's likely to be your problem to resolve, I'm afraid. The\n: FCC is so understaffed that they don't pay much attention to citizen\n: complains about RFI (or so I've heard)... they'll just send you a\n: pamphlet describing how you can apply corrective measures.\n: \n: Talking to the power company might help - they might be able to install\n: filtering devices at your service panel (or recommend a type which you\n: could have installed by a licensed electrician).\n\nA transmitter is not going to be affecting house power. If surges are\noccurring there, it is due to another cause - not a transmitter.\n\n: Unfortunately, there's a fair chance that enough signal is being picked\n: up by your house wiring that a simple service-panel filter won't\n: suffice. You may need to install heavy-duty RFI filters at the power\n: connections of your affected equipment.\n\nIt is probably not that much of a problem. Often - toroid coils on the\npower leads will solve that part of the interference problem. It will\nnot solve internal equipment deficiencies.\n\n: If the problem occurs regularly, you may need to \"stake out\" the street\n: in question, and watch for trucks or cars with big antennae driving by\n: at the time interference occurs. If you can identify the vehicle which\n: is transmitting, you may be able to contact its owner and complain.\n\nIt is probably not the transmitter that is at fault. If the person is an\namateur, then he/she will probably be willing to help - if you explain\nthat the person is causing interference.", "\nNot according to the NEC nor the CEC, as explained in the electrical wiring \nFAQ, which I posted here separately. Note the material under the headings\n\n\nand\n\n\nOf course, as they said -- \"Local codes may vary\". \n\n\nI'm not sure about this. If the ground connections on the outlets are\nconnected to anything, they should be connected to a wire that runs back to the\nmain panel, where it is bonded to the neutral connector and to the house ground\nrod. A connection to a local earth ground would not necessarily meet one of\nthe goals of the ground wire, which is that if a short develops from hot\nto the ground wire, enough current would flow to trip the breaker. \n\nHmmm. How are those orange \"isolated ground\" outlets (often used in\ncomputer rooms) wired? ", "\n\n\nSince we are in the subject, I have one more question. I have a Trident\n8900C Video Card. I want to know what is the latest video driver for it.\nSo far, all I can find is that an old driver dated Aug. 92 in garbo.uwasa.fi\nAnyone have any info ? Please e-mail me at axh113@psuvm.psu.edu", "I have been backing up my hard drive ever since I had to re-install\neverything from scratch after a crash (learned the hard way, didn't I?!).\nI am using a windows-based backup program (actually Norton), and I \nbegan wondering about the logic of this. Sure, if I accidentally delete\na file, I can get it from the archive. But what if my disk crashes again?\nI would not be able to start windows to run the backup program! (Note,\nby crash, I mean, there was some error message that prevented the machine\nfrom booting properly. I think I gave up too early, but I didn't have\nthe time/patience/tools to figure out exactly what the problem was. My\nhard drive needed cleaning up anyway. Yeah right...) This whole scenario\nis complicated by the fact that I am using Stacker.\n\nSo I think there are 2 possibilities:\n\n 1) I'm right. If my disk really crashes, I would at least have to\n re-install DOS and Windows to get the backup program working.\n 2) I'm wrong. There is an easy way to make a \"mirror\" of a hard disk\n that can easily restore it's state from scratch.\n\nThe polls are open...", "\nSimple. First, Andrew is correct, although I can see where there might be\nsome confusion. It is indeed possible to have two cards *configured* to use\nthe same interrupt. They can not *share* the interrupt in the sense that it\nis not possible to have both cards active at the same time.\n\nHere is an example. For some time, I was short of \"free interrupts.\" I had a\ntape controller (not a \"floppy tape\") that needed one of IRQ0-IRQ7. (It's an\n*old* tape drive.) My solution was to use IRQ3 (also used for COM2, where my\nmodem is). I did this because I reasoned I would never be using the modem and\nthe tape simultaneously. When kermit runs, it installs its own interrupt\nhandler for IRQ3 and uses the serial port. If the tape drive were to generate\nan interrupt, kermit would not have a clue what to do with/for the tape\ncontroller. (And since the tape controller would not be serviced, it would\nmost likely \"hang.\") Likewise, when the tape backup software runs, it\ninstalls an interrupt handler for IRQ3. That handler won't do anything for\nthe serial port.\n\nUnder DOS, printing is NOT interrupt-driven. Instead, the BIOS polls the\nstatus of the parallel port to determine when another byte may be sent.\nThat's why you can have your sound card and LPT1 both configured to use IRQ7.\nTry that on NT and see how far you'll get. :-)\n-- \nKenneth R. Ballou\t\t\t\tVOICE:\t\t (617) 494-0990\nOberon Software, Inc.\t\t\t\tFAX:\t\t (617) 494-0414\nOne Memorial Drive, Cambridge, MA 02142\tInternet: ballou@oberon.com", "terminated\n\nIt is very possible to connect another internal hard disk in any\nmacintosh if you can find the space to put it. I have a IIsi that came\nwith a Quantum 80 meg drive. When I ran into space problems, I slapped in\nanother 40 meg quantum that I had sitting on a shelf. Here is what I did.\n \nFirst off, I was concerned about space. Since both drives are Quantum\nquarter height drives, I finally decided that the logical place for them\nwas stacked one upon the other. Fine, they fit snugly. (I have not had a\nproblem with heat yet, and these drives have been running together for\nover two months.\n\nThe next problem was connecting the drive. If you have a spare internal\nhard disk power cable as I did, then half of your troubles are over. just\nsplice in the extra cable so that you get one square motherboard\nconnector and two hard disk power connectors. If you don't have a spare\ncable, you will have to buy the wires and connectors which can be found\nin any good electronics store for about $10. I would suggest properly\nsoldering/heatshrinking the connections to reduce the possibility of\nshorts or bad connections.\n\nNext, you need a ribbon cable connection. Again, I had a spare hard disk\nribbon cable, and I wanted to be careful in case this didn't word so what\nI did was purchase a crimp on 50 pin cable connector that gave me another\nmale connector in the middle of my spare cable. The part cost $10 again,\nand is easily attached with any good wood vice. The theory behind using a\ncrimp on connector is that if this doesn't work, my original cable is not\ndamaged, and I can go back to the original setup.\n\nHaving done all that, I couldn't be bothered to check the dev notes for\npower consumption so I plugged it in and it works like a charm to this\nday. \n\nIn a mac II, everything should work the same. Be careful with the ID's of\nthe drive, and ensure that the terminating resistors on both drives are\nintact. I did not try this without the terminating resistors but it\nseemed logical that if I am splitting the SCSI chain, that the signal\nshould be terminated at all the ends.\n\nLet me know if you have any more questions.", "I recently purchased the then current Pkg.# 486dx-33 for $2395 (but changed\nto NEC 3FGx monitor upgrade). Buy this Pkg. #3 now - for $100 more, you now\nget a bigger HD - 340mb with @256 HD cache. 30 days ago, when I bought this\npkg., it was 245mb with @132K HD cache. This is a great deal although it is\ngenerally recommended you at least upgrade to the 15' Zeos (CTX) monitor for\n$99 more I believe. Whether you also upgrade to the Diamond Viper video\ncard is your choice. I stayed with the Diamond Speedstar Pro. Zeos Tech\nSupport is really good - call after normal business hours to get the \nfastest access. The hardest part about buying a Zeos is the wait till it is\ndelivered - once you order you can hardly wait to get it! There are quite a\nfew good mail order houses around - lots of bang for buck with Zeos.\n", "I would like to sell my dot matrix printer so I can upgrade to inkjet.\nIt is a \"Panasonic KX-P1124 24 pin Multi-Mode Printer\". Here are the\nstats (from memory and the manual):\n\n- 360x360 dot-printing for hi-res graphics, etc.\n- VERY fast (up to 192 cps) printing in \"printer-controlled\" (as\n\topposed to Windows driver-controlled) printing\n- Bidirectional printing for faster processing speed\n- 5 fonts (\"courier\",\"prestige\",\"bold ps\",\"script\",\"sans serif\")\n- Epson LQ-2500 and IBM Proprinter X24 printer emulation\n- Can accept single sheets, envelopes, and 3 non-carbon copies by\n\tfriction feed\n- Front or bottom paper feed\n- 6KB buffer\n\nI will send a sample document and a printed GIF/JPEG file to anyone\nwho wishes to send a SASE. With purchase (prepaid, please!), I will\ninclude the following accessories:\n\n- Manual\n- cable (Centronics)\n- remaining stack of tractor-fed paper (about .4\")\n- FREE copy of Windows printer driver (unless this is illegal, or if\n\tit is included with Windows)\n- FREE unregistered DOS shareware program ($2 registration, I think)\n\tthat apparently offers some word processing capabilities\n\tfrom DOS\n\nThe last two will be on a disk (either size). I am asking for around\n$165, but I am open to any (reasonable) offers. I am a college\nstudent, so I cannot afford to buy a new printer without getting a\nconsiderable portion of the money from this printer. This price\nincludes all above items, and shipping (probably UPS) is included as\nwell. I have the original box, but only one of the original Styrofoam\nend pieces. I will use a towel on the other end (you get a free towel\ntoo!!). Worked fine getting it here. The whole shebang might not fit\nin the original box; I will figure this out after the offers come in.\nEmail any questions and offers.\t\t-Jon.", "Hello. I have a question (or two) about the serial ports for the\npowerbooks (specifically the 145 with system 7.0.1). Is there a\ndifference between the serial ports on the powerbooks versus\nany other mac, say plus or ii?? I have heard, though not confirmed\nby apple that the serial ports have problems at high speeds.\n\nI also heard that sys 7.1's new power manager 'fixes' this problem\nallowing speeds just as any other serial port.\n\nMy particular use is that I have a 6811 EVB board that I need to\ninterface with my powerbook via the modem port at 9600 baud. \nCurrently, we are interfacing using mac pluses. I set everything\nup just as in lab and nothing. In fact, the powerbook locks up.\n\nCan anyone help, inform, advise? I would appreciate it. \nI would prefer email since I don't read the news at all.\nI will post a summary if enough response is generated.\n\nThanks. \n\nFaisal M. Bhamani\nfaceman@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu", "It seems like XTranslateCoord. doesn't work the way I expecting it. Right\nafter performs a XMoveWindow, I want to know the absolute window position\nwith respect to the root window. To get this info. I do a XTranslateCoordinates\nbut the abs_x, and abs_y aren't right? Does anybody know of a way to find \nout this information?\n\nThanks, please e-mail to hsteve@carina.unm.edu if it's possible\n", "Have anyone dealt with \"Hardware that Fits\" before. I have seen \ntheir ad in both MacWorld and MacUser and decided to try them \nwhen I needed a new disk. The result was not satisfactory and\nI was just wondering if I was just an isolated case.\n\nI like to send a letter to the president of \"Hardware that Fits\".\nDo anyone know the address? Is it the same address as the one I\nreturn the products to?\n\n\n-- \nMei-Mei Su\n===========================================================================\nSoftware Engineer email : mms@ltx_tr.portal.com \nLTX Corporation meisu@netcom.com", "\n\n\nNo cache.\n\n\nCorrect.\n8kB.\nWas it six instructions?\n\n80486DX without the mathematical coprocessor (FPU).\n\nActually, the 80486 you described above is 80486DX.\n(There is no separate 80486 nor 80386, either).\n\nThis is for Intel processors. Does anyone have a complete\nlist with Cyrix and Ibm products?\n\nAnssi", "Hell, just set up a spark jammer, or some other _very_ electrically-noisy\ndevice. Or build an active Farrady cage around the room, with a \"noise\"\nsignal piped into it. While these measures will not totally mask the\nemissions of your equipment, they will provide sufficient interference to\nmake remote monitoring a chancy proposition, at best. There is, of course,\nthe consideration that these measures may (and almost cretainly will)\ncause a certain amount of interference in your own systems. It's a matter\nof balancing security versus convenience.\n\nBTW, I'm an ex-Air Force Telecommunications Systems Control Supervisor and\nTelecommunications/Cryptographic Equipment Technician.\n", "Dear friend,\n The RISC means \"reduced instruction set computer\". The RISC usually has \nsmall instruction set so as to reduce the circuit complex and can increase \nthe clock rate to have a high performance. You can read some books about\ncomputer architecture for more information about RISC.", "After hearing endless debate (READ: name-calling) over which os is better, dos\nand windows or OS/2 and finally having enought resourses to play with a couple\nof different operating systems, I have decided to put the two products to a\nhead to head test, as so many fellow newsposters have suggested. I have, \nhowever, no desire whatsoever to use a version of os/2 which wont REALLY\ndo what it says (i.e. run windows apps) OS/2 2.0-2.1 will not run windows\napps in 386 enhansed mode, something that most larger windows apps require, but\nOS/2 2.2, which is supposed to be in beta test, is supposed to. I have heard\nthat os/2 2.2 beta is available via ftp, and I was wondering if anyone knew\nwhere to obtain a copy. I would appreciate any information, as I would like, \nonce and for all, to establish for myself which is the best os for my needs.", "\nI tend to use XIconifyWindow to achieve this effect... Have you tried that?\n\n- Brad", "\n You can edit that file with a utility that comes with Windows 3.1 called\n\"REGEDIT\" (Registration Info Editor)\n", "I have looked through the FAQ sections and have not\nseen a answer for this.\n\nI have an X/Motif application that I have written.\nI have a couple of gif files (or pict) that I have\nscanned in with a color scanner. Now I would like\nto be able to convert the gif files into a format\nthat could be read into my application and displayed\non the background of its main window. Preferably with\npixmaps, or perhaps as an XImage.\n\nI have found functions in the pbmplus program suite\nto convert gif to xbm, but that is monochrome, and\nI really do need color.\n\nI have looked at xv, which reads in gif, and writes\nout several formats, but have not found a way to write\nout a file which can be read in as a pixmap.\n\nIs there an easy way to do this?\n\nemail responses preferred.\n\nthanks!\n\n'mark\n\nahlenius@rtsg.mot.com\n", "\nA very good modeling package I found is `irit' (look for irit.tar.Z).\nHowever there is no converter from it's format to POV format. I postet \na request for such a converter in this group but got no response,\nso I'm considering to write such a program myself.\n\n", "I'm not sure if this is the correct place to ask this question. If not,\nplease forgive me and point me in the right direction.\n\nDoes anybody know of a program that converts .GIF files to .BMP files\nand if so, where can I ftp it from? Any help would be greatly \nappreciated.\n\nPlease respond via e-mail as I do not read this group very often.", "\nCharlie Brett's suggestion -- buy one of the disposable flash cameras, use\nthe film, then take the thing apart -- is a good one. Note, though, that\nyou won't get a particularly precise voltage out of such a thing, and it\nmay be a single-point design that won't adapt well to off-nominal operation.\n\nThe things are easy to dismantle. The key piece of information is that\nwhen you advance the film on one of them, you are winding it *into* the\nfilm cassette -- it is unwound from the cassette in the factory, when\nthe camera is made. So no darkroom is needed for dismantling. It's\nstandard film, so just take the cassette in for processing.\n\nAll the camera-store people do when you bring in one of the disposables\nis rip it apart, toss the film cassette into the to-be-processed bin,\nand throw the battery in one trashcan and the rest of the camera in\nanother. If you take it apart yourself, you get an AA alkaline battery\n(still with a fair bit of life in it) and all kinds of little bits and\npieces from the camera.\n\nI expect you could even re-load and re-use the camera if you were really\ndetermined.", "i need to know about the market for cellular antenna\ntechnology today... who are the main companies in the\nmarket.. how much are they selling them for? who are the\ncontact people? what are the specs?\n\nI will mail oyou our reserach so far if youcan help us!!\n", "\nWe use a CD-ROM based system here. There are about 45 CD-ROM disks and a\n4-disk changer hooked to a dedicated MS-DOS computer. It contains scanned\nimages of data book pages for several thousand parts. When you ask it for\nsomething it knows about (mostly active IC parts), it works quite well.\nTHey don't handle all the varieties of transistors or diodes that exist.\nIt is definately a start in the right direction, but they need to expand\nthe data base to handle more types of stuff.\n\nThese systems aren't cheap. We paid about $7,000 for the liscence and get\nmonthly updates of some of the CD-ROM disks. We send the old ones back to\nthem so that they will keep sending us the updates. I think we pay a\nyearly maintainence fee of about $1,500 to get the updates.\n\nIf you find the part you want, you can look at the data sheet on a\npage-sized monitor (it's a special monitor from SigmaSystems). You can\nalso print each page of the datasheet you want on a LaserJet printer. Page\nprinting takes a couple of minutes per page. It can take a while to dump\nthe 5 or 6 pages you usually need.\n\nI have a feeling the maker wouldn't like it if we made the data available\nto all Internet users. :-)\n\n -dave\n", "Where do I find the Athena Widgets that are needed for xtdm-2.4.8 ", "\nOpenGL is a graphics programming library and as such is a great, portable\ninterface for the development of interactive 3D graphics applications. It\nis not, however, an indicator of performance, as that will vary strongly\nfrom machine to machine and vendor to vendor. SGI is committed to high\nperformance interactive graphics systems and software tools, so OpenGL\nmeans that you can port easily from SGI to other platforms, there is no\nguarantee that your performance would be comparable.\n\n\nIf your sales representative truly mislead you, then you should have a\nvalid grievance against us which you should carry up to your local SGI\nsales management team. Feel free to contact the local branch manager...we\nunderstand that repeat sales come from satisfied customers, so give it a\nshot.\n\n\nAs one of the previous posts stated, the Personal IRIS was introduced in\n1988 and grew to include the 4D/20, 4D/25, 4D/30 and 4D/35 as clock rates\nsped up over time. As a rule of thumb, SGI platforms live for about 4-5\nyears. This was true of the motorola-based 3000 series ('85-'89), the PI\n('88-'93), the Professional Series (the early 4D's - '86-'90), the Power\nSeries parallel systems ('88-'93). Individual CPU subsystems running at a\nparticular clock rate usually live for about 2 years. New graphics\narchitectures at the high end (GT, VGX, RealityEngine) are released every\n18 months to 2 years.\n\nThese are the facts of life. If we look at these machines, they become\nalmost archaic after four years, and we have to come out with a new\nplatform (like Indigo, Onyx, Challenge) which has higher bus bandwidths,\nfaster CPUs, faster graphics and I/O, and larger disk capacities. If we\ndon't, we become uncompetitive.\n\nFrom the user perspective, you have to buy a machine that meets your\ncurrent needs and makes economic sense today. You can't wait to buy, but\nif you need a guaranteed upgrade path for the machine, ask the Sales Rep\nfor one in writing. If it's feasible, they should be able to do that. Some\nof our upgrade paths have specific programs associated with them, such as\nthe Performance Protection Program for older R3000-based Power Series\nmultiprocessing systems which allowed purchasers of those systems to obtain\na guaranteed upgrade price for moving to the new Onyx or Challenge\nR4400-based 64-bit multiprocessor systems.\n\n\nIf that's happening, it's becausing of misunderstandings or\nmis-communication, not because SGI is directly attempting to annoy our\ncustomer base.\n\n\nMost SGI customers are onesy-twosey types, but regardless, we rarely give a\ngreat deal of notice when we are about to introduce a new system because\nagain, like a previous post stated, if we pre-announced and the schedule\nslipped, we would mess up our potential customers schedules (when they were\ncounting on the availability of the new systems on a particular date) and\nwould also look awfully bad to both our investors and the financial\nanalysts who watch us most carefully to see if we are meeting our\ncommitments.\n\n\nFive years is an awfully long time in computer years. New processor\ntechnologies are arriving every 1-2 years, making a 5 year old computer at\nleast 2 and probably 3 generations behind the times. The competitive nature\nof the market is demanding that rate of development, so if your timing is\nreally 5 years between purchases, you have to accept the limited viability\nof whatever architecture you buy into from any vendor.\n\nThere are some realities about the computer biz that we all have to live\nwith, but keeping customers happy is the most important, so don't give up,\nwe know it.\n\nJosh |:-)\n\n-- \n", "\n\n\n\n\nI tried to send this as private mail, but mail to benj@ossa.hq.nasa.gov was\nrejected, so here it is:\n\nHere is an extract from the README file that comes with MacX:\n\nUsers of remote commands with Sun machines may find that their remote commands \nappear to do nothing and there is no output from the Sun machine. This is due \nto a feature of the Sun rexecd network daemon which quietly disconnects from \nrequesting machines that are not known to the Sun|s network address (/etc/hosts\nor NIS hosts) database. To successfully use remote commands with a SunOS-based\nmachine, there must be an entry in the network address database for the \nMacintosh which is running MacX.\n\n-- ", "I've got the following Lynx games for sale/trade. Make an offer.\n\nBatman Returns\nPinball Jam\nPaperboy\nGates of Zendecon\n\n\n\n\n-- \nbrian\noplinger@ra.crd.ge.com", "terminated\n\nIt is very possible to connect another internal hard disk in any\nmacintosh if you can find the space to put it. I have a IIsi that came\nwith a Quantum 80 meg drive. When I ran into space problems, I slapped in\nanother 40 meg quantum that I had sitting on a shelf. Here is what I did.\n \nFirst off, I was concerned about space. Since both drives are Quantum\nquarter height drives, I finally decided that the logical place for them\nwas stacked one upon the other. Fine, they fit snugly. (I have not had a\nproblem with heat yet, and these drives have been running together for\nover two months.\n\nThe next problem was connecting the drive. If you have a spare internal\nhard disk power cable as I did, then half of your troubles are over. just\nsplice in the extra cable so that you get one square motherboard\nconnector and two hard disk power connectors. If you don't have a spare\ncable, you will have to buy the wires and connectors which can be found\nin any good electronics store for about $10. I would suggest properly\nsoldering/heatshrinking the connections to reduce the possibility of\nshorts or bad connections.\n\nNext, you need a ribbon cable connection. Again, I had a spare hard disk\nribbon cable, and I wanted to be careful in case this didn't word so what\nI did was purchase a crimp on 50 pin cable connector that gave me another\nmale connector in the middle of my spare cable. The part cost $10 again,\nand is easily attached with any good wood vice. The theory behind using a\ncrimp on connector is that if this doesn't work, my original cable is not\ndamaged, and I can go back to the original setup.\n\nHaving done all that, I couldn't be bothered to check the dev notes for\npower consumption so I plugged it in and it works like a charm to this\nday. \n\nIn a mac II, everything should work the same. Be careful with the ID's of\nthe drive, and ensure that the terminating resistors on both drives are\nintact. I did not try this without the terminating resistors but it\nseemed logical that if I am splitting the SCSI chain, that the signal\nshould be terminated at all the ends.\n\nLet me know if you have any more questions.", "\n...\n\n\nYes, that is what it sounds like to me, too. But before I spend\nda bucks, I want to make sure I'm right. I do have e-mail from\na (self-confessed :-) Apple-hater listing a few common problems\nwith the C610, but nothing I can't get fixed under warranty.\n\nSo, anybody else? Great or lousy?", "I am in the market for a 120M hard drive! I have a IIsi with 5/80 and I am\nalmost all filled up! Is anyone selling any HD's for the Mac for cheap? Where\ncan I get one through mail order and where is the best place to buy from for\nthe best prices? Is there anyone on the net or on this newsgroup that sells\nthem for wholesale or cheaper? Any info would be appreciated! Thanks!\n", "Hi people..\n\nOK heres my problem.... \nI keep hearing about these little credit card type of things which\ndetect IR light....\n\nI believe that you have to 'charge them up' under normal (visible) light\nand then if they are exposed to IR light they glow or something like\nthat...\n\nI think that they are avaliable in the states and even in England, but\nalas I live in Australia. Could someone please inform me if I can get\nthese things over here, and if so where??? and how much???\n\nAlso are they really commonly avaliable in the states, and if so, then\nhow much are they and who sells them (maybe if I cant get one here, I'll\nwrite to one of the companies over seas..)\n\nAnyway.... Thanks in advance...", ": \n: So what's the story here... we're all stuck with the regular\n: green, red, and off yellow-orange LED's!? What gives!!??\n: Anybody have a 'scoop' on FAIRLY LOW PRICED >BLUE< LED's???\n\nIf your looking for LEDs in the $.10-$.20 range, forget it. Blue LEDs just\nrecently became available and the materials they are made of are expensive.\nMaybe in the future they will become less expensive (and brighter), but\nfor now it's going to cost you and the output will be limited. If they ever\ndo get as efficient and cost effective as red and green LEDs, you're probably\ngoing to see a whole new family of color displays.", "I recently decided to try using emm386.exe for a memory manager and when I\ntried to print to my printer in lpt1 from word55 I wouldn't work. It would\nsend the linefeeds for the top margin and then the printer READY light would\ngo off and stop working. I disabled emm386.exe and the problem went away.\nI would like to continue using emm386.exe if possible. I would greatly \nappreciate any comments or suggestions!! please send them to arthur@u.washingt,", "\n\n\n\tIs the 24v LH under $16K, though?\n\n", "Has anyone built Xkernel for 3/80's? It works great on our 3/50s, and I \nwould just as soon kiss the entire Sun 3 architeture goodbye (and reclaim \na bunch of disk space). Email me direct, I'll post a summary.\n", "From my rather rusty knowledge of radio, most radio receivers use a superhet \ncircuit, so that the incoming signal is mixed with a local oscillator, giving \na fixed intermediate frequency (IF) that is more easily amplified. The\ndetector detectors work by picking up IF re-radiated from your radar \ndetector. In Britain, where one has/used to pay for a TV licence, there \nare/were TV detector vans prowling the streets, looking for people who hadn't \npaid their licence fee. They had a couple of long solenoid antennae on the\nroof, and I believe could triangulate an operating TV from the IF. \n\nI wonder how much of the IF is radiated back from the detector antenna, and \nhow much from the rest of the module. It might be worth putting the detector \nin a proper RF shielded enclosure.\n", ": \n: Where could I find a description of the JPG file format? Specifically\n: I need to know where in a JPG file I can find the height and width of \n: the image, and perhaps even the number of colors being used.\n: \n: Any suggestions?\n: \n: Peter\n\nTry ftp.uu.net, in /graphics/jpeg.\n--", "\n\n\nThis is indeed one function, but more sophisticated ones do level control\nand ground-lift (separating the keyboard and mixer earths) aswell.\n\n\nSimple ones are just that - a transformer. A decent quality audio trans-\nformer will cost most of that $50. They are wired thus...\n\n\n HOT --------------| |----------------- HOT\n )||(\n Input from )||( Balanced out to mixer\n Keyboard )||(\n | |----------------- COLD\n |\n GND --------------|-------------------- GND\n\nThe ground-lift switch disconnects the GND line from the mixer. The\ntransformer ratio depends on the precise application, but around 10:1\nturns ratio may be a good place to start.\n\nChristopher", "\nI downloaded these files a couple of days ago and they appeared to be\nincompatible with this particular card. None of the SVGA drivers worked.\nThey're probably for the newer 8900 and 9000 series.\n\n\tJM", "I'm working on a system which uses a given set of 3D key frame\npositions (x,y,z) to control an imaginary camera movement. I'm\nusing Kochanek-Bartels splines (as described in the SIGGRAPH '84\nproceedings) to create a variable number of inbetweens between\nthe key frames. I want the inbetweens to be given in the form\n(x,y,z,dx,dy,dz) where the last three argumentsa are the x, y and\nz component of the viewing direction vector of the camera when\npositioned at (x,y,z).\n\nThe method presented by Kochanek and Bartels only deals with the\npositions of the inbetween view points to be generated. I've\ntried to set the viewing direction at a view point equal to the\nchord between the two adjacent view points (which in general are\nnot key frames), but this causes a sligt discontinuity of the\nviewing direction vector at the key frame positions (although\nthe spatial movement seems to work fine; and I'm quite certain\n- I think :) - that I've not simply made an implementation\nerror...)\n\nNow I wonder if anyone out there has used this spline form for\nsimilar purposes and how they decided the viewing vectors.\nI'd appreciate replies to be emailed to me at\n iharkest@lise.unit.no\nAnyone else interested in the answer will be sent a summary of\nthe replies if they contact me.\n\n-- \n _________ __________________\n\\\\ \\\\ \\\\\n \\\\ N G E \\\\==\\\\ A R K E S T A D iharkest@lise.unit.no Comp. Sc.\n \\\\________\\\\ \\\\_______________ NTH (Norwegian Institute of Technology)", "Western Digital 3.5\" IDE 40 Meg Hard drive.\n$95 or BO.\n+ shipping\n", "\n\nMost importantly, which Winbench version are you using? On my local bus ATI\nGraphics Ultra Pro, I've gotten various Winbench scores from 15.8 million to\n31 million winmarks, depending on the version. Winbench 2.5 gives the most\noptimistic scores, 3.11 gives the least. A winmark rating is meaningless\nwithout a corresponding version number.\n\nDan\n", "Looking for a graphics/CAD/or-whatever package on a X-Unix box that will\ntake a file with records like:\n\nn a b p\n\nwhere n = a count - integer \n a = entity a - string\n b = entity b - string\n p = type - string\n\nand produce a networked graph with nodes represented with boxes or circles\nand the vertices represented by lines and the width of the line determined by\nn. There would be a different line type for each type of vertice. The boxes\nneed to be identified with the entity's name. The number of entities < 1000\nand vertices < 100000. It would be nice if the tool minimized line\ncross-overs and did a good job of layout. ;-)\n\n I have looked in the FAQ for comp.graphics and gnuplot without success. Any\nideas would be appreciated?\n\nThanks,", "OK. Instead of holding an auction, I have decided to compute prices for each comic (after many suggestions). These are the most reasonable prices I can give (not negotiable). If you would like to purchase a comic (or group), simply email me with the title and issue #'s you want. The price for each issue is shown beside each comic. First come, first served!!! There is no more bidding. Meet my price and it is yours. I can be reached at this email address:\n\n02106@chopin.udel.edu or\n02106@ravel.udel.edu or\n02106@bach.udel.edu or\n02106@brahms.udel.edu\n\nNO MORE HAGGLING ABOUT THE PRICE!!!!!!!!\nLOTS OF COMICS FOR $1, $2, or $3 LOOK AT LIST!!!!!\n\nShipping is $2 for 1-3 comics. For more than 3, the price will be determined by the volume of the purchase (I may have to use a big heavy box for large orders which costs more to mail).\n\nFor all those who have bought comics from me, thanks!!!\n\nAll comics are near mint unless otherwise noted (my books were graded by\nmile high comics and other comic professional collectors, not me!)\n\nHere is the list:\n\n\n\nIncredible Hulk\n156 (vs another Hulk) $3\n195 $2\n196 $2\n246 (vs Captain Marvel) $1\n248 $1\n249 $1\n250 (Double size issue vs Silver Surfer) $5\n255 (vs Thor) $1\n279 $1\n300 $2\n312 $2\n313 $1\n316 (vs Bi Coastal Avengers) $1\n347 $1\n348 $1\n350 (vs Thing) $2\n354 $1\n358 $1\n360 $1\n362 (vs Werewolf By Night) $2\n364 $1\n365 $1\n366 $1\n379 (1 copy) $5\n\n\nPunisher\n50 $1\n57 $2\n\nPunisher War Journal\n29 (Ghost Rider) $2\n30 (Ghost Rider) $2\n\nPunisher Armory\n1 $4\n2 $2\n\nOriginal Ghost Rider Rides Again (Reprint)\n1 $1\n\nGhost Rider (old series)\n37 $3\n43 (vs Johnny Blaze) $3\n77 (2 copies, origin of GR dream) $4 each\n\nGhost Rider (new series)\n15 (1st print, Green glow in dark cover, 1 copy) $5\n15 (2nd print, gold cover w/ glow cover) $3\n\nWeb of Spiderman\n56 (2 copies) $2 each\n60 $3\n69 (vs Hulk, 1 copy left!!!) $2\n70 (SpiderHulk, 1 copy left!!!) $2\n71 $1\n72 $1\n78 $1\n\nDeadly Foes of Spiderman\n1 (2 copies) $2 each\n2 $2\n3 $2\n\nAmazing Spiderman vs Dr. Octopus (special NACME issue) $2\n\nAmazing Spiderman \n350 (vs Dr. Doom, 1 copy LEFT!!!) $2\n\nSpiderman (1990)\n1 (silver, not bagged) $4\n6 $3\n7 $3\n8 (2 copies) $2 each\n9 (w/ Wolverine, 1 COPY LEFT!!!) $2\n10 $2\n11 $1\n13 $5\n16 $1\n\nNew Warriors\n1 (gold cover) $2\n8 $4\n10 $2\n11 $1\n12 $1\n13 $1\n14 (w/ Darkhawk) $1\n15 $1\n\nSuperman Man of Steel #1 $2\n\nSuperman (new)\n53 (2 copies) $1 each\n55 $1\n56 $1\n\nAdventures of Superman \n479 $1\nAnnual #3 $1\n\nSuperman Annual #3 (Armegedon 2001 tie in) $1\n\nAction Comics #666 $1\n\nAvengers West Coast #69 (Hawkeye vs US Agent) $1\n\nBatman\n465 (Robin returns) $2\n466 $1\n467 $1\nAnnual #15 (Armegedon 2001 tie in) $3\n\nCaptain America \n230 (vs Hulk) $2\n257 (vs Hulk) $1\n\n\nArmegedon 2001 \n1 $4\n2 $2\n\n\nFoolkiller #1 $2\n\n\nInfinity Gauntlet \n1 $6\n4 $3\n5 $3\n\nDouble Dragon #1 $1\n\nDeathlok (series) \n2 $1\n\nTransformers #80 (last issue) $2 \n\nWonder Man\n1 $1\n2 $1\n\nFlaming Carrot #25 (w/ Ninja Turtles) $2\n\nThe Comet #1 $1\n\nLegend of the Shield #1 $1\n\nJustice Society of America\n1 $1\n2 $1\n3 $1\n4 $1\n\nOfficial movie mag from Turtles II movie (sealed w/ Jelloman comic) $5\n\nRobin \n1 (1 copies w/ poster) $3\n1 (3rd print) $1\n5 (6 copies) $1 each\n\nGuardians of the Galaxy \n1 $6\n2 $3\n3 $2\n4 $2\n5 $2\n6 $2\n7 $2\n8 $2\n9 (2 copies) $3 each\n10 $2\n11 $2\n12 $1\n13 $3\n14 $3\n15 $1\n16 $1\n17 $1\n18 (2 copies) $2 each\n\nSuperman vs Amazing Spiderman (oversized issue from 70's) $7\n\nDarkHawk\n1 (3 copies) $8 each\n2 (2 copies) $6 each\n3 $5\n4 $4\n5 $4\n6 $3\n7 $2\n8 $2\n9 $3\n10 $1\n\nThor\n246 $1\n428 $1\n429 (vs Juggernaut) $2\n430 (w/ Ghost Rider) $1\n431 $1\n432 (Thor vs Loki, 2 copies) $3 each\n433 (new Thor) $2\nAnnual #16 $1\n\nWhat if....\n13 $1\n23 $1\n25 $2\n26 $1\n\nAlpha Flight\n29 $1\n51 $6\n53 $6\n94 (vs Fant. 4) $1\n\nNew Mutants\n22 $2\n100 (last issue, 1st look at X-Force, 1st print, 2 copies) $5 each\n100 (2nd print, gold cover) $4\n\nFlash (new)\n43 $1\n48 $1\n49 $1\n50 $2\n51 $1\nAnnual #4 $1\n\n\nX-Men (new)\n1 (all 5 covers) $1 each but $2 for magneto foldout cover\n\nUncanny X-Men\n191 $3\n215 $2\n255 (2 copies) $2 each\n258 $6\n268 (1 sold,1 copy left!, Lee reg artist) $10\n275 (1 COPY LEFT 1st print) $6\n275 (gold 2nd print) $3\n276 $3\n277 $3\n278 $2\n279 $2\n280 $2\n281 $3\n282 $4\n283 $6\n\nDefenders\n52 (Hulk vs Sub Mariner) $2\n\n\nFantastic Four\n347 $4\n348 $2\n349 (3 copies) $2 each\n\nWolverine\n11 $3\n20 $2\n41 (w/ Cable, 2 copies) $6 each\n42 $4\n43 $3\n\nSilver Surfer (1987)\n1 $6\n2 $3\n3 $3\n4 $3\n5 $2\n6 $2\n8 $2\n22 $2\n24 $2\n32 $2\n49 $2\n50 (Foil cover, only 1 copy left!!) $6\n51 $2\n52 $2\n53 $1\n54 $1\n55 $1\n56 $1\n58 $2\n59 $2\n\nAvengers\n326 $3\n328 (origin of Rage) $3\n\nX-Factor\n40 $6\n67 $3\n68 $6\n71 $3\n73 $1\n\nQuasar\n21 $1\n22 $1\n23 $1\n24 $1\n\nGreen Lantern (1990)\n3 $2\n9 (2 copies) $1 each\n10 $1\n11 $1\n12 $1\n\nToxic Avenger\n1 (3 copies) $1 each\n2 $1\n\nSleepwalker\n1 (3 copies) $2 each\n3 $1\n7 $1\n\nKool Aid Man #1 (sealed in white bag, 2 copies) $2 each\n\nX-Force\n1 (bagged w/ Cable Card) $4\n1 (bagged w/ Shatterstar Card) $3\n2 $2\n3 $1\n4 $1\n\nNFL Superpro\n1 $1\n\nDr. Strange #31 $1\n\nHawkworld Annual #2 (2nd print, Armegedon 2001 tie in) $1\n\nHawk & Dove Annual #2 (Armegedon 2001 tie in) $1\n\nJustice League of America Annual #5 (Armegedon 2001 tie in) $1\n\n\n\nSend all bids and comments to\n\n02106@chopin.udel.edu\n\nThanks\nSam (the \"ex\" comic book collector)\n", "Does anyone know the pin-outs for the 27C512 EPROM?? I have bought\nseveral of them, none of which has come with the pin-outs! Any info would be\nappreciated....", "Everyone seems to think that this man's mouse problem is mechanical (its dirty)\n I have been having a similar problem with my mouse, and it only occurs when ru\nnning windows and therefore cannot be mechanical in nature. I'm running a mouse\n systems compatible mouse on a 486 66 DX2 with a trident 1 meg video card and a\nm experienceing similar jumpiness as well as strange font subsitutions and mous\ne traces left on screen and windows gpf errors. HELP!!!\n", "***** IBM GAMES FOR SALE OR TRADE *****\n\no ADVENTURE\n\n Eric the Unready -- Legend -- $35\n King's Quest V -- Sierra -- CD-ROM edition -- $35\n\no SPORTS\n\n Michael Jordan In Flight -- Electronic Arts -- $35\n Mike Ditka's Ultimate Football -- Accolade -- $30\n David Ledbetter's Greens -- Microprose -- $30\n\no STRATEGY\n\n Risk -- Virgin -- $10\n\n\nThis software comes with all original packaging and manuals.\nPrice includes ground shipping to continental US.\n\nI will trade for current games; send me your list...\n\n--", "I recall reading that the Mac LC (and presumably the LC II & III) can use stand\nard VGA monitors, with appropriate cable adapters. I am uncertain of this sinc\ne I have asked other people who say this is not so. So can all vga monitors be\n used on the Mac LC? What are the specs needed for a PC monitor to work with a\nMac LC (horizontal nad vertical frequencies)?\n \n \n \n \n", "Hi. One of my coworkers is having a very odd problem. His mouse\nworks fine in DOS applications, if you load them from the C: prompt.\nUnder Windows, the mouse pointer is present, but does not move. Even\nif you load a DOS app under Windows, the mouse doesn't work.\n\n The computer is a Zeos 386SX-20 w/Diamond Speedstar VGA running MS\nDOS 5.0 and Windows 3.1. Mouse driver is Microsoft's 8.2. I've tried\nswitching the mouse from COM1 to COM2, I've tried a different mouse,\nI've reinstalled MOUSE.DRV, and I can't get the blamed thing to work.\nThe only difference between his system and mine (where the mouse works\nperfectly) is that he has an expansion card with an additional\nparallel and serial port. Could that cause the problem? \n\n Thanks in advance for any help.", "I am having trouble with SCSI on a Mac IIfx. The machine is 3 years old\nand I have been using the same hard drive (internal Maxtor LXT-200S) for\ntwo and a half years. The disk recently crashed. I reformatted (Silverlining\n5.42), but during the reformat I received random write errors during testing.\nThe error message reported was like:\n\nSector 0: Write error detected after testing good - sector not mapped out.\n\nThis occurred randomly all over the hard disk (which makes me suspect the\ndiagnostic's reference to Sector 0 ??? ). On the third reformat and after\nreinstalling the SCSI read/write loops I was able to get through passes\n2,3, and 4 with no errors. (Pass 1 for some reason reported a lot of errors,\nbut still mapped out no sectors.) I decided to go ahead and try to resinstall\nSystem 7 and reload my data from a backup. This proceded normally; however,\nI now have sub-optimal performance. Symptoms include:\n\n o Frequent crashes\n o Instances of extremely sluggish disk access requiring a reboot to\n correct.\n o Instances of not finding the disk on the SCSI chain on reboot.\n - If I boot from Norton Utl. after this occurs, it cannot find the\n disk either.\n - The only thing that fixes this is recycling the power. It sometimes\n requires several attempts.\n\nQUESTIONS:\n\n 1) Has anyone had this type of problem before?\n 2) Is the problem with the fx motherboard (And its non-standard\n SCSI implementation) or with my Maxtor Disk? Is there some\n diagnostic software that would help me make this determination?\n 3) Is it a termination problem? I currently have external Syquest\n and an external DataFrame XP60 on the chain. The XP60 is at the\n end, and has internal termination; so I am not using the IIfx\n terminator. I do have the SCSI filter installed on the internal\n drive. I have run with this exact steup for 2 1/2 years with\n one previous disk crash requiring a reformat (about a year ago).\n I also have symptoms if I disconnect the external devices;\n so I don't see how SCSI termination would now be an issue. Of\n course who knows :-<\n\nHelp would be much appreciated.", "\nYou can change it. As part of a continuously downsizing Government\norganization, my code (branch) changes about once a year. I just\nfinished changing the registration information using Norton Utilities.\nI sent the original requester the hex offset into USER.EXE containing\nthe information, and his reply indicated he got several similar answers.\n\nAnd it's not encoded in any way. As for the legality, there's nothing\nthat keeps me from changing the information; it certainly doesn't reach\nout and alter the serial number printed on the inside of my manual.\n", "\n\nI'm also interested in such a program. But most of all I'd like to know \nwich program is able to convert GIF or PCX to DXF !!! When I have this \nprogram, I can scan pictures and frase (or something like that !) them.\nThis will be beyond the limit !!!", "Sounds like a job for a universal time reciever. I don't know the\nlogisitics of the situation, but if you could just place a reciever in\nsnow and place the oscillator in a nice lab somewhere else, your\nproblems should be solved.\nJust a suggestion.", "So what's the story here... we're all stuck with the regular\ngreen, red, and off yellow-orange LED's!? What gives!!??\n Anybody have a 'scoop' on FAIRLY LOW PRICED >BLUE< LED's???\n\n ... just out of curiosity, of course ...\n \n \n _________________________________________________\n Inspiration | ___ |\n comes to | \\ o baden@sys6626.bison.mb.ca |\n those who | ( ^ ) baden@inqmind.bison.mb.ca |\n seek the | /-\\ =] Baden de Bari [= |\n unknown. | |\n ------------------------------------------------- \n ", ": \n: \tI have an 8514/A card, and I am using windows in 1024x768 mode \n: \t(normal 8514/A font, not small). In the 386 enhanced mode\n: \tthe DOS window font is too small for my 14\" monitor. Is there a \n: \tway to spacify the font size for the DOS window? You'll have to \n: \texcuse me if there is a trivial answer, since I am fairly new to\n: \tMS Windows world.\n: \n: \tThanks.\n: \n: \t(Please include this message for reference)\n: \t====== S. Alavi [ssa@unity.ncsu.edu] (919)467-7909 (H) ========\n: \t\t\t\t\t\t (919)515-8063 (W)", "\n[ description of experiment deleted ]\n\n\n[ more deleted ]\n\n\nA few years ago a friend and I took some 256 grey-level photos from\na 1 bit Mac Plus screen using this method. Displaying all 256 levels\nsynchronized to the 60Hz display took about 10 seconds. After\nexperimenting with different aperture settings and screen\nbrightnesses we found a range that worked well, giving respectable\ncontrast. The quality of the images was pretty good. There were no\nvisible contrast bands.\n\nTo minimize the exposure time the display program built 255\ndifferent 1 bit frames. The first contained a dot only for pixels\nthat had value 255, the second only for pixels that had value 254,\netc. These frames were stored using a sparse data structure that was\nvery fast to 'or' onto the screen in sequence. Creating these\nframes sometimes took 5-10 minutes on that old Mac, but the camera\nshutter was closed during that time anyway. And yes, we wrote\ndirectly to the screen memory. Mea culpa.\n\nOur biggest problem was that small images were displayed in the\ntop left corner of the screen instead of the center. It took\nan extra week to have the film developed and printed, because the\nprocessors took the trouble to manually move the all images into\nthe center of the print. Who'd have guessed?", ": \n: Hello,\n: \n: I recently tried to print some envelopes using AmiPro 3.0 with my\n: Deskjet 500 printer, and I seem to be having a problem. What\n: happens is after I physically load the envelope into the printer\n: (per the user manual) and then select the \"Print Envelope\" icon\n: from AmiPro (all of the proper options have been selected), the\n: printer just \"spits out\" the envelope without any printing of\n: either a return address or the selected mailing address. At\n: this point, the printer's \"ONLINE\" light begins to flash, and\n: the Print Manager shows the printer job as busy. This is all\n: that happens, until I either shut the printer off or cancel the\n: printing job from the Print Manager. I have also tried this\n: without the use of the Print Manager, with similar results \n: (AmiPro shows the printer as being busy). So, does anybody\n: have any idea/solution regarding this problem? I appreciate\n: the help. Thanks.\n\nYes - ignore the manual. Just insert the evelope - don't use the keypad\nto move it up. The Windows driver sends a message to the printer that\ntells it to load the envelope - if it is already loaded, it gets ejected\nand the printer tries to load another. The instructions in the manual\nare for dumb DOS apps. that don't send the \"load envelople\" message.\n\n\n: \n: -- Tom Belmonte", " \n There is a benchmark program called COMPTEST said CYRIX CPUs have a bug\nso they cannot run the program. Also may be NeXTSTEP 486?\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\tregards,", "I am trying to setup two Seagate Tech. hard drives as\nmaster and slave in the same system...\nwhat i need to do such is the jumper schematics of the\ntwo hard drives that i have...\nmy two Seagate HD:\tST3144A, 124MB\n\t\t\tST3283A, 233MB \n\nI need the jumpter setting schematics for these two Harddrives...\nthanx for you help in advance...", "Hi, looking for any advice or suggestions about a problem I'm\nhaving with MIT X11R5's editres, in particular under twm variants.\n\nFor a start, 9 times out of 10 (but NOT always) editres won't\ngrab a widget tree when running on our NCD (Decwindows) Xterms,\nwhich I'm told will be fixed when the R5 (not R4) XDm is installed.\nOK, so I tried running it on a Sun, running real R5, on the same\nnetwork - I get a widget tree, but it's ALWAYS for 'TWM Icon Manager'\n\nAnybody know of any patches for (a) twm or (b) editres that I should\nlook at?", "\n\nIt fixed a problem for us of getting Divide Errors that were\ncaused by the GW BIOS overwriting some interapplication \nmemory area. Our problem was with Clarion Database programs,\nbut I also heard that it fixed the same problem with Brief", "Hi!\nA while back, there was a thread in this group about the use of the IWII\nin Europe (in countries with 50 Hz AC current). The consensus at the time\nwas that the IWII would not work there. As I will be moving there this summer,\nI called Apple to make sure and they told me (today) that the IWII (as bought\nin the U.S.) will definitely run on 50 Hz AC current (as long as a step-down\nconverter is employed if 240 V current is used). The same info, turns out, can\nbe found in the IWII manual (p. 127 in the 1989 version), but I didn't really\ntrust that. Does anyone have any direct experience to the contrary? Just \nwondering.", "Hi!\n\nMy co-worker has just attached a magneto-optical drive to his mac.\nWorks Great for him. However, he tried to turn on file sharing, but it\nwouldn't work. Had some message about \"Not all volumes are shareable\"\n???\n\nSo - has anyone had success in sharing MOs? If so, please tell me how!", "\nYes, they are nice ads, and even better: great prices. But this is all on \nthe outside. The consumer sees this and orders. Little do they know, they \nwill get *POOR* service (very poor). When I ordered a 105mb hard drive from \nTC about 6 months ago, I received it in the mail, installed it, and \ndiscovered it DIDN'T WORK!!! I sent it back to them, and they said they'd \nsend me a refund check. IT TOOK MANY, MANY, MANY phone calls and hate-mail, \nas well as threats of lawsuit to get back my $250.00! In fact, it took TWO \nWHOLE MONTHS of calling and threatening! Every time I'd call, I would be \nput on the run-around until I finally wound up on an answering machine. I'd \nleave my name and phone #, but I didn't even get called back *ONCE*. I AM \nONE PISSED OFF T.C. CUSTOMER, \tAND IF YOU DON'T WANT TO GET RIPPED OFF, OR \nIF YOU WANT DECENT SERVICE, DO NOT --I REPEAT-- DO NOT BUY FROM THIS \nCOMPANY. THE MONEY SAVED IS NOT WORTH THE ULCERS YOU WILL GET. PASS THIS \nWORD AROUND TO YOUR FRIENDS. \t\tCompanies like this do not deserve \nto stay in business, so let's not give them out hard earned money. \n\nDiscount Micro, Systems Powerhouse, and Gateway 2000 all have given me \nexcellent service and speed in the past. I highly recommend them to anyone.\n\n", "Giday netters! Just got a used Newlife 25 accelerator, with FPU, and i \nwas wondering about a few points. \n-Anyone know the current driver version for it??\n-Can it handle the 16-bit grayscale card, if i get the video option\n-Why would it be hating my hard drive?(can't use the accelerator and \n\thard drive at the same time). Do i need a new driver on my drive?\n\tWhat make?\n-Thanks,\n\tJason", "Can someone point me in the direction of any papers (not necessarily\nformally conducted studies) discussing how much traffic X apps generate\nfor the network, particularly in comparison with curses-bases apps \nover telnet? Also, does an X server typically buffer up user keyboard\ninput a line at a time? Can the X client control this, asking for\nkeystrokes immediately? Thanks in advance for any feedback!\n", "\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n\tI have been using DoubleDisk Gold for a little more than a month on\na 486DX 33Mhz, 120MB Seagate drive, running DOS & Windows in 386 enhanced\nmode.\n\tI ran some tests and concluded that the speed of a DoubleDisk drive\nwith a drive read cache is about equal to the bare drive without a cache.\n\tI have no complaints about reliability. It was very easy to install.\nThe only problem I had was with Castle Wolfenstein 3-D. I assumed the game\nwas trying to bypass DOS disk access and moved the game to the non-compressed\nregion of the disk. Since then the game has never given me a problem. \nThere was never any damage to the DoubleDisk drive.\n\tCompression performance for the whole disk has held steady \naround 1.8:1. This is lower than expected but about 20% (size) of my files \nare compressed image files and some large zip files. \n\nIf you have any more specific questions let me know.\nDan\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nI bought it an have been happy with it. I use it on both MFM and IDE 40\nMB drives. I was using DoubleDisk before Gold came out. That is the\nsame product MSDOS 6.0 is shipping with. No problems with either\nproduct.\n", "The following is posted for a friend. Send replies to the address at\nthe end of the post please.\n\nAttention Zenith Z-248 owners!!! upgrade your 8 MHz AT-class machine to '386\nperformance with a genuine Zenith motherboard for a clone price! Motherboard\nand I/O card pop right in to your Z-248 case while keeping your existing\nvideo and disk controllers. \n\nZenith Z-386/25 motherboard featuring 16kb of 16-layer, posted-write cache\nusing 15 ns SRAM; 8 Mb of 70 ns DRAM included, accepts 20 Mb on motherboard\n(further RAM upgrades available via SuperSlots running at memory bus speeds;\n7 Expansion slots feature 4 Zenith 32-bit SuperSlots: autodetects 8/16/32-bit\nadapters; latest rev. of Z-300 setup/monitor ROMs, two serial ports, one\nparallel port, secondary fan for improved system cooling, Z-386 User's Guide,\nZ-386 Maintenance Guide and diagnostics disk included. $575 (includes\nS/H/insurance).\n\nReplies to: stann@aol.com\n\nReplies to me will be forwarded.\n\nThanks.....\n\nbrian", "Title says it all: I'm in need of a Truetype OEM character set font - ie\none that contains the line drawing and other characters in the PC \ncharacter set similar to those you get when running a text mode application.\n\nIf anyone could point me at such a thing, I'd be grateful.\n\n[The only OEM fonts included with Windows are not Truetype.]\n\nRegards,\n", "I have just a few quick questions. Does anyone here have a 486 DLC\nsystem? (a Cyrix 486 DX) Any problems with it? \nSecond, how much should a Cyric 486DLC-33 motherboard (with\nno RAM) run me? \n3rd...Should a total amatuer (like myslef) be able to perform\na motherboard swap without the aid of a technician, or is it\nbeyond hope?\n4th...I hear that some (if not all) hard drives may require reformatting\nif you switch them to another computer (or motherboard as the case may\nbe). Is there any truth to this?", "I have two questions:\n\n1) I have been having troubles with my Wordperfect for Windows.\n When I try to select and change fonts, etc. some of the text\n disappears. I tried to center two lines once, and the second\n line disappeared. I can not find the error, and I do not\n know how to correct it.\n\n2) Is this the right newsgroup? Where should I go?\n\nE-mail prefered...\n _____\nWho else is still waiting for \"Naked Gun Part (Pi) | | \"", "\nThe 68070 is a variation of the 68010 that was done a few years ago by\nthe European partners of Motorola. It has some integrated I/O controllers\nand half a MMU, but otherwise it's a 68010. Think of it the same as\nthe 8086 and 80186 were.\n\n\t\tBurkhard Neidecker-Lutz", "I have a Roberto Clemente 1969 Topps baseball card for sale, in near-mint\ncondition (really as close to mint condition as you can get). It lists for\n$55 in my most recent baseball card pricelist for May. I am offering it for\n$50 and I'll pay the certified postage to ship it to you.", "Hi, there,\n I'm trying to build X11R5 mit core distribution on a SparcStation running\nSunOS 4.1.1. The only thing I change is the ProjectRoot in site.def. When the\n\"make World\" process goes to \"cc -o xdm ...\", I get the following error:\n\nld: Undefined symbol\n __C0095A2A\n*** Error code 2\n\nAnd the process continues to finish. Does anybody know what's wrong? Thanx for\nany info.", "Does anyone have some information on the relative fraction of the final\ncost of each component in an average hard drive? For instance, I'm pretty\nsure the heads and the platters are the most expensive parts, with the\nassembly costs running a close third. Cost of the electronics is likely\nin the noise.\n Any hard numbers ($$ or percentage)? Thanks.\n\n\n+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+\n+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+", "Misc. Items for sale:\n\n\nMount Plate: Sony Model CPM-203P, mounting plate for Sony portable CD players\nfor Portable: plugs into car lighter, snaps onto the bottom of any Sony\nCD Player: Portable CD player, perfect condition. Will also throw in a \n\t cassette adapter in SO SO condition.\n\t Paid $45...............Asking $30.\n\nCar Speakers:\tSherwood 5 1/4\" two way car speakers, in car for 7 months,\n5 1/4 inch:\texcellent condition, Paid $65............Asking $40.\n\n4 inch:\t Factory Speakers from Toyota excellent condition Asking $20.\n\n\nNintendo: Nintendo Game Boy, Light Boy, Tetris, Super Mario Land, \nGameboy: NFL Football, Castlevania Adventure, Hyper Lode Runner, 4 years\n+ games: old\tall in working condition, Asking $70.\nAccessories:\n\n\nWhole Internet:\tThe Whole Internet: User's Guide and Catalog by ED Krol,\nbook:\t\tguide to using the internet, where to fing information and \n\t\tresources. Paid $30..........Asking $20.\n\nMicroSoft: Never Used, came with my computer, Asking $30.\nVisual Basic:\n\nMicroSoft: \t Came with my computer, never used, Asking $100.\nWord for Windows:\n\n\n\t\t\t\t\tThanks,", "Hi! I was wondering if anyone out there could point me to where I can\nget the VESA specifications or any relevant books on this subject.\n\nRegards\nJimmy\n", "\n\nOk, so your a HAM. Well, tune in 10.7Mhz or 455Khz. These numbers sound \nlike some you have herd before? Thats right, you guessed it, they are \ncommon IF numbers. Every Super-Het receiver has a local oscillator(s)\nwhich generates an IF. This is what your detector detector is detecting (the\nlocal oscillator). ", "\nHave you gotten an answer yet? Using your variables, this is what I would do:\n\txterm -T \"$HOST - $LOGNAME\" -n \"$HOST\"\n", ": There are chips which perform the voice compression/expansion. They can't\n: be expensive, because they exist in many phones connected to PBXs or on the\n: PBX line cards, as well as in a lot of equipment which compresses\n: voice-grade circuits to save the cost of long-distance, leased T1s or\n: satellite circuits.\n\n: I can't remember the generic term for these chips. My impression is that\n: this was a big deal 10 years ago, but circuits have gotten so cheap that\n: it isn't done much now.\n\nCodecs. They have to get about 6:1 compression on 8 bit samples to squeeze\nthem down v32bis. I played around with the lossless 'shorten' program\nlast night, but it only managed 2.5:1. I've got some specimen CELP code\nbut it's not obvious that it runs in real time; I think it's just proof-of-\nconcept code, and I have some mucking about with file formats to do before\nI can put my own sample through it.\n\nLooks like the current option is to use a voice-mail modem with built-in\nDSP chip to do this in hardware. That means two modems for a system,\nputting the cost at $600 upwards. Ouch. Maybe soon we'll be able to\ndo it in software on high-powered games consoles - isn't the 3DO an\nAcorn RISC machine inside? That cpu runs like shit off a shovel... and\nwill be nicely mass-market too.", "\nPretty high frequency for one chip...\n\n\nYes and no. I would use the FM transmitter chip from Motorola (Linear and \nInterface Databook), a stable cristal oscillator and a mixer (e.g. SBL-1 from \nmini circuits lab). Everything is done in the FM chip and then mixed up with \nthe oscillator frequency. Just have a look at the ARRL Handbook. There are lots \nof ideas in there about oscillators and mixing. I don't think, there are single \nchip designs for such high frequencies yet.\n\n\nCheers Robert HB9NBY", "I have several people sharing my machine and would like to set up separate\nenvironments under Windows for each of them. Is there some way of setting\nthings up separate desktops/directories for each of them? Ideally,\nI'd like totally separate virtual machines. I'd be willing to settle for\nless, and may end up having batch files that copy .ini files around\ndepending on who wants to use the machine.", "\nIn your menu definition, put:\n\n \"Quit TWM\" f.function \"Execute and Quit\"\n\nThen define:\n\nFunction \"Execute and Quit\" {\n !\"some_program\"\n f.quit\n}\n\n-- \nBarry Margolin\nSystem Manager, Thinking Machines Corp.", "\n\nBefore I even think about getting this, is it going to be posted to \ncomp.sources.x at any time in the near future? \n\nGreg.\n", "Help....\n\nI need to implement COM3 and COM4 on a board that I'm designing and I'm\nfinding it dificult to track down a definition (hardware that is) of COM3\nand COM4.\n\nI have the IO adresses and the fact that COM3 shares IRQ4 with COM1 and COM4\nshares IRQ3 with COM2, except exactly how this IRQ sharing is done is not\nclear especially if the existing COM1/2 does not allow IRQ sharing. Does the\nstandard??? allow for a different IRQ to be used and if so how.\n\nPlease answer by email to :-\n\n neil@stone.oz.au\n\nthanks in advance", "You CAN print to a file from an HP (or any other printer). Just go into\nthe Printers section of your Control Panel. Select the printer you want\nto re-direct to a file, and click on Connect. Then choose :FILE as the\nport to connect the printer to.\n\nWhen you print from any application to that printer, Windows will prompt\nyou for a file name for the file into which you want to capture the\nprintout.\n\nIt's pretty easy.\n\nGood luck!\n", "\nWFWG does use NDIS but it cooperates well with the NDIS shim for ODI.\n(I've heard that it is as fast as NDIS direct)\n \n\nThe additional TSR load is minimal. I think I eat another 20K total.\nThis is worth it to me since it allows me to get to my Windows NT \nbox. Novell hasn't released a decent NT Novell client yet so I share\nthrough my WFWG box. ", "\nHmm... now where was that ad for the combination radio/hand cranked\ngenerator/flashlight/siren I saw? :-)\n\n[function generator has a 50mV offset, and the amplitude's too high]\n\n\nSure, you've already got the right idea.\n\nIgnoring the 50 ohm internal resistance of the generator for a second, just\nrun it into, say, a voltage divider made of 990 ohms in series with 10\nohms. This new circuit is the Thevenin equivalent of one that puts out\n1/100 of the original voltage, and has an output impedence of negligibly\nless than 10 ohms. You may want to monkey with the values a little\ndepending on whether you care more about the _exact_ dividing ratio or\nthe availability of parts.\n\nHows that sound?\n\n\t\t\t\t\t---Joel Kolstad", "Note that if you get the external CD300 for your Centris or Q800 you will\nmiss out on the sound mixing feature unless you are willing to run a wire\nfrom the motherboard sound input connector to the stereo output on the CD. \nConnecting to the sound input port on the back of the computer won't do\nunless you can live with mono.\n", "I have a question for y'all:\n\nI'm looking at an ad for the new 3.5\" FAST SCSI-2 drives from Micropolis\nin the June, 1993, MacWorld. (I have seen similar ads for the IDE versions\nin IBM PC magazines)\n\nWell, the ad says that all three drives have a FAST SCSI-2 interface,\nbut then it says that the DTR rate for each drive is 5 megabytes/second,\n*max*.\n\nHow can this be? I thought that if a drive was to be FAST SCSI-2 it\nhad to have a DTR of 10megs a second?\n\n(I am assuming the 5megs/sec claim by Micropolis is from the 512k cache.\nI admit that I would be very impressed if the drive can *read/write* data\nat 5megs a second!)", "I have a CASIO B.O.S.S. SF-9500 Digital Dairy/organizer for sale.\nThe unit has 64 kb with the expansion card slot. Very good condition.\nAsking $110.00 plus shipping.", "CDs for sale shipping is included\n\nBarcelona Gold\t\tFreddie Mercury, Tevin Campbell, En Vogue\n\t\t\tINXS, Madonna, Eric Clapton, Sarah Brightman\n\t\t\t($9.00)\n\nWayne's World\t\tQueen, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Alice Cooper\n\t\t\tEric Clapton\n\t\t\t($9.00)\n\nExtreme II\t\tPronograffitti\n\t\t\t($9.00)\n\nSaturday Night Live Band\tLive from New York\n\t\t\t($7.00)\n\nHarry Connick, JR.\tBlue Light\t\t\t*Sold*\n\t\t\t(just open, $10.00)\n\nDances with Woives\t($9.00)\t\t\t\t*Sold*\n\nHandel\t\t\tClassical \t($ 6.00)\t*Sold*\n\n\nPlease send your reply to koutd@hirama.hiram.edu\nPackage deal is welcome.", "\nWhoa. Think twice, now, unless you want the same standards applied to\nhollowpoints...\n-- ", "Does any one know of a decent quality library of routines for\nperforming 3D graphics modelling on the PC?\n\nIdeally the routines would be embeded in our application program.\n\nRequirements (wish list):\n- flat surface modelling (simple phong shading optional)\n- ability to plot hidden-line drawings\n- Texture mapping -- both procedural and bit map\n- modeling light sources (local, distant, and spot lights)\n- Ray-tracing\n- Radiosity (optional)\n\nAny comments would be appreciated.\n\nJohn Chinnick -- jchinnic@mach1.wlu.ca\nphone : (519) 888-9666", "\nOr read fixes 9, 10, and 11 to the MIT distribution. This is a known \nproblem - just apply those fixes and set SunPost411FCSLd to YES and \nOSTeenyVersion in mit/config/sun.cf to 3.\n\nIn fix-09:\n\nIn fix-10:\n\nIn fix-11:", "\nHe's right ya know. I've helped to install Dos 6 on about 4 computers now,\nmine included. On one, he bought the Stacker to Doublespace converter,\nand it worked fine (rather, he sent in the coupon for the converter).\n\nIn other cases, I've run the doublespace installation without a problem\nwhen compressing a new drive, compressing free space, or whatever else.\nSeems to work for me.\n\n\nWell, I ran the normal SETUP thing and it worked fine for whatever that's\nworth.\n\n\nCouldn't agree more. On my 486-50 I don't miss the speed. It's still\nfaster than a normal disk read would be. As for the less compression,\nI've sacrificed that in favor of the convenience of having the dblspace.bin\nload before anything else. With Stacker, any changes to your config.sys\nor autoexec.bat meant rebooting twice so it could update those.\n\nPersonally, I'm waiting for Stacker 4.0 to come out and implement those\nhooks and stuff. Plus, the DEFRAG that comes with DOS is okay, but I\nmuch prefer COMPRESS from PC-TOOLS for sheer bells and whistles. Plus,\ndefrag is sooooo sloooow on a dblspace drive.\n\n\nDitto.", ": ==============================================================================\n: Could someone please tell me the Best FTP'able viewer available for MSDOS\n: I am running a 486 33mhz with SVGA monitor.\n: I need to look at gifs mainly and it would be advantageous if it ran\n: under windows...........thanks\n\nFTP to wuarchive.wustl.edu,\nchange into mirrors/msdos/graphics\nget \"grfwk61t.zip\"\nThis is the DOS version of Graphic Workshop. There is a Windows version which\nyou could probably find in the mirrors/msdos/windows3 directory but I don't \nknow what the file name is. \n\n-- ", "I have two Motif Widgets. I would like to control one of them via the\nkeyboard and the other with the mouse. I set the keyboard focus on the first\nwidget, but as soon as I click the mouse on the second one, I lose the\nkeyboard focus on the first one. \n\nCould some kind soul show me how to do this?\n\nThanks", "Radio Shack has canceled their \"Battery of the Month\" Club. Does \nanyone know why? \n\nThey say they'll honor existing cards in customer hands, but no new\ncards will be issued.", "\nxgif is the grandfather of XV.\n\n-- ", "\n\nI got two very similar sounding boards for dirt cheap, too. Their Assy\nnumbers were not 4000-series, but your description fits otherwise. They\nare 3Com 3C505's aka Etherlink Plus cards. Check out ftp.3com.com, there\nare drivers and diagnostic programs for just about any and all 3Com\ncards. I concluded that my card was the 505 after I ran their diagnostic\nprogram for 3C505 succesfully (\"..passes with flying colours\") :)\n\nAnybody know of packet drivers for these cards under OS/2..?\n", "I have uploaded the most recent Windows drivers for the Cirrus GD5426 \nchip based display cards to the uploads directory at ftp.cica.indiana.edu\n (file is 5426dr13.zip). They're very recent, I downloaded them from the \nCirrus BBS (570-226-2365) last night. If you are unable to get them there, \nemail me and maybe I can upload them to some other sites as well. \nI have a local bus based card (VL24 Bitblaster from Micron) but I think \nthe drivers work with ISA cards (or at least includes drivers for them).\n\nI found the new drivers to be a significant improvement over the 1.2 version, \nimproving my graphic winmarks (v3.11) by about 2 million (7.77 to 9.88) \nalthough this could be the result of intentional benchmark cheating on \nCirrus's part but I don't think so.\n\nFrom Steve Gibson's (columnist for Info World) graphic card comparisons \n(also found at the cica ftp site under the name winadv.zip) I extracted the \nfollowing for the sake of comparison:\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tWintach\n \t\tWinbn3.11\tWord\tSprsht\tCad\tPaint\tOverall\nSteve's system:\n486/33 VLB:\nATI Graphics Ultra Pro\t 9.33\t\t10.34\t 20.78\t8.28\t14.90\t 13.58\n\nmy system -\n486sx/33 VLB:\nVL24 Bitblaster\t\t 9.88\t\t 8.65\t 11.71\t18.84\t15.40\t 13.65\n\n\nIts no Viper, but I think its a hell of a deal at about a third of the cost of \nthe ATI card and when compared to the other cards included in Gibson's review.\n\nMicron system owner's, I would be interested to hear your opinions on the \nDTC 2270VL local bus disk controller. My system came with a Maxtor 7120 \ndrive (120 MB) and at first was only giving me disk winmarks of about 16 Kb/s, \nI am now at 22 Kb/s. Is this about as good as it gets? I can't get a Norton's\nsysinfo disk reading because the contoller intercepts the calls, at \nleast that was what the program said.\n", "I'm trying to figure out how to operate a Pioneer Laserdisc LD-1000 that I bought at a surplus store. It is reputedly from some kind of computerised viewing\nand/or ordering system. THere is what may be an HPIB connector on the back. When\nI power it up, the front panel power light comes on, but no activity, and the\ndoor doesn't open. Anyone have any experience with this unit or any ideas on how\nto obtain documentation?\n", "I need the file format for cc:Mail file formats - it seems to be PCX-based,\nbut with a twist: only the first page of a multi-page fax will come out\nreadable. The other pages disappear. The format seems to be 'proprietary'.\n\nAnybody got any clues? I have to give my email FAXes to my secretary in\norder to get 'em unscrambled. I want a filter from cc:Mail to .p[nb]m.\n\nCome to think of it, p[nb]m to cc:Mail would be nice too.", "Could someone please tell me if the 486SLC and 486SLC2 processors\nIBM is putting in their Thinkpad 700's and other PC's is a REAL\n486 with a math coprocessor or if it is really some Kludge that\nshould not be called a 486 at all?\n\nThanks,\nEric", " Just as a not of possible interest on this subject ..\nIt is my understanding that exploding televisions were a major cause of\ndomestic accidents in the Soviet Union in past years!\n \n", "\n\nNo, he's not missing anything. You're right that some models of the 650 ship in\nthe USA without FPU or Ethernet. Per Ejeklint is also right -- *all*, I repeat,\n*ALL* Centris 650's sold here in New Zealand and, I assume, Europe have the FPU\nand Ethernet.", "I do not have this type of problem, but at one point an Apple rep\ntold me that Duo's \"System Enabler\" file version 1.0.1 fixes some\nkind of sleep-related problem. You may want to investigate this...", "I remember seeing something in the X distribution mentioning support\nfor a Tektronix terminal in an X server. Is this accurate? \n-- \nmike@hopper.acs.virginia.edu ", "WANTED:\n \nCannon's Xapshot digital camera. I'd be interested in any other\nmakes, but the Xapshot is the only one I'm familiar with.\nI need one with a composite output and approx. 50 pictures per\ndisk capability.\n \nIf you have one for sale, or if you know of a cheap place to order one,\nplease leave me Email at lgibb@nyx.cs.du.edu", "Should come with visual basic. New version is vbrun200.dll.\nThx Dave L\n\n", "Hello.\n\n Is it possible to know minimize program manager when starting an\n application and to restore it when the application is ended ?\n If possible, please tell me how to do it !\n\n", "\nSure,\n\nEdmund Scientific Company\n101 E. Glouchester Pike\nBarrington, NJ, 08007-1380\n(609) 573-6250\n\nThe card is on page 15 of the last catalog I got. The cost ranges\nfrom $19.00US to $80.00US, depending on size and range of wavelengths\nthe card responds to.", "Does anyone know of a non-word password generator program\nfor PC's?? i.e. it will produce a nonsense word but still\nbe pronouncible. e.g. lisgollan\n\nWanted to \"force\" users to adopt more secure passwords,\nbut still be memorable!\n\nThanks - George Bolt", "The OTIS Project presents...\n\n SYNERGY: Revolt \n\t...the first in a continuing series of collaborative\n\tart initiatives designed to exploit the binarity\n\tof the infosphere. This series of diversely \n\tstructured art-manipulation projects will attempt\n\tto stretch across network boundries encouraging\n\tuse of electronic mail, fax, video, photography,\n\tscanned \"conventional\" art and even sound to \n\tcreate multi-artist \"still\" visuals in GIF and \n\tJPG formats. Visualists from all technical levels\n\tare welcome. \n\n\tREVOLT will be structured simply. There will be \n\tthree stages of production. The first stage will\n\tconsist of all participants creating one still \n\twork as a \"starter\" piece that two other partici-\n\tpants will, in turn, manipulate. All first stage\n\t\"base\" images are due by Sunday, May 23rd, 1993, \n\tmidnight Central Daylight Time. \n\n\tStage two will begin on May 24th. All images will \n\tbe sent to another (arbitrarily chosen) participant\n\tfor them to do manipulations on in anyway they see \n\tfit. For purely digital artists, this may consist\n\tof filtering the image through their favorite paint\n\tprogram. For \"analog\" artists, this may well be\n\tprinting a hardcopy of the image and adding their\n\town part with pen, pencil or white-out then scan-\n\tning in the image again to be transferred on to \n\tthe third-stage artist. All second-stage works\n\tare due by midnight on Sunday, May 30th.\n\n\tStage three is the finishing stage and will begin\n\ton May 31st. All artists will do what they think \n\tit takes to finish up the image they've been given\n\tusing whatever technique they see as worthy. \n\tThese images will be due on June 6th, midnight.\n\n\tAll involved will participate in each stage of\n\tcreation.\n\n\t-----------------------------------------------------------\n\tTo join, send email/mail with the following info:\n\n\tName:\n\temail address:\n\tmail address:\n\tscanner access? (color/grey/none)\n\tprinter access? (laser/postscript/inkjet/color/dot)\n\tcomputer access? (mac/ibm-pc/sun/amiga/atari/NeXT/other)\n\toutput format?\t (tiff/targa/gif/jpeg/pict/postscript/fax\n\t\t /photocopy/pcx/windows bitmap)\n\tgraphics level? (8bit/16bit/24bit/?)\n\tftp access?\n\ttime limitations?\n\n\tAddress the information to:\n\n\temail: mad-celt@cwis.unomaha.edu (Andrew Booth, project manager)\n\t (include \"REVOLT\" in the subject line)\n\tmail: The OTIS Project\n\t SYNERGY: Revolt\n\t PO BX 241113\n\t Omaha, NE 68124-1113\t\n\n\t---------------------------------------------------------\t\n\tRemember, all STARTER images are due on Sunday, May 23rd. \n\tDeposit them at either of these FTP sites:\n\n\tsunsite.unc.edu (/pub/multimedia/pictures/OTIS/Incoming)\n\tor\n\t141.214.4.135 (projects/otis/incoming)\n\t\tOR\n\t...send uuencoded images to us via email...\n\t\tOR\n\t...send hardcopies to address above...\n\t\tOR\n\t...arrange FAX exchange.\n\n\tIf you don't get your STARTER image in, you won't be\n\table to participate until SYNERGY Phase II (in mid-June).\n\t---------------------------------------------------------\n\n\tWe will do our best to accomodate/facilitate image exchange\n\tfor the \"technologically impaired\". If you don't have \n\taccess to a scanner, but need one, we'll try to help.\n\tIf you need an image printed out and sent to you, let\n\tus know (send an SASE if you anticipate this).\n\n\tADDITIONAL INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON THE FOLLOWING:\n\t- suggestions for use of \"uncommon\" mediums\n\t (such as video stills, electronic imaging and sound)\n\t- FAX availability times\n\t- \"copyright\" considerations (appropriation)\n\t- image conversion\n\t- the OTIS Project in general\n", "At work we have a small appletalk network with 3 macs and couple of printers.\nWe also have a PC that has some specialized accounting software that we would \nlike to operate from any of the macs. We have Soft PC, and I have found that the\nsoftware works just fine under it, but I would like to have all of the data\nfor the program reside at one place (the PC hard disk). So my question for you\nis(actually questions)\n\n 1) is there a board for the PC that will allow you to hook into an appletalk\n network?\n\n 2) if #1 is possible, is there any software/hardware combination that will \n allow me to mount the PC hard disk as a networked disk on the macs so I\n can use Soft PC to run the application?\n\n 3) if #1 or #2 is impossible, is there any other way to accomplish what I am\n after?\n\n", "Updated April 27, 1993. \n\nMost comics here are priced at 40% below the Overstreet Price Guide, all\ncomics are in near mint to mint condition.\n\nTITLE PRICE \n--------------------------------------------------------------\nAlpha Flight 13 (Wolverine appears) \t$ 7.20\n\t 50 (Double Size)\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t 51 (Jim Lee's first work at Marvel)\t$ 5.40\nAmazing Spider-Man 267 (Peter David script, Human Torch)$ 2.10\n 275 (r/origin Spiderman, Hobgoblin) $ 7.20\n 276 (Hobgoblin appears) $ 5.40\n 284 (Punisher, Hobgoblin appear) $ 5.40\n 293 (Kraven appears) $ 4.80 \n 294 (Kraven appears) $ 4.80\n 306 (Todd McFarlane) $ 6.00\n 312 (Hobgoblin vs Green Goblin) $10.80\n 315 (Venom appears) $ 9.00\n\t\t320 (Todd McFarlane art)\t\t$ 4.20\n\t\t321 (Todd McFarlane art)\t\t$ 4.20\n 323 (Silver Sable, Paladin, C. America) $ 4.20\n\t\t324 (Sabretooth appears)\t\t$ 7.20\n 325 (Red Skull, Captain America) $ 4.20\n 328 (Hulk appears, last McFarlane) $ 4.40\n 330 (Punisher appears) $ 2.40\n 331 (Punisher appears) $ 2.40\n 337 (Hobgoblin appears) $ 2.10\n\t\t338\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.40\n\t\t342\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.40\n\t\t343\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.40\n 344 (Intro Cletus Kassady - Carnage) $ 4.20\n\t\t346 (Venom appears)\t\t\t$ 4.20\n\t\t347 (Venom appears)\t\t\t$ 4.20\n\t\t348\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.20\n\t\t349\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.20\n\t\t350 (52 pages)\t\t\t\t$ 1.80\n\t\t351\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.20\n\t\t352\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.20\n\t\t353\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.20\n\t\t354\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.20\n\t\t355 (Punisher appears)\t\t\t$ 1.20\n\t\t356 (Punisher appears)\t\t\t$ 1.20\n\t\t357 (Punisher appears)\t\t\t$ 1.20\n\t\t358 (Punisher appears)\t\t\t$ 1.20\n\t\t365 (1st App Spider-Man 2099, Holo-c)\t$ 3.60\n Annual 24 $ 2.10\n Annual 25 (1st solo Venom story) $ 4.20\n Annual 26 (New Warriors, Venom) $ 3.00\nArcher and Armstrong 1 (Frank Miller/Smith/Layton)\t$ 9.00\n\t\t 9 \t\t\t\t\t$ 2.50 \n\t\t 10\t\t\t\t\t$ 2.50\nAvengers 272 (Alpha Flight appears)\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t 300 (68 Pages, new team)\t\t\t$ 1.50\n\t 306\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t 324 (Alpha Flight appears)\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t 329 (New team)\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t Annual 15\t\t\t\t\t$ 2.10\n\t Annual 18\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.80\n\t Annual 19\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.50\nBatman Legends of the Dark Knight 1 (blue cover) $ 3.30\n\t\t\t\t 3 \t\t\t$ 1.30\nBatman Shadow of the Bat 1 (still in polybag) $ 5.00\nBatman Versus Predator 1 (Prestige edition, Predator)\t$ 4.20\n\t\t 1 (Prestige edition, Batman)\t$ 4.20\nBatman Year One (trade paperback, 1st printing) $ 8.40\nBloodshot 1 (Chromium cover, BWSmith Cover/Poster)\t$ 7.00\n\t 3\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 2.50\n\t 4\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 2.50\n\t 5\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 2.50\nDaredevil 131 (Origin Bullseye) $16.00\n 138 (Ghost Rider, Death's Head early app) $11.00\n 158 (Frank Miller art begins) $40.00\n 159 (Deathstalker appears, Frank Miller art) $20.00\n 169 (Elektra 2nd appearance, Bullseye) $ 4.50\n 170 (Bullseye, Kingpin appear) $ 3.00\n 182 (Punnisher appears, Frank Miller art) $ 6.60\n 183 (Punnisher appears, Frank Miller art) $ 6.60\n 184 (Punnisher appears, Frank Miller art) $ 6.60\n 196 (Wolverine appears) $ 7.20\nDarkhawk 2 (Spider-Man and Hobgoblin appear) $ 6.00\nDark Horse Presents 1 (1st app Concrete, 1st printing)\t$ 7.20\n\t\t 5 (Concrete appears)\t\t$ 2.40\n\t\t 25 \t\t\t\t\t$ 1.80\n\t\t 32 (Annual)\t\t\t\t$ 2.40\n\t\t 37 \t\t\t\t\t$ 1.20\n\t\t 42 (Aliens appear)\t\t\t$ 3.00\nDazzler 1 (X-Men appear)\t\t\t\t$ 1.20\n\t40\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t41\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t42 (Beast appears)\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\nDeathlok 1 $ 2.40\nDeathstroke the Terminator 1 (1st printing) $ 4.80\n 2 $ 3.00\nDefenders 125 (Intro New Defenders) $ 1.80\n\t 152 (Double size, X-Factor appears)\t\t$ 2.00\nDemon 13 (Lobo appears)\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n 14 (Lobo appears)\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n 15 (Lobo appears)\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\nEternal Warrior 1 (Miller cover)\t\t\t$11.00\n\t\t2 \t\t\t\t\t$ 7.00\n\t\t9\t\t\t\t\t$ 2.50\n\t\t10\t\t\t\t\t$ 2.50\n\t\t11\t\t\t\t\t$ 2.50\nFantastic Four 112 (Hulk vs. The Thing) $25.00\n\t 337 (Simonson art begins)\t\t$ 1.00\n\t 338 (Simonson art)\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t 339 (Simonsom art)\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t 344 (Simonson art)\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t 345 (Simonson art)\t\t\t$ 1.00\n 347 (Art Adams cover art, Wolverine) $ 3.00\n 348 (Ghost Rider/Wolverine appear) $ 1.80\n 349 (Ghost Rider/Wolverine appear) $ 1.80\n 350 (52 pages) $ 1.50\n\t 351 \t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t 352 (Simonson art)\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t 353 (Simonson art)\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t 354 (Simonson art)\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t 355 \t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t 356 (Fantastic Four vs New Warriors)\t$ 1.00\n 358 (80 page 30th anniversary issue) $ 2.00 \n\t 359\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t 360\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t 361\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t 362\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t Annual 24\t\t\t\t$ 1.20\nFlash 27\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n 28\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n 48\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n 50\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n 53 (Superman/Flash race)\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\nGhost Rider 1 (May 1990, Origin, Double Size)\t\t$15.00\n\t 15 (Glow in the dark cover, 1st print)\t$ 5.40\n\t 16 (Spider-man/Hobgoblin cover and story) $ 2.10\n 17 (Spider-man/Hobgoblin cover and story) $ 2.10\nGhost Rider and Cable 1\t(Sam Keith cover)\t\t$ 4.00\nGhost Rider and Captain America: Fear\t\t\t$ 5.00\nGuardians of the Galaxy 25 (Prism foil cover) $ 2.50\nHarbinger 10 (1st Appearance H.A.R.D. Corps)\t\t$ 7.00\n\t 16\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 3.00\n\t 17\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 2.50\n\t 18\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 2.50\nH.A.R.D. Corps 1 \t\t\t\t\t$ 5.00\n\t 6 \t\t\t\t\t$ 2.50\n\t 7\t\t\t\t\t$ 2.50\nHavok and Wolvreine: Meltdown 1\t\t\t\t$ 3.00\nIncredible Hulk 324 (1st app Grey Hulk since #1, 1962)\t$ 6.00\n 327 $ 1.20\n\t\t330 (1st McFarlane issue)\t\t$15.00\n\t\t331 (Grey Hulk series begins)\t\t$ 9.60\n 376 (Keown art, Grey vs Green Hulk) $ 3.60\n 377 (1st all new hulk, 1st prnt, Keown) $12.00\n 385 (Keown c/a) $ 2.40\n 388 (Keown c/a) $ 2.40\n 389 (Keown c/a) $ 2.40\n 390 (Keown c/a) $ 2.40\n\t\t392 (Keown c/a)\t\t\t\t$ 2.40\n\t\t393 (Green foil stamped cover, Keown)\t$ 4.80\nInfinity Gauntlet 1 (Perez painted cover. Thanos) $ 6.00\n 2 (Thanos) $ 3.60\n 3 (Thanos) $ 2.40\nJustice League America 46\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 47\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 50\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 52\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\nJustice League Quarterly 1\t\t\t\t$ 2.10\nJustice Society of America 1 (April 1991)\t\t$ 1.00\nKamandi 1 (Origin Kamandi, Kirby art) $25.00\n 2 (Kirby art) $15.00\n 3 (Kirby art) $ 9.00\n 7 (Kirby art) $ 5.00\nLast Generation 1 $ 2.10\nMagnus Robot Fighter 21 (New direction & logo begins)\t$ 5.00\n\t\t 23\t\t\t\t\t$ 3.00\n\t\t 24\t\t\t\t\t$ 2.50\nMarc Spector Moon Knight 25 (Ghost Rider appears)\t$ 2.10\nMarvel Comics Presents 1 (Wolverine, Silver Surfer) $ 6.00\n\t\t 2 (Wolverine, Master of KungFu)\t$ 3.00\n\t\t 3 (Wolverine, Master of KungFu)\t$ 3.00\n\t\t 4 (Wolverine, Master of KungFu)\t$ 3.00\n\t\t 5 (Wolverine, Daredevil)\t\t$ 3.00\n\t\t 6 (Wolverine, Hulk)\t\t$ 2.40\n\t\t 7 (Wolverine, Submariner)\t$ 2.40\n\t\t 10 (Wolverine, Man-Thing)\t$ 2.40\n\t\t 11 (Man-Thing, Ant-Man)\t\t$ 1.20\n\t\t 12 (Man-Thing, Colossus)\t\t$ 1.20\n\t\t 13 (Black Panther, Shanna)\t$ 1.20\n 14 (Black Panther, Nomad) $ 1.20\n\t\t 17 (Ron Lim art, Black Panther)\t$ 1.20\n\t\t 18 (Ron Lim art, Black Panther)\t$ 1.20\n\t\t 19 (Rob Liefeld art, Cyclops)\t$ 1.20\n\t\t 20 (Ron Lim art, Black Panther)\t$ 1.20\n\t\t 21 (Ron Lim art, Black Panther)\t$ 1.20\n\t\t 22 (Ron Lim art, Black Panther)\t$ 1.20\n 25 (Nth Man, Havok, Blk Panther) $ 1.20\n\t\t 26 (Black Panther, Havok, Hulk)\t$ 1.20\n\t\t 27 (Black Panther, Havok)\t$ 1.20\n\t\t 28 (Black Panther, Havok)\t$ 1.20\n\t\t 29 (Black Panther, Havok)\t$ 1.20\n\t\t 30 (Black Panther, Havok)\t$ 1.20\n\t\t 31 (Erik Larsen, Excalibur)\t$ 1.20\n\t\t 42 (Wolverine)\t\t\t$ 1.80\n 52 (Rob Liefeld, Wolverine) $ 1.80\n 60 (Wolverine, Hulk) $ 3.60\n 62 (Jackson Guice, Deathlok) $ 4.80\n 63 (Poison, Thor, Scarlet Witch) $ 2.40\n 64 (Mark Texiera, Ghost Rider) $ 2.70 \n 65 (Mark Texiera, Ghost Rider) $ 2.70\n 66 (Mark Texiera, Ghost Rider) $ 2.70\n 67 (Mark Texiera, Ghost Rider) $ 2.70\n 72 (B.W.Smith, Weapon X) $ 4.80\n\t\t 73 (B.W.Smith, Weapon X)\t\t$ 2.40\n\t\t 75 (B.W.Smith, Weapon X)\t\t$ 1.80\n\t\t 76 (B.W.Smith, Weapon X)\t\t$ 1.80\n 77 (B.W.Smith, Weapon X,Dracula) $ 1.80\n\t\t 80 (B.W.Smith, Weapon X)\t\t$ 1.80\n\t\t 81 (B.W.Smith, Weapon X)\t\t$ 1.50\n 82 (B.W.Smith, Weapon X) $ 1.50\n 83 (B.W.Smith, Weapon X) $ 1.50\n 84 (B.W. Smith, Weapon X) $ 1.50\n 85 (1st Keith art and Jae Lee) $ 3.60\n\t\t 88 (Keith, Wolverine, Beast)\t$ 2.40\n\t\t 97 (Ghost Rider, Cable)\t\t$ 1.20\n\t\t 104 (Wolverine, Ghost Rider)\t$ 1.00\n 106 (Wolverine, Ghost Rider) $ 1.00\nMaxx 1 (Sam Keith) $ 3.00\nMetropol 1 (Ted McKeever) $ 3.00\nMighty Mouse 2\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t 4\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t 5\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t 6\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t 10\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\nMoon Knight 1 (1980)\t\t\t\t\t$ 2.60\n'Nam 6 $ 1.50\n 7 $ 1.50\n 52 (Frank Castle (Punisher)) $ 2.70\nNew Mutants 18 (Intro new Warlock, Magus) $ 5.40\n 88 (Rob Liefeld, 2nd Cable) $12.00\n 89 (Rob Liefeld, 3rd Cable) $ 9.00\n 90 (Rob Liefeld, Sabretooth appears) $ 7.20\n 91 (Rob Liefeld, Sabretooth appears) $ 7.20\n 93 (Rob Liefeld, Wolverine vs Cable) $ 9.00\n 94 (Rob Liefeld, Wolverine vs Cable) $ 9.00\n 98 (1st app Deadpool, Gideon, Domino) $ 7.20\n 100 (1st app X-Force) $ 5.40\n\t Annual 4 (Evolutionary War)\t\t\t$ 1.80\n\t Annual 5 (1st Liefeld art on New Mutants)\t$10.80\n\t Annual 6\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.20\n Annual 7 (2nd app X-Force) $ 7.20\n\t Summer Special 1 (Art Adams art)\t\t$ 1.80\nOlympians 1 (McFarlane) $ 2.40\nOmega Men 3 (1st appearance Lobo) $ 6.00\n 10 (1st full Lobo story) $ 6.00\n Annual 1 $ 1.00\n 2 $ 1.00\nPower Man & Iron Fist 78 (3rd appearance Sabretooth) $25.00\n 84 (4th appearance Sabretooth) $20.00\nPower Pack 27 (Wolverine and Sabretooth appear) $ 6.00\nPredator: Big Game 3 (Contains trading cards) $ 1.80\nPunisher 9 (Wilce Portacio) $ 6.60\nPunisher and Captain America: Blood and Glory 1\t\t$ 5.00\n\t\t\t\t\t 2 \t$ 5.00\n\t\t\t\t\t 3\t\t$ 5.00\nPunisher P.O.V 1 (Starlin script, Wrightson art) $ 5.00\n 2 (Starlin script, Wrightson art) $ 5.00\n 3 (Starlin script, Wrightson art) $ 5.00\nPunisher War Journal 16 (Jim Lee art)\t\t\t$ 3.00 \n 29 (Ghost Rider appears) $ 1.50\n 30 (Ghost Rider appears) $ 1.50\n 31 $ 1.10\n 32 $ 1.10\n 35 $ 1.10\n 36 $ 1.10\n 38 $ 1.10\n 39 $ 1.10\n 40 $ 1.10\nPunisher War Zone 1 (Die-cut cover) $ 2.50\n 2 $ 1.50\nRagman 1 (Pat Broderick, Origin Ragman) $ 3.00\nRocketeer Special Edition (Dave Stevens art, 1984)\t$ 6.00 \nShadowman 13\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 2.50\n\t 14\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 2.50\nSimpsons Comics and Stories 1 (Polybagged special ed.)\t$ 7.50\nSolar Man of the Atom 18\t\t\t\t$ 3.00\n\t\t 19\t\t\t\t$ 2.75\n\t\t 20\t\t\t\t$ 2.75\n\t\t 21\t\t\t\t$ 2.50\n\t\t 22\t\t\t\t$ 2.50\nSpectacular Spider-Man 81 (Punisher appears) $ 8.40\n 93 (Answer appears) $ 1.80\n 94 (Cloak and Dagger appear) $ 1.80\n 95 (Cloak and Dagger appear) $ 1.80\n 99 (Spot appears) $ 1.80\n 116 (Sabretooth appears) $ 3.00\n 117 (Sabretooth appears) $ 3.00\n 119 (Sabretooth appears) $ 3.00\n 124 (Dr. Octopus appears) $ 1.50\n 130 (Hobgoblin appears) $ 2.40\n 131 (Kraven appears) $ 3.60\n 132 (Kraven appears) $ 3.00\n 140 (Punisher appears) $ 1.80\n 142 (Punisher appears) $ 3.00\n 143 (Punisher appears) $ 3.00\n 147 (1st app New Hobgoblin) $12.00\n 152 (Origin Lobo Bros, Punisher) $ 1.20\n\t\t 157\t\t\t\t$ 1.20\n\t\t 158 (Spider-Man gets new powers)\t$ 7.20\n\t\t 159 (Cosmic Spider-Man appears)\t$ 4.80\n\t\t 160\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n 189 (1st ed Hologram, Hobgoblin) $ 4.80\n Annual 10 (McFarlane story) $ 1.50\nSpider-Man 1 (Gold edition, direct sale) $ 3.00\n 1 (Regular edition, green, unbagged) $ 3.00\n 5 (Lizard, Calypso appear, McFarlane) $ 2.40\n 6 (Hobgoblin, Ghost Rider appear) $ 3.60\n 7 (Hobgoblin, Ghost Rider appear) $ 3.60\n 13 (Black costume returns) $ 3.00\n 14 (Black costume, Morbius appear) $ 2.00\n 18 (Sinister Six, Hulk appear) $ 2.00\n 19 (Hulk, Deathlok appear) $ 2.00\n\t 20 \t\t\t\t\t\t$ 2.00\n\t 26 (Origin retold, hologram cover)\t\t$ 3.00\nStar Trek the Next Generation 1 (Feb 1988, DC mini) $ 6.00 \nStar Trek the Next Generation 1 (Oct 1989, DC comics) $ 5.40\n 2 $ 3.60\nStrange Adventures (dozens, but in varying high grades) ASK\nSwamp Thing 72 $ 1.00\n 73 (John Constantine appears) $ 1.00\n Annual 3 $ 1.20\nTales of the Teen Titans 44 (Deathstroke app/orogin) $ 4.80\nTerminator 1 (Dark Horse) $ 3.60\nTerminator: Secondary Objectives 1 $ 1.80\nTerminator 2 Judgement Day 1 $ 1.00\nThor 374 (Mutant Massacre, X-Factor, Sabretooth app) $ 4.80\n 429 (Ghost Rider appears)\t\t\t\t$ 1.80\n 430 (Ghost Rider appears)\t\t\t\t$ 1.80\nWarlock and the Infinity Watch 2 (Starlin scripts)\t$ 2.40\n\t\t\t 3\t\t\t$ 1.50\n 4 $ 1.40\n\t\t\t 5 \t\t\t$ 1.40\n\t\t\t 6\t\t\t$ 1.40\n 7 $ 1.10\n 8 $ 1.10\n 9 (Gamora vs Thanos) $ 1.10\nWeb of Spider-Man 2\t\t\t\t\t$ 4.20\n\t\t 3\t\t\t\t\t$ 4.20\n\t\t 4\t\t\t\t\t$ 3.00\n\t\t 5\t\t\t\t\t$ 3.00\n\t\t 8 (Thunder appears) $ 2.70\n 16 (Magma appears) $ 2.00\n 18 $ 2.00\n 20 $ 2.00\n 21 $ 2.00\n 30 (Origin Rose, Hobgoblin appears) $ 7.20\n\t\t 47 (Hobgoblin appears)\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 52\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 66 (Green Goblin as super-hero)\t$ 1.20\n\t\t 67 (Green Goblin as super-hero)\t$ 1.20\n\t\t 68 \t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 71 \t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 72 \t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 73\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 74\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 75\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 76\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 77\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 78\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 79\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 80\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 81\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 82\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 83\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 84 (Rose & Hobgoblin story)\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 85 (Rose & Hobgoblin story)\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 86 (Rose & Hobgoblin story)\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 87 (Rose & Hobgoblin story)\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t 90 (Hologram cover, polybagged)\t$ 3.60\n\t\t 91\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t\t Annual 3\t\t\t\t$ 1.75\nWerewolf by Night 33 (2nd appearance Moon Knight) $20.00\n 37 (Moon Knight appears) $ 5.00\nWolverine 10 (Before claws, 1st battle with Sabretooth)\t$14.40\n\t 41 (Sabretooth claims to be Wolverine's dad)\t$ 6.00\n\t 42 (Sabretooth proven not to be his dad)\t$ 3.00\n\t 43 (Sabretooth/Wolverine saga concludes)\t$ 2.40\nWolverine 1 (1982 mini-series, Miller art)\t\t$18.00\nWonder Woman 267 (Return of Animal Man) $13.00\n Annual 1 $ 1.75\n 2 $ 1.75\nX-Factor 47 $ 1.00\n 51 (Sabretooth appears) $ 3.00\n 52 (Sabretooth appears) $ 3.00\n 53 (Sabretooth appears) $ 3.00\n\t 57 \t\t\t\t\t\t$ 1.00\n\t 62 (X-Tinction Agenda, Jim Lee cover)\t\t$ 3.60\n\t 63 (Whilce Portacio art begins)\t\t$ 3.60\n 69 (Whilce Portacio art) $ 1.20\n 70 (Last \"Old Team\" issue) $ 1.20\n Annual 6 (New Warriors, X-Force appear) $ 1.30\nX-Force 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, X-Force card) $25.00\n 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, Shatterstar card) $15.00\n 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, Deadpool card) $15.00\n 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, Sunspot/Gideon) $15.00\n 1 (Bagged, Cable card) $ 3.60\nX-O Manowar 13\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 3.00\n 15\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 3.00\n\t 16\t\t\t\t\t\t$ 3.00\n\nAll comics are in near mint to mint condition, are bagged in shiny \npolypropylene bags, and backed with white acid free boards. Shipping is\n$1.50 for one book, $3.00 for more than one book, or free if you order \na large enough amount of stuff. I am willing to haggle.\n\nI have thousands and thousands of other comics, so please let me know what \nyou've been looking for, and maybe I can help. Some titles I have posted\nhere don't list every issue I have of that title, I tried to save space.\n\nI am willing to trade for other comics, computer equipment, video\nequipment, audio equipment, etc... Let me know what you want to trade!", "Less than 1/2 of mailorder price!\n\nI have three libraries, all on CD, which cost me over two thousand dollars\nmail order. They are all genuine, high quality EPS vector graphics (NOT just\nsome scans with a silly EPS wrapper!) They are:\n\n1. Totem Graphics color EPS library (about 1400 color EPS images).\n This costs a thousand bucks mailorder. I rate this clip art as\n high quality (much better than Dynamic Graphics clip art, SOTMC clip art,\n etc., in my opinion), but I rate both the 3G library and the C.A.R.\n library as higher. Totem's art is ALL color -- whereas most of the other's\n are B&W. It's the best all-color library out there, in my opinion.\n\n2. C.A.R. Graphics library (haven't counted how many images, but you can\n purchase the library on 48 floppies, to give you an idea of the size).\n This costs about 4 hundred bucks mailorder. I rate this clip art as\n very high quality, but it's only B&W.\n\n3. 3G Graphics library (very popular in all the Mac mags). This costs\n about 4 hundred bucks mailorder. I rate this clip art as very high quality\n (got some awards in one of the major Mac mags, forgot which). Some of\n the images are color, but most are B&W.\n\nFor what it's worth, all three of the CD's are saved in multiple file formats.\nThey are readable on Mac's and PC's. Additionally, Totem's will mount native-\nNeXT also, although the NeXT could just as easily mount either the Mac or PC\nfilesystems. I've personally tested the CD's on all three machines (I've owned\nall three machines, although I sold my NeXT a few months ago).\n\nAlso, in my opinion, the 3G and C.A.R. libraries are the best in the business\n(and I've seen lots). Also, Totem's is, in my opinion, the best all-color\nlibrary around, although I like 3G's color art better.\n\nI want $850 for everything. Can ship certified check C.O.D., as well as\nVISA/MC charge. If you pay by VISA/MC, I'll ship pre-paid in the continental U.S.\nIf I ship C.O.D., buyer pays freight and C.O.D. fee.\n\nReason for selling: No longer have DTP business.\n\nPlease respond via email or telephone, as I rarely check these news groups.\n\nNevin", "I am unable to get my Gateway 486DX2/66 to run Windows\nin 1280x1024. I ordered a 2M ATI Ultra Pro, and I'm pretty\nsure the 2M is really there because I *can* select\n1024x768x65536. But no matter what I do with the Flex program\nin the ATI's program group, 1280x1024 remains ghosted out.\nI have Windows 3.1, build 59 of the drivers, DOS 5.0. The\ndrivers were installed by Gateway, not by me, so perhaps there's\na file missing from the hard drive. It runs 1024x768 just fine.\n I did go into the Desktop window and select 1280x1024. Sometimes\nit refuses (ghosted out), other time it accepts it, but when I hit\nOK and re-enter Desktop, it's back to 1024x768. At no time does\nit unghost 1280x1024 in the main Flex window. Help!\n", "I built it on a rs6000 (my only Motif machine) works fine. I added some objects\ninto dogfight so I could get used to flying. This was very easy. \nAll in all Cool!. \nBrian\n", "I have a friend who is looking to buy MFM controller.\nIf you have one for sale, would you please contact me through\nemail...", "FOR SALE\n\n\t1 Sega Genesis (including all cables, manuals, boxes)\n\t1 controller\n\t9 games, including all manuals and boxes:\n\t\tSonic the Hedgehog\n\t\tRoad Rash\n\t\tJohn Madden Football '92\n\t\tN.H.L. Hockey\n\t\tSportstalk Baseball\n\t\tBulls vs. Lakers and the N.B.A. Playoffs\n\t\tJohn Madden Football '93\n\t\tN.H.L.P.A. Hockey\n\t\tSuper Monaco GP II\n\nAll of the above for $300 (or best offer); price includes UPS COD\nshipping.\n\nSend e-mail to erc@zabriskie.berkeley.edu if interested.\n\n-eric", "Try the folks at Dimolex Corp., La Crescenta, CA 91214.\nTheir number is (818) 957-7001. They make membrane keypads\nthat are very flat, in layouts from 2 to 128 keys. They\nhave standard models, tactile models (with stainless domes\nunder each key to make a 'click' you can feel), as well as\nbacklit models. Some of them can even be cut with scissors\nto form a funky shape other than a rectangle. Many of the\nmodels are available in a 'kit' which includes a bezel,\ncolored and plain key covers, and rub on lettering to make\nyour own layout. One piece prices aren't cheap, though,\nas they want $10 for one four position pad *kit*, and $45\nfor a 40 position *kit*.\n\nI have no affiliation with Dimolex or any company connected\nwith them. I *have* purchased a couple of keypads from them,\nand am pleased with what I got.", "They are actually 72 pin. They come in 4, 8, 16, and 32 with 64s soon\nIf you are interested in 4s or 8s, I may be able to help. Please call\n415-324-2881 after 4:00 pm pdt. I may be interested in a trade.\n\n", "\nConcurrent has a product called RealTimeX (tm) that is a set of real-time\nextensions to the X Window System. RealTimeX is currently supported on\nthe Concurrent Series 7000 and Series 8000 with the GA5000 graphics\naccelerator. If you need/want more info, let me know.\n\n\t\t- sam black\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nOnce you remove the absurdity from human existence, there isn't much left.\n\t\t __________\n\t\t / _______/__\n\t\t /__/______/ /\tblack@westford.ccur.com\n\t Concurrent /_________/\n\tComputer Corporation", "The following comics are for auction. The highest bid takes them! \n\n\nTITLE Minimum/Current \n--------------------------------------------------------------\nAlpha Flight 51 (Jim Lee's first work at Marvel)\t$ 5.00\n\nAliens 1 (1st app Aliens in comics, 1st prnt, May 1988)\t$20.00/KrisM./SOLD\n\nAmazing Spider-Man 136 (Intro new Green Goblin) $20.00\n\nAmazing Spider-Man 238 (1st appearance Hobgoblin)\t$50.00\n\nArcher and Armstrong 1 (Frank Miller/Smith/Layton)\t$ 7.50\n\nAvengers 263 (1st appearance X-factor) $ 3.50\n\nBloodshot 1 (Chromium cover, BWSmith Cover/Poster)\t$ 5.00/Same/THREE\n\nCyberRad 1 (Reintro CyberRad, Prestige silver edition)\t$15.00\n\nDaredevil 158 (Frank Miller art begins) $35.00\n\nDark Horse Presents 1 (1st app Concrete, 1st printing)\t$ 7.50 \n\nDetective 657 (Azrael appears, Intro Cypher)\t\t$ 5.00\n\nDetective 658 (Azrael appears)\t\t\t\t$ 4.00\n\nHarbinger 10 (1st appearance H.A.R.D. Corps)\t\t$ 7.00/B.Matthey/SOLD\n\nH.A.R.D. Corps 1 \t\t\t\t\t$ 5.00\n\nIncredible Hulk 324 (1st app Grey Hulk since #1 1962)\t$ 7.00\n\nIncredible Hulk 330 (1st McFarlane issue)\t\t$15.00\n\nIncredible Hulk 331 (Grey Hulk series begins)\t\t$11.00\n\nIncredible Hulk 367 (1st Dale Keown art in Hulk) $15.00\n\nIncredible Hulk 377 (1st all new hulk, 1st prnt, Keown) $15.00\n\nMarvel Comics Presents 1 (Wolverine, Silver Surfer) $ 7.50\n\nMarvel Presents (Charleston Chew giveaway, Sam Keith)\t$ 5.00\n\nMaxx Limited Ashcan (4000 copies exist, blue cover)\t$33.50/BrentB/SOLD\n\nMr T. #1 (Signed Advance copy, 10,000 exist)\t\t$10.00\n\nNew Mutants 86 (McFarlane cover, 1st app Cable - cameo)\t$10.00\n\nNew Mutants 100 (1st app X-Force) $ 5.00\n\nNew Mutants Annual 5 (1st Liefeld art on New Mutants)\t$10.00\n\nOmega Men 3 (1st appearance Lobo) $ 7.50\n\nOmega Men 10 (1st full Lobo story) $ 7.50\n\nPower Man & Iron Fist 78 (3rd appearance Sabretooth) $20.00\n\nPower Man & Iron Fist 84 (4th appearance Sabretooth) $15.00\n\nSimpsons Comics and Stories 1 (Polybagged special ed.)\t$ 7.50\n\nSpectacular Spider-Man 147 (1st app New Hobgoblin) $12.50\n\nSpider-Man Special (UNICEF giveaway, vs Venom)\t\t$10.00\n\nStar Trek the Next Generation 1 (Feb 1988, DC mini) $ 7.50\n\nStar Trek the Next Generation 1 (Oct 1989, DC comics) $ 7.50\n\nTrianglehead #1 (Special limited edition, autographed)\t$ 5.00\n\nWeb of Spider-Man 29 (Hobgoblin, Wolverine appear) $10.00 \n\nWeb of Spider-Man 30 (Origin Rose, Hobgoblin appears) $ 7.50\n\nWolverine 10 (Before claws, 1st battle with Sabretooth)\t$15.00\n\nWolverine 41 (Sabretooth claims to be Wolverine's dad)\t$ 5.00\n\nWolverine 42 (Sabretooth proven not to be his dad)\t$ 3.50\n\nWolverine 43 (Sabretooth/Wolverine saga concludes)\t$ 3.00\n\nWolverine 1 (1982 mini-series, Miller art)\t\t$20.00\n\nWonder Woman 267 (Return of Animal Man) $12.50\n\nX-Force 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, X-Force card) $20.00\n\nX-Force 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, Shatterstar card) $10.00\n\nX-Force 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, Deadpool card) $10.00\n\nX-Force 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, Sunspot/Gideon) $10.00\n\n\nAll comics are in near mint to mint condition, are bagged in shiny \npolypropylene bags, and backed with white acid free boards. Shipping is\n$1.50 for one book, $3.00 for more than one book, or free if you order \na large enough amount of stuff. I am willing to haggle.\n\nI have thousands and thousands of other comics, so please let me know what \nyou've been looking for, and maybe I can help. Some titles I have posted\nhere don't list every issue I have of that title, I tried to save space.", "\nI had this problem some time ago. Some BIOSes do not automatically install \nCOM3 or COM4 in the port tables. Programs like most modem programs which \nwrite directly to the port work fine but anything that uses a BIOS call \nfails. Find a BBS or FTP site where you can get a copy of PORT FINDER. Put \n\"device=pf.sys\" in your config.sys or run pf.com from your autoexec.bat. \nThis little program will locate all existing ports and make sure the BIOS \ntables are updated. It works great. PF will also let you swap ports and \nsuch also if that is of any value to you.", "I've been looking into getting a portable Mac to do some work and I've\nhad my eye on the PB 100. Lately, I've been seeing people with the old\nportables, and they're selling for $300 LESS that the PB 100s. What I\nwant to know is: what are the differences between them? All I know is\nthat the Portable is heavier, but the PB100 doesn't have an internal\ndrive. Here's what I NEED to know:\n\nDoes the portable support Appletalk/network connections?\nWhat's the CPU inside a Portable? (68000?)\nDOES THE PORTABLE SUPPORT SYSTEM 7?????????\nWhat's the maximum memory capacity of the Portable? Can you still get\n\tRAM (meaning: does it use special SIMMS?)\nWhat kind of internal HD does it use?\nDoes the Portable have a better screen?\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\tTHANX in advance.", "BOOKS FOR SALE\n ================\n\nTally up any and all of the books you want and send me a message. \nShipping will be by US Mail Parcel Post/Book Rate. Payment in advance\nor COD accepted. \n\nAll books are in good to excellent condition. Paperbacks, unless noted. \nQuantity Discounts. \n\nThis list is updated continually. The latest list can be requested by\ne-mail. This list supercedes all previous lists. Not responsible for typos.\n !!!! = New To Listing **** = Claimed, but not paid for yet\n===============================================================================\nDavid Hwang, Ann Arbor, Michigan david@ganglion.ann-arbor.mi.us\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n List of: February 27, 1993\n===============================================================================\nComputers\n---------\nUsing Wordperfect 5 (QUE, Stewart)............................... $10.00\nUsing Clipper (QUE, Tiley)....................................... $10.00\nTRS-80 Assembly Language Programming [Barden].................... $ 1.00\n57 Practical Programs & Games in Basic [Tracton]................. $ 1.00\nFirst Book of Wordperfect 5.1 [Barnes]........................... $ 8.00\n\nCorvettes\n---------\n1984-1986 Y Car Parts and Illustration Catalog [GM Manual]....... $ 7.50\nSecrets of Corvette Detailing [Antonick]......................... $ 7.50\nEckler's Complete Guide to Corvette Fiberglass Repair............ $ 7.50\nCorvette Owners' Workshop Manual [Haynes] [84-87]................ $ 7.50\nChevrolet Power Catalog [GM Manual] 6th. Edition................. $ 3.50\nCorvette Driver/Owner Guide For 1953-1988 Models [Antonick]...... $ 7.50\nChevrolet Small Block V8 Speed Equipment Buyers Guide [Lamm]..... $10.00\nChilton's Easy Car Care, 2nd. Edition............................ $10.00\n\nMedicine\n--------\nOphthalmology Study Guide For Medical Students................... $ 4.00\nWashington Manual or Medical Therapeutics, 26th. Ed.............. $10.00\nRespiratory Physiology-The Essentials [West], 3rd. Ed............ $ 9.00\nLangman's Medical Embryology, 5th. Ed. [Sadler] -hardcover-...... $18.00 SOLD\nEssentials of Human Anatomy, 7th. Ed. [Woodburne] -hardcover-.... $18.00 SOLD\nCardiology Reference Book, 3rd Ed. [Kloner]...................... $ 4.00\nHandbook of Antimicrobial Therapy 1992 [Mandell]................. $ 4.00\nGuide to Antimicrobial Therapy 1991 [Sanford] ................... $ 1.00 \n --> or free with $10.00 of Med Books\nComprehensive Review of the Basic Sciences....................... $10.00 SOLD\nHow to Get Into Medical & Dental School, 3rd. Ed................. $ 2.00\nSexual Interactions [Allgeier], 2nd Ed. -hardcover-.............. $25.00\nOn Call: Principles and Protocols [Ruedy]........................ $ 9.00\nPhysicans' Desk Reference [PDR], 46th Ed., 1992 -hardcover-...... $10.00\nIntroduction to General Pathology [Spector], 2nd Ed. ............ $ 8.00\nMedical School Admissions: Strategy For Success [Weschler] 1982.. $ 4.00\nGetting Into Medical School [Brown] 1981 ........................ $ 1.00\nTen Point Plan For College Acceptance [Graham] 1981 ............. $ 2.00\n\nOther\n-----\nCollege Accounting, 9th Ed., 1972 [Carson] -hardcover-........... $ 2.00\n", "Hi ppl,\n\nI am running XFree386 under Linux SLS1.0 and am trying to get the german\nkeyboard working. I have already recompiled my kernel and the german\nkeyboard in the textmode works just fine.\nI have found out, that there is a preconfigured german keymap for X\ncalled Xmodmap.gr in /usr/lib/X11, so I ran xmodmap /usr/lib/X11/Xmodmap.gr.\nMy first impression was very good, I was able to get Z and Y straight :)\nThere's still a little problem I can't solve however:\nI cannot get at the backslash, bar, brackets and curly brackets.\nThe ALT-GR key doesn't seem to work.\nI tried xev to find out whether it produces an event at all and it does.\nLooking up its keycode (113) in the Xmodmap I found the entry \"Mode_switch\"\nwhich doesn't ring any bell. The entries for the keys I cannot use seem\nto be correct. Example: keycode XX = ssharp questn backslash\nThe first 2 entries I can even get at. The first one is the unmodified\nkey and the second is the key with shift, but what is the 3rd??\nMy guess is that it should be the key with ALT-GR but it isn't.\nIf anybody has run into similar problems and knows how to solve them,\nhelp would be appreciated.\n\nCU", "One not-so-quick question to throw out there for you guys...\n\nFor our class project, we need to design and build a power supply\nto the following specs:\n\nVoltatge: adjustable from 1-12V\nCurrent: *limited* at 1A\n\nVoltage must stay within 2% of designated value for I from 0-1A\nAC ripple less than 5 mV (rms)\n\nOf course, we can't just use an adjustable voltage, current-limiting\nregulator chip ;^)\n\nOur problem is with the current limiting (i.e. we've found stuff to\ndo the rest of the parts of the circuit). What the supply must do,\nif presented with a load which would draw more than 1A, given the\nsupply voltage, is reduce the voltage so that the current will equal\none amp. Thus, if we were to short the thing with the ammeter, we\nshould read one amp. If we measure the current through a 1 ohm \nresistor at 12V, we should read one amp (and the output voltage, by\nnecessity, must be 1V.\n\nThe only basic idea we have seen for the current limiter involves\na circuit which will pull current off of the base of the output \npower transistor, and therefore reduce the output.\n\nSo, does anybody have any ideas we could work from?\n\nThanks in advance.\n\nAndy Collins, KC6YEY\nacollins@uclink.berkeley.edu", "With a little luck, I could own a C650 sometime in the near future, and\nso I was just wondering if someone could clear these two questions up for me:\n\n1. What speed SIMMS does the C650 need/want? (I know that it needs 80ns\nVRAM...not sure for the main RAM.)\n\n2. I've heard two conflicting stories about the total expandibility of the\nC650's RAM...132 and 136 megs. Which is true? (Perhaps another phrasing\nwould be better: does the 8 meg version come with all 8 megs on the logic\nboard, or 4 megs + a 4 meg SIMM?)\n\nJust wondering....\n", "\nAs I've noted, you can likely get around that with a directional\nsensor. Phased array systems could completely defeat this scheme.\n\n--\nPerry Metzger\t\tpmetzger@shearson.com", "On a more cheerful note, perhaps hackerism/hacking isn't completely dead.\n\nAs someone else said, take the GNU offerings for example - free, redistributable and \noften better than the commercial stuff. Take also the number of papers published\nevery year in all the fields of computer science - the vast majority of these papers\ndetail original work of real, often exceptional merit - and the authors are sharing\nthis knowledge.", "I have sold the receiver. The Equilizer is still for sale\n\n-Technics SA-450 integrated Quartz synthesizer Digital Receiver\n -SOLD!!!!!\n\n-Audio Control C-101 graphic equilizer\n\t-This is an awesome Eq., but I am broke.\n -10 bands/channel, octave EQ\n -subsonic filter\n -rumble reducer\n -tape monitor\n -amazing real time spectrum analyzer with calibrtated microphone and \n pink noise generator, calibrated and uncalibrated range adjustment,\n display is calibrated in dB and can display the average energy per \n band, or the average for the full speactrum(great for checking how \n loud your system is)\n -The display action has two speed settings to adjust how quickly the \n display responds to transients\n This is one of the best equilizers around. It is very quiet, and the display\nIs fascinating to watch. It sells for $400-$450 in stores, so I will sell it\nfor -$315 obo", "I am using a 8507 IBM monitor (19\" greysale) with a Trident (1MB) card.\n\nThe screen looks great (Windows) at 640x480 but total shit at 1024x768.\nThere are lots of lines and the image is sorta blurry.\n\nIs there anything I can do. Do you think it is the monitor? I know\nthat it is Interlaced at that res but still.\n\nthanks for the help", "We have a program written with X11R5 and Motif 1.2.1. It runs fine on the Sun\nX11R5 server and MacX. When that program is run under the Sparc 2 and the\nOW server, the program crashed itself along with the server. It crashed before\nthe first window had showed up.\n\nI got the following error from X.\nXIO: fatal IO error 32 (Broken pipe) on X server \"perot:0.0\"\n after 62 requests (59 known processed) with 0 events remaining.\n The connection was probably broken by a server shutdown or KillClient.\n\nI have run the program with xmon and below is the last twenty lines or so from\nxmon before both the program and server crashed.\n\n ............REQUEST: GetProperty\n delete: False\n window: WIN 00900001\n property: ATM 00000074\n type: ATM 00000074\n long-offset: 00000000\n ..............REPLY: GetProperty\n format: 00\n type: \n bytes-after: 00000000\n ............REQUEST: GetInputFocus\n ..............REPLY: GetInputFocus\n revert-to: Parent\n focus: WIN 0040000d\n ............REQUEST: ChangeProperty\n mode: Replace\n window: WIN 00900001\n property: ATM 00000074\n type: ATM 00000074\n format: 08\n data: 42 00 00 01 00 00 00 10 00 00 00 75 00 00 00 00 \n ............REQUEST: GetInputFocus\n\nPlease email to me if you have any idea of the above problem.\nThanks in advance.\n", "Hello,\n Subject says it all. I need a GIF to Targa converter, so that my\ndta15 could make a .FLI of them.\n Krzysztof\n\n\n\n", "Hi all,\n \n I'm looking for some info regarding an old pcmade by Otronics (or\nmaybe Oltronics) called the Attache. This little beauty is an 8088\n/ Z80 luggable with a 4 or 5 inch screen (monochrome CGA) and 2 360\nfloppies. \n For serial ports it has 2 DB-15 connectors (one is labled 'printer')\nand I can't figure out the pinouts for them. I also don't know if they \nare standard com ports addressable as COM1 and COM2. I have figured out \nthat they'll only work with DOS 2.something. \n \n If anyone can give me some pointers on this one, I'd be most \nappreciative. Please reply via email, as I can't keep up with news \nlately. (Finals are coming up you know :( )", "Hi everyone,\n\nDoes anyone know a good way to adjust colourmaps on the\nfly (say during an animation) and prevent the current\nset of colours from flickering?\n\nThanks,", "Hi all,\n\nI think the subject says it all - does anyone know how to take the rgb/h/vsync from a standard vga connector and record them on video tape??\n\nAny help is appreciated!\n\n\nMark J Cargill", "\nIt's still in the pub/pc/win3/uploads directory as qvtnet34.zip.\n", "[ Article crossposted from misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone ]\n[ Author was Mark Wilson ]\n[ Posted on Fri, 16 Apr 1993 13:18:42 GMT ]\n\nUPDATE (\"for sale\" items):\n(All plus shipping)\n\n1. CORE 72Mb Hard drive, model AT72, works fine,\n 5 1/4\" full-height, reduced to $90\n\n2. MFM controller for the above, would like to sell\n with above, have $15 asking price,\n but will sell with #1 above for $100 combined.\n\n3. AT-style case $10 (in process of selling)\n\n4. VGA card, 512K, now asking $25\n\n5. 386 Max, version 6.0, now asking $25\n\nPlease email mark@ocsmd.ocs.com or use phone #s below.\n\n- Mark\n--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nMark Wilson, Online Computer Systems. 1-800-922-9204 or 1-301-601-2215\n(Try email address mark@ocsmd.ocs.com....)\nThis file .disclaims everything signed with my .signature, I .mean it!\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nMark Wilson, Online Computer Systems. 1-800-922-9204 or 1-301-601-2215\n(Try email address mark@ocsmd.ocs.com....)\nThis file .disclaims everything signed with my .signature, I .mean it!", "I would appreciate very much the address and/or phone # of \nthis company. They supposely make analog EEPROMS. Thanks in\nadvance.", "I have posted DISP140.ZIP to alt.binaries.pictures.utilities.\nI will upload this package to SIMTEL20 later.\n\n****** You may distribute this program freely for non-commercial use\n if no fee is gained.\n****** There is no warranty. The author is not responsible for any\n damage caused by this program.\n\nImportant changes since Version 1.35:\n Added support for IRIS.\n Support Mix/Concat. two images.\n Added support for 'batch conversion'.\n Added support for 'load/save palette table'.\n Added support for 'edge enhance'.\n Added support for 'crop one line'.\n Added support for 'negate image'.\n New color quantization option.\n Fix some minor bugs.\n\n(1) Introduction:\n This program can let you READ, WRITE and DISPLAY images with different\n formats. It also let you do some special effects(ROTATION, DITHERING ....)\n on image. Its main purpose is to let you convert image among different\n formts.\n Include simple file management system.\n Support 'slide show'.\n+ Support 'batch conversion'.\n There is NO LIMIT on image size.\n Currently this program supports 8, 15, 16, 24 bits display.\n If you want to use HiColor or TrueColor, you must have VESA driver.\n If you want to modify video driver, please read section (8).\n\n\n(2) Hardware Requirement:\n PC 386 or better. MSDOS 3.3 or higher.\n min amount of ram is 4M bytes(Maybe less memory will also work).\n (I recommend min 8M bytes for better performance).\n Hard disk for swapping(virtual memory).\n\n The following description is borrowed from DJGPP.\n\n Supported Wares:\n\n * Up to 128M of extended memory (expanded under VCPI)\n * Up to 128M of disk space used for swapping\n * SuperVGA 256-color mode up to 1024x768\n * 80387\n * XMS & VDISK memory allocation strategies\n * VCPI programs, such as QEMM, DESQview, and 386MAX\n\n Unsupported:\n\n * DPMI\n * Microsoft Windows\n\n Features: 80387 emulator, 32-bit unix-ish environment, flat memory\n model, SVGA graphics.\n\n\n(3) Installation:\n Video drivers, emu387 and go32.exe are borrowed from DJGPP.\n (If you use Western Digital VGA chips, read readme.wd)\n (This GO32.EXE is a modified version for vesa and is COMPLETELY compatible\n with original version)\n *** But some people report that this go32.exe is not compatible with\n other DJGPP programs in their system. If you encounter this problem,\n DON'T put go32.exe within search path.\n\n *** Please read runme.bat for how to run this program.\n\n If you choose xxxxx.grn as video driver, add 'nc 256' to environment\n GO32.\n\n For example, go32=driver x:/xxxxx/xxxxx.grn nc 256\n\n If you don't have 80x87, add 'emu x:/xxxxx/emu387' to environment GO32.\n\n For example, go32=driver x:/xxxxx/xxxxx.grd emu x:/xxxxx/emu387\n\n **** Notes: 1. I only test tr8900.grn, et4000.grn and vesa.grn.\n Other drivers are not tested.\n 2. I have modified et4000.grn to support 8, 15, 16, 24 bits\n display. You don't need to use vesa driver.\n If et4000.grn doesn't work, please try vesa.grn.\n 3. For those who want to use HiColor or TrueColor display,\n please use vesa.grn(except et4000 users).\n You can find vesa BIOS driver from :\n wuarchive.wustl.edu: /mirrors/msdos/graphics\n godzilla.cgl.rmit.oz.au: /kjb/MGL\n\n\n(4) Command Line Switch:\n\n Usage : display [-d|--display initial_display_type]\n [-s|--sort sort_method]\n [-h|-?]\n\n Display type: 8(SVGA,default), 15, 16(HiColor), 24(TrueColor)\n Sort method: 'name', 'ext'\n\n\n(5) Function Key:\n\n F2 : Change disk drive.\n\n CTRL-A -- CTRL-Z : change disk drive.\n\n F3 : Change filename mask. (See match.doc)\n\n F4 : Change parameters.\n\n F5 : Some effects on picture, eg. flip, rotate ....\n\n F7 : Make Directory.\n\n t : Tag file.\n\n + : Tag group files. (See match.doc)\n\n T : Tag all files.\n\n u : Untag file.\n\n - : Untag group files. (See match.doc)\n\n U : Untag all files.\n\n Ins : Change display type (8,15,16,24) in 'read' & 'screen' menu.\n\n F6,m,M : Move file(s).\n\n+ ALT-M : Move single file(ignore tag).\n\n F8,d,D : Delete file(s).\n\n+ ALT-D : Delete single file(ignore tag).\n\n r,R : Rename file.\n\n c,C : Copy File(s).\n\n+ ALT-C : Copy single file(ignore tag).\n\n z,Z : Display first 10 bytes in Ascii, Hex and Dec modes.\n\n f,F : Display disk free space.\n\n Page Up/Down : Move one page.\n\n TAB : Change processing target.\n\n Arrow keys, Home, End, Page Up, Page Down: Scroll image.\n Home: Left Most.\n End: Right Most.\n Page Up: Top Most.\n Page Down: Bottom Most.\n in 'screen' & 'effect' menu :\n Left,Right arrow: Change display type(8, 15, 16, 24 bits).\n\n+ CTRL-Arrow keys : Crop image by one line(in graphics mode).\n\n s,S : Slide Show(show tagged files). ESCAPE to terminate.\n\n+ b,B : Batch conversion(convert tagged files to single format).\n\n+ w,W : Wait/Pause in slide show.\n\n ALT-X : Quit program without prompting.\n\n ALT-A : Reread directory.\n\n Escape : Abort function and return.\n\n\n(6) Support Format:\n\n Read: GIF(.gif), Japan MAG(.mag), Japan PIC(.pic), Sun Raster(.ras),\n Jpeg(.jpg), XBM(.xbm), Utah RLE(.rle), PBM(.pbm), PGM(.pgm),\n PPM(.ppm), PM(.pm), PCX(.pcx), Japan MKI(.mki), Tiff(.tif),\n Targa(.tga), XPM(.xpm), Mac Paint(.mac), GEM/IMG(.img),\n IFF/ILBM(.lbm), Window BMP(.bmp), QRT ray tracing(.qrt),\n Mac PICT(.pct), VIS(.vis), PDS(.pds), VIKING(.vik), VICAR(.vic),\n+ FITS(.fit), Usenix FACE(.fac), IRIS(.sgi).\n\n the extensions in () are standard extensions.\n\n Write: GIF, Sun Raster, Jpeg, XBM, PBM, PGM, PPM, PM, Tiff, Targa,\n XPM, Mac Paint, Ascii, Laser Jet, IFF/ILBM, Window BMP,\n+ Mac PICT, VIS, FITS, FACE, PCX, GEM/IMG, IRIS.\n\n All Read/Write support full color(8 bits), grey scale, b/w dither,\n and 24 bits image, if allowed for that format.\n\n\n(7) Detail:\n\n Initialization:\n Set default display type to highest display type.\n Find allowable screen resolution(for .grn video driver only).\n\n 1. When you run this program, you will enter 'read' menu. Whthin this\n menu you can press any function key. If you move or copy\n files, you will enter 'write' menu. the 'write' menu is much like\n 'read' menu, but only allow you to change directory.\n The header line in 'read' menu includes \"(d:xx,f:xx,t:xx)\".\n d : display type. f: number of files. t: number of tagged files.\n pressing SPACE in 'read' menu will let you select which format to use\n for reading current file.\n pressing RETURN in 'read' menu will let you reading current file. This\n program will automatically determine which format this file is.\n The procedure is: First, check magic number. If fail, check\n standard extension. Still fail, report error.\n pressing s or S in 'read' menu will do 'Slide Show'.\n If delay time is 0, program will wait until you hit a key\n (except ESCAPE).\n If any error occurs, program will make a beep.\n+ 'w' or 'W' to pause, any key to continue.\n ESCAPE to terminate.\n pressing Ins in 'read' menu will change display type.\n pressing ALT-X in 'read' menu will quit program without prompting.\n+ pressing F5 will turn on 'effect' menu.\n\n 2. Once image file is successfully read, you will enter 'screen' menu.\n You can do special effect on image.\n pressing RETURN: show image.\n in graphic mode, press RETURN, SPACE or ESCAPE to return to text\n mode.\n pressing TAB: change processing target. This program allows you to do\n special effects on 8-bit or 24-bit image.\n pressing Left,Right arrow: change display type. 8, 15, 16, 24 bits.\n pressing SPACE: save current image to file.\n B/W Dither: save as black/white image(1 bit).\n Grey Scale: save as grey image(8 bits).\n Full Color: save as color image(8 bits).\n True Color: save as 24-bit image.\n\n This program will ask you some questions if you want to write image\n to file. Some questions are format-dependent. Finally This program\n will prompt you a filename. If you want to save file under another\n directory other than current directory, please press SPACE. after\n pressing SPACE, you will enter 'write2' menu. You can change\n directory to what you want. Then,\n\n pressing SPACE: this program will prompt you 'original' filename.\n pressing RETURN: this program will prompt you 'selected' filename\n (filename under bar).\n\n\n 3. This program supports 8, 15, 16, 24 bits display.\n\n 4. This Program is MEMORY GREEDY. If you don't have enough memory,\n the performance is poor.\n\n 5. If you want to save 8 bits image :\n try GIF then TIFF(LZW) then TARGA then Sun Raster then BMP then ...\n\n If you want to save 24 bits image (lossless):\n try TIFF(LZW) or TARGA or ILBM or Sun Raster\n (No one is better for true 24bits image)\n\n 6. I recommend Jpeg for storing 24 bits images, even 8 bits images.\n\n 7. Not all subroutines are fully tested\n\n 8. This document is not well written. If you have any PROBLEM, SUGGESTION,\n COMMENT about this program,\n Please send to u7711501@bicmos.ee.nctu.edu.tw (140.113.11.13).\n I need your suggestion to improve this program.\n (There is NO anonymous ftp on this site)\n\n\n(8) Tech. information:\n Program (user interface and some subroutines) written by Jih-Shin Ho.\n Some subroutines are borrowed from XV(2.21) and PBMPLUS(dec 91).\n Tiff(V3.2) and Jpeg(V4) reading/writing are through public domain\n libraries.\n Compiled with DJGPP.\n You can get whole DJGPP package from SIMTEL20 or mirror sites.\n For example, wuarchive.wustl.edu: /mirrors/msdos/djgpp\n\n\n(9) For Thoese who want to modify video driver:\n 1. get GRX source code from SIMTEL20 or mirror sites.\n 2. For HiColor and TrueColor:\n 15 bits : # of colors is set to 32768.\n 16 bits : # of colors is set to 0xc010.\n 24 bits : # of colors is set to 0xc018.\n\n\nAcknowledgment:\n I would like to thank the authors of XV and PBMPLUS for their permission\n to let me use their subroutines.\n Also I will thank the authors who write Tiff and Jpeg libraries.\n Thank DJ. Without DJGPP I can't do any thing on PC.\n", "MJM>HI, I was wondering if anyone would be able to help me on twwo related\nMJM>subjects. I am currently learning about AM/FM receivers and recieving\nMJM>circuits. I understand a lot of things ,but a few things I am confused\nMJM>abuot. The first is the MIXER, to mix the RF and local oscillator\nMJM>frequencies to make the IF. Does anyone have any cicruit diagrams (as\nMJM>simple as possible) for this kind of mixer? I have come across a\nMJM>MC-SBL mixer chip But I have not been able to find it in any catalogs\nMJM>(ACTIVE,etc...)\n\nMJM>Along the same note, are there any SIMPLE fm receiver circuits anyone\nMJM>may have stashed away somewhere and they couold let me see?.\n\nMJM>P.S. any REALLY GOOD BOOKS on AM/FM theory ALONG WITH DETAILED\nMJM>ELECTRICAL DIAGRAMS would help a lot.\nMJM>I have seen a lot of theory books with no circuits and a lot of\nMJM>circuit books with no theory, but one without the other does not help.\n\nDigi-key has the NE-622 chip which has a local oscillator and mixer on\none chip.\n\nFor a great combination of theory with actual circuits, the best\nreference for non-engineers is probably the Radio Amateur's Handbook\nfrom the ARRL. Most library's have it in the reference section.\n\n\n * SLMR 2.1 * If ignorance is bliss, why aren't there more happy folk?\n ", "Does anyone know the details of the interface (5 wire din) for the\nIR remote sensor & (2 wire IR repeater) for the ADCOM GTP-500II\npreamp? The ADCOM part numbers are the XR-500II, SPM-500II, and \nIRA-500II.\n\nA cursory physical examination of the pre-amp connector indicates\nthat the connector (5 pin din) may provide: (Viewed from connector front)\n\n |\n 5 1 (pin ?) +?v @ ???mA\n 4 2 (pin ?) +/-?v @ ???mA\n 3 (pin 3) Signal Ground\n (pin ?) Demodulated signal ?V-pp, ? polarity, ? mA drive\n (pin ?) Signal to drive repeater LED (drives through 150ohm\n resistor) ?V-pp\n\nI assume that the repeater connectors (mini-plugs) drive the IR repeater\nLED's directly. True?\n\nCan anyone fill in the ?'s. Thanks.\n", "\n\n\tI think this kind of comparison is pretty useless in general. The\nprocessor is only good when a good computer is designed around it adn the\ncomputer is used in its designed purpose. Comparing processor speed is\npretty dumb because all you have to do is just increase the clock speed\nto increase speed among other things.\n\n\tI mean how can you say a 040 is faster than a 486 without \ngiving is operational conditions? Can you say the same when \nyou are running a program that uses a lot of transidental functions.\nKnowing that 040 does not have transidental functions building in to \nits FPU and 486 does, can you say that 040 is still faster?\n\n\tAnyway, I hope people do not decided upon wether a computers\nis good or not solely on its processor. Or how fast a processor is\nbased on its name, because one can alway do a certain things to a\nprocessor to speed it up. \n\n\tBut if we restrict our arguements to, for example, pure\nprocessor architectural issues. Or how one processor will work\nwell and another will not based on its design, then we can get\nsomewhere with our discussions. \n\n- Chung Yang", "To those who own CMS's Trakkers...please email me with your thoughts on your\nmachine...and specifics such as avg. file access..etc", "\n\n\tI have one and it is my favorite CD-ROM drive so far. I also have \na NEC-74 and have had experience with several other drives (Various \nPhillips drives)\n\n\tThe 3401 is faster than the NEC, I like its door better (the NEC \nneeds 2 hands), the XA handling (The NEC needs to be re-booted to go from \nXA to ROM while the 3401 does it on the fly), All in all I am seriously \nconsidering replacing my NEC with another Toshiba.", "\nGee, I got the idea from somewhere that devices like this were in common\nuse in WWII, so that commanders on board ships could bellow at the troops\nlanding on a beach, for example.\n\nWhich reminds me of an anecdote from the mid-60s. At a communications\nconference a Marine Corps communications officer said he didn't care\nmuch for all the spread-spectrum multi-access expensive communication\nsystems that people were talking about at the time; what he wanted\nwas a kilowatt broadcast transmitter on the ship and a $4.95 Japanese\ntransistor radio stuck in the ear of every Marine hitting the beach.\n-- \nhaynes@cats.ucsc.edu\nhaynes@cats.bitnet", "To everyone who wants fonts in Vivid/POV/Polyray.\nThe Borland BGI font converter is VVFONT18.ZIP.\nThis program can be found on FTP.INFORMATIK.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE directory\npub/dkbtrace/utils.\nAlso WUARCHIVE has mirrored this site (directory graphics/graphics/mirrors/\nftp.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/pub/dkbtrace/utils.\nThere are more nice utilities present in this directory.\nA new version of Polyray 1.6 (for those asked for it) can be found on the \nsame sites but in the directory INCOMING instead of UTILS (PLY16386).\nAlso in this directory POVSHELL and PV3DV060 could be found.\nHave a nive raytrace time.\nPeter", "Has anyone dealt with First Tech based in Austin Tx? \nIf so, what has your experince been?", "I have a brand new, never used 12 inch mac to scsi cable for sale. I'm\nasking for $15 + shipping......tell me if this is too high....i don't think\nit is..\n\n\n+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+\n\n /~~~~~~~\\\n\\_____ |\n | | TTTTTT EEEEE VV VV EEEEE |\n | | TT EE VV VV EE |\n /---/ | TT EEEE VV VV EEEE | Steve Liu |", "If anyone has a list of companies doing data visualization (software\nor hardware) I would like to hear from them. Thanks.\n\n\t-- krs\n-- ", "========== 20\" COLOR TV ============= San Diego Mesa College Area\n \nEmerson M20R w/ \"high-tech\" square screen\n BEST PRICE YOU\nfeatures: timer/sleep feature for auto- shut on/off\n CAN FIND FOR A\nfully cable ready w/ all coaxial video audio jacks\n 20-INCH COLOR TV\nMTS (multichannel sound jack) for processing stereo\n or bilingual channels\n $ 170.00 FIRM\n19 key remote includes review, recall, sleep features\n \n============================================== tel 619-278-8779\n \n please reply to lcornel@eis.calstate.edu for fastest response! -Louis\n", "\n After hearing about the McGovern House story on Paul Harvey I never had any\nidea how much it was worth. The autograph is on a Senate Pass card\nand is signed 'John Kennedy.' I don't remember if it was signed \n'Senator John Kennedy' or whether or not it was dated, because I haven't\nlooked at it in quite a while. Currently it is in a safety deposit box.\nI would rather sell to a private collector rather then go through an auction\nhouse such as Christy's since that would tend to take away from the profit. \nIf you (or any collector you may know) has an interest in this please send\nme an e-mail expressing your interest. I will see what I can do to make \na scanned gif of it available to prospective buyers.\n\n", "\n [Hint for Sun OS users: use /usr/5bin/echo instead of\n /bin/echo or Csh's built-in echo. Otherwise you'll have\n to embed literal ESC and BEL characters in the string\n instead of using convenient octal sequences.]\n\nBad idea. using /usr/5bin/echo is slower than the built-in echo.\nThis is what I do. It does execute `hostname` once per shell window,\nand does read in one extra file. But manipluating the titles does not\nrequire executing extra programs.\n\nOh yes, it does execute some programs once per each system. \nBut it stores them in a file for the next time...\n\n\nif ( ! $?HOSTNAME ) then\n\tsetenv HOSTNAME `hostname`\nendif\n\n# figure how how to generate escape, bell, \n# and echo commands without a a line terminator\n# I may have done this before. If so, the variable E is set\n\n# have I executed this script before on this system?\nif ( $?E ) then\n#\techo \"already set the echo variables\">/dev/tty\nelse if ( -f ~/.echo.${HOSTNAME} ) then\n\tsource ~/.echo.${HOSTNAME}\nelse if ( `echo -n |wc -l` == 0 ) then\n#\techo \"built in echo is bsd\" >/dev/tty\n\t# then berkeley style echo\n\techo 'set ech = \"echo -n\"' >~/.echo.${HOSTNAME}\n\techo \"set E = `echo a | tr a '\\033'`\" >> ~/.echo.${HOSTNAME}\n\techo \"set B = `echo a | tr a '\\007'`\" >> ~/.echo.${HOSTNAME}\n\techo 'set N = \"\"' >> ~/.echo.${HOSTNAME}\n\tsource ~/.echo.${HOSTNAME}\nelse \n#\techo \"built in echo is sysV\" >/dev/tty\n\techo 'set ech = \"echo\"' >~/.echo.${HOSTNAME}\n\techo 'set E = \"\\033\"' >> ~/.echo.${HOSTNAME}\n\techo 'set B = \"\\007\"' >> ~/.echo.${HOSTNAME}\n\techo 'set N = \"\\c\"' >> ~/.echo.${HOSTNAME}\n\tsource ~/.echo.${HOSTNAME}\nendif\t\n\n\n# Are we using shelltool, cmdtool or xterm?\n# duplicate these aliases here to avoid problems\nif ( $term =~ sun* ) then\n\t# Sun Aliases\n\talias Header '${ech} \"${E}]l\\!:1${E}\\${N}\"'\n\talias IHeader '${ech} \"${E}]L\\!:1${E}\\${N}\"'\nelse if ( $term =~ xterm ) then\n\talias Header '${ech} \"${E}]2;\\!:1${B}${N}\"'\n\talias IHeader '${ech} \"${E}]1;\\!:1${B}${N}\"'\nendif\n\n\n", "I have the following program on CD ROM forsale:\n\n\n\tToolwork MPC Encyclopedia on CD-ROM\n\t- Multimedia\n\t- Brand new\n\t - Shrink-wrapped\n\n\nAsking : $50 / obo\n\nSend reply to : sam@ocf.berkeley.edu", "I know this is probably a FAQ, but...\n\nI installed the s/w for my ATI graphics card, and it bashed my Windows\nlogo files. When I start Windows now, it has the 3.0 logo instead of\nthe 3.1 logo.\n\nI thought the files that controlled this were\n\n\\WINDOWS\\SYSTEM\\VGALOGO.RLE\n\\WINDOWS\\SYSTEM\\VGALOGO.LGO\t\n\nI restored these files, but it didn't change the logo. Anyone know what\nthe correct files are?\n\nThanks.\n\n", "I have win 3.0 and downloaded several icons and BMP's but I can't figure out\nhow to change the \"wallpaper\" or use the icons. Any help would be appreciated.\n\n\nThanx,\n\n-Brando", "Hi!\n\nI want to change the default paper cassette on our LaserWriter Pro 630\nfrom the 250-sheet cassette to the 500-sheet cassette. Right now, we all\nhave to change it manually on the Print dialog each time we print. If we\nforget, the document is printed on the letterhead paper we have in the\n250-sheet cassette.\n\nAny ideas?\n--Michael", "Hi, I'm looking for the 3-D studio driver for the\n\tOak card with 1 M of RAM.\n\tThis would be GREATLY (and I mean that) appreciated", "\n\n\n I had the same problem. At first, I thought it was the video driver and \n made sure I had the most current drivers, because the problem was most\n evident at SVGA resolution modes. It didn't help and after a bit of\n experimentation, determined that the problem existed in standard VGA\n resolution mode. It was just much less noticeable.\n \n My mouse was an older MS serial version I bought second hand in 1990. It\n worked just fine in DOS and DOS based graphic applications. On the \n guess that the problem was with the resolution of the mouse, I borrowed\n a new mouse (a MS bus model) and tried it. That solved the problem.\n So, if your mouse is old, you may want to try replacing it for a newer\n one.\n \n\n\n-- \nsignoff", "Please take this system off my hands. I no longer use it and it is\ntaking up valuable room. They system consists of a Microcom PDOS Apple II+\nclone with 64k on board and PDOS installed. It comes with a load of boards,\nincluding: a disk drive board, 2 Z80 boards, a 16k board, an 80 column\nboard, a couple printer boards including the Grappler II+. It has 2 1/2 height\ndrives and a cooling fan attachement. The keyboard is of the extended \nvariety with builting keywords and a keypad. All of it for $170.\n\nBrett Maraldo\n- Plexus Productions\n\n", "Is there a PD version of cfb, or other PD server stuff, which has a colour frame\nbuffer implementation which works in bitplaned mode, i.e. where the screen\nmemory is grouped so that \"bit 0 of every pixel is here, bit 1 is there, etc.\"\n\nThe only such beast I know if at the moment is the GfxBase server for the\nCommodore Amiga, and it is commercial. I don't know if they wrote their own cfb,\nbut I suspect they did.\n\nPlease respond by email, as I don't read this group.\n\nMany thanks\nDave", "\nyeah, but most of those are Big Hulking Mainframes which have no monitors.\n\n\nfactoid : FAbricated or Corrupted Tidbit of Ordinary Information (Diluted)\n\nok\ndpm", "i need to get some info a.s.a.p. about the cellular\nantenna market out there right now: who are the main\ncompanies making them, how much do they cost, what are\nthe specs (such as gain , directivity, etc.), and who\nis the contact person because a group of us here are\nat the Univ.of IL are researching into this technology\n\n\nI will personally mail you a copy of our entire busineess\nplan and paper if you can be of any help..", "Greetings!\n \nI've had a bunch of problems with the 24x. Opening a DOS window on the\ndesktop can occasionally result in the windows \"blowing up\" into a set of\nhorizontal lines, hashing the entire desktop. Nothing can recover this \nexcept to completely exit from Windows. The other irritating problem is\nthat windows that scroll often overwrite lines rather than actually\nscrolling, as if a CR was printed without an LF. This seems ONLY to happen\nto communications programs, but I can't nail it down any further than that.\nNote, though, that the comms programs don't have to be communicating. Even\njust scrolling back through capture buffers or displaying disk files in\nthese programs causes the problem.\n \n Prior to the latest rev of Word Perfect for Windows, WPwin would sometimes\nblow up, and the error message would cite the video driver as the source of\nthe problem. I've still seen this, but only once or twice with WPwin 5.2.", "Nice little, really compact, cream colored, 1200 external modem. Good\nfor the mac or ibm. I will throw in a cable for an extra $5 or so.\nIf you are interested email me an offer.", "Hi all,\n\nI wrote a small application which uses pixmaps copied into a window\nto show some drawings. This works perfectly for all kind of objects\nexpect large fonts. What happens on the screen is that the right\nhalf of the font is not shown. The way I create these things is\nquite simple; some aggregated code:\n\nXFillRectangle(Disp, Pixs, AnyColor, 0, 0, Width, Height);\nXDraw[Line|Rect|String](...);\nXCopyArea(Disp, Pixs, Win, 0, 0, Width, Height, 0, 0);\n\nI am using a RS6K 340 with BOS 3.2.\n\nThe question is:\n is this a bug in the AIX X-server (may be some PTFs), or did I do\n something wrong within my code??\n\nSorry for the cross-posting, but I really do not know what kind of\nerror it is.\n\n\nJuergen Schietke\nResearch Insitute for Discrete Mathematics\nUniversity of Bonn\nNassestr. 2\n5300 Bonn 1 (Germany)", "\nFirst off, with all these huge software packages and files that\nthey produce, IDE may no longer be sufficient for me (510 Mb limit).\nSecond, (rumor is) Microsoft recognizes the the importance of SCSI\nand will support it soon. I'm just not sure if it's on DOS, Win, or NT.\nAt any rate, the deal is with Corel who makes (I hear) a good\ncohesive set of SCSI drivers.\n\n-- ", "\n[ description deleted]\n\nany idea on prices??", "Visual Numerics Inc. (formerly IMSL and Precision Visuals) is in the\nprocess of securing sites for beta testing X Exponent Graphics 1.0 \nand C Exponent Graphics 2.0. (Both X Exponent Graphics and C Exponent\nGraphics are 3GL products). The beta period is from April 26 through \nJune 18. The platform is HP9000/700 running under OS 8.07 with \nansi C 8.71 compiler. The media will be sent on 4mm DAT cartridge \ntape. Here are some of the key facts about the two products.\n \nX Exponent Graphics 1.0 key facts:\n \n1. Complete collection of high-level 2D and 3D application plot types\n available through a large collection of X resources.\n2. Cstom widget for OSF/Motif developers.\n3. Built-in interactive GUI for plot customization.\n4. Easily-implemented callbacks for customized application feedback.\n5. XEG 1.0, being built on the Xt Toolkit provides the user a widget \n library that conforms to the expected syntax and standards familar \n to X programmers.\n6. XEG will also be sold as a bundle with Visual Edge's UIM/X product.\n This will enable user to use a GUI builder to create the graphical\n layout of an application.\n \nC Exponent Graphics 2.0 key facts:\n \n1. Written in C for C application programmers/developers. The library\n is 100% written in C, and the programming interface conforms to C\n standards, taking advantage fo the most desirable features of C.\n2. Build-in GUI for interactive plot customization. Through mouse \n interaction, the user has complete interactive graph output control\n with over 200 graphics attributes for plot customization.\n3. Large collection of high-level application functions for \"two-call\"\n graph creation. A wide variety of 2D and 3D plot types are available\n with minimal programming effort.\n4. User ability to interrupt and control the X event. By controlling\n the X event loop, when the user use the mouse to manipulate the plot\n the user can allow CEG to control the event loop or the user can \n control the event loop.\n \nIf anyone is interested in beta testing either of the products, please\ncontact Wendy Hou at Visual Numerics via email at hou@imsl.com or call\n713-279-1066.\n \n \n-- \nJaclyn Brandt\njbrandt@NeoSoft.com", "you also need to set the correct switch settings on your xt\ncontroller, which can be a pain, since most pc's don't come with\nproper docs for all hardware contained inside it.\n\n", "\n\n\nYou can order one from Digital today.\n\nCheers,\n\n\t\t\t\t\t/ h+\n-- \n -- Jon W{tte, h+@nada.kth.se, Mac Hacker Deluxe --", "\n\n\nLike most high-volume manufacturers, Adcom has most of its PC boards\nassembled off-shore (in their case, mostly in the far east). Final\nassembly _and testing_ are done in East Brunswick.\n\nThe products are, and have always been, designed entirely in the US;\nby their own staff and by audiophile gurus like Walter Jung. Adcom\nalso tends to prefer American and European components over their\nJapanese/Far East equivalents.\n\nOff-shore assembly is one reason that Adcom is able to make products\nthat perform as well as those from people like Audio Research and Van\nAlstine (and better than Hafler and Forte'), but at a much lower cost.\n\nOf course, if your musical diet consists mostly of Rock, you might\nprefer components from Kenwood or Pioneer...", "My wife has one of these. I have not had much chance to fiddle with\nit, but in comparison to our Laserwriters with Canon engines, she\ncomplains that the print is too light for her taste. The difference\nis quite apparent even when the print setting on the Select 310 is\nadjusted to the darkest possible level. I don't find it\nobjectionable, and indeed rather like it, but be warned that some\npeople don't care for it and it is considerably different. ", "Does anyone know where I can still get an internal fax modem for the \noriginal mac portable? I know they were made for a while by several \nmanufacturers, but I can't find them now. thanks for your help.\nGene Wright\n", "Mouseless operation is documented in the man pages for olwm and olvwm...\nHowever, I can't get it to work in either.\nI have this line in my .Xdefaults:\nOpenWindows.KeyboardCommands: Full\n\nThat should do it...\nI haven't rebound the keys.\nAm I missing something?", "I have an Adcom GFA-555 that I got in 1985. There certainly isn't\nanything magic about it. The components used are decent, but\nnothing uncommon with respect to consumer grade components.\n\nThe GFA-555 is a nice piece of equipment. I'm glad that Adcom had\nthe guts to not over-do the packaging. It irks me when I see\naudiophile oriented equipment whose case and heat sinks probably\ncost much more and receive more attention than the electronics they\nare supposed to serve.\n\nI don't see any big deal about the geographic region in which\nsomething is assembled. This is especially true for something as\nlow-technology as a GFA-555.\n\nI'd hope that a GFA-545 would still work well after several years.\nExcept under conditions of extreme abuse, there isn't much there to\ngo wrong.\n\n", "Folks,\n\nI am assembling info for a Film Criticism class final project.\n\nEssentially I need any/all movies that use motos in any substantial\ncapacity (IE; Fallen Angles, T2, H-D & the Marlboro Man,\nRaising Arizona, etc). \nAny help you fellow r.m'ers could give me would be much `preciated.\n(BTW, a summary of bike(s) or plot is helpful but not necessary)\n\nThanx\n\n-Erc.\n\n\n_______________________________________________________________________________\nC Eric Sundheim csundh30@ursa.Calvin.edu\nGrandRapids, MI, USA\n`90 Hondo VFR750f\nDoD# 1138", null ], "marker": { "opacity": 0.5, "size": 5 }, "mode": "markers+text", "name": "0_the_to_and", "text": [ "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", 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"", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", 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", "dtype": "f4" } }, { "hoverinfo": "text", "hovertext": [ "\n: I am curious about knowing which commericial cars today\n: have v engines.\n\n: V4 - I don't know of any.\n: V6 - Legend, MR3? MR6?\n: V8 - Don't know of any.\n: V12 - Jaguar XJS\n\n\n: Please add to the list.\n", "ha! if i'm not on my bike, it's because its _broken_ and i'm _walkin_. (\nreally the way it should be)\n", " \nDrivel. I received delivery of my '93 Trans Am 7 weeks after I \nordered (promised 6-8 weeks), and paid $400 over dealer invoice, \nwhich is a $1425 discount off of MSRP. I only have about 370 \nmiles on it, but so far no problems, and it seems very well put \ntogether. By the way, first year production will be about 60,000 \ncars. Dealers would like you to think there is a shortage, but \nconsidering they only sold about 90,000 F bodies last year and the \nnew model was introduced mid-year, that is not going to create a \nshortage. GM planning on ramping to about 160,000 F bodies next \nyear (according to a WSJ article).\n \nSeveral people have mentioned seeing a photo of the '94 Mustang in \nPopular Mechanics. I saw a photo of it in Motor Trend January \n1993 issue (p30). Direct side on view. Although they described \nit as a \"seriously handsome car with broad shoulders,\" I thought \nit looked pretty boring in that view. Roofline reminded me of a \nToyota Celica (yuch!). Description of mechanicals same as has \nbeen reported from the PM article. \n \n", "\n\n\n\nYou'll have to kill off half the net. Maybe that isn't such a bad\nidea...", "\n\n\nWhile I can't think of any Corvettes with side mounted backup lights,\nI know that Saab started using them about 15 years ago. My 1975 Saab 99\ndidn't have them, but a friend's 1978 Saab 99 certainly did. In addition\nto the confentional tail-light mounted backup lights, they had another\nset integrated into the front turn signal assembly. For those of you who\ndon't remember, Saabs of that vintage had an enormous multicoloured plastic\ngrowth, about the size of a _National Geographic_ magazine, sticking out\nof the front fender, which incorporated amber \"parking lights\", amber side\nmarker lights/reflectors, white \"cornering lamps\" (like American luxury\ncars) aimed towards the side of the road when you have your turn indicators\non, and white \"backup lights\" aimed towards the back of the car when you\nhave selected reverse gear. The glossy brochure showed how these front\nmounted backup lights were useful for illuminating hazards (pot holes, kid's\ntoys, etc) that would be run over by the front of the car if you had the\nwheels turned while backing up.", "Hi,\nI need your help with a problem I have with a 1989 Mitsubishi\nGalant GS transmission. The car has a 5 speed manual tranmission.\nSince the car was bought new, while shifting from 2nd to 3rd, unless \nI do it SLOWLY and carefully, it makes a \"popping\" or \"hitting\" sound.\nThe dealer and Mitsubishi customer service (reached by an 800 #) say \nthis is NORMAL for the car. IS IT?\nAnd about a year ago, at 35Kmiles, the stick shift handle got STUCK\nwhile attempting to put it in reverse:\n 1- The shifter would not budge. The clutch had no effect.\n 2- The front tires would not budge, even when the clutch is\n fully depressed.\n 3- If the clutch is released the engine would die.\n 4- Assuming that some gear was engaged while the shifter was\n stuck, I could not make the car move. It acted as if\n it were in Neutral(except for dying when clutch is released.)\n 5- I finally was able to release the shifter by having \n someone rock the car back and forth (less than an inch),\n while I depressed the clutch and jiggled the shifter.\n 6- The shifter acted normally after that.\n\nWhen this happened, I took it to the dealer, they checked the \nclutch, it was o.k. They checked the transmission, it was o.k.\n\nI had the exact problem a couple of months ago, and again last\nweek. The dealer says there is nothing they can do because \nMitsubishi (the 800 #) says they have never heard of the\nproblem, and the dealer could not reproduce the problem while\nthey had the car. \nIn all three occurances, the car was parked head first in a garage,\nand since the front wheels were stuck, the car could not be towed\nto the dealer before releasing the shifter (hence temporarily\nsolving the problem). And the dealer, and Mitsubishi, refused to\nsend someone to check the car while it was stuck. \nI KNOW there is smething wrong with the transmission (shifting \nfrom 2nd to 3rd), and getting stuck at random, but I can't get \nthe dealer to fix it. I need your help with the mechanical problems, \nand with how to handle Mitsubishi. \nAll hints and suggestions are greatly appreciated, and sorry to\nbore you with the long post.", "Hello again.\n\nAnyone here done any tinting work. What are the best brands out there?\nHow about applications...I heard there was a water based brand that s\nyou can move around, till it's just right, and you then let it dry like that.\n\nAlso I would consider having it professionally done, how much around\nWisconsin or Chcago area, that does a decent job, fairly cheap. (college kid)\n\nThanks for all the info...\n\nPs. What is the maximum legal tint limit.", "\nThe quality of autobahns is something of a myth. The road surface\nisn't much different to a typical TX freeway. They are better\nin terms of lighting, safety, signs, roadmarkings etc. I'd have\nno problem driving 130 on most US freeways, as it is, I save it\nfor the backroads, which really are more likely to be dangerous.\n\n\nIt would have to be quite severe. I don't recall any US freeway,\nwithout road damage warnings, that i would regard as unsafe\nat 130 in any decent, well damped car. Note that my definition\nof decent, well damped, would exclude most typical American sedans.\n\n\nI don't know where you live, but I would be much more worried\nabout cops, other traffic etc. than the road surface at 130.\nIt just isn't that fast or that dangerous. If you have a Probe\nGT, no problem. The 4cyl models I have driven would be\nlikely to be unpredictable at higher speeds.", "\nPlace your hands flat on a table, and arrange the firing order from left to\nright.\n", "I know this is a long shot, but does anyone know what solvent I should \nuse to clean duct-tape adhesive from carpet?\nSomeone taped wires to the carpet, and now it is time to move out.\n\nIs the solvent the same as what's used to clean up the goop in coax?\n(whatever that is ... but it just barely ties this query into \nsci.electronics)\n\nThanks for your help\nBest regards,\nruck", "One of those \"morning, just getting the coffee in me\" thoughts:\n \n Waving at other bikers makes more sense than just \"Hey, how's it going, \nnice to meet you on the road, have a good ride\"\n \n 1) If you're watching for other bikes to wave to, it means your attention \nis on the road, where it should be, and you're more likely to see cages.", "Lexus es300, gs300, sc300, Infiniti J30, Dozens of others, including\ncommon cars like the Toyota Camry (as an option).\nLexus ls400, sc400, Acura Legend, Infiniti Q45, Lincoln Mark VIII, some\ncadillacs and other luxury autos.\n\nV10 - Dodge viper (?)\n\n\n", "\nTake this one step further ...\n\nNever dilly-dally in that rear 1/4 of either side of a cage - when you pass\nmake it as POSITIVE as possible and if you can't pass fully, at least make\nsure that if you attempt it you can make the driver aware of you by at least\ngetting into his area of vision.\n\nThis also applies to merging into another lane after making a pass - do it\nas POSITIVELY as possible ... and what I \"try\" to do is look in the rear view\nand then over my shoulder. And after I've done that ACCELERATE into the \nlane so that you have a speed cushion should you have missed seeing a \npotential BDI that's trying to do the same thing as you ... or worse (ie:\nhe may have been behind you, saw you made the pass successfully but YOU aren't\nGOING FAST ENOUGH to suite him so he tries to go around you on the right).\n\nRide with four eyes...\n\nRich\n", "\nThree, actually. I believe I discussed countersteering a horse\nbefore.\n\nBasically, there are two ways to steer a horse, plow-rein and\nneck-rein. Plow-reining steers him by keeping the reins separate, and\nyou pull in the direction you wish to go. Neck-reining steers a horse\nby holding the reins together in one hand, and pulling against the\nhorse's neck in the direction you wish to go. When training a\nplow-steering horse to neck-rein, one technique is to cross the reins\nunder his necks. Thus, when neck-reining to the left, the right rein\npulls against the right side of the neck, but the left side of the bit\n(which the horse is used to from his plow-reining days).\n\nAre you sorry you asked yet?\n", "\n\nI just installed a MC Power Arc II, and it seems to run great. I also\nused MC coils, and neither the ignition module or the coils required\nany new mounting holes to be drilled on my 92 FXSTC. A little soldering\nand all was fine. Static timing was real easy to set too. \n\nOn the other side of the coin, my local wrench, whose opinion I\ninvariably seek but don't always adopt, thinks MC Power Arc is a \"piece\nof shit\" and says \"all them Jap chips are gonna fail you one day\". \nNeedless to say, he doesn't like any electronic ignition modules, and\nrecommends the Dyna-S system. I think that's the one with the\nHall-effect timing sensor(s), correct?", "For those that are interested I got my fully optioned (Air, ABS,\nsunroof) '92 SE-R in September 1991 for $13,555 in Sacramento, CA. It\nwas one of the 1st '92s sold, few of the dealers had any, no local\ndealer had an ABS equipped SE-R. I went straight to the fleet manager\nat the dealership I liked, told him what I wanted, made him aware that I\nknew what his price should be. He called me back with exactly what I\nwanted from a dealer 125mi away, I took delivery the next day. \n", "I'm having an interesting problem with my girlfriend's car. Before\nI delve into its innards, I thought I'd check \"net.wisdom\" on the\nsubject. :)\n\nIt's a 1985 Buick Skyhawk (I know...I know)\n2.0l EFI 4-banger\nauto\n35k miles\n\nWhen I drive tha car long enough to get it hot (especially at\nhighways speeds) the transmission has this nasty habit of\ngetting \"stuck\" in 3rd gear. As a result, when you stop for\na light the motor stalls. Putting the car in park, and waiting\nfor 30-60 seconds before restarting sometimes allows the transmission\nto \"reset\" and go back into 1st. Otherwise, it just stalls when\nput in drive. \n\nMy thoughts: Either it the 3rd gear band is binding and getting\nstuck when it gets hot (not so likely) or perhaps the lock-up\nconverter is not disengaging properly (seems likely). The least\nlikely (keeping fingers crossed) is that some critical vacuum\nhose has broken/cracked and this behaviour is due to lack of\nvaccuum somewhere (as used to happen with old modulator valves).\n\nMy background is that my father owns a service station and\nI worked there on and off from 10-19 years of age. Please\nfeel free to be as technical as you want. :)\n\nI'd appreciate hearing any tips/suggestions/offers of free\nbeer. \n\nSkoal,", "\nI'd bet the price of the helmet that it's okay...From 6 feet\nor higher, maybe not.\n\n\nI'd wear the full facer, but then, I'd be *way* more worried\nabout wind blast in the face, and inability to hear police\nsirens, than the helmet being a little damaged.\n\n\n\nWell, my next helmet will be, subject to it fitting well, an AGV\nsukhoi. That's just because I like the looks. My current one is\na Shoei task5, and it's getting a little old, and I crashed in\nit once a couple of years ago (no hard impact to head...My hip\ntook care of that.). If price was a consideration I'd get\na Kiwi k21, I hear they are both good and cheap.\n\n\nBe *mildly* mildly paranoid about the helmet, but don't get\ncarried away. There are people on the net (like those 2% you\nmentioned) that do not consistently live on our planet...\n\nRegards, Charles\nDoD0.001\nRZ350", "Honda Accord_4_Cyl. LX Hatchback 3D 5 Speed '82 126,000 Miles\n\n with : AM/FM Stereo Cassette\n\n Clutch '89\n Alternator '90\n Battery '93\n Carburator '93 Rebuilt\n\n Registration expires FEB '94\n\n\n Asking price : $ 2150.00\n\n\n Please call 408-366-3570 (Fulvio)", "\n A 68 Corvette but, I don't want to put Corvette seats in it. The original\n seats are in exc. shape but they are uncomfortable as hell. I'm going to\n store those and find a set to drive in. I have all the Vette catalogs but\n I'm looking for a more generic type seat. I can modify the brackets but \n cushion height and overall width are a concern. I've looked through some\n local boneyards without success. I would just like to find a pair of \n cheapo's to use this summer. ", "\nDriving While Impared. It allows for prosecution of drivers under the\ninfluence of a variety of drugs.\n", "I'm selling the following items...\n\n\t- a pair of hard saddle bags \n\t- easy installation \n\t- snap release feature with lock\n\t- black \n\t- brand is Krusures\n\n\t- two oshi full face helmets\n\n\ttake all for $275\n\nThese are comming off of my bike that I'm selling, maybe \nyou could use the whole thing, bike and accessories.\n\n\t1983 Yamaha, vision 550 \n\n\tcall Medi @ work (415) 940-2306\n\t\t home (408) 744-1169\n\nThanks\n\n", "^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n \nMarkus, what is that we are noting about the spelling? That you aren't good at it? :^)\nThat Peugeot is OUT of N. America? What does this mean?", "\n\nNo, I don't watch that Bu**Sh*t.\n\n\nSo, does this mean the cop is at fault for rear-ending the bike? You know,\nfollowing too closely and reckless driving?\n", "Do you or does anyone you know have a wrecked 1981 or later R80(anything)\nor R100(anything) that they are interested in getting rid of? I need\na motor, but will buy a whole bike.\n\nemail replies to:\tDavid.Braun@FtCollinsCO.NCR.com\n\tor:\t\tdab@vuse.vanderbilt.edu", "Last night I had a dream that my dad bought a Viper.\nI took it out for a test drive, without his knowledge,\nand had to push it all the way home just to avoid a ticket.\nWierd dream, I wonder what it means....", "Hi Netters\n\tI want to know if 13500 (w/o tax) is a good deal for 1993 Mazda 626 DX\nHow is the performance review so far on Mazda 626. Is it a good buy?\nPlease reply to me as I don't read this group often.\n\nThanks In advance\nRavi\n--\nRavi Kiran Puvvala\t\t| \"The purpose of education is not merely, \nravi@merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com\t| the assimilation of facts but blow all \nMotorola Codex, Boston MA \t| the money\" - Ravi Puvvala", "\n\nI too, usually wear sunglasses inside my full face helmet to keep dirt & wind\nout of my contacts. Mumble, mumble, mumble ...\n", "\n:-)\n\nT'was a time when I could get a respectable response with a posting like that.\nRandy's post doesn't count 'cause he saw the dearth of responses and didn't \nwant me to feel ignored (thanks Randy!).\n\nI was curious about this DoD thing. How do I get a number? (:-{)}", "I'm about to undertake changing the fork seals on my '88 EX500. My Clymer\nmanual says I need the following tools from Kawasaki:\n\n57001-183 (T handle looking thing in illustration)\n57001-1057 (Some type of adapter for the end of the T handle)\n57001-1091 No illustration of this tool and the manual just refers to it\n as \"the kawasaki tool.\"\n57001-1058 Oil seal and bearing remover.\n\nHow necessary are these tools? Considering the dealers around here didn't\nhave the Clymer manual, fork seals, and a turn signal assembly in stock I\nreally doubt they have these tools in stock and I'd really like to get this\ndone this week. Any help would be appreciated as always.\n\n--\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\n ..vela.acs.oakland.edu!psgi!todd | '88 RM125 The only bike sold without\n Todd Doolittle | a red-line. \n Troy, MI | '88 EX500 \n DoD #0832 | ", "I test drove a Mazda 626 LX this past weekend and \nliked it.\n\nThe dealer offered it for $15K.\n\n1) Is this a good price?\n2) Any comments on 626 in general? \n\nPlease use email. Thanks \n", "\nDrive down to Cincinnati and take a look. Not pretty, is it?\nThings were much better there in 1980. All that growth went into\nthe hands of Ron and Georgie's pals, and I DIDN'T GET A SINGLE\nDIME OF IT, DAMMIT. And, now, I'm gonna be bled to death by tax\nleeches to pay for the damage. F***ing great.\n\nOh, here's another thing. Seems like a lot of people in \nColumbus drive over to Marysville and make Japanese cars. Hm.\nI wonder how many American-owned companies employ those in\nCentral Ohio? Other than Ohio State University. :)\n\ncpk\n-- \nIt's been 80 days. Do you know where your wallet is?", "\nIn Des Moines, Iowa, about a year ago, some kid dropped a rock from an \noverpass and hit car just behind the windshield. It put a dent in the roof, \nso I guess I was lucky it hit metal.\n\nIt's frustrating that we can't do much. Bother the city government to put\ncovers on all overpasses? Slow down/speed up a bit when driving under all\noverpasses in the city? I like the first better, but that will take time\nand lots of people talking to the city governments.\n\nJust another .02...\n", "I am in the market to buy a used car. I am particularly\ninterested in the Pontiac Bonneville. My budget is between 7-\n8 thousand. Would I be able to afford an 88 or 89. What\nengines were available at this time. I know they didn't\nredesign until the 1992 model year. How is the reliability of\npast models. I would appreciate any advice or information.", "\nYou make it sound like this behavior is new. It isn't. A lot of\npedestrian bridges have fencing that curls up over the sidewalk to\nmake this kind of think a lot harder to do.\n\nI don't understand the mentality myself, but then again I couldn't\nfigure out MOVE! (I'm glad they bombed 'em) or the Waco Wackos either.\n\n(Newsgroup list trimmed significantly)", "'63 to '82 vettes had the same basic chassis. 1980 add aluminum (weaker) \nrear 'axle' housing. All these years used same brakes, similar springs etc\n Late 70's was a bad year for GM reliability. Catastrophic converter was \nadded in 1975.\n\nCheapest corvette '78 to '79 low end about 4k tops out about $12k except \nfor those morooons that think there '78 indy / 25th aniversity vette is \nspecial. These guys have been known to ask 25K. I don't think they get it\n.\n\nBest buy: convertables 69 - 74. I got my 69 for 5K - needs body work but \nI'm willing. \n\nParts for all are readily avail at swap meets and mail order etc.\n\nV-8 reliability / looks / independant suspension / 4 wheel disk and all \nunder 10K. And they thought a miata was a good deal.\n\n\nMy origional inquires to my insurance agent: I can drive my '69 convertable \nfor 3000 miles or less per year, I must keep it in a locked garage and it \nwill cost me 2% of the stated value per year (does this sound right?).\n\n\nGet an appraiser to look at the car. He will check serial numbers and look \nfor origional equipe. Depending on what mods have been done the car could \nbe worth only 10K. Problems like wrong engine / trans. Wrong paint type (\nvetts used lacquer) An modification would reduce tthe value. But your \nlooking for a car to drive right?\n\nThis sounds like a ball park price for a small-block (327 cu in.) / manual \n/ no air car. A 427 would put it closer to $30K.", "Okay DoD'ers, here's a goddamn mystery for ya !\n\nToday I was turning a 90 degree corner just like on any other day, but there\nwas a slight difference- a rough spot right in my path caused the suspension\nto compress in mid corner and some part of the bike hit the ground with a very\ntangible \"thunk\". I pulled over at first opportunity to sus out the damage. \nMy bike is a Kawasaki GPX250R with footpegs that are hinged and sprung such\nthat they fold upward and backward on contact with ground etc., and on the\nlower extreme corner of each peg there is mounted a \"bank-follower\", or a\nlittle stud that theoretically is the first bit to hit the ground in a\n100%-banked turn. The stud is mounted on the footpeg by a threaded bit about 7\nmm long, which screws into a threaded hole in the footpeg. Now for the\nmystery.\n\nThe stud on the side of the bike that clunked when I turned was absent. I'm\nfairly sure it was there before the event. There was no damage to the end of\nthe footpeg where the stud would ordinarily have been. In fact, the thread in\nthe hole in the footpeg was perfectly intact, with no evidence of something\nhaving been forcefully ripped out of it only moments previously. \n\nOkay all you engineering types, how the f**k do you explain this ? How can you\nrip a tightly fitting steel thread out of a threaded hole (in alloy) without\ndamaging the thread in the hole ? Is this some sort of hi-tech design thingo\nthat Kawasaki never mentioned, like that the end of the footpeg suddenly\nchanges phase on impact, to let the stud rip out, then changes back to a solid\n? I'm quite amazed at how this could have happened. In the meantime, life\ngoes on, without a left-hand bank-follower.", "From article <1993Apr5.200048.23421@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, by lorenzo@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Eric Lorenzo):\n\n--Let me put it like this. The only similarity between the three models\n is the \"300\", or 3-liter engine displacement. Actually, the SC300 (the\n coupe) and the GS300 (the funky-looking new sedan) share the same 3.0\n liter inline-six, and the ES300 (popular small sedan) uses 3.0 V6 shared\n with the Camry. The SC300 is a luxury/sports coupe, the GS300 is the new\n luxury sedan, and the ES300 is the base executive sedan. All three look\n completely different.\n\n--Aamir Qazi\n-- ", "In response to a post about SUV's, I got several unsolicited recommendations to\ncheck out the Land Cruiser, despite its astronomical price.\nThe Toyota dealer told me it's a \"cult car\".\nIf a car is good enough to create a passionate and loyal following, there\nmust be something really extraordinary about it.\nSo, all you Land Crusher Cultists - here is your chance to convert me.\n", "\nThat would be the Opel GT, sold in this country from '69 to '73. It originally\nhad a 1100 cc engine, which was later replaced by the 1900 cc. It was based\non the old Kadett drive train and suspension, with leaf springs in the rear\nand a single transverse leaf spring in the front. It looked good, but was\nlimited as a performer.\n\nThere has also been some discussion in this thread about the Manta and other\nmodels. In 1971 Opel introduced a new line of models, the 1900 series, that\nwere also known as model numbers 51, 57, etc. These cars had the newer\n1900cc engine and were available as two and four-door coupes, a station wagon,\nand a \"sport coupe\", known in Europe as the Manta. At the same time, there\nwere two 30-series cars, which sold very few numbers, that also had the 1900\nengine but the Kadett suspension. The sport coupe, (model 57) was also\navailable as the Rallye, (57R), with a blacked out hood, tach, and fog lights,\nbut was mechanically the same except for a numerically higher rear end ratio.\n\nIn 1973 the sport coupe was also named the Manta in the US. 1973 was the last\nyear for the GT in any country, both because of the US bumper height regulations\nand the fact that FIAT exercised an option on the factory that Opel was leasing\nto build the GTs.\n\nThe 1900 series continued in 1974 with minor body differences. In 1975, the\nManta, 1900 sedan (also called the Ascona) and the wagon were available with\nBosch electronic fuel injection. These cars also had larger brakes and\nwider wheels. These cars were starting to compete with the 1975 Buick Century\nlow price leader of the time, and were the last Opels imported into the US.\n\nFrom 1976 to 1979, cars that sported Buick/Opel badges were still sold by\nthe Buick dealers, but were rebadged Isuzu I-marks. The idea was to call them\nOpels instead of changing the dealers' neon signs.\n\nVarious models of the 50-series cars dominated the Showroom Stock racing of the\n70's in their class, and were known as serious 2002-competition.\n\nParts are still available from a number of sources.\n\n(I still have a '73 manta and two '75 sedans and all the trick parts I could\ncollect in 20 years).", "From article <1r1i7mINN4n4@cronkite.cisco.com>, by kmac@cisco.com (Karl Elvis MacRae):\n\nI agree that the Toyota is the best looking I just didn't fit plus it is the\nhighest cost of all the ones you mentioned. I have good friends who have all\nthree of the trucks you talked about, the ones with kids all went to the\nford because of the room required to carry a couple of kids and all the junk\nyou need. The single ones went for the Toyota and the Nissan. Every one has\nbeen happy with what they bought. Although no one is into serious four wheel\noff road driving.\n", "\nHmmmmmmmmm. I can read this one of two ways:\n\n1) Ed gotabike.\n2) Motorcyclist is like alcoholic. (once you're an alcoholic, you're always\nan\n alcoholic - at least that's what\nfriends in\n a position to know tell me)\n\n tom coradeschi <+> tcora@pica.army.mil", "I am in the process of looking for a half decent aftermarket sport exhaust\nfor my 1981 BMW 320i. So far, I have found a Pacesetter exhaust for $219\nand an Ansa exhaust for $190 (Canadian funds). I was wondering if anyone\ncould tell me anyhting about either of these exhausts or any other possible\nexhausts that I may be interested in. My main priorities are a decent horse\npower increase (5-30%) and a nice low note to go along with that added power.\nI was also thinking of looking into both Remus and Leistritz exhausts.Has \nanyone got anything to say about these? I am mainly looking for the muffler\nonly but if anyone can find a good deal on a whole kit I would be willing to\ngo after that. I also would like to know how much these would cost me in the \nStates.Please mail me back if you have any information.", "\n I was wondering if anyone can shed any light on just how it is that these\nelectronic odometers remember the total elapsed mileage? What kind of\nmemory is stable/reliable enough, non-volatile enough and independent enough\n(of outside battery power) to last say, 10 years or more, in the life of a\nvehicle? I'm amazed that anything like this could be expected to work for\nthis length of time (especially in light of all the gizmos I work with that\nare doing good to work for 2 months without breaking down somehow).\n\nSide question: how about the legal ramifications of selling a used car with\na replaced odometer that starts over at 0 miles, after say 100/200/300K\nactual miles. Looks like fraud would be fairly easy - for the price of a\nnew odometer, you can say it has however many miles you want to tell the\nbuyer it has.\n\nThanks for any insight.\n", "Apparently, the only place to take the MSF course around\nhere in NC is at a community college.\n\nThat woudl preclude some sort of state\nsubsidation, then, no?\n", "\nSorry 'bout that - Mine is a '91 model non-turbo 2.0. (with ABS and revised\nsuspension (whatever revised means)). I'm in Australia, so we always seem to \nget the versions without extras which the Europeans and Americans get as \nstandard.\n\nMy query is, - why does the noise get noticeably LOUDER about 2-3 months after\nan oil change. I just find it a bit wierd that this happens. Is it the oil I'm\nusing (Mobil 1) or is it the engine (the 3S-GE version/model) ie. gets\nnoiser the older the oil is (I'm only guessing). \n\nIts not annoyingly distressing or anything, but just slightly puzzling.\n", "The best thing to do is to get a full face, even if it is a\ncheap brain bucket. I didn't think a full face was important\nuntil I took a gnarly spill and ended up sliding 20 feet on my\nface. Plus with the visor down, you also have no worries about\nyour contacts.\n", "\nI don't know about trains, but I've saw a sign on the back of a\nGreyhound bus that warns you that your radar detector may be set off.\nIt doesn't explain why, but it does set off my radar detector.", "1989 Honda CRX DX, White w/Blue int. \n\t Original owner, 59,500 miles, mostly highway.\n\t Recent tune-up, new battery\n\t Oil changed every 3000 miles\n\t Kenwood high power cassette receiver, w/ 4 spkrs\n\t $6800 or best reasonable offer", "\nOn my 59 sporty I had some pinhole leaks open up on the back seam. I kreme\nit about a year ago and have had no problems at all. Be real careful as\nthe cleaning part of the solution is hell on paint.\n -Jim\n", "\nWater. Nuclear stations don't generate electricity directly from the\nreactor, they use the reactor to generate heat. The heat is then used to\nheat water just as in a conventional oil or coal station, and the\nresultant steam drives the turbines.\n\nThe cooling towers are used to cool the steam and recondense it into water\nto continue the cycle\n\nSteve\n", "I just wanted to thank all the netters out there who either\nposted a response or sent e-mail regarding my ignition kill\nquestion. Now that I know how simple a procedure it is, it\nlooks like I'll be paying my local Pep Boys a visit this\nweekend....", "I'm new to this group and this may have been discussed already, in which case\nmy apologies, but...\n\nI have a '92 Integra with an auto box. According to the manual the car has\na lock up torque converter, or something similar.\n\nWhat is it, what does it do and how does it work?\n\n(Excuse my ignorance).\n\nDoes anybody know?\n\n--Parms.", "[]\n\n\t\"I read an article in the 3/25 Chicago Tribune stating that\n\tChrysler is having problems addressing the demand for the 3.5L\n\tengine for it's LH cars. Can anyone post how long they are\n\twaiting for an ordered car or how long they have been told\n\tthey'll have to wait??\"\n\nOrdered mine December 30, got it nine weeks later. But the dealer said\nthat *new* orders were being held up -- he didn't expect to see any\nmore 3.5L-engine LHs for awhile.", "\nA verrrrrry long time, like on the order of days. I had the pleasure of\ndoing that once (playing with the speedo cable) and with my B&D heavy duty at\nfull speed (600 rpm) all the speedo ever got up to was 30 MPH. Now if you go\na high speed drill and ran it at say 4000 rpm, you could get 200 MPH out of\nit. (If you speedo doesn't burn out.) Anyways, to roll a 100000 Mile\nodometer would take 22 days or so. Much easier just to take the speedo\napart.\n\nThought I'd share. BTW, all this info was obtained legally :-)\n\n", "Has anyone any experience with the (new?) Yamaha Cyclelok ?\n\nIt looks like it uses the same hardened steel as a Kryptonite U lock,\nbut unlike a U lock, it is hinged in 5 places and opens out to a large\nrectangle (longer length than any U lock I have seen, plus it folds down\nto real small), so you could lock the rear tire to a steel post for example.\n\nI was curious as to how well the jointed sections would stand up to attack ?\n\ntony", "\nAccusation? I thought it was a recommendation. (I mean, I did grow up there,\nI oughta know).\n\n\nBring the truck and about 10 pounds of crawfish and we'll talk.\n\n\n", "\n\nand skill. If you haven't done it before, it can be dangerous. It takes\nsome getting used to. Read Ed's list.\n", "I have a Uniden visor clip sized radar detector with x, k, and ka band forsale. Has city/highway and audio/mute options and comes with cigarette lighter attachment. I'm asking $50. Please e-mail replies to jth@bach.udel.edu", "\nOn a related note (since UPS lost my Chain Wax and I'm still using PJ-1/Goo),\nI found some great stuff to clean chain spooge of wheels. It's called\nGoo Gone and cleaned the spooge off my rear wheel faster than the Simple\nGreen cleaned the bug guts off my headlight. Wonderful stuff. I recommend\nthat we officially delcare it a DoD Wonder Spooge (tm) product.\n\n", "As you can see, I have two 1987 cars, both worth about $3000 each.\nThe problem is that maintenance costs on these two cars is\nrunning about $4000 per year and insurance $3000 per year.\n\nWhat am I doing wrong?\n\nWithin the last two months, the follows costs have occured:\n\nDodge 600 SE (Dodge's attempt at the American German car!)\n\n$1,000 - replace head gasket\n$300 - new radiator\n\nChevy Nova CL (Chevy's attempt at a Japan import!)\n\n$500 - tune-up,oil change,valve gasket,middle exhaust pipe, misc.\n\nNote also that the Chevy Nova CL (1987) has only 70 horsepwer!\nDoes anyone out there have a Chevy Nova with enough power\nto get up even a small hill without knocking? Is there\nsomething wrong with my car, I even use 93 octane gas!\n(I have consider going to 110 octane if I can find it!)\n\nAnyway, what are the best maintenance items to do-it-yourself,\nand what equipment is needed? ", "\nSuggest McQuires #1 plastic polish. It will help somewhat but nothing \nwill remove deep scratches without making it worse than it already is.\nMcQuires will do something for fine or light stuff.\n\nAlso suggest calling your local plastic shop. In Calif. \"TAP PLASTIC\" is\na chain that carries most of what is needed for repair and sometimes\nreplacement of plastic bits. Telephone in the Bay area is 415-962-8430.\nI'm not sure how amenable they are to shipping. I have found that they\nhave several excellent products for cleaning, and removing crap from\nwindscreens and face shields. Also they have one called \"lift-it\" which\nworks real well in removing sticky stuffs such as adhessives from plastic\nwihtout scratching same.\n\nLuck,", "Hi. I have been thinking about buying a Motorcycle or a while now and I have\nsome questions:\n\n-Is there a buying guide for new/used motorcycles (that lists reliability, how\nto go about the buying process, what to look for, etc...)?\n-Is there a pricing guide for new/used motorcycles (Blue Book)?\n\nAlso\n-Are there any books/articles on riding cross country, motorcycle camping, etc?\n-Is there an idiots' guide to motorcycles?\n\nANY related information is helpful. Please respond directly to me.", "For Sale:\n\nFitted car cover specifically for '91',92,'93 MR-2.\n\nTop of the line Evolution-3 [TM] fabric. Used for less than 6 months.\nThe cover is in excellent condition-no rips, cuts, stains or other\nblemishes. It has grommets for a locking cable. The color is silver.\n\nPrice: $90 f.o.b. will ship collect\n\n\nplease contact wchutt@monsanto.com\n\nor phone at", "In reference to the limits of acceleration with guns launching solid\nrockets as payloads. Thiokol provided me with samples and data on\na reinforcement to solid motor grains for high accelerations. Solid\nmotor propellants usually have a substantial percentage of \naluminum in the mix. For example, the Space Shuttle SRBs are 16 percent\nAluminum. The technique is to use a 'foamed aluminum' structure.\nThe structure looks like the inverse of a set of bubbles (an I suspect\nsome bubbling process is used to form it). In other words, if you made\na bunch of bubbles in molten aluminum, then froze it, this is what\nyou get. It forms a strong network of effectively aluminum wires in\nall directions. The remaining solid fuel mix is infiltrated into\nthe voids, and you get aluminum-reinforced solid propellant. The\nfoamed-aluminum makes up about 6 percent of the total propellant,\nso there is still aluminum particles in the bulk grain. The major\nimprovement is the higher resistance to grain cracking, which is the\nprincipal failure mode for solid propellant.\n\nDani Eder\n", "Various posts about shafties can't do wheelies:\n\n\nUh, folks, the shaft doesn't have diddleysquatpoop to do with it. I can get\nthe front wheel off the ground on my /5, ferchrissake!", "\nWhile your 0-60 time is consistent with most car magazines and reports, I saw\nthe PBS MotorWeek show clock a 5-speed SL2 at 7.9 seconds. I'm sure that most\nSL2 owners will be VERY lucky to get this speed, but 7.9 seconds is still\nastonishingly fast for a small 4-door. A new Civic EX runs about 8.2 seconds\n0-60, if I'm not mistaken. Most cars in this class are lucky to be in the\n9-second range.\n", "Why crawl under the car at all? I have a machine I got for my boat that \npulls the oil out under suction through the dip stick tube. It does an\nexcellent job and by moving the suction tube around, you can get more \nold oil out than by using the drain plug. I think I paid $25 at E&B Marine.\nThe oil goes into a steel 3 gal can - wait until it cools and decant into\nyour favorite device. I use soft drink bottles. Easy to take them down to\nthe local oil recycle center.", "\nYou'll have fun looking for the rear-end gears on an SHO--the Taurus\nis a front-wheel-drive vehicle...\n\nI went back and checked the article again; The SHO Wagon is quicker\nthan the SHO automatic, but significantly slower than the REAL SHO.\n\nWhy anyone would order an SHO with an automatic transmission is\nbeyond me; if you can't handle a stick, you should stick with a\nregular Taurus and leave the SHO to real drivers. That is not to\nsay that there aren't real drivers who can't use the stick (eg\ndisabled persons), but they aren't in any position to use an\nSHO anyway. \n\nI would be willing to bet that if we removed the automatic\ntransmissions from all \"performance-type\" cars (like the 5.0l\nMustangs, Camaros, and the like) we'd cut down on the number of\naccidents each year. Autos are fine for sedate little sedans,\nbut they have no business in performance cars, IMHO.\n\n\t\t\t\tJames", "\n\n\n\nI don't have any written data but I know what I have experienced. I use \nS-50 in everything including my lawnmowers. In my car it smoothed the idle\nand reduced the operating temp by 5 degrees. I havent used it long enough \nto test for wear, but some people I know have. \n A farmer that lives near by used to have to overhaul his big deisel tractors\nat least every other year if not every year. Since he has been using S-50\nhe has went 5 years without an overhaul.\n\nAlso a friend at a machine shop has in the past rebuilt engines with 200K\nmiles on them because the coustomer thought it was time. These coustomers\nhad ran S-50 since almost new. It was found when measuring the internals\nof the engine that they showed only about the amount of wear that would be\nexpected of 30K miles not 200K.", "As summer approaches, the usual preparations are being made...\n\nMe was thinking of going for some overnite camping trips in the local\nstate forests. For that I was planning to get a backpack/rucksack. \nThe next question is how shall I carry the thing on the bike, given\nthe metal frame and all. I have a big backrest (approx 12\" high) and\nwas hoping that I would be able to bungee cord the backpack to the backrest.\n\nAny one have any experiences on such experimentation?\n\nTaking the idea further, what would happen if the backpack was fully\nloaded with a full load (40lbs). Is the load distribution going to \nbe very severly affected? How will the bike perform with such a load \nclinging to the back rest. If I really secure it, with no shifting, \ndo I still increase my chances of surfing?\n\n\nCollective r.m. wisdom requested. \n\n\np.s. I really can't afford leather pants. Boots and jeans are\nall I can make do with. What you think of the knee protectors\nwhich rollerbladers use - the one L.L.Bean and like sells. Is \nthat a Bad Idea (tm). Are there any equivalents?\n\n\n\n-- \n '81 CB650 \t\t\t\t\t\tDoD #1224", "\n\nWere.\n\nIn urban areas.", "Sanjay Sinha, on the 12 Apr 93 00:23:19 GMT wibbled:\n\n: Thanks to everyone who posted in my previous quest for camping info..\n\n: Another question. \n: Well, not strictly r.m. stuff\n\n: I am looking for a thermos/flask to keep coffee hot. I mean real\n: hot! Of course it must be the unbreakable type. So far, what ever\n: metal type I have wasted money on has not matched the vacuum/glass \n: type.\n\n: Any info appreciated.\n\n: Sanjay\n\n\nBack in my youth (ahem) the wiffy and moi purchased a gadget which heated up\nwater from a 12V source. It was for car use but we thought we'd try it on my\nRD350B. It worked OK apart from one slight problem: we had to keep the revs \nabove 7000. Any lower and the motor would die from lack of electron movement.\n\nIt made for interesting cups of coffee, anyhow. We would plot routes that\ncontained straights of over three miles so that we had sufficient time to\nget the water to boiling point. This is sometimes difficult in England.\n\nGood luck on your quest.\n--\n\nNick (the Biker) DoD 1069 Concise Oxford\n\nM'Lud.", "No, the Grand canyon is not too far away. Short side trips to Kolob\n(between Cedar City and Hurricane) and Pipe Springs (on the way from\nHurricane to the Grand Canyon) may be interesting--they are right\noff the highway. Pipe Springs (a small fort) gives you real insight\ninto just how the pioneers lived. You have missed one major must\nsee attraction--Cedar Breaks in the mountains above cedar city.\nTake lots of film--they have a reason for calling this kodachrome\ncountry. Natural Bridges in the four corners area is also very\nscenic, but may be too far off your route. Monument valley is\nspectacular, but again may be too far away.", "\nPrestone. I buy it at ShopKo for less \nthan that a _gallon_. BMW has even more\nexpensive stuff than Kawasaki (must be \nfrom grapes only grown in certain parts of\nthe fatherland), but BMW Dave* said \"Don't \nworry about it -- just change it yearly and\nkeep it topped off\". It's been keeping \nGretchen happy since '87, so I guess it's OK.\n\nKept my Rabbit's aluminum radiator hoppy for\n12 years and 130,000 miles, too, so I guess\nit's aluminum safe. \n\n*Former owner of the late lamented Rochester \nBMW Motorcycles and all around good guy.\n\n-- \n\n\n Pooder - Rochester, MN - DoD #591 \n -------------------------------------------------------------------------\n \"What Do *You* Care What Other People Think?\" -- Richard Feynman \n -------------------------------------------------------------------------\n I share garage space with: Gretchen - '86 K75 Harvey - '72 CB500 ", "\nDefinitely!\n\nSafety is an important criterium for me when buying a car. I won't buy a \nsmall car like a Civic or whatever.\n\nGreat = Safety + Handling + Speed - for me\n\nSeems to me that you would be more \"dead\" in a small car than a large car \nafter an accident.", "From article <1993Apr16.162950.25849@newsgate.sps.mot.com>, by markm@bigfoot.sps.mot.com (Mark Monninger):\n\n\nA couple of months ago I went to a dealership to test drive a car. Afterwards,\nwe sat down to discuss prices. I explained that I wanted a car just like the\none I drove, but in a different color. He said he could get one exactly like\nI wanted from the dealer network within a day. We then negotiated a price and\nsigned the deal.\n\nNext day, I get a call. He explains that they goofed, and they had neglected\nto take into account a price increase. (The last price increase had occurred\nover 4 months prior to my visit.) If I still wanted the car, I would\nhave to fork over another $700. As an alternative, they would honor the\nprice if I bought the car I test drove (which had been sitting around for \n6 months and had a few miles on it). I said goodbye. This was a good\nexample of how they can lowball you and still cover their butts. It's too\nbad more people don't demand honesty or these types of dealers would\nno longer be in business. \n\nThe next dealership I went to was straightforward and honest. First thing the\nsalesman said was, \"Lets's see what you have for dealer cost and work out\nhow much profit I should make.\" The deal went through with no problems.", "I need some advice on having someone ride pillion with me on my 750 Ninja.\nThis will be the the first time I've taken anyone for an extended ride\n(read: farther than around the block :-). We'll be riding some twisty, \nfairly bumpy roads (the Mines Road-Mt.Hamilton Loop for you SF Bay Areans).\n\nThis person is <100 lbs. and fairly small, so I don't see weight as too much\nof a problem, but what sort of of advice should I give her before we go?\nI want her to hold onto me :-) rather than the grab rail out back, and\nI've heard that she should look over my shoulder in the direction we're\nturning so she leans *with* me, but what else? Are there traditional\nsignals for SLOW DOWN!! or GO FASTER!! or I HAFTA GO PEE!! etc.???\n\nI really want this to be a positive experience for us both, mainly so that\nshe'll want to go with me again, so any help will be appreciated...\n\nThanks,\n -Bob-", "MK48T02 from thomsom. It has a timekeeper (clock) and 512 bytes of NVRAM which\nhas a lithium battery backup. The battery has a life of ~10 years of poweroff\noperation. Installed in a car it could be left powered on continuously and not\ndraw much current. The battery would only be used when your auto battery was\ndead or had been removed.\n\n\nIn California they have a line on the transfer of ownership form which states\nthat the odometer mileage is correct. If incorrect you are required to \nfill in what you know (or guesstimate) to be the correct mileage. If you\nlie on this form and are caught you can be prosecuted and the buyer can\nsue you for the value of the mileage differential.", "\n\nWow, is that custom made?\n\nI wish I could get chain drive for my slashfive so\nI _too_ can do wheelies and be real squiddly.\n\n", "Can anyone recommend a good place for reasonably priced bike paint jobs, preferably but not essentially in the London area. \n\nThanks \n\nLisa Rowlands", "Hello Folks,\n\nI'm very happy with my \"new\" R80GS. My range is 238 miles on 4.8 gallons...\nthat's 50 mpg!! Surprisingly, the bike is a real cruiser. I was expecting\nsomething rough. She's a sweet backroad honey. And I can go pretty much\nanyplace I'd take my mountain bike. As far as shaft effect, it's more a \ntorque effect from the crankshaft in my opinion. Rev it sitting still\n(when the driveshaft is not moving) and the bike twists a bit. Maybe\nI don't ride her fast enough to get a shaft effect, but in my opinion\na little buffeting by wind is of far greater consequence. Okay, here are \nmy questions:\n\n1) Any recommendations for a home-made fairing? I'd like to keep the\nwind off my chest, and perhaps my helmet, for comfort at highway speeds\n(70 mph), yet don't want to (a) screw up the stability or (b) block my\nvision too much for trail riding. Anybody have luck with two-piece \ndetachible fairings? I'd like to make it myself out of plexiglas.\n\n2) I run two lights, the standard headlamp plus a sidelamp mounted on the\ncrash bar. The illumination's excellent that way, with a full beam coming\nout from the level of the motor (left side); the lamp beam is linear so\nthat you get a bright streak of illumination from left to right, and it \nreally picks up the periphery (deer lurking, etc.) Combined with the \nheadlamp on high you can see like day. But I've heard that BMW alternators\ndon't crank out too much. Do I need to shut down the sidelamp when I'm\nputtering around in the dirt at low RPM? \n\n3) This is embarassing: I'm having trouble starting the bike first thing\nin the morning. I invariably flood the carbs, then go in and read a section\nof the paper, and then she starts right up. Is this a Zen thing? \n\n4) The Hayne's manual says do not under any circumstances use gasoline\nwith alcohol additives... Yeah, right. What do you folks due to keep\nthe engine and carbs from being eaten by ethanol and methanol? Any \nparticular brands of gas that are best? Additives?\n\nThanks,", "I saw an interesting product in NY Auto Show, and would like to \nhear your comments.\n\nMILITECH(tm) is yet another oil additive. But the demonstration of this\nproduct really impressive, if it didn't cheat.\n\nThe setup of the demo is fairly simple. A cone shaped rotor is\nhalf submerged in a small oil sink, filled with motor oil. The rotor\nis powered by an electronic motor. A metal pad is pressed against\nthe rotor using the torque wrench until the rotor stopped by friction. \nThe torque that is needed to stop rotor is read from the torque wrench.\n\nBefore MILITECH was added, the rotor was stopped with about 60 lb-ft\nof torque (You pick the brand of oil, no difference). Once MILITECH was \nadded to the oil, the rotor could not be stopped even with 120+ lb-ft of\ntorque. \n\nHere is the good part: even after the salesman emptied the oil sink, \nyou still could not stopped the rotor with the thin film remained on it.\n\nThey say you need only add 2oz per quart of oil every 15k miles. A 16 oz\nbottle is $25.\n\nI still have my doubts. If this product is really so great, why it was\nso little known? The salesman said it is widely used in military. I didn't\nbelieve it. The demo was so impressive, that I bought a bottle against\nmy common sense.\n\nHas anyone heard of or actually used this product? Is it real?\nIf you are going to the auto show, please visit this stand on the \nsecond floor. See if can find out if the demo is a hoax or not.", ": To wheelspin in an auto, you keep the gear in N - gas it - then stick the \n: gear in D... I've never tried this but am sure it works - but does this screw \n: up the autobox? We're having a bit of a debate about it here...\n\nI've known more people to leave their rear ends in pieces doing this, \nespecially if they have reasonable power to transmit and good traction\non the road surface.\n\nYou're better off powerbraking.", "I'm a biker and a dog-lover.\n\nFirst and foremost, I want to mention some common sense. If it's a choice\nbetween injuring/killing a dog or getting yourself injured/killed, there is\nonly one rational decision. Only the most insane animal rights kook would put\nthe dog first.\n\nSecond, it's useful to learn how to read a dog's body language. How you react\nto a dog who is chasing you because he thinks it's a game (and that you're\nplaying with him) is completely different from how you react to a dog which\nhas hostile intent.\n\nThird, it's useful to learn how to present yourself to a dog. Dogs are social\nbeasts, and recognize a domination/submission hierarchy. To a dog, there are\ntwo types of fellow-creatures; that which he dominates, and that which\ndominate him. You need to unambiguously represent yourself as being of the\nlatter class. You are God: you are easily angered and your anger is terrible.\nBut God is also amused by one who properly submits to His dominance, and may\neven on rare occasions dispense a kind word, a kind word, or even (oh joy oh\nrapture unforeseen) A Dog Bisquit!\n\nNow, how does that all relate to biking? Well, first, it's a good idea to\nassume that most dogs who chase motorcycles do so because they think it's a\ngame, and not out of overt hostility. The MSF suggestion is a very good one;\nwhen you see the dog coming, slow down so he determines a particular place of\ninterception. Just before you (and he) reach that spot, punch the throttle so\nthat when he reaches it you're already long gone. Dogs take a few seconds to\nreact to new input, and definitely cannot comprehend the acceleration that a\nmotorcycle is capable of.\n\nWith a hostile dog, or one which you repeatedly encounter, stronger measures\nmay be necessary. This is the face off. First -- and there is very important\n-- make sure you NEVER face off a dog on his territory. Face him off on the\nroad, not on his driveway. If necessary, have a large stick, rolled up\nnewspaper, etc. (something the beast will understand is something that will\nhurt him). Stand your ground, then slowly advance. Your mental attitude is\nthat you are VERY ANGRY and are going to dispense TERRIBLE PUNISHMENT. The\nlarger the dog, the greater your anger.\n\nDogs will pick up anger, just as they can pick up fear. And, since you and he\nare not on his home territory, it may suddenly dawn on the dog that perhaps he\nis on your territory, and that you are prepared to fight to the death.\n\nMost dogs will decide that it is a good idea to retreat to their own territory\nwhere there is at least a home advantage. They'll also observe that you are\nsatisfied by that retreat (gesture of submission) and thus they have escaped\npunishment.", "\n\n\n\tMaryland and other states.\n\n\tTo the original poster:\n\n\tRead the last 3-4 issues of Car And Driver about this. It's \ninteresting and should be illegal... \n\n", "\n\n\n\nThey bein' themfolk who tend to compose fair piece of the population;\nbein the ones that regard bikers as a loud, irresponsible, irreverent,\nreprobate rabble. \nSure you didn't rape and pillage-- It's a relief to know that you were\nsuch gentlemen-- but because you were not completely out-of-hand you \njustify your lesser indescretions? Some pretty distorted thinking, I\nshould say. \nOh-- I'm sorry, I just noticed that you left mucho bucks (as in MONEY)...\nNevermind my criticism, I was out of line. I forgot that when one leaves\nmucho bucks (as in MONEY) their behavior is permissable, perhaps even \njustified.\n\nKeep in mind that \"themfolks\" are the ones that could give a %$#@! when \na biker gets killed, when *their* elected officials institute further\ndraconian legislation (helmet laws, gun controls, etc.), the ones that don't \nrespect our rights on the roads because we do not respect theirs all \"the\nrest of the time...\"\nNeed I continue?\n\nSo continue to wear your stigma as a badge, but the next time you are\nwhining about \"them\" and the effect of their values on yours, remember\nthat it was probably the behavior of self-righteous wusses like myself\nthat kept \"them\" at bay for this long.\n\nEnjoy,\n", "\n\n\nTalk to Philip Greenspun. He took Ford to court recently and, despite much\nmanouvering and trickery on Ford's part, he won! Well, actually I think\nFord settled out of court on the provision he shut his mouth and stopped \ncausing them trouble. I love it when the little guy wins. I don't have\nPhilip's address anymore, but a \"Philip, where are you\" call may bring him\nout of hiding.\n\nCheers,\nPaul.", "\n\nSqueaky BMW riders.\n\n\n", "A few random thoughts on riding with a passenger:\n\nThere's no substitute for a bike with sufficient power, having taken\npassengers very occasionally on the small (125 etc) bikes I used to\nride in the UK it was hard ! I'm now riding a GS1100 and that's great,\neven moving from my freinds GSX600 I was riding recently. This may be due\nin part to the fact that neither I, nor my regular passengers, are\nparticularly slimline !\n\nI always tell passengers, stay in line with the bike on corners, that makes\ntheir movements predictable.\n\nMy regular passengers both tend to hold either the rack or nothing at all,\nI don't really like having a passenger hold onto me except for short periods.\nAgain that may be biased by the fact that I've had a couple of new passengers\n(a friend recently for her first time on a bike) who hold on to me real tight,\nmaking any kind of maneuvering difficult.\n\nI've also discovered that on longer trips I prefer a passenger who moves and\nshifts their weight a bit. I recently took a work collegue to a meeting (about\na 1 hour ride) and he sat totally still the whole way which left me also\nsitting very still and getting a sore back.\n\nWe have a code system for turns, stop and for 'I need to shift position'.", "\nMy Honda has a cable release that can be locked out with the ignition key.\nThe valet key can be left with someone and will NOT unlock the trunk\nor enable the cable release.", "\nThis kind of behavior is what I was shocked by in my 'experience'. For \ncrying out loud, how do these turkeys think they can talk to customers \nthis way and still stay in business? Again, I don't expect sales people to \nbow, scrape, and grovel in my presence but I sure don't expect to be \nabused either. I was very surprised by the way the sales people talked to \nme and in other 'negotiating' sessions I overheard in neighboring sales \ncubicles. Evidently, their success rate is high enough that they continue \nto do business this way. There must be a lot of people out there who are \neasy to intimidate.\n\nOn the other hand, I'm not sure about the 'one price, no haggling' \napproach that Saturn and other are starting to use. I guess if their fixed \nprice is fair it's OK. Maybe the best approach is to do your homework \nbefore you go in. Find out the invoice prices of the car, add a reasonable \nprofit for the dealer ($200-$300??), offer them that price and stick to \nit. If they get abusive, just leave. Then, don't let them try to screw you \nafter the deal is agreed on.", "\nDress casual. Only in heaven is there a dress code (black tie and\nself-important expression)", "For those of you who are thinking about fiamms, you might also want to think\nabout airhorns. I just installed a set of Bosch air horns ordered from \nDennis Kirk (pg. 282 of the latest catalog) on my '85 FJ1100. They are rated\nat 93db at 7 meters. I installed them using 10 gage wire from the battery to\nthe relay to the compressor to ground. My stock horn connectors fit the relay\npins just fine. I soldered the connections to the relay and compressor, and used\na crimp type battery connector and an inline 10amp fuse/connector from NAPA.\n\tI installed the compressor just forward of the fuse box in the front\nfairing by tie wrapping between the steering head frame and the black steel tube\nframe used to support the front fairing. You have to remove the front fairing to\ndo this, but it fits outside of the frame but inside the fairing on the two\nvertical supports just in front of the fuses. Depending how tight your fairing\nfollows the frame, you should be able to fit it somewhere in the fairing.\nThe compressor is about 2\" in diameter and about 5\" long.\n\tThe relay mounted on the front of the steering head frame (it is small\nso there should be plenty of good places for it.\n\tI found a perfect place for the horns that required only tie wraps to\nmount. The horns fit inside the front fairing/frame and stick out on either side\njust in front of the air scoops, but behind the turn signals. The back of the\nhorns point back towards the center of the bike and come real close to where\nthe gas tank connects to the front part of the frame. There is just enough\nroom to the outside to allow full lock to lock clearance, and there are nice\ncut outs in the frame for the back of the horn to go into.\n\tThe short horn is even with the fairing, and the long one sticks out\nabout an inch or so, but it is really not that noticable unless you look\nclosely. They end up pointing down slightly and maybe 30 degrees from straight\nahead (perfect for those cagers trying to change lanes into you).\n\tIf you have any other questions about the mounting, email, and I can try\nto explain better. If your bike is not red, then you may want to paint them\nfirst.\n\tHow do they work you ask? They are very, very, very *LOUD*. They sound\nmore like a european sports car than a truck, but a vast improvement over stock.\nI have used them at least daily since installing them, and the 10 amp fuse has\nnot blown yet (although, the duration of the horn blasts have been short).\n\tI've repeatedly scared the shit out of my friends with them, even though\nthey know that I have the horns, they still jump. They are perfect for keeping\nthe pedestrians on the sidewalk.\nThe bottom line is they work, are loud enough to cause pain and suffering to\nthose stupid lane changing cages (as well as take a few years off their lives)\nand are relatively easy to install on the FJ. YMMV.", "Ivan D. Reid, on the 23 Apr 1993 06:05 PST wibbled:\n: In article <1993Apr23.121316.1564@news.columbia.edu>, Rob Castro writes...\n: >When/How do you decide that it is too windy to ride?\n\n: \tWhen even the seagulls are walking. :-)\n\n: Ivan Reid, Paul Scherrer Institute, CH. \t\t\tivan@cvax.psi.ch\n: GSX600F, RG250WD.\tSI=2.66 \"You Porsche. Me pass!\"\tDoD #484\n\nWhen you can make no headway into the wind?\n\nWhen you hear a dull booming noise after going down hill with the\nwind behind you and you're WFO. \n\nBe very careful during the above, as all the controls will have the \nopposite effect.\n--\n\nNick (the Mach 0.22 Biker) DoD 1069 Concise Oxford\n\nM'Lud.", "Why do you let such brain dead idiots drive in the US?\n\n\nTony", "anyone else experiencing a similar problem?\n\nThis concerns the clutch on a 92 Honda Accord 5 speed. When the clutch\nis first used in the morning, about the first 4 miles of shifting, there\nis a significant amount of clutch chatter until things warm up. Then the\nclutch shifts smoothly. This chatter started when I moved to the San \nFrancisco Bay area from a low-humidity environment. The dealer stated\nthat this is known to happen since Honda changed from an asbestos to\nnon-asbestos clutch material. No remedy!! Seems that moisture on clutch\nsurface causes slipping until the moisture evaporates.", "\nIf you do make it into New York state, the Palisades Interstate Parkway is a\npleasant ride (beautiful scenery, good road surface, minimal traffic). You\nmay also want to take a sidetrip along Seven Lakes Drive just off the parkway\nfor the same reasons plus the road sweeps up and down along the hills with\nsweeping turns under old forest canopy.", "\n\tI swore off taking passengers over ten years ago, but I recall\n Sturgis, 1981 getting some strange looks because my passenger\n was reading a book. She was so engrossed that she didn't even\n notice when we hit a roadkill to make the hit-of-the-day\n with the riders behind us.", "Here in Erie, PA there is a system in the inner city called Rado-Lite (a \ntrade name) which allows police and ambulance vehicles to gain right of \nway by controlling traffic lights through RADIO signals. The receivers \nlook much like what you describe, but they include a UHF whip antenna (less\nthan a foot tall) and a light which flashes on and off to let traffic know that \nan emergency vehicle has taken control and is approaching. Local folklore \nsays this system was invented here; I don't know if this company has any \nother installations. It has been in operation for at least 30 years, going \nonly by my memory.", "I'm not sure if this made it out so i'll try again.\n\nI have an Ecklar's (sp?) Corvette car cover for sale. The cover is canvas\non the outside and felt on the inside. It is weather proof and in great\ncondition. I'm asking $95.00 and I'll pay shipping. (originally $175.00\nin October of 1992).", "\nYou and the Beav should lighten up (esp the Beav). I agree that\nDUI/DWI is serious. We should have reasonable laws, strict\nenforcement, and tough sentences. But, Andrew did not\npost \"looking for sympathy over the consequences.\" He posted\nasking for advice because he had an extremely high quote. His\npost was obviously valid because he later found insurance for LESS.\nHe noted why he was in his predicament but did not defend in\nany way drunk driving (and has renounced drunk driving). There\nare too many repeat offenders to worry about and other BDC.\nWhy try to make this person who is no longer part of the problem\nan outcast? He has paid his debt to society. Step off the high\nhorse. We have all been irresponsible in the past.\n\nWith that said, I'm guilty of the same type of hostility towards\nrapists. I think it comes because I feel the punishment is not\nsevere enough. The same may be true of DWI/DUI. If that is the\ncase, then it is our stinkin' gubment we need to change. If \nwe had a reasonable law about DWI/DUI with a stiff penalty\nthen fewer people would do it. \n\nAt any rate, Andrew as paid his debt as defined by the law.\nIf you think that debt is actually greater than the law mandates, \ntell your 'representatives'.\n\nJack Waters II\nDoD#1919", "\nAh, we are looking for good people just like you. We are a very concerned\ngroup of citizens who are absolutely disgusted at the way that the majority\nof drivers simply disobey traffic rules like going above the speed limit,\npassing on our right, and riding our tails, while all the while we respectfully\nabide by the rules of this great country and maintain the mandated speed\nlimits with our calibrated, certified cruise controls, while keeping the\nrespectful 1.5 car length distance/10 mph speed. How many times have you been\nticked off by some moron who jumps ahead in the (5.5 * 1.5)8.25 car lengths \nthat you have left between you and the vehicle ahead of you while driving\n55 mph? Finally you have an option. We are a totally member supported group\nthat perform functions for our own good, for the good of this great country but MOST of all for those unfortunate ones that are too stupid to realize it,\nbless their souls. For a paltry $10, you can join Citizens for Rationally \nAdvanced Piloting(C.R.A.P), a non-profit, members only, society. But, but,but,\nthere is a slight hitch, the initiation rite. To be a full fledged member of\nthis exclusive club, you must proof that you are able to be in the fast lane of\nthe busiest interstate in your area, keep the correct 1.5 car lenth/10 mph speedand I know this can be difficult with those morons around, NOT let anybody pass\nyou, not in the next lane, not in the slow lane, not in the breakdown lane,\nnot NOWHERE. For a complete list of acceptable interstates and times, send $5.\nAnd by the way, over 90% of our members are highly regarded attorneys in the\nauto field and they are completely, absolutely positively in the business ONLY\nto serve your best interests. As a testament to their virtues, they will give\nmembers 90% off the initial consultation fee. Feel free to drop me a line at\nyour earliest convenience and remember, only SPEED kills!", "\nSplitfires work mainly by providing a more-or-less unshrouded spark to the\ncombustion chamber. If an engine's cylinder head design can benefit from this,\nthen the splitfires will yield a slight performance increase, most noticeably\nin lower rpm range torque. Splitfires didn't do diddly-squat for my 1992 GMC\npickup (4.3l V6) but do give a noticeable performance boost in my 1991 Harley\nSportster 1200 and my best friend's 1986 Sportster 883. Folks I know who've\ntried them in 1340 Evo motors can't tell any performance boost over plain\nplugs (which is interesting since the XLH and big twin EVO combustion chambers\nare pretty much the same shape, just different sizes). Two of my friends who\nhave shovelhead Harleys swear by the splitfires but if I had a shovelhead,\nI'd dual-plug it instead since they respond well enough to dual plugs to make\nthe machine work and extra ignition system worth the expense (plus they look\nreally cool with a spark plug on each side of each head)", "\nAlso known as, \"leaning.\"\n\n[severely confused rambling about the ground pushing...] \n\nContersteering refers to pushing the inside handlebar to effect a\nlean. No-hands countersteering is an oxymoron.\n", ": \n: |> Derek....\n: |> \n: |> There is a tool available to reset the service indicator on BMWs but the lights\n: |> will come back on after 2-3 weeks. The tool is in fact illegal (in Europe \n: |> atleast). It is often the case that the unsuspecting punter trots off to buy a \n: |> used BMW and a few weeks later, all the lights come on! Other than that, I know \n: |> of no other tool.... anyone else? \n: |> \n: Shaz,\n: \n: Hmm.. but the service indicators that I have works this way:\n: There are 5 green,1 yellow, 1 red indicators.\n: initially all green indicators will be on for few minutes when you start\n: your car. The computer will actually \"sense\" how you drive your car and\n: as time goes by the green indicators will start to go off one by one and\n: then the yellow indicator will turn on and then the red indicator will go\n: on. And you should get service when by the time green indicators are off.\n: \n: After service the mechanic(or you) will reset the service indicators and the\n: computer starts counting again.\n: \n: So I expect to have a tool(or a procedure) to reset it so the green lights will \n: come on and the yellow and red lights will go off.\n: \n: I wonder how people can do oil change themself without knowing how to reset the\n: indicator.\n: \n: It's the first european car I have and changing oil at 15,000 miles is a \n: surprise to me. and it's a big plus :-). But I wonder how that could happen\n: since the oil lose its lubrication ability over time, I thought it's the oil and\n: not the vehicle that determines how often we should change oil.\n: \n: Any BMW owner on the net? Response welcomed.\n: \n: PS. my initial question is \"how do you seset the service indicator of a BMW\"\n: \n: Derek \n\nThere is a perfectly legal tool available to reset the Bimmer service lights.\nIt will cost you 45$ from a mailorder, and buying one far outweighs\nthe possible consequences of destroying all the electronics if you try\ndi it yourself. \nYou wonder how people do an oil change without knowing how it reset.\nWhy is reseting so important? The only reason for doing\nit is stop the annoyance of a red light staring at you. \nForget this 'in european cars you only need to change the oil every\n15000' crap. Anyone serious about keeping their engine in good shape, and\nextending its life, will change it every 3000, (inc filter). Don't wait\nfor the servive lights to come on before servicing the car. \nI bought a bmw about 6 months ago, it had 3 green lights on. I have changed\nthe oil every 3000, completly flushed brake fliud, changed all filters(oil,\nair and fuel, changed transmission and drive oils\nand done almost all of the other things req for service 1\nand a service 2. After nearly 6000 miles, I am still on 2 green lights.\nAfter a winter in Burlington (and it is snowing today!!) that is not bad.\n\nGood luck! \n\nBlair\n\n--\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nBlair E. Robertson\t\t A New Zealander in Vermont\nUniversity of Vermont\t\t posting his own ideas.........\nMedical Research Facilty\nSmooth Muscle Ion Channel Group\nColchester \nVermont 05446-2500\nemail blair@northpole.med.uvm.edu\nTelephone: (802) 656-8930", "\n*Everything* in Louisiana is related to liquor: eating, sleeping, walking,\ntalking, church, state, life, death, and everything in between.\n\nPlus the food is good, too.\n\n", " So-Called Cool-Hot boxes have been advetised for several years. I recall\nDamark advertising them in a recent catalog. Problem with the units is they do\na sh***y job of keeping food cold/warm. The peliter devices used just don't\nseem to have enough punch to keep up. If you want something hot, you need to\nheat it up before you put it in the box, and end up hours later with food thats\nonly moderately warm. Same goes for cold items.\n\n\n You'de probably be better off getting a good Coleman(tm) cooler and stocking\nup on \"blue ice\" blocks.\n\n Same as above. Not enough \"punch\" in them to keep/get things cold/hot.\nMike Behnke | Senior Tech/Advisor | Quid est illuidin aqua??\nFermi Nat Accel Lab | Equipment Suuport |\nBatavia, Il. | Computing Div | PISTRIX!! PISTRIX!!\nBEHNKE@FNALF.FNAL.GOV | |\n\nMy opinions are my own, not of the lab. So, if you don't like them, call", "\nNah. Nothing sucks like a VAX :)...\n", " ^^^^^^^^\n\nGee, you really make me confused. What is radiator? Where is it located?\nWhat does it look like? Will it release any radiation (since it sounds \nlike radia-tion genera-tor) when you punch holes?", "\n\n\n\n\nI sold a bike via the net to a young lady who lived in Salt Lake City. I\nlive near Lost Angeles. It turned out we had mutual aquaintances at UCLA\nas well. \n\n", "folks,\n\ni am going to be purchasing a new vehicle in the next few months. i\nam trying to hold out until the fall since i have heard that i can\nbe in a better negotiating position to purchase a '93 right when the\n'94s are coming out. i need something that can comfortably carry\n2 adults, 2 kids in car seats, and 2 60-pound dogs. i can probably\nafford something in the 14k-16k range. i am interested in the SUV's\nbut am not sure there are any that are decent which i can afford.\ni think the ford explorer got good reviews from consumer reports but\nis above my $$$ range. the isuzu rodeo is probably in my price range\nbut i think consumer reports gave it a big thumbs down. can anyone\noffer any suggestions? i am hoping for something a little more hip\nthan the traditional wagon, and the SUVs look like fun (we do a lot of\ncamping too).", "\n\nClose. My mother comes from Gainesville Tex, right across the border.\nThey claim to be the chigger capitol of the world, and I believe them.\nWhen I grew up in Fort Worth it was bad enough, but in Gainesville\nin the summer an attack was guaranteed.", "BOAT For SALE\n1989 23' IMPERIAL FISHERMAN featuring\n Walkaround Cuddy Cabin, 305 V8 with VOLVO DUO PROP OUTDRIVE /\\/\\/\\/\nAM-FM Cassette Stereo, VHF RADIO, 4x6 HUMMINGBIRD Fishfinder, ALL Safty\nequipment, Covers, and MUCH MORE. \n 18000 LB. Capacity\n includes Storage Trailer\n Hardly used: LESS Than 100 Hrs", "\nSell the bike and the car and start taking the bus. That way you can\nkeep drinking which seems to be where your priorities lay.\n\nI expect that enough of us on this list have lost friends because of\ndriving drunks that our collective sympathy will be somewhat muted.", "\nHah. Newbie bait. Everyone knows the first motorcycle\nwasn't built until 1893 - there _were_ no pre-'80's motorcycles!\n\n\nYou've been watching too much Northern Exposure.\n\n\nWhy? Because our wheels are repairable?\n\n\nHumph. Obviously, more bait. Everyone knows you don't discard\nMaytag boxes. Even after they've become uninhabitable, they're\nmake a great poor boy's mechanic's creeper.\n\nCX500? Whazzat?\n\n\nOkay. Let's hear you squeal like a pig.\n\n\nBeware fanatical preaching, lest the residents of Waco, Texas set up\na huge salad bar in your honor...", "\nAn effort was made to remove the sticker. It came to pieces, leaving\nmost of it firmly attached to the window. It was dark, and around\n10:00 pm. The sticker (before being mangled in an ineffective attempt\nto be torn off) warned the car would be towed if not removed. A\n\"reasonable person\" would arguably have driven the car. Had an\naccident occured, I don't think my friend's attorney would have much\ntrouble fixing blame on the apartment mangement.\n\nAs a practical matter, even without a conviction, the cost and\ninconvenience of defending against the suit would be considerable.\n\nAs a moral matter, it was a pretty fucking stupid thing to do for so\npaltry a violation as parking without an authorization sticker (BTW, it\nwasn't \"somebody's\" spot, it was resident-only, but unassigned,\nparking).\n", "From article <1pq6i2$a1f@news.ysu.edu>, by ak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker):\n\n\tOh, sure -- sorry, but the absence of a cupholder is not gonna\ndiscourage anyone from eating/drinking in the car; let's just put one\nin anyway, so at least they don't have the further distraction of trying\nnot to spill it.\n\tFurthermore, you are obviously not a smoker; on a cold day, it\ntakes a certain skill to toss a butt out of a cracked window without having\nit wind-deflect into the back seat. Also, just 'cause some smokers use\nthe window, doesn't mean all of us do.\n\tThis reminds me of *one* pleasant feature in the otherwise\nergonomically-hellish interior of the Alfa Romeo Milano: you could ash\nyour cigarette without even removing your hand from the wheel; the 'tray\nwas *right*there*.\n\n\n\tThese, I will agree, are abominations, right along with the fake\ncontinental spare-tire kit -- it's sad watching those little old ladies \ntry to load their groceries into the trunk with that huge tire-medallion\nin the way.\n\tMost pitiful fake convertible top: on a \"Cadillac\" Cimarron, with\nall the chrome door trim still visible -- not fooling *anyone*.\nOf course, there was that Hyundai Excel I once saw...", ": Consumer Reports once wrote about the S-10 Blazer that it \"shook and rattled\n: like a tired taxi cab\". There is one noise that is expecially irritating -\n: the back window squeaks. I believe its because the whole tailgate assembly\n: and window are not solid. Anyway, has anyone had the same problem, and have\n: you found any fixes?\n:\n\nI can relate to this. I've tried everything on my 86, greasing every point,\nWD40, etc. Grease on the two cheap hinges on the tailgate seems to quiet it\ndown for a time, until the grease works out of the hinges. (Hinge pins appear\nto be made out of 16 penny nails!) \n\nAnother vibration seems to get worse with age, and that is a vibration in the\ntransmission in 4th gear. My S10 has 59K miles on it. I bought it new, treated\nit very easily, no fast off-road stuff. Can't GM build Chevies like they used\nto? Ford Explorers look nice, until you look at the price.", ":\non\nh\n\nI guess your view of the video from your sofa gives you a better view than\nthe cops involved? I guess one can see what one wants to see after all.", "You guys are correct. The Bricklin was produced in Canada.\nThe National Museum of Science and Technology here in Ottawa\nhas one, and sometimes they put it on display. Most of the time,\nit stays in storage because the museum doesn't have much room.\nIt's a big deal for a car to be Canadian and that's why they \nhave it. If anybody's a fan, they also have a nice green '73\nRiviera that looks like it just came out of the showroom.", "\nI'm not sure on the older bikes, but the Yamaha Virago 535 has spec'd\nseat height of 27.6 in. and the Honda Shadow 27.2 in. \n", " ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????\n ? Dear Sirs, ?\n ? ?\n ? The private agricultural firm \"DINA\", is breeding pedigree ?\n ?horses of \"sportmodel\" class, mainly trakenensky, gannoversky and ?\n ?thoroughbred horses. We have 17 heads of dams, getters of trakeninsky ?\n ?and thoroughbread breeds, colts of 1-2 years old, sport live-stock of ?\n ?horses of concour class (for passing the route with obstacles). The ?\n ?firm has a warm stable made of brick, arranged to place 60 horses. ?\n ? We have possibility to expand the field of activity and ?\n ?systematically prepare our horses of concour class for sale for hard ?\n ?currency. The experienced staff of the firm (internetional class ?\n ?master) workes for breeding and training of horses. Additional ?\n ?investments are necessary to purchase of larger dam live-stock, ?\n ?construction of the riding-house for training, extra stables. ?\n ? For two years our firm has been organizing hunting tourism of ?\n ?the territory of the national park not far from Moscow (about 100 km). ?\n ? We are also concerned in the development of trading connections ?\n ?on delivering food products, clothes, foot-wear etc. to Russia. ?\n ? ?\n ? Our address: ?\n ? Russia, Obninsk, ?\n ? pr. Marksa, 34-130. ?\n ? phone:(08439)3-49-42, ?\n ? (08439)3-42-30 ?\n ? fax: (095)255-22-25 ?\n ? Electronic Mail: ?\n ? dina@litana.obninsk.su ?\n ? ?\n ? Vyacheslav Chereshnev. ?\n ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????\n", "\n\n[...stiff deleted...]\n\n\n[...stiff deleted...]\n\nSpeed is a quantifiable measure resulting from a set of methods that\nwill result in the same value measured no matter the reference. A \nbullet with zero velocity sitting on a table on a train moving 60mph\nwill be moving at a speed of\n\n (a) 0mph to someone on the train.\n (b) 60mph to someone stationary next to the train.\n\nThe reference frame makes the speed relative. But what's interesting\nhere is that every person on the train will see a stationary bullet.\nEvery person off, a bullet moving 60mph. \n\nI know of no train where all the people on it, every time it is\nfilled, will see a moral problem in exactly the same way.\n", "NAPA remanufactured large 4 barrel carburetor for 78-80\nbig-block 360/440 Dodge. Part #4-244. New in box w/manifold gasket.\nRetail: $345.00\nNAPA price: $250.00\n\nYour price $100.00 + shipping", "Hi, I was looking for some helpful advice.\nI'm a university student with about $7000 to spend, and I'm looking for a \nused car. Does anyone have any useful advice they could offer to a first-\ntime buyer? I'm not looking for anything sporty, just something functional \nand reliable (less maintenance costs). Anybody have any ideas on what models \nmight suit me?\n\nThanks", "]To those of you who have the BMW heated handgrips:\n]\tAre they comfortable? Do they transmit a lot of\n]\tvibration? How do they compare to the stock grips?\n]\tTo foam grips? \n\nI don't have the grips, but have looked into getting them. it's my \nunderstanding that the grips themselves are the standard european \nstyle grips now coming standard on the 93 bikes (K1100RS, K1100LT, etc).\nit's also my understanding that the heater resides _inside_ the bar \nitself so if anything I would suspect it would reduce vibration by \nproviding more bar end mass.\n\nI don't see why they wouldn't work with the old style foam grips aside\nfrom the fact that it might cause the foam to deteriorate or something.\nhard to belive considering they do fine in the 100+ degree texas summers.\n\n'course, I don't actually have them so you can save your flames.\n", "\n: Now for those who have read this far - \n\n: \tWhy did it rev at idle like that? Is water in the fuel an\n: acceptable reaason or were they having me on?\n\nSound like the pilot circuit was say lean/clogged. I don't think\nwater would cause a problem like this, but?\n\n: \tApparently the oil pump is doing its job, and there was plenty\n: of oil. Why did it seize?\n\nSee above. Were you by chance coasting when it stuck? On a two stroke\nyou only have (substantial) lubrication when you are giving the bike gas.\nIf it was lean on the pilot, that's why it stuck.\n\n: Oh, BTW - THe motor had been rebuilt just before I left Adelaide, so had\n: done about 1600 miles when it blew. It was rebuilt because it had been\n: seized at some time before we got it, and it looked like that seizure\n: had happened at low mileage, because there were still hone marks in the\n: bore.\n\n: The rebuild we did consisted of a total tear down, new piston, rings,\n: small end bearing, and new gearbox bearings. Big end and rod judged\n: OK.\n\n\n: Any ideas folks?\n\nYou mentioned an aftermarket carb? (I deleted the text) Looks like \n(to me) that's where your problem is.\n\n: Zebee Johnstone DoD #605 | You don't own an Italian motorcycle \n", "\nWe get about 20 Taurus/Sables for fleet cars at our site every year, then the\ncompany sells them a year later to employees. The folks I know who drive/buy\nthem have no complaints. The cars seem to drive real nice too. \n", "\nWhat's your favorite body part? :-)\n", "The Bricklin was a car manufactured by a company started by Malcolm\nBricklin, who, I believe, was Canadian. He was the first one to import\nSubarus, and later was responsible for importing Yugos, I believe. \nAnyway, he had this idea that what would really sell would be a sports\ncar, but one incorporating a bunch of innovative safety features. The\nBricklin was built to be that queerest of beasts, the safety sports car.\n If any of you remember the early 70s movement among car makers to\ndesign \"experimental\" safety cars, you will recognize the general\nappearance of the Bricklin - big 'ol bumpers, etc. Anyone recall other\nsafety features? The engine was an american v-8, Ford I think is right.\n\nPersonally, I kinda like the way they look, and if I remember from the\nold magazine articles, the performance was only half-bad. The choice of\ncolors, though, tended towards the 1970s lime green - yech - but highly\nvisible, I suppose. \n\nThe Delorean, on the other hand, was a dog - nice looking (IMO) but no\nmotor at all. \nDan\ndh3q@andrew.cmu.edu\nCarnegie Mellon University\nApplied History\n", "\n Nice ridin' Tex. I use the California DMV recommended technique:\nslow as you aproach said dog and wick it up as you pass. I've often\ncontemplated putting the boot in said dog's muzzle as I open the \nthrottle, but have never tried that. I figgure the impact would \nunballance me and I'd dump the bike. A bicycling technique I've\nemployed was to use my frame mounted tire pump to fend off dog\nattacks. On one occasion I was attacked by a pack of four dogs at\nonce while peddaling up a steep hill. I lost my right sock, but no\nblood. I complained to the local Animal Control department (after\ncomplaining to the owner of the dogs to no affect) about the dogs;\nno more dogs, no more attacks. The telephone worked much better\nthan the tire pump.", "\n\n\n\nFord aimed for 75% US content when they designed the new Probe. In actual\npractice it came out to 77% US content. If my '89 is any example the 23%\nthat is imported may be the engine and brakes, at least the '89 had\nMissybitchy brakes.\n", "While on my bike I wave to anyone who looks. Sort of like the \"small town\"\nor \"wide open spaces\" type thing that someone from Louisiana mentioned. (Like\nwhen I'm in Arkansas or Helena MT.) Kids are especially fun - both genders\n(Watch it Cliff!! :-) ) \n\nIn the cage I usually wave to bikers. They usually don't wave back. My wife\nthinks it's strange but I don't care.", "I'm posting this for a friend, but you can e-mail questions to me at\ngyeh@cc.bellcore.com However, the best way to get your questions answered\nis to call the phone number listed.\n\nFOR SALE:\n\n1991 Volkswagon Corrado\n\n\t2+2 coupe\n\tLow mileage: approx. 28,000 miles\n\t5-speed manual\n\t7 speaker factory Blaupunkt stereo system\n\tNew all-weather Yokohamas 205/50VR15\n\tSun roof\n\tAC\n\tRed\n\tSpeed activated spoiler\n\tExtra set of tires - Pirelli P600 195VR15\n\n\t** Equipped with factory Winter package - heated seats, \n mirrors and nozzles.\n\n\t** Alpine security system with 2 remotes.\n\n\tAll records - documentation, service\n\tPampered car, mint condition\n\n\tMust sacrifice at $11,000 or best offer.", "Shaz,\n\nHmm.. but the service indicators that I have works this way:\n There are 5 green,1 yellow, 1 red indicators.\n initially all green indicators will be on for few minutes when you start\n your car. The computer will actually \"sense\" how you drive your car and\n as time goes by the green indicators will start to go off one by one and\n then the yellow indicator will turn on and then the red indicator will go\n on. And you should get service when by the time green indicators are off.\n \n After service the mechanic(or you) will reset the service indicators and the\n computer starts counting again.\n\nSo I expect to have a tool(or a procedure) to reset it so the green lights will \ncome on and the yellow and red lights will go off.\n\nI wonder how people can do oil change themself without knowing how to reset the\nindicator.\n\nIt's the first european car I have and changing oil at 15,000 miles is a \nsurprise to me. and it's a big plus :-). But I wonder how that could happen\nsince the oil lose its lubrication ability over time, I thought it's the oil and\nnot the vehicle that determines how often we should change oil.\n\nAny BMW owner on the net? Response welcomed.\n\nPS. my initial question is \"how do you seset the service indicator of a BMW\"", "\n\nRight. In the thirties both Buick and Packard had two spares mounted in\nwells in the front fenders. Of course that was back when the front\nfenders were long enough to provide room. There were a couple of other\nmarques that did this as well, but memory fades.", "I am a little confused on all of the models of the 88-89 bonnevilles.\nI have heard of the LE SE LSE SSE SSEI. Could someone tell me the\ndifferences are far as features or performance. I am also curious to\nknow what the book value is for prefereably the 89 model. And how much\nless than book value can you usually get them for. In other words how\nmuch are they in demand this time of year. I have heard that the mid-spring\nearly summer is the best time to buy.", "\n\nWorks really well on my 'bike too.\n\n\nTony\n", "I'm considering switching to Geico insurance, but have heard that\nthey do not assign a specific agent for each policy or claim. I was\nworried that this might be a real pain when you make a claim. I have\nalso heard that they try to get rid of you if you have an accident.\n\nI'm interestend in determining whether or not these things are true.\nHas anyone out there with Geico made a claim? I'd be interested in\nhearing whether or not you were satisfied with the service and whether\nyou then had trouble renewing your policy.", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\nBaloney. Either the programmer or the people who decided to let their\nactions be governed by the program are clearly at fault. If you neglect\nto do maintenance on your car, and the steering goes out, you _are_\nresponsible for the death of all those kids on the sidewalk your car\nsubsequently drives over \"on its own\".", "[stuff about Dodge Shadow deleted]\n\n\nWhat do you mean by \"all models\", all models of cars, all Chrysler models,\nall models that the fleet manager had bought? Because there is no way in\nhell that the Shadow is the most reliable car of all models sold, not\neven Chrysler's dept. of lies, damned lies and statistics would claim that.", "I am curious about knowing which commericial cars today\nhave v engines.\n\nV4 - I don't know of any.\nV6 - Legend, MR3? MR6?\nV8 - Don't know of any.\nV12 - Jaguar XJS\n\n\n Please add to the list.\n", "Which Western states have laws that charge sales tax on the difference between\na new car's price and the trade-in's value? I know California charges you on \nthe full value of the new vehicle regardless of trade-in.\n\nIf you are a California resident, is it legal to buy a car in a state other than\nCalifornia without also paying California sales tax? How does California \nenforce any law that requires you to also pay California sales tax (on top of \nthe out-of-state tax)?\n", "JL-NS>Subject: Re: Motorcycle Courier (Summer Job)\n\nI'd like to thank everyone who replied. I will probably start looking in\nearnest after May, when I return from my trip down the Pacific Coast\n(the geographical feature, not the bike).\n\nRyan Cousinetc.|1982 Yamaha Vision XZ550 -Black Pig of Inverness|Live to Ride\nKotRB |1958 AJS 500 C/S -King Rat |to Work to\nDoD# 0863 |I'd be a squid if I could afford the bike... |Flame to\nryan.cousineau@compdyn.questor.org | Vancouver, BC, Canada |Live . . .\n\n\n * SLMR 2.1a * Have bike, will travel. Quickly. Very quickly.\n ", "We were at a dealership today looking at buying a car and\nthe salesman was showing us something he was calling a\n\"buy back\". Is that a car that was fleeted and then\ngiven back for the new model the next year? If that\nis so, how many miles is a good number to have on it\nand are these types of cars generally a good buy?", "There was an article in Business week not more the 4 weeks ago\non this very subject. IN fact the Volvo 850 was one of the cars\nthey laid out an example for. \n", "I just love these posts from the ex-Soviet Union. Among the cars, dinette\nsets, video cameras, etc. every now and then an ad pops up for bee venom,\nRED OXIDE OF MERCURY, cobalt (100 tons minimum order), etc. Don't they\nhave garage sales in Russia? :-)\n", "\n1 hr/drink for the first 4 drinks.\n1.5 hours/drink for the next 6 drinks.\n2 hours/drink for the rest.", "\nactually, disabled persons have been known to drive in SCCA\nraces. i'd be careful about making sweeping generalizations here.\n\ni'd prefer a manual transmission, but the early SHO had an\nawful transmission that felt like it came out of a truck or something.\nit was almost enough to make me want an automatic.", "\n\tActually, this started as a great idea. Before steering-column\nlocks became popular, Saab installed a *gearshift* lock -- put the car\nin reverse, remove the key, and the car *stays* in reverse!\n\tAlso, suppose you get into your car, and a thug comes up and\ndemands your keys at gunpoint. You hand them over, he gets in, and\nHAS NO IDEA WHERE TO PUT THE KEY! At this, he will run away (or perhaps\nshoot you anyway %-}). I heard this actually happened somewhere...\n\tBtw, I hear that the Saab 900's new successor will have the\nignition on the console, between the seats, where it belongs.", "\n\tMost bikes I've seen that use a dipstick rather than a\n\tsight glass are designed to check it without screwing it\n\tin. In the manual for my CBR900RR, they specifically\n\tstate it should be done this way.\n\n\t\t\t\tMichael\n", "\nObviously the police officer reads the speedometer.\nI cannot believe the nit-picking in this group.\nThere's 2 beams, there is not, is too, etc....", "I agree about the durability of the old TH400 trannies from GM. While I \nnever intentionally slamed my '68 Firebird 400 ci Conv. into gear, I would leave \nthe trannie in Low (read 1st), grab hold, hit the pedal, and once the tires \ngrabbed, take off. When I reached about 57-60mph the turbo 400 Auto would \nshift to S (read 'super' or 2nd) and leave about 10 to 15 foot of double \nstripped rubber on the ground. Most everyone I knew at the time was quite \nimpressed with 'peeling' out at 60 MPH. The trannie held up just fine.\nMotor mounts would last about a year until I tied the motor down with large\nchains. Oh yea,FYI: Pontiac 400 ci bored 0.04 over \n Large Valve heads\n Holley 650 Spread bore\n Crain 'BLAZER' cam (don't remember the specs)\n PosiTrac, Hooker headers, Dual exhaust\n Get this (Conv., leather seats, power windows\n power top, AC, Cruise etc.) \n\n Oh yea, I also pulled the 'Cocktail shakers' (weights) from the front\n and removed the lead pellet from the accelerator pedal. (Damn US regulations) \n OH, HOW I MISS THAT CAR!!! \n -- 0-60 under 6.7 sec and about 6 to 14 mpg (well I don't miss the mpg)\n -- front wheels 4\" off the ground with three quick jabs at the pedal.\n -- bent pushrods, stripped rocker studs, every 6-12 months \n ( I really wonder what kind of rev's I was turning - no tach)\nRe: Improvements in Automatic Transmissions\n Anyone seen one of these lately? I'd buy it back in a sec!!!", "Howdy,\n\nI'm a little new to this newsgroup, but I would like to tap some of the\nknowledge and expertise available here.\n\nThe Subject: After-market cruise controls\n\nThe Background:\nI recently broke my ankle in a road-bicycling accident (4 places, five \nscrews, yuk! :-( ). In two weeks I will be returning to Texas (my\nhome) from my school (BYU) in Provo, Utah. As you can imagine, trying to\ndrive nearly 1300 miles with a broken right ankle isn't just the epitome of\na good time. My car does not have a cruise control, so I would have to do\nall the pedalling (ha ha) with my messed-up ankle.\n\nMy question:\nWhat is the general opinion of after-market cruise control units? I\nrealize that a cheap CC (cruise control) from, say, Pep Boys, isn't going to\nbe as good as a factory or professionally installed unit (if there is such a\nthing). And I uderstand that I probably can't expect much in the way of\naccuracy, looks and that sort of thing; But anything's gotta be better than\ntrying to drive with a hosed ankle.\n\nI have a 1984 Jeep Cherokee, 4 speed, standard, 4*4, 2.5L engine with\nkettering(sp?) ignition (y'know, distributor cap, rotor, that set-up--not\nelectronic. Maybe you could've guessed it being an '84, but I'm just trying\nto give information as completly as I can).\n\nI found a CC unit for 80 bucks. It seems to use the vehicles vacuum system \ninstead of an electric servor/motor. Is this good or bad? If I did buy\nthis CC, which vacuum hose should I tap?\n\nIt has two speed sensors: One magnetic, and one that gets a signal from the \nnegative side of the distributor, kinda like a tach pick-up, or so I\nunderstand. I can use either one. Which is best? The manual says (I read\nit in the store today) that the magnetic/axle set-up is more accurate, but\nharder to install. Is there really a big difference?\n\nIt has a sensor for the brake pedal, just like other CCs, but does NOT have a\nsensor for the clutch pedal. So if I wasn't paying real close attention I\nmight push the clutch in while the cruise is trying to get the speed up. Which\nwould wind the engine up kinda high until I got my wits about me and turned \nthe thing off. I'm pretty coordinated, so this doesn't bother me, if it\nwere for my girlfriends car, *then* it would bother me, but I'm ok with it.\n\nThe installation also calls for an attachment to a steady-on brake signal\nand a switched-on brake signal. I think I can get a switched brake signal\nfrom the correct side of the brake light blade fuse. Am I right? But I'm\nnot sure where to get the steady-on brake signal, or, for that matter, what\nexactly it is? Any ideas as to what the manufaturer wants and where to get\nit?\n\nI think I can figure the other things out. Like how to hook-up the negative\nside tach-type sensing gizmo and the cabin control unit, and the ground and\nall that miscellaneous business. But I need a little help with:\n\n\t1. Is it worth the money and safety risk (if any) for such a\n\t device?\n\t2. Is there any particularly good after-market CC?\n\t3. Are \"professionally\" installed CCs signifacantly better and\n\t worth the cabbage?\n\t4. If the unit I saw (sorry, no manufacturer or model number, just\n\t that it is at Pep Boy and its $80) is sufficient for my simple \n\t needs, how do I get the thing installed properly (specifically,\n\t the questions above)?\n\nMy father and I built a \"Veep\" (Volkswagen powered Jeep CJ-2A) when I was in\nhigh school, so I consider myself fairly good with tools, electronics, and\ncars. So the installation doesn't scare me. I just want to be certain that\nI get the thing installed correctly as my Cherokee is just a wee bit more\ncomplicated than my Veep. :-)\n\nI appreciate your time in reading my post, and I would appreciate any\nexpertise or opinion anybody has on the subject. If you would like to share\nsome of your wisdom, please email as I don't get over this group very often\n(but I check my mail all the time).\n\nAgain, thanks for any help anyone may have.", "\n\nYes some radar detectors are less detectable by radar detector\ndetectors. ;-)", ": You know, it sounds suspiciously like no fault doesn't even do what it\n: was advertised as doing---getting the lawyers out of the loop.\n\n: Sigh. Another naive illusion down the toilet....\n\nSince most legislators are lawyers it is very difficult to get any\nlaw passed that would cut down on lawyers' business. That is why\n\"No-fault\" insurance laws always backfire. ", "I've heard *unconfirmed* rumours that there is a new Integra being released\nfor '94.\n\nDoes anybody have any info on this?\n\nThe local sales people know as much as I can throw them.\n\n--Parms.", "\ni think you got it the other way round: the Ferrari flat 12 is a 180\ndegree v12 and not a \"true\" boxer, while the subaru and porsche are\ntrue boxers. don't know about the vw bug though, but i suspect that\nit is also a true boxer.", "I ONLY Just prevented myself from diving in on this one.....\n", "nope. 4 cylinder.\n\ni wasn't aware that there was another Infiniti with a V-8 besides the Q45.\n\nseveral. the 740i, 730i, 540i, 530i. (4.0 liter and 3.0 liter V-8)\n\none or two? there's at least one V-8 for every platform except\nthe compact (190E). S-class (400SEL, 500SEL), W124 (400E, 500E),\nand roadster (500SL).\n\nacura doesn't have any V-8 cars at the moment.", "\n\nThis has now been thrown out by the courts. (The \"Progressive\" case.)\n\n\nThis is outright illegal. It DOES violate the first amendment. If you\nwould, give a case in which your \"speed trap\" example has been upheld by\nthe courts.", "\n\nSo, you'd sell your bike, and let her\nride around while you have to stay home with\nthe kids?\n\nGeez, that's a tough choice.\n", "\nPretty much like the people who buy the Mazda MX-5 (Miata) today. Small \nfun and you can fool yourself (and a lot of other people) that you have the \nperformance of many far superior (and much more expensive) performnace cars.\n\n", "\n An excellent movie. Not essentially about motorcycles, but\na very poignant look at life in rural Ireland.\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------", "I was wondering if anyone out there could enlighten me on this car I saw\nthe other day. It was a 2-door sports car, looked to be from the late 60s/\nearly 70s. It was called a Bricklin. The doors were really small. In addition,\nthe front bumper was separate from the rest of the body. This is \nall I know. If anyone can tellme a model name, engine specs, years\nof production, where this car is made, history, or whatever info you\nhave on this funky looking car, please e-mail.", "Stolen from Pasadena between 4:30 and 6:30 pm on 4/15.\n\nBlue and white Honda CBR900RR california plate KG CBR. Serial number\nJH2SC281XPM100187, engine number 2101240.\n\nNo turn signals or mirrors, lights taped over for track riders session\nat Willow Springs tomorrow. Guess I'll miss it. :-(((\n\nHelp me find my baby!!!", "\n\nHow much room can 6 videotapes take up in the moving van?\nWhy not just take them with you?\n-- ", "\n Watch out. Often when some scumbag steals the cover, that means\n that they were or are looking to steal the bike. In my case, I\n had a faded cover stolen off a bmw R100RS that was stashed in an\n apartment carport and not visible from the street. They evidently\n decided the beemer wasn't worth stealing, but did try the next night to\n steal a Honda Hurricane 600 parked in the next apartment building.\n A neighbor heard them wheeling it out and called the cops.\n\n\nI know this is just setting myself up, but this is actually one of the\nthings that is really good about BMW bikes. From all accounts I've\nheard practically no one steals BMWs. Probably it is similar for Moto\nGuzzis and other relative \"exotics\" since there isn't a large demand\nfor parts and the bike would be much easier to track down. It seems\nthat the most stolen bikes are Harleys and 600cc Jap sport bikes. \n", "\nKnowing Keith, I expect he'll bring the leather accessories.\n\nBetter oil it well. Leather cracks when it dries.", "[stuff about RHD deSoto's deleted]\n\nAustralians still do drive on the \"wrong\" side of the road. I believe\nSweden changed in 1968. The way I heard it was that they swapped\nall the traffic signs around one Sunday....", "\nIf we do, I think you'd loose. Sure, you're hand's already on the\nthrottle. And your thumb is already near the horn button. Pushing the\nhorn button is one simple move. Revving the throttle requires either\nengaging the clutch, or accelerating. The first is a more complex\nmanuver than a simple horn button push, and the second ain't too bright\nwhen there is a potential hazard ahead. Besides, the unique sound of a\nhorn is more effective in attracting the attention of BDI cagers than\nis the sound of an engine, which is what they expect to hear (you are\non the road!).\n\nAs is usually the case, a single anecdote hardly constitutes sound\nsafety procedure.\n\nThe answer is 161.33 feet.\n", "\nThere's plenty of legroom on the Kawasaki KLR650. A bit\nshort in the braking department for spirited street riding,\nbut enough for dirt and for less-agressive street stuff.\n--", "\n\tHey what does the A/Rose extension do anyway ?\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tMichael", "You probably should told you dad to buy that car, than your dream might\ncome true.\n\n", "\n\n\nHow can car be any good that has\n\n S N A C\n U D N E\n\nwritten on the back with crooked letters as if a 2-year-old had\nwritten it? Hehhehehehahaha!\n\n(About as silly as Crysler's attemps to make the label on the back\nof some of their other cars appear like they are Mercedes.)\n\nSorry, I couldn't resist...", "\n\nSounds more like an Opel GT. Neat cars, fun to drive. Sold through\nBuick from 196? through 1973 (if I remember correctly). I believe it\nwas in '72 that there were some engine mods made such that parts\nwere not interchangeable with the older models. Parts are thus much\nharder to come by for the later models. Parts in general are not\ntoo difficult to find. At one time JC Whitney carried some stuff\nincluding a brand new (not remfg) long block. Either a GT or a\nKharman Ghia (hmm that spelling looks hosed) will be my next project.", "\nToo easy. When you are dragging your pegs while driving in a \nstraight line.\n\nActually I've driven in 50 mph side winds with just a little\ndifficulty.", "\nthink again!! thanks to 60 minutes (tick tick tick), used 200\nquattros are bargains.. '89s go for about $15K, '90s go for perhaps 1\nor 2K more, the 20 valve 91's are quite a bit more because of an\nenormous hp and torque gain.. i think they go for about $23 to $25K if\nyou can find one. i have seen quite a lot of '89-'90 200 quattros (not\nthat many wagons though) at the dealer lot.. they use very high\nquality paint and the entire car is zinc galvanized, so it will never\nrust.\n\nin short, typically a 4 yr old 200 looks no more older than a 1 year\nold and the 5 bangers are bullet proof engines. 200K out of one is\nnot rare, even for a turbo, which is watercooled for the 200s. then\nthere are aftermarket chips that you can buy to bump up turbo boost...\n\nif you are into luxo-gizmos.. the cars are loaded with just about\neverything too..\n\nthe price of parts is a different story though...\n", "My old jacket is about to bite the dust so I'm in the market for a new riding\njacket. I'm looking for recommendations for a suitable replacement. I would\nlike to buy a full Aerostich suit but I can't afford $700 for it right now.\n\nI'm considering two basic options:\n\n1) Buy the Aerostich jacket only. Dunno how much it costs\n due to recent price increases, but I'd imagine over $400.\n That may be pushing my limit. Advantages include the fact\n that I can later add the pants, and that it nearly eliminates\n the need for the jacket portion of a rainsuit.\n\n2) Buy some kind of leather jacket. I like a few of the new \n Hein-Gericke FirstGear line, however they may be a bit pricey\n unless I can work some sort of deal. Advantages of leather\n are potentially slightly better protection, enhanced pose\n value (we all know how important that is :-), possibly cheaper\n than upper Aerostich.\n\nRequirements for a jacket are that it must fit over a few other \nlayers (mainly a sizing thing), if leather i'd prefer a zip-out \nlining, it MUST have some body armor similar to aerostich (elbows, \nshoulders, forearms, possibly back/kidney protection, etc.), a \nreasonable amount of pocket space would be nice, ventilation would \nbe a plus, however it must be wearable in cold weather (below\nfreezing) with layers or perhaps electrics.\n\nPlease fire away with suggestions, comments, etc...\n\nSteve\n--", "Is it ok to take the car out of gear without using the clutch\n(while the car is turned off)?\n\nThanks in advance.\n\nPlease reply by mail.", "88 toyota Camry - Top Of The Line Vehicle\nblue book $10,500\nasking 9,900.\n\n73 k miles\nauto transmission\n \nHas Everything!\n\nowned by a meticulous automoble mechanic\n\ncall (408) 425-8203 ask for Bob.", "I believe the interstates were origionally funded as part of a national \ndefense plan etc. The requirements were to move heavy army trucks at \n70mph.\n\nStill its amazing in Germany you can have cars traveling 155 mph and 65 mph \non the same 3 to 4 lane road. Around Washington DC they can't keep traffic \nflowing at 55.", "\nTwo shots at it: (1) Check the tires again - if you can see the wear bars,\nyou're down to problem area (and some tires pass a penny test between the\nbars - that's no guide at all). Your problem in the wet is call hydroplaning.\nYou may not have enough tread left to channel water out from under the\ntire - so it goes fishy on you as it lifts off the road.\n\n(2) Tires age. In particular, soft tire compounds get harder as you put\nthem thru more heat cycles. Harder compounds don't grip as well as\nsoft ones. Effect is very noticable on tires that get very hot very\noften, such as in competition, but it hits all tires.", "\n\n\nFunny, we had plenty of them in Bulgaria, regardless of the embargo...\n:-) So much for export controls...\n\nRegards,\nVesselin", "\nI was raised in the South, and I can attest that this is true. Why, on\none particularly hot day, as I was walking along the road, some good\nole boys in a truck tossed me a cold beer! Of course, they were going\n50 mph at the time...\n\n\nBikers wave to bikers the world over. Whether or not Harley riders\nwave to other bikers is one of our favorite flame wars...\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\tThen what is a \"Flat-\" engine???\n\n", "\n\nAs you point out, the experiments would be difficult. But we know\nenough about the physics of the situation to do some calculations.\nThere are in fact three effects contributing to leaning the bike over\nto begin a turn.\n\n\t1. Gyro effect causing a torque which twists the bike over.\n\n\t2. Contact patch having shifted to one side, causing bike to fall over.\n\n\t3. Contact patch being accelerated to the side, causing a\n\ttorque which twists the bike over.\n\nTake an average bike/rider, average bike wheel, and at speeds of 5,\n15, and 50 mph (say) calculate how much twist of the bars would be\nneeded to produce (say) 20 degrees of lean in (say) 2 seconds by each\neffect alone. My guess is that at slow speeds 2 is dominant, and at\nhigh speeds 3 is dominant, and at all speeds 1 contributes not far off\nbugger all, relatively speaking.\n\nBy the way, a similar problem is this: how does a runner who wants to\nrun round a corner get leaned into the corner fast? Is there a running\ngroup where we could start \"counter-footing\" arguments and have them\nall falling over as they tried to work out how they go round corners?", "I just mailed this:\n\nI noticed a 2-3in long cut in the tread of the rear tire on my VFR.\nThe cut is only about as deep as the tread block, and looks like it\nonly scratched the rubber at the base, but the weird thing is, it's\nway over on the edge where I haven't scuffed the tire in yet.\nMy questions are:\n1. How dangerous is this, should I replace the tire right away?\nand\n2. If I should, since the cut is on the unscuffed portion and the\ntire only has about 330 mi on it, what do you think my chances of\ngetting it replaced under warranty are?\n\nTo the nedod mailing list, and Jack Tavares suggested I check out\nhow old the tire is as one tactic for getting it replaced. Does\nanyone have the file on how to read the date codes handy?\n\nThanks,\nDean\n", "\n\nFor an all out sports car, I'd go for the RX-7 without the sports\nsuspension (which is too stiff.) For a little more practicality and more\ncomfort, the Nissan 300ZX Turbo is a good buy. And for a good dose of\nluxury, the Lexus SC300 is perfect (with a manual transmission of course.) \nHowever, the Toyota Supra is coming out soon and if you like it's looks,\nthe performance is supposed to be great, almost race car like. I don't\nparticulary like the Mitsubishi 3000GT's or the Dodge Stealths as they are\ntoo heavy and aren't very nimble handlers for a sports car.\n-- \nA motion picture major at the Brooks Institute of Photography, CA\nSanta Barbara and a foreign student from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.", "\n\n\n\n\nThe same place single men do, wallet in back pocket, comb in other\nback pocket, keys in front pocket, knive in other from pocket, pen\nin shirt pocket, or front pants pocket. Or do married men start\ncarrying around a bunch of stuff to keep there women happy?", "\ndid you account for depreciation? i seriously doubt that a taurus\nwould rack up an extra $4000 in repair costs over 5 years.", "Hey folks--\n\nI've got a pair of Dunlop sportmax radials of my ZX-10, and they've been\nvery sticky (ie no slides yet), but all this talk about the Metzelers has\nme wondering if my next set should be a Lazer comp K and a radial Metzeler\nrear...for hard sport-touring, how do the choices stack up?", "\nWell, as many a bored bike tourer can tell you, the way to steer\nsans hans is to push your body off to the side you want to lean.\nSay you want to turn left. You push your body off to the left.\nTo do this, you have to push against something, and the only\nthing to push against is the ground (through the bike). Well,\nthe apple guy (Wozniak? or was that Churchill?) says that the \nground will push you right back. So, you pushed yourself off to \nthe left by pushing on the ground to the right, and the ground \npushed back toward the left. Well, that push is on both wheels. \nThe rear wheel doesn't care (unless you have serious bearing \nproblems) (except of course on the Spagthorpe Dragonfly, which\nhad the revolutionary countersteering-contra-shaft-drive rear end), \nbut the front wheel has trail. If the ground pushes the front wheel \ntoward the left at the contact patch, the trail will cause the \nwheel to turn to the right. Hey, there we are. No-hands counter-\nsteering.", "Dumbest options? Well here in the UK, BMW offer a 'no-smokers' option...\nIt just means they take the fag lighter out.... big deal....\n\nBTW - I just bought a Honda CRX F1..... its neat... did consider an MR2 targa,\nMX5 (you guys call it Miata?).... but that CRX just one my heart with that \nbody kit and 8-spokes.... ", "Are there any Honda groups out there? Especially ones that deal with\nPreludes?", "I am presently doing a masters thesis to do with traffic intersections in \nNew Zealand but a lot of the books I am researching from, are from America or\nAustralia and so I was wondering if anyone could please tell me what the road\nrules are in either country with regard to intersections.\n\nThanks\nJulian Visch\njsv@math.canterbury.ac.nz", "Remove LEGEND from the V-8 list, it's a 6.", "Hi.. Me and My roomate are going to redecorate the \"living room\" and \nwe thought it would be a cool idea to have a license plate from every \nstate in the US and then from whereever else we could find, like canada,\nMexixo, even some European ones.\n\n If anyone has any ideas or knows someone that could help us out\nplease let me know.... The more recent, the better, but anything\nwould be nice.\n\n Either that or if you have an old plate hanging around... (hint hint!)\n\nKev\nwanderer@camelot.bradley.edu", "From: speedy@engr.latech.edu (Speedy Mercer)\n\nI was attacked by a rabid hubcap once. I was going to work on a Yamaha\n750 Twin (A.K.A. \"the vibrating tank\") when I heard a wierd noise off to my\nleft. I caught a glimpse of something silver headed for my left foot and\njerked it up about a nanosecond before my bike was hit HARD in the left...\n\n(Rest deleted)\n\nAnyone else had this sort of experience?\n\n ----===== DoD #8177 = Technician(Dr. Speed) .NOT. Student =====----\n\n Stolen Taglines...\n * God is real, unless declared integer. *\n * I came, I saw, I deleted all your files. *\n * Black holes are where God is dividing by zero. *\n * The world will end in 5 minutes. Please log out. *\n * Earth is 98% full.... please delete anyone you can. *\n\n Actually, hubcap attacks are fairly common, most cagers being too\n incompetant to reinstall them properly after changing tires, or\n to check them after collisions. Luckily, few are as heavy as the\n one that got you.\n\nAl Moore DoD 734\n\nDon't forget the immortal", "Hi,\n\nMy friend's 1983 Toyota Tercel accelerates by itself without using\nthe gas peddel. The repairman said it has a internal leak of air in\nthe carburetor and needs a new carburetor (costs $650). She likes\nto know if it is possible to fix the problem without replacing\nthe whole carburetor.", "\nwhich flat 4 engines have I4 style cranks?\n\n\ni am 99.99% sure that subaru (and porsche) use the boxer configuration\nand not the inline 4 crank that you analyzed and compared. would you\ncare to re-evaluate the other case of a flat four? i think that this\nconfiguration is perfectly balanced as far as primary, secondary\nforces and couples are concerned. i have an article in front of me\nthat says so.\n\n\nthe flat four is also shorter than an inline 4, so even if it is mounted\nlongitudinally it will not take up lots of length.. and a longitudinal\nplacement is easier for a 4 wheel drive drivetrain.\n\ni think that subaru's ads hold water. in practice, their flat fours\nare noticeably smoother than inline 4s and completely buzz free,\nthough some may not like its peculiar note. but as alfa has shown, a\nboxer four can produce a spine tingling scream that only the likes of\nrecent hondas can approach.\n", ": \n: >: > HELP!!!\n: >: > my wife has informed me that she wants a convertible for her next car.\n\n\n: >: FYI, just last week the PBS show Motor Week gave the results of what they \n: >: thought were the best cars for '93. In the convertible category, the \n: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n\n (snip, snip)\n\n: Does Porsche have a patent on the \"targa\" name?\n: I mean, convertible to me means \"top down\", which the del Sol certainly\n: does NOT do. It has the center that lifts out. This is what i would\n: term a targa(unless Porsches was gonna sue me for doing that). I know\n: the rear window rolls down, but i still can hardly consider this car\n: to be a convertible.\n: \n: DREW\n\nHere we go...\n\nNo, of course Porsche doesn't have a patent on the \"targa\" name. If that were\nthe case, what would Fiat do? I suppose that technically my del Sol is not a\n\"convertible\" in the literal sense, but it certainly classifies as an open-\ntopped car. In addition, the rear section behind the removable top is what\nmakes my car _infinately_ safer than a convertible.\n\n(flame-retardant on ...)", "\nI read about a SuperTrapp system called E.A.R that was supposed to be\nquiet enough to pass some European standards. Apparently it's not\non the market yet...\n\nYoshimura makes a few systems that are supposed to be \"kind of\" quiet.\nThey are also really light. I'm planning on getting one of these \nsystems soon, and will post the results.\n\n- Mark\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\nMark S. Burnham (markb@wc.novell.com) AMA#668966 DoD#0747 \nAlfa Romeo GTV-6 '90 Ninja 750", "\n\nThe new Cruisers DO NOT have independent suspension in the front. They\nstill\nrun a straight axle, but with coils. The 4Runner is the one with\nindependent\nfront. The Cruisers have incredible wheel travel with this system. \n\nThe 91-up Cruiser does have full time 4WD, but the center diff locks in\nlow range. My brother has a 91 and is an incredibly sturdy vehicle which\nhas done all the 4+ trails in Moab without a tow. The 93 and later is even\nbetter with the bigger engine and locking diffs.\n", "\nGlad to hear that the bozo managed to stop. I've only been riding for\nabout two years, but here are my rules for traffic light survival:\n\n - I try to *never* stop just over a hill behind a car. If I have\n to stop in such a location, I pull almost completely next to the\n car in front of me. If I'm the only one (ie no car in front), I\n turn the bike somewhat sideways across the lane, to increase my\n visibility to any oncoming vehicle. Make sure to keep your\n taillight visible to traffic, though. (NOTE: My bike is bright\n white; turning sideways on a black bike might not be as beneficial.)\n\n - On a flat road, I stop with a bit of room ahead of me (usually\n about two or three bike lengths). This will (hopefully) give\n me room to pull forward and to the side as a car approaches.\n\n - If you are the last in a line of vehicles, watch your mirrors\n *constantly!* If you see a vehicle approaching, and can't see\n any evidence to indicate that he/she is slowing down, get out\n of the way *now!*\n\n - Flicker your brake light. If I'm the last vehicle in line, I\n will pull and release the brake as a car approaches from\n behind (noticed the car by watching my mirrors, of course :-).\n I vary the speed of the flicker, hoping to make the cager notice\n that there's something in the lane ahead of him.\n\nNow, with all that said, it's the situation where you are first in line\nthat I feel most defenseless. If you're first in line, your forward escape\nroute is seriously limited - you can only move forward to the extent that\nyou don't enter the intersection. I leave some room behind the stop line\n(although around here, the #@$*! light activators are always right up \nnext to the stop line!), and watch the mirrors. I *think* I've decided\nthat hopping off the bike might be the best way out of this situation.\nAny other ideas for being first in line with no traffic directly behind\nyou?\n\n-rob.\n", "\n\n\nMcGuyers makes a full line of polishing compounds and waxes... Read\nthe lables and pick the one that matches the marks that you see on the\npaint. Then do both you and your fiance a favor by putting a nice\nthick coat of the carnuba wax on the bike. After that those little\nscratches will just buff out.", "\n For discussion purposes, I will ignore dynamic effects like pulses\nin the exhaust pipe, and try to paint a useful mental picture.\n\n1. Unless an engine is supercharged, the pressure available to force\nair into the intake tract is _atmospheric_. At the time the intake\nvalve is opened, the pressure differential available to move air is only\nthe difference between the combustion chamber pressure (left over after\nthe exhaust stroke) and atmospheric. As the piston decends on the\nintake stroke, combustion chamber pressure is decreased, allowing\natmospheric pressure to move more air into the intake tract. At no time\ndoes the pressure ever become \"negative\", or even approach a good\nvacuum.\n\n2. At the time of the exhaust valve closing, the pressure in the\ncombustion chamber is essentially the pressure of the exhaust system up\nto the first major flow restriction (the muffler). Note that the volume\nof gas that must flow through the exhaust is much larger than the volume\nthat must flow through the intake, because of the temperature\ndifference and the products of combustion.\n\n3. In the last 6-8 years, the Japanese manufacturers have started\npaying attention to exhaust and intake tuning, in pursuit of almighty\nhorsepower. At this point in time, on high-performance bikes,\nsubstitution of an aftermarket free-flow air filter will have almost\nzero affect on performance, because the stock intake system flows very\nwell anyway. Substitution of an aftermarket exhaust system will make\nvery little difference, unless (in general) the new exhaust system is\n_much_ louder than the stocker.\n\n4. On older bikes, exhaust back-pressure was the dominating factor.\nIf free-flowing air filters were substituted, very little difference\nwas noted, unless a free-flowing exhaust system was installed as well.\n\n5. In general, an engine can be visualized as an air pump. At any\ngiven RPM, anything that will cause the engine to pump more air, be it\non the intake or exhaust side, will cause it to produce more horsepower.\nPumping more air will require recalibration (rejetting) of the carburetor.\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------", "\n\n\nhorizontally opposed 4.\nor 'boxer'\ngreat idea, actually..\nsmooth running; low center of gravity..\nalso used in some honda gullwings, corvairs, porsches (others?)\n...\n\n\n\n\n", "\nThis was a recent discussion on rec.martial-arts. Humans definitely don't\nhave all the advantages. Dogs are deceptively strong and often bred for\nfighting of one sort or another.", "\n\n\n I know the roads up there in Minnesota are pretty bad, but I doubt that\nthey are THAT bad. I've never realy tried to watch my back tyre but, my 82\nMaxim 750 will pull the front wheel off the ground if I pop the clutch.\nAdmittedly, it is easier with someone on back, maybe that's what keeps the\nrear tyre down. ;-)\n ", "\n\nI couldnt agree more. That is how it SHOULD work. People should also ALWAYS see motorcycles too.\n\nI CONSTANTLY scan behind me (I have one of those wink mirrors) and two outside mirrors. I actually spend just as much time checking my six (cops you know).\n\nI still get caught off guard every now and then. \n", "I am looking at buying a Dual Sport type motorcycle. This is my first\ncycle as well. I am interested in any experiences people have with\nthe following motorcycles, good or bad.\n\n\tHonda XR250L\n\tSuzuki DR350S\n\tSuzuki DR250ES\n\tYamaha XT350\n\nMost XXX vs. YYY articles I have seen in magazines pit the Honda XR650L \nagainst another cycle, and the 650 always comes out shining. Is it safe\nto assume that the 250 would be of equal quality ?", "\n\nHmmmmmm....put your butt in the seat and follow the road signs?\n", "\nThey changed the lights and slope of the hood, along with the new\ngrille. Otherwise, it is unchanged.\n\nInterestingly, their lack of wood and lack of a grille was a BIG\ndesign statement... they tried to defy conventional wisdom and carve\ntheir own niche ... unfortunately, sales were only half those of the\nLEXUS and hence, they now join the pack. I still wonder if much of\nthe problem wasn't the slow start from the initial AD campaign.\n\nPersonally, I like the Q without the Grille.", "\nI think you're both right. Teflon was actually discovered by accident\nbefore WWII. From what I've heard, they had some chemical (I assume it\nwas tetrafluoroethylene) in a tank and but the valve got gummed up.\nCutting it open revealed that it had polymerized.\n\nThe material was useful for seals, but it had a major problem for, say\nthe linings of vessels: it wouldn't stick to metal. What the space\nprogram did was to find a way to get it to stick. Thus we had no-stick\nfrypans on the market in the late '60s.\n", "\n740 Turbo in UK was good for 124mph. Useful for blowing away VW Beetles, though I\nbelieve the Beetle corners better. \n\nI can say without any doubt that I have never been blown away by any Volvo, ever.\nI've been blocked into a few car parks though by shit-head Volvo owners who 'only thought they'd be a few minutes'. This does not happen with the owners of any other makes of car.", "It is illegal to use anything you eavedropped on for a business \nor for an illegal use. Jurisdictions that ban radar detectors or\npolice monitors, are essentially making the claim that there is no\nother reason for a radar detector or police radio monitor. \n\nThe results of fighting these claims in courts have been mixed.\nThe federal courts are not anxious to intervene and state courts\nhave sometimes held that the feds have exclusive jurisdiction\nand sometimes they have not. A lot of state courts do not have\nenough imagination to see any use for a radar detector besides\navoiding law enforcement action for speeding.\n\nWhen you buy a radar detector, amongst the guarrantees, instructions, \nexplanations, and other detritus, is an invitation to join an\nassociation dedicated to preserving your right to use a radar detector.\n(I promise I am not making this up!)\n\nI do not think radar detector manufacturers would be making any \nheadway at all in courtrooms if police departments enforced speed \nlaws with a strict eye to public safety and a blind eye to the fund\nraiser aspect of tickets. ", "Two-volume soft-cover repair manuals\nfor all models of '91 Toyota Celicas.\n(Probably good for '92 models as well.)\nLike new condition.\nThese are the manuals used by the\nToyota dealers' mechanics - they normally\ncost over $80 new.\n\n$50 OBO", "\nIf the clutch is in, then a large chunk of counter-rotating mass is not\nrotating. Hence, at a light, reving makes it twist. Shaft effect is the\nrear end rising under power or (the real problem) getting lower to the road\nwhen the throttle is snapped shut (say when you are cornering and the heads\nare real close to the road). New GS bikes with the paralever shaft have\nalmost no shaft effect.\n\n\n\nIt's a question of how long you spend at low RPM and how much you need the\nextra light. At low RPM, 3K and under, they don't charge all that much if\nat all. The alternators put out sufficient wattage, it just that you need\nto be at 4K RPM to get it. \n\n\nFull choke. Open the gas taps. Hit the starter and ever so slightly blip the\nthrottle. It should fire. Cranking should be done with minimal throttle.\nMy R100 likes the throttles to be raised just a bit off idle.\n\nIt's an EXPERIENCE thing. Like Zen, it's hard to describe. It can be hard\nto learn if you aren't paying atttention to the differences between success\nand failure. Especially if you get really pissed off and flatten the\nbattery while trying to get it to run.\n\nIf my bike has been sitting for a few weeks, I give it a short while to\nstart. If it doesn't, I turn it off and wait a few minutes for things to\nvaporize in the fuel system and then it lights right off. I've got dual\nplugs which make it easier to start.\n\n\nThe BIG fix is the Bing carb upgrade kit. It's good for a few MPG and the\nparts are alcohol proof. The parts it replaces aren't alcohol proof. As\nlong as the bike isn't going to sit for long periods of time, gasohol is\nnice since it helps keep ping away. If your bike doesn't ping on cheap gas\nyou ought to raise the compression! (Half a smiley, the BMW twins of the\n80s and beyond have lowered compression to keep the EPA happy. Dual plugs\nand higher compression give back a big chunk of the lost perfomance).", "\nWhat astounded me on moving to the left coast from\nthe right coast, was to actually get waves from\nHARLEY riders! No, Really! I remember the first time\nas a truely memorable event.\n\nIt might have something to do with the...\n\nNo. I refuse to bring that up again.\n\nThanks EVO, for being a Harley rider that waves\nfirst. \n", "Hmmm....I was listening to the local radio expert (who is, amazingly\nenough, an Honest-to-God Expert(tm); it's amazing what he knows...), \nand he said that, based on his conversations with the inventor of \nSlick50 (who is no longer with the comapny, due to some kind of \nconflict), he avoids it like the plague. He does recommend other \nteflon-based/type oil additives, though.\n\n\t\t\t\tJames", "\n\n\n\n\nHey! What's this Hudson crap?\nActually, the only place my car has ever been broken into was in Hudson\nat my in-laws (in their driveway). Took my Vuarnets and some change.\nDamn kids.\n\nRegards,\n\nBrian\n\nbqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\nI am the engineer, I can choose K.", "\nOK...\n\n5) How about a fuel gauge that *really* told you how much fuel was\n left. Like, \"can I make it to where the gas is $1.14 or should\n I get gouged right here at $1.35?\" Accurate to the tenth of a\n gallon would be great.", "\nFord tried that also, back in 1983. My 1983 Ranger Pickup had the horn at\nthe end of the turn-signal stalk, instead of in the center of the wheel where\nGod intended it to be. :-) I drove two different cars then (the other an\n1984 Camry), and never did get used to pushing the turn-signal stalk to\nblow the horn. The only time I got it right was when I was getting the\nannual state-required safety inspection!\nNot one of Ford's better ideas.\n", "This is very curious being that they are both built by Mercury in the\nvery same factory.\n\nSteve", "Teflon? A contribution from the space program? Since the French were using\nTeflon on household items in the early 1950's, it is unlikely that it was\ninvented by NASA. As for pacemakers and calculators, again those are\nanecdotally connected with NASA.", "Reading all you folks things to do to illegally parked cars made me\nwonder who's going to carry cinder blocks on a bike(?!?!?) or is \nready to do serious damage (key carvings etc.) to a cage. Then I\nhad an idea--chain lube isn't just for chain's anymore!!! It seems\nmore reasonable to me, no permanent damage but lots of work to get\noff! (Don't ask me how I know :) Use it anywhere, the windshield,\nthe door handles, in the keyhole, etc. What a nasty mood I'm in.\nIt's raining again...", "I hope this is the correct newsgroup for this.\n\nWhat is the scoop on Methanol and its future as an alternative fuel for\nvehicles ? How does it compare to ethanol ?\n\nThere was some news about health risks involved. Anybody know about\nthat. How does the US Clean Air act impact the use of Methanol by the\nyear 1995 ?\n\nI think its Methyl Tertiary butyl ether which the future industries will\nuse as a substitute for conventional fuels.\n\nThere is company Methanex which produces 12% of the world's supply of\nMethanol. Does anybody know about it ?\n\nPlease reply by e-mail as I do not read these newsgroups.\n\nThanks in advance.", "If I have one thing to say about \"No Fault\" it would be\n\"It isn't\"", "\nEr, without a bike (Ed, maybe you ought to respond to this...), how\nyou gonna get there?\n\nIf yer going by cage, what's this got to do with r.m?\n\n\nMaybe somebody oughta gang-tool-FAQ this guy, hmmm?\n\n\n", "\n\n\nI think the only thing to watch for is the number of attachment\nstraps. Most come with 3 and some with 4, I have a Bagman 4 strap\ntankbag and because the rear of the tank is so narrow the fit\nis not optimal.", ": The driver had looked over at me casually a couple of times; I\n: know he knew I was there.\n\noh, okay. then in that case it was\nattemped vehicular manslaughter.\nhe definitely wanted to kill you.\nall cagers want to kill bikers.\nthat's the only explanation that\ni can think of.", "Saw this in today's newspaper:\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\nFORTUNE-GUZZLER BARRED FROM BARS\n--------------------------------\nBarnstaple, England/Reuter\n\n\tA motorcyclist said to have drunk away a $290,000 insurance payment in\nless than 10 years was banned Wednesday from every pub in England and Wales.\n\n\tDavid Roberts, 29, had been awarded the cash in compensation for\nlosing a leg in a motorcycle accident. He spent virtually all of it on cider, a\ncourt in Barnstaple in southwest England was told.\n\n\tJudge Malcolm Coterill banned Roberts from all bars in England and\nWales for 12 months and put on two years' probation after he started a brawl in\na pub.\n", "The European version is called 200 SX and have a 1.8 liter engine with\nturbo and have more power than the US version ( 169 HP ); it goes from\n0 to 100 Km/h in 7.5 sec and have a top speed of 225 Km/h ( 140 miles/h ).\nI just purchased one ( new ) and I am looking for a repair book. I could\nnot find one in FRANCE and GERMANY; does anybody knows where to find one ?\nIs there one in the UK ?\nProbabaly no use to look in the US as the 240 SX have here a different motor.\nI am very pleased with the car and have no problem with it; but like to have\ngood technical documentation about the car I own.", "Hm... I find this hard to believe. V16T weights about the same as\nthe Red Head, but it has hell lot more horse power. Perhaps it's\ndue to pre-production glitches? Well, to me, it still got the most\nimposing styling among all the sports cars I have seen.", "Here is a story. I bought a car about two weeks ago. I finally can\nget hold of the previous owner of the car and got all maintanence\nhistory of the car. In between '91 and '92, the instrument pannel \nof the car has been replaced and the odometer also has been reset\nto zero. Therefore, the true meter reading is the reading before\nreplacement plus current mileage. That shows 35000 mile difference\ncomparing to the mileage on the odometer disclosure from. The \ndealer never told me anything about that important story.\n\nI hope that I can return the car with full refund. Do u think this\nis possible? Does anyone have similar experiences? Any comments\nwill be appreciated. Thanks.", "I am considering the purchse of a 1987 VW Jetta GLI with 87k miles on it.\nI recently found out that there are two versions of the GLI -- 8v and 16v.\nI know of three differences between the two cars that both carry the same\nname: the 16v version has 20 more horsepower, 4 wheel discs, and a standard\nsunroof. \nOops, that's the difference between the GLI 16v and the regular GL !!\nSo in addition to the engine, what other differences exist between the\ntwo models of the Jetta GLI ?\nMore importantly, how can I tell which version this one is ? There are\nno badges that said \"16v\" so I am inclined to think that is the 8v version.\nAssuming this one (the one I looked at) is the 8v version, is there a valid\nreason to buy it instead of a comparably equipped GL which would cost less ?\n(Of course I would love to get the 16v version, but money talks.)", "+\n+>This tactic depends for its effectiveness on the dog's conformance to\n+>a \"psychological norm\" that may not actually apply to a particular dog.\n+>I've tried it with some success before, but it won't work on a Charlie Manson\n+>dog or one that's really, *really* stupid. A large Irish Setter taught me\n+>this in *my* yard (apparently HIS territory) one day. I'm sure he was playing \n+>a game with me. The game was probably \"Kill the VERY ANGRY Neighbor\" Before \n+>He Can Dispense the TERRIBLE PUNISHMENT.\n+\n+What, a dog weighs 150lb maybe, at max? You can't handle it?\n+\n+You have, I presume, thumbs? Grapple with it and tear it's head\n+off!\n+\n+Sheesh, even a trained attack dog is no match for a human,\n+we have *all* the advantages.\n\nLook, if you are worried about being attacked by a dog, just carry\nsome \"Spot\" remover with you :-).\n____________________________________________________________________________\n\t\tRussian Roulette is fun 5 out of 6 times", "\n\tChecker Motors went out of business in 1982. It's hard to get\nold Checkers that are worth restoring, since almost every one was\na fleet vehicle that was driven into the ground. If you can get a \nbody in decent shape the mechanicals should all be available _somewhere_ - \nChecker used whatever parts were around. For instance, I had a Chevy\nstraight six and a GMC Truck radiator and a Ford rear in mine.\n\n\n\tActually, you want a Checker Special if you can find one.", "\nordered 2 fork seals and 2 guide bushings from CA for my FZR. two weeks later\nget 2 fork seals and 1 guide bushing. call CA and ask for remaining *guide*\nbushing and order 2 *slide* bushings (explain on the phone which bushings are\nwhich; the guy seemed to understand). two weeks later get 2 guide bushings.\n\n*sigh*\n\nhow much you wanna bet that once i get ALL the parts and take the fork apart\nthat some parts won't fit?", "YESSS! You make me proud to\nbe an 'Merkun. Good thing you\ndidn't get shot though. Don't\ntry that with a good'ole boy in Texas.\nI once had a jeep driver south of Conroe cut me off (I was \nin my car) after I had flipped him off for doing something really idiotic\nand senseless. All 280 lbs of him stretches out of his jeep; he walks\nback (he is blocking all traffic between Dallas and Houston since the\nfreeway has been squeezed into a single lane) and says to me, \"Stick that\nfinger out again and I'll rip it off your hand and shove it down your\nsorry-ass throat.\" I stared straight ahead, unblinking. A hundred\ncars were honking. Eventually he got back into his jeep, face beet-red\nwith anger, and all the rest of the way back to Houston I tailed him, \nwaving, honking, flipping him off, yelling... I'm glad he decided \nnot to shoot me.\n/-----b-o-d-y---i-s---t-h-e---b-i-k-e----------------------------\\\n\\-----------------------s-o-u-l---i-s---t-h-e---r-i-d-e-r--------/\n", "\n\nNot too hard to remember, I bought a GS1000 new in '78. :-) It was\n3rd place in the '78 speed wars (behind the CBX & XS Eleven) with a\n11.8 @ 113 1/4 mile, and 75 horses. That wouldn't even make a good 600\nthese days. Then again, I paid $2800 for it, so technology isn't the\nonly thing that's changed. Of course I'd still rather ride the old GS\nacross three states than any of the 600's.\n\nI guess it's an indication of how much things have changed that a 12\nsecond 400 didn't seem too far out of line.", "Cannondale 3.0 Road Bike 56 cm\nBright Blue Color\nDura Ace 8 speed not STI, could be easily converted though.\n32 spoke wheelset, clinchers.\n\nComplete Bike $700 or best offer. All offers will be considered\nthis bike has to go. Desperate times call for desperate measures.\nWill consider parting out, write for details.", ": I have seen the existance of electronics solder with a 2% silver\n: content that seems to have good wetting and fatique reatings.\n: Can anyone tell me why it is not used? (silver is not such an expensive\n: metal).\n: \n: \n: Andy\n: \n\nFor the most part, silver-solder is not used for general soldering\ntasks due to the mechanism of dendritic growth. Silver-solder, when\nexposed to high humidity and placed in an electric field, will actually\ngrow dendrites which are conductive and will adventually electrically\nshort across closely spaced nodes which are creating the field. For this \nreason, silver is allowed only in hermetically sealed assemblies.\nFortunatly, tin-lead solder is quite stable and will not grow dendrites\nas fast as silver-solder. Therefore, it is used extensively.\n\n \nJerry Long", "\nI thought I posted this last year.\n\nThe women came to court with three witnesses; the two women that were in\nthe car and one neighbor that heard me shouting. My lawyer didn't like\nthe odds since there were multiple complaints both ways and the judge had\na history of finding everyone guilty of at least something, so he convinced\nus (she came without a lawyer) to drop everything. The net result was\na $500 laywer bill for me and $35 court costs for her.\n\nThe only consolation was that she had trouble scraping together the $35\nwhile $500 is not quite one week's beer money for me...", "I have a '81 DATSUN 210 HATCHBAK forsale:\n\n\tIt's a Blue Datsun\n\tTwo doors (three, since it's a hatchback)\n\t69,900 miles\n\tAutomatic\n\tVery good condition (I hate to sell it, but Phila insurance is\n\t\t\t outrageous; I also don't need a car right now)\n\tI am asking $800 or BO", "\nPlease explain the why of this. I have over 200k miles usage of clutchless\nshift and no problems.", "\n\nYeah I suppose you could do that. But then you don't get the broken knuckles,\nthe rust in your eyes, the oil bath, and the burns from the exhaust.\n\nI mean come on!...", "+\n+I know of no law, either on the books or proposed, that bans motorcycles\n+from any place that i want to go to.\n\nMany private places ban bikes. For example, the famous 17 mile\ndrive at the Monterrey Peninsula. And I have stayed at resorts\nthat sported a \"No motorcycles allowed\" sign at the entrance.\n\nAnd there have been public places. Call the AMA and ask for\nJim Bensberg (sp?) or any one else in their Legislative Office.\nThey will recound the many public places that they had to bring\nto court to reverse their ban on bikes. That includes everything\nfrom public parks to full cities. There are probably a few fights\non their books as we now speak. That is another good reason to\ndonate to their legislative fund.\n____________________________________________________________________________\n Death is life's way of telling you you've been fired -- R. Geis", "Does anyone have a rear wheel for a PD they'd like to part with?\n\nDoes anyone know where I might find one salvage?\n\nAs long as I'm getting the GIVI luggage for Brunnhilde and have\nthe room, I thought I'd carry a spare.\n\nRide Free,\n\nBill\n___________________________________________________________________ \njohnsw@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu prez=BIMC KotV KotRR \nDoD #00314 AMA #580924 SPI = 7.18 WMTC #0002 KotD #0001 \nYamabeemer fj100gs1200pdr650 Special and a Volvo. What more could anyone ask? ", "\nIn fairness, we should note that if you look up \"speculum\" in the\ndictionary (which I did when this question first surfaced), the first\ndefinition is \"a mirror or polished metal plate used as a reflector in\noptical instruments.\"\n\nWhich doesn't mean the name fits in this context, but it's not as far\noff as you might think.", "\n\n\n\t\n\tYes. But the point is that prices are competetive. Saturn may\nwell be selling a car intended on giving the dealer a $2000 profit, but \nsince a comperable Honda with $500 profit is more expensive, it may be well\nworth it to buy the Saturn.\n\n\n\n\n\n\tNot necessarily. It seems to me that Saturn salesdroids, who don't \nmake a commision, whereas their counterparts at other dealerships generally\ndo, make more $$ per hour or whatever. This means that Saturn doesn't give up\nthe profit to their employees through commision, which IS taken out of per-\ncar profits. They just pass it along to less pressureing salesmen/women.\n\n\n\tMaybe. Maybe not. Depends on accounting practices. I'd rather pay\nmore for dealer service that doesn't cut corners to contain costs...\n\n\n\n$2/100\nCKA\n'87 (Carolina) Blue Honda Civic DX\n\n", "My son is considering the purchase of a 71 MGB, which has been substantially\nrestored. The odometer has rolled over, but we can't be sure of the actual\nmileage. The engine and drive train apparently weren't touched in the\nrestoration, except for a new carb and a few hoses. He plans to do vacuum and\ncompression checks to see what they might tell us about the engine. The body\nand undercarriage have no visible rust, the interior is new, as are tires,\nfront brakes (not sure about the back), battery, bumpers and other misc parts.\nThe paint is checked in a few places, and scuffed here and there, allegedly by\na wind-blown car cover. It seemed to handle OK, except for soft front shocks.\nQuestions:\n\nAre there problem areas common to MGBs we should check out?\n\nThe brakes seem soft and rather ineffective; what should we expect in the way\nof braking action?\n\nIt seemed to be \"doggy\" when accelerating from a stop. What should we expect\nit to do, given the 4-cylinder engine?\n\nThe top is in place, but will not reach a number of the snaps. The weather\nwas cold. Should the vinyl stretch and fit when it warms up, or is it forever\nshrunk?\n\nIs it normal for the wire wheels to be painted, or are they usually chromed?\n\nGiven this rather limited description, what would be a reasonable price?\n\nGee, this turned out to be a little long--sorry. While my brother once owned\nan XK120 Jag (what a car!) we're obviously not into sports cars. Any help with\nthese questions, or suggestions on other things to investigate would surely be\nappreciated.", "\n\nVery simple. An 'Insurance Commissioner' is a bureaucrat - a regulator.\nIt is his/her duties to make rules to enforce laws. He/she cannot\nmake laws. If there is no law that covers a specific subject, say\nscam insurance companies, a regulator cannot create one. So they have\nto go to a proper legislative body to get such a law enacted. For\nthe California Insurance Commissioner, there are two possible legislative\nbodies: the California State Legislature and the U.S. Congress. We all\nknow how little the California State Legislature accomplishes, esp. \nalong the lines of insurance reform legislation (negative movement). So\nGaramendi wants the feds to do it, because: (a) he has a better chance\nof getting a federal law through, and (b) since many of the scam\ncompanies work across state lines/national borders, it is better to\nhave a law that reach out into other jurisdictions.", "\n[stuff about autobahn and safety of sho at speed deleted]\n\nThe Mustang is a much worse case of design irresponsibility than the\nSHO. \n\nIts hard to predicatbaly drift a stock Mustang because\nof the suspension.\n\n\nYes. When i think Mustang, I think school-bus + F16 motor. In\nmy mind the Mustang should be fitted with a speed limiter at 80-90\nor so. It just isn't safe, check out your local junkyard, Mustangs\noutnumber other cars by a proportion way in excess of sales in\njunkyards.\n\nI find it astonishing the CU or somesuchlike has not jumped on the\nMustang for poor brakes in relation to power. Ford should at least\nstandardize on the SVO rear brakes for all 5.0's.\n\n\n\n\nTrue of Northern Europe, latin countries are something else.\n\nKindof true. remember they were build by adolf in the '30's.\n\n\nYes.\n\n\n\"Autobahn\" is the german word for freeway. Other countries have\ndifferent names for loose equivalents; autostrada, autoroute, motorway\netc.\n\n\nEurope did seem on the brink of a 130kmh limit. It hasn't passed as\nfar as I know. typical speeds in western europe are much higher than\nthe US. Law enforcement is negligible in my experience (comapred\nto the US) as there is no revenue enhancement motivation. The things\nyou really notice are the higher speed differentials, and the more\nprofessional attitude to driving. You just never see two cars\nrunning parallel at 55.1 mph oblivious to all around them.\n\n\nYou're wrong. GTI's go this fast. Just kind of noisy, not the ideal\n\nautobahn car. A lot of times you see cars being driven with the drivers\nfoot on the floor. How do I know? - when you're not making any ground\non the identical car in front of you!\n\n\nIf something happens at 130-150 you're dead, but the same goes for much\nover 35. Driving at high speed forces you to concentrate. I feel much\nsafer driving 130+ on the autobahn than 60-80 in typical US traffic\nbecause most people seem to be awake. I've never seen any driver reading\na book on an autobahn, I see it all too often in the US.\n\nCraig\n\nIt just doesn't *seem* fast after 30 minutes or so of aclimation. everybody\ndrives that fast, no big deal. ", "\n\tUnfortunately, I am one of the \"negative-impaired\". The\n\tabove sentence says (I believe), that the bike DID move\n\toff course. Of course.\n\n\t\t\t\t;-) Michael", "\n\tThat shows how much you know about anything. The brakes on the\nSHO are very different - 9 inch (or 9.5? I forget) discs all around,\nvented in front. The normal Taurus setup is (smaller) discs front, \ndrums rear.\n\n\tYour argument still boils down to \"An SHO shouldn't be driven\nfast because I, Jim Frost, say it isn't designed to go fast.\"\n\n\tPffffftttttt.\n\n\n\tDamn straight. You're one of those people who makes stuff\nup and tries to pawn it off as God's own truth. If I want lies I can\ngo listen to television.", "\nYes! Up the coast, over to Portland, then up I-5. Really nice most\nof the way, and I'm sure there's even better ways.\n\nWatch the weather, though... I got about as good a drenching as\npossible in the Oregon coast range once... \n\n", "Just one little thing. Last year, mid-december, a cop pulled me over. It \nwas about -10 Centigrade, and it just started snowing (O.K. you are right, I \nlive in Canada). The cop checked my license, insurance, ownership, looked at \nmy frozen nose and fingers, told me to watch the speed limit more closely, \nand, entering his cruiser, told me, I was doing 68 instead of 50 km/h. \nDidn't ticket me, and I REALLY slowed down after that ( I already mentioned \nit started to snow. )\n\n Safe riding, Stefan.\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ", "Wharf Wrat rites:\n\n\nEver' once in a while, you still see a reference to the super-\nslab system as \"Interstate and Defense Highways.\" But whether\nthe military has much of anything that goes 80 on the road is\nanother matter. A few of their most whomped-up diesel trucks,\nmaybe, load permitting. The military surplus stuff I've\ndriven -- \"Jeep Classic\" (Willys/Kaiser/AMC, pre-independent\nsuspension) and Power Wagons (Slant 6 in a crew-cab pickup)\nweren't exactly congenial at highway speeds, and I wouldn't\nswear any of them would do 80 except as a bedload on a semi.\n\nYou just gotta love the standard military tire, too, or at\nleast the one they used to use. Designed circa WW II as a\ncompromise between traction in icky sticky goo and longevity\non sharp rocks and so forth, it's quite ill-adapted to high\nspeeds on civilian roadways. For those who can't remember\nwhat they look like, imagine a mountain-bike tire with a\nroad rib in the middle, scaled up to car size. Oh, yeah, and\nnarrow too. One of the standard mods for civilizing a surplus \nJeep was to install tires and wheels that reflected some of\nthe advancements made in ride and handling since D-Day.\n\nBut the point made by Wharfie and others still stands: if\nyou're going to do 80 in a mil-spec '58 Power Wagon (or a\nJeep or a tank transporter or other unwieldy rubber-tired\nvehicle) anywhere, I'd suggest the American interstate. \nYour safe speed there tends to be limited more by your car\nand skills, road maintenance, and the swarms of fools around\nyou; the roads were designed for going like the devil.\n\nNaturally, neither I nor my employer advocates unsafe or\nunlawful driving.", "MUST SELL:\n\n1988 Toyota Camry LE -- Car has AC, PS, PB, Sunroof, AM/FM\n Cassette radio, Cruise control, etc. 61000 miles.\n White with red interior.\n\nCar is in excellent condition. It is located in the Paramus, NJ area.\n$7900 or best offer.", "\nI generally find that after two or three decent hits of nitrous, my riding\nimproves enormously. Drinking is silly, your breath smells, it costs lots\nof money and the pigs can detect it with their machines. NO2 works for me,\ntry it.\n\n\nNick (the like wow, um, far out, er, Biker) DoD 1069 Concise um errr....\n\nM'like um, er Lud.", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n I own a new ford Explorer, I really love it!\nI drove the Jeep and besides the power I just didn't see\nspending the money for it! The Jeep was great but I just\nlove the Explorer! I have a 2WD and I got through the blizzard \nof 93 just fine! I drove about 400 miles in the worst part of \nstorm and it never faulterd! My own Opinion \n Doug i\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n", "Hi fellow auto enthusiasts!\n\nDoes anyone have any info on the new 4 valve per cylinder diesels Mercedes\nis working on? Any specs on outputs, engine size, will they be direct or \nindirect injection?, etc. would be welcome. From what I hear these should \nbe out late this year, next year??\n\nThank you in advance for your replies!", "I guess that makes Altima the most generic car in the US.\n", "New England Area Major Flea Market *** DATES *** 1993 P 1 of 2\nAll events are Ham Radio/ Electronic related except ~_____~ \n*******************************************************************************\n1993 Contact Source\n*******************************************************************************\n\n3 April Upper Saddle River NJ CRRC 9-3 sell @8 Jack W2EHD 201 768 8360 D\n\n4 April Southington CT SARA @HS $20@6:3 $10@8:3 $3@9 N1GCV 203 621 6191 F\n\n17 April Nashua NH NE Antique RC $5@8 $1@9 @ Res Ctr Church Ray 508 865 1290\n \n18 April Cambridge MA FLEA at MIT Nick 617 253 3776 F\n buy $2@9A sellers $10/sp@7A $8in adv $35 for season pass\n 3rd Sunday Each Month April thru October \n\n18 April Webster MA ECARA @ Pt Breeze Rest $3 tables $10 Gary 203 974 2564 F\n\n18 April Agawam MA HCRA @ Southwick Rec Ctr $3@9A Bob W1ZGP 203 653 0715 F\n\n23,24,25 April Dayton OH adm $11 sell $30/50++ evenings 513 767 1107 F\n\n2 May Yonkers NY @Lincoln HS Otto WB2SLQ 914 969 1053 A\n\n7-8 May Rochester NH Hoss Traders @FG ex13 off rt 16 $5 noon fri WA1IVB sase\n\n15 May N Smithfield RI RIFMRS @VFW Main St 8A Rick K1KYI 401 725 7507 \n\n16 May Cambridge MA FLEA at MIT Nick 617 253 3776 F\n\n16 May Pittsfield MA @Taconic HS Sell $5@7 Buy $2@8 Cliff W1SJV 413 743 3334 \n\n21-22-23 May Rochester NY ARRL-NY Conv @ Monroe FG Harold K2HC 800 724 8515 F\n\n5 June S Burlington VT Mitch WB2JSJ 802 879 6589\n\n6 June Newington CT @HS Flea Les KA1KRP 203 523 0453\n\n12 June Bangor ME Pine St ARC @Hermon ES 146.34/94 8AM-$2 Roger 207 848 3846 \n\n20 June Cambridge MA FLEA at MIT Nick 617 253 3776 F\n\n17 July Nashua NH NE Antique RC $5@8 $1@9 @ Res Ctr Church Ray 508 865 1290\n\n17 July Union ME @ Fairground $3@7AM State Conv Skeet KA1LPW 207 622 2915 \n\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\nLAST UPDATE 3-29-93 de W1GSL P 1 of 2\n*******************************************************************************\nAdditions/ Corrections via Internet w1gsl@athena.mit.edu\n US Mail W1GSL POB 82 MIT Br Cambridge MA 02139\n SASE for updated copy as issued.\n\f\n\n\n1993 Contact Source\n*******************************************************************************\n\n18 July Cambridge MA FLEA at MIT Nick 617 253 3776 F\n 3rd Sunday Each Month April thru October \n\n24 July Manchester NH NHARA @HI 8A$4 NE DC 300Ts (no TG) WB1HBB 603 432 6011 F\n\n8 Aug White Planes NY WECAfest Sarah N2EYX 914 962 9666 D\n\n8 Aug Wellseley MA WARS+BARS @Babson College Barry WN1N 508 877 4947 T\n\n14 Aug St Albans ME @ Snow Mobile Club Hitch K1HHC 207 796 2282 \n\n15 Aug Cambridge MA FLEA at MIT Nick 617 253 3776 F\n\n29 Aug Fall River MA BCRA Tom WA1LBK 508 674 4163 T+\n\n11 Sept Windsor ME @ Fairground $3@7AM Skeet KA1LPW 207 622 2915 \n\n12 Sept Gaithersburg MD FAR @Mg Cty FG $5@6A- $7TG Nancy Drahim 703 691 0078 J\n\n12 Sept S Dartmouth MA SE Mass ARA 8A- Dan N1HCV 508 933 0678 +\n\n19 Sept Cambridge MA FLEA at MIT Nick 617 253 3776 F\n\n19 Sept Sandy Hook CT Candlewood ARA Harold KB1US A\n\n25 Sept Greenbush ME WCSN/BARC @WCSN xmtr Ed Cockburn 207 732 4366 \n\n26 Sept Framingham MA @ HS $12@8 $5@9 $2@10 Barry WN1N 508 877 4947 F\n\n26 Sept Yonkers NY Metro 70 ARC Otto WB2SLQ 914 969 1053 A\n\n15,16 Oct Rochester NH Hoss Traders @FG ex13 off rt 16 $5 noon fri K1RQG \n\n17 Oct Cambridge MA FLEA at MIT Nick 617 253 3776 F\n\n13 Nov Plymouth MA Mayflower RC @Mem Hall 9-3 sell@8 Jim NM1F 508 747 2224 ", "Is there a readily available solvent that does a good job at removing the \ncorrosion/encrustation that collects on the battery terminals (usually the \ncathode) when using alkaline batteries (or more accurately, when NOT using \nthem for a long time)? \n", "\nHey, man, you brought it up. I agree completely, driving drunk is really\nstupid, and I understand and appreciate that you feel bad about it. But\nDWI is endemic in our society. It is a REAL problem. And we, as \nmotorcyclists, can be in the worst of vulnerable positions around a drunk\ndriver. (Alert readers might remember that last year I witnessed a DWI\naccident (right bloody in front of me), and was unable to save the life \nof one of the participants, as I reported here.) Also, drunk driving by\nmotorcyclists is a prime cause of their injury and death, which raises the\ninsurance rates, forces stupidly restrictive laws, and turns the public\nagainst those of us who ride responsibly.\n\nIn my view, drunk driving should carry a mandatory prison sentence.\nIt is one of the traffic offenses which is NOT a public funds issue,\nbut a genuine safety issue. So if YOU bring up the subject on rec.moto,\nadmitting having been caught DWI, and looking for sympathy over the \nconsequences, don't expect people to respond with warm wishes.", "\n\nValve seat wear?\n\n\nTony\n", "\nMotorcycles are not allowed on th 17 mile drive at pebble Beach.", "\nA couple of other tips.\n\n1) Make a habit of parking the bike so that instruments are facing away\n from the sun.\n\n2) Meguiar's Mirror Glaze Plastic Polish & Plastic Cleaner. (Cue canned\n product plug #2543):\n\n\nWhat you want are Meguiar's Mirror Glaze Plastic Polish and Plastic\nCleaner. They are very mild abrasives meant to remove scratches from\nplastic. For fine scratches just use the Polish, for bigger ones start\nwith the Cleaner and finish with the Polish. The stuff is $5-8 bucks per\nbottle at most auto or motorcycle parts stores. Don't choke over the\nprice too much, since both bottles will probably last you 10 years. The\nstuff works great on plastic watch \"crystals\" and compact discs too.", "\n\ni'm sorry, as i have never heard of any of this. Guess they don't think\nit's important enough for a classroom, and i was going on what i've seen\nin pics.(some movies--real nice scource there, huh?) I just always \nrecall thinking that GOOD roads of asphalt didn't come around til the\nInterstate Hiway Act, or whatever they called it(60's?), and that wood and\ncobblestone roads were fairly rare up through the depression, except in\noverpopulated places like England and US cities. Obviously netwisdom\nsays i am wrong.\n\n\ni knew it was almost always done, but i knew of no reason that it might not\nbe done the other way by DeSoto for their car. Seems like they had some\nother deviations from the norm too, at times :-)\n", "\nSorry, by \"they\" I meant autobahns, not US freeways.\n\n\nWell, I've driven in every state but Alaska, and drive about 60k per year.\nI take long cross country trips any chance I get - its fun for me and I\ncan get reimbursment.\nMy job allows me to drive rather than fly. Not to labor the point, but\nI've driven just about every freewayin the US, Germany, UK and France plus\nsome in Mexico, which was surpisingly good.\n\n\nYes, but as a %age of the total freeway in the US? \nAll you have to do in this case is mark the hazard, advising people to\nslow to 85 or so. \n\n\nTexas freeways are varied, sometimes a good surface. Mostly flat. But,\nI5 in CA is comparable and hilly.\n\nGiven the absence of other traffic and car built for 130 (e.g. 535) \nmost US freeways are just fine. The problem is other road users and\ncops.\n", "This Summer I'm going to use my vacation drivin (riding)\nthrough the States.\nAnd I do Have some questions that I would like to post here::\nSince I'm from Norway I was wondering\nHow much does it cost to rent a Bike in the States?\n\n(I'm Probarly going to the San Fransisco/San Jose area\nthe ride around (I'think))\n\nAs you might have noticed I still haven't made any plans\nso if you know about places I ought to visit \nPlease e-mail me...", "\n\n\n\nI've been asking myself this same question for the past year, so, if/when\nyou find out, would you please share the magistic answer with me.. \n\nThe way I see it right now, work twice as hard so you can have both.\n\ncheers :)", "\n: From: OPDBS@vm.cc.latech.edu\n: Subject: Taurus/Sable rotor recall\n\n: My '92 Taurus GL with only 26k on the clock also has rotor warp.\n: Apparently they HAVEN'T fixed the problem yet. But try convincing the Ford\n: service person to fix it for free...Right!!!\n\n: Tony\n\n\nGads, I have heard so many horror stories with Taurus and Sable cars! I thought\nthese were premium American automobiles. The way they sell, you'd think so.\nIs Ford really no better than in the late '70s when it was turning out tin\ncans like the Granada and the Fairmount? Which would you get, a Taurus or \na Camry or Accord?\n", "Hi there, maybe you can help me...\n\nI have an '88 Corolla with a 5 speed as the subject line says. The gearbox\nseems excessivly clunky. I used to have an '85 Corolla, and it was also \nsomewhat clunky, but it had 30,000 more miles on it, and it wasn't nearly as\nbad as this car! Is there fluid in the 5speed case? If there is, could it\njust be low, or in need of a change? As I recall, only the autos have fluid.\nOr am I just mistaken? Please no flames for owning an import. I also have\nan old Dodge, but it's not in very good shape these days...", "\n\n\nSilly boy! You read the rest of that jibberish! go back and read rule\n#1.\n\n\nOK, for the record, Spike is jointly owned. The registration says -or-\n(Uhhh, what _does_ the title say, Beth?) Beth brought the ad to my\nattention, I'd been half heartedly lusting after an SR500 for years. I\nhad successfully avioded buying it by rationalizing that I didn't need\nto spend the $$ on it. Then Beth piped up with \"I'll pay for half of\nit!\" I was beaten. \n\n\nWatch it buddy! Both of those are fine rides! Beth loves riding\npillion on the Connie, true, the 'Ol Sport isn't her cup of tea (she\ncan't get it off of the side stand) but she agrees that it's a very\nfine ride.\n\n\n ^^^^^^^\nI'll buy that. I'll even loan you a quarter to buy a clue.\n", "\nA traffic citation is an accusation of having committed a crime.\nThat's why they have to go through the motions of having a trial if you\nwant one, you are still innocent until proven guilty. Cops are not the\nonly ones who can accuse people of committing crimes, anyone who\nwitnesses a crime can do so.\n\nGo to the Highway Patrol and explain the situation, give them a\ndescription of the car and the license number, and tell them the\nspecific violation of the law which you witnessed and wish to prosecute\n(ie, search the Vehicle Code and have the section number handy). Fill\nout the ticket and sign it. It will go through the same system any\nticket a cop writes goes through. If contested, you will have to\nappear in court to prosecute. Your word will not carry the same weight\nas a cop's.\n", "\n\tYup. Unfortunately, as has been pointed out, the cost of insurance\ndoes NOT go down with No Fault. The crappiest drivers make out like bandits\nbecause they no longer have to bear the responsibility of paying for\ninsurance that they have boosted in price for themselves by being crappy\ndrivers. The good drivers now pay through the nose to spread the cost of\nthe crappy drivers' actions, and that's not fair.\n\n\tAny plan that caps rates for crappy drivers is inherently a piece of\nshit, because the rest of us end up paying more.\n\n\tAny plan that uses speeding tickets as a basis for raising rates is\nalso a piece of shit as it is based upon the lie that faster drivers are\ninherently less safe than slower drivers, and the NHTSA disproved that two\nyears ago now.\n\nLater,", "\n\n\n\n\nI sold my '86 Sprint last April with 95k on it. I'd driven it since\nthe previous July, putting 20k miles on it. The sensor light used to\nlight up regularly, starting about 5k miles after I bought it. \nMy brother and I rebuilt the engine but used all of the original equipment,\nso I suppose the sensor could have used replacement. Performance (hah,\nif you could call it that) did not change. Perhaps emissions increased,\nbut how much emissions could a CA-registered 3 cylinder engine produce?\nThat was a neat car, I held the engine block easily in one hand! Has\nanyone ever driven the 'Turbo' variant? Just curious...", "\nOh yeah, all the time. On a nice spring/summer day, I roll down the window\nand drive around looking for bikes. When a bike motors by in the opposite\ndirection, I stick my arm out and hi5'em. My arm feels like a million \nbucks when I'm doing this a 60km/h. I do the same thing with cyclists.\nThe only problem with hi5ing a cyclist is their always in the right hand lane.\nI hafta roll down the other window and hi5 them on the back. Oh well, I \nthink they appreciate the thought. \n\nRegards, Ted.\n", "\n\nAgain, from my alcohol server's class:\nThe absolute *most* that eating before drinking can do is slow the absorption\ndown by 15 minutes. That gives me time to eat, slam one beer, and ride like\nhell to try to make it home in the 10 minutes left after paying, donning \nhelmet & gloves, starting bike...\n\n", "CB>From: behanna@syl.nj.nec.com (Chris BeHanna)\n\nCB>>|>\nCB>>|> Grf. Dropped my Shoei RF-200 off the seat of my bike while trying to\nCB>>|> rock\nCB>>|> it onto it's centerstand, chipped the heck out of the paint on it...\n\nCB> Do I have to be the one to say it?\n\nCB> DON'T BE SO STUPID AS TO LEAVE YOUR HELMET ON THE SEAT WHERE IT CAN\nCB> FALL DOWN AND GO BOOM!\n\nCB> HELMETS GO ON THE GROUND, ON A TABLE, ON A CHAIR, ON A SHELF, OR ON\nCB> ANY OTHER SURFACE THAT IS LARGE ENOUGH TO SUPPORT THEM SO THAT THEY\nCB> WILL NOT EASILY BE KNOCKED DOWN.\n\n\nAnother good place for your helmet is your mirror (!). I kid you not. If\nyou own a typical standard or other bike with fairly average mirrors\nthat screw into your handlebars, your helmet should fit over your mirror\nand be fairly stable. I doubt I have to mention it, but this trick isn't\nquite so smart on a GoldWing, CBR600, any GSXR, or any bike with\nfairing-mounted mirrors.\n\nI was a little surprised, though, to find that you had your helmet on\nyour seat while you were centerstanding your bike. I usually leave my\nhelmet on until my bike is parked, if for no other reason than I\nwouldn't want my helmet to be on any surface that I was about to start\ntilting and jerking . . .\n\nRyan Cousinetc.|1982 Yamaha Vision XZ550 -Black Pig of Inverness|Live to Ride\nKotRB |1958 AJS 500 C/S -King Rat |to Work to\nDoD# 0863 |I'd be a squid if I could afford the bike... |Flame to\nryan.cousineau@compdyn.questor.org | Vancouver, BC, Canada |Live . . .\n\nI saw the quote below on a pair of Nankai race-replica leathers. I think\nthis sort of phrase is typically known as \"Japlish.\"\n\n * SLMR 2.1a * \"Drive Agressively Rash Magnificently\" -Nankai Leathers\n ", "\nStep 1) Join the AMA (American Motorcycling Association). Call 1-800-AMA-JOIN.\n\nStep 2) After you become a member, they will ship your bike, UNCRATED to \njust about anywhere across the fruited plain for a few hundred bucks.\n\nI have used this service and have been continually pleased. They usually\nonly take a few days for the whole thing, and you do not have to prepare\nthe bike in any way (other than draining the gas). Not to mention that\nit is about 25% of the normal shipping costs (by the time you crate a bike\nand ship it with another company, you can pay around $1000)\n", "\n [...]\n\nI think you posted your article 15 days too late :-)) April 1st is over.\nI don't like nuclear powerplants but i think it's not fair to tell such\n\"storys\" about them. OK ?\nLet me try to explain what that tower is used to:\n -1st. Even the modernst nuclear powerplant is only a simple steam-engine.\n It has an hightech \"boiler\" but the rest is still verry verry \n conventional. And if you've already visited any condensation-\n powerstation you'l have seen the cooling towers too.\n If you look at any good book about thermophysics you'll find\n a chapter about the \"CARNOT-process\" which describes how to\n get energy from a temperature difference ! And that is the reason\n for cooling towers too !!! You only can get energy if you've an\n temperature gradient. That means that you have steam on the one \n side and need to cool down the steam 'till you get water\n again on the other side if you want to get aprox. 30% of the \n energy you (or better the uranium) brought into the water to\n let it boil. If you only have hot steam on the one and \"cold\"\n steam on the other side you'll loose much more of the energy.\n And so they cool down the steam to get at least the 30% of\n energy that carnot will give them.\n The cooling towers are for cooling the steam !\n The vapor you'll see is NOT the steam of the main core circulation,\n because that steam is radioactive ! The circulation is divided in\n AT LEAST 2 circuits connected about heat exchangers to prevent\n radioactive pollution of the environment !\n \n -2nd. OK, the main core IS hot, but even in the modernst HighTemperature-\n Reactors (HTR) they only run at ~800 deg celsius. This is still\n verry far away from uraniums melting point which is somewhere\n around 2000 deg. celsius ! But you'll have lot's of problems with\n the boiler's steel. That's because at this temperature the\n metal is attacked by steam and will corrode verry fast.\n This is only for BWR's. The new He cooled reactors have temperatures\n up to 1200 deg. celsius. But this is only experimental. \n\n -3rd. I personaly think that nuclear waste should be as low as ever\n possible because the dose you get will accumulate about the\n years. Today 1 mRem and next year 0.5 mRem won't be 0.75 mRem\n at all. It accumulates and even in 80 years you'll still have\n 1.5 mRem. And i'm not interested in glowing in the night and\n getting children with 2 heads. This is my point of view.\n \n\nOnly my 0.02$ !\n\nChristian Reisel \n\nstudent of electronic sciences\n\n-- \nChristian Reisel, Goldammerweg 2, W-6601 Buebingen, Germany\nVoice +49 6805 22179 Fax & Email +49 6805 22179\n\nPGP PubKey:", "\nDon't worry about leaks. Don't worry about which way to turn the damn thing.\nTake a good claw hammer and pry it straight out. Now, you'll notice, after\nall the oil pours out, that there are no theads where there used to be.", "\n\n\n\nWell, my driveway is... Just keep an eye out for the blue GLH Turbo that \nutilizes the \"hit-the-ground-running\" merging technique. \nAt least I don't have a dog that you need worry about.\n\nLast week while entering a sand/gravel covered intersection in the country, \nI caught something unkosher out of the corner of my eye (you know that \ndisgusting sensation when great, as-of-yet unidentified, evil is about to \nintimately acquaint itself with you-- kind of like knowing that that darkening \nshadow around you just cannot possibly be anything even remotely good, because\nit probably has something to do with a Boeing 747 behaving, gravitationally\nspeaking, much like a brick). Negotiating my way into this intersection that \nsomehow reminded me of Daytona beach (sans H2O, sun, & babes) I manage to get a\nglance at my impending destiny. Lucifer's own DOG. Hell's secret blend\nof canine-- Doberman and Rottweiler (it moved with the grace of a Doberman,\nyet had the hulk and jowels of the Rottweiler-- a creature with a definite\n*wrong* end to be at). The picture in my mirrors was fuzzy, but there was no \nmistaking the fangs and saliva trail. \nTo shorten a verbose tale, my burly gaurdian-angels once again performed above\nand beyond the call of duty, carried the bike through the sand-trap (I honestlyhave no idea how), and left the minion of Beelzebub with a face that \nsuspiciously resembles a Metzler tread. No blood, though-- Rats.\n\nMoral: I'm not really sure, but more and more I believe that bikers ought \n to be allowed to carry handguns.\n\n-Erc.\n\n_______________________________________________________________________________\nC Eric Sundheim\nGrandRapids, MI, USA\n`90 Hondo VFR750f\nDoD# 1138", " ^^^^^^\n perSOB, I kinda like that\n\nMost people wave or return my wave when I'm on my Harley.\nOther Harley riders seldom wave back to me when I'm on my\nduck. Squids don't wave, or return waves ever, even to each\nother, from what I can tell.\n\n--\nMichael Manning\nmmanning@icomsim.com (NeXTMail accepted.)", "#>In article <1993Apr15.222600.11690@research.nj.nec.com> \n#>> ...\n#>> \tSeveral chemists already have come up with several substitutes for\n#>> R12. You don't hear about them because the Mobile Air Conditioning \n#>Society\n#>> (MACS), that is, the people who stand to rake in that $300 to $1000 per\n#>> retrofit per automobile, have mounted an organized campaign to squash \n#>those\n#>> R12 substitutes out of existence if not ban them altogether (on very \n#>shaky\n#>> technical grounds, at best, on outright lies at worst).\n#>> ...\n#>\n#>Now, I'm not saying you're wrong because I know that the R-12 substitutes \n#>exist, but this sounds a lot like the 200mpg carbs that the oil companies \n#>keep us all from getting.\n# \n#\tIt sounds crazy, but it's true. One of the best R-12 subsitutes,\n#GHG-12, is currently a commercial product. Unfortunately, the SAE committee\n#on mobile air conditioning is comprised almost exclusively of MACS members.\n#Such being the case, no papers about any alternative refrigerant other than\n#R-134a have been accepted for review/publication.\n# \n#\tYo, John? You want to provide some more details? Or should I just\n#repost your voluminous repost?\n# \n#Later,\n#-- \n#Chris BeHanna\tDoD# 114 1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide - Jubilee's Red Lady\n#behanna@syl.nj.nec.com\t 1975 CB360T - Baby Bike\n#Disclaimer: Now why would NEC\t 1991 ZX-11 - needs a name\n#agree with any of this anyway? I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.\n\n\n We here are *VERY* interested in info on R12 substitutes (in fact I\n think we really need all the info on this we can get).\n\n I would really appreciate technical, supply, and hardware-upgrade\n details. \n\n Also, R12 is a useful solvent/reagent in the extraction/production of\n certain pharmaceuticals. Any info on the substitutes' corresponding\n usefullness?\n\n I am currently working with the local engineers who are making sure\n we are compliant with the regulations. The trouble with regulations is\n that they only tell you what you are no longer permitted to do, not what\n you should do instead.\n\n I think the cause of the new regulations is the Montreal Protocol\n which has a definite CFC-phase-out schedule. (Of course the cause of\n the Montreal Protocol was all the research done on the causes of the\n Ozone Depletion Problem.)\n\n Someone asked earlier about why the governments were working so fast\n to ban the ozone-depleting (CFC) chemicals and not gasolines and other\n greenhouse-gas-producing compounds. The greenhouse effect (produced by\n infrared-trapping gasses like CO2 and methane) and the ozone-hole problem\n (produced by long-lived, chlorine-containing molecules) are not the same\n thing. It is a lot easier to do something about not using the CFC's\n (chloro-fluorocarbons) than it is to stop producing CO2 and methane which\n are natural byproducts of combustion and of living (animal) organisms.\n Planting more trees and not destroying so many existing trees would help\n the greenhouse-gas problem, but would do nothing for the ozone problem.\n\n Fred W. Bach , Operations Group | Internet: music@erich.triumf.ca\n TRIUMF (TRI-University Meson Facility) | Voice: 604-222-1047 loc 327/278\n 4004 WESBROOK MALL, UBC CAMPUS | FAX: 604-222-1074\n University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., CANADA V6T 2A3", "\nObviously never rode a good 250 or open-class bike!", "Anyone, \n\n I am a serious motorcycle enthusiast without a motorcycle, and to\nput it bluntly, it sucks. I really would like some advice on what would\nbe a good starter bike for me. I do know one thing however, I need to\nmake my first bike a good one, because buying a second any time soon is\nout of the question. I am specifically interested in racing bikes, (CBR\n600 F2, GSX-R 750). I know that this may sound kind of crazy\nconsidering that I've never had a bike before, but I am responsible, a\nfast learner, and in love. Please give me any advice that you think\nwould help me in my search, including places to look or even specific\nbikes that you want to sell me.\n\n Thanks :-)", "GK>I hear that tires for this car can get really expensive. I\nGK>currently have Goodyear GT+4s that cost the previous owner $500\nGK>for four.\n\nTry Eagle GAs, wear better, cost less, lose little handling, and are\nquieter. I'm going to switch to 225s in my next set, with new rims\n(Fitti Twists) if I can afford 'em by the time my GAs wear out.\n\nGK>is a whole new ritual for me with that fangled pedal! Also, I began\nGK>to wonder how strong that brake really is. (Today, I backed out of\nGK>parking spot today and started to drive away before I noticed\nGK>the glowing brake light. Oops.)\n\nMine is strong enough to not let the car move when it's in, even if you're\ngiving it enough gas to normally move it in 1st. You might need a brake\nadjustment.\n\nGK>The driver's power window creaks when closed all the way. The same\nGK>thing happens in my parents 1989 Mercury Sable. Oddly, all the\nGK>other windows work smoothly.\n\nWatch it closely, the glass actually flexes from the torque in the motor, it\nseems stronger in the drivers window then the others.\n\nGK>I'm liking the interior amenities more and more each day. The\nGK>cupholders are great.\n\nI've found the location (under the armrest in between the seats) to be a\npain, but like having them. They moved it into the dash (pop out) in the\n'91 model year, MUCH better.\n\nGK>I really feel like I don't deserve this car. I really can't\nGK>believe that I could afford it. I got this car ten years\nGK>ahead of schedule. :-)\n\nI did the same thing. Got a black '89 with 65.5k miles on it for $8k\nin July '92.\n\nGK>I've put together the responses to my questions about the cars, as\nGK>well as other posts with useful information on these cars. I'll be\nGK>posting this in the form of a FAQ soon.\n\nGrabbed it and archived it. Thanks!\n\nGK>If anyone is interested in starting a mailing list, please speak up!\nGK>I don't know if I have the resources here at Purdue to start one, but\nGK>maybe someone out there does.\n\nI'll be starting one this summer, one way or the other (current software\nI use dosen't support mailing lists, but is on the RSN list - if not, I'm\ngoing to upgrade to another package that DOES have it), that is, if nobody\nelse beats me to it. Will make an announcement here when it goes up.\n ", "\n There's only one car that really fits your needs. It's spelled:", "\nThe FT-500 is a good beginner's bike with:\n * a reasonable seating position\n * enough power to get you up and around, but\n not so much it'll scare the bejeebers out of you\n * tips over well, and easy to pick up\n (don't ask)\n * simple maintenance\n\nI've had mine for four or so years, and haven't had any\nserious problems with it. I bought it used for $750 with\nabout 8000 miles on it.\n\nJust last week, someone in the neighborhood stopped by to\nask me about it; whether I thought it was a good beginner's\nbike, is it comfortable and powerful enough, blah blah blah...\nSeems he found one used for < $500 with about 3600 miles on it.\n\nThe reall \"trick\" mod I've heard was to take the front end from\na 600 hurricane and slide it in. This was from a guy who\ncampaigns two Ascots in SOS racing. He says they do pretty\nwell too, once you strip off the starter, lights and other\nassorted street paraphernalia, its a pretty fast and light bike.", "]\"Get the organization to act on it\" is easy to say, but says little\n]about what one really can and should do. What the organization\n]actually will do is largely determined by the president and directors,\n]as far as I can see. That's what makes it so important to vote in an\n]election of officers.\n\nif I remember right, I heard that in the last election, only 18% of the\nmembers actually cast votes. I wonder if the current board and their\nfriends and relatives make up 18% of the membership :-) :-) I certainly\nplan on staying with the club long enough to vote and to see the results.\n\n]It does strike me that the BMWMOA is a lot less politically active (in\n]the state and national arenas, not infighting) than other M/C\n]organizations. Should we change this? Or just join the other groups\n]that already are in politics?\n\nI wouldn't support the MOA becoming politically active in that sense.\nthe AMA already knows how to do that and I'd rather see the MOA support\nthe AMA in a manner that the *AMA* needs. I think that more could be\naccomplished from one strong front rather than two not neccessarily \ncoordinated ones.\n", "Yo, Whaz up!!!\n\nEarlier, I was reading on the net about using Splitfire plugs. One\nguy was thinking about it and almost everybody shot him to hell. Well,\nI saw one think that someone said about \"Show me a team that used Split-\nfires....\" Well, here's some additional insight and some theories\nabout splitfire plugs and how they boost us as oppossed to cages.\n\nSplitfires were originally made to burn fuel more efficiently and\nincreased power for the 4x4 cages. Well, for these guys, splitfires\nincreased performance by increasing TORQUE. They weren't focusing\non horsepower numbers.\n\nNow how does this related to us high performance pilots? Well, that\ndepends. Do you pilot a high performance 2- or 4-cylinder machine?\nIn the case of 4-cylinders, splitfires would increase overall torque,\nbut 4's make more top end horsepower with its torque packed down low.\nSo for 4's, splitfires would not significantly increase power.\n\nBut what about twins?... Many of you 4 guys laugh at some of us twins,\nbut many times we carry less weight which sometimes can make up for\nthe hp loss (see Doug Polen vs. Scott Russell, Daytona 1992). However,\ntwins make more torque thoughout their powerbands. So how does this\ntranslate? Increased torque should \"theoretically\" help twins make\nmore power. Splitfire claims that there should be not extra mods\nor anything made, just stick 'em in.\n\nNow I don't know about all of this (and I'm trying to catch up with\nsomebody about it now), but Splitfires should help twins more than\n4's. \n\nAs far as racing teams.... Ducati team \"Fast by Ferraci\" used\nsplitfires in the 1989 season (this is when they had Jamie James\nrunning for em), but I don't know why they stopped since then.\nAlso, somebody check to see if they had them in 88.....\n\nPeace.\n\nWarren\nwcd82671@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu\n\"Have Suzuki, will travel...\"\n\nAt a local \"fix-er-up-er\" shop, the bike repairest looked at a\ndumped ZX-7. Then he asked the guy...\n\n\"What happened...\" \"I dumped the clutch...\"\n\"How fast...\" \"Pretty fast...\"\n\"Insurance...\" \"Nope.\"\n\nThe fixer smiled.....", "Did you remember to clamp ground to the engine block first?", "\nI would stongly recommend a factory service manual, and if you are not\nan experienced machanic then get a chiltons or haynes (sp?) ALSO.\nMake sure the bike has cooled at least 6 hours since being run.\nRead the books and if you have more questions you could mail me.\nAlso, be very careful when tightening valve cover bolts. They take\nvery little torque and breaking one is disaster.", "\nWhen it's too windy to stand.\n\nWhen you're on the road in high winds, stay alert. Even more alert\nthan your \"alert 'cause you're on a motorcycle and they're out to kill\nyou\" kind of alert. Be aware of the terrain, and how it may funnel\nwind in sudden gusts (well, not gusts to somebody standing there, but\nit's gusty 'cause you ride through it). If you are riding in a steady\ncrosswind, be aware of a hill that will block the wind, and adjust your\nlean angle. Be aware of passing trucks to your windward side, your\nlean angle will change dramatically both as you enter and as you leave\ntheir turbulance cone. Reducing your profile may help, ie, lean on the\ngas tank and kiss the triple clamp. Keep a nimble hand on the\nsteering, be ready to countersteer into and out of sudden wind bursts.\nKeep a larger than usual buffer zone, both ahead and behind, and to the\nside, you can easily be blown half a lane over before you can react by\ncountersteering. Keep a close eye on traffic in your mirror, if\nsomeone is coming up wanting to pass, get out of their way early. Stop\noften for short brakes, extensive riding in high winds is both mentally\nand physically fatiguing.\n", "Is clear coat really worth it? Yes, on the showroom floor, the cars\nhave this deep, lustrous shine that just can't be found on paint jobs\nthat aren't clear coated. On the other hand, it seems that every clear\ncoated car that I've seen on the road (in a parking lot, etc.) has\nfine scratches throughout the paint job. As does, alas, my 1992 Laser.\n\nSeveral weeks ago I had my car professionally polished and waxed.\nWhen I picked it up, it had that same showroom shine that I remember\nfrom a year ago when I bought it. Several days ago I took my car\nto the dealership for some work. As an added bonus, they washed my\ncar. Unfortunately, whoever washed it either didn't get the roof\n(which is black, the rest of the car is red) completely clean before\nhe dried it, or he used a dirty towel. Now my showroom shine is a\nhaze of fine scratches that aren't really visible until the light\nhits the roof at a particular angle.\n\nI am, to put it mildy, somewhat peeved about this. Do I have any \nchance of getting the dealership to do something about this?\nMy guess is 'no'. Is there any product on the market that provides\na solution to this problem? Or am I faced with the prospect of\nhaving the car professionally polished again to hide the scratches?\nInformation, commiseration, and sympathy all greatly appreciated . . .", "\nI'd recommend that you hop on the back of it and cruise - that's a\nreally nice ride, if you choose your route with any care at all.\nShouldn't cost more than about $30 in gas, and maybe a night's motel\nbill...\n\n\t\t\t _MelloN_", "Mike> Is it possible to do a \"wheelie\" on a motorcycle with shaft-drive?\n\nSure. In fact, you can do a wheelie on a shaft-drive motorcycle\nwithout even moving. Just don't try countersteering.\n\n:-)", "\nOne of my brothers had spent a lot of time practicing bizzare tricks on\nhis megabuck/micromass bike. He said he once repelled a dog attack by\npicking up the rear of the bike and smacking the dog in the side of the\nhead with the rear wheel. The dog had _no_ idea what hit him, and he\nfled quite rapidly. Then again, he could jump garbage cans without a\nramp, so I don't think I'd care to try this one on a motorcycle.\n\n\nThat's almost unfair, I've never seen a dog that could use a phone. :-)", "\nNo comparison. The BEL is just a hooped up wideband Escort like detector.\nNo directional indicators, no Bogey counter, no radar signature analysis, no\nremote display option, not as sensitive, not as well built. \nHad it, sent it back!", "I don't want to do this, but I need money for school. This is\na very snappy bike. It needs a little work and I don't have the\nmoney for it. Some details:\n\n\t~19000 miles\n\tMitsubishi turbo\n\tnot asthetically beautiful, but very fast!\n\tOne of the few factory turboed bikes... not a kit!\n\tMust see and ride to appreciate how fun this bike is!\n\nI am asking $700 or best offer. The bike can be seen in\nBennington, Vermont. E-mail for more info!", "\n Request for opinions:\t\n\n Which is better - a one-piece Aerostitch or a two-piece Aerostitch?\n\n\n We're looking for more than \"Well, the 2-pc is more versatile, but the \n 1-pc is better protection,...\"\t\n\n Thanks in advance,\n Nadine\n\n\nWhat is best? Books have been written on that! But in regard to\nAeroStich it really depends on your particular size, shape and needs.\nIf you upper and lower body are not proportional (according to aero\ndimensions) then it probably is going to be better mixing and matching\nthe 2 piece suit. I have the 2 piece suit and I am very happy with it.\nHaving my life quota of scars from crashing off road, I am very\nconcerned with good protection and I believe that the difference in\nprotection between the 1 and 2 piece suits is almost negligible. I\nthink the optional hip pads and back protector make much more of a\ndifference. One thing that is nice about the 2 piece is if you go\nsomewhere and then want to walk around for a while (still with jacket)\nyou can just detach and stow the pants. \n\nOne thing to note is that Goldfine has problems getting a good fit for\nmany women (with standard suits). Supposedly for smaller women (and\npetite men for that matter) the 1 piece will fit better. \n\nAnother recommendation is to pay for mods if you need them. I wish I\ngot 2-3 inches added to my pant legs. I find the Long suits are not\nreally that long (I can't imagine how short the standard suits must\nbe). \n", "\nAre you serious? The auto that had a lot to do with bringing the term\n\"boxer\" to the popular forefront was the Ferrari 512 Berlinetta Boxer\nor the 512BB. Had a 5 liter, opposed 12 cylinder engine.\n", "It's a toll for insurance companies and auto dealers to rip you\noff in case of accident or trade-in.\n\nCharlie Ellis\nchellis@nyx.cs.du.edu", "Hi,\n I'm now in the market for buying a BMW.The ideal would be an R80 RS but I'd be\ninterested to here of any R80 for sale .Age is not a problem - I'm more\ninterested in a good example without a massive amount of miles and one which has\nbeen well maintained as I intend to keep it well and for some time.\n\n I would also like to know if anyone has any sound advice as regards to\nINSURANCE - 27yr old,licence for 9 years,no accidents/claims/convictions.Am I old\nenough to get BMW owners club insurance yet or will I have to wait until next\nyear? \n\n\t\t\t\tIan", "Could some kind soul tell me the advance timing/revs for a 1981 xs1100 special\n(bought in Canada).", "\nAre you sure? Harley's disclaimer says, \"if you crash, we take care of\nthe bike, you take care of you.\"\n\nIf you were really responsible for the bike, did your insurance cover\nit?\n", "\nIf your primary concern is protecting the passenger in the event of a\ncrash, have him or her fitted for a helmet that is their size. If your\nprimary concern is complying with stupid helmet laws, carry a real big\nspare (you can put a big or small head in a big helmet, but not in a\nsmall one).\n", "\nYeah, make darn sure you cover all the glass, so the driver can't\nreasonably expect to be able to drive with the things on the car.\n\n", "]Is it possible to do a \"wheelie\" on a motorcycle with shaft-drive?\n\nyes.\n", " ^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^ ^^^ ^^^^^\nMe thinks thee dost protest too much.... 1/2 :-)\n\nHe made no allegations, and specifically gave the seller the benefit of the\ndoubt. He simply made the net aware of the fact that many of these seats are\nstolen, so watch out and ask questions when buying. That's good advice to\nfollow when buying _anything_ from a third party, on the net or elsewhere.\nTouchy, touchy...", ": I was posting to Alt.locksmithing about the best methods for securing \n: a motorcycle. I got several responses referring to the Cobra Lock\n: (described below). Has anyone come across a store carrying this lock\n: in the Chicago area?\n: \n: Any other feedback from someone who has used this?\n\nWhat about the new Yamaha \"Cyclelok\" ?\nFrom the photo in Motorcyclist, it looks the same hardened steel as a \nKryptonite U lock, except it folds in five places.\nIt seems to extend out far enough to lock the rear tire to the tube of\na parking sign or similar.\n\nAnyone had any experience with them, how easy is it to attack the lock\nat the jointed sections ?", "\n\n\tAnd better yet..There's a chevette in town with wire crome wheels,\nvinyl roof, tacky paint job and a continental spare (showing the wire\ncrome wheel within, of course)...I'm scared to look on the inside and have\nonly seen it rolling down the road...and I too was glad I hadn't just ate.\n\n\n\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nChris T. Ward DoD#0710 \"Don't take life too seriously, you can never come\n out of it alive.\" -?", "G'day people,\n\t\n\tAre there any MR2 owners or motor-head gurus out there, that know why\nmy MR2's engine sounds noisy? The MR2's engine is noisy at the best of times, \nbut not even a nice nose - it's one of those very ugly noises. \n\tI do an oil change every 2-3 months, and for about 2 months the engine\nnoise sounds relatively quiet during driving and idling. At around the 3 month\nmark, after an oil change (I've been tracking this very thoroughly for months\nnow) it starts to get that very disgusting noise, not so much during driving,\nbut more so during idling. \n\tWhat's its problem? \n\tAlso.. I don't know if it's just me, but if noticed a little\nperformance drop. It just hasn't got the acceleration it used to. \n\n\tAny help/tips would be appreciated!!\n", "\nPoppy cock! This story is obviously a complete fabrication, and I'll show\nyou why...\n\n ^^^^\nThis establishes that the story takes place in Iowa.\n ^^^^^^^^\nIn Iowa?!?!? Come on now Dan, how dumb do you think we are? You could\nhave at least thrown in a llama or tennis ball reference. Hell, you\ndidn't even get the speed right.\n\nDean\n\nps. :-)\n", "RIDING\"? >> \n\n\nHere in Louisiana the State Sign is \"CAUTION - SUB-STANDARD ROADWAY\".\n\n ----===== DoD #8177 = Technician(Dr. Speed) .NOT. Student =====----", "--\nMy boss is interested in a new 300 series Mercedes Benz wagon.\nDoes anyone have any testimonial evidence and/or strong opinions\non this car (or line)?\n\nParticularly, I would like to hear about power (manual t. only)\nreliability, feel, and any unusually good or bad features of the\nline.\n\nShe currently drives a VW Passat, and is being plagued by its\nelectrical problems. The dealer claims there is nothing wrong,\neven though the doors have a habit of locking and unlocking them-\nselves while you are driving down the road. The automatic shoulder\nrestraints also like to move back and forth as you move along.\nShe does not have the new, larger engine and is quite\ndissatisfied with its lack of power.\n\nThe MB wagon would have to have more power and no peculiar problems\nsuch as the Passat's electrical system. She is also considering\na Saab 9000 (add some letters). Any comparisons between the 9000\nline and the Mercedes would be helpful.\n\nPrice is not an impediment.\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\nJeremy J. Corry | Churchill claimed the traditions \njcorry@erasure_sl.cc.emory.edu | of the navy are rum, mutiny, and\n __ | sodomy.\n \\/ \n My opinions are my own, but I probably got them from someone else. ", "Alright, beat this automobile sighting.\n\nDriving along just a hair north of Atlanta, I noticed an old, run down\nformer car dealership which appeared to deal with, and repair, older\nrare or exotic foreign sports cars. I saw:\n\nFord GT-40 (!), the famous model from Ford, that seemed to win most of \nits races in the late 60s, including Le-Mans 4 or 6 times.\n\nTwo Jensen Interceptors, one a convertable, one a hatchback?\n\nPorsche 911 (boring compared to the rest)\n\nTHREE Ferarries, a Mondial, a 308 prepared for racing, and a red 60s model\nthat I couldn't identify.\n\nAnd at the bottom, a late 70s MG convertable.\n\nOutside there was a rotting Rover 3500 saloon, which was never regularly\nsold in the U.S.\n\nAnd in the showroom, there was a small italian body, either an Alpha Romeo\nor a Lancia. It was about the size of an Austin Mini.\nThe trunklid was missing, exposing a boot with a voltage regulator \nin the upper left corner of the wall, and a chunk of metal removed from\nthe floor on the right hand side as if something would leave the trunk\nand go to the outside from here.\nThe taillights looked like they\nwould be the round type (if they were there). Does anyone know what the\nmake of this one is? \n\nCertainly made my day... ", "\nI don't think this is the case, at least not on all jetskis. On my\nfriend's jetski, bars turn left to go left. Anyway, all you're doing\nthere is changing the yaw of the jets, so the relationship between\nthe handlbars and the rear-mounted jets is completely arbitrary\n(simple linkage could make it work either way).\n\n\nIt seems to me that jetskis are even more irrelevant to this discussion\nthan snow skis. But it *has* been an amusing digression.\n\nHey Ed, how do you explain the fact that you pull on a horse's reins\nleft to go left? :-) Or am I confusing two threads here?\n", "Ok, so in my ongoing search for a sport utility, here's the latest;\n\n\nToyota 4runner:\n\n\t Small. Small Small Small. The interior of this vehical is impossible\n\tfor a large person. Too bad; it would have been the winner otherwise.\n\nNissan Pathfinder:\n\t\n\tVery low ceiling. My head hit the roof, Fun on bumps, no? Also has\n\ta cheap-looking interior.\n\nIsuzu Trooper:\n\n\tClass act. This is a really, really nice vehical. Very comfortable,\n\thandled ok. Has really cool grab handles EVERYWHERE. But it's huge,\n\tand the engine is a bit too small for it's bulk; also the manual shift is \n\tweird and kind of awkward. I'd buy this if it were $3k cheaper or 10\"\n\tshorter. But at this size and for this price, no. I kept picturing trying to \n\tpark in in San Francisco. No Thanks.\n\n\nChevy Blazer:\n\n\tCheap looking. Small. Not as small as the Toyota and Nissan, but still \n\ttoo small.\n\nFord Explorer:\n\n\tThis is no sports car, and it's certainly not for the serious off roader.\n\tBut it's big enough to be comfortable without being as huge and heavy as the\n\ttrooper. It's engine has plenty of power for everyday driving, though it would\n\tbe nice if it had a *bit* more. The automatic tranny is pretty nice; head and\n\tshoulders above my '90 mazda MPV. The steering is not as tight as I'd like,\n\tbut it's acceptable. The two door has easy-to-enter back seats (Easier to get\n\tinto, in fact, than the driver's seat of the 4runner!) and with a 10\" shorter\n\twheelbase and the easier availability of a manual tranny, (Yes, I'm a manual \n\tshift biggot, I admit it...) it's the one I'm thinking of buying. \n\n\n\tSo, that said, is there anyone out there who has one of these and hates it?\n\tAnyone had any major problems? Heard any horror stories? \n\n\tAlso, any reason to buy the ford over the mazda Navajo, both being essentially\n\tthe same vehical?\n\n\n\t\t\tThanks-\n\n\n\t-Karl", "We're considering getting a Ford Explorer XLT with 4WD and we have the\nfollowing questions (All we would do is go skiing -- no off-roading):\n\n1. With 4WD, do we need the \"performance axle\" - (limited slip axle).\nIts purpose is to allow the tires to act independently when the tires\nare on different terrain. \n\n2. Do we need the all-terrain tires (P235/75X15) or will the\nall-season (P225/70X15) be good enough for us at Lake Tahoe?\n\n\nThanks,\n\n\nTom\n\n-- \n\n\n===========================================================================\n\n Tom Shou\t\t\tSilicon Graphics\n\tshou@asd.sgi.com\t\t2011 N. Shoreline Blvd. \n\t415-390-5362\t\t\tMS 8U-815 \n\t415-962-0494 (fax)\t\tMountain View, CA 94043", "There have been a *lot* of posts lately about \"I wanna buy my first bike - is a\nGSXR/ZX/CBR/FZR a good bike to learn on?\" etc.\n\nI think I'm going to put together a FAQ on buying a new bike. Ravi used to post\none all the time.", "\nthe list as chartered is geared toward R100/R80 GS/PD/ST riders,\nemphasizing the off road bikes, but there are numerous people on the\nlist with other BMW twins as well, as well as the usual contingent of\naspirants. most all boxer talk is welcome. the main list has about\n50 subscribers; there is also a digest version which has about 10. we\nrun about 10 to 12 messges to day, mostly technical with little\nchatter and no flames.\n\nsubscriptions can be had via e-mail. in the text of a message, send\nthe command:\n\nSUBSCRIBE \n\nto bmw-gs-request@halfdome.sf.ca.us for the main list and\nbmw-gs-digest-request@haldfome.sf.ca.us for the digest version. your\n\"from\" address will be used to determine where you will receive the\nmail. \n\nit would be a shame to split boxer riders between different lists\nunless, of course, the existing list failed to meet the readers'\nneeds.\n-- \n-- bob pasker\n-- rbp@netcom.com", "\t ai598@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike Sturdevant) writes...\n ^^^^\n\tHmm, sounds like a useful trick -- it'd keep the local cagers at least\na crutch-length off my tail-light, which is more than they give me now. But\ndo I have to break a leg to use it?\n\n\t(When I broke my ankle dirt-biking, I ended up strapping the crutches\nto the back of the bike & riding to the lab. It was my right ankle, but the\nbike was a GT380 and started easily by hand.)", "This whole discussion is just a religous war. I'd rather have a '93 RX-7\nthan the Mustang 5.0L for 3 times the price. That's how you explain\nPorsches selling. Some folks would rather have the Stang...\n\n\n\nSean", "My first encounter with a dog chasing after my bike was on my first poker run.\nA big german shepard ran out into the pack of bikes I was riding with and tried \nto bite the right leg of the guy riding in front of me. He kicked the dog a \ncouple of times (we were all only going about 10-15mph) and just made the dog\nangrier and got away by applying WFO and outrunning the dog who then started\nafter yours truly. At the time, I had open drag pipes (obnoxiously loud as hell)\nand as soon as the dog was about 2 feet away from the right side of my bike, I\npulled in the clutch and revved the motor up to about 5000rpm and the roar of\nthe pipes frightened the dog away (probably made the dog's ears hurt like hell)\nand he didn't come back for the rest of the bikers behind me either. \n\nMy second encounter was with an already deceased road-kill dog. I wasn't paying \nvery close attention to the pavement when the car in front of me straddled the\ncarcass. I looked down just in time to see what I was about to run over so I \njust held onto the handlebars and freaked out. Both wheels went squarely over\nthe dog's belly with a thump-thump just like running over a piece of a 4x4\nlumber. The bike didn't lose any stability at all and I kept on going. After\nI got to my destination, I found bits of fur, meat, and blood stuck to\nthe bottom of my motor and frame...... gross.", "\n\ndam9543> \tI get back drom work today, look at me bike before\ndam9543> proceding in-side. I nearly shit, my new DRY RIDER cover is\ndam9543> gone! Barely two weeks old, and already gone, GOD-AM\n\nSomebody stole my trashed old Honda red/white/blue cover off a\nKZ440LTD in residential Palo Alto a couple of weeks ago. The cover\nhad *holes* burnt in it around the exhaust, etc etc. I figured it was\njust kids, but maybe not...\n", "\n\tI'll third the recommendation as Miracle Spooge.\n\n\tDon't go to the dealer to get it or what happened to me might happen\nto you: you put a deposit on a new bike.\n\nSigh,", "Although not in direct response to the referenced article, just to set the \nrecord straight, Beamers are BMW motorcycles. BMW cars are Bimmers. Please,\nlet's get our terms straight.\n\nActually, some purists would argue that the only true Bimmer is a round\ntail light 2002 or 1600.", "\nV16 anyone? Anyone heard of a Cizata V16T ??? Its mainly sold in the middle \neast where they dont have as strict a legislation as in the USA and EC....\n", "mjs>No No No No!! All I am saying is that you don't even need to tell people\nmjs>the technique of countersteering, cos they will do it intuitively the first\nmjs>time they try to go round a corner.\n\nkarr>Are you sure? Remember that you *can* get around corners without\nkarr>countersteering. In fact, my Experienced Rider Course instructors\nkarr>claimed that they could get on behind a new rider and make the bike\nkarr>turn to whichever side they wanted just by shifting their weight\nkarr>around, even when the operator was trying to turn in the opposite\nkarr>direction. (I admit I've never actually seen this.)\n\nI've experienced this, back when I was young(er) and (more) foolish...\n\nMy first bike used to track extremely true. Going down the highway,\nI would set the throttle tension screw up enough to hold the gas\nsteady, slide back on the seat and lean against the backrest, riding\nwithout any hands. If I needed to turn, I'd shift my weight into the\nturn, and lo and behold, the bike would turn, sans touching the bars!\nGranted, it wouldn't turn very fast, but it proves that you can turn\na bike without countersteering, at least not in terms of the input\nto the bar normally associated with countersteering.\n\nAs I've said, I know many people who think all you do is lean, and any\ninput they're giving to the bar is totally unconscious. Whereas that\nmay be sufficient to get you down the road under normal circumstances,\npossibly for years at a stretch, I can't think of anybody who'd argue\nthat this is preferable to properly knowing how to manipulate the bar\nin a turn, regardless of what you want to call it.\n\nExcept maybe for Mr. Sixsmith... ;^)\n\nMr. Bill", "Hello netters!\n\nI'm visiting the US (I'm from Sweden) in August. I will probably rent a Chevy\nBeretta from Alamo. I've been quoted $225 for a week/ $54 for additional days. \nThis would include free driving distance, but not local taxes (Baltimore). \nThey also told me all insurance thats necessary is included, but I doubt that,\n 'cause a friend rented a car last year and it turned out he needed a lot more\ninsurance than what's included in the base price. But on the other hand he didn't\nrent it from Alamo.\n\nDoes anyone have some info on this?\n\nIs $225 a rip-off? \nProbability that I'll be needing more insurance?\nIs the beretta a good rental car?\n\nThanx", "Yes, it is the 23, 24 and 25, in but does anyone have directions how to\nget there after I get to Dayton. Thanks", "\nI hate to pick on someone who may have been seriously injured (let's hope\nnot), but: semi-coherent sounds like a good description of someone who\nshows up at the track w/ a VMax in the first place:-{\n\n tom coradeschi <+> tcora@pica.army.mil", "\nVW and Mercedes have tinkered with particulate traps. Also, VW\nuses a kind of turbocharger on their Jetta ECOdiesel that helps\nreduce particulates as well, although I don't know the\nmechanics of it.\n\nMany diesel cars,busses, and trucks in Europe are now being\nequipped with catalysts and traps in an effort to clean up\ndiesel emissions, already well below legal limits anyway.\n\nIt's a shame GM had to soil the diesel's reputation in\npassenger cars and prevent further resource devotion to\nresearch into making this outstandingly efficient engine even\nfurther ahead of gas engines in emissions.", "\n\n\nThis is a good idea - so you can carry your (non-alcoholic) drinks without\nspilling or having someone hold on to them.\n\n\nFax machines, yes. Cellular phones: Why not get a hands-free model?\n\n\nSeemingly unique to American luxury cars. The Big Three haven't yet realized\nthat the 1970s are over.\n\n\nI agree. Just another display of Yuppie excess.", "When riding in a group, generally speaking, do most people mind when\nanother rider tags along?\n\nI had the distinct feeling I may not have been welcome when I tagged \nalong with a group last weekend.", "\n\n ^^\n\nI think you mean late '60s. The biggest change that Porsche undertook to\nalter the tailhappieness of their baby was way back in August 1968 (for the\n'69 model year) when they stretched the wheelbase. Besides, some people\nactually _KNOW_ how to take advantage of oversteer, and enjoy it.\n\n ^^^^^\n\n ^^^^ ^^^^\n\nYou should have seen what Phil Hill (_*WORLD CHAMPION*_) had to say about\nthe Vette's he's driven. \n\n ^^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^\n\nYeah, that was what he said. :-)\n\nPaul Frere agreed. They both prefered the Porsche (modified by Ruf) to\neither of the Vette's at that test. \n\n", "\n: \tI'm looking at the following three SUV's; anyone who's driven all\n: \tthree have any strong opinions?\n:\n: \tFord Explorer\n: \tToyota 4Runner\n: \tNissan Pathfinder\n\nWell, I was just in your position and I drove all three and liked\nall three. It was a toss-up. I marginally went with the Pathfinder\nbased on reliability and looks.\n\nI don't think you can go wrong with any of them.", " Check out the shocks where they mount, at both ends. if you have\n the type that have a loop?,from lack of a better term, and a bolt like\n piece sticking through, there should be a rubber bushing between the loop\n and the bolt. Is it there ? is it crushed and allowing metal to metal\n contact? I hope you can make some sense of this. Good Luck.>\n\n\n", "I would also be interested in finding out about the '94 Talon,\nand I suspect that many other people would be interested too,\nso let's get some responses on the net.\n\nThe question again:\nDoes anyone have any info on the 1994 Eagle Talon / Mitsubishi\nEclipse / Plymouth Laser?\n\nI know that the old Talon was based on the Mitsubishi Galant,\nand that in Japan, a 240 hp twin-turbo V6 1994 Galant has been\nreleased.\n\nSo anyway, any info on the '94 Talon would be appreciated.", "\ngood point. the \"list\" actually started out as an extension of my GS\nv. FJ shootout list, which is why it got that name. since inception,\nhowever, other boxer-interested folks have joined and the conversation\nhas not always been \"geared\" to gs/pd/st-specific topics.\n\n\nwhen i raised the \"to expand or not to expand/that is the question\"\nquestion on the list itself, there were mixed feelings. the list has\nalways been open to anyone with a non-bouncing \"from:\" line and there\nhas been general agreement that only boxer-related stuff is\nappropriate. almost all of the subscribers own R80/R100 GS/ST/PD\nbikes, although some R, RT and RS owners are also on it.\n\nat this point, my main interest for the list is to preserve the peace\nand comraderie while at the same time providing as wide access as\npossible. the list is fairly technical, with \"how do i do this?\",\n\"what kind of that should i get?\" kinds of questions. there has yet\nto be any non-BMW bashing, K bike bashing, or \"any bmw mfg'd after\n1962 is a piece of shit\" bashing. such posts are, by consent of the\ngoverned, proscribed.\n\nif the simple name change would make a significant difference to the\nnet.boxer.owners, then i am not going to stand in the way of progress.\n\nso, hesh, let me turn the question around: have you (or has anyone\nelse) not joined the list because you felt your boxer was excluded?\n-- \n-- bob pasker\n-- rbp@netcom.com", "\n\nSquids are everybody but me and you. Chris Behanna is especially a squid.\n\n", "Why don't you look again at Motor Trend's, slalom times, they are 67.9, right\nalong with the Integra, and the car does that with small 14 inch tires that\nare all -weather XGTV4, not to mention that the Integra rides alot better than\na Beretta.\nYour acceleartion times also vary, magazine to magazine\nRoad & Track and Car& Driver have the GS-R at 6.8 to 8.0 for Road and Track.\nAlso Quarter mile times vary from 15.4 to 16.1\nYou can't tell exactly by the numbers. Furthermore, the Integra will\ndefinately outrun the Beretta on the high end. Car & Driver and Road & track\nhave the GS-R doing 136 to 141 mph, and it gets there fast.\n\n\n***You always believe those exact numbers, why don't you drive a GS-R, and see\nfor your self, while the GS-R has a low 117 torqye, its high gearing over a 8000\nrpm make up for the difference (still wouldn't call it a torque moster though!)\n\n\nQuad 4 reliable, yeah, what's your definition of reliable- if that's reliable,\nthen its safe to say that integra engines in general are near perfect\n (not to mention, a hell of alot smoother and quieter - balance shafts.The Acura has the engine\n wins the reliablity contest hands down. You can rev that car all day, everyday,\nand you'll never blow a hose, or crack the block, or anything else. (I speak\nfrom expierence!)\nI'm not saying the Quad 4 is a bad engine, but don't highlight reliability when you\ncomparing it to a Acura Engine. AND while the Integra costs alot more, it is a\nbetter investment since it will hold its value considerably much better. And\ndoes a nice job at being a sporty car and practical at the same time.", "\n\n\n\nYou know, I'm a Ford fan, I must say, so I'm looking forward to the next\nMustang. I have faith that it will be a fine product, more desireable\nthan the Camaro is now. You know, that's MHO. \n\nThe differences these days between Ford and GM are not so much the quality,\njust the philosophy. It used to be quality _and_ philosophy. GM is\nbarely catching up, but they have more room for improvement that\ncan only be made up in time. STSs still come off the assembly line\nwith screwed up paint stripes and poor trunk/door/hood/panel alignments;\nit's those 75 year old plants. And the latest GM products still come\nwith the standard equipment RattleDash (tm). But like I said, they're\ngetting better and making the move in the right direction.\n\nThey beat Ford to the market with the Camaro/Firebird, but really only\nin words. Production of these vehicles will be limited until the\nend of the year, keeping selling prices above MSRP for the most part\nsince there are so many twitching Camaro fans out there. I wouldn't\npress Ford to hurry the Mustang since the final wait could be worth it.\nBesides, no bow-tie fanatic is gonna buy the Mustang anyway.\n\nI do not put much stock in the mag rags' \"inside\" information, or even\nFord rep quotes. The Taurus was pretty much a surprise when it was\nfinally disclosed in it's entirety. \"Inside\" information had the\nTaurus with a V8 and rear-wheel drive at one point. I wouldn't look\nfor a simple re-paneled Mustang, folks; you may be cheating yourself\nif you do. There's a lot of potential. Ford hasn't released a new\ncar without a 4-wheel IS in 7 years. The Mustang project has been\nbrewing for at least 4, right? A 4-wheel IS could happen. Those\nmodular V8's are out there, too. In the interest of CAFE and\ncompetition, don't rule those out, either. Your ignorant if you do.\nAnd there are so many spy shots and artist renderings out there,\nwho really knows what it'll look like? The Mach III? Doubt it.\nHighly.\n\nThe next Mustang will be Ford's highest profile car. It attracts\nway more attention than the Camaro/Firebird because it's heritage\nis more embedded in the general public. Don't lie to yourself and\nbelieve Ford will forfeit that.\n\nI submit that the Mustang will be a success. Enough to elicit\ndefensive remarks from some heavy Camaro fans here. You know,\nintelligent, critical spews like, \"The Mustang bites, man!\" Some of\nyou are already beginning. I predict that the Mustang and Camaro\nwill be comparable performers, as usual. I predict that the\ndifferences will be in subjective areas like looks and feel, as usual.\nThe Camaro is still a huge automobile; the Mustang will retain its\ncab-rearward styling and short, pony-car wheelbase. The Camaro still\nreaches out to the fighter pilot, while the Mustang will appeal to\nthe driver. The Camaro will still sell to the muscle car set, while\nthe Mustang will continue to sell to the college-degreed muscle car set.\nBoth will be more refined (I do think the Camaro is). There will be\nno clear winner.\n\nUnless the Ford gets the 32v, 300hp Romeo. You don't seriously believe\nthat it was designed for the Mark VIII only, do you?\n\n:^)\n\nRegards,\n\nBrian\n\nbqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\nI am the engineer, I can choose K.", "& \n& If this is the same as adjusting the shims between cam and valve, I have\n& the same question. Do you buy a FULL set of shims before starting the\n& adjustment process, or do you calculate the shims you need and then run\n& off to the dealer in the cage to see if the right shims are in stock? \n& Obviously the latter would be cheaper (what do shims cost?), but are\n& measurements of the shim need reliable enough to buy only the indicated shims?\n\nOnly buy what you need. It would cost a lot to buy a full set, and\nyou won't ever use most of them. I have had good luck with the\ncalculation method. I have never had to change more than one size\nincrement at a time (I never needed a change larger than the next\nsize up/down, usually down). They cost a few $ each for a Yamaha.\n", "\nYou can learn how to build a deyhdrator very easily from the book, \"The\nHungry Hiker's Guide to Good Food,\" by Gretchen McHugh. The heat source\nis a 100 watt light bulb. Basically, it's a vertical wooden box with\nventilation holes in the top and bottom (lots of them, you want the air\nto flow). The light bulb goes in the bottom, and wire cake racks are\nspaced every 6\" starting about 10\" above the bulb.\n\nOr, at a slightly higher cost in electricity, you can do what I do: Use\nyour oven. (NOTE - I do this in an electric oven; some gas ovens may\nnot have a low enough setting). Put food to be dried on cookie tins or\nracks in the oven. Set oven to 140 degrees (the lowest setting on my\noven - if yours goes down to 120 that's probably even better.) Stick a\nwooden spoon or something across the front corner of the oven and close\nthe door on the spoon so that it stays open about an inch - this allows\nfor airflow. Leave the stuff in the oven for 6 to 8 hours; check it\noften, since this dries it much faster than the dehydrator. If you are\nusing cookie sheets instead of racks, turn the stuff over halfway\nthrough.\n\nIf you want more info, e-mail me since this isn't really the right sub\nfor this stuff.\n\ngerald.belton@ozonehole.com\n\n\n * SLMR 2.1 * I still miss my boss, but my aim is improving.\n ", "\nSeconded. I cycle to work each day, and if we could just get\nthose damned cars and their cretinous drivers off the road, it\nwould be a lot more fun.", "\nwho cares about typos of these meaningless, synthetic names? if the\ncars were named after a person, e.g. honda, i'd be more respectful.\n\n\nwrong! the GS300 and SC300 use straight sixes, while the ES300 uses a\nV6. only a giant like toyota can afford to have both a V6 and inline\n6 in its lineup, but that won't last for long.\n", "It's a shame there's no law against Driving While Stupid. After a little\nwhile it would prevent all kinds of accidents.\n\nDean", "\nBut you already can go at the speed limit at 4000 rpm. All you need\nto do is to find a road with a 35 mph speed limit.\n\nThis isn't quite as silly as it sounds. If you take a nice day trip\nover back roads (*not* highways full of people trying seriously to get\nfrom here to there) then you might be able to hold 35 mph comfortably.\nYou could easily do 500 miles over three different weekends. You\nmight even get to enjoy some of the scenery. Yes, I know this is\nprobably not why you bought a 250 called \"Ninja.\"", "\nIn many of our cities, there are traffic signals every 100 feet (unsynchronised,\nof course (well here in Ottawa anyway)) and the roads are so congested that \nshifting manually is a real pain in the left foot. Also, most Canadians are\ntoo stupid to learn how to shift manually (gee, I gotta co-ordinate my two\nfeet on the clutch, brake _and_ accelerator, and I gotta steer, shift _and_\noperate the signals (optional) and radio with my two hands... duh... it \ncan't be done). Also, most North American made cars come with the automatic \nas standard equipment, so why bother with a manual when the car can shift \nfor you for no addition money.\n\n", "[sorry, had to take out tx.motorcycles because\nmy news server rejected it. -- hesh]\n\n: it would be a shame to split boxer riders between different lists\n: unless, of course, the existing list failed to meet the readers'\n: needs.\n\nyou presumed you needed to \"split\" out a GS list.\nby implication of your \"split\", a plain ol' bmw\nlist wouldn't meet the GS riders' needs.\n\nfor the sake of not forcing the split issue,\nhow about changing the charter and renaming\nyour list from bmw-gs to just bmw? would that\nmake everybody happy?\n\ni think you'd get better participation this way.\nand joe wouldn't have to burden his 286. :-)", "\n\tInteresting. All I can say is that I haven't seen any wear in the\n1000 miles I've used the stuff on the Ninja, and the bike stays soooo clean.\n\n\tI'll check back again in a few thousand more miles.\n\n\tWhile we're on the subject, whereinthehell can I find a 532x110\nendless chain, other than the dealer (no, rivet-type master links are not\nacceptable)?\n\nLater,", "Southern California RideList -- 4/14/93\n\n Please send me any updates to this ride list. Remember, only street\nrides that are open to all bikers are posted. Please inc. phone # for\nfurther info. Also, send me your e-mail address if you want mailed\ncopies of this list.\n I suggest calling first to make sure that info is current. If you\nfind out further info, please let me know. I strive for accuracy but\ncannot be responsible for errors.\n e-mail address: paulb@harley.tti.com \t\n---------\nc&d = coffee & donuts; Mx = Live Music; f&d = food & drinks available;\n* = changes since last posting; ** Address at end of posting", "\nThe 1941 Lincoln Continental was the first car to sport the \"continental\nkit.\" The continental kit is not to be confused with ye olde outside\nmounting bracket; a continental kit is a very specific ornament/storage\ncompartment. (The 1941 Continental has a neat trunk; it looks rather\nlike a laundry hamper, IMHO. :-)\n\n\t\t\t\tJames", "\nOK, as one last attempt, I'll take a different tack.\n\nWe all seem to be in agreement that there are two explanations for why\none can use the handlebars to lean a moving motorcycle. The question is,\nis one of the effect dominant, and which one is it? The idea would be to\ndesign an experiment which would seaprate the two characteristics, and\nsee which effect produces a similar result to the one with which those of\nus who have bikes are familiar.\n\nLet's look at the one that, so far, has sparked no controversy on its\nown, gyroscopic precession. To examine this alone, we would have to\nget rid of the contact patch effect, by not allowing the contact patches\nto transmit any force. The wheels and steering mechanism would have to\nremain, and be attached to a vehicle with about the same weight as a bike,\nthrough suspension (so that the wheels transmit forces to the bike the\nsame way) similar to a bikes. An experiment would be to ride a bike along \na dry road to get moving and to get the wheels spinning, then change \nsurfaces to something that won't transmit forces through the contact \npatches, and try a steering manoeuvre to see if the bike leans. It \nprobably would, since some of us know how easy it is to fall down on ice, \nbut we wouldn't get a good idea of how well or what it feels like \nbecause, without the contact patches, we can't turn. Maybe there's a \nbetter way. Besides, even ice doesn't get rid of the contact patch\nforces altogether, so we'd have to find a really frictionless surface.\nYou'd have to try it again with the wheels locked to really know if it\nwas the rotation that did it.\n\nLooking at the contact-patch effect only, however, is fairly simple.\nNow we have to find a vehicle that gets the about the same magnitude and\ndirection of cantact patch forces as a motorcycle, and transmits them\nabout the same way to the vehicle, but without rotating wheels.\nHow it gets the contact patch forces is irrelevant, we're just looking\nfor something that has contact patches that can go straight and not\nsideways, and skis or skates would do fine. I don't know of any snow-ski\nor skate bikes, but up here we have the Suzuki Wetbike that is arranged\nlike a motorcycle but has fat water skis where there should be wheels.\nI think the propellor is in front of the rear ski, or something like\nthat, but we could try it at a coast to get rid of most of its effect.\nNow I admit that this is second hand info (although I'd love to try\none of these), but the review in the local cycle rag and a guy in\na bike shop that sells them both say that this machine handles very\nmuch like a motorcycle, in that you countersteer it to turn.\nSo we have contact patches that transmit similar forces to a bike's,\na similar suspension arrangement, and no gyroscopes, but we do have\ncountersteering.\n\nConclusion: you don't need gyroscopes to countersteer vehicles that have\nmotorcycle-like contact patch arrangements. We still don't know what\nreal effect the gyroscopes have when they're there, but from my observations\nof how handlebar angle, force, etc. relate to steering in general, I'm \nwilling to bet that they're not the dominant factor in countersteering. \n\nIf you don't like this conclusion, then don't accept it, but my motorcycle's\nbehaviour is consistent with it. If someone can prove otherwise, go ahead.", "\n\n Stay away from GEICO.\n\n A recent CAR & DRIVER issue has an article about GEICO giving free\n laser guns to police departments to increase they're speed limit\n enforcement. The article also said that if you get a speeding ticket\n your premium will increase dramatically based on how much \"over the\n limit\" you were. If I remember correctly, at \"more than 20 over\",\n you'll get something like a 65% increase. \n\n If you have a radar detector, you will be denied coverage or dropped\n immediately. \n\n One accident claim and you will be dropped.\n After many years with GEICO, my father who had 0 tickets and had made\n 0 claims, had an accident and filed an $800 claim. He was dropped \n immediately. Since then he has been with State Farm for years with\n no complaints.\n\n I have been with State Farm for about 20 years - no complaints.\n", "\n\nwhat does that make me for showing up with an old interceptor with worse\nbrakes and handling (due to bent frame) than a VMAX? and i didn't even...\nuh.... well, i was more than semi-coherent when the ambulance.... uh....\n\nnevermind.\n\n\naxel\n", "\n\nI once had a sparking problem with my '65 Mustang, and simply changing\nthe spark plug wires fixed it.", "(note: this is not about the L.A. or NY Times)\n\nA few times a year, a funny thing happens: the bike engine runs\nperfectly. Completely smooth. Not that it runs poorly normally, but\non these days, it is exceptional. My theory is that the air density\nand moisture content of the air are such that I get complete\ncombustion. Needless to say, it puts me in a great mood.\n\nThe mood lasted for about 20 miles. Heading north on the 405\nfreeway, about a mile or two south of the 10, my throttle stopped\nresponding.... and I was between lanes. Nothing to do but make \nmy way over 4 lanes to the shoulder... initially by gliding, then\nby pushing. At least traffic was heavy enough so that cars did\nnot mind stopping for me.\n\nTurned out to be a screw unscrewed inside my Mikuni HS40 \ncarb. I keep hearing that one should keep all of the screws\ntight on a bike, but I never thought that I had to do that\non the screws inside of a carb. At least it was roadside\nfixable and I was on my way in hardly any time.\n____________________________________________________________________________\n Death is life's way of telling you you've been fired -- R. Geis", "Consumer Reports once wrote about the S-10 Blazer that it \"shook and rattled\nlike a tired taxi cab\". There is one noise that is expecially irritating -\nthe back window squeaks. I believe its because the whole tailgate assembly\nand window are not solid. Anyway, has anyone had the same problem, and have\nyou found any fixes?", "if you want to annoy geico, call them up...give fake name...but real car \nspecs..get a quote and then tell them they are more expensive than your \ncurrent state farm/allstate insurance. they will still send you quote etc.\nthen you can tear up their quote and stuff it in the prepaid return \nenvelope and mail it back to them. actually they were $12 more than my current\nstate farm rates.\n", "\nSo what do we have now, an integral over pain X time?\n\nI get to lash you with a wet noodle for ever, but I only get to\ncut you up with a power saw if I'm quick about it?", "\nI can vouch for this method in my 1990 SHO. This is the only sure way of \nputting in the reverse without any problem _every_ time.", "rites:\n,\nn\n\nBut drive UP to Cleveland and it is about 10,000 times better. I from Toledo \noriginally (but that place always as sucked as long as I've been on the planet.\n\n\nRepublicans have been trying to pass a balanced budget amendment for the last \nten years.\n\n\nBecause for a while, the American companies couln't even compete in THEIR OWN \nCOUNTRY, where free trade isn't even an issue. However, even the automobile\npendelum has swung back to the Big 3.\n\n\nOh, I don't know. It's probably in the tens of thousands.", "I have used a product called \"Goof-off\" it comes in a little yellow \ncan (about the size of a deck of playing cards).\n\nIt has worked well for removing all kinds of sticker and tape residues.\n\nNOTE: always test a small area in an inconspicuous place before using. \n\nGood luck,\n\n", "Joni Ciarletta writes\n\nYou are not alone. My '79 Honda Accord with 110,000 miles on it started \nshowing the same behavior.\n\nI replaced the brake master cylinder myself. It took about an hour and cost \nabout $45. Sure beats paying $300 to have someone else do it! If I wanted to \nrebuild my own master cylinder instead of putting in a rebuilt one, it would \nhave cost only $20 to $30 for the rebuild kit.\n\nThe Honda brake master cylinder is easy to get to. Two bolts attach it to the \nengine compartment. Two brake lines enter the master cylinder. The tricky \npart was that the brake lines were stuck tight. My Craftsmen open end wrench \nrounded off the bolt heads! I had to use Vise Grips to loosen those suckers. \nWow! Best invention since sliced bread. After that it was very easy. Bolt \nthe new part in place, add new brake fluid, and bleed the brakes.", "\n\nI am in hte market for a new bike (been without for a few years).\nThe two main bikes I'm looking at seriously are\nThe Yamaha Virago 535 and the Honda Shadow VLX 583. \nI am leaning towards the Yamaha for its shaft drive, the Honda is Chain.\nInsurance in Fla. is more costly than I thought, so I am staying in this\npower range. Thanks in advance for any opinions and or experiences\n", "I've never ridden pillion very much but recently had an excellent \nexperience passengering with Dave Edmondson at pilot while in London. \n\nI found that it upset the bike much less if I rode with the pilot, that\nis, if I looked over his shoulder and anticipated when I should hold on\nhard for braking or acceleration. I tried to always look over the\ninside shoulder on corners and move as little as possible, leaving\nDave to manage me and the bike as he normally would the bike and \nluggage.\n\nHard acceleration can be quite unnerving as the feeling of being spit \noff the back is hard to fight. Similarly, I held on to the grab handles\ntightly when Dave needed to brake so as not to mash him to a pulp (I'm\na lot bigger than he is...). Reaching around him and pushing off the \ntank seemed like it would be very awkward and make it even harder for \nhim to manage.\n\nOn the rare occasions when I carry a passenger myself, I absolutely\nrefuse to carry anyone who is not properly accoutered for riding. That's\nhelmet, jacket, gloves, stout pants and shoes/boots as a minimum. It's \nnot my responsibility to provide this gear, but it's my responsibility\nto require it if they want to ride.\n\nAnd I agree with an earlier poster: if you've not had much experience\ncarrying a particular passenger and especially if you've not carried\nmany passengers before, take a few gentler rides of some duration before\nyou head off to a difficult road like Mines/Mt. Hamilton. That's a \nnasty place to find yourself in trouble.", "\n\nNo, it's not possible to countersteer either.\n\n(for the humor impared :{P PPhhhhhtttttt!)", "\n\nI just saw a picture of the '94 Mustang in Popular Mechanics - what \na disappointment after being bombarded with pictures of the Mach III...", "\nKNX AM, 1070 in LA, will be unhappy to hear about this, I'm sure. :-) \n\n(isn't KNBR in the bay area?)", "After a tip from Gary Crum (crum@fcom.cc.utah.edu) I got on the Phone\nwith \"Pontiac Systems\" or \"Pontaic Customer Service\" or whatever, and\ninquired about a rumoured Production Hold on the Formula Firebird and\nTrans Am. BTW, Talking with the dealer I bought the car from got me\nnowhere. After being routed to a \"Firebird Specialist\", I was able\nto confirm that this is in fact the case.\n\nAt first, there was some problem with the 3:23 performance axle ratio.\nShe wouldn't go into any details, so I don't know if there were some\nshipped that had problems, or if production was held up because they\nsimply didn't have the proper parts from the supplier. As I say, she\nwas pretty vague on that, so if anyone else knows anything about this,\nfeel free to respond. Supposedly, this problem is now solved.\n\nSecond, there is a definate shortage of parts that is somehow related\nto the six-speed Manual transmission. So as of this posting, there is\na production hold on these cars. She claimed part of the delay was\nnot wanting to use inferior quality parts for the car, and therefore\nhaving to wait for the right high quality parts... I'm not positive\nthat this applies to the Camaro as well, but I'm guessing it would.\n\nCan anyone else shed some light on this?\n\nChris S.\n-- \n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nChris Silvester | \"Any man capable of getting himself elected President\nchriss@sam.amgen.com | should by no means be allowed to do the job\"\nchriss@netcom.com | - Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy", "Hello,\n \nI have a 92 Toyota 4X4 and in the last few weeks I have been getting quite\na few \"dings\" :( in the paint on the hood from rocks and debris off of the\nroad. I have never had any major problems with other car/trucks in the past\n(maybe a ding once in a while). I went to the dealer and he said that it\nhappens all of the time and he recomended putting a bug deflector on the\nhood. He said that the trucks, for some unknown reason, seem to have this\nproblem more than some cars.? \n\nIt seems to me that either my luck is really bad or there might be a problem\nwith the paint (painted on a monday morning perhaps?). \n \nHow well do these bug deflectors work for small road debris on trucks? \n \nIf anyone has any experiences/suggestions please let me know, thanks.\n \n--Greg ", "PENINSULA CRUISERS THIRD ANNUAL AUTOFAIRE\n\nWHAT: CAR SHOW (FOR ANY AND ALL TYPES OF VEHICLES INCLUDING PEDAL CARS)\nWHERE: KENAI MALL, KENAI, ALASKA\nWHEN: MAY 14, 15, & 16, 1993\nWHO: PENINSULA CRUISERS CAR CLUB, KENAI, AK (907-283-4979)\nWHY: PROCEEDS OF THIS EVENT TO BENEFIT THE COOPER LANDING AMBULANCE CORPS.\n\nGENERAL: THIS CAR SHOW IS OPEN TO ALL TYPES OF CARS, TRUCKS, MOTORCYCLES, \n FACTORY AND MODIFIED, MILD TO WILD, ANTIQUE, SPECIAL INTERESTS, \n RACE, DRAG, MUDDERS, HI-PO, OR JUST PLAIN UGLY :)\n\nTHIS IS A FUN EVENT, INTENDED FOR THE OCCASSIONAL GEAR-HEAD TO THE MOST\nSERIOUS GEAR-SLAMMER. WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE AS MANY ENTRANTS AS POSSIBLE, \nBUT PLEASE CONTACT US FOR SPACE AVAILABILITY ( FIRST COME FIRST SERVE)\n\nP.S. ALL OUT OF TOWN ENTRANTS CAN STAY RIGHT NEXT DOOR AT THE \n KENAI MERRIT INN FOR A SPECIAL RATE OF $60 A NIGHT \n (SINGLE OR DOUBLE OCCUPANCY) CALL THE MERIT @\n 907-283-6131\n\nIF YOU'D LIKE ANY FURTHER INFORMATION, YOU CAN CONTACT ME AT THE \nADDRESSES BELOW. ", "Bzzzt. The 750SS is 40 pounds lighter than the 900SS. I personally,\nand recently, witnessed my 750SS do a stoppie with a larger-than-\naverage rider aboard. He said it took two fingers on that measely\nsingle front disk to accomplish the task. How much more brake do\nyou need?\n\nI haven't gone over 4000 rpm yet (still in break in) and haven't\nhad a problem with the 750SS being too slow. The limited steering\nlock can be a problem if you aren't prepared for it. The mirrors\nare very good, IMHO. Someone forgot to tell their designer about\nthe \"whazza behind you, she no matta\" philosophy.\n\nHmmmm. I don't see a 400, 750 _or_ 900SS in your .sig. Did I miss\nsomething?\n\nBeth", "1992 Saturn SL2 \n\n5spd 23K miles\n\nAC, cruise, ABS, Air Bag, Cassette, Anti Theft\n\nExcellent\n\n12,000/obo\n\nConsider 85-88 4dr 5spd compact as part trade", "\nLook for a happier-looking KZ440?\n\nSuzuki used to have an L designation, for example my former boss had a\nGS850L which had a seat a couple inches lower than the \"regular\"\nGS850, but it was certainly no cruiser.", "\nThey don't. It's a closed access road, you pay to get in (if you don't\nhave a resident sticker), and they simply don't open the gates if\nyou're on a bike.\n", "\n\nA list of options that would be useful. They can be existing\noptions on a car, or things you'd like to have...\n\n1) Tripmeter, great little gadget. Lets you keep rough track of>\n mileage, makes a good second guesser for your gas gauge...\n\n2) Full size spare\n\n3) Built in mountings and power systems for radar detectors.\n\n4) a fitting that allows you to generate household current with\nthe engine running, and plug ins in the trunk, engine compartment\nand cabin.\n\nFeel free to add on...\n\n5) Power windows", "\nassuming yours is a non turbo MR2, the gruffness is characteristic of\na large inline 4 that doesn't have balance shafts. i guess toyota\ndidn't care about \"little\" details like that when they can brag about\nthe mid engine configuration and the flashy styling.\n\nmyself, i automatically cross out any car from consideration (or\nrecommendation) which has an inline 4 larger than 2 liters and no\nbalance shafts.. it is a good rule of thumb to keep in mind if you\never want a halfway decent engine. \n\nif the noise really bugs you, there is nothing else that you can do\nexcept to sell it and get a V6.\n", " >Loud pipes are a biligerent exercise in ego projection,\n\nNo arguements following, just the facts.\n\nI was able to avoid an accident by revving my engine and having my\n*stock* Harley pipes make enough noise to draw someones attention.\n\nI instinctively revved my engine before I went for my horn. Don't know\nwhy, but I did it and it worked. Thats rather important.\n\nI am not saying \"the louder the pipes the better\". My Harley is loud\nand it gets me noticed on the road for that reason. I personally do\nnot feel it is to loud. If you do, well thats to bad; welcome to \nAmerica - \"Home of the Free, Land of the Atlanta Braves\".\n\nIf you really want a fine tuned machine like our federal government\nto get involved and pass Db restrictions; it should be generous\nenough so that a move like revving your engine will get you noticed.\nSure there are horns but my hand is already on the throttle. Should we\nget into how many feet a bike going 55mph goes in .30 seconds; or\nhow long it would take me to push my horn button??\n\nAnd aren't you the guy that doesn't even have a bike???", "\nV4s? I don't know of any. I4s and flat4s are abundant.\n\n\nA whole $h!tload. Minivans, pickups, just about any car above the\nsubcompact/compact range and below the full-size range (with a few\nexceptions).\n\nI6s are much more rare now; the only one I personally know of that's\nstill in production is the venerable Ford 300CID in the F-series pickups.\nI think that Jeep's big 6's are also straight sixes, but I'm not a\nbig Jeep person.\n\n\nWhere are you to not know of V8s? There are Mustangs, Cadillacs,\nLincolns, Camaros, Corvettes, Thunderbirds, all real full-size\npickups, Crown Vics, Chevy Moby^H^H^H^HCaprice ;-), and even a few\nJapanese and European vee-hickles with V8s.\n\nV10 - Dodge Viper; Dodge promises a truck with a V10.\n\n\nDon't Ferarri and Lamborghini both use V-12s extensively?\n\n\t\t\t\tJames", "My insurance company encourages annual physicals, and at my age [42] i'm\nthinking that BIannual physicals, at least, might be a good idea. Therefore,\ni'm shopping for a GP. Might as well get a good one.\n\nCould the Assembled Net Wisdom suggest things i should look for, or point me to\nthe FAQ archive if on this topic if there is one? \n\nPlease EMail; i suspect that this topic is real Net Clutter bait.", "Personally, I follow the no alcohol rule when I'm on a bike. My view is that you have to be in such a high degree of control that any alcohol could be potentially hazardous to my bike! If I get hurt it's my own fault, but I don't want to wreck my Katana. I developed this philosophy from an impromptu *experiment*. I had one beer at 6:00 in the evening and had volleyball practice at 7:00. I wasn't even close to leagle intoxication, but I couldn't perform even the most basic things until 8:30! This made\n\n\n\n me think about how I viewed alcohol and intoxication. You may seem fine, but your reactions may be affected such that you'll be unable to recover from hitting a rock or even just a gust of wind. I greatly enjoy social drinking but, for me, it just doesn't mix with riding.", " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nThis doesn't melt plastic, at least it hasn't melted the plastic \nbottle that I bought it in yet. Maybe I'd better go check that\nbottle, its been sittin' awhile -:)\n", "Please do not reply to this account - posting for a friend:\n\nGT-BMX bike, chrome frame, blue, alloy parts, z-rims, mint condition\nasking $300 obo.\n\nApple IIe 64k, floppy drive, monitor, Okidata Microline 92 printer, modem,\nand 30 disks of stuff. Asking $400 obo.", "\nMike Terry asks:\n\nNo Mike. It is imposible due to the shaft effect. The centripital effects\nof the rotating shaft counteract any tendency for the front wheel to lift\noff the ground.", "\n\tSeveral chemists already have come up with several substitutes for\nR12. You don't hear about them because the Mobile Air Conditioning Society\n(MACS), that is, the people who stand to rake in that $300 to $1000 per\nretrofit per automobile, have mounted an organized campaign to squash those\nR12 substitutes out of existence if not ban them altogether (on very shaky\ntechnical grounds, at best, on outright lies at worst).\n\n\tDoes this piss you off? Yes? Write a letter to your congressman, to\nyour senator, to the president, to the EPA, and to the DOT and complain.\n\nLater,", "azw>Weight and size over rough roads is a definite no-no. If is starts to\nazw>drift, you aint going to catch it.\n\nmrb>If you're riding hard enough for this to be of concern, then yes, a\nmrb>lighter bike is more beneficial.\n\nms>If you're not riding hard enough for this to be a concern, are you\nms>having any fun?\n\nSure. I've never been much of a racerboy, as anybody who's attended the\nMinibike Spectacular can attest. ;^) I get a great deal of satisfaction\nin riding fast, yet now so fast as to be overly concerned about not being\nable to maintain a clean line. And while I'm still known to slide the\noccasional tire, I much prefer to stay just to the sticky side of that\nline. I've found that I don't heal as well as I used to in days of yore.\n\nBTW, how's the knee?\n\nmrb>anyway. Am I more likely to catch a 400 than a 250? Not necessarily.\nmrb>Tires, road surface and rider ability are a much more important criteria.\n\nms>Actually, big horsepower is just as likely to get you out of trouble\nms>when it \"Starts to Drift\" as your puny body mass pushing on stuff. A well\nms>placed push from 80 or 90 horsepower can do a lot to straighten or change\nms>in a beneficial way the trajectory of the bike/rider system. That's a \n\nQuite true. Another plus for a 500+ bike, the original thread, I think.\nDamn circular threads... ;^)\n\nms>Go fast. Take chances.\nms>\nms>\tMike S.\n\nMr. Bill", "\n-> I saw an interesting product in NY Auto Show, and would like to hear\n-> your comments.\n->\n-> MILITECH(tm) is yet another oil additive. But the demonstration of\n-> this product really impressive, if it didn't cheat.\n\n Well, I heard that Militech stuff works pretty good too.. One of my\nfriends who races in SCCA sanctioned events and all that stuff got the\nMilitech stuff early as a trial thing, and he put it in his CRX.. He\nsays it worked great, but I didn't ask him for any details.\n\n\n-Erich\nerich.lim@yob.sccsi.com\n ", "*******************************************************\n 1969 karmann ghia\n*******************************************************\n\nThis car is in excellent running condition:\n *********\n *49,000 mi on new engine\n *new tires (Aug 92)\n *new clutch (91)\n *new carb (91)\n *original radio (am/fm)\n *upholstery in great shape\n *burgundy exterior/ black interior\n\nThis car has been well-maintained with regular tune-ups.\nUnfortunately, the car's previous owner had a minor\nfront-end collision. The right front nose is dented\nand patched up with bondo. I have the hard-to-find part\nneeded to repair this damage. Besides that damage, the car\nis in excellent condition. $1600/bo", "Has anyone noticed that all this happened since Chris Perez was gifted\nwith a membership?\n\nAnyone for rec.motorcycles.beemer.club.whiner? I know this might get\nconfused with K-whiners, but maybe there's a connection?", "\nThe speed limit on commuter tracks in the northeast is 120MPH. We\nalready have something that resembles high speed rail in this\ncountry and it requires massive government subsidies. We don't need\nanother government boondoggle.", "Mail bounced, so...\n\n\nTraditional wisdom says you are almost certainly better off selling it \nyourself if you don't mind that extra hassle. Having a trade-in on a purchase\njust makes getting the best price from a dealership more confusing.\n\n\nI assume this is _retail_ bluebook. There are two bluebook prices, one for\nretail and one for wholesale. You really want the retail price if you can \nget it. The blue books also have adjustments you can make for low mileage\nand extras on your particular car. You should look all this stuff up yourself.\nAlso keep in mind that the blue book prices are averages over the country\nthat may not apply in your area. For example, blue book prices are low for\nCalifornia. A better way of finding out how much your car might be worth is\nto call around and see what it's selling for (if any used lots have one) or\nlooking in local papers for similar cars and checking out the prices. It \nmight be more time efficient to take a small loss (rather than hold out for\n6 months for the best price).\n\n\nI don't know what you mean by \"an acquaintance\" but I would make darn sure\nthat I was paid, that is, cashier's check in full before delivery. There's\na real temptation when selling to a pseudo-friend to be more accomodating\nthan you should. Make sure you get the money and if they hedge about paying\nin full at the start (with a cashier's check or cash) then I would go\nelsewhere. Rememeber that you can probably sell your car to a used car lot\nor wholesaler and get wholesale bluebook. That's probably a safer approach\nthan selling to a private party.\n-- ", "\nDoesn't sound like they attended, though, does it? In fact, if we riders\nneed friends, it sounds a lot like we might have a whole townfull from \nLynn's description, especially if the same crowd gets invited back\nto party some more year after year.\n\n\nYou seem to be one of very few bent out of shape over these \"lesser\nindiscretions\". If the towns-people aren't ruffled by the\n\"indiscretions\" and the partyers aren't either, maybe the \"indiscretions\"\ndon't amount to anything more threatening or damaging than harmless \ngood-natured rowdiness among consenting adults. The only thing that \nreally bothered me about the description was the knee-deep empty beer cans \nin the street, but maybe the town had a plan to deal with that since they \nhelped set up the party in the first place. If I lived there and the\nbikers' previous visits had established a record of mutual cooperation\nand good intentions, I'd certainly rather they stick around and party\nthan go riding off into the night impaired and maybe get hurt or killed.\n\n\nIf it doesn't hurt anyone, and all the parties to the party benefit\nand consider the entire activity to be benign and harmless, then who \nneeds to \"permit\" or \"justify\" it? You? Why do *you* need to do that?\n\n\nIronically, these particular townsfolk probably are in the minority that\ndon't happen to fit the stereotype you describe. They've developed a\nfriendly long-term mutually-beneficial relationship with a group of \nmotorcyclists, and aren't as burdened with MC-ignorance as is the general\npopulation because of it.\n\n\nIf such a need exists, it surely must come from within.\n\n\nWell, you got the \"self-righteous wusses\" part right, anyway.\n\nChuck Rogers\ncar377@torreys.att.com", "\nThat's a twin-cam, right? There's a steel guard right next to\nthe sprocket to keep a broken chain from punching a hole in the\nengine cases, and it's needed. There's probably not enough room\nto fit a bigger sprocket.\n\nI'd be inclined to take two teeth off the rear for a 5% ratio\nchange rather than adding one to the front for about 7%. If you\nraise the overall gear ratio too much you'll impair the bike's\nrideability, because the gears will be far enough apart that\nthere will be only one gear that provides adequate response at\nany given speed. Honda 750s don't have the widest of power\nbands.\n--", "Re: Waving...\n\nI must say, that the courtesy of a nod or a wave as I meet other bikers while\nriding does a lot of good things to my mood... While riding is a lot of fun by\nitself, there's something really special about having someone say to you \"Hey,\nit's a great day for a ride... Isn't it wonderful that we can spend some time\non the road on days like this...\" with a gesture.\n\nWas sunny today for the first time in a week, took my bike out for a spin down\nto the local salvage yard/bike shop... ran into about 20 other people who were\ndown there for similar reasons (there's this GREAT stretch of road on the way\ndown there... no side streets, lotsa leaning bends... ;) ... Went on an\nimpromptu coffee and bullshit run down to puyallup with a batch of people who \nI didn't know, but who were my kinda people nonetheless.\n\nAs a fellow commented to me while I was admiring his bike... \"Hey, it's not\nwhat you ride, it's that you ride... As long as it has 2 wheels and an engine\nit's the same thing...\"\n-- ", "It did it again. This morning, my 88 Ford Ranger was idling at 10,000 RPM.\nOk, so I exaggerated a little, but it was idling very fast. It has a 2\nliter carburated engine in it, and no blipping of the throttle would\ncause the idle to drop back to normal (I don't think the linkage is stuck).\nWhat can I do to fix this problem? This has been a problem from time to\ntime, but has straightened itself out - until now. I don't have a tach,\nbut by gauging by the sound of the engine, it is idling about twice as fast\nas it should be. This is down from what it was idling at when I pulled up\nat a stop light.\n\nMany thanks for any suggestions.\n\n - les\n", "Probably the most famous V16 is the one Cadillac made from about 1925 \nto 1935. They had to scale down then because the Great Depression really put \nthe crimp on luxury cars. It had 452 cubic inches with over two hundred horse \npower. \"They don't make them like they used to.\" \n\tThere were others though. Packard had one until about 1930 whe it down \nsized to their legendary Twin-Six, their mainstay for the next twenty years. \nLincoln and Pierce Arrow might have also had one but I am not two sure.\n\tMost luxury and semi-luxury cars of this era at least experimented with \nV16 if they did not actually produce them. There was actually a \"cylinder war\" \namong the Big Three to see who could produce the biggest engine.\n\nBig M", "The idea here is to list pointless options. You know, stuff you\nget on a car that has no earthly use?\n\n\n1) Power windows\n\n\n\nAdd as you wish...\n\nRegards, Charles", "\nOn the subject of the upcoming new Mustang:\n\n\n\nThe car magazines have printed a lot of information about the new Mustang\nand the consensus about what to believe in my \"car circle\" is that the \nsuspension pieces and tuning will be almost identical to the current\nCobra, but on a stiffer body structure which will improve its behavior.\nAfter the MN12 (Thunderbird) cost and weight debacle, Ford decided \nindependent rear suspension with rear wheel drive won't be tried again in \na volume car. \n\nThe current 4.9l V-8 will soldier on for about two years. A version of\nthe 32 valve modular V-8 in the Mark VIII could be offered then. Ford\nis spending big money tooling up for 2.5l and 3.5l V-6 engines which will\npower most of their cars in the immediate future, and therefore probably\ndo not consider volume production of 300 hp V-8 engines a priority. \n\nUndisguised, the car looks OK, but not nearly as exciting as the new\nCamaro/Firebird, IMO. \n\nI suspect Ford will produce their car with higher quality than GM will \nachieve with the Camaro/ Firebird. The way GM loses money, the temptation\nto \"just get them out the door\" for the sake of positive cash flow will be \ngreat once demand really takes off. ", "...\n...\n\nSome other owners on the ford-probe@world.std.com mailing list have commented \nabout this problem, but I haven't seen it happen on my 3 month old \n'93 Probe GT. I think this may be something that Ford has corrected since \nthe initial batch of cars. Also, someone said that Ford has issued a \nservice bulletin to inform dealers about how to correct this problem, so you \nmay be able to get your dealer to fix it.\n\n\nHaven't seen any of these problems, nor have I seen these mentioned on the\nmailing list, so these might just be having bad luck with these.\n\n\nDefinitely!\n\n\nNo problems like these either. I haven't been able to find any obvious \nplaces where they screwed up.\n\n\nHmmm! I got two keys with my car. Something tells me you got stiffed by\nyour dealer on this. (Actually, if you count the \"credit card\" key that \ncame in the owner's binder, I got 3 keys, but since the credit card key\ndoesn't have any teeth cut in it yet, I guess I won't count it. :-))\n\n\nThe latter is probably because of the air bag. It's pretty much takes up\nall the space where you'd expect to find the horn.\n\nSpeaking of the horn, I was surprised to find that the Probe comes with one\nof those nice 'merican sounding horns instead of the Japanese sounding kind.\nThe previous Probes had Japanese horns.\n\n\nYeah, not very badly, but enough to be annoying sometimes.\n\n\nI agree strongly with all of the above, especially about the engine. The\ninterior is very, very nice too. Very pleasing to the eye, and ergonomically\nsound.\n\n...\n\nYes, this car's stiff suspension isn't for everyone. I personally like it,\nbut if you find it a little harsh but otherwise like the car, I'd strongly\nsuggest looking into the MX-6.\n\n\nThe problem with the back seat is that there's no leg room. Plenty of \nhead room, though. Shorter people fit back there without any complaints,\nso long as the seat they are sitting behind is pulled forward a bit to \ngive them a place to put their feet.\n\n\nThe power moonroof can greatly improve the ventilation throughout the car. :-)\nI really enjoy the moonroof, by the way, but then I've always been a sucker\nfor open air driving. No leakage problems or anything like that...yet!\n\n\nI haven't heard about this one. I know that some of the very early Probes\n('89 and maybe '90) had problems with prematurely rusting mufflers (which\nFord will replace at no charge), but I haven't heard about anything like\nthis concerning the '93 Probes.\n\nI haven't had any real trouble with this car outside of a CV joint boot\nthat was leaking, but the dealer took care of that promptly, and even\ngave me a free rental car for the day and a half that I was without my\ncar. I was quite happy with the way they handled...especially considering\nthat I was expecting the worst from them!\n\nFrom what I've heard, it sounds like Ford/Mazda had some QC problems with \nthe Probe (and probably MX-6) when they first went into production, but \nI think these problems have mostly been corrected at this point. That's\nalmost always to be expected with a completely new car like this, though.\n\nHope this helps,\n\n-chuck-", "\n\nAwww, right, you want all the home mechanics lined up against a wall and\nshot eh?\n\nBull Pucky you chicken! Read the service manual and get your head out of the\nsand! Certainly there are tools for the job that are cheaper than an alignment\nrack, that do the job as competently (albeit, not as swiftly), if not\nmore accurate, due to the natural pride an owner/mechanic places on his work.\nYou can do an `acceptable' job of aligning a car using simple tools and\nsome imaginative work that would *never* have the effect of endangering\nanyones life. The worst that happens is that your tires wear oddly (well,\nyou could have the wheels aiming TOTALLY pigeon toed and not be able\nto steer the car, raise your hands those that think their vision is\nso poor that they would screw up this badly!)\n\nI bet you are one of those people that feels that honing a cylinder wall\nwith sand paper will kill millions of people. It aint magic. Go take the\ncertification course, and look at the people that have never learned to add\nin their whole life that are taking the certification!\n\nBTW, I am disgusted at the Colt (and some of the other Chrysler offerings)\nbecause they go out of alignment if you sneaze at them. My '84 Chrysler\nLaser (Similar to the Daytona, a reskinned Colt) needed a realignment every\n3 months ... Bolt a good grade 12' 2x4 to each wheel, using a carefully welded\nspacer jig. Measure toe in, adjust to manufacturer specs. Camber a bit more\ndifficult to adjust and measure ... I used a micrometer to measure the\nspace between the rim and a funky bent up pipe that could be placed on\nupper and lower portions of the rim on the inside of wheel (hard to explain).\nThis same tool could be used instead of the 2x4s. I had made these tools up\n*right* after the last alignment done professionally so I had a reference that\nthe original poster might not ...", "Acetone will likely damage the carpet. First solvent to try is denatured\nalcohol. Do not waste your time with rubbing alcohol. You can use methyl\nalcohol instead of denatured alcohol. If you want to have a cocktail while\nyou are removing the goo, use pure grain alcohol :-). If the alcohol does\nnot work try carbon tetrachloride. If neither of these work you may need to\ntry a stronger solvent, but the alcohol works for most adhesives. Good luck.", "\n\n\n\nI've got an 89 GT. It has the smoked taillight assembly. I think this is where\nthe water is getting in. When I first got it (had it for a month), one of the rear\ntaillights fogged up with moisture. I took it in to the dealer and they replaced\nthe entire assembly. It happened to the other one about 3 months later. This time\nI happened to look in the spare tire well and noticed water standing in there. The\ndealer was more reluctant this time to replace it. But I convinced them to\nfix it. (They must have had to deal with a number of other probes with the same\nproblem.) I haven't noticed water in the taillamps (or the trunk) for the last 2.5\nyears, but just last month, the taillamp just fogged up again. I'm going to try\nto take it back to get them to fix it again. I'm real tempted to drill some vent\nand drain holes in the tops and bottoms of the assembly and forget about it. This is\ngetting very annoying. (Almost every other `89 GT I've seen has had this problem.)\n\nVel\n-- \n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n-- Vel Natarajan nataraja@rtsg.mot.com Motorola Cellular, Arlington Hts IL --", "I have a question about tires for my Guzzi. It is a '75 850-T. The tires that\nwere on it when I just bought it are old and cracked. I do not have an\nowners manual for it (yet), but the tires listed in the Haynes manual are:\nFront, 3,50 H 18 ; Rear 4.10 H 18, and pressures recommended are 26 front and\n33 rear. Oddly, the pressure for the same tire on the T-3 is listed at 29 psi\ninstead. Anyone know the reason? As I know though, the pressure I should run\nat is that recommended by the manufacturer of the new tires I purchase.\n\nThe real question I have is this. The old tires that are on the bike are for\nthe front, a Metzler Touring Special, 4.10 H 18, and for the rear an Avon\nRoadrunner 4.70 H 18, (120/90) H 18 as marked on each tire. Both are larger\nthan that listed in the Haynes Manual. What does the owners manual recommend,\nand was it common to go up one size for this bike? Also, this will be my first\nmotorcycle with innertubes. Any comments on the various manufacturers inner\ntube qualities?\n\nThe above sizes are inches (except for the additional mark on the current\nrear tire). What is the best metric match? The local BMW dealer thought\n100/90 H 18 on the front and 120/90 H 18 on the back. He also happens to be\nvery good at getting close to matching mail order prices.\n\nI am thinking of going with a Metzler ME33 Laser (possibly Comp K) on the\nfront and ME88 on the back, both in MBS variety if possible (the longer \nlasting belting system). I already use the ME33 on both the Vision and\nFJ for the front, and like it, and I thought that with the shaft drive\nbehavior and torque from the Guzzi that the ME88 might give more predictable\nback end control and sliding behavior than a ME55 might, as well as giving\nmuch better tire milage life. Any comments?\n\nA friend told me he thought that my bike had Boranni rims which are very\ngood, but are relatively soft and have delicate sidewalls. I do not wish to\nmount the tires myself this first time, so aside from warning the shop to be\ncareful, any other comments I should make? I havn't looked at the rim to\ncheck out the make yet, if it is marked. He just told me late yesterday and\nI havn't had a chance to check the rim type.\n\nOn another note. I will remove the ugly (but in good shape....anyone want it?)\nVetter fairing, and I will run without a windscreen for a while, but eventually\nI would like a simple rounded cafe' style quarter fairing for it. It could be\nfork/handlebar mounted. Any suggestions? Is there such a thing as a frame\nmounted quarter fairing of the cafe' style for this bike? How about lower\nbars/clip-ons for it? I would like to restore the bike into a good condition\nrunner with a few modern updates, but while not being historically exactly\naccurate still have it reflect relatively well a representation of the cafe'\nstyle. (Yes I know to be picky, that period really predates this bike....it is\njust that this bike has such potential for _that_ look.)\n\n-----------------------------Edward Walsh----Hewlett-Packard Company-------\n edw@boi.hp.com Disk Memory Division, MS475\n (208)323-2174 P.O. Box 15 Boise,Idaho 83707\n 89FJ1200;82XZ550RJ(Vision);75Guzzi850-T;DoD#98", "In regards ot some of the posts concerning bias in articles of k bikes\nversis /2's or boxers of a later date or whatever.. Jeezzz, Lighten up!\nI wrote the slash two blues for a bit of humor which seems to be lacking\nin the MOA Owners News, when most of the stuff is \"I rode the the first\nday, I saw that, I rode there the second day, I saw this\" \nany body out there know were the sense if humor went in people?\nI though I still had mine, but I dunno... \nRegards \nCraig Vechorik\nBMW MOA Ambassador #9462\nDOD #843\nAnd hey, I just want ya'll to vote.. O.K.? for SOMEBODY instead of throwing\nit in the trash...\n\n", "That plastic bodywork is useless. That torque, and an upright riding position is\nbetter than a slightly or radically forward riding position combined with a high-rpm\nlow torque motor.\n\nTo a cruiser-motorcyclist, chrome has some importance. To sport-bike motorcyclists\nchrome has very little impact on buying choice.\n\nUnless motivated solely by price, these are the criteria each rider uses to select\nthe vehicle of choice. \n\nTo ignore these, as well as other criteria, would be insensitive. In other words,\nno one motorcycle can fufill the requirements that a sport-bike rider and a cruiser\nrider may have.(sometimes it's hard for *any* motorcycle to fufill a person's requirements)\n \nYou're fishing for flames, Dave.\n\nThis difference of opinion is analogous to the difference\nbetween Sports-car owners, and luxury-car owners. \n\nThis is a moot conversation.\n\n\n-- \n=> Dan DeClerck | EMAIL: declrckd@rtsg.mot.com <=\n=> Motorola Cellular APD | <=\n=>\"Friends don't let friends wear neon\"| Phone: (708) 632-4596 <=", " I found it very interesting that Atlas depended on pressure to\nmaintain tank geometry....leads me to the question: ? have any \nof the SSTO concepts explored pressurized tankage such that the\nlaunch configuration would be significantly different from the\nreentry one? I have long been facinated by pnumatic structures\nas conceived and built by Frei Otto and others, a \"ballon\" tank\nSSTO sounds very clever. \n\n", "hand.\n\nLand Crusier is just simply nice with shit-load of power and room.\nFully stocked, it cost ~$40,000. I think it is worth the money.\nOnly problem is when you get into accident(it doesn't usually break down\nunless you forget to get a oil change for 30000 miles or something\nstupid like this), body parts and other parts are very hard to locate. \nParts are over priced also. One of my friend had accident in past snow\nstorm and he is still waiting for front bumper and passenger side fender.\n\nWell, if you test drive Land Cruiser, all other SUV look like toys.\nOne of magazine writer called it \"Land Bruiser\". \n\nIf you have $40,000 to spare for SUV, get Land Cruiser and forget Lange Rover.", " \nHow about your two big toes? And while you're at it, why bother with removing\nthe drain plug when you could remove the dipstick instead and suck it out from\nthere with your mouth and then spit it out?\n", "1991 Toyota Camry\n Deluxe model\n 5 sp\n power windows\n power door locks\n power steering\n power brakes\n AM/FM cassette\n 70K highway miles\n Excellent condition\n\n $9800\n\n (914) 335-6984 day (until 5pm)\n (609) 397-2147 (after 7pm)\n ask for Bob Fusi\n\n Rob Fusi\n rwf2@lehigh.edu\n E-mail or call for more info....", "Hi! This is my first time to post on this news group. Now a days , I have stucked at a certain problem. I have '88 mazda mx-6, non turbo fuel injection.\n There is a engine warning signal on the dash board. While driving, this signal turns on, but not always. What does this mean? In the manual, they say \"Go to authorized mazda dealer.\". It is really good idea. Don't you think so? \n I wanna know how the engine warning signal comes. Is anybody out there who can give me same advice as \"authorized mazda dealer\" can give ?\n\nYoujip Won", "\nSETRA SYSTEMS, 4 Nagog Park, Acton, MA 01720, Ph: (617) 263 - 1400\nSchaevitz Engineering, US Rt. 130 & Union Ave., Pennsauken, NJ 08110\n Ph: (710) 892 - 0714\n\nAccelerometers are not cheap, mainly because the outputs are fairly linear \nwith respect to acceleration. You don't say what the range of acceleration \nyou want to measure is, and there are other ways in which to measure it \nother than using an accelerometer. Additional information would be helpful \nto anyone who may respond.", "Sender: \nReply-To: harmons@gyro.WV.TEK.COM (Harmon Sommer)\nDistribution: \nOrganization: /usr/ens/etc/organization\nKeywords: \n\n\n\nUnless they have been taught to \"neck rein\". Then the left rein is brought\nto bear on the left side of horse's neck to go right.", "\nHas he realised yet....or are you hoping to fix it before he does ? \n\nIf you're planning to use T-Cut...BE CAREFUL. Sunlight fades paint and T-Cut removes the surface layer, so if its a older bike or very sunny where\nyou live then the colour of the T-cut panel wont match the rest of the bike.\n\n-Bob\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------\nBob Morley\t\t\t\tPIPEX (Public IP EXchange)\nDoD #549\t\t\t\t216 Cambridge Science Park\nOgrite\t\t\t\t\tMilton Road\nCBR1000FL\t\t\t\tCambridge, CB4 4WA\nEly & District MCC\t\t\tEngland", "The price you have on the 650 8/80 seems very good. I too would like to know\nwhere it is from\u001cif it is not giving away secrets.\n\nThanks, Alan.", "it's\nwith\ncars;\n\nI wonder if you could focus the RFI \"gun\" so the cops wouldn't have this \nproblem???", "21 Apr 1993 egreen@east.sun.com (Ed Green - Pixel Cruncher) Writes:\n-->}Sheesh, even a trained attack dog is no match for a human,\n-->}we have *all* the advantages.\n-->\n-->I agree with this 100%. \n--\n--Me, too... for chihuahua's. The police and the military don't train\n--dobermans and shephards and use them as weapons because they are so\n--easy for the average Joe to defeat barehanded. You may have opposing\n--thumbs, but the dog has teeth so effective some of yours are named for\n--him. He has IR vision, better hearing and better smell than you do,\n--and most likely faster reflexes.\n--\n--You're on a motorcycle, he's on paws. Roll on and blow him off. He\n--doesn't even have net access.\n--\n--\n--Ed Green\n\nC'mon Ed.........\n\na) All things have their weak areas\nb) What's IR....Idiot Response......Dogs have more Rods or Cones (I'm not sure\n which?) than humans and this allows their eyes to collect more light in lower\n light conditions. Consequently their colour vision is almost non-existant. I\n mean, if dogs had built in infra-red vision, the armed forces would be\n strapping them to missiles instead of paying a quarter million for IR guidance\n capabilities.\nc) My dog has net access ! !\n \\_/", "Unable to stand the pain anymore, my wife bought the Corbin Gunfighter\nand Lady with Passenger Backrest for my Hawk GT.\n\nIt came with no instructions, but it came 2 weeks earlier than they\nsaid it would. Installation would have been very easy, but the seat\nfastening hardware was apparently always on the wrong sides with\nthe stock seat! It never was easy to put on. Once I figured that\nout, the new seat went on the first try. The passenger backrest, though,\ndoes not fit as I thought it might. The supplied screw to set the \nbackrest angle does not fit, and I have not yet found a suitable, \nhard, ( SAE grade 8, or perhaps 5 ) 1/4-20 bolt that fits. There is a\na soft bolt in there now -- just don't lean back.\n\nThe driver's section of the seat is a bit wider. Seems comfortable\nenough, but then again I put about 5000 miles on the stock seat\nwithout a thought. The passenger's section has about 8 times the \nvolume of foam that the stock seat has, and from my short test it\nseems much more comfortable. The backrest helps a bit, but I've not \nhas enough time to really test it. The backrest also comes with a \nsmall pocket. Its now more difficult to swing my leg up over the \n10\" taller seat.\n\nIf I go on the three-notch ride soon ( Dixville, Pinkham & Smugglers),\nI'll give a more complete report, but in general it seems like an\nimprovement.", "\nIt varies. You may get a catalog or price list from the advertiser, or\nif the ad was a specific product - a slec sheet on that product or line.\n\n", "\n\nI was out of date. VW is stealing execs directly from Opel,\nindependent of Lopez. Shameful.", "QUESTION: what's your experience with car wash wax?\n\nThis is the liquid type of wax in bottles that you pour it in\nwater, sponge it on you car, hose it off, and dry it with cloth.\nMany people have used it. It is very easy to work with and gives\nseeminly the same visual results as that of paste type of wax.\n\nBut, does it last long? Does it have any negative effects to car\npaint?\n\nCan you forward your reply directly to my email id? Thanks.", "\n\n\nNope, it's 24 lbs. lightrer than the 900.\n\n\nA single disk that is quite impressive. WIth two fingers on the lever,\nmuch to Beth's horror I lifted the rear wheel about 8\" in a fine Randy\nMamola impression. ;{>\n\n\nI have a feeling that it's going to be fast enough that Beth will give\na few liter bike riders fits in the future.\n\n\nThe steering locks are adjustable.\n\n\nBeth sees fine out of them... I see 2/3 of them filled with black\nleather.", "\n: Also watch your mirrors any time you are turning. I just had another close\n: one last night. Preparing for a right turn on a two lane road. Right turn\n: signals on, starting the turn, and this lady behind me hits the throttle and\n: starts to pass me on the RIGHT. This has happened to me twice before. the\n\nI have had this happen to me often enough that I always look for it.\nOn my ride to work in the morning I come to a stop light where there are\n3 lanes in my direction. One for left turns, one for straight through, and\none for right turns. All clearly marked. Plus there is a clearly marked \nbicycle lane. I ride into the right turn lane with my signal on and stop at \nthe stop line. Looking left to see if I can make a \"right turn on red\" and\nwhen I start to move discovered that some idiot has pulled into the bike\nlane and is trying to pass me on the right. GRRR.\n I always do a head check on bike lanes. Not always for bicycles. . .", "\n\n\nIs there an \"official DoD products-of-choice\" list? If so would the \nappropriate party please post it. \n\n-Erc.", "\n\n\nVell...Let's see...vas you muzzah in der passenger seat? Or vas you muzzah in\nder leefing room, vit you fazah?", "\nOK. And you regularly ride your bike to within 2% of it's maximum capability?\n(Note any idiot can go flat out on a bike - most of them do.)\n\nAnyway, efficient at what? A shaft drive is a much more efficient solid (erect) lump\nof metal than a floppy (flaccid, unsatisfying) chain.", "All you have to do is turn it in to the police like you would an accident,\nget a report and send it in to your insurance company and they will contact\nthe other guys insurance company and they will have to pay just as they\nwould in an accident they caused. Thus no need to go to court. A friend of\nmine did this and he got the money so it does work.\n", "My sister has an MGB. She has one from the last year they were produced\n(1978? 1979?). Its in very good shape. I've been bugging her for years\nabout selling it. I've said over and over that she should sell it\nbefore the car is worthless while she maintains that the car may\nactually be increasing in value as a result of its limited availability.\n\nWhich one of us is right? Are there MGB affectionados out there who are\nstill willing to pay $6K to 8K for an old MG? Are there a lot out in the \nmarket?\n-- ", "\nYour best bet is the Dodge Intrepid with the SOHC 24 valve 3.4? six.\nit gets 214 hp, and has a hell of a lot of room, great styling, and\nABS, with four wheel disk breaks. The LH cars won Automobile \nmagazines \n\"automobile of the year\" award, and are quiet impressive.\n\n", ": kevinh, on the Tue, 20 Apr 1993 13:23:01 GMT wibbled:\n\nJonathan Quist bemoaned:\n\n: : |> Yes, it's a minor blasphemy that U.S. companies would ?? on the likes \nof A.M.,\n: : |> Jaguar, or (sob) Lotus. It's outright sacrilege for RR to have \nnon-British\n: : |> ownership. It's a fundamental thing\n\nLotus looks set for a management buyout. GM weren't happy that the Elan was \nlate and too pricey. If they can write off the Elan development costs the may \nbe able to sell them for a sensible price.\n\n\n: : I think there is a legal clause in the RR name, regardless of who owns it\n: : it must be a British company/owner - i.e. BA can sell the company but not\n: : the name.\n\n: : kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch\n\n: I don't believe that BA have anything to do with RR. It's a seperate\n: company from the RR Aero-Engine company. \n\nIt's Vickers who own Rolls Royce cars. \n\nAnd yes Kevin it is posts, Morgan use a sliding pillar front suspension.\n\nOb Bike (at long bleeding last): When will that Pettefar bloke get a mail \naddress so we can bung him on the Ogri list?\n\ndave", "\n=8^/ Nothing like giving newbies a land rocket to practice on. \n\n\nYup. Accelerate right into the back of an 18-wheel truck.\n\nUm. How's the easiest way to get newbies of the road? :)\n\nRegards, Ted.\n", "\nIf you had been looking in your mirror, you would have seen the guy coming \nbefore you heard the screeching tires.\n\nWhen you're stopped at a light:\n\n1) Stop so that you're got space in front of you, and a quick easy escape\nroute (between lanes, into a crosswalk, up a driveway, somewhere) if someone\ndecides they want to plow into you.\n\n2) Keep the bike in first with the clutch in until at least a couple of cars\nare stopped behind you, so you don't have to waste a second you don't have\ntrying to get it in gear if you need to move.\n\n3) Watch your mirrors. In that situation, most of the hazards you are \ntrying to avoid are coming from behind you. SIPDE (<-- msf-geek-speak)\nisn't just for when you're moving. And you're less likely to panic and stall\nthe bike if you've got time to prepare before the guy's tires lock up behind\nyou. (You still get the bejeezus scared out of you, but it's more a feeling\nof quickly-rising dread than a sudden jolt.)\n\n\n\n\n", "\nDon't you mean \"former motorcyclist?\"", "Mercedes-Benz announced yesterday its plans to begin building sport-utility\nvehicles in the US by 1997. They are targeted at the Jeep Grand Cherokee\net al. and will reportedly sell for less than $30,000.\n\nDid anyone see a picture? Is it the G-wagon (Gelaendewagen) currently\navailable in Europe (and in the US by grey-market) or is it an entirely new\nvehicle? Any details would be appreciated.", "\n\n[Loads of horrendous MZ engine problems deleted]\n\n\nYeah, buy a four-stroke.", "\nMost cars have drain petcocks in the radiators, and I've never \nseen nor heard of a vandal opening one. I imagine that there\nwould be an even lower risk with an oil plug because you have \nto crawl furthur under the car to open it. \n\nCar vandals are usually real traditional in their methods, and do things\nthat don't get them dirty, like keying your car, dumping sand, sugar\nor mothballs in the gas tank, TPing it, etc.\n", "an excellent automatic can be found in the subaru legacy. it switches to\n\"sport\" mode when the electronics figure it, not when the driver sets\nthe switch.. which is the proper way to do it, IMO. so what does \"sport\"\nmode entail? several things:\n\n1) revving to red line (or to the rev limiter in the case of the legacy)\n\n2) delayed upshifts. (i.e. if you lift off briefly, it will remain in the\n\tlow gear. this is handy if you are charging through corners and\n\twould like to do without the distraction of upshifts when there's\n\tanother curve approaching)\n\n3) part throttle downshifts, based on the *speed* at which the pedal is\n\tdepressed, rather than the *position* of the pedal. modern\n\telectronics can measure this very easily and switch to sport mode.\n\tthis is wonderful if you want to charge through a green light about\n\tto turn red. my audi senses this very well and can downshift on as\n\tlittle as half throttle if my right foot is fast enough.\n\nalso, i think that a smart automatic can deliver better gas mileage\nthan a dumb driver with a stick, all else being equal.. remember that\nthe idea of a stick being more economical than an automatic makes a\nbig assumption that the driver is smart enough to know what gear to\nuse for each situation.. how many times have you ridden with an\ninattentive driver cruising on the highway at 55/65 in 4th gear (of a\n5 speed)? \n\nhow many % of people who drive manuals *really* know what the best\ngear to use is for every conceivable situation? i'm sure there will\nbe some who know, but i suspect that a chip controlled automatic with\nall possible scenario/ratio combinations stored in ROM is likely to do\nbetter. i can also say that all my previous assumptions were proved\nwrong after i got a car with instantaneous mpg readout... high gear,\nlow revs and wide open throttle is more economical than low gear, high\nrevs and small throttle opening. the explanation is quite simple if\none sits down to think about it, but not that obvious at first sight.\n", "\n When did *you* go out and change the laws of physics? :-) According to some\nnumbers I used to see bandied around, shaft drive is on the order of 95-97%\nefficient, while chain drive is closer to 99%... Seems to me that this makes\n*chain* drive more efficient, hmmmmm???\n\n And granted, shaft has a lot less maintenance, which is fine, if you don't\nmind less performance... :-) :-)\n\nRandy Davis Email: randy@megatek.com\nZX-11 #00072 Pilot {uunet!ucsd}!megatek!randy\nDoD #0013", "\nWell, I used to get mad, and either try to communicate my anger to jerks,\nor to, uhm, educate them in how to improve their manners in traffic.\nNow I just try to get them off my tail.\n\nIn heavy traffic I slow down a bit, mostly so I have more buffer zone in\nfront to balance the minimal buffer behind, but I also often find that the \njerk behind will notice traffic moving faster in other lanes, switch\ninto one of them, and pass me - which is fine, because then I can keep a\nbetter eye on the jerk from behind, while looking ahead, rather than\nfrom in front, while splitting my attention between ahead and the mirrors.\n\nIn traffic so heavy that there is no way for the jerk to pass,\nI might pull over, as if to look for a street number or name,\n(still ignoring the jerk) just to get the jerk off my tail. \n\nIf this all sounds, well, wimpy or un-Denizenly or pessimistic, or perhaps \n(for any psych types) passive-aggressive, consider that I prefer to get\nmy adrenaline jollies from riding, rather than from yelling at jerks. \n\nA ride can improve my whole day, while yelling at a jerk is likely (for\nme) to ruin my ride or my day with my own anger. In the worst case,\nyelling at the jerk could ruin my life - since even a tiny jerk in a\ncage behind me is better armed (with the cage) than I am on a bike. \n\nOn the other hand, you might try subtly arranging to be the last\nvehicle to legally cross one or more intersections, leaving the jerk\nwaiting for cross traffic (and thus off your tail), or crossing\nillegally (hopefully in front of the waiting police).\n\nLike almost everything here, your choices and mileage will vary.\n", "\nCost is lower than OEM replacements and they weigh less. Also, in most \ninstances you do not have to rejet the carburetors to get a little more \nperformance. I replaced my OEM canister with an Ontario systems slip on.\nThe mid-range performance is better but I also notice a slight stumble at \n2-3K rpm. After talking to Kaz Yoshima, the developer and manufacturer of \nthe slip on, he thinks I might need larger pilot, idle, jets. Was not suppose\nto but maybe where I live makes a difference. Altitude, barometric pressure...\nAnyway, besides that minor glitch, I like the slip on performance and the sound,\nwhich is louder than stock, but not loud enough to annoy folks. The Ontario \nslip on use some sort of sound baffling technique to reduce the sound at full \nthrottle.\n\nJust remember, every bike is a tuned system. When you change the intake or\nexhaust characteristics beyond the allowable delta of the manufacturer, you may\nhave to change other areas to compensate. Like a complete change of the exhaust\nsystem, header and muffler, changes the exhaust characteristic to the point\nwhich re-jetting is required to compensate for the new engine breathing/pumping\nprofile.\n\nTalk with the folks who make the slip on you intend to use and ask them if\nthey have used it on your particular bike. Check with people who have the\nsystem also to see what they think about there slip on.\n\nAlso, as a last data point, in Sport Rider's first issue, did a review on a\ngroup of header and exhaust systems for the CBR600F2. They also included, as a \nside bar, the Ontario slip on, the Dyno showed an increase from stock of 5bhp at\nthe rear wheel, 85 verses 91. \n\nBuyer beware, of outrageous claimed increases in horse power! It may have been \ntrue in the past, but not today!", "\nNo.\n\nAt least, that's what I told the NASA rent-a-cop that stopped me\nbecause he swore I was \"lifting it up.\"\n\nHe didn't completely buy the part about water in the carbs, either.\n", " .\"\n\nI'm surprised. I know of a local case where a guy took his Saturn back five\ntimes to complain they hadn't properly eliminated a rattling noise...so Saturn\ngave him a new car.", "\n\nAn '82 FT500 Ascot was my first bike--I recommend it. If anyone's\ninterested, mine's for sale. It's in LA currently, with a bum\nstarter and around 10k miles. I'd like a couple hundred for it.", "\n\n\nYes this is a common problem. The leaks occur through the seal of the \ntaillights. Unfortunately, Ford has this with Most Probes and does\nnot have a recall for it. Very dissatisfying to say the least.\n\n\nThere is no drain holes that I know of. I used a margine tub to drain it\nRegretably I waited three months as I was short cash and they wouldn't fix it\nunder warrantee. Then I paid dearly as it messed up my electrical system\nincluding a balance/motion sensor which is located near the fuel shutoff in \nthe trunk. This resulted in my passive restraints malfunctioning--they would\nnot retract. So I ended up paying about $200 to have the sensor replaced; \n$90 to have the tail lights resealed (they firts replaced the hatch gasket\nwhich I insisted was not the problem so they did not charge me for that\nwhen I proved to be right.); not to mention the water damage to the \ncovers to the trunk/spare com partment and algae in the taillights.\n\nvery annoying. Don't let the water problem go--get it fixed or you'll pay\nmore later. Considering how common a problem it is I hope every one\ncomplains to Ford.\n", "\nThis should not be the case if they are at all reputable. Fuel injector \ncleaning is done properly with a can of injector cleaner solvent which is\nhooked up to the fuel system under high pressure. The car is actually run on\nthe solvent during the cleaning process. The equipment to properly do this is\npricey, and generally not something the average home mechanic has. The solvent\nitself is not very expensive ($5-$8) and you could probably make up a hose to\nfit your system and do it yourself, but I didn't tell you that... :-)\n\nNot many in-tank cleaners are worth wasting your money on. There has been a \ndiscussion of these products on here from time to time, and Chevron Techron\n(not Pro-Gard with Techron) is generally regarded as the best. It is, however,\na bit more than $1.29 a bottle. IMHO, it will not substitute for proper\ninjector cleaning if they are really crudded up. You'll have to decide if the\n$59 price is a better deal than spending your time and/or buying equipment to\ndo it.", "I am looking for a tandem bicycle, any make, any model, and any condition. I\nwould prefer a complete bike, but just a tandem frameset is OK, too. Please\nemail me if you have one for sale.\n\nP.S. I will pay shipping from anywhere in Canada or U.S.\n", "\n\n\nJust for the record, read your owner's manual before attempting a push start.\nMost manufacturers today do not recommend this (I think the catalytic converter\nis the primary reason - unburned gas goes down to it and may ignite when\nthe converter gets into its operating range).\n\nThe best reason for a manual? Because you like to drive one. I find that its\nmuch easier to develop lazy habits in an auto trans car. Remember, pay \nattention out there - stupidity behind the wheel has still taken more people\nto the morgue than drunk driving. The problem is that we don't revoke peoples\nlicense for stupidity.", "\n\nFrom what I understand about radar dectectors all they are is a passive\ndevice much like the radio in your car. They work as an antenna picking\nup that radar signals that the radar gun sends out. Therefore there would\nbe no way of detecting a radar detector any more than there would be of\ndetecting whether some one had a radio in their car. ", "\t\t\t\t ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\n\tBeen a while since you hit the PIP? The pavement (at least until around\n\texit 9) is for sh*t these days. I think it must have taken a beating\n\tthis winter, because I don't remember it being this bad. It's all\n\tbreaking apart, and there are some serious potholes now. Of course\n\tthere are also the storm drains that are *in* your lane as opposed\n\tto on the side of the road (talk about annoying cost saving measures).\n\t\t\n\tAs for traffic, don't try it around 5:15 - 6:30 on weekdays (outbound,\n\trush hour happens inbound too) as there are many BDC's...\n\n\t<...> <...>\n", " How do you take off the driver side door panel from the inside\n on an '87 Honda Prelude? The speaker went scratchy, and I want\n to access its pins.\n\nWhy are you posting this tripe to rec.autos.vw?", "I have been looking at buying a 1989 Jeep Laredo and was wondering\nif anyone had any bad or good experiences with this model. Is it\nall that much different than the other YJs? \n\n It looks, feels and sounds like a nice vehicle even thought the\nprice is rather steep for an '89 (12K Canadian).\n", "\n\n\n\n\nSo after I've flashed my lights at the chap in front and he doesn't\n'pass it on' (and few if any do), what next? On major highways, 3 or more\nlanes in each direction, keeping to the extreme right blocks folks who\nare entering. Also, as someone posted in this thread, here in the D.C.\narea we have a few left lane exits (sounds like 66). If you wait until\nthe last minute to get in the left lane you won't, cause these yoyos\nwon't make room.\n\nWe have a particularly bad strech here in Merryland just over the Cabin\nJohn bridge. There are two very long entry ramps which all the hurry-up\nyahoos dive into cause they want to get ahead. When we get to the point\nwhere these ramps merge, all hell breaks lose. The result is that traffic\nwhich was moving at 55 on the VA side of the bridge, stalls on t'other\nside. If these dingbats had stayed in lane, allowed the folks coming up\nthe two ramps to merge, we would still be doing 55. Instead we do start-\nstop for 4 miles. Dave Barry's idea of a laser equipped car would be\nreal useful here.\n\nBob", ";Revving the throttle requires either [dis]engaging the clutch, \n;or accelerating. \n\nNot if it's a Harley.\n", "Yes,\n\nTake Interstate I-70 to the route 48 exit. Go south on 48 about\n2-1/2 miles. Trun right on Shiloh Springs Road. The hamvention is\nat the Harrah arena, which is about 1 mile west and on the north\nside of the Road. Parking at the arena is limited. Lodging is\nprobably entirely booked-up within a 40 mile radius. Good luck.\n\n | |\n 48 I75\n | |\n----------I70----------....---------\n | |\n | |\n X | |\n(mall) --------| |\n S. Springs |\n\nIt is possible to park at the mall to the west. There are shuttle\nbusses running between the arena and the mall.\n\nIf possible, get a Montgomery County, OH map from your local AAA\noffice. It should be free if you are an AAA member.\n\nIf you don't already have definite plans, now is not a particularly\ngood time to start to think about going to the hamvention.\n\n\n", "\nI don't know if some lemons are out there, but from personal experience\nMy brother's has been trouble free. Not one single repair, only \nregular maintainance. The only work he had done on it was a result\nof his stupidity... he stopped suddenly in the middle of a left turn \non a busy intersection, and was rear-ended. He has a 1989 Plymouth\nSundance. I would recomend it, but I would also like to say that if\nyou can wait about six months, ChryCo is coming out with a new car\ncalled the Neon, that is built in the same way as the LH's where.\nGood luck with your desiscion.\n\n\n", "\nYes. Unfortunately, there is also the concept that the owner of a car\nis not responsible for the actions of any (authorized) user of the car.\nThat's one of the biggest arguments against photo-radar ticketing\nsystems.\n\n\nTrouble with that is, you then have no recourse if a mis-issued ticket\nor a clerical error on a computer follow you around. The City of Chicago\n(the informal motto of which being \"The City the Works\") issues dozens\nof parking tickets each year to people who have never set foot (or tire)\nin the city.\n", "First off, the correct spelling of Nissan's luxury automobile division\nis \"Infiniti\" not \"Infinity.\" I would also like to clear up the question\nof what kind of engines power Lexus and Infiniti automobiles, since a\nperson had remarked in earlier posts that most Lexus and Infiniti models\nhad V6 engines, while at the same time saying that several of each\nmanufacturer used V8 engines.\n\nLexus:\n LS400- V8\n GS300- V6\n ES300- V6\n SC400- V8\n SC300- V6\n\nInfiniti:\n Q45- V8\n J30- V6\n G20- inline 4 (I must admit that I cannot remeber for sure here)\n\nI hope this helps.", "You may find it useful.\n(This is a repost. The original sender is at the bottom.)\n-------------------cut here--------------------------------------------------\nArticle 39994 of rec.motorcycles:\nPath:\nscrumpy!bnrgate!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.ute\nexas.edu!swrinde!mips!pacbell.com!iggy.GW.Vitalink.COM!widener!eff!ibmpc\ncug!pipex!unipalm!uknet!cf-cm!cybaswan!eeharvey\nFrom: eeharvey@cybaswan.UUCP (i t harvey)\nNewsgroups: rec.motorcycles\nSubject: Re: Best way to lock a bike ?\nMessage-ID: <861@cybaswan.UUCP>\nDate: 15 Jul 92 09:47:10 GMT\nReferences: <1992Jul14.165538.9789@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>\nLines: 84\n\n\nThese are the figures from the Performance Bikes lock test, taken without\npermission of course. The price is for comparison. All the cable locks\nhave some sort of armour, the chain locks are padlock and chain. Each\nlock was tested for a maximum of ten minutes (600 secs) for each test:\n\n\tBJ\tBottle jack\n\tCD\tCutting disc\n\tBC\tBolt croppers\n\tGAS\tGas flame\n\nThe table should really be split into immoblisers (for-a-while) and\nlock-to-somethings (for-a-short-while) to make comparisons.\n\n\t\tType\tWeight\tBJ\tCD\tBC\tGAS\tTotal\tPrice\n\t\t\t(kg)\t(sec)\t(sec)\t(sec)\t(sec)\t(sec)\t(Pounds)\n========================================================================\n=========\n3-arm\t\tFolding\t.8\t53\t5\t13\t18\t89\t26\nCyclelok\tbar\n\nAbus Steel-o-\tCable\t1.4\t103\t4\t20\t26\t153\t54\nflex\n\nOxford\t\tCable\t2.0\t360\t4\t32\t82\t478\t38\nRevolver\n\nAbus Diskus\tChain\t2.8\t600\t7\t40\t26\t675\t77\n\n6-arm\t\tFolding\t1.8\t44\t10\t600\t22\t676\t51\nCyclelok\tbar\n\nAbus Extra\tU-lock\t1.2\t600\t10\t120\t52\t782\t44\n\nCobra\t\tCable\t6.0(!)\t382\t10\t600\t22\t1014\t150\n(6ft)\n\nAbus closed\tChain\t4.0\t600\t11\t600\t33\t1244\t100\nshackle\t\n\nKryptonite\tU-lock\t2.5\t600\t22\t600\t27\t1249\t100\nK10\n\nOxford\t\tU-lock\t2.0\t600\t7\t600\t49\t1256\t38\nMagnum\n\nDisclock\tDisc\t.7\tn/a\t44\tn/a\t38\t1282\t43\n\t\tlock\n\nAbus 58HB\tU-lock\t2.5\t600\t26\t600\t64\t1290\t100\n\nMini Block\tDisc\t.65\tn/a\t51\tn/a\t84\t1335\t50\n\t\tlock\n========================================================================\n=========\n\nPretty depressing reading. I think a good lock and some common sense about\nwhere and when you park your bike is the only answer. I've spent all my\nspare time over the last two weeks landscaping (trashing) the garden of\nmy (and two friends with bikes) new house to accommodate our three bikes in\nrelative security (never underestimate how much room a bike requires to\nmanouver in a walled area :( ). Anyway, since the weekend there are only two\nbikes :( and no, he didn't use his Abus closed shackle lock, it was too much\nhassle to take with him when visiting his parents. A minimum wait of 8\nweeks (if they don't decide to investigate) for the insurance company\nto make an offer and for the real haggling to begin.\n\nAbus are a German company and it would seem not well represented in the US\nbut very common in the UK. The UK distributor, given in the above article\nis:\n\tMichael Brandon Ltd,\n\t15/17 Oliver Crescent,\n\tHawick,\n\tRoxburgh TD9 9BJ.\n\tTel. 0450 73333\n\nThe UK distributors for the other locks can also given if required.\n\nDon't lose it\n\tIan\n", "[...]\n\nAs anyone who attended HoHoCon will attest, you can pick information\noff the video chip. It's surprisingly easy too. The guy did it with\na portable TV, with very minor mods. It only worked from 3 feet, but\nthen it was just a demonstration.\n\n\tRA\n\nrogue@cs.neu.edu (Rogue Agent/SoD!)", "\n\n\n\nEasy Rider (harleys, drugs, rednecks, New Orleans), Mad Max (violence, DoD \nwanna-be's), Time Rider (Honda Thumper, Time travel), On Any Sunday \n(Documentary about dirtbike racers, GREAT!), The (Great?) Escape (Steve \nMcqueen, Nazis), Rebel Without a Cause (James Dean, future DoD'ers). I \nthink the last two are right, they are OLD movies I haven't seen in YEARS. \n ----===== DoD #8177 = Technician(Dr. Speed) .NOT. Student =====----", "\n\n[interesting dog collision story deleted]\n\n\nMy driveway and about half my neighbor's driveways are long enough to\ndo a good 80 clicks (50mph for the velocity impaired) if we wanted to.\nGranted, I live in the country, however I've seen neighbors whip out\nof their driveways at the above mentioned 30 mph quite a bit- they\nclaim they can tell that \"There's noone on the road for quite a ways.\"\nThis despite having nearly been hit myself by one of them while driving\na Chev 4x4, and twice taking my 10-speed bicycle over the hood of a\ncar that had pulled out, saw me, *then* stopped. Same driver. Same car.\nAbout two months apart. \n\nObMoto: The scary relevant part is that these people and I live on the type\nof twisty two lane that we all favor for riding- and I know damn well\nthat they can't see me on my bike, not if they couldn't see me in \nmy pickup.\n\n\n\n\tThere's nothing like the pitter-patter of little feet,\n\tfollowed by the words \"Hey- you're not my Daddy!\"\n\n\t(Sorry- I had to do it just once)\n\t\n", "I don't know if it's as much an issue of their ablility to handle the\npower as it is the power they lose (in the torque converter, etc).\n\nHowever, if you encounter a '93 Formula with 5.7L & 6-Speed Manual,\nYou'll be SOL, I'm afraid. ;) BTW, I know of what I speak as a former\nowner of a 5.7L Auto IROC (1989) and current owner of the\naforementioned car... \n \nChris S. \n-- \n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nChris Silvester | \"Any man capable of getting himself elected President\nchriss@sam.amgen.com | should by no means be allowed to do the job\"\nchriss@netcom.com | - Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy", ": You were right the second time, it is KNX. Believe it or not, I also\n: listen to KNX in the evenings here in Colorado! It's kind of fun driving\n: through the country listening to traffic jams on the 405. Back to your\n: original question. Yes, there are sensors just past every on-ramp and\n: off-ramp on the freeways. They're the same sensors used at most stoplights\n: now (coils in the pavement). You might want to give CalTrans a call or\n: even ask Bill Keene (KNX's traffic reporter). I doubt if just anyone can\n: get the information, but it would be worth asking just in case you can\n: get it.\n\nI seem to remember that they sell the information (and a computer connection)\nto anyone willing to pay.\n\nOn the subject of the pavement sensors, can anyone tell me more about them?\n\n-- \n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nChristopher Wolf Electrical Engineer cmwolf@mtu.edu", "I'm looking to buy a used motorcycle helmet. I'm interested in a full\n face shield, but not necessarily a helmet with the piece around the chin.\n\n Please email me directly.\n \n Janice Kendall kendall@adobe.com ...!{decwrl|sun}!adobe!kendall", "No, that sounds pretty reasonable for that car and that city.\n\nUnless you have an accident, you won't need more. If you plan on\npaying for the car with a credit card, check and see if your card\nautomatically covers rental cars. Also, your own auto insurance may\ncover rental cars also.\n\nMost rental companies here offer extra insurance when you rent, and\nrequire you to initial in several spots if you don't want it. The\ncredit cards and personal auto insurance provide the same sort of\ncoverage that the rental agency is trying to sell.\n\nI have never rented from Alamo, so I don't know if they follow this\nsame practice.\n\nYes. It is a compact 2-door, probably a bit dull performance and\nacceleration-wise, but very adequate. It will have an automatic\ntransmission, AM/FM stereo, air conditioning, and possibly power \nwindows and door locks.\n\nJoe\n\n\n", "\nBefore the S4 became the S4 it was called the 200 turbo quattro 20v.\nThis model did come in a wagon, a very quick wagon. Very rare also.", "\ni have no experience with State Farm, but i think it's important to\ndifferentiate your experience from a typical \"accident.\"", "This past winter I drove from NYC to Killington,VT 6 or 7 times in my\n1990 325i Convertible (talk about poor reputation in the snow!!)\nwith an EXCELLENT set of snow tires. I put 4 Noika NR10s on in Dec. and have been \nsure footed in some pretty severe weather conditions ever since. I've plowed through\n4 - 5 inch snow covered roads effortlessly, while other cars have been paralyzed\n(front wheel drive included).\n\nConcentrate more on \"where the rubber meets the road\" rather than driveability of cars\nin snowy conditions. Drive carefully, buy good snow tires, and most cars will perform\nadequately in less than ideal conditions.\n\nAn aside: \nI can't praise Noika NR10 snows enough. Absolutely the BEST snow tires I have ever\ndriven on. If you live in the snow belt, do yourself a favor and get a set of these\nnext winter. \n\n\nTim\n\n", "\n......\n\n\n\nWell, not me. However, I wouldn't trade all the times I've^H^H^H^H a\nclose friend has been pulled over, cussed and shouted at, and finally\nlet off with a verbal warning in exchange for a few waves & smiles!\n\n:-) if you like but I'm serious.\n\nLater,", "%\n% I can't haul my big dic. around on my bike...\n%\n\n ...or is it a boast?\n\n-- \n ------------------------------------------------------------------------\n | John Little - gaijin@Japan.Sun.COM - Sun Microsystems. Atsugi, Japan | ", "\n\n\nGood thing i stuck in a couple of question marks up there.\n\nI seem to recall, somebody built or at least proposed a wasp waisetd\nPassenger civil transport. I thought it was a 727, but maybe it\nwas a DC- 8,9??? Sure it had a funny passenger compartment,\nbut on the other hand it seemed to save fuel.\n\nI thought Area rules applied even before transonic speeds, just\nnot as badly.", "\nFreebie and the Bean, GREAT chase scene on a trials bike!\n\n ----===== DoD #8177 = Technician(Dr. Speed) .NOT. Student =====----", "\nI had knee surgery while I was in the Navy back in 77. The \ndoctors put me in a cast from ass-to-ankle. My only method of transportaion \nwas a DOHC 450 Honda at the time. I found that by sliding back on the seat \nI could use my heel (did I mention it was my left leg?) to operate the shift.\nI would hook the end of the lever with my heel and lift my entire leg for up-\nshifts and just drop my leg on the lever for the down-shifts. Forget \nnutral, took WAY too much finesse for the leg! The crutches were bungee-\ncorded to the right side of the bike with the \"top\" resting on the passenger \npeg and the right turnsignal sticking through the \"hole\" in the crutches. \nEvery other day when I rode the 10 miles to Physical Therapy (tourture \nsessions) the doc would give me hell about riding a bike much less riding in \nmy condition. Didn't stop me tho! B-P\n\nBTW. This is the same bike I assembled in my second floor barracks room and \nrode down the stairs when it was completed!", "mjs>Well, there are just as many courses here and elsewhere that do *not*\nmjs>teach the technique, yet seem to be rather successful...\n\nSure. You don't miss what you never had. Those poor sods don't know\nwhat they're missing. I guess ignorance is bliss, eh Mike?\n\nMr. Bill", "\n\n Y'all got the first two reversed.", "For sale, 1988 Toyota Corolla FX, AM/FM radio, nothing else.\nLow mileage - 28,000. (I ride my bike to work.)\n\nDark Blue. Good condition. ONLY $3800. \n\nI am leaving the country for a year and must sell this\ngreat city car.\n\nCALL RENEE FECTEAU - (408) 924-5171 leave message.", " Seems to me that I heard that some early Saabs were 2 cycle V4's.\n Then again, who could possibly care ?>\n\n\n", "\n Stick an ME33 on the front. I've got a Laser on the front of my GPz,\nand it has been a fantastic tire. Best front tire I've ever had.", "I am looking at the honda shadow 11000 and the intruder 800 or 1400? what have you heard about these bikes?", "\"The Villager-Quest seem like the best of the Cravan/Voyager\n\tcopies to come along since the Mazda MPV.\"\n\nI'll agree about villager but not MPV -- it's so small that I'd class\nit as a SUV with an extra seat shoehorned in. To get any rear cargo\nspace, you shove the back seat up against the middle seat, eliminating\n*all* leg room.\n\nBack to the Villager ...\n\n\t\"Only the price is controversial.\"\n\nAnd the use of attack belts instead of 3-point belts. That killed it\nfor me.", "\nIn article <1993Apr19.141959.4057@bnr.ca>\n: >\n: >> With regards to the pub brawl, he might have a history of such things.\n: >> Just because he was a biker doesn't make him out to be a reasonable\n: >> person. Even the DoD might object to him joining, who knows?\n\n: If he had a history of such things, why was it not mentioned in the\n: article, and why did they present the irrelevant detail of where he\n: got his drinking money from?\n\n: I can't say exactly who is at fault here, but from where I sit is\n: looks like we're seeing the results either of the law going way out\n: of hand or of shoddy journalism.\n\n: If the law wants to attach strings to how you spend a settlement, they\n: should put the money in trust. They don't, so I would assume it's\n: perfectly legitimate to drink it away, though I wouldn't spend it that\n: way myself.\n\n: -- David Karr (karr@cs.cornell.edu)\n\nWe heard about this from a newspaper article. Journalists and editors\nalways pick out the most interesting and sensational \"facts\" for our\nfacts get in the way of a good story\". You must have noticed how\nmotorcyclists get treated by the press. They thrive on hysteria,\nignorance, sensationalism and one-upmanship. Unfortunately there's\nnot enough salt to keep taking a pinch of.\n\n--\n\nNick (the Cynical Old Biker) DoD 1069 Concise Oxford Leaky New Gearbox\n\nM'Lud.", "\nCam chain.\n\n -Mike", "\nMy $0.02 worth: I did this once. BDI LadyCager in a Town Car passed me on\nthe right on a two lane road!:-{ I memorized her license plate (this in the\ndays before I carried pen and paper in my tankbag) and went to the local\npolice station. Cops filled out the ticket. I signed it. She paid it!\n\n tom coradeschi <+> tcora@pica.army.mil", "I heard the diesels are considered cleaner-burning than\ngas engines because the emit less of: Carbon Monoxide,\nHydrocarbons, and Oxides of Nitrogen. (CO, HC, NOX).\n\nBut they can put out a lot of particulate matter. I heard\nsomething about legislation being discussed to \"clean up\ndiesel emissions\". Is there anything in the works to\ninstall \"scrubbers\" for diesels? How about the feasibility\nof installing them on trucks and cars? Would it be any\ndifferent than a catylitic converter? I'd assume easier,\nsince we're removing particulate matter instead of converting\ngasses. Let's hear people's opinions...\n\n-- \n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n-- Vel Natarajan nataraja@rtsg.mot.com Motorola Cellular, Arlington Hts IL --", "\nPrimarily milage. Gas is much more expensive, so people are very\nconcerned about it taking a few more liters per kilometer. This,\nalong with narrow old cities, also results in smaller cars with\nsmaller engines. These engines usually don't have the torque to mesh\nwell with an automatic. So, having engines that don't work well with\nautos, and a great concern for milage, the usual Euro-car has a\nmanual.\n\n(Note that not many big Benzes come with manuals. If you've got the\nmoney for the car, you've got the money for the gas, and the engine to\ndrive through the slushbox.)\n\nAs automatics become more efficient, the \"bigotry\" is probably\nreduced. Still, everyone knows how to drive a manual, and cars are\ncheaper with one, and it saves a little expensive fuel. So there\naren't compelling reasons to go automatic.\n\n-dB\n", " I need some advice on having someone ride pillion with me on my 750 Ninja.\n This will be the the first time I've taken anyone for an extended ride\n (read: farther than around the block :-). We'll be riding some twisty, \n fairly bumpy roads (the Mines Road-Mt.Hamilton Loop for you SF Bay Areans).\n\nCommunication: work out your own system. Or just slow down and holler\nback every once in a while. At reasonable speeds, even on my under-muffled\nMagna, we can hear each other. It's only above, say, 45 MPH that you \ncan't really communicate.\n\nBalance: New passengers are a real pain, because you never know how\nthey're going to react to steering. Some people catch on immediately\nand lean with me. Others are completely skittish about the leaning\nthing, and keep their bodies perpendicular to the horizon. This is a\npain while turning, but manageable. The WORST are the passengers who stay\nperpendicular to the horizon, then REMEMBER in the middle of a turn\nand WHIP AROUND until they're in the `correct' position. This always\nscrews up the line I've picked out.\n\nHere's my personal checklist of things to tell passengers:\n\t- attire: helmet, long pants, boots/heavy shoes, jacket.\n\t- Keep feet on pegs at all times, unless I say otherwise. Do not\n\t get on/off unless I say you can. (I've had people try to dismount\n\t in traffic, just as I'm pulling in to a parking space!)\n\t- Muffler gets HOT! ('Nuff said)\n\t- We get *GOOD* traction. We're not going to fall over. (Many\n\t first-time riders are surprised by how tightly you can turn!)\n\t- Turn dynamics: sit so that you feel like you're sitting upright and\n\t we're going straight. Trust your butt, not your eyes -- if you're\n\t confused, close your eyes for a couple of turns to get the feel\n\t of it. Or just hug me tight. \n\t- Please, no sudden moves -- shift your weight as desired, but be \n\t gradual, so I can compensate.\n\t- Your faceplate is yours to open/close as desired.\n\t- Trust is essential. Trust the driver (me) to do the right \n\t thing -- I've driven many miles on this thing, and know how\n\t to operate it. Enjoy the ride. (This is important to\n\t stress. For example, one of my first-time passwngers seemed to \n\t watch the speedo like a hawk: I drove her to the beach down 84, \n\t and whever we topped 35 mph, she'd holler, \"SLOW DOWN! I'M SCARED\" \n\t I humored her for a while, then simply covered the speedometer with \n\t the spare piece of duct tape I keep stuck to the top of the cluster.\n\t Problem solved: she watched the scenery instead of the\n\t instruments, and had a much better time. Based on her\n\t experience driving a Lincoln Continental, she was unwilling to \n\t trust my ability to choose a safe speed for the bike.)\n\nUsually I'll point out the controls, engine, transmission, brakes, \ntires, etc. and discuss motorcycle physics a bit too for first-timers.\nHelps calm their nerves, and gives the bike a chance to warm up.\n\nWatch out for gravel on the Mt. Hamilton road: there were lots of little\nmudslides after the last big rain; by now, many of the blind corners will\nbe nicely covered with a carpet of little, round, nearly invisible stones.\nIt doesn't help build trust when you slide out on a blind corner, on the \nfirst trip!\n\nGood luck -- have fun!", "\nNeigh on every day. Most don't notice.\n\n\n\nWhat do I win?\n", "\nGive him the $2, leave the house and call the police. That's what I would\ndo. I will not kill to protect mere possessions.\n\nPeace be with you,", "\nBecause I'm a guy and most of my pillions are female. \n\nAlso, the other reasons, like having an idea where you passengers\nweight is, it being a more comfortable position for the passenger,\nand it being a more stable configuration all come into it as well.\n\nHolding the grab rail is a great idea only for braking, when you\ndon't want the pillion to slide forward into you, otherwise I don't\nfind it works well.", "\nA friend had a Ford Taunus (era early 60's) that *did* have a V4 in it.\n\nI lost a bet on it. I find it hard to believe there are no *recent* cars\nwith a V4 in them. Any *recent* ones?\n\nSpiros", "\n\n\n\n\tI think the Manta is the European name for the \"GT.\" I'm pretty sure\nthat the only Kadett's sold here were/are the Pontiac LeMans. I think the\nGT is just an early '70s to mid '70s Manta. ", "I was just wondering if there were any law officers that read this. I have\nseveral questions I would like to ask pertaining to motorcycles and cops.\nAnd please don't say get a vehicle code, go to your local station, or obvious\nthings like that. My questions would not be found in those places nor\nanswered face to face with a real, live in the flesh, cop.\nIf your brother had a friend who had a cousin whos father was a cop, etc.\ndon't bother writing in. Thanks.\n\n \n\n\n", "The whire wheels aren't chromed, they were to be painted silver/grey.\n\nThe accelerating from a stop shouldn't be \"doggy\" because of the light\nweight of the car.\n\nDon't pull the topto make it reach the snaps, I pulled a couple out of\nthe top doing that. Replacing the spanps usually doesn't work. Let it\nsit in th e sun, open on the car for a couple hours, the try, GENTLY!!!!\n\nI continually blew up the #4 connecting rod bearing, be sure your not\nburing too much oil.\n\nDon't expect too much of a smooth ride. The lever arm shocks hold the\nroad, and your bladder. The are ultra-expensive. Supposedly the can be\nrebuilt. J. C. Whitney sell a shock replacement kit the uses standard\nshocks.\n\nI had to rebuid boththe brake and clutch master cylinder, in addition to\nthe clutch slave. This work made a world of changes.\n\nBe sure the carb is the original type replacement. My 1970 had dual\nStomberg oil dampenned side draft carbs.\n\nAsk if the clutch has ever been replaced. To replace the engine and\ntranny have to be pulled as a unit.", "I bought a car with a defunct engine, to use for parts\nfor my old but still running version of the same car.\n\nThe car I bought has good tires.\n\nIs there anything in particular that I should do to\nstore the defunct car long-term? I'd hate to have\nparts of it go bad. Someone has told me it's bad\nfor the tires to not move the car once-in-a-while.\nIs this true? Do I need some props to take the\nweight of the tires?\n\nBest to reply by mail, I am getting spotty news delivery.", "man, every time this thread comes up, i start jumping up and down screaming '\nEASY WHEELS! EASY WHEELS!' but to date, it seems like _i'm_ the only one who'\ns ever seen this. it's absolutely hysterical. basic plot is this:\n\nreporter searching for a ring of babysnatchers is blow off the road by a (\nvery hot) gang of babe bikers in leather. he is rescued from his wrecked car \nin the desert by a xtian gospal biker band lead by an ex viet-nam vet with a \nsteel plate in his head that gives him visions from time to time. they soon \ndiscover that the gang 'o babes is kidnapping children to be raised by \nwolves (the reasoning behind this is complex), and they set out to stop them \nand restore justice and order to the world.\n\nit is one of the 5 funniest movies i have ever seen in my life.\n", "I purchased a used 1988 Nissan 300ZX (non-turbo) last year. I had a \nquestion on gear/rpm ratios. Right now in 5th @65mph I'm at \n2600-2700 rpms. @70mph I'm at about 2900rpms. Is this about the\nnorm? I'm an auto neophyte so I'm just wondering if these are\nthe proper ranges? Somehow the rpm figures seem high. A friend of mine\njust told me he can hit 60mph in 3rd on his 88 Chevy Beretta (2.8l V6.)\nAlso, anyone know the top speed attainable (@redline???) for this model Z?\n(Not that I would try it but it would be an interesting factoid. :)\n \n\t\t\t\tThanx!\n\t\t\t\t\tDerek\n\n", "\n\n\n\nHere in Iowa it is/has been OWI (operating under the influence) and OMVI\n(operating motor vehicle under the influence). They (gov't) changed it to\nOMVI so that people in motor boats could also be charged with drunk driving. ", "I don't know for sure that this will work, but you might try MEK (methyl\nethyl keytone?). It worked getting the stickum left over from shelf paper,\nand is available at paint stores. Use a carbon gas mask and lots of\nventilation--this stuff really stinks!", "\n\nAll gimmicks! Stick with plain 'ol carnauba wax that's non-abrasive.\nEagle 1, Meguiars, Turtle Wax, and a few others are good examples.\nThe colored waxes just color in the scratches so they're not so \napparent. The better approach is to buff minor scratches completely\noff with a cleaner/mild abrasive.\n\nNever tried Liquid Glass, although I still have this sample they sent\nme a few years back. ", "I consulted with someone working on an electronic odometer. The\ndesign was to use a microprocessor based system to write a somewhat\nofuscated pattern into an EEPROM. The idea was to make the circuit\ndifficult to program arbitrary values into the EEPROM. The\nsecondary purpose, acutally the primary purpose from the standpoint\nof practicality, was to distributed the writes so as to avoid\nexceeing the maximum number of writes fof the EEPROM being used.\nThe microprocessor also ignored pulses coming from the Hall effect\nat a rate any higher than 110 MPH so as to make spoofing the reading\nby bench pulsing at least somewhat undesirable. This was for an\nautomobile that was not expected to ever exceed 110 MPH in\noperation. The case, of course, might not be the same for your\n1993 RX-7!\n\nThe ECM modules of some cars do indeed store info about conditions\nunder which cars have been operated. Since steering angle and\nvelocity data, etc is available it would not be difficult to\ncollect all sorts of interesting demographic information about the\ndrivers' use of the car. I am not aware of any manufacturer\ncurrently trying to enforce warranty restrictions based on reading\nout use data from the ECM. While it could be a potential invasion\nof your privacy for manufacturers to have access to data about your\ndriving style, it could also provide valuable information from\nactual field use conditions to help engineer more appropriate cars.\nI personally wouldn't mind the dealer collecting my driving\ndemographics as long as it is done in an anonymous fashion.\n\n", "Okay, okay, I know the Ford Probe is made in the US, in fact it's\nmade in Michigan, at a Mazda plant. My question: are most of the parts\nfrom American or Japanese sources? I have been told that most of the US\nassembly plants for Japanese automakers import almost all of the parts used in\nthe vehicles.\n\nAny information anyone has on this will be appreciated!", "\nWell, if you want to pick on Morgan, why not attack its ash (wood)\nframe or its hand-bent metal skin (just try and get a replacement :-)). \nI thought the kingpost suspension was one of the Mog's better features.", "\n\nThe SC1/SC2 has a shorter wheel base than the SL/SL1/SL2/SW1/SW2, just a \nthought. Ithink your right though......\n", "\n\nBMWs boxer twin! (no two wheelers here?) Been around since 1923. I think the\nother examples are Johnny come latelies... I may be wrong so no flames please..", "\n I am happy to say that some Harley riders in our area are better than most\nthat are flamed about here: I (riding a lowly sport bike, no less) and my\ngirlfriend were the recipient of no less than twenty waves from a group of\nat least twenty-five Harley riders. I was leading a group of about four\nsport bikes at the time (FJ1200/CBR900RR/VFR750). I initiated *some* of the\nwaves, but not all. It was a perfect day, and friendly riders despite some\nbrand differences made it all the better...", "Now, I am jumping into the middle of this thread so I may not know\nwhat y'all been talking about, but I have a few comments:\n\n\nThere are a number of other factors that are very important, the three\nbiggest being air velocity, air momentum and shock waves.\nVelocity stacks have been used for years and are now being used inside\nof stock airboxes on a number of bikes. At a tuned engine rpm, the\nstacks can greatly increase the speed, and thus momentum of the air\nrushing in.\nAir momentum is critical in getting good air intake: the momentum of\nthe air stack outside the combustion chamber will force its way inside\nlong after the piston has begun its compressive up-stroke.\nShock waves are used to induce air intake and to prevent fresh air from\nescaping out the exzhaust ports. Shock waves are the product of expansion\nchambers or any other means of presenting a 'wall' (opening or closing)\nto the air in motion. Beyond this I am lost in the mystery of how they\ndesign for shock waves.", "* FOR SALE *\n From Ann Arbor, Michigan\n\n1988 Kawasaki EX-500 \n6682 miles\nCherry Red\nExcellent condition\nAsking $2300", "\nThey detect the oscillator operating in the detector. Saw a story about\ntheir use in Canada. Now don't go putting oscillators in your cars... :-)\n", "I was laughing about the law part.\n\nI've driven thru SOHO...manahattan, _I_ know what' you're talking 'bout...\n\n:^)\n\nNot that Durham, NC is any better...\n\n(well, maybe a little bit anyway, but the NC DOT takes more\nmoney from road taxes and puts it in their own pockets and\ninto the pockets of the guys building the large condos that\nneed their own roads than they do back into fixing roads, but\nhey, the local paper did a report of this last summer, and \nboy, am I glad I don't work for the DOT, 'cause they got SHAT\non, bigtime....wonder who lost their jobs? ED? Got any idea?)\n\n", "\nDamn right. I was late for a climbing meet one morning, so I got\nout of bed without bothering that my right foot was still asleep.\nIt reminded me by folding underneath with a crunching of Metatarsals.\nLucky the brake's on the right, but i got funny looks riding thru \nLondon with one leg held aloft.", "Hello everyone. I'm new to motorcycles so no flames please. I don't\nhave my bike yet so I need a few pieces of information:\n\n1) I only have about $1200-1300 to work with, so that would have \nto cover everything (bike, helmet, anything else that I'm too \nignorant to know I need to buy)\n\n2) What is buying a bike going to do to my insurance? I turn 18 in \nabout a month so my parents have been taking care of my insurance up\ntill now, and I need a comprehensive list of costs that buying a \nmotorcycle is going to insure (I live in Washington DC if that makes\na difference)\n\n3) Any recommendations on what I should buy/where I should look for it?\n\n4) In DC, as I imagine it is in every other state (OK, OK, we're not a \nstate - we're not bitter ;)), you take the written test first and then\nget a learners permit. However, I'm wondering how one goes about \nlearning to ride the bike proficiently enough so as to a) get a liscence\nand b) not kill oneself. I don't know anyone with a bike who could \nteach me, and the most advice I've heard is either \"do you live near a\nfield\" or \"do you have a friend with a pickup truck\", the answers to both\nof which are NO. Do I just ride around my neighborhood and hope for \nthe best? I kind of live in a residential area but it's not suburbs.\nIt's still the big city and I'm about a mile from downtown so that \ndoesn't seem too viable. Any stories on how you all learned?\n\nThanks for any replies in advance.\n\n\t-Greg Humphreys\n\t:wq\n\t^^^\n\tMeant to do that. (Damn autoindent)\n", "; I am a serious motorcycle enthusiast without a motorcycle, and to\n;put it bluntly, it sucks. I really would like some advice on what would\n;be a good starter bike for me. I do know one thing however, I need to\n;make my first bike a good one, because buying a second any time soon is\n;out of the question. I am specifically interested in racing bikes, (CBR\n;600 F2, GSX-R 750). I know that this may sound kind of crazy\n;considering that I've never had a bike before, but I am responsible, a\n;fast learner, and in love. \n\nResponsible and in love? I believe that's a contradiction\nin terms.\n\nUnless you're really brave (read: \"reckless\") a 500cc sport\nbike will go way faster than you dare for at least your first\nyear of riding. Getting more than that really is overkill,\nas you'll never even want to use it. The following bikes\ncan be bought (and repaired!) cheaply, are easy for a novice\nto manage, and are plenty high performance:\n Kawasaki EX-500\n Honda VF-500 \"Interceptor\"\n Suzuki GS-550E\n\nThe 0-100mph time of the EX-500 at full throttle is \"way\nsooner than you're ready for it\". :-) With something\nas small as a 250, you'd probably be wishing for more\npower pretty quickly (unless it's a TZR or RGV :).\n\nNow, I'm not saying that you're 100% certain to kill\nyourself immediately with a 600f2 or a GSXR-750. Plenty\nof people have started riding on those bikes and done\njust fine. What I am saying is that it's a waste of\nmoney, and a waste of perfectly good plastic when you\ndrop the thing learning how to balance while stopping.\nYou'll never get the throttle more than half open\nanyway, so why spend the extra 2000 bucks?\n", "\nDamn! So it was YOU who was drinking beer with ROBERT McELWANE in the PARKING\nLOT of the K-MART!\n\n\t\t\t\tUNLIMITED INSEMINATION OF THIS MESSAGE\n\t\t\t\t\tRIGIDLY REFUSED\n\n", "\nAnimal Rights people have been know to do that to other\n\"Bike riding dogs.cats and Racoons. \n", "Dear gentlemen!\n\nThe firm called \"INTERBUSINESS,LTD\" offers quite inexpensive\nmethod to determine ore & oil locations all over the world.\nIn this method used data got from space satellites. Being\nin your office and using theese data you can get a good statis-\ntical prognosis of locations mentioned above.\n\n This prognosis could be done for any part of the world!\nIf you're interested in details please send E-mail:\n\n svn@aoibs.msk.su", "\nDamn straight! As far as I've heard, unless the owner is _very_\nhard up, the GT-40s are not for sale at any price that mere\nmortals could afford.\n\n\nI think the GT-40 actually _is_ street legal, although that particular\nquestion is moot (see the price figures below).\n\n\nI wish I could find my Shelby-American guide; it included the GT-40\nregistry (as of '88 or so). There were precious few of them made \n(fifty is the number that springs to mind; they made just enough\nto qualify for the Manufacturer's Cup, or whichever series it\nwas that Shelby broke Ferarri's 13-year winning streak in in '65),\nand they are all accounted for. The last price I saw estimated on a\nGT-40 was a little bit over $1,000,000 (yes, that's right, ONE MILLION\nUS DOLLARS; it was second only to some worthless piece of Ferrari\nthat it would blow the doors off of ;-).\n\nI don't recall off-hand what the drive configuration was, although\nI'm certain some must have been LHD, as they had to be sold to qualify\nfor racing. The drivertrain was the Ford 427 (hi-riser, I think, \nand/or side-oiler) coupled to various 4-speed transmissions. They\nalso used 3-speed manuals; they had lots of problems with the\noriginal trannys breaking under the load of the 427. Layout was\nrear-engine, rear-drive, with the \"bundle of snakes\" exhaust\nheaders...I can remeber other bits and pieces of info, but I\ncan't remember whether they applied to the GT-40 or the Shelby\nCobra Daytona Coupe...I'll try and find that reference.\n\n\t\t\t\tJames", "Here's one I hope some knowledgeable readers will make a comment or\ncontribution to:\n\nIn the State of Virginia radar detectors are illegal, period. If\nyou are caught with one it will be confiscated on the spot and will\nnot be returned until after you appear in court and pay your fine. \nThe fine for having a radar detector accessible in a motor vehicle\n(even if it is not on) is $250.00. Sorry, tourist, ignorance of\nthe law is no excuse - they will get you too!\n\nIt used to be that the only way the law could be enforced was for\nan officer to actually see the radar detector. Not any more! Many\nlaw enforcement agencies are now using radar detector detectors. \nRight, a super sensitive receiver that is capable of picking up RF\nfrom the radar detector itself. My first reaction was \"no way!\" \nBut, guess again, these little buggers really work and the police\nare writing citations right and left for people using radar\ndetectors. One news story quoted an officer as saying that he had\nfound the radar detector in all of the cars he stopped except one,\nand he could never figure out where it was - but he knew it was\nthere. This tends to make one assume there are few false arrest.\n\nNow, before I get flamed, please understand that I do drive at or\nnear the speed limit. I do not need a radar detector to keep me\nfrom getting a speeding ticket. But, I do like to know when my\nspeed is being clocked or a speed trap is functioning. My radar\ndetector now stays locked in my trunk when I am in Virginia (which\nis what they want - and yes, what the law says, and I intend to\nobey the law!) and is only used in states where it is legal.\n\nFor my fellow hams, I am not a microwave person - my mind only\nworks in the HF spectrum between 10 and 80 meters. Microwave\nenlightment may be necessary.\n\nSo, the questions are -\n What do the radar detector detectors actually detect?\n Would additional shielding/grounding/bypassing shield stray RF generated by\n a radar detector, or is the RF actually being emitted by the detector\n antenna?\n Are any brands \"quieter\" than others?", "I was wondering if anyone out in net-land have any opinions on MGs\nin general. I know they are not the most reliable cars around but\nsummer is approaching and they are convertibles `8^). I'm interested\nin a 75 MG but any opinions on MGs would be appreciated. Thanks.", "I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, and word has it that\nsomething similar is on its way here. Since we apparently\ndon't have the sensor base you folks have, they're installing\ncameras at strategic points along the freeways (initial tests\nare going to be in the Santa Clara area I'm told), with the\nvideo being piped into a command center they're building\nsomewhere in the East Bay. I'm not sure if frame grabbers or\ncheap labor will be used to interpret the data, but large\nmulti-colored status displays will show the various routes\nusing different colors to represent the various average speeds\nfor each stretch of highway. An announcer will sit in front\nof the status 'wall', and will relay continuous verbal traffic\nstatus to those who want to receive it. They're apparently also\nlooking into licensing a low-AM frequency to be dedicated to\nproviding continuous audio from this system.\n\nIn the mean time, they'll set up large incandescent display\nboards along the test stretch to provide commuters with data\non traffic conditions up ahead. My understanding is that the\nsystem is subsidized as a pilot program, and information from it\nwill be available free of charge. Perhaps the LA system is\nsimilarly free or provided at an obviously subsidized rate (read\n\"cheap\").\n\nWe also have the traffic reports that are broadcast on the SAP\naudio channel of television channels 2 and 36. These are verbal\nreports, qualified with a identification tone to tell in-vehicle\nreceivers like the 'Auto Talk' that the information coming next is\napplicable to a given area. In LA, they're probably using some\nother TV channels, but the concept is the same. Try setting your\nstereo TV or VCR to receive the SAP audio channel, and go station\njumping to find out which one is broadcasting this information.\nI believe this program is also subsidized, making the in-vehicle\nreceivers cheap to purchase (and without having to incur monthly\nfees to use it). Since the makers of these in-vehicle receivers\ndon't have to pay for the broadcast (this may not be completely\ntrue), they likely have no investment in keeping the system\nup and running when the Cal Trans stuff hits the airwaves. You\nmay have a nifty little TV audio receiver in your car, nothing\nmore, when this happens. Perhaps a word to the wise...? ;)\n\nI think we'd all be interested in a summary post if you get more\ninfo on how the LA system is networked and paid for.", "\nyou may have been able to bounce the front up but not\nactually do a \"wheelie\". see the shaft effect unloads\nthe rear susspension and effectivly loads the front.\nthis is why a shaft bike should accelerate if it starts\nscraping in a corner......\n", "\n\nIn New Orleans, LA, there was a company making motorcycles for WHEELCHAIR \nbound people! The rig consists of a flat-bed sidecar rig that the \nwheelchair can be clamped to. The car has a set of hand controls mounted on \nconventional handlebars! Looks wierd as hell to see this legless guy \ndriving the rig from the car while his girlfriend sits on the bike as a \npassenger!\n\n ----===== DoD #8177 = Technician(Dr. Speed) .NOT. Student =====----", "\nAnother F2 rider had similiar problems, and this is the mail I sent him,\nhope this helps resolve you problem!\n\nAT\n\n\nGood point, did not catch this in the original post. The only other things \nwhich come to mind, since this is a gravity feed fuel system, is this.\nThe fuel petcock valve is vacuum controlled from the #1 carburator. Let\nsuppose there is a small hole or bad seal either in the hose itself or the\nvacuum valve in the fuel petcock. When it is cold, the hole is open enough\nto open the valve just enough to allow gas to the carbs with the choke on, \nsince the choke creates more low pressure in the carbs when on to draw gas, \nand as the engine and surrounding area warm up, the hole seals up. \n\nOne way to check fuel flow through the valve would be to pull the side \npanels off and remove the fuel hose to the carbs. Connect a tube of the \ncorrect size, preferably clear tubing to observe fuel flow, on the output\nside of the fuel petcock. Remove the control hose from #1 carburator. Make\nsure the tank is full. Place the valve in the ON position and apply vacuum \nto the control hose, preferably with a vacuum device with a gauge, to check \nfor air leaks. With vacuum applied, fuel should flow freely. To see if there is\na vent problem, do this with the fuel filler cap open and closed, if it \nflows a lot faster with the filler cap open, then there may be something in \nthe vent airway which changes position and depending on the position may clog \nor partially clog the vent. I have heard of some F2 fuel tanks being replaced \nto fix this problem. So the things which might be defective are, the control\nhose from #1 carb, the petcock valve, and possibly the fuel tank vent.\n\nNow if all of the above shows no problem of fuel flow when cold, then there \nis something in the carbs screwed up, but there are so many things to check, \nI would be typing all day to list them all! \n\nHere are a few, with everything back together, apply vacuum to the petcock valve\nand open the drain holes on the carbs one by one to check fuel flow. Open up the\nairbox and check for foreign debris or clogged airways on the carbs, there are\nquite a few on each carb.\n\nI hope something is flushed out with all this trouble shooting. If American\nHonda does not resolve this, get MAD AS HELL and report them to the BBB and\ncall the Honda Customer Service HOTLINE. It is a 800 number, but I don't recall\nit off the top of my head. I called just about tires for my F2 and a few days\nlater a customer satisfaction inquiry card arrived at home asking how I liked\nthe support I received, here would be your chance to tell them what you think!", "I have a 1974 Honda CB360T which for most of my purposes runs well. \nHowever I expereince a severe power drop at cruising speeds under load. \nThat is, on a mild upgrade @ 50 mph in 4th or 5th I'm lucky if I can\nhold speed. If I try to add throttle much past 5000 rpm, power drops\ndrastically. Put simply, under load, the engine won't rev past 5000\nrpm. The top third/half of the throttle range is dead. Standing still\nthe engine runs fine up to red line (9-10K).\n\nOther phenomenology: at about the point that power loss kicks in, the\nengine becomes a little wavery. That is, at a steady throttle the\nengine speed goes up and down slightly. The bike has about 13000 miles\non it and is in good tune, at least until it starts to balk.\n\nI would appreciate any suggestions as to what's ailing the poor beast. \nMy thoughts run toward clogged jets and/or improper spark advance. I'm\nhoping it's not something more drastic since the bike's not really worth\nthe hassle of any major engine work.\n\n Thanks,", "It's been a while since I've reviewed a car but today I paid a visit\nto an old friend whose love for Audis has been so overwhelming that he\nmakes a not too sucessful living selling them.\n\nWithout further delay, I will get to the 1993 Audi S4:\n\n\n1) Servotronic steering:\n\n[For those who are not familiar with what Servotronic is, it is the\nname for the speed variable power steering manufactured by ZF and\nused in Audis and BMWs.]\n\nI have been outspoken in my damming of Servotronic over the past\ncouple of months, and this was based on magazine reviews and drives of\nthe Audi 90 CS quattro and the Audi 100CS fwd. I am quite happy to\nreport now that on the S4, the Servotronic is *inoffensive*. I\nsuppose that due to the fat gumball tires, the Servotronic has been\nloaded up more and this, so far has been the best implementation that\nI have tried. It is far from perfect, mind you, and I'd be much\nhappier if it was an option that I could refuse, but on the S4, I no\nlonger consider this to be bad enough where I feel the entire car is\nruined.\n\nThe steering is still a tad too light, but it is accurate and I\nsuppose the stiffly sprung chassis sends back so much information that\nsome makes it through to the driver's hands. So there is feel and\nthere is accuracy in the S4's steering. But there is also room for\nimprovement. I consider the S4's steering to be better than the\nJapanese competition, primarily because the Japanese do not believe in\n\"feel\" and engineer it out completely.\n\n\n2) Engine\n\nWheee! What a pressure cooker. With just 110 miles on the clock I did\nnot expect the S4 to be producing anywhere close to what it will be\nputting out 10000 miles later, but still, the car packs a terrific\npunch. For a turbocharged machine, it is very unusual in that it\nencourages lazy driving. i.e. low revs, high gear. It is so\nsupremely flexible that one could hardly believe that there's only 2.2\nliters of displacement to move this 3700 pound car around in such a\nfashion. With maximum torque available at 1950 rpm and a 7200 rpm\nredline, the car can pretty much be left in third all day.. which\ntranslates to a speed range of something like 20-100 mph. A\nchracteristic that one normally associates with large capacity V8s.\nThe technical achievement is breadthtaking.\n\nThrottle response is right up there with a good atmospheric engine. In\nfact, it would even put peaky multivalve engines to shame. Downshifts\nare almost unnecessary. It is more fun to use the \"overboost\" feature\nthan to rev the engine. For those not familiar, the S4 engine features\nup to 15 seconds of additional turbo boost for passing. Sort of like\nlighting up the after burners in a jet fighter, one could, with the\nright foot only, in third gear, blast the car from 30 to 80 in just a\nfew moments.. simply by flooring the gas. As far as the numbers go,\nmaximum torque available in overboost mode shoots up to about 270 lb\nft.. incredible for a 2.2 liter. It takes a few moments for it to\ndevelop overboost but it is well worth waiting for. Since this is quite\na heavy car, one's body parts are not flung around like say, the Corrado\nVR6. The acceleration is smooth and strong, somewhat similar to riding\nin a jetliner as it accelerates down the runway on takeoff. Also, one\nis treated to a very distinctive and entertaining whistle from the\nturbo.. the only entertaining sound to come out of a very\nrefined but bland sounding 5 banger..\n\nYes, Audi has refined the 5 to the point where at 7200 rpm it sounds as\nserene as it does at 2000. The smoothness is outstanding, but not quite\nup to the standards of a very good 6, e.g. a 12 valve BMW. I'd say that\nin terms of refinement, i.e. willingness to rev, smoothness, lack of\nharshness under full acceleration it is better than many V6s. However,\nlost in the refinement process is the characteristic 5 cylinder bark\nthat made the older engines so characterful, if not terribly refined.\nThe 20 valve turbo 5 sounds pretty bland except for the whistle under\nfull boost. Subjectively, I'd rate the VW VR6 engine as being far more\nmusical than the turbo 5.. Also, Audi's own V8 is also far more musical,\nwith a rorty race car growl when pressed, though none of these can\nmatch its grunt.\n\nThe only hint of the engine's true capacity occurs when one is taking\noff from rest after the turbo has come to a near stop. With the extra\ninertia from the permanently engaged 4wd system, one has to be somewhat\ndelicate in feeding in the clutch to prevent an embarassing stall. \nAlternately one could use more revs.. In both cases a very small price\nto pay for such a fantastic engine. I think that Audi of America should\noffer an automatic option for this car, just as they offer (though in\nextremely small numbers) a 5 speed for the much peakier V8. The\ncharacteristics of the engine are perfect for an automatic. Ironically,\nin europe a slush is available but none is offered for the land of the\nslush. Marketing twits rearing their ugly heads again...\n\n\n3) Chassis\n\nI've noticed that Audis tend to have very wide wheels and relatively\nmodest tire widths. The car comes with Firestones of size 225/50 ZR16..\nwhich is not uncommon at all. However, the very attractive 5 spoke\nwheels are no less than 8 inches wide, so there is no sidewall bulge\nwhatsoever. Combined with the flared wheel arches, the S4 has a mouth\nwatering macho, yet subdued look. \n\nOn rough concrete, it becomes immediately clear that the new 100 body\nstyle has made significant advances in structural rigidity as well as\nroad noise suppression.. I suppose the two are inter-related, but I\ndigress. To use a cliche, the S4's body feels like it has been carved\nout of stone. Flex is totally undetectable, even when going over rough\nroads. With a super rigid body like this stiff springs and stiff dampers\ndo not cause excessive harshness and while the S4's ride quality will\nnever worry a Lexus, it will also not draw comparisons to trucks or\npony cars.\n\nThe servotronic steering has already been mentioned. I consider it to\nbe inoffensive because it did not inhibit spirited cornering. I was\nable to test the car's cornering powers without too much trepidation. I\nthink a new concept is at work in this car. With its fat gumball tires,\ntalking about understeer or oversteer is practically meaningless. On a\nbanked highway on ramp, I went in slow and started applying power as I\nwent around. I could feel the g forces build to the point where the\nskin on my face was being tugged sideways. Yet the car was totally and\ncompletely obedient to throttle and steering inputs.. It felt that the\nlimits were not even close to being approached. The g forces were\nthrilling, but the entire affair of going around a curve is strangely\nuninvolving. You tell the car what you want and it does it. End of\nstory. I think that I am starting to relate more and more to those\nreviewers who were highly impressed by the Honda NSX's clinical\nefficiency but were unable to fall in love with the car.\n\nThe brakes have a very good firmness to them and stop the car pretty\nwell too, though I've read that they are prone to fade. I am not too\nsurprised, since the S4 does not have uprated brakes over the base Audi\n100 fwd. Harder pads would help, but that in turn would lead to a more\nwooden response when cold. I am starting to see a trend among the\nluxury/sports sedan makers where extra weight is not being offset by\nadditional braking capacity. The LS400's fade performance is nothing to\nbrag about; neither is the Q45's or the Legend's. Brake fade these days\nseem to be a forgotten virtue when everybody's attention is focused on\nanti-lock capability.\n\n\n4) Comfort\n\nFor a car with such sporty abilities, its comfort levels are also\nexcellent. The cabin is beautifully appointed, with carbon-fiber panel\ninserts in place of the wood trim of the '92 S4. All the expected\ngizmos are there.. heated seats, power seats, seat memory, power this\nand that. The glaring ommision was the trip computer, which was removed\nbecause Audi hasn't gotten it to work reliably yet.. That means that the\ncar has no boost gauge. A real disappointment taking into account how\nmuch the turbo dominates its performance. \n\nUnusual for the germans, the S4 comes with a Honda style moonroof, as\nwell as the very intelligent dial-a-sunroof-position rotary switch.\n\nNoise levels, including engine and tire noise is so low that I wouldn't\nconsider the Lexus' advantage in this area to be significant enough\nto sway a potential buyer.\n\n\n5) Conclusion\n\nEven though few will be able to afford an Audi S4 at its sticker price\nof $48K, the car is a bargain if one takes into account what it has to\noffer over the competition. The 20 valve turbo 5 is a real gem, even if\nit doesn't produce Ferrari sounds. No other luxury/sports sedan maker\noffers the utter security of quattro all wheel drive, which to some is\nworth the extra money all by itself. The safety features are also \ntop notch.. 1994 side impact standard compliant, the very elegant \nautomatic seat belt tensioners and the dual airbags. The 100 series\nAudis have been outstanding in government crash tests. It gets my\nthumbs up for being so overwhelmingly capable rather than being\nall out exciting and intoxicating.\n", ";\n;>Most people wave or return my wave when I'm on my Harley.\n;>Other Harley riders seldom wave back to me when I'm on my\n;>duck. Squids don't wave, or return waves ever, even to each\n;>other, from what I can tell.\n;\n; When we take a hand off the bars we fall down!\n\nThe problem is that Squids and BadAssBikers can't recognize\neach other's waves. When you're riding a cruiser, you \"wave\"\nby lifting two or three fingers of the left hand, without\nfirst removing that hand from the handlebar. When you're\nriding a crotch rocket, you lower the left hand to about\nankle level, palm forward, and call that a wave.\n\nGeneric bike riders actually seem to raise the hand entirely\noff the handlebar and wave it around, so it's easy to tell\nwhen they're waving.\n", "\n\nI think you would lose your money. Julius was actually rather tall\nfor a Roman. He did go on record as favouring small soldiers though.\nThought they were tougher and had more guts. He was probably right\nif you think about it. As for Napoleon remember that the French\navergae was just about 5 feet and that height is relative! Did he\nreally have a complex?\n\nObSpace : We have all seen the burning candle from High School that goes\nout and relights. If there is a large hot body placed in space but in an\natmosphere, exactly how does it heat the surroundings? Diffusion only?\n\nJoseph Askew\n", " Brad Thone writes...\n\n Yep. If Ed's list is over 45-degrees, the wind's too strong to ride. :-)", "[Stuff deleted]\n\nCheck with the local fire department. My buddy is a firefighter and they\nhave these small map books which are Amazing! They are compact, easy to\nuse (no folding). They even have a cross reference section in which you\nmatch your current cross streets with the cross streets you want to go to\nand it details the quickest route. They gave me an extra they had laying\naround. But then again I know all those people I'm not really sure if they\nare supposed to give/sell them. (The police may also have something\nsimilar).\n \n\n--\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\n ..vela.acs.oakland.edu!psgi!todd | '88 RM125 The only bike sold without\n Todd Doolittle | a red-line. \n Troy, MI | '88 EX500 \n DoD #0832 | ", "For sale 1986 Harley FLHTC Liberty Edition.\nGood condition. Many extras. Asking $7500.\nLocated in Rhode Island.", "For Sale: 1990 Pontiac Grand Prix SE\n\nWhite, White rims, Gray interior.\n58K miles (mostly highway),\n3.8 Litre V6 multi-port fuel-injected engine,\n5 speed manual transmission.\n\nOptions include:\n\nA/C,\nRear defogger,\nPower steering,\nPower brakes,\nPower windows,\nPower locks,\nPower mirrors,\nCruise control,\nPower glass moonroof with sunshade,\nPower seat/recliner (driver's),\nPower seat/comfort/lumbar/headrest (both),\nAM/FM cassette stero,\nElectronic monitor/service system\nwith graphic compass,\nStereo controls duplicated on\nsteering wheel,\nRemote-keyless entry,\nand others.\n\nAsking $11,500.\n\nThe car looks and rides like it just rolled off\nof the dealers lot. It has been garaged and pampered.\nIt gets an average of 27.5 mpg highway, sometimes better;\ncity is around 19-23 mpg, depending on how it is driven.\n\nSelling because of baby coming soon. Need 4-door family\ncar. Will consider trade or partial trade with Ford Taurus,\nMercury Sable, or 4-door Pontiac Grand Am or similar American\ncar.", "\n\tIt is available through some dealerships, who in turn have to back\norder it from the manufacturer directly. Each one is made to order, at least\nif you get a nonstandard length (standard is 5', I believe).\n\n\n\tSee below\n\n\n\tI have a 6' long CobraLinks lock that I used to use for my Harley (she\ndoesn't get out much anymore, so I don't use the lock that often anymore). It\nis made of 3/4\" articulated steel shells covering seven strands of steel cable.\nIt is probably enough to stop all the joyriders, but, unfortunately,\nprofessionals can open it rather easily:\n\n\t1) Freeze a link.\n\n\t2) Break frozen link with your favorite method (hammers work well).\n\n\t3) Snip through the steel cables (which, I have on authority, are\n\t\tfrightfully thin) with a set of boltcutters.\n\n\tFor the same money, you can get a Kryptonite cable lock, which is\nanywhere from 1/2\" to 7/8\" thick steel cable (looks like steel rope), shielded\nin a flexible covering to protect your bike's finish, and has a barrel-type\nlocking mechanism. I don't know if it's adjustable, but my source says it's\nmore difficult to pick than most locks, and the cable tends to squish flat\nin bolt-cutter jaws rather than shear (5/8\" model).\n\n\tAll bets are off if the thief has a die grinder with a cutoff wheel.\nEven the most durable locks tested yield to this tool in less than one minute.\n\n\tFYI, I'll be getting a Krypto cable next paycheck.\n\nLater,", "Well my last two motorcycles have been shaft driven and they will wheelie.\nThe rear gear does climb the ring gear and lift the rear which gives an\nodd feel, but it still wheelies.\n", "FOR SALE OR TRADE!!!\n\nBMW R60US frame and misc.,converted to Earles fork. The package includes:\n\n\tFrame, swingarm and Earles fork\n\tFinal drive(27/8)\n\tRear fender, front fender, large tank\n\tSteel wheels laced w/ ss spokes, one new rim, one EC used rim\n\tAll brackets, brake hdware, footrests etc.\n\tThe colour scheme used is the original BMW optional Bristol grey\n\tItems not painted are: Earles rigid section(needs straightening,\n\t\tthis rigid section was bent when I received it, not from \n\t\tbeing mounted to the R60US frame),Earles swingarm and the \n\t\theadlight shell. I have the paintthat was used and can \n\t\tfinish the non-painted items if desired. The striping \n\t\twas done by Holt Design.\n\tNot included: engine, gearbox, electrics, seat.\n\nThis is a clean and tidy project. The project was terminated due to lack of\n\ttime and the R69(35hp) engine that was to be used was transferred \n\tto another project. I would prefer to sell the package as whole.\n\tI am negotiable as to what can be included in the package, I will\n\tnot separate any of the painted items. I am willing to take /2\n\tspares in trade. ", "After reading the service manual for my bike (Suzuki GS500E--1990) I have\na couple of questions I hope you can answer:\n\nWhen checking the oil level with the dip stick built into the oil fill\ncap, does one check it with the cap screwed in or not? I am more used to\nthe dip stick for a cage where the stick is extracted fully, wiped clean\nand reinserted fully, then withdrawn and read. The dip stick on my bike\nis part of the oil filler cap and has about 1/2 inch of threads on it. Do\nI remove the cap, wipe the stick clean and reinsert it with/without\nscrewing it down before reading?\n\nThe service manual calls for the application of Suzuki Bond No. 1207B on\nthe head cover. I guess this is some sort of liquid gasket material. do\nyou know of a generic (cheaper) substitute?\n\nMy headlight is a Halogen 60/55 W bulb. Is there an easy, brighter\nreplacement bulb available? Where should I look for one?\n\nAs always, I very much appreciate your help. The weather in Philadelphia\nhas finally turned WARM. This weekend I saw lotsa bikes, and the riders\nALL waved. A nice change of tone from what Philadelphia can be like. . . .\n\nChris\n", "I was privelged enough to experience my first Volvo attack this weekend.\n\nI was last in a line of traffic that was about 6 vehicles long, riding\ndown Rt. 40 in Groton Ma. At the side of the road, sitting off on the\nshoulder was the killer Volvo in question. No brake lights, no turn signal,\nnothing. We were doing about 40 mph and I was following the cage in front\nof me about 2.5-3 sec. back. Well, as said cage passes the Volvo, the\nBrain Dead Idiot (tm) behind the wheel decides that she doesn't need to wait\nfor me to pass also and turns out perpendicular across both lanes of traffic\nso that she can turn around... So I get on the brakes in a effort to not\nT-bone it, and the horn in an effort to wake the BDI up. As she finishes\nthe turn, she looks up at me with a completely blank, uncomprehending\nstare.\n\nWhere can I get rocket launchers for the VFR?\n\nDean", "What's the best lease quote that anyone has seen on a Toyota Previa DX or DX\nAll-trac for a two-year lease? If you know where I can get a better\nrate than $330/month, please contact me with the name and phone of\nthe dealership.\n", "Article: 41686 of sci.electronics\nNewsgroups: sci.electronics\nPath: news.nd.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!bogus.sura.net!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!asuvax!ennews!mcdphx!schuch\nFrom: schuch@phx.mcd.mot.com (John Schuch)\nSubject: Food Dehydrators\nMessage-ID: <1993Apr19.154356.17880@phx.mcd.mot.com>\nSender: news@phx.mcd.mot.com\nNntp-Posting-Host: bopper2.phx.mcd.mot.com\nOrganization: Motorola Computer Group, Tempe, Az.\nDistribution: usa\nDate: Mon, 19 Apr 93 10:43:56 EST\nLines: 9\n\n\nTry Mother Earth News, Feb/March 1993, pg 54, \"Build a Food Dryer\"", "Excerpts from netnews.rec.autos: 24-Apr-93 Honda Mailing list? by James\nB. Atkins@prism.ga ", "\nBlack ones look better. None are truely indiginous to America,\nalthough some of the finest are produced here. Gear is expensive, and\nyou never seem have enough of it. Volvos hit them. Only idiots\nintentionally rear up the front half off the ground just to look cool.\nPosers don't ride them in the rain. They are dangerous on ice. Loud\nones are annoying, and too much chrome looks dumb.\n\nYep, sounds familiar!\n", "\nBUTT, BUTT, THEN YU W0NT BE ABLE T0 $EE THE CAR$ $NEAK!G UP BEHIND YU AND\nP0P A WHHHEEEEELLLLEEEEE T0 D!TCHUM AND THE CHICK$ DIG IT!\n\nSeriously, though, putting a helmet on a mirror is inadvisable because\nyou are then resting the weight of the helmet on the fragile foam\nliner that is expected to cushion your noggin. And once crushed, that\nfoam never pops back.\n\nA variation of mirror hanging thing is what I do; with the bike on the\nsidestand (hey, the centerstand is for maintenance) I turn the wheel to\nthe stop (left) and can hang the helmet by the chin-bar on the right\ngrip. There is no crushable foam in the chin-bar, and it is pretty\nsecure on there (as long as the forks are locked). If I have to leave\nthe helmet with the parked bike (and the bags aren't on/full), that is\nabout the most stable place.", "Grr. Hate the bastard who picked the weather for today.\n \n Went up to visit a friend overnight (about 45 minute ride).. rode up after \nwork, only minor drizzing for the last 5 minutes of the ride... rest of the \nride was very zen.\n \n Got up this morning, needed to go home and get some disks & stuff to work \non her computers with, rainy as all hell. Soaked and cold by the time I got \nhome.\n \n Since I didn't have another set of thermals which were dry, I said \"to heck \nwith it\" and drove my cage back up.\n \n Lo and Behold, those funny blue clouds were up in the sky and this warm \nyellow thing I haven't seen in quite awhile showed up when I was 10 minutes \ninto the trip.\n \n And me in my cage. Oh JOY.\n \n \n Happily, my right hand mirror finally showed up at the dealer (dropped the \nbike when I first got it, put on an EMGO replacement mirror... hated it the \nentire time that thing was on my bike because I couldn't see a DAMNED thing \nthrough it, plus it's flat instead of convex like the stock mirrors, so you \nget a NARROW ANGLE wobbly blur)... And I got a replacement windshield for my \nfairing (dropped the original and chipped the front edge... cosmetic but \nannoying)... so I spent half an hour happily unscrewing things and replacing \nthem this afternoon.\n \n 'Bout the only thing I still hate about the bike ('75 CB360T) is the damned \n\"2 D-Cell Flashlight\" headlight.", "\nYou Ford vs Chevy people must live in the planet of Detroit or Droid.\n\nLike they say in the airforce, with enough horsepower anything will fly.\n\nI can put a 32valve V-8 with twin Garret-4s on Yugo and get 7.7sec QM.\nThats useless ... Its still a Yugo that will loose any race on a track,\nor on the street.\n\nHave you Detroit beings compared the ultra-long-throw stick shifts of\nthe 5.0 with the 93 MR2 turbo or 93 RX7 (I ll buy it in 6 mos) ?\n\nOr the Torsen differential of the RX7 compared to the Differential of \nthe 5.0 that sounds in every hairpin turn ?\n\nAnd bythe way 5.0 and Camaro both have drums on the rear breaks ...\nHello , this is the 90 's ?\n\nVlasis Theodore\nSoftware Engineer", "Hello:\n\nDo you know about a mouse odometer for windows? I have seen one for the \nMac. It is quite fun. It records the distance, in miles, that the\ntravels during use.\n\nThanks in advance:\nSteve\n\n", "\nThe 91 and 92 Cruisers run the 4.0L straight 6 which only has about 150hp \nand 220lb-ft of torque. Plenty off-highway, marginal on the highway.\nThe 93 has a much improved 4.2L straight 6 with >200hp and 275ft-lb torque.\n\n\nIf you take them on rough trails, you'll see the difference. The Cruiser\nis an order of magnitude better in off-highway ability.", "\nLimited Tort Option will lower your rates. If you choose it, you can't\nsue others for pain & suffering, but you still can sue for economic loss.\nSo you can sue for your wrecked car and for medical bills, but you can't\nsue for $1000000 for pain and suffering.\n\nAt least, that's how I understand it.", "\nYa, Fat Chance. The \"offending\" rider was a moto journalist. Those\nguys can sell hundreds of bikes with one stroke of the pen and\nas such get away with murder when it comes to test bikes.\n\nOne way or the other, it was probably worth the early expiration of \none mufler to see a bone head get his butt baked.", "\nNote: BMW doesnt always follow this convention.", "I've caught myself doing it while on my bicycle. Does that count?\n\nDean\n", " I have had good luck with my Ranger and Yokohama 371 S+M tires.\n The tires have been wearing well and even the few times i have hauled\n heavy loads they have done well. \n", "PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND DIRECTLY TO THIS ACCOUNT\n\nFOR SALE:\n\nBlue 1984 Toyota pickup truck with white blazer topper, AM/FM/Casette,\nA/C, cruise control. Great for camping trips.\n\nNew: brakes, master brake cylinder, Michelin tires, shocks,\nmaintenance free battery, clutch, windshield wipers.\n\nWell maintained with all Toyota parts (all repairs done at the\ndealers.) Very little rust, body in good shape. \n\n126K miles\n\nAsking $2800. If interested, please contact:\n\n Ursula Fritsch\n umf@gene.com\n (415)-347-6813\n\n\t PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND DIRECTLY TO THIS ACCOUNT\n", " THis is from the same people who make the claim that our minivan is outsellin\ntheirs.... implying that the Nissan Quest/ Murcury Villager are out-selling\nthe Chrysler mini-vans.... not only is this not true at all, but it was a stupid\nclaim to make... the commercial was part of the introduction campaign for the \nvans. Kind of a bold statement to make when you haven't even sold one yet, eh?\n", "3500 miles, black leather tank bra, tank bag, Corbin seat, Metzler 'B'\ntires. Garaged and pampered. I can't afford to continue paying NYC garage\nfees for two bikes so one of 'em has to go.\n\nBest offer above $4500 takes it.\n", "\nWell, the MGB is currently in production for the English market, built\nby Rover. It now has a V8, improved suspention, and a slightly\nupdated body. Too bad it's only available in GB and would set one\nof us back about $42,000+.\n\n ", ": My 83 Nighthawk has two (related?) problems with the ignition system:\n: \n: - it won't start when on cold mornings ( 10 C, 50 F or so)\n: - I always need to give it gas when starting it, even when using\n: the clutch.\n: \n: This all still happens after a tune-up and a new battery, \n: any ideas on what could be wrong with the bike?\n\nI think you have the choke (starter) jet blocked and even the idle one.", "\n\tOnly on the FRONT wheel. Use the lever on the right\n\thandlebar to accomplish this.\n\n\t\t\t\tMichael", "I am looking for recommendations for a good (great?) Alfa Romeo\nmechanic in South Jersey or Philadelphia or nearby.\n\nI have a '78 Alfa Spider that needs some engine, tranny, steering work\ndone. The body is in quite good shape. The car is awful in cold\nweather, won't start if below freezing (I know, I know, why drive a\nSpider if there's snow on the ground ...). It has Bosch *mechanical*\nfuel injection that I am sure needs adjustment.\n\nAny opinions are welcome on what to look for or who to call.\n\nEmail or post (to rec.autos), I will summarize if people want.", "\n\nbig Capacitor :-) Real Big capacitor.", "Is there a way to wax out a dull finish (minor scrathes)? While\n\"passngering\" on my fiance's Bandit, my hip-pack rubbed against the tail\nand left a nasty dull finish and teeny scratches. Is there a way to get\nrid of these? Buff them out? Wax them out?\nhelp!", "\nCONGRAULATIONS !!!! Your helmet just passed the Snell Test.\n \n\nOh well, as least it looks ok now. Still, it may not save your head as well\nas before you dropped it.\n\nMike", "\n\nI'd like to see you use this method on a couple of semi drivers. If they see you,\nthey usually acknowledge by sticking their hand out the window with their middle\nfinger extended. Because it is also obvious to them that there is no clear lane\nahead. \n\n", "\n\nBoy, Travis..\n\nWere you LUCKY!!.. you went under the new Texas Rangers\nStealth Patrol Car! Good thing you slowed down!", "\n\n\n\nWell, yes, the exhaust is where the majority of the noise comes out, but the\nbasics (tone, firing cadence, etc.) are determined by the engine configuration.\nIn the case of the Viper, yes, we are discussing a HUGE multicylinder 90-deg.\nengine, which will sound somewhat like a truck. And my understanding, btw, is\nthat that V-10 engine was designed originally with the intention of being ad-\naptible for either the trucks or the Viper. And from what I've heard (no first\nhand knowledge :-( ) it's doing a pretty good job at both.\n\nAnd the best exhaust sound in the world is now and will always be a 60-degree\nDOHC Colombo-designed V-12. Period.", "I'm thinking of buying a new Dodge Intrepid - Has anyone had any\nexperiences that they'd like to share?\n\nThanks.", "What worked for me on my RD350 was to lean towards the dog as I modulated\nthrottle to keep my ankle just ahead of his teeth. After a few seconds of\nwarm pipe firmly wedged on his shoulder he turned his face sideways to see\nwhat was so warm and got his mouth/nose/muzzle burned on the pipes. One\nyip and he veered away, never to chase me again.\n", "\n\n-> Without the key, though, the steering column 'lock' would have to be\n-> sacrificed.\n\nNot necessarily. Maybe some sort of servo lock or something along those\nlines could be used to acheive the same effect. Maybe a solenoid type of\nthing too.\n\nGeorge Howell", "\nGermans are just more organised; you can't blitz all of Europe in a\nmatter of , what, 9 months, unless you're pretty organised. If we tried\nthat, there'd just be a whole bunch of tanks backed up at the border,\nwaiting for some jerk in the right lane trying to get over to make a\nleft turn.\n\n\"This, of course, caused Germany to invade Belgium. One of the important\nlessons of history is that anything, including late afternoon\nthundershowers, will cause Germany to invade Belgium.\"\n--Dave Barry\n\nHappy Motoring!\n\nJMR\n\n'93 SL2, blue-green", "\n\n\nBack to the F1 stuff for a second, note that the `auto' tranny in F1\n_STILL_ shifts at the driver's command, not some preselected schedule. The\ndriver still controls the shifting, not the transmission. \n\n\n ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nI have yet to see a torque multiplier installed on a production automobile. \nSuch systems do exist, but none are presently installed in production autos\nthat I am aware of. These are commonly called viscous drive CVTs or\nfluidic amplifiers. \n\n\nWhat the convertor _does_ allow is for the engine to be closer to its\ntorque peak during the launch before a clutched car can fully engage it's\ndriveline. Chevy proved it many years ago with the '70 Camaro (ETs and\nterminal 1/4 mile times were close enough tpo be identical for 4 speed and\nauto cars). Note that this is also the major reason that an auto car can\nget away with fewer gears than a manual, the slip in the convertor makes up\nfor the fewer ratios (and before everyone starts yelling about the proposed\n5 sspeed autos soon to be out, note that some manufacturers are using 6\nspeed manulas now). \n\n\nCorrect.", "\nNo no no!!! It's a squid! Keep the tradition alive! (Kinda like the\nfish at UNH games....)", "\nDetectors are legal in Alberta, the old law was overturned a long time ago.\n\n--", " \n\n\nThis is not good advice. A couple of years I was involved in a low-speed\ngetoff in which I landed on my back on the pavement. My head (helmeted)\nhit the pavement with a \"clunk\", leaving a couple of dings and chips in the\npaint at the point of impact, but no other visible damage. I called the\nhelmet manufacturer and inquired about damage. They said that the way a\nfiberglass shell works is to first give, then delaminate, then crack.\nThis is the way fiberglass serves to spread the force of the impact over a\nwider area. After the fiberglass has done its thing, the crushable foam\nliner takes care of absorbing (hopefully) the remaining impact force.\nThey told me that the second stage of fiberglass functionality (delamination\nof the glass/resin layers) can occur with NO visible signs, either inside or\noutside of the helmet. They suggested that I send them the helmet and they\nwould inspect it (including X-raying). I did so. They sent back the helmet\nwith a letter stating that that they could find no damage that would\ncompromise the ability of the helmet to provide maximum protection.\n(I suspect that this letter would eliminate their being able to claim\nprior damage to the helmet in the event I were to sue them.)\n\nThe bottom line, though, is that it appears that a helmets integrity\ncan be compromised with no visible signs. The only way to know for sure\nis to send it back and have it inspected. Note that some helmet\nmanufacturers provide inspections services and some do not. Another point\nto consider when purchasing a lid.\n", "I was curious as to what people thought of the VW Corrado VR6?\nThat's about it...", "I went to a place called American Car Care Centers to check my car for A/C\nleak. After \"checking\", I was told that there is a leak in the compressor\nseal. At the end, in addition to the labor for the check, I was charged 12\ndollars for a pound of freon, although they evacuated my A/C afterwards\nbecause of the leak. First, is it fair for him to charge me for a pound of\nfreon ($12 plus tax) ? Second, what can I do about this if this is unfair ?", "\n\tSpray the chain wax onto the rollers and sideplates occassionally, and\nrust will not be a problem.\n\nLater,", "Re: Rubbing Compound....\n\n\nYou mean Meguire's* didn't work?\n\n\n\n* THE DOD magic elixir of choice for plastic stuff\n", "]it would be a shame to split boxer riders between different lists\n]unless, of course, the existing list failed to meet the readers'\n]needs.\n\nnowhere did I see you mention K bikes, which, being made by BMW, are \nwelcome on my list. in fact, you go out of your way to say:\n\n \"most all boxer talk is welcome\"\n\nyour list appears to cater to boxers. that's great. my list caters to\nBMW's, *without any restrictions* like you have. considering that the\nsubscription count went to 29 within 18 hours of my initial post about\nthe list (which was made around 10:00pm just before I went to bed), I'd \nsay that there is a need for a *BMW* list as opposed to just a GS boxer \nlist.\n\nmy motivation for setting up the BMW list came from an earlier post of \nyours announcing your boxer list. it didn't fit my needs.\n\nok, we've pissed on each other's list. let's get back to the regular\nnet.noise and read our respective lists.\n", "This is a periodic posting intended to answer the Frequently Asked\nQuestion: What is the DoD? It is posted the first of each month, with\nan expiration time of over a month. Thus, unless your site's news\nsoftware is ill-mannered, this posting should always be available.\nThis WitDoDFAQ is crossposted to all four rec.motorcycles groups in an\nattempt to catch most new users, and followups are directed to\nrec.motorcycles.\n\nLast changed 9-Feb-93 to add a message from the KotL, and a bit of\nHalon.\n\n\t\t\tVERSION 1.1\n\nThis collection was originally assembled by Lissa Shoun, from the\noriginal postings. With Lissa's permission, I have usurped the title of\nKotWitDoDFAQ. Any corrections, additions, bribes, etc. should be aimed at\nblgardne@javelin.sim.es.com.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nContents:\nHow do I get a DoD number?\tby Blaine Gardner\tDoD #46\nDoD \"Road Rider\" article\tby Bruce Tanner\t\tDoD #161\nWhat is the DoD?\t\tby John Sloan\t\tDoD #11\nThe DoD Logo\t\t\tby Chuck Rogers\t\tDoD #3\nThe DoD (this started it all)\tby The Denizen of Doom\tDoD #1\nThe DoD Anthem\t\t\tby Jonathan Quist\tDoD #94\nWhy you have to be killed\tby Blaine Gardner\tDoD #46\nThe rec.moto.photo.archive\tcourtesy of Bruce Tanner DoD #161\nPatches? What patches?\t\tby Blaine Gardner\tDoD #46\nLetter from the AMA museum by Jim Rogers, Director DoD #395\nThe DoD Rules\t\t\tby consensus\nOther rec.moto resources\tby various Keepers\tDoD #misc\nThe rec.moto.reviews.archive\tcourtesy of Loki Jorgenson DoD #1210\nUpdated stats & rides info\tby Ed Green (DoD #111) and others\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\t\t\tHow do I get a DoD number?\n\nIf the most Frequently Asked Question in rec.motorcycles is \"What is the\nDoD?\", then the second most Frequently Asked Question must be \"How do I\nget a DoD number?\" That is as simple as asking the Keeper of the List\n(KotL, accept no substitue Keepers) for a number. If you're feeling\ncreative, and your favorite number hasn't been taken already, you can\nmake a request, subject to KotL approval. (Warning, non-numeric, non-\nbase-10 number requests are likely to earn a flame from the KotL. Not\nthat you won't get it, but you _will_ pay for it.)\n\nOh, and just one little, tiny suggestion. Ask the KotL in e-mail. You'll\njust be playing the lightning rod for flames if you post to the whole\nnet, and you'll look like a clueless newbie too.\n\nBy now you're probably asking \"So who's the KotL already?\". Well, as\nJohn Sloan notes below, that's about the only real \"secret\" left around\nhere, but a few (un)subtle hints can be divulged. First, it is not myself,\nnor anyone mentioned by name in this posting (maybe :-), though John was\nthe original KotL. Second, in keeping with the true spirit of Unix, the\nKotL's first name is only two letters long, and can be spelled entirely\nwith hexadecimal characters. (2.5, the KotL shares his name with a line-\noriented text utility.) Third, he has occasionally been seen posting\nmessages bestowing new DoD numbers (mostly to boneheads with \"weenie\nmailers\"). Fourth, there is reason to suspect the KotL of being a\nDead-Head.\n\n***************** Newsflash: A message from the KotL ******************\n\nOnce you have surmounted this intellectual pinnacle and electronically\ngroveled to the KotL, please keep in mind that the KotL does indeed\nwork for a living, and occasionally must pacify its boss by getting\nsomething done. Your request may languish in mailer queue for (gasp!)\ndays, perhaps even (horrors!) a week or two. During such times of\neconomic activity on the part of the KotL's employers, sending yet\nanother copy of your request will not speed processing of the queue (it\njust makes it longer, verification of this phenominon is left as an\nexcersize for the reader). If you suspect mailer problems, at least\nannotate subsequent requests with an indication that a former request\nwas submitted, lest you be assigned multiple numbers (what, you think\nthe KotL *memorizes* the list?!?).\n\n***********************************************************************\n\nOne more thing, the KotL says that its telepathic powers aren't what\nthey used to be. So provide some information for the list, will ya?\nThe typical DoD List entry contains number, name, state/country, &\ne-mail address. For example:\n\n0111:Ed Green:CA:ed.green@East.Sun.COM\n\n(PS: While John mentions below that net access and a bike are the only\nrequirements for DoD membership, that's not strictly true these days, as\nthere are a number of Denizens who lack one or both.)\n\nBlaine (Dances With Bikers) Gardner blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n \"Denizens of Doom\", by Bruce Tanner (DoD 0161)\n\n [Road Rider, August 1991, reprinted with Bruce's permission]\n\nThere is a group of motorcyclists that gets together and does all the normal \nthings that a bunch of bikers do. They discuss motorcycles and \nmotorcycling, beverages, cleaning fluids, baklavah, balaclava, caltrops, \nhelmets, anti-fog shields, spine protectors, aerodynamics, three-angle valve\nseats, bird hits, deer whistles, good restaurants, racing philosophy, \ntraffic laws, tickets, corrosion control, personalities, puns, double \nentendres, culture, absence of culture, first rides and friendship. They \nargue with each other and plan rides together.\n\nThe difference between this group and your local motorcycle club is that, \nalthough they get together just about everyday, most have never seen each \nother face to face. The members of this group live all over the known world \nand communicate with each other electronically via computer.\n\nThe computers range from laptops to multi-million dollar computer centers; \nthe people range from college and university students to high-tech industry \nprofessionals to public-access electronic bulletin-board users. Currently, \nrec.motorcycles (pronounced \"wreck-dot-motorcycles,\" it's the file name for \nthe group's primary on-line \"meeting place\") carries about 2250 articles per \nmonth; it is read by an estimated 29,000 people. Most of the frequent \nposters belong to a motorcycle club, the Denizens of Doom, usually referred \nto as the DoD.\n\nThe DoD started when motorcyclist John R. Nickerson wrote a couple of \nparodies designed to poke fun at motorcycle stereotypes. Fellow computer \nenthusiast Bruce Robinson posted these articles under the pen name, \"Denizen \nof Doom.\" A while later Chuck Rogers signed off as DoD nr. 0003 Keeper of \nthe Flame. Bruce was then designated DoD nr. 0002, retroactively and, of \ncourse, Nickerson, the originator of the parodies, was given DoD nr. 0001.\n\nThe idea of a motorcycle club with no organization, no meetings and no rules \nappealed to many, so John Sloan -- DoD nr. 0011 -- became Keeper of the \nList, issuing DoD numbers to anyone who wanted one. To date there have been \nalmost 400 memberships issued to people all over the United States and \nCanada, as well as Australia, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, France, \nGermany, Norway and Finland.\n\nKeeper of the List Sloan eventually designed a club patch. The initial run \nof 300 patches sold out immediately. The profits from this went to the \nAmerican Motorcycle Heritage Foundation. Another AMHF fund raiser -- \nselling Denizens of Doom pins to members -- was started by Arnie Skurow a \nfew months later. Again, the project was successful and the profits were \ndonated to the foundation. So far, the Denizens have contributed over $1500 \nto the AMA museum. A plaque in the name of the Denizens of Doom now hangs \nin the Motorcycle Heritage Museum.\n\nAs often as possible, the DoD'ers crawl out from behind their CRTs and go \nriding together. It turns out that the two largest concentrations of \nDoD'ers are centered near Denver/Boulder, Colorado, and in California's \n\"Silicon Valley.\" Consequently, two major events are the annual Assault on \nRollins Pass in Colorado, and the Northern versus Southern California \n\"Joust.\"\n\nThe Ride-and-Feed is a bike trip over Rollins Pass, followed by a big \nbarbecue dinner. The concept for the Joust is to have riders from Northern \nCalifornia ride south; riders from Southern California to ride north, \nmeeting at a predesignated site somewhere in the middle. An additional plan \nfor 1991 is to hold an official Denizens of Doom homecoming in conjunction \nwith the AMA heritage homecoming in Columbus, Ohio, in July.\n\nThough it's a safe bet the the Denizens of Doom and their collective \ncommunications hub, rec.motorcycles, will not replace the more traditional \nmotorcycle organizations, for those who prowl the electronic pathways in \nsearch of two-wheeled camaraderie, it's a great way for kindred spirits to \nget together. Long may they flame.\n\n\n\"Live to Flame -- Flame to Live\"\t[centerbar]\n\nThis official motto of the Denizens of Doom refers to the ease with which \nyou can gratuitously insult someone electronically, when you would not do \nanything like that face to face. These insults are known as \"flames\"; \nissuing them is called \"flaming.\" Flames often start when a member \ndisagrees with something another member has posted over the network. A \ntypical, sophisticated, intelligent form of calm, reasoned rebuttal would be \nsomething like: \"What an incredibly stupid statement, you Spandex-clad \nposeur!\" This will guarantee that five other people will reply in defense \nof the original poster, describing just what they think of you, your riding \nability and your cat.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n _The Denizens of Doom: The Saga Unfolds_\n\n by John Sloan DoD #0011\n\nPeriodically the question \"What is DoD?\" is raised. This is one of\nthose questions in the same class as \"Why is the sky blue?\", \"If there\nis a God, why is there so much suffering in the world?\" and \"Why do\nwomen inevitably tell you that you're such a nice guy just before they\ndump you?\", the kinds of questions steeped in mysticism, tradition,\nand philosophy, questions that have inspired research and discussion\nby philosophers in locker rooms, motorcycle service bays, and in the\nhalls of academe for generations. \n\nA long, long time ago (in computer time, where anything over a few\nminutes is an eternity and the halting problem really is a problem) on\na computer far, far away on the net (topologically speaking; two\nmachines in the same room in Atlanta might route mail to one another\nvia a system in Chicago), a chap who wished to remain anonymous (but\nwho was eventually assigned the DoD membership #1) wrote a satire of\nthe various personalities and flame wars of rec.motorcycles, and\nsigned it \"The Denizen of Doom\". Not wishing to identify himself, he\nasked that stalwart individual who would in the fullness of time\nbecome DoD #2 to post it for him. DoD #2, not really giving a whit\nabout what other people thought and generally being a right thinking\nindividual, did so. Flaming and other amusements followed. \n\nHe who would become the holder of DoD membership #3 thought this was\nthe funniest thing he'd seen in a while (being the sort that is pretty\neasily amused), so he claimed membership in the Denizens of Doom\nMotorcycle Club, and started signing his postings with his membership\nnumber. \n\nPerhaps readers of rec.motorcycles were struck with the vision of a\nmotorcycle club with no dues, no rules, no restrictions as to brand or\nmake or model or national origin of motorcycle, a club organized\nelectronically. It may well be that readers were yearning to become a\npart of something that would provide them with a greater identity, a\ngestalt personality, something in which the whole was greater than the\nsum of its parts. It could also be that we're all computer nerds who\nwear black socks and sneakers and pocket protectors, who just happen\nto also love taking risks on machines with awesome power to weight\nratios, social outcasts who saw a clique that would finally be open\nminded enough to accept us as members. \n\nIn a clear case of self fulfilling prophesy, The Denizens of Doom\nMotorcycle Club was born. A club in which the majority of members have\nnever met one another face to face (and perhaps like it that way), yet\nfeel that they know one another pretty well (or well enough given some\nof the electronic personalities in the newsgroup). A club organized\nand run (in the loosest sense of the word) by volunteers through the\nnetwork via electronic news and mail, with a membership/mailing list\n(often used to organize group rides amongst members who live in the\nsame region), a motto, a logo, a series of photo albums circulating\naround the country (organized by DoD #9), club patches (organized by\n#11), and even an MTV-style music video (produced by #47 and\ndistributed on VHS by #18)! \n\nWhere will it end? Who knows? Will the DoD start sanctioning races,\nplacing limits on the memory and clock rate of the on-board engine\nmanagement computers? Will the DoD organize poker runs where each\nparticipant collects a hand of hardware and software reference cards?\nWill the DoD have a rally in which the attendees demand a terminal\nroom and at least a 386-sized UNIX system? Only time will tell. \n\nThe DoD has no dues, no rules, and no requirements other than net\naccess and a love for motorcycles. To become a member, one need only\nask (although we will admit that who you must ask is one of the few\nreally good club secrets). New members will receive via email a\nmembership number and the latest copy of the membership list, which\nincludes name, state, and email address. \n\nThe Denizens of Doom Motorcycle Club will live forever (or at least\nuntil next year when we may decided to change the name). \n\n Live to Flame - Flame to Live\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n The DoD daemon as seen on the patches, pins, etc. by\n\n\tChuck Rogers, car377@druhi.att.com, DoD #0003\n \n\n :-( DoD )-: \n :-( x __ __ x )-: \n :-( x / / \\ \\ x )-: \n :-( x / / -\\-----/- \\ \\ x )-: \n :-( L | \\/ \\ / \\/ | F )-: \n :-( I | / \\ / \\ | L )-: \n :-( V \\/ __ / __ \\/ A )-: \n :-( E / / \\ / \\ \\ M )-: \n :-( | | \\ / | | E )-: \n :-( T | | . | _ | . | | )-: \n :-( O | \\___// \\\\___/ | T )-: \n :-( \\ \\_/ / O )-: \n :-( F \\___ ___/ )-: \n :-( L \\ \\ / / L )-: \n :-( A \\ vvvvv / I )-: \n :-( M | ( ) | V )-: \n :-( E | ^^^^^ | E )-: \n :-( x \\_______/ x )-: \n :-( x x )-: \n :-( x rec.motorcycles x )-:\n :-( USENET )-:\n\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n The DoD\n\n by the Denizen of Doom DoD #1\n \nWelcome one and all to the flamingest, most wonderfullest newsgroup of\nall time: wreck.mudder-disciples or is it reak.mudder-disciples? The\nNames have been changes to protect the Guilty (riders) and Innocent\n(the bikes) alike. If you think you recognize a contorted version of\nyour name, you don't. It's just your guilt complex working against\nyou. Read 'em and weep. \n\nWe tune in on a conversation between some of our heros. Terrible\nBarbarian is extolling the virtues of his Hopalonga Puff-a-cane to\nReverend Muck Mudgers and Stompin Fueling-Injection: \n\nTerrible: This Hopalonga is the greatest... Beats BMWs dead!! \n\nMuck: I don't mean to preach, Terrible, but lighten up on the BMW\n crowd eh? I mean like I like riding my Yuka-yuka Fudgeo-Jammer\n 11 but what the heck. \n\nStompin: No way, the BMW is it, complete, that's all man.\n\nTerrible: Nahhhh, you're sounding like Heritick Ratatnack! Hey, at\n least he is selling his BMW and uses a Hopalonga Intercorruptor!\n Not as good as a Puff-a-cane, should have been called a\n Woosh-a-stream.\n\nStompin: You mean Wee-Stream.\n\nTerrible: Waddya going to do? Call in reinforcements???\n\nStompin: Yehh man. Here comes Arlow Scarecrow and High Tech. Let's see\n what they say, eh? \n\nMuck: Now men, let's try to be civil about this.\n\nHigh Tech: Hi, I'm a 9 and the BMW is the greatest.\n\nArlow: Other than my B.T. I love my BMW!\n\nTerrible: B.T.???\n\nArlow: Burley Thumpison, the greatest all American ride you can own.\n\nMuck: Ahhh, look, you're making Terrible gag.\n\nTerrible: What does BMW stand for anyway??? \n\nMuck, Arlow, High: Beats Me, Wilhelm.\n\nTerrible: Actually, my name is Terrible. Hmmm, I don't know either.\n\nMuck: Say, here comes Chunky Bear.\n\nChunky: Hey, Hey, Hey! Smarter than your average bear!\n\nTerrible: Hey, didn't you drop your BMW???\n\nChunky: All right eh, a little BooBoo, but I left him behind. I mean \n even Villy Ogle flamed me for that! \n\nMuck: It's okay, we all makes mistakes.\n\nOut of the blue the West coasters arrive, led by Tread Orange with\nDill Snorkssy, Heritick Ratatnack, Buck Garnish, Snob Rasseller and\nthe perenial favorite: Hooter Boobin Brush! \n\nHeritick: Heya Terrible, how's yer front to back bias?\n\nTerrible: Not bad, sold yer BMW?\n\nHeritick: Nahhh.\n\nHooter: Hoot, Hoot.\n\nBuck: Nice tree Hooter, how'd ya get up there?\n\nHooter: Carbujectors from Hell!!!\n\nMuck: What's a carbujector?\n\nHooter: Well, it ain't made of alumican!!! Made by Tilloslert!!\n\nMuck: Ahh, come on down, we aren't going to flame ya, honest!!\n\nDill: Well, where do we race?\n\nSnob: You know, Chunky, we know about about your drop and well, don't\n ride! \n\nMuck: No! No! Quiet!\n\nTread: BMW's are the greatest in my supreme level headed opinion.\n They even have luggage made by Sourkraut!\n\nHigh: My 9 too!\n\nTerrible, Heritick, Dill, Buck: Nahhhhh!!!\n\nStompin, Tread, High, Chunky, Snob: Yesss Yessssss!!!\n\nBefore this issue could be resolved the Hopalonga crew called up more\ncohorts from the local area including Polyanna Stirrup and the\ninfamous Booster Robiksen on his Cavortin! \n\nPolyanna: Well, men, the real bikers use stirrups on their bikes like\n I use on my Hopalonga Evening-Bird Special. Helpful for getting\n it up on the ole ventral stand! \n\nTerrible: Hopalonga's are great like Polyanna says and Yuka-Yuka's and\n Sumarikis and Kersnapis are good too! \n\nBooster: I hate Cavortin.\n\nAll: WE KNOW, WE KNOW.\n\nBooster: I love Cavortin.\n\nAll: WE KNOW WE KNOW.\n\nMuck: Well, what about Mucho Guzlers and Lepurras?\n\nSnob, Tread: Nawwwwww.\n\nMuck: What about a Tridump?\n\nTerrible: Isn't that a chewing gum?\n\nMuck: Auggggg, Waddda about a Pluck-a-kity?\n\nHeritick: Heyya Muck, you tryin' to call up the demon rider himself?\n\nMuck: No, no. There is more to Mudder-Disciples than arguing about make.\n\nTwo more riders zoom in, in the form of Pill Turret and Phalanx Lifter.\nPill: Out with dorsal stands and ventral stands forever.\n\nPhalanx: Hey, I don't know about that.\n\nAnd Now even more west coasters pour in.\nRoad O'Noblin: Hopalonga's are the greatest!\n\nMaulled Beerstein: May you sit on a bikejector!\n\nSuddenly more people arrived from the great dark nurth:\nKite Lanolin: Hey, BMW's are great, men.\n\nRobo-Nickie: I prefer motorcycle to robot transformers, personally.\n\nMore riders from the west coast come into the discussion:\nAviator Sourgas: Get a Burley-Thumpison with a belted-rigged frame.\n\nGuess Gasket: Go with a BMW or Burley-Thumpison.\n\nWith a roar and a screech the latest mudder-disciple thundered in. It\nwas none other that Clean Bikata on her Hopalonga CaBammerXorn. \nClean: Like look, Hopalonga are it but only CaBammerXorns. \n\nMuck: Why??\n\nClean: Well, like it's gotta be a 6-banger or nothin.\n\nMuck: But I only have a 4-banger.\n\nClean: No GOOD!\n\nChunky: Sob, some of us only have 2-bangers!\n\nClean: Inferior!\n\nStompin: Hey, look, here's proof BMW's are better. The Bimmer-Boys\nburst into song: (singing) Beemer Babe, Beemer Babe give me a\nthrill... \n\nRoad, Terrible, Polyanna, Maulled, Dill etc.: Wadddoes BMW stand for? \n\nHeritick, Stompin, Snob, Chunky, Tread, Kite, High, Arlow: BEAT'S ME,\n WILHEM! \n\nRoad, Terrible, Polyanna, Maulled, Dill etc.: Oh, don't you mean BMW? \n\nAnd so the ensuing argument goes until the skies clouded over and the\nthunder roared and the Greatest Mudder-Disciple (G.M.D.) of them all\nboomed out.\nG.M.D.: Enough of your bickering! You are doomed to riding\n Bigot & Suction powered mini-trikes for your childish actions. \n\nAll: no, No, NO!!! Puhlease.\n\nDoes this mean that all of the wreck.mudder-disciples will be riding\nmini-trikes? Are our arguing heros doomed? Tune in next week for the\nnext gut wretching episode of \"The Yearning and Riderless\" with its\never increasing cast of characters. Where all technical problems will\nbe flamed over until well done. Next week's episode will answer the\nquestion of: \"To Helmet or Not to Helmet\" will be aired, this is heady\nmaterial and viewer discretion is advised. \n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n Script for the Denizens of Doom Anthem Video\n\n by Jonathan E. Quist DoD #94\n\n\n[Scene: A sterile engineering office. A lone figure, whom we'll call\nChuck, stands by a printer output bin, wearing a white CDC lab coat,\nwith 5 mechanical pencils in a pocket protector.] \n\n(editor's note: For some reason a great deal of amusement was had at\nthe First Annual DoD Uni-Coastal Ironhorse Ride & Joust by denizens\nreferring to each other as \"Chuck\". I guess you had to be there. I\nwasn't.) \n\nChuck: I didn't want to be a Software Systems Analyst,\n cow-towing to the whims of a machine, and saying yessir, nosir,\n may-I-have-another-sir. My mother made me do it. I wanted\n to live a man's life,\n[Music slowly builds in background]\n riding Nortons and Triumphs through the highest mountain passes\n and the deepest valleys,\n living the life of a Motorcyclist;\n doing donuts and evading the police;\n terrorizing old ladies and raping small children;\n eating small dogs for tea (and large dogs for dinner). In short,\n\n\tI Want to be A Denizen!\n\n[Chuck rips off his lab coat, revealing black leather jacket (with\nfringe), boots, and cap. Scene simultaneously changes to the top of\nan obviously assaulted Rollins Pass. A small throng of Hell's Angels\nsit on their Harleys in the near background, gunning their engines,\nshowering lookers-on with nails as they turn donuts, and leaking oil\non the tarmac. Chuck is standing in front of a heavily chromed Fat\nBoy.] \n\nChuck [Sings to the tune of \"The Lumberjack Song\"]:\n\nI'm a Denizen and I'm okay,\nI flame all night and I ride all day.\n\n[Hell's Angels Echo Chorus, surprisingly heavy on tenors]:\nHe's a Denizen and he's okay,\nHe flames all night and he rides all day.\n\nI ride my bike;\nI eat my lunch;\nI go to the lavat'ry.\nOn Wednesdays I ride Skyline,\nRunning children down with glee.\n\n[Chorus]:\nHe rides his bike;\nHe eats his lunch;\nHe goes to the lavat'ry.\nOn Wednesdays he rides Skyline,\nRunning children down with glee.\n\n[Chorus refrain]:\n'Cause He's a Denizen...\n\nI ride real fast,\nMy name is Chuck,\nIt somehow seems to fit.\nI over-rate the worst bad f*ck,\nBut like a real good sh*t.\n\nOh, I'm a Denizen and I'm okay!\nI flame all night and I ride all day.\n\n[Chorus refrain]:\nOh, He's a Denizen...\n\nI wear high heels\nAnd bright pink shorts,\n full leathers and a bra.\nI wish I rode a Harley,\n just like my dear mama.\n\n[Chorus refrain]\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n Why you have to be killed.\n\nWell, the first thing you have to understand (just in case you managed\nto read this far, and still not figure it out) is that the DoD started\nas a joke. And in the words of one Denizen, it intends to remain one.\n\nSometime in the far distant past, a hapless newbie asked: \"What does DoD\nstand for? It's not the Department of Defense is it?\" Naturally, a\nDenizen who had watched the movie \"Top Gun\" a few times too many rose\nto the occasion and replied:\n\n\"That's classified, we could tell you, but then we'd have to kill you.\"\n\nAnd the rest is history.\n\nA variation on the \"security\" theme is to supply disinformation about\nwhat DoD stands for. Notable contributions (and contributers, where\nknown) include:\n\nDaughters of Democracy (DoD 23)\t\tDoers of Donuts\nDancers of Despair (DoD 9)\t\tDebasers of Daughters\nDickweeds of Denver\t\t\tDriveway of Death\nDebauchers of Donuts\t\t\tDumpers of Dirtbikes\n\nNote that this is not a comprehensive list, as variations appear to be\nlimited only by the contents of one's imagination or dictionary file.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n The rec.moto.photo archive\n\nFirst a bit of history, this all started with Ilana Stern and Chuck\nRogers organizing a rec.motorcycles photo album. Many copies were made,\nand several sets were sent on tours around the world, only to vanish in\nunknown locations. Then Bruce Tanner decided that it would be appropriate\nfor an electronic medium to have an electronic photo album. Bruce has not\nonly provided the disk space and ftp & e-mail access, but he has taken\nthe time to scan most of the photos that are available from the archive.\n\nNot only can you see what all these folks look like, you can also gawk\nat their motorcycles. A few non-photo files are available from the\nserver too, they include the DoD membership list, the DoD Yellow Pages,\nthe general rec.motorcycles FAQ, and this FAQ posting.\n\nHere are a couple of excerpts from from messages Bruce posted about how\nto use the archive.\n\n**********************************************************\n\nVia ftp:\n\ncerritos.edu [130.150.200.21]\n\nVia e-mail:\n\nThe address is server@cerritos.edu. The commands are given in the body of the\nmessage. The current commands are DIR and SEND, given one per line. The\narguments to the commands are VMS style file specifications. For\nrec.moto.photo the file spec is [DOD]file. For example, you can send:\n\ndir [dod]\nsend [dod]bruce_tanner.gif\nsend [dod]dodframe.ps\n\nand you'll get back 5 mail messages; a directory listing, 3 uuencoded parts\nof bruce_tanner.gif, and the dodframe.ps file in ASCII.\n\nOh, wildcards (*) are allowed, but a maximum of 20 mail messages (rounded up to\nthe next whole file) are send. A 'send [dod]*.gif' would send 150 files of\n50K each; not a good idea.\n-- \nBruce Tanner (213) 860-2451 x 596 Tanner@Cerritos.EDU\nCerritos College Norwalk, CA cerritos!tanner\n\n**********************************************************\n\nA couple of comments: Bruce has put quite a bit of effort into this, so\nwhy not drop him a note if you find the rec.moto.photo archive useful?\nSecond, since Bruce has provided the server as a favor, it would be kind\nof you to access it after normal working hours (California time). \n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n Patches? What patches?\n\nYou may have heard mention of various DoD trinkets such as patches &\npins. And your reaction was probably: \"I want!\", or \"That's sick!\", or\nperhaps \"That's sick! I want!\"\n\nWell, there's some good news and some bad news. The good news is that\nthere's been an amazing variety of DoD-labeled widgets created. The bad\nnews is that there isn't anywhere you can buy any of them. This isn't\nbecause of any \"exclusivity\" attempt, but simply because there is no\n\"DoD store\" that keeps a stock. All of the creations have been done by\nindividual Denizens out of their own pockets. The typical procedure is\nsomeone says \"I'm thinking of having a DoD frammitz made, they'll cost\n$xx.xx, with $xx.xx going to the AMA museum. Anyone want one?\" Then\norders are taken, and a batch of frammitzes large enough to cover the\npre-paid orders is produced (and quickly consumed). So if you want a\nDoD doodad, act quickly the next time somebody decides to do one. Or\nproduce one yourself if you see a void that needs filling, after all\nthis is anarchy in action.\n\nHere's a possibly incomplete list of known DoD merchandise (and\nperpetrators). Patches (DoD#11), pins (DoD#99), stickers (DoD#99),\nmotorcycle license plate frames (DoD#216), t-shirts (DoD#99), polo shirts\n(DoD#122), Zippo lighters (DoD#99) [LtF FtL], belt buckles (DoD#99), and\npatches (DoD#99) [a second batch was done (and rapidly consumed) by\npopular demand].\n\nAll \"profits\" have been donated to the American Motorcyclist Association\nMotorcycle Heritage Museum. As of June 1992, over $5500 dollars has been\ncontributed to the museum fund by the DoD. If you visit the museum,\nyou'll see a large plaque on the Founders' Wall in the name of \"Denizens\nof Doom, USENET, The World\", complete with a DoD pin.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nHere's a letter from the AMA to the DoD regarding our contributions.\n\n~Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles\n~From: Arnie Skurow \n~Subject: A letter from the Motorcycle Heritage Museum\n~Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 11:04:58 GMT\n\nI received the following letter from Jim Rogers, director of the Museum,\nthe other day.\n\n\"Dear Arnie and all members of the Denizens of Doom:\n\nCongratulations and expressions of gratitude are in order for you and the\nDenizens of Doom! With your recent donation, the total amount donated is\nnow $5,500. On behalf of the AMHF, please extend my heartfeld gratitude\nto all the membership of the Denizens. The club's new plaque is presently\nbeing prepared. Of course, everyone is invited to come to the museum to \nsee the plaque that will be installed in our Founders Foyer. By the way,\nI will personally mount a Denizens club pin on the plaque. Again, thank \nyou for all your support, which means so much to the foundation, the\nmuseum, and the fulfillment of its goals.\n\n Sincerely,\n\n\n Jim Rogers, D.O.D. #0395\n Director\n\nP.S. Please post on your computer bulletin board.\"\n\nAs you all know, even though the letter was addressed to me personally,\nit was meant for all of you who purchased DoD goodies that made this\namount possible.\n\nArnie\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nThe Rules, Regulations, & Bylaws of the Denizens of Doom Motorcycle Club\n\nFrom time to time there is some mention, discussion, or flame about the\nrules of the DoD. In order to fan the flames, here is the complete text\nof the rules governing the DoD.\n\n\t\t\tRule #1. There are no rules.\n\t\t\tRule #0. Go ride.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n\t\tOther rec.motorcycles information resources.\n\nThere are several general rec.motorcycles resources that may or may not\nhave anything to do with the DoD. Most are posted on a regular basis,\nbut they can also be obtained from the cerritos ftp/e-mail server (see\nthe info on the photo archive above).\n\nA general rec.motorcycles FAQ is maintained by Dave Williams.\nCerritos filenames are FAQn.TXT, where n is currently 1-5.\n\nThe DoD Yellow Pages, a listing of motorcycle industry vendor phone\nnumbers & addresses, is maintained by bob pakser.\nCerritos filename is YELLOW_PAGES_Vnn, where n is the rev. number.\n\nThe List of the DoD membership is maintained by The Keeper of the List.\nCerritos filename is DOD.LIST.\n\nThis WitDoD FAQ (surprise, surprise!) is maintained by yours truly.\nCerritos filename is DOD_FAQ.TXT.\n\nAdditions, corrections, etc. for any of the above should be aimed at\nthe keepers of the respective texts.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n(Loki Jorgenson loki@Physics.McGill.CA) has provided an archive site\nfor motorcycle and accessory reviews, here's an excerpt from his\nperiodic announcement.\n\n**********************************************************\n\n\tThe Rec.Motorcycles.Reviews Archives (and World Famous Llama\n Emporium) contains a Veritable Plethora (tm) of bike (and accessories)\n reviews, written by rec.moto readers based on their own experiences.\n These invaluable gems of opinion (highly valued for their potential to\n reduce noise on the list) can be accessed via anonymous FTP, Email\n server or by personal request:\n\n Anonymous FTP:\t\tftp.physics.mcgill.ca (132.206.9.13)\n\t\t\t\t\tunder ~ftp/pub/DoD\n Email archive server:\t\trm-reviews@ftp.physics.mcgill.ca\n Review submissions/questions:\trm-reviews@physics.mcgill.ca\n\n NOTE: There is a difference in the addresses for review submission\n and using the Email archive server (ie. an \"ftp.\").\n\n To get started with the Email server, send an Email message with a line\n containing only \"send help\". \n\n NOTE: If your return address appears like\n\tdomain!subdomain!host!username\n in your mail header, include a line like (or something similar)\n\tpath username@host.subdomain.domain \n\n\tIf you are interested in submitting a review of a bike that you\n already own(ed), PLEASE DO! There is a template of the format that the\n reviews are kept in (more or less) available at the archive site .\n For those who have Internet access but are unsure of how anonymous\n FTP works, an example script is available on request.\n\n**********************************************************\n\nReviews of any motorcycle related accessory or widget are welcome too.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n Updated stats & rec.motorcycles rides info\n\nSome of the info cited above in various places tends to be a moving\ntarget. Rather than trying to catch every occurence, I'm just sticking\nthe latest info down here.\n\nEstimated rec.motorcycles readership: 35K [news.groups]\n \nApproximate DoD Membership: 975 [KotL]\n\nDoD contributions to the American Motorcyclist Association Motorcycle\nHeritage Museum. Over $5500 [Arnie]\n \n Organized (?) Rides:\n\nSummer 1992 saw more organized rides, with the Joust in its third\nyear, and the Ride & Feed going strong, but without the Rollins Pass\ntrip due to the collapse of a tunnel. The East Coast Denizens got\ntogether for the Right Coast Ride (RCR), with bikers from as far north\nas NH, and as far south as FL meeting in the Blueridge Mountains of\nNorth Carolina. The Pacific Northwest crew organized the first Great\nPacific Northwest Dryside Gather (GPNDG), another successful excuse for\nriding motorcycles, and seeing the faces behind the names we all have\ncome to know so well. [Thanks to Ed Green for the above addition.]\n\nAlso worth mentioning are: The first rec.moto.dirt ride, held in the\nMoab/Canyonlands area of southern Utah. Riders from 5 states showed up,\nriding everything from monster BMWs to itty-bitty XRs to almost-legal\n2-strokes. And though it's not an \"official\" (as if anything could be\nofficial with this crowd) rec.moto event, the vintage motorcycle races\nin Steamboat Springs, Colorado always provides a good excuse for netters\nto gather. There's also been the occasional Labor Day gather in Utah.\nEuropean Denizens have staged some gathers too. (Your ad here,\nreasonable rates!)\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n-- \nBlaine Gardner @ Evans & Sutherland 580 Arapeen Drive, SLC, Utah 84108\n blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com BIX: blaine_g@bix.com FJ1200\nHalf of my vehicles and all of my computers are Kickstarted. DoD#46", "\n I would suggest you take the car to the nearest Chevron dealer, with\nyour own oil and filter. Ask for an oil change. It will cost less\nthan $10. Watch him/her do it. Just from watching someone do a job,\nyou will be able to learn and remember the sequence, and do it right\nwhen you do it yourself the next time. Besides, when he/she loosens\nthe drain nut, the next time around it will be easier for you.\n\n If it is stuck, use an impact wrench. Not too much force though.\nUse a new washer each time you put the nut back.....", "\nSure. It has caused my wife to conclude that I am totally insane, not just\npartially:-}\n\nUsually I just lift the left hand off the wheel and wave thru the\nwindshield. Damn near the same motion as on the bike:-}\n\n tom coradeschi <+> tcora@pica.army.mil", "\nThis must be the standard strategy that is taught, cuz that's what they told\nme to do in my Illinois MSF class. It works well, only you don't get the\nsatisfaction of kicking the shit out of some rabid hell-beast.", "**************************\n 1983 Nissan Sentra\n **************************\n\no two door hatchback\no red\no am/fm cassette\no lots of new parts, well maintained\no very clean, inside and out\no looks and runs great\no $2000/bo\n\nBob or Tracy at 510-540-8795", "\nGee, then I guess the extra horn that's mounted in the floor of some SDPD cars,\nfiring at the ground at a shallow angle, is just for show, huh?\n\n(For calibration, they simply turn off one horn or the other.) ", "Hi boys and girls. I just bought a Beemer R80GS and realized abruptly that \nI am a grad student. I first sold my truck yesterday but I need to sell my \nZephyr too.\n\nIf I can sell it this month, great ... insurance and tags both run out in\na couple of weeks. Otherwise I'll tag and insure it and see what happens.\n\nIt's a very sweet bike. 6100 miles, almost all highway (AZ-WY-CO last summer,\nplus some great rides between here and the Border. Purchased new exactly\none year ago (Apr '92), it's a '90 model. It has a good fairing and a\nluggage rack. Red; very clean. Perfect maintenance, no bullshit. I'll spare\nany further details other than to say (1) I want to keep it, and (2) somebody\n5'7\" +/- 5\" will fit it like a charm. Not a bike for big people, but not a\nsmall bike. Standard, upright positioning and good-looking. Smooth power,\ngreat brakes, good Karma.\n\n\t\t\t\t- Erik", "Hello again, another question. :)\n\nI just got my hands on 2 quarts of ReadLine Gear Oil (at $7 a quart)\nnow I need to know how to throw it into my car.\n\nI own an 89 NIssan Maxima Se, any Ideas?\nCan I mix the Oil in there with this stuff, or should I drain first, then\n\tonly use this stuff.\nIf you know where (if there is one) the drain plug on the manual transmission\n\ton the Maxima is, I would really appreciate any comments.\nAlso have any of you Maxima owners, thied this stuff in your cars?", "Paraphrase of initial post:\n\n\tCan I fight a speeding ticket in court?\n\nMy reply:\n\n Fight your ticket : California edition by David Brown 1st ed.\n Berkeley, CA : Nolo Press, 1982\n\nThe second edition is out (but not in UCB's library). Good luck; let\nus know how it goes.", "If you want to try a non-toxic solvent, there's one made of citrus that \nworks very well and doesn't take your skin off in the process. One brand \nname I've used is Citra-Solve, but there are others too.\n", "If your buying a compact pickup do yourself a favor and wait a few months\nfor the 1994 GMC sonoma. Magazines are saying it is day and night over the\ncurrent truck. It's georgeous, solid, and fast (200hp Vortec 4.3 V-6).\nShould whip the Ranger in every area too (accept maybe payload). And always\npick a GMC over a Chevy. GMC's are always so much better looking. Man, I \nmiss the Comanche.\n\nMarty and Matt Owings\n'87 250 ninja type rider dudes\n\n\"It's a feeling that we all wanna know\nand it's an obsession to some\nto keep the world in you rearview mirror\nwhile you try to run down the sun\"", "\n\tWhat you are trying to describe is that transition point where\n\tthe front wheel actually reverses direction; turns backwards.", "To follow-up, I had a bad experience w/ a Krypto Lock too...\n\nLast year I bought a Krypto Cable II (3/8\"x3-4' long, something like that)\nthat by all standards seemed like a decent piece. Until I used it anyway...\nBefore I ever used it for security purposes, I used it for entertainment\n(minds out of the gutter, please), which is to say that I sat fiddling w/\nit while watching TV (the night I got it). After three minutes of mindless\nfiddling (of course it was mindless, remember I was watching TV) the entire\ntumbler mechanism came out on the key! Not unlike that old Georgie-porgie\nnursery rhyme. This left a very empty cylinder and a very non-secure \n(read \"swingin' in the breeze\") cable lock.\nKinda makes me wonder about any flat key-style lock. One yank w/ a \nslide-hammer and Viola-- I'm making an insurance claim.\n\nAnyone else have a similar experience (w/ the Kryptos, not bike theft)?", "\n\"traction control\" as far as the optional feature that one buys with\ncars is not the same thing at all as a torque sensing differential.\n\na torque sensing differential is a type of LSD, but not all LSD's\nare torque sensing. viscous coupled differentials (as opposed to\nviscous couplings) are rotational sensing, not torque sensing.\nfor that matter, so are \"traction control\" systems that use ABS\nsensors and pulse braking.\n\nthen there are the older posi-tracs and whatever which i am not\nfamiliar with the workings.\n", "\nFunny, I thought the numbering scheme for both Lexus and Infiniti was\nrelated to sticker price more than anything else, i.e. Infiniti G20 (around\n20K), Q45 (around 45K), Lexus ES250 (RIP) (around 25K), Lexus ES300 (around\n30K), etc.\n\nIs there a conspiracy theory there? \n\nSpiros", "Does anybody have any information on the second generation Broncos? (I'm\nnot talking about Bronco II's, I'm referring to the Broncos that began\nproduction in 1978 based on the F-150 chassis I believe)\n\nI need to know what to look for, can the tops be removed from all\nmodels, how easily can that be done. Also, what kind of price range\nshould I be looking at? (i.e. what is blue book) I'm in college right\nnow, and would like a Jeep. Unfortunately, I've got a bit of a ride to\nschool, and I need to carry a lot of junk to and from the dormitory in\nthe spring/fall. I think that the Bronco (with the removable fiberglass)\nwould be a better (read \"bigger\") choice than a CJ-5 or CJ-7.\n\nEven better: anybody in the Maryland/Virginia area interested in selling\none?", "I know there's already a bmw mailing list, but since it's an R bike \nonly list (and limited to the R80* R100* bikes as well I believe)\nI've decided to give this a go and see how much interest there is.\nplease read all of this post if you plan on subscribing to the list!\n\nthere is only one restriction for the discussion on this list, that it\nbe about BMW's. I don't care which BMW, any and all are welcome. I will\nprobably post articles that appear in the local BMW club newsletter, and\nwould incourage other club members to do the same, especially tech\narticles.\n\nto subscribe to the list, send a message to the list address:\n\n bmw@rider.cactus.org\n\nwith the word SUBSCRIBE (in caps) in the *subject* of the message. having\nthe word SUBSCRIBE in the *subject* is the _only_ way to subscribe. if you \nput the keyword in the message body, your message will go out to everyone\non the list and you will be ridiculed beyond belief.\n\n ** your From: line must have a valid return address **\n ** the list sw will use the address in your From: line **\n\nif you would like to use a return address _other_ than what is contained\nin your From: line, do not send mail to the list! send a note directly to\nme (joe@rider.cactus.org) and I'll take care of it manually.\n\nthe list sw will hack up the outgoing message From: line so that your\noriginal full name in ()'s is preserved, but the return address is\nreplaced with the mailing list address (bmw@rider.cactus.org). this \nallows you to simply reply to a message to keep it on the list (depending\non your mail interface natch. I use elm so that's what I wrote it for :-).\nkeep this in mind when you reply to a message and question the authors\nparentage.\n\nto remove your name from the list, send a message to the list address\nwith the word UNSUBSCRIBE (in caps) in the *subject* of the message.\nhaving the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the *subject* is the _only_ way to remove\nyour name from the list. if you put the keyword in the message body, \nyour message will go out to everyone on the list and you will be ridiculed \nbeyond belief.\n\nthe list is run from my home system, a poor little 286 box running a\nvery old version of something that smells somewhat like unix. the MTA\nisn't the smartest around, but I've managed to hack it up enough to make\na decent list MTA. additions and removals are handled automatically by\nscripts that intercept messages based on the subject (see below) and\nmay occassionally goof. the sw will send a response message back when you\nsubscribe. if you do not receive a response within a reasonable amount\nof time (my link is via UUCP and sometimes runs in spurts), send me a \nmessage (joe@rider.cactus.org) and I'll look into it.\n\nif the list turns out to be too popular and the MTA groks over the number\nof addresses, I'll have to freeze the list recipients until I can come up\nwith a better MTA.\n\ngood luck...\n", "Henry,\n\ndidn't the Little Joe and Big Joe get built in under a year?\n6 months for little Joe, and 12 Months for Big Joe?\n\ni thought i saw something on that for a old mercury film.", "\nRight. ROM numbers (easy to remember) 100 mph ~= 150 ft/sec.\n\n tom coradeschi <+> tcora@pica.army.mil", "\n\tYes, but the _rear_ wheel comes off the ground, not the front.\n See, it just HOPS into the air! Figure.", "xlyx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu (Mike Terry) asks:\n\nak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker) replies:\n\nUgh! Who gave you guys your login names? Blech |^P\n\nJohn obviously never saw me ride a buddy's CX500, known as \"Torque Monster.\"\nI could pull the most beautiful skyshots with that bike! Unfortunately, the\nowner saw me do one. Once. I never get to ride TM again... ;^(\n\nMr. Bill", "I know it's a long shot, but maybe someone went through this and will have\nsome comments to share.\n\nThe story is this: I bought a car out of state, and I'm trying to get\nthe safety inspection in Pennsylvania. The problem is that the car has \naftermarket tint on all windows except the windshield. The tint is rather\nweak, and you can clearly see the inside of the car through the tint.\n\nThe inspection garage said that they won't pass it unless I get a\nwaiver from the state police. So I went to the state police - the\nofficer told me that aftermarket tint is illegal, and I can get a\nwaiver only for a pre-84 car or for a medical reason. I asked him to\nshow me the section of the vehicle code that says it's illegal. He\nshowed it to me and the paraghaph said that you can't have tint, if\nyou can't see the inside of the car because of the tint. When I told\nhim that you can in fact see the inside very well, he shut the book\nand said \"It's just illegal, and in fact we can have someone give you\na ticket for it right now.\" Well, won't argue with that...\n\nSince the vehicle code says it's OK as long as you can see through the\ntint, I'd like to keep it (I'll re-read the vehicle code in the\nlibrary). I'd also like to get some sort of paper from the police\nthat says it's OK, so I can get the inspection, and so that I won't\nget in trouble for the tint later on. I also wouldn't mind registering\na complaint against that officer - he really pissed me off.\n\nSo does anyone have any experience getting that sort of a paper from\nthe police, especially in Pennsylvania? Does anyone have any experience\nregistering a complaint against an officer? I called the station \nlater on today, but they basically said there is no place where I\ncould register a complaint against an officer... And if I do decide\nto keep the tint and get a ticket anyway, how much of a chance do\nI stand to succesfully appeal the ticket in court?\n\nAny comments about it will be welcome!", "\n Actually, I beleive \"DWI\" normally means \"Driving While Impaired\" rather\nthan \"Intoxicated\", at least it does in the states I've lived in...\n\n\n One can be imparied without necessarily being impaired by liquor - drugs,\nnot enough sleep, being a total moron :-), all can impair someone etc... I'm\nsurprised this got her off the hook... Perhaps DWI in Lousiana *is* confined\nto liquor?\n\nRandy Davis Email: randy@megatek.com\nZX-11 #00072 Pilot {uunet!ucsd}!megatek!randy\nDoD #0013", "\nI don't think Michael's response was anti-party but rather pro-environmental.\nI agree that you gotta let us Hogs out to roam every once in awhile. Let's\nhope that next year Oatman will be better prepared and that we all pick up\nafter ourselves.\n\n\nWell, I for one thought you told a good story, even if you say you are an\na**hole!:-) We need more biker experiances written to news. It's unfortunate\nthat you got flamed for telling it, but we all know this is a controversial\ngroup.\n\nAt any rate, keep up the good work and continue to post stories.", "Does anyone have one of these that would care to share\nsome information on? I concerned about the turbo. \nHow reliable is it? How's the gas milage.\n\nPlease responde to me, not here.\n\nThank you.", " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nNow just wait one cotton picking minute here.... DoD rule 417.1.2 section 6\nparagraph 3 clearly indicates that multiple people can't lay claim to a bike\nin an \"obvious\" ploy to \"artificially\" increase the size of their stable...\n\nSo the question of the day is... Is Spike owned by a lady of true class and\nbreeding (my definition: any woman who rides :-) ) or by Tom the harely head???\nI also note that you lay no claim to Connie or Ol Sport. (Like I said, \nobviously a lady of discriminating taste...)\n\nBored minds wanta know.", "\n\nI have never been to Wisconsin, though I have been to\nneighbor Minnesota. Being a child of the Middle Atlantic (NY, NJ, PA)\nI found that there were few states in the provences that stood\nout in this youngster's mind: California, Texas, and Florida to \nname the most obvious three. However, both Minnesota and Wisconsin\nstuck out, solely on the basis of their politics. Both have \nalways translated to extremely liberal and progressive states.\nAnd my recent trip to Minnestoa last summer served to support that\nstate's reputation. My guess is that Wisconsin is probably the\nsame. At least that was the impression the people of Minnesota left\nwith me about their neighbors.\n\nThe only question in my head about Wisconsin, though, is \nwhether or not there is a cause-effect relationship between\ncheese and serial killers :)", " ^^^^^^^\nSo how does Aerostitch hold up with this procedure? I'm ordering mine\nMonday, May 3. And I'm happy about it, too. :-) :-)\n\n -Mike", "\n\nI'd go for a '39 Lincoln Continental if I could find one. Sad part is\nthat Edsel Ford designed it, and look at the abortion they named after\nhim. Ain't no justice.\n", "\n\tAnd armadillo crossings.\n\n\n\tWell, let's see, in just my own _personal_ experience there's\nNevada, New Mexico, Texas, Wyoming, Utah, South Dakota, Nebraska, \nMinnesota, Montana, Florida, and parts of Louisianna.\n\n\tNobody said \"Let's go into town and drive 130 on Main St.\"\nAnd you couldn't go that fast on the graveled washboard that passes\nfor highway in some parts. But that \"only really expensive cars should\nbe driven fast\" crap, is, well, crap...", "\n\n\n\nAnnoying??? Are you actually using one or are you just talking? ;-)\n\nI'm sitting in from of one right now and I must say I never notice them! Yes,\nof course I can see them if I look, but annoying? NO WAY!!!\n\nChristian", "\nand didn't you also say that it was easier to add masses than to\nadd balance shafts? the sad truth is that some makers don't\nbother to put balance shafts on their big shaky 4's..\n\n\nhow about:\n\t 1\t 3\n\t __ __\n\t | | | |\n\t__| | | | __\n\t | | | |\n\t |__| |__|\n\t\n\t 2 4\t\t\n\nif this is ridiculous, kindly explain why.. it's been more than 10 years\nsince i studied this stuff. :-)\n\n\n\nthe point that they are trying to make is that while everybody settles\nfor the orthodox inline 4, they are using a horizontally opposed 4,\nwhich is unique in that market segment. and porsche also uses a flat\nsix in their 911, so what's the problem? i don't see any claim that\ntheir engine is as good as a porsche's.. they are simply pointing out\nthat they use the same configuration as a porsche.. if you want to\nnitpick ad campaigns, i think there are far more blatant excesses than\nthis.\n", "\nA Yugo that will go 1/4mi in 7.7 seconds will _not_ lose on the\nstreet. That's just too damn quick. It might be wrapped around\na telephone pole at the end of that quarter mile, but it will\nbe there alone...\n\n\nOr you could replace the stock shifter with a Hurst short-throw\nshifter (available from Ford Motorsport), or any number of other\nafter-market products to boost the performance of a Mustang or\nCamaro. Can you do _that_ with a '93 RX-7, or, verily, with _any_\nMR-2? With the Detroit aftermarket, you can build a Mustang or\nCamaro which is superior to either car you mention for less than\nthe sticker price of either.\n\n\nWell, gee. It works, and it doesn't break. It transmits power to\nthe drive wheels, and it's essentially zero maintenance--and there's\nan aftermarket in parts for Ford and Chevy rear-ends, too.\n\n\nWell, the '93 Mustang Cobra (which, from all reports, uses the\nsame running gear as '94 Mustang) has 4-wheel disks. I can't\nspeak for the new Camaro, but I think it does, too.\n\nAlso, stop and think about the markets here. The Mustang is, and\nalways has been, a mass-market sporty car (that's where the\n\"pony car\" class came from) with a performance model. That's\nwhy it has the econo-box running gear. That was also factored\ninto the design of the Mustang from the day Lee Iacocca conceived\nhis baby; it was designed as a wide-market car--sporty, yet \naccessible--with room for performance tweaking.\n\nThe cars you listed are designed for a specific market niche,\nand they both fit those niches very well. The Mustang, at least,\ndoes well in multiple markets; I can't speak for the Camaro.\n\n\t\t\t\tJames", "\nWell, they claim they are the only radio broadcaster with this\ninformation. But the city's cable channel (35 in CableVision areas)\nshows this information map during travel times (6-9am and 4-7pm, I\nbelieve). Most of the major LA freeways are covered. The\ncomputer-generated map shows green, yellow, red, or flashing red\n(respectively: <40mph, 25-40mph, >25mph, and \"incident\"--I might be off\na little on the speeds, since this is from memory).\n\nI often look at this display in the morning to see if I really want to\nfight the traffic on the Sepulveda Pass or work from home for a little\nwhile to wait for it to clear.\n\nAnother poster explained the origin of the information: sensors (embedded\nwire loops) in the pavement near ramps and every half mile or so. CalTrans\nhas had a \"big board\" driven from this data in their traffic control center\nfor some time. I don't know if they are selling the data or if anyone\nwith the equipment necessary for its transmission and display can have\nit.", "In three years of riding in the cities of San Jose,\nSanta Clara, and Sunnyvale I never came into any\nconflict with the local police over my lane splitting\nhabits (all three of these cities were listed earlier\nas being anti-splitting in one way or another). I\ncan't say whether this was due to luck, police\nkindness, or there not actually being any ordinances\nagainst it in these cities, so I continue.....", "Hola amigos,\n\nQuiero... I need an answer to a pressing question. I now own two\nbikes and would love to keep them both. One is a capable and\nsmooth street bike, low and lightweight with wide power and great\nbrakes; the other is a Beemer G/S, kind of rough for the city but\ngreat on the long road and backroad. A good start at a stable, but\nI don't think it's going to work. Unfortunately, insurance is going\nto pluck me by the short hairs. \n\nUnless... some insurance agent offers a multi-vehicle discount. They\ndo this all the time for cars, assuming that you're only capable of \ndriving one of the things at a time. I don't think I'll ever manage\nto straddle both bikes and ride them tandem down the street. (Turn left...\naccelerate the Zephyr; turn right... accelerate the Beemer.) Does\nanybody know of an agency that makes use of this simple fact to\ndiscount your rates? State Farm doesn't.\n\nBy the way, I'm moving to the Bay area so I'll be insuring the bikes\nthere, and registering them. To ease me of the shock, can somebody\nguesstimate the cost of insuring a ZR550 and a R800GS? Here in Tucson\nthey only cost me $320 (full) and $200 (liability only) for the two,\nper annum.", "\nJust from experience, seeing a couple of houses burn down, one doesn't\nneed any accelerant to get a lot of black soot. There's plenty of\nstuff in a house that will burn 'dirty'. Even the asphalt shingles\nwould make a really sooty smoke.", "\nHere's one I remember: (sort of)\nYogi's asleep in a hotel room late at night and gets a call from someone.\nAfter he answers the phone the person at the other end asks if he woke Yogi\nup. Yogi answered, \"No, the phone did.\"", "\n\nIf everything I've read is correct, Ford is doing nothing but \"re-\nskinning\" the existing Mustang, with MINOR suspension modifications.\nAnd the pictures I've seen indicate they didn't do a very good job\nof it. \n\nThe \"new\" mustang, is nothing but a re-cycle of a 20 year old car.", "\n\n\tAnd the Commonwealth of Virginia has not exactly butted\nagainst the issue on those grounds. The claim is that AS A MATTER\nOF TRAFFIC SAFETY one is not allowed to have a functioning radar\ndetector on the dashboard while operating a motor vehicle.\n\n\tYes, the argument is bogus, BUT... it hasn't been successfully\nchallenged in court. Yet.", "I am thinking of going on a motorcycle tour in New Zealand in the\nNovember-January timeframe.\n\nThere are a few tour companies doing this, notably Beach Tours.\n\nCan anyone who has done this let me know of their experiences, both good and\nbad?\nThanks.", " \n \n \n So, how did you guys *learn* this? Is it something you were\nborn with, or did you make horrible grinding noises the first few\ntimes? (how many times?)\n \n I would think you'd have to have a certain amount of \"feel\"\nfor it to begin with. Some people would never get it, and others\n(like me) would never have the guts to try it, unless maybe you\nwere planning to buy a new transmission anyway...\n \n (BTW, I've heard that quite a few truckers and race car\ndrivers shift this way).", "\n\nNo, it is independent of the speedometer. The gun processes two doppler\nreturns--the speed of the car relative to the pavement and the speed\nof the target, taking the difference between the two. Some guns with\na \"moving mode\" actually have a split beam with one beam aimed\npreferentially at the pavement.\n\nCar and Driver had a good article on traffic radar, but it was back in\n1985. I used its contents and references to defend myself against a bogus\nradar-measured ticket. It detailed \"moving mode,\" which is easier to\ndefend against because of the increased amount of variables.\n\n-- \n--------------------------------------------------------------------\n Dave Medin\t\t\tPhone:\t(205) 730-3169 (w)\n SSD--Networking\t\t\t\t(205) 837-1174 (h)\n Intergraph Corp.\n M/S GD3004 \t\tInternet: dtmedin@catbyte.b30.ingr.com\n Huntsville, AL 35894\t\tUUCP: ...uunet!ingr!b30!catbyte!dtmedin\n\n ******* Everywhere You Look (at least around my office) *******", "\n\tI had a friend in Pittsburgh who had a CB1000C with the dual-range\ntranny on it. He usually only used the \"economy\" range to get an overdrive\nsixth gear out of it. He had 59000 miles on it when it was stolen. It was\nrecovered shortly after that, repaired, and, for all I know, it's still going\nstrong.\n\n\tThe CB1000C was a shaft-driven overbore version of the CB900 and was\nmade for exactly one year (yep, head and base gaskets are VERY expensive).\nHelluva bike.\n\nA data point,", "\nYeah, diesels are cleaner than petrol powered cars. They even have catalysts \nfitted to disels now! Oh and Citroen have even launched the 'First sports \ndiesel car in the world'. Which is probably true if you assume if its for \nproduction purposes (Merc-Benz had a prototype which runs on diesel back in \naround 1968..... it did - and read this! - 200 MPH!!!)\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t....Shaz....\n", "\n Geez wharfie, do you have to be so difficult? Mine was built in December\n'88,\n which qualifies as pretty dang early, and it most certainly grinds away.", "\nI like my power windows. I think they're worth it.\n\nHowever, cruise control is a pretty dumb option. What's the point?\nIf you're on a long trip, you floor the gas and keep your eyes on\nthe rear-view mirror for cops, right?\n\nPower seats are pretty dumb too, unless you're unlucky enough to have\nto share your car. Otherwise, you'd just adjust it once and just leave\nit like that.\n", "-- \n : I want only two things from this world, a 58 Plymouth and a small : \n : OPEC nation with which to fuel it. This would be a good and just :\n : thing. Car Smashers can just go home and sulk. :\n : Jacques Brouillette --- Manufacturing Engineering :\n", "R. Goldstein (rdg@world.std.com) sez:\n: As the subject says, I am moving from Mass. to Calif. and will be driving\n: mostly on Interstate 80.\n: Any advice from folks who have done it before?\n\n- Plan your gas stops in major-city areas to avoid the 25 cent-per-gallon\n\"only gas station for 50 miles and you're an out-of-towner\" surcharge.\n\n- Prepare your car. Don't forget things like your fuel & air filters. If\nyou're loading your car up, consider putting your spare on TOP of your stuff\njust in case of a flat. In my x-country trip, a tire disintegrated in the\nCalifornia desert & it took me 20 minutes to unload all my stuff to get to\nthe tire.\n\n- If you have a hatchback, cover all your stuff with a white bedsheet to help\nkeep the stuff and your car cool, as well as *possibly* avoiding theft.\n\n- McDonalds have good, clean bathrooms.\n\n- invest in a $30 CB & magnetic roof antenna. It may help if you're stranded,\nand you can always ask people for places to stop for food, etc.\n\n- Many times police like to hang out in the 1st 10 miles after you enter a\nnew state, to catch all the speeders who have \"escaped\" the previous state.\n\n- Same as above; when you enter a 55mph city zone after hours and hours of\n65mph rural interstate\n\n-=$>Dave<$=-\n", "Because riding a passenger doesn't really depend on the type of bike.\nThe things you want a passenger to do/not do is the same. Ergo, if he's\nasking advice, I reasoned he doesn't have much practice, period. If\nyou say he does, fine. I still wouldn't take the uninitiated up a\nroad that's all switch backs and reverse/center/uncrowned roadway, not\nto mention the BDCs and squids who will also be on that particular\nroad. He asked for advice, and even though it wasn't what he meant,\nI still consider it some of the best I've read. ", "\nDid they ever put in any gas stations on US 12? I rode through there in\n1987, skipped a fillup at Bryce Canyon and rode 100+ miles before seeing\na gas station at Torrey. Awesome road, I recall riding up a narrow ridge\nabove 9,000? 10,000? feet.\n\n-Bruce", "\n\nThe experience you describe is why I don't like to sit with my bike in\ngear - I figure there's a chance that I'll be startled in some way and\nstall my bike. And I figure this is more likely than the chance that\nI'll be unable to escape some situation because of the extra time\nneeded to put the bike in gear.\n\nSo I concentrate on avoiding situations rather than making split-second\nevasive manuvers. I split lanes so I'm not at the end of the line.\n(Unfortunately this is not legal in most of the country) If I can't\nsplit (perhaps there isn't room) then I will stop near one side of the\nlane so I have an easy escape, and leave my bike in gear until the next\ncar has stopped. I watch in my mirrors in the mean time to make sure\nit will! Whether I really would have time to move should a car fail to\nstop, I haven't had to find out yet. Some cars have an annoying habbit\nof racing up behind you before braking heavilly, so it can be hard to\ntell if they are planning to brake or not!\n\nSo in summary, position yourself for an easy exit, and then watch your\nmirrors until it's all clear.", "\nI would prefer a picture with you in it. Since most motorcycles don't post,\nand are rather similar looking (i.e all R100S's are more alike than they are\ndifferent), it is the people that are ultimately more interesting.\n\nFrom archive_policy.txt:\n\nBTW, I have Charlie Smith's pictures available.\n\n\nInterestingly, I've been to Stanley, ID by motorcycle. Nice little town,\nnice road getting there.\n\n-Bruce", "\nI don't think the 550 sold very well - most North Americans who ride a standard\nrather than a sport bike usually want something bigger. People walk into the\ndealership, look at the 550 and the 750 and say, \"I might as well spring the\nextra bucks for the bigger engine.\"", "\nComparing the GTZ and GSR is apples to oranges, somewhat like a Mustang 5.0\nand a CRX, both have very different ways of doing things and ought to\nappeal to different buyers, i.e., I don't think an Acura owner would\nbe seen dead in a Chevy dealership or vice versa.\n\n[stuff deleted]\n\n\nNo Integra I have seen comes with all-season tires. \nThe GTZ does come with much bigger 16\" wheels.\n\n\nThe C+D figures are almost certainly bogus and based on a hot prototype\nsupplied by Acura. The MT figures are more plausible.\n\n16.1 sounds reasonable, probably faster than regular Integras.\n\n\nThe GSR gearing is horrible for day to day driving. It needs a 6 speed\nbox more than any other modern car. Essentially 5th in a regualr Integra\nequals 4th in the GSR, and the regular Integras are very buzzy at speed.\n\n\nThe only person I knew with a GTZ had it bought back by GM as a lemon. It\nwas a piecve of junk, but very quick for FWD.\n\n\nThe only GSR owner I know had the engine throw a rod with less than 5k\nmiles, a rare screw up by Honda.\nBoth the GTZ and GSR are flawed cars. The performance enthusiasts would take\nthe GTZ and the CR purchase would be the GSR.\n", "best way to reduce risk when operating a vehicle is being able to avoid\nhazards and, for that reason my preferred vehicle is a motorcycle. When I do\nuse a four wheeler my primary reasons are: it will keep me dry, it will keep\nme warm, or it will carry more cargo. If the four wheeler has as much\ncollision protection as the average motorcycle, then it has enough form me.\n\nHow do you define safe? One definition of safe is without risk. Is\n\n\n-- \nChas DoD #7769", "\n\n\tHOW TO GET A VERBAL WARNING FOR 146 IN A 55\n\nIt's simple. First, it has to be the first really nice riding day\nof spring. The bike is back together again, and so are you. Grab\nall your gear, put it on, and fill the tank with 94 octane premium\nor better. Head out.\n\n\tIn Ames, there is a road that leads to the little town of\nGilbert. Gilbert has one stop light, if that tells you something.\nHaving just gotten the bike back together, I thought I'd take it\nfor a short ride and check things out. Heading out of town, I\nwent into the twisties at a slow pace, just under the speed limit,\nand started leaning around. The pace quickened as everything felt\njust right. Finally, the road straightened and I was ready for a\nbit of speed. Grab third gear, open her up. At roughly 90mph\ngrab fourth gear. Look at as much of the bike as you can, and fail\nto notice a state trooper following a quarter mile behind. Twist\nthe throttle like a fool, grab fifth gear at 130 or so, and see\njust how well she's been put back together.\n\n\tAt 146 (according to radar) I noticed the front fender was\nflexing a bit. Thus, I slowed, pulled off the road, removed my\nhelmet and gloves, unslung the took kit I was carrying in a fanny\npack, and was just starting to tighten that fender when the trooper\npulled in all hot and flustered.\n\n\t\"Have you *ANY* idea how fast you were going?\"\n\"Not precisely, no. I was paying attention to the bike and road,\nnot the instruments. I just got her back together last night, and\nI'm just out here testing her out before I ride it in traffic.\"\n\t\"My radar says you were at over 145mph. Care to tell me why\nI shouldn't give you a ticket?\"\n\"Because I was testing the motorcycle away from population and\ntraffic, on a strait and flat road, while wearing all the protective\ngear that safety demands?\" (note: I wasn't quite that eloquent)\n\t\"Say, what kind of bike is that, anyway?\"\n\n\t\"Yeah, I haven't had my bike out of the garage in years.\"\n\n\n\t\"So why were you out here?\"\n\"I figure every other idiot on the road is going to look right through\nme. If the bike fails somehow in a 35mph zone, I'm dead. If it holds\nup out here, then I know it will work right in traffic. I do this\nevvery year when I rebuild her.\"\n\t\"Not any more. You'll find a better place than *my* highway\nto do those speeds. If I *ever* catch you speeding on my highway\nagain I'm going to nail you for everything I possibly can. Now get\nout of my sight before I write you a ticket.\"\n\"Yes, officer.\"\n\t\"And kid, keep your eyes open out there...\" \n\n\tAnd that, in a nut-shell, is how to get a warning for 146 in a 55.\nI don't guarantee that it will work for you, but it worked for me.", "************************************************************\n* *\n* ATTENTION ALL FOUR WHEEL OFF ROAD ENTHUSIASTS *\n* *\n* On/Off Road Rally - Sunday, April 25th *\n* Joliet Illinois *\n* *\n************************************************************\n\nThe Event:\n\n* The Joliet Mud Turtles, a Chicago land four wheel drive club, is\n sponsoring an On/Off Road Rally Sunday April 25th.\n\n* For those who ask \"What is an on/off road rally?\", well...\n\n An On/Off Road Rally consists of the following:\n\n 1. An on-the-road rally where participants are given a set of\n directions and clues guiding participates around the \n Joliet/Plainfield area. The object is to navigate a course\n based on a set of directions and clues. Participants will\n be given a set of questions pertaining to the course which\n they must answer along the way. Points are awarded for the\n number of correct answers given. Directions will ultimately \n lead to an off-road area where a four-wheel drive course is \n set-up. At various locations in the on-road course, check-points\n will be set-up where participants will be asked other questions\n or requested to perform some activity (e.g. tire roll, truck tow,\n basketball free-throw, etc.) for additional points.\n\n 2. An optional off-road, four wheel drive course where participants\n will navigate off-road trails, mud bogs and/or hill climbs.\n Points are awarded for successfully navigating off-road obstacles\n without getting stuck. If you should get stuck (which is half\n the fun anyway), there will be assistance to get your vehicle\n unstuck so you can try it again. The off-road course will\n divided up based on tire size, so stock 4x4s as well as modified\n 4x4s can run the course.\n \n At the end of the rally, trophies will be awarded to top scoring\n participants. Door prizes and dash plaques will also be given out.\n Food and drinks also available at the conclusion.\n\n* This is an organized activity sponsored by the Joliet Mud Turtles\n so safety and fun is our foremost concern. All 4x4s must be\n street legal and have solid tow points for the off-road section\n of the course - we don't want to have to separate someone's bumper\n from their vehicle :) .\n\nThe Particulars:\n\n* Rally begins at Instant Replay, 2409 Plainfield Road, Joliet Il.\n (815)436-9382 (see map below)\n* Registration is between 9 and 10:30 a.m. First truck out at 10:00 a.m.\n* Rally date is Sunday April 25th, rain or shine\n* There is an entry fee of $10 per truck.\n* You must have a co-driver (passengers allowed)\n* A valid drivers license is required\n* Suggested equipment:\n CB Radio\n Compass\n Tow Strap and Clevis\n Clip Board and Pencil\n* No alcohol during rally\n* For more information contact\n Gary (815)727-3415\n Tom (815)485-9346\n Norm Jr. (815)741-4853\n Brian (708)979-6083\n\n\n __\n Instant /\\\n | Replay | | \\\n | 1.9mi ___ | 1.2 mi | North\n |<----->| | <------------> |\n Rt30 | |___| | |\n------|---------------------------------------------\n Exit | | | ^\n 257 | | | |\n | | | |\n |Rt55 |Canton |Larkin |\n | |Farm |Ave |\n | |Rd. | | 3 mi.\n | | | |\n | | | |\n | | |\n | | |\n | Rt80 | v", "Does anyone know the performance ratings for a 1992 or 1993\n5.0 L HO Mustang LX like the 0-60 time 1/4 mile and top end ???\nAlso can you tell me which magazine where these #'s come from so I\ncan look them up if possable ???? If you could the year and month and\neveen page # if you have it.", "I bought an Intrepid about two months ago and am very happy with\nit. Lots of room inside and even with the smaller engine it has\nenough power for me. The only problem I found was a small\nselection on the dealer's lots. They are hot sellers around here.", "GK>Occasionally, I have trouble shifting into reverse. The shifter\nGK>refuses to enter the gate, and I often grind the synchros trying to\nGK>get it into gear. I'll be watching this carefully in the next couple\nGK>of months.\n\nEnter 1st, wait 2-3 seconds and then go into reverse. They use the same\nsynchros, and you'll never (at least I haven't) ground-em-to-fit when using\nthis technique.\n ", "\n: >I just got to thinking: why don't manufacturers still make bikes with \nturbos?\n: > etc ....\n\nBecause they add a lot of expense and complexity and make for a less reliable \nand less controllable bike. \n\nAs an extreme example the CX500 Turbo cost as much as a Mike Hailwood Replica \nDucati.\n", "I have just taken delivery on a new GM car (Firebird) with a \nclearcoat finish. I assume that it is probably urethane since the \nindustry has moved in that direction in paints.\n \nIn years past, it used to be recommended that owners wait up to \n60 days before you wax a car, for the paint to \"cure.\" The dealer \nshop manager said this also, but I'm not sure that he wasn't just \nbasing it on past tradition. Does anyone know if this is still a \nrecommended practice, or is it better to go ahead and wax right \naway (non-abrasive new car wax) with the newer finishes? \n", "\nSo of the 120 hp produced by my FJ1100 engine, \n\n 12 hp * (745.7 watts)/1 hp = 8.948 kilowatts \n\nis being dumped into 220 leetle tiny o-rings? That's 40.67 watts per\no-ring! Seems a little *hot*, doncha think?", "\t\t\t\t\t\t\t^^^^\n\t\t\t\t\t\tRears also vented\n\n\nThen you shouldn't've done it. Try answering the damn question.\nI am well aware of the fact that there was no mention of the SC\nin there.\n\n\nWell, my point was that the SC and the SHO both have very similar\ncharacteristics (front and rear disks (ABS on the SHO?), high output\nV6, 4-wheel independent suspension, very good aerodynamics, 3-point\nharness, fat rubber, and 130mph+ top speed). If one of them is \nup to standard (and I think the SC is), but the other isn't, then\nwhy is that? No flamage, just curiousity.\n\n\n\t\t\t\tJames", "...\n\nAnd send him a shift key too...", "\nAbout a year ago, some kids tossed a rock off an overpass on I-94 near Eau\nClaire, Wisconsin and it killed the driver below. (I believe he was a\nschoolteacher from Minnesota.)", "\n\n*nnnnnnnng* Thank you for playing, I cannot agree with this. I believed\nthis and to put it nicely, it was a piece of junk!\n\nI loved this car, I babied it, I pampered it, and after 2 years, it just\ncouldn't stay together, I would say that not everyone will have the\nproblems that I had, but know this, it's not just the car, it is the\nability to get the car fixed, which will NOT happen at any\nchrysler/dodge/take your pick dealer. I don't care if there are going to\nreform their dealers/service with the intro of the LH cars, I will believe\nit when I see it. Case and point, the local dodge dealer. You drive up,\njust looking, you don't even get out of your door, when about 10 (yes 10)\nsalesman all eye you like their next meal, and literally pounce on you,\nand try to get you to make a deal, on everything your eye wanders towards.\nService is about 2 times worse than that. I had an alignment problem, but\nthey tried to tell me that the K frame was bent, and about 2000 dollars of\nwork/parts to fix it. Let me tell you the problems I had, and I took care\nof this car, I put alot of miles on it in the first couple years, but took\nit to every checkup it needed, and many that shouldn't have been.\n\n1988 Dodge Shadow ES\n\nThese were replaced within the 4 years that I owned the car.\n\nEngine \n4 Alternators\nRear Suspension Torsion Bar\n2 Water pumps\n5 thermostats\nHall effect sensor\nMain computer\n4 Batteries\n\nThese were rebuilt/repaired\n\nRadiator\nAutomatic Transmission\nPower Steering\n\n\nThose are just the things I can remember off the top of my head. For\nabout a year before I sold the car, I said to myself, it's a good car, I\njust can't find anybody competent enough the fix it. In the end, before I\ntraded it in for a Saturn, the power steering started acting up again. I\njust stopped putting money into it. I must have put at least $5000-$7000\nworth of repairs over it's lifetime. I am sorry but Lee Iacocca can bite\nme. Bullshit, whoever backs em best, is just afraid the stupid things are\ngoing to fall apart, and no one will buy them without assurance, why the\nhell do you think that LH has been nicknamed Last Hope.\n\nYou can do better, and I know people will disagree with me here, but\nJapanese, like Honda, or Toyota, or the only american car company that I\nfeel is a quality product, Saturn. I will not touch another chrysler\nproduct again, no way. I don't care how good the LH cars look good, and I\nwill admit they look promising, but not with the support that you get. GM\nisn't much better, thank god, they don't control Saturn, like they do\ntheir divisions, or it would be just another marketing ploy. \n\nDon't get me wrong, i will be watching my car (which I do like) like a\nhawk for the next 4 years. I am much more hesitant to say it (or any) car\nis really good, until it has proved itself to me.\n\nBut since someone else pointed out C&D as a source. I will note, because\nI used to read these magazines, that Car and Driver has never had a good\nthing to say about most Chrysler products (Shadow for one), always were\nthey moaning about the reguritated K-car, and engine. Whereas Motor Trend\nalways thought they were great cars. No car magazine is really objective.\n\nAnd although there are alot of people who don't like Consumers Reports, I\nwill use them to reinforce my argument (I already know about the big stink\nwith the Saturn crash tests, time will tell how good a car they are), the\nshadow/sundance rate much worse than average, in fact none of the\nchrysler's rate a better than average, I think the best one is just\naverage. Excluding the diamond star/mitsubishi stuff and the LH's. You\ncan find bad stuff about the Shadow. Try as I might, when I researched\nthe Saturn, I could not find anything bad about it. There is a great deal\nof information about this company, just because it is a new american\ncompany and it has created quite a stir in the automotive community, for\ngood reason. Much more than the introduction of any new model lines of\nany established company. I read an article, which had a sub-column, an I\nthink this imprinted on me more than anything else. Some big wig in\nToyota said and I quote, \"We are watching them very closely.\" Come on,\neverybody grow up, the foreign cars, especially the japanese have been\nkicking our butts, for good reason, the american car companies could not make\na good product or support the customer the way they want these days, to\nset in their ways, which is one of the reasons Saturn was created. They\nare still struggling because they haven't learned yet. They have the\nability, the workers are not inferior, the technology is not out of date,\nbut their attitude is, and they are just finding this out. It's called\ncompetition gentleman/women if you don't satisfy the demand of the\nconsumer, well your out.. \n\n*asbestos suit on*", "Eve'.\n\nI am looking to buy 4 new p195-50r15 tires.. (R or HR). I don't\nhave much to spend, but I would like a tire that will LAST. Does\nanyone have any experience with the following brands?\n\n\tRiken\n\tFalken\t\n\tBFG\t\n\tGeneral\t\n\nThere are others, but these I can find here for under $70.. Like\nI said, I am mostly interested in threadwear then speed, since I\nhardly get to drive them over 80 or 90 mph. Also, is it true that\n\"noone will give you warranty on such tires\", according to\na tire dealer?\n\nFinally, do HR tires last longer than R tires (threadwear again),\nor is that strictly a speed factor?\n\nThanks for any replies..\n", "\n\nI had a similar experience. We had a written quote which had been mailed\nto us from the salesman at one of these \"no-haggle\" Toyota dealers for\na Camry XLE w/ABS, leather, etc. The price seemed fair, but when we\nwent in to take them up on their offer, they \"discovered\" that certain\nextra cost items hadn't been included in their original written quote.\nIt would have totaled an extra $1100 and, in spite of the fact that we\nhad a written quote, they said there was nothing they could do.\n\nBottom line, quotes from salemen are worthless and it appears to me that\nthe Toyota dealers think they've got such a superior auto that they\ndon't have to deal. We walked, went out and bought a new LH car\n(Eagle Vision TSI) and I don't regret it one bit!\n", "Does anybody out there have one of those food dehydrators I've been seeing\nall over late-night TV recently? I was wondering if they use forced air, heat,\nor both. If there's heat involved, anybody know what temperature they run at?\nMy wife would like one and I'm not inclined to pay >$100.00 for a box, a fan\nand a heater. Seems to me you should be able to throw a dehydrator together\nfor just a few bucks. Heck, the technology is only what? 1,000 years old?", "\nOk, I'll bite. How is this supposed to work?", "/ hpcc01:rec.motorcycles / groverc@gold.gvg.tek.com (Grover Cleveland) / 9:07 am Apr 14, 1993 /\nShop for your bike in Sacramento - the Bay area prices are\nalways much higher than elsewhere in the state.\n\nGC\n----------\nAffirmative! Check Sacramento Bee, Fresno Bee, Modesto, Stockton,\nBakersfield and other newspapers for prices of motos in the\nclassifieds...a large main public library ought to have a\nnumber of out-of-town papers. \n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGraeme Harrison, Hewlett-Packard Co., Communications Components Division,\n350 W Trimble Rd, San Jose, CA 95131 (gharriso@hpcc01.corp.hp.com) DoD#649 ", "\nSorry, but *neither* 'dictates' the cost. It's a negotiation.\nWhether it's up front at a honda dealership in an all out \ndickering war, or more removed on a larger economic scale\n(ie, if saturn can't sell at it's price, the price drops,\nor the company stops building them), it remains a negotiated\nvalue controlled by market forces. To think that the consumer \ncontrols price is ludicrous. If the consumer controled\nprice, then cars would be *free*...And no one would build \ncars.\n\nRegards, Charles", "\nThat is a question that can only be answered by yourself and where you live. \nIf you live in a place where crime is apparent, then it might be a good idea to\nget one simply as a deterrent. However, if a professional thief wants your\nvehicle, its as good as gone no matter what you do. But to slow down any\nthieves it would be a good idea to get the basic options. That would be:\n\n1)\tignition kill or fuel cut-off\n2)\ta flashing red LED\n\nThese two are basic to a decent alarm system. \nTo slow down the criminal some more, get a steering wheel lock.\nThat should be sufficient to persuade the thief to find an easier target.\nBut, then there's always car-jacking. \nWhy is life so confusing?\nI hope I helped somewhat.", "1988 Toyota Supra, Fully loaded automatic.\nMaroon color with leather interior.\nAlpine stereo system with CD changer.\nAlpine car alarm\n90,000 miles, great condition, one owner.\n\nHave to leave country in June.\n\nAsking $9,000 o.b.o.\n\nPlease call (310) 212 - 5376 and ask for Cary.\n\n-- \n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\nBernard Lin\t\t\t\t Departmental Research Assistant\nComputing and Information Services\t\tColumbia Business School", "addition,\n\nBricklins were manufactured in the 70s with engines from Ford. They are rather \nodd looking with the encased front bumper. There aren't a lot of them around, \nbut Hemmings (Motor News) ususally has ten or so listed. Basically, they are a \nperformance Ford with new styling slapped on top.\n\n\nRush fan?\n", "\nSigh. That's music to my ears, after all the complaining Lois did\nabout the seat on my BMW...\n\n\nI've found that the phrase \"sack of potatoes\" works pretty well in\ndescribing to a passenger how s/he should act.\n\n\nOn a long ride with my ex-girlfriend Nancy, I would notice her\ndrifting off every so often (we were droning down highway 101 to LA).\nI probably wouldn't have been aware of this if she hadn't been in the\nhabit of squeezing my butt with her knees to hold on. Good advice.\n\n\t\t\t _MelloN_", "\nOne day out riding, my friend and i were passing a field of goats and\nnoticed 2 out on the road. As we slowed to pass the ram made a dash at \nmy friend just missing him and then tangling it self up in the barb wire\nfence. Being good samaritains and generally nice guys we turned around to \nuntrangle the goat from the barbed wire. As I pulled up next to him\n(seeing him still tangled up), stopped the bike and got off the Goat had\nvanished (into the field I guess).", "Posted for a friend:\n\nLooking for tires, dimensions 14\" x 3.25\" or 3.35\"\n\nAlso looking for brakes or info on relining existing shoes.\n\nAlso any other Maicoletta owners anywhere to have contact with.\n\nCall Scott at 801-583-1354 or email me.\n-- \n I saw fops by the thousand sew themselves together round the Lloyds building.", "Rob Reilly:\n\n\nThis is just not so - many of the earliest cars had their steering\ncontrols in the center of the vehicle, and there is no discernible\npattern of left- or right-hand steering controls until a few years into\nthe 20th century, when, in America at least, left-hand wheels became the\npattern. The mule team (or horses, I imagine) explanation, however,\nseems to have some merit.\n\nDan\ndh3q@andrew.cmu.edu\nCarnegie Mellon University\nApplied History", "\nI bought my Moto Guzzi from a Univ of Va grad student in Charlottesville\nlast spring.\n\n\t Mark Cervi, cervi@oasys.dt.navy.mil, (w) 410-267-2147\n\t\t DoD #0603 MGNOC #12998 '87 Moto Guzzi SP-II\n \"What kinda bikes that?\" A Moto Guzzi. \"What's that?\" Its Italian.\n-- ", "\nHaving driven both, and having owned an SC300 for 14 months now, all I can\nsay is \"it depends\". They're both great cars. In fact, my wife and I\nare saving our pennies so we can get her the 300ZX convertible in a year.\nThe 300ZX handles like a dream, while the SC300 rides like a dream.\nFit and finish on both are excellent, but the Lexus gets the nod in\ncustomer satisfaction. They're both very attractive, and hideously\nexpensive. The resale value of the SC is better than the ZX. The\n300ZX isn't available with traction control, which makes it a handful\non slippery surfaces.", "My friend, David Gordon wants to sell his 1989 Honda. Some of the details of th\ne car are as follows:\n\n Five speed\n A/c, AM/FM/Cassette stereo\n ps/pb\n Rear window defroster\n EXCELLENT CONDITION\n\nAsking 6400.00 OBO.", "\nYes, yes, yes. Motorcycling is slightly different to each and every one of us. This\nis the nature of people, and one of the beauties of the sport. \n\n\nAnd what view exactly is it that every single rider of cruiser bikes holds, a veiw\nthat, of course, no sport-bike rider could possibly hold? Please quantify your\ngeneralization for us. Careful, now, you're trying to pigeonhole a WHOLE bunch\nof people.", "\nWell it still looks like you've got an attitude problem\nMr. Muttonhead. You should take the comments with more\nsensitivity. I still despise most people who belittle\ndrinking and driving since my first girlfriend was killed \nby such an asshole back in '85. Learn to take the verbal \nabuse.\n\nIf you can't take the flames, \nand you can't use your brains,\nstay out of the newsgroup.\n", "\n\n\nThey are illegal here in Manitoba as well though I don't know what \nmethods are used to detect them.\n\nIt has always amazed me with the way the laws work. It is not illegal to \nsell them here in Manitoba, only to have them within a vehicle. (Last I \nheard, they don't have to be installed to be illegal.)", "\n\n\tAnd they're rather tasty.\n\n\n\n\tPer gallon (bushel) perhaps. Unfortunately they eat the same amount\nevery day no matter how much you ride them. And if you don't fuel them they\ndie. On an annual basis, I spend much less on bike stuff than Amy the Wonder\nWife does on horse stuff. She has two horses, I've got umm, lesseee, 11 bikes.\nI ride constantly, she rides four or five times a week. Even if you count \ninsurance and the cost of the garage I built, I'm getting off cheaper than \nshe is. And having more fun (IMHO).\n\n\n\n-- \nGo fast. Take chances.", "\nCool - I conjure up this image of BD in Doonesbury...so Dean, how long \nhave you been sleeping with your helmet on??\n", " ^^^^^^^\n ^^^^^^^^\n\n\nSounds pretty lame to me.\n\nLet me see if I understand now. Your \"friends\" charge you extra?\nJust how much do you usually have to pay for a little\nfriendliness? Seems like you're being \"serviced\" by some\n\"friendly\" sales people.\n\n", "seningen@maserati.ross.com (Mike Seningen)\n\n The funny thing about the digital dash (87 T-bird) with the 85mph speedo \nlimit was that if you pressed the button to convert to kilometers it would \nread all the way up to 187kph. At this point the stock anemic 302 would get \nshort of breath. This of course was equivalent to about 116mph (hehe).I bet \nI really coulda confused this thing if I'd toyed with the engine and rolled\nthe stupid thing (the digits were limited to 199). \n\n I've gotta agree with ya on the analog clock w/digital dash though. My\ngirlfriend had a '85 TurboCoupe with a digital clock and analog gauges/radio.\nGo figure...\n\n\nusenet@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu (Usenet Administrator)\n\n I had a great feature on my T-bird.... I could pull the key out and \nleave the ignition on. This scared the hell out of me the first time it\nhappened but I kinda grew to like it. Musta been a bad key copy or \nsomething.\n\nMark Novakovic", " ^^^^^^^^^^\n\nZounds! There's a blast from the past indeed! I'd nearly forgotten\nabout the strategic significance of strabismic in r.m lore. It's\nreally good to see it proudly displayed again, although I'm sure\nby now that its carbs are spooge-o-rama from long disuse.\n\nGosh, I'm tingling all over!", "\n...deleted lines...\n\n\n As I live in Sweden I remember the day perfectly well. We changed\nside 1967-09-03 (or 03-SEP-1967). I don't remeber the exactly time but\nit was in the night. (in the 'big' cities like Stockholm & Gothenburg\nall trafic was forbidden, exept busses and taxis, during the whole\nweekend.) The day was a Sunday and everything was prepared in before.\n\nBefore the day we was told to follow the yellow lines on the road and\nafter it was the white one that matters. The signs with arrows on was\nprepared with a 'left mode' label that was torn off that night to\nreveal the new right mode arrow.\n\nThe year after Iceland also changed.\n\nAbout cars: Before the H-day (H as in \"Hoegertrafik\". \"hoeger\" is\nSwedish and stands for 'right') practically all cars already had their\nsteering wheels on the left side. Even the imported cars from UK had\nthe wheel on 'the right side'. At last we have cars with the wheels on\nthe right side. :-)\n\nMore contries that uses the left side is:\n\nJapan\nTanzania (I think)\nNew Zeeland\nHow about South Africa?\n\nBTW. Some sais that the left side is the right side because Ivanhoe\nand other knights meet at the left when they fight in tournaments. :-)\n\n...deleted lines...", "# > Actually, fossil fuel plants run hotter than the usual \n# >boiling-water reactor nuclear plants. (There's a gripe in the industry\n# >that nuclear power uses 1900 vintage steam technology). So it's\n# >more important in nuclear plants to get the cold end of the system\n# >as cold as possible. Hence big cooling towers. \n\nWhen the utility gave up on that Cinnci, OH plant (Zimmer?) and\nannounced they were going to convert it to a coal-fired scheme, the\nturbines were already in place, and they were the low-temp type. So the\nplan was: Install a SECOND set of high temp turbines, and feed the\nlow-temp ones with the output of the new ones.\n\nNever saw anything more on this. Did they ever really build it?", "Hello everyone,\n I have an insurance question.\n\nAllstate insurance\n\nSITUATION: Person wrecks car. Car is drivable to dealer. Person \nreports accident (no other cars involved). Driver estimates damage cost \nexceedes cost of car. Insurance people claim car is \"totalled\" because of \nexceeding repair costs.\nPerson says \"WWHHHAATTTT!!!! But I drove the car here!\" and takes it to \nanother place. Other place estimates 2,101.00 in damage. 2,000 less than the \ndealer.\nOne more hitch... The car is registered in Florida but the accident occurred \nin Pennsyvania.\n\nQUESTION: Should the insurance recognize and pay for the damages of this, \nnow fixable, car even though they prematurly declared totalled?\n\nPlease respond via E-Mail if you think you know anything about this sort of \nthing. \n\nchris@camp.wpic.pitt.edu", "Thanks to all who responded. The three items (electric vest,\nAerostitch Suit, and Scarf) are all spoken for.\n\n-Gary\n", "And do not set your heart on what you will eat or drink; do not worry about it.", "You guys are correct. The Bricklin was produced in Canada.\nThe National Museum of Science and Technology here in Ottawa\nhas one, and sometimes they put it on display. Most of the time,\nit stays in storage because the museum doesn't have much room.\nIt's a big deal for a car to be Canadian and that's why they \nhave it. If anybody's a fan, they also have a nice green '73\nRiviera that looks like it just came out of the showroom.\n-- \nMIKE HARKER\nOTTAWA, ONTARIO, CANADA\nVOICE: 613-823-6757", "Remember roads in America are NOT designed for speeds above 80 meaning they\nwould be safe at 55-65. Roads like the Autobahn are smoother, straiter,\nwider and slightly banked. \n\nExample: A few months back I was traveling late at night ( 3:00 am or so)\nand I was changing highways at a bent crosssing. It curved off to the south\neast becoming hidden by trees after about 1,000 ft and continued to the\nleft strait north. I wanted to turn north, checked the south lane, rolled\ninto the crossing and checked the north lane. Nevertheless there wasn't \na car in sight, so I took one last look and pulled into the left hand lane.\nNow my car isn't a 5 sec 0-60 performer but I was in the corect lane and \nover 40 in decent time, even at 3:00 I wasn't wasting time. It was then\nthat I checked my mirror and saw a Mustang closing in my lane *FAST*, he \nhad just turned the corner and was just noticing me. Luckly he saw me and \nchanged lanes in time, I estamate he was moving in excess of 90 or so.\nI was just a by stander, I had no chance of runing from him, or moving out \nof his way. I'm glad he saw my brake lights in time. I shudder to \nthink of what would have happened had I wainted to pull out and not \nleft the time he needed to dodge me.\n\nRule: Just because your car can do 100+, and your way is clear,\ndon't assume it will stay that way.", "\nBecause Greyhound has apparently gotten around to installing their\nRADAR collision-prevention system. They use RADAR to monitor how close\nother vehicles are and how fast their relative speeds are, and signals\na warning to the driver if they're coming up on something too fast\nor are getting too close.\n\nThis is all I remember from the news reports a few months back; at\nthe time, they were only talking about the possibility of installing\nthe system. (They didn't mention how it worked in bumper-to-bumper\ntraffic, or how it discriminated between a Camaro approaching at\n120mph and ye olde bridge support in the median being approached \nat 60mph on a curve.)\n\nI do recall something about progressive stages of warnings, from\nflashing lights to audible warnings--ie, it goes from a red \"Too\nclose\" light to hysterically screaming \"WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!!\" :-)\n\n\t\t\t\tJames", "\n\tNot to start *another* shaft effect discussion, but the twist you\n\tfeel when revving sitting still is due to the larger fly-wheels that\n\tthe BMW R-bikes (maybe K's too, dunno) use. If you whack the throttle\n\tat stop lights, it'll really rock the bike over (to the right).\n\n\t \t\n\n\tPlease post if you come to any conclusion on this. I am thinking\n\tof putting a light on each cylinder guard on my R100S, and was\n\twondering whether I was going to have to switch lights off every\n\ttime I was under 5,000 RPM :-)\n\n\n", ": I am in the market for a bike and have recently found a 1990\n: Honda VRF 750 at a dealership. The bike has about 47,000 miles\n: and is around $4500. It has had two previous owners, both employees\n: of the dealership who, I have been told, took very good care of the\n: bike.\n\n: I have two questions: 1) Is this too many miles for a bike? I know this\n: would not be many miles for a car but I am unfamiliar with the life\n: span of bikes. 2) Is this a decent price? I am also unfamilar with\n: prices for used bikes. Is there a blue book for bikes like there is\n: for cars?.\n\n: Thanks for any advice you can give.\n\n: --Mark\n--\n\nMark,\n\n 47k is not too many miles on a VFR750. I sold my (well maintained)\n'87 VFR700 with 52k miles on it and the engine was in mint condition.\nAll that the bike needed was steering head bearings and fork bushings\nand seals. The guy who bought it had a mechanic pull the valve covers\nto look at the top end, do a compression check etc. He confirmed it was\nmint.\n\n As for price, $4500 seems a little steep. I bought my '90 with 12k\nmiles on it a year ago (and in absolutely cherry condition) for $4800.\nThere is a bluebook, ask your bank or credit union for the going price.\nI've seen a couple of ads for VFR's in the $4500 dollar range. They all\nsaid low miles & mint condition but I didn't actually go look at them.\n\n A VFR is a very sweet bike and will last you forever if you maintain\nit at all. One thing to look for, BTW, is a soft front end. If my\nVFR is any indication, at 12k miles the fork springs were totally shot.\nProgressive springs ($55) fixed it right up.\n\nGood luck,", "\n\n\nWell, I never wrote that I would act as you described. I stated that I \nwould not block a would-be passer. I would not block a would-be passer\n\"for their own good\" or for any reason other than I was prevented from \ndoing so due to the traffic circumstance. I fail to see how deterring a\npasser under these circumstance would IN ANY WAY decrease YOUR chances\nof being involved in an accident, fatal or otherwise. In fact, I could\nimagine how blocking a would-be passer would actually INCREASE your \nchances of being \"offed\" or involved in an accident, especially if \nthis \"passer\" is riding your bumper. Intentionally blocking a person\nriding your bumper is certainly NOT a \"wise driving practice\", it \nonly causes the jam to become more congested. \n \nI don't mess with trucks and I actually watch the road ahead AND the \nroad behind! If I perceive that I am rapidly closing on a \"pack\" \nof vehicles, I try to avoid getting caught up in situation such as you \ndecribe. Usually either traffic is just building and I have to deal \nwith this fact of life, or I wait to a slow passer to complete their \npass and make way for the pack to clear. If someone decides then to \npull up on my bumper, I signal my intention to move to the right, and \ndo so at the first opportunity (& hope they will open the jam). I \nfeel this is not only courteous driving, but ALOT safer than the \nactions you advocate!!! There are actually many courteous drivers \non the road who do not intentionally impede others. ", "From Kay Honda's \"Helpful HInts ABout Your Honda\" infromation sheet\n(given to new owners of Honda vehicles).\n\n\"A burning smell may be evident from your new car shortly after taking\ndelivery.\"\n--I now own a fire extinguisher;>--\n\n\n\"On Prelude S mels at temperatures above 32 degrees push the\naccelerator pedal to the floor one time, release slowly, and with your\nfoot off the accelerator, crank the engine until it starts. Moe than\n5 seconds [!!!!!!! my note] of cranking may be required. In\ntemperatures below 32 degrees the accelerator will have to be\ndepressed 2-3 times.\"\n\n\"Door panels and interior trim can be damaged if they are not buckled\nby getting caught when closing doors.\"\n\n\"When shifting accord automatic transmissions from Park Neutral, or\nReverse into Drive the transmission shifts into 3rd gear.\"\n\n\"In case of towing:\n\t1- Start the engine\n\t2- Shift into drive from Park, then from Drive to neutral\n\t3- Turn off engine\"\n--what if you are getting towed b/c engine won't run?--\n\n\"IF ENGINE DOES NOT RUN DO NOT USE THIS PROCEDURE!\"\n--Phew, I was worried!--\n\n\t\tInsert smilies where appropriate, though this is REAL.\n\nJonathan", "Hi:\n\nI have a '82 Blue TOYOTA Corolla/Tercel for sale:\n\nReason for seeling this great little car is my new Celica.\n\nCar Specifications:\n\n1982 Toyota Corolla/Tercel\n5-Speed\n125K miles\n2 Door\nBlue\nAir conditioning/Heat\nAM/FM stereo\nWell taken care off and maintained clean\nNew Battery, Timing Belt, and fan belt.\n\nInspection sticker valid until 02/94\nA tough car, generally go above 200K miles.\n\nMake me an offer.\n\nE-mail : reddy@ulysses.att.com\nphone : (908) 582-3861 (Work)\n\t (201) 635-3705 (Home)\n\n\tKishore Reddy", "\nTake a look at mini-vans. I sat in a Dodge Caravan, which had a high seat\nand plenty of headroom.\n", "\nYour starting to sound like a little child who wants ice cream. If you\nkick and scream enough you think people will believe you. Sorry proof\nby vigorous ascertion doesn't hold any water. I can insist that cats\nare dogs all day, it doesn't make it so. ", "\n\n This is called silver bearing solder. It is used to solder to\ndevices that have silvered contacts. One application is soldering\nto the ceramic terminal strips used in the old Tektronix scopes. These\nwere notched ceramic strips that were silver plated in the notches.\nIf you used ordinary solder the molten metal would disolve the silver\noff of the ceramic. The silver was quite thin. The 2% is a saturated\nsolution of silver in tin and lead. Thus, no more silver can be\ndisolved in the solder solution. Other devices that use silver contacts\nare quartz crystals and ultrasonic transducers.", "\n\njames, i really hate to do this, but try reading the damn posts!\nnever was a t'bird mentioned. The discussion was about SHO's and\n'stangs not being up to spec. I do not know about t'birds. I\nonly know that the specs quoted for the SHO by previous poster sounded\na little anemic for me to say that it was up to snuff. This does not\nin any way disencourage* me from wishing to own one, nor does it make it\na bad car. It merely means that i think Ford could have added that extra\nbit of safety and tossed in larger brakes, as the wheels are plenty large\nenough for them to fit (if memory serves right, which it may very well not)\nand the motor plenty powerful enough to need it.\n", "What size dirtbikes did you ride? and for how long? You might be able to\nslip into a 500cc bike. Like I keep telling people, though, buy an older,\ncheaper bike and ride that for a while first...you might like a 500 Interceptor\nas an example", "\nI had the same inconvenience when I bought my EX-500; only I could at least\ngo 50 mph during the initial break-in.\n\nDespite the high quality of motor oils and motorcycle engines these days,\nI would follow the instructions, and just keep to city street riding for\nthe first 500 miles. Heck, those miles go by fast, and it's worth it to\nknow you haven't possibly screwed up your engine.\n\nAt the same time, this has all the makings of a 6-week-long thread debating\nthe whole break-in topic.", "\nSo you really see no problem with banning them from places to which you\ndon't want to go?\n\n\nTalk to somebody in the insurance industry, particularly after a few\ndrinks. Then talk to my mom (no booze required). :^)\n\n\nEver heard of the DoD? :^)\n\n\n\nNah, you just became complacent that so long as your little quarter\nacre is safe, you get your little tax deduction, and no act of the\ngovernment intrudes, in too direct and obvious a way, into your little\nday to day life, you just don't give a shit.\n", "\nSorry I can't help you with your question, but I do have a comment to\nmake concerning aftermarket A/C units. I have a Frost-King or Frost-Temp\n(forget which) aftermarket unit on my Cavalier, and am quite unhappy with\nit. The fan is noisy, and doesn't put out much air. I will never have\nan aftermarket A/C installed in any of my vehicles again. I just can't\ntrust the quality and performance after this experience.\n\n - les\n", "I'm certainly no engineer and really have no scientific basis\non which to make this argument, but don't you answer your own\nquestion? Is the reflected signal \"shifted\" at all from the\nact of being reflected? If so, wouldn't it then be easy for\nthe detector to discriminate between reflections and direct\nsources?\n", "\n\n\n\tWhich, as it turns out, is just about everybody that's serious about\nhorses. What a bunch of weenie fashion nerds. And the helmets suck. I'm wearing\nmy Shoei mountain bike helmet - fuck em.>>>\n\n\n\n\tNah, I can still walk unaided.\n\n\n\n-- \nGo fast. Take chances.", "\nI have had my Probe looked at twice by my local dealer (where I purchased\nthe car) ... the first time, they made this problem worse. The second time,\nafter advising them of the service bulletin mentioned on my ford-probe mailing\nlist (they said they didn't know of the bulletin), they adjusted the window and\nmade it *much* better. However it now makes a \"scritch scritch\" noise on rough\nroads, and *still* squeals when I open/close the window in wet weather (anyone\nelses's do this?)\n\n\nI got two keys with my car, but only ONE remote-entry push-button thingie!\nBut then, I bought my 93 with 2500 miles, and I think it may have been a\nrepossession ... so I'm not surprised something was missing :-(\n\n\nI am seriously considering following the advice in the owners manual where\nit describes the procedure to follow if \"you discover something on your Ford\nthat could ... cause ... serious injury ... threaten lives ... etc). Something\nabout notifying the National Traffic Safety group as well as Ford. Those little\n\"you've-got-to-position-the-fingers-perfectly-to-make-it-beep\" buttons are\nTERRIBLE.\n\nWell, I guess that's good in a way, but in a way it's bad. When someone\nhears that kind of horn, they expect to see a big American car. They may\nnot associate the sound with a small \"jap car\" style car (like the Probe is).\n\n\nThe mudflaps help a lot.\n\n\nI have always been a 5-speed guy. Almost every car I've ever owned has been\na 5-speed. Because I got a good deal on this car with the 2500 miles, I\n(knowingly) overlooked the fact that it has an automatic. But it is a pretty\nhigh-tech automatic. It is a fully electronicaly controlled 4-speed with\ntorque converter lockup. Even with the automatic, I'm getting 35 mpg on the\nhighway, driving 65-70!. (but of course driving > 65 is illegal, so I \nprobably made that sentence up). :-) Around town the mileage has been\naround 25-27, not bad for an automatic. Of course it doesn't have the\n\"control\" of a 5-speed, but since I do a lot of city driving, it turns out\nto be very convenient. It's nice to be able to drink a cup of coffee and\ndrive at the same time (although that, too, is illegal here in \n\"we-like-to-control-your-life Massachusetts\" :-)\n\n\n\nShakes and rattles has been my main gripe. I've gotten them to fix the\nworst of them, but I fear that with the rather harsh ride, the car will\nbe a virtual potpouri of rattles when it gets older.\n\n\nOn my 89 Probe GL, I got about 40K out of the original Goodyears,\nand had driven the replacement tires (Bridgestone) 50K miles when\nI tradeed the car. The 195/65(60?)VR14 Firestones on my 93 Probe\nlook like they're designed for performance (ie rather wide, shallow\ntread, etc), so they probably won't last as long. But the car handles\nvery very very well. It sticks to the road like glue, even on a rough\nsurface.\n\n\nDefinitely. Ford/Mazda did a very very nice job on this one. The\ncar has a \"much more expensive than it actually is\" look and feel to it.\n\n\nHaving driven an 89 Probe for 4 years, I find the 93 suspension \"interesting\".\nThe car actually drives much better than the 89 ... it is a very firm\nride, and you definitely know about each and every bump in the road. Yet\nthe car remains very civilized on even the bumpiest roads. You Hear and\nfeel the bumps, yet the car retains its posture very well.\n\n\nWell I wouldn't encourage passenger-carrying in the Probe unless the\nperson in the front seat likes to sit with his knees to the dash. As\nmentioned in the Consumer Reports write-ups, \"consider the back seat\nas a parcel shelf\". No biggie to me though (if it had been, I'd not\nhave bought the car! (but it's definitely not a family car)).\n\n\nA/C is a MUST on any Probe from 89 - 93. The 93 in particular sends out\na REAL BLAST of cool air when the AC is on MAX. That \"lots of glass\" you\nmentioned is what gives the car the \"very good visibility\" reports you\nsee in all the write-ups. Most \"sports/sporty\" cars don't have that\ngood visibility.\n\n\nThe complaints I've heard re: exhaust system (on 93's) have been on \nthe GT. Of course being a different engine, that is a differeent \nexhaust system.\n\nI was one of those with an 89 who qualified for the free replacement.\nSince I had already replaced the muffler when I received the notice, \nI was/am due a refund from Ford. I applied in February and am Still\nwaiting. :-(\n\n\nYes. I was pretty amazed when I had my car in for some touch-up\nadjustments this past week, and they had to keep it overnight (too busy\nfor them to get to it) and they offered to pay for a rental). They \ndid make me pay for taxes and insurance though :-(\n\n\nI have to agree that they seem to have some QC problesm. But I seriously\nfeel the car design is sound, and expect it to do very well.\n", "kevinh, on the Tue, 20 Apr 1993 13:23:01 GMT wibbled:\n\n: |> >>Rolls-Royce owned by a non-British firm?\n: |> >>\n: |> >>Ye Gods, that would be the end of civilization as we know it.\n: |> >\n: |> > Why not? Ford owns Aston-Martin and Jaguar, General Motors owns Lotus\n: |> >and Vauxhall. Rover is only owned 20% by Honda.\n: |> \n: |> Yes, it's a minor blasphemy that U.S. companies would ?? on the likes of A.M.,\n: |> Jaguar, or (sob) Lotus. It's outright sacrilege for RR to have non-British\n: |> ownership. It's a fundamental thing\n\n\n: I think there is a legal clause in the RR name, regardless of who owns it\n: it must be a British company/owner - i.e. BA can sell the company but not\n: the name.\n\n: kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch\n\nI don't believe that BA have anything to do with RR. It's a seperate\ncompany from the RR Aero-Engine company. I think that the government\nown a stake. Unfortunately they owned a stake of Jaguar too, until\nthey decided to make a quick buck and sold it to Ford. Bastards.\nThis is definitely the ultimate Arthur-Daley government.\n--\n\nNick (the Cynical Biker) DoD 1069 Concise Oxford Leaky Gearbox\n\nM'Lud.", "\n\nWhat's the problem here? Back in 1958 I rode a Puch 175 from Paris to\nBarcelona and back. That was a two stroke, and back then it was representative\nof the size of bikes on the road. A 350 was considered a big bike, and the\nsuperbikes of the day were 500cc or 600cc. Anything bigger was real rare.\n\n\nCharlie Smith, DoD #0709, doh #0000000004, 1KSPT=22.85", "oops, that's KNX 1070. KNBR is up in 'Frisco, and down at 680.", " must have\n must\n must\n I've seen amps and volts, I would go for the volts\n must you ask?\n I would like to know how much gas I have. Of course the \n gauge I have now dosen't tell me s**t so I could see not \n having one in favor of a warning light at say, 50mi\n OOOOOOHHHHH! how I would LOOOVE to have a vacuum gauge \n on my dash!", "\nThis thread brings back memorys of an expensive day in traffic court\na few years ago. While I was waiting my turn to state my case and\nplea of why I was going 75 in a 55 in my cage, I had the opportunity\nto listen to some of the \"creative excuses\" offered the judge by others.\n\nAfter listening to a number of \"Well, I was passing a very slow truck\nthat suddenly speed up\" versions, I decided that the judge had heard\njust about every story in the book and then some. He was less than\nimpressed with any of them.\n\nThis young, rather burley looking guy, had his docket read by a\nrather drill sargent looking Ohio State Highyway Patrol Trooper.\nHe was clocked riding a motorcycle at a speed of 110 mph in a 55 mph\nzone. It was also noted that the defendant (motorcycle rider) had\nalcohol on his breath, but was not cited for this offence.\n\nThe judge looked over his half glasses purched on the end of his nose\nand said in his sternest voice: \"Well son, those are some pretty\nfast speeds to be riding a motorcycle. What do you have to say for\nyour self?\"\n\n\"Well Sir\", meekly the defenant replied, \"I just was over to my\nbuddys and we had a couple of beers and I was on my way home.\"\nHe offered nothing more or less. Just had a couple of beers and\nwas doing 110 mph on his way home.\n\nThe judge moved by the simplicity of the response, fined him the\nmaximum in this case (plus court costs of course) and ordered him\nto attend remedial drivers training school.\n\nIsn't America Great??\n\n", "Oh boy, a little K-bike versus /2 scuffling? Grow up! And that goes for\nthe both of you!\n\nI do hope that the \"dump dempster\" campaign works however.\nI think that he is a crook, and I am suprised that it has taken this long\nfor anything to be done (though obviously, it ain't over yet)\nOn the other hand, \nI'm not sure that I want to be in bed with ANY of the wackos running.\nThrowing $20.oo down a rathole might be more effective than sending it in\nto the club. You wouldn't get anything, but you don't get anything now.\n\nThe magazine you say? Ever since the MOA politburo installed Don it has\nlacked any sort of panache it may have had. \n\nAh, but what would I know? I own a /6 AND a K-bike\n", "gee.... is it 1999 already?\n\nYes, it will still be on the fox program chasis, anything that will be different\non the new car as far as mechanical's is unknown. The suspension will most\nlikely be changed, as well as the drive drain. From what has been printed on\nit, there is no clear idea of what will be done, as some say it will have\nthe modular V8 and others the current small block... just have to wait and see\nAlso is far as styling goes from what I seen is good, a return to tradition.\nC scoop on the sides and roof line much like a '65 or '66 fastback.", "\n\nSometimes a bad choke pull-off diaphram will cause a car to fast idle. The\npull-off, which is vacuum actuated, provides a necessary pull in non-cold\nweather conditions to get the idle off the the fast idle cam. Locate the\nfast idle cam on your vehicle and see if you can rotate it to produce a\nnormal idle. If so, locate the diaphram and test it. If you can't apply\nsuction (via a good piece of rubber vacuum hose) with your mouth that will\ncause the diaphram to retract, then it's bad and should be replaced.", "\n\tMy GS came with XGT V4s and they are NOT all weather tires. I took\nout my right front bumper sliding on packed snow (not ice), before I learned\nthis fact. I immediately bought XGT H4s which are definately all-weather.\nA Carrera 4 I walk by everyday has XGT V4s on it even. The Michelin dealer\nwhere I bought my new tires said the V4s were made out of a different \nrubber that gets really hard and slick when the weather gets near feezing. \nSaid he'd only try to sell me those tires during the winter if we were in\nTexas and not Colorado.\n\nThanks,\nEric\n\n\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\nthis is off the subject but, \n\nDon't the numbers in the car names above refair to the engine size in \nliters? i.e. ls400 = 4.0litre engine, sc300 = 3.0 liter \"Sport Coupe\".. \nand Q45 = 4.5liter.. (similar, kinda, to BMW and MB nameing deal). ", "\nfranks> This is my first post, so no DoD#.\n\nWould you like to know what DOD is? If you do, feel free to ask.\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------", "\nNo wonder bikers have such a horrid reputation.\n\nGo find a HUMAN!\n\n\n\nI agree completely. Unfortunately, the majority\nof my feelings, before I can even start to think\nrationally abhout the dog that is trying to kill\nme, are fear.\n\nWhen there's been a moment to set up, like you\nsaid \"a bit down the road\" or whatever, I've \nnever had a problem with dogs.\n", "\n\n\n\n\tThe Olds Supreme Convertible got high marks in C/D's recent test, if\nyou can get by the stupid body moldings and stuff. The Saab 900 ragtop may\nbe out of your range, but its a good choice. Is there a new F-car convertible?\nThe Nissan 240SX convertible is a nice car also... Those immediately come to \nmind...\n\n\n", "Society\nthose\nshaky\n\nNow, I'm not saying you're wrong because I know that the R-12 substitutes \nexist, but this sounds a lot like the 200mpg carbs that the oil companies \nkeep us all from getting.", "\tThe part about spending $5000-7000 on repairs reminds me\nof an article I read in a magazine comparing the 5 year ownership costs\nof a Toyota Camry and a Ford Taurus or something like that. The result,\nwhich they announced with great flourish was that it cost the same at the\nend of the period. That was their argument to prove that you don't go\nwrong buying the Ford Taurus over the Camry.\n\n\tNow, if I remember correctly, the Camry costs about $4000 or so more\nin initial costs. Essentially, it means that you spend about $4000 extra\non repairs on the Taurus. That is ridiculous. Every time your car\nneeds repairs, it is extra hassles, loss of time and a dozen other things.\nI would much rather spend $5000 more in initial costs than spend $4000 more\nin repair costs.\n", "\n1) The next time you get stoped by a cop, never never never admit to anything.\n\n2) Don't volunteer any information.\n\n3) When a retoracle question is ask by the cop, like \"...it like you were going kinda fast coming down highway 12. You been going at least 70 or 75?\" -- the correct reponse is to deny it. This technique is employed by police to help establish guilt, especially when (9 times out of 10) he/she is not sure who was doing the speeding. If the cop is unsure this may be the difference of him letting you off the hook or getting the tissue.\n\nHope this helps for next time.", "\nBy not being able to drive for a year, it was close enough to jail.\n\nAnd, BTW, where the hell did I ask for sympathy.\n\nI asked what to do about insurance, not about my _life_.\n\nFWIW, if everyone was _honest_ on this group, I'd\nothers besides me that read this have had a DWI too.\n", "I got a sample of black reflector material, maybe from \"Conspicuity\"?\nIt is black but reflects silver if the angle of incidence is shallow.\nWhoever it was I got it from sold/sells kits that fit BMW (and other\nbrands?) of luggage and fenders. Don't know what I did with the sample;\nthe kits seemed too expensive, as I recall.", "\n\nsure sounds like they got a ringer. the 325is i drove was definitely\nfaster than that. if you want to quote numbers, my AW AutoFile shows\n0-60 in 7.4, 1/4 mile in 15.9. it quotes Car and Driver's figures\nof 6.9 and 15.3. oh, BTW, these numbers are for the 325i.\n\ni don't know how the addition of variable valve timing for 1993 affects it.\nbut don't take my word for it. go drive it.", "DS>From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)\n\n\nDS>>Riding up the hill leading to my\nDS>>house, I encountered a liver-and-white Springer Spaniel (no relation to\nDS>>the Springer Softail, or the Springer Spagthorpe, a close relation to\nDS>>the Spagthorpe Viking).\n\nDS> I must have missed the article on the Spagthorpe Viking. Was\nDS>that the one with the little illuminated Dragon's Head on the front\nDS>fender, a style later copied by Indian, and the round side covers?\n\nNo. Not at all. The Viking was a trick little unit made way back when\n(forties? fifties?) when Spag was trying to make a go of it in racing.\nThe first iteration (the Springer) was a boxer twin, very similar to Max\nFriz's famous design, but with an overhead \"point cam\" (see below for\nmore on the valvetrain). The problem was that the thing had no ground\nclearance whatsoever. The solution was to curve the cylinder bores, so\nthat the ground clearance was substantially increased:\n\n\n ==@== <-Springer motor (front)\n Viking motor (front) -> \\=@=/\n\nThis is roughly the idea, except that the bores were gradually curved\naround a radius, as the pistons were loath to make a sharp-angled turn\nin the middle of their stroke. The engine also had curved connecting\nrods to accomodate the stroke.\n\nThe engine stuck out so far because of its revolutionary (and still\nunique) overhead cam system. Through the use of clever valve timing and\nand extrordinarily trick valve linkage, only a single cam lobe was\nrequired to drive both overhead valves.\n\nJust as revolutionary was the hydraulic valve actuation, which used a\npressurized stream of oil to power the \"waterwheel\" which kept the lobe\nspinning over. One side effect that required some rather brutal\nengineering fixes was that until the engine's oil pressure came up to\nnormal, the engine's valve timing would be more or less random,\nresulting in some impressive start-up valve damage. The solution was a\nlittle hand crank that pressurized the cases before you started the\nbeast, remarkably similar to the system used in new Porsches to\npressurize the oil system before the car is started (the cage, however,\nuses an electric oil pump. Wimps).\n\nDespite this fix, the engine had a nasty propensity for explosively\nfiring its valves into the pistons when a cylinder would temporarily\nlose a bit of oil pressure in a corner. The solution was to run even\nhigher oil pressures and change the gaskets and seals regularly. This\nwas feasible because it was a racing engine.\n\nWith just a single overhead lobe, and no pushrod/shaft/chain towers\nbecause of the hydraulic system, the head of the engine came to an\nalmost perfect point:\n\n /\\\n /()\\ <-lobe\n / XX \\ <-complex linkage (not shown due to\n valvestems -> / \\ / \\ complexity)\n | | | |\n | |===| |\n =0= <---piston\n |\n Note that the tip was not truly vertical\n (it was at about a 70 degree angle to the\n ground, and this drawing doesn't show the\n curvature because there was none in the\n head itself. The bore curve would start\n about where the cylinder bore disappears in\n this diagram\n\n\nThe effect of the pointy heads on top of a pair of gently (pundits of\nthe day even said sensuously) curved cylinders was much like a pair of\nfinned Viking horns poking out from beneath the gas tank. Thus, the\nname.\n\nThe Vik was a moderately successful racer, lightning fast when it\nworked, but plagued by problems relating to its revolutionary\ntechnology. Eventually, it was dumped when Spag finally realized that\nracing was not where the Spagthorpe name would be made. The machines\nwere raced for another year or two by privateers, and their fate\n(approximately six Vikings were made, plus one or possibly two\nSpringers. Confusing the issue is one old Spag staffer who swears up and\ndown that this machine was tooled for production, and that as many as\ntwenty or thirty machines may have come off the line. However, no modern\nrecord of a production Viking has survived, and most motorcycle\nhistorians discount this story.\n\nRyan Cousinetc.|1982 Yamaha Vision XZ550 -Black Pig of Inverness|Live to Ride\nKotRB |1958 AJS 500 C/S -King Rat |to Work to\nDoD# 0863 |I'd be a squid if I could afford the bike... |Flame to\nryan.cousineau@compdyn.questor.org | Vancouver, BC, Canada |Live . . .\n\n\n * SLMR 2.1a * If you aren't sliding, you aren't riding.\n ", "\n\tHey, Dana! Long time, no read. I'm afraid the squid rating has\ngone up slightly since getting the Ninja, but I'm trying very hard to restrain\nmyself--the bodywork is just too damned expensive (knock, knock).\n\n\tAt least it's quiet...\n\nLater,", "\nrubberized undercoating for this. \n\n-- \nVon Welch (vwelch@ncsa.uiuc.edu)\tNCSA Networking Development Group\n'93 CBR600F2\t\t\t'78 KZ650\t\t'83 Subaru GL 4WD", "\n\n\nWell, DRL's are already mandatory for motorcycles...\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n", "My 85 Caprice Classic with 120K+ miles has finally reached\nthe threshold of total number of mechanical problems that\nI am forced to post :). Anyone out there who might be\nable to give me some pointers on one or more of the below,\nplease e-mail or post!\n\n1. When making turns, especially when accelerating,\n there is usually a loud \"thunk\" from the rear of\n of the car. Sounds like it could be the differential.\n What could cause this? Is the differential going\n bad? I recently had the differential fluid changed,\n and it DID have tiny metal bits in it. (And no,\n the sound is NOT something rolling around in the\n trunk!) \n\n2. On starting the car, I get blue (oil) smoke from\n the exhaust for 5-10 seconds. Exhaust valves\n going bad? Worn rings? Anyone know whether the\n valves on the 4.3 TBI engine can be lapped?\n\n3. Brakes. More pedal travel than I feel comfortable\n with, but master cylinder is full and fluid is\n relatively clear. Pedal does NOT slowly sink to\n the floor when held down. Pedal does not feel\n spongey, but I suppose that bleeding the brakes\n might help -- could anything else cause this?\n\n4. Tranny. Tranny problems seem to be slowly getting\n worse -- takes almost 2 seconds to downshift from\n 3rd to 2nd on heavy throttle application, and more\n recently, it is reluctant to shift from 2nd to 3rd.\n Fluid (checked with car running with tranny put\n through all the gears and then back to park, as per\n Haynes manual) is red and clear, and is on full mark.\n\n5. My springs all around are just about shot -- I have\n 4 new shocks on, but car still skips out on bumps\n in turns at moderate to high speed. How hard are\n they to change? Can they be reconditioned?\n\nI'd be interested in hearing from any GM full-size RWD owners\nout there with stories to tell and/or advice. Here in Philly,\nthese cars are apparently stolen(!) quite often and converted\ninto taxis. Apparently the cab conversion shops will get a\njunk title for the car or switch VINs with a car about to be\njunked. About 60% of Philly cabs are Caprice's, with most of\nthe rest being Crown Vic's with a few old New Yorkers and\nImpalas (& Broughams).", "\n\nIf possible, I split lanes. Even if you don't get all the way to the\nhead of the line, at least you won't rear-ended. I always worry more when\nI'm in the lane, at the front of the line, and no one in behind me. Then you\nhave to keep an eye on your mirrors. I also get ready to pull a hard right,\n*just in case*.\n\nMike", "\nThis does sound good, but I heard it tends to leave more grit, etc in the \noil pan. Also, I've been told to change the old when it's hot before the\ngrit has much time to settle.\n\nAny opinions?\n", "\nFor the information of those not \"lucky\" enough to live in the city of\nAustin, TX, if an auto a/c system is checked and found to have leaks,\nit must be repaired at that time, or evacuated. This is an ordinance\nunique (I think) to the city of Austin.\n\nFreon is subject to increasing taxes, but $12 is about 2X cost here.\nRecovered freon is not required to be \"purchased\" from the car it is\nwithdrawn from. As a matter of practice, some shops here are charging \na recycling fee that is less than the cost of the freon removed if it \nis reintroduced to the system.\n\nJust another quality service from an _Enviornmentally Conscious_ city.\n", "Greetings:\n\nCan someone steer me towards sources of information on vehicle data\nlogging systems? In particular, I would like to build/buy (or a little\nof both) a system that is small enough to fit on a motorcycle and will\ntake input from various sensors (pressure, LVDT's, acceleration, RPM,\nO2 sensor...), digitize and record it for later analysis. \n\nPlease email me any info. If I get anything interesting, I'll compile\nit and get it on the net. Thanks.", "\n\n\nIn Shreveport, back when I was riding the Purple Water Buffalo, I jumped an \nintersection IN FRONT OF A COP who was waiting for the light! The side of \nthe street he was on was hidden buy a building on the corner and I didn't \nsee him till I was airborne in the middle of the intersection. I was \nparked, had my helment off and my liscence out before he turned the corner. \nHe chewed my ass out and let me go! I will be the first to admit it was a \nvery squidly thing to do, jumping the intersection like that. The cop \nshould have nailed me. I find that if you are polite, respectfull and \nhonest, they will normaly let you get away with a LOT of stuff.\n\nP.S. The shock mounts folded up the next day. I guess I deserved that!\n\n ----===== DoD #8177 = Technician(Dr. Speed) .NOT. Student =====----", "\n\tThat I did not do; however, the sample bolt I took to the store fit\nrather well in the following: 1/2\" open end wrench, 1/2\" box end wrench, 1/2\"\n12-point normal socket. I take that as meaning it's a 1/2\" bolt head.\n \n\n\tYup. At $6 a socket, I want the @#$@# thing to FIT!\n\nLater,", "\n\nEither I've just fallen for this, or you guys\nare _really_ paranoid!\n\nYou're actually worried about somebody stealing \nyour oil?\n\nC'mon, you think a vandal'll do that?!\n\nThat's absolutely ridiculous!\n\nBesides, how hard is it to get under the car to \nchange the oil?\n\nI can say from experience on the cars that I've driven and\nchanged the oil on, my Mazda 323 is pretty much a pain, but\nonce you've done it once, you don't forget how, and it\ngets easier.\n\nI can't imagine any other cars are much worse than mine.\n", "Does anyone know of a dead first generation MR2? I need body parts, steering\nrack, and a few minor pieces. I was about to buy a parts car, but the owner \nbacked out after 3 month of pulling my leg. ARRRRgh.\nMike.S\n", "Ed's heading out on the highway?\n\nDid he finally buy a bike or is he a passanger?\n\nJeff Andle DoD #3005 1976 KZ900 REE700A@MAINE.MAINE.EDU", "TRAILER FOR SALE\n\n1990 Hooper Auto Transport Trailer\n16' x 6.5' Flatbed\n4 Ton Gross Weight Capacity\nTandem Axle Suspension\n7 x 14.5 MH Nylon Tires\nComes With a Spare Tire\nElectric Brakes\nStop Lights & Turn Signals\nLoading Ramps - Tilt for Towing - Removable\nFront Steel Fence - Removable\nStake Sides - for attaching sideboards, tiedowns, etc\nRigged for Hauling Automobile, Tractor, Equipment, etc.\nLess than 4000 miles since new\n\nSerialized, with Title and Registration Papers\n\nFor sale by Original Owner @ $795\n\nBig hook-end chain and 4\" web ratchet tiedown negotiable\n", "}start her up and rev to about 3000 rpm....I FAIL cuz I register 120 DB,\n}and the max allowed is 110! If I fail with these pipes, there are gonna\n\nNext time make the numbers more believable -- this is poor flamebait.\n120 DB is getting close to the sound of a jumbo jet engine at takeoff\nrevs from some small number of yards away. It is certainly right\naround the pain threshold for humans. No way in hell the state permits\n110 DB if they have any standard at all.\n", "\nRich,\n\tFirst of all you might want to join the VetteNet (vettes@chiller.compaq\n\t.com) during your search/acquisition of the 67. $20k sounds about \n\tright for a wrong engine, condition 3 car. This means that the car may\n\tnot have significant investment value but could be an excellent driver\n\tand or hobby car. You will also want to get a copy of the Corvette\n\tBlack Book immediately. Don't leave home (to look at Vettes) without it.\n\tSince you are contemplating spending >$20k, you might want to invest a\n\tfew hours in reading the \"Corvette Buyer's Guide\" and purchase Noland\n\tAdams' tape \"How to Buy a Corvette.\" The tape shows you how to check\n\tfor damage, etc.. There are many many factors that will affect the\n\tvalue, road worthiness, and repair expense of your proposed 67. The\n\tlist is much too long to go into here. Join the VetteNet where\n\tthere are over 100 current Corvette owners (many with 60s vintage\n\tvettes) that are available to help you. The pubs I mentioned above\n\tare available from Mid-America Designs (800) 637-5533 and several\n\tother Corvette parts sources. Good luck!!!", "\n\n\n\n\n\nIn the past few years I have owned 3 Mustang GTs and now own a 91 T-Bird SC. \nThey all have had this problem. There was a recall on the T-bird for the brake \nproblem. The Ford dealer replaced the rotors and pads but the rotors warp \nafter about 10K miles. Between this problem and the fit and finish problems on \nthe T-Bird I'll never buy a Ford again.\n", "\nI've only ever done it in an automatic. I was sitting in my Olds, in\nthe winter, at a light, when I heard screeching behind me. I managed to\ndart into the left turn lane before the sliding Jetta wound up half\nwhere I was and half in the parked car beside where I was. I've never\nhad occasion to do it on a bike, but I imagine that it would be even\neasier, because you could slip beside the car in front. Giving a gander\nat the mirrors while at a light will give you time to get the clutch\nout smoothly when you notice trouble, instead of waiting for the\nscreeching.", "\n\n\n\nI have been having problems with a slightly different clutch problem on\nmy 90 Prelude. See rec.autos.tech for more detail. My problem is a false\nengagement point below the actual one. It also seems affected by weather -\nit is most noticeable (and annoying) on damp or cold days. My dealer says\nhe can't reproduce the problem - I think I'll just sell the car.", "From mikefran Wed Apr 21 10:55:39 EDT 1993\nArticle: 56 of csc.general\nNewsgroups: dc.forsale,dc.general,um.general,csc.general\nPath: wam.umd.edu!mikefran\nFrom: mikefran@wam.umd.edu (Michael Francis)\nSubject: Car for Sale\nMessage-ID: <1993Apr21.142729.7039@wam.umd.edu>\nKeywords: 1981 Volkswagon Scirocco\nSender: usenet@wam.umd.edu (USENET News system)\nNntp-Posting-Host: rac3.wam.umd.edu\nOrganization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park\nDistribution: csc,um,dc\nDate: Wed, 21 Apr 1993 14:27:29 GMT\n\n\n1981 Volkswagon Scirocco \n\n Gold exterior and interior\n 5 speed transmission\n AM/FM Stereo with cassette\n Sunroof\n Engine in good condition\n New Tires\n Needs $300 work on front left control arm because of damage caused by\n pothole.\n Runs well \n Asking $800.00 AS IS / OBO.", "\n\n\n\n\n\nOh, well... I have to admit that the most disgusting feature of\nVolvo's is their marketing. It looks like Volvo uses something like\n\"Do you dare to risk your family in any car?\" attitude, which is quite\nannoying in the long run.\n\nBut now Volvo has produced a new good car, the Volvo 850. Front drive,\n2.4 L 20 valves motor, completely new chassis etc. Even the British magazine\n\"CAR\" liked it (and believe me, that is quite much for a Volvo). And\nthe American magazine \"Road & Track\" said that \"This is not your uncle\nOlof's car\", and in a positive sense.\n\nBut in any case, I'd still like to own the 960 estate. Strong, tank-like\nchassis, 3.0L inline six, rear drive. :-) :-)\n\nBTW, the only car drivers who have blocked me are Land Rover or Jaguar\ndrivers... :-) :-) :-) :-)", "I have to disagree with this. I have a 92 Z28 with a 350 and a 4-speed auto\nw/ overdrive, and it is really better that way. Chevy autos are reknowned\nfor their long life and ability to handle copious amount of power. I live \nin the Dallas area, and a manual would be much harder to drive in the traffic \nhere. Now if I still lived out in the sticks like I used to, a manual would be\nmore fun. \n\nSafety-wise, an auto is less distracting...I would hate to have to be \nshifting gears while I was trying to ease into traffic in the freeways here.\nPerformance-wise, I can hold my own against any stock 5.0 Mustang or 5.0\nCamaro w/ a five speed. \n\nAll of this IMHO... :)\n\n\n\n", "\n\njust out of curiosity, how is this \"dog clutch\" any different from a synchro\ntransmission. What you described SOUNDS the same to me. In fact, what little\ni've studied on trannies, the instructor referred to the synchros as \"dogs\"\nand said they were synonymous. The gears are always meshed in a synchronized\ngearbox, and you slip the synchro gears back and forth by shifting. Or at least,\nthat is what i was taught. Explain, por favour?", "I, too, put a corbin seat on my Hawk. I got the solo seat (which\ncould carry a passenger for a short distance) and it is 100%\nbetter than the stock seat. No longer does my voice squeak after\nthe ride to work.", "[stuff chopped]\n\nUm, you gotta understand these \"salesdroids\" as you call them. They look at\nit this way: burn lotsa tire; make lotsa money. I'm sure s/ he knew how\nstupid the \"HG\" was. Would you seriously stop them from burning off \na seasons worth of tire?? The SQUIDS probably would buy Metzelers or some\ngood low profile tire anyhow...\n\nYep. Them droids sure a sneaky bastards! ;)\n\nRegards, Ted.\n", "There is or was a microwave tower next to Florida's Turnpike, and you\ncould watch the cars hit the breaks as they came in sight of it every\nmorning...\n", "\n\n\n\"In Dog We Thrust\"", "My brother is preparing to pay another year \nof college expenses and asked me to post this. \n\n1987 Alfa Romeo\n Gold Milano Model\n\n V-6 Engine\n Power Everything!\n\n Seats 4 comfortably\n Looks / runs great\n\n $3,600 O.B.O.\n\nContact: Brian Wall\n (214) 393-1216", "Insurance companies sure seem to go for No-Fault coverage. Since the\nmajority of accidents are the cagers' fault, doesn't this imply that we\nwould have to pay much higher rates under a No-Fault system?\n\nWith a cars-only system, it seems to make sense on the surface: take the\nlegal costs out of the system. But it looks like motorcyclists would\nget screwed.\n\n\n-- \nMichael \"Chuck\" Bain meb4593@icdfs.ca.boeing.com ", "\n\nIs there any such thing as in inefficient heater?", "\nThe DeLorean had the yucky PRV V6 engine. A joint-venture between Peugout (note \nspelling), Renault and Volvo. PRV. This engine is a *MIGHTY BORING* piece of\njunk with approx 140hp. Doesn't like revs at all.\n\nIf you look at the DeLorean in the movie Back To the Future you will note\nthat they changed the engine sound to a big V8. A real DeLorean doesn't sounds\nhalf as good. You will also note that every time they have to spin the tires\nin the movie the ground is all wet. This is because a DeLorean can't make\na burnout on a dry road! The weak engine thats mounted over the rear axle\nmakes it almost impossible.", "\nI have just a couple of questions about this technique.\n\nFirst, what firing order should I use? Do I start with my pointer\nfinger or my pinky? Left hand or right?\n\nAnd secondly, I have a 12cyl and there are two cylinders unaccounted\nfor. Any suggestions?", "One of the local dealers has a used (7k miles) '93 Probe GT\non the lot with a photocopy of a document taped to the\nwindow saying the dealership bought the car back from\nthe previous owner because of \"Engine noises\", but that\nthe Ford district rep had OK'ed the car saying those\nnoises were \"normal\". I thought it was worth looking\ninto (the car seems otherwise clean) and mentioned this\nto a co-worker, who proceeded to tell me a horror story\nabout her son's '93 Probe GT, which had several problems,\nending with engine noises which she said \"was something\nwith the heads\", that Ford acknowledged the noise, said\nthey were working on it, but didn't have a cure as of\nyet. Her son traded the car in (and I checked -- not\nthe same car). So I have some evidence of a reoccuring\nproblem with the V6 in the Probe GT's, and by extension\nwith the Madza 626 and MX-6.", "Well, it's been fun. This is my last day at Bellcore and\nIt will be a while before I have net access again (taking\ntime off and scheduling Military Schools for the summer\non joint operations, and anything else that looks good).\nI have had a blast reading, responding and commenting on\nthings posted here. My final say is 9mm's are inferior\nto .45's errr oh wrong news group. Hopefully I'll be back.\nI guess \"internet withdrawl\" starts around 1pm or so and\nconsidering I never knew inet existed 2 years ago I am\nreally going to miss it. \n\nOH yea, to the guy who called me this morning about the\n\"Military issue\" boots, good luck, I think you will be\nhappy with the tankers boots.", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nJim,\n\nI hope you never drive (or ride) when:\n\nyou have been drinking \nyou have been taking prescription drugs\nyou didn't get enough sleep the night before\nyou are upset with your girlfriend\nyou just didn't feel like your brain was talking to your body\nyou think you are at laguna seca and want to break the lap record\n\nANY of the above situations have the potential for harm (read death)\nPeople make mistakesIf you have never endangered someone else by driving a vehicle in an\nunsafe manner, then go right ahead and bitch about Mr Infante misuse\nof a motor vehicle. Otherwise, think about your OWN driving responsibilities.\n\nI am sorry about the loss of your friends, but it could just as well\nbeen the idiot who bought a Volvo because he has problems falling asleep at the\nwheel.\n\nEric", "\ncjackson> I am very glad to know that none of you judgemental little shits has\ncjackson> ridden/driven when too tired, sleepy, hungover, angry, or distracted\ncjackson> in the last 3 years. Why, if you had then you might be just as guilty\n\nSome of us not-so judgmental little shits don't drive/ride when we're\nimpaired. I stopped doing that sort of thing when a good friend of\nmine got killed by a drunk driver who failed to stop for a red and\ndrove through the side of her volvo in his '72 caddy.\n\nThen again, I suspect most of the responsible adults on the net don't\nbother posting in flame wars on rec.moto.\n\ncjackson> \"There is no justification for taking away individuals' freedom\ncjackson> in the guise of public safety.\" -- Thomas Jefferson\n\nHe also owned slaves, kept some as forced concubines, and had enough\nresources to do what he wanted without fear of reprisal. Then again,\nhe also smoked dope.", "Now, my ego with regards to my shifting ability is as big as anyone else's, but\nI just ordered my first car with an auto trans. I wasn't planning on it; but\nafter driving a few I was convinced: Things have changed since the days of \n\"Slip 'n' Slide Withe Powerglide\". They shift *better* than I do, there's no\nclutch to wear out (Honda wanted $800 for my 4WD wagon last year!- got it done\nfor $500), it only costs about 5% in gas milage on the highway and it makes it\neasier to concentrate on all the radios in my car ;-)\n\n(Oddly enough, while two of my best friends- both in the auto industry here in the \nMotor City- have switched wholeheartedly to autos, their wives *insist* on \nmanual. Shift envy?)\n\nBraggadocio aside, given today's technology and the warranties they're handing \nout the auto trans seemed like an excellent choice. Call me a convert.", "I've had my Subaru Liberty 4WD station wagon for about 8 months now. Saying\nI'm happy with it would be an understatement!\n\nJust great. Well built, handles beautifully, plenty of power. I've only\nhad if 'off tar' once. Did a trip over the mountains on a narrow, windy\ndirt road, often _very dodgey_ in parts. The Subaru did it with ease.\nI havent had so much fun driving a car for years!\n\nAny other owners out there?", "\n\tHeed this man's warnings! If you get carb cleaner this strong on\nyour hands, your hands will be eaten away. Not pretty. Hence the \"dipping\ncan\" method.\n\nLater,", "You can also just put the detector off to the side on the dash so the cop\ndoesn't see it right away...Valentine is the best detector by far (as stated\nby Car and Driver) and even tells you what direction the radar is coming from.\n It also gives the amount of \"threats\" it is picking up, so if you go through\n the same place everyday, and it always goes off there, you can glance at the\n number of \"threats\" the Valentine is detecting to see if it is a genuine cop.\n It's about $300 and you can only get it factory direct..one problem.\n Rob Fusi\n rwf2@lehigh.edu", "\nOn the cars mentioned - 3 series from the late 80's the \"electronic\"\nodometer is really a mechanical drum type odometer, that is driven\nby pulses from a speed sensor on the rear axle. These pulses are \nconverted into mechanical pulses that turn the odometer - and speedometer.\nNo way changing or erasing an eprom is going to change the mileage\nreading. It also means the odometer is just as easy (or hard) to\nchange as any other mechanical odometer.\n\nOn the other hand it is a bit easier to disconnect the speed sensor\nand run the car with no speedometer or odometer reading...a simple\nswitch will do the job. It also will disable the speed limiter,\nwhich will enable the car to reach it's full speed. ;-)\n\n", "What jetting do you recommend for a ZX-11 (with standard mufflers) instead of\nthe standard one (idle-38, main-155).\nCheers.\n", "Don't find out if she has to pee by scaring it out of her.\n\nDon't armorall the seat just before her first ride even if you think\nyou will need its urine-proofing qualities.", "@>>\n@>>Has anyone had any experience with GEICO's extended\n@>>warranty plan. It seems to be slightly less expensive than\n@>>the normal dealer-sponsored policy.\n@>>\n@>and once again....*never* buy extended warranties....they are a complete and\n@>total ripoff period!!!! you are better off taking your money and putting it\n@> \nin a bank and using that money for repairs. many extended warranties never\n@>pay or have co-payments etc. \n@>\n\n\nHow many people will actually put that money in the bank and keep it there for the\nsole use of a automotive repair......maybe for people who have a hard time saving\nmoney or don't want the hassle of worrying about paying for everything the \nextended warranty is worth it.....for some people it is worth it...others not, and\nfor some the peace of mind knowing you won't have too many unexpected expenses\nis enough.....if you drive a lot, your basic warranty can be up in a little longer than\na year....how many people can make the car payments as well as large repairs....\n\nIt may work for some people......\n\nAndrew\n\n\n--", "\n\n\n\nCome to Louisiana where it is LEGAL to carry concealed weapons on a bike!\n\n ----===== DoD #8177 = Technician(Dr. Speed) .NOT. Student =====----", "\n I am curious about knowing which commericial cars today\n have v engines.\n\n V4 - I don't know of any.\n V6 - Legend, MR3? MR6?\n\nVW Golf/Passat 2.8l VR6 (inline V6!), very narrow angle (11 deg?), one head.\nAudi 80/100 2.6/2.8l V6\n\n V8 - Don't know of any.\n\nAudi V8 3.6/4.2l\nSome MBs\nSome BMWs\n\n V12 - Jaguar XJS\nBMW 750/850\nMB *600*\n\n Please add to the list.\n\n\n Thanks,\n -S\n ssave@ole.cdac.com", "\n\tThe word is \"subrogation.\" Seems to me, if you're willing to wait\nfor the money from scumbag's insurance, that you save having to pay the\ndeductible. However, if scumbag's insurance is Scum insurance, then you may\nhave to pay the deductible to get your insurance co.'s pack of rabid, large-\nfanged lawyers to recover the damages from Scum insurance's lawyers.\n\n\tSad, but true. Call it job security for lawyers.\n\nLater,", " If it looks like a miniature corvette it would be an opel GT,the\n headlights are flipped over by pulling a lever inside.>\n\n\n", "\n\nHandlebar mounted windshields on windy days are no fun at all. It has been \nwindy as hell down here for a week or so and it plays hell with the steering.\nOh, I still ride. I just bitch a lot about it!\n\n ----===== DoD #8177 = Technician(Dr. Speed) .NOT. Student =====----", "\nYou can go to the DMV and ask for their listing. Although I\ndon't know where you may actually buy a copy, you can use theirs\nfor your perusal. In California, the listing of personalized\nlicense plates run 3 volumes, each about 1.5\" thick. I hope this\nis what you're asking for.\n\n\nKen", "I am selling my Sportster to make room for a new FLHTCU.\nThis scoot is in excellent condition and has never been wrecked or abused.\nAlways garaged.\n\n\t1990 Sportster 883 Standard (blue)\n\n\tfactory 1200cc conversion kit\n\n\tless than 8000 miles\n\n\tBranch ported and polished big valve heads\n\n\tScreamin Eagle carb\n\n\tScreamin Eagle cam\n\n\tadjustable pushrods\n\n\tHarley performance mufflers\n\n\ttachometer\n\n\tnew Metzeler tires front and rear\n\n\tProgressive front fork springs\n\n\tHarley King and Queen seat and sissy bar\n\n\teverything chromed\n\n\tO-ring chain\n\n\tfork brace\n\n\toil cooler and thermostat\n\n\tnew Die-Hard battery\n\n\tbike cover", "\n\n\n\tWhen I got my knee rebuilt I got back on the street bike ASAP. I put\nthe crutches on the rack and the passenger seat and they hung out back a\nLONG way. Just make sure they're tied down tight in front and no problemo.\n-- \nGo fast. Take chances.", "hello there\nican anyone who has handson experience on riding the Yamaha v-max, pls kindly\ncomment on its handling .\n\n\n", "}Crazy question: \"Anyone ever wonder how birds can drop a load on a car\n}going over 65 MPH\" ? \n}\n}I took a non-stop trip, got shitted on FOUR times (every time hitting the \n}windshield, not even the open sunroof! Guess we have conscientious birds ;)\n}Was going 75 MPH.\n}\n}\n\nI used to have a '67 Galaxie convertible, was sitting at a light waiting\nfor it to turn green. It turned green, but I hesitated a little (sleeping I\nguess) and a bird bombed me, it landed directly in front of me at eye\nlevel, I guess the bird miscalculated and thought I was going to take off\nright away.\n\nAnd I'm still trying to figure out the one I got under my rear bumper as\nwell ?!?!?! Was the bird flying up and doing fancy acrobatics at my car and\ndecided to drop one while executing a perfect loop??\n\n-- \n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\n TT030 |'87 Mustang GT |George Kirkaldie\n ||| |Pioneer, Audio Control |gkirkaldie@sanity.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca\n ||| |Phoenix Gold, Kicker |\n / | \\ |Flowmaster, Motorsport |Cambridge, Ontario, Canada\nA T A R I | |", "Save youself the cash. Take it from a BMW mechanic. Idiot lights are for just that. Buy yourself a ballpoint pen and write it down yourself. Change your oil every 3000 mi. and you will be just fine.", "For Sale 1988 Honda CBR600 (Hurricane). I bought the bike at the end of\nlast summer and although I love it, the bills are forcing me to part with\nit. The bike has a little more than 6000 miles on it and runs very strong.\nIt is in nead of a tune-up and possibly break pads but the rubber is good.\nI am also tossing in a TankBag and a KIWI Helmet. Asking $3000.00 or best\noffer. Add hits newspaper 04-20-93 and Micronews 04-23-93. Interested \nparties can call 206-635-2006 during the day and 889-1510 in the evenings\nno later than 11:00PM. \n", "I have tested both vehicles (identically\nequipped), both for week-long periods.\nCuriously (and consider these are test\nvehicles), I found the Mercury higher\nin build quality than the Nissan.\n\nEither choice is good, but beware that\nI did not experience reasonable mileage\nwith the V6. Average city driving was\n<15mpg, with about 21 avg. on the highway.\n\nBoth were optioned to the hilt (the Nissan\nhad leather!). The Villager was in the\n$24K range and the Nissan was over $26K.", "\nContinuously, on this forum, and on the street, you find quite a difference\nbetween the opinions of what motorcycling is to different individuals.\nCruiser-bike riders have a different view of motorcycling than those of sport bike riders\n(what they like and dislike about motorcycling). This is not closed-minded. \nTo NOT RECOGNIZE this, is in effect, close-minded.\n\n\nI scan it for information, a lot of it is NOISE and pointless flame-age.\n(it's why I used trn, instead of rn)\n\nIf you have a problem with that, I'm really sorry for you..\n\n\n\n\n-- \n=> Dan DeClerck | EMAIL: declrckd@rtsg.mot.com <=\n=> Motorola Cellular APD | <=\n=>\"Friends don't let friends wear neon\"| Phone: (708) 632-4596 <=", "\n\n\n\n\n\nBzzt.\nThe manta was a two-door sedan in the US.\nIt had a 1900 engine.\nWas sometimes referred to as an Opel 1900.\nManta's are also ve hot and fun cars too.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n", "The restriction could have to do with the car being a convertible.\n\nA lot of paronoid laws were passed concerning convertibles in the 80's.\nThese states may require greater rollover protection than the Capri affords.\n\n Thatch Harvey\n", "\n\n\nOtherwise you get NO2 out the back.", "...and in San Francisco recently, some of our finest examples of humanity\npoured oil over a road so that vehicles going uphill would suddnely become\nimmobile, and then they would walk right up to the vehicles and make their\ndemands known.\n--------------------------------+---------------------------------------\nMark Barnes, System Engineer | \nSunSoft |\nCorporate Technical Escalations | I speak for myself, an individual,\nMenlo Park, CA, USA | not for the company for which I work.\nbarnesm@vavau.Corp.Sun.COM |\n--------------------------------+---------------------------------------\n\n", "\ned>1. All of us that argue about gyroscopes, etc., throughly understand\ned>the technique of countersteering.\n\nme>Including all the ones who think that they countersteer all the way\nme>through a corner??\n\ned>Well... all the way through a decreasing-radius corner, anyway...\n\nMaybe they are riding around an ever-decreasing circle of lies which\neventually leads to the truth....\n\n\n\nme>The official line here (though I do have my doubts about it) is that the\nme>front brake is applied first, followed by the rear brake, the idea being\nme>that you avoid locking up the rear after weight transfer takes place. \n\n\nMe too, though unfortunately the \"Official Line\" is the one that you\nhave to adhere to if you want to get a full licence. The examiner's\nguidelines are laid down by the government, and the basic rider education\ncourses have no choice but to follow them. It surprises me that none of the\nrider groups here, either MAG or the BMF make much noise about the fact that\nthe riding test requires you to ride three feet from the kerb all the time\nin order to pass, that the front brake must be applied before the rear, that\nyou have to keep looking over your shoulder all the time (instead of just\nwhen it is justified) - there's probably a few more too, which I can't\nthink of for the moment. If the riding test could be rejigged a bit \nto include more of the real-world survival skills and less of the \nwoefully simplistic crap that it contains now, then the accident figures\nwould (imho) reduce still further.\n\nDon't think we should include countersteering knowledge in our test though...", "I am planning on buying a repair manual for my ford taurus. (92).\nIs the $53 Ford shop manual comprehensive enough , covering repairs\nin all aspects of the car ?\n\n\n\nhow about the haynes manual for tarus ?\n\nplease email replies if possible.", "From mikefran Wed Apr 21 11:08:28 EDT 1993\nArticle: 56 of csc.general\nNewsgroups: dc.forsale,dc.general,um.general,csc.general\nPath: wam.umd.edu!mikefran\nFrom: mikefran@wam.umd.edu (Michael Francis)\nSubject: Car for Sale\nMessage-ID: <1993Apr21.142729.7039@wam.umd.edu>\nKeywords: 1981 Volkswagon Scirocco\nSender: usenet@wam.umd.edu (USENET News system)\nNntp-Posting-Host: rac3.wam.umd.edu\nOrganization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park\nDistribution: csc,um,dc\nDate: Wed, 21 Apr 1993 14:27:29 GMT\n\n\n1981 Volkswagon Scirocco \n\n Gold exterior and interior\n 5 speed transmission\n AM/FM Stereo with cassette\n Sunroof\n Engine in good condition\n New Tires\n Needs $300 work on front left control arm because of damage caused by\n pothole.\n Runs well \n Asking $800.00 AS IS / OBO.", "I have an '89 Kawasaki KX 80. It is in mint condition and starts on the first\nkick EVERY time. I have outgrown the bike, and am considering selling it. I\nwas told I should ask around $900. Does that sound right or should it be\nhigher/lower?\n Also, I am looking for a used ZX-7. How much do I have to spend, and what\nyear should I look for to get a bike without paying an arm and a leg????\n Thanks for the help!\n\n Rob Fusi\n rwf2@lehigh.edu", "RADAR (Radio Association Defending Airwave Rights) says that Geico\ninsurance not only buy's Radar for police but also actively lobbies\nstates to promote making Radar Detectors illegal. I think the\nbuying part is a misuse of money but the Radar Detector part shows\nhow little they know about the issue. No study I am aware of has ever\nconcluded that detectors have a negative impact on safety or that\nusers have a higher average speed. Incompetence by Geico? I think\nso.\n\n\nTroy Wecker\ntroy@sequent.com\nSequent Computer Systems\nBeaverton, OR\n", "\n Not with a hub cap but one of those \"Lumber yard delivery\ntrucks\" made life interesting when he hit a 'dip' in the road\nand several sheets of sheetrock and a dozen 5 gallon cans of\nspackle came off at 70 mph. It got real interesting for about\n20 seconds or so. Had to use a wood mallet to get all the dried\nspackle off Me, the Helmet and the bike when I got home. Thanks \nto the bob tail Kenworth between me and the lumber truck I had\na \"Path\" to drive through he made with his tires (and threw up\nthe corresponding monsoon from those tires as he ran over\nwhat ever cans of spackle didn't burst in impact). A car in\nfront of me in the right lane hit her brakes, did a 360 and\nnailed a bridge abutment half way through the second 360.\n\nThe messiest time was in San Diego in 69' was on my way\nback to the apartment in ocean beach on my Sportster and\nhad just picked up a shake, burger n fries from jack in\nthe box and stuffed em in my foul weather jacket when the\nmilk shake opened up on Nimitz blvd at 50 mph, nothing\nlike the smell of vanilla milk shake cooking on the\nengine as it runs down your groin and legs and 15 people\nwaiting in back of you to make the same left turn you are.", ": I need help with my '85 ZX900A, I put Supertrapp slip-on's on it and\n: had the carbs re-jetted to match a set of K&N filters that replaced\n: the stock airbox. \n\n\tAhh, and just how were the carbs rejeted to \"match\" the changes\nyou made to the bike? A stage three kit from K/N or Dynojet?\n\n: Now I have a huge flat spot in the carburation at : about 5 thousand RPM\nin most any gear. \n\t\n\tIsn't rejetting fun? \n\n: This is especially frustrating\n: on the highway, the bike likes to cruise at about 80mph which happens\n: to be 5,0000 RPM in sixth gear. I've had it \"tuned\" and this doesn't\n: seem to help. I am thinking about new carbs or the injection system\n: from a GPz 1100. Does anyone have any suggestions for a fix besides\n: restoring it to stock?\n: \n\n\tNew CARBS??? Why would that fix it? you still have to get the \njetting right to match what seems to be a extremely overly lean condition.\nYou added a more free flowing exhaust, and then higher flowing filters. \nChances are it's to lean. BUT! This may not be,that's the big fun with \ncarb tuning. It's _very_ tricky. \n\n\tYour one and only choice (unless you want to spend many hours\nfiddling with the carbs) is to take it to a guy witha Dyno and have he\ntune the carbs for your current set up. Otherwise you'll be playing\na guessing game for a long time...\n\n ==============================================================================\n Erik Astrup AFM #422 DoD #683 \n\n 1993 CBR 900RR * 1990 CBR 600 * 1990 Concours * 1989 Ninja 250 ", "I recently sold my Nighthawk in order to upgrade to a zippy little sport\nbike. I am, however, partial to the bigger zippy bikes like the GSX-R 750.\n\nThere is only one in my town for sale, and he is not sure whether he wants\nto part with it or not!\n\nPlease send me email if you would like to sell yours, know of one for sale,\nor could just offer details on the performance of yours even if you wouldn't\nsell.\n\nI appreciate any help!\n\nTHE HYPEMAN", "\nOh dear, time for me to try to remember my chemistry. Let's see if I\ncan find the formulae somewhere in the dim recesses of my mind.\n Ha! I knew there was a double bond! Now\nhow shall I show that in ASCII? \n\n MEK: Acetone:\n\n C - C - C - C C - C - C\n # #\n O O\n\nThe hydrogens are not shown, and # represents double bond. MEK has a\nmethyl (CH3) on one side, and an ethyl (C2H5) on the other. Acetone\nhas two methyls. So acetone is not methyl ethyl ketone, but instead\nis dimethyl ketone. Both solvents have similar properties. I think\nthat MEK may be a little less flammable but a lot worse to breathe.\nIt's a lot harder to buy MEK than it once was. Use acetone.\n\nNail polish remover consists almost entirely of acetone. If you buy\nsome for your workshop, get the very cheapest, because the more\nexpensive kind has oils and perfumes that you don't need.", "\nI don't understand this last statement about the '90Vanagon...Our '90Vanagon\nOwner's Manual RECOMMENDS 20W50 !!", "I was posting to Alt.locksmithing about the best methods for securing \na motorcycle. I got several responses referring to the Cobra Lock\n(described below). Has anyone come across a store carrying this lock\nin the Chicago area?\n\nAny other feedback from someone who has used this?\n\nThanks for any info.,\n\nSteve\n\n\n", "\n\nYes, however, with the top off and the rear window down this car is more \nlike a convertible than a coupe. Think of it as a convertible with an \nintegrated roll-bar like addition.", "I know this is the wrong place to post this, but I couldn't find any\nrelevant newsgroups in my area.\n\nFor those of you who are from PA, where is VASCAR (where the cops\nmeasure your speed from the time it takes you to cross the distance\nbetween two white lines on the road, right?) most commonly used? I'm\nespecially interested in the Pittsburgh area (specific locations, prior\nexperiences, if possible). For those PA and non-PA, if they use VASCAR\nin your state, is it most common in rural, city, highway areas, etc. \nWhat I'm interested in mainly is where I can speed with the least risk\nof being caught. You can always detect radar, but there's no way to\nfight VASCAR unless you know where all the white lines are.\n\nThanks a lot,", "\nThat's pretty good.\n\nA friend had an Audi that he named Murphy.", "I'm glad this forum came up. I've been pricing insurance lately and had considered GEICO. But no more!! Any company with practices like theirs can\nE.S.A.D.!! I'll stay with Liberty mutual.\n\nSteve Nicholas\nWells Computer Center - Georgia State University\noprsfnx@gsusgi1.gsu.edu", "\n\n\nWell, if you want to stick the nose of your car up the ass of a 50 foot semi, I\nsuppose it's your neck, however, I'm not going to let you kill me in the bargain.\nIf you get frustrated by somebody delaying your inevitable death due to less that\nwise driving practices, then TOUGH!!!\n\n\n\n\n\n\"Thank God for the Fourth of July, for it yearly rids the earth of a considerable\nload of fools\"", "\nI have this same alarm installed in my Syclone. It works great. The shock\nsensor is very sensitive, but much more practical than the motion sensor I have\non my other car. It doesn't trigger if the car is rocked gently by the wind,\nbut any kind of shock sets it off. Even kicking the tire sets it off. It\nworks great.\n\n\nThe shock sensor is adjustable and there are two cycles on it. You can adjust\nit to be sensitive enough that there is no way you could open the hood without\nsetting off the alarm. Although, I know that you cannot pop the hood on the\nSyclone without setting off my alarm now, and yet I have had zero (none!) false\nalarms with this system. The alarm tells you when you disarm it whether it has\nbeen activated in your absence. I have been able to trace every alarm to it's\ncause and it was not a false alarm.\nI guess it would be possible depending on the vehicle. My Syclone is so tight\nin the engine compartment that it would be tough to do this. There are\nsupplemental power supplies you can put on with this Viper alarm, but I don't\nhave one. I really think that if someone wants my car that bad, the alarm\nwon't keep them from it, even with a supplemental power supply.\n\nThis is primarily for convertibles. I have a convertible and have looked at\nthis feature in detail. Alpine actually makes a better radar unit if you want\nto get one of these. It has zones in it that can be shut down independently so\nthat if one side of your car has pedestrian traffic or something else that\nwould trigger an alarm, it shuts down the zone, or rather, pulls it in tighter.\nI don't see the real benefit to these unless you have a convertible that you\nleave the top down on.\n\nAvoid the voice alarm that can be added to the radar package. It talks to\npeople as they walk by. I saw one installed on a Lotus Esprit. The kids would\ntaunt it seeing how close they could get before it 'warned' them to get back. \nThe owner finally disabled it, which defeats the purpose in my mind.\nI am real happy with my Viper. One other feature I really like is you can tune\nit to your preferences. You can have it arm passively or not. You can disable\nthe chirp for arming/disarming. You can have it lock/unlock the doors when the\nalarm is armed/disarmed. \n\nI like these features. I hate the chirp when the alarm arms/disarms, so mine\nflashes the lights only. I like the door lock feature, although I have to be\ncareful to take my keys with me because it doesn't know if you have left your\nkeys in the car when it passively arms and locks the doors. But, if you are\nmeticulous about taking your keys with you, it takes care of the rest.\n\nI looked seriously at the Alpine system too. It is a real nice system, but\nmore money and it has a motion sensor standard instead of the shock sensor. \nThe shock sensor is better....and the Viper shock sensor is better (2 cycle)\nthan the optional Alpine one, IMHO. I think the Viper gives you a lot of good\nvalue for the money. But it isn't absolutely tamperproof. No system is. \nExcept maybe the one that James Bond had on his Lotus in For Your Eyes Only. \nAnyone know where we can get one of those installed? Maybe that was what they\nhad in the van in the World Trade Center, huh?>\n", "\n\nIf a manual transmission is a \"must have\", then the M-B 300TE is not in\nthe running. You cannot get a manual transmission in that car in North\nAmerica. It seems that buyers here (or, maybe more accurately, the\ndistributors) are not interested in manual trannies.\n\nThe '93 300 line comes with a 217 hp engine. All earlier years are 177 hp.\nI have an '87 300E, with a \"mere\" 177 hp and auto tranny, and I find that\nit has sufficient power for any normal driving situation. More is always\nnice, but I can't complain.\n\nI test drove a Saab 900 CSE last fall. Here are my impressions:\n\n1) Awesome power, especially over 3500rpm, when the turbo really comes on.\n2) If you get on the power really hard in a tight corner, the front-wheel\n drive causes it to understeer heavily, and then viciously \"hook\" into\n the corner. Not a desirable handling trait, but common in powerful\n front drive cars. (The CSE is 200hp. Mercedes is rear-drive, so it\n does not have this problem.)\n3) Huge interior and cargo space.\n4) The most \"rubbery\" shifter I have ever encountered. I drove a 5spd. It\n was absolutely numb. You might be able to get used to it - I don't know.\n I also didn't like its location, which was too far down, and too far right.\n From the shifter's position, I got the impression that Saab really designed\n the car for an automatic.\n5) It was rather noisy: Engine buzz, rattles, and creaks. (Mercedes does\n not exhibit these characteristics.)\n\nYou should also check out the new BMW 525 \"touring\". This is a wagon version\nof the 525i. It fits into the class with the 300TE and Saabs.\n", "Charles Parr, on the Tue, 20 Apr 93 21:25:10 GMT wibbled:\n\n: >If Satan rode a bike (CB1000?) would you stop to help him?\n\n: Of course! We riders have to stick together, you know...Besides,\n: he'd stop for me.\n\n: Satan, by the way, rides a Vincent. So does God.\n\n: Jesus rides an RZ350, the Angels get Ariels, and the demons\n: all ride Matchless 500s.\n\n: I know, because they talk to me through the fillings in my teeth.\n\n: Regards, Charles\n: DoD0.001\n: RZ350\n: -- \n: Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of\n: separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,\n: struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing\n: gourd. --Unknown net.person\n\n\nI think that the Vincent is the wrong sort of bike for Satan to ride.\nHonda have just brought out the CB1000 (look in BIKE Magazine) which\nlooks so evil that Satan would not hesitate to ride it. 17-hole DMs,\nLevi 501s and a black bomber jacket. I'm not sure about the helmet,\noh, I know, one of those Darth Vader ones. There you go. Satan.\nAnybody seen him lately? Just a cruisin'?\n\nGod would ride a Vincent White Lightning with rightous injection.\nHe'd wear a one-piece leather suit with matching boots, helmet and gloves.\n--\n\nNick (the Righteous Biker) DoD 1069 Concise Oxford New (non-leaky) gearbox\n\nM'Lud.", "Bottom line: I did it and it worked.\n\nSome 'tips and techniques' are included here:\n\n\nI found that I needed some smaller sockets to undo the shocks.\nAnd a can of WD40 helped...\n\nThe sockets needed were metric (exact fit) but I was able to use\nsome SAE sockets... 13/16 and 15/16 are rather close to 21 and 24mm...\nIt CAN be fun having a Canadian Ford ...\n\n\nDidn't have to undo the end bolts/bushings. Just the 2 U bolts on\neach side and the shock absorber. Jacking up the frame some more\n(had to put the spare tire on the garage floor and put a wooden \nplatform on top of that to get the 'floor jack' high enough to\nraise the frame ... I't one TALLL truck...) lifted the spring\nfree of the axel. Taking out the block gave me enough room to\nundo the pin holding the spring pack together.\n\nThe spring pack was held together with a nut on top and a round head\non the other end.... No wrench head... Vice Grips worked fine...\nI soaked the nut with WD40 and it came right off.\n\nFlipped the bottom spring and then...\n\n\nI donno ... I'm a little more sore today than after working on a\n1911A1 ...\n\nA 1.5 foot pipe cheater was a real help. Torque spec for the U bolt\nnuts is 150 to 200 ft-lbs (!). A 1911-A1 doesn't have that kind of\ntorque spec ...\n\nIt was a 'challenge' to get the 'pack bolt' back in the spring pack. \nSqueeze pack with two hands, hold bolt with third, put nut on\nwith fourth while picking up wrench and vice grips with fifth\nand sixth hands ... I used some string to tie the pack together\nwhile holding the pin in for alignment... then I could let go\nto get the {nut, wrench, Vice Grips...}.\n\nGetting the pin back lined up with the lift block was a challenge too...\nuntil I discovered that the axel had 1) Tilted and/or 2) rolled forward.\n\nOne the drivers side, a bottle jack under the front of the differential\ntilted it back in line enough for the pin head to drop into the right\nhole. On the passenger side, I had to wrestle the wheel into rolling\nforward about 1/2 inch to get things to line up. Spent more than an\nhour working on getting the pin head into the hole in the lift block\nwith levers and ropes and impliments of distruction before I took a \nbreak and thought about WHY it wasn't lined up anymore (since it HAD\nbeen lined up before, and *I* didn't move it, something ELSE must \nhave ... hmmm, axle no longer constrained not to move ... hmmm, move \nit back... hmmm...).\n\nAfter that, it was all much easier to 'close up'.\n\nBTW, the ride is now softer, but not quite as soft as I was hoping for.\nAt least it now sits level..\n\n-- \n\nE. Michael Smith ems@apple.COM\n\n'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has\n genius, power and magic in it.' - Goethe", "\nHuh? Did this guy just invent wreck.motorcycles?\n\n\tCurious minds want to know.\n", "\n\tI was hoping for something like \"The chassis exhibits X \ndegrees of flex when subjected to forces of more than Y units.\nForces of more than Y units begin to manifest at Z miles per hour.\"\n\n\tNot \"Well, gee, it wasn't designed to go fast because, uhh,\nwell, gee, it wasn't designed to go fast. It's not a Porsche, you\nknow\".\n\n\n\tWell, as compared to the normal Taurus, the SHO comes\nwith more supportive seats,better brakes,a stiffer suspension,\ndifferent tires, and a body design that takes advantage of aero\neffects to keep the car on the ground (or at least I think that's\nwhat all that boy-racer plastic is for). You're kidding yourself if\nyou think any car on the road has a passenger compartment made to\nwithstand 130 MPH impacts. \n\n\n\tOh, right. Only 120,000 dollar cars should be driven fast.\nThey drive goddamn Rabbits at 120 MPH in Europe, pal, and I reckon\na Taurus is at least as capable as a Rabbit.\n\n\n\tOf course not. \"Speeding-is-bad. Speeding-is-illegal. \nI-will-not-speed. I-love-Big-Brother.\" You had your mind made up\nalready.\n\n\tIt's interesting that lots of the roads out west had *NO*\nspeed limits until 1975. ", "\n\n\ngimme a break! you KNOW chevy'd screw that up just like that almost great\ntruck with the \"big phat 454\". Have you ever seen the mufflers on that \nthing??it's amazing it moves....(which isn't to say it's not a good idea,\nbut i'm quite sure chevy'd screw it up the same way)", " ^^^^^^^^^^\nI have a 92 Wrangler Sahara and paid $14.1 new (including the rebate).\n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nAfter driving a CJ-5 for 6 years, that fancy stuff is pretty nice.\n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^\nI like my Wrangler, but when doing some serious off roading, it can't\nkeep up with a CJ-5 because of ground clearance and limited suspension\ntravel. I do have a winch and would like to get an ARB air-locker in the\nfuture.\n\n\nI love the 4.0. \n", "\n\nIt's the DoD license plate frame; cops really like 'em. Either that, or\nhe mistook you for one of his friends, possibly an off-duty cop.\n\n-Dave\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\t\"I need your clothes, your boots, and your motorcycle\"\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t- Arnold Schwarzenegger, T2", "Having had my car die on me(engine fire, insurance agent said\nit was probably totaled), I am in the market for a another vehicle.\nI saw a Toronado that was within my expected price range and was\nwondering if anybody could relate their experiences with me.\n\nNamely: 1. Does it have accceptable power(it has a 305 in it)?\n\t 2. Does its being front wheel drive make maintenance difficult?\n\t 3. One power window and the power seat do not work, are these\n\t\texpensive items to replace if I do the work myself?\n\t 4. How long do the engines usually last( 90M+ now)?\n\t 5. Any other experiences good or bad, and opinions.", "\nWe were having a problem with instability in the universal gravitational\nconstant that day: the closer I got to those exposed fangs (still dripping,\nno doubt, with the viscera of the last foolhardy experimenter cum canine\npsychology) the bigger and heavier the dog appeared to become. Also, \nrecall that the distribution of the ~150lb is one five pound jaw+teeth \noperated by two 70lb muscles driven by a .005 ounce brain possessing an\ninstinctual heuristic composed of equal parts of bloodlust and ravening hunger.\nThe other ~5 lb is, of course, dog poop, but that varies all over the place \nas the dog deposits it regularly on the painstakingly manicured and tended \nlawns of the dog's owner's neighbors (whilst continuously replenishing its\ninexhaustible supply, no doubt by consuming the likes of folks like me).\n\n\nMy very thought at the time, but as I looked down at these once formidable \ninstruments of mayhem, I realized they had become weak and atrophied by too\nmany sedentary hours tapping away at my ergonomically-correct CRT keyboard.\nThere was only one option left: I reached down to the toolbox near my\ncar and grasped my Craftsman 150 ft-lb torque wrench, surely the bludgeon\nof dire necessity if ever there was one. To my amazement and\nconfusion, the setter started shaking and rolling on the grass, then leapt\nto its feet and vanished down the street, still quivering and occasionally \nlooking back at me. \n\n\"Seven at One Blow!\" I exclaimed, flexing my new-found biceps and brandishing\nmy Terrible Weapon of Invincibility as I stalked the now-secure environs\nof my domicile. It was only later that I found out what the dog apparently\nknew all along: the wrench was defective, would no longer measure torque\naccurately, and Sears wouldn't fix it or replace it. What I had interpreted\nas fear and subservience were in fact unmitigated hilarity and contempt.\n\n\nExactly: nobody can look quite as silly as we can.", "\nI'll tell you my story as an example of what *not* to do.\n\nEarly in 1984 I took some riding lessons from my college roommate on\nhis old Honda CB360T. He had taken the MSF beginner's course, so I\nactually learned *some* of what I needed to know to ride.\n\nI proceeded to buy a beat-up Honda CL350 for $400 and a $12 helmet and\nrode around wearing this and a cotton windbreaker. Then I decided to\ninvest in a full-face helmet (first smart move). Sometime around then\nI also passed my road test.\n\nOn May 4, 1984, I got caught in a rainstorm on my way home from a\n4-mile trip. Entering the town where I lived (a rather urban suburb),\nI had to stop suddenly for a red light that I noticed too late,\nskidded the rear tire out, and was ejected face upward into the\noncoming lane of traffic. Fortunately for me the oncoming traffic was\nalso stopped for the same red light, otherwise I might have slid under\na car and been killed.\n\nNow this is anecdotal evidence, to be sure, but I later took the\nExperienced Rider Course from the MSF and saw that earlier training\ncould have helped me greatly. In your case the need is even greater\nsince you have nobody to help you practice even the most basic stuff\nas I did.\n\nSo my advice is to take the MSF beginner's course first thing. I\nwouldn't even buy a bike until you've taken the course, unless you\nhappen to pick up a real good deal and can store it someplace until\nyou're ready to use it.\n\n\nWhile you're waiting to take the course (it might take a few weeks in\nDC, as I recall there were always waiting lists in Boston), could you\nsave up some more money to start out right? Say $300 for riding gear,\nplus the cost bike, plus maybe $100 (guess) to a mechanic to make sure\nthe machine is safe (assuming you economize by buying some old beat-up\nmachine from a private individual), plus insurance, plus registration\nand licensing fees, plus the course, you're looking at maybe $600 not\nincluding the bike itself and a reserve for ongoing maintenance.\n\n\nI pay about $100 insurance now (upstate NY) but it was closer to $200\nin Boston (more urban) for decent insurance including substantial\ncoverage for liability, which you want unless you plan always to be\npoor. I'd guess DC is more like Boston than like a rural area, ergo\nmore expensive.\n\n\nThere used to be annual buyer's guides in the usual motorcycle\nmagazines; I found those helpful in getting an idea of what new or\nrecent models might be available. You could probably look through\npast issues to size up what used bikes might be available. (My first\nbike was 13 years old when I bought it so I went on my friend's advice\ninstead.) Also look at the bikes that you see people riding or that\nare parked on the street. I basically settled on my present bike by\nnoticing that there were a lot of high-mileage BMW's running around\nand they were generally set up the way I wanted.\n\nNothing wrong with talking to various dealers in your area or visiting\nshowrooms. Dealers in the Boston area, at least when I was shopping,\nwere very nice about letting you look around their showrooms and\nquoting prices for bikes that weren't the latest models (hence\ncheaper), although I ended up buying both bikes in private sales.", "\n\nI have been checking out bikes (hoping for lowish seats) for a few weeks. A\nHonda Twinstar (250cc) fit me well, a Honda Hawk (400cc) did not, the\nKawasaki 250HB/SB/SH? (can't remember) looked like it would fit me well but\nthe price tag was way too large...\n\n\nPlease post this list or mail me one too!\n\n(:", "To go one step further, you could write Roland Slabon, Pres. of the\nVintage BMW Motorcycle Owners Ltd at P.O. box 67, Exeter, New Hampshire \n03833 and he'll send you copy of the bimonthly rag with info as to where\nto send your $12 bucks if ya want to join. As far as the price of '60's\nBeemers, it varies wildly, from a low of around $1000 for an unrestored\nbike that still runs (like an R50 or R60) to $4500 or so for a restored\nR69S. Don't listen to that bull about the old bmw's not being \"good \nenough\" to ride in todays world.. Hell, I'm riding my 1956 R26 Single\nfrom Mississippi to the BMW MOA national rally in Oshkosh, Wisconsin\non the 22nd of July this year.\nSincerely,\nCraig Vechorik\nBMW MOA Ambassador #9462\nBMW Vintage \nBulletin tech editor #1373\nDOD #843\n\"REAL BMW's have ROUND tail lights and ROLLER cranks\"\n", "\n\nI took an alcohol server's class a few years ago. (What the hey- my employer\npaid for it...)\n\nWe were told that the 1 drink / hour rule was written with 80 proof booze\nand a 195 pound person in mind. Drinking Cuervo Gold, weighing in @ 140,\nI obviously will get drunk faster than the theoretical person mentioned\nabove. Worse, imagine Rum & coke made with Bacardi 151...\n\nMind you all, that's for getting too drunk to drive a car. I may only\nhave been riding for a month or so, but I plan my evenings with a very\nrigid exclusive or statement: Either don't drink, or don't ride.\nPretty simple.\n\n\nSorry, mike, I have to believe that that policy works best as fertilizer,\neven if all you plan to do is drive home nice and \"safe\" in your cage...\n\n\n", "The best auto-shifters on the street (AND NOT THE TRACK) are those from \nPorsche... they wont change if you floor the gas during a turn.... a few \nyears back a was in a 200SX auto (you guys call it a 240SX [without turbo])\nand was going round a corner.... I floored it and next thing I know I was \npointing backwards! The other drivers seemed quite amused ;-)", "Hi Javier, (how are things at Corp, my old stomping ground was c-level?)\nVibration when applying the brakes can be caused, on disc brakes at least,\nby warped rotors. When the brakes are applied, there results uneven pressure\non the rotor. Turning the rotors by a brake shop will remedy this problem\nas long as there is enough rotor width left for turning (i.e. within spec).\nThere could be some possible front end suspension problem but a brake shop\nshould be able to confirm warped rotors by a visual inspection which is free.\n", "\n\n\nI have been for a fairly hard run in an MX5, what they lack in power they\nsurely make up for in handling. Great for back streets with heaps of corners.\nThey are a fairly light car with a low center of gravity and a quite free\nrevving DOHC engine, a fun car. Have you driven a TURBO converted\nMX5? Now they are starting to perform! I've often thought a Mazda rotary\nwould go well in the XM5 too....anyone done it?\n\nRegards Scott.\n_______________________________________________________________________________\nScott Fisher [scott@psy.uwa.oz.au] PH: Aus [61] Perth (09) Local (380 3272). \n _--_|\\ N\nDepartment of Psychology / \\ W + E\nUniversity of Western Australia. Perth [32S, 116E]--> *_.--._/ S\nNedlands, 6009. PERTH, W.A. v \n\nJoy is a Jaguar XJ6 with a flat battery, a blown oil seal and an unsympathetic \nwife, 9km outside of a small remote town, 3:15am on a cold wet winters morning.", "\n\nWell maintained chains, running in oil, without those little rubber 'O' rings \nto cause frictional losses, might reach 99% efficiency. The average open to \nthe dust 'O' ring motorcycle chain probably has a difficult job making 90% \nefficient.\n\n\nTony", "\nLack of build quality was the thing I notced on the first 2 LH's I\nsaw months back. The panel gaps were large and non-uniform between\nthe 2 cars I saw - the kind of thing you expect and accept on a\nMustang - but not from Chrysler's savior. I drove one of the low\nend cars, and thought it was more than adequate. I'd prefer\nan LH to a Taurus from my brief experience.\n\nCraig", "]Just wanted to say \"Thanks\" to everyone who sent me e-mail or\n]posted a reply to my question on the oil consumption in my K75S\n\nso what did _you_ decide?\n", "\nThey light the highways in Texas? Funny, everywhere else I've been\nthey only light 'em at junctions.\n\nI won't even get into how much road markings vary between states and\nlocalities except to say that there are some areas where markings are\nessentially nonexistant.\n\n\n\nI suspect you have very limited experience -- US freeways vary\ndramatically, particularly between states. I can name a number of\ninterstate highways in various parts of the country where 130 would be\nvery optimistic in any car.\n\nI'm not sure what you call \"quite severe\" in terms of road deviations\nbut I suspect every single bridge junction on I84 through CT would be\nconsidered so. They're hard to take at 85mph. That's not the only\ninterstate I've seen with such deviations, but it's one I drive\nfrequently.\n\nTexas is pretty much an edge-case -- you can't assume that everywhere\nhas roads in such good condition, such flat terrain, and such\nwide-open spaces. It just ain't so.", "\n\nOh, that's not so bad. Every time I try to change the oil, I forget to\nshut off the engine first. The hot oil comes out and scalds me, blinds\nme, then the engine starts to overheat, and while I'm screaming in agony\nand trying to crawl out from under the car, I grab the red hot exhaust\npipe and get third degree burns on my hands. My screams intensify as I\nfinally emerge from under the car, and I struggle to my feet in front of\nthe car, whereupon the radiator hose ruptures and sprays me with super\nheated coolant. Then the engine seizes, but not before the cylinder head\nexplodes, piercing my flesh with fragments of red hot iron.\n\nThis happens every time. I'm starting to think I should pay the mechanic\n$25 instead paying the hospital $250,000 and the dealer $25,000 for a new\ncar. This gets costly when you change the oil every 3000 miles.", "This morning a truck that had been within my sight (and I within\nhis) for about 3 miles suddenly forgot that I existed and pulled\nover right on me -- my front wheel was about even with the back\nedge of his front passenger door as I was accelerating past him.\n\nIt was trivial enough for me to tap the brakes and slide behind him\nas he slewed over (with no signal, of course) on top of me, with\nmy little horn blaring (damn, I need Fiamms!), but the satisfaction\nof being aware of my surroundings and thus surviving was not enough,\nespecially when I later pulled up alongside the bastard and he made\nno apologetic wave or anything.\n\nIs there some way that I can memorize the license plate of an\noffending vehicle and get the name and address of the owner?\nI'm not going to firebomb houses or anything, I'd just like to\nwrite a consciousness-raising letter or two. I think that it would\nbe good for BDI cagers to know that We Know Where They Live.\nMaybe they'd use 4 or 5 brain cells while driving instead of the\nusual 3.", "\nI would be scared of trying to fit the one piece. When I got my\ntwo piece, I got the jacket in 42 and the pants in 40 (just due\nto my manly-man of an athletic build, kind of thing) No laughing,\nplease. Seriously, I'm not trim and the 42 pants would have\nbeen way too big. Also, I don't think the 1 piece does provide\nbetter protection. If I'm wrong, I'll be swiftly if ever so gently\ncorrect by the net.pansies.of.knowledge (as they like to call themselves).\n\nRegards\nJack Waters II\nDoD#1919", "\nIt's exactly as dangerous as it looks. You're hard to see and have little\nprotection. Keeping out of trouble means knowing your limits, keeping your\nmachine in good shape and being able to predict and make up for every stupid\nmove that drivers make out there. We deal with it because it's fun, but\nstaying alive takes a conscious effort.", "What I usually use...and this stuff is only good on glass....is either Acetone,\nor a little Benzene. The latter of the two is a bit dangerous (possibly a \ncarcinogen(sp?)) but it usualy gets the job done. I imagine you can you the two\nsolvents on most metals as well as glass, but keep the stuff away from plastic.\nBetter yet, you may just want to go to your local hardware store and ask them\nwhat they use. \n", "\nthe transmission in my car contradicts both your assertions.. i get much\nstronger acceleration if i let the convertor lockup.. which i can induce\nby briefly lifting off, then quickly (but not too quickly to trigger\na kickdown) applying throttle. above 3000 rpms, the convertor will never\nunlock; it would kickdown first.\n\nwho says there's no skill involved in driving an automatic? i think\nof it as the throttle and shifter combined into a single pedal. with\nmy car i can pretty much influence its shifting patterns with my\nright foot, while having both hands to steer.\n", "released\n\nhere we go again...\nnow these are just rumors.. so dont quote me.\n\nNew Integra supposedly wedge shaped again. 175 hp and all-wheel drive\nin top models. Then a variant called the zx-r comes later. (roadster?).\n\ni think it gets unveiled at end of summer.", "\nBased on my experience with a '79 FJ40 ( the hard-top jeep-style model ) I \nwould definitely give a new model consideration if I were in the market. The\nolder models are VERY well built. Unless Toyota lost its mind, I would\nassume, until proven otherwise, that the newer models have inherited some\nif not all of the qualities of their ancestors.\n\nTwo major differences in the running gear (that I'm aware of) need study.\nMy '79 has a solid front axle housing whereas the newer models have\nindependant front suspension. The solid axle is theoretically stronger and\nmore reliable than the newer model, but only experience will tell. The\nindependant front suspension is, no doubt, a compromise made to satisfy\nthe typical user, who will never need a real utility vehicle. The second\ndifference is the type of transfer case used on the newer models. I'm\nnot sure, but I think Tioyota went to a full-time 4WD or all-wheel drive\nsystem. The older Landcruisers have a \"lock-up\" type. Both have their\nadvantages and disadvantages.", "\nAn even better strategy is to leave less of a buffer between you and\nthe car in front, but enough to manuver around it. Keep the bike in\n1st gear with the clutch handle squeezed in (how's that for\nengaged/disengaged?), until there are two cars stopped behind you.\n\nWhen the next BDI cager comes screaching in, simply ride up along side\nof the car in front of you. You don't need to panic and do it, or you\nwill pop the clutch and stall the engine. Do is smoothly, just\nrapidly. The cage in front of you will provide MUCH better protection\nthan anything else (particularly empty road).\n", "\n\n\nWhat do you find so wrong with the flat 6 in the Subaru's, or the flat 4 for that\nmatter?", "\n\nIn fact, they make some ,but they just don't sell them here in U.S.\n\nSunny California is a 1.6l wagon based on Sentra.\nAvenil is a 2.0l 4WD/2WD wagon .(It looks like Infinity G20 \nbut actually it's independently designed to be a wagon.I mean, it's \nnot based on any sedans.) \n \nNissan had better consider to sell them here.\n\n\n\nSounds nice. But I doubt they have a plan. Coz Avenil was introduced \nto replace any sedan based wagon.\n\n\n\n", "A list of options that would be useful. They can be existing\noptions on a car, or things you'd like to have...\n\n1) Tripmeter, great little gadget. Lets you keep rough track of\n mileage, makes a good second guesser for your gas gauge...\n\n2) Full size spare\n\n3) Built in mountings and power systems for radar detectors.\n\n4) a fitting that allows you to generate household current with\nthe engine running, and plug ins in the trunk, engine compartment\nand cabin.\n\nFeel free to add on...\n\nRegards, Charles\nx", "I'm just starting out with motorcycles, I've read up on the subject a bit,\ntalked to many of my friends who own/ride bikes and encourage me to do the\nsame. But when I ask about what kind of bike i should be looking at... i get\nvaried answers.\n\n\nI'm 6'3\", about 230#, large/athletic build... I suppose that would help to\ndetermine the size bike i'd want. I want something that's going to be fast and\npowerful enough to satisfy certain cravings once i'm used to it. I also want\nsomething that is not going to be like a bronc my first time out. Any ideas?! \n\n\n\n\nBill", "I second the boots... oil spots from cars are particularly\nslippery when parking the bikes, and good boots help here as\nwell.", "\nMy ex-husband & I used to own Borgwards. Haven't seen any for a long\ntime. They were really good cars. Does ayone out there know anything\nabout them now? I heard they were being made in Mexico, but of course\nthey wouldn't be the original German - if that's even true. When I've\nbeen in Mexico I haven't seen any. We loved ours, even tho' they were\nugly - they had names - one was Humphrey Borgward.\n", "\n\n\tThe statement above is _true_ to the spirit of the list because\n\tit is a false statement. Misinformation: that's the spirit, Bill.\n\n\tMy /5 will do wheelies because it's a chain drive model. ", "What about ethanol? It's available here in corn country and its octane is\nrated at 89 or 90 and costs the same as \"normal\" 87 octane.\n", "Want to sell a 1980 MAZDA GLC for $300 or b.o. Excellent working condition. Just\npassed inspection. Has a sun roof. No marks on body.\nContact soon kohli@ecs.umass.edu or (413_549-4738.", "I have the EuroWiper boots in White and had to throw away the first pair\nsince I found no way of cleaning them after they looked almost black. Now\nI have my second pair of white ones and once again they are dirty. I need\na way to clean them w/o removing them since I had to cut them to remove\nthem, is there a way? Or should I just buy black ones? \nthanks\n-Joel\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nJoel Sprechman sprec-j@acsu.buffalo.edu \nUniversity at Buffalo v069pff7@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu", "\nno, but somebody's dropped a ford 302 V-8 into the miata, somewhat\nreminiscent of the shelby cobra. the car's obviously not as nimble\nas before, but it's supposed to have a near 50/50 weight distribution\nand handle very well. i'd sure love to drive one.", "\n\nnot a flame, just a point: I'd be scared at 130 here, not because i feel\ndrivers who are STUPID. Like the ones who are doing 130 also, and so\nthey pull in right behind you at maybe 1-2 car lengths....oh yeah, real\nsmart... This scares me in cities at 50. When i can't see enough of\nthe car to make it recognizable, they are following TOO CLOSE. And \nwhen i see them doing this AND reading a newspaper.....*sigh*...this\nis why America has 55-65 speed limits: our drivers are TOO DUMB to realise\nthat reading the paper should be done at breakfast, or work, not in their\ncar. ", " It has some of the most impressive performance figures around, and automotive\n magazines eat it up. One car to seriously consider in that price range.\n\n Rob Fusi\n rwf2@lehigh.edu\n\n ", "Dumb move. \n\n The smart move would be to sneak in someone with a TV camera\nand video transmitter. ", "\nI would be concerned about how the car was driven and how well it was\nmaintained. I own a turbocharged one, and I would never buy a\nturbocharged vehicle unless I knew the owner and his/her\ndriving/maintenance habits.\n\n\nI have been wondering about that myself. The '90 AWD models and the\n'91s were identical (except for the ABS option). \n\n\nYes. Some owners had problems with the transaxles. Using\nsynthetic lubricants in the transaxles solved the problem in most\ncases. The problem was not unique to the AWDs, however. It was\ncommon to all models. The Galant VR4 and GSX had the same transaxle,\nbut I didn't see those listed in CR.\n\n\nI don't know of any major complaints in this area, except that the\nbattery that was installed at the factory had a low current rating. \n\n\nThe first FWD models (those built before May 1989) were recalled for\nbrake upgrades. Some FWD and AWD owners had problems with warped\nrotors. Those of us who insist on using manual torque wrenches every\ntime the lug nuts are tightened have never had a problem.\n\n\nI can refer you to someone who has gone through a set of pads in one\nday! It all depends on how you drive. It seems that most owners have\nbeen getting between 40-70k on a set of pads.\n\n\nFirst time I hear about a problem with the valve train on these cars,\nother than timing belt failures.\n\n\nIf your friend \"beats\" on the car, then his unit is not a\nrepresentative sample of the car's reliability.\n\nMy suggestion is instead of listening to the useless Consumer Reports,\ntalk to several owners (the mailing list may be the best way to reach\na few of them).\n\n\n#if (humor_impaired) skip_to TheEnd\nNo matter how much you pay, you won't get all three. Examples:\n\nNSX: reliability and looks.\nFerrari: reliability ^H^H^H^H^H^H (yeah, right!) speed and looks\n\nTheEnd\n--\nThe opinions stated above are not necessarily my employer's.", "\nGM, at least, is heading in that direction. One of the post-sale\nquestions they asked me was if I'd like the choice of a cigarette\nliter or an accessory plug, and another whether I'd like the choice of\nan ashtray or a cup holder.\n\nThe '93 Geo Storms have the cigarette lighter vs accessory plug option\n(which did not exist in the '92 I bought) -- I'm not sure about the\nash tray vs cup holder. It's a step in the right direction.\n\nThe ashtray does make a convenient change-holder so it's not\ncompletely useless.", "\nI told a newbie friend of mine, who was having trouble from the complicated\nexplanations of his rider course, to think of using the handlebars to lean,\nnot to turn. Push the right handlebar \"down\" (or pull left up or whatever)\nto lean right. It worked for him, he stopped steering with his tuchus.", "\n[Much discussion about economics of safety deleted]\n\n\nThis is a very simplistic view of safety. Assuming that you are in a collision\n(less likely with a more agile smaller car), then the important factor\nis how well does the car sacrifice itself to save you. This is why a thousand\npound F1 car can hit a wall at 200 and the driver walks out and why\neverybody dies when a Suburban hits a wall at 35 (as I recall for the last\ngeneration Suburban HIC numbers). \n\nAs an aside, just what is the point of an airbag? It seems to me that\nseatbelts with pretensioners (Audi et al), or a good tight 5 point belt \nwill prevent you every moving far enough to hit the airbag. You might be\n\nsaved from some flyign glass? Or is an airbag just a lowest common denominator\nsafety device that is of some use in a head on collision when you are\nwearing no seat belt? ", "Anyone have figures or pointers to references about \nhow fast/much car prices have gone up in the last decade?", "From article , by mikeh@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Mike Hollyman):\n\tI dont think its the carbs that are out, I would suspect that\nthe cam timing is out, & as you say that you had the head off, that\nwould make sense to me,\n\t\t\t\tIan.\n\n\tJust my 0.02 emu's worth.", "In the Dallas area, I just bought a can (it's for my best friend's bike... a\n1986 XLH883, mines got a belt hahahahaha!!!) for $6.79 ($7.35 with tax) at\nBates Discount Cycle Parts on the southbound I-35E service road in Farmers\nBranch just a couple miles north of the I-635/I-35E interchange. They have\nabout a dozen cans left.\n", "\nMy suggestion look at your current insurance card, there will be a name \naccross the top telling you which insurance company you are insured by.\nCall information in Houston and get the number of a branch office in the \nHouston area, call the insurance company.\n\nYour rates will vary depending on the amount of coverage you want,\ndo you want to carry comp and collision (probably not on an 82),\nwhat your driving record is. You mentioned none of these things in your\nposting so how can anyone give you accurate information.\n\nLike I said, pick up the phone and make a few calls, it won't kill you.\n", "Another user recently requested info about the Shadow/Sundance\ncars, but I haven't seen any public responses.\n\nWhat are people's experiences with these cars?\n\nDaryl", "\n\n\n\n\n\t\n\tI'd hate to rehash an old thread, but... Would someone kindly quote\na prices that a dealer quotes for a Civic EX, and Escort GT. Also, I'm a\nassuming that the MX-3 was the V-6, so go ahead and look that up, too. If \nsomeone has one of those yearly buyers' guides that give a low quote price,\nplease quote them, too. Then find the the SC1 base price.\n\nThanks.\n", "Jonathan E. Quist, on the Thu, 15 Apr 1993 14:26:42 GMT wibbled:\n\n: [lots of things, none of which are quoted here]\n\n: >>> You think your *average* dirt biker can jump\n: >>>a 3 foot log? \n: >\n: >How about an 18\" log that is suspended about 18\" off of the ground?\n: >For that matter, how about a 4\" log that is suspended 2.5' off of the\n: >ground?\n\n: Oh, ye of little imagination.\n\n:You don't jump over those -that's where you lay the bike down and slide under!\n: -- \n: Jonathan E. Quist\n\nThe nice thing about horses though, is that if they break down in the middle of\nnowhere, you can eat them. Fuel's a bit cheaper, too.\n--\n\nNick (the 90 HP Biker) DoD 1069 Concise Oxford Giddy-Up!\n\nM'Lud.", "\nTurbo boost is necessary if a turboed car.\nFuel reserve warning.\nCoolant level warning.\n\nIt would also be nice to have a gauge that would cycle across the different\nsensors in the FI system such as O2 sensor, altitude, Air Flow...\n\nI'd love to get Tranny and diff.\nBrake temp would be great...\n\nAnd a BIG ASS tach. :)\n\nSean", "\nThe VW \"Thing\" Kubelwagen lookalike is still manufactured in Mexico and \npossibly South America. Good luck importing one-- They probably don't meet \nUS safety and pollution requirements. There are mechanics and junkyards \nwhich specialize in VW; they might be helpful for finding a \"Thing\" unless \nthe WWII re-enacters have grabbed them all.\n\nThe WWII Kubelwagen was the German equivalent of the Jeep, but was not 4-\nwheel drive. One is on display at the Patton Museum at Fort Knox, Kentucky, \nalso the rare \"Schwimwagen\" (sp?) amphibious version, in full-scale dioramas.\nHighly recommended!\n\n--", "\nWell, it depends on what kind of locking lugnuts you have. My previous\ncar had locking lugnuts that weighed about 2.5oz. more than the others. \nThe locking lugnuts were factory equipment, and according to the factory\nservice manual, after tire balancing the technician/mechanic was\nsupposed to put a 1/2 oz. counterweight on the rim opposite the locking\nnut. I always had vibration problems with those stupid lugnuts since no\none ever did the service correctly. I eventually got rid of the locking\nlugnuts and replaced them with the standard lugnuts. Unfortunately, I\nfound out about the counterweighting technique 6 months after I got rid\nof the locking nuts. :-(\n\nMy present car, a Saturn SC, has locking lugnuts that I bought at the\ndealer and are made specifically for the Saturn. They have been made to\nbe exactly the same weight as the non-locking lugnuts (said so on the\npackage and I verified it myself). I haven't had any vibration problems\nwith the tires at all (due to the nuts) in 12,000 of ownership. I did\nhave some other vibration problems, but it was due to a poor job of tire\nbalancing.", "Evelyn Wells, on the 12 Apr 1993 11:43 CST wibbled:\n: Once again, this morning I pulled up to the designated motorcycle\n: parking area, only to find a cage pulled up behind the bikes. \n: If people don't double-park cars, why do they do it to motorcycles?\n: Never mind that rhetorical question, I know *why* they do it.\n\n: What I want to know is, what can I do about it? Carry pieces of\n: paper that say \"Don't park your car in the motorcycle area!!\" ?\n: Call the cops? Wait until they emerge from the building and berate\n: them until they beg forgiveness? \n\n: Does anyone else have this problem, and what do you do about it?\n\n: Evie\n\nI don't know if you have a local branch where you are, but the preferred method\nover here is to 'phone the IRA and tell them about the car and that it \nbelongs to an MP who is on a Northern Ireland Government Committee. An hour\nor so later, and the car is no longer a problem. It's best not to park too \nclose to it, though.\n--\n\nNick (the Vengeful Biker) DoD 1069 Concise Oxford Plastic\n\nM'Lud.", "\nMy last car had T-Tops (BIG T-Tops). My current car is a convertible.\nIMHO, if you're after that 'convertible feel', T-Tops, open-top,\nsunroofs, moonroofs, whatever, just don't cut it. There's no\nsubstitute for a convertible. If you're not after that sun beating\ndown on you, the wind in your hair and teeth, the flopsum and\njetsum getting in the car and the noises associated with the\nwhooshing of the wind, you're not after that 'convertible feel'.\nSo go with something with at least a hole above the driver but don't call\nit a convertible.\n\nAnd I do wonder how those targa tops would compare against my roll\nbar in a rollover situation. Of course, I'd rather not test it\nin MY car. I, too, am in my early 40s.\n\nA convertible--accept no substitute.", "i saw this posted and it brings an interesting event to mind .....\n\n\n\na few weeks ago i was in the DMV with ken. i was standing in a mile long \nline waiting for some really bored looking person to fleece a bunch of \npeople from some dough. ken was sitting on a chair next to our helmets \nwondering why everybody there looked to be about the social calibur of \npeople you would find at a laundromat when some young woman walked in who \nrequired our conferring attentions. he came over and stood in line with me \nwhile we watched her fill out some forms and then we noticed a little kid \nabout 4 years old reach over the bench and touch our helmets, one at a time. \ni didn't particularly mind, and neither did ken (that the kid was touching \nour helmets that is). but the helmets weren't on the most stable of \nplatforms, so ken scooted over there to resettle them and as soon as he \ntouched the helmets, mother of said child started shrieking at her kid \"YOU \nSTAY AWAY FROM THOSE YOU SHIT!\" and whopped the tyke brutally about the head \nand shoulders.", "--\n-->Okay DoD'ers, here's a goddamn mystery for ya !\n-->\n-->Today I was turning a 90 degree corner just like on any other day, but there\n-->was a slight difference- a rough spot right in my path caused the suspension\n-->to compress in mid corner and some part of the bike hit the ground with a very\n-->tangible \"thunk\". I pulled over at first opportunity to sus out the damage. \n--== some deleted\n-->\n-->Barry Manor DoD# 620 confused accidental peg-scraper\n-->\n-->\n--Check the bottom of your pipes Barry -- suspect that is what may\n--have hit. I did the same a few years past & thought it was the\n--peg but found the bottom of my pipe has made contact & showed a\n--good sized dent & scratch.\n\n-- Believe you'd feel the suddent change on your foot if the peg\n--had bumped. As for the piece missing -- contribute that to \n--vibration loss.\n\nYep, the same thing happened to me on my old Honda 200 Twinstar.\n", "\n\nHe's also the one who dubbed it the SR-71 - it was the RS-71 until LBJ\nmippselled (sic) it.\n\nFWIW,\n\nDoug Page", "\nZero to very fast very quickly... lastest rumor is 115 hp at the rear wheel,\nhandles like a dream in a straight line to 80-100, and then gets a tad upset\naccording to a review in Cycle World... cornering, er well, you can't have \neverything... Seriously, handling is probably as good as the big standards\nof the early 80's but not compareable to whats state of the art these days.\n\nAll this gleemed from reviews and discussions with owners. I too lust after\nthis bike.", "Does anyone know how to size cold gas roll control thruster tanks\nfor sounding rockets?", "I am selling my Sportster to make room for a new FLHTCU.\nThis scoot is in excellent condition and has never been wrecked or abused.\nAlways garaged.\n\n\t1990 Sportster 883 Standard (blue)\n\n\tfactory 1200cc conversion kit\n\n\tless than 8000 miles\n\n\tBranch ported and polished big valve heads\n\n\tScreamin Eagle carb\n\n\tScreamin Eagle cam\n\n\tadjustable pushrods\n\n\tHarley performance mufflers\n\n\ttachometer\n\n\tnew Metzeler tires front and rear\n\n\tProgressive front fork springs\n\n\tHarley King and Queen seat and sissy bar\n\n\teverything chromed\n\n\tO-ring chain\n\n\tfork brace\n\n\toil cooler and thermostat\n\n\tnew Die-Hard battery\n\n\tbike cover", "Thanks for all the recommendations. I have decide to ignore the service \nindicators and do oil change myself every 3000 miles.\n\nThanks again for all the responses. ", "\nIf he had a history of such things, why was it not mentioned in the\narticle, and why did they present the irrelevant detail of where he\ngot his drinking money from?\n\nI can't say exactly who is at fault here, but from where I sit is\nlooks like we're seeing the results either of the law going way out\nof hand or of shoddy journalism.\n\nIf the law wants to attach strings to how you spend a settlement, they\nshould put the money in trust. They don't, so I would assume it's\nperfectly legitimate to drink it away, though I wouldn't spend it that\nway myself.", "#>This happened about a year ago on the Washington DC Beltway.\n#>Snot nosed drunken kids decided it would be really cool to\n#>throw huge rocks down on cars from an overpass. Four or five\n#>cars were hit. There were several serious injuries, and sadly\n#>a small girl sitting in the front seat of one of them was struck \n#>in the head by one of the larger rocks. I don't recall if she \n#>made it, but I think she was comatose for a month or so and \n#>doctors weren't holding out hope that she'd live.\n#>\n#>What the hell is happening to this great country of ours? I\n#>can see boyhood pranks of peeing off of bridges and such, but\n#>20 pound rocks??! Has our society really stooped this low??\n\n Yes. Nobody is watching them. If they get caught, there is no punishment\n at all. In the old days such behaviour would be rewarded with a whipping\n with a good-sized belt, and then taken into some hospital to see first hand\n what kind of damage such accidents cause. Of course this doesn't happen\n any more. That whipping would probably save the kid's life by teaching\n him some respect for others. A person with that little respect would\n inevitably wind up dead early anyway.\n\n The problem is creeping gradualism. If you put a frog into hot water,\n he just jumps out. But if you put him into cold water and then ever-so-\n gradually heat it, the frog will cook. This is what the entertainment\n industry and lack of religious, moral, and educational standards in our\n modern North American society have done to us over the years. Now that\n we are about to be 'cooked', we may have woken up too late.\n\n#>\n#>Erik velapold\n# \n#Society, as we have known it, it coming apart at the seams! The basic reason\n#is that human life has been devalued to the point were killing someone is\n#\"No Big Deal\". Kid's see hundreds on murderous acts on TV, we can abort \n#children on demand, and kill the sick and old at will. So why be surprised\n#when some kids drop 20 lbs rocks and kill people. They don't care because the\n#message they hear is \"Life is Cheap\"!\n\n And the education system and the Religious Leaders aren't doing much \n about it, either. With both parents working in this society, where is\n the stabilizing influence at home? Latchkey children are everywhere!\n And these latchkey kids can watch whatever rotten videos and listen to\n whatever violent hate-promoting \"music\" and videos they like because no\n one is home to stop it.\n\n This day and age, when there is about 100 times more things to learn\n than when I went to school, our answer to this increased knowledge is\n shorter school hours and more leisure time! I say keep the kids in\n school longer, feed them good food and teach them something, and when\n they get home, have a parent there to interact and monitor them. There\n is a very old and now forgotten proverb: a child left on his own will\n bring a parent to grief. Daycare systems are not the answer. This is\n just shifting the parents' own responsibilities off on someone else to\n whom it's not a life-long committment, but rather just a job.\n\n\n# \n#AT\n\n Followups should go to alt.parents-teens\n\n\n Fred W. Bach , Operations Group | Internet: music@erich.triumf.ca\n TRIUMF (TRI-University Meson Facility) | Voice: 604-222-1047 loc 327/278\n 4004 WESBROOK MALL, UBC CAMPUS | FAX: 604-222-1074\n University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., CANADA V6T 2A3", "C'mon you guys. \nMotorcycles & booze don't mix. \nNuff said.", ": On December 29, 1992, it was illegal to operate a radar detector\n: in the state of Virginia. If one got caught, one got fined $65.00.\n: Ask me how I know.\n\nThe Federal Communications Act of 1934 made it *legal* for you to\noperate a radio receiver of any kind, on any frequency (including\nX, K, and Ka bands) in the United States. The Electronic\nCommunications Privacy Act of 1989(?) restricted the FCA of 1934\nby making it illegal to receive the land-mobile telephone service,\nincluding (I believe) cellular phones. No restriction was placed\non receiving RADAR (or, curiously, cordless phones.) Enforcement\nof the Virginia law is in violation of the FCA of 1934. If you have\nlots of time and money (and a lawyer, which I'm *not*,) you can\nargue this in a federal court and try to have the law overturned.\n\nI can hardly wait to see the responses to this one, but somebody\nhad to say it...\n", "Yes, Matt, dear Newbie, best advice is read here foe a few days.\nThis is your best source of info.\n\n(Kinda makes me glad that I discovered r.m well after I got into riding--\n could I have possibly sounded like *that* otherwise? --eesh.)\n\nBTW Matt, despite the insults you are destined to face, great move \non taking the MSF course. It will save your butt.\n\nGood Luck,", "89' Toyota Camry LE 4 dr sedan\nAC AT power windows and locks\n53k miles, asking $9000.\nPls call 510-526-8248 or send e-mail to this account.\n", "\n\n\n\nHere in Australia most cars are manual (privately owned anyway). Why?\nNot sure, I think it has something to do with the fact that our car industry\nin the past was more closely aligned with Europe than the US in the past.\nNow it's aligned with Asia.\n\nScott.\n_______________________________________________________________________________\nScott Fisher [scott@psy.uwa.oz.au] PH: Aus [61] Perth (09) Local (380 3272). \n _--_|\\ N\nDepartment of Psychology / \\ W + E\nUniversity of Western Australia. Perth [32S, 116E]--> *_.--._/ S\nNedlands, 6009. PERTH, W.A. v \n\nJoy is a Jaguar XJ6 with a flat battery, a blown oil seal and an unsympathetic \nwife, 9km outside of a small remote town, 3:15am on a cold wet winters morning.", "\n[lots of things, none of which are quoted here]\n\n\nOh, ye of little imagination.\n\nYou don't jump over those - that's where you lay the bike down and slide under!", "\n\n1) a fitting that allows you to generate household current with\nthe engine running, and plug ins in the trunk, engine compartment\nand cabin.\n\nFeel free to add on...\n\nRegards, Charles\nx\n-- \nWithin the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of\nseparate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,\nstruck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing\ngourd. --Unknown net.person", "{drinking & riding}\n\n0.20 is DWI in New York? Here the limit is 0.08 !", "\n I don't remember the formula's off hand as it has been awhile since\nI took aerodynamics and haven't used the stuff since. \nThe Cd is related to the drag force which is what effects top speed and\nfuel consumption. When the drag force on the car or aircraft is greater\nthan what the vehicle's engine can overcome it has reached its top speed.\n(autos of course also have to overcome rolling resistance)\nSince drag opposes the vehicle's motion, the engine must make up for that\nby burning more fuel. Anyway, since the geometery of an auto is rather\ncomplex, the Drag,pressure coeffiecent,etc is either found experimentaly, or\nusing a numerical method.\n\nanyway for flow around a cylinder the drag coeff is:\n\n Cd = d/(q*2R)\n\n where d is the drag force, q the flow velocity and R is the radius\nof the clyinder.\n To get a rough (very rough) estimate, you can set R at 1/2 the car's\nwidth, q at the car's speed and knowing the Cd, find the drag force that\nthe car would need to overcome. \n", "\nThe big win with the V-1 is not its range but rather its\ndirectionality and multiple-transmitter tracking (which you later\ncalled a \"gimmick\" -- a conclusion I disagree with). Since the\ndetector incorporates multiple receivers it's not surprising that it's\nsignificantly more expensive. While the added capabilities may not\nhelp you, there is added value for those of us who live in areas where\nthere are a lot of false-alarms.\n\n\nI certainly call it \"interesting\" but I'm another person who thinks\nthat the added value might be coming at too high a cost. Very\nadequate radar detectors are available for less than half the cost and\none of them has suited me rather well. If I did more long-distance\ntravelling in areas I'm not familiar with I'd probably consider\ngetting the V-1 because it's additional information would be useful in\ndiscriminating false alarms.", "Sixteen days I had put off test driving the Honda ST1100. Finally,\nthe 17th was a Saturday without much rain. In fact it cleared up, \nbecame warm and sunny, and the wind died. About three weeks ago, I\ntook a long cool ride on the Hawk down to Cycles! 128 for a test ride.\nThey had sold, and delivered, the demo ST1100 about fifteen hours\nbefore I arrived. And the demo VFR was bike-locked in the showroom --\nsurrounded by 150 other bikes, and not likely to move soon.\n\nToday was different. There were even more bikes. 50 used dirt bikes,\n50 used street bikes, 35 cars, and a big tent full of Outlandishly Fat\nTouring Bikes With Trailers were all squeezed in the parking lot.\nSome sort of fat bike convention. Shelly and Dave were running one\nMSF course each, at the same time. One in the classroom and one on\nthe back lot. Plus, there was the usuall free cookout food that\nCycles! gives away every weekend in the summer. Hmmm, it seemed like\na big moto party.\n\nAfter about ten minutes of looking for Rob C, cheif of sales slime,\nand another 5 minutes reading and signing a long disclosure/libility/\npray-to-god form I helped JT push the ST out into the mess in the\nparking lot. We went over the the controls, I put the tank bag from \nthe Hawk into the right saddlebag, and my wife put everything else\ninto the left saddlebag. ( Thats nice.... ) Having helped push the \nST out to the lot, I thought it best to have JT move it to the edge of\nthe road, away from the 100+ bikes and 100+ people. He rode it like a\nbicycle! 'It cant be that heavy' I thought.\n\nWell I was wrong. As I sat on the ST, both feet down, all I could \nthink was \"big\". Then I put one foot up. \"Heavy\" came to mind very\nquickly. With Cindy on the back -- was she on the back? Hard to \ntell with seat three times as large as a Hawk seat -- the bike seemed\nnearly out of control just idling on the side of the road.\n\nBy 3000 rpm in second gear, all the weight seemed to dissappear. Even\non bike with 4.1 miles on the odometer, slippery new tires, and pads that \ndid not yet bite the disks, things seems smooth and sure. Cycles! is\non a section of 128 that few folks ever ride. About 30 miles north\nof the computer concentration, about five miles north of where I95\nsplits away, 128 is a lighly travelled, two lane limited access\nhighway. It goes through heavily forested sections of Hamilton, \nManchester-by-the-Sea and Newbury on its way to Gloucester.\nOn its way there, it meets 133, a road that winds from the sea about\n30 miles inland to Andover. On its way it goes through many\nthoroughly New England spots. Perfect, if slow, sport touring sections.\n\nCindy has no difficulty with speed. 3rd gear, 4th gear, purring along\nin top gear. This thing has less low rpm grunt that my Hawk. Lane \nchanges were a new experience. A big heft is required to move this \nthing. Responds well though. No wallowing or complaint. Behind the\nfairing it was fairly quiet, but the helmet buffeting was\nnon-trivial. Top gear car passing at 85mph was nearly effortless.\nSmooth, smooth, smooth. Not sure what the v4 sound reminds me of,\nbut it is pleasant. If only the bars were not transmitting an endless\nbuzz.\n\nThe jump on to 133 caused me to be less than impressed with the\nbrakes. Its a down hill, reversing camber, twice-reversing radius,\ndecreasing radius turn. A real squeeze is needed on the front binder. \nThe section of 133 we were on was tight, but too urban. The ST works ok\nin this section, but it shows its weight. We went by the clam shack\noft featured in \"Spencer for Hire\" -- a place where you could really \nfind \"Spencer\", his house was about 15 miles down 133. After putting\nthrough traffic for a while, we turned and went back to 128.\n\nAbout half way through the onramp, I yanked Cindy's wrist, our singal\nfor \"hold on tight\". Head check left, time to find redline. Second\ngear gives a good shove. Third too. Fourth sees DoD speed with a \nshort shift into top. On the way to 133 we saw no cops and very light\ntraffic. Did not cross into DoD zone because the bike was too new.\nWell, now it had 25 miles on it, so it was ok. Tried some high effort\nlane changes, some wide sweeping turns. Time to wick it up? I went \nuntil the buffeting was threating to pull us off the seat. And stayed\nthere. When I was comfortable with the wind and the steering, \nI looked down to find an indicated 135mph. Not bad for 2-up touring.\n\nBeverly comes fast at more than twice the posted limit. At the \"get\noff in a mile\" sign, I rolled off the throttle and coasted. I wanted\nto re-adjust to the coming slowness. It was a good idea: there were\nseveral manhole-sized patches of sand on the exit ramp. Back to the \nslow and heavy behavior. Cycles! is about a mile from 128. I could \nsee even more cars stacked up outside right when I got off. I managed\nto thread the ST through the cars to the edge of the concrete pad\nout front. Heavy. It took way too much effort for Cindy and I to put\nthe thing on the center stand. I am sure that if I used the side\nstand the ST would have been on its side within a minute.\n\n\nMy demo opinion? Heavy. Put it on a diet. Smooth, comfortable,\nhardly notices the DoD speed. I'd buy on for about $3000 less than \nlist, just like it is. Too much $ for the bike as it is.", "\n\n\n\n\tThe 850 is a V12 (5L, from the 750iL) Is there a 835? or 840?\n\n\n", "\nTrue enough. I put it on the ground if it's free of spooge, or directly\non my head otherwise.\n\n\nNot exactly. The helmet has a lot less energy if your head isn't in it, and\nthere's no lump inside to compress the liner against the shell. Is a drop\noff the seat enough to crack the shell? I doubt it, but you can always\nsend it to be inspected.", "\nSells for $570 here (Southern California) almost everywhere.", "\n\n\n\nYou better check all the screws in that carb before you suck\none into a jug and munge a piston, or valve. I've seen it\nhappen before.", "I came across this interesting information in my local public library while \nresearching minivans. It is the dealer price and the retail price for a \nminivan I am thinking about purchasing. Someone told me that the number for \nbase price was slightly lower than the current price, but this should still \ngive you some idea about pricing and how much you can negotiate.\n\n\nMercury Villager GS\n Dealer Retail\nBase Price $14688 16504\nAir Conditioning 729 857\nRear Defroster 143 168\nCalif. Emissions 87 102\n7 Passenger Seating 282 332\nAM/FM Radio (no cassette) STD STD\nAutomatic Transmission STD STD\nAnti-lock brakes STD STD\nDestination 540 540\n\nThe total dealer cost is $16469\nThe total retail price is $18467\n\n\n\nNissan Quest XE\n Dealer Retail\nBase Price $15212 17545\nAir Conditioning STD STD\nRear Defroster STD STD\nCalif. Emissions 59 70\n7 Passenger Seating STD STD\nAM/FM Cassette STD STD\nAutomatic Transmission STD STD\nAnti-lock brakes 593 700\nDestination 540 540", "W >>will NOT do work on internal engine components of the SHO engine. This\nW >\nW >Good thing, too.\nW >\nW >At about 25K miles my cam sensor went south. 2 different Ford\nW >dealers tried 5 or 6 different \"fixes\", none of which worked. Finally\nW >I took it down the street to the local mechanic. This guy reads the\nW >code off the engine computer, says \"Bad cam sensor\", and fixes it in \nW >an hour...\n\nA friend of mine had some sensors damaged by flood waters, Ford denys any\nsensors are registering bad. He and his father did the short a circut via\npaper clip method (not sure of the exact technique), and read the codes off\nthe \"service engine\" light flashes generated from this. Came up with the \ndamaged sensors, went back to Ford, and TOLD them what was wrong. They\nfixed the car after that. What a bunch of bozos.\n ", "I just had my 41 Chrysler painted. I was told to refrain from waxing it and\nto leave it out in the sun!! Supposedly this let's the volatiles escape from\nthe paint over a month or so (I can smell it 15 feet away on a hot day) and\nlets any slight irregularites in the surface flow out, as the paint remains\na little soft for a while.\n", "I can't help myself.\nI've tried to be rational, \nto look the other way,\nbut everytime it happens, \nits uncontrollable.\n\nI hate pre'80s motorcycles.\n\nAt first I thought it was a phase. I though I would\nget used to them. It didn't happen. I tried gazing\nat CB750s and 900 customs, but each time I sadistically\npictured them being hurled off of large precipice\n(I also picture a swarm of german tourists cheering and\ntaking holiday snaps, but I can't figure that part out).\n\nWhat am I to do? Everytime I read a .sig containing \nsome spoked wheel wonder, I shudder and feel pity that\nthe poor soul has suffered enough. I imagine the owner\nscrapping out his (or her) living in a discarded Maytag\nrefridgerator box, tucked in next to their CX500.\n\nI'm hoping for some deliverance. I had in the past loathed\nthe Milwaukee machine, but I can actually begin to understand\nsome of the preaching. There must be hope. \n", "Yo, did anybody see this run of HARD COPY?\n\nI guy on a 600 Katana got pulled over by the Police (I guess for\nspeeding or something). But just as the cop was about to step\nout of the car, the dude punches it down an interstate in Georgia.\nAng then, the cop gives chase.\n\nNow this was an interesting episode because it was all videotaped!!!\nEverything from the dramatic takeoff and 135mph chase to the sidestreet\nbattle at about 100mph. What happened at the end? The guy (who is\nbeing relentless chased down box the cage with the disco lights)\nslows a couple of times to taunt the cop. After blowing a few stop\nsigns and making car jump to the side, he goes up a dead end street.\n\nThe Kat, although not the latest machine, is still a high performance\nmachine and he slams on the brakes. Of couse, we all know that cages,\nespecially the ones with the disco lights, can't stop as fast as our\nhigh performance machines. So what happens?... The cage plows into the\nKat.\n\nLuckily for this dude, he was wearing a helmet and was not hurt. But\ndude, how crazy can you get!?! Yeah, we've all went out and played\ncat and mouse with our friends but, with a cop!!???!!! How crazy can\nyou get!?!?! It took just one look at a ZX-7 who tried this crap\nto convince me not to try any shit like that. (Although the dude\ncollided with a car head on at 140 mph, the Kawasaki team colors\nstill looked good!!! Just a few scratches, like no front end....\n3 inch long engine and other \"minor\" scratches...)\n\nIf you guys are out there, please, slow it down. I not being\nan advocate for the cages (especially the ones that make that \nannoying ass noises...), but just think... The next time you\npunched it (whether you have an all mighty ZX-11 or a \"I can\ndo it\" 250 Ninja), just remember, a kid could step out at any \ntime.\n\nPeace & ride (kinda) safe.\n\nWarren -- \"Have Suzuki, Will travel...\"\nWCD82671@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu", "\nThere is something going on here. It seems that once a month, the VW\ngroup must have get a specific detailed question about Hondas. I\nwould like to ask that next month we get one about Hyundai instead of\nHonda. Thank you.", "\n It wasn't that the Lawson's V&H OWO1 was faster. If you watch the tape\nagain, Russell had major backmarker problems before getting onto the banking.\nIt doesn't matter what bike you have, if you lose your drive, your hosed.", "\n\nAnother tip is to make sure you keep well to one side of the lane. This gives\nyou a quicker escape route.", "\n\nIs (was? :-( ) your HG zipper the nylon-coil type or the kind with\nmolded plastic teeth? I've only tried it on the coiled nylon type, and\nit doesn't take much squish to fix the problem. I found I was overdoing\nit (no broken parts, but the zipper was too hard to pull) so after\nspreading the zipper pull jaws again, I tried with Vice-Grips. No, not\nthe usual Grip Of Death technique, I adjusted the closed Vice-Grips so\nthey were snug on the zipper jaws, then released them and tightened the\nadjusting screw a bit. A couple of iterations and I had just the right\namount of Zipper Squish (TM).\n\n\nI've had two zipper pulls fail on my Aerostich suit (actually on the\nAccessory Ellipse), and they sent me a few replacement pulls free of\ncharge. I don't know what brand of zippers HG uses, but parts ARE\navailable for YKK's plastic zippers. Replacement was pretty simple, just\nbreak and remove the plastic knob at the top of the zipper that keeps\nthe pull from coming off the top end. Slide on the new zipper pull. Then\ncrimp on (Vice-Grips again!) a replacement zipper stop.\n\nYou might try fabric stores & such and see if they sell replacement\nparts.\n\nOh, for what it's worth, the coil-type zippers on the Eclipse tankbag\nare also YKK.", "If you hold off, there are a number of interesting convertibles coming\nto market in the next few years.\n\nThe new LeBaron will be based on the Mitsubishi Galant, which should\nbe an improvement over the current model.\n\nThe new PL compact will have a convertible option (also a chrysler\nproduct)\n\nKia, makers of the Ford Festiva is planning a larger convertible.", "Several years back one of the radar detectors manufacturers, in\ndefiance to Virginia's law against radar detectors, passed out\nthousands of fake cardboard radar detectors at truck stops near\nthe Virginia State lines. At that time there were no radar\ndetector Detectors! I am not sure of the impact but I would\nimagine that enforcement of the law by visually sighting a\nradar detector became difficult - if not impossible!\n\nAs I said earlier, efforts to throw out or eliminate the VA law\nagainst radar detectors has been in vain. In fact, effective\nJan. 1, 1993, the fine for possession of a radar detector\naccessable to the driver of a vehicle in VA is now $250.00. \n\nI have noted an interesting anomality with my Alinco DR-100 2\nmeter ham transceiver.... It will make a *cheap* radar detector\nscream! I am not sure of the range, but it is obvious by the\nbrake lights that it can be at least 50 feet at 50 watts! :-)", "Hi from Australia,\n\nI am a car enthusiast in Australia.\n \nI am particularly interested in American Muscle cars of the \n1960s and 1970s. ALL MAKES: AMC, Ford, Chrysler/Mopar, GM.\n\nI will be in the USA for 6 weeks from May 2nd to -June 14 1993.\n\nChicago: Sun May 2 -Thursday May 6\nDenver: Friday May 7 - Sunday May 9\nAustin, Texas: Monday May 10- Friday May 21\nOklahoma City: Friday May 21 - Monday May 24\nAnaheim, California: Tuesday May 25-Thursday May 27\nLas Vegas, Nevada: Friday May 28- Sunday May 30\nGrand Canion, Monday May 31 - Tuesday June 1\nLas Angeles, San Diego and vicinity: Wednesday June 3-Sunday June 6 June\nSouth Lake Tahoe, Cal: Sunday June 6 - Wednesday June 9\nReno: Thursday June 10\nSan Fransisco: Thursday June 10 - Sunday June 13\n\n\nI was wondering if anyone could send me any information of \ncar shows, swap meets, drag meets, model car shows etc. during this period.\nCan anybody tell me when the Pomona Swap meet is on this year?\n\nAlso, any places to visit (eg. car museums, private collections, \nyour collection? etc. Any bit of information is appreciated!\n\nI am also interested in finding some model cars (scale Models). \nI am intersted in 1968-1974 AMC cars. Of particular interest is:\n1968-1970 AMX\n1968-1974 Javelin\n1969 SCRAMBLER\n1970 Rebel Machine\nand others\n\nIf you have any kits, plastics, diecast etc and are interested in selling them,\ntell me, I will be interested.\n\nI can also send/bring you models of Australian High performance cars if \nyou are interested.\n\n\nPlease reply by email to: johnt@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au\n\n\nThanks,", "\n I found a Mopar spec sheet this weekend:\n\n model wgt hp\n Stealth 3086 164\n Stealth ES 3186 222\n Stealth RT 3373 222\n Stealth RT TT 3803 300\n\n Okay, I'll take \"their\" word for it.\n\n\n\n Seems that the 1993 Mustang 5.0 is rated at 205 hp ONLY because Ford\n changed its testing procedures. Under the older procedures, it still \n rates closer to 225 hp. That means that the Mustang has 3 hp more.\n \n And you still haven't posted any weight figures for the Mustang.\n\n\n\n Yeah, sure, in your wet dreams. And that's probably where you got \n that 11.2 second 0-60 for the Stealth.\n\n\n\n For 3 posts now you've been harping on this May 1991 issue of Car & Driver\n without posting any numbers. Why not? Because they prove me right and you\n ain't got the guts to admit it? Yeah, thought so.\n\n\n\n No, I'm going to play your game -\n\n No way, Sentra's are SLOW! I took a test drive and it took\n 21.7 to go 0-50! Why, even the Hyundai Excel blows it doors\n off. Any 12 yr old knows that! I race and I'll kick your butt! \n blah, blah, blah...\n\n Let's see ... yep, that sounds just like you. \n Oh man, I just got it! Beavis & Butthead - that's you!\n\n\n\n I dunno, why did you?\n\n But why would someone pick the Dodge Stealth RT over the Nissan Sentra?\n All it takes is one look.\n", "\nAny reason you are limited to the two mentioned? They aren't really at\nthe same point along the SUV spectrum - not to mention price range.\nHow about the Explorer, Trooper, Blazer, Montero, and if the budget\nallows, the Land Cruiser? \nBear in mind that 90% of all SUV's purchased never venture off-road.\nCarefully weigh the trade-off between comfort and off-road performance\nwhen choosing one, and realistically decide whether you'll actually\nmake enough use of the off-road-ability to sacrifice (some of) the\non-road comfort.\n\n\n\nJohn\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n", "\n\nNo need to appologise, as a matter of fact\nthis reminds me to bring up something I\nhave found consistant with dogs-\n\nMost of the time, they do NOT like having\nme and my bike anywhere near them, and will\nchase as if to bite and kill. \n\nAn instructor once said it was because the \nsound from a bike was painfull to their \nears. As silly as this seams, no other options\nhave arrizen. \n\nnet.wisdom?\n", "\n\nA \"fuel injector cleaning\" at the dealer is probably little more than\nthem opening your gas tank, dumping in a bottle of fuel injector cleaner,\nand sending you on your merry way $59 poorer. Go to KMart and buy the\ncleaner yourself for $1.29.\n \nJust because you dealer sez you need it, don't mean it's necessarily so.\nBe suspicious.", "\nWhile I don't read normally read this group, I was looking for Valentine radar\ninformation (sigh, maybe in the FAQ) and came across your posting..\n\nI bought a '93 Probe GT with the PEP 263A last July (now at 9500 miles)\nafter debating over the Sentra SE-R/NX2000, MX6, MR-2, Stealth, Prelude, \nand Celica.\n\nCheck this month's Consumer Reports for previous Probe records. \n\nMy criteria: a \"fun\" car with ABS, airbag, over 130hp, and less than $25K.\nI thought about a turbo, but checking with insurance people ruled that out.\nThe Tri-Star cars (Eclipse/Talon/etc) were out since they don't have an air bag.\nDitto for the Mustang(also no ABS).\nThe SE-R/NX2000/M20 fell into the pocket-rocket category. A good used car buy.\nThe MX-6 was almost there but rolled more than I liked. \nI didn't like the Prelude dash/instrumentation at all. Too weird for me.\nThe MR2 has a much smaller non-passenger space than I needed, so out that went.\nThe Celica was \"ok\" but underpowered when loaded with options (and somewhat\noverpriced too) in non-turbo form.\nI never considered the 240SX since it didn't have an airbag. I did look at it\nfor its RWD virtues but that's it. The Corolla never entered my mind.\nI should have looked at the Mitsubishi VR4/Dodge Stealth more.\nSince my list was exhausted, I bought the Probe. :-)\n\nThe car design is different than earlier years, so it's too early to see its\nreliability so far. For what it's worth, my comments:\n\nMy dislikes:\nShutting door with windows up from inside rarely makes good wind seal.\nHeadlights have \"stuck\" up a few times (weather?)\nair conditioning broke ~4000 miles (pressure cycling switch)\ncondensation around rear washer fluid container doesn't drain completely.\ncrammed engine; little hope for do-it-yourselfers (typical)\nparts somewhat more expensive than normal Ford parts\nunderside plastic doesn't like sharp driveways and speedbumps (typical).\nassembly gripes: tape on radiator, screw fell out of dash, seat seams not \nstitched properly. Hopefully just a fluke.\nFord only gives 1 key with the car. C'mon Ford, spend an extra few pennies!\nRear hatch has no padding on corners when up. I'm waiting for the day when\nI bash my head on the corner.\nhorn buttons behind air bag in spokes and not in center (personal preference)\nTires fling dirt/mud onto side of car \n\nMy Likes:\nengine (design/valves/sounds/smoothness/power/mileage/torque) -- definitely #1\nhandling (very good for FWD; understeer only at limits)\ntransmission (the 5 speed is a must)\nusable instrumentation (lovely readable analog everywhere)\nVery little torque steer at full power (much better than the '90 SHO I drive)\nstability at 100+mph (high gearing though)\nlow cowl (good visibility in front)\nHeated outside mirrors (nice in fog, never tested in freezing weather)\nABS/Air bag (see above)\nrear seats fold down (I have few rear seat passengers so a trunk not important)\nNo shake/rattle noises when going over bumps/potholes (still!)\nTires: 225/55VR16 Goodyear Eagles (70% left; hoping for 30K :-)\n\nAs you can see, I'm primarily interested in the engine. While it doesn't\nhave the uummmph of a big-liter car or the turbo rush, the big selling\npoint for me was the all-aluminum 24 value 2.5 liter engine. \n\nThe overall car is a good buy for the money. That market segment hasn't changed\nmuch since July (Prelude VTEC, Honda Del Sol??). I drive it to and from work\neach day on relatively smooth roads, and most noticable thing is that the\nProbe's suspension doesn't like potholes. When you test drive one, find a \npotholed road somewhere around town and see if the jarring you get is tolerable.\nIf you have 3+ passengers, by all means bring them along too. They'll find\nthat they have no room in the back and you'll find that the car rides\ndifferently (if that's \"better\" is up to you). Also, there's a lot of glass\naround you which I wasn't expecting; the temperature inside the car gets pretty\nhot in the summer. My back seat passengers (now very few) complain about\nthe lack of ventilation; you may want to consider that when combined with\nthe heat. I've heard that the exhaust system has trouble, but mine works fine.\nLeather and the keyless entry system weren't available when I got the car so\nI can't comment on them (I got the car before it was officially announced). \nI prefer cloth to leather anyway. \n\nI wouldn't want this car in the snow: The suspension is too rough for the\ninevitable surprise potholes, tires aren't meant for snow, and the seats assume\nthat you're not wearing lots of thick clothing. Rain is much better: water \ngenerally beads off the windshield at freeway speed, the windshield wiper\ncontrols are easy and understandable, and I barely hydroplaned once with the\nEagles (and I was really trying). \nThere is also a definite lack of cup holder/small storage places. The GT\nhas map holders below the speakers in the door, but they're rigid plastic\nthat could fit two cassettes or CD's max. The center console/storage bin/arm\nrest has *1* cup holder and the back of the front seats have a cloth \"pouch\"\nbut that's it. No change holders. Quite a let-down from the SHO.\nAnd the Probe is definitely not a people-mover car or an econo-box car!\n\nLastly, don't store wet car covers in the back. The foam will soak the \nwater up and the result will *not* smell pleasant :-(.\n\nNathan\nnathan@sco.com\n\n\n", "AW>>>My 85 Caprice Classic with 120K+ miles has finally reached\n >>>the threshold of total number of mechanical problems that\n >>>I am forced to post :). Anyone out there who might be\n >>>able to give me some pointers on one or more of the below,\n >>>please e-mail or post!\n\nAW>>>1. When making turns, especially when accelerating,\n >>>there is usually a loud \"thunk\" from the rear of\n >>>of the car. Sounds like it could be the differential.\n\nWheel bearing, ujoint.\n\n\nAW>>>2. On starting the car, I get blue (oil) smoke from\n >>>the exhaust for 5-10 seconds. Exhaust valves\n\nBad valve stem seals.\n\nAW>>>3. Brakes. More pedal travel than I feel comfortable\n >>>with, but master cylinder is full and fluid is\n\nWorn pads, rear brakes not adjusted up tight or worn out drums.\n90% of low pedal complaints usually are from a rear brake problem.\n\nAW>>>4. Tranny. Tranny problems seem to be slowly getting\n >>>worse -- takes almost 2 seconds to downshift from\n >>>3rd to 2nd on heavy throttle application, and more\n >>>recently, it is reluctant to shift from 2nd to 3rd.\n >>>Fluid (checked with car running with tranny put\n >>>through all the gears and then back to park, as per\n >>>Haynes manual) is red and clear, and is on full mark.\nPossible modulator valve if equipped with one. Also could be the\nkickdoen cable.\n\nAW>>>5. My springs all around are just about shot -- I have\n >>>4 new shocks on, but car still skips out on bumps\n >>>in turns at moderate to high speed. How hard are\n >>>they to change? Can they be reconditioned?\nDifficult on front. Easy on rear. They are not expensive. about $75-$100\nfor front and less than $50 for the rear.\n\nIts also kind of dangerous to work on the front springs without the\nproper equipment.\n Don\n\n\n * SLMR 2.1a * I put spot remover on my dog....Spots gone!\n ", "I have a '72 CL350 which I stopped riding about 2 years ago (I upgraded\nto an '84 Sabre 750). I parked it in the corner of my parking lot, and planned\non draining the gas, spraying oil in the tank, etc. to get it ready to store.\nWell, after a lot of procrastination, all I ended up doing was throwing a \ntarp on it.\n\nWell, now I have to move and want to clean up the 350. I tried starting it\n(with someone else's battery) and had no luck. My first guess is that it is\nthe gas and so I plan on draining it and replacing it with new gas (I can only\npray that I didn't trash the carbeurators). The question is, what do I do\nwith this old gas? I am not going to run it in my Sabre, and I think that\nthere is enough that I don't want to burn it (campus police don't think\ntoo kindly about bonfires). Dumping it isn't a great idea. \n\nThanks for any ideas,\nGeorge Heinz\n\n----\nWin the $1,000,000 question -- what does this C code do? (No fair compiling it)", "\n\nI just gotta ask... What ARE these questions you want to ask an active cop?\nWorking on your DoD qualfications? B-)\n\n\n ----===== DoD #8177 = Technician(Dr. Speed) .NOT. Student =====----", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\nI ride my bike regularly to classes with my book bag. I take\nthe shoulder straps on the bag, and hook them around the rear turn\nsignals. I works fine. You probably will want to attach it with\na bungee cord to keep it from shifting to one side or another.\n", "\n[Useless road design, speed rate discussion deleted.]\n", "\nSeveral company publish periodicals (3 or 4 times a year) which list the\nsticker prices and the dealer invoice prices of all the cars and their\noptions. Edmund's is the name of one such price guide. You can find\nthese price guides at most places which sell magazines.\n", "I'm looking to buy a '92 Toyota Previa All-Trac with low miles.\nIf you are selling one, or want someone to buy out an existing lease,\nplease contact me by mail.\n", "\nGrass Roots Motorsport [3/93] has a long article about MG/B's this month.\nAs far as collectivity/speculation is concerned they think it is a \nwaste of time, especially the later rubber bumpered models are the least\ndesirable, a 1962 original model the most. The reasons for its low\nvalue are easy availability and the fact that it just was not a very good\ncar.", ": As a new BMW owner I was thinking about signing up for the MOA, but\n: right now it is beginning to look suspiciously like throwing money\n: down a rathole.\n\ni concur with this.\n\nthe politics and bickering going on has\nruined BMWMOA to me. because of the\npolitics and fighting, i'm i'm going to\nlet my current membership lapse when it's\nup for renewal.\n\n\n-- hesh", "Michael, you sent your inquiry to the bmw mailing list, but the sw\nreplaces your return addr with the list addr so I can't reply or\nmanually add you. please see my post re the list or contact me directly.\n", "\nfoot in mouth again, drew. the first generation mr 2's were 1.6's which \nwere very smooth. i'd be real surprised if the original poster was talking\nabout a 1st generation car. the second generation cars were 2.2 for the\nnon turbo and 2.0 for the turbo. i drove the non turbo 2.2 and calling it\nunpleasant is to be kind to it.. \n\n\nwrong and wrong. mitsubishi owns the patent, which has since expired\nwhich is why everybody with a shred of integrity is putting balance\nshafts into their big 4's.. the notable exception is nissan.. and only\nfor the us market suckers. i guess we need to write to C&D and start\ntelling them to publish graphs for engine vibration over rpm. then\nyou'll see usenet discussions of the form: engine A has peak\nvibrations 3 dB less than engine B, therefore engine A is better than\nengine B.\n\n1/2 :-)\n", "\n\n\tIt can be done, contact Chaparell cycle supply, they ought to have\nthe sprocket you need/want for cheap, well much cheaper than your average\ndealership. Hey they even had sprockets for my VF1000R which is hard to find\naccesssories for. \n\n\t\t\t\t\t-Craig. \n\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------", "\nI was very lucky I found a jacket I liked that actually _fits_.\nHG makes the v-pilot jackets, mine is a very similar style made\nby Just Leather in San Jose. I bought one of the last two they\never made.\n\nFinding decent womens motorcycling gear is not easy. There is a lot\nof stuff out there that's fringed everywhere, made of fashion leather,\nmade to fit men, etc. I don't know of a shop in your area. There\nare some women rider friendly places in the San Francisco/San Jose\narea, but I don't recommend buying clothing mail order. Too hard\nto tell if it'll fit. Bates custom makes leathers. You might want\nto call them (they're in L.A.) and get a cost estimate for the type\nof jacket your wife is interested in. Large manufacturers like\nBMW and H.G. sell women's lines of clothing of decent quality, but\nfit is iffy.\n\nA while ago, Noemi and Lisa Sieverts were talking about starting\na business doing just this sort of thing. Don't know what they\nfinally decided.\n\nBeth", "\n\n\n\nYet another Jeep wannabe designed for yuppies who will never take it off road but want\nto look \"outdoorsey\".", "Archive-name: rec-autos/part5\n\n[this article is one of a pair of articles containing commonly\nasked automotive questions; the other article contains questions\nmore geared to the automotive enthusiast, and so is not crossposted\nto misc.consumers. -- rpw]\n\n [changes as of 14 April 1993: revised brake fluid section, as\n non-silicone DOT-5 fluids are now apparently available -- rpw]\n\n Commonly Asked Automotive Questions\n\n\nTire Questions:\n\nQ: What do the funny numbers on the sides of my tires mean?\n\nA: Typically, you will see something like 195/60HR14. the 195 is the\n overall width of the tire in millimeters, the tread is usually\n narrower. The 60 is the `aspect ratio'; it indicates the height of the\n sidewall of the tire relative to the overall width. Our example tire\n has a sidewall height of 0.60 * 195 ~= 117 mm. The 14 is the wheel\n diameter in inches; there are also some special tires called `TRX'\n tires which have three digit metric wheel diameter designations, like\n 390, which is in millimeters. The R means Radial, and the H is a speed\n rating indicating the highest speed at which the tire, when properly\n inflated and carrying an appropriate load, may safely operate. Common\n speed ratings are S (112MPH), T (118MPH), H (130MPH), and V (up to\n 150MPH.)\n\n Recent changes to the method for specifying tire sizes move the speed\n rating to a different part of the designation; you may therefore find\n designations like 195/60R14 85H; the 85 indicates the per-tire load\n associated with the speed rating -- exceeding this load in continuous\n operation at the rated speed is dangerous practice. What follows is\n a table showing a number of `load indices' and corresponding maximum\n per-tire loads:\n\n Load Index 50 51 88 89 112 113 145 149 157\n Max Load (Kg) 190 195 560 580 1120 1150 2900 3250 4125\n\n Note that the usual mass vs. weight confusion occurs in this table.\n\n In some cases, the letters P or LT may be found in front of a tire\n size; the LT designation indicates Light Truck, and the P designation\n indicates Passenger car. If no letter is given, then the application\n of the tire is Passenger car usage. As far as I know, these letters\n only appear in the US market. The LT designation is prinicipally of\n interest to owners of light trucks and other utility vehicles. For\n the owner of a passenger vehicle, there is no meaningful difference\n between a tire with a P designation and one with no designation at\n all.\n\n If the aspect ratio is omitted, it is probably 80, but may be 78.\n\n Tires with an MS (mud/snow) designation may have their speed rating\n reduced by 20 km/h (about 12mph.)\n\n There is an additional set of ratings on tires for temperature,\n traction, and treadwear. Temperature and Traction are graded\n A, B, and C (with A the best and C the worst); treadwear is\n a numeric rating. These values are of limited value, as they\n are assigned somewhat arbitrarily by tire manufacturers and are\n thus not useful in comparing different brands of tires.\n\nQ: My car has tires with a funny size designation: 185/65HR390; can i put\n normal tires on the car?\n\nA: Your tires are called TRX tires; they were devised by Michelin.\n Because of a somewhat different bead design, they are incompatible\n with normal tires; Michelin used a different diameter wheel for them\n so that they could not be mounted on the wrong type wheel (and so that\n more conventional tires could not be mounted on TRX type wheels.)\n You will need to aquire different wheels to put a normal tire on your\n car; it is barely possible to fit normal tires on TRX wheels, and horribly\n dangerous to do so (the tires may simply peel off the rims in a corner,\n or possibly blow out at high speed.) TRX type tires are becoming hard\n to find; in addition to Michelin, Avon makes suitable tires. Goodyear\n has apparently discontinued their line of TRX tires.\n\nQ: Can I rotate radials from side to side, or rotate them only on one side\n of my car?\n\nA: Car and tire manufacturers have differing views on this subject; many\n say that swapping radials between the left and right hand sides of a\n car is now ok (this group includes Michelin and Goodyear); others\n (for example, Pirelli and Nokia) will void warranties if such swapping\n is done. The best advice is to read your tire manual carefully before\n rotating your tires, and stick to the manufacturer's recommendations.\n\nQ: How many snow tires should I buy, and if I buy 2, which end of the\n car should I put them on?\n\nA: In short, 4, and both ends. To explain, many drivers in areas that don't\n get excessive snow or who don't drive agressively (or at all) in snow\n conditions get away with only two snows on the drive wheels, but there\n are circumstances where this can be dangerous practice. With a rear\n wheel drive car, you can choose between being able to start the car\n going (a function of the rear axle) or stopping and turning the car\n (a function of the front axle.) In a front wheel drive car, you start,\n stop, and turn with the front end. The primary risk of putting the\n snow tires on the front only is that if you have to put on the brakes\n while going downhill, you run a serious risk of going downhill backwards.\n\nRadar Detectors and Speed Limits:\n\nQ: Why aren't there any comments on Radar Detectors and Speed Limits\n in this Q&A posting?\n\nA: Because questions about detectors and speed limits crossposted between\n misc.consumers and rec.autos.* always start long, tedious, and pointless\n flame wars. If you want to talk about either of these topics, please\n subscribe to rec.autos or alt.flame and keep it there.\n\nSafety Equipment:\n\nQ: Do airbags really work?\n\nA: Preliminary statistics suggest the following: Airbags work much\n better than no belts; good 3 point belts alone work much better than\n Airbags alone, and AirBags + 3 point belts work slightly better than\n 3 point belts alone. The con to airbags is that some designs tend\n to burn the driver's hands when venting the byproducts of the\n explosion that occurs inside the bag, and that some designs (but\n not all) may knock the driver's hands from the wheel, making retention\n of control of the vehicle after the bag deflates more difficult.\n\nBrake Questions:\n\nQ: Do I always need to get the rotors on my disk brakes turned? Midas\n always wants to do this.\n\nA: No. There are specific conditions that mandate turning or replacing\n rotors; some shops try and make a little extra money by replacing rotors\n more often than is strictly necessary. if the rotors are not warped\n warped, and only lightly grooved, then there is no need to replace or\n to turn them. Note also that some rotors (the rotors on many Hondas\n are a good example) are so narrow to begin with that it is not practical\n to turn them; they must be replaced when they become too thin, warped,\n or badly grooved.\n\nQ: They tell me I should downshift when braking to slow my car down. Is\n this really a good idea?\n\nA: It used to be a very good idea, back in the days of mediocre, fade\n prone drum brakes. In modern disc brake equipped cars, use of\n downshifting to slow the car is not really necessary, except in cases\n of long, steep downhill runs. Otherwise, modern disc brakes are more\n than adequate to stop a passenger car in all circumstances, and they\n are much cheaper to repair than clutch linings.\n\n On the other hand, many standard driver's license tests in the USA\n still specify that the driver being tested downshift under braking; I\n suggest that before taking a US driver's test, you either 1) learn to\n do this smoothly (which takes some time and practice) or 2) borrow a\n car with an automatic to take the test.\n\nQ: How often should I replace my brake fluid?\n\nA: Probably more often than you do. Traditional brake fluids tend to\n absorb water; this water can corrode internal parts of the brake\n system and also lower the boiling point of the fluid. DOT-3 type\n are older fluids; DOT-4 and DOT-5 are newer specifications. The\n principal differences are in wet and dry boiling points; the dry\n boiling point is important in fresh brake fluid, but the wet boiling\n point is important in older brake fluid. DOT-3 fluids have the lowest\n wet and dry boiling point _requirements_; DOT-4 fluids have better\n boiling point requirements; and DOT-5 fluids have the best boiling\n point requirements (but DOT-5 fluids are not clearly superior; see\n the next Q&A for more details.) While the requirements imply that\n DOT-4 fluids are better than DOT-3 fluids, there may be specific\n cases where a DOT-3 fluid is preferable, but these are mostly\n competition applications. Otherwise, DOT-4 type fluids offer _much_\n improved brake pedal feel. Replacement once a year is recommended for\n DOT-4 fluids, although agressive drivers may profit by changing out\n fluid more frequently, or at least bleeding a modest amount of fluid\n out of the brake calipers fairly regularly.\n\nQ: What about DOT-5 brake fluids?\n\nA: This breaks down in to two parts. The DOT-5 specification looks\n excellent for performance, but the first DOT-5 fluids were Silicone\n based. Silicone fluids are a tricky proposition. Unlike DOT-3 and\n DOT-4 fluids, they do not absorb water at all. While this may sound\n like a feature, the problem is that any water present pools up in\n such systems, interfering with braking performance and corroding any\n metals at the spot where the pooling is occuring. The water will tend\n to migrate downwards in the braking system to the brake calipers, where\n most of the corrosion occurs.\n\n Because of this phenomenon, it is essential when converting to\n Silicone to empty the entire brake system and flush it throughly\n beforehand; some even recommend replacing all rubber parts in the\n brake system when converting to Silicone fluids.\n\n Two other issues that come up with silicone fluids: 1) they are\n difficult to pour cleanly (that is, without air bubbles), which\n interferes with getting a good brake pedal feel, and 2) while they\n generally have much higher boiling points than DOT-4 fluids, they\n do have high temperature failure modes which are indistinguishable\n in effect from boiling DOT-4 fluids. SIlicone fluids may make sense\n in some street car applications, but they are certainly not\n recommended for high performance driving applications, and the\n economics are questionable for street use.\n\n I have recently become aware of new fluids that meet the DOT-5 standard\n that do not contain Silicones; these fluids appear to be reasonably\n compatible with the older DOT-3 and DOT-4 fluids, but I have little\n information at this time.\n\nQ: ABS is available on some of the cars I'm looking at, but it costs\n more. Is it worth it?\n\nA: This does not have a cut and dried answer; therefore, this answer will\n be quite long in order to cover the pros and cons. The short answer\n is that ABS costs more, both initially, and to maintain, will generally\n work better for the `average driver' (that is to say, a driver who does\n not have extensive experience in high performance driving techniques),\n and may require the `unlearning' of some obsolete braking techniques\n like pump braking which should be unlearned in any case.\n\n Now for the long answer. ABS works by monitering the wheels of the\n car, looking for signs of locked brakes. It may or may not be able\n be able to distinguish between the different wheels (there are several\n systems on the market.) It cannot detect impending lockup (which is\n what you would really want in an ideal world), but only the existence\n of lockup. The sensors used vary; some of the less well designed\n sensors are sensitive to tire size, and to brake pad material, and\n may cease to function properly if the owner deviates from original\n equipment or OE-equivalent components.\n\n When the sensors detect lockup, the ABS system responds by unlocking\n the brakes (either individually, or all at once, depending on the\n system.) If the driver keeps their foot firmly planted, the ABS\n will end up cycling between the locked and unlocked states (if a\n sensor existed that could detect _impending lockup_, then we could\n sit right at that point, which is where maximum braking effect is\n achieved.) This pulsing can often be felt in the brake pedal, as\n the system cycles. The percentage of the time that the brakes are\n truly engaged is called the `duty cycle'; typically in an ABS system\n this is about 40% On dry pavement, a trained driver can beat this\n duty cycle quite reliably using a technique called threshold braking;\n on wet pavement, braking is so chancy that ABS will outperform\n threshold braking nearly every time. Unfortunately, on mud and on\n snow, often maximum braking effect can be acheived with the brakes\n locked; only Audi, of the manufacturers producing ABS-equipped cars,\n has seen fit to provide a disable switch for the ABS system for this\n eventuality.\n\n A particularly important feature of ABS is that it preserves\n steering control. This is the case simply because, if you are\n braking near the limit and turn the wheel, the ABS will release\n the brakes if it sees steering-triggered lockup, and back off\n on the percentage of the time that the brakes are applied.\n Braking distances will lengthen accordingly.\n\n An important caution: ABS cannot exceed the maximum theoretical\n braking force in any given situation; if you start sliding on\n glare ice, don't expect an ABS system to help you out very much.\n The coefficient of friction is not changed by the presence of an\n ABS system in your car.\n\n As far as maintenence goes, in addition to the potential\n restrictions I've listed above, you have to worry about the\n following: 1) parts costs are much higher; the OE master cylinder\n for my obscure european sedan lists for $185, but the OE master\n cylinder for the ABS-equipped version of the same car lists for\n over $1000. Most manufacturers explicitly forbid use of DOT-5\n (silicone) brake fluids in ABS-equipped vehicles. Because of\n the potential cost of replacement of corroded brake system\n components, regular (I suggest annual) replacement of brake fluid\n becomes very important.\n\nQ: What about this threshold braking business?\n\nA: [normally, I'd not put this in the consumers Q&A, but recent\n publicity about a number of accidents involving police drivers\n in ABS-equipped Chevy Caprices suggests that this section is\n needed here -- rpw]\n\n Threshold braking is a technique practiced by all serious high\n performance drivers; if made a habit, it replaces the `stab\n the pedal and lock 'em up' panic habit entirely, and is much\n to be prefered. Basically, the premise is that tires generate\n maximum braking force when they have just started to slide, but\n just before the wheels lock up entirely. Drivers who threshold\n brake learn to feel what this `threshold' feels like, and learn\n to search for it and hit it on the application of the brake\n pedal. In many cars, you can feel that you are near the\n threshold when the pedal starts to firm up as you depress it.\n In any case, if you can't hear the tires whine just a bit, you're\n not very near the threshold.\n\n In a car with ABS, often there is a twinge in the pedal just\n before the system starts cycling; if the driver backs off on\n the pedal just a tad when the twinge is felt, then they are very\n close to the threshold and they'll probably achieve better\n stopping distances than if they just punched it and let the ABS\n take over.\n\n Recently, there has been a rash of publicity over a number of\n accidents, and one death, involving police cars equipped with\n ABS systems. The police departments in question quickly blamed\n the new ABS systems, but according to Autoweek magazine, it now\n seems clear that the problem was a lack of training; none of the\n involved officers had any recent performance driving training.\n There is reason to believe that the drivers reacted to the pulsing\n brake pedal by `pump braking', an old and discredited technique\n of stabbing and releasing the brake pedal, the goal being to\n try and get brakes back with a failing hydraulic system. If you\n think about it for a minute, you'll realize that pump braking must\n cut the effective operation of a working brake system by at least\n 1/2, so if you cut the 40% duty cycle of an ABS system by that\n much, you are giving up most of your brakes for the wrong reason.\n Threshold braking has the advantage in that it is an effective\n and useful technique regardless of whether your car has ABS; if\n you do fear a failed hydraulic system, then one or two stabs at\n the pedal will be sufficient. \n\nGas Questions:\n\nQ: Does High Octane gasoline help?\n\nA: Maybe, maybe not. Some cars have knock sensors, and can adjust the\n engine timing or turbocharger boost to suit the gasoline being used.\n On most cars, however, you should use the cheapest gas that makes your\n car run well. Check your owner's manual for details on what your car\n needs.\n\nQ: My car was made for leaded gasoline. Will unleaded gas hurt it?\n\nA: It is possible that unleaded gas may *slightly* increase valve wear,\n although the Amoco Oil company argues otherwise. The actual increase\n in valve wear will be almost unnoticeable, however, as modern leaded\n gasolines actually contain very little lead. You should, however,\n check your owner's manual; many cars from the early 1970s do not\n actually require leaded gasoline.\n\nQ: Do fuel treatments help? What kind should I use?\n\nA: Some do and some don't. During the winter, it is a good idea to use\n dry gas; however, some may be harmful to fuel injection systems.\n Never use an additive containing Methanol (sometimes called Methyl\n Alcohol); such additives may damage fuel systems in cars with carbs\n and almost certainly will damage cars with fuel injection.\n\n Manufacturer's opinions vary on additives containing Ethanol (sometimes\n called Ethyl Alcohol); if your car has fuel injection, check the owner's\n manual on your car before using these. Most manufacturers consider\n 10% Ethanol acceptable in gasoline. Additives with Isopropyl Alcohol\n (Isopropanol), and Petroleum Distillates are fine in fuel injected\n cars.\n\n An occasional bottle of fuel injector cleaner is helpful in cars with\n fuel injectors, although many premium gasolines contain detergents that\n do the same job. Some off brands of fuel injector cleaners contain\n Ethanol or Methanol; always check the ingredients before putting anything\n in your gas tank.\n\n There are a small number of particularly good additives; these are\n noticeably more expensive that the run-of-the-mill ones, but work\n much, much better. Among these are Chevron Techron, Redline SL-1,\n Wurth `Lubrimoly Ventil Sauber', and BG 44K. A bottle of one of these,\n once every six months, is highly recommended.\n\nQ: What about detergent gasolines?\n\nA: The quality of detergent packages in gasolines varies somewhat; BMW\n has instituted a testing program, and gasoline brands which pass this\n test may advertise that fact. Stickers indicating passage of the test\n are now beginning to appear on fuel pumps at gas stations. If such\n gasolines are used, then fuel injector cleaners are probably optional.\n Beforewarned that while use of BMW approved gasolines will keep a clean\n engine clean, they may not clean a motor with bad valve deposits.\n\nLubrication Questions:\n\nQ: What do the numbers and letters in a motor oil designation mean?\n\nA: There are several different items encoded. There is a two-letter\n code indicating the type of detergent package that the manufacturer\t\n uses in the oil; this looks like SE,SF,CD or such. The S codes are\n for gasoline engine applications; the C codes are for diesel engine\n applications. The second letter is assigned in sequence as new levels\n of protection are developed; thus SF is considered better than SE,\n SE is considered better than SD, and so forth.\n\n The more noticeable designation is the oil weight. This is either\n a single number (e.g., 30 weight) or a pair of numbers separated by\n the letter W (e.g., 10W30.) The latter type is much more commonly\n used these days, and are the only type that most automobile\n manufacturers specify in operators manuals. The first number in the\n designation (10W) is the apparent viscosity of the oil when it is cold;\n the W stands for `winter'. The second number (30) is the viscosity\n of the oil when hot. There is a trick here; the oil doesn't actually\n get thicker (turn from 10 weight to 30 weight) as it gets hotter. What\n is actually happening is that when the oil is cold, it has the viscosity\n of a cold 10 weight oil. as it gets hotter, it doesn't get thin as fast\n as a 10W oil would; by the time it is up to temperature, it has the\n viscosity of a hot 30 weight oil.\n\n Note that these numbers actually specify ranges of viscosities; not\n all 10W oils have exactly the same viscosity when cold, and not all\n 30 weight oils have the same viscosity when hot. Note also that the\n novel behaviour of multi-grade oils is caused by additives, and it has\n been reported that with the sole exception of Castrol GTX, 10W40 oils\n do not retain their multi-grade characteristics well over time. 10W30,\n 15W40, and 20W50 oils work very well, though.\n\nQ: Are `quick lube' places any good?\n\nA: Some do adequate work, but there are quite a few incompetent ones out\n there. Let the buyer beware, watch them while they work, make sure\n that they don't overtorque the oil drain plug, and keep your hand on\n your wallet at all times.\n\nQ: Are oil additives like Slick-50 or Tufoil any good?\n\nA: Slick-50 and Tufoil are PTFE-based additives. Many of these have\n come onto the market recently; they are different from the moly-based\n additives that have been around since the early 50's. PTFE is the\n chemical name for Teflon(TM), a trademark owned by DuPont. In general,\n auto manufacturers do not recommend use of these products. Most USENET\n responses to questions on these additives are favorable (slight\n increase of MPG after application, smoother revving) but long term\n results (whether PTFE additives are effective after 5K miles) are\n debatable. Some manufacturers (such as Saab) claim that either the\n product or the engine flush that preceeds application causes\n deterioration of the oil seals and eventual leakage. Some BMW owners\n have reported death of valve seals shortly after the addition of\n Slick 50 to their cars. This writer has been cautioned by a Slick-50\n Dealer (!) that Slick-50 should _not_ be used in Japanese motors, as\n it may clog the oil return passages in the engine. Otherwise, there are\n no known reports of damage caused by PTFE additives.\n\n On the other hand, there are satified Slick 50 customers in the world.\n\nQ: Do synthetic oils really work?\n\nA: Yes, but. More specifically, most auto manufactuers accept synthetics,\n but disagree with the extremely long oil change intervals claimed by\n oil manufacturers. Auto manufacturers recommend that you continue to\n change oil at the intervals recommended in the owners manual for your\n car. Even if you decide to try the longer intervals, at least change\n the oil filter at regular intervals, as synthetics get just as dirty\n as conventional oils.\n\n Synthetic gear lubricants for manual transmissions are another matter\n entirely; Amsoil, Redline, and AGIP are very highly regarded and very\n effective. Mobil 1 synthetic gear lube gets mixed reviews, however.\n\nQ: Manufacturers are specifying longer and longer oil change intervals.\n How often should I change my oil?\n\nA: It depends on how you drive. If your car always (or nearly always)\n gets warmed up, and you don't drive it very hard and keep the revs\n down, the manufacturer's recommendation is probably fine. If, however,\n you drive it hard, drive it at high revs, or alternatively, if you\n only drive it to and from the supermarket so that it doesn't get up\n to temperature, then you may wish to change oil much more often,\n perhaps at 3000 mile intervals (given that most manufacturers are\n now specifying 7500 mile intervals.) If you don't drive your car\n much at all (say 7500 miles a year), then you probably want to change\n oil every six months anyway. If you are storing a car during the winter,\n then change oil before storing it and change oil when you bring it out\n of storage.\n\nMisc. Questions:\n\nQ: My car has a timing belt. I hear that bad things happen when they\n break. What's the story?\n\nA: It depends on the internal design of the motor. Early Ford Escorts,\n for example, will suffer severe valve damage if the belt breaks, but\n the newer cars will just require a tow and installation of a new belt.\n Some Honda motors will not be damaged, but others will be.\n\n If no replacement interval is specified for your car, then change the\n belt at least every 60,000 miles; some cars may require more frequent\n replacement. Ask your dealer or independent mechanic. Also, ask if\n there are any related repairs that should take place at the same time\n (for example, the same Ford Escorts that suffer valve damage also have\n a timing belt driven water pump, which has been known to seize,\n destroying the timing belt, and which then causes major valve damage\n as a side effect. Replacing the timing belt while ignoring the water\n pump can be a costly mistake.)\n\nQ: Why would anyone be stupid enough to design a motor so that it\n self destructs when the timing belt breaks?\n\nA: For performance reasons. Compromising piston design so that the\n valves and pistons will not collide requires that the compression\n ratio of the engine be reduced significantly; this is why you are\n more likely to avoid valve damage in economy cars than in performance\n oriented vehicles.\n\nQ: What causes Unintended Acceleration?\n\nA: The final report of the National Highway, Transportation, and Safety\n Administration concluded that unintended acceleration could not be\n caused by any mechanical failure of the vehicle in question and at the\n same time be consistent with the physical evidence. The NHTSA report\n goes on to conclude that `pedal misapplication' by the vehicle operator\n is probably the cause.", "\n\n\nOnly if you want to stop. Seriously though, every 2 years you should\nhave this done. Brake fluid absorbs water over time, the water becomes\nsteam when the fluid gets hot, and steam compresses. You'll also have\nbetter luck with the longevity of master cylinder, calipers and brake\nlines.", ": >: English cars:-\n: >\n: >: Rover, Reliant, Morgan, Bristol, Rolls Royce, etc.\n: > ^^^^^^\n: > Talk about Harleys using old technology, these\n: >Morgan people *really* like to use old technology.\n\n: Well, if you want to pick on Morgan, why not attack its ash (wood)\n: frame or its hand-bent metal skin (just try and get a replacement :-)). \n: I thought the kingpost suspension was one of the Mog's better features.\n\nHey! I wasn't picking on Morgan. They use old technology. That's all\nI said. There's nothing wrong with using old technology. People still\nuse shovels to dig holes even though there are lots of new powered implements\nto dig holes with. ", "DJ> Subject: New aircraft TU-154M for leasing, set spare parts.\n DJ> ~~\n DJ> There are a few things wrong with the potential sale of this \n DJ> aircraft: \n\n DJ> There is starting to be a glut of new aircraft on the market\n DJ> (Airlines are taking delivery, then mothballing their new \n DJ> planes). \n\n DJ> Unless the fuel efficiency is better than the Airbus 320 or \n DJ> Boeing 767, this plane is not economically feasible for the \n DJ> major players (airlines). Unless the price is real cheap, and \n DJ> you have an owner that doesn't care about fuel economy (Saudi \n DJ> Family, maybe??) sales ought to be pretty glim. \n\nUmmm...\n\nI'd be surprised if you couldn't find a gov't aid program to\nsubsidize and/or underwrite the lease... that could make it\nquite an attractive arrangement...\n\nBizarre? Yes. Impossible? Not really...", "\nOooo,I hope it's nothing like I had on my Seca turbo.\nI had locked up the back wheel and forgot about it.\nWhen I took off I heard a 'clunk', but I just drove away\nleaving the lock broken on the ground. Real security\nin action.\n", "\n\n\n\nAccording to _The Complete Guide To Specialty Cars_, 7th Edition, from\nCrown Publishing, it's the VW Kubelwagen (w/ 2 dots over the 'u').\nThe company is:\n\n Wolfkam\n P.O. Box 1608, Vika\n 0119 Oslo 1, Norway\n\n 011-47-30-26601 voice line\n 011-47-2-166138 FAX line\n\n\nAn excerpt from the blurb:\n\n ...This fine Kubel clone from Wolfkam is a very close copy of\n the original, and offers the same all-weather and cross-country\n capabilities as its WWII forebears. The robust fiberglass body\n kit is very complete, and includes all the hardware you will\n need, except for your own VW donor car. The phone number [...]\n is the entire AT&T dialing sequence; call and ask for Karl\n Torum, or send $5 cash or _International Money Order_\n for a complete literature package.\n\n\nGeorge.\n\nP.S., I'd be happy to share what info I have on other kit cars and\n kit car manufacturers.", ": I hate to admit this, and I'm still mentally kicking myself for it.\n: I rode the brand new K75RT home last Friday night. 100 miles in rain\n: and darkness. No problems. Got it home and put it on the center stand.\n: The next day I pushed it off the center stand in preparation for going\n: over to a friend's house to pose. You guessed it. It got away from me\n: and landed on its right side. \n: Scratched the lower fairing, cracked the right mirror, and cracked the\n: upper fairing. \n: *DAMN* am I stupid! It's going to cost me ~$200 to get the local\n: body shop to fix it. And that is after I take the fairing off for them.\n: Still, that's probably cheaper than the mirror alone if I bought a \n: replacement from BMW.\n\nYou got off cheap. My sister's ex-boyfriend was such an incessant pain\nin the ass about wanting to ride my bikes (no way, Jose) that I\nfinally took him to Lindner's BMW in New Canaan, CT last fall where\nI had seen a nice, used K100RS in perfect condition. After telling\neveryone in the shop his Norton war stories from fifteen years ago,\nsigning the liability waiver, and getting his pre-flight, off he went...\n\nWell, not quite. I walked out of a pizza shop up the street,\nfeeling good about myself (made my sister's boyfriend happy and got\nthe persistent wanker off my ass for good), heard the horrendous\nracket of an engine tortured to its red line and then a crash. I\nsaw people running towards the obvious source of the disturbance...\nJeff laying under the BMW with the rear wheel spinning wildly and\nsomeone groping for the kill switch. I stared in disbelief with\na slice hanging out of my mouth as Matty, the shop manager, slid\nup beside me and asked, \"Friend of yours, Steve?\". \"Shit, Matty,\nit could have been worse. That could been my FLHS!\"\n\nJeff hadn't made it 10 inches. Witnesses said he lifted his feet\nbefore letting out the clutch and gravity got the best of him.\nJeff claimed that the clutch didn't engage. Matty was quick.\nWhile Jeff was still stuttering in embarrassed shock he managed\nto snatch Jeff's credit card for a quick imprint and signature. Twenty\nminutes later, when Jeff's color had paled to a flush, Matty\npresented him with an estimate of $580 for a busted right mirror\nand a hairline crack in the fairing. That was for fixing the crack\nand masking the damaged area, not a new fairing. Or he could buy the\nbike.\n\nI'm not sure what happened later as my sister split up with Jeff shortly\nafterwards (to hook up with another piece of work) except that Matty\ntold me he ran the charge through in December and that it went\nuncontested.\n\n", "Could someone explain how to make sense of drag coefficients (i.e Cd) mentioned in magazines. I understand that lower numbers signify better aerodynamics but\nwhat does this mean in the real world. Is there a way to calculate new top speeds(assuming the car is not rev limited at top speed) or mileage benefits if a identical car had the Cd reduced from .34 to .33.", "For Sale:\n\n1982 - 16' Hobie Cat Special, very good condition with\ntrailer, catbox, righting system, many extras. Boat\nis currently garaged in Natick MA, 25 miles east of\nBoston.", "For sale:\n\n Model : Husqvarna 510 TE (enduro model)\n Year : 1988\n Engine : 500 cc Four Stroke\n\n Extras : - 1992 ignition (for easy starting)\n - Suspension by Aftershock\n - Custom carbon fiber/Kevlar skid plate\n - Quick steering geometry\n - Stock (EPA legal and quiet) exhaust system\n - Bark busters and hand guards\n - Motion Pro clutch cable\n\n Price : $2200\n\n Contact: Denis Concordel E-Mail: denis@apldbio.com\n MaBell: (415) 570 6667 (work)\n (415) 494 7109 (home)\n\n I am selling my trusty Husky... hopefully to buy a Husaberg... This is\n a very good dirt bike and has been maintained perfectly. I never had\n any problems with it.\n\n It's a four stroke, 4 valves, liquid cooled engine. It is heavier than \n a 250 2 stroke but still lighter than a Honda XR600 and has a lot better \n suspension (Ohlins shock, Husky fork) than the XR. For the casual or non\n competitive rider, the engine is much better than any two stroke.\n You can easily lug up hills and blast through trails with minimum gear\n changes.\n \n The 1992 ignition and the carefully tuned carburation makes this bike\n very easy to start (starts of first kick when cold or hot). There is a\n custom made carbon/kevlar (light 1 pound) wrap around skid plate to protect\n the engine cases and the water pump. The steering angle has been reduced \n by 2 degree to increase steering quickness. This with the suspension tune-up\n by Phil Douglas of Aftershock (Multiple time ISDE rider) gives it a better\n ride than most bike: plush suspension, responsive steering with no head shake.", "\nYeah, but I hate to follow them with the exhaust at ground level. Not all\ndiesels are well maintained, either, it seems they run for so long that\npeople keep them going long after the top end is worn out.\n\n", "\n\nI really don't know where to post this question so I figured that\nthis board would be most appropriate.\nI was wondering about those massive concrete cylinders that\nare ever present at nuclear poer sites. They look like cylinders\nthat have been pinched in the middle. Does anybody know what the\nactual purpose of those things are?. I hear that they're called\n'Cooling Towers' but what the heck do they cool?\nI hope someone can help \n\n\n", " ^^^\nWow! Courses in Georgia are much cheaper. $85 for both.\n\nThe list looks good, but I'd also add:\n Heavy Boots (work, hiking, combat, or similar) $45", "\nAre you serious?!!! Here's an exercise next time you are in the barnyard. \nTake *your* model and hold it directly above a fresh cowpie. Then release the\nmodel. You will observe that on its own *your* model will assume a trajectory\nearthward and come to rest exactly where it belongs. Watch out for splatters,\nparticularly if you are wearing shorts when you perform this experiment.", "I have a 1982 Regal and I am interested in buying\na fiberglass hood, trunk, and bumpers for it. Does anybody\nknow of a company who makes fiberglass parts for Regals ??\n\n\n\t\tThanks in advance,\n", ": \tHow do you know what kind of gas to buy ? Depending on the compression\n: ratio of your engine I heard. Ok, but what kind of gas goes for what kind\n: of compression.\n: \n: \tI'm asking this because I used to put 87 in my Hawk GT and the other day,\n: I changed because I wanted to see if there was a difference. And I don't\n: know if I'm being subjective or what, but it seems like the bike runs\n: better !\n: \n\tRun your bike on the lowest octane that it will run smoothly on. \nHigher octane fuel is not \"better\" than lower octane gas. Pick up the last \nAmerican Roadracing magazine. There's a short article in there about \noctane and the misconceptions many people make about the subject. Look at\nyour owners manual. I believe it states 87 is just fine. \n\n ==============================================================================\n Erik Astrup AFM #422 DoD #683 \n\n 1993 CBR 900RR * 1990 CBR 600 * 1990 Concours * 1990 Ninja 250 ", "I saw his bike parked in front of a bar a few weeks later without the\ndog, and I wandered in to find out what had happened.\n\nHe said, \"Somebody stole m' damn dog!\". They left the Harley behind.\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------", "I think I've seen this bike. Is it all white, with a sea-green stripe\nand just 'HONDA' for decals, I've seen such a bike numerous times over\nby Sewall hall at CU, and I thought it was a race-prepped CBR. \nI didn't see it over at the EC parking lot (I buzzed over there on my \nway home, all of 1/2 block off my route!) but it was gone.\n\nIs a single sided swingarm available for the CBR? I would imagine so, \nkinda neccisary for quick tire changes. When I first saw it, I assumed it\nwas a bike repainted to cover crash damage.", "\nSometimes yes, sometimes no. BDI cagers usually move back then.\nHyperagressive assholes just move closer. (Something about\ntestosterone-stimulated behavior, I think.) It's kinda like waving a red\nflag at a bull. All in all, if you can't move over and let the jerk by,\nit's better than nothing...\n\n tom coradeschi <+> tcora@pica.army.mil", "\n\nBelieve Bugatti's coming(has) out one. Something like 4 turbos\nand mucho macho HP. One cool price too, as i heard. At any rate,\nthe point is, i'm pretty sure there is, indeed, one in production...\ntho rather limited..", "\nAll Toyotas have airbags with a real horn. Come on, how hard can it\nbe to put a little pressure plate there. I hope Toyota doesn't follow\neveryone else and make the horns little buttons that I wouldn't want\nto fumble for.\n\njohn\n", "\nSeems to me that the driver was driving the vehicle visually impaired.\nIsn't that like not scraping ice and snow off your windshield and such?\n\nSay, that's another thing that bugs me. Why don't people scrape their\ndamn windows? I've seen people driving cars with *barely* the driver's\nhalf of the windshield cleared. Nothing else cleared. This seems\npretty stupid and isn't there something (probably varies state to state)\nthat says a certain percentage of the glass must be clear? Oh, well.\n", "\nOk, here's what I understand:\n\nThe SL/SL1/SL2/SW1/SW2 was meant to compete with the following cars:\n\nHonda Civic\nToyota Tercel (SL,SL1)\nToyota Corolla (SL1,SL2)\nNissan Sentra\nMazda 323/Protoge'\nSubaru Loyale/Impreza\nIsuzu Stylus\nGeo Prizm\nFord Escort\nMercury Tracer\nMistubishi Mirage\nPlymouth/Dodge Colt\n\n\nTheir core competition is the Civic, Corolla, and Sentra. Most of the other\nmodels are in the same class, but aren't the first cars you would think of.\nI threw in the Escort/Tracer because it has a good amount of Japanese\ntechnology and has similar reliability stats. I didn't include domestic small\ncars such as the Cavalier, Sunbird, Shadow, Sundance, Tempo, and Topaz, since I\nthink Saturn is going after cars that have at least some degree of Japanese\nroots.\n\nThe SC1/SC2 was meant to compete against the following cars:\n\nToyota Paseo\nHonda Civic Si/Civic Coupes/del Sol Si\nNissan NX1600/NX2000\nMazda MX-3\nIsuzu Impulse\nGeo Storm\nFord Escort GT\n\n\nIf you look at the prices of these cars, they're more expensive than they're\n4-door counterparts. The is good reason for this. It is a more upscale and\ntrend-driven market. Even though many of these models are based on sedan\nplatforms, their interior, etc. is good enough to warrant slightly higher\nprices. Here are some of the platform derivations I can think of:\n\nTercel -> Paseo\nSentra -> NX1600/NX2000\nCivic -> del Sol\n323 -> MX-3 (not sure on this one)\nStylus -> Impulse/Storm\n\nTo illustrate, a Tercel starts at around $8000, while the Paseo starts at\naround $11,000. Even a 4-door Tercel will cost less than a 2-door Paseo. Now,\nyou might be saying that the Tercel doesn't offer the power that some 4-doors\noffer. What I mean is that there is no 4-dr Tercel with a comparable\npowerplant as its sport coupe derivative. Let's take another example: the\nIsuzu Stylus XS and Impulse XS/Storm GSi. Both have the same powerplants (a\n1.6L 140hp engine), but the smaller 2-dr coupes are generally more expensive.\nAgain, this is because the two-door sport coupe market is a more\nfashion-oriented and trend-setting segment. People are willing to pay more\nmoney for this type of car. \n\n\nIn short, even though the SC1/SC2 may be smaller, hence \"less\" car, it's market\norientation dictates a slightly higher price than its mechanically equivalent\nsedan (SL1/SL2) version.\n\nI hope this clears things up a bit......\n", "\nEvery bit as fast as a dirtbike, in the right terrain. And we eat\nflies, thank you.\n\n\nthen why does it go down?\n\n\nSo do most helmetless motorcyclists.\n\n\nhelmetless != goggleless\n", "\nIs this reverisible? You can unpoke as easy as you poke?\n", "the\n\nJust use a thin film of epoxy. That!s what I did. Epoxy conducts heat\nfairly well. And my heat sink gets warm to prove it. I looked for the\nstuff myself & my local EE jocks said to use epoxy.\n\nHave fun.", "\nYes. He thought about it.\n\nJack Waters II\nDoD#1919", "\n\tHow about some citations or is this just impressionistic speculation\n\ton your part?\n\n For 30 years I've been laboring under the delusion that chain drives\n\twere more efficient that shaft drives. Chain drives are also stronger.\n\t(Ever seen a successful shaftie dragster? No.)\n\n\tNo flames, please! I've got both kinds of drives.", "To: Dodge Dart collectors\n\nI have a 1964 Dodge (25th anniversary) Dart 273ci V8 wagon to turn into cash.\nMy asking price is $300.00 although we can negotiate. The car currently\nresides in Union City, California. Thats on the east side of the San Francisco\nBay Area in the state of California of the United states of America on the\ncontinent of North America of the planet Earth, third planetary body out from\nSol, a mid range yellowish star in the Western Spiral Arm of the Milkyway\nGalaxy.\n\ntoowhit: north of Silicon Valley\n\nif interested pleas contact Scott by the following means:\n internet sbrogii@tymnet.com\n home answering machine 510.489.6165\n business voice mail 408.922.6547\n loud yell & wave money out the window\n ^(not recommended in downtown urban environment)", "\n\nAs I recall from reading posts here a while back, Rovax (Rovacs?) died\nbecause it was larger and noisier than the competing cheap R12 systems\nof it day. Probably a case of bad timing. I think the system would\nhave a better chance today now that R12 systems are on death row, but\ninvestors may be hard to come by a second time.\n", "it seems the 200 miles of trailering in the rain has rusted my bike's headers.\nthe metal underneath is solid, but i need to sand off the rust coating and\nrepaint the pipes black. any recommendations for paint and application\nof said paint?\n\nthanks!", "Deloreans NEVER had a factory V8. They were considering production\nwith a turbo (or twin turbo, I forget) version of the standard V6. As\nto who produced it, you got me!\n\nJonathan", "\n\nIn that case why do they chase ST1100s & Goldwings?\n\nTony\n", "\n\nI've found mine ('93 Probe GT) to do quite well. \n\n[window problem deleted, artical has been trimmed]\n\n\nI've not had any of the air or leakage problems that have been reported but\ndo get the squeal that Bill describes. I live in Seattle so the wet weather\nmay be a factor.\n\n\nIf I recall correctly I got two keys.\n\n\n\nThis is true. I'm wondering if this may be a safety concern. IE, if people\npound on the place where the airbag lives...\n\n\nNo opinion.\n\n\n\nThe 5 speed is much more fun. We opted for the automatic for a number of\nreasons but it's still fun, and in some ways more practical.\n\n\nDitto.\n\n\nI too would suspect that this may be true.\n\n\n\nYes!\n\n\n\nDitto.\n\n\nAgree. Check it out. I don't mind it but would say that if it was much \nstiffer it might be a problem. (How about the '93 R1 RX-7 for suspension?!) \n\n\nTrue. \n\n\n\nI've had this problem and read about it. (or at least I assume the one\nI had was the one I read about :-). In any case what happened was the\nweld between the muffler and the pipe feeding it (ok, so I'm not a mechanic)\nbroke. In my case the dealer welded it, ordered replacement parts and\nput them on when they got them. I suspect this is some sort of 1) design\nflaw, or 2) production flaw. In any case I have an earlier model and would\nexpect it to be worked out on newer ones. In any case it is a warrantee\nrepair. (or they get the keys back!)\n\n\n\nI second this. There seems to be some things that slipped through but the\ncar seems very sound. While not perfection (what is) you get an awful\nlot for your money.\n\n\nBTW, Bill has a Probe mailing list. You might want to subscribe to it if \nyou are interested in more detail. Try request-ford-probe@world.std.com\n(did I get that right? never can remember if the request goes on the\nfront or the back :-)\n", "\nAnd I lived out there too. It was a nice sleepy farm valley until\nthe Butler family decided to stick up all sorts of really tacky\nHigh RIse office buildings and ruin my view of the sky.\n\nI guess i should have sued somebody :-;", "\n\nThere was a news article a little while ago reporting a type of car (was\nit a Volvo?) was found to stall if you used a certain brand/model of cellular\nphone in it. I seem to remember the car was recalled to fix the problem.", "\nWell, simply put, drinking is irrelavent. Driving drunk is indefensable and\nunforgivable. There is a large differnece.\n\nBut, then, with an attitude like yours, I expect you'll be dead soon. I just\nhope you don't take a human being out with you.", "\n\n\n\n\n\nI've been in two _major_ auto accidents, both were multiple car. The worst\nwas a head-on three car collision (T intersection and one person ran a stop\nsign). In both cases I was stopped and had no place to go (and I saw it\ncoming both times). \n\n\nIf you _really_ want to add safety to _any_ car, simply add a cage to the\ncar. They are available and cheap (about $500 in the USA). Add to that\nfour or five or six point belts and you will walk away from collisions that\nwere otherwise not survivable. but instead of people spending a little\nextra money, we get legislation that says the gov't must mandate a minimal\nlevel of protection for everyone. \n\nOne other significant factor in improving one's own safety is to get some\ntraining. This will improve your safety more than any other single\ninvestment will. Drive/ride defensively (and that does not mean you have\nto be a doddering old stick in the mud). People here tend to enthuse about\nautos more than the average (probably in the top 15th percentile in driving\nability), but still we sometimes overlook the obvious. I've been to two\ndriving schools, and three riding schools for my motorcycle. A very\nworthwhile investment (and besides, it was a lot of fun too ;-). \n\nSafety is what you make of it, just because a carmaker doesn't provide you\nwith an adequate level of protection doesn't mean you have to leave it go at\nthat. \n\n", "\nWell Sweden and Australia, and lord knows wherever else used to drive on\nthe \"wrong\" side of the road, so the export market might have been\nlarger then than just the UK.\n\n\nBy the 1920s, there was a very active \"good roads\" movement, which had\nits origins actually in the 1890s during the bicycle craze, picked up\nsteam in the teens (witness the Linclon Highway Association, 1912 or so,\nand the US highway support act (real name: something different) in 1916\nthat first pledged federal aid to states and counties to build decent\nroads. Also, the experience of widespread use of trucks for domestic\ntransport during WW 1 convinced the government that good raods were\ncrucial to our national defense. Anyway, by the 20s there were plenty\nof good roads, at least around urban areas, and they were rapidly\nexpanding into the countryside. This was the era, after all, of the\nfirst auto touring fad, the motel, the auto camp ground, etc. Two good\nbooks on the subject spring to mind - Warren Belasco \"America on the\nRoad\" (title may not be exact - author is) and another called \"The Devil\nWagon in God's Country\" author I forget. Also, any of John Flink's or\nJohn Bell Rae's auto histories.\n\nAs to placement of the steering wheel being arbitrary, by the early\nteens there were virtually no American cars that did not have the wheel\non the left. In the early days, cars had the wheel on the left, on the\nright, and even in the middle, as well as sometimes having a tiller\ninstead of a wheel. This was standardized fairly early on, though I\ndon't know why.\n\n\nDan\ndh3q@andrew.cmu.edu\nCarnegie Mellon University\nApplied History", "]I'm going to buy a BMW just to cast a vote for Groucho.\n\nI thought you were gonna buy a BMW for its superior power and handling...\n", "\nOf course you are a bunch of arrogant lawyers who know whats best for the \nrest of us. You are doing such a wonderful job with our judicial system,\ngetting all the criminals off, I bow to your superior intellect. Not to\nmention the fees you collect from us poor slobs who get tickets from \nspeeding State Police officers, so you can soak is when we go to court.\nI just love lawyer jokes! Don't you?", "Quoting Jeffrey J. Nucciarone's (nucci@microwave.gsfc.nasa.gov) article \n of 04-06-93, in pertinent part:\n\n JJ> I am considering buying a used '90 Taurus SHO. The car in \n JJ> question has 37k miles. I took it for a test drive the other day\n JJ> and a few questions came up.\n JJ> \n JJ> . . .\n JJ> Second, is there anything I should specifically look for in an \n JJ> SHO of this vintage? Anything I should specifically ask abt? \n JJ> (Brakes, cluthch, etc.) I noticed on the drive the clutch engagemen\n JJ> point seemed a little high; since all my other cars are auto-tragics\n JJ> I'm not sure abt this point. I had my foot firmly planted on the\n JJ> brake when I started it up. There was a bit of a pop in the pedal\n JJ> soon after the engine started. This also occured on a few T-bird SC'\n JJ> I test drove. Was this the ABS self test?\n \nBrake rotors and the clutch are the main things. There has been a clutch \nreplacement program; you might check to see if the car is still eligible, \nas it is a change well worth making. You can also swap the cruddy cable \nshifter for the newer rod shifter, also a change worth making, but that'll \ncost you some $$.\n\nMy brakes usually do one wibble-wobble on startup, so that is probably \nnormal. Didn't know they had a self-test, that's interesting.\n\nWhat kind of tires does the car have on it?\n", "Wrong. I got two points, which were the 100% sample space on the show\nfloor. By the previous quote, I guess I may drow a determinstic line?\nAs unfair as it may seem, the difference between Chrysler and Toyota is\nthat Chrysler needs to prove that it can build quality cars. Toyota can\nafford make a few small mistakes without hurting the image.\n\nAfter all, door seal failing on a 6-year old Stanza is not comparable to \nthe same problem on a brand new Intreprid.", "\n: >Hello DoD'ers et al.,\n\n: >I need some advice on inner tubes in tubeless tyres. \n: > Barry Manor DoD# 620\n\n: Spend the bucks and get a new tire. \n\n: ----===== DoD #8177 = Technician(Dr. Speed) .NOT. Student =====----\n\n\nI second the commend from Dr. Speed, get a new tire. It's like your\nbrakes, something you don't want to take chances with. I waited too long\nto take care of my front tire once and it went flat on me, doing 70 MPH\ngoing down the grapevine towards Bakersfield. At that instance, I would\nof given any amount of money for a new tire. I'm lucky to be here.", ": \n: And thank the Lord that Bill Connor has returned to set\n: us straight! Now I know I can die happy when my Lexus\n: SE400 wipes out on that rain-slick curve in 1997. The\n: rest of you had best straighten up, because your time \n: is even more limited. Most of you are going in the Flu\n: of 1994.\n\nMaddi,\n\nYou know you're glad to have me visit ...\nBut I won't stay long this time, just shopping around.", "Dogs will chase anything that moves. I have two dogs and they love\nchasing me when I ride off. They will also chase any car that passes\n, running along the footpath/sidewalk at up to 60kph. They don't\nseem to go after trucks though, the size difference must be a factor.\n\nIt also works in my favour though, I can exercise them quite easily\nby riding 1/2 mile up the road and back a few times. \n", "Can I resign BMW MOA and get the remainder of my 5-year membership refunded?\n\n", "\nA word of warning, though: Kryptonite also sells almost useless cable\nlocks under the Kryptonite name.\n\nWhen I obtained my second motorcycle, I migrated one of my Kryptonite \nU-locks from my bicycle to the new bike. I then went out shopping for\na new lock for the bicycle.\n\nFor about the same money ($20) I had the choice of a Kryptonite cable lock\n(advantages: lock front and back wheels on bicycle and keep them both,\nKryptonite name) or a cheesy no-name U-lock (advantages: real steel).\nI chose the Kryptonite cable. After less than a week, I took it back in\ndisgust and exchanged it for the cheesy no-name U-lock.\n\nFirst, the Krypto cable I bought is not made by Kryptonite, is not covered by\nthe Kryptonite guarantee, and doesn't even approach Kryptonite standards of\nquality and quality assurance. It is just some generic made-in-Taiwan cable\nlock with the Kryptonite name on it.\n\nSecondly, the latch engagement mechanism is something of a joke. I\ndon't know if mine was a particularly poor example, but it was often\nquite frustrating to get the latch to positively engage, and sometimes\nit would seem to engage, only to fall open when I went to unlock it.\n\nThirdly, the lock has a little plastic door on the keyway which serves\nthe sole purpose of frustrating any attempt to insert the key in the \ndark. I didn't try it (obviously), but I have my doubts that the \nlock mechanism would stand up to an \"insert screwdriver and TORQUE\"\nattack.\n\nFourthly, the cable was not, in my opinion, of sufficient thickness to \ndeter theft (for my piece of crap bicycle, that is). All cables suffer the\nweakness that they can be cut a few strands at a time. If you are patient\nyou can cut cables with fingernail clippers. Aviation snips would go \nthrough the cable in well under a minute.\n\n\n\n-- ", "A friend of mine is cnsidering buying a new car, and is considering the\nSubaru Impreza or the Nissan Altima right now. Which of these two cars\nwould you recommend. We definately want an airbag and ABS, and room for\ntall people and long legs.\n\nIf you have other suggestions for cars under $13K after dealing I'd be\ninterested\nin you opinions as well.\n\nPLEASE send replies to sem1@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu, no tthis address.", "I just read articals on this in Road and Track and Car and Driver\n\t(Is that one mag or two? =B^), and I was wondering if people out\n\tthere have any opinions that differed from what these mags have to\n\tsay...\n\n\n\tI'm looking at the following three SUV's; anyone who's driven all\n\tthree have any strong opinions?\n\n\n\tFord Explorer\n\tToyota 4Runner\n\tNissan Pathfinder\n\n\n\tCurrently I'm leaning toward the Toyota, 'cause I've had big success\n\twith Toyota trucks in the past, and 'cause I think it's the best\n\tlooking of the three. But I thought I'd see if anyone has any strong \n\topinions....\n\n\n\n\t\t\tThanks!\n\n\n\t-Karl\n", ": \n: >I bought it, I tried it:\n: \n: >It is, truly, the miracle spooge.\n: \n: >My chain is lubed, my wheel is clean, after 1000km.\n: \n: Good, glad to hear it, I'm still studying it.\n: \n: >I think life is now complete...The shaft drive weenies now\n: >have no comeback when I discuss shaft effect.\n: \n: Sure I do, even though I don't consider myself a weenie... \n\n---------------- rip! pithy \"I'm afraid to work on my bike\" stuff deleted ---\n\n: There is also damn little if any shaft effect\n: with a Concours. So there! :{P PPPpppphhhhhttttttt!!!\n: \nHeh, heh...that's pretty funny. So what do you call it instead of shaft\neffect?\n\n\nNathaniel\nZX-10 <--- damn little if any shaft effect\nDoD 0812\nAMA", "Hi:\n\nI am looking for tires. I would like to hear your experience on the \nBF Goodrich Radial T/A tires and/or the Touring T/A especially for\nsize P185/70R13.\n\nFor Radial T/A: How do they do in SNOW, and WET weather? Are they quiet tires?\n\nFor Touring T/A: How many miles can they last? I believe they are in\n every way equal/better than Radial T/A. Am I right?", "\n\nI've had, and still have a few aluminum sticks. I got my first when I was 15\n(a Christian), and broke the shaft halfway through the season, two years \nlater. I bought another (a Canadian) at the beginning of the next season, \nand I still have it. I also have an Easton, that a friend was getting rid \noff, after giving up the game. I find that Easton blades are easier to get, \nbut all brands of blades are pretty well interchangeable. Watch out for \ndried up bits of firewood, that some stores pass off as blades. In my \nexperiences, the blades of an aluminum break more often than regular sticks, \nbut I've only ever broken one aluminum shaft.\n\nI like aluminum sticks. The blades are quickly changed, even on the bench \nif you have to. On the downside, the shaft won't break if you decide to \nimpale yourself on it :-)\n\nCiao,\nMark S.", "In the EC, the Corrado VR6 is rated as 'best handling car this side of a \n968'. As it goes, I just read an article in 'Autocar & Motor' comparing the \nVR6 to a Ford Probe (later to be launched in the UK).... The VR6 is more powerful (even more so coz its 2.9 instead of 2.8 in the EC) and more fun to drive\netc etc... but the Probe has a slightly smoother engine (thanx Mazda MX6!)...", "+>[My problem] turned out to be a screw unscrewed inside my Mikuni HS40 \n+>carb. I keep hearing that one should keep all of the screws\n+>tight on a bike, but I never thought that I had to do that\n+>on the screws inside of a carb. At least it was roadside\n+>fixable and I was on my way in hardly any time.\n+\n+Gee, I always figured that it was the loose screws on/in the _rider_\n+that were most likely to cause any problems. Did you check for that\n+at the same time?\n\nThat is very true. However, screws have been loose on this rider\nfor quite some time, so they had been taken into account.\n____________________________________________________________________________\n\t\tRussian Roulette is fun 5 out of 6 times", "\nI am the original owner of the seats and the original poster. \nI take VERY serious offence in your statement. \nI see a lot of computers advertized on the net, and my friend just had been\nreleived of his machine = all the net-computer ads are for stolen computers?\nWhere did you learn logic?\n\nAs for the seats, they were replaced by a much harder (literally) Celica GTS\nseats due to my back problem. That is why I had to reuse the MR2 brackets\nand that's why the MR2 seats I sell are attached to Celica brackets.", "Hi netters,\n\nMy friend is seriously thinking of getting the Subaru SVX. There is\na local dealer here in Seattle selling them for $22600, with\nTouring package, that's $7400 off from MSRP. He thinks it's a \nvery good deal (and I think so too). Since he knows I have access to\nthe net, he would like to get anyone's opinion about this car, especially\nin the area of reliability and maintenanability.\nPlease send e-mail to me as my friend doesn't have access to the net.\n\nMy opinion about this car is, you get a lot for $22600:\nauto everything (tranny, climate control, windows, locks, folddow rear seet),\nfull wheel drive, 2+2, fast (143 top spped), heavy (3580lb);-)\n\nThanks in advacne!", "According to BBC Radio this morning, UK, Denmark, Portugal & a few\nothers have vetoed a proposal to limit EC-sold bikes to 100 BHP. The\nreason is that such a limit is not supported by accident statistics - a\nrare example of governmental wisdom. The limit has a five year\nmoratorium on it, and \"specialist\" manufacturers will be exempt anyway. \nAny suspicion that this is a crafty trick to restrict that end of the\nmarket in Europe to Triumph, Norton (who? :-)), BMW, Cagiva & Ducati is\nthe sort of dangerous rubbish which stalls GATT talks.\n\nYou heard it here first.", "1985.5 Porsche 944\n\n - Turbo trim (spoilers)\n - graphite black\n - all around excellent condition\n - removable factory sunroof\n - leather interior\n - new A/C\n - new timing belt\n - bra\n - 90k miles\n\n$9900 OBO\n\n- Patrick\n", "Cup holders (driving is an importantant enough undertaking)\nCellular phones and mobile fax machines (see above)\nVanity mirrors on the driver's side.\nAshtrays (smokers seem to think it's just fine to use the road)\nFake convertible roofs and vinyl roofs.\nAny gold trim.\n", "I have a few questions about the TAX on a used car purchase.\nI live in New York State, and I am going to buy a used car.\nI know that I will have to pay tax when I go to register the car.\nBut I would like to know of tax is payed on the book value of the car, or\non the purchase price. Also, what tax rate is used ? The owner lives in\nAlbany (8% tax), and I will be living in Saratoga with 7% tax. \nDo I pay Albany tax or Saratoga tax ? (the difference is a whole $50)\nOne more thing, how much does it cost for the usual 2 year registration ?\n\nDid I leave anything out ? What else might I have to know to purchase and\nregister a used car ? (I've never done this before.)", "(message posted by/for roomate)\n\nBike is in good condition, is black, has 23000 miles, mag wheels, \n\nfront disk, rear drum, good front tire, new back tire, o-ring chain,\n\nnew battery, new starter and has that laid back look. Bike runs\n\nreal strong with all four carbs giving their best. Buyer gets a \n\ncover (all weather, lockable & heatproof), tank bag (non-magnetic - \n\ncan't take disks along otherwise!), cargo net & manual. Bike has\n\norigional tool kit & matching Yamaha lock.\n\n\n\nAsking $1700 or Best Offer. I would like to sell this soon, so please\n\nCALL (voice!)(ack!) with any questions!", "Hi everybody,\n\n I will buy a Honda Civic EX Coupe. The dealer ask $12,750 for it,\nincluding A/C ( installed ), but not including stereo, tax, registration\nfees. I live in Mexico, so I don't have time to go to a lot of dealers\nand compare their prices. The dealer is in McAllen, Tx. Is this a good\nprice for that car ? If not, how much should I pay for it ?\n\n Please e-mail ASAP if you don't want to post. Thanks a lot.\n\n Orlando Pugliese\n opuglies@mtecv2.mty.itesm.mx\n\n", "\n\n \nSame engine, different state of tune (less hp and maybe more torque). My\nfriend at work regularly takes 6 people in his and it seems to haul around\njust fine.", "\nYeah, I'm sure that our lab would love a ride (he's the type that sticks his\nhead out car windows) but I didn't think that he would enjoy being bungee-\ncorded to the gas tank, and 65 lbs or squirming beast is a bit much for a\nbackpack (ok who's done it....).", "\n\n\nIncluding all the ones who think that they countersteer all the way\nthrough a corner??\n\n\nAgreed!\n\n\nThis is really the only thing we disagree on. Maybe we should agree to\ndisagree?? I still think that telling newbies to steer left to turn\nto the right is unnecessarily confusing, when they'll do it anyway if they\njust get on the bike and ride the damn thing.\n\n\n\n\nMe too!!\n\n:-)\n\n\n\n\nJeez, Ed, when you started talking about traction management policies I\nthought you were making some weird reference to looking after railway\nlocomotives...\n\nThe official line here (though I do have my doubts about it) is that the\nfront brake is applied first, followed by the rear brake, the idea being\nthat you avoid locking up the rear after weight transfer takes place. In\npractice I suspect most people do what you describe.\n\n\nIf you don't slide the tyre, you have no way of knowing whether you've\nachieved maximum braking or not. I'm not suggesting that you should always\naim to brake as hard as you possibly can - but if you want to find the\nlimits of the machine, you have to go beyond them. ", "\nGood point, I'd overlooked that. The Eclipse has a 3 point mount, 1 at\nthe rear and 2 at the front, and it's very stable on the FJ. I have seen\nsome with harnesses that mount to the sides of the tank, and that would\nbe a real problem on the FJ.", "\nActually the company, and the product was ROVAC - which stood for\nROTary Air Conditioning..it used a rotary compressor with what\nwas effectively an air/air heat exchanger, and worked pretty well.\nThe negatives were mostly that it was about 5-10% less efficient than\nusing freon, and noise problems from the high velocity/pressure air,\nall of which were solved by the time the company went bankrupt. It\nis still a legal entity in Florida, but I believe completely \"dead\"..\nand there's a heck of an opurtunity to buy up it's patents and restart\nthe operation...\n\n", " >Does anyone know how to size cold gas roll control thruster tanks\n >for sounding rockets?\n\n Well, first you work out how much cold gas you need, then make the\n tanks big enough.\n\nOur sounding rocket payload, with telemetry, guidance, etc. etc. and a\ntelescope cluster, weighs around 1100 pounds. It uses freon jets for\nsteering and a pulse-width-modulated controller for alignment (ie\nduring our eight minutes in space, the jets are pretty much\ncontinuously firing on a ~10% duty cycle or so...). The jets also\nneed to kill residual angular momentum from the spin stabilization, and\nflip the payload around to look at the Sun.\n\nWe have two freon tanks, each holding ~5 liters of freon (I'm speaking\nonly from memory of the last flight). The ground crew at WSMR choose how\nmuch freon to use based on some black-magic algorithm. They have\nextra tank modules that just bolt into the payload stack.\n\nThis should give you an idea of the order of magnitude for cold gas \nquantity. If you really need to know, send me email and I'll try to get you\nin touch with our ground crew people.\n\nCheers,\nCraig\n", "\nIn a word, yes.\n\n1989 Bonnevilles prices (avg. retail):", "rites:\nsomething near the suburbs, people do at least glance over. Remember, an\nalarm is only a deterent, not a prevention. If a thief sees two cars he\n\"likes\", one has an alarm and the other doesn't, he's obviously going to skip\nthe alarmed car and avoid the hassle. There is a way around every alarm, but\nat least you've got SOMETHING on your side.....\n Rob Fusi\n rwf2@lehigh.edu", "\n\nnice theory. too bad the MR2's never came with a four cylinder over 2.0\nliters. More like 1.6. Or did they? were the nonturbo MR2II's 2.2 or\nsome such?\n\nI also understand that anyone using balancing shafts on four cylinders, must\npay SAAB a royalty for using their patented design..like Porsche's 3.0 I4...", "Hey all,\n\n\nI'm looking at buying a new car, but I'm confused about the insurance\ncoverage. This also applies to my existing car insurance policy. Does\nanyone understand what the \"Limited Tort Option\" means. Will it lower\nmy rates if I opt to have it, or will it be more expensive if I opt\nto have it? What does it do for me (in layman's terms please)? Is\nit a good deal or should I ignore it? I'm not the type to sue anyone\nat a drop of the hat nor am I the type to report every little ding to\nthe insurance company as a vandalism claim. Please help.\n\n\n\nThanks in advance.\n", "Can taking the car to a car wash hurt the car's finish?\n\nAnd if so, is it better to hand wash it about once a month, or just take it \nto the car wash anyway?\n\nAre detailing places worth the money? if i do a good, careful job on washing\nand waxing, is a detail place going to be worth it?\n\nreply to my email address: pfk1@crux1.cit.cornell.edu\n\npk4", "\n\"Teflon\" is a DuPont-owned tradename for PTFE. Slick-50 does\nindeed use DuPont Teflon, though some other brands of such\nstuff may use imported PTFE of another brand.\n\n\"Teflon\", being a trade-name, should always by capitalized.\n\n(DuPont disclaims any benefits of PTFE in the oil supply of internal \ncombustion engines, BTW.)", ": Ford and his automobile. I need information on whether Ford is\n: partially responsible for all of the car accidents and the depletion of\n: the ozone layer. Also, any other additional information will be greatly\n: appreciated. Thanks. \n: \nSSSSSoooooooooooo!!!!! Its all HIS fault!! Thank God Louis Chevrolet is \ninnocent! and that guy Diesel, HE otto feel guilty!\n\n", "\nWe're NOT???! Hell, I was wondering why there was all the pointless woffle \nabout motorcycles. ", "\n\nIf this is the same as adjusting the shims between cam and valve, I have\nthe same question. Do you buy a FULL set of shims before starting the\nadjustment process, or do you calculate the shims you need and then run\noff to the dealer in the cage to see if the right shims are in stock? \nObviously the latter would be cheaper (what do shims cost?), but are\nmeasurements of the shim need reliable enough to buy only the indicated shims?\n\nChris", "\nBefore we get into another discussion on the relative merits of a car alarm,\nlet's go on the assumption that one is desired. The question then remains,\nwhich one? I've owned a Hornet, and was satisfied, but not enough to get\nanother for my new car. The Alpine has been highly recommended, but what about\nClifford and VSE's Derringer 2? Any others? I want all of the standard stuff;\ndoor lock interface, starter kill, light flash, LED, valet mode, passive/active,\nshock/motion sensor, etc... Thanks for the advice!\n\n", "Hey, the Lone Biker of the Apocalypse (see Raising Arizona) had flames coming\nout of both his exhaust pipes. I love to toggle the kill switch on my Sportster\nto produce flaming backfires, especially underneath overpasses at night (it's\nloud and lights up the whole underpass!!!", "\n [riveting BMWMOA election soap-opera details deleted]\n\n\nI'm going to buy a BMW just to cast a vote for Groucho.\n\nRide safe,\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------", "\nThe father of a friend of mine is a police officer in West Virginia. Not \nonly is his word as a skilled observer good in court, but his skill as an \nobserver has been tested to be more accurate than the radar gun in some \ncases . . .. No foolin! He can guess a car's speed to within 2-3mph just \nby watching it blow by - whether he's standing still or moving too! (Yes, \nI realize that calibrated guns are more accurate than this, but . . .). \nHis ability is not that uncommon among people who watch moving things for a \nliving, I have heard . . ..\n\nSo what good is a radar detector except to give you a split second warning \nthat the guy who just cut you off to pass the guy ahead and to your left \nis about to panic stop from 85 on a crowded freeway???", "I have a line on a Ducati 900GTS 1978 model with 17k on the clock. Runs\nvery well, paint is the bronze/brown/orange faded out, leaks a bit of oil\nand pops out of 1st with hard accel. The shop will fix trans and oil \nleak. They sold the bike to the 1 and only owner. They want $3495, and\nI am thinking more like $3K. Any opinions out there? Please email me.\nThanks. It would be a nice stable mate to the Beemer. Then I'll get\na jap bike and call myself Axis Motors!\n\n-- \n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\"Tuba\" (Irwin) \"I honk therefore I am\" CompuTrac-Richardson,Tx\nirwin@cmptrc.lonestar.org DoD #0826 (R75/6)", ": no rear tires as small as 110/90. There are some fronts though.\n\n\tSo get a 120/90 instead. Is there anything that size? \n\n: Any other recomendations?\n: \n\tCall the tire companies yourself and tell them what you have. \nThey can make recomendations for you. That's your best bet. Check a biker\nmagazine (Cycle World etc) for phone numbers. \nIt's possible there are no other tires available though. \n\n ==============================================================================\n Erik Astrup AFM #422 DoD #683 \n\n 1993 CBR 900RR * 1990 CBR 600 * 1990 Concours * 1989 Ninja 250 ", "s:\n I have a 1991 Toyota Camry Deluxe for sale...\n 70K miles, power everything, grey, 3 years newer than above for $10K.\n All highway miles. Excellent condition...\n Rob Fusi\n rwf2@lehigh.edu\n New Jersey\n 609-397-2147\n ask for Bob Fusi", "\n\n\tI'm thinking about becoming a bike owner this year\nw/o any bike experience thus far. I figure that getting a \ndecent used bike for under $1K the thing would pay for itself\nwhile I'm at grad school (car permits are $$$ where I'm going\nand who want's to ride a bus). I'm looking for advice\non a first bike - best models/years. I'm NOT looking for\nan old loud roaring thing that sounds like a monster. The\nquit whirring of newer engines is more to my liking.\n\nApprec any advice.\n\nThanks,", "\n\nThe down side is that when I'm in my cage, I have on numerous occasions\nslammed my hand into the rolled up window in an effort to wave at\na passing biker. Ow.\n", "\nA Sea Doo is a boat. It turns by changing the angle of the duct behind the\npropeller. A waterski bike looks like a motorcycle but has a ski where each\nwheel should be. Its handlebars are connected through a familiar looking\nsteering head to the front ski. It handles like a motorcycle.", "s:\n\n\nAhhh yes, Andrew, we meet again...\n\n...no, not 'stealing' the oil, just draining it as to leave me stranded.\n\n\nLet me guess, you're from Hudson Ohio??\n\n\nGet out and see the world.\n\n\n\"IF\" I were the vandal, and I really hated someone, maybe someone who knew\nsomething about cars, of course I would look for ANY types of valves I could\nundo. Especially, special oil drain plugs, and radiator petcocks.\n\nAs well as putting bad things in the gas...\n\nWhile I would never vandalize someone's car, IF I were to, it would probably\nbe the 'time bomb' approach, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks\nthat way...\n", "JS>From: Stafford@Vax2.Winona.MSUS.Edu (John Stafford)\n\nJS>In article <1pppnrINNitg@cronkite.Central.Sun.COM>,\nJS>>\nJS>> How about a decal of thicker vinyl?\n\nJS> How about a Geeky temporary tatoo? I mean, why should the\nJS> RUBs be exempt from a little razzing.\n\nThat's sick! I want!\n\nYou make 'em up, I promise to order. I wannabe Badtothebone!\n\nThe cheesy \"Live to Ride\" eagles are sitting on my shelf, waiting for\nthe big ride down the coast. (It now looks like we may hit points\nfarther south than expected. How do I get in contact with Bay Area\nDenizens? Replies to address below. Me n' Charlie will be along in early\nor mid May.)\n\nSeriously. I like the idea of temporary Geekys (Geekies? Geekae?\nGeekii?). It fits the whole DoD image: it sounds bad, but it's really\nworse.\n\nRyan Cousinetc.|1982 Yamaha Vision XZ550 -Black Pig of Inverness|Live to Ride\nKotRB |1958 AJS 500 C/S -King Rat |to Work to\nDoD# 0863 |I'd be a squid if I could afford the bike... |Flame to\nryan.cousineau@compdyn.questor.org | Vancouver, BC, Canada |Live . . .\n\n\n\n\nJS>====================================================\nJS>John Stafford Minnesota State University @ Winona\nJS> All standard disclaimers apply.\n\n * SLMR 2.1a * If Lucas built weapons, wars wouldn't start, either.\n ", "I wanted to let people know that this motorcycle has been sold.\n\nThanks for your inquiries.", "xIn article <1qgi8eINNhs5@skeena.ucs.ubc.ca> yiklam@unixg.ubc.ca (Yik Chong Lam)\nx>Hello,\nx>\nx> Does anyone know how to take out the bolt under the engine\nx>compartment? Should I turn clockwise or counter? I tried any kind\nx>of lubricants, WD-40,etc, but I still failed!\nx> Do you think I can use a electric drill( change to a suitable\nx>bit ) to turn it out? If I can succeed, can I re-tighten it not too\nx>tight, is it safe without oil leak?\nx\nxAssuming you don't have a Russian car with opposite threads, then\nxyou turn counterclockwise. I would get some professional\nxhelp here, you may not have located the draing plug and\nxactually be trying to loosen something else.\nx\nxCraig\nx>\nx>\nx>Thank you very much in advance------ Winson\nx>\n This reminds me of the first time my cousin did an oil change on his\ncar. He crawled under, removed a bolt, drained the fluid, replaced the\nbolt, then carefully poured in 5 quarts of oil. Didn't bother to\ncheck the dip stick, just drove off. Didn't get too far till me found\nout that he'd drained the 4-speed trans and dumped an extra 5 quarts\ninto the engine.:( MORAL: As Craig said don't be ashamed to get some\n*in person* help the first time.\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\nMack Costello Code 65.1 (formerly 1720.1)\nDavid Taylor Model Basin, Carderock Division Hq. NSWC ___/-\\____\nBethesda, MD 20084-5000 Phone (301) 227-2431 (__________>|", "\nThe prob is that you're wrong.\nNewbie here.\nI just got off the phone with a salesman\nthat showed by newbieness.\n\nIf I remember what he said correctly:\nGSXR250 - no such thing\nCBR250 - NO. Its CB250.\nFZR250 - no such thing.\n\nMost sport bikes don't have 250 versions.\n", "\nHas anyone, while driving a cage, ever waved at bikers? I get the urge,\nbut I've never actually done it.\n\nI've bike like | Jody Levine DoD #275 kV\n got a you can if you -PF | Jody.P.Levine@hydro.on.ca\n ride it | Toronto, Ontario, Canada", "\nYou're obviously not referring to any of the three above-quoted\nindividuals, because barnacles don't each send $20 to the crew of the\nship to keep it moving.\n\n\"Get the organization to act on it\" is easy to say, but says little\nabout what one really can and should do. What the organization\nactually will do is largely determined by the president and directors,\nas far as I can see. That's what makes it so important to vote in an\nelection of officers.\n\nIt does strike me that the BMWMOA is a lot less politically active (in\nthe state and national arenas, not infighting) than other M/C\norganizations. Should we change this? Or just join the other groups\nthat already are in politics?\n\n(Incidentally, the political hazards to motorcycle riders in the US at\nthe moment don't compare to the problems of some other groups like gun\nowners. Just try to take up target pistol shooting in the Northeast\nor California, and I bet you'll wish you only had to worry about\nwearing a helmet. (Why does every thread on rec.moto eventually come\naround to guns?))", "\nI had a '82 Saab 900 Turbo, and now have a '87 BMW 325is\n\nThere is no comparison for handling, reliability, or overall quality of\nengineering. The BMW wins hands down. After 5 years I was sick and tired\nof the all the little problems and entropic decay of the SAAB. The 6-year\nold BMW is still as sweet as it was new.\n\nBut I see you are posting from western MA. BMW's **SUCK** in the snow.\nI have aggressive snows, plus a hundred pounds of sand in the back, and I\nstill try to avoid driving in the snow. I happily took the SAAB through\nblizzard conditions without a worry. I would say this is the single design\nflaw in the BMW.\n ", "I.D. Benham, on the Wed, 21 Apr 1993 17:11:39 GMT wibbled:\n: Hi,\n: I'm now in the market for buying a BMW.The ideal would be an R80 RS but I'd be\n: interested to here of any R80 for sale .Age is not a problem - I'm more\n: interested in a good example without a massive amount of miles and one which has\n: been well maintained as I intend to keep it well and for some time.\n\n: I would also like to know if anyone has any sound advice as regards to\n: INSURANCE - 27yr old,licence for 9 years,no accidents/claims/convictions.Am I old\n: enough to get BMW owners club insurance yet or will I have to wait until next\n: year? \n\n: \t\t\t\tIan\n\n: \t\t\tFuture Beemer Owner\n\n\nMy best advice would be to contact a local dealer (see the yellow\npages under \"Motorcycle Dealers\") and ask for the address of the local\nsection BMW Owners Club. The local BMW dealer will give you details\nof the BMW Insurance terms and the club will help you with all\ndetails. Getting a bike from the dealer is the best bet, if you can\nafford it. The warranty is fairly handy as BM bits are made from\nsolid gold, apart from the parts made from ruby and platinum. Apparently.\n\n--\n\nNick (the perpetually broke BMW Biker) DoD 1069 Concise Oxford No Loot\n\nM'Lud.", "\n\none i saw had vented rears too...it was on a lot.\nof course, the sales man was a fool...\"titanium wheels\"..yeah, right..\nthen later told me they were \"magnesium\"..more believable, but still\ncrap, since Al is so m uch cheaper, and just as good....\n\n\ni tend to agree, tho that this still doesn't take the SHO up to \"standard\"\nfor running 130 on a regular basis. The brakes should be bigger, like\n11\" or so...take a look at the ones on the Corrados.(where they have\nbraking regulations).", "\nThey tried their best not to show it, believe me. I'm surprised they\ncouldn't find a sprint car race (mini cars through pigpens, indeed!)\non short notice.\n\nGeorge", "\n\n\nThese substitutes exist, and at this time are available. Its the future\navailability that is in doubt.\n\n1) GHG-12\n\nGet it from People's Welding Supply 800-382-9006\n\n\n2) butane/propane \n\nYou can mix this yourself so no one can ever regulate it away.\nJust make sure you use good quality (dry) gases.\n\n\nI don't know of any 200mpg carb distributors :-)", "After failing my State of New Hampshire Noise Gestapo test with my HD\nSlash cut pipes I installed my new Bubs (which I had been planning to\ndo anyway), went to a different in spection station, and passed with no\nproblem at about 97 dB.\n\nTwo points:\n\nFirst, I don't think the first dude did the noise test correctly. \nHolding the meter close to his body probably caused a high reading, and\ndoing it inside the garage with the door closed undoubtedly enhanced\nthe dB level! So if any other NH riders need to get this done, make\nsure the inspection is done outdoors with the meter held well away from\nthe body.\n\nSecond, these Bub pipes are bloody terrific. At low revs or cruising\nthrough town, they as quiet as the stock pipes, but have a sound thats\na more throaty, purring, rumble. When you open her up to >3000 RPM\nthey emit a wonderfully satisfying rumbling roar. Best of both worlds!", "Mediterranean Investment property for Sale\n------------------------------------------\nJavea, Alicante Spain (Costa Blanca)\n\nVilla on a large lot in the wooded (pine) hills \"above the noise\".\n2 bedrooms, living-dining room + glassed-in sun-porch; kitchen &\nbathroom. Large lot surrounded by traditional white wall with\nwrought iron gates: room for an in-ground pool. 2 minutes from the\nsea and supermarket; 10 minutes from town and full amenities. Area\nhas specially favourable microclimate, mentioned in a WHO climate\nreport.\n\nSeat (Fiat) runabout Car, 3 years old may be included, in the deal.\n\nIdeal for retirement or as a family holiday resort.\n\nMust sell for family reasons.\n\nAsking $150,000.\n\nReply by EMAIL or call Canada (613)591-0507\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\nSimon Curry, Executive Director Tele: (613)991-9001\nThe Royal Society of Canada Fax: (613)991-6996\nPO Box 9734, Ottawa K1G 5J4 Email: curry@doe.carleton.ca\n\n--", "So how do I steer when my hands aren't on the bars? (Open Budweiser in left \nhand, Camel cigarette in the right, no feet allowed.) If I lean, and the \nbike turns, am I countersteering? Is countersteering like benchracing only \nwith a taller seat, so your feet aren't on the floor?", "\n\tHow 'bout \"Big Faus and Little Halsey\" with Robert\n\tRedford and that little guy that was in Bonnie & Clyde.\n\n\tGood flick, IMHO.\n\n\t\t\t\tMichael", "If all of these things have been detected in space, has anyone\nlooked into possible problems with the detectors?\n\nThat is, is there some mechanism (cosmic rays, whatever) that\ncould cause the dector to _think_ it was seeing one of these\nthings?", "\n\nOn my LC (RZ to any ex-colonists) I replaced the bolt at the bottom of the barrel\nwith a tap. When I wanted a coffee I could just rev the engine until boiling\nand pour out a cup of hot water.\nI used ethylene glycol as antifreeze rather than methanol as it tastes sweeter.\n\n(-:", "I'm selling an assortment of goods!!\nThey're all in excellent shape (the amp and detector were\nrarely used).\n\nThule rack with locks for VW GTI or Jetta (2yrs)........ $75\nSilca floor bike pump (pink) ........................... 20\nUniden Radar Detector (X and K bands, orig $134) ....... 75\nBlaupunkt 60W car amp (orig $150) ...................... 75\n\n\nShipping included in all prices. Interested?\nPlease respond by email (whsld login or sldenton@cbnewsj.cb.att.com)\nor phone (201) 386-2949 office.", "\n\n\nflat = 180 deg V = horizonatlly opposed\n\nUsually, it also equals \"boxer,\" however, I think the term is\ntraditionally reserved for 8's and 12's (and firing order matters).\nThis was talked about here in r.a many months back; I can't remember\nthe consensus.\n\nExamples:\n\nFerrari's 512TR is a flat 12 boxer.\nPorsche's 911 is a flat 6.\nSubaru's Impreza is a flat 4.\n\nRegards,\n\nBrian\n\nbqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\nI am the engineer, I can choose K.", "\n\nInteresting discussion.\n\nI limit myself to *one* 'standard serving' of alcohol if I'm\ngoing to ride. And mostly, unless the alcohol is something\nspecial (fine ale, good wine, or someone else's vsop), I usually\njust don't drink *any*.\n\nBut then alcohol just isn't really important to me, mainly\nfor financial reasons...\n\nAt least one of the magazines claims to follow the\naviation guideline of \"no alcohol whatsoever\" within\n24hrs of riding a 'company' bike.\n\nDon't remember which mag though, it was a few years ago.\n\nRegards, Charles (hicc.)\nDoD:0.001\nRZ350", " \nNot to mention my friend's '54 Citroen Traction Avant with the light switch and \ndimmer integrated in a single stalk off the steering column! Those dumb French\nwere apparently copying the Japanese before the Germans! :^)", "out-\nhave\nair,\nhahaha ... my sentiments exactly. \n", "\n\tDo I have to be the one to say it?\n\n\tDON'T BE SO STUPID AS TO LEAVE YOUR HELMET ON THE SEAT WHERE IT CAN\n\tFALL DOWN AND GO BOOM!\n\n\tThat kind of fall is what the helmet is designed to protect against.\nIf you fall with the helmet on and you hit the same spot the helmet landed\non during the drop, the helmet may not protect your head as well as it was\nintended to do. Conservative rec.moto'ers will recommend that you replace\nthe helmet. If you want to be sure that it will protect you adequately, you\nshould.\n\n\tHELMETS GO ON THE GROUND, ON A TABLE, ON A CHAIR, ON A SHELF, OR ON\n\tANY OTHER SURFACE THAT IS LARGE ENOUGH TO SUPPORT THEM SO THAT THEY\n\tWILL NOT EASILY BE KNOCKED DOWN.\n\n\tJeezus. My new Shoei would be $340 to replace. You think I'm going\nto leave it to chance?\n\n\tCripe.\n\nLater,", "I looked at that Bimmer yesterday. It's an '81, has about 90kmi, according\nto owner (odometer stopped working at 68Kmi). Drivess well, sounds good,\nbody is OK, he wants $3000.\ni liked the car, despite it's auto tranny, but my wife will be a primary\ndriver on this one, and she wants auto.\nThe radio does not work untill the car warms up and you honk the horn (!)\nThe A/C seems to have a leak. \nThe sunroof is sticky, but operational.\nOdometer does not work, as mentioned before.\nIdle is a bit bouncy, going from 900rpm to 1200rpm.\nWipers are slow.\nThat's teh gripes. The owner says that he changed radiator, alternator, \nrotors and calipers, exhaust.\nThe biggest problem, is that the owner is a shifty SOB, telling strange\nstories. I hate that. I would never buy from a persom like that, except, how\noften you see a descent 528i for that amount of money. He also said that,\nalthough I could bring a mechanicin, he wouldn't let me check the car by taking \nit to a garage. Suspicious. And who knows what milage is on it.\nSo, let me know what to check for, given there's practically no rust.\nI know there was an article on 528i in R&D a few years back, anybody remembers\nwhat issue?\nMike.S\n", "\nBad driving habits can damage a car in a couple of months, not 6 years.\n\nIf that were not the case, everyone would be driving fleet rental re-solds...\n\nAnd while you are considering things (factors in stat terms), how about\ncity vs. highway driving ratios, owner vs. dealer service, extreme weather\nor environment, adherence (sp?) to maintenance schedules, whether the car\nhas ever been in an accident, number of different drivers of the same car\nin a family, whether the car is garaged, warmed up, ...\n\nSpiros", "\"Silver Dream Racer\" -- Frustrated Brit club racer's buddy dies,\nleaving him a built-in-garage \"revolutionary, experimental\" 500 GP bike.\nBrit club racer uses machine to beat Bad American on Bad Japanese\nFactory Bike at British GP. Filmed at Silverstone, I believe. Pretty\nbad.\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------", "While driving through the middle of nowhere, I picked up KNBR, AM 1070,\na clear-channel station based in Los Angeles. They had an ad \nclaiming that they were able to get traffic flow information from \nall of the thousands of traffic sensors that CalTrans has placed\nunder the pavement. Does CalTrans sell this info? Does KNBR have\nan exclusive? What's the deal?", "Around here, even mentioning the DoD without a number in your .sig\ncan get you soundly FAQed. Notice, however, that I myself did\nnot FAQ the careful monk. He was, after all, waiting to press return.\n\n\nJack Waters II\nDoD#1919", "My girlfriend switched to gas-permeable hard lenses and no longer\nneeds a one year old soft contact lens cleaning unit. It's one of\nthose where you pop in the lens case filled with solution and the\nlenses, press the lighted timer button and let it cook. No stains\n(of course -- if you've owned one of these, you understand), maybe\na little dust on the cover.\n\nBest cash offer, or equivalent worth in used CD's or Betamax tapes\n(some blanks or a couple of pre-recorded movies/concerts).\n\ngld", "\nThere is a known problem with the seals on the taillights of <93 probes.\nComplain loudly to your dealer and get them to install new seals. It is\na known problem, present on most (if not all) pre-93 Probes, so you \nshouldn't have to pay them to fix it. In my case, they fixed it on\nmy extended warranty (I just had to pay a $50 deductable) (the\nwork was valued at something like $185 with labor and parts). Having\nremoved the tail lamps myself on other occasions, I think their estimate\nwas fair.\n\n", "I agree with Jeff's reply. I've never changed the brake fluid except when\nhaving a brake job, which is usually at around 80,000 miles (alot of\nfreeway driving). However, I will start to do this as preventative\nmaintenance on my new car. Also, there are brake system flushing agents\nthat can be used but the problem is that if any of the agent is left in the\nsystem, it can cause problems, so it's been recommended NOT to use them unless\nyou are 100% certain that you can remove all of the flushing agent. Just for\nyour info, I was quoted a price of: labor=$29.95 and fluid=$9.95 for\nflushing the brake system; this in conjunction with a break job so I don't\nknow if it was more without the brake job. This is in the S.F Bay Area.\n", "Hi. I have been thinking about buying a Motorcycle or a while now and I have\nsome questions:\n\n-Is there a buying guide for new/used motorcycles (that lists reliability, how\nto go about the buying process, what to look for, etc...)?\n-Is there a pricing guide for new/used motorcycles (Blue Book)?\n\nAlso\n-Are there any books/articles on riding cross country, motorcycle camping, etc?\n-Is there an idiots' guide to motorcycles?\n\nANY related information is helpful. Please respond directly to me.\n\nThanks a lot.\n-Jordan\n\nMe also.\n\t\t\t\t\tThanks,", "\nThat's absurd! That statement must therefore say that any argument in favor\nof seatbelts or airbags is an argument against automobiles. Any argument\nfor lifeguards is an argument against swimming. It says that any agrgument\nin favor of safety precautions is an argument for banning the activity to \nwhich the precautions apply. Extrapolating to that degree is ridiculous,\nthere wouldn't be any normal human activity left to do; therefore it is\na non-seqitur.\n\nAlso, even though most people do not ride motorcycles, they do boat, sail,\njetski, climb, ski, fly parachute, hang-glide, glide, bungee-jump, bike,\nskate, rollerblade, skateboard, play rugby (ouch), mow the lawn, rewire\nthe basement, operate heavy machinery, and do a host of other 'dangerous'\nthings that would all be as valid as motorcycling as activities to ban.\nYour little homily applies to all those things, and the general public\nbuying into banning motorcycles without realizing that their activity\nwould be next is unlikely.\n", "Just a quick note on the nwe shape MR2s in the UK.... \n\nWhen they first came out here, there were 3 models. The base model had an \nauto box and engine from the CAMRY 2.0 !!! Well I recentyl found out that this \nmodel is no longer profitable for Toyota and have since scraped it. I've also\nnoticed that auto MR2s have depreciated a lot more than the next model up...", "What about GREASE II?????\n\n\tArun.\n\tCool Rider.\n", "\nNow, while I wouldn't recommend doing this while moving,\n\n(Maybe Mike Beaverton can complain to you awhile! :/ )\n\nyou might not want to countersteer if you're just sitting\nin the driveway...\n\n\n\n", ": Unless... some insurance agent offers a multi-vehicle discount. They\n: do this all the time for cars, assuming that you're only capable of \n\nProgressive offers multi-vehicle discounts.\nGood prices too IMHO.\n\ntony", "You really expect a cop to answer these honestly?\n\n(First you gotta expect a cop to be honest...that's another\nstory...)\n", "\nI'll pick up that PM and have a look -- maybe the picture in there is not\nthe actual car, but a prototype?\n\nI saw the Mach III and was not all that impressed -- it looked WAY too\nJapanese for me... the tear drop headlights reminded me of a Nissan NX...\n\nGlad I didn't hold out for the '94 and bought a '93. Maybe they'll work on\nthe design a little bit, listen to consumers and come out with nice-looking\n'95 or '96. It always takes a while to work out the kinks in a new design,\ne.g. the F-body Camaro/Firebirds (btw, the new Camaros look like shit too).\n-- \nKeath Milligan, Software Engineer, VideoTelecom Corporation, Austin, Texas\njkm@vtel.com, reaper@wixer.bga.com", "I was following an example of the LH the other day, and noticed the fit\nbetween the tunk lid and the rear bumper. The gap was quite small on\nthe left side, but much larger on the right. Blech!!!", "[...]\n\n So, in short, the 3/8\" cables seems to be pretty useless, I would guess.\n\n The larger cable seems to be a much better unit.\n\n I've got the larger cable - about 5/8\" inch in diameter (actually, I think\nits larger), about 4 feet long which coils into a 8 or 9 inch coil, with the\ntubular key lock like the U-locks. It has worked fine for me for two years\nnow, and *seems* (to me, anyway) that it is very secure. It doesn't have the\nweaknesses that the U-locks have other than the liquid nitrogen trick\nsupposedly, is much easier to store in my tankbag than a U-lock, and more\nversatile. I got mine from one of the mail-order houses (Motorcycle Accessory\nWarehouse, I beleive), for $42.\n\n In combination with an ignition disable, and a couple of other deterrents,\nall I *usually* worry about is vandalism.\n\nRandy Davis Email: randy@megatek.com\nZX-11 #00072 Pilot {uunet!ucsd}!megatek!randy\nDoD #0013", "\n >Have you head of small claims. You may have to put money up\n >front for the filing fees, and then possibly having the local \n >sheriff of his/her city to deliver the bad news. In the end \n >the other party will end up paying for his/her mistake with \n >interest from the time of the filing to the pay date of the\n >defendent\n\nI think the problem with small claims court is that you have to go to\nthe location of the person you're taking action against. It seems to\nme the time and money involved in travelling out there (unless this\nperson is close to you) wouldn't be worth it for a small claim.\nIt really depends on how much money you're out.\n\nIf I am wrong about any of this, someone please correct me! ;)\n\n\n\n-- \n-----------------------------------------------------------------\nKenneth Simon Dept of Sociology, Indiana University\nInternet: KSSIMON@INDIANA.EDU Bitnet: KSSIMON@IUBACS ", "\n\nYes, but then someone would have no problem draining your oil in a parking lot.\n\nall they have to do is reach underneath, turn a valve, and forget the trip \nhome.\nBut there is less likelyhood they have a wrench with them.\n\nI personally recommend, installing a 'special' locking drain plug to keep\nvandals away. :---)", "Hi,\n\tJust a quick question. What standard lab solvents can be used to\nclean electronic equipment and components safely (ie not corrode, dissolve,\nshort-out, etc the equipment)?\n\twater?\t:-)\n\tmethanol?\n\tCCl4?\n\tetc?\nI am not an electronics type (surprise, surprise), and I want to avoid using\nfreons.", "Their number is 1-800-541-4716\n\tthey are based in Chicago, IL in case\n\tyou need to call dir assistance.\n\n\tTheir prices are more down to earth than\n\tANY other source for car innards/outers.\n\n\tThey will send you a free catalog. ", "My 1988 Toyota 4Runner has a rolldown rear window with a keylock\nswitch. It sticky on me. Yesterday it was tough to get the\nkey to work and it also happened to stick on in the up direction\nso the stalled motor was powered all night killing the battery.\n\nI'd like to try to lubricate the lock switch. What should I lubricate\nthe lock with?\n\nemail please, \n\nthanx, Ken.\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\"Don't drink American corporate swill. Support you local micro-brewery.\" -me", "1976 BMW 530i\n\nThe original four door sports sedan\n\n\nArctic Blue metallic with gold alloy plus-1 wheels (Rial 15\")\nGoodyear Eagle GT+4 racing tires (mud/snow-rated)\n3.0 liter, 186 HP, fuel injected engine w/Stahl headers\nadjustable gas shocks all around (Koni,BYK)\n4 speed stick, 4 wheel power disc brakes, sunroof, PS, AC\nListen-Up installed hidden speaker stereo w/subwoofer\n\n208K miles (yet much better condition than most cars w/100K)\nMeticulously maintained: all records, 3K mi oil changes\nFaded paint on top, otherwise excellent exterior and interior.\n\nThe car has required no major repair work in the more than ten years I have\nowned it. It has never failed to start or broken down, even in the coldest\nweather. This has been an extraordinarily reliable and economical car, and\nshows every sign of staying that way. Yet it is an absolute thrill to drive\nwhen you take it to secluded twisty mountain road! I sell it now,\nreluctantly, since I just succumbed to the convertible craving and bought a\nnew Miata.\n\n$2500 obo\nRich Fozzard\t497-6011 or 444-3168\n\n", "posting for a friend\n1982 porsche 928 new this vehicle was $74,000\ntoday book list this vehicle between 11,500 to 15,000\nperfect in every way with all options including new paint, leather interior,\nsunroof and low miles\ncall (408) 264-4444 ask for frank and lets negotiate trades considered\n", "\nHell, just save your candle stubs and bring them. Light them up, and\ndribble the wax all over the kindling wood and light _that_. Although\nI like the belly-button lint / eggshell case idea the best, if you're\nfeeling particularly industrious some eventful evening. Or you can\ndo what I did one soggy summer: open the fuel line, drain some onto a \npiece of rough or rotten wood, stick that into the middle of the soon-to-\nbe inferno and CAREFULLY strike a match... As Kurt Vonnegut titled one\nof the latter chapters in Cat's Cradle, \"Ah-Whoom!\"\n\nWorks like a charm every time :-)\n", "which are them main trucking companeies and\ntheir locations? do you have the name of ac\na contact person?\n\n\nthanks..", "I was in the great storm.....my Mazda MPV was damaged so bad they are \ngoing to replace the top, doors and hood. It is Black so they will repaint \nthe entire vehicle...estimated cost around $7000 and repair time approx. 3 \nto 4 weeks.\n", "\n\tProfessionals who train guard dogs, when polled, gave themselves a\n1 in 4 chance of survival tackling a trained dog unarmed. A trained guard\ndog is not to be trifled with. An untrained mutt may be another story.\n\nObMoto: A local dog used to chase me all the time. Really annoying. I \nfinally started stopping every time he'd chase me. He didn't know what to do\nthen and would usually just slink off the road. After a couple weeks of this\nhe stopped chasing me altogether. He would still chase cars or other bikes,\nthough. I think he recognized me when I went by ;-).\n\n ------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n - Mike Heathman VX800 - Briar Rose DoD #0284 -\n - Lilly Research T500 - Titan (Awaiting Resurrection) -\n - Indianapolis, IN \"Where am I to go, now that I've gone too far? -", ": What is a general rule of thumb for sobriety and cycling? Couple hours after\n: you \"feel\" sober? What? Or should I just work with \"If I drink tonight, I\n: don't ride until tomorrow\"?\n\nIt depends on how badly you want to live. The FAA says \"eight hours, bottle\nto throttle\" for pilots but recommends twenty-four hours. The FARs specify\na blood/alcohol level of 0.4 as legally drunk, I think, which is more than\ntwice as strict as DWI minimums.\n\nBTW, alcohol metabolizes in your blood at a fixed rate -- one beer/hour will\nkeep your blood/alcohol level barely street-legal. Coffee, hyperventilation\nand other bar tricks won't speed it up nor will they fool Mr. Ranger.", "Geico supports (reads gives to police) Laser Radars. They have been known \nto be very picky. No sports cars. No radar detectors (although Maryland \ninsurance board over rules this consistantly). No turbos.\n\nBasically it seems if you need to use your insurance ever they don't want \nyou. They once told me they wouldn't insure me (perfect record) because of \nmy corvette even though it would be insured by another specialty insurance. \n \"We must insure all the cars\". I think this rep didn't know what she was \ntalking about.\n\nGeico is cheap. But if you ever file a claim be prepared to be dropped. I \nthink in most areas two tickets will do it.\n\nGeico will never see a dime from me If I can help it.", "I don't know about the dinky little Zephyr's, but the 1100 (now\nthe ZR1100) looks alot like my '76 Z1/ KZ900! The one I drooled over\nat Tri-Sports in Topsham, ME was a looker!\n\nYes, Mercury axed the Zephyr name. Guess a lot of aging Republicans\nwanted a Zephyr and confused the Mercury with the Kawasaki :). Oh\nwell, they're better off with the Kawasaki anyways. Maybe it'll shake the\nstick out of their asses and make Libertarians out of them!\n\nAs to the GPz <--> Zephyr, the only GPz I've seen had the ball-buster\ngas tank profile, not the smooth saddle - to - gas tank transition.\n_Motorcyclist_ claims the Zephyr / ZR is the modernized Z1 (KZ) from the\nseventies.\nJeff Andle DoD #3005 1976 KZ900 REE700A@MAINE.MAINE.EDU", "\nI really must object to that last statement. Having a lot of experience\nwith a '92 Grand Am coupe, I can firmly state that they do have a lot of\noutstanding qualities. Very reliable throughout. Great layout of controls\nand components. Very roomy considering the exterior size of the car. They \nlook sharp inside and out. The V6 that I drive has exceptional power and \ndrivability compared to other similar cars that I have driven.\n\nAll in all, it's a fun-to-drive, dependable, and reasonably priced vehicle.\nPlease don't knock it with a statement like that unless you back it up with\nspecific reasons why you feel that way.\n\nRob\nbell@plains.nodak.edu\n", "\nSorry to split hairs, but I just read in \"The making of the atomic\nbomb\"(*) that teflon was developed during world war 2. A sealant was\nneeded for the tubing in which uranium hexafluoride passed as it was\ngradually enriched by difussion. UF6 is very corrosive, and some very\ninert yet flexible material was needed for the seals.\n\n\nAlejo Hausner (hausner@qucis.queensu.ca)", "Well, there *is* a difference.\n\nI don't happen to have my SAE manual handy, but oil viscosity in general\n_decreases_ with temperature. The SAE numbers are based on a `typical'\ncurve that oils used to all have, running from (say) the viscosity of a\nroom-temperature 90-weight at 0C, down to (say) that of a room-temperature \n5-weight at 20C, for a typical 40-weight oil.\n\nOils that are designed for operation in `normal' temperatures just have\na weight specification. Oils that are designed for operation in exceedingly\ncold temperatures have a `W' tacked on the end, so in winter in a cold\nplace, you'd stick 10W in your car in the winter and 40 in it in the summer,\nto approximate the appropriate viscosity throughout the year.\n\nModern multi-viscosity oils change viscosity much less with temperature.\nAs a result, their viscosity graphs cross over several curves. A multi-vis\nspecification pegs the curve at two temperatures, a `normal' operating\ntemperature and a `cold' one (though I can't remember the numbers...).\n\nIn any event, the weights do indicate a significant difference. Remember\nthat your engine is temperature-regulated (by the thermostat and\nradiator or air fins) most of the time -- unless you overheat it or\nsomething.\n\nAny weight of oil is better than no oil, or than very old, carbonized\noil. Thin oil won't (in general) lubricate as well at temperature,\nthicker oil will (like a 20W50) will lubricate better at temperature, \nbut not as well during startup, when most engine wear occurs. \n\nIf you're planning on making long drives, the 20W50 is probably fine\n(esp. in the summer) in your 10W40 car. But if you're making short drives,\nstick to the 10W40.\n\n", "\nI would like to offocially nominate Maxima Chain Wax as another\nOfficial (tm) DoD product of choice.", "\n\tOk, so how about the creation of oil producing bacteria? I figure\nthat if you can make them to eat it up then you can make them to shit it.\nAny comments?", "\nWhen I needed heated grips I made them from pieces of an old bicycle\ninner tube and a cheap electric heating pad from the drugstore, on top\nof foam grips: soft *and* warm. Cheaper by about a factor of 5, too.", "\n\nI too have seen the miracle of Maxima Chain Wax. Not only does it lube\nand stay where it's supposed to, but I swear I can ride faster now. Yes,\nnot only does it lube your chain, it makes you a better rider. And more\nattractive to members of the opposing sex. And smarter. And....", "\nA squid is the guy I saw back in December on cool 40 degree morning on my way\nto work. He was wearing knee-length pants, light jacket, no gloves, though he\nwas going considerably slower than DoD nominal.", " A 180 degree V Ya gotta love it !>\n\n\n", "\n\tI second that. They even had sprockets for my R100rs - _very_ hard\n\tto find.", "Greetings fellow motorcycle roadracing enthusiasts!\n\n BACKGROUND\n ----------\n\n The racing listserver (boogie.EBay.sun.com) contains discussions \n devoted to racing and racing-related topics. This is a pretty broad \n interest group. Individuals have a variety of backgrounds: motojournalism, \n roadracing from the perspective of pit crew and racers, engineering,\n motosports enthusiasts.\n\n The size of the list grows weekly. We are currently at a little\n over one hundred and eighty-five members, with contributors from\n New Zealand, Australia, Germany, France, England, Canada\n Finland, Switzerland, and the United States.\n\n The list was formed (October 1991) in response to a perceived need \n to both provide technical discussion of riding at the edge of \n performance (roadracing) and to improve on the very low signal-to-noise \n ratio found in rec.motorcycles. Anyone is free to join.\n\n Discussion is necessarily limited by the rules of the list to \n issues related to racing motorcycles and is to be \"flame-free\". \n\n HOW TO GET THE DAILY DISTRIBUTION\n ---------------------------------\n\n You are welcome to subscribe. To subscribe send your request to:\n\n\n race-request@boogie.EBay.Sun.COM\n\n\n Traffic currently runs between five and twenty-five messages per day\n (depending on the topic). \n\n NB: Please do _not_ send your subscription request to the\n list directly.\n \n After you have contacted the list administrator, you will receive\n an RSVP request. Please respond to this request in a timely manner\n so that you can be added to the list. The request is generated in\n order to insure that there is a valid mail pathway to your site.\n \n Upon receipt of your RSVP, you will be added to either the daily\n or digest distribution (as per your initial request).\n\n HOW TO GET THE DIGEST DISTRIBUTION\n ----------------------------------\n\n It is possible to receive the list in 'digest'ed form (ie. a\n single email message). The RoadRacing Digest is mailed out \n whenever it contains enough interesting content. Given the\n frequency of postings this appears to be about every other\n day.\n\n Should you wish to receive the list via digest (once every \n 30-40K or so), please send a subscription request to:\n\n\n digest-request@boogie.EBay.Sun.COM\n\n\n HOW TO POST TO THE LIST\n -----------------------\n\n This is an open forum. To post an article to the list, send to:\n\n\n race@boogie.EBay.Sun.COM\n\n\n Depending on how mail is set up at your site you may or may\n not see the mail that you have posted. If you want to see it\n (though this isn't necessarily a guarantee that it went out)\n you can include a \"metoo\" line in your .mailrc file (on UNIX\n based mail systems). \n\n BOUNCES\n -------\n\n Because I haven't had the time (or the inclination to replace\n the list distribution mechanism) we still have a problem with\n bounces returning to the poster of a message. Occasionally,\n sites or users go off-line (either leaving their place of\n employment prematurely or hardware problems) and you will receive\n bounces from the race list. Check the headers carefully, and\n if you find that the bounce originated at Sun (from whence I\n administer this list) contact me through my administration\n hat (race-request@boogie.EBay.sun.com). If not, ignore the bounce. \n\n OTHER LISTS \n -----------\n\n Two-strokes: 2strokes@microunity.com\n Harleys: harley-request@thinkage.on.ca\n or uunet!watmath!thinkage!harley-request\n European bikes: majordomo@onion.rain.com\n (in body of message write: subscribe euro-moto)\n\n\n thanks, be seeing you, \n Rich (race list administrator)\n\n rich@boogie.EBay.Sun.COM", "[...]\n ^^^^^\n[...]\n[...]\n\n\nGiven my desire to stay as far away as possible from farming and ranching\nequipment, I really hate to jump into this thread. I'm going to anyway,\nbut I really hate it.\n\nEd, exactly what kind of mutant horse-like entity do you ride, anyway?\nDoes countersteering work on the normal, garden-variety, one-necked horse?\n\nObmoto: I was flipping through the March (I think) issue of Rider, and I\nsaw a small pseudo-ad for a book on hand signals appropriate to motorcycling.\nIt mentioned something about a signal for \"Your passenger is on fire.\" Any\nbody know the title and author of this book, and where I could get a copy?\nThis should not be understood as implying that I have grown sociable enough\nto ride with anyone, but the book sounded cute.\n\n\n\n\n-----\nTommy McGuire\nmcguire@cs.utexas.edu\nmcguire@austin.ibm.com", "*Teddy O'Neill-Creature with furry Hobbit feet from Bath UK*,\na sentimental fool, posts:\n \n With the force of a world-wide youth movement, it ought to\n be possible to establish a coordinated global program to\n accomplish the strategic goal of completely eliminating the\n internal combustion engine over, say, a twenty year period.\n\nEvidently there are no open questions, either scientific or about\nhow people prefer to live.\n", "\n\nTry another dealer. Sometimes the sophistication of equipment etc is\nbetter at one dealer than another. You may also find another dealer\nwilling to help you with the problem.", "\n\n\nCar accessory shops here sell stuff called T-Cut, which is a very fine\ncutting paste for paint, and this will remove the dull finish and\nminor acratches. It will also remove all the traffic film and stuff that\nyou probably don't realise is there, and give your paintwork its original\nlustre and shine. It can sometimes react badly with metallic paint, though,\nso try it out carefully before going to town with the stuff. Afterwards\napply wax polish, and all will be well again.\n\nBTW - don't confuse T-cut with the cutting paste used for grinding in \nvalves...the principle's the same but the coarseness is vastly different...", "\n\n\tThe V-max goes in a strait line like shit shrough a goose.\nIn the corners, I'd rather ride a Honda 305 Dream.", "\nI had the same problem in my '90 MX-6. Luckily I had it fixed\nunder warranty. I think they replaced a tail light gasket.\nCheck with a dealer, it's a known problem.\n", "\n\n\n\n\tWasn't the original intent of the reverse lights for the driver, so he\ncould see where he was backing up??? Although reverse lights on the sides\nare useful for telling whether cars are backing up out perpendicular to the\npath of the car, I don't think warnings were their original intents, since they\nare colored white.\n\n\n", "\nThat will make it easy for a car thief.\nSaves him/her the trouble of popping your ignition!\n", "No, it is more because van drivers need a little support for driving\nsuch underpowered pathetic and truly utilitarian vehicles. Me and\nmy '71 used to wave and be waved at all across the country between\nNH and CO. Now that we live in So. Cal., though, I find you'd have\nto damn near wave your arm off to keep up with all the van drivers!\nThis is truly vee-dub heaven.\n\npeace,\nTaffe\n", "\nHad an '83 Alliance for a long time. It was a comfortable but sluggish\ncar. I got very used to the horn on the stalk, after a couple months worth\nof getting used to it. After I bought my next car, a Chevy, it took me\nfor-EVER to get used to the horn on the steering wheel again!\n\njim grey\njwg@acd4.acd.com", "\n Sure you can have everything, if by \"everything\" you mean fast straight line\nperformance AND handling - present day liter sport bikes have more horsepower\nand have faster 0-60 and 1/4 mile times than the V-max... Plus, they corner\njust a bit better...\n\n\n Very true.\n\nRandy Davis Email: randy@megatek.com\nZX-11 #00072 Pilot {uunet!ucsd}!megatek!randy\nDoD #0013", "Talking about car alarms, there are certain cars in this country that are \nonly insurable if they are fitted with a Vecta alarm. We're talking Coswoths\nand Porsches and stuff. Just before they (the insurance companies) decided to \nmake this move, they insisted that the car be fitted with a Scorpion alarm (\nnow they've changed to the Vecta)... so everyone who's spent $$$ on fitting \nthe Scorpion alarm have founbd themselves having to upgrade to the Vecta system.", "\n\timho, you did the wrong thing. You could have been shot\n or he could have run over your bike or just beat the shit\n out of you. Consider that the person is foolish enough\n to drive like a fool and may very well _act_ like one, too.\n\n Just get the heck away from the idiot.\n\n IF the driver does something clearly illegal, you _can_\n file a citizens arrest and drag that person into court.\n It's a hassle for you but a major hassle for the perp.", " \n If a large Malmute counts then yes someone has heard(and seen) such\nan irresponsible childish stunt. The dog needed assistance straightening\nout once on board. The owner would lift the front legs of dog and throw\nthem over the driver/pilots shoulders. Said dog would get shit eating\ngrin on its face and away they'd go. The dogs ass was firmly planted\non the seat.\n \n My dog and this dog actively seek each other out at camping party's.\nThey hate each other. I think it's something personal.", "\nIt depends on the bike. Once you've found a bike you're interested in, call\nsome insurance companies for rates. Some bikes are much cheaper to insure than\nyou might think (my EX-500 only costs me $127/year in St. Louis; I'm 27)\n\nFor a first bike, I recommend 500cc's or less. And a bike short enough to get\nboth feet on the ground when you stop.\n \nThe one piece of advice EVERYONE will give you is to take a Motorcycle Safety\nFoundation Rider's Course. See a dealer for details. In some states, completion\nof such a course can give you a break on insurance. It will also teach you\nto ride properly from the beginning, so you won't learn any bad habits.\n\nGood luck. Riding a motorcycle is the most fun you can have, naked or otherwise.", " \nThe federal government has mandated that all passenger cars by model year\n'95 return to the floor mounted dimmer switch.\n\nA study by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has\nfound that an unacceptable percentage of after dusk collisions were the\ndirect result of unskilled drivers getting their left foot stuck in the\nsteering wheel :-)\n\n-- \nRon Gaskins c23reg@koptsw21.delcoelect.com\nAutomotive Electronic Systems Delco Electronics\nGM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904 ", "\n Depends on in what context you want it commented on. It handles great\ncompared to some bikes, not so good compared to others. What would you like\nit compared to? (Yes, I've put a few miles on one, although I've never owned\none).\n\nRandy Davis Email: randy@megatek.com\nZX-11 #00072 Pilot {uunet!ucsd}!megatek!randy\nDoD #0013", "\nOr perhaps any planning at all. :-) Hiya Pete, still got that CBX?\nNice to hear from you again!\n\n\nOuch. :-) This brings to mind one of the recommendations in the\nHurt Study. Because the rear of the gas tank is in close proximity\nto highly prized and easily damaged anatomy, Hurt et al recommended\nthat manufacturers build the tank so as to reduce the, er, step function\nprovided when the rider's body slides off of the seat and onto the\ngas tank in the unfortunate event that the bike stops suddenly and the \nrider doesn't. I think it's really inspiring how the manufacturers\nhave taken this advice to heart in their design of bikes like the \nCBR900RR and the GTS1000A.", "\nOh, really. When?\n\n\nThe '93 Mustang Cobra can. Check it out.\n\n\nEhhhh, maybe. The '93 Mustang Cobra does a good job for a lower price,\nand it's just a taste of what's ahead in the 30th Anniversary of\nthe original Pony Car.\n\n\nJust think! Corvettes are almost up to the performance levels\nof a '65 Cobra! Wow! In a few years, they might be up to the\nperformance levels of a '66 Ford GT-40. Wow, man, just think\nabout it... ;-)\n\n\t\t\t\tJames", "\nBecause, unlike the UK, passing the average driving test over here\nusually only requires a pulse & a single digit IQ. Every state controls\ntheir own licensing requirements, so it's possible that there's a test\nout there that actually requires some driving skills, but I doubt it.", "\nthe fancy piggyback shocks on the 550 (and the 750, i think. i don't\nknow about the zr1100) are very nice, 3-way adjustability. the forks\nare crappy, they dive like MAD. i had progressive springs installed\nand it made a huge difference. cheap fix, MUCH improvement.", "\tWhat used to peeve me in Canada was the cars with bloody _red_ rear\nindicators. You'd see a single red light come on and think, \"Now, is he\nstopping but one brake-lamp is not working, or does he have those dumb bloody\n_red_ rear indicators?\" This being Survival 101, you have to assume he's\nbraking and take the appropriate actions, until such time as the light goes\nout and on again, after which you can be reasonably certain it's a bloody _red_\nrear indicator.", " \n\nI dunno, on my old GS1000E the tank-seat junction was nice and smooth.\nBut if you were to travel all the way forward, you'd collect the top\ntriple-clamp in a sensitive area. I'd hate to have to make the choice,\nbut I think I'd prefer the FJ's gas tank. :-)", ": > until...and more Saturn retailers are built(like 2 in the same city), \n: \t\t ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n: ...most medium and large cities have...a small handful of Saturn dealers now\n\nSacramento has two Saturn dealerships.\n\n: Mihir Shah", "\n\n\tYou talking bout the same Noemi I know? She makes me think of big bore\nhand guns and extreme weirdness. This babe rode a CSR300 across the desert! And\na borrowed XL100 on the Death Ride. Don't fuck with her man, your making a big\nmistake.\n\n\n\n-- \nGo fast. Take chances.", "\nAt least locally, many shops carry a product called Goo Gone. It works well\non scummy-gummy-sticky-goop-that-won't-go-away... As always, color test in\nan inconspicuous corner before use.\n", "From what I've seen in my 17 years as an MOA member, most of the folks\nin the RA are also in the MOA... I guess it's called covering all the\nbases to get some idea of what is really happening.. How else does one\nthink the RA gets all the juicey news about what's happen' inside the \nMOA?", "xSorry to repost this again so soon, but\nxthe information from my earlier post was\nxdeleted from our system.\nxI am looking for information concerning\nx\"sprayed-on\" bedliners for pickup trucks.\nxA company here does it using polyurethene\nxbut they've only been around for 9 months\nxso there's not much of a track record here.\nxIs the sprayed-on bedliner any good? How\nxwell do they hold up over the years? Any\nxinfo would be appreciated.\nx\nxThanks.\nx\nxDennis\nDo you have a Ziebart dealer in your area? They've offered spray\non bed liners around here for several years. If you do, see what\nkind of a warranty they have. ( Unfortunately, I don't know anyone\nwho has gotten one so I can't help you there.) Also ask if they\ncan give you a list of references.\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\nMack Costello Code 65.1 (formerly 1720.1)\nDavid Taylor Model Basin, Carderock Division Hq. NSWC ___/-\\____\nBethesda, MD 20084-5000 Phone (301) 227-2431 (__________>|", "\n\nThese arethe numbers I have been stating in the past 5-10 messages. It\nreally angers me that you insisted you were right, and that you had\nno clue what your own car weighed. Why didn't you check when I first\ntold you that your figures were implausible?\n\n\n\nI'd like to hear a better explanatin of how you come to that \nconclusion from the above data.\n\nNo, sorry your wrong again. *You* quoted the del Sol as doing 0-60 in\n8.1 according to C+D. Interestingly, the Stealth ES, which is\n*faster* than your RT does the samerun in 8.5 seconds according to\nC+D. Kind of embarassing isn't it? Why didn't you check the figures\n\nbefore posting? It only makes you look stupid when you are caught out\ntwice with *your own* figures.\n\n\nYou really should have checked.\n\n *2*\nIf you insist, I gave you every chance to retract, but:\n\n Dodge Stealth ES Auto does an 8.5/16.4 - Wonder why you couldn't find it?\n\nDo you realize that a 9k Sentra (C+D) will run a 16.7, that a Sentra SE-R or Saturn\nwill run in the 15's? Don't you think it is kind of strange that your\n222hp sports car is so easily beaten. \n\nA Mustang 5.0, which weights about the same (according to *your* numbers),\nhas less power and is much quicker? Care to explain. Don't be abusive,\njust try and come up with a rational explanation of where those 222hp\nwent to, its a mystery to me.\n\n", "\nThe clutch on my '92 Honda Civic EX-V (EX in the U.S.) does this too.\nIt's annoying. Now that I think about, it _is_ worse when the humidity is\nhigh. The dealer also claims there's nothing they can do since the clutch is \na \"self-adjusting hydraulic design\". Yeah, right.\n", "\n\tIf you get blown over riding your bike down your drive at home then\nit's too windy to ride...=8^D.", "\nOpen up one of the airbag control boxes. They have inexpensive piezoelectric\naccelerometers in them. I know that the GM cars use the Setra units. The\ncheapest way to get such an accelerometer is to cannibalize an existing\nautomotive unit.", "I had the insturment panel go out in my car (a 1990 Lincoln Contenintal) which\nis a digital dash. They replaced the whole thing with a 1991 dash (thank god it\nwas under the warrenty ! :-) Anyway, the odometer was reading the exact milage\nfrom the old panel. It must have a EEPROM of some sort in it that is up-dated.\nSeems to me that removing the battery would erase it, but it doesn't. So I\nguess they swapped the NVM chip (non-volitile memory) and installed it in the\nnew dash. No, they wouldn't let me have the old dash to tinker with :-(\n", " \nAs the owner of a V65 Sabre (shaftie), I can answer from personal experience:\n\nAieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!", "\n\nBack in high school I used to work for a detailing company, and one of the\nservices we offered was an engine cleaning (remove all that oil BEFORE you\nsell the car... ;-}). Unfortunately, we did not have a high pressure\nwasher so we would use one several miles from the shop. On more than one\noccasion after washing the engine, it would not start as water would have\ngotten under the distributor (I would put a plastic bag around it to try and\nminimize this), around the spark plug wires, etc and it would be nearly\nIMPOSSIBLE to try and wipe all these areas down with a dry rag. The usual\nsolution was to carry a can of WD-40, and when the car wouldn't start to spray\nall the likely areas and it would then start on the very first time.\n\nIt may be a myth, but it certainly kept me from being stranded at a car wash...\n\n--", "\n greetings:\n you may be in luck. i seem to recall seeing a blurb in one of\nthe kit car magazines about a company in norway who pulled a\nmould (sp?) off a real kubel, and has adapted it to the beetle\nfloorpan. as for the suspension, all i can remember about the\nvw thing i used to own is that it had about 3\" more suspension\ntravel than a stock beetle, but i'd heard that there were after-\nmarket parts for off-road use that were as good or better. note\nthat the major difference (looks wise) between a kubel & a thing\nare the hood and the fenders. the kubel had an external spare\nmounted *on* the hood, and the hood sloped down (for visibility?)\nsharply, and had rounded fenders. the thing has a lightly sloped \nhood with the spare mounted inside (unless moved to make for more\nluggage space...) and has half-hexagon shaped fenders (imagine a\nnut large enough to put a tire *in*, and cut off the bottom half\nof it...).\n unfortunately, i don't have that info anymore. try stopping\nat a local bookstore and copying down the phone numbers for the\ntwo big mag's and calling them. they might be able to get the\nnumber for you (don't forget to calculate the time difference to\nnorway before calling...).\n\nlater,\nkc", "\nMy Nissan Quest has been doing 20mpg city, though its first few tanks\nwere more like 17mpg. The V6 and AT are remarkably smooth.\n---\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\nJohnny P. Stephens | Sig file upgrade on backorder. Will be\nDistance Learning Technology | here \"any day now.\"\nArizona State University | Opinions expressed are mine.", "\n\tAhh Broncos. Well personally, I have a '78. The blue book is just\na hair over 3 grand. I bought it for 2500 and then bought new tires 650\nfront end rebuild 350, carb rebuild 130. Then i did the unthinkable\nand blew the engine (not bronco specific, unmaintained engine with 168,000)\n2400 more bucks there, now it is in nice condition, well after new seats out\nof a t-bird, radio, 2 amps, speakers, alarm, well the radio and amps were \nfree and i bought the speakers used for 40 bucks, and the other speakers\ni took out of my old jeep (Sell a Jeep for a bronco you might ask,\nbut it was a Wagoneer). Its a lovely specimen, solid front and rear\naxels, ford 9\" and a dana 44 up front. Watch the rear axel wrap, i \nbusted off my u-bolts ONCE, i added traction shocks after that and \nhaven't had a problem since. Also the bottom of the doors tend to \nrot, bottom of the tailgates likes to rust right up to the new ones\nthat might be in your budget. The post 80 broncos have that sickly\nTTB front end and little stamped and folded steel radius arms were\nas the 78-79 have nice big cast iron longer radius arms(ie more prspective\nwheel travel). The only rust i have is on my doors and a few\ndings in the sheet metal. I don't know when the removeable tops were\ndiscontinued but they are fun. I just ordered a full convertable top\nfor 400$ for mine(credit card). Don't ever break the window if you\nhave the double laminated bronzed privacy glass in your cap it is over\n400 bucks to replace. My bronco also does pretty good offroad,\ni haven't bottomed out my suspension, YET, and have crossed over\n3 foot deep of water with no problems, handles rocks like a charm too.\nOne problem is it is WIDE and you sometimes can't follow a CJ or a\nToyota, between two rocks or trees, and your grandmother will have\na hard time getting up into it.", "Orating with wild abandon, prange@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (Henry Prange) offers:\n%The grips on my GS are a wonderful thing in the winter and no problem\n%in the summer. Vibration? BMW's don't vibrate. Everyone knows that.\n\nI'd agree with Henry. The grips are really nice to have in winter,\nand aren't noticably different from 'normal' grips in summer. \n\nMy only complaint is that the 'low' setting might as well be 'off'.\nThis has been complained about by every reviewer, official and\nunofficial, that's ever talked about these grips. The 'high' setting\nis often too high for use with lightweight summer gloves when things\njust get a bit nippy, but since 'low' doesn't produce a noticable\neffect, I end up turning the grips on and off to keep the temperature\nabout right. This generally isn't a problem when wearing thicker\nwinter gloves. When I asked the dealer if they could fix it, I\nreceived a consoling pat on the back, and their sincere apologies for\nthe poor design (actually, I was told they worked just like they were\nsuppose to).\n\nVibration? What's that? I ride a BMW twin. You can barely tell if\nthe engine is fired up or not most of the time, smoother than silk\nsheets.\n", ": Okay DoD'ers, here's a goddamn mystery for ya !\n\nOh goody! I love a puzzle. Watson! The games afoot!\n\n: Today I was turning a 90 degree corner just like on any other day, but there\n: was a slight difference- a rough spot right in my path caused the suspension\n: to compress in mid corner and some part of the bike hit the ground with a very\n: tangible \"thunk\". I pulled over at first opportunity to sus out the damage. \n\n\n\n: Okay all you engineering types, how the f**k do you explain this ? How can you\n: rip a tightly fitting steel thread out of a threaded hole (in alloy) without\n: damaging the thread in the hole ? Is this some sort of hi-tech design thingo\n\nLet me guess. You were making a left turn, correct? The edge of the stud\ncontacting the road caused it to turn and unthread itself. If you had \nbeen making a right turn it would have tightened the stud. \n\n", "\n: \tNice cop out bill.\n\nI'm sure you're right, but I have no idea to what you refer. Would you\nmind explaining how I copped out?", "I'd like to hear stories on experiences with the Hyundai Sonata. I\nknow Consumer Reports has trashed them but the people I know that\nhave them swear by them. They also haven't had the problems with\nthem that Consumer Reports claims. I haven't driven one yet. I\nhave driven a '93 Hyundai Elantra (which Consumer Reports also\ntrashed) and was very impressed with it. The local Hyundai\ndealership (\"no-haggle\" policy) is offering an Elantra GLS w/ power\nmoonroof for $13163. They also have a Sonata base, w/ Sunroof for\n$13997. I know my preference is for a Sonata GLS w/ sunroof and\n4-spd automatic. I'll decide which engine I prefer after test\ndriving both the 4-cyl and the V6. The Sonata is also offering a\n$1500 rebate. Hmmm, that's another question. Is the following\nscenario the appropriate manner to handle \"negotiation\"?\n\n1. make offer\n2. subtract rebate from offer\n3. talk trade\n4. subtract trade from offer to get final price\n\n", "I'm about to buy a new car and finance some of it. Since I paid\ncash for the last car I bought I did not have to worry about\nwhether or not I had a good amount of insurance on it because\nof a bank loan. I just put the amount that I wanted (not what\na bank would have wanted). Friends are telling me that banks\nrequire some kind of insurance on the car to protect it since it\nis collateral on loans. Is this true? Can that insurance be\ngotten as part of my other insurance? I assume I don't have to\npay a dealer for extra insurance over my regular car insurance.\nAm I correct? I hear about accident/health type insurance at\nthe dealers and I am pretty sure these are just money makers\nfor them. I just want to verify that I don't _have_ to buy\nthese at all. Or any other types of extras.\n\nWhat do I have to pay for? Car, tax, license. Anything else?", "I see it as the camel's nose.\n\nI'm willing to take my chances on winning the whole thing, personally.\n-Ekr\n\n", "\nTod, I think you've misspoke. If they're banking on owning a motorcycle\nto get them laid, then I doubt they have sexual fortunes. Quite the\nreverse...", "Any truth to the rumor of an AWD 3-series for '94? I believe\nthis info was published in either Popular Science or AutoWeek\na couple of months ago.\n\n Also, a friend told me that BMW used to make an AWD 325 called\nthe 325ix. I'd appreciate any info about this car too. Thanks..\n\n Thanks.", "\nTrue 914 enthusiasts will be able to give you a better answer then this\nbut I'll dump my impressions. I've wanted to own a 914 for about 10 years\nnow; came close once but I ended up buying a Fiero instead (biggest mistake\nof my life!)\n\nAnyway, for $4000 you should be able to get a nice car but your also set\nin the price range to get taken by a nice looker that is a pile of shit.\nThe most common total failure for the car would be frame rust between the\nengine and passenger compartment. Also look for chassis welded together\nhere. Oh yeah, the price range you are talking about must be the 4 banger;\na 6 (if you could find one) would be mucho more bucks.\n\nParts for the engine are pretty easy to come by (for an old car) and you\ncan even locate crude in the JC Whitney catalog if you have too.\n\nThe machine itself is pretty simple (they use the spare tire for windshild\nwasher instead of a pump fer chris sake!) so getting it fixed by a good\nbug/porsche mechanic would be easy. Since it is mid-engine you may spend\nmore on labor for any mechanical work.\n", "\nIn my case it goes down after the first four, because the fifth one usually\nmakes me throw up the last two.\n\nNeedless to say, I don't drink very much anymore, as the last time that\nhappened was in the second year of my undergrad. I was a silly .edu breath,\nand pretty bad breath at that.", "I have a '71 Buick Skylark with 148K on it. I bought it in California, and if\nit'll let me, I'd like to keep it for another year. The only problem is these\nIndiana winters--my heater controls don't work.\n\nThe car has vacuum operated control switches for the vents. Right now it is\nstuck in the \"vent\" mode. It will blow warm air, but I can't switch the air\nflow to either the floor (I can live without this) or the defrost (I can't \nlive without this). I probably could just jam the air deflector to the \ndefrost position, but this blows a lot of air in my face and is, well,\nkind of like putting a vacuum cleaner in reverse.\n\nI have taken parts of the dash off and looked at the vacuum system and I think\nthe problem (or part of it) is with the two diaphragms which control up/down\nand outside/inside air flow. THe diaphragm which controls outside(vent)/in-\nside(no vent) air is cracked most of the way around, and the other one is\nprobably damaged too, considering the advanced age of the car.\n\nTwo questions:\n\n\t1) Is there anything I should be aware of about this (other than\n\tthe fact that I should move from Indiana) ?\n\n\t2) In the event that replacement diaphragms aren't available, is there\n\ta way to \"fix\" this?\n\nTHanks for any advice/info\n\nselah,", "Unfortunately, I've got another story to add to this. My girlfriend\nand I were driving through west L.A., and got pelted by a rock just as\nwe were pulling away from a stoplight. The scary thing was that the\nrock was heavy enough to put a decent-sized dent in the door of my '72\nRiviera which is pretty much solid \"Detriot Iron.\" Couple of inches\nhigher and it would have gone through the window.\n\nChris\n--\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n Chris Barrus --- chrisb@lynx.ps.uci.edu --- kallista@aol.com\n 1972 Buick Riviera boattail, peace through superior automotive power!\n Sacred cows make the best hamburger - Abbie Hoffman", "} maintenance) and probably didn't know the answer at the start of the thread.\n\n\tUh, Doug, I don't know what school of thought your from, but chain \ndrive are MUCH more efficient than shafties. End of story. Period.\n\tBut I will give you that shafties are much less maintenance intensive...\n\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\tEthan", "I am sure Mary or Henry can describe this more aptly then me.\nBut here is how i understand it.\n\nAt Speed, Near supersonic. The wind behaves like a fluid pipe.\nIt becomes incompressible. So wind has to bend away from the\nwing edges. AS the wing thickens, the more the pipes bend.\n\nIf they have no place to go, they begin to stall, and force\ncompression, stealing power from the vehicle (High Drag).\n\nIf you squeeze the fuselage, so that these pipes have aplace to bend\ninto, then drag is reduced. \n\nEssentially, teh cross sectional area of the aircraft shoulf\nremain constant for all areas of the fuselage. That is where the wings are\nsubtract, teh cross sectional area of the wings from the fuselage.", "\nWouldn't that make them an I4? Or would they \nreally be an _4 (henceforth referred to as\n\"underscore 4\")?", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nGo the speed limit. As long as your not at the salt flats, you arn't gonna \nfrag yer ride. I wouldn't ride the DoD minimum until it had 500+ miles on \nit, but hell, I do that on a good weekend!\n\n ----===== DoD #8177 = Technician(Dr. Speed) .NOT. Student =====----", "\nrecently-manufactured locomotives have wheel-slip detection systems\nthat use frequencies shared with police radar (i forget which band).\nthese will set off your radar detector if you get close enough, though\ni believe the range is pretty short.", "Greetings all,\n\tCan anyone let me know status of UK law about riding motorcycles.\n\n\tI used to ride one about 12 years ago and never took my DOT test ( One\nof a whole list of things I wished I had done when I was young),but I have passed\nmy car driving test. I now travel from Littlehampton to Brighton every day\nand I'm getting PISSED off with the traffic/road works. I thinking about getting\na 100cc bike ( Don't Laugh ) just to get \"Streetwise\" and to take my test, then\nto get a bigger one ( 400 to 600 cc ).\n\n\tNow I have been told I don't have to do the CBT but what will I have\nto do to get a full licence ?\n\nThanks in advanced\n\nLeigh \n", "#> I heard the diesels are considered cleaner-burning than\n#> gas engines because the emit less of: Carbon Monoxide,\n#> Hydrocarbons, and Oxides of Nitrogen. (CO, HC, NOX).\n#> \n#> But they can put out a lot of particulate matter. I heard\n#> something about legislation being discussed to \"clean up\n#> diesel emissions\". Is there anything in the works to\n#> install \"scrubbers\" for diesels? How about the feasibility\n#> of installing them on trucks and cars? Would it be any\n#> different than a catylitic converter? I'd assume easier,\n#> since we're removing particulate matter instead of converting\n#> gasses. Let's hear people's opinions...\n#> \n# \n#VW and Mercedes have tinkered with particulate traps. Also, VW\n#uses a kind of turbocharger on their Jetta ECOdiesel that helps\n#reduce particulates as well, although I don't know the\n#mechanics of it.\n# \n#Many diesel cars,busses, and trucks in Europe are now being\n#equipped with catalysts and traps in an effort to clean up\n#diesel emissions, already well below legal limits anyway.\n# \n#It's a shame GM had to soil the diesel's reputation in\n#passenger cars and prevent further resource devotion to\n#research into making this outstandingly efficient engine even\n#further ahead of gas engines in emissions.\n# \n#erik\n\n I sure don't know what and how they measure in regards to diesel \n motors in cars, trucks, and busses, but I think they are probably\n measuring the wrong pollutants, or at the wrong time, or both.\n\n I certainly find it offensive to drive behind a diesel bus or\n diesel truck and some diesel cars. They stink! And it's always\n roll-up-the-windows panic time when one comes by or ducks in front\n of me when I am driving with my family.\n\n I don't think the combustion mixture is kept under very good\n control in diesel engines, and that's why they stink. So the \n invisible, unsmellable pollutants are reduced in diesels. Yeah,\n well so what!? Someone forgot about the visible, stinky kind, and,\n as far as I am concerned, those kind are just as bad.\n\n I am all for de-stinking the diesel vehicles. It'll keep the\n traffic signs cleaner, too.\n\n Fred W. Bach , Operations Group | Internet: music@erich.triumf.ca\n TRIUMF (TRI-University Meson Facility) | Voice: 604-222-1047 loc 327/278\n 4004 WESBROOK MALL, UBC CAMPUS | FAX: 604-222-1074\n University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., CANADA V6T 2A3", "\nmark andy (living in pittsburgh) bought his RZ350 from a dude in\nmassachusetts (or was it connecticut?).", "\nDirection-finding and directional monitoring receivers. Can you say \"little\nblack bakery truck\"?\n\n:-)\n\nDavid\n\n\n", "\n\n\n\n\nSorry, I should have been more specific. The 750 SS ran the quater in\n12.10 @ 108.17. The last small V-twin Duc we got in the US (and the 400 is\na Pantah based V-twin) was the 500SL Pantah, and it ran a creditable 13.0 @\n103. Modern carbs and what not should put the 400 in the high 12s at 105.\n\nBTW, FZR 400s ran mid 12s, and the latest crop of Japanese 400s will out\nrun that. It's hard to remember, but but a new GOOF2 will clobber an old\nKZ1000 handily, both in top end and roll-on. Technology stands still for\nno-one...\n", "Why can't an aircraft be designed so that the pilot can always be \nmaintained in a upright position, perpendicular to the plane of\nacceleration? With the visual helmets now being used that display\nsome of the flight parameters and with a keyboard and manuvering\nequipment moving with the pilot, a pilot may be able to function at\naccelerations in excess of 12G. Is anyone currently pursuing this\narea or is there a reason why this is impossible at the present time?\n", "\nWhile previous Volvos have been essentially very fast tractors, the 3,4 and 8 series\nare far from 'agricultural' in design or execution (how many FWD tractors have you \nseen?).\n\n\nYou state this like it is a bad thing. :^) (remember, car companies use\nad agencies - they don't do their own ads!)\n\n\nIs this true? I know that they had done joint ventures with Renault, but I haven't\nheard about their subsumption into Renault - does this mean that the French Government\nnow owns Volvo? - anyway, Renault makes some very nice cars, they just don't sell\n'em in N. America!\n\n\nHere! Here!\n", "Spike is owned by both Tom and I. We went 1/2's on the purchase price\nand have split costs of needed parts, registration, etc. Both names are\non the pink slip.\n\nI am covered by insurance to ride the Harley. I'd give it a go if\nI could work the clutch. I can barely get the clutch lever to move\nusing both hands while standing next to the bike. Ol' Sport is a\nvery distinctive bike.\nThe Concours is favorite of mine. I've pillioned an easy 4000 miles\non that bike in the last year. Unfortunately, my feet are a good\n10\" off the ground once I'm on her. No way I could take her for a\nride as pilot rather than pillion. If I could fit on a Concours, I'd\nbuy one. IMHO, the best sport-tourer made. I'm not _too_ upset\nI had to settle for the Ducati 750SS as my touring bike, though. :-)\n\nSo, now you know.\n\nBeth", "\nMy T-Bird SC's manual says to replace the platinum plugs every 60,000mi.\nWal-Mart has Autolite platinum plugs for $2.00 each. Are these \"real\"\nplatinum plugs? (I had Bosch platinums in my '80 Fiesta and my dad\nhad 'em in his '84 Bronco--note the keyword \"had.\" They didn't last\nvery long (much less than 50,000mi) before they had to be replaced.\nI agree that they weren't the greatest.)\n\n\t\t\t\tJames", "Archive-name: rec-autos/part4\n\n[this article is one of a pair of articles containing commonly\nasked automotive questions; the other article contains questions\nof general consumer interest, and is broken out to facilitate\ncrossposting to misc.consumers -- rpw]\n\n[last change: 8 February 1993; CT now permits radar detector usage,\n new tire-traction q&a -- rpw]\n\n Commonly Asked Questions\n\nRadar Questions:\n\nQ: Where are radar detectors illegal?\n\nA: In the US, currently Virgina and the District of Columbia prohibit\n all usage of radar detectors. New York prohibits their use in\n large trucks. In Canada, they are illegal in Manitoba, Ontario,\n Quebec, Newfoundland and PEI (Prince Edward Island). They\n are apparently are illegal through most, if not all, of Europe.\n Legislation which would make them illegal is pending in many other\n jurisdictions; chances of such legislation passing varies a great deal.\n\nQ: Where are Radar Detector Detectors used? Do they really work?\n\nA: Usage is spreading rapidly; initially they were used only in Canada,\n but now they are appearing in New York and Virginia. It is unsafe\n to assume that they are not in use in Connecticut and D.C.\n They work by detecting a certain frequency radiated by many currently\n available super Het radar detectors; some brands of detector radiate\n more strongly than others, and are thus more likely to be spotted.\n New radar detectors are becoming available which may not be detected\n by the current generation of detector detectors. Note that a\n detector may only be spotted by one of these devices if it is turned\n on.\n\nQ: What is VASCAR? Is it some kind of Radar?\n\nA: VASCAR is nothing more than a fancy stopwatch and time-speed-distance\n computer. It depends on the operator pressing buttons as the target\n vehicle passes landmarks. No radar signals are emitted by a VASCAR\n system.\n\nQ: What is Ka band radar? Where is it used? Should a radar detector be\n able to handle it? \n\nA: Ka band has recently been made available by the FCC for use in the US\n in so-called photo-radar installations. In these installations, a\n low-powered beam is aimed across the road at a 45 degree angle to the\n direction of traffic, and a picture is taken of vehicles which the\n radar unit determines to have been in violation of the speed limit.\n Tickets are mailed to the owner of the vehicle. Because of the low\n power and the 45 degree angle, many people believe that a radar\n detector cannot give reasonable warning of a Ka band radar unit,\n although some manufacturers of radar detectors have added such\n capability anyway. The number of locales where photo-radar is in use\n is limited, and some question the legality of such units. Best advice:\n learn what photo radar units look like, and keep track of where they\n are used (or else, don't speed.)\n\nQ: Do radar jammers work? Are they legal?\n\nA: Quick answer: No, and Not in the USA.\n Detailed answer: Cheap radar jammers do not work well at all.\n Jammers that work are expensive and usually the property of the\n military. Jammers are a major violation of the regulations of the\n Federal Communications Commission of the USA.\n\nDriving technique and Vehicle Dynamics Questions:\n\nQ: What are understeer and oversteer?\n\nA: Understeer and oversteer are terms describing the behaviour of a\n car while cornering near the `limit' (limit of adhesion, that is.)\n Most drivers do not normally drive hard enough for these terms to\n be descriptive of the situations they encounter. Simply put, they\n tell whether the car wants to go straight in a corner (steer `less',\n or `understeer') or it wants to turn more in a corner (`oversteer'.)\n Understeer is commonly designed into most production cars so that\n untrained drivers, inadvertantly traveling too fast, won't get into\n trouble. Understeer may also be induced by using too much throttle\n in a corner. Oversteer is designed into some more performance\n oriented cars; it may be induced by lifting on the throttle (Trailing\n throttle oversteer, or TTO). In extreme cases, lifting on the throttle\n may induce so much oversteer that the car reacts by fishtailing or\n spinning.\n\n Some technical details: in a corner at speed, the tires on the car\n will develop what are called `slip angles'; the slip angle is the\n angular difference between the direction that the car is traveling\n and the direction that the steering wheel is directing the car to\n travel. In understeer, the front wheels have a greater slip angle\n than the rear wheels. In oversteer, the rear wheels have a greater\n slip angle than the front wheels.\n\nQ: What is a rev-matched downshift?\n\nA: When downshifting, the engine must be rotating faster in the lower gear\n than it was in the higher gear. However, during a downshift, normally\n you declutch and lift your foot from the throttle, so the revs drop\n rather than increase. In rev-matched downshift, you blip the throttle\n before re-engaging the clutch so that the engine will already be up to\n the new speed. This results in a much smoother and faster downshift.\n\nQ: What does heel-and-toe mean?\n\nA: Heel-and-toe is a technique used to do a rev-matched downshift while\n braking. This is normally challenging, because you need the right foot\n for both the brake and throttle. It is called heel-and-toe because you\n use one end of the foot on the brake, and the other on the throttle to\n match revs for the downshift. In many modern cars this is a misnomer;\n often you must use the ball of the foot on the brake and the right side\n on the throttle.\n\n Note that some race car drivers will skip the clutch, and just use the\n left foot on the brake and the right foot on the throttle, accomplishing\n the same thing.\n\nQ: What is double-clutch downshifting?\n\nA: While your right foot is doing the above, your left foot can do one of\n three things: nothing, declutch once, or declutch twice. The reason for\n declutching twice is to match the speeds of the two shafts in the\n transmission to the speed of the engine. This is usually coupled with\n rev-matching, so that while the engine is in neutral and the clutch\n engaged, the throttle is blipped and both shafts of the transmission\n speed up.\n\n The procedure is as follows:\n (0) declutch\n (1) move gearshift lever to neutral\n (2) engage clutch\n (3) match revs\n (4) declutch\n (5) move gearshift lever to next lower gear\n (6) engage clutch\n\n This sounds like a lot of work, but with practice it becomes natural.\n The problem that double-clutching solves is normally the function of the\n synchronizers within the gearbox. In transmissions without synchros or\n with very worn synchros, double-clutching makes it much easier to shift.\n Basically, if you double-clutch well, you are not using the synchros at\n all. This is generally unnecessary on street cars with synchros in good\n condition.\n\nQ: What do the numbers for acceleration from 0-60, 1/4 mile, skidpad, and\n slalom times in the Auto Magazines really mean? May they be compared?\n\nA: In short, 1) not as much as the magazines want you to believe, and\n 2) almost never.\n\n In more detail: the acceleration numbers (0-60mph and 1/4 mile times\n in the US) may be vaguely compared as long as they all come from the\n same source. Testing procedures vary so much from magazine to magazine\n that comparing a Road & Track number to a Car & Driver number is quite\n pointless. Keep in mind, too, that the same variation applies from\n driver to driver on the street; the driver is a major (often *the*\n major) part of the equation.\n\n Skidpads vary, and even if they didn't, skidpad figures are really\n only tests of the stickiness of the stock tires; they change radically\n when tire compounds change. DO NOT make any assumptions about the\n comparative handling of, say, two sports sedans based on skidpad numbers.\n This is not to suggest that skidpads are without value, however. Skidpads\n are an excellent educational tool at driving schools. They are simply\n of limited value in the comparison of anything except tires.\n\n Slalom times are slightly more useful; they test some small parts of the\n automobile's transient response. However, they are also heavily influenced\n by the stock rubber on the car, and they do not test many corners of the\n car's envelope. They DO NOT tell you all you need to know before making\n a buying decision. For example, they don't tell you what the rear end\n of the car will do on a road which suddenly goes off-camber. When a car\n has an adjustable suspension, these tests are usually done in the `sport'\n setting, which may be quite unsuitable for daily driving. The list of\n caveats could go on for page after page.\n\nQ: My buddy claims that wide tires don't make any difference, according\n to his freshman physics textbook, and that you can't ever accelerate\n or corner at more than 1.0G. Does he know what he's talking about?\n\nA: 1) in short: he hasn't got a clue.\n\n 2) in more detail: the equations for friction used in freshman physics\n textbooks presume that the surfaces are smooth, dry and non-deformable,\n none of which properly apply to tire traction except in the case of a\n stone cold tire on dry pavement which is far below its proper operating\n temperature.\n\n Pavement is _never_ smooth; it is always irregular to a greater or lesser\n extent. Tires, which are not really dry and solid (as rubber is a\n substance which in its natural form is liquid, and which has only been\n coerced into a semblance of solidity by chemical magic), deform to match\n the surface of the pavement which a vehicle is traveling over. In a tire\n at operating temperature, grip is actually generated by shear stresses\n inside the deformed rubber, and not by anything even remotely resembling\n friction in the freshman physics sense of the term. The colder a tire\n is relative to its operating temperature, the closer its behaviour will\n be to the traditional concept of friction; if much hotter than the its\n proper operating temperature, the more likely the possibility of some\n part of the tire actually ``reverting'' to liquid, which is mostly like\n to happen deep in the tread, causing characteristic blisters and chunking.\n (This latter, though, is almost completely unlikely to happen in normal\n street driving, so unless you're a competition driver or do a lot of\n high speed track driving, don't worry about it.)\n\n Because tire traction is completely out of the domain of simple friction,\n it does not obey the freshman physics equation at all; thus dragsters\n accelerate at more than 1.0G and race cars corner and brake at more than\n 1.0G. Because simple friction does not apply, it is actually possible\n for different sized contact patches to generate differing amounts of\n grip. An actual analysis of tire behavior would require techniques\n such as Finite Element Analysis, due to the complexity of the mechanism.\n\nMisc. Questions:\n\nQ: What does stand for?\n\nA: Here is a list of some of the names which are commonly asked\n about; be careful in soliciting the meanings of other names\n as misinformation abounds on the net. In particular, NEVER\n ask in rec.humor if you want a useful result.\n\n Saab: Svenska Aeroplan A. B.,\n or The Swedish Airplane Corporation\n\n Alfa: Societa Anonima Lombarda Fabbrica Automobili,\n or The Lombardy Automobile Manufacturing Company\n\n Fiat: Fabbrica Italiana di Automobili Torino,\n or The Italian Automobile Manufacturers of Turin\n\n BMW: Bayerische Motoren Werke,\n or Bavarian Motor Works\n\n MG: Morris Garage\n\n\nQ: Does VW own Porsche?\n\nA: No. Porsche is a publicly held company, controlled by the Porsche and\n Piech families. Porsche has extensive business dealings with VW/Audi,\n which causes some confusion. Since currently Porsche is in some\n financial difficulty, there is a possibility that Mercedes or VW may\n be interested in purchasing the company in the near future, but this\n is only speculation at this time.", "\nYou could do what I do: never go near the stuff! :)\n\n", "\ncondom\n\n\nduring wone of the 500 times i had to go over my accident i\nwas asked if i was wearing \"protection\" my responces was\n\"yes i was wearing a condom\"\n\n", "I don't know about where you are, but here in California false\nrepresentation\nof odometer readings is a criminal felony. If you can substantiate this,\nyou need to report that dealer to the local authorities. You should consult\nwith a lawyer to tell you what civil action you can take as well. Keep in\nmind that you will have to prove that the dealer was aware of the change in\nthe dashboard.", "\n\n\nThe actual hourglass is hollow and is designed to generate a draft,\nexploiting the venturi effect. Around the base of the hourglass is a\nring of water towers. Warm river water, coming from the steam condenser\nin the plant, is sprayed over louvres. The draft being pulled through\nthe tower cools the water by both evaporation and convection. The\nsensible heat extracted from the cooling water is the driving force for\ndraft generation.\n\nIt should be noted that the hourglass-shaped cooling towers are used on\nboth fossile and nuclear plants. It should also be noted that at \nlocations where water is plentiful, the cooling towers are only used part\ntime, when the discharge temperature would exceed some release limit.\nIt was once thought that the warm discharge water was damaging to fish.\nFishermen know that is thoroughly incorrect. Nontheless, stringent,\nusually state, regulations remain in some instances. Since it typically\ntakes 60,000 hp worth of pumping to move the volume of water needed \nto cool a 1000 MWe plant, the cost of using the towers is not insignificant.", "I have seen the existance of electronics solder with a 2% silver\ncontent that seems to have good wetting and fatique reatings.\n Can anyone tell me why it is not used? (silver is not such an expensive\nmetal).\n\n\nAndy", "\nPerhaps instead of this silly argument about what backup lights\nare for, couldn't we agree that they serve the dual purpose of\nletting people behind your car know that you have it in reverse\nand that they can also light up the area behind your car while\nyou're backing up so you can see?\n\nBackup lamps on current models are much brighter than they used\nto be on older cars. Those on my Taurus Wagon are quite bright\nenough to illuminate a good area behind the car, and they're \nMUCH brighter than those on my earlier cars from the 60s and 70s. \n\nInsofar as Vettes having side backup lights, look at a '92 or '93\nmodel (or perhaps a year or two earlier too) and you'll see\nred side marker lamps and white side marker lamps both near the\ncar's hindquarters. Those aren't just white reflectors. ", "re: extended Ka bands.\n\nI recently bought a 2 band detector. You guys must all think I'm\nnuts, right? Well, I did a little research into Ka usage in this\narea and found out that Ka is not currently being used in this state\nas well as surrounding states. Here's how I found out:\n\n- A cop friend who did spend time nailing speeders doesn't even know \n what Ka is. He's heard of K, which is what they use here and I\n explained that Ka is used for photo radar etc.. He then said, yeah,\n \"Ka stands for K automatic\"... duuhh. He then went on to say that\n plans were being made for getting laser guns as far as going high\n tech were concerned, but he didn't know too much.\n\n- My 8 year old 2 band whistler was consistently going off at speed traps,\n even the real sneaky ones.\n\n- When I called the Escort Shop, they confirmed that Ka is not used here\n or in surrounding states. They did claim that Laser was being used\n a lot here, which I was quite skeptical of.\n\nSo in the end, instead of spending a lot of money and/or waiting\nmonths for a state of the art detector, I got a low priced, high\nperformance 2 band Escort 2200. Incidentally its performance is equal\nto their top of the line model in X and K band detection. I know that\nEscort has been surpassed by other brands lately, but I've never fully\nrelied on a detector and I was convinced that the Escorts would be at\nleast quite good, which was good enough for me and my wallet.\n", "I don't want to sell this car, but I need money for college.\n1972 Chevelle Super Sport\nRebuilt 402, four speed, 12 Bolt positrac\nNumbers match\n110,000 original miles\nno rust\nLooks and runs excellent\n$5995 or best offer.\nCall Dennis at (503)343-3759\nor email dennisk@cs.uoregon.edu\n\n", "Hi all,\nI have available to me a set of Metric wheels (came off a Mustang or T-Bird)\nwhich are wearing nearly-bald Michelin TRX 220-55R390 tires. The only place\nI have found these tires is the Tire Rack mailorder place for $121 a pop.\nIs there a cheaper source, or another manufacturer of this size tire? Thanks\nfor any info...please E-Mail responses and I will post a summary if there is\nany interest.\n \n JAS\n \nJIM STRUGLIA C465353@MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU", "\n\nI'll put in a vote for the latter. A bike\ntakes a lot of involvement, and I for one\ndo not want any accident to be my fault.\n\nI remember one artical where the reviewer\ntried the radio on the bike, not having had\none on any of his. He stated that the bike\ntended to go faster when the music was \ngood. I agree, having felt like this my self,\nand this was not a physical imparement, like\ndrinking, just the emotional lift from music.\n\nFirst rule of ecology: There is never only one side-effect.\n\nRide Well-\n", "\n\n I won't argue too much about anything. I am probably one of those that \nthink that we can't have enough safety on the roads. I would gladly \nsacrifice distractions (as you call it), than someone having trouble seeing\ndanger earlier. One saved life justifies more than my lifetime of \"distractions\"\nfor me.\n\n\n\n\n Problem is that, I may just kill the guy. I agree that I would be at fault,\nand I will have my license revoked, why, I might even go to the gas chamber.\nBut the fact still remains that the guy is dead. Someone died because I\nwas too stingy to put on my lights. \n\n\n\n\n The ratio of the probability of fallen trees/rocks on the roads to \noncoming traffic is too low to even be considered. The difference is also\nworking on what we *know* could happen, to what *might* happen.\n\n\n\n\n\n Compared to the number of gallons of gas consumed by those 200 million cars,\nit is miniscule! \n\n Whatever..... 'tis a pity I have to share the same roads with a person\nnot concerned with safety.\n\n-S\nssave@ole.cdac.com\n", "\nExcept for their size, the cooling towers on nuclear power plants\nare vertually identical in construction and operation to cooling\ntowers designed and built in the 1890's (a hundred years ago) for\ncoal fired power plants used for lighting and early electric railways.\n\nBasicly, the cylindrical tower supports a rapid air draft when\nits air is heated by hot water and/or steam circulating thru a network\nof pipes that fill about the lower 1/3 of the tower. To assist cooling\nand the draft, water misters are added that spray cold water over the\nhot pipes. The cold water evaporates, removing the heat faster than\njust air flow from the draft would and the resulting water vapor is\nrapidly carried away by the draft. This produces the clouds frequently\nseen rising out of these towers.\n\nThat slight pinch (maybe 2/3 of the way up the tower) is there because\nit produces a very significant increase in the strength and rate of\nthe air draft produced, compared to a straight cylinder shape.\n\nThe towers are used to recondense the steam in the sealed steam\nsystem of the power plant so that it can be recirculated back to the\nboiler and used again. The wider the temperature difference across\nthe turbines used in the power plant the more effecient they are and\nby recondensing the steam in the cooling towers before sending it\nback to the boilers you maintain a very wide temperature difference\n(sometimes as high as 1000 degrees or more from first stage \"hot\"\nturbine to final stage \"cold\" turbine).\n\n R. Tim Coslet", "\nThe Civic does still come in a 4 door model. My wife and I looked\nquite seriously at the 626, Prizm (Corolla), and Civic, as well as\nsome other cars. Our impressions: all three seemed well built and had\nthe features we wanted - these are similar to the features you want\nexcept for cruise control, and we want a manual transmission and are\nconsidering anti-lock brakes. I also hate automatic seatbelts and we\nboth think having an airbag is a plus. In general, comfort and\nperformance were both significant.\n\nSome specific +'s and -'s are listed below.\n\nMazda 626\n + very comfortable and roomy\n + can theoretically get ABS on DX model, though in practice this is\n hard to find\n + base price for base model includes numerous little things like:\n tach, variable speed wipers, rear defroster, 60/40 split folding rear seat\n - more expensive than many other cars listed below\n\nHonda Civic\n + DX gets significantly better mileage than other cars listed here\n + comfortable front seat\n + adjustable seat belt mounting\n - no ABS without EX model (includes $1000's of other things like a sunroof)\n\nGeo Prizm/Toyota Corolla\n - seats not very comfortable to us (your mileage may vary)\n + adjustable seat belt mounting\n + can get ABS without lots of other extras\n\nSaturn\n + SL2 was quite comfortable, though SL1 less so\n - motorized attack belts\n\nDodge Spirit\n no real outstanding +'s, but seemed generally ok\n - rear seat does not fold down\n\nChevy Corsica\n + comes with ABS standard\n - lower \"would you buy that car again\" and safety ratings in\n Consumer Reports (than first 3 cars above)\n - suspension didn't feel as stiff as the others (this would be a +\n for some)\n\nThe Honda Accord and Toyota Camry were both more expensive than the\n626, and in our minds, not significantly better.\n\nWe probably gave disproportionately low consideration to the \"big 3\",\ndue (a) to my wife's family's general dislike of Chrysler products,\n(b) some unimpressive GM products owned by my parents and a housemate\nof mine (c) the Taurus comes with automatic transmission, I find the\nseat of the Tempo very uncomfortable, and the escort has attack belts\nand no air bag.", "From: bsw@utrc.utc.com (Bruce S. Winters)\nSubject: Re: Warped brake discs on '91 Taurus L\n\n >In the past few years I have owned 3 Mustang GTs and now own a 91 T-Bird\n >SC. They all have had this problem. There was a recall on the T-bird for\n >the brake problem. The Ford dealer replaced the rotors and pads but the\n >rotors warp after about 10K miles. Between this problem and the fit and\n >finish problems on the T-Bird I'll never buy a Ford again.\n\n I just had my rotors on my '92 Taurus GL changed less than 500 miles\n ago and...you guessed it, I'm noticing slight warpage in the left rotor.\n :-( I had a mechanic friend of mine look at it and he said that there is a\n high spot on the rotor that is causing the problem. This is a brand new\n rotor bought from a Ford Dealership. Can't they even produce a brand new\n rotor that is not warped? I'm currently negotiating with them to swap it\n out for a new rotor.\n\n This is my first American build car and I'm not overly impressed.\n\n Tony\n--", "\n\n\nNot alone at all. My old 83 Accord (now in the hands of a sibling) has a much\nbetter engagement of the clutch. Even the old 84 Civic we keep as a beater \nfeels better in this aspect. Note that these are cars with 250,000 kms and\n140,000 kms respectively. My 90 Prelude blows both of them away in every \nrespect except smooth clutch engagement. Of course the Kawasaki is the best\nof the bunch but I need more than 2 wheels most of the time.\n\nThe Prelude has had a dud clutch from day 1, and after three years and 67,000\nkms is no better. Best of luck and feel free to add this to your collection.", "\nI don't understand the fascination with vent windows. They create a tremendous \nturbulence and noise that makes even a simple connversation impossible at \nspeeds above 40mph. The current flow-throuh ventilation, if designed right, \nare far more superior.", "\n$ [...]\n$ \tActually, you want a Checker Special if you can find one.\n\n$ \tGood luck. I'm sorry I let mine go...\n\nI grew up in New York City so I rode in many Checker cabs. The jump\nseats were fun as a kid. Although the cars were roomy -- a good trait\nfor a taxi -- they had a design flaw that I don't understand they never\nfixed: the rear passengers tended to fall out of their seats when the\ndriver braked. I wouldn't want to take a long ride in the back seat of\none of these vehicles. Why did you like yours? I never drove one, so\nI have to ask.", " \n\nMy fiancee' and I do quite a bit of sporty riding 2-up. I'll tell you \nwhat we've found and the systems we've worked out.\n\n- On starts, accelerate MUCH slower than usual. It's tough for the rider\nto judge how scary fast acceleration is, because we're holding onto something\nand leaning forward. Remember this.\n\n- On turns, have her lean forward and at the same angle as you (normally \nthis means she isn't leaning at all.) It's very disconcerting to be leaned\nover and have your passenger leaning so that they're sitting straight up.\nMuch balance is lost and this can be dangerous.\n\n- On slowing and stopping, do so MUCH slower than usual. Again, it's tough \nfor the rider to judge how scary fast deceleration is, because we're holding \nonto something and leaning forward. However, you'll figure it out fast\nbecause braking too fast will shove the passenger forward into you, which \nshoves you into the tank at an inopportune location.\n\n- Generally, have the passenger keep her knees against you and the bike, not \nout wide. This helps balance and gives her somegrip.\n\n- When you passenger is in fear, she will squeeze her knees against you.\nNormally this means \"slow down, and do it now!\". \n\n\n\nWe only have a couple signals. \"Slow down\" is her either tapping me on \nthe back, or slapping my helmet with all her might. Depends on the urgency\nof the matter :-)\n\n\"Turn here\" is done by her pointing in the direction of an exit. This is\nalso the sign for \"cool! Look at that.\" \"I hafta pee\" is the same sign\nas \"turn here\". \"I'm hungry\" is the same sign. \"Go faster\" is usually\ndone by her jumping up and down on her pegs in glee. I usually see \"slow\ndown\" more often than \"go faster\".\n \n\nThe best thing to do before the ride is to talk to a riding buddy, and \npillion on his or her bike. It's incredibly frustrating, because you're \nin almost no control. Now, multiply that feeling times ten, because\nyou as a rider know what your bike will do, and your passenger will likely\nfeel you're about to scrape hard parts all the time, or lock up the brakes\nat any moment, or go careening off the edge of a volcanic mountain, etc. \nPillioning yourself is good training to take somebody on your pillion pad.\n\nAlso, remember that it's much more draining and tiring to ride 2-up\nthan by yourself, because you're concentrating on much more, and\n\"in the Zen of the moment\" less. Remember this.\n\n----------------------------------------------------\n Pat Loughery [patlo@microsoft.com] Seattle, WA\n\t DoD #393, AMA, VME, DIOC, 1KSI=2.53\n '91 VFR750F, '91 Nighthawk 750, '82 Seca 650 Turbo\n\t\t^^^ For Sale", "\nFord had an anemic mid-sized car by that name back in the last decade.\nI rented one once. That car would ruin the name \"Zephyr\" for any other\nuse.\n\nRod", "[ Article crossposted from sdnet.forsale,rec.motocycle ]\n[ Author was Michael James ]\n[ Posted on 21 Apr 1993 15:39:50 GMT ]\n\n\nI must sell my motorcycle...:( it is a '83 GR650, Tempter.\nIt has 20K miles and runs well. \nIncludes a cover and tank bag..\n\nI'm asking $700 for it all. \n\nE-mail me if you want to take a look at it.\n\n--\n******************************************************************************** Michael James james@mintaka.sdsu.edu \n PA-128\t\t\t \t594-2469 \n \t\t\t\t\t294-9845(H)\t\n********************************************************************************\n", "\n\nI did it once with a biker-girlfriend in the\ncar, and she told me that I was stupid, the\nrider wouldn't know why I was waving.\n\n...She's long gone...\n\n\nOne.\n", "\n\n\n\nSomeone once sold heated motorcycle grips via mail order. The were \naftermarket replacement grips that had the heating elements mlded into the \ngrip itself. Wires ran outside of the bars, from the grips to a switch and \nfinaly the battery. Cycle Magazine tested them YEARS ago and liked them. \nDunno if they are still made. Might check with the snowmobile racers.\n\n ----===== DoD #8177 = Technician(Dr. Speed) .NOT. Student =====----", "If I'm going to drive on a public road then I need a\nspeedometer, and an odometer helps for navigation.\n \nMy 1965 Chevy has a bare minimum: Engine-temp and\nOil-press warning lights and a fuel gauge. \n\nMy 1983 VW has tach, water-temp, voltmeter \nand oil-temp gauges. \n \nIf I had a turbo car, I'd want a vacuum manifold/boost\ngauge. An oil pressure gauge is a nice, reassuring\ngauge to look at. If my car was air cooled, then I\nwould substitute a cyl-head-temp gauge for the water-temp\ngauge.\n \nA few years ago, I looked at the Audi Quattro Si Coupe\nthat Bobby Unser used to win the 1986 Pikes Peak Hill Climb.\nThe gauge layout, from left to right, top to bottom was:\n \n----------------------------------\n \nspeedometer\n \n----------------------------------\n \nfuel tranny\npress temp\n \n----------------------------------\n \ndifferential water\ntemp temp\n \n----------------------------------\n \nbig orange tach\noil-press\nwarning light\n \n----------------------------------\n \noil-temp boost\n \n----------------------------------\n \noil-press\n \n---------------------------------- ", "I do.\nYesterday.\n\nSeriously, Countess Ada of Lovelace gets the credit. She first used\nit in the late 80s. Her bike: the spokeless wonder.\n\n\nJack Waters II\nDoD#1919", "\nOH yes they do! but considering i never wash my BMW (unless i need\nto work on it) i never get cuts untill the tools come out.....\naltho the best scar (now faded) was from the exhaust piper,\nwhile try to change the oil, after overheating the engine (watch\nout for idiot drivers that won't let you pass in the mountains\nwhen you have a rider, case of oil (it was on sale), and case of \nbeer), with a drain bolt that decided to seize.\n\njust how does everyone else clean out the area under the transmission\non a BMW R bike? they only way i have found is to remove the\nengine and transmission. that and the clutch arm are impossible to\nclean (which is wear one of the EC (s&m) are located).\n", "Don't worry about this -- they'll drop you like a hot potato after you do\n make a claim. They'll just make filing the claim a pain, but it will end\n when they leave you in the lurch.\n\nMore than that. GEICO funded the company that developed LIDAR. When locals \n showed a reluctance to BUY the units, GEICO started giving them away. I\n know they've given units to the Florida Highway Patrol, County Sheriff's a\n and some local governments.\nThe real question is why? This is the hook. GEICO, and other Ins. Co.s can\n tell which drivers represent risk. This is a determination they can make\n AFTER YOU receive a speeding ticket from one of GEICO's LIDAR units. Most\n drivers do not represent increased risk even after a ticket or two, but \n this gives them the opportunity to RAISE RATES FOR EQUAL RISK. It's called\n extra profits. They also know how silly the NSL is, and how it is almost\n universally ignored. Driving in excess of the NSL gets you a ticket, an\n increase in your rates, points on your license --- but it doesn't make you\n a riskier driver to insure.\nLike the sound of this? Like the people who thought up the scheme? Go GEICO!", "Just a few comments about the feasability of zipping up a bunch of miles\non your electronic odometer with an oscillator....\n\n I wouldn't expect to be able to do this. Not because the engineers at BMW are\nputting in anti-fraud logic, but just because an automobile is a noisy, hostile\nenvironment for electronics, and I would expect the software to be conservative.\n\n If I were to design a microprocessor-based odometer/speedometer program,\nit would have the following features ( just off the top of my head ):\n\n * Debouncing/deglitching ( Is this a real pulse, or just a glitch? )\n * Smoothing: The rate-of-change of speed cannot be too high:\n This is a car, not an electron.\n * Top speed limit: Anything above 200MPH is ridiculous: must be\n electrical noise or contact bounce\n\n As for getting in and presetting the pins: if this is the circuit board out of\na BMW dashboard, I seem to remember a single big chip with lotsa pins in the\nmiddle of the card. Good luck getting at the counter :-).\n\n I wouldn't expect a high input frequency to damage the meter: remember, it's\nprobably damped so it can't move too fast, and is probably protected. After all,\na car is an extremely hostile place for delicate electronics; there used to be an\napp note in the National Semiconductor Linear Databook that went into this\nin good detail.\n\n - Jerry Kaidor ( tr2!jerry@dragoman.com, jkaidor@synoptics.com )\n", "As I won't be able to make the Joust this summer (Job related time \nconflict :'^{ ), I plan instead on going to the Rider Rally in \nKnoxville.\n\nI'll be leaving from Chicago. and generally plan on going down along\nthe Indiana/Illinois border into Kentucky and then Tennessee. I would \nbe very interested in hearing suggestions of roads/routes/areas that \nyou would consider \"must ride\" while on the way to Knoxville.\n\nI can leave as early as 5/22 and need to arrive in Knoxville by 6PM\non 5/25. That leaves me a pretty good stretch of time to explore on \nthe way.\n\nBy the way if anyone else is going, and would like to partner for the \nride down, let me know. I'll be heading east afterward to visit family, \nbut sure don't mind company on the ride down to the Rally. Depending on \nweather et al. my plan is motelling/tenting thru the trip.\n\nFrom the Rally I'll be heading up the Blue Ridge Parkway, then jogging\ninto West Va (I-77) to run up 219 -> Marlington, 28 -> Petersburg, \n55E -> I-81/I-66E. After this point the route is presently undetermined\ninto Pennsylvania, New York?, and back to Chicago (by 6/6). Suggestions \nfor these areas would be of great interest also.\n\nMany thanks for your ideas,\n\nEnjoy,\n", "\nWhen your helmetted nogin hits an immoveabe object, there are only four things\nto dissipate the energy: the immoveable object, the helmet shell, the helmet\nliner, the rider's head, the rider's ego (ok, five). Assuming that the helmet/\nhead assembly takes the same impact, if the shell cracks in one case, then in\nthe other the liner must be dented, or the head gets jiggled. If it's the\nthe liner that's dented, the helmet is just as toast as if the shell were\ncracked, it won't absorb energy form an impact in that area. If it's the head\nthat's getting jiggled, maybe the new gear isn't of as high quality after all?", "[this is posted for a friend, please reply to dschick@holonet.net]\n\n1990 BMW K75RT FOR SALE", "\n\n > I need help with my '85 ZX900A, I put Supertrapp slip-on's on it and\n > had the carbs re-jetted to match a set of K&N filters that replaced\n > the stock airbox. Now I have a huge flat spot in the carburation at\n > about 5 thousand RPM in most any gear. This is especially frustrating\n > on the highway, the bike likes to cruise at about 80mph which happens\n > to be 5,0000 RPM in sixth gear. I've had it \"tuned\" and this doesn't\n > seem to help. I am thinking about new carbs or the injection system\n > from a GPz 1100. Does anyone have any suggestions for a fix besides\n > restoring it to stock?\n > Starr@kuhub.ukans.cc.edu\t the brain dead.\" -Ted Nugent\n\nIt sound like to me that your carbs are not jetted properly.\nIf you did it yourself, take it to a shop and get it done right.\nIf a shop did it, get your money back, and go to another shop.\n-- ", "\nIF you can remember to tuck properly, the bits that are going to take most \npunishment with the gear you have will probably be your feet, then hips and \nknees. Get boots then trousers. The gloves come last, as long as you've the \nself control to pull your arms in when you tuck. If not, get good gloves \nfirst - Hands are VERY easily wrecked if you put one down to steady your \nfall at 70mph!! The other bits heal easier.\n\nOnce you are fully covered, you no longer tuck, just lie back and enjoy the \nride.", "\n\tMy agent is Daniel Sui, and he's done quite a good job\n\tfor me. You might check with him, as he's located in San\n\tFrancisco and specializes in bike insurance:\n\n\t\tDaniel Sui Insurance\n\t\t338 Balboa Street\n\t\tSan Francisco, CA 94118\n\t\t1-415-752-3157\n\n\t\t\t\t\tMichael\n\n", "\n\nI've never seen a speedometer-reading model. Are you sure? Who makes\nthem? Consider the difficulty of reading the speedo on various makes\nof cars in use... I've seen single beam moving-mode and split beam\nmoving-mode.\n\n-- \n--------------------------------------------------------------------\n Dave Medin\t\t\tPhone:\t(205) 730-3169 (w)\n SSD--Networking\t\t\t\t(205) 837-1174 (h)\n Intergraph Corp.\n M/S GD3004 \t\tInternet: dtmedin@catbyte.b30.ingr.com\n Huntsville, AL 35894\t\tUUCP: ...uunet!ingr!b30!catbyte!dtmedin\n\n ******* Everywhere You Look (at least around my office) *******", "\n\nIs that the number of \"left\" legs, or both left and right?", "It seems that there are more and more \"bands\" available for\npolice radar each month. I have recently purchased (within\nthe last 8 months) the BEL 966STW. While it is not a perfect\ndetector by any means, it does do the job fairly well. \n\nNow, however, I pick up a car magazine at the airport and\nread about this Super Ka Wideband which is a superset of\nthe Ka Wideband that this latest generation of detectors\nwas touted as covering. \n\nSo now BEL has a NEW series of detectors out that cover all\nthe usual bands (X, K, Ka photo, Ka wideband) as well as the\nnew Super Ka wideband. \n\nJust as there comes a point of diminishing returns when chasing\nincreased PC computing power with faster and faster CPUs (for\nthe average home consumer, at least), it seems that there is\nnow the same concern with radar detectors. Does it make sense\nto upgrade just 8 months after purchasing my \"new\" detector?\nIs Valentine upgrading their equipment? If so, it might be \nworth it for me to upgrade to the Valentine. I was in the \nmarket for a Valentine when I purchased the BEL but the\n3-4 month waiting time was just too much for me since I had\ninadequate protection with my Passport. Life was much simpler\nwhen there was just X and K band and Escort has the best\nequipment on the market and there was no need to continuously\nshop for a new detector. I hope that the flood of new radar \nbands ceases with this new Super Wideband business.\n\n", "Well, here goes. After lurking for a LONG time, I'll announce myself. Yes, I'm\nthe enemy. The enemy that also happens to ride an \"arrest me red\" 90 VFR. \n Bike history: (as if this endears me to the DoD)\n 79 Honda XL 175 \"High School\"\n 85 Kawasaki KLR 600\n 84 Honda V65 Sabre \"Cornering by Committee\"\n 88 Honda Hawk GT \"Proctologists' designed this bike\"\n 90 VFR\n\n I'll entertain questions but my answers will reflect Georgia law and may not \n apply in your state. \n \n P.S. Anyone got a Nomex suit for sale?", "\nAnd DoDers are easily recognized by their own special wave.\nPay attention and I'll tell you how to do it. Hold your left hand out\nin front of you, fingers straight but apart - like a vase. You may also\nuse your right hand if you have a throttle lock or are stopped. Bring\nyour fingertips and thumb together, touch, and open back to the starting\nposition. While you are doing this, move your hand slowly to the left.\nDo it gracefully and with a waving motion. You are now imitating a\nsquid propelling itself about underwater probably in search of food,\ndrink, squids of the appropriate sexual orientation, or other squids to\ngo riding with.\n", "-->\n-->What, a dog weighs 150lb maybe, at max? You can't handle it?\n-->\n-->You have, I presume, thumbs? Grapple with it and tear it's head\n-->off!\n-->\n-->Sheesh, even a trained attack dog is no match for a human,\n-->we have *all* the advantages.\n-->\n--\n--This was a recent discussion on rec.martial-arts. Humans definitely don't\n--have all the advantages. Dogs are deceptively strong and often bred for\n--fighting of one sort or another.\n\n--Ed\n--DoD #1110\n\nBeing related to former trainers, I have come to know that humans do have all the\nadvantages (well, at least one anyway). It is a little known fact that a dog will\ninvoluntarily regurgitate and release an object that is too large to swallow. I\nwas told that if I were ever attacked by a dog I should ball my hand in a fist and\nforce it down the dog's throat. The dog would naturally gag and release, and become\nmomentarily disoriented. This commonly happens to humans when we go to a doctor and\nhave our throats examined ( Proof Positive ). In the time during the dog's\ndisorientation, the next move would be to wrap an arm about the dog throat in a \nchoke hold manner and constrict with all your might until the dog lapses into\nunconsciousness ( from lack of oxygen and halting blood flow ). Finally, run like\nthe wind to get away from the local area should the dog get up again and be really\npissed.\n\nOOOOOOOpsssss. For a second there I thought I was in rec.beatthelivingcrapoutofadog\nand not rec.motorcycles.\n\nTill next time.", "Do any Honda gurus know if I can replace the \nthe front sprocket on my 1979 Honda CB750K with a slightly larger one?\n(I see this as being preferable to reducing the size of the rear one)\n\nJust wanting ride at a more relaxed RPM.", "Old Nick (the little devil!) wibbles:-\n%\n% Tsk, tsk, tsk. Another newbie bites the dust, eh? They'll learn.\n%\n Newbie? Eh? Slap yer' credentials on the table, Pete. That'll show\n him!\n\n%\n% I'm terribly sorry.\n%\n And so you damned well should be... young whipper-snapper! It's wet\n kippers at ten paces if there's any repeat of this sort of thing!\n\n Now, in keeping with the grand tradition of wreck.moto, let's mutate!\n Take your partners by the hand...\n\n On Tuesday morning I spent a couple of hours (when I -should- have been\n working) with a torch, brazing bits of scrap metal over the biggest\n holes in Yamadog's exhaust pipes (s'mazin' what you can do with a\n couple of AA cells and a three-volt bulb!). I stuck some \"gun-gum\"\n into the smaller holes and bunged the pipes back onto the bike.\n\n So, last night I'm on the way home when lo' an' bloody behold, the\n sodding thing starts blowing again. I check it out and the gas is\n escaping from around the clamp holding the number two pipe into the\n port. As far as I can see (it being somewhat \"hole of Calcutta\" at the\n time!), the nuts are still there (stop that bloody sniggering, you at\n the back!), but the pipe is a bit loose.\n\n This morning I go out to the bike and pull out the socket-set to\n tighten up me' nuts (somebody give that spotty kid at the back a good\n slap round the back of the head!), and lo' an' bloody behold\n a-bloody-gen, I find that the outer skin of the pipe has separated from\n the inner sleeve right at the clamp-mating bevel. So, I stuff in a bit\n of baked-beanz can and a bit more of Mr Holts' very best \"gun-gum\" and\n come to work (late again!) so that I can ask of the oracle... Will a\n brazed joint hold that close to the exhaust port? Anybody tried it?\n\n Oh, and if anybody can tell me what the differences are between a 205\n and a 207 brazing rod (made by \"Gaz\" [Yup! the camping folks.\n Surprised the marmalade outa' me, too!] in that place just off the Isle\n of Wight) I'd be eternally grateful (twenty-sodding-quid for two rods\n and I don't even know what I'm buying. Bloody kanji!).\n\n-- \n ------------------------------------------------------------------------\n | John Little - gaijin@Japan.Sun.COM - Sun Microsystems. Atsugi, Japan | ", "\n\tOn a completely different tack, what was the eventual outcome of\nBabe vs. the Bad-Mouthed Biker?\n\nLater,", "Well, just got all the parts replaced that needed replced\n(sprokets+chain) and notice that engine still taps like it did before.\nAll our local 'experts' say it's the tappits that need some adjusting so\nI am soon to attempt that. I would like any advice anyone had. I do\nnot have a shop manual but have read about the procedure in Chiltons and\nin a few other places. Is there anything I need to be particularaly\ncarful of? Any problems anyone else has encountered?\n\nI ride a 1981 Yamaha Exciter 250cc (stop laughing, it's tiny, but it's\nshiny)\n", "\n\n Before the S4 became the S4 it was called the 200 turbo quattro 20v.\n This model did come in a wagon, a very quick wagon. Very rare also.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t Mike Sylvester Umass\n\nBeing a satisfied Audi owner (-90 100 turbo quattro. my 4:th Audi) I\nget the free VAG magazine. The latest issue presented a new S4 Avant\n(wagon) with a 4.2 litre V8. I'd like one of these ;-)\n\nBtw, this is my second quattro and my third turbo and I must say that\neven in the summer, with dry roads, the quattros give so much extra in\nroad holding and balance that I hope I can afford them always.\n\nThomas", " I also experience this kinda problem in my 89 BMW 318. During cold\nstart ups, the clutch seems to be sticky and everytime i drive out, for\nabout 5km, the clutch seems to stick onto somewhere that if i depress\nthe clutch, the whole chassis moves along. But after preheating, it\nbecomes smooth again. I think that your suggestion of being some\nhumudity is right but there should be some remedy. I also found out that\nmy clutch is already thin but still alright for a couple grand more!\n\n", "Does anyone know of any type of acceleration sensor that has\nan electrical output of any sort? It would only have to sense\nacceleration in one direction.\n\nThanx,\n\nMike\n\n-- ", "\n Deltabox (tm) is a registered trademark of Yamaha, used to describe\ntheir aluminum perimeter frame design, used on the FZR400 and FZR1000.\nIn cross-section, it has a five-sided appearance, so it probably really\nshould be called a \"Pentabox\".\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------", "\nSporadically, yes. It seems to flicker, or change shape into snow\nbriefly. Not enough to impair functionality, just call attention to\nDiamond's professional sloppiness.\n\nRob\n", "Thanks to everyone who responded to my Honda Accord break question.\nIt does seem that the master cylinder is bad. I will have my\nmechanic double check and be sure it isn't something simpler\nand cheaper first, but from your responses it sounds like it\nis very likely to be the master cylinder.\n\nThanks everyone!!", " ^^^^^^^^^^ \n\n\n\tWell, Dale, I'd say offhand \"Keel-hauling\" would work pretty\nwell...we haven't had a good \"keel-hauling\" in a long time... (Sorry, it came up in a conversation yesterday and, well, I just love that phrase...)\n\tOr maybe just ask for folks to flood the guys mailbox with\nthe FAQ for net-etiquitte...sort of poetic justice for all the junk mail\nhe was trying to generate anyway...\n\nTom T", "Maybe you had accidentally sealed in some water? I cleaned my chain\nthoroughly, took it on a short ride to dry it off and heat it up\na bit, and the paraffin sank deep into the rollers and formed a good\nseal on the outside. No rust, but then again I live in Tucson!", "My Kawasaki KZ 750 L4 has 2-3 millimetres of play on the gearchange\npedal axle, in other words, I can move the axle sideways & up-and-down\nfor few millimetres to each direction. This doesn't bother me when\nriding, but I guess fixing it wouldn't hurt. Last summer I took the\nbike to a shop to have the valves adjusted, and the mechanic mentioned\nthat it should be an easy job. All I would have to do is to remove the\nfront sprocket cover and replace a bushing or a seal that I would find\nthere. Well, upon a closer inspection I discovered that the gearchange\naxle doesn't even run through the sprocket cover. It seems that, in\naddition to removing the cover, I would have at least to remove the\nsprocket and then the cover that is behind the sprocket.\n\nQuestion : Would removing this small cover from the left side of the\nengine enable me to lay my hands on that bushing/seal (Don't know the\nexact term in english, sorry) ?\n\nQuestion : Has anybody done this disassembly job for this or some\nother purpose ? Does the oil, for example, stay inside the engine ?\n\nThanks !", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nI remember this happening on the I-75 through Michigan and Ohio several\nyears back. A group of guys in an old beater would rear end a car,\nusually out of state or Canadians. You stop and they smack you with a BB\nbat. At least they didn't kill you for the sake of a car.\nI think the cops put out decoys and this calmed down for a while.", "\neven a minivan based on viper running gear?", "We are working on gas-solid adsorption air-con system for auto applications.\nIn this kind of system, the energy for regenerating the adsorbent is from \nthe exhaust gas. Anyone interested in this mail email me or follow up this\nthread, we may have a discussion on prospects of this technology.\n\nMax \n", "One thing that everyone is forgetting in this argument\nover the pricing of the SC1 vs. the Japanese cars is\nthe Saturns \"no-dicker sticker\". This makes the Saturn's\nprice low in comparison to the inflated base prices of\nthe Japanese competition on paper, but in reality, one\ncould dicker several hundred dollars off the price of\nthe Japanese cars.\n\nAdmittedly, though, here in Canada, at least, the SC2 \nis in the same price class as the Civic Si, not the\nSC1.", "\nI've always heard them referred to \"horizontally opposed\"...\n\nJoe\n", "\nActually, I've heard that some M1 Abrams tank commanders take the \ngoverners off their turbine engines, and can acheive 90MPH on a\npaved road. Never seen it myself, but I believe it...\n\n\n[stuff deleted]\n\n\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n ___ \n / _ \\ '85 Mustang GT Bob Pitas\n / /USH 14.13 @ 99.8 bpita@ctp.com\n / /| \\ Up at NED, Epping, NH (Cambridge, MA)\n\n \"\" - Geddy Lee (in YYZ)\nDisclaimer: These opinions are mine, obviously, since they end with my .sig!", "\n Actually, fossil fuel plants run hotter than the usual \nboiling-water reactor nuclear plants. (There's a gripe in the industry\nthat nuclear power uses 1900 vintage steam technology). So it's\nmore important in nuclear plants to get the cold end of the system\nas cold as possible. Hence big cooling towers. \n\n Oil and gas fired steam plants also have condensers, but they\nusually are sized to get the steam back into hot water, not most of the\nway down to ambient. Some plants do cool the condensers with water,\nrather than air; as one Canadian official, asked about \"thermal \npollution\" de-icing a river, said, \"Up here, we view heat as a resource\". \n\n Everybody runs closed-cycle boilers. The water used is \npurified of solids, which otherwise crud up the boiler plumbing when\nthe water boils. Purifying water for boiler use is a bigger job than \ncooling it, so the boiler water is recycled.", "\nI really didn't mean to imply that my Ninja was any better than a Duc. \nI have to talked to a few Duc owners (750SS owners in particular) who\nsay that the power is something less than overwhelming. That said,\nI would love to have a 900SS. I guess I should have been a bit more\nspecific. If you have something that weighs that same as the 750, go \nfor the extra cubes. \n\nI think that fact that I own a GTV-6 shows that I don't care about maximum\npower (it's no slug though) to the exclusion of everything else. The note \nand the handling are more important to me. I just bought a Ninja because I \ncouldn't afford a Duc.\n\nDidn't mean to ruffle any feathers, I'll probably be getting a 900SS next\nyear...\n\n- Mark\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\nMark S. Burnham (markb@wc.novell.com) AMA#668966 DoD#0747 \nAlfa Romeo GTV-6 '90 Ninja 750", "\n\nI think you have to go a little further back.\nThis opinion comes from riding CB750's GS1000's KZ1300's and a V-Max.\nI find no enjoyment in riding a V-Max fast on a twisty road.", "I had exactly the same problem with a 1981 Horizon. Third gear would\njust disengage. Engine would rev up. Kind of disconcerting.\n\nI sold that car quite a few years back but the memory of that tranny\nsticks with me. It also had a clutch chatter in first that the dealer\ncould not fix. If the lemon law had been in place then, that car\nwould have been covered.\n\nI have had several Jap cars since then (figuring the Horizon was my\ncontribution to the American Auto Companies), and have never seen any\nbad behavior with the exception of a Toyota Tercel with a bit of\nclutch chatter that they did fix on the first try.\n\nAnyway, from that day forward, I have sworn that I would never\npurchase another American car with a standard. American manufacturers\ndon't have a clue on how to manufacture five speed transmissions and\nhave been doing the automatics much longer and on many more cars.\nHowever, I hate automatics, so I am still buying Jap cars.\n\nNot sure this is any help, but other cars do this too.\n\nCheers, Larry\n--\n @@ Larry Rogers *\n @@@ larry_rogers@dg.com * Big Brother\n @@@ &&& larry@boris.webo.dg.com * is Watching\n @@ && Data General 508-870-8441 * \n\nThe opinions contained herein are my own, and do not reflect the\nopinions of Data General or anyone else, but they should.", "Since we're on the subject of brakes.... does anyone know why a 4WD Vauxhall/\nOpel disengages drive to the rear wheels when the brakes are applied? Vauxhall\nboast about how the car is more stable in fwd mode during braking than in 4wd\nmode.... how is this so? \n\t\t\t\t\t\t...Shaz...\n", "\n\nWhat, a dog weighs 150lb maybe, at max? You can't handle it?\n\nYou have, I presume, thumbs? Grapple with it and tear it's head\noff!\n\nSheesh, even a trained attack dog is no match for a human,\nwe have *all* the advantages.\n\nRegards, Charles\nDoD0.001\nRZ350", "This is a despicable LIE! It was sunny on 3rd July 1958 from 11.23am\nto 11 37am. I made a note of it. Diaries are never wrong.\n\n\n\nDo you, by any chance ride a Harley? (just a feeling...) How is your \nneck? Calamine lotion is good, I'm told.\n\nI am getting bored with winding up Americans. Its like bombing fish\nin a barrel. \n\nHaaaaaaaaaaave a Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiice Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay", "\n\n\nAnd unless I am mistaken (I screwed up my borrowed VCR and got the first 2\nminutes :-), the Corrado SLC was awarded AJAC's Sports (Sporty?) Car of the\nYear..\n\nMattias\n", "Hey now,\n\n I'm having the roughest time getting a company to cover\nmy new bike. Here are some details about her and me:\n\nI'm:\n\n single\n 23\n riding with a clean record\n a homeowner\n a 'new' rider accoring to most companies\n not a member of MSF or AMA yet \n\n\n\n She's:\n \n a '92 CBR600F2\n got 150 miles\n got temp plates still\n one screamin' bitch of a ride...\n\n\n Can you get me some ideas? We can take them to private\nemail to lower the noise on the net.\n\n mrr3@po.cwru.edu is a good mail address. I need to\nhear something soon so I can keep her on the road...\n\n Thanks in advance,\n Mark", "\nI have owned my Sprint from the beginning and that sensor light comes on every\n30K to let you know it's time for a check up. When that light goes on, I just\ntake it to the delaer tell them \"It's that time\" and they work on it for 4 hou\nand you pay $5 for parts and $100 for labor. (Ahh...what they get for labor)\nI currently have about 95K on my Sprint and of all the times I took it in for\nservice, I never say on the payment sheet anything about the replacement of the\nOxygen sensor. What the heck is an Oxygen sensor? As far an I know of, I have\nnever had that thing replaced in my car and the car is purring like a kitten.\nNow, I don't have a/c (Mother Nature does that for me :-) ) and that might have\nsomething to do with it, but I still never heard of an Oxygen sensor. The only\nMAJOR service job I have had on my car (besides getting the tires replaced\nif you want to call that a service job) was getting the Rotor, Distributor and\nGasket replaced. And that was all done within the past 2 months. \n\nWhat I do at 30K is have a good tune-up, let them replace what ever they need\nto, pay the bill (about $125) and go home and don't worry about the car for\nanother 30K. Oh, I just remembered something. If that little sensor light\nbothers you, in the fuse box right below the turn-signal lever up against\nthe dash, there is a swith on the right side. Flip that switch and the light\nwill go off. I do that so that little light won't annoy me. If you can't\nfind it, look it up in the car manuel. I hope that I have helped a little\nand good luck with the _Oxygen sensor_?\n\n\t\t\t\t- Thomas -", "********* 1990 Integra LS for Sale *********\n\n5 speed, sunroof, rear spoiler, new tires\n59.7K miles\n\n$ 7950 or best offer.\n\ncall 908-949-0878\n 908-938-4101\n\nemail att!hotsoup!peng", "\n\tIs there no JUSTICE?!\n\n\tIf I lost my leg when I was 19, and had to give up motorcycling\n(assuming David didn't know that it can be done one-legged,) I too would want\nto get swamped.... maybe even for ten years! I'll admit, I'd probably prefer\nhomebrew to pubbrew, but still...\n\n\tJudge Coterill is in some serious trouble, I can tell you that. Any\nchance you can get to him and convince him his ruling was backward, Nick?\n\n\tPerhaps the lad deserved something for starting a brawl (bad form...\nhorribly bad form,) but for getting drunk? That, I thought, was ones natural\nborn right! And for spending his own money? My goodness, who cares what one\ndoes with one's own moolah, even if one spends it recklessly?\n\n\tI'm ashamed of humanity.", "%\n% Request for opinions:\t\n%\n% Which is better - a one-piece Aerostitch or a two-piece Aerostitch?\n%\n\n\nLike most everyone else, I ended up getting two different sizes for\nthe top and bottom. My top is a 46L and the bottom is a 48L. For the\nbottom, the waist is far too large, but the thighs fit just right (the\n46 had a better waist, but cut off the circulation in my legs, I have\nlarge, muscular thighs, and no, I didn't use the thighmaster to get\nthem :-). The jacket fits me ok in the chest, slightly snug at the\nwaist, and too small in the arms. I can't imagine finding a one-piece\nsize that would have fit correctly, as even the 2 piece has it's\nproblems (strange, since my V-Pilot jacket fits great all over, and\nwhen I tried the matching pants, they fit like a glove as well).\n\nI can only assume the models Aero Design uses to design its suits are\nin some way different from us real folks.\n\nAlso, even though it's related to convienience, you look pretty damn\nwierd walking around with the tops and bottoms while running errands.\nI've gotten some really suspicious looks, and sweated a lot while in a\nstore wearing the whole suit, since you can't fit the top and bottom\nin any motorcycle storage device yet devised (except the trunk in my\nsidecar rig :-). With the two piece, I unzip the pants (I generally\nleave the two pieces zipped together, primarily because the pants fall\ndown unless I pull the cheesy elastic belt-type band real tight),\nstuff them in one of my spacious BMW saddlebags (the pants just fit),\nand run errands just wearing the jacket. Actually, if I know I'll be\nrunning errands, I just wear my V-Pilot jacket, but that's just me...\n\nAs far as crash protection, I'd say that both suits are probably\nequal. It seems that for weather protection, if anything the 2 piece\nprovides a little more because of the jacket overlapping the pants by\n3 inches. The 2 piece is probably a little less comfortable around\nthe waist, just because of the extra layer of stuff, but maybe not.\n\nSo I'd have to vote for the two piece. Despite the slightly odd fit,\nI still find the suit the most versatile piece of riding clothing I\nown. Wouldn't go long distance without it.\n\nKen Wallich \nken@wallich.com ~ kmw@al.org ~ [...]decwrl!vixie!amber!ken", "\t\t\t ^^\n\t\t\t ||\n\t\t New Technology\n\n\t\t\t || \n\t\t\t Cycle eXperimental\n\t\t\t \n\nGot this from a mechanic at Al Lamb's Honda!\n\nAT", "I still can't understand all the hype about the Impalla SS, it STILL has\nthe ugly Caprice body (Orca on wheels). The Caprice was the worst new\nbody style to come out of Detroit EVER! Now just because the LT1 engine\nand a few suspension tweeks are being added.\n\nIts STILL UGLY, its STILL a BARGE. GM's answer to everything is \"throw in\na V8 and someone will buy it.\" Or \"add some plastic ground affects\nand a few stickers and call it a GT, GTZ or SS, and someone will buy it.\"\n\nIMHO GM needs to scrap the Caprice body COMPLETELY and start over with a\nBLANK sheet of paper. No minor modification (wheel well treatments, tail\namp modification, or nose re-design or even the LT1 engine) will help\nthe existing Caprice.", "\nI'll post a summary after I get enough information. I'll include\ntips like \"how to know when the monkey is pulling your leg\". Shouldn't\nmonkey's have to be bonded and insured before they work on bikes?\n\nJack Waters II\nDoD#1919", "Anyone, \n\n I am a serious motorcycle enthusiast without a motorcycle, and to\nput it bluntly, it sucks. I really would like some advice on what would\nbe a good starter bike for me. I do know one thing however, I need to\nmake my first bike a good one, because buying a second any time soon is\nout of the question. I am specifically interested in racing bikes, (CBR\n600 F2, GSX-R 750). I know that this may sound kind of crazy\nconsidering that I've never had a bike before, but I am responsible, a\nfast learner, and in love. Please give me any advice that you think\nwould help me in my search, including places to look or even specific\nbikes that you want to sell me.\n\n Thanks :-)", "\n\nWhat??? I heard there was a new engine slated for the mustang...something\nlike 280hp (ok, it was from one of their other lines...)...\n\n-- ", "I tried mailing you but your domain seems not to exist, can't even get \nsinet.slb.com to admit to knowing about geco, anyway here we go:\n\n\n: Subject:GPz900 runs like a bitch.\n: Anyone have a cure for sub zero running probs on a GPz 900.\n: Anything below 3000 revs and the bike wants to cut out all the time,\n: the recommended cure in the bike mags seems to be to switch off the engine\n: for a minute to thaw the ice,but this is obviously not mutch of a cure.\n: mine has had the kawasaki heated carb mod but the problem persists,\n: i've covered the rad which makes the bike run warmer and moves the problem\n: down the temp scale a degree or two.\n: Has anyone tried a dynojet kit on the 900 or (getting desperate) different\n: carbs or the fuel injection off the GPz 1100.\n:\n\nHave you talked to Kawasaki, maybe they did another version of the upgrade\nkit. Got to be worth a phone call. Did you do the carb mod or did you buy it\nsecondhand from someone who said that it had been done.\n\nIs that Orpington in Kent? If so have you heard of the Ogri mailing list\nwhich I run? Its an email list for bikers in the UK and interested parties,\navailable live or as a daily digest. Let me know if you want to subscribe.\n\nGood luck, Dave\n", "The car might also need a front end alignment, particularly if you're\ndescribing wandering.\n", "\n\n\tI want one, and I don't want to move to Europe to buy one. Please make\nit the next Pontiac F-Car. Of course I'll have to wait 'till 2003 to buy it...\n\n\n\n", "\n\n\tNonsense. First, the uranium fuel is sealed in zirconium\nalloy cylinders (which don't melt in any circumstances short of \nmajor failure of the power plant). Second, the primary water\n(that circulates inside the reactor core) is never pumped into the\ncooling tower (it's the SECONDARY water cycle that goes \nthrough the cooling tower). Third, liquid uranium would burst\ninto flame on contact with air.\n\n\n\tCleaning crew working in a mist of uranium? This is a\ntoxic heavy metal, even if it WEREN'T radioactive. Shouldn't there\nbe some smileys here? Or frowneys? ", "\n\nAnd some BDC in a Volvo comes careening off the freeway and lands on top of\nyou in said pool. You can't win.\n\njim", "A long time back (months), I think a similar question was asked....\n\nA suggestion, in addition to Ed's list, was to put your windward knee out\naway from the bike.\n\nI tried it, and it seems to help, actually.\n", "Les Bartel's comments:\n\nLet me add my .02 in. I had a A/C installed by the Ford garage and it did not\nwork as well as the A/C that was installed by the factory in pickups \nidentical to mine. I have talked to other people that have had the same\nresult. Don't know if this is just a probable with Ford or what??", "On the other side of the fence, I owned a Bieffe off-road helmet.\nTook what I would consider a minor fall, and had visible damage\nto the shell. Yes, the helmet did its job. But the damage/impact\nratio was scary. I own Bell Moto-5 now, have taken impacts on\norder of twice the Bieffe impact (we do this frequently in MX),\nand don't even have a scratch on it after two seasons. My\nrecommendation is to buy _high_ quality gear. YMMV.", "\nUniden makes an all in one unit (X, K, Ka, Laser) for about $130.\nColorado Radar sells passive radar jammers, the passive supposedly being legal,\nfor about $100. wont help you with Laser however.", "\nI find this method much better myself, too, although I do really\nhate it when the bolt finally comes loose and the wrench and my\nhand both come crashing into my face. After coming to, which is\nabout 15 minutes later, I change my clothes (because by this time\nall the oil has drained *on* me), and ice my entire face and suck\ndown about 20 Tylenol to ease the pain. Later in the day I then\nproceed with refilling the engine oil.\n\nIt's just crazy how I try and change the oil on my cars in one\nweekend---I go through about 3 bottles of Tylenol and 2 bags of ice.", "\tGood advice.\n\n\tMy Ol'lady taps me on the shoulder to let me know she is \n\tuncomfortable. I, in turn, am prepared for her to move about on the \n\tback of the bike.\n\n\tWe had 1 bad crash (nail in rear tire on left hand sweeper at crest \n\tof hill on pavement/pea-gravel road) and her actions helped lessen \n\tthe severity of it. As we were crashing, she stayed upright in the \n\tsaddle with her feet on the pegs and her hands about my waist. I was\n\table to get the bike slowed down 10-15mph before we were high-sided.\n\tShe got off with a fair case of road rash and I had to have the doc \n\tremove a lot of rocks from my knee. Had she panicked we would have \n\tprobably crashed at greater speed causing greater injury.\n\tBTW, as soon at the tire went flat, we went into VIOLENT tank-\n\tslappers. This is what she rode out in a \"normal\" riding posture!\n\n ----===== DoD #8177 = Technician(Dr. Speed) .NOT. Student =====----", "\n\n\nGreg,\n\nI'm very new to motorcycles. Haven't even bought one yet. I was in the same\nposition about you. How do you learn if you've never ridden.\n\nI took a class put on by a group called the Motorcycle Safety Foundation\nin California. They might have something similar in Washington.", "Greetings netters,\n\nSteve writes ... \n\nWell I have the mother of all locks. On Friday the 16th of April I took\npossesion of a 12' Cobra Links lock, 1\" diameter. This was a special order.\n\nI weighs a lot. I had to carry it home and it was digging into my shoulder\nafter about two blocks.\n\nI have currently a Kryptonite Rock Lock through the front wheel, a HD\npadlock for the steering lock, a Master padlock to lock the cover to two\nfront spokes, and the Cobra Links through the rear swing arm and around a\npost in an underground parking garage.\n\nNext Friday the 30th I have an appointment to have an alarm installed on\nme bike.\n\nWhen I travel the Cobra Links and the cover and padlock stay at home.\n\nBy the way. I also removed the plastic mesh that is on the Cobra Links\nand encased the lock from end to end using bicycle inner tubes (two of\nthem) I got the from bicycle dealer that sold me the Cobra Links. The\nguys were really great and didn't mark up the price of the lock much\nand the inner tubes were free.\n\nLater.\n", "\n\nGood point. I have no idea how either of my Hondas will handle at 100+ mph,\nnor do they reach 155. However, using `high' to be 70-90 mph:\n\na) They are quite amenable to long high speed drives. I've done several\n1k mile+ trips in my Civic with no problems whatsoever. The last big trip\nI made was driving from New York to Texas. I remember driving 700-800\nmiles a day at typically 75-85 mph without any problems. I'm sure I \nwould have been more comfortable driving a benz, but no white knuckles.\nNo problems with winds and curves. \n\nThen there was the trip back from New Orleans after Mardi Gras - where\nwe were doing 80+ all the way to Houston. No problems.\n\nb) Both my cars have surprising good fuel economy at high speeds. I see\nno difference between sustained 60 mph and sustained 80mph. On the trip\nback from New Orleans, we got about 30 mpg in my Integra, quite ok. Mind\nyou, the engine revs to almost 4k at 80. The civic is markedly better\nthan the Integra in fuel economy. 50k miles down the road, I still\nget 35 mpg at 70-75 mph driving.\n\n\n\nNow now, you can't compare a diesel with a gasoline engine. I see enough\nbmws and gasoline mercs for sale that have 100-150k miles on them and advertise \nrebuilt engines. If honda was to build an accord for 30k, I'd darn well\nexpect the sucker to last 300k miles.\n\n\nEver got caught behind a early 80's 300SDL at a stop light? It's not\npleasant. The newer MB's are a lot better though. The diesel Volvos\nand VWs are probably the smelliest offenders.\n\nAs for economy, why should we care? Gas is cheap! I personally wouldn't\nbuy a diesel car for any reason - what does it buy me?\n\nShantanu Ganguly\nSomerset (Motorola)", "\n\tI've heard of sillier things, like a well-known utility company\nwanting to buy an 'automated' boiler-cleaning system which uses as many\noperators as the old system, and which rumour has it costs three million\nmore per unit. Automation is more 'efficient' although by what scale they are\nnot saying...", "A question for any high-mileage Audi owners out there: I am\ninterested in buying a 1989 Audi 5000S for $5500 Cdn. The\nreason the car is selling for so little is that is has\n155000 km on it (just under 100000 mi.). The car's owner\nclaims the car is in good condition. My question is: how\nreliable are Audi 5000s with mileage that high? Would it\nbe worthwhile for me to buy the car? Any problem areas that\nI should look out for?\n\nAny help would be greatly appreciated. Post responses and/or\ne-mail me.\n\nThanks\n\nSteve Hui", "Keith Hanlan, on the Wed, 14 Apr 1993 19:20:14 GMT wibbled:\n: >If I remember correctly, the reason that BMW's come with those expensive,\n: >and relatively worthless, short lived Varda batteries, is 'cause BMW owns\n: >a controling interest in that battery Manufacturer. \n\n: What's wrong with the BMW battery? I've never had problems and I know\n: numerous people that are still using the original battery in there\n: 8-10 year old beemers.\n\n\nKay, my '86 K100RS still has her original battery in. She's OK\n--\n\nNick (the Sufficiently Well Charged Biker) DoD 1069 Concise Oxford\n\nM'Lud.", "I was having a look through a couple of components catalogues when I\ncame across a range of Peltier Effect heat pumps intended for cooling\ncomponents. For those who have not heard of this effect, you put a\ncurrent through one of these devices, and it pumps heat from one side\nto the other. Reverse the current and you reverse the effect. I\nthink a temperature difference can give you an EMF as well.\n\nAnyway, it struck me that you could make a nice cool/hot box for\npicnics with one of these, a power regulator, a thermostat and a\ncouple of heat sinks. The biggest device can shift 60W with an\nefficiency of 80-90%, which ain't bad (although it would flatten my\ncar battery in about half an hour).\n\nUnfortunately the catalogue didn't list anything more than the basic\nspecs as a heat pump. I imagine that you would get a back-EMF as the\ntemperature gradient across the device increases. If so, presumably\nits power decreases as the back-EMF increases, until eventually we\nhave a steady state with no current being consumed (assuming no\nleakage). If so, then the final temperature difference between the\ntwo sides could be set by the supply voltage and nothing more\n(although that would be a lousy way to control it).\n\nWhat I would like to know is:\n\n1: Are the above guesses correct?\n\n2: What is the open-circuit thermal resistance of a typical device?\n (I just want to be sure that my coolbox is not going to get warm\n too fast when I unplug it)\n\n3: How does a Peltier Effect heat pump actually work? It looks like\n magic!\n\n4: Why don't they use these things in domestic fridges/freezers?\n\n\nThanks in advance,\n\nPaul.", "\n Well, for a bit more you could get an Mazda RX-7, definitely a BEST.\n\n For under $30k you're stuck with (in no particular order):\n\n Chevy Camaro Z28 LT1-1\n Ponitac Firebird Firehawk\n Ford Mustang Cobra\n Toyota MR2 Turbo\n GMC Typhoon ;)\n\n", "DeSoto's first year of manufacture was 1928, so this may indeed have been\nan export special, as left hand controls were standard here by then.\n", "\nThis must vary from state to state, because our old company Kemper wanted\nto drop me (keeping my wife) or tripple our premium because i had 1 ticket.\nOnly 2 points for 10 mph over speed limit. Well i called Geico, and they\ninsured both my wife and i for less then we were previously paying\nKemper.\n\nGenerally i hate the whole insurance game. I realize that it is necessary\nbut the way that a person can get dicked around doesn't make any sense.\n\nOne good thing about Geico is that everything can be handled over\nthe phone.\n\n\n\n . \n / \nLarry __/ _______/_ \nkeys@csmes.ncsl.nist.gov / \\ \n _____ __ _____ \\------- ===\n ----------- / ____/ / / /__ __/ \\\n / ___ / / ___ / / / / ____ |\n | / \\/ /__ / | / /__ __/ /__ / \\ / \n /___ \\_______/ /_____/ /______/ ====OO\n \\ / \\ / \n - 1990 2.0 16v -\n\n\n ---------------- FAHRVERGNUGEN FOREVER! -------------------- \n The fact that I need to explain it to you indicates\n that you probably wouldn't understand anyway!", "\nFrom _Cycle_World_ magazine (5/93) (who usually never says _anything_\nbad about any motorcycle):\n\n\"The Max certainly has motor, but there are some things it is short of.\nIt is short of chassis. It loves straight lines; aimed in one, it is\nnicely stable. But it is not overfond of corners. Forced into one, it\nprotests, shaking its head, chattering its front tire, grinding its\nfootpegs, and generally making known its preference for straight\npavement. Bumps? It doesn't like them either. Its fork isn't too bad,\nthough it is soft enough that it can be bottomed under hard braking.\nThe shocks, though which work on that short-travel, shaft-drive\nswingarm, are firm to the point of harshness.\"\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------", "\t ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\n\tWell that was pretty uncalled for. (No smile)\n\tIs our Harley manhood feeling challenged?\n\n", "\nNo. reverse lights are to warn others that you are backing up. They\naren't bright enough to (typically) see by without the brake and tail\nlights. \n\n\nWell, red and orange were already taken. Maybe white defines the direction\nthat the car is moving in.\n\n\nIf you really want to be able to see behind you, get some fog lamps for\nthe back of the car. These work very well - and are a good way to get\nrid of tailgaters if you get that rush of testosterone.", "1991 Toyota Camry for sale:\n Deluxe package\n 5 speed\n grey\n power windows\n power door locks\n AM/FM cassette\n power steering\n power brakes\n 70K highway miles\n Excellent condition\n\n $9500 Rob Fusi\n rwf2@lehigh.edu\n (609) 397-2147 after 7pm E-mail me for more info...\n (914) 335-6984 day (until 5)\n Ask for Bob Fusi\n\n ", "Hello all,\n\nI know that after market sunroofs may have left a bad taste in some of \nyour mouths, but I am really interested in finding a \"good\" brand if one \nexists. Please let me know if you have heard of any makers with a good\nreputation (few failures, no leaks, that sort of thing) and whether or\nnot you have had first hand experience with that manufacturer. Who is\ngenerally regarded in the industry as the \"best\" (price no object) maker \nof power sunroofs?? \n\n--Steve\n", "From article <1qkkl5INNbvo@hp-col.col.hp.com>, by theckel@col.hp.com (Tim Heckel):\n\n--When I was selling Nissans last summer, I sold a '92 SE-R in early August\n when its supply was getting quite scarce. The car was black with ABS, \n Value Option Pkg, and power moonroof. I sold it for $12,900 plus tax.\n Naturally, my manager didn't really care to sell one of the most desirable\n SE-R's for virtually no profit (to the best of my knowledge).....\n\n--Aamir Qazi\n\n-- ", "ites:\n Yeah, and the cop couldn't catch me.....", "\nThere was a Volvo owner that had $3000 dollars worth of improvements to the \nlooks of the car by hail :).\n", "Monthly posting regarding the Buick Grand National / Regal T-Type mailing list.\n\nThis list is for owners and other parties interested in the 82-87 Buick Grand\nNationals, Regal T-Types, GNXs, and other turbocharged Regals. Discussions \ninclude technical information and parts sources. Particular emphasis is given \nto performance enhancements and racing.\n \n\tTo join, or ask, about the mailing list, contact:\n\n\t\tgnttype-request@srvsn2.monsanto.com\n", "\nI shipped my K75S from Portland Oregon to Daytona for this years\nbike week (I rode it back!). The company I used is The Federal Co's.\nYou can reach them at 1-800-747-4100 ex 214. You either have to be\na AMA member, or maybe it is just a discount for AMA, not sure.\n(Call 1-800-AMA-JOIN to become an AMA member)\n\nThe shipping cost is based on the number of miles. It cost me about $500\nfor Portland to Orlando. $80 of that was insurance. All I had to do is\nride it to the shipping dock and siphon the gas out. I think they can\nalso pick up the bike from any business. The bike arrived on-time at\nOrlando. All I had to do was adjust the mirrors and add gas. The bike\nwas in perfect shape!", " crud deleted... \n\nYou are missing out on a lot of neat old rides.\n-- \n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\"Tuba\" (Irwin) \"I honk therefore I am\" CompuTrac-Richardson,Tx\nirwin@cmptrc.lonestar.org DoD #0826 (R75/6)", "From: thwang@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Tommy Hwang)\nSubject: Advise needed in buying Automobile\n\n >I am in search of a dependable automobile to purchase. Below\n >are its requirements:\n >\t5. V6 or above\n\n Most of the cars you mentioned are below (smaller than) V6 engine.\n\n Tony\n--", "Now the bike is off warranty, I finally replaced the stock items on my\nSoftail Custom with the title ones. Installation was pretty easy in\nboth cases, even for a fairly non-mechanical chemist type dude like me!\n I discovered the limitations of my tool collection, but had fun buying\nand making the requisite tools!\n\nMC Ignitions Power Arc II Single Fire Ignition: easy to install, but\nread the wiring diagram carefully! Setting the static timing was a\npiece of cake. Once installed, I have found easier starting, smoother\nidle, and more power, plus a more satisfying (to me) bass note in the\nexhaust register...a lovely whompa-whompa-whompa idle :-)\nThe folks at MC Ignitions were great in answering my dumb questions on\nthe phone..... a very helpful bunch of guys with a great product.\n\nS&S Super E Carb: installation easy, once I hacked down an Allen wrench\nto a small anough reach to get at the intake manifold bolts. Tunes like\na dream, just like they say! The stock carb (non-adjustable) was so\nlean that it was gasping and spluttering for gas sometimes, and even\nbackfiring into the intake manifold. The Super E is terrific, no\nhesitation in any gear, and my plugs are a lovely tan color with no\nneed to rejet from the factory settings!\n\nI know this may not seem like much to you grizzled veteran wrenchers\nout there, but I had my bike in so many pieces this weekend I began to\nget worried. But it all went back together again, and runs like a\ndream, so I am feeling pretty happy.\n\nNow all I have to do is install my BUB pipes and try to pass the NH\nNoise Gestapo Test!\n", "79 Toyota Corolla 4D hatchback, runs OK, needs dents smoothed, serious\nbrake work and miscellaneous TLC. Excellent auto shop project. $250 \nOBO. See in Algonquin or Schaumburg. (708) 658-5285, (708) 576-0675,\nor email.", "Does anyone know what the domestic content is of any of these:\nGeo Prizm, Eagle Talon, Ford Probe\n\n?\n\nAll are made in the US, but I have been told they contain mostly\nforeign parts. Please follow up directly to me, I'll post the\nfindings to the net if there is interest.\n\nThanks!\nTim Newman", "\nI tried the AutoFom stuff on my 1991 Saturn SC, and was so disappointed with it\nthat I returned it for a refund. I polished the car for 2 hours and couldn't\nremove the swirl marks/thin film that was all over the finish. It also\nattracted more dirt than without the stuff.\n", "\n\nMy experience is when they pound their fists on your back it means \"slow down\".\n\nSeriously, concentrate on being very smooth, and you will make her\nexperience much more enjoyable. Even a normal upshift causes your\npassenger to bob, so I ease off the throttle before pulling in the\nclutch to eliminate this. It's more work, but your passenger will\nappreciate it! Also, I've found that using more rear brake than normal\nhelps keep the bike from diving as much during routine stops, which\nmakes it much easier for the passenger to hang on. If you're going\nsport riding, have the passenger reach around you and brace themselves\nagainst the tank so you don't have to bear both your weights with your\narms. (Again your bike will dive less too)\n", "A while back I asked for help in defending a traffic ticket I received.\n In short:\n The ticket was for not stopping at a stop sign. Given the conditions\n I could not stop in time and decided instead of sliding right through the\n intersection, I would complete my right-turn and avoid a possible accident.\n A police cruiser happened to be approaching the intersection from my left\n and gave me the ticket.\n The officer said \"The only reason that you even slowed down in the first\n place was that you saw me approaching, otherwise you would have bombed right\n through\"\n\n\n I would like to thank all those who responded favorably to my request for\n help. To all of those who told me to bite the bullet and pay the fine:\n PHGHGHGHGH..\n\n The judge sided with me and decided that in this case \"Not stopping\" was the\n safest thing to do and found me NOT GUILTY.\n\n The officer's statement and my account of the conditions at the time (very\n slippery, backed by newpaper weather conditions) were the factors what made\n the judge decide on his verdict.\n\n\n Moral: If you have never been to court before and you think you have a case,\n\t go for it. It is a very interesting process, and it is there for\n\t your benefit. Exercise your rights.\n\n\n Trev", "\n I need some advice on having someone ride pillion with me on my 750 Ninja.\n This will be the the first time I've taken anyone for an extended ride\n (read: farther than around the block :-). We'll be riding some twisty, \n fairly bumpy roads (the Mines Road-Mt.Hamilton Loop for you SF Bay Areans).\n\nI'd say this is a very bad idea - you should start out with something\nmuch mellower so that neither one of you get in over your head.\nThat particular road requires full concentration - not the sort of\nthing you want to take a passenger on for the first time.\n\nOnce you both decide that you like riding together, and want to do\nsomething longer and more challenging, *then* go for a hard core road\nlike Mines-Mt. Hamilton.\n\nIn any case, it's *your* (moral) responsibility to make sure that she\nhas proper gear that fits - especially if you're going sport\nriding.", "\nPoor Matthew. A million posters to call \"you car drivers\" and he\nchooses me, a non car owner.", "Help! I've got a friend shopping for her first motorcycle. This is great!\nUnfortunately, she needs at most a 28\" seat. This is not great. So far,\nthe only thing we've found was an old and unhappy-looking KZ440.\n\nSo, it's time to tap the collective memory of all the denizens out there.\nAnybody know of models (old models and used bikes are not a problem)\nwith a 28\" or lower seat? And, since she has to make this difficult ( 8-) ),\nshe would prefer not to end up with a cruiser. So there's bonus points\nfor listing tiny standards.\n\nI seem to remember a thread with a point similar to this passing through\nseveral months ago. Did anybody keep that list?\n\nThanks!\n", "Go with the Mercedes, if you can afford it. I think the 300 wagon starts around\n50k, although it could be 60k.\n\nThere is no comparison with any of the other cars listed.\n", "\n\n\nIMHO = in my humble opinion!!\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nI didn't say there was no value - all I said was that it is very confusing\nto newbies. \n\n\nBill, you are kidding yourself here. Firstly, motorcycles do not steer\nthemselves - only the rider can do that. Secondly, it is the adhesion of the\ntyre on the road, the suspension geometry and the ground clearance of the\n motorcycle which dictate how quickly you can swerve to avoid obstacles, and\nnot the knowledge of physics between the rider's ears. Are you seriously\nsuggesting that countersteering knowledge enables you to corner faster\nor more competentlY than you could manage otherwise??\n\n\n\nFormal training in this country (as far as I am aware) does not include\ncountersteering theory. I found out about countersteering about six years ago,\nfrom a physics lecturer who was also a motorcyclist. I didn't believe him\nat first when he said I steered my bike to the right to make it turn left,\nbut I went out and analysed closely what I was doing, and realized he was \nright! It's an interesting bit of knowledge, and I've had a lot of fun since\nthen telling others about it, who were at first as sceptical as I was. But\nthat's all it is - an interesting bit of knowledge, and to claim that\nit is essential for all bikers to know it, or that you can corner faster\nor better as a result, is absurd.\n\nFormal training is in my view absolutely essential if you're going to\nbe able to ride a bike properly and safely. But by including countersteering\ntheory in newbie courses we are confusing people unnecessarily, right at\nthe time when there are *far* more important matters for them to learn.\nAnd that was my original point.", "\nHi, Ravi\n\nIf you need a Harley, we have lots to spare here. All the yuppies\nbought 'the best' a couple of years ago to pose at the (s)wine\nbar. They 'rode a mile and walked the rest'. Called a taxi home and \nwent back to the porsche. So there's are loads going cheap with about\n1 1/2 miles on the clock (takes a while to coast to a halt).\n\nCheers\n\nAndy", "\n\nSo what should I carry if I want to comply with intelligent helmet laws?\n\n(The above comment in no way implies support for any helmet law, nor should \nsuch support be inferred. A promise is a promise.)", "\nWhat do you mean by \"police band\" - there is no such thing.\n\nAnyway, radar detectors work in shared bands.\nIf you applied your test, all of those radar operated door\nopeners in malls would be illegal.\n\nOne of the great problems here is that there are too many\nill-educated (read illiterate) people making too many laws\nabout subjects on which they are incompetent - there may well\nbe laws refereing to \"police bands\", they are almost certainly\nlocal in scope (state or county) - created by well-meaning,\nbut incompetent idiots.\n\nUnfortunaltely, laws do not have to be sensible (or even enforceable).\nLawmakers exist to pass laws - and will continue to do so, until\nthe day where you are faced with death for not doing X, and\namputation of all your limbs for doing X ... the choice will be yours.\n\nNote: no smiley.", "\nI remember a commercial for some cheap, top-\nheavy import cage a while back, where the \ndriver says while wearing a stuck-up fake \nTV anouncers smile:\n\n\"It Really goes Straight!\"", "\n\n\n\nThe Delorean used the Peugot/Renault/Volvo V6 in a rear engine configuration.\nThe Bricklin use some 'Merkin iron in a front engine/rear drive configuration.\n", "Lisa Rowlands, on the Wed, 21 Apr 1993 10:13:31 +0000 wibbled:\n: Can anyone recommend a good place for reasonably priced bike paint jobs, preferably but not essentially in the London area. \n\n: Thanks \n\n: Lisa Rowlands\n: -- \n: Alex Technologies Ltd\t\tCP House\n: \t\t\t\t97-107 Uxbridge Road\n: Tel: \t+44 (0)81 566 2307\tEaling\n: Fax: \t+44 (0)81 566 2308\tLONDON\n: email:\tlisa@alex.com\t\tW5 5LT\n\n\nLisa,\n\nTry Pip on 081 590 8045. She does wonderful things with paint...\nI've seen her work and it's good.\n\nBest of luck.\n\n--\n\nNick (the well connected Biker) DoD 1069 Concise Oxford Boring paint job\n\nM'Lud.", "\n\n\n I've heard that bikes tuned to perfection on the Dyno can be a little\ntoo close to the edge for street use. Cold morning, bad gas, etc.\n\n Apparently they back them of some even for track use. \n\n You pays your money ...\n\n__\n Jorg Klinger | GSXR1100 | If you only new who\n Arch. & Eng. Services |\"Lost Horizons\" CR500 | I think I am. \n UManitoba, Man. Ca. |\"The Embalmer\" IT175 | - anonymous\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n", "1988 Burton Air Snowboard\n\nMultiflex bindings\ntriple strap on back binding\nboard bag and leash included\nrecently toned and waxed \n\n$139 firm.", "\n\n\nShades of the Edsel! They had pushbuttons in the steering wheel hub\nthat controlled the auto tranny. It was very disconcerting to shift\ninto reverse when turning a corner and the wires shorted.\n\n\n\n\n\n", "Does anybody share my opinion that in big-city traffic a bike can be so\nlow-powered that for example it cant accelerate out of trouble when\nnecessary..the \"screwed-down\" versions of bikes sold on the German\nmarket with the different classes of liscence seems to make a lot of\nmiddle aged men putt putt around on 25-40Km/Hr maschines that are\nconstantle getting in the way of \"real\" traffic!\n\nDoes anybody else have opinions on this topic!?\n\nsnuffy\n\n-- ", "\nPersonally, i wouldn't use the $1.29 product from KMart. I knew about\nthis previously, but this past weekend on PBS's MotorWeek Pat Goss \n(their resident tech type) discussed these products, and recommends\nnot using them (i.e, the non-isopropyl alcohlo based injector cleaners).\n\nSupposedly only the isopropyl based cleaners actually remove moisture\nfrom your fuel tank as they clean your injectors. And although the \nothers (ethyl based) do clean injectors they also cause rubber \ncomponents in the fuel system to deteriorate, and they don't mix well\nwith water to help remove it from the fuel system.\n\nI use a product recommended by VW called 44K (by BG Products, Inc.).\nIt cost more about $14.00, but it is supposed to do the job without\nthe potential harmful side effects, and its results are supposed to \nlast from 2k to 4k miles. I have also used Chevron's Techtrolene (sp?).\n\nI can't say that i have noticed any difference using either, since i \nonly use these product as a preventative maintenance item.\n\n\n . \n / \nLarry __/ _______/_ \nkeys@csmes.ncsl.nist.gov / \\ \n _____ __ _____ \\------- ===\n ----------- / ____/ / / /__ __/ \\\n / ___ / / ___ / / / / ____ |\n | / \\/ /__ / | / /__ __/ /__ / \\ / \n /___ \\_______/ /_____/ /______/ ====OO\n \\ / \\ / \n - 1990 2.0 16v -\n\n\n ---------------- FAHRVERGNUGEN FOREVER! -------------------- \n The fact that I need to explain it to you indicates\n that you probably wouldn't understand anyway!", "\"auto\nfrom", "}Honda: a \"V\" designates a V engine street bike. \"VF\" for V-4, \"VT\" for V-twin.\n\nSo how about my Honda Hawk (NT 650)? It's a twin, but not called a VT.", "\nI think it was the reverse, the V4 being 2/3 of the V6.\n\n\nIt was also the worst engine that Ford (Europe) have ever made - bloody\nawful reputation. It's most successful application being the Transit\nvan.\n\nSaab gave up with this motor and then made the Triumph 1854 (half a Stag V8) under license (I believe), but with 2-litre capacity and perhaps a different\narrangement for the cylinder head studs, before developing their own straight \nfour from the Triumph.", "\n\n\nKidding, right? \n\nCorvette, several MBZ's and BMW's, Mustang GT, etc., etc. There's a lot of\nthem. You from a European site?\n\n\t-Kenny\n", "\nI may not wave: I just wink at you with one eye. 'Course, it's hard to see\nthat through a shield and sunglasses, but hey, if you're a \"true rider with \nthe real riding attitude,\" you'll sense it. ", "1987 ARIENS RIDING LAWN MOWER\n\n\tThis mower is in perfect condition and\n\tcontains the following features:\n\n\t- Electric Start\n\t- 26 inch cut\n\t- Double Rear Baggers\n\t- New Battery\n\t- New Engine (one year old)\n\t- Inflatable Tires (gives nice ride)\n\t- Cushioned Seat (gives nice ride)\n\t- Tuned up and blade sharpened in the\n\t past month\n\n\tI am moving into a house that has a\n\tsmall area of grass to cut and does not\n\trequire such large mower. The engine was\n\treplaced, not rebuilt, last year due to\n\tsome faulty work done by a lawn mower\n\trepair shop.", "\n...\n\nSpeedy, you've got this all wrong. When you're done, buy a better dirt\nbike, body armor, decent boots, and forget about the weenie street riding.\n:-) ", "IS there a simple way tooput these sunroofs out of their misery - \ndo leaks tend to be from old gaskets ? \nor from inadequate mechanical seals - \nor all of the above ??\n\nis there any way to halt the rain ?\n\nthanks\nhk", "\nI understand Caddy is working on one, double battery, super high perf\nengine, more gauges, a bit 'stretched', etc, lots of communication equipment,\nthe works. Color selection is limited though. \n\nThe problem is that the guy at 1600 Penn. Avenue is about to get it\n(Pres. Clinton) (Last time it was a Lincoln, this time a Caddy). \n\n\nNot to my knowledge; I know GM does conversion work for things like \nhot climates (i.e. the Chevy Caprices sold to the Middle East) but \nthings like that are always done by third parties, NOT the manufacturer.\nMaybe you will need to buy a specific package that has beefed-up everything,\nperhaps the police cruiser package on the Caprice/Crown Vic and start from\nthere. \n\n\n\"And I wuz drivin' along in my armored Seville STS and this punk pulls out\nof nowhere with an RPG (Rocket Propelled Grenade) but the bulletproof\nwindshield stopped him\" :-) Don't think many people on the net have a need\nfor bulletproof cars. \n\nCheck with local armored service companies/security/bodyguard places. They'd\nknow best. I think your average luxury car dealer will have a coronary if\nyou told them \"I'll take the blue Caprice, with options FZ01 (Fuzzy Dice),\nPR11 (power everything), and AR007 (Armor). \n\n\nI believe an article on the conversion process appeared in the car press within\nthe last few months.\n\nSpiros", "Hi everybody ...\n\nWell I don't know if this is a known problem\nto you in the big state but over here in Europe\nit is in some places ...\nIt just happened to me and I payed A LOT to get my \nnew Honda Civic repaired.\nA marten choose my car to stay one night in and this\ndamn little animal damaged almost everything which\nwas plastic/rubber ..\nI never thought that these little #@%##@ could do that\nmuch damage.\n\nSo to ALL you car owners out there :\n\nIs there a GOOD known method of gettin' rid of this animal ???\nexcept for waiting all night long beneath my car with a gun ???\n\nHELP IN ANY FORM WOULD BE APPRECIATED VERY VERY MUCH !!!!\n\n\n\ne-mail: scheer@faw.uni-ulm.de\n\n", "it hauls butt, handles nice, but is junk. i drove a brand new one for a day\nas a loaner. the key was already rusting...seems they stamp their keys out\nof pot-metal. all the controls seemed really junk...clutch was heavy.\ndoor locks, power buttons, sunroof controls etc. seemed really cheap.\nno way i would pay 24k for this baby. no airbag either. i also drove a svx\nfor a day...stickered at 30k, but going out the door for 21k...a much better\nbuy, imo. although it is more of a sports touring coupe...roomy etc.\nthe corrado is more of a small sports car. the ergonomics and leather in the\nsvx was twice as nice as the corrado's. both had smooth strong engines.\n\n\n", "I was wondering if anybody knows anything about a Yamaha Seca Turbo. I'm \nconsidering buying a used 1982 Seca Turbo for $1300 Canadian (~$1000 US)\nwith 30,000 km on the odo. This will be my first bike. Any comments?\n\nThanks.", "I just entered the market for a Radar Detector and am looking for\nany & all advice/recommendations/warnings/etc from anyone in \nthis group.\n\nEmail is preferred.", "A little bit off of the subject but here goes\nyes he is one in the same (i.e. Chevrolet Motor Div)\nalso his brother Gaston raced at Indy and was the winner in 1920.\nI have also seen the name Arthur Chevrolet in the early teens (1911 and on)\nI assume he is related\n\nKeith Nuetzman, nuet_ke@pts.mot.com\nMotorola Inc.\nPaging and Wireless Data Group\nBoynton Beach, Fl", "\nI read that GM wants to keep the Design part of Lotus but lose the car\nproduction. And, I seem to remember, that the main problem with the Elan\nwas caused by GM's insistence that the Elan be re-designed (significantly)\nfor the US market which caused major design & production headaches. \n\n\nQuite true - brain fade on my part.\n", "\n\n$ The biggest hurdle for automatics (IMHO) is not shifting speed\n$ per se, but rather the transmission's reaction speed when you\n$ try to force it to shift manually. \n$ [...]\n\nI rented an Oldsmobile Achieva (is that a yuppie name or what?) and a\nNissan Stanza. They both had automatics. I'm a manual transmission\nbigot but I have to admit that the transmissions on these cars were\nbetter shifters than I am. And yes, they responded very quickly to\nkickdown requests. The Nissan had a tachometer so I was able to figure\nout which gear I was in. (The Olds may have also, but I don't\nremember.) I believe it shifted all the way down to second at about 50\nmph when my foot told it, \"No I really want to accelerate quickly.\"\n\nI would still prefer a manual, but I won't delude myself into thinking\nthat I can out-accelerate a modern automatic. And I'm very smooth at\nshifting but certainly not as good as an automatic.", "\nI don't know where you live, but I couldn't get out of my driveway\nat night without reverse lights. As someone said, out in the country\nyou notice neat little things like stars and the difference between\nday and night. At night around my house (which is amongst a forest of\nrather tall oaks) it is DARK, except for nights with full moons.\nReverse lights illuminate my path very well when backing up; I greatly\nprefer cars with them to cars without operational reverse lights.\n\n\t\t\t\tJames", "\n\tMind posting those to the euro archive? We have a directory\n\tspecifically for BMWs.\n\n\tftp: 134.29.65.5 (Vax2.Winona.MSUS.EDU)\n user: euro\n pass: spooge\n cd bmw\n\nget and put as you please.", "\nKY>To all those who have PASSATs, do you recommend using Super Unleaded or just\nKY>regular Unleaded Gasoline. I have been using Regular Unleaded. A friend of mine has\nKY>a Jetta and has always used Super Unleaded and thinks I should be using the same;\nKY>however, I believe the advantages of Super Unleaded for CARs $30000 and under\nKY>has been overplayed by guess who: the companies who sell them, because that is\nKY>where they make the most PROFIT. A Ralph Nader report and other consumer advocates\nKY>have in the past spoken against those oil companies.\n\nYour Passat VR6 is designed to run on premium gasoline, however the\nengine electronics will retard the timing so that no harm wil be done\nto the engine with lower octane fuel.\n\nYou will likely, however, get somewhat more power and fuel mileage\n(especially in hot weather) out of this particular engine if you do\nrun it on premium. \n\nTom Neumann\n---\n þ DeLuxeý 1.25 #350 þ I sell Volkswagens.", "Yeah, it seems toyota has always had a problem with those 2.2's\nand sound. I know the celicas with em were pretty noisey, and\nthe MR2s were no exception. Now, about large displacement 4s\nwith bad noise.. I have a 90 Grand Am H.O. quad 4, and it\nsounds really good, almost like a larger 6.. Now, Toyota\nis coming out with an all-new Celica next year and the Mr2...\nwell who knows..", "I thought that all coolants were aluminum safe any more. But I would\nlike to know more since I must tear down my Kawasaki (again I must add).\n", "I have a 86 chevy sprint with a/c and 4doors. It's odometer turned 90k\nand the sensor light started blinking. I went to the dealer and he said\nit was a maintenance light saying I need to change the Oxygen sensor. He\nsaid, It is to be changed every 30k, but since I bought the car when it\nhad 77k, I don't know if the same thing happened at 30k and 60k. He\nquoted $198 for the part and $50 to install it. The part cost $30\noutside, but the mechanic I went to could not fix it saying the sensor\nis placed too deep in the engine parts. He suggested I wait till it\nmalfunctions before I do anything. If anyone out there owns a chevy\nsprint, I want to know how they got their Oxygen sensors changed. Also,\ndid you face any problem with fixing it without the dealer's help. Also,\nwhat are the results of the oxygen sensor malfunction. \n Any help would be greatly apprecisted\n Thanks\n Nagesh\n", "\nI guess it either had the top down, or the hail ripped through the top, as\nyou could not do $10k worth of hail damage to a Miata body. ", "\t<...>\t<...>\n\n\tI've never liked my passengers to try and shift their weight with the\n\tturns at all... I find the weight shift can be very sudden and\n\tunnerving. It's one thing if they're just getting comfortable or\n\tdecide to look over your other shoulder, but I don't recommend having\n\thim/her shift her weight with each turn... too violent.\n\t\n\tAlso (I think someone already said this) make sure your passenger\n\twears good gear. I sometimes choose to ride without a helmet or\n\tlacking other safety gear (depends on how squidly I feel) but I\n\twon't let passengers do it. What I do to myself I can handle, but\n\tI wouldn't want to hurt anyone else, so I don't let them on without\n\tgloves, jacket, (at least) jeans, heavy boots, and a helmet that *fits*\n\n\n\tGo *real* easy. It's amazing how solid a grip you have on the\n\thandle bars that your passenger does not. Don't make her feel like\n\tshe's going to slide off the back, and \"snappy\" turns for you are\n\tsickening lurches for her. In general, it feels much less controlled\n\tand smooth as a passenger. I can't stand being on the back of my\n\tbrother's bike, and I ride aggressively when i ride and I know he's\n\ta good pilot... still, everything feels very unsteady when you're\n\ta passenger. \n\n\n\n\tShow off by not showing off the first time out...\n", "+> \n+> Waving at other bikers makes more sense than just \"Hey, how's it going, \n+>nice to meet you on the road, have a good ride\"\n+> \n+> 2) It keeps you in the habit of watching really carefully for bikes when \n+>you're IN a cage. This is a Good Thing. \n+\n+Has anyone, while driving a cage, ever waved at bikers? I get the urge,\n+but I've never actually done it.\n\nI've had people in cages wave at me or give me the thumbs up on\noccassion. (I always return the wave or thumbs up). That never\nhappened to me until I started riding Harleys, so that may have\nsomething to do with it.\n\nWhy not try waving? What bad could happen?\n____________________________________________________________________________\n\t\tRussian Roulette is fun 5 times out of 6", " I don't think that a transmission fluid change will solve your problem.\n Unless you are in an extremely cold climate and using a very heavy weight\n fluid. Follow the manufacturer's recommended oil weight. Some of the\n cars I have had (all standard transmissions 4 or 5 speeds) recommend\n changing the transmission fluid at 30,000 miles under normal driving\n conditions. I've gone 100,000 without changing the transmission oil (and\n had to replace the transmission bearings!). My older cars used 85 weight\n oil whereas my 92 Honda uses 10-30 motor oil (or maybe 30 weight).\n", "\n\nGeico has purchased radar guns in several states, I know they have done\nit here in CT.\n\nI have also heard horror stories about people that have been insured by Geico\nfor years and then had 1 accident and were immediately dropped. And once\nyou've been dropped by any insruance company you become labled a high\nrisk, and end up forking out 3 or 4 times what you should be for insurance.\n\nMy suggestion, stay where you are, or shop around but STAY AWAY from Geico!", "Dana H. Myers, on the Tue, 20 Apr 93 19:51:16 GMT wibbled:\n: >\n: >>duck. Squids don't wave, or return waves ever, even to each\n: > ^^^^^^\n: > excuse me for being an ignoramus, but what are these.\n\n\n: Squids are everybody but me and you. Chris Behanna is especially a squid.\n\n: * Dana H. Myers\n\nI'm a BMW Squid. Two of my arms are longer, too.\n--\n\nNick (the BS Biker) DoD 1069 Concise Oxford Longer Arms\n\nM'Lud.", "\nWomen's pants rarely have pockets and most, when they do, are too\nshallow to use!\n\nI is very important for a woman to have her keys in her hand when\nshe goes from building to a car. It is protect herself from\nwould be assilants by broadcasting that this is someone who\nas a definite place of safty (ie a locked car!).\n\nPuting keys and walet looks ugly! It breaks the lines and makes\nyou rear look wide as a cows!\n\n Also, to have the habits that\nwork for any clothing situation, the pruse functions no mater\nwhat you are wearing! (even nude or a bikni)\n\nA women's suit coat is lucky to have 2 pockets (2 on the outside,\nnone on the inside). I have men's coats that have as much as 6\npockets! This is definitally not fair!!!\n\nAs one that wears both men's and women's clothes, I can tell you,\nwomen's clothes have few if any funtional pockets!\n\nWhen dressed as a man, I put my wallet on my inside coat pocket and\nmy keys in a coat outside pocket. It is much more covenent\nthan the pants pockets and looks better.\n\nHaving a car that unlocks quickly and locks back fast is\nparamout to a woman's safty. Men don't see this as a problem.\nA woman is aware of this every time she goes out! (i.e.\nImage some red necks yelling at you \"We are going to FUCK YOU!\"\nand the out weight you by 20 lbs and have 3 inches in hight\non you!)\n\nIf you want to find out why a women does something, LIVE AS ONE!", "\nYo' Joe, why don't you post what you really think?\n\nIf there are any rational BMWMOA folks left out there, may the rest of\nus please have a brief summary of the current state of affairs in your\nesteemed organization, together with an historical outline of how you\ngot to the above contretemps?\n\nPoints will be deducted for shouting or bulging veins in the temple area.", "\n\n\n\n There was a guy around here who would do them on an early pre fairing\nWing with a Hannigan. He would get it right up and ride a ways. Pretty\nintimidating sight. \n\n He was real good. He had to be. I guess you wouldn't get away with\nchopping the throttle more than once.\n\n__\n Jorg Klinger | GSXR1100 | If you only new who\n Arch. & Eng. Services |\"Lost Horizons\" CR500 | I think I am. \n UManitoba, Man. Ca. |\"The Embalmer\" IT175 | - anonymous", "For Sale 1989 Kawasaki TS (650) Tandum seating\nColor: White with Blue and Red.\nJet Ski runs great and looks good.\n\nZiemans Trailer with locking Utility Box.\nColor: Black\nZiemans Trailer is less than a year old.\n\nBoth have been garaged kept and well maintained.\n$4200.00 for both \n(To be sold as a set only)", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\tThe Viper isn't an Inline 10 or Flat 10, is it? I'm pretty sure its\na V-10. Also, the Cizeta??? is a V-16, but it may not yet be more than a \ndream...\n\n", "\n\n\n", "\n\n\n\tAbsolutely. Early XS1100's were VERY good at this. \n\n\t\n\n\tDon't try it on your Virago unless you already are purty good at\nit or like the smell of exploded clutch.\n\n\n\n-- \nGo fast. Take chances.", "\n\tYep! I did one yesterday on my shaftie Vision... I should mention \nthat I had a pillon that helped rotate the bike over :-) . The wheelie was \nthe result of a necessarily agressive acceleration manouver through an \nintersection (damn San Antonio cagers tend to be REALLY bad drivers). \n\n\tHowever, I have done one by myself, it just takes a lot of \npre-clutch dump rev action.", "\nReally!?\n\nMethinks somethings wrong with _your_ bike.\n\nPerhaps you meant _pull_?\n\nPushing the right side of my handlebars _will_ send me left.\n\nIt should. \nREally.\n\n\nI'm sure others will take up the slack...\n\n\n", "#[sorry for the 0 auto content, but ... ]\n# \n#> That is why low-abiding citizens should have the power to protect themselves\n#> and their property using deadly force if necessary anywhere a threat is \n#> imminent.\n#>\n#> Steve Heracleous\n# \n#You do have the power Steve. You *can* do it. Why don't you? Why don't you\n#go shoot some kids who are tossing rocks onto cars? Make sure you do a good\n#job though - don't miss - 'cause like they have big rocks - and take it from\n#me - those kids are mean.\n\n This last comment was obviously a bit cynical, but a true statement of\n the attitude of some drivers (there's your \"autos\" content), I would say.\n\n What law-abiding (not \"low-abiding\" as above (talk about Freudian slips!))\n citizens have the right and responsibility to do is try to PREVENT this\n type of behaviour in children. A doctor may have to use \"deadly force\"\n against a part of a body (like amputating it) when an infection/disease\n has gone too far. But his real desire would have been to *prevent* the\n disease in the first place or at least nip it in the bud.\n\n Followups should go to alt.parents-teens\n\n Fred W. Bach , Operations Group | Internet: music@erich.triumf.ca\n TRIUMF (TRI-University Meson Facility) | Voice: 604-222-1047 loc 327/278\n 4004 WESBROOK MALL, UBC CAMPUS | FAX: 604-222-1074\n University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., CANADA V6T 2A3", "I need to bring on my VW Corrado for body work (I got hit). I was\nwondering if anyone has heard of any of these South Bay body shops:\n\nAkins Collision Center of Santa Clara - on Reed St\nAuto West Collision - in San Jose\nLos Gatos Acura\nRoyal Auto Body - in Sunnyvale\n\nThanks!", "--\n\nIn 1972, they lowered the engine compression so that it would run on\nregular gas (not to mention the addition of emission controls). The '72 \nalso added pop-out rear quarter windows...\n\nAlot of parts are available for the GT from C & R Small Cars in CT and\nused from Bill Daley's Opel Parts in MA....\n\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nMatthew R. Singer MIT Lincoln Laboratory\n(617) 981-3771 244 Wood Street\nsinger@ll.mit.edu Lexington, MA 02173", "From article <1r8uckINNcmf@gap.caltech.edu>, by wen-king@cs.caltech.edu (Wen-King Su):\n\n--Yes, it does come with the Maxima GXE engine mated to the Maxima SE\n transmission. And it has decent power for a minivan also. \n\n Check again.\n\n--Aamir Qazi\n-- ", "Les Bartel's comments:\n\nLet me add my .02 in. I had a A/C installed by the Ford garage and it did not\nwork as well as the A/C that was installed by the factory in pickups \nidentical to mine. I have talked to other people that have had the same\nresult. Don't know if this is just a problem with Ford or what??", "For sale:\n\n1981 Oldsmobile Omega four door. Gray, power windows, power steering,\npower brakes, remote trunk release. Starts reliably and runs well,\nbut needs some work. $400 obo.\n\nFor details, email or (708)864-0526.\n-- \nMichael A. Atkinson | There is no try, there is only Dew.\nasbestos@nwu.edu | ", "Don't have a list of what's been said before, so hopefully not repeating.\n\nHow about horizontally mounted oil filters (like on my Ford) that, no\nmatter how hard you try, will spill out their half quart on the bottom\nof the car when you change them?\n", "\n/>\n/>I always thought GD's Fighter plants were in Long Island. \n/>\n/No, Northrup has a plant on Long Island.\n\nI don't think Northrup ever had a plant on Long Island. The two main airframe\nmanufacturers there were (Fairchild)/Republic which closed its doors after the\nT-46 cancellation, and Grumman (which is still hanging on last I time I called).\nI think Sperry also started there. If you're ever in the area check out the\nCradle of Aviation Museum at Mitchell field (now mostly parking lots behind the\nNassau Coliseum and the community college). Good display of vehicles from Long\nIsland, including a LEM flight article.", "\nYet another suggestion, but this one is non-toxic (although I would handle\nit like any other cleaner) and it smells nice. The chemical is called\nd-Limonene, and it smells like lemon peels (I think it is a lemon extract\nof some kind). You might find it in a hardware store, sold as a\ngeneral-purpose solvent, but your best bet would be any bike store --\nit is used as a chain-cleaning fluid. It works on sticker glue, crayons,\ngrease, oil, etc.\n\nIt's clear yellow in the bottle, and you can use it straight; if you add\nwater, it changes to a creamy consistency, which is good for some jobs.", "Is it possible to do a \"wheelie\" on a motorcycle with shaft-drive?", "\nWhoa! Watch your terminology. \"Dealer invoice\" is *not* \"dealer cost\".\nYou'll hear lots of ads screaming \"two dollars over dealer invoice!!!\"\nSounds like a real deal, huh? No. You know what the \"dealer invoice\"\n(also called factory invoice) is? It's a piece of paper with numbers\non it that the factory sends the dealer. What do the numbers\nsignify? Absolutely nothing. It's a marketing gimmick that the\nsalesman can wave in your face to impress you. Note that nowhere\non the \"invoice\" does it claim to be the real price of the car, and\nmost ads which mention dealer invoice will end with a very fast,\nlow voice saying something like \"invoice may not reflect actual\ndealer cost\". Actually, I *guarantee* it does not reflect actual\ndealer cost.", "84 Mazda Pickup\nRebuilt engine at 60,000 miles.\nNew Transmission, 5 speed.\n88,000 miles.\nNew brakes, new brake calipers.\nBRAND NEW CLUTCH, only 200 miles on it.\nprofessional ladder racks, can hold up to 6 ladders..\n4 cylinder, gets 30-35 miles to the gallon.\nFog lights.\nTach.\nRuns Great.\n===============\nAll inquires should write back or call. I will have it Saturday Afternoon,\nand Sunday if you would like to take a look at it.\nPhone: 1-215-882-3154\n\nIf your are Painting this summer, this is an excellent vehicle to use.\n", "\n Well, you can accomplish both goals, actually, if you have a definite\nphysical type in mind when you go to these (cough) church meetings.. If\nyour tastes tend to smaller, more petite (cough) churchgoers, it is more\nlikely that they will have a smaller head, and you can safely get a medium\nor small helmet.\n\n This works for me, and I traded my spare large helmet with my best friend,\nwho, at 6'9\", tends to look more for women that are over 6'0\", and can't\nusually fit into the medium size helmet he previously had...\n\n Of course, if you aren't picky what size (*cough*) churchgoers you give\nhelpful motorcycle rides to, then Ed's advice will hopefully cover any\neventuality as far as legality is concerned, and a spare handtowel in the\ntankbag makes acceptable padding so the passenger can see out of the viewport\n(rather than the padding above the viewport) in the cases of extreme mismatch.\n\nRandy Davis Email: randy@megatek.com\nZX-11 #00072 Pilot {uunet!ucsd}!megatek!randy\nDoD #0013", "\n\nIt's not the picture tube. More likely the flyback. Emerson? can't admire.\nHan", "Hi, someone is selling his bmw R65 ( I think it's an '84 ) w/ 15k\nmiles for $2200. He says it's in great condition and perfect shape.\nIt's got the 2 hard saddle bags, too. \n\nIs this a good deal? Seems like an awesome deal. Is it - assuming that\neverything he says is true ?\n\nThanks,\n\nJae\n", "Hi.\n\nI'm not sure what the other guy (can't track down his post for his name)\nwas talking about when he made the claim that cobralinks are not adjustable.\nThey are. There's a space between each link where the \"teeth\" of the \nlocking head notch in. Thus, each link is a possible locking point.\n\nAlso, (and this is not applicable to hard-core thieves who cart around\nliquid nitrogen and oxy-acetylene torches) the cobralinks \"LOOK\" a lot\nmore effective than kryptonite cable locks (IMHO) and I think the initial\nappearance effect is more relevant to bored-joyriders-nominally-adept-at-\ncracking-unsecured-bike deterrence, as long as the lock is nominally \nfunctional.\n\nFinally, I notice that when I ride with my leathers, harness boots, and\nthe cobralinks slung across like a bandolier (BTW, I've crashed in the rain\ndressed like this and the lock didn't pulverize any vertebrae), cagers give\nme a much wider berth, don't hassle me, and tend to avoid any potentially\ninflammatory action at stoplights.\n\nI love my cobralinks almost as much as I love my pre-80's Honda dinosaur.\n(I think I have a pavlovian drool reflex-I put the lock on (i.e., on my\nbody) and I can feel the bike already shaking away).\n\nMy first post. What did I do wrong :)?\n\nsang\nDoD #0846\n'80 CX500\n\np.s. any other CX500 owners out there? Please e-mail me. Got \nquestions about the weird handling on my bike.\n", "For sale 1988 Kawasaki EX-500 with 6682 miles.\nExcellent condition. Kept in a garage. Asking $2200.", "\n\n\n\n as a point of info, some of the early nuclear power plants in this\ncountry used the fission pile as a first stage to get the water hot, and\nthen had a second stage -fossil fuel- step to get the water (actually\nsteam) VERY HOT.\n\n I remember seeing this at Con Edison's Indian Point #1 power plant,\nwhich is about 30 miles north of NYC, and built more or less 1958.\n\n\ndannyb@panix.com", "I am thinking of buying a used Audi 90 Auto.\n\nThese cars look good and Audi do have a good rep. for these cars in Europe\n(where I'm from).\n\nI was just wondering if there anything about these cars that I should know.", "Hi folks.\n \nI'm going to be buying my first bike and I'm considering an 82\nHonda Ascot FT500 with less than 5K miles. Does this sound like a\nreasonable choice? Is there anything special I need to know?\n \nThanks.", "\nOh PULLEEZE!\n\nIt's not biology at all, it's clothing design. Women's clothing is\ngenerally designed to be as non-functional as possible. It's only been\nin the last five years or so that you could buy women's pants with\npockets deep enough to carry anything in. Previously, deep pockets were\nvirtually unknown in women's clothing. Skirts generally have better\npockets now, too. Dresses, espcially fancy dresses, are still pretty\nhopeless. I often hand my driver's license over to my husband if we're\ndressed up to go out somewhere, so I don't have to be encumbered by a\npurse.\n\nIf women consistently bought functional clothing, and boycotted the\nmanufacturers who refuse to make functional women's clothing, I think\nmanufacturers would tend to bow to market pressures. There's\nan interesting chapter in Susan Faludi's Backlash that described\nwhat happened the LAST time clothing manufacturers ignored the\nneed for functional women's clothing. The manufactuing industry\nlost millions.\n\nFrom a woman who would rather buy men's clothing WITH decent pockets and\nlong legs and high waists than women's clothing without....\n\n\n\n\n\n", "From: nataraja@rtsg.mot.com (Kumaravel Natarajan)\n\n\nThe technology Cummins is applying to diesels to comply with\nthe newer Ca. emissions laws involves three things I know of:\n\n1. All compliant diesels are turbocharged.\n2. All use an \"aftercooler\", which cools the air which was heated\n by compression by the turbocharger (up to about 25 PSI).\n3. A gismo on the injector pump which senses the pressurized air\n intake, and limits full delivery of fuel while the pressure is\n low.\n\nNo scrubbers, catalytic converters, etc, are used. The path from\nthe turbocharger to the exhaust outlet is kept very free.\n\nInterestingly, except for the low-pressure fuel limitation, power output \nand mileage are enhanced by these measures. One can buy aftermarket\nturbos and aftercoolers which generate more power, lots more power,\nand these are approved by the CARB.", "\nThat's nothing. When a friend of mine went shopping for a small\nsedan a few years ago, she brought me along as a token male so\nthe salespeople wouldn't give her the \"bimbo\" treatment.\nHer first choice was a Mazda 323, and second choice was a Nissan\nSentra. We went to a Mazda dealership and described what \"we\"\nwanted. We started negotiating on the price, and the salesdroid\nkept playing the \"let me run this price by the sales manager\". After\nplaying the \"good salesman, bad salesman\" game, we finally told him\nthat if he didn't have the authority to negotiate a price, perhaps\nwe should be speaking directly to someone who did. He brought in\nthe sales manager who proceeded to dick us around with every trick\nin the book. (Read Remar Sutton's \"Don't Get Taken Every Time\" for a\nlist.) Finally, after playing a few more rounds of \"you'll have to\nwork with us on this price\", also known as \"each time you come up a\nthousand dollars we'll come down ten\", the salesmanager gave a signal to\nhis two sales cronies, stood up, and said \"well, we can't come down any\nmore so I guess we can't help you\" and they trouped out of the room,\nleaving us sitting in the salesman's office all by ourselves. Hmm.\nI'd read that sleazy salesmen sometimes bug their own offices so they\ncan leave and listen in on couples discussing the sales offer, and\nI mentioned this aloud to my friend while we were sitting there wondering\nwhy they would leave us in the office instead of showing us to the\ndoor. For lack of anything better to do, I picked up the phone on\nthe desk and called another Mazda dealership, asked for a salesman,\nand began discussing what kind of price they would consider. A few\nsentences into the conversation, Mr. Salesmanager broke into the line\n(!) and began telling me how rude he thought it was that I would call\nanother dealership from \"his\" phone! I said that since he'd announced\nthat our business was over, he shouldn't care, and every time I tried\nto talk to the other sales guy the sales manager would drown out our\nvoices with his own. (How did he know that I was using the phone,\nanyway?) Finally, I hung up and we headed out of the showroom.\nSales manager and cronies come out of a little unmarked room and he\nbegins to berate us again. We say that we won't bother him anymore,\nwe're going next door to the Nissan dealership.\n\nThen comes the part I wish I could have videotaped. As we go out\nthe front door, the sales manager SHOUTS across the entire showroom,\ncustomers and all, \"Go ahead! You DESERVE to buy a Nissan!\"\nSo my friend bought a Sentra.", "This summer (~July 20) my wife (Michelle) and I will be in Boston\nattending my brother's wedding. After the wedding we are planning\nto motor up to Bar Harbor, Maine to visit some relatives for a few\ndays. Our summer would be *made* if we could find a bike (or bikes)\nto borrow or rent to ride up to Bar Harbor and back.\n\nHere's some important details: I've been riding for ~11 years,\n(my own bikes for the past 7 years), Michelle has been riding for the\npast 6 years (her own bikes), I've only been involved in one accident\nwhich was caused by a cage driver running a stop sign, I currently own\na BMW R90, Michelle owns a Yamaha Virago 700, we prefer cruising over\nracing, we've toured a fair amount, we're both licensed and insured,\nand we're nice people.\n\nSo, if anyone has a bike (or bikes :-), but the second one would have\nto be a Virago or something else with an equally low seat) that they\nwould be willing to loan us for 3-4 days in July, Michelle and I would\nbe eternally grateful. In addition to our friendship, you would also\nhave the use of our bikes should you ever pass through Minneapolis.\nIn exchange, we would be happy to take you and a guest out for dinner\nand an evening of wild bike stories, or we might even be willing to\ncough up some money for improvements to the bike(s), like new tires or\nsomething.\n\nAlso, any information about bike rentals in the Boston area would be\ngreatly appreciated.", "\nBut waiiiiiit, isn't Nissan officially registering the car as far as\ngovernment paperwork goes, Nissan Stanza Altima, to avoid costly and\nlengthy paperwork? I read this on the net a while ago, and someone\nactually may have said there's a little Stanza logo on the Altima\nsomewhere.\n\nYou *can* have it both ways :-)\n\nSpiros", "\nI was at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Museum the other day and one of\ntheir VERY early winners was 4 valves per cylinder (and either front\nwheel drive or all wheel drive, I think front wheel drive) and that\nwas in 1914!\n\nSpiros", "\nWell, apparently once you get past about 6 inches, all the luggage shifts back in the panniers, the passenger slides back, and the dog ends up hanging onto the top rack,\nand they go all the way over until it's flat on it's ass, with the front wheel\nstraight up in the sky. Impressive, but hard on the tail lights. :)", "\nWell, just when you think *nothing* will strike at a \nBMW-key-fob/ostrich-feather-dipped-in-silly-putty-and-varnished-solid lure,\nsomebody comes along and inhales it right up to the lead swivel!\n\nThere *is* a Dog.\n\nIt's going to be pretty difficult to better (worsen?) a trolling scheme this \nlow, though.", "\nSpring break, I went through the four corners area and back. The most\nbeautiful stop I made was in Utah at the Needles Overlook. Though this\nis a bit further east than where you appear to be going, I highly\nrecommend it. IMHO it is far more beautiful than the Grand Canyon. It\nwas not well marked, but was one of few paved roads off of US191 (I was\nheading north from Monticello). In order to get to the right place, I\nshould clarify that it is the Needles OVERLOOK, and not the recreation\narea. Heading north from Monticello, it is the second turnoff, and may\nhave been marked as the Anticline Overlook. Anticline overlook is\nabout 20 (dirt, if this matters to you) miles past the Needles\noverlook. The road out to the overlook is paved and reasonably\nmaintained (I ran it about 70mph).\n\nLooking out from the overlook was like being God and looking down on \nthe world. If it isn't too far out of your way, you should see it.\n", "\nDean, there's an old engineering saying concerning inventions and\nwheels. Contact #0099, he's done several runs of patches, and there is\nsome patch-making company out there with the artwork already set up and\npaid for.\n", "\n\n\nHow DARE you make such an accusation! There are MANY sober, non-drinkers in \nthis state! If We wern't so busy unloading the beer truck for the week end, \nI might just come up that and have a talk wit you! B->\n\n ----===== DoD #8177 = Technician(Dr. Speed) .NOT. Student =====----", "\nDisgruntled Volvo drivers. What are they rebelling against?", "I'm wondering if anybody else out there is a clutchless shifter? I've been\ndoing it my self over 200,000 miles, on my current toyota truck I've got\nover 150k. I've heard people talk about how doing this can damage a\ntransmission. My experiences suggest otherwise. What techniques do you use?\n\nOn some old pieces of junk I drove, the transmission was so\nworn that pumping the clutch was the only way to shift, except clutchless.\nTo date I've driven rabbits, datsuns, comets, fords & a chevy. Some where\nharder than others to shift but generally the higher the milage the smoother\nquicker & easier they where to shift.\n\nMy technique is to ease back off the throttle and at the same time gently\nwrist back on the shift lever. If for some reason I miss the shift window,\nI lightly press the accelerator & try agian. I've found that clutchless\nshifting is eaiser/quicker at high rpms (4000-7000). I also skip gears some\ntimes using 1-3-5 ,1-2-4-5. ", "From article <1993Apr21.190251.14371@sequent.com>, by troy@sequent.com (Troy Wecker):\n .\n .\n .\n\n .\n .\n .\n\nIt sounds like your analysis is based on hypothesis and not\nactually using the Valentine-1. I'd like to give some feedback based on\nreal life experince. I keep the Valentine-1 in advanced logic mode\nand it rarely lights up as a Christmas tree. The only time it does\nis when I am in the middle of a major shopping area and then it makes\nsense that is does since there are >= 8 sources coming from many different\ndirections. I have found the Valentine-1 to be consistent in its\nreporting of bogeys regardless of any moving cars in the area.\n\nI have found the directional indication to be very useful. In one case\nthere was two radar traps set up within one mile of each other. As I\npassed the first radar trap, the direction indication changed. Then\nthe detector was set off again pointing in the forward direction. With\nother radar detectors I would have assumed that this was due to a reflection.\nBut with the Valentine-1 I knew there was a high probability that there\nwas another trap. And there was!\n\nOn other occasions, the directional helped discern a false alarm from\na true alarm. For example, as I pass a source, the direction indicator\nchanges. The directional also allows me to focus my attention as to where\nthe signal might be coming from instead of having to look all over the \nplace. When a car is approaching me from the rear with a detector\nthat leaks, I can tell that the signal is coming from the rear and as the\ncar passes me I can verify the source. With other detectors, I would\nhave been unable to do this and would have had to assume that there was a radar\ntrap when there was none.\n\nI've had the Valentine-1 for several months now and find its added features\nto be useful and not gimmicks.\n\n -Barry", "\nhere they are $25 for ERC and $50 for MSF. and no\nthe state doesn't subsidize ours at all. we do.\n$1 for every motorcycle endorsed license.\n", "1987 ARIENS RIDING LAWN MOWER\n\n\tThis mower is in perfect condition and\n\tcontains the following features:\n\n\t- Electric Start\n\t- 26 inch cut\n\t- Double Rear Baggers\n\t- New Battery\n\t- New Engine (one year old)\n\t- Inflatable Tires (gives nice ride)\n\t- Cushioned Seat (gives nice ride)\n\n\tI am moving into a house that has a\n\tsmall area of grass to cut and does not\n\trequire such large mower. The engine was\n\treplaced, not rebuilt, last year due to\n\tsome faulty work done by a lawn mower\n\trepair shop.", "--\n\nThe GT was based on the Kadette chassis. It was built model years 1969-1973.\nThe Manta came out in the 1974 model year and was a 4 seat coupe.\n\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\nMatthew R. Singer MIT Lincoln Laboratory\n(617) 981-3771 244 Wood Street\nsinger@ll.mit.edu Lexington, MA 02173", "We have seen lots of discussion on automobile engine configuration. Let me ask \na similar question from the aviation field. You must have seen images of prop \nplanes with all cylinders exposed. I have seen up to 8 cylinders positioned \nradially in a circular fashion with the prop at the center of the circle. \nThis arrangement always brings up a geometric dilemma. How can one crankshaft \nthrow accomodate 8 rods or are the pistons displaced but not visible from the \noutside.", "1954 MG-TF with frame-up restoration in early '70's - a local show winner!\nDriven very little and stored inside since then - mostly collected dirt &\ndust. Needs attention to brake cylinders (like all MG-T's) but otherwise\nready to run. Chrome & paint not fancy but it is mechanically excellent.\nThe engine, a 1250cc, was completely overhauled by a machine shop. It is\npriced at $12,000.\n\n1953 MG-TD Good shape but hasn't been run since '70's. Needs engine work,\nbut no rust and everything is with it including a top, side curtains and\ncarpet that were new and haven't seen the outdoors since the '70's. $9,500.\n\n1952 MG-TD Basket Case. I'd call it a parts car, but it's too good\nfor that. Everything seems to be there except the tach. Would make\na good project car or parts car if you insist. No apparent rust but the\nupholstery is a disaster. Stored inside since the '70's. The top was\nnew but now soso. This one has wire wheels! Looking for $4,500.\n\nAll three cars will be sold \"as they stand\" with no hassles or haggles.\nTime has passed by and it is time to part company. Prices are negotiable.\n\nReply via matthews@Oswego.oswego.edu or U.S. mail to: P. O. Box 1015\n 315-341-3501 Oswego, NY 13126\n\n\n-- ", "\n\nWe had those f*****g photo-radar things here in Sweden a while ago.\nThere was a lot of fuzz about them, and a lot of sabotage too (a spray-can\nwith touch-up paint can do a lot of good...).\n\nEventually they had to drop the idea as there were a lot of court-cases\nwhere the owner of the car could prove he didn't drive it at the time\nof speeding.\n\nI especially recall a case where it eventually proved to be a car-thief that\nhad stolen a car and made false plates. He, ofcourse, chose a license number\nof a identical car, so the photo seemed correct...\n\nIn conclosion: Photo-radar sucks, every way you look at it!", "For Sale: 1987 Honda XR-100R dirt bike. Bought new from dealer in\n 1989. Ridden only 4 hours, garage kept and well cared for.\n The bike is in MINT condition; perfect size for lady or\n young adult. price: $600 firm. You will not be disappointed.\n Ohio/Kentucky/Indiana inquiries preferred please.\n \n work: (513) - 576-5986. Leave voicemail please.", "Our firm is in a position to either sell or lease the serverses\nof one AN-12 air cargo transport aircraft (with the complete\ntechnical repair in 1993 ).\n\nTerms of Delivery:\n\n1. The price of the aircraft is $840000.\n\n2. The price of leasing is $42800 per month with the guarantee\n flight time more than 60 hours.\n\n This price includes :\n a) the price of the aircraft.\n b) the price of insurance of the aircraft and the pilots.\n\n The price of leasing does not include :\n a) the fuel price.\n b) the price of technical service.\n c) taxes , airport taxes, air navigations expenses, the\n payments of hangspace.\n d) loading, unloading and insurance cargo.\n e) days payments for pilot, food and accomodation\n expenses,transport expenses.\n\nTerms are negotiable.\n\nIf you are interested, please contact at your earliest convenients.\n\nRespectedly Yours.\n\nAndrey Divaev.\n\nMOSCOW tel: (095) 305-71-30 fax: (095) 305-72-60", "One point not yet mentioned:\n\tHands on the driver's shoulders are a definite no-no. It feels\ngood for the passenger to stretch her arms, and a shoulder massage feels\ngood too, but the shoulders are connected to the arms, and the arms to\nthe handlebars... Should you hit the brakes, the pressure on the shoulders\ncan make steering interesting.\n\nBundle her up if it's cold, make sure she has good gear (say it again),\nan pat her thigh to let her know all is great.", "\nTough question -- more dangerous than driving a car, and far more\ndangerous if you don't apply a modicum of intelligence to the \nactivity. Basically, stupidity will get you hurt/killed a lot\nfaster on a motorcycle than in a car. But with care, it is\nnot unreasonably dangerous. Also, buying good protective\nclothing is helpful, that way if something does go wrong,\nyou are likely to be less severely injured.\n\nFirst thing, if possible take a (MSF) driver training course,\nthis will get you started on the right foot -- they teach\ncontrol of the vehicle and safe riding practices.\n\nSecond, buy protective gear. At minimum a good helmet\nand a pair of leather gloves are a must. A good sturdy \npiece of footgear is also very helpful, though leather hiking\nboots, a pair of old army boots, or something similar works fine\nfor this purpose as long as you make sure the laces stay \ntied. After those, a leather jacket and leather pants or chaps\nare nice as well; but these are also expensive items. For the\npants, many people consider a good pair of jeans to be reasonable,\npreferably recent and of a fairly heavy weight. Similarly for\na jacket, a good jean jacket is a reasonable compromise, though\nmore people tend to have leather jackets around than pants. Another\nthing to do is drop in on garage sales looking for a second-hand\nleather jacket. Look for a fairly thick leather in these items.\n\nThird don't do anything stupid -- don't ride after \ndrinking, even one drink can noticeably affect you judgement\nand balance; don't ride in the snow, or when conditions\nare such that black ice is likely; be very careful riding\nin the rain -- slow way down, take corners gingerly, \nbrake early and gently; try not to ride if you are sick,\ntired, taking any medication with drowsiness warnings, or\notherwise not in average shape.\n\nWith care, you should be ok.\n\n\nI would suggest mid to late 80's japanese mid-sized standard.\nSomething in 400-650 cc range would probably be reasonable. If\nyou are shorter/lighter than average, you might want to go as\nlow as a 300-400 cc bike.\n\nPossible models: \nThe Suzuki GS### series (eg. GS500, GS650, etc.). These are generally\ninline 4 bikes, generally dependable except for a tendency to \nweakness in the charging system. (Stator and/or Regulator/Rectifier \nproblems.) My first bike was a (about '82) GS650, it server me well.\n\nThe Honda Nighthawk series (this may also be known as the CB### series\nI think). eg. Honda CB450, CB650, etc. This is another series of\nstandard motorcycles. Also fairly dependable.\n\nKawasaki and Yamaha probably have similar bikes, but I don't know\nthem as well.\n\nFor mid to late '80s models of the above, you should be able to\nbuy the bike for under $2000, leaving you money for protective \nclothing and insurance and licensing costs.", "I was whatching The History Of The Indy 500 the other day,\nand early in the film, around the '10-'20's, a name, Lois Chevrolet,\ncame out of the blue. I wanted to know if he is THE Chevrolet founder\nor mearly a driver who's name was called the same as the other guy's?:^)", "\n\nHmmm.. The LDDC security guards over here in Docklands only place parking \nstickers on the drivers SIDE windows.. But on reflection that could still \ncause an accident.. Suppose it's because people aren't as litigious over \nhere as in the states :-)\n\nStephen", "I'd like to converse with anyone who has purchased a 1993 Honda\nCivic about their experience. I'm new to the car buying game\nand would like to know what price I can expect to pay for a sedan\nafter bargaining.\n\nThanks in advance,", "Well, the Opel deal fell through...\n\nNow i'm looking at a Datsun 240Z for sale in our local buy&sell. Any\nprevious owners have any experience with these cars? Besides looking\nfor rust,good compression,low miles, and all the other usual car\nthings one looks for, is there anything special about these cars that\nI should watch out for?\n\nHow about things like handling,performance,mileage,etc. These cars\nlook hot, to my eyes at least, and bear more than a passing\nresemblance to the Aston Martin DB4 Zagato(sp?), which has to be one\nof the most beatiful cars ever made.", "\n\n*cough* *choke* WHAT?!? if a cop gave me a ticket for \"sounding\" like\ni was speeding i'd probably show up in court without a lawyer simply\nbecause \"sounding\" like speeding is ridiculous. if i was found guilty\ni'd appeal and then show up with a lawyer.\n\nif a cop doesn't do one of:\n\nVASCAR (from car or plane)\nRADAR, LIDAR, other electronic speed measuring device\npace me\n\nand i'm within 15mph or so of the limit i'd go to court. i can accept a\ncop \"seeing\" me going excessively fast (like 25+ over the limit) but\n\"he looked like he was going 70 or so in a 55 zone\" is not \"beyond a\nreasonable doubt\". granted i may well lose the case but 70 in a 55 measured\nby eye??? take it to court for sure.", "\n}|> There are two simple procedures for alterating any odometer.\n}|> \n}|> 1. Mechanical driven odometer:\n}|> Remove the speedo cable from the transmission.\n}|> Attach a drill and run at max speed until the speedo turns over.\n}|> Continue until the desired mileage is reached.\n}|> \n}|> 2. Electronically driven odometer:\n}|> Remove the sensor wire from the sensor.\n}|> Attach the Calibration out signal from an Oscope to the wire.\n}|> Run until the speedo turns over and attains the desired mileage.\n}\n}Dear Faster.. I kinda wonder.. have you ever tried version 2? On what?\n}Since the sensor wire on a BMW feeds also into the computer.. and we\n}don't know what signal voltage is expected from it.. bad things\n}*could* happen... also since we don't know the pulse rate, we\n}may damage the analog part of the speedo (yes.. BMW uses a combined\n}instrument.. speed in analog, trip and total milage is digital) with\n}the needle pegged up against the 160MPH stop..\n}\n}Just a thought...\n\nYou've got the oscilliscope, so you connect it up to the sensor wire\nand measure this stuff. That way you know what it expects.\n", "Or just dig a deep enough hole in the ground. 50 feet should do it.\n\n", "\n\tI just went through this mess in New Jersey (I'm still waiting for a\nrefund as well), namely, that the original company made a mistake and left me\nin the lurch. My recourse was through NJ's insurance dept. Office of Consumer\nProtection. You should have a similar office in your state. Make use of it.\n\nGood luck,", "I've recently become father of twins! I don't think I can afford\n to keep 2 bikes and 2 babies. Both babies are staying, so 1 of\n the Harleys is going.\n\n\t1988 883 XLHD\n\t~4000 mi. (hey, it was my wife's bike :-)\n\t4speed, chain secondary, laced wheels, buckhorns,\n\t tachometer, saddlebags & supports, sissy bar, SE\n\t high-flow air cleaner\n\tdark candy red\n\t$3700\n", "Hi from Australia,\n\nI am a car enthusiast in Australia.\n \nI am particularly interested in American Muscle cars of the \n1960s and 1970s. ALL MAKES: AMC, Ford, Chrysler/Mopar, GM.\n\nI will be in the USA for 6 weeks from May 2nd to -June 14 1993.\n\nChicago: Sun May 2 -Thursday May 6\nDenver: Friday May 7 - Sunday May 9\nAustin, Texas: Monday May 10- Friday May 21\nOklahoma City: Friday May 21 - Monday May 24\nAnaheim, California: Tuesday May 25-Thursday May 27\nLas Vegas, Nevada: Friday May 28- Sunday May 30\nGrand Canion, Monday May 31 - Tuesday June 1\nLas Angeles, San Diego and vicinity: Wednesday June 3-Sunday June 6 June\nSouth Lake Tahoe, Cal: Sunday June 6 - Wednesday June 9\nReno: Thursday June 10\nSan Fransisco: Thursday June 10 - Sunday June 13\n\n\nI was wondering if anyone could send me any information of \ncar shows, swap meets, drag meets, model car shows etc. during this period.\nCan anybody tell me when the Pomona Swap meet is on this year?\n\nAlso, any places to visit (eg. car museums, private collections, \nyour collection? etc. Any bit of information is appreciated!\n\nI am also interested in finding some model cars (scale Models). \nI am intersted in 1968-1974 AMC cars. Of particular interest is:\n1968-1970 AMX\n1968-1974 Javelin\n1969 SCRAMBLER\n1970 Rebel Machine\nand others\n\nIf you have any kits, plastics, diecast etc and are interested in selling them,\ntell me, I will be interested.\n\nI can also send/bring you models of Australian High performance cars if \nyou are interested.\n\n\nPlease reply by email to: johnt@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au\n\n\nThanks,", "\nNot to inject a non-automotive note to this thread, but the BMW opposed\ntwin used in motorcycles for a *long* time is and always has been known as\na \"boxer\". ", "\nOnly if he was a \"true motorcyclist with the real riding attitude.\" As you\nprobably are aware, there is a sure-fire rec.moto test for this attribute.\n\n\nWhy? You think (s)he's worried about road-rash?", "Could be due to the rear-end ratio also. \n\nUsually automatics have different rear-ends than manuals, from\nmy limited experience anyways.\n\nDavid\n\n", "\n\n\n\n\nWhat we currently know as the 240sx, is known elsewhere as a 200sx.\n\n\n ", "The Bmw speedo is triggered by a reed switch\\magnet assembly in the differential. I would think that this signal would be easy to reproduce.\n", "\n1) How was this testing done, and how many times? (Calibrated speedometer?)\n\n2) It's not the \"some cases\" that worry me, it's the \"other cases\" :-)", "\nWhat is \"aluminium siding\"? I keep seeing references to it. Something to do\nwith railway lines, perhaps?\n\nE-mail reply please, I'll never find it otherwise.", "OK,\n\n I saw a bike today and I want to know what it is. Lets begin\nby saying that its whole rear end was definately Hawk 650. Additionally,\nit had a CBR900RR style tank, full fairing, and only a tach. Now, at\nfirst I thought it was an 'RC31' (a Hawk modified by Two Brothers Racing),\nbut I did not think that they made this huge tank for it. Additionally,\nthe gauges were certainly not from a Hawk. They looked much more like \n900RR gauges. Overall, the bike looked like a 900RR except for the\nrear single-sided swingarm and wheel (there were straight from the Hawk)\n\nSo, what did I see?\n\n(PS, for any of you Boulder DoDers, I saw it parked at the Engineering\ncenter today. It is white with light green stripes.)\n", "\n\n That's because they took the old VT 500 engine and stepped on it to make\n the plant for the Hawk -> \"New Twin\". Or does that only fly for Microsoft\n NT (New Technology)?\n\n I've been at this too long today ...\n\n Cheers,\n Victor \"Dances with Hawks\" Johnson", "\n\nDave,\n\n\tWhat i recall from air craft maintence. Torqque and safety\nwires or cotters were more important, then if some bolt\nface were nicked up. If it was in bad shape you replaced it\nwith another $30, aircraft grade bolt. I can see adjustable spanners\neating up profit, but lives?", "\n\nI remember seeing an artical on large-engine oil \nrequirements, and one of the ways of prolonging\nthe life of the oil was to run through a heated\nun-presurized chamber to allow water and volitiles\nto boil off. This made such long-term usage of \noil practical.\n\nIsn't the Discovery channel great!?!\n", "=\n=\n=\n=\n=\n=\n The only thing about the 300ZX turbo and new Supra is they're about $10K or\n more over his budget...", "According to a LoJack representative I saw recently, LoJack must be installed by\nan authorized LoJack dealer, and is placed in one of (roughly) 30 spots in the\ncar...\n", "\n\njust to satiate my curiosity, why would this make you the stupid one? It seems\nto me, everybody SHOULD be aware enough of what is going on. You do not need\nto calculate the future position. You need to look at your mirrors a little\nmore. If you glance around, you will be able to tell how much faster than you\nthe car is going. Maybe not precisely, but well enough to know if you should\nlet him around before you try to pass. I know what you are talking about,\nabout the other driver being startled, because i myself have been startled\nby drivers cruising by at around 90-100mph when i'm doin 55-65. The problem,\nthough, as i saw it, was not their fault for barreling around me, but my fault\nfor not paying the attention to my task-at-hand that i should have been.\nOddly enough, since the 2nd time(happened 2x in around 4 mo. when i'd had my\nliscence for around 6 mo), i haven't been startled..and i've been passed by\ncars doing roughly twice the speed of my car. Another odd occurance is the\nfact that this only seems to happen on LONG trips...and if i drive along with\nthem, it doesn't happen at all :-) even on the long trips! :-) (adrenaline\nwill do that to you...i've had bad cop experiences with speeding, so anything\nover the limit is adrenalizing for me...scared i'll get caught :-) Maybe\nthey should raise the limit, so we can pay better attention.....\n\njust curious, and my .otwo", "\n\n\nWouldn't you rather have some type of standard \"electrical\" plug instead of \nthat \"fire hazard waiting to happen\" adaptor? I know I would, and I would \nalso prefer to have sensibly placed cup holders instead of an ashtray. (my \ncar came with coin holders already built in)", "\nSo you think a 93 Mustang Cobra can match the performance of a new Z28??\nInteresting belief! \n\nCraig\n\n(who neither owns, nor wants to own any GM or Ford product)", "\nOh horse puckey. Without their cop partner in attendance, they are less likely\nto be controllable *without* the use of force which would kill the dog.\n\n\nO.k. so you've disabled the dog's mouth, and given up use of your arm to do\nso. How `bout them front and read paws, and the fact that to plug up that \nmouth you've given the dog the advantage of balance...\n\n\nHave you ever tried to snap leg or crush the skull of a dog without use of \nhardened instruments such as a baseball bat? Without the use of both arms and\nfull cooperation of the beastie involved, it's not *that* easy. Oh, but wait,\nyou've got your arm shoved in the dogs mouth. You lose....\n\n\nOh *now* you qualify you earlier statement by saying a *trained* human. \n\n\nMost people here have not been trained to deal with a dog that wants to maul\nyou. get a clue.\n", "And here's my two cents:\n\nThe best convertible for the money, IMO, is the Miata. Yes, it's small, but\nyou're buying it as a second car, I hope, so you don't need the cargo room\nof a big car. It's got enough power for fun, it's RWD like a sports car\nought to be (I'm gonna regret that :-{) and the top, while manual, operates\nlike a dream. 30 seconds and one hand to lower, and not much longer to raise.\n\nThe targa-type cars are nice, but they're not real convertibles.\n\n--", "\n\tI agree that a fully-loaded SL2 would come close in price to a\nLOWER-END Ford Taurus. A FULLY-LOADED Taurus, on the other hand, would still\nbe substantially more expensive than even the most glitzy SL2. A fully loaded\nSL2 would run somewhere around $17,000, while a fully loaded Taurus LX would be\nsomewhere around the $22,000-$23,000 range. A base Taurus (GL I believe) might\nstart around $15,000. Of course there is the Taurus SHO which can push $30,000\nif you really try, but this is a totally different car than your mainstream\nTaurus sedan. Your statement was not entirely faulty, just a little\ninaccurate.\n\n\nWell, that's ok. At least you're not bitching about dealer profits like some\nof the other netters are. You seem to have rationally picked out the car that\nis best for you. The Loyale is an aging design that is about to be replaced by\nthe Impreza wagon, so you probably got a good deal on one of the last ones.\n", "HONDA ACCORD FOR SALE\n =====================\n\n- 4 Dr, Steel Grey, 1984 Honda Accord. \n- ~ 139K miles\n- 5 speed (manual) gives around 30mpg\n- Brand new clutch (installed last month)\n- Original owner\n- AM/FM (Cassette doesn't work), A/C, Cruise Control\n- $2500/b.o\n- Runs great. Reason for selling: Recently purchased a new car", "\nWell, it's closer to Bryce than Bryce is to Arches. I'd spend a lot\nof time studying the maps, there's a lot of \"you can't get there from\nhere\" in that area. You might want to hit the Grand Canyon on the way\nup from California, loop around to Canyonlands/Moab/Arches, and then\nback down towards Bryce & Zion on the way home.\n\nMake sure you ride US 12 between Capitol Reef and Bryce, it's been on a\nnumber of \"top 10 roads\" lists.\n\n\nA nice booklet detailing a lot of interesting paved (Byways) and unpaved\n(Backways) roads can be ordered from the Utah Travel Council. I think\nyou can also get a state map from them just for asking.\n\nUtah Byways and Backways\n$4.00 (US)\n\nUtah Travel Council\nCouncil Hall\nCapitol Hill\nSalt Lake City, UT 84114\n\n(801) 583-1030", "hey... I'm pretty new to the wonderful world of motorcycles... I just\nbought\na used 81 Kaw KZ650 CSR from a friend.... I was just wondering what kind of\n\nsaddle bags I could get for it (since I know nothing about them) are there\nbags for the gas tank? how much would some cost, and how much do they\nhold?\nthanks for your advice!!! I may be new to riding, but I love it\nalready!!!!\n:)\n\n", "Hi\n\nI t was very nice out yesterday in the 'burgh, so i rode my bike\nto my gynecologist appointment. When he came in to do the exam,\nhe noticed my helmet sitting on a chair. He got excited and picked it up \nand started asking all sorts of questions about bikes and dealers in the \narea and the MSF course. Apparently he rode a friends 125 for a\nwhile years ago and recently the bug to ride caught him again.\n\nNeedless to say, I had never before talked about bikes so much in\nsuch a position, if ya know what I mean :->\n\n", "My previous posting on dog attacks must have generated some bad karma or\nsomething. I've weathered attempted dog attacks before using the\napproved method: Slow down to screw up dog's triangulation of target,\nthen take off and laugh at the dog, now far behind you. This time, it\ndidn't work because I didn't have time. Riding up the hill leading to my\nhouse, I encountered a liver-and-white Springer Spaniel (no relation to\nthe Springer Softail, or the Springer Spagthorpe, a close relation to\nthe Spagthorpe Viking). Actually, the dog encountered me with intent to\nharm.\n\nBut I digress: I was riding near the (unpainted) centerline of the\nroughly 30-foot wide road, doing between forty and sixty clicks (30 mph\nfor the velocity-impaired). The dog shot at me from behind bushes on the\nleft side of the road at an impossibly high speed. I later learned he\nhad been accelerating from the front porch, about thirty feet away,\nheading down the very gently sloped approach to the side of the road. I\nsaw the dog, and before you could say SIPDE, he was on me. Boom! I took\nthe dog in the left leg, and from the marks on the bike my leg was\ndriven up the side of the bike with considerable force, making permanent\nmarks on the plastic parts of the bike, and cracking one panel. I think\nI saw the dog spin around when I looked back, but my memory of this\nmoment is hazy.\n\nI next turned around, and picked the most likely looking house. The\napologetic woman explained that the dog was not seriously hurt (cut\nmouth) and hoped I was not hurt either. I could feel the pain in my\nshin, and expected a cool purple welt to form soon. Sadly, it has not.\nSo I'm left with a tender shin, and no cool battle scars!\n\nInterestingly, the one thing that never happened was that the bike never\nmoved off course. The not inconsiderable impact did not push the bike\noff course, nor did it cause me to put the bike out of control from some\ngut reaction to the sudden impact. Delayed pain may have helped me\nhere, as I didn't feel a sudden sharp pain that I can remember.\n\nWhat worries me about the accident is this: I don't think I could have\nprevented it except by traveling much slower than I was. This is not\nnecessarily an unreasonable suggestion for a residential area, but I was\nriding around the speed limit. I worry about what would have happened if\nit had been a car instead of a dog, but I console myself with the\nthought that it would take a truly insane BDI cager to whip out of a\nblind driveway at 15-30 mph. For that matter, how many driveways are\nlong enough for a car to hit 30 mph by the end?\n\nI eagerly await comment.\n\nRyan Cousinetc.|1982 Yamaha Vision XZ550 -Black Pig of Inverness|Live to Ride\nKotRB |1958 AJS 500 C/S -King Rat |to Work to\nDoD# 0863 |I'd be a squid if I could afford the bike... |Flame to\nryan.cousineau@compdyn.questor.org | Vancouver, BC, Canada |Live . . .\n\n\n * SLMR 2.1a * \"He's hurt.\" \"Dammit Jim, I'm a Doctor -- oh, right.\"\n ", "\n1992 HONDA ACCORD FOR SALE\n35,000 MILES\nALL HIGHWAY MILES\nEXCELLENT CONDITION\nWHITE\nEX MODEL \"LOADED\"\n$15,000 OR BEST OFFER\ncall tom @ (201) 653-0638 h\n (201) 795-5636 w\n\n", "\n\nActually the reasons you don't see so many cooling towers at fossil plants are\n1) fossil units (multiple units per plant) are generally smaller than\nnuclear plants. 300 MWe seemed to be a very popular size when many\nfossil plants were built. The average nuclear plant is 1000 MWe. 2) many\nfossil plants were grandfathered when water discharge regulations were\nadopted (\"why those old dirt burners can't harm anything, let 'em go.\"). \n3) powered draft cooling towers, low enough to the ground to be generally\nnot visible from off-site, are quite popular with fossil plants. 4) fossil\nplants used to get much less regulatory attention than nuclears.\n\n\n\nActually the condensing environment is essentially the same for plants\nof similar size. The issues are the same regardless of where the \nheat comes from. Condensers are run at as high a vacuum as possible in\norder to reduce aerodynamic drag on the turbine. The condenser pressure is\nnormally water's vapor pressure at the condensing temperature. It is\ndesirable that the steam exhaust be free of water droplets because \nmoisture in the steam causes severe erosion damage to the turbine \nlow pressure blades and because entrained water moving at high velocity\ncauses erosion of the condenser tubes. The coldest and thus lowest\npressure condensing environment is always the best. \n\nA related issue is that of pumping the condensate from the hotwell (where\nthe water ends up after dripping off the condenser tubes.) Since the\ncondenser is at a very low pressure, the only force driving the \ncondensate into the hotwell pumps is gravity. If the condensate is too \nhot or the gravity head is too low, the condensate will reflash into\nsteam bubbles and cause the condensate pumps to cavitate. This is a\nparticularly destructive form of cavitation that is to be avoided at all\ncosts. \n\nThe hotwell pumps are located in the lowest point in the plant\nin order to provide a gravity head to the pumps. How much lower \nthey must be is a function of how hot the water is allowed to get in\nthe hotwell. Typically hotwell temperatures run between 100 and 120 \ndegrees depending on the temperature of the river water (this term is\nused to describe the river grade water even when the cooling tower\nsystem is operating in closed loop mode and essentially no river water\nis pumped.) When the river water temperature is high in the summer,\noperators will typically allow the hotwell level to rise in order \nto provide more gravity head. There is a tradeoff involved since higher\nhotwell levels will encroach onto the condensing tubes and reduce the\ncondenser area.\n\nAt least in the East and elsewhere where moisture actually exists in the\nair :-), the river water will almost always be cooler than the discharge\nwater from the cooling towers. The temperature of the discharge water\nfrom the cooling towers is set by the ambient air temperature and\nhumidity. It is very rare in the East to hear of actual river water\ntemperatures exceeding 70 degrees. A vast difference from the typical\n\"95-95\" days (95 degrees, 95% humidity) we see routinely in the East.\nIt is not unusual, particularly where the econazis have been successful\nin clamping rigid discharge water temperature limits on a plant, for the\nplant to have to reduce the firing rate when the air temperature gets\ntoo high and the condenser cannot handle the heat load without excessive\npressure.\n\n\nTrue. Actually secondary plant (the part that makes electricity and\nfeeds feedwater to the boiler) water chemistry has been the bastard \nstepchild until recently and has not gotten the respect it deserves.\nThe plant chemists have just in the past decade or so fully understood\nthe costs of impure water. By \"impure\", I mean water with a few\ndozen extra micromho of conductivity and/or a few PPM of dissolved\noxygen. Secondary water is now typically the most pure one will \nfind outside the laboratory.\n\nJohn", "For sale : Red Honda Scooter (150cc)\n\nNeed m/c license\nMax speed - 63 mph\nGas mileage - 74 mpg\nMax wt - 250 lbs\nOdo. reading - 3000 miles\n - it has only been out of the factory for 3 years\n - very low mileage\nOriginal Owner - all paperwork available\nVery thorough tune-ups quarterly\nYear - 1986\nBody - Not a scratch, garaged and covered always\nCover and 2 helmets included\nGood for student or light commuter or for fun :)\n$1300 or best offer\n\ne-mail or call in evenings \nSusan Hodapp\n(919)833-8431", ": Could somebody explain to me what a centrifuge is and what it is\n: used for? I vaguely remembre it being something that spins test tubes\n: around really fast but I cant remember why youd want to do that?\n\n\nPurely recreational. They get bored sitting in that\nrack all the time.\n\n\n", "\nHow about those toneau covers? I've been thinking of building one\nfrom chipboard for roadtrips. Any comment on how they affect\nmileage in highway travel?\n\nCharles", "In my opinion, the limited tort option is the best thing Casey has ever\ndone. Basically, limited tort means that you give up your right to sue\nfor pain and suffering, unless one of the following conditions is met:\n1. Your medical bills resulting from the accident exceed $X (where X is\nsome number like 50,000 -- I'm not sure of the exact number)\n\n2. The accident was caused by a drunk driver (I mean, the OTHER driver\nwas drunk)\n\n3. You get a good lawyer and have a good case (basically, you can appeal\nto regain your right to sue, but there's almost no chance of this ever\nhappening).\n\nYou are only giving up your right to sue for pain and suffering; you can\nstill sue for medical costs, actual damages, etc. By agreeing to limited\ntort, you are essentially giving up your right to be an asshole who\ntreats every accident as an entry into the litigation lottery. In\nexchange, you get a substantial reduction in your rates. I save\n$150/year.", "\n(not that logic has anything to do with it, but...)\nI can see the liability of putting stickers on the car while it was moving,\nor something, but it's the BDI that chooses to start and then drive the car\nin a known unsafe condition that would (seem to be) liable. Furthermore, they\nwould have had the last chance to avoid an unsafe situation, which is an\nadditional factor in attributing \"blame\".\n\nAnyway, stickers on the window are less effective... no one has any problem\ntaking a blade to a window to remove a stubborn sticker, but it's a different\nstory with that that nice paint job on the door....\n\n\t*jeff*", "\nWell, I'd say you're mostly right, but for different reasons. (BTW, as of a\ncouple years ago, the most stolen bikes in Orange County and SF were 750\nGSX's and Ninjas). Probably the biggest reason BMWs aren't ripped off is that\nmost people who buy BMWs will only deal with the actual BMW dealer, or mail-\norder types. Most of these can have their inventory checked fairly easily\nby law-enforcement types, and their mark-up is usually sufficient to keep \nthem honest about acquiring parts. \n\nFor Harleys and rice-rockets, you've got 2 different situations. There is a\nHUGE aftermarket in Harley parts, so a bike can be parted out fairly easily.\nDitto the non-sport Japanese bikes, but the prices on the parts for these are\nnot as high, comparatively. For the 'rockets', anytime a bike goes down, the \nplastic is usually cracked, and is expensive to replace. It's fairly easy,\nthen, for a disreputable shop to take a fairing from a stolen bike, slap it\non a bike in for repair, repaint it, and make a tidy profit. The other parts,\nmore traceable, can be used, or discarded if they are too traceable.\n\nMike", "\nNever had any problem with mine...\n\nAre you *SURE* the nut/bolt you are trying is really a 1/2\" hex? 13mm\nis just slightly larger... and a 1/2 wrench won't fit on a GM 13mm\nnut (my 91 GMC pickup has several 13mm nuts on it... really annoying, metric\nthreads too. Seems that most of the body is metric, most of the engine is\nSAE).\n\n", "\n: The next question is how shall I carry the thing on the bike, given\n: the metal frame and all. I have a big backrest (approx 12\" high) and\n: was hoping that I would be able to bungee cord the backpack to the backrest.\n\n: Any one have any experiences on such experimentation?\n\nPut the pack on the pillion and bungee it to the backrest.\nIf that is not possible then you should be able to bungee it behind the\nbackrest, just make sure it doesn't bend or break anything like the rear\nfender or turnsignals.\n--", "\nOh come on, Silly, all you have to do is cut a hole in your hood and \nput a tube there so you can get to the oil fill hole. What do you\nthink all those big air intake things are for on those hot-rod cars?\nThey're just for looks only...little does anyone know, they provide\naccess to the oil-fill hole.", "I want to get a car alarm and I am thinking about getting an Ungo Box.\n Does anyone out there have any knowledge or experience with any of\n these alarms? How about price ranges for the different models?\n Are these good car alarms? Please email me any responces.\n\n cak3@ns3.lehigh.edu", "x>>\nx>>>> Fake convertible roofs and vinyl roofs.\nx>>>> Any gold trim.\nx >\nx>>> These, I will agree, are abominations, right along with the fake\nx>>>continental spare-tire kit -- it's sad watching those little old ladies\nx>>>try to load their groceries into the trunk with that huge tire-medallion\nx>>>in the way.\nx>>> Most pitiful fake convertible top: on a \"Cadillac\" Cimarron, with\nx>>>all the chrome door trim still visible -- not fooling *anyone*.\nx>>>Of course, there was that Hyundai Excel I once saw...\nx>>\nLeast you think bad taste is something new:\nBack in the early 1970s I saw a couple of cars with *flocked* paint jobs.\nThats not a typo. I think they sprayed on some kind of glue then blew\non tiny pieces of nylon. It comes out looking like felt. Can you picture\na huge Plymouth Fury III in dark blue felt? I think I can even remember\none guy who did it in red to a early 1960s Corvette. That was after he had\nturned it into a station wagon.\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\nMack Costello Code 65.1 (formerly 1720.1)\nDavid Taylor Model Basin, Carderock Division Hq. NSWC ___/-\\____\nBethesda, MD 20084-5000 Phone (301) 227-2431 (__________>|", "\n\nIn addition to restricted mileage, many classic insurance carriers also require\nthat the vehicle be garaged when not in use.\n\n$0.02\n\nEricy\n", "\nCar and Driver rated the 325is (1988) at 7.2 0-60 , 1/4 at 15.2 (after 30k miles) last time I checked 8#}.\n\nAutomobile magazine rated new 325is 1/4 mile@16.2.\n\nGee , aint quotiin funner than the dickens!\n\nSounds like we need a race. I'll let you have the newer version. Can someone out there lend me a 1988 325is for a day 8-]. I wont hurt it, I promise.\n", "Actually I wasn't too surprised, since I bought it with the rust. Any of you \ngot some ideas of getting rid of this CHEAPLY (key word)?? It has eaten all \nthe\nway through on the door panels. Can I use Bondo? \n \nAlso, is there a good paint that will bond to Aluminum rims? The paint thati\nwas on my rims has peeled off, actually, there's some rust looking 'stuff' on\nthe rims themselves... but it comes off pretty easily. \n \nOne more thing...\nHave any of you done self-painting to a car? How do you start? What do I need\nto do this?", "It is actually simple in principle. Porous adsorbents like zeolite and\nactivated carbon can adsorb gases evaporated from the adsorbate (water\nor methanol, etc.) giving the cooling effect. Upon being heated, the \ngas-saturated adsorbent bed will give off the gases which are then to be\ncondensed. This forms the adsorption refrigeration cycle. The only problem\nis that the COP is very low (0.2 -0.6). \n\nMax\n", "I recently posted an article asking what kind of rates single, male\ndrivers under 25 yrs old were paying on performance cars. Here's a summary of\nthe replies I received.\n \n \n \n \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n \nI'm not under 25 anymore (but is 27 close enough).\n \n1992 Dodge Stealth RT/Twin Turbo (300hp model).\nNo tickets, no accidents, own a house, have taken defensive driving 1,\nairbag, abs, security alarm, single.\n \n$1500/year $500 decut. State Farm Insurance (this includes the additional $100\nfor the $1,000,000 umbrella policy over my car and house) The base\npolicy is the standard $100,000 - $100,000 - $300,000 policy required in DE.\n \nAfter 2nd defensive driving course it will be 5% less.\n \nI bought the car in September 1992. The company I was with (never had\nand accident or ticket in 11 years) quoted me $2,500.\n \nHope this helps.\n \nSteve Flynn\nUniversity of Delaware\n======================================================================== 45\n \n Kevin:\n \n (Hope I remembered your name correctly)...\n \n You asked about insurance for performance cars. Well, last year\n I was in a similar situation before I bought my car, and made the\n same inquiry as you.\n \n Age: 24 (then and now)\n Car: 1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD\n Driving Record: Clean\n State: Illinois\n Cost: $820/6 mos.\n \n I turn 25 in May and the insurance goes down to $520/6 mos.\n Also, I'm single and that incurs a higher rate with my company.\n \n I've got a couple other friends w/ AWDs and they pay more\n than I do (different ins. companies also), so maybe I'm just lucky.\n \n Hope the info helps.\n \n Dan\n [dans@jdc.gss.mot.com]\n Motorola Cellular Subscriber Group\n \n======================================================================== 38\n USA\nCc:\n \nI'm 23; live in Norman, Oklahoma; drive an '89 Thunderbird SC; have\nnever made a claim against my insurance (though I have been hit\nseveral times by negligent drivers who couldn't see stop signs or\nwere fiddling with their radios); and I have had three moving violations\nin the last 18 months (one for going 85 in a 55; one for \"failure to\nclear an intersection\" (I still say the damn light was yellow); and\none for going 35 in a 25 (which didn't go on my record)). My rates\nfrom State Farm (with a passive restraint deduction) on liability,\n$500 deductible comprehensive, and $500 deductible collision are\nroughly $1300/year. (I was paying just over $1100/year for a '92 Escort LX.)\n \n\t\t\t\tJames\n \nJames P. Callison Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center\nCallison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu /\\ Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu\nDISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...\n\t\tThe forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC\n \"It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has\n\tand all he's ever gonna have.\"\n\t\t\t--Will Munny, \"Unforgiven\"\n======================================================================== 61\n \nI am beyond the \"under 25\" age group, but I have an experience a few\nyears ago that might be interesting to you. I owned a 1985 Toyota Celica\nGT. I decided to buy myself a gift - a more exotic car. Front runners\nincluded the Toyota Supra Turbo and the Porsche 924 (1987 model years).\nI narrowed it down to those two. I liked the simplicity and handling\n(and snob appeal, too) of driving a Porsche. The Supra Turbo was less\nmoney and had more features and performance - almost a personal luxury\ncar. It had better acceleration and a higher top speed than the 924.\nI was almost ready to give in to a buying impulse for the 924, but i\ndecided to stop by my insurance agent's office on the way. I asked\nabout what would happen to my rate with either car.\n \n\"If you buy the Supra, your rate classification will be the same as\nthe Celica (the '85 Celica was considered a subcompact and for that\nyear was rated as one of the safest cars), with a slight increase because\nthe car will be 2 years newer. Our lower-risk division will continue\nto handle your account.\n \n\"If you buy the Porsche 924, we'll have to change you to the standard\n[higher] rate company and your rate will double. And if you go with\na 944, it's another story again - we'll cover the rest of this year,\nbut cancel you after that.\"\n \n\"But the Supra is much faster than the 924, and the 924 is actually\nfaster than the [standard] 944. That doens't make sense.\"\n \n That's what the book says. We don't insure Corvettes, either. For\nsome reason, the underwriters consider Supras - and their drivers -\nas very traditional and conservative.\"\n \nI eventually went with the Supra for a number of reasons. The Porsche\ndealer had a nice salesman to get me interested, but a tough high-pressure\nguy in the back room. At equal monthly payments, it would have taken\na year longer to pay for the Porsche, plus its higher insurance. I\nconcluded that the high insurance was related to probability of auto\ntheft.\n \n /|/| /||)|/ /~ /\\| |\\|)[~|)/~ | Everyone's entitled to MY opinion.\n / | |/ ||\\|\\ \\_|\\/|_|/|)[_|\\\\_| | goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil\n========Imagination is more important than knowledge. - Albert Einstein=======\n \n \n \n \n \n======================================================================== 32\n \nI live in Idaho. When I was <26 many years ago (10 years) I bought a Trans\nAm (new). Insurance was about $1300/year. When I turned 26, it immediately\ndropped to $460/year. I had not had any accidents before or after, this was\nstrictly an age change. That same rate stayed pretty much the same until I\nsold the car 2 years ago. My F-150 pickup is about $80/year less.\n \nThe real amazing thing is that when I woke up at age 25, I felt SO MUCH MORE\nRESPONSIBLE than I was before... :-)\n \nWes\n \n======================================================================== 21\n \n \nFor your information:\nCalifornia\nMale, single, under 25 , No moving violation\nAlfa Spider\n =======> $2000 / year\n \nWhat a bargain!!!\n======================================================================== 28\n \nLet's see, I'm 24, single, male, clean driving record. I have a 92 VW COrrado\nVR6. I live in San Jose, California. I pay ~1500$ a year through Allstate. A\ngood deal if you ask me.\n \nI was thinking about getting a Talon, but I think the insurance is higher\nfor a \"turbo\" sports car vs a V6\n \n-W\n \n======================================================================== 27\n \n1986 Honda CRX Si, clean record, in a small New Mexico town was around $800\nper year, age 24.\n \nNearby city rates were 1.5X-2X higher than where I've got mine insured.\n \n..robert\n--\nRobert Stack / Institute of Transportation Studies, Univ of California-Irvine\n stack@translab.its.uci.edu '92 Mazda Protege LX\n======================================================================== 37\n1300 per year, 1992 Saturn SC, 21 Years old, State: New Mexico,\nInsurance: State Farm.\n \n \n======================================================================== 64\n \n \nHere is my info:\n \nCar : '89 Toyota Celica ST\nInsurance Co : Farmer's Insurance\nYearly insurance: $2028\nAge : 24\nDate of license : Oct 14, 1992\nResidence : Mountain View, California\nNo moving violations (for now atleast ;-)\n \nHope this helps. Please post a summary if possible.\n \nVijay\n**********************************************************************\nVijay Anisetti\nEmail: anisetti@informix.com Apt: (415)962-0320 Off: (415)926-6547\n======================================================================== 38\nSingle, 24 years old, Eagle Talon Turbo AWD, $1200 (full-cover, reasonable\n liability)\nNo tickets, No violations, No accidents... (knock on wood...)\nMass,\n \n\tOne thing that makes a HUGE difference in MASS is the town you live in.\nI'm personally in one of the best towns within reasonable distance\nof Boston. If I moved to the absolute best it would go down to about\n$1150, if I moved to the worst it would be $2000+..\n \n\tAlso one accident and a couple of tickets, would probably add another $600...\n \n \n\t_RV\n \n \n======================================================================== 43\nI have a 1990 Mitsubishi eclipse turbo awd, am 23 years old and have no\ntickets that went on my record. I live in Illinois just outside of Chicago\nand pay $1560 a year with full coverage at State Farm. I did get a small\ndiscount because of my alarm system($30 a year). I only live 15 miles from\nChicago but if I actually lived in the city the price would be about $2000\na year.\n======================================================================== 41\nI'm over 25, but in case you're interested anyway, I'm insuring a 93 SHO\nfor $287/6 month. Thats 100k personal+300k total+100k property with\n250 deductible, glass and towing, State Farm.\n \n======================================================================== 39\n \nUnless you are under 20 or have been driving for less than 5\nyears, I think you are being seriously ripped off. I don't have\none of the performance cars you listed, but if your record is\nclean, then you should not be paying over $2K.\n \nDid you try calling all the insurance dealers you could find?\nAlthough rates are supposed to be standardized, I've found that\nmost places I initially call, give me some ridiculously high\nquote and *finaly*, I hit one that is much lower.\n \nAlso, I have changed insurance companies when the rate went up at\nrenewal (no accidents, tickets, car gets older??) to maintain a low\nrate. You always have to be careful when it comes to insurance\ncompanies 8^).", "\n\nDon't forget Robert Blake in \"Electra Glide in Blue\" (where else do\nyou get to see a full-dress Harley playing with dirt bikes?).\nAnd if you're going to count Smokey and the Bandit, then you darn\nwell better include \"Pee-Wee's Big Adventure\".\n\n\n", "\nEven if they somehow address this issue it is unlikely to be the only\nback door in -- they might even have a few intentionally visible to\ndistract from the ones that aren't visible.\n\n--\nPerry Metzger\t\tpmetzger@shearson.com", "\nI actually saw this movie about three months ago, but it wasn't called\nEASY WHEELS. It was something else that escapes me at the moment but\nI did rent it from Blockbuster Video and it was a hoot, in the same\nclass as Plan 9 From Outer Space.\n", "It's great that all these other cars can out-handle, out-corner, and out-\naccelerate an Integra.\n\nBut, you've got to ask yourself one question: do all these other cars have\na moonroof with a sliding sunshade? No wimpy pop-up sunroofs or power\nsliding roofs that are opaque. A moonroof that can be opened to the air,\nclosed to let just light in, or shaded so that nothing comes in.\n\nYou've just got to know what's important :^).", "Mark Kromer, on the Thu, 15 Apr 1993 00:42:46 GMT wibbled:\n\n: >Does the \"amount of exhaust allowed to leave the engine through the\n: >exhaust pipe\" make that much of a difference? the amount of air/fuel\n: >mixture that a cylender sucks in (tries to suck in) depends on the\n: >speed of the piston when it goes down. \n\n: ...and the pressure in the cylinder at the end of the exhaust stroke.\n\n: With a poor exhaust system, this pressure may be above atmospheric.\n: With a pipe that scavenges well this may be substantially below\n: atmospheric. This effect will vary with rpm depending on the tune of\n: the pipe; some pipes combined with large valve overlap can actually\n: reverse the intake flow and blow mixture out of the carb when outside\n: the pipes effective rev range.\n\n: >Now, my question is which one provides more resistence as far as the\n: >engine is conserned:\n: >) resistance that the exhaust provides \n: >) or the resistance that results from the bike trying to push itself and\n: > the rider\n\n: Two completely different things. The state of the pipe determines how\n: much power the motor can make. The load of the bike determines how\n: much power the motor needs to make.\n\n: --\n: - )V(ark)< FZR400 Pilot / ZX900 Payload / RD400 Mechanic \n: You're welcome.\n\nWell I, for one, am so very glad that I have fuel injection! All those \nneedles and orifices and venturi and pressures... It's worse than school human\nbiology reproduction lessons (sex). Always made me feel a bit queasy.\n--\n\nNick (the Simple Minded Biker) DoD 1069 Concise Oxford Tube Rider\n\nM'Lud.", "Followup-To:kedz@wpi.wpi.edu \nDistribution: ne\nOrganization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute\nKeywords: \n\nI am looking for an inexpensive motorcycle, nothing fancy, have to be able to do all maintinence my self. looking in the <$400 range.", ":In article <0096B294.AAD9C1E0@uinpla.npl.uiuc.edu> reimer@uinpla.npl.uiuc.edu \n:> In article <1qkftjINNoij@cronkite.cisco.com>, pitargue@cisco.com (Marciano \n:> \n:> [stuff deleted about causes of people in ER]\n:> \n:> >due to automobile accidents and automobile crimes. maybe we should outlaw\n:> >cars.\n:> There are a lot of automobile accidents, but atleast there is some\n:> regulation to try to combat this. \n:\n:Such as? Drunk drivers get back on the road in no time, to kill again. Seems \n:the driver's license process does not work for this.\n:\nI can testify to this. My cousin spent a few weeks in the hospital, and his\nfriend was killed, because of a drunk driver. The son-of-a-b**** is back on \nthe streets... Officers from the scene are still p***ed about that one.\n\n:> to take a drivers safety class. \n:\n:Because you wanted one while you were underage.\n:\n:> I HAVE to be licensed to drive. \n:\n:Only on public roads.\n:\n:> My car\n:> MUST be registered. \n:\n:Only if it is to be driven on public roads, other than between segments of my \n:property.\n:\n:> I MUST (at least where I live) have liability\n:> insurance on both myself driving and my car (if someone else had an\n:> accident with it). \n:\n:Only on public roads.\nAnd this obviously doesn't always work, else why would they offer uninsured \nmotorist coverage?\n:\n:> Hmm, wouldn't manditory saftey classes, registration\n:> of both the owner and gun, and manditory liability insurance be nice for\n:> gun owners.\nI object to mandatory registration because I don't trust my government not to\nuse any information I give them for their own purposes. I am licensed to\ncarry a concealed pistol in my home state, but they never asked whether I \nactually owned a firearm. A safety class before issuing a permit to carry is\nreasonably, provided such classes are regularly available to the public. Of\ncourse, most places would consider my time in the reserves and on a competition\nrifle team to count. \n:\n:Perhaps, if it gave them permission to shoot in public roads and parks. :-)\nHey, now that's an idea :)\n:\n:> Paul Reimer\n:\n:Jim\n\nNow, unless you have an agenda against private ownership of firearms, why would\nyou want to harass the person trying to legally defend themselves or exercise \ntheir rights? (I know, defending oneself/family/whoever IS a right... at least\nas far as my 9mm and I are concerned... ) (Also as far as the State of Alabama\nseems to be concerned) Why don't you push for stricter prosecution of those\nwho use firearms in the commission of a crime? I've already pointed out how\nwe aren't nailing DUI's hard enough... Comparing the US with other countries\nseldom works, but the European attitude towards alchohol and DUI seems to work..\nTheir attitude towards weapons isn't really a valid comparison because they've\nhistorically done their best to keep the populace disarmed and submissive,\nwhile our country was founded by a bunch of rugged individualists who told the\nEuropean monarchies (for the most part) to take a flying leap (used more polite\nlanguage though). We even weaseled out of our first international treaty, and\nthen convinced the French that it was in their best interests not to complain..\nBut first we had to overcome the fact that the Brits were doing their best to \nrestrict us to squirrel guns and such, so we'd be properly submissive while\nthey forced us to pay for their wars. Of course, most American history classes\nthese days tend to gloss over facts that do not fit the image they wish to \nconvey... I'm glad my Amer. Hist. teacher was a Libertarian who had us review\na good portion of the Federalist Papers, and debate their origins and meanings.\n\nenough rambling,\n\nJames\n\n", "\nWell, the problem just _might_ be that you can't buy any of these bikes in\nNorth America. (Except the GSXR 400 -> Bandit 400)", "CBD>From: Christopher Bradley Devlin \n\nCBD>>but it's nothing compared to the (ahem) unique helmet\nCBD>>design seen in the new Animated Series: it has a huge opening for his\nCBD>>mouth, topped by the world's tiniest eyeslits above the enormous mouth\nCBD>>opening. Batman's helmet probably cuts you down to about 12 degrees of\nCBD>>unrestricted vision. With a helmet like this, he might just be better\nCBD>>off with the leather cap/mask thingy.\n\nCBD>C'mon, Batman doesn't need to SEE. He's Batman.\n\nCBD>Did you notice he only takes the bike out in the snow or rain?\n\nSo let's see what we have on the Batdude so far: He has a weird helmet.\nHe drags his knee in corners (thanks, Cookson, but how does he do it?\nHidden Bat-pucks?), and he only takes the bike out in the snow or rain.\nAlso, he lets Robin ride! I think I could have used a Bat-mom. Would\nhave made getting my license a lot easier!\n\nThere's a trend here: Stylish helmet, Stylish knee-dragging, rides only\nin Stylish cartoon precipitation. Hmm . . . Could it be that we're\ndealing with a veritable airborne mammalian poseur? Dare I say it, a\nBAT-SQUID?? (huh? Bat-Squid?) It all adds up now . . .\n\nLet's make the B-man an honorary DoD DuDe. All he needs is a DoD\nsticker.\n\nActually, anyone have an address for Batman's current artists, both\ncomic book and animated series? We'll write and ask if Batman would like\nto become an honorary Denizen! Yeah!\n\nSpecial To The KoTL: Is there a precedent for inducting an imaginary\nmember with an imaginary motorcycle? Having seen the computers in the\nBat-Cave, I think we can safely assume that he also has imaginary\nInternet access.\n\nRyan Cousinetc.|1982 Yamaha Vision XZ550 -Black Pig of Inverness|Live to Ride\nKotRB |1958 AJS 500 C/S -King Rat |to Work to\nDoD# 0863 |I'd be a squid if I could afford the bike... |Flame to\nryan.cousineau@compdyn.questor.org | Vancouver, BC, Canada |Live . . .\n\n\n * SLMR 2.1a * My (virtual) reality check just bounced.\n ", "\nIf your distance calc is correct for an \"on the road distance\" (and not\nas the crow flies), this is 900km a day for 5 days. If you spend the\nentire time on interstates, which would be a total waste of time, that's\nat least 8 hours on the road every day not including eating/peeing/\nsight-seeing etc.\n\nI was contemplating a similar trip, but from Ottawa to LA, or\nmaybe Ottawa to Austin Tx. \n\nI figured if I wanna do a trip of this magnitude and enjoy it, I'd\nhave to get my ass off the major Interstates and spend LOTS of\ntime enjoying the country around me; i.e. stopping with a camera,\nmeeting towns-people, going to a few bars. No sense spending 2 weeks\nlooking out a helmet with the closest human contact found at the gas\npump.\n\nI estimated I'd need at least 4-5 weeks to make the trip worthwhile.\n\n\nIn question 8:)\n\n\nTry and stay off the interstates!!!\n\n\nDepending on your route and my plans, I may be heading that way as far\nas at least Detroit.\n\n\n\nCall the Whithorse Pess. They're a book distributer catering to\nMotorcyclists. They have a large number of books highlighting\nthe best roads FOR MOTORCYCLISTS along the general route\nyou're looking at. They carry listings of bed and breakfasts\nall through the States which accept motorcyclists. Order their free\ncatalog and within you'll probably find books covering absolutely\nall you needs for this trip. Their #'s in the Motorcyclist and/or\nCycle World classifieds.\n\n\nO.K.", "\n\nOkay, here's what to do. Get a drill and a sanding disk. Use, say a \n100 disk and go at it at a very low rpm. If you don't have a drill, try\ncoarse steel wool and brake fluid. Dot 4 has an uncanny knack for removing\n_any_ paint imperfections.\n\nOh, I'm not responsible for misuse or miapplication of either of these\ntechniques.", ": But waiiiiiit, isn't Nissan officially registering the car as far as\n: government paperwork goes, Nissan Stanza Altima, to avoid costly and\n: lengthy paperwork? I read this on the net a while ago, and someone\n: actually may have said there's a little Stanza logo on the Altima\n: somewhere.\n\nI just bought an Altima (and like it very much) and yes there is a\nlittle Stanza logo ever so discretely placed on the trunk. The Altima is\nemblazoned in big silver letters, but the itsy-bitsy Stanza is shunted\nto the far left of the trunk lid. You can only see it if you get up\nclose to the car and know where to look. It is very inconspicuous.\n\nIn fact my first clue that this was a Stanza was that the owners manual\ncalled the car a Nissan Stanza Altima.\n\nAnybody know *why* Nissan did it this way?", "The Chevrolet brothers were respected racers & test drivers for the\nBuick Co. when Durant was there.\n\nWhen the directors kicked Durant out of GM in 1910 he took Chevrolet and\nothers with him. As mentioned before, they founded the successful\nChevrolet company.\n\nA little-known fact is that the Chevrolet Co. actually took over GM!\nThat was how Durant got back in charge of GM-- legally his new company\nChevrolet Co. did the buying, and GM was a division of Chevrolet!\n\nAfter 1920 and into the Sloan era, GM shuffled things so that the GM\nboard was superior, but there was always a degree of autonomy given\nthe Chevy division, presumably because of the initial structure.\n(If you look at the organization chart for GM in Sloan's book, Chevy\ndivision reports directly to 14th floor, not through the \"passenger\ncar division\" which covers Buick, Olds, Cadillac, and Oakland/Pontiac)", "Me> The understanding and ability to swerve was essentially absent among\nMe> the accident-involved riders in the Hurt study.\n\nMike> I would agree entirely with these three paragraphs. But did the Hurt\nMike> study make any distinction between an *ability* to swerve and a *failure*\nMike> to swerve?\n\nYes, it was specifically the *ability* or understanding of the\ntechnique which was absent. We have made a lot of progress between\nrider education and responsibility over the last ten-twenty years...\nbut I am still amazed anytime I teach an ERC how many people of many\nyear riding experience \"discover\" countersteering for cornering or\nswerving.\n\nMike> everything else. Hard braking and swerving tend to be mutually exclusive\nMike> manouvres - did Hurt draw any conclusions on which one is generally\nMike> preferable?\n\nThe specific recommandation cited in the Hurt study was that a formal\n\"street strategy\", like SIPDE for example, was the most important\ncomponent of any rider education curriculum. The specific skills of\nemergency braking, cornering and swerving must be taught and practiced\nas well, but more significant was that 35% of rider did NOTHING\nconfronted with a potential accident, and another third collided or\nfell over as a result of rider error. The choice of specific maneuver\nis much less significant to the outcome than early detection and\nthe proper execution of ANY effective countermeasure.", "\n\n[i agree wholeheartedly!!]\n\n\nnot sure about there in CA, but here in US, the manuals are quite often the\nstandard equipment. Of course, FINDING a car with one might be hard, but\nif you read the sticker on the window, there is usally an additional 2k or\nso tacked on for that lousy tranny. So you actually ARE paying more, just\nthat it's sometimes hard to find one that is equipped \"standard\". (this\napplies to MOST cars, but not to the luxoyachts..eg caddilac, licolns, etc..)\n", "\nEgo Trip...\n", "\nUSUALLY....go enough places and you'll see stuff happen you didn't think did.\n", "\nThe Yammie Deltabox and the Hawk frame are conceptually similar\nbut Yammie has a TM on the name. The Hawk is a purer 'twin spar' \nframe design: investment castings at steering head and swing arm\ntied together with aluminum extruded beams. The Yammie solution is\na bit more complex.", "\nThis sounds suspiciously like black magic to me. If by \"quick wiggle\nto the right\" you mean that the handlebars turn toward the right\nbefore turning to the left, what is the input to the steering\nmechanism that makes this happen in the absence of the old\n\"shove-shove\"?", "\n\nSomething that happened in South AFrica about a year ago: A dealer sold a \nMercedes with an odometer reading of 150K kilometers to a lady. Turned out \nthat the actual reading should have been 160K. Court case followed because\nlady said she wouldn't have bought a car with that much km's. Dealer found \nquilty, fined and had to take back the car.\n\nI think you have a case if you can get a sworn statement from the previous\nowner. Take the car back to the dealer and threaten him or something.", "& \n& And speaking of shims, why would the clearance of the valves get smaller,\n& i.e. \n& need the use of a thinner shim? \n\nBecause the valves recede into the cylinder head faster than the shims/cams\nwear down..\n", "For sale - Mazda 323\n\n\t1986 Mazda 323\n\tWhite exterior, Grey interior.\n\t75,000 miles\n\tInterior in very good condition.\n\tExterior in good condition\n\n\tPioneer DX 680 car stereo.\n\t\t- CD player\n\t\t- 18 FM presets, 6 AM\n\t\t- removable faceplate\n\t\t- seperate component speakers professionally mounted\n\t\t in the doors.\n\nThe car has been well maintained. I wax it often and keep the interior\nclean. Its a good running car with a solid body (no rust thru, tiny\nspots of surface rust. When I see a spot I touch it up.) The stereo\nmakes the car. I have had no mechanical problems with it.\n\nI'm looking for $900.00 firm. The car has an average wholesale value of \nabout $900.00 without the stereo. The stereo cost me $500.00 last July.\n\nIf you are interested, call or Email me at:", "\nYeah, it's impossible to be a tough biker when a 5 year old\nstarts waving at you.\n", "\nRon> Viper also sells some fancy field disturbance sensor that\nRon> supposedly detects people approcahing the car....\n\nRon\n\nIf your Viper system were tuned like a neighbor's is you wouldn't get\nany sleep because of the damn thing waking every one in the neighborhood\nup.\n\nWe all used to try to ignore the alarm, but have now made a pact to\nbombard the house with night-time visits and phone calls when ever we\nare awakened because some thunder storm passed over the next county\nor a stray dog looked at the car.\n\nCar alarms are a serious pain-in-the-ass!\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t-ks\n\np.s. Real men don't have car radios since the exhaust is too loud to\n hear it anyway !\n-- ", "\nGravity. It'll never let you down, er up, er...\n\nLesson: Put your helmet on the ground or your head. If you put it on the\nground, it isn't gonna fall down _to_ the ground. If you put it on your\nhead, well...\n\n tom coradeschi <+> tcora@pica.army.mil", "Chances are that this has been discussed to death already, and\nif so could someone who has kept the discussion mail me or direct me \nto an archive site. Basically,\nI am just wondering if Slick 50 really does all it says that it does.\nAnd also, is there any data to support the claim. Thanks for any info.", "This is probably a stupid question but as I am new to the motorcycle scene\nI don't really know anything about it. What is DoD? \n\n\t\t\t\t\tThanks,", "\n\nA friend of mine (who's probably reading this right now) just bought a new\nYamaha Virago 750. After spending 1-2 hours very late one chilly evening\nwatching him struggle with the bolts (had to remove the right peg, loosen\nthe brake pedal, &c. &c.) I've pretty much decided never to get this\nparticular model unless he or someone else wants to change the oil/filter\nfor me. Compared to the 5-minute change he was used to for his Honda, this\nis just a design flaw/oversight in my eyes.\n", "\nLabour prices for car service are very expensive in Toronto compared to other\nparts of Ontario. For example, there are places in Ottawa that still charge\n\"only\" $40/hour. I've seen a couple of places charging $60/hour. The cheapest\nI've heard in Toronto is $70/hour.\n\n", "Not exactly dumb, but who remebers the tachometer on the 69 or 70 Firebird \nbulging out of the _hood_ right in front of the driver. Neat place but I love \nto know what the elemnts did to its internals after a few years. Also, does \nthe speedomete pointer on many US cars have to be 3 feet long?. ", "\nI am not sure about this, but I believe that Analog Devices in Norwood,\nMA makes a relatively inexpensive acceleration sensor (primarily for\nuse in auto air-bag systems). I do not know specs or anything else, but\nyou might give them a call to find out more info.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tZ\n\n\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------", "\nWhile shopping for a passenger helmet, I noticed that in many cases the\nexternal dimensions of the helmets were the same from S through XL. The\ndifference was the amount of inside padding.\n\nMy solution was to buy a large helmet, and construct a removable liner \nfrom a sheet of .5\" closed-cell foam and some satin (glued to the inside\nsurface). The result is a reasonably snug fit on my smallest-headed pillion\nwith the liner in, and a comfortable fit on my largest-headed pillion with\nthe liner out. Everyone else gets linered or not by best fit.\n\n\n\n-- ", "\nWhile I agree with you on that formal training is essential for safe riding,\nI disagree strongly with your original point. The point of formal training \nmust be to prepare riders for the road. Preparedness is in my opinion\nto know as much as possible. So, to exclude some aspects of riding a bike \nin a course is wrong IMHO. Now to countersteering in particular.\nCountersteering is something that must be trained. A common reaction among \nnew bikers (or bicycle riders) in an emergency situation, is to steer the \nmotorcycle like a bicycle. As we know this makes the motorcycle go in the\ndirection opposite to what was intended. Needless to say, this is dangerous.\nI have a specific example: A rider in a left turn. The rider thinks he/she\nis to close to the right shoulder of the road, and tries to steer the \nmotorcycle to the left by pulling the left handle and pushing the right \nhandle. The motorcycle straightens up and goes off the road. \nA worse scenario: The same rider, same turn. In the middle of the turn\nthe rider sees a truck coming towards him/her. The panicking rider tries\nto steer the motorcycle away from the truck and crashes right into it.\n\nThe main function of a riding course is to teach how to avoid emergency \nsituations, AND what to do if in one. Thus, the knowledge (and training) of\ncountersteering is IMHO a must in any riding course.", ": I am in the market for a bike and have recently found a 1990\n: Honda VRF 750 at a dealership. The bike has about 47,000 miles\n: and is around $4500. It has had two previous owners, both employees\n: of the dealership who, I have been told, took very good care of the\n: bike.\n\n: I have two questions: 1) Is this too many miles for a bike? I know this\n: would not be many miles for a car but I am unfamiliar with the life\n: span of bikes. 2) Is this a decent price? I am also unfamilar with\n: prices for used bikes. Is there a blue book for bikes like there is\n: for cars?.\n\n: Thanks for any advice you can give.\n\n: --Mark\n\n", "Hello World,\n\t just bought a new Stealth two weeks ago. Got a grad student \n rebate. Someone told me that there's another $400 reabet for 1st time\n Chrysler buyer. True ? If yes can I still get it or am I too late ?\n", "}>On a\n}>waterski bike, you turn the handlebars left to lean right, just like on\n}>a motorcycle, so this supports the move-the-contact-patch-from-beneath-the\n}>centre-of-mass theory on how to *lean*. This contradicts the need for\n}>gyroscopic precession to have a countersteering induced *lean*.\n}\n}...FOR A WATERSKI BIKE. It contradicts nothing for a motorcycle.\n\nNot only that, but this morning I saw a TV ad for a waterski bike\n(a Sea Doo, for those who care). I watched the lengthy ad very\ncarefully, and in every case and at every speed the riders turned\nthe handlebars left to go left, and right to go right. In other\nwords, they were *NOT* countersteering.\n\nSo perhaps it is only *some* waterski bikes on which one countersteers...", "\n\n\nIt is heavy, the 91 is mid 600's dry, that is the one major drawback\nof the ST.\n\n\nCan you say \" tourque monster\" The test drive sold me on the bike, \nlot's of bite anywhere above 2500 in any gear.\n\n\nDid you trythe ABS/TCS version? \n\n\nAfter market fairing windshield for 100.00 raises the bubble 6 inches\nabove most heads, but hurts the looks of the bike.\n\n\nThis is the essence of the bike, move the throttle and itr accelerates \nany gear anywhere anytime, I frequently find myself at the DOD min \nduring a casual passing maneuver.\n\nThis is a function of the weight, you have to be aggresive with the brake\nsqueze, actually as tested by Cycle world and an expert rider the ST\nstopped faster then the comparable models from BMW, and YAMAHA even with \nthe extra weight and Gas .\n\nYou must countersteer the ST for every turn and movement short\nof the classic pothole wiggle. Just forget ever leaning into a \nturn again. It must be countersteered into every turn and then \nresponds nicely.\n\n\nFaster then I've ever gone, I 'd hate to buy this bike after your \nshort \"break in period\"\n\n\n\nNot true, the side stand is well designed for the weight and will hold \nthe bike nicely on dirt. I am able to easily get the bike up on\nthe center stand, just step down on the stand instead of pulling\nup on the bike.\n", "/ hpcc01:rec.motorcycles / Stafford@Vax2.Winona.MSUS.Edu (John Stafford) / 11:06 am Apr 1, 1993 /\n \n\n It depreciates much faster, too.\n \n====================================================\nJohn Stafford Minnesota State University @ Winona\n All standard disclaimers apply.\n----------\nThe '84 GL1200A hit the traps at 13.34 according to Cycle magazine. Yeah,\nthey depreciate faster than Harleys for the first couple of years then\nthey bottom out. Got my '86 GL1200I w/ 2275 miles on the odometer for\njust under $5K in May of 1990 and would ask for $4500 now with almost\n16K miles onnit....that's about 50% of what a new GL1500I would cost.\n\nThink the '86 GL1200I originally sold for $6500 brand new, not sure. \nIf that's the case then it depreciated 30.77% over 7 years or a mere\n$2000. Big Fat Hairy Deal! Based on what I know, Harleys tend to\ndepreciate your monies far more than the initial depreciation of\nthe bike itself when it comes to parts and service. All this about\nHarleys holding their value better doesn't always wash away the\nknocks on them...such as being much slower. ;-) \n\nAccording to Peter Egan in the just released Cycle World his FLHS is a\nreal dog when he pillions his 120lb wife. All that money for a dog that\ndoesn't defecate much. =:-] \n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGraeme Harrison, Hewlett-Packard Co., Communications Components Division,\n350 W Trimble Rd, San Jose, CA 95131 (gharriso@hpcc01.corp.hp.com) DoD#649 ", "\n\n_Cycle World_ puts one out, but I'm sure it's not very objective. Try talking\nwith dealers and the people that hang out there, as well as us. We love to\ngive advice.\n\n\nMost of the bigger banks have a blue book which includes motos -- ask for the\none with RVs in it.\n\n\nCouldn't help you here.\n\n\nYou're reading it.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------", "Left hand steering wheel placement was not standard until the 20's in the\nUS. Driving on the right has been standard since standards came into being.\nInterestingly, Chrysler has just begun building right hand drive cars again\nfor export to Japan.\n", ": \n: I am considering buying a 1993 Chevy or GMC 4x4 full-size pickup with\n: the extended cab. Any opinions about these vehicles? Have there been\n: any significant problems?\n: \n: -- \n: Dick Grady Salem, NH, USA grady@world.std.com\n: So many newsgroups, so little time!\n\n\nI bought a brand new 1992 Chevrolet K2500 HD 4x4 extended cab last\nMay. It has had many, many problems. See my earler post that describes\nthe situation. I went to BBB arbitration, and they ruled that Chevrolet\nmust buy it back from me. If you do get one, stay away from the 5 speed\nmanual with the deep low first gear. They have put three of them in my\ntruck so far. After about 1,500 miles, overdrive either starts\nrattling or hissing loudly. There is no way to fix them. Chevrolet \nsays that the noise is \"a characteristic of the transmission.\"\n\nAlso, if you are planning to use your truck to tow, the\ngear ratios in that tranny suck. On a steep hill, you get up to about\n55 MPH in second gear at 4,000 RPM (yellow line). If you shift to third,\nthe RPM drop to only 2,500, and you begin to loose speed. I should\npoint out that the 350 V8 they put in the HD (8600 GVW) trucks is a\ndetuned motor compared to the one they put in the light duty ones. They\ndropped the compression ratio, supposedly for \"engine longevity\"\nreasons. So the light duty 350 may pull better than my truck does.\nOther things that have gone wrong include the ventilation fan (3 times \nso far), paint (had specs of rust embedded in the paint from being\nshipped by rail with no covering), and suspension parts (link between\nstabilizer and control arm fell off).\n\nAny company can make a bad individual car, Chevrolet included. What\nreally bothered me was the way they reacted. They made no attempt\nto deal with me except to tell me to take it back to the dealer for \nthem to attempt to fix it one more time. So I bought a brand new\nFord F250 HD Super Cab with a 460 and an automatic. I will never\nbuy another Chevrolet.", "\nWell here's how I prepared. I got one of those big beach\numbrellas, some of those gel-pack ice things, a big Coleman cooler\nwhich I've loaded up with Miller Draft (so I like Miller Draft,\nso sue me), a new pair of New Balance sneakers, a Sony\nWatchman, and a couple of cartons of BonTon Cheddar Cheese\nPopcorn.\n\nI haven't decided what to wear yet. What does one wear to an\neternal damnation?", "\n\nPerhaps a nice used '88 Pontiac Fiero GT? 2.8 liters.\n\nDoes anyone know if the motor mounts for the 2.8 and the twin-dual-cam 3.4\nliter match? The 3.4 is supposedly derived from the pushrod 3.1, which was\na punched out 2.8 liter. Should be a drop-in replacement, eh? 205 horses in\na mid-engine the size of a Fiero?\n\nLarry Smith (smith@ctron.com) No, I don't speak for Cabletron. Need you ask?", "If you had free reign to design your own instrument cluster, which\ngauges would you choose to have beyond the basic set?\n\nI consider the basic set to be:\n\n\t- tach\n\n\t- coolant temp (or cylinder head temp for air-cooled engines)\n\t- oil pressure\n\t- amps\n\n\t- speedo\n\t- fuel\n\nothers that are nice to have:\n\n\t- volts (maybe this should be in the basic set)\n\t- vacuum/boost\n\nI can think of a few others, but what are your ideas and why?", "Sorry for the mis-spelling, but I forgot how to spell it after \nmy series of exams and NO-on hand reference here.\n\n\tIs it still possible to get those cute WWII VW Jeep-wanna-be's?\nA replica would be great I think. \n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t-TKH '93\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\nIf I can convert a C=128 to a C128T, I can do anything... NOT!!", "\nYou don't say what kind of \"electronic equipment\" you mean. It's hard\nto give a generic answer. There is essentially no solvent that won't\ndo things like washing lubricant out of switches.\n\nWhen we've needed to do an emergency cleaning job on things, we've just\nused distilled water. The key thing to remember is to make sure the gear\nis *completely* dry before powering it up again. We let it dry for\nseveral days to be damn sure.\n\nI doubt that methanol has significant advantages over water. I would\nbe very wary of CCl4, not least because it is dangerous to *you* even\nif it's not going to harm the equipment -- not only is it poisonous,\nbut I believe it's now known to be carcinogenic.", "I want to thank all the people that responded to my post\na few weeks ago about buying an '86 Chev Nova with over\n100,000 mi.\n\nI decided to buy the car and have had it for about a month.\nI replaced the front brake pads and changed the oil. So far\nno problems have surfaced.\n\nI received many suggestions and encouragement on this\npurchase and figured a late \"thank you\" was better than none.\n\nThanks to all!", "\nThis really bugs me. The emissions of diesels are the cleanest of any vechicle,\nbut they are considered so polluting that they are banned in passenger cars\nin California. What a bunch of crap. Diesel is the fuel of choice for \nenviromental benefit in Europe while here it's illegal for the same reason.\n\nThe particulates are nothing but carbon. They are just an annoyance at worst.\nNothing beats the diesel cycle for efficiency and emissions, torque or engine\ndurability. It's also cheaper.", " I was recently thumbing through the 1993 Lemon-Aid New\nCar Guide. What I found was a car would be given a 'Recommended'\nunder the picture while a few sentences later noting how a\ndriver and passenger were virtually guaranteed to be killed\nin a front end collision. The most highly recommended small\ncar (The Civic) has the worst crash rating of all of the small\ncars listed. There were many such cases of 'great' vehicles\nwhere you wouldn't survive an accident. Is it only me, or is\nsafety not one of the most important factors when buying a car?\n\n\n", "\n Sure you can do wheelies with a shaft drive bike. I had a BMW R100RS\nthat was a wheelie monster! Of course it didn't have the initial power\nburst to just twist it into the air - I had to pop the clutch. I also\nhad to replace front fork seals a few times as well. The fairing is a \nbit heavy to be slamming down onto those little stantion tubes all the\ntime. But let me give you fair warning: I trashed the ring/pinion gear\nin the final drive of my K75 (I assume) doing wheelies. And this was \nNO cheap fix either!! There is some kind of \"slip\" device in the shaft\nto prevent IT from breaking. Unfortunately, it didn't save the gears!\n\n On the topic of wheelies, the other day I saw a kid on a big Hurricane\ndo a \"stoppy\"(?), or rear wheelie. Man, he had the rear end on this bike \nup about 2 feet off the ground at a traffic light. I don't recommend these\nactivities anymore (now that I'm an \"old guy\" with kids of my own) but\nit looked damn impressive!!\n\n If you can't keep both tires on the ground, at least have 'em pointed\nin that direction! :-)", "Is anyone reading this message involved with the new BMW plant?\n(does BMW corporate even have a net-connection?)", "\n\n\nbut what is Saturn's motivation here? they're already selling every\ncar they make, with multiple shifts in the plant. given this, what\npossible motivation could they have to lower prices?\n\ncheers,\n richard", "Graham E. Thomas, grahamt@phantom.gatech.edu\nsighting.\n\nI can top that one. Friday afternoon 4-16-93 I\nlook out my window in Long Beach CA. What do I\nsee but the new Ferrari. I looks like a mix\nbetween the ragtop testarossa (sp?) and the batman\ncar. It seems Ferrari had their Annual dinner\nat the place downstairs. Sweet car.\n", "being a mere female, I have often found I can't really take the big offensive line with asshole car drivers, so I found a more subtle and nastly\nooops I mean nasty way to get back at them. If somebody cuts you up, just wait till they have pulled out past you, and then gently lean over and\nbend their aerial, every time I have done that it has eventually snapped\noff near the base - which tends to go undetected for a while and is a bummer to replace.\n", "As an additional data point, I have run Castrol 20W50 exclusively\nin the following cars: 75 Rabbit, 78 Scirocco, 76 Rabbit, 78 Bus,\n70 Beetle, 76 Bus, 86 Jetta GLI. I've never had an oil-related\nproblem.\n\nDisclaimer: It gets mighty hot down here.", "-> The current 4.9l V-8 will soldier on for about two years. A version\n-> of the 32 valve modular V-8 in the Mark VIII could be offered then.\n\nHow unfortunate for anyone who loves the simplicity with which 302 and\n351 Fords and 305 and 350 Chevys can be built up. Still, it will provide\na needed punch for the Ford to stay up with the new Firebird/Camaros. It\nwouldn't surprise me if Ford called the engine a 5.0 litre in the\nMustang. (We all know that the current 5.0 is really 4.9 litres anyway)\n\n-> Undisguised, the car looks OK, but not nearly as exciting as the new\n-> Camaro/Firebird, IMO.\n\nI must agree. I don't think I've seen anything as impressive looking as\nthe new Firebird since my friend back home sold his 1970 Formula 400\nFirebird (for a paltry $2000, without even telling me. The bastard.)", "\n\nsorta.\n\n\n'88 Honda Hawk\n\nYMMV.", "Does anyone have a listing of Pontiac's three-letter option codes and\nwhat they mean?\n\nThanks.\n\n-Oliver\n---\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nOliver Scholz DG4NEM\nGraduate Student of Computer Sciences at the University of Erlangen, Germany\n\"You're killing me, Peg!\" \"Oh, shut up, Al, like I care...\" ", "\n\t\t\t ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nBecause of this I cannot in good faith recommend a Seca Turbo. Power\ndelivery is too uneven for a novice. The Official (tm) Dod newbie\nbike of choice would be more appropriate because the powerband is so wide\nand delivery is very smooth. Perfect for the beginner.\n\n", "\nNow you know why I am just a DOD member. I like bikes and clubs but\nthe politics and other b*llsh*t is a real turn-off.\n-- \n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\"Tuba\" (Irwin) \"I honk therefore I am\" CompuTrac-Richardson,Tx\nirwin@cmptrc.lonestar.org DoD #0826 (R75/6)", "I have manual transmission 5 speed. It difficult to engage gear. Does xmission oil change improve this situation?\nWhat do you think about the most favorable xmission oil change period?", "am amazed at the number of Harley riders who ARE waving even to a lowly\nbaby ninja. Let's keep up the good attitudes. Brock Yates said in this\nmonths Car and Driver he is ready for a war (against those who would rather\nwe all rode busses). We bikers should be too.\n\nIt's a freedom that we all wanna know\nand it's an obsession to some\nto keep the world in your rearview mirror\nwhile you try to run down the sun", "\n\n\n\nYou raise a valid point, but again it's a tradeoff -- how much money\ndo you want to spend for that kind of protection? You could buy a\nVolvo, Saab, or 'Benz and get really good crash protection (and other\nluxuries) but you'll pay significantly more for it. In my case it's\nout of the question because *all* of those cars are beyond my budget.\n\nEven in high-speed head-on collisions the most beneficial item you can\nhave is a good old 3-point seatbelt. Nowadays, at least in the US,\nyou get an airbag if you get a 3-point belt so (presumably) you get an\nadded safety benefit there as well. That's something I certainly look\nfor and which can be had in inexpensive cars.\n\nMy $.02, of course.", " I used to drive a truck a few years back. I once rode with an old codger\nthat had been driving for about 30 yrs. The only time he would use the clutch\nwas to get the truck moving. He could shift that 13 speed lightning quick, up\nor down, without the slightest rake of a gear. He was as smooth as silk. It was\nthe most amazing shifting demonstration I've ever seen! Having said all that I \nstill don't know why anyone would want to shift a synchronized tranny without a\nclutch? Why do it?\n", "mjs>Secondly, it is the adhesion of the\nmjs>tyre on the road, the suspension geometry and the ground clearance of the\nmjs> motorcycle which dictate how quickly you can swerve to avoid obstacles, and\nmjs>not the knowledge of physics between the rider's ears. Are you seriously\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nmjs>suggesting that countersteering knowledge enables you to corner faster\nmjs>or more competentlY than you could manage otherwise??\n\ned>If he's not, I will. \n\nHey Ed, you didn't give me the chance! Sheesh!\n\nThe answer is, absolutely!, as Ed so eloquently describes:\n\ned>Put two riders on identical machines. It's the\ned>one who knows what he's doing, and why, that will be faster. It *may*\ned>be possible to improve your technique if you have no idea what it is,\ned>through trial and error, but it is not very effective methodology.\ned>Only by understanding the technique of steering a motorcycle can one\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\ned>improve on that technique (I hold that this applies to any human\ned>endeavor).\n\nHerein lies the key to this thread:\n\nKindly note the difference in the responses. Ed (and I) are talking\nabout knowing riding technique, while Mike is arguing knowing the physics\nbehind it. It *is* possible to be taught the technique of countersteering\n(ie: push the bar on the inside of the turn to go that way) *without*\nhaving to learn all the fizziks about gyroscopes and ice cream cones\nand such as seen in the parallel thread. That stuff is mainly of interest\nto techno-motorcycle geeks like the readers of rec.motorcycles ;^),\nbut doesn't need to be taught to the average student learning c-steering.\nMike doesn't seem to be able to make the distinction. I know people\nwho can carve circles around me who couldn't tell you who Newton was.\nOn the other hand, I know very intelligent, well-educated people who\nthink that you steer a motorcycle by either: 1) leaning, 2) steering\na la bicycles, or 3) a combination of 1 and 2. Knowledge of physics\ndoesn't get you squat - knowledge of technique does!", "\n\nYa, he cut me off on 128 the other day, he drives like a crazy person.\nI'd have to say he's responsible for most accidents, they really should\npull his licence.\n\n-Steve\n", "I dont know about Saabs but whenever there is a 'long temr tset' in a magazine\nthey always say that tehy're are little annoying niggles which keep on occuring\nevery so often... I wouldn't expect that from such a 'quality' car.... why \ndoesn't anything like this ever happen on BMWs? Maybe coz they're 'quality'\ncars ;-) ", "Apparently that last post was a little hasy, since I\ncalled around to more places and got quotes for less\nthan 600 and 425. Liability only, of course.\n\nPlus, one palced will give me C7C for my car + liab on the bike for\nonly 1350 total, which ain't bad at all.\n\nSo I won't go with the first place I called, that's\nfer sure.\n\n", "\nDidn't you read the instructions first??\nYou're supposed to spray it in your ears so you won't be\ndistracted by the chain-noise of the *other* bikes around you.\nThat's why it's called \"Chain *Wax*\".", "I was just wondering if exercises specific to particular regions of the\nbody (such as thighs) will basically only tone the thighs, or if fat\nfrom other parts of the body (such as breasts) would be affected just as\nmuch.", "\n\nYup. Do it whenever I am in the cage (which is not often if its riding weather\n... ie no snow). I find arm out and down and kinda finger wave works best for\nsport bikes and arm out/up works best for Harleys. Similar to how I wave when\nI am on the bike.\n\n\nYah mean like..\n\n\nDone what? Why Jody we would never, ever even dream of assuming that a young\nlady of such refined breeding and taste would even consider such things. I mean\nsome matters do not even have to be discussed, by civilized beings...\n\nBut, in confidence, just between the \"two of us\", not even once. Or perhaps\ngot excited thinking about it. I know that I do... ;->", "\nIs there such a thing as the new '94 Eagle Talon? I heard from a freind that\nthe new '94 Talons have been released? Is this true and if so what are the\ndifferences between the '93 and '94? Any opinions? I would appreciate any\nreplies and I would also prefer E-mail, thanks!\n", "\n\n\nJust to clear things up (as to why I posted the question that way)...\nI was debating with a co-worker about diesels. I claimed they were\ncleaner-burning than gas engines. He said the extra \"junk\" put out by them\nwas offset by the savings in greenhouse gasses. I made all the SAME claims\nyou did. But, one question of his was what about the carbon? I said it\nwas harmless, but he wanted to know how to get rid of it. I suggested\nscrubbers. (I figured it would be no harder or more expensive to install\nthan \"cats\".) Does there exist any designs for a scrubber? (I'd like\nto know just to answer his final question.) I convinced him that diesels\nare cleaner otherwise.\n\nBTW, (I named my subject \"Dirty Diesels\" because I knew it would get a reaction\nout of people who knew they were cleaner than gas engines and that they'd\nread it...)\n-- \n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n-- Vel Natarajan nataraja@rtsg.mot.com Motorola Cellular, Arlington Hts IL --", "\n\n\nI did the same thing to my drain plug for the same reasons. I was wondering\nhow you filled your crankcase though as I welded my hood shut also out of fear\nthat somebody might steal my air-filter.", "I am interested in finding out how the 4Runner and Pathfinder have\nbeen updated in the past few years. Like new engine, suspension and\nthe like. I noticed that the 1993 and 1992 4Runners are identical,\nfor example, and was looking into buying a used one.\n\nAny info would be appreciated, esp. models/years to check out or\navoid.", "1990 Mazda 626 DX $6000 or best offer\nNADA blue book: $9075 - $2175 for mileage = $6900\ne-mail or call Ron at (908)805-2248 (work) or (908)454-9337 (home)\n\n* 92,000 miles, all highway (I used to commute 160 miles/day)\n* 5 speed\n* Air Conditioning\n* AM/FM/Cassette stereo\n* split fold-down rear seat\n* 2.2 liter, 12 valve, fuel injected engine \n* roomy interior, comfy back seats, big trunk\n* well maintained - oil and filter every 3,000 - 4,000, other maintanence\n\tas scheduled. Except for the timing belt which still looks new.\n\tI did slip and went 5,000 miles without changing the oil once.\n* tires have 20,000 miles, lots of life left (probably 30,000 to 40,000)\n* front brake job at 84,000, back brakes are still good\n* engine/trans/drive train in perfect condition - everything works,\n\tnothing needs replacing, next tune up scheduled at 120,000\n* body is good - left tail light is cracked (I'm trying to find a used\n\tone - dealer wants $172!), two long scratches and a ding on the\n\thood (vandalism?), a bunch of stone chips on the front of the\n\thood. Official Mazda touch up paint included in the deal.\n\nThis car is extremely reliable, even better than the Toyota Corolla it\nreplaced. Besides the tires, brakes and maintanence items, the only other\nparts that have been replaced are the headlight bulbs.\n\nSelling because my wife refuses to drive a car without an automatic trans.\nAnd she wants a station wagon with a sun roof, etc, etc.", "\n\tThis is true as evinced by the popularity of shaft-drive drag bikes.", "WHAT IS THE FLANK DRIVE EVERYONES TALKING ABOUT?\n", "& >I'm not familiar with the trannies used in Winston Cup, but in the trans-am\n& >cars I've played with the transmissions were the racing variety, with\n& >dog clutches instead of sychros. In a transmission with dog clutches, the\n& >gears are always engaged with each other and moving the dog clutches\n& >engages the gears to the shafts. Motorcycle transmissions are the same way.\n& >Shifting without the clutch on a transmission with syncros can and will cause\n& >transmission damage, the only question being how long it takesto grenade\n& >something (for the trans in my 87 Pulsar SE, it was about 3-5k miles, but\n& >it had a weak tranny in the first place).\n& \n& just out of curiosity, how is this \"dog clutch\" any different from a synchro\n& transmission. What you described SOUNDS the same to me. In fact, what little\n& i've studied on trannies, the instructor referred to the synchros as \"dogs\"\n& and said they were synonymous. The gears are always meshed in a synchronized\n& gearbox, and you slip the synchro gears back and forth by shifting. Or at least,\n& that is what i was taught. Explain, por favour?\n\nMotorcycle transmissions don't have synchros. The engagment dogs are very\ncorse and sloppy. There are maybe 6-10 teeth (dogs) on the side of the\ngears that engage the next gear over as the forks slide the gears back\nand forth. To shift: start to apply pressure at the same time the\nclutch is pulled (the clutch is a hand lever) and shift quickly. If \nyou try a slow lazy shift it will grind, you just have to pop it into\nthe next gear before it has a chance to grind. There isn't a neutral\nbetween gears (obviously there is, but you can't select it with the\nshifter) so double clutching is not a possibility. \"speed shifting\"\n(which is what I have always heard \"clutchless shifting\" called) works\npretty well for upshifts with some practice, but I usually use the\nclutch-especially for the lower gears.\n\nI think auto (as in automobile) trannys are similar, except that the\nengagment dogs are very fine, with no slop. And the addition of\nsyncho rings. The gear teeth are always engaged in auto transmissions\nthat are synchronized, but may not be in non-synchro gears (reverse\nand sometimes first). \n", "I feel childish.\n\n\nWho mentioned dirtbikes? We're talking highway speeds here. If you go 70mph\non your dirtbike then feel free to contribute.\n\n\nBecause it wouldn't be a Jeep if it didn't. A friend of mine just bought one\nand it has more warning stickers than those little 4-wheelers (I guess that's\nbecuase it's a big 4 wheeler). Anyway, it's written in about ten places that\nthe windshield should remain up at all times, and it looks like they've made\nit a pain to put it down anyway, from what he says. To be fair, I do admit\nthat it would be a similar matter to drive a windscreenless Jeep on the \nhighway as for bikers. They may participate in this discussion, but they're\nprobably few and far between, so I maintain that this topic is of interest\nprimarily to bikers.\n\n\nNotice how Ed picked on the more insignificant (the lower case part) of the \ntwo parts of the statement. Besides, around here it is quite rare to see \nbikers wear goggles on the street. It's either full face with shield, or \nopen face with either nothing or aviator sunglasses. My experience of \nbicycling with contact lenses and sunglasses says that non-wraparound \nsunglasses do almost nothing to keep the crap out of ones eyes.\n\n\nOk, ok, fine, whatever you say, but lets make some attmept to stick to the\npoint. I've been out on the road where I had to stop every half hour to clean\nmy shield there were so many bugs (and my jacket would be a blood-splattered\nmess) and I'd see guys with shorty helmets, NO GOGGLES, long beards and tight\nt-shirts merrily cruising along on bikes with no windscreens. Lets be really\nspecific this time, so that even Ed understands. Does anbody think that \nsplattering bugs with one's face is fun, or are there other reasons to do it?\nImage? Laziness? To make a point about freedom of bug splattering?", "\n\n\n\nOf course it releases radiation! Thats why your car goes faster when\nyou punch the holes in it. All that radiation gets on your engine\nand gives it \"pep\" (scientific term). You get more horsepower &\ntorque too! If you don't know what HP & torque are, you can read\nmile long threads on the subject, but they are all wrong. Horsepower\nis how much power a horse can make pulling a Subaru, and torque is\na name invented by Craftsman for a wrench.", "\nApparently the instinct to brake in the face of danger isn't as strong \nas the instinct to freeze up and do nothing in the face of danger. Hurt\nfound that a surprising number of accident-involved motorcyclists hadn't\nused their brakes at all prior to impact. \n\nI think the only way you'll ever use countersteering reliably and correctly in \na crisis is to make it the only conscious method of directional control you\never use, and to practice it constantly, even when you have no need to do\nany turning. If you follow me down a long straight, and I seem to be \nwiggling back and forth randomly or suddenly without obvious need, it's because\nI'm practicing countersteering and avoiding imaginary obstacles directly in\nmy path. All of this practice may indeed be futile, but if I have even\nmilliseconds to react, the most *familiar* tactic available (and hopefully \nthe most automatic) will be countersteering. The same logic applies to braking\nwith the front brake, of course.", "\nA note to users of Plexi-Fairings:\n\nIf the light hits some of these just right, they become a giant magnifing \nglass and will melt a hole in your guage pod! \n\n ----===== DoD #8177 = Technician(Dr. Speed) .NOT. Student =====----", "\nI'll throw in a vote for a Metzler \"economy\" tire, the ME77. Good\nfor mid-size older bikes. Rated to 130mph. Wearing well and handles\nmy 12 mile ride(twisties) to work well on the SR500. Costs a bit \nmore than the Chengs/IRC's etc, but still less than the Sport\nMetzlers for the newer bikes. Cost from Chaparral is about $60 for the\nfront, and $70 for the rear.", "o Subaru Service Manuals ................................... $10.00\n This is not a complete set, but includes sections 4, 5 \n & 6 which cover MECHANICAL COMPONENTS (suspension, wheels \n & axles, steering, brakes, pedals & control cables, heater \n & ventilator, air conditioning), BODY (body & exterior, \n doors & windows, seats, seat belts, interior, instrument \n panel), and ELECTRICAL (engine electrical system, body \n electrical system, wiring diagram, and trouble-shooting). \n These are the genuine Subaru issue manuals. They are for \n model year 1986, but have plenty of good information that \n applies to other years as well.\n\n\nAnd, as long as I'm posting (end of car stuff),\n\no Miscellaneous Darkroom Equipment ........................ $75.00\n Solar enlarger (several objective lenses) with easel and \n timer, negative carriers for 35mm and 2 1/4 x 3 1/4, misc.\n printing masks. Developing tanks, thermometer, trays, \n constant-temperature bath, ground glass, mirrors, darkroom\n lamps, glassware, el-cheap-o tripods..... and (as they say)\n MUCH MORE!\n\n\no Beautiful Antique Buffet ............................... $1500.00\n Solid cherry (no veneer). Handmade, with very interesting\n dovetail corners in the drawers. Built (we think) around \n 1880. Not gaudy or covered with gew-gaws; a simple, elegant \n piece of furniture, but too big (60\" long, 37\" tall, 24\" \n deep) for our little Cape Cod house.\n\n\nWill deliver pricier items (ie, over $10) anywhere in the Rochester \narea. (And will consider delivering the others.) Will deliver any \nof it on UofR Campus between now and graduation.", "Just a quick, simple question really...\n\n\tHow many wheels are affected by the emergency brake on an '86 Nissan\nMaxima. I've heard that all four are affected, but this would seem unusual\nto me. I thought the emergency brake on most cars only affected the rear\nwheels. Also, how powerful is the emergency brake usually? Enough to lock\nwheels at 30mph? Hmmmm... I just have to wonder about some of the things I\nhear...", "\nBe careful that you do not have any weight of the helmet resting on the\nmirror. It will depress the foam liner in the helmet. That is not the\nkind of foam that bounces back, like foam rubber. Its purpose in life\nis to absorb energy in an impact as it is compressed by your noggin.\nIf your mirror compresses it, there is that much less energy absorbing\ncapacity left to cushon your noggin in a crash.\n\nI found the right handlebar to be a good spot, if on the sidestand.\nHang with the chinbar facing up, balanced across the grip and brake\nlever such that the weight of the helmet doesn't compress any of the\nchinbar foam. This is more challanging with an open face helmet.\n", ": Well, here goes. After lurking for a LONG time, I'll announce myself. Yes, I'm\n: the enemy. The enemy that also happens to ride an \"arrest me red\" 90 VFR. \n\nI don't generally consider police officers \"the enemy\". I hope you don't\nthink bikers in general have that attitude. Stereotypes suck either way.\n\n: I'll entertain questions but my answers will reflect Georgia law and may not \n: apply in your state. \n: \n: P.S. Anyone got a Nomex suit for sale?\n\nYou shouldn't get flamed for being a cop. I can't promise you won't because\nthere are jerks on this newsgroup same as any other, but if you've been \nlurking for a while you already know that. You might get lots of flames\nif you try to convince people that you know more than them just because you\nhave a badge. And of course, you will get a moderate amount of flamage\njust for expressing an opinion, no matter what the opinion is *somebody*\nwill flame you for it.\n So, have you ordered any official DoD paraphenalia yet? Wristwatch,\nbandana, patches? Tell your boss your going undercover with a real\nbadass biker gang. :-)", "I was just wondering what kind (brand, name, etc...) would be best on this \nbike.... thanks for your advice.... \n", "\n[Long silly discussion deleted...]\n\n\nThis suggestion isn't as far-fetched as it sounds. Years ago in another\ntime and place, I used to do oil changes in boats powered by automotive\nengines. In many cases, there was no way to get any sort of a tray under\nthe oil pan because it was boxed in by the bottom of the hull and various\nfloation chambers on each side. And if you *did* get something there, you'd\nspill all the oil out of it for sure trying to get it back out again.\n\nSo we used a small pump powered by an electric drill to suck the oil out\nthe dipstick hole. There was a long/thin hose on the inlet side designed\nto fit down the dipstick tube, and another, thicker/shorter hose on the\noutlet side that you put into any convenient container. I'm sure these\ngadgets are still available from marine hardware suppliers if you want one.", "\nThe Continental may have been the first \"modern era\" auto to mount the\nspare on the rear of the car but it was hardly the first car to sport one.\nVarious mounting techniques for rear mounting the spare were quite common\nin early automobiles, both US and Foreign.", "\nSounds a lot more like an Opel GT to me. I'd guess that this is on the same\nchassis as the Kadett, rather than the bigger Manta - but I could easily\nbe wrong. I think the later Kadett's were sold here as Buick Opels.", "\n\n\n I beleive it's called the \"Dentabox\" frame. \n\nNothing some putty and paint won't fix.\n\n__\n Jorg Klinger | GSXR1100 | If you only new who\n Arch. & Eng. Services |\"Lost Horizons\" CR500 | I think I am. \n UManitoba, Man. Ca. |\"The Embalmer\" IT175 | - anonymous", ": \n: > \n: > HELP!!!\n: > my wife has informed me that she wants a convertible for her next car.\n: \n:\n: FYI, just last week the PBS show Motor Week gave the results of what they \n: thought were the best cars for '93. In the convertible category, the \n: Honda Civic del Sol achieved this honor. \n: \n: The one down-side I see with the car is its interior, it looks \n: inexpensive and dull.\n: \nI own a del Sol and I must vouch for the interior. I really looks snazzy when\nthe top is off. I looks a lot better in person than on the television. (I saw\nthat Motorweek as well. Needless to say I was smiling a bit by the time it\nwas over ...) :*)\n\nWatch out for that darned \"convertible tan\" tho...", "\n\nI think there is a legal clause in the RR name, regardless of who owns it\nit must be a British company/owner - i.e. BA can sell the company but not\nthe name.", "Hi, maybe someone can help me here...\nI am looking to buy this 1990 Nissan Maxima GXE for CDN$14000 right now.\nThe car has 96000 km (or about 60000 miles) on it.\nA typical mileage for 1990 cars seem to be about 70000 km (or about 43K mi).\nThe seller just informed me that when he brought the car in for certification\nhe was told that the front break pads and the exhausts had to be replaced\nto meet the legal standards. (He said he will replace the components before\nselling the car to me.)\n\nBeing copmletely ignorant to the technical stuff on cars, I don't know\nwhat this could mean...\nIs 96K km about the time typical for replacing the above mentioned items?\nOr is this an indication that the car was abused?\nWould other things break down or have to be replaced soon?\nThe seller told me that he used the car on the highway a lot, but,\nI don't know how to verify this... I've seen the paint chipped away\nin tiny dots in the front edge of the hood, though.\n\nAlthough the Maxima is an excellent car and the car is very clean and\nwell kept, it's currently out of warranty\n(a similarly priced '90 Accord with 70K km will have 2 years or 30K km\nworth of warranty left) and I don't want to worry about paying for\nany repair bills...\nBut, I also need a car for 5 people... \n\nWhen will the new Maxima come out, by the way?\n\nI would very much appreciate your input in this.\nPlease reply by e-mail (preferred) or post in this newsgroup.\nThanks!\n\nRyan\n\n", "\nHere it's driving while impaired. That about covers everything.", "\nJust an comment: I don't like it when people decide what's good for me...\nIf you think you're going to decide anything for me, you'd better be \ncarrying a badge and a gun. Who made you capable of determining if there\nis \"no way in hell that anybody is going anywhere\"? Why do you find \nit necessary to add to the problem instead of just minding your own \nbusiness? If someone is minding their own business, I will give them\nall the room they want, and I'll try to make things easy for them, even\nletting them in in front of me if they ask politely (with a directional).\nOn the other hand, if someone like you decides they want to block me and\nbe a general asshole, you can bet your ass that I'll make life as \nmiserable as possible for you, as long as it doesn't affect anyone else\nwho's minding their own business. \nThey have a phrase to describe someone like you:\nSelf Appointed Traffic Police.\nJust mind your own business and stay in the right lane where you belong.\n\n\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n ___ \n / _ \\ '85 Mustang GT Bob Pitas\n / /USH 14.13 @ 99.8 bpita@ctp.com\n / /| \\ Up at NED, Epping, NH (Cambridge, MA)\n\n \"\" - Geddy Lee (in YYZ)\nDisclaimer: These opinions are mine, obviously, since they end with my .sig!", "\n\n\nSure, I can. The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Motorcycles, edited by Erwin \nTragatsch, was published by The Hamlyn Publishing Group Limited, \nAstronaut House, Hounslow Road, Feltham, Middlesex, England.\n\nIt was first published in 1977, and mine was reprinted in 1978. Cost then \nwas Pounds 5.95 in the UK, though I paid 18.50 for it in Canadian \ndollars. I have no idea whether it's still in print. Perhaps you could \nlet the net know.\n\nBob.", "FOR SALE (RELUCTANTLY)\n ---- Classic Bike -----\n 1972 YAMAHA XS-2 650 TWIN\n \n<6000 Original miles. Always stored inside. 1979 front end with\naftermarket tapered steering head bearings. Racer's supply rear\nbronze swingarm bushings, Tsubaki chain, Pirrhana 1/4 fairing\nwith headlight cutout, one-up Carrera racing seat, superbike bars,\nvelo stacks on twin carbs. Also have original seat. Tank is original\ncherry/white paint with no scratches, dents or dings. Needs a\nnew exhaust as original finally rusted through and was discarded.\nI was in process of making Kenney Roberts TT replica/ cafe racer\nwhen graduate school, marriage, child precluded further effort.\nWife would love me to unload it. It does need re-assembly, but\nI think everything is there. I'll also throw in manuals, receipts,\nand a collection of XS650 Society newsletters and relevant mag\narticles. Great fun, CLASSIC bike with over 2K invested. Will\nconsider reasonable offers.\n___________________________________________________________________________\n \nTimothy J. Shickley, Ph.D. Director, Neurourology\nDepartments of Urology and Anatomy/Cell Biology\nTemple University School of Medicine\n3400 North Broad St.\nPhiladelphia, PA 19140\n(voice/data) 215-221-8966; (voice) 21-221-4567; (fax) 21-221-4565\nINTERNET: shickley@vm.temple.edu BITNET: shickley@templevm.bitnet\nICBM: 39 57 08N\n 75 09 51W\n_________________________________________________________________________\n ", "Well, I have it forsale again (the last deal didn't work out) and I lowered\nthe price again! \n\nCobra 146 GTL Single side band w/mike --> $75 or best offer!\n\n\ndave\n\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Cal Poly, \t\tLife, Liberty, and the\nSLO, CA 93401\t\tPursuit of Land Speed Records.\n\t\t\t\t-Autobahn Commuters", "^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^^\n^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nMy vivid imagination sez this is almost close enuff.\n\n$mail_to 00cjmelching@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu /users/neal/dod/faq.dod\n\nbut...... naw!!!\n", "I just ordered a Saturn SL1 after considering a few imports. Frankly, the Saturn\nway of doing business and service was a *very* big plus. I hadn't bought a new\ncar since I bought my Honda 4WD back in '85, and I was unbelieveably offended by\nmost salespeople I met.\n\nSaturn was indeed very different. I made three different visits to the dealer where\nI bought my car, and was never pressured. Saturn also had the best after-sales\nsupport, and the fixed pricing made it *very* easy for me to decide exactly what\nI wanted to buy. Another big selling point was running into my mechanic at the\ndealer. He's been fixing imports for 20 years...and bought a Saturn, based on\nwhat he's seen and heard from his customers. \n\nSaturn also has a good extended warranty program; $675 for 6 year/60K miles, \nfully refunded if you don't use it. That works out to an actual cost of $170 or\nso, based on the 6 year treasury rates. Using savings account rates it's more\nlike $120. In the first three years it also buys you free rental during any\nwarranty work, without counting against the refund.", "\nI'm not sure about the helmet but for chin questions you might\nwant to write to a:\n\n Jay Leno\n c/o Tonight Show \n Burbank Calif.\n \nGood luck.", "\n\n\n\n\nI'll second that!! I saw a list somewhere of all the stuff that it was \nunwise to buy secondhand - stuff like parachutes, toilet paper, condoms\nand motorcycle helmets...", "\n: To those of you who have the BMW heated handgrips:\n\n: \tWhat are they like during the summer? Yes, you\n: \twiseguy, I mean while they are off!\n\n: \tAre they comfortable? Do they transmit a lot of\n: \tvibration? How do they compare to the stock grips?\n: \tTo foam grips? \n\n: Do they really make a difference during the winter?\n\nI just got a K75 and had the heated grips installed. As far as I can\ntell the grips look and feel the same as the standard grips. \nThey are *not* soft. Last weekend I did a 500 mile round-trip and\ngot to a point where it was in the 30s and raining. Those heated\ngrips were *great*. I've only had the bike a month and the heated\ngrips are already one of my favorite features on the bike.", "As a new BMW owner I was thinking about signing up for the MOA, but\nright now it is beginning to look suspiciously like throwing money\ndown a rathole.\n When you guys sort this out let me know.\n", "I would gladly spend twice the money for insurance, rather than using\nGeico. Not only do they supply radar guns to the police they also want\nto make radar detectors illegal. They also ask if you have a detector\n(probably to put you in a high risk group or just refuse to insure you).\n\nI know a few people who were droped by geico due to an accident that\nwas not their fault.", "\nYou don't mention your riding area. If you're in the Eastern part\nof Ontario Canada, I may be able to help. I love 1 day runs and\nmore. More info needed.", "\n\nOn second thought, maybe he didn't invent wreck.moto - \n\n\the's trying a round about way to figure out the DoD theme song.\n\nOne FAQ, coming right up!\n\n\n Charlie Smith, DoD #0709, doh #0000000004, 1KSPT=22.85", ": >\n: >Well, at least I damaged my own bike. If I had done it to someone else's\n: >property I'd *really* feel like a jerk. As it is I just feel stupid.\n: >\n: I don't mean to be a cynic but . . . . you may want to reconsider\n: having the body work done right away. The same type of thing\n: may happen again. Wait till you get used to the bike, etc.\n\nWell, I waited a whole week to take the pastic bits off and take them\nto the body shop. Is that long enough :-)\n--", "\n\nHaving spoken to technical staff from Ford many times, I can assure you that \ninternally at Ford this car is always called the Taurus \"Show\" or just \n\"the Show\". As in long \"o\" sound. I still refer to it as the \"S-H-O\",\nhowever, because it sounds better to me. I assume many purist fans and owners \nprefer using the Ford lingo. ", "\n Vintage Brakes\n 176 Bluefield Ave.\n Newbury Park, CA. 91320\n (805)498-5527\n\n They reline all types of obsolete motorcycle brake shoes with Ferodo\nmaterial.\n\n\n Place to try:\n\n Deutsches Motorrad Register\n 8663 Grover Place\n Shreveport, LA 71115\n (club for all types of two-wheeled German equipment, including\n scooters. I periodically see ads for Maico scooter stuff in their\n newsletter.)\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------", "Sebastian C Sears, on the Tue, 13 Apr 1993 02:32:13 GMT wibbled:\n\n: ... Came around a right hand sweeper (going around\n: \t45 mph) only to find a cager going around 30 mph, calmly driving \n: along, with no other traffic around, in *my* lane. Not crossing \n: the line, not swerving, fully and totally within the south-bound \n: lane of 9W (one lane each direction). \n\n\nAnd I haven't even got there yet. Must have been some other Brit...\n--\n\nNick (the English Biker) DoD 1069 Concise Oxford Left is Right\n\nM'Lud.", "\nI have a feeling that you are not \"the enemy\". There are without a doubt \ndickhead cops. But there are at least as many dickhead bikers, even here \n(you know who you are :-). I will certainly give you the same benefit of \nthe doubt as any other biker here. Welcome.\n\nI think I can speak for the entire DoD in this.\n\n\n(Hey guys, free ride in Georgia!!!)", "I can't think of another subject that generates as much contradictory\nadvice as traffic laws and their enforcement. Everybody's got an\nopinion and is dead certain they are right. Yet acurate information is\nextremely difficult to come by. The DMV doesn't know. Cops don't\nknow. Your traffic school instructor doesn't know. The vehicle code\nonly tells part of the story. Judges choose to interpret the laws in a\nwide variety of ways. And the public at large? I seldom hear any\nadvice that doesn't disagree with something I've experienced.\n\nIf you don't believe me I suggest you get a copy of the vehicle code,\nstudy it, and then sit in on a day or two of court and see what really\nhappens. Read \"Fight Your Ticket\" too, but don't miss the little\nsection at the end where it says your chances are lousy and you're\nbasically screwed.\n\nAs you may have guessed, I'm pretty down on the system here in\nCalifornia. I've carefully prepared for court, bringing witnesses and\nrevealing serious holes in the officer's story, only to be slapped with\nthe maximum allowable fine (plus assessments of over 100%) - the\nmessage clear that the judge does not appreciate John Q Public trying\nhis own cases.\n\nSo here's my advice when you find yourself with a ticket: Take traffic\nschool if you can. If it's a serious matter get a lawyer. A lawyer\ncan present the exact same case as you, the difference is the\nsentence.", "\n\n What I don't understand is why \n\n\n\nYep. They are popular vehicles. You don't see a lot of previous model year\nones sitting on dealer's lots for any lenghth of time after the new ones are\nout. The things sell, they are popular.\n\nBecause they are popular, and high-priced new, they are high price used, very\nsimple.\n\nI knew they were overpriced when I bought it... I knew they had a terrible \nreliability record when I bought it. But I didn't expect anything like I\ngot, especially with a dealer network unable to repair it. Personal experience\nhas quickly cured me of my infatuation with the machine.", "\n\nMake that buying a *first* bike- a new bike is not generally a good first\nbike...\n\n", "\nWell... all the way through a decreasing-radius corner, anyway...\n\n\nOK (but I'm right!) :^)\n\n\nIf that's the \"official line\" taught in those rider education classes\nyou were refering to, that also don't teach countersteering, I have to\nquestion the quality of the classes. The \"official line\" in MSF\ncurricula is as I described. Maximum braking is achieved by applying\nboth brakes equally, when the weight distribution is nominally even and\nboth tires have equal normal forces, and easing off on the rear to\nprevent locking it, and increasing braking on the front, as more\ntraction is available to the front due to increased normal force due to\nweight shift.\n\nThe \"official line\" you have been taught seems ineffective on the face\nof it. Applying the rear brake after the front is not taking advantage\nof all the traction available to the rear at time 0, and is halving the\navailable braking power by using only the front at time 0.\n\n\nNot necessarily true. \"Chirping\" the tire indicates impending lockup\n(on most surfaces), and serves as a good guide to newbies to indicate\nmaximum braking. I agree that totally locking the front occasionally\nmakes one a better rider, but it is a manuver best saved for an\nexperienced rider, unless you have one of those outrigger bikes like\nCode used to use.\n\n\nTrue, but from the point of view of how to best *teach* riding skills\n(which is how this discussion started), \"keep both wheels just on the\npoint of sliding\" is nearly useless information. You need to teach a\n*technique*, or at least a strategy, to achieve this.\n", "Yeah... and BMW 525e has 2.7 litres\n\t\t535 3.4 \n\nBTW - can someone out there please tell me how to put someone else's file \non and then reply to that so the other person's file and my own 'reply' go\nto the newgroups together? (ps: just mail me personally) ", "I just visited the NY Auto Show, and saw two LH cars on the floor: Eagle \nVision and Dodge Intrepid. \n\nReally nice I must say. Very attractive styling, lots of features and room, \nat a competitive price. \n\nUnfortunately, the workmanship is quite disappointing. On BOTH cars,\nthe rubber seals around the window and door fell off. It turns out\nthe seals are just big grooved rubber band. It goes on just by pressing\nthe groove against the tongue on the door frame. Surely it would come\noff easily.\n\nI am not sure how many of this kind of pooring engineering/assembly\nproblems that will show up later.\n\nI may still consider buying it, but only when it establishes a good\ntrack record.", "joe, i'm sorry you felt i was pissing on your list. no disparagement\nwas intended and i would be most interested to know what i said that\nmade you feel that way. i am not suggesting that your list is\nsuperflous nor that it will not serve a need. i just would like not\nto see the boxer contingent split, but there is certainly enough net\nfor more than one list.\n-- \n-- bob pasker\n-- rbp@netcom.com", "Derek....\n\nThere is a tool available to reset the service indicator on BMWs but the lights\nwill come back on after 2-3 weeks. The tool is in fact illegal (in Europe \natleast). It is often the case that the unsuspecting punter trots off to buy a \nused BMW and a few weeks later, all the lights come on! Other than that, I know \nof no other tool.... anyone else? \n\nAbout changing oil every 15,000 miles.... thats ok.... on newer Audis, they \nonly require it after every 12,000 miles (I am talking about an oil change)\nJust a query: do you drive your car VERY VERY carefully? Like no sudden \nacceleration etc? If yeah, then the 15,000 M oil change seems quite reasonable.\nBut if you drive kinda fast... I'd get a bit up tight abot that 15,000 thingy\n\n(a point to note: just because the first light came on at 3k, doesn't mean\nall the others will come on every 3k too)", "\nThe GS300 and SC300 have an inline 6.\n\n\nInline 4 is correct.\n", "was\nYuppies\nstarted\nYep, that's when I noticed it too. I stopped replacing the hood badge \nafter the second or third one (at $12.00 each).\n\n2002 drivers used to flash their headlight at each other in greeting. Try \nflashing your headlights at a 318i driver and see what kind of look you \nget. They usually check their radar detector...they think you're alerting \nthem to a cop.", "\n\tIs there a Honda mailing list, and if so how do I subscribe to it?\n", "\n\tYup. Radar detectors that detect Ka band will pick up photo radar\nas it's reflected from some poor slob ahead of you that just got nailed.\n\n\tBTW, many photo radar installations in the southern U.S. became\ntargets for high-powered rifles, or had their lenses \"decorated\" with cow\nflop, etc. Not that I'm advocating destruction of public property, but you\nget the picture....\n\nLater,", "\nI bought a set of ARE's a few months back and decided to add locks\nso that I could keep my new rims. I haven't had a balance problem \nyet so I assume that it might be just particular to your type of\nstock nuts. My rims were balanced with new BFG T/A's at a speed \nshop to the finest setting on their bal. machine, so that helps too.", ")> Here's to the 3 asshole scooter owners who TRIPLE PARKED behind my\n)> bike today. \n)\n)Jim calling other prople assholes, what's next?\n ^^^^^^\n\nIf you're going to flame, learn to spell.\n\n)Besides, assholeism is endemic to the two-wheeled motoring community.\n\nWhy I do believe that Jason, the wise, respected (hahahha), has just made a\nstereotypical remark. How unsophisticated of you. I'm so sorry you had to\ncome out of your ivory tower and stoop (as you would say), to my , obviously,\nlower level.\n\nBesides, geekism is endemic to the albino-phoosball playing community (and\nthose who drive volvos)\n\n\nRemember ,send your flames to jrobbins@cs.ucla.edu\n-- \nI need what a formal education can not provide.", "\nMy reason for saying that was 'cause _I_, if _I_ were a cop\nwouldn't go out of my way to tell people how to break the law.\n\nWould you?\n\nThe part about honesty was a joke, sorta.\n\nObviously, people have had bad experiences with cops\nlying. Obviously, nobody's perfect and nobody\n_always_ tells the truth about everything.\n\n(Or are you God? 1/4 ;)\n\n", "NMM>From: nielsmm@imv.aau.dk (Niels Mikkel Michelsen)\nNMM>Subject: How to act in front of traffic jerks\n\nNMM>The other day, it was raining cats and dogs, therefor I was going only to\nNMM>the speed limit, on nothing more, on my bike. This guy in his BMW was\nNMM>driving 1-2 meters behind me for 7-800 meters and at the next red light I\nNMM>calmly put the bike on its leg, walked back to this car, he rolled down the\nNMM>window, and I told him he was a total idiot (and the reason why).\n\nNMM>Did I do the right thing?\n\nNMM>Yours Truly :\n\nNMM> Niels Mikkel\n\nWell, sounds great to me! When I have a real BDI cager tailgating me,\nI've found that an effective strategy is to flash my brake light by\npumping the pedal. You will, obviously need a bit of free play in your\nbrake pedal to do this. It seems that even the most brain dead idiot can\nusually discern that a flashing red light directly in front of\nhim/her/it may mean that something is wrong.\n\nThe two problems I'd see with your strategy is that the red light may\nchange before you can get anything meaningful out of your mouth, or the\noccupant(s) may take exception to your opinions and demonstrate such\nphysically (on you or your now-parked bike). Admittedly, the latter is a\nslim chance, but it would be enough to give me pause.\n\n\n * SLMR 2.1a * sometimes you get to be the windshield, sometimes the bug\n ", "Yesterday, a friend had asked me to accompany him to a local motorcycle\ndealer. It has been a while since he last rode (>10 years), and I myself\nhave never bought a new bike from a dealer. What follows is an experience\nof that visit and of an observation of \"SQUILDLY\" behavior by other \ncustomers and/or sales personel:\n\nBACKGROUND:\n\nI ride with a group of friends, who mainly are into \"cruiser\" type bikes. My\nfriend was hell bent on getting an Intruder and had seen a few used ones. He\nwanted to see what the new ones were going for, so we happened upon a dealer\nthat sold both Suzuki and Yamaha. \n\nThe place was fairly busy, so we browsed a bit. We happened upon a few \nIntruders, most of which had SOLD signs on. My friend had been bitten.\n\nWell the salesdroid appeared and as my friend started chewing the fat, I \nmoseid on outside. The next thing I know, I see 3 or 4 sport bikes pull in.\nI could stereo-type the type of riders (backward ball hat, oakley, IQ <40),\nbut I won't. Well they went inside, I didn't think much of it. I figured\nto each his own. I went back in to see if the salesdroid had his fangs\nfirmly implanted into my friends back, when I noticed the \"hormone gang\"\ntalking to other salesdroids/managers. Lot's of laughter, jokes etc. No big\ndeal.\n\nHere is the part that concerned me. The \"HG\" and those shop personel that were\nnot busy with customers went back out, where said \"HG\" members fired up their\nrides and did the obligatory reving up of those 600 beasts. At this point,\none decided to see how much rubber a Katana 600 could deposit in the drive.\n\nSQUIDS, I thought to myself. BUT I was appalled that the salesdroids/manager\nnot only condoned this behavior, but encourged it, to the point were they\nwere betting how long he could keep it up and egged him on to pull a wheely\nas he rode off onto a busy street around rush hour. THe girl that was riding pillion on another bike, seemed rather hormonal about this display, and urged her\n\"pilot\" to quickly catch up. The others followed, making sure there Kerkers\ncould be heard as well as felt.\n\nI felt embarassed at this point to be a motorcyclist. I felt the eyes of those\nin cages, witnessing this display, then glancing over to the dealers lot and\ndamning all those on two wheels. Needless to say, my friend felt a little\nuncomfortable and we left. \n\nI will now turn off my frustration and go ride... peacefully, to clear my\nanger. I only hope that the cop who is following me home, has an open\nmind and doesn't associate me with them. ", "I spoke to a sales dweeb in 3X, a Ducati dealer here in Blighty, and he had\nnothing good to say about them... it appears they are waaaay underpowered,\n(basically, it's the 750/900 with a 400cc engine), and there have been some\nquality problems (rusty _frame_ !!). Save your pennies... buy the 900 :)\n", "*******************************************************\n 1969 karmann ghia\n*******************************************************\n\nThis car is in excellent running condition:\n *********\n *49,000 mi on new engine\n *new tires (Aug 92)\n *new clutch (91)\n *new carb (91)\n *original radio (am/fm)\n *upholstery in great shape\n *burgundy exterior/ black interior\n\nThis car has been well-maintained with regular tune-ups.\nUnfortunately, the car's previous owner had a minor\nfront-end collision. The right front nose is dented\nand patched up with bondo. I have the hard-to-find part\nneeded to repair this damage. Besides that damage, the car\nis in excellent condition. $1600/bo", "Anyone in Europe got any advice for a US citizen whose going to be living\nand working in Italy for a year and wants to buy a motorcycle there? An\nItalian friend just arrived here in Washington State to work for two years,\nand she's finding it very very difficult to obtain car insurance. So I\nthought I'd ask...\n\nI have a US license, with motorcycle endorsement (unlimited displacement),\nand have had for 30 years. I am also a Washington State Motorcycle Safety\ninstructor, if that info might help.\n\nI will post a summary, even if it's just of my own personal experience in \nbuying a bike and getting it insured after I get to Italy.", "\nActually, a WERA racer, William Lumsden, considered running a Vmax in \nA Superstock. He took it out to Talladega GPR for a practice day, and\n_really_ annoyed the 600 riders -- they usually got caught behind a \nsideways Vmax in the corners, and if they passed him going in, he'd\nblow by down the straight (usually wobbling). Needless to say, since\nhe was 2 seconds faster on a 1977 CB400F, he decided against the Vmax.\n\nToo bad.\n", "}first I thought it was an 'RC31' (a Hawk modified by Two Brothers Racing),\n}but I did not think that they made this huge tank for it. Additionally,\n\nAs someone who was told quite firmly by 2 Honda sales/service weenies\nthat there is no larger tank available for the Hawk (I have a '91\nHawk with the puny 3.2 gal tank), I'd be very interested to know if\nthere is any decent aftermarket solution. I'd love to have at least\na 4 gal tank.", "\nWell, first you work out how much cold gas you need, then make the\ntanks big enough.\n\nWorking out how much cold gas is another problem, depending on\nvehicle configuration, flight duration, thruster Isp (which couples\ninto storage pressure, which may be a factor in selecting tank\nwall thickness etc.)", "Review of 1989 Ford Taurus SHO -- By Gene Kim\n=============================================\n\nBackground:\n\n Last week, I bought a 1989 Ford Taurus SHO, moving up from driving\na 1987 Toyota Celica ST and a 1975 Oldsmobile Cutlass. I have been\ninterested in buying a SHO for about five months and have been combing\nthe classifieds in Denver and Chicago every week. I bought a\nremarkably clean maroon/red SHO with 92K miles on it for $6800.\nAs far as I can tell, this is about $2000 under Blue Book and I still\nhave another 8000 miles before the Extended Service Plan runs out.\n\n As one should with any pre-1991 SHOs, I made sure that the car was\nalready refit with the upgraded clutch and pressure plate, as well as\nhaving been recalled for upgraded rotors and seatbelt attachments.\nHowever, my SHO does not have the newer rod shifter -- I understand I\ncan get this for $230 from any Ford service center. In addition, the\ncar received the full tune-up at 60K miles, receiving new platinum\nplugs and valve adjustment.\n\n For a car with 92K miles on it, the car was virtually immaculate.\nThe clearcoat paint job was devoid of any large chips or dents,\nalthough the front air-dam/molding was covered with lots of small\nscratches -- not surprising since most of the miles were spent on the\nhighway.\n\n Having driven a smaller two-door coupe for so long, I was a bit\nconcerned about whether I could get used to driving a larger car. To\nmy surprise, the size of the car doesn't bother me at all -- it seems\njust as nimble as my Celica! (No comparisons with my Oldsmobile. :-)\nVisibility from the driver's seat is excellent, helped mostly by of\nthe small the quarter-windows, aft of the back-seat door windows and\nin front of the C-pillar and rear window. Parallel parking is a bit\nmore difficult, but other than that, I love the size.\n\n In fact, I'm starting to appreciate the large trunk as I pack up\nfor a 14-hour drive to Washington, DC for the summer. More on the\nride later in this review.\n\n\nEngine:\n \n As with anyone even slightly interested in SHOs, I was very\ninterested in the 24-valve 3.0L Yamaha \"Shogun\" engine. I was not\ndisappointed. Base performance of the engine under 4000 rpms is\ngood. You can even do reasonable launches from second gear, although\nI don't make a practice of this. The engine revs smoothly and eagerly\n-- tooling around town does not require many shifts. This is good\nsince the shifter is definitely one of the weakest points of the car.\n(More on this later.)\n\n While the performance of the engine under 4000 rpms may be\nunremarkable, it undergoes a Jekyll/Hyde transformation once you hit\nhigher revs. At 4500 rpms, a butterfly valve opens and you can\nliterally hear and feel the geometry of the engine changing as twelve\nmore valves open up. The engine soars to its 7000 rpm redline, and\nyou are treated to, in my opinion, the sweetest sounding V6 around.\nThe engine inexplicably sounds OVERJOYED to be at 6500 rpm!\n\n I've noticed that when I drive around town, I constantly watch the\ntach to see how far below 4000 rpm I am. To go from 2000 rpm to 4000,\nyou may have to punch the accelerator -- while torque is more than\nadequate, it doesn't come fully online until those other 12 valves\nare used.\n\n\nTransmission:\n\n When _Car and Driver_ first reviewed the car in 1988, they\nmarvelled at how Ford had put such a wimpy clutch and balky shifter\ninto the car. I remember driving a friend's parent's SHO in 1990, and\nremember thinking about whether I had the leg strength to drive the\ncar in traffic -- the clutch was that stiff. That was back then.\n\n The entire clutch assembly on my SHO has been replaced under a\nFord recall in 1991. The clutch on the SHO feels no stiffer than the\none on my Toyota Celica. In fact, the friction point seems a bit\nlarger and more forgiving.\n\n When playing with the shifter with the car parked, the shifter\nfelt very reasonable. The 1-2 and 3-4 gates were where you'd expect\nit to be, and the shifting action was smooth. On the road, it's\nmuch the same -- but you have to shift SLOWLY! Make no mistake, it's\na clumsy shifter.\n\n When hurrying shifts, like when I was initially trying to impress\nfriends, I consistently miss the 1-2 shift, often grope clumsily for\nthe 2-3 shift, and sometimes even muff the 3-4 shift. I find this\npretty amazing in a car like this.\n\n It also took me several days to realize that you get the smoothest\nshifts when you take your time. Seems obvious, but compared to my\nToyota and my friend's Honda, this seems atrocious and clumsy.\nSomeone on rec.autos noted that CRXs should blow SHOs off-the-line\nbecause of the incredibly clumsy shifter.\n\n I now shift much more sedately, and the shifter seems more\nreasonable. When you play within these bounds, the shifter works\nsmoothly with no surprises. I don't know whether the rod shifter\nupgrade would help at all.\n\n Along these same lines, I initially had trouble shifting gears\nsmoothly. Again, slowing down the shifts and taking more care to\nmatch revs when letting out the clutch helped immensely. This took\nseveral days for me to get the hang of. (I think some of my problems\nwere because I've never had a car with enough power to balk at bad\nshifts in higher gears.)\n\n Occasionally, I have trouble shifting into reverse. The shifter\nrefuses to enter the gate, and I often grind the synchros trying to \nget it into gear. I'll be watching this carefully in the next couple\nof months.\n\n A quirk: When I upshift and the engine drops back to 1000-2500\nrpm, I hear a whirring and then a grinding noise coming from the the\nengine compartment. Not terribly loud, but the passenger can\ndefinitely hear it. I asked about it when I was looking at the car,\nas do all my passengers. Apparently, this is a definitely a \"SHO\nsound\" and is the gearbox -- apparently called \"gear rollover\".\nReplies to my queries on rec.autos are at the end of this review.\n\n\nExterior:\n\n As I mentioned before, I am astounded by how well the body of this\nSHO has stood up. Paint chipping on the front bumper and grille are\nvirtually non-existent. Looking at how older Tauri sometimes\ndon't age so gracefully, I wonder what the guys at Ford did\ndifferently to the SHO bodies.\n\n The body, in my opinion, is extremely attractive with matching\ncolor body moldings than the stock Tauri. For some odd reason, the\nSHO seems different enough from vanilla Tauri to get stares at\nstoplights -- of course, this could be my overactive imagination.\n:-) SHOs get fog lights, a more open grille, a completely\nmonochromatic exterior, and a deeper ground skirt in the back with\n\"SHO\" stenciled in relief. I've seen a couple SHOs whose owners have\ncolored these in with florescent colors or in black. Yuck.\n\n I don't think the car is flashy. I like it that way. I feel\nalmost anonymous with all those Tauri out there, but different and\ndistinctive enough to those of us who care. :-)\n\n\nInterior:\n\n The interior is what really makes me feel like I don't deserve the\ncar. The seats are grey leather, the steering wheel and shifter are\ncovered with black leather, and the entire instrument panel is done in\na black/grey/metallic scheme. \n\n The instrumentation is stock Taurus, except for the 140 mph speedo\nand 8000 rpm tach. You get a center console with two cupholders, a\nlarge compartment under the radio (great for a CD player), an armrest\nthat contains yet another compartment, three appropriately sized coin\nholders for tollways (I think), and a compartment for holding\ncassette tapes. There's map-holders in the doors, and an oddly small\nglove compartment.\n\n I spilled a whole can of Coke in the cupholder and was delighted\nto find that the entire rubber holder can be removed and washed in a\nsink. Hey, I'm really impressed with the ergonomics and\nthoughtfulness that went into its design. And it's a 1989, before the\ninterior was upgraded!\n\n The backseat is bigger than any car I've had. Why do they need so\nmuch space? :-) (No smart-ass comments, please. :-)\n\n The driver and passenger seat have lumbar and side bolsters. From\nwhat I hear, it's not uncommon for the side bolsters to show wear.\nMine is no exception. The left side bolster on the driver's has\ncracked and I'm not convinced the right bolster is inflating all the\nway.\n\n A big surprise for me: I forgot that SHOs don't have a normal\nhand parking brake. Instead, they have the regular parking brake that\nyou press with your left foot. Too bad. Again, I'm getting used to\nit, but it seems a bit anachronistic to me.\n\n\nRide:\n\n The suspension is nice and stiff. Too stiff? It's stiffer than\nany car I've had. A friend's new 1993 Toyota Celica ST seems tauter\nand is still able to soak up bumps better. The SHO seems stiffer with\nless ability to soak up bumps. Driving over railroad tracks is a\nnoisy and jarring affair. On the other hand, taking turns feels\nwonderful because the body is so rigid and doesn't flex at all -- I\nlistened for that before I bought the car.\n\n On the highway, the ride is great. When I drove the car from\nChicago back to Purdue, I had trouble keeping under 85 mph, let alone\nfrom trying to see what 100 mph really feels like. It's a relatively\nquiet ride, but the sunroof rattles. I've tried to find out what\nexactly makes all the noise up there, but it seems to be the window\nthat rests on the rails. No easy way to get rid of it, I think.\n\n Over the past three days, I've oscillated between thinking the\nsuspension is wonderful and perfect and thinking that the ride is way\ntoo rough. (Not for me, mind you. But I wonder whether I would\nadvise my dad to buy one for himself.) But, I've discovered, as with\nthe shifter, if you take your time with shifts, you'll have no reason\nto complain. Let me explain...\n\n The ride is worst when turning and applying lots of power to the\nwheels. I feel the wheels scrabbling for traction and torque steer\nmaking the car skitter left and right. After I understood this, I\navoid the limits of traction -- and I'm a happy camper again.\n\n It's not body rigidity, but the composure of the car.\n\n As if matching the suspension, the steering feel is quite heavy.\nMy first impression of driving my SHO was how hard you had to turn the\nwheel at highway speeds. It tracks straight as an arrow, but when\ndriving around a parking lot, the high-effort steering didn't seem so\nuseful. However, it's reasonable, but it doesn't communicate the road\nto the driver as well as a 1993 Ford Probe GT. IMHO, it's much better\nthan the steering on my Celica ST.\n\n I wonder how bad this car is during winter?\n\n\nMiscellaneous notes:\n\n GRIPES:\n\n The rattles from the sunroof is intermittent -- some days it rattles\n loudly, other days I look up wondering where all the noise went.\n\n Activating the sunroof is sometimes very noisy -- loud squealing as\n\tit retracts on its rails. I wonder if there is a quick fix for this.\n\tAgain, other days it completely disappears. (Function of humidity?)\n\n Once I made the connection between the sometimes awful feeling suspension\n\tand torque steer, I've never complained about ride.\n\n I wish the seats had more support under the thighs. Also, I wish the\n\tside bolsters would close more tightly. \n\n I hear that tires for this car can get really expensive. I\n\tcurrently have Goodyear GT+4s that cost the previous owner $500\n\tfor four.\n\n I used to hate the Ford stereo systems -- whose idea was it\n\tto use a volume *paddle*? Now, to my amazement, I don't\n\treally mind... and sometimes think it's an okay idea!!!\n\tPretty ridiculous, though.\n\n Getting up to 4000 rpm sometimes seems to be a chore. But,\n\tthis is no big deal. There is more than enough torque\n\tdown low.\n\n I often goof up the shifting when driving with friends. It\n\ttook me a couple of days before I could really shift\n\tsmoothly from 2nd to 3rd gear. (Hard to believe, isn't it?)\n\n My car has almost 93,000 miles on it. My parents noted that\n\tit is almost impossible to find a low-mileage SHO. \n\tAstute observation, IMHO. I wonder how long I can make\n\tmy SHO last -- I just bought a book titled \"Drive It Forever\"\n\tfor tips in this department. :-)\n\n The goofy parking brake pedal still throws me for a loop. I once\n\tparked the car in gear, and then accidentally let out the clutch\n\tafter I started it. The car jolted forward, and bounced off\n\tthe car in front of me -- no paint damage at all, but starting the car \n\tis a whole new ritual for me with that fangled pedal! Also, I began \n\tto wonder how strong that brake really is. (Today, I backed out of \n\tparking spot today and started to drive away before I noticed \n\tthe glowing brake light. Oops.)\n\n The driver's power window creaks when closed all the way. The same\n \tthing happens in my parents 1989 Mercury Sable. Oddly, all the\n\tother windows work smoothly.\n\n\n LIKES:\n\n I'm liking the interior amenities more and more each day. The\n \tcupholders are great.\n\n I didn't expect to use the keyless entry buttons so much, but\n\tit really is handy. You can lock all the doors by\n\tpressing the 7/8 and 9/10 buttons together! Neat! And\n\tyou can never lock yourself out of the car.\n\n I really feel like I don't deserve this car. I really can't\n\tbelieve that I could afford it. I got this car ten years \n\tahead of schedule. :-)\n\n I love this car so much that I've been telling my parents to\n\tlook into buying one. I love this car so much that I\n\twrote this 13K file -- I meant to write a couple of lines\n\tand ended up with this. \n\n If there were a J.D. Powers Survey for used car owners, I would have\n\tan opportunity to express my incredible satisfaction of owning this \n\tcar. I don't like thinking about getting another car, but at this\n\tpoint in time, I'm sure I'd buy another SHO. For under $7000, you\n\tcan't beat it. (Next time with an airbag and ABS, though.)\n\n Insurance-wise, this car is also a big win. I pay the same premiums\n\tas on my 1987 Toyota Celica -- despite that it has nearly twice\n\tthe horsepower. \n\n\n\nOther Odds and Ends:\n\n Much to my amazement, there is no SHO mailing list anywhere.\nMaybe because the _SHO Registry_ publication has filled this void. I\nhaven't joined yet, but I've noticed that queries about SHOs still\nappear on rec.autos about once a month. Owners of SHOs are always\nquick to respond, and are very vocal fans of the cars. (Maybe some\nof the most vocal on rec.autos. :-)\n\n I've put together the responses to my questions about the cars, as\nwell as other posts with useful information on these cars. I'll be \nposting this in the form of a FAQ soon. \n\n If anyone is interested in starting a mailing list, please speak up!\nI don't know if I have the resources here at Purdue to start one, but \nmaybe someone out there does.\n", "\nLook, guy, I doubt anyone here approves of Drunk Driving, but if\nhe's been caught and convicted and punished maybe you ought to\nlighten up? I mean, it isn't like most of us haven't had a few\nand then ridden or driven home. *We* just didn't get caught.\nAnd I can speak for myself and say it will *never* happen again,\nbut that is beside the point.\n\nIn answer to the original poster: I'd insure whatever vehicle\nis cheapest, and can get you to and from work, and suffer\nthrough it for a few years, til your rates drop.\n\nAnd *don't* drink and drive. I had one friend killed by a \ndrunk, and I was rear ended by one, totaling my bike (bent\nframe), and only failing to kill me because I had an eye\non my mirror while I waited at the stoplight.\n\nRegards, Charles\nDoD0.001\nRZ350", "Interesting. I'd fight the ticket. First off, there's a 50/50 chance\nthe cop won't show up. Secondly, if he does show up, you should point\nout that he lied (purgered) on the ticket. Why 70+? I beleive that if\nyo're charged with going more than 15mph that the posted speed it's a\nmore severe ticket. You couldn't have p[ossibly been going 70+, right?!\n", "\n\n\n\nSure, but the surface condition of most good autobahns is far better\nthan most of the roads here. A dip in the asphalt that you test your\nshocks on at 60 will kill you at 130. Don't get me wrong, I love to\ndrive quickly and they say my Probe will do 130, but that's 30 more\nthan I've ever tried in it cause there isn't a decent enough piece\nof road hereabouts.\n", "My Honda Accord just hit the magic 100,000 mile mark and now\nall sorts of things are beginning to go bad. The latest problem\nI am experiencing is with my brakes. They still stop the\ncar fine, but once I am stopped completely, my brake pedal\nwill sink another 2 or 3 inches all by itself. If feels really\nstrange, and I am worried my brakes will quit working one of\nthese days.\n\nI checked my brake fluid, and the reservoir was full, but the\nfluid itself looked really dirty (like dirty oil). I called\nmy mechanic and he told me I need a new brake master cylinder,\nwhich will cost me a whopping $250-300.\n\nI was just wondering if anyone out there has experienced this\nsort of thing. If so, is my mechanic being honest? Or do I\nsimply need to have my brakes bled and new fluid put in?\n\nAny help you could provide would be appreciated. Please send\nreplies directly to me, as I rarely have a chance to read this\nlist. I will post the responses if there is any interest.\n\nThanks,", "\nactually, teh D means the registered driver has diplomatic immunity.\nThat means they can do as they damn well please on the roads, and you\nhave only God as your protection. \n\nThe state Department Issues Saa-XXX plates for personnel who work\nat the embassies but haven't been granted immunity. Most embassies\nhave restricted parking for embassy personell street side. \n\nThe S plates allow them to use those parking areas as well as the\nrestricted lots at National and State dept, without a lot of crap.", "\n\n\nW/r/t performance, converter lockup is purely irrelevant. The lockup only\noccurs at light throttle settings and serves only to improve MPG. Mind you,\na converter clutch does a lovely job of improving MPG, but the additional\nmechanical advantage of the converter gives you more acceleration (vs. locked\nconverter clutch) than its inherent losses take away.\n", "Victor Johnson, on the Thu, 22 Apr 1993 00:01:10 GMT wibbled:\n\n: > }Honda: a \"V\" designates a V engine street bike. \"VF\" for V-4, \"VT\" for V-twin.\n: > \n: > So how about my Honda Hawk (NT 650)? It's a twin, but not called a VT.\n: > -- \n\n: That's because they took the old VT 500 engine and stepped on it to make\n: the plant for the Hawk -> \"New Twin\". Or does that only fly for Microsoft\n: NT (New Technology)?\n\n: I've been at this too long today ...\n\n: Cheers,\n: Victor \"Dances with Hawks\" Johnson\n: ----------------------------------\n\n\nAlso the BMW stuff. K100RS. K = Kraut, RS = Really Slow, 100, I\nsuppose that's how much you have to spend each week to keep the damn\nthing on the road.\n--\n\nNick (the Pissed Off With His Bike Again Biker) DoD 1069 Concise Oxford\n\nM'Lud.", "\n\n\nThe Honda ST1100 was designed by Honda in Germany, originally for the \nEuropean market, as competition for the BMW 'K' series. Check it out.\n\nTony", "About a year and half ago when I first started riding, I took a MSF course. I\nhave taken those lessons to heart. Over the past year I have had only a few \nnear collisions with traffic morons on four wheels. Yesterday I got to add\nanother to the list but with this one I felt the most helpless. I am sitting\nat a light about 1 - 2 car lengths behind a car, a wise decsion. Suddenly I \nhear screeching tires. I dart my eyes to my mirrors and realize it's the \nmoroon flying up right behind me, in my panic I pop my clutch and stall the\nbike. Luckily the guy stops a foot behind my rear wheel.", "& Can somebody tell me what all the letter spesifications on motorcycle models \n& really mean. \n& Example: What means the C, the B and the R in Honda CBR. - Or the V, S, G, L \n& and P in Suzuki VS750GLP\n\nHonda: a \"V\" designates a V engine street bike. \"VF\" for V-4, \"VT\" for V-twin.\n\"CB\" is a street bike with an parallel twin or inline 4-cylinder engine.\n\"R\" used to mean race bike, but is now also used to mean sport bike.\n\"CL\" was for the old steet scramblers-street bikes with high pipes\n\"CM\" was a \"custom\" street bike\n\"CR\" is dirt only two strokes\n\"XL\" is dual purpose bike\n\"XR\" was dirt only four stroke, but now can be a dual purpose bike if it has\nan \"L\" as a suffix.\n\"GL\" is a touring bike\n", "\n\tThats pretty hard since CB900 customs weren't introduced\n\tuntil 1980. If you find a pre-80 one, hold onto it. It\n\twill be worth big bucks some day.\n\n\n\tMine has comstar wheels. Methinks you need to do\n\tyour homework better.\n\n\n\tAnd obviously, neither do you.\n", "I have a set of four 235-60-R14 Big O tires that I had on my 1988 Thunder \nBird. We bought them and then traided the car in. They would not give me \nanything for them so I had them taken off. We drove about 2,000 miles on \nthem. They are 40,000 mile tires. They are sporty looking low-profile, and \ntake corners realy well. If you are interested please contact me at (208)384-\n9236 OR DUSMADSO@IDBSU.IDBSU.EDU I am in IDAHO. USA\n", "\n\tI'm no mustang head, but don't the early ones have a simple\nstrut suspension (that is, with no upper A-arm)? Just a strut\ngoing down to a lower control arm (single bushing: not an A-arm), with a\ntension/compression rod locating it in the forward/backward direction?\n\n\tAnyway, simple strut suspensions like this can be lowered just by using\nshorter springs, cutting the springs, lowering the spring perch or shortening\nthe strut below the perch. In each of these cases, the suspension geometry\nwill suffer because the lower control arms will not be at the\nintended angle. A spacer placed between control arm and the bottom\nof the strut (roughly the height of the reduction) will restore\nthe suspension geometry. IMHO, the kit that includes the spacer\nis the only way to go...\n\n--Ken", "I'd like to thank everyone who took the time to respond to my post about \nfighting my ticket.\n\nMany of you wrote to say that you have successfully fought and won your \ncase in court. Others lost due to the cop outright lying to the judge \nabout the circumstances surrounding your ticket, while one fellow lost\nbecause the judge just didn't appear to be in the mood for such foolishness.\n\nSeveral of you suggested that I obtain a book called \"Fight Your Ticket\".\n\nThe general theme from those who said \"go for it\", was to be prepared. \nI should do as much research as possible, go back and review the scene, \ntranscribe what happened to tape or paper, use any witnesses that may \nhave been around, have a list of questions to ask the cop and/or the judge,\nand to be positive and assertive. I am innocent until proven guilty! \n\nA few people suggested trying to get my court date changed, as this might \ntrip up the arresting officer, he may not show up if the date is on his day\noff or if he feels/knows that he doesn't have a chance to win against you.\n\nOne individual stated that an Officer could be an Expert Witness, and if he\nsays I was speeding, then by damn, I was speeding.\n\nAnother says that I must have been paced or clocked with a radar gun.\n\nLots of good suggestions and ideas from you all. I'll let you know what\nhappens after the big day!\n\n/-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\\\n\n", "Hi Folks,\n\nI recently bought a 1981 Mercury Capri (my first car ever!).\nI have noticed a few problems with the car :\n\n\t1. It gives very low gas mileage (something like\n 11 miles / gallon ; I hear other car owners speak of\n gas-mileage figures like 25 miles/gallon (wow!) etc.).\n\n\t2. When I start the car, it goes into high idling (something\n like 1500 (or is it 15000 ?) rpm. After driving 4 or 5 miles, \n it comes down to 300 (or 3000?) rpm. \n\nI would like to know if there is any way by which I can fix these\nproblems. Or is it natural for an old car like this ? (it has\ndone about 117,000 miles). Someone suggested that I change/rebuild/\nrecondition the carburettor. I am not prepared to do it\nunless I am sure it will fix the problem. And yes, I got the\ncar tuned-up recently (within the last 200 miles or so).\n\nPlease let me know if you have any suggestions. Please respond\nby email since I don't scan this newsgroup regularly.\n\nThanks.\n\nRegards,\n\n--Sudhi.\n\n-- \nSira Gopinath Sudhindranath. email : sudhi@ucs.usl.edu.", "\n\"Petroleum naphtha,\" available at most hardware stores, will remove most\nadhesives.\n\n--", "reasonable \n\nThat's probably true but it's the closest to it that you're going to get. \nThe actual dealer cost depends on a lot of things and even the dealer \nprobably doesn't know exactly what it will be until all the factory \nkick-backs, incentives, etc. are paid and that often depends on his volume \nat the end of the month/quarter/whatever. It might be a funny munber but \nit's all you have to start with, except the sticker, and anyone who pays \nsticker price is really being ripped off.", "85'Mazda GLC\n\n\t-\t58K miles\n\t-\tcharcoal grey, 4-dr\n\t-\tautomatic transmission\n\t-\tA/C , Stereo System with 4-way speaker\n\t-\trear window defrost, cruise control\n\t-\tNew water pump, front tires, headlight, heat shield.\n - 1 year old battery and transmission.\n\t-\tWell Maintained with all Records of purchase and service.\n - Inspection done in Feb'93\n\t-\tGood Condition\n - Reason for selling : Moving out of Austin.\n\n\t\t$ 2500.00 (negotiable)\n\t\tMust see to appreciate.\n\t\tcall or leave message on answering machine at 477-9429 \n or email to sc@che.utexas.edu\n", "\n\nIt's pretty complex, and Cd isn't the whole story either. Cd for cars is\nusually calculated based on the frontal area of the car. So a large car\nwith a good Cd could get the same drag force as a smaller car with a\npoorer Cd. \n\nTo calculate drag use this formula:\n\nD = 1/2 * rho * v^2 * Cd * S\n\nWhere D is the drag force (lbs), rho is the local air density (slugs/ft^3),\nV is the velocity (ft/s), and S is the frontal area (ft^2). Note that the\npieces called 1/2 * rho * v^2 are sometimes called qbar or dynamic pressure\n(a fancy aero term for air pressure or force). \n\nNote that power is:\n\nP = F * v\n\nWhere P is power (lbf-ft/s), F is the force, drag in this case (lbf) and v\nis velocity (ft/s). \n\nNote that if you put the whole equation into one (by substituting D for\nforce) you get a velocity _cubed_ term. That's why huge increases in power\nresult in little increases in speed. Ditto for decreases in Cd. \n\nSo if you have a 100 mph car and reduce Cd from .34 to .33, your new top\nspeed is: (sound of trumpet fanfare)\n\n101 mph\n\nSorry to dissappoint.\n\n", "\nThis is one of those \"yes, but\" things. It's true that a hydraulically\npressurized tube can be somewhat more rigid than an unpressurized tube,\nbut even at 2000 PSI levels a hydraulic hose will bend rather easily,\nthough it's straight-on compressive strength is high, and it's torsional \nresistance increase is practically nil. On the other grasping member, \nthere's no doubt that hydraulic \"leverage\" exists in nature. Tree roots \nare an example. Given time they can shatter concrete as osmotic pressure\nincreases.\n\n\nKangaroos 3-limbed? I don't think so. If you take the view that the\ntail is a limb, then monkeys and kangaroos are 5-limbed. I think the\ntail is a different kind of structure, grossly enlarged in the case\nof the kangaroo, but primarily still an instrument of balance rather\nthan locomotion. I don't know much about panda \"thumbs\", so I'll ask\nis it opposable?\n\n\nWell I won't say flat out that they can't be intelligent, but I'll\nbring a couple of lines of argument to bear to try to show why I\ndon't think it's likely. First let me say that when I say \"intelligent\"\nI mean complex behaviors in response to novel situations on a level\nwith, or greater than, human tool use and tool building. IE assuming\nsuitable manipulators are present on the creature to allow it to alter \nit's enviroment in a planned way, it will do so. That's certainly not\na universal or complete definition of intelligence, but it will suffice\nfor a putative technological alien.\n\nNow no one knows exactly what makes a brain capable of thought, but\nit's generally accepted that one of the criteria is a certain level\nof complexity. This is generally determined by the number of neuron\ncells, and their interconnections. So a creature the size of a lemur\nwouldn't have enough neurons to support complex thought. This argument\nis considerably less clear in the case of the dinosaur. There's room\nfor a large brain, though no indication that one ever developed. One\nreason this may be true is neuronic speed. The electrochemical messages \nthat trigger neurons require time to propagate. This makes it difficult\nfor a highly complex central brain to coordinate the movements of very\nlarge creatures. So there's little selection pressure for such brains.\nInstead, a simpler distributed network evolves. This doesn't rule out\nintelligent dinosaurs, but it points in that direction.\n\nThen there are the thermodynamic arguments. A tiny creature like the\nlemur needs to eat frequently because it's internal heat is rapidly\nlost due to it's high surface to volume ratio. I contend that a creature\nthat must spend most of it's time and energy feeding won't have the time\nto develop and exercise intelligence. That argument may be somewhat weak.\nThe dinosaur's problem is the reverse, it must moderate it's heat production \nbecause it's high volume to surface ratio makes it tend to retain waste heat. \nI'm assuming that a certain temperature range is optimal for chemical\nreactivity reasons for productive neuron function. So creatures would\ntend to need to maintain a regulated temperature in a range near that\nof humans if they are carbon based. That tends to rule out cold blooded\ncreatures as potential homes of intelligence. Some people contend that\nsome of the dinosaurs may have been warm blooded. But for a creature\nthe size of a brontosaur, it's activity levels would have to be restrained\nor it would be prone to generate an internal steam explosion from the\nwaste heat. Whales are similar size, but they can reject heat to the\nocean, a much more efficient sink than air. I suspect that for intelligence\nto manifest itself, a certain degree of activity in interacting with the\nenvironment is necessary. IE monkey curiousity. I doubt a large dinosaur\nwould be capable of that much activity.\n\nGary", "I bought a Yamaha XS850 with 8K miles. Over the last 2 years, I've put 30K\nof commute miles onnit. Valve adjustment intervals are suppossed to be every\n5K. Well every 7.5K or so, I've checked the pad clearences, and they never\nchange! If anything, the clearances seem to be getting a little smaller which\nmakes no sense to me with the pad system - the pads should wear until the\nclearances are too great right? I know that threaded adjusters can tighten \nup, but I didn't think these kind could.", "\nOne word \"HEAVY\". It steers heavy, turns require alot of effort. Hard to get\naccess to the large V-4 motor. Weak/small front forks with anti-dive gizmos!", "As a matter of interest does anyone know why autos are so popular in the US while \nhere in Europe they are rare??? Just wondering.....", " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nTherein lies the rub. The HD slash cut, or baloney cuts as some call\nthem, ARE NOT STOCK mufflers. They're sold for \"off-road use only,\"\nand are much louder than stock mufflers.", "<\n I know .... I know.", "\ntoyota has cornered the market on ugly station wagons.\nafter seeing the new camry sedan, i had thought toyota would\nfinally turn out something nice-looking. the new camry station\nwagon bears a strong resemblance to a hearse, and a weird looking\none at that.", "\nNo, they fold on the dotted line. Look at pictures of carriers with loads of\na/c on the deck, wings all neatly folded.", "\n\nlet me clarify, i think they both are 2.0 litres.\n", "\n\tIt does! I do it to keep people off my ass. They really back\n\taway when they see canon fire rolling out the back of a Harley.", "Anyone have any opinions on fairly recent model Alfa Spiders ( 86-> ) \n\nReliablilty for what their class ( I'm not talking Alfa vs. Toyota corrola\nwhich is more relaible ) \n\nAs far as I can discern, in recent years, there are 3 levels with all\nbasically the same mechanical aspects.\n\nPlease email any responses \n", "Any lock including the Kyptonite utypes are EASY to break into if the person has\nthe proper supplies and/or motivation. 3 minutes and your bike is gone!\nI would be glad to explain but I dont want to contribute to any unlawful\nactivities. Especially since I have a bike that I would hate to see ripped off\nby such a trival tactic. WARNING NO lock alone is a safe deterent against theft,\nthe thief doesnt need to be a locksmith or a lock-picker to walk away with your\nproperty! I personally think motion alarms in combination to a lock\nof this type is the way to go if in fact you are that concerned.", "\n[well, actually, he didn't, but we'll pretend the real author of this\nquery has his name tacked in here....:-)]\n\n\n\nwhile it's being mentioned, i personally prefer the moonroof/sunroof/t-top/\ntarga thing as well. I simply don't like cloth tops, nor the extra insurance,\nnor the S**** color matching alot of companies do. If i chose a convertible,\nit'd be:\n\na) Mazda RX7 II. I just like the way they look. It'd have to be in black,\nwith color matched black top(they look good!)\n\nb) VW cabriolet. They do a suberb job of matching colors too. Also, last year\nfor them! {***COLLECTOR'S ITEM****}\n\nc) mustang GT droptop...they look ok too.\n\ni know this doesn't help, but i thought i'd do it anyway...:-)\n\ngood luck to your wife.(and you :-)", "Hello all,\n\nOn my bike I have hazard lights (both front and back turn signals\nflash). Since I live in NJ and commute to NYC there are a number of\ntolls one must pay on route. Just before arriving at a toll booth I\nswitch the hazards on. I do thisto warn other motorists that I will\nbe taking longer than the 2 1/2 seconds to make the transaction.\nTaking gloves off, getting money out of coin changer/pocket, making\ntransaction, putting gloves back on takes a little more time than the\naverage cager takes to make the same transaction of paying the toll.\nI also notice that when I do this cagers tend to get the message and\nusually go to another booth.\n\nMy question, is this a good/bad thing to do?\n\nAny others tend to do the same?\n\nJust curious", "Reading from a Amoco Performance Products data sheet, their\nERL-1906 resin with T40 carbon fiber reinforcement has a compressive\nstrength of 280,000 psi. It has a density of 0.058 lb/cu in,\ntherefore the theoretical height for a constant section column\nthat can just support itself is 4.8 million inches, or 400,000 ft,\nor 75 Statute miles.\n\nNow, a real structure will have horizontal bracing (either a truss\ntype, or guy wires, or both) and will be used below the crush strength.\nLet us assume that we will operate at 40% of the theoretical \nstrength. This gives a working height of 30 miles for a constant\nsection column. \n\nA constant section column is not the limit on how high you can\nbuild something if you allow a tapering of the cross section\nas you go up. For example, let us say you have a 280,000 pound\nload to support at the top of the tower (for simplicity in\ncalculation). This requires 2.5 square inches of column cross\nsectional area to support the weight. The mile of structure\nbelow the payload will itself weigh 9,200 lb, so at 1 mile \nbelow the payload, the total load is now 289,200 lb, a 3.3% increase.\n\nThe next mile of structure must be 3.3% thicker in cross section\nto support the top mile of tower plus the payload. Each mile\nof structure must increase in area by the same ratio all the way\nto the bottom. We can see from this that there is no theoretical\nlimit on area, although there will be practical limits based\non how much composites we can afford to by at $40/lb, and how\nmuch load you need to support on the ground (for which you need\na foundation that the bedrock can support.\n\nLet us arbitrarily choose $1 billion as the limit in costruction\ncost. With this we can afford perhaps 10,000,000 lb of composites,\nassuming our finished structure costs $100/lb. The $40/lb figure\nis just for materials cost. Then we have a tower/payload mass\nratio of 35.7:1. At a 3.3% mass ratio per mile, the tower\nheight becomes 111 miles. This is clearly above the significant\natmosphere. A rocket launched from the top of the tower will still\nhave to provide orbital velocity, but atmospheric drag and g-losses\nwill be almost eliminated. G-losses are the component of\nrocket thrust in the vertical direction to counter gravity,\nbut which do not contribute to horizontal orbital velocity. Thus\nthey represent wasted thrust. Together with drag, rockets starting\nfrom the ground have a 15% velocity penalty to contend with.\n\nThis analysis is simplified, in that it does not consider wind\nloads. These will require more structural support over the first\n15 miles of height. Above that, the air pressure drops to a low\nenough value for it not to be a big factor.\n\nDani Eder\n", "With the popularity of minivans, the market room for station wagons is \nsqueezed out. They are not as comfortable as sedan, and don't carry as \nmuch as the minivans. \n\nThis is not to say nobody wants the wagon anymore. But the demand is certainly\nhampered by the minivan, and may not be economical to build a product for.\n\nJason Chen", "\nIf the tire has a leak you should fix it. \n\n\nDoesn't work too well if the engine is hot, its more accurate to check the\noil when the engine is cool, i.e. not when you are at a gas station.", "\nCountersteering is a method for *leaning* the bike. Another method is\nleaning. Once leaned, the bike turns all by itself.\n", "[...]\n[...]\n\n\nOh, lord. This is where I came in.\n\nObcountersteer: For some reason, I've discovered that pulling on the\nwrong side of the handlebars (rather than pushing on the other wrong\nside, if you get my meaning) provides a feeling of greater control. For\nexample, rather than pushing on the right side to lean right to turn \nright (Hi, Lonny!), pulling on the left side at least until I get leaned\nover to the right feels more secure and less counter-intuitive. Maybe\nI need psychological help.\n\nObcountersteer v2.0:Anyone else find it ironic that in the weekend-and-a-\nnight MSF class, they don't mention countersteering until after the\nfirst day of riding?\n\n\n\n-----\nTommy McGuire, who's going to hit his head on door frames the rest of\n the evening, leaning into those tight turns....\nmcguire@cs.utexas.edu\nmcguire@austin.ibm.com", "\nI use the ashtray to keep change and other items in. I converted the \ncigarette lighter into a volume control knob for my in trunk subwoofer!\n\n\n\n . \n / \nLarry __/ _______/_ \nkeys@csmes.ncsl.nist.gov / \\ \n _____ __ _____ \\------- ===\n ----------- / ____/ / / /__ __/ \\\n / ___ / / ___ / / / / ____ |\n | / \\/ /__ / | / /__ __/ /__ / \\ / \n /___ \\_______/ /_____/ /______/ ====OO\n \\ / \\ / \n - 1990 2.0 16v -\n\n\n ---------------- FAHRVERGNUGEN FOREVER! -------------------- \n The fact that I need to explain it to you indicates\n that you probably wouldn't understand anyway!", "I am looking for advice on buying a susuki GS1100E. does anyone out there\nknow about any inherent flaws the bike may have or problems i should look\nfor?\nwhat about insurance rates (is this bike blacklisted)?\nalso, as a person who has never ridden a motorcycle yet is buying a 1100\nto start off with.... am I crazy? I have been told by some people to start out\nsmall.... and by others that i am lage enough to handle an 1100 right off from\nthe start (6'4\" 210 pounds) because some others might be a tad bit small.\n\nOh yeah, one more question. Anybody in the chicago area know of any good\ninstruction schools or programs where i could get aquanted before i just go\nbuy one and kill myself getting it home.\n\nthanks,\n brian", "\nOr have different classes of competetors.. and made the total purse $6billion\nor $7billion (depending on how many different classes there are, as in auto\nracing/motocycle racing and such)..", "\n How about a Geeky temporary tatoo? I mean, why should the \n RUBs be exempt from a little razzing.", "When do the new M.benz \"C\" class cars come out?\nThe new nomenclature that MB has adopted will it only apply to the \"c\"\nclass cars or will it also apply to the current \"s\" class cars.\nDoes any one know what will replace the current 300 class since the \"c\"\nclass will be smaller and more in line with the current 190. \nAnother question, Is BMW realising a new body style on the current 7\nseries and 5 series. They seem to be a bit dated to me.\n", "Several years ago, while driving a cage, a dog darted out at a quiet\nintersection right in front of me but there was enough distance\nbetween us so I didn't have to slow down. However, a 2nd dog\nsuddenly appeared and collided with my right front bumper and\nthe force of the impact was enough to kill that Scottish Terrier.\n\nApparently, it was following the 1st dog. Henceforth, if a dog\ndecides to cross the street, keep an eye out for a 2nd dog as\nmany dogs like to travel in pairs or packs. \n\nI've yet to experience a dog chasing me on my black GL1200I which\nhas a pretty loud OEM horn (not as good as Fiamms, but good enuff)\nbut the bike is large and heavy enough to run right over one of\nthe smaller nippers while the larger ones would have trouble\ngetting my leg between the saddlebags and engine guards. I'd\ndef feel more vulnerable on my '68 Trump as that'd be easier\nleg chewing target for those mongrels.\n\nIf there's a persistent dog running after bikers despite\ncomplaints to the owner I wouldn't be adverse to running\nover it with my truck as a dogs life isn't worth much IMHO\ncompared to a child riding a bike who gets knocked to the\nground by said dog and dies from a head injury. \n\nAny dog in the neighborhood that's vicious or a public menace\nrunning about unleashed is fair game as road kill candidate.", "\nThe first few times I pillioned someone whose safety was a great concern to\nme (as opposed to brothers, etc.), I almost got us both killed on several\noccasions.\n\nI was surprised to discover that it is much safer to just drive than to\ndistract yourself by trying to be unusually cautious and concerned. Abruptly\nadopting a novel set of thought patterns and riding strategies while piloting\na bike is just asking for trouble.\n\n\n\n-- ", "\n\nAlthough, others have in the past and will continue to disagree\ni think that it is worthwhile to get an alarm.\n\n\n\nI think that it is important to protect your trunk, engine bay, all\ndoors. I'd get flashing lights, LED's mounted on the drivers and\npassenger door and a relay to disable engine operation. Toss in \na glass break sensor, and shock sensor. Door lock and unlock,\ntwo remotes and panic feature are also nice to have.\n\nMost important is where you have the installation done! Some places\nmay cost a little more, but a poorly installed alarm (no matter how\nmuch it cost) will be a major burden.\n\n\n\nIMO, things like engine starters, voice alarms, window/sunroof open\nand close, and most other conveniences.\n\n\n . \n / \nLarry __/ _______/_ \nkeys@csmes.ncsl.nist.gov / \\ \n _____ __ _____ \\------- ===\n ----------- / ____/ / / /__ __/ \\\n / ___ / / ___ / / / / ____ |\n | / \\/ /__ / | / /__ __/ /__ / \\ / \n /___ \\_______/ /_____/ /______/ ====OO\n \\ / \\ / \n - 1990 2.0 16v -\n\n\n ---------------- FAHRVERGNUGEN FOREVER! -------------------- \n The fact that I need to explain it to you indicates\n that you probably wouldn't understand anyway!", "i of course car safety is important.. I for one used to think that these \nguys are going way OTT with their airtbags (sorry del button dont work) and \nside impact bars and crash zones and (the list goes on) just tpo make the \ncar heavbier (and all its penalties) ... bur recently I had a little accident (on\nmy bike) and not as bad as John's ..... but after the accident - it made me \nrealizer I should have worn a helmet (my mom always insistede I should... I was\nmore concerned about my hair style).....", "Hello,\n\tMy parents are selling a 1978 22 foot Searay. it is in excellent \ncondition and runs great. It has a mercruiser 198 inboard/outboard engine\n(it is actually a chevy 305). It is from the weekender class so it has a hard\ntop over the driver. \nhas:\n\tTable\n\tStove\n\tWater Tank\n\tSink\n\tSleeping for 6\n\tmuch more\nit is a good all around or fishing boat. If interested or for more info write tojmparkin@mtu.edu or call (313)681-4609\n\tThanks,\n\t\tJeremy\n-- \n", "The subject says it all. My 1984 Chev S10 Pickup's left turn signal does\nnot stop after turning. What cause this to stop automaticaly?. Is this\na mechanical problem by the steering wheel?.", "\nBetter still, years ago they demonstrated a cold air system which only used\n\"air\". It was called a Rovax. The unit worked very well, the short coming\nwas the seal technology. Where is it today?", "\n\n\n$200 in Glassboro, New Jersey :(\n", "Thanx Craig.... in addition to Craigs coments - and to clear up any \nfurther confusion.... the 200SX (of USA) was reffered to as a Silvia Turbo\nin the UK.... performance figures of UK 200SX are:", "Well, it looks like I'm F*cked for insurance.\n\nI had a DWI in 91 and for the beemer, as a rec.\nvehicle, it'll cost me almost $1200 bucks to insure/year.\n\nNow what do I do?\n\n(I could probably just sell the bike and return my DoD number,...\n)\n", "\n I had a kz440 and thought it was the best $100 bike I've ever\n ridden. And mind you, I've ridden many bikes.\n\n\n You must be mistaken. No thread in this group has ever had a point.\n", "\n\nIt's normal for the BMW K bikes to use a little oil in the first few thousand \nmiles. I don't know why. I've had three new K bikes, and all three used a\nbit of oil when new - max maybe .4 quart in first 1000 miles; this soon quits\nand by the time I had 10,000 miles on them the oil consumption was about zero.\nI've been told that the harder you run the bike (within reason) the sooner\nit stops using any oil.\n", "Having recently purchased a 93 Probe with clear-coat paint, I \nwould like to give it a good wax job. What is the Best type of\nwax to use for this type of finish? Is paste or liquid better?\nI would be waxing it by hand, and buffing it by hand, I guess\nusing cheesecloth to buff it (anything better you would suggest?).\n\nI've heard comments here before about things like Turtle Wax\nand Raindance not being very good, so I'm wondering what is\nrecommended for a quality finish.\n\nThanks in advance.\nBill\n", "The biggest hurdle for automatics (IMHO) is not shifting speed\nper se, but rather the transmission's reaction speed when you\ntry to force it to shift manually. \n\nThis was the biggest fault with the Subaru ECVT -- it took SOOOOOO\nLONNNNNNNNGGGGG for the tranny to find the right ratio.\n\nThe sales propaganda says the Saturn automatic is effectively an\nelectronically-shifted manual. Might this mean that Saturn has\nconquered the problem? (I dunno, only driven Saturn 5-speeds)\n\nINPUT, PLEASE!", "This is an outrage! I don't even own a dog.\n", "\nMoreover, if two riders are riding together at the same speed,\none might be riding well beyond his abilities and the other\nmay have a safety margin left.\n\n\nAllan, I know the circumstances of several of your falls.\nOn the ride when you fell while I was next behind you,\nyou made an error of judgement by riding too fast when\nyou knew the road was damp, and you reacted badly when\nyou were surprised by an oncoming car. That crash was\ndue to factors that were subject to your control.\n\nI won't deny that there's a combination of luck and skill\ninvolved for each of us, but it seems that you're blaming\nbad luck for more of your own pain than is warranted.\n--", "\n\n When the bugs are splatting on the side of my helmet instead\n of the faceshield. When semis are on their side in the downwind\n ditch. When I can't see the road for all the tumbleweeds rolling\n past. When the airborne sand/gravel is sandblasting my paint job.\n When all of the above is happening at once in the middle of Wonderful\n Wyldoming.\n\n Well, it *WAS* gusting to 87 mph.\n\n Cheers,\n VLJ", "\nGo bikeless. You drink and drive, you pay. No smiley.\n", "\n\n\n\nA dealer will make money off you in three ways, if you let him:\n\n\t1) New car markup over his cost (remember his hold-back),\n\t2) Arranging financing through the dealership, and\n\t3) Screwing you on the trade.\n\nKeep the deal with the dealer simple by eliminating 2 & 3. Buying a car at \n\"dealer's cost\" is meaningless if he makes $1000 on the trade and/or gets a \nkickback from the bank.\n\nBlue book (you need to know if you're talking average wholesale or average \nretail) is a good guide to value for a car. If you are selling it yourself, \ntry to get average retail, and chances are you'll have done ok.\n\nBe careful selling to acquaintances if you ever want them to become friends.", "\nDon't feed it so much.\nSeriously.\n\n\nSort of like that scene in \"10\", in the minister's study, when the\nsecretary lets one fly, and the startled dog runs from the room.\nThe minister explains, \"Every time Mrs. Soandso breaks wind, we beat the dog.\"\n\n", "Hi everyone,\n\nI'm getting a car in the near future. I've narrow it down to 300ZX and SC300.\nWhich might be a better choice?\n\nThanks for your opnion,\nDanny\n-- ", " ....\n\nSame thing to me. Everyday the same dog would chase my bicycle.\nThe owners thought it was cute. Even after I got the moto,\nthe stupid dog would do the same thing. Then one day, I was\ncoming home in the opposite lane...the fluff with teeth ran to\nget me and played momentum sharing with a 73 Dodge pick.\nThe owners tried to blame me for driving down street when I did.\nI lived in a wierd town.\n", "A few months ago, in one the the motorcycle mags, there was\nan article that mentioned reflector tape that was supposed to\nbe available thru BMW. The idea was that the tape would look\nblack in sunlight, and reflect in other colors at night to\nheadlights. It sounded like a nice way to add nighttime \nvisibility without turning the bike into a carnival attraction.\n\nI talked to the local BMW dealer about this. I was told that the \nonly thing he had heard about this kind of reflector, was it being \nused in a coming line of BMW clothing (rainsuits). He wasn't aware \nof anything regarding self applied tape.\n\nHas anyone come across this from BMW or any other source?\n\nThanks,\n", "xIf you put a locking lugnut on your tires, do you need to have your\nxtires rebalanced??\nx\nxJohn Mas\nx\nxE-Mail Address :: MAS@SKCLA.MONSANTO.COM\n\nSince the wheel/tire is balanced off the car i.e. the lugnuts are\nnot normally involved, how would they do that? I would think that\nsince the lugs are so close to the center of rotation any slight\ndifference in weight between a normal lugnut and a locking one would\nnot have any noticable effect on the balance. I could be wrong, it *is*\nFriday afternoon.\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\nMack Costello Code 65.1 (formerly 1720.1)\nDavid Taylor Model Basin, Carderock Division Hq. NSWC ___/-\\____\nBethesda, MD 20084-5000 Phone (301) 227-2431 (__________>|", "Hello,\n I am moving to Houston to go to Rice University for graduate school.\nI will be living on the corner of S. Mian and University Blvd. I was\nwondering what kind of liability rates to expect. Here is the relevent\ninfo.\n Sex: Male\n Age: 23\n Status: Single\n Commute: None, walking.\n Car: 1982 Ford Crown Victoria, 4 door\n\nIf anyone can check the above info, or is in a similar situation please\nE-MAIL me the rates they find out or pay. Thanks for your help in advance.", "\nIn defense of the drivers, who are in the right lane. Here in the states, people simply do not expect when they are driving to be overtaken at a speed differential of 50+mph. I don't think this is because they are stupid (of course, there are exceptions), they are just programmed because of the 55mph limit. Do you (in the states) when you look in the rear-view ALWAYS calculate future positions of cars based on a 50+ speed differential. \n\nDont get me wrong, I love to drive in the left lane fast but when I overtake\ncars who are on the right, I slow down a tad bit. If I were to rely on the judgement of the other car, to recognize the speed differential, I would be the stupid one. ", "\nIsn't that one of those self-evident things like, \"how do you decide that\nyou're out of gas\"?\n\nI have never experienced wind so severe it physically precluded operation\nof a motorcycle. It's more a matter of deciding whether the aggravation\nis more trouble than it's worth. This of course, depends entirely on your\nown particular circumstances and personal disposition.\n\n\n\n-- ", "\n\n{Stuff Deleted}\n\n\n\n\n{Stuff Deleted}\n\n\n{More Stuff Deleted}\n\n\t\n\tMy neighbor runs a Viper(R) distributorship and installs them on all\nSaturns sold in my area (Anne Arundel County, MD). He has an SC with the\nViper voice alarm installed. The alarm does everything, turn on the car, \nthe radio, the heater, roll down windows, unlock the doors... The alarm goes\noff more frequently on hot days when a person walks by. It gets sensitive up\nto about 5 feet in 85degree heat. It isn't as bad as convetional siren alarms,\nbecause it doesn't continue to wail, it just says \"Protected by Viper, please\nstand back!\" And shuts up... (mainly because the person walks away \nbefuddled!!!\")\n\n\t\t\t", "\n\nThis is kind of interesting. I always assumed that the 240SX was named\nbecause of the 2.4 liter engine which it uses. Likewise for the 200SX\nwhich uses a 2.0 liter engine. Isn't this true?\n", "\n\tIt is far from new. It's been around almost as long as dirt.\n\n\n\tI had one for one of my old bikes. Worked fine. I'm sure, being\nrigid and nonflexible, that the \"Cyclelok\" would yield instantly to the freeze\nand break routine.\n\n\tBut then, for $40, what do ya want?\n\nLater,", "\nOn the back might be tricky, but here in Boulder, there is a guy \nthat can always be seen with his Golden Retriever in the sidecar.\nOf course, the dog is always wearing WWII style goggles (no joke)\n", "\n\n\nOr the price tag of the RX7 vs. a Mustang? Part of the definition of\na Mustang is that it should be affordable by the masses. Of course\nFord knows youre argument, THEY OWN A BIG PIECE OF MAZDA! Take a good\nlook at a Mach III, now an RX7, hhhmmmmm...\n\n\nThat is a tragedy, but I don't think new Camaros or the new Mustangs will.\n\n-Steve", "I've seen several references to split- or separate-beam radars, which I\nclaimed didn't exist. Gotta eat some crow here - I wasn't aware of them.\nAll I really knew was that it can be done with one beam.\n\nI believe the rest of what I said is accurate, though.", "\nThere's an article in Motorcycling a couple of months back specifically on \nwomen's attire for serious and not-so-serious riding. They do mention who \nmakes stuff specific for women's dimensions, and what also works OK enough as \nwell. Bates will make custom jackets and leathers for a reasonable charge.\n-- ", "\n\n\n\n\n\tAre 180 degree V-6 \"Flat-Six\" engines???", "Does anyone know how to reset the service indicator of a BMW after changing\nthe oil yourself?\n\nAlso, I have about 3,000 miles on my 525i and so far only one of the five\nyellow service indicators went out. That means I don't need oil service until\nit reach approximatly 15,000 miles which doesn't make sense to me. Any idea?\n\nPS of cause I did my first oil change at 1,200 miles \n", "\nMy wife rarely carries a purse, so all of her crap ends up in my pockets!\n\n", "\n\nDiesels fall into the same emissions mythology as alcohol fuels. The main reason\nthey are considered \"cleaner\" is because they are better at the emissions we\nactually measure and regulate. But they also contribute additional emissions\nwhich have long been determined to be as harmful, but no suitable control or\nlimits have been defined. \n\nCurrent evidence is pointing to most visible smog actually being diesel emissions\nand suspended particles and less of a photo-chemical reaction. Diesel particulates\nare now becoming a major concern in decreased lung capacity. And alcohols emit\nsignifcantly more aldehydes (a known carcinigen) than gasoline. The evidence\nis mounting that while we have been beating the gasoline engine to death, we may\nhave been ignoring the effects of the alternatives.\n\nAnd anyone who thinks diesels are so great, should go and spend a few hours in\nrush hour traffic in some cities in Europe. There the stench of the diesels is\nawful and it can even burn the eyes. \n\nDiesels being clean is only relative to our current standards. ", "\nI think VW got caught out on the airbag thing. It's only been in the last\nyear or two that airbags have become a significant selling feature.\nVW assumed that automatic belts would satisfy govt. requirements for\npassive restraint, but didn't guess that the 'merican consumer would\nactually make buy decisions based on the presence of an airbag.\n\nVW is really hurting right now in the US market. Check out the\narticle in last week's Autoweek about the crisis at VW. Golfs and\nJettas will be coming from the plant in Mexico, but they don't have\nthe quality at that facility. As per normal VW practice, the US\nlaunch of the Jetta III is delayed again and again, until a good chunk\nof the useful life of the design is spent.\n\nI think that Passats come from Germany, so there is not the same\nquality and availability issue. It's a nice car with a nice engine.\nWhether VW will be a player in the US market in two year's time is a\ndifferent question...", "\nFunny . . . I and most of the detector-owning friends I have, are \ngenerally able to *REMEMBER* such things as nearby microwave towers and \nradar detectors going off in EXACTLY the same spon EVERY DAY . . ..\n\nI know on I-64 at the Grayson, KY exit, there's a store just off the side \nof the road (think it's a Liquor store . . .) with what must be a security \nsystem that would make most federal prisons proud. It's the only thing \nI've ever driven by (besides a cop) that puts my Whistler in \"Oh my God \nhe's Right Behind You!!!!\" mode . . .. I simply ignore the detector and \nuse my eyes when I drive by that store . . . 40 seconds later, all's quiet \non the front and no problem.\n\n\n:-) :-)", "My wife and I looked at, and drove one last fall. This was a 1992 model.\nIt was WAYYYYYYYYY underpowered. I could not imagine driving it in the\nmountains here in Colorado at anything approaching highway speeds. I\nhave read that the new 1993 models have a newer, improved hp engine. \n\nI'm quite serious that I laughed in the salesman face when he said \"once\nit's broken in it will feel more powerful\". I had been used to driving a\nJeep 4.0L 190hp engine. I believe the 92's Land Cruisers (Land Yachts)\nwere 3.0L, the sames as the 4Runner, which is also underpowered (in my\nown personal opinion). \n\nThey are big cars, very roomy, but nothing spectacular.\n", "I had the exactly same problem with my '70 Lesabre. It was also from Cal. What I did was go to the local junkyard and pick up a diaphragm from a '68 Lesabre with the same heater set up. It worked for me, but a little bit slow to change from vents to defogger. Better than nothing!\n", "\nOil Pressure, Oil Temperature\nCoolant Temperature\nManifold Vacuum\nAmmeter, Voltmeter\n\nFuel Pressure [maybe] (Problematic, since you either need an electronic\nsensor/gauge pair or you have to mount the damn thing outside the car)\n\nIn addition, it'd be nice to have a big red idiot light 'Check Guages'\nconnected to Oil pressure, Oil Temp, Coolant Temp, Ammeter &\nVoltmeter. With heaps of guages, it's hard to look at them all all\nthe time. In the case of oil pressure, for example, you want to know\nright away if your oil pump goes bad, unlike coolant temperature, a\nminute or two of 0 oil pressure would be A Very Bad Thing(tm).\n\nAdam", "1990 Mazda MX-6\n\t5-spd\n\ta/c\n\tam/fm cassette\n\tcruise\n\ttilt steering\n\twhite w/ burgundy interior\n\texcellent condition\n\t73k miles\n\t$7500/best offer.\n\n -rhonda\n", "Does anyone know what kind of car Mad Max used in \"Road Warrior\"?\n\nThey called it \"the last of the V-8 Interceptors...\"\n\nI couldnt tell what it was, it was so chopped up.", "\nOK. It varies from state to state. It has to do with operating a vehicle\nwhile there is greater than a given percentage of alcohol in your\nbloodstream. Can we drop this now, and get back to asking Ed Green to\ngetabike?\n\n tom coradeschi <+> tcora@pica.army.mil", "Just to complete that thought, the cooling towers cool water that\ncirculates through heat exchangers that recondense the turbine\nexhaust back into feedwater for the heat exchangers that transfer\nenergy from the reactor's cooling circuit.\n\n\n |---------------| |------turbine, etc---| |---------|\n | > > > > .\nreactor < < < > .\n | > > > > C. T.\n |---------------| |--------------------| |----------\n\nThe reactor has a closed loop circuit to prevent radioactive\ncontamination of the the turbine feedwater.\n\nThe cooling tower is a separate circuit to avoide contamination of\nthe turbine feedwater with atmospheric contamininats, etc.\nPurifying boiler feedwater is important business at both fossil\nfired and nuclear generation facilities.\n\n", "Water gradually builds up in the trunk of my friend's 89 Ford Probe. Every\nonce in a while we would have to remove the spare and scoop out the water\nunder the plywood/carpet cover on the trunk. I would guess this usually happens\nafter a good thunder storm. A few Qs:\n\n1) Is this a common problem?\n2) Where are the drain holes located for the hatch?\n\nThanks for any info.\nTom\n", "\n\nThe CR purchase would be the Ford Probe GT.\n\njohn\n\n", "\nIt depends on your priorities. A lot of people put higher priorities\non gas mileage and cost than on safety, buying \"unsafe\" econoboxes\ninstead of Volvos. I personally take a middle ground -- the only\nthing I really look for is a three-point seatbelt and 5+mph bumpers.\nI figure that 30mph collisions into brick walls aren't common enough\nfor me to spend that much extra money for protection, but there are\nlots of low-speed collisions that do worry me.", "\n\nSeveral years ago GM was having trouble with the rings sticking on the\n5.7 diesel. They traced a cause to the use of 10W-40 oil. They would\nnot honor warranty work if 10W-40 was used (if my memory serves me).\n5-30, 10-30 or 20 50 was OK'd though.", "A local dealer is advertising \"No negotiation necessary!\"\nMake you wonder...\n", "\nOnly if you have a weeny insurance company. Unless it's\nsome stupid PA law. I know that if some jerk hits me while \nI'm in a parking lot, if my insruance company doesn't sue\nhis (or his doesn't immediately say, 'Yes, it's his fault')\nI'll sure him myself and tell my insurance company to go to\nhell if they raise my rates.\n\n\n", "------------\n\nShaft: Bamboozle, beat, beguile, burn (or flame), deceive, hoax,\n hoodwink.\n\nDrive: Campaign, crusade, push.\n\nSo, 'shaft drive' may be a campaign to decieve or a crusade of beguile,\nefforts where are true to the spirit of this list.\n\nWheel: revolution, swing\n\nCrusaders of beguile are innefective in revolutions and they cannot\nswing, either, therefore shaft drives cannot do wheelies.", "Makes sense to me, after all when steel is manufactured and stored they\nput oil on it so it won't rust. Logicaly, when you store your bike, you\nmust strip the paint and put oil on the metal to prevent rus\n", ": \tDoes anybody out there know how the hand held breathalyzer used\n: by our police works? I would like to hear about this and the more\n: general problem of detecting smells by machine.\n: \n: Thanks, William.\n: \n: williamb@ee.ubc.ca\n: \n\nFrom what I have read about these little gadgets, it works on\na electrochemical galvanic principle. The sensing unit has a\nchemical matrix which produces an electrical voltage proportional\nto the amount of chemical compound it is designed for ... in this case\nI believe it is the Hydroxyl group??? \n\nI have also heard - not tested :-) - since common gasoline is also\na member of this Hydroxyl group, it will also cause a failing breathalizer\nfailure! Next time you get stopped for DUI, say you just siphoned gas from\nyour neighbors car (you know..... the Oklahoma credit card) and chances\nare you won't get a DUI ticket!!!!\n\n\n \nJerry Long", "--\n\nThanks to all of you who gave advice on the CB900 Custom. \n\nAs recommended, I had the bike compression tested. Compression was\na little low, but very even across the four cylinders (+/- 5 psi). They\nsaid that it was tested a little cold, so that would explain the low \nnumbers (around 90). Does this sound right? Otherwise, the bike looked\ngreat. No signs of road rash, and no rust. This bike looks great! \nIt is now in the shop getting tuned and new tires. \nI am opting for the Metzler ME55 and ME33 tires (thanks to those \nwho posted this other thread). This bike is _BIG_ compared to my other bikes. \n( Sure is alot harder to load on a trailer than the KDX200 was. ) I should\nbe road legal tomorrow. I am ignoring the afforementioned concerns about \nthe transmission and taking my chances.\n\nBeing a reletively new reader, I am quite impressed with all the usefull\ninfo available on this newsgroup. I would ask how to get my own DoD number,\nbut I'll probably be too busy riding ;-).\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------", "\nSure don't know what bike was being worked on but it sure wasn't a\nVirago. I've owned both the 750 and 1100 and you can do the filter\nchange in about 5 mins and nothing has to be removed. Obviously the\n\"new\" bike was modified as the stock machine is simple to work on.\n Watching for imitators!!", "I have both an '84 and an '86 Camry, each with manual 5-speed transmissions.\nThe '84 has about 105,000 miles on it and the '86 about 83,000 miles. ABout\na year ago I found that the master cylinder on the clutch in the '84 was \nleaking fluid around the piston seal, leading to air in the system and fluid\nback into the passenger compartment of the car. I pulled the plunger and\ngot a rebuild kit (new plunger, seal, etc.) and thought I had the problem\nlicked. Much to my surprise, the same problem developed several months\nlater! This time I looked carefully at the master cylinder to make sure\nthere were no scratches, burrs, or other obvious causes of the problem. I\ndidn't find any. Ever since I have been periodically feeding the clutch\nhydraulins additional fluid and bleeding air from the system. I knew I\nwould be selling the car and didn't want to go all the way to solving the\nproblem.\n\nI should add that the clutch is original, and that I've had to adjust the\npedal to allow maximum extension of the piston into the master cylinder in\norder to actuate the clutch.\n\nMy hypothesis is that this means that when fully depressing the clutch pedal,\nthe angle of the piston rod (attached to the pedal) is off the axix of the\ncylinder, thus cocking the piston and seal and perhaps deforming it.\n\nWhat do you think of that as an explanation? Can you suggest a possible fix\nshort of replacing the master cylinder and getting a new clutch put in?\n\nNow the '86: same problem, except that the above diagnosis doesn't explain\nwhy all of the fluid leaked out (by way of the master cylinder, into the\npassenger compartment) while I was on vacation for 10 days, during which\nthe clutch pedal was not depressed or otherwise caused to distort. What\ncan you suggest here?\n\nMany thanks. Let's hope I don't end up going to Click and Clack on this...", "l\n\n\ndiamond star cars (Talon/Eclipse/Laser) put out 190 hp in the turbo models,\nand 195 hp in the AWD turbo models, These cars also have handling to match\nthe muscle, and are civil in regular driving conditions, rather than having a\nharsh, stiff ride....The AWD Turbo is clearly the better choice of the two\n(because of all that torque steer on the front drive model), but you may have\nto go with a leftover or \"slightly\" used model for that price range....tough\ndecision...\n\n Rob Fusi\n rwf2@lehigh.edu\n", ": > \"hose\" h-o-s-e\n\n: \tDork. d-o-r-k.\n\n\nOh, really? \nHere's what you posted earlier in another thread. Before you thrash\nothers for making simple mistakes or flaunt your wonderful \"vi skill\",\nthink about how you make them feel as well as how you look (you spelled\nit right). ;-}\nFor years you have assaulted others with offensive language, etc. From\nthe content of many of your posts, you appear to have a lot of useful\ninformation to share with people, but it gets overshadowed when you come\nacross as an abusive smart-ass. \n\n\n: In article marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Z\n: >\n: > Remember roads in America are NOT designed for speeds above 80\nmeaning they\n: >would be safe at 55-65. Roads like the Autobahn are smoother,\nstraiter,\n: >wider and slightly banked.\n\n: Well, that's news. Before 1975 the speed limit on Texas\nhighways\n: was 75. The speed limit on the New Jersey Turnpike (I-95) was 70.\nThere\n: were no speed limits in Nevada or Montana.\n\n: >east becoming hidden by trees after about 1,000 ft and continued to\nthe\n: >left strait north. I wanted to turn north, checked the south lane,\nrolled", "From article , by eabu288@orion.oac.uci.edu (Alvin):\n\n--Could be. Isn't the 2.5 liter six supposed to be enlarged to 2.8 liters\n in the not-too-distant future?\n\n--Aamir Qazi\n\n-- ", "\n\nI would guess the high price of gas in Europe (compared to the US) has\nalways favoured 4-cylinder manuals.\n\nsmall engines with autos are a real bore...\n\nBut why not turn the question around, why are automatics so common in\nthe US?\n\nMy guess is that when they tried to couple manuals to the torque-rich\nV8's in the sixties the clutches turned out as real killers you had to \nuse both feet to depress, and that this has just lived on.\n\nAnd also, an automatic with a V8 engine can be real fun to drive.\n\nMarkus\n\n\n__________________________________________________________________________\n _ _ _ ____ _________ \n / | / | / | / / / / / / / \n / | / | /__| /___/ /--| / / /___ '75 Chevy Camaro 350/TH350\n/ |/ | / | / | / | /___/ ____/ '87 Peugout 205 1.4/4-speed", "\nAny advice on HOW to buy a Land Cruiser? My local Toyota dealer says they\nget two a year, and if I want one I can just get on the waiting list.\nForget about a test drive or even kicking the tires.\nAnd if they are that rare, I doubt there is much of a parts inventory on\nhand.\n\n\n", "\n\tSorry to be contradictory, but... I've had my Nighthawk at 45 degress\nwith the horizon and I wasn't banked over in a turn... \n\tThe hard part is getting the front in off the ground. I rev to about \n7,000 at DROP the clutch. Even harder is keeping it from coming up to far--\nI use the back brake as well as the throttle. Once its up, it'll wheelie just\nlike any other bike. ", "Knight Riders has got to be one of the silliest\nmovies I've ever seen.\n", "Enough, already. Let's take this discussion to some other newsgroup\nthat's more appropriate. Most of us are tired of it and would like to \nget back to old cars, IMHO.", "I have a 1986 Acura Integra 5 speed with 95,000 miles on it. It is positively\nthe worst car I have ever owned. I had an 83 Prelude that had 160k miles on\nit when I sold it, and it was still going strong . This is with religious\nattention to maintenance such as oil changes etc. Both cars were driven in\nexactly the same manner..\n\n 1. It has gone through two clutches (which are underrated.)\n 2. 3 sets of tires (really eats tires in the front even with careful align)\n 3. All struts started leaking about 25-30k miles\n 4. Windshield wiper motor burned up (service note on this one)\n 5. Seek stop working on radio about 20k miles\n 6. Two timing belts.\n 7. Constant error signals from computer.\n\n 8. And finally. A rod bearing went out on the No. 1 piston seriously damaging\n the crankshaft, contaminating the engine etc. When the overhaul was done\n last week it required new crankshaft, one new cam shaft (has two) because\n the camshaft shattered when they tried to mill it. The camshaft took 4\n weeks to get because it is on national back order. \n\n Everything on the engine is unique to the 1986 year. They went to a new\n design in 87. Parts are very expensive.", "\nMakes sense, since the new Mercedes Benz engines go from 2.2L-4 to a 2.8L-6.\nNothing in between. BTW, I beleive the numbers on those MB engines are\n156 and 225 hp respectively. The one-upmanship in hp might induce BMW\nto create a larger six. Also, the 2.6 190E has lagged behind the 3-er\n2.5 for some time wrt hp. I am sure the Bavarians wouldn't want to be\n\"shown-up\" by the Schwabians.\n\nPS- those MB engines haven't been released over here yet.", "\n\n\n\tWe're talking about insurance agents from Bumf**k Illinois (ST.FARM is\nHQ'ed in Bloomington). What the hell do they know about cars... Both are\nsports cars... :-)\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n", "Hello Netters,\n\nI would like to find out information about a device that is used on vans and\ntrucks. This device is a step that hooks onto the tire and folds up for\nstorage. I've seen this device on TNN's Shady Tree Mechanic. I would like to\nknow if it is a good product and I would also like the price and address\nof where I can purchase this product.\n\nThanks,", "Greetings automobile enthusiasts. Can anyone tell me if there is\na mail order company that sells BMW parts discounted... cheaper than\nthe dealerships.\n\nSorry if it's a FAQ. email replies very much appreciated.\n\nThanks,", "\nWith the FJ's large, flat gas tank, I'd imagine that almost anything\nwould work. Personally, I'm quite happy with my Eclipse standard tank\nbag.", "\n My rule of thumb is \"Don't give rides to people that wear\na bigger helmet than you\", unless your taste runs that way,\nor they are family.friends.\nGee, reminds me of a *dancer* in Hull, just over the river \nfrom Ottowa, that I saw a few years ago, for her I would a\nbought a bigger helmet (or even her own bike) or anything \nelse she wanted ;->", "Another alternative is to cover the adhesive with another piece of\nduct tape then remove the tape. \n\nIf it still doesn't work, try WD-40.\nBQN\n", "I seem to recall that there was an article in Radio Electronics about this\nsubject. In fact I have a copy of the article in front of me, but I can't\nfind anywhere in the article a refrence as to what month it was in. The system\nthey describe uses an automobile ignition coil for the high voltage. The \narticle even includes some information on what kind of film to use and where \nto get it. \n\nHope this helps.", "Dave Edmondson, on the Wed, 21 Apr 1993 12:05:41 GMT wibbled:\n: : kevinh, on the Tue, 20 Apr 1993 13:23:01 GMT wibbled:\n\n: Jonathan Quist bemoaned:\n\n: : : |> Yes, it's a minor blasphemy that U.S. companies would ?? on the likes \n: of A.M.,\n: : : |> Jaguar, or (sob) Lotus. It's outright sacrilege for RR to have \n: non-British\n: : : |> ownership. It's a fundamental thing\n\n: Lotus looks set for a management buyout. GM weren't happy that the Elan was \n: late and too pricey. If they can write off the Elan development costs the may \n: be able to sell them for a sensible price.\n\n\n: : : I think there is a legal clause in the RR name, regardless of who owns it\n: : : it must be a British company/owner - i.e. BA can sell the company but not\n: : : the name.\n\n: : : kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch\n\n: : I don't believe that BA have anything to do with RR. It's a seperate\n: : company from the RR Aero-Engine company. \n\n: It's Vickers who own Rolls Royce cars. \n\n: And yes Kevin it is posts, Morgan use a sliding pillar front suspension.\n\n: Ob Bike (at long bleeding last): When will that Pettefar bloke get a mail \n: address so we can bung him on the Ogri list?\n\n: dave\n: --\n: David Edmondson davide@dcs.qmw.ac.uk\n: Queen Mary & Westfield College DoD#0777 Guzzi Le Mans 1000\n: \"This means the end of the horse-drawn Zeppelin.\"\n\n\nWhat, you mean like the one in my bleedin' signature?!\n\nHELLO!\n\n--\n\nNick (the Connected Biker) DoD 1069 Concise Oxford Mail Address\n\nM'Lud.", "\n\nIt isn't that bad. At least the Bugatti EB110 has compound curves compared\nto the slab sides on the Consulier. And the Bugatti has a quad turbo V-12\n(thing of it as 4 three cylinder turbo engines tied together). Also Ettore\nBugatti's nephew is on the board of directors and had a hand in the\ndevelopment. So that's about as much Bugatti as you are likely to get in\ntoday's world. Much like Enzo Ferrari's illegitamate son being allowed to\ntake over part of Ferrari as well... \n\n\nThat's funny. I have motorcylclist friends who say the same about `cages'. \n:-)\n\nMost GP 500cc motorcycles are V-4s, and the VF line of Hondas were all V-4s\n(from the VF-400F through the VF-1000F, including the RC30 race bike and\nthe present VFR-750F). It should be noted that Lancia built a V-4 in\nrecent history in the Fulvia HF, a very pretty Italian coupe. \n", "I moved to Sweden and I have to take all the tests again (written and\nroad) even though I had a valid US license for 12 some years...\nOf course I became a resident, and could drive on my US license until\nI became resident. Don't know about Italy, it's different in the EEC.\n\n", "************* 1989 HONDA ACCORD LX ***************\n\nLight Brown, Four Door Power Windows, Power Brakes\nPower Locks, Power Steering, Power Antenna\nAM/FM Cassette, Totally Cloth Interior. VERY NICE!\n70,000 miles but excellent condition!!!!!!!!!!!!!!\nMust Sell, quit my job to go back to school.\nBlue book $9,200 in IDAHO\nAsking only $8,000 OBO\nemail bartmich@cwis.isu.edu Phone 208-233-8039\nPocatello, Idaho\n", "\nSuch as? Drunk drivers get back on the road in no time, to kill again. Seems \nthe driver's license process does not work for this.\n\n\nBecause you wanted one while you were underage.\n\n\nOnly on public roads.\n\n\nOnly if it is to be driven on public roads, other than between segments of my \nproperty.\n\n\nOnly on public roads.\n\n\nPerhaps, if it gave them permission to shoot in public roads and parks. :-)\n\n\nJim\n\n--\njmd@handheld.com", "\n\nall of my HO's disagree with your HO's. I LOVED Dallas rush hour in my stick..\ndetested it in the auto(like i did any other time in the auto...). Of course,\nDalls rush hours are nothing, from what i hear..if i lived in LA, i might\nbe of a different persuasion. And, just for the record, rarely do you shift\ngears when merging into traffic..that is what 5 speeds are good for..4th is\ngood up through around 80-90, most of the time, so you can just wind it out..\nit's not going to hurt anything, and keeps it in the powerband anyway..\nonly shift into top gear when you are exceeding redline in 4th(fairly rare,\nunless you drive a ferrari or some such, i'd bet) or when you hit cruising \nspeed where you feel comfortable(or when my mother is sitting in the \npassanger seat complaining about how you wind her \"poor little engine\" way\ntoo hi :-)\nJust my HO's..", "I'm looking for a 1990-91 Kawasaki ZX-6 engine. Just the engine,\nno intake, exhaust, ignition, etc. Preferably in the central texas\narea, but we haven't had much luck around here so we'll take whatever we\ncan get. Please reply via mail or call (512) 471-5399 if you have one\n(or more... really need a spare).\n\nThanx\n", " \nYeah, I loved the vent windows on my 82 Escort (hell, the only thing I liked\nabout the car). One of the things I'd like to see brought back. Does\nanyone know if they're an option on the new Escorts?", "GM has always screwed the rest of the divisions in favor of the\nCorvette. The current platform is no exception. The \"detuned\" Camaro and\nFirebird is a load of crap to keep people from realizing that they can\nbuy one of these instead of a Corvette and save about $10,000.\n\nI like the idea of an Impala SS, but if they really wanted to impress\nme, they would throw in a big phat 454. Imagine the cops in their Taurus\npolice package 3.0 and 3.8 litres as they stare at your taillights...\n\nGeorge Howell", "\nonly when the torque converter is not locked up. there are autos out there\nwith converter lock up in 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears.\n\n\nrare.. so are 5 speed autos.. but very real.\n\n\ni think that automatics have advanced far more than manuals.\nespecially in shift intelligence. i say that a smart automatic is\nbetter than the majority of drivers in terms of being in the right\ngear at the right time, which to me is more important than torque\nconverter losses.\n\n\nwho says you can't have your cake and eat it too? a well designed\nshifter will easily facilitate manual, clutchless shifts. i am\nreferring to the much copied mercedes jagged gate. the only\ndepartment where you lose out is in the number of ratios available,\nand of course the converter losses..\n\nif ayrton senna can drive a racecar with fully automatic transmission,\nit can't be half bad.. :-)\n", ": \n: \n: I really don't know where to post this question so I figured that\n: this board would be most appropriate.\n: I was wondering about those massive concrete cylinders that\n: are ever present at nuclear poer sites. They look like cylinders\n: that have been pinched in the middle. Does anybody know what the\n: actual purpose of those things are?. I hear that they're called\n: 'Cooling Towers' but what the heck do they cool?\n: I hope someone can help \n:-----------------------\nDuring the nuclear fission reaction the uranium fuel can get hot enough\nto melt. When this happens the liquid uranium is pumped to the cooling\ntower where it is sprayed into the air. Contact with the cool outside air\nwill condense the mist and it will fall back to the cooling tower floor.\nThere it is collected by a cleaning crew using shop vacs and is then\nreformed into pellets for reactor use the next day.\n\nCooling towers are a lot taller than they really need to be. Power companies\nare forced to make them that tall by some enviromental law that requires the\nraw uranium emisions to be held to under 1%. This law is now under attack\nby lawyers arguing that the 1% should be measured at the edge of the property\nrather than the edge of the cooling tower. Eliminating this law will save\npower companies thousands of dollars in concrete costs for new nukes.", ": \n: McGuire's makes a plastic scratch/removing compound and a plastic\n: polishing compound which really work great as well.\n\nA useful tip.\n\nHow about someone letting me know MOTORCYCLE DETAILING TIP #19 ?\n\nThe far side of my instrument panel was scuffed when the previous owner\ndumped the bike. Same is true for one of the turn signals.\n\nBoth of the scuffed areas are black plastic.\n\nI recall reading somewhere, that there was some plastic compound you could coat\nthe scuffed areas with, then rub it down, ending with a nice smooth shiny \nfinish ?\n\nAnyone any ideas.\n\nthanks\n\ntony", "\nRolls-Royce owned by a non-British firm?\n\nYe Gods, that would be the end of civilization as we know it.", "\n\n\n\nWell, an LT1 Blazer wouldn't come close to a GMC Typhoon in speed, I think its\ntoo heavy. As it is right now, the normal 210HP 5.7 engine has plenty of \npower for a full size Blazer. Of course, I'm not saying GM shouldn't put the\nLT1 in it :). It seems like they have a real winner with that engine. Why\nspend so much more money into getting a 32 valve DOHC V8 when you can take \nan LT1? It even seems to get pretty good gas MPG (for a 5.7, that is.)\n\n\n[talking about Impala SS]\n\nYeah, it's a flat black, lowered 4 door Caprice riding on 17\" aluminum rims and\nEagle GS-C tires. The rest of the car is basically a Caprice LTZ (read: \nplush police package) with 300 horsepower.\n\nI heard that Chevy is resurrecting the Monte Carlo but that's going to get \ntheir 3.4 DOHC V6 and not the LT1.\n\n--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\nAndrew Krenz -- uznerk@mcl.ucsb.edu | krenz@engrhub.ucsb.edu ", "\n\n\n\nYer welcome to ride with me and my friends any time. Just introduce your \nself at the earliest opportunity and say \"Mind if I rid with you guys?\"\n\n ----===== DoD #8177 = Technician(Dr. Speed) .NOT. Student =====----", "\n\nMay I tease out a sub-thread from this discussion?\n\nCan you all please tell me how to remove the stickers from new houses'\nappliances and outdoor lampposts? Especially the lamppost, right on\nthe glass. Isn't there something you can rub into stuck-on labels that\nwill release them from their death-grip on glass or other hard surfaces?\n\nMany thanks for any help. \n\n John", "F O R S A L E\n\t\t\t================\n\n\t\tTriumph Spitfire '76, 1500\n - Convertible\n\t - 54,000k original miles\n\t\t- Burgandy Color\n\t\t- Wooden Dashboard\n - No rust\n\t\t- Garage kept\n\t\t- Heater\n\t\t- Chrome bumpers(not the black plastic crap)\n\t\t- Brand new top\n\t\t- Asking $3,000 --negotiable\n\t\n\t* Mechanically the car is in a very good shape and it is running\n very-very strong(if you know what I mean)...:)\n\t* Plenty of catalogs and manuals are coming with the car \n\n\tIf you are interested in the car please reply to this message.\n\n\n\t\tI AM NOT INTERESTED OR WILLING TO SELL ANY PARTS.\n\t\tThe car is in a very good condition to strip it.\n", "\n\tNo, it is the stock setup. Someone really ought to put an end\n\tto the confusion regarding BMW's chain drive boxers. Didn't\n\tsomeone post the FAQ on this some time ago? In essence, it\n\tdescribes the problem BMW is having with their decision to\n\tsettle down to a shaft drive as a standard. They vacilate\n\tand persist in reintroducing the chain drive in various\n\tmodels. (R/C) Gosh. Well, on with the crusade!", "FOR SALE: 1990 Pontiac Grand Prix SE\n\n2-Door Coupe,\nWhite, White rims, Gray interior.\n58K miles (mostly highway),\n3.1 Litre V6 multi-port fuel-injected engine,\n5 speed manual transmission.\n\nOne owner.\n\nOptions include:\n\nA/C,\nRear defogger,\nPower steering,\nPower brakes,\nPower windows,\nPower locks,\nPower mirrors,\nCruise control,\nPower glass moonroof with sunshade,\nPower seat/recliner (driver's),\nPower seat/comfort/lumbar/headrest (both front seats),\nTrunk pass-through (for skis)\nAM/FM cassette stero (6 speakers),\nElectronic monitor/service system with graphic compass,\nStereo controls duplicated on steering wheel,\nRemote-keyless entry,\nand others.\n\nAsking $11,500.\n\nThe car looks and rides like it just rolled off\nof the dealers lot. It has been garaged and pampered.\nIt gets an average of 27.5 mpg highway, sometimes better;\ncity is around 19-23 mpg, depending on how it is driven.\n\nSelling because of baby coming soon. Need 4-door family\ncar. Will consider trade or partial trade with Ford Taurus,\nMercury Sable, or 4-door Pontiac Grand Am or similar American\ncar.\n\nI live in the Boston,MA area.", "My sunroof leaks. I've always thought those things were a royal pain.\n\nCan anyone provide any insight ?\n\nI know the seal isn't great. Maybe I could weld the stupid thing shut.", "Yes, there is: consumer confusion. In the early 80's with the\nfuel crisis, etc., everyone wanted better fuel mileage. Diesel fuel\nwas the cheapest fuel available and usually provides better mileage\nthan comparable gasoline engines. So, GM decided to conver their\n350 gas engine into a diesel engine (I think was a 5.7 liter). Big\nmistake. The engine was not redesigned, but converted. The engine\ncould not handle the higher compression, etc. Lots of problems with\nthese cars. This thew up a big red flag to the casual observer --\nDON\"T BUY A DIESEL. THEY ARE BAD. This was a gross generalization.\n\nAsk yourself this question -- if your livelihood depended on driving,\nLOTS of it, would you use a dependable or undependable (but cheaper\nin the short run) vehicle? What do Greyhound busses have in them?\nTrailer Trucks? Even Train Locomotives? Are these gasoline engines?\nNo, they are diesel. Tractor trailer truck manufacturers provide a\n500,000 mile warrantee with they vehicles.\n\nI own an `82 Diesel Suburban. The 6.2L diesel is a GREAT engine.\nJust keeps going. It was more expensive (when new) than the gasoline\nengine vehicle was. The only problem with diesel engines is that \nwhen they need to be rebuilt, they are expensive. In a gas 350\nengine, you will pay about $1000 for a rebuild. Diesel 6.2L is about\n$2000. But then again, the diesel engine lasts about twice as long\nand gets about 50% better mileage. A carburator for a gasoline engine\ncosts about $100 to rebuild (or less). A rebuild of the fuel injection\npump on a diesel will cost about $500 (or more). But then again,\nyou never need a tune-up.\n\nIf you're looking at a rebuilt 6.2L, I'd say you got a great deal.\nCheck to see if the fuel injection pump was rebuilt also.", "\nis this really the dealer's cost? did you get the dealer's cost by\nlooking at the invoice? there may be factory to dealer incentives.\ni'd check this out, since i have trouble believing that a dealer would\nsell a car to me at his cost.\n\ndealer invoice is not necessarily the dealer cost.", "\nI doubt his trans uses standard syncros. There are several mechanisms for\ncoupling a gear with the transmission output shaft, some of which are fine\nfor racing and unsuitable for street use.\n", "\n Why not? Ford owns Aston-Martin and Jaguar, General Motors owns Lotus\nand Vauxhall. Rover is only owned 20% by Honda.\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------", "For Sale: A Thule Car rack with 2 bike holder accessories.\nComes with Nissan Pathfinder brackets but you can buy the\nappropriate ones for your car cheap.\nLooking for $100.00 for everything. I live in the Bethesda area.\nThanks for your interest.\n", "\n--AutoWeek had an article about the car within the past six weeks.\n It was the issue with the Diablo VT AWD on the cover. Naturally, I\n don't remember the date of the issue offhand, but I can check it if\n anyone is interested. \n\n--Aamir Qazi\n\n-- ", "\nWell, you really can't dig a hole with a stock Shovel; you at least need some\nperformance mods like stroking and cams. Besides, it's REAL bad on the\nrear tire.", ": Is it possible to do a \"wheelie\" on a motorcycle with shaft-drive?\n: \n\n\tYes. \n\n ==============================================================================\n Erik Astrup AFM #422 DoD #683 \n\n 1993 CBR 900RR * 1990 CBR 600 * 1990 Concours * 1990 Ninja 250 ", "\n\nMy whole point was not to say that the cars *couldn't* go that fast,\nbut that they *shouldn't* go that fast. A family sedan designed to be\noperable at 85mph doesn't suddenly become operable at 130mph because\nyou added some plastic aero effects, slightly wider tires, and a much\nlarger engine. That's what the SHO is -- a slightly modified family\nsedan with a powerful engine. They didn't even bother improving the\n*brakes.*\n\nThe Mustang is essentially the same deal as the SHO -- a big power\nplant stuck in a mid-size sedan, with almost no other modifications.\nI have real-life experience with the Mustang -- it handles like a\nbrick (except when you're invoking oversteer, of course, something I\npersonally avoid doing on the highway) and stopping power is\ninadequate even from 80mph. Lots of accelleration -- but the rest of\nthe car is not up to par.\n\nI picked the Porsche example because they are designed with speed in\nmind. It didn't have to be the 911 -- it could have been the much\ncheaper 944 or one of several Mercedes or Audi models. All of these\ncars are fairly expensive -- but so are the parts that make them\ndrivable at high speed. This should be elementary.\n\nThere are a few things to keep in mind about Europe, since you brought\nit up. My Autobahn knowledge is admittedly second-hand, but I believe\nthe following to be true:\n\n1. Drivers are much better disciplined in Europe than they are here.\n2. The roads comprising the Autobahn are much better designed than\n they are here, and usually include animal fences. This makes them\n far more predictable than most US highways.\n3. Not all of Europe is the Autobahn. Most places in Europe have\n speed limits that aren't out-of-line with what we used to have in\n the US -- if my friends weren't lying to me they're typically not\n much higher than 120km/h.\n\nI strongly suspect you won't find a lot of Rabbit owners doing 120mph\n(nearly 200km/h) on the Autobahn, but I could be wrong. Some people\nhave no respect for their own lives.\n\n\n\nIf you think so you sure don't pay attention to my postings.", "\nThe answer to your question is...sort of. Volkswagen had a\nmuch less robust version of this army vehicle out in the\nearly '70's (or thereabouts). It was called the Volskwagen\nThing, and was, of course, a convertible. I havent seen\nmany around then or now. Good luck...\n-Mik\n", "HELP!!!\nmy wife has informed me that she wants a convertible for her next car.\nWe live in South Fla., so we are definitely in the right are for one.\nMy wife has mentioned the Miata, but I think it is too small.\nI would like to wait for the new Mustangs ( Dec. '93 I think).\nAnyone have any opinions on any/all convertibles in a reasonable price range.", "Any one with experience in having a centreforce clutch (or any other)\non his/her car?\nI'm considering to replace my old stock clutch on my 90 CRX Si.\nWhat is a fair price?", "\nok. so what's an \"exhaust bra\"? i'm guessing it's not a fabric thing that\nstraps to the pipes... does it go over the chin fairing/lowers in some way?\ni usually don't ride with the lower plastic...", "\n\nNice litle bike. I loved riding my brother-in-law's.\n\n ----===== DoD #8177 = Technician(Dr. Speed) .NOT. Student =====----", "\n\n\n I hate to admit this but there does seem to be some sort of twisted logic\nto this approach. It's the bikers against the world and the dogs are just \nanother worthless adversary. So remember to wear at least calf height leather\nboots, ( in case the dog gets lucky and sinks his teeth into your\nattacking foot) and go for the gusto, If that dog doesn't retreat from the\nstreet with his tail between his legs next time you see it then you really\nhaven't done your bit for all your fellow bikers.\n\n\nSorry I can't go this far, A dog against and armored cage just doesn't\nseem like a fair fight.\n\n\nafter all it is a dog eat dog world ", "I've had a Valentine for about 9 months now and I agree that it is the best det\nector available. The point here is trust and reliability. I've been able to \"tr\nust\" the Valentine more than any other detector I've owend. If the Valentine sa\nys that there is a moderate to strong radar source in front of me, then it's mo\nre than likely to be a speed trap. With my other detectors, I've gotten so many\n falses that I've begun to ignore someo of the warnings because I didn't want t\no drive like I had one foot on the brake and one on the gas pedal.\n\nThat directional indicator really, really helps. Plus, more info is almost alwa\nys better than less info. No matter how smart radar detectors get, the human br\nain is usually smarter. So, if I'm going to make a decisio based on information\n at hand, I want all the info I can get. Plus, if you divide the overall streng\nth of the radar signal by the number of bogeys reported, you'll find that each\nbogey is pretty weak and therefore not a radar threat. With other detectors, yo\nu'll just get one strong warning. My logic may be faulty on this, but I think i\nt works okay.\n\nAlthough, I must admit that I haven't really noticed the reflection problem of\none radar souce.", "\n It is certainly possible, and quite easy in most cases, especially\non two-strokes. It's very common to do this on bikes where the\ncylinder-mounting through-studs don't prevent the cylinder from being\nremoved with the engine in the frame.\n I did this when I assembled the top end on my Indian, which was\neasier yet because it does not have through-studs. Base flange studs,\nand separate head bolts, dontchaknow.\n You have to use a little foresight, rags, duct tape, etc. to keep\nclips from falling in, clothespins, hoseclamps, etc. to support the\ncylinder while you're inserting the pins.\n (Are these called Gudgeon Pins in the UK? If so, what's a Gudgeon?)\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------", "One thing is certain, though, its still too cold. After about 40\n\nHell! This is WARM. I retired my fleece from under the Aerostich last \nmonth when the temperature got aboce 40. Try living a couple of years \non the dole, so you cant afford any heating. You put the gear on in\nOctober, abd you take it off again in May. Getting out on the bike \nseems like a luxury in comparison cos oyur usuallu going somewhere \nwarm. \n\nIts all relative.\n", "\nHighway 12 is a great road. Be sure to stop by the Anasazi (sp) village\nmuseum near Boulder Creek. Interesting lifestyle :-). The views of Dixie \nNational Forest are stunning.", "since at least one other person was interested in this:\n\nmy FZR's black exhaust pipes are rusty and i researched getting them repaired.\nyesterday i bought a can of VHT 1500 degree black header paint and spent an\nhour sanding two of the header pipes by hand. sprayed on paint. thought\nabout how clean i was able to get the metal with sanding and determined that\ni wouldn't be at all suprised if the paint wore/chipped off in a month.\n\nsoooo call a couple of places up in minneapolis and discover that powder\ncoating, while extremely durable, will not handle over ~600 degree\ntemperatures. the place i talked to said they were experimenting with\nsome new powder that is supposed to handle 1100 degrees but that it wouldn't\nbe available for months at least. they directed me to another shop that\nspecializes in header coating.\n\nthe other shop said they have 2 coatings available. one is aluminized that\ncan do 1200+ degrees and is \"comparable\" to powder coating for durability.\nthe other is silicon (i think) based and can do 1800+ degrees (!) but is\nthinner and not as durable. both coatings have a textured finish (not\nsuper smooth) and should be cleaned with hot water and a brush.\n\nprice for 4 1-foot header pipes and a 2-foot 4-2-1 collector was ~$100. i'm\nplanning to take the parts up friday and get them back (UPS) next week maybe\nwednesday.\n\nsounds to me like this kind of coating stuff should be way better than paint\nconsidering how much abuse the pipes get from road crap/rocks.", "\nA mileage chart should be available in the book. It usually goes by\nthe class of car you own and year. Usually you will end up adding a few\nhundred dollars to the retail price or subtracting it... Consumer\nReports also has a number you can call and get a quote for your area.\nA friend of mine used it, and was quite happy with the service. I\nbelieve it cost about $10.00.", "Back when I was building round tail light 2002s they were Bimmers. It was\nonly when the (red suspendered, Reganomics generated, quiche eating) Yuppies\ngot into the market >-( that they became Beamers and the hood ornaments started\ndisappering.", "\n\nI agree. Six hour long stretches behind the wheel really make me\nthirsty, especially for something with caffeine. I consider it a\nfailing of my car that it has no cup holder nor anywhere to put a cup\nholder.", "This is a piece of psychology its essential for any long term biker to\nunderstand. People do NOT think 'if I do this will someone else suffer?'.\nThey assess things purely on' if I do this will I suffer?.", "Has anybody noticed that Toyota has an uncanny knack for designing horrible\nugly station wagons? Tercels, Corollas, Camrys. Have their designers no\naesthetic sense at all?", "I was wondering if someone could point me to somewhere I could\nfind a list (and hopefully comparison) of all the convertibles that are\nout these days. Seems like they are making a big comeback - but I'm not\nsure where to look\n", "\nYes, I saw a 200 Turbo Quattro wagon on I-287 in NJ on Monday. I thought\nAudi stopped selling wagons in the US after the 5000. This is exactly the\ntype of vehicle I would like to own. I bet its price is 4-5 times my\ncar budget.", "\n\nhmmmm.. not sure, since no such beast exists.. i can tell you another\nthough.. you won't catch me dead in a GMC Syclone or Typhoon either,\n1000 bhp or not.. not even the fact that Clint Eastwood has one. just\nmy taste, no rational reasons for it.\n\n\nCAR just tested the S4 wagon with 5 banger and 6 speed manual. Rave\nreview except for Servotronic.. Audi is trying to recoup the\ndevelopment costs for the V8, and since the V8 is not selling well,\nthey are sticking it into the 100 series cars.. Neat marketing trick,\neh? yeah, a 100 V8-32v wouldn't be a bad idea as competition for the\nupcoming bimmer 530/540i would it? maybe they can use a 3.6 liter\nversion to avoid conflicts with the v8 model.. then strip off all the\nluxo-garbage. let the S4 remain with the flared arches and fat tires\nto go fight with the M5.... maybe turn up the boost a wee bit to bump\nbhp up to say 450 or so.. :-) while keeping the 100 V8 with mercedes\n500E style subtlety.\n\nblah blah blah....\n", "\nI knew when I posted that I was going to get into trouble. Now I suppose I\nhave to give /5 wheelie demos at the Spring Fling or something.\n\nBut you're right, John, it is a chain drive model. I think it goes around\nthe camshaft and up over the rocker arms or something. Stolen from an early\nSpagthorpe design, according to urban legend.", "\nHmmmm.....I wondered where that hubcap went.\n", "How do you take off the driver side door panel from the inside\non an '87 Honda Prelude? The speaker went scratchy, and I want\nto access its pins.\n\n I see only one press button and the rest is snug fit.\n", "\nI hadn't heard of the Valentine-1 before. Car&Driver and other auto\nmagazines\nrecommend BEL detectors. I was considering their latest - the 966STi -\nwhich picks up Super Wideband Ka and Laser as well. It also avoids \nradar detector detectors (although I really don't care about this since I\ndoubt I'll be driving in Virginia anytime soon - or have any other states\nalso made detectors iilegal?)\n\nHow does the Valentine-1 compare with the BEL products?", "\n\nYou are sure that what you call a 200SX we call a 240? Just curious..\nWe also have a nissan predacessor (sp) to the 240 called a 200, which\ncame in turbo and nonturbo. But i don't think we've ever had a 240\nturbo...just curious...(BTW, I'm in the US, if that matters..)", "\n\nThe last V8 in Mad Max is based on a Holden (Australia). Holden is\nlinked with GM (Vauxhall GB) and so they're quite unlikely to use \nFord parts.", "Just found a great deal on a Clifford Delta car alarm, $450 installed. \nComes with glass break sensor, motion detector, and shock detector. Does \nanyone have one of these alarms? Are they any good? From the looks of it, its\nabout the best on the market for the price. It's also on sale, so that's \nanother reason to get it. I think I'll be saving almost $200. Any opinions?", "On the subject of the V4,Ford in the UK used V4 engines exstensively in\ntheir Ford Transit vans.This brings back a memory from the seventies.I\nplayed in a band at the time and for something like 180 pounds four of\nus bought a 1967 \"tranny\" to cart the gear around in.It was in terrible\nshape (cosmetically) because it's last owner was a pig farmer.We spent\ndays cleaning it up and putting in a partition and more seating but 'til\nthe day it died everytime you turned on the fan to the defroster dried\npig shit came flying out the vents!!!.\n Back to the engine if I remember right it was a 1600cc V4 and that\nthing could haul,we could fill it with equipment and up to 8 people and\nit went like a bat out of hell,of course there were no pollution controls\non the engine and the gas was leaded and higher octane than we get now.\n When the mechanical fuel pump quit we put in an electric one from a \nMorris Minor that worked great. Ah fond memories.\n\n\n", "\nHmmmmn...don't you ride with your sweetheart?\n \n-- \n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\"Tuba\" (Irwin) \"I honk therefore I am\" CompuTrac-Richardson,Tx\nirwin@cmptrc.lonestar.org DoD #0826 (R75/6)", ": Oh bull pucky, Ed. They use dogs because a) Many people are\n: scared shitless of them and b) because of the nose and the\n: vision and hearing. Without their cop partner in attendance,\n: the dog is so much meat in the hands of any human with\n: a bad attitude and al ittle training in violent force.\n\nOne of the things that police dogs are used for is to\n\"take the bullet\" instead of the human police officer.\nAs Charles said, many people are scared of dogs and will\npanic when one goes on attack. They will then turn their \nweapon on the dog and this allows the police officer to\ntake control.\n\n: Your advice is correct, but a dog is still no match for a trained\n: human in a fight.\n\nA single person vs. a single dog in a face-to-face confrontation should\nreally be no contest. The dog is no match for a human willing to fight.\nMultiple dogs is a different story . . .", "Excerpts from netnews.sci.electronics: 16-Apr-93 Re: What do Nuclear\nSite's .. by R_Tim_Coslet@cup.portal. \n\nGreat Explaination, however you left off one detail, why do you always\nsee them at nuclear plants, but not always at fossil fuel plants. At\nnuclear plants it is prefered to run the water closed cycle, whereas\nfossil fuel plants can in some cases get away with dumping the hot\nwater. As I recall the water isn't as hot (thermodynamically) in many\nfossil fuel plants, and of course there is less danger of radioactive\ncontamination.", "\nOr do like the manual says and put it in 3rd first, then you can quickly\ngo into reverse... no waiting.\n\nmark", "in maryland, they were $25 each when i learned to ride 3 years ago. now,\nit's $125 (!) for the beginner riders' course and $60 for the experienced\nriders' course (which, admittedly, takes only about half the time ).", "\nI'd try it on the VFR, but goddamn Competition Accessories hasn't mailed my\norder yet. Hell, it's only been two weeks and I was ordering some pretty\nbizzare stuff. Like a clear RF-200 face sheild, and a can of Chain Wax...\nBastards.\n\nDean", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\tFunny, the Manta's over in Europe look surprisingly like the Opel\nalluded to by the original poster.\n\n", "\n\tWell know I know how you can afford a Harley.\n", "\nTo avoid paperwork associated with re-certification as a brand new car,\netc. So for ad purposes it's a brand new nameplate, for paperwork it's\nstill a Stanza.\n\nSpiros\n\n", "\n\nI learned when riding bareback as a kid to \"palm-reign\", by just \npushing on the right side of the horse's neck with your right palm to turn \nleft - a lot like countersteering. So that came pretty easy to me in the \ntransition to motorcycles. It took a while however to break my habit of \nkicking the rear fender with my heels to go faster.", "Can somebody tell me what all the letter spesifications on motorcycle models \nreally mean. \nExample: What means the C, the B and the R in Honda CBR. - Or the V, S, G, L \nand P in Suzuki VS750GLP\n\nI wanna distribute this in our club magazine. I want lists of all types, but \nI already knows about Harley.\n\nThanks in advance!\n\n\tVidar\n ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n Vidar O. Solberg - NORWAY * ROCK HARD * RIDE FREE * \n\n \"We are the proud, the few and the true Metallibashers!\" ", "\nDon't forget little girls! My not-quite-2 year old daughter now\nexcitedly points and says \"motorcycle\" every time she sees one go\npast. I've done my work. (Of course, it helps that one of her\nbooks shows Sir Topham Hatt in a chaffeured side car rig...)\n\n\nCan you think of a better way to convince the kid that \"someday, I'll\nride one of those things\"?\n\n\nNo, it's a genetic thing with little humans...\n\nJust don't let them touch hot pipes.", "\n\n So. If I can scrounge up a good looking CX500 Turbo, will someone\n trade me an MHR Duc for it?\n\n\n\n===============================================================================", "\n\nActually, that'd be 155 mph and 60 mph (the legal speed limit for trucks) \nin *two* lanes, each direction. It's a hell of a rush when those trucks fly \nby. (or was that me flying by them? Who cares, the rush is really something \nelse, and so is the draft)", "\n\n\n\tI'll second that. In addition, I find my hazards to be more\noften used than my horn. At speeds below 40mph on the interstates,\nquite common in mountains with trucks, some states require flashers.\nIn rural areas, flashers let the guy behind you know there is a tractor\nwith a rather large implement behind it in the way. Use them whenever \nyou need to communicate that things will deviate from the norm. \n\n\n\tIs that ZX-11 painted green? Since the green Triumph 650 that\na friend owned was sold off, her name is now free for adoption. How\ndoes the name \"Thunderpickle\" grab you?", "\n\nNo... you can do this? Really? The other morning I went to do a lane change\non the freeway and looked in my mirror, theer was a car there, but far\nenough behind. I looked again about 3-5 seconds later, car still in same\nposition, i.e. not accelerating. I triple check with a head turn and decide\nI have plenty of room, so I do it, accelerating. I travel about 1/4 mile\nstaying ~200\nfeet off teh bumper of the car ahead, and I do a casual mirror check. This\nguy is RIGHT on my tail, I mean you couldn't stick a hair between my tire &\nhis fender. I keep looking in the mirror at him a,d slowly let off teh\nthrottle. He stays there until I had lost about 15mph and then comes around\nme and cuts me off big time. I follow him for about 10 miles and finally\nget bored and turn back into work. \n\nI can file a complaint about this? And actually have the chance to have\nsomething done? How? Who? Where?\n\njim", "BBBBBBBB MM MM WW WW\n BB BB MM M M MM WW WW\n B B MM M M MM WW W WW\n BBBBBBBB MM M M MM WW W W WW\n BB BB MM M MM WW W W WW\n BB BB MM MM WW W W WW\n BBBBBBBB MM MM WW WW\n \n PRESS RELEASE\n TO:: ALL BMW RIDERS\n SUBJECT:: RALLY TIME IS HERE\n FROM:: BMW CLUB OF NORTHERN CALIFORNIA\n \n BMW 49'ER RALLY, MAY 27-31 (U.S. Memorial Day Weekend)\n San Francisco Bay Area - 20th annual BMW 49'er Rally, sponsored by\n The BMW Club of Northern Califronia, will be held at the Quincy, \n California Fairgrounds, from May 27-31, 1993\n \n \tIncluded in the $42 pre-registration fee, $47 at gate, are 4 Star\n camping, field events and trophies, two dinners, rally pin, door prizes, \n Poker Run, vendor displays, Fun Run, English Trials, and live music playing\n throughout the weekend. Plus extras like hot showers, Tours, a Concourse\n D'Elegance and more.\n \n \tThis is first time in the 49'er Rally's 20-year history that the \n event is being held in Quincy. And according to Pat Gardner, Rally Chairman,\n \"The 49'er Rally's continuing growth and the need for a larger and more\n complete facility led us to Quincy. Plus we can get there on either of our\n two most favrite highways- Highway 70, which goes through the Feather River\n Canyon, or up from the South via the Northernmost part of the Gold Country's\n Highway 49.\"\n \n \tDay passes will not be available and non-BMW rider must be a \n pre-registered guest of a BMW rider.\n \t\n \tThe Quincy Fairgrounds is located on California State Highway 70/89,\n two miles South of downtown Quincy.\n \n \tFor pre-registration forms and additional information, write Doug\n Hubbard, BMW Club of Northern California, 41236 Norman Court, Fremont, CA\n 94539, or telephone (510) 651-2195\n\n ADDITIONAL NOTES:: \n This is a not for profit event and riders DO get their monies worth.\n Whether you've ever attended a rally before or not This is the one\n to make. The only problem has been that there are so\n many activities that attendees have to choose one over another.\n\n Quincy is a beautiful campground, lots of grass and little dust.\n For folks who have been to previous 49'er rallies at Mariposa, \n Quincy has lots of space, all of it flat so room is not a problem.\n There are buildings and such available if there is a change in the weather.\n Also the people of Quincy are going all out to welcome us. \n Registration will begin on thursday. Of course there are always early\n arrivals who will show up monday or tuesday. The registration fee pays\n for camping Thursday through Monday (5 days). There will be a tour Friday\n with the main events beginning Saturday. Sunday Evening will be the\n awards ceremony. ", "on wednesday morning, another driver decided to illegally\n\t\tturn left in front of me, doing great damage to my car\n\t\t(Honda Civic).\n\t\ti have yet to pay off the car, and the body shop says the\n\t\tinsurance company wants to total the car. i haven't\n\t\tbeen able to get in touch with the person handling my claim,\n\t\tso i checked on some things:\n\t\n\t\t\t1) my payout is $3700.00\n\t\t\t2) Blue Book retail is $5650.00\n\t\t\t3) loan value is $4450.00\n\t\t\t4) trade-in value is $4000.00\n\n\t\tcould anyone give me any advice on what i should/could do\n\t\tif the insurance company does not give me a reasonable\n\t\tamount for the loss of the car.\n\n\t\t\t\tthanks,\n\t\t\t\tjames baker", "Ummm...did you have any bikes other than that KX80? If not, I'd suggest you \nlook for an '89 ZX-7, since they only have about 90 horsepower, whereas the\n'90 has over 100 and might be a bit much for you...\n\nSincerely,\nNathaniel", "I agree with Gaia. Even though the Saturn has proved to be a very reliable car\nso far, a little money spent now is worth the peace of mind.\n\nIn my opinion, getting the PowerTrain warranty is enough. In my case, that's be\ncause; anything that needed repairing in the interior (sunroof, windows, doors,\n etc.) I could do myself. I just didn't want to mess with the engine and such.\n\nPlus I think the extra 3 years of 24-hour RoadSide Assistance must be worthe so\nmeting. I opted for the 5 year plan for $375.", "An aquaintence has a 87 Accord. The driver's side headrest was\naccidentally put in backwards and has jammed. According to the\ndealer, the only way to get it out is to spend several hours\ndisassembling the seat. This is the second time I have heard of this\nhappening, and I wonder whether there's an easier way to get the\nheadrest back out. Has anyone else ever dealt with this problem?\nYour advice would be appreciated!\n\nPlease email, and I will summarize if there is interest.\n\n--\n _ dan@dyndata.com\n / \\_ Dan Everhart uunet!{camco,fluke}!dyndata!dan\n \\_/ \\____________________________ 206-743-6982, 742-8604 (fax)\n / \\_/ 7107 179th St SW\n \\_/ Dynamic Data & Electronics Edmonds, WA 98026, USA ", "\nBob is indeed correct here in more than one way. A look in the old\nRCA picture tube manual backs this up, as does SAMS Reference Data\nhandbook. The internal coating around the perimeter of the CRT\n(not the aluminum or tin CRT face coating) is referred to as a\n\"dag\" as well as the outer coating.\n\nThankfully, I didn't need to go to a f****** library to find it, either.\nOne sparkling water for Mr. Vanderbyl (no caffeine in that, is there).\n\n-- \n--------------------------------------------------------------------\n Dave Medin\t\t\tPhone:\t(205) 730-3169 (w)\n SSD--Networking\t\t\t\t(205) 837-1174 (h)\n Intergraph Corp.\n M/S GD3004 \t\tInternet: dtmedin@catbyte.b30.ingr.com\n Huntsville, AL 35894\t\tUUCP: ...uunet!ingr!b30!catbyte!dtmedin\n\n ******* Everywhere You Look (at least around my office) *******", "\nI would probobly feel a hell of a lot poorer... a gas tank is about\n50$ in a junkyard. An engine... more!\n\nSeriously though, my other brother, DARRELL, left his VW on the same\nstreet... someone stole the radiator out of it.... try finding a VW\nradiator in a junkyard :-) I DARE YOU !\n\nJD", "By the way, what do people think about the Opel CAlibra?\n", "I first heard it about academic politics but the same thought seems to\napply to the BMWMOA\n\n\"The politics is so dirty because the stakes are so small.\"\n\nWho cares? I get my dues-worth from the ads and occasional technical\narticles in the \"News\". I skip the generally drab articles about someone's\ntrek across Iowa. If some folks get thrilled by the power of the BMWMOA,\nthey deserve whatever thrills their sad lives provide.\n\nBTW, I voted for new blood just to keep things stirred up.", "\nThis tactic depends for its effectiveness on the dog's conformance to\na \"psychological norm\" that may not actually apply to a particular dog.\nI've tried it with some success before, but it won't work on a Charlie Manson\ndog or one that's really, *really* stupid. A large Irish Setter taught me\nthis in *my* yard (apparently HIS territory) one day. I'm sure he was playing \na game with me. The game was probably \"Kill the VERY ANGRY Neighbor\" Before \nHe Can Dispense the TERRIBLE PUNISHMENT.", "I am considering buying an new car, so I called three insurance\ncompanies in California to get estimates. I asked for the same\ncoverage and same deductibles. Most of the companies charge you\naccording to your zip code. Others charge according to your city.\nAnyhow, I gave the same zip code and city to all three places. Here's\nwhat I found (for a '93 Integra GS):\n\nAAA: ~$2000/yr.\nState Farm: 2614.92/yr.\nAllstate: 1220/yr.\n\nAAA is non-profit, so they said I could also expect to receive about\n$200-300 back at the end of the year.\n\nStill, There is a huge gap between all of these companies. State Farm\nwants MORE than TWICE as much as Allstate. I think I should be\nsuspicious, but I've never heard anybody else complain.\n\nAny comments?", "Tony, I believe, first of all, that Max's car is an Austrailian\nbuilt car. I don't think its a chopped up U.S. unit. It may be called a\nKangaroo or Roo or something similar-not sure. But, I do recall reading\nthat Austrailian cars used Ford V-8 engines. The Ford V-8 Interceptor\nis, I think, a 428 c.i. cop car motor. Whatever the case that small car\nwith a screaming big block Ford 428 would probably smoke the tires for\nmiles/kilometers. I hope someone out there can elaborate on the subject.", "\nNot only the Sonett (correct spelling), but the 95 wagon and 96 sedan\nused a 1500 cc or 1700 cc V-4 from Ford of Germany. This particular\nmotor had a 60 degree vee angle, a balance shaft and siamesed exhaust\nports. This motor was later stretched into the V-6 commonly seen in the\nCapri.\n\nThe V-4 could make pretty reasonable power for its size. But in the\nSaab, it made too much torque for the transmission, which had been\ndesigned for a 3-cylinder 2-stroke.\n\n -- Chuck Fry, former Sonett III owner\n\n", "Did youy guys know that it is LEGAL to own a radar detector but is ILLEGAL\nto use it! Isn't that a bit like owning a gun but not being allowed to use it?\nMy mate just switches his off whenever the cops are around. \n", "\n Well, before we start calling the Engineering folks in France a bunch of\nbraindeads for this... \n My 1979 Mercury Capri had this lovely feature. This was not the earlier\nGerman variant but the newer one that was identical to the Mustang of \ncurrent fame. I can't tell you how many times this feature pissed me off.\nCome to think of it my brothers Zepher had this as well.\n\nRobert Dilmore\ndilmore@cray.com", "Excerpts from rec.autos: 26-Apr-93 Re: REVIEW: 1989 Ford Tauru.. by Mark\nW. Rice@mozart.Colu \ndavid.bonds@cutting.hou.tx.us (Dav\n\nOne more way, which works in manual trans cars I've driven, and it is my\npersonal favorite (the other suggestions above are great, but try this\none, too). \n\nWhile pushing the shifter *gently* towards reverse, let the clutch out\nslowly (right to the friction point) and the shifter will be pulled into\nposition. If you do it right, the car won't jump backward, nor will the\ngears grind.... You will just glide back.", "I'm looking for a sport-cruiser - factory installed fairings (\nfull/half ), hard saddle bags, 750cc and above, and all that and still\nhas that sporty look.\n\nI particularly like the R100RS and K75 RT or S, or any of the K series\nBMW bikes.\n\nI was wondering if there are any other comparable type bikes being\nproduced by companies other than BMW.\n\nThanks for the info,\nJae\n", "Hi, I just have a small question about my bike. \nBeing a fairly experienced BMW and MZ-Mechanic, I just don't know what to \nthink about my Honda. \nShe was using too much oil for the last 5000 km (on my trip to Daytona bike \nweek this spring), and all of a sudden, she trailed smoke like hell and \nwas running only on one cylinder. \nI towed the bike home and took it apart, but everything looks in perfect \nworking order. No cracks in the heads or pistons, the cylinder walls look \nvery clean, and the wear of pistons and cylinders is not measurable. All \nstill within factory specs. The only thing I could find, however, was a \nslightly bigger ring gap on the right cylinder (the one with the problem), \nbut it is still way below the wear-limit given in the Clymer-manual for \nthis bike. \nAny syggestions??? What else could cause my problem??? Do I have to hone \nthe cylinder walls (make them a little rougher in a criss-cross-pattern) in \norder to get better breaking in of my new rings??? Won't that increase the \nwear of my pistons??\nPlease send comments to \n\tsruhl@mechanical.watstar.uwaterloo.ca\nThanks in advance. Stef. ", "My little Nash has sat for about a year (had been running), but now I must move\na long distance and there are too many things to carry with me. Here are the\ndetails of the car:\n\n1958 Hardtop--Exterior condition:\n Rocker panels rusted out at weld points, no rust at typical spots like\n door hinge mounting points, back battery box, etc. Missing front bumper,\n front pan dented up, one weld popped in front. This is for the most part\n a solid, restorable automobile.\n\n Interior Condition:\n Missing original steering wheel, has one of the smaller aftermarket\n wheels, seats need reupholstered, general fair condition.\n\n Mechanical Condition:\n Had been running, but now does not want to start...needs new rings (which\n I have) also have extra parts such as complete long block, extra steering\n shaft, etc.\n\nFor a car that has not been touched since 1958, it is in solid shape. It will\nobviously need some work, but will make a good project.\n\nPRICE: Well, this is a tough one, I would like to get around 800.00, but will\nconsider any serious offers by individuals willing to come and get it. If you \nhave things to trade such as tools, toys, cameras, comics, cards, etc., \nanything easily movable to Florida, I may consider that as well.\n\nHit , or my e-mail address is Ellis.15@osu.edu\n\n(614) 777-0791 home (leave message)\nThanks", "\nHey, what do we look like, a parts store? Has it ever occurred to you to\nvisit your dealer and fork out the bucks for a new one? What are the\nchances of someone happening to have a '92 part laying around, much less\none in working condition? Sheesh, some edu's. \n\nBesides, I only have the right side inverted GSX-R fork. It's already been\nconverted into a floor lamp. ", "Grf. Dropped my Shoei RF-200 off the seat of my bike while trying to rock \nit onto it's centerstand, chipped the heck out of the paint on it...\n \n So I cheerfully spent $.59 on a bottle of testor's model paint and \nrepainted the scratches and chips for 20 minutes.\n \n Then, while it was drying, I realized that I was out of smokes and that my \ncage is not currently running... So I \"had to\" take my bike down to the \nstore. Not wanting to mess up my paint job, I said \"Well, heck. I can just \nuse my old helmet\".... this is your standard el cheapie openface... \n \n I didn't notice a big difference when I switched TO the shoei, but \nswitching back was really bad... \n \n 1) Doesn't fit worth a damn, too wide in the sides, too short front to \nback...\n 2) With a faceplate, it's still bloody windy... with the shoei, I normally \nignore the face shield until I get up to about 30ish... with this one, \ntaxiing to the end of the driveway was too smegging much wind. \n \n ", "\n\nYes. It's called RADAR.\n\n\nDepends on the environment: in a static environent such as a waveguide yes, in\na dynamic environment (with objects moving about) the multipath kills this\nconcept.\n\n\nWhat is the difference between vertical and horizontal?\n", "I have the following bike for sale:\n\n\ntype:\t\tDave Scott Centurion 1989 model\nsize:\t\t47 cm c-c\ngrouppo:\tShimano 105\ncranks:\t\t165 cm\npedals:\t\tShimano 105 P1050 with clips and straps\nframe:\t\tTange II Double butted steel\ngearing:\tfront: 52/42 rear: 24-22-19-17-15-13\nseat:\t\tTerry womens gel seat\ncomputer:\tAvocet 30\nextras:\t\tdouble water bottle cages\n\t\textra rear tire\n\t\t24\" front/700c rear setup\n\nMy wife is asking for $350 obo. Let me know if you are interested at the\naddress below. Thanks,\n\n-- mike --\n-- \n -=--------- Michael C. Whitman\n ---===------- National System Engineer - Telecom\n -----=====----- Pyramid Technology Corporation\n -------=======--- 1921 Gallows Road, Suite 250\n ---------=========- Vienna, VA 22182", "Well, like someone said in a reply to this it really all depends on the area\nthat you live in. See David Veal's reply to this. I have heard exactly the\nsame thing that he said in his reply - to fade away if you think that you\nhaven't been seen (I heard this from a police officer). For the record though\nhe was talking about in Tennessee - not everywhere.", "\n\n\n\n\nLets just say it is DUI here now!\n\n ----===== DoD #8177 = Technician(Dr. Speed) .NOT. Student =====----", "\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nAgreed! I own a Mercury Villager and I'm very impressed with the V6 and\nthe AT. In the past, I've been biased towards manual/standard transmissions(I owned\nan Aerostar with a 5-speed, it was awesome!), but settled with the AT in the\nVillager and have been pleasantly surprised with it's performance.\n \nBTW, Consumers Report in their report on the Villager, alluded to some\nfunny noises from the AT, I've been listening for them but haven't noticed anything\nunusual.\n \n-Chris\n\n\nChristopher J. Born", "\n\n\nI dont know about the car comparison but as far as the price goes rest\nassured that the street prices for the MX-3 and Escort and (maybe) even\nthe Honda will be lesser than that of the Saturn you're talking about.\nAll price comparisons I've seen are based on MSRP and of course the\nsaturn dealer will sell the car for sticker price whereas the others\nwill do it way below sticker.", "Well, I'm afraid the time has come; my rice-burner has finally died.\nI'd always promised my wife that we would do a Scandanavian tour when\nmy car died and pick up a Volvo in Sweden, drive it around and then\nimport it home. \n\nCan anyone give me 1) advice on feasibility and relative costs 2)\nreferences where I might learn more 3) Personal experience?\n\nPlease email", "-> 4) Are there any fairly cheap (<$150 or so) ways to increase the\n-> performance on this car? Unfortunately, a Taurus is not exactly a\n-> muscle car, so I'm looking for ways to increase the performance.\n\nThere is a company in Florida that sells computer chips that supposedly\nget a few HP and Torque out of the 3.0. Don't have the address, but saw\nthe ad in Hot Rod and some other car magazines. Also, you could open up\nthe exhaust (get an exhaust with a larger i.d.)\n\nHope this helps. If you find anything else, let me know. I've got a 1990\nTaurus L.", ": While driving through the middle of nowhere, I picked up KNBR, AM 1070,\n: a clear-channel station based in Los Angeles. They had an ad \n: claiming that they were able to get traffic flow information from \n: all of the thousands of traffic sensors that CalTrans has placed\n: under the pavement. Does CalTrans sell this info? Does KNBR have\n: an exclusive? What's the deal?\n\n: ==Doug \"Former L.A. commuter\" Claar\n\nYou were right the second time, it is KNX. Believe it or not, I also\nlisten to KNX in the evenings here in Colorado! It's kind of fun driving\nthrough the country listening to traffic jams on the 405. Back to your\noriginal question. Yes, there are sensors just past every on-ramp and\noff-ramp on the freeways. They're the same sensors used at most stoplights\nnow (coils in the pavement). You might want to give CalTrans a call or\neven ask Bill Keene (KNX's traffic reporter). I doubt if just anyone can\nget the information, but it would be worth asking just in case you can\nget it.", "The object of a cooling tower is to distribute dissolved salts in \ncooling water over large areas of farmland and to therefore decrease\nfarm subsidies for non-producers by rendering their land infertile.\n\nA side effect of this deficit-reduction program is that they provide\na low-T reservoir for a variety of industrial processes.\n\nNow you know. \n\n-- ", "^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nThere is a picture in the May 1993 edition of European Car (although,\nit may not be on the shelf yet).\n\n\n\t- prototype has front wheel drive (first front drive\n\t for Mercedes since the beginning of WWII)\n\n\t- wheelbase 3.15m\n\t- 7 seater\n\t- they claim that the price will be about the same as a\n\t Renault Espace or Chrysler Voyager (DM 50,000)\n\nLooking at the picture (slightly disguised) it looks like the Ford\nAerostar, to me.\n\n\n . \n / \nLarry __/ _______/_ \nkeys@csmes.ncsl.nist.gov / \\ \n _____ __ _____ \\------- ===\n ----------- / ____/ / / /__ __/ \\\n / ___ / / ___ / / / / ____ |\n | / \\/ /__ / | / /__ __/ /__ / \\ / \n /___ \\_______/ /_____/ /______/ ====OO\n \\ / \\ / \n - 1990 2.0 16v -\n\n\n ---------------- FAHRVERGNUGEN FOREVER! -------------------- \n The fact that I need to explain it to you indicates\n that you probably wouldn't understand anyway!", "\nYou moved from Alabama to California? My sympathies.\n\n\nMake sure that they have all maintenance records. Oil should be changed\nevery 3 months. The mileage on the cars is fine.\n\nBe sure that these have the 16 valve engine. The 8 valve 318 is a \nBMW in name only. \n\nDidn't you have a line on a '89 325i for 12K? Jump on it.\n\n", "\n\nIt also works great to put under your kickstand on those really hot\ndays when the tar gets really soft.....\n\n\n================================================================================\n \nJim \"rags\" Rye Senior Technical Support Analyst\n86 Harley Davidson rye@crayamid.cray.com\n Cray Research Inc, Mpls, MN.\n\n\"If you're going to do something tonight that you'll be sorry for \n tomorrow morning, sleep late.\"\n -Henny Youngman", "\nSo its an automatic? Don't know if US spec=CDN spec. for Maximas.\n\n\nIf it is the first set of brake pads on front, then this is fine. My car\neats a set every 15k miles or so. The fact that he is replacing the\nmuffler too is also ok.\n\n\nThe mileage is fairly low - but typical fwd stuff is CV joints. Check\nthe maintenance records with the manufacturers requirements for valve\nadjustments, timing belt changes and so on.\n\nThe 60k mile service is often expensive, so make sure he has done everything.\n\n\nWell, this is one of the commonly cited methods for identifying a\ncar with highway miles. \nMight check the gas pedal wear too. Ask him how many sets of tires he\nhas been through. A highway car might have squeezed by on 2 sets,\na hard driven car 6-10 sets.\n\n\n\nWell, the Maxima should be pretty reliable - but if its out of warranty\nyou should get it checked out by someone knowledgeable first. Stuff\nfor Japanese cars can be expensive.\n\n\n1995 model year, I believe. ", "From article <1993Apr25.201129.1239@Princeton.EDU>, by fuchs@tsar.princeton.edu (Ira H. Fuchs):\n generally, the corrosion is a signal that it's time to send them\n of to the recyclers, but if you're that desperate or cheap try \nbaking soda and a wire brush. use gloves and goggles, please!\n", "Anti Freeze\n\nI was wrong, still had the issue of \"Street Rodder\" in\nmy last pile. In the February 1991 issue on page 24 there\nis an advirtisement for anti freeze.\n \nAND IT MAKES A GREAT PARTY MIXER\nThe Neo Synthetic Oil Company has a reputation for\ndeveloping overkill priducts the protect and extend\nthe life of mechinical things, and here is there latest\ndevelopment. Propylene Glycol, probably the finest radiator \ncoolant available. After 100,000 miles of testing, they find\nit has a boiling point of 365 degrees (much higher than\nconventional coolants)- which helps elminate detonation and \npinging, it allows the use of smaller radiators in race cars,\nit will not damage aluminum blocks or heads, and it is \nenvironmentally safe. Yep, this is the good stuff.\nBaker Precision Products\nDept SRM\n2865 Gundry Ave\nLong Beach Ca 90806\n[213] 427-2375\n\nI neither endorse or unendorse the above product, I only\ncopied the advert blurb for others info, YMMV", "%\n% I was just wondering if there were any law officers that read this. I have\n% several questions I would like to ask pertaining to motorcycles and cops.\n% \n\n What happened to Charlie Lear?? He used to have \"connections\", didn't\n he?\n\n (Hey, this is cyberspace mister... you wanna 'stateside cop, ya gotta'\n specify!)\n\n-- \n ------------------------------------------------------------------------\n | John Little - gaijin@Japan.Sun.COM - Sun Microsystems. Atsugi, Japan | ", "\nJust in case the original poster was looking for a serious answer,\nI'll supply one.\n\nYes, even when steering no hands you do something quite similar\nto countersteering. Basically to turn left, you to a quick wiggle\nof the bike to the right first, causing a counteracting lean to\noccur to the left. It is a lot more difficult to do on a motorcycle\nthan a bicycle though, because of the extra weight. (Ok, so my\nmotorcycle is heavy. Maybe yous isn't.)", "\n\n\tYeah. I don't use the clutch all the time either. I've done it\nwith Fords, BMW, Datsun, and Chevy and it works fine. I can't think of\nany reason that it would damage the tranny. Essentially you are just\ndoing what the synchros do anyhow - match the engine speed with the\ntranny speed and slip it into gear.\n\n\n\n\n\tSounds about right. I usually slip it out during throttle-down\nand then blip the throttle and wait until it feels like things are right\n(usually about a second) and then slip it into gear...\n\n-- \n--------------------------------------------------------------------\nJon \"You obviously don't know who you're dealing with\" Gross\njong@halcyon.com", "Included in thas sale is a Cover . THe cover is not sold separately.\nThe trailer is not being sold. ", "Hello,\n\tI am looking to slightly increase the performance of my 89 Honda\nCivic Si. I was wondering if anyone could suggest upgrades that were not\ntoo drastic. I thought that one of the easiest upgrades would be a new\nheader. Does anyone know what kind of increase that the header would give\nme? I think I would check with Jackson Racing for the part. Are there\nany other comparines would make Honda parts. \n\n\tAre there any other small changes that can be easily made and won't\nscrew up the car. Things like new injectors?, new fuel injection chip etc?\nI would welcome any suggestions of small changes that would make a\ndifference.\n\n\tI don't really want to change the cam etc because I have heard that it\nwould be much harder on the engine.\n\nE-Mail relpies prefered please and I will post a summary of all the replies.\nThanks for any help you may have to offer!\n", "\n\nSay, you bought your Saturn at $13k, with a dealer profit of $2k.\nIf the dealer profit is $1000, then you would only be paying $12k for\nthe same car. So isn't that saving money?\n\nMoreover, if Saturn really does reduce the dealer profit margin by $1000, \nthen their cars will be even better deals. Say, if the price of a Saturn was\nalready $1000 below market average for the class of cars, then after they\nreduce the dealer profit, it would be $2000 below market average. It will:\n\n1) Attract even more people to buy Saturns because it would SAVE THEM MONEY.\n \n2) Force the competitors to lower their prices to survive.\n\nNow, not only will Saturn owners benefit from a lower dealer profit, even \nthe buyers for other cars will pay less.\n\nIsn't that saving money?\n\n", "\n\tLast year produced: 1980.\n\n\n\tYes, there are still alot of MGBs out there. The earlier cars (pre\n 74-1/2) are usually more desirable due to certain things that went with having \nchrome bumpers (ride height, generally more power). The older cars are \nappreciating... slowly. The newer ones seem to be at a stable level at the \nmoment. $6 to $8k would require extremely good condition and low miles.\nIf the car is in good shape and regular maintenance is kept up on it, the car \nshould last for a long time. There are still plenty of parts sources ouththere. \n The MGB is a great, fun little car. If she is keeping it solely in the hopes \nthat it is going to appreciate, tell her to sell it. It is not worth waiting \nthe time it would take to appreciate to a real profitable level.", "Mike Sixsmith, on the 16 Apr 93 10:07:55 GMT wibbled:\n\n[ very interesting (yawn) stuff deleted, because I'm like that... ]\n\n: Formal training is in my view absolutely essential if you're going to\n: be able to ride a bike properly and safely. But by including countersteering\n: theory in newbie courses we are confusing people unnecessarily, right at\n: the time when there are *far* more important matters for them to learn.\n: And that was my original point.\n\n: Mike\n\n\nI am in complete concordance with you there, Mike. I was a Silver StarRider\ninstructor, for a while. I learn't about countersteering last year\nand I have been riding bikes since 1976. We were never told about\ncountersteering when being taught to instruct. It doesn't seem to have\naffected me or my friends or pupils. We just rode in blissful ignorance.\n--\n\nNick (the Biker) DoD 1069 Concise Oxford\n\nM'Lud.", "In response to Jerry Lotto's post about not putting your helmet on your\nmirror or else risk damaging the padding from the inside.\n\nOne of the major causes of mirror breakage is impact with the pavement.\nLaws mandating that all mirrors be protected by helmets might be in order.\nBut seriously...\n\nOne place to put a helmet is on a, preferably clean, footpeg, hanging from\nthe chin-guard, away from any hot pipes.", "}In heavy traffic I slow down a bit, mostly so I have more buffer zone in\n}front to balance the minimal buffer behind, but I also often find that the \n}jerk behind will notice traffic moving faster in other lanes, switch\n}into one of them, and pass me - which is fine, because then I can keep a\n}better eye on the jerk from behind, while looking ahead, rather than\n}from in front, while splitting my attention between ahead and the mirrors.\n\nThis is pretty damned complicated. I just make a \"back off\" motion with\nmy hand/arm, and the second or third time even the most braindead cager\nbacks off. If they don't back off then, I find a way to get the hell out\nof there -- the cager is either psychotic, drunk, or just a complete\nasshole. In any case, I don't want to be anywhere near, and especially\nnot in front.", "From \"Management of Electronics Assembly\" (Ian Oakes)\nAfter talking about 63/37 tin lead alloy and the eutectic point...\n\"Occasionally, impurities may be added to solder, to vary charactersitics \nwithin the soldering process in an attempt to improve performance. For\nexample, addition of small quantities of antimony and copper can reduce\nthe amount solder moves under stress when solid. For particular\napplications additions of impurities may be warranted but, in general, it\nis best to keep the solder used in a soldering process as pure as possible.\"\n\nI guess this is the good oil for commercial operations, but it doesn't\nmention anything esoteric.", "CB> DON'T BE SO STUPID AS TO LEAVE YOUR HELMET ON THE SEAT WHERE IT CAN\nCB> FALL DOWN AND GO BOOM!\n\nRyan> Another good place for your helmet is your mirror (!). I kid you not.\n\nThis is very bad advice. Helmets have two major impact absorbing\nlayers... a hard outer shell and a closed-cell foam impact layer.\nMost helmets lose their protective properties because the inner liner\ncompacts over time, long before the outer shell is damaged or\ndelaminates from age. Dr. Hurt tested helmets for many years\nfollowing his landmark study and has estimated that a helmet can lose\nup to 80% of it's effectiveness from inner liner compression. I have\na video he produced that discusses this phenomenon in detail.\n\nPuncture compression of the type caused by mirrors, sissy bars, and\nother relatively sharp objects is the worst offender. Even when the\ncomfort liner is unaffected, dents and holes in the foam can seriously\ndegrade the effectiveness of a helmet. If you are in the habit of\n\"parking your lid\" on the mirrors, I suggest you look under the\ncomfort liner at the condition of the foam. If it is significantly\ndamaged (or missing :-), replace the helmet.", "For those of you with motorcycles of the liquid-cooled persuasion,\nwhat brand of coolant do you use and why? I am looking for aluminum-safe\ncoolant, preferably phosphate-free, and preferably cheaper than $13/gallon.\n(Can you believe it: the Kaw dealer wants $4.95 a QUART for the Official\nBlessed Holy Kawasaki Coolant!!! No way I'm paying that usury...)\n\nThanks,", "My friend brought a subaru SVX recently. I had drove it for couples times and I\nthink its a great car, esp on snow. However when she took it to a local Subaru\ndealer for a oil change, the bill came out to be about 80 dollars. The dealer\ntold us it is because to change the oil filter on a SVX it is necessary to\ndisassemble a metal cover under the engine and that took an hour of labour.\nAt first, we think we are being ripped off so she phone to a dealer in Toronto\nbut found out the they are charging roughly the same price. So is there any\nSVX owner out there that has the same problem ? And if the oil change story is\ntrue, then the engineer of Subaru looks pretty stubid to me. By the way, the car\nlooks great.", "Sayeth \"Joseph D. Mazza\" :\n$I waxed my car a few months ago with a liquid wax and now have whiteish\n$smears where I inadvertantly got some wax on the black plastic molding. \n$I've tried repeatedly to remove the smears with no luck. I'm on the\n$verge of replacing the molding altogether (it's a nice car).\n\n Armor All removes Raindance wax on my Mazda Protege's black\nplastic bumpers. Your mileage may vary.\n\n Given this observation, one would be well advised to take care not to\nget any of this (or, probably, similar protectants such as Son of a Gun)\non one's paint ...", "It sounds like a MAGNAVOX with a sick flyback on its way out!", "\n\tWhen I'm riding my 900RR, my goodies are already up\n\tagainst the tank, because the design of the Corbin seat\n\ttends to move you forward.\n\n\tWouldn't the major danger to one's cajones be due to\n\taccelerating into and then being stopped by the tank? If\n\tyou're already there, there wouldn't be an impact\n\tproblem, would there?\n\n\t\t\t\t- Michael -\n\n", "\n\n\n\n\tI think the Blue Book is the NADA handbook for used car prices, no?\n\tIs the Blue Book value given the retail or wholesale value??? The \n\tBlue Book value isn't set in stone, though. Low milage, extra addons\n\tand stuff like that there can increase the resale price of the car, you\n\tmay want to head on over to the local library or borrow your friends\n\tBlue Book and read up on that sort of stuff. I paid ~$400 under BB\n\t(retail) for my '87 Civic in 1990, and it was in perfect condition and\n\thad only ~14.5K miles on it. The guy was desparate to sell, new kid on\n\tthe way, etc., but it was a good price. Remeber, both you and the \n\tbuyer, if he has any sort of brains at all, are using the Blue Book, so\n\tyou should pick a fair price. \n\n\n\t\t\t\tChintan Amin\n\t\t\t\tllama@uiuc.edu\n", "\n: [... SQUIDS ...]\n\n: I felt embarassed at this point to be a motorcyclist. I felt the eyes of those\n: in cages, witnessing this display, then glancing over to the dealers lot and\n: damning all those on two wheels. Needless to say, my friend felt a little\n: uncomfortable and we left. \n\nDid you express your embarrassment to the owner? I don't blame you for being\nembarrassed, but I would have let my feeling be known that the behaviour of \ntheir sales staff and apparent enjoyment of such behaviour just cost them \na sale and all further sales.\n\n: I will now turn off my frustration and go ride... peacefully, to clear my\n: anger. I only hope that the cop who is following me home, has an open\n: mind and doesn't associate me with them. \n\nSound good. Enjoy.\n\n: BTW, I can't afford a new bike.....\n\nWho can?", "\nDepending on how you plan to use your SUV, I might recommend also\nbrowsing Trailer Boats and one or more of those Pickup, Shotgun,\nand 4WD magazines. The car rags mostly seem to consider recently\ngraded pea gravel to be offroading and ten sacks of redwood chips\nto be a bedload. Considering that most of these SUVs seem to be \nused mostly as robust station wagons, that's probably not a bad\napproach, but if your applications are more demanding, pick your\ninformation sources accordingly.\n\nOf the three vehicles on your short list (Explorer, 4Runner, \nPathfinder), I'd recommend the 4Runner as being closely based \non a rather robust pickup and the Explorer for being comfortably \ncarlike. Don't know much about the Pathfinder.", "\ni think those with 1.6 MR2's would describe the engine as sweet if a\nlittle loud, those with 2.2 MR2's i can't imagine any unbiased person\npaying it any compliments. sounded like my ex-dormmate's rusty chevy\nchevette. with the 1.6 i would want to redline it just for the music,\nwith the 2.2 i would short shift so that it would shut up.. the new\ncamry 2.2 features balance shafts. i guess since the mr2 is getting\nthe axe, it is too late for them to do anything about this..\n\nit is no mystery that the turbo mr2 is \"only\" 2 liters.. the engineers\nhad enough integrity to prevent any further abuses. also, in europe\nthe MR2 Mk2 non-turbo was also \"only\" 2 liters.. as usual, the\nundiscriminating american market (if it is japanese it *must* be good)\ngets the dogs.. to be fair, we also got the turbo, which the europeans\ndid not.\n\n", "\n\n\nI'll go 2 feet, but I draw the line at 3. ", "\nYou can avoid these problems entirely by installing an oil drain valve in\nplace of the bolt. I have one on both of my cars. There have been no\nleaks in 210,000 miles (combined miles on both cars).", "\nI have the same problem with my '90 probe. The water is definitely not comming\nup from the rubber stoppered hole beneath the spare. I have to remove the\nrubber stopper to drain the water. Seems like a common problem with probe.\n\n", "There's also Billy Jack, The Wild One, Smokey and the Bandit\n(Where Jerry Reed runs his truck over Motorcycle Gangs Bikes),\nand a video tape documentary on the Hell's Angels I\nfound in a rental store once\n", "What are people's opinions about laser detectors? Escort makes a\nlaser detector, the Passport 1000, and claims it works fine. However,\nI've talked to some people who have said that it will only work if you\nare lucky - i.e. if the cop happens to point his laser at a car in\nfront of you, and the laser beam happens to reflect back to your\ndetector. Otherwise it won't work. Regular radar, of course, travels\nin all directions; hence it is more detectable. Any comments?\n\nEscort has a deal (till the end of April, I think), where if you buy\ntheir wideband (Passport 3200 - X, K, Ka) and laser detectors, you'll\nsave $60 off of buying them separately. In this case, the addition of\nthe laser detector over the Passport 3200 is only $40 (i.e. Passport\n1000 normally costs $100).\n--\nEddie Gornish\nUniversity of Illinois - Center for Supercomputing Research & Development", "\n\nMany cars sold here in Finland are *small* and *cheap* cars (at least when\ncompared to other cars --- note that we have over 120 % car tax).\n\nAnd you couldn't expect a good auto mated to a 1.3 L engine?", "\nJust a quick comment. Backup lights mounted on the side\nwould actually be *extremely* useful for people backing out of\nparking stalls...\n\nRegards, Charles", "\n==================\nLet me see, \"unless you have an accident, you won't need more\", hmmmmmmm.", null ], "marker": { "opacity": 0.5, "size": 5 }, "mode": "markers+text", "name": "1_the_to_and", "text": [ "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", 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"dtype": "f4" } }, { "hoverinfo": "text", "hovertext": [ ": \t\t\tWatch us soar in 1993!\n\n\nShouldn't that be 'Watch us stoned in 1993!'? :)\n\nor maybe 'Watch us suck in 1993!'\n\nor even 'Watch us sore in 1993!'", "\nMethinks you recall wrong. Mitchell hit close to .300 in Atlanta and \ncontinued to walk alot after his promotion. He was then (I think) left\noff the playoff roster, and started the next year in the minors where\neven the Braves will tell you he underperformed because he was so mad\nat going back down. \n\nhe struggled last year, no doubt, but even the Braves blamed part of it\non the demotion. I'd much rather have Mitchell than say Mark Whiten on\nthe Cards.\n\n\n", "\nI don't buy this at all. Roy was the reason the game was tied... and that\nwould *not* have been the case had Dionne kept his cool. \nHextall gave up 2 very questionable goals himself ...\nBoth Dionne's and Bellows' shots were misplayed by Hextall, but just because\nhis gaffes were early in the game, no one seems to care. Roy stood on his head \nfor the first 15 minutes of the game when the Nords were rushing from \nend-to-end. Kamensky's mini-break after the tying goal and the first shot by \nYoung in OT were both excellent chances stopped by Roy. Roy outplayed Hextall \nfor most of the game, but Roy becomes the villain and Hextall the hero \nbecause Roy's team didn't make full use of their opportunities.\n\nHextall, on the other hand, had a lot of lucky bounces ... he played very \nwell, but the Haller shot off the post in OT, the rebound bouncing over \nBellows' stick, the Brunet breakaway, the 3 chances for LeClair ... all \nthose opportunities were *not* finished off by Montreal, and it cost them.\nHextall wasn't particularly brilliant on those plays ... \n\n\nSure, no excuse ... but it was just the 1 goal. The timing stank, but against\nan explosive team like Quebec, they gave them 1 opportunity too many with\na powerplay that was totally unnecessary.\n\n\nI disagree. Roy played well because he wasn't screened the whole night. \nThe defense, for the 1st time this season, played remarkably, keeping Sakic,\nNolan, and Sundin out of the slot most of the night.\n\n\nThis most certainly was a team loss... Leclair missed his opportunities,\nas did Bellows and Brunet. Dionne took a bad penalty. Damphousse and Lebeau\nwere *silent*. Carbonneau and Savard were a step behind all night. Roy gave\nup the bad goal. Roy, by no means, can be singled out for this loss.\n\n\nAnd Hextall didn't on Dionne's goal? Please. Roy is paid big money because\nthat is his value compared to other goalies ... and he still is in the top 5,\nwhen you consider the defense, or lack of one, that played in front of him\nfor most of the season.\n\n\nThe Montreal media is the quickest to heap praise and then hurl derogatory\ncomments against the Habs. They are no better than uninformed fans. Why should\nthey read the papers? They played 58 minutes of \"Burnsian\" hockey to shut\ndown Quebec. All they need tonight, and for the rest of the series is the \nextra 2.\n\nRed Light to face Quebec...rubbish. That's a guaranteed way to end the\nseries 4-0. Who would be taught a lesson by this ?\nThe fans, the media, and Racicot, perhaps. Certainly not the rest of the team.\n\n\nIf you mean the goal should never have gone in, because there should never\nhave been an OT, then I agree. But the goal itself was a great piece of work\nby Young. Roy had both the near and far posts covered, but Young flipped the\npuck up under Roy's arm as he wrapped-around the net ... not a bad goal at all.", "From another not-so-distressed-but-still-wondering-about-a-few-things\nCardinal fan:\n\n\tHe's not the greatest - this is true.\n\tI saw it.\n\tLankford was hurt, although the announcer said he told Torre he\n\tcould pinch hit if they needed him to.\n\tI wondered the same thing. But giving Joe the benefit of the \n\tdoubt, I'd say he was thinking that Lankford is hurt enough that\n\the didn't trust his ability to bat effectively but he wants his\n\tspeed on the bases so pinch run him. Alicea I was completely\n\tconfused about. Maybe he had a good record hitting against that\n\tparticular pitcher? I don't know. Anybody got an idea?\n\tWell, so far I haven't seen much to say Whiten shouldn't be playing\n\tbut it is too bad that Gilkey is the odd man out when they play \n\tJordan ahead of him. That I don't quite understand.\n\tYup, I looked for this on the replay too. If I'm Joe Torre, I'm\n\tgoing to have a talk with Bucky after the game on that one. He's\n\tgot Lankford at third with Todd Zeile I believe - a hot hitter - \n\tcoming up - there's no reason to risk giving Lankford the go sign \n\tin that situation unless he was sure the ball is going to the stands. \n\tIt's his job to watch the play develop - he should have known Larkin \n\twas there to back up a bad throw. That seemed inexcusable in my book. \n\tBTW, I saw Dent do the same thing last year with Zeile rounding third \n\tand going into a sure out at home in a critical situation. On the \n\treplay, there's Dent waving him around. It looks like this might be a \n\tserious problem. The Card's weren't good base runners at all last year \n\tand I wonder how much of the fault lies in the base coaching.\n\n\tWell, I'm still hanging in there.\n\n\tGO REDBIRDS!! WOOF, WOOF!!!\n\n\nDick Detweiler", "\n\nmlb.c is archived on the Internet Baseball Archive\n\nanoymous ftp to eucalyptus.cc.swarthmore.edu (130.58.67.44)\nyou must use your full email / username id as a password\n\ncd ./baseball/schedules\n\nit's filed as mlb-schedule-program.c for clarity\n\nschedules pre-generated for east-coast times are there as text files as\nwell, and a couple of teams' TV schedules -- please send me more TV info if\nyou have it on other teams.\n\n- matt\n\nMatt Wall * wall@cc.swarthmore.edu * Hey, I gotta job here, OK?", "With the recent demise of the Chicago Blawkhawks (much to my delight) I\nnoticed their 8 (?) game playoff losing streak (4 to the Pens last year, and\nnow 4 to the Blues) and I am wondering what the NHL record for consecutive\nlosses is, if there even is one...\n\nI'm pretty sure that the Hawks have at least a 9 game losing streak, since\nthey've had to have lost a series since their last championship (whenever that\nwas)\n\nBasically, I need something else to rag on my Hawks-fan friend with :)\n\nMike, the insomniaced", "\n\n\n\nI like the Mariners a lot, but my heart belongs to the Cubs...You can imagine\nmy frustration when I saw the Cubs nabbing LeFebvre...ARHGGHRGHH!\n\n-John Neuharth", "\nI AGREE, LUMBERJACK (except that they're in 2nd)! They ARE going PLACES -\nSan Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Cincinnati, Denver, Atlanta, Miami,\nPhiladelphia, New York, Montreal, Pittsburgh, Chicago, St. Louis...and\npoints in between. :-)\n\nBut,\nTHEY'RE 0-3 AT HOME!\n\nI'm just not used to an overly enthusiastic Houston fan. I really shouldn't\ndiscourage it, so HANG IN THERE, LUMBERJACK! (But, get ahold of that shift\nkey, will ya?)\n\nObBase: Apparently the new owner (Drayton McLain (sp?)) doesn't particularly\nlike excuses. An item in our paper (the Austin American-Statesman - \"If you\nread it here, it was somewhere else first\") said that he wouldn't take \ninjuries as an excuse for losing because that possibility should have been\naccounted for. Uh, oh. I don't want an owner that'll keep everybody on\nedge - I'd never gotten that feeling about him, but who knows? Does \nanybody down there in the Houston area have a feel for how meddling of an\nowner McLain is going to be?", "\nLinares has not defected; as I pointed out, MLB requires that the player\ndefect first.\n\n\nWhat a surprise. As long as the pool of talent is not accessible to all\nteams, MLB won't let a few teams sign it. Seems perfectly reasonable to\nme. \n\n\nExcept that MLB won't allow it, which is all I ever said.", "\n\n\n\nFoolish me. And here I thought it had something to do with the \nfact that they were hitting against Wakefield, who had no \"kncukle\"\nto his ball that day, and Otto, who has no stuff. I wonder if \nReggie gave the same pep talk and instruction to the rest of the\nlineup, who also suddenly came alive those two games.\n\n\n\n--\tThe Beastmaster\n\n", "\nI'm a little worried about this pitching thing. 6.08 is scarry even for\nthe first 16 games of the season. Mesa (sp?) seems to be settling down. \nHe pitched well against the Red Soxs, but The Rocket matched him. I got a\nchance to watch them play against California Wednesday and he pitched well\nalso. Then the dam broke. Wickander came in and promptly it was 6-1. (3\nrun homer by Snow?).\n\nI heard the guys on ESPN say that 7 of the TRIBE's top 10 prospects are\npitchers. Anyone out there like to post who these guys are and where they\nare?\nThe TRIBE is on ESPN again tonight against Oakland.", "By Dave Luecking Of The Post-Dispatch Staff\n\nAt 9:11 Thursday night, the scoreboard watchers at The Arena began to cheer.\nTheir cheer quickly turned into a roar, and finally, the sellout crowd of\n17,816 rose as one to rock the old barn at 5700 Oakland Avenue in a salute to\nthe playoff-bound Blues.\n\nThe scoreboard had just flashed the news from Detroit -- Red Wings 5, Stars 3.\nWith the North Stars' loss, the Blues officially clinched fourth place and the\nfinal playoff spot in the Norris Division. Good thing, because the Blues quit\nplaying.\n\nThey held a 5-1 lead over Tampa Bay when the Detroit-Minnesota final appeared\nwith 3 minutes 52 remaining in the second period. They promptly went to sleep\nand barely held on for a 6-5 victory that nearly slipped away at the buzzer.\nTampa's Bob Beers tipped in a pass from Shawn Chambers, but officiating\nsupervisor John D'Amico and video goal judge Rich Schweigler ruled that the\nshot had gone into the net after time had expired.\n\n``I'm glad I didn't see it go in at the end,\" Blues coach Bob Berry said.\n\nIf the goal had counted, he'd have been more upset than he was by the Blues'\ndisappearance in the final 24 minutes. Holding on for the victory and making\nthe playoffs tempered Berry's anger.\n\n``It wasn't pretty at the end,\" he said. ``We played 36, 37 great minutes, as\ngood as we played all year. It slipped away at the end. It shouldn't have, but\nit did.\"\n\nStill, the Blues won, prompting another ovation from the crowd at game's end.\nDespite their shoddy effort in the third period and all the turmoil this\nseason, the Blues still made the playoffs. They'll meet the Chicago Blackhawks\nin a best-of-seven Norris Division semifinal, beginning at noon Sunday at\nChicago Stadium.\n\nThe Blues finished the regular-season with a record of 37-36-11 for 85 points,\ntheir fourth consecutive plus-.500 season. Minnesota finished three points\nbehind in fifth place, with a record of 36-38- 10 for 82 points. Tampa Bay,\nwhich played spoiler last week by tying the Blues 2-2 at Tampa, ended its\nfirst season with a record of 23-54-7 for 53 points.\n\nThe poor finish cast an unnecessary shadow over what should have been a joyous\nBlues locker room. Instead, the mood was one of relief and some disappointment.\n\n``It's a shame we let down,\" said Kevin Miller, one of three Blues to score\ntwo goals. Brendan Shanahan and Bob Bassen were the others.\n``There was no need for a letdown. If we'd have kept working, it would have\nended 6-2 and everyone would be happy.\"\n\nInstead, a lot of players were happy just to make the playoffs.\n``We won, and that's all that matters,\" said Brett Hull, scoreless and minus-3\nfor the night. ``Once we got up 4-0, it was really tough to play.\"\n\nSome players didn't have a problem.\n\n``Just because the score was announced, our line didn't quit,\" said Rich\nSutter, who played with Bassen and Miller. ``We still had a game to play. You\ncan't allow five goals like we did, that's not right.\n\n``It was disappointing to see what was going on.\"\n\nBassen was almost frantic on the bench because of the Blues' effort. Somehow,\nhe missed the announcement of Minnesota's loss.\n\n``I didn't know it was final,\" he said. ``I was kind of looking around on the\nbench. I didn't realize it was a final for some reason. We're in the playoffs,\nand that's great, but it's a little disappointing to play like we did at the\nend.\"\n\nThe letdown was precisely the reason that Berry had instructed the scoreboard\noperators to keep the Minnesota-Detroit score off of the board. The score\nshowed 0-0 until it first popped up with Detroit leading 4-2 in the third\nperiod. The Blues already led 4-0 at the time.\n\n``I told them I didn't want to see the score, I didn't want to know the score,\"\nBerry said. ``I felt we had to win the game, and that's the approach we took.\"\n\nIf Minnesota took a lead, Berry feared, the pressure of having to win might\nbother the Blues. If Detroit led, he worried, the Blues might quit.\n\nUntil the announcement, the Blues played splendidly. Shanahan got the crowd\ngoing at 10:44 of the first period, scoring his 50th of the season. Then,\nMiller and Bassen took charge late in the period.\n\nWith the teams playing four on four, Miller broke in on left wing, deked\ndefenseman Roman Hamrlik and beat former Blues goalie Pat Jablonski with the\nrebound of his own shot with 21.6 seconds remaining in the period.\n\nThen, just 10.5 seconds later, Bassen rifled a long slap shot past Jablonski\nafter defenseman Rick Zombo intercepted a Tampa pass in the neutral zone.\n\nBassen made it 4-0 just 14 seconds into the second period, scoring on the \nrebound of Bret Hedican's shot. The goal gave him his first two-goal game of\nthe season and reminded him of a special friend.\n\nLast year, Bassen befriended young Oliver Mulvihill, who died of a rare form\nof cancer at age 6 on Feb. 23.\n\n``I was thinking of my buddy Oliver,\" Bassen said. ``He's in heaven now, and\nI know he was watching. I know he's happy.\"\n\nMiller increased the Blues lead to 5-0 on a break-away goal set up by Zombo\nat 11:09. Then, Steve Maltais broke Curtis Joseph's shutout just 18 seconds\nlater, making it 5-1.\n\nLess than a minute after the North Stars' final was announced, Tim Bergland\nscored and cut the lead to 5-2. But Shanahan scored his 51st, converting a pass\nfrom Nelson Emerson with 21.3 seconds remaining in the second period.\n\nThen, it was all Lightning. Adam Creighton scored 40 seconds into the third\nperiod, prompting Berry to rest the overworked Joseph. Guy Hebert allowed goals\nto Shawn Chambers and Danton Cole in a span of 1:21 midway through the third\nperiod.\n\nThe goals by Chambers and Cole made Shanahan's second goal stand up as the\nwinner. ``We were in there,\" Shanahan said. ``The game was over. We were in.\"", "I am not sure about the tie breaker rules. However, I think if the Islanders win\n(Oh God, Please, Please let them win), the Islanders win the series against \nNJ and advances to third.\n\n********************************************************************************\nOf course no one asked me, I always interject my opinions on maters I have no\nconcern over.", "NHL PLAYOFF RESULTS FOR 4/21/93.\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n CONFERENCE SEMI-FINALS BEST OF SEVEN\n PATRICK ADAMS NORRIS SMYTHE\n \n NJ BUF (leads 2-0) STL (leads 2-0) WIN \n PIT (leads 2-0) BOS CHI VAN (leads 2-0)\n\n NYI (tied 1-1) MON TOR LA (tied 1-1) \n WAS QUE (leads 2-0) DET (leads 2-0) CAL \n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nToronto Maple Leafs 0 1 1 - 2\nDetroit Red Wings (leads series 2-0) 1 3 2 - 6\n\n1st period: DET, Lidstrom 1 - (Yzerman, Coffey) (pp) 4:06\n\n2nd period: DET, Fedorov 1 - (sh) 0:43\n\t DET, Yzerman 2 - (Coffey, Chiasson) (pp) 8:06\n\t DET, Yzerman 3 - (Coffey, Sheppard) 17:40\n\t TOR, Mironov 1 - (Gill, Gilmour) 19:10\n\n3rd period: TOR, Gilmour 2 - (Anderson) 4:32\n\t DET, Ysebaert 1 - (Kozlov) 5:51\n\t DET, Drake 1 - (Kozlov, Kennedy) 18:33\n\nPowerplay Opportunities-Maple Leafs 1 of 8\n\t\t\tRed Wings 2 of 7\n\nShots on Goal-\tMaple Leafs 10 7 13 - 30\n\t\tRed Wings 16 11 3 - 30\n\nToronto Maple Leafs--Potvin (0-2) (30 shots - 24 saves)\nDetroit Red Wings--Cheveldae (2-0) (30 shots - 28 saves)\n\nATT-19,875\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nSt. Louis Blues (leads series 2-0) 2 0 0 - 2\nChicago BlackHawks 0 0 0 - 0\n\n1st period: STL, Hull 2 - (Brown, Janney) (pp) 7:38\n\t STL, Lowry 1 - (sh) 13:53\n\n2nd period: NONE\n\n3rd period: NONE\n\nPowerplay Opportunities-Blues 1 of 5\n\t\t\tBlackHawks 0 of 6\n\nShots on Goal-\tBlues 9 3 5 - 17\n\t\tBlackHawks 16 19 12 - 47\n\nSt. Louis Blues--Joseph (2-0) (47 shots - 45 saves)\nChicago BlackHawks--Belfour (0-2) (17 shots - 15 saves)\n\nATT-17,339\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nLos Angeles Kings (series tied 1-1) 1 0 3 - 4\nCalgary Flames 0 5 4 - 9\n\n1st period: LAK, Carson 3 - 1:11\n\n2nd period: CAL, Otto 1 - (Roberts, MacInnis) 5:02\n\t CAL, Yawney 2 - (Dahlquist, Ranheim) 8:02\n\t CAL, Reichel 1 - (Fleury) (pp) 10:52\n\t CAL, Nieuwendyk 1 - (Roberts, Musil) 13:47\n\t CAL, Otto 2 - (Dahl) (sh) 19:37\n\n3rd period: LAK, Carson 4 - (Granato, Shuchuk) 5:34\n\t CAL, Reichel 2 - (Fleury, MacInnis) (pp) 7:23\n\t CAL, Paslawski 1 - (Roberts, Nieuwendyk) 8:14\n\t CAL, Fleury 1 - (MacInnis, Nieuwendyk) (pp) 10:37\n\t LAK, Rychel 1 - (Blake) 11:56\n\t LAK, Kurri 1 - (Gretzky, Zhitnik) (pp) 15:22\n\t CAL, Suter 2 - (Skrudland, Berube) 19:15\n\nPowerplay Opportunities-Kings 1 of 7\n\t\t\tFlames 3 of 6\n\nSHots on Goal-\tKings 14 8 9 - 31\n\t\tFlames 9 16 15 - 40\n\nLos Angeles Kings--Hrudey (1-1) (40 shots - 31 saves)\nCalgary Flames--Vernon (1-1) (31 shots - 27 saves)\n\nATT-19,477\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nWinnipeg Jets 0 1 1 - 2\nVancouver Canucks (leads series 2-0) 1 1 1 - 3\n\n1st period: VAN, Ronning 2 - (Courtnall, Linden) 11:37\n\n2nd period: VAN, Courtnall 1 - 6:05\n\t WIN, Domi 1 - (King, Barnes) 6:48\n\n3rd period: WIN, Numminen 1 - (Housley, Selanne) (pp) 0:30\n\t VAN, Bure 1 - (Adams, Craven) 4:01\n\nPowerplay Opportunities-Jets 1 of 4\n\t\t\tCanucks 0 of 3\n\nShots on Goal-\tJets 6 10 6 - 22\n\t\tCanucks 14 9 9 - 32\n\nWinnipeg Jets--Essensa (0-2) (32 shots - 29 saves)\nVancouver Canucks--McLean (2-0) (22 shots - 20 saves)\n\nATT-15,729\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n", "\nI think this guy is going to be just a little bit disappointed. Lemieux\ntwo, Tocchet, Mullen, Tippett, and Jagr. I buzzed my friend because I forgot\nwho had scored Mullen's goal. I said, \"Who scored? Lemieux two, Tocchet,\nTippett, Jagr.\" The funny part was I said the \"Jagr\" part non-chalantly as\nhe was in the process of scoring while I was asking this question!!! :-)\n\nAll in all ABC's coverage wasn't bad. On a scale of 1-10, I give it about\nan 8. How were the games in the Chi/St. Louis/LA area???\n\n\nThat's stupid!!! I'd complain to the television network! If I were to even\nsee a Pirates game on instead of a Penguins game at this time of the year, I\nand many other Pittsburghers would surely raise hell!!!\n\n\nTexas is off to a good start, they may pull it out this year. Whoops! That\nbelongs in rec.sport.baseball!!!", "\n\tI totally agree with each point you made. Jose Viscaino looked\nlike a single A hitter up there. Who swings on 3-1 count with Maddux \npitching and your teams down by a run, and you haven't touched the ball all \nday. I also think too much is made of that lefty-righty thing. Watching\nthe Cubs games I get the feeling Steve Stone knows a lot more about what\nthe Cubs should be doing than Lefebre does. Harry said it best when he\nstated after another terrible Vizcaino at bat-- we can't wait til\nSandberg returns!\n", "For the second straight game, California scored a ton of late runs to crush\nthe Brewhas. It was six runs in the 8th for a 12-5 win Monday and five in\nthe 8th and six in the 9th for a 12-2 win yesterday. Jamie Navarro pitched\nseven strong innings, but Orosco, Austin, Manzanillo and Lloyd all took part\nin the mockery of a bullpen yesterday. How's this for numbers? Maldanado has\npitched three scoreless innings and Navarro's ERA is 0.75. The next lowest\non the staff is Wegman at 5.14. Ouch!\n\nIt doesn't look much better for the hitters. Hamilton is batting .481, while\nThon is hitting .458 and has seven RBI. The next highest is three. The next\nbest hitter is Jaha at .267 and then Vaughn, who has the team's only HR, at\n.238. Another ouch. Looking at the stats, it's not hard to see why the team\nis 2-5. In fact, 2-5 doesn't sound bad when you're averaging three runs/game\nand giving up 6.6/game. \n\nStill, it's early and things will undoubtedly get better. The offense should\ncome around, but the bullpen is a major worry. Fetters, Plesac and Austin gave\nthe Brewers great middle relief last year. Lloyd, Maldanado, Manzanillo, \nFetters, Austin and Orosco will have to pick up the pace for the team to be\nsuccessful. Milwaukee won a number of games last year when middle relief either\nheld small leads or kept small deficits in place. The starters will be okay,\nthe defense will be alright and the hitting will come around, but the bullpen\nis a big question mark.\n\nIn other news, Nilsson and Doran were reactivated yesterday, while William\nSuero was sent down and Tim McIntosh was picked up by Montreal. Today's game\nwith California was cancelled.", "\nThe Phillies finished third 2 years ago.\n\n\nThe Phillies' opponents haven't hit much better", "\nYou know, you're absolutely right. I think we should round up all those\nplayers of European descent and ship 'em back to where they came from. Let's\nsee, with whom should we start? I dunno, Lemieux? Hmmm...sounds like he\nhas *French* blood in him!!! Hey! France is part of Europe! Send that\nEuro-blooded boy back!!!\n\nSheesh.\n\n\nI don't think it would be hard to find some Native Americans (or Native\nCanadians, for that matter) who would dispute your claim to this great \ncontinent of *ours.* Ya see, if you believe the anthropologists, we're *all*\nimmigrants of some sort. If you really don't think that Mogilny, Bure,\nSelanne, et al have improved the NHL, then I'm not sure you understand the\ngame.", "\n\n\nSorry, Nelson, but you forgot to ask me. If you check the THN stats for\nKansas City, you'll find that Larry has been playing for the games, having\nplayed in 8 games in the period covered in the stats between 3/26 and the\n4/16 issue (1-3-4 with 13 PIM). Not exactly invisible.\n\n\nWell, having gotten to a chance to talk to him a few times, this isn't quite\naccurate. He injured his back (a disk injury) and did one stupid thing,\nwhich was to hide it from the Sharks and he tried to play through it because\nhe knew he was on the bubble. The Sharks then sent him to K.C., at which\npoint he disclosed the injury. Since he didn't disclose it, the Sharks and\nhe disagreed about the responsibility and he was suspended for not\nreporting. That was eventually worked out, the Sharks re-instated him as\ninjured and put him into therapy, and when he was able to play then shipped\nhim down to K.C. He fully expects to play in the NHL again, although clearly\nnot with the Sharks (hiding injuries is a stupid no-no, beyond just a\nno-no).\n\nVery nice guy. Always hustled his butt off. He disappeared because he was\nhurt. I expect he'll surface with another team at some point (probably\nanother expansion team), but is likely to be a bubble player for the rest of\nhis career. Has a good work ethic and is good at getting other players\nmotivated. Unfortunately, he played himself out of the Sharks future with a\nbad judgement call.\n\n\n\n\nAlways gave 110%, best work ethic on the club (except maybe Kisio), but\nhustle isn't always enough. His future with the Sharks was made clear to me\none night against the Flames when he went behind the crease and tried to\nhold Joel Otto against the board. He literally had one arm around Otto's\nneck and another wrapped around Otto's stick arm. Otto casually turned\naround and fed the puck in front of the crease for a goal, as though Carter\nwasn't there. Hustle can only cover size so far.\n\nThe Sharks have told me, point blank, that he's gone for good (ditto HUbie\nMcDonough). He was one of the favorites of the staff, but as one said to me\n\"you have to make room for the kids\". Carter, in fact, refused to report to\nK.C. and has been suspended by the Sharks. That might be a defacto\nretirement, but I haven't heard anything official. His only hope in hockey\nnow is the Gulls.\n\n\n\nBecause, at least from the games I saw him in, he was outmatched and looked\nfairly lost on the ice. I think he shows potential, but I didn't think he\nwas quite ready to make the jump to the NHL.\n\n\nAgreed (BTW, I still think a lot of your grades are more based on how you\nwish they'd performed than how they actually performed. I wonder whether you\ncan really judge talent from radio and television, Nelson? I know I have\ntrouble, since you don't see the off-puck action. your views from home and\nmy views from the ice differ in numerous ways)\n\n\n\nCoffee. Coffey is with the Red Wings.\n\n\n\nYou? Nah... \n\nHe was seriously unimpressive, even as a tough guy (his rep). However, as\nfew games as he had in a season that was at that point meaningless, I hate\nto judge the talent too quickly. Butn in Dody's case, I\"m tempted to make an\nexception.\n\nBut I won't.\n", "Here is something crossposted from the AHL mailing list:\t\t\t\n\nIn a discussion between me and Chris Lerch, the subject of Springfield's \n1st round upset of the Providence Bruins\ncame up. Chris basically raised the possibility that the AHL \nhierarchy is biased in favor of the Indians. He noted that the offices\nfor the league are in Spring. and many ex-Indians are working for the AHL.\nFurthermore, he also informed me that back a few years ago in the Cup \nfinals between Roch and Spring, that the Amerks charged favoritism by the office\nand that:\n\n\"...there were little questionable things liket he AHL president and\nstaff attending all games with the Springfield brass, including sitting\nin their box for the game in Springfield and, according to the Rochester\nmedia, openly cheering for Springfield.\"\n\nCertainly this is something that is quite serious if any of this\nis true. I don't know if this is anything more than whining on the\npart of the Amerks (they have pulled this sort of crap against the\nWings before) but if true, this is somthing that seriously raises\nquestions about President Jack Butterfield's leadership.\n\nBTW- This was posted with the permission of Chris", "\n\n *This is what kills me:\n\n*******************************************************************************\nSpeaking of \"die hard\", that's what I did when I read this, died hard\nlaughing!\n\nToronto, to the Cup finals???\n\nFirst of all, has anyone on the planet heard of the team from Detroit? Al\nMorgani (or however you spell the idiot's name) must be from Chicago,\nbecause on ESPN, he said \"it's not even close--Chicago will definatly win\nthe Norris Division in the Playoffs, no other team is close.\" Everyone is\npicking Chicago! I don't get it, he says it's an \"easy choice\"?\nGod, Chicago was 1-4-1 against the Wings, and they won the division by a\npoint or two, followed closely by Toronto, who is also a good team!\nAs for the Leafs beating Detroit--doubt it, but even if they do, they\naren't going to get by Chicago. If (even more amazingly) they get past the\nHawks, they would probably face Vancouver, and lose.\nAs for The Habs reaching the Finals, forget it. Even I, as a devoted Wings\nfan, will watch the Penguins easily three-peat as Cup winners. Lemieux,\nJagr, Tocchet, Stevens, and Barrasso, its a done deal. Sorry Detroit, wait\ntil next year.\nBut hey, these were Paul's picks, and everyone has a right to their own\nopinnions, but the Leafs to the Finals??? Yeah. If they make it there, I'll\nwalk to Toronto to get some tickets, and that's a 700 mile walk! \n\n--Ryan--", "\nBut,\n THEY FACED THE PHILLIES -- A TEAM THAT GOT OFF TO AN 8-1 START.\n\n\n\n\n To be honest, I think the city of Houston loves the new owner. He has\nbrought baseball back to Houston with key acquisitions -- players that\nwere from the Houston area and wanted to play for the Astros. I don't\nthink that too many people are fearful that McLane will meddle in the team\nas he has already admitted that he doesn't know a whole lot about baseball.\nMcLane is a businessman, and doesn't like excuses. He makes a valid point\nthat injuries shouldn't be an excuse to this club. Look at the depth of the\nbench this season.. Canadele can play 7 positions; Bass and James are solid\noutfielders and can hit well too; Uribe is nice to have as well.. The\npitching staff has 6 legitimate starters. We're dealing with a young\nHouston team, so injuries shouldn't play a big role. The only threat is\nthe bullpen -- if Jonesy goes out, we may be in trouble but with the\ntype of starters we have this season, there is less pressure on the pen.", "\n\nAre most players who come up young always good when they're young, or\nlater?\n\n\nDamn. I was afraid you would say that!\n\n\nWell, perhaps if the Braves had no one else worth playing this year it\nwould be Lopez in there. But they do have others worth playing, at\nleast in *their* opinion. And I happen to agree.\n\n\nI can believe that. I'm a newbie here, so I'll take your word. But\nAlomar *is* a fine defensive catcher, which was my statement above.\nThat is a solid reason for bringing him up at a tender age, as long\nas they feel he can also hit a bit. Lopez does not have such a\nconsensus about his defensive prowess, and imho that is enough to\ngive him that dreaded \"seasoning\".\n\n\nSorry. New. Don't know Nichols' Law. Don't believe in catchers'\nera. But I am interested in pitchers' eras with different catchers.\nAny info on that?\n\n\nIn other words, we know more than they do, so the only logic behind \na different decision than we would make must be financial. I presume\nwe feel this way about other franchises than Atlanta, no?\n\n\nWell if it does make organizational sense, one can hardly fault them\nfor their decisions. I mean, please don't tell me how to run my\nbusiness. Especially when I'm being successful.\n\n\nI'm sure you could be right. You could also be smoking some illegal\nsubstance.\n\n(Hey. That's a joke. Don't get offended. Please.)\n\nWell, I can't cite anyone's ethical rectitude because I don't know\nwhat it means. :)\n\nBut again, if it makes organizational sense, then so be it. Baseball\nis a business, and if there is a solid business reason for keeping\nLopez on the farm then that's what the Braves *should* do.\n\nI happen to believe that it's a baseball decision. While you from\nyour armchair may disagee, I don't. I think there is a lot of\nevidence to suggest the decision they made. I predicted it among\nlarge guffaws from several at the start of spring training. I\nthink it is a very *normal* decision to have made. It is certainly\nmore reversible than to have started Lopez in the bigs and have\nreleased one of their catchers. Sure, it may be conservative. It\nmay also be logical. I don't know what ethics have to do with it.\nSeems like pretty good common sense to me.\n\n--\tThe Beastmaster\n\n", "The Isles picked one hell-of-a-time to get their first win all year after being\ndown after 2 periods. The Caps seemed to have the game in hand playing steady\ndefense and getting great goaltending from Tabaracci. The Isles power play\nphilosophy continues to be dump-and-chase which, except for boardaholics like\nFlatley, doesn't work against the Caps. I hope Al realizes this!! They have too\nmany talented finesse players, so why not carry the puck in and set-up??? If\nlast night's game is any omen, the Isles could be on their way to that ole\nchampionship form; COMING from behind late in a game. My advice to the Caps is\nto pounce on those Healy Rebounds. Flatley showed alot of heart by playing the\nlast period and overtime despite an almost swollen-shut left eye injury\nsuffered at the hands of Dale Hunter. Ray Ferraro has arrived just in time for\nthe playoffs showing the fiesty hustle that us Islander fans remember from an \nItalian from the past; JOHN TONELLI!!! It was Tonelli who won a similar game\nagainst the PENS in game 5 on the 82 playoffs. The Isles scored two late third\nperiod goals to send the game into OT tied at 3. In OT, Tonelli scored the game\nwinner to send the Isles to the next round. The Isles have lacked this tenacity\nfor years, but perhaps its BACK! It was good to see the Coliseum packed just\nlike the ole days!!! Good luck to the Isles the rest of the way!!!!!\n\nJohn Scialdone\nSCIALDONE@NSSDCA.GSFC.NASA.GOV", "\nhow do you know this? did lasorda say, before the game, \"here's the\nlineup i'm using. i'm batting strawman fourth because the primadonna\ninsists on batting cleanup\"?\n\nif this is true (note that i don't think it is), lasorda should be\nfired for at least two reasons:\n\n 1) publicly humiliating his players;\n 2) knuckling under to his players wishes.\n\nhowever, i think that the more likely explanation is that lasorda\nwanted strawberry to bat fourth, and that you hate strawberry.", " \n That's because Lankford had a minor injury from a couple of games\nbefore that\n and was day-to-day... only available as a pinchrunner. \n", "I don't actually have the answer to this one.\n\nBosio, after walking the first two batters, retired 27-straight for a\n\"back-end\" perfect game.\n\nHow many other games - including extra inning games - have seen a pitcher\nretire 27 straight, excluding official perfect games?\n\nThe only other instance of this I know about for sure is the famous Ernie\nShore game, which counts as a perfect one according to those goons in\nCooperstown. Shore came into the game when Boston Pitcher Babe Ruth got\nthrown out for arguing over the first-batter walk; Shore picked him off and\nretired 26 straight after that.\n\nMatt Wall * wall@cc.swarthmore.edu * Hey, I gotta job here, OK?", "I was watching the Dodgers/Marlins game yesterday and a couple of\nthings impressed me. \n\nFirst is that the way the sun was shining in Miami, it had a summer\natmosphere in early spring for baseball. In comparison Wrigley Field\nin early April still has a wintry look to it with the dead ivy and\nbundled up fans. \n\nThe second and most important was the fans. I like these guys/gals!\nI will admit I am a football fan first but I still enjoy baseball.\nIt was interesting because most of these fans are only accustomed to\nthe Miami Dolphins. The way they were cheering, I thought it was the\nAFC playoffs. Of course opening day may have A LOT to do with it,\nbut I really got feeling of electricity that I think is lacking with\na lot of baseball fans in other cities. \n\nBaseball certainly needs a charge and I hope these two expansion\nteams bring back some excitement. We'll find out Friday how Denver\nBronco fans respond. ", "\nTypical. Their first attempt at foriegn-policy adventurism, and no one even\nnotices.\n\nCanadians. They can even make balkanization boring.\n\n\n-- ", "\nGrant Fuhr has done this to a lot better coaches than Brian Sutter...", "I like the Clark-WIlliams-Bonds order.\nPitchers can only walk Clark with 2 outs (unlike last year).\n\nWilliams is getting better pitches to hit with Bonds looming\nin the on-deck circle. Since Matt has a terrible batting eye,\nthis helps the Giants a lot.\n\nWhen Bonds gets on base all by himself, he can try to steal 2nd\nand then be driven in with a single by Thompson, Manwaring, or Clayton.\n\nIf you bat Bonds before the other sluggers, then you don't want\nhim to run because a \"caught stealing\" could take you out of a\nbig inning.\n\nAlso Bonds is less in need of protection behind him because he\nis such a good base stealer (a walk is a potential double).\n\nThe only draw back is when Clark and Williams are clogging up the \nbases infront of Bonds... and I think that's a problem the \nGiants will be glad to see especially if Robby Thompson gets hot.", "Last week I posted the ALL-TIME GREATEST PLAYERS (and haphazardly misspelled\nseveral names--SORRY!) This week, it's time for the greatest PEAK players.\nI evaluated the following players on 4 consectutive seasons which constituted\ntheir \"prime\" or \"peak\" years. (3 was too few; 5 seemed to many--so I settled\nfor 4). Sources, as usual, include Total Baseball 1993 and my own (biased)\nopinions.\nHere goes, feel free to comment.\n\n 1. Ted Williams (includes season after war)--missed actual peak years\n 2. Babe Ruth\n 3. Walter Johnson\n 4. Mickey Mantle\n 5. Mike Schmidt (actual peak year shortened by strike)\n 6. Barrry Bonds (currently at peak)\n 7. Honus Wagner\n 8. Ty Cobb\n 9. Tris Speaker\n10. Willie Mays\n11. Lefty Grove\n12. Sandy Koufax\n13. Joe Morgan\n14. Ed Walsh\n15. Christy Mathewson\n16. Lou Gehrig\n17. Jimmie Foxx\n18. Cal Ripken Jr.\n19. Pete Alexander\n20. Cy Young\n21. Tim Raines\n22. Rickey Henderson (again, strike year '81 included)\n23. Carl Yastrzemski\n24. Jackie Robinson\n25. Joe DiMaggio\n26. Rogers Hornsby \n27. George Sisler\n28. Eddie Collins\n29. Hank Aaron\n30. Stan Musial\n31. Joe Jackson\n32. Wade Boggs\n33. Charlie Gehringer\n34. Ernie Banks\n35. Bob Gibson\n36. Carl Hubbell\n37. Robin Yount\n38. Rod Carew\n39. Chuck Klein\n40. Willie McCovey\n41. Frank Robinson\n42. Tom Seaver\n43. Roger Clemens (arguably, still in peak)\n44. Mel Ott\n45. Frank Baker\n46. Nap Lajoie (peak came in suspect league)\n47. Dizzy Trout\n48. George Brett\n49. Mordecai Brown\n50. Ryne Sandberg\n\n1B Peak\n 1) Gehrig\n 2) Foxx\n 3) Sisler\n 4) McCovey\n 5) Greenberg\n 6) Frank Thomas (projected--sorry)\n 7) Dick Allen\n 8) Johnny Mize\n 9) Eddie Murray (yes, Mr.Consistency had a peak)\n10) Bill Terry\n\n2B\n 1) Morgan\n 2) J.Robinson\n 3) Collins\n 4) Hornsby \n 5) Gehringer\n 6) Carew (treated as a 2B, even though played 1B)\n 7) Sandberg\n 8) Bobby Grich\n 9) Nap Lajoie\n10) Bill Herman, Mazeroski (tough call)\n\n3B)\n 1) Schmidt\n 2) Boggs\n 3) F.Baker\n 4) Brett\n 5) Ed Mathews\n 6) Ron Santo\n 7) Harland Clift\n 8) Ken Boyer\n 9) Buddy Bell\n10) Darrell Evans\n\nSS\n 1) Wagner\n 2) Ripken\n 3) Banks\n 4) Yount\n 5) John Lloyd (estimated)\n 6) Arky Vaughan\n 7) Barry Larkin (still in peak?)\n 8) Lou Boudreau\n 9) Ozzie Smith\n10) Joe Sewell\n\nLF\n 1) Williams\n 2) Ba.Bonds\n 3) Raines\n 4) Henderson (actually had 2 peaks; 80-83 & 83-86)\n 5) Yastrzemski\n 6) Musial\n 7) J.Jackson\n 8) Ralph Kiner\n 9) Al Simmons\n10) George Foster\n11) Willie Stargell\n\nCF\n 1) Mantle\n 2) Cobb\n 3) Speaker\n 4) Mays\n 5) DiMaggio\n 6) Oscar Charleston (again, estimated)\n 7) Duke Snider\n 8) Ken Griffey Jr. (personal assumption)\n 9) Kirby Puckett\n10) Richie Ashburn\n11) Dale Murphy (strike season?)\n\nRF\n 1) Ruth\n 2) Aaron\n 3) Klein\n 4) F.Robinson\n 5) Ott\n 6) Roberto Clemente\n 7) Tony Gwynn\n 8) Dave Parker\n 9) Reggie Jackson\n10) Harry Heilmann\n11) Jose Canseco\n12) Darryl Strawberry\n\n C\n 1) Josh Gibson (estimated)\n 2) Mickey Cochrane\n 3) Gary Carter\n 4) Johnny Bench\n 5) Roy Campanella\n 6) Yogi Berra\n 7) Bill Dickey\n 8) Gabby Hartnett\n 9) Elston Howard\n10) Ted Simmons\n11) Joe Torre\n\n P\n 1) W.Johnson\n 2) Grove\n 3) Koufax\n 4) Walsh\n 5) Mathewson\n 6) Alexander\n 7) Young\n 8) Gibson\n 9) Hubbell\n10) Seaver\n11) Clemens\n12) Satchel Paige (estimated)\n13) D.Trout\n14) Juan Marichal\n15) Mordecai Brown\n16) Joe Wood\n17) Dave Steib\n18) Jim Palmer\n19) Bob Lemon\n20) Fergie Jenkins\n\n RP\n 1) Who cares?\n\n\nI hope there are some surprises here: Raines above Muisial? Carter above\n Bench? Ripken above Banks? Bonds above Mays?\nCheck the numbers of each player in comparison to the numbers of the rest\nof the players that year(s), and you'll see that I'm fairly close with\nthis ranking system (which is primarily based on Total Player Rating) for\nfour consecutive years.", "\n\n\nYeah, but first they have to deal with the Devils,\nwho've had their number all year. I'm not saying\nthe Caps aren't a good team (they've been a thorn\non the Habs side for the past 10 years!!!), just\nthat they won't get past NJ...", "Bleep! Bleep! Bleep! The Bruins lost AGAIN in O.T. I can't stand it!\n\nAside from frustrated ravings, I must give Buffalo credit: they are making good \non most of their scoring opportunities, and are playing great defense. Boston\nplayers can't seem to get control of the puck anywhere near the Buffalo net\nexcept for on rare occasions. The Buffalo defense is also doing an excellent\njob clearing away rebounds. Fuhr is playing great when the big save is needed\nbut he's also getting plenty of help.\nBoston has been playing rather well (better than would be indicated by the \nseries score of 3-0) but is lacking that extra drive in the earlier part of the \ngame. As a result, Boston keeps leaving the ice at the end of the 1st period\n2 goals down. This MUST stop if Boston is to have any hope of winning a single\ngame (the outlook for the Bruin's advancement to the second round are quite\nbleak). IMHO, the Bruins NEED to score first. If they can do that, they have\nan excellent chance of winning, since they have outplayed the Sabres in the \n2nd and 3rd periods.\n\n(The scary thing is that I'll be going to grad school in Buffalo next year.\n I'll never cheer for the Sabres... You can't convert me... ^:)\n\n\nMTM3\n", "\n\nI believe he was well out of baseball by the time he died.\n\n\nUh, he also has been charged with chasing his wife in a car, and smashing it\ninto a tree, as well as carrying a loaded firearm in his car. And the \nspeeding reported was over 100 mph; reckless driving.\n\n\nActually, I hadn't heard about this; thanks.\n\n\nI don't know what you were reading or watching, but I sure saw a LOT about \nthat, and about Dykstra's poker games. Most of the writing was along the lines\nof how incredibly stupid and selfish it was, and how he'd hurt the team by\nwracking himself and the catcher up, etc. ESPN raised questions about his\njudgement, etc. The print media here in the SF area questioned why disciplinary\naction wouldn't be taken against Dykstra, and one article pointed out that if\nLenny wanted to kill himself, there were ways that wouldn't endanger other\npeople's lives. Then there was Dykstra himself being quoted on how stupid it\nwas, etc.\n\nMike", "\n The same Bill James? Why do you say that? It sounds like you're suggesting \nBill James had something to do with overhyping the kid to death. Au contraire;\nhe was fairly critical of him after his ROY campaign, noting that he wasn't\nall-world as a catcher or a hitter. He called him basically average when\neveryone *else* in the media was predicting the next Johnny Bench or Roy\nCampanella. \n\n\n Which reports are those? \n\n\n I like Hernandez a lot, but if Piazza can catch the ball, you've gotta play\nhim IMHO. He's a much better hitter, although Hernandez isn't a *bad* hitter.\nRight now, it sounds like Piazza will catch most of the time and Hernandez\nwill be Candiotti's caddy since he can catch the knuckler. As long as they\nplay up to their abilities, the Dodgers could have a very good catching\ntandem. \n\n\n I think both are overrated defensively (see Nichols' Law of catcher\ndefense), but that's something that's difficult to prove or disprove from\nyour viewpoint or mine. About the only tangible thing we can look at is\nopponent's SB%, and that's clouded by how well your pitchers hold runners.\nCatchers ERA is a possibility, but it's subject to way too many biases. \n\n As for them 'playing on a team that is not so much in need of another big\nbat', I disagree here too. About the only chink in the Braves' armor is that\nthey're weak offensively at several positions (CF, C, 2B, SS if Belliard\nplays, 1B unless Bream and Hunter form another super-platoon) and very weak \ndefensively if Blauser plays. I'd like to see the Braves give at least one of\nMel Nieves, Javy Lopez or Chipper Jones a shot, but much like the talent-rich\nJays of recent years they'll be conservative and stick with what they have. \nI'm not saying that's wrong, just conservative. \n ", "\n\nThe last name is Niedermayer, as in New Jersey's Scott's last name, because\n(you guessed it) they are brothers. But Rob Niedermayer is a center, not\na defenseman.\n\nI am not sure that the Sharks will take Kariya. They aren't saying much, but\nthey apparently like Niedermayer and Victor Kozlov, along with Kariya. Chris\nPronger's name has also been mentioned. My guess is that they'll take\nNiedermayer. They may take Pronger, except that they already have too many\ndefensive prospects.", "David Vergolini writes\n\nYeah, if the Tigers can keep scoring 20 runs a game. If I'm reading all this \nwoofing correctly, one midseason slump is going to pull this team out of \ncontention. Like Yogi says, I'll believe when I believe it.\n", "\nFirst, please watch your line lengths. Not everyone has autowrap. \nSecond, Franklin to the rescue! Here's the list:\nPlayer HR SB\nAaron 755 240\nMays 660 338\nFRobinson 586 204\nRJackson 563 228\nWinfield 406 216 *\nDawson 377 304 *\nBaylor 338 285\nBoBonds 332 461\nWynn 291 225\nStrawberry 280 201 *\nMorgan 268 689\nPinson 256 309\nYount 235 247 *\nKGibson 208 253 *\nSandberg 205 297 *\n\nPlayers marked with an * are still active; numbers through 1991. That's only\n15; the 16th is probably Rickey Henderson, who was listed at 184 HR, 994\nSB or George Brett, listed as 186 SB, 291 HR.\n\nThe surprises? Probably Reggie, Bayor, and Wynn for steals. Maybe Morgan (to\na lot of people) for homers. I was kind of surprised to realize that\nSandberg has that many steals, though I wasn't surprised that the number was\n\n Mike Jones | AIX High-End Development | mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com", "When are the Yankees planning on activating Melido Perez? His 15 days on\nthe DL are up today, but are they bringing him back this weekend? ", "\nMinor point: Shea Stadium was designed as a multi-purpose stadium but\nnot with the Jets in mind as the tennant. The New York Football Giants\nhad moved to Yankee Stadium (from the Polo Grounds) in 1958 and was\nhaving problem with stadium management (the City did not own Yankee\nStadium until 1972). The idea was to get the Giants to move into Shea.\nWhen a deal was worked out between the Giants and the Yankees the\nnew AFL franchise, the New York Titans, approached the City about using\nthe new stadium. The Titans were playing in Downing Stadium (where the\nCosmos played soccer in the 70s). Because Shea Stadium was tied into\nthe World's Fair anyway, the city thought it would be a novel idea to\npromote the new franchise and the World's Fair (like they were doing\nwith the Mets). So the deal was worked out.\n\n\nI'm under the impression that when Murph says it, he means it! As a\nregular goer to Shea, it is not a bad place since they've cleaned and\nrenovated the place. Remember, this is its 30th Year!", "\n: That's not inner calm. It's boredom, and it's being spoiled. The Arena's\n: been as quiet as a church on many nights this year; too many of us just\n: take winning for granted. It's been seemingly forever since the team\n: lost, and we've forgotten what it's like to feel real excitement and\n: surprise at victory.\n\nAt least last night there was some excitement. The Pens \ndidn't have it wrapped up before the game was half over like \nthe previous two games. I'm not sure if NJ just rose up and \nplayed better or if the Penguins just started to play down \nsomewhat. Probably it was somewhere in between. New Jersey \nseemed much more aggressive last night in the Pens end. They \ndid much more swarming around, which at least kept an \nelement of suspense in the game. No question that Billington \nhelped make it more interesting also. Claude Lemieux didn't \nhelp the cause any though, with his ejection early in the \ngame. So, who's going to start in the Devils goal for the \n\"final\" game Sunday? ;-) Sorry. I couldn't help myself.\n", "\n\tClose Roger, but no banana, er avocado or is it artichoke ?!?\n\n\tGeracie in the Murky News said Kingston will be the new 49ers\n\tquarterback. I'm still trying to determine if he is kidding\n\tor not :). If I happen to pound down enuff pints sometime \n\tthis week I'll go back and check what stooper idiot Purdy\n\tsaid in his column. That ought to be worth a few Leafs, I\n\tmean Laughs. If I'm really depressed I'll read the SF Comicle.\n\n\tmark\n\n just say", "\nWe're probably stuck, as Mike Burger pointed out that the baseball\ndeal was made far in advance of the NHL contract. WABC did the same\nthing; they were thankful that the Devils were wiped out by 9:30,\nbecause they had to switch over to Yankees baseball. The proof of \nthe reasons for this is left to the reader ...\n\nIt's too bad, but I wonder if ESPN is stuck with other US local team\ncoverage for their alternate games? We got NESN's coverage of the\nBruins-Sabres with the Boston homers ... they were awful!!! I've read\nthat Derek Sanderson is the colour analyst ... I wonder if he spent\nhis early years after hockey as an intern at PRAVDA before landing\nthis job? *Everything* had to be twisted into something good to say\nabout the Bruin(s) involved ... not even Bill Wirtz's shills on SC\nChicago (Pat Foley, Dale Tallon) were this bad. And just to be fair,\nSC used to take their feed from ESN (Empire Sports Network), the Sabre\nhomers and they were horrible too ... but they were spacy.\n\nFrom the CNN highlights, I hear Chris Cuthbert's voice from the CBC\ncoverage of the Habs-Nords series. Too bad that we couldn't get it\non ESPN, with all due respect to the Sabres and the Bruins.\n\nMike Emrick is substituting on the Devils SCNY team for Gary Thorne.\nMike was the original Devils TV play-by-play announcer, by the way.\n\ngld", "After watching the Pengiuns all year (and as many other teams as\npossible), I've really noticed an increase in Tom Barasso's cheap shots\nthis year (and not noticed a corrsponding increase with other\ngoaltenders). I've also noticed that he usually gets away with it. Just\nas examples last night, I noticed him elbowing Scott Stevens in the\nhead, which basically started the whole shoving match that got Stevens\n(Scott) and Tocchet 2 minute minors. He also KICKED John McLean. Of\ncourse he wasn't called for that. Isn't kicking an automatic match\npenalty and 10 game suspension? I think Glenn Anderson got one a few\nyears ago for kicking Gaetan Duchesne in the chest. There's no doubt in\nmy mind that Barasso is the dirtiest golatender since Hextall. He's also\nvery good.\n\nHow about that Tocchet head-butt? Is there an automatic susppension that\ngoes along with a (non-kicking) match penalty? I can't remember anymore.", "-=> Quoting Cire Y. Trehguad to All <=-\n : >And, while we are on the subject, has a captain ever been traded, \n : >resigned, or been striped of his title during the season? Any other \n : >team captain trivia would be appreciated.\n CYT> ;\n CYT> : Wasn't Ron Francis captain of the Whalers when he was traded to\n CYT> : Pittsburgh?\n\n CYT> And Rick Tochett was the captain of the Flyers when traded to the Pens\n CYT> recently...\n\n CYT> Caleb\n\n CYT> And let us not forget that the New Jersey Devils traded\n CYT> captain Kirk Muller for Stephen Richer and Chorske\n\n CYT> Man I hated that trade!\n\n\n Well as for team captains being traded\n in there first year in the NHL the\n Edmonton Oilers traded their captain\n Ron Chiperfield to the Quebec Nordique\n right at the trading deadline for \n Goaltender Ron Lowe\n In their second year of existence\n The Edmonton Oilers again right at the trade \n deadline traded their captain, this time \n B.J. McDonald to the Vancouver Canucks\n along with the rights to winger Ken \n Berry for Garry Lariviere and the rights \n to Lars Gunner Petterson \n \n as for more captain trivia, the next Edmonton\n captain was Lee Fogilin who was later traded to\n the Buffalo Sabres, after him was Wayne Gretzky\n who was traded to L A, then came Kevin Low who\n only this year was traded to the N Y Rangers\n so that every captain the Edmonton Oilers have had\n has been traded.\n\n The present captain is Craig McTavish and we'll\n just have to wait and see.\n\n\n well talk to you later\n\n Steve\n", " \n \nNo....Hal McRae is the worst manager in baseball. I've never seen a guy who\ncan waste talent like he can. One of the best raw-talent staffs in the league,\nand he's still finding a way to lose. I'll be surprised if he makes it through\nthe next 2 weeks, unless drastic improvement is made.", "Picture if you will, the Habs going into the last couple minutes of the\ngame, leading 2-0. The Nords get a power play, pull Hextall, and get\na goal. Bout a minute later, they get another one. Then they win in\novertime......\n\nA bad dream?.......\n\nHow's that Red Hot Chili Peppers song go...\n\"Give it away,give it away, give it away now....\"\n\nOh well. Suppose I can always watch the Leafs win tomorrow night....\n (smilies.....)\n\nAm I the only female hockey fan in the world?", "\nOkay, I think we all agree that singles hitters should take a\nstrike or two and try to get on base any way they can.\n\nSo the \"No Power/Impatient\" guys have no excuse.\nThe \"No Power/Patient\" guys are doing the right thing.\n\nNow the \"Impatient/Power\" guys (how could you leave out the Big Cat?).\nWould these guys have a better slugging percentage if they took\nmore pitches? Perhaps, but I doubt it. If you tell Joe Carter\nto go up there and take a few pitches, he will draw more walks, but\nhe also won't hit as many frozen ropes into the bleachers because\nhe is more likely to hold back on a pitch that he used to drive.\n\nThe \"Patient/Power\" guys? Joe Morgan had a small strike zone and\nRickey Henderson has \"a strike zone the size of Hitler's heart\" \nso they get their walks based on the small zone.\n\nLook at the other 5 guys: Thomas, Bonds, McGwire, Ruth and Williams. Wow!\nA lot of pitchers would rather nibble at the corners and maybe\nwalk these guys that to throw a clear strike to them.\nThe pitchers would do better (in my opinion) by just coming after\nthem with a good fastball for a strike on the first pitch, but pitchers\nwould rather nibble, go 2-0 or 3-1 and then get hurt.", "the owners are whining about baseball not being popular among a\nlarge enough portion of the population, and have suggested various\n\"remedies\", such as shortening the game or trying to convince us that\n\"smoke'embake'emdominatebysheerintimidation\" is an accurate description\nof what is, essentially, a laid-back game.\n\nforget those lame ideas. here is my new and exciting two-point plan to\ngenerate interest in baseball among the masses.\n\npoint one: sex.\npoint two: violence.\n\nlet's face it, sex and violence are the only things that sell in\namerica. here's how we can implement them in the game:\n\nsex: cheerleaders, cheerleaders, and more cheerleaders. dancing on top\n of the dugouts. bringing hot dogs to the umps during the seventh\n inning stretch. running up and down the stands. (the south bend\n white sox actually do this).\n\nviolence: baseball players are such utter wuss boys. the pitcher beans\n the batter, and both benches empty in what is called a \"bench-clearing\n brawl\". EVERYBODY JUST STANDS THERE AND LOOKS AT EACH OTHER. stand,\n stand, stand. look, look, look. ho, hum. then, the bullpens\n come running in. when they reach the \"fight\", they just stand\n there, too.\n\n anybody coming off the bench who does not throw at least one punch\n should be suspended and fined. further, the bullpens should fight\n it out in the outfield, so as not to waste time and energy running\n to the infield.\n\nfootball: sex, violence.\nbasketball: sex, violence.\nhockey: violence.\nbaseball: \"da pastime of da nayshun!\" - yawn.", "Once, on Jeopardy, the category was \"Jewish Sports Heros,\" believe it\nor not. The answer was, \"This pitcher had four no-hitters with the\nDodgers in the 60s.\" The contestant said, \"Who is Hank Aaron?\" Alex\nTrebek said something like, \"I don't think Hank Aaron was a pitcher.\"", "Not to mention, Mr. Francis is an incredibly nice person. Over Christmas\nbreak, a friend of mine had a little Xmas gathering. The two of us drove\nto Ron's house. While I stayed in the car out of shyness, my friend went\nto the door and rang the bell. Ron answered and my friend introduced\nhimself. He then proceeded to invite Francis to the party. Ron declined\nbecause he \"had to watch his daughter.\" He then reached out and shook my\nfriend's hand! I know this isn't r.s.b., but I don't think Barry Bonds\nwould be this polite in this situation.", "[argument over \"reasonable\" players and umpires deleted]\n\n\n\nYes, but the baseball rules say you can only appeal a ball and not a\nstrike. There was no decision made by the umpire regarding an appeal.\nOnce he called it a strike the call could not be changed. \n\nI thought that the umpire did the right thing.\n\n", "My brother purchased baseball tickets for Texas Rangers vs Toronto\nBluejays in July, but he was unable to get vacation days to get there. \n\nIs anyone interested in purchasing the following:\n\nArlington Stadium\nArlington,Texas, Texas Rangers vs. Toronto Bluejays\n\nThursday, July 22 Friday, July 23\n4 tickets, section 103 \"Helmet Night\"\n$14 each 4 tickets, section 305\n $14 each\n\nIf you want them all, the total is $112.00\n\nPlease contact me over e-mail, or directly to my brother:\n\nRandy Hollister\n19 Rosemont Lane\nStreator, IL 61364\n815/672-5265\n\nMy brother would be eternally grateful for someone to purchase these tickets!\n\nThank you!", "During the local Rockies broadcast the other day Don Baylor\nwent out to bring in a relief pitcher and a graphic came up\non the screen that it was the \"so and so sponsored\" pitching \nchange. I saw another game where the pinch hitter was sponsored.\n\nAt other times during the game Rockies announcer Duane Kuiper was\nsetting up the strategy that the defense might use with the expectation\nthat Charlie Jones would jump in and discuss the situation. But\nwhat does Charlie do, he read's a beer advertisement and leaves\nDuane hanging. Duane's strategy proved prophetic.\n\nThese examples happen over and over on radio and T.V. braodcasts\nmaking them sometimes very boring to listen to.\n\nI guess it's just a matter of time before a player sells his name\nto Budweiser, Nike, etc.\n\nI don't think it will be long until we hear: \"Nike Budweiser drills\nit deep to left field, Chevrolet goes back, back, it's gone! The Apple\nMacintoshes (formerly the Boston Red Sox) are the 1998 World Champions!!!\"\n\nBack to work,\n\nAnthony M. Jivoin\nNational Center for Atmospheric Research\nRSF/ATD - FL1\nP.O. Box 3000\nBoulder, CO 80307", "I'm sure all of you have heard of the extraordiary start by rookie\nJ.T. Snow of the California Angeles. Other than the fact that his\nfather was a star receiver with the L.A. Rams and is now a radio\npersonality in Los Angeles and J.T. came from the Yankees organization\nI don't know much about J.T. If anyone has info and background on \nthe young fenom....please post.\n\nBy the way, for those of you not following his exploits he has hit\nfour home runs in three days. Two last night. He has also delivered\nthe winning hit a couple of times for the Angeles in this young season.\n\nThanks...", "\nThe Phillies have won two games back to back in extra innings. Last\nnight's game was hard fought. The game in Chicago should have been a\nblow out. All in all these two games show a different Phillies team.\nIn past seasons they tended to always be on the short end of 1 run\ngames. I don't know how many times I saw them losing by only 1 run.\nIf they were able to win most of those, they might have been more of\na contending team. They are 3-0 so far in extra innings. And of\ncourse, they are 10-3.\n", "\nChelios is by far the MVP on Chicago...\n\n\nManson, by his own admission, had a terrible year...the Oilers\ndon't really have a team MVP...by default, it should go to Craig\nMacTavish. Shjon Podein was the biggest surprise...Tikkanen the\nbiggest disappointment.\n\n\nTinordi was back by mid-season last year...and when he plays he is the MVP.\n\n\nKing had a great year last year also.\n\n\nHow can Kovalev be a surprise?\n\n\nFence-sitting...look at Philly's record with Eric and without...\nthere is no doubt. Soderstrom is probably the biggest surprise.\n\n\nTocchet had a near 100 point season in Philly with Mike Bullard as\nhis center...why shouldn't he be able to do that with Mario?\n\n\nReally Joseph deserves the MVP nod.\n", "\nHis designated point-getter remarks were not only meant for Lemieux,\nbut for Gretzky, Bure, etc. etc. .... and he made those particular\nremarks last December before Lemieux was diagnosed with Hodgkin's,\nand as the Leafs started their second half roll, and before\nGilmour's great season was being recognized by many people.", "\t\t ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nIs this Tony Esposito? If memory serves me correctly, Chicago. God I\nhope I am right, otherwise I will never hear the end of it. ;-)\n\n--\n Keith Keller\t\t\t\tLET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!\n\t\t\t\t\t\tLET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!\n\tkkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu\t\tIVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!", "\n\nAnd last year the Capitals had the Pens number up until about game 3 of the playoffs.\n\n\n", "That's very true. I live in Richmond, home of the AAA Richmond\nBraves, and they have this guy Ryan Klesko who hit 17 HR's at home\nlast year. Now that doesn't sound like a whole lot, BUT the way the\n\"Diamond\" is built, Home runs are a rarity. In fact, Ron Gant,\nBrian Hunter and David Justice all proved they could hit in\nRichmond. When they were sent to the majors, they never came back.\nIf you can hit in Richmond, you can hit anywhere. ", "Cardinals\nfor poor\n\nWithout opening this up for a sabermetric flame war, I would like to\nquestion the notion that \"sitting a rested player down\" has any real\neffect on his long-term performance. Sure, if a man is tired and needs\nreal rest, then taking a break might be a constructive act. Perhaps if\na man is mentally \"strained\", then sitting him down might help to the\nextent that that helps him relax. But I would like to suggest that\nin the long run, players do slump, and benching is probably irrelevant.", "\nSigh. Here we go again. \n\n\nMust I? If I were to say that batting average is a predictor that \ncan be used to judge which of two hitters is more likely to get a\nhit on a particular plate appearance, is that only valid if I can\ndefine the skill in hitting a baseball? That's all I've said, \nexcept I used the smaller sample of batting average in clutch situations.\n\n\nI did not say I could predict the future. I've suggested that the\nstatistic is not necessarily meaningless. Here's the data for this\nsituation:\n\n\t\tNon-Clutch\t\t\tClutch\t \n\t\tAB\tH\tBA\t\tAB\tH\tBA\n\nSabo\t\t1539\t452\t.294\t\t259\t59\t.228\nSamuel\t\t1564\t383\t.245\t\t278\t83\t.299\t\n\n\nIf you were to have been the Reds manager at that time, I assume you\nwould have had some basis for letting Sabo hit rather than pinch-\nhitting Samuel. I'm sure some of that basis would have utilized\nprior performance. You just wouldn't have used this particular\naspect of prior performance. Is this not correct?\n\n\n\n\nOne more time. I did *not* claim to be able to predict the future.\nI said that I accept the above data as an indication that Samuel would\nhave had a better chance for success in that situation than Sabo.\n\nAnd I am not dismissing your work. I'm stating my opinion.\nYou are saying that your work renders any opinion to the contrary\ninvalid, so that the retention of that opinion is some kind of insult\nto your work.\n\n\n\nI did not say that clutch-hitting is well defined.\n\n\tI said that the data is significant to me.\n\nI did not say that it is a consistent skill.\n\n\tI have said that it is an indicator of performance under a\n\tcertain set of circumstances.\n\t\n\n\n\nAnd, [big sigh]\n\n\nI have NOT\n\tNOT\n\t NOT\n\t NOT\n\t NOT\n\t NOT\n\t NOT EVER called you or anyone else on r.s.b. \"stupid\".\n\n\nIt is nice, however, to see that you will consider the possibility\nthat you actually could have some preconceived biases.\n\n\n\nAh. I knew we could get to the name calling. And there's that word\nyou like so much.\n\n\n\nWait a minute. I thought I first had to define clutch hitting.\nDo I, or don't I?\n\n\nI made two statements in my post.\n\n1.\tI am not convinced of your conclusions regarding clutch hitting.\n\n2.\tI would have hit for Sabo.\n\n\nAs for #2, many of us make a number of written statements through \nthis media about what we think will happen in baseball. I'm not\nshy about it. I'll make the statement again. I believe that by\nseason's end that Chris Sabo's batting average in clutch situations\nwill be significantly lower than his batting average in non-clutch\nsituations. I can't prove that it will happen, so I guess we'll \njust have to wait and see.\n\n\n- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -\nHere's another one for you. In 1989 - 1991 Joe Carter's batting\naverage in clutch situations was significantly below his batting\naverage in non-clutch situations each year. I presume you think\nthis is random. \n\nNon-Clutch:\t1585 AB\t\t411 H\t\t.259\nClutch:\t\t 338 AB\t\t 68 H\t\t.201\n\nSo what could we expect in 1992 from Mr. Carter?\n\nWell, his composite BA through 1989 was .268; through 1990 was\n.262; through 1991 was .263, so I think we have a pretty good\nidea of what kind of batting average he can produce. In 1992\nhe hit .264. Not surprising, huh? Also in 1992: \n\nNon-Clutch:\t 536 AB\t\t144 H\t\t.269\nClutch:\t\t 86 AB\t\t 20 H\t\t.233\n\nNo, this doesn't prove any overall statistical trend that can\nbe used to predict future performance across the breadth of \nmajor league ballplayers. It just makes me think that in 1993\nJoe Carter's batting average in the clutch is not going to be\nas high as his ba in non-clutch situations.\n- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -\n \nAs for #1 (above), I have plenty of company. John Dewan of STATS,INC. is\nthe editor of The Scouting Report wherein the statistics regarding\nclutch hitting are compiled, reported and referenced in the text.\nBill James makes numerous references to a player's ability to hit\nwell in the clutch. I am not saying that I can predict the future\nany more than they are. You (and others) are saying that your\nwork renders their statements (and mine) meaningless. I don't \naccept that, which in your words proves that I am a \"total idiot\".\n\n\n\"Stupid\". \"Total idiot\". \n\nMy, my. Such hostility.\n\n\n\n--\tThe Beastmaster\n", "\n\nLou Gehrig, IRONMAN \n", "My dad has always blamed the Phillies collapse in '64 on me... On Sept 21, 1964, the Phillies had something like a 9 game lead with 12 to play. I was born on Sept 21, 1964. The Phils proceeded to lose something like 10 straight while the Cards won 10 straight (does anyone know hte exact numbers?), and a pennant was blown. To this day my dad likes to remind me that it all began when I was born!", "\nWood played most of his junior career in Seattle. He was one\nof the leading scorers on a mediocre team when he was traded away in\n1992. He rarely lost a fight and was one of the toughest players in\nthe WHL.\n\nHowever, I was extremely surprised when he was drafted, especially in\nthe third round. He certainly didn't look like NHL material...", "\n\nI am sure some bashers of Pens fans are pretty confused about the lack\nof any kind of posts about the recent Pens massacre of the Devils. Actually,\nI am bit puzzled too and a bit relieved. However, I am going to put an end\nto non-PIttsburghers' relief with a bit of praise for the Pens. Man, they\nare killing those Devils worse than I thought. Jagr just showed you why\nhe is much better than his regular season stats. He is also a lot\nfo fun to watch in the playoffs. Bowman should let JAgr have a lot of\nfun in the next couple of games since the Pens are going to beat the pulp out of Jersey anyway. I was very disappointed not to see the Islanders lose the final\nregular season game. PENS RULE!!!\n\n", "While I enjoy the trend towards the more classic style of uniform - \nand I disagree with the person who wants a return to the non-gray road \nuniforms - it should be remembered that one of the, if not THE reason \nfor the redesigning of uniforms, especially hats (re: the new road all \ngreen A's caps and the cardinal navy blue road cap), is the marketing \nmoney to be made in sales of new merchandise. ", "\n\tThe subject line says it all. What is the rule that qualifies\na pitcher as making a save?\n\n", "\nHow was this trade bad? I seem to recall Ratelle and Middleton making a pretty\ngood centre - right wing combination, and the Bruins also got Brad Park in the\ndeal (and they also lost Vadnais and somebody else). After the trade, the \nBruins were in two finals and one semi-final, all of which, of course, they \nlost to Montreal (which should please you to no end). I doubt, however, keeping\nEsposito would have made a difference in those series, as he did not for\nthe Rangers in '79 (or any of his years in Boston, for that matter).\n\nRiston\n-- \nRiston", "Can some on e give me some stats on Forsrg in the World Championships\n\nIf sao mail to ua256@freenet.victoria.bc.ca\n", "Greetings!\n\nSteve Summers and the Chief were on 48 Hours last night shmoozing\nsports. I unfortunately missed it. Those of you who saw it, can\nyou please provide a synopsis.\n\nThanx.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\nThe Czar of Mainframe Computing \nMcGill University\n\n---> I'M TOO SEXY FOR COBOL.\n\n---> Habs...it doesn't look good!\n\n---> Let's Go Expos!\n ======================================\n | Peter Peter Pumkin Eater, |\n | Knew a chick but couldn't meet her.|\n | Saw her brother one fine day, |\n | Sucked his cock now he's gay! |\n | --Andrew Dice Clay |\n ======================================", "\nIndeed, if the color teal on a team's uniforms is any indication of the\nfuture, the Marlins are in dire trouble! Refer to the San Jose Sharks for\nproof... But I have hope for the Marlins. I was a sometime member of the\nRene Lachemann fan club at the Oakland Coliseum, and have a deep respect\nfor the guy. He's a gem. And, of course, Walt Weiss gives that franchise\nclass. But yeah... whoever designed those uniforms was guilty of a paucity\nof style and imagination. Ugghhh!", "Well, thanks to everyone who has entered so far. There are at least 40\nentries, and hopefully more people will enter before the deadline, which\nis 7:30 pm Today, Sunday, April 18, 1993! In the interest of fairness,\nsince I will win anyway, I feel it is only right to actually tell everyone\nmy picks, so that you all won't cry \"rigged\" after I declare myself the\nwinner. Here they are:\n\n\n\tSeries\t\t\tYour Pick\t\tGames\n\n Division Semifinals\n\nPittsburgh-New Jersey\t\tPittsburgh\t\t5\nWashington-NY Islanders\tNY Islanders\t\t6\n\nBoston-Buffalo\t\t\tBoston\t\t\t5\nQuebec-Montreal\t\t\tQuebec\t\t\t7\n\nChicago-St. Louis\t\tChicago\t\t\t4\nDetroit-Toronto\t\t\tDetroit\t\t\t6\n\nVancouver-Winnipeg\t\tWinnipeg\t\t7\nCalgary-Los Angeles\t\tCalgary\t\t\t7\n\n Division Finals\n\nPatrick\t\t\t\tPittsburgh\t\t6\nAdams\t\t\t\tQuebec\t\t\t7\nNorris\t\t\t\tChicago\t\t\t7\nSmythe\t\t\t\tCalgary\n\n Conference Finals\n\nWales\t\t\t\tPittsburgh\t\t5\nCampbell\t\t\tChicago\t\t\t4\n\n\nStanley Cup winner\t\tPittsburgh\t\t6\n\n--\n Keith Keller\t\t\t\tLET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!\n\t\t\t\t\t\tLET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!\n\tkkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu\t\tIVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!", "\nDespite walks and loses, Ryan deserves to be in the Hall of Fame (IMHO)\nbased only on his ho-hitters. The strike-out records are an extra.\n\nWhat do people think about Andre \"400 HR\" Dawson for the HOF?\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nName: Ken Kubey or QB | Reading, editing or printing of this text\nAddress: kubey@sgi.com | without the express written consent of\nDisclaimer: the usual | Major League Baseball is prohibited.", "\nLosers like us? You are the fucking moron who has never heard of the Western\nBusiness School, or the University of Western Ontario for that matter. Why \ndon't you pull your head out of your asshole and smell something other than\nshit for once so you can look on a map to see where UWO is! Back to hockey,\nthe North Stars should be moved because for the past few years they have\njust been SHIT. A real team like Toronto would never be moved!!!\n\nAndrew--\n\n\n", "Here's a summary of Don Cherry's Coach's Corner from April 23, 1993.\nIt was taken from a tape delay of a Vancouver-Winnipeg game, but\nit was filmed during the Toronto-Detroit game that night. I think\nit was also shown during the Calgary-LA game. \n\n(Warning... Anti-fighting people may want to skip this post.)\n\nTopics\n------\n\nDon's Tie, Doug Gilmour, Wings/Leafs, Quebec/Montreal, Boston/Buffalo,\nWendel Clark, Fighting and Stickwork.\n\nEpisode Summary\n---------------\n\nOnce again, the episode started with a shot of Don's tie... This\nwas a different tie than last time. Don pointed out some of the\ncharacters on the tie, but gave them different names... Felix the\nCat (Sylverster), Maclean (Daffy Duck), etc.\n\nRon Maclean asked Don what he thought of the current Wings-Leafs\ngame. Don thought it was good. Burns told the Leaf players \"They\nwon in their building, we're going to win in ours\".\n\nDon then began to praise Gilmour again. Don pointed out that Gilmour\nhas never got less than 2 points or a goal in any game since he\ngot 5 points in a game against St. Louis. (Don also claims that\nhe gave a lot of encouragement to Gilmour, which was partly responsible\nfor his good play.) Several clips were then shown of Gilmour\nfrom the series... A hit on Constantinov, and a pass to Andrewchuk\nresulting in a goal.\n\nOn the game itself, the Wings were taking a lot of penalties in\nthe first period. The Wings have enough talent to score short handed\nhowever, and when the Leafs get a power play, Coach Burns tells\nthe Leaf players \"Don't let them score on you\".\n\nRon brought up the previous Quebec-Montreal game. [Note: Montreal\nwon that game in overtime, despite having a possible game winner\ndisqualified because it was batted in with a high stick.] Don\nthought the high stick was obvious, even without the use of\ninstant replay.\n\nOn the Buffalo-Boston series [Note: Buffalo is currently winning\nthe series 3-0], Don gave full credit to Goaltender Grant Fuhr.\nFuhr should be getting 1/2 the team's playoff checks for his\nplay.\n\nWendel Clarke has recently been criticized for his performance\nduring the Detroit-Toronto series. Don defended him, by saying\nthat he can't play the way he should, because of the league's\nnew rules. \"This used to be a rough and tough league... Now its\nall hack and slash.\" Don lays the blame on Gil Stien for the\nproblems.\n\nDon's opinions on fighting and stickwork are shared by Wings\nGM and coach Bryan Murray. A clip from a news conference by Murray\nwas shown, in which Murray made statements claiming the elimination\nof fighting increases stickwork. Don also read a newspaper article\nin which Murray makes the following statements: \"Players don't fight\nbecause they're afraid of getting thrown out of the game as instigator.\nInstead, they settle grudges by getting their sticks and slicing\neach other. Is this what the fans want to see? I guarantee there\nwouldn't be as many slashes if fighting were kept in the game.\"\n\nDon warned league commisioner Gary Bettman to \"smarten up\" with\nfighting in hockey. He went on to say that before, there used\nto be one guy cut with a high stick in a series. Now, with no fights,\nsomeone gets cut every period.\n\nRating\n------\nTypical anti-fighting posturing, but here Don's opinion is supported\nby Murray.", "How about Brooks Robinson's last homerun ever? #268 came on 4-19-77 at\nMemorial Stadium with one out and two on in the bottom of the 10th inning.\nLarry Harlow was due up, but Brooks pinch-hit a 3-2 pitch from Dave LaRoche\ninto the left field bleachers for a 6-5 win.", "\nI think Murray has done a great job. He's picked up Ciccarelli,\nSheppard, Ysebaert, Howe, Coffey, and Riendeau (plus some depth players) \nwithout giving up anything the Wings needed or any of his top prospects.\nAll of this in three years. Has anyone done better?\n\nThe year before he took over, the Wings didn't even make the playoffs.\nThere was about a year and a half during Demers' stint that the Wings\ndid OK, but that was due to Demers' motavational skills and clutch\nand grab style. They didn't have much talent.\n\nGerald, Murray wasn't responsible for Primeau (although I'm not\nready to admit that's a horrible pick). They hired him after the\ndraft (which has never made sense to me). His first pick was\nLapointe.\n\nRon ", "\n I'd like to echo these sentiments. This is the worst coverage I can \n ever remember seeing on CBC. As soon as the game ends, I can count to 30,\n and by that time, they've signed off the air. No post game interviews,\n no updating of late scores, nothin'. TSN is really putting CBC to \n shame. I only hope the later round coverage improves, I mean, who\n really wants to see CBC PrimeTime News instead of hockey.\n\n My $.02,\n Darren\n", "Disclaimer -- This is for fun.\n\nIn my computerized baseball game, I keep track of a category called\n\"stolen hits\", defined as a play made that \"an average fielder would not\nmake with average effort.\" Using the 1992 Defensive Averages posted\nby Sherri Nichols (Thanks Sherri!), I've figured out some defensive stats\nfor the leftfielders. Hits Stolen have been redefined as \"Plays Kevin\nBass would not have made.\"\n\nOK, I realize that's unfair. Kevin's probably the victim of pitching staff,\nfluke shots, and a monster park factor. But let's put it this way: If we\nreplaced every leftfielder in the league with someone with Kevin's 49.4% out\nmaking ability, how many extra hits would go by?\n\nTo try and correlate it to reality a little more, I've calculated Net\nHits Stolen, based on the number of outs made compared to what a league\naverage fielder would make. By the same method I've calculated Net Extra \nBases (doubles and triples let by).\n\nFinally, I throw all this into a a formula I call Defensive Contribution, or\nDCON :->. Basically, it represents the defensive contribution of a player.\nI add this number to OPS to get DOPS (Defense + Onbase Plus Slug), which\nshould represent the player's total contribution to the team. So don't\ntake it too seriously. The formula for DCON appears at the end of this\narticle.\n\nThe short version -- definition of terms\nHS -- Hits Stolen -- Extra outs compared to Kurt Stillwell\nNHS -- Net Hits Stolen -- Extra outs compared to average fielder\nNDP -- Net Double Plays -- Extra double plays turned compared to avg fielder\nNEB -- Net Extra Bases -- Extra bases prevented compared to avg. fielder\nDCON -- Defensive Contribution -- bases and hits prevented, as a rate.\nDOPS -- DCON + OPS -- quick & dirty measure of player's total contribution.\n\nNational League\n\nName HS NHS NEB DCON DOPS\nGonzalez, L. 63 28 20 .192 .866\nGilkey, B. 52 23 14 .150 .941\nClark, G. 46 11 11 .065 .726\nAlou, M. 20 3 12 .052 .835\nBonds, B. 54 9 -7 .019 1.099\nMay, D. 21 0 -7 -.020 .659\nGant, R. 31 -5 -2 -.021 .715\nBass, K. 0 -24 -4 -.126 .600\n\nOrdered by DOPS\n\n1.099 Bonds\n .941 Gilkey\n .866 Gonzalez\n .835 Alou\n .726 Clark\n .718 *NL Average*\n .715 Gant\n .659 May\n .600 Bass\n\n\nAmerican League\n---------------\n\nName HS NHS NEB DCON DOPS\nRaines, T. 53 22 20 .111 .896\nAnderson, B. 65 30 8 .102 .924\nHenderson, R. 43 20 4 .101 .984\nVaughn, G. 55 27 -3 .095 .817\nGladden, D. 25 4 8 .038 .699\nHall, M. 29 6 -2 .017 .756\nMack, S. 38 6 -8 .005 .866\nPolonia, L. 10 -11 10 -.019 .647\nMcReynolds, K. 13 -8 -9 -.064 .711\nMaldanado, C. 9 -21 -12 -.105 .714\nReimer, K. 5 -18 -16 -.102 .671\n\n\nOrder by DOPS\n\n.984 Henderson\n.924 Anderson\n.896 Raines\n.866 Mack\n.817 Vaughn\n.756 Hall\n.733 *AL Average*\n.714 Maldanado\n.711 McReynolds\n.699 Gladden\n.671 Reimer\n.647 Polonia\n\nMore discussion --\n\nDCON formula: ((NHS + NDP)/PA) + ((NHS + NDP + NEB)/AB)\nWhy such a bizzare formula? Basically, it's designed to be added into the\nOPS, with the idea that \"a run prevented is as important as a run scored\".\nThe extra outs are factored into OBP, while the extra bases removed are \nfactored into SLG. That's why I used PA and AB as the divisors.\n\nFor more discussion see the post on Hits Stolen -- First Base 1992\n-- \nDale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Baseball fanatic", "\nNot nearly as angry as I was to have set the VCR yesterday only to get\nhome to find the Bruins VS Buffalo - that's what I get for reading the\nTV section and not the sports section for what game will be aired.\n", "\n\nIt has been announced that the Senators will move their AHL franchise to\nCharlottetown, P.E.I. (Prince Edward Island), not New Brunswick.", "-- \n ____\n Y_,_|[]| Ernest Stalnaker\n {|_|_|__| jcs@sage.cc.purdue.edu\n //oo--OO ...!pur-ee!sage.cc!jcs\n", "\nOh yeah, how come Dino could never take the Caps out of the Patrick\nDivision? He choked up 3 games to 1 last year and got swept away in\nthe second round two years ago. He rarely, if ever, makes it out of the\ndivision.\n\n\nSo are the Islanders, but they can still pull it out. Vancouver has Winnipeg's\n number, so it really doesn't matter.\n\n\n\n Kings always seem to go at least 6 or 7, they never play a four or five\ngame serious. There's a difference between battling it out and pulling it\nout, as I take Calgary to pull it out in 7.", "\nI wondered the same thing. When he first mentioned it, I thought he was\njust making a mistake but then he said it over and over. And then in the\nexamples from other years, he gave stats for players from both leagues even\nwhen only one league expanded.\n\nSo (since stats *NEVER* lie :-) ), I guess there is an effect on both leagues\nbecause the expansion draft takes talent from both leagues equally making \nevery team in both leagues dilute their major league talent by calling up\nplayers that, normally, they would not have had there not been expansion.", "\n\nIf you think that's bad, just wait until he tries Dunston in\nthe leadoff spot again. \n\nYes, I also wonder if they can win with this manager.\nI never believed managers had that much to do with winning\nuntil I saw how much they had to do with losing....", "I am in need of all of the players wearing #77 in the NHL. I know now only\nof one, Ray Borque for the Bruins. Any help would be greatly appreciated.\n\nThanx.\n", "\n\nMy sig has nothing to do with cockiness. What you put in your sig has nothing\nto do with your article, as I learned back in the fall, the hard way.\n\n\nYou mean 'butt' don't you? Not but :-)\n\n\nSure you do -- what??????????\n\n\nTwo points, one what does r.s.b.c. have to do with hockey? Secondly, UMASS\nbeat my Quakers??? Hello!!! Earth here, are you responding??? We're not in\nthe Atlantic 10 (or 8 whatever you wanna call it), we're in the Big 10 now!!!\nThe A-10 was too weak for my Lady Lions -- they had to go to a more challenging\nconference. It didn't pay off as the Big East showed them a thing or too, but\nI still posted on a regular basis and tracked all the women's scores with\nreviews throughout the tournament. It wasn't a reason to stop posting. :-)\n\n\nIt's not over yet -- if anyone has a chance to come back in 4 games, I think\nBoston can do it, but I still see Buffalo winning in 6.\n\n\nAgreed -- they're playing tremendous hockey right now. Congatualtions on three\nstraight Buffalo. It could very easily be 2-1 Boston, but Buffalo has come up\ntough and a little luck. (You never see a penalty in OT that doesn't have both\nsides involved in a playoff game. Never never never!)\n", "\nFirst, I enjoyed reading your post. Second, I disagree with the Pen's weak\nspot being defense and goaltending - for a couple of reasons. Barrasso has\nhad a spectacular year - no slow start, consistently sharp, GAA < 3.0, and \nleads the league in wins. Tommy deserves the Vezina. Given the lack of \nrespect he commands, though, I doubt he will win it. The other reason \nconcerns the Pens' team defense. They are hovering around 3rd or 4th in the\nfewest goals allowed. That is a big improvement for them, and it indicates\nthat they are playing better team defense.\n\n\nWe'll see. It'll be fun.", "\nNot particularly *in* the World Series. During the season, he was probably\nmore valuable than, say, putting Olerud out there to pitch, but yeah, he\n*was* valuable in getting them there. In the postseason, he sucked dirty\ncanal water through a straw. The Jays won *in spite* of Morris much more\nthan *because of* him.\n\n\nUmm, Roger? Return with us to those halcyon days of a few postings ago,\nwhere the poster Valentine was replying to used # of WS rings as a measure\nof better. The concept is called \"context\", and you should really become\nfamiliar with it someday.\n\n\nUnless this transaltes to \"Clemens hasn't gone into Lou Gorman's office with\na large caliber handgun and refused to come out until he'd been traded to\nthe Jays,\" I'm at a complete loss as to any possible meaning for it.\n\n\nWhat on earth does this mean? Over their careers, Clemens has \"won\" 68% of\nthe games he's started, Morris 58%. Per year, Clemens has averaged nearly 17\nwins, Morris just under 15. Would you grant the proposition that preventing\nthe other team from scoring increases your chances of winning a game? If\nso, then consider that Clemens allows 2.8 runs/9 innings pitched. Morris\nallows nearly a run more per nine innings. In fact, Jack Morris has never in\nhis career had an ERA for a single year as good as Clemens' career ERA. But\nI forget, in the Maynardverse there was obviously some mystical significance\nto Buckner missing that grounder in 1986; had Morris been on the Sox, it\nwould have been a routine groundout, right?\n\n\nSpeaking of stupid, it has been patiently (and not-so-patiently) explained to\nyou many times that attributing greatness to players based on the\naccomplishments of their teams makes about as much sense as claiming that\na racecar has the most attractive paint job because it won the race. Your\ncontinued failure to not only understand but even to intelligently reply to\nany of the arguments presented leads me to the conclusion that you must have\nspent a few too many games in goal without a mask.\n\n\nNo one is crying; the Jays won, and as a team they certainly deserved to win\nat least the AL East. They performed well in two short series and won the\nWorld Series, and I congratulate them for it. As a Red Sox fan, I hope they\nkeep Morris. I was happy when they picked up Stewart, and elated when they\ntraded for Darrin Jackson. You see, unless you believe in some mystical link\nbetween Morris and the offense, you can hardly help but believe that the man\nwas credited with so many wins last year because he got lucky. Luck runs\nout, just like it did in 1982 when he pitched 50-odd more innings than 1992,\ngave up exactly *one* earned run more than in 1992, and went 17-16.\n\nSeriously, Roger, I'd really like to hear your explanation of the difference\nbetween the 1982 Morris and the 1992 Morris. Which one was a better pitcher,\nand why? Did Morris somehow \"learn how to win\" in the intervening ten years?\nIf so, then why did he go 18-12 in 1991 with Minnesota with an ERA over half\na run lower than 1992?\n\n Mike Jones | AIX High-End Development | mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com", "\nAnd won't they have to change their name to the \"Steelers\" or something.\nThe only significant deposits of oil around Hamilton are those caused by\nthe tire fire a few years back.", "\n\na) Dominican\nb) not all that light-hitting. .304 lifetime, .315 or so in 1966-73\nwhen he did most of his playing. \nc) Professional pinch-hitter after that. Yes, that also gives you\nJerry Hairston.\n\n\nBeginning 10th year now.\n\n\nGood one.\n\n\nNot the same thing. LOTS of people are bad OFs.\n\n\nNot all that light either. .750 OPS.\n\n\nNot 10 year.\n\n\n10-year this year.\n\n\nNot 10-year. \n\n\nNot 10-year.\n\n\nYup.\n\n\nOK.\n\n\n10-year this year.\n\n\n*Six*-year this year.\n\n\nBrock, Coleman, and Wilson were hot-dog basestealers (also Lonnie Smith);\nthat seems to be a special class. CFs like Pettis and Wilson also get \nmore of a break, especially if they actually *do* field well. And Brock\nwasn't all that bad a hitter either, not until the end there when he \nspoiled his ifetime .300 BA.\n\nAnd again, I suspect thatthe problem is lessening over time. But if\nyou look at the history of the last three decades, there seems to \nbe a clear race-based pattern by which utility players and platoon\nplayers and lesser talents stayed in the ML far longer if they were\nwhite.\n\n\nLight hitting? 199 HR, .793 lifetime OPS mainly with *HOUSTON*?\nAlso Latin, btw.\n\n\n\nCome back in 1999 and we'll party^H^H^H^H^H talk.", "\nUh, I don't think you can call a team with Tom Seaver, Jerry Koosman,\nand Nolan Ryan on the pitching staff a team that has \"no talent.\" They\ndid come out of nowhere, but some of the improvement was\nforseeable. ", "\n\tIn the Boston area, you can hear the Rangers on WFAN and the Devils\non WABC, the Whalers on WTIC and the Red Wings on WJR. This of course is in\naddition to the Bruins who are currently on WEEI but may move to WHDH because\nthe fools at WEEI are owned by the Celtics and thus will show them over the\nBruins every time there is a conflict. You can also get WBAL Baltimore but\nI don't think they have hockey. BTW, I once got a station from Indiana that\nhad Fort Wayne Comets games.\n", "GAME(S) OF 4/15\n---------------\nADIRONDACK 6\tCDI 2\t(Adirondack leads series, 1-0)\n\n=================================================\t\t\t\nFIRST ROUND\t\t\t\t\t\nSpringfield Indians vs Providence Bruins\nGm 1:\tSpringfield 3\tPROVIDENCE 2\t\nGm 2:\tSpringfield 5\tPROVIDENCE 4\nGm 3:\t4/16\tProvidence at Springfield\nGm 4:\t4/17\tProvidence at Springfield\nGm 5:\t4/22\tSpringfield at Providence\t*\nGm 6:\t4/24\tProvidence at Springfield\t*\nGm 7:\t4/27\tSpringfield at Providence\t*\n\nCD Islanders vs Adirondack Red Wings\nGm 1:\tADIRONDACK 6\tCDI 2\nGm 2:\t4/17\tCDI at Adirondack\nGm 3:\t4/18\tAdirondack at CDI\nGm 4:\t4/21\tAdirondack at CDI\nGm 5:\t4/23\tCDI at Adirondack\t*\nGm 6:\t4/24\tAdirondack at CDI\t*\nGm 7:\t4/26\tCDI at Adirondack\t*\n\nBaltimore Skipjacks at Binghamton Rangers\nGm 1:\t4/16\tBaltimore at Binghamton\nGm 2:\t4/17\tBaltimore at Binghamton\nGm 3:\t4/23\tBinghamton at Baltimore\nGm 4:\t4/24\tBinghamton at Baltimore\nGm 5:\t4/26\tBaltimore at Binghamton\t*\nGm 6:\t4/28\tBinghmaton at Baltimore\t*\nGm 7:\t4/30\tBaltimore at Binghamton\t*\n\nUtica Devils vs Rochester Americans\nGm 1:\t4/16\tUtica at Rochester\nGm 2:\t4/17\tUtica at Rochester\nGm 3:\t4/20\tRochester at Utica\nGm 4:\t4/22\tRochester at Utica\nGm 5:\t4/24\tUtica at Rochester\t*\nGm 6:\t4/26\tRochester at Utica\t*\nGm 7:\t4/28\tUtica at Rochester\t*\n\nMoncton Hawks vs St John's Maple Leafs\nGm 1:\tSt John's 4\tMoncton 2\nGm 2:\t4/17\tMoncton vs St John's at Halifax\nGm 3:\t4/21\tSt John's at Moncton\nGm 4:\t4/23\tSt John's at Moncton\nGm 5:\t4/26\tMoncton vs St John's at Halifax\t*\nGm 6:\t4/28\tSt John's at Moncton\t\t*\nGm 7:\t4/30\tMoncton vs St John's at Halifax\t*\n\nCape Breton Oilers vs Fredericton Canadiens\nGm 1:\tFredericton 4\tCape Breton 3\t(2OT)\nGm 2:\t4/16\tCape Breton at Fredericton\t\nGm 3:\t4/20\tFredericton at Cape Breton\nGm 4:\t4/22\tFredericton at Cape Breton\nGm 5:\t4/24\tCape Breton at Fredericton\t*\nGm 6:\t4/26\tFredericton at Cape Breton\t*\nGm 7:\t4/28\tCape Breton at Fredericton\t*", "Y'all lighten up on Harry, Skip'll be like that in a couple of years!!>\n\nHarry's a great personality. He's the reason I like Cubs broadcasts.\n(It's certainly not the quality of the team).\n\nChop Chop\n\nMichael Mule'\n\n", "NHL RESULTS FOR GAMES PLAYED 4/05/93.\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n STANDINGS\n PATRICK ADAMS NORRIS SMYTHE\n TM W L T PT TM W L T PT TM W L T PT TM W L T PT\n \nxPIT 53 21 6 112 yMON 47 27 6 100 yDET 44 28 9 97 yVAN 42 28 9 93\n WAS 40 31 7 87 yBOS 46 26 7 99 yCHI 43 25 11 97 yCAL 40 29 10 90\n NJ 38 35 6 82 yQUE 44 25 10 98 yTOR 42 26 11 95 yLA 37 33 9 83\n NYI 37 34 6 80 yBUF 38 31 10 86 STL 35 34 10 80 yWIN 37 35 7 81\n NYR 34 33 11 79 HAR 24 49 5 53 MIN 34 35 10 78 EDM 26 45 8 60\n PHL 30 37 11 71 OTT 9 66 4 22 TB 22 51 5 49 SJ 10 68 2 22\n\nx - Clinched Division Title\ny - Clinched Playoff Berth\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nHartford Whalers (24-49-5) 1 1 3 - 5\nNew York Rangers (34-33-11) 1 2 1 - 4\n\n1st period: HAR, Cunneyworth 5 - (Janssens, Greig) 12:21\n\t NYR, Graves 34 - (Turcotte, Zubov) 18:39\n\n2nd period: NYR, Kovalev 19 - (Turcotte, Graves) 2:12\n\t HAR, Sanderson 44 - (Cassels) (pp) 4:54\n\t NYR, Amonte 30 - (Andersson, Vanbiesbrouck) (pp) 19:13\n\n3rd period: NYR, M.Messier 25 - (Amonte, Andersson) 2:26\n\t HAR, Sanderson 45 - (Cassels) (sh) 5:23\n\t HAR, Nylanders 6 - (Ladouceur) 8:35\n\t HAR, Verbeek 36 - (Zalapski) 17:43\n\nPowerplay Opportunities-Whalers 1 of 4\n\t\t\tRangers 1 of 4\n\nShots on Goal-\tWhalers 7 8 8 - 23\n\t\tRangers 9 10 12 - 31\n\nHartford Whalers--Gosselin (4-7-1) (31 shots - 27 saves)\nNew York Rangers--Vanbiesbrouck (20-18-7) (23 shots - 18 saves)\n\nATT-17,806\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n", "\nYou're right about the signal being strong. I live in West Philadelphia,\nand I can get FAN almost perfectly. It's a sports fans dream (especially\nif that person is from NY and wants to hear about his teams while he's\naway at school). As for Lupica & Berman, it's turned out to be Lupica,\nthen Berman. Neither of them wanted to work a full four hour show, so Ed\nColeman and Dave Sims' old four-hour slot was broken down into two\nseperate two-hour show - Lupica from 10-12, and Berman from 12-2. And they\nboth happen to suck in comparison to Eddie and Dave. COME BACK, GUYS!\n\n\nLike I said, I live in Philly, so I can hear FAN and/or WIP whenever I\nwant. But I cannot stand WIP. And it isn't because I loathe the Philly\nsports teams - the Phillies are my favorite NL team (Yanks are favorite\nAL), and the Eagles aren't too bad either. There are two big problems:\n\n\t1)Total emphasis on the home teams, especially the Eagles. Unlike\n\t the FAN hosts, who can at least answer a question about an\n\t out-of-town team if a caller asks, the WIP hosts seem\n \t to have no clue about any team that doesn't play on\n\t Broad Street. Also, FANs periodic sports updates (every 20\n\t minutes) gives sports news and scores from around the\n\t country. It's very rare to hear an out-of-town score\n\t being reported on WIP.\n\n\t2)The hosts. With the exception of Jody MacDonald, who I miss\n\t from his days at FAN, none of the hosts really seems to have\n\t both a broad knowledge of the sport or a good on-air presence.\n\t The worst is Gary Cobb, who seems to have been hired solely\n\t on the basis that he used to play for the Eagles.\n\nAnyway, that's my two cents on the whole FAN vs WIP battle.", "I thought I'd post my predicted standings since I find those posted by others\nto be interesting. Sorry this is after Opening Day. I certify that these\nwere completed before the first pitch. :-)\n\nAL East\n1. New York Yankees - the most (only?) improved team in this division\n2. Toronto Blue Jays - Stewart and Morris? No way.\n3. Milwaukee Brewers - they always seem to do better than I expect\n4. Baltimore Orioles - Pitching, but Devareaux, Anderson, and Hoiles will drop\n5. Cleveland Indians - Still don't seem to know what they are doing\n6. Detroit Tigers - All key players but Fryman are another year past peak\n7. Boston Red Sox - Any team with Clemens and Viola might be beter than 7th\n\nAl West - this division was the toughest for me to pick. Whoever of the top\n 4 gets pitching should win it.\n1. Minnesota Twins - young pitchers seem to have best chance for success\n2. Texas Rangers - I don't know why I have them here. Jose Canseco?\n3. Chicago White Sox - Frank Thomas but no pitching.\n4. Oakland A's - LaRussa is the best manager and would keep any team close\n5. Seattle Mariners - I like Pinella, but don't see much here\n6. Kansas City Royals - will score no runs\n7. California Angels - will win no games\n\nNL East\n1. Montreal Expos - good all around, plus no Wallach!\n2. St. Louis Cardinals - (Jeffries + Whiten) >> (Jose + Clark), no Galarraga\n3. Pittsburgh Pirates - youngsters will take up more slack than expected\n4. New York Mets - some good players, still not a \"team\"\n5. Philadelphia Phillies - they don't impress me\n6. Florida Marlins - they know what they're doing\n7. Chicago Cubs - they don't know what they're doing\n\nNL West - The 2 best teams in baseball are in this division.\n1. Atlanta Braves - Awesome starters, but offense could be a concern\n2. Cincinnati Reds - Would not surprise me if they won it all\n3. Houston Astros - Any team that signs Uribe won't contend. Closer to 4 than 2\n4. San Diego Padres - Plantier could be the Sheffield of 1993\n5. Los Angeles Dodgers - better pitching than the Giants\n6. San Francisco Giants - because the Rockies just stink\n7. Colorado Rockies - will become the Seattle Mariners of the NL.\n\n\nNLCS Montreal d. Atlanta (Braves fans, yes I'm probably contradicting\n what I said in my NL West comment.)\nALCS New York d. Minnesota\n\nWorld Series New York d. Montreal - Hating the Yankees will be\n fashionable again\n\nNL MVP: Barry Bonds, or maybe McGriff\nNL Cy Young: Jose Rijo\nAL MVP: Frank Thomas will deserve it (again), but Fielder might win it\nAL Cy Young: Roger Clemens (at least will deserve it (again))\n\n-- ", "\n\nIf it encouraged the runner to stretch his lead, it would probably\nalso result ina greater number of pickoffs. I think it would be a\nworkable rule, but it would probably be best to experiment in another\nleague before trying it in the bigs.", "Hallo all...my girlfriend and I will be travelling across the US this summer,\nso we won't be using our tickets to return to Hawaii. Please buy them.\n\nThe tickets are one-way, leaving Peoria, IL on May 17. It connects to the main\nroute in Minneapolis/St. Paul, and from there goes on to Honolulu...you'll be\nin Honolulu at 2:42 pm, and flying via Northwest airlines.\n\nAny offers will be considered, but please make sure these are serious offers.\nTickets to Hawaii aren't cheap, but we're aiming to make two people very happy\nthis summer.", "I think you can add former A's first baseman Mike Epstein (no relation) to \nthe list.", "Are there any Montreal Canadiens fans out there who can let me the radio\nstation(s) which are playing the playoff series (including short wave radio\nfrequencies)? Lewisburg, PA (home of Bucknell University) is definitely\nnot a hockey town! \n\nPlease send responses to malinich@bucknell.edu", "Four tickets available for the Paul McCartney concert at the Alamo Dome \nin San Antonio, TX on May 29th...\n\nGROUND FLOOR SEATS.\n\nWill sell all four, or in pairs: $100 each.\n", "\n\nDUDE! Are you nuts? WFAN is second to none. Jody Mac's exit was quite a\nloss, but if you think Fredericks On The FAN was much of one, you're pretty\nskewed.", "\n\n\n\nWell, Dave, I would have to disagree with you there. Satan himself could\nown the team, and I'd be happy as long as the Oilers stayed in Edmonton.\nSelfish, but true. I don't want to see the Oilers move, no matter who\ntheir owner is.", "Actually, I was angry when they went away from the Pens game.\nBeing a Pens fan in central Virginia is kinda tough. I only\nget to see them on ESPN, and when they play the Caps, cause\nwe're close enough to DC to get all the Caps games, so when\nESPN switched to the Caps, . . . AAAGGGHHH!", "\n\n\nFrom his Topps \"rookie\" year (as coach) card (74-75):\n\"For the past couple of seasons, Don has been the highly-successful\n coach of the Rochester Americans of the AHL, but he is getting his\n first shot at an NHL job with the Bruins. Named Coach of the Year\n in the AHL the last two years, and he aims to make the Bruins a\n rough team again, as they were a couple of years back. Although\n he played 16 seasons of professional hockey, Don never played a\n regular-season NHL game. He did appear in one playoff game for\n Boston in 1956-57. Don's brother, Dick, played two seasons in the\n NHL with Boston and Philadelphia.\"\n\n\n", "\nIMHO this is the most untrustworthy, silly stat, by today's rules, in all \nof baseball. My understanding is to qualify as a save a pitcher cannot \npitch more than three innings and the potential tying run must at least \nappear in the on-deck circle. Also, the lead a pitcher enters with cannot \nexcede three runs.\n\nI believe that the official scorers must assert more of their authority in \ndetermining winners/savers/etc. For instance, a pitcher can come in in the \nninth with a lead, blow the lead, fall behind, have his team come back in \nthe next half inning and earn the win. Has this pitcher earned a win, no \nway.\n\nI guy could pitch five strong innings of middle relief and see his \nteammates rally to tie the score. Assume he came in to start the fourth \nand left after the eighth. His teammate holds the opposition scoreless in \nthe ninth and they score a run in the bottom of the ninth to win. The \nthird pitcher earns the win and the middle reliever gets no \"stat\" \nsatisfaction.\n\nMike", "\n\tWell tell us about your pool table!\n\n-=- Andy -=-", "Did anyone happen to see Peter Gammons on ESPN last night? He addressed\nthis exact issue, and dismissed it rather quickly. According to Gammons,\nadvanced scouts are reporting that Morris' fastball and slider still have\nthe same zip and that his problems this year are due to his sudden inability\nto keep the ball hidden during his release. Guzman and Stottlemyre have\ngone through similar stretches that have been cleared up succinctly by a\nlittle work with the pitching coach. Gammons looks to see Morris back in\ntop form within the month.\n\nI, on the other hand, still have my doubts. Morris' ERA last year was\nrather high for a pitcher who won 20 games. His showing in the Series was\nnot surprising. Although I'm not convinced that he's washed up, I have my\ndoubts as to whether or not he can ever regain the form he had for the\nTwins in '91.", "\n\n\nHank Greenberg would have to be the most famous, because his Jewish\nfaith actually affected his play. (missing late season or was it world\nseries games because of Yom Kippur)\n\n\n", "I want All-Star Tickets does anyone know how I can get\nsome?\n\nAre they for public sale or are they sold out?\n\nOr do you just have to work for a company with some\n\nAnyway any answers would be appreciated.\n\nPlease E-mail me.", "fans into the game but surely they would rather see Broten taking a pass from\nKovalev and scoring a breakaway goal to put the Rangers up 3 (magic #) goals in\nthe third period, rather than seeing Kocur take another stupid penalty and the\nRangers giving up another powerplay goal! \n\nThe Rangers need another top flight center who can take the pressure off\nMessier and the first line. Nemchinov is a perfect third line center.\n\nSo who goes Beezer or Richter?", "RA> Here's the point: there are far too many Europeans in the NHL. \nR> I am sick of watching a game between an American and a Canadian \nRA> team (let's say, the Red Wings and the Canucks) and seeing names \nR> like \"Bure\" \"Konstantinov\" and \"Borshevshky\". Is this North America \nRA> isn't it?\n \nI disagree. I think the NHL should feature the best hockey talent in\nthe world -- regardless of nationality. I have to admit that when I \nsee players like Gretzky and Messier traded off to the US because the\nCanadian teams can't afford them, I have been know to say (only half-\nseriously) that we'd probably be better off if we had our own Canadian\nhockey league for Canadian players! ;-)\n\nRA> I'm all for the creation of a European Hockey League, and let \nRA> te Bures and Selannes of the world play on their own continent. \n\nRA> \nRA> I just don't want themon mine. \n \nAgain, it doesn't matter to me -- Russian, Finnish, Mexican, Albertan,\nNew Yorker, black, white, korean, martian, plutoneon, ... it doesn't\nmatter.\n \nAny of them can put a Leafs' jersey on if they can put the puck in! \n:-)", "Al Weiss played second for the White Sox in the early sixties, chiefly as\nback up to Don Buford. Good glove, no hit, some spunk.\n\n(Which reminds me: do they still serve Kosher hot dogs at the new Comiskey?)\n", "\n[detailed explanation deleted..]\n\n\nIndeed, you have struck right at the heart of our disagreement. To \nrebut my opinion, you have made an analogy with a game of chance.\nYour hypothesis assumes that the Lotto players have no impact on\nthe selection of the numbers, and hence their ability to win.\n\nWell, that's certainly true in Lotto. But it has absolutely\nNOTHING to do with the sport of baseball. When you start down\nthe wrong path, you finish down the wrong path.\n\n\n\n\n\nI repeat. I do not think that statistical analysis of prior clutch\nhitting performance is an accurate predictor of future clutch hitting\nperformance.\n\nI do, however, think that analysis of prior clutch hitting performance\nmay, for some players, indicate a deficiency in their game that indeed\nwill provide a basis for projecting their particular future performance.\nAnd I think Chris Sabo is such a player.\n\n\n\n\n--\tThe Beastmaster\n", "\n\nMake that ten, not eight. The Mets and Astros joined the N.L. in 1962.\n", "\nOkay, here's the down side of the ESPN deal: no additional coverage.\nWith a split contract, SCA could have at least gotten at leftovers\nlike Canucks-Jets, Caps-whoever and Red Wings-Leafs (or whoever else\nis playing).\n\n\nFor our area (Islanders-Devils), it's likely to be the Bruins, since\nthe other Adams series is Montreal-Quebec. I'd prefer the latter\nmyself ...\n\nI'm under the impression that the ABC deal overrides the local deals,\nbut if St. Louis at Chicago pops up we'll know ...\n\ngld", "\nActually, I was hoping for Barry Bonds. Oh well.\n\n\nFirst off, Jeff has had like 5 hits in the last two games, and walked\n*yet again*. Sorry Ken, but Jeff King does have some power, which\nmeans his SLG won't be below .300, and his walks are *way* up. If\nthat increase is real, Jeff King will be an above average NL third\nbaseman in 1993. Jose Lind, on the other hand, *still* doesn't walk,\nand clearly isn't a .320 hitter. My bet is that he won't be getting\nany extra bases either once everybody starts pulling the \"Lind Shift\"\nwe were seeing in the NL.\n\n\nNo, although since the Lavalliere weirdness, nothing would really\nsurprise me. Jeff King is currently in the top 10 in the league in\n*walks*. Something is up...", "\tUsually one or two teams changes their logo or a minor\nuniform change per season, but the past few seasons have been\nincredible.\n\tAny thoughts on the new (old) Reds uniforms. I\nremember seeing a Pete Rose rookie card, and unless I miss my\nguess he was wearing the exact same duds. \n\tThe Mets (HOW ABOUT DOC'S PERFORMANCE TODAY?!!!!!) have\nreinserted the Mets patch on the shoulder, and changed the Mets\ninsgnia on the front of the jersey. To my knowledge it is the\nfirst time that has been changed since 1962, and it reminds me\na little of the Dodger logo. \n\tMany teams have opted for a return to a previous style\nof uniform, or at least uniforms that look more traditional.\n(Phillies, Reds, Expos, White Sox, Padres, etc.) and the once\nbright colors have been altered to gray. The trend has also\nseen the newer baseball fields resembling the parks of the\nearly years, as opposed to the cookie-cutter saucer stadiums\nconstrucrted throughout the sixties.\n\tWith salaries now reaching unbelievable highs, no one\nin the comissioner's office, and inter-league play on the\nhorizon, it's nice to see that baseball at least looks like it\nwas meant to be. \n", "Caps/Isles Fans,\n\nAnyone interested in catching the games from Nassau\nColiseum (hopefully there will be another) can catch\nthe game at North Carolina's Original Sports Bar in\nChapel Hill. I'm pretty sure they carry HTS as well.\nThey had all three games on at the same\ntime last night. This is the only place I know to\ncatch all of the Stanley Cup action.", "Just heard on the news that Mike Keenan formerly of the Blackhawks, Flyers,\nand General of a Siberian Prison has just signed to coach the Rangers. The\nRangers, who won the President's Cup last year have slipped just a bit at the\nend of the season and are destined to finish last behind the lowly Flyers.\nThe Flyers' fans are going to be disappointed on Keenans decision, because\nthey were very interested in him. Oh well.\n\nGo CAPS!!!!!!!\n\nConnin", "\n\n\n\n\nThese people were very silly. Any team that gets to the World Series\ncan win the World Series, and anybody who ever expects a sweep is\ncrazy. If you put the best team in baseball in the Series against\nthe worst team in baseball, the worst team would win at least a game\nmost of the time and very well could win the Series, though the odds\nwould certainly be against them.", "\n \n\nPerhaps it was the most exciting game played yet that YOU have seen. For\nmost of us who watch teams around the league with interest and objectivity, \nit was *nowhere* *near* the most exciting game...\n\n\nUnfortunately, the instant replay is not used on hits. At first, I\nimmediately thought \"5 and a game\" because the hit _looked_ much more severe\nfrom an intent-to-injure perspective than it was. After seeing the replay,\nI'd say it deserved 2-4 minutes for boarding (it was careless any way you \nslice it). If Stewart had replay, I do not think Chaisson would have gotten\n5 and the game.\n\n\nThis no-call was bullshit, I agree. I admire Stewart for letting them go, but\nProbert *looked* *up* saying where the hell is the penalty? I've never\nseen Probert whine either (he doesn't need to). Now, if Probie\ndecides to put Wendel through the boards, he's probably gone, right?\n\n\nThis was also bullshit. But once again, no replay. It was Rouse, btw. I'm\nreally pissed that the linesmen didn't correct the call either....it's b.s.\nwhen the officials refuse to admit they made a mistake. \n\n\nYes. The calls you describe should not have the difference in a Detroit\nloss. I picked the Leafs to win Game 3 on emotion and adrenalin, but the\nWings have no excuses for Game 4. They should be the superior team.\n\nThe call that pissed me off the most was Anderson getting 4 for putting his\nstick in somebody's eye. That was _the_ most dangerous stick infraction I\nhave seen in a long time, and everybody in the damn league _knows_ he's an\nasshole when it comes to stickwork. Four lousy minutes. Bullshit call. \nMurray should send the tape in. Or a Wing should hammer the living shit out\nof him.\n", "if\nteam! \nYeah but Soderstrom's mask has always appeared to be a lot bigger than the \naverage helmet-and-cage variety. It has a certain appeal on its own\n\njosh\n", "Apparently, Part 2 (defensemen numbered 2 through 19) was lost when I posted\nit; to make things worse, I lost my own copy. I have asked on the Sharks\nmailing list, on which it did get out, to see if someone can mail me a copy\nback. If someone responds, I will repost it when I get it; otherwise, I will\nre-write it in a day or two and post it. Sorry about that.\n\n#8\tLARRY DEPALMA\t\tSeason:\t3rd\nAcquired:\t'91-92, free agent from Minnesota\nGrade:\t\tI (C-/D+)\n\nNo netter/fan watching the Sharks, including me, knows where DePalma was at\nthe end of the season; the Sharks appeared to still have his rights, but he\nwasn't in San Jose, he wasn't in Kansas City, and his name hasn't appeared on\nthe waiver wire. And that kind of invisibility was prevalent for the most part\nfor DePalma. After being called up October 30 against the Tampa Bay Lightning,\nDePalma had an excellent week, scoring 5 points in 3 games while playing good\ndefense. Unfortunately, the 27-year-old DePalma then disappeared the rest of\nthe way, getting just 3 more points in 15 more games, and generally looked\nlethargic and uninterested on both ends of the ice. He then was sent down to\nKansas City, walked out from there, and was suspended and later reinstated\nwhen it was revealed that he was injured; he then promptly disappeared from\nthe watching eyes of Shark Bytes (as the mailing list is now known to Sharks\nofficials) faithful, and neither the Sharks nor we miss him.\n\n#10\tJOHAN GARPENLOV\t\tSeason: 3rd\nAcquired:\t'91-92, trade with Detroit for D Bob McGill and 8th round\n\t\tpick in '92 entry draft from Vancouver\nGrade:\t\tA/A-\n\nAfter an early slump, Garpenlov was nothing short of inspirational the rest\nof the way, finishing with 66 points in 79 games, second highest total on the\nteam, as he clicked well with team MVP Kelly Kisio and right wing Rob\nGaudreau. Kisio got most of the credit, but Garpenlov, finishing second in\nthe MVP voting, clearly demonstrated his playmaking and scoring skills, as he\nwas seen making excellent centering passes as well as finishing passes to him\nby putting the puck past opposing goaltenders, getting a club-high 14 power-\nplay goals. Contrary to his previous rep, Garpenlov also showed that despite\nhis small size (5' 11\", 183 lbs.), he was willing to throw himself around\nwhen necessary, albeit not very successful yet. He also still needs to work\non his defense, although he improved tremendously throughout the season, and\nwas actually quite a good penalty killer by the end of the season. He will\nbe a major key to the offense next year.\n\n#15\tDAVID BRUCE\t\tSeason: 5th\nAcquired:\t'91-92, from St. Louis in expansion draft\nGrade:\t\tI (?)\n\nAfter a banner '91-92, when he led the team in power-play goals (10) and\nwas third in total scoring (38 points in 60 games), Bruce was bothered\nvirtually all of this season with a groin injury, which kept him out of the\nlineup for all by 17 games this season. Of course, it is difficult to\nspeculate how well he would have done this season had he not been affected by\nthe injury, but the 28-year-old Bruce was effective with a man up or a man\nshort in the Sharks' first season, and was expected to be a strong offensive\nleader this season as well. The injury appears serious, which is a shame,\nbecause otherwise he may have a much brighter future for now; instead, his\nfuture with the Sharks next season appears clouded.\n\n#18\tMARK PEDERSON\t\tSeason:\t3rd\nAcquired:\t'92-93, trade with Philadelphia for C/LW Dave Snuggerud\nGrade:\t\tI (B)\n\nIt is difficult for me to understand the Flyers' decision to unload Pederson,\nafter a very good offensive season last season (40 points in 58 games), but\nafter riding the pine early in the season, Pederson was summarily sent to the\nSharks in exchange of the defensive-minded Snuggerud, and he finished with\n41 games combined with the Flyers and the Sharks. He was also limited by\ninjuries this season, and this limited his production (17 points). But when\nhealthy, Pederson appears impressive, with a good scoring touch, good size\n(and the willingness to throw it around, although he's not considered a\nphysical forward), and good speed. He also does not appear to be a liability\non defense, but the Sharks probably have to wait until next season to see how\nmuch, exactly, Pederson can do.\n\n#20\tJOHN CARTER\t\tSeason: 4th\nAcquired:\t'91-92, free agent from Boston\nGrade:\t\tI (B+/B)\n\nCarter was definitely one of the hardest workers on the team, and the hard\nwork worked wonders, as at times he looked great on ice. However, although he\ndid look great at times, the fact that he received just 16 points (in 55\ngames) for his efforts is a sign that there is only so much his hard work can\ndo, and the Sharks confirmed that by sending him to Kansas City with about\n20 games left in the season. Carter, who will turn 30 on May 6, always\nhussled, but as a result, was sometimes trapped too deep within the offensive\nzone while forechecking, but he was generally a credit on the defensive end,\nbut he is probably of limited utility in that capacity, and he did not impress\noffensively, although he was one of the best Sharks at drawing penalties. He\nis very unlikely to be back next season.\n\n#28\tJEAN-FRANCOIS QUINTIN\tSeason: 1st\nAcquired:\t'91-92, from Minnesota in dispersal draft\nGrade:\t\tI (B+/B)\n\nI don't understand why the Sharks didn't let Quintin play any more than the\n14 games he played this season. He was generally hard-working and creating\nopportunities offensively, and appeared, at age 23, ready for regular NHL\nduty, at least for a team like the Sharks, finishing with 7 points in those\n14 games while not being a defensive liability. Shoulder injury in training\ncamp before the '91-92 season limited Quintin, the team's leading scorer in\nexhibition games despite sitting out the final two, to just 29 games with the\nSharks and the Blades that season, but he looked impressive. He should be a\nsolid contender for regular duty next season.\n\n#41\tMARK BEAUFAIT\t\tSeason: 1st\nAcquired:\t2nd round pick in 1991 supplemental draft\nGrade:\t\tI (?)\n\nAfter a all-star season at Kansas City, Beaufait got a cup of coffey with the\nSharks late in the season when the Blades knocked down a playoff spot and the\nSharks decimated with injuries, playing 5 games and scoring a goal for his only\nNHL point thus far. Despite small size (5' 9\", 165 lbs.), Beaufait was not shy\nto throw himself around when necessary, and looked pretty good at times,\nalthough it's too early to judge him based on 5 NHL games, in which he played\nmostly left wing, away from his center position at Northern Michigan and\nKansas City.\n\n#42\tJAROSLAV OTEVREL\tSeason: 1st\nAcquired:\t8th round pick in 1991 entry draft\nGrade:\t\tI (?)\n\nLike Beaufait, Otevrel also played away from his normal position when he was\nup for his cup of tea (7 games) midway through the season. He was generally\nvery much of a defensive liability, and did not show much offensively either,\nalthough that may be more indicative of the lack of ice time he got in those\n7 games. He may need another season to work on his defense, but once his\ndefense is acceptable, he should be ready.\n\n#44\tMICHEL PICARD\t\tSeason: 1st\nAcquired:\t'92-93, trade with Hartford for LW Yvon Corriveau\nGrade:\t\tI (B-/C+)\n\nThe 23-year-old Picard, although he perennially tore up the minors, seems to\nbe close to being out of chances, for some reason, after being acquired by the\nSharks but failing to impress the management in 25 games, scoring 4 goals for\nhis only points, and he spent most of the rest of the way in Kansas City.\nHe was not particularly strong defensively, and despite his offensive\nbrilliance in the minors, he has failed thus far to score in the NHL, although\nhe has been given limited opportunities. He may be the Sharks' bait in the\nexpansion draft.\n\n#45\tDODY WOOD\t\tSeason: 1st\nAcquired:\t3rd round pick in 1991 entry draft\nGrade:\t\tI (D+/D, although perhaps I shouldn't give a grade at all)\n\nI have been accused of knocking on Wood too much. :-) Then, it is probably\nno surprise to you that I am thoroughly unimpressed by Wood thus far, although\n13 games is a small example. He was generally a nonfactor on offense, was\nnot particularly good defensively, and took too many silly penalties, losing\nmany fights in the process and gathering 69 penalty minutes in those 13 games,\nprojecting to to 446(!) in an 84-game season. He's not ready, and needs at\nleast another season at KC, where he can work on his fighting skills, if\nnothing else. His relatively small size (5' 11\", 181 lbs.) does not give much\npossibility that he can survive, at this stage, as an enforcer.", "\n\nNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Who's the mindscheme(?) behind this one -- Ted\nSimmons? As the saying goes, \"If it ain't broke, don't fix it.\" I'm 230\nmiles from home (during the school year) and will never be able to pick up\nDVE. At least now I can sort of make out what Mike and Steigy say through\nall the static on KDKA. This just may be enough reason for me to transfer\nto Duquesne and live at home. Who's going to announce on DVE anyway? \nPaulson and Krenn? (Just kidding.)", "\n\tDon't worry. This is a perfectly normal state of affairs. Had they\nactually been using him, you should be worried.\n\n\n\tHe's recovered totally from his injury. That's why he's not\npitching...so he can rest his arm enough that he can get injured again\npitching on 38 days rest and then have fun dining in the Diamond Club in\nShea Stadium while AY struggles every day out there...\n\n\n\tI've be quite happy to drop John Franco, just the same.\n\tBring back Randy Myers!\n\tNo, better make that...Bring Back Neil Allen!\n", "The term \"stopper\" is generally used to refer to a pitcher, one\nwho can be counted on to pitch a strong game to keep his team from going\non a losing streak.\n\n\tThe Braves have plenty of pitchers to fit this description,\nalthough right now I'd expect Smoltz or Glavine to take the mantle.\n\n\tWhat the Braves lack, however, is an offensive stopper,\nsomebody they can look to to bring them out of their hitting slump.\nThere's just no one there. The Braves got rid of their best pure\nhitter, Lonnie Smith, and only Terry Pendleton on the current roster\nhas ever shown more than a cursory ability to hit.\t\n\n\tOh, and another thing that worries me. Ron Gant seems to have\nslowed down a step. That's scary. A slow Ron Gant doesn't have much going\nfor him.", "\nI believe Acker got a ring from his wife when they were married\n\n \n\n\nI don't know why you guys keep bickering about Morris. The stats show he\nis a mediocre pitcher at best (this year is another case), he just happened\nto win 21 games. I saw many of his games last year, he did pitch some good\ngames. But this crap about being a clutch pitcher is nonsense, he was \nconstantly giving up go ahead runs in the 6-8th innings (the clutch innings)\nand the Jays would somehow scrape a win for him. Another major factor in\nhis 21 wins, is that Cito 'I dont realize i have a bullpen' Gaston would\nleave Morris in for ever, therefore giving him many more chances to win\ngames (i believe this is the major reason he won 21 games last year).\n\n\nBarry Walker\nBNR \nOttawa\nCanada", "Come back ten years from now and look at the careers of Juan Gonzalez vs. Mark McGuire, and then tell us how bogus the Juanderful one's 1992 HR title was. I'd say that by 2003, Juan will be preparing his HOF acceptance speech while the voters will be saying \"Mark McWho?\"\n", "Hey guys, who is this Jack Morris fella ??????\n\n\n\n\n \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nONLY JOKING !!!!! But try to lighten up will ya ? The season's only just \nstarted and everyone's apoplectic. If all you statheads out there are trying to\njustify how Morris is doing at the moment, just remember that we're talking\nabout a very small sample size. There is a helluva long way to go, so sit back\nand enjoy the ride.", "\nWetteland is on the DL effective March 26 or something like that.", "According to THE FAN here in T.O., Ottawa has won the Daigle e\nsweepstakes. They didn't mention why, but San Jose had more goals\nthan the Sen-sens, so I have a hunch this is why Ottawa would pick\nfirst.....", "\nPerish the thought...but you know, you may be right, at least as far\nas MAJOR LEAGUE professional sports teams go. They all seem to be\nbecoming BIG MONEY games, much more so than at any previous time. To\nthink that if I am ever able to move back home several years from now,\nall that may be there is an AHL team, at best...SIGH.", "Today, Frank Viola and rest of pitcher staff of Boston Red Sox shutout Chicago\nWhite Sox 4-0. It is Red Sox 9th win of this season.", "\nESPN must have some very poor marketing people. They are only concerned with\nfeaturing players (i.e. Mario) than featuring good competitive hockey.\n\n\nI've heard that this is because most of their market is East Coast and hence\nwould prefer the Wales stuff. Also, don't expect Canadian teams on ESPN.", "It has be reported that the National Baseball League has\nbeen spotted in the West Bank; they were recruiting pitchers.\n", "-=> Quoting Cire Y. Trehguad to All <=-\n\n\n CYT> Hey I am in Iowa and I do not mind ESPN showing the PITT/NJD games.\n CYT> At least I get to see the DEVILS...even if they are gettin there ass\n CYT> kicked Perhaps they will score and even win a game or two\n\n CYT> GO DEVILS\n\n\nI am sorry to tell you this, but\nI don't think the devils will win\na game against Pittsburg, the \nPenguins have so many scoring threats\nthat you shut down one and another\nwill kill you\nIt's too bad but I must conclude that the Penguins will\nwin their third stanley cup in a row.\nI hope someone will beat them, but I just cannot see it\nhappening.\n\n\nS t e v e\n\n\n\n", "\n\n\n\nThe answer is - they're stupid. Seriously, I think you're right\non the money; I've never understood the preoccupation with making\nsure a rotation has left-handed starters. The only time it makes\nsense to me is when you have an unbalanced schedule and your main\nrival(s) is loaded with lefthanded hitters. Other than that, I think\nyou're completely right.", "And then cs1442aq@news.uta.edu (cs1442aq) quoth:\n\nThat's too bad. I really had hoped Nolan could end his career with a great\nyear. I suppose there is still hope.\n", " Game two of the Detroit - Toronto series will be a rougher game. I believe\nthat Clark will be coming out hitting on all cylindars. I believe that Probert\nwill take exception to this and a fight between Clark and Probert will result.\n I know this sounds kind of ridiculous, but I know game two Toronto will come\nout hitting.\n Any takers on this issue?\n", "What position does Mike Lansing play? I cannot seem to find it \n anywhere. Thanks!!!!1\n\n\tK-->\n-- ", "\n: >In fact, the tradition has been passed down to their affiliate\n: >in Adirondack. In Gm 6 of last yr's finals, an 8 legged creature was\n: >hurled onto the frozen pond and landed right at the feet of ref\n: >Lance Roberts.\n\n: It may have been passed to Toronto, but I've even seen an octopus at\n: the Aud -- last year's Bruins-Sabres game. I knew all about the\n: Detroit version, but seeing at the Aud was a bit puzzling. :-)\n\nI don't think it's puzzling a bit. It's called \"unoriginality\".\n\n(no, i'm not bitter :)", "\n\n\n\nAnd Boris Majorov has made a 1+1 year deal with Tappara.", "A lot of teams carry 3 catchers on their 25 man roster,\nbut the 3rd catcher is seldom ever used. He is only\ninsurance in case of extra innings or the 2nd catcher\nis injured during a game. So to free up this roster\nspot for an extra pinch hitter or reliever, why not\ninvoke a catcher re-substitution rule:\n\nIf the last roster catcher on a team is\ninjured during a game, the team is permitted\nto substitute in his place for defensive purposes\na catcher who has previously been yanked from\nthe game. \n\nGiven this rule, a team wouldn't need 3 roster\ncatchers. The 3rd catcher could be playing\nin AAA or be a non-roster bullpen catcher.", "\n\n\n\n\tTRIVIA TIME!!! OK, We all know that Dave \"My Batting Average is Down\nin the\" Valle caught Chris Bosio's no hitter last night (and is batting over\n.300, BTW). Here is the question: Who caught Randy Johnson's no-hitter\nin June of 1990. (Hint: Not Dave Valle :-))", "\n\nI don't know about Canada, but I have heard from people\ndoing translation work in Papua New Quinea, that they\nlike them and have had good response on service.\n\nAnother is seriously considering buying one.\n", "Last year Brein Taylor was in A ball, probably at Tampa in the\nFlorida State League. I believe he began this year in AA which\nis Albany. Hopefully George won't rush him and he'll be\nallowed to progress at his own rate to AAA and then to the\nBronx. This guy is the real thing.", "\n\nPerhaps so. I was only responding to the \"Yankees of the 20's and 30's\" \npart of the comment. If those teams were a 'sure thing' and lost, \nthen it's probably not so unreasonable for someone to pick another \nteam (not that I did).", "Can somebody elaborate on \"Area Ruling\". I gather it's something to\ndo with aerodynamics of trans-sonic planes, and can be summarised as\n\"Coke bottle good, Coke can bad\". Anyone provide more details,\nderivation etc?", "\ncubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck\ncubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs scuk\ncubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs cuck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck\ncubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck\ncubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck\n\noh yeah, he aqlso added that harry is a drunken idiot who shoulda\nstayed in st louis where his heart is, but also added that fair weathered\nfans all like to be together. i guess this is the reason harry is now\na cub fan, bud man. note he never really left st, louis.\n\njim walker", "I don't know the exact coverage in the states. In Canada it is covered\nby TSN, so maybe ESPN will grab their coverage! I don't know!\n\nAs for the picks\nOttawa picks #1 which means it is almost 100% that Alexander Daigle will \ngo #1. He'll either stay or be traded in Montreal or Quebec. IMO I would\ntake Kariya. He should alot of leadership in the NCAA and so far in\nthe World Championships. Daigle didn't show this for his junior team.\n\nSan Jose will then get Kariya.\n\nTampa Bay will either go for a russian Kozlov (I think that's it) or a \n defenseman Rob Niedemeyer (probably spelt the last name wrong)\n\nBecause of expansion I won't go further but I will name other of the\nblue chip prospects\n\n - Chris Gratton\n - Chris Pridham\n - a swedish player who I can't remember his name\n\nDraft Order\n-----------\n1) Ottawa\n2) San Jose\n3) Tampa Bay\n4) South Florida or Anahiem\n5) South Florida or Anahiem\n6) Hartford\n7) Edmonton\n8) Dallas\n9) NY Rangers\n10) Philadelphia\n\nthe 8th thru 10th picks could be wrong - I don't have the standings here\nand am guessing \n\n(In my mind there are 8 top notch prospects in the draft, with Kariya \n leading the way but not going #1)", "\tDon't expect to get top quality, just some toughness. I don't\n\tview Makarov as a player who would add toughness.\n\n\n\tNelson, you're confusing skill and toughness.\n\n\n\tHey, get off the McGill/Hammond thing. I'm no fan of either. My\n\tpoint is that last year the Sharks had toughness that was missing\n\tthis year. This year we had more skill, I'm all for that, but\n\tif your skill players keep getting beat up and injured they\n\tcan't do you much good. Whether it's a cheap shot or not you\n\tcan't let the other teams push you around. The 1992-93 Sharks\n\tsimply got pushed around to much. Other teams knew this.\n\tThey knew they could aggressively check the Sharks and not\n\tpay for it. Adding some players in the off season who will\n\tadd some toughness to the team will help insure that next\n\tseason other teams will be more hesistant to vigorously \n\tcheck our skill players, or to take cheap shots. It doesn't\n\tguarantee no injuries (nothing does), but it's something the\n\tSharks can do to reduce the number of injuries. \n\n\tmark\n\n just say", "Tuesday's game of Beloved Yakult Swallows\n\n(At Jingu, 36,000)\nHanshin Tigers 001 000 100 |2\nBeloved Yakult 050 020 00x |7\n\nW - Ito (1-0). L - Nakagomi (0-1). HR - Yakult, Arai 1st.\n------------------------------------------------------------\nCENTRAL LEAGUE STANDING\n========================\n W L T Pct. GB\nHiroshima Carp 7 1 0 .875 --\nChunichi Dragons 6 3 0 .667 1.5\nHanshin Tigers 5 4 0 .667 2.5\nHated Giants 4 4 0 .500 3.0\nBeloved Swallows 3 6 0 .333 4.5\nYokohama BayStars 1 8 0 .111 6.5\n---------------------------------------------------------------\n\n\n--", "1993 World Championships in Germany:\n ====================================\n\n\tGroup A standings (Munich)\tGroup B\tstandings (Dortmund)\n\t--------------------------\t----------------------------\n\n\t GP W T L GF-GA P\t GP W T L GF-GA P\n\n\tSweden 1 1 0 0 1-0 2\tGermany 1 1 0 0 6-0 2\n\tItaly 1 0 1 0 2-2 1 \tCzech republic 1 0 1 0 1-1 1\n\tRussia 1 0 1 0 2-2 1\tUSA 1 0 1 0 1-1 1\n\tCanada 0 0 0 0 0-0 0\tFinland 0 0 0 0 0-0 0\n\tSwitzerland 0 0 0 0 0-0 0\tFrance 0 0 0 0 0-0 0\n\tAustria 1 0 0 1 0-1 0\tNorway 1 0 0 1 0-6 0\n\n \n April 18: Italy - Russia 2-2 Norway - Germany 0-6\n Sweden - Austria 1-0 USA - Czech republic 1-1\n\n April 19: Canada - Switzerland\t\t\t\t\t15:30\n Russia - Austria Finland - France\t\t20:00\n\n April 20: Sweden - Canada Czech republic - Germany\t15:30\n Switzerland - Italy Finland - USA\t\t20:00\n\n April 21: Germany - France\t\t15:30\n Italy - Sweden Czech republic - Norway\t20:00\n\n April 22: Switzerland - Russia USA - France\t\t15:30\n Austria - Canada Norway - Finland\t\t20:00\n\n April 23: Switzerland - Austria Germany - Finland\t\t20:00\n\n April 24: Russia - Sweden Czech republic - France\t15:30\n Canada - Italy USA - Norway\t\t20:00\n\n April 25: Sweden - Switzerland Finland- Czech republic \t15:30\n Russia - Canada Germany - USA\t\t20:00\n\n April 26: Austria - Italy France - Norway\t\t20:00\n\n \n PLAYOFFS:\n =========\n\n April 27:\tQuarterfinals\n\t\tA #2 - B #3\t\t\t\t\t\t15:30\n\t\tA #3 - B #2\t\t\t\t\t\t20:00\n\n April 28:\tQuarterfinals\n\t\tA #1 - B #4\t\t\t\t\t\t15:30\n\t\tA #4 - B #1\t\t\t\t\t\t20:00\n\n April 29:\tRelegation\n\t\tA #5 - B #6\t\t\t\t\t\t15:30\n\t\tA #6 - B #5\t\t\t\t\t\t20:00\n\n April 30:\tSemifinals\n\t\tA #1/B #4 - A #3/B #2\t\t\t\t\t15:30\n\t\tA #4/B #1 - A #2/B #3\t\t\t\t\t20:00\n\n May 1:\t\tRelegation\t\t\t\t\t\t14:30\n\t\tBronze medal game \t\t\t\t\t19:00\n\n May 2:\t\tFINAL\t\t\t\t\t\t\t15:00\n", "Scoring stats for the Swedish NHL players, April 5:\n ===================================================\n\n Mats Sundin watch:\n\n Most points during a season:\n \n 131 Kent Nilsson, Calgary Flames 1980-81 (49+82)\n 110 Mats Naslund, Montreal Canadiens 1985-86 (43+67)\n * 109 Mats Sundin, Quebec Nordiques 1992-93 (43+66)\n 106 Hakan Loob, Calgary Flames 1987-88 (50+56)\n 104 Kent Nilsson, Calgary Flames 1982-83 (46+58)\n 99 Kent Nilsson, Calgary Flames 1984-85 (37+62)\n\n Most goals during a season:\n\n 50 Hakan Loob, Calgary Flames 1987-88\n 49 Kent Nilsson, Calgary Flames 1980-81\n 46 Kent Nilsson, Calgary Flames 1982-83\n 45 Tomas Sandstrom, LA Kings 1990-91\n 43 Mats Naslund, Montreal Canadiens 1985-86\n * 43 Mats Sundin, Quebec Nordiques 1992-93\n\n Most assists during a season:\n\n 82 Kent Nilsson, Calgary Flames 1980-81\n 67 Mats Naslund, Montreal Canadiens 1985-86\n 66 Borje Salming, Toronto Maple Leafs 1976-77\n * 66 Mats Sundin, Quebec Nordiques 1992-93\n 62 Kent Nilsson, Calgary Flames 1984-85\n 61 Borje Salming, Toronto Maple Leafs 1977-78\n 61 Thomas Steen, Winnipeg Jets 1988-89\n\n Ulf Samuelsson watch:\n\n Most penalty minutes during a season:\n\n * 243 Ulf Samuelsson, Pittsburgh Penguins 1992-93 (through 3/25)\n 211 Ulf Samuelsson, Pittsburgh Penguins 1990-91\n 206 Ulf Samuelsson, Pittsburgh Penguins 1991-92\n 184 Kjell Samuelsson, Philadelphia Flyers 1988-89\n 181 Ulf Samuelsson, Hartford Whalers 1988-89\n 174 Ulf Samuelsson, Hartford Whalers 1985-86\n 170 Borje Salming, Toronto Maple Leafs 1980-81\n \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nRL Rk Name Team J# Ps Ht Wt Born G A Pts PL Comment\n-- -- ---------------- ---- -- -- --- --- -------- -- -- --- -- -------\n 1 Mats Sundin QUE 13 C 6-2 189 2/13/71 43 66 109 7 \n 2 Ulf Dahlen MIN 22 RW 6-2 195 1/12/67 33 38 71 5 \n 3 Thomas Steen WIN 25 C 5-10 195 6/ 8/60 21 43 64 5\n 4 Johan Garpenlov SJS 10 LW 5-11 185 3/21/68 21 40 61 5 \n 5 Fredrik Olausson WIN 4 D 6-2 200 10/ 5/66 13 38 51 4\n 6 Tomas Sandstrom LAK 7 LW 6-2 207 9/ 4/64 22 24 46 2\n 7 Per-Erik Eklund PHI 9 LW 5-10 175 3/22/63 8 34 42 Injured\n 8 Calle Johansson WAS 6 D 5-11 205 2/14/67 6 35 41 1\n 9 Nicklas Lidstrom DET 5 D 6-2 180 4/28/70 7 33 40 2 \n 10 Tommy Sjodin MIN 33 D 5-11 190 8/13/65 7 29 36 \n 11 Ulf Samuelsson PIT 5 D 6-1 195 3/26/64 2 24 26 1 \n 12 Mikael Andersson TBL 34 LW 5-11 185 5/10/66 13 11 24 1 \n 13 Michael Nylander HFD 36 LW 5-11 176 10/ 3/72 5 16 21 2 \n 14 Roger Johansson CGY 34 D 6-1 185 4/ 7/67 4 15 19 1\n 15 Jan Erixon NYR 20 LW 6-0 196 7/ 8/62 5 10 15 \n 16 Peter Andersson NYR 25 D 6-0 187 8/29/65 4 7 11 1 \n 17 Kjell Samuelsson PIT 28 D 6-6 235 10/18/58 3 6 9 2 \n 18 Tommy Albelin NJD 6 D 6-1 190 5/21/64 1 5 6 \n 19 Per Djoos NYR 44 D 5-11 176 5/11/68 1 1 2 Binghampton?\n 20 Niclas Andersson QUE 46 LW 5-8 169 5/20/71 0 1 1 Halifax\n 21 Thomas Forslund CGY 27 LW 6-0 185 11/24/68 0 1 1 Salt Lake\n 22 Patrik Carnback MON 20 LW 6-0 189 2/ 1/68 0 0 0 Injured\n 23 Patrik Kjellberg MON 27 LW 6-2 196 6/17/69 0 0 0 Fredericton\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nRL=Rank Last week, Rk=Rank, J#=Jersey Number, Ps=Position, Born (mm/dd/yy)\nG=Goals, A=Assists, Pts=Points, PL=Points scored since Last posted list\n===============================================================================\n\n Goalie stats:\n\n Name Team J# Ps Ht Wt Born \n ---------------- ---- -- -- --- --- --------\n Tommy Soderstrom PHI 30 G 5-9 163 7/17/69\n\n / - - - - - T O T A L - - - - - \\\n\n mm/dd vs res r w/l/t sh - sv GP MP GA GAA SOG SV SV% SO A\n ----- ---- ---- - ----- -- -- -- -- -- --- --- --- --- -- --\n 12/17 PIT 4-5 L 0-1-0 27 - 22 1 62 5 4.84 27 22 0.815\n 12/19 CHI 3-1 W 1-1-0 28 - 27 2 122 6 2.95 55 49 0.891\n 12/20 @TBL 1-4 L 1-2-0 31 - 27 3 182 10 3.30 86 76 0.884\n 12/23 PIT 0-4 L 1-3-0 26 - 22 4 242 14 3.47 112 98 0.875\n 12/26 @WAS 5-5 T 1-3-1 41 - 36 5 307 19 3.71 153 134 0.876\n 12/29 @LAK 10-2 W 2-3-1 43 - 41 6 367 21 3.43 196 175 0.893\n 12/30 @SJS 6-2 W 3-3-1 35 - 33 7 427 23 3.23 231 208 0.900\n 1/ 2 @CGY 3-7 L 3-4-1 32 - 26 8 486 29 3.58 263 234 0.890\n 1/ 3 @EDM 2-2 T 3-4-2 33 - 31 9 551 31 3.38 296 265 0.895\n 1/ 7 WAS 8-2 W 4-4-2 33 - 31 10 611 33 3.24 329 296 0.900\n 1/ 9 NYR 4-3 W 5-4-2 26 - 23 11 671 36 3.22 355 319 0.899\n 1/10 EDM 4-0 W 6-4-2 29 - 29 12 731 36 2.95 384 348 0.906 1\n 1/14 CGY 4-4 T 6-4-3 27 - 23 13 796 40 3.02 411 371 0.903\n 1/16 @BOS 5-4 W 7-4-3 37 - 33 14 856 44 3.08 448 404 0.902\n 1/17 DET 4-7 L 7-5-3 36 - 29 15 916 51 3.34 484 433 0.895\n 1/21 BOS 4-5 L 7-6-3 32 - 27 16 976 56 3.44 516 460 0.891\n 1/23 @NYI 4-8 L 7-7-3 31 - 23 17 1036 64 3.71 547 483 0.883 1\n 1/24 HFD 5-4 W 8-7-3 25 - 21 18 1098 68 3.72 572 504 0.881\n 1/30 @PIT 2-4 L 8-8-3 35 - 32 19 1157 71 3.68 607 536 0.883\n 2/ 3 @NYR 2-2 T 8-8-4 38 - 36 20 1222 73 3.58 645 572 0.887\n 2/ 9 OTT 8-1 W 9-8-4 28 - 27 21 1282 74 3.46 673 599 0.890\n 2/11 MTL 0-0 T 9-8-5 23 - 23 22 1347 74 3.30 696 622 0.894 2\n 2/13 @NJD 4-6 L 9-9-5 32 - 26 23 1407 80 3.41 728 648 0.890\n 2/14 NJD 2-5 L 9-10-5 26 - 21 24 1467 85 3.48 754 669 0.887\n 2/16 @CGY 4-4 T 9-10-6 29 - 29 25 1512 85 3.37 783 698 0.891\n 2/18 @VAN 3-2 W 10-10-6 30 - 28 26 1572 87 3.32 813 726 0.893\n 2/20 @MIN 2-5 L 10-11-6 33 - 28 27 1632 92 3.38 846 754 0.891\n 2/22 DET 5-5 - 10-11-6 15 - 12 28 1653 95 3.45 861 766 0.890\n 3/ 2 PIT 5-4 W 11-11-6 22 - 21 29 1689 96 3.41 883 787 0.891\n 3/ 5 @WAS 3-0 W 12-11-6 36 - 36 30 1749 96 3.29 919 823 0.896 3\n 3/ 7 @NJD 4-7 L 12-12-6 41 - 35 31 1808 102 3.38 960 858 0.894\n 3/ 9 @NYI 2-4 L 12-13-6 24 - 21 32 1867 105 3.37 984 879 0.893\n 3/11 WAS 6-4 W 13-13-6 28 - 24 33 1927 109 3.39 1012 903 0.892\n 3/16 MIN 4-3 W 14-13-6 34 - 31 34 1987 112 3.38 1046 934 0.893\n 3/20 @PIT 3-9 L 14-14-6 27 - 20 35 2027 119 3.52 1073 954 0.889\n 3/21 NJD 2-3 L 14-15-6 27 - 24 36 2086 122 3.51 1100 978 0.889\n 3/24 @NYR 5-4 W 15-15-6 45 - 41 37 2146 126 3.52 1145 1019 0.890 2\n 3/27 @QUE 3-8 L 15-16-6 25 - 19 38 2186 132 3.62 1170 1038 0.887\n 4/ 1 LAK 1-3 L 15-17-6 26 - 23 39 2246 135 3.61 1196 1061 0.887\n 4/ 4 TOR 4-0 W 16-17-6 26 - 26 40 2306 135 3.51 1222 1087 0.890 4\n \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nres=result, sh=shots, sv=saves\nGP=Games Played, MP=Minutes Played, GA=Goals Against, GAA=Goals Against Average\nSOG=Shots On Goal, SV=SaVes, SV%=SaVing Percentage, SO=ShutOuts, A=Assists\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nStaffan", "\n ya know that kind of funny cause I've seen Kariya on Campus\nwith a Sharks hat on.......\n\n\n\n Pat Ellis\n\n\nP.S. GO BRUINS GO UMAINE BLACK BEARS 42-1-2 NUMBER 1......\n\n HOCKEY EAST REGULARS SEASON CHAMPIONS.....\n HOCKEY EAST TOURNAMENT CHAMPIONS>......\n PAUL KARIYA, HOBEY BAKER AWARD WINNER.......\n NCAA DIV. 1 HOCKEY TOURNAMENT CHAMPIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!\n", "\n[...]\n\nThe events I saw were:\n1) Called strike by Hirschbeck\n2) Shocked-looking Gant asks for appeal to first\n3) No appeal to first\n4) Gant steps out of batters box.\n5) Hirschbeck *immediately* orders Gant back in. [bad move]\n6) Gant ignores Hirschbeck and walks off. [bad move]\n7) Hirschbeck yells at Gant. Gant is silent.\n8) Hirschbeck calls for the pitch.\n9) Pitch is called a strike.\n10) Cox argues (couldn't see when he came on the field)\n11) Cox is ejected, players everywhere\n12) Play finally resumes.\n\nGant shouldn't have ignored Hirschbeck. Not returning made the strike\ncall fairly likely. Although I suspect an argument might have gotten\nGant tossed altogether. But if Hirschbeck had let Gant step out, the\nwhole incident probably would have been avoided.\n-- \nDale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Baseball fanatic", "\nAlright, that's enough. I've suffered with all kinds of insults (as\ntypical for the net), but give me a break. Galarraga is currently\nbatting over .400 and you guys are complaining that he isn't drawing\nenough walks. What would he have to do to please you guys, bat 1.000?\nYou can hardly claim that he is \"hurting his team\".\n\nIf it happens that the pitchers start throwing him fewer good pitches\nand he starts making lots of outs (as someone speculated might happen),\n*THEN* I would agree with you that he isn't taking enough pitches. My comment\nthat \"he isn't paid to walk\" doesn't mean that he should have a license\nto swing at bad pitches and make outs; it's more along the lines of: he's\nbatting .400 and leading the league in RBI's so what bloody difference\ndoes it make if he isn't drawing a lot of walks? Sheesh.", "\nThen allow me to enlighten you, Rex. You see, there's a thing called a tie. \nA tie is worth one point (I know, I know. You're not good at math. But bear\nwith me). A win is worth two points. So, getting two ties is the same as \ngetting one win. If your team played two games, won one and lost one, you'd\nhave two points. If my team played two games and tied them both, we'd also\nhave two points. We'd be tied in the standings even though our records are\ndifferent.\n\nPerhaps you should learn something about hockey before posting again. (I am\nstarting to sound like Roger or what?)", "Note: I'm not posting this as part of an argument with Roger Meynard,\nbut as an independent sort of thread. I do actually quote some things\nthat Roger Meynard wrote, but it might be better to think of this as\n\"sampling\" his post (in the hip-hop sense) because it fits in with what\nI want to say.\n\n\nThere's an interesting parallel between this way of viewing a baseball\nteam and some people's conception of a biological organism. In the\nbiology context, we would very likely read \"fitness\" for \"the score of\nthe game\" and \"organisms\" for \"teams\". How we interpret \"players\" is\ntrickier, but either \"organs\", or \"genes\" might seem reasonable\nchoices depending on what point we were trying to make. A \"genes\"\ninterpretation actually might be really interesting in this case, \nbut that would be a different and probably longer post.\n\nIf, however, we take the \"organ\" view, then our knowledge of biology\nshould make us pause before we start saying things like \"species X is\nmore fit than species Y because of a better organ Z\". Given what we\nknow about the interdependence of organs, we would often be suspicious\nof such claims. (But note that this type of argument is quite often\nmade when you map \"species X\" onto 'humans', and \"organ Z\" onto\n'brain'). On the other hand, some statements of this kind do seem\nmore reasonable than others, as far as we can test them (e.g. 'brain'\nabove might be more reasonable than 'pancreas' assuming no gross\npathology, particularly if species Y is a primate).\n\nEven when you make such statements, you should be concerned with the\nfunctioning of the whole organism, and the possibility that one organ\nmight be more crucial for one species and a second organ in another.\n(Not to mention the possibility that no organ is particularly crucial\nin some third species.) However, if we are non-vitalists with any\nkind of reductionsit streak, we will want to say that an organism is\nnot some completely magical unanalyzable \"whole\" but an intriguing\nprocess made up of various subprocesses that interact in ways that are\npotentially observable. Some of these processes might be localized to\nparticular organs, while others may be distributed across multiple\norgans. In a way, this is just like a baseball team, except that I\nthink it is pretty clear that the processes and interactions involved\nin baseball are *much* simpler and less numerous than in most organisms.\n\n\nOne thing that is quite difficult about baseball is that perfectly\ncontrolled experiments are sometimes very tough to do. But, of\ncourse, this has never stopped researchers from doing the best they\ncan, and sometimes deriving very powerful conclusions even in the\nabsence of certainty. Most of this goes far beyond sheer speculation,\nbut even sheer speculation can motivate further interesting research.\n\n\nIn this cases, we're seeing the word \"statistics\" means \"summary of\nobserved events\", where the events themselves can be viewed as the\noutput of some process, and possibly inputs for other processes.\nThus, if we have any valid notion of how the processes are put together\ninto the functioning organism, data in the form of statistics might\ngive us a basis to test particular hypotheses.\n\n\nThis statement brings us back to the concept of fitness again.\nFitness is defined in terms of both an organism and its environment;\nyou might be fit in one situation and not another. Moving to\nbaseball, it is clear that each team spends the entire season in an\nenvironment including all the other teams in the league. In at least\na nominal sense, the division winners are the fittest teams in the\nleague, in that they (on average) had better fitness scores than any\nof their competing opponennts. But in a real sense, there is a fairly\nlarge random component in the performance of each team that is\ndifficult if not impossible to account for in terms of factors\nintrinsic to (or interesting for) baseball. The same is true in\nbiology. But here is also no direct biological equivalent of the\nWorld Series in basebal. In the world series, the random component\nmay be greatly magnified by the small number of games that are played,\nand both teams suddenly experience huge changes from the environement\nwhere they were originally successful. It might be fun to watch, but\nit's unclear what it all really means.\n\n***\n\nNow just one more un-related point:\n\n\nOn the other hand, you have seen some of us who can predict the\noutcome of the divisional races better than a random assignment of\nteams to finishes, and maybe some of us (e.g. me) who can do this\nbetter than the other participants in this forum on a regular basis.\nBut this is probably only due to the fact that a 162-game schedule\ngives you a little hope that bad hops aren't the only difference\nbetween the winners and the losers.\n\nMoreover, you've had the opportunity to see some analysis of the World\nSeries situation that makes the strong claim that *nobody* can predict\nthe WS winner with reliably greater accuracy than a coin biased only\nto reflect the well-known home vs. road effect on winning percentage.\n\n\nSince stats are summaries of events, it's true that if you know the\nevents you can derive the stats. But if somebody is trying to\nunderstand the process behind the stats, then the stats produce new\nknowledge, and some of this might even be reliable, repeatable, and\nuseful. Speaking of which, I should get back to producing knowledge\nin a different field. That is, of course, if I can produce knowledge\neven though I'm relying on stats to do it.", "If the Islanders beat the Devils tonight, they would finish with\nidentical records. Who's the lucky team that gets to face the Penguins\nin the opening round? Also, can somebody list the rules for breaking\nties.\n", " I don't\n\nWell, no problem! But I get pretty annoyed when they swing at non-strikes\nand make outs. Especially ball four on the 3-2 counts...\n\nDave", "\n\n\n\nNot totally true. For the past year or two, the AP has been getting box\nscores from STATS, Inc. The AP representative in the press box is actually\na STATS reporter ($25 dollars a game, but free parking. And anybody can\ndo it.) The box is downloaded to STATS in Chicago, some quick error \nchecking is done, and then STATS sends it to the AP. I'm not sure where\nthe appreveiations come in hear. I don't think it is at STATS's. It may\njust be a space correction by the AP sports editor that day. \n\nWhile I'm mentioning STATS reporters, they are always looking for new\npeople. Especially if you live in Cleveland or Pittsburgh, you're road\nto getting into the press box may be real short. For more info, call \nSTATS (708) 676-3322, and ask about the reporter network. It's a fun\nway to get paid for watching baseball games.\n\nEnd of public service announcement.\n\n", "\nBut ultimately their hockey philosophies are like night and day...\nKeenan believes in pressuring the opposition and taking the\ninitiative (within the limits of his system)...while Roger\nhas a reactive hockey philosophy...which is why Messier will\nbe able to and has played for Keenan, but thought Roger's way\nwas a sure loser.\n\n\nRoger is a great assistant coach...but considering what must be bad\nblood between Nielson and Messier, it would be a mistake to bring\nhim back even in that role.", "\nCould be the (folk?) song \"Clementine\". If memory serves, part of it goes:\n\n In a cavern, by a canyon,\n Excavating for a mine,\n Dwelt a miner, forty-niner,\n and his daughter, Clementine.\n\nAnyone who watched Huckleberry Hound can sing you the chorus :-) \nIs there a story/real person behind the song?", "\n\tWell, Druce pretty much sucked when he was with the Caps. He had one\ngood **playoffs** (not season). oh well. The Caps are notorious for making\nstupid trades anyway, as can be seen with the Cicarelli and Hrivnak trades.\nSigh.\n\tIn another note... I'd have to say the Caps biggest surprise was \nCote, as many Caps fans had been expecting a lot from Bondra already.\n \n\n", "\nI believe that was 4-1. Rod Brind-Amour scored at 19.59 of the third.\n\n\n\n--", "I'm\nthe\ntickets\n\nGrrrr, let's start a whole 'nother topic on show bad the sharks are doing on\nthese things. I swear that ALL of my partial plan games were televised (I\nknow, I'm exaggerating, but...).\nIn order:\n-the new ticket prices suck\n-wait 'till people try to park at games next year. Public transit? Yeah\nright, I'd love to take caltrain for 3 hours to see a 3 hour game.\n\nShelling out hundreds of dollars for partial season plans for two years\ndoesnt mean anything to the sharks, as I get to pick my seats after the dead\nrise from their graves to claim their seats! :-)\n-Frank", "\n\n\nWell then given your definition of \"best\" is it not conceivable that\nAlfredo Griffin could bring something to a team that that team needs\nto win while Larkin might not have that something the team needs?\nWould Griffin then be better than Larkin?\n \n\n\nNo, I am not trying to define the quality of an individual, at least not\nfor the purpose of ranking them. Toronto won with Olerud. They might\nhave won with Fielder. They might not have won with Thomas. Detroit\nmight have won with Thomas. Chicago might have won with Fielder. You\ncan't rank these individuals. You can only look at who might contribute\nmore to the team effort, which is winning the WS. Thomas could not\nhave contributed to that goal any more than Olerud so I cannot say that\nOlerud is less of a player. \n \n-- ", "\n While Atlanta has the undisputed best starting rotation, I feel that their\nrelief staff may be suspect. They don't have a real closer -- although\nMike Stanton (4 saves) has been used in that role. Didn't Stanton start off\ngreat last year and then falter? Despite this, your point is well taken.\nAtlanta doesn't seem to have the same personality as a NY team, thus is \nunlikely to self-destruct. For Houston to take 'em, Atlanta needs to\nsuffer some injuries, particularly to their starting rotation.\n\n\n\n From what I understand, Boever and Murphy were considered expendable by the\nclub. Houston felt that their positions could be filled by a number of\nplayers.. Art Doug Jones is the key to Houston's success. He must have\nanother great year for Houston to challenge in the NL West. \n\nlousey spring.\n\n\n Right! A strong rotation will take the pressure off of the troubling\n bullpen.\n\n\n\n The unsuspected strength of the lower part of the order has saved the\n club so far. Biggio and Finley just aren't doing their job of getting\n on base. Instead of filling his role as an RBI man, Bagwell has had to\n assume Biggio and Finley's job. Biggio concerns me, since he usually\n starts the season very strong.\n\n\n * * * * * *\n\n On a side note, are you at all concerned with the rumors concerning\nnext year's uniform? There is talk that their road uniform will be\n(blech..) traditional grey, with the word \"HOUSTON\" written across the\nchest. If I'm not mistaken, their home uniforms may totally eliminate\nthe color orange (shiver..). McLane's favorite color is red, so...\n I'm really upset.. the current unforms are dull and the new ones sound\nhorrible. I'd like to see the uniform of the mid-1980s return. They\nmay not have been pretty, but Houston had established a long precident of\nwearing the ugliest uniforms in baseball -- and I liked it.\n\n\nAstros fan since the days of Ryan, Scott, Smith, Cruz, Davis, Bass, Hatcher...", "Here is a press release from the White House.\n\n Remarks by President Clinton to NCAA Division I Champion Hockey Team\nApril 19; Q&A Following\n To: National Desk\n Contact: White House Office of the Press Secretary, 202-456-2100\n\n WASHINGTON, April 19 -- Following is a transcript\nof remarks by President Clinton to the University of Maine \"Black\nBears\" NCAA Division I hockey champions:\n\n The Rose Garden\n\n 9:58 A.M. EDT\n\n THE PRESIDENT: Good morning ladies and gentlemen. It's\nan honor for me to welcome the University of Maine Black Bears, the\nwinner of the NCAA Division I hockey national championship to the\nRose Garden and the White House. I understand from Senator Mitchell\nthat this is the first team from the University of Maine every to win\na national championship. And we're glad to have them here.\n\n I'm inspired not only by how the team pulled together to\nwin the championship, but how the entire state pulled together to\ncheer them onto victory.\n\n Coming from a state that is also relatively small in\nsize, but also filled with pride and tradition and community, I can\nunderstand how the people of Maine must feel about the Black Bears.\nIn our state people are still talking about the time we won the\nOrange Bowl over the number one ranked football team, and that was\nback in 1978. I'm sure that 15 years from now, the people of Maine\nwill as proud of this team as they are today.\n\n You know, in my state football is a slightly more\npopular sport than hockey. We don't have a lot of ice. (Laughter.)\nBut after spending three months getting banged around in this town, I\ncan understand a little more about hockey than I did before I came\nhere. Hockey is a tough game. It's a hard-hitting sport. It does\nhave one virtue though, there's a penalty for delay of game. I wish\nwe had that rule in the Senate. (Laughter.)\n\n In government as in hockey, leadership is important. In\nthe United States Senate, our team has a great captain, the Majority\nLeader and the senior Senator from Maine, George Mitchell; junior\nSenator -- Cohen looks so young, I can't imagine. (Laughter.) I'm\nactually bitter about Senator Cohen because he looks so much younger\nthan me.\n\n On your hockey team, the captain Jim Montgomery has done\na great job. He scored the winning goal late in the championship\ngame, leading you to a come-from-behind victory -- something else I\nknow a little bit about.\n\n Sport brings out the best in individuals and in teams\nand in communities. I share the pride that Senator Mitchell and\nSenator Cohen and Congressman Andrews and all the people of Maine\nmust feel for the Black Bears who have shown us all how to play as a\nteam, how to bring out the best in one another, and how to come from\nbehind.\n\n I think it's important, as I ask young people from\naround America who have achieved outstanding things in working\ntogether, to come here to the White House to be recognized and\nappreciated by their country, to remember that those kinds of values\nand those kinds of virtues need to be ingrained in all of us for all\nof our lives.\n\n We now have another role model, and I'm glad to have\nthem here today. (Applause.)\n\n (The President is presented with team jersey.)\n(Applause.)\n\n THE PRESIDENT: That's great. I love it. It's beautiful.\n(Applause.)\n\n (The President is presented with an autographed stick.)\n\n THE PRESIDENT: Thank you. That's great. (Applause.)\n\n * * * * * *\n\n Q Mr. President, did you authorize the move on Waco\nthis morning, sir?\n\n THE PRESIDENT: I was aware of it. I think the Attorney\nGeneral made the decision. And I think I should refer all questions\nto her and to the FBI.\n\n Q Did you have any instructions for her as to how it\nshould be executed?\n\n THE PRESIDENT: No, they made the tactical decisions.\nThat was their judgment, the FBI.\n\n Q Is this a raid?\n\n THE PRESIDENT: And I will -- I want to refer you to --\ntalk to the Attorney General and the FBI. I knew it was going to be\ndone, but the decisions were entirely theirs, all the tactical\ndecisions.\n\n Q What did you and Senator Mitchell talk about this\nmorning?\n\n Q Any chance for that stimulus package?\n\n THE PRESIDENT: Senator Mitchell ought to pay my\nquarter. (Laughter.) I was in there -- (laughter).\n\n SENATOR MITCHELL: You have to pay that quarter.\n\n THE PRESIDENT: I was ready. (Laughter.) Senator\nMitchell, he's worth a quarter any day.\n\n Q Any chance for your bill, sir?\n\n THE PRESIDENT: We talked about what was going to happen\nthis week in the Senate and about what other meetings we're going to\nhave for the rest of the week. We only had about five minutes to\ntalk. And we agreed we'd get back together later, around noon, and\ntalk some more.\n\n Q Senator Dole said over the weekend that your\ncompromise is no compromise.\n\n THE PRESIDENT: Well, I know he did, but, look, Senator\nDole and a lot of the other Republicans now in the Senate voted for\nthe same kind of thing for Ronald Reagan in 1983; and our research\nindicates that a majority of them over time voted for a total of 28\nemergency spending measures totalling over $100 billion when Reagan\nand Bush were President, in those administrations. And many of those\npurposes were not nearly as worthy as putting the American people\nback to work. I don't want to go back and revisit every one, but you\n\n\ncan do it. You can look at the research there. So this position\nthey're taking is not credible. We have a very tough five-year\ndeficit reduction plan. All these costs are covered during that time\nand then some. And the very people that are saying this has all got\nto be paid for don't have much of a history on which to base their\nposition. They've got 12 years of vote for stimulus measures of this\nkind that had very little to with putting the American people back to\nwork. So I think we've got a chance to work it out, and I'm hopeful.\nWe'll see what happens today and tomorrow. I'm feeling pretty good\nabout it.\n\n THE PRESS: Thank you\n\n END 10:10 A.M. EDT\n\n -30-\n", "-=> Quoting Bill Gregory to All <=-\n\n \n\n BG> hey I saw that game! I thought the Sabres looked better that you\n BG> described. It's Boston that looked weak and unsure of themselves. Even\n BG> if (big if) they (bruins) win the third game what's that going to\n BG> prove? They be lucky!\n\n\n Well now the Sabres are up 3 - 0 in games, and its to\n bad that Boston isn't putting up more of a fight as\n that could have been the best series of the playoffs,\n I think Boston will come out smoking in the next\n two games and that Buffalo will end the series in\n game six back in Buffalo, and say, how about those Islanders?\n they are up 2 - 1 on the Capitals and will probably\n win the series, only to be clobbered by the Penguins who\n should eliminate the Devils in the next game.\n I cannot see (i'm sad to say) anyone beating the \n Penguins this year (again) and they will take cup # 3 \n I'm afraid. well talk to ya later.\n\n\nSteve\n\n\n", "OK, I'll join in the fun and give my playoff predictions: \n\n1st round: \n----------\n\nPITT vs NYI: PITT in 4. \nWASH vs NJD: WASH in 6. \n\nBOS vs BUF: BOS in 5. \nQUE vs MON: MON in 7. \n\nCHI vs STL: CHI in 4. \nDET vs TOR: DET in 6. \n\nVAN vs WIN: WIN in 6. \nCAL vs LA: CAL in 5. \n\n2nd round: \n----------\n\nPITT vs WASH: PITT in 4. \nBOS vs MON: BOS in 6. \n\nCHI vs DET: CHI in 7. \nWIN vs CAL: CAL in 5. \n\n3rd round: \n----------\n\nPITT vs BOS: PITT in 5. \nCHI vs CAL: CHI in 5. \n\nFinals:\n------\n\nPITT vs CHI: PITT in 5. \n", "\nAnd Fleury is no enforcer. An agitator for sure, but Fleury never has and never\nwill have a fight, which seems to be what you're saying Wood is. \n\nThe closest Fleury ever came to fighting was a game two years ago against\nLos Angeles. There was a scrum and McSorley pinched Fleury's head under his\narm. Fleury dropped his gloves and gave McSorley a weak shot to the side of the\nhead. McSorely, knowing a good thing when he saw one, popped Fleury one right\nbetween the eyes. End of fight. Fleury got ten stitches for his trouble.\n\nThe only player I can ever see Theo fighting is Cliff Ronning, and even then\nhe'd be giving up two inches and 10-15 pounds. :-)", "\n\nIt may have been passed to Toronto, but I've even seen an octopus at\nthe Aud -- last year's Bruins-Sabres game. I knew all about the\nDetroit version, but seeing at the Aud was a bit puzzling. :-)\n", "210493\nItaly-Sweden 2-6 (0-1,1-2,1-3)\n W D L \n\tCanada 2 2 0 0 6-1 4\n\tSweden 3 2 0 1 8-6 4\n\tRussia 2 1 1 0 6-4 3\n \tItaly\t 3 1 1 1 5-8 3", "\nOh no! Say it isn't so!\n\n\nYes, Yl|nen is a draft choice of the Jets. (Assuming, of course, this\nis the same Yl|nen that played for Kiekko-Espoo in 1990-91.) He was a\n5th round, 91st overall pick of the Jets in the 1991 entry draft.\n\nI noticed in the summaries that Yl|nen had really begun to play well in\nthe playoffs.", "Could someone out there send me Pecota's stats for the last few years, or\nsomething to give me some sort of \"feel\" for what kind of player he is?\nMy mind has no handle on him at all, it bothers me. Pecota of the Braves,\nthat is. Pretty meaningful that I can't even come up with his first name,\nI think..", "\nNote that this ominous prospect is fueled by the fact that various SC\nand Prime outlets are wholly or partly owned by local NHL owners.\nWhen/If Cablevision VP Chuck Dolan's purchase of the Islanders goes\nthrough, the Islanders will be back solidly in the SCNY fold (their\noriginal owners were, and they've remained due to a lucrative TV\ncontract). The Flyer Snyders own the Philadelphia SC as well as the\nPrism pay channel. There are six teams affiliated with regional SC's,\nanother half dozen affiliated with Prime outlets, and other locals\nlike HTS and NESN who have barter arrangements. With all this\ncross-ownership, I was surprised that ESPN got the deal this \nseason!!\n\ngld", " Farr's ERA is in the\n", "NJ> : >And, while we are on the subject, has a captain ever been \ntraded, \nNJ> : >resigned, or been striped of his title during the season? Any \nother \nNJ> : >team captain trivia would be appreciated. \n \nMike Foligno was captain of the Buffalo Sabres when he was traded to\nToronto.", "In <1qvos8$r78@cl.msu.>, vergolin@euler.lbs.msu.edu (David Vergolini) writes...\n\nThere's quite a few Wings fans lurking about here, they just tend\nto be low key and thoughtful rather than woofers. I suppose every\nfamily must have a Roger Clinton, though. But remember (to paraphrase\none of my favorite Star Trek lines), \"if we adopt the ways of the Leaf\nfans, we are as bad as the Leaf fans\".\n\nRon", "Can anybody figure out why some box score abbreviations make\nabsolutely no sense? (At least in the local Gannett rag that finds its way\nto my door.) I must have stared at \"Cleman\" in the Mets' box for a\ngood 30 seconds this morning wondering who the hell it was. Wouldn't\nit make more sense to use \"Colemn\"?", "I only caught the tail end of this one on ESPN. Does anyone have a report?\n(Look at all that Teal!!!! BLEAH!!!!!!!!!)\n", "No. Do this.\n\nHave the DC-X1, make an unscheduled landing at teh 50 yard\nline during the halftime show of This years Superbowl.\n\nABC will have more reporters there for that, then at\nany news event.", "\n\tThis list brings to mind possible the worst trade since Babe for\n\tNONO NANNETTE, i.e., Milt Pappas for Frank Robinson, I think in\n\t1965 ?. Robinson proceeded to win the triple crown in 1966 and\n\tmay have beaten out Yaz in '67 but was injured on a slide into \n\tsecond when he collided with the mighty Al Weis (Chisox). ", "\n\nNonsense. I quite clearly state that it was Greg that made the claim\nthat Gainey never made an error. And he made the claim. Read below.\n\nFrom rec.sport.hockey Thu Apr 15 21:22:49 1993\nFrom: gballent@hudson.UVic.CA (Greg Ballentine)\nMessage-ID: <1993Apr15.160450.27799@sol.UVic.CA>\n\n[nonsense deleted]\n\nGainey is the best defensive forward ever. I stand by that assessment.\nHe was a very good player who belongs in the hall of fame. Did you\never watch him play? He never made a technical error.\n\n[more nonsense deleted]\n\n\nTo knowledgeable observers of the game my meaning is obvious. Your\nhockey education is not my responsibility.\n \n\nHe was just another player. To laud him as anything more I find\nbothersome. I hated the Habs. I hated Lafleur until I realized\nthat he was likely the most aesthetically pleasing player to ever \nskate in my lifetime. Why would anyone talk about Gainey?\n \n\n\nDid he play hockey at a high level? Was he any good? If not, why\nwould you bother to bring JC up? I am talking about hockey players\nhere. If you can't follow the conversation don't follow up. As I\nsaid previously, it is not my responsibility to educate you.\n\n\nSure. Two journeymen. Big deal. Neither one of them is worth\ndiscussing.\n\n\n\n\nThat is an excellent idea and if I decide to waste any more time\nresponding to any of your, or Greg's, postings then I will be sure\nto implement that very macro.\n \n\nTarasov claimed that Gainey was a \"hockey god.\" And Greg ate it up.\nAnd that is what this thread is all about. If you didn't know \nthat then why are you responding?\n\nAnd as for \"blanket disregard for these individuals\", I can remember \nLeaf teams, purely populated by such \"individuals\", winning four \nStanley Cups. Teams. No one ran around telling us that George\nArmstrong was the best hockey player in the world.\n\n\nRight. I had to get to the end of your posting before I realized you were \na complete joke.\n\nIn the future, if you are going to respond to my postings I would appreciate\nit if you could present a cogent argument supported by facts gleaned from a\nversion of reality that most of the rest of us would recognize.\n\ncordially, as always, \n\nrm\n", "1993 CALDER CUP PLAYOFF SCHEDULE AND RESULTS\t\nhome team in CAPS\t\t*=if necesary\n=============================================\n\nFIRST ROUND\t\t\t\t\t\nSpringfield Indians vs Providence Bruins\nGm 1:\tSpringfield 3\tPROVIDENCE 2\t\nGm 2:\tSpringfield 5\tPROVIDENCE 4\nGm 3:\t4/16\tProvidence at Springfield\n\nCD Islanders vs Adirondack Red Wings\nGm 1:\tLast night, CDI at Adirondack\nGm 2:\t4/17\tCDI at Adirondack\nGm 3:\t4/18\tAdirondack at CDI\nGm 4:\t4/21\tAdirondack at CDI\nGm 5:\t4/23\tCDI at Adirondack\t*\nGm 6:\t4/24\tAdirondack at CDI\t*\nGm 7:\t4/26\tCDI at Adirondack\t*\n\nBaltimore Skipjacks at Binghamton Rangers\nGm 1:\t4/16\tBaltimore at Binghamton\nGm 2:\t4/17\tBaltimore at Binghamton\nGm 3:\t4/23\tBinghamton at Baltimore\nGm 4:\t4/24\tBinghamton at Baltimore\nGm 5:\t4/26\tBaltimore at Binghamton\t*\nGm 6:\t4/28\tBinghmaton at Baltimore\t*\nGm 7:\t4/30\tBaltimore at Binghamton\t*\n\nUtica Devils vs Rochester Americans\nGm 1:\t4/16\tUtica at Rochester\nGm 2:\t4/17\tUtica at Rochester\nGm 3:\t4/20\tRochester at Utica\nGm 4:\t4/22\tRochester at Utica\nGm 5:\t4/24\tUtica at Rochester\t*\nGm 6:\t4/26\tRochester at Utica\t*\nGm 7:\t4/28\tUtica at Rochester\t*\n\nMoncton Hawks vs St John's Maple Leafs\nGm 1:\tSt John's 4\tMoncton 2\nGm 2:\t4/17\tMoncton vs St John's at Halifax\nGm 3:\t4/21\tSt John's at Moncton\n\nCape Breton Oilers vs Fredericton Canadiens\nGm 1:\tFredericton 4\tCape Breton 3\t(2OT)\nGm 2:\t4/16\tCape Breton at Fredericton\t\n\nUnfortunately the newspaper didnt list complete playoff skeds for\nseries that already began. Also, the paper has not listed final\nstandings so their posting might be delayed until early next\nweek (Hockey News).", "Ugliest swing..I am not sure. I think the ugliset stance is\nJolio Franco of the Ranger. I wonder how that bat comes around in time\nto hit the ball. It looks bad but hey.it get the job done. ", "Doug Roberts - Ken Hill for NL MVP!!\n\t Let's go 'Spos\n", "Does anyone know if the Twins games are broadcast in\ngood ole Ames Iowa??????????????", "\nWell, it looks like, just as Doug trumped Tim, beating him to the net\nwith his defensive analyses, so Tim has gotten in ahead of me.\n\nThe way I was doing it was a little different. Being me, of course, I\nused equivalent averages to work out how many runs a player was worth,\nand I calculated both rate of performance (fielding equivalent\naverage) and total performance (fielding equivalent runs). But I\ncompared, not to the average player, but the replacement player, and\nhere's why: because the positional adjustment comes built in to the\nsystem. In the AL of 1992, the average SS is 32.9 runs above\nreplacement (RAR); cf, 31.6; 2B, 28.8; 3B, 26.3; LF, 26.0; RF, 24.6;\n1B, 16.9. We may quibble with the exact numbers, but the order looks\nsubstantially right.\n\nIn the equivalent average, I have always set league average to .235. I\nhad decided in hitting that the replacement level batter has an eqa of\n.180; the name of that replacement level hitter, often as not, is\n\"Billy Ripken\". I decided to let the replacement level fielder be the\nsame distance from .235 as .180, but in the opposite direction as I\nhave set it up; that makes for an eqa of .280. (Yes, I can add. Runs\nare proportional to eqa squared; the difference between 180 squared\nand 235 squared equals the difference to 279 squared, and I rounded\noff for simplicity). An all-replacement fielding team would have:\nRandy Milligan at first (.282), Willie Randolph (.269) at second, Leo\nGomez (.279) at third, Walt Weiss (.269) at short, Kevin Bass (.271)\nin left, HoJo (.257) in center, and Eric Anthony (.277) in right. Ugh.\n\nSo, the total number of RAR for a player is the sum of his batting and\nfielding RAR. I can rate them by total RAR, or RAR per some number of\nbatting outs, like 400. An average player has a total RAR of about 55,\n30 batting, 25 fielding.\n\nTotal RAR (bat/field)\n\n1. Bonds 152 (124/28) Ventura 124 (66/58)\n2. Sandberg 143 (88/55) Thomas 122 (110/12)\n3. Van Slyke 122 (91/31) Anderson 109 (75/34)\n4. Grace 114 (70/44) Raines 100 (68/32)\n5. Lankford 111 (76/35) Puckett 98 (76/22)\n6. Pendleton 108 (71/37) Alomar 98 (75/23)\n7. Finley 104 (70/34) Martinez E 97 (81/16)\n8. Bagwell 101 (73/28) Mack 93 (70/23)\n9. Butler 96 (74/22) McGwire 93 (79/14)\n10 Sheffield 96 (85/11) Griffey 92 (70/22)\n11 Larkin 96 (65/31) Devereaux 89 (56/34)\n12 Grissom 95 (57/38) Henderson 88 (66/23)\n13 Walker 94 (61/33) Listach 87 (50/37)\n14 Justice 92 (52/40) Lofton 85 (46/39)\n15 W. Clark 91 (73/18) Baerga 83 (55/28)\n16 Kruk 82 (78/ 4) D. White 79 (39/40)\n17 O. Smith 80 (46/34) Palmeiro 76 (54/22)\n18 Gwynn 80 (47/33) Sierra 76 (52/24)\n19 Hollins 80 (68/12) Carter 73 (57/17)\n20 J. Bell 79 (42/37) Gonzalez 73 (60/13)\n\nNotable entries in a per-400 batting out rating, NL: top 7 are Bonds,\n177, LF; Sandberg, 130, 2b; Van Slyke, 114, cf; Grace, 107, 1b;\nLarkin, 102, ss; Justice, 99, rf; Sheffield, 99, 3B. One at each\nposition measured! McGriff, despite +85 batting RAR, fifth in league,\nfinishes out of the top 20 due to a -13 in fielding. Last by position: \nGalarraga 39, Stillwell -10, Hansen 30, Belliard 30 (Blauser gad a 69,\n3rd in league), May 43, Dascenzo 34, Anthony 38.\n\nIn the AL, much-maligned Rickey Henderson was worth 120, second only\nto Frank Thomas' 124; Ventura edges Edgar at third, 116-111; Grebeck\nrates a potent 102!; Griffey edges Puckett as top CF, 93-90; Listach\nnudges out Lofton among rookies, 82-80. And Alomar clearly outpoints\nBaerga, 97-73. Last by position: Segui 10, Sojo 29, Palmer 22, Lewis\n31, Polonia 40, Cuyler 26, V. Hayes 39.\n\nAll for now.", "\nFor those of you who complain about Don Cherry, and wonder why he is\npopular...\n\nthe reply is Dick Vitale and John Madden and Bobby Knight and\nJoe Garagiola and Howard Cosell.\n\nJohn Madden picks Gary Clark of the Redskins for his All-Madden team\na lot, over much better receivers...for much the same reasons Cherry\nsings the praises of Doug Gilmour...a little guy with heart...yet one\ndoesn't see a string of American posts saying that John Madden has\nlost his marbles.\n\nDick Vitale is always promoting this kid from this high school or\nthat college with outrageous statements.\n\nWhy should Americans expect that Canada would not have such characters\nin relation to our greatest passion...which is hockey? Canadians\nare very similar to Americans...culturally our sports are just hockey\nand curling, whereas with Americans it is football/basketball/baseball\nand bowling.", "This will be my last post ( promotion ) of the hockey pool.. I will \nupdate the pool ( or try to ) every wednesday\n \nSubject: Please join my hockey playoff pool. \nDeadline for pool: Midnight Saturday\nRules: Read on\nCost: NONE\nPRIZES: NONE\nSend replies to : Montana@pinetree.org\n \nNote: if your entries is send by midnight saturday it will be accepted\n please include your name\n \n Rules to the ACME hockey playoff pool \n \nCritierias\n Pick 9 forwards ( as long as they are forwards LW=RW=C is okay)\n Pick 6 defensemen\n ( arrange them in a lines, 3 forwards and two defense = 1 line \n ( and arranged them in line order , which of your players would \n ( play in the first line and which plays in the second line \n Pick 1 designated playmaker \n ( can be any positions...try a defensemen )\n Pick 1 designated scorer ( can be any positions )\n Pick 1 goal-tender\n Pick a team ( the one you think may win the cup ) \n \n *note: players can only be chosen once !\n ie Cannot have Sakic as forward and again as designated passer\n ----------------------------------------------------------------- \n \n Calculation of points: \n ( except for designated scorer and playmaker)\n 1 assist = 1 pt IXI 1 goal = 1 pt II \n ( for players in line 1, their pt totals will be *2 )\n line 1 = pts * 2\n line 2 = pts * 1.5\n line 3 = pts * 1\n 1 win = 2 pt ( for goalies)\n \n The team that wins the Cup = 10 pts\n \nFor the designated playmaker Designated\nCalculation will be as follows Scorer:Goal = 3 pts\nEvery goal scored = 0.5 points Assists = 0.5 pts\nEvery assists = 2 points\n \n In the event of a tie, the tie will be broken by unmodified \n Goal totals and then by game winning goals\n ----SAMPLE-------------------------------------\n eg designated scorer = Jeremy Roenick\n Actual: G=12, A=10, Pts=22 Modified G=(12*3) + A=(10*0.5) = 41\n . \n designated playmaker = Steve Smith\n Actual: G=1, A=11, Pts=12 Modified G=(1*0.5) + A=(11*2) = 22.5\n .\n line 1 = J Murphy(24)- G Courtnall(14)- M Messier(14)\n Dave Manson(12)- Iafrate(7)\n Total points = 142 points for that line!\n\n", "Do the Isles have another defenseman to insert into the line-up besides\nPilon??? Once again, last night's STUPID penalty put the Isles in a hole for the\nremainder of regulation and 2 minutes into overtime!!! Even though the Isles\nnearly survived Pilon's blunder in regulation, it was the most inopportune time\nfor a 5-minute major penalty. Instead of confronting Cote as he came across the\nblueline, Pilon backed up and swiped at Cote's nose with his stick. Al Arbour\ncan't be serious to think Pilon is the guy to have out there with the game on\nthe line??? I heard Scott LaChance is out till later in the series, but there\nmust be someone else!!! Bring back the BAMMER, Dave Langevin!!!!\n\n*******************************LETS GO ISLANDERS********************************\n\nJohn Scialdone\nSCIALDONE@NSSDCA.GSFC.NASA.GOV", "Did you ever notice how many people on the net have trouble in the\ncomparitively easy task of spelling the nick name of our fair city? I\nnever knew that Philadelphia becomes Phillie or Philli when spoken of. So\nfor all you who don't know yet here's a _little_ clue.\n\n\tIT IS SPELLED: P H I L L Y\n\nOK...thank you.\n\nOh yeah, about that drug-induced trade rumor....I don't think the Sniders\nare that stupid...the rumor you should be looking into is Mike Keenan\ncoming back to coach the FLYERS.\n\nlater\n\nMike\n\n-- \nMike Cornell | \"There are a great many people in the country today who,\nmac18@po.cwru.edu| through no fault of their own, are sane.\" -Monty Python", "\nLet's start over. I'm not arguing about who is the better goaltender. I'd\ntake Soderstrom right now. What I am saying is that Roussel can be a #1\nnetminder. The GAA difference is less than half a goal per game (less than\nthat after last night), their save percentages are close, and their records\nare similar. And with that, I just don't see how you can label Roussel as\nthe most disappointing player on the Flyers this season.\n\nYou say Soderstrom played against better competition. That may very well\nbe, but there is no way of knowing how Roussel would have performed in\nthose games. Besides, against the better scoring teams like Pittsburgh,\nthe defense is more keyed up than they are against San Jose.\n\n\nBut I'm not just judging Roussel on that game alone. I've seen him play\nfor the past two seasons in Philly and before that in Hershey. It's just\nmy opinion, but I think he's got what it takes. Of course, I thought that\nabout Mark LaForest, too. But I never did about Wendell Young. So I'm\nbatting .500 in judging Hershey talent since the Hextall-era.\n\nAs for the Rangers game, you can say he was saved by a mistake by the\noffensive player if you like. But Rou had his leg in position to make the\nsave. If he didn't, it wouldn't have mattered if the Rangers player didn't\nget the puck up or not. It would have been a goal. On a breakaway that's\nwhat the goalie wants to do, take away as much as possible and force the\nshooter to beat him.\n\n\nI seem to remember Roussel doing an excellent job against Pittsurgh on\nopening night to give the Flyers a tie against the two-time defending\nchamps. And not to take anything away from Soderstrom because he was\nsenational in that game agains the Habs. But you can't tell me that a\nMontreal player had an open net to shoot at some point during that game\nand just flat out missed it. Mistakes, both on offense and defense are\npart of the game. Or there'd never be shutouts.\n\nAnyway, I'm happy the Flyers have both Soderstrom and Roussel and\nI'm not going to argue about it anymore. Besides, with the current\n7-game winning streak and expectations soaring for next year, I\ndon't want to piss you off to the point that you don't sell me any\ntickets next season:-).", ": >\n: >ATLANTIC DIVISION\n: >\t\n: >\tST JOHN'S MAPLE LEAFS VS MONCTON HAWKS\n: >\tMONCTON HAWKS\n: >See CD Islanders. Moncton is a very similar team to CDI. Low scoring,\n: >defensive, good goaltending. John Leblanc and Stu Barnes are the only\n: >noticable guns on the team. But the defense is top notch and \n: >Mike O'Neill is the most underrated goalie in the league.\n: >\n\n: Bri, as I have tried to tell you since 2 February, Michael O'Neill\n: might be the most underrated goalie in the AHL, but he ISN'T in the\n: AHL. He's on the Winnipeg Jets' injury list, as he has been since\n: his first NHL start against the Ottawa Senators. He's out until\n: next year after surgery to repair a shoulder separation.\n\n: Stu Barnes might be an AHL gun for the Hawks, but he's now the third\n: line center with the Jets, and has been since mid January or so.\n\nSorry, my memory is gone. I thought that O'Neill got sent back\ndown in February but I must have been given incorrect info. I guess\nthis says it all about Moncton because Barnes is still one of\ntheir top 3 or so scorers even though he's been out since January.", "\nLearn what? I know that 3 million dollars is A LOT of money. I know \nRickey Henderson doesn't have a career out of baseball. I know if he \ndidn't have baseball, he wouldn't be making near the money he is now.\n\nI just don't understand how some athlete, who only plays a sport for a \nliving for millions of dollars, say he is not being paid enough.\n\nIf nobody will sign him for his asking price, he will be the one hurting.\nThe A's will still win without him.\n\nRemeber, many of these athletes have NOTHING if not for their athletic \nability. NOTHING. They are getting paid MUCH more than most hard working\ncitizens, and they are complaining of not enough pay.", "Well, since you mentioned it...\n\n \n\nNo question here. Chip in the Masterson as well...\n\n\nYep. \n\n\nIf you asked me 30 days ago, I'd agree with you. I now give the nod to\nRaymond Bourque; his play took off the same time the B's did. Chelios\ngets a close second...\n\n \nBarrasso finally gets his due, in a close one over Eddie the Eagle...\n\n\nIn *your* case, that bias is acceptable :-)... Mine shows with the Norris pick,\nso we're even...\n\nI'm impressed with what all the coaches you mentioned did, but my pick would be \nAl Arbour. Not too many folks thought the Isles would be in the playoffs, let \nalone contend for 3rd in their division... Granted that they *did* have a little\nhelp from their cousins on Broadway... :-)\n\nAnd I like the Islanders about as much as I like mowing my lawn...\n", "\nMaybe I'm just a child of the 80's, but I really liked the Marlins' uniforms.\nThe helmets shine nicely in the sun. It's enough to make me a fan.", "i think lamont is tryin sax out in left because he is messing with his\nmind. he is trying to stir loose the mental block that he has had.\nsax was supposed to play in left last night (4-14) but we were rained\nout. it's not like we need to add any more outfielders to our team.\n\nit's mental", ": >And, while we are on the subject, has a captain ever been traded, \n: >resigned, or been striped of his title during the season? Any other \n: >team captain trivia would be appreciated.\n;\n: Wasn't Ron Francis captain of the Whalers when he was traded to\n: Pittsburgh?\n\n And Rick Tochett was the captain of the Flyers when traded to the Pens\nrecently...\n\nCaleb\n\nAnd let us not forget that the New Jersey Devils traded\ncaptain Kirk Muller for Stephen Richer and Chorske", "\nHey American Hockey fans,\n\nAs a hockey fan I can sympathize with thefrustration that you feel. The\nproblem is that other Americans don't give a shit about hockey. They view\nit as a bunch of Canadians with bad accents and missing teeth beating the\nshit out of each other on a patch of ice when it is too warm now in\ntwo-thirds of the US to see the stuff naturally. On the other hand\nBASEBALL is the *gasp**swoon**sigh* \"NATIONAL PASTTIME\". BASEBALL is so\nromanticized in the US that you are supposed to forget that other sport\nexist after April 1 and before November 1. I feel that since ESPN shows 5+\nBASEBALL games a week they should be able to show an OT hockey game instead\nof the opening innings of a BASEBALL game. Hell, the game is going to last\n2hrs 45mins, so what if you miss the first 1 1/2 hrs? And I am an Indians\nfan! Show the end of what you started, then switch! But then, I'm a\nhockey fan, what do I know? BASEBALL is the all mighty sport.", ": >|> >(2) Having Bonds batting behind Williams means that Matt will get\n: >|> > more good pitches to hit. This is important since he struggles\n: >|> > so much with breaking balls. Opposing pitchers don't want to\n: >|> > walk Williams to get to Bonds.\n: >\n: >I have to wonder if this \"good hitter behind you\" argument is really valid.\n: >Has anyone done a study on this. \n:\n: \tYou want a study? Look at Matt Williams the year after\n: \tMitchell was gone. Look no further. Not a scientific\n: \tstudy, but it'll show the truth for Matt. Besides, Bonds\n: \t_wants_ to bat 5th\n\nI had thought that Williams batted after Mitchell. Wouldn't that show that\nWilliams does better at 5th rather than 4th?\n\nThe point is moot, though, becase Clark pretty much demands to be 3rd\nand, like you point out, Bonds does like to bat 5th. The only person\nleft to bat 4th is Williams.", "\n\n \n\n\n\n\nWhat about Thaaammy Thotha? I for one was really sorry to hear that the\nCubs had sent Heathcliff Slocumb to the minors! :-)\n", "} \n} >I watched the final inning of Bosio's no-hitter with several people at\n} >work. After Vizquel made that barehanded grab of the chopper up the\n} >middle, someone remarked that if he had fielded it with his glove, he\n} >wouldn't have had time to throw Riles out. Yet, the throw beat Riles\n} >by about two steps. I wonder how many others who watched the final out\n} >think Vizquel had no choice but to make the play with his bare hand.\n} \n} In this morning's paper (or was it on the radio?), Vizquel was quoted as\n} saying that he could have fielded the ball with his glove and still\n} easily thrown out Riles, that he barehanded it instead so as to make the\n} final play more memorable. Seems a litle cocky to me, but he made it\n} work so he's entitled.\n\ni guess so.\nstill, that's kind of a stupid move, IMO. he'd be singing a different\ntune if he had booted it, and the next guy up had hit a bloop single.\nstranger things have happened (hey, i used to be a big Dave Stieb fan...)\nand unfortunately, there's no such thing as an \"unearned hit\". :^)\n\ncheers,", "\nRob Niedermayer is a forward (center, I think) with the WHL Medicine Hat\nTigers. His brother, Scott, is a defenseman (now with the NJ Devils).", "Apparently, the public workers' strike in St John's, Newfoundland is over.\nThe strike has, since mid-January, forced the St John's Maple Leafs hockey\nteam to play their home games in other cities such as Toronto, Cornwall\nand Charlottetown. They have been playing their playoff home games\nin Halifax, Nova Scotia. Leafs' management said that they COULD\nreturn to St John's for the second round.", "\nNot to Sutter bash or anything since I idolized them as players....\nyou sure would think the Sutters would learn something about burning out their\nteams in the regular season.....just too much intensity during the regular \nseason. I earlier posted a note about Brian and got to thinking after I read\nthis item.....gee both Sutters won their divisions and now both have lost \nhome ice advantage and are getting smoked in their opening series in the\nplayoffs. Kind of makes you wonder.......\n\nBottom line....man it is great to be smoking the WartHawks!!!!!\nAgreed Jim.....this has been damn sweet, so far. About the only thing\nthat comes close to this is shutting up all the Maple Laugh fans....Detroit\nhas completely kicked their asses so far. But, I will stick with the\nBlues for providing the best playoff tonic so far.", "\nI saw a mask once that had drawings of band-aids, presumably for every puck\nthat goalie stopped with his face/head. I can't remember who it was or even\nif it was NHL (I see quite a few AHL games here).\n\nThis is by far the funniest mask I've seen, and for me funny=cool", "Sorry to everyone for wasting space. Matt, the other day you posted that\nyou were doing a mailing list of playoff stats. I lost your address. \nPlease put me on that list. Thanks.", "\nDepends on what you mean by \"for a living\". 1974 was the year he led the\nleague in pinch-hit at bats with 50, but he'd been getting a lot of PH ABs\nearlier than that, and was never a full-time player. 20-35 PH ABs early in\nhis career, 15-20 a year just before going to the Dodgers, and 30-50 in the\npeak years.\n\nWe're talking about a guy with a 20-year career as an outfielder, a .300+\ncareer batting average, and 1130 or so career hits. \n\n", "[stuff deleted]\n\nI agree with the flavor of this post, but disagree with one specific\nargument. That \"has great hands\" means nothing. It seems to me that\na first-baseman's defensive value is not entirely (or even primarily)\nfrom his ability to field grounders or catch popups. How many such\nchances does he get during a game? Many fewer than he gets chances\nto catch throws from 2B,SS,3B and P (I mean the total of these is\nmuch higher than Grounder/Popup totals). This implies to me that there\nis value in catching these throws well, even if they are high, up-the-line\nor in the dirt. \"Good Hands\" are needed for such plays, and thus have\nvalue. I don't have any numbers for the relative number of occurences\nof these plays, but I'd guess that the values of these abilities are\nsimilar. It's just like: you don't judge catcher's defense primarily\non how they field bunts and popups. (But not as marked I suppose).", "It was unlikely, improbable. For the Bruins, it was the stuff of\nnightmares; for the Sabres, it was a taste of heaven. \n For the first time since 1983, the Sabres have won the first three\ngames of a series. Last time was a three games to none victory in a\nbest of five against the Canadiens. It takes a little more work this\ntime. The Sabres seem ready to put in the extra work.\n On the heels of a shutout, one that took away Boston's home ice\nadvantage, the Sabres came back with a four to three overtime win. It\nwasn't easy. It wasn't always pretty. It still worked.\n John Blue got the nod for Boston, supplanting Andy Moog as starting\ngoaltender. Moog was pulled midway through game 2 on Tuesday.\nBuffalo started with a goal by Mogilny, his fourth of the playoffs, on\nthe powerplay, with Boston's Don Sweeney and Gord Roberts in the box.\nLaFontaine and Hawerchuk had the assists. Goal number two was\nKhmylev's first of the playoffs, a pretty goal scored when the Sabres\nstole the puck and passed to an open and waiting Khmylev. Smehlik and\nHannan assisted. Determined not to be shut out, Boston tallied on a\nshot by Ray Bourque on the powerplay, with Colin Patterson and Bob\nSweeney both in the box. Period two was scoreless, a split of\npenalties between the two clubs. The third saw Boston's Smolinski get\nhis first, courtesy of Oates. Buffalo resecured the lead two minutes\nlater, from former Bruin Bob Sweeney (Khmylev and Carney). Neely tied\nthe game 3/4 of the way through the third, sending it into overtime.\nLast year overtime meant a Bruin win. Last night, it spelled sweet\nrevenge, as Buffalo scored with Ray Bourque in the penalty box, on a\ntip in by Khmylev (Hawerchuk and LaFontaine) a minute into overtime.\nBoth teams finished with 34 shots. \n Power-play conversions--Boston 5-1. Buffalo 7-2.\n Referee--Rob Shick.\n\nComments: Shick pocketed the whistle in the third, allowing a lot of\nclutching and grabbing. Buffalo's penalty killing unit was fantastic\nagain. Mogilny was checking. Granted he missed once and instead\nflung his body into the boards, but checking like this is a novel idea\nto Mogilny. The crowd was unbelievable. I don't think I've ever\nheard a crowd that loud in the Aud for a Sabres game (remember, I was\nonly five when they played for the cup. I don't remember it and no\none took me to the games). Doug Bodger, in a postgame interview,\nnoted that he tried to say something to Hawerchuk, but the crowd was\ntoo loud, even though he was shouting. It didn't seem to matter, as\nmost of the Sabres and even Muckler said it was great. Yuri Khmylev\ndidn't seem to realize that he was the game's third star and didn't\nskate out when his name was called. Sweeney (2) and Fuhr (1) each\nwere out before Yuri made his appearance, sans jersey. When asked in\nan interview later whether he knew how big a goal that was, he\nresponed yes (ok, it was through an interpreter and he said more than\nthat, even more than the interpreter said, but I digress). The\ninterviewer seemed to think just because he doesn't speak English, he\nmust not understand playoffs. Uh-huh. \n", "\nI don't personally, but Clay just posted it. Yes, we do. \n\nUnfortunately, it shows that Lopez wasn't as good an example as Nieves would\nhave been, since his last year numbers were out of line with the previous\nyears (which I didn't have access to).\n\nThe point remains, though; knowing a guy's minor league history is as good\nas knowing his major league history, if you know how to read it.\n\n\nThe MLE is not a *projection*, it's an *equivalence*. It's a \"this is how\nwell he hit *last* year, in major league terms\" rating. So, in essence, he\nhas *already* reached it. I would guess (Bob? Clay?) that essentially half\nof all players surpass their previous MLEs in their rookie seasons. Maybe\nmore than half, since all of these players are young and improving.\n\n\nDid they? Offerman may have been the difference between 4th or 5th place\nand last place, but no more.\n\n\nSure; they didn't have anyone better. I suppose they might have gutted the\nfarm system to acquire Jay Bell or Spike Owen or somebody if they were really\nin contention. \n\n\nIf you'd read what I wrote, you'd be less amazed. Nowhere do I claim to put\nany credence in spring training. Quite the contrary; I said that Lopez hadn't\ndone anything that even the bozos who *do* put credence in spring training\ncould interpret as \"failure\". Just because I think spring training numbers\nare meaningless doesn't mean that Bobby Cox does; it's just a case of ruling\nout one possible explanation for sending Lopez down.\n\n\nKeith Mitchell did very very well at AA, AAA, and the majors over a season,\nthen did very, very poorly for a year in AAA.\n\n", "\n\n\n\tThe runner can leave his base at any time. If the ball is caught,\nhe's got to tag up. If it isn't caught, he _doesn't_ have to tag up at\nall. So, if he's feeling lucky, your runner at second can sprint for glory\nas soon as the ball is popped up. If it isn't caught, he's probably scored\na run. If it is, he's probably headed for AAA. \n\n\tThe only effect the infield fly has is to make the batter out,\nthereby removing the force on the runners on base. All other rules apply,\nas if you were standing second with first open and the ball is popped up.\n", "\n\nThis is very sad indeed. My condolences to the Minnesota fans who are\nlosing their team.\n\nI fear that within the next decade or so the only professional sports team\nleft in Pittsburgh will be the Steelers.\n\nWe should always enjoy things when we can. You never know when they'll\nbe taken away from us.", "NY Islanders 1 1 2 0 1--5\nWashington 0 2 2 0 0--4\nFirst period\n 1, NY Islanders, Turgeon 1 (King, Thomas) 13:14.\nSecond period\n 2, Washington, Hunter 3 (Johansson, Miller) 6:33.\n 3, NY Islanders, Turgeon 2 (Thomas, Vaske) 12:36.\n 4, Washington, Hunter 4 (Johansson, Carpenter) pp, 16:51.\nThird period\n 5, NY Islanders, Hogue 1 (unassisted) 3:31.\n 6, Washington, Khristich 2 (Cavallini, Bondra) 7:16.\n 7, NY Islanders, Ferraro 2 (Flatley, Hogue) 14:50.\n 8, Washington, Hunter 5 (Johansson, Khristich) pp, 19:57.\nFirst overtime\n No scoring.\nSecond overtime\n 9, NY Islanders, Mullen 1 (Ferraro, Flatley) 14:50.\n\nNY Islanders: 5 Power play: 5-0\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nFerraro 1 1 2\nFlatley 0 2 2\nHogue 1 1 2\nKing 0 1 1\nMullen 1 0 1\nThomas 0 2 2\nTurgeon 2 0 2\nVaske 0 1 1\n\nWashington: 4 Power play: 5-2\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nBondra 0 1 1\nCarpenter 0 1 1\nCavallini 0 1 1\nHunter 3 0 3\nJohansson 0 3 3\nKhristich 1 1 2\nMiller 0 1 1\n\n-----------------------------------------\nMontreal 0 0 1--1\nQuebec 3 0 1--4\nFirst period\n 1, Quebec, Leschyshyn 1 (Kamensky, Sakic) pp, 4:19.\n 2, Quebec, Young 2 (Lapointe) 11:41.\n 3, Quebec, Young 3 (Lapointe, Duchesne) 13:56.\nSecond period\n No scoring.\nThird period\n 4, Montreal, Bellows 2 (Odelein) 11:05.\n 5, Quebec, Lapointe 1 (Ricci) en, 19:23.\n\nQuebec: 4 Power play: 2-1 Special goals: pp: 1 en: 1 Total: 2\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nDuchesne 0 1 1\nKamensky 0 1 1\nLapointe 1 2 3\nLeschyshyn 1 0 1\nRicci 0 1 1\nSakic 0 1 1\nYoung 2 0 2\n\nMontreal: 1 Power play: 1-0\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nBellows 1 0 1\nOdelein 0 1 1\n\n-----------------------------------------\nNew Jersey 0 0 0--0\nPittsburgh 2 4 1--7\nFirst period\n 1, Pittsburgh, McEachern 1 (Francis, Taglianetti) 15:09.\n 2, Pittsburgh, Lemieux 3 (Samuelsson, Barrasso) sh, 17:41.\nSecond period\n 3, Pittsburgh, Tocchet 2 (Stevens, Samuelsson) 3:48.\n 4, Pittsburgh, Jagr 2 (Francis, Ramsey) 12:39.\n 5, Pittsburgh, Stevens 1 (Francis, Murphy) pp, 15:43.\n 6, Pittsburgh, McEachern 2 (Daniels, Mullen) 16:56.\nThird period\n 7, Pittsburgh, Mullen 1 (Francis, Barrasso) 17:42.\n\nPittsburgh: 7 Power play: 4-1 Special goals: pp: 1 sh: 1 Total: 2\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nBarrasso 0 2 2\nDaniels 0 1 1\nFrancis 0 4 4\nJagr 1 0 1\nLemieux 1 0 1\nMcEachern 2 0 2\nMullen 1 1 2\nMurphy 0 1 1\nRamsey 0 1 1\nSamuelsson 0 2 2\nStevens 1 1 2\nTaglianetti 0 1 1\nTocchet 1 0 1\n\nNew Jersey: 0 Power play: 5-0\nNo scoring\n\n-----------------------------------------\nBuffalo 2 1 1--4\nBoston 0 0 0--0\nFirst period\n 1, Buffalo, Presley 1 (unassisted) sh, 4:27.\n 2, Buffalo, Wood 1 (Moller, Sweeney) pp, 8:07.\nSecond period\n 3, Buffalo, Mogilny 3 (Lafontaine) 5:03.\nThird period\n 4, Buffalo, Hawerchuk 1 (Carney, Smehlik) pp, 14:48.\n\nBuffalo: 4 Power play: 4-2 Special goals: pp: 2 sh: 1 Total: 3\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nCarney 0 1 1\nHawerchuk 1 0 1\nLafontaine 0 1 1\nMogilny 1 0 1\nMoller 0 1 1\nPresley 1 0 1\nSmehlik 0 1 1\nSweeney 0 1 1\nWood 1 0 1\n\nBoston: 0 Power play: 5-0\nNo scoring\n", "How about Matt Nokes 2 run single against Ron Darling. Was that a hit or what? \nWhile watching the game yesterday they flashed up something regarding The\nBoss' talking about Mark Connor as bullpen coach. He said something like it's\nMark Connor's fault that the bullpen is so horrible!! Here we go again!! \nGeorge sticking his non-baseball nose in the baseball business. Shut up\nGeorge, just spend the money, get the players and leave Buck and the coaches\nand players alone.\n", "\nThis is incorrect. This year the Pens had 61 games on \"free\" TV and 6\ngames on PPV. Next year they will have 62 games on free TV and 22 on \na subscription basis. \n\nYou actually get 1 more free game than last year, and there will be no\nmore \"radio-only\" games.\n\nIts a good deal. Last year, everybody bitched about Baldwin \"breaking\nup the team\". Now, he goes out of his way to keep the nucleus of this\nteam together and that takes money. He comes up with a creative way\nto generate more revenue so he can afford this team, and people bitch\nsome more.\n\nEverybody wants something for nothing.\n\nDean\n\n-- ", "I know, you all were saying \"Ha! The Braves score a few runs for \nMaddux, that'll shut that guy up.\"\n\nBut no, I think we'll just keep track a bit longer...\n\nLast outing: 5 runs.\n\nTotal to date: 8 runs, 4 games\n\nBraves record in Maddux's starts: 2-2\n\nSee ya next time.\n\nDennis", "Alan Sepinwall writes\n\nGeorge will do the only logical thing he can do when the Yanks' bullpen isn't \nperforming -- fire the manager.\n", "Here's a summary of Don Cherry's Coach's Corner from April 21, 1993.\nThe game being broadcast in my region was LA and Calgary, although\nI think it was filmed during the Toronto-Detroit game that night.\n\n(Warning... Anti-fighting people may want to skip this post.)\n\nTopics\n------\n\nDon's Tie, Grant Fuhr, Penalties, Wings vs Leafs, Fighting, Dale Hunter.\n\nEpisode Summary\n---------------\n\nThis episode began with the camera zoomed in on Don's tie. Don was\npointing out the characters on the tie... Bugs Bunny, Foghorn Leghorn,\nand Yosemite Sam (who Don called Lanny Macdonald.)\n\nRon Maclean began by mentioning that Don was almost evicted from a\nhotel where he was watching the previous night's games, because of\nall the yelling and cheering he was doing over the play of Hunter\nand Fuhr.\n\nDon began to praise Fuhr, calling him the \"greatest goalie\", and\nsaid that he's winning the series against Boston all by himself.\nHe then showed clips from earlier episodes (Nov. 14, Jan. 16) when\nFuhr was still with the Leafs, and Don advised \"Don't Trade Fuhr!\"\n\nDon went on to predict that if Buffalo gets by Boston, it would\nbe Fuhr who wins the series. Muckler took a lot of heat for the\ntrade, but Don feels Muckler's been vindicated.\n\nThe next topic involved how playoff games are being ruined by\ntoo many penalty calls. He showed a clip from a Winnipeg-Vancouver\ngame, where Domi hit a Vancouver player, and was given a 2 min. penalty.\nRon said that it was called a penalty because his stick was involved,\nbut Don stuck with the opinion that it was a good hit, with Domi\nhitting the Vancouver player with his shoulder. Don: \"Its sad what\nthey're doing for hockey... a 5 minute penalty for a nosebleed.\"\n\nNext, they went to the playoff series between Detroit and Toronto.\nPeople in Detroit were calling Wendel Clarke \"Wendy\" for not fighting.\nHowever, Don pointed out that Probert was not fighting either.\n\nThis lead Don into a tirad about fighting and stickwork, and how\nbanning fighting leads to more high sticking: \"It's like college\nhockey... The little wee guy with the visor is brave as anybody.\nThat's why you're seeing so much stickwork. Because they know you\nwon't drop your gloves and give them a shot. The rules are made\nby people who don't know what's going on in hockey\".\n\nThe final topic Don discussed was Dale Hunter. Don pointed out\nthat he was leading the league in goals, and showed a clip\nof Hunter from a previous game. When he was younger, Hunter was\ntaught to \"play to win\", which differs from today's idea of\njust letting kids have fun.\n\nAt then end of the episode, they showed a clip from a coach's\ncorner, with the tape on fast forward, so that Don sounded like\none of the chipmunks.\n\nRating\n------\nTypical anti-fighting posturing, not too much humour, but some\ngood quotes.\n\nI'd give it a 7.0 out of 10.\n\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n \\ \\ |Allan Sullivan (allan@cs.ualberta.ca)\n \\ \\ |Department of Computing Science,\n \\ \\_______ |University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.\n \\ ### \\ _ |---------------------------------------------------\n \\___###___\\ (_) |My opinions are mine and mine alone.\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\"It is amazing how much can be accomplished if no one cares who gets the\n credit...\" - U. of A. Golden Bears Hockey Motto (C. Drake)", "Hey folks,\n\nSaw the Giants play ball at the 'Stick Saturday, April 17. It was the game\nwhere Pendelton broke up the scoreless tie in the ninth with a two-out,\ntwo-run homer to right to win it. (It wasn't the game where the fans \nthrew the give-away \"fotoballs\" onto the field in response to the homer --\ntoo bad, huh?)\n\nWell, the 'Stick is still cold. The Saturday game ended at 5:45pm, and it\nwas cold then. I can't imagine night games in April at the 'Stick. The\nwind kicked up a little, too, and I got this idea.\n\nAt most games, there's a pile of hot dog wrappers and cups and trash on\nthe field a lot of the time. I propose a Kid's Clean-up Corps composed\nmainly of 10-12 year old kids who would love nothing better than to run\nout on the field in the fifth inning (when the guy in the Toro smooths\nthe infield) and grab the trash.\n\nIt might not be glamorous, but at that age I probably would have given\nanything to be on the field with the ballplayers. Everybody wins here!\n\nWhaddaya think?", "\nMichael J. Fox was on Letterman about a year ago (or two) during the \nplayoffs as a celebrity hockey player for the Bruins. While he's not\nexactly a NHLer he did mention that the Bruins wanted to break Ulfie's\nlegs (or something like that) in response to the Neely incident. It\nwas quite amusing, as one of the few Letterman viewers who actually knew\nwhat he was talking about. Anybody know who the Pens celebrity hockey\nplayer is? Michael Douglas (aka Michael Keaton)?", "\n\nThe Leafs have always been kind of comical. During the second Imlach\nera, when Darryl Sittler was called a \"cancer on the team\", he tore the\nC off his sweater and for a while the Leafs didn't have a Captain.\n\nSittler eventually ended up in Philly and he was promised the Philly\ncaptaincy by new GM (and Sittler's friend) Bobby Clarke. Instead,\nSittler got traded to Detroit.\n\nRick Vaive was the Leaf Captain for awhile but he slept in one day and\nthey took the captaincy away from him. Then he was traded to Chicago.\n\nDuring Doug Carpenter's tenure as Leaf coach, in an attempt to kiss\nthe ass of a sulking Gary Leeman, the Leafs took the A away from Brad\nMarsh to give to Leeman. Leeman wouldn't take it and when they tried\nto give it back to Marsh, he wouldn't take it neither.\n\nThe best story I remember about a captain concerned Mel Bridgman, late\nof the Senators. While he was in Philadelphia, Bobby Clarke, arguably\none of the great captains of all time, was bumped up to the status of\nplaying coach and so he had to relinquish the captaincy. Bridgman be-\ncame the new captain. A reporter asked a Flyer what Bridgman did as a\ncaptain since Clarke was still the undisputed leader amongst the\nplayers. The reporter was told that Bridgman was in charge of making\nsure that the soap dispensers in the showers were always full.\n\n\n-- ", "\n\nAre you for real? How many Gold Gloves does Ozzie Smith have? If a\nguy hung around and hit 30 homers a year for 15 years, wouldn't he\nbe a given for the Hall? Is defense not just as important? And if\nRobin Yount couldn't hit, why would he have stuck around long enough\nto get 3,000 hits? Are you saying 3,000 hits is a fluke? 3,000\nhits is no big deal? \n\nI agree, Garvey and Morris don't deserve it. \n\n\nWell, based on your argument, Nolan Ryan doesn't deserve the Hall of\nFame. He is just a right hander who stuck around for a long time\nand could throw hard. Very few 20 game winning seasons, lots of\nlosing seasons, lots of walks. No Cy Young awards. How does Nolan\nRyan compare to a guy like Steve Carlton who dominated 5 or 6 Major\nLeague seasons, won 7 divisons, 2 World Series, and won half of his\nteams games in 1972? He doesn't compare. Not even close.", "\n\n: >\tI loved the ABC coverage. The production was excellent. The appearance\n: >was excellent. It had a sleek modern look. This was the first time I heard\n: >Thorne & Clement & I thought they were great. My only request is to leave\n: >Al Micheals out of this. He annoys me. \n:\n: I was skeptical before the game but was pleasantly surprised at the\n: coverage. I was particularly impressed by the close range camera coverage\n: of work in the corners and behind the play without losing a beat getting\n: back to the puck.\n\n Boy - everyone has been ripping on ESPN's hockey coverage (or is it just\nPittsburgher's who are thrilled with Lange & Steigy?) For all of you\nwho are unaware -> ESPN bought the air time from ABC and did all the \nproduction, advertising sales, commentating, etc -> and even \nreaped any $ made...", "\nTrue. William \"Dummy\" Hoy was baseball's first deaf player. He\nplayed in the bigs from 1888 through 1903 for several teams, including\nthe White Sox and Reds.\n-- \n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nBrian Curran Mead Data Central brian@meaddata.com ", " As I recall, the Penguins and Devils tied for third place last year\nwith identical records, as well. Poor Devils -- they always get screwed.\nYet, they should put a scare into Pittsburgh. They always do! Pens in 7.", "Well, it's not that bad. But I am still pretty pissed of at the\nlocal ABC coverage. They cut off the first half hour of coverage by playing\nDavid Brinkley at 12:30 instead of an earlier time slot. I don't\neven understand their problem. If they didnt think enough people would\n\nnot watch the game why would they decide to show most of the game? And\nif they showed the remaining 2.5 hours of the game, would it hurt to play\nDavid Brinkley at its regular time? They dont have any decent programming\nbefore noon anyway. I called the sports dept and blasted them on their\nmachine. I called gain and someone picked it up. When I asked him why they\npremepted the first half hour of the Stanley Cup playoffs, he seemed a bit\nconfused. When I explained a bit more in detail, he then said that's upto\nto our programming dept. call back on Monday. weel, I understand that the\nsports dept is not responsible for this preemption. BUt I can't understand\nhow someone in the sports dept. can't even recognise the name of playoffs\nshown on the very same station he works for.\n\nAnyway, I am going to call them tomorrow and blast them on the phone again.\nI urge all Atlanta hockey fans to call WSB 2 and ask them not to do the\nsame thing for the next 4 weeks.", "\n\nWell, I could become a fan ... (-;\n\nSeriously, this news coming since Thursday has effectively robbed the\nIslanders and the Devils of any airtime on sports talk shows almost\neverywhere that I've sampled ... in fact, the playoffs almost don't\nexist now. )-; Ranger fans calling in to WFAN or to New York One's\nmidnight sports talk were in a mix of fury over this season and near-\norgasm over Keenan's hiring. (Summarizing: Keenan is a winner and\nwill give the Broadway Bums 'da business' in pursuing the next Cup\nchase ...)\n\n\nThis will be an interesting combination to watch ... Keenan has been\npaid enough money to put up and shut up and just be a coach, but his\nadvice on any player moves will be listened to closely. A lot of big\nplayer moves will happen --- remember that Keenan got rid of Denis\nSavard. The country club days are over ...\n\n\nIf Paramount had given Smith an earlier sign of support and offered\nKeenan the big money to put-up-and-shut-up back in January, the\nRangers might not be heading for golf now ...\n\n\n\nOne of Keenan's first statements was a reaffirmation that Mark Messier\nwill be the team's captain.\n\n\nBy then, Smith might have some bargains on Keenan's advice ... like\nmaybe unloading Phil Bourque for Tie Domi ... (-;\n\ngld", " \n I'd have to agree with you there Joe.", "...\n\nPlease. Have a care with Phil. We liked him a lot in Pittsburgh. He\ndidn't score a lot if you look at his stats last year but he worked his\nbutt off. It was his speed that created opportunities in the offensive\nzone that allowed the Pens to utilize his potential. I haven't been\npaying attention to him this year so I can't say I know what you're \nobjecting to. He has been out with injuries though, hasn't he? And\nif the offense isn't there, there's not much his speed will do for you.\nLike I said, he created opportunities but he didn't score much. I thought\nthe money offered from the Rangers was a little high, and so did the Pens,\nI guess.\n\nJoseph Stiehm\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n...\n\nPlease. Have a care with Phil. We liked him a lot in Pittsburgh. He\ndidn't score a lot if you look at his stats last year but he worked his\nbutt off. It was his speed that created opportunities in the offensive\nzone that allowed the Pens to utilize his potential. I haven't been\npaying attention to him this year so I can't say I know what you're \nobjecting to. He has been out with injuries though, hasn't he? And\nif the offense isn't there, there's not much his speed will do for you.\nLike I said, he created opportunities but he didn't score much. I thought\nthe money offered from the Rangers was a little high, and so did the Pens,\nI guess.", "It is meaningless to compare one player's plus/minus statistic with\nanother players' out of the context of the role and the playing time\nof the players involved. \n\nTo compare Jagr's and Francis's plus/minus is ridiculous and absurd...", "\nRight on. Ticket prices are set to maximize revenue. Period. For an excellent\ndiscussion on how this works, see Gerald Scully's book of a couple of years\nback, titled (I think) \"The Business Of Baseball\".\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n We will stretch no farm animal beyond its natural length\n\n paula@koufax.cv.hp.com Paul Andresen Hewlett-Packard (503)-750-3511", "How long can the Leafs play short-handed and still be expected to\nscore? They did some fine penely-killing in the first (2 men down\nfor a couple of minutes at one point) but they just couldn't keep it \nup. They spent virtually the entire game either short-handed or\njust coming off a penelty -- as soon as they'd get re-grouped, they're\npenalized again!\n \nSheesh -- like Gilmour said after the 1st -- you can't go calling \nevery little push an shove in a game like that. And if you're going\nto, you have to do it for both teams.\n \nPearson (one of my four favorite Leafs) played like a bonehead -- I\nsaw him personally screw up at least 2 good scoring opportunities, and\nthen he got that *bonehead* 5-minute major high-sticking penalty.\n \nCullen has gotten stronger since his return from injury a hand-full of\ngames ago and he played a good game. If the other players on his line\ncan smarten up, that line should do okay. Clark's got to get tough --\nhe's got to intimidate and go for the net. Send Clark up the left \nwing over the blue line a couple times... his patented wrist shot will\nput some numbers on the board... and Pearson... heck, maybe he should\nbe benched.\n \nI hate to repeat Grapes, but where the heck was Foligno? Zezel can't\ndo all the checking himself -- and get MacLlwain on the move... we \nneed some speed out there! Keep Potvin in net, he did okay \nconsidering... although (like I said a couple weeks ago) Potvin \nmessed up in a couple games in the AHL playoffs last year -- he can \neasily do it again.\n \nMy prediction last week was Toronto in 7 -- that the games DET wins \nwill be blow-outs and the game TOR wins will be close -- I still stand\nby that.\n \nDon't fret, Leafs fans, in order to win in 7, the other team has to\nwin 3! :-)\n \nBurns is going to make some magic -- he'll mix up some lines. Match\nthe Wings line-per-line. He'll have his team checking hard, and he'll\nnever let them get out-numbered in their own end. The Leafs will win\nWednesday night... and will take 1 or their home games (probably the\nfirst one).", "Like Clinton and Reno, I accept full responsibility for this\nsenseless disaster. My wife and I picked this game to go to\nand thus caused the return of the pre-season-projected Sox\noffense. Like all no-no's Bosio was good, lucky (hard grounder\nby Vaughn off T. Martinez' glove but straight to Boone who \nthrew to Bosio at first, 3-4-1), and backed by good defense\n(many non-trivial groundouts). The game was amazingly fast,\nas the Sox tended to go down quickly and Hesketh was also \nworking fast. The Sox relief pitching was ok -- the runs off\nQuantrill were on two ridiculous bloops and a hard line single\nwhich Greenwell let get past him trying for a catch.\n\nGreenwell's mental stability is a serious concern (I guess it\nhas always been, but his quirks were amusing back when he was\nan MVP candidate). Wednesday he got in a huff with Johnson a\nafter striking out on a bad inside pitch (apparently Johnson\nmade an \"ok, I've got to stay focused\" gesture which Iron Mike\ninterpreted as taunting), and struck out to heavy booing the \nnext two times. As Valentine noted, last night he came up in\nthe first after Riles and Quintana had walked to open the game.\nCan you say \"take the first pitch\"? Not Mike, who dribbled it\ninto a 6-4-3. The PI quoted Bosio that this was a \"batting\npractice fastball\". Next time up he also hit the first pitch,\na hard liner straight to KGJr in center. He also made the\npathetic error and failed to catch Boone's HR (which looked \ncomparable to the ball Lance Johnson caught on the highlight\nreel that night).\n\nIs Riles suppsoed to be good defensively? I couldn't tell from\nthe field angle but his range looked bad, and he coughed a DP\nthat cost a run or two. Why was he leadoff? I hope Fletcher\ngets well soon.\n\nAlso on lineups, Pinella put Bret Boone fifth for reasons beyond\nme. It seemed to work, as he was 3-4 with a HR and some good\ndefense (a wag behind us said \"He sure don't want to go back to\nCalgary!\") There is a theory that you put a leadoff type fifth\nbecause they'll likely lead off the second (as Boone did).\n\nWell, now we face the hot Angels and another power pitcher in\nLangston. A reminder that contest entries are open through next\nWednesday -- I expect a surge of pessimism. By the way, ties will\nbe broken by earliest entry. One entry per person or pseudonym,\nplease, and easy on the pseudonyms.", "\n\nInteresting article, Craig. It's amazing how hard it is to get baseball\nteams to understand how to properly market their teams and treat their\ncustomers. No other business could ever get away with the 19th century \nattitudes that most current owners display in running their clubs. I guess the\nowners look at baseball's high growth rate and ask why it's necessary\nto bring 20th century business practices into the game, but they don't\nrealize how much more growth the game is capable of and how much they\npay in terms of long-term popularity by not doing better by the game\nand its fans.", "Like many others I too was watching the Caps/Isles game when the went\nto the baseball game. I too was pissed. How could they interupt such\nan important game. I understand about contracts, but you would think they\nwould have a clause in the contract concerning important games!\nAnyway, us BLUES (and Hawks) fans got shafted worse! While everyone\nin the U.S. and watched the game on ABC. However those of us who live in\nthe central Illinois area were subjected to watching the Arthritus(?)\nTelethon. The area that was most affected by the telecast did not get\nto see the game except through HAWK VISION. This game, had it been\ntelevised, would have been the first home Hawks game shown in the area\nsince 1980. This television BULL*&%$ has got to stop. We are not only\nbeing deprived of seeing games, due to skyrocketing ticket prices, but\nwe are also being deprived of watching them on TV.\n PEACE,\n HAMMER\n \n", "\nAs far as I know Dusseldorf has only one Canadian-German forward (i.e. a player\nwho was born in Canada but now has a German passport). \nBenoit Doucet became german by marriing a german and he is going to play \nfor Germany in the WC.\n\nThe other Canada-born forwards are:\n\tPeter-John Lee (has British passport)\n\tChris Valentine\n\tDale Dercatch\n\tSteve Gootas\n \tEarl Spry (?)\n\nAt the moment there are only three German-born forwards coming into my mind:\n\tBernd Trunschka, Andreas Brockmann, Ernst Koepf\n", "\nHe's been playing horrible defense. Baylor said after Wednesday's game that\nhe wanted to shake up the lineup a little, because Bichette has been\nhaving a rough time defensively and Jerald Clark has not been hitting.\nHe was true to his word; I went to Thursday's game and Gerald Young\nwas in right and Daryl Boston (who has a very hot bat) was in left.\nBaylor was careful to say though that he didn't necessarily mean for\nthese changes to be permanent but he wanted to give these other two\na shot while Clark and Bichette were not playing well.\n\nIn defense of Bichette, it looks like right field in Mile High Stadium\nis a bitch to play. Some of the visiting outfielders have been having\nsome problems too (although Bobby Bonilla made a great catch crashing into\nthe wall to rob Daryl Boston of an extra base hit in Thursday's game)", "It was my impression watching the Mets & Rockies that umpires were\ncalling strikes above the belt, too, but not as far up as the letters.\nIt would be nice if this were the case.", "Minor correction: Hartley came in the West trade to Phily. Deshaies signed\nas a free agent ($1.7M over 2 years). He pitched for San Diego last year.\n-- \nRegards,", "jayson stark (i trhink that's him) fits perfectly in this category.\n\nanyone who writes \"dean palmer has 2 homers - at this pace, he'll\n have 324 home runs!\" should be shot.\n\nif, at the end of april, he has 11, and anyone writes \"at this\n pace, he'll have 100+ homers!\" they shouldbe shot too.", "\nwrites a \"Who woulda thunk it\" article which is really the same piece\nevery time. \"Who would have thought that [Buddy Biancalana] would have\nmore home runs than [the Colorado Rockies, Babe Ruth, Omar Vizquel and\nNolan Ryan] COMBINED!\" He's an idiot, if it's the same guy.\n", "\n\tJohn Smoltz, Tom Glavine, German Jiminez, Dale Murphy, Bruce Sutter,\nPete Smith, Rick Mahler, Jim Acker, Jim \"Break on Through\" Morrison, Ron\nGant, Andres Thomas, Gerald Perry, Ozzie \"The Aeneid\" Virgil, Lonnie Smith,\nJerry Royster.\n\tHow'm I doing so far?\n\tNOTE: I am not a Braves fun.n\n\n On the other hand, ask any\n\n\tOn the other hand , II like the Braves *much* more than the\nCubs. And all I can name is Ron Santo, Ernie Banks, and Don Kessinger\nfrom 1969, my favorite Cubbie season.\n\n\n\tRight. I've watched enough Braves' games to know a great deal\nof their players. I like many of their players. The only Cubs games I\nget to see while living in New York are those against the Mets, and they\nput me to sleep because, face it, watching guys like Rick Sutcliffe and\nLuis Salazar doesn't put me at the edge of my chair.u\n\n\n\tActually, I notice a lot of anti-Toronto sentiment here in the\nStates. Partly because of some of that post-Series arrogance (thanks\nin part to \"Upside-Down Flag\" dork posts), partly because Roberto Alomar\nis about as exciting as Swiss Cheese, and partly because, living in \nBaltimore during the winters, I've become so fond of O's fans (especially\nthose who call in to Rex Barney's radio show) that I have to side against\ntheir most hated rivals.\n\n\tSorry, but METS is spelled with an \"M\" and a \"T\".... =) ", "I need the box score from the April 15 game I believe the score was 5 to 4\nif anyone can provide it for me I would appreciate it....", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n Good question! I kind of wondered about this myself. Just one\nthought I had on it - the Babe himself was IN \"Pride of the\nYankees\", which made me think\n\na) that version may be closer to the truth, and \nb) the Babe must have been a pretty good gut to be in the movie even\nthough some of the scenes didn't make him look completely flattering.\n", "\n\n\nAnd have Jesse Jackson picket the stadium?", "I agree. It was great for the ESPN people to show the Detroit game. (My\nroommate just about sh*t when they threw the octopus on the ice. (Thanks\nfor explaining the significance of that BTW)) The only problem I had was\nwhen they blotted out the local commentators with the baseball ads and\nmusic. Especially when the wings player hit the rut and went into the\nboards injuring his shoulder and they blotted out the injury report. Other\nthen that, hats off to ESPN. Now if they'll only make a habit of this. Yeah\nright! Baseball seasons started (Zzzzzz.....) =)\n\nKOZ ", "In Article: 106628 of rec.sport.baseball,\n (Roger Healey) wrote >>\n\n\nYes, the stance is new. Don Baylor was his batting coach at St. Louis last\nyear, and now, as his manager, is continuing to work with him. Maybe Andres\nhas a \"weak\" left eye and the open stance gives him a better look at the\nball. Or maybe it is simply improving his mechanics - I dunno. But the\nchange seems to have enabled him to hit the ball as well as 5 years ago. His\nselectivity has not changed.", "You're right ... I'm sick of seeing all those white guys on skates\nmyself ... the Vancouver Canucks should be half women, and overall \none-third Oriental.\n\n\f\n\n(-; (-; (-; (-; (-; (-; \n\nAnd I'll gladly volunteer myself for the overage draft. (-;\n\ngld", "Boy, hats off to any Cubs fan who can actually muster up the courage to put\ndown Braves fans. I mean, all the Braves have done is gone to two consecutive\nworld series. Also, being the Cubs fan that I am, I really have to hand it to\nall the Braves fans out there that are capable of driving me crazy with that\ninfernal cheer that they have. \n\nHowever, I do have to protest anyone saying that all Cubs fans are stupid. The\nway I see it, either I'm just too stupid to acknowledge it, or that observation\nwas just plain wrong. You might have us confused with Bear fans. ;)\n\nAnyway, about a two weeks ago just about everyone was saying that the Cubs\nwould finish up last in their division. (Even behind Florida?!? Sheesh!) \nThese same people were predicting the Braves to clean up in their respective\ndivision. Well, we're ten games into the season and these people are a little\nless vocal now. I wonder why.\n\nWell, the way I see it, the East is up for grabs, and whoever wants it most is\ngoing to take it, with the exception of Florida. Every team seems to have\ngood batting and pitching, with Philly presently leading the pack. But, I just\nhave to point out, if the Cubs do take the East, they'll do it without the\nbenefit of a competent manager. However, and it pains me to say it, the\npennant is going to go to the West.\n\nJust had to get that off my chest.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\tDoc", "\nThe overhead replay pretty clearly showed that it was the Quebec \ndefender who deflected the puck. The re-play officials did not \ntake nearly as much time to make this call as they did for the first \nnon-goal, so it seemed pretty non-controversial.\n\nI agree that it was a great game; good to see Roy and Damphousse back\ninto form. Hopefully the sign of good things to come...", "\n\n\n I agree. I also think Roy needs a good kick sometimes...that horrible\n4-0 loss to the Capitals last week...yeeeech!\n\n Here's to Cup #23...this year!\n\n \n-- \nRichard J. Rauser \"You have no idea what you're doing.\"\nrauser@sfu.ca \"Oh, don't worry about that. We're professional\nWNI outlaws - we do this for a living.\"", "Tonight will see the Toronto Maple Leafs, as some have guessed, come out \nhitting! The \"Buds\" will grind Detroit into the ground and walk away with \nhome ice advantage for the remainder of the series... which given a shift to \nToronto, will not last long. (Keep in mind this is only a predicition). \nWendall will have to get into the game however otherwise Probert will \ndominate on the physical front.\n", "The Phillies were picked to be in first.\nSomeone replied that the people who picked them were the same people who\npicked the Mets last year.\n\nMy reply: Yeah, that may be true, but this IS the Phillies.", "\nSomeone in SABR actually looked at these games a few years ago \nand found that the official scorer awarded the save in every one \nof the games - even those in which the pitcher had pitched badly \n(allowing 4 or 5 runs).", "United States Coverage:\nSunday April 18\n N.J./N.Y.I. at Pittsburgh - 1:00 EDT to Eastern Time Zone\n ABC - Gary Thorne and Bill Clement\n\n St. Louis at Chicago - 12:00 CDT and 11:00 MDT - to Central/Mountain Zones\n ABC - Mike Emerick and Jim Schoenfeld\n\n Los Angeles at Calgary - 12:00 PDT and 11:00 ADT - to Pacific/Alaskan Zones\n ABC - Al Michaels and John Davidson\n\nTuesday, April 20\n N.J./N.Y.I. at Pittsburgh - 7:30 EDT Nationwide\n ESPN - Gary Thorne and Bill Clement\n\nThursday, April 22 and Saturday April 24\n To Be Announced - 7:30 EDT Nationwide\n ESPN - To Be Announced\n\n\nCanadian Coverage:\n\nSunday, April 18\n Buffalo at Boston - 7:30 EDT Nationwide\n TSN - ???\n\nTuesday, April 20\n N.J.D./N.Y. at Pittsburgh - 7:30 EDT Nationwide\n TSN - ???", "Since someone brought up sports radio, howabout sportswriting???\n\n(Anyone give an opinion) \n\nWhich city do you think has the best sports coverage in terms of\nprint media? \n\n(these are general questions) \n\nIs the Washington Post better than the Philadelphia Inquier or the NY\nTimes? \n\nHowabout the Philadelphia Daily News compared to the New York Daily\nNews? \n", "\nNo, Brian's hurt. His hand I think. He started Saturday's game but was taken\nout. It's far too early to populate the dog house, although Bedrock was seen\nwith a milkbone.\n\n", " \n \n That's true, but according to your stats, Chicago has just as good a\nrecord as Toronto. It's interesting that you should list Toronto ahead\nof Chicago.", "As of today's USA Today (4/23) John Wetteland should come off of the DL\ntonight and possibly pitch in the series this weekend (I forget who they play.)\nDerek Lilliquist is probably going to be the main closer, but it will be kind\nof a bullpen by committee also.", "Since Roger is a Canadian who probably knows nothing about baseball\nI am gonna try to explain it to him in terms of hockey...\n\naccording to his logic...\nI can say that since 1988...Bob Errey is better than Wayne Gretzky\n\nhey...Errey contributed to 2 Cups while good old Wayne has won nothing...\n(I think the Kings should trade Gretzky for Errey....what do you think Roger?)", "I can't believe this, Howe has an ERA in the 80's He is improving!!!\n\n", "Monday, April 12, 1993\n\nKamloops 4 @ Spokane 1 (Kamloops wins 3-0)\n\n***\nWestern Final Matchup\n\nKamloops @ Portland\n***\n\nTuesday, April 13, 1993\n\nNo games necessary.\n\nWednesday, April 14, 1993\n\nNo games necessary.\n\nThursday, April 15, 1993\n\nNo games scheduled.\n\nFriday, April 16, 1993\n\nRegina 2 @ Swift Current 7 (Series: 0-1)\nKamloops 3 @ Portland 6 (Series: 0-1)\n\nSaturday, April 17, 1993\n\nKamloops 4 @ Portland 8 (Series: 0-2)\n\nSunday, April 18, 1993\n\nSwift Current 5 @ Regina 2 (Series: 2-0)\n\n\nWHL Playoff Scoring Leaders\nApril 18, 1993\n\nPlayer GP G A Pts\n-------------------------------------------------------\nJamie Black, Tacoma 7 7 15 22\nAndy Schneider, Swift Current 8 7 13 20\nValeri Bure, Spokane 9 6 11 17\nAllan Egeland, Tacoma 7 9 7 16\nDean McAmmond, Swift Current 8 9 6 15\nJason Krywulak, Swift Current 8 6 9 15\nCam Danyluk, Medicine Hat 10 9 5 14\nTodd Holt, Swift Current 8 5 9 14\nTyler Wright, Swift Current 8 5 9 14\nMike Mathers, Kamloops 10 5 9 14\nJeff Friesen, Regina 11 5 9 14\nRick Girard, Swift Current 8 3 11 14\n\n\nWHL Playoff Leading Goaltenders\nApril 18, 1993\n(minimum 60 minutes)\n\nPlayer MP GA SO GAA\n-------------------------------------------------------\nScott Langkow, Portland 295 12 0 2.44\nMilan Hnilicka, Swift Current 497 21 1 2.54\nTrevor Robins, Brandon 258 11 0 2.56\nSteve Passmore, Kamloops 341 16 1 2.82\nMark Dawkins, Red Deer 269 13 0 2.90\n\n", "\nAt the time I didn't really want the Sox to sign either. I was more\nthan a little worried about Viola's elbow.\n\nBut you *surely* remember my shout of relief when, after a week of\nrumors that Morris was coming to the Red Sox, they ended up with Viola\ninstead.\n\nNow I'm even happier. Viola seems to have rebounded nicely.\n\n\nHow long did Viola sign for. Three years? I generally agree with\ntheir policy of avoiding long-term contracts for pitchers. But I\nthink they enforce it rather too strictly. These days the premier\npitchers all sign three or four year deals. Which leaves the Jays\nwith Morris and Stewart. If the Jays want to compete for top free\nagent pitchers, they will have to accept greater risks.\n\nAny idea what the option year deal is for Morris? Are there any\nautomatic activation clauses? What is the buyout amount?f", "\n Here is my traditional experience with tickets, playoffs and otherwise,\nat the Civic Arena.\n\n Scalping is illegal but nonetheless present outside the Arena. Best \nstrategy, given that you don't mind missing the Anthem (which is OK if B.E.\nTaylor decides to come back ever again :) ) is to wait until 7:40 or 7:45,\nwhen the game is rolling; the scalpers are at this point desperate to sell\nand will reduce to near or at face value to get rid of their tickets.\n\n Playoffs are a little different in that good seats will go early on; \nwhat's left at 7:45 may be nosebleed material (D, E sections).\n\nOthers can add on their opinions as well.", "-=> Quoting Greg Rogers to All <=-\n GR> Hi all,\n GR> Due to living in the Bay Area, I as unable to see Vancouver's victory\n GR> over the Jets last night. I know the score, but that rarely describes\n GR> the game. Could someone please post a brief sonapsis (sp?) of waht\n GR> happened. How well did each team play? Were the cannucks deserving of\n GR> the victory? \n GR> Also, could some kind soul please email me the end of season,\n GR> individual player stats?\n\n GR> Greg\n\n GR> -- Vancouver for the cup (in a virtual reality)--\n\n\n\n I am sorry to tell you this Greg, but in all\n reality, we cannot see Vancouver winning the\n cup. They have a rrally good chance to come\n out of the Smythe Division, and a chance to make \n it to the finals, but no one is capable this year\n of beating the Penguins, they have too many\n scoring threats. I would love to be proven wrong, but\n I must conclude that the Pens will win cup 3 this year.\n\n\n Steve\n\n\n", "\nYeah, but what's your point? You still need the offense to score more runs\nthan you allow, too. \n\nThe Braves do have a fine pitching staff. But that's still only half the\ngame. ", "\n\n\n\nNot to mention that Lankford had been hurt two nights before running\ninto the outfield wall. This being the reason he was available to pinch-\nanything. His ribs were the problem so he could run but not hit.\nTorre is no white rat but give him credit for what he is , a pretty darn\ngood manager. with the exception of the Felix fiasco, but i'm not sure \nwho's brainchild that was.\n -BIL", "\nNot only that, but if I'm not mistaken Detroit scored 4 goals on their first\nfive shots on net...looks like Toronto's cream cheese run continues (or is\nthat swiss cheese? after watching Potvin I'm leaning towards the latter)", "\n\nI dunno about hat. I have friends up there on GEnie who are now saying that\nOttawa's gone soft on Daigle and is thinking hard about Pronger. Daigle has\nshown an Attitude the latter part of this season many folks havne't liked,\nand after coming back from his (second) multi-game suspension for being\nstupid, he's really tanked in his performance. His stock is dropping like a\nrock. \n\nAlso remember that a lot of teh \"draft 1st\" stuff comes from the assumption\nhe'll be traded to Quebec for lots of prospects. It's not clear that \nQuebec would really be willing to pay a lot for him given his current\nstatus. He's still first round, but I don't consider him a first pick lock\nby any means at this point.\n\nIt's also possible that the Senators are posturing to try to bring down his\nsigning price, since Daigle has been taking some Lindros lessons during thos\nsuspensions.\n\n\n\nNo. Kariya won't go in the first three, for a very simple reason: he's not\nleaving college, and I don't believe ANY of the expansion teams are going to\nuse a first for someone who won't be around for another year or two, not\nwhen there is equally good (or almost as good) stuff available that can make\nan immediate impact. San jose seems to be leaning heavily towards\nNiedermayer for that reason. Kariya could go 6th or 7th, unless a team can\nconvince him to leave school early (which I doubt).\n\n\nMy cut on things as they stand today:\n\n\t(it depends on if the Sharks can get a deal for him. I don't\n\tbelieve they draft him to keep him).\n", "\n\tDuh! He was making a joke about how long the Leafs would last in the\nplayoffs. (Y'know, hit the courses in the off season). Sheesh... People are\nso quick to complain...\n\n", "\nProbably because everyone (that is, everyone who has cable) can watch\nevery Braves game. They are the only team that has all of its games\nbroadcast nationwide. And if you don't like your local team, or you don't\nhave a local team, the Braves can kind of become your local team because\nyou can watch them every day.\n\n\n--I'm outta here like Vladimir!\n-Alan", "\nPierre,\nFor purposes of the tie breaker, you only count the first three games in\neach city. Therefore, Quebec cannot possibly be ahead of Montreal 4-3,\nand there's probably only one game that counts remaining between Boston\nand Quebec, which means Boston has probably already won.", "\n\n\n\nI've been watching & playing hockey for a good long time now, and\nI've seen players with questionable tactics, but never have I seen\nwhat Ray did on Sunday. This guy gets my all time loser award. It's\none thing to repeatedly cross check someone to the back of the neck\nwhen they are down, it's another thing to have a fist fight with\nsomeones balls. Ray should be thrown out of the league, what an\na**hole.", "\nPierre Turgeon of NYI, and Paul Coffey of Detorit are both #77. \n\nHope this help.", ": \n: Speaking of Paddock--what's he doing slagging Sandlak? If Sandlak puts \n: his mind to it, he can be a physical presence and waking him up might be a \n: real mistake.\n\n\tIsn't Sandbag out with an injury now anyways? Perhaps Paddock\nmeant to say that Momesso was the cheap short artist. After all, that\nwould make more sense.\n", "\n\n\n\nBut it is subject to all kinds of bias, and is almost completely useless\nfor first basemen. From the raw stats, there is no way to tell which of\na first baseman's putouts were made on throws from other fielders, and\nwhich were made on his own plays; likewise, you can't tell whether a\ndouble play was 6-4-3 or 3-6-3. Fielding Runs thus gives a first\nbaseman no credit for putouts or double plays, only for assists and\nerrors. \n\nIt thus favors first basemen who play deep, reaching a lot of balls but\nforcing the pitcher to cover first more frequently. It also hurts first\nbaseman who play behind left-handed pitching staffs and thus face few\nleft-handed batters.\n\n\nThis is better; of course, it still isn't all of a first baseman's\ndefense.\n\n\nDefensive Average, which uses larger (and probably better) zones, has\nMattingly tied for second in the league.\n\n\nWhile 233 batting runs is good, it is mostly in the past; the runs he\nproduced in 1986 don't say much about his value in 1993. \n", "\nDo you really have *that* much information on him? Really?\n\n\nI don't know. You tell me. What percentage of players reach or \nexceed their MLE's *in their rookie season*? We're talking about\n1993, you know.\n\n\nIf that were your purpose, maybe. Offerman spent 1992 getting \nacclimated, if you will. The Dodgers as a team paid a big price\nthat season. Perhaps they will reap the benefits down the road.\nDo you really think they would have done what they did if they\nwere competing for a pennant?\n\n\nFor a stat-head, I'm amazed that you put any credence in spring\ntraining. Did you notice who he got those 10 (!) hits off of, or\nare you going to tell me that it doesn't make a difference?\n\n\nWait a minute. I missed something here. First, forget Keith\nMitchell. Are you saying that a kid who moves from AA to AAA\nand then does not improve would have been better off making a\ndirect leap to the majors? If a player does well at AA and then\ndoes not improve at AAA, isn't that a sign that maybe he doesn't\nbelong in the bigs?\n\nNow, Keith Mitchell. As I recall (no stat books handy - surprise!)\nhe jumped from AA to Atlanta in 1991. He did so well that he was\nreturned to the minors, where he didn't do very well at all. Now\nhis career is in jeopardy. So how does he fit in with your \npoint. Good MLE's in AA. Moved him right to the big club. Now\nhe's one step away from being traded or moved out of baseball.\nDuh.\n\n\n\nWell, I've cast my lot. Certainly you may understand better how \ngood Lopez is. And I may overvalue experience. But neither one\nof us runs a baseball team.\n\n\n\n--\tThe Beastmaster\n\n", "\tDon't forget Paul Ysebaert, ex-Devil. He's a good team player.\nMichael Sy\nmvs1@cec2.wustl.edu\n \t\t\t /|______|\\\n ||||||||||||\n \\||||||||/ \n .---. )|||||/' \n /|||||\\ /|||||/ \n /|||||||\\ /|||||/ NEW JERSEY DEVILS\n /|||||||||\\/|||||/ \n /||||||||||||||||/ \n /||||||||||||||||/ \n /||||||||||||||||/ \n /||||||/\\||||||||/ \n /||||||/ \\||||||/ \n ''''' .____/|||||/ \n ../|||||||||||' \n /|./||||||||||||||' \n /|||||' ''' \n //|\\ \n", "discussing the fact that there were only 16 players who had ever hit 200 \nhomeruns and stolen 200 bases in their career (while HoJo was batting). \nAnyone have a list? Not as easy as it sounds to come up with all of them. \nI couldn't. Mays, Mantle, Aaron, Henderson, Morgan, Bonds (Dad), ??? \nFrank Robinson? Molitor? Yount? Guessing now. I'd be interested to see \nthe whole list.", "\nThey were, and even if Washington might consider Patty a bust, I'd rework\nthat trade in a minute. Druce has been a complete and utter bust here,\nonly 5 goals.", "This game would have been great as part of a double-header on ABC or\nESPN; the league would have been able to push back-to-back wins by\nLe Magnifique and The Great One. Unfortunately, the only network\nthat would have done that was SCA, seen in few areas and hard to\njustify as a pay channel. )-;\n\ngld", "\n\n\nHey Patrick, the Montana Magic played in Billings, not Great Falls...\n\n\nMarc, Phoenix and Houston it is... \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n _/_/ _/ _/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/_/ \n _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/\n _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/\n _/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/\n _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/\n _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _ _ _____\n_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ - - /____/\n...............................................................................\nMarc Foster, r.s.h contact for the Oklahoma City Blazers, 1993 Central Hockey\nUniversity of Oklahoma Geography Department League Adams Cup\nInternet: mfoster@geohub.gcn.uoknor.edu Champions\n mfoster@alliant.backbone.uoknor.edu \n\nTo be placed on the CHL Mailing List, send email to either address above.", "I've noticed that is has become fashionable lately in rsb to predict\nthe Marlines to finish ahead of the Cubs....how?\n\nFirst Base:\n\nGrace vs Destrade...Could Destrade be the second coming of Cecil\nFielder? I doubt it. If Destrade performs to the height of expectations,\nthen even, otherwise, edge to Cubs\n\nSecond Base:\n\nSandberg vs Barberie...No contest. Sandberg will be back May 1. Edge\nto Cubs...a big edge.\n\nShortstop:\n\nVizcaino vs Weiss...Vizcaino is excellent defensively, but is an\nautomatic out at bat. Weiss isn't much better with the stick. Even.\n\nThird Base:\n\nDave Magadan vs Buechelle...Magadan has a higher OBP and is a better hitter.\nBuechelle has more power and is better defensively (I think) Edge to\nFlorida.\n\nCatcher: \n\nSantiago vs Wilkins...Wilkins is OK, but Santiago is better. Edge to\nMarlins\n\nLeft Field:\n\nConine vs Maldonado...Wow! 4 for 4 yesterday...I know Conine has potential.\nI watched him play at Omaha the last couple years. Until he actually proves\nhimself, I give Maldonado the edge, however, like at 1B, this is position\nwhere Florida might be even or better *if* the player there has a huge year.\n\nCenter:\n\nScott Pose vs Wilson/May...Edge to May, even if Wilson. Hopefully the\nCubs will use may and save Wilson for pinch running and the like. May\nisn't Ken Griffey Jr, but he will hit .275 with 15 homers if he plays\nfull time.\n\nRight:\n\nFelix vs Sosa...Felix Jose has occasional power and a bad OBP. So does\nSosa, but Sosa also has speed and a good glove. Edge to Cubs\n\nStarters:\n\nAquino? Armstrong? Hammond? A lot of fifth starters here. The Cubs won't\nremind anyone of the Brave staff, but Morgan-Castillo-Guzman-Hibbard\nis average to OK...better than the Marline. Edge to Cubs\n\nMiddle Relief:\n\nEven. The Cubs have some decent middlemen, and so do the Marlins.\nCarpenter anf Klink or decent, but so are Assenmacher and McElroy.\n\nCloser:\n\nA healthy Harvey is a big edge to the Marlins. Meyers is decent, but\nno Harvey. Of course, the Cubs may have a few more games to save.\nLook for 30 saves, 5 blown from Meyers, and 25 saves, 3 blown (with\na better ERA) for Harvey. Edge Florida.\n\nOverall, an edge to Chicago.\nNeither of these teams will threaten to win anything, of course.\ne\n--\nmsilverm@nyx.cs.du.edu\t\t\t\tGO CUBS!!!", "\n\nPerhaps it was Trottier. It happened behind the Habs goal if I recall.\nGainey simply didn't have his head up as he was picking up the puck.\n\n\nIf Gilmour was taken completely by surprise, as Gainey was, then yeah,\nI would have to say that Doug wasn't playing \"technically\" smart \nhockey. In any case, to claim as Greg did, that Gainey *never* made \na technical mistake is absolutely ludicrous.\n\n\nGood for you. You'd only be displaying your ignorance of course, but to \neach his own...\n\n\nI think Gainey should feel honoured to know that he is remembered at \nall.\n\n\nCertainly pluggers are an integral part of any team. And that is\nsimply because there are not enough solid two-way players to go \naround. Who would you rather have as your \"checking\" centre? Doug\nGilmour or Doug Jarvis? For that matter I would take either Gretzky\nor Mario as my \"checking\" centres. Do you think Gretzky could cover\nBob Gainey? \n\n\nYou're wrong again. The Selke is awarded to the forward that does the\nbest job defensively and this may or may not be the best plugger. If \nGilmour does the best defensive job in the league I don't see why he \nshould be out of the running simply because he also contributes offen-\nsively.\n\nSettle down? If you think that I have likened the Selke to the Nobel\nprize then I suggest that you had best \"settle down\". And if you are\ngoing to try to put words in my mouth, let me suggest that you \"settle \ndown\" before you bother following up on my postings. \n\n\nYou might consider developing your own style. After all, imitation is \nthe sincerest form of flattery and I am quite sure that flattery is not \nyour intention.\n\ncordially, as always,\n\nrm\n", "Bobby Bonilla supposedly use the word 'faggot' when he got mad at that author\nin the clubhouse. Should he be banned from baseball for a year like Schott?\n", "\n\nI think a compromise would work; namely honouring personages in \nConference names, and using geographical references in the divisional \nnames. Although I still do not think the move will draw fans to the\ngame; IMO it's a cosmetic change that Bettman and the owners _hope_ \nwill have an effect. And it doesn't say much for the mentality of \nanybody it works on, either. \n\n\nSurprise, I agree totally. The points system is fine, if everybody at all\ntimes has played the same number of games. Since this is almost never the\ncase, winning percentage is the way to go. I don't particularly care if it \nis an \"American\" thing either, if it works. \n\n", "Sutcliffe gives up 3 HRs (Gonzales 1, Palmer 2) and Mills gives up\n1 HR (Gonzales) to lose 7-4. Sutcliffe\n\nTexas 7 10 0 Lefferts 1-0\nBaltimore 4 9 0 Sutcliffe 0-1\n", "\nA HBP, but it reminds of my favorite (apochryphal ? sp ?) Don Drysdale story.\n\nWhen ordered to intentionally walk a batter who had hot-dogged on him in\ntwo previous at-bats, Drysdale reared back with the first pitch and\ndrilled him right in the ribs.\n\nHis manager came storming out of the dugout and yelled \"What did you do that\nfor ?\"\n\nDrysdale growled back, \"What are you complaining for ? I saved you three\npitches !\"\n\nIncidentally, if this is true, I'd love to know the other people involved.\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTed Kury | \"One man stands... and the wall, cracks... and the wall, \nSUNY at Buffalo | cracks... and the wall, cracks... and the wall comes\nDept. of Economics | crumbling down.\" - Anthrax ", "\n\nI haven't heard any news about ASN carrying any games but the local\ncable station here in St. John's (Cable 9) is carrying the games live!\n\nHey, it's better than nothing!\n\nGO LEAFS GO!!!\n\nDale", "Hi- Does anybody know the # for ticket info for Fenway?\n\nThanks", "\n\tThe only problem is, Dave Kingman was *always* taking off.\nRosh Hashana, Yom Kippur, Easter, the day Elvis died (8/16), the entire\nspring training month of Ramadan, Purim, the 4th of July (both games \nthat day), my birthday (OK, during the World Series, he never had to \nplay there), Memorial day (both games that day), ...\n\tGuys, help me out here. I've run fresh out of holidays that \ncoincide with the baseball season and I'm trying to catalogue all the\ndays in his career that Dave Kingman (or at least his bat) went AWOL.\n\tA complete religious calendar detailing every holiday in every\nextant religion in the Western Hemisphere would be appreciated. Only\nthen can we truly be certain that Dave Kingman observed every holiday\never conceived...\n\t:-), of course ...NOT!\n", "\n That brings up an interesting point. Anyone else catch ESPN's piece about\nprospects and the relationship between age, career length, MVPs and Hall of\nFame members? It was part of their preseason special. Basically, they looked \nat players that had amassed 1000 plate appearances (or ABs) by the time they\nwere 24, and noticed some interesting things. \n\n For starters, they found out such players comprised the majority of MVPs in\nthe history of the game. They also found out such players represented the\nmajority of the players in the hall of fame. The kicker, though, was that\nthey actually did some number-crunching and found that such players' careers\nlasted much longer than the careers of players not in that group. They also \nfound that these players produced at both a greater level of performance and\nproduced over twice the raw totals (HRs, etc) of the other players. The first\ngroup outhit the second something like .282 to .260 in raw BA, and blew away\nthe second group in such categories as HRs, 2Bs, RBIs, etc. \n\n It was the most impressive thing I've seen on ESPN in recent memory. \n\n I guess Ray Knight makes his rebuttal tonight. \n ", "\nStole 300 bases. (Ok, he's still light-hitting, but baseball managers don't\nthink so, they think he, like Omar Moreno before him, is a perfect leadoff\nman. Awesome defense.)\n\n\nHe's still around because of his 1986, when he hit 20 HR.\n\n\nHasn't played 10+ years in the bigs. Wasn't a full-time major-leaguer\nuntil 1988.\n\n\nConsistent .300 hitter.\n\n\nWe'll see if he's still around in 1994 for his tenth year.\n\n\nSame goes for Herm.\n\n\nDoesn't count then.\n\n\nRedus is hardly light-hitting, plus he stole 300 bases. Close to\n800 OPS career against LHP.\n\n\nWe'll see if he's still around in 1995 to qualify.\n\n\nSlugged .416 to .440 for three straight years in one of the worst hitters'\nparks in the NL. He's going to be one of Colorado's better players this\nyear. Plus, to make ten you have to count all the time he spent in Denver\nand Buffalo and Hawaii while with the White Sox.\n\n\nColeman, assuming he makes it to 1994, was never perceived as being\nweak offensively, though of course he was. Led NL in SB his first six\nyears in the majors.\n\n\nWe'll see if he's still around in 1997.\n\n\nWilson has always been overrated, but hit .300 five times in a six-year\nstretch and led the league in triples five times. But we can count him\nif he's still playing in 1994, though it'll be because he's Otis Nixon\ndeluxe with slightly worse defense.\n\n\nOkay, if he's in the league this year, he can count, though he's also\nin the majors because of Otis Nixon syndrome.\n\n\nHe's not spectacular, but he's neither light-hitting nor a ten-year man.\n\n\nHalfway there, and unlikely to make it 3/4 of the way there.\n\n\nBrock suffered from Otis Nixon disease, but he wasn't perceived as\nlight-hitting. Neither was Curt Flood. Cesar Cedeno was *not* light-\nhitting.\n\n\nHe'll have to steal a lot more bases.", "\n\n\nWell, it seems that the Habs have been much talked-about of late, so here's my\n$0.02. These guys have absolutely no concept of how to play in front of the\ndamn net!!! Watch them in the offensive zone, especially on the powerplay. \nDamphousse or Lebeau will skate all over the bloody zone, maybe pass to the\npoint, get it back, skate some more, pass it around....BUT WHERE'S THE SHOT??!\nAnswer: the shot is totally useless because they lack a forward who stands\nin front of the net a la` Neely, Shanahan, Tocchet, etc etc. Too bad \nDemers won't put Dipietro or LeClair on the powerplay more often. Dammit,\neven Ewen would at least cause some disruptions. Montreal desperately needs\na power forward with some talent, IMO.\n\nThen watch them in their own zone. Patrick Roy is screened on everything. Say\nwhat you want about his performance; IMNSHO he cannot stop what he cannot see. \nAnd Montreal's defence does a miserable job of clearing the front of the net. \nLast night against Washington Roy played a *great* game. The first goal came\non the most ridiculous goalmouth scramble I've seen in a long time, and he\ndidn't have a hope in hell of stopping the shot. The second goal came on a\ndeflection of a shot he only partially saw anyway. Pathetic defence. The\nthird goal was EN.\n\nNo wonder he gets pissed off at his defencemen.\n", "\n\nTake a look at the standings. It's REAL easy to get so focussed on \nminutinae and forget that the Giants happen to be in first place. If it's\nworking, you don't SCREW IT UP by changing things, just because you think it\nought to be different.\n\nSome folks like to argue about theoretical details. I prefer to watch teams\nwin. When the Giants slip to third, then we can talk about how to re-arrange\nthe batting order. Until then, I think it's stupid to focus on what's wrong,\nfor the simple fact that IT'S WORKING AS IT IS.\n\n\nIn the majors? I don't follow AL, so I won't comment on \"Majors\". In the NL,\nif I had my choice of any 1B in the league for my team, it'd be Clark, and\nI'd hit him third. (My fantasy team has both Grace and Murray on it, because\nI've never been able to GET Clark. I'd take any of the three without\nhesitation in real life, but I think Clark is it).\n\nWilliams: Not even close. I much prefer his defense, but when he isn't\nheadcasing it, Matt has a good, solid swing and some real punch. If he drops\nto .230, then he wanders out of cleanup, but according to the latest\nBaseball Weekly, he's hitting .275, and in the last week, hitting .296.\nThat's not exactly chopped liver.\n\nMostly, though, the Giants are winning, and frankly, as long as that\ncontinues, it's rather silly to second-guess their strategy. But evidently,\nsome folks would rather be right than be first.\n\n", "OK, OK, OK. First, my apologies for perhaps being untimely with this subject material and perhaps overly optimistic in my request, but here goes anyhow:\n\nI'm *very* interested in finding out how I might be able to get two tickets for the All Star game in Baltimore this year. My very aged folks live about 50 miles away and I know it would be a great thing for them to attend the game. I went with them, and my grandfather who got me into baseball as a small child, to the All Star game in DC many years ago. Although I'm now in the SF Bay Area, I'd *love* to be able to treat my folks to this game; it's absolutely the last chance they'd ever have to attend this g\n\n\n\n\name locally.\n\nAny info would be greatly appreciated!!!!", "\n\tThe garbage started hitting the field well before the Sunday\ngame. It started on Thursday or Friday (I can't recall which games I\n*didn't* watch on TBS). Deion was getting pelted with trash the whole\ntime, it seemed. The announcers talked about the change in the seating\nin the bleachers, and how that made it easier for the events that\ntranspired. I actually thought at the start of the Sunday slugfest that\nsince it was a Sunday daygame the crowd would be a little different,\nmore refined. Surprise?\n", "\n\nIt depends. If you can get your old veterans cheap, and if they can perform\nat a higher level than your young talent can *now*, why not the talent \ndevelop in the minors while giving the fans some familiar names to cheer.\nIf the veterans are gone in a year or two -- that should be just about right.\n\n\nOpen question -- which was more important to the expansion clubs, the expansion\ndraft or the regular draft. (They've had one of each, I think.)\n-- \nDale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Baseball fanatic", "\nStankiewicz? I doubt it.\n\nKoufax was one of two Jewish HOFs: the other is Hank Greenberg.\n\nOther good players: Buddy Myer, Johnny Kling, Norm and Larry Sherry,\nKen Holtzman, Saul Rogovin, Ed Reulbach. \n\nThere have been over 150 Jewish major leaguers. A few years ago there\nwas an article about someone who keeps track of this in Spy magazine;\nthe article was entitled \"Jews on First,\" of course.\n\nThere have also been at least two books on the subject.", "Do you realize that the yankees are paying Matt Nokes 2,500,000 dollars \nthis year!!!! GEESH. And Maas only gets 125,000. \n\n\n\nBy the way, the yankees are going to WIN IT ALL\n\n\nYankees are the BEST.\n\n", "\nWhen is it did you say? Well let me shell out here and run this\nhandy dandy program....\n\n$ mlb -m pit phi\n\nAnd the answer is:\n\n Monday, 5/10 Pittsburg at Philadelphia (5:35 pm) \n Tuesday, 5/11 Pittsburg at Philadelphia (5:35 pm) \n Wednesday, 5/12 Pittsburg at Philadelphia (5:35 pm) \n Friday, 6/25 Philadelphia at Pittsburg (5:35 pm) \n Saturday, 6/26 Philadelphia at Pittsburg (5:05 pm) \n Sunday, 6/27 Philadelphia at Pittsburg (11:35 am) \n Friday, 7/30 Pittsburg at Philadelphia (5:35 pm) \n Saturday, 7/31 Pittsburg at Philadelphia (5:05 pm) \n Sunday, 8/ 1 Pittsburg at Philadelphia (11:35 am) \n Monday, 9/27 Philadelphia at Pittsburg (5:35 pm) \n Tuesday, 9/28 Philadelphia at Pittsburg (5:35 pm) \n Wednesday, 9/29 Philadelphia at Pittsburg (5:35 pm) \n Thursday, 9/30 Philadelphia at Pittsburg (5:35 pm) \n", "\n\nWood is fairly small for an enforcer-type. I mean, Fleury does a pretty good\njob and isn't that large, but Dody is no Fleury. \n\nHaving been witness to three or four of his fights closeup, he simply isn't\nready to fight at an NHL level (assuming that it's his role, which is ALL he\nreally showed us in his few games up from K.C. -- if he can pass, shoot or\nskate, I never saw much of it). All he has is a right fist, which isn't bad,\nbut at the NHL level, the other players are smart enough to grab the thing\nbefore he can land anything significant. Once you control that hand, he's a\nfish flopping on the beach and the other player can do just about anything\nhe wants to him. His entire strategy seemed to be keep the hand out of reach\nuntil he found an opening -- and I never once saw him find an opening worth\ntalking about. He got neutralized quickly, and stomped on a couple of times.\n\nUnless he shows some new tricks in camp, he'll be on my \"career minor\nleaguer\" list. Since this was his first taste of the NHL, I expect the\nSharks gave it to him so he'd KNOW what he'd have to work on off-season. He\nneeds to get stronger, he needs to get more speed and he needs to show some\nversatility as something else than a simply goond, because he wasn't\nparticularly good as a goon.\n", "\nBut why McGwire, and not Carter? I can see some justification for Bonds or\nThomas, because they tend to have higher batting averages, but the major\ndifference I see between McGwire and Carter is that Carter doesn't draw\nwalks. Why aren't pitchers afraid to throw strikes to Carter?", "Is it just me, or does Bichette look totally lost in the outfield? He \nmisplayed Martinez fly-out into a double against the Expos, misplayed\nAlou's single into a triple (Alou tagged out at 3rd after over-sliding \nthe bag) and now he misplays another out into a 3 run triple...add in his\nwonderful batting average and we have one heck of a player!", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\nIs the answer as simple as that you dislike russians???\n\n\n\n\nAnd where would canadian hockey be today without the europeans?? Dont say\nthat the european influence on the league has been all bad for the game.\nI mean, look at the way you play these days. Less fights and more hockey.\nImho, canadian hockey has had a positive curve of development since the\n70's when the game was more brute than beauty......\n\n\nOh, look!! You don't like Finns either....\n\nToo bad almost all of you northamericans originates from europe.....\n\nHmmm... And what kind of a name is Rauser. Doesn't sound very \"canadian\" to\nme. ;-)", "Finally, an objective source. Alomar's a great player, but so is Baerga.\nNice to see the objective source cited rather than \"my dad's bigger than\nyour dad\" posts.", "Having run completely out of time, I've got to get my prophesies and\npredictions for the A.L. out. Qualifications -- one of the worse\nfinishes in last year's prediction contest.\n\nAL East -- 1993\n\n1. Baltimore Orioles\nWhy the Orioles? Well, I pondered long and hard, and it all came down to\nthis:\n -- The Blue Jays are going the wrong direction.\n -- Can't bring myself to pick the Yankees\n -- Milwaukee was a fluke\n -- Indians aren't ready to contend\n -- Red Sox were bad last year, and didn't get any better\n -- Detroit's pitching will be the new definition of \"replacement level\"\n\"But you don't really think the Orioles will win, do you.\" No. As a matter\nof fact, I can't see any team in the American League winning either division\non paper (with the possible exception of the Yankees, who I hate). But some-\nbody has to win, so I pick the Orioles. \"You don't really think that Brady\nAnderson is going to repeat, do you?\" No. I'm basing the Orioles prediction\non the expectation of big years from Cal Ripken and Glenn Davis. \"Glenn\nDavis? That's insane\". Yes. So, without further ado:\nSTRONG POINTS: Hoiles, Ripken some years, Olson, getting rid of Billy Ripken.\nWEAK POINTS: Segui may start. Valenzuela (the original 30-something) may be\n the fifth starter. Oates puts his best hitters at the bottom of the lineup.\n (Does anybody else think that might be a calculated maneuver to minimize\n the effect of a slumping Ripken? If you can't move Ripken out of the #3\n spot, why not move the rest of the line up?)\nWOULD BE A GOOD SIGN: Glenn Davis wins comeback player of the year.\nWOULD BE A BAD SIGN: In a tight pennant race, team trades for Pecota.\nObPrediction: \"The Streak\" continues. Harold Reynolds leads the team in\n caught stealing.\n\n2. New York Yankees.\nSTRONG POINTS: Abbot, Key, Perez. Could have best pitching in American\n League. Boggs should improve on Hayes.\nWEAK POINTS: Mattingly still considered best hitter. The Steinbrenner \n factor. (The Yankees lost to the Mets. Can wholesale changes be far\n behind?) Never count on rookie pitchers (i.e. Wickman & Millitello) to\n win a division.\nWOULD BE A GOOD SIGN: Boggs hits over .300\nWOULD BE A BAD SIGN: Howe gets arrested again.\nObPrediction: Mattingly won't top a 700 OPS.\n\n3. Toronto Blue Jays\nSTRONG POINTS: Management willing to make big deals. Management has eerie\n power to convince other teams its prospects are not suspects. Olerud.\n Guzman. Alomar.\nWEAK POINTS: The Jackson for Bell trade has shaken my faith in Gillick.\n Losing Stewart may hurt rotation (that's *really* a bad sign). No one in\n the outfield can get on base. Pitching is thin behind Guzman and Ward.\nWOULD BE A GOOD SIGN: Jack Morris considered Cy Young contender in August\nWOULD BE A BAD SIGN: Club makes no major deals in August.\nObPrediction: Morris will post better ERA and WHIP totals than last year. And\n have a losing record.\n\n4. Milwaukee Brewers\nSTRONG POINTS: Pitching staff was exceptional -- last year.\nWEAK POINTS: Molitor gone. Surhoff at third? Why? Eldred can't keep it up.\nWOULD BE A GOOD SIGN: Listach and Eldred play like last year.\nWOULD BE BAD SIGN: Bones plays like last year.\nObPrediction: Surhoff won't finish the year at third.\n\n5. Cleveland Indians\nSTRONG POINTS: Baerga, Belle, Nagy\nWEAK POINTS: Pitching staff thin -- losing Olin really hurts. Starts Felix\n Fermin.\nWOULD BE A GOOD SIGN: Bielecki's ERA is consistent with his Atlanta starts.\nWOULD BE A BAD SIGN: Ted Power -- bullpen ace.\nObPrediction: Alomar will be back on the DL by the all-star break.\n\n6. Boston Red Sox\nSTRONG POINTS: Clemens, Viola, Clemens, Detroit, Clemens\nWEAK POINTS: Most incompetent GM in baseball. Key free agent signing -- Andre\n Dawson. Burks is gone -- Hatcher in center.\nWOULD BE A GOOD SIGN: Rainouts in between Clemens starts.\nWOULD BE A BAD SIGN: Clemens on the DL\nObPrediction: Russell will make Sox fans forget Reardon. Interpret that how\n you will :->\n\n7. Detroit Tigers\nSTRONG POINTS: Tettleton, Phillips, Whitaker\nWEAK POINTS: If Fielder keeps declining, he'll be a shortstop this year.\n Worst rotation in baseball entirely replaced -- but not necessarily better.\n This year could be *very* ugly.\nWOULD BE A GOOD SIGN: Cecil Fielder deserving the MVP.\nWOULD BE A BAD SIGN: Cecil Fielder not whining about deserving an MVP.\nObPrediction: Cecil *won't* lead the league in RBIs.\n\nOne more division to go....\n-- \nDale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Baseball fanatic", "\nHopefully, a miracle (o.k. not quite a miracle, but close!) will occur and\nPittsburgh will be elminated prior to the finals. If they make it again, \nthey will probably keep the Cup. If they don't, it's the Hawks' turn!\n\nGO BLACKHAWKS!!\n\nCONGRATS TO JEREMY ROENICK FOR BEING ONLY THE 2ND HAWKS PLAYER TO POST \nBACK TO BACK 50 GOAL SEASONS!!", "\n\tBeing a proud BU alumnus, I'd like to get a list of BU players in \nthe NHL so I can keep an eye on their progress. A lot of Terriers are\ngraduating this year so I hope to see them soon in the NHL. If somebody\ncould post or send me a list, I'd appreciate it. Please note if the player\ngraduated from here or not.\n", "\n\n\n\n\nUm, what? Eddie Murray was a superb first baseman for a *long* time.\n\nWinfield as produced consistently for almsot 20 years, and excellently\non several occasions. \n\nDave Kingman's *best* year was like Darryl Strawberry's *typical*\nyear with the Mets. \n\nDarrell Evans, too, did a whole lot more than just hit homers, which \n*is* all that Kong did. \n\n\n\nWhom are you talking about? Yes, Eddie Murray is marginal, but that's\nbecause he's 38 years old. He wasn't marginal for a *long* time.\n\n\n\nNot. \n\nSmith has hung around for a long time AND fielded the position better \nthan anyone else ever has.\n\nYount stopped being a shortstop about a decade ago, in case you hadn't \nnoticed.\n\nOne of his two MVP awards was as a centerfielder.\n\n\n\nLike whom? There are many players in the Hall who aren't anywhere near\nas goos as the guys you're running down.\n\n\nThat's already the case, by some standards. But the *bad* players in the \nHall are all from the 20's and 30's. Recent picks have generally been\nexcellent.\n\n\nNo, but who cares? Was Stan Musial anywhere near as good as Babe Ruth?\nNot really. But he obviously belongs there.\n\nThe Hall has generally had about the top 1% of major leaguers. As \nmore players come through the game, more will be in that top 1%. \n\nAnd, yes, it's pretty easy to argue that Smith,. Yount, Evans, Winfield,\netc. are in the top 1%. Dave Kingman on the other hand, was a liability\nthroughout most of his career.\n\nOf course, Garvey *hasn't* gotten a lot of HOF press, so I don't know\nwhat you mean. \n\nAs for Ryan, is his W-L better than Morris'? That's what a lot of voters\ntend to look at. And Morris *was* awfully good for a decade, and doesn't\nlead MLB history in walks allowed, either.", "\nThere is NO TEAM, repeat, NO TEAM, that is America's team. This is a diverse\ncountry with 26 MLB teams (+2 up north) and there is no one team that is\nAmerica's. Who would the other teams belong to?\n\nAnd how does it happen? Well, teams receive this monicker through success\n(Cowboys), national exposure (Cubs), or both (Braves). It spreas aby\nsuccessful advertising campaigns. Harry Caray, Ted Turner, amd other dupe\npeople into thinking that their representative teams are \"hip\" so that people\nwill watch them on TV and buy their products. Arrogant local fans adapt the\nmonicker and think that \"their\" team is the one that America idolize", "You might want to clarify the 11 game winning streak. That Pens streak\nis a PLAYOFF streak (tied by the Chicago Blackhawks, who had won 11 in a row\nuntil they met the Pens in the finals last year) The 18 game unbeaten, so far,\nis a regular season unbeaten streak. But hey, don't take it personally. I'm a\nFlyers fan and two in a row is a stretch. But with a healthy Lindros, Recchi,\nBrind'amour and Tommy Soderstrom, they'll be there next year!\nBy the way, since the Flyers need defenseman, what kind of trade would\nanybody suggest from the existing Flyers roster since the scuttlebutt is that\n\nTerry Carkner won't be there next year and apart from him a piece of notebook\npaper would be better defense.", "\n\nI wish I hadn't sold my copy of Jewish Baseball Stars. It's a Short Shelf\n(i.e., the one on top of the toilet tank) Special. The writing in that \nbooks is so astonishingly awful -- every sportswriting cliche taken to\nthe nth degree and then mangled -- that it's funny.\n\nRusinow is the author, I think.", ": \n: Of course, penalties will have to be changed:\n: \n: Roughing:\tChauvanistic Males Being Aggressive\n: Slashing:\tChauvanistic Males Venting Frustration\n: Fighting:\tProof That Males Cannot Cope With Their Feelings\n: \n\nNO NO NO! since all the penalties fall into three classes, there should\nonly be three penalties:\n\n1. Foul (Any illegal contact with the other player or his stick with your\n body or stick). If you get 5 you are out for the game.\n\n2. Unsportsmanlike contact. (An intentional foul). This inlcludes all the\n current flavours of roughing, fighting and boarding. If you get two you\n are thrown out of the game, and fined.\n\n3. Technical foul. Bad mouthing the ref, by player or coach. Penalty shot\n is awarded. Two and you are thrown out of the game.\n\nBesides the penalty shot for one technical, if the team gets 5 penalties\nin a period, the opposing team gets a penalty shot for every additional one,\nuntil the end of the period. The victim gets two shots if he/she was in\nthe act of shooting when the foul ocured.\n\nThis works well for several reasons. First, penalty shots are the most\nexciting thing in hockey, right? So, it follows that the more the better.\nNext, when the player is setting up for a penalty shot, the network can\ntake a commercial. Finally, with only three penalties, the network\nannouncers (Don Meredith, Dick Vitale, John Madden, Pat Summerall, and\nMarv Levy, among others) will be able to tell the viewers what happened before\nthe PA announcer says it.\n\nOh, one other rule. When a goal is scored (10-20 times a period), the play\ncannot resume until the PA announcer announces it. This way, the network\ncan sneak in a few more commercials. Then, once the PA announcer has told\nthem who scored, the TV announcer can tell you the viewer, and even have a \nchance of pronouncing his name right.\n\nSeriously, though, I actually went to see a NBA basketball game last week,\nfor the first time in my life. I was amazed how boring it was. The play is\nso slow they actually had fans come out for things like free-throw shooting\ncontests DURING THE PERIOD!. Of course the 'Laker Girls' get to do their \nroutines at least 6-8 times during the game, and not just between periods\neither. There is a whistle every 30 seconds on average, maybe less. The\ngame is 48 minutes, with 2 minutes between quarters 1-2 and 3-4 and a\n10 minute halftime, and it still takes over 2 hours.\n\nThe reason for this has to be TV. There is plenty of room to throw in\ncommercials, and have the announcer jabber while nothing else is happening.\nOn TV, basketball is fairly entertaining, IMHO. But, it is better to watch\nit on TV than to be there. If this is the road the NHL is following, then\nit truly is a sad day.\n\nEnough for now.", "Total Baseball, which also tries to evaluate a player's total offensive\nand defensive contributions, gives Barry Bonds a Total Player rating of\n9.0 for 1992. Only one other player since Ruth attained that mark: Cal\nRipken for his 1984 season. Rounding out the top five offensive players\nin the NL last season: Sheffield, 5.9; Sandberg, 5.8; Van Slyke, 5.3; and\nLarkin, 4.7.\n\nThe top 5 offensive players in the AL in 1992 were: E. Martinez, 4.8;\nVentura, 4.8; Anderson, 4.5; R. Henderson, 4.4; and Thomas, 4.4\n\nIn short, Total Baseball says Bonds enjoyed one of the best seasons\never in the game's history -- better than any year had by Mantle,\nMays, Williams, etc. (If you disagree, don't flame me; flame the\nwriters of Total Baseball.) Also, Martinez and Ventura are neck and\nneck, so given the shortcomings of any statistical analysis, which one\nhad the better year can be considered a toss-up. Thus, Total Baseball\nsupports your choices of Bonds and Ventura as the MVPs of 1992.\n\n\n\n--\n--------------------------\nPhil Brown |\naka pb6755@csc.albany.edu |", "I would like to make everyone aware that in winning the NL West the Atlanta\nBraves did not lead wire-to-wire. Through games of 4/14/93 the Houston\nAstros are percentage points ahead of the \"unbeatable\" Braves.\n\n\nGo Astros!!!!!", "\nPress conference at 1PM ...\n\n\nInterestingly, Keenan's co-coach (or is it his \"Number One\"?) on Team\nCanada at the World Championships is Roger Neilsen. \n\nIt'd be interesting if the Rangers call in the balance of Neilsen's\ncontract to be Keenan's assistant ... Roger did do a very good job\nwith the mediocre players, just as he handled the Cinderella Canucks\nof 10 years ago ... but his mistake was playing the Rangers like those\nCanucks last May ...\n\ngld", "\nY'know, if current trends continue, the Florida Marlins will be the first\nexpansion team to go 162-0 and outscore their opponents by 486 runs.", "\nThis was a concession to Mansbridge and CBC News, they argued that if you're\ngoing to play havoc with the schedule, you should at least make sure that\nPrime Time is aired as soon as possible. News got a commitment that the\npost-game show would be scrapped and that the network would go to PTN within\none minute or so of the game ending.\n\nAs for the earlier comments about CBC being \"Ontariocentric\" frankly\nthe no doubleheader decison goes both ways, people in the West cant see\nthe Leafs and people in Central Canada can't see the Jets game. The\nreason for the decision was CBC's feeling they couldn't sell advertising\nfor six hours of hockey in one night.\n\n As for who wants to see news over hockey, a lot of people. CBC always gets\nplenty of complaints about juggling the news schedule.\n\n", " \n \n \n \n \n \n Where is Roger anyway? Haven't heard from him in awhile. He must\nbe out on the golf course waiting for the Leafs to join him any day\nnow. : )\n \n ", "\n\nCool. And thank you for an intelligent response devoid of the silly\nname-calling of others. :)\n\n\n One of the basic things you need to \n\nOK.\n\n\nActually, I think the large-scale sample size is part of the problem.\nIt seems to me that if we were to plot all the players in baseball\nin regard to BA vs. Clutch BA deviation we would get some kind of\nbell curve. (The X-axis being the +/- deviation in clutch hitting\nvs. non-clutch; the Y-axis being the number of players.) Certainly\nthere would be *some* players on the extreme ends of the bell. My\n*supposition* is that if we were to find the SAME players consistently\n(year after year) at one end of the bell or the other, then we might\nbe able to make some reasonable conclusions about *those* players\n(as opposed to all baseball players).\n\n As a counterexample to \n\nYou won't hear those kind of accusations from me. It is interesting\nthat you selected Maldonado, because he is someone whom I have also \nlooked at. He has been a very inconsistent hitter (in terms of BA),\nhitting in 1989 - 92 .217, .273, .250, .272 Admittedly, he has\nbeen traded between leagues as well as clubs. His clutch hitting \nrecord is equally inconsistent. So, for my purposes in 1993 I would\nnot draw any conclusions about his ability to hit in the clutch based\non his prior performance. I don't know how I would have felt in 1988,\nbut you may indeed be right. \n\nWhen I looked at Sabo I found a more consistent record of hitting, and\na more consistent pattern of his clutch hitting being proportionately\nbelow his non-clutch BA. Ditto for Joe Carter.\n\nThis probably brings us to the heart of the disagreement I am having\nwith others on this topic. Must any conclusion based on statistical\nhistory be able to be applied broadly throughout a data base before\nit has any validity? Is it impossible (or irrational) to apply\nstatistical analysis to selected components of the data base?\n\n\n\nI completely accept that reasoning. Again, what if we were to find\nthe same individuals at each end of the spectrum on a consistent\nbasis? \n\namen.\n\n\n\n--\tThe Beastmaster\n\n", "\nThis is a phenomenon known around work as ready-fire-aim. I am astounded at\nthe number of times people post strong opinions about things they not only\ndon't understand but publicly admit to not understanding. In fact, there's a\nplausible argument that saves are a more rational stat than wins.\n\nFor the record, there are two ways that a reliever can get a save:\nHe must finish the game and either\n1. have entered the game with the tying run on base, at bat, or on deck.\n2. have pitched at least three innings effectively.\nA pitcher may not get a win and a save in the same game.\n\n\nBut this is an argument that *wins* is a dumb stat, not saves.\n\n\nThis again doesn't support your claim about saves at the beginning of your\npost. \n\n Mike Jones | AIX High-End Development | mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com", "Hi there,\n\n I was wondering if anyone knew if John Wetteland was put on the DL again\n after his first 15-day period was up? I read in the USA Today Sports \n section that he is on for \"surgery to repair broken toe\", and was\n wondering if that was new. I thought he was just letting it heal. \n\n Another question, Is Derek Lilliquist the main closer for the Indians now\n that Olin is gone. I need to know cause I need to find a reliever to \n replace Wetteland and so far Lilliquist is doing ok. Any information on\n either of the players would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your\n time. \n\n\n Ryan Robin.\n\n___________________________________________________________ ", "\n\nI don't think that it is \"obvious\" that \"lots\" of people are willing\nto pay the price. I'm sure someone out there in net-land has some\nfacts about trends in attendance regarding percentage of capacity\nsold. But even if the trends are relatively flat, you have to consider\nwhat is happening on a team-by-team basis.\n\nWhen the TV money dries up, franchises will be seeking to supplant the\nlost revenues from alternative sources. One of the best sources may\nbe ticket sales.\n\nExample 1:\tThe Dodgers\n\n\tThe Dodgers can count on a strong base of season ticket sales\n\tand *probably* believe that they have the ability to raise\n\tprices without hindering revenues. I certainly think that is\n\ttrue.\n\nExample 2:\tThe Padres\n\n\tThey will be lucky to average 10,000 fans a game this year.\n\tIf they raise prices, less. If they want to increase their\n\toverall revenue base, the best thing they can do is put a\n\twinning team on the field. But given that won't happen (it\n\twon't), they can probably make more money by lowering ticket\n\tprices and running frequent promotions. Will they do that?\n\tI have no idea. But they won't increase prices, because it\n\twon't work *for them*.\n\n\n\n\nThe only strange powers at work here are the forces of the market place.\nEach team's market is somewhat different, and each owner is going to\nbe faced with a unique set of circumstances about how to deal with those\nmarket forces. As a buiness manager, I would never *want* to lower my\nprices, but sometimes that strategy is necessary, and sometimes it works.\nYou have to consider everything if you want continued success.\n\n\n\n\n--\tThe Beastmaster\n", "\nIf I'm not mistaken, San Jose had more wins than Ottawa. First tiebreaker in\nthe NHL is always most wins.", "\nThis was (my opinion) the stupidest thing in the Hidden Game. The\nargument was\n\n1) Defense, or runs allowed, is 50% of the game.\n2) Unearned runs amount to 12% of the runs allowed; earned runs, 88%.\n\n3) Since unearned runs are the result of fielding, not pitching, and\nearned runs are the product of pitching, not fielding, fielding is 12%\nof defense and pitching is 88% of defense.\n4) Caombining with #1, pitching is 44% of the game, fielding 6%.\n\nPete is usually sharper than that. My own feel is that fielding is in\nthe 25-33% of defense range; call it 30-70 between fielding and\npitching.\n\n\nI'd give baserunning a little more credit than that, maybe 45-5, or\neven 40-10. Give a team of Roberto Alomar and a team of John Oleruds\nidentical batting stats (which wouldn't be that unreasonable), and\neven if you don't let Roberto steal a single base, they'll score a lot\nmore than the Oleruds by going first-to-third more often. (No offense,\nGordon).", "sandiego and graig nettles\n\n\n", "\n\nSorry to disappoint you but the Red Wings earned the victory...easily.\n\nI watched most of the game on ESPN (as soon as I realized that they\nwere televising the game which was at the beginning of the second).\nThe Maple Leafs were flat. Very flat. Meanwhile, the Red Wings were\nskating very freely and dictating the pace of the game. I didn't\ndetect any bad penalty calls (Van Hellemond did his usual good job).\nToronto looked like how I expected them to for their first playoff\ngame in a few years -- nervous.\n\nFor the Leafs sake, I hope they can rid themselves of the butterflies\nfor game 2. If game 1 is indicative of the series, it's gonna go\nquick.", "\n\nThe Pens are now being broadcast on 102.5 WDVE. ", "\n\nDid they move Probert back to defense? Why did I see him parking his ass\nin front of Potvin all night? Somebody is going to have to discipline\nProbert if the Leafs want to win the series. Perhaps a fresh Clark should\nhit the ice at the end of a long Probert shift and straigten him out for\na while...\n\n\n-- ", "\nWilliams does not like hitting cleanup!!\nSecondly, Bonds and Clark (in that order) are a lot more productive with\nrunners in scoring position than Matt \"I am streaky, free swinger\" Williams.", "To all those out there wondering about who holds the record for three\nhomer games ina career, the answer is Johnny Mize in his career with the \nCards and the Yanks. He hit three 6 times. I am almost sure about this. In\ncase anyone is wondering, the record for two homer games is held by Babe\nRuth and is 72. Mize's record may not last for much longer because of Juan\nGonzalez. He has at least three games with three and maybe 4. I know that \nhe had at least two last year and one as a rookie. I don't have any record\nbooks at college for me to check on though. Please let me know, okay, if I \nam wrong. \n\tOnto the Padres. Is there anyone out there who follows them?- especial-ly those with access to local news? I don't here anything in Los Angeles and I\ncan't get McPaper consistently around here. \ncomment: It looks as though San Diego has gotten the better of the two deals\nthat brought Bell and Plantier to the Padres. It has also forced the team to use Darrell Shermann. Of course, Plantier could get injured again or he could \nhit with the power of 91 but with a lower average. Bell always could finish\nwith .240 and 15-18 hrs-essentially Jerald Clark's numbers. \nleadoff comment: Craig Shipley?????? I get on base 29% of the time if I'm \nlucky at leadoff? Hell, of the usual starters, use Gwynn. He's got 4 steals\nalready. Is Shipley starting because of an injury to Stillwell, though? I\nhaven't seen Stillwell's name in any box scores. Anyway unless you are going\nto use Shermann at leadoff then use Gwynn. He at lesat gets on base and this\nyear is stealing bases.\nSheffield comment: Though the season is early and stats mean nothing.\nWitness Phillips batting .500+ currently. But does Sheffield have an injury,\nor anythingelse wrong with him. I just don't hear anything.\nAndy Benes: Is he pitching like he did in the second half of '91? or is \nthis a flash of promise that he throws out evrey now and then? Has anyone \nseen him pitch the two good games?\nscore for today, Sunday april 18: Padres 10, St Louis 6. Padres sweep the\nCardinals as Gwynn goes 5 for 5 with a homer. Sheffield and Tueful also homer\nin a winning cause. \n\t\t\t\tThanks for listening-reading\n\t\t\t\tany comments????", "Good point - there haven't even been any recent posts about Ulf! \nSecretly, I'm convinced that he's responsible for the Bs being down 3-0\nto Buffalo, somehow.\n", "As a Philly fan as as a Penna. baseball fan, I'm anxious to see the\nPenna. series. Anyone know when it starts and where the first games\nwill be played?\n\nThis is (I think) always good baseball (to me); and the Pirates are\nalso off to a good start.", "\nI was *hoping* somebody would mention clutch. Clutch? Baerga? The\ntwo words simply do not go together. With runners in scoring\nposition, Baerga batted .308/.366/.418 last year. This doesn't quite\n*suck*, but most batters hit *better* in this situation.\n\nAlomar? He hit .354/.439/.517 with runners in scoring position!\n\nThe difference? Alomar had 68 RBIs in 147 such AB. Baerga had 81\nRBIs in 182 such AB. Baerga got 25% more chances, yet succeeded only\n20% more times.\n\nFrankly, I don't believe in clutch. But if I did, my vote would\ngo to Alomar for MVP (let alone \"best 2B in the AL\").", "\nNot an astute observation -- this is a straw-bullpen. The lefties,\nStanton & Mercker are strong, and Wohlers is down learning a new pitch.\nThe bullpen is fine, probably superior.\n\n\nAlso false. Gant, Nixon, Justice, Hunter, Blauser present a decent enough\noffense. EVERYONE is slumping (except Blauser), not just Pendleton.\n\nBTW, what is the story with Brian Hunter? Is he in the dog house?", "Individual leaders by total points (Final standings)\n NOTE: Games played and points per games not accurate !!\n\n Player Team GP G A Pts ppg Prj PIM +/-\n\n M.Lemieux PIT 59 69 91 160 2.71 160 38 53\n LaFontaine BUF 82 53 95 148 1.80 148 63 13\n Oates BOS 83 45 97 142 1.71 142 32 12\n Yzerman DET 83 58 79 137 1.65 137 44 33\n Turgeon NYI 80 58 74 132 1.65 132 26 -2\n Selanne WIN 82 76 56 132 1.61 132 45 6\n Mogilny BUF 75 76 51 127 1.69 127 40 9\n Gilmour TOR 81 32 95 127 1.57 127 96 32\n Robitaille LA 82 63 62 125 1.52 127 100 16\n Recchi PHI 81 53 70 123 1.52 123 95 -2\n Sundin QUE 79 47 67 114 1.44 114 96 19\n Stevens PIT 71 55 57 112 1.58 112 169 16\n Bure VAN 82 60 50 110 1.34 110 67 37\n Tocchet PIT 79 48 61 109 1.38 109 240 28\n Roenick CHI 82 50 57 107 1.30 107 82 15\n Janney STL 82 24 82 106 1.29 106 12 1\n Sakic QUE 77 48 57 105 1.36 105 40 -4\n Juneau BOS 83 32 70 102 1.23 102 33 21\n Hull STL 78 54 47 101 1.29 101 41 -21\n Andreychuk TOR 81 55 45 100 1.23 100 56 4\n Fleury CAL 82 34 66 100 1.22 100 88 15\n Francis PIT 83 24 76 100 1.20 100 68 6\n Housley WIN 78 18 79 97 1.24 97 52 -13\n Ciccarelli DET 81 41 56 97 1.20 97 81 12\n Damphousse MON 82 39 58 97 1.18 97 96 5\n Hawerchuk BUF 79 16 80 96 1.22 96 48 -14\n Shanahan STL 69 51 43 94 1.36 94 168 9\n Muller MON 79 37 57 94 1.19 94 75 9\n Jagr PIT 80 34 60 94 1.18 94 69 31\n Modano MIN 80 33 60 93 1.16 93 81 -6\n Messier NYR 72 25 66 91 1.26 91 70 -3\n Sanderson HAR 79 46 43 89 1.13 89 28 -24\n Reichel CAL 78 40 48 88 1.13 88 54 23\n Bellows MON 80 40 48 88 1.10 88 42 4\n Fedorov DET 72 34 53 87 1.21 87 72 33\n Thomas NYI 76 37 50 87 1.14 87 109 0\n Coffey DET 79 12 75 87 1.10 87 77 16\n Kurri LA 81 27 60 87 1.07 88 38 20\n Bradley TB 78 42 44 86 1.10 86 90 -22\n Brind'Amour PHI 78 37 49 86 1.10 86 87 -9\n Ronning VAN 77 29 56 85 1.10 85 30 16\n Bondra WAS 80 37 48 85 1.06 85 70 3\n Cassels HAR 81 21 64 85 1.05 85 57 -15\n Murphy PIT 82 22 62 84 1.02 84 73 42\n Bourque BOS 78 19 63 82 1.05 82 40 38\n Granato LA 79 37 45 82 1.04 83 165 3\n Verbeek HAR 81 39 43 82 1.01 82 180 -11\n Ridley WAS 81 26 56 82 1.01 82 38 4\n Duchesne QUE 81 20 62 82 1.01 82 57 15\n C.Lemieux NJ 75 30 51 81 1.08 81 149 0\n Suter CAL 80 23 58 81 1.01 81 112 -1\n Lebeau MON 69 31 49 80 1.16 80 20 23\n Roberts CAL 57 38 41 79 1.39 79 172 31\n Semak NJ 80 37 42 79 0.99 79 70 22\n Hatcher WAS 80 34 45 79 0.99 79 110 -12\n D.Hunter WAS 81 20 59 79 0.98 79 194 2\n Courtnall MIN 82 36 43 79 0.96 79 49 -2\n Brown STL 69 25 53 78 1.13 78 56 -4\n Ricci QUE 76 27 51 78 1.03 78 121 9\n Kisio SJ 77 26 52 78 1.01 78 90 -15\n Craven VAN 76 25 52 77 1.01 77 30 0\n G.Courtnall VAN 82 31 46 77 0.94 77 167 23\n Nolan QUE 72 36 40 76 1.06 76 185 -6\n King NYI 74 38 38 76 1.03 76 45 -1\n Amonte NYR 80 33 43 76 0.95 76 47 0\n Gagner MIN 82 33 43 76 0.93 76 141 -15\n Lindros PHI 58 41 34 75 1.29 75 143 25\n Hogue NYI 67 33 42 75 1.12 75 106 6\n Nieuwendyk CAL 77 38 37 75 0.97 75 52 8\n Pivonka WAS 66 21 53 74 1.12 74 51 12\n Borschevsky TOR 76 34 40 74 0.97 74 26 32\n Dahlen MIN 81 35 39 74 0.91 74 6 -18\n Richer NJ 76 38 35 73 0.96 73 44 0\n Emerson STL 80 22 51 73 0.91 73 60 -1\n Nedved VAN 82 38 35 73 0.89 73 94 18\n Chelios CHI 82 15 58 73 0.89 73 282 13\n Carson LA 84 37 36 73 0.87 74 30 2\n Zhamnov WIN 66 25 47 72 1.09 72 58 5\n Kvartalnov BOS 72 30 42 72 1.00 72 14 9\n Steen WIN 78 22 50 72 0.92 72 75 -8\n Linden VAN 82 33 39 72 0.88 72 60 15\n Mullen PIT 71 33 37 70 0.99 70 12 21\n Larmer CHI 82 35 35 70 0.85 70 48 22\n Donnelly LA 82 29 40 69 0.84 70 45 18\n Kovalenko QUE 80 27 41 68 0.85 68 57 10\n Gartner NYR 81 45 23 68 0.84 68 55 -2\n Khristich WAS 61 31 36 67 1.10 67 26 26\n Sheppard DET 70 32 34 66 0.94 66 29 7\n Garpenlov SJ 78 22 44 66 0.85 66 56 -25\n Iafrate WAS 81 25 41 66 0.81 66 169 15\n Gretzky LA 43 16 49 65 1.51 67 6 6\n Zalapski HAR 80 14 51 65 0.81 65 86 -32\n Graves NYR 81 36 29 65 0.80 65 148 -4\n Anderson TOR 74 21 43 64 0.86 64 117 19\n Zelepukin NJ 76 23 41 64 0.84 64 66 16\n MacIver OTT 78 17 46 63 0.81 63 80 -42\n Dineen PHI 80 35 28 63 0.79 63 199 11\n Chiasson DET 78 12 50 62 0.79 62 151 15\n Ysebaert DET 79 34 28 62 0.78 62 42 19\n Galley PHI 80 13 49 62 0.78 62 98 14\n McEachern PIT 83 28 33 61 0.73 61 46 21\n Nicholls NJ 67 13 47 60 0.90 60 80 -13\n Keane MON 75 15 45 60 0.80 60 93 28\n Flatley NYI 77 13 47 60 0.78 60 61 3\n S.Young QUE 81 30 30 60 0.74 60 20 4\n Shannon WIN 82 20 40 60 0.73 60 91 -4\n Fedyk PHI 74 21 38 59 0.80 59 48 14\n Blake LA 76 16 43 59 0.78 60 152 18\n Olausson WIN 66 16 41 57 0.86 57 22 -5\n Makarov CAL 70 18 39 57 0.81 57 40 0\n Smith CHI 76 10 47 57 0.75 57 212 13\n Elynuik WAS 77 22 35 57 0.74 57 66 2\n Stevens NJ 79 12 45 57 0.72 57 116 16\n Adams VAN 51 25 31 56 1.10 56 14 33\n Tucker TB 76 17 39 56 0.74 56 69 -10\n MacInnis CAL 48 11 43 54 1.13 54 59 15\n Sutter CHI 63 20 34 54 0.86 54 65 9\n Bodger BUF 80 9 45 54 0.68 54 87 14\n Nemchinov NYR 81 23 31 54 0.67 54 34 15\n Driver NJ 81 14 40 54 0.67 54 64 -9\n Ruuttu CHI 82 17 37 54 0.66 54 134 14\n Yake HAR 63 22 31 53 0.84 53 44 5\n Turcotte NYR 68 25 28 53 0.78 53 40 -2\n Sandstrom LA 37 25 27 52 1.41 53 51 11\n Malakhov NYI 61 14 38 52 0.85 52 59 14\n Ward VAN 68 22 30 52 0.76 52 82 32\n Otto CAL 74 19 33 52 0.70 52 150 2\n Kontos TB 66 27 24 51 0.77 51 12 -7\n Leach BOS 78 26 25 51 0.65 51 126 -6\n Poulin HAR 78 20 31 51 0.65 51 37 -19\n Tkachuk WIN 81 28 23 51 0.63 51 199 -14\n Savard MON 62 16 34 50 0.81 50 90 2\n Norton NYI 63 12 38 50 0.79 50 45 -6\n Cullen TOR 64 18 32 50 0.78 50 109 -23\n Cote WAS 74 21 29 50 0.68 50 34 28\n Eklund PHI 52 11 38 49 0.94 49 16 8\n Olczyk NYR 68 21 28 49 0.72 49 52 -1\n Semenov VAN 74 12 37 49 0.66 49 32 16\n Davydov WIN 77 28 21 49 0.64 49 64 -2\n Miller STL 80 24 25 49 0.61 49 96 0\n Poulin BOS 83 16 33 49 0.59 49 62 30\n Klima EDM 66 32 16 48 0.73 48 98 -15\n Dionne MON 73 20 28 48 0.66 48 55 6\n Baker OTT 74 19 29 48 0.65 48 52 -21\n Rucinsky QUE 76 18 30 48 0.63 48 51 14\n Weight EDM 76 17 31 48 0.63 48 65 5\n Zhitnik LA 76 12 36 48 0.63 49 78 -2\n MacLean NJ 78 24 24 48 0.62 48 100 -7\n Corson EDM 78 16 31 47 0.60 47 207 -16\n Sweeney BUF 79 21 26 47 0.59 47 118 4\n Simpson EDM 60 24 22 46 0.77 46 36 -14\n Hawgood PHI 66 11 35 46 0.70 46 68 -9\n Johansson WAS 74 7 38 45 0.61 45 54 0\n Miller WAS 81 18 27 45 0.56 45 32 -1\n Manson EDM 81 15 30 45 0.56 45 210 -26\n Desjardins MON 81 13 32 45 0.56 45 98 19\n Schneider MON 58 13 31 44 0.76 44 89 9\n Goulet CHI 63 23 21 44 0.70 44 41 10\n Leclair MON 70 19 25 44 0.63 44 33 11\n Drake DET 71 18 26 44 0.62 44 91 14\n Lumme VAN 73 8 36 44 0.60 44 55 29\n Gaudreau SJ 58 23 20 43 0.74 43 18 -17\n Gill TOR 68 11 32 43 0.63 43 64 4\n Turgeon OTT 70 25 18 43 0.61 43 104 -26\n Probert DET 79 14 29 43 0.54 43 292 -9\n Wood BUF 80 18 25 43 0.54 43 77 7\n Ranheim CAL 82 21 22 43 0.52 43 26 -4\n Zamuner TB 82 15 28 43 0.52 43 72 -25\n Tinordi MIN 69 15 27 42 0.61 42 157 -1\n Paslawski CAL 71 18 24 42 0.59 42 12 0\n Ruzicka BOS 60 19 22 41 0.68 41 38 -6\n Elik EDM 60 14 27 41 0.68 41 56 -4\n Kudelski OTT 61 24 17 41 0.67 41 28 -25\n McSorley LA 79 15 26 41 0.52 42 393 0\n Shaw OTT 79 7 34 41 0.52 41 34 -47\n Lidstrom DET 83 7 34 41 0.49 41 28 7\n Stastny NJ 60 17 23 40 0.67 40 20 -3\n Ellett TOR 68 6 34 40 0.59 40 46 17\n Tikkanen NYR 78 16 24 40 0.51 40 94 -22\n Niedermayer NJ 78 11 29 40 0.51 40 47 8\n Racine DET 79 9 31 40 0.51 40 80 8\n McPhee MIN 82 18 22 40 0.49 40 44 -4\n Millen LA 40 23 16 39 0.98 40 42 15\n Chambers TB 53 10 29 39 0.74 39 34 -23\n Holik NJ 59 20 19 39 0.66 39 72 -2\n Clark TOR 65 17 22 39 0.60 39 187 3\n Khmylev BUF 66 20 19 39 0.59 39 26 6\n Creighton TB 81 19 20 39 0.48 39 110 -21\n Krushelnyski TOR 82 19 20 39 0.48 39 60 3\n Kurvers NYI 49 8 30 38 0.78 38 38 8\n Crossman STL 57 10 28 38 0.67 38 28 -6\n Kovalev NYR 63 20 18 38 0.60 38 79 -8\n Craig MIN 68 15 23 38 0.56 38 106 -10\n Krupp NYI 79 9 29 38 0.48 38 67 8\n Momesso VAN 82 18 20 38 0.46 38 193 11\n Kamensky QUE 31 15 22 37 1.19 37 14 13\n Numminen WIN 65 7 30 37 0.57 37 33 4\n Pearson TOR 76 23 14 37 0.49 37 196 -2\n Graham CHI 82 20 17 37 0.45 37 141 1\n Leetch NYR 36 6 30 36 1.00 36 26 2\n Ciger EDM 62 13 23 36 0.58 36 8 -14\n Beers TB 62 12 24 36 0.58 36 70 -24\n Reid BOS 65 20 16 36 0.55 36 10 12\n Lapointe QUE 73 10 26 36 0.49 36 98 4\n Sjodin MIN 75 7 29 36 0.48 36 30 -25\n Weinrich HAR 76 7 29 36 0.47 36 76 -10\n Borsato WIN 65 15 20 35 0.54 35 38 -1\n Zezel TOR 68 12 23 35 0.51 35 24 -1\n Burr DET 79 10 25 35 0.44 35 74 18\n Donato BOS 81 15 20 35 0.43 35 61 2\n Benning EDM 55 10 24 34 0.62 34 152 -1\n Howe DET 59 3 31 34 0.58 34 22 20\n Guerin NJ 63 14 20 34 0.54 34 63 16\n Hull OTT 67 13 21 34 0.51 34 14 -21\n D.Sweeney BOS 83 7 27 34 0.41 34 66 34\n Nylander HAR 56 11 22 33 0.59 33 36 -5\n Beranek PHI 63 15 18 33 0.52 33 78 -6\n Wesley BOS 64 8 25 33 0.52 33 47 -2\n Matteau CHI 77 15 18 33 0.43 33 96 6\n Broten MIN 80 12 21 33 0.41 33 22 7\n Leeman MON 50 15 17 32 0.64 32 24 14\n Dalgarno NYI 55 15 17 32 0.58 32 60 16\n Mellanby EDM 67 15 17 32 0.48 32 147 -4\n Primeau DET 73 15 17 32 0.44 32 152 -6\n Gilbert CHI 75 13 19 32 0.43 32 57 5\n Mullen NYI 78 18 14 32 0.41 32 28 7\n Presley BUF 78 15 17 32 0.41 32 92 5\n Leschyshyn QUE 81 9 23 32 0.40 32 55 22\n Zubov NYR 46 8 23 31 0.67 31 4 1\n Mironov TOR 57 7 24 31 0.54 31 38 -2\n Bureau TB 63 10 21 31 0.49 31 111 -12\n Brisebois MON 68 10 21 31 0.46 31 77 8\n Heinze BOS 72 18 13 31 0.43 31 24 21\n Smehlik BUF 78 4 27 31 0.40 31 59 10\n Lemieux CHI 79 10 21 31 0.39 31 109 4\n Yushkevich PHI 79 5 26 31 0.39 31 71 10\n Evason SJ 83 12 19 31 0.37 31 132 -33\n McInnis NYI 56 10 20 30 0.54 30 24 7\n Noonan CHI 61 16 14 30 0.49 30 82 1\n Gallant DET 66 10 20 30 0.45 30 186 20\n Kennedy DET 67 19 11 30 0.45 30 46 -1\n Hough QUE 77 8 22 30 0.39 30 69 -11\n Gusarov QUE 78 8 22 30 0.38 30 57 16\n MacTavish EDM 80 10 20 30 0.38 30 110 -15\n Buchberger EDM 81 12 18 30 0.37 30 133 -24\n Janssens HAR 73 12 17 29 0.40 29 233 -12\n U.Samuelson PIT 76 3 26 29 0.38 29 247 37\n Sydor LA 78 6 23 29 0.37 29 59 0\n Duchesne MIN 82 16 13 29 0.35 29 30 6\n Falloon SJ 41 14 14 28 0.68 28 12 -25\n Sandlak VAN 59 10 18 28 0.47 28 122 2\n Carpenter WAS 65 11 17 28 0.43 28 63 -16\n Kron HAR 42 14 13 27 0.64 27 18 7\n Ferraro NYI 43 14 13 27 0.63 27 38 -5\n Kravchuk EDM 55 10 17 27 0.49 27 32 3\n Plavsic VAN 56 6 21 27 0.48 27 51 27\n Ron Sutter STL 59 12 15 27 0.46 27 99 -11\n Cole TB 65 12 15 27 0.42 27 21 -4\n Odgers SJ 65 12 15 27 0.42 27 251 -25\n Fitzgerald NYI 74 9 18 27 0.36 27 32 -1\n Fetisov NJ 74 4 23 27 0.36 27 158 7\n Korolev STL 74 4 23 27 0.36 27 20 -1\n Kypreos HAR 75 17 10 27 0.36 27 325 -5\n Andersson TB 75 16 11 27 0.36 27 14 -14\n Huddy LA 80 2 25 27 0.34 27 62 20\n Rich Sutter STL 82 13 14 27 0.33 27 100 -6\n Slegr VAN 40 4 22 26 0.65 26 109 16\n Svoboda BUF 40 2 24 26 0.65 26 59 3\n Patrick NYR 60 5 21 26 0.43 26 61 1\n Jones WAS 68 12 14 26 0.38 26 124 16\n Lamb OTT 69 7 19 26 0.38 26 62 -40\n Osborne TOR 75 12 14 26 0.35 26 87 -7\n May BUF 80 13 13 26 0.33 26 238 3\n Eagles WIN 82 8 18 26 0.32 26 131 -1\n Brunet MON 45 10 15 25 0.56 25 19 13\n T.Green NYI 58 7 18 25 0.43 25 43 6\n Stern CAL 69 10 15 25 0.36 25 207 2\n Lidster VAN 71 6 19 25 0.35 25 36 9\n Haller MON 72 11 14 25 0.35 25 117 8\n Tippett PIT 73 6 19 25 0.34 25 56 7\n Peluso OTT 79 15 10 25 0.32 25 318 -32\n DiMaio TB 54 9 15 24 0.44 24 62 0\n Brady OTT 55 7 17 24 0.44 24 57 -25\n Freer OTT 61 10 14 24 0.39 24 39 -32\n Cavallini QUE 66 9 15 24 0.36 24 34 10\n Lachance NYI 74 7 17 24 0.32 24 67 -2\n Shaw BOS 76 10 14 24 0.32 24 108 9\n Berg TOR 78 13 11 24 0.31 24 103 2\n Ozolinsh SJ 37 7 16 23 0.62 23 40 -9\n Klatt MIN 45 4 19 23 0.51 23 38 6\n Loach LA 53 10 13 23 0.43 23 27 3\n Todd EDM 55 9 14 23 0.42 23 26 -9\n Ashton CAL 56 10 13 23 0.41 23 52 8\n McBain OTT 57 7 16 23 0.40 23 43 -35\n Gelinas EDM 63 11 12 23 0.37 23 30 2\n Bautin WIN 69 5 18 23 0.33 23 92 -2\n Krygier WAS 74 11 12 23 0.31 23 60 -14\n Johnson MIN 79 3 20 23 0.29 23 105 9\n Acton PHI 80 8 15 23 0.29 23 51 -11\n Barnes WIN 37 12 10 22 0.59 22 10 -3\n Huffman QUE 52 4 18 22 0.42 22 54 0\n Sutton BUF 61 8 14 22 0.36 22 30 0\n McKay NJ 71 11 11 22 0.31 22 199 1\n Konstantinov DET 81 5 17 22 0.27 22 135 23\n Pellerin NJ 44 10 11 21 0.48 21 37 -1\n Sillinger DET 51 4 17 21 0.41 21 16 0\n Volek NYI 56 8 13 21 0.38 21 34 -1\n Lindberg CAL 61 9 12 21 0.34 21 18 -4\n Evans PHI 65 8 13 21 0.32 21 70 -9\n Hamrlik TB 65 6 15 21 0.32 21 65 -20\n Gilchrist MIN 68 10 11 21 0.31 21 49 -12\n Churla MIN 73 5 16 21 0.29 21 286 -8\n Kasparaitis NYI 77 4 17 21 0.27 21 166 14\n Loney PIT 81 5 16 21 0.26 21 99 3\n Courtenay SJ 38 7 13 20 0.53 20 10 -15\n Wilson SJ 42 3 17 20 0.48 20 40 -28\n T.Pederson SJ 43 7 13 20 0.47 20 31 -14\n Lomakin PHI 48 8 12 20 0.42 20 34 14\n Druce WIN 48 6 14 20 0.42 20 37 -5\n Hannan BUF 53 5 15 20 0.38 20 41 10\n Corriveau HAR 54 8 12 20 0.37 20 12 -20\n Bourque NYR 54 6 14 20 0.37 20 39 -9\n Hiller DET 60 8 12 20 0.33 20 109 6\n Maltais TB 61 7 13 20 0.33 20 35 -19\n Burt HAR 62 6 14 20 0.32 20 116 -14\n Johansson CAL 75 4 16 20 0.27 20 60 11\n Marchment CHI 76 5 15 20 0.26 20 309 13\n Diduck VAN 78 6 14 20 0.26 20 163 29\n Podein EDM 38 13 6 19 0.50 19 25 -1\n Berehowsky TOR 40 4 15 19 0.48 19 61 1\n Babych VAN 41 3 16 19 0.46 19 42 4\n Audette BUF 42 12 7 19 0.45 19 51 -5\n Chorske NJ 50 7 12 19 0.38 19 25 -1\n Bassen STL 51 9 10 19 0.37 19 59 -4\n Hatcher MIN 65 4 15 19 0.29 19 176 -26\n Kucera CHI 70 5 14 19 0.27 19 59 7\n Wilson STL 76 8 11 19 0.25 19 44 -7\n Macoun TOR 76 4 15 19 0.25 19 55 3\n King WIN 77 8 11 19 0.25 19 203 4\n Beukeboom NYR 79 2 17 19 0.24 19 153 10\n Carkner PHI 80 3 16 19 0.24 19 146 16\n Neely BOS 12 11 7 18 1.50 18 25 4\n Foligno TOR 54 13 5 18 0.33 18 84 1\n Christian CHI 60 4 14 18 0.30 18 12 6\n Errey BUF 61 9 9 18 0.30 18 80 1\n Gavin MIN 63 10 8 18 0.29 18 59 -4\n McLlwain TOR 65 14 4 18 0.28 18 30 -17\n Daigneault MON 65 8 10 18 0.28 18 57 24\n Ramage MON 74 5 13 18 0.24 18 146 -24\n Smith EDM 76 4 14 18 0.24 18 30 -11\n Paek PIT 76 3 15 18 0.24 18 64 15\n Murphy CHI 17 7 10 17 1.00 17 18 -4\n DiPietro MON 27 4 13 17 0.63 17 14 10\n M.Pederson SJ 40 10 7 17 0.43 17 24 -20\n Nattress PHI 44 7 10 17 0.39 17 29 1\n Carbonneau MON 59 4 13 17 0.29 17 20 -8\n Yawney CAL 61 1 16 17 0.28 17 65 5\n Kasatonov NJ 63 3 14 17 0.27 17 55 7\n Roberts BOS 64 5 12 17 0.27 17 103 22\n MacDermid WAS 72 9 8 17 0.24 17 80 -13\n Odjick VAN 74 4 13 17 0.23 17 360 4\n Conacher LA 79 9 8 17 0.22 17 20 -15\n Cavallini WAS 79 6 11 17 0.22 17 56 4\n Erickson WIN 39 4 12 16 0.41 16 12 2\n Straka PIT 41 3 13 16 0.39 16 29 3\n Erixon NYR 42 5 11 16 0.38 16 10 13\n Murphy BOS 48 5 11 16 0.33 16 60 -14\n Ledyard BUF 48 2 14 16 0.33 16 43 0\n Butsayev PHI 49 2 14 16 0.33 16 57 2\n Ulanov WIN 54 2 14 16 0.30 16 122 6\n Carter SJ 55 7 9 16 0.29 16 81 -25\n Glynn EDM 62 4 12 16 0.26 16 58 -12\n Boschman OTT 68 9 7 16 0.24 16 95 -27\n Rumble OTT 68 3 13 16 0.24 16 61 -26\n Stanton PIT 76 4 12 16 0.21 16 97 8\n Murzyn VAN 77 5 11 16 0.21 16 179 36\n Musil CAL 78 6 10 16 0.21 16 129 26\n May WAS 80 6 10 16 0.20 16 266 0\n Foote QUE 80 4 12 16 0.20 16 168 3\n Odelein MON 81 2 14 16 0.20 16 201 35\n Andersson NYR 29 4 11 15 0.52 15 16 7\n Archibald OTT 42 9 6 15 0.36 15 32 -15\n Taylor LA 46 6 9 15 0.33 15 49 2\n Lowe NYR 47 3 12 15 0.32 15 58 -1\n Domi WIN 59 5 10 15 0.25 15 340 1\n McCrimmon DET 60 1 14 15 0.25 15 71 21\n Konroyd DET 65 3 12 15 0.23 15 67 -15\n Zombo STL 69 0 15 15 0.22 15 78 -4\n Butcher STL 82 5 10 15 0.18 15 209 0\n Zmolek SJ 83 5 10 15 0.18 15 229 -51\n Fergus VAN 36 5 9 14 0.39 14 20 1\n Skrudland CAL 38 7 7 14 0.37 14 65 4\n Pantaleyev BOS 39 8 6 14 0.36 14 12 -6\n Pearson QUE 41 13 1 14 0.34 14 95 3\n C.J.Young BOS 43 7 7 14 0.33 14 32 -6\n Smail OTT 51 4 10 14 0.27 14 51 -34\n Hardy LA 53 1 13 14 0.26 14 89 -1\n Broten NYR 58 5 9 14 0.24 14 48 -6\n Barr NJ 60 6 8 14 0.23 14 44 3\n Taglianetti PIT 71 2 12 14 0.20 14 182 15\n Ewen MON 74 5 9 14 0.19 14 191 7\n Bergevin TB 76 2 12 14 0.18 14 66 -16\n Finn QUE 79 5 9 14 0.18 14 160 -4\n Lefebvre TOR 79 2 12 14 0.18 14 90 6\n M.Sullivan SJ 81 6 8 14 0.17 14 30 -42\n Ojanen NJ 31 4 9 13 0.42 13 14 -2\n Reekie TB 42 2 11 13 0.31 13 69 2\n Lindsay QUE 44 4 9 13 0.30 13 16 0\n Ramsey PIT 44 3 10 13 0.30 13 28 16\n Valk VAN 46 6 7 13 0.28 13 73 5\n Jelinek OTT 49 7 6 13 0.27 13 52 -21\n Needham PIT 55 8 5 13 0.24 13 24 -2\n Lowry STL 56 5 8 13 0.23 13 101 -18\n Rychel LA 68 6 7 13 0.19 13 293 -14\n McGill PHI 70 3 10 13 0.19 13 221 7\n Stapleton PIT 78 4 9 13 0.17 13 10 -8\n Richardson EDM 80 3 10 13 0.16 13 140 -18\n Rouse TOR 80 3 10 13 0.16 13 128 8\n Daneyko NJ 82 2 11 13 0.16 13 222 4\n Ogrodnick DET 18 6 6 12 0.67 12 2 -3\n S. King NYR 24 7 5 12 0.50 12 16 4\n Joseph EDM 31 2 10 12 0.39 12 46 -6\n Petit CAL 34 3 9 12 0.35 12 50 -6\n Williams SJ 39 1 11 12 0.31 12 49 -25\n B.Smith MIN 43 5 7 12 0.28 12 8 -6\n Bozon STL 52 6 6 12 0.23 12 55 -1\n Ronan MON 53 5 7 12 0.23 12 20 6\n Dirk VAN 67 4 8 12 0.18 12 146 22\n Hunter VAN 72 5 7 12 0.17 12 182 -5\n Luongo OTT 74 3 9 12 0.16 12 68 -42\n Berube CAL 75 4 8 12 0.16 12 209 -6\n Wilson CAL 22 4 7 11 0.50 11 8 10\n Vujtek EDM 28 1 10 11 0.39 11 8 -1\n Konowalchuk WAS 36 4 7 11 0.31 11 16 4\n Snuggerud PHI 39 4 7 11 0.28 11 14 -3\n Murray CHI 49 4 7 11 0.22 11 57 -14\n Donnelly BUF 58 3 8 11 0.19 11 219 6\n Dahl CAL 59 2 9 11 0.19 11 52 9\n Kasper TB 66 4 7 11 0.17 11 20 -16\n More SJ 73 5 6 11 0.15 11 179 -35\n Quintal STL 73 1 10 11 0.15 11 100 -6\n Ludwig MIN 76 1 10 11 0.14 11 149 0\n Muni CHI 79 0 11 11 0.14 11 73 -15\n Lazaro OTT 26 6 4 10 0.38 10 16 -8\n Norwood STL 32 3 7 10 0.31 10 63 -5\n Featherstone BOS 34 5 5 10 0.29 10 102 6\n Murphy OTT 42 3 7 10 0.24 10 28 -18\n DeBrusk EDM 49 8 2 10 0.20 10 199 -14\n Wells NYR 50 1 9 10 0.20 10 105 -2\n Kimble BOS 54 7 3 10 0.19 10 177 4\n Corkum BUF 67 6 4 10 0.15 10 38 -2\n Dahlquist CAL 73 3 7 10 0.14 10 66 -2\n Gordijuk BUF 16 3 6 9 0.56 9 0 4\n Hurlbut NYR 23 1 8 9 0.39 9 16 4\n Boivin PHI 30 5 4 9 0.30 9 76 -5\n Moller BUF 35 2 7 9 0.26 9 83 6\n Cunneyworth HAR 36 5 4 9 0.25 9 61 -1\n Petrovicky HAR 42 3 6 9 0.21 9 45 -10\n McRae STL 45 3 6 9 0.20 9 167 -13\n Cirella NYR 52 3 6 9 0.17 9 83 4\n Maley SJ 55 2 7 9 0.16 9 143 -27\n Daniels PIT 57 5 4 9 0.16 9 14 -6\n Hughes BOS 61 5 4 9 0.15 9 191 -5\n Lalor WIN 62 1 8 9 0.15 9 74 -13\n K.Samuelson PIT 63 3 6 9 0.14 9 106 25\n McKenzie HAR 63 3 6 9 0.14 9 202 -9\n Kocur NYR 64 3 6 9 0.14 9 129 -9\n Loewen OTT 77 4 5 9 0.12 9 145 -25\n Houlder BUF 13 3 5 8 0.62 8 6 7\n T.Sweeney BOS 14 1 7 8 0.57 8 6 1\n Douris BOS 18 4 4 8 0.44 8 4 5\n Keczmer HAR 21 4 4 8 0.38 8 28 -2\n Greig HAR 22 1 7 8 0.36 8 27 -11\n Day HAR 24 1 7 8 0.33 8 47 -8\n Werenka EDM 27 5 3 8 0.30 8 24 1\n Tatarinov QUE 28 2 6 8 0.29 8 28 6\n McDonough SJ 30 6 2 8 0.27 8 6 -21\n Hill MON 30 2 6 8 0.27 8 47 -5\n K.Brown CHI 31 2 6 8 0.26 8 37 4\n Loiselle NYI 38 5 3 8 0.21 8 84 -4\n Hudson EDM 39 1 7 8 0.21 8 44 -8\n Hedican STL 40 0 8 8 0.20 8 30 -4\n Roberge MON 48 4 4 8 0.17 8 140 3\n Ahola SJ 49 3 5 8 0.16 8 36 -11\n McIntyre NYR 57 3 5 8 0.14 8 82 -14\n Anderson WAS 57 2 6 8 0.14 8 18 -1\n Houda HAR 57 2 6 8 0.14 8 163 -21\n Hartman TB 58 4 4 8 0.14 8 154 -7\n Wilkinson SJ 58 1 7 8 0.14 8 96 -48\n Hammond OTT 61 4 4 8 0.13 8 104 -40\n Barrasso PIT 62 0 8 8 0.13 8 20 0\n Kennedy WIN 77 1 7 8 0.10 8 105 -4\n Eastwood TOR 12 1 6 7 0.58 7 21 -2\n Quintin SJ 14 2 5 7 0.50 7 4 -4\n R.Brown CHI 15 1 6 7 0.47 33 33 6\n Godynyuk CAL 26 3 4 7 0.27 7 17 7\n Rice EDM 26 2 5 7 0.27 7 13 -5\n Murray BOS 27 3 4 7 0.26 7 8 -6\n Wiemer BOS 27 1 6 7 0.26 7 48 -1\n Berezan SJ 28 3 4 7 0.25 7 28 -18\n Marois NYI 28 2 5 7 0.25 7 35 -3\n Mallette NJ 34 4 3 7 0.21 7 56 3\n Hynes PHI 36 3 4 7 0.19 7 16 -3\n Gilhen TB 42 3 4 7 0.17 7 12 -13\n Chase STL 49 2 5 7 0.14 7 204 -9\n Vukota NYI 71 2 5 7 0.10 7 199 4\n Zettler SJ 79 0 7 7 0.09 7 150 -48\n Lafreniere TB 9 3 3 6 0.67 6 4 -5\n Propp MIN 15 3 3 6 0.40 6 0 -8\n Belanger MON 18 4 2 6 0.33 6 4 1\n Kerr HAR 22 0 6 6 0.27 6 7 -11\n Shuchuk LA 23 2 4 6 0.26 6 14 4\n Bergland TB 25 3 3 6 0.24 6 11 -9\n Vaske NYI 25 1 5 6 0.24 6 30 6\n Carney BUF 29 2 4 6 0.21 6 51 2\n Dinnen OTT 31 2 4 6 0.19 6 30 -19\n Albelin NJ 34 1 5 6 0.18 6 14 -1\n Patterson BUF 35 4 2 6 0.17 6 18 -2\n Ladouceur HAR 59 2 4 6 0.10 6 107 -17\n Russell CHI 66 2 4 6 0.09 6 151 5\n Lang LA 11 0 5 5 0.45 5 2 -3\n Lipuma TB 13 0 5 5 0.38 5 32 1\n Brown NJ 15 0 5 5 0.33 5 2 3\n Kozlov DET 16 4 1 5 0.31 5 14 -1\n Savage WAS 16 2 3 5 0.31 5 12 -4\n Bruce SJ 17 2 3 5 0.29 5 33 -14\n Byers SJ 18 4 1 5 0.28 5 122 -2\n Conroy PHI 18 3 2 5 0.28 5 17 0\n Van Allen EDM 21 1 4 5 0.24 5 6 -2\n Richer BOS 23 1 4 5 0.22 5 18 -9\n Wolanin QUE 23 1 4 5 0.22 5 49 8\n Leach HAR 24 3 2 5 0.21 5 4 -7\n Prokhorov STL 26 4 1 5 0.19 5 15 -4\n Kruse CAL 26 2 3 5 0.19 5 41 3\n Richter NYR 35 0 5 5 0.14 5 2 0\n Bawa SJ 41 5 0 5 0.12 5 47 -24\n Osiecki MIN 42 1 4 5 0.12 5 19 -20\n Matvichuk MIN 51 2 3 5 0.10 5 26 -7\n Pedersen HAR 58 1 4 5 0.09 5 60 2\n Jennings PIT 58 0 5 5 0.09 5 65 7\n Essensa WIN 66 0 5 5 0.08 5 2 0\n Ray BUF 68 3 2 5 0.07 5 211 -3\n McKim BOS 7 1 3 4 0.57 4 0 2\n Faust PHI 8 2 2 4 0.50 4 4 3\n Smolinski BOS 8 1 3 4 0.50 4 0 3\n Fogarty PIT 12 0 4 4 0.33 4 4 -3\n Hervey TB 15 0 4 4 0.27 4 36 -4\n Picard SJ 25 4 0 4 0.16 4 24 -17\n Reese CAL 25 0 4 4 0.16 4 4 0\n Romaniuk WIN 28 3 1 4 0.14 4 22 0\n Thompson LA 28 0 4 4 0.14 4 79 -3\n Pilon NYI 41 1 3 4 0.10 4 146 -3\n Giles STL 48 0 4 4 0.08 4 40 -2\n Baron STL 53 2 2 4 0.08 4 59 -5\n Cheveldae DET 66 0 4 4 0.06 4 4 0\n Hankinson NJ 4 2 1 3 0.75 3 9 2\n McDougall EDM 4 2 1 3 0.75 3 4 2\n Felsner STL 4 0 3 3 0.75 3 0 0\n Ruff TB 8 2 1 3 0.38 3 8 -1\n Petrov MON 9 2 1 3 0.33 3 10 2\n Black MIN 10 2 1 3 0.30 3 4 0\n Morris SJ 14 0 3 3 0.21 3 6 -11\n Walter VAN 23 3 0 3 0.13 3 8 -2\n Hrivnak WIN 29 0 3 3 0.10 3 0 0\n Wakaluk MIN 29 0 3 3 0.10 3 20 0\n Dufresne MON 30 1 2 3 0.10 3 30 0\n Cronin PHI 34 2 1 3 0.09 3 37 0\n Smyth CAL 34 1 2 3 0.09 3 95 3\n Hrudey LA 48 0 3 3 0.06 3 8 0\n Marsh OTT 57 0 3 3 0.05 3 30 -25\n Casey MIN 58 0 3 3 0.05 3 28 0\n Berry MIN 61 0 3 3 0.05 3 107 4\n Ranford EDM 66 0 3 3 0.05 3 10 0\n Belfour CHI 69 0 3 3 0.04 3 28 0\n Rivers TB 4 0 2 2 0.50 2 2 -2\n Forslund CAL 5 0 2 2 0.40 2 0 0\n Capuano TB 6 1 1 2 0.33 2 2 -4\n Djoos NYR 6 1 1 2 0.33 2 2 0\n Cummins DET 7 1 1 2 0.29 2 58 0\n Otevrel SJ 7 0 2 2 0.29 2 0 -6\n Kolstad SJ 10 0 2 2 0.20 2 12 -9\n Osborne TB 11 1 1 2 0.18 2 8 -1\n Wood SJ 12 1 1 2 0.17 2 71 -5\n Brickley WIN 12 0 2 2 0.17 2 2 0\n Eakins WIN 14 0 2 2 0.14 2 38 2\n Simon QUE 15 1 1 2 0.13 2 67 -2\n Bennett CHI 16 0 2 2 0.13 2 8 -2\n Gillis HAR 18 1 1 2 0.11 2 38 0\n Carlyle WIN 22 1 1 2 0.09 2 14 -6\n Nylund NYI 22 1 1 2 0.09 2 43 -2\n Blue BOS 22 0 2 2 0.09 2 6 0\n Watters LA 22 0 2 2 0.09 2 18 -3\n Woolley WAS 23 0 2 2 0.09 2 10 0\n Whitmore VAN 29 0 2 2 0.07 2 2 0\n Stauber LA 30 0 2 2 0.07 2 2 0\n W.Young TB 31 0 2 2 0.06 2 2 0\n Roussel PHI 32 0 2 2 0.06 2 11 0\n Twist QUE 34 0 2 2 0.06 2 64 0\n Fiset QUE 37 0 2 2 0.05 2 2 0\n Jablonski TB 42 0 2 2 0.05 2 7 0\n Soderstrom PHI 43 0 2 2 0.05 2 4 0\n Healy NYI 46 0 2 2 0.04 2 2 0\n Burke HAR 50 0 2 2 0.04 2 25 0\n Hextall QUE 53 0 2 2 0.04 2 56 0\n Roy MON 61 0 2 2 0.03 2 16 0\n Vernon CAL 63 0 2 2 0.03 2 42 0\n Joseph STL 66 0 2 2 0.03 2 8 0\n Brown PHI 67 0 2 2 0.03 2 76 -5\n Grimson CHI 76 1 1 2 0.03 2 186 2\n Barnaby BUF 1 1 0 1 1.00 1 0 0\n Ratushny VAN 1 0 1 1 1.00 1 0 0\n Zholtok BOS 1 0 1 1 1.00 1 0 1\n Sullivan NJ 2 0 1 1 0.50 1 0 -1\n Duncanson NYR 3 0 1 1 0.33 1 0 0\n Beaufait SJ 4 1 0 1 0.25 1 0 -1\n Bowen PHI 4 1 0 1 0.25 1 2 0\n MacDonald BUF 4 1 0 1 0.25 1 2 0\n Esau QUE 4 0 1 1 0.25 1 2 1\n D.Smith MIN 9 0 1 1 0.11 1 2 -2\n Vial DET 9 0 1 1 0.11 1 20 1\n Brown BUF 10 0 1 1 0.10 1 6 -5\n Draper BUF 11 0 1 1 0.09 1 2 0\n Karpa QUE 11 0 1 1 0.09 1 13 -6\n Tichy CHI 13 0 1 1 0.08 1 30 7\n Gosselin HAR 15 0 1 1 0.07 1 2 0\n Fortier LA 16 0 1 1 0.06 1 11 -9\n Hayward SJ 18 0 1 1 0.06 1 2 0\n McGill TOR 19 1 0 1 0.05 1 34 5\n Bergeron TB 19 0 1 1 0.05 1 0 0\n Potvin LA 19 0 1 1 0.05 1 52 -9\n Berthiaume OTT 23 0 1 1 0.04 1 2 0\n Racicot MON 25 0 1 1 0.04 1 6 0\n Wregget PIT 25 0 1 1 0.04 1 6 0\n Ciccone MIN 29 0 1 1 0.03 1 106 3\n Puppa TOR 32 0 1 1 0.03 1 0 0\n Hackett SJ 36 0 1 1 0.03 1 4 0\n Fitzpatrick NYI 37 0 1 1 0.03 1 2 0\n Billington NJ 40 0 1 1 0.03 1 8 0\n Potvin TOR 46 0 1 1 0.02 1 4 0\n Vanbiesbrouk NYR 48 0 1 1 0.02 1 18 0\n McLean VAN 54 0 1 1 0.02 1 16 0\n Moog BOS 54 0 1 1 0.02 1 14 0\n Beaupre WAS 57 0 1 1 0.02 1 20 0\n Baumgartner TOR 61 1 0 1 0.02 1 155 -11\n Bales BOS 1 0 0 0 0.00 0 0 0\n Burridge WAS 1 0 0 0 0.00 0 0 0\n Chabot MON 1 0 0 0 0.00 0 0 0\n D'Alessio HAR 1 0 0 0 0.00 0 0 0\n Littman TB 1 0 0 0 0.00 0 0 0\n Parks NYI 1 0 0 0 0.00 0 0 0\n Semchuk LA 1 0 0 0 0.00 0 2 0\n St. Amour OTT 1 0 0 0 0.00 0 2 0\n Cimellaro OTT 2 0 0 0 0.00 0 0 -2\n Cote TB 2 0 0 0 0.00 0 0 -1\n Marcinyshyn NYR 2 0 0 0 0.00 0 2 -1\n O'Neill WIN 2 0 0 0 0.00 0 0 0\n Raglan TB 2 0 0 0 0.00 0 2 0\n Williams LA 2 0 0 0 0.00 0 10 0\n Charron MON 3 0 0 0 0.00 0 2 0\n Ciavaglia BUF 3 0 0 0 0.00 0 0 0\n Cloutier QUE 3 0 0 0 0.00 0 0 0\n Hamr OTT 3 0 0 0 0.00 0 0 -3\n Wamsley TOR 3 0 0 0 0.00 0 0 0\n Hirsch NYR 4 0 0 0 0.00 0 0 0\n O'Connor NJ 7 0 0 0 0.00 0 9 -4\n J.Messier NYR 9 0 0 0 0.00 0 6 0\n Knickle LA 10 0 0 0 0.00 0 2 0\n Chapdelaine LA 13 0 0 0 0.00 0 12 -6\n Shannon TOR 15 0 0 0 0.00 0 11 -2\n Agnew HAR 16 0 0 0 0.00 0 68 3\n Waite CHI 20 0 0 0 0.00 0 0 0\n Langway WAS 21 0 0 0 0.00 0 20 -13\n Riendeau DET 22 0 0 0 0.00 0 2 0\n Hebert STL 23 0 0 0 0.00 0 2 0\n Tabaracci WAS 23 0 0 0 0.00 0 12 0\n Tugnutt EDM 25 0 0 0 0.00 0 2 0\n Caufield PIT 26 0 0 0 0.00 0 60 -1\n Hasek BUF 27 0 0 0 0.00 0 0 0\n Pietrangelo HAR 30 0 0 0 0.00 0 4 0\n Irbe SJ 35 0 0 0 0.00 0 10 0\n Terreri NJ 47 0 0 0 0.00 0 6 0\n Fuhr BUF 56 0 0 0 0.00 0 10 0\n Sidorkiewicz OTT 63 0 0 0 0.00 0 8 0\n-- ", "Melido came off the DL today and will start tonight against the Rangers.\n(Now, if only he can go the distance so that the bullpen doesn't have to\ncome in.....)\n\n--I'm outta here like Vladimir!\n-Alan Sepinwall", "\n\nI think, as do the owners, that hockey will do well in Miami since there\nis a lot of people from the Northeast that spend their winters in\nFlorida every year. As for the coverage, someone will have to come up\nwith some money for that since broadcast rights can be expensive!\n\nJust my $0.02!\n\nDale", "} >} [Stuff about upated inning scores deleted.]\n} >at just that exact time to see the message. even results after the game\n} >is over are not necessary, thanks to Mr. Hernandez who posts daily\n} >standings and results here every day.\n} \n} Am I supposed to take that as a compliment or a put down? Just wondering.\n\nit was meant entirely, 100%, as a compliment.\n\n} I do this as a service to the entire baseball world on USENET, especially\n} for those in the East Coast who can't get final scores for West Coast games\n} in their newspapers or late TV newscasts. This is helpful to fans in other\n} countries who either receive only weekly scores or updates by the week. Also,\n} many have requested for this kind of service previously but it was only\n} available through BBS's or some pay news services. By the way, mine is free\n} of charge and has no copyright restrictions.\n\ni was not trying to criticize your service at all.\nin fact, i was trying to encourage others to use it.\ni don't personally use it, but i'm sure others do, and that was my point in\nposting--there is no need for individuals to duplicate, in an ad hoc fashion,\nwhat you have already organized.\n \n} >if you want to send updates and scores, set up a private mailing list\n} >and use that.\n} \n} Remember I only post final scores and the updated standings once a day to the\n} rec.sport.baseball newsgroup. Other than that, everything is done through\n} private e-mail. Currently, there are 986 people on my mailing list that\n} branches off into other mailing lists available for many others. And the list\n} grows by an average of 35 people a day.\n\nhaving one person, such as yourself, who does it, is a great idea.\nhaving 100 do it is not. that's all.\n\nkeep up the good work, Joseph.", "\nWhy not? Brooks Robinson is a defensive liability too, and Ted\nWilliams is a weak hitter. Even great players decline as they age.", "much\nPure and Simple, Grant Fuhr is money. He has been awesome in the playoffs,\nespecially last night. But Mogilny has been scoring well, and his russian\nfriend Kymlev (sp?) has also done well. But Fuhr is the biggest reason they\nare winning, and the difference between this year's team and previous years.", "\nFirst,Happy Birthday,Val. Second, ESPN's affinity with Patrick has probably\nmore to do with the travel/production costs for a once a week NHN(National Hockey\nNight) affair.(ESPN-ABC owner,Capital Cities, is a company known for being\nquite thrifty with minimal overhead costs. It's quite possible that Jim\nSchoenfeld may be working for doughnuts :-).\n\nGary Thorne and Bill Clement are both NJ-based and the rest of ESPN crew\nresides in the suburban CT with a very close proximity to tri-state area.\nPlus,it makes sense in terms of solid hockey following in the NorthEast\ncorridor(PA-NY-NJ-DC/Maryland). Whereas,in the Adams you have only\n3-American based teams, out of which 2(Buffalo and Hartford) are not\nin Top-20 US TV-markets.", "Bufflo Sabres has just finished their great four wins over Boston. All\nSabres players contribute to those great wins but those talent players\nincluding Mogily, Fuhr, Kemhlev and Lafontin impressed me most. Their \nskills showed the art of sport, not like the garbage speech from the\ncoach's corner.", "\nUntil six or seven years ago I was an enthusiastic fan of NFL football.\nLast year I hardly watched a game. What turned me off were the\nincessant interruptions to the continuity of the game. A team scores.\n2.5 minutes of commercials. Kickoff. 1.5 minutes of commercials.\nThree downs and a punt. 2 minutes of commercials. AAAAARRRRGH!\n\nEarlier in this thread I commented on LaRussa and the A's, whom I\nbelieve institutionalize slow play. I don't mind the cat-and-mouse\ngame with Rickey on first; in fact, I rather enjoy it. Similarly\nI would enjoy the battle with Listach or Lofton or Polonia on first. What\nI object to is when such games are played with Karkovice on first,\nor when the game is a blowout. I don't mind when the pitcher steps off \nthe mound to gather his thoughts in a crucial situation, or when a hitter\nsteps out of the box to regain his concentration. What I object to\nis when hitters and pitchers take such breaks at every opportunity.\nWhen a game is exciting, these little delays serve as tension builders\nand for me enhance the value of the experience of the game. When the\ndelays happen with regularity, they become nuisances, just like the\ncommercial breaks in football. \n\nI understand the NFL imposed a number of rule changes to \"speed up\"\nthe games, basically putting an onus on the officiating staff to move\nthe markers and the ball to the spots faster. That did not address\nthe problem of the continuity of the game. It may have appeased the\nsponsors and the networks, but I would be amazed if it did anything\nto enhance the experience of the fans.\n\nSimilary, while some 3-hour baseball games bore me to tears, those are the\nones where there is no continuity and the players are taking exasperatingly\nlong periods to get ready for each pitch. I doubt if anyone watching\nthe Braves-Giants game cared about Gant stepping out. I doubt if anyone\nwatching that game would have found that pause to be anything but an\nopportunity to have their complete attention claimed by the drama that\nwas present. I would be totally opposed to any effort that would\neliminate that aspect of baseball.\n\nOn the other hand, I wish baseball had a commissioner that was powerful\nenough to sit down with Alderson/LaRussa/Duncan and explain that they\nare actually hurting the product of baseball by dragging their games \nout the way that they do. I sure wouldn't mind a little arm-twisting\nthere.\n\n\n\n--\tThe Beastmaster\n\n\n\n\n", "[...]\n\nShouldn't this read \"Braves Hitters are at the AAA Club?\"\n-- \nDale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Baseball fanatic", "\n\nYeah, they finally came to agreement on a contract. As soon as the ink was\ndry, he suddenly decided Kansas City was a neat place to be. (ergo, the\n\"want to play for the national team\" was a bargaining chip).\n", "I really feel the need for a knowledgable hockey observer to explain this year's playoffs to me. I mean, the obviously superior Toronto team with the best center and the best goalie in the league keeps losing. What gives?\n\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n \nI stand by all the misstatements that I've made.\n\t\t-- Vice President Dan Quayle to Sam Donaldson, 8/17/89", "Here is a summary of Don Cherry's coach's corner from April 18, 1993.\nIt took place in the first intermission of game 1 of the Montreal-Quebec\nseries. \n\nPre-game comments\n-----------------\nDon's pregame comments were mostly aimed at the goalies... The goalie\nwho gets back his all-star form (Roy or Hextall) can win the series\nfor his team.\n\nEposode Summary\n---------------\nThis episode took place rinkside. Don was holding a hot dog that\nhe bought from the concession stand.\n\nRon Maclean started out by showing a cartoon which appeared in the\nToronto Sun. It featured a picture of Don, who just saw his shadow\nand proclaimed \"Will you look at dat, eh? Means another 6 weeks\nof me. Beauty.\"\n\nNext, Don talked about the hot dog he was holding. According to\nhim, the hot dogs at the Quebec stadium are the best food in all\nthe arenas in the NHL.\n\nFrom there, Don commented on the Quebec-Montreal game. The game\nhad great flow, because Referee Paul Stewart calls the best game\nin the NHL. In contrast, the Calgary-LA game was terrible... All\nstop-and-go, over 50 minutes of penalties called against Calgary\nby Dan Marouelli. Its getting so that the ref who calls the most\npenalties gets to ref in the finals.\n\nNext, Ron showed an old picture of Don, when he was playing for\nthe Rochester Americans of the AHL. Don recalled some of the\nwins that he had in the Quebec arena... during the Memorial cup\nand the AHL championships.\n\nFinally, Don and Ron discussed Keenan becoming coach of the\nRangers. The rangers were a talented team who underachieved.\nDon feels sorry for temporary coach Ron Smith, who had\nseveral key injuries (to Leetch and Patrick) and goalies who\nwent cold.\n\nDon had some criticism for the Rangers team... The party's over,\nAdolf (Keenan) is there. The Rangers organization will no longer\nbe a 'country club'.... \"NY should be achamed of themselves... If\nthey go in the tank with Adolf there, they'll be hanging from the\nyardarm by their thumbs.\"\n\n\nRating\n------\nNothing too special in this episode.\n\nI'll give it a 5.5 out of 10.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n \\ \\ |Allan Sullivan (allan@cs.ualberta.ca)\n \\ \\ |Department of Computing Science,\n \\ \\_______ |University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.\n \\ ### \\ _ |---------------------------------------------------\n \\___###___\\ (_) |My opinions are mine and mine alone.\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\"It is amazing how much can be accomplished if no one cares who gets the\n credit...\" - U. of A. Golden Bears Hockey Motto (C. Drake)", "\n Markus had a good season in MoDo in the Swedish elite league, scoring\n 22 goals, 17 assists, 39 points and 67 PIM in 39 games.\n\n As Daryl points out, Markus won't be joining the Pens for this year's\n playoffs, since the World Championships starts April 18th.\n\n But there is a good chance that Markus will join the Pens before next\n season. MoDo, though, naturally wants to keep their superstars Forsberg\n and Naslund, so the latest news on this is that MoDo is looking for\n personal sponsors for Forsberg and Naslund in order to match the kind\n of money they would receive in NHL.\n\n\n Actually, Swedish coach Curt Lundmark is thinking about leaving two\n spots open for additions from eliminated NHLers. It is Mats Sundin and\n Calle Johansson that Curt hopes can join the team, although in a late\n stage of the tournament. Technically, I seem to recall that you can leave\n spots open until 24 hrs before the WC final.\n\n Staffan", "\nI agree. Home runs off Clemens are always memorable. Kinda like\neclipses and hurricanes. They don't happen very often.", "\n: Unfortunately, that is the way the league is heading... You can't fight,\n: so the only way to retaliate against someone is with a cheap shot when\n: the ref isn't looking. Ulf has brought this to a high level... Players\n: stuck in the past (like Neely) who prefer fights to cheap shots\n: are at a disadvantage in the new system.\n\n: Lets face it, A cheap shot (like high sticking) is a very effective\n: method... It is easier to hide from the refs, has a better chance of\n: causing injury, and you can draw people into fights that way. I don't\n: like it, but that's the way the league is going.\n\n: By the way, there was a rather good hit by Ulf in the last Penguin-Devil\n: game. Managed to hit the NJ player in the face with a stick. (Must have been a\n: legal hit... After all, Ulf is a clean player and is allowed to do\n: things like that.)\n\nAre there any ex NHL hockey players out there who might care to\ncomment on this and end this ridiculously long discussion?\n", "\nUm. How many games have the Orioles won?\n\n\nHe is, or will be.\n\n\nNo, currently there's no room for him in the rotation. Key is having\na Most Impressive April. Abbott is pitching well. Perez is back.\nWickman has pitched his way into the rotation, and is holding his spot\nwith an outstanding performance his last time out. And Kamieniecki\nisn't doing too poorly himself.\n\nIf the Yankees find themselves in need of a starter, Militello will\nget another chance. Until then, he'll have to wait in line.", "Since everyone else seems to be running wild with predictions, I've\ndecided to add my own fuel to the fire:\nThey might seem a bit normal, but there are a few (albeit, small) surprises.\n\nAmerican League East\t W\t L\tGB\n1)New York Yankees\t93\t69\t--\n2)Baltimore Orioles\t90\t72\t 3\n3)Toronto Blue Jays\t86\t76\t 7\n4)Cleveland Indians 84 78 9\n5)Boston Red Sox\t77\t85\t16\n6)Milwaukee Brewers\t74\t88\t19\n7)Detroit Tigers\t73\t89\t20\n\nAmerican League West\t W\t L\tGB\n1)Minnesota Twins\t94\t68\t--\n2)Kansas City Royals\t92\t70\t 2\n3)Texas Rangers \t85\t77\t 9\n4)Chicago White Sox\t77\t85\t17\n5)Oakland Athletics\t74\t88\t20\n6)Seattle Mariners\t70\t92\t24\n7)California Angels\t65\t97\t29\n\nAL MVP-Kirby Puckett\nAL Cy Young-Kevin Appier\nAL Rookie of the Year-Tim Salmon\nAL Manager of the Year-Buck Showalter\nAL Comeback Player of the Year-Ozzie Guillen\n\nNational League East\t W\t L\tGB\n1)St. Louis Cardinals\t91\t71\t--\n2)Philadelphia Phillies 89\t73\t 2\n3)Montreal Expos\t88\t74\t 3\n4)New York Mets\t\t84\t78\t 7\n5)Chicago Cubs\t\t79\t83\t12\n6)Pittsburgh Pirates\t73\t89\t18\n7)Florida Marlins\t54 108\t37\n\nNational League West\t W\t L\tGB\n1)Atlanta Braves\t96\t66\t--\n2)Cincinnati Reds\t94\t68\t 2\n3)Houston Astros\t89\t73\t 7\n4)Los Angeles Dodgers\t82\t80\t14\n5)San Francisco Giants\t81\t81\t15\n6)San Diego Padres\t75\t87\t21\n7)Colorado Rockies\t59 103\t37\n\nNL MVP-Barry Larkin\nNL Cy Young-John Smoltz\nNL Rookie of the Year-Wil Cordero\nNL Manager of the Year-Joe Torre\nNL Comeback Player of the Year-Eric Davis\n\nNL Champions-St. Louis Cardinals\nAL Champions-Minnesota Twins\nWorld Champions-St. Louis Cardinals\n\nThe St. Louis picks are what my heart says.\nWhat my brain says, is they will win the division, lose to the Braves\nin the NLCS, and the Braves will win the Series against Minnesota.\nBut for now, I'll stick with the Cards all the way.", "\t.\n\t.\n\t.\n\nSince I was born in the late Pleistocene, I too remember 1964. That year,\nthe Dodgers were several games out of first and I think finished sixth in the\nleague. This was kind of odd because they won the World Series both the\nprevious year and the following year.\n \n\n-- \nWarren Usui", "Let's look at the effects of inflation on 1930's superstars' salaries.\n\nI read once that the Babe made $80,000 one year and that was about as good \nas it got for him.\n\nLet's assume he made that in 1928 (I'm not sure of the figures, but I know\nI'm in the ballpark--pun intended). :-)\n\nToday, assuming a 4% yearly inflation rate, which is an understatement if\nnot accurate, his measly $80,000 salary would be worth.\n\nFV = $80,000 x (1+4%)^(1993-1928)\n = $80,000 x (1.04)^65\n = just over $1,000,000.\n\nAssuming inflation is average of around 5%.\n\nFV = $80,000 x (1+5%)^65\n = almost 2,000,000.\n\n(I didn't crunch these numbers beforehand).\n\nThese numbers might lead one to believe that today's players are slightly \noverpaid. The Babe appears to have made then what today's average to above\naverage players make now. Perfectly accurate salary, year of salary, and \naverage inflation rate would make this analysis more accurate, but I don`t \nthink I'm off by much.\n\nChop Chop\n\nMichael Mule' \n\n\n", "Dale Hunter ties the game, scoring his third goal of the game\nwith 2.7 seconds remaining in regulation.\n\n You could feel it coming on.\n\n \"Due to contractual agreements, ESPN will be unable to carry\nthe rest of this game live, so that we may show you a worthless\nearly-season battle between those two pennant contenders, the \nCleveland Indians and the California Angels. When the winning\ngoal is scored, we WILL do the grave injustice of breaking into the\nbaseball game -- something reserved only for the deaths of Presidents\nor the trading of Joe Montana to the Chiefs -- to show you the \ngoal on instant replay.\n \"Aren't you SO lucky to have national coverage of hockey?\"\n\n It's HEIDI all over again, dammit!", "America West Airline Tickets for Sale\n\nTwo $300 vouchers on America West Airlines, which can be used toward the purchase of tickets to wherever that airline goes. There are no restrictions and no blackout times. They're legally transferable and can be used anytime before July 1. Asking $250 each.", "1993-1994 NHL Hockey Pool\nBy\nDenis Papp and Chris Stoochnoff\n \nRules:\n \n- Pick 17 players (3 LW, 3 C, 3 RW, 3 LD, 3 RD, 2 Goalies)\n You may pick ANY 17 players from any team.\n \n- Points for players are as follows:\n - 1 point per goal\n - 1 point per assist\n - 1 point per 10 PIM\n \n- Points for goalies are as follows:\n - 2 points per win\n - 1 point per tie\n - 1 point per assist\n - 1 point per 5 PIM\n - 2 points per shutout\n - 100 points per goal\n \nEntries:\n \n-Entries can be sent (by mail or ascii text file) to Chris Stoochnoff or Denis\nPapp on Hard Wired BBS (434-7996). \n-Due date for entries is the first day of regular season play. After that,\nno more entries will be accepted (unless it is just slightly late. If that is\nthe case, there will be a small penalty applied to the team).\n-internet users can send email to dpapp@muskwa.ucs.ualberta.ca\n \nPrizes:\n \nPrizes have not yet been considered. They could range from nothing to free\ntime on Hard Wired BBS or even something else (if you have any suggestions...\nplease feel free to put your two cents worth in).\n One idea is to get whoever is willing to to submit an equal amount of\nmoney, and that will go to be the prize money. The prize money will\ngo to the top team who has submitted to the prize pool. A list\nof all people who submit money will be posted, as well as those who\ndidnt - if it is done this way. \nCost:\n \nThe cost... ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!! There is absolutely no fee for this pool.\n \nNote:\n \n-If you have any questions, please feel free to send them to Denis Papp or\nmyself (Chris Stoochnoff). The players positions (ie. Brett Hull is Right\nWing) will be decided by the year book I will be using. So, if you do not\nknow a certain players position, or you are not completely sure what position\nhe plays, then ask me and I'll tell you.\n \n-And for a great time, call the Hard Wired BBS at (403)-434-7996 (this will be\nthe location where the pool standings will be displayed).\n \nInternet Users:", "\n\n\n\nNot boring is right!!! It is more likely to cause me to have a stroke!!\nI had to listen to game two on the Blackhawk station and I don't think I\ncould take another call of \"And JOSEPH makes a SPEcTACular saaaaaave\".\nNow I'm a Blues fan, but I don't want them to play \"like\" they played\nin game two. Sure the result was fine, but the Blues match up very well\nwith the Hawks so they really don't need to treat them like the 86 Flames.\nWe don't need a \"Monday Night Miracle\" to have a chance to beat Chicago.\nThe Blues can do it on talent. At least over the hawks.\n\nRich h.--- Go BLUES!!", "MLB Standings and Scores for Tuesday, April 6th, 1993\n\t (including yesterday's games)\n\nNATIONAL WEST\t Won Lost Pct. GB Last 10 Streak Home Road\nAtlanta Braves 01 00 1.000 -- 1-0 Won 1 00-00 01-00\nCincinnati Reds 01 00 1.000 -- 1-0 Won 1 01-00 00-00\nSan Diego Padres 00 00 .000 0.5 0-0 --- 00-00 00-00\nSan Francisco Giants 00 00 .000 0.5 0-0 --- 00-00 00-00\nColorado Rockies 00 01 .000 1.0 0-1 Lost 1 00-00 00-01\nHouston Astros 00 01 .000 1.0 0-1 Lost 1 00-01 00-00\nLos Angeles Dodgers 00 01 .000 1.0 0-1 Lost 1 00-00 00-01\n\nNATIONAL EAST\nFlorida Marlins 01 00 1.000 -- 1-0 Won 1 01-00 00-00\nNew York Mets 01 00 1.000 -- 1-0 Won 1 01-00 00-00\nPhiladelphia Phillies 01 00 1.000 -- 1-0 Won 1 00-00 01-00\nPittsburgh Pirates 00 00 .000 0.5 0-0 --- 00-00 00-00\nSt. Louis Cardinals 00 00 .000 0.5 0-0 --- 00-00 00-00\nChicago Cubs 00 01 .000 1.0 0-1 Lost 1 00-01 00-00\nMontreal Expos 00 01 .000 1.0 0-1 Lost 1 00-00 00-01\n\n\nAMERICAN WEST Won Lost Pct. GB Last 10 Streak Home Road\nOakland Athletics 01 00 1.000 -- 1-0 Won 1 01-00 00-00\nTexas Rangers 01 00 1.000 -- 1-0 Won 1 00-00 01-00\nCalifornia Angels 00 00 .000 0.5 0-0 --- 00-00 00-00\nChicago White Sox 00 00 .000 0.5 0-0 --- 00-00 00-00\nMinnesota Twins 00 00 .000 0.5 0-0 --- 00-00 00-00\nSeattle Mariners 00 00 .000 0.5 0-0 --- 00-00 00-00\nKansas City Royals 00 01 .000 1.0 0-1 Lost 1 00-01 00-00\n\nAMERICAN EAST\nBoston Red Sox 01 00 1.000 -- 1-0 Won 1 00-00 01-00\nNew York Yankees 01 00 1.000 -- 1-0 Won 1 00-00 01-00\nMilwaukee Brewers 00 00 .000 0.5 0-0 --- 00-00 00-00\nToronto Blue Jays 00 00 .000 0.5 0-0 --- 00-00 00-00\nBaltimore Orioles 00 01 .000 1.0 0-1 Lost 1 00-01 00-00\nCleveland Indians 00 01 .000 1.0 0-1 Lost 1 00-01 00-00\nDetroit Tigers 00 01 .000 1.0 0-1 Lost 1 00-00 00-01\n\n\n\t\t\t YESTERDAY'S SCORES\n\nNATIONAL LEAGUE\t\t\t\tAMERICAN LEAGUE\n\nMontreal\t1\t\t\tNew York\t9\nCincinnati\t2\t\t\tCleveland\t1\n\nAtlanta\t\t1\t\t\tTexas\t\t7\nChicago\t\t0\t\t\tBaltimore\t4\n\nLos Angeles\t3\t\t\tBoston\t\t3\nFlorida\t\t6\t\t\tKansas City\t1\n\nPhiladelphia\t3\t\t\tDetroit\t\t4\nHouston\t\t1\t\t\tOakland\t\t9\n\nColorado\t0\t\t\tCalifornia IDLE\nNew York\t3\t\t\tChicago IDLE\t\t\n\nPittsburgh IDLE\t\t\tMilwaukee IDLE\nSt. Louis IDLE\t\t\tMinnesota IDLE\n\nSan Diego IDLE\t\t\tSeattle\t IDLE\nSan FranciscoIDLE\t\t\tToronto IDLE\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nJoseph Hernandez | RAMS | | /.\\ ******* _|_|_ / | LAKERS\njtchern@ocf.Berkeley.EDU | KINGS | |__ | | DODGERS _|_|_ | | RAIDERS\njtcent@soda.Berkeley.EDU | ANGELS |____||_|_| ******* | | |___| CLIPPERS", "\nWow. ESPN can repeat eleven-year-old Bill James research. (Literally.\nCheck the 1982 Abstract.) \n\n\nPerhaps in 2004 they'll be as reliable as an average SDCN.\n\n\nOops, maybe not.", "\n\nHeh, someone mentioned Tommy Soderstrom (Flyers) for the besk mask poll\ntoo (in the mentioned below part). All he has is a plain white helmet\nwith a big cage.\nI found this pretty amusing.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t-John Santore\n\nPhiladelphia Flyers in '93-'94!\n\n=============================================================================\n ____________________ \n/ \\ \"We break the surface tension \n\\_________ ____ \\ with our wild kinetic dreams\"\n/ / \\ \\ -Rush, Grand Designs\n\\_______ / (*) ) )\n/ / /\\___/ / Go Philadelphia Flyers!\n\\_____ / / /\n/ / \\_______/ John Santore (jsbh@andrew.cmu.edu)\n\\________/ ", "I haven't been following the previous HR's. But there are two, that I saw\nlive that would have to be up there (up where? there!). \n1) Rick Monday's HR to bury the Expos in the NL championship in 1981.\nIt was hit off Steve Rogers, who is a RHP and primarily a starter.\nWhy was he used as a reliever when the 'Spos had Reardon and BillLee\nwarming up in the bullpen. Considering Monday couldn't touch LHP,\nLee would have been a safe bet. He wasn't even doing any drugs at that\ntime (or so he told me and around 50 others on a recent venture into \nMontreal. The blast wasn't the important aspect. It was the timing.\nSeventh game, a tie game, and in the top of the 9th. The Expos almost\ncame back though...\n2) Mike Schmidt hit one that killed the Expos in 1980. So close, yet, so\nfar.\nand\n3) Strawberry killed a pitch on the second day of the season a couple of\nyears ago. It went off the technical ring in the Big O. It almost left\nthe stadium! That was hit HARD!!!\n\t\t\t\tCorelMARK! \n", "\nOkay, I'll bite. How can OBP be *lower* than batting average?\nSac flies or something?", "MLB Standings and Scores for Friday, April 16th, 1993\n\t (including yesterday's games)\n\nNATIONAL WEST\t Won Lost Pct. GB Last 10 Streak Home Road\nSan Francisco Giants 06 04 .600 -- 6-4 Won 1 03-01 03-03\nHouston Astros 05 04 .556 0.5 5-4 Lost 1 00-03 05-01\nAtlanta Braves 06 05 .545 0.5 5-5 Lost 2 03-03 03-02\nColorado Rockies 03 05 .375 2.0 3-5 Won 1 03-03 00-02\nLos Angeles Dodgers 03 07 .300 3.0 3-7 Lost 4 00-03 03-04\nSan Diego Padres 02 07 .222 3.5 2-7 Lost 4 00-04 02-03\nCincinnati Reds 02 07 .222 3.5 2-7 Lost 3 01-02 01-05\n\nNATIONAL EAST\nPhiladelphia Phillies 08 01 .889 -- 8-1 Won 5 05-01 03-00\nPittsburgh Pirates 07 02 .778 1.0 7-2 Won 4 03-02 04-00\nSt. Louis Cardinals 07 02 .778 1.0 7-2 Won 3 04-02 03-00\nNew York Mets 04 04 .500 3.5 4-4 Lost 1 02-03 02-01\nChicago Cubs 04 05 .444 4.0 4-5 Won 1 01-02 03-03\nMontreal Expos 04 05 .444 4.0 4-5 Won 1 01-02 03-03\nFlorida Marlins 03 06 .333 5.0 3-6 Won 1 02-04 01-02\n\n\nAMERICAN WEST Won Lost Pct. GB Last 10 Streak Home Road\nTexas Rangers 06 02 .750 -- 6-2 Lost 1 04-02 02-00\nCalifornia Angels 05 02 .714 0.5 5-2 Won 3 03-02 02-00\nChicago White Sox 04 04 .500 2.0 4-4 Won 1 02-03 02-01\nMinnesota Twins 04 04 .500 2.0 4-4 Lost 1 01-02 03-02\nOakland Athletics 04 04 .500 2.0 4-4 Lost 2 04-02 00-02\nSeattle Mariners 04 04 .500 2.0 4-4 Lost 1 03-02 01-02\nKansas City Royals 02 07 .222 4.5 2-7 Won 1 01-05 01-02\n\nAMERICAN EAST\nBoston Red Sox 07 02 .778 -- 7-2 Won 3 03-00 04-02\nToronto Blue Jays 05 03 .625 1.5 5-3 Won 1 04-02 01-01\nNew York Yankees 05 04 .556 2.0 5-4 Lost 1 02-01 03-03\nDetroit Tigers 04 04 .500 2.5 4-4 Won 2 02-00 02-04\nCleveland Indians 03 06 .333 4.0 3-6 Lost 3 02-01 01-05\nMilwaukee Brewers 02 05 .286 4.0 2-5 Lost 4 00-02 02-03\nBaltimore Orioles 02 06 .222 4.5 2-6 Won 1 00-02 02-04\n\n\n\t\t\t YESTERDAY'S SCORES\n (IDLE teams listed in alphabetical order)\n\nNATIONAL LEAGUE\t\t\t\tAMERICAN LEAGUE\n\nHouston Astros\t\t1\t\tSeattle Mariners\t1\nMontreal Expos\t\t2\t\tToronto Blue Jays\t3\n\nNew York Mets\t\t3\t\tOakland Athletics\t2\nColorado Rockies\t5\t\tDetroit Tigers\t\t3\n\nPittsburgh Pirates\t5\t\tKansas City Royals\t5\nSan Diego Padres\t4 (13)\t\tNew York Yankees\t4\n\nSt. Louis Cardinals\t4\t\tCleveland Indians\t3\nLos Angeles Dodgers\t2\t\tBoston Red Sox\t\t4 (13)\n\nAtlanta Braves\t\t1\t\tCalifornia Angels PPD\nSan Francisco Giants\t6\t\tMilwaukee Brewers RAIN\n\nChicago Cubs\t IDLE\t\tBaltimore Orioles IDLE\nCincinnati Reds IDLE\t\tChicago White Sox IDLE\n\nFlorida Marlins IDLE\t\tMinnesota Twins IDLE\nPhiladelphia PhilliesIDLE\t\tTexas Rangers IDLE\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nJoseph Hernandez | RAMS | | /.\\ ******* _|_|_ / | LAKERS\njtchern@ocf.Berkeley.EDU | KINGS | |__ | | DODGERS _|_|_ | | RAIDERS\njtcent@soda.Berkeley.EDU | ANGELS |____||_|_| ******* | | |___| CLIPPERS", "POSTING FOR A FRIEND- I do not have these tickets.\n\n\tInterested parties can call John at (408) 522-1904 for more\n\tinformation. There are three lift tickets and they are good\n for anytime this season at Squaw Valley ski resort.\n", "NOTE: Saturday, April 20th's scores should be sent out by this coming Friday.\n\n\t MLB Standings and Scores for Tuesday, April 20th, 1993\n\t (including yesterday's games)\n\nNATIONAL WEST\t Won Lost Pct. GB Last 10 Streak Home Road\nSan Francisco Giants 08 05 .615 -- 7-3 Won 1 05-02 03-03\nHouston Astros 07 05 .583 0.5 7-3 Won 1 02-04 05-01\nAtlanta Braves 07 07 .500 1.5 4-6 Lost 1 04-03 03-04\nLos Angeles Dodgers 06 07 .462 2.0 4-6 Won 3 03-03 03-04\nSan Diego Padres 05 07 .417 2.5 5-5 Won 3 03-04 02-03\nColorado Rockies 04 07 .364 3.0 4-6 Lost 1 03-03 01-04\nCincinnati Reds 03 09 .250 4.5 2-8 Won 1 02-04 01-05\n\nNATIONAL EAST\nPhiladelphia Phillies 09 03 .750 -- 7-3 Won 1 05-01 04-02\nPittsburgh Pirates 07 05 .583 2.0 5-5 Lost 3 03-02 04-03\nSt. Louis Cardinals 07 05 .583 2.0 6-4 Lost 3 04-02 03-03\nNew York Mets 06 05 .545 2.5 5-5 Lost 1 02-03 04-02\nChicago Cubs 06 06 .500 3.0 5-5 Lost 1 03-03 03-03\nMontreal Expos 06 06 .500 3.0 5-5 Won 1 03-03 03-03\nFlorida Marlins 04 08 .333 5.0 3-7 Lost 1 02-04 02-04\n\n\nAMERICAN WEST Won Lost Pct. GB Last 10 Streak Home Road\nTexas Rangers 08 03 .727 -- 7-3 Won 2 04-02 04-01\nCalifornia Angels 06 04 .600 1.5 6-4 Lost 1 03-02 03-02\nMinnesota Twins 06 05 .545 2.0 6-4 Lost 1 03-03 03-02\nChicago White Sox 05 07 .417 3.5 4-6 Lost 3 02-03 03-04\nSeattle Mariners 05 07 .417 3.5 4-6 Won 1 03-02 02-05\nOakland Athletics 04 06 .400 3.5 4-6 Lost 4 04-02 00-04\nKansas City Royals 03 09 .250 5.5 3-7 Won 1 01-05 02-04\n\nAMERICAN EAST\nBoston Red Sox 10 03 .769 -- 7-3 Won 3 06-01 04-02\nDetroit Tigers 07 05 .583 2.5 7-3 Lost 1 05-01 02-04\nToronto Blue Jays 07 05 .583 2.5 6-4 Won 1 04-02 03-03\nNew York Yankees 06 06 .500 3.5 5-5 Lost 2 03-03 03-03\nMilwaukee Brewers 04 05 .444 4.0 4-5 Won 2 02-02 02-03\nCleveland Indians 05 08 .385 5.0 3-7 Lost 1 04-03 01-05\nBaltimore Orioles 04 07 .364 5.0 4-6 Won 1 02-03 02-04\n\n\n\t\t\t YESTERDAY'S SCORES\n (IDLE teams listed in alphabetical order)\n\nNATIONAL LEAGUE\t\t\t\tAMERICAN LEAGUE\n\nHouston Astros\t PPD\t\tChicago White Sox\t0\nChicago Cubs\t RAIN\t\tBoston Red Sox\t\t6\n\nAtlanta Braves IDLE\t\tToronto Blue Jays\t7\nCincinnati Reds IDLE\t\tCleveland Indians\t1\n\nColorado Rockies IDLE\t\tSeattle Mariners 10\nFlorida Marlins IDLE\t\tDetroit Tigers\t\t6\n\nLos Angeles Dodgers IDLE\t\tBaltimore Orioles IDLE\nMontreal Expos IDLE\t\tCalifornia Angels IDLE\n\nNew York Mets IDLE\t\tKansas City Royals IDLE\nPhiladelphia PhilliesIDLE\t\tMilwaukee Brewers IDLE\n\nPittsburgh Pirates IDLE\t\tMinnesota Twins IDLE\nSt. Louis Cardinals IDLE\t\tNew York Yankees IDLE\n\nSan Francisco Giants IDLE\t\tOakland Athletics IDLE\nSan Diego Padres IDLE\t\tTexas Rangers IDLE\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nJoseph Hernandez | RAMS | | /.\\ ******* _|_|_ / | LAKERS\njtchern@ocf.Berkeley.EDU | KINGS | |__ | | DODGERS _|_|_ | | RAIDERS\njtcent@soda.Berkeley.EDU | ANGELS |____||_|_| ******* | | |___| CLIPPERS", "If you wanted to send your own letter to the NHL where would you send it?\nBrett E. Ball\n", "I was watching the Detroit-Minnesota game last night and thought I saw an\noctopus on the ice after Ysebaert scored to tie the game at two. What gives?\n(is there some custom to throw octopuses on the ice in Detroit?)\n-------\nNot Responsible -- Dain Bramaged!!", "\nNot clear to me at all. I'd certainly rather have a team who was winning\n4-1 games than 2-1 games. In the 2-1 game, luck is going to play a much\nbigger role than in the 4-1 game. ", "DALLAS HELPS HAWKS STAY IN MONCTON\nAfter announcing that they would pull their affiliation out\nof Moncton, the Winnipeg Jets changed their mind. \n\nThe Jets announced the move when they said that they would be slashing\ntheir minor league roster from 20-something to around a dozen; and they\nwanted to share with an existing AHL or IHL franchise.\n\nEnter the Dallas Lone Stars. Dallas agreed to supply the remaining\n6 or 8 players to the Moncton franchise. Thus keeping the Hawks\nin the New Brunswick city.\n\nThe deal is for one year and will be extended to three years if\nthe season ticket base increases to over 3000. The Hawks only sold\n1400 for this year.\n\nSAINT JOHN FLAMES OFFICIAL\nThe Calgary Flames have officially signed a deal with the city of\nSaint John, NB. The Saint John Blue Flames will play in the 6200\nExhibition Center. The Flames still have to apply for an expansion\nfrnachise from the AHL but are expected to have no trouble.\n\nCAPS FOLLOW JACKS TO MAINE\nDespite rumors to the contrary, the Capitals will follow the Baltimore\nSkipjacks to Maine. The Caps' current farm team, the Baltimore Skipjacks,\nannounced that they would move to Maine and become the Portland Pirates.\nThere was much doubt as to if the Caps would follow but they announced\na limited deal with Portland. They would supply a dozen or so players\nincluding 2 goalies. They become the third team to announce a limited\nfarm team along with Moncton and the Capital District Islanders.", "\n\n\tThe defenition of the Underdog is a team that has no talent and comes\nout of nowhere to contend. The '69 Mets and '89 Orioles are prime examples,\nnot the Cubs. I root for the Cubs, because I feel sorry for them, but \nbasically they are dogs. The Pirates today are a great example of an underdog.\nIf the Rockies and Marlins compete, they will be underdogs. The North Stars\ntrip to the Stanley Cup finals was a good example of an underdog's journey. \nThe Cubs have a good team this year, and play in a weak division, they are much\nless than America's Team.\n\n", "\nThat would be a V4 ticket, presumably, not a V5 ticket. The V4 ticket\nformat can even be complicated several more orders of magnitude...", "I'm pretty sure that Sandberg has done this at least once. (I know someone\nwill correct me if I'm wrong.) \n\nRBIs and Runs scored are the two most important offensive statistics. You\ncan talk about OBP and SLG% all you want, but the fact remains:\n\n\tThe team that scores more runs wins the game!\n\t---------------------------------------------\n\nFlame Away\n\n-- John Bratt\n\n", "\n\n\n\nWhoa. What you are effectively doing is implying that if a player plays\nreally well, he 'stores up' mistakes that can be used at a later time. Ths\nis not so. Roy is the 'villain', as you so succinctly put it, because he\nallowed a very cheap goal. If you think Roy outplayed Hextall, perhaps you\nshould get a tape of the game and watch the first 7-8 minutes of the third\nperiod. NHL goaltenders _make_ some great saves. If they did not, they\nwould not be in the NHL in the first place. I do not expect any particular\ngoalie to be able to make the great saves all of the time, even though they\nare occasionally required. However, when it comes to a routine shot like\nSakic's, especially at such a crucial time in a game, I don't think there \nare any legitimate excuses. \n\n\nI am not arguing that Hextall was brilliant. I am arguing is that a\nrelatively weak wrist shot from the outside of the circle shold not result \nin a goal. \n\n\nIn a one-goal game with less than a minute to go there is no such thing as\n'just the 1 goal'. I have not defended Dionne for taking the penalty\neither...in fact I think it was a boneheaded move. But it led to _one_ goal\nonly, and Montreal had a _two_ goal lead. My main concern is the second \ngoal.\n\n\nWhat you say about the skaters is absolutely true. But realize that the \ngame was effectively *won*. You could watch any hockey game (in fact, you\ncould watch any sporting event period) and spend hours discussing the 'what\nif's' w.r.t. missed opportunities. They are not important when the final\nresult is decided. If I get the time soon, I'll watch the game again and\nemail you a list of lucky Montreal bounces and a list of Quebec offensive\nscrewups. Montreal was _leading_ with a minute to go. The goalie\nis the last line of defence, and I will grant that extra attention is\nfocussed on him, sometimes without justification. But Roy gave up a *lousy*\ngoal, and a team cannot afford such a goal.\n\n\n\nWHO CARES? Of what value is it to justify one lousy play with a totally\nunrelated lousy play? I could do a Hextall critique if you'd like. But if\nyou're going to assess his performance, keep in mind that he made the key\nsaves at the key times.\n\n\nFor the record, I did not say that Roy was not one of the top goaltenders in\nthe league. In fact, I agree that he is.\n\n \nI assume you are referring to me. However, I have pointed out that I think\nthe loss can be blamed on Roy. I have not said he sucks, nor do I think I've\nmade any other 'derogatory comments'. If you regard objective\n(and informed, FYI) observations as derogatory, I really can't help you. \n", "\nNot really, though I wouldn't personally say \"the most deserving\ncandidate wins\". Rarely does a player win ROY when called up in mid\nseason, and there have been several duds in recent years. But this is\nmore a factor of mediot biases than anything else. (I wonder. If\nAmaral hits like he is capable of, will he receive ROTY votes? He's\nonly 31, he could have a long career ahead of him! :-)\n\n\nI think they are a second-division team. They should finish ahead of\nthe Royals, Mariners, and *possibly* Athletics. But I don't think\nthey'll be above .500. (I think the East is stronger this year.)\n\nLast year their pitching was bad and their offense was horrible. This\nyear their offense is better, but their pitching is still pretty bad.\nEven if Finley returns to form, he won't replace what they lost in\nAbbott. Sanderson? Farrell? I don't believe it.\n\nAnd while their BA may be good, and they have decent speed, their\noffense lacks punch. They don't have any bona fide power hitters.\n(Salmon, Snow, Davis, and Curtis? None with more than 20 HR\npotential.)\n\nCheers,\n-Valentine", "\n\nHey! What's this? We agree!\n\nNo platoon advantage (Sabo vs. Samuel).\n\nBoth players have a reputation of being excellent fastball hitters,\n\tand both have a reputation of being fooled too often with\n\tslow curves and change ups.\n\nSabo has more power, and a little bit of a better batting eye. Samuel\n\tis noted as an agressive free-swinger. Sabo has more homerun power.\n\nBoth players started the game hitting below .200. \n\nThere may have been some game considerations that might have prompted\n\tPerez to want to reserve Samuel for use later. But the game\n\t*was* on the line, and Samuel never did get in.\n\nGiven all of this, I don't see a lot to suggest pinch-hitting, nor do\nI see anything to suggest no pinch-hitting. There is, of course, the\nclutch-hitting information. But if that's useless...\n\nThen again. If it's not...\n\n\n\n", "\nNot only have I not heard of the Western Business School, or the University\nof Western Ontario, I've never even wondered if there WAS a western\nOntario. And judging by the quality of the posts coming from there, I'm\nstill not sure that the place exists.\n\nPerhaps I should be impressed, though, since it appears that grade school\nchildren in that area have access to the Internet.", "Does anybody know the details of the Shriners All-Star game that featured the\nbest seniors in college hockey in a game in Orono, Maine? If you do, please\nreply.\n", "\tAh, so now we're into European player bashing? What next? \nNo more French Canadiens? Yeah, there's an idea! Let them French-\nspeaking Canadiens have their own hockey league! We don't want them!\n\tAre you _CRAZY_? The NHL is one of the true international\nleagues, and yes, there _ARE_ many Europeans who deserve to play in\nthe NHL and are better than some North Americans, look at Teemu!!!\nI, for one, am glad to see Europeans in the NHL and I hope the\nNHL soon expands to Europe. Its nice to see all these different\npeople come together to form the (soon to be) 26 hockey teams.\n\t\n\nDarryl Brooks University at Buffalo\n __ ______ ///\n | | / \\ \\ \\ / / / _____ / / ////\n | | / /\\ \\ \\ \\___/ / ( \\ ---/-/--- ///\n | | / /__\\ \\ \\ / \\ \\ ---/-/--- ///\n \\______/ / / \\ \\ | | ______/ ///////", "\nOf course you can. You just have to be careful about what conclusions\nyou draw.\n\n\nHuh? The 20's and 30's were the *worst* decades for great pitching. Grove,\nVance, Dean, and not a whole lot else. \n\nAs for the best all-around hitters, stat-wise, Ruth, Gehrig, Foxx, Greenberg,\nHornsby, Cobb, etc. all played before the 40's. Stat-wise, the 60's were \na graveyard for hitters.\n\n\nHow do you know? Which ones do you consider great?\n\n\nSo? Sheffield also has better shoes. More time between pitches. You can\nrun the comparison, but there are *lots* of things to take into account.\n\n\nWell, can we compare them or can't we?\n\n\nWhy? We can compare players to the *standard* of their era; and we can\nkeep in mind era-to-era differences without throwing up our hands in\ndespair.\n\n\nYou haven't shown us what's *un*reasonable about the MAntle-Sheffield\ncomparison that you yourself did.", "Subject line says it all. Thanks in advance. Please email\nchuck@cygnus.eid.anl.gov\nGo Cubs!\n", "\nAnd thus, we come to one of the true beauties of baseball; these things, along\nwith many others will never be separated. Almost *everything* in baseball is\nsituational and interdependent. This is what allows us to carry on all the\narguments that we have. If everything could be explained and balanced on a\nstatistical basis, none of the wonder and mystery would be left. Why we might\nhave to resort to just going out the ballyard and enjoy the game itself.\n\n--->Paul, feeling a little anti-stathead today\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n We will stretch no farm animal beyond its natural length\n\n paula@koufax.cv.hp.com Paul Andresen Hewlett-Packard (503)-750-3511", "Also sprach slegge@kean.ucs.mun.ca ...\n\n\nTwo things:\n\n1. Didn't the trade deadline pass two weeks ago?\n\n2. The FLYERS would never ever EVER give up Lindros, simple as that.\n\nGo Flyers, Cup in '94...\n\nMike", "I was wondering if anyone had any kind of Fenway Park gif.\nI would appreciate it if someone could send me one.\nThanks in advance.", "MIGHTY ONES GET MIGHTIER:\n\nTPS, the Finnish Champions 1992/3, are getting still stronger!\n\nI just heard some news, according to which TPS has acquired\nthe next Finnish hockey superstar(??) Jere Lehtinen from Kiekko-Espoo!\n\nThere are also some rumours about Erik Kakko (Reipas) and Marko Jantunen\n(KalPa) being traded to TPS. Both of this players are currently on the\nFinnish olympic team. I think that Jantunen is drafted to the NHL, too.\n\nBTW. Is Juha Yl|nen (centre, HPK) drafted by the Jets?? During last year\nhe has reached the top level among Finnish centres. He had very good\nplayoff games against TPS!\n\n Hannu", "On 20-Apr-93 in Don Cherry - Coach's Corner..\n\nThis clip was shown on local news in Pittsburgh last night (KDKA), complete\nwith animated sarcasm by the sportscaster. It's the second time Cherry\nhas been shown on local Pittsburgh news in the last couple of weeks. Both\ntimes he was blasting Lemieux.\n\n\n====================================================================\n Jim Murawski\n Sr. Software Engineer (412) 268-2650 [office]\n Administrative Computing and (412) 268-6868 [fax]\n Information Services jjm+@andrew.cmu.edu\n Carnegie Mellon University Office: UCC 155\n 4910 Forbes Avenue\n Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890\n\n \"Le Mieux! Le Magnifique! Soixante Six! Claude...NON!\"", "\nThat's rich... Ozzie Smith a defensive liability...", "John Girash writes...\n\nYou can get WJR a LONG way away. The problem is that, because of those\nwell known and beloved \"contractual obligations\", WJR will be doing\nTiger baseball instead of the Wings playoff games for probably half\nthe games the Wings could play. For this series, I know tonight's\ngame and I believe games 5 and 6 (if necessay) will be bumped.\n\nRon", "I stopped going to A's games some years ago while I still lived inthe\nBay Area for exactly this reason. I believe the length of their games\nhas been institutionalized by LaRussa/Duncan. They encourage their\npitchers to be overly deliberate, to throw to first often, to study\nthe catchers' signals, and so on. And almost every A's hitter takes\na step out of the box after every pitch. This is not, imo, a coincidence.\nThis is planned. And I hate it.\n\nAs for the Gant situation, I did not see the game or the replays. But\nI do wonder. What if Gant had requested a time out? Would Hirschbeck\nhave been required to give it to him? Could he have denied the requst?\nFor all he (the ump) knew, Gant could have had dirt in his eye.\n\n\n\n", "-=> Quoting Ohandley@betsy.gsfc.nasa. to All <=-\n\n Oh> From: ohandley@betsy.gsfc.nasa.gov\n Oh> Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey\n Oh> Subject: Test...Please ignore\n Oh> Message-ID: <1993Apr21.180741@betsy.gsfc.nasa.gov>\n Oh> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1993 22:07:41 GMT\n Oh> Reply-To: ohandley@betsy.gsfc.nasa.gov\n\n Oh> This is a test.....Please ignore.\n\n\n Oh> =======================================================================\n Oh> ========\n Oh> =======================================================================\n Oh> ========\n\n\n OK I will ignore this message\n since it is only a test.\n wow, Montreal just scored to go up\n 1 - 0 in game 4 of their series, oh sorry\n I was supposed to ignore this message wasn't I\n\n\n bye for now.\n\n\n Steve\n\n\n", "\nSez Dave Kingman when he used to take off for Rosh Hashanna and Yom\nKippur on days they coincided with the season.", "\n\nAccording to the recent TSN report Peter Puck is not paying any interest\non the Treasury Branch loans. That's a lot of green.\n\n\nAgain, according to TSN, virtually everything that Peter Puck has already \nhas liens against it. Of course we can't really be sure of this. \n\n\nThe Oiler rationale regarding the renegotiation of player contracts is\nthat a deal is a deal. Sather has spouted this repeatedly. Pocklinton\nhas a contract with Northlands until 1999. A deal is a deal. Perhaps\nif he included the income he has received from his sale of assets (players\nsuch as Gretzky) and the income he has received in expansion fees with\nhis revenues he wouldn't be losing money. He has admitted pulling this\nmoney out of the Oiler franchise to put into his other businesses. \n\n\nI think that Pocklington has received ample provincial subsidization. \nI can't really blame him for going after municipal subsidization but \nhe is certainly not entitled to it. Pocklington has \"sucked\" revenue\nout of the Oilers in order to prop up his failing business interests.\nPocklington is not to be trusted. I doubt very much that any Oiler\nteam will ever again make the playoffs under Pocklington's stewardship.\nAs soon as a player shows himself to be a competent NHL'er and expects\nto be paid accordingly he is shipped off for younger players and or\ndraft picks.\n\n\n-- ", "Just a side note, squid/octopi made their way to the ice in Buffalo.\nI still don't understand why Buffalo, but maybe it's lucky. :-) btw,\nthey shovel them up from the ice here, using the shovel used to scoop\nup the snow the zamboni leaves as it leaves the ice. Although Blue\ndid give some technical directions on its removal, motioning with his\nstick. \n\n\n", "What's with John Franco? The Mets are hardly using him. I heard he was\ncompletely recovered, but now I'm not so sure.\n\nIf there is anybody out there with information about Franco, I would\nappreciate it if you could drop me a line.\n\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\nWas it just me, or did it look like Hirschbeck pointed to\nthe 3B umpire before calling that strike? I thought that's\nwhy Gant was asking for the appeal to the 1st base umpire;\nhe thought Hirschbeck had gotten checked-swing help from the wrong\numpire.\n\n\nAfter Hirschbeck called for the pitch, but before the pitch was thrown,\nCox came onto the field. It was obvious that he was trying to get time\ncalled before the pitch, but no one was watching.\n\n\n\n\nYour listing pretty much agreed with what I saw, with the aforementioned\naddendums. Perhaps it appeared differently at the ballpark. Personally,\nI was amazed that Gant didn't get ejected. But that's why Cox did;\nit's called protecting your players.\n\nAnd to those people who would have thrown everyone out of the game,\nall I can say is that you'd be making baseball history. Even in\nthe worst baseball brawls, usually only the major instigators are\nejected, not everyone who comes onto the field. And I'd have to \nsay that those brawls are considerably more threatening to the game\n than what the Braves did Fri. night.\n\nAnyhow, that's my last two cents on the subject, barring\noutrageous postings. I will try to keep my eyes open\nfor more incidents involving Hirschbeck. I think there will\nbe some with other teams as well. I hope not.", " \n \n Well, I'm a Wings fan and I think the FIRST thing that you should do is to\nget the opponent's line combinations correct before you try to match up anyone\nwith them. There is no Yzerman-Fedorov-Probert line, except for maybe on a\npowerplay. These three players usually play on three different lines.\nWhich would mean that Toronto's checking line would have to pull a triple\nshift.\nThe Wings' lines usually look like this:\n \n Gallant-Yzerman-Ciccarelli\n \n Kozlov-Fedorov-Drake\n \n Kennedy-Burr-Probert\n \n Ysebaert-Primeau-Sheppard\n \nOh by the way: Start praying! : )", "\nI agree that Keenan is an excellent choice. Did you see Mike\nLupica's column in Sunday's news? My sentiments exactly. I\nthink he just may be the one to instill some hunger and fire\ninto their hearts next season. Either that or he's going to \nbe kicking alot of butt!\n\n\nI'm here, but am new to this group and have been keeping fairly\nquiet (you know, doing the \"lurking\" thing). I don't have a\nsense how many Rangers fans there are on the list either. I \nam a die-hard Ranger fan (I guess I have to be - I sat in the\nGarden throughout the Penguins' - led by Mario's 5 goals - decimation \nof them on 4/9), but am sick at the abundance of talent that has\nbeen totally untapped, and the lack of heart displayed this\nseason.\n\n\nHurlbut was injured for quite a while. I'm not sure, but I\nthink he may have recovered in time for the playoff run, and\nif so, like you, question why he wasn't used.\n\n\nI believe Kocur was used, in many instances, for his intimidation \nfactor. Granted, he seemed to get an awful lot of ice time for \nthat reason alone, but you have to realize that when a team is\nnot doing any REAL physical intimidation (I'd like to have a nickel \nfor every time J.D. said 'They've got to take the body more'), \nyou've got to at least have some illusions ;-(\n\n\nI agree and I don't know.\n\n\nSorry, I don't agree with you here. I think Joey C. did a good\njob filling in when he was asked to. I can't imagine that it's\neasy going from near 0 ice time to being a full timer. I don't\nseem to remember him turning the puck over at the blue line too\nmuch, or failing to clear the zone. He worked hard, and at\nleast didn't make any rookie mistakes. As he said himself in an\ninterview, he can only give what he has. and he did. \n\n\nAbsolutely. I think attendance at the Garden was better on the\nlast day of the season, than any average night for the\nIslanders.\n\n\nThe man is awesome. In a way, I'm enjoying the playoffs more,\nnow that the Rangers aren't in them. I can really appreciate\nall the glory Mario is getting without 'hating' him because he's\non the opposing team. He deserves it all, as far as I'm\nconcerned.\n\n\t\t- Mary", "\nI am hoping to produce the first update of the BB DDD this week;\nplease send info about the most significant (longest, most critical,\netc.) home run that you have seen yet this season.", "\n2 simple reasons:\n\n(1) Batting Williams ahead of Bonds will create a Left(Clark), \n Right(Williams), Left(Bonds) situation in the middle of the\n batting order. This makes it tougher for opposing manager\n to change pitchers.\n\n(2) Having Bonds batting behind Williams means that Matt will get\n more good pitches to hit. This is important since he struggles\n so much with breaking balls. Opposing pitchers don't want to\n walk Williams to get to Bonds.\n", "The Babe and The Pride of the Yankees offer very different renditions of\nthe sotry about Ruth and Gherig hitting home runs for the boy in the\nhospital. Can some historian out there explain \"history's\" version of the\nstory. \n\nI wouldn't put is past either (or both) of the movies to season the truth\nwith a little extra spice.\n\nAny other comments as to inaccuracies in these two movies?\n\n\n\n------------------------------\n\nEric A. W. Behrens\nbehrens@cc.swarthmore.edu\n\n\n\"I'd walk through hell in a gasoline suit to keep playing baseball.\" ", "\n\nI didn't see any smilies in this message so.......\n\n W T L PTs\n Team A 50 30 4 104\n Team B 52 32 0 104\n\n\nThere you go. Two teams that tie in points without identical records.\n\n", "OK, I'm sure that this has been asked 100's of times before, but I\nhave wondered since I heard it... Where the hell did the nickname\nof the \"Habs\" come from for the Montreal Canadiens?", "\n\n\n on\n\nHow many players of international class an average NHL team has. 6-10?\nTop players just play more in smaller rinks. Is the quality of European hockey\nreally poor, then recent years only few north-american (usually good farm \nplayers) players have got place in Finnish league or Elitserien, while most \nhave been shipped back. ", "%>I dunno, Lemieux? Hmmm...sounds like he\n%>has *French* blood in him!!! Hey! France is part of Europe! Send that\n%>Euro-blooded boy back!!!\n%\n% Don't you Americans study history...the French settled in North America\n% as early or before the British...Lemieux can probably trace back his\n% North American heritage back a lot further than most of us.\n\n\n\n\nDon't you Canadians understand sarcasm? Sometimes the reader must\ndecide that what he's reading is so ludicrous that it must mean\nthe opposite of what it said...\n\nKinda like the \"Toronto's going to win the Cup\" posts. Yeah. Right.\nAnd cows can fly...\n\n\n\nGeez, Gerald. Like anyone reading rec.flamefest.hockey.pens.are.great\ndidn't know that Le-Mow was from Quebec.", "Okay, here's the entry sheet. Keep in mind that not all spots are\ndecided, so it may change.\n\n Series \t\t\tYour Pick\t\tGames\n\n Division Semis\n\nNY Islanders-Pittsburgh\nNew Jersey-Washington\n\nBuffalo-Boston\nMontreal-Quebec\n\nSt. Louis-Chicago\nToronto-Detroit\n\nWinnipeg-Vancouver\nLos Angeles-Calgary\n\n Division Finals\n\nPatrick\nAdams\nNorris\nSmythe\n\n Conference Finals\n\nWales\nCampbell\n\n\nStanley Cup winner\n\n\nSee previous post for scoring. Good luck!\n\n--\n Keith Keller\t\t\t\tLET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!\n\t\t\t\t\t\tLET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!\n\tkkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu\t\tIVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!", "\nand guess which game ESPN is showing in my area on Thursday - yep,\nPens-Devils. There are so many other interesting series, who cares\nabout Mario???", "Well, we're almost halfway through the first round, and so far things are\ngood in general:\n\n 1. The 2 teams that I hate most: Chicago and \"Basten\" are down 3 zip.\n (even though there is a possibility either can still win their\n series, yet this ego-thrashing and arrogance-smashing by the\n underdogs (St. Louis and Buffalo) is so rewarding).\n 2. Montreal is at this stage in a team's life where they are not good\n enough to go all the way, yet too good to be able to get some\n (really) good draft picks... :-(\n 3. Is it just me, or does anyone out there also think that this year\n the cup final should be played between 2 teams from the WALES?\n 4. Is it just because they're playing Montreal that I find the diques\n arrogant ***'s, or are they really?\n 5. Smythe-what???? I'm really getting sick of seeing Douggie and Wendel\n night in and night out... We should see some Canucks/Jets/Flames\n action...!\n 6. Don Cherry is an ******* alright, but hey... so are our politicians...\n \nObLeafsJoke: Q. what do you get when you cross a maple leaf and a \n groundhog?\n A. Six more weeks of crummy hockey!\n------------------------------------------------------------------\nL8R, dudes...\nGO HABS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!\n\n-- \n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\nJon Shaib ac291@carleton.freenet.ca", "\nTom Prince is a 28 year old no-hit catcher. Think of him as a young Dann\nBilardello. I can't begin to fathom why the Pirates have been so afraid of\nlosing this guy, who's been in AAA most of the last 5 seasons. The Pirates\nreleased Kirk Gibson last year because Prince was out of options, then\neventually sent Prince down anyway, and he cleared waivers without a peep.\nHe's another year older, and still can't hit; why do they think he wouldn't\nclear waivers now? Why would they care?", "I just wanted to let everyone know that I have lost what little respect I have\nfor Jim LeFebvre after seeing today's Cubs game. First of all how could he\nstart Maldonado over May. After the way May played at the end of last year and\nthe way he tore up the Cactus League how could you let him sit the bench? Not\nto mention that a right hander (Maddux) started. I really blew my top when\nLefebvre pinch hit for Rick Wilkins with TOMMY SHIELDS! How can you do that\njust because of the lefty-righty thing, too much is made of that. Wilkins is\ntwice the hitter that Shields is. Then the next batter was Jose Vizcaino, one\nof the weakest hitters I have ever seen, and who had looked terrible at bat all\nday, and Lefebre let him hit, while May still sat the bench. I think even Arnie\nHarris was stunned by this because he showed May sitting in the dugout while\nVizcaino was batting. Face it Lefebvre has got to be the worst manager in\nbaseball.\n\t\t\t\t\t\tA dishard Cub fan\n", "Showing a meaningless (relatively) baseball game over the overtime of\ngame that was tied up with less than 3 seconds left on the clock?\nGimme a break! Where does ESPN get these BRILLIANT decisions from?", "I am fortunate enough to have tickets for an Orioles-Red Sox game in \nBaltimore on Saturday, July 31st. I haven't been to the new park,\nand I was wondering if anyone out there can give me pointers or good tips \nor anything helpful about the place so that I can enjoy every moment spent\nthere.\nFor instance, what time do the gates open? Do we see the Orioles take BP?\nWhen will the Red Sox take BP? Anything you can tell me would be \nappreciated. Thank you in advance. \nPlease respond to my e-mail address.\nI know it's still three-and-a-half months away, but I'm psyched!\n", "This is not a trend. The Caps were done. Goneso in five games, and it saves\nus Caps fans a lot of pain.\n\nI mean, it would be more painful if the Caps were up 3-1, watching them \ntumbled when they need ONE MORE WIN to clinch the series. How many times\nhave they done that in their history?\n\n1985 up 2-0 in a five game series against the Isles, lost 3 straight\n1987 up 3-1 against the Isles, lost 3 straight\n1992 up 3-1 against the Pens, lost 3 straight\n\nIn other words, when they were about to clinch with 3 games to go, they \nwere a pitiful 2-9, the lone wins being \n\n1) a sweep of Philly in 1984\n2) the 1990 win against the Rangers in the Patrick finals, the ONLY TIME \nthey managed to get out of the division.\n\nActually, Saturday's blown lead wasn't anything new. We all know the Caps\nare famous lead blowers in crucial playoff games. Examples:\n\n1) game 4 against the Isles, 1985, led 4-2 after two, lead series 2-1,\ngave up 4 goals in the 3rd period, including the game winning goal in the\nlast minute. After that goal, Bobby Carpenter botched a penalty shot.\nSeries tied 2-2, lost game 5 a few days later.\n\n2) game 4 against the Rangers, 1986, led series 2-1, led by 2 in the 3rd \nperiod, blew it. Lost game in OT and three consecutive games.\n\n3) game 6 against Pittsurgh, 1992, led series 3-2, led by 2 in 2nd period.\nBlew it and the series.\n\n4) game 3 against Isles, 1993, series tied 1-1, led by 2 after 2. Blew it.\n\n5) game 4 against Isles, 1993, trailed series 2-1, led by 3 in 2nd period.\nBlew it again.\n\nWhen they were leading by 3 in game 4, I said to myself: \"if they blew this\nlead, the series is OVER\". They have lost all the momemtum. The Islanders\nbelieve they can come back no matter what the score is.\n\nI am still waiting for a Cap goalie who can carry the team, who can \ncompletely shut down the opposition when they are hanging on their dear \nlives in a crucial game.\n\nWell, some teams such have it and some teams just don't. When the Caps\nwere frustrated year in year out by the Islanders, I was thinking \"wait\nuntil Potvin/Bossy/Trottier/Smith retire\". Well, they retired (even though\nTrottier was still able to haunt the Caps on a Pens uniform), yet another\ngeneration of Islanders were still doing the same thing. Well, I guess \nit has nothing to do with the players.\n", "I'd have to say the most impressive HRs I've ever see came from Dave Kingman\nand his infamous moon-raker drives...", "\nHe's a Canadian \"thing\". Former coach of the Boston Bruins and Colorado\nRockies. From the summaries that get posted I gather that his ongoing beef\nthis year has been the conventional wisdom that Canadian hockey is doomed\nto be second or third rate behind the perceived emergence of the U.S.\nand European programs.\n\n\nAfter he left the Rockies, he got a job with CBC's Hockey Night in Canada\nand hasn't looked back since. Actually, he did work for CBC at least\non playoff season after the Rockies were eliminated.\n\n\nI'd say it's a combination of flame bait and serious journalism. The closest\nthing you'll find to Cherry in the U.S. is Stan Fischler, a self-described\nhockey maven. The similarities are that they both say things that get\npeople upset. The difference is that Cherry knows the game and Fischler\ndoesn't.\n\n\nDon's a character. If he were completely rational and noncontroversial\nhe wouldn't have a job. By some definitions, he could be called an ass.\nBut then some people feel the same about Mike Lang, another character that\nI wish would get wider exposure (only one national telecast last year).", "\nI *loved* Dan Kelly! He was on USA when I first got hooked on Hockey back\nin 1980 or so. No, he wasn't always spot on top of the play, and he\nwasn't overly cute, but those pipes! That lusty, barrel chested, voice!\nNo pipsqueak was he (unlike some fellas we know!)\n\nI rode into hockey mania on the coattails of Gretzky and the Boys on the\nBus. My first Finals saw the Islanders sweep them. But I'll never\nforget the night, a year later, when the Oilers closed it out at home in\nthe pandemonium, the smoke from a million sparklers, the long empty-net\ngoal near the end, and Dan Kelly letting the crowd's reaction tell the\nstory for a few long seconds, then that voice barking through the din\n\"Dave Lumley ... sews it up for Edmonton!\" It sounds stupid, but that\nearly (for me) hockey memory will always bring a thrill. Since then\nI've grown a lot more jaded about the game, but I was really saddened\nby Dan Kelly's passing. He was one of the good guys.", "\n\t[stuff about Ron Gant incident deleted] \n\n\tI agree that Hirschbeck was just doing what he was instructed to do\nand also that Gant should have listened to him. However, what is with this\npolicy of trying to speed up the games. You are the first person \n( non-mediot ) I have seen endorse this policy. I have no problem with the\nlength of games at all and am tired of the ESPN crowd ( and other announcers )\nbitching about it. I have never been in a ballpark filled with people looking\nat their watches and shouting \"Hurry up!\" If I cough up big bucks for a \nticket, I don't mind a game that last more than 2:10. I really don't\nunderstand it. \n\n\tGames are longer now for several reasons: more pitching changes,\nmore basestealing ( and throws to first ), etc...I think a very small factor\nis the increased time it takes Jose Canseco/ Deion Sanders/ [insert fancy\nshowboat ballplayer here] to arrange their jewelry prior to stepping in the\nbatter's box. My impression is that sportcasters and writers have made this\nan issue because they like shorter games - they get to head back to hotel\nbar, eat steaks, get drunk, tell stupid jokes with their pals and chase\nstewardesses around the bar. Sure they want the game over with. Print \njournalists have a slightly more legitimate reason for wanting faster games:\nthey have deadlines. The ESPN guys on baseball tonight drive me crazy - they\nconstantly harp on this - primarily because they often have to work late \nwhen the game goes longer than 2:30.\n\n\tMaybe I am just a ne'er-do-well with nothing better to do, but I \nwould like to hear reasons why the longer games upset you.\n\n\tAs a parenthetical note, it seems the league is in any case fighting\na losing battle this year. The increased offense thus far will certainly \nspoil any hopes of getting the games over with more quickly.", "Hi guys....\n\nWhat happened?\n\t1. Potvin didn't let six goals by.\n\t2. Wendel and Andreychuk woke up.\n\t3. Home ice and LOTS of yelling in the Gardens gave the Leafs\n\t\tthe emotional edge.\n\t4. Refs calls (especially last night) tended to favour Leafs.\n\n\tA couple of comments:\n\n\t1. On Gilmour: Just because the guy isn't one of the three\n\tstars doesn't mean he was not leading the team. Someone posted\n\tthe playoff point total and he's in something like fifth or sixth\n\tplace....plus, he walked away with the Molson cup (given for\n\taccumulating points from the three star selection) during the\n\tregular season.\n\n\t2. On the officiating: I've heard gripes from both ends on this\n\tone. Emotions are very high in this series; the rivalry is\n\tone of the stronger ones I know of. I do have to agree that the\n\tofficiating last night was pro-Leaf in general (except for whoever\n\tmissed that slash on Gilmour's hand).\n\n\t3. In general: I STILL think Detroit has one of the better\n\tchances vs. Pittsburgh (though I think the Leafs would do better\n\tagainst the Blues....but not as well if they made it out of the\n\tdivision). Problem is, I like both these teams, though I'm\n\tsupporting the Leafs on the underdog principle. D\n\n\tBy the way...Gilmour tiring out is a lot like Bob Probert not\n\t\tplaying aggressive hockey....\n\tBy the way....I'm not any sort of expert, nor do I claim to be.\n\t\tI just like watching a good matchup.\n", "\nPierre Turgeon of the Islanders", " \n \nSorry, but I saw a survey somewhere that showed that America's favorite\nteam is the Damn Yankees. So much for the underdogs being loved.", "\n\n\n Depends on what you mean by classy. From what I've heard about\nhim, he was about as classy as Harold Ballard. Only difference was\nthat back then almost all the owners were like that, so he seemed okay\nby comparison. Read the book \"Net Worth\" for one view of what Smythe\n(and Norris and Adams and Campbell) were like. \n\n\n\n Even more specifically, I think what Roger was saying (and I said\nit previously too) is that these are NOT the people who made the\nleague great, so why should divisions, conferences etc. be named after\nthem instead of Morenz, Vezina, Howe, Orr etc., the people who DID\nmake it great. Instead, the NHL has chosen to immortalize the men who\ngot rich off of the men who made the game great. \n", "The original poster wanted to know how the Big Cat looked. I was also at\nthe Saturday game in Montreal (Apr 17) that Rockies won 9-1. I haven't\npaid much attention to Gallarraga since he left the Expos but his stance\nseemed to be MUCH different. He stands more erect and very open, with his\nleft foot pointing to 3rd base. I'm wondering if this is a recent change\nin stance for him? Andres had one glaring weakness as a hitter. He could\nalways be fooled by a curve ball low and away. If this is indeed a new\nstance for him, maybe he is not being fooled as easily? As for his patience,\n\nDennis Martinez definitely did not have his good stuff. If he was grooving\npitches to Andres, you can hardly fault him for drilling them (which he did!).\nDoes Andres generally start hot or cold? Does it take until May for most\npitchers to have confidence in that curve ball low and away?", "Here we go again. Is this the same idiot who posted the Gretzky\ntrade to Toronto???? Sheeeesh! You should have waited until we got\nover that one before this garbage, maybe we would have believed it for\nhalf a second (NOT!).\n\n By the way, I just heard from Mother Goose that Mario Lemieux was\ntraded to Winnpeg for Tie Domi!!!!!\n", "\nSounds like Darryl being Darryl, Tommy spending too much time on\nSlim Fast and needs a pasta fix, and the media being their usual\n\"charming\" selves. Sounds like a New York-like story to me!! :-)\n\nI saw the replay and am wondering what the big deal is? I didn't\nrealize the folks in LA were making a big to do about it. I think\nStawberry, Lasorda and the various media types should sit and watch\nthe replay then apologize to the fan.\n\n\nDarryl has not gotten off to a good start, he has to blame someone.\n\n\nAs long as the fan doesn't interfere with the play I see no problems.", "\nNo, Boston probably won't go down easy, but if the Sabres hadn't won\ngame one Buffalo would have been out in four.\n\nAnd what problem are you having with playoff games here in\nBuffalo???!!!??? There's the Sabres-Bruins, Quebec-Montreal, and\nwhatever ESPN and ABC show, and on opposite nights there's\nToronto-Detroit and whatever ESPN(/ABC) shows. More hockey than a\ngood chunk of North America, either side of the border. It's\nwonderful, and there are thousands of folks who'd kill to be in your\nshoes, coverage-wise.\n\n\n\n", "\n\n\nActually this stuff from Mogilny doesn't surprise me all that much. About 4\nor 5 weeks ago I read in the Toronto Sun a quote from Alex; it went something\nlike [sarcastically]:\n\n\"Yep, Patty's the man. He's responsible for the team's success...I'm a \nnobody around here.\"\n\nI was going to post it at the time...I must have forgot since nobody else \nwas talking about him being a problem.\n\n\nYep, I'd beat the shit out of him too. LaFontaine really must be a team\nplayer...makes you wonder what the Islander management was thinking.\nMy question is what the hell is Muckler doing? Whether he wishes to admit it\nor not, the team is his to coach, and if he can't do the job then maybe the\njob should be given to somebody who can. \n\nGee, kinda like Alex's spot on the team, isn't it?", "Has anyone heard anything about Mel Hall this season? I'd heard he wasn't\nwith the Yankees any more. What happened to him?\n\n\t\t\t\tDoug Dolven", "What about including points? Probably no goals (at least against\nopponents) but there have been several assists given.\n", "\n\nThat's a good way to put it. It's a quiet confidence. I don't feel like\nI have to defend this team anymore. \n\nThe Devils are a puzzle to me. They have long been one of the few teams\nI always dreaded playing. Their D isn't quite what it used to be but they\nstill usually play us pretty tough. I just can't figure it out. At least\nlast night they mounted an attack.\n\n\nBernie Nichols was interviewed after Game 2 on the late news. He was\nshaking his head in disbelief over Barrasso, saying that Tommy is like\nanother defenseman out there and how difficult it is playing against him.\nThen he got this far-away look on his face, his voice started trailing\noff and he said, \"It just isn't right...it just isn't fair...\" and he\ntried to muster a smile.\n\n\nAs far as coaching goes, a Pens/Islanders match-up should be pretty good.\n\nOne guy I feel sorry for in all of this so far is Chris Terreri. I'm sure\nTom Barrasso knows how he feels. For so long Tommy would look up and not\nhave a teammate in sight. Terreri's teammates really left him out in the\ncold in the first two games.", "\n\n\n\n\n\nWell, my question still hasn't been answered: if Spanky was bad enough to\nrelease this year, why did he get so much playing time last year? Yes, I know\nhe was part of a platoon, and that's why he got more playing time than\nSlaught, but that doesn't answer the question. If Slaught was so obviously\nbetter this year, wasn't this also obvious last year, and shouldn't he\nhave been taking away some of Spanky's playing time against righties?", "I made a mistake on the posted article [been fighting food\npoisoning for last 24 hours...]\n\nThe second paragraph should state the following...\n\n\"Doctors cleared Sandberg to swing a padded bat at a ball\non a tee and to catch a ball in his gloved hand.\"\n\nSorry for the error, didn't know it until after posting.", "Does anyone have any information about the world hockey championships and\nspecifically about the US team? Game summaries and/or stats would be\ngreatly appreciated!! USA Today reported that the US beat the Czech\nRepublic, but that was the limit of the story.", "\nEven I noticed that Gant's demeanor was not one of a batter\nattempting to regain his concentration. Gant was stalking off.\nI wonder if Gant said something to the ump?\n\n\nActually, there was a small hand wave by Gant...as if to say\n'Don't bother me'. Gant may have said something here, too.\n\n\nCox was already halfway to the ump when the strike was called.\n\n\nMy impression was that Gant was not 'stepping out.' He was making\na protest about the lack of an appeal to first. As has been\npointed out earlier, there is no appeal to first on a strike.\nI can understand Gant feeling a little pressure in a two-out,\nRISP, 1 - 0 game, ninth inning. He let it get to him. The ump\nalso overreacted. Gant was stalking off, but I doubt he would\nhave been gone long. Hirschbeck should have let him have a\nmoment to compose himself before telling him to come bat.\nIMHO, umpires should be more flexible than what Hirschbeck\nshowed. Gant was disturbed to the point it was pretty likely\nhe would not get a hit.\n\nA very bad finish to a pretty good game.", "To make room for Harkey, the Cubs sent Shawn Boskie down to AAA.\n", "\nOh, come on. Everybody on the net has heard about \"plausible deniability\".\nYou're not fooling anybody.\n\n\nNote how quick Vince was to make the inference that my post claimed\nthat Mulroney was smiling at the baseballistics news. This sure looks\nlike guilty knowledge to me...\n\n ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^\nI.e., the $300 grand.\n\n\nThe early money has to be on \"Tom Tom\" Bolton, who contributed that\nclutch grandslam in his first appearance. But I expect lots of\nstrong contenders this year, many of them right here in San Diego.", "\nBefore I begin lambasting Don Cherry, let me first say that I've been sort of\na Cherry fan for a while...admittedly stuff he says has to be taken lightly,\nbut he's more-or-less harmless. On Saturday, however, he crossed the lines of\ngood taste:\n\n\nThis is the best he can do?!! Gee Don, tremendous amounts of professionalism\nhere. The CBC looks just as bad as he looks foolish letting him get away with\nthis nonsense...making fun of names?? It's bad enough that he makes asinine\nblanket statements about European players, but he's now resorted to making fun\nof their names too? He sounded like an idiot, much like he did last week\nwhen he said that Teemu would never make it to his 'Rock 'em, Sock 'em' video\nuntil he dropped the gloves...\n\n\nWell, what he _said_ was that even though he's been around the league for quite\nsome time, he still doesn't know who's where w.r.t. conference and division\nnames. HELLO??!! McFly?? The names have been around for a couple of decades\nor so....he also invited the audience to \"Name the teams in the Wales...quick,\nquick!\" Followed by \"Ah, you don't know, I don't know....\" \n\nSorry Don. Wrong on this one.\n\n\nThis was absolutely hilarious.\n\nDon's argument about the basketball and baseball brawls was fairly\ngood...unfortunately he neglected to mention the fines that were levelled in\nthe NBA case. Serious money...oh well, he's never been one for objectivity,\nhas he?\n\nDon's question to Gretzky:\n", "The Orioles' pitching staff again is having a fine exhibition season.\nFour shutouts, low team ERA, (Well, I haven't gotten any baseball news since\nMarch 14 but anyways) Could they contend, yes. Could they win it all? Maybe.\n\nBut for all those fans of teams with bad spring records, remember Earl\nWeaver's first law of baseball (From his book on managing)\n\nNo one gives a damn in July if you lost a game in March. :)\n\nBTW, anyone have any idea on the contenders for the O's fifth starter?\nIt's pretty much set that Sutcliffe, Mussina, McDonald and Rhodes are the\nfirst four in the rotation.", "\nWell, actually now that you mention it, a few weeks ago the CBC ran a\ndocumentary on \"Ice Hockey in Harlem\". the Canadian Club of New York\n(something like that) sponsors a league for kids in Harlem and based on\nthe TV report they all seemed to be having a lot of fun. All playing\nwith regular equipment, jerseys, etc etc, on a proper outdoor rink. It\nlooked just like kids playing hockey anywhere else.", "\nWell, since the Oilers didn't win a heck of a lot of games, I'm not sure\nthey deserve and MVP (\"can't win without him\"). However, I'd suggest Kelly\nBuchberger instead of Dave Manson, who has had a brutal year, his pick for\nthe All-Star game notwithstanding.\n\nAs for biggest surprise, I'd say that Buchberger had higher expectations\nthis year due to his \"breakthrough\" year (for him) last year, so he didn't\nreally raise his game. My suggestion would be Shjon Podein, one of the\ncallups from Cape Breton during the year. He was quite far down on the\ndepth chart in the Oilers stable of prospects, but made a big impact on\nthe team. He has 12 goals in his 33 games and is only -1. Those are decent\nnumbers for a third-line player who was seemingly doomed to minor-league\noblivion. The Oilers coaching staff likens his style to John Tonelli.\nI think he'll be on the full-time roster next year.\n\nAs for biggest disappointment, you could name any of the players the Oilers\ndumped for lousy production this year (Nicholls, Gilchrist, Tikkanen) or\neven Shayne Corson, but Mellanby isn't far off.\n\n-- \nAndrew Scott | andrew@idacom.hp.com\nHP IDACOM Telecom Division | (403) 462-0666 ext. 253", " Only if you are in the eastern time zone - pacific will get the \n Kings vs Calgary \n\n", "\nI'd be willing to make two wagers:\n1) Snow doesn't win ROY.\n2) Mattingly is out of baseball within five years.\n\nI'm skeptical of the first, because I don't think Snow is that good a\nplayer, and he is on a losing team.\n\nI'm skeptical of the second because of his back. Mattingly is 32 this\nyear, and how many players play until they are 40? Not too many, and\nmost of them didn't have chronic back problems when they were 32.\n\nCould be wrong on either or both, but I think that's the smart way to\nbet...", "Buffalo is up 2-0 is the series with Boston, and the reason....Grant Fuhr ?\n Fuhr is playoff hungry, and he's proving once again why they call him\n money goaltender. Fuhr might not be one of the best goaltenders in the\n league anymore (Statistically at least), but he's proving that he can\n make the big save at the right time.\n \n The Leafs should have kept Fuhr, and probably would have had a chance \n against powerhouse Detroit. But again.......where was Andreychoke in game 1 ?\n\n I can see the huge smile on Gerald's face after Fuhr's performance.", "AHL PLAYOFF SCORES-- FIRST ROUND\t(home team in CAPS)\n================================\n\nGAMES PLAYED ON TUES, 4/20\n-------------------------\nRochester 6\tUTICA 4\nFredericton at Cape Breton\n\nSERIES STATI (plural of status? :)\n----------------------------------\nAdirondack leads CDI, 3-0\nProvidence tied w/Springfield, 2-2\nBinghamton tied w/Baltimore, 1-1\nRochester leads Utica, 2-1\nSt John's leads Moncton, 2-0\nCape Breton tied w/Fredericton, 1-1", "I was wondering if anyone types in the box scores each day.\nI am at college and am not able to get them till the weekend.\nI would be thankful if someone could p-mail the Twins box scores every so \noften.\nAlso I am looking for a Twins 93 schedule.", "TSN Sportsdesk just reported that the OTTAWA SUN has reported that\nMontreal will send 4 players + $15 million including Vin Damphousse \nand Brian Bellows to Phillidelphia, Phillie will send Eric Lindros\nto Ottawa, and Ottawa will give it's first round pick to Montreal.\n \nIf this is true, it will most likely depend on whether or not Ottawa\ngets to choose 1st overall. Can Ottawa afford Lindros' salary?\n \nPersonally, I can't see Philli giving up Lindros -- for anything. \nThey didn't give away that much to Quebec just to trade him away \nagain. Not to mention that Lindros seems to be a *huge* draw in\nPhillie -- and that he represents a successful future for the \nfranchise.\n \nOttawa may be better off taking the 4 players +$15 from Montreal\nfor the pick.", ": Hi there,\n: \n: I'm german and I have been into this MLB stuff since almost one year now.\n: There are many problems occuring for me. One of them is the ERA statistic for\n: pitchers. What does it say ??\n\nERA indicates the average number of earned runs attributed to a pitcher per\nnine inning game. Thus, if a pitcher pitched 3 innings and gave up 1 earned\nrun, his 9 inning equivelent perfomance would be 3 earned runs, thus his ERA\nis 3.00. To compute the ERA you simply take the number of earned runs divided\nby the innings pitched and then multiple the result by 9.\n\n\tERA = (ER/IP) * 9\n\nAn earned run is run that is given up by the pitcher that is not attributed\nto a fielding error. More specifically, if an error occurs that represented\nthe third out, all runs scored after the error are considered UNEARNED runs.\nEarned runs are also runs scored as a result of players who were left on base\nwhen the pitcher exited the game. Here are some examples:\n\n\tIf there are two outs in an inning and there are men on base. If\n\tan error occurs that represents the third out, all of the runs after\n\tthis error and NOT counted as earned runs.\n\n\tIf a pitcher issues some base on balls (walks), and leaves the game\n\tbefore the inning is completed, he is responsible for the people who\n\twere left on base. If the those runners who were left on base score,\n\tand the score was not a result of an error, those eraned runs are\n\tattributed to the pitcher who left the game.\n\nI hope this explains things for you.", "\n\n\n\n[stuff deleted]\n\n\n\nThe last year before Bryan Murray took over, the Wings did not make the\nplayoffs. While they had been considered a possible contender when Jacques\nDemers first arrived, in his last two years they were, respectively,\nembarrassed in the first round by Chicago, and then failed to make the \nplayoffs (at a time, a might add, when there were only five teams in the\nNorris).\n\nIt's true that Vancouver did not make the playoffs for many a year before \nQuinn came, but in those years the Smythe Division was a lot--I mean *a lot*--\ntougher division than the Norris, also known as the \"Snorris\", division.\nVancouver had to play Edmonton and Calgary, both very legitimate Stanley\nCup contenders, eight times a year, while Detroit got to play such \npowerhouses as Toronto and Minnesota. Now, Edmonton is hardly even a force\nin the league, and the Smythe even has the mighty San Jose sharks, while\nover this same period of time in which Vancouver was improving, so was \neverybody in the Norris (except St. Louis). Detroit had to improve just\nto keep up with the competition in their division. They had to improve *a\nlot* to get better than their competition in the Norris.\n\nBryan Murray inherited a team with very little talent. For really good\nplayers, they had Yzerman, Burr, and Probert, and that was about it. (And\nno doubt some will dispute whether Burr and Probert were that good). The\nrest were either very green rookies or washed up veterans. The only reason\nthey got as far as they did in the years before Murray came was due to the\ncoaching of Demers, who, at least at first, got every last ounce of effort\npossible out of his team. Then, even his coaching began to degrade.\n\n\nThere are a number of reasons why Detroit wasn't in as bad a shape standings\nwise when Murray took over as Vanc. was when Quinn took over, some of which\nI outlined above, but Murray did not have any better personnel to work with\nat the outset than did Quinn, with the exception of Yzerman. And one player\ncannot alone make a team into a Stanley Cup contender, as I'm sure everyone\nreading this will agree. \n\nWe'll be able to see better which team is really the most improved when they\nface each other in the conference final (assuming they don't get knocked out,\nlike last year).\n", "\nThe probability is that the Oilers are not going anywhere.\n\nPocklington has chosen this moment to make his \"last\" stand is\nbecause he is at the moment of maximum advantage...the provincial\ngovernment is months away from a provincial election...it is\nthe moment when he has maximum power to convince Northlands\nto give him a better arena deal or a better purchase price...\nand it is before the NHL's new collective agreement with\nthe players which might involve some enhanced revenue-sharing.\n\nPocklington is many things...stupid is not one of them.\n\nHe can dictate terms...because other cities will pay his\nprice if Edmonton doesn't.\n\nEdmonton has already fucked up its international airport, and\nsurrendered supremacy to Calgary, and over the next few years\nEdmonton is going to take a hard hit from government cutbacks.\nIt will screw itself beyond recogniton if it manages to find\na way to lose its hockey team too...because Northlands wants\nto continue to use the Oilers to subsidize horse racing.\n\nHowever, in this case, about the long-term financial\nviability of the Oilers, the fact is that Pocklington is basically \nright, regardless of who owns the team, and it is right to provoke\nthe crisis now, before the team accumulates millions of dollars\nin losses, or becomes habitually uncompetitive because of lack\nof money.\n\nSather has done his job...the Oilers are poised to be competitive\nagain very soon (Al Strachan, one of the most knowledgeble hockey\nwriters in Canada in a post-mortem of the Oilers season in\nthe Globe and Mail recently agrees with me.)", "\nActually, that's based on the NHL's history of 7 games. The statstical\nodds of winning one straight game -- 50/50. Two straight games -- 25%. Three\nstraight games -- 12.5%, 4 straight games = 6.25%. The odds of the Penguins\nwinning 14 straight games in the playoffs was 0.0061%. Of course, this doesn't\ninclude weighted average, but the Pens beating the Devils 3 straight (a weaker\nteam) along with beating the Rangers 3 straight (a much stronger team) has made\nthe act balanced out. That's about right. For Boston the odds of winning are\nprobably closer to 10% (with weighted average) since Buffalo's record isn't as\ngood and Boston has a stronger team. Enough about my QBA probabilities though!\nIt's just goes to prove ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE, if you integrate that to Debbie\nGibson :-)\n\n\nMoog gets about ***'s out of 5 for his performance from me. I give Blue 4\nstarts. Fuhr has been too tough. Buffalo caught a hot goaltender just in\ntime...I mean, after all, Buffalo is 3 wins, 7 losses in their last 10.\n\n\nIt's very frustrating to lose, and you've gotta say something. Actually\nit's not about winning or losing, it is how you play the game. But when the\ncompetition is magnified to this level, 99.9% of the people only care about\nwho wins or loses :-)\n\n\nI think Buffalo will win in 6 -- it's not like Boston is getting blown away.\nThey lost 2 OT games -- with a different bounce, they could easily be up 2-1.\n\n\nGood point here. Chicago's in deep trouble tonight. The 'Hawks have a bad\npast history of winning the division and losing early. When they don't finish\n1st, they do okay.", "\tI looked up \"might\" to see why you selected that particular word,\nand discovered the line \". . . to express permission, liberty,\nprobability, possibility . . .\" It also said something about being a\n\"polite\" alternative to \"may.\" The presence of \"probability, possibility\"\ncan certainly be used to partially explain your word selection. \nSo, I'd say to all extents and purposes, \"Yes, you might.\" In fact, you did.\n(Not that you were asking *me* specifically.)\n\n\tThe next question is, why would a mailing list be \"more\" appropriate?\nWe don't all get mailing lists. We surely don't all get mailing lists about\nthe teams about which we are most enthused. So it seems to me r.s.baseball\nis an appropriate place to look for information about teams one doesn't\nnecessarily follow day-to-day.\n\n\tThis is not intended as flamage, but rather is an attempted answer,\nas you posed your post as a question.", "\n\nBob, sex is already ALL OVER baseball! Do you think those uniforms\ncan get ANY TIGHTER??\n\nTodd Hundley's could be, I suppose; he seems to favor the\nCarlton Fisk baggy-pants style. Very unfortunate. Todd, word to the\nwise: if ya got it, flaunt it!", "\nOh... I forgot... Art Shamsky, former Red and Mets player. Batted .301\nbetween injuries in 1969 (fell short of qualifying for Top 10 because of\ninjuries and platoon with Ron Swoboda; no Swobo wasn't Jewish).", "Rogers is the \"one-batter lefty\" in the bullpen. Dusty has also said he\ntrusts Rogers to get the final out in a ballgame where Beck is\nunavailable, so you might see a couple of saves for Kevin. Then again, if\nany of the regular rotation falters, Rogers is a possible candidate to\nstart, though this would appear less likely now that Dave Burba did well\nin an emergency start.", "I am looking for all the 84 boxscores of any NHL team for \nsome personal research. Can someone help me ?", "The regular season of the 1992-93 Davis Tabletop Baseball League has\njust come to an end. To help us with next year's league, I would\nappreciate it if you would take a couple of minutes and vote for\nour league MVP and CY winners. These awards, and players' standings\nin them, will inflate their salaries for next year's league.\n \nPlease vote for 5 in each category, in order. For example...\n \n1. Barry Bonds\n2. Frank Thomas\n3. Biff Pocoroba\n4. Shooty Babitt\n5. \"Lips\" Lundy.\n \nPlease do NOT vote for pitchers in MVP voting for this league. Each team\nin the league gets one candidate for MVP, and one for CY. Defensive\nposition is listed where applicable, along with an abbreviation of\ntheir performance there (E=Excellent, V=Very Good, A=Average, \nP=Poor, B=Very Poor) Thanks... please reply by April 10.\nFor the record - the season was 144 games long. Thanks for your help.\n \nMVP Candidates\n \nName G AB H 2B 3B HR R RBI BB K SB CS IBB BA/OBP/SLG DEF\nGriffey 124 338 99 27 0 16 44 64 39 50 0 0 16 293/362/515 8-P\nEMartinez 139 562 176 55 3 14 85 87 44 77 14 5 6 313/359/496 5-A\nSandberg 137 559 163 35 6 20 100 102 64 67 4 1 2 292/360/483 4-V\nVentura 144 562 161 32 0 9 83 59 80 61 0 1 3 286/374/391 5-E\nMcGriff 148 533 150 25 1 33 89 98 102 132 0 3 20 281/398/518 3-P\nMcGwire 138 487 134 31 1 34 108 104 128 100 0 3 38 275/425/552 3-E\nRAlomar 127 515 159 23 8 5 85 34 70 67 54 11 1 309/389/414 4-P\nDykstra 144 582 157 27 1 3 94 60 65 67 89 20 3 270/339/335 8-A\nButler 137 534 158 13 13 1 82 50 83 69 13 19 0 296/386/375 8-B\nDeer 119 425 103 26 1 33 66 75 44 141 1 3 2 242/311/541 9-V\nBonds 145 465 143 39 4 33 128 101 187 62 23 5 68 308/502/622 7-E\nHrbek 129 423 112 21 0 12 62 52 80 77 1 0 2 265/380/400 3-P\nJGonzalez 135 543 121 17 1 38 59 85 28 146 0 0 2 223/259/468 8-B\n \nSome players missed time due to injuries, others were sat down at the end\nto avoid the possibility of injury. There are better players than those \non this list, but each team gets one and only one candidate. Some players\nplayed more than 144 games due to being traded to teams with more games\nleft in the same time span. Now, on to the pitchers...\n \nName ERA G W L S IP H BB K HR GS CG ShO WP\nDMartinez 3.01 30 15 8 0 209.1 173 76 124 12 30 2 0 2\nDibble 0.80 37 0 2 25 33.2 21 8 46 1 0 0 0 0\nRijo 3.40 26 13 7 0 177.1 175 56 133 12 26 5 1 5\nMussina 2.92 29 15 7 0 206.2 167 46 119 15 29 3 1 2\nBenes 3.24 28 14 9 0 194.1 172 53 127 13 28 4 1 1\nKHill 2.93 27 16 7 0 196.2 144 64 166 20 26 8 3 1\nSmoltz 3.62 28 11 11 0 186.1 177 66 158 9 28 6 1 7\nCone 3.46 28 14 7 0 197.2 152 103 193 10 28 7 1 5\nDrabek 2.79 29 13 10 0 206.2 166 55 131 16 29 4 0 2\nTewksbury 3.28 25 12 8 0 172.2 168 36 64 8 25 4 2 1\nClemens 2.94 31 16 11 0 223.1 198 71 178 13 31 17! 2 1\nTomlin 2.48 28 12 5 0 196.0 172 42 97 8 27 1 0 2\nFarr 0.81 38 4 1 17 55.1 28 25 38 1 0 0 0 0\n \nThere you have it. Curt Schilling threw a perfect game during the year,\nand Ken Hill threw a no-hitter. Rob Dibble had pitched 32 scoreless\ninnings to start the year, only to choke in the last two games to cost\nthe Perot's Giant Sucking Sounds a playoff spot. \n \nIf you want stats of more players, they are available by request. Please\ntake the time to reply if you can. Thanks.\n \n \n\n-- \n* Gary Huckabay * Kevin Kerr: The Al Feldstein of the mid-90's! *\n* \"A living argument for * If there's anything we love more than a huge *\n* existence of parallel * .sig, it's someone quoting 100 lines to add *\n* universes.\" * 3 or 4 new ones. And consecutive posts, too. *", "\n\nThere are several problems with the way the game is being presented to the\nfans. I feel that geographical names would enhance regional loyalties\nmore than names honouring personages. And of course, they would not appear\nnearly as confusing to one approaching the sport for the first time. \nAnother thing that bothers me is the points system. Percentages, as used in\nthe other major sports are clearly more informative. When I look at the\nNHL standings the first thing I have to do is make a quick calculation to\naccount for games in hand (which is almost always the case). Some will\nobject to percentages, claiming perhaps, that it is an \"Americanization\"\nof the sport but I feel that using percentages is more informative and\nwhether it is \"American\" or not is irrelevant.\n \n\nEven if Orr couldn't have contributed without the likes of Norris, you would\nhave to agree that Norris couldn't have contributed without the likes of Orr.\nAnd taking a poll of most fans would quickly tell you who the fans feel made\nthe more meaningful contribution.\n\n\n\nIt doesn't look as if the division names are going to hold up either does it?\n\n\n-- ", "Okay, the Caps AGAIN are about to break out the golf clubs but before they\ndo, does anyone have the history of the Washington Capitals' futility\nrecord in the playoffs? I remember that Terry's first year was the first\nyear that the Caps finally made it to the third round but before under\nBrian, I noticed that every other year the Caps got to the second round\nand the years in between they didn't make it past the first round. Is this\ntrend continuning? \nThe Admiral, a hopeless Caps fan.\nP.S. We still remember that 3 OT loss to the Islanders! Aurggghhhhhhhhh!\n____________________________________________________________________________\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n", "Hi all,\n\nI've been locked in a small closet chained to a lab bench for the last week or\ntwo without access to really important information. I saw the 3.5 million\nshoulder back on the DL--How long is he out for (i.e. How many millions/inning\nwill he get this year?) Nothing personal against Higuera mind you, just\nwondering how Bud can keep coffing up money for him when he lets current\nbig producers go over a relative pittance. (Please realize the term \n\"relative pittance\" can only be used with sarcasm when discussing baseball\nsalaries.)\n\nAdditional questions: I did'nt get to see Bones pitch this spring--how is\nhe looking and where is he going to fit in the rotation?\n\nHow is Surhoff shaping up defensively at third?\n\nAre they going to build a new stadium? When?", "\n[Some discussion about whether Elias is money grubbing deleted]\n\n\n\n\n\nSome thoughts and facts,\n\n1.) Bill James is a partial owner of STATS, inc. However he has almost\nnothing to do with the day-to-day operations of the company, although he\ndoes have significant input into the design of the books that bear his name.\n(The handbook, but not the scoreboard). To the best of my knowledge, the\nonly things that Bill actually writes for STATS are the predictions section\nof the handbook, and the Bill James Fantasy Baseball rulebook.\n\n2.) The debate over Elias goes way back. Bill James' early stuff was hampered\nby the fact that Elias would not give access to their stats at any price.\nProject Scoresheet, and later, STATS were founded to fill this void. You\ncan call STATS, and ask them for a report on just about anything in their\ndatabase, and they will provide it -- for a price, of course. Or you could\njust log into their online system and look at the data yourself. Having\nattempted to pry numbers from Elias in the past (football, not baseball), they\njust don't do that. In STATS eyes, the high ground comes from making the\ninformation available at all.\n\n3.) That being said, I'm pretty dissapointed by Bill's book this year, too.\nI am given to understant that it was mostly a response to the publishers \ndesire to have the book come out sooner than April.\n\nHope this makes things just a little bit clearer.\n\n(Bias alert. I am a former part-time employee of STATS.)", "The Blues scored two power-play goals in 17 seconds in the third period\nand the beat the Chicago Blackhawks 4-3 Sunday afternoon at Chicago Stadium.\nBrendan Shanahan tied the game 3-3 and Brett Hull scored the game winner 17\nseconds later. Jeff Brown and Denny Felsner scored the other Blues goals.\nBrian Noonan had the hat trick for the Hawks, who also had some very good\ngoaltending from Ed Belfour. Blues goalie Curtis Joseph was solid down the\nstretch to preserve the Blues lead.\n\nThe Hawks came out strong in the first period, outshooting the Blues 6-1 and\ntaking a 1-0 lead on Noonan's first goal. Right after an interference penalty\non Rick Zombo had expired, Keith Brown intercepted a clearing attempt at the\nblue line and passed the puck to Steve Larmer in the right circle. Larmer fired\na long slap shot, and Noonan deflected the puck between Joseph's pads. After\nthe goal, the Blues picked up the intensity and went on to outshoot the Hawks\n10-9 in the first period.\n\nJeff Brown tied the game 1-1 at 3:12 of the second. Nelson Emerson broke in on\nthe left side, got by Craig Muni and pushed the puck across the slot. Belfour\ncame out to play the pass and shoveled it to the right boards, where Brown\ncollected it and slapped it in before Belfour could get back to the goal.\n\nTwo minutes later on a Hawks power play, Belfour stopped Rich Sutter on a\nshort-handed break-in. Chris Chelios picked up the puck and passed it to Jeremy\nRoenick who carried it on right wing and found an open Noonan with a nice pass\nacross the slot. Noonan fired it past Joseph at 5:30 for the 2-1 lead.\n\nNoonan completed his hat trick 3:11 later to increase the Hawks' lead to 3-1.\nStephane Matteau made a nice pass from the right boards to Noonan who beat\nStephane Quintal by driving to the net. Joseph had no chance as Noonan\ndeflected the puck in the net.\n\nDenny Felsner reduced the Blues deficit to 3-1 at 12:49 after picking up the\nrebound of Basil McRae's slap shot from the slot. Janney set up McRae for\nthe shot, and the puck sailed wide of the net and bounced off the end boards\nto Felsner. Felsner sticked the rebound into the partially open net. The Blues\noutshot the Hawks 10-5 in the second period.\n\nWith the Blackhawks leading 3-2 at 9:56 of the third, Stephane Matteau picked\nup a high sticking penalty. Just 53 seconds into the power play, Steve Smith\nwas called for slashing, giving the Blues a 5-on-3 advantage for 1:07.\n\nThe Blues didn't waste time as Brendan Shanahan scored just 23 seconds into\nthe two-man advantage to tie the game 3-3. Janney found Hull in the slot,\nand Hull fired a rocket at Belfour. Jeff Brown collected the rebound and\npassed it to Shanahan in the left circle. Shanahan beat Belfour from a sharp\nangle.\n\nJust 17 seconds later, Hull scored the game winner for the Blues. Nelson\nEmerson broke in on right wing, carried the puck behind the net along with\ntwo Hawks defensemen. Emerson made a nice pass to an unchecked Hull in the\nslot, and Hull beat Belfour to put the Blues up 4-3.\n\nThe Hawks had several chances to tie the game in the final minutes, but Joseph\nmade some brilliant saves to prevent the Hawks from scoring. He stopped Troy\nMurray point blank from just right of the crease with 2:30 left in the game.\nThe Blues killed off a late Hawks power play, with Rich Sutter clearing the\npuck with his hand as it was trickling along the goal line. The Blues held\non to win the game. The Hawks oushot the Blues 13-7 in the third period,\ntotaling 27 shots on goal for each team. The Blues special teams were excellent\nin the game. The Blues killed 6 of 7 Hawks power plays, and scored twice on\non four power play chances. The Blues ranked among the best special teams in\nthe league. They rank 2nd in penalty killing and 3rd on the power play.\n \nThe game was carried live on ABC, the first time an NHL game other than an\nAll-Star game has been shown on network television since May 24, 1980, when\nCBS carried Game 6 of the Stanley Cup finals.\n\nThe best-of-seven series continues Wednesday in Chicago and Friday and Sunday\nin St. Louis.\n\nBox score\n---------\nBlues 4, Blackhawks 3\n\nBLUES 0 2 2 -- 4\nCHICAGO 1 2 0 -- 3\n\nFIRST PERIOD\n\n CHI -- Noonan 1 (Larmer, K.Brown), 8:17.\n\n Penalties -- Shanahan, StL (holding), 2:28; Zombo, StL (interference), 6:00;\nMurphy, Chi (high-sticking), 11:30; Grimson, Chi (boarding), 14:39; Zombo, StL\n(holding), 18:46.\n\nSECOND PERIOD\n\n STL -- Brown 1 (Shanahan, Emerson), 3:12.\n CHI -- (PPG) Noonan 2 (Roenick, Chelios), 5:40.\n CHI -- Noonan 3 (Matteau, Sutter), 8:51.\n STL -- Felsner 1 (McRae, Janney), 12:49.\n\n Penalties -- Baron, StL (interference), 4:33; Wilson, StL (tripping), 9:31.\n\nTHIRD PERIOD\n\n STL -- (PPG) Shanahan 1 (J.Brown, Hull), 11:12.\n STL -- (PPG) Hull 1 (Emerson, J.Brown), 11:29.\n\n Penalties -- Shanahan, StL (roughing), 1:54; Matteau, Chi (high-sticking),\n9:56; Smith, Chi (slashing), 10:49; Baron, StL (roughing), 14:23.\n\nSHOTS ON GOAL\n\nBLUES 10 10 7 -- 27\nCHICAGO 9 5 13 -- 27\n\nPower-play Opportunities -- St. Louis 2 of 4; Chicago 1 of 7.\n\nGoaltenders -- St. Louis, Joseph, 1-0-0 (27 shots-24 saves).\n Chicago, Belfour, 0-1-0 (27-23).\n\nReferee -- Kerry Fraser. Linesmen -- Kevin Collins, Brian Murphy. A -- 16,199.", "[...]\n\nActually, according to the DA information posted by Sherri, Boggs is superior\ndefensively to have. Here's their Defensive Averages for the last five\nyears: [compared to average at 3b, AL]\n\n 1988 1989 1990 1991 1992\nBoggs .643[+2] .659[+47] .550[-54] .653[+33] .634[+32]\nHayes ------- .601[-40] .622[+18] .606[-14] .574[-28]\n\nIf Hayes is a defensive standout at third, he's done a good job in disguising\nit. To put it another way, compared to an average third baseman last year:\n\nBoggs converted 11 more grounders into outs, turned 2 more double plays, and\nprevented 11 doubles.\n\nHayes let 12 more grounders go by for hits, turned 6 more double plays, and\nprevented 4 doubles.\n-- \nDale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Baseball fanatic", "That more or less says it. I flicked the Penguins game on briefly and saw\nUlf cross-check Valeri in the face. I am wondering if Don Cherry is going to\ngo off on this at all in coach's corner.\n\nbillc", "In what seems to be a classic Mitchell move, he drops a fly ball, and injures\nhis hamstring on the same play. Haven't heard anything on how serious the\nleg is.\n\n--->Paul, who me? bitter about Mitchell's performance in Seattle? Nah.\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n We will stretch no farm animal beyond its natural length\n\n paula@koufax.cv.hp.com Paul Andresen Hewlett-Packard (503)-750-3511", " ^^^^^^\nNo argument at all with Murphy. He scared the hell out of me when he came in\nlast year. On the other hand, the club though enough of Boever to put him into\nan awful lot of games (he may have led the league in appearances - he did at\nleast at some point). He seemed to be a very viable setup guy - but I guess\nthat's not considered that crucial by the club. I can just remember two years\nago so well, though...\n...\n\nI'm not that concerned. Those guys have been relatively consistent over the\nyears and they have no good reasons to decline (no injuries, not old, ...).\nI expect them to come through just fine. It's those guys that have not\nbeen consistently good that are the worrisome part, even if they are coming\nthrough right now.\n\nThis sounds like their old road unis. Pretty dull. Buttons or pullovers?\nI'll check through my uniform book to see if they've always had some orange.\n\n\nWell, we'll see. I've got a Astros pullover shirt with the \"Astros stripes\"\nacross the shoulders and I have trouble making myself wear it in public. i\ncan see why they might want that to change. Gee, if they eliminate the\norange, will they reupholster the seats in the Astros stripes section (what\nused to be the gold and yellow levels - I don't know those numbers they use\nnow).\n\nI saw a pinstripe version of an Astros cap and I actually thought it looked \ngood!", "(Susan Clark) asks:\n\nI am not so sure about the celebrated players of the game, but Tod Hartje,\nwho played for Harvard in college and then went on to play in the AHL\n(initially for Moncton and currently for Providence-- thanks to Daryl \nTurner for the update!) appeared on David Letterman's show about two\nyears ago now.\n\nTod has the distinction of being the first American born player to go \nand play in the former Soviet Union. This was arranged by Jets GM Mike \nSmith while Tod was playing in Moncton at about the time all those \nEuropean players were coming over to North America to play in the NHL.\n\nTod spent a year playing in Russia and played with or against some of\nthe Russian players who have just entered the NHL in the last two years.\nHe wrote a book on his experiences called \"Behind the Red Line\" (check it\nout!) and appeared on the Letterman show to talk about them.\n\n-- Mike ", "\nI heard he had a strained abdominal muscle or something like that.", " During the Detroit game Mon night there were octopus thrown on\n the ice what is the meaning or symbolism here? They used to\n throw fish on the ice here in Spokane afew years ago. I never \n knew where this came from.\n", "I think that NHLPA' 93 is the best video game available now.\nof course many things could be done better, but i really appreciate that\nthe names of players are the real ones, no matter if it lacks some logos...\nI am still playing it since November leading different teams to the finals\nand making scorers from the same team compete for the top scoring:\nYesterday I won the title using Toronto against Hartford (4 games to two),\nI played the playoffs in a 7 games fashion (5 minutes for each period) and\nthe best scorer and shooter was Gilmour (116 shots if I remember well)\n-- \n_____________________________________________________\n\n Iskander AYARI", "It is my understanding that the Dead will sing the NA at the Giants\nhome opener on Mon. 4/12. The Giants are opening today in St. Louis.\n\nluigi", "Farewell, Minnesota fans. Get stuffed, Dallas Stars.\n\nAs the North Stars fade to black, I hope that Minneapolis/St. Paul are\nnot long without an NHL team. It just seems \"right\" that the hotbed of\namateur hockey in the USA should have an NHL team as well. The loss of\nthe team is certainly not the fault of the fans (though the start of the\n1989-90 season made it look real bad for a while).\n\nI wish now that I kept the North Stars cap I bought at Maple Leaf\nGardens the morning after they eliminated Montreal in 1980. (I got it\nto spite the Montreal fans in the small town where I grew up.) What a\nglorious season that was for the North Stars!\n\n dwarf", "Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, lend me your ears for but a moment,\n\n\n\n\tThe National Legue Eastern Division Champions will be the...\n\n\n\n \t\t\tPhiladelphia Phillies\n\n\n\t\tI one hundred and ten percent guarantee!!!\n\n\n\n\tChamberlain Hollins Dykstra Incaviglia Jackson Williams\n\tDaulton Greene Kruk Mulholland Rivera Thompson Duncan\n", "briefly, since i'm off to sleep.\n\nmle's work pretty well for AA nd AAA players.\n\nplayers who are 22 and younger will tend to have explosions\n in their numbers, whether mMLE's or not, in the next 2 years...\n\nplayers who are 26 and OLDER, at those levels, generally have\n inflated MLE's.\n\nthey're about as reliable as having major league stats for a player.", "Only if you persist in believing that Peter Gammons is more knowledgable about\nbaseball than the average mailbox. Okay, I'm overstating. Still, the man \nactually had the gall to say that one out of every six pitchers in the NL this\nyear did not pitch in the majors last year.\n\nHuh?\n\nIMO, this expansion will not see the explosive jump in offense that the \nother expansion drafts had, since the talent was diluted over both leagues.\nIn Gammons' defense, because the talent drain came from the AL as well, some\nincrease will be seen. He also gets credit for mentioning that the 1969 jump\nin offense was due also to the rules changes after the 1968 season. He's still\nfull of it...\n\n", "\nHuh? Clemens pitched last on Saturday, giving him his usual four days\nrest. \n\n-- \n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nBrian Curran Mead Data Central brian@meaddata.com ", "Hello, my friends and I are running the Homewood Fantasy Baseball\nLeague (pure fantasy baseball teams). Unfortunely, we are running the league\nusing Earl Weaver Baseball II with the Comm. Disk II and we need the stats\nfor the 1992 season. (Preferably the 1992 Major League Stat Disk) We have\nthe '92 total stats but EWB2 needs the split stats otherwise we have 200\ninning games because the Comm. Disk turns total stats into vs. L's stats\nunless you know both right and left -handed stats.", "\nGee, I never knew Valentine made a comment about how Viola signing\nwith Boston was gonna bring a World Series title to Boston. I don't\nthink Valentine ever said Boston will win this year. Boy, talk about\nsensitive, insecure Toronto fans. :)\n\nIn any case, I think Viola would have made a better signing. Why?\nViola is younger, and is left handed (how many left handed starters does\nToronto have?\n\n", "Teemu Selanne had 3 goals, Keith Tkachuk had one, and Luciano Borsato\nscored a rare Jets shorthanded goal as the Jets held on to beat the\nCanucks 5-4, and close the series to 2-1. Trevor Linden and Pavel\nBure had two goals each for the Canucks in a losing cause.\n\nSelanne came out of a two game goal scoring slump, scoring two powerplay\ngoals, and one on a nice breakaway pass from Darrin Shannon.\n\nHard work paid off tonight for the Jets, and if the Jets continue to\nexhibit this strong work effort, they can make a series of it. (I woofed\nlast year when we were up 3-1...I ain't going to do THAT again. I'll\nhave to be quietly happy with a solid performance. ;)", "\nI like Alomar. But I'd like to differ with your opinion about \"a city\nwhich is likely to pour in the votes...\".\n\nI attended many games last year during the balloting. I know that a\ngreat number of the attendees DID NOT fill out their ballots, but left\nthem, beer soaked and torn on the floor of the stands. Toronto gets\nno more and no less votes than any other city for the All Star game.\n\nUnfortunately, this is not a one time thing. I've attended games\nduring the last four seasons, and it has happened every time. The\napathetic attitude to All Star ballots really offends me.", "\nLooks like Bob Errey's ring really sparkles in that locker room, and everyone\nelse wants one, too! :-) Correct me if I'm wrong though, (just through\nthe net, not through e-mail, I don't need 100 rl's in my e-mail!) but wasn't\nBoston down 2-0 vs. Buffalo last year?Boston lost 1 and 2 at home and won\n3 and 4 in Buffalo. Whoever wins game 3 will advance. Simple as that!!! :-)", "\n\nFine, are you willing to bet that he will bat .400 the rest of the way?\n\nThe point is that he has hurt the Rockies so far; it's that he *will* hurt\nthem, eventually. Just as much as he hurt the Expos and the Cardinals the\npast couple seasons.\n\n\nIt has happened for the past 3+ seasons; where have you been?\n\n\nWe'll see come September. (I have an outstanding bet with someone that\nGalarraga's OBP will be less than .300 on June 1.)", "\n[stuff deleted]\n\nOk, here's the solution to your problem. Move to Canada. Yesterday I was able\nto watch FOUR games...the NJ-PITT at 1:00 on ABC, LA-CAL at 3:00 (CBC), \nBUFF-BOS at 7:00 (TSN and FOX), and MON-QUE at 7:30 (CBC). I think that if\neach series goes its max I could be watching hockey playoffs for 40-some odd\nconsecutive nights (I haven't counted so that's a pure guess).\n\nI have two tv's in my house, and I set them up side-by-side to watch MON-QUE\nand keep an eye on BOS-BUFF at the same time. I did the same for the two\nafternoon games.\n\nBtw, those ABC commentaters were great! I was quite impressed; they seemed\nto know that their audience wasn't likely to be well-schooled in hockey lore\nand they did an excellent job. They were quite impartial also, IMO.\n\n", "\n\nGoing into the ninth with a 3 run lead, ...2 runs score...runners on \nfirst and second...RD throws, \"there's a drive waaaaaayyyyyyy back, \nPuckett to the wall, leaps, He CAUGHT THE BALL!!!! WHAT A CATCH BY KIRBY!!\nTWINS WIN!\" and RD gets the save. His line 1 IP, 2 walks, 2 hits, and\none robbed home run...", "3rd uptade:\n\nHere are the standings for the poll after 39 votes: 5 points for 1st, 4 for 2nd,... 1 point for 5th: \n\nEA/ NHLPA game\n\n1. DET 102\n2. CHI 97 \n3. NY 74\n4. VAN 73\n5. MTL 69\n6. PIT 33\n7. WSH 29\n8. BOS 21\n9..ASW 16 \n10.CGY 10\n11.QUE 9\n12.ASE 8\n13.WPG 7\n14.LA 5\n OTW 5\n STL 5\n TOR 5\n18.BUF 3\n PHI 3\n TBY 3\n21.SJ 2\n22.MIN 1\n Atlanta to win Turner Cup 1 (not in the game, but 1 person vote)\n24.EDM 0\n HTF 0\n LI 0\n NJ 0\n\n4 teams have no point\nContinue to send your votes in this format (until April 20th, approximately)\n------------------------------------------------\n1.\n2.\n3.\n4.\n5.\n------------------------------------------------\n\n\nKeywords: \n\n\n-- \n_____________________________________________________", "\nI've seen it as \"Colmn\" also.\n\nBlame the Associated Press. After the official scorer balances the\nofficial score card, they copy it and give it to several diffent people. \nOne of those is a person from AP whose job it is to type it up (using a\ntemplate on a laptop) and transmit it to the AP offices in New York\n(Rockefeller Center) via the telephone. The box scores are not checked\nand just rebroadcasted over AP's news delivery services. If there are\ncorrections, those are issued later. It is the person sitting in front\nof a laptop at Shea (or whereever) whose fault that is. [NOTE: The AP\nputs out boxscores in three different formats with the one you see in\nmost newspapers being the first one]\n\nLast week they were in Denver. Maybe the AP person in Denver did this\n(remember, they just started with MLB out there). Check tomorrow's\npaper (4/21) and see if the person who is doing it from Shea does the\nsame thing.", "If I were Pat Burns I'd throw in the towel. The wings dominated every\naspect of the game. Trying to mix up the lines is a dead end. Murray\nhas too many combinations to counter with. My prediction is wings in 5.", "\nBill James is, however, very closely tied to STATS.", "\nHindsight's 20-20. Nobody expected Kisio to have his 2nd best career year.\n\n\nI didn't mean to imply that Gund's offer wasn't enough. Gund's offer\nwas the right $, but too late in the season. $2M offered in November\nlets Sather buy a replacement for Murphy *this* season and make the\nplayoffs *this* year. $2M in March doesn't help Sather with his\nimmediate objectives, doesn't help with long term objectives (only a\nprospect or draft pick does, and no way should the Sharks do that).\nHowever, getting back to what-if games, had Kisio been traded to\nChicago last year, then the Sharks go 0 for October, and maybe Gund\npanicks sooner in November. And here's another what-if twist: Chicago\nwould have had Kisio this season; they *never* go after Murphy in the\nfirst place because Kelly is having his *best* season (bigger guys in\nChicago). So Gund has no competition. So Ferriera, Sather, and Keenan\nall look like geniuses.\n\nA broken fax machine, and Ferriera, Keenan, and maybe Kingston\n(and maybe even Green) lose their jobs. Kind of makes you\nshiver doesn't it. :-)\n\nBottomline, for every black scenario any of you can concoct for\nKisio leaving, I can concoct an equally bright one.\n\n\nAre you serious?\n\t- Let Ferierra go,\n\t- fire Kingston (these last two basically mean that\n\t\tSharks are starting over again in terms of the\n\t\ttimetable to capture the Cup. As I've stated\n\t\tfrequently: 5 out 6 expansion teams had the same GM\n\t\tfrom inception through Cup season)\n\n\t- broadcast more home games than away games\n\t- broadcast very few road Pacific and Mountain time games\n\t- jack up my ticket prices from $27 to $38 in two years (not that I'm\n\t\tgoing to pay 120 bucks for 3 seats. I'll probably next to the\n\t\tvirtual 107 folks)\n\n\t- not tell me my priority #\n\t- not let me sell my priority #\n\t- in order for me to get the free jacket, force me to order my tickets\n\t\tfor next season before I get to select my section\n\n\t- not let me park at the new arena after paying for their\n\t\tprivileged parking lot (which was sometimes full when\n\t\tI got there) for 2 straight years.\n\nI've been a loyal ticket holder, since day 1 (literally) in spring of\n'90 when the team was announced. and I'm not getting that loyalty\nreturned. Wirtz treats his fans far better by comparison. And\nPocklington with his cheap tix is the best owner of all.\n\n\nI know one isn't suppose to make negative comments on signatures, but\nwhat did us Oiler fans do to you to deserve the \"Stay in Edmonton\"\npart? I'd never wish the Kings to leave metro-LA; it's too much fun\nwatching the Shark's beat them.", "\nThere are ALWAYS scalpers with tickets outside the Arena. You might have\nto pay a few bucks extra, but you can always find them. Look on the\nstreet under the message board, or out on the street in front of the Hyatt,\nor even around Gate 1. The later you buy them, the less money you'll pay,\nand during the regular season you could usually find some for near face\nvalue or below if you wait until game time. Might be better to pick them\nup earlier now, though.", "\n\nTrashy move from a trashy organization. After the front\noffice stated that nobody would lose their job over the\nSens. poor performance, Bridgeman is gone within 24 hours\nof the teams final game.\n\nYes...I know he screwed up letting the King's grab Loach.\n\nSexton's qualifications (aside from being cheap)??\n\n\t- he played some US college hockey,\n\t- he's pals with club president Bruce Firestone.\n\nJust the kind of experience you need when trying to build\nan expansion franchise. He'll probably be in the Hall of\nFame next year! :-)\n\nThis continues a tradition of front office gaffs:\n- Paul Anka and the arena deal\n- Denis Potvin and the GM postion\n- Mike Bossy and the scoring coach.\n\nHow do people in Ottawa feel about how the club is being run??\n", "\nM(--> were doomed to 4'th in the division. I'm still not convinced the\nM(--> Sabres will win this series (I've lived in Buffalo all my life, and\nM(--> these last 10 years have been playoff Hell), but I'm just sitting\nM(--> back, crossing my fingers and hoping the offense can keep scoring\n\nHave no fear, Doug, the Bruins are toast. Statistically, only 2 teams \nin **all** the Stanley Cup series ever played have come back to win. \nAnd it couldn't have happened to a nicer team, with all the crowing \nfrom Boston fans I've had to endure over the last month. \n\nTake heart, Bruins fans. At least you finished first in the Adams \n.\n\n- Jack\n\n * Laugh and the world thinks you're an idiot.", "Could someone please post the rosters for the College Hockey All-Star game East\nand West Rosters? Thanks in advance.\n", "\nActually, fired-coach George Kingston was a third of the GM\ntriumvirate. Now that the trio is now duo (Dean Lombardi and Chuck\nGrillo), the Sharks are already on their 3rd \"office of the GM\". And a\n4th is likely to happen before September; they'll either add the new\ncoach to the OofGM, or name a single GM. So your wager should be\namended to read that Sharks are likely to have their 5th GM before the\nPanther's get their 2nd. Can't wait to see how the next season's NHL\nGuide and Record Book lists the GM history of the Sharks.\n\nGiven the depth of next year's draft, the expansion draft rules, and\nthe reputation of their GMs, Anaheim and Miami look pretty good as the\nfirst 90s expansion teams to win a Cup. San Jose and Ottawa have\ninstability at the GM position, something that Philly, NYI, Edmonton,\nand Calgary did not have when they won their first Cups. Pittsburgh\ndid, but they needed a quarter century.", "\nmy understanding was that ted turner (owner of the braves) started running\nhis tv station nationwide, and started running all of his team's games on\nhis nationwide tv station, he dubbed his team ''america's team'' - that is,\nthe only team (at least, at the time) all of whose games could be seen\nacross america.\n\nnow, wor is nationwide out of beautiful secaucus, but not all mets games\nare on wor. wgn chicago and wsbk boston are two other superstations\n(at least, they are on the east coast). i don't know how many\ncubs/sox/sox games they show.\n\n--hymie hymowitz@cs.jhu.edu\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nI'll be mellow when I'm dead. --''Weird'' Al Yankovic\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nYou get your mellow, laid back attitude from Sonny the Cuckoo Bird.\n --Josh, about me", "\nAs long as the Yankees are in the same division the Red Sox will\nplay better than .500 baseball.\n\nOr the Red Sox can hire former East German swimming coaches to\n\"train\" them at the fine art of body \"building\". The Red Sox\ncan use Chinese women swimmers as a reference.\n\nWith the \"HAWK\", the Red Sox definitely have a chance for the\neast this year. He brings class, work ethic and leadership to\nthe park each day. And he has a burning desire to play in the\nWorld Series.\n\nFuture Hall-of-Famer, Andre Dawson will kick butt in Boston!\n\nfrom Rockies country,", "So far Simmons looks like a total idiot.\n\n\n1) Zane Smith should learn how to \"switchpitch\" and return from the DL. I\nwould rather have Zane Smith pitch right handed than have Moeller pitch at all.\n\n2) I am sure Simmons was ready to say I told you so after Otto had an\nimpressive win last week. NOw Otto's latest debacle has restored Simmon's\nreputation. Now he looks like he is back in his '92 form when he had the\nAL's highest ERA among starters. Four our sake(not Ted's sake), I hope he\npitches with a 3.5 ERA for the rest of the season. Yeah, right.\n\n3) Tomlin and Merced are a bit disappointing. They are still doing decently.\nBUt considering the considerable amount of talent and maturity they have\nshown their first seasons, they seem to have actually gotten a little\nbit worse. Tomlin was almost unhittable his rookie year against lefty batters.\nMerced had a very good OBA his rookie year. He showed a lot of concentration at\nthe plate in his rookie year.\n\n4) Walk: Well, he seems to be on the losing end tonight. BUt I still think that\nWalk desrved his contract.\n\n5) Leyland should accept a part of the blame for the LaValliere situation. I\ncan't understand his and management's fear of losing Tom Prince through\nwaivers. Even if they do, what's the use. He is aright hander like Slaught.\nNot a very smart platoon. Also, I am blaming Leyland in this case, since he is hcurrently convinced that LaVAlliere is through, while giving him\nway too much time last year in the regular season AND the playoffs(SLaught\nshould have played in all 7 games; he has a good average against right handed\npitching). Didn't Leyland and Simmons forsee this last year, and attempt to\ntrade LaValliere last year itself? Any fool could tell them LaVAlliere\nwasn't very fit last year.\n\n6) Dennis MOeller is SCARY!!!\n7) Candeleria: Well, he is not going to have such a high ERA at the end of the\nseason. Maybe it will be in 3-4 range. BUt $1 million plus? Come on. Other\nthan the customary home run giving stage Patterson goes through for a few weeks,\nPatterson has served the PIrates very well each year. So far, he seems to have\npitched well for the Rangers. I think the PIrates should have spent the money\non Patterson in stead.\n\n8) The Rookie batters: Well, Young has surprised me a bit with his instant impact. Other than that, their excellent performance hasn't been too much of a surprise. I think we should thank Doughty for that.\n\n9) Rookie Pitchers: Worse than expected, especially Cooke.\n10) Slaught: How come he wasn't given a contract extension last year? NOw his\nvalue has increased immensely.\n\n11) Lonnie Smith!! Well, Eric Davis was signed for a comparable amount.\nLet's see. Eric can hit better. He can run better. He can field better.\nNow why didnt the PIrates go after Eric Davis. An injured Davis is better\nthan a healthy Lonnie Smith. Even if Lonnnie Smith gets some big hits this year,he won't be an asset. He has looked terrible on the bases and in the field.\n\n12) Management: BIG BIG ZERO. Sauer has yet to make a forceful agreement\nin favor of revenue sharing. He seems more concerned about pleasing that\nidiot Danforth by preparing the team for a move to Tampa Bay.\n13) Alex Cole fiasco. The PIrates infield and CF positions look good. The\nRF and LF would have looked good if we could have gotten Cole to replace\ntwo of the four outfielders. Eric Davis, Van Slyke and Cole would have made a\nvery respectable outfield. Even without Eric Davis, thye PIrates would have\na respectable outfield with Cole, SVan Slyke, and Merced(I think he should hit\nleft handed against lefts in stead of switch hitting). Simmons did have options\nfor the outfield. Ironically, the biggest accomplishment of Simmon's tenure was\ngetting Alex Cole really cheap. Too bad.\n\n14) Compensatory draft picks for Bonds: Forget it. The pirates can rant and rave.\nthey will not get those picks. As of now, the issue is still being appealed.\nNow, if this doesnt convince anyone that Simmons and Sauer are idiots,\nnothing else will.\n\nOn a final note. Tim Wakefield won't be as awful as he was in his last 2\nstarts. BUt don't count on him pitching like last year for the rest of\nthe season. Also, if the Pirates are in contention towards rthe end of the\nseason, they will miss Redus's clutch hitting and his speed(he has peaked\nin the second half of the last 2 seasons)>\n", "\nI guarantee that if Bonds wins the MVP the Giants will finish higher\nthan 6th. \n\nluigi", "\nI think that Mike Foligno was the captain of the Sabres when he\ngot traded to the Leafs. Also, wasn't Rick Vaive the captain of\nthe Leafs when he got traded to Chicago (with Steve Thomas for\nEd Olcyzk and someone). Speaking of the Leafs, I believe that\nDarryl Sittler was their captain (he'd torn the \"C\" off his\njersey but I think he re-claimed the captaincy later on) when he\nwas traded to the Flyers.\n\nOh yeah, of course, Gretzky was the captain of the Oilers before\nhe was traded wasn't he? ", "\nMy respect for the power of the hockey gods is preventing me from\ncommenting on the above, and for commenting on whether the guy\nDamphousse was traded for is on vacation or not. Perhaps Roger\n(demonstrably in contempt of the hockey gods and paying for it) dares a\ncomment or two?", "Well, I looked at the scoring plan I had, and have decided to modify it. \nHere is the new, finalized scoring:\n\nPick 1st round winner, way off on games:\t2\n\" \" \" \" pick within one game:\t3\n\" \" \" \" pick exact games:\t4\n\nPick 2nd round winner, way off on games:\t4\n\" \" \" \" pick within one game:\t5\n\" \" \" \" pick exact games:\t7\n\nPick conference champ, way off on games:\t7\n\"\t\"\t\" pick within one game:\t10\n\"\t\"\t\" pick exact games:\t13\n\nPick Stanley Cup winner, way off on games:\t13\n\"\t\" \"\t \"\tpick within one game:\t17\n\"\t\" \"\t \"\tpick exact games:\t20\nPick loser in 7, series goes 7:\t\t\t2\nPick loser in 7, game 7 decided in OT:\t\t4\n\nThese are now final. Anyone needing a copy of the entry sheet, email me\nat the address below. \n\n--\n Keith Keller\t\t\t\tLET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!\n\t\t\t\t\t\tLET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!\n\tkkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu\t\tIVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!", "\nNot in Indiana: they showed a tape-delay of Chicago v Boston, because\nWGN had the rainout of the cubs. So WGN showed reruns of Hitchcock.\nNo hockey (at least in this part of the state).\n\nGo Aeros!", "\nNo, Fuhr's 5 rings out sparkle Errey's. And doesn't Bob have 2 rings?", "\nThe FAN is an okay Sports Radio station, but doesn't come close to\nthe ULTIMATE in Sports Radio, 610 WIP in Philadelphia. The signal\nmight not be as powerful, but then again only stations in New York\nfeel \"obligated\" to pollute everyone else's airwaves with a bunch of\nhoodlum Mets fans complaining 24 hours a day. WIP took two of your\nbest sports jockeys too, Jody MacDonald and Steve Fredericks. 610\nWIP is rockin with sports talk from 5:30 AM till midnight, check it\nout anytime your within a few hours of Philadelphia. If I'm not\nmistaken, WIP has the highest sports talk ratings in the nation?\n\n-Rob", "\nYes, but as has been mentioned many times before, the Islanders play at\nthe talent level of their opponent. Since Hartford is pitiful, the\nIslanders played pitiful. Since Pittsburgh is great, the Isles will most\nlikely play great. This is most likely due to inexperience and very poor\nshooting. To Greg: yes, I have noticed that the Islanders couldn't hit\nthe broad side of a barn with the puck if they were two feet in front of\nit. Does anyone have shooting percentages? I don't know if that would\nhelp, since they often miss the net completely, but it might shed some\nlight on the subject.\n\nAnd, my playoff pool is running!!! Exact rules to be posted tomorrow, but\ndon't hesitate to send in picks!!!\n\n--\n Keith Keller\t\t\t\tLET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!\n\t\t\t\t\t\tLET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!\n\tkkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu\t\tIVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!", "\nso you want to decrease players' salaries?\n\nso you want to increase owners' salaries?\n\nthe two are equivalent.", "Babe Ruth's lifetime pitching stats (selected):\n\n94-46, .671. 2.28 ERA. 163 G, 107 CG, 17 SHO, 10.6 RAT.\n\nBest year: 1916, Bos: 23-12, 1.75 ERA (led league) or\n 1917, Bos: 24-13, 2.01 ERA", "\n\nHave a look at Ed Belfour.\n\n\nBelfour kicked Gerrard Gallant when the Wings played the 'Hawks\na couple of weeks ago. No penalty. No review. No suspension.\nThis was after he attacked Bob Probert in the previous period.\nHe was penalized for that.\n\n\nLikewise Belfour. Too bad he goes down so much! :-)\n", "So what is your definition of \"interfering with the fielder taking the throw\"?\n\nThe rule book certainly doesn't have a definiton or clarification, so it's\npossible to interpret the rule as saying that if the catcher has to alter\nhis throw to avoid hitting the batter-runner, then again we have interference.\nYou know, it seems that there is no way to apply this rule justly--if the\ncatcher (or the pitcher, say Rob Dibble, for example) throws toward first\nand hits the runner running inside the baseline, the fielder takes the chance\nof being ejected. Therefore he probably would throw around the runner or\n(your scenario) above him.\n\nYou should note that in our American Legion League, (which uses MLB rules) we\ninterpret the rule to say in this very circumstance there IS interference\nper rule 7.09.", "\n\nno kidding...just ask the White Sox...\n\ntoo bad, really...\n\n-John Neuharth", "\n\n\nAnd he pitched many not-so-outstanding ballgames, too.\n\nJack essentially pitched a lot of .500 ball last year. This certainly\nisn't irrelevant, and iif you replace Morris with replacement level quality\nthe Blue Jays might not win.\n\nRe leadership, I don't see it. If the leadership effect is there for\na starting pitcher, you would expect to see its primary effect on the\npitching staff. You would expect to see the rest of the staff improve.\nInstead, the rest of the staff declined.\n\nYou can make a reasonable argument for Winfield providing leadership;\nthe offense picked up considerably from its effectiveness the previous\nyear. I'm not saying I buy that, but at least that argument makes\ninternal sense.\n\nGreg \n\n", "Any more news on Steve's status since he lost the starting job\nwould be appreciated", "\n \n Or you may be posting this WAY TOO EARLY and be eating your words by\n mid-season. C'mon, the Phillies haven't proved anything yet. Atlanta\n was similar to the Phils 2 years ago. They sucked. They started having\n a good year, but didn't get any respect until they actually won the\n division. (which is how it should be) So until the Phils AT LEAST \n have a good year, not just a good 2 weeks, they won't get any respect\n either. BTW, Atlanta's .188 BA is actually a compliment to how good\n the Braves really are. Their record is 6-3. Can you imagine the Phils\n record if they were batting .188? hahahaha. And Atlanta's hitting will\n improve dramatically. \n No, I'm not a Braves fan. Just defending a good team. \n Orin.\n Bradley U.\n\n", "\nThese new rule changes are great! However, I think that your rules are\nMUCH too complicated. How will the normal average fan be able to count\nhow many fouls a player has? And then we would even have to remember the\nnames of the players, in order to determine who drew the foul! And, of\ncourse, there will have to be new \"sub-positions\", like the power center\nwho just sits in the slot until the (blue, of course) puck comes near him,\nand the \"shooting defenseman\" and the \"point defenseman\". Finally, we'll\nbe able to keep stats on the best and the worst penalty-shot takers. \nSince almost everyone on the ice will be getting fouled, we'll be able to\nsee Ulf Samuellson (sp?) and Tie Domi miss penalty shots like crazy. \n\n;-) ;-) ;-)\n\n--\n Keith Keller\t\t\t\tLET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!\n\t\t\t\t\t\tLET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!\n\tkkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu\t\tIVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!", "Tigers' manager Sparky Anderson gets his 2,000th career win as moments ago,\nthe Tigers completed a two game sweep over the Oakland A's at Tiger Stadium\nby beating the A's 3-2. Here are the highlights:\n\n\n\t\t\t\tR H E \n Oakland\t\t2 9 0\n\t Detroit 3 7 1\n\nChad Krueter scored Skeeter Barnes from 1st with an RBI double in the \nbottom of the ninth against none other than Dennis Eckersley to give the\nTigers the victory. Barnes also had an RBI single to score Thurmond to\ntie the score in the ninth, also off Eckersley (sp?).\n\nThe A's got their runs on an RBI single by McGwire in the 1st and a solo\nhomer by Reuben Sierra in the 6th. Deer doubled home Kirk Gibson in the\n7th for the other Tiger run.\n\nJohn Doherty pitched another strong game for the Tigers, once again lasting\nthrough the seventh inning. He was relieved by Bolton and then David Haas\nin the 8th, and Haas got the win. Bobby Witt started for the A's, and was\nreplaced by Honeycutt in the 6th, followed by Goose Gossage in the 8th, and\nfinally Eckersly in the 9th. Doherty gave up both of the A's runs, while\nWitt gave up the first Tiger run and Eckerseley gave up the last two.\n\nIn the post game interview (on WJR radio in Detroit), Sparky Anderson said\nits one of the few times he's gotten emotional in his managing career. It\nwas a big moment for him, and I'm sure all of us Tiger fans are unanimously\nvery happy for him. And what a way to get number 2,000!.\n\nConsidering the circumstances, I think it might be appropriate to say:\n\n WOOF! Go Tigers!", "\nThere's a blurb in the STATS Scoreboard about this, and though I don't have\nthe book with me here, my memory is that the best at hitting sac flies were\nfar below this 60% number.", "\n\nIn this morning's paper (or was it on the radio?), Vizquel was quoted as\nsaying that he could have fielded the ball with his glove and still\neasily thrown out Riles, that he barehanded it instead so as to make the\nfinal play more memorable. Seems a litle cocky to me, but he made it\nwork so he's entitled.\n-- \nDoug Dudgeon Dept. of Chemical Engineering, BF-10\ndudgeon@opus.cheme.washington.edu University of Washington, Seattle", "only\nappreciated.\n\n\nPierre Turgeon, formely of the Sabres and now of the Isles wears #77 (at \nleast he did in Buffalo ...)", "\n\n\n\nWe already got him under Pitchers, Overrated, Jewish.\n\n\nProbably. Is SHirley P still alive? Just wondering.", "I watched the final inning of Bosio's no-hitter with several people at\nwork. After Vizquel made that barehanded grab of the chopper up the\nmiddle, someone remarked that if he had fielded it with his glove, he\nwouldn't have had time to throw Riles out. Yet, the throw beat Riles\nby about two steps. I wonder how many others who watched the final out\nthink Vizquel had no choice but to make the play with his bare hand.\nDoes anybody think Vizquel was wrong to field the ball barehanded? And\nif he failed to field it cleanly, would it (or should it) have been an\nerror or a hit? (Judging from Bosio's grimace when the ball bounced\npast him, he must have thought it would go through for a hit.) Whether\nVizquel was right or wrong, he certainly made one hell of a play.\n\n\n\n--\n--------------------------\nPhil Brown |\naka pb6755@csc.albany.edu |", "\nNo. I do not find this conceivable. I also cannot conceive of the\npossibility that there is any hypothetical team which Morris would\nhelp more than Clemens.\n\n\nGiven your premise, yes. But you are alone in your ability to\nconceive of that premise.", "Here is the OPI (Offensive Production Index) for all NL players with at\nleast 10 at-bats.\n\nIt is early in the season so there are some high numbers. Barry Bonds\nfinished last season at 0.795.\n\nI welcome comments and suggestions.\n\nKevin\n\nLeague OPI: 0.410\nLeague BA: 0.252\nLeague SLG: 0.375\nLeague OBA: 0.321\n\nRank Player OPI BA SLG OBA\n-----------------------------------------------------\n1 Phi,daulton 1.101 0.333 0.875 0.515\n2 Phi,kruk 1.069 0.429 0.821 0.529\n3 Cub,grace 1.007 0.452 0.742 0.514\n4 Cub,may 0.931 0.389 0.889 0.421\n5 Col,boston 0.888 0.545 0.545 0.545\n6 Pit,bell 0.873 0.429 0.714 0.467\n7 Col,galarraga 0.867 0.458 0.708 0.458\n8 StL,pena 0.833 0.400 0.600 0.516\n9 StL,zeile 0.811 0.440 0.560 0.500\n10 Cin,mitchell 0.810 0.429 0.643 0.467\n11 Mon,lansing 0.792 0.419 0.677 0.438\n12 Pit,slaught 0.754 0.474 0.526 0.474\n13 Mon,vanderwal 0.746 0.389 0.556 0.476\n14 NYM,tfernandez 0.709 0.300 0.400 0.500\n15 SnF,martinez 0.697 0.300 0.400 0.500\n16 Hou,bagwell 0.695 0.367 0.567 0.424\n17 Col,hayes 0.686 0.333 0.667 0.364\n18 Col,eyoung 0.682 0.333 0.500 0.407\n19 Mon,alou 0.675 0.371 0.600 0.389\n20 Cin,milligan 0.659 0.333 0.375 0.515\n21 Phi,dykstra 0.646 0.214 0.571 0.405\n22 SnF,bonds 0.624 0.280 0.680 0.333\n22 Flo,conine 0.624 0.393 0.393 0.469\n24 SnD,plantier 0.603 0.286 0.571 0.375\n25 Hou,gonzalez 0.596 0.296 0.667 0.296\n26 Hou,anthony 0.594 0.320 0.480 0.414\n27 Col,cole 0.579 0.318 0.409 0.400\n28 Atl,sanders 0.576 0.357 0.643 0.357\n29 Mon,berry 0.566 0.273 0.273 0.500\n30 Cub,sosa 0.558 0.303 0.545 0.343\n31 StL,jefferies 0.551 0.269 0.692 0.296\n32 Pit,vanslyke 0.549 0.296 0.444 0.387\n33 *Montreal 0.548 0.312 0.490 0.367\n34 Los,butler 0.545 0.296 0.333 0.457\n35 Mon,grissom 0.542 0.333 0.455 0.371\n36 Pit,king 0.536 0.308 0.346 0.438\n37 SnD,gwynn 0.533 0.280 0.400 0.379\n38 Pit,merced 0.532 0.300 0.400 0.391\n39 NYM,murray 0.521 0.308 0.462 0.357\n40 StL,gilkey 0.514 0.312 0.438 0.353\n41 NYM,bonilla 0.507 0.292 0.417 0.370\n42 SnD,walters 0.501 0.300 0.500 0.333\n43 Cub,wilson 0.497 0.323 0.452 0.344\n44 Flo,weiss 0.492 0.261 0.348 0.433\n45 *Philadelphia 0.487 0.243 0.431 0.348\n46 Atl,justice 0.480 0.207 0.448 0.361\n47 *Pittsburgh 0.479 0.292 0.428 0.351\n48 StL,osmith 0.476 0.310 0.448 0.355\n49 Phi,incaviglia 0.473 0.250 0.500 0.308\n50 Pit,young 0.470 0.286 0.500 0.310\n51 *StLouis 0.467 0.275 0.445 0.344\n52 *Colorado 0.459 0.287 0.426 0.327\n53 NYM,hundley 0.458 0.300 0.450 0.333\n54 NYM,orsulak 0.454 0.357 0.429 0.400\n55 SnF,benjamin 0.440 0.200 0.500 0.273\n56 Atl,gant 0.438 0.214 0.464 0.333\n56 *NYMets 0.438 0.261 0.345 0.356\n58 *Houston 0.436 0.260 0.415 0.318\n59 Mon,pitcher 0.434 0.312 0.375 0.353\n60 Phi,morandini 0.433 0.240 0.360 0.321\n61 Hou,cedeno 0.427 0.280 0.440 0.308\n62 Cin,sabo 0.423 0.226 0.452 0.273\n63 SnF,manwaring 0.413 0.261 0.435 0.292\n64 *SnFrancisco 0.412 0.253 0.396 0.315\n65 Atl,blauser 0.409 0.276 0.310 0.364\n66 SnF,thompson 0.408 0.278 0.389 0.316\n66 Hou,caminiti 0.408 0.259 0.481 0.286\n68 Flo,barberie 0.405 0.267 0.267 0.371\n69 Mon,cordero 0.400 0.276 0.345 0.323\n70 SnD,sheffield 0.397 0.241 0.448 0.267\n71 Los,karros 0.392 0.259 0.296 0.355\n72 SnF,williams 0.391 0.226 0.452 0.250\n72 SnD,mcgriff 0.391 0.192 0.385 0.276\n74 Flo,destrade 0.390 0.267 0.333 0.333\n75 Col,girardi 0.388 0.238 0.381 0.304\n76 Atl,bream 0.386 0.182 0.409 0.250\n77 Mon,wood 0.385 0.200 0.300 0.333\n78 Flo,santiago 0.384 0.200 0.360 0.286\n79 Phi,thompson 0.383 0.227 0.273 0.320\n80 SnF,clayton 0.382 0.345 0.379 0.345\n80 Los,piazza 0.382 0.304 0.391 0.333\n82 SnD,bell 0.378 0.273 0.364 0.304\n83 Los,wallach 0.374 0.200 0.400 0.273\n84 Cin,larkin 0.367 0.281 0.281 0.361\n85 Pit,garcia 0.366 0.273 0.318 0.304\n85 *Cincinnati 0.366 0.256 0.319 0.326\n87 NYM,coleman 0.363 0.259 0.259 0.310\n88 NYM,kent 0.362 0.190 0.286 0.320\n89 StL,whiten 0.361 0.240 0.360 0.321\n90 Cin,roberts 0.359 0.278 0.278 0.333\n90 *Cubs 0.359 0.236 0.366 0.277\n92 SnF,lewis 0.354 0.227 0.364 0.261\n92 Hou,finley 0.354 0.214 0.250 0.312\n92 Col,clark 0.354 0.250 0.350 0.286\n95 Los,pitcher 0.350 0.286 0.357 0.286\n95 *SnDiego 0.350 0.219 0.357 0.268\n97 Atl,lemke 0.345 0.200 0.240 0.333\n98 *LosAngeles 0.339 0.221 0.275 0.311\n99 SnF,mcgee 0.335 0.267 0.300 0.333\n99 *Atlanta 0.335 0.199 0.308 0.287\n101 Cin,sanders 0.334 0.267 0.333 0.290\n101 Cin,oliver 0.334 0.208 0.208 0.345\n103 SnD,gardner 0.332 0.238 0.333 0.273\n103 Los,reed 0.332 0.276 0.276 0.323\n105 Phi,hollins 0.327 0.226 0.290 0.294\n106 *Florida 0.326 0.226 0.268 0.311\n107 Los,davis 0.325 0.188 0.219 0.278\n108 Atl,pendleton 0.322 0.212 0.273 0.297\n109 SnF,clark 0.316 0.161 0.290 0.257\n110 Los,strawberry 0.314 0.111 0.185 0.314\n110 Hou,biggio 0.314 0.179 0.214 0.303\n112 Phi,bell 0.304 0.182 0.364 0.217\n113 Flo,magadan 0.303 0.182 0.182 0.357\n114 StL,pagnozzi 0.299 0.158 0.316 0.238\n115 Pit,martin 0.295 0.167 0.417 0.167\n115 Col,bichette 0.295 0.222 0.389 0.222\n117 Hou,taubensee 0.294 0.190 0.333 0.227\n118 Mon,bolick 0.292 0.250 0.312 0.250\n119 Flo,pose 0.291 0.258 0.323 0.303\n120 Mon,cianfrocco 0.287 0.188 0.375 0.188\n121 NYM,johnson 0.274 0.136 0.136 0.296\n122 Cin,kelly 0.272 0.250 0.333 0.270\n123 Atl,nixon 0.256 0.185 0.222 0.241\n124 NYM,pitcher 0.255 0.167 0.250 0.231\n125 Pit,pitcher 0.250 0.222 0.278 0.222\n126 Cub,buechle 0.231 0.154 0.192 0.241\n127 StL,lankford 0.225 0.133 0.133 0.316\n128 Atl,olson 0.224 0.150 0.150 0.261\n129 Cub,vizcaino 0.217 0.148 0.259 0.179\n130 Cub,sanchez 0.212 0.188 0.219 0.212\n131 Phi,duncan 0.202 0.214 0.214 0.214\n132 Los,offerman 0.198 0.182 0.182 0.250\n133 SnF,pitcher 0.197 0.176 0.235 0.176\n134 Mon,laker 0.183 0.133 0.267 0.133\n135 Phi,chamberlain 0.180 0.111 0.111 0.200\n136 SnD,pitcher 0.164 0.182 0.182 0.182\n136 Atl,pitcher 0.164 0.182 0.182 0.182\n138 Phi,pitcher 0.159 0.111 0.167 0.158\n139 Cub,maldonado 0.150 0.105 0.158 0.150\n140 Flo,felix 0.148 0.172 0.207 0.172\n141 Cin,espy 0.141 0.100 0.100 0.182\n142 StL,jordan 0.140 0.105 0.211 0.105\n143 Atl,berryhill 0.128 0.091 0.182 0.091\n144 Cub,pitcher 0.126 0.111 0.111 0.158\n145 SnD,shipley 0.122 0.087 0.174 0.087\n146 StL,pitcher 0.106 0.125 0.125 0.125\n147 Hou,pitcher 0.053 0.067 0.067 0.067\n147 Col,benavides 0.053 0.067 0.067 0.067\n147 Cin,pitcher 0.053 0.067 0.067 0.067\n150 Cub,wilkins 0.038 0.000 0.000 0.067\n151 Flo,pitcher 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000\n151 Col,pitcher 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000\n\n 0.74*1B + 1.28*2B + 1.64*3B + 2.25*HR + 0.53*BB + 0.34*(SB-2*CS)\nOPI = ----------------------------------------------------------------\n AB - H\n\nBA = H / AB\n\nSLG = (H + 2B + 2*3B + 3*HR) / AB\n\nOBA = (H + BB) / (AB + BB)", "Us easterners who have newspapers with editors\nunsympathetic to playoff pools, often don't get\nsummaries from west coast games since they\nfinish too late at night for the morning edition.\n\nI (and I'm sure others too) would greatly appreciate\nit if scoring summaries of west coast playoff games\ncould be posted to this group right away.\nbasically, all we need are goal scorers and assists,\ndon't bother with times, penalties, shots etc...\n\nthis would make a lot of pool-obsessed people very\nhappy.\n\nI guess with the Senators out golfing now, the \nlocal papers have lost interest. ;-)\n\nthanks.\n\nkd.\n", "\nThe other Jewish HOF'er is Rod Carew (who converted). \n\nLowenstein is Jewish, as well as Montana's only representative to the\nmajor leagues.\n\nUndeserving Cy Young award winner Steve Stone is Jewish. Between Stone,\nKoufax, Ken Holtzman (? might have the wrong pitcher, I'm thinking of the\none who threw a no-hitter in both the AL and NL), and Big Ed Reulbach,\nthat's quite a starting rotation. Moe Berg can catch. Harry Steinfeldt,\nthe 3b in the Tinkers-Evers-Chance infield.\n\nIs Stanky Jewish? Or is that just a \"Dave Cohen\" kinda misinterpretation?\nWhatever, doesn't look like he stuck around the majors too long.", ": It is meaningless to compare one player's plus/minus statistic with\n: another players' out of the context of the role and the playing time\n: of the players involved. \n\n: To compare Jagr's and Francis's plus/minus is ridiculous and absurd...\n\n: Gerald\n\nThank you for putting this in perspective!\n", "\nAs far as I can tell, he was right next to Bassen!\n\nDon't you guys love it when people like me come out of the woodwork...8^)", "\n\n\nAvery was the #2 overall pick by the Braves, behind Mark Lewis (I think) in\n1988. John Smoltz came over to the Braves from the Tigers, but was developed\nby the Braves. Jeff Blauser isn't a bad player.\n-- \nDale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Baseball fanatic", "cdash@moet.cs.colorado.edu (Charles Shub) writes...\n\nWhat really irritated me was that they kept switching back and forth\nbetween baseball and hockey after they stated that they couldn't show\nthe overtime period. I turned back to ESPN around 11 and it was hockey.\nGreat, I pulled up a chair and watched, then the first overtime period \nended and they went back to baseball before coming back to hockey\nsomething like 30 minutes later. Are they trying to alienate both\nhockey and baseball viewers at the same time. As for Martinsville,\nI wonder why they even bothered to sign up for it when they it was\nno secret that it coincided with the draft. Why not let TNN broadcast\nit ?\n\n\nGeorge", "\n\n\nI think Jagr did he probably had a better point per minute ice time- stats\ndon't exist to properly analyze this and he had a substancially better +/-.\n\n\n\n+/- is a useful statistic. If a player is on the ice when his team scores a\nlot of goals and only allows a few goals, he must be doing something right.\nIt is especially useful to compare between teammates- as they play for the\nsame team and should have roughly similar +/- ratings if they are equally\ngood players. It can be adjusted- with varying degrees of success to compare\nbetween players on different teams.\n\nI agree it would be nice for the NHL to keep more statistics- but how useful\nare the ones that you suggest?? Total ice time would be very useful- it is\na missing stat in Jagr vs Francis arguments from before. Somehow measuring\nthe quality of ice time as you suggest would be useless. It would be a\nbetter stat for evaluating coaching- ie are the players given quality ice\ntime actually their talented ones? A very good player could be given low\namounts of quality ice time because of team depth or a stupid coach who\ndoesn't recognize his talent and a very bad player could be given lots of\nquality ice time because of a lack of team depth or a stupid coach that\nthinks he is an effective player. This stat would be much more flawed than\n+/- and almost no conclusions could be drawn regarding player talent.\n\n+/- is a useful stat. It is quite useful in evaluating player talent.\nYou are the one displaying ignorance because of your unwillingness to see\nthat being on the ice when goals are scored but not when they are allowed\nis a very positive thing- and should be evaluated as such.", "\nto take this to its, er, \"logical\" conclusion, it is impossible to\nascertain whether or not i am a better hitter than roberto alomar,\nor a better pitcher than juan guzman, or a better center fielder than\ndevon white. after all, if i were on the blue jays, can you really\nprove that they wouldn't have won the world series in both 1991 AND\n1992?\n\nwhile i thank you, mister maynard, for your faith in my atheletic\nprowess, i can assure you that your faith is misplaced.", "1992-93 Los Angeles Kings Schedule/Results\n\nTV:\n---\n2 preseason games, 82 of 84 regular season and all playoffs on TV.\n\n (PT)= Prime Ticket, (5) = KTLA Channel 5, (7) = ABC Channel 7 - playoffs\n\nRadio:\n------\nAll regular and preseason games broadcast on the Kings radio network.\n\n Southern California \tXTRA - 690am (flagship)\n Simi Valley\t\tKWNK - 670am \n Ankorage, Alaska\tKBYR - 700am\n El Centro\t\tKAMP - 1430am\n Fairbanks, Alaska\tKIAK - 970am\n Hemet/Temecula\t\tKHSJ - 1320am\n Lancaster/Palmdale\tKAVL - 610am\n Palm Desert\t\tKNWZ - 1270am\n Paso Robles\t\tKPRL - 1230am\n Reno, Nevada\t\tKPLY - 1270am\n Sacramento\t\tKSAC - 1240am\n San Luis Obispo\tKKAL - 1280am\n Santa Clarita\t\tKBET - 1220am\n Las Vegas, Nevada \tKENO - 1460am\n\nPreseason:\n----------\nSeptember/October:\n18 LA 3 vs VAN 3 @ Vancouver - 12,357 (0-0-1, 1 pt)\n20 LA 5 vs PIT 2 @ Portland - 6,124 (1-0-1, 3 pts) (PT)\n23 LA 3 vs PIT 3 @ Tacoma - ? (1-0-2, 4 pts)\n24 LA 2 vs NYR 7 @ San Diego - 8,099 (1-1-2, 4 pts) (PT)\n26 LA 2 vs NYR 6 @ Phoenix - 8,977 (1-2-2, 4 pts)\n27 LA 4 vs SJ 2 @ Sacramento - 7,950 (2-2-2, 6 pts)\n30 LA 2 vs VAN 5 @ The Forum - 10,250 (2-3-2, 6 pts)\n03 LA 8 vs SJ 8 @ The Forum - 12,005 (3-3-2, 8 pts)\n -- --\nTotal 29 36\n\nRegular Season:\n---------------\nOctober:\n06 LA 5 @ Calgary 4 (OT) - 19,461 ( 1- 0- 0, 2 pts) (PT)\n08 LA 3 vs Detroit 5 - 16,005 ( 1- 1- 0, 2 pts) (PT)\n10 LA 6 vs Winnipeg 3 - 14,509 ( 2- 1- 0, 4 pts) (PT)\n13 LA 2 vs San Jose 1 - 14,320 ( 3- 1- 0, 6 pts) (PT)\n15 LA 4 vs Calgary 0 - 15,133 ( 4- 1- 0, 8 pts) (PT)\n17 LA 8 vs Boston 6 - 16,005 ( 5- 1- 0, 10 pts) (PT)\n20 LA 2 @ Calgary 6 - 19,169 ( 5- 2- 0, 10 pts) (5)\n23 LA 2 @ Winnipeg 4 - 12,924 ( 5- 3- 0, 10 pts) (PT)\n24 LA 5 @ Minnesota 5 - 15,174 ( 5- 3- 1, 11 pts) (5)\n27 LA 4 @ NY Islanders 3 - 10,259 ( 6- 3- 1, 13 pts) (PT)\n29 LA 3 @ Boston 8 - 14,448 ( 6- 4- 1, 13 pts) (PT)\n31 LA 7 @ Hartford 1 - 9,244 ( 7- 4- 1, 15 pts) (5)\n -- -- -----------------\nOct. 51 46 7- 4- 1, 15 pts\n\nNovember:\n05 LA 5 vs New Jersey 2 - 14,592 ( 8- 4- 1, 17 pts) (PT)\n07 LA 5 vs Buffalo 2 - 16,005 ( 9- 4- 1, 19 pts) (PT)\n08 LA 11 @ San Jose 4 - 11,089 (10- 4- 1, 21 pts) (no tv)\n10 LA 4 @ Winnipeg 4 - 12,831 (10- 4- 2, 22 pts) (PT)\n12 LA 7 vs Vancouver 4 - 15,486 (11- 4- 2, 24 pts) (PT)\n14 LA 6 vs Edmonton 2 - 16,005 (12- 4- 2, 26 pts) (PT)\n16 LA 3 @ Vancouver 6 - 15,896 (12- 5- 2, 26 pts) (PT)\n17 LA 0 @ San Jose 6 - 11,089 (12- 6- 2, 26 pts) (PT)\n19 LA 4 vs Chicago 1 - 16,005 (13- 6- 2, 28 pts) (PT)\n21 LA 6 vs Toronto 4 - 16,005 (14- 6- 2, 30 pts) (PT)\n25 LA 3 @ Edmonton 1 - 13,636 (15- 6- 2, 32 pts) (no tv)\n27 LA 5 @ Detroit 3 - 19,875 (16- 6- 2, 34 pts) (PT)\n28 LA 2 @ Toronto 3 - 15,720 (16- 7- 2, 34 pts) (PT)\n -- -- -----------------\nNov. 61 42 9- 3- 1, 19 pts\nYear 112 88\n\nDecember:\n01 LA 6 @ Chicago 3 - 16,292 (17- 7- 2, 36 pts) at Milwaukee (PT)\n03 LA 5 vs Pittsburgh 3 - 16,005 (18- 7- 2, 38 pts) (PT)\n05 LA 7 vs Hartford 3 - 16,005 (19- 7- 2, 40 pts) (PT)\n08 LA 5 vs Montreal 5 - 12,276 (19- 7- 3, 41 pts) at Phoenix (PT)\n10 LA 4 vs Quebec 5 - 15,221 (19- 8- 3, 41 pts) (PT)\n12 LA 6 vs St Louis 3 - 16,005 (20- 8- 3, 43 pts) (PT)\n15 LA 2 vs Tampa Bay 3 - 15,753 (20- 9- 3, 43 pts) (PT)\n18 LA 5 @ Edmonton 5 - 15,257 (20- 9- 4, 44 pts) (5)\n19 LA 3 @ Calgary 5 - 20,214 (20-10- 4, 44 pts) (PT)\n22 LA 2 vs Vancouver 6 - 16,005 (20-11- 4, 44 pts) (PT)\n26 LA 2 @ San Jose 7 - 11,089 (20-12- 4, 44 pts) (5)\n29 LA 2 vs Philadelphia 10 - 16,005 (20-13- 4, 44 pts) (PT)\n31 LA 0 @ Vancouver 4 - 16,150 (20-14- 4, 44 pts) (PT)\n -- -- -----------------\nDec. 49 62 4- 7- 2, 10 pts\nYear 161 150\n\nJanuary:\n02 LA 5 vs Montreal 5 - 16,005 (20-14- 5, 45 pts) (PT)\n06 LA 3 vs Tampa Bay 6 - 16,005 (20-15- 5, 45 pts) (PT)\n08 LA 3 @ Winnipeg 6 - 14,036 (20-16- 5, 45 pts) (5)\n10 LA 5 @ Chicago 4 - 17,705 (21-16- 5, 47 pts) (5)\n12 LA 3 @ Ottawa 2 - 10,500 (22-16- 5, 49 pts) (PT)\n14 LA 1 @ New Jersey 7 - 13,586 (22-17- 5, 49 pts) (PT)\n16 LA 2 vs Winnipeg 5 - 16,005 (22-18- 5, 49 pts) (PT)\n19 LA 5 @ Edmonton 4 - 16,686 (23-18- 5, 51 pts) (PT)\n21 LA 4 vs Vancouver 5 - 16,005 (23-19- 5, 51 pts) (PT)\n23 LA 3 vs NY Rangers 8 - 16,005 (23-20- 5, 51 pts) (PT)\n26 LA 7 vs San Jose 1 - 16,005 (24-20- 5, 53 pts) (PT)\n28 LA 1 vs Calgary 2 - 16,005 (24-21- 5, 53 pts) (PT)\n30 LA 2 vs Chicago 2 - 16,005 (24-21- 6, 54 pts) (PT)\n -- -- -----------------\nJan. 44 57 4- 7- 2, 10 pts\nYear 205 207\n\nFebruary:\n02 LA 2 @ Quebec 3 - 14,843 (24-22- 6, 54 pts) (PT)\n03 LA 2 @ Montreal 7 - 17,164 (24-23- 6, 54 pts) (PT)\n09 LA 3 vs Edmonton 6 - 16,005 (24-24- 6, 54 pts) (PT)\n11 LA 6 vs Detroit 6 - 16,005 (24-24- 7, 55 pts) (PT)\n13 LA 3 vs Washington 10 - 16,005 (24-25- 7, 55 pts) (PT)\n15 LA 3 vs Vancouver 0 - 16,005 (25-25- 7, 57 pts) (PT)\n17 LA 10 @ Minnesota 5 - 14,911 (26-25- 7, 59 pts) (PT)\n18 LA 2 @ Chicago 7 - 17,597 (26-26- 7, 59 pts) (PT)\n20 LA 3 @ Washington 7 - 17,812 (26-27- 7, 59 pts) (PT)\n22 LA 5 @ Tampa Bay 2 - 10,425 (27-27- 7, 61 pts) (PT)\n25 LA 0 @ St Louis 3 - 13,473 (27-28- 7, 61 pts) (PT)\n27 LA 2 vs Toronto 5 - 16,005 (27-29- 7, 61 pts) (PT)\n -- -- -----------------\nFeb. 41 61 3- 8- 1, 7 pts\nYear 246 268\n\nMarch:\n02 LA 6 vs Calgary 2 - 16,005 (28-29- 7, 63 pts) (PT)\n04 LA 8 vs Ottawa 6 - 16,005 (29-29- 7, 65 pts) (PT)\n06 LA 6 vs Edmonton 1 - 16,005 (30-29- 7, 67 pts) (PT)\n09 LA 3 @ NY Rangers 4 - 18,200 (30-30- 7, 67 pts) (PT)\n11 LA 3 @ Pittsburgh 4 - 16,164 (30-31- 7, 67 pts) (PT)\n13 @ Philadelphia - Postponed after 1 period (1-1) due to weather. Resch for 4/1\n14 @ Buffalo - Postponed due to weather. Rescheduled for 3/15.\n15 LA 4 @ Buffalo 2 - 13,799 (31-31- 7, 69 pts) (PT)\n16 LA 8 vs Winnipeg 4 - 16,005 (32-31- 7, 71 pts) (PT)\n18 LA 7 vs NY Islanders 4 - 16,005 (33-31- 7, 73 pts) (PT)\n20 LA 3 vs St Louis 2 - 16,005 (34-31- 7, 75 pts) (PT)\n24 LA 2 @ Vancouver 6 - 16,150 (34-32- 7, 75 pts) (5)\n26 LA 4 @ Edmonton 1 - 17,503 (35-32- 7, 77 pts) (5)\n28 LA 3 @ Winnipeg 3 - 15,566 (35-32- 8, 78 pts) (PT)\n29 LA 9 @ Detroit 3 - 19,875 (36-32- 8, 80 pts) (5)\n31 LA 5 @ Toronto 5 - 15,720 (36-32- 9, 81 pts) (PT)\n -- -- -----------------\nMar. 71 47 9- 3- 2, 20 pts\nYear 317 315\n\nApril:\n01 LA 3 @ Philadelphia 1 - 17,380 (37-32- 9, 83 pts) (PT) rescheduled\n03 LA 0 vs Minnesota 3 - 16,005 (37-33- 9, 83 pts) (PT)\n06 LA 3 vs Calgary 3 - 16,005 (37-33-10, 84 pts) (PT)\n08 LA 2 vs San Jose 1 - 16,005 (38-33-10, 86 pts) (PT)\n10 LA 3 @ San Jose 2 (OT) - 11,089 (39-33-10, 88 pts) (PT)\n13 LA 4 @ Vancouver 7 - 16,150 (39-34-10, 88 pts) (PT)\n15 LA 6 vs Vancouver 8 - 16,005 (39-35-10, 88 pts) (PT)\n -- -- -----------------\nApr. 21 25 3- 3- 1, 7 pts\nYear 338 340 39-35-10, 88 pts - 3rd Smythe, \n 11th overall\n\nPlayoffs:\n---------\nApril:\n18 @ Calgary - 12:00 noon (7)\n21 @ Calgary - 6:30 pm (PT)\n23 vs Calgary - 7:30 pm (PT)\n25 vs Calgary - 12:00 noon (7)**\n*27 @ Calgary - 6:30 pm (PT)\n*29 vs Calgary - 7:30 pm (PT)\n\nMay:\n*01 @ Calgary - 6:30 pm (PT)\n\nall times listed are Pacific Time.\n*if necessary.\n** may be shown on ABC, if televised by Prime Ticket, time is 7:30 pm.\n===============================================================================\nStan Willis (willis@empire.dnet.hac.com)\nnet contact: L.A. Kings", "For updated playoff updates (scores, stats, summaries)\ne-mail me. (mmilitzo@skidmore.edu) with the subject STATS.\n", "\n\nWell, if things were different and I had my way, the headline would be: \"NHL,\nEuropean Division regular season game: Stockholm Storm vs. Helsinki Tornado\n4-3...\" Two games against every North American-based team (46 in all), and this\nmight have been the ninth and final regular season encounter between Helsinki\nand Stockholm. The remaining 27 games would involve Paris, Dortmund, Milan...\nA nice dream.\n\nMARCU$", "A few weeks ago I posted about the Phillies team personalities. Did anyone see the ESPN feature on the Phils on Monday Night. John Kruk had a great line. He was talking about people on the team always playing and not sitting out because of a minor injury. He said if they do they know we'll kick their ass. The \ntime I saw in was in the afternoon and it was not bleeped. When I saw it at\nthey bleeped \"ass.\" Mitch Williams talked about the team being a bunch of \nthrowaways from other teams, and that is why they are so close. Kruk said that\nthey all get along this year. Last year, he said, they hated the pitchers. I \nassume he was joking, but he always keeps a straight face when he talks. Oh,\nWhat a team!!!!!\n\nRob Koffler\n", " \n\nWell that's really great Pat. I guess since you've played a little you thereby \nqualify as an expert. Especially since you watch all the games on t.v. All \nthat qualifies you as is a armchair quarterback or a coach potato\n\nPat Walker", " \n \n \n\n\nSteve Dyer points out that Sharen was probably thinking of Sulfites. But\nthe question still stands.", "I know there's been a lot of talk about Jack Morris' horrible start,\nbut what about Dennis Martinez. Last I checked he's 0-3 with 6+ ERA.\nIs the ageless wonder finally showing his age? Does he usually start\noff the season so slowly? I know he plans to start tonight. I hope\nhe comes around....\n\nI would appreciate any feedback concerning outlook on rest of Dennis\nMartinez's season...\n\nThanks in advance,", "\n\nHow do you know they can be shortened by half-an-hour? Has anybody done a\nstudy to determine how much time is actually \"wasted\" -- say, in these A's\ngames?", "YAHOOOOOOOOO!\n\nThe Habs tied this sucker at 2 and the teams now head for Quebec\nCity to play game 5. BTW, final score was Habs 3-Nords 2.\n\nThe score might be a bit misleading. The Habs dominated the game\nfrom the 5:00 mark of the first and then on. The score should have\nbeen 8-2 if it weren't for some miraculous save from a Ron Hextall\n(bastard!). He's the reason the score was as close. Habs winning\ngoal was scored by Benoit Brunet at 1:07 of the 3rd.\n\nRoy had an OK game. He made the first save (one way or another)\nand the defense was there to clear any rebounds.\n\nThis just in, ESPN radio reports that the Bruins lost 6-5 in OT.\nYAHOOOOOOOOOOO!!! Those suckers got what they deserved.\n\nLife is just great!!!! Now if my finals would go just as well!\n\nNick (I'll take off my town crier hat now)\n", "In Detroit, the octopus is a symbol from the old days of the league. In\nthe era of the Original 6, four teams made the playoffs. To win the Cup,\na team had to win two seven-game series - in other words it took 8\nplayoff wins to win the Cup. The octopus (8 legs) has become a common\nDetroit symbol. Every year around playoff time people start sneaking\noctopus (octopi?) into the Joe Louis Arena and throwing them onto the ice.", "It is really annoying to see all of these\npredictions on the Net. Who really cares\nwho you think will win? Please stop with\nthe predictions, we all know the Caps are\ngoing to win the Cup, so let it go at that.\n", "Dear Ulf,\n\n\tWould you possibly consider helpiMontreal Canadiens fans everywhere\nby throwing a knee-check in the direction of Denis Savard during your upcoming\ngame against Montreal? We just can't seem to win WITH him!\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\tThanx alot,\n\t\t\t\t\t\tPete H.\n\n\n:-)\n", "To encourage the great tradition of Red Sox negativism, I am having a \ncontest to predict the magnitude of the Sox' fall from their current \nheights. You must decide first, whether the Sox will be at .500 again\nat any time during this year. Then you must predict either:\n\n(1) Their record the first time they're at .500, if they are, or\n\n(2) Their final record, if they stay above .500 the rest of the year.\n\nSo Valentine's earlier prediction would go as \"13-13\" (resend it if you \nwere serious, Val!).\n\nESPN pointed out last night that the last Sox start better than this was\nin 1952, when they finished 76-78, in sixth place.\n\nSo email me your guess, either at \"barring@cs.washington.edu\" or directly\nreplying to this post.\n\nEntries close 5 pm PDT on Wed 28 Apr 1993.", "\n\nDoes anyone know if there will be alternate games in cities where local\nbroadcast rights are being protected? I'd really love to see the Bruins a\ncouple times, and with this pro-Patrick bias shown by ESPN something tells me\nthat I will have to wait until the conference finals to see them :-}.\n\n-JPC\n \n-- ", "\nIn another post-game interview, LaRussa claimed that Sparky was \"the\nbest manager in basebal,\" explaining that to be part of the history\nof Sparky softened the blow of losing.\n\nGo Tigers!!!\n Tim\n\n Timothy Law Snyder\n Department of Computer Science\n Reiss 225\n Georgetown University\n Washington, DC 20057", "\nI re-read what I wrote and it didn't say exactly what I thought. \n\nSure the Pens are a better team. They've got size and the best skill players\nin the league. They've also got the best clutch goaltending. They're the \nbest team in the league.\n\nBut, my point was the Caps have not played to their ability level vs the\nPens since last year's choke. And that's the mental problem (the one they've\nhad for a number of years) I tried to point out. Spirit, mental preparedness,\nwill to win, whatever you want to call it, it's missing when the Caps play the\nPens. Actually, you're right - it won't make any difference.", "Oh really? I seem to remember this year's woofers consisting mainly of\nyourself and Roger. Boston fans were relatively quiet.\n\n\nI guess the concept of a fan who is not cocky is something you couldn't\npossible understand, eh?\n\n\nNah. I doubt you really would. You're just being a PROVOCATIVE SOB\nas usual with a large stick up your but. Of course, I mean that in the\nnicest way. :-) \n\nAnd just how much bragging did YOU do, \"wobbie,\" on r.s.b.c after \nUMASS!!! beat your Quakers?\n\nBTW. Congratulations should go to the Sabres. They are playing more\ndiciplined, and with more will to win. They deserve it.", "\n\nAs the Rangers found out in last year's playoffs, it's too late to\ntry line-juggling at this point.\n\ngld", "In the mist of the Rangers soap box (i.e. Captain neMesis-ier/ex-coach \nRoger Nebula bad blood bath) and with high hopes turned to new coach \nMr. Klean (Commissar Keenan)... I would like to know what procedures \nhockey teams use to select their captains (including A's). Are they \nselected by the coaching staff, do the players vote for a captain, or \nare they appointed by management?\n\nAnd, while we are on the subject, has a captain ever been traded, \nresigned, or been striped of his title during the season? Any other \nteam captain trivia would be appreciated.", "\n\n\nWoops! This is rec.sport.hockey! Not rec.sport.golf! Hope you check the\nnewsgroup header next time before posting!\n\nSteve\n", "\nYou, along with Mario Lemieux, must be from another planet. The only\ndifference is that Lemieux comes from the one with Geo. Washington, Abe\nLincoln (and many other great men and women of this world) whereas you come\nfrom the one with David Koresh. Yeah, Mario is good at drawing penalties,\nbut wouldn't you try do something (you do claim to play) to give your team\nan advantage? I don't remember Lemieux getting any diving penalties this\nyear, whereas many others did. Finally, Mario has NEVER complained about\nbeing hit. He knows it's part of the game; he gets back by dishing out an\neven bigger hit to the same guy or just scoring a few goals (or setting\nthem up.) Don't you have any compassion for a man who has gone through so\nmuch in his life?", "\nWales Conference, Adams Division, Semifinal\n\nI'm hoping for a Fuhr miracle, but I agree that Boston will likely win the\nseries. Goaltending is about equal, top offensive players are about equal\n(Mogilny-LaFontaine vs. Oates-Juneau), but Buffalo has no answer to Neely\n(not to imply that Neely is not a top offensive player btw, in fact he's one\nof my favourites even though he's a damn Bruin :) ). And the rest of the\nmatchup wrt lineup favours Boston anyway. But I think it will go six.\n\n\nAgreed here...but Montreal will be pushed to the limit. Is it just me, or\ndoes everything Montreal does in the playoffs come down to Roy? Go Habs!!\n\nFinal\n\nI can't predict a Montreal victory because I've been watching them play for\n6 weeks and IMO they severly need some tougher players, especially to play\nin the Garden. Last time they beat the B's 5-2 but Boston had a clear\nterritorial advantage; the victory was Roy's. At the same time, I can't\nbring myself to predict the possibility of a loss, so I'll just say I will\nnot be putting money on this series. :-)\n\n\n\nAgreed. NY doesn't have the goaltending to stop the onslaught, independent\nof the trouble they have given Pittsburgh this year. Pens in five, which is\ncredit to NY.\n\n\nAgreed here too, but I think it will go at least six. Jersey has a decent\nteam, and Washington has done poorly against the division this year.\n\n\nI think they will use Tabaracci more after Beaupre gets shelled. I don't\nthink it will go six either...*maybe* five.\n\n\nIf Pittsburgh plays Boston, IMO they win in likely five, possibly six. They\nown the Bruins. If they play Montreal, I think it will go to seven, and once\nagain I won't be putting money on the seventh game. I say seven because the\nHabs have played Pittsburgh very tough this season.\n\n\n\nChicago will win, but I think in at least six. Chicago is not that good,\nIMO. And remember that they take ridiculous numbers of penalties.\n\n\nVery true. The Leafs have much to be proud of, but they will soon find out\nwhy Montreal did so lousy in the playoffs. Toronto might win two or three \nat MLG though. Wings in six, maybe even seven.\n\n\nIt _will_ be a war...possibly the most intense playoff series of them all. \nAnd yes, I think Detroit will win. Probert will have to come up big though.\n\n\n\nOur first disagreement. Canucks are playing like shit. They don't use their\nsize *at* *all*, which may explain why they get hammered 8-1 by a team\nchasing them (Calgary)....Winnipeg in six.\n\n\nThis is also tough for me to call, because I haven't seen the Smythe enough. \nI don't think Roberts will be well enough to figure in, Coffey is a\nnon-issue, who cares what Carson has done before, and *never* underestimate\nGretzky. LA in six.\n\n\nIf it is these two, Calgary will not need six games. But I think it will be\nLA-Winnipeg anyway, and LA in seven, because of home ice.\n\n\nWow, must've been tough to go against your team. But let's see, I picked\nLA-Detroit. Detroit will win, probably in six.\n\n\nIf Pittsburgh plays Detroit, it will go longer than five, and I wouldn't bet\nagainst the Wings. They are very strong, IMO, and nobody knows *how* strong\nbecause they've been underachieving most of the year. If forced to choose,\nthough, I'd have to take the Penguins.\n\nA side note. Vlad, last week you said that Selanne was a better player than\nGilmour. NO WAY. He is a more talented pure goal scorer...but aside from\nthe age difference, there is no way I would take him over Gilmour on my team.\nI'm not asking for flames, either, btw....I've spent more than enough time\narguing on behalf of Selanne and I still say he's a great player. But while\nhe and Gilmour are both dangerous offensively (give Teemu an edge),\nGilmour *does* *it* *all*. I know a lot of Gilmour-bashing goes on, esp.\nfrom Flame fans. But IMO you guys are letting your dislike of Gilmour cloud\nyour judgement when it comes to his skill. He is easily one of the best\nall-round players in the NHL.\n\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\tI'll go with Mark Grace, and in 2 years, Frank Thomas.\n\n", "As I promised, I would give you the name of the Panther's president.\nAfter Huizenga announced the team name, he announced that Bill\nTorrey is named the first president of the Panthers.\n\nA little Bio from _Sun-Sentinel_\nTorrey, the architect of four consecutive Stanley Cup champions as \npersident and general manager of the New York Islanders.\nThroughout his 27 years in the NHL, Bill Torrey's bow ties have become\nas much of a signature as Andre Agassi's hair.\n\nThe Panthers will introduce a uniform, insignia, and ticket-price \ninformation in early next month. In the meantime, Huizenga leaves the\nday-to-day operation in the hands of Torrey and Bob Clarke, the VP and\nGM.\n\nThe Florida Panthers was chosen as the name of South Florida's NHL team\nto focus attention on an endangered species. There are 30 to 50 Florida\nPanthers in the Everglades National Park, the Big Cypress National \nPreserve and other parts of southwestern Florida.\n\n\"The Panther is the quickest-striking of all cats,\" Torrey said. \n\"Hopefully that's the way we'll play on ice.\"\n\nMore BIO:\nIn Torrey, Huizenga has the first man hired by the expansion Islanders\nin 1972 and the one most responsible for guiding the Islanders to four\nconsecutive Stanley Cup championships (their first after only eight\nseasons) and 14 consecutive winning seasons. As executive vice president\nof the California Golden Seals, Torrey watched the Seals go to the play-\noffs in 1968, only their second NHL season.\n\n\"I guess this completes my own personal hat trick\", said Torrey, 58, a\nnative of Montreal but a resident of Bear Lakes Country Club in Palm\nBeach.\n\nJim G.\nother accounts:\ngorycki@sol.cse.fau.edu\njimg@cybernet.cse.fau.edu\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------\n\"I repeat myself when under stress. I repeat myself when under stress.\nI repeat myself when under stress. I repeat myself when under stress.\nI repeat...\" Adrian Belew, \"Indicipline\"", "\n \n\nListen, *ASSHOLE*, I'm just commenting on what I heard \nreported on the sports news!!\n\nYou'll notice my skeptical comment! Sheesh... I thought this group \nwasfor conversation! Guess I was wrong. }-<", "\n\n\n\tSigh.\n\tThis was written about the game NHLPA Hockey '93. Which does not\nhave precise up-to-date rosters. Why don't people think before they post?\nJeez...\n\n", "Name Pos AB H 2B 3B HR RBI RS SB E AVG\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nBoston OF 12 7 2 6 .583\nGalarraga 1B 28 13 3 1 9 2 .464\nTatum 3B 5 2 1 .400\nCole CF 24 9 1 2 8 2 .375\nE. Young 2B 28 9 1 1 1 5 10 5 3 .321\nHayes 3B 25 7 1 2 5 2 1 2 .280\nMurphy OF 4 1 1 .250\nBichette RF 21 5 1 5 3 1 .238\nClark LF 24 5 2 2 1 .208\nGirardi C 25 5 1 1 3 2 .200\nCastilla SS 6 1 1 .167\nBenavides SS 18 1 2 1 4 .056\nG. Young OF 1 1 .000\nPITCHERS P 12 .000\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTotals 233 65 9 3 5 34 37 9 11 .279\n\nName L/R IP H R ER K BB ERA W L S\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\nWayne L 2.7 3 0 0 3 2 0.00 0 0 0\nAldred L 5 4 3 1 1 6 1.80 0 0 0\nSmith R 12.3 15 3 3 2 3 2.19 1 1 0\nAshby R 5 6 2 2 3 5 3.60 0 0 0 \nNeid R 12 15 6 6 5 8 4.50 1 1 0\nParrett R 5.7 7 3 3 7 3 4.76 0 0 0\nBlair R 5.3 7 5 3 2 3 5.06 0 0 0\nHenry L 6 9 6 5 4 1 7.50 0 1 0\nRuffin L 3 7 6 5 3 4 15.00 0 1 0\nReed R 2.7 7 7 7 1 3 23.63 0 0 0\nHolmes R 1.3 6 10 9 1 4 60.75 0 1 0", "Hello All,\n\nI'd like to learn how to keep score when I watch ball\ngames using official scoring methods. Where can I get\nscoresheets and instructions on how to use them?\n\nI appreciate it,\n\nMike", "They could put on a Quebec-Montreal game.\n\nTalk a bout areivalry!\nopps rivalry..\n\nroland", "Davis will be paid by three clubs this year, I think the Phils are\nresponsbible for about $600,000 or so. They didn't wait for him to clear\nwaivers as three other clubs were also very interested in him. A gamble?\nYes.\n\nWon the CY Young, too, for that year.", "Does anyone know if MSG will televise any of the Binghampton Rangers playoff\ngames. Even taped replays would be nice?\n\n\n\n", "\n\n\nSorry, but this is the biggest load of bunk I've seen in a while. \na) The Pirates have been trying to trade LaValliere for some time now.\nNobody was even vaguely interested.\nb) Several other teams had made it known that they would grab Prince,\nwho was out of options.\nc) LaValliere's release had nothing to do with him being through. He\nwas released, because, in the event of an injury to Slaught,\nLaValliere is no longer capable (they believe) of being the everyday\ncatcher.\n\nSince Slaught is as good against righties as he is against lefties,\nthe offense should actually improve with this move.", "\nThat would be Clint Malarchuck. It was speculated at the time, that\nthe injury was so serious that had he been playing at the other end\nof the rink at the time (he was playing in the same end as the\nambulence is parked), he never would have survived. Ditto, if he\nwere playing anything other than a league with an ambulance on \nstandby.\n\nIf you've seen video tape of the incident, it is amazing how much blood\nthere was. It was literally spurting out all over the ice, as Clint\ngrabbed his neck and watched the puddle in horror. \n\nAmazingly enough, he made a full recovery, and played again in the\nNHL. He was getting on in years at the time of the incident anyway,\nand didn't play for too long afterward. Some people speculated that\nhe just couldn't get himself back together after the incident, and I\nthink he had a bunch of other personal problems dogging him afterward.\nHe did eventually get back to form, and played another year or so after\nthat, and then I believe he retired.\n\nAnyone else?\n\n-- \n\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nCarol Boudreau #44 a.k.a. The X-Terminator\nboudreau@athena.mit.edu Go Flames! Rock the Kings!", "Just a little something I found while reading the Village Voice, which\nis not noted for its sports coverage, but occasionally the print some\ninteresting features. This year, the predictions/team analyses for\nthe 1993 season were presented in the form of Bob Dylan lyrics. I\ndon't have the article in front of me, so I'll only give the memorable\nones here that I remember and know the melody to. I could dig up more\nif there is interest.\n\nYankess (to the tune of \"Subterranean Homesick Blues\")\n\nHowe is in the basement, mixing up the medicine.\nGeorge is on the pavement thinking 'bout the government.\nWade Boggs in a trench coat, bat out, paid off,\nSays he's got a bad back, wants to get it laid off.\nLook out kids, it's somethin' you did.\nDon't know when, but it's Columbus again.\n\nMets (to the tune of \"Like a Rolling Stone\")\n\nOnce upon a time you played so fine\nyou threw away Dykstra before his prime, didn't you?\nPeople said \"Beware Cone, he's bound to roam\"\nBut you thought they were just kidding you.\nYou used to laugh about, \nThe Strawberry that was headin' out.\nBut now you don't talk so loud,\nNow you don't seem so proud,\nAbout having to shop Vince Coleman for your next deal....\n\nPhillies (to the tune of \"Highway 61\")\n\nWell Daulton and Dykstra should have some fun,\nJust keep them off of Highway 61!\n\nGiants (to the tune of \"The Ballad of Rubin 'Hurricane' Carter\")", "I hope that this comes off as a somewhat unbiased assesment\nof WFAN and WIP(I go to school in Philadelphia, and I listen to\nboth stations on a consistant basis.) Now that the fan has Mike\nLupica on from 10 to noon, they have a person who can get the \nbig name guests for interviews, and not just of local importance\nHe did have Dave Cheketts and Fred Wilpon on his show, but he \nhad Bob Costas and Magic Johnson on too. \n Now here are my opinions of the two stations competing talent:\nMorning show:\n In my opinion, I think Imus is much better than Bruno, Cataldi, \nand Morganti, even though I would feel different if Morganti\nhad a better crew of people to work with. To me, WIP tries\nto copy Imus but make it all sports as a theme. In terms of\nsports, Imus lacks the blanketing of the airwaves, but he\ninterjects humor and politics into his show.\n10 AM to 12 Noon:\n I think Chuck Cooperstein and Lupica are equal in their\nabilities to host a radio show, but I think Chuck has the\nadvantage over Lupica in terms of dealing with the caller\nwho is asking about who the local team is going to draft\nin the sixth round. Lupica and the other hosts on FAN get\nbetter interview guests, but I heard the PD of WIP say that\nthey were not interested in interviews with celebrities unless\nit was a major story.\n I would consider this even because they are two different\nstyles of host.\n\n12 Noon to 2 PM:\n At this point, I would have to give a big advantage to \nJody McDonald over Len Berman because Lenny has only been\non for a couple of weeks. I just think JM has the ability\nto transcend the \"homer\" mentality of the Philadelphia fan\nbase. This is most evident when the IGGLES(Philadelphia \nspelling) play the Cowboys because JM is a huge Dallas fan.\nWhere else can you have people call up and predict a 93-0\nscore without the egging of the hosts(re:WIP morning 'guys')\nI do agree that JM was great on the FAN weekend overnight\nand I miss hearing him over the current crop of rotating\nhosts. I feel that JM is the best sportstalk host on \neither station by a good margin. If you are in NY and\nyou can't get WIP, JM does fill in on the weekends sometimes.\n\n2PM to 4PM:\n This is the time when JM goes up against Francesa and \nRusso(fatso and froot loops) and I become the most divided\nin my loyalties. Mike and the dog are very entertaining,\nbut they often go an hour or so without calls or even 10\nto 20 minutes without talking about sports. MATD do\nget great guests and that is the basis for their show, so\nit is like the 10 to 12 debate. Another plus is the\nappearances by Mike and Chris on Imus in the Morning, which\nare often hilarious. \n\n4 PM to 7 PM:\n MATD go up against Fredericks and Missanelli. I like\nMike Missanelli but I just can't stomach Steve Fredericks. \nI know that SF came from Philly originally, but when he\nwas at the FAN, he was a NY homer as much as he is a Philly\nhomer now. I don't listen to WIP much after 4 PM unless there\nis a game on that night, but you will see later for the \nreason. That is why I give the advantage to FAN.\n\n7 PM to Midnight:\n S&M are on WIP until 8 and then it is the man who makes\nEli that calls MATD all the time seem like a novice on\ncharges of racism, G Cobb. This man is so grating on my\nnerves that if I listen to him for a few minutes I go\nnuts.(I know that is biased, but listen to his show)\nOn FAN, there is usually a game on, Knicks, Rangers, Mets\nJets, or St. John's basketball. If the game is on the\nwest coast, then it is usually Howie Rose. Of course\nI think dead air would be better than G Cobb on WIP, but\nWIP does air Sixers and Flyers games during the season.\n(If this is the sports station, why did they lose the\nIGGLES to WYSP(home of Howard Stern in Phil.))\nDuring the summer, it\nis all talk on WIP.\n\n\nOverall, I would have to give the advantage to WFAN, with\nthe exception of 10 to 12, and 2 to 4 where it is even, and\n12 to 2 where WIP has the advantage. \n\n\n\n Rich", "------------------------- Original Article -------------------------\nNewsgroups: rec.sport.baseball\nPath: butch!netcomsv!netcom.com!csus.edu!wupost!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.ed\nFrom: scunning@louven.berkeley.edu (Sean Cunningham)\nSubject: Candlestick\nMessage-ID: <1993Apr21.041620.27894@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>\nSender: nntp@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU (NNTP Poster)\nNntp-Posting-Host: louven.berkeley.edu\nOrganization: University of California, Berkeley\nDate: Wed, 21 Apr 1993 04:16:20 GMT\nLines: 24\n\nHey folks,\n\nSaw the Giants play ball at the 'Stick Saturday, April 17. It was the game\nwhere Pendelton broke up the scoreless tie in the ninth with a two-out,\ntwo-run homer to right to win it. (It wasn't the game where the fans\nthrew the give-away \"fotoballs\" onto the field in response to the homer --\ntoo bad, huh?)\n\nWell, the 'Stick is still cold. The Saturday game ended at 5:45pm, and it\nwas cold then. I can't imagine night games in April at the 'Stick. The\nwind kicked up a little, too, and I got this idea.\n\nAt most games, there's a pile of hot dog wrappers and cups and trash on\nthe field a lot of the time. I propose a Kid's Clean-up Corps composed\nmainly of 10-12 year old kids who would love nothing better than to run\nout on the field in the fifth inning (when the guy in the Toro smooths\nthe infield) and grab the trash.\n\nIt might not be glamorous, but at that age I probably would have given\nanything to be on the field with the ballplayers. Everybody wins here!\n\nWhaddaya think?", "Does anyone have the player stats for games played up until\nApril 22,1993.", "\nYou obviously did not watch the Twins in Chicago.\n\nNo cold spell? It's been snowing most of the week in Minnesota.\n(5 inches in Duluth last weekend)\n\n\nYup.\n", "\nBut only in NY,NJ, Philadelphia, and Chicago. Everywhere else, the only\nreason SportsChannel was available was for local baseball broadcasts.\nAnd local baseball pre-empted the NHL playoffs. Thus far into this\nplayoff season, ESPN/ABC has given me more hockey in 2 days (1 game)\nthan SportsChannel did (0 games).\n\nIf people want hockey on TV, they should watch hockey on TV. I bet the\nratings for hockey on Sunday on ABC went into the toilet. Next week, there\nwill be far fewer ABC affiliates with hockey.\n\nSomeone in this thread said that he wouldn't watch the games even if\nthey were on TV, and this is a r.s.h. regular contributor!\n\nXenophobes north of border needn't fear the US-Americanization of \"our\"\ngame, because US-Americans will never figure out how to market hockey\nhere. Support your team; support your game.", "Ok, Buffalo fans. I am a Red Wings fan, but am amazed at how the Sabres are\nbeating up on the Bruins. Is there any reason for this? Is it Grant Fuhr or\nMogilny and Lafontaine? I would like to hear from you since I do not know much\nabout the Sabres.\n\n\n\n", "A fine 26 year history came to a close tonight, as the Minnesota North Stars, \nor Norm's Stars (whichever you prefer) lost to the Red Wings by a score of\n5-3. The Stars goals were scored by Mike McPhee and Ulf Dahlen, who netted\ntwo including the final one in franchise history, with less than a minute to\nplay.\n\nTonight, on the air on the Stars TV telecast, announcer Al Shaver, the voice\nof the North Stars, stated basically that he will not follow the team to \nDallas. Shaver, when asked by his son (who was doing the broadcast with him),\n\"What will you do now?\" responded, \"First I'm going to get me a new pair of\nslippers. Then I'm going to sit in my easy chair and watch the world go by.\"\n\nThank you North Stars, and thank you Al Shaver, for 26 years of Minnesota\nmemories.", "Thanks for the 41 people who have entered this year's TEAM POOL.\n\nHere is a summary of what was picked:\n\n1st Round:\nPittsburgh 41, New Jersey 0\nChicago 40, St. Louis 1\nBoston 40, Buffalo 1\nVancouver 30, Winnipeg 11\nCalgary 27, Los Angeles 14\nDetroit 26, Toronto 15\nWashington 24, New York Islanders 15 (2 people picked New Jersey)\nQuebec 23, Montreal 18\n\n2nd Round:\nPittsburgh 38, Washington 2, New York Islanders 1\nBoston 31, Quebec 6, Montreal 4\nDetroit 21, Chicago 15, Toronto 5\nCalgary 18, Vancouver 14, Los Angeles 8, Winnipeg 1\n\n3rd Round:\nPittsburgh 31, Boston 7, Quebec 2, Washington 1\nDetroit 18, Chicago 11, Toronto 5, Vancouver 3, Calgary 2, Los Angeles 2\n\nFinals:\nPittsburgh 26, Boston 5, Detroit 4, Toronto 2, Quebec 2, Los Angeles 1, Chicago\n1\n\nGood luck to all!\n", "Just out of curiosity, what happened to the weekly AL and NL Game\nScore Reports? I used to enjoy reading them throughout the summer\nfor the last two years.\n\nInquisitively yours,\n\nJoel", "Hello,\n I am looking for the Coleco Tablehockey games that were popular\nin the 70's. The games that I seek have straight slots for the\ndefenseman, not the S shaped slots. The players are attatched to\nrods operated with springs. If you have a game(or games) that\nyou would be willing to part with, please send me an e-mail\nmessage at U34815@uicvm.uic.edu. Price is negotiable and\nI would also cover shipping if you are out of state. I am\npart of a league that plays on a regular basis, the CTHL (The\nChicago Table Hockey League), and need a game to practice on.\nAlso, the league itself is always interested in purchasing\ngames to expand itself.\n Thank You,\n Ken Harris.\nequipment to expand it's size.\n\n", " \n\n\n\nMr. Hernandez Ñ-\n \n I apologize for the misunderstanding. I explained that I know that it\nis essential for some fans to get scores here, for they cannot get them\nelsewhere. I have no problem with what you do, posting scores AFTER the\ngames have been completed. However, like I said earlier, I don't think it\nis a necessity to post scores during the middle of games, like some others\nhave come to practice.", "only\nappreciated.\n\nPaul Coffey of Detroit RedWings\n", "Anyone who really believes that the Caps can beat\nthe Pens are kidding themselves. The Pens may not loose\none game in the playoffs.", "\nWasn't Hulett injured yesterday after being hit in the face with a ball\nwhile running bases? I heard something about him recieving stiches and a\npossible broken nose. Is he at the park?\n\n\nLet's see how they feel when he's 0 and 4 with a 4.9 ERA. I have my\ndoubts about Fernando.\n\n\nWell, when a fan favorite gets dumped, he's gonna get an outstanding\novation on his first return. Let's add up the ovations Cal has recieved\nover the years during the game and compare that to Billy.\n\nBTW, Sutcliffe's getting knocked around pretty good. Rangers up 5 - 1 in\nthe bottom of the fourth.", "\nLook how long the Maple Leafs and Nordiques used similar logic.... Not that\nthey fielded bad teams solely to field bad teams, but the Maple Leafs (and a\ncertain dead man who was in charge) were one of the cheapest teams in the\nhistory of the sport. Guess what-- they were immensely popular at the\ngate. The Nordiques have also done well for a team that had missed the\nplayoffs so many years in a row.\n\n\nHa! Such humor! They have MAJOR fan problems, namely that on occasion some of\nthem don't make it home from the match! The soccer fans tend to be fanatical,\nmuch like the Montreal fans who firebomb the players and coaches houses when\nthey play pathetically.\n \n-JPC\n\n-- ", "The subject line says it all. Is it terribly difficult to get tickets\nto Penguins games, especially now that they are in the playoffs? Would\nit be easy to find scalpers outside of the Igloo selling tickets?", "\nI doubt Henderson would clear waivers. And if he did, he would\ninstantly be signed for the major league minimum, with Oakland picking\nup the remaining $3 million tab.\n\nSome GMs value on-field performance too...", "\n-\n- I heard a story on the local sports news broadcast in Edmonton.\n- Oiler owner Peter Pocklington will be holding a press conference\n- next week. While the exact details are not known, it is believed\n- to concern the Oiler's future.\n-\n- Rumour has it that Pocklington signed a tentative lease arrangement\n- with Copps Collesium in Hamilton. During the press conference,\n- Pocklington may announce the deal. It is quite possible that\n- the deal may simply be a way to force Edmonton Northlands to\n- renegotiate the Oiler lease on the stadium.\n-\n- Northlands has offered to buy the Oilers for $65 million earlier,\n- but the offer was rejected immediately by Pocklington.\n-\n- As for me, my opinion is divided... Edmonton has been fairly\n- supportive of the Oilers. Even though they're a small market\n- team, they had many sellouts in the 80s. Even with the problems\n- that the team had this year, they still brought in more fans\n- than many teams in larger cities did. On the other hand, if\n- the team does move, there is no place more deserving than\n- Hamilton. Of course, how would that affect the grand\n- realignment scheme of Bettman?\n-\n\n Following up on this, the provincial government has been asked by the\nOpposition to block any deal that Pocklington is offering to Hamilton. The\ngovernment said that Pock is going nowhere!\n\n Why don't I believe the government? Wasn't it Pocklington who wanted to be\nTory leader 9 years ago?", "With the kind of team Montreal has now, they can take the\ncup easily. The only problem they have right now is that everyone is\ntrying to steal the show and play alone. They need some massive teamwork.\n\tThey are also in a little of a slump because long-time hockey\nMontreal Canadiens announcer Claude Mouton died last tuesday and it was\nrough on everybody because he has worked with the organization for 21\nyears. But I know that is no excuse. But if the Habs manage to get some\ngood teamwork and get into the spirit, they should have no problem\nwinning in May.", "Maine beat LSSU 5-4.\n\n", "\nA month? Well, he did have a short career--compared to what one might\nhave expected for such a highly touted prospect--due to being injury prone,\noverweight, and having no work ethic. But he certainly did not\nsuffer from being rushed to the bigs.", "\n\n\n\nI think there is another formula for ERA. I heard something about it last \nyear. Im not sure what it is, but im gonna give it a stab. It allows for\na pitcher to pitch more than 9 innings at a time and not benefit, cuz it\nuses outs recorded instead of innings pitched...\n\n ERA = (ER*27)/outs recorded\n\nLike i said, im not sure this is exactly it, but im pretty sure they changed\nit to something of the sort.\n\n\n\n\n\n", "\n I know that there wasn't other games on the schedule, but ESPN sometimes\nshows classic games from previous season to fill in the time slot.", "\n\nSomeone on the minor league mailing list probably does. \n\n\nI do, but I don't have time to type the whole thing in (I don't mind looking\nup specific date ranges or individual games when I can, but there are\nlimits). \n\nBesides, this stuff is EASY to find. Baseball America puts out a book called\nthe Directory. It's $10(US). Has every team's data and schedule in it. If I\nWERE to type in the whole scheudle, I'd just be spending a lot of time\ninfringing on their copyright.\n\nFolks who are interested in the minors should check out my minor league list\n(see the signature), and folks who are tracking down team schedules should\nchec out the BA Directory. You can order it from 800-845-2726. I find it\nindispenable.\n\n", "\nAnother word (offense) makes them my pick for last too.\n(Well, there's also my policy of never picking a Buck Rodgers' team for last)\n\n\nThe 1961 Angels were 1/2 game out of 7th. The Athletics and \nexpansion Senators finished tied for last. \nThe 1962 Colt 45's finshed 8th - ahead of the Cubs (the Mets were last).\nThe 1969 Royals finshed 4th - ahead of the White Sox (the Pilots in last).\nThe 1977 Mariners finished 6th - ahead of the Athletics(in last).\n\nApparently being an expansion team with a poor A's or Chicago \nteam around is a `good thing'\n\n\nThis may be an appropriate comparison.\nThe 1929-31 Yankees finshed 2nd, 3rd and 2nd finshing \n18, 16 and 13-1/2 games out of first. \nIn 1933,'34 and '35 they also finished second ( though they were only\n7, 7 and 3 games out).\nEven great teams can lose - That's why they play the season.\n(on the other hand... I'm still picking the Braves to go all the way)", "The *real* way to speed up ballgames is for each home park owner to offer the\nfollowing schedule of bonuses to players on *both* teams:\n\n For all players who participated in the game, offer $500 for each 10\n minutes less than 3 hours the game took (i.e. if the game only took 2.5\n hours, each player gets a bonus of $1500).\n\n For all pitchers throwing 3 or more full innings in the game, extrapolate\n the number of pitches or attempted pickoffs to the number they would have\n thrown in a full 9 innings, and offer $500 for each number less than 120.\n (If the pitcher throws a complete game with 100 pitches and 5 throws to\n first he would get $7500).\n\nI suspect you could finance this the same way Presidential campaigns are\npaid for. Offer each fan a checkoff on his or her ticket that says \"I want\n5% of the price of this ticket to go towards fast game bonuses\"...", "\n\n\tYou are absolutely correct. Braves fans are nothing but a bunch of\nbandwagoners. Correct me if I am wrong, but 4 or 5 years ago you couldnt give\naway a ticket to see the Braves play.I would bet my next paycheck that 80% of\nthe so-called Braves fans living outside of Georgia at the present time can not\nname more than 3 players from their 1988 season. On the other hand, ask any\nCubs fan living anywhere in the United States to name 3 players from any given\nyear and 80% of them probably could.\n\tGranted, the fact that a team wins brings people to the ball park, but\nthat does not mean they diserve the title \"America's Team\"\n\tThe only reason they are considered America's team is because of Ted\nTurner and his little TV station which broadcasts across the nation.\n\tI'll consider Toronto AMerica's team before the Braves\n\n\n\tGO REDS!\n", "Here is yet another prediction for them great playoffs!\n(you may laugh at your convenience!) :)\n\n\tAdams Division (I hate the NE (name) divisoin!!!)\n\nBOS vs BUF BOS in 5 (the B's are hot lately!)\n\nMON vs QUE MON in 7 (This will be the series to watch in the first round!)\n\n\nBOS vs MON MON in 7 (this may be a bit biased but I feel the Canadiens will\n\t\t (smarten up and start playing they played two months ago\n\t\t\t( i.e. bench Savard !!!)\n\tPatrick Division \n\nPIT vs NJD PIT in 6 (It wont be a complete cake walk... there be a few lumps\n\t\t\t(in the cake batter!)\n\nWAS vs NYI WAS in 6 \t(This will not be an exciting series..IMO)\n\n\nPITT vs WAS PIT in 4 (Washington will be tired after the NYI)\n\n\tNorris Division\n\nCHI vs StL CHI in 5 (StL will get a lucky game in)\n\nTOR vs DET TOR in 7 (THis , like MON vs QUE, will be another intense \n\t\t\t (series to watch!)\n\nCHI vs TOR TOR in 7 (Potvin will be settling in nicely by this point.)\n\n\tSmythe Division\n\nVAN vs WIN VAN in 5 (Teemu is great, but Vancouver better as a team!)\n\nCAL vs LAK CAL in 6 (Gretzky is great, but Calgary has been on fire lately)\n\t\t\t\t...sorry for the pun... um, no I am not! :)\n\nVAN vs CAL VAN in 6 (This will be a great series! but VAN has proven they\n\t\t\t (Will not lie down and get beat!)\n\n\tWales Conference finals\n\nPittsburgh vs Montreal \tMontreal in 6 (Montreal IMHO is the only team\n\t\t\t\t\t (that has a chance against \n\t\t\t\t\t\tPittsburgh.)\n\n\tCampbell Conference finals\n\nVancouver vs Toronto\t\tToronto in 6 (Potvin will be series MVP)\n\n\n\tSTANLEY CUP FINALS \n\nToronto Maple Leafs vs Montreal Canadiens \n\t(The Classic Stanley Cup Final matchup!!) <---also a dream come true!\n\n\tMontreal wins the Stanley cup in the 7th game 1 - 0 in double overtime.\nRoy and Potvin are spectacular throughout the series and share series MVP (if \nthat is possible) Vincent Damphouse nets game winner from a brilliant pass by\nBrian Bellows! Canadiens star(?) Denis Savard watched his buddies play from the\nowners box nursing that splinter on his thumb which has left him on the \ndisabled list since the first game of the playoffs (awww shucks). \n\n***************************************YEE HAA!!*******************************\n*poof* And I wake up :)\nWell that is my predictions...I hope and dream they come true. and you can stop\nlaughing anytime :)", "****************************************************\n12) Management: BIG BIG ZERO. Sauer has yet to make a forceful agreement\nin favor of revenue sharing.\n******************************************************\n\n\nI meant argument instead of agreement.\nAlso, I think I should add a coouple of Ted's positive achievements\n- Smiley trade was good for the pirates. but I think Ted could have gotten\nsomeone better than Neagle. Cummings seems to be pretty good.\n- The Cole trade was excellent. BUt Simmons has botched it up now.\n-This year's draft seems to have gone well for the PIrates. BUt then they\nlost 2 high picks in the Bonds fiasco.", "NHL PLAYOFF RESULTS FOR 4/22/93.\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n CONFERENCE SEMI-FINALS BEST OF SEVEN\n PATRICK ADAMS NORRIS SMYTHE\n \n NJ BUF (leads 3-0) STL (leads 2-0) WIN \n PIT (leads 3-0) BOS CHI VAN (leads 2-0)\n\n NYI (leads 2-1) MON TOR LA (tied 1-1) \n WAS QUE (leads 2-1) DET (leads 2-0) CAL \n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nQuebec Nordiques (leads series 2-1) 1 0 0 0 - 1\nMontreal Canadiens 0 1 0 1 - 2\n\n1st period: QUE, Sundin 1 - (Gusarov) 1:17\n\t \n2nd period: MON, Muller 1 - (Damphousse, Bellows) (pp) 1:30\n\n3rd period: NONE\n\n1 Overtime: MON, Damphousse 1 - (Bellows, Desjardins) (pp) 10:30\n\nPowerplay Opportunities-Nordiques 0 of 4\n\t\t\tCanadiens 2 of 6\n\nShots on Goal-\tNordiques 12 4 14 5 - 35\n\t\tCanadiens 11 14 13 12 - 50\n\nQuebec Nordiques--Hextall (2-1) (50 shots - 48 saves)\nMontreal Canadiens--Roy (1-2) (35 shots - 34 saves)\n\nATT-17,679\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nPittsburgh Penguins (leads series 3-0) 1 0 3 - 4\nNew Jersey Devils 1 1 1 - 3\n\n1st period: NJD, Guerin 1 - 1:03\n\t PIT, McEachern 3 - (Straka) 9:36\n\t \n2nd period: NJD, Holik 1 - (S.Stevens) 16:32\n\n3rd period: PIT, M.Lemieux 4 - (Murphy, Ramsey) 1:07\n\t PIT, Taglianetti 1 - (Loney, Tippett) 7:05\n\t PIT, Murphy 1 - (Francis, Tocchet) (pp) 9:31\n\t NJD, Semak 1 - (Zelepukin) 9:44\n\nPowerplay Opportunities-Penguins 1 of 4\n\t\t\tDevils 0 of 5\n\nShots on Goal-\tPenguins 7 16 12 - 35\n\t\tDevils 16 11 5 - 32\n\nPittsburgh Penguins--Barrasso (3-0) (32 shots - 29 saves)\nNew Jersey Devils--Billington (0-1) (35 shots - 31 saves)\n\nATT-14,974\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nBoston Bruins 1 0 2 0 - 3\nBuffalo Sabres (leads series 3-0) 2 0 1 1 - 4\n\n1st period: BUF, Mogilny 4 - (LaFontaine, Hawerchuk) (pp) 1:33\n\t BUF, Khmylev 1 - (Smehlik, Hannan) 4:42\n\t BOS, Bourque 1 - (Oates, Donato) (pp) 17;33\n\n2nd period: NONE\n\n3rd period: BOS, Smolinski 1 - (Oates) 13:28\n\t BUF, B.Sweeney 2 - (Khmylev, Carney) 14:56\n\t BOS, Neely 3 - (Oates, Shaw) 15:57\n\n1 Overtime: BUF, Khmylev 2 - (Hawerchuk, LaFontaine) (pp) 1:05\n\nPowerplay Opportunities-Bruins 1 of 5\n\t\t\tSabres 2 of 7\n\nShots on Goal-\tBruins 11 8 15 0 - 34\n\t\tSabres 12 11 8 3 - 34\n\nBoston Bruins--Blue (0-1) (34 shots - 30 saves)\nBuffalo Sabres--Fuhr (3-0) (34 shots - 31 saves)\n\nATT-16,325\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nWashington Capitals 1 1 1 0 - 3\nNew York Islanders (leads series 2-1) 1 0 2 1 - 4\n\n1st period: NYI, Thomas 1 - 16:37\n\t WAS, Burridge 1 - (May, Cavallini) 18:58\n\n2nd period: WAS, Carpenter 1 - (Ridley, Bondra) 6:18\n\n3rd period: WAS, Elynuik 1 - (Carpenter, Ridley) 6:15\n\t NYI, Thomas 2 - (Turgeon, King) 11:11\n\t NYI, Turgeon 3 - (Thomas, Hogue) 19:17\n\n1 Overtime: NYI, Ferraro 3 - (Hogue, Flatley) 4:46\n\nPowerplay Opportunities-Capitals 0 of 2\n\t\t\tIslanders 0 of 4\n\nShots on Goal-\tCapitals 10 8 6 1 - 25\n\t\tIslanders 10 6 8 6 - 30\n\nWashington Capitals--Tabaracci (1-2) (25 shots - 21 saves)\nNew York Islanders--Healy (2-1) (30 shots - 27 saves)\n\nATT-14,180\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n", "Well, the Patrick Division got a little more interesting last night. \nThe Islanders lost in OT and the Devils tied the Pens. That means if the Isles\nbeat the Devils on Friday, the will meet the Caps in the playoffs.\n\n\tHowever, I have some more comments on the Islanders and hockey in\ngeneral that I need to get off my chest :). First of all, with the Islanders \nback-to-back lackluster performances against the Whalers, one may think that \nthe Islanders are out of shape. These guys always suck wind in the 2nd period,\ncome on a little in the 3rd and run out of gas too soon. It is unbelieveable\nhow many one goal games these guys have lost. Anyway, the games was pretty \nwide open. The Isles still have tons of trouble scoring. The Whalers played \na golie in is 1st NHL start, I think his name was Lenarduzzi (sp?). (His NHL \ndebut was the Tuesday tie against the Isles). Like I mentioned before, this \nguy looked like the best golie on the planet for a while (until he misplayed a \nMahlakov slap shot to go to OT). I say it's because the Isles don't shoot \ncorrectly. Has anyone else noticed this?\n\n\tAlso, I think it is really a shame for hockey when I guy like Mick\nVukota gets as much ice time as he does. This guy has about as much hockey\ntalent as Jiggs MacDonald (who did play hockey, I think). Anytime he gets the\npuck it gets stolen, and he always starts fights and gets needless penalties. \nRichard Pilon is another guy who is on the ice to stir up crap. And he's a\ndefenseman. He's got to be approaching negative infinity for his plus/minus. \nThis guy gets beaten all the time. Why the need for such \"enforcers\"? Not\nonly do fights slow the game down ALOT, but it takes away from the guys who are\nreally trying to play the game. I'll be one of the few to admit, I do enjoy a \ngood fight once in a while, but only when it's \"called for\". You know, when a\nguy checks the goalie too hard. In other words, a violation of \"hockey ethics\"\nmight cause you to get puched. But there is no need to start crap when you are\nlosing or becuase you can get away with it!! Does anyone agree that referees\nneed to be a little less lenient in the 3rd and OT? I mean COME ON already. \nI'm sick of seeing teams pulling guys down, holding guys etc. just becuase the\nreferee doesn't call it. OT and late in the 3rd should be a time for strategy,\nnot physical prowess. Trying to set up a goal should be first and foremost. \nIf you are so afraid that the other team is going to score that you have to\npull a guy down to prevent it, you don't deserve to win in the first place.\n\nJust My Honest Opinion,", "The Dodgers have been shopping Harris to other teams in their\nquest for more left-handed pitching. So far, no takers.\nPersonally, I think Harris is a defensive liability, and he\nhas also led the team in past years for hitting into double\nplays, or at least been among the leaders.\n \nSharperson showed last year that if given a chance to play\nevery day, he can get the job done. If Sharpy played just\none base every day, say third, he'd also improve defensively.\n \nWallach has helped tremendously on defense, as has Reed.\nThe improved defense is quite noticeable and is having an\neffect on the pitching staff. Both Astacio AND Martinez\nwere bailed out in recent starts by great defensive plays.\nMartinez pitched into the ninth in a game that might\nhave seen him lifted in the third in past years.\n \nAstacio lasted 7 innings the other day under similar circumstances.\nThe Dodgers are turning double plays, and keeping more balls\nin the infield than last year. And Piazza has also been great\non defense. He has thrown out 10 of 14 batters trying to\nsteal and has at least one pick off at first.\n \nWallach, clearly, has contributed to the over all improvement on\ndefense. But his offense is awful and he has cost the Dodgers\nsome runs. But I don't think he is as bad as his current average.\nI suspect he will come out of this slump much as Davis and Straw\nseem to have come out of theirs.", "\n\tA \"reasonable\" umpire would have recognized that Ron Gant was \ndisturbed with the call. A \"reasonable\" umpire would have realized that\nthere was a 1-run game in progress, with two outs in the ninth. What\nRon Gant did was try to regain his composure. What a \"normal\" baseball\nplayer would have done would have been to get into a heated argument\nwith the umpire, and since you can't argue balls and strikes, he would\nhave been ejected from the game. Ron Gant, by trying to avoid such a\nconflict, was penalized for showing some restraint.\n\n\tIncidentally, a \"reasonable\" home plate umpire would not have been\nso resistant to seeking the appeal to the first base umpire, as Gant\nrequested. If the home plate umpire had appealed to first, the first base\numpire could have wrung up the strike, and Gant would not have been so\nupset. If the call had been a ball, and the catcher had requested the\nappeal, it is likely the home plate umpire would have asked for the help.\n\n\tFinally, the entire game was pretty much a mockery of the so-called\nefforts to \"speed up the game.\" The game was played very quickly, it was\njust at 2 hours when the stuff happened in the ninth, and the only delays\nin the entire game had been *the result* of actions by the umpires (other than\nDeion having to clean garbage off the field).\n", "Well, I'm back from Tokyo, so here are the standings after the April 13 update.\n\n\t- Andrew\n\nUSENET Hockey Draft Standings\nWeek 27\n\nPosn\tTeam\t\t\t\tPts\tProj\tCash\tLast Posn\n\n1.\tDave Wessels 1536\t1572.8\t1.9\t(1)\n2.\tBob Hill 1481\t1538.1\t24.0\t(3)\n3.\tGilles Carmel 1492\t1529.9\t1.0\t(2)\n4.\tSeppo Kemppainen 1430\t1514.0\t47.2\t(5)\n5.\tThe Awesome Oilers 1412\t1504.4\t68.6\t(4)\n6.\tHillside Raiders 1456\t1495.2\t7.0\t(7)\n7.\tMak \"The Knife\" Paranjape 1424\t1491.7\t31.0\t(6)\n8.\tJan Stein 1412\t1483.2\t35.3\t(8)\n9.\tthis years model 1428\t1479.3\t17.6\t(10)\n10.\tRangers Of Destiny 1401\t1475.9\t42.0\t(9)\n\tTapio Repo 1422\t1475.9\t19.6\t(11)\n12.\tFRANK'S BIG FISH 1398\t1453.9\t22.0\t(12)\n13.\tThe Underachievers 1409\t1452.9\t10.1\t(13)\n14.\tOn Thin Ice 1380\t1440.9\t32.3\t(14)\n15.\tGo Flames 1367\t1438.1\t40.3\t(17)\n16.\tlittlest giants 1370\t1437.7\t35.6\t(16)\n17.\tMopar Muscle Men 1400\t1431.4\t3.7\t(18)\n18.\tLindros Losers 1396\t1431.2\t1.7\t(15)\n19.\tDIE Penguin Bandwaggoners 1357\t1411.0\t20.2\t(19)\n20.\tSamuel Lau (Calgary, Alberta) 1360\t1396.3\t4.9\t(20)\n21.\tBoomer's Boys 1341\t1371.6\t0.2\t(23)\n22.\tGeneral Accounting Office 1316\t1369.4\t20.9\t(21)\n23.\tDelaware Wombats 1341\t1367.5\t1.3\t(24)\n24.\tMigods Menschen 1307\t1366.8\t31.6\t(22)\n25.\tWellsy's Buttheads DEC NH 1280\t1362.3\t52.6\t(25)\n26.\tRocky Mountain High 1325\t1357.2\t1.8\t(26)\n27.\tFife Flyers 1283\t1348.4\t31.4\t(27)\n28.\tGerald Olchowy 1275\t1340.2\t33.7\t(28)\n29.\tDave Snell 1281\t1335.7\t25.0\t(59)\n30.\tFluide Glacial 1291\t1333.7\t18.0\t(29)\n31.\tGaoler 1279\t1321.5\t11.2\t(30)\n32.\tSmegHeads 1289\t1315.8\t0.3\t(31)\n33.\tThe Young And The Skateless 1235\t1305.6\t42.9\t(32)\n34.\tSam & His Dogs 1262\t1297.3\t11.6\t(34)\n35.\tNeural Netters 1251\t1294.2\t11.3\t(35)\n36.\tYoungbucs 1206\t1288.1\t101.7\t(36)\n37.\tArtic Storm 1220\t1287.7\t39.3\t(33)\n38.\tSoft Swedes 1205\t1281.5\t46.9\t(37)\n39.\tJeff Horvath 1239\t1268.6\t5.6\t(38)\n40.\tMilton Keynes Kings 1229\t1262.5\t2.8\t(40)\n41.\tHamster from Hoboken 1223\t1257.0\t8.7\t(41)\n\tKuehn Crushers 1185\t1257.0\t45.1\t(45)\n43.\tLe Fleur de Lys 1202\t1256.9\t25.3\t(42)\n44.\tYan The Man Loke 1225\t1255.5\t0.7\t(39)\n45.\tLegion of Hoth 1208\t1251.1\t15.8\t(48)\n46.\tSimmonac 1169\t1249.4\t87.6\t(44)\n47.\tThe Finnish Force 1192\t1245.1\t22.5\t(46)\n48.\tice legion 1193\t1244.8\t28.8\t(43)\n49.\tStreaks 1161\t1242.8\t54.8\t(47)\n50.\tBrian Bergman 1190\t1241.0\t23.3\t(55)\n51.\tGoaldingers 1190\t1239.3\t22.0\t(49)\n52.\tT C OverAchievers 1209\t1237.0\t2.9\t(52)\n53.\tGrant Marven 1196\t1231.2\t2.9\t(50)\n54.\tBozrah Bruins 1155\t1223.9\t45.2\t(54)\n55.\tReal Bad Toe Jam 1150\t1223.4\t48.9\t(62)\n56.\tHoudini's Magicians 1181\t1222.4\t18.3\t(61)\n57.\tSkriko Wolves 1186\t1221.5\t5.4\t(53)\n58.\trec.sport.hockey choices 1196\t1221.1\t1.3\t(63)\n59.\tbuffalo soldiers 1142\t1220.3\t62.1\t(65)\n60.\tbemybaby 1140\t1219.9\t54.2\t(51)\n61.\tLIPPE 1179\t1215.2\t13.9\t(56)\n62.\tRandy Coulman 1185\t1214.8\t5.2\t(57)\n63.\tLAMP LIGHTERS 1180\t1211.6\t5.9\t(58)\n64.\tSteven And Mark Dream Team 1174\t1206.2\t3.1\t(60)\n65.\tIndianapolis Bennies 1160\t1205.4\t20.8\t(66)\n66.\tTom 1160\t1202.8\t13.1\t(68)\n67.\tBloom County All Stars 1164\t1198.8\t4.3\t(67)\n68.\tBruins 1174\t1198.5\t0.1\t(72)\n69.\tPhil and Kev's Karma Dudes 1172\t1198.0\t0.8\t(69)\n70.\tsmithw 1146\t1194.5\t21.0\t(73)\n71.\tIowa Hockeyes 1149\t1193.8\t16.3\t(64)\n72.\tDoug Bowles 1146\t1190.6\t20.0\t(71)\n73.\tThe Great Pumpkin 1108\t1187.3\t54.4\t(74)\n74.\tNON! 1145\t1186.4\t16.4\t(77)\n75.\tshooting seamen 1161\t1183.3\t0.1\t(75)\n76.\tFrank Worthless 1149\t1182.7\t6.3\t(76)\n77.\tAIK Exiles 1116\t1179.8\t34.5\t(70)\n78.\tInvisible Inc 1156\t1177.4\t1.1\t(78)\n79.\tBrad Gibson 1126\t1176.9\t27.2\t(79)\n80.\tCougarmania 1114\t1165.7\t24.8\t(88)\n81.\tKortelaisen Kovat 1086\t1165.2\t164.1\t(85)\n82.\tPLP Fools 1135\t1163.1\t0.1\t(81)\n83.\tDavid Wong 1082\t1161.6\t66.1\t(84)\n84.\tJohn Zupancic 1102\t1160.7\t27.1\t(82)\n85.\tgarryola 1121\t1159.4\t9.7\t(89)\n86.\tGary Bergman Fan Club 1128\t1157.6\t5.1\t(93)\n87.\tStaffan Axelsson 1120\t1157.1\t15.1\t(83)\n88.\tChubby Checkers 1110\t1156.2\t16.3\t(80)\n89.\tDerrill's Dastardly Dozen 1109\t1155.0\t22.1\t(90)\n90.\tChocolate Rockets 1121\t1150.7\t2.5\t(86)\n91.\tKen DeCruyenaere 1113\t1147.9\t5.0\t(87)\n92.\tFisher Dirtbags 1119\t1147.4\t0.7\t(94)\n93.\tKODIAKS 1122\t1146.0\t1.3\t(95)\n94.\tNo Namers 1067\t1145.8\t58.2\t(91)\n95.\tThe Campi Machine 1061\t1145.2\t65.3\t(92)\n96.\tBSC Oranienburg 1115\t1142.4\t7.1\t(98)\n97.\tThe Kamucks 1064\t1141.5\t76.1\t(97)\n98.\tArsenal Maple Leafs 1108\t1138.4\t3.8\t(96)\n99.\tEllis Islanders 1096\t1128.0\t7.6\t(100)\n100.\tMombasa Mosquitos 1090\t1122.4\t6.1\t(101)\n101.\tZachmans Wingers 1051\t1122.1\t49.8\t(103)\n102.\tEdelweiss 1091\t1121.0\t2.9\t(102)\n103.\tBjoern Leaguen 1039\t1118.5\t61.4\t(112)\n104.\tDirty White Socks 1050\t1116.5\t43.4\t(105)\n105.\tWormtown Woosbags 1039\t1116.1\t72.6\t(104)\n106.\tNeil Younger 1036\t1115.0\t77.7\t(114)\n107.\tHurricane Andrew 1082\t1114.8\t7.6\t(106)\n108.\tKing Suke 1089\t1114.5\t0.1\t(110)\n109.\tLarry 1078\t1114.3\t11.8\t(107)\n110.\tHet Schot Is Hard 1076\t1113.6\t18.1\t(115)\n111.\tVoteNoOct26 1056\t1112.6\t31.8\t(108)\n112.\tBloodgamers 1046\t1111.6\t42.1\t(99)\n\tBruce's Rented Mules 1077\t1111.6\t11.9\t(108)\n114.\tTeem Kanada 1075\t1110.6\t16.0\t(111)\n115.\tFrank's Follies 1063\t1106.5\t24.2\t(113)\n116.\tOklahoma Stormchasers 1053\t1103.6\t28.3\t(121)\n117.\tSPUDS 1068\t1103.4\t12.6\t(119)\n118.\tPond Slime 1081\t1102.3\t0.7\t(117)\n119.\tPSV Dartmouth 1071\t1101.4\t7.1\t(116)\n120.\tMark Sanders 1065\t1099.2\t11.1\t(120)\n121.\tBlue Talon 1062\t1096.5\t13.3\t(126)\n122.\tStanford Ice Hawks 1043\t1094.7\t28.2\t(118)\n123.\tAye Carumba!!! 1063\t1089.6\t3.9\t(124)\n124.\tKokudo Keikaku Bunnies 1021\t1088.0\t40.3\t(125)\n125.\tTimo Ojala 1059\t1085.7\t0.3\t(122)\n126.\tHaral 1057\t1085.3\t7.3\t(128)\n127.\tCluster Buster 1048\t1083.4\t7.6\t(136)\n128.\tDirty Rotten Puckers 1054\t1082.7\t1.2\t(135)\n129.\tApricot Fuzzfaces 1037\t1081.1\t23.3\t(127)\n130.\tThe Lost Poots 1048\t1080.5\t6.7\t(132)\n131.\tNesbitt 1058\t1078.6\t1.1\t(123)\n132.\tGary Bill Pens Dynasty 1035\t1077.8\t19.6\t(144)\n133.\tgarys team 1035\t1076.2\t17.1\t(129)\n134.\tArctic Circles 1012\t1074.1\t37.6\t(131)\n135.\tSeattle PFTB 1028\t1074.0\t22.9\t(132)\n136.\tLate Night with David Letterman 1049\t1073.7\t0.0\t(130)\n137.\tLe Groupe MI 1020\t1073.2\t30.2\t(141)\n138.\tGO BRUINS 1046\t1072.7\t6.2\t(140)\n139.\tScott Glenn 1038\t1069.7\t10.2\t(138)\n140.\tFlying Kiwis 1035\t1068.7\t9.1\t(136)\n141.\tteam gold 1029\t1067.4\t16.7\t(142)\n142.\tCloset Boy's Boys 995\t1064.6\t48.0\t(143)\n143.\tWild Hearted Sons 1036\t1064.4\t4.9\t(153)\n144.\tboutch 92-93 1023\t1063.2\t20.0\t(134)\n145.\tAndy Y F WONG 1019\t1062.6\t21.5\t(147)\n\tWembley LostWeekenders 1040\t1062.6\t0.3\t(152)\n147.\tMcKees Rocks Rockers 1036\t1062.4\t5.1\t(144)\n148.\tBook 'em Danno's Bushbabies 1032\t1062.1\t10.5\t(163)\n149.\tDree Hobbs 1020\t1060.2\t13.4\t(139)\n150.\tGO HABS GO 1027\t1058.1\t8.0\t(151)\n151.\tGoddess Of Fermentation 1005\t1057.8\t30.2\t(156)\n152.\tTim Rogers 1024\t1056.8\t8.1\t(146)\n153.\tconvex stars 1026\t1055.9\t5.6\t(160)\n154.\tEinstein's Rock Band 1033\t1055.7\t0.0\t(154)\n155.\tPrinceton Canucks 979\t1055.5\t124.2\t(150)\n156.\tTap 1028\t1055.2\t0.5\t(155)\n157.\tHubert's Hockey Homeboys 1030\t1053.9\t0.6\t(163)\n\tButtered Waffles 981\t1053.9\t46.0\t(148)\n159.\tMY TEAM 977\t1052.0\t174.8\t(162)\n160.\tBob's Blues 980\t1050.9\t46.8\t(149)\n161.\tfurleys furies 1021\t1046.6\t3.6\t(159)\n162.\tHUNTERS & COLLECTORS 982\t1045.9\t42.4\t(157)\n\tLes Nordiques 974\t1045.9\t60.4\t(161)\n164.\tSatan's Choice 1012\t1045.3\t14.5\t(173)\n165.\tDr Joel Fleishman 1020\t1043.9\t3.7\t(158)\n166.\tSundogs 1017\t1040.9\t0.4\t(166)\n167.\tPierre Mailhot 1017\t1039.9\t2.6\t(175)\n168.\tSlap Shot Marco 966\t1037.8\t51.8\t(168)\n169.\tSan Jose Mahi Mahi 989\t1037.6\t31.8\t(178)\n170.\tThe Leafs Rule!!!! 990\t1037.3\t25.8\t(174)\n171.\tJeff Nimeroff 963\t1036.5\t48.8\t(167)\n172.\tStimpy ADG Zeta 996\t1035.2\t21.0\t(178)\n173.\tThe Dreamers 958\t1034.6\t63.7\t(170)\n174.\tEast City Jokers 956\t1033.7\t69.1\t(171)\n175.\tDaryl Turner 1008\t1033.1\t2.4\t(169)\n176.\triding the pine 988\t1031.8\t20.7\t(165)\n177.\tFlowers 957\t1030.4\t113.6\t(172)\n178.\tDarse Billings 975\t1029.3\t34.7\t(185)\n179.\tChappel's Chumps 984\t1027.9\t24.0\t(186)\n180.\tLANA Inc 982\t1027.2\t27.3\t(182)\n181.\tSpinal Tap 963\t1026.6\t41.4\t(177)\n182.\tJimParker 949\t1025.9\t179.0\t(187)\n183.\tEnforcers 980\t1023.9\t28.1\t(189)\n184.\tJeff Bachovchin 949\t1020.7\t46.7\t(180)\n\tBig Bad Bruins 981\t1020.7\t18.5\t(183)\n186.\tMike Mac Cormack Sydney NS CAN 944\t1020.6\t107.2\t(184)\n187.\tBulldogs 973\t1019.7\t23.4\t(181)\n188.\tvoyageurs 996\t1017.2\t2.7\t(176)\n189.\tAbsolut Lehigh 984\t1015.4\t8.9\t(190)\n190.\tRepublican Dirty Tricksters 930\t1010.4\t66.0\t(188)\n191.\tHenry's Bar B Q 990\t1007.7\t0.7\t(197)\n192.\tDr.D And The S.O.D. 968\t1007.3\t17.1\t(192)\n193.\tBunch of Misfits 957\t1006.9\t23.8\t(193)\n194.\tRobyns Team 955\t1005.5\t30.0\t(198)\n195.\tYellow Plague 969\t1003.4\t14.2\t(191)\n196.\tNinja Turtles 982\t1003.0\t1.3\t(194)\n197.\tTeam Melville 930\t999.1\t46.9\t(199)\n198.\tAcadien 962\t998.6\t18.3\t(201)\n199.\tDARMAN'S Dragons 950\t998.4\t28.3\t(209)\n200.\tKuta Papercuts 961\t998.2\t18.5\t(207)\n201.\tGreat Expectations 972\t998.0\t2.3\t(195)\n202.\tCobra's Killers 942\t996.4\t31.7\t(205)\n203.\tCherry Bombers 971\t995.6\t1.2\t(196)\n204.\tJayson's Kinky Pucks 943\t989.9\t26.9\t(204)\n205.\tKiller Apes 947\t989.7\t24.3\t(208)\n206.\tKaufbeuren Icebreakers 929\t989.1\t37.6\t(202)\n207.\tUmpire 4 life 950\t987.8\t11.1\t(200)\n208.\tRoger Smith 927\t987.0\t39.6\t(210)\n209.\tFirebirds 960\t983.8\t3.9\t(203)\n210.\tThose 1st few weeks hurt! 905\t982.9\t55.9\t(211)\n211.\tIKEA Wholesale 958\t982.0\t1.7\t(213)\n212.\tOutlaws 903\t975.6\t164.9\t(206)\n213.\tThe 200 Club 944\t969.4\t6.8\t(219)\n214.\tThundering Herd 887\t966.7\t163.6\t(212)\n215.\tBelieve it or dont 926\t966.6\t21.1\t(214)\n216.\tCreeping Death 924\t965.7\t21.3\t(217)\n217.\tKnee Injuries 932\t965.6\t10.4\t(218)\n218.\tCrazy Euros 927\t965.3\t17.9\t(220)\n219.\tFrack Attack 918\t965.0\t27.3\t(221)\n\tTodd's Turkeys 942\t965.0\t1.9\t(222)\n221.\tRyan's Renegades 893\t961.7\t50.9\t(223)\n222.\tfred mckim 889\t961.5\t93.0\t(215)\n223.\t400 Hurricane 909\t960.4\t32.1\t(216)\n224.\tpig vomit 936\t958.3\t1.3\t(225)\n225.\tIce Strykers 882\t955.4\t105.4\t(226)\n226.\tFighting Geordies 882\t953.7\t141.6\t(227)\n227.\tCDN Stuck in Alabama 925\t951.6\t10.3\t(228)\n228.\tdayton bomber 932\t951.5\t0.0\t(236)\n229.\tCafall and Crew 892\t948.2\t38.3\t(224)\n230.\tChris of Death 872\t945.0\t83.6\t(232)\n231.\tSwillbellies 902\t941.9\t18.7\t(230)\n232.\tBanko's Beer Rangers 913\t940.4\t4.2\t(233)\n\tZipper Heads 892\t940.4\t33.9\t(237)\n234.\tNY Flames 907\t938.8\t7.8\t(234)\n235.\tShip's Way 913\t938.7\t8.7\t(229)\n236.\tLaubsters II 861\t937.6\t201.6\t(235)\n237.\tOz 878\t934.1\t35.0\t(231)\n238.\tJoliet Inmates 872\t933.5\t45.8\t(239)\n239.\tNinja Bunnies 858\t925.9\t44.9\t(238)\n240.\tGreat Scott 853\t924.6\t73.3\t(242)\n241.\tWidefield White Wolves 861\t919.7\t36.9\t(240)\n242.\tThe Ice Holes 890\t912.7\t2.7\t(246)\n243.\tSANDY'S SABRES 886\t910.8\t4.7\t(244)\n244.\tDaves Team 858\t910.7\t32.0\t(241)\n245.\tSouth Carolina Tiger Paws 835\t909.0\t78.4\t(243)\n246.\tFlorida Tech Burgh Team 844\t908.9\t49.3\t(245)\n247.\tLeos Blue Chips 874\t902.5\t10.4\t(247)\n248.\tFor xtc 874\t900.0\t8.2\t(248)\n249.\troadrunners 861\t899.7\t18.5\t(249)\n250.\tMudville Kings 851\t897.8\t27.6\t(250)\n251.\tNew Jersey Rob 876\t894.2\t0.7\t(253)\n252.\tRedliners 856\t893.3\t15.9\t(251)\n253.\tPat Phillips 859\t887.6\t10.1\t(252)\n254.\tStewart Clamen 851\t869.6\t1.6\t(254)\n255.\tDemon Spawn 820\t866.1\t25.0\t(255)\n256.\tSunnyvale Storm 804\t818.4\t0.2\t(256)\n257.\tAllez les Blues 738\t809.1\t476.9\t(257)\n258.\tUp For Sale Hockey Club 749\t789.4\t23.0\t(258)\n259.\tPetes Picks 721\t788.0\t168.5\t(259)\n260.\tRINACO 709\t781.8\t114.0\t(260)\n261.\tBrenz Revenge 691\t713.3\t4.0\t(261)\n262.\tDinamo Riga 595\t663.9\t571.6\t(262)\n-- \nAndrew Scott | andrew@idacom.hp.com\nHP IDACOM Telecom Operation | (403) 462-0666 ext. 253", "\nPray for the Wings to become lazy and overconfident...the Wings\ncan only lose the series...Toronto cannot win it. Take away\nDoug Gilmour and the Leafs are an old Tampa Bay.\n\nThe Leafs deserve a lot of credit for their diligent effort\nduring the regular season...but if Detroit puts in a reasonable\neffort, this is not a contest.", "Well, the Red Sox have apparenly resigned Herm Winningham to a AAA contract.\nTed \"Larry\" Simmons signed him to a AAA contract then released him from\nBuffalo, allowing Lou \"Curly\" Gorman to circumvent the rule about not\nresigning free agents until May 1. Clearly, neither of these guys is bright\nenough to be Moe.\n\n Mike Jones | AIX High-End Development | mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com", "On Tuesday, when it was raining in Chicago, ESPN provided \nbonus hockey coverage. Now it seems as though some fans are ticked off\nthat the NY-Wash OT was replaced with the Angels-?? game. People must\nrealize that there are more baseball fans instead of hockey fans in the U.S \nThe baseball game was scheduled to air and advertisers money was paid so\nthey can't skip the baseball game. Why don't you people CHILL OUT\nand enjoy whatever coverage you can get.", "\n\n\nUnfortunately, you seem to lack the ability to rate players. Dave\nWinfield has had a better career than half the people in the Hall of\nFame. Eddie Murray and Darrel Evans are both one of the top 100 players\nof all time. Lee Smith has had probably the greatest long career\nof any relief pitcher since 1960, with the possible exception of Gossage.\n\nOn the other hand, Kingman probably isn't one of the best 750 players\nof all time.\n\nAnd Reardon, though a good pitcher, isn't in Smith's class career wise.\n\n\n\nWe're talking 2 of the top 50 players of all time here. There probably\naren't 5 shortstops in history who were better than these two.\n\n\nGarvey sucked. Morris, while a very good pitcher, simply doesn't\nbelong near Cooperstown.\n\n Gee, can these guys even compare to\n\nIf Puckett and Ryan (okay, no if there) get into to the Hall, they will be \nmarginal Hall of Famers (unless Puckett keeps hitting like he did last year for\na while longer)\n\nTo put this in perspective, here's a listing of the linear weights\nvalues of the careers of the players you mention. In parenthesis\nis how high they are up on the greatest ever list if they make it.\nWhile no one would claim these are perfect rankings, they should give\nyou a good value of these guys' careers as compared to average players.\n\nRobin Yount 43.0 (41)\nOzzie Smith 42.1 (45)\nDave Winfield 40.3 (53)\nEddie Murray 37.5 (68)\nDarrel Evans 35.2 (80)\nKirby Puckett 24.3 (180)\nNolan Ryan 21.6 (219)\nJack Morris 11.8 (478)\nDave Kingman 0.4 \nSteve Garvey -5.8\n\nTo give you an idea of how these numbers compare to those in the Hall:\nOf the 71 eligible players whose career stats equaled 35.0, 64 are in the Hall\nof Fame. The ones who aren't include 4 19th century players, Ron Santo, Bobby\nGrich, and Bob Johnson.\n\nOf those eligible who score between 30.0 and 34.9, 15 of 25 are in. Of\nthose eligible who score between 25.0 and 29.9, 24 of 44 are in.\n", "Have the rules for goalies' equipment changed? It seems that e.g. glove\nhas become bigger and bigger all the time (and pads too), and the goalies are\nwearing \"over size\" jerseys. Am I dreaming? If you watch old photos or\nfilms let say about ten years back, I think the difference is quite obvious.\nWho is an expert on this, please let me know. (Or have the goalies become\nbigger?)", " # 179 Czech Republic # 180 Republic of Slovakia They were admitted early\n this year. Liechenstein was also recently admitted. Also San Marino.\n Both within the last 12 months. Incredible what passes for a nation-sta\n state nowadays.\n", "Can anyone out there tell me why they call left-handed pitchers\n\"Southpaw\"?\n\nAlso the story on how the term originated.\n\nThanks!! \n\n\nGo Cubs! ", "I am curious to known if there are any professional sports teams whose\ngames are regularly broadcast on an FM station. The only one I am\naware of is WYSP in Philadelphia who carries the Eagles' games.\n\nIf you respond to me I will summarize for the list.", "[...]\n\n\nTim Wallach can be explained with the rabbitball. Deion can be explained\nas \"learning how to play the game\". I'm not betting that Deion will be able\nto play as well as last year, but I think the odds of Deion playing as well\nor better than he did last year are better than the odds of Otis Nixon\ndoing the same thing. When you factor in defense, Otis was more valuable last\nyear. But I'm not convinced he'll be more valuable this year, and especially\nnext year.\n-- \nDale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Baseball fanatic", "\tThe Jets gave the Canucks another run for their money in an almost\nidentical game to the first of the series but once again came up short as\nVancouver outscored Winnipeg 3-2.\n\tThe pattern of the first game was repeated tonight, with the Canucks\nscoring quickly and then going to sleep in the second period, only to stave\noff a Jet comeback with opportune goals from their greater talent. The Jets\nlooked more dangerous in this one but it didn't make a difference in the \nnumbers that counted: goals.\n\tVancouver's big line produced again, with centre Cliff Ronning and\nleft winger Geoff Courtnall scoring in the first and in the second to \nboost the Canucks to a 2-0 lead on giveaways by the suspect Jet defence of\nBautin and Ulanov. Mental lapses by the defence and goal-scoring talent\nin opportune areas made the difference in all three Canuck goals.\n\tHowever, as in the first game, the Jets worked hard to take the\ngame to the Canucks in the second period. The Jets dominated the second,\nchecking hard and penetrating the Vancouver zone without being challenged\nby a Canuck team that wanted to pack it in early. \n\tThe hard work paid off late in the second, when Tie Domi caught\nVancouver goalie Kirk McLean by surprise with a sharp angle shot to make\nthe score 2-1. \n\tDomi's goal gave the Jets new life as they began to take the rush\nto the Canuck's collapsing defence. The Canucks were unwilling to do \nanything but let McLean take shots and clear the rebounds. The Jets were\nallowed to set up and make plays.\n\tBoth goalies made standup saves as the play picked up considerably.\nMcLean made three great saves in the second off a dancing Teammu Selanne\nwhile Essensa was rocked by a Pavel Bure drive. Selanne looked dangerous\non the rush as the Jets pressed a series of attacks into the Canuck\nzone. The Canucks, on the other hand, looked like they were offering four\nchecking lines in an effort to preserve their slim lead.\n\tA series of minor penalties at the end of the second period\nresulted in a one man advantage for the Jets in the early third. The\nJet's Tempo Numminen drove a puck from the point through McLean's\nlegs and into the net to tie the game at 2-2.\n\tThe Canuck's discordant play picked up where it left off.\nThis was characterized by long lead passes that either never connected\nor were picked off by the Jets and individual rushes into a tight\nWinnipeg defence that were never supported.\n\tHowever, as in the first and second Canuck goals, a Jet defensive\nlapse (re: bonehead play) stalled the Winnipeg comeback. With the faceoff\nin the Winnipeg zone, Pavel Bure was left to stand in the crease with\nno Jet defender anywhere near him. Bure, who had been invisible in the\ngame up to that point, took a rebound and managed to roof it with a \nbackhand even though he was off balance. \n\tBy then it was too late for the Jets to come back. Essensa made it\nto the bench with one minute to go but the extra attacker did nothing\nfor their attack. Canucks 3, Winnipeg 2.\n\tNext game is Friday at Winnipeg with the Jets in the hole by two games.\n- 30 -\n\n\n", "This is message is only of interest to those going to \nInternational Symposium on Circuits and Systems that is being\nheld in Chicago this May.\n \n I checking to see if there is any people out there who would be\ninterested in getting together for a pickup game of soccer during \nthe off hours of the conference. If so could you e-mail me at:\n\nphilc@macs.ee.mcgill.ca\n\nI'll bring a ball. If you know someone who is going to the \nconference and you know that they are avid soccer players\nplease pass on this message to them. Also if someone in\nChicago is going to the conference please let me know if\nthere is any field near the hotel where we can play.\n\nThanks. Bye.", "Ok all you trivia buffs, I have a good one for you.\n\n1. Prior to the foul bunt rule what is the record for the most foul balls\nby 1 batter during one at bat?\n\n2. Total pitches?\n\n3. Who was the batter?\n\n4. Who was the pitcher?\n\n5. Same as 1-4 except after the foul bunt rule.\n\nAssociated data would be nice too (such as date, location, teams, etc.)", "\n\nWhat about U. Johnny Hodapp, the greatest 2nd baseman in Cleveland Indians\nhistory? 225 hits in 1930, consistantly over .300. A great, great second baseman.\n", "The Hawks win!! Jermey Roenick scored his 50 th goal and the Hawks put the\nLeafs in their place, the losers column. If the Leafs can not even beat the\nHawks in a match that had little or no meaning I will hate to see them against\nthe Wings. \n\nOh btw I laugh at rm, that jerky!!!\n\nGO HAWKS!!!", "Player Team GP G A Pts +/- PIM\n\n M.Lemieux PIT 3 4 2 6 2 0\n Francis PIT 3 1 5 6 5 4\n Oates BOS 3 0 6 6 1 2\n Yzerman DET 2 3 2 5 3 0\n Coffey DET 2 0 5 5 1 0\n D.Hunter WAS 3 5 0 5 -4 10\n Mogilny BUF 3 4 1 5 3 4\n Thomas NYI 3 2 3 5 6 0\n Lapointe QUE 3 1 4 5 2 2\n Johansson WAS 3 0 5 5 -1 4\n Carson LA 2 4 0 4 0 2\n Brown STL 2 1 3 4 1 2\n Fleury CAL 2 1 3 4 0 19\n G.Courtnall VAN 2 1 3 4 3 2\n Flatley NYI 2 0 4 4 3 2\n MacInnis CAL 2 0 4 4 -1 4\n Ferraro NYI 3 3 1 4 2 2\n McEachern PIT 3 3 1 4 4 8\n Neely BOS 3 3 1 4 1 4\n Turgeon NYI 3 3 1 4 5 0\n Bellows MON 3 2 2 4 0 0\n Jagr PIT 3 2 2 4 3 0\n Khmylev BUF 3 2 2 4 3 0\n Khristich WAS 3 2 2 4 0 2\n Hawerchuk BUF 3 1 3 4 0 2\n Hogue NYI 3 1 3 4 3 2\n Juneau BOS 3 1 3 4 0 6\n K.Stevens PIT 3 1 3 4 1 6\n L.Murphy PIT 3 1 3 4 2 0\n LaFontaine BUF 3 1 3 4 2 0\n Ramsey PIT 3 0 4 4 3 4\n Smehlik BUF 3 0 4 4 4 2\n Noonan CHI 2 3 0 3 0 0\n Gilmour TOR 2 2 1 3 -1 12\n Hull STL 2 2 1 3 0 0\n Otto CAL 2 2 1 3 2 2\n Reichel CAL 2 2 1 3 0 0\n Bure VAN 2 1 2 3 2 0\n Drake DET 2 1 2 3 2 0\n Linden VAN 2 1 2 3 4 2\n Nieuwendyk CAL 2 1 2 3 -1 2\n Roberts CAL 2 0 3 3 -2 4\n Young QUE 3 3 0 3 3 0\n B.Sweeney BUF 3 2 1 3 2 4\n S.Stevens NJ 3 2 1 3 -2 4\n Tocchet PIT 3 2 1 3 0 2\n Carpenter WAS 3 1 2 3 0 6\n J.Mullen PIT 3 1 2 3 2 2\n Ronning VAN 2 2 0 2 4 0\n Suter CAL 2 2 0 2 0 4\n Yawney CAL 2 2 0 2 3 4\n Adams VAN 2 1 1 2 2 0\n Chiasson DET 2 1 1 2 -1 4\n Craven VAN 2 1 1 2 2 2\n Cullen TOR 2 1 1 2 -1 0\n Dahlquist CAL 2 1 1 2 2 4\n King WIN 2 1 1 2 2 2\n Racine DET 2 1 1 2 6 14\n Rychel LA 2 1 1 2 1 19\n Shanahan STL 2 1 1 2 0 4\n Sheppard DET 2 1 1 2 2 0\n Sydor LA 2 1 1 2 0 4\n Barnes WIN 2 0 2 2 1 2\n Emerson STL 2 0 2 2 0 0\n Gill TOR 2 0 2 2 -2 0\n Granato LA 2 0 2 2 1 4\n Gretzky LA 2 0 2 2 -3 0\n Housley WIN 2 0 2 2 -2 0\n Janney STL 2 0 2 2 0 0\n King NYI 2 0 2 2 4 6\n Kozlov DET 2 0 2 2 1 2\n Sandstrom LA 2 0 2 2 -4 4\n Shuchuk LA 2 0 2 2 -1 2\n Vaske NYI 2 0 2 2 1 0\n Damphousse MON 3 1 1 2 0 0\n Elynuik WAS 3 1 1 2 -1 0\n Guerin NJ 3 1 1 2 0 4\n Hannan BUF 3 1 1 2 2 8\n Holik NJ 3 1 1 2 1 4\n Muller MON 3 1 1 2 0 0\n Sakic QUE 3 1 1 2 0 0\n Semak NJ 3 1 1 2 -2 0\n Sundin QUE 3 1 1 2 1 2\n Taglianetti PIT 3 1 1 2 3 6\n Tipett PIT 3 1 1 2 -1 6\n Barasso PIT 3 0 2 2 0 2\n Bondra WAS 3 0 2 2 1 0\n Carney BUF 3 0 2 2 3 4\n Cavallini WAS 3 0 2 2 0 2\n Desjardins MON 3 0 2 2 0 0\n Duchesne QUE 3 0 2 2 1 2\n Niedermayer NJ 3 0 2 2 -1 2\n Ricci QUE 3 0 2 2 3 2\n Ridley WAS 3 0 2 2 -1 0\n U.Samuelsson PIT 3 0 2 2 4 6\n Blake LA 1 0 1 1 2 0\n Borschevsky TOR 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Zelepukin NJ 1 0 1 1 -2 0\n B.Mullen NYI 2 1 0 1 -2 0\n Burr DET 2 1 0 1 -1 2\n Domi WIN 2 1 0 1 2 4\n Fedorov DET 2 1 0 1 2 2\n Felsner STL 2 1 0 1 1 0\n Howe DET 2 1 0 1 4 2\n Huddy LA 2 1 0 1 1 0\n Kurri LA 2 1 0 1 -2 2\n Lefebvre TOR 2 1 0 1 0 12\n Lidstrom DET 2 1 0 1 -1 0\n Lowry STL 2 1 0 1 1 2\n McSorley LA 2 1 0 1 -3 12\n Millen LA 2 1 0 1 2 4\n Mironov TOR 2 1 0 1 -1 2\n Numminen WIN 2 1 0 1 -2 0\n Paslawski CAL 2 1 0 1 -1 0\n Steen WIN 2 1 0 1 -4 0\n Ysebaert DET 2 1 0 1 0 0\n Anderson TOR 2 0 1 1 -2 2\n Berube CAL 2 0 1 1 1 15\n Chelios CHI 2 0 1 1 -1 2\n Ciccarelli DET 2 0 1 1 1 14\n Clark TOR 2 0 1 1 0 6\n Dahl CAL 2 0 1 1 2 6\n Dipietro MON 2 0 1 1 0 0\n Donnelly LA 2 0 1 1 1 2\n Ellett TOR 2 0 1 1 -3 0\n Gallant DET 2 0 1 1 1 4\n K.Brown CHI 2 0 1 1 1 0\n Kennedy DET 2 0 1 1 1 0\n Larmer CHI 2 0 1 1 0 0\n Matteau CHI 2 0 1 1 -1 2\n McLean VAN 2 0 1 1 0 0\n McRae STL 2 0 1 1 1 2\n Murzyn VAN 2 0 1 1 2 0\n Musil CAL 2 0 1 1 0 5\n Pearson TOR 2 0 1 1 -1 21\n Primeau DET 2 0 1 1 1 20\n Probert DET 2 0 1 1 0 6\n Ranheim CAL 2 0 1 1 2 0\n Robitaille LA 2 0 1 1 -4 2\n Roenick CHI 2 0 1 1 -1 0\n Selanne WIN 2 0 1 1 -2 0\n Shannon WIN 2 0 1 1 4 0\n Skrudland CAL 2 0 1 1 2 10\n Sutter CHI 2 0 1 1 -1 0\n Taylor LA 2 0 1 1 1 0\n Zhitnik LA 2 0 1 1 -2 2\n Barr NJ 3 1 0 1 0 6\n Bourque BOS 3 1 0 1 -2 2\n Burridge WAS 3 1 0 1 -2 0\n Dionne MON 3 1 0 1 0 0\n Heinze BOS 3 1 0 1 0 0\n Leschyshyn QUE 3 1 0 1 1 4\n Presley BUF 3 1 0 1 0 0\n Rucinsky QUE 3 1 0 1 1 2\n Smolinski BOS 3 1 0 1 -1 2\n Wood BUF 3 1 0 1 -1 4\n Brunet MON 3 0 1 1 0 0\n Daniels PIT 3 0 1 1 1 0\n Donato BOS 3 0 1 1 -5 0\n Driver NJ 3 0 1 1 -3 4\n Gusarov QUE 3 0 1 1 2 0\n Houlder BUF 3 0 1 1 0 0\n K.Samuelsson PIT 3 0 1 1 2 0\n Kamensky QUE 3 0 1 1 1 4\n Krygier WAS 3 0 1 1 0 4\n Loney PIT 3 0 1 1 2 0\n May WAS 3 0 1 1 1 2\n Miller WAS 3 0 1 1 -3 0\n Odelein MON 3 0 1 1 0 0\n Pivonka WAS 3 0 1 1 -1 0\n Shaw BOS 3 0 1 1 -2 4\n Straka PIT 3 0 1 1 0 0\n Belanger MON 1 0 0 0 0 0\n Chorske NJ 1 0 0 0 0 0\n Druce WIN 1 0 0 0 0 0\n Eagles WIN 1 0 0 0 0 0\n Errey BUF 1 0 0 0 0 4\n Ewen MON 1 0 0 0 0 0\n Foligno TOR 1 0 0 0 0 16\n Goulet CHI 1 0 0 0 0 0\n Grimson CHI 1 0 0 0 0 2\n Hughes BOS 1 0 0 0 0 2\n Kovalenko QUE 1 0 0 0 0 2\n Leeman MON 1 0 0 0 0 0\n McLlwain TOR 1 0 0 0 -2 0\n Osbourne TOR 1 0 0 0 -1 2\n Richer NJ 1 0 0 0 -4 0\n Roberge MON 1 0 0 0 0 0\n Schneider MON 1 0 0 0 0 0\n Watters LA 1 0 0 0 1 4\n Weimer BOS 1 0 0 0 -1 4\n Andreychuk TOR 2 0 0 0 -2 2\n Ashton CAL 2 0 0 0 -1 2\n Babych VAN 2 0 0 0 2 2\n Baron STL 2 0 0 0 0 6\n Bassen STL 2 0 0 0 0 4\n Baumgartner TOR 2 0 0 0 0 0\n Bautin WIN 2 0 0 0 -2 2\n Belfour CHI 2 0 0 0 0 0\n Berg TOR 2 0 0 0 -1 4\n Billington NJ 2 0 0 0 0 0\n Blue BOS 2 0 0 0 0 0\n Borsato WIN 2 0 0 0 -2 0\n Bozon STL 2 0 0 0 0 0\n Butcher STL 2 0 0 0 2 0\n Cheveldae DET 2 0 0 0 0 2\n Conacher LA 2 0 0 0 2 0\n Corkum BUF 2 0 0 0 0 0\n Diduck VAN 2 0 0 0 2 2\n Dirk VAN 2 0 0 0 0 2\n Erickson WIN 2 0 0 0 -1 0\n Essensa WIN 2 0 0 0 0 2\n Gilbert CHI 2 0 0 0 0 0\n Graham CHI 2 0 0 0 0 0\n Hardy LA 2 0 0 0 -1 10\n Hedican STL 2 0 0 0 0 0\n Hrudey LA 2 0 0 0 0 0\n J.Lemieux CHI 2 0 0 0 0 0\n Johansson CAL 2 0 0 0 -1 0\n Joseph STL 2 0 0 0 0 0\n Kasatonov NJ 2 0 0 0 -2 0\n Kennedy WIN 2 0 0 0 0 0\n Konstantinov DET 2 0 0 0 1 4\n Krushelnyski TOR 2 0 0 0 -2 0\n Lidster VAN 2 0 0 0 0 0\n Lumme VAN 2 0 0 0 2 4\n Macoun TOR 2 0 0 0 -1 6\n Marchment CHI 2 0 0 0 1 6\n Miller STL 2 0 0 0 0 0\n Momesso VAN 2 0 0 0 -1 2\n Moog BOS 2 0 0 0 0 0\n Muni CHI 2 0 0 0 -1 0\n Murphy CHI 2 0 0 0 -1 4\n Murray CHI 2 0 0 0 0 0\n Nedved VAN 2 0 0 0 -2 2\n Olausson WIN 2 0 0 0 -1 2\n Pearson QUE 2 0 0 0 0 0\n Potvin TOR 2 0 0 0 0 6\n Quintal STL 2 0 0 0 -1 0\n Ramage MON 2 0 0 0 0 0\n Ri.Sutter STL 2 0 0 0 0 0\n Rouse TOR 2 0 0 0 -2 0\n Russell CHI 2 0 0 0 0 0\n Ruuttu CHI 2 0 0 0 1 0\n S.Richer BOS 2 0 0 0 -1 0\n S.Smith CHI 2 0 0 0 -2 4\n Sandlak VAN 2 0 0 0 -2 0\n Semenov VAN 2 0 0 0 0 0\n Stern CAL 2 0 0 0 -1 26\n T.Hunter VAN 2 0 0 0 0 2\n T.Sweeney BOS 2 0 0 0 0 0\n Terreri NJ 2 0 0 0 0 0\n Tkachuk WIN 2 0 0 0 -3 10\n Ulanov WIN 2 0 0 0 -1 4\n Valk VAN 2 0 0 0 0 2\n Vernon CAL 2 0 0 0 0 2\n Wilson STL 2 0 0 0 0 4\n Zezel TOR 2 0 0 0 -2 2\n Zhamnov WIN 2 0 0 0 -1 0\n Zombo STL 2 0 0 0 -1 4\n Albelin NJ 3 0 0 0 -1 0\n Anderson WAS 3 0 0 0 -1 0\n Audette BUF 3 0 0 0 -1 4\n Bodger BUF 3 0 0 0 3 0\n Brisebois MON 3 0 0 0 0 0\n C.Lemieux NJ 3 0 0 0 -4 17\n Carbonneau MON 3 0 0 0 0 0\n Cavallini QUE 3 0 0 0 0 0\n Cote WAS 3 0 0 0 -3 0\n D.Sweeney BOS 3 0 0 0 -2 4\n Daigneault MON 3 0 0 0 0 0\n Dalgarno NYI 3 0 0 0 -3 0\n Daneyko NJ 3 0 0 0 -1 2\n Douris BOS 3 0 0 0 -3 0\n Fetisov NJ 3 0 0 0 -5 0\n Finn QUE 3 0 0 0 -1 0\n Fitzgerald NYI 3 0 0 0 0 0\n Foote QUE 3 0 0 0 1 0\n Fuhr BUF 3 0 0 0 0 2\n G.Roberts BOS 3 0 0 0 -1 4\n Haller MON 3 0 0 0 0 0\n Hatcher WAS 3 0 0 0 -1 2\n Healy NYI 3 0 0 0 0 0\n Hextall QUE 3 0 0 0 0 0\n Hough QUE 3 0 0 0 0 0\n Iafrate WAS 3 0 0 0 -2 0\n Jennings PIT 3 0 0 0 0 4\n Jones WAS 3 0 0 0 -2 5\n Kasparaitis NYI 3 0 0 0 0 4\n Keane MON 3 0 0 0 0 0\n Kimble BOS 3 0 0 0 0 0\n Krupp NYI 3 0 0 0 2 2\n Kvartalnov BOS 3 0 0 0 0 2\n LeClair MON 3 0 0 0 0 0\n Leach BOS 3 0 0 0 0 0\n Lebeau MON 3 0 0 0 0 0\n Ledyard BUF 3 0 0 0 -3 4\n Loiselle NYI 3 0 0 0 -1 2\n MacLean NJ 3 0 0 0 -4 4\n Malakov NYI 3 0 0 0 1 2\n May BUF 3 0 0 0 0 4\n McKay NJ 3 0 0 0 0 16\n Nicholls NJ 3 0 0 0 -4 4\n Nolan QUE 3 0 0 0 1 2\n Norton NYI 3 0 0 0 3 0\n Patterson BUF 3 0 0 0 -1 2\n Pilon NYI 3 0 0 0 1 22\n Poulin BOS 3 0 0 0 -4 0\n Roy MON 3 0 0 0 0 0\n Savard MON 3 0 0 0 0 0\n Simon QUE 3 0 0 0 -1 2\n Stapleton PIT 3 0 0 0 1 0\n Stastny NJ 3 0 0 0 -1 2\n Sutton BUF 3 0 0 0 2 0\n T.Green NYI 3 0 0 0 -3 0\n Tabaracci WAS 3 0 0 0 0 4\n Vukota NYI 3 0 0 0 -1 2\n Wesley BOS 3 0 0 0 1 0\n Wolanin QUE 3 0 0 0 1 4\n-- ", "\n\nRoberts played in last night game against the Sharks and got a goal (38th)\nand an assist.\n\nThis definitely bolsters Calgary's chances in the playoffs.\n\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tRahim Hirji\n\n\n ", "what did happen to the swiss team ? last year they reached the semi-final\nand now after 3 matches no points and even no goals !!\nafter the 0:1 against Italy it seems they lost any hope and were\noverrun 0:6 by the russian team.\nnow it seems that they have to work hard not to be relegated to the\nB-level. does anybody know if this WC is the qualification tournement for\nthe olympic games '94 in Lillehammer or are some teams already\nqualified for them.", "\n\n\nI was under the impression that the objective is to find conclusive\nevidence that the puck _did_ cross the line. And, the replays I saw showed \nfairly conclusively that the puck did _not_ cross the goal line at any\ntime anyway. Somebody screwed up. \n", "\n ^^\n \n\n\nFunny you should mention it...this is exactly the case I was going to make.\n\n\nI will grant that a star like Mario will draw fans, even if the team sucks. \nBut this is short term only; I still do not think the attendance increase \nwill last, unless the team is a winning/competitive/improving/butt-kicking\none. Pittsburgh was still getting better, so people continued to support\nthem. If they suddenly dropped to, say, 50 points, you'd have knee surgery\nfor some of the people jumping off the bandwagon. \n\n\nOk. My numbers came from the NHL Guide and Record Book. \n\n\nYou can give the credit to Mario since he deserves it. But my point is that\nit wasn't Mario himself, but it was the *expectation* of things to come (i.e.\na winning team) that he created by being the next great hockey superstar. And\nbefore anybody jumps in and says I'm nit-picking and mincing words, go back\nand read from where this thread started...\n\nIt might help to think about what would go through a fan's mind who suddenly\nfound an interest in Mario and the Pens. Was it \"gee, Mario Lemieux is\namazing, I'll go watch him play\", or was it \"gee, now we've got a *kick*\n*ass* guy on *our* side, I'll go watch him play\". I think it was the latter.\n\n\nI don't think this is accurate. The *tickets* sell, but people don't go to\nthe games. I think this thread has already been discussed...season ticket\nholders in LA don't always use their tickets. So in effect, after the Kings\ninitial success following Gretzky's arrival (68 to 91 points, same source)\nand corresponding attendance jump, there has been an effective drop in\nattendance even though ticket sales may not have changed much. \n\nWhether or not the Kings are a 'winner' is debatable. I claim that since\nGretzky's arrival they have at the very least been competitive...I also claim\nthat McNall has made a stupid move in trying to reassemble the Oiler\ndynasty...but that's another story and included only because I don't like\nMcNall:-). Anyway, McNall did do some heavy marketing around Gretzky, and\nthat undoubtedly was also responsible for the attendance and merchandising\nsales, etc. But as I said, when the Kings have been in there little\ntailspins over the past couple of years there have been empty seats at the\nForum even if the tickets were sold.\n\n\nFor the short term, IMO. Although I think that it's inevitable that the team\nwill improve with a player such as Lemieux or Gretzky, simply because they\nmake people around them better.\n\n\nWell, at least we are in full agreement here!\n\n\nSo are you saying Roger has ever had a valid point? \n\n\nYes, but they are doing no worse than last year. I think the same type of\nreasoning I applied to a new Pittsburgh fan applies to all the extra people\nshowing up at Winnipeg games. It's difficult to predict, but do you think\nthat if the Jets miss the playoffs next season that in the year after they\nwill maintain their attendance levels? I seriously doubt it, because in that\ncase the expectation of an improving team would be gone, with or without\nSelanne.", "\nCould be. There is a Jayson Stark that writes weekly for some press syndicate \nand also for Baseball America.\n\n\nStark has done this sort of thing, but he has never been serious about it.\nHe usually states that this sort of projection is useless at the top of \nsuch columns. I think he did it one season and some manager was \"projected\" \nto be thrown out of 60 games and some hitter could expect to be plunked \n150 times.\n\nStark does some really funny stuff. His weekly baseball reviews are good \ncollections of strange things that happened during the previous week. He \nalso regularly prints Kinerisms.", "Well, I gotta tell ya,\n\nlast night's Leafs game vs the Devils was a nail-bitter LET ME TELL YOU!\nIt was a well played game by BOTH teams (I thought) but according to the\nDon and Ron it was the an \"off-night\" for the Leafs and the Devils \nwere outplaying Toronto. Well, I BEG to differ....\n\nIMHO, Clark deserved to be a first star as much as Gilmour did. His\nfast breaks towards the net and the good opportunites that he\ncreated reminded me of the Clark of old. (But not to take any of the\ncredit away from Gilmour).\n\nI think the Leafs are playing GREAT hockey. WHY? \nWell first look at their injury list which includes, Cullen, Ellet,\nZezel, Macoun. Of course my question is this....how will the Leafs\nfare when they are once again \"healthy\" if they are playing this well\nso far??\n\nSecond, just look at their standings, still second in defence,\nmoved from 11th overall to 6th over in the last month, haven't lost\nat home in last 12 games, 8 game undefeated streak..etc.\n(BTW, am I wrong or was this Potvin's first shut-out? I can't \nremember him having any as of yet.)\n\nWell, as of April 3 we see that the race for first in the Norris\nhas truly begun and it will be a VERY CLOSE race between Chicago and\nToronto. And the best game of the season will probably be their last\nagainst each other. (is anyone lucky enough to have tickets to\nsee this one?)\n\nComing to the stretch and still a ROAR'IN!!!!!\nGo LEAFS Go!!!!", "Have Belfour and Roenick done another disappearing act at chips are \n down time? When I saw them it looked like the Blackhawks' defense\n might carry them along way in the playoffs. \n\n Well they held St. Louis to 17 shots in game 2 and lost.", "\n\n\n\n\n\nLori, the regular Penguins poster here on rec.sport.hockey, indicated to me\nvia e-mail that on the nights that Pirates baseball and Penguins playoff \ngames coincide, the Pens will be covered on WDVE FM (102.5).", "\n\n\n\n\nYes, but\n\n\t(a) we were talking about peak level, not career averages\nand\n\t(b) Clemente was the best fielding RF of all time, as far\n\t as anyone can tell\n\nI did a quick scan last night, looking for players with a peak comparable\nto or better than Winfield. In my quick-n-dirty subjective judgement, you\ncould make good cases for Ruth, Aaron, Ott, Robinson, Clemente, Kaline, \nMaris, Klein, Jackson, Waner, and probably a few others. This is not a\nknock on Winfield, but a comment on his consistency: all of those other\nplayers had awesome stretches and very good stretches, while Winfield has\nbeen more uniformly excellent. Hall of Fame? Absolutely. Top-10 peak?\nI'm not so sure. Top 10 total career value? Yes, almost certainly.\n\n", "Does anyone out there have the shorthanded goal totals of the NHL players\nfor this season? We're trying to finish our rotisserie stats and need SHG\nto make it complete.\n\n", "Everyone keeps talking about European expansion by 2010 thinking\nwishful thoughts, but being totally off the ball.\n\nThe league format we use here is incompatible with that in Europe.\n(for those that don't know, the best teams from lower divisions get\npromoted and the worst get demoted).\n\nWould European fans put up with our \"if you've paid, you can play\" \nattitude??\n\nHow long would they support teams that are run on Ranger-based \ncorporate thinking (I use the term lightly). (We don't need a good\nproduct because these duffuses in NYC would fill the arena for Ottawa's\nrecord every year......1940!! haha (sorry, had ta say it)).\n\nIf hockey (and other pro sports) had a similar system to Europe, maybe\nteams like the Rangers would be forced to compete (or get demoted the fourth \ndivision). We'd have many more teams...centres that aren't as big (like\nHalifax or Adirondack....ok, so Halifax isn't a good example) would \neventually get promoted, and every team would be somewhat competetive within\nits own division (unlike Ottawa, SJ, Edmonton, etc.). Fans would eventually\nget rewarded for their loyalty (or penalized for their neglect), and the\nleague would be more interesting and dynamic every year because of the influx\nof newly promoted teams (and the Halifax Citadels win the Stanley Cup...I can\ndream, can't I??)\n\nLook at British (or any European) soccer as an example (they never have fan\nproblems).\n\nJust someone who thinks our system really sucks\n\nBarfly\n\n(feel free to flame me, my account ends today...hahahaha)", "I can only comment on the Kings, but the most obvious candidate for pleasant\nsurprise is Alex Zhitnik. He came highly touted as a defensive defenseman, but\nhe's clearly much more than that. Great skater and hard shot (though wish he\nwere more accurate). In fact, he pretty much allowed the Kings to trade away\nthat huge defensive liability Paul Coffey. Kelly Hrudey is only the biggest\ndisappointment if you thought he was any good to begin with. But, at best, he's\nonly a mediocre goaltender. A better choice would be Tomas Sandstrom, though\nnot through any fault of his own, but because some thugs in Toronto decided \nto threaten his career in order to avoid conceding a goal. Other than that, the\naward goes to Robert Lang, an uninspiring Czech. Robitaille could easily be\nMVP, but I'd prefer to give it to Rob Blake who is quietly becoming one of the\nleague's premier defensemen, and if the Kings manage to hold onto him and the \nrest of our young defense, it could one day mean that we'll let in fewer\ngoals than Hartford. Honorable mentions to Majestic Marty and Warren Rychel.\nJon\n", "\nWhat did this have to do with SF? And please don't answer\nthat a number of libertarians are SF fans or vice versa. I know a \nnumber of SF fans who are also baseball fans but I don't plan on \nposting the Red Sox schedule.\n", "\nare you serious? pitchers are pinch-hit for in the nl. they are not in the\nnl. if a pitcher is cranking in the al, he will stay in the game. if he\nis cranking in the nl, he may not - ESPECIALLY if it's a pitchers' duel,\nand his team needs an extra run.", "Name Pos AB H 2B 3B HR RBI RS SB E AVG\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGalarraga 1B 54 23 6 2 15 6 1 .426\nSheaffer C 3 1 .333\nBoston OF 28 9 3 8 .321\nCole CF 43 13 1 1 2 13 8 .302\nHayes 3B 46 13 2 3 11 7 2 3 .283\nBichette RF 39 10 1 3 10 8 1 .256\nE. Young 2B 51 13 2 1 1 7 12 9 3 .255\nTatum 3B 8 2 1 .250\nMurphy OF 8 2 2 .250\nClark LF 37 9 3 1 1 3 3 1 .243\nGirardi C 45 10 2 1 3 3 1 .222\nCastilla SS 7 1 1 .143\nBenavides SS 35 5 1 5 3 4 .143\nPITCHERS P 24 1 1 .042\nG. Young OF 3 2 1 .000\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTotals 431 112 19 4 10 61 66 21 14 .260\n\nName L/R GS CG IP H R ER K BB ERA W L S\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\nAldred L 6 4 3 1 3 8 1.50 0 0 0\nAshby R 2 0 11 12 3 3 5 9 2.45 0 0 0 \nWayne L 3.7 4 1 1 3 2 2.45 0 1 0\nNeid R 4 1 29 27 11 10 15 10 3.10 3 1 0\nParrett R 10 8 4 4 12 7 3.60 0 0 0\nSmith R 3 0 16.3 22 8 8 3 5 4.41 1 2 0\nBlair R 8 9 6 4 5 3 4.50 0 0 0\nRuffin L 2 0 9.3 15 7 5 7 6 4.82 1 1 0\nHenry L 2 0 12.7 14 9 8 5 5 5.68 0 2 0\nReed R 3.7 8 7 7 2 3 17.18 0 0 0\nHolmes R 2.3 8 10 9 3 4 34.71 0 1 0", "Heard last night that Paul Kuryia will be playing for the Canadian World\nHockey team this year. He was on a local radio station when a friend of\nthe familty called to congratulate him on the invitation. Meekly Paul told\nthe host that he didn't think they wanted it out yet. This morning I heard\nthat he is destined to play on a line with Lindros and Recci{unsure of this\none}. If he plays well in this arena, he could go #1 or 2 in the draft.\n", "\n I suppose a foul ball machine (like Brett Butler) is pretty valuable,\n but I'd rather watch (and root for) the lower OBP guys who can\n actually hit the ball.\n\nAnd I'd rather watch (and root for) a team that scores lots of runs\nand wins games.\n\nOf course, I'm rooting for the Rockies and Andres anyway. But that's\nfor irrational hometown reaons. I also root for Frank Thomas. :)", "I am planning a weekend in Chicago next month for my first live-and-in-person \nCubs game (!!!) I would appreciate any advice from locals or used-to-be locals \non where to stay, what to see, where to dine, etc.\n\nE-mail replies are fine...\n\nThanks in advance!\nTeresa", "\tFinns had to do their best last night when they played against Norway\nin world champs. After two periods the score was still 0-0. This game was \nquite much similar to the first game Finland played (against France).\nThe norwegian goalie was very good and a bit lucky, too. In the third period\nJuha Riihij{rvi scored 1-0 from a rebound, the time was around 5 mins or so.\nThe second goal was scored by Kari Harila, who shot straight from a faceoff\nbehind the Nowwegian goalie. Saku Koivu, the 18-year-old center got his first\npoint of this tournament. Saku Koivu played very well througout the game and he\nwas awarded the best player of the game- prize. Despite the fact that he is\nquite small in size he handles the puck very well and is a fast skater. \nI think that we will hear from this guy in the future.\n\n", "\nI really don't want to get into a DidSo-DidNot debate with you. But\nthis is somewhat at the heart of our disagreement. I did not say, \nnor did I imply, that I could predict the future. You have inferred\nthat my comments meant this, and you have based your rebuttal of my\ncomments on the fact that statistical studies have demonstrated that\nthere is no reasonable basis for predicting future performance in\nregard to clutch hitting.\n\n\nSabo\t\t1539\t452\t.294\t\t259\t59\t.228\nSamuel\t\t1564\t383\t.245\t\t278\t83\t.299\t\n\nThat is *your* opinion that Sabo is \"clearly a better hitter\" than\nSamuel. The above data is for a 4-year period ending last season.\nLast season Samuel batted .272 while Sabo hit .244 (not park adjusted).\nThis season they are both hitting below .200, albeit Sabo with more\nat bats. I will agree that over his career Sabo has been a better\nhitter than Samuel, but I will also remind you that Samuel has been\na better hitter in certain situations than Sabo.\n\nI did not predict that Sabo would choke, nor that Samuel would get a\nhit. I expressed my opinion that had I been the Reds manager (or\neven a Reds fan) that I would prefer to have Samuel hit in that\nsituation than Sabo.\n\n\n\nAh. \"properly\". Yes. I see.\n\n\nPlease help me. What, exactly, is \"everything else\" that pointed to Sabo?\n\n\n\nI must say, I was not aware of the publication. Can you email me the\ninformation regarding its availability?\n\nAnd I guess I must apologize to all of those who have done extensive \nstudy on, say, supply side economics. I didn't mean to insult you.\nBut I never did believe you were on the right path. I'm sorry for\nmy contrary opinion/position. I also regret that I don't have the\nability to prove that you are wrong. But you are.\n \n\n\nIt is what it says it is!\n\n\n\nThe \"second\" is *your* statement, not mine.\n\nWell, actually, I haven't yet. But I'm not finished looking.\nThat is, I haven't yet found someone who hit significantly below\nhis overall batting average in clutch situations for the years \n1989 - 91, and then reversed that relationship in 1992.\n\n\n\nNope. Sorry. But if you were interested in a reason why I expect\nChris Sabo's ability to hit in the clutch to correlate from one\nyear to the next, I think I could. If you were interested in a\nreason why I expect Joe Carter's ability to hit in the clutch to\ncorrelate from one year to the next, I think I could. But you're\nnot interested in that, because you think that those conclusions\ncould only be valid if they could be extrapolated over the entire\nbaseball population. And they can't be.\n\n\n\nThe problem here is that I *do* believe you. I accept your work.\nI believe that trying to predict future clutch performance based\non prior clutch history is meaningless. No better than a coin toss.\nI actually *do* accept your work.\n\nAs it happens, I also have an *opinion* that in certain situations,\nfor certain players, a history of superior or inferior ability to\nhit in the clutch might suggest a reason what such history could be\nvalid in projecting future player performance. For that player.\nAnd Chris Sabo is one such player.\n\n\n\nWell, since I defer to your statistical wisdom, I think I must have\nan open mind. Now we have to pose the same question to you.\n\n\n\n\n--\tThe Beastmaster\n\n\n", "Stanley Cup Playoff stats through games played Sunday, April 25 1993\n--------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nTop 20 Point Scorers\nRnk Pts G A PG SG GW EN PIM Cty Tm Ps # Player\n--- --- -- --- -- -- -- -- --- --- --- -- -- ------\n 1 9 0 9 0 0 0 0 4 CAN BOS C 12 Adam Oates\n 2 8 5 3 4 0 2 0 0 USA STL RW 16 Brett Hull\n 3 7 6 1 2 0 0 0 6 RUS BUF RW 89 Alexander Mogilny\n 3 7 4 3 1 1 0 0 4 CAN PIT C 66 Mario Lemieux\n 3 7 3 4 2 1 0 0 19 CAN CAL RW 14 Theoren Fleury\n 3 7 2 5 1 0 0 0 12 CAN TOR C 93 Doug Gilmour\n 3 7 1 6 0 0 0 0 0 CAN DET D 77 Paul Coffey\n 3 7 1 6 0 0 0 0 0 USA BUF C 16 Pat LaFontaine\n 9 6 4 2 0 0 2 0 4 CAN NYI C 20 Ray Ferraro\n 9 6 3 3 0 0 1 0 2 RUS VAN RW 10 Pavel Bure\n 9 6 3 3 1 0 1 0 0 RUS BUF LW 13 Yuri Khmylev\n 9 6 3 3 1 0 1 0 6 CAN VAN RW 16 Trevor Linden\n 9 6 2 4 1 0 0 0 2 CAN BUF C 10 Dale Hawerchuk\n 9 6 2 4 1 0 2 0 0 USA STL C 15 Craig Janney\n 9 6 2 4 2 0 0 0 6 CAN BOS C 49 *Joe Juneau\n 9 6 2 4 0 0 0 1 6 CAN CAL C 25 Joe Nieuwendyk\n 9 6 1 5 0 0 0 0 4 CAN STL D 21 Jeff Brown\n 9 6 1 5 0 0 1 0 4 CAN PIT C 10 Ron Francis\n\nTop 10 Goal Scorers\nRnk Pts G A PG SG GW EN PIM Cty Tm Ps # Player\n--- --- -- --- -- -- -- -- --- --- --- -- -- ------\n 1 7 6 1 2 0 0 0 6 RUS BUF RW 89 Alexander Mogilny\n 2 8 5 3 4 0 2 0 0 USA STL RW 16 Brett Hull\n 2 5 5 0 3 0 1 0 14 CAN WAS C 32 Dale Hunter\n 4 7 4 3 1 1 0 0 4 CAN PIT C 66 Mario Lemieux\n 4 6 4 2 0 0 2 0 4 CAN NYI C 20 Ray Ferraro\n 4 5 4 1 0 0 1 0 6 CAN TOR LW 14 Dave Andreychuk\n 4 5 4 1 1 0 0 0 4 CAN BOS RW 8 Cam Neely\n 4 4 4 0 2 0 0 0 2 USA LA C 12 Jimmy Carson\n 4 4 4 0 0 0 2 0 0 USA QUE RW 48 Scott Young\n\nTop 10 Assist Scorers\nRnk Pts G A PG SG GW EN PIM Cty Tm Ps # Player\n--- --- -- --- -- -- -- -- --- --- --- -- -- ------\n 1 9 0 9 0 0 0 0 4 CAN BOS C 12 Adam Oates\n 2 7 1 6 0 0 0 0 0 CAN DET D 77 Paul Coffey\n 2 7 1 6 0 0 0 0 0 USA BUF C 16 Pat LaFontaine\n 4 7 2 5 1 0 0 0 12 CAN TOR C 93 Doug Gilmour\n 4 6 1 5 0 0 0 0 4 CAN STL D 21 Jeff Brown\n 4 6 1 5 0 0 1 0 4 CAN PIT C 10 Ron Francis\n 4 5 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 USA WIN D 6 Phil Housley\n 4 5 0 5 0 0 0 0 4 SWE WAS D 6 Calle Johansson\n 4 5 0 5 0 0 0 0 8 CAN CAL D 2 Al MacInnis\n\nTop 10 Power-play Goal Scorers\nRnk Pts G A PG SG GW EN PIM Cty Tm Ps # Player\n--- --- -- --- -- -- -- -- --- --- --- -- -- ------\n 1 8 5 3 4 0 2 0 0 USA STL RW 16 Brett Hull\n 2 5 5 0 3 0 1 0 14 CAN WAS C 32 Dale Hunter\n 3 7 3 4 2 1 0 0 19 CAN CAL RW 14 Theoren Fleury\n 3 7 6 1 2 0 0 0 6 RUS BUF RW 89 Alexander Mogilny\n 3 6 2 4 2 0 0 0 6 CAN BOS C 49 *Joe Juneau\n 3 5 2 3 2 0 0 0 6 CAN STL LW 19 Brendan Shanahan\n 3 4 4 0 2 0 0 0 2 USA LA C 12 Jimmy Carson\n 3 4 2 2 2 0 0 0 2 TCH CAL C 26 Robert Reichel\n 3 4 3 1 2 0 1 0 2 FIN WIN RW 13 *Teemu Selanne\n 3 3 2 1 2 0 1 0 6 CAN MON LW 25 Vincent Damphousse\n\nAll the Short-handed Goal Scorers\nRnk Pts G A PG SG GW EN PIM Cty Tm Ps # Player\n--- --- -- --- -- -- -- -- --- --- --- -- -- ------\n 1 7 3 4 2 1 0 0 19 CAN CAL RW 14 Theoren Fleury\n 1 7 4 3 1 1 0 0 4 CAN PIT C 66 Mario Lemieux\n 1 4 3 1 0 1 1 0 4 USA CAL C 29 Joel Otto\n 1 4 2 2 0 1 0 0 6 USA CAL D 20 Gary Suter\n 1 3 2 1 1 1 0 0 23 RUS DET C 91 Sergei Fedorov\n 1 2 1 1 0 1 0 0 10 CAN BOS C 19 Dave Poulin\n 1 1 1 0 0 1 0 0 4 CAN WIN C 38 Luciano Borsato\n 1 1 1 0 0 1 0 0 2 CAN DET LW 11 Shawn Burr\n 1 1 1 0 0 1 0 0 2 CAN STL LW 10 Dave Lowry\n 1 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 USA BUF RW 18 Wayne Presley\n\nTop 10 Game-winning Goal Scorers\nRnk Pts G A PG SG GW EN PIM Cty Tm Ps # Player\n--- --- -- --- -- -- -- -- --- --- --- -- -- ------\n 1 8 5 3 4 0 2 0 0 USA STL RW 16 Brett Hull\n 1 6 4 2 0 0 2 0 4 CAN NYI C 20 Ray Ferraro\n 1 6 2 4 1 0 2 0 0 USA STL C 15 Craig Janney\n 1 4 4 0 0 0 2 0 0 USA QUE RW 48 Scott Young\n 5 6 3 3 0 0 1 0 2 RUS VAN RW 10 Pavel Bure\n 5 6 1 5 0 0 1 0 4 CAN PIT C 10 Ron Francis\n 5 6 3 3 1 0 1 0 0 RUS BUF LW 13 Yuri Khmylev\n 5 6 3 3 1 0 1 0 6 CAN VAN RW 16 Trevor Linden\n 5 5 4 1 0 0 1 0 6 CAN TOR LW 14 Dave Andreychuk\n 5 5 5 0 3 0 1 0 14 CAN WAS C 32 Dale Hunter\n\nTop 5 Point Scoring Defensemen\nRnk Pts G A PG SG GW EN PIM Cty Tm Ps # Player\n--- --- -- --- -- -- -- -- --- --- --- -- -- ------\n 3 7 1 6 0 0 0 0 0 CAN DET D 77 Paul Coffey\n 9 6 1 5 0 0 0 0 4 CAN STL D 21 Jeff Brown\n 19 5 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 USA WIN D 6 Phil Housley\n 19 5 0 5 0 0 0 0 4 SWE WAS D 6 Calle Johansson\n 19 5 0 5 0 0 0 0 8 CAN CAL D 2 Al MacInnis\n\nTop 4 Rookie Point Scorers\nRnk Pts G A PG SG GW EN PIM Cty Tm Ps # Player\n--- --- -- --- -- -- -- -- --- --- --- -- -- ------\n 9 6 2 4 2 0 0 0 6 CAN BOS C 49 *Joe Juneau\n 33 4 3 1 0 0 1 0 8 USA PIT C 15 *Shawn McEachern\n 33 4 3 1 2 0 1 0 2 FIN WIN RW 13 *Teemu Selanne\n 33 4 0 4 0 0 0 0 2 TCH BUF D 42 *Richard Smehlik\n\nTop 5 Penalty Minute Leaders\nRnk Pts G A PG SG GW EN PIM Cty Tm Ps # Player\n--- --- -- --- -- -- -- -- --- --- --- -- -- ------\n 1 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 26 CAN DET LW 55 Keith Primeau\n 2 3 2 1 1 1 0 0 23 RUS DET C 91 Sergei Fedorov\n 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 22 CAN NYI D 47 Richard Pilon\n 4 2 1 1 0 0 0 0 21 CAN TOR RW 12 Rob Pearson\n 4 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 21 CAN WIN RW 20 Tie Domi", "Hello,\n\nCould someone tell me if and where i could find faceoff stats for the\n91/92 season and later on the 92/93 (i think its to early to get it now).\n\nThanks a lot", "I finally got it back, with great thanks to Mark Spiegel for saving and sending\nit.\n\n\n\n#2\tROB ZETTLER\t\tSeason:\t4th\nAcquired:\t'91-92, from Minnesota in dispersal draft\nGrade:\t\tC/C-\n\nZettler gave the Sharks every bit he's got this year; unfortunately, this still\nwasn't enough to make him any more than a marginal NHLer, if that. He works\nhard, for sure, but is no better than average on defense, and is prone to\ncostly penalties and defensive lapses at times, while being basically an\noffensive zero (0 goal and 7 assists in 79 games). He would be hardpressed\nto make the team next year.\n\n#3\tDAVID WILLIAMS\t\tSeason: 2nd\nAcquired:\t'91-92, free agent from New Jersey\nGrade:\t\tC/C-\n\nIMO, Williams was the most valuable defenseman for the Sharks in '91-92,\nplaying a combination of good offense (3 goals and 25 assists in 56 games) and\ngood defense. But he, playing the first part of this season in Kansas City,\nwas good neither offensively nor defensively this year; it, then, appears that\n'91-92 was a fluke. Although he improved towards the end of the season, he\nwas prone to being out of position defensively, and did not demonstrate the\nplaymaking skills that made him the team's leading scorer among defensemen last\nyear. He would also be hardpressed to make the team next year.\n\n#4\tJAYSON MORE\t\tSeason: 2nd\nAcquired:\t'91-92, from Montreal in expansion draft\nGrade:\t\tB+\n\nAfter being touted as the team's top defensive prospects in training camp\nbefore '91-92, More had a rather disappointing '91-92, as he was not\nparticularly good defensively, and had just 17 points in 46 games. He, then,\nproceeded to improve his game massively this season, becoming the team's most\nreliable defenseman, whom the team can count on night in and night out to play\nsteady defense and providing occasional (but only occasional) offensive flash.\nOffensively, he was even more disappointing than last year (11 points in 73\ngames), but his defense improved tremendously. He is probably best as the\ndefensive part of a defense combination with an offensive defenseman.\n\n#5\tNEIL WILKINSON\t\tSeason: 4th\nAcquired:\t'91-92, from Minnesota in dispersal draft\nGrade:\t\tB-\n\nWilkinson was probably the team's top defensive defenseman in '91-92. However,\npartially because of injuries, he was not the same this year, as he missed 25\ngames total due to nagging knee and back injuries, and seemed to be slowed\neven when playing. He, then, had often to be saved by his defensive partners;\nthat is, if they are there at all. But he also had some solid games, and if\nhe can be complete healthy, he can still be a force.\n\n#6\tSANDIS OZOLINSH\t\tSeason: 1st\nAcquired:\t'91-92, 2nd round pick in entry draft\nGrade:\t\tI (A)\n\nAt the time of his injury (December 30, against the Philadelphia Flyers),\nOzolinsh was well on track to be, IMO, the team's MVP. A serious knee injury\nin that game, though, forced him to miss the rest of the season (47 games),\nbut he still finished as the team's top scorer among defensemen (23 points),\nwhich, of course, tells more about the lack of offense the Sharks had from\ntheir defensemen, but it also tells of Ozolinsh's abilities. At the time, he\nwas playing very good defense along with excellent offense; he was still\nsusceptible to so-called \"rookie mistakes,\" but was probably the defenseman who\nmade the least of them on the team, rookie or veteran. If he can come back\nfrom his injuries, he is ready to be a star.\n\n#19\tDOUG ZMOLEK\t\tSeason: 1st\nAcquired:\t'91-92, from Minnesota in dispersal draft\nGrade:\t\tB\n\nZmolek had basically a solid and durable year, being one of the only two Sharks\nto play in all 84 games of the season. He was solid on defense, but\nafter being billed as an offensive defenseman, he didn't show it (15 points).\nHe was also prone to penalties, and his 229 penalty minutes was second on the\nteam; however, that was also an indication that he was fearly when facing tough\nphysical opponents, and he was at his best when playing physically. But to\nbecome a fixture in this league, he needs to improve both offensively and\ndefensively, and cut down on the number of power-plays he gives to opponents.", "As the Sharks' season came to a close tonight, I will start a series of posts,\ntrying to revisit the players, the trades, the moves, etc., that went through\nfor the Sharks for the past season. If you are uninterested, since I will\nhave the words SHARKS REVIEW in the subject heading in these postings, you can\nkill them.\n\nI will first try to evaluate how the players did. These ratings, of course,\nare subject to my own biases, but I hope that I can try to be as objective as\npossible. I will evalute players who finished the season with the Sharks\nand/or did not play for another NHL team this season.\n\nThus, then, let's go to the goaltenders...\n\n#1\tBRIAN HAYWARD\t\tSeason:\t11th\nAcquired:\t'91-92 from Minnesota in dispersal draft\nGrade:\t\tP (D)\n\nIt is sad that his career has to come to this dim an end, a career that\nfeatured sharing three Jennings Trophies (with Patrick Roy, in '87, '88, and\n'89). It would indeed be unfair for me to do anything but give him a passing\ngrade (and skip the letter grading), but he had simply been awful on ice this\nyear, save for a bright spot or two, and even if he had been healthy, he would\nnot be any more than the 3rd-string goalie.\n\nBut Hayward was a classy individual, who also figured in on the Sharks' first\never victory, the 3rd game of the season last year against the Calgary Flames.\nAs he retires, the fans will remember what a good guy he was.\n\n#30\tJEFF HACKETT\t\tSeason: 3rd\nAcquired:\t'91-92, from N. Y. Islanders in expansion draft\nGrade:\t\tC\n\nHackett, after (deservedly) winning the team MVP honors last season, simply\nwasted the year. Other than a few good spots (57 saves against Los Angeles,\nalmost-shutout against Tampa Bay, etc.), Hackett, finishing with 85.6% save\npercentage and a 5.28 GAA, watched his status go from the team's #1 goalie to\nbench decoration at the end of the season. He was expected, early, to carry\nthe team along; instead, he apparently became frustrated, but the an early\ninjury that forced him to miss 12 games may have been a contributing factor,\nbut upon return, he simply wasn't up to the task. He may not return next\nyear.\n\n#31\tWADE FLAHERTY\t\tSeason: 1st (still eligible as rookie)\nAcquired:\t'91-92, signed as undrafted free agent\nGrade:\t\tI (A-)\n\nIt is pretty hard to evaluate a goaltender on just one game alone, thus the\nincomplete grade, but yet in the one start that he did get (against the Calgary\nFlames), Flaherty was nothing but sharp for at least two periods. He started\nthe season poorly in Kansas City, but finished strong, prompting the Blades'\nowner Ron Parker to comment that he should be a candidate for the IHL MVP\nhonors. The upcoming IHL playoffs would be a major challenge for him as he\ntries to make it into the NHL; last year, he was a capable backup for Arturs\nIrbe in the throughout the season and in the Turner Cup playoffs, picking up\nall-star honors along with Irbe; now it's time for him to show that he can\nshare the job with Irbe next year, because with prospects Dan Ryder, Trevor\nRobins, and Scott Cashman coming along, if he doesn't make it next year, he\nmay not ever.\n\n#32\tARTURS IRBE\t\tSeason:\t1st\nAcquired:\t'91-92, from Minnesota in dispersal draft\nGrade:\t\tB+\n\nI may yet be overly critical of Irbe in a year that he clearly established that\nhe's a bona fide NHL goaltender, perhaps a bona fide #1 goaltender. He has\nprovided most of the little highlight footage that the Sharks team had, getting\nthe team's first ever shut-out against the Los Angeles Kings on December 26.\nHe has been fearless in and out of the net, aggressively playing the puck and\nmaking passes, reminding people of a young Ron Hextall (except, of course, the\ngoonism). Yet he still needs to develop more consistency, which is hard to do\nwith such a bad defense in front of him, but if the Sharks are to challenge for\na playoff spot next season, Irbe's the key, as he demonstrated in being named\nas a star of the game 13 times in 32 starts.", "Add Mike Trombley in there somewhere, since they need five people. Mark\nGuthrie will remain in the bullpen as the long lefty.\n\nPags and Terry Jorgenson will platoon at third, with Reboulet as the\nbackup infielder. Pags looked pretty miserable yesterday for a guy who\nlead the league in DA in 1991, muffing what should be routine grounders\n(heck, muffing a grounder *I* would probably have gotten to). Jorgenson\ndid nothing exceptional that I noticed. Leius missed a ball I *think*\nGagne would have reached; we will certainly miss Gag's glove this season.\n\nHe looked pretty good there. Contrary to what the mediots have been saying,\nhe looked reasonable at first. He isn't mid-80s Hrbek, but then neither is\nthe Pretty Big Guy himself any more (note: I'm used to seeing the Twins\n1B looking kinda big on the field, but not that big!). If he hits vaguely\nlike last year, he's a perfectly good first baseman.\n\nNote: Much of this posting is from personal observation yesterday in a game\nwhere the regulars were mostly pulled after several innings. Winfield may\nhave big holes in his defensive game that didn't show up (he didn't have to\npick any bad throws, for example), but I'll take what I saw so far.", "\nSo, that is the reason why the Toronto Blue Jays *should* keep Alfredo\nGriffin, just because it \"worked\"?\n\nA team winning doesn't mean that everything that it's doing is right.\nA team not winning doesn't mean that everything that it's doing is wrong, or\notherwise (to borrow the Sharks' situation) you would say that George Kingston\nshould be fired.\n\n\nBy then, it's too late. The problem with \"not fixing something while it's\nworking\" is that by then, there may not be anything left to fix.\n\n\nSo, the Blue Jays were simply perfect last year; there was nothing that they\ncould have done to have improved that team. NOT.", "Charles Hubbert writes...\n\nChevy has let in 2 or 3 soft goals so far, but they all didn't matter.\nHowever, his recent history has been inconsistant play but comes up\nbig when it counts. The score was 4-0 I think when the goal you mentioned\nwas scored. In the third period when it looked like Toronto was coming\nback, Chevy was exceptional. I can see him as a Barraso style playoff\ngoalie: inconsistant when there's nothing on the line,\nbut comes up big when really needed. I guess we'll both find out.\n\nRon", "\n\nYes, that's him. Was I not specific enough?\n\nJust because someone consistently pulls the ball does not mean that\nthey have a quick bat. Dawson's release is slow, and he *IS* 38, after\nall. He may swing early, and rotate his hips so that he hits the ball to \nthe left side all the time, but he swings slowly.\n\nAs for me disagreeing with Peter Gammons... Whoa! That's never happened\nbefore! Next thing you know, I'll probably believe Dave Campbell is the\nbiggest imbecile even to come near a mic, and that Ray Knight has\nthe IQ of drained crankcase oil.\n\n\n", "\n\nYeah Valentine, how many rings does Clemens have? \n\nNothin' like good old fashioned Canadian logic...\n\nBTW: The only good thing I can say about the Jay's rotation this year\nis that it could have been worse. Stewart might have stayed healthy.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n-- ", "\n\nDon't let this confuse anybody. The Winnipeg Jets have never won the\nStanley Cup (or even come that close). These Stanley Cup championships\ngo back a LONG way to about the turn of the century. The Winnipeg\nVictorias won one or more of these Cups- the Jets didn't win any of\nthem.\n\nCan you think of anything more irrelevant to argue about a playoff\nseries going on today than who won more Stanley Cups around the turn\nof the century??\n\nLets face facts. The Canucks are leading the series 3-1. The Canucks\ndominated the Jets in their season series. The Canucks did better in\nthe regular season than Winnipeg. Who is the better team? I think\nthat the facts show that Vancouver is better than Winnipeg.", "In September 1990, our medical reserve unit was sent to the KETZIOT\nprison camp to take care of Arab prisoner who were housed in 5\nsections of 1500 prisoners each, with each section subdivided in\n5 units housing 300 prisoners. The prisoners would \"communicate\"\nwith other distant sections (sometimes 50-100 yards away) by\ntaking stones, tying written notes to the stones, and throwing\nthem with incredible precision to other sections. I should have\nbeen a recruiter for the Red Sox :-) There were at least three\nprisoners who could have been outstanding pitchers.", "\nI agree. I'll delete more as well.\n\n\n\n\nStill, if the 'whispers' reached San Francisco, it is certainly possible they\nwere stronger elsewhere. Also, it was teammates making the aspersions. In any\nevent, I know of no other player to be maligned in the last couple years.\n\n\n\nUh, the original author's point was that black and white players were por-\ntrayed differently by \"the media\", and towards this, he gave a highly selected\nlist to \"prove\" his case. Sanders' name showed up eventually. I dispute that\nSanders has ever been called lazy by \"the media\". \n\n\n\n\n\n\nUh, that poster specifically stated \"allow me to be the first\". It is NOT a\nquibble, then, to state that \"the media\" did not portray Canseco as being \nlazy. If the other person chooses to so accuse him, after my post, that does not\nmake it a quibble. And in fact, the media around here tend(ed) to play up his\ntime in the wieght room. Hardly \"lazy\", and hardly a \"quibble\". Have you ever\nseen any \"mediot\" portray Canseco as \"lazy\"? Unconcerned with his fielding, yes.\nLazy, no.\n\n\nWell, Canseco has been involved in several felonies, including his high-speed\nrecord, carrying concealed fire-arms, and of course the domestic violence. \nClemens had a run-in at a bar. Canseco had that, as well, and in both cases, the\ncoverage was relatively minimal.\n\n\nUh, if the only evidence offered is anecdotal, how can it be objected that the\ncounter to it is also anecdotal?\n\n\nUh, yes, and I agree with your assesment of Boggs, rather specifically. However,\nyou did say \"everybody who has ever won a batting title\" has been accused of\nselfishness. I have not ever, anywhere, heard this said of Puckett. Pendleton,\neither. Similarly, Brett, B Williams, and others. \n\n\nThere are others. Perhaps they are simply not as outspoken, except in the\ncase of the \"born-again\" types I mention.", "\nI have lived in the Boston area for 15 years now. They have been talking\nabout a new Boston Garden (hockey/basketball) since I've lived here. One\nday the \"last hurdle\" has been overcome, and the next day there's a new\nhurdle. Fans have been grumbling about Foxboro Stadium (or whatever it's\ncalled this year) for nearly as long, but there are only preliminary\nproposals for a new stadium. Local politics prevents anything from being\ndone in a timely fashion. There will not be a new ballpark in my\nlifetime.", "According to an article in the LA Times, Todd Worrell will not\nbe ready to come off the DL list Friday. It sounds like\nhe has had another set back in his come back. At present,\nhe has stopped throwing the ball. Supposedly, he had\nno velocity. It doesn't sound like there is any particular\ntime table at this point for when he will be back.", "The FLYERS team that can beat any team on any night showed up at the Spectrum\nSunday night, and dominated the Maple Leafs thoroughly en route to a 4-0\nshutout. Tommy Soderstrom will get credit for the shutout, but he barely broke\na sweat until the third period as the FLYERS defense kept the Leafs from\nmounting any serious attack.\n\nInjuries:\n\nPelle Eklund is day-to-day with a bruised thigh.\n\nRoster Moves:\n\nJason Bowen was added to the lineup for his first NHL game. Jason was the FLYERS\nsecond pick in the first round (15th overall) of the 1992 entry draft. 19 years\nold, 6'4\", 210 lbs. In 62 games with the tri-city Americans he had 10 goals,\n12 assists and 219 PIM. He plays left wing and defense, he played defense in\nthis game although Bobby Taylor said that Bill Dineen was planning to use him\nup front as well.\n\nAndre Faust was returned to Hershey. He actually left after the second period\nof the Kings game, flew to Albany, got the game tying goal in a Bears OT win,\nand played again for Hershey Sunday night.\n\nLines:\n\nFedyk-Lindros-Recchi\nBeranek-Brind'Amour-Dineen\nLomakin-Butsayev-Conroy\nActon-Brown\n\nGalley-McGill\nYushkevich-Cronin\nCarkner-Hawgood\nBowen\n\nTommy Soderstrom in goal.\n\nActon replaced Lomakin in the 3rd period.\n\nGame Summary:\n\nIf the FLYERS played like this every night, they'd be in the playoffs this\nyear. The FLYERS hit everything that moved. They created scoring chance after\nscoring chance. They snuffed out everything that the Leafs tried to do.\n\nJason Bowen made a good play on his first NHL shift that almost created a goal.\nHe had the puck in the top of the left offensive circle all alone, but instead\nof taking the shot he found Brind'Amour crashing the net on the other side.\nA perfect pass and a good shot across Daren Puppa's body should have been a\ngoal, but Puppa made a great save reading the play.\n\nGarry Galley gave the Maple Leafs 7th ranked power play the first chance when\nhe hooked Doug Gilmour at 4:25. The FLYERS lowly 21st ranked penalty killing\nunit was almost flawless the entire game, and set the tone on this kill. The\nMaple Leafs got almost nothing but long unscreened shots, and the defense swept\naway every rebound.\n\nAfter the power play, the FLYERS got a goal on an ugly play. Rod Brind'Amour\ngave the puck to Greg Hawgood at the right point, and he sent a drive at the\nnet. Puppa made the save and kicked the rebound right into the feet of Josef\nBeranek and Bob Rouse, who were wrestling in the slot. Beranek was able to\nget his stick on the puck and push it out to Dineen who was skating into\nthe slot from the right circle, and he lifted a backhander over Puppa for\na 1-0 FLYERS lead at 8:10.\n\nThe FLYERS kept the pressure on, and Puppa was the only Leaf keeping the FLYERS\nfrom building on their lead for a while. Eventually things settled down and\ndefense prevailed. Each team got an occasional scoring chance, but the goalies\nwere strong. Bowen started giving some Lindros-like checks in his own corners.\nThen Lindros, who was looking to avenge a hit Foligno gave him, thought he had\na chance to even the score. He had Foligno lined up at center ice, leaned into\nhim, and rode him into the center ice boards. The only problem was that Foligno\nwas a little far from the boards, and Mike \"Mister\" McGeough felt that it\nwarranted a boarding call at 15:38\n\nThe Leafs couldn't get anything going on the power play as the FLYERS were\nvery aggressive (for a change) on the kill.\n\nWith time running out in the period, Recchi carried through the neutral zone\nand handed to Lindros as they approached the Leaf's blue line. They were in\na crowd with Wendell Clark and Jamie Macoun, Lindros tried a backhand pass\nto Recchi through the feet of Macoun that connected to Recchi, but then Clark\nchecked Recchi off the puck. Macoun then tried to clear, but it was weak and\nwent right to McGill who had manned the point. He drove it from just inside\nthe blue line. Macoun got his stick on it and deflected it past his own\ngoalie at 19:55.1. Shots were 13-8 FLYERS in the period.\n\nThe FLYERS finally got their first chance on the power play when Dave Andreychuk\ntripped up Rod Brind'Amour in his offensive zone. During the power play, the\nFLYERS got cheated a little when the puck popped up into the air and Eric\ngloved it down, but McGeough thought it hit his stick above his head. We\ncould see from our seats at the other end of the ice that it only hit his glove\nand the replay confirmed, but the faceoff went to the other end. As time was\nrunning out in the advantage, Lindros found Galley with a pass across the goal\nmouth but Puppa made the save. The rebound kicked back to the right corner where\nRecchi picked it up, passed it out to Eric crashing through the right circle,\nand Eric one-timed past Puppa at 7:55. With the assist, Recchi moves past\nBobby Clarke's 74-75 season, the second best one season total for a FLYER at\n117. Eric moves up to 4th all time in FLYERS rookie scoring with 67 points.\n\nMike Eastwood took down Al Conroy at 8:30 to give the FLYERS another chance on\nthe power play. Not much pressure before Garry Galley ended the power play with\na slash at 9:19. Not much happened on the 4 on 4, although the Leafs had most\nof the possession. The FLYERS smothered the Leafs short power play. Tempers\nflared a little at 13:14. Bowen and Pearson got roughing minors, Keith Acton\ngot a bloody face. Dave McLlwain then took a dive and got Greg Hawgood a\nhooking minor at 13:46 to set up a 4 on 3. The replay showed that Hawgood's\nstick stopped making contact with McLlwain long before he spun around and fell.\nAgain the FLYERS smothered the Leafs power play, led by Dimitri Yushkevich.\nBowen made a thundering hit when he came out of the box on Pearson. Berehowski\ntried to perplex everybody with his sloooowball. He had the puck at the point,\nand just trickled a pass down the slot. He made all the FLYERS look silly as\nnobody could get a stick on it, and it got to Gilmour at the side of the net,\nbut Soderstrom stoned him.\n\nThe FLYERS picked things up offensively after the kill was over, but didn't\nget anything home. Shots were 13-10 FLYERS.\n\nThe FLYERS were content with the 3 goal lead in the third period, and they\ndecided that if Tommy wanted a shutout, he was going to have to work for it a\nlittle.\n\nThe FLYERS got most of the scoring chances in the first 7 or so minutes of the\nperiod, but couldn't get past Puppa. Then the Leafs got tired of Lindros making\nroad kill out of them, and tempers flared. 2 each for Doug Gilmour and Lindros \n(unsportsmanlike conduct) and 2 each for Glenn Anderson and McGill (roughing)\nall at 7:02. Terry Carkner then took a kneeing penalty at 7:51 on Gilmour.\n\nAgain the FLYERS smothered the Leafs power play.\n\nAt about the 12 minute mark, Dave Andreychuk got a shot away from his left\ncircle that got through Soderstrom. The puck was rolling on it's side, and\nas luck would have it it turned away from the net instead of turning towards\nit (think of how a rolling quarter inevitably starts to lean one way or the\nother). Seconds later Rod Brind'Amour tripped up Gilmour at 12:24 to give the\nLeafs another chance on the power play. On the advantage, after Soderstrom\nstoned Andreychuk while lying down, Andreychuk got the rebound through\nSoderstrom, but from behind the net and it went straight through and was swept\naway by one of his defensemen. They kept the pressure on, but Soderstrom was\nequal and preserved the shutout.\n\nRecchi cross checked Ken Baumgartner to get tempers hot and start a brawl\nat 16:01. No punches thrown, Recchi got the initial minor, Krushelnyski\nBaumgartner and Lindros each got roughing minors. At 17:02 Rouse and Beranek\nexpressed their mutual dislike for each other and got 2 each for slashing to\nset up another 4 on 4. Mike Eastwood shoved down Ryan McGill in the FLYERS\nzone as they were battling for the puck, and while McGill was down he ran\nhis stick across McGill's face. The FLYERS were not happy with that at all.\n5-8 Al Conroy paired up with 6-1 Berehowski, and started throwing punches.\nUpward. Well, Al held his own, much to the delight of the crowd. Each got\na couple punches in before going down in a head, and Al got a standing O!\nPenalties: Eastwood 5 (cross check) + game, Clark, Carkner 10 each. Berehowski\nand Conroy 5 each (fighting) at 17:49.\n\nSo a major penalty for the rest of the game for the FLYERS. The had no interest\nin stting on the lead. Hawgood, Galley and Brind'Amour played catch until\nHawgood found Dineen all alone in the left circle, he controlled the puck and\nblasted it past Puppa at 18:39.\n\nThat was all the fireworks, Tommy Soderstrom would not face another shot. Puppa\ndid, but kept the FLYERS off the board. 4-0 FLYERS, shots were 9-8 FLYERS in the\n3rd. Probably the strongest game I've seen from the FLYERS since the All Star\nbreak. Shutout number 4 for Soderstrom, all since 1/10. Tied for 2nd most in\nthe NHL, but he's played fewer games than Belfour (6) or the goalie I can't\nremember that he's tied with.\n\nNext up it's the Winnipeg Selannes Tuesday night in Winnipeg. The FLYERS cannot\nbe eliminated if they win, but a loss coupled with an Islander win that night\nin Washington would be the official end.\n\nFLYERS up to 71 points on the season in 78 games. Last year they had 75 points\nin 80 games (5 under .500), so they need at least 8 points in their last 6\ngames to improve on that only by percentage points (5 under in 84 is better\nthan 5 under in 80).\n\nTragic number holds at 3 points with 6 games left. The tragic number for 5th\nis 5 points, I watched the Rangers blow a 4-2 third period lead at home to\nlose 5-4 before I finished this up. Why 5 points instead of 4? Well, the FLYERS\nwill win the tie-breaker if they catch them, whereas the Islanders win tie\nbreakers against the FLYERS and so need only a tie. The Rangers could crumble\ndown the stretch as they play the Devils, the Pens twice, the FLYERS, and\nfinish up with 2 games against the Caps. So I guess 5th place could be the\ngoal for the team to focus on.\n\nFLYERS team record watch:\n\nEric Lindros:\n\n38 goals, 29 assists, 67 points\n\n(rookie records)\nclub record goals:\t\t\tclub record points:\nEric Lindros\t38 1992-93\t\tDave Poulin\t76 1983-84\nBrian Propp\t34 1979-80\t\tBrian Propp\t75 1979-80\nRon Flockhart\t33 1981-82\t\tRon Flockhart\t72 1981-82\nDave Poulin\t31 1983-84\t\tEric Lindros\t67 1992-93\nBill Barber\t30 1972-73\t\tPelle Eklund\t66 1985-86\n\nMark Recchi:\n\n51 goals, 66 assists, 117 points.\n\nclub record goals:\t\t\tclub record points:\nReggie Leach\t61 1975-76\t\tBobby Clarke\t119 1975-76\nTim Kerr\t58 1985-86,86-87\tMark Recchi\t117 1992-93\nTim Kerr\t54 1983-84,84-85\tBobby Clarke\t116 1974-75\nMark Recchi\t51 1992-93\t\tBill Barber\t112 1975-76\nRick Macliesh\t50 1972-73\t\tBobby Clarke\t104 1972-73\nBill Barber\t50 1975-76\t\tRick Macliesh\t100 1972-73\nReggie Leach\t50 1979-80\n\nFLYERS career years:\n\nPlayer\t\tPoints\tBest Prior Season\nMark Recchi\t117\t113 (90-91 Penguins)\nRod Brind'Amour\t79\t77 (91-92 FLYERS)\nGarry Galley\t58\t38 (84-85 Kings)\nBrent Fedyk\t58\t35 (90-91 Red Wings)\n\nThat's all for now...", "Detroit's going to beat Toronto in 6 or LESS!!!\n\n Granted, Gilmour should get the Hart Trophy, NOT Lemieux... Just\nLook at what Gilmour did for Toronto. When you think of Toronto,\nwho comes to mind, Gilmour, Andreychuk, Potvin...ah...did I mentio\nn Gilmour?\n\nBack to Detroit... There really isn't a team that could stand up\nto them if all the players on the team play to their potential,\nno one could stop them. Yzerman, Fedorov, Coffey, Lindstrom...\nthere's more firepower there than Pittsburgh... and they don't tri\np over their own skates!\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\n /------------/ Detroit over Toronto in 5 Patrick Walker\n / /--\\------/ Detroit over Chicago in 6 University of New Bruns.\n ! ! !---/ Detroit over Vancouver in 6 Canada\n \\ \\__/ / Detroit over Nords in 6 \"Disco Still Sucks!\"", "\nIt was Clint Malarchuk's neck cut by Uwe Krupp's skate. I know it happened in\nBuffalo, but I can't tell you against whom.\n\nKrupp was defending an opposing attacker charging the net.\n\nMalarchuk became the fourth goalie (behind Hasek, Puppa and Draper) after\nsuffering from Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. He's been playing in San Diego\nfor former Sabre coach Rick Dudley.\n\nKrupp is now playing for the Islanders after the LaFontaine/Turgeon trade.\n\nWhat do I win? =)\n", "\n\nGaetz won't be back. There's been rumors he was officially released right at\nthe end of the season when his contract expired, but I haven't seen\nconfirmation. It was clear from my talks with the Sharks doctors that he\nwasn't going to make it for a while, and the Sharks would have to sign him\nto a contract, which given his problems competing at the IHL level this\nspring, doesn't make sense. \n", "\n\n\n\n\n\nIf I remember correctly (Which is always in doubt), Horner's signing\nwith the Braves was contingent on starting in Atlanta. I think\nhe could have gone back to Arizona St. for one more year if he hadn't\nsigned. Anyhow, the Braves did try to send him to Richmond once;\nit lead to a week-long walkout. Methinks Horner had no work ethic\nbefore he was drafted, and minor league play wouldn't have helped.\nBut his raw talent would have gotten him into the ML, and it did\nkeep him there for a while, until he started falling on his wrists.\n\n", "Tampa Bay 1 1 0--2\nPhiladelphia 3 2 1--6\nFirst period\n 1, Philadelphia, Carkner 3 (unassisted) 1:24.\n 2, Philadelphia, Hawgood 9 (Recchi, Lindros) pp, 5:56.\n 3, Philadelphia, Lindros 37 (Recchi, Hawgood) pp, 9:52.\n 4, Tampa Bay, Beers 12 (Zamuner, Chambers) pp, 15:06.\nSecond period\n 5, Tampa Bay, Andersson 13 (Hamrlik, Lafreniere) pp, 1:58.\n 6, Philadelphia, Conroy 3 (Butsayev, Faust) 12:10.\n 7, Philadelphia, Beranek 13 (Galley, Hawgood) pp, 18:53.\nThird period\n 8, Philadelphia, Recchi 51 (Brind'Amour, Galley) pp, 17:56.\n\nPhiladelphia: 6 Power play: 5-4\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nBeranek 1 0 1\nBrind'Amour 0 1 1\nButsayev 0 1 1\nCarkner 1 0 1\nConroy 1 0 1\nFaust 0 1 1\nGalley 0 2 2\nHawgood 1 2 3\nLindros 1 1 2\nRecchi 1 2 3\n\nTampa Bay: 2 Power play: 7-2\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nAndersson 1 0 1\nBeers 1 0 1\nChambers 0 1 1\nHamrlik 0 1 1\nLafreniere 0 1 1\nZamuner 0 1 1\n\n-----------------------------------------\nVancouver 1 0 0--1\nDetroit 2 2 1--5\nFirst period\n 1, Detroit, Kozlov 4 (Fedorov, Chiasson) 5:20.\n 2, Detroit, Drake 17 (Ciccarelli, Coffey) pp, 7:48.\n 3, Vancouver, Ronning 24 (Slegr, Bure) pp, 17:35.\nSecond period\n 4, Detroit, Sheppard 30 (Drake, Hiller) 6:54.\n 5, Detroit, Ciccarelli 38 (Chiasson, Drake) pp, 12:13.\nThird period\n 6, Detroit, Ysebaert 31 (Fedorov, Cheveldae) sh, 4:59.\n\nDetroit: 5 Power play: 5-2 Special goals: pp: 2 sh: 1 Total: 3\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nCheveldae 0 1 1\nChiasson 0 2 2\nCiccarelli 1 1 2\nCoffey 0 1 1\nDrake 1 2 3\nFedorov 0 2 2\nHiller 0 1 1\nKozlov 1 0 1\nSheppard 1 0 1\nYsebaert 1 0 1\n\nVancouver: 1 Power play: 6-1\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nBure 0 1 1\nRonning 1 0 1\nSlegr 0 1 1\n\n-----------------------------------------\nBuffalo 1 1 0--2\nBoston 1 1 1--3\nFirst period\n 1, Buffalo, Audette 12 (Corkum, Wood) 16:40.\n 2, Boston, Juneau 30 (Neely, Oates) 18:39.\nSecond period\n 3, Buffalo, Errey 9 (LaFontaine, Khmylev) 10:51.\n 4, Boston, Douris 3 (D.Sweeney, Bourque) 17:57.\nThird period\n 5, Boston, Donato 12 (unassisted) 17:42.\n\nBoston: 3 Power play: 4-0\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nBourque 0 1 1\nDonato 1 0 1\nDouris 1 0 1\nJuneau 1 0 1\nNeely 0 1 1\nOates 0 1 1\nSweeney D 0 1 1\n\nBuffalo: 2 Power play: 5-0\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nAudette 1 0 1\nCorkum 0 1 1\nErrey 1 0 1\nKhmylev 0 1 1\nLaFontaine 0 1 1\nWood 0 1 1\n\n-----------------------------------------\nCalgary 1 1 0 1--3\nSan Jose 0 2 0 0--2\nFirst period\n 1, Calgary, Suter 21 (Reichel, MacInnis) pp, 17:47.\nSecond period\n 2, San Jose, Zmolek 5 (Odgers, Evason) 3:03.\n 3, San Jose, Kisio 24 (Garpenlov, Gaudreau) pp, 7:23.\n 4, Calgary, Lindberg 9 (MacInnis) pp, 12:43.\nThird period\n No scoring.\nOvertime\n 5, Calgary, Fleury 31 (Otto, Yawney) 3:06.\n\nCalgary: 3 Power play: 8-2\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nFleury 1 0 1\nLindberg 1 0 1\nMacInnis 0 2 2\nOtto 0 1 1\nReichel 0 1 1\nSuter 1 0 1\nYawney 0 1 1\n\nSan Jose: 2 Power play: 9-1\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nEvason 0 1 1\nGarpenlov 0 1 1\nGaudreau 0 1 1\nKisio 1 0 1\nOdgers 0 1 1\nZmolek 1 0 1\n\n-----------------------------------------\nPittsburgh 0 3 2--5\nQuebec 2 1 0--3\nFirst period\n 1, Quebec, Kamensky 15 (Huffman) 6:05.\n 2, Quebec, Young 27 (Lapointe, Huffman) 16:52.\nSecond period\n 3, Pittsburgh, Mullen 29 (Lemieux, Murphy) 3:54.\n 4, Pittsburgh, Lemieux 60 (Tocchet, U.Samuelsson) 5:07.\n 5, Pittsburgh, Lemieux 61 (Tocchet, Stevens) 8:12.\n 6, Quebec, Young 28 (Sundin, Kovalenko) pp, 14:52.\nThird period\n 7, Pittsburgh, Tippett 4 (unassisted) sh, 3:52.\n 8, Pittsburgh, Tippett 5 (McEachern, Mullen) 8:25.\n\nPittsburgh: 5 Power play: 1-0 Special goals: sh: 1 Total: 1\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nLemieux 2 1 3\nMcEachern 0 1 1\nMullen 1 1 2\nMurphy 0 1 1\nSamuelsson U 0 1 1\nStevens 0 1 1\nTippett 2 0 2\nTocchet 0 2 2\n\nQuebec: 3 Power play: 4-1\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nHuffman 0 2 2\nKamensky 1 0 1\nKovalenko 0 1 1\nLapointe 0 1 1\nSundin 0 1 1\nYoung 2 0 2\n\n-----------------------------------------\nNew Jersey 0 0 0--0\nToronto 0 0 1--1\nFirst period\n No scoring.\nSecond period\n No scoring.\nThird period\n 1, Toronto, Gilmour 32 (Andreychuk, Anderson) 16:22.\n\nToronto: 1 Power play: 5-0\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nAnderson 0 1 1\nAndreychuk 0 1 1\nGilmour 1 0 1\n\nNew Jersey: 0 Power play: 3-0\nNo scoring\n\n-----------------------------------------\nOttawa 1 0 2--3\nHartford 5 1 1--7\nFirst period\n 1, Ottawa, Maciver 17 (Baker, Luongo) 4:22.\n 2, Hartford, Kron 11 (Nylander, Gosselin) 5:13.\n 3, Hartford, Burt 4 (Cassels, Verbeek) 7:59.\n 4, Hartford, Cunneyworth 4 (Yake, Nylander) 9:59.\n 5, Hartford, Sanderson 42 (Cassels, Houda) 11:11.\n 6, Hartford, Verbeek 35 (Cassels, Zalapski) pp, 15:50.\nSecond period\n 7, Hartford, Sanderson 43 (Cassels, Zalapski) pp, 18:38.\nThird period\n 8, Hartford, Kron 12 (Poulin, Burt) 4:57.\n 9, Ottawa, Turgeon 23 (Lamb) 8:57.\n 10, Ottawa, Baker 17 (Luongo, Maciver) pp, 16:17.\n\nHartford: 7 Power play: 3-2\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nBurt 1 1 2\nCassels 0 4 4\nCunneyworth 1 0 1\nGosselin 0 1 1\nHouda 0 1 1\nKron 2 0 2\nNylander 0 2 2\nPoulin 0 1 1\nSanderson 2 0 2\nVerbeek 1 1 2\nYake 0 1 1\nZalapski 0 2 2\n\nOttawa: 3 Power play: 7-1\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nBaker 1 1 2\nLamb 0 1 1\nLuongo 0 2 2\nMaciver 1 1 2\nTurgeon 1 0 1\n\n-----------------------------------------\nWinnipeg 1 3 2--6\nEdmonton 1 0 3--4\nFirst period\n 1, Winnipeg, Tkachuk 27 (Housley, Zhamnov) pp, 14:38.\n 2, Edmonton, Klima 31 (Ciger, Elik) 16:05.\nSecond period\n 3, Winnipeg, King 8 (unassisted) 3:54.\n 4, Winnipeg, Zhamnov 21 (Selanne) 10:25.\n 5, Winnipeg, Domi 5 (Selanne, Housley) 18:44.\nThird period\n 6, Edmonton, Manson 15 (unassisted) 10:58.\n 7, Winnipeg, Eagles 8 (Numminen, Bautin) pp, 14:13.\n 8, Winnipeg, Zhamnov 22 (Ulanov, Selanne) 15:27.\n 9, Edmonton, Gelinas 8 (Kravchuk, Ranford) 16:48.\n 10, Edmonton, Kravchuk 10 (Buchberger) 18:42.\n\nWinnipeg: 6 Power play: 5-2\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nBautin 0 1 1\nDomi 1 0 1\nEagles 1 0 1\nHousley 0 2 2\nKing 1 0 1\nNumminen 0 1 1\nSelanne 0 3 3\nTkachuk 1 0 1\nUlanov 0 1 1\nZhamnov 2 1 3\n\nEdmonton: 4 Power play: 3-0\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nBuchberger 0 1 1\nCiger 0 1 1\nElik 0 1 1\nGelinas 1 0 1\nKlima 1 0 1\nKravchuk 1 1 2\nManson 1 0 1\nRanford 0 1 1\n\n-----------------------------------------\nChicago 0 3 0 0--3\nSt. Louis 1 2 0 0--3\nFirst period\n 1, St. Louis, Shanahan 46 (Janney, Hull) pp, 4:09.\nSecond period\n 2, Chicago, Murphy 4 (Chelios, Roenick) pp, 0:50.\n 3, St. Louis, Shanahan 47 (Hedican, Janney) 1:18.\n 4, Chicago, Noonan 16 (Murphy, Chelios) pp, 5:24.\n 5, St. Louis, Bozon 6, ps, 12:13.\n 6, Chicago, Roenick 43 (Sutter, Murphy) pp, 18:39.\nThird period\n No scoring.\nOvertime\n No scoring.\n\nSt. Louis: 3 Power play: 4-1 Special goals: pp: 1 ps: 1 Total: 2\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nBozon 1 0 1\nChelios 0 1 1\nHedican 0 1 1\nHull 0 1 1\nJanney 0 2 2\nMurphy 0 1 1\nShanahan 2 0 2\n\nChicago: 3 Power play: 3-3\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nChelios 0 2 2\nMurphy 1 2 3\nNoonan 1 0 1\nRoenick 1 1 2\nSutter 0 1 1\n\n-----------------------------------------\nMontreal 0 1 2--3\nNY Islanders 0 2 0--2\nFirst period\n No scoring.\nSecond period\n 1, Montreal, Brunet 10 (Carbonneau, Daigneault) 4:39.\n 2, NY Islanders, Turgeon 51 (Thomas, Kurvers) pp, 9:14.\n 3, NY Islanders, Mullen 16 (unassisted) 15:13.\nThird period\n 4, Montreal, Bellows 38 (Desjardins, Dipietro) 3:01.\n 5, Montreal, Damphousse 38 (Desjardins, Bellows) pp, 10:11.\n\nMontreal: 3 Power play: 5-1\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nBellows 1 1 2\nBrunet 1 0 1\nCarbonneau 0 1 1\nDaigneault 0 1 1\nDamphousse 1 0 1\nDesjardins 0 2 2\nDipietro 0 1 1\n\nNY Islanders: 2 Power play: 5-1\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nKurvers 0 1 1\nMullen 1 0 1\nThomas 0 1 1\nTurgeon 1 0 1\n\n-----------------------------------------\nMinnesota 2 1 0--3\nLos Angeles 0 0 0--0\nFirst period\n 1, Minnesota, Dahlen 33 (unassisted) 2:34.\n 2, Minnesota, Courtnall 33 (Dahlen, Modano) pp, 9:30.\nSecond period\n 3, Minnesota, McPhee 14 (Sjodin, Hatcher) pp, 7:24.\nThird period\n No scoring.\n\nMinnesota: 3 Power play: 11-2\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nCourtnall 1 0 1\nDahlen 1 1 2\nHatcher 0 1 1\nMcPhee 1 0 1\nModano 0 1 1\nSjodin 0 1 1", "I'm a hockey fan from way back, and maintain an interest as best I can\nhere in the hockey hinterlands (Oklahoma). I'm hoping I can get a\nreading from some of you about the move of the North Stars to Dallas.\n\nI've been under the impression that Minnesota was one of, or possibly,\nTHE hockey state in the U.S. So why is the team moving to a city in\nTexas? Is it that the owner is a greedy, self-serving profiteer, or\nwere the Stars really not making a profit? Or was the city or whoever\nowned the arena doing some price gouging?\n\nAs much as I'd like to see the NHL only a 3 hour drive from me, I\ncan't help but feel for the people in Minnesota, unless they truly\ndidn't support the team. \n\nOpinions, please.", "Boston 2 2 0--4\nOttawa 0 1 1--2\nFirst period\n 1, Boston, Roberts 5 (Juneau) 7:19.\n 2, Boston, Wiemer 1(Juneau, Oates) 17:47.\nSecond period\n 3, Boston, Neely 11 (Juneau, Murphy) 6:10.\n 4, Boston, Hughes 5 (Richer, Kimble) 7:55.\n 5, Ottawa, Archibald 9 (Rumble, Lamb) 11:37.\nThird period\n 6, Ottawa, Boschman 9 (Kudelski) 5:10.\n\nBoston: 4 Power play: 2-0\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nHughes 1 0 1\nJuneau 0 3 3\nKimble 0 1 1\nMurphy 0 1 1\nNeely 1 0 1\nOates 0 1 1\nRicher 0 1 1\nRoberts 1 0 1\nWiemer 1 0 1\n\nOttawa: 2 Power play: 4-0\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nArchibald 1 0 1\nBoschman 1 0 1\nKudelski 0 1 1\nLamb 0 1 1\nRumble 0 1 1\n\n-----------------------------------------\nWashington 0 0 2--2\nNY Rangers 0 0 0--0\nFirst period\n No scoring.\nSecond period\n No scoring.\nThird period\n 1, Washington, Bondra 36 (Pivonka, Cavallini) 6:54.\n 2, Washington, Bondra 37 (Cote, Pivonka) 10:10.\n\nWashington: 2 Power play: 2-0\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nBondra 2 0 2\nCavallini 0 1 1\nCote 0 1 1\nPivonka 0 2 2\n\nNY Rangers: 0 Power play: 1-0\nNo scoring\n\n-----------------------------------------\nNY Islanders 2 1 1 0--4\nHartford 2 1 1 1--5\nFirst period\n 1, NY Islanders, Ferraro 13 (Malakhov, King) 1:29.\n 2, NY Islanders, Hogue 32 (Thomas, Turgeon) 1:57.\n 3, Hartford, Yake 21(Poulin) 4:15.\n 4, Hartford, Yake 22 (Nylander, Poulin) 16:44.\nSecond period\n 5, Hartford, Verbeek 39 (Cassels, Weinrich) pp, 2:43.\n 6, NY Islanders, Thomas 35 (King, Ferraro) 7:58.\nThird period\n 7, Hartford, Burt 5 (Sanderson, Cassels) 13:41.\n 8, NY Islanders, Malakhov 14 (Hogue) 17:45.\nOvertime\n 9, Hartford, Janssens 12 (Poulin) 1:08.\n\nHartford: 5 Power play: 3-1\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nBurt 1 0 1\nCassels 0 2 2\nJanssens 1 0 1\nNylander 0 1 1\nPoulin 0 3 3\nSanderson 0 1 1\nVerbeek 1 0 1\nWeinrich 0 1 1\nYake 2 0 2\n\nNY Islanders: 4 Power play: 3-0\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nFerraro 1 1 2\nHogue 1 1 2\nKing 0 2 2\nMalakhov 1 1 2\nThomas 1 1 2\nTurgeon 0 1 1\n\n-----------------------------------------\nPittsburgh 2 3 1 0--6\nNew Jersey 2 4 0 0--6\nFirst period\n 1, Pittsburgh, Daniels 5 (Needham, Tippett) 4:14.\n 2, New Jersey, Lemieux 29 (Semak, Driver) 10:19.\n 3, Pittsburgh, Stevens 55(Tocchet, Murphy) pp, 12:40.\n 4, New Jersey, Zelepukin 22 (Driver, Niedermayer) 17:26.\nSecond period\n 5, Pittsburgh, Lemieux 68 (Stevens, Tocchet) 1:42.\n 6, New Jersey, Semak 36 (Lemieux, Zelepukin) 2:27.\n 7, Pittsburgh, McEachern 28 (Jagr, Barrasso) 4:24.\n 8, New Jersey, Stevens 12 (Guerin, Pellerin) 5:45.\n 9, Pittsburgh, Lemieux 69 (unassisted) sh, 12:40.\n 10, New Jersey, Richer 37 (Nicholls) 15:53.\n 11, New Jersey, Lemieux 30 (Semak, Zelepukin) 17:40.\nThird period\n 12, Pittsburgh, Mullen 33 (Jagr, Lemieux) 18:54.\nOvertime\n No scoring.\n\nPittsburgh: 6 Power play: 5-1 Special goals: pp: 1 sh: 1 Total: 2\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nBarrasso 0 1 1\nDaniels 1 0 1\nJagr 0 2 2\nLemieux 2 1 3\nMcEachern 1 0 1\nMullen 1 0 1\nMurphy 0 1 1\nNeedham 0 1 1\nStevens 1 1 2\nTippett 0 1 1\nTocchet 0 2 2\n\nNew Jersey: 6 Power play: 3-0\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nDriver 0 2 2\nGuerin 0 1 1\nLemieux 2 1 3\nNicholls 0 1 1\nNiedermayer 0 1 1\nPellerin 0 1 1\nRicher 1 0 1\nSemak 1 2 3\nStevens 1 0 1\nZelepukin 1 2 3\n", "Pitchers are required to pitch (or feint or attempt a pick-off)\nwithin 20 seconds after receiving the ball, not 15.\n\nPitchers are required to pitch their warm-up throws within a\none minute time frame, beginning after each half inning ends,\nnot two minutes.\n\nAnd the reason why a reliever should be allowed warm-ups is\nsimple: Different mound, different catcher.\n\nRyan Robbins\nPenobscot Hall\nUniversity of Maine", "\n\nActually, Keith Hernandez is the best.\n\n -Sean\n\n", "The tv coverage of the playoffs is fucking ridicules. Overtime time games\n that are not shown? What the hell kind of shit is this? If that would\n have happened to the Flyers(if they were in the damn playoffs to begin\n with) while I was watching, I would have gone throught the roof!\n\n However, everybody is getting pissed off at ESPN, but they are not the\n ones to blame. They have prior contracts that they just can't simply break\n whenever they want to. The N.H.L. is to blame. When they signed the\n deal with ESPN, they had to know of this. They had to know shit like this\n would happen since they wouldn't have complete priority. The N.H.L.\n should be feeling the heat that is being thrown at ESPN. How can the\n N.H.L. do this to its fans? How dare they. We are the ones that make the\n damn league exist and they can't even televise complete playoff games for us to\n watch! They more I write about this, the more pissed off I get. We must\n let the N.H.L. know that we expect a little better than this. If anybody\n out there knows how to go about doing this, let me and everybody else know.\n\n Well I had to get that off my chest and while I'm at it....\n\n Mario is the Michael Jordan of hockey. All that fucker has to do is fall\n on the ice and the closet guy to him gets at least 2. Last night in the\n 3rd game between NJ and Pitt, he was being pushed while skating across the\n front of the goal while trying to get a shot off. The guy on him was\n doing a good job, so he got off a weak shot, but then he decided to fall\n to the ice. Then the fucking ref(Van Helloamend?) called the guy for\n holding. They replayed the play, and my roomate(who is clueless about\n hockey) wanted to know what the NJ guy did to get a call, because it was so fucking obvious the NJ player\n had both hands on his stick, and no, he did not trip him. It is simple,\n Mario gets touched, he falls to the ice, automatic 2. But the thing that\n really pissed me off is, Pitt scored the 3rd or 4th goal, I don't remember,\n on the resulting PP and\n eventually won 4-3. His diving/calls makes a HUGE difference in the\n outcome of a game.\n\n They gotta stop the damn holding and interference that is so fucking\n obvious. That is not hockey. It allows inferior players to bring down the\nlevel of the better players, and allows inferior teams to beat better ones.\nThis has pissed me off for many years now, and it has improved somewhat.\nHowever, during the playoffs and 3rd periods, the damn refs must misplace\ntheir balls, because they sure don't make any calls that show that they got\nany.\n\n All agreeing or disagreeing replies are welcomed.", "\n\n\nI happen to be a big fan of Jayson Stark. He is a baseball writer for the \nPhiladelphia Inquirer. Every tuesday he writes a \"Week in Review\" column. \nHe writes about unusual situations that occured during the week. Unusual\nstats. He has a section called \"Kinerisms of the Week\" which are stupid\nlines by Mets brodcaster Ralph Kiner. Every year he has the LGTGAH contest.\nThat stands for \"Last guy to get a hit.\" He also writes for Baseball \nAmerica. That column is sort of a highlights of \"Week in Review.\" If you \ncan, check his column out sometime. He might make you laugh.\n\nRob Koffler\n", "HI,\n\nI was just wondering if anyone knew when Erickson\nand Keith Miller are expected to come back and what\nexactly ails them.\n\n-- \n\nSincerely,", "Here are the standings after game 2 of each of the divisional semi-final\nseries.\n\n\t- Andrew\n\nUSENET Hockey Playoff Draft Standings\n\nPosn\tTeam\t\t\t\tPts\tRem\tLast Posn\n\n1.\tSneddon Scorers 77\t25\t(1)\n2.\tArctic Circles 75\t25\t(75)\n\tNorthern Lights 75\t25\t(33)\n\tThreepeat 75\t25\t(19)\n5.\tfighting amish 74\t25\t(161)\n\tTeam Elvis 74\t25\t(11)\n7.\tchris roney 73\t25\t(33)\n\tMyers Marauders 73\t25\t(--)\n\tthe dead ducks 73\t25\t(11)\n10.\tLes Poteux 72\t25\t(--)\n\tSludge 72\t25\t(75)\n\tPaige Faults 72\t25\t(33)\n\tSam & His Dogs 72\t25\t(33)\n\tThe Borg 72\t25\t(2)\n\tHurricane Andrew 72\t25\t(4)\n\tLewey's Lakers 72\t25\t(102)\n\tEinstien's Punk Band 72\t25\t(9)\n18.\tHomesick Hawaiian 71\t25\t(4)\n\tTest Department 71\t25\t(11)\n\tSamuel Lau (Calgary, Alberta) 71\t25\t(127)\n\tMopar Muscle Men 71\t25\t(33)\n\tJerky Boys 71\t24\t(4)\n\tGB Flyers 71\t25\t(19)\n24.\tNeural Netters 70\t25\t(102)\n\tgive you money monday 70\t25\t(9)\n\tBill McGreer 70\t25\t(--)\n\tFugazi 70\t25\t(33)\n\tDetroit Homeboy 70\t25\t(11)\n\tBloom County All-Stars 70\t25\t(54)\n\tDehraDun Maawalis 70\t25\t(75)\n31.\tGreat Expectations 69\t25\t(4)\n\tPURDUE RICKS PENS 69\t25\t(19)\n33.\tfrank's little wankers 68\t25\t(33)\n\tJan Stein 68\t25\t(33)\n\tAllez les Blues 68\t25\t(--)\n\tGoaldingers 68\t25\t(75)\n\tsuds 68\t25\t(19)\n\tweenies 68\t25\t(33)\n\tA.P. BURY 68\t25\t(19)\n\tBruce's Rented Mules 68\t25\t(4)\n41.\tMind Sweepers 67\t25\t(33)\n\tMike Burger 67\t25\t(11)\n\tGo Flames 67\t25\t(--)\n\tgarryola 67\t25\t(33)\n\tThe Mulberry Maulers 67\t25\t(75)\n\tLIPPE 67\t25\t(102)\n\tFlamming Senators 67\t25\t(19)\n\tBig Bay Bombers 67\t25\t(102)\n\tMilton Keynes Kings 67\t25\t(33)\n50.\tSeppo Kemppainen 66\t25\t(19)\n\tFreddy Beach Rockets 66\t25\t(--)\n\tThe Campi Machine 66\t25\t(19)\n\tj's rock'em sock'ems 66\t25\t(75)\n\tSean Forbes 66\t25\t(19)\n\tTapio Repo 66\t25\t(11)\n\tzachmans wingers 66\t25\t(19)\n\tZipper Heads 66\t25\t(11)\n\tCanadian Gladiators 66\t25\t(75)\n59.\tTeem Kanada 65\t25\t(33)\n\tNew Zealand Leafs 65\t25\t(54)\n\tTiger Chung Lees 65\t25\t(54)\n\tRangers Of Destiny 65\t25\t(33)\n\tmake beliefs 65\t25\t(54)\n\tDave Wessels 65\t25\t(2)\n\tNorway Killerwhales 65\t25\t(54)\n66.\tForce 25 64\t25\t(75)\n\ttrevor's triumph 64\t25\t(75)\n\tCommitments 64\t25\t(141)\n\tSkate or Die 64\t25\t(19)\n\tDog's Hog's 64\t25\t(33)\n\tDelaware Destroyers 64\t25\t(33)\n\tCraig team 64\t25\t(11)\n\tRangers Blow 64\t25\t(54)\n\tDebbie Bowles 64\t25\t(19)\n\tMak Paranjape 64\t25\t(141)\n\tComfortably Numb 64\t25\t(127)\n\tLoaded Weapons 64\t25\t(54)\n\tRob Del Mundo 64\t25\t(54)\n\tRobarts Research Rebels 64\t25\t(54)\n\tFuzzfaces Galore 64\t25\t(19)\n\tHoudini's Magicians 64\t25\t(54)\n\tLa Coupe Stainless 64\t25\t(141)\n83.\tCluster Buster 63\t25\t(33)\n\tLets Go Pandas 63\t25\t(102)\n\tTequila Shooters 63\t25\t(141)\n\tSteves Superstars 63\t25\t(102)\n\tReksa fans of Oulu 63\t25\t(127)\n\tHabs Playing Golf 63\t25\t(75)\n\tChris Stevens 63\t25\t(--)\n\tOn Thin Ice 63\t25\t(102)\n\tOakville Brothers 63\t25\t(33)\n\tJason team 63\t25\t(102)\n\tsmithw 63\t25\t(102)\n94.\tAnson Mak 62\t25\t(173)\n\tSkriko Wolves 62\t25\t(102)\n\tall the kane's men 62\t25\t(75)\n\tDanielle Leblanc 62\t25\t(127)\n\tTeam Awesome 62\t25\t(19)\n\tweasels 62\t25\t(141)\n\tAlf's All-Stars 62\t25\t(75)\n\tZippety Doodah 62\t25\t(75)\n\tKramer George and Jerry 62\t25\t(75)\n\tRev's Rebels 62\t25\t(75)\n\tYan Loke 62\t25\t(75)\n\tLamp Lighters 62\t25\t(102)\n\tlittlest giants 62\t25\t(75)\n\tMr Creosote 62\t25\t(75)\n108.\toceanweavers 61\t25\t(161)\n\tGreat Scott 61\t25\t(141)\n\tBobby Schmautz Fan Club 61\t25\t(127)\n\tIceMachine 61\t25\t(102)\n\tHat Trick Mike 61\t25\t(--)\n\tThe promise land 61\t25\t(33)\n\tDaves knee jerk picks 61\t25\t(102)\n\tDoug Bowles 61\t25\t(102)\n\tHolsteins SFB 61\t25\t(54)\n\tLemon Pepper Grizzly Bears 61\t25\t(54)\n\tFlying pigs 61\t25\t(127)\n\tLes Raisins 61\t25\t(102)\n\tRENEB 61\t25\t(102)\n\tGilles Carmel 61\t25\t(102)\n122.\tBoops Bets 60\t25\t(127)\n\tTimo Ojala 60\t25\t(127)\n\tRednecks from Hockey Hell 60\t25\t(33)\n\tgee man 60\t25\t(127)\n\tFRACK ATTACK 60\t25\t(54)\n\ttriple X 60\t25\t(127)\n\tUlfie's 16 brothers 60\t25\t(--)\n\tbuffalo soldiers 60\t25\t(54)\n\tShigella 60\t25\t(102)\n\tOttawa Bearcats 60\t25\t(127)\n\tWhiters 60\t25\t(141)\n\tMonica Loke 60\t25\t(102)\n\tLance Hill The Boston Bruins Fa 60\t25\t(33)\n135.\tMann Mariners 59\t24\t(141)\n\tNew Jersey Rob 59\t25\t(102)\n\tFrasses Faceplants 59\t25\t(141)\n\tDoug Mraz 59\t25\t(102)\n\tMuller n Walker 59\t25\t(54)\n\tHigh Stickers 59\t25\t(141)\n\tLegzryx 59\t25\t(161)\n\tBeer Makes Me An Expert 59\t25\t(75)\n\tGail Hiebert 59\t25\t(127)\n\tDean Martin 59\t25\t(161)\n145.\tmarcs maulers 58\t25\t(127)\n\tbrians bloodletters 58\t25\t(75)\n\tVan Isle Colonists 58\t25\t(141)\n\tCharlie Cook 58\t25\t(--)\n\tBjorkloven 58\t25\t(54)\n\tSchott Shooters 58\t25\t(102)\n\tBjoern Leaguen 58\t25\t(75)\n\tThe Eradicators 58\t25\t(141)\n\tLord Stanley's Favourites 58\t25\t(141)\n\tBut Wait Theres more 58\t25\t(127)\n\tStacey Ross 58\t25\t(141)\n156.\tHeikki Salmi 57\t25\t(54)\n\tThe Ice Kickers 57\t25\t(75)\n\tChapman Chaps 57\t25\t(161)\n\tThe ^&#@$#$% Rangers of 1940 57\t25\t(54)\n\tThe Underwriters 57\t25\t(54)\n\tbeam team 57\t25\t(176)\n\tDave Hiebert 57\t25\t(75)\n\tCanuck Force 57\t25\t(176)\n\tEvan Pritchard 57\t25\t(161)\n\tControversy Warriors 57\t25\t(54)\n\tJFZ Dream Team 57\t25\t(141)\n167.\tSan Jose Mahi Mahi 56\t25\t(141)\n\tgo go gagit 56\t25\t(161)\n\tgoddess of fermentation 56\t25\t(54)\n\tbure's blur 56\t25\t(141)\n\tLouisiana Psycho Killers 56\t25\t(141)\n\tEast City Jokers 56\t25\t(102)\n\tTampere Salami 56\t25\t(176)\n\tJOE'S A CRAK HEAD 56\t25\t(102)\n\tGrant Marven 56\t25\t(75)\n\tMark And Steve Dreaming Again 56\t25\t(75)\n\tPens Dynasty 56\t25\t(161)\n178.\tChip n Dale 55\t25\t(189)\n179.\tCherry Bombers 54\t25\t(161)\n\tBrian Bergman 54\t25\t(189)\n\tThe Goobmeister 54\t25\t(75)\n\tOz 54\t25\t(141)\n\tArm & Hammer 54\t25\t(161)\n\tgax goons 54\t25\t(176)\n\tDaryl Turner 54\t25\t(102)\n186.\tE.I.S 53\t25\t(141)\n\tBOSSE 53\t25\t(75)\n\tMyllypuro Hedgehogs 53\t25\t(161)\n\tChapman Sticks 53\t25\t(176)\n\tHillside Raiders 53\t25\t(185)\n\tKnights on a Power Play 53\t25\t(173)\n192.\tEldoret Elephants 52\t25\t(185)\n\tSparky's Select 52\t25\t(176)\n\tSluggo's Hosers 52\t25\t(173)\n\tbutt ends 52\t25\t(176)\n196.\tlisa's luggers 51\t25\t(197)\n\tStanias Stars 51\t25\t(161)\n198.\tKen De Cruyenaere 49\t25\t(176)\n199.\tGary Shiff 48\t25\t(--)\n200.\tJUKURIT 47\t25\t(176)\n201.\tMontys Nords 45\t25\t(192)\n\tJane's World 45\t25\t(185)\n\tRolaids Required 45\t25\t(189)\n\tMartin's Gag 45\t25\t(194)\n205.\tEquipe Du Jour 44\t25\t(196)\n206.\tArsenal Maple Leafs 41\t18\t(194)\n\tthe ALarmers 41\t25\t(185)\n208.\tKiller Kings 38\t25\t(192)\n-- \nAndrew Scott | andrew@idacom.hp.com\nHP IDACOM Telecom Operation | (403) 462-0666 ext. 253", "I remember a post from last year indicating that a \"pitch clock\" was tried\nin one of the minor leagues some time back and did not work. I don't remember\nwhy they said that it did not work. Anyone remember this?\n\nJody McDonnel on WIP in Phil. has been saying that a pitch clock was\ninevitable. How would a pitch clock work on throws to first?\n\nAnother pair of suggestions:\n1. Remove the Balk rule. It is the runners responsibility to stay \"safe\"\n no matter what the pitcher does.\n\n2. If a pitcher throws to an occupied base more than X time (X = 3 to 5)\n without successfully picking off the runner, the runner advances a base\n as if walked.\n\nThe no-balk seems to give the pitcher the advantage. The base-walk allows\nthe runner to \"challenge\" pitcher to throw over to the base.\n\n\nI too, find myself surfing when I know that it will be enough time between\neach pitch to allow the batter to adjust his \"jewlery\".\n", "\n: Speaking of great players, man-oh-man can Quebec skate. I haven't seen a\n: team so potent on the rush in a long time. Watching them break out of their\n: zone, especially Sundin, is a treat to watch. They remind me of the Red \n: Army. \n\n: dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (pissed-off Habs fan)\n\nYeah, the Nords look like they're going to be good...but (excuse the\nbias) have you ever watched the Pens on a rush?...Don't answer: everyone\nhas seen this footage. Near the end of the season when the Pens played\nthe Nords it was like watching a (younger) double of the Pens. ...The\nNords looked good right up to the point when they lost. \n--\nRavi Shah\nshah+@pitt.edu", "Giant's have a five man rotation of John Burkett, Trevor Wilson,\nBill Swift, Jeff Brantley, and Bud Black/Dave Burba. Black has\nbeen put on the 15 day disables and Dave Burba will take his starts.\n\n", "\nRegardless, they'd have to sparkle from the pressbox. Errey's been\nout a couple games with a hip injury.\n\n\n", "\nJudging by the way the Reds' pitchers have performed thus far, it\nappears to me that the zone has been squeezed to the size of a grape. \n\n1/2 :-)", ": I think most of the problems mainly arose from Manager Gene Mauch's\n: ineptitude in managing the pitching staff. Down the stretch, he\n: abused Jim Bunning, Chris Short, and Robin Roberts (I think those\n: are the three) pitching each on only 2 days rest for quite some\n: time. By the time they hit the last 2 weeks of the season,\n: obviously none of these guys had an ounce left in their arm. Oh\n: well.\n\nRoberts was long gone -- he was probably an Oriole in 1964. Or maybe a\nColt .45. The 3rd starter was Art Mahaffey, the previous year's ace.\nDennis Bennett was the 4th starter.\n\nThey were indeed 6.5 up with 12 to go, but they won their final two\ngames after the horrid 10-loss streak. The final game victory\n(Bunning's 19th win, if memory serves) kept the Reds from tying for the\ntitle; they and the Phils were both 1 game behind the Cards, with the\nGiants(?) another game back. The Mets couldn't hold an early lead\nagainst the Cards that final Sunday, or there would have been a 3-way\ntie. Too bad they couldn't have saved some of the 15 or so runs they\nscored on Saturday when they crushed St. Louis.\n--", " \nWhile we're on the multipurpose subject, let's not forget Shea, which\nwas designed to accommodate both the Mets & Jets. It was the first\nstadium (I think) to have the box seats on rollers so they could be\noriented at right angles for baseball & in parallel for football.\n\nOf course, with the Jets gone to Jersey (and a truly good football\nstadium), the Mets are saddled with a multipurpose stadium where,\nbecause it's circular, the seats are almost always too far from the\naction. The Mets announcers--Kiner & Murphy in particular--have\nalways hyped it as \"beautiful Shea\nStadium,\" a tipoff to how unbeautiful it truly is.", "After the marvelous \"time-out\" call by Chris Webber (which resulted in \na technical foul, since his team had no time-outs left) perhaps Webber \nwill take the place of Bill Buckner as the master of choke. At least \nthis Red Sox fan hopes so.\n\nTed\n", "\n\nI think you missed one of my points there. It takes *more* than a great\nGM to win a stanley cup, even once. Some of the guys on the list you\ngave earlier never won one. I agree that you and I could probably argue\nback and forth for days to no avail about who is the best GM in hockey-\nthat is a matter of opinion, and who is to say my opinion is any better \nthan yours or yours than mine? But the point of my *original* original\npost (if not well stated) was that Murray has the GM abilities but not\nthe coaching abilities. Which leads to below:\n\n\nI think at this point there's a personal, emotional element involved here\nwhich transcends Murray's logical thought. As outsiders, it's fine for \nus to say, \"He should hire a different coach.\" In fact, he has talked about\ndoing so in the past. But, the press (here in Detroit, at least) has so\nbuilt up this business about Murray never getting past the second round of\nthe playoffs as a coach, that I think he has taken it upon himself to \nprove to the world that he *is* capable of coaching a team past the second\nround. He needs to, as the papers say, \"get that monkey off his back.\"\nSo it becomes a matter not of intelligence, but of pride. Is it foolish\nto let pride stand in the way of sound logic? Perhaps, but we're all\na little that way from time to time. I think eventually he'll step down\nfrom behind the bench and concentrate on his GM duties, and the team will\nimprove as a result.\n\nI think his coaching duties take away time he might have otherwise spent\non GM work. In that sense, once he steps down as coach, we'll see how\ngood of a GM he really is.\n\n\nI may not agree with everything you've said, but it's been fun discussing\nit with you.\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nNice try Deepak, but \"tough Whaler squad\" should have clued you in to the\nfact that my Leaf woofing was tongue-in-cheek.\n\nIf playoff hockey is any more intense than the regular season variety then\nit is because the teams are facing each other at least 4 consecutive times\nin 7 days and hockey being the contact sport that it is, some things will\nbe carried over that might dissipate during the regular season. But that is\nonly for some of the players. Many of the rest, who have been playing with\ninjuries, who miss their families, or who, like Grant Fuhr, would really\nrather be playing golf, don't really give a damn. Of course I can't say this\nfor sure, but I believe that this is fairly typical of human nature and I\ndon't think that hockey players are above having what I consider typically\nhuman attitudes. \n\nWith the recent salary escalations the key players are actually losing \nmoney by participating in the playoffs. The ones who regard the playoff\n\"take\" as some kind of a bonanza are fringe players who are unlikely\nto consistently be a force in the playoffs. Now I know some of you are\ngoing to come back with \"winning spirit\" and all of that crap but these\nplayers are professionals after all. While they may love to play the \ngame that love is entirely incidental to their purpose, which is, to make\na decent living. \n\nOf course, the coach is a professional as well, and part of what he is \nbeing paid to do is motivate the players. So, if the coach does his\njob well enough the players may respond with a winning effort.\n\nThe second season, is after all, merely an exhibition. The true Champions\nof the league are the division winners, the teams that come out on top \nafter the long struggle of the season. The Stanley cup playoffs merely\naccord victory to the team that has remained healthy and \"hot\". The \nemphasis on the playoffs, with their \"sudden death\" appeal has been promoted\nby the media and the owners with profit purely in mind. Even if Pittsburgh\nloses the playoffs, we all know that they were really the best team in the\nleague over the year. They proved it.\n\ncordially, as always,\n\nrm\n", " ^\nI'd make that, \"1 BIG, MAD, and HUNGRY with CUBS NEARBY Polar bear @...\"\n\nDrew ", "\nYou can't be serious! I and many of my colleagues have not received any\nbad e-mails from Roger, in fact, Roger happens to have answered most if not\nall of my hockey questions and curiosities, so before you start flaming\nat me or Roger, better re-consider your nasty attitude towards Roger and the\nlike!\n\n", "\n\nYeah I think we're used to it by now. (even if some of us do change our\n.sigs to root for our second favorite teams :-)\n\n\nI'll be happy if they win it before I get out of school. (the way it's going\nI may be here saying Piled Higher and Deeper before long)\n\n\nI have a feeling that alot of people out there may not like this statement\nbut......\nby far the worst \"band wagon\" fans are the PIT fans (at least at the present).\nCase in Point -- I know a guy who just came to Hockey Hell(TM) from Pitt U.\nHim - \"How 'bout the Pens? The're F-ing awesome\"\nMe - \"Yeah but beating up on the Devils doesn't mean alot. Wait until\n\tthey meet Boston and/or Detroit in the Playoffs start.\"\nHim - \"When do the Playoffs start?\"\nMe - \"Uhhhh. They started a week ago.\"\n\nI'm not saying that this is true of all the Waddlers fans but there seems to \nbe alot of them floating around who really know nothing about hockey except\nthat they're newly beloved Waddlers are the best team in the game right now\nand when they're not the best team those fans will disappear into the woodwork.\n\nJohn\nFlames >> dev/null\nSerious comments welcomed.\n\"Eat the Rich\"\n\n", "\nNot bad. We had a similar situation. Slowpitch softball, bases loaded,\nweakest hitter at the plate. He hits a line drive over the third\nbaseman's head that hooked and hooked and finally landed ten feet in\nfoul ground, almost hitting the fence down that side of the field.\nBut the umpire called fair ball! I was coaching third, yelling at evrybody \nto move up a base. The ump's position: \"it was still fair when it\npassed third base\". \nWhy the other team didn't immediately protest I'll never know; we\ncertainly weren't going to argue about it, since every body did manage\nto advance one base safely.\n\nThere was also the time when a batted ball ricocheted off my (runner\nfrom second base) leg, fielded by the SS, steps on second to force the\nrunner from first, and throw to first in time for what the umpire\ncalled a triple play; protest removed when we won the game anyway.", " \n\nMore like Philadelphia making dust out of dead Leafs.\nRoger why do you continue to embarass yourself with your brash predictions?\n\nThey got whitewashed by a last place team. Granted Philly is pretty decent\nbut the \"best team in the Cambell Conference\" would have beaten a last\nplace team.\n", "\nYeh,but :\n\n1.Biran Sutter's playoff record as the head coach in St.L wasn't very\nimpressive. His Blues teams were eliminated very early in the playoffs.\nIt doesn't look like this trend will change with the Bruins.\n\n2. Bruins have never come back to win after falling behind 2-0 in their\nentire 68-year history. It doesn't look like Buffalo will just lose\ntheir next two games at the Aud with the way Fuhr has been standing on\nhis head.\n\nBasically,the Bruins will be on the golf course by next weekend.\nAlso,it seems like the whole Boston area has gone baseball crazy after\nan incredibly great start by the Red Sox(best record in their major\nleagues as of now). I would say that 70% of the callers to the Bruins'\nflagship station(SportsRadio 590) are talking about the Red Sox,about\n15% are yapping about the Patriots' upcoming draft,10% are on the Celtics\nand about 5% are on the Bruins.\nSomehow,no one around here is really schocked the way Bruins are folding\nearly.", "\n\nWell, as a hockey fan, I think it's terrible. It's one thing to say, \"Hey, \nlet's give a hockey team to cities that don't have one!\" -- that's fine. It's\nentirely another to say, \"Okay, let's take a team from a thriving hockey town\nand move it!\" \n\nOf course, none of us will ever know the real inside story, but\nfrom what I know, a group of Minneapolis businessmen told Green repeatedly that\nthey would purchase the remaining 3600 (?) season tickets to get to the 10,000\nlevel that Green wanted, yet he refused every time. It's pretty obvious that he\nwas determined to get out of Minneapolis at any cost and use the season tickets\nthing as an excuse. \n\nI was fortunate enough to get to the penultimate game, and\nthe fans were great! People were tailgating and playing roller hockey in the\nparking lot before the game, the attendance was so full as to have SRO, and the\nwhole atmosphere in the Centre was terrific. Minnesota IS Hockey, USA. How the\nNHL can so blithely let the major league team from there move away is beyond \nme. I only hope they get a new team soon.\n\nJust my $0.02.\n\n\n-- Ali.\n", "One last infield fly question that has always puzzled me and hasn't\nyet been addressed. I believe the rule also does *not* deal with this\nsituation:\n\nIf Infield Fly is declared and the ball is caught, runners can tag up\nand advance at their own risk, as on any fly ball.\n\nHowever, if the Infield Fly is *not* caught, at what point can a\nrunner legally leave his base w/o fear of being doubled off for\nadvancing too early? When the\nball hits the ground? When a fielder first touches the ball after it\nhits the ground?\n\nEnlightenment would be appreciated.", "\nAt least we got somebody the Flyers wanted ;-)\n\nIs this really true? I have not been keeping up with any news. If it is,\nwhat's the deal with Neil Smith? Is he gone, too?\n\n--\n Keith Keller\t\t\t\tLET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!\n\t\t\t\t\t\tLET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!\n\tkkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu\t\tIVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!", "\nAm I supposed to take that as a compliment or a put down? Just wondering.\nI do this as a service to the entire baseball world on USENET, especially\nfor those in the East Coast who can't get final scores for West Coast games\nin their newspapers or late TV newscasts. This is helpful to fans in other\ncountries who either receive only weekly scores or updates by the week. Also,\nmany have requested for this kind of service previously but it was only\navailable through BBS's or some pay news services. By the way, mine is free\nof charge and has no copyright restrictions.\n\n\nRemember I only post final scores and the updated standings once a day to the\nrec.sport.baseball newsgroup. Other than that, everything is done through\nprivate e-mail. Currently, there are 986 people on my mailing list that\nbranches off into other mailing lists available for many others. And the list\ngrows by an average of 35 people a day.\n\nIf people on USENET really don't want to see the postings I do to\nrec.sport.baseball on a daily basis, please just let me know. If the response\nis overwhelming against the posts, I won't do it anymore. \n\nThanks for your time.\n\nJoseph Hernandez\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nJoseph Hernandez | RAMS | | /.\\ ******* _|_|_ / | LAKERS\njtchern@ocf.Berkeley.EDU | KINGS | |__ | | DODGERS _|_|_ | | RAIDERS\njtcent@soda.Berkeley.EDU | ANGELS |____||_|_| ******* | | |___| CLIPPERS", "\n\n\nI heard it will be the Minnesota-Detroit game. Don't know the time\nthough.\n\nDave\n", "\nGant's ML record Age 28 this season.\n\nYear G AB BA OBP SLG HR SB CS\n1987 21 83 .265 .271 .386 2 4 2\n1988 146 563 .259 .317 .439 19 19 10 <-- 3rd Base Expt. year\n1989 75 260 .177 .237 .335 9 9 6\n1990 152 575 .303 .357 .539 32 33 16\n1991 154 561 .251 .338 .496 32 34 15\n1992 153 544 .259 .321 .415 17 32 10\n\nIn the majors for parts of 6 seasons, total playing time\napprox 4.5 seasons.\n\nJust looking at his hitting record, he's had 2 seasons of OPS\ngreater than .800, which is pretty good for an OF. His\n1988 season is pretty decent for a rookie 2B. The move to\nthird base explains a lot of his 1989. When he returned as an OF,\nhe began hitting again. And of course, last year he slumped.\n\nBut no learning curve? He has obviously improved his batting eye\nover the years, as well as his SB/CS ratio. As to his fielding,\nhe was an infielder when he was drafted, a 2Bman as he came\nup through the Braves system, and then the Braves put him through\n2 position changes in the space of a year. He's an adequate OF,\nalthough not great, and at least some of your perception of his\nfielding is colored by watching him learn to play the OF at the\nML level. (I know you're another long-term Braves fan :)\n\nAbout playing 3B...IMO, that's the 2nd most DIFFICULT position\nto field, after catcher. At SS or 2B, you need more range and \nspeed, but at 3B, you've got to have quick reflexes and have \na GUN for an arm. There are NO second chances at 3B, even when\nplaying sandlot softball! Granted, I'd still put my best\noverall infielder at SS, but that's because he gets more\nchances, not because the job is harder. It still amazes me\nthat so many teams have tried to convert other position players\nto 3B. But maybe that's because the supply of \"natural\" 3B is\nscarce.\n\nFinally, Gant is a player who puts pressure on himself to\nperform well, and works hard to improve. You don't get\nthose amazingly huge arms on that relatively small body without a\nlot of weight work. Now, whether he's been overdoing it these\ndays may be a valid question, as is the question of whether\nhe tries too hard to make something happen during each at-bat.\nBut frankly, if a player is going to not live up to potential,\nI'd much rather they fail by trying too hard, than by not\ntrying hard enough. You might be able to teach relaxation\nto an adult; but at that age I don't believe you can teach\nhustle.\n\nAll that said, I don't think I'd sign Gant to another long-term\ncontract. He's 28 now, and I think he's free-agent eligible\nin 2 years, when he'll be 30. Given his career curve and\nlimitations, I wouldn't expect him to last much past 35\nas a ML ballplayer. He might surprise me here, but Atlanta's\ngot some talent on the farm, and I'd rather take my chances\ndown the road with Nieves et al.", "\nWhat can you expect from a buffoon who said that the Pens should have\ndrafted Kirk Muller instead of Mario Lemieux? \n\nPerhaps once upon a time Don Cherry had some insight into the game of\nhockey, but he's really degenerated into a parody of himself.", "I was thinking about who on each of the teams were the MVPs, biggest\nsurprises, and biggest disappointments this year. Now, these are just\nmy observations and are admittedly lacking because I have not had an\nopportunity to see all the teams the same amount. Anyway....\n \nMVP = most valuable player to his team both in terms of points and\n in terms of leadership (\"can't win without him\")\n \nBiggest surprise = the player who rose above expectation -- the player\n that may have raised the level of his game to a new height, even\n if that new level doesn't necessarily warrant an allstar berth\n (includes those players who at the outset of the season, may not\n even have been in the team's plans).\n \nBiggest disappointment = the player from whom we expected more (e.g., I\n picked Denis Savard in Montreal because with the new emphasis on\n offence brought by Demers, shouldn't Savard have done better?)\n \n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\n \n Team Biggest Biggest\nTeam: MVP: Surprise: Disappointment:\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\nBoston Bruins Oates D.Sweeney Wesley\nBuffalo Sabres Lafontaine Mogilny Audette (jinx?)\nCalgary Flames Roberts Reichel Petit\nChicago Blackhawks Roenick Ruuttu Goulet\nDetroit Red Wings Yzerman Chaisson Kozlov\nEdmonton Oilers Manson Buchberger Mellanby\nHartford Whalers Sanderson Cassells Corriveau\nLos Angeles Kings Robitaille Donnelly Hrudey\nMinnesota North Stars Modano Tinordi(not expected back) Broten\nMontreal Canadiens Muller Lebeau Savard\nNew Jersey Devils Stevens Semak MacLean\nNew York Islanders Turgeon King(finally) Marois\nNew York Rangers Messier Kovalev Bourque\nOttawa Senators MacIver Baker Jelinek\nPhiladelphia Flyers Lindros/Recchi Fedyk/Galley Eklund\nPittsburgh Penguins Lemieux Tocchet(even for him) Jagr\nQuebec Nordiques Sakic/Ricci Kovalenko Pearson\nSan Jose Sharks Kisio Gaudreau Maley\nSt Louis Blues Shanahan C.Joseph Ron Sutter\nTampa Bay Lightening Bradley Bradley Creighton/Kasper\nToronto Maple Leafs Gilmour Potvin Ellett/Anderson\nVancouver Canucks Bure Nedved(finally) Momesso\nWashington Capitals Hatcher Bondra/Cote Elynuik\nWinnipeg Jets Selanne Selanne Druce\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n \nAs I mentioned up top, these are my *impressions* from where I sit. I\nwould welcome any opinions from those fans nearer their teams (in other\nwords, *anywhere* away from a Toronto newspaper!)", "If you are interested in receiving the final player stats for\nthe 1992-1993 NHL Season as well as playoff box scores, stats and\nscores/updates...\nthen e-mail my stat server\n\nmmilitzo@skidmore.edu", "\nI agree and disagree. John is saying that the batters efforts will result\nin 4 more wins then losses. While you are probably correct that 400%\ndoes not mean 4 more wins then losses, it means something. I would\nrather have a player who increased my teams chances of winning by 1% in\neach of 400 PAs then I would a player who increased my chances of winning\nby .5% in each of 400 PAs. Thus, there appears to me to be an obvious\npositive association between John's statistic and winning games. Thus,\nbefore you disregard this stat, it appears to me that further study must\ngo into what sort of relationship there is.\n\n\nThe only problem here is an insistance that these number mean exactly\nhow many wins the team has. First, we are using averages over many\nseasons and applying them to one game. Second, remember some players\nperformance take away from the chance of you winning. That is a\nplayer who gets an out gets a \"negative probability\" in most cases.\nThus, I'm not sure in any given game when you add up all the numbers\nfor a team who won that they will add up to 1 in that game. Sometimes,\nthey will add up to more then one sometime, less than one. Also,\nthe pitchers' bad performances (giving up 6 runs) may have given\nthem a large negative percentage for that game. Also, any batter that\npulled an 0-4 night would give large negatives. \n\n\n\n\nNo, but really only because you have a smaller sample size. I would\nthink however, that the number of runs you score in the first inning\nwould be just as good as a prediction as how many runs you score \nin the last inning. And, realize something else a closer usually\ncomes in in a close situation, not a blow out. It is hard to argue\nthat any runs that a closer gives up in a game have equal importance\nto those given up in the first inning. Look, a closer giving up runs\noften means a team will lose many games. On, the other hand a starter\nwho gives up runs often still leaves his team a chance to win. The\noffence has many more outs to do something about. But, I am not\nsaying all late inning situations are equally important either. If\nI am down 8 runs in the ninth, it really does not matter how many\nruns my pitcher gives up in the ninth. \n\n\n\nNo, but why would you assume that the teams probability of winning would\nbe 0 before the possesion in which the free throws were made. Look,\nif you are down 1 point with 5 seconds left, there is a fairly high\nprobability that you will win the game if you are in possesion of the\nball. And, do not forget that somebody elses missed shots, turnovers,\nfouls, bad defense, etc. caused a \"negative chance\" that the team\nwould win.\n \nFrom reading all of the discussion on this statistic, I feel that those\nwho critisize it to a certain extent are doing so out of an agenda.\nAt first look this statistic valadates clutchness. But, it really\ndoes not. Cluthness revolves around the idea that certain players\nin crucial situation elevate their performance and others performance\ngoes down. I've never seen convincing proof that this really happens.\nSo, if you assume there is no clutchness, then that means that except\nfor a lot of noice, this statistic has a positive association to\nplayer performance. There is a way to get rid of the noice if you\ndo not believe in clutchness. Certainly, we could find out what\nthe average value of a home run is for example. We may find for\ninstance, that a home run increases your chance of winning by 15%\non average while a strikeout decreases your chance of winning by 5%.\nI bet if this were done we would find that this statistic was just\nas good as other statistics we have for predicting wins and losses.\n\nHow do we evaluate relief pitchers? Say John and Sam have the\nexact same pitching statistics (runs, earned runs, K's, BB's,\netc.) Both had exceptional numbers. John, however only pitched\nin closer situations, while Sam was a Mop up man. Who was more\nvaluble to their team? Probably John. Who was the better \npitcher? They were probably about the same.", "Rawley Eastwick\n", "NHL RESULTS FOR GAMES PLAYED 4/14/93.\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n STANDINGS\n PATRICK ADAMS NORRIS SMYTHE\n TM W L T PT TM W L T PT TM W L T PT TM W L T PT\n \nxPIT 56 21 7 119 xBOS 51 26 7 109 xCHI 46 25 12 104 xVAN 45 29 9 99\nyWAS 42 34 7 91 yQUE 47 27 10 104 yDET 46 28 9 101 yCAL 42 30 11 95\nyNJ 40 36 7 87 yMON 48 30 6 102 yTOR 44 28 11 99 yLA 39 34 10 88\nyNYI 39 37 7 85 yBUF 38 35 10 86 STL 36 36 11 83 yWIN 39 37 7 85\n PHL 34 37 11 79 HAR 26 51 6 58 MIN 36 37 10 82 EDM 26 49 8 60\n NYR 34 38 11 79 OTT 10 70 4 24 TB 23 53 7 53 SJ 11 70 2 24\n\nx - Clinched Division Title\ny - Clinched Playoff Berth\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nBoston Bruins (51-26-7) 2 2 0 - 4\nOttawa Senators (10-70-4) 0 1 1 - 2\n\n1st period: BOS, Roberts 5 - (Juneau) 7:19\n\t BOS, Wiemer 1 - (Juneau, Oates) 17:47\n\n2nd period: BOS, Neely 11 - (Juneau, Murphy) 6:10\n\t BOS, Hughes 5 - (Richer, Kimble) 7:55\n\t OTT, Archibald 9 - (Rumble, Lamb) 11:37\n\t \n3rd period: OTT, Boschman 9 - (Kudelski) 5:10\n\nPowerplay Opportunities-Bruins 0 of 2\n\t\t\tSenators 0 of 4\n\nShots on Goal-\tBruins 13 11 10 - 34\n\t\tSenators 5 9 12 - 26\n\nBoston Bruins--Moog (36-14-3) (8 shots - 8 saves) Blue (9:38 second) \n\t (18 shots - 16 saves)\nOttawa Senators--Sidorkiewicz (8-46-3) (27 shots - 23 saves) Berthiaume\n\t\t (6:36 third) (7 shots - 7 saves)\n\nATT-10,500\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nWashington Capitals (42-34-7) 0 0 2 - 2\nNew York Rangers (34-38-11) 0 0 0 - 0\n\n1st period: NONE\n\n2nd period: NONE\n\n3rd period: WAS, Bondra 36 - (Pivonka, Cavallini) 6:54\n\t WAS, Bondra 37 - (Cote, Pivonka) 10:10\n\nPowerplay Opportunities-Capitals 0 of 2\n\t\t\tRangers 0 of 1\n\nShots on Goal-\tCapitals 16 11 12 - 39\n\t\tRangers 8 7 8 - 23\n\nWashington Capitals--Tabaracci (7-11-0) (23 shots - 23 saves)\nNew York Rangers--Richter (13-17-3) (39 shots - 37 saves)\n\nATT-17,897\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nNew York Islanders (39-37-7) 2 1 1 0 - 4\nHartford Whalers (26-51-6) 2 1 1 1 - 5\n\n1st period: NYI, Ferraro 13 - (Malakhov, King) 1:29\n\t NYI, Hogue 32 - (Thomas, Turgeon) 1:57\n\t HAR, Yake 21 - (Poulin) 4:15\n\t HAR, Yake 22 - (Nylander, Poulin) 16:44\n\n2nd period: HAR, Verbeek 39 - (Cassels, Weinrich) (pp) 2:43\n\t NYI, Thomas 35 - (King, Ferraro) 7:58\n\n3rd period: HAR, Burt 5 - (Sanderson, Cassels) 13:41\n\t NYI, Malakhov 14 - (Hogue) 17:45\n\nOvertime: HAR, Janssens 12 - (Poulin) 1:08\n\nPowerplay Opportunities-Islanders 0 of 3\n\t\t\tWhalers 1 of 3\n\nShots on Goal-\tIslanders 16 8 7 1 - 32\n\t\tWhalers 7 13 7 1 - 28\n\nNew York Islanders--Fitzpatrick (16-15-5) (28 shots - 23 saves)\nHartford Whalers--Lenaduzzi (1-0-1) (32 shots - 28 saves)\n\nATT-10,915\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nPittsburgh Penguins (56-21-7) 2 3 1 0 - 6\nNew Jersey Devils (40-36-7) 2 4 0 0 - 6\n\n1st period: PIT, Daniels 5 - (Needham, Tippett) 4:14\n\t NJD, C.Lemieux 29 - (Semak, Driver) 10:19\n\t PIT, K.Stevens 55 - (Tocchet, Murphy) (pp) 12:40\n\t NJD, Zelepukin 22 - (Driver, Niedermayer) 17:26\n\n2nd period: PIT, M.Lemieux 68 - (Stevens, Tocchet) 1:42\n\t NJD, Semak 36 - (C.Lemieux, Zelepukin) 2:27\n\t PIT, McEachern 28 - (Jagr, Barrasso) 4:24\n\t NJD, S.Stevens 12 - (Guerin, Pellerin) 5:45\n\t PIT, M.Lemieux 69 - (sh) 12:40\n\t NJD, Richer 37 - (Nicholls) 15:53\n\t NJD, C.Lemieux 30 - (Semak, Zelepukin) 17:40\n\n3rd period: PIT, Mullen 33 - (Jagr, M.Lemieux) 18:54\n\nOvertime: NONE\n\nPowerplay Opportunities-Penguins 1 of 5\n\t\t\tDevils 0 of 3\n\nShots on Goal-\tPenguins 9 11 8 2 - 30\n\t\tDevils 12 15 9 3 - 39\n\nPittsburgh Penguins--Barrasso (43-14-5) (39 shots - 33 saves)\nNew Jersey Devils--Billington (21-14-4) (30 shots - 24 saves)\n\nATT-14,796\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n", "\nW --> \nW --> SEE! The Providence Bruins lost the first two games at home and came back to\nW --> tie the series on the road, there may be hope for the Bruins yet!\n\nToast. They're toast. (And I know how much you want me to eat these \nwords, but it ain't gonna happen.) Are the golf courses in the Boston \narea in playable condition yet?\n\n- Jack\n\n * Acid consumes 47 times its weight in life!", "Of all teams, I believe the Cubs have the best record ever in baseball.\nSometime way far back. 110+ and something.", ": Goodbye Minnesota,...you never earned the right to have an NHL \n: franchise in the first place!\n: Hope you enjoy your Twin city wide mania for HIGH SCHOOL HOCKEY\n: (hey, by the way my old pee wee team is having a reunion in Regina, care \n: to come up and film the event?)\n: Yee haa Golden Gophers\n: Whatta weird town!!!!!\n\n: s4lawren@sms.business.uwo.ca (Stephen Lawrence)\n: Western Business School -- London, Ontario\n\nThis is the second posting of this kind from an idiot at a business \nschool in Canada. What is your problem up there anyway? Is this what \nthey teach you in business school in Canada?", "DON MATTINGLY IS THE BEST FIRST BASEMAN IN THE HISTORY OF BASEBALL.....ALWAYS\nHAS BEEN.....ALWAYS WILL BE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!\n", "\nWell, on the contrary, I thought Dave was rather taken with her and her\naccent...\"(H)ockey is my passion\"... ", "I don't know. I think Phil Plantier has the ugliest stance. He looks like\nhe's sitting on the toilet.", "\n\nSorry, I still don't buy it. You're certainly right that the runner is\nnot out merely for running out of the baseline: he must interfere with\nthe play. But the argument here is over what constitutes interference.\nYou certainly cannot infer from what you've quoted that the batter-runner\nmust be hit by the ball to be guilty of interference: you haven't posted\na definition of interference at all.\n\nIMO this calls for one of the \"approved ruling[s]\" that go in small print\nin the rulebook. Something like:\n\nAPPROVED RULING:\nIf in the judgement of the umpire the runner, by running to the left\nof the allowed path, caused the fielder to make a bad throw, blocks the\nvision of the fielder receiving the throw, or otherwise impedes the\ndefensive team's making a play on him, the batter-runner shall be\njudeged guilty of interference.\n\nor\n\nAPPROVED RULING:\nThe runner cannot be judged guilty of interference in the unless he makes\ncontact with a fielder or is hit by the thrown ball.\n\n--\nIn the absence of such an approved ruling I claim that this is a poor\nrules trivia question--since it cannot be authoritatively answered.", ": >baseball players, past and present. We weren't able to come up\n: >with much, except for Sandy Koufax, (somebody) Stankowitz, and\n: >maybe John Lowenstein. Can anyone come up with any more. I know\n: >it sounds pretty lame to be racking our brains over this, but\n: >humor us. Thanks for your help.\n: \n", " The roar at Michigan and Trumbull should be loader than ever this year. With\nMike Illitch at the head and Ernie Harwell back at the booth, the tiger bats\nwill bang this summer. Already they have scored 20 runs in two games and with\nFielder, Tettleton, and Deer I think they can win the division. No pitching!\nBull! Gully, Moore, Wells, and Krueger make up a decent staff that will keep\nthe team into many games. Then there is Henneman to close it out. Watch out\nBoston, Toronto, and Baltimore - the Motor City Kittys are back.\n", "\n\nThere is a great book out called \"They Also Served\" which is about the \nballplayers during WWII. There is some info on Berg in there. It also has \ninfo on Pete Gray (one armed outfielder) and other players of the era. Because\nof the draft many players during the war were those who were exempt from the\ndraft for medical reasons. There are some very interesting stories in the\nbook. It is very well written and I would suggest reading it to anyone with an \ninterest in baseball.\n\nRob Koffler\n", "Here's an easy question for someone who knows nothing about baseball...\n\n What city do the California Angels play out of?\n\n\n\n-- \nRichard J. Rauser \"You have no idea what you're doing.\"\nrauser@sfu.ca \"Oh, don't worry about that. We're professional\nWNI outlaws - we do this for a living.\"", "I've been following the Giants closely over the off-season -- newspapers,\nnotesgroup, etc -- but I had my first up close and personal last night at\nthe Stick.\n\nAfter watching Giants hitters struggle last year, Barry's swing was \nvery impressive -- he's very quick and his swing seems effortless, even\ncompared to Clark (particularly Clark as of late).\n\nIt was interesting to see Bonds hit Maddux so well. I'm not sure if\nBarry was after revenge against the Braves or what but he stroked\nthree very pretty hits (1b, 2b, hr) for 5 rbi's.\n\nThe Giants as a team are doing a lot of surprising things this year in\naddition to Bonds. There has been some good pitching and some hitters\nseem to be swinging much better. Clayton's defense has been superb.\nMcGee seems to like leading off this year. Manwaring is driving the ball.\nSo on & so forth.\n\nI hope it continues...I think they need to continue well into June before\npeople are really sold that they are for real--particularly the pitching.\n\nFor myself, I think the fresh start of Magowan/Baker/etc has really wiped\nout a lot of negatives from the last few years and will be a real factor\nin helping them significantly improve over last year.", "\n\nWhoa there! Lighten up, Andrew! When I was referring to \"you dorks at\nthe Western Business School\", I was specifically referring to those\nassholes writing obnoxious comments insulting the state and people of\nMinnesota for no apparent reason. Being Canadian, and one who has\nfriends who attended UWO, I personally don't want to be associated with\nthe idiots who wrote those messages. One more thing, Andrew...until\nthis season, the Leafs have sucked pretty badly over the last umpteen\nyears (have they won the Cup during our lifetime?)...so the North Stars\nhaven't been the only \"shit\" team in the Norris.", "\nAs long as a player is under contract to an organization, he is obligated to\nplay only where that organization tells him to play or gives him permission\nto play. The Rangers are certainly within their rights to force Zubov and\nAndersson to report to Binghampton. \n\nIt certainly does reflect a lack of class on the part of the Ranger \norganization, however. Is having Binghampton win the Calder Cup really more\nimportant to them than keeping their players happy? ", "Just a few lines about my favorite team sweeping the Dodgers (one of \nmy least favorite) in LA (Sweet!). Also the Mets (my other least \nfavorite team) loss to the Rockies made this this a great day and a \ngreat start to the weekend as the Cardinals are on the ESPN tonight.\n\nBig Lee Smith is having a great start and the Cardinals seem to be\nhitting in the clutch even though they have had a few games with lots\nof hits and not many runs. Hopefully with the coaches stress on\nsituational hitting in spring training, the runners LOB will be lower\nthis year (probably due to the high strikeout numbers by Jose and\nLankford and Zeile's off year).\n\nI don't know why all the fuss about the Fillies. The media and all the \nFilly fans on r.s.b forget who is right behind them in the standings. \nGive the Wild Thing a week or two before he starts blowing some games \nand we'll see who is in first then. I believe the Cardinal pitching \nstaff is more complete than the Filly staff and that will make the\ndifference.\n\nOn a side note, a few years ago (5-6), a comment was made by some \nbaseball player or manager about the Dodger defense. He was asked \nwhere to hit the ball against the Dodgers and he replied \"Fair.\" I \nremember it being in the \"They Said It\" section of Sports Illustrated.\nI would like to know who said it and what issue it was in.\n\nGO REDBIRDS!!", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\nI too am of the same sentiment Bart, but realistically, this town DOESN'T WANT TO pay for \nquality player and hence we are loosing these people left, right and center.\nLabour is also responsible for their boycott Pocklington movement.\nI would like the Oilers to stay, but realistically, given this situation, it's \nbye-bye Oilers.", "The mission to revive hockey at UMass is now underway. At the 4 PM Saturday\nafternoon press conference held at the new Mullins Center Arena - former\nBoston College Asst. Coach Joe Mallen was awarded the 4 year, $85,000/year\ncontract as Head Coach for the UMass Minutemen. \n\nMallen was the third viable pick for the position, right behind Jeff Jackson\n(Lake Superior) and second behind Shawn Walsh (UMaine). Previous offers for \nthe position were rumored to have been offered to the asst. coaches of\nBrown, RPI and the head coach of the AHL Springfield Indians.\n\nUMass hockey was disbanded in 1979 due to financial constraints that had\nundermined the team's position over a period of years. In late November\nof last year, the $52 million Mullins Sports Center was opened following\nits one year construction deadline. \n\nThe Minutemen are slated to play an independent Div II/Div III schedule this\nupcoming winter before officially entering Hockey East for the Winter 1994\nseason. Mallen has yet to comment on player recruitment strategies or\npotential team candidates for the Minutemen - it is expected that he will\nleverage off his inside contacts within New England, the Bay State and\nEurope to draw on competitive, top ice players for the University.\n\nUMass has slated 18 hockey scholarships for the upcoming Fall semester ; \nexpect to hear more from me as I hear more from my sources.\n\n.... J.D.\n\n\n+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+\nJim Doyle \tUniv. of Massachusetts - Dept. of Computer Science\n\nStaff Programmer\tPUMA/DCC/CNET\t email:\tdoyle@gaia.cs.umass.edu", "\nYep, though my reasons for being relatively quiet are simple...last year\nI woofed when we went up 3-1 on the Canucks...and look where it got me. :)\n\nDomi got tossed in the 2nd with a high-sticking major. He had been\nplaying with Kris King and Stu Barnes...and it was this line that was\narguably the best in the first two games.\n\nDefinitely a good thing...every little cheer helps, Evan. :)\nGood thing the net doesn't need a voice to operate...I won't have one\nSunday night when I get home, I hope. White noise here we come! ;)\n\nOne thing, I WILL say though...Vancouver can KEEP Steve Armitage and\nJohn Garrett as a broadcast team...those two are BAD, especially when\nyou are spoiled by Don Wittman. (At least four or five times, Steve called\nBarnes Selanne. Whoops! :)", "} >I'd have to say the most impressive HRs I've ever see came from Dave Kingman\n} >and his infamous moon-raker drives...\n} \n} I remember one he hit circa 1976 at Wrigley Field that went across\n} the street (in dead center field) and hit a house on the roof. He\n} whiffed a lot, but when he *did* connect, watch out!\n\nthe best home run i have *ever* seen came off, believe it or not,\nRoger Clemens (sorry, Val) a couple of years ago. he threw a ball to\nIncaviglia which was literally at Inky's neck, and he absolutely \nhammered the crap out of it. after the swing, Clemens nonchalantly\nmotioned for a new ball--he didn't even turn around to look, or\neven get upset. the ball hit the lights in the left-field standard,\nsome 70 or so feet about the Green Monster (over 100 feet above the\nground total!)\n\ntruly an amazing shot.", " writes...\n\n\n\n\nOh, probably.\n\nMs. Nichols has given the average game times (and average runs scored) for\n1983 and 1992. (A very nice piece of information, Ms. Nichols. Who knows?\nShe may be listening, and not have me in her kill file after all.) Those\nnumbers indicate somewhere in the neighborhood of half-a-run *less* being\nscored per game, and the games taking 15 minutes *longer*. Something is\nbeing done now that wasn't done ten years ago, which is extending the games\nby 15 minutes. Ms. Nichols thinks it's more pitches. Given the increasing\nspecialization of pitchers, it wouldn't surprise me.\n\nIf it's not simply more pitches, though, I don't think it's unreasonable\nto think that something can be done to get ten of those minutes back. Then\nI get a couple more from shortening the warmup time for a relief pitcher\nafter he comes in, and a couple more still from enforcing existing rules,\nwhich have been stated in other posts in this thread (and other related ones).\n\nThe problem is, who decides whether that time is \"wasted?\" You don't seem\nto think it is at all. Right now, I think it is, although I have heard one\ncase favoring giving the reliever all the warmups he thinks he needs (the\ndifference in mounds between the field and pen) -- but who knows? If the\nrules get changed, maybe something I didn't foresee will happen to change my\nmind. But you can bet a lot of minds would fail to foresee the same thing,\nor else nothing will be changed.\n\nRG", "*****************************\n * WARRIORS TICKETS FOR SALE *\n *****************************\n\nI have 2 tickets that I can't use (Last pair this year).\n\nSection 109, Row P, Seats 8 & 9\n\nDAY\tDATE\tOPPONENT\tTIME\t\n---\t----\t--------\t----\t\nWED 4/21 Sacremento 7:30\n\nPrice: $45.00 = MY COST\n\nCall or email if you are interested in these tickets.\n", "Has David Wells landed with a team yet? I'd think the Tigers with their \nanemic pitching would grab this guy pronto!", "\nStill here. Just doing a little sobbing in our beer so we're to busy to\npost :-)\n\nSeriously I think I caught a .sig curse from Nelson :-)\nFirst the $%@#$%$ Rangers and $50 now the B's......\nHmmm....How bout dem Whalers? (No offense to steveg or others)\n\n\n", "\n\n In the season 92/93 playing for EHC Freiburg/Germany\n\nBenny.", "\nThe San Jose Sharks and Ottawa Senators are each on their second GM\nalready...I'd be willing to wager that both the Sharks and Senators\nwill probably see their 3rd GM's and perhaps their 4th, before we\nsee the Panthers second.", "\n\nI don't really mind the length of games either. If they want to speed\nthe games up in sensible ways, that's fine with me too. However, what\nI object to is the assertion by baseball people (Whitey Herzog, Buck\nRodgers are who I've heard say this) that games are too long because\nhitters are taking too many pitches, and that the strike zone needs to\nbe expanded.", "Ok, it seems that everyone else in canada was treated to the \nREAL ABC telecast while only the people on ROGERS TV in Surrey BC \nwere treated to two channels with Don \"I stink as a Commentator\" Whitman\ndoing the play-by-play.", "Oh, yea, and Chris Bosio pitched a NO-HITTER. One over the minimum, two\nbases on ball in the first inning, one runner left, 95 pitches. I listened\nto the game on radio and listening to Dave Niehaus call the game was a\nreal treat (as long as they keep Ron Fairly quite, I doubt if anyone is\nbetter than Niehaus -- but that Fairly guy is really annoying me).\n\nBut, I guess if Clemens or Viola had been pitching, it would have \nbeen a different story :-)\n\nTwo shutouts in two nights against the hottest, best hitting team in\nMajor League baseball .... Pretty impressive in any league.\n\nMan, if Johnson, Bosio and Hanson keep going the Mariners could be a \nreally interesting team to follow this year. Also, John Cummings (rookie)\nhas had three solid outings with no support. If Fleming comes back \nthis may be the best starting staff in the American League this year\n(relief is another story, though - grimace).\n\nToo cool. The first no-hitter that I have been able to follow from \nstart to end. And again, I think Niehaus will win some kind of award\nfor the way he called the game. The guy is truly a joy to listen to --\nhe deserves a pennant race ...", "\n\nActually, they're pretty worthless, if you want to evaluate players\nwith stats. RBIs and Runs Scored should be banned; all they do is\nconfuse victims of mediot brainwashing like yourself. \n\n You\n\n\nUh, so?\n\nYou've just explained why we use OBP and SLG to evaluate players.\nPrecisely because the team that scores more runs wins the game.\nTraditional baseball stats have gotten way too far away from methods\nwhich enable fans to see who contributes to those runs scored - that's\nwhere OBP, SLG, Runs Created, Linear Weights, etc. come in. These\nsimplify matters so that we can more easily measure a player's\noffensive contribution to the team's runs scored.\n\nThank you for making our case. Have a nice day.", "\n Another pair of suggestions:\n 1. Remove the Balk rule. It is the runners responsibility to stay \"safe\"\n no matter what the pitcher does.\n\n 2. If a pitcher throws to an occupied base more than X time (X = 3 to 5)\n without successfully picking off the runner, the runner advances a base\n as if walked.\n\nThis last suggestion will probably increase the number of stolen bases\nconsiderably. Suppose the pitcher uses up (N-1) of his N pick-off\nattempts. The runner can probably stretch his lead off the base,\ngiven that there will be extra pressure on the pitcher to get it\nright this time.\n\nWould this suggestion apply to pick-off attempts per pitch, per\nbatter, or per base runner (on the same base)?\n\n\n--\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDr. Edward J. Baranoski \nMIT Lincoln Laboratory \"It's got to be the going,\nRm. J-118D, PO Box 73 not the getting there that's good\"\nLexington, MA 02143 --Harry Chapin, from \"Greyhound\"\n(617)981-0480", "Has anyone heard what game ESPN is showing tonight. They said they will\nshow whatever game means the most playoff-wise. I would assume this would\nbe the Blues-Tampa game or the Minnesota-Red Wings game... Anyone heard for\nsure???\n", " \n\t\t\t\t\tsigned contract for EV Landshut, Germany\n\t\t\t\t\tfor the 1993/94 season\n \n\t\t\t\t\tEC Hedos Muenchen, Germany\n\t\t\t\t\tsince 1992. \n\nHolger \n", "\nI can't let this pass.\n*If* the Islanders get past Pitts. (Assuming the Isles beat the Caps, God \nWilling), them I'm sorry, the Isles will crush the Leafs.\nFlame shields up.\n\n********************************************************************************\nOf course no one asked me I always interject my opinions on matters I have no \nconcern over \n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGo Islanders!!!!!! (3 down, 1 to go)\nGo Jets for '93\n********************************************************************************\n", "I had heard the rumors about LA, Cin, Hou, and SD all being\ninterested in Mark Davis, so it doesn't surprise me that a\nteam had to give up something and cash to actually get him.\n\nLynch \"MOB\"", "\nA guy who threw 240 innings with about .6 run lower ERA would have saved the\nbullpen even more. Say, somebody like Frank Viola (238 innings).\n\n\nNice audition tape. Send it to:\n Baseball Tonight\n ATTN: Ray Knight\n ESPN\n Bristol, CT\n\nHave you, by chance, taken a look at the boxscores from last year to\ndetermine the accuracy of your account? I seem to recall Morris getting at\nleast 3 or 4 wins last year when the Jays came back from behind after they\nhad decided to pull Morris at the end of an inning.\n\n Mike Jones | AIX High-End Development | mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com", "#21\tPETER AHOLA\t\tSeason: 2nd\nAcquired:\t'92-93, trade with Pittsburgh for future considerations\nGrade:\t\tI (B)\n\nIt is way too early to tell about Ahola, who was acquired probably because the\nPenguins figured that they would lose him in the expansion draft. Ahola had\nonly played 50 games this season (I think it's actually less; the San Jose\nMercury News may be in err here), 20 of them with the Sharks. In the games he\nhas played, he appeared quite solid defensively, although he hasn't been\nspectacular, and his offense isn't anything to write home about (8 points);\nit's even possible that the trade may be for future considerations which turn\nout to be ... Peter Ahola.\n\n#24\tDOUG WILSON\t\tSeason: 16th\nAcquired:\t'91-92, trade with Chicago for RW Kerry Toporowski and\n\t\t2nd round pick in '92 entry draft\nGrade:\t\tI (B)\n\nI have often been accused of overly down on Wilson; I may have had too high\nexpectations for him, but his legs, knees, et al., are giving out.\nNevertheless, when he was playing, he exhibited a strong shooting and\nplaymaking abilities, even if he has lost a step on defense, which,\nunfortunately, he demonstrated this year as well, as at times he was slow to\ncatch the opponent forwards, and his offensive output was only good enough for\n2nd place on the team (20 points in 42 games). But next year, which may be\nWilson's last, if he can stay healthy, he can still be a contributor.\n\n#29\tDEAN KOLSTAD\t\tSeason:\t2nd\nAcquired:\t'91-92, from Minnesota in dispersal draft\nGrade:\t\tI (C-/D+)\n\nIt's probably somewhat unfair for me to judge Kolstad on just a handful of\ngames (forgetting exact number, but no more than 15), but at age 25 he's\nquickly running out of time if he wants to make it to the NHL. In those games,\nhe did not impress anyone; after generating 7 shots in the first period of\nthe first game he played, he scored just 2 points in his tenure up here with\nthe Sharks, and was even less impressive defensively, as he appeared awkward\nwith his movement and was prone to giveaways. He needs to make a leap in\nhis level of performance to have any chance of making the team.\n\n#38\tPAT MACLEOD\t\tSeason: 2nd\nAcquired:\t'91-92, from Minnesota in dispersal draft\nGrade:\t\tI (?)\n\nMacLeod was on the roster a lot longer than Kolstad, but it appears to my\nmemory that he played less than Kolstad, because the Sharks were reluctant to\nuse him, but were even more reluctant to send him to the minors, figuring that\nhe wouldn't clear waivers; in fact, he has played the past 4-5 weeks with\nKansas City, but is still technically there on a rehabilitation assignment,\na \"rehab assignment\" that will include him playing in the Turner Cup playoffs.\nSince he has played so little, I can't even give a tentative grade on him, but\nhe demonstrated last year excellent offensive skills but terrible defensive\nskills.\n\n#41\tTOM PEDERSON\t\tSeason: 1st\nAcquired:\t'91-92, from Minnesota in dispersal draft\nGrade:\t\tI (B+)\n\nCalled up in the middle of the season when the defensive corps was decimated\nby injuries, Pederson impressed many Sharks fan here on net, including yours\ntruly. He demonstrated very good offensive skills, scoring 20 points in\n43 games. However, his size (5' 9\", 165 lbs.) is of concern, and soon after\nhe began to shine offensive did teams begin to push him around physically,\non both sides of the ice, although he had appeared fearless in his approach.\nBut to be successful, he probably needs to bulk up to have a fighting chance\non surviving against some of the bigger players in the league.\n\n#45\tCLAUDIO SCREMIN\t\tSeason: 1st\nAcquired:\t'91-92, from Minnesota in dispersal draft\nGrade:\t\tI (D+/D)\n\nHe played all of ~5 games in the league this year, but was thoroughly\numimpressive, just as he was at the end of last season; again, it may be a\nsmall sample, but just as in the case of Kolstad, Scremin, at age 25, is\nquickly running out of time. He was not a contributor on either offense or\ndefense in the games he played with the Sharks. The only notable thing that\nwill go down in Scremin's entry of league stats is probably the fact that he\nwas once traded for now Capitals goaltender Don Beaupre.", "Does anyone have the addresses to any of the following hockey teams\nlocated in the Czech/Slovak Republics, Finland, Russia or Sweden?\nAny information on how to find these addresses would also be appreciated.\n\nAik\nAssat\nBrynas\nBudejovice\nChelabinsk\nDjurgarden\nDynamo\nEskulap\nEspoo\nFarjestad\nFrolunda\nHPK\nHV-71\nHifk\nIlves\nJYP HT\nJihlava\nJokerit\nJokp\nKalpa\nKhimik\nKladno\nKristall\nLada\nLeksand\nLitvinov\nLukko\nLulea\nMalmo\nMetallurg\nModo\nOlomouc\nPardubice\nRed Army\nRogle\nSkoda\nSlovan\nSoviet Wings\nSparta\nSpartak\nTPS\nTappara\nTrencin\nTuto\nVantaa\nVasteras\nYaroslavl\nZlin\n", "FULL 1993 CALDER CUP PLAYOFF SCHEDULE AND RESULTS\t\nhome team in CAPS\t\t*=if necesary\n\nFIRST ROUND\t\t\t\t\t\nSpringfield Indians vs Providence Bruins\nGm 1:\tSpringfield 3\tPROVIDENCE 2\t\nGm 2:\tSpringfield 5\tPROVIDENCE 4\nGm 3:\tProvidence 3\tSPRINGFIELD 2\nGm 4:\tProvidence 9\tSPRINGFIELD 0\t\t\nGm 5:\tSpringfield 4\tPROVIDENCE 2\nGm 6:\tSPRINGFIELD 4\tProvidence 3\n(SPRINGFIELD WINS SERIES, 4-2)\n\nCD Islanders vs Adirondack Red Wings\nGm 1:\tADIRONDACK 6\tCDI 2\nGm 2:\tADIRONDACK 5\tCDI 3\nGm 3:\tAdirondack 3\tCDI 0\nGm 4:\tAdirondack 3\tCDI 1\n(ADIRONDACK WINS SERIES, 4-0)\n\nBaltimore Skipjacks at Binghamton Rangers\nGm 1:\tBaltimore 4\tBINGHAMTON 3\t\nGm 2:\tBINGHAMTON 6\tBaltimore 2\nGm 3:\tBinghamton 8\tBALTIMORE 3\nGm 4:\tBALTIMORE 3\tBinghamton 1\t\nGm 5:\t4/26\tBaltimore at Binghamton\t\nGm 6:\t4/28\tBinghmaton at Baltimore\t\nGm 7:\t4/30\tBaltimore at Binghamton\t*\n\t\t\nUtica Devils vs Rochester Americans\nGm 1:\tUtica 3\t\tROCHESTER 2\t(OT)\nGm 2:\tROCHESTER 9\tUtica 3\nGm 3:\tRochester 6\tUTICA 4\nGm 4:\tRochester 4\tUTICA 3\t\t(OT)\nGm 5:\tROCHESTER 3\tUtica 2\n(ROCHESTER WINS SERIES, 4-1)\n\nMoncton Hawks vs St John's Maple Leafs\nGm 1:\tSt JOHN'S 4\tMoncton 2\t(at Halifax)\nGm 2:\tST JOHN'S 3\tMoncton 2\t(at Halifax)\nGm 3:\tSt John's 6\tMONCTON 5\nGm 4:\tMONCTON 5\tSt John's 4\t(OT)\nGm 5:\t4/26\tMoncton vs St John's at Halifax\t\nGm 6:\t4/28\tSt John's at Moncton\t\t*\nGm 7:\t4/30\tMoncton vs St John's at Halifax\t*\n\nCape Breton Oilers vs Fredericton Canadiens\nGm 1:\tFREDERICTON 4\tCape Breton 3\t(2OT)\nGm 2:\tCape Breton 5\tFREDERICTON 2\nGm 3:\tCAPE BRETON 3\tFredericton 0\t\nGm 4:\tCAPE BRETON 6\tFredericton 5 \t(OT)\nGm 5:\tCape Breton won", "\n\nAh yes. California. Did the San Francisco Bay area media report that\nJoe Montana is rumoured to be the leading candidate to replace fired\nSan Jose Sharks coach George Kingston? Apparently Montana is not only\ncoveted for his winning attitude, but as a playing coach he will be\nexpected to quarterback the powerplay.\n\nGood thing those walls are so soft, eh Rollie?\n\n\n-- ", ": I think Dean got hit by a pitched ball the other night... he got pinch hit for\n: and didn't play against Baltimore tonight... whats up with that? Is he hurt?\n: Please tell me he's not...\n\nHe evidentally got hit in the elbow by a Fernando pitch. His arm swelled\nfrom the elbow to the wrist (or something like that). They took X-rays\nof the arm and there is nothing damaged. He missed the last game with the\nOrioles, but he is suppose to be ready for the next game.\n\nHope this helps.", "} How does one read the betting spreads for baseball? They tend to be something\n} like 8-9 which means it must not be runs!\n\nthat spread means you bet $5 on the underdog to win $8, or $9 on the\nfavorite to win $5.", "\n\tIf the Leaf's play like they did in game one they're going to need\nthese! Watching that game _really_ hurt!\n\n\n\n\t\t\t\t\tCheers!\n\t\t\t\t\t\ti.\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------", "\n\nInteresting! One of our German friends here (Robert?) told me their forwards\nwere all Canadian-Germans. Perhaps somebody can sort this out for us?\n \n\nOK, \"this ain't North America\" and so on, but I still doubt that _any_ city\nhaving a pop. of 500,000 and below could support an NHL team. Of course,\nSwitzerland probably should be judged as one large city because of small\ndistances between cities but still. \n\n\nDusseldorf? YES, although the arena is an anachronism (an OPEN wall behind one\nof the goals - essentially an outdoor arena!). Cologne's arena only seats about\n7,000-8,000, Berlin is about 6,000 and no new facility will be built\nunless their Olympic bid is successful. Munich does have an arena. \n\n\nMalmo is big enough, but they also need a new arena...the current one has \n5,000 seats I think.\n\n\nIf we're talking about the NHL, even Helsinki would struggle to make it work.\nTurku (despite an excellent arena) and Tampere are nowhere near big enough for\nmajor league hockey.\n\n\n...Rome and the south are out of the question; this could as well be Africa\nto hockey fans. Romans were given the chance to host some WC'94 games but\nshowed no interest whatsoever. All teams in the Italian league come from Milan\nand the smaller cities in the north.\n\n\nParis had their own \"Volans Francais\"(sp) pro team a couple of years ago.\nI believe they even made it to the European Club Championship finals \ntournament one year, but eventually folded due to lower-than-hoped-for \nattendances. The remaining cities seem to be too small to support a minor \nsport like hockey.\n\n\nThe easter cities lack the money and infrastructure to support pro hockey.\n\n\nPerhaps . . . Most European teams will have to be like the Tampa Bay Lightning\nanyway; playing in a small 10,000 seat arena, backed by Japanese money, run by \nenthusiasts (Phil Esposito), heavy\nmarketing, fans that have difficulty telling what \"icing\" means... London has\nbeen mentioned, Sheffield and Birmingham also have large arenas and a new\nmega-facility (16,000 seats!) might be built in Bristol in a couple of years.\n\n\nNo facilities to speak of; their biggest arena (in Eindhoven) seats 2,500 \nfans for hockey. ", "\nMexico City, Bogota, La Paz?\n", "Robert C Hite writes\n\nI think the only Phillies in effect here are Philly Blunts. Of course, if this \nall becomes true, I'll be the first to smoke one myself.\n", "MLB Standings and Scores for Thursday, April 15th, 1993\n\t (including yesterday's games)\n\nNATIONAL WEST\t Won Lost Pct. GB Last 10 Streak Home Road\nHouston Astros 05 03 .625 -- 5-3 Won 5 00-03 05-00\nAtlanta Braves 06 04 .600 -- 6-4 Lost 1 03-03 03-01\nSan Francisco Giants 05 04 .556 0.5 5-4 Lost 1 02-01 03-03\nLos Angeles Dodgers 03 06 .333 2.5 3-6 Lost 3 00-02 03-04\nColorado Rockies 02 05 .286 2.5 2-5 Lost 3 02-03 00-02\nSan Diego Padres 02 06 .250 3.0 2-6 Lost 3 00-03 02-03\nCincinnati Reds 02 07 .222 3.5 2-7 Lost 3 01-02 01-05\n\nNATIONAL EAST\nPhiladelphia Phillies 08 01 .889 -- 8-1 Won 5 05-01 03-00\nPittsburgh Pirates 06 02 .750 1.5 6-2 Won 3 03-02 03-00\nSt. Louis Cardinals 06 02 .750 1.5 6-2 Won 2 04-02 02-00\nNew York Mets 04 03 .571 3.0 4-3 Won 2 02-03 02-00\nChicago Cubs 04 05 .444 4.0 4-5 Won 1 01-02 03-03\nMontreal Expos 03 05 .375 4.5 3-5 Lost 2 00-02 03-03\nFlorida Marlins 03 06 .333 5.0 3-6 Won 2 02-04 01-02\n\n\nAMERICAN WEST Won Lost Pct. GB Last 10 Streak Home Road\nTexas Rangers 06 02 .750 -- 6-2 Lost 1 04-02 02-00\nCalifornia Angels 05 02 .714 0.5 5-2 Won 3 03-02 02-00\nOakland Athletics 04 03 .571 1.5 4-3 Lost 1 04-02 00-01\nSeattle Mariners 04 03 .571 1.5 4-3 Won 1 03-02 01-01\nChicago White Sox 04 04 .500 2.0 4-4 Won 1 02-03 02-01\nMinnesota Twins 04 04 .500 2.0 4-4 Lost 1 01-02 03-02\nKansas City Royals 01 07 .125 5.0 1-7 Lost 2 01-05 00-02\n\nAMERICAN EAST\nBoston Red Sox 06 02 .750 -- 6-2 Won 2 02-00 04-02\nNew York Yankees 05 03 .625 1.0 5-3 Won 2 02-00 03-03\nToronto Blue Jays 04 03 .571 1.5 4-3 Lost 1 03-02 01-01\nDetroit Tigers 03 04 .429 2.5 3-4 Won 1 01-00 02-04\nCleveland Indians 03 05 .375 3.0 3-5 Lost 2 02-01 01-04\nMilwaukee Brewers 02 05 .286 3.5 2-5 Lost 4 00-02 02-03\nBaltimore Orioles 02 06 .250 4.0 2-6 Won 1 00-02 02-04\n\n\n\t\t\t YESTERDAY'S SCORES\n (IDLE teams listed in alphabetical order)\n\nNATIONAL LEAGUE\t\t\t\tAMERICAN LEAGUE\n\nHouston\t\t9\t\t\tBaltimore\t6\nMontreal\t5\t\t\tTexas\t\t5\n\nPittsburgh 11\t\t\tSeattle\t 10\nSan Diego\t7\t\t\tToronto\t\t9 (10)\n\nChicago\t\t6\t\t\tCleveland\t7\nAtlanta\t\t0\t\t\tBoston\t 12\n\nCincinnati\t2\t\t\tCalifornia 12\nPhiladelphia\t9\t\t\tMilwaukee 2\n\nNew York\t6\t\t\tKansas City\t5\nColorado\t3\t\t\tNew York\t6\n\nFlorida\t\t6\t\t\tMinnesota PPD\nSan Francisco\t4\t\t\tChicago RAIN\n\nSt. Louis\t2\t\t\tDetroit IDLE\nLos Angeles\t1 (15)\t\t\tOakland IDLE\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nJoseph Hernandez | RAMS | | /.\\ ******* _|_|_ / | LAKERS\njtchern@ocf.Berkeley.EDU | KINGS | |__ | | DODGERS _|_|_ | | RAIDERS\njtcent@soda.Berkeley.EDU | ANGELS |____||_|_| ******* | | |___| CLIPPERS", "\n\nIt is no matter what you call the teams, Jokerit and TPS, or Helsinki Tornado\nand Turku Typhoon, the best palyers in Finland would eventually end up in\nthose teams anyway, if they were in the \"big\" league. \n\n", "\n\nAh, but the illusion in football is that there is always lots of action and\na sense of urgency because of the game clock (not all the time, but it happens\nwhen there's less than 5 minutes to go quite often). This sense creates\ndrama, even when there may not necessarily be any and that holds a viewer's\nattention. In baseball, only 3 players are involved in the action for about\n(here comes a wild guess) 70% of the time? And they're just playing a\nsophisticated game of catch/hold-the-ball/step-out-of-the-box/adjust-chains/\ntouch-self-in-interesting-locations. There's a lot of \"dead time\" with the\nplayers warming up between innings or the manager visiting the pitcher at the\nmound or the manager removing the pitcher and bringing in a relief pitcher\nwho then takes (8? 10?) pitches or Helen Dell playing the organ (Dodger fans\nwill appreciate that one). To the non baseball junkie this is boring.\nAt any rate, I'm not putting baseball down for this - I've been an avid\nfan since I can remember - it's just that watching a baseball game on\nT.V. at home can be tedious for the non baseball junkie. That's what Major\nLeague Baseball and the networks are trying to address when they talk of\nshortening the game. It's because of T.V. not because \"football has more\naction than baseball\".\n", "No, he's not nuts, WIP is second to none THE sports station. They\ndon't have Tony Bruno working ESPN radio and Al Morganti doing Friday\nNight Hockey because they suck. I live in Richmond Va, but I visit\nPhila often, and on the way I get WTEM Washington) and WIP. I hear\nthe FAN at night wherever I go (the signal used to be WNBC, when they\nplayed golden oldies) because you can't avoid it. Of those three,\nWIP has the best hosts hands down. Chuck Cooperstein isn't a homer,\nand neither is Jody Mac. WTEM is too generic to be placed in the\ncatergory. In fact if you have heard WTEM and the FAN you notice the\ntheme music is identical...same ownership?? I think so! WIP is\ntotally original. Their hosts actually have a personality (this is a\nknock at TEM (the TEAM) not the FAN because Mike and the Mad Dog and\nSommers are good) I mean comparing the morning guys in Philadelphia\nto the ones in Washington is a total joke. Anyway, I like the FAN\nand WIP, but I think the edge goes to 'IP. \n\nWhen I get back from Philly, I go into withdraw cause Richmond has\nnada except the national sports line (and those guys are totally\nclueless) \nI was really mad when WCAU was cancelled because they had Steve\nFredericks doing sports phone after the Phillies games. (WCAU is\nanother strong station, now it's an oldies station, but they still\nhave the Phillies) I started listening to the FAN because I heard he\nwent there. I finally heard him last summer and he wasn't the same\nguy. Those NY fans got to him. I was glad to hear him back in\nPhilly when I went to see a few Eagles games. \n\n\nI will admit, I am die hard EAGLES fan and WIP is basically an\nEagles station 365 days a year. BUT, I bet you the Phillies are in\ncontrol right now.\n\n\nAbout the knock on G. Cobb, I like him. He knows the Eagles like a\nbook. I remember the weekend before they went to play San Fran,\n(when everyone thought the Eagles would be blown away) Cobb said that\nthe Eagles usually play their best when no one believe they can win.\nWell they were inches shy of pulling the victory. ", "The O's just lost to the Rangers a few minutes ago I was not too happy about\nthe pitching of Rick Sutcliffe (6 runs in 6 innings, 5 in the 3?) This puts\nme in remembering the 1990 O's season. After '89 we didn't do much over\nwinter and we wound up in 5th. Now I know that Mussina, McDonald, and Rhodes\nare better pitching prospects than Ballard and Milacki but are any other\nOriole fans scared out there?\n\nAdmiral Steve C. Liu", "Sorry Mike! What defensemen would the Wings be willing to give up for Beezer?", "BLUES PLAYOFF SCORING THROUGH END OF NORRIS SEMIFINALS \n------------------------------------------------------\n\nPS # NAME GP G A Pts. +/- PIM PP SH GW EN\n-- -- ---- -- -- -- ---- --- --- -- -- -- --\nRW 16 Brett Hull 4 5 3 8 +2 0 4 0 2 0\n C 15 Craig Janney 4 2 4 6 +1 0 1 0 2 0\n D 21 Jeff Brown 4 1 5 6 +1 4 0 0 0 0\nLW 19 Brendan Shanahan 4 2 3 5 0 6 2 0 0 0 \n C 7 Nelson Emerson 4 1 2 3 +1 2 0 0 0 0\nRW 9 *Denny Felsner 4 1 1 2 +2 2 0 0 0 0 \nLW 10 Dave Lowry 4 1 0 1 +2 2 0 1 0 0\nLW 17 Basil McRae 4 0 1 1 +1 2 0 0 0 0\nLW 14 Kevin Miller 4 0 1 1 -1 2 0 0 0 0\nRW 23 Rich Sutter 4 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0\n C 28 Bob Bassen 4 0 0 0 -1 6 0 0 0 0\nLW 36 *Philippe Bozon 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0\n C 18 Ron Wilson 4 0 0 0 -2 4 0 0 0 0\n D 5 Garth Butcher 4 0 0 0 +1 2 0 0 0 0\n D 33 Stephane Quintal 4 0 0 0 +1 0 0 0 0 0\n D 44 *Bret Hedican 4 0 0 0 0 8 0 0 0 0\n D 34 Murray Baron 4 0 0 0 -1 8 0 0 0 0\n D 4 Rick Zombo 4 0 0 0 -1 10 0 0 0 0\n G 31 Curtis Joseph 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0\n D 6 Doug Crossman 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0\n C 22 Ron Sutter 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0\nRW 38 *Igor Korolev 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0\nRW 39 Kelly Chase 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0\n D 2 Curt Giles 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0\n G 29 *Guy Hebert 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0\n\n* Rookie\n\nGOALTENDING\n-----------\n GP Min. GA Avg. W L EN SO SA SAVE%\n31 Curtis Joseph 4 251 6 1.43 4 0 0 2 140 .957 \n29 *Guy Hebert 0 00 0 0.00 0 0 0 0 00 --- \n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\n Team Totals 4 251 6 1.43 4 0 0 2 140 .957 \n\nSO -- Shutouts ; SA -- Shots Against.\n\nGoals 13 6 \n1st Period 4 1 \n2nd Period 3 4 \n3rd Period 5 1 \nOvertime 1 0 \nPower-play goals 7/29 1/24 \nShort-handed goals 1 0 \nEmpty-net goals 0 0 \nShots 97 140 ", "I hear Daigle will eb the first pick next year. What is the word on Kariya???\nAnybody ever seen him play on TV???? Is he also entering the draft???\n", "\nChris Chelios was Montreal's co-captain with Guy Carbonneau when he was traded to Chicago for Denis Savard, and Peter Stastny was captain of the Quebec Nordiques when he was traded to New-Jersey. Also Mark Messier was captain of the Edmonton Oilers when he was traded to New-York. How about Dale Hawerchuk with Winnipeg when he was traded to Buffalo, was he captain too ? I think so. I should not forget Wayne (you know who) when he was traded to L.A. he was captain. Didn't they strip Wendel Clark of his capta\n\n\n\nincy in Toronto ?\n\nJust some updates and thoughts.\n\nCheer...\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDaniel Piche (LMC/U/DET - Design)\nEricsson Communications Inc.\n8400 Decarie Blvd, 1rd floor\nTown of Mont Royal, Quebec. H4P 2N2\n(514)-738-8300 ext. 2178. \nE-mail: LMCDAPI@LMC.ERICSSON.SE\nMEMOid: LMC.LMCDAPI\n\nCHEERS.....", "Am I the only person who thinks the Reds sleeveless uniforms are\nugly? Yet another reason why they won't win the NL West! ;)\n\n\n-------------------------------------------------------\nEric Roush\t\tfierkelab@\tbchm.biochem.duke.edu\n\"I am a Marxist, of the Groucho sort\"\nGrafitti, Paris, 1968\n\nTANSTAAFL! (although the Internet comes close.)", "\n\n\nI'm from Dallas, and you have alot of nerve saying that WFAN has a bunch of \nHoodlum Mets fans. During the football season, the local cowboy station here \nhad the WIP on several times for simultanious broadcasts. I have never heard \na bigger bunch of low intellect, bed wetting ,obnoxious, woofing, cranial \ndeformed, assholes in my entire life! The IQ of the average eagles fan must \nbe in the 10-15 range at best, and they have been known to be big droolers.\n\n(Please no flames) ... ;-)\n", "\nEven better. Make up pete conrad in a Martian Suit,\nand have him get ou;t and throw a football\nto the refs.\n", "It was a classy move. But it looks like ESPN is going to devote most of\nthe coverage to the Pens. On Tuesday night, they continued to broadcast\nthe Pen-Devil game even though Pittsburgh had the game well in control.\nGranted they did show some \"bonus\" coverage of the Caps and Isles but\nthey cut away from the close game, which went into double ot, to update\nus on the fifth goal of the rout.\nThursday was a good game even if it was the second straight game between\nthe pens and devils. IMHO they should program some variety into the\ntelecasts.(Yes I know the game shown on saturday is between the B's and\nSabres, probably throwing a bone to us Bruin fans.)\nAnd what about the Cambell conference? I'd like to see a game in the\nNorris or Smythe. Why not have back to back nights of National\nHockey Night?\n\nJust a thought.", "\nWell, maybe it will be. Banks is a 24 year-old prospect who \"hasn't \nmatured as quickly as they would have liked. Mahomes is a 22 year-old \nwho is very highly touted. Tapani and Erickson are also young, and \nhave looked very good this spring. The last spot was between Jim \nDeshaies, formerly of Houston and S.D. and Mike Trombley. Deshaies \nhasn't looked very good this spring, so I believe that the spot has \ngone to Trombley, although they hadn't wanted 3 starters this unproven. \nI personally believe very highly in Mahomes and Trombley.\n\n\nWell, Scott Leius is the shortstop. He played mostly 3B last year, but \nwas a SS in the minors, and moved back after Gagne left to K.C. 3B is \nsplit (maybe) between Pagliarulo, who has had a great spring, and Terry \nJorgenson, a good looking kid who has languished in Portland for 3 \nyears. I'm not sure how the time will be divided, but they seem to be \nhappy with what they have here. I like Jorgenson, but I fear they \nmight give too much time to Pags.\n \n\nSorry, can't help you here.", "\n: What are the Leafs to do? I am a Leaf supporter and\n: I say the Leafs are going down in four unless there\n: is nothing short of a miracle or a stroke of genenius hits\n\nRoot for another team. ;-)\n\n: Andreychuck and Borchevsky have no business playing against \n: the Wings. They are too small. The key to any Leafs success\n: will have to be Clark. He is the only centre who can have\n..\nAndreychuk, is NOT small, slow and sloth-like, maybe, but he is\nabout 6'4\" and that is not what I would consider as small.\n\nAs an aside, The big AndreyCHUNK as I call him has been known to\ndisappear come playoff time. This was one of his main problems when\nplaying for Buffalo.\n\n: GO LEAFS !!!\nGO SABRES !!!\n\n\n\n", "Tim Belcher pitched a dandy three-hit shut-out tonight as Cincinnati won \ntheir second straight 5-0. Pittsburgh Lefty Randy Tomlin was hit early and \noften by the heavily right-unbalanced Reds line-up, which managed some\nrecently rare power with their bats.\n\nBelcher (1-1) was solid throughout and in fact seemed to get stronger as the\ngame progressed. Early on he had several three-ball counts, but even those\nwere few and far between later on as he allowed only one base-on-balls while\nstriking out nine. In a post game interview he said his change-up was working\nfor him--I should say so: all nine of his strikeouts were apparently on \nbreaking balls.\n\nTomlin (0-1), on the other hand was in trouble early, giving up a second-pitch\ndouble to lead-off batter Bip Roberts. Bobby Kelly followed with a single and \nBarry Larkin scored Roberts with a sharp single to right. The big guys\n(Mitchell, Sabo, Milligan) were unable to get anything after that--in fact\nthey all struck out--but Kelly managed a score anyway due to a double-steal\nand a Tomlin wild pitch.\n\nIn fact, it appeared that Tomlin was going to recover nicely from his shaky\nstart-- he retired 9 of the next 11 batters to get to the fourth behind only\n2-0. Randy Milligan, though, had different ideas as his line-shot was\npoorly played by Orlando Merced and turned into a triple. Milligan would \nlater score on Reggie Sanders' sacrifice fly, giving Cinci the 3-0 lead \nafter 4.\n\nThe fifth inning spelled loss for Tomlin when Roberts led off with his second\ndouble of the game, and one batter later Larkin smacked a double down the \nleft field line, chasing Tomlin. Barry later would score the final run on\nTom Prince's two-base passed ball. \n\nThe Pirates managed their only threat of the day in the bottom half of the\nfifth when Merced and Kevin Young hit back-to-back singles (the second \nbeing of the \"bunt\" variety), but Carlos Garcia struck out, Prince fit a \nfoul fly, and pinch-hitter Lonnie Smith \"K'd\" to end any Pittsburgh hope.\n\nPittsburgh pitchers backed Tomlin up well, though: relievers Blas Minor,\nMoeller (sp?), and Nagel gave up only two hits in their four-plus innings\nwork.\n\nBarry Larkin left the game in the seventh when the grounder he (mis)played \nbruised his right thumb. He was taken to the hospital for \"precautionary\nX-rays\". Let's hope he's OK.\n\nCincinnati is now 4-9, still the worst record in the majors, but with the\ntwo wins they may be looking at moving out of the cellar!\nPittsburgh is now 7-6.\n\n*********REDS FANS***************************\nIf you would like to receive this report on a \nsemi-daily basis (as often as I write it), \nsend me your e-mail address and I'll put you \non the list. If someone has a Reds mailing \nlist, please forward it to me and I'll put\neveryone on the list!!\n*********************************************\n\n\nCINCINNATI REDS\n\t\t\tAB\tR\tH\t\tK\tBB\tLO\n-----------------------------------------------|---------------------------\nRoberts 2b\t\t4\t2\t2\t\t1\t0\t1\nKelly cf\t\t4\t1\t1\t\t0\t0\t0\nLarkin ss\t\t3\t1\t3\t\t0\t0\t0\n Branson ss\t\t0\t0\t0 \t\t0\t0\t0\nMitchell lf\t\t4\t0\t1\t\t1\t0\t0\t\n Hernandez lf\t\t0\t0\t0\t\t0\t0\t0\nSabo 3b\t\t\t4\t0\t0\t\t1\t0\t1\nMilligan 1b\t\t4\t1\t1\t\t2\t0\t1\nSanders rf\t\t3\t0\t0\t\t2\t0\t0\nOliver c\t\t4\t0\t2\t\t2\t0\t0\nBelcher p\t\t4\t0\t0\t\t2\t0\t1\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTotals\t\t\t34\t5\t10\t\t11\t0\t4\n\n\n3b Milligan (off Tomlin, leading off fourth, scored)\n2b Roberts (off Tomlin, leading off first, scored)\n Roberts (off Tomlin, leading off fifth, scored)\n Larkin (off Tomlin, in fifth, one out, runner on second, RBI, scored)\nSF Sanders\nRBI Larkin 2, Sanders\nSB Kelly, Larkin\nGDP Sabo\n\n\n\nPITTSBURGH PIRATES\n\t\t\tAB\tR\tH\t\tK\tBB\tLO\n-----------------------------------------------|---------------------------\nMartin lf\t\t4\t0\t0\t\t0\t0\t1\nBell ss \t\t4\t0\t0\t\t1\t0\t0\nVan Slyke cf\t\t4\t0\t0\t\t0\t0\t0\nKing 3b\t\t\t3\t0\t0\t\t2\t1\t0\nMerced rf\t\t3\t0\t1\t\t1\t0\t0\nYoung 1b\t\t2\t0\t1\t\t1\t0\t0\nGarcia 2b\t\t3\t0\t0\t\t2\t0\t1\nPrince c\t\t3\t0\t1\t\t0\t0\t0\nTomlin p\t\t1\t0\t0\t\t0\t0\t0\n Minor p\t\t0\t0\t0\t\t0\t0\t0\n Smith ph \t\t1\t0\t0\t\t1\t0\t2\n Moeller p\t\t0\t0\t0 \t\t0\t0\t0\n Waynor ph\t\t1\t0\t0\t\t1\t0\t0\n Nagel p\t\t0\t0\t0\t\t0\t0\t0\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\t\t\t29\t0\t3\t\t9\t1\t4\n\n\nGDP Merced\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\nCincinnati\t2 0 0 1 2 0 0 0 0 ----- 5 11 1\nPittsburgh\t0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 ----- 0 3 0\n\n\n\nPitching\n\n\t\t\tIP\tR\tER\tH\tK\tBB\nCincinnati\t\n\nBelcher (W 1-1)\t\t9\t0\t0\t3\t9\t1\n\nCG (1), SO (1)\n\n$$$LINE OF THE DAY!!!$$$\n\nE- Larkin\n\nPittsburgh\n\nTomlin (L 0-1)\t\t4 1/3\t5\t5\t9\t6\t0\nMinor\t\t\t2/3\t0\t0\t1\t0\t0\nMoeller\t\t\t2\t0\t0\t0\t3\t0\nNagel \t\t\t1\t0\t0\t1\t2\t0\n\nWP- Tomlin\nPB- Prince\n\n\nUmps Rippley/Hallion/Quick/Crawford\n\nAtt-9,077\nT-2:14\n\n\nComing up:\nThe Reds play two more in Pitts, then go to Chicago for a weekend series.\nThe weather doesn't look good, though-- don't be surprised if one or more\ngames get rained out.\n\nTomorrow, 7:35, Jose Rijo vs. Steve Cook, then Smiley vs. Wakefield on Thursday.", "I heard a story on the local sports news broadcast in Edmonton.\nOiler owner Peter Pocklington will be holding a press conference\nnext week. While the exact details are not known, it is believed\nto concern the Oiler's future.\n\nRumour has it that Pocklington signed a tentative lease arrangement\nwith Copps Collesium in Hamilton. During the press conference,\nPocklington may announce the deal. It is quite possible that\nthe deal may simply be a way to force Edmonton Northlands to\nrenegotiate the Oiler lease on the stadium.\n\nNorthlands has offered to buy the Oilers for $65 million earlier,\nbut the offer was rejected immediately by Pocklington.", "\nESPN has been trying various things to get away from the\nfollow-the-puck concept of televising hockey games. One of the main\nproblems with hockey is that it is very difficult to show everything\nthat is going on -- more happens away from the puck than in any other\nsport except maybe football and they can do iso's on football players\nto be shown between plays.\n\nThe problem of course is that sometimes you get something worthwhile,\nother times you get burned.", "Believe it or not, we DO have phone books, but the current information does\nnot include an area code for Edmonton Alberta.\n\nI would not be so hostile towards others for asking simple questions...\n\n\"I would rather appear stupid than open my moutha nd remove all doubt.\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t-Mark Twain\n\n-- \n\t\"If you assult someone you get 5 years--In hockey, 5 minutes.\n\t\t\tIs this a great sport or what?!\"", "\nGee, they lost to St. Louis twice this year. Maybe you should have your\neyes checked. 8^)\n\n\nGo Blues....the Rodney Dangerfield team....They get no respect....except\nin Chicago mabee...", "\nActually, Messier was invited, but declined due to nagging injuries...\nKeenan and Messier have always gotten along...Keenan dumped Steve\nYzerman from the last Canada Cup team, even though Yzerman had\nendured the training camp, when Messier who had missed essentially the\nentire camp recovering from injuries became available at the\nlast moment.", "\n\n Would you say the same thing about the Dodgers in '65 or '66? True,\nCone is probably as good as Drysdale, and they have no Koufax, but still,\nthese teams were winning with home run leaders who had very bad totals, with\nlots of low-scoring games, etc. And they didn't use relievers, whereas\nJeff Montgomery is having a super season for them.\n That being said, I still picked them 5th or so, but I think a superb\npitching team can win if they have enough hitting. There's more of a\nchance of that, I think, than of a team with tremendous hitting but no\npitching. At least, to me.\n I wonder, though - which one do you people think would do better - a team\nwith Johnson, Koufax in his prime, Seaver, Carlton, and Young, in no real\norder, as the starters, with Sutter, Fingers, and Lyle in the bullpen, but\nwith a puny offense (assuming good defense, like Mazeroski, Maranville, etc.)\nOr a team with poor pitching, but with an offense of Cobb, Carew, Ruth, Gehrig,\nMays, Schmidt, Wagner, and Bench - again,you pick the order.\n I would postulate that the pitching one would be several games better by\nseasons' end. Even the best hitters can succeed only 2/5 of the time in\ntheir best years, but a great pitcher can throw lots of shutouts - taking all\nthe players in their prime, they might throw 50 shutouts in a year. And all\nthe offense would have to do is get 1 run across.\n I wonder if someone with Stratomatic or something could plug such all-\ntime teams into a regular season, have it played, and report the results\nI would love to see that.", "Curtis Joseph and Ray LeBlanc have made some big moves in the\npoll recently. Hextall has shown some strong movement as well. Kirk\nMcLean and Tom Barrasso (I can't see why) have been added to the list\nrecently. Keep sending in those votes.\n\nCurrent votes for favorite goalie masks (3pts - 1st, 2pts - 2nd, 1pt - 3rd)\n\nPlayer Team Pts Votes\n--------------------------------------------------------------\n1. Ed Belfour Chicago 32 15\n Curtis Joseph St. Louis 32 13 \n3. Andy Moog Boston 30 13\n4. Brian Hayward San Jose 26 10 \n5. Ron Hextall Quebec 16 8\n6. Grant Fuhr Buffalo 12 5 \n7. Gerry Cheevers Boston (retired) 11 6 \n8. John Vanbeisbrouck NY Rangers 10 4\n9. Ray LeBlanc USA Olympic 7 3\n10. Mike Richter NY Rangers 6 3\n11. Manon Rheaume Atlanta (IHL) 5 2\n12. Don Beaupre Washington 4 2\n Ken Dryden Montreal (retired) 4 2\n--------------------------------------------------------------\nOthers receiving less than 4pts: Mike Vernon (Cal), Clint\n Malarchuk (Buf/SD,IHL), Tommy Soderstrom (Phil), Tom Barrasso (Pit),\n Artus Irbe (SJ), Tim Cheveldae (Det), Sean Burke (NJ),\n Rick Wamsley (Tor,ret), Jon Casey (Minn), Bob Essensa (Win),\n Glenn Healy (NYI), Tony Espo (Chi), Gilles Gratton (Bos),\n Rod Stauber (LA), Gump Worsley (Mtl/NYR), Pat Jablonski (TB),\n Grant Fuhr (Tor), Felix Potvin (Tor), Stephane Beauregard (Win),\n Mark Fitzpatrick (NYI), Chico Resch (NYI), Kirk McLean (Van)\n", "\nEducate yourself before you rip on this years manager of the year.\nLankford injured himself in a previous game and Torre was resting\nhim.\n\nAs far as the Whitten/Gilkey controversy. Whitten adds some more\nneeded power, and if Jordan continues to hit the way he has been,\nGilkey will find himself in the starting lineup soon enough.\n\nSam", "\nJ<--> \nJ<--> Yahooooooooooooooooooooo!\nJ<--> \nJ<--> What a game, we finally beat those diques...and in O.T.!\nJ<--> The Habs dominated this game and especially in O.T..\n\nYou realize that we dominated game 1 also and should be ahead in this \nseries 2 - 1?\n\nJ<--> Glorieux were plagued by bad luck; the puck wouldn't bounce their\nJ<--> way. But in O.T. they got their lucky break, the winning goal\nJ<--> went off Gusarov's skate. Thank you Lord!!!!!!\n\nAnd it's about time! We hit 2 posts in this overtime and 1 post in \ngame 1's overtime. Let's hope that **we** start getting some luck for \na change.\n\nHe played well in this game but Roy's inconsistency still makes me \nnervous. Otherwise, I'd say we're going to win this series, no sweat. \nIt's all up to Patrick Roy to provide **consistent** goaltending.\n\nJ<--> And those damn Bruins lost in O.T., their down 3-0. Congratulations\nJ<--> Buffalo!!\nJ<--> \nJ<--> Life doesn't get better than this!!!!!!!!!\n\nAgreed. \n\n- Jack\n\n * Tagline Bad or Missing NO CARRIER", "I am interested in uncovering statistics on Boston Red Sox players from\nMarch 1992 - present. I want to look at changes in batting average, hits,\nmulti-hit games, runs, stolen bases, and on base % during\nevery game. Where can\nI find this information? Do any sports magazines log this info or do I\nhave to go directly to the ball club?\nThanks for the info. Kip\n", "\n\nI didn't mean to offend or anything, I'm just quoting Stanky himself on\nthe subject. I remember one time last year he was being interviewed by\nESPN, and the interviewer (can't remember who), asked Stanky if he was\nJewish because he (the interviewer) was Jewish and wanted to see more\nJewish ballplayers. To which Stanky replied, \"I'm Polish, not Jewish.\"\n\nSo maybe that wasn't the most PC thing for Stanky to say, and maybe I was\na little naive when I posted it. I think we should just devote this\nsubject to finding actual Jewish ballplayers (I myself am Jewish and the\nonly ones I ever knew until now were Koufax, Greenberg, and Blomberg).", ": \n\n[ a whole lot of completely ignorant stuff about Pitt. ]\n\nGive this guy a drug test, and some Ridalin whale you are at it.", "so all us hockey/automobile racing fans all know exactly where we stand\n\tESPN delays the martinsville race by a day for the NFL draft\n\tESPN shows baseball instead of the overtime of a NHL playoff game\n\n\tgimme a break, guys\n\n=> >>Does anyone know why this race is tape delay? Especially until Monday???\n=> >Is this the weekend for the NFL draft?\n=> >If so, postponing the race for a day is\n=> >a real slap in the face for racing fans.\n=> I'm afraid you're right (as usual). As I recall they've been doing this\n=> ever since they started covering the draft live. I wish they could work\n=> out some kind of a deal with somebody else such as TNN to get the race\n=> on live, but I guess ESPN isn't much into sharing. It also clarifies\n=> where auto racing stands on their priority list (as if we didn't already\n=> know ;-)\n-- ", "Tickets midweek are now down to $34. They will be $25 starting last\nweek in April, or maybe first week in May. By the way, the current\nconditions (was there Apr 12-13) are great for spring skiing, with\nexcellent coverage, most stuff open, and no lift lines.", "\nHeh... Try the rec.autos.sport FAQ. They are always calling ESPN to complain.\nI'm sure you could find the number for ABC there too, as many west-coast \nviewers were compaining about how something as boring as hockey cut into\nthe Long Beach GP. =)\n\n\nWere you (and several of the other people here it seems) asleep the day\n\"contracts\" were explained? ASPN has a piece of paper saying it MUST\nshow that baseball game if it happens. Many businesses payedd money to\nhave their commercials run during a baseball game. This is a business,\nnot your own personal video servant.\n\n\nMaybe you should put that anger into something positive. For example, I saw\nads for the new Dodge both on the ESPN and KBL broadcasts. Why not write to\nDodge saying that \"thanks to the ads run during the STANLEY CUP PLAYOFFS, \nyou will now concider their products in the future. They love to hear stuff\nlike that and in the future will be more willing to buy commercial time\nfor hockey games, giving ESPN (and other networks) more incentive to carry\ngames (just one example)\n\nCome on people, as great as we think it is, Hockey does not leapfrog the\n\"big three\" overight.", "\nI am trying to think how to respond to this without involving personal feeling\nor perceptions and I can not without having stats to back up my points.\nHowever, I think you approached this the wrong way. I believe all of the\npeople mentioned here deserve the hall of fame more than Dave Kingman does. I\nfeel they were all much better players. I am not saying I fell they deserve to\ngo but that they would deserve it more. \n\nIMHO \nDave Kingman - definately not. They guy only had a couple of years were he\ncould hit with atleast a respectable averag. The rest of his career I do not\nthink he was very feared by pitchers. I also do not think he did a lot for the\ngame. I mean really I am a Met fan - he was a Met for part of his career and I\nstill would not back him for the Hall of Fame.\n\nDave Winfield - I think so. He is feared by pitchers, he has had several\nseason where he hit for a respectable average and his production numbers are\n(in my opinion - without stats) better than Kingman's (probably by quite a\nbit). I also perceive him to be a leader, maybe not as much as some other\npeople but none the less a leader. I think he has made substantial\ncontributions to the game of baseball and to society. Examples of this are\nsome of the charitable things he has done (I know some of this from when he\nwas with the Yankees). I think he the type of player that kids can look up to\nand while this is definately not the only criteria for the Hall of Fame I\nthink it deserves some consideration.\n\nLee Smith - Maybe, I would have to see his stats again but he definately would\ndeserve to go before the likes of Kingman.\n\nDarrell Evans - No.\n\nEddie Murray - Maybe, He has had a very good career, he is a leader (although\na silent one), he is a good role model. Are the stats good enough? I am not\nsure - but I would once again believe they are much better than Kingman's both\nthe average as well as the power numbers (but not as good as Winfield's). Just\nthink, Eddie did not have as much publicity for most of his great years.\n\nJeff Reardon - My guess is no, but it kind of depends on his numbers. Off the\ntop of my head I would take Lee Smith first.\n\n\nWell, I strongly disagree here. Both of these guys deserve it for sure. I\ntalked about leadership above, both of these guys are leaders and have been\ninstumental in leading their teams to the post season. Robin does have very\ngood offensive numbers both average and power and Ozzie has okay numbers\noffensively. The difference with Ozzie is that if you gave him a home run for\nevery run he saved by making an incredible play at shortstop - he would have\nshattered Aaron's home run mark by now. How many of those great plays saved\ngames? How many of those great plays motivated his team to rally and win a\ngame? While I believe both of these guys have numbers, baseball is about more\nthan numbers (or at least winning at baseball is about more than numbers).\nBoth of these guys are proven stars and belong in the Hall of Fame. As does\nGeorge Brett who also belongs in this class of player.\n\n\nSteve Garvey - I am not sure, probably not but I guess I could see someone\nmaking a case for him. \n\nJack Morris - Once again not my first choice but I can see why someone might\nbring up his name.\n\nKirby Puckett - Probably. The only reason I do not say definately is he still\nhas time left in his career. If he continues doing what he has been then my\nprobably will turn into a definately.\n\nNolan Ryan - Is there really any doubt? I think I heard something about him\nhaving some 53 records (maybe they were not all good - I don't know I did not\nhear any of them just the number). He has the numbers, he has the\ncontributions to the game and community and he is a great role model. I would\nnot say that he is the best pitcher to ever pitch the game (probably not even\ntop 20) but he would be the first pitcher I would put in the Hall of Fame\nbecause of his accomplishments (no-hitters, strikeouts, respectable numbers -\neven with some weaker teams) you can go on and on. I really hope he gets ALL\nthe possible votes.\n\nSo in summing up I have 3 groups, those that belong, those that probably do\nbut I am not sure and those that I lean towards saying don't belong at least\nnot without my seeing stats and possibly hearing reasons why they should go.\n\nYes - Winfield, Yount, Brett(not in your mail), O. Smith, Puckett and Ryan\nMaybe - Murray and L. Smith\nNo - Reardon, Garvey, Morris, Evans and definately Kingman\n\nAs I said I do not have the stats around so I do not have numbers to back this\nup - these are entirely my opinions based on my perceptions.", "\n\n\n\n\nExactly my point. If you'd watch games more closely, you'd see a lot \nof goons going after him. Ulf is one of the main reasons why less physical \nplayers for Pgh are left alone. Ulf plays rough hockey, but only when \nother players are putting the rush on Mario or Jagr. If you want to say anyone\non the Penguins is a cheap shot or a goon, say it's Jennings or Caufield. Don'tslander a good defenseman because your favorite players can't beat the Pens\neven when they take dives (like Gartner) to try for the cheap penalties.\n\n\nHey, that's fine! If a player does something stupid, he should be penalized\nincluding Ulf. Or Mario (you're not likely to see that happen) or anyone else for that matter. It's pointless to say any one person is a cheap-shot goon, because you'll see EVERYONE take a cheap shot now and then, especially if you'resomeone who is shadowed as much as Ulf is.\n\n\n\n", "The Red Sox usually have 2 catchers. I don't think they have a backup now,\nbut they used to use Randy Kutcher as a backup catcher, as well as a middle\ninfielder and outfielder. You don't need a good 3rd catcher, just a\ncompetent one, so you can afford to lose a little catching ability and pick\na player who can be of use elsewhere on the field.\n\n\n", "\nThey _finally_ started going to the net! See what happens when you \ncreate some traffic? Muller deserves full marks (what a player!),\nand Damphousse finally started skating. Roy (thankyouthankyouthankyou)\nwas excellent. Did you see that third period save on Young? And the \ndefense was taking out Quebec players in the zone.\n\nAnybody else wonder if Hextall will feel like a dweeb when he finds \nout that the winning goal went in off his own D-man's skate? Whatta\nsuck. Although he _is_ playing really well.\n\n\nSure it does. On Sunday when the B's are golfing and the Habs are tied\n2-2 you'll see what I mean! :-) :-)\n\n", "\n\n\n\nSaku isn't that small any longer I guess I heard he is 177cm tall at the\nmoment and will still grow 6-8cm.", "un, you better add at least another plus to the Pederson\nfor Neely trade, the Bruins also received a number 1 round\ndraft pick, didn't play great this year but Wesley's still a\ndecent defenseman.... And the Bruins got Pederson back eventually\nanyway.....\n\n Pat Ellis\n\n\nP.S. GO BRUINS GO UMAINE BLACK BEARS 42-1-2 NUMBER 1......\n\n HOCKEY EAST REGULARS SEASON CHAMPIONS.....\n HOCKEY EAST TOURNAMENT CHAMPIONS>......\n PAUL KARIYA, HOBEY BAKER AWARD WINNER.......\n NCAA DIV. 1 HOCKEY TOURNAMENT CHAMPIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!\n", "Disclaimer -- This is for fun.\n\nIn my computerized baseball game, I keep track of a category called\n\"stolen hits\", defined as a play made that \"an average fielder would not\nmake with average effort.\" Using the 1992 Defensive Averages posted\nby Sherri Nichols (Thanks Sherri!), I've figured out some defensive stats\nfor the centerfielders. Hits Stolen have been redefined as \"Plays Juan\nGonzalez would not have made.\"\n\nOK, I realize that's unfair. Juan's probably the victim of pitching staff,\nfluke shots, and a monster park factor. But let's put it this way: If we\nreplaced every centerfielder in the league with someone with Kevin's 55.4% out\nmaking ability, how many extra hits would go by?\n\nTo try and correlate it to reality a little more, I've calculated Net\nHits Stolen, based on the number of outs made compared to what a league\naverage fielder would make. By the same method I've calculated Net Extra \nBases (doubles and triples let by).\n\nFinally, I throw all this into a a formula I call Defensive Contribution, or\nDCON :->. Basically, it represents the defensive contribution of a player.\nI add this number to OPS to get DOPS (Defense + Onbase Plus Slug), which\nshould represent the player's total contribution to the team. So don't\ntake it too seriously. The formula for DCON appears at the end of this\narticle.\n\nThe short version -- definition of terms\nHS -- Hits Stolen -- Extra outs compared to Kurt Stillwell\nNHS -- Net Hits Stolen -- Extra outs compared to average fielder\nNDP -- Net Double Plays -- Extra double plays turned compared to avg fielder\nNEB -- Net Extra Bases -- Extra bases prevented compared to avg. fielder\nDCON -- Defensive Contribution -- bases and hits prevented, as a rate.\nDOPS -- DCON + OPS -- quick & dirty measure of player's total contribution.\n\nNational League\n\nName HS NHS NEB DCON DOPS\nNixon, O. 34 12 15 .083 .777\nGrissom, M. 48 18 12 .072 .812\nJackson, D. 46 13 20 .060 .735\nLewis, D. 25 8 -6 .029 .596\nDykstra, L. 25 5 -5 .013 .794\nDascenzo, D. 10 -5 10 .001 .616\nFinley, S. 32 -2 2 -.003 .759\nLankford, R. 39 4 -12 -.007 .844\nMartinez, D. 21 5 -16 -.017 .660\nVanSlyke, A. 30 -4 -17 -.040 .846\nSanders, R. 7 -10 -4 -.059 .759\nButler, B. 1 -29 5 -.088 .716\nJohnson, H. 3 -12 -19 -.118 .548\n\nOrdered by DOPS\n\n.846 VanSlyke\n.844 Lankford\n.812 Grissom\n.794 Dykstra\n.777 Nixon\n.759 Finley\n.759 Sanders\n.735 Jackson\n.730 *NL Average*\n.716 Butler\n.660 Martinez\n.616 Dascenzo\n.596 Lewis\n.548 Johnson\n\nAmerican League\n---------------\n\nName HS NHS NEB DCON DOPS\nLofton, K. 57 32 17 .220 .947\nWilson, W. 47 26 0 .125 .787\nWhite, D. 52 25 28 .119 .812\nFelix, J. 22 0 32 .063 .713\nDevereaux, M. 43 16 0 .047 .832\nMcRae, H. 38 11 -1 .038 .631\nYount, R. 31 8 -3 .022 .737\nKelly, R. 13 -6 -3 -.025 .681\nJohnson, L. 23 -5 -13 -.040 .641\nGriffey, K. 15 -9 -12 -.052 .844\nPuckett, K. 13 -13 -15 -.063 .801\nCuyler, M. 6 -10 -6 -.088 .503\nGonzalez, J. 0 -21 -15 -.095 .738\n\n\nOrder by DOPS\n\n.947 Lofton\n.844 Griffey\n.832 Devereaux\n.812 White\n.801 Puckett\n.787 Wilson\n.738 Gonzalez\n.737 Yount\n.713 Felix\n.709 *AL Average*\n.681 Kelly\n.641 Johnson\n.631 McRae\n.503 Cuyler\n\nMore discussion --\n\nDCON formula: ((NHS + NDP)/PA) + ((NHS + NDP + NEB)/AB)\nWhy such a bizzare formula? Basically, it's designed to be added into the\nOPS, with the idea that \"a run prevented is as important as a run scored\".\nThe extra outs are factored into OBP, while the extra bases removed are \nfactored into SLG. That's why I used PA and AB as the divisors.\n\nFor more discussion see the post on Hits Stolen -- First Base 1992\n-- \nDale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Baseball fanatic", "News:\n=====\nFor the first time all season, the Flames are now injury-free. The only player\nremaining on the limp is center Carey Wilson who, even when healthy, is not \na major part of the team. \n\nTrent Yawney did not score a goal all season until the last regular season\ngame against San Jose. He potted his first of the year in that game, and has\nalso scored goals in both Game 1 and Game 2 against Los Angeles. \n\nThoughts on Game 1:\n==================\n\nThe Flames played horribly in dropping the first game of their series with\nLos Angeles 6-3 on Sunday afternoon. They seemed more interested in throwing\nbig hits than in scoring goals. They physically dominated the Kings, but that\nwas the only area they dominated in. The game plan was to rush the net and \ntry and take advantage of a young, inexperienced L.A. defence and the shaky\nKings goaltending, but those plans fell by the wayside while the Flames\nconducted a steady march to the penalty box. Particularily stupid was Theoren\nFleury taking a five minute major and a game misconduct for slamming Warren\nRychel's face into the dasher while Rychel was on his knees. \n\nGoaltender Mike Vernon played well and could not really be faulted for the\nloss, despite his well-publicized poor record in afternoon games. He got\nvery little support from his defence in clearing the front of the net and \nsweeping away rebounds. In fact, Marty McSorley's goal actually went in off\nChris Dahlquist's skate in front of the net. \n\nThoughts on Game 2:\n==================\n\nThe Flames came back strong in the second game, evidently aware of the\npotentially fatal consequences of losing both the first two games on home ice.\nThe first period was fairly even, with the edge going to the Kings. But Calgary\ncame out strong in the second period and simply dominated the Kings, scoring\nfive goals to take a lead they never relinquished en route to a 9-4 win. \n\nThe deciding factors in this game were faceoffs and special teams. Calgary\ndominated on faceoffs as they did in Game 1, but they were able to make better\nuse of the won faceoffs in this game than they did in the first one. Calgary\nalso went 3-for-5 on the powerplay while L.A. only went 1-for-8 and gave up\na shorthanded goal to Joel Otto. L.A.'s powerplay goal also came late in the\ngame with the outcome already decided. The Kings' powerplay failed them when\nthey needed it most, in the 1st and 2nd periods. \n\nThe Flames lost RW Greg Paslawski with a suspected shoulder injury when he\nwas leveled by Alexei Zhitnik right after scoring Calgary's 7th goal. Charlie\nHuddy left the game for the Kings with a groin injury. \n\nThe game was marred by stupidity in the last minute. First, Craig Berube of\nCalgary took a five-minute major for fighting plus a game misconduct for\ninstigating when he went after Tony Granato for no apparent reason. Granato\ndrew a minor for some strange reason. (Turtling perhaps). This was followed\n30 seconds later by Warren Rychel drawing a major, minor, and game misconduct\nfor hitting Frank Musil in the face with his stick and then instigating a\nfight. Musil got a fighting major for some similarily strange reason. Hardy and\nYawney went toe-to-toe and both got double minors. (Gregson thought that Musil \nturtling amounted to fighting, but that Yawney and Hardy throwing punches at \neach other was just roughing? Where's this guy from.....)\n \nUpcoming games:\n==============\nFriday April 23, at L.A.\nSunday April 25, at L.A.\nTuesday April 27, home to L.A. \nThursday April 29, at L.A. (if necessary)\nSaturday May 1, home to L.A. (if necessary)\n\nInjuries:\n========\nC Carey Wilson, indefinite with recurring knee injuries (Dec 10)\n\n1992-93 Calgary Flames final regular season statistics.\n========================================================\n\n# Pos. Name GP G A Pts +/- PIM\n===============================================================================\n14 RW Theoren Fleury 83 34 66 100 +14 88\n26 C Robert Reichel 80 40 48 88 +25 54\n20 D Gary Suter 81 23 58 81 -1 112\n10 LW Gary Roberts 58 38 41 79 +32 172\n25 C Joe Nieuwendyk 79 38 37 75 +9 52\n42 RW Sergei Makarov 71 18 39 57 0 40\n 2 D Al MacInnis 50 11 43 54 +15 61\n29 C Joel Otto 75 19 33 54 +2 150\n28 LW Paul Ranheim 83 21 22 43 -4 26\n23 RW Greg Paslawski 73 18 24 42 +3 12\n22 RW Ron Stern 70 10 15 25 +4 207\n15 LW Brent Ashton 58 10 13 23 +11 52\n11 LW Chris Lindberg 62 9 12 21 -3 18\n34 D Roger Johansson 77 4 16 20 +13 62\n18 D Trent Yawney 63 1 16 17 +9 67\n 3 D Frank Musil 80 6 10 16 +28 131\n39 C Brian Skrudland 39 7 7 14 +4 65\n16 LW Craig Berube 77 4 8 12 -6 209\n 7 D Michel Petit 35 3 9 12 -5 54\n 4 D Kevin Dahl 61 2 9 11 +9 56\n33 C Carey Wilson (I) 22 4 7 11 +10 8\n 5 D Chris Dahlquist 74 3 7 10 0 66\n21 D Alexander Godynyuk 27 3 4 7 +6 19\n19 RW Todd Harkins 15 2 3 5 -4 22\n12 LW Paul Kruse 27 2 3 5 +2 41\n35 G Jeff Reese 26 0 4 4 0 4\n 6 D Greg Smyth 35 1 2 3 +2 95\n30 G Mike Vernon 64 0 2 2 0 42\n27 RW Thomas Forslund 6 0 2 2 0 0\n?? C Shawn Heaphy 1 0 0 0 0 2\n?? LW Patrick Lebeau 1 0 0 0 0 0\n 1 G Andrei Trefilov 1 0 0 0 0 2", "I heard the other day that Rush has gotten together with Tammy Faye Baker.\n They were crawling in bed the other night and Rush's feet brushed up against\n Tammy's legs. \"God! your feet are cold\" she said. Rush looked back at here\n and said, \"Tammy honey, I told you when we're alone you can just call me\n Rush.\" \n\n\n Ba dump Bump! pishhhhh", "With all the recent problems the Indians have been having\nwith their pitching staff I have heard numerous names\nthrown around about who could solve their problem.\n\nOne name I have not heard is Mike Soper (RP). As far as\nI know, Soper has had pretty good minor league stats.\nWhy not give the kid a chance? Anyone know anything about\nthis guy?\n\n-- ", "\n\tRelying on Canadian tourists and transplanted Northeasterners to\nsupport a team in Miami is crazy; espaecially when you have really deserving \ncities without a team such as San Diego & Milwaukee. I wish the Panthers or\nwhatever their name is well but if they can't sell to Hispanics, they're in\ndeep doo-doo. Already, there are rumors that Tampa may move to Milwaukee.\n", "I have been to all 3 Isles/Caps tilts at the Crap Centre this year, all Isles\nwins and there is no justification for Vukota and Pilon to play for the Isles.\nVukota is absolutely the worst puck handler in the world!! He couldn't hit a\nbull in the ass with a banjo!! Al must remember a few years back when Mick \nscored 3 goals in one period against the Caps in a 5-3 Isles win. I was there\nand was astonished as was the rest of the crowd. Wake-up Al!!! Years later he's\ngotten worse. He's a cheap shot artist and always ends up getting\nstupid/senseless penalties. I think he would make a good police officier!!!\n\nAs for Pilon, he can't carry the puck out to center ice by himself. He either\nmakes a bad pass resulting in a turnover, or he attempts to bring the puck \ntowards the neutral zone and skates right into an opposing skater. He can't\nstay on his skates with most forwards or centers. He either falls down or \ncommitts a penalty. Call up somebody from Capital District AL!!!!!\n\nAs far as the playoffs, the Isles are as difficult to figure out as the Caps.\nTwo good teams with talent but so inconsistent. They should meet in the first\nround. The Isles seem to play up to the level of their competition so they\nshould play well against Jersey tonite. It'll probably be another tight 1-goal\ngame as the last 20 games hve been for the Isles. I wish when the get a lead\nthey could continue to pour it on instead of settling back into a defensive\nshell and letting the opposition get back in the game. Al MUST understand he\ncan't do with this team what he did with the 80-83 Isles. maybe Al should got\nto. Where is Bobby Nystrom?? Clark Gilles?? John Tonelli?? These are the kind\nof young minds we need behing the bench!! FIRE AL!!!!\n\nJohn Scialdone\nSCIALDONE@NSSDCA.GSFC.NASA.GOV", "Greetings baseballers, \n\n\tI have a choice of two more or less identical conferences to\nattend, one in \nDenver, and one in Dallas, both May 24-28. Could some kind Rockies\nor Rangers \n(they DO play in the Dallas area, right?) fans please let me know if\nthere \nare home dates for that week. I'd love to catch a game. ", "\n\nAnd you wrote an *excellent* report about it.\n\n\n\n\nI understand (from an unreliable source) that Canseco was considered\nexpendable by the A's when he refused to accept any coaching about\nhis batting stance. The A's brain trust came to believe that his\nback problems were exacerbated, if not caused, by having a wide open\nstance, closing it quickly and then swinging with a lot of torque\n(that's a paraphrase of what I remember).\n\nIn any event, Canseco took the road that he and he alone would decide\nhis stance, and the A's began to believe that he would either reinjure\nhimself or begin to lose his ability to hit for both average and power.\n\n\n\n\nApparently, you sound like LaRussa.\n\n\nThe A's also objected about this.\n\n\n\nAgain, I'm just repeating something I heard. But possibly the cause\nand effect is the reverse of that.\n\n\n\n\n\n--\tThe Beastmaster\n\n", "Well, I'm finally about to key in the official rules for the archives, but\nbefore I do, I will ask again...\n\ndoes anybody have the official MLB rules in electronic format?\n\nJust trying to save myself a ton of work...no, they don't scan well because\nof the ridiculous format they're printed in.\n\nthanks\n\n- Matt\n\n\n\nMatt Wall * wall@cc.swarthmore.edu * Hey, I gotta job here, OK?", "\nI had heard(perhaps incorrectly) that while Lemieux was out, noone wore a\nC on their jersey. The As took turns doing captain duties(whatever they\nare).\n\nScott...\nscott.marks@launchpad.unc.edu\nscott.marks@launchpad.unc.edu", "As a guess, Hamilton would be put into the Midwest, with either\nWinnipeg or Dallas moving to the Pacific.", "Everybody. Please send me your predictions for the Stanley Cup Playoffs!\nI want to see who people think will win.!!!!!!!\n\nPlease Send them in this format, or something comparable:\n\n1. Winner of Buffalo-Boston\n2. Winner of Montreal-Quebec\n3. Winner of Pittsburgh-New York\n4. Winner of New Jersey-Washington\n5. Winner of Chicago-(Minnesota/St.Louis)\n6. Winner of Toronto-Detroit\n7. Winner of Vancouver-Winnipeg\n8. Winner of Calgary-Los Angeles\n\n9. Winner of Adams Division (1-2 above)\n10. Winner of Patrick Division (3-4 above)\n11. Winner of Norris Division (5-6 above)\n12. Winner of Smythe Division (7-8 above)\n\n13. Winner of Wales Conference (9-10 above)\n14. Winner of Campbell Conference (11-12 above)\n\n15. Winner of Stanley Cup (13-14 above)\n\nI will summarize the predictions, and see who is the biggest\nINTERNET GURU PREDICTING GUY/GAL.\n\nSend entries to Richard Madison\nrrmadiso@napier.uwaterloo.ca\n\nPS: I will send my entries to one of you folks so you know when I say\nI won, that I won!!!!!", "\nDo you have a better e-mail address, Mr. Lurie? I'm afraid I can't\nget the short version to work.\n\nIn any case, on Winfield. Yes, his career BA is a mere .285. He\ndidn't beat this until his sixth year in the majors, and has only\ntopped it once since 1988. His peak was in the early '80s, and\nincluded some rather impressive seasons. But then he's also had\nother scattered great performances (like 1988 and 1992). Definitely\n*not* a smooth career curve!", "\n\n\n\nI hear ya, brother.\n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nLet's try WEEKS! It is April 18th today and I just finished reading posts\nregarding the Cleveland Indians boating tragedy. Needless to say, I don't want\nto read partial linescores of games played 3 weeks ago.\n\nAs Charles mentioned (I excluded the quote): Join a mailing list if you want to\nwoof (I consider entering 4th inning scores as woofing). Thank you. Now to\nplug on and read the rest of the posts about spring training...\n\n _____________________________________________________________________________\n Jim Savoy University Of Lethbridge savoy@hg.uleth.ca", "\n\nThe Selke candidate forwards main purpose on a shift is to prevent goals\nfrom being scored- not to score them. When Lemieux or Gilmour play their\nnumber one purpose is to score- defence is secondary- especially considering\nthe line that plays against them is probably a defensive one. That is\nwhy they are not Selke candidates.\n\n\nSomeone posted something about this assumption being lost in translation\n(it was a few months ago). Whoever this was please repost it.\n\n\nGainey is the best defensive forward ever. I stand by that assessment.\nHe was a very good player who belongs in the hall of fame. Did you\never watch him play? He never made a technical error.\n\n\n\n\nWho are these pundits?? Gilmour was good with St Louis- but he was not the\nbest two-way player in the game when he was with them. You have overhyped\nGilmour on this net for months. He is a very good forward- but hardly the\nbest in the NHL.", "I have some advice for you, and some thoughts about\nyour hatred of the Minnesota North Stars:\n\n1. A real team like Toronto would not be moved, you are right,\n just eliminated from the playoffs first round!\n2. Why stay in Minnesota when you can go to a college in\n Western Ontario and actually take classes on map-reading\n and the Artistry of BSing specifically set up for just you.\n3. Why should anyone love the Stars, when hating the Leafs\n is so much better?\n4. Oh, I'm sorry.. well, maybe you can't understand my\n big words.. next time I'll limit my vocabulary to words\n like \"get real team now\" and \"do not waste our time\"\n5. Respond to this article. I love to laugh at your humor,\n even though it it unintentional. I got a BIG kick out of\n GO LEAFS GO.... go where? HOME, I think!! :)\n-- \ndelarocq@eos.ncsu.edu\n\n\n \n--------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n1988,1989,1990,1991 AFC East Division Champions\n1991,1992, AND 1993 AFC Conference Champions!!!!!!!! :)\n\nSquished the Fish ............... Monday Night Football, November 16, 1992..\nSQUISHED THE TRASH TALKING FISH.. AFC CHAMPIONSHIP, JANUARY 17, 1992..", "Last night, Boston Red Sox win its 11 games of 14 games by beating Seattle\n5-2. Roger Clemson pitch not so dominate. He walked at least 6 man in\nfirst 6 inns. But Valetin and Greenwell hit homeruns and Red Sox prevail.", "\nSorry Len, this is exactly how he suffered from being rushed to the bigs.\nBeing overweight and having no work ethic, leading to being injury prone with\nnothing to loose, might have been corrected in Richmond. (Did you intend a \nsmiley after your comment?)\n\nThis brings back the long suffering memories of pre-chop Braves fans who\nkept being promised the Bob Horner - Dale Murphy back to back power slam. Who\ncould stop that? Guess we'll never know.\n\nP.S. - Rocky fans (are there any yet?) Is Dale getting any playing time out\nthere? I plan to be at the game on June 28th, they'll have to play him then.\n\n", "\n [ etc. ]\n\nHey, he's the only manager so far to lead the Seattle Mariners to a \nwinning season, out of, what, fifteen? Give him some credit for that.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t-- dave\n\n-- \n /''' The Machman machman@u.washington.edu david c carroll\n c-OO \n \\ \"Big Science. Hallelujah\"", "} Last night, Boston Red Sox win its 11 games of 14 games by beating Seattle\n} 5-2. Roger Clemson pitch not so dominate. He walked at least 6 man in\n} first 6 inns. But Valetin and Greenwell hit homeruns and Red Sox prevail.\n\nClemens struggled with his control, but was also the \"beneficiary\"\nof some pretty shoddy umpiring. but to be fair, most of the walks were\nearly in the game, and he adjusted. he was also helped by (dare i say\nit?) some pretty good defense by the Sox, including Rivera playing\nat second, not his normal position.\n\nactually, Clemens is pretty lucky that he got the win, considering the Sox\nalmost gave up the lead in the bottom of the 7th on Mo's error catching\na throw-over.\n\n} I think that game is must win for Red Sox in Seattle, considering Darwin will\n} faced Seattle ace Randy Johnson tonight.\n\nmust win? in April?\nthey've already won 4 more games so far than anyone thought they would at this \npoint of the season... i hope people aren't getting too caught up\nin this streak; it's been fun, but teams have 11-3 streaks all the time,\nand it is only when they are at the start of the season that they get\nso much attention.", "This comes indirectly from Al Morgani who works in the studio\nfor ESPN hockey.\n\n\tThe management of ESPN was reluctant to leave the Pitt-NJ game \n(even though the outcome was certain) because of fear of the Wash-Ny game \ngoing to overtime. When the Caps scored with :02 left to tie the game, Al said\nhe heard many people say f**K .!#$%. \n\tESPN is under contractual obligation to show baseball and COULD NOT\nbroadcast the OT of the hockey game. Next year, ESPN2 will be introduced so \nbaseball fans can watch baseball and hockey fans can watch hockey.\n\n\tGET OFF ESPN'S BACK AND STOP POSTING ARTICLES ON THIS SUBJECT!!!\nThere have been to many f****n complainers about this game that it's making me\nsick.", " Wanna bet ??? You must be too young to remember Bob Askin :-)\nRead the Costigan commision report if you want to know about corruption\nin OZ.", "Speaking of Roger and ilk, whatever happened to good ol' gln? I had him in\nmy kill file since last year's playoffs and now that I've moved to a new\nnews reader which doesn't have kill files, I find that he's gone. I must\nadmit, however, that unlike gln, Roger seems to know something about the game\nas long as the subject doesn't touch on the Leafs.", "\nYeah... I think that the Flames and the Flyers traded Captains once... Mel \nBridgeman for Brad Marsh.", "\n\n\n\n\n\nI suspect that splits such as these are the result of positioning. An\noutfielder who is fast and gets a good jump would be expected to catch a\nlot of balls, preventing both singles and doubles, and also cut off more\nuncatchable balls, turinging doubles into singles. However, a fielder\nwho plays shallow will catch more short flies and fewer long flies; this\nmeans that he will allow fewer singles but more doubles.\n\nHas anyone seen these players' positioning? Do Butler and Felix play\ndeep, and Lankford, Martinez, and Wilson shallow, or is this a park\neffect? I thought Butler liked to play shallow.\n", "Mark Singer brings up the Strawberry Incident, where he lost a homerun\nand the fan caught it.\n\n\nYes, I think he should have done more to get out of the way. As much\nas fans want to catch a ball, they really should be aware that winning\nthe game is more important. As a Dodger fan, he has to be aware that\nthis is the home stadium, and that entails helping the home team win\nin any way possible. As soon as the ball was hit that far, his first\ninstinct should be to root for Darryl to catch it, not to try to catch\nit himself, particularly when he is sitting that close.\n\nI enjoy the attitude of the Wrigley fans, where they are against \nvisiting team home runs so much, they actually throw them back on the\nfield.\n\nNow, this has nothing to do with whether Darryl could have caught it or\nnot. Sure, he probably screwed up, but the fan should realize his\nfirst responsibility is to get out of the way and help the team win.\n", "\nDoesn't it also have the Statue of Liberty on it or is that Richter's Mask?\n\nThe back actually has a Bee followed by a Z to represent the Beezer. It \nalso has something that looks like the three interconnecting circles from\nthe Led Zepplin 4 album cover. Is that what it is supposed to be? and if\nit is does anybody know why he would put it there? Ali?\n\n\nJohn\n\"The official Language of Golf is Profanity\"\n\n\n", "Just a quick note about Manon's immediate future: Rumor has it(USA Today's spor\nts page) that she will be playing with Tampa Bay's affiliate in the ECHL(I Thin\nk. It's been a couple of days. :)) She will supposedly be competing for the num\nber 2 goaltender spot. I think, after her performance, which was damn good for\n someone who hasn't played squat all year, that we'll be seeing a lot more of h\ner in Atlanta in the years to come.\n \n \nWard", "\nLloyd Pettit.\n\n\nYes, it is true that he refused to buy a franchise from the NHL for $50M; but\nat the time the reason was that the established market for teams was much \nless than that. He felt that no one would pay $50M for an expansion team, and\nthat he would simply wait to buy an existing franchise for less than that. But\nthe market fooled him, and 5 teams have been created for $50M apiece in the\nlast three years, and even the existing teams can't be moved for less than \n$50M and I doubt that he could get one for that little.\n\nPettit gambled and lost. Now he'll have to pay more.", "Group A\t\t\t\t\tGroup B\n~~~~~~~\t\t\t\t\t~~~~~~~\n\nCardiff Devils 7-3 Bracknell Bees\tNottingham Panthers 8-3 Billingham\nHumberside 7-7 Whitley Warriors\tMurrayfield Racers 11-2 Fife Flyers\nWhitley Bay 6-9 Cardiff Devils Billingham Bombers 6-8 Murrayfield\nHumberside 8-5 Bracknell Bees\tNottingham Panthers 11-5 Fife Flyers\nCardiff Devils 10-4 Humberside\t\tMurrayfield Racers 6-4 Nottingham\nBracknell Bees 4-9 Whitley Bay\tFife Flyers 2-5 Billingham\nBracknell Bees 3-8 Cardiff Devils\tBillingham Bombers 2-8 Nottingham\nWhitley Bay 5-7 Humberside\t\tFife Flyers 3-12 Murrayfield\n\n\t\tP W D L F A P\t\t\t P W D L F A P\nCardiff Devils 4 4 0 0 34 16 8*\tMurrayfield Racers 4 4 0 0 37 15 8*\nHumberside 4 2 1 1 26 27 5\tNottingham Panthers 4 3 0 1 31 16 6*\nWhitley Bay 4 1 1 2 27 27 3\tBillingham Bombers 4 1 0 3 16 26 2\nBracknell Bees 4 0 0 4 15 32 0\tFife Flyers\t 4 0 0 4 12 39 0\n\n* indicates qualified for Championship Finals\n\nRelegation/Promotion A\t\t\tRelegation/Promotion B\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\t\t\t~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n\nBasingstoke 10-4 Swindon Wildcats Sheffield Steelers 12-8 Peterborough\nDurham Wasps 13-5 Romford Raiders\tSlough Jets 1-9 MK Kings\nBasingstoke 6-0 Durham Wasps\tSheffield Steelers 9-4 Milton Keynes\nSwindon 8-5 Romford Raiders Milton Keynes Kings 4-6 Peterborough\nDurham Wasps 17-2 Swindon Wildcats\tSlough Jets 2-12 Sheffield\nRomford 4-10 Basingstoke \tPeterborough 10-2 Slough Jets\nRomford *8-3* Durham Wasps\tPeterborough\t 8-5 Sheffield\nSwindon 7-11 Basingstoke Milton Keynes Kings 10-4 Slough Jets\n\n\t\tP W D L F A P\t\t\t P W D L F A P\nBasingstoke 4 4 0 0 37 15 8\tSheffield Steelers 4 3 0 0 38 22 6\nDurham Wasps 4 2 0 2 33 21 4\tPeterborough 4 3 0 1 32 23 6\nSwindon 4 1 0 3 21 43 2\tMilton Keynes Kings 4 2 0 2 27 20 4\nRomford Raiders 4 1 0 3 22 34 2\tSlough Jets\t 4 0 0 4 9 41 0\n", "You should be ashamed to call yourself an Ulf Samuelson fan. Anybody who plays\nthe way he does, does not belong in the NHL. There have been cheap shot artists\nthrough the history of the game, but a lot of them have been talanted players.\nBobby Clarke, Kenny Linsemen, Pie McKenzie, Chris Chelios etc.. but nobody has been\nout right as dirty a cheapshot coward as Ulf. Violence in hockey has got to be curbed\nand players like (Should have been a Women) Samuelson don't belong. When players\nlike Ulf, who's main purpose is to injure the better players in the league is allowed\nto continue, and the league won't stop it, the players should. A Christian Pro 1000\naluminum stick directed at his ugly head should do the trick nicely. If the Bruins get\na chance to meet Pittsburgh in the near future, you can bet Neely will have his day.\nThe sight of watching Ulf turtle up like the coward he is, is worth almost as much as a\nStanely Cup. This wimp of a player almost ruined the career of one the best right wingers\nin the game. If you are to remove Ulf Samuelson from the lineup, the Penguins would not\neven notice he's gone. He's an eyesore on the game of hockey.\n", "First game, first at bat.", "Wow, this guy seems to be out to prove something to his old team, Boston.\nWhich Sweeney you ask...well, of course Bob Sweeney, the one that Boston\nlet Buffalo get a hold of (they still have 2 Sweeneys which makes things\nslightly confusing). Game winner in OT in game 1, and another\nBIG goal (seconds after Fuhr made 3 point blank saves -> this is why\nGrant has 5 rings!!!) to put Buffalo ahead in the 3rd. Yes, Neely countered\na minute later, but hadn't this course of Buffalo going ahead after being\ntied and shutting down another few great scoring opportunities, I\nthink Boston would have notched their first win of the series.\n\nWell, the Sabres haven't made it to the end of this series yet, but\nI certainly feel they've got Boston right were they want them...actually,\nthey've got them in a position that neither Buffalo nor Boston felt\nthat would come about. One more astronomical game by Fuhr, a few more\nheroics by the rest of the team (this is a team sport afterall) and I\nthink Borque, Neely, Jouneau (sp?), and Company are gonna be swinging\na new stick (Weather is perfect for golf season) real soon. I'm not\ngonna waiger anything on this, because I've seen some really strange\nthings happen in both pro and college hockey.\n\nTalking about golf...was that a hockey swing, golf swing or baseball\nswing that Hawerchuck used in the last shot of the game that Khmylev\ndeflected in for the BIG ONE? The whole OT (all 1 minute of it!) was a\ntesiment to Buffalo's ability to really be persistent and grind it out\nin the end (something they weren't necessarily in the regular season). The\nSabres pushed hard and forced Borque to blatently take down Bodger in\nthe opening seconds. I don't normally like penalties being called in\nsuch ultra-critical points, but this was BLATENT. Finally, the Sabres\nwon a faceoff (they weren't that hot in this dept the rest of the game)\nwhen LaFontaine scooped at the puck 3 times. When Hawerchuck took his\nshot (quite a boomer, but Blue stopped this one) he took a few steps\nover to get his own rebound and slapped at it again, without setting\nit up. I didn't realize it went in until the announcer started screaming,\n\"They score, THEY SCORE!!!\". The best was seeing LaFontaine jumping\nup and down, skating a little bit, jumping some more, and then skating\nover to Brad May who he jumped on.", "\nbleagh! this was a terrific trade. snow will certainly be better than\nmattingly in the future, but that they'll be about the same now is a\ndefensible opinion. abbott is one of the few truly great pitchers in\nthe game today.\n\n\ni'm not sure about this one. i think that it's good, in that a\npre-1992 boggs kicks hayes/meulens/whoevers' ass, and that a 1992\nboggs still isn't ALL that shabby. it's bad, though, that the\nyankees expect a pre-1992 boggs, and will probably get a 1992 boggs.\nhowever, i'd still play boggs over hayes or bam bam.\n\n\nyou have my full agreement here. he's not all that much better than\nvelarde, and silvestri is just about a lock to be better than him.\nhowever, i do enjoy the fact that \"spike\" is not a nickname.\nnot that this helps the yankees.\n\n\ni strongly disagree. i'd much much rather have a hundred games of\ntartabull and sixty games of dion james than 162 games of james.\n", "\n[... stuff deleted ...]\n\nI have to agree here. As I heard on TSN tonight, \"You want to pick\nsomeone else, but you just don't see how you can\". And I'm a Bruins\nfan. Maybe this year will be different, but it doesn't look good.\nTime will tell, though.\n\n[... lots more deleted ...]\n\nRandy", "\nI haven't seen enough Royals' games to judge his tactics, so you may have\na point here. But:\n\n\nIMO, the Royals don't have a chance to win the pennant even if McRae\nsuddenly began channeling for John McGraw. OK, they have some decent\npitchers. But when your offense consists of bums like Gagne and Lind\nand McReynolds and McRae and an over-the-hill Brett, you're not going\nto finish .500 unless McGraw brings Christy Mathewson back with him.\n\nI'd say it is hard to evaluate a manager when all of his hitters suck.", "\n\tIt's not really crap you know... only half crap ;-) From what i \nunderstand it's very expensive to play hockey south of the border... \n(actually it's not that cheap up hear either... though once you have all the\nequipement it's not more than $300 a year... actually i haven' played in\nabout 8 years so i could be off a bit... ) In the states, where ice time\nis considerably more expensive it can cost over a thousand a year... compare \nthis to baseball and you'll see that hockey is a sport for the well-to-do...\nAnd this brings up the fact that the well-to-do in the US are majority white...\n\nBTW: what was the original question... i think it has to do with the Hispanic\ncommuntiy and playing hockey.... \n\n\n\t\t\t\t\tCheers!\n\t\t\t\t\t\ti.\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------", "\n\n\n\tBaltimore Baseblazers? Where the hell did you come up with that? The\nOrioles are not a base-stealing team except for Anderson. Besides we would\nnever call them anything but the Baltimore Orioles. Why? The ballpark has\nall these orthologically (spelling error?) correct BALTIMORE ORIOLES all\nover the place. I bet you thought the bird is just an oriole. It's not. The\nbird was named after Lord Baltimore when Maryland was founded. They're\ncalled Baltimore Orioles. But the post is just a joke so why do I care what\na non-O's fan thinks of us? But I still wonder where Baseblazers came from.\nSan Diego Padres, now there's a name that needs to be changed. How is padre\nbeing used? As \"Father\" ie priest or \"father\" ie parents?", "\n\nAbsolute nonsense. The decision that was made was Pocklington's. He chose \n20 mill over Gretzky. If Gretzky wasn't upset about not being able to win\na cup in LA then I submit that he wasn't worth the 20 mill.\n\n\nHow do you know what he thinks (or thought)? The only \"thought\" that I\ncan see that you have revealed is your own. You don't like Gretzky.\nBig deal.\n\n\nThe real purpose of diving is not merely an attempt to draw a penalty. What\nthe player is trying to do is make the checkers keep their distance so the\nref won't be fooled. I can't imagine why anyone would expect someone like\nLemieux to change his game. Why don't you pick on 1 dimensional over-rated\ntype like Hull and Salami. \n\n\n-- ", "Ottawa picks first, because they had fewer wins during the season, the\nfirst tiebreaker.\n\n--\n Keith Keller\t\t\t\tLET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!\n\t\t\t\t\t\tLET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!\n\tkkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu\t\tIVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!", "Does anybody know what is going on with Lankford? I know he was\nout for a few games with a slight injury, but since he has\nbeenback (and before the injury for that matter) he has been\nreally struggling at the plate and on the basepaths.\n\nWhereis the Ray Lankford we saw last year???\n\n\n--\nmsilverm@nyx.cs.du.edu\t\t\t\tGO CUBS!!!", "One way Omaha to Seattle\nticket in my name [Jessamyn West]\nfor travel 5/9. Must be picked up at Omaha airport [or thereabouts]\non 5/6. Continental Airlines. Make me an offer.", "\nSomething else to consider:\n\nAlomar's H-R splits were .500-.363 SLG, .444-.369 OBP! Baerga's was .486-.424\nand .392-.318. Pretty clearly, Alomar got a HUGE boost from his home park.\n\nI'd say you could make a good for them being about equal right now. T&P\nrated Baerga higher, actually.\n\nMike", "Well, Maddux looked excellent as the Braves shutout the Cubs 1 - 0.\nJustice drove in the only run with an RBI single in the first. Get\nready for him to have a monster year. He is now hitting the ball to\nthe opposite field with a lot of power to go with his natural \npower to right field and his good batting eye. If he stays healthy\nwhich he should (his back is full strength this year) he should\nget over 100 RBI and close to 30 HR.\n\nIn another note, the Marlins got off to a good start beating the\nDodgers. I believe the score was 6 - 3 but I'm not sure. I wish\nthem and the Rockies well this year. Hell. I think it would be\nfunny to watch the Dodgers hit the cellar again this year.", "\n\nThere's nothing wrong with a red neck. Why, some of us hicks even\nlisten to cultured music and such, can you say the same? Aside from\nthat, you shouldn't try to shit on this guy by insulting where YOU\nthink he comes from. Where I'm from, we milk cows, drive trucks, and\nyes, even like baseball. So screw anyone that doesn't like it.\n\nOh yeah, learn the difference between to and too city-boy! (see below)\n\n\t-thom\n\t unnumbered wanna-be member of the Bob Knepper Fan Club (BKFC)\n", "\n\nUgliest stance of all time has to go to Oscar Gamble. The man would\npractically kneel in front of home plate in order to have a small strike\nzone! (He's just lucky that strike zone size isn't determined by how big\nyour afro is:)", "After reading some of the reports of possible NHL moves to Milwaukee or that\nMilwaukee should have an NHL team, I thought I'd pass along a story I heard\nrecently. This is second hand, so I don't know how true it is, but I have\nno reason to doubt it either.\n\nBradley Center in Milwaukee is home to the Milwaukee Admirals minor leauge\nhockey team. The owner of the Admirals (sorry, I can't remember his name)\neither owns or at least shelled out the majority of the funds to build the\nBradley Center.\n\nSupposedly he was approached by the NHL about an expansion franchise, but \nturned it down because he thought the franchise fee of $50 million was too\nhigh.\n\nLike I said, I don't know whether this story is true or just a rumor, but if\nit's true, don't look for an NHL team in Milwaukee anytime soon. The Admirals\naren't going to be forced out of the building and you won't see an NHL club\nand a minor league club in the same building, especially since the NBA's\nMilwaukee Bucks play there as well.", "I was asked to post the team log of this year's winning team in the regular\nseason draft. Here 'tis:\n\n%begin Dave_Wessels\n...reading team 'Dave_Wessels' from database\n%log all\n\nTeam log:\n\nName\t\t\tTeam\tPoints\tValue\tBought\tWeek\tSold\tWeek\nTrevor Linden VAN\t72\t72.0\t78.8\tpre\t70.4\t10\nCliff Ronning VAN\t85\t85.0\t74.6\tpre\t97.8\t6\nRobert Reichel CGY\t88\t88.0\t58.9\tpre\t51.4\t8\nPat Verbeek HFD\t82\t82.0\t63.0\tpre\t64.3\t7\nPat Falloon SJ\t28\t28.0\t62.7\tpre\t46.8\t7\nJohn MacLean NJ\t48\t48.0\t55.0\tpre\t27.5\t7\nEric Lindros PHI\t75\t75.0\t55.0\tpre\t105.0\t6\nRick Tocchet PIT\t109\t109.0\t81.2\tpre\t106.9\t9\nGreg Adams VAN\t56\t56.0\t63.0\tpre\t93.8\t8\nMike Ricci QUE\t78\t78.0\t60.3\tpre\t79.8\t6\nJoe Juneau BOS\t102\t102.0\t55.0\tpre\t110.9\t6\nKevin Hatcher WSH\t79\t79.0\t57.4\tpre\t54.6\t6\nTeemu Selanne WPG\t132\t132.0\t55.0\tpre\t109.2\t6\nPavel Bure VAN\t110\t110.0\t77.5\tpre\t108.9\t8\nDixon Ward VAN\t52\t52.0\t55.0\tpre\t61.2\t7\nRuss Courtnall MIN\t79\t79.0\t60.7\t6\t84.6\t14\nDarren Turcotte NYR\t53\t53.0\t60.7\t6\t72.1\t14\nChristian Ruuttu CHI\t54\t54.0\t61.9\t6\t52.2\t13\nPetr Nedved VAN\t71\t71.0\t59.3\t6\t84.5\t12\nPetr Klima EDM\t48\t48.0\t65.3\t6\t--\t--\nTony Granato LA\t82\t82.0\t56.0\t6\t75.6\t12\nSteve Duchesne QUE\t82\t82.0\t88.7\t6\t92.2\t13\nAlexander Mogilny BUF\t127\t127.0\t103.8\t6\t118.8\t14\nRay Sheppard DET\t66\t66.0\t55.0\t7\t63.0\t15\nSteve Larmer CHI\t70\t70.0\t64.9\t7\t79.7\t17\nVincent Damphousse MTL\t97\t97.0\t64.9\t7\t94.5\t15\nTony Amonte NYR\t76\t76.0\t63.0\t7\t63.0\t16\nBrendan Shanahan STL\t94\t94.0\t55.0\t8\t--\t--\nCorey Millen LA\t39\t39.0\t55.0\t8\t48.9\t16\nJohan Garpenlov SJ\t66\t66.0\t55.0\t8\t55.9\t15\nKelly Kisio SJ\t78\t78.0\t63.0\t8\t72.3\t15\nPat Elynuik WSH\t57\t57.0\t57.0\t9\t56.7\t16\nBenoit Hogue NYI\t75\t75.0\t61.6\t10\t74.3\t20\nPat Flatley NYI\t60\t60.0\t55.0\t11\t59.9\t18\nRod Brind'Amour PHI\t86\t86.0\t74.1\t12\t81.0\t19\nMichal Pivonka WSH\t74\t74.0\t55.0\t12\t--\t--\nJoe Mullen PIT\t70\t70.0\t55.0\t12\t--\t--\nJohn Cullen TOR\t50\t50.0\t55.0\t13\t55.7\t19\nStephane Richer NJ\t73\t73.0\t55.0\t13\t61.8\t19\nJeff Norton NYI\t50\t50.0\t64.0\t14\t56.3\t20\nGlenn Anderson TOR\t65\t65.0\t55.0\t14\t--\t--\nRay Bourque BOS\t82\t82.0\t65.6\t14\t--\t--\nBernie Nicholls NJ\t60\t60.0\t72.8\t14\t67.8\t20\nAndrew Cassels HFD\t85\t85.0\t56.0\t14\t--\t--\nDmitri Kvartalnov BOS\t72\t72.0\t82.1\t15\t--\t--\nTomas Sandstrom LA\t52\t52.0\t59.7\t15\t43.6\t22\nJoe Sakic QUE\t105\t105.0\t109.6\t15\t--\t--\nRob Blake LA\t59\t59.0\t59.5\t16\t--\t--\nDerek King NYI\t76\t76.0\t68.3\t16\t70.9\t22\nMichel Goulet CHI\t44\t44.0\t55.0\t16\t45.4\t23\nMike Modano MIN\t93\t93.0\t90.5\t17\t--\t--\nDmitri Khristich WSH\t67\t67.0\t55.0\t18\t--\t--\nAlexander Semak NJ\t79\t79.0\t62.6\t19\t--\t--\nNikolai Borschevsky TOR\t74\t74.0\t69.3\t19\t--\t--\nMike Donnelly LA\t69\t69.0\t70.5\t19\t--\t--\nJeff Brown STL\t78\t78.0\t69.1\t20\t--\t--\nThomas Steen WPG\t72\t72.0\t55.0\t20\t--\t--\nKevin Dineen PHI\t63\t63.0\t55.5\t20\t--\t--\nMario Lemieux PIT\t160\t160.0\t134.9\t22\t--\t--\nWayne Gretzky LA\t65\t65.0\t55.0\t23\t--\t--\nYou have 1.9 cash points.\n\nAs of week 28, your team is placed 1 (of 262 teams).\n-- \nAndrew Scott | andrew@idacom.hp.com\nHP IDACOM Telecom Operation | (403) 462-0666 ext. 253", "Off and on over the last several months, threads about RBIs and\nrelated topics have gotten me to thinking about how well we can \npredict a player's RBIs using information about his overall\nperformance and the number of runners in scoring position (RISP)\nthat he bats with. In the Brock2 model, Bill James calculated\npredicted RBIs as RBI=.235*(Total Bases) + Home Runs. This \ncompletely ignores the context, which was all that Brock2 \ncould do, since context was unknown to it. So I thought I'd\ntake that idea as a starting point and look how good a fit to\nthe data you get by comparing (RBI-Home Runs) to SLG*RISP.\n\nI've started with team data, using data from the Elias's that\nI've picked up over the years when a) I could afford them and\nb) I could stomach the thought of increasing Elias's profits.\nThat gave me the years 1984-1986, 1988, and 1990. (I don't \nhave team RBIs for '87 or I could add that year.) If you\nrun a simple least squares fit to the data you get \n\n(RBI-Home Runs) = 0.81*SLG*RISP.\n\nThe correlation between the LHS and the RHS is 0.86, which is\nsignificant at a ridiculously high level. So, I feel like the\nfit is good at the team level. I've no started to move on to \nthe player level and have looked at 4 players (Will Clark,\nOzzie Smith, Joe Carter, and Don Mattingly). I hope to \nadd quite a few more during my copious free time this year.\n\nIt doesn't do too badly, except the equation underpredicts the\nlow HR hitter (Smith), which may be a fault of the model or it\ncould just be Ozzie. The results:\n\n RBI-HR\n Years Actual Predicted\nCarter (84-88,90) 400 402.6\nClark (87,88,90,92) 269 269.6\nMatt'ly (84-88,90) 471 460.8\nSmith (84-88,90) 317 280.6\n\nI think we can make a case (and I hope to make it stronger) that\nRBIs can be predicted simply from knowing how a player slugs overall\nand how many men are in scoring position when he comes up.\n\nMore later,\nHarold", "\nIMHO...\n\nClement, although he has a pleasant personality (aggravatingly pleasant\nin my opinion), is a terrible\nanalyst, because he is almost alway wrong...the prototypical example\nbeing New Jersey's first goal last Sunday.\n\nI grew up with Dick Irvin doing color beside Danny Gallivan...I knew\ndid Irvin, Dick Irvin was a friend of mine...Bill Clement you aren't\nany Dick Irvin.\n\nAs long as the teams involved do not include the US national team or\nthe New York Rangers, I'd take John Davidson over Bill Clement any\nday.", "\nSpeaking of spelling errors on the Cup, I wonder if the \"h\" in\nPittsburgh made it to the Cup. You know how funny people can\nbe about spelling Pittsburgh.", "Giants Win the Pennant!! Giants Win the Pennant !! Gi... OOOPS\nI guess I'm a little early here...\nSee you in October...\n\n", "Can someone in this net post a Yankee Schedule?\nI need this right away.", "\n\n\nI would have chosen Alex Zhitnik for biggest suprise. They\ndid expect that he would become a great defenseman, but I don't\nthink anyone knew that he was going to be this impressive in his \nrookie year. His speed, skating ability, and puck control is\nexceptional -- he is the one to watch on the Kings.\n\n\nKris\nkris@fs2.assist.uci.edu\n\nGO KINGS!\n", "\nDuring the regular season, when the intensity is down, not many teams\nhave forwards who will continually go and park themselves in front of\nthe opposing teams net...and the inadequacy of the Leafs defense in\nthis regard thus didn't matter...however, the playoffs are a different\nstory...every good team is going to have players who are going to\nbecome potted plants in front of Potvin...and the Leafs relatively\nunphysical defensive core will finally be exposed as weak an inept.\n\nHard work will go a long way during the regular season...almost\nto 100 points...and the Leafs deserve credit for that...but in the \nplayoffs talent matters, because everyone begins working hard.", "\n The event that had the most impact on Gaetti's career was his leg injury\nin 1988. His performance dropped radically from 1988 to 1989. He was \nstill with the Twins in 1989 and 1990, but if you look at his stats (both\noffensive and defensive), he never has come back to his pre-injury level.", "Was the ABC coverage of the Kings/Flames game supposed to be the\nway it was shown in BC with CBC overriding the ABC coverage? When I flipped\nto ABC, it was the same commentators, same commercials even. My question\nis: Was this the real ABC coverage or did CBC just \"black out\" the \nABC coverage for its own?\n\n\n\tcomment:\n\n\tCBC had a great chance for some double headers: Toronto/Detroit\nand Vancouver/Winnipeg, but today they said that the East gets the Leafs\nand the West get the Vancouver game. I thought that they would show them\nboth.", "Hey,guess what's coming to ESPN for a change? A playoff which doesn't\ninvolve the Pens. Not that there is anything wrong with that...\n\nESPN games :\n\nThursday Game3 Pens at Devils at 7:30(Gary Thorne and Bill Clement)\nSaturday Game4 Caps at NY Isles at 7:30(Tom Mees and John Davidson)\n\nABC game :\n\nSunday Game4 Pens at Devils at 1:00 (Gary Thorne and Bill Clement)\n\nESPN named its #2 broadcast team on Tuesday. It paired Tom Mees(play by\nplay) with John Davidson(analyst).", "\nThat was Clint Malarchuk. That was a very dangerous accident. He could he\ndied right there on the ice. However, he has played since \nbut I don't know where he is now. I think he is still playing but I'm\nnot positive. He was a Sabre at the time.\nI don't know who skated into him though.\n\n\nI remember a couple of seasons before the Malarchuk incident Borje\nSalming of Toronto fell down in the crease and someone skated into\nhis face. That took a lot of stiches to fix.\n", "\nIs there any games being shown here in the US from the WC???\n\nThanks", "The Hawks won the Norris div, and sealed their fate. It's bad luck\nto win the Norris. The Hawks will sweep the Blues in their dreams but will\nlose in 6 in reality. I predict that in the 6 game with the Blues Belfour\nwill go down on his knees 7000 time s and will spend the rest of the time \nlooking behind him self. Butcher will pound Roenick and The warthawks have\nno one tough enough to prevent it", "It's about time the boys got it together!!\nThey were outworked and outplayed by the Wings in the first two games.\nBut Burns must have kicked their behinds cause they sure came out in full\ngear (or is that high gear?) in game 3. Except for a 10-15 minute stretch\nin the 2nd period, they outskated and outworked the Wings. Please don't\nflame this statement 'cos you know it's true! I have to admit that \ngoaltending was the key. Potvin kept the Leafs ahead during the sleepy\nstretch the Leafs went through in the 2nd. He also kept the rebounds to a\nminimum, something that cost Cheveldae 2 goals. Clark even looked like\nhe had stopped moping (first star!), although I still don't know why he\nwas so flat in games 1 and 2.\n\nIf the Leafs play the same style and can keep the pace they had in game\n3, they may actually have a chance of winning this series (a slim chance, \nbut a chance....I'm no RM.....where is he anyways? haha).", "\n\n\tOh, lighten up. What depresses me is that they might actually \nfinish last, which I believe hasn't happened since their second season in \n1970. Never mind that Gubizca is 0-2 with a 16.50 ERA, Gardner at 7.50,\nour main recent acquisitions (Lind, McReynolds, Jose) are averaging .210,\nDavid Cone is 0-2 (about how he was doing in KC before joining the Mets \nseveral years ago), our hitting sucks, and our pitching has collapsed, \nand we've won one game at home; they've won more games in their first ten\ngames than last year, and Brian McRae is actually batting over the \nMendoza line!", "\nThe injury is to his fielding hand, which is good. Unfortunately, he may\nhave some ligament damage and may require surgery, which would lay him up\nfor a while.\n\n\nApparently just a strain of some sort. He hasn't been put on the DL, so\nit's probably just day-to-day.", "\nThis leads me to believe that it's not really a rabbitball year, and that\nwe've just had a rash of high-scoring games. I bet this one day's worth\nof games pulled everything back to close to average.\n\nInteresting, because the other day, all but three games had ten or more\nruns scored, and yesterday no game had more than nine.", "\nBRING BACK HARRY! (NEALE) At least he was witty...\n", "\nI'm still catching up from Spring Break, but bear with me...\n\n\n\nJavy Lopez has proven, over 1400+ AB in the minor leagues, that he is\nready to play in the majors. He is *not* being rushed. Players who are\nclearly too good for AA and play behind stiffs at the major league level\nare wasting their time, and may actually have a court case against\nmajor league management for keeping them, at AAA.\n\n\nUnless Lopez is *me* defensively (I'm 5'7'', 165 and born to play\nsecond base :-)), he belongs in the major leagues.\n\n\nValentine isn't saying he should back up. He's saying he should be put\nin a position to *win* the job in the major leagues, which, IMHO, he\nwould if given the opportunity. (Val, if I'm misinterpreting, please\nlet me know.)\n\n\n\nBut the players who *are* ready are 1)the best and 2) the ones most\nlikely to benefit from being in the majors. Javy Lopez is not a middle-\nof-the-road prospect. He's the real thing. NOW. \n\nAgain, the most important thing a player can do is hit. Lopez does that\nmiles better than Olson or Berryhill. If his defense is good enough for\nGreenville, or Richmond, it's good enough for Atlanta. If he really was\nawful defensively, he would no longer be a catcher. See Sprague, Ed.\n\n\nOh, where to start... OK. First of all, solid != good. I want good players.\nSolid is one of those words used to describe nice white guys who really\naren't very good at baseball. Think of it as \"TWG\" without the caps.\nIt's a losing strategy to say, \"We have solid guys, we don't need to improve.\"\nYou used it four times in that paragraph, BTW.\n\nSame for experienced. I might add, though, that Greg Olson and Damon\nBerryhill aren't exactly Carter and Fisk. Olson has played three years,\nBerryhill five, although 90 and 91 were a wash. The only difference,\nIMHO, between Olson and Valle is the supporting cast.\n\n\"Two big bats.\" Hrm. I like Justice, but I find Mr. Gant's trend disturbing.\nCall it one and a maybe. The Braves' platoon is OK, but neither player\nhas *any* value outside of the platoon. Bream vs. LH and Hunter vs. RH\nare awful. I'll leave the thirdbase comment alone. Pendleton has wasted\ntoo much bandwidth already. If the CF platoon hits .300, I'll retrace\nMr. Likhani's midnight run down Forbes, and I live in NY and LA.\n(Got that, Mike?)\n\nAnd doesn't Cox call pitches, anyway?\n\n\nNope. They're baseball management, possible the most short-sighted \ncollection of people in the nation. Do you not believe this goes on,\nMark? Do you think Frank Thomas needed those three months in AAA in\n1990? Or Cal Eldred wasn't *really* better than Ricky Bones last year?\n\n\nYou're mostly polite; make defensible, if flawed cases; have wit and\nhave, in the past, admitted being wrong. That does qualify you on r.s.b.\nWe'll make an SDCN out of you, yet :-)\n", " \nWhy should we pay your predictions any heed, considering\nyou couldn't even predict the proper matchups? Maybe\nyou should try forecasting the weather instead.", "\nI applauded the Sabres for making the deal to get Fuhr, specifically because I\nthought it would help them win at least one playoff series. However, I don't\nthink the Leafs can be faulted either...there is nothing to say that Felix\nwon't be winning playoff series by himself in years to come. \n\nAnyway, does anybody else find it ironic that Fuhr is up against Moog? (or at\nleast he was until a guy named Alex showed up....:-) )\n\n", "\n\tThere was apparently a 30 minute special here on the Penguins' \nseason on ABC (WTAE - channel 4), immediately preceding the opening \ngame against the Devils on Sunday. I only turned it on in time to \nwatch the credits. If anyone taped it and is willing to let me borrow \nit to dub it, I would appreciate it. I would be willing to come pick \nit up, and I'll return it the next day and buy you a beer. Please \nrespond via e-mail. Thanks a lot.\n\tOh yeah. Was it any good?\n\t\t\t\t\t\t-Billy\n\n", "\na lot of batters lean in when pitches come. rickey's crouch tends\nto exaggerate that, i think.\n\n\"a great player to watch if you forget who he is\" - \"unbiased\"... hmmm...", "Well here it goes...my crazy predictions (which never come true, but hey..)\n\nAdams\n\tBos vs. Buf - Bos in 5 (cakewalk for the hot Bruins)\n\tQue vs. Mon - Que in 6 (best series of the first round)\n\nPatrick\n\tPit vs. NYI - Pit in 5 (NYI wins fourth game)\n\tWas vs. NJD - NJD in 7 (a grueling upset, possibly OT in game 7)\n\nNorris\n\tChi vs. StL - Chi in 5 (StL is no match for Keenan's Krew)\n\tDet vs. Tor - Tor in 6 (Clark steps it up in playoffs this year)\n\nSmythe (who cares?)\n\tVan vs. Win - Win in 7 (so I'm caught up in Teemu-mania, sue me!)\n\tCal vs. LAK - Cal in 5 (LA sucks!!!!!!!!! IMO)\n\nDivision finals\n\tBos vs. Que - Bos in 7 (killer games, watch for Cam to shine)\n\tPit vs. NJD - Pit in 6 (NJD go insane, kill all on ice, but Pit wins)\n\tChi vs. Tor - Tor in 7 (Tor defense finally get it together)\n\tCal vs. Win - Cal in 6 (Win too tired after 1st series)\n\nConference finals\n\tPit vs. Bos - Bos in 6 (Pit too beat up by NJD to play (I hope))\n\tCal vs. Tor - Tor in 6 (Vernon turns into a sieve)\n\nStanley Cup\n\tBos vs. Tor - Tor in 7 (Two totally different teams, who knows? Dreams\n\t\t\t\tcan come true, pig might one day evolve wings)\n\nFeel free to laugh at my predictions, I always do!", "\n\n[stuff deleted...]\n\n \nAs I recall, the author of the _original_ article that started the thread\nclaimed that he disliked the changing of the names for a variety of reasons. \nRoger, on one front you flamed him rather severely on the grounds that his\nwas a \"jingoistic rant\", but you also supported the name-changing on the\ngrounds that the current names are inappropriate because of the individuals\nthey represent. FWIW, I do not think the flaming was warranted, nor do I \nthink you enhanced what credibility you have with it at all. Just an \nobservation...\n\nHowever, that aside, the real question is whether you like the idea of\nchanging the names based on the reasons given for it (making it easier for\nthe 'casual fan'), or whether you like the idea of unique divisional names\nbased on individuals who do deserve the honour. IMO, the latter is a nice\nand unique touch that differs from other sports. In addition, I do not\nthink that changing divisional names will have an effect on the number of\npeople that are interested in hockey, so it's a pointless exercise anyway.\n\nIf the current names are inappropriate, then that is a separate issue, not \ncentral to the original article. Something to consider additionally is\nwhether or not players like Orr who 'contributed to the glory of the sport'\nwould have been able to do so _without_ an organized professional league to\nplay in. In this case, honouring builders of the _league_ as opposed to\nbuilders of the _sport_ becomes a chicken-and-egg type question. (although\nit was the chicken.....)\n\n\nDunno if the Stein comparison is justifiable, since it doesn't look as though\nhis 'unanimous acceptance' to the Hall will hold up.\n\n", "\nActually, I could care less what his salary is. It has something to do\nwith the fact that we live in America, and everyone is entitled to\nwhatever he can legally obtain. If Sandy Alderson and the Haas family\nwillingly negotiate a salary of $35 million per year with Rickey, I couldn't\ncare less.\n\nBut what REALLY GETS MY GOAT is the bullshit he spouted in spring training,\nabout `Well... sometimes I may not play as hard, or might be hurt more\noften, in a place where I'm not appreciated'. This quote was in the Chronicle\nabout the second week of camp, and strongly suggests that he was going to \ndog it all year if the ownership didn't kiss his butt and ante up some\nmore money. For God's sake, Rickey, you signed a contract 4 years ago,\nnow honor it and play! \n\nSay all you want to about Steve Garvey, and believe\nme, I hated him too, but at least when he put his signature on a piece\nof paper he shut his mouth and played hard until the contract was up.", "\n\nWrong information. They just announced that Suhonen has made a deal with \nJokerit.\n ", "\nQuite honestly, this one is ridiculous. Consider the following\nscenario: Runner on third. As the pitcher starts to throw home, the\nrunner takes off for home and the batter squares around to bunt for\nthe suicide squeeze. The pitcher, seeing this, does not throw home,\nbut stops in mid action and puts the runner in a run down. It is the\nbalk rule that prevents this from happening. \n\nBelieve it or not, this actually happened to me once in an OBA\n(Ontario Baseball association) game in Milton, Ontario. I was the\nbatter and to my amazement, the umpire missed it. In the 12 years\nthat I played ball, this was worst piece of umpiring I ever saw.", "\nWasn't there an 85,000 New York at Cleveland game in the late 40's?", "How does one read the betting spreads for baseball? They tend to be something\nlike 8-9 which means it must not be runs!\n\nThanks.\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDavid Rex Wood -- davewood@cs.colorado.edu -- University of Colorado at Boulder", "\n Marcus Thuresson had 6 goals, 10 assists, 16 points and 22 PIM in 31 games\n this season for Leksand in the Swedish elite league. This was only 10th\n in point scoring for Leksand.\n\n Marcus (born May 31 1971, Ht 185 cm, Wt 85 kg) is relatively young so he\n might still start producing, but I think the Sharks may have done a bad\n trade here.\n\n Staffan\n", "\nI know. You have this fucked up idea that anybody who prefers Alomar\nto Baerga must be a Jay-Lover and Indian-Hater. Sorry, you got that\none wrong! I hate the Jays and don't care one way or the other about\nthe Indians. But objectively, Alomar had the better offensive year\nlast year, so I have to pick him.\n\nYou admit T&P as a reliable(?), objective source? Then you will note\nthat they rated Alomar as the better offensive player, chosing Baerga\nover Alomar only because of his defense.\n\nThat's a joke! (Alomar might not be a gold-glover, but he's certainly\nno worse than Baerga defensively.)", "\n\n\n\nFirst, a longer game in no way suggests \"more baseball to watch,\" unless\nyou include watching the grass grow as baseball. The lengthier games\nare so because of batters stepping out of the box, pitchers taking\nlonger between pitches and excessive trips to the mound by managers\nand pitching coaches.\n\nAnd while it's true that the gaps between plays can be interesting, this\nis only true when they don't become extra-long. Quickly-pitched games\ncan grab and hold your attention much better.\n\nBring back the two-hour baseball game! (And the three and a half hour\ngolf game with it!)", "Don't know who scored, but the Isles (28-7 franchise record in\nplayoff OT games) took game four by a score of 4-3 for their\nthird consecutive OT win over the Capitals tonight at Uniondale.\nIf you know, please post who scored for a Isles fan living in\nAtlanta:Hockey Hell.\n\nLord Stan's a Uniondale Man! GO ISLES!", "What are the Leafs to do? I am a Leaf supporter and\nI say the Leafs are going down in four unless there\nis nothing short of a miracle or a stroke of genenius hits\nPat Burns.\n\nIf you were Pat Burns what would you do?\n\nLiving in the Bay area, I do not get enough Leaf coverage\nto pull something out of the bag, (I would appreciate comments\non the Leaf/Detroit 3rd line match-ups) but here is the basic\nidea...\n\nAndreychuck and Borchevsky have no business playing against \nthe Wings. They are too small. The key to any Leafs success\nwill have to be Clark. He is the only centre who can have\nany presence within 3-stick lengths of the slot. Where the\nhell is Anderson? Anderson can (in days past) get under peoples\nskin. Put a little more bluntly, Anderson has to be an asshole.\nHe used to be good at it. We need him now. \n\nPerhaps, perhaps the Leafs can shut down Detroit's second line.\nI was dissappointed to see Shepard and Yserbeart flying last night.\nThese guys are the \"swing\" players for the Wings. Last year they\ndid a major choke in the playoffs and were to blame for the quick\nexit of the Wings. **THis has to happen again**. Clark-Anderson-Gilmour\nshould be able to out hustle this line. Anderson should do a\nnasty on Yserbeart. Clark should bang the hell out of Sheppard. \nScore Gilmour score!\n\nSuggestions: Clarke-Anderson-Gilmour vs. Sheppard-Yserbeart-??\n\t Andreychuck-Borchevsy-?? vs. Detroit checking line\n\t Toronto's checking line vs. Yzerman-Fedorov-Probert (pray lots)\n\n* as suggested - i would bench Andreychuck and Borchevsky to stir things up\n\t\t and through a monkey wrench into Detroits game plan. However,\n\t\tif the Detroit coaching would be dumb enough to play their\n\t\tchecking line against these \"finesse\" players - well then\n\t\tlet them play.\n\n** Potvin can not be faulted on 5 of the goals - keep him in.\n** Van Hellamond can not be faulted for the Leafs demise either.\n** The Wings defense shut down the Leafs (especially in the slot).\n\nI hope Pat Burns realizes that his team was out-hit, out-skated, and\nout-coached on Monday night. This was not a loss because of poor goaltending\nor officiating. This calls for drastic measures ... or tee off is next Monday.\n\n\n-jake.\n", "I believe we are down to two: the 15-day and the 60-day. (I don't remember \na 30-day, but rather a 21-day. Anyways, it's gone now.) The period length \nis a minimum, not a maximum. You can keep a guy on the 15-day for as long \nas you want, IF he's still certified as injured. The player must be \nperiodically re-evaluated to determine if he's still injured (thus you \ncannot park a player on the DL who maybe is out of options and you do not \nwish to expose to waivers). If you get someone qualified for the 60-day \nthat reduces the frequency of re-evaluations. There is no longer, I \nbelieve, any limit to the number of players you can place on the DL. When \nthere was, you often had to choose and juggle your injured players between \nthe lists.\n--King \"Sparky\" Banaian\t\t\t\t|\"No taxes: No new taxes,\nkbanaian@pitzer.claremont.edu\t\t\t|no old taxes, we are taxed\nDept. of Economics, Pitzer College\t\t|enough.\" -- Rep. Alan Keyes\nLatest 1993 GDP forecast: 2.4%\t\t| (please run, Alan!)\n", "\n\nBut, Gary, for certain sofa tubers like myself, this is an advantage. I\ncan watch the Pirates on KBL, the Mets on WWOR, the Braves on TBS, and the\nmediots on ESPN at the same time, without missing anything. (If something\nimpressive happens, I'll catch the replay :-) ).\n\nSo, I see (essentially) 4 games in 3 hours, instead of 1 game in 2 hours.\nWhat a deal!\n\n(Insert smileys as desired...)\n\n", "\n\nWHY!!! DC/Baltimore is one of the top media markets (=the only thing the NHL\nseems to care about these days), they've been doing far better than the NBA\nBullets at the gate for the last five years. The team has been a perennial\ncontender and fan support has been good to excellent . . . Why should Pollin\nmove to city that's five times smaller but has as many teams in other pro\nsports. I don't get it... \n ", "1st round: \n----------\n\nPITT vs NYI: PITT in 4. \n\nIt looks like a safe bet. NYI has been bagging it of late.\nNYI and NJD have a showdown Friday night for the honour\nof Pittsburg anyway. Pigsburg in 4.\n\nWASH vs NJD: WASH in 6. \nI think that NJD have a solid team and will compete with\nWASH. I agree though with WASH in 6.\n\nBOS vs BUF: BOS in 5. \nThe B's have been playing awesome hockey in the last\ntwo weeks. The only question is how long will it last?\nFuhr is a dud. BOS in 4.\n\nQUE vs MON: MON in 7.\nIt seems to me that MON is much like the VAN - no chemistry.\nThe Habs seem to be not in stride. QUE in 5. \n\nCHI vs STL: CHI in 4. \nSTL should not be in the playoffs. CHI in 4.\n\nDET vs TOR: DET in 6.\nI am a diehard Leaf fan but ... It seems that the Leafs\noffense is shutting down in the last week. Can they\nturn it around against Detroit. As I recall, the last\ncouple of time these two teams met, the Leafs were pummelled.\nI don't know if Bobbie is allowed in Canada yet. If he is,\nDET in 5. If not, DET in 6.\n\nVAN vs WIN: WIN in 6.\n\nUpset in the making here. Another team with bad chemistry.\nThere is something gone foul among Linden, Momesso and Bure.\nWIN in 6.\n\nCAL vs LA: CAL in 5.\nAnybody that says that LA could possibly beet CAL does\nnot watch the Smythe a whole lot. LA is a bunch of Geritols.\nCAL in 4.\n\n\n2nd round: \n----------\n\nPITT vs WASH: PITT in 4. \nIt seems to me that Pigsburg has some egos on their team. Their\nsaving grace though is Bowman. He can put anybody in their place.\nHowever, if PIGS have a quick first round, they may be a little\ntoo high. WASH could be there for a surprise. Having said that,\nI will say PITT in 6.\n\nBOS vs MON: BOS in 6.\nMON will not be there. BOS is surprising me of late. Cam is great.\nThe couple of wins against QUE last week have sold me with the\nB's. B's in 6.\n\n\nCHI vs DET: CHI in 7.\nYikes. This will not be pretty. But DET is running like a machine\nof late. They've had a non-busy end of the season in which they played\nlike killers. DET in 6.\n\nWIN vs CAL: CAL in 5.\nCAL has a solid team, a little weak in the nets. CAL will out\nmuscle WIN. CAL in 5.\n\n3rd round: \n----------\n\nPITT vs BOS: PITT in 5. \n\nI hate PITT. My logic eludes me. The dark side will take over\nand give BOS the extra push it needs to dump PITT. There may\nbe something to this - if you think of the rivalry. BOS in 7.\nCHI vs CAL: CHI in 5. \n\nFinals:\n------\n\nPITT vs CHI: PITT in 5. \n\nNO, no, no. We have BOS vs DET. I don't know what to say\nhere. Both teams will be flying and overdue. I will go\nwith goaltending and muscle and say DET in 7.\n", "\n\n\n Hmmm...what about walks and SB? Baerga got clobbered by Alomar in OBP and\nbeat him in SLG by a lesser margin. Even putting aside any other factors,\na player with a 51 point edge in OBP is more productive than a player with\na 28 point edge in SLG. The issue has been studied before, and I doubt you\ncould come up with any convincing argument the other way.\n People see the batting average and the HR, but they don't really know \ntheir value is worth unless they've studied the issue closely. The fact is that\nBaerga ate up a LOT more outs than Alomar; while Baerga was making outs,\nAlomar was drawing walks and being on base for Carter, Winfield et.al.", "\n\nAbout 25 is correct for Numminen and Lumme.\n\n\n\nNo, Kurri's points are too low. 27 for Kurri and 28 for Sel{nne.\n\n\n\n\nThat's true. Game is so different here in Europe compared to NHL. North-ame-\nricans are better in small rinks and europeans in large rinks. An average\neuropean player from Sweden, Finland, Russian or Tsech/Slovakia is a better \nskater and puckhandler than his NHL colleague. Especially defenders in NHL\nare mainly slow and clumsy. Sel{nne has also said that in the Finnish Sm-league\ngame is more based on skill than in NHL. In Finland he couldn't get so many \nbreakaways because defenders here are an average much better skaters than in\nNHL. Also Alpo Suhonen said that in NHL Sel{nne's speed accentuates because\nof clumsy defensemen.\n\nI have to admit that the best players come from Canada, but those regulars\naren't as skilful as regulars in the best european leagues. Also top europeans\nare in the same level as the best north-americans.(except Lemieux is in the\nclass of his own). ", "\nYou have just reminded me of an old Tom Paxton song...\n\nI\"M CHANGING MY NAME TO CHRYSLER\n(Tom Paxton, 1980)\n\nOh the price of gold is rising out of sight\nAnd the dollar is in sorry shape tonight\nWhat the dollar used to get us\nNow won't buy a head of lettus\nNo the economic forecast isn't right\nBut amidst the clouds I spot a shining ray\nI caneven glimpse a new and better way\nAnd I've devised a plan of action\nWorked it down to the last fraction\nAnd I'm going into action here today.\n\nChorus:\n\n I am changing my name to Chrysler\n I am going down to Washington D.C.\n I will tell some power broker\n What they did for Iacoca\n Will be perfectly acceptable to me.\n I am changing my name to Chrysler\n I am heading for that great receiving line\n So when they hand a million grand out\n I'll be standing with my hand out\n Yes sir I'll get mine\n\nWhen my creditors are screaming for their dough\nI'll be proud to tell them all where they can go\nThey won'y have to scream and holler\nThey'll all be paid to the last dollar\nWhere the endless streams of money seam to flow\nI'll be glad to tell them all what they can do\nIts just a matter of a simple form or two\nIt's not renumeration it's a liberal education\nAin't you kind of glad that I'm in debt to you\n\nChorus\n\nSince the first first amphibians crawled out of the slime\nWe've been struggling in an unrelenting climb\nWe were hardly up and walking before money started talking\nAnd it's sad failure is an awful crime\nIt's been that way for a millennium or two\nBut now it seems there's a different point of view\nIf you're a corporate titanic and your failure is gigantic\nDown in congress there is a safety net for you.\n\nChorus...\n\n\n\nPerhaps Steven Jobs should take Paxton's advice and change his name to\nChrysler, or perhaps set himself up as an S&L, maybe Neil Bush could\ngive him a hand?\n\n================================================================\nakasacou@alfred.ccs.carleton.ca\n\nNo eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn...\n J.Morrison", "\nMel is alive and well and playing in Japan. (The Yanks let him go because\nhe was asking for too much money, and because they thought that they were\ngoing to get Barry Bonds, making Hall obsolete. Oopsie! Well, at least\nthey got O'Neill to replace the Mel-man).\n\n\n--I'm outta here like Vladimir!\n-Alan", "\n\n\tStrictly from memory, I think the Phillies were something like\n\tten games up with 12 to go, lost 10 in a row, and 11 of last 12\n\tto lose to the Cardinals. Seems impossible, but thats how I\n\tremember it. I also felt at the time that Johnny Callison of\n\tthe Phillies lost the MVP as a by-product of their swoon.\n\n\n\t\t\t\t\tjerry", "%I say buy out Henderson's contract and let him go bag groceries. Next \n%season, you'll be able to sign him for nothing. That goes for any bitching\n%ball player.", "\n\nRight Gerald. And take away Bob Probert and the Wings are dead Octopuses.\n\n\nLet's wait for the body to get cold before we start in with the eulogies\nhm? They have only lost ONE game. The game was in Detroit after all and\nPotvin did not have his best evening. Nobody that I saw thought that the\nLeafs would sweep the Wings. It looks like it might go six. The Leafs\nwill take the Wings home advantage away in the next game.\n\n\n-- ", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nAs if an aluminum stick being taken to Ulf's head is gonna solve the problem\nwith violence in the sport of hockey. How the hell can you say the guy is\na goon and justify it, with your back-assward mentality? Saying that hurting\na player will solve anyone's problems is asinine. New rules and a new \nreferee system need to be instituted. Right now, too many of the real goons\nget away with too much, because the ref is watching the play (or supposed to be:I've seen Koharski and Van Hellemond, to name a few, with their heads up their asses on a few calls) rather than keeping an eye on the goofballs behind the \nplay. Even if the linesmen were able to call all penalties, it would be an\nimprovement.", " The goalie to whom you refer is Clint Malarchuk. He was at\nthat time playing with the Sabres. His team immediately prior\nto that was the Washington Capitals. While he did recover and\ncontinue to play, I do not know his present whereabouts.\n", "And now, I interrupt your regularly scheduled news reading to bring you \nanother message sponsored by the Department of Really Mundane Statistics:\n\nI passed the final individual player stats posted here the other day through\na filter to average out games, goals, assists, points, and penalty minutes\nfor the mythical average NHL pro who played in the league this season. (Why?\nBecause it's Monday and I didn't feel like writing any REAL code...)\n\nAnyway, after I wiped out the 60-odd goalies in the list, I came up with:\n\nNHL average:\t\t55 GP 11 G 19 A 30 Pts 69 PIM\n\nThen I passed the list through a second time to come up with the players who\nhad the smallest percentage difference in each of the categories.\n\nMarty McInnis (NYI)\t56 GP (1%) 10 G (9%) 20 A (5%) 30 Pts (0%) 24 PIM (65%)\nIgor Kravchuk (EDM)\t55 GP (0%) 10 G (9%) 17 A (10%) 27 Pts (9%) 27 PIM (53%)\n\nThese two are close in games, goals, assists, and points, but are too far off\nin PIM. This leaves, as the most average player in the NHL:\n\nBobby Carpenter (WAS)\t65 GP (18%) 11 G (0%) 17 A (10%) 28 Pts (6%) 63 PIM (8%)\n\nWhat an honor.\n\nI also passed the list through with the goalies still included. Kravchuk and\nCarpenter were still in the top three, but Rob DiMaio came flying up from \nbehind to take the title:\n\nNHL average:\t\t53 GP 10 G 17 A 27 Pts 64 PIM\nIgor Kravchuk (EDM) 55 GP (3%) 10 G (0%) 17 A (0%) 27 Pts (0%) 27 PIM (50%)\nBobby Carpenter (WAS) 65 GP (22%) 11 G (10%) 17 A (0%) 28 Pts (3%) 63 PIM (1%)\nRob DiMaio (TB)\t\t54 GP (1%) 9 G (9%) 15 A (11%) 24 Pts (11%) 62 PIM (3%)\n\n\nIt's all really kind of underwhelming when you think about it.\n\n-SG", "\n\n\nI have one complaint for the cameramen doing the Jersey-Pitt series: Show\nthe shots, not the hits. On more than one occassion the camera zoomed in\non a check along the boards while the puck was in the slot. They panned\nback to show the rebound. Maybe Mom's camera people were a little more \nexperienced.\n\n", "\n\n\nThis is the new Buffalo one, the second since he's been with the\nSabres? I recall a price tag of over $700 just for the paint job on\nthat mask, and a total price of almost $1500. Ouch. \n\n\n\n", "\nFunny you should mention this; one time on HNIC Don Cherry pointed out\nVanbiesbrouck's mask. He _hated_ it. I think he said something to the effect\nof:\n\"You see? He was great last year; now he goes out and gets that dopey mask \nand he can't stop a beachball!\"\n\nYou may or may not take Cherry seriously at all, but I cracked up when I heard\nit.", "\nUp to this point, I really thought this had been written by a \npro-SDCN, anti-mediot poster blessed with a certain talent for\nsarcasm and biting remarks. Somebody like me, for instance.\nThe lurid overstatements were obviously intended to humiliate the\noriginal poster.\n\n\nBut then the scales were lifted from my eyes. Looks like Robert is\nreally being serious. Oh, well.\n\nI compare the performance of the 1992 Phillies with the 1987 edition,\nwhich had outstanding run producers at every position except SS, yet\nfinished at a frustrating sub-.500 level. The 1987 folks didn't \never amount to anything, and neither will the 1992 squad, IMHO.\n\nAny other parallels with previous years' teams for this year's\neditions (in the style of 1993 Braves = 1971 Orioles)?\n-- \nGreg \"Mockingbird\" Franklin \"Interracial mixing encompasses a lot lot more\nf67709907@ccit.arizona.edu than mingling between G7 races.\" -- robohen", "\nHowever, batters didn't use to go for strolls after bad calls to the degree\nthey do now. \n\n\nEveryone was told of the new emphasis on speeding up games. The rule that\nHirschbeck invoked has been in the books a long time.\n\n\nNobody, including Hirschbeck, ever said he was. \n\n\n\nThat's your (perhaps colored by your partisanship of the Braves)\nperception. Hirschbeck's view was that Gant was heading off for a long\nwalk, and in accordance with his instructions concerning speeding games up,\ndirected him into the batter's box.\n\n\nThe point is, based on the rulebook and the umpires' instructions, it was\n*not* an unreasonable request.\n\nThe Braves were already upset\n\n\nHad Gant done as instructed, you wouldn't have remembered the name of the\numpire. ", "\nDevallano went earlier and more extensively to the Russian strategy\nthan anyone else...and was the first GM to \"waste\" high draft choices\non young Russians...Devallano would still be GM but he succombed to\nDemers pleading to make the Oates-Federko et al trade...which is the\ndeal that sealed his fate.\n\nMurray has made some decent trades...no doubt...but these are more\ndue to the stupidity or cheapness of other teams than brilliance on\nhis part...Washington was too cheap to pay Ciccarelli so they\nessentially gave him away...and Carson was really a big anchor to\nthe team, and he was able to sucker a rookie GM to give him Paul\nCoffey for deadweight.\n\nIf Detroit still fails this year because he was one defenseman short...\nthen he will have wasted an opportunity because Manson was available,\nand he was unable to pull the trigger. It is his judgement that he\nhas enough with what he's got...Yzerman doesn't have that many more\nyears in his prime.", "NY Rangers 3 1 0--4\nWashington 0 0 0--0\nFirst period\n 1, NY Rangers, Graves 33 (Turcotte, Lowe) 9:13.\n 2, NY Rangers, Gartner 44 (Messier) 11:21.\n 3, NY Rangers, Olczyk 21 (Messier, Amonte) 14:57.\nSecond period\n 4, NY Rangers, Beukeboom 2 (unassisted) 3:30.\nThird period\n No scoring.\n\nNY Rangers: 4 Power play: 4-0\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nAmonte 0 1 1\nBeukeboom 1 0 1\nGartner 1 0 1\nGraves 1 0 1\nLowe 0 1 1\nMessier 0 2 2\nOlczyk 1 0 1\nTurcotte 0 1 1\n\nWashington: 0 Power play: 3-0\nNo scoring\n\n-----------------------------------------\nBoston 0 2 1--3\nBuffalo 0 0 0--0\nFirst period\n No scoring.\nSecond period\n 1, Boston, Leach 24 (Wesley, Oates) pp, 1:03.\n 2, Boston, Oates 44 (Douris, Poulin) 9:00.\nThird period\n 3, Boston, Douris 4 (Bourque) sh, 0:55.\n\nBoston: 3 Power play: 5-1 Special goals: pp: 1 sh: 1 Total: 2\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nBourque 0 1 1\nDouris 1 1 2\nLeach 1 0 1\nOates 1 1 2\nPoulin 0 1 1\nWesley 0 1 1\n\nBuffalo: 0 Power play: 6-0\nNo scoring\n\n-----------------------------------------\nPittsburgh 1 3 1--5\nNew Jersey 0 1 1--2\nFirst period\n 1, Pittsburgh, Francis 23 (Lemieux, Tocchet) pp, 13:25.\nSecond period\n 2, Pittsburgh, Murphy 21 (Francis, Mullen) sh, 0:38.\n 3, Pittsburgh, Francis 24 (Tocchet, Lemieux) pp, 7:14.\n 4, Pittsburgh, Jagr 33 (Tocchet, Francis) pp, 15:22.\n 5, New Jersey, Zelepukin 17 (Driver, Lemieux) pp, 19:07.\nThird period\n 6, New Jersey, MacLean 23 (Nicholls, Stevens) 6:45.\n 7, Pittsburgh, Lemieux 62 (Jagr) en, 19:51.\n\nPittsburgh: 5 Power play: 9-3 Special goals: pp: 3 sh: 1 en: 1 Total: 5\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nFrancis 2 2 4\nJagr 1 1 2\nLemieux 1 2 3\nMullen 0 1 1\nMurphy 1 0 1\nTocchet 0 3 3\n\nNew Jersey: 2 Power play: 9-1\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nDriver 0 1 1\nLemieux 0 1 1\nMacLean 1 0 1\nNicholls 0 1 1\nStevens 0 1 1\nZelepukin 1 0 1\n\n-----------------------------------------\nToronto 0 0 0--0\nPhiladelphia 2 1 1--4\nFirst period\n 1, Philadelphia, Dineen 31 (Beranek, Hawgood) 8:10.\n 2, Philadelphia, McGill 3 (Lindros, Recchi) 19:55.\nSecond period\n 3, Philadelphia, Lindros 38 (Recchi, Galley) 7:55.\nThird period\n 4, Philadelphia, Dineen 32 (Hawgood, Galley) pp, 18:39.\n\nPhiladelphia: 4 Power play: 4-1\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nBeranek 0 1 1\nDineen 2 0 2\nGalley 0 2 2\nHawgood 0 2 2\nLindros 1 1 2\nMcGill 1 0 1\nRecchi 0 2 2\n\nToronto: 0 Power play: 6-0\nNo scoring\n\n-----------------------------------------\nVancouver 0 2 1--3\nOttawa 0 0 0--0\nFirst period\n No scoring.\nSecond period\n 1, Vancouver, Plavsic 6 (Craven) 13:05.\n 2, Vancouver, Momesso 17 (Nedved, Plavsic) pp, 15:52.\nThird period\n 3, Vancouver, Bure 57 (unassisted) 13:27.\n\nVancouver: 3 Power play: 4-1\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nBure 1 0 1\nCraven 0 1 1\nMomesso 1 0 1\nNedved 0 1 1\nPlavsic 1 1 2\n\nOttawa: 0 Power play: 5-0\nNo scoring\n\n-----------------------------------------\nSt. Louis 2 0 2--4\nChicago 4 0 1--5\nFirst period\n 1, Chicago, Sutter 18 (Murphy, Chelios) pp, 1:08.\n 2, St. Louis, Janney 20 (Shanahan, J.Brown) pp, 6:49.\n 3, Chicago, Roenick 44 (Chelios, Smith) pp, 8:20.\n 4, Chicago, Roenick 45 (Sutter, Chelios) pp, 13:14.\n 5, Chicago, Graham 19 (Gilbert, Ruuttu) 13:42.\n 6, St. Louis, Janney 21 (Shanahan, Crossman) 19:38.\nSecond period\n No scoring.\nThird period\n 7, Chicago, Murphy 5 (Chelios, Belfour) 0:20.\n 8, St. Louis, Miller 21 (Hull, Janney) pp, 7:04.\n 9, St. Louis, Janney 22 (Miller, Shanahan) 19:32.\n\nChicago: 5 Power play: 8-3\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nBelfour 0 1 1\nChelios 0 4 4\nGilbert 0 1 1\nGraham 1 0 1\nMurphy 1 1 2\nRoenick 2 0 2\nRuuttu 0 1 1\nSmith 0 1 1\nSutter 1 1 2\n\nSt. Louis: 4 Power play: 4-2\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nBrown J 0 1 1\nCrossman 0 1 1\nHull 0 1 1\nJanney 3 1 4\nMiller 1 1 2\nShanahan 0 3 3\n\n-----------------------------------------\nCalgary 1 2 1--4\nSan Jose 1 0 2--3\nFirst period\n 1, Calgary, Otto 19 (Yawney, Ashton) pp, 5:29.\n 2, San Jose, Odgers 10 (Pederson, Wilkinson) 18:33.\nSecond period\n 3, Calgary, Nieuwendyk 34 (Johansson, Reese) 2:03.\n 4, Calgary, Reichel 35 (Skrudland, Berube) 12:22.\nThird period\n 5, Calgary, Ashton 7 (Otto, Fleury) 1:30.\n 6, San Jose, Pederson 9 (Odgers, Evason) 2:24.\n 7, San Jose, Odgers 11 (Gaudreau, Evason) pp, 19:30.\n\nCalgary: 4 Power play: 5-1\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nAshton 1 1 2\nBerube 0 1 1\nFleury 0 1 1\nJohansson 0 1 1\nNieuwendyk 1 0 1\nOtto 1 1 2\nReese 0 1 1\nReichel 1 0 1\nSkrudland 0 1 1\nYawney 0 1 1\n\nSan Jose: 3 Power play: 5-1\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nEvason 0 2 2\nGaudreau 0 1 1\nOdgers 2 1 3\nPederson 1 1 2\nWilkinson 0 1 1\n", "\n\n\n\n\nUm, the header said *career.* Hodapp managed about 3000 PA in his\nnine years in the majors.\n\nAs for his \"consistently over .300,\" make that \"three years in a row, \npreceded by a part-time year, plus his last year, with Boston.\" Hodapp\nonly qualified for the batting title five times. \n\nWas he injured? He retired right around his 28th birthday.\n\nAnyway, Hodapp put up flashy numbers the year *everybody* put up\nflashy numbers. That was his only really good year with a bat; \nhis other .300 years were marred by a lack of power and an inability\nto draw walks. Only 163 of those 3000 PA were bases on balls, which\ndoes not describe a feared hitter. \n\nOn the other hand, he was part of the long line of famous Cleveland 2B:\nWambsganss, Riggs Stephenson, etc.", "\n\n\n\n Alomar fans left RBI fans and Runs off this list because they are dependant\non the team. (To a large extent). If Frank Thomas hit first, he'd lose a LOT\nof RBI's; and anyways how many 2nd place hitters have you known to drive\nin 100 runs? Doesn't happen that often.....very unlikely with Devon White's\n~.300 OBP in front of you...", "The Phillies salvaged their weekend series against the Chicago Cubs\nby beating them 11-10 in a wild one at Wrigley Field Sunday\nafternoon. It was the Phils only win in the three game series, and\nwas the first time the Phillies have lost a series in the young\nseason. The Phils jumped to a 6-0 lead in the game thanks to 2\nJohn Kruk 2-run homers and two Wes Chamberlain homers. However Danny\nJackson, and the Phillies middle relief was unable to hold the lead.\nMitch Williams entered the game with the Phillies leading 8-4,\nhowever Candy Maldonado hit a ninth inning homerun to tie it. In\nthe 11th, Dave Hollins hit a three-run shot, his first of the year\nto push the Phils ahead to stay. However, in a shaky bottom of the\n11th the Cubs scored 2 runs and had the tying runner on base when\nthe Cubs pinch hit Randy Myers for Bob Scanlan (they were out of\nposition players) and Myers bunted into a double play to end the\ngame.", "I'm starting an informal poll on goalie masks. I'd like to know\nwho's mask you think looks the best. I've always like Curtis Joseph's\nof the Blues the best. Anyway, send your nominations to me, or post your\nvote here on r.s.h. My e-mail adress is: gtd597a@prism.gatech.edu\n\n\tThanks for your time.\n", "I don't know if anyone has posted a message like this yet, but i'm\ngetting really sick of espn showing the last minute of a hockey\ngame, in which the score was just tied, and then cutting out and saying\n\"sorry we can't show you this we have to show baseball tonight\" (not\neven a game. a friggin HIGHLIGHT show).\ngee, sure would have been nice to see the isles/caps in overtime.\nI live in Pittsburgh (yes i'm a pens fan) where hockey gets a lot\nof coverage. i can only imagine how a caps fan residing in Texas\nmust feel.\n", "When I left, it was 4-3, Blues with 2:00 to go! As I predicted in\n\"@#$%! I was right in the first place!!!\" Blues in 6! YES!!!\n\nOf course it's only one game -- that could be the 'Hawks stab in the face to\nwake them up -- that's what playoffs are about, on any given day... :-)", "\n\nI don't have a history handy, but I don't recall that the preponderance\nof ROY's come from winning teams. In fact, I think team performance is\ngenerally irrelevant, as almost always the most deserving candidate wins.\nAm I wrong?\n\nAnd he is not necessarily on a losing team. While the Angels' staff\nis still very weak, their everyday lineup is doing quite well, thank\nyou. Snow is playing great. Salmon is learning to make the adjustments.\nEasley appears fine, but even if he's not Flora is ready to come up.\nBetween Gonzales and Gruber they'll manage the hot corner. Polonia\nand Curtis are steady and heady. Even Myers and Orton are contributing.\n\nPersonally, I think they can finish over .500 which makes them a \nwinning team.\n\n\n\n\n--\tThe Beastmaster \n\n\n\n", "\n\n\nUm, surely you didn't intend to compare the '93 Reds with the\n29 Philidelphia A's. The Yankees were finishing 2nd to\na team that was as good as the 26-28 Yankees, while the\nYankees had aged some from their peak years. Ruth and Gehrig\ncouldn't play every position simultaneously.\n\nIMO, given the various ages of the Braves and Reds this season,\nthat the Braves will be closer to their peak, while the Reds\nhave slightly passed their peak.\n\nAlso, if you're going to compare Braves and Yankees, a more appropriate\ncomparison to the '93 Braves might be the '23 Yankees. \nAfter falling short two years in a row in exciting World Series,\n both teams won/will win the Series this year, despite the\nheroics of some old fart on the other team. \n(Casey Stengel/ Dave Winfield???)\n\n-------------------------------------------------------\nEric Roush\t\tfierkelab@\tbchm.biochem.duke.edu\n\"I am a Marxist, of the Groucho sort\"\nGrafitti, Paris, 1968\n\nTANSTAAFL! (although the Internet comes close.)", "\n\n\nI don't buy this at all. I think things are colored to a very large\ndegree of preconceived notions of who the players involved are. Try\nthis exercise:\n\nXXX is pitching today. His team scores 4 in the first inning, and 3\nin the fourth. XXX gives up 0 in the 1st through 4th. In the fifth,\nhe gives up 3 runs. In the 6th, he gives up 2 more. The score is now\n7-5, with XXX's team still on top.\n\nI contend that if XXX were Jack Morris, the assessment would be \"he is\na gutty veteran who pitches only as well as he has to to win.\"\n\nIf XXX were Mike Trmbley, the assessment would be \"he is an\ninexperienced rookie who doesn't know how to pitch. Needs more\nseasoning. Send him to AAA. Or to the spice rack.\"\n\n", "\nA-hem. Two words: Russell Davis. Playing in the cavern at Albany (AA) last\nyear (375/410/385 down the alleys and to center), Davis went .285/.355/.483\nwith 22 homers. There aren't any small parks on the road in the Eastern\nLeague, either. He's 23(!) and his MLE was .258/.308/.416, 17 HR. I have no\nfielding statistics, but from seeing him a number of times last year I'd say\nthat he's not Brooks Robinson, but neither is he Howard Johnson. Unless they\nthink they can win the pennant *this year* (which seems possible) and need\nBoggs to do it, I think they're making the same sort of mistake with Davis\nthat Boston made with Boggs, leaving him in the minors for two or three\nyears after he'd shown that he was a good hitter.\n\n\nHrm? They still have him on the roster (16 AB through the first two weeks).\nThey've just never figured out what to do with him. I suspect that he hits\nenough (especially vs. lefties) to be a reasonable shortstop. One rumor\nrunning around during spring training was that they wanted to convert\nSilvestri to be a catcher(!) because \"his body type was wrong for a\nshortstop\". You'd think that somebody in the same *division*, who plays\nBaltimore about a dozen times a year, would know better.\n\n Mike Jones | AIX High-End Development | mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com", "\nRuotsaleinen was a more than competent NHL'er...his choice of where\nto play when did not bear on his hockey playing ability.\n\nHe was crucial to the Oilers Stanley Cup victory in 1990, the one\nwithout Gretzky, because he made an Oiler power play which was\nlethargic that year until he arrived slide into overdrive. The\nOilers missed him more the following year than Kurri, and I think\nthe Oilers would have make the finals if Ruotsaleinen has stayed\naround the following season, and would have beaten Pittsburgh\nwith Ruotsaleinen and a healthy Messier...and delayed Pittsburgh's\ndynasty by a season. ", "Two Round-Trip Tickets\n\tO'Hare --> Tuscon\n\tAmerican Airlines\n\tGood thru November\n No Reasonable Offer Refused, But lets start at\n $750 for both (Paid $925)\n\n\tHopefully someone can use these as I\nhave no use for them, and don't know a way \nto get my moneys worth without going to\nTuscon again! `\n\n\tE-Mail only at this time\n\n\t tripper@cbnewsk.cb.att.com\n\n//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////\n Now why would AT&T or Butler Services \n have anything to do with my warped ramblings?!\n\nCrabby-Old-Fart Mechanical/PCB Designer w/buku CAD background,\n & still working on BSCS is looking for work! \n Wants to take a shot at ASIC/IC Layout!!\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------\n A.R.Tripp - a.k.a. tripper@cbnewsk.cb.att.com", "Tim Shippert recently posted summaries of last year's Defensive Average\nstats in terms of the Linear Weights estimated run-value of defensive\nperformances, compared to league average. I've combined those with my\nposition-adjusted MLV numbers to come up with first-approximation total\nrun values for players last year. We can use these as a springboard for\nreconsideration of the MVP award.\n\nMajor caveats: these numbers include no defensive park adjustment, so if\nSan Diego really is just a question of odd scoring or gopher holes in the\ninfield, that will cause some inaccuracies. The offensive numbers are\nposition-adjusted, but not park adjusted, so we have to deflate some and\ninflate others to be fair. Finally, we still don't know what to do about\ncatchers, and I have no idea how to evaluate the defensive contributions \nof Tony Phillips and Bip Roberts. \n\nHaving said that, there are still some surprises. Let's look National\nLeague first. All numbers in total runs contributed over the season.\n\n\tPlayer\t\tOffense\t\tDefense\t\tTotal\n\n\tSandberg\t 44\t\t 32\t\t 76\n\tBonds\t\t 67\t\t 3\t\t 70\n\tWalker\t\t 26\t\t 26\t\t 52\n\tJustice\t\t 14\t\t 33\t\t 47\n\tDaulton\t \t 44\t\t ??\t\t 44+?\n\tLarkin\t\t 36\t\t 4\t\t 40\n\tGrace\t\t 13\t\t 27\t\t 40\n\nAs I see it, these are the legitimate MVP candidates from last season.\nIf you deflate Sandberg's offense a wee bit for playing in Wrigley, you\nget essentially a dead heat. Had Bonds been his usual defensive self, it\nwouldn't have been close, but that apparently wasn't the case. Darren\nDaulton needs 22 or more defensive runs to make up the offensive difference,\nand I couldn't tell you whether that's easy or impossible. A good case \ncould be made for any of Sandberg, Bonds, or Daulton as top dude.\n\nMy personal vote: Bonds, Sandberg, Daulton, Walker, Justice.\n\n\nIn the American League:\n\n\tPlayer\t\tOffense\t\tDefense\t\tTotal\n\n\tVentura\t\t 22\t\t 34\t\t 56\n\tMartinez\t 47\t\t -1\t\t 46\n\tB. Anderson \t 21\t\t 25\t\t 46\n\tThomas\t\t 47\t\t -5\t\t 42\n\tR. Henderson\t 25\t\t 16\t\t 41\n\tRaines\t\t 17\t\t 23\t\t 40\n\tTettleton\t 33\t\t ??\t\t 33+?\n\nOK, let's see a show of hands: how many of you picked Robin Ventura as top\nplayer in the AL last year? I certainly didn't, but I'd have a hard time\narguing against him at this point. Yes, I know these numbers are only\napproximate, but that's a big gap between him and the #2 guy. Also, those\nof you who thought Rickey Henderson stank last year are out of your minds.\n\nOnce again, there's a catcher in the ointment. If calling a game is as\nimportant as it might be, 23 runs is easy to make up (or give away). TAke\na guess, folks; I don't think we can do any better than that.\n\nMy personal vote (excluding pitchers):\n\n\tVentura, Tettleton, Anderson, Martinez, Henderson.\n\nI'm a big Frank Thomas fan, but I have to admit to a bias in favor of\nbalanced offensive/defensive contribution, which should have a higher\nleverage in W/L record than an equal shift that is lots of offense with\nnegative defense.\n\nFor the record:\n\n\tCarlos Baerga\t\t 27\t\t 5\t\t 32\n\tRoberto Alomar\t\t 35\t\t -2\t\t 33\n\nForget it; it's a wash.\n\nLet me also take this opportunity to admit that I was grossly wrong regarding\nDon Mattingly's defense this past season. Don recovered brilliantly from his\nweak '90 and '91 to end up with\n\n\tMattingly\t\t -1\t\t 17\t\t 16 runs\n\nwhich is clearly an above-average first baseman. However, it's still 18 runs\nbehind Mark McGwire, 26 runs behind Frank Thomas, and 7 runs behind John\nOlerud. On the other hand, it's ahead of Rafael Palmeiro, Cecil Fielder, and\nevery other AL first baseman not yet mentioned.\n", "\n\tBzzzt! Thanks for playing. If he'd been making a right\n\tturn, the sucker would have been a couple feet off the\n\tground.\n\n\t\t\t\t\tMichael\n", "Quebec dominated Habs for first 2 periods and only Roy kept\nthis one from being rout, although he did blow 2nd goal.\nCanadians showed up in third but Nords were playing dump &\npull back most of the time. Hextall made some good saves but\nreally this one was lost in first period when nords scored 3\n& could have had 5, plus another 4 in 2nd. Canadians are dead\nmeat, they may take one or 2 but this one is over. Tee it up\nJacques, next time you might rest players & forget about 1st\nplace, welcome to the Adams division.", "BOSTON (0) AT SEATTLE (7)\n \n BOSTON AB R H BI SEATTLE AB R H BI\n RILES 2B 3 0 0 0 FELDER LF 4 0 1 1\n QUINTANA RF 2 0 0 0 COTTO DH 3 0 0 0\n GREENWELL LF 3 0 0 0 SASSER PH 1 0 0 0\n DAWSON DH 3 0 0 0 GRIFFEY JR CF 4 0 0 0\n M VAUGHN 1B 3 0 0 0 BUHNER RF 3 1 0 0\n CALDERON CF 3 0 0 0 BOONE 2B 4 2 3 2\n COOPER 3B 3 0 0 0 T MARTINEZ 1B 3 1 1 0\n JOHN VALENTIN SS 3 0 0 0 BLOWERS 3B 4 1 2 1\n PENA C 3 0 0 0 VALLE C 4 1 2 2\n VIZQUEL SS 4 1 2 0\n TOTALS 26 0 0 0 TOTALS 34 7 11 6", "\n\nTrue, coach Matikainen is ready to keep a spot for Teemu all the way\nuntil the medal games. He wants Teppo Numminen, too. And Kurri, but for\nthem the spots cannot be left open for too long. Esa Tikkanen we have\nalready. \n\nEven without these players I think we have pretty good team. Young,\nhungry, talented guys, no old players that have got everything (except\nthe gold). Yesterday's practise game, SWE-FIN 6-6, shows that the two\nworld's best hockey teams ;) are in prime shape. The Finn line\nRiihijarvi(slightly injured)-Saarikoski-Viitakoski shined. I bet these\ntwo teams are the best in the NHL, too. Roger, Roger?\n\nWhat do you people think about Team Canada with Lindros, Brind'Amour,\nBurke, Ranford, Recchi, Dineen...? Can they beat the Finns:?\n\nCoaching news: \n\n\t Alpo Suhonen (ex-Jets) to Jokerit (now verified), \n Boris Majorov (ex-Jokerit) to Tappara,\n\t Vasili Tichonov (ex-Assat) to San Jose Sharks \n (assistant coach),\n\t Sakari Pietila to Lulea (silver team in Elite-serien)", "*** NATIONAL HOCKEY LEAGUE ***\n 92-93 SEASON\n\n HOME ATTENDANCE REPORT\n\n Each Qtr. represents 10 home games, Qtr. 4 will have 11 home games.\n Neutral site games are not included. S/O indicates the number of sell-outs.\n\nTeam\nName Qtr. 1 S/O Qtr. 2 S/O Qtr. 3 S/O Qtr. 4 S/O Totals Average\n================================================================================\nBOS 140,573 5 142,694 7 142,768 6 152,468 8 578,503 14,109\nBUF 144,701 0 148,516 3 152,133 5 168,878 4 614,228 14,981\nCAL 190,125 1 196,174 3 196,982 4 217,346 5 800,627 19,527\nCHI 176,372 10 176,746 9 177,981 10 196,749 11 727,848 17,752\nDET 196,330 10 196,670 10 197,228 10 217,167 10 807,395 19,692\nEDM 139,038 0 149,422 2 152,831 2 165,384 2 606,675 14,796\nHAR 92,994 0 110,670 2 108,651 0 122,123 0 434,438 10,596\nLA 154,065 5 159,014 8 160,050 10 176,055 11 649,184 15,833\nMIN 130,710 2 140,933 3 139,986 1 160,213 4 571,842 13,947\nMON 168,097 8 169,671 10 168,784 10 190,186 11 696,738 16,993\nNJ 127,053 0 124,011 2 145,856 2 163,050 1 559,970 13,657\nNYI 114,706 1 108,502 1 123,167 3 139,946 0 486,321 11,861\nNYR 178,200 7 179,990 6 182,000 10 199,337 8 739,527 18,037\nOTT 104,713 10 105,000 10 104,602 10 115,330 11 429,645 10,479\nPHI 172,372 4 172,967 3 172,613 2 190,520 5 708,472 17,279\nPIT 160,379 6 161,475 8 161,280 6 177,705 10 660,839 16,118\nQUE 149,452 3 147,911 3 147,394 2 168,830 8 613,587 14,965\nSJ 110,890 10 110,374 8 110,120 7 121,745 10 453,129 11,051\nSTL 156,313 3 170,531 5 171,249 5 187,849 7 685,942 16,730\nTB 97,269 5 99,621 6 99,611 4 114,059 9 410,560 10,013\nTOR 155,500 4 157,779 9 157,014 8 172,888 11 643,181 15,687\nVAN 144,120 0 154,184 4 157,094 6 176,751 8 632,149 15,418\nWAS 153,209 0 163,563 1 161,479 2 171,711 2 649,962 15,852\nWIN 131,072 0 135,902 1 133,414 1 154,956 2 555,344 13,544\n \n 3,488,253 3,582,320 3,624,287 4,021,246 14,716,106", "ATTN: Those who live inthe Philadelphia Metro area...\n\nBack in September I was listening to WIP, and I remember the morning\nguys were talking with Mayor Ed Rendell. The topic of conversation\nwas a new ball park for the Phillies. The location for this new park\nwas suggested to be near 30th St Station. At the time, the mayor was\noptimisitic that in the future this could become a reality. Has\nthere been any new news on this subject or is it still a pipe dream?\nI know the city of Philadelphia has other projects ahead, such as the\nnew convention center and the upcoming Spectrum II. But it would be\nnice to see this a reality. It is planned that the Phillies leave\nthe VET and leave it solely to the Eagles (and if that's the case,\nthe Eagles should make the VET a grass stadium, but that's another\nstory). I want to see that day!", "Well, it really isn't this cut and dry, but as a Jay fan the thing I feared\nworst has happened. The Yanks sent down Williams G and are going to start\nWilliams B in CF.\n I also believe they kept Wickman and Millitello in their rotation, which is\nmuch nicer than that Kaminiecki and Mike Witt combo I thought they'd throw\nout their to the slaughterhouse because of their \"experience\". Granted, Witt\n\"might\" be good, but I think that they used rationale to keep the youngsters\nup and not given the job to Witt because he was a good pitcher and has\nexperience.\n The Yanks are showing that they are taking positive strides forwards; the\nJays with the loss of Dave Stewart are looking at gigantic holes in their\npitching staff.\n The Orioles should also be there in the end.....", "\nDon't you Americans study history...the French settled in North America\nas early or before the British...Lemieux can probably trace back his\nNorth American heritage back a lot further than most of us.", "Tonight in Boston, the Buffalo Sabres blanked the Boston\nBruins 4-0 tonight in Boston. Looks like Boston can hang\nthis season up, because Buffalo's home record is awesome!!!!\nThis is great.. Buffalo fans might get to see revenge for\nlast year!!!!! :)\n-- \ndelarocq@eos.ncsu.edu\n\n\n \n--------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n1988,1989,1990,1991 AFC East Division Champions\n1991,1992, AND 1993 AFC Conference Champions!!!!!!!! :)\n\nSquished the Fish ............... Monday Night Football, November 16, 1992..\nSQUISHED THE TRASH TALKING FISH.. AFC CHAMPIONSHIP, JANUARY 17, 1992..", "\n\nClose, but there's a number 3 also:\n\n3. have entered the game with no more than a 3 run lead and pitched\n at least one inning.\n\nIf a pitcher finishes a game which his team has won, does not get the win,\nand satisfies at least one of the three requirements, he gets a save.\n\n-Rusty\n-- ", "\nThe tater that Jack Morris served to Griffey the Younger in his first\nat-bat this year went 394 feet, if I remember right (I'll have to check\nmy scorecard at home). I think that's the longest so far in the Kingdome\nthrough the first stand (five games) there. A weak showing, despite some\npromising taterball candidates ... Ben McDonald, Rich DeLucia, and the\nrest of the Mariner bullpen ... making appearances.\n\nAnyone have the tape-measure value for Omar Vizquel's grand slam in the\nSkydome?", "Let's fill in some winners here:\n", "\nI'm not sure about Juha, but another top center, Rauli Raitanen([ss{t)\nis drafted by Jets. Raitanen had very good year and he has played in the\nFinnish nationalteam. I believe that he'll be one of the best finns in\nthis year's WC, if Matikainen(Head coach) elects him to the team.\n", "\n\n Listen guys you can talk about this the whole playoffs. I'm here in a\nsmall town in southern Illinois at school. I'm from Canada and I know\nthat cbc and tsn have games on every night, all you have to do is go to\na bar with a satellite. I have watched both games between Mon Que and\ntoronto and detroit, not to mention Van vs Winn and with cbc. They\nshow all goals from every game that evening so I haven't missed a goal\nall playoffs. Well have to go boy leafs are on Ciao.", "\n\nWhy? Do you suppose he's immune to the ravages of time? He's 37. \nIn a few years he'll be 40. He doesn't get to as many grounders as\nhe used to, and will get to fewer still as his legs go, as they do\non every human so far.\n\nRemember: Willie Mays was a defensive liability at he end of his\ncareer too. Ditto Mickey Mantle. Ditto just about everyone else who \nplayed into their late 30's.", "\nThis is a fine strategy if you expect to run away with the division.\nBut the Giants are going to need every break they can get, if they\nwant too hold that lead. I don't think they can afford to be\nlackadaisical, and say \"well it has worked pretty well so far, and\nwhile we might be able to improve the results, we don't think it is\nworth the risk\".\n\n\nThe two tend to go hand in hand...", ": \n: And, while we are on the subject, has a captain ever been traded, \n: resigned, or been striped of his title during the season? Any other \n: team captain trivia would be appreciated.\n: \n\nLuc Robitaille was captain of the Kings the first third of the season,\nuntil The Great One came back from his disc injury. It was kind of\nawkward, but Melrose appointed (anointed?) TGO as captain immediately upon\nhis return, after which he did not score a goal for something like 10\ngames.\n\nI think Luc should have remained Captain all season.", "\n\n\nIt's not a cliche, and (unlike your comments below) it's not a tautology.\nIt needn't have been true. If every pitcher in baseball were essentially\nthe same in quality (i.e. if the variance of pitching ability were much\nsmaller than the variance of batting ability), then scoring runs would be\nmuch more important than preventing them, simply because the *ability* to\nactively prevent runs would be much weaker.\n\n\nIf that's your point, you should have said so. What you in fact said was\n\"Pitching and defense win championships\", and later \"Pitching is the essence\nof baseball\". Neither of which says what you are now claiming was \"your \npoint\", and neither of which is true.\n\n\nAnd you accuse Sherri of mouthing cliches!?\n\n\nIt's not clear to me at all that this is true. In high-scoring games, the\nteam with the better offense wins a high percentage of the time. In low-\nscoring games, the split is essentially 50/50 regardless of team ability.\n\n\nI thought you said \"pitching and defense win championships\" and \"pitching is\nthe essence of baseball\".\n\n\n", "\nAnd it is not Hirschbeck's job to help Gant with any of these difficulties.\nIf Gant can't gather his concentration for whatever reason, that just makes\nhim all the more meat in the batter's box. The umpire's job is to \nmaintain flow of play. Gant is not entitled to time to regather his\nfaculties.\n\nNor is anyone else.\n\n\nAbsolutely. I think it'd be more accurate to say Gant was foolish.\n\n\nIf a disputed strike call is ample reason for a timeout, games would last\nabout nine-fifteen weeks, if Jack Morris or Dave \"Whiner\" Stieb were\npitching. A disputed strike call is not sufficient for a time out.\nSuck it up, get back in the box, and never badmouth the blue. They're\nnot going to change their mind, and you're just going to come across\nas a pinhead, which won't help you with the borderline calls.\n\nFTR - I never speak to umpires when I don't know them personally, nor\ndo I glance at them, or react to calls. As a result, I think I get more\nthan my fair share of borderline calls at the plate, because I have a\nrep of having a good eye. (Actually, there are a lot of negative\nconnotations that go with that rep, including copious questions about\nmy masculinity, party affiliation, and sexual preference.)\n\n\nIrrelevant. He was wasting time THEN.\n\n\n1. Because it's not his job.\n\n2. Because setting the precedent of cutting slack THERE can easily \n extend to those 3 hour games. (Kind of like the phantom DP.)\n\n\nGant hurt himself, and the Braves disrupted the game. Your biases are\nexposed, and I'm sitting here defending umpires and the SF Giants,\nwhich is like Phyllis Schlafly defending Gary Segura, Jack Kevorkian,\nand the Swedish Abortion Team. \n\n\nI believe Terry said the magic word. There are some truly quick ways\nto get tossed from a ballgame. For a primer, email me.\n\nGood ways to get tossed from a game:\n\n1. Ask Ken Kaiser if he got his money back from Nutri-System.\n2. Kiss Rich Garcia on the lips, and say \"Hi, Honey, I'm Home!\"\n3. Goose Eric Gregg.\n4. Ask Bruce Froemming if his parents had any children that lived.\n5. Get Naked.\n\n(Source: The Greg Spira Book of Diamond Ettiquette, as told to\n Peter Gammons. 1991, Collier Press.)\n\n", "\nMatching the Makarov offer was the only real mistake Dave King has made this\nyear. I have to wonder about the intelligence of signing a 33-year old who\nis obviously on the downside of his career to a 4-year $2 million contract. \nRisebrough matched the offer on King's request and Makarov has spent the last\nquarter of the season in the press box because his work ethic just plain\nstinks. Not to mention that he's lost a step and can no longer get himself\ninto position to make the nifty passes. \n\nI think Makarov will be available for free this offseason to anybody who agrees\nto pay his contract. He's ineffective in Calgary, but he might be able to help\na team like San Jose, with their shortage of talent. If there's no takers, and\nMakarov doesn't show improvement in training camp, I think the Flames will just\nbite the bullet and buy out Makarov's contract and release him. With his\ncurrent attitude, he is a detriment to the team.", "\n\n\n\n\n Anaheim.", "According to the hockey gurus over at ESPN, should the Islanders win tonite\nthe two teams will have the same record, but the Devils will be playing the\nPenguins. This is because the Islanders have won the season series against\nthe Devils. I think the rules for deciding a tie breaker include:\n\n1. season series\n2. goals against\n3. goals for\n\nin this order (correct me if I'm wrong). Anyone have anything to add?\n\nCraig", "Kevin Mitchell's sacrifice fly in the eighth off Brett Saberhagen plated \npitch runner Cesar Hernandez to give the Reds a 2-3 come-from-behind victory over \nNew York. Hernandez ran for pinch-hitter Cecil Espy, who got the inning started \nwith a solid single to right, moved to second on \"Bob\" Kelly's infield sneaker\ndown the third-base line, and to third on Jeff Branson's well-placed bunt--a \nrare show of excellent execution by the recently hapless Reds offense.\n\nCincinnati trailed 2-0 after starter Tim Pugh blinked in the fifth. He had only \ngiven up one hit in the first four innings, a fourth-inning lead-off double\nby Vince Coleman. Coleman was left stranded at third by Bobby Bonilla after\nJoe Orselak popped to short. Orselak was pinch-hitting for Eddie Murray who \nargued plate umpire Kellogg's inside strike by \"drawing the line\" (really, he\nshould know better than that). Murray, and later manager Jeff Torborg ended up getting\ntossed.\n\nThe Mets' fifth started with a Howard Johnson's first-pitch homer. Pugh must \nhave been slightly shaken, as he was popped on the next pitch by Jeff Kent's\nsingle, then a Ryan Thompson liner to left was (surprise) misplayed by Mitchell\nand turned into a RBI triple. Catcher Hundley's grounder to the drawn-in Branson\nfailed to bring Thompson in, then the play of the game occured:\n\nSaberhagen was due up, so Reds pitching coach Larry Rothschild met with the infield\nto discuss the possibility of a suicide squeeze. They called it perfectly:\nThompson was hung out to dry after Pugh's first-pitch pitch out and the threat ended.\n(Isn't the NATIONAL LEAGUE great??)\n\nThe Reds picked up 2 runs in the seventh to knot up the game. After Barry Larkin's\nground out, Mitchell, Chris Sabo, and Randy Milligan got back-to-back-to-back\nsingles--the third scoring Mitchell. Reggie Sanders then plated Sabo with a long\nfly to center. A double by Oliver might have scored runner Dan Wilson, but\nthird base coach Dave Bristol threw up the stop sign too late--Wilson himself was\nhung out to dry killing the Reds rally.\n\nRob Dibble came on in the ninth and pitched shakily. With two outs and a runner\non second Bonilla came to the plate and all I could think of was the Sunday game\nin late August last year when Bonilla's three-run dinger slapped a loss on\nDibble and spelled the beginning of the end for Cinci's season. Bonilla ended\nup walking, and HoJo flied out to left to give the Reds their first win in a \nweek, and earned Dibble his third save in as many opportunities. The win went\nto Steve Foster (1-2) who got in what must be an ego-boosting two perfect innings\nwork, striking out three. Saberhagen (2-1) got the loss--though I'm a bit\nsurprised he even pitched in the eighth. I'll take it, though.\n\nThe Reds are now 3-9, still the worst team in baseball with the Royals victory\ntoday. The Mets are 6-5.\n\n\nThe Line:\n\nNew York Mets\n\n\t\t\tAB\tR\tH\t\tK\tBB\tLO\n-----------------------------------------------|----------------------------\nColeman lf\t\t4\t0\t1\t\t0\t0\t0\nFernandez ss\t\t4\t0\t0\t\t1\t0\t0\t\nMurray 1b\t\t1\t0\t0\t\t0\t0\t0\n Orselak ph/rf\t\t3\t0\t1\t\t0\t0\t0\nBonilla rf/1b\t\t3\t0\t0\t\t2\t1\t1\nJohnson 3b\t\t3\t1\t1\t\t1\t0\t2\nKent 2b\t\t\t3\t1\t1\t\t1\t0\t0\nThompson cf\t\t3\t0\t1\t\t1\t0\t0\t\nHundley c\t\t3\t0\t0\t\t2\t0\t0\nSaberhagen p\t\t3\t0\t0\t\t0\t0\t0\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTotals\t\t\t30\t2\t5\t\t8\t1\t3\n\nHR-Johnson (off Pugh, leading off fifth, 0-0 pitch) \n3b-Thompson (off Pugh, in fifth, 0 out, 1 RBI, picked-off)\n2b-Coleman (off Pugh, in fourth, 0 out, 0 on, stranded at third)\nRBI-Johnson, Thompson\n\n\nCincinnati Reds\n\n\t\t\tAB\tR\tH\t\tK\tBB\tLO\n-----------------------------------------------|----------------------------\nKelly cf\t\t4\t0\t1\t\t0\t0\t0\nBranson 2b\t\t3\t0\t1\t\t0\t0\t0\nLarkin ss\t\t3\t0\t0\t\t0\t1\t0\nMitchell lf\t\t3\t1\t1\t\t0\t0\t0\n Dibble p\t\t0\t0\t0\t\t0\t0\t0\nSabo 3b\t\t\t4\t1\t1\t\t1\t0\t2\nMilligan 1b\t\t3\t0\t3\t\t0\t0\t0\n Wilson pr/c\t\t0\t0\t0\t\t0\t0\t0\nSanders rf\t\t2\t0\t0\t\t0\t0\t1\nOliver c/1b\t\t3\t0\t1\t\t1\t0\t1 \nPugh p\t\t\t1\t0\t0\t\t1\t0\t0\n Roberts ph\t\t1\t0\t0\t\t1\t0\t0\n Foster p\t\t0\t0\t0\t\t0\t0\t0\n Espy ph \t\t1\t0\t1\t\t0\t0\t0\n Hernandez pr/lf\t0\t1\t0\t\t0\t0\t0\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTotals\t\t\t28\t3\t9\t\t4\t1\t5 (*)\n\n(*) Oliver was stranded in the seventh after his double when Wilson was run down.\n\n2b Oliver (off Saberhagen, 2 out, runner on first, stranded)\nRBI-Milligan, Sanders, and Mitchell\nSac-Branson\nSF-Sanders and Mitchell\nIBB-Larkin\nGDP-Larkin\n\n\nNew York\t0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 ---- 2-5-0\nCincinnati\t0 0 0 0 0 0 2 1 x ---- 3-9-0\n\n\nPitching\n\n\t\t\tIP\tR\tER\tH\tK\tBB\nNEW YORK\nSaberhagen (L 2-1)\t8\t3\t3\t9\t4\t1\n\nCINCINNATI\nPugh\t\t\t6\t2\t2\t4\t4\t0\nFoster (W 1-2)\t\t2\t0\t0\t0\t3\t0\nDibble (S 3)\t\t1\t0\t0\t1\t1\t1\n\n\nPB- Wilson\nEjected-Murray, Torborg\n\nUmps-Kellogg/Relliford/Runge/DeMuth\n\nAttendance 32,435\nT- 2:23\n\n\nComing up:\nThe Reds travel to Pittsburgh for three then continue on into Chicago for\nthree. Next game is Tuesday at 7:35, expected to pitch are Belcher (0-1)\nvs. Tomlin (0-0).\n", "\nOn the other hand, I'm hard pressed to think of any other real mistakes\nFereirra made. Imagine indeed, but then again we have the benefit of\nhindsight.\n\nLet's say that in the view of the Sharks' upper management, the attempt\nto trade Kisio was a major factor in the decision to fire Feirerra.\nI'm inclined to take exactly the opposite view: they should have kept\nhim...he's obviously the luckiest man in hockey! (Wonder what\nsacrifice he made to the Muse of Fax? (His job, I guess.))\n\nhave fun\ngak\n", "Sherri Nichols writes\n\nOr a young Don Bordello...\n\n\nThere's a strong possibility that the Bucs have absolutely no other catching \nprospects in the minors at this point -- at least nobody ready for any serious \nAAA/majors duty. The main reason they might have stayed with Prince could be \njust age, especially if Spanky was creeping toward his mid-30s or something.\n \nAll things considered, though, I'd be a lot more comfortable with Spanky behind \nthe plate than Prince. Isn't there decent backup backstop out there looking \nfor work?\n\n", "\nDan Johnson-\n\nYou don't know me, but take this hand anyway. Bravo for GO(DS) = 0. \nBeautiful! Simply beautiful!", "\nAgreed here...I'll never forget Dan Kelly calling the play-by-play in the '87\nCanada Cup. He was masterful!\n\nAnd Danny Gallivan will _never_ be replaced; even now when I watch HNIC I\nremember his voice...when I see an Al MacInnis or Al Iafrate (hey, what's with\nthese guys named Al who can shoot??) shot from the point I still think\n\"blistering blast\"...THN had a tribute to Gallivan in the issue following his\ndeath; in the story they included a quote from one of the games he did. It\nwent: \n\n\"It appears Risebrough has pugnaciously construed that check,\" he said, \"and \nwill undoubtedly make a visitation to the box of punition.\"\n\nClassic, vintage Gallivan! He's sorely missed. So here's to two of the best\nthere was and best that ever will be.\n", "Wednesday's game of Beloved Yakult Swallows\n\n(At Jingu, 38,000)\nHanshin Tigers 000 006 000 |6\nBeloved Swallows 100 000 000 |1\n\n W - Kasai (2-0). L - Ito (0-1).\n----------------------------------------------------------------\nCENTRAL LEAGUE STANDING\n==========================\n W L T Pct. GB\nHiroshima Carp 7 2 0 .778 --\nChunichi Dragons 7 3 0 .700 0.5\nHanshin Tigers 6 4 0 .600 1.5\nHated Giants 4 5 0 .444 3.0\nBeloved Swallows 3 7 0 .300 4.5\nYokohama BayStars 2 8 0 .200 5.5\n------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n--", "\n\n Well I think whenever ESPN covers the game they do a wonderful job. But\n what I don't understand is that they cut the OT just show some stupid\n baseball news which is not important at all. Then I waited for the scores\n to comeon Sportscenter, but they talk about Baseball, basketball and \n football. Then they showed Penguine highlight and went back to stupid\n basketball. Finally they showed a highlight of the OT goal but that\n was like 30 sec. I think they should give more attention to NHl during\n the playoffs then talking about boring basketball games..\n\n I guess it is NHL's fault too for leaving ESPN. Hope things improve\n by next season...\n\n COBRA\n\n\n-- \n", "Here are my predictions (try not to laugh hysterically)\nSomebody save this so I can laugh when I win my own pool.\nI don't have prizes, but we all love BRAGGING RIGHTS, so winner takes them.\n\nAlso. If somebody has some sort of scoring system let me know.\nI was thinking 1 for 1st round victories, 2 for second, 3 for 3rd, 4 for 4th\nBut we may get alot of ties. Any ideas?\n\n\n\n1. BUFFALO\n2. MONTREAL\n3. PITTSBURGH\n4. WASHINGTON\n5. CHICAGO\n6. TORONTO\n7. WINNIPEG\n8. LOS ANGELES\n\n9. MONTREAL\n10.PITTSBURGH\n11.CHICAGO\n12.WINNIPEG\n\n13.MONTREAL\n14.CHICAGO\n\n15. MONTREAL", "\nAh well, another Brian Sutter team is ground into the dirt with intensity\nduring the regular season and then is burned out by playoff time.\nYah Fuhr has been awesome so far, but really you'd think Sutter would have\nlearned his lesson about pushing his team too far during the regular season.", "\n\n\nWHO THINKS THE ASTROS ARE GOING PLACES???\nTHEY'RE CURRENTLY FIRST PLACE.\nTHEY'RE 5-4, 5-1 ON THE ROAD! \n", "\nActually it was in the third period, his return did bring a spark to the\ncrowd, and to the players, who played awesome defense in the third.\n\n\nYou forgot about Gretzky. If any of these guys start scoring, the Kings\nwill be unstoppable, if they continue the great defensive work as well.\n\n\nStauber will be in net on Tuesday. Hopefully he will provide another\nstellar performance and earn the name Robb \"Stopper\" Stauber.\n\n\nI believe this is how they are...I know it is Gretzky and Sandstrom, but he\nhas been putting a number of people on left. Also the Carson, Robataille\nKurri line once ignited, will light the fire of the other lines.\n(Hopefully!)\n\nIt is evident that the scoring drought is getting to Luc, after his slight\nbreakaway in the third (I think) he was steamed on the bench, this emotion\nmight help him break his streak. Also, I have noticed Blake has had a few\nreally good chances to score, but has fanned, or shot wide. Is the injury\nstill affecting him? \n\n\nThe E\n D\n G\n E", "\n\n \nJust curious, Roger, but since you have such a vast knowledge of the\ngame and the league, how come you haven't made a living out of it?\nThere must be a lot of demand for expertise in the field. I'm sure\nyou'd be of great help to, say, the Leafs as an assistant coach or\na scout. Or maybe try a career as a reporter or tv commentator...\n \nI might be wrong, of course, and you already have.", "\nWetteland comes off the DL on April 23rd, and will be evaluated on the 24th.\nHe is throwing well, and without pain on the side.\n\nDeShields is not on the DL. He suffered from the chicken pox and lost\n(this is the official total) 12 pounds. He will be back, hopefully,\nnext week.\n\nWalker will be back this tonight or tomorrow...", "know \nhe \nnow.\n\nAnd Michael Jackson, Jack Nicholson, and Bill Cosby wouldn't be \nmaking near as much money if they weren't entertainers. So what's\nyour point?\n\nfor a \nhurting.\n\nWill they? You can't usually take away one of the team's best\nplayers and still expect them to win. Or do you think the \nPirates will continue to win without Barry Bonds.\n\nathletic \nworking\n\nSo. Again, Jack Nicholson gets paid much more than most hard\nworking citizens (and much more than Rickey Henderson for that\nmatter). \n\nwhen the\nmillion--also,\n\nThe reason the latter often happens is that many of these folks\nstart making the real big salaries late in their career, when they\nare on the decline. (There are exceptions, of course. Dave Parker\nfell apart after making his first million because he put most\nof that million up his nose.)\n", "One way ticket (return leg of roundtrip ticket) for female traveler\n\n\n\nSan Francisco ==> St. Louis ==> Philadelphia\n\n\nMay 21, 1993 (Friday) leaves SFO 10:25 am\n arrives Phila. 8:43 pm\n\n\n\n.............$150 or best offer\n\n\n", "\n\nMy vote goes to Andy Moog 1st, Belfour 2nd, Vanbiesbrouck 3rd\n\nThe Bruin's are hot at just the right time !!!!!\n\n\nrich beskosty", "\nBe patient. He has a sore shoulder from crashing into the wall.\nThe Cards will give him all the time he needs to come around.\nHe is their full time centerfielder.\nHe will not however steal as often this year as he is hitting\nclean-up.", "\n\nMy vote goes for the ('75?) Indians with their all-red uniforms.\nBoog Powell once said he felt like a big red blood clot.", "Hockey-tipset, V}ren 1993:\n\t ==========================\n\n *#*#*#*#* Vinnare av Hockey-tipset 1993... Per Bengtson!!! Grattis! *#*#*#*#*\n\n Slutst{llning:\t\t1. Per Bengtson\t\t15\n\t\t\t2. Lars Andersson\t13\n\t\t\t3. Anders Engwall\t11\n\t\t\t4. Staffan Axelsson\t10\n\t\t\t Patrik ]sander\t10\n\t\t\t6. Hannu L A Hietanen\t 9\n\t\t\t Ingvar Khan\t\t 9\n\t\t\t8. noran@cs.tut.fi\t 8\n\t\t\t Jan Stein\t\t 8\n\t\t\t Roger Wennstr|m\t 8\n\t\t\t11.Lars Thore Aarhus\t 7\n\t\t\t Fredrik Nissen\t 7\n\t\t\t Marek Repinski\t 7\n\t\t\t Lars Wiklund\t\t 7\n\t\t\t15.Lennart Hedenstr|m\t 6\n\n Vinnare och lycklig {gare av en FBK-mugg {r allts} Per Bengtson,\n kometen som ledde hockeytipset 92 vid halvtid men som sedan fick\n ge vika f|r Anders Engwall i slutspurten.\n\n De tre f|rsta lyckades pricka in den viktiga fr}ga 1.4 SM-guld till Bryn{s.\n Kanske var det v{l sv}rt att tippa slutspelet ocks} men man ser att\n om den j{mna finalen mellan Lule} och Bryn{s ist{llet hade slutat till\n Lule}s f|rdel, s} hade det varit samma vinnare i alla fall.\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n H{r f|ljer de korrekta svaren. Siffran inom parentes anger hur m}nga\n som hade tippat detta. * anger Per Bengtsons vinnande rad.\n\n\n\t1. Elitserien\n\n\t1.1 Tippa den slutgiltiga tabellen.\n\n\t 1. V{ster}s (7)\n\t 2. Bryn{s (2)\t*\n\t 3. Malm| (4)\n\t 4. F{rjestad (5)\n\t 5. MoDo (6)\n\t 6. Lule} (6)\t*\n\t 7. Leksand (2)\t*\n\t 8. Djurg}rden (2)\t*\n\n - - - - - - - - - -\n\t 9. HV 71 (11)\t*\n\t10. R|gle (12)\t*\n\n\t\n\t1.2 Vilka 4 av de 8 kvartsfinalisterna g}r vidare till semifinal?\n\n\t Djurg}rden (4)\n\t Lule} (9)\n\t Bryn{s (6)\t*\n\t Malm| (13)\t*\n\n\t1.3 Vilka 2 lag m|ts i final?\n\n\t Lule} (5)\n\t Bryn{s (4)\t*\n\n\t1.4 Vilka blir Svenska M{stare 92/93? (3p)\n\n\t Bryn{s (4)\t*\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n\t2. Allsvenskan\n\n\t 1. V{stra Fr|lunda (11)\t*\n\t 2. Huddinge (3)\t*\n\t\t\t\t\n\t - - - - - - - - - - -\n\n\t 3. Bj|rkl|ven (5)\n\t 4. AIK (5)\t*\n\n\t - - - - - - - - - - -\n\n\t 9. Team G{vle (1)\n\t 10. Boden (0)\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------", "\nKevin Todd is an Oiler and has been one for months. How closely do you follow\nthe Devils, anyway? Jeez....", "Cheap airline ticket to L.A. on April. 21 (tuesday) from Indi. or\n Chicago and return about in 10 - 14 days wanted. ", ":\nIt's i before e except after c, and in people named kEIth.\n\nLearn to spell. It's Ryne.\n\nHow can Brooks be # 6? I think he would at least be ahead of Ron Santo.\n\n\n\n\n***********************\n1a) Darren Daulton * MVP 1993\n***********************\n", "\nYes. But this is *irrelevant*. You're talking about averages, when we\nhave lots of information about THIS PLAYER IN PARTICULAR to base our\ndecisions on.\n\nI might as well say \"We know that very, very few people are more than 7 feet\ntall, so chances are that Manute Bol is really only 6 foot 4.\"\n\n\nWhy isn't Lopez likely to hit that well? He hit that well last year (after\nadjusting his stats for park and league and such); he hit better (on an\nabsolute scale) than Olson or Berryhill did. By a lot.\n\nAs for rushing... If there really is a qualitative difference between the\nminors and the majors that requires a period of adjustment (and I don't\nbelieve there is), then wouldn't you rather waste Lopez's 22-year old good\nseason than his 23-year old very good season or his 24-year-old excellent\nseason? The sooner you get him acclimated, the more of his prime you get to\nuse.\n\n\nThe point was not that 17 AB is a significant sample, but rather that he\nhadn't done anything in spring training to cause even a blockhead manager\nto question whether his minor league numbers were for real, or to send him\ndown \"until he gets warmed up\".\n\n\nMost players are *never* ready for the bigs. What does this have to do\nwith Javy Lopez?\n\n\nSee above. \n\n\nBut I could apply the same reasoning to Frank Thomas or Barry Bonds. Most\nplayers aren't that good, so they probably won't be that good this year\neither.\n\n\nAnd demonstrated inabilities to hit their way out of a soap bubble.\n\n\nNot superstars, not stars, not even good players. Maybe average, if we're\nbeing charitable.\n\n\nUmmm. Justice is a very fine hitter. Pendleton might have another big year\nin his bat, but he might also spend the season in Hamstring Hell. Gant is a\nbig question mark. The Bream/Hunter platoon is decent (not excellent) and\nhas rotten OBP or SLG (depending on who's in). Blauser is a very valuable\nbat... for a shortstop.\n\n\n\nWanna bet? The difference between Lopez's bat and Olson/Berryhill could be\n20 or 30 runs over the course of the season. Given a choice between a player\nwith experience and a player who can play, I'll take the latter every time.\n\n\nJust like Keith Mitchell did?\n\n\nThat was me, and you so far your only counter-proposal is that they\nreally don't understand how good Lopez is, or overvalue experience,\nor some combination of the two. I think my interpretation was more\nflattering to the organization.\n\n\n[Well-argued but inflammatory reply deleted.]\n\n", "\n: \tThis comes indirectly from Al Morgani who works in the studio\n: for ESPN hockey.\n[Some text deleted]\n: \tESPN is under contractual obligation to show baseball and COULD NOT\n: broadcast the OT of the hockey game. Next year, ESPN2 will be introduced so \n: baseball fans can watch baseball and hockey fans can watch hockey.\n\nI hadn't heard about this new ESPN2. When is this new network\nsupposed to start? Sounds great to me! (as long as my cable co.\noffers it)\n", "\nYou started it...\n\n\nYou most certainly did!\n\n\nSabo is clearly a better hitter than Samuel. Yet you would pinch-hit\nSamuel because you predict that Samuel will be a clutch hitter and\nSabo will be a choke hitter. Right? I'd call that \"predicting the\nfuture\".\n\n\nRight. I would have used aspects of prior performance which have been\nshown to be consistent in the past. Overall performance, L/R splits,\neven matching hitting/pitching styles. All of these will give me some\nadvantage if used properly.\n\nEVEN IF ALL ELSE WERE EQUAL, there would be no advantage gained by\nlooking at past clutch performance. And in this case, everything else\npointed to Sabo.\n\n\nThat comes down to the same thing. When Perez left Sabo in, he\nwas predicting the future, the next AB. He was predicting that\nSabo was more likely to get a hit than Samuel.\n\nBy supporting the swap, you are predicting the opposite.\n\n\nWell, yes. You are aware of its existance. You claim to be incapable\nof understanding it (though I suspect you are simply unwilling). Yet\nyou rather forcefully state the opposite. You don't seem to think the\nwork is worth reading (yet you obviously feel the topic is important).\nI'd say this is insulting.\n\n\nRIGHT! This is the beef. It has not proven to be an indicator of\nfuture performance under *any* circumstances. At least none that\nwe've been able to come up with. If you know of some where it *is* an\nindicator of future performance, please let us in on your secret.\n\n\nMost certainly. As I have repeatedly stated, if you can come up with\na study which even *hints* at a consistent clutch ability, I would\nlove it! However the straightforward attempts at such a study have\nall failed miserably.\n\n\nWell, it was a stupid argument. (Are you honestly debating that???)\nSure, we know Sabo didn't get a hit. We have no idea whether Samuel\nwould have done any better or not. One AB most certainly doesn't\nprove anything!\n\n\nIs this simply a prediction for Chris Sabo for this year? Or is this\na prediction for *all* batters who have, over the past few years, hit\n(xxx amount?) worse in the clutch than overall?\n\nIf you mean the first, then as you say, we'll just have to wait and\nsee. But the second is a much stronger statement. In fact, it\nsuggests a rule. We can then test this rule on past data to see if it\nworked for recent years. I think you will agree that if the rule\ndidn't work last year or the year before, that it is unlikely to do\nany better this year. Right?\n\n\nI'm not going to get into case analysis. Sure, you can find somebody\nwho hit poorly from '89-'91 and then hit poorly in '92 as well. You\ncan also find those who hit poorly from '89-'91 and then hit *well* in\n'92.\n\n\nGambler's fallacy. Unless there is reason to expect consistency, a\nrun proves nothing. Can you give us a reason to expect clutch BA to\ncorrelate from one year to the next? I've seen a detailed study of\nwhy I *shouldn't* expect it to correlate.\n\n\nThe \"stupid\" was in reference to a statement which *was* stupid. (And\nI don't see how you can deny it.) As for \"total idiot\"? Yes. If you\nprove yourself unwilling to even *consider* evidence that might\nsuggest that you are wrong, I would say the term fits nicely.\n\nSo tell me? Does the term fit? Or do you have an open mind?", "So what's the deal with Bill Wirtz? Apparently, the Blackhawks - St.\nLouis game was a standing room only sell out as usual, but the Hawks\nreported the attendace as 16,199. Gee, I wonder if Wirtz is planning to\nuse this as justification for continuing to keep home games off of TV?\nWhat a schmuck.\n\nIn other TV news, the Penguins announced yesterday that they will have 3\nfewer broadcast TV games, and will have 22(!) games on some sort of\nsubscription / pay-per-view system. Yuck.", "\n\nActually I admired the spirit of the fan at the Cubs opener several years\nago who held up a sign that said \"Wait Till Next Year\".\n", "Well now that the hawks have won the division the road is a little\neasier for the playoffs. Let toronto and detroit beat the hell out of\neach other while Chicago sweeps st.louis. That just makes it easier in\nthe second round with all the rest they will get and tor/det getting\nnone. For the conf. champ they will have a hard time versus the division\nbut that div. will be pretty battered also so the advantage goes to the\nHawks again. Then bring pitt. and sure the Hawks will probably lose but\nits better to get that far and lose than to not go.", "\nDEG has many german-born forwards in the team. In fact the majority of players\nare german-born. 1992-93 DEG had 11150 average in 11800 spectator arena.\n\nMy Possible-NHL(European league)-site list:\nSwitzerland : Berne, Zurich (Lugano and 1-2 others)\nGermany : Dusseldorf, Cologne, Berlin, Munich (Mannheim, Rosenheim)\nSweden : Stockholm, Gothenburg (Malmo, Gavle)\nFinland : Helsinki (Turku, Tampere)\nItaly : Milan\nFrance : Paris (Chamonix, Ruoen?)\nNorway : (Oslo)\nAustria : (Vienna, Villach)\nChech : (Prag)\nSlovakia : (Bratislava)\nRussia : (Moscow, St. Petersburg)\nGreat Britain: ?\nNetherlands : ? ", "\n\n\nYeah, it's the second one. And I believe that price too. I've been trying\nto get a good look at it on the Bruin-Sabre telecasts, and wow! does it ever\nlook good. Whoever did that paint job knew what they were doing. And given\nFuhr's play since he got it, I bet the Bruins are wishing he didn't have it:)\n", "...\n...\n\n\n\n\n\nWe must have been watching two different games. The Devil had one hand on\nMario's elbow and pulling the elbow caused Mario to fall so the call was\nappropriate.\n\nUsing clueless people to substantiate your claims doesn't give me a lot of\nconfidence in your call either. Next time consider getting a second opinion\nfrom a clueful observer. Or maybe all those available disagreed.\n\n\n\n\n\n", "Have you ever noticed that after a hockey player has been interviewed\nin between periods on a tv game. That they usually get a goal or\nan assist. can you explain this or is it that they usually talk \nto stars more than regular players which explains the hight \npercentage of results after.\n\nJust wondering how everybody else thinks about this or if they dont \ncare about this trivial nonsense.\nttyl Tom", "You can't call time when there's a play in progress.\n\nRyan Robbins\nPenobscot Hall\nUniversity of Maine", "\nThis brings up a question I asked myself (no answer) when it was mentionned\nthat the NHL could expand in Europe.\n\nWould most of the North-americans now playing in the NHL be willing\nto play for a team in Europe?\n\nI do not think that the majority of hockey players are necessarily\ninterested in expanding their cultural experience to that level.\n(I know I would but I am not a pro hockey player)\n\nWhen one recalls some players remarks in the last few years it makes\nme wonder how a European expansion could be achieved. Remember these:\n\n- Lindros did not want to play in Quebec (for more than $ reasons)\n- Nicholls ... in Edmonton.\n- R. Courtnall wanted to be traded to LA only.\n- C. Lemieux said he would refuse to go to Edmonton earlier this year.\n\nI know there are many non-cultural reasons behind these but there is more:\n\n- Some american players who played for the Expos complained about the french\n fact and that the city was not quite like the other US cities. One\n players' wife trying to make her point went on to complain that she could\n not even find her favorite brand of nacho chips in Montreal.\n\nAnybody knows what happened when all these US football players moved\nto London, Spain, etc .. for the one year of that new football league\n(2 years ago?)\n\nI wonder what the players association thinks about going to Europe.\n\nMyself I would like to see some European teams, but what would be \nthe best way to do it? ", "\nI too think that Joseph has had a GREAT year and should be considered for the\nVezina. I think Barrasso and Joseph should be the two strongest candidates\nthis year. I don't believe ALL of the hype that Roy, Belfour and now Potvin\nreceive for their goaltending. I do think that they are great in the nets,\nbut I would rather have Curtis, Tommy or Fuhr in the nets during this years\nplayoffs. The big name tenders always seem to have a strong defense in front\nof them and the goaltenders get the most credit. I would rather face 25 shots\na game, than have to rely on Joseph saving 35, but if the goalie is going to\nface 35 shots, I would rather have Joseph or Barrasso facing them.\n\n-Jay\n\nps Go Quebec!!! And I know that McLean and several others should be mentioned\nas candidates for this years Vezina, but I am partial to Joseph and Barrasso\nthis season.\n", "\nWell, had you been a bit less exuberant in both the tone and substance of\nyour predictions, the responses would probably have been a bit more\nmeasured. Be that as it may....\n\nClemens is always in this form, and Viola isn't really performing beyond\nwhat might reasonably have been expected. How do you know that the Sox are\nresponding to them, and not to Al Bumbry, Hobson, or (my most likely\nsuspect) new hitting coach Mike Easler? I certainly am more likely to give\nEasler credit for Mo Vaughhn's hot start than Clemens or Viola.\n\nThis was the optimistic scenario, but not unreasonably so. He hasn't shown\nmuch power yet, though.\n\nHow can you tell that Dawson is providing the leadership? Perhaps it's\nCalderon? Perhaps it's Clemens and Viola? Maybe Hobson is finally showing\nthose people skills he was supposed to have when they hired him. Or maybe\nit's all a myth. And Dawson has been hitting reasonably well, but not as\nwell as Greenwell, Vaughn, Cooper, or Fletcher.\n\nIn three games. Why don't we look at this one again in, say, July?\n\nA bit better than could reasonably have been expected. But don't forget that\nZupcic looked like Wade Boggs lite for about 75 AB's last year. Beware of\nsmall sample sizes. Still, if Fletcher hits as well as he did last year he'd\nbe a great improvement over any Sox leadoff hitter from last year. Be aware\nthat his career numbers seem to indicate that he puts up good numbers as\nlong as he doesn't have to make more than 300 AB or so in a year.\n\nUmmm...sorry, no. I can buy the \"in the field\" part, and I think he'll be\nbetter at the plate than the 1992 Boggs, but in general Cooper, while he'll\nbe a pretty good hitter, couldn't carry Boggs' jockstrap. With a little\nluck, he could be the fourth or fifth best 3B in the AL (Martinez, Boggs,\nVentura, and Palmer will all be better).\n\n\nSee, here is where you make that quick left turn off into the aether. .500\nis plausible, third is not unlikely, but phrases like \"could run away with\nthe division\" are likely to get you a visit from the men in the white\ncoats. It's not really clear that their staff is better than last year. If\nRussell does well, Darwin doesn't go on the DL, and Hesketh doesn't pitch\njust barely well enough to avoid losing his spot in the rotation, they could\nbe better. On the other hand, if Hesketh pitches miserably and they're too\nstupid to move him to the pen and bring up Conroy or somebody, Fossas\ncontinues to pitch dismally but they keep giving him innings becasue he's a\nlefty, and Russell explodes they could be pretty bad.\n\n Mike Jones | AIX High-End Development | mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com", "I personally will never forget Mike Schmidt's home run against the\nExpos in 1980 that decided the NL East. It was also his career high\n48th. ", "\nIt's called 'contractual obligations' with Major League Baseball.\nI would've liked to see the OT of the Isles-Caps game, but I understand\nwhere ESPN is coming from. ESPN is committed to a single telecast a night\nand everything after that is a bonus.", "Does anyone know the status of Jeffries or Arocha?\n", "\nWell, they just said that Franco will probably go on the DL tomorrow.\n(They mentioned a career minor leaguer as the \"warm body\" who would go \nalong...I forget.)\n\nAlso, when answering questions about the rotation, Coleman (SD \nbroadcaster) said that Hurst is gone in about a month-month and a half, \nwhich is when he should finish re-hab.\n\nLater\n\nDennis", "Smythe Division\n---------------\n\nVancouver vs. Winnipeg - Jets in 7\nThe Jets have played the Canucks tough the last three games. Everyone is\nhealthy for the Jets. I'm biased. :)\n\nCalgary vs. Los Angeles - Flames in 6\nFrom what I have seen, the Kings have looked flat lately. I just can't see\nthem getting by the Flames.\n\nFinal- Jets in 6.\nThe Jets haven't lost to the Flames in '93. They will, but it will be a\nclose series that will come down to how well Roberts has recovered. I\ndon't think he'll be 100%, and while it will help, it won't be enough.\n\nNorris Division\n---------------\n\nChicago vs. St. Louis/Minnesota\nChicago in 6 against the Blues, 7 against the Stars. \n\nDetroit vs. Toronto - Wings in 6.\nThe Wings should be able to shutdown Gilmour and Andreychuk. Chelvadae is\nmore experienced than Potvin.\n\nFinal - Hawks in 7. Brutal series. Probert and Chelios will go at it.\nBelfour is better than Chelvadae, IMHO.\n\nConference Final - Hawks in 6. It hurts, but the Hawks are more experienced,\nand that will carry them through to the final.\n\nPrince of Wales Conference\n--------------------------\n\nAdams Division\n--------------\n\nBoston vs. Buffalo - Bruins in 6.\nB's can check, Juneau is darn good, and Neely. The Sabres rely too much\non Lafontaine and Mogilny.\n\nQuebec vs. Montreal - Montreal in 7.\nClassic battle, the inexperience will hurt the Nords, this year.\n\nFinal - Bruins in 5. Habs will be hurting from their series with the Nords,\nand Boston has been able to control the scorers on the Habs.\n\nPatrick Division\n----------------\n\nPittsburgh vs Islanders/Devils - Pens in 5.\nOne word. Mario.\n\nWashington vs. Devils/Islanders - Caps in 6 / Devils in 7.\nI think the Caps can beat the Isles, but not the Devils. Tabaracci has been\nstrong in goal, and if he plays like last year, he could carry the team.\nIt doesn't matter, though.\n\nFinal - Pens in 5. Two more words. Stevens. Jagr.\n\nCup Final - Pens in 6. Three last words. Tocchet. Murphy. Barrasso.\n\nThe only thing I don't like about this is that the Pens woofers are going to\nbe out in full force again. (I don't mean the regular Penguin fans...it's\njust like the bunch around here that if these predictions are true will post\nlike nuts while the Jets are winning, but we won't hear from again when they\nlose.)\n\n(Oh yeah...next year's Cup prediction...Jets in 7 over the Nords.)\n\n", "Is it just me or is the camera work on some of these games really sad?? I\ncan't remember how many times during the Penguins-Devils game they showed some\nguy (without the puck) being checked in the corner while the puck was being\nfired on goal. In fact, I think they even missed one goal completely because\nthey were showing two guys holding each other in the corner.\n\nNow the last time I watched a football game, they didn't show the lineman going\nat it while the running back turned the corner for a touchdown . . . . \n\nIs it just me??\t", "Most of this discussion has been between Mark Singer and David Tate,\nwith Valentine weighing in on the same side as Dave at various times.\nMy opinion, FWIW, to all:\n\nMark, age doesn't matter; ability does. I would rather have the untried\nrookie with great minor league numbers than the veteran who has proven\nhimself to be average at best. I don't care if he is 15; if he plays\nbetter than what I have, I want him out there. Sandy Alomar had decent\nminor league numbers, grossly inflated by the PCL in general and Las\nVegas in particular; he should have been projected as an average major\nleague hitter (which is good for a catcher, I'll admit). Santiago's\nnumbers would probably come out the same as Sandy's, but I don't have\nthe league data from the mid-80s to check it out.\n\nThat being said, I agree with sending Lopez to Richmond, at least to\nstart the season. As the box below shows, he has *one* minor league\nseason in which he hit well. He has two in which he hit very, very\npoorly. I want to see that the 92 Lopez is real. Olson and Berryhill\nare not complete mediocrities; for catchers, especially NL catchers,\nthey are essentially average hitters, with equivalent averages around\n.220. If he had hit well at prior levels, I would say he belongs on\nthe Braves; but there is a reasonable chance that Lopez last year was\njust as much a fluke as Alomar in 90 or Santiago in 87. One year at\nany level, at any age, doesn't satisfy MY standards of evidence.\n\n JAVIER LOPEZ 1971 \n 1990 BUR 428 101 10 1 9 5 0 1 .179 33 .236 .245 .327\n 1991 DUR 389 84 8 1 9 14 7 2 .175 29 .216 .243 .311\n 1992 GRN 445 135 22 2 14 22 7 2 .271 71 .303 .336 .456\n 1992 ATL 16 6 2 0 0 0 0 0 .306 3 .375 .375 .500\n MAJ 16 6 2 0 0 0 0 0 .306 3 .375 .375 .500\n MIN 1262 320 40 4 32 41 14 5 .213 133 .254 .277 .368\n TOT 1278 326 42 4 32 41 14 5 .214 136 .255 .278 .369\n MAJ 650 244 81 0 0 0 0 0\n MIN 630 160 20 2 16 20 7 2\n TOT 630 161 21 2 16 20 7 2\n\nOn a similar note, I don't understand why more people are not\nsupportive of Neon Deion. Granted, I thought his behavior with\nMcCarver last year was completely bush. Last year was the first time\nhe ever got 300 AB in one place, so his lines are hard to read. But he\nhas a combined 720 OPS in minor league play; with his speed is more\nvaluable than the OPS alone indicates; and at a still young age (24),\nhad a monster year with an 868 OPS. He has a total, major and minor,\nEQA of .249; above major league average, and above average for CF\n(which was about .240 in the NL last year). He has shown at least the\npotential of going into the .290s, which would make him one of the 15\nbest hitters in the league. He has two full seasons before reaching\nhis \"prime\" season of 27. He should be considered as a legitimate\nprospect, and not as a simple side-show attraction.\n\n DEION SANDERS 1968 \n 1988 FLA 21 8 2 0 0 1 1 0 .325 4 .381 .409 .476\n 1988 INT 20 3 1 0 0 1 1 1 .086 0 .150 .190 .200\n 1989 EAS 123 35 1 2 2 9 15 4 .257 19 .285 .333 .374\n 1989 NYY 47 11 1 0 2 3 1 0 .222 6 .234 .280 .383\n 1989 INT 263 70 11 4 6 18 15 6 .246 37 .266 .313 .407\n 1990 NYY 133 21 2 2 3 13 8 2 .161 9 .158 .233 .271\n 1990 INT 85 26 7 1 1 14 8 1 .312 18 .306 .404 .447\n 1991 ATL 110 20 2 1 4 12 10 3 .201 12 .182 .262 .327\n 1991 RIC 129 30 5 2 4 7 11 3 .230 17 .233 .272 .395\n 1992 ATL 306 92 10 12 11 22 24 9 .295 60 .301 .348 .520\n MAJ 596 144 15 15 20 50 43 14 .245 87 .242 .300 .418\n MIN 641 172 27 9 13 50 51 15 .252 96 .268 .321 .399\n TOT 1237 316 42 24 33 100 94 29 .249 182 .255 .311 .408\n MAJ 600 145 15 15 20 50 43 14\n MIN 603 162 25 8 12 47 48 14\n TOT 601 154 20 12 16 49 46 14", "BoSox 3 Royals 1\n\nWP: Clemens (1-0)\nLP: Appier (0-1)", "\nGretzky averaged 2.69 pts/game\n\n\nCheck your information before posting, Gretzky's record is 215 pts in 80 games.\n\n\nOver 84 games, Gretzky's total projected 226 points.\n\n\nThe 76-77 Canadiens had .825 percentage, 132 pts in 80 games. (60-8-12).\nThe 29-30 Bruins had a .875 winning percentage.\nAlso the 77-78 Canadiens had a .806 percentage with a 59-10-11 record.\n", "\n\tDo you remember Game 7 of the 1988 NLCS, after the Dodgers defeated\nthe Mets, and Ugh-a-dugh foo-boo fat stomach Tom Lasorda came running out\non to the field in celebration? YUCK!!!!!!\n\tHe undulated. His arms flew up and down, keeping time with his\nrolling set of 9 stomachs, which flew all around the cozy confines of\nChavez Ravine. He oozed, like a white gastropod. He ran. It was a \ndisgusting sight. Not only couldn't I watch my Mets in the Series, I had\nto watch Fat Stomach Lasorda roll around Dodger....\n\tBLARGH!\n\n\n\t\"If you like short, fat men, who grunt, curse, and spit a lot,\nWhitey's certainly your man\" - Former WFAN host Pete Franklin, on The White\nRat ...\n\tBut it's true, this emphasis on the appearance of ballplayers in\ntight uniforms only works if the player actually has an extraodinary \nphysique. Looking at Charlie Hough's scrawny torso through those tight\nwhite shirts just sort of makes me decide, \"Hmmm, I don't want to eat lunch\ntoday...or tomorrow...or anytime soon...\".\n\tWhen Al Harazin first became Mets' GM, he was asked if he intended\nto help redesign the Mets' uniforms and change their image. In particular,\nthey asked him about the orange and blue racing stripe that runs down the \nsides the uniforms. He said that he's very much in favor of keeping them\nbecause \"they're sleek and they're sexy\".\n\tSid Fernandez, in a tight-fitting uniform, with a sleek racing\nstripe to denote speed and potencty. Mmmmmmmm...lard.\n\tKevin McReynolds, diving after a fly ball. Mmmmmmmm...Man O' War, baby!\n\tPat Howell....well, never mind. Nothing could be tight on him. \nThey don't make uniform sizes *that* small ... :-)\n", "I am curious to known if there are any professional sports teams whose\ngames are regularly broadcast on an FM station. The only one I am\naware of is WYSP in Philadelphia who carries the Eagles' games.\n\nIf you respond to me I will summarize for the list.", "\nWell, actually, most of ours is based on what really happened and yours is\nbased on some fantasy of how it happened. But that's OK, I understand you\nhave a hockey background. Stats like \"plus/minus\" make RBI look good.\n\n\nOK, how about a straigh answer, then. Here's a very simele question to which\nI'm sure a fair number of us are very interesed in the answer to. Please\nanswer yes or no, Roger:\n Can a pitcher cause the offensive players on his team to score more runs?\nAL only, please.\n\nFor anyone else following along, it is a well-known and demonstrable fact\nthat a team's win-loss record is closely related to the number of runs the\nteam scores and the number the team allows. It's not a definite,\nhard-and-fast function, but there is definitely a correlation. In fact, as a\nrule of thumb, if teams A and B both score X runs and team A allows Y runs,\nfor every 10 runs fewer than Y that team B allows, it will win another game.\nSo, for instance, if we look at the 1991 Toronto Blue Jays, we find that\nthey scored 780 runs and allowed 682, of which Morris allowed 114. All other\nthings being equal, if Frank Viola, with his 3.44 ERA had replaced Jack\nMorris for the 240.2 innings Morris threw (plausible, since Viola threw 238\nfor Boston), the \"Red Jays\" would have allowed about 15 fewer runs, or\nenough for 1-2 more wins. Now, that doesn't take into account that Viola\npitched half his innings in Fenway, which is a harder park to pitch in\n(particularly for a lefthander) than Skydome. So, um, Roger. Unless you\nreally do believe that a pitcher can somehow affect the number of runs\nhis team scores, could you enlighten us to the fallacy in this\nanalysis? Clearly, it would be foolhardy to claim that Viola would\nnecessarily have put up a 3.44 if he had been on the Jay last year, but\nthat is not the claim. We look at what the actual performances were and\nevaluate Viola's as better than Morris' in the sense that \"had Morris\nperformed as Viola did, his team would have been better off.\"\n\n\nThis is true, but not so open that your brain falls out.\n\n Mike Jones | AIX High-End Development | mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com", "\nWhy? Do you expect him to remain the best shortstop in the game until\nhe reaches his seventy-third birthday, or something? Why is it such a\nstrange concept that a forty-one-year-old Ozzie Smith might be a defensive\nliability in 1996?", "\nIt's just as meaningless to compare goals, assists, PIM and any other stat I\ncan think of. Each player is asked to take a unique role for his team. The\ncontexts will never be the same from one player to another playing on the\nsame team or different teams. And yet ... awards are given and promotions\nreceived based in part on these meaningless stats. The operative words are\n\"in part\" - stats must be interpreted, tempered with other information one\nhas about the player. \n\n\n\nAnd comparing Jagr's and Francis's points is just as ridiculous and absurd...\nbut not more ridiculous and absurd as comparing goals, assists, points, +\\-\nfor Selanne, Lindros, Juneau, Potvin, and the other rookies in the league...\nand yet...\n\nHow about looking at them for what they are and enjoy the game.", "\n\n\t\n\n\tHey, Bosio threw a no-no what the hell a Red Sox fan\ngoing to say to that. Heck...Remeber Matt Young last year? ICK..", "Actually Alomar is a two-time gold-glover (91-92).\n", "\nMaybe because baseball is the only business where those who are\nresponsible for the fiscal aspects of the game preach gloom and doom. \nThese allegedly intelligent people seem to predict bad times, losing\nmoney, bankruptcies at an alarming rate, and there's going to be an\nincreased degradation of the product they produce. Could you imagine\nIBM, with all their problems, promoting themselves the way Major League\nBaseball does? Their stock would plummet to unthinkable depths (not\nthat they are too far from it now :-). What would happen at GM? Where\nwould GM be if they admitted to cutting corners and producing an\ninferior product because of alleged labor problems? I think it shows a\nlack of confidence for the people who run the game.\n\n\nForget it. Word has it three divisions with a wild card is just about\na done deal. It has to be decided soon since negotiations with the\nnetworks also have to begin soon.", "I would appreciate it if someone could volunteer to verify the shots on goal\nand save percentage numbers for me, so I can put these stats on the archive\nsite. Contact me by mail if you want to volunteer.\n\nHere are the team goalie stats as of: Wed Apr 21 09:09:38 CST 1993\n\nThese stats include games up to and including the Sunday previous to the date\nlisted above. They have been verified against what is printed in my newspaper\nevery Tuesday. They don't print shots and save percentage numbers, so those\nare not verified. \n\nIf you have any questions, comments or suggestions, let me know.\n\nRandy\n\n-------\nMP = Minutes Played, GA = Goals against,\nSO = Shutouts, GAA = Goals against average\nW = Wins, L = Losses, T = Ties\nSOG = Shots on Goal, SV = Save Percentage\n\n MP GA SO GAA W L T SOG SV TM Player\n=======================================================\n4106 177 7 2.59 41 18 11 1879 0.906 CHI Ed Belfour\n 996 49 2 2.95 6 7 1 414 0.882 CHI Jim Waite\n--------------------------------------------------------------\n5108 230 9 2.70 47 25 12 2296 0.900 CHI\n\n 479 18 2 2.25 6 2 0 232 0.922 TOR Daren Puppa\n2781 116 2 2.50 25 15 7 1287 0.910 TOR Felix Potvin\n1665 87 1 3.14 13 9 4 823 0.894 TOR Grant Fuhr\n 160 15 0 5.63 0 3 0 91 0.835 TOR Rick Wamsley\n--------------------------------------------------------------\n5097 241 5 2.84 44 29 11 2438 0.901 TOR\n\n 25 1 0 2.40 0 0 0 10 0.900 BOS Mike Bales\n1322 64 1 2.90 9 8 4 596 0.893 BOS John Blue\n3194 168 3 3.16 37 14 3 1354 0.876 BOS Andy Moog\n 542 31 0 3.43 5 4 0 225 0.862 BOS Reggie Lemelin\n--------------------------------------------------------------\n5096 268 4 3.16 51 26 7 2190 0.878 BOS\n\n3702 186 4 3.01 43 14 5 1889 0.902 PIT Tom Barrasso\n1368 78 0 3.42 13 7 2 691 0.887 PIT Ken Wregget\n--------------------------------------------------------------\n5083 268 5 3.16 56 21 7 2582 0.896 PIT\n\n3890 196 1 3.02 29 28 9 2194 0.911 STL Curtis Joseph\n1210 74 1 3.67 8 8 2 628 0.882 STL Guy Hebert\n--------------------------------------------------------------\n5110 278 2 3.26 36 36 11 2825 0.902 STL\n\n1817 94 1 3.10 18 8 4 858 0.890 VAN Kay Whitmore\n3261 184 3 3.39 28 21 5 1620 0.886 VAN Kirk McLean\n--------------------------------------------------------------\n5087 278 4 3.28 46 29 9 2449 0.886 VAN\n\n1193 64 0 3.22 13 4 2 522 0.877 DET Vincent Riendeau\n3880 210 4 3.25 34 24 7 1898 0.889 DET Tim Cheveldae\n--------------------------------------------------------------\n5088 280 4 3.30 47 28 9 2425 0.885 DET\n\n 40 1 0 1.50 0 0 0 19 0.947 MTL Frederick Chabot\n3595 192 2 3.20 31 25 5 1813 0.894 MTL Patrick Roy\n1433 81 1 3.39 17 5 1 686 0.882 MTL Andre Racicot\n--------------------------------------------------------------\n5087 280 3 3.30 48 30 6 2522 0.889 MTL\n\n1311 70 1 3.20 14 4 1 629 0.889 CAL Jeff Reese\n3732 203 2 3.26 29 26 9 1805 0.888 CAL Mike Vernon\n 65 5 0 4.62 0 0 1 39 0.872 CAL Andrei Trefilov\n--------------------------------------------------------------\n5120 282 3 3.30 43 30 11 2476 0.886 CAL\n\n 1 0 0 0.00 0 0 0 0 1.000 WAS Byron Dafoe\n 343 10 2 1.75 3 2 0 162 0.938 WAS Rick Tabaracci\n3282 181 1 3.31 27 23 5 1531 0.882 WAS Don Beaupre\n1421 83 0 3.50 13 9 2 681 0.878 WAS Jim Hrivnak\n 20 2 0 6.00 0 0 0 7 0.714 WAS Olaf Kolzig\n--------------------------------------------------------------\n5085 286 3 3.37 43 34 7 2391 0.880 WAS\n\n3476 193 3 3.33 26 26 5 1683 0.885 MIN Jon Casey\n1596 97 1 3.65 10 12 5 803 0.879 MIN Darcy Wakaluk\n--------------------------------------------------------------\n5090 293 4 3.45 36 38 10 2489 0.882 MIN\n\n1429 75 0 3.15 11 10 4 716 0.895 BUF Dominik Hasek\n1694 98 0 3.47 11 15 2 903 0.891 BUF Grant Fuhr\n1306 78 0 3.58 11 5 4 706 0.890 BUF Daren Puppa\n 664 41 0 3.70 5 6 0 344 0.881 BUF Tom Draper\n--------------------------------------------------------------\n5104 297 0 3.49 38 36 10 2674 0.889 BUF\n\n2655 146 1 3.30 22 20 2 1314 0.889 NYI Glenn Healy\n2253 130 0 3.46 17 15 5 1067 0.878 NYI Mark Fitzpatrick\n 157 10 0 3.82 1 2 0 78 0.872 NYI Danny Lorenz\n--------------------------------------------------------------\n5088 297 1 3.50 40 37 7 2470 0.880 NYI\n\n1939 110 0 3.40 18 9 4 947 0.884 QUE Stephane Fiset\n2988 172 0 3.45 29 16 5 1525 0.887 QUE Ron Hextall\n 154 10 0 3.90 0 2 1 66 0.848 QUE Jacques Cloutier\n--------------------------------------------------------------\n5101 300 0 3.53 47 27 10 2536 0.882 QUE\n\n2672 151 2 3.39 19 21 3 1322 0.886 NJ Chris Terreri\n2389 146 2 3.67 21 16 4 1180 0.876 NJ Craig Billington\n--------------------------------------------------------------\n5080 299 4 3.53 40 37 7 2505 0.881 NJ \n\n2757 152 4 3.31 20 18 7 1519 0.900 NYR John Vanbiesbrouck\n 224 14 0 3.75 1 2 1 116 0.879 NYR Corey Hirsch\n2105 134 1 3.82 13 19 3 1184 0.887 NYR Mike Richter\n--------------------------------------------------------------\n5108 308 5 3.62 34 39 11 2826 0.891 NYR\n\n2512 143 5 3.42 20 17 6 1329 0.892 PHI Tommy Soderstrom\n1769 111 1 3.76 13 11 5 932 0.881 PHI Dominic Roussel\n 802 59 0 4.41 3 9 0 405 0.854 PHI Stephane Beauregard\n--------------------------------------------------------------\n5107 319 6 3.75 36 37 11 2672 0.881 PHI\n\n3855 227 2 3.53 33 26 6 2119 0.893 WIN Bob Essensa\n 180 13 0 4.33 2 1 0 96 0.865 WIN Jim Hrivnak\n 959 70 0 4.38 5 10 0 502 0.861 WIN Rick Tabaracci\n 73 6 0 4.93 0 0 1 34 0.824 WIN Mike O'Neill\n--------------------------------------------------------------\n5084 320 2 3.78 40 37 7 2755 0.884 WIN\n\n1591 97 0 3.66 7 19 2 757 0.872 TB Wendell Young\n1163 71 0 3.66 8 10 1 573 0.876 TB JC Bergeron\n2268 150 1 3.97 8 24 4 1197 0.875 TB Pat Jablonski\n 45 7 0 9.33 0 1 0 21 0.667 TB David Littman\n--------------------------------------------------------------\n5088 332 1 3.92 24 53 7 2557 0.870 TB \n\n3753 240 1 3.84 17 38 6 2069 0.884 EDM Bill Ranford\n1338 93 0 4.17 9 12 2 763 0.878 EDM Ron Tugnutt\n--------------------------------------------------------------\n5099 337 1 3.97 26 50 8 2836 0.881 EDM\n\n1735 111 0 3.84 15 8 4 987 0.888 LA Robb Stauber\n2718 175 2 3.86 18 21 6 1545 0.887 LA Kelly Hrudey\n 532 35 0 3.95 6 4 0 294 0.881 LA Rick Knickle\n 98 13 0 7.96 0 2 0 51 0.745 LA David Goverde\n--------------------------------------------------------------\n5100 340 2 4.00 39 35 10 2858 0.881 LA \n\n 11 0 0 0.00 0 0 0 3 1.000 HAR Corrie D'Alessio\n 168 9 0 3.21 1 1 1 87 0.897 HAR Mike Lenarduzzi\n 867 57 0 3.94 5 9 1 499 0.886 HAR Mario Gosselin\n2656 184 0 4.16 16 27 3 1470 0.875 HAR Sean Burke\n1373 111 0 4.85 4 15 1 784 0.858 HAR Frank Pietrangelo\n--------------------------------------------------------------\n5097 369 0 4.34 26 52 6 2851 0.871 HAR\n\n1326 95 0 4.30 2 17 1 743 0.872 OTT Daniel Berthiaume\n3388 250 0 4.43 8 46 3 1711 0.854 OTT Peter Sidorkiewicz\n 90 10 0 6.67 0 2 0 44 0.773 OTT Darrin Madeley\n 249 30 0 7.23 0 5 0 146 0.795 OTT Steve Weeks\n--------------------------------------------------------------\n5074 395 0 4.67 10 70 4 2656 0.851 OTT\n\n2074 142 1 4.11 7 26 0 1250 0.886 SJ Arturs Irbe\n 60 5 0 5.00 0 1 0 46 0.891 SJ Wade Flaherty\n2000 176 0 5.28 2 30 1 1220 0.856 SJ Jeff Hackett\n 930 86 0 5.55 2 14 1 559 0.846 SJ Brian Hayward\n--------------------------------------------------------------\n5077 414 1 4.89 11 71 2 3079 0.866 SJ \n\n", "\n\n\n\n\n Actually Steve, I think he was refering to the Leafs, and when they can\nbe expected to hit the greens...\n", "I haven't seen anyone post this so I will do the honors.\n\nMaine beat LSSU 5-4 in Milwaukee on Saturday night. It was quite a game.\nMaine stormed to a 2-0 lead in the first and looked like they might run away\nwith it. Maine's first goal came inside the first thirty seconds of the game.\nLSSU came back at the end of the period to cut the lead to 2-1.\n\nLSSU came out in the second dominating the play particularly along the boards.\nThe play went quickly with the refs running a no-holds-barred type of game.\nLSSU scored three more unanswered goals to lead 4-2 at the end of the second.\nNow it looked like LSSU might just walk away with the game.\n\nCoach Walsh, of Maine, replaced the starting goalie Dunham with Snow, who won\nthe game against Michigan. Snow proved to be a much more aggressive goalie.\nThe third period, like the second, belonged to the team behind. Maine scored\nthree unanswered goals in a span of five minutes after the four minute mark.\nThey were all scored by Jim Montgomery, the tournament MVP, and all assisted by\nPaul Kariya.\n\nThe last minute of the game bears highlighting. The change to Snow also\nproved the difference in the end. With one minute to go and with the LSSU\ngoalie pulled, Snow dueled with a LSSU forward in a amazing set of moves by\nboth. Snow won. It was a great way to end the game.\n\nThis year's three championships games were sold out last year in about one\nmonth. The Bradley Center holds approximately 17,700. \n", "\nAll they said on the radio that he developed stiffness in the shoulder\nafter throwing a curveball that didn't loosen. Because of the cold\nnight in Denver they decided to remove him from the game rather than\nlet him pitch. He is expected to pitch his next turn in the rotation\n(expected to be April 20, at Shea vs the Giants).", "I sent a version of this post out a while ago, but it was swallowed by\nthe void. My apologies if anyone ends up receiving it.\n\n\n\nOh no, I wasn't confused -- I understood that it was your personal\nopinion. But I thought we were discussing the need to shorten\ngames. The arguments which declare this need seem to hinge on\nthe assertion that long games bore people and otherwise discourage\nthem from going to the ballpark. I'd like to see if the increased\nlength of games has negatively affected attendance. If it has, then\nthere *is* a problem, and something should be done about it. If it\nhasn't, then there *isn't* a problem, and there's no need to monkey\nwith things as they are.", "\nAttendance in 1992 was down. By .3%. From an all-time record in 1991.\nIn people terms, attendance was down by 310,000 from 1991 to 1992. Two\nfranchises, the Dodgers and Mets, were down by 1,100,000 from 1991 to 1992.\nHad either of them not been entirely awful, MLB would have set another\nattendance record in 1992.\n\n Mike Jones | AIX High-End Development | mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com", "Hi all,\n\nI don't get the sport's channel and I'm desparate for some playoff action\n(especially the Cannucks). Does anyone know of a sports bar on the Bay\nPeninsula that will be showing hockey games. I'm looking for something \nbetween redwood City and Mountain View.", "\nRick Tocchet was captain of the Flyers for several years before he was\ntraded to the Pens...\n\n -John Santore\n\n\n=============================================================================\n ____________________ \n/ \\ \"We break the surface tension \n\\_________ ____ \\ with our wild kinetic dreams\"\n/ / \\ \\ -Rush, Grand Designs\n\\_______ / (*) ) )\n/ / /\\___/ / Go Philadelphia Flyers!\n\\_____ / / /\n/ / \\_______/ John Santore (jsbh@andrew.cmu.edu)\n\\________/ ", "\n\n\n\n\tThey did last world cup and eventually lost tp Sweden in the final!", "Your list of Jewish ballplayers includes Levi Samuel Meyerle (son of\nJacob and Margaret Meyerle). Although that sounds like a Jewish name,\nMeyerle's \"surviving relatives\" say he wasn't Jewish, according to\n\"Nineteenth Century Stars,\" published by SABR in 1989. Incidentally,\n\"Long Levi\" (he was 6-foot-1) batted .492 in the first season of the\nNational Association, the first pro league. Needless to say, he hasn't\nbeen topped yet. (Of course, the NA is not considered a \"major\" league\nby officialdom.) Over five seasons, Meyerle hit .368 in the NA. He also\nplayed for the first three seasons of the NL, hitting .329.\n\n\n--\n--------------------------\nPhil Brown |\naka pb6755@csc.albany.edu |", "\n ^^^^^^\n\n\tSure they might. If an error is recorded on, for example, a\nground ball, ie the batter would otherwise be out, it is officially a\nhitless at bat. If it's some other type of error (Greenwell lets a\nsingle go by), it doesn't effect the OBP. But, most errors are\ncounted.", "\n\n\n\n\nWell, when you say, without Morris, you have to mention an assumed\nreplacement. If the alternative to Morris was letting Cito Gaston\nsoft-toss the ball underhand to the opposition every 5 days, then\nof course the Blue Jays wouldn't have won without Morris. If the\nalternative was replacement level, then I think it would've been very\nclose, and yes, Morris might've made the difference. If the alternative\nwas Frank Viola, the Blue Jays probably would have won more easily with\nViola.\n\n\nYes. You can make the argument that the his presence prevented \nthe team from collapsing in August.\n\n\nThose innings were probably helpful.\n\n\nWell, I think is complete bs. What happened most of the time is that\nMorris fell behind, and the team came back and rescued him. Mostly,\nthis is because he's a lousy 1st inning pitcher, and much better\nthe rest of the way. That the team can climb out of 4-0, 5-0 holes\nconsistently and win them 6-5 is not to Morris' credit; it's to the\nteam's credit.\n\nFurthermore, while Morris did exceed the W-L percentage that would\nbe projected from his runs allowed and run support, he hasn't done\nthis in previous years. In fact, his W-L record in 1991 is a lot\nworse than what it projects to be with run support and runs allowed.\nDo you think he just came up with this ability in 1992.\n\nLook at the 2 postseason games he pitched decently in. Typical\nMorris games. Morris gets behind; team rescues him. He's not\nresponsible for that rescue. And in both those games, the team\njust didn't rescue him enough. Jack Morris pitched as well as he did\nduring much of the season in those 2 games; the offense just didn't\nearn him a victory.\n\n\nMorris is one of those guys who will reture when he can't start\nanymore; he's too bad a first inning pitcher to serve in the bullpen.", "There's a lot of whining about how much players are overpaid. I thought\nI'd put together an underpaid team that could win a pennant. I splurged\nand let four of the players earn as much as half a million dollars; the\nhighest-paid player is Frank Thomas, at $900K. I cut some players, like\nKenny Lofton, Chris Hoiles, Keith Mitchell, Tim Wakefield, and a bunch\nof pitchers, all of whom could have arguably made the team better at a\ncost of $1 million for the lot of them. The total team salary is \n$7,781,500, averaging slightly over $300K a player. If that's too steep,\nyou can dump Thomas and Bagwell, replacing them with Paul Sorrento and\na minimum wager to save a bit over a million dollars, and still have one\nof the best teams in the majors.\n\np, Juan Guzman, 500\np, Mussina,\t400\np, Castillo, 250\np, Eldred, 175\np, Rhodes,\t155\np, Militello, 118\nrp, Rojas,\t300\nrp, Beck,\t250\nrp, Melendez, 235\nrp, Hernandez,\t185\nrp, Nied,\t150\nc, Rodriguez,\t275\nc, Piazza, 126\n1b, Thomas,\t900\n1b, Bagwell, 655\n2b, Knoblauch,\t500\n2b, Barberie,\t190\n3b, Gomez,\t312.5\n3b, Palmer,\t250\nss, Listach,\t350\nss, Pena,\t170\nlf, Gonzalez,\t525\ncf, Lankford,\t290\nrf, R.Sanders,\t275\nof, Plantier,\t245", "\n\n\nWell, there were 27 outs in a row with no hits or walks in between, but\nreally, he only retired 26 batters in a row. The first out of the game\nwas the front end of a double play. Still counts as a back-end perfect\ngame in my book, though. \n\nCongrats to Chris Bosio. Too bad the Brewers couldn't hold on to him.", "boxscores.\n\nBeware. The original poster looks to be from Louisville, and chances are \nLouisville gets the edition of the NYTimes that is printed in Chicago for the \nMidWest. This edition has boxscores only on Monday (and Sunday) and an \nextremely skimpy sports section (few game summaries, mostly just color \nstories).", "\nIt would seem logical that the mask is Potvins. His nickname is \"The Cat\", \nwhich would go a long ways towards explaining the panther. \n\nOf course, it could be an old story and the mask is Fuhrs, too.....", "\nFrankly, no. Offense and defense are equally important. But the\npitcher is 80% of the defense. The primary role of every other player\nis on offense. Even shortstops are a bigger part of the offensive\ngame than of the defensive game. (They might not do much with their\npart of the offense, but that's another issue.)\n\nThat being said, I think both Smith and Yount deserve the HOF. They\nhit pretty well in addition to their defense.", "Played in Scandinavium, Gothenburg, April 15 1993:\n ==================================================\n\n SWEDEN - FINLAND 6-6 (1-2,3-1,2-3)\n\n 1st: SWE 1-0 Peter Popovic (Markus Naslund) 6:10\n FIN 1-1 Ville Siren (Keijo Sailynoja) 8:44 (pp)\n FIN 1-2 Juha Riihijarvi (Timo Saarikoski,Vesa Viitakoski) 13:12 (pp)\n 2nd: FIN 1-3 Jari Korpisalo (Kari Harila,Rauli Raitanen) 6:48\n SWE 2-3 Jan Larsson (Mikael Renberg,Stefan Nilsson) 7:25\n SWE 3-3 Hakan Ahlund (Thomas Rundqvist) 8:56\n SWE 4-3 Roger Akerstrom (Roger Hansson) 9:13\n 3rd: SWE 5-3 Stefan Nilsson (Patrik Juhlin,Charles Berglund) 2:20\n FIN 5-4 Keijo Sailynoja 9:23\n FIN 5-5 Keijo Sailynoja 9:44 (ps)\n SWE 6-5 Mikael Renberg (Hakan Ahlund,Thomas Rundqvist) 17:16\n FIN 6-6 Jari Korpisalo 17:44\n\n Shots on goal: Penalties: Attendance: Referee:\n Sweden 8 10 10 - 28 5*2min 6,799 Peter Andersson\n Finland 12 10 11 - 33 6*2min,1*10min (Sweden)\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n Sweden opened the scoring as Markus Naslund made a drop pass at the Finnish\n blue line, Popovic picked it up and advanced towards the Finnish goal and\n shot a nice hard wrist shot in Ketterer's top corner. Ville Siren's slap\n shot from the blue line on power play made it 1-1, and Juha Riihijarvi\n scored a nice goal in another power play when he close in front of goal\n put the puck high over Aslin, 1-2 after the first period.\n The Finns started the second period with really good pressure. Korpisalo\n made it 1-3 with another goal from close range high over Aslin. Then,\n during the Finnish pressure, Sweden turned the game around in 1:47.\n Mikael Renberg worked hard behind the Finnish goal, and passed the puck to\n Jan Larsson in front, who backhanded the puck low, 2-3. Rundqvist entered\n the Finnish zone and passed to Ahlund, and the Finnish defense let Ahlund \n skate in and take a shot that Ketterer dropped into the goal, 3-3.\n Next, Roger Hansson -behind the goal- sent the puck back to the blue line\n where Roger Akerstrom took a slap shot and Ketterer didn't see the puck since\n there was traffic in front, 4-3.\n Third period started with a nice goal by Stefan \"the Shadow\" Nilsson. Stefan\n and Patrik Juhlin entered the Finnish zone, Patrik passed the puck back to\n Stefan who alone with Ketterer made no mistake, 5-3.\n Then, Keijo Sailynoja show started. He reduce and equalized the lead in only\n 21 seconds! First he scored the 5-4 goal, and after that he came in alone \n with Aslin but was tripped by Aslin to get a penalty shot. Sailynoja\n made a nice penalty shot, showed forehand and put in with a low backhand shot.\n The Swedes seemed to head for a win when Mikael Renberg scored the 6-5 goal\n late in the game on a nice power play combination. Renberg waited in the slot,\n showed that he wanted the puck on the backhand side, Ahlund passed the puck\n and Renberg took a turnaround shot low in Ketterer's goal's far side.\n But Jari Korpisalo had other plans as he only 28 seconds later scored the\n game's final goal to make it 6-6. Korpisalo took a slap shot from a narrow\n angle that -maybe- Aslin should have saved.\n\n All in all, a decent game where the defense wasn't the best.\n Both teams juggled around the lines a bit in the second and third period\n to try no combinations.\n\n Renberg and Rundqvist plays well together in the Swedish team. Larsson-\n Nilsson-Juhlin best line overall again, it seems to be a working WC line.\n Stillman good on defense.\n Some players aren't good enough for the WC though. Hakan Ahlund (faell ner\n hjaelmen och jobba!), Roger Hansson, Challe Berglund, Kenny Jonsson\n will likely have to leave for NHL pros.\n\n Two-goal scorers Jari Korpisalo and Keijo Sailynoja played well in the\n Finnish team. Markus Ketterer didn't have a very good game, we've seen him\n a lot better, so Lindfors is probably Finland's starting goalie in the WC.\n I heard that Esa Tikkanen will join the Finnish team. It would be inter-\n resting to know which other pros coach Matikainen counts on for the WC.\n \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n Starting lines:\n\n \tSWEDEN\t\t\t\t\tFINLAND\n\n 35. Peter Aslin\t\t\t30. Markus Ketterer\n\n 8. Kenneth Kennholt\t\t\t 2. Mikko Haapakoski\n 14. Fredrik Stillman\t\t\t 3. Ville Siren\n\n 10. Hakan Ahlund\t\t\t28. Jarkko Varvio\n 9. Thomas Rundqvist\t\t\t40. Mika Nieminen\n 29. Mikael Renberg \t\t\t18. Keijo Sailynoja\n\n 27. Roger Akerstrom\t\t\t 4. Erik Hamalainen\n 7. Arto Blomsten\t\t\t 8. Kari Harila\n\n 20. Jan Larsson \t \t\t25. Rauli Raitanen\n 4. Stefan Nilsson \t\t\t26. Petri Varis\n 5. Patrik Juhlin\t\t\t14. Jari Korpisalo\n\n 3. Peter Popovic\t\t\t 5. Timo Jutila\n 32. Stefan Larsson\t\t\t44. Harri Laurila\n\n 11. Roger Hansson\t\t\t24. Juha Riihijarvi\n 33. Fredrik Nilsson\t\t\t22. Timo Saarikoski\n 24. Peter Ottosson\t\t\t11. Vesa Viitakoski\n\n\t\t\t\t\t 6. Pasi Sormunen\n\t\t\t\t\t12. Janne Laukkanen\n\n 19. Markus Naslund\t\t\t29. Juha Ylonen\n 21. Peter Forsberg\t\t\t27. Timo Peltomaa\n 18. Jonas Bergqvist\t\t\t17. Marko Palo\n\n Played parts of the game:\n 22. Charles Berglund\t\t\t15. Mika Alatalo\n 6. Kenny Jonsson\t\t\t16. Saku Koivu\n\t\t\t\t\t20. Marko Palo\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------", "...\n...\n...\n\n\t\"Why don't you kill him Beav\"\n\n\t\"Well...I dunnow Eddie...I might get in trouble\"\n\n\t\"Here's a gun Beav, shoot him, Beav\"\n\n\t\"Well...ok Eddie\"\n\nBLAM BLAM", "\nI think he just wanted to get Henneman some work, because the \nTigers had days off both the day before and the day after.", "There was an article in one of the U.K. dailies this week\nabout a soccer goalkeeper who had to be carried off the\nfield after a collision with a Ford Sierra cage.", "Hank Greenberg was probably the greatest ever. He was also subject to a\nlot of heckling from bigots on the opposing teams and in the stands, but\nit never seemed to affect his performance negatively.", "\nDayley's salary was guarenteed...with Wells the Jays were only on the\nhook for 25%(?) of it.\n\nGive Jackson a break...he lost about 10 pounds with that flu he had\nwhen he was traded.\n\n\nI would rather have Molitor than Winfield...Winfield was just hogging\nall the credit, and he was trying to soak the Jays for a 3 year\nguarenteed contract...\n\n\nThe Jays pitching can only get better...Molitor and Alomar haven't hit\nanything yet...and the Jays are still over .500...", "Dave Winfield's name does not go\n\n\n\n In terms of PEAK, and I repeat PEAK years, Winfield has Done it \nall. He has batted in the 340's for a season, drove in 100 and more runs \nmany times in a row before his injury. Consistently hit at or near 300 \nwhile knocking in 35 home runs. Have you even LOOKED at Dave Winfield's \nslugging percentage for three or 4 of his best seasons. I still think that \ndave was one of the BETTER of all time, but obviously not the best. He was \none of the best athletes evr to play baseball. He hit line drives that hit \nthe scoreboard in left-center field, a feat np one has done in the new \nStadium. Heck, only 2 or 3 other people have hit it over that green fence \nsince it has been remodeled. He could field, had a bullet arm, and his \nhitting was comparable in many seasons to gary sheffields, and barry bonds \nof last season. He is older now, and slowing down, takes more of an \nuppercut to lift the ball out of the park, but he will always be my hero, \nand my idol. There is nothing that could make me happier than George \ninviting Dave back to the Bronx to play his last year of ball with the \nYankees. Of course, he will most likely refuse the offer, but who knows? \nFor 3 million dollars, he'll play. Heck they are giving gallego 2.5 \nmillion this year, having Dave as their DH, while leaving him time to play \nthe field when Tartabull is injured, or Nokes and mass are traded, should \ngive the Yanks the inspiration and leadership that will sweep in a new age \nof Yankee domination.\n", "\nWell what do you expect...Burns was playing him with Krushelnyski\nand Baumgartner...Anderson is a finisher...unless you play him with\nsomeone to can get him the puck in a finishing position...he ain't\ngoing to do much scoring!", "\n: In any case, I think Viola would have made a better signing. Why?\n: Viola is younger, and is left handed (how many left handed starters does\n: Toronto have?\n\nWell, I agree that Viola is a better signing. However, why does\neveryone say that you want lefthanded starters? I understand lefthanded\nspot relievers, even though they usually face more righthanded batters\nthan lefthanded batters. I just don't understand why people insist\non lefthanded starters, unless there is a park effect (e.g., Yankee Stadium).\nMost batters in MLB are righthanded, so righthanded starters will have\nthe platoon advantage more often than lefthanded starters.\nI guess one argument for lefty starters is that certain teams\nmay be more vulnerable to LHP's than RHP's. However, this is probably\nonly a factor in the postseason, because teams seldom juggle their starters\nfor this reason during the regular season.\n\nI think you just want the best starters you can get, regardless of\nwhether they are lefties or righties. Lefthanded starters tend to have\nhigher ERA's than righthanded starters, precisely because managers\ngo out of their way to start inferior lefties (or perhaps because of\nthe platoon advantage).\n\nAm I missing something here?", "\n Except for the fact that there seems to be a lot of high scoring AL\ngames also and I don't think the expansion teams directly affect them.\n\nK. Scott Day (kday@oasys.dt.navy.mil)\nCarderock Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center\nCode 1252\nBethesda, Maryland 20084-5000\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n* \"The point to remember is that what the government gives \n* it must first take away.\"\n* -John S. Coleman ", "* The Keenan hiring is precipitated by the loss of an anticipated $5M\nin playoff revenue and fears of losing season ticket-holders (!), plus\nParamount chief Stan Jaffe's chip against the Flyers over l'Affaire\nLindros last autumn. Add to this that Neilsen might return as an\nassistant coach [Gerald, what'd I say earlier today??], and Roger\nconferred with Jaffe on the hiring. This hiring by Jaffe went over\nthe head of MSG, Inc. (Par. subsidiary) head Bob Gutkowski and over\nthe head and the protests of Pres./GM Neil Smith.\n\n* MSG is making the announcement on Saturday to get back at the\nIslanders for making the playoffs (i.e., steal the press).\n\n* Flyers owner Ed Snyder is livid and beside himself over this.\n\n* Keenan will make up to $900,000/yr.\n\n* Gary Bettman has appointed an independent consul to look at\nGil Stein's admission into the Hall of Fame.\n\n* New crease colours, rather than blue?\n\n* The Oilers will charge to eat in the Press Room next year.\n\ngld", "\nMe too! I would like any park or action gif or jpeg about baseball.", "FOR SALE:\n\n\tNorthwest Airline Fly-Write ticket for travel within the 48 states \n\tand Canada from anywhere in the country.\n\n\t2 One Way - $200 (each)\n\t1 Round Trip - $350\n\n\tThis ticket has no restrictions, and is fully transferable. However,\n\ttravel has to be completed buy June 4.", "\nAmusing, isn't it? Seems only the SDCNs realize how much baseball is\na *team* game, combining efforts from every player for the win.\n\nConsider the Red Sox game last night. The Sox won 4-3 in the bottom\nof the 13th. Who won the game?\n\n-Clemens pitched a strong nine (?) innings, allowing only two runs.\n-Ryan pitched a couple shutout innings, though he needed some excellent\n defensive plays behind him to do so.\n-Quantrill pitched a couple of innings, gave up the go-ahead run, and\n got credited with the win when the Sox scored two in the bottom of\n the inning.\n\nLooks like a team effort to me! Yet only Quantrill got credit for\nthe win.\n\nHow about the offense?\n-Dawson and Vaughn hit (I think) HRs early in the game. Without either\n one, the Sox would have lost in nine.\n-Quintana led off the 13th with a solid single.\n-Zupcic pinch-ran for Quintana, providing the speed to go from first\n to third when...\n-Cooper ripped a *second* single in the inning.\n-Melvin avoided the DP, getting the run home with a sac fly. Not much of\n a help, but it was something.\n-Scrub Richardson then hit a double, scoring the speedy Cooper all the\n way from first! (Hill's lack of defense helped.)\n\nCooper and Zupcic were credited with runs, Melvin and Richardson were\ncredited with RBIs. But it seems to me that it was Quintana's hit\nthat set up the whole inning! And did Melvin really contribute as\nmuch as Richardson?\n\nFurthermore, people seem to consider RBIs to be more significant than\nruns. Did Melvin contribute more than Cooper? Cooper provided the\ngame-winning baserunner, and moved the tying run to third base with\nonly one out!\n\nAssigning credit based on Runs and RBIs is clearly ridiculous. You\ncan argue that OBP and SLG don't show you who came through in the\nclutch, but R&RBI don't do any better. At least OBP and SLG don't\n*claim* to try to tell you that.\n\nHere's to the Red Sox who contributed to last night's victory.\nAll 20 of them!", "Didn't Fred Hoyle abandon the steady state theory?\n", "\nThis would be dumb move of the nineties...Lindros is big and strong...\nbut why give him a ball and chain on one leg and an anchor on the\nother to drag along.\n\n\nNot if Pocklington gets there first! (-...actually, if Pocklington\ndoesn't get a better deal, he would probably go to Hamilton...taking\nthe team out of Canada would get the whole country mad at him...\ntaking the team to Hamilton wouldn't get anybody mad at him that \nisn't mad at him already...and would make him a lot of friends\nin Southern Ontario...so many that the whining of the stupid politicians in\nEdmonton and the fickle spoiled fans wouldn't be noticed at all.\nEdmonton would wallow in anonymnity.", "\n\nI don't \"notice\" refs and linesmen until the playoffs come around, and\nyes I have to agree that Stewart called the *two* worst games I've seen\nso far (Mtl-Quebec game 1, and last nights Toronto-Detroit game).\n\nWhat's the scoop on this guy? Is he the latest incarnation of\nKERRY FRASER??? Just because you are boneheadedly stubborn doesn't\nmake you a good ref!!! Making the right call does...\n\nMy votes for:\nBest Ref: Van Hellemond\nMost Improved: Koharski\nWorst: Paul Stewart\n\n(Oops, I don't really want to start a best/worst ref thread so don't\nfollow up ;-)", "\nKDKA has first rights to Pirates games, and will split probably 50-50\nin conflicts; for Penguins games which are preempted, check out \n102.5 WDVE FM (that's right, DVE). It is also 50,000 watts.", "\n\nBowman tended to overplay Francis at times because he is a Bowman-style\nplayer. He plays hard at all times, doesn't disregard his defensive\nresponsibilities and is a good leader. Bowman rewarded him be increasing his\nice time.\n\nJagr can be very arrogant and juvenile and display a \"me first\" attitude.\nThis rubbed Bowman the wrong way and caused him to lose some ice time.\n\nThroughout the year, Francis consistently recieved more ice time than\nJagr. Althouhg I have never seen stats on this subject, I am pretty\nsure that Jagr had more points per minute played that Francis. When\nyou add to that Jagr's better +/- rating, I think it becomes evident\nthat Jagr had a better season- not that Francis had a bad one.", "MLB Standings and Scores for Wednesday, April 21st, 1993\n\t (including yesterday's games)\n\nNATIONAL WEST\t Won Lost Pct. GB Last 10 Streak Home Road\nSan Francisco Giants 09 05 .643 -- 8-2 Won 2 05-02 04-03\nHouston Astros 07 06 .538 1.5 7-3 Lost 1 02-04 05-02\nAtlanta Braves 08 07 .533 1.5 4-6 Won 1 04-03 04-04\nLos Angeles Dodgers 06 08 .429 3.0 4-6 Lost 1 03-03 03-05\nSan Diego Padres 05 08 .385 3.5 4-6 Lost 1 03-04 02-04\nColorado Rockies 04 08 .333 4.0 4-6 Lost 2 03-03 01-05\nCincinnati Reds 04 09 .308 4.5 3-7 Won 2 02-04 02-05\n\nNATIONAL EAST\nPhiladelphia Phillies 10 03 .769 -- 7-3 Won 2 06-01 04-02\nSt. Louis Cardinals 08 05 .615 2.0 6-4 Won 1 05-02 03-03\nChicago Cubs 07 06 .538 3.0 6-4 Won 1 04-03 03-03\nMontreal Expos 07 06 .538 3.0 5-5 Won 2 04-03 03-03\nPittsburgh Pirates 07 06 .538 3.0 4-6 Lost 4 03-03 04-03\nNew York Mets 06 06 .500 3.5 4-6 Lost 2 02-04 04-02\nFlorida Marlins 04 09 .308 6.0 3-7 Lost 2 02-05 02-04\n\n\nAMERICAN WEST Won Lost Pct. GB Last 10 Streak Home Road\nTexas Rangers 08 04 .667 -- 6-4 Lost 1 04-02 04-02\nCalifornia Angels 07 04 .636 0.5 6-4 Won 1 04-02 03-02\nMinnesota Twins 07 05 .583 1.0 6-4 Won 1 04-03 03-02\nChicago White Sox 06 07 .462 2.5 4-6 Won 1 02-03 04-04\nOakland Athletics 05 06 .455 2.5 4-6 Won 1 05-02 00-04\nSeattle Mariners 05 08 .385 3.5 3-7 Lost 1 03-03 02-05\nKansas City Royals 04 09 .308 4.5 4-6 Won 2 02-05 02-04\n\nAMERICAN EAST\nBoston Red Sox 11 03 .786 -- 8-2 Won 4 06-01 05-02\nDetroit Tigers 08 05 .615 2.5 7-3 Won 1 06-01 02-04\nToronto Blue Jays 07 06 .538 3.5 5-5 Lost 1 04-02 03-04\nNew York Yankees 06 07 .462 4.5 5-5 Lost 3 03-03 03-04\nMilwaukee Brewers 04 06 .400 5.0 4-6 Lost 1 02-02 02-04\nCleveland Indians 05 09 .357 6.0 3-7 Lost 2 04-03 01-06\nBaltimore Orioles 04 08 .333 6.0 4-6 Lost 1 02-04 02-04\n\n\n\t\t\t YESTERDAY'S SCORES\n (IDLE teams listed in alphabetical order)\n\nNATIONAL LEAGUE\t\t\t\tAMERICAN LEAGUE\n\nHouston Astros\t 1\t\tChicago White Sox\t2\nChicago Cubs\t 2\t\tBaltimore Orioles\t1 (14)\n\nLos Angeles Dodgers\t3\t\tTexas Rangers\t\t1\nMontreal Expos\t\t7\t\tDetroit Tigers\t\t3\n\nCincinnati Reds\t\t5\t\tMilwaukee Brewers\t0\nPittsburgh Pirates\t0\t\tMinnesota Twins\t 10\n\nAtlanta Braves\t\t5\t\tToronto Blue Jays\t2\nFlorida Marlins\t\t4\t\tKansas City Royals\t8\n\nSan Diego Padres\t3\t\tCleveland Indians\t2\nPhiladelphia Phillies\t4 (14)\t\tCalifornia Angels\t7\n\nSan Francisco Giants\t4\t\tNew York Yankees\t7\nNew York Mets\t\t1 (11)\t\tOakland Athletics\t9 (10)\n\nColorado Rockies\t0\t\tBoston Red Sox\t\t5\nSt. Louis Cardinals\t5\t\tSeattle Mariners\t2\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nJoseph Hernandez | RAMS | | /.\\ ******* _|_|_ / | LAKERS\njtchern@ocf.Berkeley.EDU | KINGS | |__ | | DODGERS _|_|_ | | RAIDERS\njtcent@soda.Berkeley.EDU | ANGELS |____||_|_| ******* | | |___| CLIPPERS", "Yes - Everyone seems to be in agreement that the Yankees are \nfinally moving in the right direction. They should finish\nover .500 this year and maybe even be in the pennent race \nin August. However, I would take back a few moves:\n\n1. The Jim Abbott Trade.\n I think Abbott is not only an inspirational person, but a\n great pitcher also. He could win the Cy Young this year, \n but he won't because the right side of the Yanks infield\n isn't good enough. So why was this not a good trade? \n JT Snow. How many rookies have been able to step in and\n immediately have the impact that he has had so far on \n the Angels? I know it's early, but if you've seen this kid\n hit, field or talk you can just tell that he is going to be \n a tremendous player. The Yanks should have kept him. What\n about Mattingly, you ask? Well - it's great that the Yanks\n have taken care of him and remained loyal, but he's 10 years\n older than Snow and just doesn't have the same bat speed as\n before his back injury. It's a shame, but as a Yankee fan \n who wants to see the *best* Yankee team, I'd take \n Snow over Mattingly at first. The Yanks also gave up two\n promising propects with Snow for Abbott. Besides, with\n Domingo Jean, Brien taylor, Wickman, Militello, and Sterling\n Hitchcock, they are just loaded with propects. I know Abbotts\n only 26, but this was too much to give up. I believe George\n forced this trade because he believes (and he's right) that\n Abbott will be a big hit in NY. However, I'd like to see the\n Yankees build a baseball team, not an amusement show.\n\n2. Wade Boggs.\n I live in Boston and like Wade a lot. But, his career is \n winding down and I would rather see the Yanks start to develop\n a long term solution (i.e. Hensley Muelins, Russ Davis, Velarde?).\n Besides, Wade just doesn't have any range. What a shame about\n Charlie Hayes, huh?\n\n3. Spike Owen.\n See Wade Boggs. I'd much rather see them develop Dave Silvestri\n or whoever. Wade and Spike next to each other in the infield is\n going to raise the Yankee staff ERA 1/2 point. And these guys\n are on the down sides of their careers.\n\n4. Danny Tartabull.\n Yes - he's put up some tremendous numbers and it's nice to think\n about what he could do if he were ever healthy all year. But he\n never is. We should expect 120 games max out of him. Meanwhile,\n Gerald Williams is playing at Columbus and Paul O'Neil is playing\n left field! I believe O'Neil led NL outfielders in assists\n last year - and Tartabull is a poor defensive outfielder.\n\nWhat I'm basically getting at is the Yanks are moving in the right\ndirection but are NOT ready to win a pennent this year. They should\n(at the GM level) be planning for a 1994 or 1995 world series. This\nmeans getting the younger players experience in the majors NOW so they \nwill be ready in a year or two. \n\nI'm afraid that all this stuff wreaks of George Steinbrenner.\nCertainly, the Boggs deal was all George. It looks like George is\nplanning the right mix of veterans and young players to win a world\nseries now. The veterans are always available and can be added at any\ntime (like Boston did this year). Develop the young players first,\nthen add the one or two veterans (or in the Yankees case, just keep\nthem). Let's all us Yankee fans hope that George doesn't dismantle\nthe terrific job Stick and company have done building the Yankee\norganization back into one of respect. I'm really afraid that he will\ntrade whoever it takes to patch holes today (relief pitching for\nexample). George must realize that the Yankees rebuilding process is\nstill one or two years away. Have patience George and we will all\nenjoy the future. Fire Bucky and trade the kids and it's baseball\nhell for all loyal Yankee fans for a long time!", "\n\n: I have one complaint for the cameramen doing the Jersey-Pitt series: Show\n: the shots, not the hits. On more than one occassion the camera zoomed in\n: on a check along the boards while the puck was in the slot. They panned\n: back to show the rebound. Maybe Mom's camera people were a little more \n: experienced.\n\n\n\n: Joseph Stiehm\n\nExactly. That is my biggest complaint about the coverage so far.\nFollow that damn puck!\n\n\n\n\n--\nRavi Shah\nshah+@pitt.edu", "\n\nHeavens! Everybody but Phill is out of step!\n\n\nOnce again, Phill lets us all know that might makes right -- but ONLY for\nthe all-sacred government.\n-- ", "\n\nWell, I agree that if you're going to stand in front of the net,\nthat you should expect to get hit and hacked at. In general, you\nshould expect to finish the game with some bruises. However,\nthere is a fine line between hacking at a guy (causing some pain\nand discomfort) and blatantly attempting to injure another\nplayer. Felix Potvin, IMO, crossed that line on Wednesday. That\ntwo hander on Ciccarelli was way out of line. I lost a lot of\nrespect for Potvin because of that. It showed an immaturity. He\ndid not slash at Ciccarelli to simply try to remove him from the\nslot area (a legal position for Dino to be in). Instead, he\nslashed in an attempt to injure. It was out of shear frustration. As a\nLeaf supporter (just a supporter, I'm not a Leaf fan really), I\nwas very disappointed.\n\nYou're right in mentioning Billy Smith and Ron Hextall (at least\nin his Philly days). They both crossed that same line at times and\nfor that reason, many fans (and players) disliked them (that's\nwhy their names always comes up as examples when we talk about\nthese issues). Let's hope that Felix doesn't do that again. I'd\nhate to see anyone (even Dino --- although I admit I don't like\nhim very much) get seriously hurt from such careless (but\nintentional) use of the stick.", "Well I just read in the Boston Globe that while not confirming\n(or denying) anything, Walsh may end up with the Rangers organizations\nas an (assistant Coach?). Keenan has talked with Walsh in the past\n(he came up to see Kariya as he will be coaching him in the worlds,\nfunny I guess he got to watch the Ferraro brothers as well.....) I'm\nnot sure if walsh will go, but if Keenan is getting 700,000 and walsh\neven gets 100,000 that's a 30% pay raise for walsh (not to mention\na nice career move....) Anyone from New York Hear anything about\nthis????????\n\n Pat Ellis\n\n\n\n\nP.S. GO BRUINS GO UMAINE BLACK BEARS 42-1-2 NUMBER 1......\n\n HOCKEY EAST REGULARS SEASON CHAMPIONS.....\n HOCKEY EAST TOURNAMENT CHAMPIONS>......\n PAUL KARIYA, HOBEY BAKER AWARD WINNER.......\n NCAA DIV. 1 HOCKEY TOURNAMENT CHAMPIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!\n", "\nMel Hall signed with a Japanese team.\n", "\n\nI wonder why you say that? I don't see why having a spouse and/or\nkids would have anything to do with it. It might if you brought\nyour kids to the game and wanted them to get home in time to get\nto bed at a reasonable hour (in which case I'd probably decide\nto take my kids to games on weekends, as many people do, or else\nbe prepared to leave the game early), but from what you say later\non, you don't bring your kids *or* your spouse to the game.\nAs it happens, I have a husband but no kids, and my husband usually\nattends games with me.\n\n\nI can see it's a problem if you don't bring your wife to the ballgame,\nbut that's a problem even if the game goes a trim 2 1/2 hours. As far\nas bagging work the next day, I don't really understand why that's\nnecessary, unless going to a game also means that you consume vast\nquantities of beer (I note that this is the case for many guys).\nIf you don't think you can get up to go to work after a long evening\nout, then don't have long evenings out during the week.\n\n\nLook: if I pay between $8.00 and $20.00 apiece for tickets, plus $10.00 \nfor parking, plus spending my time and energy driving to and from Boston, \nplus spending additional money on concessions etc. at the ballpark, then \nI see going to a game as a considerable investment of time and money.\nI can't afford to go to a lot of games. Hence, going to a game is a\nbig deal, like going to a play or an opera. Maybe you have more money than \nI do and can go to games all year long, so it's not such a big deal for you. \nBut I'm not interested in having games \"sped up\", any more than I want to\nhave _Die Walkure_ cut down to a convenient \"weeknight version\" of two\nhours. If I felt that going to a night game during the week would interfere \nwith my family life or my work life, then I'd choose to go to a weekend game.\n\nIMPO.", "The Royals are darkness. They are the void of our time.\nWhen they play, shame descends upon the land like a cold front\nfrom Canada. They are a humiliation to all who have lived and\nall who shall ever live. They are utterly and completely\ndoomed.\n\nOther than that, I guess they're OK.\n\n-- ", "\nNot always true. In fact, in the case of Doug Gilmour, he actually praises them.\n\nEuropeans that do those things are scum in Cherry's opinion. Canadian kids\nthat do them are \"tough, just like a real Canadian\". \n\nUlf Samuelsson cheap shots Mark Messier's ribs and Don wants Ulf's head. Doug\nGilmour breaks Tomas Sandstrom's arm and Don says Sandstrom had it coming. \nMethinks Don is either very confused or just a bigot. Most likely the latter.\n\nI used to like Don Cherry. I thought he was great. But I'm starting to see\nhis true colors (redneck) and the more I see of them, the more I think he's\njust an asshole.", "Northwest Air tix - SAVE $30 ANY FLIGHT\n\nI have a $400 credit with Northwest Airlines which must be used\nby Nov 27, 1993. \n\nThere is a $50 charge to change the ticket, so I will sell it for\n$320. It can be used for any Northwest flight, but I don't think\nthey will refund cash.\n\nPlease contact me at tallen@corp.hp.com or (415)857-5878.", " Steve Tuttle was traded from the Blues to TB in the before the start of this\nseason along with Pat Jablonski, for future considerations. He played for\nMilwaukee of the IHL, then got traded from TB to QUE along with Michel Mongeau.\nHe's currently playing with Halifax of the AHL.", "FULL 1993 CALDER CUP PLAYOFF SCHEDULE AND RESULTS\t\nhome team in CAPS\t\t*=if necesary\n\nFIRST ROUND\t\t\t\t\t\nSpringfield Indians vs Providence Bruins\nGm 1:\tSpringfield 3\tPROVIDENCE 2\t\nGm 2:\tSpringfield 5\tPROVIDENCE 4\nGm 3:\tProvidence 3\tSPRINGFIELD 2\nGm 4:\tProvidence 9\tSPRINGFIELD 0\t\t\nGm 5:\tSpringfield 4\tPROVIDENCE 2\nGm 6:\t4/24\tProvidence at Springfield\t\nGm 7:\t4/27\tSpringfield at Providence\t*\n\nCD Islanders vs Adirondack Red Wings\nGm 1:\tADIRONDACK 6\tCDI 2\nGm 2:\tADIRONDACK 5\tCDI 3\nGm 3:\tAdirondack 3\tCDI 0\nGm 4:\tAdirondack 3\tCDI 1\n(ADIRONDACK WINS SERIES, 4-0)\n\nBaltimore Skipjacks at Binghamton Rangers\nGm 1:\tBaltimore 4\tBINGHAMTON 3\t\nGm 2:\tBINGHAMTON 6\tBaltimore 2\nGm 3:\tBinghamton 8\tBALTIMORE 3\nGm 4:\t4/24\tBinghamton at Baltimore\nGm 5:\t4/26\tBaltimore at Binghamton\t\nGm 6:\t4/28\tBinghmaton at Baltimore\t*\nGm 7:\t4/30\tBaltimore at Binghamton\t*\n\t\t\nUtica Devils vs Rochester Americans\nGm 1:\tUtica 3\t\tROCHESTER 2\t(OT)\nGm 2:\tROCHESTER 9\tUtica 3\nGm 3:\tRochester 6\tUTICA 4\nGm 4:\tRochester 4\tUTICA 3\t\t(OT)\nGm 5:\t4/24\tUtica at Rochester\t\nGm 6:\t4/26\tRochester at Utica\t*\nGm 7:\t4/28\tUtica at Rochester\t*\n\nMoncton Hawks vs St John's Maple Leafs\nGm 1:\tSt JOHN'S 4\tMoncton 2\t(at Halifax)\nGm 2:\tST JOHN'S 3\tMoncton 2\t(at Halifax)\nGm 3:\tSt John's 6\tMONCTON 5\nGm 4:\tMONCTON 5\tSt John's 4\t(OT)\nGm 5:\t4/26\tMoncton vs St John's at Halifax\t\nGm 6:\t4/28\tSt John's at Moncton\t\t*\nGm 7:\t4/30\tMoncton vs St John's at Halifax\t*\n\nCape Breton Oilers vs Fredericton Canadiens\nGm 1:\tFREDERICTON 4\tCape Breton 3\t(2OT)\nGm 2:\tCape Breton 5\tFREDERICTON 2\nGm 3:\tCAPE BRETON 3\tFredericton 0\t\nGm 4:\tCAPE BRETON 6\tFredericton 5 \t(OT)\nGm 5:\t4/24\tCape Breton at Fredericton\t\nGm 6:\t4/26\tFredericton at Cape Breton\t*\nGm 7:\t4/28\tCape Breton at Fredericton\t*\n(note about this series: the AP reports that CB has won this\n series 4-1, but in the original schedule, Game 5 wasn't supposed\n to be until tonight and I only have the Oilers as being up 3-1)", "\n\n\n\n\nYes, these last couple of months the Kinngs have failed to show up in about\none game in five. Presumably last night was that one game in five. ", "\n\nAnd some comments, with some players deleted.\n\n\nYep, that Kevin Mitchell. I never would have expected him in the\n#1 spot.\n\nIt's no accident that the first two names are 1988 only. As with first\nand second base, 1988 was the year of the glove. Average DA was 20 points\nhigher in both leagues than any other year.\n\nLooks good. Too bad he's moving to short.\n\nHighest five-year regular, though he's only had one year as good as Kevin\nMitchell :->.\n\nThe other elite fielders in the league.\n\nThis is an interesting line. His 1988 figure was slightly below average.\nHis 1990 was pathetic, and his 1991 was the next best year by anybody. Part of\nthat may be his mobility. 1988 was with the Yankees. 1990 was with the\nPadres, who appear to have a rotten infield. 1991 was with the Twins, and\njudging by Leius and Gaetti, the Metrodome may be a good place to play\nthird.\n\nAdd another to the elite fielders list.\n\nToo fielders whose career average may overstate their value. I don't know\nwhat happened to Caminiti -- judging by the three previous years, his low\n1992 may be a fluke. Sabo is merely average, however. His incredible 1988\n(best year ever) brings his average up a lot.\n\nStrange last two years.\n\nAccording to reputation, one of the best fielders ever at third base.\nBut at the end, he was below average. (Average in 1988 was .643).\n\nBoggs has been pretty good. I don't know what happened in 1990, but every\nother year he has been above average, usually by quite a bit.\n\nLast year -- a fluke or a portent?\n\nWhy is it that the two leagues usually have defensive averages very close\nto one another, but very different from year to year? Any ideas?\n\nBrook is declining.\n\nThree first-time regulars, above average in 1992. I'm not sure why Jefferies\ngets all the grief about his fielding. He's never had a good year, but while\nat second he improved to become an average fielder, and is an average fielder\nat third.\n\nZeile, on the other hand, is a below average fielder. Each year he's about\n10 points below average. And it's probably not just the park, since Terry\nPendleton had excellent DAs in the three years before this.\n\nMoving back to second was a good idea.\n\nSo why is Hayes supposed to be good defensively? He's had a grand total\nof one year above the league DA, and was pretty bad last year.\n\nHoward Johnson and Carney Lansford -- separated at birth. To his credit,\nHoJo did have one above average year (1990). Lansford couldn't even break\nthe .600 mark without the help of the year of the glove.\n\nGood hitter, but his fielding needs work.\n\nNot a good fielder.\n\nBoth are better off at shortstop.\n\nTwo consecutive horrible years for Leo. Camden Yards doesn't seem to\nhave helped his fielding any. \n\nTexas slugger debuts with not only the lowest career DA, but the lowest\nDA at third ever. Congratulations, Dean.\n-- \nDale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Grad Student At Large", "netnews.upenn.edu!newsserver.jvnc.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!news.se\nervice.uci.edu!network.ucsd.edu!btree!terry\n\tWill they name Lindros captain next year or Recchi.\nGeoff\n", "\t\t\t\t\t^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nHopefully EPSN will use the lesson given by the master: Ted Turner.\nThe season Ted introduced TNT, many cable co.'s refused to put it on,\nsaying that, gee we get enough old movies, miniseries, etc. on TBS,\nUSA, AMC, WGN, WOR, why do we need another one? This was in the fall.\nCome spring, Ted fixed their little red wagons good. The previous\nspring, NBA playoffs wore on TBS, now they were on TNT (and still are).\nAnd everyone gets TNT now.\n\nSo, ESPN should put NFL football and baseball on ESPN2, and leave\nhockey on ESPN. And if cable co.'s play games and drop ESPN\nin favor of ESPN2, ESPN should alternate baseball and football between\nchannels every week.\n\nBut, do the ESPN guys collectively have the gonads of the Turner guy?", "\n*>\n*>McGill/Hammond -> Johan Garpenlov. Would you really rather have those two\n*>instead of Johan?\n*\n*\tBy your logic then you enjoy having Falloon and Ozolinsh on \n*\tinjured reserve?\n*\n\nFalloon was hurt on a clean check. He just fell poorly. Same with Wilson.\nI don't know about Ozolinsh. A judo coach would do more for the Sharks \ninjury situation than Bob Probert.\n\nActually, a judo/ju-jitsu coach could help add a really interesting \nwrinkle to anyone's game....", "\nYes, Colin... I have to agree with you here... I've put the puck in\nmy own net the same way Smith did... (only once, mind you :-) and it\nwas definitely my fault. It is NOT a common play to play the puck the\nway that Smith did. \n\nLuckily, for me... when I did it... it was only a scrimmage :-)", "I saw a previous request for the Rules and Instructions for the USENET \nplayoff pool but I haven't seen any responce. Does anybody have this info?\nIf so post away or you could mail it to me. Thanks in advance.\n\n", "\nMajor league baseball has told the Blue Jays and the Expos not to\nsign Oscar Linares (I think that is his name)\n...Canada does not have the restrictions against\nCubans that the US has and other major league teams have told the\nCanadian teams that they would be very unhappy if the Expos or the\nBlue Jays would do this. Cubans players would not have to defect\nto play in Canada and could play the 81 home games for the Expos\nand Blue Jays without any trouble.", "I have tickets for the TB Giants and I was wondering if\nanybody familiar with the stadium could tell me where \nSection 15 in the lower level is located.\n Please e-mail the response,\n Thanks, \n Rich", "\n I thought that he was comparing Cullen to TEEMU SEL[NNE. I always thought\n that salami is some sort of sausage, BUT IF YOU, dear Roger, ARE ABLE TO\n SEE SALAMI ON THE ICE PLAYING HOCKEY... I don't know what to do, but you\n surely should do something and very quickly!!!\n\n Maybe you think that if you keep on talking some rubbish, after some time\n everybody will consider it to be really true... You should take care of\n your LEAFS, they surely need it more.\n \n\n At least we have seen him playing... \n\n During the latest Philly game the Leaf players didn't parade... Philly\n crunched them 4-0 !!! Maybe you need some more two way players who can\n score, too !!???\n\n just cordially,\n\n Hannu", "On March 21, 1993 Roger Maynard wrote (in reply to an article by Graham\nHudson):\n\n\n\nThis was <1993Mar21.223936.6192@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca>, for anybody who\nwould like to check.\n\nHe went on (in another article) to say [paraphrased]\n\n\n*NOW*, however, in article <1993Apr12.013939.23016@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> \n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nSo, Roger, what exactly *is* playoff hockey all about? Or is it a convenient\nphrase to use in certain circumstances only?", "It depends. If, in the judgment of the umpire the batter made no\nattempt to avoid getting hit, the batter is awarded first for a\nbase on balls. If the umpire rules he did try to get out of the\nway, he's awarded first because of a hit batsman.\n\nRyan Robbins\nPenobscot Hall\nUniversity of Maine", "I recently bought a pack of prospect hockey cards which had various\nplayers that were coming into the NHL. I got this particular card of\na Russian named Viktor Kozlov. It says \"many scouts believe he will\nbe the #1 pick in 1993\". Another guy is quoted as saying \"He's as \ngood as Mario Lemieux\". Anyone know who this guy is?????", "THIS IS WHAT I CAME UP WITH USING THE FINAL REGULAR SEASON STATS FOR THE\n92/93, WHICH YOU CAN FIND IN THE APRIL 22, 1993 EDITION OF THE USA TODAY!\nTRY IT OUT AND SEE WHAT YOU COME UP WITH.....\n\n 1. ADAM OATES C BRUINS 145 PTS\n 2. TEEMU SELANNE RW JETS 136 PTS\n 3. ALEXANDER MOGILNY RW SABRES 131 PTS\n 4. PAVEL BURE RW CANUCKS 116 PTS\n 5. VINCENT DAMPHOUSSE LW CANADIANS 106 PTS\n 6. DAVE ANDREYCHUK LW MAPLELEAFS 104 PTS\n 7. PHIL HOUSLEY RD JETS 103 PTS\n 8. PAUL COFFEY RD REDWINGS 94 PTS\n 9. SERGEI FEDOROV C REDWINGS 94 PTS\n10. ANDY MOOG G BRUINS 86 PTS\n11. AL INFRATE RD CAPITIALS 82 PTS\n12. PATRICK ROY G CANADIANS 76 PTS\n13. AL MACINNIS LD FLAMES 60 PTS\n14. DENNIS SAVARD C CANADIANS 59 PTS\n15. CALLE JOHANSSON LD CAPITALS 50 PTS\n16. YURI KHMYLEV LW SABRES 41 PTS\n17. RICHARD SMEHLIK LD SABRES 36 PTS\n------------------------------------------------\n TOTAL POINTS 1519 PTS", "\nJagr has a higher +/-, but Francis has had more points. And take it from\nan informed observer, Ronnie Francis has had a *much* better season than\nJaromir Jagr. This is not to take anything away from Jaro, who had a \ndecent year (although it didn't live up to the expectations of some).\n \n\nDean\n-- ", "\nGrant Fuhr rules! -).", "\n Well I was watching Hockey Hotline last night and Stan said that the\nstation (KBL) had been recieving calls all day concerning this subject. \nAnd the verdict was that almost exclusively NOBODY wanted that load\nmouth, know it all blow hard, former Bruin whiner, Ulf Hating, scum\nsucking, Pr*ck of missery in Pittsburgh on a permanent basis. That's\nnot exactly what Stan said; I did do a bit of interpriting.\n", "\n\nyet.\n\nI'm not bored either. Most people I know say that winning the second Cup\nwas better than the first but to me nothing will ever top that first one.\nBut I'm every bit as excited this year and I am experiencing that inner calm\nto which Susan originally referred. Inner calm is not boredom.\n\nAs far as the arena in general being boring, well Richard's got that right.\nIt's been that way all season. I attribute it to a lot of new fans who\njust don't have the same spirit and knowledge as long-time fans. At\nlast Tuesday's game, I overheard a man express surprise that a\ngoaltender can get an\nassist.\n\nAnyone who follows sports with regularity knows that anything can happen\nat any time. I'm confident in the Pens but I'm also not stupid enough to\nthink for one minute that it's impossible for New Jersey to blow them out\nof this series. I doubt that will happen but it's possible. Bored? Uh-uh.\nSpoiled? Not in the least. Forgot what excitement is like? Living through\nthat amazing streak wasn't exciting?! I don't take a darned thing for\ngranted. God, look at Chicago...\n\nAnd I see no problem with quietly savoring all of this anyway. It isn't gonna\nlast forever and I intend to enjoy it while I can. ", " \nI was part of a study a few years ago at the University of Arizona to\nsee whether cross dominant individuals (those with a particular handedness\nbut who had dominance in the opposite eye) were better hitters than\nthose with same side dominance of hand and eye. I was picked from\nmy softball class because I was cross dominant (right hand, left eye)\nwhich put me in a small minority (and the grad student was trying to get\nan equal number of cross dominant and same side dominant people). To\ncontrol the study, she used a pitching machine - fast pitch. Since\nI was used to slow pitch, I didn't come close (actually I think\nI foul tipped a few) to hitting the ball. If there were a lot of people\nlike me in her study (i.e., those who can't hit fast pitch, or are\nnot used to hitting off a machine), I would seriously question the\nresults of that study!! I think there have been some studies of major\nleague players (across a fairly large cross section of players) to test\nwhether eye dominance being the same or opposite side was \"better\" -\nbut I don't know the results. (The woman who ran the study I was in\nsaid that there was a higher incidence of crossdominance in major\nleaguers than across the general population - but I'm not sure\nwhether I'd believe her.)", "Does anyone have the NHL STANDINGS for March 28th? I need them IMMEDIATELY\nfor a project. Please post or email. THANKS.\n\n\n", "\nBoth protests would be denied, of course. The umpire's judgement\ndetermines the garbage thing, although I think the game should be\ncalled (but that's my personal opinion...doesn't matter). There\nis time only when the ump says, so the second argument is baseless.\n", "\nFrom where I come from in Canada, Borshevsky sounds more Canadian than\nSmith! -)\n\nAnyways, crawl back into the hole you crawled out of...the NBA doesn't\ncare where they get basketball players from, major league baseball\ndoesn't give a damn where they get baseball players from (except Cuba,\nthat is).\n\nCanada is in no imminent danger of being overtaken as the primary \nsupplier of players...Sweden, Finland, the Czech Republic, and Slovakia\nare all relatively small countries, and cannot really produce players\nat a greater rate than they are already producing them, and the\npotential influx from the former Soviet Union is severely blunted\nbecause the system has been raided and is starved for finances and\nwill take a decade or two, to recover and become a real threat, and\nthe US will just maintain its slow increase. Canada should continue\nto supply 60% plus of the top hockey players in the world for the\nforseeable future.\n\nBesides we need the European hockey market if hockey is to take\nits rightful place besides soccer as the two predominant world\nsports...and since soccer is essentially boring, unlike hockey.\n\n\nCanadians are under no threat...the European numbers will soon saturate,\nif they haven't already...and by the time Russia comes online again,\nthe NHL should be a world league, and there will be many more teams\nto stock and many more jobs for Canadian hockey players. In the near\nteam, the percentage of Canadians will mostly decline because of \nAmericans, not because of Europeans.\n\n\nCrawl into a hole and die... \n", "This is a general question for US readers:\n\nHow extensive is the playoff coverage down there? In Canada, it is almost\nimpossible not to watch a series on TV (ie the only two series I have not had\nan opportunity to watch this year are Wash-NYI and Chi-Stl, the latter because\nI'm in the wrong time zone!). We (in Canada) are basically swamped with \ncoverage, and I wonder how many series/games are televised nationally or even\nlocally in the US and how much precedence they take over, say, local news if\nthe games go into double-OT.\n\nEmail me so as not to waste bandwidth, please. My news feed is kind of slow\nanyways.", "Pens-6 NJ Devils-6\n\nFIRST PERIOD: SCORING: 1, Pittsburgh, Daniels(Needham, Tippett)4:14.\n2, NJ Devils, C. Lemieux(Semak, Driver)10:19. 3, Pittsburgh, Stevens\n(Tocchet, Murphy)12:40ppg. 4, NJ Devils, Zelepukin(Driver, Niedermayer)\n17:26. PENALTIES: PGH, Stevens(roughing)1:30. NJD, Pellerin-double\nminor(cross-checking)1:30. NJD, Zelepukin(tripping)7:21. NJD,\nStasny(holding)11:15. PGH, Taglianetti(roughing)13:51. NJD, Lemieux\n(roughing)13:51. PGH, Jagr(tripping)15:23.\n\nSECOND PERIOD: SCORING: 5, Pittsburgh, Lemieux(Murphy, Tocchet)1:42.\n6, NJ Devils, Semak(Lemieux, Zelepukin)2:27. 7, Pittsburgh, McEachern\n(Jagr, Barrasso)4:24. 8, NJD, Stevens(Guerin, Pellerin)5:45. 9,\nPittsburgh, Lemieux(unassisted)12:40shg. 10, NJ Devils, Richer\n(Nicholls)15:53. 11, NJ Devils, Lemieux(Zelepukin)17:40. PENALTIES:\nPGH, Stevens(roughing)3:06. NJD, McKay(roughing)3:06. PGH, Mullen\n(hooking)10:42. PGH, Tocchet(roughing)12:06. NJD, Stevens(slashing)\n12:06. NJD, Lemieux(unsportsmanlike conduct)12:40. PGH, U.\nSamuelsson(cross checking)20:00. PGH, Barrasso-double minor(spearing)\nserved by McEachern, 20:00. NJD, Holik(cross checking)20:00. NJD,\nLemieux(roughing)20:00.\n\nTHIRD PERIOD: SCORING: 12, Pittsburgh, Mullen(Jagr, Lemieux)18:54.\nPENALTIES: NJD, Daneyko(interference)3:37. PGH, Stevens(roughing)\n9:18. NJD, Holik(roughing)9:18. PGH, match penalty-game misconduct,9:50.\nNJD, Zelepukin(tripping)12:01. PGH, Stevens(roughing)18:41. NJD,\nDaneyko(roughing)18:41.\n\nOVERTIME: SCORING: No scoring. PENALTIES: No penalties.\n\nSHOTS ON GOAL:\nPittsburgh: 9-11-8-2=30\nNJ Devils: 12-15-9-3=39\n\nGOALIES:\nBarrasso(39 shots, 33 saves. 43-14-5)\nBillington(30 shots, 24 saves)\n\nREF: Devorski Linesmen: Gauthier, Vines", "Someone asked about the rosters for the college hockey senior all-star\nshrine game held in Orono, Maine earlier this month: \n\nWEST\nDerek Plante\t\tMINN-DULUTH\t(west MVP of the game)\nGreg Johnson\t\tN DAKOTA\t\t\nBryan Smolinski\t\tMICH ST\nFred Knipscheer\t\tST CLOUD STATE\nChris Campbell\t\tWISCONSIN-SUPERIOR\nGlenn Lang\t\tUW-SUPERIOR\nChris Bergeron\t\tMIAMI\nJoe Cook\t\tMIAMI\nJamie Erb\t\tBEMIDIJI\nBrett Harkins\t\tBOWLING GREEN\nDavid Roberts\t\tMICHIGAN\nTodd Trettier\t\tUW-STEVENS POINT\nJohn Young\t\tMICH TECH\nBrett Hauer\t\tMINN-DULUTH\nPat Neaton\t\tMICHIGAN\nBarry Richter\t\tWISCONSIN\nMike Smith\t\tLSSU\nChris Valicevic\t\tST MARY'S\nShaun Gravistin\t\tAK-ANCHORAGE\t(goalie)\nTom Newman\t\tMINNESOTA\t \"\nBryan Schoen\t\tDENVER\t\t \"\nRon Mason\t\tMICH ST\t\t(coach)\nSteve Nelson\t\tUW-SUPERIOR\t \"\nJim Knapp\t\tMINN-DULUTH\t \"\n\nEAST\nJack Duffy\t\tYALE\nChris Foy\t\tN'EASTERN\nScott Meehan\t\tMASS-LOWELL\nAaron Miller\t\tVERMONT\nKevin O'SUllivan\tBU\nChris Potter\t\tCONNECTICUT\nRay Alcindor\t\tMIDDLEBURY\nGreg Carvel\t\tST LAWRENCE\nBob Cowan\t\tPROVIDENCE\nSteve Dubinksy\t\tCLARKSON\nDan Gravelle\t\tMERRIMACK\nRyan Hughes\t\tCORNELL\nMark Kauffman\t\tYALE\nMatt Mallgrave\t\tHARVARD\nChris McGee\t\tBABSON\nScott McNair\t\tRIT\nJim Montgomery\t\tMAINE\nDavid Sacco\t\tBU\nChris Rogles\t\tCLARKSON\t(goalie) (East's MVP of the game)\nGarth Snow\t\tMAINE\t\t \"\nGrant Wood\t\tHAMILTON\t \"\nBrian Durocher\t\tBROWN\t\t(coach)\nShawn Walsh\t\tMAINE \t \"\nBruce Marshalll\t\tCONNECTICUT\t \"\n\n\nThese are the original rosters. There may have been a few changes\nfor the actual game (guys not being able to participate or whatever).", "\nAnd not the only quality Mariner pitcher. I logged on expecting to see\nat least ONE congratulatory note for Chris Bosio's NO HITTER, but nary\na peep. \n\nSo I'll take this opportunity to note that the red feet are now 11-5 and\nslinking out of town without having scored a run in the last two games\nor even a hit in last night's gem. \n\nNot that we M's fans can compare our suffering to those of the followers\nof New England's long-running tragedy, but only one winning season in\nhistory is something of a burden to bear. So we'll take our joys when\nwe can get 'em. \n\nThe Mariners now have two no-hit pitchers on the staff and not\ncoincidentally those pitchers beat the Red Sox in back to back games.\n\njsh", "\nBe fair. He did walk 6 batters in 6.1 IP. He also allowed only three\nhits, none for extra bases. Only one run. A pretty good outing, all\ntold.\n\n\nThere is no such thing as a \"must win\" game this early in the season.\nAnd we can always *hope* that Darwin pitches well!", "Here are the standings after game 1 of each of the divisional semi-finals.\n(Hey, look who's #4!) I'll try to post the standings after \"each game\"\n(i.e. every two days).\n\nI managed to recover the email lost up to Saturday night, so all I'm missing\nis mail that arrived between early Saturday morning and Sunday afternoon.\nMany people re-sent their teams, so you may have received two replies back\nfrom me. If your team name is not on this list, please resend your team\nto me and I'll see what I can do. Any kind of \"proof\" you sent it on the\nweekend will help your case. :-) Seriously, this is only a fun pool and\nI trust each person to be honest.\n\nAgain, sorry for any inconvenience, and I hope the pool is still fun for you.\n\n\t- Andrew\n\n\nUSENET Hockey Playoff Draft Standings\n\nPosn\tTeam\t\t\t\tPts\tRem\tLast Posn\n\n1.\tSneddon Scorers 43\t25\t(--)\n2.\tThe Borg 42\t25\t(--)\n\tDave Wessels 42\t25\t(--)\n4.\tBruce's Rented Mules 41\t25\t(--)\n\tGreat Expectations 41\t25\t(--)\n\tHurricane Andrew 41\t25\t(--)\n\tJerky Boys 41\t24\t(--)\n\tHomesick Hawaiian 41\t25\t(--)\n9.\tgive you money monday 40\t25\t(--)\n\tEinstien's Punk Band 40\t25\t(--)\n11.\tZipper Heads 39\t25\t(--)\n\tTapio Repo 39\t25\t(--)\n\tDetroit Homeboy 39\t25\t(--)\n\tthe dead ducks 39\t25\t(--)\n\tMike Burger 39\t25\t(--)\n\tTest Department 39\t25\t(--)\n\tTeam Elvis 39\t25\t(--)\n\tCraig team 39\t25\t(--)\n19.\tSkate or Die 38\t25\t(--)\n\tDebbie Bowles 38\t25\t(--)\n\tFuzzfaces Galore 38\t25\t(--)\n\tsuds 38\t25\t(--)\n\tThe Campi Machine 38\t25\t(--)\n\tzachmans wingers 38\t25\t(--)\n\tSean Forbes 38\t25\t(--)\n\tThreepeat 38\t25\t(--)\n\tFlamming Senators 38\t25\t(--)\n\tTeam Awesome 38\t25\t(--)\n\tA.P. BURY 38\t25\t(--)\n\tPURDUE RICKS PENS 38\t25\t(--)\n\tGB Flyers 38\t25\t(--)\n\tSeppo Kemppainen 38\t25\t(--)\n33.\tPaige Faults 37\t25\t(--)\n\tweenies 37\t25\t(--)\n\tchris roney 37\t25\t(--)\n\tRednecks from Hockey Hell 37\t25\t(--)\n\tDog's Hog's 37\t25\t(--)\n\tMind Sweepers 37\t25\t(--)\n\tTeem Kanada 37\t25\t(--)\n\tNorthern Lights 37\t25\t(--)\n\tFugazi 37\t25\t(--)\n\tDelaware Destroyers 37\t25\t(--)\n\tMopar Muscle Men 37\t25\t(--)\n\tLance Hill The Boston Bruins Fa 37\t25\t(--)\n\tgarryola 37\t25\t(--)\n\tOakville Brothers 37\t25\t(--)\n\tSam & His Dogs 37\t25\t(--)\n\tCluster Buster 37\t24\t(--)\n\tJan Stein 37\t25\t(--)\n\tfrank's little wankers 37\t25\t(--)\n\tMilton Keynes Kings 37\t25\t(--)\n\tThe promise land 37\t25\t(--)\n\tRangers Of Destiny 37\t25\t(--)\n54.\tNew Zealand Leafs 36\t25\t(--)\n\tLoaded Weapons 36\t25\t(--)\n\tBloom County All-Stars 36\t25\t(--)\n\tRobarts Research Rebels 36\t25\t(--)\n\tTiger Chung Lees 36\t25\t(--)\n\tgoddess of fermentation 36\t25\t(--)\n\tmake beliefs 36\t25\t(--)\n\tRob Del Mundo 36\t25\t(--)\n\tHeikki Salmi 36\t25\t(--)\n\tThe Underwriters 36\t25\t(--)\n\tMuller n Walker 36\t25\t(--)\n\tControversy Warriors 36\t25\t(--)\n\tBjorkloven 36\t25\t(--)\n\tNorway Killerwhales 36\t25\t(--)\n\tHolsteins SFB 36\t25\t(--)\n\tbuffalo soldiers 36\t25\t(--)\n\tLemon Pepper Grizzly Bears 36\t25\t(--)\n\tFRACK ATTACK 36\t25\t(--)\n\tHoudini's Magicians 36\t25\t(--)\n\tThe ^&#@$#$% Rangers of 1940 36\t24\t(--)\n\tRangers Blow 36\t25\t(--)\n75.\tDave Hiebert 35\t25\t(--)\n\tYan Loke 35\t25\t(--)\n\tCanadian Gladiators 35\t25\t(--)\n\tlittlest giants 35\t25\t(--)\n\tAlf's All-Stars 35\t25\t(--)\n\tThe Ice Kickers 35\t25\t(--)\n\tBeer Makes Me An Expert 35\t25\t(--)\n\tForce 25 35\t25\t(--)\n\tMr Creosote 35\t25\t(--)\n\tThe Goobmeister 35\t25\t(--)\n\tThe Mulberry Maulers 35\t25\t(--)\n\tRev's Rebels 35\t25\t(--)\n\tBOSSE 35\t25\t(--)\n\tZippety Doodah 35\t25\t(--)\n\tKramer George and Jerry 35\t25\t(--)\n\tDehraDun Maawalis 35\t25\t(--)\n\tSludge 35\t25\t(--)\n\tj's rock'em sock'ems 35\t25\t(--)\n\tbrians bloodletters 35\t25\t(--)\n\tGrant Marven 35\t25\t(--)\n\tArctic Circles 35\t25\t(--)\n\tall the kane's men 35\t25\t(--)\n\ttrevor's triumph 35\t25\t(--)\n\tMark And Steve Dreaming Again 35\t25\t(--)\n\tGoaldingers 35\t25\t(--)\n\tBjoern Leaguen 35\t25\t(--)\n\tHabs Playing Golf 35\t25\t(--)\n102.\tShigella 34\t25\t(--)\n\tNew Jersey Rob 34\t25\t(--)\n\tSteves Superstars 34\t25\t(--)\n\tBig Bay Bombers 34\t25\t(--)\n\tDoug Bowles 34\t25\t(--)\n\tNeural Netters 34\t25\t(--)\n\tLIPPE 34\t25\t(--)\n\tLets Go Pandas 34\t25\t(--)\n\tLes Raisins 34\t25\t(--)\n\tDaves knee jerk picks 34\t25\t(--)\n\tMonica Loke 34\t25\t(--)\n\tJason team 34\t25\t(--)\n\tRENEB 34\t25\t(--)\n\tSchott Shooters 34\t25\t(--)\n\tGilles Carmel 34\t25\t(--)\n\tLewey's Lakers 34\t25\t(--)\n\tsmithw 34\t25\t(--)\n\tEast City Jokers 34\t25\t(--)\n\tDaryl Turner 34\t25\t(--)\n\tDoug Mraz 34\t25\t(--)\n\tSkriko Wolves 34\t25\t(--)\n\tIceMachine 34\t25\t(--)\n\tLamp Lighters 34\t25\t(--)\n\tOn Thin Ice 34\t25\t(--)\n\tJOE'S A CRAK HEAD 34\t25\t(--)\n127.\tSamuel Lau (Calgary, Alberta) 33\t25\t(--)\n\tComfortably Numb 33\t25\t(--)\n\tReksa fans of Oulu 33\t25\t(--)\n\tGail Hiebert 33\t25\t(--)\n\tgee man 33\t25\t(--)\n\tBut Wait Theres more 33\t25\t(--)\n\tmarcs maulers 33\t25\t(--)\n\tDanielle Leblanc 33\t25\t(--)\n\tBobby Schmautz Fan Club 33\t25\t(--)\n\tOttawa Bearcats 33\t25\t(--)\n\tBoops Bets 33\t25\t(--)\n\ttriple X 33\t25\t(--)\n\tTimo Ojala 33\t25\t(--)\n\tFlying pigs 33\t25\t(--)\n141.\tThe Eradicators 32\t25\t(--)\n\tVan Isle Colonists 32\t25\t(--)\n\tCommitments 32\t25\t(--)\n\tbure's blur 32\t25\t(--)\n\tGreat Scott 32\t25\t(--)\n\tweasels 32\t25\t(--)\n\tTequila Shooters 32\t25\t(--)\n\tWhiters 32\t25\t(--)\n\tFrasses Faceplants 32\t25\t(--)\n\tHigh Stickers 32\t25\t(--)\n\tMak Paranjape 32\t25\t(--)\n\tLord Stanley's Favourites 32\t25\t(--)\n\tSan Jose Mahi Mahi 32\t25\t(--)\n\tOz 32\t25\t(--)\n\tE.I.S 32\t25\t(--)\n\tMann Mariners 32\t24\t(--)\n\tJFZ Dream Team 32\t25\t(--)\n\tStacey Ross 32\t25\t(--)\n\tLouisiana Psycho Killers 32\t25\t(--)\n\tLa Coupe Stainless 32\t25\t(--)\n161.\tfighting amish 31\t25\t(--)\n\tEvan Pritchard 31\t25\t(--)\n\tStanias Stars 31\t25\t(--)\n\tPens Dynasty 31\t25\t(--)\n\toceanweavers 31\t25\t(--)\n\tgo go gagit 31\t25\t(--)\n\tMyllypuro Hedgehogs 31\t25\t(--)\n\tArm & Hammer 31\t25\t(--)\n\tLegzryx 31\t25\t(--)\n\tChapman Chaps 31\t25\t(--)\n\tDean Martin 31\t25\t(--)\n\tCherry Bombers 31\t25\t(--)\n173.\tSluggo's Hosers 30\t25\t(--)\n\tAnson Mak 30\t25\t(--)\n\tKnights on a Power Play 30\t25\t(--)\n176.\tCanuck Force 29\t25\t(--)\n\tbutt ends 29\t25\t(--)\n\tbeam team 29\t25\t(--)\n\tJUKURIT 29\t25\t(--)\n\tChapman Sticks 29\t25\t(--)\n\tKen De Cruyenaere 29\t25\t(--)\n\tgax goons 29\t25\t(--)\n\tTampere Salami 29\t25\t(--)\n\tSparky's Select 29\t25\t(--)\n185.\tHillside Raiders 28\t25\t(--)\n\tEldoret Elephants 28\t25\t(--)\n\tJane's World 28\t25\t(--)\n\tthe ALarmers 28\t25\t(--)\n189.\tRolaids Required 27\t25\t(--)\n\tChip n Dale 27\t25\t(--)\n\tBrian Bergman 27\t25\t(--)\n192.\tKiller Kings 26\t25\t(--)\n\tMontys Nords 26\t25\t(--)\n194.\tArsenal Maple Leafs 25\t18\t(--)\n\tMartin's Gag 25\t25\t(--)\n196.\tEquipe Du Jour 24\t25\t(--)\n197.\tlisa's luggers 23\t25\t(--)\n\n-- \nAndrew Scott | andrew@idacom.hp.com\nHP IDACOM Telecom Operation | (403) 462-0666 ext. 253", "\nWhat is the policy regarding players and the minor league playoffs versus WC?\nI know that the Rangers are holding back Kovalev, Zubov, and Andersson for\nBinghamton, but I also know that the Whalers wanted Michael Nylander to play\nfor Springfield, while Nylander wanted to play for Sweden. The Whalers allowed\nthe NHL to decide, and the NHL chose the WCs. How does this differ from the\nRangers and Oilers? Did the Whalers have to go through the league, or could\nthey have forced Nylander to play in Springfield?", "\n\nEr..yes. If Manny Lee was on your team last year, your team would have been\nthe Toronto Blue Jays.\n\n\nAgain. If Manny Lee was on your team last year your team would not have been\nthe Albuquerque Leftturns. It would have been the Toronto Blue Jays.\n\n\nThat's the whole point isn't it? Clemens didn't get a ring but Morris did.\n\n\nExactly. And Morris was part of the team. Would the Jays have won with \nClemens? We will never know. But we do know that the Jays won with Morris.\nSo how could you possibly say that Clemens had a better year? No pitcher\nin baseball could have had a better year than Morris had last year.\n\n\n-- ", "\nI'd personally prefer Buffalo-Boston, as a birthday gift from ESPN,\nbut I don't think the folks at ESPN will accomodate that for me ;-)\nESPN has this inexplicable affinity for the Patrick division, it\nseems. \n", "United States TV Schedule:\nApril 18 Devils/Islanders at Pittsburgh 1 EST ABC (to Eastern time zone)\nApril 18 St. Louis at Chicago 12 CDT ABC (to Cent/Mou time zones)\nApril 18 Los Angeles at Calgary 12 PDT ABC (to Pacific time zone)\nApril 20 Devils/Islanders at Pittsburgh 7:30 ESPN\nApril 22 TBA 7:30 ESPN\nApril 24 TBA 7:30 ESPN\n\nIf somebody would send me the CBC/TSN schedule I'll post that as well.\n", "\n\n\nSandberg is not particulary known for his stolen bases. What competition did \nAlomar have? Sandberg came in a year after Ripken, and the same year as Boggs,\nGwynn, and the other magicians. So less attention was given to Sandberg. \nAlomar is the only one in his class to be worth a mediocre. Besides the \nnumbers don't count. National league pitchers are much better pitchers. \n\nLarry on someone elses account \n--", "Here are the standings after the April 6 update. I'll be leaving for Japan\nin 1.5 hours, and I won't be back until April 17. Consequently, I will not\npost the week 27 results until April 18. Email sent between April 13 and\nApril 18 will be processed using the numbers available April 18.\n\n\t- Andrew\n\nUSENET Hockey Draft Standings\nWeek 26\n\nPosn\tTeam\t\t\t\tPts\tProj\tCash\tLast Posn\n\n1.\tDave Wessels 1478\t1575.3\t1.9\t(1)\n2.\tGilles Carmel 1389\t1533.8\t56.3\t(5)\n3.\tBob Hill 1418\t1530.8\t24.0\t(2)\n4.\tThe Awesome Oilers 1366\t1509.9\t68.6\t(3)\n5.\tSeppo Kemppainen 1372\t1508.9\t47.2\t(6)\n6.\tMak \"The Knife\" Paranjape 1376\t1501.8\t31.0\t(4)\n7.\tHillside Raiders 1397\t1490.7\t7.0\t(7)\n8.\tJan Stein 1354\t1478.8\t35.3\t(9)\n9.\tRangers Of Destiny 1346\t1472.5\t42.0\t(10)\n10.\tthis years model 1368\t1471.8\t17.6\t(8)\n11.\tTapio Repo 1354\t1461.0\t19.6\t(12)\n12.\tFRANK'S BIG FISH 1341\t1448.3\t22.0\t(14)\n13.\tThe Underachievers 1309\t1446.5\t65.4\t(16)\n14.\tOn Thin Ice 1333\t1445.5\t32.3\t(11)\n15.\tLindros Losers 1349\t1436.9\t1.7\t(13)\n16.\tlittlest giants 1319\t1435.7\t35.6\t(15)\n17.\tGo Flames 1290\t1422.6\t64.4\t(17)\n18.\tMopar Muscle Men 1328\t1411.7\t3.7\t(19)\n19.\tDIE Penguin Bandwaggoners 1304\t1409.7\t20.2\t(18)\n20.\tSamuel Lau (Calgary, Alberta) 1298\t1383.2\t4.9\t(21)\n21.\tGeneral Accounting Office 1272\t1373.8\t20.9\t(22)\n22.\tMigods Menschen 1259\t1367.0\t31.6\t(20)\n23.\tBoomer's Boys 1285\t1366.1\t0.2\t(23)\n24.\tDelaware Wombats 1285\t1356.2\t1.3\t(24)\n25.\tWellsy's Buttheads DEC NH 1223\t1354.4\t52.6\t(27)\n26.\tRocky Mountain High 1270\t1349.3\t1.8\t(29)\n27.\tFife Flyers 1232\t1346.3\t31.4\t(26)\n28.\tGerald Olchowy 1231\t1343.0\t33.7\t(25)\n29.\tFluide Glacial 1246\t1338.5\t18.0\t(28)\n30.\tGaoler 1227\t1318.3\t11.2\t(30)\n31.\tSmegHeads 1238\t1313.0\t0.3\t(32)\n32.\tThe Young And The Skateless 1185\t1299.7\t42.9\t(31)\n33.\tArtic Storm 1179\t1291.8\t39.3\t(43)\n34.\tSam & His Dogs 1206\t1289.0\t11.6\t(33)\n35.\tNeural Netters 1199\t1287.9\t11.3\t(35)\n36.\tYoungbucs 1157\t1286.6\t101.7\t(34)\n37.\tSoft Swedes 1154\t1275.3\t46.9\t(58)\n38.\tJeff Horvath 1188\t1262.7\t5.6\t(39)\n39.\tYan The Man Loke 1180\t1261.3\t0.7\t(40)\n40.\tMilton Keynes Kings 1180\t1259.6\t2.8\t(42)\n41.\tHamster from Hoboken 1178\t1257.5\t8.7\t(36)\n42.\tLe Fleur de Lys 1159\t1257.3\t25.3\t(46)\n43.\tice legion 1157\t1256.6\t28.8\t(37)\n44.\tSimmonac 1133\t1254.4\t87.6\t(44)\n45.\tKuehn Crushers 1137\t1253.1\t45.1\t(72)\n46.\tThe Finnish Force 1149\t1249.4\t22.5\t(48)\n47.\tStreaks 1117\t1247.1\t54.8\t(38)\n48.\tLegion of Hoth 1156\t1246.3\t15.8\t(52)\n49.\tGoaldingers 1146\t1240.6\t22.0\t(45)\n50.\tGrant Marven 1155\t1236.0\t2.9\t(50)\n51.\tbemybaby 1161\t1235.2\t7.3\t(49)\n52.\tT C OverAchievers 1162\t1232.8\t2.9\t(47)\n53.\tSkriko Wolves 1151\t1232.4\t5.4\t(53)\n54.\tBozrah Bruins 1117\t1230.7\t45.2\t(41)\n55.\tBrian Bergman 1132\t1229.3\t23.3\t(51)\n56.\tLIPPE 1132\t1214.7\t13.9\t(65)\n57.\tRandy Coulman 1140\t1214.5\t5.2\t(56)\n58.\tLAMP LIGHTERS 1138\t1214.2\t5.9\t(66)\n59.\tDave Snell 1089\t1212.5\t182.5\t(60)\n60.\tSteven And Mark Dream Team 1133\t1210.6\t3.1\t(53)\n61.\tHoudini's Magicians 1126\t1209.9\t18.3\t(59)\n62.\tReal Bad Toe Jam 1096\t1208.6\t48.9\t(63)\n63.\trec.sport.hockey choices 1137\t1208.3\t1.3\t(63)\n64.\tIowa Hockeyes 1118\t1205.7\t16.3\t(55)\n65.\tbuffalo soldiers 1085\t1204.6\t62.1\t(57)\n66.\tIndianapolis Bennies 1114\t1200.6\t20.8\t(67)\n67.\tBloom County All Stars 1121\t1199.2\t4.3\t(61)\n68.\tTom 1109\t1194.0\t13.1\t(68)\n69.\tPhil and Kev's Karma Dudes 1121\t1192.6\t0.8\t(69)\n70.\tAIK Exiles 1078\t1188.1\t34.5\t(70)\n71.\tDoug Bowles 1099\t1186.4\t20.0\t(62)\n72.\tBruins 1117\t1184.9\t0.1\t(75)\n73.\tsmithw 1095\t1184.3\t21.0\t(71)\n74.\tThe Great Pumpkin 1057\t1178.6\t54.4\t(73)\n75.\tshooting seamen 1111\t1177.8\t0.1\t(77)\n76.\tFrank Worthless 1099\t1176.6\t6.3\t(82)\n77.\tNON! 1089\t1175.7\t16.4\t(74)\n78.\tInvisible Inc 1104\t1173.5\t1.1\t(79)\n79.\tBrad Gibson 1075\t1169.0\t27.2\t(89)\n80.\tChubby Checkers 1074\t1165.6\t16.3\t(85)\n81.\tPLP Fools 1092\t1164.8\t0.1\t(76)\n82.\tJohn Zupancic 1063\t1164.2\t27.1\t(78)\n83.\tStaffan Axelsson 1082\t1163.0\t15.1\t(80)\n84.\tDavid Wong 1038\t1162.5\t66.1\t(87)\n85.\tKortelaisen Kovat 1041\t1160.7\t164.1\t(92)\n86.\tChocolate Rockets 1083\t1158.9\t2.5\t(83)\n87.\tKen DeCruyenaere 1078\t1158.8\t5.0\t(94)\n88.\tCougarmania 1061\t1154.7\t24.8\t(86)\n89.\tgarryola 1073\t1152.9\t9.7\t(81)\n90.\tDerrill's Dastardly Dozen 1062\t1149.6\t22.1\t(88)\n91.\tNo Namers 1033\t1147.6\t58.2\t(91)\n92.\tThe Campi Machine 1022\t1145.8\t65.3\t(90)\n93.\tGary Bergman Fan Club 1071\t1145.1\t5.1\t(98)\n94.\tFisher Dirtbags 1073\t1144.1\t0.7\t(93)\n95.\tKODIAKS 1076\t1141.0\t1.3\t(84)\n96.\tArsenal Maple Leafs 1066\t1136.0\t3.8\t(99)\n97.\tThe Kamucks 1020\t1134.1\t76.1\t(105)\n98.\tBSC Oranienburg 1067\t1132.1\t7.1\t(102)\n99.\tBloodgamers 1018\t1127.1\t42.1\t(97)\n100.\tEllis Islanders 1055\t1125.5\t7.6\t(100)\n101.\tMombasa Mosquitos 1053\t1125.4\t6.1\t(95)\n102.\tEdelweiss 1049\t1122.8\t2.9\t(101)\n103.\tZachmans Wingers 1006\t1117.7\t49.8\t(103)\n104.\tWormtown Woosbags 1001\t1114.6\t72.6\t(96)\n105.\tDirty White Socks 1008\t1113.6\t43.4\t(106)\n106.\tHurricane Andrew 1040\t1113.5\t7.6\t(104)\n107.\tLarry 1034\t1113.2\t11.8\t(109)\n108.\tVoteNoOct26 1010\t1108.5\t31.8\t(108)\n\tBruce's Rented Mules 1033\t1108.5\t11.9\t(110)\n110.\tKing Suke 1042\t1108.2\t0.1\t(112)\n111.\tTeem Kanada 1030\t1105.3\t16.0\t(115)\n112.\tBjoern Leaguen 987\t1104.7\t61.4\t(123)\n113.\tFrank's Follies 1020\t1101.2\t24.2\t(117)\n114.\tNeil Younger 985\t1100.9\t77.7\t(120)\n115.\tHet Schot Is Hard 1027\t1100.8\t18.1\t(121)\n116.\tPSV Dartmouth 1033\t1100.7\t7.1\t(107)\n117.\tPond Slime 1034\t1096.8\t0.7\t(111)\n118.\tStanford Ice Hawks 1008\t1096.5\t28.2\t(114)\n119.\tSPUDS 1019\t1096.4\t12.6\t(113)\n120.\tMark Sanders 1020\t1091.9\t11.1\t(116)\n121.\tOklahoma Stormchasers 1004\t1089.9\t28.3\t(137)\n122.\tTimo Ojala 1015\t1084.2\t0.3\t(130)\n123.\tNesbitt 1025\t1083.0\t1.1\t(118)\n124.\tAye Carumba!!! 1016\t1082.4\t3.9\t(124)\n125.\tKokudo Keikaku Bunnies 976\t1081.2\t40.3\t(119)\n126.\tBlue Talon 1007\t1080.0\t13.3\t(129)\n127.\tApricot Fuzzfaces 1001\t1078.3\t23.3\t(125)\n128.\tHaral 1013\t1077.8\t7.3\t(122)\n129.\tgarys team 995\t1076.5\t17.1\t(126)\n130.\tLate Night with David Letterman 1013\t1075.3\t0.0\t(133)\n131.\tArctic Circles 974\t1075.2\t37.6\t(132)\n132.\tThe Lost Poots 1000\t1072.9\t6.7\t(127)\n\tSeattle PFTB 988\t1072.9\t22.9\t(134)\n134.\tboutch 92-93 987\t1071.5\t20.0\t(135)\n135.\tDirty Rotten Puckers 1001\t1071.2\t1.2\t(147)\n136.\tFlying Kiwis 998\t1069.8\t9.1\t(130)\n\tCluster Buster 996\t1069.8\t7.6\t(136)\n138.\tScott Glenn 999\t1068.7\t10.2\t(142)\n139.\tDree Hobbs 988\t1068.5\t13.4\t(146)\n140.\tGO BRUINS 999\t1066.6\t6.2\t(144)\n141.\tLe Groupe MI 975\t1065.4\t30.2\t(141)\n142.\tteam gold 992\t1065.1\t16.7\t(128)\n143.\tCloset Boy's Boys 955\t1063.4\t48.0\t(140)\n144.\tGary Bill Pens Dynasty 982\t1063.2\t19.6\t(151)\n\tMcKees Rocks Rockers 998\t1063.2\t5.1\t(151)\n146.\tTim Rogers 987\t1061.9\t8.1\t(148)\n147.\tAndy Y F WONG 982\t1061.1\t21.5\t(143)\n148.\tButtered Waffles 947\t1059.6\t46.0\t(145)\n149.\tBob's Blues 951\t1059.2\t46.8\t(139)\n150.\tPrinceton Canucks 945\t1058.9\t124.2\t(154)\n151.\tGO HABS GO 989\t1058.7\t8.0\t(149)\n152.\tWembley LostWeekenders 998\t1057.6\t0.3\t(157)\n153.\tWild Hearted Sons 993\t1057.5\t4.9\t(138)\n154.\tEinstein's Rock Band 994\t1054.8\t0.0\t(160)\n155.\tTap 989\t1053.0\t0.5\t(150)\n156.\tGoddess Of Fermentation 964\t1051.0\t30.2\t(156)\n157.\tHUNTERS & COLLECTORS 945\t1050.6\t42.4\t(163)\n158.\tDr Joel Fleishman 985\t1048.7\t3.7\t(159)\n159.\tfurleys furies 983\t1048.6\t3.6\t(153)\n160.\tconvex stars 979\t1047.9\t5.6\t(161)\n161.\tLes Nordiques 939\t1046.9\t60.4\t(155)\n162.\tMY TEAM 932\t1045.3\t174.8\t(167)\n163.\tHubert's Hockey Homeboys 980\t1043.9\t0.6\t(162)\n\tBook 'em Danno's Bushbabies 977\t1043.9\t10.5\t(169)\n165.\triding the pine 956\t1038.7\t20.7\t(158)\n166.\tSundogs 975\t1037.1\t0.4\t(166)\n167.\tJeff Nimeroff 927\t1037.0\t48.8\t(172)\n168.\tSlap Shot Marco 930\t1036.0\t51.8\t(164)\n169.\tDaryl Turner 976\t1035.8\t2.4\t(179)\n170.\tThe Dreamers 921\t1033.1\t63.7\t(180)\n171.\tEast City Jokers 919\t1031.6\t69.1\t(173)\n172.\tFlowers 921\t1031.4\t113.6\t(168)\n173.\tSatan's Choice 961\t1030.1\t14.5\t(171)\n174.\tThe Leafs Rule!!!! 943\t1030.0\t25.8\t(165)\n175.\tPierre Mailhot 969\t1029.9\t2.6\t(174)\n176.\tvoyageurs 968\t1029.4\t2.7\t(170)\n177.\tSpinal Tap 928\t1029.1\t41.4\t(176)\n178.\tSan Jose Mahi Mahi 939\t1026.7\t31.8\t(185)\n\tStimpy ADG Zeta 949\t1026.7\t21.0\t(182)\n180.\tJeff Bachovchin 916\t1024.7\t46.7\t(175)\n181.\tBulldogs 941\t1024.5\t23.4\t(184)\n182.\tLANA Inc 940\t1021.0\t27.3\t(177)\n183.\tBig Bad Bruins 939\t1020.6\t18.5\t(186)\n184.\tMike Mac Cormack Sydney NS CAN 904\t1019.1\t107.2\t(183)\n185.\tDarse Billings 925\t1017.8\t34.7\t(178)\n186.\tChappel's Chumps 934\t1017.6\t24.0\t(181)\n187.\tJimParker 903\t1014.5\t179.0\t(192)\n188.\tRepublican Dirty Tricksters 894\t1008.0\t66.0\t(189)\n189.\tEnforcers 924\t1007.8\t28.1\t(191)\n190.\tAbsolut Lehigh 937\t1007.7\t8.9\t(190)\n191.\tYellow Plague 933\t1005.0\t14.2\t(187)\n192.\tDr.D And The S.O.D. 929\t1003.8\t17.1\t(198)\n193.\tBunch of Misfits 916\t1003.3\t23.8\t(188)\n194.\tNinja Turtles 942\t1000.8\t1.3\t(194)\n195.\tGreat Expectations 934\t999.3\t2.3\t(196)\n196.\tCherry Bombers 939\t998.1\t1.2\t(200)\n197.\tHenry's Bar B Q 941\t998.0\t0.7\t(195)\n198.\tRobyns Team 907\t993.5\t30.0\t(198)\n199.\tTeam Melville 891\t991.8\t46.9\t(202)\n200.\tUmpire 4 life 919\t990.9\t11.1\t(193)\n201.\tAcadien 914\t988.9\t18.3\t(197)\n202.\tKaufbeuren Icebreakers 894\t988.2\t37.6\t(207)\n203.\tFirebirds 926\t986.5\t3.9\t(201)\n204.\tJayson's Kinky Pucks 904\t986.1\t26.9\t(203)\n205.\tCobra's Killers 891\t982.5\t31.7\t(208)\n206.\tOutlaws 871\t981.6\t164.9\t(206)\n207.\tKuta Papercuts 912\t981.5\t18.5\t(204)\n208.\tKiller Apes 902\t979.9\t24.3\t(205)\n209.\tDARMAN'S Dragons 896\t979.4\t28.3\t(211)\n210.\tRoger Smith 882\t978.2\t39.6\t(212)\n211.\tThose 1st few weeks hurt! 862\t975.1\t55.9\t(210)\n212.\tThundering Herd 860\t972.8\t163.6\t(218)\n213.\tIKEA Wholesale 910\t970.2\t1.7\t(214)\n214.\tBelieve it or dont 895\t968.7\t21.1\t(215)\n215.\tfred mckim 861\t966.8\t93.0\t(217)\n216.\t400 Hurricane 880\t966.4\t32.1\t(216)\n217.\tCreeping Death 886\t965.0\t21.3\t(220)\n218.\tKnee Injuries 897\t964.9\t10.4\t(213)\n219.\tThe 200 Club 902\t964.7\t6.8\t(209)\n220.\tCrazy Euros 888\t962.1\t17.9\t(219)\n221.\tFrack Attack 875\t961.8\t27.3\t(226)\n222.\tTodd's Turkeys 898\t957.0\t1.9\t(229)\n223.\tRyan's Renegades 858\t956.4\t50.9\t(225)\n224.\tCafall and Crew 862\t955.9\t38.3\t(222)\n225.\tpig vomit 894\t955.2\t1.3\t(227)\n226.\tIce Strykers 848\t954.4\t105.4\t(221)\n227.\tFighting Geordies 850\t954.1\t141.6\t(223)\n228.\tCDN Stuck in Alabama 886\t945.7\t10.3\t(231)\n229.\tShip's Way 884\t943.4\t8.7\t(233)\n230.\tSwillbellies 870\t942.8\t18.7\t(228)\n231.\tOz 851\t941.8\t35.0\t(235)\n232.\tChris of Death 835\t939.3\t83.6\t(234)\n233.\tBanko's Beer Rangers 875\t938.6\t4.2\t(230)\n234.\tNY Flames 872\t938.1\t7.8\t(232)\n235.\tLaubsters II 828\t937.4\t201.6\t(237)\n236.\tdayton bomber 882\t935.1\t0.0\t(241)\n237.\tZipper Heads 847\t931.7\t33.9\t(224)\n238.\tNinja Bunnies 826\t928.1\t44.9\t(236)\n239.\tJoliet Inmates 832\t926.0\t45.8\t(239)\n240.\tWidefield White Wolves 832\t924.1\t36.9\t(242)\n241.\tDaves Team 834\t920.9\t32.0\t(238)\n242.\tGreat Scott 814\t917.8\t73.3\t(240)\n243.\tSouth Carolina Tiger Paws 806\t915.1\t78.4\t(243)\n244.\tSANDY'S SABRES 854\t910.8\t4.7\t(245)\n245.\tFlorida Tech Burgh Team 809\t904.6\t49.3\t(250)\n246.\tThe Ice Holes 850\t903.9\t2.7\t(246)\n247.\tLeos Blue Chips 845\t902.9\t10.4\t(244)\n248.\tFor xtc 837\t897.8\t8.2\t(248)\n249.\troadrunners 826\t895.9\t18.5\t(249)\n250.\tMudville Kings 816\t894.0\t27.6\t(251)\n251.\tRedliners 820\t890.8\t15.9\t(253)\n252.\tPat Phillips 827\t889.1\t10.1\t(247)\n253.\tNew Jersey Rob 835\t883.0\t0.7\t(252)\n254.\tStewart Clamen 821\t869.4\t1.6\t(255)\n255.\tDemon Spawn 782\t860.1\t25.0\t(254)\n256.\tSunnyvale Storm 772\t813.5\t0.2\t(256)\n257.\tAllez les Blues 713\t810.7\t476.9\t(257)\n258.\tUp For Sale Hockey Club 725\t795.0\t23.0\t(260)\n259.\tPetes Picks 689\t788.1\t168.5\t(258)\n260.\tRINACO 682\t781.6\t114.0\t(259)\n261.\tBrenz Revenge 669\t718.5\t4.0\t(261)\n262.\tDinamo Riga 571\t663.8\t571.6\t(262)\n-- \nAndrew Scott | andrew@idacom.hp.com\nHP IDACOM Telecom Operation | (403) 462-0666 ext. 253", "Can anyone out there tell me Babe Ruth's complete pitching stats? I know he\nwas 5-0 as a pitcher for the Yankees, but what were his numbers when he was\nwith the Red Sox? Thanks in advance!", "Just to add to this vein, consider that range of a first baseman is not\nthe only important thing. He is IMO the best fielder of bad throws from\nthe other infielders. I have seen him scoop balls out of the dirt, catch\nballs off a large bounce, take down balls over his head, wide, etc. ad\ninfinitum. *And* he gets the out, much of the time. Some of the things\nhe does to save his infielders of errors are amazing. You have to give\nMattingly credit for being able to do all of that while keeping his foot\nnear the bag (yes, I am sure he gets a few calls because he is Mattingly :-)\n", "\n\n Not bad, you only got 2 wrong,...\n Cal over Chi in 5\n and Cal over Pit in 6 (or 7) to take the SC", "\nMessier was not invited due to his nagging injuries. While the press\nmade an issue of it, and attempted to link it to the Rangers' internal\npolitical woes, Mike Keenan repeated that to Messier personally during\nthe MSG press conference. It makes sense ... Messier would probably\nhave not declined the invitation if it were made for publicity ...\n\ngld", "\tSo, if the Braves run production falls to 1 per game, which is\ncertainly where it's headed (if they're lucky), does that mean they'll finish\nfirst?\n", "\ne,\n\nIf memory serves me well, Alicea hit it, and damn near tied the game.\nTorre obviously knows his players better than you do. \n\n\nSee y'all at the ballyard\nGo Braves\nChop Chop\n\nMichael Mule'\n", "\nThe first time I heard this piece of news was on the post game radio\ninterview here in Jyvaskyla. That was the bronze medal game in the \nSM-liiga which Tichonov's team Porin Assat (the Aces of town Pori:)\nlost. Vasili, the son of Victor Tichonov (the famous Soviet coach),\nsaid that for a long time the Sharks have been persuading him to\ntake the assistant coach post. But he wants to be the head coach where\never he goes. He definitely won't be coaching Assat anymore (after\nthree? seasons). I don't know why.\n\nVasili is a good coach I believe. Assat was a good team, produced many\nplayers to our national team. Assat wasn't a skilled team (IMHO) but\nthey had the fighting spirit. After all, they butchered Jokerit in the\nplayoffs and gave hard time to TPS, the champs. But Assat wasn't\nconsistent, only when they were in the right mood they could beat any\nteam in the SM-liiga.\n\nI am not 100% sure about the deal with the Sharks. As I said, he wants\nto be the head coach. But he and the Sharks are going to negotiate and\ndecide during the WC. I doubt that he will be the head coach but\nmaybe they'll do some compromise.", "Sabres are\nFuhr or\nknow much\n\n\nTwo words: Grant Fuhr.", "Why are the Red Sox in first place? Eight games into the season, they\nalready have two wins each from Clemens and Viola. Clemens starts\nagain tonight, on three days rest.\n\nWhat's up? Are the Sox going with a four-man rotation? Is this why\nHesketh was used in relief last night?\n\nHm.", "FINAL 1992-93 AMERICAN HOCKEY LEAGUE STANDINGS\n\nNORTHERN DIVISION\tW\tL\tT\tPTS\tGF\tGA\tLYF*\nProvidence Bruins\t46\t32\t2\t94\t384\t348\t56\nAdirondack Red Wings\t36\t35\t9\t81\t331\t308\t84\nCapital District Isles\t34\t34\t12\t80\t280\t285\t75\nSpringfield Indians\t25\t41\t14\t64\t282\t336\t94\nNew Haven Senators\t22\t47\t11\t55\t262\t343\t--\n\nSOUTHERN DIVISION\tW\tL\tT\tPTS\tGF\tGA\tLYF\nBinghamton Rangers\t57\t13\t10\t124#\t392\t246\t91\nRochester Americans\t40\t33\t7\t87\t348\t332\t86\nUtica Devils\t\t33\t36\t11\t77\t325\t354\t74\nBaltimore Skipjacks\t28\t40\t12\t68\t318\t353\t66\nHershey Bears\t\t27\t41\t12\t66\t316\t339\t83\nHamilton Canucks\t29\t45\t6\t64\t284\t327\t--\n\nATLANTIC DIVISION\tW\tL\tT\tPTS\tGF\tGA\tLYF\nSt John's Maple Leafs\t41\t26\t13\t95\t351\t308\t90\nFredericton Canadiens\t38\t31\t11\t87\t314\t278\t96\nCape Breton Oilers\t36\t32\t12\t84\t356\t336\t82\nMoncton Hawks\t\t31\t33\t16\t78\t292\t306\t74\nHalifax Citadels\t33\t37\t10\t76\t312\t348\t67\n\n*- Last year's point total\n#- League record total\t\t\t", "Here are the final stadings for the USENET Hockey Draft. Congratulations\nto this year's winner, Dave Wessels of Victoria, B.C., who parlayed his\ninitial 1000 points into 1575.9 points!\n\nThanks to all 262 teams for entering the biggest USENET Hockey Draft ever!\nI hope to hear from you all again this September, for the 7th Annual draft.\n\nIt has been my pleasure running the draft, and I hope you all had fun.\n\n\t- Andrew\n\nUSENET Hockey Draft Standings\nWeek 28\n\nPosn\tTeam\t\t\t\tTotal\tPts\tCash\tLast Posn\n\n1.\tDave Wessels 1575.9\t1574\t1.9\t(1)\n2.\tGilles Carmel 1539.0\t1538\t1.0\t(3)\n\tBob Hill 1539.0\t1515\t24.0\t(2)\n4.\tSeppo Kemppainen 1515.2\t1468\t47.2\t(4)\n5.\tThe Awesome Oilers 1513.0\t1458\t68.6\t(5)\n6.\tHillside Raiders 1503.0\t1496\t7.0\t(6)\n7.\tMak \"The Knife\" Paranjape 1500.0\t1469\t31.0\t(7)\n8.\tJan Stein 1492.3\t1457\t35.3\t(8)\n9.\tthis years model 1488.6\t1471\t17.6\t(9)\n10.\tTapio Repo 1486.6\t1467\t19.6\t(10)\n11.\tRangers Of Destiny 1486.0\t1444\t42.0\t(10)\n12.\tThe Underachievers 1459.1\t1449\t10.1\t(13)\n13.\tFRANK'S BIG FISH 1457.0\t1435\t22.0\t(12)\n14.\tGo Flames 1448.3\t1408\t40.3\t(15)\n15.\tOn Thin Ice 1444.3\t1412\t32.3\t(14)\n16.\tMopar Muscle Men 1441.7\t1438\t3.7\t(17)\n17.\tlittlest giants 1439.6\t1404\t35.6\t(16)\n18.\tLindros Losers 1427.7\t1426\t1.7\t(18)\n19.\tDIE Penguin Bandwaggoners 1412.2\t1392\t20.2\t(19)\n20.\tSamuel Lau (Calgary, Alberta) 1401.9\t1397\t4.9\t(20)\n21.\tBoomer's Boys 1374.2\t1374\t0.2\t(21)\n22.\tDelaware Wombats 1372.3\t1371\t1.3\t(23)\n23.\tGeneral Accounting Office 1365.9\t1345\t20.9\t(22)\n24.\tMigods Menschen 1365.6\t1334\t31.6\t(24)\n25.\tWellsy's Buttheads DEC NH 1363.6\t1311\t52.6\t(25)\n26.\tFife Flyers 1356.4\t1325\t31.4\t(27)\n27.\tRocky Mountain High 1352.8\t1351\t1.8\t(26)\n28.\tDave Snell 1346.0\t1321\t25.0\t(29)\n29.\tFluide Glacial 1341.0\t1323\t18.0\t(30)\n30.\tGerald Olchowy 1337.7\t1304\t33.7\t(28)\n31.\tGaoler 1317.2\t1306\t11.2\t(31)\n32.\tSmegHeads 1316.3\t1316\t0.3\t(32)\n33.\tNeural Netters 1309.3\t1298\t11.3\t(35)\n34.\tThe Young And The Skateless 1307.9\t1265\t42.9\t(33)\n35.\tSam & His Dogs 1297.6\t1286\t11.6\t(34)\n36.\tArtic Storm 1293.3\t1254\t39.3\t(37)\n37.\tYoungbucs 1293.0\t1238\t101.7\t(36)\n38.\tSoft Swedes 1284.9\t1238\t46.9\t(38)\n39.\tSimmonac 1280.8\t1260\t20.8\t(46)\n40.\tMilton Keynes Kings 1271.8\t1269\t2.8\t(40)\n41.\tJeff Horvath 1266.6\t1261\t5.6\t(39)\n42.\tLegion of Hoth 1265.8\t1250\t15.8\t(45)\n43.\tLe Fleur de Lys 1264.3\t1239\t25.3\t(43)\n44.\tYan The Man Loke 1263.7\t1263\t0.7\t(44)\n45.\tKuehn Crushers 1258.1\t1213\t45.1\t(41)\n46.\tHamster from Hoboken 1254.7\t1246\t8.7\t(41)\n47.\tStreaks 1249.8\t1195\t54.8\t(49)\n48.\tBrian Bergman 1249.3\t1226\t23.3\t(50)\n49.\tThe Finnish Force 1248.5\t1226\t22.5\t(47)\n50.\tGrant Marven 1239.9\t1237\t2.9\t(53)\n51.\tice legion 1239.8\t1211\t28.8\t(48)\n52.\tGoaldingers 1237.0\t1215\t22.0\t(51)\n53.\tT C OverAchievers 1231.9\t1229\t2.9\t(52)\n54.\tRandy Coulman 1226.2\t1221\t5.2\t(62)\n55.\tBozrah Bruins 1225.2\t1180\t45.2\t(54)\n56.\tSkriko Wolves 1223.4\t1218\t5.4\t(57)\n57.\tbuffalo soldiers 1223.0\t1168\t62.1\t(59)\n58.\tHoudini's Magicians 1221.3\t1203\t18.3\t(56)\n59.\tSteven And Mark Dream Team 1219.1\t1216\t3.1\t(64)\n60.\tReal Bad Toe Jam 1216.9\t1168\t48.9\t(55)\n61.\trec.sport.hockey choices 1216.3\t1215\t1.3\t(58)\n62.\tbemybaby 1216.2\t1162\t54.2\t(60)\n63.\tLAMP LIGHTERS 1213.9\t1208\t5.9\t(63)\n64.\tLIPPE 1212.9\t1199\t13.9\t(61)\n65.\tPhil and Kev's Karma Dudes 1205.8\t1205\t0.8\t(69)\n66.\tDoug Bowles 1203.0\t1183\t20.0\t(72)\n67.\tBloom County All Stars 1202.3\t1198\t4.3\t(67)\n68.\tTom 1202.1\t1189\t13.1\t(66)\n69.\tIndianapolis Bennies 1197.8\t1177\t20.8\t(65)\n70.\tBruins 1196.1\t1196\t0.1\t(68)\n71.\tsmithw 1195.0\t1174\t21.0\t(70)\n72.\tAIK Exiles 1188.5\t1154\t34.5\t(77)\n73.\tIowa Hockeyes 1188.3\t1172\t16.3\t(71)\n74.\tFrank Worthless 1186.3\t1180\t6.3\t(76)\n75.\tThe Great Pumpkin 1183.4\t1129\t54.4\t(73)\n76.\tNON! 1182.4\t1166\t16.4\t(74)\n77.\tshooting seamen 1180.1\t1180\t0.1\t(75)\n78.\tInvisible Inc 1178.1\t1177\t1.1\t(78)\n79.\tBrad Gibson 1174.2\t1147\t27.2\t(79)\n80.\tCougarmania 1170.8\t1146\t24.8\t(80)\n81.\tJohn Zupancic 1170.1\t1143\t27.1\t(84)\n82.\tDavid Wong 1166.0\t1111\t66.1\t(83)\n83.\tgarryola 1165.7\t1156\t9.7\t(85)\n84.\tGary Bergman Fan Club 1163.1\t1158\t5.1\t(86)\n\tStaffan Axelsson 1163.1\t1148\t15.1\t(87)\n86.\tKortelaisen Kovat 1158.0\t1103\t164.1\t(81)\n87.\tChocolate Rockets 1154.5\t1152\t2.5\t(90)\n88.\tPLP Fools 1153.1\t1153\t0.1\t(82)\n89.\tThe Kamucks 1152.0\t1097\t76.1\t(97)\n90.\tChubby Checkers 1150.3\t1134\t16.3\t(88)\n\tKODIAKS 1150.3\t1149\t1.3\t(93)\n92.\tDerrill's Dastardly Dozen 1150.1\t1128\t22.1\t(89)\n93.\tKen DeCruyenaere 1147.0\t1142\t5.0\t(91)\n94.\tFisher Dirtbags 1146.7\t1146\t0.7\t(92)\n95.\tNeil Younger 1145.2\t1131\t14.2\t(106)\n96.\tBSC Oranienburg 1144.1\t1137\t7.1\t(96)\n97.\tNo Namers 1138.0\t1083\t58.2\t(94)\n98.\tArsenal Maple Leafs 1137.8\t1134\t3.8\t(98)\n99.\tThe Campi Machine 1137.0\t1082\t65.3\t(95)\n100.\tMombasa Mosquitos 1131.1\t1125\t6.1\t(100)\n101.\tBjoern Leaguen 1130.0\t1127\t3.0\t(103)\n102.\tEllis Islanders 1123.6\t1116\t7.6\t(99)\n103.\tZachmans Wingers 1122.8\t1073\t49.8\t(101)\n104.\tKing Suke 1120.1\t1120\t0.1\t(108)\n105.\tLarry 1116.8\t1105\t11.8\t(109)\n106.\tVoteNoOct26 1115.8\t1084\t31.8\t(111)\n107.\tBloodgamers 1115.1\t1073\t42.1\t(112)\n\tHet Schot Is Hard 1115.1\t1097\t18.1\t(110)\n109.\tHurricane Andrew 1114.6\t1107\t7.6\t(107)\n110.\tDirty White Socks 1114.4\t1071\t43.4\t(104)\n111.\tWormtown Woosbags 1114.0\t1059\t72.6\t(105)\n112.\tBruce's Rented Mules 1111.9\t1100\t11.9\t(112)\n113.\tOklahoma Stormchasers 1111.3\t1083\t28.3\t(116)\n114.\tTeem Kanada 1111.0\t1095\t16.0\t(114)\n115.\tEdelweiss 1110.9\t1108\t2.9\t(102)\n116.\tFrank's Follies 1110.2\t1086\t24.2\t(115)\n117.\tPond Slime 1109.7\t1109\t0.7\t(118)\n118.\tSPUDS 1108.6\t1096\t12.6\t(117)\n119.\tPSV Dartmouth 1097.1\t1090\t7.1\t(119)\n120.\tKokudo Keikaku Bunnies 1096.3\t1056\t40.3\t(124)\n121.\tBlue Talon 1095.3\t1082\t13.3\t(121)\n122.\tStanford Ice Hawks 1094.2\t1066\t28.2\t(122)\n123.\tTimo Ojala 1088.3\t1088\t0.3\t(125)\n124.\tMark Sanders 1088.1\t1077\t11.1\t(120)\n125.\tAye Carumba!!! 1087.9\t1084\t3.9\t(123)\n126.\tDirty Rotten Puckers 1087.2\t1086\t1.2\t(128)\n127.\tgarys team 1087.1\t1070\t17.1\t(133)\n128.\tCluster Buster 1084.6\t1077\t7.6\t(127)\n129.\tHaral 1083.3\t1076\t7.3\t(126)\n130.\tApricot Fuzzfaces 1081.3\t1058\t23.3\t(129)\n131.\tGary Bill Pens Dynasty 1078.6\t1059\t19.6\t(132)\n132.\tSeattle PFTB 1077.9\t1055\t22.9\t(135)\n133.\tNesbitt 1077.1\t1076\t1.1\t(131)\n134.\tThe Lost Poots 1076.7\t1070\t6.7\t(130)\n135.\tLe Groupe MI 1076.2\t1046\t30.2\t(137)\n136.\tArctic Circles 1075.6\t1038\t37.6\t(134)\n137.\tLate Night with David Letterman 1074.0\t1074\t0.0\t(136)\n138.\tWembley LostWeekenders 1071.3\t1071\t0.3\t(145)\n139.\tWild Hearted Sons 1068.9\t1064\t4.9\t(143)\n140.\tDree Hobbs 1066.4\t1053\t13.4\t(149)\n141.\tCloset Boy's Boys 1066.0\t1018\t48.0\t(142)\n142.\tScott Glenn 1065.2\t1055\t10.2\t(139)\n143.\tGO BRUINS 1064.2\t1058\t6.2\t(138)\n144.\tAndy Y F WONG 1063.5\t1042\t21.5\t(145)\n\tBook 'em Danno's Bushbabies 1063.5\t1053\t10.5\t(148)\n146.\tMcKees Rocks Rockers 1062.1\t1057\t5.1\t(147)\n147.\tboutch 92-93 1062.0\t1042\t20.0\t(144)\n148.\tteam gold 1060.7\t1044\t16.7\t(141)\n149.\tGoddess Of Fermentation 1056.2\t1026\t30.2\t(151)\n150.\tconvex stars 1055.6\t1050\t5.6\t(153)\n151.\tFlying Kiwis 1055.1\t1046\t9.1\t(140)\n152.\tEinstein's Rock Band 1054.0\t1054\t0.0\t(154)\n153.\tDr Joel Fleishman 1053.7\t1050\t3.7\t(165)\n154.\tTim Rogers 1053.1\t1045\t8.1\t(152)\n155.\tMY TEAM 1053.0\t998\t174.8\t(159)\n156.\tTap 1052.5\t1052\t0.5\t(156)\n157.\tSundogs 1052.4\t1052\t0.4\t(166)\n158.\tButtered Waffles 1052.0\t1006\t46.0\t(157)\n159.\tGO HABS GO 1051.0\t1043\t8.0\t(150)\n160.\tPrinceton Canucks 1050.0\t995\t124.2\t(155)\n161.\tHubert's Hockey Homeboys 1049.6\t1049\t0.6\t(157)\n162.\tSatan's Choice 1047.5\t1033\t14.5\t(164)\n163.\tBob's Blues 1046.8\t1000\t46.8\t(160)\n164.\tLes Nordiques 1045.0\t990\t60.4\t(162)\n165.\tPierre Mailhot 1044.6\t1042\t2.6\t(167)\n166.\tfurleys furies 1041.6\t1038\t3.6\t(161)\n167.\tSlap Shot Marco 1039.8\t988\t51.8\t(168)\n168.\tHUNTERS & COLLECTORS 1038.4\t996\t42.4\t(162)\n169.\tThe Dreamers 1038.0\t983\t63.7\t(173)\n170.\tSan Jose Mahi Mahi 1036.8\t1005\t31.8\t(169)\n171.\tJeff Nimeroff 1034.8\t986\t48.8\t(171)\n172.\tEast City Jokers 1034.0\t979\t69.1\t(174)\n173.\tThe Leafs Rule!!!! 1033.8\t1008\t25.8\t(170)\n174.\tDarse Billings 1033.7\t999\t34.7\t(178)\n175.\tFlowers 1033.0\t978\t113.6\t(177)\n176.\tDaryl Turner 1030.4\t1028\t2.4\t(175)\n177.\tLANA Inc 1030.3\t1003\t27.3\t(180)\n178.\triding the pine 1028.7\t1008\t20.7\t(176)\n179.\tSpinal Tap 1027.4\t986\t41.4\t(181)\n180.\tStimpy ADG Zeta 1027.0\t1006\t21.0\t(172)\n181.\tChappel's Chumps 1024.0\t1000\t24.0\t(179)\n182.\tBig Bad Bruins 1023.5\t1005\t18.5\t(184)\n183.\tEnforcers 1022.1\t994\t28.1\t(183)\n184.\tMike Mac Cormack Sydney NS CAN 1022.0\t967\t107.2\t(186)\n\tJimParker 1022.0\t967\t179.0\t(182)\n186.\tBulldogs 1020.4\t997\t23.4\t(187)\n187.\tYellow Plague 1019.2\t1005\t14.2\t(195)\n188.\tJeff Bachovchin 1018.7\t972\t46.7\t(184)\n189.\tAbsolut Lehigh 1017.9\t1009\t8.9\t(189)\n190.\tvoyageurs 1015.7\t1013\t2.7\t(188)\n191.\tRepublican Dirty Tricksters 1010.0\t955\t66.0\t(190)\n192.\tNinja Turtles 1009.3\t1008\t1.3\t(196)\n193.\tDr.D And The S.O.D. 1009.1\t992\t17.1\t(192)\n194.\tHenry's Bar B Q 1008.7\t1008\t0.7\t(191)\n195.\tBunch of Misfits 1007.8\t984\t23.8\t(193)\n196.\tRobyns Team 1007.0\t977\t30.0\t(194)\n197.\tCobra's Killers 1006.7\t975\t31.7\t(202)\n198.\tCherry Bombers 1005.2\t1004\t1.2\t(203)\n199.\tKuta Papercuts 1003.5\t985\t18.5\t(200)\n200.\tGreat Expectations 998.3\t996\t2.3\t(201)\n\tAcadien 998.3\t980\t18.3\t(198)\n202.\tDARMAN'S Dragons 994.3\t966\t28.3\t(199)\n203.\tTeam Melville 993.9\t947\t46.9\t(197)\n204.\tKiller Apes 990.3\t966\t24.3\t(205)\n205.\tKaufbeuren Icebreakers 988.6\t951\t37.6\t(206)\n206.\tJayson's Kinky Pucks 987.9\t961\t26.9\t(204)\n207.\tRoger Smith 987.6\t948\t39.6\t(208)\n208.\tFirebirds 980.9\t977\t3.9\t(209)\n209.\tIKEA Wholesale 980.7\t979\t1.7\t(211)\n210.\tUmpire 4 life 980.1\t969\t11.1\t(207)\n211.\tThose 1st few weeks hurt! 980.0\t925\t55.9\t(210)\n212.\tOutlaws 975.0\t920\t164.9\t(212)\n213.\t400 Hurricane 973.1\t941\t32.1\t(223)\n214.\tFrack Attack 972.3\t945\t27.3\t(219)\n215.\tBelieve it or dont 970.1\t949\t21.1\t(215)\n216.\tTodd's Turkeys 967.9\t966\t1.9\t(219)\n217.\tThundering Herd 966.0\t911\t163.6\t(214)\n218.\tKnee Injuries 965.4\t955\t10.4\t(217)\n219.\tThe 200 Club 962.8\t956\t6.8\t(213)\n220.\tfred mckim 962.0\t907\t93.0\t(222)\n221.\tCrazy Euros 961.9\t944\t17.9\t(218)\n222.\tCreeping Death 959.3\t938\t21.3\t(216)\n223.\tRyan's Renegades 956.9\t906\t50.9\t(221)\n224.\tpig vomit 953.3\t952\t1.3\t(224)\n225.\tIce Strykers 952.0\t897\t105.4\t(225)\n\tdayton bomber 952.0\t952\t0.0\t(228)\n227.\tCDN Stuck in Alabama 951.3\t941\t10.3\t(227)\n228.\tFighting Geordies 950.0\t895\t141.6\t(226)\n229.\tCafall and Crew 947.3\t909\t38.3\t(229)\n230.\tShip's Way 942.7\t934\t8.7\t(235)\n231.\tZipper Heads 941.9\t908\t33.9\t(232)\n232.\tChris of Death 941.0\t886\t83.6\t(230)\n233.\tBanko's Beer Rangers 940.2\t936\t4.2\t(232)\n234.\tSwillbellies 939.7\t921\t18.7\t(231)\n235.\tOz 934.0\t899\t35.0\t(237)\n236.\tLaubsters II 931.0\t876\t201.6\t(236)\n237.\tNinja Bunnies 928.9\t884\t44.9\t(239)\n238.\tGreat Scott 928.0\t873\t73.3\t(240)\n239.\tJoliet Inmates 927.8\t882\t45.8\t(238)\n240.\tNY Flames 923.8\t916\t7.8\t(234)\n241.\tSANDY'S SABRES 917.7\t913\t4.7\t(243)\n242.\tWidefield White Wolves 910.9\t874\t36.9\t(241)\n243.\tFlorida Tech Burgh Team 909.3\t860\t49.3\t(246)\n244.\tThe Ice Holes 908.7\t906\t2.7\t(242)\n245.\tSouth Carolina Tiger Paws 903.0\t848\t78.4\t(245)\n\tDaves Team 903.0\t871\t32.0\t(244)\n247.\tMudville Kings 900.6\t873\t27.6\t(250)\n248.\tRedliners 898.9\t883\t15.9\t(252)\n249.\troadrunners 898.5\t880\t18.5\t(249)\n250.\tFor xtc 898.2\t890\t8.2\t(248)\n251.\tLeos Blue Chips 894.4\t884\t10.4\t(247)\n252.\tNew Jersey Rob 891.7\t891\t0.7\t(251)\n253.\tPat Phillips 891.1\t881\t10.1\t(253)\n254.\tStewart Clamen 869.6\t868\t1.6\t(254)\n255.\tDemon Spawn 868.0\t843\t25.0\t(255)\n256.\tSunnyvale Storm 815.2\t815\t0.2\t(256)\n257.\tAllez les Blues 803.0\t748\t476.9\t(257)\n258.\tUp For Sale Hockey Club 785.0\t762\t23.0\t(258)\n259.\tPetes Picks 783.0\t728\t168.5\t(259)\n260.\tRINACO 780.0\t725\t114.0\t(260)\n261.\tBrenz Revenge 705.0\t701\t4.0\t(261)\n262.\tDinamo Riga 658.0\t603\t571.6\t(262)\n-- \nAndrew Scott | andrew@idacom.hp.com\nHP IDACOM Telecom Operation | (403) 462-0666 ext. 253", "\n\n\n\n\nRoger, you should check your facts before posting! The Kings have \nconceded 12 goals in 2 games. ", "\n\n\n\nI don't understand this at all. Matt Williams has demonstrated\nthroughout his career that he will NOT wait for good pitches to hit.\nHe won't take walks. He'd rather swing. If I'm the opposing pitcher,\nwhy would I groove a fastball to Williams and have him hit it well,\nwhen I know that Williams will swing (and miss, or at least not hit\nvery well) at a low and away curve?", "\nCurrently, he's all over. He played 2nd when Deshields was out. He was\nshifted to third when Delino came back. And today, he played SS for a cold\nWil Cordero. \n\nHis natural positions seem to be in the middle infield, but they will seemingly\nfind a spot for himm somewhere as long as his bat is hot.", "\nBut I gotta tell ya,\n\nIf the Hawks can't beat the Blues in a game that\nIS significant I can't wait to see how the Blues\nmight do against Toronto ;)\n\nBTW, if you think that the Hawks deserved to win that game\nI think you were not watching the same one everyone else\nwas.\n\nROAR'IN LEAF FAN", "\nHere in Nanaimo (on Vancouver Island, for you furriners out there) we\ngot the ABC coverage on KOMO. It probably depends on your cable company.\n\nI started off switching between the CBC and ABC broadcasts, but finally\nsettled on ABC. I can't stand Don Whitman, and Al Michaels was doing a\ndecent job. He followed the play pretty well, knew all the players'\nnames, and only made a couple of \"rookie\" mistakes that I noticed.\nOne thing that surprised me is that they never once attempted to explain\nthe offside rule.\n\nAm-I-paranoid-or-is-this-really-happening department:\nThere were no fights in the game, but there were a couple of occasions\nwhere it looked like a fight was about to start. Both times ABC cut\naway to show a closeup of a coach or McNall or something. Has ABC\ndecided to adopt the \"Spicer policy?\"\n", "\n\n\nNot if you've scored four runs, you don't! Why strain even the best pitching\nstaff? Why not make it easier for them? \n\nIn the 2-1 game, the best pitching staff in the world can't compensate\nfor a blown call, a bad hop, a gust of wind. Winning close is the \nwrong way to win; both keeping opposing runs down AND scoring a lot \nyourself are insurance against the \"Shit happens\" aspect of baseball.\n\nNot every great teamhas even *good* pitching. The Big Red Machine of\nthe 70's was league-average in pitching. But somehow, Rose-Morgan-Bench-\nPerez-etc. managed to win 100 games more than once, peaking at 108.", "[Deletions]\n\nGeez, Dal must have slipped something into Ted's drink sometime. Comparing\nPrince to Pagnozzi offensively is laughable. Prince has never hit well in\nthe minors and he's now 27 years old, I think. Pagnozzi was not a bad hitter\nin the minors. (I'll bring in the numbers tomorrow assuming I don't have\nanother brain cramp and forget.) He had a very good year at Louisville \nbefore coming up to the majors. As I recall, the hype on Pagnozzi coming up\nin the organization was good hit, decent fielding. When he got to the \nmajors and didn't hit as well as expected (not as much playing time?), he \nbecame Exhibit 312 in Nichols' Law of Catcher Defense and got the reputation \nas an outstanding defensive catcher. It's not clear he ever learned to\nhit. His four years with more than 100 AB--\n\nBorn 31 July 1962\nYear AB BA SLG OBA \n1988 195 .282 .320 .328\n1990 220 .277 .373 .321\n1991 459 .264 .351 .317\n1992 485 .249 .359 .290 \n\nNo power, less-than-league-average walks, peak year when he turned 28, \nnow declining. If Ted is going to invoke Pagnozzi as a model for Prince,\ngiven that Prince has underperformed Pagnozzi in the minors, it's not\na rosy picture.\n\nBTW, I'm still unhappy with moving Zeile, who had the same reputation \ncoming up in the Cardinal organization as Pagnozzi, except that he was\na much, much better hitter, to 3rd where he could be an average hitter\nand a below average fielder instead of a well-above average hitter\nas an average (or below average) fielding catcher.\n\nHarold", "Here is the price list for the week April 13 to April 19.\n\n\t- Andrew\n\nBuy\tSell\tPts\tTeam\tPlayer\n158.9\t143.0\t157\tPIT\tMario_Lemieux\n148.5\t133.7\t145\tBUF\tPat_LaFontaine\n142.7\t128.4\t141\tBOS\tAdam_Oates\n137.6\t123.8\t136\tDET\tSteve_Yzerman\n132.1\t118.9\t129\tWPG\tTeemu_Selanne\n131.7\t118.5\t127\tNYI\tPierre_Turgeon\n130.1\t117.1\t127\tTOR\tDoug_Gilmour\n126.0\t113.4\t123\tBUF\tAlexander_Mogilny\n123.4\t111.1\t119\tPHI\tMark_Recchi\n121.9\t109.7\t119\tLA\tLuc_Robitaille\n113.3\t102.0\t112\tQUE\tMats_Sundin\n111.3\t100.2\t110\tPIT\tKevin_Stevens\n110.6\t99.5\t108\tVAN\tPavel_Bure\n108.6\t97.7\t106\tSTL\tCraig_Janney\n108.3\t97.5\t107\tPIT\tRick_Tocchet\n107.6\t96.8\t105\tCHI\tJeremy_Roenick\n105.3\t94.8\t104\tQUE\tJoe_Sakic\n103.5\t93.2\t101\tSTL\tBrett_Hull\n102.4\t92.2\t100\tCGY\tTheoren_Fleury\n101.2\t91.1\t100\tPIT\tRon_Francis\n100.4\t90.4\t98\tTOR\tDave_Andreychuk\n100.2\t90.2\t99\tBOS\tJoe_Juneau\n98.3\t88.5\t96\tWPG\tPhil_Housley\n98.3\t88.5\t96\tMTL\tVincent_Damphousse\n96.3\t86.7\t94\tMTL\tKirk_Muller\n96.1\t86.5\t95\tDET\tDino_Ciccarelli\n95.3\t85.8\t93\tBUF\tDale_Hawerchuk\n95.3\t85.8\t93\tMIN\tMike_Modano\n94.4\t85.0\t91\tNYR\tMark_Messier\n93.2\t83.9\t91\tSTL\tBrendan_Shanahan\n93.1\t83.8\t92\tPIT\tJaromir_Jagr\n88.1\t79.3\t86\tMTL\tBrian_Bellows\n88.1\t79.3\t86\tLA\tJari_Kurri\n88.0\t79.2\t87\tDET\tSergei_Fedorov\n87.1\t78.4\t85\tCGY\tRobert_Reichel\n87.0\t78.3\t86\tDET\tPaul_Coffey\n86.1\t77.5\t83\tWSH\tPeter_Bondra\n86.1\t77.5\t83\tHFD\tGeoff_Sanderson\n86.0\t77.4\t84\tTB\tBrian_Bradley\n85.0\t76.5\t82\tNYI\tSteve_Thomas\n84.0\t75.6\t83\tPIT\tLarry_Murphy\n84.0\t75.6\t81\tPHI\tRod_Brind'Amour\n83.0\t74.7\t82\tBOS\tRay_Bourque\n83.0\t74.7\t82\tQUE\tSteve_Duchesne\n83.0\t74.7\t80\tHFD\tAndrew_Cassels\n82.0\t73.8\t80\tLA\tTony_Granato\n81.9\t73.7\t79\tWSH\tDale_Hunter\n81.9\t73.7\t79\tWSH\tMike_Ridley\n80.9\t72.8\t78\tHFD\tPat_Verbeek\n80.9\t72.8\t79\tMTL\tStephan_Lebeau\n80.9\t72.8\t79\tCGY\tGary_Suter\n78.9\t71.0\t77\tVAN\tCliff_Ronning\n78.9\t71.0\t77\tNJ\tClaude_Lemieux\n78.9\t71.0\t78\tQUE\tMike_Ricci\n77.9\t70.1\t76\tVAN\tMurray_Craven\n77.9\t70.1\t76\tSTL\tJeff_Brown\n77.8\t70.0\t75\tWSH\tKevin_Hatcher\n77.8\t70.0\t75\tNYR\tTony_Amonte\n76.9\t69.2\t76\tSJ\tKelly_Kisio\n76.8\t69.1\t75\tNJ\tAlexander_Semak\n76.8\t69.1\t75\tMIN\tRuss_Courtnall\n75.8\t68.2\t74\tMIN\tDave_Gagner\n75.8\t68.2\t74\tTOR\tNikolai_Borschevsky\n75.7\t68.1\t73\tPHI\tEric_Lindros\n74.8\t67.3\t73\tLA\tJimmy_Carson\n73.8\t66.4\t72\tCGY\tJoe_Nieuwendyk\n73.8\t66.4\t72\tVAN\tGeoff_Courtnall\n73.8\t66.4\t72\tMIN\tUlf_Dahlen\n73.6\t66.2\t71\tNYI\tDerek_King\n73.6\t66.2\t71\tWSH\tMichal_Pivonka\n72.9\t65.6\t72\tQUE\tOwen_Nolan\n72.9\t65.6\t72\tBOS\tDmitri_Kvartalnov\n72.7\t65.4\t71\tSTL\tNelson_Emerson\n72.7\t65.4\t71\tCHI\tChris_Chelios\n72.6\t65.3\t70\tNYI\tBenoit_Hogue\n71.7\t64.5\t70\tNJ\tStephane_Richer\n71.7\t64.5\t70\tWPG\tThomas_Steen\n71.7\t64.5\t70\tWPG\tAlexei_Zhamnov\n71.7\t64.5\t70\tCHI\tSteve_Larmer\n69.8\t62.8\t69\tPIT\tJoe_Mullen\n69.5\t62.6\t67\tNYR\tMike_Gartner\n68.6\t61.7\t67\tVAN\tPetr_Nedved\n68.6\t61.7\t67\tVAN\tTrevor_Linden\n68.6\t61.7\t67\tLA\tMike_Donnelly\n68.4\t61.6\t66\tWSH\tDmitri_Khristich\n68.4\t61.6\t66\tWSH\tAl_Iafrate\n66.8\t60.1\t66\tDET\tRay_Sheppard\n66.8\t60.1\t66\tQUE\tAndrei_Kovalenko\n66.4\t59.8\t64\tHFD\tZarley_Zalapski\n66.4\t59.8\t64\tNYR\tAdam_Graves\n65.8\t59.2\t65\tSJ\tJohan_Garpenlov\n64.5\t58.1\t63\tTOR\tGlenn_Anderson\n63.5\t57.2\t62\tLA\tWayne_Gretzky\n63.5\t57.2\t62\tOTT\tNorm_Maciver\n62.2\t56.0\t60\tPHI\tGarry_Galley\n61.7\t55.5\t61\tDET\tSteve_Chiasson\n61.7\t55.5\t61\tDET\tPaul_Ysebaert\n61.5\t55.4\t60\tNJ\tValeri_Zelepukin\n61.5\t55.4\t60\tMTL\tMike_Keane\n61.2\t55.1\t59\tPHI\tBrent_Fedyk\n60.7\t54.6\t60\tPIT\tShawn_McEachern\n60.4\t54.4\t59\tLA\tRob_Blake\n60.1\t54.1\t58\tNYI\tPat_Flatley\n59.7\t53.7\t59\tQUE\tScott_Young\n59.4\t53.5\t58\tWPG\tDarrin_Shannon\n59.1\t53.2\t57\tPHI\tKevin_Dineen\n58.4\t52.6\t57\tNJ\tBernie_Nicholls\n58.4\t52.6\t57\tCGY\tSergei_Makarov\n58.4\t52.6\t57\tCHI\tSteve_Smith\n58.1\t52.3\t56\tWSH\tPat_Elynuik\n57.4\t51.7\t56\tVAN\tGreg_Adams\n57.4\t51.7\t56\tNJ\tScott_Stevens\n57.4\t51.7\t56\tTB\tJohn_Tucker\n56.3\t50.7\t55\tWPG\tFredrik_Olausson\n56.0\t50.4\t54\tNYR\tSergei_Nemchinov\n55.0\t49.5\t53\tNYR\tDarren_Turcotte\n55.0\t48.9\t53\tCGY\tAl_MacInnis\n55.0\t48.9\t53\tCHI\tChristian_Ruuttu\n55.0\t48.0\t52\tCHI\tBrent_Sutter\n55.0\t47.6\t51\tHFD\tTerry_Yake\n55.0\t47.0\t51\tVAN\tDixon_Ward\n55.0\t47.0\t51\tWPG\tKeith_Tkachuk\n55.0\t46.4\t51\tBOS\tStephen_Leach\n55.0\t46.1\t50\tTOR\tJohn_Cullen\n55.0\t46.1\t50\tMTL\tDenis_Savard\n55.0\t45.7\t49\tNYR\tEd_Olczyk\n55.0\t45.2\t49\tVAN\tAnatoli_Semenov\n55.0\t44.8\t48\tWSH\tSylvain_Cote\n55.0\t44.8\t48\tNYI\tVladimir_Malakhov\n55.0\t44.8\t48\tNYI\tJeff_Norton\n55.0\t44.8\t48\tHFD\tPatrick_Poulin\n55.0\t44.6\t49\tBOS\tDave_Poulin\n55.0\t44.3\t48\tLA\tTomas_Sandstrom\n55.0\t44.3\t48\tEDM\tPetr_Klima\n55.0\t44.3\t48\tNJ\tJohn_MacLean\n55.0\t44.3\t48\tEDM\tDoug_Weight\n55.0\t43.3\t47\tMTL\tGilbert_Dionne\n55.0\t43.3\t47\tLA\tAlexei_Zhitnik\n55.0\t43.3\t47\tEDM\tShayne_Corson\n55.0\t42.8\t47\tQUE\tMartin_Rucinsky\n55.0\t42.4\t46\tWPG\tEvgeny_Davydov\n55.0\t42.4\t46\tSTL\tKevin_Miller\n55.0\t42.4\t46\tEDM\tCraig_Simpson\n55.0\t42.0\t45\tWSH\tKelly_Miller\n55.0\t42.0\t45\tPHI\tPelle_Eklund\n55.0\t40.6\t44\tCHI\tMichel_Goulet\n55.0\t40.6\t44\tEDM\tDave_Manson\n55.0\t39.6\t43\tOTT\tSylvain_Turgeon\n55.0\t38.7\t42\tCGY\tPaul_Ranheim\n55.0\t38.7\t42\tMTL\tMathieu_Schneider\n55.0\t38.7\t42\tMIN\tMark_Tinordi\n55.0\t38.3\t42\tDET\tBob_Probert\n55.0\t37.8\t41\tEDM\tTodd_Elik\n55.0\t37.4\t40\tNYR\tEsa_Tikkanen\n55.0\t37.4\t41\tBOS\tVladimir_Ruzicka\n55.0\t36.9\t40\tOTT\tBob_Kudelski\n55.0\t36.9\t40\tNJ\tPeter_Stastny\n55.0\t36.9\t40\tTOR\tDave_Ellett\n55.0\t36.9\t40\tOTT\tBrad_Shaw\n55.0\t36.5\t40\tDET\tNiklas_Lidstrom\n55.0\t36.0\t39\tNJ\tBobby_Holik\n55.0\t36.0\t39\tTOR\tWendel_Clark\n55.0\t35.5\t38\tNYR\tAlexei_Kovalev\n55.0\t35.0\t38\tBUF\tYuri_Khmylev\n55.0\t35.0\t38\tMIN\tMike_McPhee\n55.0\t34.1\t37\tTOR\tRob_Pearson\n55.0\t34.1\t37\tVAN\tSergio_Momesso\n55.0\t33.6\t36\tNYR\tBrian_Leetch\n55.0\t33.2\t36\tCHI\tDirk_Graham\n55.0\t33.2\t36\tTB\tAdam_Creighton\n55.0\t32.8\t36\tQUE\tValery_Kamensky\n55.0\t32.3\t35\tEDM\tZdeno_Ciger\n55.0\t32.3\t35\tLA\tCorey_Millen\n55.0\t31.9\t35\tBOS\tTed_Donato\n55.0\t31.3\t34\tTOR\tPeter_Zezel\n55.0\t30.4\t33\tMIN\tNeal_Broten\n55.0\t29.5\t32\tMTL\tGary_Leeman\n55.0\t29.5\t32\tEDM\tScott_Mellanby\n55.0\t29.5\t32\tBUF\tWayne_Presley\n55.0\t29.2\t32\tDET\tKeith_Primeau\n55.0\t28.9\t31\tNYI\tBrian_Mullen\n55.0\t28.9\t31\tPHI\tJosef_Beranek\n55.0\t28.6\t31\tCHI\tStephane_Matteau\n55.0\t28.3\t31\tBOS\tSteve_Heinze\n55.0\t28.0\t30\tPHI\tDmitri_Yushkevich\n55.0\t28.0\t30\tHFD\tMikael_Nylander\n55.0\t27.6\t30\tBUF\tRichard_Smehlik\n55.0\t27.6\t30\tTOR\tDmitri_Mironov\n55.0\t25.8\t28\tCHI\tBrian_Noonan\n55.0\t25.5\t28\tSJ\tPat_Falloon\n55.0\t24.9\t27\tSTL\tIgor_Korolev\n55.0\t24.3\t26\tWSH\tBob_Carpenter\n55.0\t24.3\t26\tNYR\tJames_Patrick\n55.0\t23.9\t26\tBUF\tPetr_Svoboda\n55.0\t23.0\t25\tOTT\tMark_Lamb\n55.0\t22.4\t24\tNYI\tScott_LaChance\n55.0\t22.1\t24\tMTL\tBenoit_Brunet\n55.0\t22.1\t24\tTB\tMikael_Andersson\n55.0\t21.2\t23\tEDM\tMartin_Gelinas\n55.0\t21.2\t23\tWPG\tSergei_Bautin\n55.0\t21.2\t23\tTOR\tBill_Berg\n55.0\t21.2\t23\tEDM\tKevin_Todd\n55.0\t19.6\t21\tNYI\tDavid_Volek\n55.0\t19.6\t21\tNYI\tRay_Ferraro\n55.0\t19.4\t21\tMIN\tBrent_Gilchrist\n55.0\t18.6\t20\tHFD\tYvon_Corriveau\n55.0\t18.6\t20\tNYR\tPhil_Bourque\n55.0\t18.6\t20\tNYI\tDarius_Kasparaitis\n55.0\t18.2\t20\tDET\tJim_Hiller\n55.0\t17.7\t19\tPHI\tAndrei_Lomakin\n55.0\t17.6\t19\tBUF\tDonald_Audette\n55.0\t16.6\t18\tTB\tRoman_Hamrlik\n55.0\t15.5\t17\tBOS\tCam_Neely\n55.0\t15.5\t17\tSJ\tMark_Pederson\n55.0\t14.6\t16\tPIT\tMartin_Straka\n55.0\t13.9\t15\tCHI\tJoe_Murphy\n55.0\t12.2\t13\tNYR\tPeter_Andersson\n55.0\t12.0\t13\tOTT\tTomas_Jelinek\n55.0\t12.0\t13\tNJ\tJanne_Ojanen\n55.0\t10.2\t11\tTB\tSteve_Kasper\n55.0\t10.2\t11\tMIN\tBobby_Smith\n55.0\t9.1\t10\tSJ\tRay_Whitney\n55.0\t8.4\t9\tHFD\tRobert_Petrovicky\n55.0\t8.3\t9\tBUF\tViktor_Gordijuk\n55.0\t7.4\t8\tTOR\tJoe_Sacco\n55.0\t7.3\t8\tQUE\tMikhail_Tatarinov\n55.0\t7.3\t8\tSJ\tPeter_Ahola\n55.0\t6.5\t7\tCHI\tRob_Brown\n55.0\t6.4\t7\tBOS\tGlen_Murray\n55.0\t5.6\t6\tHFD\tTim_Kerr\n55.0\t5.5\t6\tMIN\tBrian_Propp\n55.0\t4.7\t5\tWSH\tReggie_Savage\n55.0\t4.6\t5\tSTL\tVitali_Prokhorov\n55.0\t4.6\t5\tLA\tRobert_Lang\n55.0\t4.6\t5\tEDM\tShaun_Van_Allen\n55.0\t3.7\t4\tMIN\tDan_Quinn\n55.0\t3.6\t4\tDET\tViacheslav_Kozlov\n55.0\t3.6\t4\tBOS\tJozef_Stumpel\n55.0\t3.6\t4\tPIT\tBryan_Fogarty\n55.0\t2.8\t3\tMTL\tOlav_Petrov\n55.0\t2.8\t3\tTB\tStan_Drulia\n55.0\t1.9\t2\tWSH\tJason_Woolley\n55.0\t1.8\t2\tNJ\tClaude_Vilgrain\n55.0\t0.0\t0\tMTL\tPatrick_Kjellberg\n55.0\t0.0\t0\tOTT\tAlexei_Yashin\n55.0\t0.0\t0\tWSH\tRandy_Burridge\n55.0\t0.0\t0\tEDM\tDean_McAmmond\n55.0\t0.0\t0\tCGY\tCory_Stillman\n55.0\t0.0\t0\tTB\tBrent_Gretzky\n55.0\t0.0\t0\tBUF\tJason_Dawe\n55.0\t0.0\t0\tWSH\tBrian_Sakic\n55.0\t0.0\t0\tVAN\tIgor_Larionov\n55.0\t0.0\t0\tCHI\tSergei_Krivokrasov\n55.0\t0.0\t0\tQUE\tPeter_Forsberg\n-- \nAndrew Scott | andrew@idacom.hp.com\nHP IDACOM Telecom Operation | (403) 462-0666 ext. 253", "One \"t\" in \"Eddie Mathews\"!\nBecause a small advantage in fielding ability comes nowhere near\nmaking up for the large difference in hitting. Their average\nseasons, using their combined average 656 (AB + BB) per 162 games:\n\n Years AB H R 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB AVG OBP SLG OPS\nSanto 14.10 577 160 81 26 5 24 94 268 79 .277 .366 .464 .830\nRobinson 17.55 607 162 70 27 4 15 77 243 49 .267 .325 .401 .726\n\nFielding, we have, per 162 games at third,\n\n Years P A DP E PCT\nSanto 13.15 149 348 30 24 .954\nRobinson 17.72 152 350 35 15 .971\n\nEven if Robinson's extra 3 putouts, 2 assists, and 5 DPs are taken to mean\nhe was responsible for 10 more outs in the field, that doesn't make up\nfor the extra 28 outs he made at the plate, not to mention the fewer\ntotal bases. The difference of .104 in OPS should be decreased by about\n.025 to account for Wrigley, but a .079 difference is still considerable.\nThe Thorn & Palmer ratings are\n\n Adjusted Adjusted Stolen Fielding Total\n Production Batting Runs Base Runs Runs Rating\nSanto 123 284 -14 137 41.7\nRobinson 105 52 -5 151 19.8 (26.3)\nUsual disclaimers about T&P's FR apply, but they really shouldn't be\nway off the mark in this comparison. At least it's better than fielding\npercentage: Carney Lansford has a .966 , 10th best all-time, but -225 FR,\ndead last of all time. Also, since this total rating compares players\nto league average instead of replacement level, Robinson should be\nawarded an extra 6.5 or so for playing 653 more games. He had a great\ncareer, but I would prefer Santo's plus 4 years of a replacement level 3Bman.\n\nBut I would knock Traynor off the list and replace him by Stan Hack.\nThat's a similar story, Hack's far better hitting outweighs Traynor's\nsuperior fielding. Graig Nettles and Buddy Bell would also be better\nchoices (IMHO of course, though some recent net discussion supports\nthis point of view.)\n\nShouldn't that be right field?\n", "This just in...\n\nNolan Ryan hurt his right knee in the 4th inning of the Rangers-Orioles\ngame last night. He'll be having arthoscopic surgery that will, at best,\nkeep him on the DL for two to five weeks.\n\nJust when I had almost convinced myself that the Rangers' rotation would\nstay healthy this year...\n", "And then cosper@seq.uncwil.edu (Kit Cosper) quoth:\n=>A comment made by one of the Braves announcers, attributed to\n=>an anonymous player after Friday night's game,\n=>\n=>\t\"I'm sorry we didn't tie it up, I wanted to see some more\n=>\t umpiring.\"\n=>\n=>Just about sums it up.............\n\nSure, like Ron Gant wasn't completely out of line.\n\nIf I were Hirschbeck, I would have ejected, in order, Ron Gant, every single\nlast Brave who came onto the field, and possibly Bobby Cox, depending on the\nlanguage he used. Since Cox was the only Brave rung up, I suspect I would\nhave thrown him out too.\n\nYou simply cannot show up an umpire like Ron Gant did. It is disrespectful\nof not only the home plate umpire, but of the dignity of the game.\n", "\n\nPunch Imlach's contributions as a coach and GM were far greater than\nthose of the above combined. Should we name a division or trophy after\nhim? Smythe and Norris and the bunch were honoured purely because they\nwere powerful owners. As owners they certainly did help to build the\nleague but whether they developed the game is another question altogether.\nAre we going to honour those who contributed to the league's evolution\nor are we going to honour those who contributed to the glory of the \nsport itself? \n\n\nI can't disagree with you here.\n\n\n\nWhat have you heard? The Major was the *definitive* little asshole! He\noriginated the phrase \"if you can't beat 'em in the alley you can't beat\n'em on the ice.\" That was his idea of hockey. Do you think, by chance,\nthat Don Cherry is a classy individual?\n\n\nThe money issue is irrelevant to the point that we would agree on, and\nthat is: \"it is the players that are what make the game great and not the\npeople who put them on the ice\"\n\nExactly true. Naming divisions and trophies after Smythe and the bunch\nis the same kind of nepotism that put Stein in the hall of fame. I have\nalways thought that this was nonsense.\n\n\n-- ", "What sadist brought up this vein about Malarchuk? When I saw what\nhappened I wanted to throw up, and at the same time I was devastated,\nsince I thought that Malarchuk wouldn't survive. BTW, I believe he picked\nup an alcohol problem after (before?) the incident.\n\nTo radically change the subject, the Caps must be having nightmares about\nthe Isles in overtime in the playoffs. Have they *ever* beaten the\nIslanders in a playoff OT game? This is lunacy. The Caps are such a\nsorry team in the playoffs, they consistently choke against opponents who\nthey should be beating. Losing two OT games in a row is not coincidence,\nit's evidence of the choke factor.\n", "\nThe problem is that (by no fault of ESPN) ongoing games are not\ncovered 'til the final horn sounds. With two channels, SCNY and SCA,\nlate-finishing games (up to Pacific time) and overtimes elsewhere will\nkick in at the end of local coverage. If SCNY is blocked by the Mets,\nthere is still some hockey on SCA (SCNY Plus).\n\nWith an ESPN 2, the current situation would be alleviated.\n\ngld", "\n\nWhat makes you think Buck will still be in New York at year's end with\nGeorge back? :-)\n\n--\n Keith Keller\t\t\t\tLET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!\n\t\t\t\t\t\tLET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!\n\tkkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu\t\tIVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!", "I'm a season ticket holder and have a pair of S.F. Giants tickets available for\nevery game except opening day. They're located in lower reserved, section 3, \nrow 2. They're two rows (about 5 feet) behind the MVP lower box seats that\ngo for $17.25/apiece. I'm selling my tickets for $25/pair. Here's the \nschedule for the next 8 weeks. E-mail me if you're interested.\n\nNote - All times are Pacific Daylight Savings time\n\n\nApr 28 New York 7:35pm\nApr 29 New York 1:05pm\nApr 30 Montreal 7:35pm\n\nMay 1 Montreal 1:05pm\nMay 2 Montreal 1:05pm\nMay 4 Philadelphia 7:35pm\nMay 5 Philadelphia 1:05pm\nMay 7 Los Angeles 7:35pm\nMay 8 Los Angeles 1:05pm\nMay 9 Los Angeles 1:05pm\nMay 17 Houston 1:05pm\nMay 18 Houston 1:05pm\nMay 19 Houston 1:05pm\nMay 20 Cincinnati 1:05pm\nMay 21 Cincinnati 7:35pm\nMay 22 Cincinnati 1:05pm\nMay 23 Cincinnati 1:05pm\n\nJune 3 Pittsburgh 7:35pm\nJune 4 Pittsburgh 7:35pm\nJune 5 Pittsburgh 1:05pm\nJune 6 Pittsburgh 1:35pm\nJune 8 St. Louis 1:05pm\nJune 9 St. Louis 1:05pm\nJune 11 Chicago 7:35pm\nJune 12 Chicago 1:05pm\nJune 13 Chicago 1:05pm\nJune 21 San Diego 7:35pm\nJune 22 San Diego 7:35pm\nJune 23 San Diego 1:05pm\nJune 24 Colorado 1:05pm\nJune 25 Colorado 7:35pm\nJune 26 Colorado 1:05pm\nJune 27 Colorado 1:05pm\n\n", "\n\nAre you comparing Cullen to Salami? I would say that that is valid. If\nWinnipeg is such a lousy defensive team then why the hell does Salami\nstand around the other team's blueline when the puck is in his own end?\n\n\n\nExcuse me? Are the Jets playing .500 hockey? Let me check...yes - but just\nbarely. They have allowed more goals than they have scored. Sounds an\nawful lot like Salami's +/- to me. Sounds like they would be just as well\noff - or better - if he played the solid two-way game that our friends in\nFinland claim he is capable of. But if he did that he wouldn't be chal-\nlenging for the league lead in goals would he? The Bi-Planes might be\nchallenging for first however...\n\n\nNow let's see...you have compared Timo to Anderson and Cullen. Who's\nnext? Mike Foligno?\n\n\n\nSome of our Finnish friends who have watched him play claim that he\ncan play a solid two-way game. I would have to say that this style\nof contribution would be more conducive to winning. Or don't you \nthink so?\n\n\n\nI don't believe it! You did compare him to Foligno! (And I honestly hadn't\nread this far).\n\nIt would help if you used a little discrimination in your thinking. Your\ncontributions would be more highly valued if we could see that you weren't\ntrying to be merely argumentative.\n\ncordially, as always,\n\nrm\n", "Why did I get sucked into this?\n\n\nAssuming you're serious, I guess you'd be surprised to hear\nthat us GUYS don't think so. I would guess that a tiny fraction\nof 1% of the folks reading your post agree with it. I kind of\ndoubt that even you agree with it.\n\nI'm not going to go through your points one at a time, because, \nafter all, not many of them have anything at all to do with baseball.\n\nI'm only replying to this because you brought up Pam Postema, the\nAAA umpire who sued (is suing?) baseball on the grounds of sex\ndiscrimination because she wasn't promoted to the majors.\n\n\nI've never seen her ump a game. I have no first hand experience\nwith her ability as an umpire.\n\nBut I have seen her on talk shows. And her point seems to be\nthat she can call balls and strikes as well as any of the\numpires and she knows the rulebook better than most. It seems\nto me that she is missing the point and if that's how she sees\nthe role of umpires in the game, well I wouldn't promote her\neither.\n\nThe umpires primary role has nothing to do with calling baserunners\nsafe or out; hell, Joe Lundy could do that. Their primary function is\nto maintain order in the game, keep the game moving, and keep the\nplayers from trying to kill each other. \n\nUmpires have to be extremely tough people. That disqualifies most\nof us, both men and women. And if Ms. Postema thinks that she\ndeserves to be a major league umpire because of her command of\nthe rulebook, then I think that disqualifies her as well. Umpires\nneed to command the game; command of the rulebook is secondary.\n\n\n", "Here are the final stats for the CHL for the 1992-1993 season.\n\n Central Hockey League\n\n 5840 S. Memorial Drive\n Suite 205\n Tulsa, OK 74145\n Phone: (918) 664-8881\n Fax: (918) 664-2215\n\nFounder and President - Ray Miron\nCommissioner - Monte Miron\nMarketing Director - Jim Goodman\nInformation Director - Eric Kolb\n\nEach team is owned by the league, with local intrests controlling day to\nday operations. Working agreements and NHL affiliations are up to each\nteam.\n\nEach team has a $100,000 salary cap for 17 total players\n(16 dress up).\n\nEach team is limited to 11 visas, meaning at least 6 players must be\nAmericans (Ignore this rule if you are Tulsa, they only had 2 Americans\non the roster during the playoffs).\n\nTeams play in Wichita, Tulsa, Oklahoma City, Memphis, Fort Worth, and Dallas.\n\nFuture expansion plans include Houston, San Antonio, Baton Rouge, Little Rock,\nEl Paso, Albuquerque, Tuscon, and Amarillo. Austin is a possibility if Dallas\nhas to move. Houston and San Antonio are in for this fall, with Baton Rouge\nand Little Rock likely for 94-95.\n\nTEAMS:\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n Fort Worth Fire | Wichita Thunder\n |\nArena: Tarrant Co. Conv. Cen. (11,342) | Kansas Coliseum (9,686)\nColors: Red and Black | Blue , silver, and black\nGM: George Branum | Bill Shuck\nCoach: Pete Mahavolich | Doug Sheddan\nPhone #: (817) 335-FIRE | (316) 264-4625\nSeason Tix: $300 / $240 | $250 / $170\nSingle Tix: $12 / $10 | $9 / $6\nRadio: |\nAnnouncers: |\n |\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n Dallas Freeze | Tulsa Oilers\n |\nArena: Fair Park Coliseum (7,500) | Civic Center (6,847)\nColors: Teal and Black | Orange and Blue\nGM: Tom Koch | Jeff D. Lund\nCoach: Ron Flockhart | Gary Unger Personal Guardians\nPhone #: (214) 421-PUCK | (918) 663-5888 ------------------\nSeason Tix: $300 / $240 | Ray and Monte\nSingle Tix: $12 / $10 / $7 | $9 / $6 Miron\nRadio: KSKY-AM 660 | KTRT-AM 1270\nAnnouncers-Bruce LeVine | Jeff Brucculeri\n Mark Stone | Jeff Bowen\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n Memphis River Kings | Oklahoma City Blazers\n |\nArena: Mid-South Coliseum (9,384) | Myriad (13,399) & State Fair Arena \nColors: Gold and Black | Red, Yellow, and Black (9,760)\nGM: Jim Riggs | Brad Lund \nCoach: Steve Carlson | Mike McEwen\nPhone #: (901) 278-9009 | (405) 235-PUCK\nSeason Tix: | $250 / $170\nSingle Tix: $9 / $6 | $9 / $6\nRadio: KREC-AM 600 | WWLS-AM 640\nAnnouncers-Dave Woloshin | John Brooks\n Tom Stocker | Brian Barnhart\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n92-93 regular season standings\n \n W L OTL PTS GF GA PIM AVG ATTDNCE (% cap)\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nOklahoma City Blazers.... 39 18 3 81 291 232 1561 7,827 64.2 %\nTulsa Ice Oilers......... 35 22 3 73 270 230 1430 5,547 81.0 %\nDallas Freeze............ 31 25 4 66 276 242 1604 4,427 59.0 %\nMemphis RiverKings....... 26 27 7 59 253 272 1670 5,590 59.6 %\nFort Worth Fire.......... 24 29 7 55 252 288 1747 4,920 43.7 %\nWichita Thunder.......... 25 33 2 52 242 320 1876 4,474 46.2 %\n\nPlayoffs: Tulsa defeated Dallas, 4 games to 3 (WLLWWLW)\n Oklahoma City defeated Memphis, 4 games to 2 (WWLLWW)\n\nLevin Trophy Finals: Tulsa defeated Oklahoma City, 4 games to 1 (WWLWW)\n\nPlayoff MVP: Tony Fiore, Tulsa (special votes to Ray and Monte Miron)\n\nTeam vs. Team: 92-93\n--------------------\n Dallas Fort Worth Memphis Oklahoma City Tulsa Wichita\nDallas.......... ----- 9-2-1 5-5-2 5-6-1 5-7-0 7-5-0\nFort Worth...... 3-7-2 ----- 4-6-2 4-8-0 8-3-1 5-5-2\nMemphis......... 7-4-1 8-3-1 ----- 2-8-2 2-8-2 7-4-1\nOklahoma City... 7-4-1 8-3-1 10-2-0 ----- 6-6-0 8-3-1\nTulsa........... 7-5-0 4-7-1 10-2-0 6-6-0 ----- 8-2-2\nWichita......... 5-7-0 7-3-2 5-7-0 4-8-0 4-8-0 -----\n\n Power Play Statistics Penalty Killng Statistics\n PPG Opp ShGA Pct. PPG Saves Opp ShG Pct.\nOkla. City 70 275 2 25.45 Okla. City 58 241 299 16 80.60\nTulsa 72 291 12 24.74 Dallas 68 278 346 14 80.34\nDallas 64 286 10 22.37 Tulsa 77 276 353 16 78.18\nFort Worth 85 387 16 21.96 Wichita 75 235 310 5 75.806\nWichita 81 396 24 20.45 Memphis 83 260 343 12 75.801\nMemphis 65 329 12 19.75 Fort Worth 76 237 313 13 75.71\n\nPenalty Record\n 10-Min Game Gross Oppn\n PIM Avg. Minor Major Bench Misc Misc Misc Match PIM\nWichita 1876 31.3 433 84 20 22 24 0 3 1998\nFort Worth 1747 29.1 471 59 29 26 23 2 0 1911\nMemphis 1670 27.8 480 56 28 28 13 1 1 1593\nDallas 1604 26.7 477 60 2 20 15 0 0 1534\nOkla. City 1561 26.0 438 67 14 14 21 0 0 1609\nTulsa 1430 23.8 505 26 6 21 8 0 0 1243\n\nScoring By Period\n 1st Period 2nd Period 3rd Period Overtime Shootout Totals\n GF GA GF GA GF GA GF GA GF GA GF GA\nDallas 76 82 106 82 90 74 0 1 4 3 276 242\nFort Worth 70 81 92 112 84 88 3 5 3 2 252 288\nMemphis 66 88 101 89 82 88 2 3 2 4 253 272\nOkla.City 98 87 82 71 108 71 1 1 2 2 291 232\nTulsa 99 58 92 83 76 86 3 1 0 2 270 230\nWichita 79 92 73 109 84 117 2 0 4 2 242 320\n\n 92-93 All-Star Team\n -------------------\n\nPosition First Team Second Team\n-------- ---------- -----------\nGoaltender... Tony Martino, Tulsa Robert Desjardins, Wichita (tie)\n Alan Perry, Oklahoma City (tie)\n\nDefensemen... Dave Doucette, Dallas Mike Berger, Dallas\n Guy Girouard, Oklahoma City Tom Karalis, Tulsa\n\nCenter....... Carl Boudreau, Oklahoma City Joe Burton, Oklahoma City\n\nLeft Wing.... Sylvain Fleury, Oklahoma City Doug Lawrence, Tulsa\n\nRight Wing... Daniel Larin, Oklahoma City Tom Mutch, Memphis (tie\n Sylvain Naud, Tulsa (tie)\n\nRegular Season MVP: Sylvain Fleury, Oklahoma City\nRookie of the Year: Bobby Desjardins, Wichita\nLeading Defenseman: Dave Doucette, Dallas\nLeading Goaltender: Tony Martino, Tulsa\n\nScoring Leaders:\n----------------\nPOINTS Team GP G A PTS GOALS Team GP G\nFleury, Sylvain OKC 59 48 53 101 Fleury, Sylvain OKC 53 48\nLawrence, Doug TUL 57 22 73 95 Larin, Daniel OKC 48 43\nNaud, Sylvain TUL 58 39 48 87 Mutch, Tom MEM 59 43\nMutch, Tom MEM 59 43 38 81 Thibodeau, Ken MEM 54 40\nHall, Taylor TUL 58 35 45 80 Naud, Sylvain TUL 58 39\nThibodeau, Ken MEM 54 40 35 75 Taylor, Jason DAL 60 38\nAnchikoski, Wayne DAL 57 35 37 72 \nBoudreau, Carl OKC 48 27 44 71 ASSISTS Team GP A\nLarin, Daniel OKC 48 43 27 70 Lawrence, Doug TUL 57 73\nTaylor, Jason DAL 60 38 32 70 Fleury, Sylvain OKC 59 53\nDent, Ted WCH 60 25 44 69 Naud, Sylvain TUL 58 48\nSanderson, Mike FTW 60 37 31 68 Doucette, Dave DAL 50 46\nGatti, Dave WCH 58 35 32 67 Hall, Taylor TUL 58 45\nNobili, Mario TUL 54 31 34 65 Girouard, Guy OKC 60 45\nCyr, Keith WCH 58 21 44 65 \nD'Amario, Peter MEM 60 28 35 63 PENALTY MINUTES Team GP PIM \nJohnston, Scot MEM 51 23 40 63 Aubrey, Ron FTW 28 237\nBurton, Joe OKC 55 35 26 61 Karalis, Tom TUL 56 235\nSimoni, Steve OKC 56 33 28 61 Johnson, Craig OKC 50 219\nHornak, Ernest FTW 52 22 37 59 Neish, Greg WCH 34 212\nFiore, Tony TUL 37 23 35 58 Batten, John MEM 29 210\nDoucette, Dave DAL 50 10 46 56 Taylor, Jason DAL 60 210\n\nLEADING GOALTENDERS (20 or more games)\n TEAM GPI MIN GAA W-L-OTL EN SO GA Saves Save Pct.\nMartino, Tony TUL 39 2182 3.66 23-13-2 0 2 133 1186 .899\nPerry, Alan OKC 40 2406 3.72 25-13-2 3 0 149 1304 .897\nZanier, Mike DAL 40 2384 3.78 24-14-2 3 1 150 1223 .891\nMindjimba, Antoine MEM 56 3097 4.15 26-21-6 4 1 214 1603 .882\nSmith, Greg DAL 21 1243 4.15 7-11-2 0 0 86 753 .897\nDesjardins, Bobby WCH 52 2849 4.63 21-26-2 6 1 220 1877 .895\nBelley, Roch FTW 33 1728 4.75 14-13-2 3 0 141 974 .874\n\nOther Goalies \n TEAM GPI MIN GAA W-L-OTL EN SO GA Saves Save Pct.\nFlatt, Brian TUL 11 488 3.44 4-3-1 1 1 28 274 .907\nKrake, Paul OKC 17 1029 3.50 13-3-1 0 0 60 583 .907\nLoewen, Jamie TUL 13 681 3.79 6-5-0 1 0 43 399 .903\nOcello, Matt FTW 4 179 3.69 3-1-0 1 0 11 100 .901\nOcello, Matt TUL 1 34 5.29 0-0-0 0 0 3 13 .813\n(Totals) 5 213 3.94 3-1-0 1 0 14 113 .890\nRaymond, Eric TUL 3 181 3.98 2-1-0 0 0 12 87 .879\nO'Hara, Michael FTW 18 911 4.28 6-6-2 0 0 65 559 .896\nVasko, Steve MEM 15 535 5.16 0-6-1 4 0 46 235 .836\nTrentadue, Rocco FTW 17 746 4.99 1-9-3 3 0 62 365 .855\nTrentadue, Rocco OKC 2 120 6.50 0-2-0 0 0 13 93 .877\n(Totals) 19 866 5.20 1-11-3 3 0 75 458 .859\nHarvey, Alain WCH 5 240 5.50 2-2-0 2 0 22 126 .851\nGosselin, Yannick WCH 10 345 6.43 2-3-0 0 0 37 227 .860\nGosselin, Yannick OKC 1 60 5.00 1-0-0 0 0 5 26 .839\n(Totals) 11 405 6.22 3-3-0 0 0 42 253 .896\nCaton, Murray WCH 2 120 9.00 0-2-0 0 0 18 84 .824\nMcDonnell, Dan TUL 1 34 8.83 0-0-0 0 0 5 24 .828\nSauer, E.J. TUL 1 12 10.00 0-0-0 0 0 2 4 .667\nClark, Joel WCH 2 48 10.00 0-0-0 0 0 8 29 .784\nWachter, Steve WCH 2 24 12.50 0-0-0 0 0 5 6 .545\n", "\n\nHow do you figure that?? When Bryan Murray took over the Wings they were\na pretty good team that was contending for the Stanley Cup but looked\nunlikely to win it. Now they are a pretty good team that is contending for\nthe Stanley Cup but looks unlikely to win it. A truly great GM would\nhave been able to make the moves to push the team to the upper echelon\nof the NHL and maybe win the Stanley Cup. A good GM (like Murray) can\nmaintain the team's success but can't push them to the next level.\n\nIn the history of hockey there have been several better GM's than Murray-\nway too many to name. Murray isn't even the best GM in the league today.\nHe fails in comparison to Sinden, Sather, Savard, Caron, Fletcher and\nQuinn in my estimation.\n\nI can't imagine how Bryan Murray can be the best GM anyone has ever seen\nin hockey- unless they have seen VERY few GM's.", "\n\nLots of debate about the virtues of Bryan Murray vs Pat Quinn as a GM\ndeleted. Randy Graca seems to think Murray is the best GM in the league.\nI think Quinn is one of several who are better.\n\n\nWhen Quinn took over Vancouver- several years ago, NOT LAST YEAR, they \nregularily missed the playoffs. I can't recall if they missed the playoffs\nthe year before his hiring but they probably did. Quinn has improved the\nteam from non-playoff calibre to a serious contender.\n\nWhen Murray took over in Detroit, the were about a .500 team that was a\ncontender to win the Norris division and possibly even a Stanley Cup\ncontender.\n\nSo Quinn has improved his team more than Murray has since taking over as a GM.\nQuinn is one example of a better GM than Murray.", "\nI saw Messier and Leetch shooting at a camera on Letterman(?). I\ncould have been any show though, since I watch NONE of those late\nnight shows very regularly.\n\t\t\t\t\t-John Santore\n\nPhiladelphia Flyers in '93-'94! \n\n=============================================================================\n ____________________ \n/ \\ \"We break the surface tension \n\\_________ ____ \\ with our wild kinetic dreams\"\n/ / \\ \\ -Rush, Grand Designs\n\\_______ / (*) ) )\n/ / /\\___/ / Go Philadelphia Flyers!\n\\_____ / / /\n/ / \\_______/ John Santore (jsbh@andrew.cmu.edu)\n\\________/ ", "The Blackhawks shall triumph.", "Aargh!\n\nPaul Stewart is the worst and most biased ref. presently in the NHL.\nHe called a total of 4 penalties on the Habs and one on the Nordiques.\nThe Nords' penalty came in O.T. Stewart, being an ex-Nordique himself,\nwas looking to call penalties on the Habs while letting the Nords\nget away with murder...WE WAS ROBBED!!!!\n\nIt was an excellent game with plenty of end-to-end rushes and tremendous\ngoalkeeping. The Nords tied it with over 1 minute to go while Lebeau\nwas serving a penalty. I don't mind Stewart calling a penalty in the\nlast 5 min. of the game, but AT LEAST BE FAIR ABOUT IT. The Nords were\ncaught with their hand in the cookie jar more than once. Stewart turned\nthe other cheek...BASTARD!\n\nPatrick Roy collapsed after letting in the tieing goal. He was shaky and\non his knees for the rest of the night. The winning goal shouldn't have\ngone in.\n\nDon't get me wrong, I'm not blaming the loss on Stewart. The Habs had\nplenty of chances to capitalize, Muller, LeClair, Haller, etc. but\nfailed to put the puck in the net. That's what did them in. But\nMr. Stewart didn't help matters at all.\n\nOh well, at least the Bruins lost in O.T. also Ha, Ha!!--)\n\n ,,,\n (0-0)\n============================oOO(_)OOo===================================\nThe Czar of Mainframe Computing \nMcGill University\n\n --> I'M TOO SEXY FOR COBOL.\n\n---> Habs...will beat the Nords in 7!!!!\n\n---> Let's Go Expos!\n ===========================================\n | Hickory, dickory doc, |\n | She took a good look at your cock. |\n | It's really scary all rinkled and hairy,|\n | It smells like a 10 year old sock! |\n | --Andrew Dice Clay |\n ===========================================", "\n\n\n\n\n\nConsidering how often and how badly he has slammed the Pens on Coach's \nCorner on Hockey Night in Canada, it would surprise me as well. But then,\npeople will do anything for money, won't they?\n\n", "\nYou must be kidding, right? In losing Stevens the Blues got Shanahan and\nkept\nJoseph. Then they traded Oates for Janney. As a Hawks fan you have got to\nrespect those \"hapless\" names. 8^) Lets see, who scored the game winning\novertime goal in the 4th game???\n\n", "NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!\nWHAT KIND OF HAPPY GRASS YOU ARE SMOKING? MAYBE YOU SHOULD SHARE SOME WITH ME.\nFIRST OF ALL, LOU GEHRIG IS THE GREATEST FIRST BASEMAN EVER. JIMMIE FOXX IS\nCLEARLY THE NEXT BEST FIRST BASEMAN EVER. HE COULD BE THE GREATEST FIRST\nBASEMAN OF THE YANKEES IN THE MODERN ERA. TO PUT HIM IN THIS \"BEST IN THE\nHISTORY OF BASEBALL\" IS QUITE HUMOROUS, VERY SILLY, AND TOTALLY OFF THE LINE.\n", "Compiled from the last five Defensive Average reports, here are the career\nDAs for the individual players in the reports. Stats are courtesy of\nSherri Nichols. Players are listed in descending order.\n\nThird Basemen\n-------------\n\nName 1988 1989 1990 1991 1992 88-92\nMitchell, Kevin .690 ---- ---- ---- ---- 0.690\nGonzales, Rene .685 ---- ---- ---- ---- 0.685\nLeius, Scott ---- ---- ---- .653 .680 0.672\nPendleton, Terry .692 .685 .631 .689 .634 0.667\nVentura, Robin ---- ---- .641 .647 .677 0.657\nWallach, Tim .728 .674 .600 .630 .665 0.657\nGruber, Kelly .717 .657 .580 .630 .664 0.650\nPagliarulo, Mike .631 ---- .575 .744 ---- 0.649\nHarris, Lance ---- ---- .642 .652 ---- 0.648\nHowell, Jack .656 .666 .609 ---- ---- 0.647\nWilliams, Matt ---- ---- .633 .653 .656 0.647\nCaminiti, Ken ---- .675 .630 .653 .596 0.642\nSabo, Chris .751 .626 .616 .613 .575 0.642\nGaetti, Gary .616 .638 .655 .632 ---- 0.637\nBuechele, Steve .647 .616 .647 .681 .599 0.635\nSalazar, Luis ---- .617 .643 .637 ---- 0.632\nPecota, Bill ---- ---- ---- .629 ---- 0.629\nSchmidt, Mike .628 ---- ---- ---- ---- 0.628\nRiles, Ernie ---- .627 ---- ---- ---- 0.627\nBoggs, Wade .643 .659 .550 .653 .634 0.626\nMartinez, Egdar ---- ---- .621 .645 .599 0.624\nMolitor, Paul .633 .617 ---- ---- ---- 0.624\nPhillips, Tony ---- ---- .623 ---- ---- 0.623\n*NL Average* .643 .625 .602 .623 .603 0.619\nBrookens, Tom .616 ---- ---- ---- ---- 0.616\nKing, Jeff ---- ---- .616 ---- ---- 0.616\nSeitzer, Kevin .654 .583 .593 ---- .635 0.616\n*AL Average* .641 .612 .604 .620 .602 0.615\nJacoby, Brook .624 .621 .600 ---- .597 0.613\nHansen, Dave ---- ---- ---- ---- .611 0.611\nLaw, Vance .635 .576 ---- ---- ---- 0.611\nMagadan, Dave ---- ---- ---- ---- .609 0.609\nJefferies, Greg ---- ---- ---- ---- .606 0.606\nSharperson, Mike ---- ---- .606 ---- ---- 0.606\nZeile, Todd ---- ---- ---- .614 .593 0.605\nBaerga, Carlos ---- ---- ---- .604 ---- 0.604\nHayes, Chris ---- .601 .622 .606 .574 0.602\nLivingstone, Scott ---- ---- ---- ---- .597 0.597\nHamilton, J. .611 .584 ---- ---- ---- 0.595\nKelly, Pat ---- ---- ---- .595 ---- 0.595\nLyons, Steve .590 ---- ---- ---- ---- 0.590\nOberkfell, Ken .590 ---- ---- ---- ---- 0.590\nJohnson, Howard .628 .549 .611 .573 ---- 0.588\nBell, Buddy .587 ---- ---- ---- ---- 0.587\nLansford, Carney .620 .578 .594 ---- .550 0.587\nPresley, Jim .643 .595 .530 ---- ---- 0.584\nSchu, Rick ---- .584 ---- ---- ---- 0.584\nWorthington, Cal ---- .583 .575 ---- ---- 0.580\nHollins, Dave ---- ---- ---- ---- .577 0.577\nSheffield, Gary ---- ---- .584 ---- .567 0.575\nBlauser, Jeff ---- .573 ---- ---- ---- 0.573\nFryman, Travis ---- ---- ---- .571 ---- 0.571\nGantner, Jim ---- ---- ---- .570 ---- 0.570\nGomez, Lee ---- ---- ---- .551 .542 0.546\nPalmer, Dean ---- ---- ---- ---- .520 0.520\n-- \nDale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Grad Student At Large", "Is there any judgement call on the part of the scorer for sac fly RBI's?\nThis is the situation that brought the question up:\n\nThe Red Sox were up in the bottom of the 9th by a score of 5-1. The Mariners\nhad the bases loaded with 1 out. The batter hits a fly to center, which the\nfielder catches. The runner at third tags and scores without a throw. \n\nNow, without a judgement call (and I don't think there is one), this is an RBI\nfor the batter. It seems to me that a better name for this would be \"defensive\nindifference\", since it doesn't really matter whether the guy at third scores\nat that point. (I know, I can think of several \"If the Mariners stole third\nand second, which opening the base would allow, and then the batter hit a\ngrounder which the third baseman gets deep in the hole between himself and\nthird, he wouldn't have a play at home, third, or second for the out, and\nmaybe he therefore can't make the throw to first to get the last out, etc...\nscenarios, too. But does it _really_ matter if this guy scores this way when\nyou're down by 4? If the tying run is going to score, so is the guy on third.)\n\nThe point is that the batter (IMO) shouldn't get \"credit\" (an RBI) for utterly\nfailing to do his job - which at this point is to get a hit or a walk, not\ntrade an out for one run. What do you guys think?", " --Minnesota definitely deserves an NHL franchise!!! You'll see the\nMinnesota Whalers pretty soon, so fear not Minnesota fans. No Norm Green,\n'cept for the team color (sorry, bad pun!)\n\n --What a difference two years makes! Minnesota finished 29-37-14 in 1992\nand made the finals. They finish with a better record at 38-38-10 thi year\nand move to Dallas. Every team in the playoffs has a winning record!!!\nFinally!!! It's about time, NHL!!!", "\nGenerally I agree with you. However, (1) last night ESPN cut away to Baseball\nTonite, which looks like SportsCenter tailored to baseball, and they cut\naway at 7:40 pacific. That's quite a contract they have there. (2) if\nESPN couldn't deliver, they should have had a transistion plan to\nlet SportsChannel pick up the slack.\n\nNonetheless, it is ultimately the fault of the US-American public that regular\nseason baseball has precedence over playoff hockey in the U.S.\nSupport your team; support your game.\n\nSomebody in r.s.h. had an excellent idea that we should write Chrysler\nto thank them for supporting hockey with their ads and that we would\nconsider their products. Here's an equally excellent idea, watch\nbaseball for 10 minutes (I know I'm asking a lot, but that's what spew\nbags are for), write down who is advertising, and write them letters\ncomplaining that they are supporting baseball to your displeasure and\nthat you won't consider buying their products because of it.", " \n\nHmmmm, I'm not sure this is true. According to Mike Lang and good old\nStagie, along with the rest of the TV crews in pittsburgh, they \nwinning streak could have stopped because it is a regular season mark.\nI would think this would also hold with an unbeaten streak for regular\nseason games.", "Hi there again...\nI still have a few tapes left...\n\nAs before they are $2.50 each (postage paid) - Or Best Offer...\nMultiple orders appreciated, but not necessary...\nPackage deals welcome...\n\nThanks...\nChris Bray\n\nLewis, Huey|Sports\n\tContains \"Heart of Rock and Roll\", \"Heart and Soul\", \"Want a New\n\tDrug\", \"Walking on a Thin Line\", \"If This is It\", and more!!!\n\nHooters: Nervous Night\n\tContains: And We Danced, Day By Day, All You Zombies, Nervous Night...\n\nPoison|Look What the Cat Dragged In\n\tTheir 1st tape. Contains \"Cry Tough\", \"I Wont Forget You\", \n\t\"Talk Dirty to Me\", and more!\n\nHall & Oates|Big Bam Boom\n\tContains: \"Out of Touch\", \"Possession Obsession\", and more!\n\nRatt|Out of the Cellar\n\tContains: Wanted Man, Round and Round, and more!\n\nQuiet Riot|Condition Critical\n\tContains: Mama Weer All Krazy Now\n\nOutfield|Play Deep\n\tContains: Say It Isn't So, Your Love, All the Love in the World,\n\tand more!\n\nPlant, Robert|Shaken n' Stirred\n\tContains: Little By Little\n\nJourney|Raised on Radio\n\tContains: Girl Cant Help It, Suzanne, Be Good to Yourself, Ill Be\n\tAlright Without You, Why Cant This Night Go On Forever...\n\nMonkees|Then and Now - The Best of the Monkees\n\tContains: All their big hits plus some...\n\nINXS|Kick\n\tContains: Mediate, New Sensation, Devil Inside, Need You Tonight,\n\tNever Tear Us Apart, Mystify, and more! GREAT TAPE....\n\n", "I have posted the logos of the NL East teams to alt.binaries.pictures.misc \n Hopefully, I'll finish the series up next week with the NL West.\n\n Darren\n", "Here is the price list for the week April 6 to April 12.\n\n\t- Andrew\n\nBuy\tSell\tPts\tTeam\tPlayer\n157.5\t141.8\t150\tPIT\tMario_Lemieux\n152.1\t136.9\t143\tBUF\tPat_LaFontaine\n139.3\t125.4\t131\tBOS\tAdam_Oates\n133.8\t120.4\t129\tDET\tSteve_Yzerman\n132.9\t119.6\t125\tWPG\tTeemu_Selanne\n132.9\t119.6\t125\tTOR\tDoug_Gilmour\n130.9\t117.8\t120\tNYI\tPierre_Turgeon\n129.7\t116.7\t122\tBUF\tAlexander_Mogilny\n126.0\t113.4\t117\tPHI\tMark_Recchi\n120.2\t108.2\t113\tLA\tLuc_Robitaille\n115.9\t104.3\t109\tQUE\tMats_Sundin\n111.3\t100.2\t106\tPIT\tKevin_Stevens\n108.5\t97.7\t102\tSTL\tCraig_Janney\n108.5\t97.7\t102\tVAN\tPavel_Bure\n106.3\t95.7\t100\tCHI\tJeremy_Roenick\n105.3\t94.8\t99\tQUE\tJoe_Sakic\n104.0\t93.6\t99\tPIT\tRick_Tocchet\n103.1\t92.8\t97\tSTL\tBrett_Hull\n102.1\t91.9\t96\tBOS\tJoe_Juneau\n102.1\t91.9\t96\tTOR\tDave_Andreychuk\n101.9\t91.7\t97\tPIT\tRon_Francis\n99.8\t89.8\t95\tMTL\tVincent_Damphousse\n98.9\t89.0\t93\tMIN\tMike_Modano\n98.9\t89.0\t93\tWPG\tPhil_Housley\n98.9\t89.0\t93\tCGY\tTheoren_Fleury\n97.8\t88.0\t92\tBUF\tDale_Hawerchuk\n97.7\t87.9\t93\tMTL\tKirk_Muller\n96.0\t86.4\t88\tNYR\tMark_Messier\n94.6\t85.1\t89\tSTL\tBrendan_Shanahan\n94.4\t85.0\t91\tDET\tDino_Ciccarelli\n91.4\t82.3\t86\tLA\tJari_Kurri\n91.4\t82.3\t87\tPIT\tJaromir_Jagr\n90.3\t81.3\t86\tMTL\tBrian_Bellows\n88.3\t79.5\t82\tWSH\tPeter_Bondra\n87.3\t78.6\t80\tHFD\tGeoff_Sanderson\n87.2\t78.5\t82\tCGY\tRobert_Reichel\n87.2\t78.5\t82\tQUE\tSteve_Duchesne\n87.1\t78.4\t84\tDET\tPaul_Coffey\n86.1\t77.5\t83\tDET\tSergei_Fedorov\n85.1\t76.6\t79\tTB\tBrian_Bradley\n85.1\t76.6\t79\tPHI\tRod_Brind'Amour\n85.1\t76.6\t81\tPIT\tLarry_Murphy\n84.0\t75.6\t77\tHFD\tAndrew_Cassels\n84.0\t75.6\t77\tHFD\tPat_Verbeek\n84.0\t75.6\t79\tLA\tTony_Granato\n84.0\t75.6\t78\tWSH\tMike_Ridley\n84.0\t75.6\t77\tNYI\tSteve_Thomas\n83.0\t74.7\t79\tMTL\tStephan_Lebeau\n81.8\t73.6\t76\tWSH\tDale_Hunter\n80.8\t72.7\t76\tQUE\tMike_Ricci\n80.8\t72.7\t76\tBOS\tRay_Bourque\n78.6\t70.7\t73\tWSH\tKevin_Hatcher\n77.7\t69.9\t74\tSJ\tKelly_Kisio\n77.6\t69.8\t73\tVAN\tCliff_Ronning\n77.6\t69.8\t73\tSTL\tJeff_Brown\n77.6\t69.8\t73\tTOR\tNikolai_Borschevsky\n76.6\t68.9\t72\tNJ\tClaude_Lemieux\n76.6\t68.9\t72\tMIN\tDave_Gagner\n76.6\t68.9\t72\tMIN\tRuss_Courtnall\n76.4\t68.8\t70\tNYR\tTony_Amonte\n75.5\t68.0\t71\tVAN\tMurray_Craven\n75.5\t68.0\t71\tLA\tJimmy_Carson\n75.5\t68.0\t71\tCGY\tGary_Suter\n75.5\t68.0\t71\tMIN\tUlf_Dahlen\n74.4\t67.0\t70\tVAN\tGeoff_Courtnall\n74.4\t67.0\t70\tBOS\tDmitri_Kvartalnov\n74.3\t66.9\t69\tWSH\tMichal_Pivonka\n74.2\t66.8\t68\tNYI\tDerek_King\n74.2\t66.8\t68\tNYI\tBenoit_Hogue\n73.4\t66.1\t69\tQUE\tOwen_Nolan\n73.4\t66.1\t69\tCHI\tSteve_Larmer\n73.4\t66.1\t69\tNJ\tAlexander_Semak\n73.1\t65.8\t67\tNYR\tMike_Gartner\n72.3\t65.1\t68\tSTL\tNelson_Emerson\n72.3\t65.1\t68\tCHI\tChris_Chelios\n72.2\t65.0\t67\tPHI\tEric_Lindros\n71.1\t64.0\t66\tWSH\tAl_Iafrate\n70.2\t63.2\t66\tVAN\tTrevor_Linden\n70.2\t63.2\t66\tLA\tMike_Donnelly\n70.0\t63.0\t65\tWSH\tDmitri_Khristich\n69.3\t62.4\t66\tPIT\tJoe_Mullen\n69.1\t62.2\t65\tCGY\tJoe_Nieuwendyk\n69.1\t62.2\t65\tNJ\tStephane_Richer\n68.1\t61.3\t64\tWPG\tAlexei_Zhamnov\n68.1\t61.3\t64\tWPG\tThomas_Steen\n68.1\t61.3\t64\tQUE\tAndrei_Kovalenko\n68.1\t61.3\t64\tVAN\tPetr_Nedved\n66.5\t59.9\t61\tNYR\tAdam_Graves\n66.5\t59.9\t61\tHFD\tZarley_Zalapski\n66.4\t59.8\t64\tDET\tRay_Sheppard\n64.9\t58.4\t61\tTOR\tGlenn_Anderson\n64.1\t57.7\t61\tSJ\tJohan_Garpenlov\n63.8\t57.4\t60\tOTT\tNorm_Maciver\n63.0\t56.7\t60\tMTL\tMike_Keane\n63.0\t56.7\t60\tPIT\tShawn_McEachern\n62.7\t56.4\t59\tLA\tRob_Blake\n62.7\t56.4\t59\tLA\tWayne_Gretzky\n62.5\t56.3\t58\tPHI\tGarry_Galley\n62.5\t56.3\t58\tPHI\tBrent_Fedyk\n61.1\t55.0\t56\tNYI\tPat_Flatley\n60.6\t54.5\t57\tCGY\tSergei_Makarov\n60.6\t54.5\t57\tNJ\tBernie_Nicholls\n60.1\t54.1\t58\tDET\tSteve_Chiasson\n59.5\t53.6\t56\tCHI\tSteve_Smith\n59.5\t53.6\t56\tQUE\tScott_Young\n59.1\t53.2\t57\tDET\tPaul_Ysebaert\n58.9\t53.0\t54\tNYR\tSergei_Nemchinov\n58.5\t52.7\t55\tNJ\tValeri_Zelepukin\n58.2\t52.4\t54\tWSH\tPat_Elynuik\n58.2\t52.4\t54\tTB\tJohn_Tucker\n58.2\t52.4\t54\tPHI\tKevin_Dineen\n57.4\t51.7\t54\tVAN\tGreg_Adams\n56.4\t50.8\t53\tWPG\tDarrin_Shannon\n55.6\t50.0\t51\tNYR\tDarren_Turcotte\n55.3\t49.8\t52\tNJ\tScott_Stevens\n55.0\t48.8\t51\tCHI\tChristian_Ruuttu\n55.0\t48.8\t51\tVAN\tDixon_Ward\n55.0\t48.8\t51\tWPG\tFredrik_Olausson\n55.0\t48.2\t49\tNYR\tEd_Olczyk\n55.0\t47.9\t50\tWPG\tKeith_Tkachuk\n55.0\t47.2\t48\tNYI\tJeff_Norton\n55.0\t46.9\t49\tTOR\tJohn_Cullen\n55.0\t46.9\t49\tVAN\tAnatoli_Semenov\n55.0\t46.9\t49\tCGY\tAl_MacInnis\n55.0\t46.9\t49\tBOS\tStephen_Leach\n55.0\t45.9\t48\tCHI\tBrent_Sutter\n55.0\t45.4\t48\tMTL\tDenis_Savard\n55.0\t45.2\t46\tHFD\tTerry_Yake\n55.0\t45.0\t47\tNJ\tJohn_MacLean\n55.0\t44.6\t46\tWSH\tSylvain_Cote\n55.0\t44.0\t46\tEDM\tPetr_Klima\n55.0\t44.0\t46\tEDM\tShayne_Corson\n55.0\t44.0\t46\tLA\tTomas_Sandstrom\n55.0\t44.0\t46\tEDM\tCraig_Simpson\n55.0\t43.5\t46\tMTL\tGilbert_Dionne\n55.0\t43.2\t44\tNYI\tVladimir_Malakhov\n55.0\t43.0\t45\tBOS\tDave_Poulin\n55.0\t43.0\t45\tSTL\tKevin_Miller\n55.0\t43.0\t45\tLA\tAlexei_Zhitnik\n55.0\t43.0\t45\tQUE\tMartin_Rucinsky\n55.0\t43.0\t45\tWPG\tEvgeny_Davydov\n55.0\t42.7\t44\tWSH\tKelly_Miller\n55.0\t42.1\t44\tEDM\tDoug_Weight\n55.0\t42.1\t44\tEDM\tDave_Manson\n55.0\t41.2\t42\tHFD\tPatrick_Poulin\n55.0\t41.1\t43\tCHI\tMichel_Goulet\n55.0\t40.7\t42\tPHI\tPelle_Eklund\n55.0\t40.2\t42\tMIN\tMark_Tinordi\n55.0\t39.7\t42\tMTL\tMathieu_Schneider\n55.0\t39.2\t41\tCGY\tPaul_Ranheim\n55.0\t39.2\t41\tEDM\tTodd_Elik\n55.0\t39.2\t41\tBOS\tVladimir_Ruzicka\n55.0\t39.2\t41\tOTT\tSylvain_Turgeon\n55.0\t37.4\t39\tTOR\tDave_Ellett\n55.0\t37.4\t40\tDET\tNiklas_Lidstrom\n55.0\t37.4\t40\tDET\tBob_Probert\n55.0\t36.4\t38\tNJ\tPeter_Stastny\n55.0\t36.4\t37\tNYR\tEsa_Tikkanen\n55.0\t36.4\t38\tOTT\tBrad_Shaw\n55.0\t36.4\t38\tTOR\tWendel_Clark\n55.0\t36.4\t38\tBUF\tYuri_Khmylev\n55.0\t35.4\t37\tVAN\tSergio_Momesso\n55.0\t35.4\t37\tOTT\tBob_Kudelski\n55.0\t35.4\t36\tNYR\tBrian_Leetch\n55.0\t35.4\t37\tNJ\tBobby_Holik\n55.0\t34.5\t36\tTOR\tRob_Pearson\n55.0\t34.5\t36\tMIN\tMike_McPhee\n55.0\t34.4\t35\tNYR\tAlexei_Kovalev\n55.0\t33.9\t35\tTB\tAdam_Creighton\n55.0\t33.5\t35\tEDM\tZdeno_Ciger\n55.0\t32.6\t34\tLA\tCorey_Millen\n55.0\t32.6\t34\tCHI\tDirk_Graham\n55.0\t31.6\t33\tTOR\tPeter_Zezel\n55.0\t30.6\t32\tBOS\tTed_Donato\n55.0\t30.6\t32\tQUE\tValery_Kamensky\n55.0\t30.2\t32\tMTL\tGary_Leeman\n55.0\t29.9\t32\tDET\tKeith_Primeau\n55.0\t29.7\t31\tBUF\tWayne_Presley\n55.0\t29.7\t31\tMIN\tNeal_Broten\n55.0\t29.7\t31\tBOS\tSteve_Heinze\n55.0\t29.1\t30\tPHI\tJosef_Beranek\n55.0\t28.7\t30\tCHI\tStephane_Matteau\n55.0\t28.7\t30\tBUF\tRichard_Smehlik\n55.0\t28.7\t30\tTOR\tDmitri_Mironov\n55.0\t28.4\t29\tNYI\tBrian_Mullen\n55.0\t27.2\t28\tPHI\tDmitri_Yushkevich\n55.0\t26.8\t28\tCHI\tBrian_Noonan\n55.0\t26.8\t28\tEDM\tScott_Mellanby\n55.0\t26.5\t28\tSJ\tPat_Falloon\n55.0\t25.8\t27\tSTL\tIgor_Korolev\n55.0\t25.6\t26\tNYR\tJames_Patrick\n55.0\t24.8\t26\tBUF\tPetr_Svoboda\n55.0\t23.9\t25\tOTT\tMark_Lamb\n55.0\t23.2\t24\tTB\tMikael_Andersson\n55.0\t22.6\t23\tNYI\tScott_LaChance\n55.0\t22.1\t23\tEDM\tKevin_Todd\n55.0\t21.3\t22\tWSH\tBob_Carpenter\n55.0\t21.1\t22\tTOR\tBill_Berg\n55.0\t21.1\t22\tWPG\tSergei_Bautin\n55.0\t20.8\t22\tMTL\tBenoit_Brunet\n55.0\t20.6\t21\tNYI\tDavid_Volek\n55.0\t20.6\t21\tHFD\tMikael_Nylander\n55.0\t20.1\t21\tMIN\tBrent_Gilchrist\n55.0\t19.6\t20\tNYR\tPhil_Bourque\n55.0\t19.6\t20\tNYI\tRay_Ferraro\n55.0\t18.6\t19\tHFD\tYvon_Corriveau\n55.0\t18.2\t19\tEDM\tMartin_Gelinas\n55.0\t17.7\t19\tDET\tJim_Hiller\n55.0\t17.6\t18\tNYI\tDarius_Kasparaitis\n55.0\t17.5\t18\tPHI\tAndrei_Lomakin\n55.0\t17.2\t18\tBUF\tDonald_Audette\n55.0\t15.5\t16\tTB\tRoman_Hamrlik\n55.0\t15.1\t16\tSJ\tMark_Pederson\n55.0\t14.2\t15\tPIT\tMartin_Straka\n55.0\t12.4\t13\tNJ\tJanne_Ojanen\n55.0\t12.4\t13\tOTT\tTomas_Jelinek\n55.0\t11.5\t12\tCHI\tJoe_Murphy\n55.0\t10.8\t11\tNYR\tPeter_Andersson\n55.0\t10.6\t11\tTB\tSteve_Kasper\n55.0\t10.5\t11\tBOS\tCam_Neely\n55.0\t9.5\t10\tMIN\tBobby_Smith\n55.0\t9.5\t10\tSJ\tRay_Whitney\n55.0\t8.8\t9\tHFD\tRobert_Petrovicky\n55.0\t8.6\t9\tBUF\tViktor_Gordijuk\n55.0\t7.7\t8\tQUE\tMikhail_Tatarinov\n55.0\t7.7\t8\tTOR\tJoe_Sacco\n55.0\t7.6\t8\tSJ\tPeter_Ahola\n55.0\t6.7\t7\tCHI\tRob_Brown\n55.0\t6.7\t7\tBOS\tGlen_Murray\n55.0\t5.9\t6\tHFD\tTim_Kerr\n55.0\t4.9\t5\tWSH\tReggie_Savage\n55.0\t4.8\t5\tSTL\tVitali_Prokhorov\n55.0\t4.8\t5\tLA\tRobert_Lang\n55.0\t4.8\t5\tEDM\tShaun_Van_Allen\n55.0\t3.9\t4\tBOS\tJozef_Stumpel\n55.0\t3.9\t4\tMIN\tDan_Quinn\n55.0\t3.8\t4\tPIT\tBryan_Fogarty\n55.0\t3.7\t4\tDET\tViacheslav_Kozlov\n55.0\t2.9\t3\tTB\tStan_Drulia\n55.0\t2.9\t3\tMIN\tBrian_Propp\n55.0\t2.9\t3\tMTL\tOlav_Petrov\n55.0\t2.0\t2\tWSH\tJason_Woolley\n55.0\t1.9\t2\tNJ\tClaude_Vilgrain\n55.0\t0.0\t0\tVAN\tIgor_Larionov\n55.0\t0.0\t0\tTB\tBrent_Gretzky\n55.0\t0.0\t0\tOTT\tAlexei_Yashin\n55.0\t0.0\t0\tQUE\tPeter_Forsberg\n55.0\t0.0\t0\tEDM\tDean_McAmmond\n55.0\t0.0\t0\tWSH\tBrian_Sakic\n55.0\t0.0\t0\tWSH\tRandy_Burridge\n55.0\t0.0\t0\tMTL\tPatrick_Kjellberg\n55.0\t0.0\t0\tCGY\tCory_Stillman\n55.0\t0.0\t0\tCHI\tSergei_Krivokrasov\n55.0\t0.0\t0\tBUF\tJason_Dawe\n-- \nAndrew Scott | andrew@idacom.hp.com\nHP IDACOM Telecom Operation | (403) 462-0666 ext. 253", " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\n\nWhat kind of ranking system is used?\n", "\nClemens is going on his normal four days' rest (last pitched Saturday). \nHesketh only pitched one inning yesterday afternoon, his first outing\nsince an aborted 1-1/3 inning start 6 days before, so he should be plenty\nrested to go in his expected turn this Saturday, as the 5th starter. Not\nthat this is a good thing, of course. I'd like to see a well-managed\nfour-man rotation with this team... \n\n---\nGlenn Waugaman\nDigital Equipment Corporation\nLittleton, MA\ng_waugaman@nac.enet.dec.com", "\n\n\n\n\nMaybe I can help you. He's a major league coach with the Rockies.\nSo above prediction is doubly wrong.\n\nMy prediction: The Red Sox-Cubs Series and Vikings-Broncos SuperBore will\noccur at the end of the world.\n\nAnd one Rockie will finish in the top 10 of an offensive catagory this \nyear.\n\nAnd no Rockie starter will have an ERA below 3.50.\n\nAnd the Rangers fade will not begin until...August. They'll give way\nto the Angels. But still challenge to the end.\n\nReally. Not making any of this up. If I am, may God strike me down *ZZZZZZT*\n\n", "+>\n+>\tRecently, I heard the Red Sox on WROL a Spanish-speaking radio station.\n+>I thought it was so unreal. The Red Sox in Spanish? Anyway, I want to find\n+>out how widespread this is? Being a NY native, I know the scMets are on in\n+>Spanish but not the Yankmes. I wuold think that LA,SD,Texas and Fla are on\n+>in Spanish. Are there any Spanish-speaking networks or is this a local\n\nThe braves day games are broadcast is Spanish on a station called \"La\nFavorita\". (the station has a daytime liscence only).", "\nYah. So?\n\n\nHe certainly didn't earn his last one. *HOW* many games did he blow\nin the World Series? All of the ones he started?\n\n\nOh, yes. Definitely. Therefore Morris is better than Clemens.\n\nDon't give me that shit. If Boston had Alomar, Olerud, Henke, and\nWard while Toronto had Rivera, Jack Clark, Jeff Reardon, things would\nhave looked a little different last fall. Give credit where credit is\ndue. This lavishing of praise on Morris makes me sick.\n\n\nI'm willing to bet they don't finish sixth. I'm also willing to bet\nthey don't finish first. And if you give me 3-2 odds, I'm willing to\nbet that they finish ahead of the Blue Jays.", "\nIt would help if his OBP were higher than his batting average. Yes, the\nApril 12 USA Today lists Le Grand Chapeau as having a .422 batting average\nand a .413 OBP. That's on 19-for-45 hitting with 0 (zip, nil, nada) walks.\nThe reason a lot of us are down on Galarraga is that he's has a long history\nof showing that this is nowhere near his real level of ability (except for\ndrawing walks). If he hit .400 for, say, even 250 AB's I'd be convinced that\nthere was a real change in his ability. If he did it with an OBP>\n} >>>Has Jack lost a bit of his edge? What is the worst start Jack Morris has had?\n} >>\n} >>Uh, Jack lost his edge about 5 years ago, and has had only one above\n} >>average year in the last 5.\n} >\n} >Again goes to prove that it is better to be good than lucky. You can\n} >count on good tomorrow. Lucky seems to be prone to bad starts (and a\n} >bad finish last year :-).\n} >\n} >(Yes, I am enjoying every last run he gives up. Who was it who said\n} >Morris was a better signing than Viola?)\n} \n} Hey Valentine, I don't see Boston with any world series rings on their\n} fingers.\n\noooooo. cheap shot. :^)\n\n} Damn, Morris now has three and probably the Hall of Fame in his \n} future.\n\nwho cares? he had two of them before he came to Toronto; and if the\nJays had signed Viola instead of Morris, it would have been Frank who\nwon 20 and got the ring. and he would be on his way to 20 this year, too.\n\n} Therefore, I would have to say Toronto easily made the best \n} signing.\n\nyour logic is curious, and spurious.\n\nthere is no reason to believe that Viola wouldn't have won as many games\nhad *he* signed with Toronto. when you compare their stupid W-L records,\nbe sure to compare their team's offensive averages too.\n\n\nnow, looking at anything like the Morris-Viola sweepstakes a year later\nis basically hindsight. but there were plenty of reasons why it\nshould have been apparent that Viola was the better pitcher, based\non previous recent years and also based on age (Frank is almost 5\nyears younger! how many knew that?). people got caught up in the '91\nWorld Series, and then on Morris' 21 wins last year. wins are the stupidest,\nmost misleading statistic in baseball, far worse than RBI or R. that he\nwon 21 just means that the Jays got him a lot of runs.\n\nthe only really valid retort to Valentine is: weren't the Red Sox trying\nto get Morris too? oh, sure, they *said* Viola was their first choice\nafterwards, but what should we have expected they would say?\n\n} And don't tell me Boston will win this year. They won't \n} even be in the top 4 in the division, more like 6th.\n\nif this is true, it won't be for lack of contribution by Viola, so who cares?", "\n\n Gerald, look at what happened to the Stars; they are off to Dallas.\n\n\n\nGerald, the Alberta election is slated fou 7 June, unless something RE?ALLY goes \nwrong this time!! Pocklington could end up being THE embarassment of Klein\nif he goes ahead with his 'ultimatum'.\n\n\n\nGerald, people still have an axe to grind with this guy. I CANNOT see him staying for long.\n\n\nBut the people in Edmonton won't budge, trust me on this one.\n\n\nNorthlands won't budge ccording to one of the board members, Bruce Campbell.\n\n\nI haven't heard anything, BUT attendance at the Coliseum was the lowest this \nyear. HINT!!HINT!! Remeber what I said about a personal vendetta?\n\n\nGerald, don't blame Sather. This battle between the peole and Pocklington\nstarted in 1986 and got WORST when Pocklington sold Gretzky. \n\nThere were days when you can shake the hand of Pocklington when he was\nrespectalbe( I use to do so in 1982 - 1983 season) , but those days are GOE!!\n\n\nBTW, when following up, please delete name of posting writer.", "\n\n\tThis is the crux of the argument (to me at least). Both the\nSDCN and the non-SDCN camps seem to agree on the fact that a catcher's\ndefense is basically nonmeasurable at present. You can talk about how\nimportant calling a game is, or framing the pitches, or blocking balls\nin the dirt. But there is little or no way to tell exactly how various\ncatcher's rank in \"defense\". \n\n\tLooking at Lopez specifically; is there any reason to suspect\nthat he is a bad defensive catcher other then the fact that the Braves\n(or the media) has labeled him a bad defensive catcher? As far as I\ncan tell he doesn't have any particular problem in his mechanics\n(such as Sasser). He might be a little rough around the edges in blocking\nthe ball, or framing the pitch to get a good call but all he needs to\nclear that up is playing and practice time. I can't see how repetitions\nat AAA are any better then reps in the majors! \n\n\tAll we're left with is the calling the game aspect. Olsen and\nBerryhill at always given credit for calling good games and helping\nthe pitchering staff. But this is a reputation that is given to almost\nall veteran catchers. How is catching at AAA going to help Lopez learn\nthe major league pitching staff? The only way any catcher is going to\nlearn Tom Glavine's pitches is to catch Tom Glavine. Similarly, I wouldn't\nbe supprised if the pitcher's claimed to prefer pitching to Olsen over\npitching to Lopez because they are used to pitching to Olsen. But \ngiven time they will say they are comfortable with Lopez.\n\n\tNow, since Lopez can't learn how to handle the major league\npitcher's while he's in AAA and since he doesn't have any glaring\nproblem in his mechanics, what is he going to learn in AAA that he\ncan't learn just as well while in the majors? ", "There is a correction to the note I posted for today's update:\n\nThis is how it read:\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nOf course, last Saturday was April 17th. People who requested those scores\nshould receive them by Friday the 23rd. Thanks.\n\nJoe Hernandez\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nJoseph Hernandez | RAMS | | /.\\ ******* _|_|_ / | LAKERS\njtchern@ocf.Berkeley.EDU | KINGS | |__ | | DODGERS _|_|_ | | RAIDERS\njtcent@soda.Berkeley.EDU | ANGELS |____||_|_| ******* | | |___| CLIPPERS", "\n\nYep. And the Ks don't have to denote a slow game, either. Last night,\nSid Fernandez was mowing the Giants hitters down (14 Ks in 8 innings),\nyet the first 7 1/2 innings of the game were quite brisk.\n\nHe also threw 119 pitches, leading me to believe it isn't just the\nnumber of pitches that determines the length of a game, but the \nbehavior *between* pitches.\n", "\nI think that Grant Fuhr deserves more credit than that!\nWhile it's true that the entire Sabres team played very well, I\nstill believe that if it wasn't for Grant Fuhr, the series would\nnow be tied 2-2. He virtually stole games 1 and 3 for the Sabres.\nIn both of these games, Fuhr stood on his head to give the Sabres\nthe chance to win. Especially in game 3, Fuhr made a series of\nhuge stops in the third period when the score was tied 2-2. \nEven in game 2 when the Sabres won 4-0, the score seemed to\nindicate that the Sabres dominated. However, if it hadn't been\nfor Fuhr, the Sabres wouldn't have been up (2-0 I think it was)\nthrough the 2nd period and the Bruins wouldn't have had to open\nup the game (thereby allowing Mogilny to score the third goal on\na breakaway to salt away the game). There\nis no doubt in my mind that Fuhr was the critical factor in the\nvictory. \n\nIn my opinion, Neely, Oates and Juneau played as well as\nLaFontaine, Mogilny and Hawerchuk. The Sabres did get\nextraordinary efforts from Hannan, Sweeney, Wood, and Khmylev\n(compared to that of the Bruins checkers). However, the Bruins defense\n, IMO, played better than the Sabres defense (the Sabres have Ken Sutton\nplaying a regular shift afterall ;-)\nThe difference in the series was Fuhr, who outplayed Andy Moog. \n\nGary", "\n\n\nI'm in Edmonton, and while that's usually (or at least OFTEN) the case,\nhere we were \"treated\" to the actual ABC telecast of the Kings/Flames\ngame. I'm with whoever said it earlier - Don Witless (er, Whitman) is\na poor commentator, and not just for hockey. Normally, if the Oilers\nwere still playing (augh), I would turn off the sound and listen to \nthe radio broadcast to get decent play-by-play announcing.", "[more about the Messier-Samuelsson incident]\n I agree with Rick that Ulf's cross check wasn't illegal. It was the kind\n of check you see a dozen times during a game without being called. Slo-mos\n sometimes have a tendency to make things look worse than they really are.\n Besides, if Messier can't take the heat, he should stay out of the kitchen.\n\n Well Matt, Mattias Timmander hasn't been playing with the MoDo elite league\n team yet (just the MoDo junior team), so I predict he needs a few more years\n here before he can join the B's. I saw him play in the Swedish championship\n game for junior players this year, and he played very well, a physical game,\n but not the kind of rough stuff that Ulfie does (I suspect you would like to\n have a Ulf type-of-player on the B's team too? :)\n As for Mariusz Czerkawski, he has had a *great* season for Hammarby in\n division 1. He scored -if I remember correctly- 93 points this season,\n and then we have to keep in mind that a 50+ point season in Sweden is\n considered *very good* due to the limited number of games. Mariusz is\n Djurgarden property (he was just on loan to Hammarby), so he will play\n in Elitserien next season, unless the B's can get him of course.\n I would say that Mariusz has to be one of the most exciting player to\n watch in Swedish hockey this season.\n\n Staffan", "Does anybody have a GIF of the Tiger Stadium seating chart? Thanks!\n-- \n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nBrian Curran Mead Data Central brian@meaddata.com ", ": >Every single piece of evidence we can find points to Major League Baseball\n: >being 50% offense, 50% defense. A run scored is just as important as a run\n: >prevented. \n: >\n: This certainly passes the \"common sense test\" for me, but is there any\n: statistical evidence to say what percent of defense is pitching and what\n: percent is fielding? I'd really like to know. BTW, Sherri, thanks for \n: the DA data I find it fascinating.\n\nOne of the chapters in Palmer and Thorn's 'Hidden Game' is titled\n'Pitching is 44% of Baseball,' implying that fielding is 6%. How do\nthey determine that? Beats me -- it's been a long, long time since I\nread it.\n\nOne also has to separate offense into batting and baserunning, with the\nsplit probably somewhere around 49.5% and 0.5%.\n--", "o any of you experts want to analyze Ron Gant?\nIs his early season slump because he is still swinging his bat the way\nhe was last year (trying to hit to all fields, etc.) or has he changed his\nswing back to the \"old\" Gant and is just in a small early season slump.\n\nIs his spot int he lineup even secure, especially the way he has\nbeen hitting?\n \n--\nmsilverm@nyx.cs.du.edu\t\t\t\tGO CUBS!!!", "\n\nGretzky, Lemieux, Gilmour etc do not play the role of checking centreman.\nThey play an offensive role as opposed to a defensive one. If they\nwere used as defensive centres it would be a waste of their offensive\nabilities. \n\nWhen you compare Gretzky et al to Jarvis, Gainey etc you are comparing \napples and oranges. It is like me telling you that Felix Potvin isn't \nvery good because a team would be better if the had Lemieux instead of\nhim. Sure Lemieux is a better player, but he is a different type of\nplayer. For a team to be successful, they need to have all types of\nplayers- this includes defensive forwards.\n\nWhen compared with other defensive forwards, Bob Gainey is the greatest\ndefensive forward ever. He is the player who's talents best suited being\na defensive forward- who completely dominated the game when he played.\n\nMaybe if a more talented player such as Gretzky had decided to waste his\noffensive talents and play defensively, he could have been a better\ndefensive forward, but he wasn't.\n\nBob Gainey is the best defensive forward that has ever played hockey.", "-=> Quoting The Logistician to All <=-\n\n \n\n TL> I am in need of all of the players wearing #77 in the NHL. I know now\n TL> only of one, Ray Borque for the Bruins. Any help would be greatly\n TL> appreciated. \n TL> Thanx.\n\n\n\n Hi there Logistician, is not Paul Coffey wearing\n # 77 for the Detroit Red Wings?\n That is the only other one (besides Borque) that I can think of\n hope it helps.\n\n\n Steve\n\n\n\n\n", "Dateline Tue, 20/Apr93 03:38.\nIn , Antonio Pera of icop@csa.bu.edu wrote to All at 1:133/411,\n\n AP> Recently, I heard the Red Sox on WROL a \n AP> Spanish-speaking radio station. I thought it was so \n AP> unreal. The Red Sox in Spanish? Anyway, I want to find\n AP> out how widespread this is? Being a NY native, I know \n AP> the scMets are on in Spanish but not the Yankmes. I \n AP> wuold think that LA,SD,Texas and Fla are on in Spanish. \n AP> Are there any Spanish-speaking networks or is this a \n AP> local\n\n For the last couple of years, the Braves have been fostering a program to reach to the Latin American audience. This has included licensing Spanish fan magazines, encouraging Spanish co-broadcasts, and marketing programs directed at the Latin American community. One of the biggest heros to the Latin American audience has been Francisco Cabrerra (a fact of which he was slightly embarrassed!). \n\nOne funny story is that during Spring Training, the Braves played a game in Mexico. This game was broadcast back to Atlanta in Spanish. It took the broadcasters a few innings to get a rythm going because they had to keep changing their location. Seems it took a while to find a place where they could get a clear signal on their cellular phones through which they were calling the game!\n\n David Deitch, (GIS) Atlanta\n\n\n", "2nd uptade:\n\nHere are the standings for the poll after 29 votes: 5 points for 1st, 4 for 2nd,... 1 point for 5th: \n\nEA/ NHLPA game\n\n1. DET 78\n2. CHI 67 \n3. VAN 60\n4. NY 59\n5. MTL 54\n6. PIT 23\n7. WAS 20\n8. BOS 17\n9..QUE 9 \n10.CAL 8\n11.ASW 7\n12.LA 5\n TOR 5\n14.ASE 4\n WIN 4\n16.BUF 3\n PHI 3\n18.SJ 2\n19.MIN 1\n OTW 1\n Atlanta to win Turner Cup 1 (not in the game, but 1 person vote)\n\n\nContinue to send your votes in this format (until April 20th, approximately)\n------------------------------------------------\n1.\n2.\n3.\n4.\n5.\n------------------------------------------------\n", "\nWIP is the REAL home of the Eagles. Merril Reese and the Birds on\nFM radio...what a joke.\n\nA \"classic rock\" station at that! Whats the sports world coming to?\n\n \n", "\nIf life were so simple! Savard has not played in three of the last \nfour games and they are still playing like crap. Montreal's problems\nrun deeper than Savard (and Mouton) unfortunately; I hope they can\nget their act together before the playoffs.\n\nThe line-up in their game coming up against PittsburgH is said to be\nthe one they're likely to use for the playoffs. Let's hope they can\nforget about the nice weather we're having and play hockey.", "\n\nUnfortunately, Roger is now over at r.s.baseball spewing his expertise\n(i.e. being a dickhead). I guess he is afraid of posting anything\nhere, because he knows what to expect.", "I wonder how many more years it will take Gretz to beat this one? ;-)", "Does anyone have a list of Vegas odds for teams making\nthe World Series?\n\nI'd appreciate a mailing. Thanks,", "The problem with your nihilistic approach, Roger, is that it takes all the\nsense out of the game. By your line of reasoning, if a guy hits into a\ndouble play with one out and the bases loaded, there's no point in saying\nthat that was a bad thing to do (if his team won anyway) or speculating\non what might have happened if things had gone otherwise, so the double\nplay is merely an event that happened in the course of a game that was\neventually won or lost for unknown reasons. After all, any speculation\ninvolves constructing a fantasy about what would have happened but didn't.\n\nRoger, do you ever worry that the next pencil you drop will fall to the\nceiling instead? Or are you willing to consider empirical evidence?\n\nTeams go to the post-season when they win more games than anybody else\nin their division. If they don't make the post-season, they don't win the\nSeries. Will you agree that winning a division is a useful intermediate\ngoal in ring-collecting?\n\nIf so, you must agree that winning games is a useful intermediate goal\ntowards winning the division, and our disagreements come when we consider\nhow to win games.\n\nIn your viewpoint as expressed, winning games happens for reasons that\ncannot be analyzed. While many of us are thinking things like \"Base-\nrunners are good, outs are bad, and therefore walks are better than\ndouble plays with the bases loaded\", you are thinking things like\n\"It's a team game, so perhaps the double play will cause some mysterious\nteam dynamics that will cause the team to win today\".\n\nThe result is that it becomes impossible to say *anything* about individual\nplayers. Perhaps Atlanta would have won the Series with me playing left\nfield. After all, perhaps in some way my knowledge and personality would\nhave helped the team more than my complete lack of skill would have hurt\nit. Therefore, I could be an extremely valuable player. Did Dave Winfield\nhave anything to do with the Jays' victory? Probably, but how do you know?\nIf you replace him with Andres Galarraga, perhaps the Jays would have won,\nperhaps they would have lost, perhaps they would have defected to Alpha\nCentauri (bearing in mind that the flying saucers would not have landed\nin mid-season had Winfield been DHing for Toronto).\n\nWas Babe Ruth a good player? He played on some WS-winning teams, but did\nhe have anything to do with their success?\n\nIt is generally accepted that Ernie Banks was a good baseball player, and\nJarvis Brown and Dan Schatzeder weren't. It seems to me that anybody who\nwould deny this needs to provide the proof.\n\nNow, we have observed things about baseball over the years, both empirically\nand by looking at the rulebook. It is necessary to score more runs than\none's opponent to win the game, so it would seem important to score runs\nand to prevent one's opponent from scoring. Runs are scored while a team\nis batting, and an inning ends after the third out, so it would seem that\nmaking outs is bad while hitting home runs is good. Players have tendencies\nto hit or pitch at certain levels, and these are usually somewhat consistent\nfrom year to year.\n\nWe do use these statistics to predict winners, and so do you. To make\nsome flat predictions: Barry Bonds will have a higher OBP+SLG than\nGene Larkin this year. The Braves will finish ahead of the Rockies\nin the standings. The Tigers will score more runs than the Royals, but\nwill also give up more. I would be astonished if any of these turned\nout to be false, and, I suspect, so would you. As a matter of fact, I\nam pretty sure I can predict all the division winners this year, given\n3-4 guesses per division, and this is certainly better than random\nchance (and almost statistically significant).\n\nIf you will admit that the Rockies and Mariners are unlikely to meet in\nthe World Series, you must admit that there is some sort of way to measure\nlikelihoods, however fuzzy.\nSo how about \"real life\"? Person A robs a service station with two people\nin it, using a .38 automatic pistol, gets $42, and is convicted and sentenced\nfor three years. Person B, with a similar criminal record, robs a service\nstation with two people in it, using a .38 revolver, gets $42, and is\nconvicted. Since they used two different types of handgun, are comparisons\ntotally meaningless?\n\nSay you drop a pencil to see if the gravity still works (my cats are always\ntesting this - they don't trust me to pay the gravity bill on time). You\nhave never dropped a pencil at that exact time of the century before, so\nall previous evidence is meaningless? Or would you be surprised if it flew\nout the window instead of hitting the desk?", "\nand bill james is not? yeah. sure. do you own \"the bill james players\nrating book\"?", "\n\n\nMy favorite was the Barry Foote homer that bounced on Waveland and through\na second floor window across the street. Second though, would be the Kong\ndrive that was last seen bouncing down the street that dead ends to the \npark at Waveland.", " I laugh at you now, and I will laugh at you again, equally publicly,\nwhen the Jays finish third due to the severe depletion of their talent.\nI think Bill James put it best (about Sparky Anderson, _Abstract_ 1983):\n\n\"There are a million guys in this country with great attitudes, but there\nare only about five hundred who can play a major league brand of baseball;\nwhich are you going to take?\"", "\nOnly problem is that Zombo was traded to St. Louis last year for goalie\nVincent Riendeau.\n\nI think that while Chevy is not among the elite class of goalies, he is\nadequate given the offensive firepower of the Wings.", "\n\nI was in fact going to suggest that Roger take his way of discussion over\nto r.s.football.pro. There this kind of hormone-only reasoning is the\nstandard. Being he canadian, and hockey what it is, I would have suggested\nthat r.s.h would work too. It is important in a thread that everyone\ninvolved use the same body part to produce a post (brain being the organ\nof choice here).", "Way back in the early years (~50's) it took 8 wins to garner the Stanley Cup. \nSoooooo, a couple of local fish mongers (local to the Joe Louis Arena, that is)\nstarted the tradition of throwing an octopi onto the ice with every win. After\neach victory, one leg would be severed before the octopus found its way to the\nice. (They are dead by the way.) It was a brilliant marketing strategy to\nshore up the demand for one of their least popular products.\n\nHope this helps.", "There was a discussion about how real fans were ones who respect their teams\nno matter ow bad they are. That's bullshit. Anyone who would follow the\nPens or the Pirates in parts of the early eighties on a devoted basis are\nlosers. It's OK to follow and be concerned about your home team. But\nto give them respect even when it is clear the management and the players suck\nshould not be required of a true fan.A true fan would follow the team in\ntroubled times to the extent that they could discuss how to improve the team.\n\nWhen I visit PIttsburgh, I'll refuse to go to a Pirates game since I think\nthe management has given PIttsburgh a team which could have been much better\neven if they couldn't sign Barry Bonds. Lert's say the Pens start doing to\ntheir own team what the Oilers have done this year and what the Whalers have\ndone in recent years, I would be hard pressed to show much enthusiasm for the\nteam. I'll still follow it and bitch about it. But I won't waste my\nmoney on mediocre teams.", "Mike Schmidt's 500th: Not only a milestone, but also a 9th inning game-\nwinner.\n -John\n", "\n\n\"Deeply rooted rivalry?\" Ahem, Jokerit have been around since 1967 and joined\nthe top flight only in the early '70s. Helsingfors IFK have been around since\n1897 but fans only started taking hockey seriously in the 1960s so I think\nyou're exagerating here.\n\n\nThat's a rather bold claim, in the light of how successful the Canadian &\nAmerican Olympic teams have been . . . and they've had to play according to our\nset of rules and on international ice. The 1992 Olympic teams contained about\nas much talent as your average expansion team. Canada had Eric Lindros, Sean\nBurke, Joe Juneau and Chris Kontos. Another four or five have been deep subs in\nthe NHL. As for the Yanks, Keith Tkachuk, Scott Lachance, Bret Hedican, Shawn \nMcEachern, Steve Heintze, Ted Donato, Joe Sacco and Bill Guerin have been \n3rd/4th line players in the NHL, while Robb Stauber has done well for the \nKings in goal. Nothing more. In fact, I'm sure that an All-Star team assembled\nfrom the best Finnish League teams would do no better in the NHL than Hartford \nor Tampa Bay currently are doing.\n---\nBut what happens if _all_ top-class Finnish & Swedish players gradually end up\nwith Helsinki & Stockholm as the North American-based ones gradually retire and\nno Canadian/American team is allowed to draft new players from Scandinavia? \nHere is what THE HOCKEY NEWS scouts think of our NHL-based players:\n\n(28-30=superstar)\n(23-27=star)\n(18-22=NHL regular+)\n(13-17=NHL regular)\n( 8-12=role player)\n\nFINLAND: \n\nD-Jyrki Lumme.......20\nD-Teppo Numminen....20\nD-Peter Ahola.......13\n\nC-Jari Kurri........25\nC-Christian Ruuttu..16\n\nR-Teemu Selanne.....27\n\nL-Esa Tikkanen......20\n(Obviously, Selanne's ratings would be higher today than they were in January)\n\nSWEDEN:\nD-Ulf Samuelsson....21\nD-Fredrik Olausson..20\nD-Niklas Lidstrom...18\nD-Calle Johansson...18\nD-Kjell Samuelsson..17\nD-Tommy Sjodin......13\nD-Tommy Albelin......7\n\nC-Mats Sundin.......26\nC-Thomas Steen......18\n\nR-Thomas Sandstrom..22\nR-Ulf Dahlen........18\nR-Michael Nylander..13\n\nL-Per-Erik Eklund...18\nL-Johan Garpenlov...16\nL-Mikael Andersson..15\nL-Jan Erixon........14\n\nThis would be interesting. Clearly, Finland's top five players (Winnipeg's\nSelanne & Numminen, Vancouver's Lumme, Los Angeles' Jari Kurri and New York's\nTikkanen) are right up there with any five-man unit Pittsburgh & co. have. But\nI have my doubts about the home-based Finnish players - the national team did\nwell in the Canada Cup and World Championships largely due to the efforts of\nMarkus Ketterer (the goalie), 3-4 or the players listed above and luck. There's\npresumably a lot of decent players in Finland that wouldn't be superstars at\nthe highest level but still valuable role players, however. My guess would be\nthat the Finnish Canada Cup team would be a .500 team in the NHL.\n---\nSweden is easier to judge because they have more players in North America.\nTheir points total (16 players) is 274 - seven more than Ottawa's 22 top\nplayers combined! If we estimate there are six more NHL regulars back home in \nSweden, an all-Swedish team would assemble about 350-360 skill points.\nDeducting some points from Pittsburgh, NY Rangers and other teams that rely on\nSwedish players, the Swedish team would finish in sixth place - about as high\nas Boston, Vancouver, Calgary and Montreal on paper! So, the \"dynasty\" talk\nisn't completely unfounded here. An all-Finnish/all-Swedish team might have an\nadvantage because the players would be playing at home half of the time,\nwon't have to adapt to a foreign country and a foreign language, and presumably\nplay the wide-open European variant of hockey rather than have to learn the\nNorth American checking game. However, if free agency becomes a factor the top \nScandinavian players still might end up playing for large-market teams after a \ncouple of years the same way Edmonton's \"dynasty\" crumbled in the late '80s. \nSome fringe players likely will be drafted by other NHL teams as having an \nexclusive talent pool might be a bit unfair after all. I'd settle for a \ncompromise, prohibit all European teams from signing a North American during \nthe first two rounds but allow them to keep their top two players. After this, \nthe amateur draft should be open to anyone. \n", "\nIt was NOT Krupp's skate. Krupp was defending against Steve Tuttle,\nof the Blues. They both sort of tripped and fell toward Malarchuk,\nand Tuttle's skate came perilously close to cutting (but actually just\nmissed) the jugular. Malarchuk immediately fell to the ice, hands at\nhis neck, blood on the ice.\n\nHe'd been suffering from it for over a decade. He just wasn't\ndiagnosed for it until he didn't sleep for ten days and decided to\nhave some alcohol to help him sleep. Unfortunately, he'd just been\nput on ulcer medicine a few days earlier. It's amazing he lasted as\nlong as he did. OCD sufferers stop distinguishing the line between\nreality and imagination, or fail to accept that something they've\nchecked is OK now. For example, an OCD sufferrer can wash his hands\nover and over and still think they're dirty. He might check the oven\nten times to be sure it's turned off. He might see a movie about\nsomething and automatically assume the situation is the same for his\nown life. Malarchuk has dramatically decreased the medicine he takes,\nbut still needs it. He went off it this past winter and had a bad OCD\nepisode and I think was in the hospital for a couple days. (He felt\nit slowed his reflexes, so he tried to go without). In any event, he\nis alive and well and living in San Diego, while playing with the\nGulls (IHL). \n\n\nAnd Tuttle is no longer with the Blues, but I don't know where he is.\nPossibly in the IHL, but you'd best ask a Blues fan.\n", "I would e-mail this to you, but my mailserver doesn't recognize you or\nsomething.\n\nAnyway, the worst pitcher on the Yanks. If you mean currently on the team,\nthen I have to go with Scott \"I'm a schizophrenic...No, I'm NOT!\"\nKamienicki. Sure, occasionally the guy can pitch well for 5 or 6 innings,\nbut then he starts to go insane. A sure sign that he's losing his stuff\n(and his mind) is when he starts to stalk around the mound between batters\nand yell at himself.\n\nThe worst all-time Yanks pitcher? Gotta go with Ed \"New York? I have to\npitch in [gulp] New York?\" Whitson. 'Nuff said!\n\n\n--I'm outta here like Vladimir!\n-Alan Sepinwall XVIII", "I'm the keeper of the stats for a family hockey pool and I'm looking\nfor daily/weekly email servers for playoff stats. I've connected with\nthe servers at J.Militzok@skidmore.EDU and wilson@cs.ucf.edu. I'm\nstill sorting these two out.\n\nAre there others? Email please as my site doesn't get this group.\n\nThanks.\n\nRick", "Actually, there can be any number of players on a side. You can\nhave a 25-man roster, a 40-man roster, etc....\n\nRyan Robbins\nPenobscot Hall\nUniversity of Maine", "\n\tI loved the ABC coverage. The production was excellent. The appearance\nwas excellent. It had a sleek modern look. This was the first time I heard\nThorne & Clement & I thought they were great. My only request is to leave\nAl Micheals out of this. He annoys me. \n\tI'm hoping this leads to a regular-season contract. My guess would\nbe is that it will be roughly a weekly game from Feb.-April and then the \nplayoffs. I envy you Canadians with your TSN & CBC. Maybe I'll get a dish\nto pick up Canadian TV. How much are those things, BTW?\n", " It's the \"opening-game effect\" maybe. Pros arrive late, nervousness for\n rookie WC players, and problems to get the lines clicking may make things\n hard to get it going against these \"worse\" nations.\n I'd guess that the better team you face in the opening game, the better\n it is, since the chances of an upset are greater then.\n\n Some other reasons why the \"worse\" teams are so tough to beat was presented\n by Hans \"Virus\" Lindberg (former coach in Switzerland).\n\n 1) The \"worse\" teams (referring to France, Switzerland, Austria, Italy etc)\n have now usually world class goalies.\n\n 2) Their defensive play have become much more disciplined, they take much\n less unnecessary penalties.\n\n 3) They use four lines which makes it harder to make them \"run out of gas.\"\n\n 4) The ice quality in the German WC rinks is poor.\n\n Another weird thing was that the Czechs played entertaining hockey..\n err.. just kidding, David.\n\n Alex? That's a new name for me ;)\n\n OK, I forgot the Czech roster at home yesterday, but now I have it.\n I don't know the teams for all players, so I would appreciate if\n you guys could fill in the blanks for me (especially I think some\n of these players play in Finland).\n\n The Czech Republic\n ------------------\n\n Goaltenders:\t 1. Petr Briza\t\t(Finland somewhere, right?)\n\t\t 2. Roman Turek\t\tMotor C. Budejovice\n\n Defense:\t 3. Leo Gudas\t\t?\n\t\t 4. Milos Holan\t\tTJ Vitkovice\n\t\t 5. Drahomir Kadlec\t?\n\t\t 6. Bedrich Scerban\tBrynas, Sweden\n\t\t 7. Antonin Stavjana\tHV 71, Sweden\n\t\t 8. Miroslav Horava\tMoDo, Sweden\n\t\t 9. Ales Flasar\t\tTJ Vitkovice\n\t\n Forwards:\t10. Petr Rosol\t\t?\n\t\t12. Kamil Kastak\tHV 71, Sweden\n\t\t13. Richard Zemlicka\t?\n\t\t14. Jiri Kucera\t\t?\n\t\t16. Jan Caloun\t\tHC Litvinov\n\t\t18. Petr Hrbek\t\t?\n\t\t19. Tomas Kapusta\t?\n\t\t20. Otakar Janecky\t(Finland?)\n\t\t21. Roman Horak\t\tMotor C. Budejovice\n\t\t22. Martin Hostak\tMoDo, Sweden\n\t\t24. Radek Toupal\t?\n\t\t26. Jiri Dolezal\t?\n\n\n Staffan", "I watched the game Germany-Czechs in WC today...and i was astonished about\nthe behaviour of the German audience!\nThe German team got a few penalties in the last period and the crowd went\ngrazy! They threw coins, extra pucks and other trash into the rink...is\nthat stupid or what?? I guess the Canadian referee (one of the\nIsostar-bros ;) gave the German team a penalty for that, but it didn't help\nmuch.\nI guess the Germans just are proud over their Nazi-Kill-'em-All-Everyone-\nBut-Us-Germans-Sucks attitude...they just seem to have that kind of attitude\nin every possible sport (remember the European champs in Stockholm in soccer)\nIt really pisses me off!\nI do not mean that every single German has this attitude that sucks, but \nmost of them seem to do...", "\n\n ...\n\n\nWhy do you say this? As of now, the Pens and Bruins have played the\nsame number of games, and given up the same number of goals. They are\ntied for the third and fourth best defenses in the league, behind\nChicago first and Toronto second. The Pens' weak spot is defense? Only\nby comparison to their offense, which is second in the league to\nDetroit. But the Pens are no weaker on defense and goaltending than the\nBruins are; that is, they are both very strong.\n\n", "\nThis is true, but the main thing the commish i.e. Selig needs to do\nis to suspend Bobby Cox. You *cannot* allow a team to come out at\nthe ump as the Braves did. I usually rip umps, but in this case,\nthe players were dead wrong. Cox should go for 5 games. If I\nhad ever umped a game where that happened, I'd have ejected every\nplayer that came out. Only Cox and Gant would have been spared, and\nthen Cox would have gone in the ensuing argument.", "There was an article on Jewish major leaguers in a recent issue of \"Elysian \nFields\", what used to be the \"Minnesota Review of Baseball\". As I recall, \nit had an amazing amount of research, with a long list of players and a \nlarge bibliography.", "I was wondering if any Star Trek TNG fans in this newsgroup knew of a\npossible relationship between the Bruins' players Douris & Moog and the\nKlingon names Duras and Worf (Son of Moog). I suppose it's a coincidence.\n\nJust curious,", ": Detroit's going to beat Toronto in 6 or LESS!!!\n: \n: Granted, Gilmour should get the Hart Trophy, NOT Lemieux... Just\n: Look at what Gilmour did for Toronto. When you think of Toronto,\n: who comes to mind, Gilmour, Andreychuk, Potvin...ah...did I mentio\n: n Gilmour?\n: \n\nWhen you think of the NHL, who comes to mind? Gilmour? Gretzky? Mario?\n.. ah... did I mention Mario? If you said Gretzky, you haven't really\nbeen following along, have you. If you said Gilmour, you are a true\nMaynard. \n\nI don't even think the selection of the HArt deserves serious discussion on\nthis group. It is a no-brainer.", "\n\n\nHmmmmmm. I think I'll let everyone make there own comment on this one.\n\n\n\n\nNeilson and Smith are bad. Kovalev is magical.\n", "Hi, baseball fans! So what do you say? Don't you think he deserves it?\nI\n \nmean, heck, if Dave Winfield (ho-hum) is seriously being considered for it,\nas\n\nis Lee Smith (ha), then why don't we give Dave Kingman a chance? Or Darrell\n\nEvans! Yeah, yeah! After the Hall of Fame takes in them, it can take in\nEddie\n\nMurray and Jeff Reardon.\n\n Well, in any case, I am sick and tired (mostly sick) of everybody\ngiving\n\nHall of Fame consideration to players that are by today's standards,\nmarginal.\n\nHonestly, Ozzie Smith and Robin Yount don't belong there. They're both\n\nshortstops that just hung around for a long time. Big deal.\n\n Let's be a little more selective, huh? Stop handing out these honors\nso\n\nliberally. Save them for the guys who really deserve it. Face it, if\nsomething\n\nisn't done, there will be little prestige in the Hall of Fame anymore. When\n\ncertain individuals believe that Steve Garvey or Jack Morris are potential\n\ncandidates, the absurdity is apparent. Gee, can these guys even compare to\n\nthe more likely future Hall of Famers like Kirby Puckett or Nolan Ryan?\n", " \n\nThe worst thing is that this is exactly what I did last year. I had the Rangers\non MSG, and the two different games on SCNY and SCA on at the same time. Yes,\nI'd rather have SC cover it, just for the amount of coverage.\n\n \n\nI think Thorne earns his money. The best part is that he is the same way when \nhe is earning his $$ from SportsChannel as the Devils announcer (i.e.,\nunbiased). He goes orgasmic for goals, despite which team scores, and even more \nexcited (if possible) for great saves. He did a good job of explaining certain \nthings to non-hockey types without offending those of us who follow the sport\n(unlike NBC's clowns for the ASG).\n\n-JPC\n\n(Ob. Playoff-time flame-bait)\n\n Don't any of you Pittsburgh fans tell me how Mike Lang(e) is better. \n Maybe if he were a little spontaneous, rather than reading rehearsed\n lines of B.S having nothing to do with hockey he would be better.\n\n-- ", "\nDale Hawerchuk and Troy Murray were both captains of the Jets\nwhen they were traded. (Murray this year in mid-season, Hawerchuk\na few years ago in the off-season.)", "\nIt took three days to get to us, but I'll try anyway as I naturally\nhaven't seen the answer.\n\n\nSAFE. The correct call is \"Infield Fly, (batter out) if fair\". Runners\nmay advance at own risk. (Gotta tag up if caught, etc.) It is not a\nforce, and the pop was not caught, so regardless of whether the SS\ntags 3B or 2B (it wasn't clear, above), he hasn't got the runner out.\n\n\nOUT. See rule 6.05(L) APPROVED RULING. (Below). In this case, the\numpire has decided for whatever reason that the infield fly rule\ndoesn't apply. (Sounds like a bad call here, but that's not the\npoint). The batter is not out, so a force situation is created.\nTherefore, the runner is out. ( UNLESS, by rule 6.05(L) the ball is\ndead AND the batter is safe, then I guess the runners would advance\nunmolested. I can't really tell from 6.05(L) that the ball is dead in\nthis situation.)\n\n\nPertinent rules: 2.00 Definition of Infield Fly: \"When an Infield fly\nis called, runners may advance at their own risk. If on an infield fly\nrule, the infielder intentionally drops a fair ball, the ball remains\nin play despite the provisions of Rule 6.05(L). The Infield Fly rule\ntakes precedence.\"\n\n6.05(L) A batter is out when: an infielder intentionally drops a fair\nfly ball or line drive, with first, first and second, first and thrid,\nor first,second and third base occupied before two are out. The ball\nis dead and the runners or runners shall return to their original base\nor bases. APPROVED RULING: In this situation, the batter is not out if\nthe infielder permits the ball the drop untouched to the ground,\nexcept when the infield fly rule applies.\n", "Hi,\n\n\tI am looking for a round trip Madison/Chicago --> Milan (Italy)\n\tair ticket. Anybody who has a transferable ticket but will\n\tnot use it please contact me at beng@cae.wisc.edu. Open-jaw\n\tticket highly desired.\n\t\n\tThank you.\n", "\n\nSorry, but it is *virtually* impossible to win a division with \"no talent\"\nover 162 games.\n\nI would amend your definition to:\n\nunderdog: a team expected to lose, but which wins thanks to underestimated\n talent.", "\n\n\nWhen I see this happening to other players, I'll post a public apology to\nMr. Hirschbeck. Until then, I think this was a case of \"selective\nenforcement.\"\n-- \nDale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Baseball fanatic", "\nMaybe it's just me, but the combination of those *young* faces peeking out\nfrom under oversized aqua helmets screams \"Little League\" in every fibre of\nmy being...\n", "Once again, the Rockies bullpen fell apart. Andy Ashby pitched six (somewhat\nshaky) innings giving up just one run. Then game the dreaded relief. Three\npicthers combined to give up 3 runs (one each I believe) in the 7th inning\nand blew the save opportunity. (Final was 4-2 vs Expos).\n\nDespite their problems in the pen, I think the Rockies are a team that wont\nbe taken lightly. Going into today's game, the had the league's leading\nhitter and RBI man (Galarraga), two of the leaders in stolen bases (Young\nand Cole) and increasingly strong starting pitching.\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDavid Rex Wood -- davewood@cs.colorado.edu -- University of Colorado at Boulder", "I am looking for a source of American League baseball stats for\nindividual players in the same format as printed in newspapers, ie. I do\nnot want to provide a list of players and get back nice printed reports\nfor $35 a week.\n\nDoes anyone know of such statistics availability and an idea of the\ncost?", "\n\nI tend to agree that players are not hurt by early play in the big leagues.\nThe BRaves organization is a fertile ground to test this hypothesis, as they\nhad little talent on their roster for some time. Steve Avery, for example,\nwas rushed to the majors, and he fared very poorly during his initial campaign.\nHis subsequent pitching has not been affected by his 5+ ERA during his rookie\nyear. Bill James pointed out that it was relatively unusual to struggle so\nand then rebound.\n\nBob Horner was also rushed to the majors (out of Arizona State directly) had\ngood numbers immediately.\n\nI am not certain of the ages of people like Pete Smith, Craig McMurty, and\nDerek Lilliquist. The Braves pitching staffs were so bad when they came up\nthat they might have been rushed. Lilliquist and Smith struggled, but it\ndidn't hurt PS and DL may have been overhyped. I seem to recall CM pitching\nwell initially, though I don't have stats handy.", "Toronto 1 1 1--3\nDetroit 1 4 1--6\nFirst period\n 1, Detroit, Yzerman 1 (Gallant, Ciccarelli) 4:48.\n 2, Toronto, Cullen 1 (Clark, Gill) 10:44.\nSecond period\n 3, Detroit, Sheppard 1 (Probert, Coffey) pp, 5:04.\n 4, Detroit, Burr 1 (Racine) sh, 6:42.\n 5, Detroit, Chiasson 1 (Coffey) pp,11:00.\n 6, Detroit, Howe 1 (Yzerman, Drake) 14:46.\n 7, Toronto, Gilmour 1 (Borschevsky, Ellett) pp, 19:59.\nThird period\n 8, Detroit, Racine 1 (Primeau, Drake) 5:10.\n 9, Toronto, Lefebvre 1 (Cullen, Pearson) 7:45.\n\nDetroit: 6 Power play: 6-2 Special goals: pp: 2 sh: 1 Total: 3\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nBurr 1 0 1\nChiasson 1 0 1\nCiccarelli 0 1 1\nCoffey 0 2 2\nDrake 0 2 2\nGallant 0 1 1\nHowe 1 0 1\nPrimeau 0 1 1\nProbert 0 1 1\nRacine 1 1 2\nSheppard 1 0 1\nYzerman 1 1 2\n\nToronto: 3 Power play: 5-1\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nBorschevsky 0 1 1\nClark 0 1 1\nCullen 1 1 2\nEllett 0 1 1\nGill 0 1 1\nGilmour 1 0 1\nLefebvre 1 0 1\nPearson 0 1 1\n\n-----------------------------------------\nWinnipeg 1 0 1--2\nVancouver 2 0 2--4\nFirst period\n 1, Vancouver, Adams 1 (Linden, Bure) pp, 1:23.\n 2, Vancouver, Craven 1 (Bure, Murzyn) 9:56.\n 3, Winnipeg, Steen 1 (Shannon, Housley) pp, 17:53.\nSecond period\n No scoring.\nThird period\n 4, Winnipeg, King 1 (Barnes) 3:43.\n 5, Vancouver, Linden 1(Courtnall, McLean) 12:16.\n 6, Vancouver, Ronning 1 (Courtnall) 18:31.\n\nVancouver: 4 Power play: 6-1\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nAdams 1 0 1\nBure 0 2 2\nCourtnall 0 2 2\nCraven 1 0 1\nLinden 1 1 2\nMcLean 0 1 1\nMurzyn 0 1 1\nRonning 1 0 1\n\nWinnipeg: 2 Power play: 3-1\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nBarnes 0 1 1\nHousley 0 1 1\nKing 1 0 1\nShannon 0 1 1\nSteen 1 0 1\n", "\nNo, Caleb, it's not the quality of ESPN that I have a problem with;\nit is superb, whereas it did not evolve beyond the point where ESPN\nleft off when hockey went to SC (this is excepting SC's use of feeds\nfrom CBC (-;). It's the amount of hockey they're showing, or lack\nof it, that we're complaining about. They had rights to two OT's\nthat could've been shown on Sunday night after baseball ... and\nthey had pickup trucks racing through oversized pigpens followed\nby Super-8 home movies of old car races (yes, I was checking in\ndesperation for Canucks-Jets) last night after SportsCenter.\n\ngld", "\n\n\n\n\nWe have no way of knowing because we cannot separate Morris' contribu-\ntion from the rest of the team's. There is only one way of determin-\ning \"best\" in baseball. And that is by looking at the scoreboard at\nthe end of the game. Each game determines which *team* is the best\nthat day. At the end of the season, the team that was the best the\nmost often is the best in the division. The playoffs determine the\nbest of the best. But the point is that the only decision making pro-\ncess used to determine the \"best\" is the score of the game and it re-\nlates to the *teams*. Not the individual players. There is no method\ninherent in baseball of comparing individual performances. And that\nis how it should be, because, after all, baseball is a team game.\n\nTo say that one player is better than another is to be able to say ab-\nsolutely that player A's team would have played better with player B\nin their lineup. Sheer speculation. Impossible to ascertain.\n\nIf you want to select a group of statistics and claim that Clemens has\ndone better with those statistics as a criteria, then fine. But you\nhave to be able to prove that those statistics measure the\nindividual's contribution to winning the WS - because that is the\nonly measure of \"best\" that has any meaning in the context of base-\nball. So until you can prove that Clemens contributes to a WS cham-\npionship more than Morris your evaluation of Clemens is totally sub-\njective and is mere opinion. I have yet to see that any of you can\npredict a WS winner with any greater accuracy than Jeanne Dixon.\n\n\nExactly. The Jays won with Morris pitching. And Boston wins with\nClemens pitching. I am not saying that Morris is better than Clemens.\nI am saying that individual comparisons between players are totally\nmeaningless and that anyone claiming that Clemens is better based on\nhis ERA has missed the point of what baseball is all about.\n\n\nYou don't have to be rude.\n\n\nFor you to say that means that you have either missed the entire point\nof my argument, or you yourself have committed a fallacy - Ignoratio\nElenchi. I am not saying that Morris is better than Clemens because\nhe has more rings (although I have, tongue in cheek, claimed\nthat in the past). I am saying that it is impossible to isolate an\nindividual's performance from that of his team's for the purpose of\ncomparing that individual's performance with another individual's per-\nformance.\n\nThe stats are a nice hobby and that's about it. There is no new\nknowledge being produced. So when a poster claims that Morris is better\nthan Clemens because he has more rings, the poster is no more nor less \nincorrect than the rest of you baying hounds.\n\n-- ", "OK, you asked for it!\n\nI guess that doesn't bode well for the Cubs then does it?\n", "\nI can't believe sh*t like this gets any attention in this group during\nthe playoffs.\n\nAli,you're a blabbering moron. At least you could've waited 'till\nthe end of the playoffs to start your dumb letter campaign.", "The new name is Florida Panthers. \nThe panther is an endangered species, mostly located in the Everglades.\nA couple of years ago, there were license plates made with Panthers on\nthem (part of the revenue were to go to some protection fund).\n\nThe name of the new President of the Panthers should be announced today.\n\nAs of yesterday's paper, Huizenga's new hockey team will take the ice at\nthe Miami Arena this fall. The team has a guaranteed two-year lease with\nthe arena, with four one-year options that could run through 1999.\n\n\"It's not our choice\", James Blosser, a lawyer and Huizenga Aid said\nabout ruling out the arena as a long term option. \"The NHL told us we \ncan't stay there. It's not economically feasible.\"\n\nOne reason is because the Miami Heat basketball team controls skybox\nand advertising revenue at the arena, reducing the hockey team's profit\npotential.\n\nThe hockey team is attracting arena site proposals from Broward, Dade, \nand Palm Beach counties.\n\nA leading site is vacant land near Joe Robbie Stadium, where residents\n10 days ago agreed to drop their opposition to a hockey arena, ending\nan eight-year battle of wills.\n\nCompliments of the News/Sun-Sentinel.\n\nJim G.", "\n\n\nDid he ever really convert? He married a Jewish woman, but I've never\nheard him say he converted. Elliot Maddox, on the other hand...\n\n\n\nYep, Holtzman. Saul Rogovin won an ERA title in 1949 or so before blowing out\nthe arm.\n\n\nI'd be surprised. btw, they may just be shopping Gallego around to\nmake room for AS.", "I basically agree, the Tigers are my favorite team. Actually, their\npitching might actually be better this year than last (not that htat's\nsaying a hole lot). How 'bout that home opener on Tuesday!! By the way,\nSparky goes for win 2,000 today. \n", "How about changing team names!\nPost your choices!\n\nHere I'll start:\nHow about the \nBaltimore Baseblazers\nSan Francisco Quakes", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nActually, Gaetti's first year with California was 1991. His .632 DA wasn't\nout of line with his career averages, and his .616 was actually below average\nin 1988. But check out the last three years at the Metrodome.\n\n1990\nGaetti .655\nAL Avg .604\n1991\nPags .744\nLeius .653\nAl Avg .620\n1992\nLeius .680\nAL Avg .603\n\nFor the last three years, the highest DAs in either league have been posted\nby Minnesota players -- three different ones, including one (Pags) who was\nmediocre to horrible elsewhere. That doesn't *prove* a park effect is at\nwork, any more than San Diego's horrible infield numbers prove a park effect\nis at work. But it looks like a strong possibility to me.\n\n Lots\n\nAnd it might even be a nice play to thrid base.\n-- \nDale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Baseball fanatic", "\n\n\n\nHmm, it seems the Little Leaguers didn't do too badly against Hershiser,\nStrawberry, E. Davis, and the rest of the Dodgers yesterday ... :-)\n", "Could anyone post the game summary for the Sabres-Bruins game.\n", "\n\n[stuff deleted]\n\n\n\nI think this goes along with a comment you made in an earlier post -\nnamely, Quinn taking advantage of a major league bonehead for a GM\nin St. Louis. This trade was an absolutely stupid trade for St. Louis,\nand it was not the only stupid trade that this guy made. We can give\nQuinn credit for being an opportunist here.\n\n[stuff about other trades deleted]\n\n\nHow do you figure? Both Vancouver and Detroit did the same thing last year:\nThey both won their division, they had close to the same number of points,\nthey both went down 3-1 in the first round of the playoffs before finally\nescaping in 7 games, and they both got knocked out in the second round by\nteams they should have been able to beat, with less talent. (Specifically,\nif I remember correctly, third place teams). How does this make Vancouver\nmore improved? Further, if I'm not mistaken, the Wings had more points than\nVancouver at the end of this season (albeit not many). \n", "\n\nWell, the \"jettison for youth fast\" strategy was his. Also in hindsight, it\ndidn't work all that well, but I think it was more because it left the\nSharks on a tightrope without a net, not that it was inherently flawed. It\nwas the injuries that caused us to fall.\n\n\nFrom all indications, it wasn't the \"major\" factor, but the \"last straw\".\nThere were personality conflicts among Shark management, and disagreements\nover how personnel were going to be handled (not just who was being traded\nvs. kept, but who was being sent to KC. What Ferriera did, if rumors are\nright, was not always what the folks behind the bench wanted or needed).\n\n\nI think if they'd kept Ferriera, they would have lost some of their other\nmanagement staff. Depending on which sources you trust, we might have lost\nGrillo AND Lombardi AND Murdoch over the summer. Frankly, I want to keep\nthose three. (we may well ahve also lost Kingston, which, of course, is now\na moot point). \n\nThe Sharks have been building an organizational staff that is highly\nconsensual and cooperative. Ferriera wanted to run things his way. There\nwere conflicts. Ferriera lost. That says nothing about his skills or\naccomplishments -- at that level, a lot is personality and politics. \n\nI think he did some good things for the Sharks, but that he never fit in as\na \"Shark person\". I hope he succeeds beyond his wildest dreams down in\nAnaheim, too, because it'll be good for hockey. (but I want the Ducks to be\ndoormats for a couple of years, so the Sharks succeeed first).\n", "1993 World Championships in Germany:\n ====================================\n\n Group A standings (Munich) Group B standings (Dortmund)\n -------------------------- ----------------------------\n\n GP W T L GF-GA +/- P GP W T L GF-GA +/- P\n\n Canada 5 5 0 0 31- 4 +27 10 Czech republic 5 4 1 0 17- 4 +13 9\n Sweden 5 3 0 2 17-14 +3 6 Germany 5 4 0 1 20-12 +8 8\n Russia 5 2 1 2 15-12 +3 5 USA 5 2 2 1 14-10 +4 6\n Switzerland 5 2 0 3 11-14 -3 4 Finland 5 2 1 2 7- 7 0 5\n ---------------------------------- -------------------------------------\n Italy 4 1 1 2 7-19 -12 3 Norway 4 0 0 4 1-13 -12 0\n Austria 4 0 0 4 3-21 -18 0 France 4 0 0 4 6-19 -13 0\n\n \n April 18: Italy - Russia 2-2 Norway - Germany 0-6\n Sweden - Austria 1-0 USA - Czech republic 1-1\n\n April 19: Canada - Switzerland 2-0\n Russia - Austria 4-2 Finland - France 2-0\n\n April 20: Sweden - Canada 1-4 Czech republic - Germany 5-0\n Switzerland - Italy 0-1 Finland - USA 1-1\n\n April 21: Germany - France 5-3\n Italy - Sweden 2-6 Czech republic - Norway 2-0\n\n April 22: Switzerland - Russia 0-6 USA - France 6-1\n Austria - Canada 0-11 Norway - Finland 0-2\n\n April 23: Switzerland - Austria 5-1 Germany - Finland 3-1\n\n April 24: Russia - Sweden 2-5 Czech republic - France 6-2\n Canada - Italy 11-2 USA - Norway 3-1\n\n April 25: Sweden - Switzerland 4-6 Finland- Czech republic 1-3\n Russia - Canada 1-3 Germany - USA 6-3\n\n April 26: Austria - Italy France - Norway\t\t20:00\n\n \n PLAYOFFS:\n =========\n\n April 27:\tQuarterfinals\n\t\tSweden - USA\t\t\t\t\t\t15:30\n\t\tRussia - Germany\t\t\t\t\t20:00\n\n April 28:\tQuarterfinals\n\t\tCanada - Finland\t\t\t\t\t15:30\n\t\tItaly/Switzerland - Czech republic\t\t\t20:00\n\n April 29:\tRelegation\n\t\tA #5 - B #6\t\t\t\t\t\t15:30\n\t\tA #6 - B #5\t\t\t\t\t\t20:00\n\n April 30:\tSemifinals\n\t\tA #1/B #4 - A #3/B #2\t\t\t\t\t15:30\n\t\tA #4/B #1 - A #2/B #3\t\t\t\t\t20:00\n\n May 1:\t\tRelegation\t\t\t\t\t\t14:30\n\t\tBronze medal game \t\t\t\t\t19:00\n\n May 2:\t\tFINAL\t\t\t\t\t\t\t15:00\n", "Hello Hockey fans.\nBonjour tout le monde!\n\nWell, in Salt Lake City this past Sunday, the local ABC station decided not\nto televise the hockey games. La directrous de programme est la tete de merde!\nAnyway, I have a satellite dish, and a few of my friends from hockey have invited themselves over to watch the games this coming Sunday (25 Apr), and I can\nnot find correct game times. For the Calgary at LA game I have times showing\neverything from 11:00 AM MDT, to 5:00 PM MDT.\n\nI am not even sure what games are going to be played this coming Sunday, now\nthat ABC has mucked up the schedule. I think I should be able to\npull in\nthree games (11:00 am, 2:00 pm, and 5:30 pm MDT) off the dish, but I am\nnot sure.\n\nIF anybody has a schedule, pleas emial it to me. As you can see, I have to\ntelent to get rec.sport.hockey, and it is sometimes difficult to get a link.\n\nThanks in advance\nMerci d'avance\n\nP.S. Anglais ou francais d'accord.\n\n\nRoland Behunin\n\nbehunin@oodis01.af.mil\nbehunin@oodis01.hill.af.mil", "I don't know if you could call him rushed, but \"Big\" Ben McDonald didn't\nmuch time at all in the minors. Of course that was because the balls used\nin AAA had seams too large and gave McDonald blisters forcing him to go\non the DL several times. He's done most of his learning here in the majors.\nOf course Gregg \"Wild Thing\" Olson and Mike \"Deserved a Cy Young\" Mussina\ndidn't spend much time in the minors either. I read somewhere that pitchers\nare less likely to need that much time in the minors anyway so maybe that\nhas something to do with it.\nLet's go O's! Why Not?\nAdmiral Steve \"Still reliving Sept. 30, 1989\" Liu\n____________________________________________________________________________\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n", "\n\nYes, it's a shame that the NHL lost a fine team in one of the best\nhockey markets in the country. Being a North Stars fan, it is sad to\nsee all of the tradition of the last 26 years get thrown into oblivion\nat the hands of a truly crappy owner.\n\nHopefully the NHL will install an expansion franchise in the Twin Cities\nwithin the next five years. Even if this is the case, a lot has been\nlost in the North Stars move...", "\n\n\n\nUh, right. You also forgot that you can't get an RBI (barring a HR) with\nnobody on base. What fraction of all runs come on solo HR?\n\nMost runs are scored because there happened to be players on base when the\nbatter did something good. I use the phrase \"happened to be\" advisedly.\nLots of people have tried to figure out who the players are who have the\nmost ability to \"turn it up a notch\" in clutch/RBI/whatever situations, and\nwhat they've found is that there is no evidence that *anyone* has such an\nability to any measurable extent. There are no clutch hitters. People who\ntend to do things that *would* cause an RBI if there were somebody on base\nend up getting RBIs proportional to how many of their teammates obliged by\nbeing in position. \n\n\nI agree.\n\n\n", "\n\n\nHow much do you watch and follow hockey? The Pens and Bruins will be in the\nsame division next season, which will give Neeley plenty of opportunity\nto whine about Ulf.", "\nYes and No. ESPN2 will be launched as early in September. Cap Cities\nare currently working with cable companies to ensure a good start-up\nbase needed for a launch for any brand new cable service.\n\nThe problem ESPN2 faces is the TCI-Cablevision connection in the\nmerger of their Prime and SportsChannel networks. Prime SportsChannel\nwill try to wrestle away NHL from ESPN in the off-season. Also,TCI\nand Cablevision have control a large number of cable systems around the\ncountry with a total of 15 million subscribers. TCI-Cablevision will\ndo their best that ESPN2 never gets off the ground successfully. And the\nNHL's value will suddenly skyrocket in this cable war between Prime SC\nand ESPN. NHL is more vital to the survival of a regionalized Prime\nSportsChannel since they virtually have no national major league sports\ncontracts and only cover local NHL/NBA/MLB sports teams.", "There are two conflicting reports about a pitcher that is\neither in the Jays' farm system or the Braves'. His name is Bill Taylor.\nHe was picked up by the Jays, but had to be offered back to the Braves\nbefore they were able to send him to the Syracuse Chiefs.", "Being a a BLUES fan I don't get to see much else from around the league\nwith the exception of Hockey Night on ESPN. I can't get the BLUES games\nwhere I go to school, thus I don't get to see a whole lot of other teams\nplay except for the Hawks. But last night I got to catch a glimpse of\nthe Caps/Isles game. It occurred to me that Turgeon is a stud on skates.\nHis moves are quick and brilliant. You NY fans should be proud.\nP.S. Who won the game (Caps/Isles)?", "\n\nMajor League Baseball is trying to expand its appeal to people with shorter\nattention spans (i.e. the football crowd). (-: Invariably, all the\narguments from people who don't like to watch baseball on T.V. say the\nsame thing: the games are too long and too boring. Baseball is trying\nto find a way to shorten the games for wider T.V. appeal. If you look at\nit, though, baseball games last around the same amount of time as football\ngames. The difference is that there is \"more action\" in that duration in\nfootball games. Perhaps if there were \"more action\" in baseball games, you\nwould get more of those fans to tune in. Anyway, coming up with a solution\nto make baseball more appealing to a bigger crowd is going to be difficult.\n[On soapbox] Yet another reason to get a commisioner NOW since it's obvious\nthat ruling baseball by comittee works about as fast as a snail race in\nNebraska. [Off soapbox]\n\n-Steve", "Nolan Ryan has torn cartlidge inhis right knee. Is having surgery and\nis expected to miss 2-5 weeks. ", "\"Todd Karlin\" writes\n\nBonilla wasn't threatening anyone. He just wanted to give him the dollar \ntour. =^)\n", "\nI'm glad Grant Fuhr will never be as over-confident after two wins\nas you are...it takes four wins to defeat an opponent...each tougher\nto obtain than the previous one. Buffalo is off to a good start...\nFuhr is proving the Fuhr-bashers wrong, but Boston is an awfully\ngood team.", "Reports in Ottawa today say that the Senators have come to a verbal\nagreement with last seasons first pick and 2nd overall choice Alexei\nYashin on a 5 year deal. As well the Senators have signed their second\nround pick Chad Penney who is currently playing for the Sault Ste. Marie\nGreyhounds in the Ontario Junior league playoffs.", "Do you think Omar's grand slam is the result of his new fan club? Last week \na banner appeared in the Kingdome: \n\n\tOLDER WOMEN FOR OMAR \n", "anyone know the outcome of tonight's jays game?\n-home runs?\n-winning pitcher?", "\nIf my powerplay was as bad as Montreal's, I'd be thanking Stewart for calling\nas few penalties as possible. Quebec's powerplay is lethal and it is to their\nadvantage to have a penalty-filled game where they can clean up with their\nsuperior powerplay. \n\nMontreal really lost that game (and game 2) because Patrick Roy is well on\nhis way to having another one of his trademark awful playoffs. The man is\ntruly overrated. Quebec has scored six goals on Roy and four, perhaps five, \nwere quite stoppable. ", "\nAnd of course, Mike Ramsey was (at one time) the captain in Buffalo prior to\nbeing traded to Pittsburgh. Currently, the Penguins have 3 former captains\nand 1 real captain (Lemieux) playing for them. They rotate the A's during the\nseason (and even the C while Mario was out). Even Troy Loney has worn the C\nfor the Pens.\n\n-Jay\n", "\nCan anybody name a player who was 'rushed' to the majors (let's, for\nargument's sake, define \"rushed\" as brought up to the majors for more than\na cup of coffee prior at age 22 or younger, and performing below\nexpectations), whose career was damaged by this rushing? I'm serious; I\ntend to agree with David that bringing the player up sooner is better, but\nI'd like to look at players for whom this theory didn't work, if there are\nany. I'd prefer players within the last 10 years or so, because then I can\nlook up their minor league stats. (It's important to distinguish between\nplayers who legitimately had careers below what their minor league numbers\nwould have projected, as opposed to players who were hyped and failed, but\nactually had careers not out of line with their minor league numbers). \n\nLet's kick it off with an example of a player who was \"rushed\", although\nthere doesn't seem to have been any damage to his career. Jay Bell was\ngiven 135 PAs in the major leagues at age 21, and performed well below what\nyou would expect from his AAA numbers the same season. He got 236 PAs the\nnext year at age 22, and still underperformed. However, the next year, at\nage 24, his performance improved, and he won the everyday shortstop job,\nand has been there ever since. It's really hard for me to see where he\nwould have been better off staying in the minor league (where he was\nperformed quite well in AAA) during this time, rather than being \"rushed\";\nCleveland might have been better off, I suppose, because they might have\nbeen less likely to give up on him.\n\nYes, if you bring a player up early, he's likely going to struggle. But\ndoes that delay the time at which he stops struggling, and starts\nperforming up to expectations?", ": > MVP Biggest Biggest\n: > Suprise Disappointment\n: \n: >Los Angeles Kings Robitaille Donnelly Hrudey\n: \n: \n: I would have chosen Alex Zhitnik for biggest suprise. They\n: did expect that he would become a great defenseman, but I don't\n: think anyone knew that he was going to be this impressive in his \n: rookie year. His speed, skating ability, and puck control is\n: exceptional -- he is the one to watch on the Kings.\n: \n\nI agree, with Marty McSorely and Warren Rychel running a close second and \nthird. I am surprised more people have not noted Knickle as the biggest\nsurprise, even though I personally do not really rate him well. The biggest \ndisappointment has to be Carson. Though this is really unfair, since too much \nwas expected of him. The second biggest disappointment is Melrose, with his \nadolescent handling of the goaltending problems. Putting Hrudey on the bench \nfor a month is just stupid. It did not contribute to the team coming out of \nits slump. MVP is surely Robitaille.", "Could some kind soul out there e-mail me the 411 on where I can find the mlb.c \nprogram? I'm interested in some road trips this year....\n", "\nYou think that's bad ... one year, we had all three New York teams in\nthe playoffs and the cableco operator (SCNY once shared a channel with\nBET but someone forgot to throw the switch at 6PM) didn't know what I\nwas talking about ...\n\nWhile it's nice that the NHL is back on American network TV, it faces\nthe same problems as it did with the All Star game. Local preemptions\nand zero promotion (okay, I don't watch that much TV so I'm just foaming\nall right?). The league should have made sure that it was solid on cable\nbefore going to the networks. In year one of the new ESPN contract, the\nsaturation coverage of SCA (all other games shown to completion, like\nthe Quebec-Montreal and Sabres-Bruins overtimes) is missed around here.\n\ngld", "In a Philadelphia Inquirer a few days ago, it was reported that there were\ntwo (2) plans for a new Phillies stadium: the already-mentioned 30th\nStreet Station proposal, and a location near Broad Street and Race Street,\nI think. I can't remember the exact details, but the stadium would be\nbuild practically downtown. There is a small lot that could be used,\naccording to the paper. The 30th street plan has run into some trouble,\nbecause Amtrak does not want to reroute some of its lines in order to\naccomodate the stadium. I don't have an opinion just yet, just letting\neveryone know that there are really two options being discussed right now.\nNeither of these plans will be put into effect very soon, however, because\nnobody wants to pay for it :-)\n\n--\n Keith Keller\t\t\t\tLET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!\n\t\t\t\t\t\tLET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!\n\tkkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu\t\tIVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!", "Just wondering. A friend and I were talking the other day, and\nwe were (for some reason) trying to come up with names of Jewish\nbaseball players, past and present. We weren't able to come up\nwith much, except for Sandy Koufax, (somebody) Stankowitz, and\nmaybe John Lowenstein. Can anyone come up with any more. I know\nit sounds pretty lame to be racking our brains over this, but\nhumor us. Thanks for your help.", "\n\n\n\n\tI think that you are incorrect, Roger. Patrick,\nSmythe and Adams all played or coached in the league before becoming\nfront office types. Hence, they did help build the league, although\nthey were not great players themselves. \n\n\tI agree that a name is a name is a name, and if some people\nhave trouble with names that are not easily processed by the fans,\nthen changing them to names that are more easily processed seems like\na reasonable idea. If we can get people in the (arena) door by being\nuncomplicated, then let's do so. Once we have them, they will realize\nwhat a great game hockey is, and we can then teach them something\nabotu the history of the game. \n \n\n\tNo, I would not want to see a Ballard division. But to say\nthat these owners are assholes, hence all NHL management people are\nassholes would be fallacious. Conn Smythe, for example, was a classy\nindividual (from what I have heard). \n\n\tAlso, isn't the point of \"professional\" hockey to make money\nfor all those involved, which would include the players. What I think\nyou might be saying is that the players have not made as much money as\nshould have been their due, and it is the players that are what make\nthe game great not the people who put them on the ice, so naming\ndivision after management people rather than players is adding insult\n(in the form of lesser recognition) to injury (less money than was\ndeserved). ", "It's over - the Sabres came back to beat the Bruins in OT 6-5 tonight\nto sweep the series. A beautiful goal by Brad May (Lafontaine set him\nup while lying down on the ice) ended it. Fuhr left the game game with\nan injured shoulder and Lafontaine was banged up as well; however, the\nSabres will get a week's rest so injuries should not be a problem.\n\nMontreal edged Quebec 3-2 to square their series, which seems to be\nheaded for Game 7. The Habs dominated the first two periods and were\nunlucky to only have a 2-2 tie after 40 minutes. However, an early\ngoal by Brunet in the 3rd won it.\n\nThe Islanders won their 3rd OT game of the series on a goal by Ray\nFerraro 4-3; the Caps simply collapsed after taking a 3-0 lead in the\n2nd. The Isles' all-time playoff OT record is now 28-7.", "\nI was at a Cincinnati Cyclones game a year ago when the local country\nstation sponsored a kazoo giveaway. After a particularly bad call by the\nunderexperienced ECHL ref, it was Kazoostorm time down on the ice. I\nthought this was a pathetic display by the fans, but they were rightfully\nunhappy.", "\nThe Chicago Tribune pitching form has Perez pitching today (4/16). But\ngiven the way that Buck changes his rotation so often, that could just be\nthe work of a confused stat-page editor.\n\n", "HELP! I'm stuck here at a computer in New Jersey and have no access to\na radio or TV. Could someone kindly post the score of the Canucks-Jets\ngame? Thanks in advance.", "\nSince everybody wants to see Pittsburgh players not playing, the\nStanley cup would be devaluated.\n\n-- \n_____________________________________________________\n\n Iskander AYARI", ": That more or less says it. I flicked the Penguins game on briefly and saw\n: Ulf cross-check Valeri in the face. I am wondering if Don Cherry is going to\n: go off on this at all in coach's corner.\n\nAnd that was the ONLY infraction of this type in the game. \nCome on! Wake up! Geez He's not the only player who does this\nsort of thing. I think we were kind of lucky. The game was not\nreally all that \"chippy\" considering the state NJ is in about\nnow.\n", "\n\nLet's see... April 15th... less than 30 at bats.... and you claim that he \nhasn't done too much so far!\n\nCut this guy some slack. Danny will produce this year. It's scary to think\njust how much he'll produce if he were to stay healthy all year.\n\nThe Yanks have a lot going for them this year: good starting rotation, good\nbullpen, good defense and a good lineup. Also, I like Buck Showalter. Frank\nHoward on 1st is also a good move. Everything sounds good so far. \n\nIf the Yanks stay healthy, they have a good chance at winning the pennant. This \nis the most fun I've had watching the Yanks since \"78!", "\n\n\nUh, Bill James doesn't sell statistics. He sells books with statistics,\nbut he is not in the business of providing stats like Elias, STATS,\nHowe, Baseball workshop etc. are.", "\n\nI need 3 tickets to the cleveland showing of phantom of the opera.\nI will pay face value for tickets in the 50 dollar and lower range\npreferably a matinee show but any in middle to late may will be bought.\nplease leave mail.\n", "\n...which would make the number 15%, right Clayton?", "Here is the Colorado Rockies openning day cast:\n\nPitchers\n--------\nScott Aldred (L) MLB Totals 31 games, 6-14, 5.08 ERA, 0 saves\nAndy Ashby (R) 18 games, 2-8, 6.72 ERA, 0 saves\nWillie Blair (R) 67 games, 10-15,4.57 ERA, 0 saves\nButch Henry (L) 28 games, 6-9, 4.02 ERA, 0 saves\nDarren Holmes (R) 95 games, 5-9, 4.10 ERA, 9 saves\nDavid Neid (R) 6 games, 3-0, 1.17 ERA, 0 saves\nJeff Parrett (R) 341 games, 46-30,3.65 ERA,21 saves\nSteve Reed (R) 18 games, 1-0, 2.30 ERA, 0 saves\nBruce Ruffin (L) 223 games, 43-64,4.31 ERA, 3 saves\nBryn Smith (R) 354 games,106-90,3.44 ERA, 6 saves\nGary Wayne (L) 147 games, 8-8, 3.44 ERA, 3 saves\n\nThe rest", "\nAs I have read this net the last few days, I am continually amazed at the \npronouncements of baseball prowess by many individuals. Especially when it \ncomes down to saying that the Bosox haven't a prayer. As a long time Red Sox\nfan, I will simply say: The Impossible Dream Year - 1967 for those of you\nwith short memories. short lives, or both. \n\nTo be a Red Sox fan is to continually be the subject of abuse and criticism\nfrom those who only follow 'the hot team'. This statement is supported based\non the increased number of 'Brave Woofers' out on the net. A true fan of a \nteam, any team, will follow that team through the good years as well as the lean\nyears, and be amply rewarded when the time is right. \n\nYeah, so what if Buckner let a roller go through his legs in `86. Who cares if\nClemens told Cooley to go piss up a rope and promptly earned a quick shower. The\nfact is, they were one of the best teams in the league those years and the fans\nsupported them. Now that it appears that they are on lean times, the number of \ndetracters come from all over. So what! Let them play and we will see what \nhappens come September. The Red Sox may not be that good, but they are certainly \nnot that bad, either and they do have a chance to win the World Series, after all,\nremember the `69 Mets? Who would have given them a chance to even make it that\nfar, let alone beat Baltimore.\n\nLet's face it, Baseball is a wonderful game and is far more unpredictable than Football\nand Basketball. Because of this, one can never say with absolute certainity what\nthe outcome will be over the course of 162 games.", "\n\n\nI'll have to disagree with you on this one. I think Vancouver will go as\nBure goes, and if he continues on his goal scoring slump, then they\nwon't even make it out of the first round. I think the Kings will make\nit out of the first round, regardless of who they play. They seem to be\ndoing pretty well, even with that bad game against Minnesota on\nSaturday. I think it'll be either Calgary or Los Angeles to win the\nSmythe (i.e. go on to the conference finals). ", "\n(much mindless drivel deleted)\n\n\nQuestion to you Canadian folk: is this University of New Brunswick a\nbranch campus of the Western Business School? Seems like the same sort\nof rectal appendage belongs to both of them.", "My father is a huge Tiger fan, and I am a loyal Blue Jay fan, who endured the collapse of 87, the heartbreak of 85. \n\nI don't have the stat book, so let's throw them out.\n\nFirst of all, Morris in his heyday (81-88) vs Clemens (86-present).\n\nHow many Cy Youngs does Morris have?\n\nHow many Cy youngs does Clemens have?\n\nBallparks and such... Fenway average pitchers park. Detroit, hugh hitters\nparadise. \n\nMorris is a great team pitcher, sort of in the Doug Drabek mold. \nIf Morris's team needs a well pitched game, as in Minn in 91, Morris\nsnaps the ball, and throw for Ks. Otherwise, he just tries to get people out.\n\nAs for Clemens, in the Elias Stat Book of 1992, I believe\nthat Clemens has the best lifetime record for his team, as compared to\nwhen he doesn't pitch. How bad would the Red sox have been last year\nwithout him? Can you say 92 Phillies?\n\nI believe Clemens is the better pitcher because of more power, and hsi\ngreat tenacity. Morris is among the guttiest pitchers I;ve ever seen,\nbut Clemens is in a class with Seaver, Carlton, etc. ", "3. With Soderstrom and Roussel, why the hell would the Flyers want to\n pick up an older and slumping Roy?\n\n(BYW, I could come up with a group of players they'd trade for.... but\nthey wouldn't be from the same team.)\n", "\nYes, Ivan Rodriguez, last year. Batted .260 and threw out 51% of the\nbaserunners. Not too shabby for a rookie from AA. 20 years old last\nyear.\n", "I thought that was Sandy Koufax.", "Ladies and gentleman,\n\n\tStep one was taken on the Phils' triumphant trip this year tonight!\n\n\t\t\t(Yes, that was English!)\n\n\tMulholland's ERA after tonight's game? 0.00...nice try Drabek!\n\n\n\n", "\n \nI believe the NHL Draft is on or the June 18th weekend.\n", "\nNo problem, no offence taken ...\n\n\nIt is sad, just as a lover of the sport, that this team can be in\nthe metro New York area for over a decade and still exist as just\na non-entity ...\n\n\nWe're getting the Sabres-Bruins as the replacement game (and probably\nso are you) while the Devils-Penguins game is played on SCNY and the\nIslanders-Caps are the overflow game on the SCA (SCNY Plus). If the\nSabres-Bruins ends early then we'll go to the Devils-Penguins game\n(assuming that ESPN follows their previous patterns; we got the last\nminute of the Islanders-Rangers and all of the overtime two weeks\nago). ESPN's coverage started last night, by accident, but as one\nor more other writers have pointed out, they could've gone to wild\nhog wrestling for the evening instead ...\n\ngld", "\nlittle.\n\nI know what you mean! I glow everytime Ronnie's out on the ice.\nIn fact, one of the neatest things about seeing the Pens in person\nis that I can key in on him instead of watching what I'd probably\nbe seeing on tv. He does so many subtle things behind the play.\n\nHe said in an interview recently that when he was a kid his dad\nstressed the importance of playing two-way hockey; that you have to\nlearn how to play defense as well as offense and he obviously took\nthat advice to heart. He was a breath of fresh air when he arrived\nin Pittsburgh to the team whose forwards, for the most part, couldn't\nand wouldn't play a lick of defense.\n\nIt's really difficult to assess what the key trades were that brought\nall of this success to the Pens. You mention Rick Tocchet and he has\ncertainly helped, and even ol' Kjell has been steady. But looking at\nthis team you could almost take any one of them out of the line-up\npermanently and replace them with an extremely mediocre player and it\nwouldn't matter.\n\nIf I had to pick the top three acquisitions in recent years they would\nbe 1) Tom Barrasso; 2) Ron Francis; 3) Larry Murphy. (I'd love to put\nFrancis first but I do think the only thing that could really damage\nthe Pens right now would be to lose Barrasso.)", "\n\nThe tribe will be in town from April 16 to the 19th.\nThere are ALWAYS tickets available! (Though they are playing Toronto,\nand many Toronto fans make the trip to Cleveland as it is easier to\nget tickets in Cleveland than in Toronto. Either way, I seriously\ndoubt they will sell out until the end of the season.)\n", "\n\nI agree with Nick. What's the big deal about long games? If you want\nto watch baseball, there's that much more baseball to watch. And yes,\nbaseball includes the space between plays as well as the plays themselves.\n\nI suspect that a lot of the complaining about long games, especially when\nit's coming from TV people, has to something to do with advertising.\nProbably time \"wasted\" in the middle of an inning, say by a batter\nstepping out of the box to fiddle with his gloves, or by a pitcher\nwalking around behind the mound trying to collect his thoughts, could\notherwise be sold as advertising time.", "\n\nWell, OBP is the most important offensive statistic, and by a big margin.\n50 points of OBP is worth considerably more than 50 points of slugging.\nThat being said, I still think Baerga was VERY SLIGHTLY better last year,\nbut I think this is as close to a wash as you're likely to find.\n\nI personally don't care much for Alomar's defense. I don't think he's\nnearly as good as people make him out to be, and he can't turn the DP\nto save his life. He comes across the bag improperly, and his release\nis slow. Considering the high leverage of the DP, this is a shortcoming\nI can't overlook. In the long term, I'd move Alomar to another position.\n\nIf the Jays could trade a hot Devon White for something, I'll be Alomar\ncould be a hell of a CF. In the long run, I think I'd rather have Jeff\nKent at 2B and Alomar in CF than Alomar/White.\n\n\n\n", "\nwondering\n -------------\n\nDo you mean Juan Berenguer? He was traded for Mark Davis in the middle\nof last season. Exchanged one stiff for another, as Berenguer hadn't\ncome back from his injury in 91. I think he's retired now.\n\nAnyhow, as middle relief, Marvin ain't that bad. He at least can\npitch a couple of innings or do mop-up work. I don't know much\nabout McMichael (was he the Mexican League guy?), but\neverybody else in the pen is a 1 inning man, except maybe\nMercker.\n\n\n-------------------------------------------------------\nEric Roush\t\tfierkelab@\tbchm.biochem.duke.edu\n\"I am a Marxist, of the Groucho sort\"\nGrafitti, Paris, 1968\n\nTANSTAAFL! (although the Internet comes close.)", "\nAlso, Alomar got a FAR greater boost from his home park than Baerga did from \nhis. And \"six or seven home runs\"? Hmm.\n\nSo, if you wanted to pick a second baseman to play in Toronto, you'd take \nAlomar. Anywhere else, and you'd probably take Baerga.\n\nMike", "\nI only have one comment on this: You call this a *classic* playoff year\nand yet you don't include a Chicago-Detroit series. C'mon, I'm a Boston\nfan and I even realize that Chicago-Detroit games are THE most exciting\ngames to watch.", "\nI don't think Primeau is necessarily a bad pick...I'm was just trying\nto locate the beginning of Murray's decisions...he slowness in trading\nCarson has delayed Primeau's development...and you have to wait longer\nfor big players often...and Primeau can be a very good player without\nbeing a point-a-game-player, especially on a team that has Yzerman and\nFedorov...if Primeau becomes Joel Otto, and gets 20 goals a season,\nand plays mean...it will have been an extremely good pick.", "\nDid your boyfriend comment on the fact that Clement looks like a\nwalking ad for Brillo pad hair replacement therapy? The guy's just a\nstuffed shirt who thinks he's the greatest hockey analyst since Howie\nMeeker (for gosh sakes). I'll take Schoenie any day.\n\nGeorge\n", "\n\nI beg to differ, he had a couple 3 hit games after he came back. He did\nget caught stealing though. He also missed sunday's game. Did he play\ntonight? If not, I'm worried. He's on my team too.", " \n \n Well, here in Detroit we get to see and hear Don Cherry quite regularly.\nThe Detroit area picks up Hockey Night in Canada from CBC (ch 9) in\nWindsor where we see Don Cherry's Coaches Corner between periods. We\nalso get to see Don Cherry's Grapevine just before the game. The\nGrapevine is a hockey talk show where Don talks to a player or coach\nabout what else: Hockey. It's actually a pretty good show and Don\nisn't as annoying as he is on Coaches Corner. I think this is were\nDon got his nickname 'Grapes' but I'm not sure. Don use to coach the\nBoston Bruins. I don't know exactly when that was. Could someone fill\nme in on this info?\n A local radio station here in Detroit (WLLZ) talks to Don every Tuesday\nmorning. Personally, I've had my fill of Donny! He really pisses me off\nsometimes. During the Detroit-Toronto game Monday night on CBC, Don gave\nhigh praise to Doug Gilmour, saying he was a two-way player and not\njust a designated goal scorer and that he is probably the best player\nin the game because of that. That's fine and I agree that Gilmour\nis a good two-way player BUT he said the EXACT same thing about Yzerman\nabout a month ago on a local radio talk show. What gives?\n It seems like he just has a set speech that he changes when he goes from\ncity to city.\n Don Cherry: 'I think \n is the best two-way player in the league today.'\n \n There have been other times (can't remember exactly what he said) that he\nbasically changed his opinions to match the audience he was talking to.\n Someone here on the net said something about how Don criticized Mario\nLemieux but when the time comes for Don to broadcast the Cup playoffs\nfrom the Civic Center (Yes, I think the Pens will make it out of the\nWales Conference) Don will apologize left and right for his remarks about\nLemieux. In my opinion, he is an ass. And I won't change my opinion\nif I'm in a different city.\n Sorry, if this didn't answer your question better but I just had to get\nthis off my chest.", "\nBuffalo seems to have started a tradition of trading its captains.\n\nPat LaFontaine was awarded the Captaincy when Mike Ramsey was forced\nto give it up (Ramsey's now a Penguin). Ramsey inherited it from Mike\nFoligno (who's now a leaf). He in turn had inherited it from Lindy\nRuff, who went I forget where. Ruff had it from Perreault, who\nretired, so I guess that's where the streak started. Or did it?\nAfter all, Danny Gare was captain before him, and he went to Detroit.\nJim Scoenfeld, Gerry Meehan, and Floyd Smith are the others, in\nreverse order, last to first. I was a bit young at the time, so I'm\nnot sure of the fate of Schoenfeld, but he ultimately went to Detroit\nand Boston. Meehan went to Vancouver, Atlanta and Washington. Smith\nseems to have hung up his skates after Buffalo, but I don't know if\nthe captaincy was removed before or after that, or how many games he\nplayed for Buffalo. This is actually getting fascinating. :-)\n\nCaptaincy in Buffalo is a sure sign you're to be traded, almost,\nunless you're a franchise player.\n", "I am just wondering whether the official MLB stats includes \nIntentional Walks in the BB category or not?", "\n Ah, so you finally found a use for that super slo-mo and frame advance\nother than scrutinizing \"Sorority Babes in Heat\". Congrats! \n\n\n Trust me, you'd have a helluva time manipulating them. Besides, if you\nconverted the film to video you'd have all kinds of artifacts because of the\ndifference in frame rate (unless you're an expert at doing 3/2 pulldown for\na laserdisc company or something). \n\n\n Hey, no fair! What about 'Fettucine' Alfredo Griffin? The guy practically\nhas to pivot the bat around along with his body. \n\n\n Daulton doesn't strike me as all that strange. He's a little bit quiet at \nthe plate but, like Franco, gets the bat through the hitting zone on a level\nplane. The first time I watched Julio Franco, I didn't think *anyone* could\nhit like that. Now I marvel at how easy he makes it look; every time he makes\ncontact, it's *solid*. He's got good power to all fields and rarely is he\ncaught not ready for a pitch. \n\n I wonder if Phil Plantier had a severe bout with hemorrhoids and had to\npractice his swing while 'on the throne'? :-) Sure looks like it :-) \n\n How 'bout one to add to your list: Travis Fryman? The guy plants his front\nfoot and seems to swing *across* his body. He generates a lot of power, but\nI keep thinking he could generate even more if he could get a better pivot\nout of his hips. \n\n\n Well, they're already spoken for (by several people), but .. \n\n I'd add Robbie Alomar's name to the list, among others. I really like Dean\nPalmer's swing, for some twisted reason, as well as Pedro Munoz's swing. \n\n\n A thought about May: It looks like they've taught him to turn on the ball.\nIMHO, he's going to fall in love with his newfound power and start pulling\noff the ball to the point that he's going to see *lots* of sinkers/sliders\nlow and away. Unless he adjusts quickly and starts rifling doubles to left \nand left-center, IMHO you're going to see a good number of weak grounders to \nthe right side of the infield in the next month. \n", "\nDid you watch the games????\n\n", "[about the infield fly rule]\n\tUnless he's Deion Sanders, in which case he just heads back to the\ndugout and waits for his next base-running-blunder opportunity.", "So this year you had a game on SCNY, a game on SCA, a game on ESPN,\nand if the Rangers hadn't crashed and burned, you would have had a\ngame on MSG. What are you complaining about?\n\nI seem to recall last year everyone complaining about SC coverage. I\neven remember Orioles' games being shown in the DC area instead of\nhockey. And what about when SC failed to show the conclusion of other\ngames because its feature game was over? Sound familiar?\n\nThis year I'm getting twice the coverage. I can see all the Caps\ngames *plus* the games ESPN shows. I think it's great that hockey is\nback on ESPN. IMHO, they're doing a great job especially considering\nthe baseball contract they have to work around.\n\n--", "NHL RESULTS FOR GAMES PLAYED 4/15/93.\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n STANDINGS\n PATRICK ADAMS NORRIS SMYTHE\n TM W L T PT TM W L T PT TM W L T PT TM W L T PT\n \nxPIT 56 21 7 119 xBOS 51 26 7 109 xCHI 47 25 12 106 xVAN 46 29 9 101\nyWAS 42 34 7 91 yQUE 47 27 10 104 yDET 47 28 9 103 yCAL 43 30 11 97\nyNJ 40 36 7 87 yMON 48 30 6 102 yTOR 44 29 11 99 yLA 39 35 10 88\nyNYI 39 37 7 85 yBUF 38 36 10 86 ySTL 37 36 11 85 yWIN 40 37 7 87\n PHL 35 37 11 81 HAR 26 51 6 58 MIN 36 38 10 82 EDM 26 50 8 60\n NYR 34 38 11 79 OTT 10 70 4 24 TB 23 54 7 53 SJ 11 71 2 24\n\nx - Clinched Division Title\ny - Clinched Playoff Berth\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nMinnesota North Stars (36-38-10) 1 1 1 - 3\nDetroit Red Wings (47-28-9) 0 2 3 - 5\n\n1st period: MIN, McPhee 18 - (Ludwig) 1:23\n\t\n2nd period: MIN, Dahlen 34 - (Courtnall, Gagner) (pp) 0:31\n\t DET, Drake 18 - (Howe, Ogrodnick) 9:14\n\t DET, Ysebaert 34 - (Lidstrom, Howe) (pp) 17:37\n\n3rd period: DET, Ciccarelli 41 - (Coffey, Chiasson) (pp) 0:32\n\t DET, Kennedy 19 - (Burr, Probert) 3:42\n\t DET, Yzerman 58 - (Ciccarelli, Gallant) 6:17\n\t MIN, Dahlen 35 - (Courtnall, Gagner) 19:11\n\nPowerplay Opportunities-North Stars 1 of 2\n\t\t\tRed Wings 2 of 4\n\nShots on GOal-\tNorth Stars 10 9 11 - 30\n\t\tRed Wings 6 15 8 - 29\n\nMinnesota North Stars--Casey (26-26-5) (29 shots - 24 saves)\nDetroit Red Wings--Cheveldae (34-24-7) (30 shots - 27 saves)\n\nATT-19,749\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nPhiladelphia Flyers (35-37-11) 1 2 4 - 7\nBuffalo Sabres (38-36-10) 0 3 1 - 4\n\n1st period: PHL, Recchi 52 - (Galley, Lindros) 0:18\n\n2nd period: PHL, Hawgood 11 - (Dineen, Eklund) (pp) 2:15\n\t PHL, Dineen 33 - (McGill) (sh) 5:40\n\t BUF, Barnaby 1 - (Hawerchuk, Smehlik) (pp) 7:48\n\t BUF, Wood 18 - (LaFontaine, Ledyard) (pp) 17:34\n\t BUF, Mogilny 75 - (Hawerchuk, Carney) (pp) 18:56\n\n3rd period: PHL, Eklund 11 - (Dineen, Beranek) 4:42\n\t BUF, Mogilny 76 - (Errey, LaFontaine) 5:24\n\t PHL, Dineen 34 - (Brind'Amour) (pp) 6:44\n\t PHL, Dineen 35 - (Brind'Amour, Galley) (sh) 8:39\n\t PHL, Acton 8 - (Dineen, Brind'Amour) 19:48\n\nPowerplay Opportunities-Flyers 2 of 5\n\t\t\tSabres 3 of 10\n\nSHots on Goal-\tFlyers 6 7 13 - 26\n\t\tSabres 8 19 18 - 45\n\nPhiladelphia Flyers--Soderstrom (20-17-6) (45 shots - 41 saves)\nBuffalo Sabres--Fuhr (10 shots - 7 saves) Hasek (11-10-4) (5:40 second) \n\t\t(16 shots - 12 saves)\n\nATT-15,042\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nEdmonton Oilers (26-50-8) 0 0 0 - 0\nWinnipeg Jets (40-37-7) 1 2 0 - 3\n\n1st period: WIN, Shannon 20 - (Steen, Davydov) (pp) 2:08\n\t\n2nd period: WIN, Selanne 76 - (Olausson) 5:25\n\t WIN, Zhamnov 25 - (Selanne) 19:42\n\n3rd period: NONE\n\nPowerplay Opportunities-Oilers 0 of 3\n\t\t\tJets 1 of 6\n\nSHots on GOal-\tOilers 7 8 16 - 31\n\t\tJets 10 16 16 - 42\n\nEdmonton Oilers--Ranford (17-38-6) (42 shots - 39 saves)\nWinnipeg Jets--Essensa (33-26-6) (31 shots - 31 saves)\n\nATT-12,229\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nToronto Maple Leafs (44-29-11) 1 1 0 - 2\nChicago BlackHawks (47-25-12) 0 2 1 - 3\n\n1st period: TOR, Baumgartner 1 - 18:40\n\n2nd period: CHI, Roenick 50 - (Murphy, Chelios) 1:29\n\t TOR, Andreychuk 55 - (Mironov, Lefebvre) 13:22\n\t CHI, Murphy 7 - (Roenick, Chelios) (pp) 19:05\n\n3rd period: CHI, Matteau 15 - 10:51\n\nPowerplay Opportunities-Maple Leafs 1 of 3\n\t\t\tBlackHawks 1 of 7\n\nShots on Goal-\tMaple Leafs 14 4 8 - 26\n\t\tBlackHawks 10 13 13 - 36\n\nToronto Maple Leafs--Potvin (25-15-7) (36 shots - 33 saves)\nChicago BlackHawks--Belfour (41-18-11) (26 shots - 24 saves)\n\nATT-17,856\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nTampa Bay Lightning (23-54-7) 0 2 3 - 5\nSt. Louis Blues (37-36-11) 3 3 0 - 6\n\n1st period: STL, Shanahan 50 - (Brown, Felsner) 10:44\n\t STL, Miller 23 - (Bassen, Brown) 19:38\n\t STL, Bassen 8 - (Zombo) 19:48\n\n2nd period: STL, Bassen 9 - (Hedican, Miller) 0:14\n\t STL, Miller 24 - (Zombo, Hedican) 11:09\n\t TBL, Maltais 7 - (Hamrlik) 11:27\n\t TBL, Bergland 3 - (Harvey, Gilhen) 17:16\n\t TBL, Shanahan 51 - (Emerson) 19:38\n\n3rd period: TBL, Creighton 19 - (Bergland, Bergevin) 0:40\n\t TBL, Chambers 10 - (Zamuner, Cole) 10:37\n\t TBL, Cole 12 - (Beers, Bradley) 11:58\n\nPowerplay Opportunities-Lightning 0 of 3\n\t\t\tBlues 0 of 4\n\nSHots on GOal-\tLightning 5 12 14 - 31\n\t\tBlues 11 11 4 - 26\n\nTampa Bay Lightning--Jablonski (8-24-4) (22 shots - 16 saves) Bergeron (0:00\n\t\t third) (4 shots - 4 saves)\nSt. Louis Blues--Joseph (29-28-9) (18 shots - 15 saves) Hebert (19:20 third)\n\t (13 shots - 11 saves)\n\nATT-17,816\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nSan Jose Sharks (11-71-2) 0 1 2 - 3\nCalgary Flames (43-30-11) 0 4 3 - 7\n\n1st period: NONE\n\n2nd period: SJS, Garpenlov 22 - (Odgers, Gaudreau) (pp) 3:37\n\t CAL, Nieuwendyk 38 - (MacInnis, Suter) (pp) 5:26\n\t CAL, Ranheim 21 - (Otto, Suter) 10:43\n\t CAL, Yawney 1 - (Nieuwendyk, Roberts) 11:26\n\t CAL, Berube 4 - (Paslawski, Skrudland) 13:45\n\n3rd period: SJS, Wood 1 - (Odgers, Kisio) 8:00\n\t CAL, Reichel 40 - 9:26\n\t CAL, Roberts 38 - (Musil, Paslawski) (pp) 12:27\n\t SJS, Kisio 26 - 13:10\n\t CAL, Paslawski 18 - (Ashton, Stern) 16:16\n\nPowerplay Opportunities-Sharks 1 of 3\n\t\t\tFlames 2 of 4\n\nShots on Goal-\tSharks 5 11 9 - 25\n\t\tFlames 11 14 7 - 32\n\nSan Jose Sharks--Irbe (7-25-0) (32 shots - 25 saves)\nCalgary Flames--Vernon (29-26-9) (25 shots - 22 saves)\n\nATT-19,532\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nVancouver Canucks (46-29-9) 1 2 5 - 8\nLos Angeles Kings (39-35-10) 2 3 1 - 6\n\n1st period: LAK, Robitaille 63 - (Gretzky, Sandstrom) 1:39\n\t VAN, Babych 3 - (Craven, Nedved) (pp) 9:43\n\t LAK, Sandstrom 25 - (Gretzky, Robitaille) 10:06\n\n2nd period: VAN, Linden 32 - (Ronning, Courtnall) (pp) 0:54\n\t VAN, Ward 22 - (Hunter, Nedved) 1:24\n\t LAK, Gretzky 16 - (Sandstrom, Robitaille) 6:57\n\t LAK, Zhitnik 12 - (Kurri, Robitaille) (pp) 14:02\n\t LAK, Millen 23 - (Hardy) (pp) 16:57\n\n3rd period: VAN, Ronning 27 - (Dirk) 5:28\n\t VAN, Ronning 28 - (Courtnall, Linden) (pp) 11:15\n\t VAN, Linden 33 - (Courtnall, Ronning) 11:27\n\t LAK, Donnelly 29 - (Millen, Granato) (pp) 14:35\n\t VAN, Courtnall 31 - (Ronning, Ratushny) 14:54\n\t VAN, Ronning 29 - (Linden, Diduck) (en) 18:47\n\nPowerplay Opportunities-Canucks 3 of 6\n\t\t\tKings 3 of 10\n\nShots on Goal-\tCanucks 8 6 16 - 30\n\t\tKings 10 21 10 - 41\n\nVanocuver Canucks--Whitmore (18-8-4) (41 shots - 35 saves)\nLos Angeles Kings--Stauber (23 shots - 17 saves) Hrudey (17-21-6) (11:27\n\t\t third) (6 shots - 5 saves)\n\nATT-16,005\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n", "\n\nNorman Green claims that he has lost money over the last three years\nthat he has owned the team. When he bought the team, it seemed kind of\nobvious that he was going to have to deal with a few years in the red,\nbefore the team started making a profit again. He gave the impression\nthat he was willing to do so. He claimed two years ago that the team\nneeded to average only 8000+ fans per game in order to pull a profit,\nbut this season the team averaged 12000+ fans, despite increasd ticket\nprices. I think the team's attendence and play was clearly in an upward\ntrend, which leaves me dumbfounded as to how he could ignore that in\ndeciding to move. He was even offered the many concessions he rudely\ndemanded, such as guaranteed season ticket sales, cheap rent at the\nother two arenas in town, etc.\n\nOh well, I guess the bottom line is $$$. Green wanted immediate huge\nreturns in Dallas, and wasn't willing to wait another year or so in MN. \nDallas gave Green a pretty stellar deal to play there (although I feel\nMinnesota's was quite reasonable), and he also has some cronies down\nthere as well. All this means, is that Minnesota is without an NHL team\nfor a year or two. Too bad for the NHL.", "\nOf course a run scored is just as important as a run prevented.\nJust as a penny saved is a penny earned. Enough with the cliches.\nMy point is that IF the Braves starters are able to live up to\ntheir potential, they won't need much offensive support.\nI realize this is a BIG IF. This staff leaves the '92 BoSox in the dust.\nThere is no legitimate comparison. Two Cy Young winners, and three other\npitchers that most any team in the league would kill to have as their first\nor second starter. It seems to me that when quality pitchers take the\nmound, the other teams score less runs. The team that scores the most \nruns wins. This puts the team with the better pitching at the advantage\n(providing they can stop the opposing team from scoring runs). A low \nscoring game would clearly benefit the Braves. They should have many \nlow scoring games due to their excellent pitching and below average hitting.\nOn the flip side, if you had a starting lineup of great offensive players,\nI would be arguing that this team would not need great pitchers.\nThey would have an advantage because they could simply outscore their\nopponent. The name of the games is to win. Even Ray Knight knows that\nyou do this by putting more runs up on the scoreboard.\nAll I'm trying to say is that if you assemble the quality pitchers\nlike the Braves have, the offense doesn't need to be as strong.\n", "\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\tAs far as I know, a save opportunity is when it is 7th inning or\nbeyond, and the batter on deck can either tie or win the ball game.\n\tFor example If it is the bottom of the 8th inning and Clemens is\npithching. The Red Sox are leading 4-1 and Clemens has just givin up a hit. So,\nthere is a man on first, the batter, and the batter on deck could tie the game\nwith a homer. If Jeff Russel came in, (The Red Sox reliever), and finished the\ngame without allowing the tieing or losing run to score, he would get the save\nand Clemens would get the win. \n Thats how I beleive it works.", "Philadelphia 1 2 4--7\nBuffalo 0 3 1--4\nFirst period\n 1, Philadelphia, Recchi 52 (Galley, Lindros) 0:18.\nSecond period\n 2, Philadelphia, Hawgood 11 (Dineen, Eklund) pp, 2:15.\n 3, Philadelphia, Dineen 33 (McGill) sh, 5:40.\n 4, Buffalo, Barnaby 1 (Hawerchuk, Smehlik) pp, 7:48.\n 5, Buffalo, Wood 18 (LaFontaine, Ledyard) pp, 17:34.\n 6, Buffalo, Mogilny 75 (Hawerchuk, Carney) pp, 18:56.\nThird period\n 7, Philadelphia, Eklund 11 (Dineen, Beranek) 4:42.\n 8, Buffalo, Mogilny 76 (Errey, LaFontaine) 5:24.\n 9, Philadelphia, Dineen 34 (Brind'Amour) pp, 6:44.\n 10, Philadelphia, Dineen 35 (Brind'Amour, Galley) sh, 8:39.\n 11, Philadelphia, Acton 8 (Dineen, Brind'Amour) 19:48.\n\nPhiladelphia: 7 Power play: 5-2 Special goals: pp: 2 sh: 2 Total: 4\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nActon 1 0 1\nBeranek 0 1 1\nBrind'Amour 0 3 3\nDineen 3 3 6\nEklund 1 1 2\nGalley 0 2 2\nHawgood 1 0 1\nLindros 0 1 1\nMcGill 0 1 1\nRecchi 1 0 1\n\nBuffalo: 4 Power play: 10-3\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nBarnaby 1 0 1\nCarney 0 1 1\nErrey 0 1 1\nHawerchuk 0 2 2\nLaFontaine 0 2 2\nLedyard 0 1 1\nMogilny 2 0 2\nSmehlik 0 1 1\nWood 1 0 1\n\n-----------------------------------------\nMinnesota 1 1 1--3\nDetroit 0 2 3--5\nFirst period\n 1, Minnesota, McPhee 18 (Ludwig) 1:23.\nSecond period\n 2, Minnesota, Dahlen 34 (Courtnall, Gagner) pp, 0:31.\n 3, Detroit, Drake 18 (Howe, Ogrodnick) 9:14.\n 4, Detroit, Ysebaert 34 (Lidstrom, Howe) pp, 17:37.\nThird period\n 5, Detroit, Ciccarelli 41 (Coffey, Chiasson) pp, 0:32.\n 6, Detroit, Kennedy 19 (Burr, Probert) 3:42.\n 7, Detroit, Yzerman 58 (Ciccarelli, Gallant) 6:17.\n 8, Minnesota, Dahlen 35 (Courtnall, Gagner) 19:11.\n\nDetroit: 5 Power play: 4-2\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nBurr 0 1 1\nChiasson 0 1 1\nCiccarelli 1 1 2\nCoffey 0 1 1\nDrake 1 0 1\nGallant 0 1 1\nHowe 0 2 2\nKennedy 1 0 1\nLidstrom 0 1 1\nOgrodnick 0 1 1\nProbert 0 1 1\nYsebaert 1 0 1\nYzerman 1 0 1\n\nMinnesota: 3 Power play: 2-1\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nCourtnall 0 2 2\nDahlen 2 0 2\nGagner 0 2 2\nLudwig 0 1 1\nMcPhee 1 0 1\n\n-----------------------------------------\nEdmonton 0 0 0--0\nWinnipeg 1 2 0--3\nFirst period\n 1, Winnipeg, Shannon 20 (Steen, Davydov) pp, 2:08.\nSecond period\n 2, Winnipeg, Selanne 76 (Olausson) 5:25.\n 3, Winnipeg, Zhamnov 25 (Selanne) 19:42.\nThird period\n No scoring.\n\nWinnipeg: 3 Power play: 6-1\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nDavydov 0 1 1\nOlausson 0 1 1\nSelanne 1 1 2\nShannon 1 0 1\nSteen 0 1 1\nZhamnov 1 0 1\n\nEdmonton: 0 Power play: 3-0\nNo scoring\n\n-----------------------------------------\nToronto 1 1 0--2\nChicago 0 2 1--3\nFirst period\n 1, Toronto, Baumgartner 1 (unassisted) 18:40.\nSecond period\n 2, Chicago, Roenick 50 (Murphy, Chelios) 1:29.\n 3, Toronto, Andreychuk 55 (Mironov, Lefebvre) 13:22.\n 4, Chicago, Murphy 7 (Roenick, Chelios) pp, 19:05.\nThird period\n 5, Chicago, Matteau 15 (unassisted) 10:51.\nError: Power play goal mismatch. Assuming calc value.\nError: Team: Toronto Calc: 0 Read: 1\n\nChicago: 3 Power play: 7-1\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nChelios 0 2 2\nMatteau 1 0 1\nMurphy 1 1 2\nRoenick 1 1 2\n\nToronto: 2 Power play: 3-0\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nAndreychuk 1 0 1\nBaumgartner 1 0 1\nLefebvre 0 1 1\nMironov 0 1 1\n\n-----------------------------------------\nFirst period\n 1, St Louis, Shanahan 50 (Brown, Felsner) 10:44.\n 2, St Louis, Miller 23 (Bassen, Brown) 19:38.\n 3, St Louis, Bassen 8 (Zombo) 19:48.\nSecond period\n 4, St Louis, Bassen 9 (Hedican, Miller) 0:14.\n 5, St Louis, Miller 24 (Zombo, Hedican) 11:09.\n 6, Tampa Bay, Maltais 7(Hamrlik) 11:27.\n 7, Tampa Bay, Bergland 3 (Hervey, Gilhen) 17:16.\n 8, St Louis, Shanahan 51 (Emerson) 19:38.\nThird period\n 9, Tampa Bay, Creighton 19 (Bergland, Bergevin) 0:40.\n 10, Tampa Bay, Chambers 10 (Zamuner, Cole) 10:37.\n 11, Tampa Bay, Cole 12 (Beers, Bradley) 11:58.\n\nSt Louis: 6 Power play: 4-0\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nBassen 2 1 3\nBrown 0 2 2\nEmerson 0 1 1\nFelsner 0 1 1\nHedican 0 2 2\nMiller 2 1 3\nShanahan 2 0 2\nZombo 0 2 2\n\nTampa Bay: 5 Power play: 3-0\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nBeers 0 1 1\nBergevin 0 1 1\nBergland 1 1 2\nBradley 0 1 1\nChambers 1 0 1\nCole 1 1 2\nCreighton 1 0 1\nGilhen 0 1 1\nHamrlik 0 1 1\nHervey 0 1 1\nMaltais 1 0 1\nZamuner 0 1 1\n\n-----------------------------------------\nSan Jose 0 1 2--3\nCalgary 0 4 3--7\nFirst period\n No scoring.\nSecond period\n 1, San Jose, Garpenlov 22 (Odgers, Gaudreau) pp, 3:37.\n 2, Calgary, Nieuwendyk 38 (MacInnis, Suter) pp, 5:26.\n 3, Calgary, Ranheim 21 (Otto, Suter) 10:43.\n 4, Calgary, Yawney 1 (Nieuwendyk, Roberts) 11:26.\n 5, Calgary, Berube 4 (Paslawski, Skrudland) 13:45.\nThird period\n 6, San Jose, Wood 1 (Odgers, Kisio) 8:00.\n 7, Calgary, Reichel 40 (unassisted) 9:26.\n 8, Calgary, Roberts 38 (Musil, Paslawski) pp, 12:27.\n 9, San Jose, Kisio 26 (unassisted) 13:10.\n 10, Calgary, Paslawski 18 (Ashton, Stern) 16:16.\n\nCalgary: 7 Power play: 4-2\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nAshton 0 1 1\nBerube 1 0 1\nMacInnis 0 1 1\nMusil 0 1 1\nNieuwendyk 1 1 2\nOtto 0 1 1\nPaslawski 1 2 3\nRanheim 1 0 1\nReichel 1 0 1\nRoberts 1 1 2\nSkrudland 0 1 1\nStern 0 1 1\nSuter 0 2 2\nYawney 1 0 1\n\nSan Jose: 3 Power play: 3-1\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nGarpenlov 1 0 1\nGaudreau 0 1 1\nKisio 1 1 2\nOdgers 0 2 2\nWood 1 0 1\n\n-----------------------------------------\nVancouver 1 2 5--8\nLos Angeles 2 3 1--6\nFirst period\n 1, Los Angeles, Robitaille 63 (Gretzky, Sandstrom) 1:39.\n 2, Vancouver, Babych 3 (Craven, Nedved) pp, 9:43.\n 3, Los Angeles, Sandstrom 25 (Gretzky, Robitaille) 10:06.\nSecond period\n 4, Vancouver, Linden 32 (Ronning, Courtnall) pp, 0:54.\n 5, Vancouver, Ward 22 (Hunter, Nedved) 1:24.\n 6, Los Angeles, Gretzky 16 (Sandstrom, Robitaille) 6:57.\n 7, Los Angeles, Zhitnik 12 (Kurri, Robitaille) pp, 14:02.\n 8, Los Angeles, Millen 23 (Hardy) pp, 16:57.\nThird period\n 9, Vancouver, Ronning 27 (Dirk) 5:28.\n 10, Vancouver, Ronning 28 (Courtnall, Linden) pp, 11:15.\n 11, Vancouver, Linden 33 (Courtnall, Ronning) 11:27.\n 12, Los Angeles, Donnelly 29 (Millen, Granato) pp, 14:35.\n 13, Vancouver, Courtnall 31 (Ronning, Ratushny) 14:54.\n 14, Vancouver, Ronning 29 (Linden, Diduck) en, 18:47.\n\nVancouver: 8 Power play: 6-3 Special goals: pp: 3 en: 1 Total: 4\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nBabych 1 0 1\nCourtnall 1 3 4\nCraven 0 1 1\nDiduck 0 1 1\nDirk 0 1 1\nHunter 0 1 1\nLinden 2 2 4\nNedved 0 2 2\nRatushny 0 1 1\nRonning 3 3 6\nWard 1 0 1\n\nLos Angeles: 6 Power play: 10-3\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nDonnelly 1 0 1\nGranato 0 1 1\nGretzky 1 2 3\nHardy 0 1 1\nKurri 0 1 1\nMillen 1 1 2\nRobitaille 1 3 4\nSandstrom 1 2 3\nZhitnik 1 0 1\n", "My schedule is flexible so any games are candidates\nAC>(though I'd prefer to see Texas.)\n Hi Tony.I think that I might be able to help you out!The Rangers are\n here in Toronto Thursday July 8th through Sunday July 11th and\n tickets should not be hard to find if you order them far enough in\n advance.Although I don't have a ticket broker's telephone number off\n hand if you give me a couple of days I will be able to get a hold a=\n of a couple.The Blue Jays ticket info # is (416)341-1111 or if you\n want to order by credit card,call (416) 341-1234.If you let me\n know,when you want the tickets I can save you a possible long\n distance call.If all else fails I might be able to pull a few strings\n and get you a pair.Let me know whats happening.\n\nDrew Carley,Toronto Canada\n---\n þ DeLuxeý 1.25 #2177 þ Go away,or I shall taunt you a second time!", "\nThe major problem with this analysis is that it ignores age. Even if\nMorris were performing as well as Clemens right now, and were likely to\nthis season, nobody would trade Clemens for Morris straight up because\nClemens has more of his career left.", "AHL CALDER CUP PLAYOFF GAME(S) PLAYED ON 4/16\nProvidence 3\tSPRINGFIELD 2\t(OT)\t\nBaltimore 4\tBINGHAMTON 3\t\t\nUtica 3\t\tROCHESTER 2\t(OT)\t\nCape Breton 5\tFREDERICTON 2\t\t\n\nGAME(S) SCHEDULED FOR 4/17\nCapital District at Adirondack\t\t\nProvidence at Springfield\nBaltimore at Binghamton\nUtica at Rochester\t\t\t\nMoncton vs St John's at Halifax\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\nSERIES STATI (plural of status? :)\nAdirondack leads CDI, 1-0\nSpringfield leads Providence, 2-1\nBaltimore leads Binghamton 1-0\nUtica leads Rochester, 1-0\nSt John's leads Moncton, 1-0\nCape Breton tied w/Fredericton, 1-1\n\t\n=================================================\n=================================================\nFULL 1993 CALDER CUP PLAYOFF SCHEDULE AND RESULTS\t\nhome team in CAPS\t\t*=if necesary\n\nFIRST ROUND\t\t\t\t\t\nSpringfield Indians vs Providence Bruins\nGm 1:\tSpringfield 3\tPROVIDENCE 2\t\nGm 2:\tSpringfield 5\tPROVIDENCE 4\nGm 3:\tProvidence 3\tSPRINGFIELD 2\nGm 4:\t4/17\tProvidence at Springfield\nGm 5:\t4/22\tSpringfield at Providence\t\nGm 6:\t4/24\tProvidence at Springfield\t*\nGm 7:\t4/27\tSpringfield at Providence\t*\n\nCD Islanders vs Adirondack Red Wings\nGm 1:\tADIRONDACK 6\tCDI 2\nGm 2:\t4/17\tCDI at Adirondack\nGm 3:\t4/18\tAdirondack at CDI\nGm 4:\t4/21\tAdirondack at CDI\nGm 5:\t4/23\tCDI at Adirondack\t*\nGm 6:\t4/24\tAdirondack at CDI\t*\nGm 7:\t4/26\tCDI at Adirondack\t*\n\nBaltimore Skipjacks at Binghamton Rangers\nGm 1:\tBaltimore 4\tBINGHAMTON 3\t\nGm 2:\t4/17\tBaltimore at Binghamton\nGm 3:\t4/23\tBinghamton at Baltimore\nGm 4:\t4/24\tBinghamton at Baltimore\nGm 5:\t4/26\tBaltimore at Binghamton\t*\nGm 6:\t4/28\tBinghmaton at Baltimore\t*\nGm 7:\t4/30\tBaltimore at Binghamton\t*\n\t\t\nUtica Devils vs Rochester Americans\nGm 1:\tUtica 3\t\tRochester 2\t(OT)\nGm 2:\t4/17\tUtica at Rochester\nGm 3:\t4/20\tRochester at Utica\nGm 4:\t4/22\tRochester at Utica\nGm 5:\t4/24\tUtica at Rochester\t*\nGm 6:\t4/26\tRochester at Utica\t*\nGm 7:\t4/28\tUtica at Rochester\t*\n\nMoncton Hawks vs St John's Maple Leafs\nGm 1:\tSt John's 4\tMoncton 2\nGm 2:\t4/17\tMoncton vs St John's at Halifax\nGm 3:\t4/21\tSt John's at Moncton\nGm 4:\t4/23\tSt John's at Moncton\nGm 5:\t4/26\tMoncton vs St John's at Halifax\t*\nGm 6:\t4/28\tSt John's at Moncton\t\t*\nGm 7:\t4/30\tMoncton vs St John's at Halifax\t*\n\nCape Breton Oilers vs Fredericton Canadiens\nGm 1:\tFREDERICTON 4\tCape Breton 3\t(2OT)\nGm 2:\tCape Breton 5\tFREDERICTON 2\nGm 3:\t4/20\tFredericton at Cape Breton\nGm 4:\t4/22\tFredericton at Cape Breton\nGm 5:\t4/24\tCape Breton at Fredericton\t\nGm 6:\t4/26\tFredericton at Cape Breton\t*\nGm 7:\t4/28\tCape Breton at Fredericton\t*", "\nHe's a shortstop by training, but he's been at second (mostly) and third\nthis year for the Expos.", "\nIt's always possible, but if this is the case, I think that there is some\nblatant discrimination going on here. Clearly Selig is allowing the opposition\nto use pre-1920 baseballs against the Dodgers.\n \n\nAnd almost more impressive was that he also got an intentional walk.\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n We will stretch no farm animal beyond its natural length\n\n paula@koufax.cv.hp.com Paul Andresen Hewlett-Packard (503)-750-3511", "\nRight. Most definitely.\n\n\nThis may be the root of the confusion...\n\nPlease consider the following hypothetical with an open mind. Note\nthat I am *not* (yet) saying that it has anything to do with the\nquestion at hand.\n\nSuppose we have a simplified Lotto game. You pick a number from 1-10\nand win if that number is drawn. Suppose we have a large population\nof people who play this game every week.\n\nIn the first year of the game, approximately 1/4 of the population\nwill win 7 or more times.\n\nIn the second year of the game, 1/4 of those 7-time winners will again\nbe 7-time winners.\n\nIn the third year of the game, 1/4 of those who won 7 or more times in\neach of the first two years will win 7 again.\n\nSuppose I started with 1024 people in my population. After three\nyears, I have 32 people who have consistently, in each of the last\nthree years, won 140% or more the number of times expected.\n\nDo we expect them to be big winners in the fourth year of the game?\nNo. Because we know there is no skill involved. Nothing about these\n\"consistent winners\" can influence their chances of winning. But\nsuppose we *don't* know whether or not there is a chance that skill\nmight be involved. Perhaps some of the people in our population are\npsychic, or something. How would we test this hypothesis?\n\nWe can look for correlations in the population. Now most of the\npopulation will show zero correlation. But our psychics should show a\nhigh positive correlation (even if they aren't very good psychics,\nthey should still manage to win 7 or more times most years). Net\nresult? A small positive correlation over the entire population.\n\n\nWell, zero correlation is zero correlation. You mention that Sabo has\nhit poorly in the clutch over the last 3(?) years. But if we look at\nthe past, we find that clutch patterns are just as likely to reverse\nas they are to remain consistent. The length of the streak doesn't\nseem to make a difference to the probability that the player will be\nclutch or choke the next year. Is there any reason to expect *this*\nstreak to be different from past streaks?\n\nNow if it were true that \"75% of all three-year streaks remained true\nto form\", then we might have something useful. But then we wouldn't\nhave zero correlation. Instead we have \"50% of all three-year streaks\nremain true to form, and 50% of all three-year streaks reverse\". You\nlook at those numbers and say \"three year choke streak implies more\nlikely to choke this year\". But it would be equally valid to look at\nthose numbers and say \"three year choke streak implies more likely to\nbe clutch this year\", since the probabilities are split 50-50 each\nway.\n\n\nThen we would have something useful. And we would also have a\npositive correlation. But for every individual that exhibits such a\npattern and holds true, there is another who exhibits such a pattern\nand then reverses.", "Playoff leaders as of April 19, 1993\n\n Player Team GP G A Pts +/- PIM\n\n M.Lemieux PIT 1 2 2 4 0 0\n Juneau BOS 1 1 3 4 0 0\n Noonan CHI 1 3 0 3 0 0\n Mogilny BUF 1 2 1 3 0 0\n Neely BOS 1 2 1 3 0 0\n Brown STL 1 1 2 3 0 0\n Jagr PIT 1 1 2 3 0 0\n Oates BOS 1 0 3 3 0 0\n Carson LA 1 2 0 2 0 0\n Hunter WAS 1 2 0 2 0 0\n Stevens NJ 1 2 0 2 0 0\n Cullen TOR 1 1 1 2 0 0\n Hull STL 1 1 1 2 0 0\n Khristich WAS 1 1 1 2 0 0\n Linden VAN 1 1 1 2 0 0\n Racine DET 1 1 1 2 0 0\n Shanahan STL 1 1 1 2 0 0\n Sydor LA 1 1 1 2 0 0\n Yzerman DET 1 1 1 2 0 0\n Bure VAN 1 0 2 2 0 0\n Coffey DET 1 0 2 2 0 0\n Drake DET 1 0 2 2 0 0\n Emerson STL 1 0 2 2 0 0\n G.Courtnall VAN 1 0 2 2 0 0\n Johansson WAS 1 0 2 2 0 0\n Lapointe QUE 1 0 2 2 0 0\n Niedermayer NJ 1 0 2 2 0 0\n Ramsey PIT 1 0 2 2 0 0\n Sandstrom LA 1 0 2 2 0 0\n Smehlik BUF 1 0 2 2 0 0\n Stevens PIT 1 0 2 2 0 0\n Adams VAN 1 1 0 1 0 0\n Barr NJ 1 1 0 1 0 0\n Bellows MON 1 1 0 1 0 0\n Burr DET 1 1 0 1 0 0\n Chiasson DET 1 1 0 1 0 0\n Craven VAN 1 1 0 1 0 0\n Dahlquist CAL 1 1 0 1 0 0\n Dionne MON 1 1 0 1 0 0\n Felsner STL 1 1 0 1 0 0\n Ferraro NYI 1 1 0 1 0 0\n Francis PIT 1 1 0 1 0 0\n Gilmour TOR 1 1 0 1 0 0\n Hannan BUF 1 1 0 1 0 0\n Heinze BOS 1 1 0 1 0 0\n Howe DET 1 1 0 1 0 0\n Huddy LA 1 1 0 1 0 0\n King WIN 1 1 0 1 0 0\n LaFontaine BUF 1 1 0 1 0 0\n Lefebvre TOR 1 1 0 1 0 0\n McSorley LA 1 1 0 1 0 0\n Millen LA 1 1 0 1 0 0\n Ronning VAN 1 1 0 1 0 0\n Rucinsky QUE 1 1 0 1 0 0\n Sakic QUE 1 1 0 1 0 0\n Sheppard DET 1 1 0 1 0 0\n Steen WIN 1 1 0 1 0 0\n Suter CAL 1 1 0 1 0 0\n Sweeney BUF 1 1 0 1 0 0\n Tipett PIT 1 1 0 1 0 0\n Yawney CAL 1 1 0 1 0 0\n Young QUE 1 1 0 1 0 0\n Barnes WIN 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Borschevsky TOR 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Brunet MON 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Chelios CHI 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Ciccarelli DET 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Clark TOR 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Desjardins MON 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Dipietro MON 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Donnelly LA 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Driver NJ 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Duchesne QUE 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Ellett TOR 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Elynuik WAS 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Flatley NYI 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Fleury CAL 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Gallant DET 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Gill TOR 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Granato LA 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Gretzky LA 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Guerin NJ 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Hawerchuk BUF 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Holik NJ 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Housley WIN 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Janney STL 1 0 1 1 0 0\n K.Brown CHI 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Khmylev BUF 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Krygier WAS 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Larmer CHI 1 0 1 1 0 0\n MacInnis CAL 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Matteau CHI 1 0 1 1 0 0\n McEachern PIT 1 0 1 1 0 0\n McLean VAN 1 0 1 1 0 0\n McRae STL 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Mullen PIT 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Muller MON 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Murphy PIT 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Murzyn VAN 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Otto CAL 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Pearson TOR 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Pivonka WAS 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Primeau DET 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Probert DET 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Reichel CAL 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Ricci QUE 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Robitaille LA 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Roenick CHI 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Samuelsson PIT 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Semak NJ 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Shannon WIN 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Shuchuk LA 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Sundin QUE 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Sutter CHI 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Taylor LA 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Tocchet PIT 1 0 1 1 0 0\n Vaske NYI 1 0 1 1 0 0\n-- ", "\nWalt Weiss tripled just barely inside the right field line and into the\ncorner, driving in Santiago and Conine. These were the first two\nRBIs. The third came later when Weiss was knocked in.\n", "\nQuestion:\nIf a team uses 40 players in a season do you merely divide the total +/-\nby 40? If so, a player who plays in only 1 game is considered equally\nvaluable as a player who plays in all of them.\n\n\nSince the standard deviation for each team is different, I am unsure how \n\"transferable\" between teams that these stats are. Shouldn't the average\nstandard deviation in the league be used?\n\nI am interested in seeing each method.\nBut I still think that mine is the best. If for no other reason than familiarity.", "\nThe New York talk shows are just awful in this regard. People are constantly\ncalling WFAN and WABC with (stuff like) \"I was thinking, why don't the Yankees\ntrade Kaminicki and Silvestri to Seattle for Ken Griffey Jr and Randy Johnson,\nthat would really help the team\" or \"Do you think the Yankees can get Roger \nClemens?\". The show hosts are pretty good about handling these guys, but it's\nstill annoying.\n\nThe best one was at the end of one show, a caller started out with \"I was \nthinking, why don't the Yankees trade for...\" and then the host hung up on\nhim. I cheered!", "I forgot to mention that the stats are for games through 4/20.", "They \nthree \nmore \ndivision.\n\nJason, I am going to a yankee game wed night at cleveland stadium. I am so \nhappy.\n\n\nBut Cleveland is a very bad team who lost severalrs. They were an up and \ncoming team, now they are just a sad excuse for a better average.\n\n", "\nI've never seen a game where one player has committed 5\npenalties. Something like this would require more attention by\nthe referee.\n\n\nBut you're creating a scoring opportunity where there might not\nhave been one before. I can see the relationship between free\nthrows awarded after a certain number of fouls, but it's\nobviously easier to score in basketball, there are more\nopportunities. If a basketball team scores 100 points, that's\nat least fifty chances made. The average number of shots taken\nby each team in a hockey game (and this is a total guess) is\nprobably around 40, and a team is lucky to capitalize on maybe\n5 of them. You have some good ideas concerning the other\npenalties, but I think that a player should be awarded a\npenalty shot only when they had a chance to score and was\ninterfered with.\n\nAlso, later in the post, you talked about how boring the NBA\ngame you attended was, that play was stopped too often.\nWouldn't your penalty shot rule take up more time during a\nhockey game?", "\nAfter reading my local paper today, I found out that the Phillies\nstarted the 1964 season at 10-2. I am not as old as 1964, but I've\nheard many talk about the serious choke job the Phillies did that\nseason. They were ahead of the Cardinals by 15 games that season in\nmid-August. They managed to lose a bunch from then on and the\nCardinals took the division. 15!!! games ahead and lost it.... I\nhope this season is MUCH different.\n\n", "\nWow! You really know how to hurt a guy. Guess I shouldn't bother watching\nany more games. It's already been decided. :^)\n\nluigi\n", "\nBrad McCrimmon was the captain of the Flames when he was traded to Detroit\nfollowing the 1989-90 season. This was during the off-season though.\n\nThere's countless examples of captains being traded, I'm sure.", "I agree! Rob Shick sucks big time. He did the same thing last night's game \nbetween Boston & Buffalo.\n", "\n\n\n First of all I think when ESPN covers the game they do a wonderful job, but\n last night I felt the same way. I really hate watching Devils/Pens game. \n Everyone knows that Devils are going to get their ass kicked, why even \n bother showing them. I was so bored and these ESPN people don't seem to have\n any brain. After the Sundays and last night games, they are still going to \n show Devils/Pens on THU and SUN. WHat the hell are they thinking about? I \n think if they keep it up like this NHL will never get a major network contract.\n I'd rather see Caps/Isls game which is more exciting. \n\n Now I just hope all baseball games are rained out on ESPN so atleast\n we can get diffrent hockey games. \n\n \n\n", "Oops! I came across this file from last year. Thought you might\nenjoy some of these thoughts. The predictions were made on the\ndate indicated. They are largely out of order.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nJune 11, 1992\ntedward@cs.cornell.edu (ME!)\n\n\nYou all know how things turned out. The Orioles, Red Sox, and Yankees\nall disappeared. The Jays and Tigers continued at essentially the\nexpected pace. The Brewers and Indians cranked in the second half.\n\nThe Rangers predictably took a dive. That shouldn't have surprised\nanybody. Meanwhile, as predicted, the Mariners dropped behind the\nAngels and Royals. They clearly didn't deserve the 22-33 record in\nJune. The White Sox and A's upped their game a bit, while the Twins\ndropped off a little. But for the most part things were as expected.\n\nOkay, so there were a few blatant errors. But for a predictive\ncalculation, I thought this did pretty well.\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nFrom CAVGEOE@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu Tue Mar 31 16:36:34 1992\n\nHm. Pete Smith made the rotation instead of Mercker. And Bielecki\nwasn't released until the end of the year. I won't comment on the\nbullpen. (Jeff Reardon??? :-)\n\n\nRight on Blauser. Wrong on Bream and Mitchell. A bit early on\nLonnie, as with Bielecki. Didn't pick Sanders. (Did anybody? :-)\n\n\nThree of them went, right? Showalter is still around (and likely to\nstick, it seems).\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n\nFrom mattel.Auto-trol.COM!mattel@auto-trol.com Tue Mar 31 17:04:22 1992\n\nNope! They won the division, and so kept him for a shot at the\nplayoffs.\n\n\n:-) Well, they didn't finish last.\n\n\nGot that one right.\n\n\nNope.\n\n\nI guess this is why you picked the Mets to win, huh?\n\n\nTsk Tsk. Not nice to predict something like this.\n\n\nYou got that right!\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nAnd my response...\n\n\nOkay, so the Mets finished fifth. But I got the Pirates and Expos\nright!\n\n\nFirst half? Dead on! Second half? Ummm.... I'm a Sox fan, go easy\non me!\n\n\nSo I got my predictions for Gooden and Saberhagen reversed. :-) I\nwas at least *close*, and was right about Jefferies. (Though I don't\nknow. HAS WFAN criticized the Jefferies trade?)\n\n\nClose. No cigar.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n\nSome predictions need no introduction!\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n\nSometimes us statheads get lucky. Grace *didn't* hit behind Dawson\nthe entire season, but he also finished with only 79 RBIs.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n\nNope. He slowed down, and the injury finished him off. Didn't\neven reach 50. But a ballsy prediction, nonetheless.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nFrom ECAXRON@MARS.LERC.NASA.GOV Thu May 21 16:42:21 1992\n\nThe Orioles finished seven games out. None of them won 20 (though\nMussina might have had a chance, with better relief and more starts).\n\n\nExcept for the Brewers (who you probably forgot), you were right! The\nrest of the division was thoroughly mediocre. The Yankees and Indians\n\"led\" with 76 wins, the Red Sox \"trailed\" with 73 wins. None were\nhorrible, but four were five or more games below .500.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nFrom: djohnson@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (David Johnson)\nDate: Thu, 6 Aug 1992 15:47:30 GMT\n\n\nYou win!\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nFrom king@cogsci.UCSD.EDU Thu Nov 14 14:33:45 1991\n\nYou were right!\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nFrom stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu Fri Sep 13 01:15:52 1991\n\nHe had 211 IP, but didn't win the Cy Young. Maddux surprised all.\n\n\nI don't think I want to wait that long. But they won 89 games last\nyear, and they were fifth in the league in ERA. Not a bad start.\n\n\nLooks like it. He wasn't bad last year, just too consistent to be an\nace. So far this year looks like more of the same.\n\n\nI honestly can't say. Did they get rid of him? Their BB totals were\ndown last year.\n\n\nI just don't think he's that good....\n\n\n:-) So far, so good. I'm *definitely* not waiting to check this one.\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nFrom panix!spira@cmcl2.NYU.EDU Fri Sep 13 12:38:08 1991\n\nCurrent plans seem to be to use Quantrill in long relief. He has a\nrubber arm and unusual delivery. He might be decent in that role.\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nFrom lyle@ecn.purdue.edu Sat Sep 14 01:51:28 1991\n\nWrong on all of the above. (Hal Morris????) \n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nAnd my favorites!\n\nFrom tedward Sun Oct 20 23:52:57 1991\n\nBelle hit 34 HR last year, walking 52 times (but five of those were\nintentional!). Okay, so I exaggerate. But I *might* have been right.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nFrom trn@strdev.jhuapl.edu Tue Mar 31 15:25:28 1992\n\nHow much did Cal sign for? When did he sign? If I remember\ncorrectly, he got a rather hefty contract despite a weak season.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nAnd finally....\n\nFrom jpalmer@uwovax.uwo.ca Thu Sep 12 10:35:58 1991\n\nSnyder is still in SF. Acker is gone??\n\n\nThey aren't in the majors.\n\n\nNever heard of him.\n\n\nI don't *think* they are in the majors.\n\n\nDunno what happened to him.\n\n\nIf he's still around, he's stuck in the minors.\n\n\nHm. With Raines out, Bo looks to get a lot of PT.\n\n\n:-)\n\n\nHm.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------", "\n\n\n\nThere are many teams in the NHL who have taken a liking to Russian players.\nThe \"whole Russian strategy\" is not specific to Detroit or to Devellano,\nwho was GM before Murray. What the previous GM also did was to trade \naway several players who have gone on to do well with other teams, most\nnotably (in my memory) Murray Craven, who had a few very good years with\nPhilly after leaving here. Also, it's not the volume of trades that will \nnecessarily improve a team, but the quality of them. Trading Adam Oates\nfor Bernie Federko was just plain stupid, even if Federko used to be a \ngreat player at one time. Most of Murray's trades have worked significantly\nto the Wings' advantage, with those that didn't being soured mainly by \ninjury to the players involved (such as Troy Crowder, who suffered back\nproblems from which he never really recovered).\n\nPut Scotty Bowman, Pat Burns, or any of the other better coaches in the \nleague behind the bench of this Detroit team, and they could beat anybody.", "Let's not forget Al Michaels, of \"Do you believe in miracles?\" fame.", "\nExcellent point. I hope to God that Ted Simmons doesn't get the weird\nidea of trading for the guy. And if he does, he had better not\ninclude Jeff King in the deal. Oh God--what if he traded Zane Smith\nand Jeff King for Vaughn and Greg Blosser? It would be worse than The\nNichols Curse!\n\nHmm, I guess that doesn't sound sincere enough. Oh well, at least I\ntried...", "Would someone please give me the address for Texas Ranger\nticket orders. Thanks very much.", "\nYou're right: Thomas, Gonzalez, Sheffield, and Griffey don't even begin\nto compare with Ripken, Boggs, and Gwynn, so no wonder Alomar gets so\nmuch attention.\n\nSandberg got no attention his rookie year because his rookie year was\nterrible. So was his sophomore year.\n\nNational League pitchers are \"much better pitchers\"? That certainly explains\nSheffield's 1993, hm? Are you confusing \"have ERA's that are 0.40 lower\nbecause they don't face DH's\" with \"much better\"?", "Anyone have any idea how to get Japanese League stats regularly in the US?\n\n- matt\n\nwall@cc.swarthmore.edu\n\n\n\nMatt Wall * wall@cc.swarthmore.edu * Hey, I gotta job here, OK?", "\n\n\nNo, and in fact, that was Ferreira's original strategy, which the troika\nproceeded to simply continue to implement. There wasn't exactly a radical\nshift in policy when he was ousted (something people seem to forget). The\nonly real question is whether they did it as well as Ferreira could have if\nhe stayed, or whether the basic strategy was flawed (since Ferreira has been\nquoated as saying he's going to do something different in Anaheim with the\nDucks, my guess is that it wasn't as good in practice as it was on paper,\nand he's tweaking it a bit second time around). One also has to wonder\nwhether the strategy would have been a lot better if we hadn't had those\ninjuries, and whether we're complaining about the weather because an\nearthquake collapsed the root cellar.\n\n\nLet's also NOT FORGET that Ferreira came *THIS* close to trading Kelly\nKisio, which, if the rumors I've heard are true, was over the strong\nobjections of other aspects of Shark management and probably had a lot to do\nwith both his ouster and the three-headed, consensus oriented GM.\n\nImagine, for a second, where the Sharks would be today if that fax machine\nhadn't jammed.\n\n\nEspecially an unhappy player that isn't playing as well because of it. Not\nthat I'd accuse Mullen of tanking, but his motivation simply wasn't there,\nand that kind of thing can affect the team.\n\n\n\n\nExactly. At the time they let Skriko go, we hadn't yet had the major injury\nbugs that killed us later. I'd much rather have Skriko around than someone\nlike Dean Kolstad, but at that point, that wasn't the choice. And since the\nchoice was more one of Skriko vs. someone like John Carter, I think the\nright choice was made for that time period.\n", "How do you beat the Penguins?\n\n\nCrash the team plane.\n", "I have one round-trip ticket good for travel between USA or Canada and\nEurope, Hawaii, Latin America, or the Caribbean. It is fully transferable \nand can be used originating here or there.\n\nI had intended to use it to visit my grandfather who was sick, but he died \nbefore I got there so I have no use for it now.\n\nI'm looking for $500 or best offer, but act fast it will be gone on April 15\nno matter what.", "Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey\nSubject: Re: NHL team in Milwaukee\nSummary: \nExpires: \nSender: \nDistribution: \nOrganization: Marquette University - Department MSCS\nKeywords: \n\n\nLloyd Pettit married into Allen-Bradley Corp. (ab.com) family and owns the\nAdmirals. He donated the Bradley Center and the new Pettit National Ice\nCenter.\n\n\nThis is not the way I have heard it. See, Lloyd (as he is affectionately\nreferred to by Milwaukeeans and Bob Uecker) bought the Bradley Center *TO* get\nthe NHL to come here.\n\n\nYeah, the Bucks, the Milwaukee Wave (soccer), the Admirals, the Marquette\nWarriors, concerts and a bunch of other things...", "\n\n\n\nI would have to say that the \"greatest philosopher\" title would have to\ngo to Plato since the whole enterprise of philosophy was essentially\ndefined by him. Although he got most of his answers wrong, he did \ndefinitively identify what the important questions are. I think it\nwas Descartes who said that \"All philosophy is just a footnote to Plato.\"\n\nIf I were to choose which philosopher made the most important advances\nin human knowledge over his lifetime, that's simple...it is Aristotle.\nThis is so much the case that many simply refer to him as \"the philosopher\".\n\nRegarding Nietzsche, he's one of the most entertaining, although since his\nideas were so fragmented (and since his life was cut short) it is doubtful\nthat his influence as a philosopher is likely to be very extensive 500 years\nfrom now. They'll probably still be reading him in 500 years though.\n\nAs for \"modern\" philosophers, I would have to say that Kant was the most\ninfluential since he had such a strong influence on almost everyone who\ncame after him (and unfortunately, they maintained his errors and \namplified them over time).\n\nI would say that the most influential \"american\" philosopher would have to\nbe Dewey.\n\nBut as to the question of what philosopher will be most highly regarded in\n500 years, it may very well be Ayn Rand (who in every important respect\nwas \"American\", but was born in Russia). But I guess that remains to be seen.", "\n\n\n\n\n\nAs one who was born in Quebec and worked in Montreal, I feel I must\ndefend the reputation of McGill University. It is a fine, old,\ncreditable institution of higher learning.\n\nThus, I can only assume that some under graduate student left his/her\nterminal on-line and the janitor has been getting access to it.", "\nThis is the price hockey fans have to pay for the mistake of leaving\nESPN 5 or 6 years ago...it will take time to correct for that mistake.\n\nBut returning to ESPN was the correct decision last year...by next\ntime, we may have the potential for Sportschannel and ESPN to really\ncompete to offer better coverage and be forced to deliver on it.", "\nBut why would you want to use RBI? RBI is an attempt to measure is some\ncombination of clutch hitting and power hitting. If you believe in\nclutch hitting, then look at how the guy hit with RISP. If you want to\nsee how good of a slugger he is, then look at his slugging average. \n\nIn terms of evaluating players, RBI totals are better than nothing. But\nwhy use them when so many better stats are out there?\n", "\nmuch crap deleted\n\n\nDEAD WRONG! Last time I checked, Jim Fregosi was still managing the\nPhillies, and doing quite a fine job thank you...best record in\nbaseball at 8-1\n\nMY PREDICTION FOR 1993:\nJim Fregosi will win manager of the year in the NL", "At the Lester Patrick Awards lunch, Bill Torrey mentioned that one of his\noptions next season is to be president of the Miami team, with Bob Clarke\nworking for him. At the same dinner, Clarke said that his worst mistake\nin Philadelphia was letting Mike Keenan go -- in retrospect, almost all\nplayers came realize that Keenan knew what it took to win. Rumours are\nnow circulating that Keenan will be back with the Flyers.\n\nNick Polano is sick of being a scapegoat for the schedule made for the\nRed Wings; After all, Bryan Murray approved it.\n\nGerry Meehan and John Muckler are worried over the Sabres' prospects;\nAssistant Don Lever says that the Sabres have to get their share now,\nbecause a Quebec dynasty is emerging ...\n\nThe Mighty Ducks have declared that they will not throw money around\nloosely to buy a team.\n\nOilers coach Ted Green remarked that \"There some guys around who can\nfill Tie Domi's skates, but none who can fill his helmet.\"\n\nSenators' Andrew McBain told off a security guard at Chicago Stadium\nwho warned him of the stairs leading down to the locker room; McBain\nmouthed off at him, after all being a seasoned professional ... and\ntumbled down the entire steep flight.\n\ngld", "Two years ago Mark Messier appeared on David Letterman the summer he signed wit\nh the Rangers. I remember he and Mike Gartner taking slapshots at the camera,\n one finally was a bullseye and the screen went blank. It was funny if you saw\n it, I guess.\n", "Hi all,\n\nDue to living in the Bay Area, I as unable to see Vancouver's victory over\nthe Jets last night. I know the score, but that rarely describes the game.\nCould someone please post a brief sonapsis (sp?) of waht happened. How well\ndid each team play? Were the cannucks deserving of the victory?\n\nAlso, could some kind soul please email me the end of season, individual\nplayer stats?\n\nGreg", "\nI'm familiar with the telethon situation (an individual on CompuServe\nwas also victimized and was equally pissed). That was a local\ntelevision station contract which could not be broken. For that item,\nI strongly suggest you call that affiliate and vent your anger on\nthem. (Supposedly one station had told my friend that they have\nreceived hundreds of angry calls which will translate into far less\nincentive to pre-empt hockey telecasts in future. The contract was\nwritten when the pathetic WLAF was in that time slot.)", "Were they palying football or baseball in Detroit on Saturday? From looking\nat the school, some people may think it was football. Between two games this\nweek, the Tigers scored 40 runs!!!! The offense can carry them, I hope the\npitching will hold out. I was at Camden Yards yesterday, everytime I looked\nup the score was getting higher. What a great site it was to see the Tigers\nkicking butt while enjoying a game at Camden Yards. GO TIGERS AND GO TONY\nPHILLIPS!!!!!!!!\n", "Just curious if anyone has started to standout early in the season in the\nBB DDD this year. I expect the Phillies staff, while getting the wins,\nwould have to rank up there. Luis Gonzalez and Derrick May are among\nthe early league leaders, and all 6 of their bombs have come at the\nPhils' expense. Neither of them have exactly been know for their tater\nprowess in the past. \n\nHow have the Rockies been early? I know Mile High has produced a ton of \nruns, but is it the launching pad everyone expected yet? \n\nA concerned fan of the BB DDD,", "\nThe only way to change ESPN's thinking, if it is even possible, is to complain\nto them directly. Anyone know there telephone # in Bristol, Ct? \n\nI do find it hard to believe that ESPN doesn't think viewers will simply\nchange the channel from a boring game....I know I did. And then, when\nthey didn't show the NYI-Wash overtime(s), I was livid! If I wanted\nto watch baseball, I could have turned on the Phillies-Padres extra\ninning game....instead, I went to bed angry......I boycotted ESPN's\nmorning Sportscenter today, I was still so incensed.\n\nMy wife says I shouldn't go to bed angry, but last nite.........GRRRRRRR!\n\n ", "\nKovalev is too talented a player to play for Roger Nielson...Roger needs\nplayers who can't think for themselves and can only skate in straight\nlines up and down the ice. Dudley and Nielson are the only two coaches\nbad enough in the league to take talents like Mogilny and Kovalev and\nnot know how to turn them into Bure and Selanne.\n\n\nGet Muckler as coach, and Kovalev will look like Mogilny.\n\nThe trouble with the Rangers is that Neil Smith went out and got\nplayers like Messier, Kovalev, and Graves who have been schooled in\ntaking the game to their opponent and attacking, while hiring coaches\nwho are interested in \"rope-a-dope\" strategies. If you want the\nRoger Nielsons of the world to be your coach you don't go out and\nget a Mark Messier, who is an old dog who can't learn new tricks\nfrom a known loser, and you don't waste your draft picks on players\nlike Kovalev.\n\nGerald", "...\n[shameless woofing deleted]\n\nOn behalf of the rest of us Tiger fans out here, I appoligize for this \nshameless woofing. We try to keep it to a minimum, but we did WIN A GAME\nthe other day, so sometimes it's hard to control. see: Phillies Fans", "So, which one will officially be the end of the world? ;)\n\nI can see the end of the WS now:\n\"Well folks, here it is. Bottom of the ninth; bases loaded; Full count on\nSandberg in this 1-1 game. Clemens winds, heres the pitch. Swung on and it is a \nline drive to center. Zupcic moves to his left. He's there and.....\n*****ZOT******\n", "\nThis comes up periodically, and I just don't get it. Take, for example, Mark\nMcGwire. He walked 90 times in 1993. If that's not a potential great example\nof what you're talking about then I don't know what is. Now let's look at\nwhat happens when McGwire doesn't walk:\n 75% of the time he made an out.\n 10% of the time he hit a single.\n 5% of the time he hit a double.\n 10% of the time he hit a homer.\nNow, you're pitching against McGwire. Would you trade 20 walks for 2 homers,\n1 double, 2 singles, and 15 outs? I would. Why give him the base when you\ncan get him out 3 times out of 4?\nThen there are guys like Alex Cole, who has a career .363 OBP even\nthough he's never had a batting average over .300 (he did hit .300 in\n227 AB in 1990) or hit a single home run. Yep, that's right, he's\n*never* hit a homer in 916 AB's through the end of 1992. Who'd be\nafraid to throw a strike to him?\n\n Mike Jones | AIX High-End Development | mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com", "Dunno about Miller.\n\nIf you mean Scott Erickson, currently the reigning Twins Least Consistent\nGood Player, he pulled a muscle in the neighborhood of the rib cage that\nmade it essentially impossible for him to pitch temporarily, and is\nexpected back on the mound Sunday.", "\n\tNo, no no. The Ack man is apparently an alien life-form, much\nlike the pod people from planet Mars, who can take on any form (the\nability remains the same, however). The Ack-people have been spotted on\nmany teams to date, but it appears that the Orioles staff (mentioned\nabove) and the Expos bullpen (Barnes, Walton, Fassero, Gardiner and\nRojas) have been the prime target. Apparently John Wetteland was roughed\nup by the Ack-people during spring training due to the fact that his\nsystem rejected the takeover, and has been on the DL ever since. Contact\nthe authorities! This evil plot must be stopped! (the Ack-people can\nkeep Jack Morris and Juan Guzman, though. I enjoy watching Toronto fans\nsuffer too much to want these guys returned to normal ;-)\n\nScot.\n\n\n-- \n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nScot Hughes | Department of Chemical Engineering | Expos in '93!\nfalcon@cs.mcgill.ca| McGill University, Montreal, Quebec| {witty saying here}", "Here are the final point totals for players chosen in the USENET Hockey Draft.\nNote that only 114 players scored more than 55 points (the minimum cost)\nalthough 254 different players were chosen.\n\n\t- Andrew\n\nPoints\tTeam\tPlayer\n160\tPIT\tMario_Lemieux\n148\tBUF\tPat_LaFontaine\n142\tBOS\tAdam_Oates\n137\tDET\tSteve_Yzerman\n132\tWPG\tTeemu_Selanne\n132\tNYI\tPierre_Turgeon\n127\tBUF\tAlexander_Mogilny\n127\tTOR\tDoug_Gilmour\n125\tLA\tLuc_Robitaille\n123\tPHI\tMark_Recchi\n114\tQUE\tMats_Sundin\n111\tPIT\tKevin_Stevens\n110\tVAN\tPavel_Bure\n109\tPIT\tRick_Tocchet\n107\tCHI\tJeremy_Roenick\n106\tSTL\tCraig_Janney\n105\tQUE\tJoe_Sakic\n102\tBOS\tJoe_Juneau\n101\tSTL\tBrett_Hull\n100\tCGY\tTheoren_Fleury\n100\tPIT\tRon_Francis\n99\tTOR\tDave_Andreychuk\n97\tMTL\tVincent_Damphousse\n97\tDET\tDino_Ciccarelli\n97\tWPG\tPhil_Housley\n96\tBUF\tDale_Hawerchuk\n94\tSTL\tBrendan_Shanahan\n94\tMTL\tKirk_Muller\n94\tPIT\tJaromir_Jagr\n93\tMIN\tMike_Modano\n91\tNYR\tMark_Messier\n89\tHFD\tGeoff_Sanderson\n88\tMTL\tBrian_Bellows\n88\tCGY\tRobert_Reichel\n87\tLA\tJari_Kurri\n87\tNYI\tSteve_Thomas\n87\tDET\tSergei_Fedorov\n87\tDET\tPaul_Coffey\n86\tTB\tBrian_Bradley\n86\tPHI\tRod_Brind'Amour\n85\tWSH\tPeter_Bondra\n85\tPIT\tLarry_Murphy\n85\tHFD\tAndrew_Cassels\n85\tVAN\tCliff_Ronning\n82\tWSH\tMike_Ridley\n82\tLA\tTony_Granato\n82\tQUE\tSteve_Duchesne\n82\tHFD\tPat_Verbeek\n82\tBOS\tRay_Bourque\n81\tCGY\tGary_Suter\n81\tNJ\tClaude_Lemieux\n80\tMTL\tStephan_Lebeau\n79\tNJ\tAlexander_Semak\n79\tWSH\tKevin_Hatcher\n79\tMIN\tRuss_Courtnall\n79\tWSH\tDale_Hunter\n78\tQUE\tMike_Ricci\n78\tSJ\tKelly_Kisio\n78\tSTL\tJeff_Brown\n77\tQUE\tOwen_Nolan\n77\tVAN\tMurray_Craven\n77\tVAN\tGeoff_Courtnall\n76\tNYR\tTony_Amonte\n76\tNYI\tDerek_King\n76\tMIN\tDave_Gagner\n75\tPHI\tEric_Lindros\n75\tCGY\tJoe_Nieuwendyk\n75\tNYI\tBenoit_Hogue\n74\tTOR\tNikolai_Borschevsky\n74\tWSH\tMichal_Pivonka\n74\tMIN\tUlf_Dahlen\n73\tLA\tJimmy_Carson\n73\tNJ\tStephane_Richer\n73\tCHI\tChris_Chelios\n73\tSTL\tNelson_Emerson\n72\tWPG\tAlexei_Zhamnov\n72\tBOS\tDmitri_Kvartalnov\n72\tVAN\tTrevor_Linden\n72\tWPG\tThomas_Steen\n71\tVAN\tPetr_Nedved\n70\tPIT\tJoe_Mullen\n70\tCHI\tSteve_Larmer\n69\tLA\tMike_Donnelly\n68\tQUE\tAndrei_Kovalenko\n68\tNYR\tMike_Gartner\n67\tWSH\tDmitri_Khristich\n66\tWSH\tAl_Iafrate\n66\tDET\tRay_Sheppard\n66\tSJ\tJohan_Garpenlov\n65\tTOR\tGlenn_Anderson\n65\tHFD\tZarley_Zalapski\n65\tLA\tWayne_Gretzky\n65\tNYR\tAdam_Graves\n64\tNJ\tValeri_Zelepukin\n63\tOTT\tNorm_Maciver\n63\tPHI\tKevin_Dineen\n62\tDET\tSteve_Chiasson\n62\tDET\tPaul_Ysebaert\n62\tPHI\tGarry_Galley\n61\tPIT\tShawn_McEachern\n60\tMTL\tMike_Keane\n60\tWPG\tDarrin_Shannon\n60\tNYI\tPat_Flatley\n60\tNJ\tBernie_Nicholls\n60\tQUE\tScott_Young\n59\tLA\tRob_Blake\n59\tPHI\tBrent_Fedyk\n57\tCHI\tSteve_Smith\n57\tWSH\tPat_Elynuik\n57\tNJ\tScott_Stevens\n57\tCGY\tSergei_Makarov\n57\tWPG\tFredrik_Olausson\n56\tVAN\tGreg_Adams\n56\tTB\tJohn_Tucker\n54\tCHI\tChristian_Ruuttu\n54\tCHI\tBrent_Sutter\n54\tCGY\tAl_MacInnis\n54\tNYR\tSergei_Nemchinov\n53\tHFD\tTerry_Yake\n53\tNYR\tDarren_Turcotte\n52\tNYI\tVladimir_Malakhov\n52\tVAN\tDixon_Ward\n52\tLA\tTomas_Sandstrom\n51\tBOS\tStephen_Leach\n51\tHFD\tPatrick_Poulin\n51\tWPG\tKeith_Tkachuk\n50\tNYI\tJeff_Norton\n50\tMTL\tDenis_Savard\n50\tTOR\tJohn_Cullen\n50\tWSH\tSylvain_Cote\n49\tNYR\tEd_Olczyk\n49\tSTL\tKevin_Miller\n49\tBOS\tDave_Poulin\n49\tVAN\tAnatoli_Semenov\n49\tPHI\tPelle_Eklund\n49\tWPG\tEvgeny_Davydov\n48\tMTL\tGilbert_Dionne\n48\tNJ\tJohn_MacLean\n48\tQUE\tMartin_Rucinsky\n48\tLA\tAlexei_Zhitnik\n48\tEDM\tPetr_Klima\n48\tEDM\tDoug_Weight\n47\tEDM\tShayne_Corson\n46\tEDM\tCraig_Simpson\n45\tWSH\tKelly_Miller\n45\tEDM\tDave_Manson\n44\tCHI\tMichel_Goulet\n44\tMTL\tMathieu_Schneider\n43\tDET\tBob_Probert\n43\tCGY\tPaul_Ranheim\n43\tOTT\tSylvain_Turgeon\n42\tMIN\tMark_Tinordi\n41\tOTT\tBob_Kudelski\n41\tDET\tNiklas_Lidstrom\n41\tOTT\tBrad_Shaw\n41\tEDM\tTodd_Elik\n41\tBOS\tVladimir_Ruzicka\n40\tMIN\tMike_McPhee\n40\tNYR\tEsa_Tikkanen\n40\tTOR\tDave_Ellett\n40\tNJ\tPeter_Stastny\n39\tLA\tCorey_Millen\n39\tNJ\tBobby_Holik\n39\tBUF\tYuri_Khmylev\n39\tTB\tAdam_Creighton\n39\tTOR\tWendel_Clark\n38\tVAN\tSergio_Momesso\n38\tNYR\tAlexei_Kovalev\n37\tTOR\tRob_Pearson\n37\tQUE\tValery_Kamensky\n37\tCHI\tDirk_Graham\n36\tNYR\tBrian_Leetch\n36\tEDM\tZdeno_Ciger\n35\tTOR\tPeter_Zezel\n35\tBOS\tTed_Donato\n33\tMIN\tNeal_Broten\n33\tHFD\tMikael_Nylander\n33\tPHI\tJosef_Beranek\n33\tCHI\tStephane_Matteau\n32\tEDM\tScott_Mellanby\n32\tDET\tKeith_Primeau\n32\tBUF\tWayne_Presley\n32\tNYI\tBrian_Mullen\n32\tPHI\tDmitri_Yushkevich\n32\tMTL\tGary_Leeman\n31\tBUF\tRichard_Smehlik\n31\tBOS\tSteve_Heinze\n31\tTOR\tDmitri_Mironov\n30\tCHI\tBrian_Noonan\n28\tWSH\tBob_Carpenter\n28\tSJ\tPat_Falloon\n27\tSTL\tIgor_Korolev\n27\tTB\tMikael_Andersson\n27\tNYI\tRay_Ferraro\n26\tBUF\tPetr_Svoboda\n26\tOTT\tMark_Lamb\n26\tNYR\tJames_Patrick\n25\tMTL\tBenoit_Brunet\n24\tNYI\tScott_LaChance\n24\tTOR\tBill_Berg\n23\tEDM\tMartin_Gelinas\n23\tWPG\tSergei_Bautin\n23\tEDM\tKevin_Todd\n21\tNYI\tDavid_Volek\n21\tNYI\tDarius_Kasparaitis\n21\tTB\tRoman_Hamrlik\n21\tMIN\tBrent_Gilchrist\n20\tNYR\tPhil_Bourque\n20\tDET\tJim_Hiller\n20\tPHI\tAndrei_Lomakin\n20\tHFD\tYvon_Corriveau\n19\tBUF\tDonald_Audette\n18\tBOS\tCam_Neely\n17\tCHI\tJoe_Murphy\n17\tSJ\tMark_Pederson\n16\tPIT\tMartin_Straka\n15\tNYR\tPeter_Andersson\n13\tNJ\tJanne_Ojanen\n13\tOTT\tTomas_Jelinek\n12\tMIN\tBobby_Smith\n11\tTB\tSteve_Kasper\n10\tSJ\tRay_Whitney\n9\tHFD\tRobert_Petrovicky\n9\tBUF\tViktor_Gordijuk\n8\tTOR\tJoe_Sacco\n8\tQUE\tMikhail_Tatarinov\n8\tSJ\tPeter_Ahola\n7\tCHI\tRob_Brown\n7\tBOS\tGlen_Murray\n6\tMIN\tBrian_Propp\n6\tHFD\tTim_Kerr\n5\tWSH\tReggie_Savage\n5\tLA\tRobert_Lang\n5\tSTL\tVitali_Prokhorov\n5\tDET\tViacheslav_Kozlov\n5\tEDM\tShaun_Van_Allen\n4\tBOS\tJozef_Stumpel\n4\tMIN\tDan_Quinn\n4\tPIT\tBryan_Fogarty\n3\tMTL\tOlav_Petrov\n3\tTB\tStan_Drulia\n2\tNJ\tClaude_Vilgrain\n2\tWSH\tJason_Woolley\n0\tQUE\tPeter_Forsberg\n0\tWSH\tBrian_Sakic\n0\tWSH\tRandy_Burridge\n0\tMTL\tPatrick_Kjellberg\n0\tOTT\tAlexei_Yashin\n0\tEDM\tDean_McAmmond\n0\tCGY\tCory_Stillman\n0\tTB\tBrent_Gretzky\n0\tBUF\tJason_Dawe\n0\tVAN\tIgor_Larionov\n0\tCHI\tSergei_Krivokrasov\n-- \nAndrew Scott | andrew@idacom.hp.com\nHP IDACOM Telecom Operation | (403) 462-0666 ext. 253", "(Detroit, April 21)\n\nMost knowledgable observers once again watched in shock as the Detroit Red\nWings again beat the best goaltender in the world six times en route to \nanother easy victory over the best team in the NHL. \n\nFor the best goaltender in the world, Felix Potvin, six was a bad number as\nhe surrendered six goals and collected six minutes in penalties in reponse\nto the goon tactics employed by the inferior Red Wings team. \n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tAlan", "\tAre people here stupid or what??? It is a tie breaker, of cause they\nhave to have the same record. How can people be sooooo stuppid to put win as\nfirst in the list for tie breaker??? If it is a tie breaker, how can there be\ndifferent record???? Man, I thought people in this net are good with hockey.\nI might not be great in Math, but tell me how can two teams ahve the same points\nwith different record??? Man...retard!!!!!! Can't believe people actually put\nwin as first in a tie breaker......\n\n\n", "I can't believe that the NY Rangers would force its \nplayers to go to Binghamtom to play in the AHL playoffs instead\nof letting them represent their countries in the World Championships.\n\nAnderrson and Zubov are waiting for the NHL to make a decision to this,\nwhile Kovalev has given in and gone down to the minors.\n\nThe Rangers are a disgrace.\n\nps. it has been reported that Neil Smith was very much against\nthe hiring of Mike Keenan. How long will Smith be in NY for?", "With everyone bitching about the hockey coverage by ESPN its almost like the \nDetroit-Toronto game was not televised last nite. I was just thankful to see\nhockey on a night that it wasn't supposed to be carried. Thanks to ESPN, no\nmatter why they televised the game", "From article , by cdw2t@dayhoff.med.Virginia.EDU (Dances With Federal Rangers):\n\nIt's you. Beemers have no EC (tm).", "I've never heard of the Bob Dylan Baseball Abstract, but I am curious.\nCould someone clue me in?\n\n--\n--------------------------\nPhil Brown |\naka pb6755@csc.albany.edu |", "\nErickson did go on the 15 day DL with a pulled muscle in his left side (near \nrib cage). He is on until 4/18/93.\n\nNo news as to who the Twins will bring up.\n----------------------------------------------\nKevin Hansen\nMN Twin Family Study - University of Minnesota\n(612)626-7224\nkhansen@staff.tc.umn.edu\n----------------------------------------------\nContact: University of Minnesota Women's Basketball", "\n Actually, what I think has become more evident, is that you are determined to\n flaunt your ignorance at all cost. Jagr did not have a better season than\n Francis ... to suggest otherwise is an insult to those with a modicum of\n hockey knowledge. Save your almost maniacal devotion to the almighty\n plus/minus ... it is the most misleading hockey stat available.\n\n Until the NHL publishes a more useful quantifiable statistic including ice\n time per game and some measure of its \"quality\" (i.e., is the player put out\n in key situations like protecting a lead late in the game; is he matched up\n against the other team's top one or two lines; short-handed, etc), I would\n much rather see the +/- disappear altogether instead of having its dubious\n merits trumpeted by those with little understanding of its implications.\n\n Brad\n\n-- \n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n Brad K. Gibson INTERNET: gibson@geop.ubc.ca\n Dept. of Geophysics & Astronomy \n #129-2219 Main Mall PHONE: (604)822-6722\n University of British Columbia FAX: (604)822-6047\n Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada\n V6T 1Z4", "I missed the original post, but aren't the Expos rushing alomost their\nentire team this year? I am from Montreal, and am a fan, but geez, the \nExpos rank 27th in salary (only the Rockies trail) and someone at \nthe average age would probably be in first year University!\n\t\t\tCorelMARK!\n\n", "I knew, despite the lack of a full game telecast last week, it was still\ntoo much hockey for Atlanta. Atlanta's ABC has declined to pick up any\nplayoff games till May9. And even when they show the games on MAy9 and May16,\nthey will continue to skip the first half hour of the telecast. I know this\nis still a better situation compared to rest of Georgia, Alabama, etc., but\nit is still pretty annoying. At least in PIttsburgh, we had a network preemptionchannel which showed all netwoork shows prempted by the local affiliate.\n\n\nI asked them what their problem was. I told them that a local 1.9 rating was\nnot that bad considering it was the first NHL game shown after a long time\nwithout much promotion. Besides, their syndicated programming in the afternoon\nis usually low rated. So what did they have to lose by showing NHL playoffs.\nShe told me that they had contractual obligations. I asked her if golf\nwas shown oin ABC, would contractual obligations come in the way. And how come\ncontractual obligations didn't come in the way of last week's telecast? She\nthen couldn't give me a coherent answer.\n\n\nAlso, I added that Atlanta had one of the highest neutral site game\nattendances and that the demographics were good. I think ABC and other networks\nshould begin to tie their high rated programs like Roseanne in with\n thier sports programming.\nI hope that everyone in Atlanta who reads this bboard calls WSB 2 and complain\nbitterlyt about this. Tell them you will stop watching their news telecasts\nsince they seem to be very unprofessional in handling this situation.", "\nYou obviously don't understand how TV scheduling works. ESPN had\nprior contracts to baseball to show Monday night games and had\ncontracted all the other bs shows well in advance. The NHL TV deal\nwas very late in the scheduling process (you normally have to do this\none-plus year out. The NHL package was finished two weeks before the\nseason started). ESPN has shown tremendous commitment to the NHL by\nsqueezing in extra telecasts when it could (like the last Minnesota\ngame) and putting Stanley Cup games as backup to their baseball\ntelecasts (which by favorable circumstances they could pull off last\nnight).\n\nBut the bottom line is that ESPN cannot break contracts at will. They\nmust honor the previous deals they made. $$$$ _does_ have something\nto do with it, especially if you risk a $$$$$$$$ lawsuit for breach of\ncontract with baseball.\n\nSo relax. I'm happy. (I don't get SportsChannel anyway).", "My god, hope we don't have to put up with this kind of junk all season!\n\n\nHow many home runs by Tartabull? Just 1, right, you must be thinking\nof Dean Palmer or Juan Gonzalez (both of Texas) who each had 2 homers.\n\n\nI don't know how many to follow, but he was 1 for 4.\n", "As I've mentioned in the rules posting, I will be out of town until the\nday before the entry deadline, so I won't be able to respond to your\nmessages until April 18.\n\nI would be grateful if someone could repost the rules and instructions for\nthe playoff pool sometime next week, for the benefit of those who missed the\nfirst two postings.\n\nThanks.\n\n-- \nAndrew Scott | andrew@idacom.hp.com\nHP IDACOM Telecom Operation | (403) 462-0666 ext. 253", "\n[Much text deleted]\n\n: plus/minus ... it is the most misleading hockey stat available.\n\nNot necessarily the most misleading, but you are right, it definitely\nneeds to be taken in the proper perspective. A shining example is\nif you look at the Penguins individual +/-, you will find very few minuses.\nThat only makes common sense, since they didn't lose many games.\n\n: Until the NHL publishes a more useful quantifiable statistic including ice\n: time per game and some measure of its \"quality\" (i.e., is the player put out\n: in key situations like protecting a lead late in the game; is he matched up\n: against the other team's top one or two lines; short-handed, etc), I would\n: much rather see the +/- disappear altogether instead of having its dubious\n: merits trumpeted by those with little understanding of its implications.\n\nUnfortunately, you will need to keep a ridiculous number of stats to\nreally come up with a statistic which really shows a player's value.\nLet's just enjoy the game and not overanalyze it. (like I'm doing now,\nexcuse me!)\n", "1992-93 Los Angeles Kings notes and game reports.\n-------------------------------------------------\nKings 6 @ Calgary Flames 3 - 04/18/93\n\nThe third place Kings opened the 1993 Stanley Cup Playoffs in Calgary, against\nthe second place Flames and came out with an impressive 6-3 victory in front of\na non-sellout crowd of 18,605 at the Saddledome in Calgary.\n\nSymthe Division playoff hockey this was. Both teams seemed a bit tense in the\nopening period though the Kings scored off the opening face-off. The Kings got\ninto the flow of the game much earlier than the Flames as they played out-\nstanding team defense. It took the Flames 9:45 of the first period to record\ntheir first shot on goal. The Kings, ranked 16th of the 16 playoff teams on\npenalty killing, shut down the Flames. The Flames went 0-8 on the power play \nand could record only 8 shot on goal in those 8 opportunities. The Kings had\ntheir problems on the power play, yet they did manager to score 2 goals in 10\ntries.\n\nThe Kings forwards back-checked while the defense stood the Flames up at the\nblue line, allowing the Kings to take took the home ice advantage away from the \nFlames. Rob Blake missed the game due to the lower back contusion but is ex-\npected to be in the lineup on Wednesday. Wayne Gretzky suffered a charlie horse\nin his right leg. He took a few shifts in the second period before retiring to \nthe dressing room for the rest of the game. Interviewed on the radio this \nmorning, he stated that he was fine and would be in the lineup on Wednesday.\n\n1st period: \n1-0. The Kings got things started right off the opening face-off. Gretzky won\nthe draw with the puck going to Sydor. He crossed center ice and slapped the\npuck into the Flames zone and behind the net. The puck carried around to the\nfar side where Robitaille wacked at it and the rebound bounced to Sandstrom. He\nput the puck behind the Flames net where Gretzky picked it up. Gretzky set up\nin 'his office', moved to the near side and passed into the near circle where\nSydor had moved in. Sydor, who got the puck between the face-off dot and the \nhash mark, shot off the pass, beating Vernon low and between the legs.\n\nMillen and Fleury went off at 4:57. Skrudland went off at 12:25 but the Kings\nfailed to convert. Carson went off at 14:53 and the Flames failed to convert.\nDahlquist went off at 18:34 and Dahl went off at 19:30, giving the Kings a 30\nsecond 5on3 which they failed to convert. The Kings recorded 2 goal posts in\nthe period.\n\n2nd period: \nThe Kings opened with a 5on3 carried over from the 1st period which they failed\nto convert on. With 6 seconds left in the 5on4, Vernon put a bouncing puck into\nthe stands and received a delay of game.\n\n1-1. Calgary evened the score on the ensuing Kings power play. Kurri, with the\npuck in the neutral zone, tried to put the puck into the Flames zone but it hit \nthe stick of Fleury and bounced to Suter at the Flames blue line. Suter skated \ndown the near wing and into the Kings zone. He faked a shot at the circle and\nskated around Kurri. As he cut thorugh the crease, he got Hrudey to go with him \nand he put the puck behind Hrudey, on his stick side for a short hander.\n\n2-1. The Kings reclaimed the lead 25 seconds later on the same power play.\nShuchuk, in the far circle passed to Sydor at the top of the slot and headed\nfor the net. Sydors shot hit Shuchuk in the back and dropped into the low slot \nwhere 2 Kings (Shuchuk and Granato) were being checked by 3 Flames. Carson\ncame from the far corner, picked up the loose puck and snapped a wrist shot\nbetween the legs of Vernon from 5 feet above the crease.\n\n3-1. The Kings widened their lead just 24 seconds later. Rychel was checked off\nthe puck at the Flames blue line. Taylor picked up the puck and sent a pass\ncross the slot to Huddy. Huddy shot off the pass, from the near face-off dot,\nbeating a diving Vernon on the glove side.\n\n4-1. 2:59 later, the Kings had a 3 goal lead. McSorley took a shot form the\nnear point that hit a Flame and deflected towards the boards. Marty got his\nown rebound, skated to the bottom of the circle and sent a pass into the low\nslot that hit Dahlquist on the leg and deflected past the stick of Vernon.\n\nSkrudland went off at 10:53 but the Kings could not convert. Sydor went off at\n12:35 and Watters went off at 14:40, giving the Flames a 5 second 5-3 but they\nfailed to convert. McSorley went off at 17:19 and the Flames had 3 consecutive\npower plays but the Flames killed it themselves when Suter went off for high\nsticking at 17:31. Sandstrom went off at 18:03 to close out the period. The\nKings hit 3 goal post in the period.\n\n3rd period:\nThe Kings used the phrase \"Initiate, not retaliate\" and it was very evident here\nin the 3rd period as the Kings continued to pound the body and the Flames \ncontinued to take bad penalties to take themselves out of the game.\n\n5-1. The Kings extended their lead to 4 goals at the 1:06 mark. The Kings shot\nthe puck into the near corner of the Flames zone. Vernon went behind the net to\ncut off the puck but he could not control it. Donnelly, who was behind him,\nwacked at the puck, sending it into the low slot. As Vernon slid back in to the\ncrease, Granato got a shot that hit a Flame and bounced to the left of the net\nwhere Millen fired the rebound behind Vernon.\n\nSydor went off at 1:24; Nieuwendyk went off at 3:22 as the teams skated 4 on 4.\n\n5-2. Otto, skating down the far side, stepped around McSorley, cut to the net\nand passed to Dahlquist in the low slot. Dahlquist cut through the top of the \ncrease and put the puck in under a diving Hrudey.\n\nCarson and Rychel came in on a 2-1. When Carson passed across to Rychel, Fleury\ntripped Rychel with no call. The puck got shoveled into the far corner where \nFleury knocked Rychel down and checked him from behind into the boards, drawing \na 5-minute major and a game misconduct at the 6:08 mark. Unfortunately, the \nKings squandered the 5 minute power play when Granato (at 6:44) and Watters (at \n8:19) took penalties. \n\n5-3. The Flames closed to within 2 at the 8:47 mark. MacInnis, at the near \npoint, passed to Yawney at the far point. He took a few strides towards the\nnet, wound up and drove a shot off the near post and in over the glove of\nHrudey. The play started on another faceoff that the Kings lost. Timeout - LA.\n\n6-3. MacInnis took a penalty at 9:56 and the Kings converted on the power play\nto seal the victory. Sandstrom, skating down the far wing in the Flames zone \ncut towards the back of the net. Just as he crossed the goal line, he passed \nthe puck into the low slot, on the far side, to Carson who shot off the pass, \nbeating Vernon on the ice, stick side.\n\nAt the 16:17 mark, Skrudland went off for slashing and Stern went crazy as he\nwent after Shuchuk. Stern wound up with a double minor for roughing, a single\nminor for cross checking and a 10 minute misconduct, and he took the Flames\nright out of the game.\n\nOn the plus side: The Kings, for the most part, played very disciplined hockey\nas they let Calgary retaliate. The Kings played good team defense and excellent\npenalty killing.\n\nOn the minus side: The Kings lost almost every face-off. This must improve or\nthe Flames will surely get that power play back on track.\n\nNotes:\n------\nThe Kings recalled Guy Leveque, Brandy Semchuk and Jim Thomson from Phoenix.\n\nWayne Gretzkys 1st period assist was his 307th career playoff point.\n\nThe Kings entered the game 24th in the league in shots per game against, giving\nthe opposing team an average of 34.4 shots per game.\n\nFlames goaltender Mike Vernon entered the game with a 3-9-1 record in afternoon \ngames. The Flames entered the game with a 34% success rate on the power play\nover their last 9 games.\n\nThe teams were 3-3-1 against each other in the regular season.\n\nPlayoffs:\nCampbell Conference:\nSmythe Division:\nLA 6 @ CAL 3 \t\tLA leads 1-0\nWIN @ VAN\n\nNorris Division:\nSTL 4 @ CHI 3\t\tSTL leads 1-0\nTOR @ DET\n\nWales Conference:\nAdams Division:\nBUF 5 @ BOS 4 (OT)\tBUF leads 1-0\nMON 2 @ QUE 3 (OT)\tQUE leads 1-0\n\nPatrick Division:\nNJ 3 @ PIT 6\t\tPIT leads 1-0\nNYI 1 @ WAS 3\t\tWAS leads 1-0\n\nRecords:\n--------\nvs\tSmythe\t Norris\t Patrck\tAdams\tOverall\n================================================\nHome: 0- 0-0 0-0-0 0-0-0 0-0-0 0- 0-0 \nRoad: 1- 0-0 0-0-0 0-0-0 0-0-0 1- 0-0\n==============================================================\nTotal: 1- 0-0 0-0-0 0-0-0\t0-0-0\t 1- 0-0 \n\nBox Score:\n=========================\nCalgary 0 1 2 - 3\nLos Angeles 1 3 2 - 6\n=========================\n\n1st period: \nLA Sydor 1 (Gretzky, Sandstrom), 0:16\n LA Millen - high sticking, 4:57\n CAL Fleury - high sticking, 4:57\n CAL Skrudland - interference, 12:25\n LA Carson - tripping 14:53\n CAL Dahlquist - holding stick, 18:34\n CAL Dahl - roughing 19:30\n\n2nd period: \n CAL Verson - delay of game (served by Ashton), 1:34\nCAL Suter 1 (Fleury), 2:48 (sh)\nLA Carson 1 (Shuchuk, Sydor), 3:13 (pp)\nLA Huddy 1 (Taylor, Rychel), 3:37\nLA McSorley 1 (unassisted), 6:36\n CAL Skrudland - elbowing, 10:53\n LA Sydor - tripping, 12:35\n LA Watters- hooking, 14:40\n LA McSorley - holding, 17:19\n CAL Suter - high sticking, 17:31\n LA Sandstrom - hooking, 18:03\n\n3rd period:\nLA Millen 1 (Granato, Donnelly), 1:06\n LA Sydor - hooking, 1:24\n CAL Nieuwendyk - tripping, 3:22\nCAL Dahlquist 1 (Otto), 4:23\n CAL Fleury - major (boarding), game misconduct, 6:08\n LA Granato - tripping, 6:44\n LA Watters - interference, 8:19\nCAL Yawney 1 (MacInnis, Reichel), 8:47\n CAL MacInnis - roughing, 9:56\nLA Carson 2 (Sandstrom, Robitaille), 10:32 (pp)\n LA Hardy - holding, 11:38\n CAL Skrudland - slashing, 16:17\n CAL Stern - double roughing, cross-checking, 10 min. misconduct, 16:17\n\nOvertime: none\n\nShots:\n------\nLos Angeles 8 9 14 - 31\nCalgary 5 8 11 - 24\n\nPower play conversions:\n-----------------------\nFor: 2 of 10; for the year: 2 of 10, 20.00%\nAgainst: 0 of 8; for the year: 8 of 8, 100.00%\n\nGoalies:\n--------\nLos Angeles - Hrudey (1-0-0)\nCalgary - Vernon (0-1-0)\n\nAttendance: 18,605\n\nScratches:\n----------\nRob Blake - back contusion\nGuy Leveque - numbers\nLonnie Loach - numbers\nMarc Potvin - numbers\nBrandy Semchuk - numbers\nRobb Stauber - numbers\nBrent Thompson - numbers\nJim Thomson - numbers\n\nLines - Forwards:\n----------------\n*Robitaille - Gretzky - Sandstrom \nDonnelly - Millen - Kurri\nRychel - Conacher - Taylor\nGranato - Carson - Shuchuk\n\nLines - Defense:\n----------------\n*Huddy - Sydor\nWatters - Zhitnik\nHardy - McSorley\n\n* denotes starting lineup\n\nNext game:\n----------\nWednesday, April 21 @ Calgary Flames; 6:30pm Pacific Time on Prime Ticket\n===============================================================================\nStan Willis (willis@empire.dnet.hac.com)\nnet contact: L.A. Kings", "\n\n\n\nAccording to \"Quotations from Chairman Cherry\", Don was playing in\nSpringfield. He and another player had to pay some fines; the other\nplayer had his paid off, but not Don didn't want to.\n\nDon called the other player a \"teacher's Pet\", and the other player\nreplied \"Ah, that's just sour grapes\".", "Current votes for favorite goalie masks (3pts - 1st, 2pts - 2nd, 1pt - 3rd)\n\nPlayer Team Pts Votes\n--------------------------------------------------------------\n1. Ed Belfour Chicago 31 14\n2. Andy Moog Boston 30 13\n3. Curtis Joseph St. Louis 26 11 \n Brian Hayward San Jose 26 10 \n5. Ron Hextall Quebec 16 8\n6. Gerry Cheevers Boston (retired) 11 6 \n7. John Vanbeisbrouck NY Rangers 10 4\n Grant Fuhr Buffalo 10 4 \n9. Mike Richter NY Rangers 6 3\n10. Manon Rheaume Atlanta (IHL) 5 2\n11. Don Beaupre Washington 4 2\n Ken Dryden Montreal (retired) 4 2\n--------------------------------------------------------------\nOthers receiving less than 4pts: Mike Vernon (Cal), Clint\n Malarchuk (Buf/SD,IHL), Tommy Soderstrom (Phil), Ray LeBlanc (USA),\n Artus Irbe (SJ), Tim Cheveldae (Det), Sean Burke (NJ),\n Rick Wamsley (Tor,ret), Jon Casey (Minn), Bob Essensa (Win),\n Glenn Healy (NYI), Toy Espo (???), Gilles Gratton (???),\n Rod Stauber (LA), Gump Worsley (???), Pat Jablonski (TB),\n Grant Fuhr (Tor), Felix Potvin (Tor), Stephane Beauregard (Win),\n Mark Fitzpatrick (NYI), Chico Resch (NYI)\n\n\nCan someone please tell me which teams the (???) play(ed) for? Thanks.\n", "I'm looking for software (hopefully free and runs on Unix box) which will\nkeep track of statistics for my company softball team (batting avg. etc.).\n\nIf you know of any please post or respond to me by e-mail. Many thanks.\n", "\n\nTo put it mildly. As I watched the Flyers demolish Toronto last night, 4-0,\nI realized that no matter how good the Leafs' #1 line may be, they'll need\none or two more decent lines to go far in the playoffs. And, of course, a\nhealthy Felix Potvin.", "\nAfter a quick start, Pena has been stuck in a rut. Torre gave Alicea\nthe start to try to get Pena out of whatever funk he is in. It has\nworked in the past.\n\nBob", "Bunker & McNally were later.\n\nPappas, Estrada, Steve Barber, and . . . ?", "It was great to hear that UMass is bringing back hockey! It reminded me that a\ncouple of years ago there was talk that both Bimidgi (sp?) and Mankato State\ntrying to upgrade their programs to Div. 1 status. I also seem to remember\nthat they had some trouble with new NCAA rule about just who was allowed to\ncompete at the Div. 1 level. Was that ever resolved? Also, I was just\nwondering if there is ANY college hockey east of Colorado (Alaska excepted).\nWith the new popularity of hockey on the west coast, I would expect there to\nbe some interest building at the collegiate levels too. Anyone heard anything?\n James Old, e-mail JOLD@vma.cc.nd.edu\n", "\n\nYou wouldn't have to put my name at the bottom if you simply appended a \nstandard disclaimer that the opinions expressed in your petition in no\nway claim to represent the views of either rec.sport.hockey or the internet\nas a whole. You have surely seen these disclaimers appended to the postings\nof many who work for companies and post on the net. The disclaimers, clever\nthough some of them may be, are there for a reason.\n\n \n-- ", "Me, too... RBI are a worthless stat. Of course, so is stolen bases because \nsometimes runners are in front of a player that would otherwise run. And of\ncourse pitchers pitch differently with different people on different bases,\nso batting average, slugging and obp out, too. Hmmm... i guess homers would\nnot count then, either.\nMy point? RBI might not be a perfect stat but nothing is. And no stat (or lack\nof) can tell me there are no clutch hitters. Maybe no stat CAN tell me,\neither, but some people are... I just know it!!! 8)", "News reports in Toronto say that the Rangers are insisting that\nKovalev, Zubov, and Andersson play for Binghampton in the Calder\nCup playoffs, rather than return to play for their \"home\" countries\nin the World Championships.\n\n...shame on the Rangers.\n\nAnother black eye for the NHL in Europe.", "\nTickets are very hard to get, even at the box office at Camden Yards.\nIf you really want to see a game here (I go to school in Baltimore),\nprice should not be an issue. Tickets go up to $15, but you should be willing\nto go as high as $20-25 if you really want to come.\n\n", "AHL PLAYOFF SCORES-- FIRST ROUND\t(home team in CAPS)\n================================\n\nGAMES PLAYED ON THURS, 4/22\n-------------------------\nRochester 4\tUTICA 3\t\t(OT)\n\t\t\nGAMES PLAYED ON FRI, 4/23\n--------------------------\nBinghamton 8\tBALTIMORE 3\nMONCTON 5\tSt John's 4\t(OT)\nSpringfield 4\tPROVIDENCE 2\n\n===================================================================\nSERIES STATI (plural of status? :)\n----------------------------------\nAdirondack defeated CDI, 4-0\nSpringfield leads Providence, 3-2\nBinghamton leads Baltimore, 2-1\nRochester leads Utica, 3-1\nSt John's leads Moncton, 3-1\nCape Breton leads Fredericton, 3-1", "\nWe cannot isolate completely, Roger, but we can make a pretty good\nestimate. I won't claim to split hairs and say that we can really\nmeasure who was better, Robby Alomar or Carlos Baerga, last year; the\ndifference is too close to call. But Larkin and Lee? Clemens and\nMorris? The differences are too great there.\n\nIn your measure of the game, why should a team that has just won it\nall ever replace a single player? Since they are now clearly \"best\",\nhow can they do better? Yet every team can always find someplace where\nthey beleive they can improve the team; they can always find a player\na little better than one they already have. (BTW, by my definitions,\nthe \"best\" player is the one who does the most things to help his team\nwin. I will allow that this could vary depending on who else is on the\nteam, by having aptitudes one team needs more than others.)\n\nBaseball is a team game, but it is made of individual talents. It is\nabsurd to judge the success or failure of an individual by the success\nor failure of his teammates, whom he did not choose (at least in most\ncases.) Morris won last year because he played on a team with Joe\nCarter, Robby Alomar, Tom Henke, Juan Guzman, John Olerud, et al.\nClemens lost because he was surrounded by such lesser performers as\nHerm Winninham, Luis Rivera, and Jeff Reardon. To define the quality\nof the team as a sum of its components (as I do, albeit imperfectly)\nis a lesser error than defining the quality of an individual as the\nmean quality of the team (as my reading of your arguments suggests you\ndo)", "Umpires are not required to call time out just because a player\nasks for time. Only in extreme cases, like dust in the pitcher's\nor hitter's eyes, should an umpire call time.\n\nThe batter has 20 seconds to get situated in the box and receive\na pitch. I'm against putting a giant clock (or any size clock\nfor that matter) up to count down 20 seconds between pitches and\nthe minute for warm-ups. But I think umpires should tell hitters\nto go to hell if they step out to get the sign or whatever, and\ninstruct the pitcher to pitch. The same goes for pitchers. Umps\nshould tell them to pitch or feint within 20 seconds or a ball\nwill be called. That's the way it should be.\n\n\nRyan Robbins\nPenobscot Hall\nUniversity of Maine", "\n\nI definitely do. That's why I don't like going to see games played\non artificial turf :-)\n\n\nWell, your idea of \"interesting\" differs from mine. I think\nbatting practice is interesting, for example, and make a special\neffort to get to the game very early in order to see it. I think the\ndelaying tactics of batters, pitchers, catchers, and managers are\ninteresting because they're attempts to gain advantage through control\nof the flow and timing of the game. Of course, the umpires can, and\nshould, intervene when these tactics get out of hand. As Ryan Robbins\nhas pointed out, there are rules that cover this.\n\nOne of the more fascinating things about baseball, I think, is its\nopen-endedness with regard to time. You never know if the game is going\nto zip right by and be over in less than two hours, or if it's going to\ngo on until four in the morning. Likewise, some games are action-packed,\nand some games are slow and lazy. That's fine by me. Those folks who\nwant constant action should watch the games on TV so they can channel-\nsurf and cater to their short attention spans.", "On the Lindros \"trade\": Like Ottawa would be stupid enough to get\nLindros. Why do you think Quebec traded him? Lindros would go on\npersonal strike again...maybe I should talk to Ottawa mgmt. about\narranging such a trade.... ;-)\n\nOn that xenophobe: Thankfully nobody agreed with him publicly. Maybe we\nshould look at baseball, the supposed \"American\" pasttime (sp?). Look at\nall the damn Latin Americans playing there! They should all be deported! \nThey aren't American! (add sarcasm to taste)\n\nTo Roger: Wow, for once we agree. I hope this isn't a sign of things to\ncome.... I'll become a ranting lunatic who talks about nothing but the\nLeafs being the best in the Campbell. ;-)\n\nOn the Rangers: I told someone that nothing that happened in the Patrick\nwould surprise me anymore. I lied. How the hell can a team go into\nWashington, earn a shutout, then come back home and lose to pitiful\nHartford? The absolute *pinnacle* of mediocrity. I can't stand it.\nFrom what I've read, the goalie is to blame this time, as Beezer played\npretty poorly. Smith is talking about calling up Corey Hirsch from\nBinghamton, everybody is pointing fingers... this is definitely not the\nsame team which wanted to prove itself in Washington. *Now* nothing that\nhappens in the Patrick will surprise me. (Yeah, right... ;-)\n\n\n\n--\n Keith Keller\t\t\t\tLET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!\n\t\t\t\t\t\tLET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!\n\tkkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu\t\tIVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!", "hmm - i thought francesca's predictions ALWAYS hovered at or below\n .500, especially in the nfl. (not counting college football\n bowl day).\n\nhe's a nice analyst for explaining past tense, and for mapping out\n what plays teams might do - but for predicting the future, he only\n looks good whne compared to russo.", "\nI thought it was 1) wins 2) goals for.", "\nYes, 4 points, in really big holes which are fairly clear of most of\nthe other stuff on the board. If you can replace the battery, you\ncan install the battery holder.", "Well, here it is, NHL in the year 2000.\nI got these from a very reliable source in a dream some years ago and \nalthough I initially thought I had just been taking too many too strong \ndrugs now it seems the realization has really begun... You can see the \nleague has already started to move to this direction.\n\n *The Walt Disney Conference*\nAnaheim Mighty Chipmunks -Franchise name to be changed after each new \nLA Kings hockey movie \nLA Flames -We've seen some of that\nSan Jose Sharks\nSan Diego Bruins\nTijuana Red Wings -Detroit's hockey team will follow its car industry...\nDallas Stars \nHouston Oilers\nTexas Rangers\nSeattle Canucks\n\n *The Norm Green Conference*\nAlabama White Hawks\nBiloxi Blues\nTampa Bay Lightning\nMiami Blades\nHelsinki Jets -You've heard them starting getting used to the anthem\nMontreal Quebecois (sp?) -There will be no 'Canada'\nAtlanta Devils\nOrlando Penquins\nKey West Islanders\nHartford Whalers The Whalers will never move, huh?\nPalm Beach Capitals\n\n Now that the Anahaim team is becomming real I'm really beginning to believe\nthe rest of the 'message'. I'm sure the future will turn you into believers \ntoo. After 2000 the NHL will abandond ice-rinks. It's so expensive to cool \ndown the rinks in the subtropics and the locals hardly know what ice is \nanyway. NHL will become a roller skating hockey league. That way it can \ncreate more public interest in the game when local supporteres can play the \ngame in their back yards !", "\n An interesting note ... I have absolutely no recollection who was on my team.\n I picked all my players about 2 weeks before the start of the season, and\n then never touched the roster again. I got wrapped up in my own \"money\" pool\n and decided not to get involved at all with the USENET pool (sorry Andrew\n btw). The only thing I remember about my team is that I had Joe Sacco and\n maybe John MacLean. Maybe Francis and Kevin Stevens as well. Out of\n curiousity I checked the final standings today on r.s.h., only to find to my\n amazement that with absolutely no input, the initial team still managed to\n finsh 79th! I'm not sure what that implies for those who finished below me\n :)\n\n Ciao.\n Brad Gibson\n\n-- \n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n Brad K. Gibson INTERNET: gibson@geop.ubc.ca\n Dept. of Geophysics & Astronomy \n #129-2219 Main Mall PHONE: (604)822-6722\n University of British Columbia FAX: (604)822-6047\n Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada\n V6T 1Z4", "1B Career: DON MATTINGLY!!!!!!!!\n", "\nCatcher is their weakest position, with the possible exception of second base.\nThey have a chance to simultaneously replace their biggest offensive problem\nspot with a well-above-average offensive player *and* acclimate a highly\npromising potential star with no pressure on him to carry the team, and they\nwant to play *Olson* and *Berryhill* instead?!\n\n\n\"A catcher's defensive reputation will be inversely proportional to his\n recent offensive level of performance.\" Thus, Mickey Tettleton goes (in\n the media) from being a no-hit defensive whiz to a slugging thumb-finger\n in two short years. The rule doesn't apply to perceived \"superstars\", who\n get the Gold Glove Offensive Transfer effect instead. Greg Olson is probably\n considered to be a good defensive catcher precisely because he can't hit.\n\n\n\nAren't they the same thing?\n\n\nEither that or just stupidity.\n\n\nOf course.\n\n\nOne could make the same sort of argument in other cases. Pete Rose, in\npursuing Ty Cobb's record, was a huge gate attraction (and national media\nmagnet). The Reds made a lot of money off that; they also wasted the prime\nof Eric Davis. That may be \"good business\", but that doesn't mean I don't\nloathe them for it.\n\n\n", "I got back from my trip to discover that my email spool file got blown\naway. I am missing all the playoff pool entries sent between April 5\nand April 17. It looks like about 200 entries got lost. *Sigh*.\n\nTherefore, I would like to ask each person that sent me a team to resend\nit ASAP. I am relying on your honesty to not make changes after the\ndeadline today.\n\nThanks in advance, and I apologize for the problem.\n\n-- \nAndrew Scott | andrew@idacom.hp.com\nHP IDACOM Telecom Operation | (403) 462-0666 ext. 253", "While I will first congratulate the Blues for their victory, I think it must\nbe realized that the primary reason the Blues were able to win was Curtis \nJoseph. When a goalkeeper gets hot, there is little an opposing team can do.\nJoseph should be given the entire city of St. Louis, because otherwise there \nwould probably be a game 6 scheduled. \n\nAs for the game on Sunday. The Blues caught a few breaks, without a doubt.\nOne was the Referee constantly watching the Blackhawks, looking for reasons to\ngive them penalties. Second, The Blues first goal resulted because the puck\nhit the linesman as the Blackhawks attempted to clear. No linesman, no shot\nfor Brett(I can redirect anything)Hull to redirect. On another of St. Louis'\ngoals, Belfour was tripped from behind as he went to make the save by someone\nwho didn't belong in the crease, which means it was a St. Louis player.\nFinally, the overtime goal was caused because someone kept Belfour from getting back to the crease. No goalie, no way to stop the shot.\n\nI congratulate St. Louis for beating the Hawks. It will be a shame to see\nBryan Murray finally advance to the Campbell Conference Finals because Joseph\nwon't be able to stop the powerful Red Wing attack.\n\n\n____________________________________________________________________________", "\nDidn't Alicea get a hit, though? \n\nSee y'all at the ballyard\nGo Braves\nChop Chop\n\nMichael Mule'\n", "\n\tYou know what Frank? It's not David Poile's fault that the Caps\nhave mired in mediocrity for so long. Blame it on the owner, Abe Polin!\nThis guy owns both the NBA's Bullets and the NHL's Capitals. How dumb\nand selfish could this guy be? He's unwilling to spend the bucks in \norder to get a big star to Landover...no wonder both teams STINK!\n\n\tI've heard that the Capitals had a chance to get Detroit's\nSteve Yzerman last summer but they pulled out at the last minute. Why?\nBecause our good man, Abe, is afraid to spend the cash!\n\n\tNevertheless, I'm still faithful and hoping that one day\nthis devilish dictator will be replaced.\n", "Dear Anybody,\n\nI am in Rochester, NY, where people can look at a Rangers-Penguins playoff game and\nsay, no joke I heard it, \"Hey whats this, OH, its not even the AHL, its just\nthe NHL, I think.\" Because of this e get Red Wings (Orioles AAA) stats and\nupdates but no AL or NL stats. Specifically Im looking for Red Sox stats so\nfar, Id like all of them, but could handle just Greenwell and Vaughn. CAN\nANYBODY PLEASE HELP ME!!!!!!!!", "Well, I have compiled some statistics on the entries of my pool. There\nare unofficially 52 entrants. Here are the stats on what teams were\npicked to win it all:\n\nPittsburgh:\t34 (1 sweep, 14 in 5, 15 in 6, 4 in 7)\nBoston:\t\t6 (1 in 5, 5 in 6)\nDetroit:\t4 (3 in 6, 1 in 7)\nMontreal:\t2 (1 in 5, 1 in 7)\nToronto:\t2 (1 in 6, 1 in 7)\n (no, this wasn't Roger)\nCalgary:\t1 (in 6)\nQuebec:\t\t1 (in 6)\nVancouver:\t1 (in 7)\nWashington:\t1 (in 6)\n\nWhy the hell hasn't anybody picked Chicago??? NOBODY! Quebec got a pick,\nDetroit got 4, but absolutely no Chicago! How odd.\n\nHere are the \"losers\":\n\nDetroit:\t20\nChicago:\t16\t(so there they are!)\nPittsburgh:\t6\nVancouver:\t4\nBoston:\t\t2\nCalgary:\t2\nLos Angeles:\t1\twhat?!?\nToronto:\t1\n\nLOS ANGELES??????? Are you out of your mind?!?!? Good luck to you,\nyou'll need it!\n\nSo Pittsburgh is the consensus winner of the Stanley Cup. They'll\nstatistically beat Detroit in 6 games. HAHA that's happening! NOT! As\nI said, every one of my picks will come true, and I picked Chicago to lose\nto Pittsburgh in the finals, so tough luck to all you who picket Detroit. \nWell, tough luck to all of ya! I am a genius!!! ;-)\n\n--\n Keith Keller\t\t\t\tLET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!\n\t\t\t\t\t\tLET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!\n\tkkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu\t\tIVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!", "\n\nHere are the ones I can remember offhand:\n\n KDKA 1020 AM Pittsburgh Penguins\n WABC 770 AM New Jersey Devils\n WBBM 780 AM Chicago Blackhawks\n WJM (?) 720 AM Detroit Redwings\n KMOX 1120 AM St. Louis Blues\n\nAre the Flyers on 1210?\nThat's all I can think of.", "NHL PLAYOFF RESULTS FOR 4/19/93.\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n CONFERENCE SEMI-FINALS BEST OF SEVEN\n PATRICK ADAMS NORRIS SMYTHE\n \n NJ BUF (leads 1-0) STL (leads 1-0) WIN \n PIT (leads 1-0) BOS CHI VAN (leads 1-0)\n\n NYI MON TOR LA (leads 1-0) \n WAS (leads 1-0) QUE (leads 1-0) DET (leads 1-0) CAL \n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nToronto Maple Leafs 1 1 1 - 3\nDetroit Red Wings (leads series 1-0) 1 4 1 - 6\n\n1st period: DET, Yzerman 1 - (Gallant, Ciccarelli) 4:48\n\t TOR, Cullen 1 - (Clark, Gill) 10:44\n\n2nd period: DET, Sheppard 1 - (Probert, Coffey) (pp) 5:04\n\t DET, Burr 1 - (Racine) (sh) 6;42\n\t DET, Chiasson 1 - (Coffey) (pp) 11:00\n\t DET, Howe 1 - (Yzerman, Drake) 14;46\n\t TOR, Gilmour 1 - (Borschevsky, Ellett) (pp) 19:59\n\n3rd period: DET, Racine 1 - (Primeau, Drake) 5:10\n\t TOR, Lefebvre 1 - (Cullen, Pearson) 7:45\n\nPowerplay Opportunities-Maple Leafs 1 of 5\n\t\t\tRed Wings 2 of 6\n\nShots on Goal-\tMaple Leafs 5 9 9 - 23\n\t\tRed Wings 13 8 12 - 33\n\nToronto Maple Leafs--Potvin (0-1) (33 shots - 27 saves)\nDetroit Red Wings--Cheveldae (1-0) (23 shots - 20 saves)\n\nATT-19,875\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nWinnipeg Jets 1 0 1 - 2\nVancouver Canucks (leads series 1-0) 2 0 2 - 4\n\n1st period: VAN, Adams 1 - (Linden, Bure) (pp) 1:23\n\t VAN, Craven 1 - (Bure, Murzyn) 9:56\n\t WIN, Steen 1 - (Shannon, Housley) (pp) 17:53\n\n2nd period: NONE\n\n3rd period: WIN, King 1 - (Barnes) 3:43\n\t VAN, Linden 1 - (Courtnall, McLean) 12:16\n\t VAN, Ronning 1 - (Courtnall) 18:31\n\nPowerplay Opportunities-Jets 1 of 3\n\t\t\tCanucks 1 of 6\n\nShots on Goal-\tJets 7 5 10 - 22\n\t\tCanucks 9 12 12 - 33\n\nWinnipeg Jets--Essensa (0-1) (33 shots - 29 saves)\nVancouver Canucks--McLean (1-0) (22 shots - 20 saves)\n\nATT-15,918\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n", "\nMy apologies for the typo - I meant the Wings had 5 power plays in the\nfirst period and the Leafs none. \n\nAs well, my point isn't that the refs were biased, just that they were\ncalling a lot of penalties, which works to the benefit of the Wings.\n\nHaving the ref call a whole bunch of penalties against one team then\ncalling a bunch against the other to \"make up for it\" takes a lot away\nfrom what could have been a great game.\n\n\n", "\nfunny, it seems to me that the stats major league and minor league handbooks,\nwhich are nothing BUT collections of statistics, are authored by \"bill james\nand stats inc. (and howe, for the minor league handbook)\".\n\nand i am not sure how the 1993 bill james player ratings book qualifies\nas a \"book with statistics\", while the elias analyst is a \"statistics book\".\nthe analyst contains more stats, sure, but it also contains more dialogue.\n\nfinally, the point was not about the word \"statistics\". it was about\n\"money-grubbing\". i don't see how anyone who has looked at the bill\njames player ratings book cannot consider him money-grubbing.", "The Ottwawa Senators fired Mel Bridgman at 1:00 PM today.\nRandy Sexton is gonna replace him.\n", "I have two (2) bus tickets for sale from Bethlehem PA (Lehigh University) to\nPhiladelphia PA.\n\nTickets good until August 24, 1993.\n\n$15 for both OBO.\n\nPlease email at tsai@eniac.seas.upenn.edu or call (215)573-6252.", "BASEBALL.....ALWAYS\nhow he\n\n", "Why would Pollin want to move the Caps, because I think he\nowns the Cap Centre. I know they don't sell out all of their \ngames, but they draw a lot more than the Bullets. If you\nhad the situation that Abe had, would you move if you were\nguaranteed that anyone who went to the games would have to \npark at the stadium, because there has been nothing within\na half mile, until the recent construction in\nthe area.\n Can they win a game in OT again.\n Rich", "He \ndimmagio's.\n\nHenderson's stat's are probably closer to DiMaggio's than you\nthink.\n", "\nI would argue Gerald, that Bowman is the first \"modern\" coach.\nBowman's Canadiens were the first NHL team to have a weight-room\nin the 70s. He is the first coach I have seen, that manipulates\nthe press into spreading false game plan rumours. (During important games\nlisten to the pre-game interview will Bowman and compare that to\nwhat is on the ice!) I agree Bowman is a master of the lineups. \nRemember last year in the SC when he benched Jagr only to set him free \nin OT. When Jagr banged in the winning goal I thought this was\ntrademark Bowman and also a sign of a modern coach!\n\nI am left asking \"What is a modern coach if not Bowman?\"", "\ni have no idea, nor do i care. however, i'd like to point out that\nblomberg got the first plate appearance by a designated hitter, and\nthe first walk by a designated hitter. i am not sure, but i do not\nthink that he also got the first hit by a designated hitter.", "Did anyone notice the words \"NOT FOR BASEBALL\" printed on the picture\nof Joe Robbie Stadium in the Opening Day season preview section in USA\nToday? Any reason given for this?\n\nAlso, I just noticed something looking at the Nolan Ryan timeline in\nthe preview. On 8/22/89, Rickey Henderson became Nolan's 5000th strikeout.\nOn 6/11/90 he pitched his 6th no-hitter against Oakland. I believe the\nlast out in the game was made by Rickey Henderson. And on 5/1/91, Nolan\npitched his 7th no-hitter on the same day a certain someone stole his\n939th base, which overshadowed it. It seems that Nolan is having a lot of\npublicity at Rickey's expense. IMO, Rickey deserves it, and it seems as\nmost of the net agrees with me from what I've seen on it lately. They are\nboth great players, but IMO, Nolan has outclassed Rickey, both in playing\nand more importantly, in attitude. Just my thoughts.", "The best one I saw last year was Willie McGee off Matthews (I think?) in\nPhillie. A fierce line drive that was still rising when it hit thE\nsecond deck facade at the Vet. Willie McGee had one homerun last year.\n\n", "\"They're real and they're spectacular\", the Blues shutout the Blackhawks in\nconsecutive playoff games. \n\nIf the Blues sweep the Hawks on Sunday, I will launch a broom onto the ice\nin the last seconds of the game. \"Not that there's anything wrong with that.\"\n\nCurtis Joseph has been the \"master of his own domain\", and the Hawks have\nbeen shooting the puck like a bunch of \"chuckers\". Not even \"Superman\" could\nplay any better in goal. Joseph must have been eating his \"cereal.\"\n\n\"It's like a sauna in here\" said a spectator about the hot atmosphere and\nthe wild crowd at the Arena.\n\nIt was \"very refreshing\" to see the Blues \"double-dip\" the Hawks.\n\nThe Hawks goons tried to \"pick\" on Hull, Janney, and Joseph but the Blues\nchecking line \"nipped\" those Hawks real well.\n\nThe fat \"Yoyoma\" will sing on Sunday, and the Hawks will head to the \"beach\".\nThe Hawks' trip back to Chicago will feel like a long \"journey from Milan\nto Minsk\"\n\nEnjoy Sunday's game with some Junior Mints and wash them down with a Snapple.\n\nJust a little fun.", "Here are the results after three days of voting. Remember 3pts for \n1st, 2 for 2nd, and 1 for 3rd. Also, you can still turn in votes! And.. if\nthe guy isn't a regular goalie or he is retired, please include the team! \nThanks for your time, and keep on sending in those votes!\n\nPlayer Team Pts Votes\n-----------------------------------------------------------\n1. Brian Hayward San Jose 15 6\n Andy Moog Boston 15 6\n3. Curtis Joseph St. Louis 11 5\n4. Ed Belfour Chicago 10 5\n5. Gerry Cheevers Boston (retired) 5 3 \n Manon Rheaume Atlanta (IHL) 5 2\n Ron Hextall Quebec 5 2\n8. Don Beaupre Washington 4 2\n-----------------------------------------------------------\nOthers receiving 1 vote: Artus Irbe (SJ), Tim Cheveldae (Det),\n Clint Malarchuck (Buf/SD,IHL), Grant Fuhr (Buf), Rick Wamsley \n (Tor,ret), Jon Casey (Minn), John Vanbiesbrouck (NYR),\n Ken Dryden (Mon,ret), Bob Essensa (Win), Mike Vernon (Cal),\n Glenn Healy (NYI), Tommy Soderstron (???), Ray LeBlanc (USA).\n\n", "Jesus Christ!!!\n\nThe score is now 6-0. The Pens are beating the shit out of the Devils who\ngave up in the middle of the 2nd period. ESPN does something smart. The\nannouncer states \"well folks this game is getting out of hand. Lets go to\nthe Islander/Capitals game.\" I celebrate as I was actually making progress in\nmy CS homework because I was so bored by the scheduled game. I tear down and\nthrow on my jersey, Hunter scores I go ape shit 'cause this is the first\ncaps game I've been able to watch all season. And what does ESPN do? they\ngo back to the blowout that NJ hasn't a chance in hell of winning!\n The period ends and the sportscaster (CAPITOLS JUST TIED IT UP!! YES!!\noops excuse me =) goes into his penguin worship mode (Dont freak pens fans!\nThey are worthy of this! I'm so glad we wont have to play them as much next\nyear!) and here comes the 3rd period...what? its the blowout again. Oh they\nwere just waiting for the Cap/Isles to get out of intermission. Good\nthey've put a close game back on. Wait! WHATS THIS SHIT?!! THEY'RE SHOWING\nTHE BLOWOUT AGAIN!\n\n\nAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!\n\n(Oh guess what the score is now 7-0 penguins! Switch games you $%&*#@!!!)\n\nHoly shit they're changing games! ITS ABOUT GODDAMNED TIME!! Lets see if\nthey'll stay.\n\nLater\n\nI think this proves by $#%&* point. The Caps game goes into overtime but\n\"due to contractual obligations\" they have to switch to the fucking baseball.\n(Sorry for my language but im PISSED!) What the hell were they going to do\nif their scheduled game went into overtime? ESPN get your head out of your\nass.", "Yes, Yes, I can see it now >>>> all those Sabre fans FINALLY taking\ntheir Sabre sweaters out of the moth balls and proudly wearing them.\nAfter 9 years of playoff frustration and being up 3 games to nil\nI guess it is a pretty good bet. BUT there has not been a team\nthat has come back from an 0-3 deficit since 1975 - could this be\nthe year. (Don't throw out the moth balls yet)", "\nGee, you'd think Winnipeg would be tops on that list, what with 8 regulars\nbeing European.\n\n\n\nWell, being a Jet fan, I sometimes wish that Bure would get knocked silly\ntoo. (Nothing serious, just enough to keep him out of a game. :)\n\n\n\nIn most cases, the owners have very little to do with it. They give their\ngeneral managers one order when it comes to the draft...find me the best\nplayers so that our team will win the Stanley Cup. Whether that player is\nin Kindersley, Saskatchewan or Chelyabinsk, Russia, if the GM believes him\nto be the better player, the GM should be drafting him.\n\nWhere do you get off calling the NHL THEIR league, when referring to Canadian\nplayers. It doesn't belong to them, it belongs to the owners. The owners\ncan do what they want. While a 'Canadian content' rule might be enforcable\nhere in Canada, there is enough doubt that it would be enforcable in the US\nthat the CFL (sorry for the football reference) didn't even TRY to push their\nimport ratio rule on the Sacromento Goldminers.\n\nIncreasing the competition for the 'elite' positions, in most cases, would\nmake players better anyways. (Oh yeah, and how many Europeans play at the\nlower levels of professional hockey in North America? While there are some\nthat play in the AHL, or the IHL where that's an NHL team's primary farm\nclub, you don't hear of many Europeans playing in the CHL, the ECHL, or on\nthe secondary farm teams in the IHL. (ie. the Jets do have a few Russian\nplayers in Moncton, but I don't believe there are any Europeans in Ft. Wayne.))\nSo with all those teams, there are plenty of positions for hockey players\nin North America.\n\n\nI'm in favour of the NHL being the league for the premier players in the\nworld. I've grown up with Europeans playing on 'my' team, and some of those\nplayers were the among the best in the world. From Hedberg, Nilsson, and\nSjoberg, to Sel{nne, Zhamnov, and Olausson, and all those in between and to\ncome, I wouldn't have it any other way.", "\nBryan Murray has done very little as GM...Yzerman, Fedorov, Cheveldae,\nChaisson, the whole Russian strategy was a product of the previous\nGM...Murray has made a couple of decent trades...that's about it...\nthat would hardly rank him as the best GM.\n\nWasn't Primeau, Murray's first decision as GM...", "...\n\nThat is if Mario makes it.\n\nPat Walker sounds like the type that would bring an AK-47 to a game\nand take pot shots at Mario. (\"stand STILL...dam sunavbich...HMFF\")\n", "\n\nKelly Kisio was the captain of the Rangers when he left for San Jose.\n\n\n-- Ali.\n", "\n I'm sick too watching all-american names like GRETZKY etc.\n\n Which names you accept ? Sitting bull and dances with wolves ?\n\n It is North America. What are you doing here ?\n", "\nCENTERS\n[...]\n[...]\n\nSanderson will be on Team Canada, but he'd be out of position as a center.\nAlthough he was drafted as a center and played there as a rookie, Sanderson\nscored 46 goals this season as a left wing.", "Hi. According to my always questionable newspaper, there's a silver\ndollar being minted in Canada, the back of which commemorates the\nanniversary of the Stanley Cup. Now, I know full well what coins are\nused every day in Canada. I can easily fish a few out of my pocket\nchange right now, in fact. My question is, since the loon is the only\ndollar coin that I know is legal tender, is this just a commemorative\ncoin with no monetary exchange value, or what? Is it the sort of\nthing that only hockey buffs and coin collectors might covet, with no\nchance of it being circulated? If it is an uncirculated coin, what's\nthe current cost and what's its potential value? Just curious. If no\none knows, I'll take this to soc.culture.canada and rec.collecting (or\nwhatever it is). Thanks again\n", "Tom Barrasso wore a great mask, one time, last season. He unveiled it\nat a game in Boston. \n\nIt was all black, with Pgh city scenes on it. The \"Golden Triangle\"\n(Pgh's downtown area where the 3 rivers meet) graced the top, along\nwith a steel mill on one side and the Civic Arena (I think) on the \nother. On the back of the helmet was the old Pens' logo (the really\nfat little penguin with the blue scarf) the current (at the time) Pens\nlogo, and a space for the \"new\" (now current) logo.\n\nTommy had designed the mask, and his mother (an artist) painted it\nfor him. \n\nBut while wearing the mask, the Pens got thumped by the Bruins. The\nvery next game, Tommy was back to the old paint job. A great mask\ndone in by a goalie's superstition.", "\nI didn't say that pitcher's fear of throwing strikes to guys like\nMcGwire, Bonds, and Frank Thomas was rational. \nI just said that it exists.\n\n\nI don't know Alex Cole's batting style at all. Some questions:\nHow tall is he?\nDoes he go into a crouch like Rickey Hederson/Pete Rose?\nDoes he foul off a lot of pitches like Brett Butler?\nDoes he take 1 or 2 strikes in each at bat?\n\nIt could be the Cole has a good batting \"eye\".\nLook above, I said that *many* high OBP guys draw their walks because\npitchers are afraid to throw a strike to them, not \"all\" high OBP guys.", "\n\n Nice post Chuck, but you made just one mistake. Bones is a right-handed\n pitcher. However, Hrbek's grand slam came off Graehme Lloyd, a lefty.", "\n:>Does anybody in the Pittsburgh area know why Mike LaValliere was released?\n:>Last year I kept saying that Slaught should get the bulk of the playing time,\n:>that he was clearly the better player at this point, but Leyland insisted on\n:>keeping a pretty strict platoon. And now he is released? That doesn't\n:>make any sense to me.\n\nGreg,\n\n The story goes like this:\n\n Spanky is too slow! If he were quicker, he would still be here.\nBut with Slaught and Tom Prince, they didn't want to lose Prince in order\nto bring up that 11th pitcher. Slaught is about as good as Spanky and\nPrince is coming along nicely!\n\n Don't feel too bad for him. He's still gonna get theat $4,000,000\nover the next two years -- he'll be able to do most of what he wants to\ndo.\n", "Well, since someone probably wanted to know, here's this year's playoff\nmatchups on the left, and what the matchups would be next year under the\nnew alignment and playoff-matchup rules. The same 16 teams make the playoffs\nunder next year's rules, and three of the first round matchups are the same\n(QUE-MTL, CHI-STL, VAN-WIN).\n\nPIT --+ +-- CHI | PIT --+ +-- CHI\n +---+ +---+ | +---+ +---+\nNJ --+ | | +-- STL | BUF --+ | | +-- STL\n +---+ +---+ | +---+ +---+\nWAS --+ | | | | +-- DET | QUE --+ | | | | +-- TOR\n +---+ | | +---+ | +---+ | | +---+\nNYI --+ | | +-- TOR | MTL --+ | | +-- CAL\n +------+ | +------+\nBOS --+ | | +-- VAN | WAS --+ | | +-- VAN\n +---+ | | +---+ | +---+ | | +---+\nBUF --+ | | | | +-- WIN | NJ --+ | | | | +-- WIN\n +---+ +---+ | +---+ +---+\nQUE --+ | | +-- CAL | BOS --+ | | +-- DET\n +---+ +---+ | +---+ +---+\nMTL --+ +-- LA | NYI --+ +-- LA\n\n\n====================================================================\n Jim Murawski\n Sr. Software Engineer (412) 268-2650 [office]\n Administrative Computing and (412) 268-6868 [fax]\n Information Services jjm+@andrew.cmu.edu\n Carnegie Mellon University Office: UCC 155\n 4910 Forbes Avenue\n Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890\n\n \"Le Mieux! Le Magnifique! Soixante Six! Claude...NON!\"", "\n\n\nNot the first. RFK, olim DC Stadium, was built 2 years earlier.\nNowadays they don't move the seats back for the few exhibition\ngames; but the 3rd-base/LF lower deck used to move. It was all \nmetal, which was pretty noisy on Bat Day.\n\n\nIt's vastly better than it was before they fixed it, though. Back in\nthe late 70's it was a *dump*.", "\nI wholeheartedly endorse it.\n\n I have no problem with the\n\nHaven't been to many A's games, have you?\n\nSeriously, I don't mind a baseball game that lasts a long time if it lasts\na long time because there is good baseball being played. However, I don't\nlike 3-2 games that take 3+ hours, because there's a lot of dead time going\non in that game. I don't find anything exciting about watching batter or\npitcher wander around between pitches, or watching the catcher make a slow\nwalk to the mound, or watching lots of pitcher changes for no good reason\n(Whitey Herzog used to be the master of this; the game could be way out of\nreach, and he'd still be making switches for platoon advantage). \n\nI want to see the game, not people standing around. I don't really enjoy\nwatching NFL football games in person, for example, because there's so much\ndead time (you don't really notice how much dead time there is if you watch\nit on television, because they're busy showing you replays). I don't like\nthat college basketball games have so many time outs at the end of the game\n(the NCAA has made some moves to try to alleviate this problem for next\nyear: they're going to stop the clock after made baskets late in games next\nyear, and they're going to a 35 second clock). \n\nThere's also a difference in how tolerant I am of long games if I'm\nwatching them on the tube, and if I'm going there in person. For me, going\nto an A's game has become a major commitment of time, one that I'm not\nwilling to make that often: the length of their games is costing the A's\nrevenue from me.", "useless\nwhich of\nand\na\n\nBut ingnoring putouts is biased in yet another way. Range is\nnot the only thing that makes a good firstbaseman. The ability\nto field all sorts of balls thrown to him: digging some out of the\ndirt, stretching for others, and so forth is important. Thus, \nputouts do provide some information. Maybe what we need is a\ncomparision of how many balls were thrown to the area of the\nfirst baseman vs. how many he actually got.\n\n", "that they\nout the\nlittle\nwriting. \nRanger\nlast\nsee Mike\nwent\nwho is\nthe\npenalties and\nreason?\nIslander\ntest\nhard", "\nYour speculation that the two proven veterans will produce better\nthan Lopez is also no more than speculation. It *does* make\na difference whether the speculation is well-founded or not.\n \n\nThough this is a good point. The one speculation is \"safer\",\nbecause it can be reversed.", "Roger Maynard shares his views, with the masses, on Bob Gainey\nand life in general:\n \n \n \n \nIt was Bryan Trottier, not Denis Potvin. It was a vicious\n'boarding' from behind...Trottier was given a major.\n \nBut Roger, what the hell does this have to do with Gainey's skill\nas a hockey player? If Probert smashes Gilmour's head into the\nboards next week, will that diminish your assessment of Gilmour's\nskills?\n \n \nI would take Fuhr and Sanderson off of the latter.\n \nI think Gainey would be honoured to know that you've included him\non this list. I also think you have a relatively naive view\nabout what wins a hockey game...pluggers are an integral part of\nany team. The Selke is designed to acknowledge their\ncontribution...I think that most people understand that it's not\nthe Nobel Prize...so settle down.\n \n \n \n \ncongenially, as always,\n \njd\n \n--\nJames David\ndavid@student.business.uwo.ca", "\nYou're definitely correct in that Williams absolutely has to be sandwiched\nin between Clark and Bonds. He must, and I mean MUST, get fastballs to\nhit...otherwise he becomes little more than Sixto Lezcano in disguise.\nWhat I would suggest is perhaps batting Bonds, Williams, and Clark\n3-4-5, the reason being that I feel Bonds' potential basestealing\nabilities are wasted when he's stuck behind two slow runners.\nI think the chance of getting 20-30 extra stolen bases with Bonds in the\n3 spot would more than offset any drop in in run production by having \nClark in the 5 spot.", "Anyone have the AL individual stats or where i can find them?", "Don't knock Vaughn for being a spring training .400 hitter\nbut a .250 regular season hitter.\nAround 30 games played isn't an indication of how good any\nhitter is, and the quality of pitching is way down.\n\nRyan Robbins\nPenobscot Hall\nUniversity of Maine", "Here is an update on the Goalie mask poll...\n\tFirst, since so many people gave me their 3 best, I decided to\ngive 3 pts for their favorite, 2 pts for 2nd, 1 for 3rd. If you e-mailed\na response with only one, I gave it 3 pts. Please feel free to send me\nyour 2 other favorites, if you only sent one before. \n\tAlso, votes are still welcome! Any mask you like will do, as I \nhave received votes for players not in the NHL. Please mention what team\nthey play for, though.\n\tSo here are the up-to-date results so far:\n\nPlayer Team Pts Votes\n-------------------------------------------------------\n1. Ed Belfour Chicago 8 4\n Andy Moog Boston 8 3\n3. Curtis Joseph St. Louis 5 2\n4. Brian Hayward San Jose 4 2\n5. Grant Fuhr Buffalo 3 1\n Ron Hextall Quebec 3 1\n7. Clint Malarchuk Buffalo 2 1\n Manon Rheaume Atlanta (IHL) 2 1\n9. John Casey Minnesota 1 1\n Rick Wamsley Toronto (retired) 1 1\n\n\tThanks to all that voted, and keep 'em coming!\n", "All these people who send in their polls should take a closer look at\nNJD, they are a very deep team, with two very capable goalies, and\nexcellent forwards and defensemen. Shooter in Richer, an all around do\nit all in Todd, chef Stasny-master of a thousand dishes, power play\ncaptain-Stevens. Take a look at the numbers, or play with them and see\nfor yourselves.\n", "Can someone send me ticket ordering information for the\nfollowing teams: Baltimore, Philadelphia and Boston.\n\nAlso, if you have a home schedule available - can you tell me the dates\nfor all home games between July26-Aug6 and between Aug30-Sept10 and if\nany of these games are promotion nights or special discount nights?\n\nThanks !!! Ron\n\nPS: and also who the opponents are for these games :-)\n\nDo NOT reply to this account,\nplease reply to: ronc@vnet.ibm.com", "\nGeez. Everyone comes up with Clark, Williams, Thompson. These guys\nwere all up in 1987. That's ancient history. So in the last 6 years,\nnoone, right? Beck doesn't count. I said 2 solid years.\n\n\nLet's see what he does w/o the help of a pitchout every other pitch.\nAs I remember, even Bob Brenly had a good throwout percentage under\nRoger Craig, who loved to sacrifice the count for runners being thrown\nout. Of course, he suffered from 3 ball 1 strike homers a lot too.\nI am not a big fan of Manwaring.\n", "\n As a person who has rarely even SEEN Don Cherry and doesn't know\nanything about him, I don't know whether it is just this area\n(Pittsburgh) of the USA that is \"deprived\" of his broadcasts or whether\nhe's a Canadian thing altogether. Seriously, what is he all about? I\nknow he was a coach at one time, and from the volume of posts about him,\nSOMEONE surely is getting a steady diet of him somehow, but my question\nis, what is the deal with him? Secondly, are the comments of his that I\nread about on the net merely flame bait, or do people actually take him\nseriously? I gotta tell you, from what I see, he really sounds like an\nass. Let me know - maybe I'm missing something.\n\n", "(FRANK MICH\neven show\n\n\nAt least your parents didn't move you Idaho. The only things that get\nany coverage there are football, basketball and baseball!", "Ted Frank's list of underpaid players was this:\n\nWhat do all of these players have in common? They do not qualify for \narbitration. They were never free agents.\n\nIt's called the reserve clause. Look it up.\n\nAnd a year from now we will whine about how several of these guys are way \noverpaid and getting outrageous raises in arb. Humbug.", "I believe that Rusty Staub was also a jewish ball-player\nAlso, Mordaci Brown back in the early 20th century. He was a pitcher whose\nnickname was \"3 fingers\" Brown....for obvious reasons....he had 3 fingers.\n", "1993 World Championships in Germany:\n ====================================\n\n Group A standings (Munich) Group B standings (Dortmund)\n -------------------------- ----------------------------\n\n GP W T L GF-GA +/- P GP W T L GF-GA +/- P\n\n Canada 3 3 0 0 17- 1 +16 6 Czech republic 3 2 1 0 8- 1 +7 5\n Russia 3 2 1 0 12- 4 +8 5 Finland 3 2 1 0 5- 1 +4 5\n Sweden 3 2 0 1 8- 6 +2 4 USA 3 1 2 0 8- 3 +5 4\n Italy 3 1 1 1 5- 8 -3 3 Germany 3 2 0 1 11- 8 +3 4\n ---------------------------------- -------------------------------------\n Switzerland 3 0 0 3 0- 9 -9 0 France 3 0 0 3 4-13 -9 0\n Austria 3 0 0 3 2-16 -14 0 Norway 3 0 0 3 0-10 -10 0\n\n \n April 18: Italy - Russia 2-2 Norway - Germany 0-6\n Sweden - Austria 1-0 USA - Czech republic 1-1\n\n April 19: Canada - Switzerland 2-0\n Russia - Austria 4-2 Finland - France 2-0\n\n April 20: Sweden - Canada 1-4 Czech republic - Germany 5-0\n Switzerland - Italy 0-1 Finland - USA 1-1\n\n April 21: Germany - France 5-3\n Italy - Sweden 2-6 Czech republic - Norway 2-0\n\n April 22: Switzerland - Russia 0-6 USA - France 6-1\n Austria - Canada 0-11 Norway - Finland 0-2\n\n April 23: Switzerland - Austria Germany - Finland\t\t20:00\n\n April 24: Russia - Sweden Czech republic - France\t15:30\n Canada - Italy USA - Norway\t\t20:00\n\n April 25: Sweden - Switzerland Finland- Czech republic \t15:30\n Russia - Canada Germany - USA\t\t20:00\n\n April 26: Austria - Italy France - Norway\t\t20:00\n\n \n PLAYOFFS:\n =========\n\n April 27:\tQuarterfinals\n\t\tA #2 - B #3\t\t\t\t\t\t15:30\n\t\tA #3 - B #2\t\t\t\t\t\t20:00\n\n April 28:\tQuarterfinals\n\t\tA #1 - B #4\t\t\t\t\t\t15:30\n\t\tA #4 - B #1\t\t\t\t\t\t20:00\n\n April 29:\tRelegation\n\t\tA #5 - B #6\t\t\t\t\t\t15:30\n\t\tA #6 - B #5\t\t\t\t\t\t20:00\n\n April 30:\tSemifinals\n\t\tA #1/B #4 - A #3/B #2\t\t\t\t\t15:30\n\t\tA #4/B #1 - A #2/B #3\t\t\t\t\t20:00\n\n May 1:\t\tRelegation\t\t\t\t\t\t14:30\n\t\tBronze medal game \t\t\t\t\t19:00\n\n May 2:\t\tFINAL\t\t\t\t\t\t\t15:00\n", "\nMike Vernon is now 3 wins 11 losses plus that All-Star game debacle in\nafternoon games during his career...with another afternoon game with\nLos Angeles next Sunday...has the ABC deal doomed the Flames?", "\n\n\nI didn't mean that it would necessarily help him improve at that\nspecific deficiency. I meant that if having Bonds bat behind him\ngives Williams (possibly unfounded) confidence, that might translate\ninto more hitting productivity. But you're right -- if Williams'\nbiggest problem is more physical than mental, that's less likely\nto make a difference.", "so.\ndone,\ncareer\n\n\nVelarde hasn't been to Columbus, if I recall, for about three\nyears. Granted, he hasn't been a full time player but\nwhen he does play I've always thought he had a good bat.\nHe might be demoralized about not playing full time, but\nhe hasn't been shuttled around. I think he's been in New York\never since he had 34 hits in 100 AB back in 1989, or 90, I\nbelieve. \nI don't think he is gold glove calibre, but he doesn't boot\nit around either. I think if Velarde is given a chance,\nhe could become extremely productive. I don't have any stats\nto back this up, and I don't know if his Defense would\ncost any games, but I think he could help - and he has\nthis year. He has 3 HR already. Same goes for\nJim Leyrtiz. He has a big mouth, but he does get\nthe job done when he concentrates. I think the situation\nwith Leyritz is that he believes he is a potential\nsuper-star, and he gets pissed about not playing. I\nthink he might have realized something when the Marlins\nor Rockies didn't select him.\nThe Yanks need to worry about the Bullpen right now.\nKamieniecki and Wickman/Militello in the bullpen?\nOuch. I'm praying that the BP will return to last year's\nform....\n\n", "Locked away, waiting for the tape-delay to start ...\n\nIt's nice that the Devils are starting out their playoffs on network\ntelevision ... too bad that their playoff game has been preempted on\nWABC-AM for an early-season Yankees baseball game!\n\nIt's a 12-2 win by the Texas Rangers ... and they're delaying the\ntape-delay by another half-hour for the ballgame \"highlights\"!!!\n\ngld", "\nThis list is published every week in Baseball Weekly.\n-- \n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nBrian Curran Mead Data Central brian@meaddata.com ", "\n The Giants always hit Maddux well, but it was interesting that Maddux\ndid not pitch around Bonds to get to Clayton last night. He threw 2 straight\nfastballs over the plate to Bonds in the 1st last night, got away with the\nfirst one, but Bonds hit the second one out of the park. Then in the 3rd,\nwhen Clark was at third base with one out, Maddux did not intentionally\nwalk Bonds, and Bonds dropped a single to left-center.\n\n The Braves announcers pointed out that McGee as a leadoff hitter has\nnot scored a run yet. He will always hit around .300, but I'm concerning\nabout his on-base percentage. The key in the lineup is Matt Williams, he\nhas to stay hot so that Bonds can hit with runners on base.\n\n\n\n The pitching gets a set back as Bud Black is placed on the DL. Burba\nhas done a superb job filling in so far, he looks like a different pitcher\nfrom last year. However, Swift is terrible in both of his starts. With\nBurba moving into the rotation, Mike Jackson is the only right-handed\nreliever aside from Rod Beck, he'll get a lot of actions. I also hope that\nDusty can manage his bullpen better than Roger Craig, especially on Beck.\nI was concerned when Beck was used for 3 straight days earlier this week.\n\n\n\n So far so good!\n", "SH>I'm a hockey fan from way back, and maintain an interest as best I can\n >here in the hockey hinterlands (Oklahoma). I'm hoping I can get a\n >reading from some of you about the move of the North Stars to Dallas.\n\nSH>I've been under the impression that Minnesota was one of, or possibly,\n >THE hockey state in the U.S. So why is the team moving to a city in\n >Texas? Is it that the owner is a greedy, self-serving profiteer, or\n >were the Stars really not making a profit? Or was the city or whoever\n >owned the arena doing some price gouging?\n\nSH>As much as I'd like to see the NHL only a 3 hour drive from me, I\n >can't help but feel for the people in Minnesota, unless they truly\n >didn't support the team.\n\nSH>Opinions, please.\n\nI used to work for the Stars. Minnesota supported the team to an\nextent. When I was there, we had quite afew sellouts (This was the\nseason after the cup run and during the finals). Norm's main bitch was\nthat there wasn't enough luxury suites. And, the ones he had were not\nalways full. He wanted more boxes and wanted them full. He was just\nasking for too much from people that could go and see other hockey games\nat High Schools for $5 or college for about $10 that would probably be\nbetter.\n\nMark\n\n þ QMPro 1.01 41-6393 þ Radioactive cats are very, very HOT!", "I'd love to see a Shea Stadium gif.\n\n\n -Sean\n\n", "\nWhy? I'm calling this Penguins ... in 6. Only that with the way \nthings stand, the only radio game at that hour is from the Devils\non WABC, 770 AM. It'd be nice to have a Sony Watchman, but ...\n\nNo need to be paranoid, Robbie. Don't judge me by my geographic\ncoordinates ...\n\nJets over Nordiques in the final ... 7.\n\ngld", "I'm no Kingman fan. Just thought I'd point out that he's the\nonly player in history to have five three-HR games. Joe Carter\nhas four. Eddie Murray three. McCovey and Gehrig also three.\nRuth, Mays, Foxx and Dawson two each.\n\nI don't think Reggie's WS game counts, else I believe he would \nalso have had two.\n\n\n--\tThe Beastmaster\n", "\n\nOh, this is an easy trivia question. The answer is \"any Cub not named\nSandberg or Grace.\"\n\n", "So if Potvin can pound on Dino, what happens when Dino pounds \non him? If Dino gets his legs slashed, can he slash Potvin\nin return? This year at a UM-LSSU hockey game, a UM player\nwas called for a slash when he hit the goalie's glove with\nhis stick. Is that slashing, while hitting someone's ankles\nisn't? How do the refs know what to call? Do the goalies\nget more liberties than other players?\n", "\n\nOK, the Mets and O's are good examples, but what about the '90 Reds? Do you\nreally think that anyone expected them to sweep the A's? I know people who\ndidn't even think they'd win a game, let alone win the Series. We proved \nthem wrong, though, didn't we?\n\nAs for this year, ignore their record now. They've had a rocky start, and\nthat has nothing to do with Colorado. They shall rise again. The hunt for\na Reds' October continues. (with all due respect to WLW) Bye.\n\n", "Don't you GUYS think so? I mean, c'mon! What the heck are women doing\neven THINKING of getting into baseball. They cause so many problems. Just\nlook at Lisa Olson. Remember that feisty reporter that entered the New\nEngland Patriots locker room? She started crying like a LITTLE GIRL! I\njust don't think women belong in a man's sport. Before you smart guys\nflame me for this, I know the given example was about football. Who cares?\n It still applies to other MALE sports. How can we have women umpires? \nJeez! Look at Pam Postema. Just because she's a woman, everybody on the\nface of the earth thinks it's great that she's getting an opportunity to\nump. If you even watched the games and had an IQ greater than that of\nroast beef, you'd see that she is not nearly as good as most AAA umpires.\nBesides, she is probably more worried about cracking a fingernail with a\nfoul tip off of Wade Boggs' bat. Or Jose Oquendo's bat. Either way, there\nare too many complications.\n", "You think that's bad? I'm in Bowling Green, OH, and we get ABC from\nToledo. Well, the cable co. decided to totally pre-empt the game (no tape\ndelay, no nothing) for a stupid telethon! Hockey is very big around here,\ntoo. I had to listen to \"my\" Penguins win on my car radio out in the\nparking lot. I can just be thankful for a strong radio because being 230\nmiles from Pittsburgh, the reception usually isn't good at all. I can't\nbelieve I picked it up during the middle of the day.", "\n\nThat's why we have expansion - to create more jobs. NHL teams can't afford to\nimport role players from Europe, they pick the stars but will continue to build\ntheir teams around local players.\n\nI'd *LOVE* to see a European NHL division but can't see it happen for some\ntime. There's simply not enough fan interest at the moment in several\n\"crucial\" markets like Germany, Italy and France while Sweden and Finland\nprobably can't afford to shell out $20-$30 for tickets the way\nAmerican/Canadian fans do. Call it \"the Minnesota North Stars\" effect:\nScandinavians do love hockey but we prefer to watch local, inexpensive\nhockey to the NHL. The National Hockey League should love the idea, though.\nPan-European TV channels such as Eurosport could bring in the millions the\nAmerican networks likely never will pay.", "Tuesday, and the isles/caps game is going into overtime.\nwhat does ESPN do.....\n\nTom Mees says, \"we are obligated to bring you baseball\"\n\nI hate to say this, but last year the coverage of the playoffs on\nsports channel america (out in colorado) was vastly superior\nto what espn is giving us this year.\n-- ", "Excuse me, but if you really new what the show was about, you'd know that he\ndoesn't just say vagina and penis and that is how he get's his ratings. He\nalso addresss real issues as well as being outrageous. I don't hear any of these\nother idiots doing a funny show and getting into some serious topics at the\nsame time, he get's people to think and entertains them at the same time, \nso try listening to his show a little closer before you tell them that they are\nWRONG, and by the way, if he is such a flash in the pan, why do his ratings sustain\nso well? Hmm?\n\n\n\n\n-- \n-----------------------------------------------\nGreg W. Lazar greg@puck.webo.dg.com\n\nJ-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS", "Ok guys, I need a list of the teams who have been hot or cold during the\nlast 25 games. Doesn't need to be accurate, a rough guess will do. I'm\nabout to enter a playoff pool and I want to know who is hot going into\nthe playoffs. Don't need to mention Pittsburgh. They can't get any hotter\nthan they are now.\n\n\nP.S. I need this by Sunday", "\nI would assume that the words (I saw the picture) indicated that those \nSEATS will not be available for baseball games. If you look at the picture \nof the diamond in the stadium, in relation to the areas marked \"NOT FOR \nBASEBALL\", those seats just look terrible for watching baseball. Now, if \nthey should happen to reach the post-season, I would imagine that they \nwould consider opening some of those seats up, but that is surely a worry \nof the future.\n\n \n\n\nSam Lubchansky spl2@po.cwru.edu\n\n\"In the champion, people see what they'd like to be. In the loser,\n they see what they actually are, and they treat him with scorn.\"", "I read this morning that Sid Fernandez left last nights' game with stiffness\nin his shoulder. Does anyone have any information as to the extent of the\ninjury (if indeed there is one), or weather the cold air in Colorado just got\nhis joints a little stiff?\n\nThanks for the help...", "\n >\n >\n >>Jagr has a higher +/-, but Francis has had more points. And take it from\n >>an informed observer, Ronnie Francis has had a *much* better season than\n >>Jaromir Jagr. This is not to take anything away from Jaro, who had a \n >>decent year (although it didn't live up to the expectations of some).\n >\n >Bowman tended to overplay Francis at times because he is a Bowman-style\n >player. He plays hard at all times, doesn't disregard his defensive\n >responsibilities and is a good leader. Bowman rewarded him be increasing his\n >ice time.\n >\n >Jagr can be very arrogant and juvenile and display a \"me first\" attitude.\n >This rubbed Bowman the wrong way and caused him to lose some ice time.\n >\n >Throughout the year, Francis consistently recieved more ice time than\n >Jagr. Althouhg I have never seen stats on this subject, I am pretty\n >sure that Jagr had more points per minute played that Francis. When\n >you add to that Jagr's better +/- rating, I think it becomes evident\n >that Jagr had a better season- not that Francis had a bad one.\n >\n\n Actually, what I think has become more evident, is that you are determined to\n flaunt your ignorance at all cost. Jagr did not have a better season than\n Francis ... to suggest otherwise is an insult to those with a modicum of\n hockey knowledge. Save your almost maniacal devotion to the almighty\n plus/minus ... it is the most misleading hockey stat available.\n\n Until the NHL publishes a more useful quantifiable statistic including ice\n time per game and some measure of its \"quality\" (i.e., is the player put out\n in key situations like protecting a lead late in the game; is he matched up\n against the other team's top one or two lines; short-handed, etc), I would\n much rather see the +/- disappear altogether instead of having its dubious\n merits trumpeted by those with little understanding of its implications.\n\nThank you for posting this. As the person who first brought up the\nfact that Jagr has a much higher +/- than Francis, I can assure you\nthat I brought it up as an example of the absurdity of +/-\ncomparisons, even on the same team. I never, ever thought that anyone\nwould argue that Jagr's higher +/- actually reflected better two-way\nplay.\n\nIn my opinion, Francis's low +/- is purely a result of him being asked\nto play against opponents top scorers at all times; the fact that he\ncan chip in 100 points while neutralizing the other team's top center\nis a testament to how valuable he is, even if his +/- suffers. On the\nother hand, Jagr, for how big, fast and skilled he is, can't even get\n90 points, no matter how inflated his +/- is.\n\n(By the way, don't get me wrong -- I like Jagr. He may be a lazy\nfloater, but he turns it on at exactly the right times -- like\novertime of playoff games).\n", "\nNah, Cherry will only spew if Ulf was nailing \"a good Canadian boy\".\n\nWhat an idiot... if this is the heart and soul of Canadian patriotism, \nthen someone needs a new hobby...", "\nI'll post my guesses to some of these and other trivia questions posted.\n\nFor most career K's with one team, if it's not Ryan, perhaps Steve Carlton.\nWith the Rangers, Hough was there for a long time.\n\nIn the 100 saves department...Maybe Lee Smith(he should have at least\na hundred with the Cubbies, maybe enough with either the RSox or Cards.)\nThen maybe, Gossage?(NYY and SD), Fingers (MIL, OAK)\n\nDon't know about the homers/steals dept.\n\nIn some other article,(Mets trivia), it could be Tim Leary in at least\nthe losing to all teams, maybe beating all of 'em too. Probably Seaver\nand Koosman fit too.\n\nAnd in Randy Johnson's no-hitter, I think it was Scott Bradley, the\nother half of the old Mariner catching platoon, who was behind the plate\nthat night.", "\n\n\n\n\n\nI meant to comment on this at the time.\n\nThere's just no way baserunning could be that important - if it was,\nruns created wouldn't be nearly as accurate as it is. \n\nRuns Created is usually about 90-95% accurate on a team level, and\nthere's a lot more than baserunning that has to account for the\nremaining percent.", "Is there anyone out there running a Chicago National\n\tLeague Ballclub list? If so, please send me information\n\ton it to...\n\t\t\tandrew@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu\n\n\tThanks!", "Being a baseball fan and a fan of the above mentioned band I was\nwondering if anyone could clue me in on whether the Dead (or members\nof) sang the national anthem at todays Giant opener?\n\nI would imagine that it is a bit too early for anyone to know, but\nan answer would be greatly appreciated.\n\n\n Curious,\n Robert", "\n\nI watched him over his entire career. I have NEVER seen a player, and that\nincludes Russell Courtnall and Davie Keon, screw up as many breakaways as\nBob Gainey. And I will never forget the time Denis Potvin caught Gainey\nwith his head down. You have been sold a bill of goods on Bob Gainey.\n\nGainey was a plugger. And when the press runs out of things to say about \nthe stars on dynasties they start to hype the pluggers. Grant Fuhr, Essa\nTikkannen, Butch Goring, Bob Nystrom, Bob Gainey, Doug Jarvis, Derek\nSanderson, Wayne Cashman, Bob Baun, Bob Pulford, Ralph Backstrom, Henri\nRichard, Dick Duff...and so on...\n\ncordially, as always,\n\nrm\n", ": you mention could cut it as stars in the NHL! Even \"Rexi\" in his prime was more\n: of a good regular in New York/Edmonton than a superstar in his own right,\n: although some blamed that on lack of effort on his behalf.\n:\nI think that the NY management made a mistake, and remember how Edmonton \ncalled Reksa in the middle of the season to win the cup ? Why did they call\nhim?\n \n: Yeah, we've had a tendency to beat ourselves in the past. I almost knifed my\n: brother in anger when Sweden scored two in the final minute of the WC \n: semifinals back in 1986:-) Or what about the three goals Antero Kivela let in\n: with five minutes to go against the Russkies in Lake Placid'80? Ugh . . . \n\nO.K., that was BAD luck. If Penguins have the same kind of luck this year in\nthe playoffs, they'll never win the cup. They are still the best team.\n", "I plan on being in the Toronto area sometime this summer (late June or\nearly July) and would like to attend a Blue Jay game. I would\nappreciate if anyone could give me information on how to obtain\ntickets for Blue Jay games. I would prefer to get good seats and I\nassume this would require going through some ticket broker and paying\n$$$$. Ticket broker info for the Toronto area and/or ticket info\ndirectly through the Blue Jays would be appreciated (I'll bring oxygen\nif need be.) My schedule is flexible so any games are candidates\n(though I'd prefer to see Texas.)\n\nThanks in advance.", "UPI Clarinet has just relayed a \"scoop\" from the Toronto Sun\n(or was that Star? I like the Star myself ...) that Iron Mike\nKeenan has come to an agreement with the New York Rangers for\nnext season. Interestingly, this comes the day after the Times\nSports had an editorial about how the Rangers need their own\nPat Riley ... who cares about what happens after next season?\n\ngld", "Well Bruins fans it's playoff time again.\nIt looks like the B's have peaked at the right time.\nGetting out of the Adams is going to be a cat fight to the end.\nAfter what they did to Montreal and Quebec, these teams will be out for\nrevenge. If Neely can stay healthy, and both Bourque and Moog stay sharp,\nwe should get to see Neely finally take out two years of frustration \non Ulf (I don't fight) Samuelson. I don't agree with fighting in the NHL,\nbut if there is one guy who deserves to be taken out good, it's him.\n\nThis is going to be a good series, Go Bruins!!!!\n", "\n\tDummy Hoy, a late 19th-Century baseball player, was deaf. In\norder for him to be able to find out whether the pitch was a ball or\nstrike, the umpires developed hand signals. This also helped to relieve\nthe stress on umpires' vocal cords, so they didn't have to shout \"STRIKE!!!\"\nor \"BALL!!!!!\" 350 times a game...\n\tHeard about this one from the only worthwhile baseball book\nJohn Thorn has ever authored, \"A Century of Baseball Lore\" :-) ", "\n > Bruins have never come back to win after falling behind 2-0 in\n > their entire 68-year history.\n\n Which doesn't mean much since the statistics are mostly based on\nthe 5-game playoff format. But, yes, it looks dark for the B's. What a\ndisappointment.\n\n Still, I think the problem is mental. They needed the saves Blue\ncame up with, perhaps he can offer something to mentally rally around.\n\n Who do you think gets the start in game three? I hope it is going\nto be Blue. If the team can rally around him, maybe Moog can too.\n", "boards injuring his shoulder and they blotted out the injury report.\n\nThe Wings player was Yves Racine, and he returned later in that same period.", "\nIt was Clint Malarchuk\n\nWhatever happened to him, anyway?", "I hear ya! Then again, we must remember that we are indeed Cub fans, and\nthat the Cubs will eventually blow it. After all, the Cubs are the easiest\nteam in the National League to root for. No Pressure. You know they will\nlose eventually. Oh well, I suppose we must have faith. After all, they\ndo look pretty good, and they don't even have Sandberg back yet. \n\nCUBS IN '93!!!!!", "\n\n\n\n\n\nHow is that possible? He was on the Albuquerque Leftturns last year.\nHow could you possibly know what team he would be on if Manny Lee was\non his team last year. After all, Manny Lee wasn't on his team last year,\nso it's complete, unfounded speculation to state that if he was on the\nsame team as Manny Lee last year, it would have been the team of the\nToronto Blue Jays. Since he and Lee weren't on the same team, you\ncannot possibly objectively state what team they would have been on\nif they had both been on the same team.", "\n\n\n\n\nWiggins, Alan?\n\nBut that's besides the point. I'm sure people would feel slightly\nsympathetic for Rickey if he were killed. But, they would also be\ncriticizing him a lot more for his actions.\n\nExample? \n\nHow about Jose Canseco? He gets a couple of speeding tickets, and all\nof the sudden his attitude is awful. What the hell do speeding tickets\nhave to do with clubhouse influence anyway? So why do sportswriters\ntalk about it all the time.\n\nOr Brian Hunter and Keith Mitchell? Both of whom had DWI problems\ntowards the end of last year. (Two years ago?) It was cited as a sign\nof their immaturity, etc. \n\nMeanwhile, Dykstra almost killed both himself and Daulton, and I didn't\nread any sportswriter complaining about that. They may have talked\nabout how bad it was for the Phillies, but I NEVER read anywhere\ncriticism of Dykstra's character (or Daulton's intelligence, for that\nmatter) based on this incident.\n", "Archive-name: hockey-faq\n\nrec.sport.hockey answers to Frequently Asked Questions and other news:\n \nContents:\n\n0. New Info.\n1. NHL\n2. NHL Minor Leagues\n3. College Hockey (North America)\n4. Other leagues (e.g. Europe, Canada Cup tournament)\n5. E-mail files\n6. USENET Hockey Pool\n7. Up-coming Dates\n8. Answers to some frequently asked questions\n9. Miscellaneous\n \n Send comments, suggestions and criticisms regarding this FAQ list via e-\nmail to hamlet@u.washington.edu.\n \n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\n \n 0. New Info.\n \n This section will describe additions since the last post so that you can \ndecide if there is anything worth reading. Paragraphs containing new \ninformation will be preceded by two asterisks (**).\n\n 1.: New Anaheim contact, Winnipeg to keep affiliate in Moncton.\n 2.: New Milwaukee contact, IHL broadcaster of the year named, Rheaume to \nstart against Cyclones, San Diego sets record.\n 3.: Ticket info included for 1994 NCAA Division I Championships.\n 4.: World Championship Pool B results listed, Sweden Hockey Games final \nstandings listed, Swedish Elite League final standings listed, new Olypmic \nHockey mailing list.\n 5.: New Montreal mailing list address.\n 6.: \n 7.: \n 8.: \n 9.: \n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\n \n 1. NHL - National Hockey League\n \n For detailed information concerning a team (particularly where to get \ntickets and merchandise, where to watch games in town....), send e-mail to \nthe net contact(s) for the team.\n\n First # of Last\n Team Div Season Cups Cup Net Contacts\n --------------------- --- ------ ---- ------ ----------------------\n**\n Anaheim Mighty Ducks - 93-94 - - Kris Myers\n kris@fs2.assist.uci.edu\n Boston Bruins A 24-25 5 71-72 \n Buffalo Sabres A 70-71 0 - Jeff Horvath\n jhorvath@macc.wisc.edu\n Calgary Flames S 80-81* 1 88-89 CALDWELL8102@mtroyal.ab.ca\n Chicago Blackhawks N 26-27 3 60-61 John Scholvin\n scholvin@casbah.acns.nwu.edu\n Detroit Red Wings N 33-34* 7 54-55 SGLENN@cmsa.gmr.com\n Edmonton Oilers S 79-80* 5 89-90 Andrew Scott\n andrew@idacom.hp.com\n Hartford Whalers A 79-80* 0 - Matthew Olsen\n dmolsen@athena.mit.edu\n Los Angeles Kings S 67-68 0 - Stan Willis\n willis@empire.dnet.hac.com\n Minnesota North Stars N 67-68* 0 - Mitch McGowan\n hamlet@u.washington.edu\n Montreal Canadiens A 17-18 22 85-86 \n New Jersey Devils P 82-83* 0 - \n New York Islanders P 72-73 4 82-83 Mark Anania\n ananim@rpi.edu\n New York Rangers P 26-27 3 39-40 Paul Romano\n romano@monolith.bellcore.com\n Ottawa Senators A 92-93 0 - Scott Simpson\n simpson@bnr.ca\n Philadelphia Flyers P 67-68 2 74-75 Pete Clark\n seth@hos1cad.att.com\n Pittsburgh Penguins P 67-68 2 91-92 Lori Iannamico\n lli+@cs.cmu.edu\n Thomas Sullivan\n tms@cs.cmu.edu\n Quebec Nordiques A 79-80* 0 -\n St. Louis Blues N 67-68 0 - Joseph Achkar\n jca2@cec1.wustl.edu\n San Jose Sharks S 91-92 0 - Nelson Lu\n claudius@leland.stanford.edu\n**\n South Florida - 93-94 - - \n Tampa Bay Lightning N 92-93 0 - Tom Wilson\n wilson@eola.cs.ucf.edu\n Toronto Maple Leafs N 26-27* 11 66-67 Darryl Gamble\n darryl@cs.yorku.ca\n Vancouver Canucks S 70-71 0 - Alan Chim\n chim@sfu.ca\n Washington Capitals P 74-75 0 - David Lu\n david@eng.umd.edu\n Winnipeg Jets S 79-80* 0 - umturne4@ccu.umanitoba.ca\n \n A=Adams N=Norris P=Patrick S=Smythe\n \n *Calgary: formerly Atlanta Flames (72/73-79/80)\n Detroit: formerly Detroit Cougars (26/27-29/30) -> Detroit Falcons \n(30/31-32/33)\n Edmonton: formerly Alberta Oilers (WHA) (72/73) -> Edmonton Oilers (WHA) \n(72/73-78/79)\n Hartford: formerly New England Whalers (WHA) (72/73-78/79)\n Minnesota: Cleveland Barons were merged with Minnesota for the 1978/79 \nseason.\n New Jersey: formerly Kansas City Scouts (74/75-75/76) -> Colorado \nRockies (76/77-81/82)\n Quebec: formerly Quebec Nordiques (WHA) (72/73-78/79)\n Toronto: formerly Toronto Arenas (17/18-18/19) -> Toronto St. Patricks \n(19/20-25/26)\n Winnipeg: formerly Winnipeg Jets (WHA) (72/73-78/79)\n\n Teams with mailing lists, see section 5 for addresses: Boston, Buffalo, \nLos Angeles, Montreal, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, San Jose, \nTampa Bay, Vancouver, Washington.\n\n-----\n \n- Schedule\n\n 1992-1993 Schedule for the NHL\n\n April\n Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat\n+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+\n! ! ! ! ! 1 ! 2 ! 3 !\n! ! ! ! !Min @ Cal!Mon @ Was!Buf @ Bos!\n! ! ! ! !Det @ Chi!NYI @ NYR!Cal @ SJ !\n! ! ! ! !Har @ Pit! !Chi @ StL!\n! ! ! ! !Que @ Ott! !Van @ Det!\n! ! ! ! !Tor @ Phi! !Win @ Edm!\n! ! ! ! !Win @ SJ ! !Ott @ Har!\n! ! ! ! !Van @ TB ! !Min @ LA !\n! ! ! ! ! ! !Mon @ NYI!\n! ! ! ! ! ! !NJ @ Tor!\n! ! ! ! ! ! !TB @ Phi!\n! ! ! ! ! ! !Pit @ Que!\n+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+\n! 4 ! 5 ! 6 ! 7 ! 8 ! 9 !10 !\n!Bos @ Buf!Har @ NYR!Bos @ Que!Edm @ Van!Que @ Bos!Van @ Cal!Bos @ Mon!\n!Cal @ SJ ! !Buf @ Min!Har @ Ott!Chi @ NYI!Pit @ NYR!Buf @ Det!\n!StL @ Chi! !Cal @ LA !Mon @ Pit!Det @ TB ! !Chi @ TB !\n!Pit @ NJ ! !Edm @ SJ !NYR @ NJ !SJ @ LA ! !Har @ Que!\n!NYR @ Was! !NYI @ Was! !Was @ Phi! !LA @ SJ !\n!Van @ Ott! !Phi @ Win! !Tor @ Win! !StL @ Min!\n! ! !StL @ TB ! ! ! !NJ @ Was!\n! ! ! ! ! ! !Ott @ NYI!\n! ! ! ! ! ! !NYR @ Pit!\n! ! ! ! ! ! !Phi @ Tor!\n+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+\n!11 !12 !13 !14 !15 !16 !17 !\n!Ott @ Bos!Was @ Mon!Mon @ Buf!Bos @ Ott!Phi @ Buf! ! !\n!Que @ Buf!NYR @ Phi!Cal @ Edm!NYI @ Har!SJ @ Cal! ! !\n!Cal @ Van! !Chi @ Min!Pit @ NJ !Tor @ Chi! ! !\n!TB @ Chi! !LA @ Van!Was @ NYR!Min @ Det! ! !\n!Win @ Edm! !Ott @ Que! !Edm @ Win! ! !\n!Tor @ Har! !StL @ Tor! !Har @ NYI! ! !\n!Min @ StL! !TB @ Win! !Van @ LA ! ! !\n!NYI @ NJ ! ! ! !NJ @ Pit! ! !\n! ! ! ! !TB @ StL! ! !\n+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+\n\n The season will begin on 10/6 and end on 4/15. Playoffs will begin on \n4/18 and end on or before 6/14. 24 NHL regular season games will be played \nin non-NHL cities during 92-93 season. Cities: Milwaukee (2), Sacramento \n(2), Cleveland (2), Indianapolis, Phoenix, Miami, Oklahoma City, Dallas, \nAtlanta, Cincinnati, Providence, Peoria, Hamilton (4), Saskatoon (4), \nHalifax.\n\n Here is a chart showing the number of games between the teams (84 games \neach):\n\n N N N P P W B B H M O Q C D M S T T C E L S V W\n J Y Y h i a o u a o t u h e i t B o a d A J a i\n I R i t s s f r n t e i t n L r l m n n\n = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =\n NJ : - 7 7 7 9 7 4 4 4 3 4 4 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2\n NYI: 7 - 7 9 7 7 4 3 4 4 3 3 2 2 2 3 2 2 2 3 2 2 2 2\n NYR: 7 7 - 7 7 9 3 4 3 4 3 4 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 2 2 3 2 2\n Phi: 7 9 7 - 7 7 4 3 3 4 3 4 2 3 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 2 2 2\n Pit: 9 7 7 7 - 7 5 4 3 3 4 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 2 2\n Was: 7 7 9 7 7 - 3 4 4 3 4 3 3 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2\n\n Bos: 4 4 3 4 5 3 - 7 7 9 7 7 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2\n Buf: 4 3 4 3 4 4 7 - 9 7 7 7 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 2\n Har: 4 4 3 3 3 4 7 9 - 7 7 7 2 2 2 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3\n Mon: 3 4 4 4 3 3 9 7 7 - 7 7 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 2 2\n Ott: 4 3 3 3 4 4 7 7 7 7 - 9 2 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 2 2 2 3\n Que: 4 3 4 4 3 3 7 7 7 7 9 - 2 2 2 2 3 3 2 2 2 2 2 2\n\n Chi: 2 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 - 9 7 7 7 7 3 4 5 3 4 3\n Det: 2 2 2 3 2 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 9 - 7 7 7 7 4 3 4 4 3 3\n Min: 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 7 7 - 9 7 7 4 4 3 3 5 4\n StL: 2 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 2 7 7 9 - 7 7 4 3 3 3 4 4\n TB : 2 2 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 7 7 7 7 - 9 3 4 3 4 3 4\n Tor: 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 7 7 7 7 9 - 4 3 4 4 3 3\n\n Cal: 2 2 2 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 4 4 4 3 4 - 7 7 9 7 7\n Edm: 2 3 2 2 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 4 3 4 3 4 3 7 - 7 7 7 9\n LA : 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 5 4 3 3 3 4 7 7 - 7 9 7\n SJ : 2 2 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 3 4 3 3 4 4 9 7 7 - 7 7\n Van: 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 2 2 4 3 5 4 3 3 7 7 9 7 - 7\n Win: 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 2 3 2 3 3 4 4 4 3 7 9 7 7 7 -\n\n Valerie Hammerl has posted this year's version \nof nhl.c, a schedule program for NHL games. For example, users can find \nout the games played on a certain date or find out the next ten games \nplayed by team x. A copy can be obtained by e-mailing \n\n\n Following is the neutral site schedule:\n\n Tue 10/13: Calgary vs. Minnesota @ Saskatoon\n Tue 10/20: Ottawa vs. Toronto @ Hamilton\n Tue 11/03: Chicago vs. Washington @ Indianapolis\n Tue 11/17: Toronto vs. Quebec @ Hamilton\n Wed 11/18: Buffalo vs. New Jersey @ Hamilton\n Tue 12/01: Los Angeles vs. Chicago @ Milwaukee\n Tue 12/08: Montreal vs. Los Angeles @ Phoenix\n Wed 12/09: Tampa Bay vs. New York Rangers @ Miami\n Sun 12/13: Edmonton vs. New York Islanders @ Oklahoma City\n Tue 12/15: New York Islanders vs. St. Louis @ Dallas\n Mon 01/04: San Jose vs. Montreal @ Sacramento\n Mon 01/18: Hartford vs. Winnipeg @ Saskatoon\n Mon 02/08: Boston vs. Pittsburgh @ Atlanta\n Mon 02/08: St. Louis vs. Hartford @ Peoria\n Tue 02/16: Philadelphia vs. Calgary @ Cincinnati\n Sat 02/20: Quebec vs. Tampa Bay @ Halifax\n Mon 02/22: New York Rangers vs. San Jose @ Sacramento\n Mon 02/22: Detroit vs. Philadelphia @ Cleveland\n Tue 02/23: Winnipeg vs. Ottawa @ Saskatoon\n Mon 03/01: Vancouver vs. Buffalo @ Hamilton\n Thu 03/11: Minnesota vs. Vancouver @ Saskatoon\n Tue 03/16: Washington vs. Detroit @ Milwaukee\n Tue 03/16: New Jersey vs. Boston @ Providence *\n Sun 03/21: Pittsburgh vs. Edmonton @ Cleveland\n\n * Location subject to change\n\nNHL Playoff Schedule:\n\nWales Conference Division Semifinals: April 18, 20, 22, 24, 26*, 28*, 30*\nCampbell Conference Division Semifinals: April 19, 21, 23, 25, 27*, 29*, May 1*\nWales Conference Division Finals: May 2, 4, 6, 8, 10*, 12*, 14*\nCampbell Conference Division Finals: May 3, 5, 7, 9, 11*, 13*, 15*\nWales Conference Final: May 16, 18, 20, 22, 24*, 26*, 28*\nCampbell Conference Final: May 17, 19, 21, 23, 25*, 27*, 29*\nStanley Cup Final: June 1, 3, 5, 7, 9*, 11*, 14*\n\n* - if neccessary\n\n-----\n \n- News & Scores\n \n SPIKE (bryan.k.strouse) posts weekday news and \nbox scores (Sunday through Thursday). John P. Curcio \n posts weekend news and box scores. Both maintain \ne-mail lists for faster delivery.\n Net contacts post team news as they see/hear/read it.\n \n-----\n \n- Notable team news (transactions and announcements)\n \n Note that this information is culled from press releases and posts. It \nis updated each month and only information currently under discussion or \nof continuing importance or interest will be listed for more than two \npostings.\n \n Boston Bruins\n Boston legislators and the developers proposing a new Boston Garden \nfinally agreed to a deal that puts the 19,000-seat, $160 million project \nback on track to be finished in September 1995.\n Right wing Daniel Marois will be sidelined indefinitely following \nsurgery to repair a herniated disc in his back.\n**\n Sent defenseman Glen Murray to Providence of the American Hockey League.\n\n Buffalo Sabres\n1-800-333-PUCK (1-800-333-7825)\n Acquired left winger Bob Errey from Pittsburgh for defenseman Mike \nRamsey.\n**\n Veteran Buffalo Sabres broadcaster Ted Darling will be inducted into the \nclub's Hall of Fame Sunday, April 11. Darling, who joined the expansion \nSabres in 1970, was the team's play-by-play announcer on both television \nand radio until illness forced him out of the booth during last season.\n**\n Recalled forwards Viktor Gordiouk and Doug MacDonald from Rochester of \nAmerican Hockey League.\n\n Calgary Flames\n Acquired veteran right wing Greg Paslawski from Philadelphia for future \nconsiderations.\n**\n Recalled center Todd Harkins and left winger Tomas Forslund from Salt \nLake City of International Hockey League.\n\n Chicago Blackhawks\n The $175 million, privately financed United Center, scheduled to \nopen in August 1994, will be home to the NBA's Chicago Bulls and NHL's \nChicago Blackhawks. The stadium is owned by entities controlled by the two \nteams. The owners apparently still have not made a decision on whether the \nold Chicago Stadium will be razed for parking space once the new facility, \nlocated directly across the street, opens.\n Suspended defenseman Craig Muni indefinitely for failing to report \nfollowing a trade with Edmonton.\n\n Detroit Red Wings\n Acquired defenseman Steve Konroyd from Hartford for a sixth-round draft \npick.\n Annnounced the signing of right wing Joe Frederick, their 13th pick in \nthe 1989 National Hockey League entry draft.\n**\n Two contrite hockey fans have returned the stolen Michigan Sports Hall \nof Fame plaque honoring Detroit Red Wing great Gordie Howe. The bronze \nplaque was stolen more than four years ago from Cobo Hall in Detroit, site \nof the Michigan Hall of Fame.\n\n Edmonton Oilers\n Sent forward Esa Tikkanen to the New York Rangers for center Doug \nWeight.\n Traded defenseman Craig Muni to Chicago for forward Mike Hudson.\n NHL commissioner Gary Bettman said the Edmonton Oilers' lease with \nNorthlands Coliseum must be improved if the team is to survive in the \ncity. Edmonton Northlands is a non-profit agency set up by the city to \nadminister exhibition facilities including the Coliseum. Oilers owner \nPeter Pocklington calls his lease with Northlands horrendous and has \nthreatened to move the team if he doesn't get a better deal. He makes no \nmoney from parking, concessions or building advertising. The 17,313-seat \nColiseum also has few of the lucrative private boxes that produce \nsignificant revenues for other owners.\n Announced center Kevin Todd will not need surgery but will miss the \nremainder of the season with a separated shoulder.\n\n Hartford Whalers\n Sent defenseman Steve Konroyd to Detroit for a sixth-round draft pick.\n Acquired left winger Robert Kron and a third-round draft pick from \nVancouver for left winger Murray Craven and a fifth-round draft pick.\n**\n The state of Connecticut will begin negotiations to buy the Civic Center \nfrom the city in an effort to keep the financially struggling Hartford \nWhalers franchise in the city.\n\n Los Angeles Kings\n Sent center John McIntyre to the New York Rangers for defenseman Mark \nHardy and Ottawa's fifth-round 1993 draft pick.\n\n Minnesota North Stars\n1-800-800-0435 if calling from the U.S.\n1-800-800-0458 if calling from Canada\n The Dallas City Council has approved an agreement with the Minnesota \nNorth Stars that will bring the NHL club to Reunion Arena next season.\n Defenseman Mark Tinordi, captain of the North Stars, will be sidelined \nthe rest of the season, including any postseason games the North Stars \nmight play, because of a broken collarbone.\n Acquired defenseman Mark Osiecki from Winnipeg for ninth- and 10th-round \ndraft picks in 1993.\n Added defenseman Travis Richards from the University of Minnesota.\n A former employee filed a sexual harassment suit against Minnesota North \nStar owner Norman Green. Karen (Kari) Dziedzic, Green's former executive \nassistant, claims Green often instructed her to wear cosmetics, described \nher outfits as \"very hot\" and \"very sexy,\" once slapped her hand as she \nwas about to eat and humiliated her by grabbing her hand and rubbing it \nthrough a client's hair.\n The Minnesota North Stars, who will move to Dallas after this season, \nannounced that nearly 11,000 season ticket reservations have been made for \ntheir new home at Reunion Arena, which has a capacity of 16,800.\n The Met Center commission has told the Minnesota North Stars that it \nwants the club out - with its keys returned - at midnight after the last \nhome game. The club is moving to Dallas for next season. The club must \npay unpaid interest of $4,492.80 on the team's late rent payment for 1992, \nwhich was made earlier this month, and has been instructed not to take \nproperty such as the scoreboard and Zamboni ice-surfacing machine.\n**\n Derian Hatcher's game-misconduct penalty was rescinded by the NHL, \nallowing the Minnesota defenseman to play in the North Stars' last two \nregular-season games. Hatcher was given the penalty during a fight at the \nend of a loss at St. Louis on Sunday, April 11. But the league didn't \nrescind the game-misconduct penalty Shane Churla received. The Stars \nrecalled center Cal McGowan from their top minor league club in Kalamazoo, \nMich., to replace Churla.\n\n Montreal Canadiens\n Acquired defenseman Rob Ramage from Tampa Bay for minor league \ndefensemen Eric Charron and Alain Cote and future considerations.\n\n New Jersey Devils\n**\n Bernie Nicholls publicly apologized for his criticism of referee Denis \nMorel after the Devils' 5-2 loss to the Buffalo Sabres. Nicholls was \nejected by Morel for being the third man in on a fight late in the second \nperiod of that game and afterward Nicholls called Morel \"a homer\" and \"an \nembarrassment to the referee's association.\"\n\n New York Islanders\n Traded right wing Daniel Marois to Boston for a conditional draft \nchoice.\n\n New York Rangers\n Obtained forward Esa Tikkanen from Edmonton for center Doug Weight.\n Acquired left winger Mike Hartman from Tampa Bay \n Acquired center John McIntyre from Los Angeles for defenseman Mark Hardy \nand Ottawa's fifth-round 1993 draft pick.\n Defenseman Brian Leetch will undergo additional surgery on the right \nankle he broke in a non-skating fall and is not expected to play again \nthis season. Leetch suffered the broken ankle March 19 following a victory \nover San Jose. The team said he slipped on an icy patch of pavement as he \nwas getting out of a taxi cab in front of his apartment.\n**\n Announced that defenseman James Patrick will require surgery on a \nherniated disc in his back and will not play again this season.\n**\n Returned goaltender Corey Hirsch to Binghamton of the American Hockey \nLeague.\n\n Ottawa Senators\n The Ottawa Senators received the go-ahead to build the 18,500-seat \nPalladium on the proposed location in nearby Kanata, Ont. The projected \ncost is C$150 million. Construction will be postponed until the 1995-96 \nseason, one year behind schedule.\n The Ottawa Senators lost their 37th consecutive NHL road game to tie the \n1974-75 Washington Capitals for most road losses in a row.\n**\n Assigned left wing Martin St. Amour to New Haven of the American Hockey \nLeague.\n\n Philadelphia Flyers\n The opening date of Spectrum II has been pushed back to fall 1995. \nFormal groundbreaking has been postponed indefinitely.\n Traded veteran right wing Greg Paslawski to the Calgary Flames for \nfuture considerations.\n\n Pittsburgh Penguins\n Traded left winger Bob Errey to Buffalo for defenseman Mike Ramsey.\n Reacquired defenseman Peter Taglianetti from Tampa Bay Lightning for a \nthird-round 1993 draft choice.\n**\n Revolutionary Comics of San Diego agreed to destroy all available copies \nof a Mario Lemieux comic book in a settlement with the Pittsburgh Penguins \nover a trademark infringement lawsuit. The Penguins sued in February \ncharging that the \"Sport Stars Mario Lemieux\" comic infringed on the \nteam's logo and uniform, which are registered trademarks.\n\n Quebec Nordiques\n1-800-463-3333\n\n St. Louis Blues\n St. Louis Blues center Ron Sutter will miss the rest of the season as a \nresult of separating his right shoulder.\n\n San Jose Sharks\n The San Jose Sharks announced that ticket prices will increase by about \n30% for the 1993-94 season when they move from the Cow Palace into a new \n$155-million arena in San Jose.\n**\n Recalled defenseman Tom Pederson from Kansas City of the International \nHockey League.\n**\n Reached agreement in principle with left wing Alexander Cherbayev.\n\n Tampa Bay Lightning\n1-800-881-2639\n At least two investor groups are poised to build a sports arena in \ndowntown Tampa if the delay-plagued company that holds a lease from the \nTampa Bay Lightning bows out. Tampa Coliseum Inc. has a lease with the \nNational Hockey League team to develop an entertainment and sports arena \nnext to Tampa Stadium, but has been unable to raise enough money for the \nproject.\n Sent left winger Mike Hartman to the New York Rangers for center Randy \nGilhen.\n Sent defenseman Peter Taglianetti to Pittsburgh for a third-round 1993 \ndraft choice.\n Sent defenseman Rob Ramage to the Montreal Canadiens for minor league \ndefensemen Eric Charron and Alain Cote and future considerations.\n**\n Manon Rheaume's first starting appearance in goal for the Atlanta \nKnights was impressive enough for her coach to say she has a chance to be \na backup goalie for another minor league team next season. Rheaume, the \nfirst female to play professional hockey, stopped 25 shots and gave up six \ngoals against the Cincinnati Cyclones on Saturday night, April 10. After \nthe game, her coach, Gene Ubriaco, said Rheaume performed well enough to \ncompete for the No. 2 goalie spot with the Louisville IceHawks of the East \nCoast Hockey League next season. The Knights and the IceHawks are minor \nleague clubs of the Tampa Bay Lightning.\n**\n As their first season comes to a close, there are rumors swirling that \nthe Tampa Bay Lightning just might become the Atlanta Lightning. Or the \nMinnesota Lightning. But they are just rumors, according to Lightning \ngeneral manager Phil Esposito. ESPN reported on Sunday, April 11, that \nthe Lightning, who have been playing in 10,400-seat Expo Hall, are \nexploring opportunities to move to either Atlanta or Minneapolis. But \nEsposito said there was no truth to the report. \"We were disappointed \nwith ESPN's irresponsible comment,\" Esposito said. \"There is just no \nsubstance to the rumor.\" Rumors have been swirling for the past two years \nregarding a move by Tampa Bay, which is presently discussing plans to \nbuild a new arena.\n\n Toronto Maple Leafs\n**\n Defenseman Matt Martin, who helped Maine win the 1993 NCAA hockey \nchampionship, gave up his final year of eligibility and signed a contract \nwith the Toronto Maple Leafs.\n\n Vancouver Canucks\n The Vancouver Canucks have cleared the last hurdle in their effort \nto build a new stadium. Vancouver council has given the green light for \nthe 100 million dollar complex. It will seat 20 thousand people and will \nhave an adjoining office tower. It will be built between the viaducts near \nB.C. Place in Vancouver. Site preparation will begin this summer, with a \ncompletion date of Fall 1995.\n Traded left winger Robert Kron and a third-round draft pick to Hartford \nfor left winger Murray Craven and a fifth-round draft pick.\n Obtained defenseman Dan Ratushny from Winnipeg for a ninth-round draft \npick.\n**\n Signed right wing Brian Loney to a multi-year contract and assigned him \nto Hamilton of American Hockey League (AHL).\n\n Washington Capitals\n(301) 808-CAPS\n Traded goaltender Jim Hrivnak and future considerations to Winnipeg for \ngoaltender Rick Tabaracci.\n\n Winnipeg Jets\n Winnipeg Jets have been allowed economic assistance in order to \nkeep them in the Smythe division as a result of expansion.\n Sent defenseman Mark Osiecki to Minnesota for ninth- and 10th-round \ndraft picks in 1993.\n Sent goaltender Rick Tabaracci to Washington for Jim Hrivnak and future \nconsiderations.\n Sent defenseman Dan Ratushny to Vancouver for a ninth-round draft pick.\n Winnipeg's Teemu Selanne broke the NHL's rookie points record. The Jets \nrookie tied the record of 109 points, set by Peter Stastny with Quebec \n(1980-81), with a goal, his 66th of the season, and moved ahead on an \nassist in a 5-4 loss to Toronto.\n**\n The Fort Wayne Komets said they have been told by Winnipeg that the Jets \nwill keep a minor league affiliation with Moncton of the American Hockey \nLeague. There have been reports the Jets would move players from Moncton \nto Fort Wayne next season.\n\n-----\n\n- Expansion news:\n\n The National Hockey League announced that the expansion Anaheim and \nSouth Florida franchises will join the league for the 1993- 1994 season.\n\n Disney and National Hockey League officials announced Monday, \nMarch 1, that the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim, Disney's expansion team, will \ntake to the ice next fall. Michael Eisner, chairman and chief executive \nofficer of the Walt Disney Co., said the Mighty Ducks will play at the \nPond, the new Anaheim sports arena, near Disney's flagship theme park. The \narena is under construction and will be completed in June. The Pond seats \n17,350. The team still must meet the league's requirement that it sell at \nleast 10,000 season tickets for the final grant of NHL membership.\n\n Anaheim named Jack Ferreira general manager and Pierre Gauthier \nassistant general manager.\n**\n Veteran NHL scout Al Godfrey has been hired as the Midwest regional \nscout for the Anaheim Mighty Ducks.\n\n Philadelphia Flyers' senior vice president Bobby Clarke was named \nMonday, March 1, to the post of general manager for Miami's NHL expansion \nteam. Franchise owner H. Wayne Huizenga made the announcement at the Miami \nArena, three months after being awarded a franchise. Huizenga said he \nplans to have a team on the ice in time for the beginning of the NHL \nseason in October.\n\n-----\n\n- Realignment:\n\nEastern Conference\n\nAtlantic Division\n\nWashington Capitals, New Jersey Devils, New York Islanders, New York \nRangers, Philadelphia Flyers, South Florida, Tampa Bay Lightning\n\nNortheast Division\n\nBoston Bruins, Buffalo Sabres, Hartford Whalers, Montreal Canadiens, \nOttawa Senators, Pittsburgh Penguins, Quebec Nordiques\n\nWestern Conference\n\nCentral Division\n\nChicago Blackhawks, Dallas Stars, Detroit Red Wings, St. Louis Blues, \nToronto Maple Leafs, Winnipeg Jets\n\nPacific Division\n\nAnaheim Mighty Ducks, Calgary Flames, Edmonton Oilers, Los Angeles Kings, \nSan Jose Sharks, Vancouver Canucks\n\n Schedule: Eastern Conference teams will play five games against each of \nsix divisional opponents (30); four games against each of the seven teams \nin the conference's other division (28) and two games against each of the \n12 Western Conference members (24).\n\nWestern Conference teams will play six games against each of five \ndivisional opponents (30); four games against each of the six teams in the \nconference's other division (24) and two games against each of the 14 \nEastern Conference clubs (28).\n\n Playoffs: The system will be conference-based, with the No. 1 team \nmeeting the No. 8 team in the first round, No. 2 vs. No. 7, No. 3 vs. No. \n6 and No. 4 vs. No. 5. Matchups will be based on overall points with the \nfour division champions being placed in the first- or second-place seeds \nin each conference and being assured of home-ice in the first two playoff \nrounds. All series will be best of seven (2-2-1-1-1 rotation) except \nmatchups between Central and Pacific teams. Those series will rotate 2-3-\n2 to reduce travel. In those cases, the team with the most regular-season \npoints will choose whether to start the series at home or away.\n\n-----\n\n- Draft news:\n\n Under terms of the new expansion draft, which will be held in \nJune, each of the 24 existing clubs will be allowed to protect one \ngoaltender, five defensemen and nine forwards. The most recent expansion \ndrafts allowed teams to protect two goalies and did not make a distinction \nbetween forwards and defensemen.\n First-year pros only will be exempt from the draft, which is down \nfrom the two-year exemption teams had last season. San Jose, Tampa Bay and \nOttawa still will be allowed to exempt second-year pros.\n Each of the 24 teams will lose two players, with a maximum loss of \none goaltender and a maximum loss of one defenseman. The one exception is \nthat a team which loses a goaltender can then no longer lose a defenseman.\n At the end of the first phase of the draft, the two new franchises \nwill have three goaltenders, eight defensemen and 13 forwards for a total \nof 24 players. A second phase then will be conducted where San Jose, Tampa \nBay and Ottawa will select two players each from the rosters of the two \nnew teams.\n Ottawa, Tampa Bay and San Jose will be guaranteed priority \ndrafting selection in the 1993 draft as long as they have the three worst \nrecords. Anaheim and Miami will choose no lower than fourth and fifth. The \nexpansion franchises will move up in the draft should either San Jose, \nTampa Bay or Ottawa not finish in the bottom three positions.\n The two new teams will pick first and second in the 1994 Entry \nDraft, regardless of their finish in 1993-94. Should either of the two new \nteams not play next season they would have priority drafting position in \n1994.\n\n The owners announced the 1994 draft will be in Hartford and the \n1995 draft in Winnipeg. The 1994 draft was scheduled for Boston, but a \ndelay in the construction of a new arena required the draft be moved.\n\n-----\n \n- League news:\n\nDisputes:\n\n The NHL owners and players have resolved differences over salary \narbitration procedures, clearing the way for about 40 hearings. NHLPA \nexecutive director Bob Goodenow didn't disclose how the issues were \nresolved, but the prior sticking point had been the manner in which \nstatistics were used in arbitration hearings.\n\nOlympics:\n\n The NHL announced February 26, 1993, it will not make professional \nplayers available to compete in the 1994 Winter Olympics.\n\nLeague Leadership:\n\n Los Angeles Kings owner Bruce McNall succeeded Blackhawks owner \nBill Wirtz as chairman of the NHL's powerful Board of Governors. Appointed \nto join McNall on the Executive Committee were Ron Corey of the Montreal \nCanadiens, Mike Ilitch of the Detroit Red Wings, Peter Pocklington of the \nEdmonton Oilers and Ed Snider of the Philadelphia Flyers.\n\n Gary Bettman, vice president and general counsel of the National \nBasketball Association, was named commissioner of the National Hockey \nLeague, Friday, December 11, 1992.\n\nMiscellaneous:\n\n Henri Richard, Bernie Parent and Billy Smith have been named \nspecial ambassadors for the Stanley Cup Centennial, a season-long \ncelebration of the NHL championship trophy. The trio will appear at \nleague-wide function such as the All-Star Game and Stanley Cup playoffs.\n\n The National Hockey League named John N. Turner, former Prime \nMinister of Canada, to serve on Board of Directors of Hockey Hall of Fame \nand Museum and nominated Scotty Morrison, David M. Taylor, Larry Bertuzzi, \nRobert G. Bundy, Walter Bush, Murray Costello, Jim Gregory, Leslie Kaplan, \nLawrence G. Meyer and Alan Tonks to serve on Board, which takes office \nMarch 30.\n\n NHL President Gil Stein was one of four individuals elected to the \nHockey Hall of Fame Builder's category. The others were Buffalo Sabres' \nChairman of the Board and President Seymour Knox III, Vancouver Canucks' \nChairman Frank Griffiths and veteran Canadian hockey executive Fred Page. \nFormer NHL linesman John D'Amico was selected in the Hall of Fame's \nReferee-Linesman category.\n\n-----\n \n- NHL TV\n\n Games are carried on TSN and CBC in Canada, on ESPN in the U.S. Check \nyour local listings.\n\n The National Hockey League has struck a conditional five-year deal \nwith ESPN to televise professional hockey through the 1996-97 season.\n The series of agreements grants ESPN exclusive national coverage \nof the NHL starting with the 1992-93 season, and the cable network has an \noption to extend the term of that domestic agreement for four more years. \nThe deal also grants ESPN exclusive international television distribution, \nexcluding Canada, for the next five years.\n The league's new TV contract calls for ESPN to televise up to 25 \nregular-season games to its domestic audience this coming season and 37 \nplayoff games, including the entire Stanley Cup Final. The majority of \nESPN's regular-season games will be televised on Friday nights.\n\n NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman announced Wednesday, March 3, that \nABC Sports will televise five Stanley Cup playoff games starting next \nmonth. ABC will carry the playoff games on its network through an \narrangement with ESPN, the U.S. rightsholder for NHL games. ESPN will \nprovide the production of the games. ABC owns ESPN.\n April 18 - Wales Conference Game #1 Quarterfinals\n April 25 - Campbell Conference Game #4 Quarterfinals\n May 2 - Wales Conference Game #1 Semifinals\n May 9 - Campbell Conference Game #4 Semifinals\n May 16 - Wales Conference Game #1 Finals\n\n-----\n \n- Award winners, all-star teams, hall of fame inductees, and draft picks\n \n 91-92 Award Winners:\n Hart Trophy (MVP): Mark Messier (NYR)\n Vezina Trophy (best goalie): Patrick Roy (Mon)\n Norris Trophy (best defenseman): Brian Leetch (NYR)\n Calder Trophy (best rookie): Pavel Bure (Van)\n Selke Trophy (best defensive forward): Guy Carbonneau (Mon)\n Lady Byng Trophy (sportsmanship): Wayne Gretzky (LA)\n Jack Adams Award (best coach): Pat Quinn (Van)\n Bill Masterton Memorial Trophy (perseverance): Mark Fitzpatrick (NYI)\n King Clancy Trophy (contribution to community): Ray Bourque (Bos)\n Jennings Trophy (lowest team GAA): Patrick Roy (Mon)\n Art Ross Trophy (most scoring points): Mario Lemieux (Pit)\n\n Hall of Famer players Frank Boucher and Red Dutton and executives \nBruce McNall and Gil Stein Thursday were named the 1993 winners of the \nLester Patrick Award for ``outstanding service to hockey in the United \nStates''. The award is selected each year by a committee representing a \nwide cross-section of the hockey community.\n\n 91-92 1st All-Star Team: Patrick Roy (G, Mon), Ray Bourque (D, Bos), \nBrian Leetch (D, NYR), Mark Messier (C, NYR), Brett Hull (RW, StL), Kevin \nStevens (LW, Pit)\n\n 92-93 All-Star Game Starters (as voted by fans):\nWales Conference: Mario Lemieux (C, Pittsburgh), Jaromir Jagr (W, \nPittsburgh), Kevin Stevens (W, Pittsburgh), Ray Bourque (D, Boston), Brian \nLeetch (D, Rangers), Patrick Roy, (G, Montreal).\nCampbell Conference: Steve Yzerman (C, Detroit), Brett Hull (W, St. \nLouis), Pavel Bure (W, Vancouver), Chris Chelios (D, Chicago), Paul Coffey \n(D, Los Angeles), Ed Belfour (G, Chicago)\n\n 91-92 All-rookie team: Gilbert Dionne (LW, Mon), Tony Amonte (RW, NYR), \nKevin Todd (C, NJ), Vladimir Konstantinov (D, Det), Nicklas Lidstrom (D, \nDet), Dominik Hasek (G, Chi).\n\n 1992 Hall of Fame Inductees: Marcel Dionne, Bob Gainey, Lanny McDonald, \nand Woody Dumart.\n\n First round of the 1992 entry draft:\n # Player (pos, team)\n 1 Roman Hamrlik (D, TB)\n 2 Alexei Yashin (C, Ott)\n 3 Mike Rathje (D, SJ)\n 4 Todd Warriner (LW, Que)\n 5 Darius Kasparaitis (D, NYI)\n 6 Cory Stillman (C, Cal)\n 7 Ryan Sittler (LW, Phi)\n 8 Brandon Convery (C, Tor)\n 9 Robert Petrovicky (C, Har)\n 10 Andrei Nazarov (LW, SJ)\n 11 David Cooper (D, Buf)\n 12 Sergei Krivokrasov (LW, Chi)\n 13 Joe Hulbig (LW, Edm)\n 14 Sergei Gonchar (D, Was)\n 15 Jason Bowen (LW, Phi)\n 16 Dmitri Kvartalnov (LW, Bos)\n 17 Sergei Bautin (D, Win)\n 18 Jason Smith (D, NJ)\n 19 Martin Straka (C, Pit)\n 20 David Wilkie (D, Mon)\n 21 Libor Polasek (C, Van)\n 22 Curtis Bowen (LW, Det)\n 23 Grant Marshall (RW, Tor)\n 24 Peter Ferraro (C, NYR)\n\n-----\n\n- New NHL Rules\n\n Game ejection for instigating a fight.\n Helmets are optional.\n Grabbing an opponent's stick as a defensive move is a penalty.\n Diving to draw a penalty is a penalty.\n Coincidental minors when both teams are full-strength result in 4 vs. 4 \nplay.\n High sticking is from the waist up.\n\n - New CBA - ratified by NHLPA on 4/11/92\n \n Term: September 16, 1991 to September 15, 1993.\n \n Licensing and endorsements: Players own exclusive rights to their \nindividual personality, including their likenesses.\n \n Salary arbitration: New rules negotiated; 8 salary arbitrators to be \njointly agreed upon.\n \n Free agency: Compensation scale reduced for players age 30 and under. \nGroup III free agent age reduced to 30 from 31. A player who has completed \n10 or more professional seasons (minor or NHL) and who in last year of \ncontract didn't earn more than the average NHL salary, can elect once in \nhis career to become an unrestricted free agent at the end of his \ncontract.\n \n Salary and awards: Players' playoff fund increased to $7.5M in 1991-92 & \n$9M in 92-93. New minimum salary of $100,000.\n \n Insurance: $200,000 disability coverage. Dental & broad-based medical \nimprovements. 100% increase in life insurance for players; coverage for \nwives.\n \n Pension: Improved pension contributions of $8000 to $12500 per player per \nyear, depending on the player's number of NHL games. Agreement on language \nto guarantee continuation of Security Plan negotiated in 1986.\n \n Regular season: Increased from 80 to 84 games in 92-93. For 2 games \nplayed at neutral sites, all arrangements and revenues to be shared.\n \n Rosters: Kept at 18 skaters and 2 goaltenders for 92-93.\n \n Entry draft: Reduced to 11 rounds from 12.\n \n Supplemental draft: One selection for each non-playoff team.\n \n Joint study group: Examine financial state of NHL & issue report to \nassist in preparing for 1993 negotiations\n\n-----\n \n NHL free agency categories (effective until 9/15/93)\n\n Group I:\n - players aged 24 and under\n - player's choice of player equalization or draft pick compensation\n - for compensation, old club has right to match offer from new club\n - for equalization, old club has no right to match offer\n - equalization, which can consist of players, draft picks, and/or cash,\n must be agreed upon between two clubs or submitted to arbitration\n\n Group II:\n - players aged 25 to 29\n - player's choice of player equalization or draft pick compensation\n - for equalization, old club has right to match offer only if it is\n at least $351,000\n - for compensation, schedule is:\n one first round pick if player signs for $350,000-$500,000/year\n two first round picks if player signs for $500,000-$1 million/year\n extra first round pick for each additional $1M over $1M/year\n\n Group III:\n - players aged 30 and over\n - old club gets no compensation, but has right to match offer\n - to receive right to match, old club must make qualifying offer of 15%\n over player's salary in prior season\n\n Group IV:\n - players considered defected free agents\n\n Group V:\n - player with 10 years of experience whose salary is below NHL average\n can choose to be a free agent without compensation once in his career.\n \n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\n \n2. NHL Minor Leagues\n\n The NHL minor leagues are the International Hockey League, the American \nHockey League and the East Coast Hockey League. Information on the \nCentral Hockey League and the American Hockey Association can be found in \nsection 4.\n\n-----\n \n IHL\n \n contacts:\n IHL: Rob Springall \n Atlanta Knights: Scott Clarkson \n Cincinnati Cyclones: Joseph Combs \n Cleveland Lumberjacks: Rob Gasser \n Ft. Wayne Komets: Rob Gasser \n**\n Milwaukee Admirals: Jason Hanson \n Salt Lake Golden Eagles: Roland Behunin \n\n The International Hockey League has granted a franchise to a Las Vegas \ngroup headed by Henry Stickney for the 1993-1994 season.\n\n**\n The International Hockey League named Bob Chase. voice of the Fort \nWayne Komets, as the league's broadcaster of the year. The IHL also said \nthe annual award, effective next year, will be named in Chase's honor.\n Also honored by the IHL were Jim Loria of the Kansas City Blades \nas marketing director of the year, Shelly Gartner of the Phoenix \nRoadrunners as merchandise manager of the year and Steve Doherty of the \nKalamazoo Wings as public relations director of the year.\n\n**\n The Atlanta Knights of the International Hockey League announced \nThursday, April 8, that Manon Rheaume will be the starting goaltender in a \nhome game Saturday night, April 10, against the Cincinnati Cyclones. \nRheaume will become the first female to start in a regular season \nprofessional hockey game.\n\n**\nFort Wayne -- Announced winger Scott Gruhl will retire at the end of the \nInternational Hockey League season. Gruhl will join the Muskegon Fury of \nthe Colonial League.\n**\n The Fort Wayne Komets said they have been told by Winnipeg that the Jets \nwill keep a minor league affiliation with Moncton of the American Hockey \nLeague. There have been reports the Jets would move players from Moncton \nto Fort Wayne next season.\n\n**\n The San Diego Gulls of the International Hockey League set a record with \ntheir 61st victory, 5-1, over the Salt Lake Golden Eagles. The Gulls (61-\n11-8) became the first team in professional hockey to win that many games \nin a season. The 1976-77 Montreal Canadiens won 60 games.\n\n IHL's 1992 Turner Cup: The Kansas City Blades defeated Muskegon \nLumberjacks 4 games to 0.\n\n-----\n \n AHL\n\n contacts:\n AHL: Rob Springall \n Bri Farenell \n Mark Anania \n\nSee Section 5 for newsletter information.\n\n Atlantic Division: Cape Breton, Fredericton, Halifax, Moncton, St. John's\n Northern Division: Adirondack, Capital District, Providence, New Haven, \nSpringfield\n Southern Division: Baltimore, Binghamton, Hershey, Rochester, Utica, \nHamilton\n\n The New Haven Senators have been sold by Peter Shipman to the \nOttawa Senators NHL organization. They are the only Canadian NHL team with \nan American AHL affiliate, and have made it clear they intend to move the \nteam to somewhere in the Canadian Atlantic Provinces. This sale and move \nhas yet to be approved by the AHL head office, but is expected to pass \neasily at the general meeting in May.\n The Baltimore Skipjacks, the Washington Capitals' American Hockey League \naffliate, will skate next season as the Portland Pirates.\n The Calgary Flames will base their farm team in the AHL in St. John, New \nBrunswick next season. The team will be called the St. John Blue Flames.\n**\n The Fort Wayne Komets of the IHL said they have been told by Winnipeg of \nthe NHL that the Jets will keep a minor league affiliation with Moncton of \nthe American Hockey League. There have been reports the Jets would move \nplayers from Moncton to Fort Wayne next season.\n\n AHL's 1992 Calder Cup: The Adirondack Red Wings beat the St. John's \nMaple Leafs 4 games to 3. The home-ice curse held true as all games in the \nfinal were won by the visiting team. \n John Anderson (New Haven) is 1992 winner of Les Cunningham Plaque as AHL \nMVP.\n \n-----\n \n ECHL\n\ncontacts:\n ECHL, Toledo Storm: Rob Gasser \n\n The Toledo Storm hockey team is asking SeaGate Convention Center \nto consider becoming its host site beginning with the 1994-95 season. The \nStorm, which has played its last two seasons in the Toledo Sports Arena, \nsaid it asked for 55 dates in the downtown facility. The Storm also has \nbeen talking with backers of a proposed ice complex in suburban Sylvania \nto become a primary tenant.\n\n ECHL's 1992 Riley Cup: Hampton Roads beat Louisville 4 games to 0.\n\nSee Section 5 for newsletter information.\n\n-----\n \n Minor League Affiliates for NHL teams:\n \n Bos: Providence Bruins (AHL), Johnstown Chiefs (ECHL)\n Buf: Rochester Americans (AHL), Erie Panthers (ECHL)\n Cal: Salt Lake Golden Eagles (IHL), Roanoke Valley Rebels (ECHL)\n Chi: Indianapolis Ice (IHL), Columbus Chill (ECHL), St. Thomas (Col. HL)\n Det: Adirondack Red Wings (AHL), Toledo Storm (ECHL)\n Edm: Cape Breton Oilers (AHL), Winston-Salem Thunderbirds (ECHL)\n Har: Springfield Indians (AHL), Louisville Icehawks (ECHL)\n LA : Phoenix Roadrunners (IHL), Raleigh Icecaps (ECHL)\n Min: Kalamazoo Wings (IHL), Dayton Bombers (ECHL)\n Mon: Fredericton Canadiens (AHL), Winston-Salem Thunderbirds (ECHL), \nFlint (Col. HL)\n NJ : Utica Devils (AHL), Birmingham Bulls (ECHL)\n NYI: Capital District Islanders (AHL), Richmond Renegades (ECHL)\n NYR: Binghamton Rangers (AHL)\n Ott: New Haven Senators (AHL), Thunder Bay (Col. HL)\n Phi: Hershey Bears (AHL)\n Pit: Cleveland Lumberjacks (IHL), Knoxville Cherokees (ECHL)\n Que: Halifax Citadels (AHL), Greensboro Monarchs (ECHL)\n SJ : Kansas City Blades (IHL), Nashville Knights (ECHL)\n StL: Peoria Rivermen (IHL), Dayton Bombers (ECHL), Flint (Col. HL)\n TB : Atlanta Knights (IHL)\n Tor: St. John's Maple Leafs (AHL), Raleigh Icecaps (ECHL), Brantford \n(Col. HL)\n Van: Columbus Chill (ECHL), Hamilton Canucks (AHL)\n Was: Baltimore Skipjacks (AHL), Hampton Roads Admirals (ECHL)\n Win: Moncton Hawks (AHL), Thunder Bay (Col. HL)\n \n Ind: Cincinnati Cyclones (IHL)\n Fort Wayne Komets (IHL)\n Michigan Falcons (Colonial HL)\n Milwaukee Admirals (IHL)\n San Diego Gulls (IHL)\n St. Thomas (Colonial HL)\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\n \n3. College Hockey\n \ncontacts:\n NCAA: Mike Machnik \n Wisconsin Badgers: Jeff Horvath \n CCHA, Bowling Green State: Keith Instone \n ECAC, Clarkson: Bri Farenell \n\n- e-mail lists:\n Wayne Smith maintains 2 lists, one for discussions \n(HOCKEY-L) and one for news (HOCKEY-D):\n \n send e-mail to with body:\n SUBSCRIBE HOCKEY-L \n or\n SUBSCRIBE HOCKEY-D \n (a read-only list containing news from HOCKEY-L)\n\nUp-to-date Division I standings and scores can be obtained through the \narchives of the College Hockey Mailing List. Send a message to the server \nat listserv@maine.maine.edu with the body containing ONLY the commands \n(either or both)\n\n - ftp site: andy.bgsu.edu\n The directory \"pub/Hockey\" contains CCHA press releases, scores, \nstandings, and rosters. The sub-directory \"Archives\" has archives of the \nDivision I college hockey mailing list since 1989. Also, archives from the \nDivision III list since May 1992 are available.\n\n NCAA hockey championship:\nSemi-finals: Maine 4, Michigan 3 (OT)\n Lake Superior State 6, Boston University 1\nFinals: Maine 5, Lake Superior State 4\n\n Freshman Paul Kariya who was named winner of the 1992-93 Hobey Baker \nAward as college hockey's top player.\n\n**\n The NCAA Division I Hockey Championships will be held at the St. Paul \nCivic Center in St. Paul, Minnesota, on March 31 and April 2, 1994.\n For priority seating call the University of Minnesota Ticket Office at \n(612) 624-8080, between 8:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m., Monday through Friday or \nsend a postcard to:\n\nUniversity of Minnesota Ticket Office\n1994 NCAA Hockey Championships\n516 15th Avenue SE\nMinneapolis MN 55455\n\n- NCAA Division I Teams\n \n CCHA (Central Collegiate Hockey Association):\nBowling Green, Ferris State, Illinois-Chicago, Lake Superior, Miami, \nMichigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Western Michigan, Notre Dame, Kent \nState, Alaska-Fairbanks (affiliate member )\n \n CCHA Playoff structure: The top 6 will host the bottom 6 (1 vs \n12, 2 vs 11, etc) in a two-of-three weekend series The six winners will \nadvance to Joe Louis Arena for single elimination the rest of the way. The \ntop 2 remaining seeds get a bye while 3 plays 6 and 4 plays 5 on the first \nnight. On the second night, the 4 remaining teams battle it out, leaving \nonly two to play for the championship, on the third night. Alaska-\nFairbanks, as an affiliate member, will be seeded from #7 to #12 by the \nleague office.\n\n ECAC (Eastern College Athletic Conference) (men's):\nBrown, Clarkson, Colgate, Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard, Princeton, RPI, St. \nLawrence, Union, Vermont, Yale\n\n ECAC (Eastern College Athletic Conference) (women's):\nBrown, Colby, Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard, New Hampshire, Northeastern, \nPrinceton, Providence, Rochester Institute of Technology, St. Lawrence, \nYale\n\n The Eastern Collegiate Athletic Conference unveiled the nation's \nfirst intercollegiate women's ice hockey league and announced the 12 teams \nwill begin play in the 1993-94 season. The top eight finishers in the ECAC \nWomen's Ice Hockey League will qualify for a post-season tournament. The \nleague replaces an informal 15-team conference of nine Division I and six \nDivision III schools, which held their own respective division tournaments \nat the end of the regular season. The ECAC said it would discontinue its \nDivision III women's tournament after the 1992-93 season.\n\n Hockey East:\nBoston College, Boston University, UMass-Lowell, Maine, Merrimack, New \nHampshire, Northeastern, Providence\n \n WCHA (Western Collegiate Hockey Association):\nColorado College, Denver, Michigan Tech, Minnesota, Minnesota-Duluth, \nNorth Dakota, Northern Michigan, St Cloud, Wisconsin\n \nAlaska-Anchorage has joined the WCHA as a full-fledged member for 93-94\n \n Independents:\nAir Force, Alabama-Huntsville, Alaska-Anchorage, Alaska-Fairbanks, Army\n\n-----\n\n - Canadian Intercollegiate Athletic Union\n\n CIAU Championships:\n Finalists:\n Team: Division:\n University of Alberta Golden Bears West\n University of Guelph Gryphons Ontario West\n University of Toronto Varsity Blues Ontario East\n University of Acadia Axemen East\n\n Semi-finals: Acadia 9, Alberta 4\n Toronto 3, Guelph 2\n Finals: Acadia 12, Toronto 1\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\n \n4. Other Hockey Leagues\n \n - 1992 World Championships in Czechoslovakia\n \n Sweden defeated Finland 5-2 (gold medal match)\n Czechoslovakia defeated Switzerland 5-2 (bronze medal match)\n \n Final Standings (round robin):\n \n GROUP A W T L GF GA Pts GROUP B W T L GF GA PTS\n Finland 5 0 0 32 8 10 Russia 4 1 0 23 10 9\n Germany 4 0 1 30 14 8 Czech 4 0 1 18 7 8\n USA 2 1 2 14 15 5 Switz 2 2 1 12 11 6\n Sweden 1 2 2 14 12 4 Canada 2 1 2 15 18 5\n Italy 1 1 3 10 18 3 Norway 1 0 4 8 16 2\n Poland 0 0 5 8 41 0 France 0 0 5 8 22 0\n \n Austria will replace Poland in Pool A of 1993 WC in Germany\n \n The 1993 World Championships (Pool A) is scheduled to run from Apr 18 to \nMay 2 in Munich, Germany.\n\n-----\n**\n - 1993 World Championships (Pool B) in Eindhoven, the Netherlands\n\n #g w l t pts gf ga\n1. Great Britain 7 7 0 0 14 50 13\n2. Poland 7 6 1 0 12 71 12\n3. Netherlands 7 5 2 0 10 47 20\n4. Denmark 7 4 3 0 8 38 24\n5. Japan 7 3 4 0 6 34 31\n6. Romania 7 2 5 0 4 20 44\n7. China 7 1 6 0 2 12 79\n8. Bulgaria 7 0 7 0 0 9 58\n\nGreat Britain advances to Pool A. Bulgaria is relegated to Pool C.\n\n-----\n \n - 1992 Olympic Games\n**\n- e-mail lists:\n Charlie Slavin maintains OlymPuck - The Olympic \nHockey Discussion List:\n \n send e-mail to with body:\nSUBSCRIBE OlymPuck your_name favorite country(ies)\n\n CIS won the gold, Canada the silver, and Czechoslovakia the bronze \n(defeated USA).\n \n Yale hockey coach Tim Taylor was named coach for the '94 US Olympic Team.\n \n Dany Dube from the UQTR Patriotes (CIAU) and Tom Renney from the Kamloops \nBlazers (WHL) are co-coaches of Canada's national program.\n\n The 1998 Nagano Winter Olympic Organizing Committee said it has \napproved the addition of women's ice hockey and curling to the list of \nofficial medal events at the Games. The decision, which came at the \norganizing committee meeting here, followed an accord reached in Nagano \nbetween the committee and the IOC Coordination Committee. The decision \nwill be formally ratified by an Executive Board meeting of the \nInternational Olympic Committee (IOC) and its Session. As a result, the \nnumber of total events at Nagano will increase to 64 in seven sports.\n\n-----\n \n- 1991 Canada Cup\n \n Team Canada defeated Team USA 2 games to 0.\n \n-----\n\n - 1992 Izvestia hockey tournament\n\n Final: Russia II - Czechoslovakia 2-1\n Game for 3rd and 4th place: Russia I - Sweden 4-1\n Game for 5th and 6th place: Finland - Switzerland 3-1\n Game for 7th and 8th place: Canada - Germany 6-1\n\n Final Standings for the 25th Izvestia Cup:\n 1. Russia II (the Russian Olympic team)\n 2. Czechoslovakia\n 3. Russia I\n 4. Sweden\n 5. Finland\n 6. Switzerland\n 7. Canada\n 8. Germany\n\n-----\n\n- 1992 Germany Cup\n\n Russia defeated Team Canada 6-3 to win the $170,000 four-team \nGermany Cup for the third time. The Russian team, coached for the first \ntime by the legendary Boris Michailov, assured itself of the $67,000 \nwinner's check after a 3-1 win over Czechoslovakia. The former Soviet \nUnion and Commonwealth of Independent States captured the tournament in \n1988 and 1991 under Viktor Tikhonov.\n\n-----\n\n- 1992 Spengler Cup\n\n Canada, with Fabian Joseph scoring his second goal of the game at \n3:47 of overtime, beat Farjestad (Sweden) 6-5 in the final of the Spengler \nCup at Davos, Switzerland. The Canadians overcame a two-goal deficit in \nthe final two minutes of regulation and went on to earn their second \novertime victory within 15 hours.\n\n Final:\n\n Team Canada - Farjestad (Sweden) 6-5 (1-1,2-2,2-2,1-0) OT\n\n-----\n\n- 1992 European cup finals\n\nDuesseldorf, December 30, 1992\n\nBronze: Jokerit Helsinki - Lions Milano 4-2.\n\nGold: Malmoe IF - Dynamo Moscow 4-3 (Shootout)\n\n This was the third successive European championship for a Swedish team: \nin 1990 and 1991 the champion was Djurgaarden (Stockholm).\n\n-----\n\n- 1993 Sweden Hockey Games\n**\n Final Standings:\n\n GP W T L GF-GA P\n 1. Sweden 3 2 0 1 13- 8 +5 4\n 2. Czech Republic 3 2 0 1 16-11 +5 4\n 3. Russia 3 1 1 1 9-11 -2 3\n 4. Canada 3 0 1 2 13-21 -8 1\n\n Sweden wins due to head-to-head result vs the Czech republic.\n\n-----\n \n- Junior Leagues\n \n contact:\n WHL: Randy Coulman \n Mitch McGowan \n\n The site for the 75th Memorial Cup Tournament has yet to be \nchosen. It will be staged in Ontario but the exact location won't be \ndetermined until next spring.\n In March of '93, the two regular-season division champions from \nthe Ontario Hockey League will meet in a best-of-seven series at the start \nof the playoff season. The winner of the series earns the right to host \nthe Memorial Cup, traditionally held in May.\n The eventual OHL champion will also participate in the tourney. \nBut if the league champs also happen to be the club hosting the Memorial \nCup, then the league finalists will advance as well.\"\n\n Charles Poulin (Mon draft) of St-Hyacinthe (QMJHL) is '92 Canadian Hockey \nLeague Player of the Year.\n \n 1992 Memorial Cup at Seattle\n \n Round-robin standings W L GF GA\n Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds (OHL) 3 0 14 8\n Kamloops Blazers (WHL) 2 1 10 7\n Seattle Thunderbirds (WHL host) 1 2 9 10\n Verdun College Francais (QMJHL) 0 3 5 13 \n \n Semifinal Kamloops 8 Seattle 3\n Final Kamloops 5 Sault Ste. Marie 4\n \n-----\n\n - Central Hockey League\n \n contact:\n Marc Foster \n \n Ted Wollnik \n\nSee Section 5 for newsletter information.\n\n CHL:\nFort Worth Fire, Wichita Thunder, Dallas Freeze, Tulsa Oilers, Memphis \nRiver Kings, Oklahoma City Blazers\n\n Six non-affiliated teams play a 60 game schedule extending from early \nNovember to mid March. Each team is owned by the league, with local \ninterests controlling day to day operations. Each team has a $100,000 \nsalary cap for 17 total players (16 dress up). Unlike the ECHL, players \nare not limited to three years in the league.\n A Western Division may be added to the Central Hockey League for the 93-\n94 season if the plans of CHL president Ray Miron materialize. Miron \nconfirmed that El Paso, Amarillo, Tuscon, and Albuquerque are cities under \nconsideration for the Western Division, which would play some interlocking \ngames with the Eastern Division. Meanwhile, San Antonio and Houston are \nclose to being confirmed as the league's newest members.\n\n-----\n\n - Major League Hockey\n \n A new hockey league with franchises throughout the United States \nand Canada will begin play in the fallof 1993, officials announced \nWednesday, February 10.\n Major League Hockey was founded by Roy Boe, former president of \nthe New York Islanders of the National Hockey League and the New York/New \nJersey Nets of the American and National Basketball associations.\n According to Boe, the league will debut with six to eight teams \nplaying a schedule of approximately 80 games. Franchise applications have \nbeen received from groups in Chicago, Cleveland, Dallas, Denver, Detroit, \nHouston, Minneapolis-St. Paul, Phoenix, San Francisco, Saskatoon, Toronto \nand Worcester, Mass., Boe said.\n Although the league will not raid existing leagues to stock its \nrosters, Boe said it will seek the ``world's finest hockey players.''\n Boe said league play will have an international flair and \ndiscussed implementing some rules which are reminiscent of those of the \nIIHF.\n ``We're removing the red line, moving the goal nets forward and \neliminating all tie games,'' said Boe.\n The MLH office will operate out of Stamford, Conn.\n\n-----\n \n- British Premier Division:\n \n contacts:\n Neil A. McGlynn: (from NA)\n (from Europe)\n Steve Salvini: \n \n Contact Steve for the GB USENET draft.\n\n e-mail list: send e-mail to to \nsubscribe.\n\n Durham Wasps defeated Nottingham Panthers 7-6 in '92 British championship \ngame.\n \n-----\n \n- Finnish Elite League (SM-LIIGA):\n\n contacts:\n Juha Koivisto & Kimmo Kauranen \n Vesa J Pyyluoma \n\nFinal standings 91-92:\n 1) Jokerit, Helsinki 2) JyP HT, Jyvaskyla 3) HIFK, Helsinki\n 4) Assat, Pori 5) TPS, Turku 6) Lukko, Rauma\n 7) KalPa, Kuopio 8) HPK, Hameenlinna 9) Ilves, Tampere\n 10) Reipas, Lahti 11) Tappara, Tampere 12) JoKP, Joensuu\n JoKP dropped and Kiekko-Espoo from Espoo qualified to the SM-LIIGA\n\nIndividual stats leaders 91-92:\n Points: Makela Mikko, TPS 25+45=70 (+ playoffs: 2+3=5 )\n Scoring: Selanne Teemu, Jokerit 39+23=62 (+ playoffs: 10+7=17)\n\nAll Stars 91-92:\n Briza Petr (Lukko), Virta Hannu (TPS), Laurila Harri (JyP HT),\n Makela Mikko (TPS), Janecky Otakar (Jokerit), Selanne Teemu (Jokerit)\n\n-----\n \n- German Hockey League:\n \n contact:\n Andreas Stockmeier or \n \n Duesseldorfer Eishockey-Gemeinschaft defeated SB Rosenheim in '92 German \nfinal\n\n-----\n\n - Swedish Elite League (Elitserien):\n\n contact:\n Staffan Axelsson \n\n**\n 1992-93 regular season final standings:\n 1. Vasteras 2. Brynas 3. Malmo 4. Farjestad\n 5. MoDo 6. Lulea 7. Leksand 8. Djurgarden\n 9. HV 71 10. Rogle 11. Frolunda 12. AIK\n\n Brynas defeated Lulea 3 games to 2 for the 1993 Swedish hockey \nchampionship.\n\n-----\n \n - Swiss First Division:\n\n Kloten became the 1992-93 champions of the Swiss League Nationale A\nby beating Fribourg-Gotteron 4-2 to sweep the final series 3-0.\n\n-----\n \n - 1992 Women's World Championships at Finland\n 1 Canada, 2 USA, 3 Finland, 4 Sweden, 5 China, 6 Norway, 7 Denmark, \n 8 Switzerland\n \n-----\n\n 1993 World Junior Hockey Championships at Sweden\n\n Final Standings:\n\n GP W T L GF-GA +/- P\n 1. Canada 7 6 0 1 37-17 +20 12\n 2. Sweden 7 6 0 1 53-15 +38 12\n 3. Czechoslovakia 7 4 1 2 38-27 +11 9\n 4. USA 7 4 0 3 32-23 + 9 8\n 5. Finland 7 3 1 3 31-20 +11 7\n 6. Russia 7 2 2 3 26-20 + 6 6\n 7. Germany 7 1 0 6 16-37 -21 2\n 8. Japan 7 0 0 7 9-83 -74 0\n\n Canada wins gold due to head-to-head result vs Sweden.\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\n \n5. Info available via e-mail\n\n When requesting items via e-mail please include your preferred address \nin the body of the message. Sometimes the reply-to address is not a good \nthing to go by.\n\n - ftp site: wuarchive.wustl.edu (128.252.135.4)\n In directory /doc/misc/sports/nhl there are some new hockey files.\n Get the README file for information and contents.\n\n---\n\n - E-mail lists:\n \n List Topic (Freq.) To Subscribe\n Boston Bruins bruins-request@cs.Usask.CA\n List Address bruins@cs.Usask.CA\n Buffalo Sabres sabres-request@potter.csh.rit.edu\n List Address sabres@potter.csh.rit.edu\n Los Angeles Kings kings-request@cs.stanford.edu\n List Address kings@cs.stanford.edu\n**\n Montreal Canadiens habs-request@janus.sdsu.edu\n List Address habs@janus.sdsu.edu\n Philadelphia Flyers seth@hos1cad.att.com\n Pittsburgh Penguins gp2f+@andrew.cmu.edu\n List Address gp2f@andrew.cmu.edu\n St. Louis Blues jca2@cec1.wustl.edu\n San Jose Sharks sharks-request@medraut.apple.com\n List Address sharks@medraut.apple.com\n Tampa Bay Lightning wilson@cs.ucf.edu\n Vancouver Canucks boey@sfu.ca\n List Address vancouver-canucks@sfu.ca\n Washington Capitals david@eng.umd.edu\n List Address caps@monster.umd.edu\n NHL Boxscores (M-F) bks@cbnewsh.cb.att.com\n NHL Boxscores (S-S) jpc@philabs.philips.com\n NHL Goalie Stats (d) coulman@cs.Usask.CA\n NHL Scores (n) wilson@cs.ucf.edu\n NHL Team Stats (w) wilson@cs.ucf.edu\n AHL Newsletter ahl-news-request@hamlet.cmu.edu\n List Address ahl-news@hamlet.cmu.edu\n ECHL Newsletter echl-news-request@andrew.cmu.edu\n List Address echl-news@andrew.cmu.edu\n US College Hockey (see section 3)\n NCAA Division III Hockey hockey3-request@hooville.mitre.org\n List Address hockey3@request.mitre.org\n CHL Newsletter mfoster@geohub.gcn.uoknor.edu\n British League uk-hockey-request@uk.ac.hw.cs\n**\nOlympic Hockey (see section 4)\n\n Freq: M-F=Monday-Friday, S-S=Saturday-Sunday, d=daily, n=nightly, \nw=weekly\n \n If you have something interesting, make it available. When requesting, \nuse the keyword in the body or subject. Also, specify team, date, etc., \nwhere applicable.\n \n Available from Eric Rickin :\n Keyword Description\n AHLADDR AHL team addresses\n CANJUNIORS Canada junior teams\n NHLTV TV stations for each team\n NHLRADIO Radio stations for each team\n USJUNIORS US junior teams\n XXXXDRAFT XXXX (for XXXX=1989-1992) NHL Entry Draft\n 1991EXP 1991 NHL Expansion & Dispersal Draft\n \n Available from Rob Springall :\n Keyword Description\n AHL Up-to-date info on the AHL\n IHL Up-to-date info on the IHL\n NHL.C A C program that prints the 91-92 NHL schedule for a specified \n day\n \n Available from Stan Willis :\n Keyword Description\n ATTEND 91-92 NHL team home attendance report by quarters\n PSLOGOS NHL team logos in PostScript\n \n Available from David Anthony Wyatt :\n Keyword Description\n ALLLIST All-time List of Professional Hockey Franchises\n \n Available from Roland Behunin :\n Keyword Description\n SATINFO Satellite info for NHL teams\n \n Available from Mike Machnik :\n Keyword Description\n DIV1SCHED 92-93 NCAA Division I scores\n Mike can also provide a schedule for any of the 46 Division I teams to \npeople who ask. E-mail him for details.\n\n Available from Bill Clare :\n Keyword Description\n RETIRED List of retired numbers for NHL players\n \n Available from Staffan Axelsson :\n Keyword Description\n WCMEDALS World Championships Medalists 1920-1992\n WCSTAND World Championships All-Time Standings, Pool A 1920-1992\n WCALSTAR World Championships All-Star Teams 1961-1992\n WCROSTXX World Championships Gold Winning Teams' Rosters 1958-1992 \n (Specify XX=58-92)\n WJHC History of medals given at the World Junior Hockey \n Championships\n WJHCSTAT Team and player stats from the World Junior Hockey \n Championships.\n\n Available from Paul Brownlow :\n Keyword Description\n CHLPOY Past Canadian Hockey League players of the year\n MEMCUP Past Memorial Cup winners\n\n Available from :\n To use the statsmailer, send e-mail to \"wilson@cs.ucf.edu\" with subject \n\"statsmailer\" and a body containing the word HELP to receive a list of \nallowable commands. Things available: NHL team/league schedules/calendars, \na plethora of team statistics, scores of games, and some assorted hockey \nfiles. Seasons 1988-1992 available. New material was added on 1/19/93.\n\n Available from Mitch McGowan \n Keyword Description\n ROSTERS 1993 NHL All-Star Game rosters\n NHLLEAD 1991-92 NHL Leaders (Scoring, Goals, Assists, Power-play \n goals, Short-handed goals, Game-winning goals, Shots, Goals-\n against average, Victories, Save percentage, Shutouts)\n ZAMBONI Alan Thicke's \"Book of Zamboni\" opening from the 1991 NHL \n Awards broadcast\n\n Available from Matt Militzok \n Keyword Description\n STATS Up-to-date NHL statistics\n\n Available from Harry Peltz \n Keyword Description\n SCORES Compilation of NHL scores for the current month (in compressed \nand uuencoded format)\nDates can also be specified for specific box scores, but try not to \nrequest too many at one time (Max 5 box scores or three days).\n\n Available from Richard Stueven \n Keyword Description\n DIRECT Current NHL directory file\n\n Available from Michael Burger \n Keyword Description\n TVINFO TV/Radio stations for all teams along with network \n information.\n\nUp-to-date Division I standings and scores can be obtained through the \narchives of the College Hockey Mailing List. Send a message to the server \nat listserv@maine.maine.edu with the body containing ONLY the commands \n(either or both)\n\nGET 9293CONF STAND (for all Division I conference standings)\nGET 9293COMP SCHEDULE (for a full-season listing of Division I scores)\n\nThe schedule is about 1000 lines long and the standings file is about 50 \nlines. These files are updated more-or-less weekly around Monday. \nContact Mike Machnik (nin15b34@merrimack.edu) with any questions.\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\n \n6. USENET Hockey Pool\n \n send e-mail to .\n \n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\n \n 7. Up-coming Dates\n\n Apr 18 - May 2: The 1993 World Championships (Pool A), Munich, Germany.\n Jun 26: NHL entry draft, Quebec City, Quebec.\n Feb 12 - Feb 27, 1994: XVII Olympic Winter Games, Lillehammer, Norway.\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\n \n 8. Answers to some frequently asked questions:\n \n Q: Why are the Montreal Canadiens called the Habs?\n A: Most of the team during the 40-50's was made up of people who lived in \nand around Montreal. Hence they were called \"Les Habitants\" (natives of \nMontreal). This was then shortened to the Habs.\n \n Q: Why is the Montreal Canadiens logo a large C with an H within it?\n A: In 1914-15, the Canadiens logo consisted of C with an A within it to \nsignify Club Athletique Canadien (CAC). The next year, CAC no longer \nexisted and it was changed to what it is now to signify Club de Hockey.\n\n Q: What is the most informative hockey publication?\n A: The Hockey News is preferred by most North American hockey fans. It is \na weekly journal with up-to-date info.\nPhone: 800-268-7793 (Canada and US)\nPhone/fax: 0483 776141 (UK and rest of Europe)\n \n Q: How does a 5-minute power-play count in the penalty killing stats in \nthe NHL?\n A: If X goals are scored, then the team gets credit for X goals in X+1 \nchances.\n \n Q: How is +/- computed in the NHL?\n A: First, +/- only applies to skaters. Except for a power-play goal, when \na goal is scored, each skater on the ice for the scoring team is given a \n+, and each skater on the ice for the other team is given a -. Short-\nhanded goals do count for +/-.\n \n Q: What is the five-hole?\n A: The space between a goalie's pads. There are five major scoring zones: \n(1) upper left corner of goal, (2) upper right, (3) lower left, (4) lower \nright, and (5) five-hole.\n \n Q: What is the meaning of throwing an octopus on the ice?\n A: This tradition began in Detroit in the 1950's when two best-of-seven \nseries were required to win the Stanley Cup. Every time Detroit won a \ngame, an octopus with one less arm was thrown on the ice.\n\n Q: Who was the first woman to play in an NHL game?\n A: Manon Rheaume, a 20-year-old goaltender, became the first woman ever \nto play in an NHL game on September 23, 1992 when she started in net for \nthe expansion Tampa Bay Lightning in an exhibition against the St. Louis \nBlues. Rheaume played the first period before 8,223 at the 10,400-seat \nExpo Hall on the Florida State Fairgrounds and allowed two goals on nine \nshots. She left with the score tied 2-2, although the Lightning ultimately \nlost the game, 6-4.\n\n Q: What is the richest contract in NHL history?\n A: Mario Lemieux, the superstar center of the Pittsburgh Penguins, signed \nthe richest contract in NHL history, a seven-year deal believed to be \nworth about $42 million. Lemieux will earn between $6 million and $7 \nmillion a year, nearly twice as much as any other player in the league.\n\n Q: Who is the new commissioner of the NHL?\n A: Gary Bettman, vice president and general counsel of the National \nBasketball Association, was named commissioner of the National Hockey \nLeague, Friday, December 11, 1992. Bettman joined the NBA in 1981 as \nassistant general counsel. He became the league's chief legal officer in \nSeptember of 1984. A New York resident, Bettman graduated from Cornell \nUniversity in 1974 and from New York University School of Law in 1977.\n\n Q: How many professional hockey leagues are there in North America?\n A: Six: National, American, International, East Coast, Central and \nColonial Hockey Leagues.\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\n \n9. Miscellaneous:\n \n For field hockey discussions, go to the newsgroup rec.sport.hockey.field.\n For skating discussions, go to the newsgroup rec.skate.\n \n Some sites get another hockey group, called clari.sports.hockey. c.s.h \nconsists of the UPI feed for all UPI news articles that are related to \nhockey, including game results, summaries, scores, standings, etc. Much \nof the information in the NHL team news section comes from this newsgroup.\n \n The rec.sport.hockey Frequently Asked Questions posting is posted semi-\nmonthly, usually on the 1st and 15th of each month, during the hockey \nseason. This file was originally created by Tom Wilson, who posted it \nduring the 1991-92 season. It was taken over by Mitch McGowan for the \n1992-93 season.\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\n \n Please make corrections via e-mail, indicating \"r.s.h FAQ\" as the \nsubject line. Feel free to start a discussion on any previously mentioned \ntopic (but use an appropriate subject line).\n \nMitch McGowan ", "\nThey lowered the mound first (before the 69 season). The shrinkage of\nthe strike zone didn't start until the mid-70s.", "Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball\n\n\n\n\nHarry talks about this \"incident\" in his autobiography \"Holy Cow.\" \nUnfortunately, I can not clarify on this since (1) I read the book a couple\nof years ago and (2) I do not have my book with me. \n\nAnyway, It is a pretty interesting book if you are a Harry or Cubs fan.", ": You should be ashamed to call yourself an Ulf Samuelson fan. Anybody who plays\n: the way he does, does not belong in the NHL. There have been cheap shot artists\n: through the history of the game, but a lot of them have been talanted players.\n: Bobby Clarke, Kenny Linsemen, Pie McKenzie, Chris Chelios etc.. but nobody has been\n: out right as dirty a cheapshot coward as Ulf. Violence in hockey has got to be curbed\n: and players like (Should have been a Women) Samuelson don't belong. When players\n: like Ulf, who's main purpose is to injure the better players in the league is allowed\n: to continue, and the league won't stop it, the players should. A Christian Pro 1000\n: aluminum stick directed at his ugly head should do the trick nicely. If the Bruins get\n: a chance to meet Pittsburgh in the near future, you can bet Neely will have his day.\n: The sight of watching Ulf turtle up like the coward he is, is worth almost as much as a\n: Stanely Cup. This wimp of a player almost ruined the career of one the best right wingers\n: in the game. If you are to remove Ulf Samuelson from the lineup, the Penguins would not\n: even notice he's gone. He's an eyesore on the game of hockey.\n\n\n: Rich\n\n\nThank you for your extremely lucid and well thought out observation.\nNow when you get back on your medication, please let us know how you\nare feeling. \nThank you,", "\nHey Valentine, I don't see Boston with any world series rings on their\nfingers. Damn, Morris now has three and probably the Hall of Fame in his \nfuture. Therefore, I would have to say Toronto easily made the best \nsigning. And don't tell me Boston will win this year. They won't \neven be in the top 4 in the division, more like 6th.", "\nIt was not just those penalties. Most of all it was the penalty the referee didn't\ncall on the Czechs right before their first goal.\n\n\nDon't you think it's quite silly to call it a Nazi attitude, when some people \nthrow coins on the ice? Hey, I don't approve the behavior of these guys,\nespecially not in a WC game, but I can't see any reason for using the word 'Nazi'\nin this connection. \n \n\nSoccer hooligans are not just a German problem (remember the world cup in Italy).\nAgain: there's a big difference between throwing coins and smashing shop-windows\nor fighting with other so-called 'fans', who come to a WC just to see if the\nDutch or the English or the Germans are the best bruisers.\nWhich other sports are you talking about? I don't think soccer is 'every possible\nsport'.\n\n\nHow many Germans do you know? Do you think 200 out of 10000 is 'most of them'? \nIf you hear about some white policemen beating a black man in the US, what do you\nthink about the Americans? 'Most of them' like beating blacks?\n\n\n", "I am finding the volume of stuff on rec.sport.baseball\noverwhelming -- ca. 200 posts/day. An effect of this is\nthat a backlog builds up, and many posts get dumped from\nmy system. I could probably fix that--but don't have the\ntime to read them all in any event. My guess is that mine\nis a common problem. I have some ideas that would help:\n\n1. Each person generally post no more than one article/day.\n2. Limit the extent to which previous posts are reproduced\n in posts.\n3. Don't post mindless `woofs,' or `anti-woofs,' e.g. \"The\n Jays are best!\" or \"The Jays suck.\"\n4. Don't respond to mindless posts, e.g. \"Jack Morris is\n a better pitcher than Frank Viola because he's won a \n World Series.\" I know that you can use the `n' key to\n get by these posts, but they bump interesting posts from\n my disk.\n5. use the goddamn shift key etc it makes your posts easier\n to read ", "\n\nThese players all are pretty good players. They are the depth that the\ndynasties had to win Stanley Cups. They tend to be the very good second\nline guys- who would be first liners on most weaker clubs in the NHL.\nThey were all important to their clubs. Probably, several of these\nStanley Cup winning teams would not have won the cups they did if it\nwere not for the depth provided by these players.\n\nThey compare to Rick Tocchet and Ron Francis of the Penguins. Very good\nplayers who can lead lesser teams (Francis-Hartford, Tocchet-Philly) who\nprovide the depth to the team that is currently best in the NHL.\n\nAs a defensive forward, there have been none better than Bob Gainey. That\ndoesn't mean he was the best player (or even the best forward) the Canadians\nhad at that time, but he was excellent at what he did. Gainey could\ndominate games with his defence. He didn't need to get goals to dominate.\nHe shut down the opposition and was thus valuable. There has never been\nanyone any better at doing this. Not ever.", "For those Leaf fans who are concerned, the following players are slated for\nreturn on Thursday's Winnipeg-Toronto game :\n Peter Zezel, John Cullen\n\n Mark Osborne and Dave Ellett are questionable to return on Thursday.", "ST> as for more captain trivia, the next Edmonton\nST> catain was Lee Fogilin who was later traded to\nST> the Buffalo Sabres, after him was Wayne Gretzky\nST> who w traded to L A, then came Kevin Low who\nST> nly this year was traded to the N Y Rangers\n \nWasn't Mark Messier Captain of the oilers before Kevin Lowe?\nBut, of course, he was traded as well -- so your point of every\nOilers captain being traded is still true.", "\nThis talk about the Phillies winning the NL East is scary. VERY\nscary! Don't get me wrong, Im a Phillies fan but as late as last\nyear they looked helpless. The funny thing was they did have a lot\nof injuries in '92 spring training that basically killed their\nchances. Of course, don't forget the Dykstra wrist injury in the\nfirst or second game? \n\n", "\nAND the first team in the majors to win 10 games! Yes! It'll never last, but\nGod it's good while it's here!\n\n\nWell, there's a holiday in Massachusetts called Patriots' Day. Three things\nhappen on Patriots' Day: almost all businesses are closed, the Sox play a\nmorning game, and they run the Boston Marathon.\n\n Mike Jones | AIX High-End Development | mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com", "\nI think that they go to divisional records before goals, but I could be\nwrong, too.\n\n--\n Keith Keller\t\t\t\tLET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!\n\t\t\t\t\t\tLET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!\n\tkkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu\t\tIVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!", "\nFrom this account, it doesn't sound like you even saw the goal, Mike. Smith\ncame out from behind his own net and fired a breakout pass that hit Fuhr in the\nback of the leg. Fuhr was backing up at the time and never saw what\nhappened. The puck went straight off Fuhr's leg and into the net. Fuhr never\nhad a chance. There was no play back to the goaltender, in fact Perry Berezan\nof Calgary had just dumped it in and Smith was retrieving it. \n\nIt was unfortunate that it happened; Smith is a nice guy and was only a rookie\nat the time, and on his birthday too. But all the blame lies with him. Starting\nin pee-wee coaches tell players never to make a cross-ice pass in front of \ntheir own net. Too much chance of having it intercepted, or hitting the \ngoaltender, or whatever.\n\nAnd to the people who say that Smith cost the Oilers the series, I can only\nsay that he certainly didn't cause the team to lose the other three games.\nThere was no reason for a powerhouse team like Edmonton to be tied late\nin the third period of the 7th game of the second round. Everybody on the team\nhas to take responsibility for them even being in that situation.", "\nJohnny Mize had six three-HR games, which is the current record.\n", "Buck Showalter just can't win. \n\nBob Wickman's pitching the game of his life through eight innings (Yanks\nlead 6-1), so Buck decides to let the kid try and get his first complete\ngame. Wickman manages to get two outs, but in between, four funs score,\nand all of a sudden it's 6-5, and Wickman just can't get the third out.\nSo Buck goes to the bullpen, and Farr gets out the first guy he faces.\n\nLast night, Jimmy Key is pitching another in a long string of games of his\nlife (this guy just keeps getting better!) through eight innings (Yanks\nlead 4-0). This time, Buck thinks, \"I don't want a repeat of that\nnear-fiasco with Wickman, so I'll give my bullpen some work.\" Steve Howe,\nwhose ERA was 54.00 coming into the game, left with it at 81.00. He didn't\ndo too good. Then Farr comes in. He gives up a two-run homer, and the\nRoyals win it, 6-5.\n\nWhat's going on? This is already the third or fourth time this year that\nthe bullpen has blown a lead. Farr & Howe have done it twice together,\nMonteleone's done it once, and I think even Habyan did it once. What's the\ndeal? We finally have terrific starting pitching, so all of a sudden, our\nbullpen turns to shit!\n\nWhat's Buck gonna do? And what's George gonna do if this continues to happen?", "Here is a review of some of the off-ice things that have\naffected the AHL this year.\n\n\nST JOHN'S MAPLE LEAFS PROBLEMS\nThe St John's Maple Leafs sophomore season has been plagued by\nproblems. On-ice, the Leafs won the Atlantic Division title but\noff ice was less happy. A strike by public workers has forced the\nleafs out of the Newfoundland city for much of the last half of\nthe seaosn (since mid-Jan). They have played \"home\" games in places\nlike Montreal, Cornwall and Charlottetown. Their playoff \"home\"\ngames will be played in the Metro Center in Halifax, NS. One\ndemostration got violent. Workers attacked a Leafs' bus and\nrocked it and broke windows in the St John's Memorial Stadium.\nDespite the problems, Toronto officials insist that the Leafs\nwill return to St John's once the strike ends.\n===================================================\nSENATORS SOLD\nThe New Haven Senators have been sold by Peter Shipman to\nthe Ottawa Senators NHL organization. They are the only Canadian\nNHL team with an American AHL affiliate, and have made it clear\nthey intend to move the team to somewhere in the Canadian Atlantic\nProvinces. This sale and move has yet to be approved by the AHL\nhead office, but is expected to pass easily at the general meeting\nin May. The quote in the story from Jack Butterfield made it \nclear the league was more interested in the stability of the \nAHL franchise accompanied by NHL ownership, rather than maintaining\nthe 56-year history of the AHL in New Haven. \n\nThe Senators are currently in serious negotiations with Charlottetown\nNew Brunswick and are expected to move there.\n==================================================\nDALLAS HELPS HAWKS STAY IN MONCTON\nAfter announcing that they would pull their affiliation out\nof Moncton, the Winnipeg Jets changed their mind. \n\nThe Jets announced the move when they said that they would be slashing\ntheir minor league roster from 20-something to around a dozen; and they\nwanted to share with an existing AHL or IHL franchise.\n\nEnter the Dallas Lone Stars. Dallas agreed to supply the remaining\n6 or 8 players to the Moncton franchise. Thus keeping the Hawks\nin the New Brunswick city.\n\nThe deal is for one year and will be extended to three years if\nthe season ticket base increases to over 3000. The Hawks only sold\n1400 for this year.\n============================================================\nSAINT JOHN FLAMES OFFICIAL\nThe Calgary Flames have officially signed a deal with the city of\nSaint John, NB. The Saint John Blue Flames will play in the 6200\nExhibition Center. The Flames still have to apply for an expansion\nfrnachise from the AHL but are expected to have no trouble.\n=========================================================\nCAPS FOLLOW JACKS TO MAINE\nDespite rumors to the contrary, the Capitals will follow the Baltimore\nSkipjacks to Maine. The Caps' current farm team, the Baltimore Skipjacks,\nannounced that they would move to Maine and become the Portland Pirates.\nThere was much doubt as to if the Caps would follow but they announced\na limited deal with Portland. They would supply a dozen or so players\nincluding 2 goalies. They become the third team to announce a limited\nfarm team along with Moncton and the Capital District Islanders.\n======================================================\nAHL GAME OF THE WEEK\nIn early January, the AHL started a game of the week. The game, produced\nby, I believe, Pyman Productions, was televised across the Canadian\nMaritimes and northeastern US. The first few weeks saw two games of\nthe week, one in Canada and another in the US but since then, there\nhas been only one. Sunday afternoon and night games were covered and\nshown on Sportschannel NY and NE in the US and, I believe, Atlantic\nSports Network in Canada (but I'm not sure about that). I am not\nsure if playoff games will be covered.\n=====================================================\nUTICA GONE? SYRACUSE ADDED?\nThere were heavy rumors that the Utica Devils will not be around next\nseason. There were rumors that they might be headed to a midwestern\ncity and that the city of Syracuse is trying to lure them.\n=====================================================\nWHAT THE AHL MIGHT LOOK LIKE NEXT YEAR\n\nONE OPTION\t\t\t\tANOTHER OPTION\n\t\t\t\nNorthern Division\t\t\tSouthern Division\nADIRONDACK RED WINGS\t\t\tADIRONDACK\nSPRINGFIELD INDIANS\t\t\tSPRINGFIELD\nPROVIDENCE BRUINS\t\t\tPROVIDENCE\nCD ISLANDERS\t\t\t\tCDI\nPORTLAND PIRATES\t\t\tHERSHEY\n\t\t\t\t\tBINGHAMTON\nSouthern Division\t\t\tROCHESTER\nHERSHEY BEARS\t\t\t\tHAMILTON\nBINGHAMTON RANGERS\t\t\tUTICA\nROCHESTER AMERICANS\nHAMILTON CANUCKS\t\t\tAtlantic Division\nUTICA (?) DEVILS\t\t\tPORTLAND \n\t\t\t\t\tST JOHN'S\nAtlantic Division\t\t\tSAINT JOHN\nST JOHN'S MAPLE LEAFS\t\t\tMONCTON\nMONCTON HAWKS\t\t\t\tHALIFAX\nHALIFAX CITADELS\t\t\tFREDERICTON\nCAPE BRETON OILERS\t\t\tCAPE BRETON\nFREDERICTON CANADIENS\t\t\tCHARLOTTETOWN\nSAINT JOHN BLUE FLAMES\nCHARLOTTETOWN SENATORS (move is unofficial as yet)", "While watching the Penguins/Devils game last night, I saw the \"slash\" that\nBarrasso took on the neck. This brought to mind the goaltender who had his\njugular vein cut by a skate. I think he was a Sabre, but I'm not positive.\nDoes anyone remember/know his name? What has happened to him since? What\nabout the player whose skate cut the goalie? Name? Info? Has this ever\nhappened before in a hockey game? \n\nThanks,", "Isn't he the guy who took shots at Jagr and Ulf in a recent Sports\nIllustrated? I'm not familiar with Cherry's work, and maybe he's known\nfor sarcasm, but I'd have to wonder about him doing commentary for the Pens.", "\n\n\n\nI disagree. McNall has demonstrated with Gretzky that a star brings out the\ncrowds whether or not the team is expected to do well. Very few fans real-\nistically expect the Kings to do well this year (although I do) and yet they\nstill go out to see Gretzky. This is the marketing strategy - selling the\ngame by selling the stars - that is employed by Baseball and, notably, the\nNBA and this is the attitude that the new Bettman/McNall leadership is \nbringing to the league. They have gone on record as stating that they are\ntrying to sell the game on its stars. Timo Salami and Brett Hull are perfect \nexamples of players that real fans know aren't worth a damn and yet, being\nbenificiaries of marketing-oriented coaching strategies, have goal totals\nthat would indicate to the casual observer, the very fans the NHL wants to\nattract, that these players are indeed superstars.\n\n\n\nIt ain't nearly so simple as this. The casual fan doesn't think about much \nat all. Can you actually find an adult with a 3 digit IQ who believes that\nMcDonalds makes good hamburgers?\n \n\nYes but apparently the Rocket has not lived up to his marketing responsi-\nbilities has he? He was hyped, initially, as a superstar, but outside of\none Grey Cup game he has done very little to maintain/enhance that assess-\nment of his talents. Most Argo fans probably feel the team would be better\noff without him. \n\ncordially, as always,\n\nrm\n", "Ten years ago, the number of Europeans in the NHL was roughly a quarter\nof what it is now. Going into the 1992/93 season, the numbers of Euros on\nNHL teams have escalated to the following stats:\n\nCanadians: 400\nAmericans: 100\nEuropeans: 100\n\n Please note that these numbers are rounded off, and taken from the top\n25 players on each of the 24 teams. My source is the Vancouver Sun.\n\n Here's the point: there are far too many Europeans in the NHL. I am sick\nof watching a game between an American and a Canadian team (let's say, the\nRed Wings and the Canucks) and seeing names like \"Bure\" \"Konstantinov\" and\n\"Borshevshky\". Is this North America or isn't it? Toronto, Detriot, Quebec,\nand Edmonton are particularly annoying, but the numbers of Euros on other\nteams is getting worse as well. \n\n I live in Vancouver and if I hear one more word about \"Pavel Bure, the\nRussian Rocket\" I will completely throw up. As it is now, every time I see\nthe Canucks play I keep hoping someone will cross-check Bure into the plexiglassso hard they have to carry him out on a stretcher. (By the way, I'm not a\nCanucks fan to begin with ;-). \n\n Okay, the stretcher remark was a little carried away. But the point is that\nI resent NHL owners drafting all these Europeans INSTEAD of Canadians (and\nsome Americans). It denies young Canadians the opportunity to play in THEIR\nNORTH AMERICAN LEAGUE and instead gives it to Europeans, who aren't even\nbetter hockey players. It's all hype. This \"European mystique\" is sickening,\nbut until NHL owners get over it, Canadian and American players will continue\nto have to fight harder to get drafted into their own league.\n\n With the numbers of Euros in the NHL escalating, the problem is clearly\nonly getting worse.\n\n I'm all for the creation of a European Hockey League, and let the Bures\nand Selannes of the world play on their own continent.\n\n I just don't want them on mine.\n\n\n \n \n-- \nRichard J. Rauser \"You have no idea what you're doing.\"\nrauser@sfu.ca \"Oh, don't worry about that. We're professional\nWNI outlaws - we do this for a living.\"", "\n\nFor an expansion team? I'm pretty sure I would go with the rings, as long\nas their salaries and ages weren't too high. I would want the fans to be \nable to identify the players. I would like a championship attitude in the \nclubhouse.\n\nAs for Larkin and Griffin? Salaries aside, I would have to consider which\nplayer is likeliest to contribute to a WS victory. Past performance, age and\nattitude would all be integral to my decision. I certainly wouldn't just\nhaul out my copy of Gillete and pick Larkin, as many others would. And,\nunlike many others who post to this group, I hardly consider myself quali-\nfied to make those kinds of decisions.\n\n\nI have never been able to believe it about myself, to tell you the truth.\nIt's like banging your head against a stone wall.\n\n-- ", "1993 World Championships in Germany:\n ====================================\n\n Group A standings (Munich) Group B standings (Dortmund)\n -------------------------- ----------------------------\n\n GP W T L GF-GA +/- P GP W T L GF-GA +/- P\n\n Canada 2 2 0 0 6-1 +5 4 Czech republic 2 1 1 0 6-1 +5 3\n Russia 2 1 1 0 6-4 +2 3 Finland 2 1 1 0 3-1 +2 3\n Italy 2 1 1 0 3-2 +1 3 Germany 2 1 0 1 6-5 +1 2\n Sweden 2 1 0 1 2-4 -2 2 USA 2 0 2 0 2-2 0 2\n -------------------------------- -----------------------------------\n Austria 2 0 0 2 2-5 -3 0 France 1 0 0 1 0-2 -2 0\n Switzerland 2 0 0 2 0-3 -3 0 Norway 1 0 0 1 0-6 -6 0\n\n \n April 18: Italy - Russia 2-2 Norway - Germany 0-6\n Sweden - Austria 1-0 USA - Czech republic 1-1\n\n April 19: Canada - Switzerland 2-0\n Russia - Austria 4-2 Finland - France 2-0\n\n April 20: Sweden - Canada 1-4 Czech republic - Germany 5-0\n Switzerland - Italy 0-1 Finland - USA 1-1\n\n April 21: Germany - France\t\t15:30\n Italy - Sweden Czech republic - Norway\t20:00\n\n April 22: Switzerland - Russia USA - France\t\t15:30\n Austria - Canada Norway - Finland\t\t20:00\n\n April 23: Switzerland - Austria Germany - Finland\t\t20:00\n\n April 24: Russia - Sweden Czech republic - France\t15:30\n Canada - Italy USA - Norway\t\t20:00\n\n April 25: Sweden - Switzerland Finland- Czech republic \t15:30\n Russia - Canada Germany - USA\t\t20:00\n\n April 26: Austria - Italy France - Norway\t\t20:00\n\n \n PLAYOFFS:\n =========\n\n April 27:\tQuarterfinals\n\t\tA #2 - B #3\t\t\t\t\t\t15:30\n\t\tA #3 - B #2\t\t\t\t\t\t20:00\n\n April 28:\tQuarterfinals\n\t\tA #1 - B #4\t\t\t\t\t\t15:30\n\t\tA #4 - B #1\t\t\t\t\t\t20:00\n\n April 29:\tRelegation\n\t\tA #5 - B #6\t\t\t\t\t\t15:30\n\t\tA #6 - B #5\t\t\t\t\t\t20:00\n\n April 30:\tSemifinals\n\t\tA #1/B #4 - A #3/B #2\t\t\t\t\t15:30\n\t\tA #4/B #1 - A #2/B #3\t\t\t\t\t20:00\n\n May 1:\t\tRelegation\t\t\t\t\t\t14:30\n\t\tBronze medal game \t\t\t\t\t19:00\n\n May 2:\t\tFINAL\t\t\t\t\t\t\t15:00\n", "\t\t\t\t\t\t ^^^^\n ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^\n\tWhoa. Aren't you forgetting a couple of guys named Gant and Justice?\n\n \n\tHe can lead off. He'll probably steal 40. He might hit .300. He'll\nnever hit 20+ homers. I think you went 2 for 4 on this one.\n \n\t\t ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\tYou said it all right there. \n\n\tDoes anyone else out there not like Deon? I think he's all hype.\nHis .300 season last year was good, but I'm not convinced that he can do\nit again. It reminds me (sorry) of the year 1987(?) when Tim Wallach hit\n30 or so homers and had 127 RBI. It never even came close to happening \nagain. Of course, maybe I just prefer guys who go about their business\nand don't play it up for the attention. Just my HO.\n\nDoug Roberts - Larry Walker is God. Delino Deshields thinks he is.", ": In article <34592@oasys.dt.navy.mil> odell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Bernard O'farmer\n: >I am not quite sure of the reasons, but the old man was certainly\n: >not \"enraptured\" by ole Harry.\n\n: But maybe his wife was :-) \n\n: I don't claim to know whether it's true or not, but a couple different\n: people (totally unrelated) have said Harry was 'relieved' of his duties\n: because he had more than platonic relations with Augie Busch's wife.\n: Judgement is left to the individual, cuz I sure don't claim to be an\n: impeachable source in this case. \n\nAmong those who have said it (well, not quite SAID it but certainly\nalluded to it) is Bing Devine, Redbird GM or some other administrator at\nthe time. I heard Bing speak about it at last year's SABR National.\n\nBTW, have we had a show of hands about who will be attending this year's\nSABR National in San Diego? I'll be there...\n--", "Borchevsky is 5'9\" and Gilmour is 5'11\"...I think Gilmour slightly\noutweighs Borchevsky. Andreychuk is also about 5'11\", I think.", "\n\tOh, yeah. Dave Winfield--marginal player. Guy didn't hit a lick, had\nnegligible power, was a crap fielder and had no staying power. Dave Winfield,\nnow entering his (I believe) 20th big league season, is still a damn decent\nhitter. Admittedly, his defense has slipped a great deal, but in his prime,\nhe had a powerful arm and great range. Take a look at the stats: I don't \nknow where you even BEGIN to make an argument that Winfield and Kingman are\nsimilar players. Kingman was a one-dimension power hitter--he couldn't field,\nhe ran like an anvil, hit for a low average (though, if I remember right, his\nOBP wasn't THAT hideous...), and (for those who consider such things important)\nwas a absolute-primo-dick. \n\tEddie Murray? Yup, only the best 1st baseman of the 80's. I know that\nMVP votes are conducted by mediots, but given that he got jobbed out of the\nMVP he deserved in 1983, it seems that he wasn't overrated by the media. \n\tLee Smith? Hmmmm... This one's actually pretty close. He's had a s\nsolid, dependable career as a closer despite pitching in some nasty parks \n(Wrigley, Fenway...). I'd have to take a closer look at the stats (it's been \na while), but it seems Lee Arthur is of HOF caliber. \n\tYou do make a legitimate point about the HOF credentials of relievers,\nsimply racking up a lot of saves doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot if you \nblow a bunch, too. Simply because Minnesota and Boston and (for a month)\nAtlanta used Reardon as a closer for longer than he should have been one, \nthe Equalizer has racked up an impressive number of saves. No way should \nHomerMan be in the HOF, IMHO.\n\tDarrell Evans? Nice career, actually a bit underrated (kinda like\nTed Simmons, IMHO), but not a HOF'er.\n\n\n\tLemme ask you this. Who the hell playing the game ISN'T marginal?\n\n\n\tNow, wait a goddamn minute here. Ozzie Smith absolutely REDEFINED the\nposition of shortstop. His defense was SO good that he's won something along\nthe lines of 10 Gold Gloves. Again, Gold Gloves are mediot-biased, and a \ngood argument could be made that Larkin deserved one or two of Ozzie's more\nrecent awards, but usually, this is tempered by someone else in the early\n80's getting the Gold Gloves Ozzie deserved earlier in his career. Ozzie's\noffense, you ask? Good OBP, great speed numbers, in a park which, for most of his\ncareer, depressed offense, admittedly, no power ('cept against Tom Niedenfuer\n:-|), but still, a definite asset offensively.\n\tYount? 3,000 hits, MVP at two different positions, uh-huh, a real\nstiff. His '82 was one of the great years EVER by a player in recent memory,\nand probably ranks behind only the peak seasons of Wagner and Banks, as far as\nSS numbers go. He's a clear HOF'er, IMHO.\n\n\n\tWell, as far as Garvey goes, you're right. Garvey is a \"mediot\" \ncandidate, pushed because of his \"winning attitude\" (a minor factor, if one\nat all), and his \"great defense\" (no errors, admittedly, but the range of\na tree stump...). Garvey shouldn't be in the HOF.\n\tSkyJack? I've said a lot of nasty things about SkyJack in the last\nyear or so, but this is mostly in response to mediots and woofers who talk\nabout Morris' \"ability to win\" which is nothing more than Morris' \"ability\nto pitch when Toronto to score tons of runs\". At this point, Morris is an\naverage pitcher (although from his early returns in '93, he may be damned \nclose to done.). But, in all fairness, Morris was a dominant pitcher in the\n80's for up-and-down Tiger teams. While 1984 was (obviously) a great year\nfor Detroit, the rest of the decade, the team was generally in contention, but\nnot favorites. Morris' career numbers are quite good, and worthy of HOF\n\"consideration\". \n\tRyan? Of course, but be careful. I guarantee you that someone will\nthrow back your earlier logic about \"Yount and Smith being shortstops who \nhung around a long time\". After all, Nolan never won a Cy... Damn, he's \njust pitcher who hung around for 99 years... His W-L record is mediocre...\n(Of course, Nolan's a HOF'er...)\n\tPuck? Probably, although he's got to play reasonably well for a few\nmore years (10 years, even good ones, aren't enough to make the HOF, most\nlikely). That said, I believe Puckett WILL make the HOF, pretty much\nregardless of how the rest of his career turns out (barring something REALLY \ntragic or sudden). He's very popular in the media and with fans, and\nlegitimately has been one of the best CF's in the game since he joined the\nleague. I've always liked the guy, and I hope he does make it. And, in the\nend, I think the Puck will make it in. But, really, it's too early to sell.\n\n\tThis debate comes up rather frequently on the net, and, believe it \nor not, I never tire of it. It's an interesting subject. Here's an off\nthe top of my head list of potential HOF'ers from each team. I probably\nleft a couple of guys off, so feel free to follow up. I won't consider ANYONE\nwho started playing after about 1985 (again, too early to tell.) [Note: these\nare all active players, I'm not counting recent retirees]\n\nBaltimore: Cal Ripken (should be a lock by now, even if Gehrig's record stands)\nBoston: Roger Clemens (might be a lock already, which is amazing), Dawson (?)\nDetroit: Alan Trammell and Lou Whitaker (possibilities)\nMilwaukee: Robin Yount (discussed earlier)\nNew York: Wade Boggs (possibly), Mattingly (long shot)\nToronto: Paul Molitor and Jack Morris (possibilities)\n\nKansas City: George Brett (lock)\nMinnesota: Kirby (too early to tell), Winfield (lock)\nOakland: Eckersley (lock), McGwire (too early), Rickey (lock), Welch (LONG shot)\nTexas: The Mighty Nolan [Too early to consider Canseco or Strange :-)]\n\nCubs: Sandberg (lock)\nSt. Louis: Ozzie (lock), Lee Smith (probably)\nNew York: Murray (almost a lock), Saberhagen (obviously, he's got to regain\n\t\t\t\t \t past form)\n[And most certainly, NOT Vince Coleman, despite what he'll tell you :-)]\n\nLos Angeles: Butler, Strawberry, and Hershiser are all long shots.\nSan Diego: Tony Gwynn (pretty good shot)\nColorado: Dale Murphy (a good shot), Ryan Bowen (just to see if you're awake)\n\n\t[Before I get flames: this is an off-the-top-of-the-head list, there's\nprobably a few deserving candidates that I left off, and, I didn't include\nBarry Bonds, Will Clark, Any Atlanta Starting Pitcher, Frank Thomas, Canseco,\nMcGriff, etc. because I only considered guys who started playing before\n1985)]\n\n\tE-mail or post, I almost fear what I may have started here...\n", "HEY!!! All you Yankee fans who've been knocking my prediction of Baltimore.\nYou flooded my mailbox with cries of \"Militello's good, Militello's good.\"\n\nWhere is he??!! I noticed he got skipped over after that oh so strong first\nouting. He's not by any chance in Columbus now, is he? Please don't tell\nme you're relying on this guy to be the *fourth*, not the fifth, but the \n*fourth* starter on this brittle pitching staff. \n\nAs for the O's, it's still early.\n\n\nSee y'all at the ballyard\nGo Braves\nChop Chop\n\nMichael Mule'\n", "\nWhile I agree that Lemieux deserves the Hart, it is far from a \"no-brainer\". \nThe Hart trophy goes to the player most valuable to his team, not to the best\nplayer in the league. So your above arguement is really worthless. \n\nThe Pens without Mario are still a damn good hockey team. The Leafs without \nGilmour would have been fighting Tampa Bay for the 3rd pick. \n\nLike I said, Mario deserves it, IMHO. But it is a very close race and a \nGilmour victory would not surprise me. I dislike Doug Gilmour with a passion, \nbut I must concede that he is extremely valuable to the Leafs.", "\nLocal to the Joe Louis Arena? You mean local to Olympia Stadium, where\nRed Wings games were played until fairly recently (early 80s comes to\nmind). As far as I know, the rest of the post is basically correct. If\nwhat you meant by local was simply Detroit and I'm being incredibly\npicky, okay, sorry about that.\n", "April 1, 1993\n\n\nI am participating in an NL-league that uses standard Rotisserie rules\nexcept that the following catagories are used:\n\nFor position players:\n\tlowest batting average\n\tstrike-outs\n\tcaught-stealing\n\terrors\n\nFor pitchers:\n\tlosses\n\tblown saves\n\thigest ERA\n\t'taters allowed\n\nThis is the fifth year that I've participated in this Blowtisserie\nleague. Last year I won the pennant due primarily to the fact that\nI had terrible pitching. I would like to lower my batting average\nwhich is rather high because I do have Jose Offerman (who made up\nfor this by helping me lock first place in errors). Anyway,\nsomeone offered:\n\nAndres Gallaraga for Bud Black\n\nI can afford to give up Bud Black because I still have Kyle Abbott.\nHowever, I am afraid of Andres actually doing well this season.\nShould I make the trade or not?\n\nYour comments will be appreciated.\n\n-- \nWarren Usui", "\nHis performance at the plate may well be from the shoulder injury\nreceived when he ran into the wall making a catch in the Cincy series.\nIt may also be him pressing a little.\n\nAs for the baserunning, it does not appear to be just Lankford.\nDent made the bad call sending Lankford in the Sunday night game\nagainst Cincy - but everyone had a bad time against the Dodger's catcher.\n\n\nGood question. At least it doesn't appear that we are seeing the\nsame Zeile :-)\n", "\n\n\nThis is certainly not the case. There is no significant *ability* toi\nperform in the clutch, but clutch performance certainly happens every\ntime there is a game-winning hit. The \"clutch pitching\" quoted above is\nsomething which happened, not a claim that any particular player should\nbe expected to be a clutch pitcher.\n\n\n\nSimple statistics tell me that there is a 2% chance an average clutch\nhitter would have this large a split (the average decrease is 7 points,\nstandard deviation about 30). There will be such hitters in any league,\njust as there will be hitters who hit poorly on Tuesdays.\n\nAnd there is only a very weak correlation (.01 in my best study) between\nclutch hitting in the last four years and clutch hitting this year,\nprobably because most of the clutch data is determinaed by luck rather\nthan any ability. *Based only on this data*, I don't see any reason to\npinch-hit for Sabo, or any other player who had been a poor clutch\nhitter in the past.\n\nBut there are many other factors involved in a decision to pinch-hit.\nDoes the pinch-hitter give you a platoon advantage? (Any portion of\nSabo's clutch split that results from his platoon split is certainly a\nreal ability, even if it has nothing to do with clutch hitting.) Do you\nhave a singles hitter at the plate when you need a home run? Do you\nhave a curveball pitcher facing a batter who has trouble with curves?\n", "\n\nActually, for the Padres this year so far it's 23%. They are 5th in\nthe league in HRs, and ALL have been solo shots.\n\nPythagorean projection puts them at .360 winning percentage\nor 58-104. Need some pitching help, fast!\n\nGood news, though, is that Hurst has been throwing curveballs\nw/o any pain. Threw 80 pitches yesterday. Should be back\nin a couple of weeks. Maybe we can trade him to the Yankees\nfor Militello.\n\nDave", " \nFor your information, Lankford is injured (I think it is his shoulder or rib\ncage), so he could not use him as a pinch hitter.\n \nI do believe that Whiten was a very good aquisition for the Cards. He does\nnot have too much offensive capabilities, but he is an awesome defensively.\nSince when have the Cardnials actually thought of offense instead of defense?:)\nI forgot who St. Louis gave up for him, but it was not too much.\n \nAs far as Gilkey is concerned, he is a leftfielder and so is Brian Jordan, who\nbeat him out. I expect to see a Gilkey/Jordan platoon in LF.\n \nI agree with you on this one. As soon as Larkin threw that ball, I knew that\nLankford was a dead bird. But how could Dent have known that Larkin would make\na perfect throw?\n \nI strongly believe that Torre is one of the best managers in baseball. Don't\nforget the overachieving Cards of '91 that won all those close games and went\nfrom last place to second place (although they were oveshadowed by the Braves/\nTwins last to first climb). He won a division title, and barely lost a pennant\nrace when he was with the Braves (why Atlanta ever even considered firing him I\nwill never understand). With Torre at the controls, the Cardinals are heading\nin the right direction.\n \nOne more thing, one game does not make a season. Yes, they lost to the Reds,\nbut with the second best pitching staff in the National League (first in the\nEast), and a pretty good offense, the Redbirds will win a lot more than they\nlose. Maybe this is the year that they will go all the way.\n \nCharles, a very enthusiastic Cardnials fan\n \n -----------------------------------------------------------------\n º Charles Rosen º THIRTY-FOUR TO THIRTEEN!!! º\n º University of Alabama º NATIONAL CHAMPS!!! ROLL TIDE!!! º\n º Tuscaloosa, AL º (Need I Say More?) º", "\nYou need to use your shoulder muscles to push the mower. If you haven't been\ndoing much exercise, as I suppose you haven't, then a constant 20 minute\nlong effort can cause stiffness and cramps.", "\n\nI am not at all clear about what you are trying to say here. If you\nasked somone, who had never heard of hockey before, if LA played in\nthe Smythe division what do you think that the response would be?\nWhat if you asked this person if LA played in the West division? The\nnaming of divisions after long-dead entrepreneurs is unnecessary\nobfuscation.\n\n\n\nHardly. The \"established\" situation existed prior to Smythe, et al.\nThe Stanley Cup was a challenge trophy up for grabs to whatever team\ncould successfully mount the challenge. What our dear founders did\nwas formalize the challenge. They created a closed league, an oligop-\nolistic professional system, in the interests of making money. Wheth-\ner or not that system has contributed to better hockey is certainly\ndebatable. We are, however, stuck with their invention and that de-\nbate is academic. The point to be made, however, is that people\nplayed hockey and people enjoyed watching hockey long before Smythe\nand his pals showed up.\n\n\nWhat's wrong with best defenceman, period? Was there ever a better\ndefenceman? Was there ever a better player? And if you think that\nBruce Norris' contribution was somehow more significant than Bobby\nOrr's then, in the interests of education, why don't you take a poll\nand find out how many people know who Norris was? But you don't have\nto, do you?\n\n\nSo you don't feel that you should have to make the effort to remember\nthat Vancouver plays in the West division? (Or Pacific, or whatever\nother intuitively understandable moniker is chosen.)\n\n\n\nAnd of course you neatly deleted Jason's jingoistic rant about the\ngame losing its \"Canadianization\". Quoting me out of context does\nmore to erode your credibility than it does mine. My position is\nclearly progressive and is anything but \"biased, closed minded, ig-\nnorant\". Arrogant, I will grant you.\n\n\nNice try John. But for a flame to be truly effective you have to\ndisplay at least enough intelligence to earn your target's\nrespect.\n\ncordially, as always,\n\nrm \n", ": FINLAND: \n: \n: D-Jyrki Lumme.......20\n: D-Teppo Numminen....20\n: D-Peter Ahola.......13\n: \nWell well, they don't like our defenders (mainly Lumme and Numminen)...\n\n: C-Jari Kurri........25\n: C-Christian Ruuttu..16\n: \nNow, do YOU think that Ruuttu is only worth 16 ? I think it might be 20.\n\n: R-Teemu Selanne.....27\n: \nCompared to Kurri, Selanne's points are too high, lets make it 25 or 26.\n\n\n: well in the Canada Cup and World Championships largely due to the efforts of\n: Markus Ketterer (the goalie), 3-4 or the players listed above and luck. There's\n: presumably a lot of decent players in Finland that wouldn't be superstars at\n: the highest level but still valuable role players, however. My guess would be\n: that the Finnish Canada Cup team would be a .500 team in the NHL.\n\nWow, now, it looks like you don't like our players? What about guys like:\nNieminen, Jutila, Riihijarvi, Varvio, Laukkanen, Makela, Keskinen and (even\nif he is aging) Ruotsalainen? The main difference between finnish and North-\nAmerican players is, that our players tend to be better in the larger rink.\nThe Canadian defenders are usually slower that defenders in Europe. \nAnd I think that there was more in our success than Ketterer and luck (though\nthey helped). I think that the main reason was, that the team worked well\ntogether.", "Hi all you Ryno fans (and those interested...)\nTodays Chicago Tribune had this written in it today in regards to\nRyne Sandberg...\n\n\"Ryne Sandberg is ahead of schedule in his recovery from a broken\nleft hand and could be back in the lineup by May 1, manager Jim\nLefebvre said Friday.\nDoctors cleared Sandberg to swing a padded bat at a ball in his \ngloved hand.\n'' I'm not surprised his rehabilitation has been moved up,'' said\nLefebvre. '' He's a fast healer, and he doesn't like being on the \ndisabled list. He's been running since he was hurt [March 5] and\nis in the best shape of his life. May 1 is his target date for\ngetting back in the lineup.\"\n\nHold on to your hats Cub fans...more later as information\npresents itself.", "\n\tOr a Caps fan residing in Atlanta, where they DONT EVEN TELL\nTHE F&@(*@CKING PLAYOFF SCORES ON THE NEWS!!!!!\n", "Path:\nctron-news.ctron.com!noc.near.net!uunet!utcsri!newsflash.concordia.ca!mi\nizar.cc.umanitoba.ca!access.usask.ca!cs.Usask.CA!coulman\nFrom: coulman@cs.Usask.CA (Randy Coulman)\nNewsgroups: rec.sport.hockey\nSubject: Final Regular Season Individual Goalie Stats\nDate: Wed, 21 Apr 93 12:27:59 EDT\nOrganization: University of Saskatchewan\nLines: 103\nDistribution: world\nMessage-ID: <1r3smf$67m@access.usask.ca>\nReply-To: coulman@cs.Usask.CA\nNNTP-Posting-Host: skorpio.usask.ca\n\nI would appreciate it if someone could volunteer to verify the shots on goal\nand save percentage numbers for me, so I can put these stats on the archive\nsite. Contact me by mail if you want to volunteer.\n\nHere are the individual goalie stats as of: Wed Apr 21 09:09:38 CST 1993\n\nThese stats include games up to and including the Sunday previous to the date\nlisted above. They have been verified against what is printed in my newspaper\nevery Tuesday. They don't print shots and save percentage numbers, so those\nare not verified. These stats are available by mail every weekday and\nsometimes on weekends, if I'm in town and I can get late game results. Just\nsend me a note if you would like to receive these stats by mail.\n\nIf you have any questions, comments or suggestions, let me know.\n\nRandy\n\n-------\nMP = Minutes Played, GA = Goals against,\nSO = Shutouts, GAA = Goals against average\nW = Wins, L = Losses, T = Ties\nSOG = Shots on Goal, SV = Save Percentage\n\n MP GA SO GAA W L T SOG SV TM Player\n=======================================================\n 1 0 0 0.00 0 0 0 0 1.000 WAS Byron Dafoe\n 11 0 0 0.00 0 0 0 3 1.000 HAR Corrie D'Alessio\n 40 1 0 1.50 0 0 0 19 0.947 MTL Frederick Chabot\n 25 1 0 2.40 0 0 0 10 0.900 BOS Mike Bales\n2781 116 2 2.50 25 15 7 1287 0.910 TOR Felix Potvin\n4106 177 7 2.59 41 18 11 1879 0.906 CHI Ed Belfour\n1322 64 1 2.90 9 8 4 596 0.893 BOS John Blue\n 996 49 2 2.95 6 7 1 414 0.882 CHI Jim Waite\n3702 186 4 3.01 43 14 5 1889 0.902 PIT Tom Barrasso\n3890 196 1 3.02 29 28 9 2194 0.911 STL Curtis Joseph\n1817 94 1 3.10 18 8 4 858 0.890 VAN Kay Whitmore\n1429 75 0 3.15 11 10 4 716 0.895 BUF Dominik Hasek\n3194 168 3 3.16 37 14 3 1354 0.876 BOS Andy Moog\n1311 70 1 3.20 14 4 1 629 0.889 CAL Jeff Reese\n3595 192 2 3.20 31 25 5 1813 0.894 MTL Patrick Roy\n 168 9 0 3.21 1 1 1 87 0.897 HAR Mike Lenarduzzi\n1193 64 0 3.22 13 4 2 522 0.877 DET Vincent Riendeau\n1785 96 2 3.23 17 7 4 938 0.898 TOR Daren Puppa\n3880 210 4 3.25 34 24 7 1898 0.889 DET Tim Cheveldae\n3732 203 2 3.26 29 26 9 1805 0.888 CAL Mike Vernon\n2655 146 1 3.30 22 20 2 1314 0.889 NYI Glenn Healy\n3359 185 1 3.30 24 24 6 1726 0.893 BUF Grant Fuhr\n2757 152 4 3.31 20 18 7 1519 0.900 NYR John Vanbiesbrouck\n3282 181 1 3.31 27 23 5 1531 0.882 WAS Don Beaupre\n3476 193 3 3.33 26 26 5 1683 0.885 MIN Jon Casey\n3261 184 3 3.39 28 21 5 1620 0.886 VAN Kirk McLean\n2672 151 2 3.39 19 21 3 1322 0.886 NJ Chris Terreri\n1433 81 1 3.39 17 5 1 686 0.882 MTL Andre Racicot\n1939 110 0 3.40 18 9 4 947 0.884 QUE Stephane Fiset\n2512 143 5 3.42 20 17 6 1329 0.892 PHI Tommy Soderstrom\n1368 78 0 3.42 13 7 2 691 0.887 PIT Ken Wregget\n 542 31 0 3.43 5 4 0 225 0.862 BOS Reggie Lemelin\n2988 172 0 3.45 29 16 5 1525 0.887 QUE Ron Hextall\n2253 130 0 3.46 17 15 5 1067 0.878 NYI Mark Fitzpatrick\n3855 227 2 3.53 33 26 6 2119 0.893 WIN Bob Essensa\n1601 96 0 3.60 15 10 2 777 0.876 WIN Jim Hrivnak\n1596 97 1 3.65 10 12 5 803 0.879 MIN Darcy Wakaluk\n1591 97 0 3.66 7 19 2 757 0.872 TB Wendell Young\n1163 71 0 3.66 8 10 1 573 0.876 TB JC Bergeron\n2389 146 2 3.67 21 16 4 1180 0.876 NJ Craig Billington\n1210 74 1 3.67 8 8 2 628 0.882 STL Guy Hebert\n1302 80 2 3.69 8 12 0 664 0.880 WAS Rick Tabaracci\n 664 41 0 3.70 5 6 0 344 0.881 BUF Tom Draper\n 224 14 0 3.75 1 2 1 116 0.879 NYR Corey Hirsch\n1769 111 1 3.76 13 11 5 932 0.881 PHI Dominic Roussel\n2105 134 1 3.82 13 19 3 1184 0.887 NYR Mike Richter\n 157 10 0 3.82 1 2 0 78 0.872 NYI Danny Lorenz\n3753 240 1 3.84 17 38 6 2069 0.884 EDM Bill Ranford\n1735 111 0 3.84 15 8 4 987 0.888 LA Robb Stauber\n2718 175 2 3.86 18 21 6 1545 0.887 LA Kelly Hrudey\n 154 10 0 3.90 0 2 1 66 0.848 QUE Jacques Cloutier\n 867 57 0 3.94 5 9 1 499 0.886 HAR Mario Gosselin\n 532 35 0 3.95 6 4 0 294 0.881 LA Rick Knickle\n2268 150 1 3.97 8 24 4 1197 0.875 TB Pat Jablonski\n2074 142 1 4.11 7 26 0 1250 0.886 SJ Arturs Irbe\n2656 184 0 4.16 16 27 3 1470 0.875 HAR Sean Burke\n1338 93 0 4.17 9 12 2 763 0.878 EDM Ron Tugnutt\n1326 95 0 4.30 2 17 1 743 0.872 OTT Daniel Berthiaume\n 802 59 0 4.41 3 9 0 405 0.854 PHI Stephane Beauregard\n3388 250 0 4.43 8 46 3 1711 0.854 OTT Peter Sidorkiewicz\n 65 5 0 4.62 0 0 1 39 0.872 CAL Andrei Trefilov\n1373 111 0 4.85 4 15 1 784 0.858 HAR Frank Pietrangelo\n 73 6 0 4.93 0 0 1 34 0.824 WIN Mike O'Neill\n 60 5 0 5.00 0 1 0 46 0.891 SJ Wade Flaherty\n2000 176 0 5.28 2 30 1 1220 0.856 SJ Jeff Hackett\n 930 86 0 5.55 2 14 1 559 0.846 SJ Brian Hayward\n 160 15 0 5.63 0 3 0 91 0.835 TOR Rick Wamsley\n 20 2 0 6.00 0 0 0 7 0.714 WAS Olaf Kolzig\n 90 10 0 6.67 0 2 0 44 0.773 OTT Darrin Madeley\n 249 30 0 7.23 0 5 0 146 0.795 OTT Steve Weeks\n 98 13 0 7.96 0 2 0 51 0.745 LA David Goverde\n 45 7 0 9.33 0 1 0 21 0.667 TB David Littman\n\n-- \nRandy A. Coulman, M.Sc. | ARIES Laboratory\nResearch Assistant | Department of Computational Science\n | University of Saskatchewan\ncoulman@cs.Usask.ca | Saskatoon, SK S7N 0W0 \n", "1992-93 Los Angeles Kings notes.\n--------------------------------\nPlayoffs:\n---------\n*Stauber disturbed by third-man theme\nby Rick Sadowski, Daily News\n\nBarry Melrose's decision to stick Robb Stauber in the stands rather than in the\ncrease or even on the bench for the Stanley Cup playoffs does not sit well with\nthe rookie goaltender.\n\n\"I want to be a part of the team at the most crucial time of the year, the most\nfun time of the year, and I'm not,\" Stauber said with some emotion Monday. \"I\nthink I have worked hard enough for that.\"\n\nStauber said he accepts Melrose's choice of Kelly Hrudey as the teams top goalie\nin their playoff series with the Calgary Flames. Hrudey made 21 saves in Sundays\n6-3 opening victory.\n\nBut Stauber clearly is upset with his sudden status as the No. 3 man behind Rick\nKnickle. Stauber had a 4-1-2 record and 2.98 goals-against average down the\nstretch in the regular season and nearly wrestled the No. 1 job from Hrudey.\n\nKnickle? He won 2 of 3 decisions but had a bloated 5.26 average, twice was \nyanked from games (once for stomach cramps) and hasn't played since March 29.\n\nYet, when the series resumes Wednesday, Knickle will serve as Hrudey's backup\nagain and Stauber will have to satisfy his playoff hunger by munching on Olympic\nSaddledome popcorn.\n\n\"If I'm supposedly close to being the starter or could have been the starter...I\ndropped too. 3. What happened to No. 2?\" Stauber wondered. \"Not that I'd be\nhappy with No. 2, but I feel I should at least be a part of this team in the\nplayoffs.\"\n\nPerhaps Stauber eventually will get his chance, but Melrose apparently is not\nconvinced the 25-year old is capable of handling playoff pressure.\n\nWhile insisting he is the Kings' \"goalie of the future,\" Melrose said Stauber\nflubbed all four of the big games he was asked to win this season. They were,\naccording to Melrose: a 7-2 loss to San Jose on Dec. 26; An 8-3 loss to the New\nYork Rangers on Jan. 23; a 6-6 tie with Detroit on Feb. 11; an 8-6 loss to \nVancouver on Thursday.\n\n\"Four times this season Robb could have emerged as the elite goalie, he could\nhave taken it away from Kelly Hrudey, and he didn't do it,\" Melrose said. \"An\nelite goaltender has to carry the ball when you give it to him. The mark of a\ngreat goalie is that he isn't satisfied to be a backup.\"\n\n\"I'm not blaming Robb for the losses, but if you're going to be No. 1, you've\ngot to be able to walk your talk. You've got to be able to play when everything\nis on the line. Robb Stauber has a great deal of ability, but maybe I expect\nmore from him than he does.\"\n\nOuch. That remark stung Stauber. He began the season 9-0-1, struggled when the\nteam hit a mid-season slump, didn't play for a month after Knickle was signed\noff the San Diego Gulls roster, then came on at the end.\n\n\"I expect more from myself than anybody, including Barry Melrose,\" said Stauber,\na three-year star at the University of Minnesota who left school in 1989, only \nto have his development hampered by a string of serious injuries.\n\n\"What I've been through the last four years - two knee operations, a herniated\ndisk in my back, shoulder surgery - what more can I go through? I obviously do\nexpect a lot from myself, otherwise I wouldn't be here.\"\n\n\"Anybody who would disagree with that doesn't know me. I'm not saying Barry \ndoesn't know me, but don't say I've been without expectations. If anything, I'm\na perfectionist.\"\n\nStauber acknowledged he played poorly in the four games Melrose mentioned. \"But \neven though I didn't play well, I get knocked down from maybe on to three? It's \na bit of a jump,\" he said. \"You're almost No. 1, or if you play a good game \nyou're No. 1 and if you don't you're No. 3? Why does Jack Nicklaus shoot a 67 \nand then a 75? Can you explain that? That's what barry wanted me to explain \nto him, why I didn't come through when he counted on me. I don't know. What I \ndo know is, it's a sport. I'll be there.\"\n\nMelrose's \"goalie of the future\" statement doesn't mean much to Stauber. \"Before\nyou know it, I'll be 30 and there will be no future,\" he said.\n\n------\n\n*Game 1 of the Kings @ Flames playoff series drew a 4.2 Nielsen rating on ABC \nChannel 7 here in LA. The Kings averaged a 2.1 Nielsen rating in the 10 regular\nseason games aired on Channel 5.\n\nAround the NHL:\n---------------\n*San Jose fired Coach George Kingston, who lead the team to a 11-71-2 mark in \ntheir 2nd NHL season. Kingston was 28-129-7 over the past 2 years with the\nSharks.\n\n------\n\n*Former Islander executive Bill Torrey was named as President of the expansion\nFlorida Panthers. Bobby Clarke was named as the clubs General Manager.\n\n*Last nights games:\n-------------------\nWIN 2 @ VAN 4 (VAN leads 1-0)\nTOR 3 @ DET 6 (DET leads 1-0)\n\n===============================================================================\nStan Willis (willis@empire.dnet.hac.com)\nnet contact: L.A. Kings", "\n\n\n\nThat last was me, Steve Novak. I've since read the entire original\nposting by Hite.\n\nMr. Fischer was actually restrained. Let Mr. Hite hope he never makes\nsome similar, tiny mistake.\n", "\n THe bowler is John Burkett, who went to 4-0 last night. He is\na bargain pickup on my roto team, I got him at a minimum of $5.\n\n This is not really true. Excluding last season, the Giants\nhas been a better 2nd half team. In 1991, they had a hot August\nto pull to within a few games of the Braves and Dodgers before\nfading in September.\n The Giants may go back to earth, but not as fast as last\nseason for two reasons:\n(1) Barry Bonds\n(2) Roger Craig is no longer the manager. Dusty can manage\n his pitching staffs much better than Craig.", "I should have guessed. It's time for the annual Pittsburgh Penguins\nwhine-a-thon. Bowman was complaning about cheap shots by the Devils in\nGame 1. I'm sorry, Mr. Bowman, you're a great coach, but those \"cheap\nshots\" were nothing compared to what's going to come. Also, I guess you\nwere only able to notice the cheap shots made by the guys not in white.\nIt's amazing what those black and gold colored glasses will do. \n\nPS - Nice dive on that high stick Mario. Everyone knew it was a high\nstick, you could have stayed on your feet and saved your diving talent\nfor later.", "\tThe Sharks appear to be leaning toward picking Rob\n\tNiedermayer, a center (his brother Scott (?) is a defenseman\n\tpicked by NJ a couple years ago). They brought him in for a\n\tphysical/tryout a week or so ago. From what I have read\n\tNiedermayer is the best skater in the draft, plays BOTH\n\toffense and defense, and isn't afraid of physical play.\n\tDefensively the Sharks are looking pretty good in terms of\n\tdefense prospects (Rathje, Sykora, Ragnarsson), and our\n\tcenters (Kisio et al) are getting old.\n\n\tWith all of the small players the Sharks have I justs CAN't\n\tsee them picking yet another small player like Kariya, he'd\n\tjust get bashed by the oppposition and get a separated \n\tshoulder.", "Lowenstein is NOT Jewish. However, there is a long list including\nHank Greenberg, Moe Berg, Rod Carew (a convert), the Sherry brothers,\nArt Shamsky, and Ron Blomberg.", "\n: >Compiled from the last five Defensive Average reports, here are the career\n: >DAs for the individual players in the reports. Stats are courtesy of\n: >Sherri Nichols. Players are listed in descending order.\n\n: And some comments, with some players deleted.\n\n: >Third Basemen\n: >-------------\n: >Leius, Scott ---- ---- ---- .653 .680 0.672\n: Looks good. Too bad he's moving to short.\n\n: >Pagliarulo, Mike .631 ---- .575 .744 ---- 0.649\n: This is an interesting line. His 1988 figure was slightly below average.\n: His 1990 was pathetic, and his 1991 was the next best year by anybody. Part of\n: that may be his mobility. 1988 was with the Yankees. 1990 was with the\n: Padres, who appear to have a rotten infield. 1991 was with the Twins, and\n: judging by Leius and Gaetti, the Metrodome may be a good place to play\n: third.\n\nGaetti, Gary .616 .638 .655 .632 ---- 0.637\n\nApologies if I don't know what I'm talking about :-), but as a Twins fan,\nI like to think they have good players in any park. Not sure if I remember\ncompletely or not, but I think Gaetti played with the Twins in '87 for the \nworld series, and again in '88 (note that's his lowest of the 4). I believe \nthe next 3 (or at least the last two) were played with the Angels. Lots\nof factors make a player excell... I hate it when so many use the dome.\nIt may not be ideal, but nice to comfortably enjoy baseball and football \neven when it's snowing and raining.\n\n-Craig", "I thought that Walt Weiss was jewish. I seem to recall this\nwas mentioned once while he was still at Oakland.\n\nAlso, I have my suspicions about Esther Canseco (nee Haddad).\n", "Okay... here's some gripe\"ing\" (?griping?... whatever).\n\n\t(I live in Santa Barbara... for reference... I think)\n\n\tOkay, ABC showed the Kings/Flames... fine... YAWN.\n\n\tESPN (through a fortunate rainout of a baseball game) showed the\n Red Wings/Toronto game... cool.\n\n\tBut I SWEAR that the advertisements all week long had said that\n ESPN would show Pitt/NJ on Tuesday and Bos/Buff on Thursday.\n\n\tI raced home from work early (4:30 Pacific) to catch the game, but\n ALAS, it was the Boston/Buffalo game and then they promised that they would\n show the Pitt/NJ game on Thursday. OVERNIGHT they changed their mind.\n\n\tI didn't mind THAT MUCH. I watched the game (hockey is MUCH better\n than NO hockey). During the game their were no video highlights from the\n Patrick division. What the hell was going on? At least they should show\n video highlights of the other games (especially the NYI/Caps game that was\n so close). My father (lives in Bowling Green, Kentucky [Bumbf*ck, Egypt])\n got to watch the Pens game on ESPN. I just don't get it.\n\n\tThe biggest problem is that Buffalo or Boston fans who didn't want\n to see the Pittsburgh/New Jersey game 2, will turn on their TVs on Thursday\n and see the Pittsburgh/New Jersey game 3 instead of the Buffalo/Boston game\n 3. At least, in my case, I just had to wait 2 more days to see my game.\n\n\tIf I were a big Boston or Buffalo fan and I missed the game on\n Tuesday due to false advertising on the part of ESPN, I'd be mad as\n hell.\n\n\tOh well... hopefully we'll get better coverage next year OR\n SOMETHING.\n\nMatt Coohill", "To those who are wondering what is happening in Minnesota:\n\n From what I have seen in the local news (TV and newspaper), various people \nin the area are trying to get a new hockey team. A columnist for the St. \nPaul \"Pioneer Press\" wrote an article giving the \"inside scoop\" on the \nissue. There are three local sites competing for a team and three possible \ncandiates to move to the Twin Cities. First the sites: Target Center, Civic \nCenter (St. Paul), and yes, even the Met Center. The columnist was pretty \nconfident that Minnesota will get a team, and that the Target Center will \nultimately win out. He argued, however, that the competition from the other \ntwo sites will delay the process considerably. Without the \ninter-site competition, the columnist (sorry, I can't remember his name) \nbelieves that Minnesota would have a team by the 1994-95 season. Also, \nbecause of the situation with the Timberwolves, things will be delayed \nuntil (unless) the city of Minneapolis takes over the Target Center. \nHowever, they are unlikely to do so until the Met Center is destroyed, \nbecause the city will lose money if there is competition from the Met for \nconventions and short-term events (even with hockey at Target). To add to \nthis mess, a STUDY (6 to 12 months) is going to be conducted on the future \nviability of the Met Center, which obviously delays the process even \nfurther. I hope that the study is cancelled, which will have the effect of \nknocking the Met Center out of the running and perhaps encouraging \nMinneapolis to take over the Target Center sooner. The city would be\nbe even more encourged if the wrecking ball is taken to the Met, \nwhich may happen.\n\tRegarding possible candidates, the three teams are \nHartford, Tampa Bay, and New Jersey. I would prefer the Devils (Minnesota \"\nIce Demons?\") although the Lightning may have potential. Although it hasn't \nbeen announced yet, it looks like 6 neutral site games will be played at the \nTarget Center next year. Apparently the Devils are interested in playing in \nas many of those six games as possible, and I wouldn't be surprised to see \nHartford and Tampa show up there either.\tSo, Minnesota may end up \ngetting another team, but it may take a few years.\n\n\t\n\tGo Sabres!", "As of today, April 17, Jack Morris has lost his first three starts.\n\nHowever, the Jays are doing well without him and injured Dave Stuart.\n\nThis is a credit to the rest of the pitching staff.", "\nAbout as good as Mussina's. better than Sutcliffe's and McDonald's\n\nHe's in the bullpen. Steinbrenner is in charge after all.\n\n\nHe's got the talent to be the 4th starter now, and evetually the ace.\nHe was a higher ranked (and generally better) prospect than Arthur\nRhodes who happens to be, well hey, the Oriole's 4th starter.\n\n\nAs for Militello, it's still early.", "\n\nA little supplement Basic Mike's info :\n\nFor Sundday's opener on ABC, these are the announcing crews :\n\nDevils/Isles at Pittsburgh - Gary Thorne(play-by-play),Bill Clement(color)\nand Al Morganti roaming the halls outside the dressing rooms.\nThis telecast will primarily seen on the East Coast.\n\nSt.Louis at Chicago - Mike Emrick(play - by play),Jim Schoendfeld(color)\nand Tom Mees roaming the halls.\nThis telecast will primarily be seen in the Midwest and parts of the South.\n\nLA at Calgary - Al \"Do You Believe in Mircales?\" Michaels(play by play),\nJohn Davidson(color) and Mark Jones as a roaming reporter.\nThis telecast will be seen in the Western USA.\n\nMontreal's naitive,Jon Saunders will be hosting in the studio.\n\nABC will do \"Up and Close and Personal\" with Mario during Saturday's\nWide World of Sports(4:30EDT).\n\nSunday will be the first NHL playoff or regular network telecast in 13 years...\nnot counting those silly All-Star games on NBC for the last few years...\n\nFor Sunday's games,ABC will use 8 mikes(2 behind on the goal),super-super-slo-mo,\nclose-ups of player's faces at face-offs. ESPN/ABC will not be able to\nuse its new favorite toy,the ice-level shot, in Pittsburgh where too many\nseats would have to removed to employ it...\n\n\nIn case of a blowout in progress in Pittsburgh,ABC will switch to Chicago\ngame but will come back to the Pittsburgh game for updates or if the game\ngets closer(Ha!)..\n\nABC expects huge ratings(by hockey standards) since all 3 Top US TV-markets\nare involved - NY metro area(NY Islanders/NJ Devils),Chicago(BlackHawks),\nand LA(Kings).\n\nStay tuned,\n\nThanks Mike,", ": >Showing a meaningless (relatively) baseball game over the overtime of\n: >game that was tied up with less than 3 seconds left on the clock?", "Overall (career)\n1.\tDon Mattingly\n2.\tDon Mattingly\n3.\tDon Mattingly\n4.\tDon Mattingly\n5.\tDon Mattingly\n6.\tDon Mattingly\n7.\tDon Mattingly\n8.\tDon Mattingly\n9.\tDon Mattingly\n10.\tDon Mattingly\n11.\tDon Mattingly\n.\n.\n.\n.\n.\n.\n.\n.\n50.\tDon Mattingly\n", "\n\nAre there any further stories to report on the eve' of Norm's farewell \nfrom the twin cities? In an earlier post, it was announced that Norm \nGreen was given until midnight of the last home-game of the North Stars\nto cleanup his belongings and turn in the keys to the arena. \nDid this happen? Was Norm run-out-of-town?\n\nRumor has it that while he was attempting to remove the score board, \nthe score-board fell to the ice and flattened Mr. Greedy to a large\npiece of green paper. Arena management had to use the Zamboni (which \nthey confiscated from Norm's truck) to clean-up the useless remains. ", "\nBowman is in the Hockey Hall of Fame as a coach already...and unlike\nGil Stein...he didn't get their by stacking the Board of Directors! -)\n\n\nBowman is the genius...Johnson isn't. Bowman is a great coach...Johnson,\na very good one. However, Bowman is really not a modern coach, and\nPatrick's solution of having him only run the team on game days, and\ndelegate most of the day-to-day responsibity to the assistants is\na shrewd managerial decision on Patrick's part. ", "Hooray, I hear on TSN that the Jets have won a game, Selanne\ngetting a hat-trick!\n\nOf course, here in GOD'S COUNTRY (read Ontario!) I couldn't\nsee that game, nor any other in the VAN-WPG series so far,\nbecause our beloved CBC figures no one out here cares about\nthis series (which has looked pretty competitve so far...\n\nOn Monday and Wednesday nights, CBC could have shown the Toronto-\nDetroit game, done the news, then picked up Winnipeg-Vancouver.\nThey didn't. Tonight? You guessed it, Toronto-Detroit, the\nnews (not the end of the Jets game), then Calgary-LA.\n\nSO, if it's \"Hockey Night in Canada\", why can't this Ontarian see\none of the two series with two Canadian teams? Is this too much to\nask?", "You can add Steve Rosenberg, one-time White Sox reliever now in the Mets\nsystem, to the list.", "Heard minutes ago on KOA radio, Denver.\n\nNolan Ryan to have arthroscopic on a knee, and\nto miss 2 - 5 weeks.\n\nRockies (Nied) lead Mets (Gooden) 4 - 0 in 7th.\nAll runs in first inning.", "Doug, those stats are great! they help immensely. I tried to E-Mail\nyou with some comments on them but my mail server does not recognize\nyour address. Could you E-Mail me with some info on how to get E-Mail\nto you? Thanks!", "\n What the hell are U talking about? ESPN showed Pens/Devils game as advertised.\n BUt the morons at ESPN should know that Pens will kick Devils ass and the\n game will be boring. I'd rather see Boston/Buffalo game which seems to be\n an exciting series since noone had expected Buffalo to get past the first\n round. \n\n Well let's hope they change their mind on THU's game and show some other\n game. The Pens series is really getting boring. I want to see some \n exciting game no matter who wins. If NHL wants a major network contract\n then they better put some brains in ESPN people.\n\n \n\n", "I would appreciate it if someone could volunteer to verify the shots on goal\nand save percentage numbers for me, so I can put these stats on the archive\nsite. Contact me by mail if you want to volunteer.\n\nHere are the individual goalie stats as of: Wed Apr 21 09:09:38 CST 1993\n\nThese stats include games up to and including the Sunday previous to the date\nlisted above. They have been verified against what is printed in my newspaper\nevery Tuesday. They don't print shots and save percentage numbers, so those\nare not verified. These stats are available by mail every weekday and\nsometimes on weekends, if I'm in town and I can get late game results. Just\nsend me a note if you would like to receive these stats by mail.\n\nIf you have any questions, comments or suggestions, let me know.\n\nRandy\n\n-------\nMP = Minutes Played, GA = Goals against,\nSO = Shutouts, GAA = Goals against average\nW = Wins, L = Losses, T = Ties\nSOG = Shots on Goal, SV = Save Percentage\n\n MP GA SO GAA W L T SOG SV TM Player\n=======================================================\n 1 0 0 0.00 0 0 0 0 1.000 WAS Byron Dafoe\n 11 0 0 0.00 0 0 0 3 1.000 HAR Corrie D'Alessio\n 40 1 0 1.50 0 0 0 19 0.947 MTL Frederick Chabot\n 25 1 0 2.40 0 0 0 10 0.900 BOS Mike Bales\n2781 116 2 2.50 25 15 7 1287 0.910 TOR Felix Potvin\n4106 177 7 2.59 41 18 11 1879 0.906 CHI Ed Belfour\n1322 64 1 2.90 9 8 4 596 0.893 BOS John Blue\n 996 49 2 2.95 6 7 1 414 0.882 CHI Jim Waite\n3702 186 4 3.01 43 14 5 1889 0.902 PIT Tom Barrasso\n3890 196 1 3.02 29 28 9 2194 0.911 STL Curtis Joseph\n1817 94 1 3.10 18 8 4 858 0.890 VAN Kay Whitmore\n1429 75 0 3.15 11 10 4 716 0.895 BUF Dominik Hasek\n3194 168 3 3.16 37 14 3 1354 0.876 BOS Andy Moog\n1311 70 1 3.20 14 4 1 629 0.889 CAL Jeff Reese\n3595 192 2 3.20 31 25 5 1813 0.894 MTL Patrick Roy\n 168 9 0 3.21 1 1 1 87 0.897 HAR Mike Lenarduzzi\n1193 64 0 3.22 13 4 2 522 0.877 DET Vincent Riendeau\n1785 96 2 3.23 17 7 4 938 0.898 TOR Daren Puppa\n3880 210 4 3.25 34 24 7 1898 0.889 DET Tim Cheveldae\n3732 203 2 3.26 29 26 9 1805 0.888 CAL Mike Vernon\n2655 146 1 3.30 22 20 2 1314 0.889 NYI Glenn Healy\n3359 185 1 3.30 24 24 6 1726 0.893 BUF Grant Fuhr\n2757 152 4 3.31 20 18 7 1519 0.900 NYR John Vanbiesbrouck\n3282 181 1 3.31 27 23 5 1531 0.882 WAS Don Beaupre\n3476 193 3 3.33 26 26 5 1683 0.885 MIN Jon Casey\n3261 184 3 3.39 28 21 5 1620 0.886 VAN Kirk McLean\n2672 151 2 3.39 19 21 3 1322 0.886 NJ Chris Terreri\n1433 81 1 3.39 17 5 1 686 0.882 MTL Andre Racicot\n1939 110 0 3.40 18 9 4 947 0.884 QUE Stephane Fiset\n2512 143 5 3.42 20 17 6 1329 0.892 PHI Tommy Soderstrom\n1368 78 0 3.42 13 7 2 691 0.887 PIT Ken Wregget\n 542 31 0 3.43 5 4 0 225 0.862 BOS Reggie Lemelin\n2988 172 0 3.45 29 16 5 1525 0.887 QUE Ron Hextall\n2253 130 0 3.46 17 15 5 1067 0.878 NYI Mark Fitzpatrick\n3855 227 2 3.53 33 26 6 2119 0.893 WIN Bob Essensa\n1601 96 0 3.60 15 10 2 777 0.876 WIN Jim Hrivnak\n1596 97 1 3.65 10 12 5 803 0.879 MIN Darcy Wakaluk\n1591 97 0 3.66 7 19 2 757 0.872 TB Wendell Young\n1163 71 0 3.66 8 10 1 573 0.876 TB JC Bergeron\n2389 146 2 3.67 21 16 4 1180 0.876 NJ Craig Billington\n1210 74 1 3.67 8 8 2 628 0.882 STL Guy Hebert\n1302 80 2 3.69 8 12 0 664 0.880 WAS Rick Tabaracci\n 664 41 0 3.70 5 6 0 344 0.881 BUF Tom Draper\n 224 14 0 3.75 1 2 1 116 0.879 NYR Corey Hirsch\n1769 111 1 3.76 13 11 5 932 0.881 PHI Dominic Roussel\n2105 134 1 3.82 13 19 3 1184 0.887 NYR Mike Richter\n 157 10 0 3.82 1 2 0 78 0.872 NYI Danny Lorenz\n3753 240 1 3.84 17 38 6 2069 0.884 EDM Bill Ranford\n1735 111 0 3.84 15 8 4 987 0.888 LA Robb Stauber\n2718 175 2 3.86 18 21 6 1545 0.887 LA Kelly Hrudey\n 154 10 0 3.90 0 2 1 66 0.848 QUE Jacques Cloutier\n 867 57 0 3.94 5 9 1 499 0.886 HAR Mario Gosselin\n 532 35 0 3.95 6 4 0 294 0.881 LA Rick Knickle\n2268 150 1 3.97 8 24 4 1197 0.875 TB Pat Jablonski\n2074 142 1 4.11 7 26 0 1250 0.886 SJ Arturs Irbe\n2656 184 0 4.16 16 27 3 1470 0.875 HAR Sean Burke\n1338 93 0 4.17 9 12 2 763 0.878 EDM Ron Tugnutt\n1326 95 0 4.30 2 17 1 743 0.872 OTT Daniel Berthiaume\n 802 59 0 4.41 3 9 0 405 0.854 PHI Stephane Beauregard\n3388 250 0 4.43 8 46 3 1711 0.854 OTT Peter Sidorkiewicz\n 65 5 0 4.62 0 0 1 39 0.872 CAL Andrei Trefilov\n1373 111 0 4.85 4 15 1 784 0.858 HAR Frank Pietrangelo\n 73 6 0 4.93 0 0 1 34 0.824 WIN Mike O'Neill\n 60 5 0 5.00 0 1 0 46 0.891 SJ Wade Flaherty\n2000 176 0 5.28 2 30 1 1220 0.856 SJ Jeff Hackett\n 930 86 0 5.55 2 14 1 559 0.846 SJ Brian Hayward\n 160 15 0 5.63 0 3 0 91 0.835 TOR Rick Wamsley\n 20 2 0 6.00 0 0 0 7 0.714 WAS Olaf Kolzig\n 90 10 0 6.67 0 2 0 44 0.773 OTT Darrin Madeley\n 249 30 0 7.23 0 5 0 146 0.795 OTT Steve Weeks\n 98 13 0 7.96 0 2 0 51 0.745 LA David Goverde\n 45 7 0 9.33 0 1 0 21 0.667 TB David Littman\n", "AIRLINE TICKET \n\n ATA TO CINCINNATI\n\nI have a friend who has one ticket from ATLANTA to CIN, OH. It is one seat\nin economy class on Delta. The ticket is the return half of a round trip.\nIt is currently in a woman's name. She does not need to fly back. Need to\nsell the ticket. Flyer would go standby because ticket is dated. Asking $90.\n\nI am posting this for my friend. Please do not email responses to me.\nInstead contact Rick at 513-271-4169.", "\nmorgan and guzman will have era's 1 run higher than last year, and\n the cubs will be idiots and not pitch harkey as much as hibbard.\n castillo won't be good (i think he's a stud pitcher)", "\nMy votes (FWIW):\n\nTeam MVP: Pat Verbeek. He fans on 25% of goal mouth feeds, but he still has \n36 goals after a terrible start and has been an examplary (sp?) team captain\nthroughout a tough couple of seasons. Honorable mention: Nick Kypreos and\nMark Janssens. Probably more appropriate in the unsung heroes category than\nMVP, but Kypreos (17 goals, 320+ PIM) has been the hardest working player on\nthe team and Janssens is underrated as a defensive center and checker. I guess\nI place a greater emphasis on hard work than skill when determining value.\n\nBiggest surprise: Geoff Sanderson. He had 13 goals and 31 points last season\nas a center, then moved to left wing and has so far put up 45 goals and 80+\npoints. He now has a new Whaler record 21 power play goals, most all coming\nfrom the right wing faceoff circle, his garden spot. Honorable mention: Andrew\nCassels and Terry Yake. The kiddie quartet of Sanderson, Poulin, Nylander, and\nPetrovicky have been attracting the most attention, but Cassels is just 23\nand will score close to 90 points this season. He has quite nicely assumed the\nrole of number one center on the team and works very well with Sanderson. Yake\nbounced around the minors for a number of seasons but is still 24 and will put\nup about 20 goals and 50 points this season. Yake, like Sanderson, started\nperforming better offensively once he was converted from center to wing, \nalthough lefty Sanderson went to the left wing and righty Yake went to the\nright side.\n\nBiggest disappointment: Hands down, John Cullen. Cullen had a disasterous 77\npoint season last year, his first full season after The Trade. Cullen started\nthe season off of summer back surgery, and fell flat on his face (appropriate,\nsince he spent all of his Whaler career flat on his ass, and whining about it).\nCullen scored just 9 point on 19 games, was a clubhouse malcontent, commanded\nthe powerplay to a 9% success percentage (>21% with Sanderson), and sulked his\nway out of town. Worst of all, his 4 year, $4M contract had three years left\nto run, so no one would give up any more than the 2nd round draft pick the \nMaple Leafs offered to Hartford. Honorable mention: Steve Konroyd, also subpar\nafter signing a 3 year, $2.1M contract; Eric Weinrich, who showed flashes of\ncompetence, but overall has played poorly; Jim McKenzie, who was a much better\nhockey player two seasons ago than he is now; and Frank Pietrangelo, who only\nseemed to play well when Sean Burke was out for an extended period and he got\nto make a number of starts in a row.", "\n\n\nThe Hart Trophy was orginally awarded in a time where people did not think\nin terms of who was the \"best\" player, rather in terms of who was the most\nvaluable to the team. And \"valuable to his team\" was not, and should not\nbe, considered synonymous with \"best\". We are talking about a time when\nhonour and attitude, not measurable skills, were the most important assets\na player brought to his team, his league and his sport. This was before\nthe onslaught of professionalism which has clearly denigrated what was \nformerly the foremost peacetime pursuit of glory.\n\nThe Hart Trophy is not a prize. It is an honour.\n\n\n-- ", "I have noticed that this year has had a lot of high scoring games (at least the\nNL has). I believe one reason are the expansion teams. Any thoughts?", "\nFrancis got 101 in 89-90, his last full season with Hartford.", "\nNever was? Probably. Is not now? Debatable. What other valid test can\nyou think of besides the final standings or divisional playoff winner? What\ndo you propose, a worthless vote like they do in college football? What a\njoke!\n\n\nIf I remember right, Brad Park was also involved in that trade. He wasn't\nall that bad a hockey player.\n\nBut let's look at some of Sinden's trades over the years:\n\n??? for Rick Middleton (Rangers). I don't know who Sinden gave up for Middle-\nton, so I'll call this one a +.\n\nBarry Pederson for Cam Neely (Canucks). +++. Any questions?\n\nGreg Hawgood for Vladimir Ruzicka (Oilers). ++. Didja see that one Rosie\nroofed against Roy in last year's playoffs?\n\nCourtnall/Ranford for Andy Moog (Oilers). A wash. Moog is a good goaltender,\nRanford burned Boston in the Finals in his first year, and Courtnall always\nseems to get his points. Anyone in Vancouver care to comment on Courtnall\nas a defensive liability?\n\nKen Linseman for Dave Poulin (Flyers) ++. Any more questions?\n\nJanney/Quintal for Adam Oates (Blues). ++. Janney is an enormous talent and\na personable guy, the the Bruins play in Adam's Division. Enough said?\n\nSo,even if you count the Esposito/Vadnais/Ratelle/Park/I don't remember who \nelse (Joe Zanussi?) trade as a double minus, Harry the Horse trader comes\nout on top. I submit that the Bruins are always good because of Harry, not\nin spite of him.\n\nBTW, do you really think the Habs will bounce back next season. I'll bet \nthey finish fourth or fifth in the Conference, behind any of the following:\nPittsburgh, Quebec, Boston, Washington, Islanders. Someone correct me if\nthese five teams will not be in Montreal's conference.\n\nIn summary, things look bleak for the Habs, at least in the near future. I\nsuspect that the next team from La Belle Province to win the Cup will be\nthat team that Lindros didn't want to play for.\n\n\n-- \nDan Lyddy daniell@cory.berkeley.edu University of California at Berkeley", "\nWhat say you and Nick go somewhere else with this shool yard crap.", "\n2) Hitting....Hawks tried to outmuscle Blues but could not do it.\nInstead, Blues matched Hawks hit for hit and crunched the shit out of\nthem in game #4.....Scud line, Shanahan, Butcher, and Zombo particularly\ntook turns bashing favorite targets like Chelios.\n\n3) Skating.....when the Hawks tried to outskate Blues, they could not do\nthat either. Nelson Emerson finally showed up and skated circles around\nflat footed Chicago defense.....Hedican, Felsner, Ron Wilson and others\nalso proved that with old cement skaters like Goulet and Keith Brown,\nBlues could lap Chicago in a 400 M relay race.\n\n\n I agree with #2 but you are wrong about #3. In fact, the only\n point where the Hawks in any way matched the Blues was when\n they quit trying to outmuscle and instead tried to outskate\n the Blues. They scored and took the lead. Too bad it was\n Game 4 and they then took some stupid penalties. When the\n Hawks skated, they outskated the Blues and took control.\n\n", "........\n\nIt looks like the Edmonton Oilers just decided to take a European\nvacation this spring...\n\nRanford, Tugnutt, Benning, Manson, Smith, Buchberger, and Corson\nare playing for Canada.\n\nPodein and Weight are playing for the US.\n\nIs Kravchuk playing for the Russians...I know he had nagging\ninjuries late in the season.\n\nPodein is an interesting case...because he was eligible to\nplay in Cape Breton in the AHL playoffs like Kovalev, Zubov,\nand Andersson...obviously Sather and Pocklington are not\nthe total scrooges everyone makes them out to be...certainly\nin this case they've massively outclassed Paramount and the\nNew York Rangers.", "\n\n\n\n Well, in my opinion the Canucks played a really strong game. I was\nespecially pleased by a very strong game from Linden - I think he\ncould be a key to success for them this year. Defensively, they\nreally had a strong game. Hardly heard Selanne's name all night.\nCraven also played one of his best games since coming over. With a\nfew exceptions, they really didn't let the high-flying Jets do much\nhigh-flying. I thought the Jets defence looked overmatched by the\nCanucks forwards - they will have to improve on that if they want to\nmake this a series.\n\n In short, it was a great start!\n", "\nFirst of all, the Penguins WILL win the cup again. Who is going to stop them?\nDefinitely not the Canucks! \n\nMy predictions:\n\nPatrick Division winner: Pittsburgh\nAdams Division winner: Quebec or Montreal\nNorris Division winner: Detroit\nSmythe Division winner: Winnipeg\n\nWales conference champ: Pittsburgh\nCampbell Conference champ: Detroit\n\nStanley Cup Champions(again): Pittsburgh\n\nCanucks suck. They'll lose in the first round, compliments of Winnipeg\nand Teemu Selanne. ", " \n \n \n \n Hey, we could start a new game on the net. It's called 'Where's Roger?'\nIt's similiar to 'Where's Waldo?' but instead of finding Waldo in a picture\nof people, we try to find Roger in a newsgroup on the net.\n I predict that he'll be in r.s.basketball.pro next.\n \n ", "\n\nI hope this makes you feel better, but the overtime between the Isles and\nthe Caps was GREAT!!! \n", "\n\n\n\nThe top 11 teams of this tournament will play in the Olympics next year.\nThe last team of this tournament, top two of pool B (Great Britain and \nPoland) and the winner of pool C (Latvia) will play for the last Olympic \nspot next fall.\n However, if next year's hosts Norway were to finish 12th (which would be \nno surprise), then it's the 11th team of pool A that will have to play in \nthe qualification tournament. ", "Hi there again...\nI still have a few tapes left...\n\nAs before they are $2.50 each (postage paid, 1st class).\nMultiple orders appreciated, but not necessary...\nPackage deals welcome...\n\nThanks...\nChris Bray\n\nLewis, Huey|Sports\n\tContains \"Heart of Rock and Roll\", \"Heart and Soul\", \"Want a New\n\tDrug\", \"Walking on a Thin Line\", \"If This is It\", and more!!!\n\nHooters: Nervous Night\n\tContains: And We Danced, Day By Day, All You Zombies, Nervous Night...\n\nPoison|Look What the Cat Dragged In\n\tTheir 1st tape. Contains \"Cry Tough\", \"I Wont Forget You\", \n\t\"Talk Dirty to Me\", and more!\n\nHall & Oates|Big Bam Boom\n\tContains: \"Out of Touch\", \"Possession Obsession\", and more!\n\nRatt|Out of the Cellar\n\tContains: Wanted Man, Round and Round, and more!\n\nQuiet Riot|Condition Critical\n\tContains: Mama Weer All Krazy Now\nOutfield|Play Deep\n\tContains: Say It Isn't So, Your Love, All the Love in the World,\n\tand more!\n\nPlant, Robert|Shaken n' Stirred\n\tContains: Little By Little, plus more...\n\nJourney|Raised on Radio\n\tContains: Girl Cant Help It, Suzanne, Be Good to Yourself, Ill Be\n\tAlright Without You, Why Cant This Night Go On Forever...\n\nDuran Duran|Arena\n\tContains: Is There Something I Should Know?, Hungry Like the Wolf,\n\tNew Religon, Wild Boys, Planet Earth, and more!\n\nMonkees|Then and Now - The Best of the Monkees\n\tContains: All their big hits plus some...\n\nINXS|Kick\n\tContains: Mediate, New Sensation, Devil Inside, Need You Tonight,\n\tNever Tear Us Apart, Mystify, and more! GREAT TAPE....\n\n", "Subject sez it...\n\nWondering if either team are in town that weekend (5-30/5-31).\n\nI can probably get Phillies tix, as the Vet can hold a bunch (and\nI hope they're still in 1st but it's late may, and...). Camden\nYards is a problem - is there any way of getting in the park w/o an SRO\nticket? Any advice if there at home?\n\nJoe Leonard\njle@world.std.com", "\nThere are very few disciplines where 100% certainty is necessary to\nstate something as fact. Baseball is not one of them.\n\nTherefore I can say that I know Clemens was better than Morris last\nyear, and Larkin was better than Griffin. No, I can't ascertain this.\nI can't prove it. But I'm not required to do so.\n\nAnd since you obviously feel that such threads are meaningless,\nwhy don't you simply stay out of them?", ": I believe that Rusty Staub was also a jewish ball-player\n: Also, Mordaci Brown back in the early 20th century. He was a pitcher whose\n: nickname was \"3 fingers\" Brown....for obvious reasons....he had 3 fingers.\n\n0 for 2, ma_ind25.\n\nDaniel Patrick Staub is a Catholic school kid from Nawlins, Mordecai\nBrown a farm kid (probably Protestant) from somewhere in the Midwest.\nHe lost those fingers in a farm machinery accident.\n\nJim Palmer isn't Jewish himself, but Mr. Jockey Shorts's adoptive \nparents are.\n\nAlso, I'm not absolutely certain that Carew actually converted. His\nwife and children certainly are Jewish.\n\n--", "\nMLB is perfectly willing to take players from Cuba. They just have to\ndefect first. \n\nSort of like the situation used to be with Russian/Czech/etc hockey\nplayers, until the political situation in those countries changed.", "\nAs the heading indicates, it is impossible for me to fathom why Barry is not\nbatting 4th for the Giants behind Will Clark. Barry is such an awesome and\nconsistent hitter -- definitely the best in the National League. IMHO, to \nhave Williams, a streaky hitter (and not really a clutch hitter) batting\n4th ahead of Bonds is simply an injustice to the Giants and fans of the\nGiants.\n", "\nOk, but have you seen Tabaracci play yet? In his two starts and\nhis relief effort for Beaupre, he has looked mighty sharp - don't\nforget the shutout. I think he's let in just four goals over eight\nperiods of play. I like Hrivnak, but we might actually have to give\nsome credit to David Poile for a change after this trade.\n\nHopefully if Tabaracci starts against the Isles tonight, I haven't\njinxed him.", "Is anyone familiar with Doug Sturm?", "\nYes, a point well-taken ... however, even in areas that finally got\nsome games, there's something nagging in the back of your skull when\nthe network that has the national rights in its pocket says on its\nsports news, \"There's an awesome overtime going on in Quebec City,\nand we'll *try* to get you an update through the show ...\" when you\nknow that it's on a satellite's feedhorn somewhere up there ...\n\n\nFrom today's Times, ABC got great ratings in Chicago and St. Louis (a\n4.2), and the Kings-Flames got a 2.9 on the West Coast, but only a 2.2\nin metro New York (i.e., the Devils squandered their newfound support\nfrom a year ago when they played the Rangers )-;). In comparison,\nSeniors Golf did better ...\n\n\nI fear that the overall national numbers will not be so great ...\nI can't tell if ABC did any advance marketing or not, 'cos I don't\nwatch much TV ... the NHL should have made sure that it was solid\non cable before going on the air. Even ESPN could've sold second\nrights to third party systems (i.e., non-SportsChannel) since they\nare not making any extra money by sitting on the games ... hockey\nfans will not necessarily be watching pre-season beach volleyball\nif playoffs games aren't being shown somewhere ...\n\ngld", "\nWhat?! White, yes. Well off, definitely not. Hockey season ticket owners have\nthe lowest average income of any of the four major North American sports.\n\nAnd think of where the majority of hockey players come from. From a farm out\nin Boondock, Saskatchewan or Weedville, Alberta.\n\n\nThe inner city isn't the only place that is poor.\nI think the biggest barrier to hockey in the inner city is... no ICE to play on.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t Stace\n", "Disaster! Finland was beaten by Czech 1-3 (0-0,1-1,0-2).\nFinland will be 4th of pool B and will most certainly meet Canada in the\nquarter final on wednesday 28th. Lack of scoring skills has\nbeen the major problem of team Finland throughout the tournament.\nBriza (goalie) was the MVP of the Czech team and Tikkanen was the \nMVP of the Finnish team. ", "\nGood point. Not only baseball but local NBA basketball games took\nprecedence over any SCA's NHL playoff coverage.", "Well, after suffering from an intense fit of Minnesota-induced cabin fever,\nI've decided to road trip to Milwaukee and take in a couple of games this\nweekend. A couple games at County stadium will be great to relieve tension, \nbut I thought \"Why not go to Wrigley for a game too?\" \n\n I see the Cubs are playing the Phillies on Sat (2:05 start, I believe\nthat's Eastern time listed). I figured it would be fun to bounce down to\nWrigley for the day game and live it up a little. I'm wondering if anyone\n(esp. Cubbie fans) have some advice on: \n\n 1) If I'm taking 41 (Skokie Hwy) south until it runs into 94, what's the \n best way to get to Wrigley? I'm planning on getting there an hour or \n two early and paying through the nose for parking to keep things easy. \n\n 2) Is it probable that I'll be able to walk up and get bleacher seats (2 or\n 3) on game day? I figure since it's early in the year, Ryno's out and \n the weather isn't great I should be able to get tickets. If not, what's \n the best way to get advance tickets; can I call the Cubs' ticket office\n directly and pick up tickets at the will call window? \n\n 3) Any advice on where to eat before or after the game? \n\n 4) Do they allow inflatable I-luv-ewe dolls (present from Lundy) into the \n bleachers? :-) \n ", "\n\n\n\nI AM an Ulf (and Pgh) fan, and what pisses me off about the whole Adam Graves/\nUlf Samuesson debate is that Ulf plays hard-hitting hockey (nothing wrong with \nthat) while Graves does what he does when the only way to win a game is to \nintentionally hurt someone (which bites!).\n\n\nI thought they had instituted all kinds of new rules this season to stop crap \nlike that?!? Is it just me, or does the officiating just still stink to high\nheaven? IMHO, if they could get rid of the existing refs, and institute a new\nsystem with more than one ref on the ice to keep an eye on the trouble-makers\nthen a lot of these things would stop, and then the game would be ruled by the\nfinnesse players: Mario, Selanne, Bure, Messier, et.al...\n\n\n", "\n: Bowman is the genius...Johnson isn't. Bowman is a great coach...Johnson,\n: a very good one. However, Bowman is really not a modern coach, and\n: Patrick's solution of having him only run the team on game days, and\n: delegate most of the day-to-day responsibity to the assistants is\n: a shrewd managerial decision on Patrick's part. \n\nIMHO Bowman is the perfect coach for this group of players at \nthis time. Johnson was the perfect coach two years ago for his \ngroup of players. I would say we have been very lucky here in \nPittsburgh that the order these coaches came in was this one. \n(Excluding the unfortunate circumstances which brought about the \nchange.) With the immense talent on the Penguins roster this \nyear, a tougher Bowman keeps the egos in check. Johnson on the \nother hand, was able to inspire the younger, inexperienced players \nto new heights. Both coaches have / had different strengths. Both \nof which came at exactly the right time. \n\nAnother person also mentioned that Bowman is the perfect coach \nfor this time since nobody can argue with his decisions. How can \nyou argue with the coach with the best record in hockey anyway? \nPlaying for a great coach like that demands respect which also \nkeeps the egos in check. \n\nJust a couple of ideas.\n", "\n \nHm, do you think Dusseldorf fans would like it if their team joined the NHL?\nOr do we have to include Koln as well (Cologne to you Anglophiles) to make \nthem happy?:-)\n ", "\nAwesome home record or not, you need to remember the 7th game last year at the\nAud. I'd like to see some playoff games since I'm stuck in Buffalo at UB, but\nI think Boston isn't giving up so easy.", "Nothing wrong with what Felix did. The only problem was that he didn't Dino \nhard enough. Next time Felix aim for the ankles!!!!!!!!!!", "On a cold, damp night last night at Tiger Stadium, Dave Wells, David Haas, Bob \nMacDonald, and Mike Henneman combined for a 3-1 victory over the Texas\nRangers. Here are the highlights:\n\n\n R H E\nTexas 1 4 1\nDetroit 3 5 0\n\nWells gets the win, he's now 3-0 with an ERA just under 1, and Henneman gets\nhis third save in three chances. Ken Rogers started for the Rangers and \ngets the loss. He was relieved by Burns in the 7th.\n\nThe Rangers got their only run on a solo home run by Dean Palmer in the 7th.\nThe Tigers opened the scoring with an RBI single by Fryman in the 3rd, then\ntook the lead for good in the bottom of the seventh when Whitaker greeted\nreliever Burns with an RBI double which scored Tettleton. Whitaker in turn\ncrossed the plate on an RBI single by Phillips (who has been red hot) for \nthe third Tiger run.\n\nThis afternoon, it's another battle of southpaws, Bill Krueger for the Tigers\nvs. Craig Lefferts for the Rangers.\n\n--Randy", "ESPN is pathetic, I have been watching everybody complain about ESPN's coverage\nand I agree with all of you. Might I suggest that we are getting all worked up\nover nothing. We ALL knew that ESPN's coverage was going to suck. I mean have\nyou ever watched during the regular season Sportscenter coverage of hockey? It\nsucks, I mean really sucks!!! ESPN does not know hockey if it shot them in the\nass. I was really pissed of about last night, coverage. I go to school in Ohio\nI *know* the Indians suck, so why show them? If I were Bill Clement I would\nshoot myself.\n\nAnyway after I calmed down after I realized that they were not going to show\novertime of the Caps Isles game I thought to myself I knew that this was going\nto happen, in fact I remerbed myself praying that at least they would keep even\nthe boring Devils game.\n\nOverall I think ESPN does not care if they show hockey or not and I firmly\nbelive that they have know respect for the fans. ie *because of contract \nobligations*, screw you ESPN.\n\nPraise be to all hockey fans who put up with this shit!\n\nGO HAWKS!!!", "\n\n\n\nWell, no. Although I admit that's more exciting than a rat killer.\n-- \nDale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Baseball fanatic", "\n\nOK, you guys stirred up my childhood memories, so I went and did\nsome research on the final month or so of the 1964 season. It turns\nout that my recollections were pretty darn accurate, at least as\nfar as the Phillies record goes. On September 1 1964 this was the\ntop of the N.L. standings:\n\n W L GB\nPhiladelphia 79 51 -\nCincinnati 74 57 5 1/2\nSt. Louis 72 59 7 1/2\nSan Francisco 73 60 7 1/2\n\nThis is a game-by-game description of the remainder of the Phillies'\nseason:\n\nDate Score Opponent Lead Pitcher (starting and winner/loser)\n9/1 4-3 Houston 5 1/2 Bunning (15-4)\n9/2 2-1 Houston 5 1/2 Short (15-7)\n9/3 0-6 Houston 5 1/2 Bennett (9-12)\n9/4 5-3 San Francisco 6 1/2 Mahaffey; Baldschun (6-5)\n9/5 ??Win San Francisco 6 1/2 Bunning (16-4)\n9/6 3-4 San Francisco 5 1/2 Short; Baldschun (6-6)\n9/7 5-1 Los Angeles Bennett (10-12)\n 1-3 Los Angeles 6 1/2 Wise (5-3)\n9/8 2-3 Los Angeles 6 Mahaffey (12-7)\n9/9 5-10/11 St. Louis 5 Bunning; Baldschun (6-7)\n (Cardinals take over 2nd place from Cincinnati)\n9/10 5-1 St. Louis 6 Short (16-7)\n9/11 1-0 San Francisco 6 Bennett (11-12)\n9/12 1-9 San Francisco 6 Mahaffey (12-8)\n (Giants move into a tie for 2nd with St. Louis)\n9/13 4-1/10 San Francisco 6 Bunning (17-4)\n (Cardinals back in sole possesion of 2nd place)\n9/14 4-1 Houston 6 1/2 Short (17-7)\n9/15 1-0 Houston 6 Bennett (12-12)\n9/16 5-6 Houston 6 Bunning (17-5)\n9/17 4-3 Los Angeles 6 1/2 Wise; Schantz (2-4)\n9/18 3-4 Los Angeles 6 Short; Baldschun (6-8)\n9/19 3-4/16 Los Angeles 5 1/2 Bennett; Baldschun (6-9)\n9/20 3-2 Los Angeles 6 1/2 Bunning (18-5)\n (Reds move back into tie for 2nd with Cardinals)\n\nWell so far so good for the Phillies. But now it all falls apart ...\n\n9/21 0-1 Cincinnati 5 1/2 Mahaffey (12-9)\n (Reds take sole possesion of 2nd place)\n9/22 2-9 Cincinnati 4 1/2 Short (17-8)\n9/23 4-6 Cincinnati 3 1/2 Bennett (12-13)\n9/24 3-5 Milwaukee 3 Bunning (18-6)\n9/25 5-7/12 Milwaukee 1 1/2 Short; Boozer (3-4)\n (Cards now 2 1/2 back in 3rd, Giants 3 1/2 in 4th)\n9/26 4-6 Milwaukee 1/2 Mahaffey; Schantz (2-5)\n9/27 8-14 Milwaukee -1 Bunning (18-7)\n (Phils lose 7 1/2 games in 7 days; Reds take over 1st,\n Cardinals 1 1/2 back in 3rd)\n9/28 1-5 St. Louis -1 1/2 Short(17-9)\n (Cardinals take over 2nd place, Phils drop to 3rd)\n9/29 2-4 St. Louis -1 1/2 Bennett (12-14)\n (Reds and Cardinals now tied for 1st)\n9/30 5-8 St. Louis -2 1/2 Bunning (18-8)\n (Cardinals take 1/2 game lead over Reds)\n10/1 4-3 Cincinnati -1 1/2 Short; Roebuck (5-3)\n (Phillies halt 10-game losing streak; Cards lead Reds by 1/2 game)\n10/2 Did not play; Cards lose to Mets, Reds tied for 1st, Phils 1 game back\n10/3 10-0 Cincinnati -1 Bunning (19-8)\n (Cards beat Mets, take first by 1 from Reds and Phillies)\n\nWhew! what a finish! And the final standings were:\n\n W L GB\nSt. Louis 93 69 -\nPhiladelphia 92 70 1\nCincinnati 92 70 1\nSan Francisco 90 72 3\n\nNow it doesn't appear to me that Phillies pitchers Bunning and Short\nwere really overused, at least by the four-man rotation standard of\nthe day, until well along into the 10-game losing streak, at which\ntime Mauch was probably desperate for a win at any cost because the\nPhillies substantial lead had evaporated. The way they were used at\nthat time may have made the problem worse, although Bunning had one\nof his sharpest games of the year in the final day 10-0 shutout of\nthe Reds that cost the Reds a share of the pennant. Bunning pitched\na complete game six-hitter, striking out five and walking one. It\nwould be inetersting to see, though, how the total innings for the\nyear for Bunning and Short stacks up against the rest of the league.\nAlso notice that the Phillies played every day from at least September 1\nthrough October 1; while they didn't play substantially more games than\nthe other teams, the other teams each had a couple days off during that\nstretch.\n", "\nM --> \nM --> Look for the Leafs, led by a healthy Doug Gilmour and a confidence-restored\nM --> Felix Potvin to do the Blues in 6. The Leafs will have 3 more games with the\nM --> Wings and that should give Joseph a few extra days to pass those horshoes.\nM --> \n\nHA! Roger the dodger is back! (on the bandwagon, that is.)\n\n- Jack\n\n * Please Tell Me if you Don't Get This Message", "\nWell, Your Majesty, ;^), couldn't you just picture it? Cherry starts doing\nhis first post-game interview with Barrasso; Tommy gives him that little look\n(like somebody crapped on his shoe) and then proceeds to give Don a\ntonsilectomy with his Sher-Wood. Now that you could put on pay-per-view!\n\nHope you had a good laugh!", "What's the deal? c.s.h. has nothing on it yet. Is it in OT, is it over,\nwhat? I want to know! We all want to know! Where's Roger when you need\nhim?!?!?!?! :-)\n\n--\n Keith Keller\t\t\t\tLET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!\n\t\t\t\t\t\tLET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!\n\tkkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu\t\tIVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!", "\nI can understand your anger about the German audience. I mean, it was the\nFinnish team they played and they were taking advantage of the ridiculous\npenalties the Canadien ref called in the last period. The Germans got a\nmatch penalty and a 10 minutes misconduct for practically nothing and\nseconds after that the German goalie got two minutes for \"delay of game\"\nfor a shot that was deflected and went into the crowd. The resulting 5:3\nskating advantage lead to the deciding goal at a point, when the Germans\nwere starting to come up strong.\nI am also sick of the nationalism that is going on in German sports events.\nIf you watch for example a tennis Davis Cup match the players are often not\nable to play for minutes, because the crowd is so obnoxious. But I have to\nadmit that this kind of nationalism is as strong or even stronger in most\nother countries (you should go to the US and watch the way they present the\nOlympics on television; or the soccer crowds in England; or the Finnish\nspectators at nordic skiing events.....). I mean it makes me sick to see\nall this nationalism all over the world and I would rather see the best\nteam/player win and get cheared at. I do not mind if my favorite team\nlooses to somebody that is better or plays more attractive and I have to\nadmit that in most sports the German national site is not my favorite team\nto watch (the German soccer team is boring to watch, for example).\nBut, reading the above posting, I think that you are on the same level as\nthese crowds you are criticizing. It is easy to talk of (nearly all)\nGermans as Nazis and nationalists; thats the kind of propaganda that all\nultraconservative people use against Germany. It is true that there is a\ngreat danger of re-arising nationalism in Germany but from my experience\nmost of the people (at least of the people that i know) also regard this as\na big threat and are trying to demonstrate this attitude now. Why can't we\njust look at people as human beeings and not try to put them into drawers\ncorresponding to their nationality (eg. all Russians are Communists; all\nAmericans are Capitalists; all Germans are Nazis, all Fins are hanging\naround beeing drunk on ferries...). \nIn my opinion, your comment shows the narrowness of your mind and that you\ndon't seem to be different from the Nazis you are talking about.\n\nThomas\n", "Amazingly, pitchers, no matter how good their mechanics, are\nnot machines. Cy Young winners don't pitch in a vaccuum, unaware\nof how their offenses are doing.\n\n\tThe Braves' pitching staff is already showing signs of\ncracking under the strain of knowing they're not going to get many\n(if any) runs. Unfortunately, the Braves' pitchers were so bad for so\nlong that the organization put so much stress (and I mean *stress*)\non pitching that they completely ignored hitting.\n\n\tThe Braves right now are looking woefully similar to the Braves of\nthe mid-seventies. Heaven help us.\n ", "Does anybody else think that WS stats should become part of\na player's career stats? Why not?\n \n", "The media is beating the incident at Dodger Stadium on Wednesday to\ndeath, but I haven't seen anything in rsb yet.\n\nGerald Perry of the Cardinals pinch hit in the eighth inning with two\non and his club down by a run. He stroked a line drive into the\nright field corner. The ball cleared the three-foot high fence and\nwent into the crowd. Darryl, racing over from right center, got to\nthe spot in time to reach his glove up over the short fence, but he\nmissed the ball. A fan sitting in the front row, wearing a mitt,\nreached up and caught the ball. Home run.\n\nNow I've seen the replay several times and I have concluded that\nDarryl missed the ball, and that the fan's glove was essentially\nbehind Darryl's. Several Dodger fans with seats in the immediate\nvicinity have claimed that the fan unquestionably interfered with\nStrawberry. What cannot be disputed, however, is that the fan\nwho caught the ball never took his eye off it; he was oblivious\nto where the fielder was playing. He was also quite exuberant as\nsoon as he realized he had made the catch.\n\nThat exuberance disappeared immediately, however, when Strawberry\nwent into a tirade at the man. All reports indicate he used a lot\nof profanity and accused the man of interference, and therefore of\ncosting the Dodgers a game. Shortly afterwards other fans hurled\nfood and beverages toward the man who made the catch. Dodger Stadium\nofficials started to remove him from the park, but then relented and\njust relocated him to another area. In an interview after the game,\nLasorda blamed the fan for the loss. Strawberry also went into a\ntirade about how the fans are stupid and they don't care about \nwinning. L.A. Times columnists similarly blasted the man who made\nthe catch.\n\nBefore each Dodger game the public address announcer makes a speech\nwherein he says that fans are welcome to the souvenirs of balls that\nare hit into the stands as long as they do not interfere with any \nthat are in the field of play. Was the fan wrong? Should he have\nbeen more aware of the situation and acted to avoid any possibility\nof interference? Or was he human and just reacting? By the way, he\nis a season ticket holder and on his request the Dodgers have relocated\nhis seats to another area of the Stadium where future interference is\nimpossible.\n\nOthers have questioned why Darryl should be so concerned with what\nthe fan did when he has a grand total of 1 rbi through the first\nnine games.\n\nI question what he was doing in right center with a left-handed pull\nhitter up and the game on the line. Had he been closer to the play,\nhe certainly would have had a much better chance of catching the ball.\n\nBut I guess the big debate continues as to what are the responsibilities\nof the fan.\n\n\n\n--\tThe Beastmaster\n\n\n", "\n\nOK. I know I look pretty desperate on this bboard. I think I have posted\n3 or 4 messages already on the issue of NHL telecats over the last few weeks.\nBut, hey. I am pretty desperate. What I am interested is not just a\nsportsbar with multiple screens so thast I can watch the game on one\nof those silent screens. Are there any hockey oriented bars in this area.\nOr does some Patrick division or Adams division fan have a satellite dish?\nI don't mind paying an admission fee, if necessary.\n", "Went to the Dodgers game tonight -- it was cap night.\n \nAstacio pitched ok, but had control trouble all night.\nIn the first, he walked a batter, balked him to second, then\na single scored the run, with the batter taking second on the\nthrow home. Another single made the score 2-0 Cards.\n \nLasorda tried a new line up featuring Butler, Reed, And Piazza\nbatting third! Darryl and Eric were benched in favor of Snyder\nand Webster.\n \nPiazza homered in the first to make the score 2-1 Cards.\nThe Dodgers tied the game in the second on a two out single\nby Offerman.\n \nBy the fourth inning, Astacio had already made about 80 pitches, but\nthe score was still 2-2. The Dodger defense made SEVERAL impressive\nplays. Piazza looked GREAT behind the plate, gunning down a runner\ntrying to steal second, throwing a runner out at first who\nhad strayed a bit from first base, etc.\n \nKarros also made a spectacular play, keeping a ball from going into\nthe outfield. The runner on first was so sure that ball was going\nthrough, he just kept running past second. Karros got up and threw\nto third and EASILY got the runner at third.\n \nMy heart sank in the 7th when Gross got up to warm up in the bullpen.\n \nAstacio was lifted for a pinch hitter, and when Gross entered the game\nwith the score still 2-2, Dodger fans just KNEW it was over.\n \nGross was relieving because he stunk on Tuesday, pitching just 2 1/3\ninnings, forcing Lasorda to use much of his bullpen. The 15 inning\ngame had the same effect the next night...so only Gross was fresh\ngiven his light work out Tuesday.\n \nGross lived up to his name. He walked the first batter, gave up a hit\nto the second, and walked the bases loaded. After a grounder resulted\nin a force at home, Zeile lifted a scoring fly ball to make it\n3-2 Cards. Gross paid little attention to the runners, and the next\nthing you knew, the Cards had stolen a fourth run. The runner on\nfirst was eventually tagged out in the run down, but the 4th run had\nscored long before that.\n \nMeanwhile, the Dodgers mounted little offense after the second inning.\nLee Smith pitched the ninth. He had little trouble getting Karros\nand Wallach (does anyone have trouble with Wallach these days?).\nCory Snyder collected his first hit as a Dodger, a single, but\nthat was all the offense the Dodgers could mount. Smith got his\nthird straight save against the Dodgers and all I got was my\nfree Dodger cap and a good look at Piazza. If Piazza keeps this\nup all year, he will be a strong candidate for rookie of the year\nhonors. Though its really early, Karros is already showing signs\nof a sophomore jinx year.\n \nThe final score...Cardinals 4 runs on 7 hits.\nDodgers 2 runs on 7 hits.", "\n\n\n\nIt is indeed nice to have fans that are concerned about the dearth of\ndisputatious dissertation linked to my hiatus. Have simply been too\ndamned busy lately to keep you lads and lassies entertained. You can\nbe sure, however, that I will somehow manage to find time to woof if \nthe Leafs give just cause. \n\nAnd let's all try to keep people's names (especially mine) out of the\nsubject headers. I, for one, neither seek nor enjoy such a cheap form\nof notoriety.\n\nOne thing you can be assured of, however, is this: the Leafs are the\nbest of all the teams in the league that have allowed 12 goals in 2 \ngames.\n\n\n-- ", "\nI believe that Phil Esposito was the first to wear #77 when he played\nwith the Rangers in the '70s. This was the season that they put the\nRangers crest and \"modern-style\" numbers on the jerseys instead of the\n\"NEW YORK\" or \"RANGERS\" block letters and two-colour numbers. He took #77\nbecause the Rangers already had a #7.\n\n(Hockey Night in Canada made a big thing out of it, saying it was the\nbiggest uniform style change in a long time. This was before Pittsburgh\nand Vancouver changed their colours.)\n\n dwarf", "\n Yup. I agree with ya. I think Devils can beat Red Wings easily. SO I think\n all those who send in their votes should try all these diffrent teams\n before voting. I think Islanders and Quebec are much better then I had\n expected.\n\n COBRA\n\n", "Could someone post the Flyers record with and without Eric Lindros in\nthe lineup\n\n\nI have a guy that is trying to compare the Quebec/Flyers trade to the \n\nDallas/Minnesota trade in the NFL(Hershel Walker)\n\nI just need the stat to back up my point that Eric will be one of the next\n\ngreat players\n\nthanks", " It was good to see the Wings play, but lets not give ESPN too much credit.\nThere weren't any other late baseball games on so they didn't have another\noption.", "\nRe Eric: True, but fortunately we didn't get to find out what they would be\nlike without Recchi for 30 games.\n\nSoderstrom: Absolutely. 4 shutouts in 39 games for a rookie without a lot\nof defense in front of him. Runnerups to Galley and Fedyk who are scoring\na ton over their career best. But Galley thinks he's Paul Coffey (puts scoring\nahead of defending) and Fedyk has tailed off big time.\n\nEklund: Was a big question mark this year and was coming off injuries. 42\npoints in 49 games is not bad at all, and recently he's been a huge factor\nin the wins they've gotten. Eklund has never had a point a game season in\nhis career, his production is very typical for him. How does he qualify as\na disappointment? If anything he's a surprise.\n\nMy choice would be Roussel if I went strictly by what was expected of players,\nbut I never thought that he had what it takes to be a #1 goalie. My biggest\ndisappointment is Bill Dineen. I thought that he was going to be the perfect\ncoach for this young team, instead he's made too many bad moves and IMHO\nhas cost them enough games to keep them out of the playoffs this year. Any\ncoach that thinks putting Eric Lindros at the point on power plays is a\nbright idea needs to go back to coaching school.", "Lake State/Maine in finals...WHO WON? Please post.\n", "from Dean:\n\nYes, you're right. After going home and reading the paper, I got the\nfull details. That's what I get for making a post based on WDUQ's news.\nI should know by now they get just about every sports related item wrong.", "Well, I will have to change the scoring on my playoff pool. Unfortunately\nI don't have time right now, but I will certainly post the new scoring\nrules by tomorrow. Does it matter? No, you'll enter anyway!!! Good!\n\n--\n Keith Keller\t\t\t\tLET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!\n\t\t\t\t\t\tLET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!\n\tkkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu\t\tIVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!", "\n\n\nAll of this is fine. I never said that Murray was a bad GM. I merely said\nthat he isn't the best GM in hockey- or even a contender for that honor.\nIf Murray is as great as you claim- the Wings would have won the Stanley Cup\nby now- probably more than once. If he was as great a GM as you claim\nand he was as poor a coach as you claim- he would have been intelligent\nenough to hire the coach to push the team to the next level of success.\nBut Murray is an average (unspectacular) NHL coach and a pretty good GM\nso none of this is true anyway.", "Joe Torre has to be the worst manager in baseball.\n\nFor anyone who didn't see Sunday's game,\n\nWith a right hander pitching he decides to bench Lankform, a left handed\nhitter and play jordan and gilkey, both right handers.\n\nLater, in the ninth inning with the bases loaded and two outs he puts\nlankford, a 300 hitter with power in as a pinch runner and uses Luis\nAlicea, a 250 hitter with no power as a pinch hitter. What the Hell\nis he thinking.\n\nEarlier in the game in an interview about acquiring Mark Whiten he commented\nhow fortunate the Cardinals were to get Whiten and that Whiten would be a\nregular even though this meant that Gilkey would be hurt, But torre said\nhe liked Gilkey coming off the bench. Gilkey hit over 300 last year,\nwhat does he have to do to start, The guy would be starting on most every\nteam in the league.\n\nFurthermore, in Sundays game when lankford was thrown out at the plate, \nThe replay showed Bucky Dent the third base coach looking down the line\nand waving lankford home, \n\nI can't take this anymore\n\nbrian, a very distressed cardinal fan.\n-- ", "I am trying to get a copy of the _official_ rules of baseball.\nSomeone once sent me the ISBN number of it, but I have since lost it.\nCan anyone give me this information, or tell me where I can find the\nbook? None of my local bookstores have it.", "Here we are with the Sabres up 2-0 to the Bruins and the Sabres' farm\nteam, the Rochester Amerks, on their way to the Calder Cup (urp!) and\nwhat kind of hockey coverage are we getting? The same Penguins/Devils\nevery other day crap that everyone else gets. What's worse, the\nSportsChannel coverage of the Islanders appears to be blocked out,\nsince we got CBA basketball last night, if you can believe it. I\nassume the Sabres are demanding the SC blackout, not ESPN, since we\nare, unbelievably, usually considered part of the Islanders territory\n(MSG coverage of the Rangers is blacked out here). This despite being\na solid seven hours plus from Long Island.\n\nDoes anyone know what GRC is doing, besides putting their satellite\ndish up their ass and screwing my reception of channels 8, 10, and 13?\nDid Empire demand a fortune for the games? What about the games on\nFox37 (or whatever number it is there in Buffalo)? Has anyone phoned\nto complain (besides me)?\n\nGeorge\n", "\n\nI love it when magazine writers make stupid statements like that re:\nperformance. Where do they get those numbers? I'll list the actual\nperformance ranges, which should convince anyone that such a\nstatement is absurd:", "How did the Leafs turn it around??? \n\n\nI couldn't get the Leaf games on the weekend in CA.\n\nDid the Leaf defense wise up overnight?\nDid the Leafs get in the slot or \nwas it just \"fluke\" goals in a goalie duel? \nDid the Wings turn off the jets or muscle? \nWhat gives here?\n\nI caught game 1 on satellite. I figured my Leafs were washed.\nThis is a _major_ turnaround. Very few predicted this. \nHow, how, how did it happen? \n\nWing and Leaf perspectives welcomed!\n", "\nMe too! And any Yankee Stadium gifs as well, please.\n\nThanx in advance,", "Add Boston's WEEI-590AM as the Bruins' flagship station. You probably won't\npick it up anywhere outside of Boston since it's only a 5,000 watt\nstation. The Bruins also have network stations in all 6 New England\nstates.\n\nThis could be the Bruins' last year on 'EEI which also happens to be an\nall-sports radio station. The problem is that the Bruins are not too happy\nbeing moved over to a different station(WMEX 1150AM) whenever there\nis a the same-night conflict with the NBA's Boston Celtics. This happened\n28 times during the course of the regular season.(The Celtics own financially\ntroubled WEEI). The Bruins might resurface on WHDH 850 next year. Stay\ntuned.", "Alan \"All in all, it's just another\" Sepinwall writes...\n\n\n\tI agree. However, I have to object. Growing up in the early\n1980's and playing 2 years of Mario Mendoza-esque Little League, I was\ntold that since my hitting, well, sucked, I would do best to either\n\"Walk, or take one in the face for the team\". I did both. And, my\nYankee fan father would say, \"Bat like Oscar Gamble\". So I did. And my\ncareer OBP was about .550.\n\tNot only was Oscar a fun guy to watch, but he had some pretty \ncool baseball cards and helped me become one of the best little league\nplayers in history.\n", "\n\n\n\n \n I remember reading an article in Reader's digest many moons ago\n about a similar incident. During a minor leaque game a player neck was\n cut when the opponent he was back-checking tripped and his skakes\n flew up. In this case the victim's mask proved a hinderance since\n his face was protected and so he didn't bother with the\n usually instinctive reaction to protect his face/neck. A quick \n thinking coach saved his life by applying direct pressure and using\n snow to contract the blood vessels (from what I can remember).", "\n\nThat is great to hear I just may have to take a raod trip to Milwakee this year and see that again. Last time I saw Bernie Brewer was at the age of 10 and I am now 21 thanks for this post.\n\n\nGood to Bill is getting better form the limited coverage we get here in Iowa\nI know that this will be a great season for the BREW CREW!!\n", "\n\n ^^^^^^^^^^\n\nO.K. people, so it's not tied. I meant leads 2-1........ Shoot me if you\nmust.\n\n-JPC\n\n-- ", "\nHow exactly would Ferreira accomplished this? The three-headed GM-ship has\ntaken a lot of heat, but nobody's explained how things would have been any\ndifferent had Ferreira still been there. Would Ferreira have made more\ntrades? Who would have he had traded? Would he have made fewer trades?\nWho should not have been traded?", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nWhen I say \"black,\" I mean US-born black people for the purposes of this\ndiscussion. Hispanic players were in baseball before 1947, and one \nteam in the 50's signed lots of hispanics because they went over better\nwith the local audience than blacks did. \n\n\nDon't know. But remember: this is the country that had special racial\nlaws for one group and one group only: blacks. Our national history \nincludes huge, long-term, global tensions regarding the black minority; \nthe hispanic minority, while often discriminated against, has never been\nthe object of national obsession.\n\n\nAbsolutely. As I said before, I expect that this effect is disappearing.\nBut it certainly did exist, and all out talk of TWG's and all that is \nnot without some small reason.\n\n\nWell, there's the list. Go for it! I'll cull some more names as I go.\nI expect you're right, btw.", "\nIf ESPN/ABC is going to stick with one-sided Pens-Devils series(and it\nlooks like they will continue with it on Thursday night), I'd rather\nwatch pretty women in the stands than non-action on the ice where a\nslow,aging NJ team being taken out to lunch by a dynamic Pens squad.", "\n\nMost of the points you made about Lopez v. Berryhill/Olson have been\nmade by others, and realizing that Lopez must be the second coming of\nFrank Thomas, I have relented and praised the unmistakeable wisdom of\nhis supporters.\n\n\nSee? This is essentially what everyone was doing - comparing Lopez\nto one of the best players in the game. I'm really looking forward\nto seeing this can't-miss superstar now. As for Thomas, I remember\nbeing an advocate of his being brought up in 1990 even though he was\nonly 21 or 22 (can't remember). But who did the Sox have at first?\nCalderon? Martinez? Kittle? The spot was there. The talent was\nthere. Sure, I say go for it.\n\nI am not convinced that Lopez is anywhere near as talented as Thomas\nwas after his AA season in 1989, and I am not convinced that Olson/\nBerryhill are nearly as bad as Kittle/Martinez were.\n\nBTW, I don't think Thomas was hurt by those three months.\n\n\n\n\n\n\nWell, if we can't compare our guy to one of the best in the game,\nlet's compare our decision to one of the most \"Boneshead\", right?\n\nCal Eldred was 24 when he came up, with a full season at AAA and a\nlonger minor league career. Frankly, I don't know why he didn't\nmake the club in 1992. Bones is a year younger with a lousy prior\nhistory, and just watching him makes me think that I missed a \ncareer as a big-league pitcher. No one - I repeat NO ONE -\nlaughed louder than I did at the Sheffield trade. (Though I guess\nMieske has a future.)\n\n(I take it back. McIlvaine may have laughed louder.)\n\n\n\n\naw, gee, shucks. thanks guy. except I missed the part where SDCN's\nadmit they're wrong.\n\n\n\n--\tThe Beastmaster\n", "\n ESPN had an advertise for Pens/Devils game 4. I don't know what the hell\n they are trying to do, especially against NFL draft. Well I guess there goes\n the NHL ratings for Sundays game.", "Does any one out there listen to WFAN? For those of you who do\nnot know what I am talking about, it is an all sports radio\nstaion in New York. On a clear night the signal reaches up and\ndown the East coast. In particular, I want to know how Len\nBerman and Mike Lupica's show is. I go to school in Virginia\nso I can't listen when there are on during the day. Just\nwondering.\n\nJonathan Alboum\nUVA", "There are also a couple or three places on West 45th between Fifth and\nSixth. \n\nHarvey\n\n\n-- ", " writes...\n\n\n\n\nI hesitate to make assumptions about other people when they write, but\nneither of you two *sound* as though you have kids, and you may not have\nspouses either.\n\nConsider a night game starting at 7:05 PM EST. (It was 7:35 last year,\nbut Cleveland showed what I thought was good sense in pushing it back.)\nI go, and I'm into it until 11 PM minimum. Extra innings could put me\nwell past midnight. Even without extra innings, if the score is beyond\n2-1 I can't see my family that night at all. If the next day is a workday,\nI may have to bag that as well. Further, the later the game goes, the\ncolder it gets on the shore of Lake Erie.\n\nAll that stuff enters into my consideration of even going to a game. If\nyou say you don't care about whether the game is sped up, IMPO you are \nsaying you don't care where the time goes, and that the game is for people\nwho don't have families and don't have to get up for work the next day.\n\nRG", "I guess that nobody noticed that the calls during the world series (and, in\nfact all year) have been pretty much consistently CORRECT. Remember: the rule\nsays it's a strike if ANY PART of the ball passes through the strike zone.\n\nI would certainly agree that high strikes are not called (who could argue\nthis point?) but all in all I think in and out is called pretty well.\n", " \n\n\n\n\nWait a minute. If I read the rules right. A stike is ANY portion of the ball \nover ANY portion of the plate.\n\n\nGiven that the ball is ~ 2.9 \"\" in diameter. This sez that the zone width\nis ~= 17 + (2 * 2.9) or 22.8 \"\" . While this is still less than the 23 \"\nnumber given. I can forgive any UMP for misjudging .2\" on an object moving\nat 85 to 100 miles per hour many times not in a straight line.\n\nI think the Umpires Union has a great grasp of the rules!!!\n", "\nWhat, did you leave the room each of the 100 or so times they said that\nthere WERE NO OTHER NIGHT BASEBALL GAMES? Every break they took back at\nthe studio mentioned it, followed by 'so...we're gonna show you hockey\ninstead.' My wife and I are hoping for rain at every baseball game they\nhave a feed for tommorrow night...\n\nPoint is, be glad they showed hockey, but if baseball was available\nanywhere else you can bet you would've watched baseball last night.", "On two separate occasions I saw Dick Allen (back when he was Richie)\nhomer at Shea off the middle of the black centerfield hitter's\nbackground screen. I think both shots would have traveled 500 feet.", "\nSo in other words, if Roussel shuts out the Sharks and Soderstrom shuts out\nthe Penguins, that's immaterial because it was the coaches decision? Come on,\nJoe, think about what you're saying! Who they played is VERY significant.\nWhy they played them is what's irrelevent. A low GAA against good teams\nis better than a low GAA against bad teams in the context of comparing two\ngoaltenders. A low GAA is better then a higher GAA. A low GAA against good\nteams is much, much better than a higher GAA against bad teams in the context\nof comparing two goaltenders.\n\n\nYES IT DOES! Absolutely. **In the context of comparing two goaltenders**.\nOf course, at the end of the season 2 points is 2 points no matter how you\nget them. And on the score sheets shutouts are shutouts. But if you're a\ncoach deciding between two goalies, or a GM looking to make a trade, you\nhave got to look deeper than the stat sheets. I didn't see the second Toronto\ngame, but the first one was a defensive masterpiece. There was nothing in\nthat game to judge Tommy Soderstrom on because he wasn't tested. The same\nfor Roussel in the Ranger game. Two real scoring chances, one he made a\ngreat play, the other he was saved by a mistake from the other player. If\nyou were judging Roussel on that game alone, you have very little to go by.\n\nBut if you were to look at the 0-0 tie against the Habs, you saw a goalie\nstand on his head to get that shutout. THAT was a #1 goalie in action. Roussel\ndoesn't have a game like that in him.\n\n\nDon't be so sure of that. FLYERS management never says bad thing about\nRoussel, but they don't say too much on the good side either. I've seen\nat least two interviews where every time Farwell was asked how happy he was\nto have two good goaltenders, it was Tommy this, Tommy that, and oh, yeah,\nDom has played well too.\n\n\nFLYERS in the NHL Hall of Fame. Kinda dull, really. They handed out a\nteam picture to everybody who walked in from Pizza Hut, but it was the\nsame picture they sold in the programs in mid-season. Had names like Benning,\nKasper...\n\n\nMostly random seat locations, some were given out by having certain\nautographs on the team photos. I don't like that method since I've seen\nguards help out people get things like Lindros pictures, surely if they\ngot their hands on an autographed picture they'd hold 'em for their buddies.", "\n\n\n\tWarren, I agree with your premise... but... The Babe won on\ntwo teams. That's right, he was part of the Red Sox Dynasty of the\n1910s. And everyone knows that the Yankee Dynsaty wouldn't have\nhappened without thier famous bullpen catcher whose name escapes me at\nthe moment.", "\nNo. Patrick Roy is the reason the game was lost, and Ron Hextall is the\nreason Quebec won. Everybody said it would come down to goaltending, that\ngoaltending was the key, etc etc. Well, the key doesn't quite fit if you're\nMontreal. The Dionne penalty was kind of a cheesy call, but let's face it;\nhe literally left his feet to throw an elbow. Blaming Stewart is just an\nexcuse to avoid facing the fact that Roy allowed what was one of the worst\ngoals he could possibly allow. He even saw the whole shot, dammit. Besides,\nStewart evened things up a bit by calling a Quebec penalty in OT.\n\nMontreal played a solid game (although they still don't know how to clear\ntraffic in front of the net; the loss of Schneider will hurt even more). \nNormally I would say that any team that blows a 2-goal lead with less than \nfive, let alone two, minutes to go in regulation time IN A PLAYOFF GAME \nESPECIALLY needs to be smacked upside their collective heads. But I don't\nthink this was a team loss (although Keane should have been able to clear \nthe zone just prior to the first Quebec goal). Roy is paid big money to \nplay. He looked like a player in an industrial league on Sakic's shot.\n\nDemers should start Racicot in the next game. If not that, he should let\nthe damn team read the papers for the next day or two....and maybe this\narticle, if possible.\n\n\nI didn't think the wrap-around was as bad as the second goal. I also didn't\nthink Scott Young should have gotten around the defender (can't remember who)\nin the first place. But you are correct, it shouldn't have gone in\nregardless.\n\n\nYep. Moog looked bad on Mogilny's goal with five seconds left in the second,\nIMO. How about Neely though? Holy shit, what a player.\n\nSpeaking of great players, man-oh-man can Quebec skate. I haven't seen a\nteam so potent on the rush in a long time. Watching them break out of their\nzone, especially Sundin, is a treat to watch. They remind me of the Red \nArmy. \n\nBut I still hate the team.\n\nOn the rest of the games: Didn't St. Louis' winning goal come on a\npowerplay? Penalties will cost Chicago dearly, especially against Detroit. \nSame goes for Calgary; very, very undisciplined. When Marty McSorely is\nwaving guys to the bench to *avoid* fights, you know something's up. New\nJersey was overmatched, Terreri's heroics notwithstanding. Mario is\nunbelievable, and Jagr for some reason shows up in the playoffs. But I \nhate that team anyway.\n\n", "\n\n It depends on which uniforms you are talking about. For the last\ncouple of years I believe Toronto and Pittsburgh has used the same uniforms,\nor at least very similar. The home jerseys had the team nick name\n(Blue Jays or Pirates), but the road jerseys had the name of the city\n(Toronto or Pittsburgh). I believe this is the way most teams design\ntheir uniforms.\n", "I hate to be rude, but screw the seating chart, post the stadium instead.\n", "I'm personally expecting Moog. Blue played fairly decent (alright\nspectacular at times) in his 1/2 a game but Moog has the experience.\nWhat Did Blue have going for him, nothing, What would happen in a Tie\ngame, the prssure is then on the Goal tender to insure that you keep the\npuck out (at the very least until your team scores) Blue didn't face that\nkind of pressure on Tuesday. The Bruins will come out storming that\nis for sure. I really think that this series is up to Buffalo, Boston\n(except for two bad passes in game one) really hasn't played that bad\n, As a believer is statistics, you know that your going to get the\npuck by fuhr sooner or later, just keep shooting. There game plan is\nsound but they need to take the lead first, and control the tempo.....\n\n IMHO\n Pat Ellis\n\nP.S. GO BRUINS GO UMAINE BLACK BEARS 42-1-2 NUMBER 1......\n\n HOCKEY EAST REGULARS SEASON CHAMPIONS.....\n HOCKEY EAST TOURNAMENT CHAMPIONS>......\n PAUL KARIYA, HOBEY BAKER AWARD WINNER.......\n NCAA DIV. 1 HOCKEY TOURNAMENT CHAMPIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!\n", "\n\nI'm totally p*-o'd, too! Vancouver-Winnipeg is great west-coast hockey -\nfast-paced and loads of talent. What I've seen so far is hardly\nentertaining, with the exception of the odd shift every now & then (of\ncourse I missed Calgary-LA & Pitts-Jersey...)\n\n\nAmen...\n\n\nThat's cheaper than what I do - PHONE CALLS. (There must be a better\nsystem - one ring, Adams to Linden, he SCORES; two rings Bure rushes up\nthe ice, he SCORES, etc etc :-))\n", "I agree thouroughly!! Screw the damn contractual agreements!\nShow the exciting hockey game. They will lose\nfans of ESPN (of which I have been one for quite a while) quickly \nwith decisions like this.\nJust my $.02", "Does anyone know where Billy Taylor is? Richmond or Syracuse? He was taken\nby the Jays in the Rule V draft, but not kept on the roster. Baseball Weekly\nsaid that he was demoted to Syracuse, but a Toronto paper indicated that\nthe Braves took him back. Is there an Atlanta fan, or anyone reading this,\nwho knows? ", "Come on Boston, where the hell are you? Seven wins in a row and what, choke?\n\nI'd much rather see the Bruins in the Wales Conference finals vs. Pitt than\nBuffalo or Quebec, if only because it would be more interesting. Not that\nBuffalo or Quebec can't put up a good fight, but I'd much more enjoy a 7-0\npasteing of the Bruins than the Devils. You have to feel for Terrerri(sp?).", "\n\nNow *this* is a legitimate point. Baseball is entertainment, and I have no\nquarrel with people who find certain styles of play more entertaining than\nothers, regardless of their win-value. Personally, I'm a huge fan of the\nslug-bunt; I doubt it's a high-percentage play, but I get a big kick out of\nit. I am willing to live with the bad consequences in exchange for the fun.\n\nOf course, this is *not* the same as claiming (as some do) that Galarraga's\ninability to defer gratification isn't hurting his team because he \"isn't\npaid to walk\" or \"is an RBI guy\" or whatever.\n\n\nI'm not sure. I used to think this was true, but more and more I'm becoming\nconvinced that it's the other way around: among players with the physical\nability to hit the ball real hard, the patient ones are the ones who get the\nchance to do it a lot.\n\nLet's break down the four basic categories of hitter, according to whether\nthey are power threats and whether they walk a lot:\n\n\n\t\t\tPower\t\t\tNo Power\n\n\tPatient\t\tFrank Thomas\t\tBrett Butler\n\t\t\tBarry Bonds\t\tOzzie Smith\n\t\t\tMark McGwire\t\tCraig Grebeck\n\t\t\tBabe Ruth\t\tMiller Huggins\n\t\t\tTed Williams\t\tBilly Hamilton\n\t\t\tRickey Henderson\tEddie Joost\n\t\t\tJoe Morgan\t\tMike Hargrove\n\t\t\t .\t\t\t .\n\t\t\t .\t\t\t .\n\t\t\t .\t\t\t .\n\n\tImpatient\tErnie Banks\t\tOzzie Guillen\n\t\t\tDave Kingman\t\tShawon Dunston\n\t\t\tJoe Carter\t\tAndres Thomas\n\t\t\tGeorge Bell\t\tJose Lind\n\t\t\tKirby Puckett\t\tDevon White\n\tetc.\n\nAs far as I can tell, all the categories are full. It really looks like the\ntwo are independent. Nobody could possibly be *afraid* of Craig Grebeck at\nthe plate, and yet he walks quite a lot. Part of that, undoubtedly, is being\nsmall of stature, but surely major league pitchers can hit that sort of \ntarget at least 3 times out of 6. Randy Milligan is an even better example;\nhe's only shown noticeable power for one (partial) season, but he walks all\nover the place, despite his huge strike zone.\n\n", "\n\tRecently, I heard the Red Sox on WROL a Spanish-speaking radio station.\nI thought it was so unreal. The Red Sox in Spanish? Anyway, I want to find\nout how widespread this is? Being a NY native, I know the scMets are on in\nSpanish but not the Yankmes. I wuold think that LA,SD,Texas and Fla are on\nin Spanish. Are there any Spanish-speaking networks or is this a local\n", "\n\n\nFor those of you who read TV Guide, there's an article in next week's\nSPORTSVIEW concerning the NHL and major network broadcasting. Pretty\ninteresting.", "Ditto...\n\nIf we allow people like him to continue to do what he does, it's a\nshame. People say that cheap shots and drawing penalties by fake-\ning is part of the game, I say \"Bullsh-t!\". If he ever tried some\nlike that on a Yzerman, he'd would have to deal with Probert now\nwouldn't he? What Ulf does isn't even retaliatory! There's now\nway one could justify what he does and if they do they're fools.\n", "\n\nMatt's problem is really more ability than attitude. It isn't that he's\ngot it in his mind that he wants to swing away, but rather that he's\n(still) a total sucker for the curve ball. It looked for a while in\n1990 that he was getting better but it's still his weak point.\n\nAs to whether it does him any good to have Bonds behind him, the \nnet.stat.mavens will probably tell you there's no reason that it\nshould, but if he thinks it will, it might be a self-fulfilling\nprophecy.\n\nAs to whether the Giants' lineup is optimal: who knows? Batting Bonds,\nthe team's best hitter, fifth does seem to be odd, but the #1 and #2\nhitters aren't exactly Messrs. OBA, so they aren't giving much up\nthere. And although Clark isn't the overall offensive force that Bonds\nis, he seems better suited to the #3 spot. Assuming, of course, that\nhe starts hitting one of these days...\n", "Darryl Strawberry's moon shots were fun! He can hit those high and far\nhome runs that if he actually ran them out he'd be rounding second base\nby the time they landed. We used to say that he should have to file a\nflight plan at LaGuardia for some of them. Then _Bull_Durham_ came out\nand that was changed. :-)\n\nOn homers he pulled that didn't go high, they were microwave home runs.\nMicrowave, as in they got outta there in a hurry! In a game in 1988, he\ncame off the bench with the flu and on the second pitch send a rocket\ndown the right field line that didn't even allow Bob Murphy the \"luxury\"\nof a home run call. The story went he stayed in the clubhouse, the with\nthe Mets down by two and two on Davey Johnson sent for him to pinch hit.\nHe came out of the clubhouse saying \"one swing and we go home.\" He hit\nthe homer, ran the bases, then went straight for the clubhouse to shower\nand go home.\n\nThose were the days....", "Hi I need a one way flight ticket from Des Moines to Chicago\non the 28th of May 1993. \nplease send your replies to jasonlim@iastate.edu or to this account\nas soon as possible\nthank you\n", "\n\nIt is a long standing good luck Redwing's tradition to throw an octopus \non the ice during a Stanley Cup game. They say it dates back to '52\nat the Olympia when the Wings became the 1st team (I think) to sweep \nthe cup in 8 games. A lot hardet to throw one from Joe Louis seats\nthan from the old Olympia balcony, though.", "How come noone mentions Eric Hoffer when talking about \nfanatic behavior anymore?\n\n", "-------------------------------------------------------------------------\nOne reason that the WHA abandoned the blue puck was the fact that it\ncrumbled very quickly during play. The blue dye that was used somehow\naffected the vulcanized rubber of the puck, decreasing its cohesiveness.", "Here's a few two-sport star trivia questions. I'll admit they're not\ntoo difficult, but a bit challenging nevertheless.\n\nMail me your answers please; or post them.\n\n\n1. Which pitcher played for the Harlem Globetrotters?\n\n2. Which major leaguer briefly tried professional golf in 1978?\n\n3. Which does Dieon Sanders have more of (professionally):\n career touchdowns or triples?\n\n4. Has there been any player of both pro hockey and baseball?\n If so, name him and the years he played each.\n\n\nIf you have any other two-sport star tidbits, feel free to include them.", "\nManny Mota.\nBilly Hatcher\nHerm Winningham.\nLonnie Smith (not light hitting, but a horror in the field)\nGary Redus\nDion James\nDaryl Boston\nVince Coleman (yeah, he's finally started to have a decent OBP)\nCecil Espy\nWillie Wilson\nGary Pettis\nMilt Thompson\nGary Varsho\n\nOK, I admit to taking a quick browse through the Major League Handbook, but\nonly after the first 7 or 8. Oh, and there's the all-time light-hitting\nblack outfielder: Lou Brock. Look it up. And Curt Flood. Cesar Geronimo.\nCesar Cedeno. \n\n\nLikewise for my list. Oh, and a prediction: Milt Cuyler.\n\n Mike Jones | AIX High-End Development | mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com", "\n\n\nWhile I can see why they want to cut down on the time spent walking around,\nGant wasn't ordered back in the box \"sooner\", he was ordered back immediately.\nAs soon as he stepped out, Hirschbeck told him to get back in the box.\nNow, Gant doesn't take a lot of walks between pitches. The only reason\nhe did then because he was *very* bothered by the call. I expect his\nconcentration wasn't there yet, and in a crucial situation I imagine it's\nbest to be as calm as possible. Contributing factors would be Gant's\nbad day at the plate, bad year at the plate, and the Braves long scoring\ndrought.\n\nNow, it's pretty stupid to go ahead and talk the walk when the umpire is\ntelling you to get in there. You know the umpire is going to do something\n(call for a strike, throw you out, etc.). Gant was wrong.\n\nBut Hirschbeck was more wrong, in my biased view. Aside from the major chip\nhe seemed to have on his shoulder, what was the problem. Gant had a reason\nto want some time (disputed strike call). Gant hadn't been wasting time all\ngame. The game had been cruising along, and was just over two hours old.\nThe score was 1-0, with 2 outs in the ninth and a runner in scoring position.\nIs there *any* reason Hirschbeck couldn't, and shouldn't, cut Gant a little\nslack? For no discernible constructive reason, Hirschbeck disrupted the\ngame, caused a five minute delay, and materially hurt the batter in a key\nsituation. Did he have a date to get to?\n\nAnd I still wonder why Terry was tossed earlier in the game.\n-- \nDale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Baseball fanatic", "\nI've been saying that for at least 2 years now and even the A's conditioning\nguru told Jose he was carrying too much weight and losing some would help\nhis back.Although I don't for one second believe Jose used steroids,his\nback problems are very similar to problems alot of steroid users experience\nbecause they are simply carrying too much weight on their frame(see Jeff\nBregel ex 49er as a textbook example), and IMHO Jose is too big for his\nframe.\n\n\n\nI can't imagine how to estimate bat speed, but its pretty obvious that\nJose is missing fastballs he used to hit, likely due to his back.\n\n\n\nI don't know, he had an even more open stance when he first came up with\nthe A's, and had no problems with it then. It might be that pre-back\nproblems, he was quick enough to cover up any deficiencies the stance\ncaused, but now he's lost just enough bat speed that the stance hurts\nhim. The old saying if you're hot its a trigger mechanism, if you're\ncold, its a hitch. \n\n\nThe biggest problem IMHO is he never has found a stance he's comfortable\nwith for more than a few months. He changes his stance so much, he loses\ntrack of where the strike zone is. In Wednesday's night game, he was \nclearly mad at strike calls on both corners that looked pretty good to\nme. I think he no longer knows where the strike zone really is because\nhe's changed his stance so much.\n\nI'm also a bit concerned that because he's got Palmer and Gonzalez hitting\nall the homeruns, he'll become competitive, swing even harder and screw\nhimself up even worse. LaRussa always said that Canseco's famous batting\npractice homer shows did him more harm than good as they encouraged\nbad hitting habits.\n\n\n", "Did anyone see the Montreal - Quebec game yesterday? It was tight right down\nto the last second of the third period. In the overtime Roy and Hextall played\nlike they were gods.\n Ok, so Montreal won! They deserved it after getting their first goal in\novertime waved off because the puck was hit in with a high stick. Their second\ngoal in overtime was also replayed, but I could not tell if it was the Montreal\nplayer who kicked it in. The puck definitely was not directed in by a stick.\nAnyways, Montreal is back into the series.\n\n\n\n\n\n", "Actually, the way I understand it, it is an octapus.\nApparently, a number of years ago, a fan threw an octapus on\nthe ice and the announcer said \"Octapi will not occupy the ice\"\nor something like that, and it's happened ever since. The fans\ncheer those who pick up the dead octapus with their hands, and\nboo those who use a shovel.", "Yes, I could look it up but I prefer to post this question \nto the net...\n\nI read somewhere in a long forgotten article that the handsignals \nused by major league umps were originally used to help a \ndeaf ball player by the name of \"Dummy\". Urban myth? True? \nI gots ta know.\n", "I'll tell youm all one thing. Steve howe and FARR are much better then the \nworst pitcher in yankee Pitching ___________________\n", "NHL PLAYOFF RESULTS FOR 4/20/93.\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n CONFERENCE SEMI-FINALS BEST OF SEVEN\n PATRICK ADAMS NORRIS SMYTHE\n \n NJ BUF (leads 2-0) STL (leads 1-0) WIN \n PIT (leads 2-0) BOS CHI VAN (leads 1-0)\n\n NYI (tied 1-1) MON TOR LA (leads 1-0) \n WAS QUE (leads 2-0) DET (leads 1-0) CAL \n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nNew Jersey Devils 0 0 0 - 0\nPittsburgh Penguins (leads series 2-0) 2 4 1 - 7\n\n1st period: PIT, McEachern 1 - (Francis, Taglianetti) 15:09\n\t PIT, M.Lemieux 3 - (U.Samuelsson, Barrasso) (sh) 17:41\n\n2nd period: PIT, Tocchet 2 - (K.Stevens, U.Samuelsson) 3:48\n\t PIT, Jagr 2 - (Francis, Ramsey) 12:39\n\t PIT, K.Stevens 1 - (Francis, Murphy) (pp) 15:43 \n\t PIT, McEachern 2 - (Daniels, Mullen) 16:46\n\n3rd period: PIT, Mullen 1 - (Francis, Barrasso) 17:42\n\nPowerplay Opportunities-Devils 0 of 5\n\t\t\tPenguins 1 of 4\n\nShots on Goal-\tDevils 12 11 13 - 36\n\t\tPenguins 13 10 4 - 27\n\nNew Jersey Devils--Terreri (0-2) (23 shots - 17 saves) Billington (0:00 third)\n\t \t (4 shots - 3 saves)\nPittsburgh Penguins--Barrasso (2-0) (36 shots - 36 saves)\n\nATT-16,164\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nNew York Islanders (series tied 1-1) 1 1 2 0 1 - 5\nWashington Capitals 0 2 2 0 0 - 4\n\n1st period: NYI, Turgeon 1 - (King, Thomas) 13:14\n\n2nd period: WAS, Hunter 3 - (Johansson, Miller) 6:33\n\t NYI, Turgeon 2 - (Thomas, Vaske) 12:36\n\t WAS, Hunter 4 - (Johansson, Carpenter) (pp) 16:51\n\n3rd period: NYI, Hogue 1 - 3:31\n\t WAS, Khristich 2 - (Cavallini, Bondra) 7:16\n\t NYI, Ferraro 2 - (Flatley, Hogue) 14:50\n\t WAS, Hunter 5 - (Johansson, Khristich) (pp) 19:57\n\n1 Overtime: NONE\n\n2 Overtime: NYI, Mullen 1 - (Ferraro, Flatley) 14:15\n\nPowerplay Opportunities-Islanders 0 of 5\n\t\t\tCapitals 2 of 5\n\nShots on Goal-\tIslanders 14 17 8 13 9 - 61\n\t\tCapitals 6 9 11 14 5 - 45\n\nNew York Islanders--Healy (1-1) (45 shots - 41 saves)\nWashington Capitals--Tabaracci (1-1) (61 shots - 56 saves)\n\nATT-15,421\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nMontreal Canadiens 0 0 1 - 1\nQuebec Nordiques (leads series 2-0) 3 0 1 - 4\n\n1st period: QUE, Leschyshyn 1 - (Kamensky, Sakic) (pp) 4:19\n\t QUE, Young 2 - (Lapointe) 11:41\n\t QUE, Young 3 - (Lapointe, Duchesne) 13:56\n\n2nd period: NONE\n\n3rd period: MON, Bellows 2 - (Odelein) 11:05\n\t QUE, Lapointe 1 - (Ricci) (en) 19:23\n\nPowerplay Opportunities-Canadiens 0 of 1\n\t\t\tNordiques 1 of 2\n\nShots on Goal-\tCanadiens 8 10 15 - 33\n\t\tNordiques 18 14 6 - 38\n\nMontreal Canadiens--Roy (0-2) (37 shots - 34 saves)\nQuebec Nordiques--Hextall (2-0) (33 shots - 32 saves)\n\nATT-15,399\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nBuffalo Sabres (leads series 2-0) 2 1 1 - 4\nBoston Bruins 0 0 0 - 0\n\n1st period: BUF, Presley 1 - (sh) 4:27\n\t BUF, Wood 1 - (Houlder, B.Sweeney) (pp) 8:07\n\n2nd period: BUF, Mogilny 3 - (LaFontaine) 5:03\n\t \n3rd period: BUF, Hawerchuk 1 - (Carney, Smehlik) (pp) 14:48\n\nPowerplay Opportunities-Sabres 2 of 4\n\t\t\tBruins 0 of 5\n\nShots on Goal-\tSabres 9 8 8 - 25\n\t\tBruins 14 12 8 - 34\n\nBuffalo Sabres--Fuhr (2-0) (34 shots - 34 saves)\nBoston Bruins--Moog (0-2) (10 shots - 7 saves) Blue (5:03 second) (15 shots -\n\t 14 saves)\n\nATT-14,448\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n", "\n But maybe his wife was :-) \n\n I don't claim to know whether it's true or not, but a couple different\npeople (totally unrelated) have said Harry was 'relieved' of his duties\nbecause he had more than platonic relations with Augie Busch's wife.\nJudgement is left to the individual, cuz I sure don't claim to be an\nimpeachable source in this case. \n", "\nLou wanted Morris all along. The idiot. Giving the man $40 million\nto play with is like giving a five year old a loaded Uzi with the\nsafety off. The only question is how many shots he will get off\nbefore somebody is wise enough to take it away.\n\n\nI don't see why people expect Boston to finish sixth. The bottom four\nteams last year were essentially tied. Boston, in seventh place, had\n73 wins. The Yankees and Indians, tied for fourth place, had 76 wins.\n\nNow I should think it is obvious that the Red Sox improved more than\nthe Indians or Tigers. Basically, the Red Sox are stronger this year\nat 1B, DH, SS, LF, and RF. They have healthier starting pitchers (so\nfar, at least) and better relievers. I see no reason why they\nshouldn't win ~85 games. Meanwhile, the Indians are in shambles and\nthe Tigers *still* have no pitching. They will win some 20-3\nblowouts, but they will lose an awful lot of 7-5 games too.\n\n*MAYBE* the Sox will play poorly, win 78 games, and finish fifth.\nBut I think third or fourth place is more likely.", "[some deletions]\n\nWell, we agree on the last part.:-) One of the basic things you need to \nhave in a statistic to be able to predict a player's performance on it\nin the future is for there to be a correlation from year to year. A \nplayer's batting average is correlated fairly well from year to year.\nA player's ability to walk or infielder's Defensive Average are correlated\nbetter. That is to say, given their past performance in those statistics\nwe can have a pretty good handle on how they'll do next year. Put in \nsome simple information about aging and you can do even better. One of \nthe basic problems with something like \"clutch\" batting average - overall\nbatting average is that the correlation from year to year is almost zero. \nAdding to the sample size doesn't seem to help much. As a counterexample to \nwhat you showed, consider the following two players from 1984-1987:\n\n Non-Clutch Clutch\n AB H BA AB H BA\n \nMaldonado 1060 260 .245 254 78 .307\nLemon 1643 457 .278 256 57 .223\n\nIf you had had these two players in 1988, by your logic, in those \"clutch\"\nsituations, you'd bat Maldonado for Lemon in a blink of an eye. Well, in \n1988, Maldonado hit .267 in \"non-clutch\" and .190 in \"clutch\", while Lemon\nhit .254 in \"non-clutch\" and .313 in \"clutch\". Before you accuse me of \ncompletely cooking the data, there were 96 players who had 25+ \"clutch\"\nat bats every year from 1984-1988 (according to Elias). As a simple\nmeasure of clutchness, let's just look at clutch BA-non-clutch BA. If you use \n'84-'87 to predict '88 for those 96 players, you'd find that 27 of the\n96 were below league average in that measure both in '84-87 and in '88,\n26 were above league average in both periods and the other 43 were \nabove in one and below in the other. If you were just flipping coins,\nyou'd expect to get 24 above/below in both and 48 that switched. The\ndifference between the observed results and the coin flip experiment\nis not statisically significant.\n\nBTW, correlating players' _overall_ batting average from '84-'87 with\n'88 gives a correlation coefficient of 0.59, which is significant at\nsomething better than the 99.9% confidence level. Correlating their\n(clutch-non-clutch BA) for the same period gives a correlation of \n0.088, significant at no level of any interest.\n\n\nActually, it's technically incorrect to say that we can't predict future\nclutch performance. It's more correct to say that we can't predict\nfuture clutch performance with any skill.\n\nHarold", "Oakland, California, Sunday, April 25th, 1:05 PM PDT:\n\nJose Mesa vs. Storm Davis.\n\nYou have been warned.\n", "Well, as long as folks are sharing their esteemed wisdom, Li'l Karnak sez:\n\n\tAL West\t\tAL East \tNL West\t\tNL East \n\t1) Chicago\t1) Toronto\t1) Atlanta\t1) St. Louis\n\t2) Texas\t2) New York\t2) Cincinnati\t2) Montreal \n\t3) Minnesota\t3) Baltimore\t3) Houston\t3) New York \n\t4) Oakland \t4) Boston\t4) Los Angeles\t4) Philadelphia\n\t5) Seattle\t5) Detroit\t5) San Diego\t5) Pittsburgh \n\t6) Kansas City\t6) Milwaukee\t6) San Fran. \t6) Chicago \n\t7) California\t7) Cleveland\t7) Colorado\t7) Florida \n\n Details to follow later. Pick it apart as you like. \n\n Also, if anyone is still taking entries for prediction pools/contests,\ncould you snag mine and add it to the list? Thanks. \n\n I'm just glad it's opening day; makes up a little bit for the gloom/doom\nweather patterns here. \n\n Lundy, \n", "\nWell, yeah. On the other hand, for the first few years of his career he\nlooked like Herb Washington. Dan Gladden doesn't seem to suck defensively,\neither.\n\nYeah, and how many of the white guys played one year into a long career?\nIt's actually not an uncommon phenomenon, and how long a guy hangs around\nbased on one good year seems like a reasonable question to explore on a\nracial basis.\n\nHey, he plays for Lou Gorman, doesn't he? OK, so it's eight years.\n\n\nGood point on Cedeno. OTOH, I haven't seen that extensive list of 10-year\nDan Gladdens, either. There really aren't that many players altogether who\nhang around for 10 years even if they're reasonably good.\n\n Mike Jones | AIX High-End Development | mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com", "\nDo you notice that _nobody_ on the team is willing to take charge?\nA dominant defenceman would be nice....too bad Schneider got hurt.\nHe reminds me of Chris Chelios sometimes. Speaking of Chelios, I \nwonder if Serge Savard feels like a moron for making that trade.\nI also wish we still had Corson.\n\nRob Ramage on the ice is less useful than a Gatorade bottle on the \nbench.\n\nVincent Damphousse has decided to take a vacation, apparently. I have\nno idea why Demers is playing Denis Savard on the checking line with\nCarbonneau. Savard is skating well, and is one of the only dangerous\nCanadiens in Quebec's zone with the puck. Too bad nobody is in front\nmost of the time.\n\nDo you also notice that in the defensive zone, not a single Nordique\ngets knocked down? It's disgusting. We also have Lebeau (5'10\", 172)\ngetting pasted at centre ice by Wolaninn (6'3\", 205) with no reply\nfrom the team, except to yell for a penalty. Dammit, Denis Savard \nthrew the best (only?) Montreal hit of the night when he knocked\nSundin off-balance. When Denis Savard is your team's enforcer, there's\nbig trouble someplace...\n\n\nAside from that second goal, Roy did stand on his head. The third \nperiod at least provided something to look forward to. Habs won the\nperiod, IMO, and I guess somebody finally came along to smack them a\ncouple of times in the second intermission to remind them that a game\nhad started at 7:30. Hopefully they play that way at home. Roy made \nthe saves (we'll ignore that second goal), so now it's up to the team.\n\n\n--\ndchhabra@stpl.ists.ca\n", "Here is the OPI (Offensive Production Index) for all AL players with at\nleast 10 at bats.\n\nIt is early in the season so there are some very high numbers. Last years\nleader was Frank Thomas at 0.682.\n\nTeams are denoted by an * as the first character of the name and each\nplayer has his team preceeding his name.\n\nThe equations used are found at the end of the post.\n\nComments and suggestions are welcome.\n\nKevin\n\nLeague OPI: 0.448\nLeague BA: 0.268\nLeague SLG: 0.405\nLeague OBA: 0.341\n\nRank Player OPI BA SLG OBA\n-----------------------------------------------------\n1 Tor,carter 2.142 0.583 1.417 0.615\n2 Cle,baerga 1.432 0.520 1.040 0.538\n3 Det,phillips 1.334 0.565 0.609 0.655\n4 Oak,mcgwire 1.147 0.364 0.636 0.632\n5 Tor,white 1.065 0.500 0.650 0.545\n6 Bal,anderson 0.951 0.423 0.692 0.500\n7 NYY,owen 0.934 0.500 0.577 0.567\n8 Oak,rhenderson 0.911 0.391 0.565 0.533\n9 Mil,thon 0.804 0.476 0.619 0.476\n10 Oak,browne 0.800 0.476 0.476 0.522\n11 Tex,palmer 0.781 0.333 0.875 0.333\n11 Det,gibson 0.781 0.312 0.562 0.500\n13 Cle,howard 0.755 0.455 0.727 0.455\n14 NYY,tartabull 0.742 0.296 0.667 0.424\n15 Tex,rodriguez 0.736 0.429 0.500 0.529\n15 Tex,gonzalez 0.736 0.261 0.913 0.292\n17 Bos,zupcic 0.728 0.400 0.500 0.455\n18 Sea,felder 0.723 0.357 0.429 0.471\n19 Oak,blankenship 0.722 0.333 0.333 0.524\n20 Min,puckett 0.717 0.280 0.720 0.379\n21 NYY,oneill 0.710 0.435 0.609 0.458\n22 Cle,belle 0.703 0.348 0.696 0.375\n23 Sea,buhner 0.699 0.294 0.471 0.478\n24 Mil,hamilton 0.682 0.458 0.458 0.500\n25 Det,whitaker 0.680 0.312 0.500 0.421\n26 Det,fielder 0.666 0.273 0.591 0.407\n27 Tor,sprague 0.649 0.300 0.750 0.300\n28 Whi,cora 0.646 0.350 0.500 0.458\n29 Whi,raines 0.641 0.250 0.750 0.308\n30 NYY,kelly 0.625 0.348 0.565 0.375\n31 Bos,quintana 0.617 0.455 0.455 0.455\n32 Sea,tmartinez 0.612 0.211 0.632 0.348\n32 Cal,gonzales 0.612 0.250 0.250 0.478\n34 Whi,burks 0.609 0.348 0.565 0.375\n35 Cal,snow 0.602 0.368 0.526 0.400\n36 Whi,karkovice 0.598 0.167 0.417 0.412\n37 *Cleveland 0.595 0.340 0.549 0.377\n38 Cle,sorrento 0.594 0.273 0.727 0.273\n39 Sea,amaral 0.587 0.368 0.579 0.429\n39 Bos,cooper 0.587 0.375 0.458 0.423\n41 Min,winfield 0.578 0.292 0.667 0.292\n42 Cal,curtis 0.571 0.333 0.381 0.417\n43 Bos,mvaughn 0.566 0.316 0.526 0.350\n44 Oak,steinbach 0.556 0.333 0.542 0.385\n45 *Oakland 0.555 0.298 0.439 0.406\n46 NYY,maas 0.547 0.333 0.389 0.429\n47 Kan,joyner 0.546 0.300 0.400 0.417\n48 Min,knoblauch 0.535 0.304 0.348 0.448\n49 Bos,greenwell 0.534 0.261 0.478 0.370\n50 Oak,brosius 0.532 0.273 0.545 0.333\n51 Tor,olerud 0.530 0.333 0.400 0.412\n52 Bal,mercedes 0.529 0.286 0.429 0.412\n53 *NYYankees 0.527 0.321 0.468 0.377\n54 Bal,hoiles 0.525 0.263 0.526 0.333\n55 Mil,kmak 0.523 0.286 0.286 0.412\n56 Oak,dhenderson 0.517 0.231 0.462 0.412\n57 Cle,lofton 0.515 0.346 0.385 0.370\n58 Min,larkin 0.514 0.357 0.500 0.400\n59 Bos,dawson 0.504 0.333 0.458 0.360\n60 Cle,camartinez 0.503 0.333 0.389 0.400\n61 Det,gladden 0.498 0.312 0.500 0.312\n62 Cal,polonia 0.494 0.292 0.500 0.320\n63 *California 0.487 0.295 0.404 0.364\n64 *Detroit 0.484 0.260 0.410 0.357\n65 Det,tettleton 0.475 0.211 0.421 0.348\n66 Cal,disarcina 0.473 0.304 0.478 0.304\n67 Cal,easley 0.472 0.304 0.435 0.333\n68 Bal,baines 0.470 0.300 0.400 0.364\n69 Tex,franco 0.469 0.300 0.350 0.391\n70 Whi,ljohnson 0.464 0.280 0.400 0.333\n71 Sea,vizquel 0.463 0.222 0.222 0.417\n72 NYY,bwilliams 0.461 0.294 0.471 0.314\n73 Mil,gvaughn 0.460 0.222 0.389 0.391\n74 Min,hrbek 0.458 0.240 0.360 0.367\n75 Bal,cripken 0.451 0.333 0.407 0.379\n75 *Seattle 0.451 0.237 0.367 0.361\n77 Cal,salmon 0.448 0.267 0.267 0.450\n78 Kan,mcreynolds 0.447 0.182 0.500 0.280\n79 *Toronto 0.443 0.261 0.430 0.318\n79 *Texas 0.443 0.237 0.489 0.289\n81 Min,pagliarulo 0.439 0.286 0.429 0.333\n82 *WhiteSox 0.432 0.243 0.378 0.336\n83 Kan,hiatt 0.431 0.278 0.500 0.316\n84 Whi,guillen 0.426 0.263 0.263 0.364\n85 Whi,thomas 0.419 0.259 0.333 0.355\n86 Kan,mcrae 0.414 0.296 0.333 0.345\n87 *Boston 0.411 0.270 0.365 0.336\n88 Cle,hill 0.410 0.300 0.500 0.300\n89 NYY,mattingly 0.400 0.324 0.353 0.343\n90 *Baltimore 0.394 0.251 0.361 0.315\n91 Bal,gomez 0.382 0.316 0.316 0.350\n91 *Minnesota 0.382 0.237 0.379 0.298\n93 Whi,fisk 0.381 0.273 0.545 0.273\n94 Cle,jefferson 0.379 0.263 0.316 0.333\n95 Oak,neel 0.370 0.188 0.500 0.188\n96 Cal,cdavis 0.369 0.211 0.421 0.250\n97 Bos,fletcher 0.364 0.217 0.391 0.280\n98 *Milwaukee 0.361 0.257 0.293 0.333\n99 Det,livingstone 0.360 0.250 0.438 0.294\n100 Tor,ralomar 0.354 0.263 0.316 0.333\n101 *KansasCity 0.343 0.236 0.327 0.291\n102 Oak,bordick 0.339 0.200 0.250 0.304\n103 Tex,canseco 0.337 0.190 0.381 0.261\n104 Sea,valle 0.336 0.250 0.312 0.294\n105 Bal,devereaux 0.329 0.207 0.379 0.233\n106 Kan,lind 0.323 0.188 0.438 0.188\n107 Mil,surhoff 0.312 0.227 0.273 0.292\n107 Kan,brett 0.312 0.259 0.296 0.286\n109 Whi,bell 0.310 0.207 0.310 0.258\n110 Cle,salomar 0.306 0.200 0.200 0.304\n111 Mil,jaha 0.304 0.267 0.267 0.353\n111 Det,fryman 0.304 0.185 0.296 0.214\n113 NYY,boggs 0.296 0.200 0.233 0.294\n114 Tex,bripken 0.290 0.250 0.333 0.308\n115 Min,mack 0.289 0.233 0.333 0.258\n116 Min,harper 0.288 0.280 0.280 0.280\n117 Cle,fermin 0.284 0.200 0.200 0.304\n118 Bos,rivera 0.276 0.118 0.176 0.286\n119 Mil,spiers 0.275 0.231 0.231 0.286\n120 Mil,yount 0.268 0.208 0.208 0.269\n121 Tor,schofield 0.265 0.133 0.267 0.235\n121 Tex,hulse 0.265 0.154 0.308 0.214\n123 Sea,griffey 0.261 0.105 0.263 0.261\n124 Sea,obrien 0.259 0.100 0.100 0.308\n124 Kan,macfarlane 0.259 0.273 0.273 0.333\n126 Oak,sierra 0.256 0.200 0.240 0.231\n127 Kan,jose 0.254 0.167 0.167 0.286\n128 Bos,hatcher 0.252 0.188 0.188 0.278\n129 Sea,blowers 0.251 0.200 0.200 0.273\n130 Whi,ventura 0.247 0.167 0.167 0.310\n130 Tex,palmeiro 0.247 0.130 0.261 0.167\n132 Bal,reynolds 0.227 0.118 0.118 0.250\n133 Kan,mayne 0.222 0.231 0.231 0.231\n133 Cal,myers 0.222 0.231 0.231 0.231\n135 NYY,nokes 0.219 0.150 0.300 0.150\n136 Bos,calderon 0.209 0.167 0.167 0.286\n137 Bos,pena 0.207 0.267 0.267 0.267\n138 Tor,molitor 0.194 0.150 0.200 0.190\n139 Det,deer 0.182 0.125 0.167 0.192\n140 Det,cuyler 0.179 0.077 0.154 0.143\n141 Tor,borders 0.159 0.111 0.167 0.158\n142 Whi,grebeck 0.141 0.100 0.100 0.182\n143 Bal,gdavis 0.137 0.111 0.148 0.143\n144 Tex,dascenzo 0.128 0.091 0.182 0.091\n145 Min,leius 0.115 0.083 0.083 0.154\n145 Mil,reimer 0.115 0.083 0.083 0.154\n147 Tor,djackson 0.114 0.133 0.133 0.133\n148 Tex,gill 0.070 0.059 0.059 0.158\n149 Kan,gagne 0.042 0.095 0.095 0.095\n\n 0.74*1B + 1.28*2B + 1.64*3B + 2.25*HR + 0.53*BB + 0.34*(SB-2*CS)\nOPI = ----------------------------------------------------------------\n AB - H\n\nBA = H / AB\n\nSLG = (H + 2B + 2*3B + 3*HR) / AB\n\nOBA = (H + BB) / (AB + BB)", "\n And it has worked again. Pena went 3 for 3 last night against Colorado.\n", "\n\n\n\nI wouldn't give baserunning that much value.\n\nThe above effect is clear, but there are other effects as well. If\nOlerud hits a double, any runner on first will score; if Alomar legs an\nextra base onto a hit in the gap, the runner on first may need to hold\nat third. Thus Olerud's doubles have more advancement value than\nAlomar's. (Of course, Alomar is more likely to score after hitting a\ndouble.)\n\nAnother reason not to give too much extra value to baserunning is that\nthe runs created formulas work for very fast and very slow teams. No\nteam in the 1950's ran much, but some teams certainly had faster players\nthan others. Still, the current runs created formulas work just as well\nin the 1950's for all teams. \n\nBill James gives the 1955-1958 Senators as an example. They used Harmon\nKillebrew regularly as a pinch runner, and in 1957, stole 13 bases with\n38 times caught stealing. Yet they scored slightly more runs than\npredicted by Runs Created.\n\n\n", "\nDJ was a popular player in San Diego, Derek Bell was not faring well in the\nclubhouse at Toronto, so no matter how bad he looks now I still think it\nwas a steal for the Jays just from the perspective of team chemistry.\nNo statistic can describe it (sorry statheads) and since there are so many\nnew faces in the clubhouse I think the Jays are still trying to find it.\n\n(Insert the same comment into the Jack Morris v. Clemens WS Ring string)\n\nYet at first I was sad to see Derek go, still anticipating all of the talent\nthey raved about at the beginning of last season. I'm glad to see him\nfaring well for the Padres though.\n", "\nThat'll teach me not to qualify my statements...\n\n\nOK, something to shoot for. The Royals will score 531 runs or less\nthis season (although they just decided to get McRae out of the\nleadoff spot :-( )\n\nOf course, Valentine will throw this one back in my face when the\nRoyals even manage to outscore another AL team.\n\n\nSean\n", "\n\nThere are several reasons for this difference. The main reason is that\ngood hitters in their prime (such as Frank Thomas and Danny Tartabull)\nare rarely regular DH's, even if they can't field; it's more commonly a\nplace to put aging veterans.\n\nAnother use of the DH slot is to help a player come back from injury\nslowly, getting his bat in the lineup without forcing him to play in the\nfield. I would expect such players to hit worse as DH's than they did\nduring the rest of the season.\n\nA third factor is that most player who split time between DH and first\nor the outfield don't hit as well as DH's for some reason. Reggie\nJackson was a good example; in five years as a RF/DH for the Angels, he\nhit like the old Reggie when he was in right.\n\nThe second and third factors will be lost if players are considered by\ntheir primary position only; a player who plays 90 games in right and 60\nat DH will count only in the right fielders' averages.\n\n\nThis makes sense; you might also look at it another way. Although the\n*average* offensive performance of a DH may be lower than for a left\nfielder, the *replacement-level* offensive performance is certainly\nlower; if you are a left fielder but can't hit well enough to keep a job\nanywhere, then you certainly can't hit well enough to keep a job at DH.\n\n", "\nI couldn't agree more. The Jays have a lot of power in their line-up. \nSo far pitching has been the biggest problem. Maybe we can get Acker back? :-)\n\n\nOne incident that sticks out in my mind was when Derek Bell ran back out on\nto the feild after the Jays had won the division and all the players were\nback in the clubhouse. Bell ran around the field with his arms in the air,\nwaving a big towel over his head. He looked like a big jerk, especially\nwhen you consider he did not contribute much to the team over the whole\nseason. The next day, Winfield and Carter somehow got the keys to Bell's\nJeep and brought it out on to the feild before the game started. The stadium\nannouncer said that there was going to be a draw later in the game for Bell's\njeep. Bell really freaked out. I don't think Bell was to popular after that.\n\nI think that Jackson might be trying a little too hard right now. He's known\nfor being a great outfielder, and he's not the only Blue Jay who has been\nbooting balls and playing generally awful.\n\n\nandrew\n", "Detroit is a very disciplined team. There's a lot of Europeans\nin Detroit which would make the game fast, so Toronto would have\nto slow the game down, which means drawing penalties, as a last\nresort anyway. Toronto will be a good team as soon as they get\nmore good players. Toronto is just an average team, Detroit isn't\nBallard screwed Toronto when he was owner. Everyone knows that.\nand it's going to take time for Toronto to become a real force.\nI expect Gilmour to be burnt out next year. He can't pull the\nwhole team forever.", "} \n} >Oh, yea, and Chris Bosio pitched a NO-HITTER. One over the minimum, two\n} \n} Have there ever been any other no-hitters in Mariner history?\n\nRandy Johnson, June 2, 1990 against the Tigers.", "\nNESN owns the rights to Bruin telecasts. I suspect that NESN was only\ngoing to sell one telecast to ESPN (remember, ESPN only owns exclusive\nrights to the FINALS, not the entire playoffs). Since ESPN bought the\nSCA contract, there are less wrangles to untie with showing the Devils\nand Penguins.\n\n\nI think the same broadcast rights factor comes into it. Plus they\nhave no way of fitting western game times into their current schedule\nunless the NHL was willing to make a western club move up their game.\nI think the NHL got as much as it could when it shuffled the deck for ABC.\n\n\nSame exact coverage as last week: Pit-NJ game 4 in the east, Chi-StL\nin the central, LA-Cgy in the mountains and west.\n", "\nMinnesota Lumberjacks (thought of Bunyons - as in Paul, not sore feet or Babes\n\t\t\tas in Big Blue Ox)\nSeattle Rainiers (I think this was considered by the new ownership -- harkening\n back to AAA glory days -- and placating at least one local\n brewer :-)", "Hmmm...I also heard through the grapevine that Team Finland might try and\nleave a spot open for at least one NHLer. (Some guy named Sel{nne, ever\nhear of him? :) They might have to be content with Kurri, though, I hope. :)\n", "\n I really think that this is the key point. When I saw the incident on\nBaseball Tonight Sunday, I couldn't believe how far away from the plate\nGant went. Then he casually leaned against his bat. I don't blame the \numpire at all for telling the pitcher to pitch.\n\n The worst part of the whole incident was the Braves coming out onto the\nfield. What were they going to do, attack the umpire? The only people\nwho should've been out there were Cox and maybe the coaches, but NO players.\nI agree with the person who posted before that Cox should be suspended for\nhaving no control over his team.", "\nSo what does that have to do with RBI's? The team with the most RBI's\ndoesn't necessarily win the game.\n\nYes, runs are the most important statistice -- for a *team*. (So why does\nevery newspaper rank team offense by batting average?)\n\nBut for an individual player, runs and RBIs are context-dependent, and tell\nus very little about the player himself, and more about his teammates and\nposition in the batting order.", "\nMr. Bettman\tThe Guy in the Wrong Sport\nMr. Stein\tThe Guy Who Should Be In Charge But Isn't\n\nOf course, we also need new names for the individual awards, and other\nstuff like the President's Cup.\n\nPresident's Cup\t\tThe Trophy Given To the Best Regular-Season Team\nHart winner\t\tThe Most Valuable Player, chosen from the\n\t\t\t\tGuys in the Middle, the Guys on the\n\t\t\t\tRight, the Guys on the Left, the Guys\n\t\t\t\tBack There, and the Guy in the Net,\n\t\t\t\tthough typically given only to the\n\t\t\t\tGuys in the Middle and the Guys on \n\t\t\t\tthe Left and on the Right\nNorris winner\t\tThe Best Guy in the back; or, the Guy who was\n\t\t\t\tawarded for something even though he\n\t\t\t\tis not one of the Guys in the Middle\n\t\t\t\tor on the Left or the Right\n\n...ad nauseum.\n\n:-)\n\n--\n Keith Keller\t\t\t\tLET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!\n\t\t\t\t\t\tLET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!\n\tkkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu\t\tIVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!", "\n\n\n\nYou must not be old enough to remember the A's in KC!", "\nAccording to this morning's Post-Gazette:\n\nThe Pens will be carried by KDKA-Radio(1020 am), unless the Pirates\nare playing. When the Pirates play, the games will be carried by \nWDVE(102.5 fm). WDVE will carry 12 games, starting with tonight's\ngame.\n\nIn fact, after this season, KDKA will no longer be the flagship\nstation for the Pens. The Penguins and KBL have struck a new \ndeal regarding the TV and radio rights to the games. It seems\nmore than likely that WDVE will be the flagship radio station next \nseason. KBL will carry 62 games on tv, with 17 of the games to be \nsimulcast on KDKA-TV. The remaining 22 games, as well as some of the \nearly round playoff games, will be available by \"subscription tv\" only.\nTo receive the games, you'll have to pay a one time hook up fee, and\nthen a monthly fee of $11-12 dollars.\n\nAlso, under the new deal, there will no longer be radio/tv \nsimulcasts. There will be a TV broadcast team, and a radio\nbroadcast team. \n\nNo word on who the announcers will be. Mike Lange and Paul Steigerwald\nare both under contract with KDKA, but their contracts expire at the\nend of this season. KBL President Bill Craig said he'd like to hire\nLange and Steigerwald.", "So THAT'S what happened to Denny McLain. Sad.\n\nFor those of you who are interested, another baseball pariah,\nPete Rose, has a weekday radio show on the Sports and\nEntertainment national radio network. I think it's 3-5 PM\nlocally, 6-8 PM on the East coast.\n\nAnd actually, his on-air monologues about the baseball\nbusiness sounds a lot more reasonable and articulate\nthan what I hear from the Ray Knights of the world.\n--\nGreg \"Mockingbird\" Franklin \"Interracial mixing encompasses a lot lot more\nf67709907@ccit.arizona.edu than mingling between G7 races.\" -- robohen", "I Love it how all of these people are \"blaming\" the Phillies success \non a weak division. Why don't we look at the record of the teams in \neach division (READ: Inter-Divisional Play), we'll see that the East \nis really kicking the shit out of the West. I know it is early, but \nthat is all we have to go on. Atlanta is just so strong with their \n.188 BA, Cincinnati is 2-7 coming off a sweep at Veteran's Stadium in \nPhiladelphia, and Houston was swept in it's first three games by the \nPhillies in the Astrodome. That, my Western Division friends, shows \nthat the three best teams in your division may not be as strong as you \nthink!!\n\nPHILS ALL THE WAY IN '93\nBRAVES HIT LIKE A AAA CLUB\nREDS NEED MARGE", " Some comments deleted for bandwidth (God knows, we need it... :))\n\n \n Ok, Roger, here's a question for you. Say you are running an expansion\nteam. You don't HAVE a team at the moment, but the draft is coming up. Who\nare you going to pick, guys who have won the most WS rings, or guys who \nCOULD contribute the most to your team. Say the Reds were dumb enough to \nnot protect Larkin, and the Jays didn't protect Alfredo. Who would you\npick?\n\n (I can't believe I'm getting involved in this... :)\n\n John", "\n\nThe USA Today says \"late this year\". The question is, will hockey be moved to\nESPN2 permenantly, or will it be where they have a game of the week on\nESPN, and have a bunch of other games on ESPN2?\n\n\n-- \nMike Cornell | \"There are a great many people in the country today who,\nmac18@po.cwru.edu| through no fault of their own, are sane.\" -Monty Python", "\n\nThere is a fine line between \"getting players' input\" and \"knuckling\nunder to players' demands.\" A manager, much like a military officer,\nneeds to have his (her) players' complete obedience and respect during\na game. After the game, it's no big deal, but when there is no time \nto do more than react, players must trust the manager or the team often\nfalls apart (see: Boston Red Sox, ff. :) ) \n\nStrawberry's demeanor as represented by the media, often sounds like\ndemands. I suspect that a comment like \"I enjoy hitting fourth; I'm\nused to it\" would get pretty brutally misinterpreted by the media if\nit came from Strawberry. Russ Porter quoted Strawberry as saying,\n\"I feel more comfortable hitting cleanup and I think I perform best\nin that role.\" (Paraphrased by my memory and bias.) That seems like\na fairly non-petulant answer to what was almost certainly a question \nlike, \"How do you feel about being moved to the third spot in the order?\"\nA more media-sensitive player might answer \"The manager knows what he is\ndoing. If he thinks that batting me third will help the team, then I\nam all for it.\" We'd ignore that answer as brown stuff, so it seems a\nlittle bit of an overreaction to brand Darryl's response as petulant.\n\nPersonally, I think his argument is nonsense and that it really doesn't\nmatter much in which order the #2-5 players in the order are batted,\nexcept for personal stats. If I were Darryl, I'd probably answer that\nquestion, \"The number four spot gets a few more RBI opportunities and I get\npaid for RBIs. I think it is best for me to bat fourth, but I am willing\nto hit third if Tommy thinks it will benefit the team.\" or something like\nthat. It would be helpful at salary time--my RBIs were down because I was\nhitting third--and make him sound like a \"team\" player. Since Strawberry\nwill not likely go through arbitration, but use the free agent market for\nhis next contract, maybe that argument is useless, but it would help \nhis image with the media without appearing to be totally content-free.", "Well, the tentative rules, anyway. And, of course, since the season is\nnot entirely over, tentative entry form. But who cares? The real hockey\nseason is starting!!!!!\n\nHere's the deal: You email (preferably) or post your predictions, AND the\nnumber of games you think each series will go. Each round will be\nweighted, so that the Stanley Cup finals will be very important, but the\nearly rounds will still be important. Here is the scoring:\n\nPick 1st round winner, way off on games: 2 points\nPick 1st round winner, within one game: 3 points\nPick 1st round winner, pick # of games: 5 points\n\nPick 2nd round winner, way off on games: 3 points\nPick 2nd round winner, within one game: 4 points\nPick 2nd round winner, pick # of games: 6 points\n\nPick conference champ, way off on games: 5 points\nPick conference champ, within one game: 6 points\nPick conference champ, pick # of games: 9 points\n\nPick Stanley Cup champ, way off on games: 8 points\nPick Stanley Cup champ, within one game: 10 points\nPick Stanley Cup champ, pick # of games: 14 points\nPick loser in 7, series goes 7: 2 points\nPick loser in 7, series decided in Game 7, OT: 4 points\n(these last two are sympathy points, probably won't happen anyway)\n\nObviously, picking the Stanley Cup champion is important. I will do some\ntests to see if the format is fair, but probably I will be too lazy to\nmodify it, so the scoring will probably be like this. As for entry forms,\nwell, this post is getting too long, so see next post. \n\n--\n Keith Keller\t\t\t\tLET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!\n\t\t\t\t\t\tLET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!\n\tkkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu\t\tIVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!", "\nNo.\n\nIn what still, IMHO, ranks as the all-time greatest PR blunder (not to\nmention on-ice blunder) the Whalers ever committed, GM Eddie Johnston and\nCoach Rick Ley 'decided' that Francis was incapable as a leader and stripped\nhim of the Captain's \"C\" in December of 1990. The whole organization (read:\nEJ and Ley, and by default owner Richard Gordon because he was too much of\na dupe to know how much he was being blind-sided by EJ) dumped on Francis all\nseason, starting with refusing to sign him to a new contract, publicly \nhumiliating him, stripping him of the \"C\", and then trading him that Spring\nto the Penguins. Classy guy, that EJ.\n\nThe loss of Francis (and too a lesser extent, Ulf), was one of a series of\ndecimating player moves by EJ which stripped the personality and fan-awareness\nfrom the team that has put them in the precarious position they are in today.\n\n[Gratuitous good EJ note...he did preside over the organization when it\nacquired Verbeek, Cassels, Sanderson, Poulin, Nylander, etc. He stripped the\nroster but he DID lay a foundation.]", "\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nSoderstrom plays with Philly, but he doesn't have a moulded mask.\nHe's got the helmet and cage variety, in white. Or at least that's\nwhat he wore thirteen hours ago.\n", "above\nRobinson's\naverage.\nthe\neasliy\nREAL stats\nwater boy!\ntons\n\n\n\n\nCheck your facts....Andre dawson's career Slugging pct is in the .480's\nSo is Winny's I would like to see your facts. Winny has probably done \nbetter than 129 points above with a carrer SLG of 480. Check on more \nimportant stats. DEFENSE, and HEART. BATTING AVERAGE. RBI's", "\n\n >\tThe defenition of the Underdog is a team that has no talent and comes\n >out of nowhere to contend. The '69 Mets and '89 Orioles are prime examples,\n >not the Cubs. \n\n Sorry, but it is *virtually* impossible to win a division with \"no talent\"\n over 162 games.\n\nWell, with players, certainly. However, it is quite possible to win\nit all with no managerial talent. Cf. Blue Jays, 1992.\n\nDavid\n", "Some time back in this newsgroup, I seem to recall a thread about\npredicting the runs a given lineup of 9 batters could be expected\nto score given the appropriate statistical alphabet soup for these\nhitters (OBP, SLG, AVG, bat length, hat size, day-of-the-week,\nweather conditions, etc.). :-) Anyway, was I dreaming or is there\nsome such animal?\n\nMy apologies if this has been covered recently, I probably get to\nread 10% of the articles posted here. No time. \n\nMany thanks in advance,\n\nscotty\n\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n M. Scott Walsh scottwa@pogo.wv.tek.com\n Tektronix, Inc. Graphics Printing & Imaging Products IBD (503)685-3622", "Here are the NHL's alltime leaders in goals and points at the end of\nthe 1992-3 season. Again, much thanks to Joseph Achkar.\n\nCarl\n\nNotes: An active player is a player that has scored at least one\npoint the past season. The points leaders follow the goal leaders.\nIf you find any mistakes, please send me email.\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nAll time NHL leading goal scorers (* denotes active player):\n\n 1. Gordie Howe Det-Hfd 801\n 2. *Wayne Gretzky Edm-LA 765\n 3. Marcel Dionne Det-LA-NYR 731\n 4. Phil Esposito Chi-Bos-NYR 717\n 5. Bobby Hull Chi-Wpg-Hfd 610\n 6. *Mike Gartner Wsh-Min-NYR 583\n 7. Mike Bossy NYI 573\n 8. Guy Lafleur Mtl-NYR-Que 560\n 9. Johnny Bucyk Det-Bos 556\n 10. Maurice Richard Mtl 544\n 11. Stan Mikita Chi 541\n 12. Frank Mahovlich Tor-Det-Mtl 533\n 13. *Michel Goulet Que-Chi 532\n 14. *Jari Kurri Edm-LA 524\n 15. Bryan Trottier NYI-Pit 520\n 16. Gilbert Perreault Buf 512\n 17. Jean Beliveau Mtl 507\n 18. Lanny McDonald Tor-Col-Cgy 500\n 19. Jean Ratelle NYR-Bos 491\n 20. Norm Ullman Det-Tor 490\n 21. *Dino Ciccarelli Min-Wsh-Det 485\n 22. Darryl Sittler Tor-Phi-Det 484\n 23. *Mario Lemieux Pit 477\n 24. *Glenn Anderson Edm-Tor 459\n 25. Alex Delvecchio Det 456\n 26. *Mark Messier Edm-NYR 452\n 27. *Dale Hawerchuk Wpg-Buf 449\n 28. Rick Middleton NYR-Bos 448\n 29. *Steve Yzerman Det 445\n 30. *Peter Stastny Que-NJ 444\n 31. Rick Vaive Van-Tor-Chi-Buf 441\n 32. *Joe Mullen StL-Cgy-Pit 433\n 33. Yvan Cournoyer Mtl 428\n 34. *Dave Taylor LA 427\n 35. Steve Shutt Mtl-LA 424\n 36. *Denis Savard Chi-Mtl 423\n 37. Bill Barber Phi 420\n 38. *Brian Propp Phi-Bos-Min 413\n 39. Gary Unger Tor-Det-StL-Atl-LA-Edm 413\n 40. Rod Gilbert NYR 406\n 41. *Steve Larmer Chi 406\n 42. *John Ogrodnick Det-Que-NYR 402\n-----------------------------------------------------------------\n\nOther active players:\n *Bernie Nicholls LA-NYR-Edm-NJ 397\n *Pat LaFontaine NYI-Buf 386\n *Brian Bellows Min-Mtl 382\n *Dave Andreychuk Buf-Tor 373\n *Tim Kerr Phi-NYR-Hfd 370\n *Bobby Smith Min-Mtl 357\n *Brett Hull Cgy-StL 356\n *Luc Robitaille LA 353\n *Mike Foligno Det-Buf-Tor 351\n *Dave Christian Wpg-Wsh-Bos-StL-Chi 340\n *Paul Coffey Edm-Pit-LA-Det 330\n *Brent Sutter NYI-Chi 325\n *Pat Verbeek NJ-Hfd 318\n *Ron Francis Hfd-Pit 311\n *Cam Neely Van-Bos 292\n *Ray Bourque Bos 291\n *Bob Carpenter Wsh-NYR-LA-Bos-Tor 285\n *Brent Ashton Van-Col-NJ-Min-Que-Det-Wpg-Bos-Cgy 284\n *Doug Gilmour Stl-Cgy-Tor 277\n *Rick Tocchet Phi-Pit 277\n *Kevin Dineen Hfd-Phi 275\n *Tomas Sandstrom NYR-LA 273\n *Dale Hunter Que-Wsh 269\n *Ryan Walter Wsh-Mtl-Van 264\n *Brian Mullen Wpg-NYR-SJ-NYI 260\n *Ed Olczyk Chi-Tor-Wpg-NYR 260\n *Kirk Muller NJ-Mtl 258\n *Joe Nieuwendyk Cgy 257\n *Jimmy Carson LA-Edm-Det 254\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nAll time NHL scoring leaders (* denotes active player):\n\n 1. *Wayne Gretzky Edm-LA 765 1563 2328\n 2. Gordie Howe Det-Hfd 801 1049 1850\n 3. Marcel Dionne Det-LA-NYR 731 1040 1771\n 4. Phil Esposito Chi-Bos-NYR 717 873 1590\n 5. Stan Mikita Chi 541 926 1467\n 6. Bryan Trottier NYI-Pit 520 890 1410\n 7. Johnny Bucyk Det-Bos 556 813 1369\n 8. Guy Lafleur Mtl-NYR-Que 560 793 1353\n 9. Gilbert Perreault Buf 512 814 1326\n 10. Alex Delvecchio Det 456 825 1281\n 11. Jean Ratelle NYR-Bos 491 776 1267\n 12. *Mark Messier Edm-NYR 452 780 1232\n 13. Norm Ullman Det-Tor 490 739 1229\n 14. *Peter Stastny Que-NJ 444 777 1221\n 15. Jean Beliveau Mtl 507 712 1219\n 16. *Dale Hawerchuk Wpg-Buf 449 763 1212\n 17. Bobby Clarke Phi 358 852 1210\n 18. *Paul Coffey Edm-Pit-LA-Det 330 871 1201\n 19. *Denis Savard Chi-Mtl 423 769 1192\n 20. *Jari Kurri Edm-LA 524 666 1190\n 21. *Mario Lemieux Pit 477 697 1174\n 22. Bobby Hull Chi-Wpg-Hfd 610 560 1170\n 23. Bernie Federko StL 369 761 1130\n 24. Mike Bossy NYI 573 553 1126\n 25. *Michel Goulet Que-Chi 532 590 1122\n 26. Darryl Sittler Tor-Phi-Det 484 637 1121\n 27. *Mike Gartner Wsh-Min-NYR 583 524 1107\n 28. Frank Mahovlich Tor-Det-Mtl 533 570 1103\n 29. *Ray Bourque Bos 291 806 1099\n 30. *Dave Taylor LA 427 635 1062\n 31. Denis Potvin NYI 310 742 1052\n 32. Henri Richard Mtl 358 688 1046\n 33. *Steve Yzerman Det 445 595 1040\n 34. *Bobby Smith Min-Mtl 357 679 1036\n 35. Rod Gilbert NYR 406 615 1021\n 36. *Glenn Anderson Edm-Tor 459 559 1018\n 37. Lanny McDonald Tor-Col-Cgy 500 506 1006\n 38. Rick Middleton NYR-Bos 448 540 988\n 39. Dave Keon Tor-Hfd 396 590 986\n 40. *Ron Francis Hfd-Pit 311 675 986\n 41. *Bernie Nicholls LA-NYR-Edm-NJ 397 580 977\n 42. *Brian Propp Phi-Bos-Min 413 561 974\n 43. Andy Bathgate NYR-Tor-Det-Pit 349 624 973\n 44. Maurice Richard Mtl 544 421 965\n 45. Larry Robinson Mtl-LA 208 750 958\n 46. *Dino Ciccarelli Min-Wsh-Det 485 472 957\n 47. *Steve Larmer Chi 406 517 923\n 48. *Joe Mullen StL-Cgy-Pit 433 486 919\n 49. Bobby Orr Bos-Chi 270 645 915\n 50. Brad Park NYR-Bos-Det 213 683 896\n 51. Butch Goring LA-NYI-Bos 375 513 888\n 52. Bill Barber Phi 420 463 883\n 53. Dennis Maruk Cal-Cle-Wsh-Min 356 521 877\n 54. Ivan Boldirev Bos-Cal-Chi-Atl-Van-Det 361 505 866\n 55. Yvan Cournoyer Mtl 428 435 863\n 56. Dean Prentice NYR-Bos-Det-Pit-Min 391 469 860\n 57. Ted Lindsay Det-Chi 379 472 851\n 58. Tom Lysiak Atl-Chi 292 551 843\n 59. *Dale Hunter Que-Wsh 269 570 839\n 60. John Tonelli NYI-Cgy-LA-Chi-Que 325 511 836\n 61. Jacques Lemaire Mtl 366 469 835\n 62. *Larry Murphy LA-Wsh-Min-Pit 203 631 834\n 63. *John Ogrodnick Det-Que-NYR 402 425 827\n 64. *Doug Wilson Chi-SJ 237 590 827\n 65. *Doug Gilmour Stl-Cgy-Tor 277 548 825\n 66. Red Kelly Det-Tor 281 542 823\n 67. Pierre Larouche Pit-Mtl-Hfd-NYR 395 427 822\n 68. Bernie Geoffrion Mtl-NYR 393 429 822\n 69. Steve Shutt Mtl-LA 424 393 817\n 70. *Phil Housley Buf-Wpg 242 575 817\n 71. Wilf Paiment KC-Col-Tor-Que-NYR-Buf-Pit 356 458 814\n 72. Peter McNab Buf-Bos-Van-NJ 363 450 813\n 73. *Brian Bellows Min-Mtl 382 428 810\n 74. *Dave Andreychuk Buf-Tor 373 436 809\n 75. Pit Martin Det-Bos-Chi-Van 324 485 809\n 76. *Pat LaFontaine NYI-Buf 386 421 807\n 77. Ken Linesman Phi-Edm-Bos 256 551 807\n 78. Gary Unger Tor-Det-StL-Atl-LA-Edm 413 391 804\n 79. Ken Hodge,Sr Chi-Bos-NYR 328 472 800\n 80. *Neal Broten Min 249 547 796\n 81. Wayne Cashman Bos 277 516 793\n 82. Rick Vaive Van-Tor-Chi-Buf 441 347 788\n 83. Borje Salming Tor-Det 150 637 787\n 84. Jean Pronovost Pit-Atl-Wsh 391 383 774\n 85. Peter Mahovlich Det-Mtl-Pit 288 485 773\n 86. *Dave Christian Wpg-Wsh-Bos-StL-Chi 340 430 770\n 87. Rick Kehoe Tor-Pit 371 396 767\n 88. Rick MacLeish Phi-Hfd-Pit-Det 349 410 759\n 89. *Thomas Steen Wpg 240 511 751\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nOther active players:\n *Al MacInnis Cgy 185 555 740\n *Luc Robitaille LA 353 371 724\n *Mike Foligno Det-Buf-Tor 351 367 718\n *Brent Sutter NYI-Chi 325 389 714\n *Mark Howe Hfd-Phi-Det 192 520 712\n *Kirk Muller NJ-Mtl 258 433 691\n *Tim Kerr Phi-NYR-Hfd 370 304 674\n *Adam Oates Det-StL-Bos 167 490 657\n *Randy Carlyle Tor-Pit-Wpg 148 499 647\n *Ryan Walter Wsh-Mtl-Van 264 382 646\n *Pat Verbeek NJ-Hfd 318 313 631\n *Brent Ashton Van-Col-NJ-Min-Que-Det-Wpg-Bos-Cgy 284 345 629\n *Bob Carpenter Wsh-NYR-LA-Bos-Tor 285 337 622\n *Brian Mullen Wpg-NYR-SJ-NYI 260 362 622\n *Ed Olczyk Chi-Tor-Wpg-NYR 260 358 618\n *Kelly Kisio Det-NYR-SJ 215 402 617\n *Brett Hull Cgy-StL 356 247 603\n *Rick Tocchet Phi-Pit 277 324 601\n *Dan Quinn Cgy-Pit-Van-StL-Phi-Min 232 367 599\n *Scott Stevens Wsh-StL-NJ 132 462 594\n *Tomas Sandstrom NYR-LA 273 320 593\n *Tom Fergus Bos-Tor-Van 235 346 581\n *Dave Babych Wpg-Hfd-Van 120 460 580\n *Mike Ridley NYR-Wsh 230 348 578\n *Laurie Boschman Tor-Edm-Wpg-NJ-Ott 225 350 575\n *Keith Acton Mtl-Min-Edm-Phi 224 350 574\n *Murray Craven Det-Phi-Hfd 205 365 570\n *Kevin Dineen Hfd-Phi 275 290 565\n *Rob Ramage Col-StL-Cgy-Tor-Min-TB 139 423 562\n *Mike Krushelnyski Bos-Edm-LA-Tor 234 319 553\n *Gary Suter Cgy 124 428 552\n *Pierre Turgeon Buf-NYI 218 324 542\n *Troy Murray Chi-Wpg 217 324 541\n *Cam Neely Van-Bos 292 241 533\n *Geoff Courtnall Bos-Edm-Wsh-StL-Van 246 274 520\n *Vincent Damphousse Tor-Edm-Mtl 195 320 515\n *Jimmy Carson LA-Edm-Det 254 259 513\n *Peter Zezel Phi-StL-Wsh-Tor 182 328 510\n *Guy Carbonneau Mtl 207 302 509\n *Mark Osborne Det-NYR-Tor-Wpg 202 301 503\n *Chris Chelios Mtl-Chi 108 394 502\n *Dave Poulin Phi-Bos 195 301 496\n *Ray Ferraro Hfd-NYI 230 263 493\n *Russ Courtnall Tor-Mtl-Min 208 284 492\n *Joe Nieuwendyk Cgy 257 234 491\n *John MacLean NJ 241 248 489", "As the subject suggests the Flames were not impressive this afternoon,\ndropping a 6-3 decision to the LA Kings. Most of the Flames neglected\nto show up, especially in their own zone, as the Kings hit at least\nfive posts! The Flames best line was probably\nSkrudland-Paslawski-Berube (which tells how bad the Flames were). Gary\nSuter scored a great goal (in fact all three Flame goals were scored\nby D-men - Yawney and Dahlquist getting the others), but also made\nsome bonehead plays. For the Kings, Pat Conacher was especially\nimpressive. \n\nThe games was VERY chippy, as Dan Mirouelli lost control early and\nnever recovered it; there were high-sticks, cross-checks, punches,\nhits from behind. Fleury got a game misconduct for rubbing out Warren\nRychel from behind. Flames dominated the game physically, but failed\nto take advantage due to horrendous defensive lapses (I don't think\nVernon can be blamed for any of the goals). Calgary went with 7 D-men,\nas Roger Johansson played LW; he looked lost IMHO - I hope King\ninserts Chris Lindbergh, Paul Kruse, or Sergei Makarov for Wednesday's\ngame. Gretzky left the game in the 2nd period with a charley-horse; no\nidea how serious - he didn't return.\n\nI still think the Flames should win this series, but they better\nbuckle down.", "\n\nThe umps saw the weekend boxscores, too. They knew the pitchers needed\nsome help or they would be watching the sunrise. :)", "\n \n \nWake up and smell the Norris!! Rick Zombo was traded to the Blues for Vince\nRiendo (sp?) last season. ", "\nLet's be careful here. If players' performance was completely random\nin (Clutch-No Clutch), then you would still expect some players to be\ngood in the clutch every year and some to be not-so-good every year.\nWith two years worth of data, you'd have 1/4 of the players good each\nyear, 1/4 bad each year, and 1/2 would have one good and one bad year.\nWe have 96 players for 5 years ('84-'88). Just flipping a coin, you'd\nexpect 3 players to be good all 5 years and 3 to be bad every year.\nThis is what we actually get--\n\nNo. of good years 0 1 2 3 4 5\nClutch performers 4 10 37 24 18 3\nCoin flip (random) 3 15 30 30 15 3\n\nEssentially the distribution of clutch performers by number of years\nof good performance is the same as what you would get if the process\nleading to deviations from non-clutch performance was completely random.\nIf there was anything to clutch hitting (at least in this definition)\nthat had any predictive capability, you expect to see the number of\nplayers at the ends to be much larger than that predicted by flipping\na coin. Further, if you limit yourself to players who were a lot above\nor below average in clutch situations (say, 1 standard deviation from \nthe mean) more than one year, the random explanation still looks good.\nIn the four years ('84-'87) that I looked at the data from Elias, there\nwere 79 (29) players with a minimum of 25 (50) at bats in clutch \nsituations that were 1 sigma from the mean two different years. Of\nthose 79 (29) players, 38 (14) of them changed sign between the two\nyears. In other words, they were great clutch hitters one year and\nreally horrible the other year. If it was just a random process, \nyou'd expect those numbers to be 39.5 (14.5). \n\nEverything that's been measured about clutch hitting over a period\nof years that could be used to predict any ability with any \nproposed definition has looked like a random process (with the \ncaveat that there may be something related to platoon advantage\nthat could be dragged out of the data--e.g., John Lowenstein \nprobably never had a \"clutch\" AB against a left-handed pitcher,\nbut he might well have had some in blowouts, so that there would\nbe a bias since his clutch ABs would be more geared to his \nplatoon advantage). This is not a subject that has been glanced\nat casually. A lot of people have put a lot of effort into \nstudying it and every one of them, with the exception of the\nElias study, has been unable to find anything that would allow\nyou to predict how someone will do in clutch situations better\nthan flipping a coin. (Self-serving plug follows: some of the\nflaws in the Elias study are discussed in my paper in the forth-\ncoming SABR book, _The Perfect Game_, by Taylor Publishing. The\nauthors are supposed to get a slice of the advance, so go bug\nyour local bookstores now, and maybe I can get enough to take my\nwife to dinner once.:-)\n\nHarold", "KC(?) news was doing a report on that. They said that McRae is\nreally a batting coach and not a manager. But for some reason\nhe took the job. Whatever the reason, the Royals need a new\nmanager now...while it is too late.", "Disclaimer -- This is for fun.\n\nIn my computerized baseball game, I keep track of a category called\n\"stolen hits\", defined as a play made that \"an average fielder would not\nmake with average effort.\" Using the 1992 Defensive Averages posted\nby Sherri Nichols (Thanks Sherri!), I've figured out some defensive stats\nfor the second basemen. Hits Stolen have been redefined as \"Plays Kurt\nStillwell would not have made.\"\n\nOK, I realize that's unfair. Kurt's probably the victim of pitching staff,\nfluke shots, and a monster park factor. But let's put it this way: If we\nreplaced every second baseman in the NL with someone with Kurt's 57.6% out\nmaking ability, how many extra hits would go by?\n\nTo try and correlate it to reality a little more, I've calculated Net\nHits Stolen, based on the number of outs made compared to what a league\naverage fielder would make. By the same method I've calculated Net Double\nPlays, and Net Extra Bases (doubles and triples let by).\n\nFinally, I throw all this into a a formula I call Defensive Contribution, or\nDCON :->. Basically, it represents the defensive contribution of a player.\nI add this number to OPS to get DOPS (Defense + Onbase Plus Slug), which\nshould represent the player's total contribution to the team. So don't\ntake it too seriously. The formula for DCON appears at the end of this\narticle.\n\nThe short version -- definition of terms\nHS -- Hits Stolen -- Extra outs compared to Kurt Stillwell\nNHS -- Net Hits Stolen -- Extra outs compared to average fielder\nNDP -- Net Double Plays -- Extra double plays turned compared to avg fielder\nNEB -- Net Extra Bases -- Extra bases prevented compared to avg. fielder\nDCON -- Defensive Contribution -- bases and hits prevented, as a rate.\nDOPS -- DCON + OPS -- quick & dirty measure of player's total contribution.\n\nNational League\n\nname HS NHS NDP NEB DCON DOPS\nAlicea, L. 50 21 2 -1 .160 .865\nSandberg, R. 108 42 1 1 .134 1.015\nThompson, R. 65 20 5 -1 .104 .852\nLind, J. 66 8 -2 1 .027 .571\nDoran, B. 31 -1 4 0 .014 .705\nDeShields, D. 51 1 -2 1 -.002 .755\nHarris, L. 25 -4 0 1 -.019 .602\nLemke, M. 43 -1 -5 -5 -.038 .573\nMorandini, M. 37 -9 -6 0 -.069 .580\nRandolph, W. 13 -16 3 -1 -.088 .582\nBiggio, C. 34 -26 -4 0 -.091 .656\nStillwell, K. 0 -43 -3 -1 -.236 .336\n\nOrdered by DOPS\n\n1.015 Sandberg\n .865 Alicea\n .852 Thompson\n .755 DeShields\n .705 Doran\n .678 *NL Average*\n .656 Biggio\n .602 Harris\n .582 Randolph\n .580 Morandini\n .573 Lemke\n .571 Lind\n .336 Stillwell\n\nAmerican League\n---------------\n\nname HS NHS NDP NEB DCON DOPS\nFletcher, S. 59 18 5 1 .116 .811\nReed, J. 83 17 3 1 .071 .708\nRipken, B. 56 9 -1 -1 .044 .631\nBaerga, C. 67 0 10 0 .029 .838\nBlankenship, L. 34 2 2 1 .023 .757\nMiller, K. 34 -4 1 -1 -.016 .725\nAlomar, R. 62 4 -9 -2 -.020 .812\nKnoblauch, C. 50 -13 7 -3 -.024 .718\nBordick, M. 37 -4 -2 -1 -.025 .704\nKelly, P. 42 -1 -5 -1 -.039 .636\nWhitaker, L. 40 -8 -1 -2 -.041 .806\nReynolds, H. 47 -6 -5 1 -.043 .603\nSax, S. 56 -6 -9 -1 -.052 .555\nSojo, L. 28 -11 -3 0 -.075 .602\n\nOrder by DOPS\n\n.838 Baerga\n.812 Alomar\n.811 Fletcher\n.806 Whitaker\n.757 Blankenship\n.725 Miller\n.718 Knoblauch\n.708 Reed\n.704 Bordick\n.691 *AL Average*\n.636 Kelly\n.631 Ripken\n.603 Reynolds\n.602 Sojo\n.555 Sax\n\nMore discussion --\n\nDCON formula: ((NHS + NDP)/PA) + ((NHS + NDP + NEB)/AB)\nWhy such a bizzare formula? Basically, it's designed to be added into the\nOPS, with the idea that \"a run prevented is as important as a run scored\".\nThe extra outs are factored into OBP, while the extra bases removed are \nfactored into SLG. That's why I used PA and AB as the divisors.\n\nFor more discussion see the post on Hits Stolen -- First Base 1992\n-- \nDale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Baseball fanatic", "Which GERMAN satellite channels will show the World Championship action\nfrom Dusseldorf & Munich?\nSomeone please tell me (must be able to root for the Red Machine)!\n\nThank you", "Well, I got the scores for Sat's games...\n\nAHL PLAYOFF SCORES-- FIRST ROUND\t(home team in CAPS)\n================================\n\t\t\nGAMES PLAYED ON SAT, 4/24\n-------------------------\nBALTIMORE 3\tBinghamton 1\nROCHESTER 3\tUtica 2\nSPRINGFIELD 4\tProvidence 3\n\t\t\n===================================================================\nSERIES STATI (plural of status? :)\n----------------------------------\nAdirondack defeated CDI, 4-0\nSpringfield defeated Providence, 4-2\nBinghamton tied w/Baltimore, 2-2\nRochester defeated Utica, 4-1\nSt John's leads Moncton, 3-1\nCape Breton defeated Fredericton, 4-1", "\nI thought the red light went on...thus, in the review, the presumption\nwould be to find conclusive evidence that the puck did not go in the\nnet...from the replays I say, even from the rear, the evidence wasn't\nconclusive that the puck was in or out...in my opinion...", "MLB Standings and Scores for Satruday, April 17th, 1993\n\t (including yesterday's games)\n\nNATIONAL WEST\t Won Lost Pct. GB Last 10 Streak Home Road\nSan Francisco Giants 07 04 .636 -- 6-4 Won 2 04-01 03-03\nHouston Astros 06 04 .600 0.5 6-4 Won 1 01-03 05-01\nAtlanta Braves 06 06 .500 1.5 5-5 Lost 3 04-03 03-02\nLos Angeles Dodgers 04 07 .364 3.0 4-6 Won 1 01-03 03-04\nColorado Rockies 03 06 .333 3.0 3-6 Lost 1 03-03 00-03\nSan Diego Padres 03 07 .300 3.5 3-7 Won 1 01-04 02-03\nCincinnati Reds 02 08 .200 4.5 2-8 Lost 4 01-03 01-05\n\nNATIONAL EAST\nPhiladelphia Phillies 08 02 .800 -- 8-2 Lost 1 05-01 03-01\nPittsburgh Pirates 07 03 .700 1.0 7-3 Lost 1 03-02 04-01\nSt. Louis Cardinals 07 03 .700 1.0 7-3 Lost 1 04-02 03-01\nNew York Mets 05 04 .556 2.5 5-4 Won 1 02-03 03-01\nChicago Cubs 05 05 .500 3.0 5-5 Won 2 02-02 03-03\nMontreal Expos 05 05 .500 3.0 5-5 Won 2 02-02 03-03\nFlorida Marlins 03 07 .300 5.0 3-7 Lost 1 02-04 01-03\n\n\nAMERICAN WEST Won Lost Pct. GB Last 10 Streak Home Road\nTexas Rangers 06 03 .667 -- 6-3 Lost 2 04-02 02-01\nCalifornia Angels 05 03 .625 0.5 5-3 Lost 1 03-02 02-01\nChicago White Sox 05 04 .556 1.0 5-4 Won 2 02-03 03-01\nMinnesota Twins 05 04 .556 1.0 5-4 Won 1 02-02 03-02\nOakland Athletics 04 04 .500 1.5 4-4 Lost 2 04-02 00-02\nSeattle Mariners 04 05 .444 2.0 4-5 Lost 2 03-02 01-03\nKansas City Royals 02 08 .200 4.5 2-8 Lost 1 01-05 01-03\n\nAMERICAN EAST\nBoston Red Sox 07 03 .700 -- 7-3 Lost 1 03-01 04-02\nNew York Yankees 06 04 .600 1.0 6-4 Won 1 03-01 03-03\nDetroit Tigers 05 04 .556 1.5 5-4 Won 3 03-00 02-04\nToronto Blue Jays 05 04 .556 1.5 5-4 Lost 1 04-02 01-02\nCleveland Indians 04 06 .400 3.0 4-6 Won 1 03-01 01-05\nBaltimore Orioles 03 06 .333 3.5 3-6 Won 2 01-02 02-04\nMilwaukee Brewers 02 05 .286 3.5 2-5 Lost 4 00-02 02-03\n\n\n\t\t\t YESTERDAY'S SCORES\n (IDLE teams listed in alphabetical order)\n\nNATIONAL LEAGUE\t\t\t\tAMERICAN LEAGUE\n\nNew York Mets\t\t3\t\tChicago White Sox\t9\nCincinnati Reds\t\t1\t\tBoston Red Sox\t\t4\n\nFlorida Marlins\t\t3\t\tCalifornia Angels\t1\nHouston Astros\t\t9\t\tBaltimore Orioles\t4\n\nPhiladelphia Phillies\t1\t\tKansas City Royals\t3\nChicago Cubs\t\t3\t\tMinnesota Twins\t\t4 (10)\n\nColorado Rockies\t2\t\tSeattle Mariners\t0\nMontreal Expos\t\t3\t\tDetroit Tigers\t\t5\n\nPittsburgh Pirates\t4\t\tToronto Blue Jays\t1\nLos Angeles Dodgers\t7\t\tCleveland Indians 13\n\nAtlanta Braves\t\t0\t\tTexas Rangers\t\t3\nSan Francisco Giants\t1\t\tNew York Yankees\t5\n\nSt. Louis Cardinals\t1\t\tOakland Athletics PPD\nSan Diego Padres\t5\t\tMilwaukee Brewers RAIN\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nJoseph Hernandez | RAMS | | /.\\ ******* _|_|_ / | LAKERS\njtchern@ocf.Berkeley.EDU | KINGS | |__ | | DODGERS _|_|_ | | RAIDERS\njtcent@soda.Berkeley.EDU | ANGELS |____||_|_| ******* | | |___| CLIPPERS", "\n\n\nYou haven't been facing major league pitching. \n\n Maybe more... you have to be good at the plate, and most\n\nSTATS did a little study in the 1993 Scoreboard book entitled \"Can\nyou hit sacrifice flies on purpose?\" A summary of the findings:\n\nOver the 5 year period, sac-fly type fly balls were produced 17.6\npercent of the time in situations where a sac fly was useful, and \n17.7 percent of the time when a sac fly wasn't useful.\n\nThey looked at the leaders in sac flies, and found that the leaders\nin sac flies - in other words, the guys you would expect to be good\nat it it - hit sac fly type fly balls only 3% more often when they\nneeded to - a difference way too small to be the result of a skill.\nEssentially, the players who hit a lot of sac flies seem to do\nso because they hit hit sac fly type flies often, with and without\na runner on third.\n\nSTATS concludes \"So it appears conclusive that hitters cannot hit\nsacrifice flies on purpose - even if they practice in the bATTING\ncage.\"", "Well put, Jason. I am not from Wisconsin, but I have close relatives who\nlive in Port Washington (about 30 minutes north of Milwaukee), I visit the\ncity regularly, and I have been in the Bradley four times to see the Admirals\nplay and the NCAA Hockey Championships. It is a beautiful building. The\nPettits and the city like to promote it as the best facility for hockey in\nNorth America.\nAs to what will happen with the Admirals if Milwaukee does acquire a\nfranchise, word is the team will move to Green Bay and play in the Brown\nCounty Arena.\nOnce again, the Admirals are an independent franchise, and the people of\nMilwaukee have been supporting them well. The games I have been to have seen\ncrowds anywhere from 10,000 to 13,000, which are numbers some NHL teams (i.e.\nthe Islanders, Hartford, New Jersey) would be envious of having on some nights.\nPlus the fact that the city is able to support a minor league franchise without\nthe glamour of having an NHL club affiliated to it is testimony to the amount\nof hockey interest exists in the city.\n\nSincerely,\n\nMartin Hill, Rt. 2, Box 155B, Sault Ste. Marie, MI (Home of LSSU: Go Lakers!)", "TWINS UPDATE -- Posted April 22, 1993 \n---------------------------------------------\nThe Twins defeated the Milwaukee Brewers 5-4 today to conclude a three game\nhomestand with the Brew crew. The Twins took two of three games in the series,\nwith scores as follows:\n\n Tuesday April 20th MN 10\n Mil 0\n Winning Pitcher Banks (2-0) \n\n Wednesday April 21st Mil 10 (10)\n MN 8\n LP - Hartley ( 0-1 )\n\n Thursday April 22nd MN 5\n Mil 4\n WP - Deshaies (4-0)\n Sa - Aguilera\n\nHighlight/Low Lights of the Series:\n------------------------------------\nJim Deshaies continues to be the surprise of not only the Twins, but of\nthe American League as well. Going into today's game, Deshaies was 3-0\nwith a 1.74 ERA. Deshaies allowed 2 Earned runs in 6 2/3 innings, meaning\nhis ERA will climb slightly. Deshaies, who came to MN via a trade with\nPhiladelphia which sent David West there, continues to make Andy MacPhail\nlook like a true genius.\n\nWillie Banks has put together two solid starts for the Twins, going 6.1 innings\non Monday while coasting on solid Twins hitting. Deshaies and Banks now \ncombine for 6 of the Twins eight victories, while Tapani/Mahomes/Erickson are\n0-5.\n\nWednesday's game marked the first opposing left-handed starting pitcher for the\nTwins this year (Rickey Bones). The Twins teed off against both him and \nsubsequent relief, including a Grand Slam by Kent Hrbek which pushed the lead\nto 7-3. The Twins pitching staff could not hold the lead, though, allowing\n4 walks in the 7th inning, 2 of which scored and coming with bases loaded.\nTapani gave up one walk before being relieved, Guthrie two walks, and Mike\nHartley one walk before the inning was over. This tied the game at 7-7, and\nthe Brew Crew rocked Mike Hartley for 3 runs in the top of the tenth to win\nit.\n\nAguilera continues to be shaky against the Brew Crew. 6 of 20 career blown\nsaves have come against the Brew Crew, and today's game was shaky as well.\nComing into the ninth with a 5-2 lead, Aguilera gave up a solo HR to Vaughn,\nthen hits to Darryl Hamilton and Dickie Thon before finally retiring the\nside. Once again, the tying run made it to second base on Aggie.\nWeak hearted Twins fans are advised not to watch Aggie in the ninth.\n\nGeneral News\n-------------------------------------\nPedro Munoz continues to improve as an outfielder, playing in left field on\nTuesday's game. He continues to bat weakly against right handed pitching,\nthough, which has limited his playing time. Gene Larkin and JT Bruett(former\nGopher) have been playing right field, as both can bat left handed.\n\nThe Twins begin a three game series with the Detroit Tigers tomorrow. Starting\nPitching is tentatively scheduled as Erickson, Mahomes, Banks. The Detroit\nTigers have had TWO 20 run games in the last ten days, and should provide \nquite a challenge to the young MN pitching staff.\n\nThe Twins have 9 HR's this year, three each from Puckett, Hrbek, and Winfield,\nthe third, fourth, and fifth batters, respectively.\n\nBrian Harper pegged 4 of the first 6 baserunners attempting to steal second\nthis year, and shows much improvement in this category.\n\nJim Deshaies has three pick-offs and one balk this year. Some say he \nhas the best 1st base move in baseball. This move has enabled him to pitch\nout of some tight early jams, and has certainly contributed to his 4-0 \nstart. Watch to see if umpiring crews began calling the balk more tightly\nin response to opposing team complaints about his leg kicking behind the\nrubber on the pick-off move.\n\n\nCurrent MLB AL West Standings( from Joesph Hernandez, jtchern@ocb.berkeley.edu )", "\nI'd like to add that I think Canadian hockey fans like Don because his kind of hockey (the hockey he promotes in his TV appearances) is the kind that they think used to get played in the old 6 team NHL. So there's a kind of nostagia for the old days, before expansion, the Soviet series, Gretzky and even Bobby Orr, when guys weren't afraid to take a hit, nobody floated and defensemen played defence. Who cares that that probably never really existed, the myth is still around in Canada and all the European in\n\n\n\nfluence on the game has diminished it in some people's eyes.\n\nPersonally, I'd like to add before I get flamed, I love the fast-paced \"European\" game and think Don Cherry is a bit of an idiot. I have to say that I missed him when I was living in the States, though. He is entertaining, even if you end up throwing your popcorn at the screen when he's on.\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n \nI stand by all the misstatements that I've made.\n\t\t-- Vice President Dan Quayle to Sam Donaldson, 8/17/89", "\n\tYeah, maybe that is more likely. But from the Mariners-Tigers \nseries, it seems like every time there are base runners, the pitchers \nseem to purposely pitch around him or give him a free pass. The \nfunny thing was that Griffey was struggling up until the last game of the\nfour game series if I remember correctly.\n\n- Chung Yang", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\nBeleive it or not: NY state once considered eliminating tolls for motor-\ncycles based simply on the fact that motos clog up toll booths. But then\nMario realized the foolishness of trading a few hundred K $`s a year for\nsome relief in traffic congestion.\n\nToo bad he won`t take that Sumpreme Court Justice job - I thought we might\nbe rid of him forever.", "\nWhatever you say. I think it's just 12 games into the season myself, so\nI'm going to wait a bit before calling names.\n\n\nI expect that Dave Otto will be a really bad pitcher, and I have no\nidea why Simmons ever wanted him. On the other hand, I expect him to\nrelease Otto if he doesn't turn things around pretty fast. (BTW,\nOtto's game score for that 0 IP stinker was only 22, which points out\na problem with the method since Otto's performance was infinitely bad,\nand excruciatingly prolonged.)\n\n\nI think Merced's rookie year was a bit flukey, but aren't you willing to\ngive him some more at bats (and Tomlin a few more starts) before acting\nso gloomy?\n\n\nNo he didn't. Walk is a time bomb. He has no stuff whatsoever, and when\nthe league finally realizes this, it won't be pretty at all.\n\n\nDon't be so fast. Doughty is the guy who signed Steve Buechele, which\nwas a move that threatened to bury Kevin Young in the minors.\nMeanwhile, I'm not sure whether Doughty or Simmons signed Martin as a\nsix-year free agent before the 1992 season.\n\n\nTwice through the rotation, and you've given up? Yikes.\n\n\nBut so has his age, at least in baseball terms. The useful half-life\nof a 34- year-old injury-prone catcher can't be much longer than a year.\n\n\nBut he wanted to be a Dodger, and felt he had something to prove after his\ndisastrous 1992. I don't think there was any chance for the Bucs to sign\nhim.\n\n\nHe certainly wasn't last year.\n\n\nHey, that's the \"Skates Smith\" package deal. Anybody who acquires\nLonnie for his defense or base-running (particularly at this stage) is\na real weirdo.\n\n\nIf that's the goal of the team ownership, than I don't see why Sauer\ngets a zero for making his boss happy. I don't know what he has or\nhasn't said about revenue sharing, so I can't comment there.\n\n\nIt's annoying, but since Leyland seems to have been pushing for them\nto retain Jeff King, it was probably unavoidable. Meanwhile, I think\nbigger accomplishments of Simmons' tenure were getting some value for\nJohn Smiley, not trading real prospects for veterans down the stretch\nlast year, drafting well in 1992, letting the rookies show something\nin 1993. Foley, Smith, and Candelaria were acquired to be replacement\nparts, which means that even if fail it hasn't done serious damage to\nthe Bucs' future.\n\n\nDoes this mean that the Bucs lost the initial arbitration case? I\nnever heard the outcome of this. When will the final verdict be in on\nthis?\n\n\nI'm not sure who was the idiot in this case, so I don't know who to\nblame. It might have been Doug Danforth, after all. In fact, I\n*seriously* suspect it was Doug Danforth, who has shown his\nwillingness to call the shots at exactly those moments when the gun is\npointed at his feet.\n\n(btw--I've wondered whether my latest posts have been getting\noff-site, so if somebody known to impersonate e.e. cummings can see\nthis, would he drop me a short note?)", "[snip]\n[stats deleted - we've all seen them by now]\n\nI nominate this last bit for \"Anti-Stathead Quote of the Week\".\n\nAlomar only has a 50 point advantage in the most important offensive\ncategory, while Baerga, who studied in the Joe Carter School of Out-Burning,\nhas more impressive mediot stats, largely due to opportunities rather\nthan quality.\n\nThe lines are fairly close in value, but edge to Alomar.\n\nNow Baerga ain't chopped liver, but Alomar is still the man to beat among\nAL second basemen...\n\n--Craig", "New Jersey 1 0 2--3\nPittsburgh 2 3 1--6\nFirst period\n 1, Pittsburgh, Tocchet 1 (Stevens, Lemieux) pp, 1:40.\n 2, New Jersey, Barr 1 (Guerin, Holik) 6:24.\n 3, Pittsburgh, Lemieux 1 (Jagr, Ramsey) 9:33.\nSecond period\n 4, Pittsburgh, Lemieux 2 (Stevens, Murphy) pp, 4:11.\n 5, Pittsburgh, Francis 1 (Ramsey, Mullen) 12:57.\n 6, Pittsburgh, Tippett 1 (Jagr, McEachern) 17:13.\nThird period\n 7, Pittsburgh, Jagr 1 (Samuelsson, Lemieux) pp, 8:35.\n 8, New Jersey, Stevens 1 (Niedermayer, Driver) pp, 11:48.\n 9, New Jersey, Stevens 2 (Semak, Niedermayer) 18:56.\n\nPittsburgh: 6 Power play: 8-3\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nFrancis 1 0 1\nJagr 1 2 3\nLemieux 2 2 4\nMcEachern 0 1 1\nMullen 0 1 1\nMurphy 0 1 1\nRamsey 0 2 2\nSamuelsson 0 1 1\nStevens 0 2 2\nTippett 1 0 1\nTocchet 1 0 1\n\nNew Jersey: 3 Power play: 8-1\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nBarr 1 0 1\nDriver 0 1 1\nGuerin 0 1 1\nHolik 0 1 1\nNiedermayer 0 2 2\nSemak 0 1 1\nStevens 2 0 2\n\n-----------------------------------------\nSt Louis 0 2 2--4\nChicago 1 2 0--3\nFirst period\n 1, Chicago, Noonan 1 (Larmer, Brown) 8:17.\nSecond period\n 2, St Louis, Brown 1 (Shanahan, Emerson) 3:12.\n 3, Chicago, Noonan 2 (Roenick, Chelios) pp, 5:40.\n 4, Chicago, Noonan 3 (Matteau, Sutter) 8:51.\n 5, St Louis, Felsner 1 (McRae, Janney) 12:49.\nThird period\n 6, St Louis, Shanahan 1 (Brown, Hull) pp, 11:12.\n 7, St Louis, Hull 1 (Emerson, Brown) pp, 11:29.\n\nSt Louis: 4 Power play: 4-2\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nBrown 1 2 3\nEmerson 0 2 2\nFelsner 1 0 1\nHull 1 1 2\nJanney 0 1 1\nMcRae 0 1 1\nShanahan 1 1 2\n\nChicago: 3 Power play: 7-1\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nBrown 0 1 1\nChelios 0 1 1\nLarmer 0 1 1\nMatteau 0 1 1\nNoonan 3 0 3\nRoenick 0 1 1\nSutter 0 1 1\n\n-----------------------------------------\nLos Angeles 1 3 2--6\nCalgary 0 1 2--3\nFirst period\n 1, Los Angeles, Sydor 1 (Gretzky, Sandstrom) 0:16.\nSecond period\n 2, Calgary, Suter 1 (Fleury) sh, 2:48.\n 3, Los Angeles, Carson 1 (Shuchuk, Sydor) pp, 3:13.\n 4, Los Angeles, Huddy 1 (Taylor, Rychel) 3:37.\n 5, Los Angeles, McSorley 1 (unassisted) 6:36.\nThird period\n 6, Los Angeles, Millen 1 (Granato, Donnelly) 1:06.\n 7, Calgary, Dahlquist 1 (Otto) 4:23.\n 8, Calgary, Yawney 1 (MacInnis, Reichel) 8:47.\n 9, Los Angeles, Carson 2 (Sandstrom, Robitaille) pp, 10:32.\n\nLos Angeles: 6 Power play: 10-2\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nCarson 2 0 2\nDonnelly 0 1 1\nGranato 0 1 1\nGretzky 0 1 1\nHuddy 1 0 1\nMcSorley 1 0 1\nMillen 1 0 1\nRobitaille 0 1 1\nRychel 0 1 1\nSandstrom 0 2 2\nShuchuk 0 1 1\nSydor 1 1 2\nTaylor 0 1 1\n\nCalgary: 3 Power play: 8-0 Special goals: sh: 1 Total: 1\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nDahlquist 1 0 1\nFleury 0 1 1\nMacInnis 0 1 1\nOtto 0 1 1\nReichel 0 1 1\nSuter 1 0 1\nYawney 1 0 1\n\n-----------------------------------------\nFirst period\n 1, NY Islanders, Ferraro 1 (Flatley, Vaske) 5:56.\nSecond period\n No scoring.\nThird period\n 2, Washington, Hunter 1 (Elynuik, Krygier) 3:18.\n 3, Washington, Hunter 2 (Khristich, Johansson) pp, 7:01.\n 4, Washington, Khristich 1 (Pivonka, Johansson) pp, 15:25.\n\nWashington: 3 Power play: 5-2\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nElynuik 0 1 1\nHunter 2 0 2\nJohansson 0 2 2\nKhristich 1 1 2\nKrygier 0 1 1\nPivonka 0 1 1\n\nNY Islanders: 1 Power play: 5-0\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nFerraro 1 0 1\nFlatley 0 1 1\nVaske 0 1 1\n\n-----------------------------------------\nBuffalo 2 1 1 1--5\nBoston 0 2 2 0--4\nFirst period\n 1, Buffalo, Hannan 1 (unassisted) 2:32.\n 2, Buffalo, LaFontaine 1 (Mogilny) 9:26.\nSecond period\n 3, Boston, Juneau 1 (Neely, Oates) pp, 7:20.\n 4, Boston, Neely 1 (Oates, Juneau) 14:42.\n 5, Buffalo, Mogilny 1 (Hawerchuk, Smehlik) 19:55.\nThird period\n 6, Buffalo, Mogilny 2 (unassisted) 3:46.\n 7, Boston, Neely 2 (Juneau, Oates) 15:44.\n 8, Boston, Heinze 1 (Juneau) 17:00.\nOvertime\n 9, Buffalo, Sweeney 1 (Khmylev, Smehlik) 11:03.\n\nBuffalo: 5 Power play: 3-0\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nHannan 1 0 1\nHawerchuk 0 1 1\nKhmylev 0 1 1\nLaFontaine 1 0 1\nMogilny 2 1 3\nSmehlik 0 2 2\nSweeney 1 0 1\n\nBoston: 4 Power play: 7-1\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nHeinze 1 0 1\nJuneau 1 3 4\nNeely 2 1 3\nOates 0 3 3\n\n-----------------------------------------\nMontreal 1 1 0 0--2\nQuebec 0 0 2 1--3\nFirst period\n 1, Montreal, Dionne 1 (Dipietro, Brunet) 5:52.\nSecond period\n 2, Montreal, Bellows 1 (Muller, Desjardins) 9:58.\nThird period\n 3, Quebec, Rucinsky 1 (Lapointe, Sundin) pp, 18:31.\n 4, Quebec, Sakic 1 (Lapointe) 19:12.\nOvertime\n 5, Quebec, Young 1 (Ricci, Duchesne) 16:49.\n\nQuebec: 3 Power play: 4-1\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nDuchesne 0 1 1\nLapointe 0 2 2\nRicci 0 1 1\nRucinsky 1 0 1\nSakic 1 0 1\nSundin 0 1 1\nYoung 1 0 1\n\nMontreal: 2 Power play: 1-0\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nBellows 1 0 1\nBrunet 0 1 1\nDesjardins 0 1 1\nDionne 1 0 1\nDipietro 0 1 1\nMuller 0 1 1\n", "\nWhy not? Horner played 130 games in 1985 and hit 27 HR.\nMurphy played 162 and hit 37.\nIn 1986 Horner hit 27 in 141 games and Murphy hit 29 in 160 games.\n(and the Braves lost 96 and 89 games).", "\nI dont know about the story but it comes from the fact that in most stadiums, the batter faces northeast and so when\na pitcher is on the mound, his left arm is to the south, hence the term.", "\nPocklington just wanted to wake up the powers that be holding political\noffice, in Northlands, and in the business community that the Oilers\nwith their current lease arrangement are in a state where on a yearly\nbasis they will likely have an operating loss based on \"normal\" hockey\nrevenues and expenses. That he did this was a good thing...it is better\nhe complain early, and make the city aware of a potential looming crisis\nbefore he begins to lose millions and millions of dollars...which would\ntruly jeopardize the franchise.\n\nPocklington's first option is not to sell or to move, but to sell\na minority share of the team (to realize some of the appreciated value\nof the team) and to get a better arena deal, either in Northlands, or\nvia a new building. Pocklington probably isn't going to get exactly\nwhat he wants...but ultimately he will probably get enough, or will\nsell to someone who will probably get enough.\n\nThere are a lot of risks in moving a team also...\n\n...one has to remember \"Peter Puck's principle\"...it is better to\nspend other people's money than one's own if at all possible.", "\nThat's might be what it takes to beat the Braves this year. ", "\n ^^^^^^^\n ^^^^\nPlease pardon my ignorance if this is well known, but what is the current \nrule? \n\n\n\nMaybe we could limit the number of throws to first that the pitcher can make,\nand award a balk if he exceeds it. I'd have another question: who would \noperate the pitch clock? One of the umpires? Add another one to the crew?\n\n\nI'm not sure I like this idea. I think it would severely diminish the \nnumber of stolen bases and limit the availability of such neat strategic\nploys as the hit and run and the squeeze play (one of my personal favorites).\n\n\nAhhh! I suppose I should read the whole article before I hit the 'f' key,\neh? Obviously, from what I wrote above, I like this idea.\n\n\nIt may also increase the number of wild throws to the bag, since the \npitcher knows he doesn't have very many chances to pick off the runner,\nso he may hurry too much. I'd rather see runs scored as the result of \nsound hitting and sound baseball strategy rather than on the sloppiness\nthat could result from this kind of rule. So, I suppose there are some\ndisadvantages to that idea too.\n\n\n\nI remember in little league, if when up to bat we stepped out of the batter's\nbox, even for a moment, we were automatically out. That may be a little \nharsh for the majors, but seriously, how about putting a limit on the \nbatters being able to step out, take several dozen practice swings, pound\ntheir shoes, scratch their balls, etc.? Maybe forcing them to stay in the\nbatter's box wouldn't be such a bad idea. That could save a few minutes.\n", "Yeah, the news is true...the Leafs lost to the Wings 6-3.\nWish I could say I'd seen the whole game but my husband wanted\nto watch \"Young Guns II\" on another channel. Sometime between\nthe first time I tuned in and d saw the Leafs tie and the next time\nI tuned in and heard the score was 5-1, something happened.\n\tPlease no woofing from Red Wings fans. They're my third\nfavourite team, and if they make it past the Leafs I'll wish them\nluck. As for Potvin...well, it WAS his fist playoff game.", "I've been saying this for quite some time, but being absent from the\nnet for a while I figured I'd stick my neck out a bit...\n\nThe Royals will set the record for fewest runs scored by an AL\nteam since the inception of the DH rule. (p.s. any ideas what this is?)\n\nThey will fall easily short of 600 runs, that's for damn sure. I can't\nbelieve these media fools picking them to win the division (like our\nTom Gage of the Detroit News claiming Herk Robinson is some kind of\ngenius for the trades/aquisitions he's made)\n\nc-ya\n\nSean\n\n", "\nOK, here is my try:\n\n\t\t\t\t Lukko, Finland\n\t\t\t\t\t(look at the colors of his mask)\n\t\t\t\t\t \n\t\t\t\t ex-JyPHT, Finland, now in Germany\n\t\t\t\t\tExcellent defenseman\n\n\t\t\t\t\tHIFK, Finland\n\n\t\t\t\t Tappara, Finland\n\n\t\t\t\t\tHPK, Finland\n\n\t\t\t\t\tJokerit, Finland\n\t\n\t\t\t\t HPK, Finland\n\n\t\t\t\t JyPHT, Finland, no new contract\n\t\t\t\t\tJyPHT owns his player rights\n\nAll of these Czechs (Kadlec, Dolezal not anymore) are very good hockey\nplayers. It is a big surprise that Hlinka selected Dolezal. \n\"Dole\" had a bad season in JyPHT and that's why they didn't make\na new contract. The other Czech we had, Jiri Jonak, got fired also.", "\n\nImplicitly you are assuming that goals scored against Winnipeg with Selanne\non the ice can be blamed on him...Roger, he is a FORWARD. Winnipeg has a\nlousy defensive record anyway. Let's put it another way. John Cullen's +/-\nis terrible. What's your excuse for him? That his powerplay points don't\ncount? Neither do Selanne's... \n\n\nKnowledgeable hockey observers the world over would agree that\nfeeding Selanne so he can score does contribute in a meaningful way to\nwinning. \n\n\nYou're worried about Teemu when you have Glenn Anderson on your team?\n\n\nWhat he does best is score...so I refer you to my comment above.\n", "The FLYERS closed out the season last night with their 8th straight victory,\na 5-4 OT winner over the Hartford Whalers. The OT game winner came from Dimitri\nYushkevich, just his 5th of the season and his first game winner. The FLYERS\nnever led up until that point in the game. For the Whalers, the loss marked an\nNHL record 9th OT loss this season.\n\nRoster move:\n\nGord Hynes was called to to play in place of Ryan McGill\n\nInjuries:\n\nRyan McGill injured his hand in a fight 4/15 and was scratched.\n\nLines:\n\nEklund-Lindros-Recchi\nBeranek-Brind'Amour-Dineen\nLomakin-Butsayev-Conroy\nFaust-Acton-Brown\n\nGalley-Bowen\nYushkevich-Hawgood\nCarkner-Hynes\n\nDominic Roussel\n\nGame Summary:\n\nI didn't get TV coverage of the game, and since it was stormy in these parts\nI didn't have the best radio coverage either. Here's the box score followed by\na few things I did pick up:\n\nFirst Period:\n\tHartford, Nylander 10, 8:51\n\tPhiladelphia, Recchi 53 (Lindros, Brind'Amour), 19:59.8 (pp)\nPenalties - Verbeek, Har (holding), :55; Carkner, Phi (roughing), 13:53; Houda,\nHar (interference) 18:43\n\nSecond Period:\n\tHartford, Burt 6 (Cunneyworth, Kron), 2:00\n\tPhiladelphia, Bowen 1 (Eklund, Recchi), 7:09\n\tHartford, Nylander 11 (Zalapski, Sanderson), 9:38\nPenalties - Galley, Phi, major-game misconduct (spearing) :58; Verbeek, Har\nmajor-game misconduct (spearing), :58; Brown, Phi (tripping), 3:22; Zalapski,\nHar (tripping), 15:51; Brind'Amour, Phi (slashing), 19:50\n\nThird Period:\n\tHartford, Kron 14 (Sanderson, Cassels), 1:24 (pp)\n\tPhiladelphia, Beranek 15 (Lomakin, Yushkevich), 3:11\n\tPhiladelphia, Faust 2 (Brind'Amour, Roussel), 3:38\nPenalties - Houda, Har (tripping), 4:20; Hawgood, Phi (holding), 5:30\n\nOvertime:\n\tPhiladelphia, Yushkevich 5 (Faust), 1:15.\nPenalties - None\n\nPower Play:\n\tPhiladelphia 1 of 4, Hartford 1 of 4\n\nGoalies:\n\tPhiladelphia, Roussel 14-11-5 (30 shots - 26 saves)\n\tHartford, Lenarduzzi, 1-1-1 (38 - 33)\n\nOn the first Hartford goal, Gord Hynes misplayed the puck at the FLYERS blue\nline and Nylander stripped him and took off.\n\nThe Recchi goal was a 2 on 1 with Lindros.\n\nThe Bowen goal was just a puck he threw at the net, got a good carom and it\nended up behind the goalie.\n\nOn the second Nylander goal he got three whacks at the puck before it went in.\nThis is the most frustrating part of the FLYERS defense. Take the body, and if\nthey get one shot and beat you fine. Don't give them another chance. Carkner,\nGalley and McGill are all terrible about this, I'll bet money at least one of\nthem was the closest FLYER to the play.\n\nThat's all I have, my radio got bad after that and I was lucky to know who it\nwas that scored, much less how.\n\nFrom what I heard, Roussel had a very strong game. After the game, Gene Hart\nasked Bobby Taylor to pick the three stars of the season rather than of the\ngame. It was Garry Galley #3 for his career high point total (I'm surprised\nthat a former goalie wouldn't look closer at his defensive play), Tommy \nSoderstrom #2 for his team record tying 5 shutouts in only about 1/2 a season\nand, Mark Recchi #1 for his all time high team single season scoring mark.\nBut here's the odd part. He couldn't decide between Lindros and Recchi for\nnumber 1. If he picks Recchi as #1 after he had a hard time choosing between\nhim and Lindros, doesn't that make Lindros #2????\n\nWhat? You wanna know my three stars of the season? Well, since you asked...\n\n#1 Eric Lindros. Eric dominates a game simply by stepping out onto the ice.\nThe difference between the team's record with him and without him is no\naccident. I believe that the team could have been almost as successful without\nRecchi. There is no question that this team is significantly better with Eric\nLindros on it, and I think that he will deservedly wear the 'C' on his jersey\nnext season.\n\n#2 Tommy Soderstrom. 5 shutouts was second in the league to only Ed Belfour,\nand Tommy didn't have a Chris Chelios (booo) in front of him. He also didn't\nplay a complete season due to heart problems (sentimental edge here, my family\nhas a history of heart problems). There's no question in my mind that Tommy\nSoderstrom is this teams goalie of the future, and if Roussel complains again\nabout being number 2 look for him to be traded within 2 years.\n\n#3 Mark Recchi. Again, you can't argue with an all-time team high single season\nscoring mark. There are an awful lot of teams that didn't have a single player\nget as many points. Plus, Mark is the only FLYER to play the entire season.\nNot a tough choice.\n\nHonorable mentions: Rod Brind'Amour topped his single season high point total\nwhich he set last year. The difference was that he wasn't on the top line\nthis year and didn't get as much playing time. Then again, he didn't get the\ndefensive attention that he got last year from the other team either.\n\nDimtri Yushkevich was the teams most consistent defenseman. Yes, he made rookie\nmistakes, but he was usually fast enough to make up for them. I have a feeling\nthat with his shot he'll score a few more points next year without giving up\nanything in his own zone, and I suspect that he'll be the teams top defenseman\nin years to come.\n\nGarry Galley was the team's point leader from defensemen. Again, there are some\nthings you just can't argue with. And he battled with chronic fatigue syndrome,\nhe certainly deserves kudos for only missing one game, and that was against his\nwishes under doctors orders. But his defensive play often negates his offensive\ncontribution. A little more caution, and a little bit smarter in his own end\nwill make him a much more important part of the team next year.\n\nBrent Fedyk was the leagues biggest improvement over last years point total.\nBut consistency became a problem for him.\n\nA couple misc notes mostly for mailing list members:\n\nTom Misnik, a member of the mailing list, would like to exchange E-mail\naddresses with any list members who want to keep in touch over the summer.\nIf you're interested, you can send him mail at:\n\natt!ACR.ORG!TMISNIK\n\nThe FLYERS end the season 1 game below .500 in 5th place, their best winning\npercentage since going .500 in 1988-89. 14-20-3 within the division (4th in\nPatrick), 23-14-5 at home. They finished 17th overall, will draft 10th in\nnext years entry draft (Quebec had the 1st rounder, though). They scored as\nmany goals as they allowed, 319.\n\nThe 8 straight wins is the most since they won 13 in a row in 1985.\n\nI will be sending out final stats as soon as I get the issue of the Hockey\nNews that contains them, since there are no more games for me to go to I have\nno other way of getting them.\n\nI hope you've all enjoyed this years hockey season as much as I have. Knowing\nthe future that we have coming to us made missing the playoffs one more time\nalmost bearable.\n\nFLYERS team record watch:\n\nEric Lindros:\n\n41 goals, 34 assists, 75 points\n\n(rookie records)\nclub record goals:\t\t\tclub record points:\nEric Lindros\t40 1992-93\t\tDave Poulin\t76 1983-84\nBrian Propp\t34 1979-80\t\tBrian Propp\t75 1979-80\nRon Flockhart\t33 1981-82\t\tEric Lindros\t75 1992-93\nDave Poulin\t31 1983-84\t\tRon Flockhart\t72 1981-82\nBill Barber\t30 1972-73\t\tPelle Eklund\t66 1985-86\n\nMark Recchi:\n\n53 goals, 70 assists, 123 points.\n\nclub record goals:\t\t\tclub record points:\nReggie Leach\t61 1975-76\t\tMark Recchi\t123 1992-93*\nTim Kerr\t58 1985-86,86-87\tBobby Clarke\t119 1975-76\nTim Kerr\t54 1983-84,84-85\tBobby Clarke\t116 1974-75\nMark Recchi\t53 1992-93*\t\tBill Barber\t112 1975-76\nRick Macliesh\t50 1972-73\t\tBobby Clarke\t104 1972-73\nBill Barber\t50 1975-76\t\tRick Macliesh\t100 1972-73\nReggie Leach\t50 1979-80\n\n*More than 80 games.\n\nFLYERS career years:\n\nPlayer\t\tPoints\tBest Prior Season\nMark Recchi\t123\t113 (90-91 Penguins)\nRod Brind'Amour\t86\t77 (91-92 FLYERS)\nGarry Galley\t62\t38 (84-85 Kings)\nBrent Fedyk\t59\t35 (90-91 Red Wings)\n\nThat's all for now...", "\nThere is really nothing inherently wrong with it but they tried it just\na little over a decade ago, and noone showed up for the early rounds in\nthe playoffs...whereas soon after they went to the divisional set-up\narenas were mostly filled in the early rounds. \n\nThe empirical evidence of the last two decades is that more people will\nshow up to see the Bruins play the Sabre umpteen times than see the\nBruins play the Captials in the first round.\n\nMaybe hockey has increased in popularity sufficiently that this will\nno longer be the case. The experiment is worthwhile with the uneven\ndistribution of the expansion teams, but I prefer the divisional \nplayoff.", "Im trying to find a site that has UPDATED(daily) stats more the\n\tNational league. I'll take both leagues but I'm really interested in the\n\tNational league.", "I've heard that you can score on Belfour by shooting high \nbecause he goes down a lot, and on Potvin by shooting high \non him and then getting the rebound in because he plays so\ndeep in the net. Any truth to these?\n\n\n\t\t\tBrad", "1993 World Championships in Germany:\n ====================================\n\n Group A results:\n\n SWEDEN - SWITZERLAND 4-6 (0-3,3-1,1-2)\n\n 1st: SWI 0-1 Manuele Celio 1 3:21\n SWI 0-2 Patrick Howald 1 11:37\n SWI 0-3 Patrick Howald 2 (Sven Leuenberger) 16:00\n 2nd: SWE 1-3 Peter Andersson 1 (Michael Nylander) 2:47 (pp)\n SWI 1-4 Roman Waeger 1 (Martin Rauch,Sven Leuenberger) 8:53 (pp)\n SWE 2-4 Jonas Bergqvist 3 (Markus Naslund) 9:08\n SWE 3-4 Jan Larsson 1 (Patrik Juhlin) 18:50\n 3rd: SWE 4-4 Mikael Renberg 2 (Thomas Rundqvist,Peter Andersson) 7:49\n SWI 4-5 Roman Waeger 2 9:07\n SWI 4-6 Felix Hollenstein 1 (Sven Leuenberger,Thomas Vrabec) 11:29\n\n Shots on goal: Penalties: Attendance: Referee:\n Sweden 5 20 18 - 43 4*2min 6,000 Rob Hearn, USA\n Switzerland 10 6 7 - 23 5*2min\n\n Switzerland beat Sweden in a WC for the first time since 1950, and the Swiss\n now have a small chance of reaching the quarterfinals (if Austria beats\n Italy tonight).\n\n The Swiss took the lead after Hakan Ahlund made an incredibly stupid drop\n pass at his own blue line, and Celio came in alone with Soderstrom and beat\n Tommy to the stick side. The Swedes continued to make mistakes as Howald\n was allowed to skate in between the Swedish D and put the puck past Tommy\n to make it 0-2. 0-3 was a nice one, Howald entered the Swedish zone, slammed\n on the breaks, and his shot went in by Tommy's far post. One of the lousiest\n periods I've seen Sweden play this year.\n Second period saw a new Swedish team, and the Swiss had to ice the puck many\n times. On a pp, Nylander skated in from the boards, Pavoni made the initial\n save, but Peter Andersson scored on the rebound. Then a power play goal\n from the Swiss, a slap shot from the blue line hit two players on the way\n to the goal and past Soderstrom also. Jonas Bergqvist made it 2-4 after a\n nice pass from Naslund behind the goal. Jan Larsson reduced the lead to 3-4\n just before the end of 2nd period, on a pp skated in unattacked in front of\n the goal, and put the puck through Pavoni's 5-hole. \n Third period, Sweden equalized on a slap shot from Renberg that trickled\n through Pavoni's 5-hole. Then, another defensive mistake by the Swedes,\n Waeger was allowed to skate around the Swedish goal unattacked and from close\n range could make it 4-5. Hollenstein then scored 4-6 on a 2-on-1 break away,\n and put it top shelf with no chance for Soderstrom.\n\n Switzerland:\n\n Goaltender: 20 Reto Pavoni (28 Renatio Tosio)\n Defense: 26 Rick Tschumi, 2 Martin Steinegger\n 16 Sven Leuenberger, 5 Martin Rauch\n 7 Sandro Bertaggia, 17 Patrick Sutter\n 31 Samuel Balmer\n Forwards: 22 Alfred Luthi, 11 Felix Hollenstein, 25 Roman Waeger\n 23 Gil Montandon, 12 Roberto Triulzi, 10 Patrick Howald\n 35 Christian Weber, 18 Andreas Ton, 24 Joerg Eberle\n 15 Bruno Erni, 13 Thomas Vrabec, 29 Manuele Celio\n \n- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -\n\n RUSSIA - CANADA 1-3 (0-2,1-1,0-0)\n\n 1st: CAN 0-1 Kevin Dineen 1 (Garry Galley) 4:28\n CAN 0-2 Paul Kariya 2 (Eric Lindros) 12:20 (pp)\n 2nd: CAN 0-3 Eric Lindros 10 (Paul Kariya,Shayne Corson) 9:40\n RUS 1-3 Valeri Karpov 2 (?) 16:24\n 3rd:\n\n Penalties: RUS 2*2min 1*5min, CAN 5*2min\n Referee: Anton Danko, Czech republic\n Attendance: 8,600\n\n Russia probably made their best game of the tourney, but yet there wasn't\n enough to win against the effective Canadians.\n\n Galley took a slap shot that found Dineen by the far post, and Dineen just\n deflected the puck past Trefilov in the Russian goal. Then a power play\n goal, after a couple of deflections Eric Lindros found Kariya alone by the\n far post, and Kariya put the puck high over a sliding Trefilov.\n Russia won the shots in the first period 12-5, and they had the most of\n the scoring opportunities, but they just couldn't score.\n Second period saw Lindros scoring his 10th (!!) goal of the WC. Kariya\n entered the Russian zone, slammed on the break to get past his defenseman,\n then made a nice pass to Corson who just got the stick on the puck to\n deflect it to Lindros who one-timed the puck.\n The Russians then finally got their goal, Karpov broke in from the side\n and made a slap shot in Tugnutt's top right hand corner.\n \n Player of the game in Canada was voted Paul Kariya, and for Russia Valeri\n Karpov. I agree, the difference in this game was Lindros and Kariya, and\n in part also Tugnutt. Kariya had a far better game now than vs the Swedes,\n and he was very impressive. Kariya got the place in the line with Lindros\n after Mike Gartner went out with a rib-injury early in the first period.\n\n Lindros, BTW, lead the point scoring with 14 pts (9+5) before this game,\n 7 pts ahead of the next player! i.e. double as much as the next player\n (among those Kariya with 1+6). Amazing!\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n Group B results:\n\n FINLAND - CZECH REPUBLIC 1-3 (0-0,1-1,0-2)\n\n 1st:\n 2nd: CZE 0-1 Petr Hrbek 2 11:04\n FIN 1-1 Mika Alatalo 1 17:51\n 3rd: CZE 1-2 Jiri Dolezal 3 5:04\n CZE 1-3 Martin Hostak 2 19:45 (en)\n\n Penalties: FIN 8*2min, CZE 9*2min\n Referee: Vincent Moreno, Switzerland\n Attendance: 4,300\n\n- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -\n\n GERMANY - USA 6-3 (5-0,0-0,1-3)\n\n 1st: GER 1-0 Raimond Hilger 2 7:12\n GER 2-0 Gerd Truntschka 3 11:16\n GER 3-0 Ernst Kopf 3 11:55\n GER 4-0 Michael Rumrich 3 16:06\n GER 5-0 Benoit Doucet 1 18:45\n 2nd:\n 3rd: USA 5-1 Derek Plante 1 4:06\n GER 6-1 Dieter Hegen 5 6:57\n USA 6-2 Craig Johnson 1 7:30\n USA 6-3 Rob Gaudreau 3 13:07\n\n Penalties: GER 7*2min, USA 10*2min\n Referee: Valeri Bokarev, Russia\n Attendance: 11,000\n", "For that matter, how many Gentleman of The Press Box have been Jewish? The\nonly Jewish sportscaster that comes to mind is Steve Williams (?), who had\na Phillies show on KYW in Philadelphia in the 80s.", "If ESPN pisses you off, call them - they do respond to calls. Last night I\ncalled when they said they were cutting to baseball and we couldn't see the\nsudden-death overtime for the BUffalo game. Apparently they received enough\ncalls so they waited for the overtime to finish before cutting away.\n\nTheir phone number is 203-585-2000", "\n\nWhy not? I believe both the Devils and Islanders got 87 points.\nSay for example, another team had this record : 20-37-47;\nthey had 20*2+47*1+37*0=87 which is the same as their points total.\n(The Islanders' and Devils' records are both 40-37-7.\n\nIt is simple arithmetics and involve no Calculus.\n", "I heard that Eli is selling the team to a group in Cinninati. This would\nhelp so that the O's could make some real free agent signings in the \noffseason. Training Camp reports that everything is pretty positive right\nnow. The backup catcher postion will be a showdown between Tackett and Parent\nalthough I would prefer Parent. #1 Draft Pick Jeff Hammonds may be coming\nup faster in the O's hierarchy of the minors faster than expected. Mike\nFlanagan is trying for another comeback. Big Ben is being defended by\ncoaches saying that while the homers given up were an awful lot, most came\nin the beginning of the season and he really improved the second half. This\nmay be Ben's year. \n\tI feel that while this may not be Mussina's Cy Young year, he will\nbe able to pitch the entire season without periods of fatigue like last year\naround August. I really hope Baines can provide the RF support the O's need.\nOrsulak was decent but I had hoped that Chito Martinez could learn defense\nbetter and play like he did in '91. The O's right now don't have many\nleft-handed hitters. Anderson proving last year was no fluke and Cal's return\nto his averages would be big plusses in a drive for the pennant. The \nrotation should be Sutcliffe, Mussina, McDonald, Rhodes, ?????. Olson is an\ninteresting case. Will he strike out the side or load the bases and then get\nthree pop outs? You never know.\nThe way I see the AL East this year (with personal biases mixed in)\nBaltimore\nNew York\nToronto\nMilwaukee\nCleveland\nBoston\nDetroit\n(The top 4 are the only true contenders in my mind. One of these 4 will\ndefinitely win the division unless it snows in Hell/Maryland :). I feel\nthat this Baltimore's season to finally put everything together.)\n__________________________________________________________________________\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n \n", "\nHe's not gone yet. The position opening is down to Polie and the\nSabres' GM Gerry Meehan. I think I'd like to see Meehan gone...\n", "I am selling a one way ticket from Washington DC to Champaign, IL ( the\nhome of the University of Illinois). Am willing to offer a good price.\n\nIf you are interested, please email me at: eshneken@uiuc.edu", "This is an all-point team for the Canadian NHLers who are not playoff bound...\n\nGOALIES\nBill Ranford, Edmonton\nSean Burke, Hartford\nPeter Sidorkiewicz, Ottawa\n\nDEFENSEMEN\nZarley Zalapski, Hartford\nNorm MacIver, Ottawa\nGarry Galley, Philadelphia\nGreg Hawgood, Philadelphia\nDave Manson, Edmonton\nMark Tinordi, Minnesota\n\nCENTERS\nMark Messier, N. Y. Rangers\nGeoff Sanderson, Hartford\nBrian Bradley, Tampa Bay\nRod Brind'Amour, Philadelphia\n\nLEFT WINGS\nAdam Graves, N. Y. Rangers\nChris Kontos, Tampa Bay\nPatrick Poulin, Hartford\nShayne Corson, Edmonton\n\nRIGHT WINGS\nPat Verbeek, Hartford\nRuss Courtnall, Minnesota\nMike Gartner, N. Y. Rangers\nKevin Dineen, Philadelphia", "\nObviously some reporter for the Ottawa Sun got taken by an April\nFools joke...probably started by someone with the Nordiques or the\nBruins. \n\nLike for example...who is going to reimburse the Flyers for the\n$15 million they paid to the Nordiques...like the Senators are\ngoing to get Lindros and $15 million. The Flyers sent the\nequivalent of 6 or 7 players (when you include the draft choices)\nto Quebec, and they are going to get only four back.\n\nSome reporter was had real badly and someone must be having a\nreal good laugh seeing as how the so much of the sports media\nhas chosen to publicize this utter nonsense.\n\n\nCan you think...it cannot possibly be true...no need for the \"if\"!\n\n\nI can't believe that anyone would consider giving such crap even\nthe remotest consideration.", "Hartford 1 1 3--5\nNY Rangers 1 2 1--4\nFirst period\n 1, Hartford, Cunneyworth 5 (Janssens, Greig) 12:21.\n 2, NY Rangers, Graves 34 (Turcotte, Zubov) 18:39.\nSecond period\n 3, NY Rangers, Kovalev 19 (Turcotte, Graves) 2:12.\n 4, Hartford, Sanderson 44 (Cassels) pp, 4:54.\n 5, NY Rangers, Amonte 30 (Andersson, Vanbiesbrouck) pp, 19:13.\nThird period\n 6, NY Rangers, M.Messier 25 (Amonte, Andersson) 2:26.\n 7, Hartford, Sanderson 45 (Cassels) sh, 5:23.\n 8, Hartford, Nylander 6 (Ladouceur) 8:35.\n 9, Hartford, Verbeek 36 (Zalapski) 17:43.\n\nHartford: 5 Power play: 4-1 Special goals: pp: 1 sh: 1 Total: 2\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nCassels 0 2 2\nCunneyworth 1 0 1\nGreig 0 1 1\nJanssens 0 1 1\nLadouceur 0 1 1\nNylander 1 0 1\nSanderson 2 0 2\nVerbeek 1 0 1\nZalapski 0 1 1", "\n\n\n\n\nI've only ever seen this called once. Back around 1979-1980. I think\nthat Steve Carlton was pitching. On the other hand, I am not sure how\nmuch effect this would have. It seems that most of the time lost is\nwhen there are runners on base and the rule does not cover this.\n\n\nI have wondered why a pitcher is given 8 pitches when he enters the\ngame. Let's be serious. The relief pitcher has normally been\nthrowing out in the bullpen for a few minutes. Does he really need 8\nmore pitches?\n\n", "\nHank Greenberg, Sid Gordon, Ron Blomberg.", "NL:\n\nChicago Wait Til Next Years\nNew York Bunch of Egos With no Chemistrys\nPhiledelphia Overacheivers Until Mitch Williams Blows Games\nPittsburg CHeapskates\nMontreal Canadiens (love that name!)\nSt. Louis Cardinals (how boring!)\nMiami Marlins (try telling Tampa-StPete that the Marlins are Florida's)\n\nSan Diego She's Going DOwn Men and Children Firsters\nLos Angeles Disables Listers\nSan Francisco Get Past Number Five and You Are Fines\nCincinatti Underacheivers\nAtlanta Bills\nColorado Pitching is 10% of Baseballers\nHouston Astonomicals\n\nAL:\n\nNew York Steinbrenners\nBoston Wow, We're In Firsters\nCleveland Good Hit No PItchers\nDetroit Lions (Hey, they score 20 every game also!)\nToronto God Does Jack Morris Stinkers\nBaltimore We Have a Great Park and a Bankrupt Owners\nMilwaukee Don't Drink the Water Drink the Beer Insteaders\n\nKansas City Oh God Not Againers\nOakland Gezz Did the Eck Blow a Saves\nTexas Bashers\nCalifornia We Won't Win But We'll Sure As Hell Tryers\nSeattle Griffeys\nChicago We''l Find A Way to Lose Agains\nMinnesota Marshmallow Domers\n\n \n--\nmsilverm@nyx.cs.du.edu\t\t\t\tGO CUBS!!!", "\nThere was an article in one of the Toronto papers about this a few\nmonths ago...probably the Globe and Mail...\n\n...any ethical \"journalist\", even a sports journalist should not\naccept free meals from a team in any case, which was the one of\nthe points the article was making.\n\nAdmittdly, most sports reporting is mostly with any ethical\nstandards...", "\n\n\n\nThat's the trouble: *what* peak years? He wavers between excellent and\nvery good, with no real bell-shaped pattern in there. 1979 was a fine\nyear; 78 and 80 were merely really good. With the Yankees, 84 (I think)\nwas the best; that was the one with the .340 BA. \n\nOf course, 1992 wasn't bad, either. He's been in the bigs since 1973,\nwith a one-year intermission for surgery. Though he doesn't have the\nmix of skills that Pete Rose did, he's like Pete Rose in one way: he's \nnot a natural hitter. Winfield's swing used to be the ugliest thing\nin New York, and that includes the Gulf+Western Building. But his sheer\nathletic prowess and physical size made up for a lot. \n\nFascinating player to watch, even now. Not obviously great in any one\nway; but able to do quite a few things in surprising ways and at surprising\nlevels.", "You want to speed up ballgames?\n\n1. Enforce the two minutes between innings. As it is, many fields are\n allowing THREE minutes between them. Fifteen seconds before \n TV commercials are gone to, Thirty or so before action begins upon\n the return to the game. Two minutes, last out to first pitch, or\n a ball is called.\n\n2. Don't grant time to batters just because they want it. They may get\n pissed at first, but they'll get in line, once anything the pitcher\n throws while they're adjusting their wristbands is a strike.\n\n3. Mandate a rule permitting only N seconds between pitches (the current\n rule is too lenient), and then enforce it. Fifteen seconds is more\n than enough time. If the pitch isn't released in 15, call it a ball,\n and restart the clock.\n\nBaseball games take about 2:51 in the NL, and just a shade under 3 hours\nin the AL. That's just too damn long. I don't like to PLAY in 3 hour\ngames, much less WATCH a game for that long. My butt falls asleep, and\nif I'm watching on TV, I'll channel surf between pitches, catching\ncolorized versions of Mr. Ed, Leave it to Beaver, and \"Those Wacky\nNieporents\" on Nick at Nite.\n\n", "\n\n\n\nHow about Kevin Hatcher? Scored roughly 35 goals, plays 30 minutes a game.\n\n\nThat's really sad when two second-rate goalies (Barasso and Belfour)\nare the main contenders for the Vezina. Call me crazy, but how about\nTommy Soderstrom - five shutouts for a 6th place team that doesn't\nreally play defense. It's really unfortunate that the better goalies\nin the league (McLean, Essensa, Vernon) had unspectacular years. BTW,\nif you are going to award the Norris on the basis of the last 30 days,\nwhy not give the Vezina to Moog? He has been the best goalie over the\npast month.\n\n\n\n\n\nArbour or King. Burns will probably win, since playoffs aren't taken\ninto consideration - he's OK in the regular season, but I'm not sure\nif he's beaten anyone other than Hartford in the playoffs.", "from Matthew Rush:\n\nIt's pretty obvious that Holik's hitting Barrasso was an accident. He\nwas even apologizing for it immediately before the Penguins all jumped\non him.", "Jason Lee asks:\n\nYou must have heard wrong. His arm is still sore. He hasn't gone on the DL,\nbut he may. Managmenet is treating him as a day-to-day situation. \n\nHis doctors thought that he was ready, and they had him throw in\nColorado, but his arm wasn't up to the strain. He is throwing every day,\nbut he's just not quite ready to pitch full strength yet.\n\n(This is based on an interview that he gave on WFAN NY radio on Thursday,\n4/23)", "Bo Bilinsky?\n\n\n", "Everyone... Read this. If you have already sent your predictions, please\ncorrect the Patrick division if you would like. You have until midnight\non monday (my time.)\n\nYou may need to correct these games...\n\n\n3 - Pittsburgh vs. New Jersey\n4 - New York Islanders vs. Washington\n\n10 - Patrick Division Winner\n\n13 - Wales Conference Winner\n\n15 - Stanley Cup Winner\n\nPlease forward all corrections to\n\nRichard Madison\nrrmadiso@napier.uwaterloo.ca\n\n", "\nWasn't Ron Bloomberg, the former Yankee who got the first base hit\nby a Designated Hitter, Jewish??", "\n\tViola has only played in the NL with the Mets -- not possible for him\nto have defeated or lost to every team. Ditto for Tanana who was mentioned\nin a previous post.\n\n\n\tI don't remember if Seaver managed to get a win against the White Sox\nin his brief sojourn with Boston so I'd say the other pitcher to defeat every\nteam is either Mike Torrez (he bounced around enough for a long enough period\nof time) or Koosman as mentioned. I would also guess that if one of these\ntwo did not manage to beat every team he did manage to lose to every team.\n\nTom\n", "NHL PLAYOFF RESULTS FOR GAMES PLAYED 23 APRIL 1993:\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n CONFERENCE SEMI-FINALS BEST OF SEVEN\n PATRICK ADAMS NORRIS SMYTHE\n \n NJ BUF (leads 3-0) STL (leads 3-0) WIN \n PIT (leads 3-0) BOS CHI VAN (leads 2-1)\n\n NYI (leads 2-1) MON TOR LA \n WAS QUE (leads 2-1) DET (leads 2-1) CAL (tied 2-1)\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nDetroit Red Wings (lead series 2-1) 0 1 1 - 2\nToronto Maple Leafs 2 0 2 - 4\n\nDave Andreychuk scored his first two playoff goals for Toronto and Felix\nPotvin stopped 34 of 36 Red Wing shots as the Maple Leafs won their first\nwin in the series.\n\nFirst period-- 1, Toronto, Andreychuk 1 (Foligno,Gilmour), 4:21. 2, Toronto,\n Andreychuk 2 (Gilmour), 7:37.\n\nSecond period-- 3, Detroit, Fedorov 2 (Coffey,Sheppard), 1:20 (pp).\n\nThird period-- 4, Toronto, Clark 1 (Gilmour,Mironov), 4:44 (pp). 5, Toronto,\n Pearson 1 (Clark,Cullen), 9:32. 6, Detroit, Chiasson 2 (Konstantinov,\n Fedorov), 14:14.\n\nShots on goal-- Detroit 9-19-8--36. Toronto 13-8-12--33. Power-play\n opportunities-- Detroit 1 of 5; Toronto 1 of 8. Goalies-- Detroit,\n Cheveldae, 2-1 (33 shots-29 saves). Toronto, Potvin, 1-2 (36-34).\n A--15,720.\n\nReferee-- Mark Faucette. Linesmen-- Kevin Collins, Brian Murphy.\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nChicago Blackhawks 0 0 0 - 0\nSt. Louis Blues (lead series 3-0) 1 1 1 - 3\n\nCurtis Joseph blanked the Blackhawks for the second straight game and Brett\nHull scored a goal and added an assist to lead the Blues to a 3-0 series lead.\nChicago hasn't scored in 131:09 of play since Brian Noonan's hat-trick goal in\ngame 1.\n\nFirst period-- 1, St. Louis, Janney 1 (Hull,Brown), 16:53 (pp).\n\nSecond period-- 2, St. Louis, Hull 3 (Miller), 12:31.\n\nThird period-- 3, St. Louis, Emerson 1 (Felsner,Shanahan), 16:44.\n\nShots on goal-- Chicago 9-12-13--34. St. Louis 7-13-4--24. Power-play\n opportunities-- Chicago 0 of 4; St. Louis 1 of 7. Goalies-- Chicago,\n Belfour, 0-3 (24 shots-21 saves). St. Louis, Joseph, 3-0 (34-34).\n A--17,985.\n\nReferee-- Dan Marouelli. Linesmen-- Randy Mitton, Shane Heyer.\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nVancouver Canucks (lead series 2-1) 1 2 1 - 4\nWinnipeg Jets 3 0 2 - 5\n\nTeemu Selanne broke out of his mini-slump with a hat trick, including the\ngame-winner, to lead the Jets to a 5-4 victory. Trevor Linden and Pavel Bure\neach scored twice for the losing Canucks.\n\nFirst period-- 1, Winnipeg, Tkachuk 1 (Housley), 3:52. 2, Winnipeg, Selanne 1\n (Housley,Shannon), 7:01 (pp). 3, Vancouver, Bure 2, 18:29. 4, Winnipeg,\n Selanne 2 (Shannon,Housley), 19:57 (pp).\n\nSecond period-- 5, Vancouver, Linden 2 (Ronning,Lumme), :14. 6, Vancouver,\n Linden 3 (Adams,Slegr), :59 (pp).\n\nThird period-- 7, Winnipeg, Borsato 1 (Steen), 2:53 (sh). 8, Winnipeg,\n Selanne 3 (Shannon), 9:35. 9, Vancouver, Bure 3 (Babych,Lidster), 15:52.\n\nShots on goal-- Vancouver 18-9-10--37. Winnipeg 13-8-8--29. Power-play\n opportunities-- Vancouver 1 of 8; Winnipeg 2 of 6. Goalies-- Vancouver,\n McLean, 2-1 (29 shots-24 saves). Winnipeg, Essensa, 1-2 (37-33).\n A--15,569.\n\nReferee-- Kerry Fraser. Linesmen-- Gord Broseker, Dan Schachte.\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nCalgary Flames (lead series 2-1) 2 1 2 - 5\nLos Angeles Kings 0 1 1 - 2\n\n(Boxscore tomorrow)\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nSaturday, 24 April 1993:\n\n Washington at NY Islanders (NY Islanders lead series 2-1), 7:40pm EST\n Boston at Buffalo (Buffalo leads series 3-0), 7:40pm EST\n Quebec at Montreal (Quebec leads series 2-1), 8:10pm EST\n\nSunday, 25 April 1993:\n\n Pittsburgh at New Jersey (Pittsburgh leads series 3-0), 1:10pm EST\n Chicago at St. Louis (St. Louis leads series 3-0), 1:10pm EST\n Calgary at Los Angeles (Calgary leads series 2-1), 3:10pm EST\n Detroit at Toronto (Detroit leads series 2-1), 7:10pm EST\n Vancouver at Winnipeg (Vancouver leads series 2-1), 9:10pm EST\n\n\n-JPC\n\n\n-- ", "\n\nAs far as I know, Toronto, Pittsburgh, and New York (NL) change their\nuniforms every year. Every other year (e.g., New York), it will say Mets\nin cursive, New York in cursive, or New York in all caps. Minor changes,\nbut they do change them often. Last year, I think they had New York in all\ncaps. Did Toronto have Blue Jays or Toronto last year? What about\nPittsburgh?\n\n\nI hate the gray. They should opt for more color (like the White Sox).\nI hate white team versus gray team. Spring training uniforms look much\nbetter.", "from Anna Matyas:\n\nYeah, and also be second in the team in scoring and play about 35\nminutes a game and play on the power play and kill penalties and be the\nbest defenseman in the league. I'd take a whole team of Chelioses if I\ncould. (That way, when one got a penalty the others could kill it!)", " \n\n\n\nTed, you're missing a vital point. As Roger Lustig pointed out in a\nprevious response, the reason why Schott was banned from baseball was\nbecause she had been known to call and think in a racially biased manner on\na constant basis. Such thoughts affected her hiring practices. Bonilla,\non the other hand, was found to have mentioned this one word a single time.\n If he had been known to go around, criticizing homosexuals, it would be a\ndifferent story. Furthermore, he is merely an athlete. He doesn't have to\nhire anyone as Schott had to do. Dave Pallone, the former NL umpire who is\nan admitted homosexual, has decided to assist in a protest before a Mets\ngame at Shea. He, like you, thinks that Bonilla should be suspended from\nbaseball. Pallone is hoping for a year's suspension. In my opinion,\nthat's downright ludicrous. As Howie Rose on WFAN said, if you start\nsuspending athletes who have mentioned a derogatory word even a single time\nunder whatever conditions, then you'd probably have enough people remaining\nto play a three-on-three game. Now, honestly, if you truly analyze the\ndifferences between the two cases that you bring up in your article, I\nwould think that you'd reconsider your thoughts.\n\n\n -Sean\n\n", "\n BO JACKSON 1963 \n 1988 KCR 437 106 16 4 23 28 29 7 .253 67 .243 .288 .455\n 1989 KCR 517 134 19 5 33 41 27 10 .274 92 .259 .314 .507\n 1990 KCR 405 110 17 1 27 44 16 9 .286 77 .272 .343 .519\n 1991 CWS 71 16 3 0 3 12 0 1 .240 10 .225 .337 .394\n MAJ 1430 366 55 10 86 125 72 27 .270 246 .256 .316 .489\n MAJ 598 153 23 4 36 52 30 11\n\nThis is what Jackson looked like in 88-91, with everything converted\nto a neutral park, on the basis of run production. His equivalent\naverage started at .253 in 88, was up to .274 in 89 and 286 in 90. So\nlet us say he had established, in his last two seasons, a .280 level\nof play.\n\nThat is good. Very good, in fact. But it probably doesn't make the top\nten in the league. The 10th best EQA in the AL in 1992 was Dave\nWinfield's .296; Thomas was first at .350. First in the NL was Bonds,\nan incroyable .378; tenth was Bip Roberts, .297. But .280 is better\nthan any season in the past five years by Joe Carter; it is about what\nMattingly had in 1988 (.285); what Felix Jose had the last two years;\njust ahead of Time Raines' five-year average; better than Ryan\nKlesko's MLEs. \n\nHe got more attention from the media than was warranted from his\nbaseball playing, though; his hype was a lot better than his hitting.\nThat is the basis for the net.comments about him being overrated. The\nmedia would have you beleive he was a great hitter. I think he was a\ngood, maybe very good hitter. He was IMO, something like the 30th best\nhitter in the majors.", "\nI tell you, Steve Stone is like a prophet.\nHe must be making a ton in the boradcoast booth because\nI can't understand why he's not actually back in the game itself.\n\nThe other day he called Sosa's homerun against the Sox and\nclaimed the game would be going into extra innings when the\nscore was 8-3 in the 5th.\n\nSo yesterday he notices that Sosa's ahead in the count against\nMaddux and says, \"This is a fastball situation and Sosa will be\nlooking for it. But this is also the spot where Maddux throws\nthe straight change.\" Sure enough. Sosa gets ahead on it and pops\nit up to the infield.\n\nStoney for Cubs manager!", "\n ESPN never committed (and I never saw advertised) to a particular\nThursday game. They had originally scheduled Bos-Buf, and that was\nsomehow leaked on this net, but to my knowledge ESPN never publicly\nreleased a schedule until Monday when they announced Pitt-NJ Thursday\nand Boston-Buffalo Saturday.", "\nI grew up listening to Harry Carey call the Cardinals' games and\nreally liked him--then. But, as I recall, he was fired because\nhe was too critical (read: honest) when he was announcing. He\ndared to point out the Cards' miscues and such. At least, this is\nwhat I remember from when I was a kid.", "Since I was the one responsible for these divergent threads of\napprox. 40+ posts (going back to: The Braves could be better off\nif an injury happens), I may as well inject a little more\nfuel to the flame!\n\n1) Back at the beginning of Spring Training, I though\nLopez would make the squad easily. Olson was still\nrecovering from his late-season injury (knee, I believe),\nand there were questions as to whether he would be\nable to play before June. And then Berryhill was dinged up.\n\nI was looking forward to this, because I believe that Lopez\ncan hit AND field the position. Before last season, he was\nthe Braves \"Defensive Catcher\" prospect, while Brian Deak was\nthe Braves \"Offensive Catcher\" prospect. Besides, Olson\nand Berryhill couldn't hit their way out of a wet cardboard\nbox, and don't walk enough to be useful.\n\nBut Olson recovered quickly, Berryhill recovered, and the Braves went\nwith the two vets. I still say that if one of those two had been down\nat the start of the season, he wouldn't have gotten his job back.\n\n2) There is a certain logic to keeping Olson and Berryhill around.\nAfter all, ML catchers are in short supply and suffer from wear and\ntear. There are teams out there without ONE average ML catcher\n(California and Seattle come to mind). Certainly, trying to\nmove Olson or Berryhill through waivers would be unlikely to work.\nPlus, you'd have to eat that salary, which isn't huge, but isn't\ntiddleywinks either (I think Olson's at about $800,000, Berryhill\nat $450,000, but that's only what I recall).\n\n3) Yes, I think arbitration-eligibility may have a role to\nplay in this also. What is it, that 5/6 of the 2+year players\naren't eligible for arbitration? Only the 1/6 that were on the roster\nthe longest are eligible? Of course, the system may change,\nbut the extent of that change is not yet known. From a business\nstandpoint, it may make sense to keep Lopez down until June/the\nfirst time Olson/Berryhill go on the DL.\n\n4) I am still disappointed that Lopez isn't on the team.\nI still prefer to think of myself as a fan when it comes to the Braves,\nand the truth is that I'd rather see our best team on the field,\nwhich, IMO, includes Lopez.\n\nOf course,today we play the Cubs. Hopefully, we won't need him. ;)\n\nAs for the Schuerholz/Cox conversation, I imagine it went\nlike this: (Remember, they've BOTH been GM's)\n(the following is not meant to be read by the humor-impaired)\n\nCox: OK, we've sent Jones down. His fielding could be a\nlittle smoother. Besides, Blauser can hit OK and his fielding\nis better than it used to be.\n\nSchuerholz: Well, we'll have to send Nieves down too. Deion\njust won't sign that baseball only contract. We can't count\non him in October, so we have to keep Nixon around for the\ndefense. Besides, Gorman's not ready to give up on\nBilly Hatcher yet. Once Hatcher's gone AND Deion signs,\nwe can move Nixon for Frankie Rodriguez. That ought to\ngive us some pitching depth in 1995.\n\nCox: Yep, that'll be nice. Too bad Deion won't sign.\nOK, I'll look for Nieves when Justice starts having\nBerry-Berry...er, back problems again. Now, what about\nKlesko?\n\nSchuerholz: Well, we've still got to fork out another 1.5 mil\nfor Bream. If we keep Klesko, we either lose the money\nor Cabrera. I keep dangling Sid in front of Dal Maxwell,\nbut somehow he doesn't seem to be the same GM. First\nJeffries for Jose, and now Whiten for Clark! If he\ngets rid of Brian Jordan, then I'd HAVE to believe that he\nand Whitey Herzog switched bodies at the Winter Meetings!\n\nCox: OK, keep trying on Bream, and I'll wait til the trading\ndeadline for my Hunter/Klesko platoon. Maybe I can get a few\nextra at-bats for Cabrera while we wait. Try California...\nif Snow starts slowly, maybe WhiteyDal will bite on Sid.\nAnd if that doesn't work, then perhaps Sid's knees\ncould be \"persuaded\" to act up. There's always the\n15-day DL! Mwa-ha-ha-ha-ha!\n\nSchuerholz: What about Caraballo?\n\nCox: Well, he's not that much better than Lemke. Maybe if he starts\nin Richmond, he'll start walking more. Besides, if he's going to be\narbitration-eligible, better to stretch him out so that we actually\nget some value from him before he makes the big bucks.\n\nSchuerholz: Now, let's see. That leaves Lopez.\n\nCox: NOOOOO! I gotta keep Lopez! Sure, I didn't think Olson\nwould recover this quickly. Maybe I can talk Caminiti into\nrunning into him again?\n\nSchuerholz: Nope, Lopez has gotta go. You know that he'll get\n$3 million in arbitration. May as well put it off that one\nextra year. Besides, until Olson's shown his stuff a little\nbit, I can't trade him. Besides, Berryhill's a left-handed\nhitter. You know how rare that is?\n\nCox: Don't you mean a left-handed whiffer? Pretty common,\nif you ask me. I mean, he made Pat Borders look good in\nthe World Series. PAT BORDERS!!!\n\nSchuerholz: Hey, you're the one who wouldn't write Lopez\ninto the lineup.\n\nCox: Well, you're the one who went out and got me Jeff\nReardon! Besides, I thought Lopez wouldn't be used\nto our pitching staff's stuff. He got some time with\nthem this spring...looked pretty good. Come on, surely\nwe only need to keep one stiff behind the plate?\n\nSchuerholz: Yeah, but which stiff? Whichever one we keep\nwill be hurt by May.\n\nCox: OK, OK, you made your point. Keep them both. Surely\none of them will be on the DL by June at the latest. Then I\ncan call up Lopez, and then we can win 110 games! The Pennant!\nTHE WORLD SERIES! I'll be up there with John McGraw! Casey\nStengel! Earl Weaver! Oh, they laughed at me in Toronto,\nbut have you ever had to deal with George Bell? I'll finally\nget my just reward! Mwa-ha-ha-ha!\n\nSchuerholz: Easy, Bobby. Have you been taking those\n\"happy pills\" left around by Chuck Tanner? Why'd you\never hire that guy anyhow?\n\nCox: Don't ask me; ask Ted.\n\n-------------------------------------------------------\nEric Roush\t\tfierkelab@\tbchm.biochem.duke.edu\n\"I am a Marxist, of the Groucho sort\"\nGrafitti, Paris, 1968\n\nTANSTAAFL! (although the Internet comes close.)", "\nOh to be back in the good old days when I lived in Florida (Florida for\nPetes sake!!) and could watch hockey every night as ESPN and USA alternated\ncoverage nights. Oh well I guess it would be too simple for the home office\nto look back into their past to solve a problem in the present...\n\nOf course I shouldn't complain. At least I'm getting to watch the playoffs\nfor a change. (Hooray!!) Now if the ESPN schedulers will realise there are\nother teams except Pittsberg in the Patrick. (Sounds like a Dr Suess Book\n=)\n\nKOZ", "\nThe Dodgers after one inning of play have committed one error. At this rate\nthey'll have 1,455 errors this season!\n\nWell maybe I'm right this time...\n\n-- \nWarren Usui", "\n\nThe only reason ESPN showed that hockey came was because there was no\nother baseball game scheduled for the evening.\n\nRandy\nr_turgeo@oz.plymouth.edu\n\n", "\nThat's not inner calm. It's boredom, and it's being spoiled. The Arena's\nbeen as quiet as a church on many nights this year; too many of us just\ntake winning for granted. It's been seemingly forever since the team\nlost, and we've forgotten what it's like to feel real excitement and\nsurprise at victory.\n\nWhile I'm glad to have the Pens doing so well, in some ways it was a better\nhigh back when the Pens beat the Bruins two years ago, and the Rangers last\nyear. Too much of a good thing is not always good for you.", "\n\nI'm not quite sure how these numbers are generated. It appears that in\na neutral park Bo's HR and slugging tend to drop (he actually loses two\nhome runs). Or do they? What is \"equivalent average?\"\n\nOne thing, when looking at Bo's stats, is that you can see that KC took\naway some homers. Normally, you expect some would-be homers to go for\ndoubles or triples in big parks, or to be caught, and for that matter you\nexpect lots of doubles and triples anyway. But Bo, despite his speed, \nhit very few doubles and not that many triples. So I would expect his\nvalue to have risen quite considerably in a neutral park. \n\n\nFelix Jose has been a .350/.440 player in a fairly neutral park.\nI would offhand guess the `89-`90 Bo at around a .330/.530 player.\nMaybe .330/.550 . Not even close.\n\n\nI'd put him about there too. \n\nNote: I hadn't realized the media had hyped him so much. I thought he\nwas always viewed by them as a better football player, and only so-so \nat baseball. He did only have one 30-hr, 100-rbi season, and KC wasn't\nwinning.\n\nNote 2: I maybe have harped on this a bit in the past, but there is a\nmistake being made (by the SDCN's, as they are known, on this group)\nwith respect to players like Bo and Deion and Lofton (and perhaps others).\n\nWe find, that if you look at a large group of players, their past major\nand minor league numbers will predict their future numbers fairly well.\nTheir are some caveats: the younger they are, the less good the prediction;\nthe lower the minor league, the less good (I imagine), the more recent\nthe player has left college ball, etc.\n\nNow of course, this prediction involves quite a bit of \"error.\" Sometimes\na player with poor MLE's (Dave Justice, the 1990 Ventura) becomes a star.\nSome hitters develop (Shane Mack, Brian Downing), some don't (Oddibe\nMcDowell, Mickey Brantley). This error involves real things: there are\nreal reasons why Oddibe didn't hit and Shane did. It may (who knows)\ninvolve parks and batting coaches and wheaties and injuries and lifting\nand so on.\n\nBut still, you have this big pool of players, and things work pretty well.\nOne of the reasons for these predictions accuracy is the common background\nof the players. One thing we know about professional baseball players is\nthat all of them (or almost all) have spent a good deal of time playing\nball. Their backgrounds are similar.\n\nWhat hasn't been established is what happens when you encounter a player\nwith a different background? Is there some reason to believe that a\nBo, or a Deion, or a Lofton, or a Tony Gwynn (?), or an Ainge, or so\non, has such a different background, that the standard model and standard\nassumptions fit this person slowly?\n\nIt hasn't been established that you can use MLE's with two-sport players.\n(It hasn't been established that you can't, but then statistics is, after\nall, an art). I personally think otherwise lucid individuals continually\nmake completely nonsensical statements about Bo and Deion and Lofton.\n\"Look at those good-but-not-great minor league numbers,\" they say. Well,\nwhat happens if those numbers simply don't mean what they usually mean?\nIt might mean that Ken Lofton suddenly has a better year in Houston than\nTuscon. It might mean that Deion suddenly has a better half-year in\nAtlanta than Greenville. \n\nThen again, it might not. Ken and Deion might go right back in the tank\nthis year, live up to those poor MLE's. But you guys DON'T KNOW. What's \nworse, you don't know that you don't. And you don't know that there are \nother players you won't know about -- injuries and lifting and wheaties \nagain. You seem to think that the model is perfect and eternal. It's not.\nIt's got some error.\n\nOh well.\n\nBill Guilford", "Antonio,you weren't alone.\n\nABC ratings were very good. I was schocked to hear that ABC's telecast\nwas the fifth most watched sporting event over the weekend. National\nrating came out to a very respectable 3.3. Top-29 Nielsen markets were\nat 2.9. In Boston,the game scored lower at 2.4 but it had some competion\nfrom local sports teams.\nQuite frankly, I expected ABC's ratings to be under 2.0. But I'm happy\nto be proven wrong!\n\nWell,well...Sometimes it pays off clicking away on your cable-tv remote\ncontrol.:-) And if you happen to be a hockey fan,you could just stumble\nupon a playoff hockey game...\n\nESPN picked up Detroit-Toronto game on Monday night because the only\nnight game in MLB was being rained out in Chicago. You have to give\nESPN credit for switching to Detroit's FOX-50 coverage and having Bill\nClement at a Pittsburgh's TV station(WATE?) for intermission analysis.\nMaybe,ESPN people were giddy over perliminary over-night ABC ratings\nfor Sunday's telecast and thought it was a good idea to feature the\nNorris division showdown rather than a monster truck competion.\nGood move,ESPN!\n", "\nMight? You'd have to have no sense of humor at all not to! My favorite\nstuff are the Zero Heros, players who haven't hit homers in a long time, \nthe LGTGAH (who is that named after, I can't remember), and the box score\nline of the week. Incidentally, I just found out that the column has been\nmoved to Sundays. I get my Dad to send it to me up here in Boston every \nweek. Great stuff!", "\n\nMaine 5, LSSU 4.\n\n", "Derian Hatcher's game-misconduct penalty was rescinded by the NHL, \nallowing the Minnesota defenseman to play in the North Stars' last two \nregular-season games. Hatcher was given the penalty during a fight at \nthe end of a loss at St. Louis on Sunday, April 11. But the league \ndidn't rescind the game-misconduct penalty Shane Churla received. The \nStars recalled center Cal McGowan from their top minor league club in \nKalamazoo, Mich., to replace Churla.\n\nThe above is courtesy of The Washington Times on-line service.\n\nNow, here's where I need help. If anyone out there has a tape of Tuesday's\nChicago-Minnesota game, please contact me. Terms will be favorable.\n\nAlso, if anyone can tape tonight's Minnesota-Detroit game, please contact\nme. This could be quite important. Once again, I will make it worth\nyour trouble.\n\nThanks to all.\n", "\nLast night during a Sharks' broadcast, Commissioner Bettman was\ninterviewed during the first intermission. He made no bones about it,\nthe expansion to 28 is on permanent hold until he is satisfied that\nthe current allotment of 26 are fully stable. This means that cities\nlooking for a club in the foreseeable future will have to wait until\none team in some location fails or looks to relocate.\n\nThis is good, IMO. There's no sense in expanding if it only means\nmore failing franchises are in the mold.", "My vote goes to John Vanbiesbrouck. His mask has a skyline of New York\nCity, and on the sides there are a bunch of bees (Beezer). It looks\nreally sharp.\n\n--\n Keith Keller\t\t\t\tLET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!\n\t\t\t\t\t\tLET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!\n\tkkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu\t\tIVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!", "\n\nNot necessarily. It could mean that, or it could mean that he just hit\na lot better at home than he did on the road (see Frank Thomas' home/road\nsplits in '91 for an example). I would guess that some of Alomar's split\nis due to the Skydome, but most of it is probably due just to coincidence.\nThere's no way to be sure, of course, but the only hitters the Skydome\nseems to regularly help a lot are right handed home run hitters, and\nAlomar is not a home run hitter.\n\n\nOnly because of t&P's bogus fielding stats, which rate Alomar as the worst\ndefensive second baseman in the league. On a career basis, I think T&P's\nfielding stats may mean something, but on a seasonal basis it comes up\nwith ridiculous results like this. Alomar may not be the god of fielding\nthe media says he is, but he sure isn't the worst in baseball.\n\nOffensively, T&P rate Alomar much higher last year.\n\nRegarding the A vs. B argument, I'll just say they're both very good players\nwith different strengths and a bright future.\n", "\nDo you have a basis for this claim? Try these stats (taken from Playboy Magazine\nJune 1989):\n\nPercentage of pro football fans who have attended college: 39.7\nPercentage of pro baseball fans who have attended college: 41.5\nPercentage of pro basketball fans who have attended college: 39.9\nPercentage of pro hockey fans who have attended college: 54.6\n\nPercentage of pro football fans who earn more than $50K: 34.9\nPercentage of pro baseball fans who make more than $50K: 22.7\nPercentage of pro basketball fans who make more than $50K: 27.7\nPercentage of pro hackey fans who make more than $50K: 44.0\n\n\nThe biggest advantage that kids from Boondock or Weedville have is the\navailability of ice. In the San Jose area we have a population of 800,000\nand that population is served by 2 ice arenas. In contrast, Kamloops,\nBritish Columbia has a population of about 50,000 and has 5 rinks! There\nare also myriad ponds, pools, etc that freeze in the winter. Down here\nit's hard to find a kid without a bicycle; up there it's hard to find a kid\nwithout a pair of skates. And before you say \"what does he know? He's from\nCalifornia.\" let me say that I was born and raised in Trail, British Columbia,\na town of about 8,000 with lots of ice in the winter. My father did radio\nplay by play for the local team, the Trail Smokeaters, who by the way, were\nthe last Canadian team to win the World Championship (back in 1961). I was\non skates almost as soon as I could walk, and have been playing recreational\nhockey for about 35 years.\n\n\n\nLack of ice is a big factor, but costs is a bigger factor. Both my kids play for\nthe Santa Clara Valley Hockey Association and this season, which just ended,\ncost me $75 per kid for membership in Hockey USA, plus $750 per kid for club\ndues. The Hockey USA fees cover excess medical insurance, and the club dues\ncover ice time, officials, trophies, etc. Other areas have similar fees, unless\nthe city government subsidises some of the costs, as Stockton does.\n\nBy the way; most ice arenas are located in what could be called the \"inner city\"\nareas. Eastridge and Vallco are exceptions ... Redwood City's rink is in an\nindustrial area on Bay Rd, near 101, Berkeley's is near Ashby and Martin Luther\nKing, Stockton's is in Oak Park, Sacramento's is in an older section of downtown\n(I forget the name of the street), Fresno's is out on the edge of town, just west\nof 99. Santa Rosa's is a nice rink, but it's in an older section of town.\nDublin's is outside of town, off 580. Most of the rinks are old, and expensive\nto run, with huge electric bills and insurance premiums. If you want to buy ice\ntime expect to pay around $100 per hour at any of these rinks. Some of them\ngive you a 60 minute hour for your money; others give you a 50 minute hour and\ninclude the resurfacing time in the fee.\n\n", "\n\nI know it's very trendy nowadays to dump on Morris, but let's give credit\nwhere credit is due.\n\nIt is doubtful that the blue jays would have won the AL east without Morris.\nLast year, when the team went 13-15 for the month of August, and all the \nother starters were being shelled, and Milwaukee was making a charge,\nMorris went 5-1 with a pretty good era (I can't remember exactly).\nAlso, let's not underestimate the importance his 240+ innings to save \nthe bullpen every fifth day. If he didn't help us win the AL east, forget\nabout the pennent and the world series.\n\nHis run support was high (5.98 runs) but so was Stottlemyer's (5.90 runs)\nand he won only 12 games. I do remember Morris winning an inordinate number of\n6-5 and 8-6 ballgames, but this is to his credit. He pitched only as good\nas he needed to be. When he was up 6-1 in a ballgame, he just put it in cruise\ncontrol and threw the ball up there and let the batters \"get themseleves out\"\n(I hate this expression!). An inexperienced pitcher would wear himself out \ntrying to make perfect pitches to keep his era down. But Morris, being a \nveteran pitcher, knows that winning is the only thing that really matters in\nbaseball. By saving himself, he was able to reach back for that little extra\n(I hate this too!) when the game was on the line.\n\nYes Morris is crapping out big time this year, but let's not change history\nto suit the present. \n\nBTW, I think he should be put in the bullpen; it would be embarrassing a \nveteran pitcher which Cito would never do, but his era is 17+, how much more\ncan he be embarrassed?\n\n\nditto!\n", " I believe that the large number of digits on his paycheck (and\nit would not be binary) would help Don to be a fan of Ulf!, Jaro, and\nMario.", "\nSorry, Sherri, but I can't agree with this particular incident. While\nI'm all for cutting down the number of chain-rattles and other examples\nof rampant Hargroving, there was a difference here.\n\n1) Since time immemorial, batters have complained about calls.\nSo have pitchers and catchers. Usually, nothing happens.\nUnless the league notified teams this year about not allowing\ncomplaints, Hirschbeck was acting against expectations.\n\n2) It's not as if Gant was \"in Hirschbeck's face\". Gant said\nsomething about the call, stepped out of the box, and turned away\nfrom Hirschbeck. As a hitter (alibet of little consequence, but\nwith a decent eye), whenever receiving the short end of the stick\non a questionable call, I'd want a moment or two out of the box,\nif for no other reason than to rethink the strike zone based on\nthe experience of the last pitch. And if I was really angry\nat the ump, I'd rather turn away and catch my breath than\nturn to him and say something that might get me tossed,\nespecially at a key moment in the game.\n\nWhen Gant turned away, Hirschbeck IMMEDIATELY motioned for Gant\nto step into the box. IMO, at this point in time, Hirschbeck\nwas determined to show Gant exactly WHO was in charge of this game.\nGant wasn't dawdling; he hadn't had a chance to dawdle. And Hirschbeck\nwas simply exercising a power play. Gant resisted, as many of\nus might to what we thought was an unreasonable request, and\nHirschbeck called for the pitch. At that point, Cox came out on\nthe field, the pitch was thrown, and many other Braves left the\ndugout. Cox was tossed \"protecting his player\". I was pleasantly\nsurprised that Gant kept his cool enough to stay in the game.\n\nIt's a small sample size, but based on what I saw in that game,\nMark Hirschbeck has a hair-trigger temper and a need to play\nGod on the field. Not good qualities for an umpire. I will\nkeep my eyes open for future appearances of Hirschbeck in the \nfuture, in order to improve my sample size.\n\nIMO, any game where you remember the name of the umpire was\na bad game for the umpire.", "\n\tWell, if SHIT means going to the Stanley Cup finals a couple years\nago, I'd rather be shit than a leaf fan.\n", "I was on vacation all last week and didn't see any news at all. Could\nsomebody fill me in on how St. Louis ended up with Mark Whiten in a \ntrade? Who did we give up Arocha, Allen Watson, Dmitri Young, or did\nDal make a decent deal?\n\n:\n", "Just some thoughts:\n\nI don't usually like to post simply to make fun of a player,\nbut this time I couldn't resist. During the Pens-Devils game\nlast night, second period, I think Kevin Stevens was in the\npenalty box, Nicholls punched Kjell Samuellson in the face,\nthen raised his stick like a two handed sword to defend\nhimself! All Kjell could do, at 8'7\" and 355 pounds, was laugh!\n\nAnd speaking of Swedish Penguins defensemen, Ulf is getting a\nlittle out of hand lately. His cheap shots are getting more\nfrequent and more violent. As everybody in the Meadowlands\nexcept for the officials could see last night, he rammed the\nbutt of his stick down one of the Devil's throat. I've always\nsupported the argument \"he does his job by being irritating,\"\nbut he's starting to push it over the edge IMHO. Of course,\nHolik's chop to Barrasso's neck wasn't too sportsmanlike either.\nIt seems that he was following the \"The only way to beat the\nPenguins is to injure them\" philosophy.\n\nAs my Modern Drama professor pointed out to me the other day,\nJagr was stoned pretty well Tuesday night, and last night as\nwell, although the 30 seconds he danced around the Devils end\nwas pretty exciting.", "\ntoo bad he doesn't bring the ability to hit, pitch, field or run.", "True rumor. Fact! A big three way deal!\n\nEric Lindros going to Ottawa Senators. And Senators get $15mill from\nMontreal.\n\nMontreal gets Alexander Daigle (the first round pick from Senators)\n\nPhilly gets Damphousse, Bellow, Patrick Roy and a draft pick.\n", ": >\n: >\tOn Tuesday, when it was raining in Chicago, ESPN provided \n: >bonus hockey coverage. Now it seems as though some fans are ticked off\n: >that the NY-Wash OT was replaced with the Angels-?? game. People must\n: >realize that there are more baseball fans instead of hockey fans in the U.S \n: >The baseball game was scheduled to air and advertisers money was paid so\n: >they can't skip the baseball game. Why don't you people CHILL OUT\n: >and enjoy whatever coverage you can get.\n\nWell, partly because I, as an ardent fan of both sports, would rather\nsee Game 3 of the NHL playoffs than Game 3 of 162 of the MLB\nseason (even if the bb game involves the Red Sox).\t\n\nESPN may have had contractual obligations. I understand that part.\nBut it's a bit inaccurate to call us \"selfish\" just because we want\nto watch the watch the game we love. Am I, as a baseball fan, \"selfish\"\nwhen I get pissed a CBS for showing approximately one game per month?\nI don't think so.\n\nWhile, ESPN may have contractual obligations, we, as their consumers,\nhave a right to voice our displeasure with how they are serving us.\nThere's certainly nothing wrong with that.", "\n\n\n\n\nI'm not sure I understand this question. When the IF rule is invoked,\nthe batter is automatically out. This relieves the runners from being\nforced to advance to the next base if the ball is not caught. Other\nthan that, isn't it just the same as any situation in which a runner on\na base is not forced to the next base on a dropped fly ball? That is,\nif the ball is caught he can tag up and run (or decide to stay), and\nif the ball is dropped he can have left the base at any time.\n", "ekdfc@ttacs1.ttu.edu (David Coons):\n > > The rules say baseball is a game between two teams of nine\n > > players each. Let's keep it that way. \n\nniepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent):\n > Not any more the rules don't say that. So that's a pretty dumb\n > argument.\n\n\nREALLY??? My little mind be boggled! I don't have a 1993 Rule Book\nyet, so David, would you please post the new wording of Rule 1.01 -- I\nam MIGHTILY curious! Much thanks.", "MLB Standings and Scores for Friday, April 23rd, 1993\n\t (including yesterday's games)\n\nNATIONAL WEST\t Won Lost Pct. GB Last 10 Streak Home Road\nSan Francisco Giants 10 06 .625 -- 7-3 Won 1 05-02 05-04\nHouston Astros 08 06 .571 1.0 7-3 Won 1 02-04 06-02\nAtlanta Braves 09 08 .529 1.5 4-6 Lost 1 04-03 05-05\nSan Diego Padres 06 08 .429 3.0 5-5 Won 1 03-04 03-04\nLos Angeles Dodgers 06 10 .375 4.0 3-7 Lost 3 03-03 03-07\nColorado Rockies 05 09 .357 4.0 3-7 Lost 1 03-03 02-06\nCincinnati Reds 05 10 .333 4.5 4-6 Lost 1 02-04 03-06\n\nNATIONAL EAST\nPhiladelphia Phillies 10 04 .714 -- 7-3 Lost 1 06-02 04-02\nMontreal Expos 09 06 .600 1.5 7-3 Won 4 06-03 03-03\nSt. Louis Cardinals 09 06 .600 1.5 6-4 Won 1 06-03 03-03\nPittsburgh Pirates 08 07 .533 2.5 5-5 Won 1 04-04 04-03\nChicago Cubs 07 07 .500 3.0 5-5 Lost 1 04-04 03-03\nNew York Mets 07 07 .500 3.0 5-5 Lost 1 03-05 04-02\nFlorida Marlins 05 10 .333 5.5 3-7 Won 1 03-06 02-04\n\n\nAMERICAN WEST Won Lost Pct. GB Last 10 Streak Home Road\nCalifornia Angels 09 04 .692 -- 7-3 Won 3 06-02 03-02\nTexas Rangers 08 05 .615 1.0 5-5 Lost 2 04-02 04-03\nMinnesota Twins 08 06 .571 1.5 6-4 Won 1 05-04 03-02\nChicago White Sox 07 07 .500 2.5 5-5 Won 2 02-03 05-04\nSeattle Mariners 07 08 .467 3.0 4-6 Won 2 05-03 02-05\nOakland Athletics 05 08 .385 4.0 3-7 Lost 2 05-04 00-04\nKansas City Royals 05 10 .333 5.0 5-5 Lost 1 03-06 02-04\n\nAMERICAN EAST\nBoston Red Sox 11 05 .688 -- 7-3 Lost 2 06-01 05-04\nDetroit Tigers 09 05 .643 1.0 8-2 Won 2 07-01 02-04\nNew York Yankees 08 07 .533 2.5 5-5 Won 2 03-03 05-04\nToronto Blue Jays 08 07 .533 2.5 5-5 Won 1 04-02 04-05\nMilwaukee Brewers 05 07 .417 4.0 4-6 Lost 1 02-02 03-05\nCleveland Indians 05 11 .313 6.0 2-8 Lost 4 04-03 01-08\nBaltimore Orioles 04 09 .308 5.5 4-6 Lost 2 02-05 02-04\n\n\n\t\t\t YESTERDAY'S SCORES\n (IDLE teams listed in alphabetical order)\n\nNATIONAL LEAGUE\t\t\t\tAMERICAN LEAGUE\n\nSan Diego Padres\t2\t\tBoston Red Sox 0\nPhiladelphia Phillies\t1\t\tSeattle Mariners 7\n\nLos Angeles Dodgers\t1\t\tChicago White Sox\t3\nMontreal Expos\t\t3\t\tBaltimore Orioles 2\n\nCincinnati Reds\t\t4\t\tMilwaukee Brewers 4\nPittsburgh Pirates\t5\t\tMinnesota Twins\t 5\n\nAtlanta Braves\t\t3\t\tToronto Blue Jays\t6\nFlorida Marlins\t\t4\t\tKansas City Royals\t3\n\nColorado Rockies 2\t\tCleveland Indians\t0\nSt. Louis Cardinals\t5\t\tCalifornia Angels\t8\n\nSan Francisco Giants 13\t\tNew York Yankees\t5\nNew York Mets\t 4\t\tOakland Athletics\t1\n\nChicago Cubs IDLE\t\tDetroit Tigers IDLE\nHouston Astros IDLE\t\tTexas Rangers\t IDLE\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nJoseph Hernandez | RAMS | | /.\\ ******* _|_|_ / | LAKERS\njtchern@ocf.Berkeley.EDU | KINGS | |__ | | DODGERS _|_|_ | | RAIDERS\njtcent@soda.Berkeley.EDU | ANGELS |____||_|_| ******* | | |___| CLIPPERS", "\nThe French Canadian rule was an extremely short term feature when the\nuniversal draft was instituted in the sixties and only lasted for a\nfew years...and really didn't have any substantial effect during that\nperiod. The Canadiens Stanley Cup achievements were earned on a\nlevel playing field.", "\nBob, I think that Stark does this sort of thing as a joke, not as a\nserious prediction. I don't really see why we should shoot him for\nthat. The guys who ought to be shot are the ones who keep claiming\nhow great the Royals' chances are in the AL West, since all evidence\nindicates that they aren't joking and actually believe it.", "\n\nWow. So that's probably the reason why current assistant coach Drew Ramenda\nhinted that he won't be back. Thanks for the news, Mikko; can you (or any\nof our Finnish netters) comment on Tichonov?", "Just a little something I found while reading the Village Voice, which\nis not noted for its sports coverage, but occasionally the print some\ninteresting features. This year, the predictions/team analyses for\nthe 1993 season were presented in the form of Bob Dylan lyrics. I\ndon't have the article in front of me, so I'll only give the memorable\nones here that I remember and know the melody to. I could dig up more\nif there is interest.\n\nYankess (to the tune of \"Subterranean Homesick Blues\")\n\nHowe is in the basement, mixing up the medicine.\nGeorge is on the pavement thinking 'bout the government.\nWade Boggs in a trench coat, bat out, paid off,\nSays he's got a bad back, wants to get it laid off.\nLook out kids, it's somethin' you did.\nDon't know when, but it's Columbus again.\n\nMets (to the tune of \"Like a Rolling Stone\")\n\nOnce upon a time you played so fine\nyou threw away Dykstra before his prime, didn't you?\nPeople said \"Beware Cone, he's bound to roam\"\nBut you thought they were just kidding you.\nYou used to laugh about, \nThe Strawberry that was headin' out.\nBut now you don't talk so loud,\nNow you don't seem so proud,\nAbout having to shop Vince Coleman for your next deal....\n\nPhillies (to the tune of \"Highway 61\")\n\nWell Daulton and Dykstra should have some fun,\nJust keep them off of Highway 61!\n\nGiants (to the tune of \"The Ballad of Rubin 'Hurricane' Carter\")\n\nThis is the story of the Magowan,\nThe man St. Petersburg came to pan,\nFor something that he never done,\nHe sits in the owner's box but one...\nDay he could have been the Tampian of the world!\n\n_______________________________________________________________________________\nBill Moakler\t\t |\tLPO 10280 |\t!RUTGERS ANIME!\nmoakler@remus.rutgers.edu| PO BOX 5064 | !ATLANTIC ANIME ALLIANCE!\n(908)-932-3465 \t |New Brunswick, NJ 08903| !CHIBI-CON '93!", "\n\nHave there ever been any other no-hitters in Mariner history?", "Who holds the record for most career strikeouts while playing for one team?\nWho holds the record for most career strikeouts for the Rangers?\n(Hint: Nolan Ryan isn't either)\n\nWhat two pitchers have over 100 career saves for two different teams?\n\nWho is the only player to hit 300 or more career home runs and steal 300 or \nmore career bases for the same team?\n\nNo fair peeking at your baseball stats....\n", "\nActually, this part was really interesting. It turns out that the mask is\ncustom-fit to the goalie's face. The goalie puts his/her face through a\npiece of wood (or was it plastic?) with a hole in it that allows only the face\nand forehead to show. Hair is covered by a cap, eyes are covered by a plastic\nwrap-type material, and vaseline is put on the goaltender's face. Then, a\nplaster is spread on their cheeks, forehead, and chin which takes about 12\nminutes to dry sufficiently. When it dries, it is effectively a mold of the\ngoalie's face. This is used as the basis of the mask (the rest involves\npadding the inside, hardening the exterior, fitting the cage, etc. etc. \nJohn Blue of the Bruins actually demonstrated the procedure on the show. \n\n\nYeah, Essensa's mask looked really good.\n \n\nActually, I thought I heard him say that it _was_ Potvin's for certain. I\nwould bet money on it either way...and it did look awesome!\n", "Hell, the Orioles' Opening Day game could easily be the largest in history\nif we had a stadium with 80,000 seats. But unfortunely the Yards (a\ndefinitely excellent ballpark) only holds like 45,000 with 275 SRO spots.\nTicket sales for the entire year is moving fast. Bleacher seats are almost\ngone for every game this year. It's a extremely likelyhood that the O's\ncould sell out every game this year (especially if we lead the division for\nmost of the year like '89). \n\tOn another front, the sale of the Orioles to anyone is likely to be\nforced upon Eli Jacobs who is major debt apparently. Maybe we can get an\nowner willing to spend on a proven rightfielder free agent in the winter.\n\tFernando has made the O's as the fifth starter. The O's pitching\nstaff looks pretty good. Sutcliffe, Mussina, McDonald, Rhodes, and Fernando.\n\tBaltimore is my pick for the victors in a very competitive AL East.\n__________________________________________________________________________\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n Second to last day of the season - Gregg (The True Wild Thing) Olson\nuncorks a wild pitch allowing the Blue Jays to tie. Blue Jays win in the\n11th and ends the Baby Birds' miracle season of '89.\n", "Philadelphia 1 1 2 1--5\nHartford 1 2 1 0--4\nFirst period\n 1, Hartford, Nylander 10 (unassisted) 8:51.\n 2, Philadelphia, Recchi 53 (Lindros, Brind'Amour) pp, 19:59.\nSecond period\n 3, Hartford, Burt 6 (Cunneyworth, Kron) 2:00.\n 4, Philadelphia, Bowen 1 (Eklund, Recchi) 7:09.\n 5, Hartford, Nylander 11 (Zalapski, Sanderson) 9:38.\nThird period\n 6, Hartford, Kron 14 (Sanderson, Cassels) pp, 1:24.\n 7, Philadelphia, Beranek 15 (Lomakin, Yushkevich) 3:11.\n 8, Philadelphia, Faust 2 (Brind'Amour, Roussel) 3:38.\nOvertime\n 9, Philadelphia, Yushkevich 5 (Faust) 1:15.\n\nPhiladelphia: 5 Power play: 4-1\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nBeranek 1 0 1\nBowen 1 0 1\nBrind'Amour 0 2 2\nEklund 0 1 1\nFaust 1 1 2\nLindros 0 1 1\nLomakin 0 1 1\nRecchi 1 1 2\nRoussel 0 1 1\nYushkevich 1 1 2\n\nHartford: 4 Power play: 4-1\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nBurt 1 0 1\nCassels 0 1 1\nCunneyworth 0 1 1\nKron 1 1 2\nNylander 2 0 2\nSanderson 0 2 2\nZalapski 0 1 1\n\n-----------------------------------------\nNew Jersey 0 3 1--4\nNY Islanders 3 3 2--8\nFirst period\n 1, NY Islanders, Turgeon 56 (unassisted) 4:11.\n 2, NY Islanders, Thomas 36 (Malakhov, King) pp, 5:58.\n 3, NY Islanders, Ferraro 14 (Dalgarno, Malakhov) 18:16.\nSecond period\n 4, New Jersey, Niedermayer 11 (Richer, Nicholls) 0:41.\n 5, NY Islanders, Mullen 18 (Vaske, Dalgarno) 1:15.\n 6, NY Islanders, Thomas 37 (Hogue, Norton) 2:12.\n 7, New Jersey, Zelepukin 23 (unassisted) 17:11.\n 8, New Jersey, Richer 38 (Nicholls, Daneyko) 17:23.\n 9, NY Islanders, Hogue 33 (Flatley, Ferraro) 18:42.\nThird period\n 10, NY Islanders, Turgeon 57 (unassisted) 3:45.\n 11, New Jersey, Semak 37 (Lemieux, Driver) 9:06.\n 12, NY Islanders, Turgeon 58 (King, Pilon) 10:21.\n\nNY Islanders: 8 Power play: 4-1\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nDalgarno 0 2 2\nFerraro 1 1 2\nFlatley 0 1 1\nHogue 1 1 2\nKing 0 2 2\nMalakhov 0 2 2\nMullen 1 0 1\nNorton 0 1 1\nPilon 0 1 1\nThomas 2 0 2\nTurgeon 3 0 3\nVaske 0 1 1\n\nNew Jersey: 4 Power play: 2-0\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nDaneyko 0 1 1\nDriver 0 1 1\nLemieux 0 1 1\nNicholls 0 2 2\nNiedermayer 1 0 1\nRicher 1 1 2\nSemak 1 0 1\nZelepukin 1 0 1\n\n-----------------------------------------\nNY Rangers 1 0 1--2\nWashington 1 1 2--4\nFirst period\n 1, NY Rangers, Graves 36 (Zubov, Andersson) 6:17.\n 2, Washington, Ridley 26 (unassisted) 18:33.\nSecond period\n 3, Washington, Hatcher 34 (Johansson) 12:19.\nThird period\n 4, Washington, Jones 12 (May) 2:49.\n 5, Washington, Cote 21 (Khristich, Pivonka) pp, 18:55.\n 6, NY Rangers, Gartner 45 (Amonte, Andersson) pp, 19:50.\n\nWashington: 4 Power play: 7-1\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nCote 1 0 1\nHatcher 1 0 1\nJohansson 0 1 1\nJones 1 0 1\nKhristich 0 1 1\nMay 0 1 1\nPivonka 0 1 1\nRidley 1 0 1\n\nNY Rangers: 2 Power play: 4-1\nScorer G A Pts\n--------------- --- --- ---\nAmonte 0 1 1\nAndersson 0 2 2\nGartner 1 0 1\nGraves 1 0 1\nZubov 0 1 1\n", "PATRICK\n1st rd:\tPens over Isles in 4.\n\tDevils over Caps in 6.\n2nd:\tPens over Devils in 7.\n\nADAMS\n1st rd: B's over Sabres in 5.\n\tNords over Habs in 5.\n2nd:\tB's over Nords in 6.\n\nNORRIS\n1st:\tHawks over Stars/Blues in 5.\n\tWings over Leafs in 7.\n2nd:\tHawks over Wings in 5.\n\nSMYTHE\n1st:\tJets over Canucks in 7.\t(call it a hunch)\n\tFlames over Kings in 5.\n2nd:\tJets over Flames in 6.\n\nWALES\nPens over B's in 7.\t\n\nCAMPBELL\nHawks over Jets in 5.\n\nSTANLEY\nPens over Hawks in 5.", "WATCH OUT PITSBURGH HERE COME THE ISLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!\n\n\n\nThey said we wouldn't make the playoffs and we came in third\nThey said the Caps would beat us and they're not going to\nThey say that Pitsburgh has a 1:1 ratio of winning the cup but We'll prove them\nwrong.\n\n\nL E T S G O I S L A N D E R S!!!!!!! Bring it back home\n\n\n\n\n", "Team Canada defeated Russia 3-1 to finish the priliminary \nround unbeaten at 5-0. Scoring for the Canadians were Kevin Dineen of \nthe Flyers, Eric Lindros also of the Flyers and Paul Cariya of the \nMaine Black Bears. Cariya has put on quite a show at the Worlds. He is \nsure to be drafted in the top 3 this summer at the NHL entry draft.\n\n\tCanada defeated Italy 11-2 and Austria 11-0 before meeting the \nRussians on Sunday. The Canadians now face Finland in the Quarter -\nfinals on Tuesday.\n", "Can the Sabres win two more games against the Bruins?\n\nI think game three in Buffalo will be the most important of the\nseries. If the Sabres lose that game, the party will be over. It will \nbe hello next year.\n\nThe key for the remaining games in the series will be whether Fuhr can\nkeep up his brillliant goaltending and if Mogilny can continue skate by \nthe Bruins. He has shown demonstrated excellent speed.\n\nFinally, the Sabres appear to have shown up for the post season.\n\n\n\n\n", "that\nhis\npositive.\n\n\tClint Malarchuk\n\n\n What has happened to him since?\n\n\tAssigned to San Diego Gulls at the being of the season I believe\n\n What\n\nIt was Uwe Krupp and a Blues player, though Uwe's skate I beleive cut \nClint. He has since be traded to the Isles in the LaFontaine deal.\n\n Has this ever\n\nThis is the only time I know of. \n", ".\n.\n.\n\nESPN had the Houston Astros @ Chicago Cubs game scheduled for last night on the\nwest coast. \n\nSince the game was rained out, they showed the Toronto Maple Leafs at the\nDetroit Red Wings game instead.", "\nThe Fat Lady is about to hit the first note...Okay,how about 3-0 deficits?\nThe B's chances for a comeback are now less 1%(That's based on 7-game\nplayoff format)...\n\n \nHe got the start but the headlines on all Boston local TV sportscats\nsaid it all : \"Sutter Blue It!\". And he did.\n\nHarry Sinden's appearance outside of B's dressing room after Game 3\nwas a pathetic site. He said something really retarded to cover Sutter's\nbehind,\"This game is not about winning or losing..\". Harry,check the\nschedule! Your team is in the playoffs and about to go on a long summer\nvacation on Sunday morning!\n\nHarry and his buttkisser Milbury will never admit that they screwed up\nin a major way when they brought in one of the dumbest people in the\nbusiness,Brian Sutter. Sutter's playoff record as the head coach in St.Louis\nspeaks for itself. The Blues really have a chance to advance to the\nsecond round this year...", "\n\nUnfortunately, that is the way the league is heading... You can't fight,\nso the only way to retaliate against someone is with a cheap shot when\nthe ref isn't looking. Ulf has brought this to a high level... Players\nstuck in the past (like Neely) who prefer fights to cheap shots\nare at a disadvantage in the new system.\n\nLets face it, A cheap shot (like high sticking) is a very effective\nmethod... It is easier to hide from the refs, has a better chance of\ncausing injury, and you can draw people into fights that way. I don't\nlike it, but that's the way the league is going.", "quoted for future reference...\n\n\nHe believed one of two things: 1) Sabo was more likely than Samuel\nto get a hit OR 2) that more good would be done in the long run\nby leaving Sabo in regardless of the expectation of the actual outcome.\n\nIn fact you don't know what Perez had in mind when he left Sabo in.\n\n\nIn fact, I don't think anyone is claiming that they can predict\nthe future, or any particular future event. But we can believe\nthat certain trends are due to a cause (whether or not we have\nidentified the cause) and therefore will continue.\n\n\nI think seeing insults in other people's opinions is kind of silly.\nAfter all, Mark didn't call you a total idiot, or call your work\nstupid, he simply stated that it didn't change his opinion on the \nsubject.\n\n\nIf player A hits better on Tuesdays and always has, and Mark believes\nthat it might be an indication that he will hit on Tuesday better next\nseason as well, would you respond the same way? At some point you\nmight admit that all variable might not be known to you (who knows\nwhat this guy does every Monday night? Maybe he sees his sports\nshrink on Tuesday mornings, or has his Vitamin B shots Monday nights?)\n\nBut this is something that's true of one guy only. It doesn't\nmean that there will be a meaningful correlation for the entire\nleague by days of the week, nor that there should be. But it doesn't\nmean we can't make predictions based on that for that particular\nplayer.\n\n\nI only see a prediction for one player here. I don't see anything\nabout ALL batters.\n\n\nThat's exactly what Mark is trying to do though. Find hitters\nthat have these correlation and ask whether we can make predictions\nfor these hitters based on their past performance.\n\n\nHuh? What does gambler's fallacy have to do with anything?\nWhether you can know the reason for correlation or not, you can't\ndeny that it has existent, you can only make an argument that\nyou don't think it is likely to continue to exist because you\ncan't see a reason for it to exist.\n\n\nSomeone posted recently on why negative clutch would correlate.\nThe argument along the lines of star player with L/R splits will\nalways see an adverse condition in late innings of a close game\n(i.e. opposing manager will always bring in a AH pitcher to\nface him, where his manager will not pull him for a PH)\n\n\nWhat about you? If the shoe fits, will you wear it with an open mind?", "\nI remember one he hit circa 1976 at Wrigley Field that went across\nthe street (in dead center field) and hit a house on the roof. He\nwhiffed a lot, but when he *did* connect, watch out!\n\n\n\n\n-- \n\n#include ", "Standings reflecting 2 completed series in Round 1:\n\n Participant Points Final 4\n 1. roland_behunin 5 CAL-6 QUE-7 QUE-7 \n Dave_Wessels 5 VAN-7 PIT-6 PIT-5 \n 3. Barfly 0 TOR-6 BOS-7 TOR-6 \n Dean's 0 DET-5 PIT-5 PIT-7 \n Oz 0 LAK-6 BOS-6 LAK-6 \n Garry 0 TOR-6 BOS-6 BOS-4 \n Brian_Bergman 0 DET-6 PIT-6 DET-6 \n Mopar_Muscle_Men 0 CHI-5 PIT-6 PIT-5 \n BH's_Last_Place_Picks 0 CHI-5 PIT-6 PIT-5 \n Milton_Keynes_Kings 0 DET-6 PIT-5 PIT-5 \n Sam_&_His_Dogs 0 DET-6 PIT-5 PIT-5 \n Ye_Ding 0 DET-6 PIT-5 PIT-6 \n Tampere_Stars 0 CHI-6 PIT-6 PIT-6 \n The_Mighty_Hedgehogs_Of_Myllyp 0 CHI-6 BOS-6 BOS-6 \n Homesick_Hawaiian 0 VAN-7 PIT-6 PIT-5 \n Killer_Kings 0 CHI-6 WAS-6 CHI-6 \n Puggy_Greybeards 0 DET-5 PIT-5 PIT-5 \n Ottawa_Bearcats 0 TOR-5 PIT-6 TOR-6 \n Andrew_Kirk 0 TOR-6 PIT-6 PIT-5 \n Muller_n_Walker 0 DET-6 PIT-6 PIT-6 \n Excalibur 0 DET-6 PIT-4 PIT-6 \n Rednecks_from_Hockey_Hell 0 DET-7 BOS-5 BOS-5 \n The_@$%@#$%_Rangers_of_1940 0 CHI-6 PIT-7 PIT-6 \n Jeff_Phelps 0 DET-6 PIT-6 PIT-5 \n Arctic_Circles 0 DET-6 PIT-6 PIT-4 \n Sludge 0 DET-6 PIT-6 DET-6 \n The_Logistician 0 DET-6 PIT-6 DET-7 \n Hillside_Raiders 0 CHI-6 BOS-6 BOS-7 \n Danielle 0 CHI-5 QUE-7 QUE-7 \n Stanias_Stars 0 CHI-6 BOS-7 BOS-6 \n BloodHook 0 DET-5 PIT-5 PIT-5 \n Gilles_Carmel 0 CHI-6 PIT-7 PIT-7 \n Pasi_Fr{nti 0 LAK-7 PIT-5 PIT-6 \n Evan_Pritchard 0 VAN-6 PIT-6 PIT-5 \n Skriko_Wolves 0 DET-7 PIT-5 PIT-5 \n Rangers_Blow 0 CAL-7 PIT-6 PIT-4 \n Sean 0 DET-5 PIT-5 PIT-6 \n Schott_Shooters 0 CHI-6 PIT-5 PIT-5 \n Gary_Shiff 0 TOR-4 PIT-6 PIT-4 \n Mike_Burger 0 DET-7 PIT-6 DET-7 \n Darse 0 DET-6 PIT-6 PIT-6\n", "1993 World Championships in Germany:\n ====================================\n\n Group A results:\n\n RUSSIA - SWITZERLAND 6-0 (2-0,1-0,3-0)\n\n 1st: RUS 1-0 Alexei Yashin 1 5:23\n RUS 2-0 Alexei Yashin 2 16:45\n 2nd: RUS 3-0 Ilia Biakin 1 7:13\n 3rd: RUS 4-0 Andrei Khomutov 3 3:47\n RUS 5-0 Ilia Biakin 2 4:13\n RUS 6-0 Sergei Sorokin 1 13:50\n\n Penalties: RUS 7*2min 1*5min game penalty, SWI 9*2min\n Referee: Rob Hearn, USA\n Attendance: 3,500\n\n- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -\n\n CANADA - AUSTRIA 11-0 (6-0,2-0,3-0)\n\n 1st: CAN 1-0 Shayne Corson 1 9:51\n CAN 2-0 Rod Brind'Amour 2 10:24\n CAN 3-0 Paul Kariya 1 12:42\n CAN 4-0 Gerry Galley 1 18:23\n CAN 5-0 Eric Lindros 2 19:11\n CAN 6-0 Rod Brind'Amour 3 19:46\n 2nd: CAN 7-0 Eric Lindros 3 0:31\n CAN 8-0 Eric Lindros 4 8:50\n 3rd: CAN 9-0 Brian Savage 1 13:37\n CAN 10-0 Brian Benning 1 16:26\n CAN 11-0 Geoff Sanderson 3 17:55\n\n Penalties: CAN 2*2min, AUT 2*2min\n Attendance: 7,500\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n USA - FRANCE 6-1 (3-1,1-0,2-0)\n\n 1st: FRA 0-1 Antoine Richer 1 5:02\n USA 1-1 Adam Burt 1 8:32\n USA 2-1 Rob Gaudreau 1 18:15\n USA 3-1 Jeff Lazaro 1 18:29\n 2nd: USA 4-1 Adam Burt 2 10:54\n 3rd: USA 5-1 Shjon Podein 1 8:03\n USA 6-1 Rob Gaudreau 2 16:25\n\n Penalties: USA 3*2min, FRA 2*2min\n Referee: Darren Loraas, Canada\n Attendance: 1,511\n\n- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -\n\n FINLAND - NORWAY 2-0 (0-0,0-0,2-0)\n\n 1st:\n 2nd:\n 3rd: FIN 1-0 Juha Riihijarvi 1 4:16\n FIN 2-0 Kari Harila 1 12:37\n\n Penalties: FIN 5*2min, NOR 7*2min\n Referee: Sven-Erik Sold, Sweden\n Attendance: 3,600\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n The best goal scorers:\n\n Eric Lindros\t\tCAN\t4\n Rod Brind'Amour\tCAN\t3\n Dieter Hegen\t\tGER\t3\n Andrei Khomutov\tRUS\t3\n Geoff Sanderson\tCAN\t3\n Ilia Biakin\t\tRUS\t2\n Adam Burt\t\tUSA\t2\n Viacheslav Bykov\tRUS\t2\n Jiri Dolezal\t\tCZE\t2\n Mike Gartner\t\tCAN\t2\n Rob Gaudreau\t\tUSA\t2\n Patrik Juhlin\t\tSWE\t2\n Frank Pajonkowski\tFRA\t2\n Bernd Truntschka\tGER\t2\n Jarkko Varvio\t\tFIN\t2\n Alexei Yashin\t\tRUS\t2\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n Some WC stats:\n\n * Fastest goal in a WC game after first face-off:\n\n 10 seconds:\t Steve Larmer, Canada 1991 in a game vs Sweden (ended 3-3)\n Boris Michailov, USSR 1978\n\n * Most consecutive WC games without a loss:\n\n 47: USSR 1978-85\n 38: USSR 1963-68\n 37: Canada 1937-49\n 35: USSR 1985-90\n 27: Canada 1950-54\n", "During the first three games of the Pens-Devils series, I have been\nimpressed time and time again by the pure talent of the Pens. Jagr,\nMacEachern and Barrasso have been especially fun to watch. But, one\nelement of this team which goes unnoticed seems to be Scotty Bowman.\n\nDespite Brooks' lunatic comments, and despite the Devils' line changing\nadantage in last night's game, Bowman has been able to keep his cool and\nkeep the Devils in the dark. Granted, the hell-dwellers had the Pens\nbottled up for a while last night, but Bowman was eventually able to\nconfigure his line-up to get the job done. His ability to throw out new\nlooks and strategies at a moments notice is incredible.\n\nBowman seems to have a terrific ability of reading his players on an\nindividual basis. Last night, for instance, he realized that the speed\nof Jagr, Straka, and MacEachern was throwing the Devils off balance. As\na result, Straka received many more shifts than average; Jagr played\nalmost the entire game (he was always on the puck), and MacEachern\nscored a goal, while complementing Jagr many times throughout the night.\nHis ability to commit to one player in crucial situations is\ncommendable, especially when a coach of such a talented team might\nsimply rely on the overall talent to dominate, and to bring about\nsuccess.", "\nIMO any good player should score on power plays because of the man\nadvantage. Very good power play scorers tend to become overrated\nbecause their point totals are inflated by power play points.\n+/- tends to expose these overrated players such as Brett Hull,\nJohn Cullen and Dave Andreychuck.\n\nGiven the opportunity to play power play consistently, any player can\ninflate his totals.", "Does anyone know if the Dick Estelle who does the Radio Reader on NPR is one in\nthe same with the lefty who pitched briefly for the Jints in '64 & '65?\n\nJust curious.\n\n--->Paul, spending too much time reading the baseball encyclopedia\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n We will stretch no farm animal beyond its natural length\n\n paula@koufax.cv.hp.com Paul Andresen Hewlett-Packard (503)-750-3511", "\nday.\n\nPersonality means something to me. That is exactly why I like Clement\n(and Emrick). On the other hand, JD is a pompous, bull-headed, arrogant\nknow-it-all. He's a real turn-off (which is exactly what I do when he's\non). One complaint I do have about Clement is that he sometimes talks\ntoo much. If I wanted that I'd listen to Tim McGarver doing a baseball\ngame.", "\nAnd they deserve to be, if for no other reason than salvaging a little of the\nhonor of the NL West. The supposed strongest division in baseball lost 6 of 7\nto the East yesterday, with only the Astros prevailing.\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n We will stretch no farm animal beyond its natural length\n\n paula@koufax.cv.hp.com Paul Andresen Hewlett-Packard (503)-750-3511", " \n \n And Dino Ciccarelli and Ray Sheppard and so on and so on.....\n \n : )", "\n\nI'm confused. How is it Hal McRae's fault that he can't win with a team \nwhose best offensive player is Phil Hiatt? I mean, let's be real. Kansas\nCity will have to get outstanding years from their entire staff just to end\nup near .500; they have less offense than any other team in baseball, even\nif you count the expansion teams.\n\n", "O.K., only one series is done. But I need to post something.\n\nBy the way, the Islanders just scored.\n\n\nRank Team Name Points Final 4\n 1. roland_behunin 5 CAL-6 QUE-7 QUE-7 \n 2. Milton_Keynes_Kings 0 DET-6 PIT-5 PIT-5 \n Barfly 0 TOR-6 BOS-7 TOR-6 \n Dean's 0 DET-5 PIT-5 PIT-7 \n Oz 0 LAK-6 BOS-6 LAK-6 \n Garry 0 TOR-6 BOS-6 BOS-4 \n Brian_Bergman 0 DET-6 PIT-6 DET-6 \n Mopar_Muscle_Men 0 CHI-5 PIT-6 PIT-5 \n BH's_Last_Place_Picks 0 CHI-5 PIT-6 PIT-5 \n Dave_Wessels 0 VAN-7 PIT-6 PIT-5 \n Sam_&_His_Dogs 0 DET-6 PIT-5 PIT-5 \n Ye_Ding 0 DET-6 PIT-5 PIT-6 \n Tampere_Stars 0 CHI-6 PIT-6 PIT-6 \n The_Mighty_Hedgehogs_Of_Myllyp 0 CHI-6 BOS-6 BOS-6 \n Homesick_Hawaiian 0 VAN-7 PIT-6 PIT-5 \n Killer_Kings 0 CHI-6 WAS-6 CHI-6 \n Puggy_Greybeards 0 DET-5 PIT-5 PIT-5 \n Ottawa_Bearcats 0 TOR-5 PIT-6 TOR-6 \n Andrew_Kirk 0 TOR-6 PIT-6 PIT-5 \n Muller_n_Walker 0 DET-6 PIT-6 PIT-6 \n Excalibur 0 DET-6 PIT-4 PIT-6 \n Rednecks_from_Hockey_Hell 0 DET-7 BOS-5 BOS-5 \n The_@$%@#$%_Rangers_of_1940 0 CHI-6 PIT-7 PIT-6 \n Jeff_Phelps 0 DET-6 PIT-6 PIT-5 \n Arctic_Circles 0 DET-6 PIT-6 PIT-4 \n Sludge 0 DET-6 PIT-6 DET-6 \n The_Logistician 0 DET-6 PIT-6 DET-7 \n Hillside_Raiders 0 CHI-6 BOS-6 BOS-7\n Danielle 0 CHI-5 QUE-7 QUE-7\n Stanias_Stars 0 CHI-6 BOS-7 BOS-6\n BloodHook 0 DET-5 PIT-5 PIT-5\n Gilles_Carmel 0 CHI-6 PIT-7 PIT-7\n Pasi_Fr{nti 0 LAK-7 PIT-5 PIT-6\n Evan_Pritchard 0 VAN-6 PIT-6 PIT-5\n Skriko_Wolves 0 DET-7 PIT-5 PIT-5\n Rangers_Blow 0 CAL-7 PIT-6 PIT-4\n Sean 0 DET-5 PIT-5 PIT-6\n Schott_Shooters 0 CHI-6 PIT-5 PIT-5\n Gary_Shiff 0 TOR-4 PIT-6 PIT-4\n Mike_Burger 0 DET-7 PIT-6 DET-7\n Darse 0 DET-6 PIT-6 PIT-6\n\n", "Is there any doubt that this is true? After a few down years, the A.L. East\nis back to where it was in the early eighties. With the emergence of the O's\nand the Yanks, it is far and away the best. While the N.L. West has the best\nteam in baseball, and the Reds aren't bad either, they have nothing else. The\nGiants, Astros, and Padres all have talent, they do not have the all arounf\nteams that are found in the A.L. East. And the Dodgers just plain suck. As\nfor the Rockies, who knows?\n The A.L. East has the defending champs, and although they lost a lot to\nfree agency, Toronto is still one of the best in baseball. The Orioles have\nthe preseason favorite to win the Cy Young in Mike Mussina, and you can never\nforget about Ripken. The signings of Harold Baines and Harold Reynolds don't\nhurt to much either, although I always liked Bill Ripken. While they let a\nlot go this summer (Randy Milligan, Joe Orsulak, Bill Ripken, Bob Milacki, Sam\nHorn, Storm Davis, and Craig Lefferts), they kept the heart of their team\nintact.\n\nMy predicted finish:\n1. Baltimore (Could be a biased opinion)\n2. NY Yankees\n3. Toronto\n4. Milwaukee\n5. Detroit\n6. Boston\n7. Cleveland (Would have been higher if not for the accident)\n\nGo O's!!!!!!!!", "\nYes, he does. BUT, the goalie sure as hell doesn't want him there! When\nI played roller hockey (boy do I miss those days) as a goalie, I would\nscream at my defense to clear guys out of the slot. I don't care if he's\nin the crease or not, get him the hell away from me so I can see the ball!\n(Yes, roller hockey, remember) And if there was nobody around to clear\nthe slot, then I'd do it myself by pushing the offending player--*hard*. \nI *hate* people in my way when I'm the goalie, and I am sure Felix does\ntoo. I should say that I didn't see the incident, so if Potvin really\nswung the stick big time, then that's not right, but he can move people\nout of the way. He's a player on the ice too, you know. :-)\n", "\nPlease count me in also...\n\nJust can't tell you how excited I was when the Islanders beat the Rangers\nin overtime on last Friday!!!", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\tWhat's the difference between Nolan Ryan and Yount? Both have hung\naround for years, and continue to post great stats. Why shouldn't Dave Kingman\nget into the Hall? Or Murray, Evens, Reardon, and others? What the hell do\nyou have to do? Ask an opposing pitcher whether he thinks that Winfield should\nbe in the hall... God. Pretty soon you'll be saying that Cal Ripken doesn't\ndeserve to be in the Hall. Then, I'll flame you. :-)\n\n\n\n\n", "\nReally? What makes you think the Islanders have a better shot? They\ncouldn't even beat the Whalers in two games!\n\n(Well, since you're a Pens fans the whole question is moot. I think\nthe teams most likely to beat the Pens are the Bruins, Nordiques, and\nBlackhawks but I don't think they can really do it. :-))", "I just overheard that San Jose Coach George Kingston was officially\nterminated today... Maybe good news, maybe bad. I kinda liked him, but he\nseemed to lack a certain fire.\n", "\nAre you kidding? I'm stuck with the Toronto SkyDome, where their idea\nof a 7th inning stretch is that \"Blue Jays\" song where everyone gets\nto yell: \"Okay, okay, Blue Jays, Blue Jays, Let's Play Ball!\"\n\nWow.. what genius did it take to compose that one, to outshine the\nold classic. And there are women on the field to \"lead the crowd\".", "\nObviously, it is ultimately the teams choice...the NHL would obviously\nprefer not to annoy the European hockey federations, but the NHL right\nnow cannot force NHL teams to free their players...the Whalers probably\ndid it this way so as to not annoy their farm team affiliate.", "\n\nAttention Penguins fans once again, apparently 99.999% of you understand that\nthis was just a joke (Hence the :-) next to it) but one idiot on here doesn't\nas he got pissed at me and sent me two hate e-mails telling me that this is\nwrong. I have no intentions of sending e-mail to anyone should the Pens win\ntonight, and I really do not expect/do not intend to lead any of you to send\nthis poster e-mail either. It was NOT a serious request. If you didn't know\nthat (which you probably did) then don't do it. Thanks.", "To Mr. Millitello -\n\n\tListen, Sammy, can you explain why Buck pitched you in relief\nyesterday? I figure no-one would know this better than you yourself.\n\nJason A. Miller\n\"some doctor guy\"", " (Eric Roush) writes...\n\n\n\n\nFunny. I didn't realize Mr. Tanner brought up Bob Knepper v. Pam Postema\nin the first place. Thought it was someone named Jacobs.\n\n\nWhy? If a statement is truly idiotic, and is universally thought so,\nthe challenge is a waste of panting. Further, challenges that have\nnothing (yes, nothing) to do with *baseball* are wasting others' time.\n\nYou got a problem with what Bob Knepper thinks? Let's hear it, in\nsome sort of categorical manner. (Actually, I question whether either\nKnepper or Postema aren't \"old news\" at this point, although what I\nhave read of Postema's book is interesting.)\n\n\nI agree this far.\n\n\nSez you.\n\n\nThat does not come out in what you say down the road, here.\n\n\nYo. Even elementary school children have had access to our postings,\nalbeit in an edited form. You want them to hear you talk like this?\nDon't you want people who come to this group to talk baseball to think\nyou like to do the same? Or do you want them to think you're some \npolitically correct demagogue who's oh-so sensitive? (Ho-hum.)\n\nPlus, you're here limiting free speech to \"some obscure newsgroup that\nI don't read.\" What BS. You got a problem with what Jacobs says, what\nKnepper thinks, all you have to do is defeat it with better ideas, more\nand better speech. Yours is the easy way out.\n\nAs for Knepper: ever notice how sometimes these guys will say just about\nany darn thing that pops in their heads when a mike is shoved in front of\nthem? You know that often the best copy for the news is the one that isn't\npre-prepared. They know Knepper has controversial ideas about women, they\npop some question about Postema. (An interesting related question would \nbe whether the two ever appeared in the same game. Off the top of my head,\nI guess \"no.\" If my guess is right, Knepper popped off about something that\nhad nothing to do with him -- and Postema gets a book for it, and he doesn't.)\n\n\nNow, why didn't *I* think of that? :-) :-) :-)\n\nRG", "\n\nBut of course, it is expected that umpires will show up players.\n\nDon't get me wrong, I understand the nature of the game, but I just \nbelieve that a little ego-ectomy for the umpires would make the game \nmuch better.\n\nTed\n\n--\n\"Social nags and body bags, make you dead, what a drag drag drag.\"\n-- Saigon Kick, body bags, The Lizard ", "\nWell, I don't want shorter games *per se*, but I would like for them to stop\n*wasting* so much time during games. The Gant incident is a perfect example.\nWhen a guy comes to the plate, he should be up there to hit, not show off\n(or show up the umpire, which is clearly what Gant was doing). I feel like\nwriting a fan letter to Hirschbeck.\n\n Mike Jones | AIX High-End Development | mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com", "How many runs will be scored in Denver?\nI don't know.\n\nbut some idea can be gotten by looking at the runs scored in \nMile High Stadium during the last few years of the Bears/Zephyrs \ntenure in the American Association.\n\nHere's the total runs scored per game in Zephyrs games, \nall league games and the ratio. I found the same ratios for HR.\n\nYear rpg lea ratio hrpg lea ratio \n1992 10.22 9.10 1.12 1.65 1.58 1.04\n1991 9.53 8.87 1.07 1.41 1.26 1.12\n1990 10.71 8.72 1.23 1.49 1.24 1.20\n1989 9.07 8.34 1.09 1.27 1.11 1.14\n1988 9.90 8.37 1.18 1.29 1.08 1.19\n1987 12.55 10.70 1.17 2.39 1.92 1.24\n1986 9.45 9.33 1.01 1.35 1.38 .98\n1985 9.50 8.54 1.11 1.53 1.34 1.14\n1984 9.99 9.10 1.10 1.55 1.59 .97\n1983 10.60 9.99 1.06 2.03 1.74 1.17\n1982 11.29 10.35 1.09 2.24 1.91 1.17\n1981 10.29 9.25 1.11 1.43 1.49 .96\n1980 10.59 9.43 1.12 1.63 1.46 1.12\n 1446/13-->1.11 1444/13-->1.11\n\nIt seems pretty clear that Denver will have a large effect \non runs scored (I'll stick with my prediction from last year \nthat it'll be one of the top 3 in the NL this year) \nand a fairly large effect on Homeruns - though apparently not as large as \nAtlanta, Wrigley, Cincinnati and San Diego.\nStill it ought to be a pretty decent home run park.", "I have to agree wholeheartedly with this view. I don't like to see stickwork,\nbut you have to clear players away from in front. My personal favorite move\n(I'm a goalie too) is to give the offeding player a good whack on the back\nof their skates when the ref isn't looking. Makes 'em go down like a ton of\nbricks, but doesn't cause injuries unless they don't know how to fall (I'm \ntalking about hitting the blades here, not the foot). It also makes the \nplayer you hit and anyone who sees really mad and apt to take a stupid\nretaliation penalty. Unfortunately, it also leaves your blocker out of \nposition for a short time...I don't do this if a shot is likely on the short\nside. Hmm....maybe I should mail Potvin this method (in French and with\nhelpful diagrams, of course). It sure would be nice to see Ciccerelli (who\nI have a great deal of respect for, BTW, he's not a big guy, but he plays\nhuge!) fall on his back a few times! :-)", "Here's one from the mill. The Oilers MIGHT move to Hamilton\nwhere Porklington can get a free deal.\n\nGiven what Labour relations and Puck has been like, it WOULD be a sigh of relief.\n\nThis WAY w4e can can BOTH elements!!", "\nI have to disagree with you on this one. It is anything BUT common. In the\n4 or 5 years I have been watching hockey I have NEVER seen this happen EVER.\n\nI am not sure what league you have been watching. :-)\n\nAnyone else agree with this?", "(Detroit, April 19)\n\nIn a development that shocked most knowledgable observers, the Detroit Redwings\nscored no less than six goals against the best goaltender in the world en\nroute to a 6-3 win over the best team in the NHL, the Toronto Maple Leafs. \n\nThe Leafs could not be faulted, as they completely dominated the inferior\nDetroit squad and clearly deserved to win. Only the biased officiating of\nAndy Van Hellemond and the idiots that insisted upon throwing an octopus on\nthe ice at every stoppage in an obvious attempt to distract the superior \nvisiting side prevented an all-out massacre of the Wings by the league's best \nteam. \n\n \t\t\t\t\t\t\t Alan", "] \tAnyone who really believes that the Caps can beat\n\n\nLet's be honest. The Pens may not 'loose' one game as you\nput it, but they will definitely lose one game. Remember,\nthe regular season doesn't mean much when it comes to \nplayoff time. The Caps have a shot at least - the Flyers\nsure don't", "I hate to be the burden of bad news, but I think I will this time! =)\n\nThe Phillies usually play at either 7:05 P.M. or 7:35 P.M. Eastern Time for\nweekdays. On Sundays the time is usually 1:35 P.M. Eastern Time.\n\nBoise is in Idaho. Idaho is in part of the Mountain Time Zone and in part\nof the Pacific Time Zone. The times that were given were for Mountain Time\nZone starts.\n\nPlease check a map in case I am wrong. But I am certain that Boise is in the\nMountain Time Zone.\n\n\nThanks for listening!\n", "tes:\n\n Did anyone think that Texas would have the top two home run leaders at a \ngiven point in the season and neither one would be Jose Canseco?\n\n Steve\n[]", "\n\nI'd have to take Quebec in 6.\n\n\nHawks will win, but it will take 5.\n\nCal in 7.\n\nBoston will beat Quebec in 6.\n\n\nPitt in 6. The Bruins arent a pushover.\nThe hawks havent had problems with them all year. Yep, I agree.\n\nUnless the Hawks can somehow change fate, you're right. \n\nWho knows, though. Maybe some intensive forechecking aka normal Hawks\nstyle will nullify a seemingly unbeatable team. Maybe the Pens are due\nfor a let-down. Hell, how could they _possibly_ extend their record\nmaking play all the way through the playoffs.? \n\n", "\nThe rumour was basically everywhere in Toronto based on reports\nthat Keenan has told both San Jose and Philadelphia that he\nwas no longer interested in pursuing further negotiations with\neither team. \n\nThe Ranger announcement is supposed to happen tomorrow supposedly.\n\nThe Rangers have so many veterans that they had to get a coach\nwith \"weight\" and a proven record...and whom they know Messier respects.", "Hello\n\nas the subject tells all I am trying to find out what is the formula to\ncalculate the ERA for the pitchers.\n\nIf any of you baseball fans have it please e-mail me at\n\n\n\tnapoli@atc.olivetti.com\n\n\n\tthank you very much\n", "\n\n\nRight. So who cares which PLAYER gets credited, as long as the TEAM\ngets more runs? If a player helps the TEAM get more R and RBI, but \ndoesn't score them all himself, who cares?\n\nConsider:\n\nPlayer A: single.\nPlayer B: grounder to short; reaches on the force at 2nd.\nPlayer C: Double, B to 3rd.\nPlayer D: Sac fly.\n\nB gets a run, D gets an RBI. Are you *sure* they helped the team\nmore than A and C? Think hard, now.\n\n\nAs you wish.", "\n\nYup. Then again, there are lots of foreign-born players on the Canadian\nnational soccer team so the Brits give something back to you in the end:-)\n---\nFor the record, former NY Rangers coach Ted \"Darth\" Sator recently led\nLion Milan (Jari Kurri's former team, only the nickname's changed\n[Devils->Lion]) to their second straight Italian championship. They made the\nEuropean Final Four last autumn after losing to Swedish champs Malmo in the\nsemis...and accomplished this feat using FIFTEEN Canadian-born players!! Mamma\nmia!\n\nMARCU$", "How can anyone pick the worst Yankee pitcher. In the past 12\nyears there have been so many.\n\nDoes the name Steve \"You mean I should try and throw the ball\nto the catcher\" Trout?", "\n ^^^^^^^^ \n\nIn four of the five games Finns have played, the goalie has been chosen\nthe best player of the opposing team. (In the fifth, the finnish goalie, \nKetterer was elected the best Finn) Has this to do with the goalies \nhaving good days in these games, or are the finnish players just lousy\nscorers???\n\nAnyway, quite few goals have been scored in these games in generally\n(the exception of course being Canada vs. Italy). It looks like the\ngoalies are getting too good. Is this due to their equipment getting\nbigger, so they cover more (their gloves, e.g. seem to be much bigger\nnow than they were some years ago).\n\nAnybody know if the rules on goalie equipment has changed this way????\n\n\nMikko Wihervaara \n ", " \nIn the game *I* have seen yesterday in the Olympiahalle of Munich\nCanada won 4-1 against Sweden! The last goal for Canada was at 19:59 in\nthe 3rd period. Maybe you shouldn't go and get you another beer \nbefore the game is over and then post imaginary results...\n\nHolger\n", "4/23/93 BLUES SHUTOUT HAWKS AGAIN, LEAD SERIES 3-0\n-----------------------------------------------------\nIt was a great atmosphere last night at the St. Louis Arena as Joseph and\nthe Blues shutout the Hawks for the second consecutive game. People were\ncheering the Blues long before face-off time, and they kept going for the\nentire game. My friends and I went out celebrating until the early morning\nhours with some of the players. Here's a game summary from the St. Louis\nPost-Disptach. Enjoy...\n\nBy Dave Luecking\nOf The Post-Dispatch Staff:\n\nAt 10:24 p.m. Friday night, The Arena crowd of 17,965 paid homage to Blues\ngoalie Curtis Joseph. The fans began bowing, their arms extended, taking the\nthe lead from a fan who held a sign that read ``Only God Saves More Than\nJoseph.\" It was a fitting tribute to Joseph, who has brought the Blues to\nthe verge of a surprising sweep.\n\nJoseph recorded his second successive shutout Friday, blanking the Blackhawks\n3-0 in Game 3 of the Norris Division semifinals and giving the Blues a 3-0\nlead in the best-of-seven series.\n\nThe Blackhawks haven't scored against Joseph since the 8:51 mark of the second\nperiod of Game 1. Joseph has shut out the Blackhawks for 151 minutes 9 seconds,\na Blues record. Jacques Plante held the previous record of 146:28, set in the\nfirst round of the 1969 playoffs against the Philadelphia Flyers, one of only\ntwo series the Blues have sweeped in their history.\n\nThe Blues can wrap up their first sweep since 1969 with a victory in Game 4,\na nationally televised game that begins at noon Sunday. The Blues have had\nonly two sweeps in franchise history, both in 1969, when they swept\nPhiladelphia and Los Angeles en route to the Stanley Cup finals.\n\nThe shutout Friday was easier than on Wednesday in Game 2 when Joseph had to\nmake 47 saves. This time, the Blues held the shots down to 34, and the\nBlackhawks couldn't touch Joseph.\n\nWell, they touched Joseph, numerous times, shoving him and pushing him at \nevery opportunity to try to get him off his game. But Joseph and the Blues\nwere unfazed, dishing out their own punishment along the way.\n\nThe Blues' grinders -- Bob Bassen, Rich Sutter, Kevin Miller and Dave Lowry --\nwore down the Blackhawks, taking the visitors from Chicago off their game.\nThe grinders set the stage for the glamour boys, the gifted playmakers and\nscorers, who made the most of their opportunities.\n\nCraig Janney, Brett Hull and Nelson Emerson scored, getting one goal in each\nperiod. Hull assisted on Janney's first-period power play goal after two unwise\nChicago penalties. Checker Miller set up Hull's goal in the second period, and\nrookie Denny Felsner assisted for Emerson, who scored at 16:44 of the final \nperiod.\n\nBlues fans jumped to their feet in celebration of that goal and began yelling\n``Sweep. Sweep. Sweep.\" They also taunted Chicago goalie Ed Belfour \n``Bell-Four. Bell-Four.\" They also chanted ``Na, na-na-na, hey-hey good bye.\"\n\nSuch talk is a tad premature. There's still one game left, but the Blues are\non a roll. They have the Blackhawks on their heels.\n\nThe Blues set the tone early on Friday with two crunching hits in the first\nminute of play. Rich Sutter leveled Bryan Marchment, and Brendan Shanahan\ndumped Steve Smith at center ice.\n\nChicago tried to retaliate, but Troy Murray's decision to run into Joseph\nbackfired. Referee Dan Marouelli gave him a roughing penalty.\n\nThe Blues didn't get a shot on goal on the power play, and they survived a\nscare after Chicago killed the penalty when Rick Zombo gave the puck away to\nSteve Larmer. Joseph stopped Larmer's shot and everything else Chicago threw\nat him in the first period. The 'Hawks ignored the scouting report on Joseph\nabout shooting high and continued to shoot low, where Joseph's butterfly\nstyle is deadly.\n\nRookie Bret Hedican picked up three consecutive penalties midway through the\nperiod -- two for hooking and one for holding -- but Chicago got only two\nshots on goal, as many as Miller. The Blues' penalty killer twice stole the\npuck and just missed on good scoring chances against Belfour.\n \nMarouelli began calling penalties on the Blackhawks to even things up.\nHe caught Brent Sutter hooking Shanahan four seconds after Hedican's third\npenalty. He called Marchment for elbowing Janney along the boards at 14:58,\nand gave the Blues a two-man advantage 1:07 later when Christian Ruuttu\nslashed Shanahan.\n\nThe Blues worked around the puck on the ensuing power play, and Hull got it\nwhere he likes it -- in the high slot. Hull's shot hit Belfour's right\nshoulder, and the puck bounced precariously close to the goal line. Belfour\ndived back to cover, but the puck squirted loose to Janney, who poked it into\nthe net at 16:53 for his first goal of the playoffs.\n\nThe Blues continued their relentless hitting as the period ended, and the\nBlackhawks lost their composure. Joe Murphy tripped Ron Wilson with two seconds\nremaining in the period, and after time had expired Smith upset the Blues by\nshooting the puck into the Blues' bench.\n\nChris Chelios made a move toward Joseph as the teams left the ice, and\nMarouelli slapped him with a 10-minute misconduct. Chicago survived the Blues'\npower play, but the loss of Chelios hurt. He didn't return until the midway\npoint of the period, and within three minutes of his return, Hull had increased\nthe Blues' lead to 2-0, deflecting in Miller's crisp pass.\n\nTry as they might, the Blackhawks couldn't get to Joseph, who stopped\neverything they could throw at him. He stopped 12 shots in the second period\nand 13 more in the third. Chicago also hit the goalpost twice.\n\nEmerson's goal put the game away. He went hard to the net and redirected\nFelsner's pass.", "\nI was at that game, behind home plate next to a scout who was manning the \nradar gun. The 1991 season was winding down and Roger didn't have his \nbest fastball, topping out at 88-90 (in contrast to Frank Tanana, who went \nas low as 50 with one lollipop in the process of striking out Phil \nPlantier *five* times on the night). Inky's shot would have gone further\nthan any I've ever seen if it hadn't crashed *into* the lights (not the \nlightstand) as you say over 100 feet high, Roy Hobbs-like, and bounced \nback onto the field. That had to have been a 525-footer if unobstructed,\nedging out Bo Jackson's drive off Oil Can Boyd to the top of the\ncenterfield bleacher back wall in 1988 for the best I've seen personally \n(I was sitting under that one). \n\n---\nGlenn Waugaman\nDigital Equipment Corporation\nLittleton, MA\ng_waugaman@nac.enet.dec.com", " \nOrganization: Eskimo North (206) 367-3837 {eskimo.com}\n\n\nYeah, Morris just knows how to win. That's why he lost 18 for Detroit in\n1990. Funny how he wins a lot of games when he pitches on good teams but\nloses a lot when he pitches on bad ones. And if \"rings\" was the only\ncriteria for success, then teams would always tend to repeat, and\neventually you'd have the same team win the WS every bleepin' year. Sort\nof like the yanks in the 50s.\n\nMorris is a decent pitcher on the downside of a good, not great, career.\nToronto will finish 3rd or 4th this year, with Morris and all those\nrings, because their pitching staff was destroyed over the off-season.", "A little delayed, but in the interests of fairness (stats from Elias);\n BA OBP SLG R HR RBI RNI % outs\nAlomar .310 .405 .427 105 8 76 264 20.5 419\nBaerga .312 .354 .455 92 20 105 316 21.2 480\n\nSo we see that Baerga has a large advantage in RBI (runs batted in), RNI \n(runners not driven in) and outs. ", "\nits\nplate.\nmay\n\nWell, there's a big difference between \"just not swinging the bat well\" and\nwhat the Reds are doing at the plate....UUUGGGHHHH!!!!!\n\n A Reds fan on the verge of a nervous breakdown....\n\n --Mike\n\n \"Why is it that the prognosis on Kevin Mitchell is 'Out 2-3 days' no matter\n what day you read it???\"\n -Gary Burbank\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n I've told you before and I'll tell you again. The strong\n survive and the weak disappear. We do not intend\n to disappear.\n\n ---Jimmy Hoffa\n\n mtissand@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n", "\n\n\n\n\nSheesh. The rumor mill strikes again. But let's just assume this were true.\nMy question is this:\n\nWhat would Montreal give San Jose if the Sharks got first pick and took Daigle?\n", "\nOwen only has one error so far, I believe. That seriously\nunderrepresents the harm he has done in the field.\n\nOwen will cleanly play any ball he reaches. He will have a fine\nfielding percentage, like always. The problem is that he doesn't\nreach anything that isn't hit straight at him!\n\nThis wouldn't be quite as obvious a problem if he were playing next to\nKelly Gruber or Robin Ventura. But the third baseman for the Yankees\nis Wade Boggs (who should have moved across the diamond *last* year)!\n\nI've only seen one game, Abbott's first start, but there were three\nballs hit to the left side which would have been stopped by quality\ndefensive players. Instead they were charged as hits against Abbott.", "wasn't\n\nHe is in Japan playing baseball.", "\nHrm. Sandy Alomar, 24 year old rookie: 132 games, .290/.326/.418. Threw\nout a few baserunners. Benito Santiago, 22 year old rookie: 146 games,\n.300/.324/.467. He threw out a few baserunners, too. Ivan Rodriguez,\n*20* year old rookies: 88 games, .264/.276/.354. Didn't exactly suck\nbehind the plate.\n\n\nTrue. Which only makes it more important to realize when you have one of the\nfew. Lopez' season last year, adjusted to major league equivalencies, was\n.306/.330/.472, 15 HRs. How bad does he have to be behind the plate for that\nto not be better than Olson's .238/.316/.328?\n\n Mike Jones | AIX High-End Development | mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com", "\nC'mon, Tommy Soderstrom is having a fine rookie (I think he's a rookie)\nseason with the Flyers. I'm sure most of you knew that already, but just\nin case. ", "I've been a Giants season ticket holder for years and never really complained\nabout the old ballyard place. Sure, it's been cold, the food lines were long,\nand the hired hands were surly, but this was all part of the Giants mystique.\nOr so I thought.\n\nI went to Tuesday's game (3 - 1 Giants over the Marlins) and the 'Stick was \na much different place. Nothing short of a dome will eliminate the wind, but \neverything is a lot better. The lines are a lot shorter, the bathrooms are\nCLEAN and have running water, and the hired hands were very polite. \n\nThe new foghorn (lights up and blows after each homerun) and the wooden fence\nare very nice, as are the new bleachers. The bleachers start right at the top\nof the fence and give a great view, and they've got beer stands at the\nbottome of the bleachers. The only complaint is that the electronic \nold-fashioned scoreboard looks electronic - could be better.\n\nThese things should have been done a long time ago, but it took a real \nbusinessman (ex - Safeway President Peter Magowan) to figure it out. Just \nlike he used to tell his checkers, \"If the customers don't come back, I don't\nneed as many checkers\". This isn't a knock on Bob Lurie - he was a competent\nbusinessman but he didn't deal much with the general public.\n\nI'll give an example of how the level of service has changed. The onion \ndispenser jammed as I was using it. An attendant came over, apoligized for\nthe problem and proceeded to fix the machine. After he was done, he cleaned\nthe machine and said he was glad to be able to help. In the old days, there\nwas no attendant and the folks at the concession stands would say \"Go to\nthe stand 100 feet away - they might be able to help\".\n\nAll in all, it was a fun day\n\n", "Buffalo fans:\n\nSome people in the discussion group, as well as \"commentator Al\" on ESPN, \nbelieve that game 3 is critical for the Sabres. HELLOOOO!!!!! The Sabres \nare AHEAD 2 games to 0, not behind. As a life-long Sabres fan, I am well \naware of their ability to choke, but let's not exaggerate that. As long as \nthe Sabres win one of the next 2 games (be it game 3 OR game 4), they are \nstill in good shape (ahead 3 games to 1), with game 6 to be played at \nBuffalo. If they lose games three AND four, then start worrying. Game 3 is \ncritical for Boston, not Buffalo.\n\n", " \n\n \n \n \nMY HOCKEY EDUCATION? What the f--- are you talking about? I'm\nnot even going to try to refute this absolutely insane statement. \n \n \n \n\"I hate the Habs\" ?...you sound like a 10-year old. This\nstatement is just further exemplifies your total inability to\nargue objectively about hockey. Don't give me this crap about\n\"cogent arguments\"...I've yet to read something of yours that is\ncogent. You consistently argue with: (1) emotion; (2) huge,\nsweeping statements\n \nFrankly, you have a very unconvincing style.\n \nI'm not defending Bob Gainey...frankly, I don't care for him all\nthat much. But your dismissal of him as something less than an\neffective hockey player is tiresome...it has no basis in\nanything. How many Calders did he win? I think it was four (go\nahead and refresh my memory). What about the Conn Smythe? Was\nthat a fluke? Yeah, not the makings of a hockey superstar, I\nknow, but try to have a reason, any reason, to shoot him down.\n \n \n \n \nHey cowboy! You're the \"expert\" who introduced the idiotic\ncomparison of Gainey with Gretzky and Lemieux...you figure it\nout.\n \n \n \nHow many individual awards between them? Eight...I don't remember\n(once again, please feel free to refresh my memory...and try to\nbe as sarcastic as possible about my \"hockey education\").\n \n \n \nOH MY GOD!!! Did I say that? Roger...what's your point? Fuhr\nis a goaltender, goaltender's don't \"plug\"...in his prime, he was\none of the best. Sanderson was a scrapper...if you stick him on\nyou may as well include half the Flyers team of the same era.\n \n \n \nOh Roger, you shouldn't...really. I don't deserve this...you are\nfar too accomodating already.\n \n \n \nYou seem to have allowed all of these other players fall into\nyour sweeping, vacuous statement...that's why. If you want to\ndebate Gainey, go ahead...but why bring up everybody else? How\ndoes it support your argument? Do you have an argument, or do\nyou just like to throw around a few names hoping to impress us?\n \n \n \nGreat. I couldn't agree more. The Flyers won two cups for the\nsame reasons...deservedly so. So what? I don't get it. Are you\nangry that the Leafs didn't get more recognition? \n \nYou seem to think these pluggers are \"hyped\"...I don't\nagree...plain and simple. If you're last statement is some sort\nof compromise, fair enough.\n \n \n \nNot a pleasant bone in your body, eh Rog? Why are you so\nunhappy? Not getting invited to enough parties? What?\n \n \nRoger, why are you under the impression that responding to your\nposts is some great honour? You really should stop...it sounds\na little bit pathetic. Frankly, it's about as honourable as a\ngood fart.\n \ncongenially, as always, \n \njd\n \n-- \nJames David \nj3david@student.business.uwo.ca/s", "Does anyone have the scoop on Scot Erickson? How long is he going to be\nout for?\n\n", "\n But good ones can collapse somewhat, then come back the next year.\nBurleigh Grimes went from 20+ wins and an ERA of 3 or so in '24 to 13-19 and\nan ERA around 4 in '25. He pitched well for several more years. Carlton\nwon 13 and lost 20 the year after his 27-10 record. (Source: Bill James\nHistorical Baseball Abstract.)\n And let's not forget John Tudor, who started 1-5 and finished 21-6 in\n1985. He had a pretty bad ERA when you take Busch Stadium into account at\nthe start of the season.\n\n\n If I recall, he had a 4.50 ERA in the 1st half and a 3.50 ERA in the\n2nd half of last year. \n Hmmm, 21 runs in 11 innings. Suppose he starts 30 more games, and winds\nup w/200 innings pitched. If he allows 4 runs a game in the next 189\ninnings, he'll have a 4.75 ERA or so at the end of the year. (I think I have\nhis totals right.) This is going to be hard to come back from.\n\n\n My 1st hunch is that Morris is very gutsy, and that he may be pitching\nthrough an injury and not telling anyone. My 2nd guess is that he will be\nbanished to the bullpen the remainder of the season after a few more starts.\n(Perhaps when Stewart comes off the DL? Or will Danny Cox, who went 3 or 4\nscoreless innings against the Tribe today, start for Morris? He looks like\na really good one. Gaston is scrambling to find starters, I'd imagine.\nLuckily, the Jays have a very good offense.)\n I don't think they would dare release him before the end of the year.\nHe'll just be replaced by Stewart or Cox.", "\nI think the three-headed GM's guiding principle was to keep veterans\nin favor of youngsters only if they offered a \"significant\" advantage.\nAt the end of last season, the contracts of several veterans with somewhat\nmaginal contributions (Fenton, Bozek, Anderson, and a couple others I\ncan't remember) were bought out. The idea was that youngsters could\nplay almost as well, and had the potential to improve where these\nolder guys did not. \nAnd they traded Mullen, because he wanted to go, not because he\nwasn't good enough, but I think they were a bit too optimistic\nin thinking they could make up for his contributions.\nAn example from this season, Skriko was brought in on a trial basis\nbut not kept, because of his age. I thought he was a decent\ncontributor worth keeping around.\n\nThe youth movement has its advantages; look at Gaudreau who\nmight still be in KC if more veterans had been kept around. But\nyou have to find the right balance.", "I live in the desolate MidWest (as far as hockey is concerned) and our \"sports\"\nstores around here carry VERY LITTLE hockey stuff, except for San Jose, Tampa\nBay, L.A., Pittsburgh, and if you're lucky Chicago.\n\nI would like to know if anyone knows of any m,ail order, phone order stores that\nI might be able to get in contact with. I am dying for some real hockey stuff\n(hats, shirts, key chains, etc.) for some other teams (Edmonton, Montreal, etc.)\nso if you have any information, PLEASE e-mail me DIRECTLY. Most appreciated!\n\nGood luck to your teams in the Stanley Cup playoffs!\n\nGO EDMONTON (likely...NOT!!) Maybe next year...\n-- \n\t\"If you assult someone you get 5 years--In hockey, 5 minutes.\n\t\t\tIs this a great sport or what?!\"", "\n\tNo way -- gotta be Walter Johnson. All were with Washington.\nCarlton spent too long in St. Louis to collect less than 700 there.\n\n\n\tI'd also guess Hough due to his length of tenure though I suspect \nBobby Witt wasn't far behind. Maybe even Jenkins snuck in close....\n\n\n\tFingers had to have achieved 100 with either MIL or with SD so, yes,\nI'd go with that guess. Otherwise I was thinking that Reardon has a better\nchance of having 100 with MIN along with (I would think) easily reaching 100 \nwith MON.\n\n\n\tGotta be Willie Mays...I am fairly sure he had over 300 steals in his\ncareer.\n\n\n\tHmmm...Leary is a really good point. I'd forgotten about him. Well,\nif nothing else, there are plenty of ex-Met pitchers in the category of\n\"could have lost to all teams\" -- Koosman, Leary, Torrez, Ryan, Seaver....\nI guess the best three guesses would be Leary, Ryan, and either Seaver or\nKoosman.\n\n", "\n\n\n\n I didn't say that. Did you say that? Wow, I can't believe that\nanyone would think that the Braves (or any other team, for that matter)\nshould get the title for free. What a dolt that person would be, if\nthat was what they thought. Incredible.\n\n\n\n\n--\n", "The Angels won their home opener against the Brewers today before 33,000+ \nat Anaheim Stadium, 3-1 on a 3-hitter by Mark Langston. J.T. Snow and \nGary Discarcina hit home runs for the Angels.", "\nGerry Cheevers used to have a mask that had stitches painted all over\nit.", "\n\n\nIt seemed pretty conclusive to me. The puck clearly hit the crossbar\nand then came down on the line. And the announcers, admittedly homers,\nkept harping about how they \"must have had a different view upstairs\"\nbecause it was obvious to them, and, I would have thought, to anyone who\nsaw the replay, that the puck didn't go in. The referee originally \nsignalled no goal but the video replay \"judges\" initiated contact with\nthe referee to claim that a goal was in fact scored. This, to me, is\nunheard of. Seeing stuff like this happen gives me a bad feeling about\nthe Leaf chances this year.\n\ncordially, as always,\n\nrm\n", "Philadelphia at Chicago: Teams tied for 1st after Sunday\n Dick Redding battled Chet Brewer in the first game of a dramatic four\ngame series. One Friday, one Saturday, and a good-old Sunday doubleheader.\n\"What could be better,\" declared Ernie Banks. Perhaps the fact that the Cubs\nare challenging?\n \"It's pitching, it's always been pitching that we've lacked,\" announced\nRyne Sandberg. \"If we can get by Brewer, then beat Carlton, Alexander, or\nBunning - preferrably 2 of the last three - we'll know we might be able to\nwin.\n \"Lord, I hope we pull it off.\"\n The Phils scored once in the top of the first; Richie Ashburn singled, Pete\nRose followed with a hit, sending Ashburn around second. Kiki Cuyler cut\nthe ball off in left center, and threw a bullet in to Ernie Banks, who threw\nto Ron Santo to get Ashburn at third. Rose went to second on the play.\n Christobel Torrienti lifted a long fly to center, moving Pete Rose to\nthird. Schmidt was walked - the Cubs were absolutely refusing to let him\nbeat them. Both Torrienti and Schmidt will likely draw 130-150 walks this\nyear. Chuck Klein is starting to hit very well, and he lashed a double into a\ngap in right-center. \"Cool Papa\" Bell's speed allowed him to cut the ball off\nand prevent Schmidt from scoring. Nellie Fox was walked, and Bob Boone\ngrounded out to second, ending the threat. \n \"Teams are starting to realize that you don't have to pitch to Schmidt or\nTorrienti, and that is lowering their run total. It puts a lot of pressure on\nKlein and Dick Allen (who platoons with Chuck Klein and occasionally spells\nRose at first), and it's a credit to the Phillies that they've been able to\nsustain their pace. The picthers have slumped at times.\" So came the\nanalysis from Frank Chance.\n The Cubs got that run back when Bell bunted for a hit, Thomas' grounder\nmoved him to second, and - after Sandberg made out - Billy Williams singled\nhome a run. In the sixth, Ron Santo launched a two-run homer to make it\n3-1. Dick Redding got in trouble in the eighth, as Schmidt singled and Klein\nsingled him to third. Ed Reulbach entered to face Fox, but Dick Allen popped\nout of the dugout to hit. Allen doubled to right, but luckily for the Cubs,\nWilliams had moved to left and Andre Dawson had been inserted for defense.\nHe fired a bullet to home plate to keep Klein at third. Lance Parrish, hitting\nfor Boone, was walked, and Bruce Sutter entered. Larry Bowa grounded into\na 1-2-3 double play, but Ed Delahanty walked as a pinch-hitter. Desiring a\nstrikeout, since Ashburn was likely to attempt a bunt hit with the quick\nTrillo pinch-running at third, Chance brought in Lee Smith, who induced a\npop-up to the catcher from the speedy centerfielder, ending the inning. The\nCubs took the win, 3-2, moving a game behind the Phillies.\n Steve Carlton was called upon to battle 3-Finger Brown Saturday. To get\nanother righthander in the lineup, Ron Santo moved to first and Bill Madlock\nplayed third. Unfortunately, Brown allowed six doubles, and the Cub bullpen\nwas worn down even more, as the Cubs tried to maintain a lead against\nLefty. Madlock, batting sixth, had knocked two doubles of his own, driving\nhome four runs. Gabby Hartnett hit two home runs, and Cuyler added\nanother, and the score was 8-6, Cubs after six innings. The Phillie bullpen\nhad more troubles in the bottom of the eighth, as the Cubs grabbed 3 more\nruns to ice an 11-7 triumph.\n Sunday's twin bill saw Cool Papa Bell gather seven straight hits at one\npoint, including a rare outside-the-park home run in the second game, off\nRobin Roberts. Grover Alexander of the Phils took the first contest, 4-2, but\nthe Cubs captured the second one 5-4, with Waddell gaining the win. Bruce\nSutter tossed two innings for the save, though he allowed one run in the\neighth. The Cardinals stood half a game behind these co-leaders, and would\nconclude their series with the Expos on Monday.\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n Montreal at St. Louis(August 3-6): 3-way tie for 1st\n Dennis Martinez is on a roll, and he continued it versus John Tudor Friday.\nThe Expos have a wide variety of hitters, and - while they aren't among the\nall-time greats, they are getting the job done. After winning their first\nfirst two games, they suddenly found themselves only 2 1/2 games out of\nfirst in this wacky season.\n Martinez triumphed 5-3 on Friday, and WIlliams outdueled Dizzy Dean 3-2\nSaturday. However, the Cardinals refused to give up, winning 6-2 on Sunday.\nThe Cards captured Monday's game, too, as Steve Carlton outdueled Steve\nRogers 3-2. \"We're really good against ground ball pitchers because of our\nteam speed,\" remarked Lou Brock. \"I don't see why we can't win this\ndivision.\"\n The Phillies and Cubs may have some reasons for them. Two-thirds of\nthe way through the season, there is a 3-way tie for first.\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n New York at Pittsburgh(August 3-6): 3 straight 3-2 wins for Bucs,\nnow 2 back - but in 4th!\n \"When your team is in a slump like we are, the worst thing is to play in a\npitcher's park like this,\" spoke Gil Hodges before the series. Keith\nHernandez added that \"their defense takes away quite a few runs per year,\nand it must be giving them an extra 6-7 wins.\" The Pirates have made only\n26 errors all season, 6 ahead of the second place Dodgers. Error totals tend\nto be around 50 for the best defensive All-Time teams.\n Rube Foster defeated Sid Fernandez 5-2 Friday, and Candelaria outshone\nSeaver 3-2 Saturday, in a game featuring some outstanding defense. When\nNolan Ryan and two relivers 6-hit the Mets in another 3-2 win Sunday, the\nPirates could once again look forward to a victory getting them back to the\n.500 mark. They had been unable to several times in the past month. Bert\nBlyleven met Dwight Gooden in the afternoon game. Both pitchers possessed\nfantastic stuff, and the only runs scored through eight innings were on home\nruns - a solo shot by Rusty Staub of the Mets and a two-run blast by Ralph\nKiner for the Pirates. The Mets' Darryl Strawberry singled home a run in the\ntop of the ninth off Jesse Orosco, working his second inning, after Mookie\nWilson pinch-ran for Gary Carter at second. With one out and a runner on\nfirst, Lee Mazilli was sent in to pinch-hit. The Pirates countered with Kent\nTekulve, placing him in the fifth spot in the order and putting Barry Bonds in\nleft field as the ninth place hitter. Tekulve induced a groundout forcing\nStrawberry at second. He slid hard into Honus Wagner, preventing the\nPirates from turning their fifth double play of the afternoon. Tekulve\nallowed a hit, but Clemente threw Mazilli out at third from near the right\nfield line, ending the inning. Tug McGraw relieved Randy Myers, who entered\nto pitch the eighth, and got one out before Bonds launched a rocket to deep\ncenter, running through the stop sign at third to score an inside-the-park\nhomer to win. The Pirates had scored an improbable 3 straight 3-2 wins,\nand had moved to within 2 games of first place, with seven weeks to go.\n------------------------------------------------------------------\n San Francisco at Boswaukta(August 3-5): \n Another Sunday doubleheader appeared on the schedule, as the Giants\nmanaged to close the gap on the other teams thanks to some starting\npitching that just wouldn't tire. In fact, reported manager John McGraw,\n\"once this rough part of the schedule is over, maybe as early as this coming\nweek, we may shift to a 4-man rotation again for a little while.\"\n Juan Marichal continued his hot pitching Friday, beating Lew Burdette and\nthe Braves 4-1. Willie Mays had all four r.b.i.s on 3 hits. Rick Reuschel\nfaced Joe Niekro Saturday in a slugfest. The Braves' park had been a homer\nhaven, but this took the cake, as the Giants won a seesaw affair 16-13.\nWillie Mays had three homers, Willie McCovey, Eddie Matthews, and Don\nBaylor had two, and Hank Aaron, Ernie Lombardi, Biz Mackey, and Mel Ott had\none each. The Braves had collected 149 home runs going into Sunday's\ndoubleheader, putting them on a pace for 223, which would be 4 short of the\nNational League record. They were still a tad behind the '61 Yankees' pace.\nThey had allowed over 120, though. Vida Blue actually got the win after\nretiring 2 batters in the fifth. He allowed only a run in the sixth, but\nfaltered in the seventh. Joe McGinnity earned the save.\n In the doubleheader, the Braves' Hoyt Wilhelm failed to hold a lead in the\nfirst game, but Hank Aaron homered off Bill Foster in the eighth as the\nBraves won, 4-3. The Giants took the second game, however, by a 6-2 score.\nThe homer by Aaron was a magical #150 by the Braves; however, they fell to\nthree game below .500, making a comeback extremely unlikely.\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n San Diego at Cincinnati(Aug. 3-5): Randy Jones faced Ewell\nBlackwell in the first of this 3-game series, and the Padres felt rather\ngood. With Don Mattingly straining his back in the last Cleveland game, the\ntrade looked even better. McGriff's batting average was even rising. Of\ncourse, the bench was very poor, and Joe Gordon was only adequate in the\noutfield, but these were minor problems, since the pitching was holding up.\n Jones pitched a good game Friday, and won 6-3. McGriff launched two\nhome runs. Mel Harder earned a win with the help of Mark Davis and Ray\nNarleski Saturday; 5-4 was the final score. Tom Candiotti battled Satchel\nPaige to a 3-3 tie through eight innings before departing. The game was\nscoreless for 4 more innings until the thirteenth. Paige had departed after\n10, and John Franco hurled a scoreless inning. Tom Browning was working\nhis second scoreless inning, when Dave Winfield doubled with one out and\nJoe Gordon was pitched around. Thurm Munson doubled both runners home,\nand the Padres gamed a 5-3 win. The three-game sweep had pulled the\nGiants into a tie with the Reds. Though the Reds denied it, the highly\nemotional series with the Dodgers may have taken too much out of them.\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n Brookangeles at Houston(August 3-5):\n Another series capped off by a weekend doubleheader took place in the\nwide open plains of the Astrodome. The Astros sent Joe Niekro to the hill in\nthe first game, opposite Don Drysdale. \"Normally,\" Drysdale remarked, \"I\nwould be challenging hitter by being ready to throw at them. I can't afford\nto with this team, though; we have to get our own runners going; we can't\nDavis will get decked once.\"\n The fact that Glenn Davis leads the team in homers with six (!) is\nprimarily why he would be decked, but it should be understood that his\ncurrent pace would give him nine for the season. The hitting on this team is\na little better, but the power is all doubles and triples. Still, Carl Furillo is\nthe main reason no Astro home runs were hit over the weekend, as he threw\ntwo runners out trying for inside-the-park homers. For those unaware of\nthe nastness of the Astros' park, they have a 23-foot high gray wall all\naround the outfield; balls must be hit into the seats to be home runs. The\nfoul poles are 355 feet from home plate, but the alleys are 400 feet away,\nwith center field at 420 feet. \"It's as if some three-year-old threw a\ntantrum and told his playmates: 'If I can't hit home runs, nobody will hit\nhome runs',\" remarked Roy Campanella.\n The Dodgers stole five bases Friday, but the Astros decided to revitalize\nthe Baltimore chopping that had failed 6 weeks before; for tonight, anyway,\nDavis, Jim Wynn, and Jose Cruz did not have to mess with their swings,\naccording to the manager. After Poles and Willie Wells reached base via the\nBaltimore chop, Drysdale decked Jose Cruz with a pitch. He responded with\na two-run double, but Wynn - playing first for Davis - popped up, and the\nAstros didn't score any more in that inning. They did score 3 in the fourth to\nerase a 3-2 deficit, and the Astros wound up winning 6-4. They threatened\nto do even better the next game, as Tommy John would be their opponent.\nWalt Alston met privately with the starters at 6 A.M. before the game.\n \"I think I know how we can beat the Baltimore Chop,\" he explained.\n \"How can we do that,\" Pee Wee Reese wondered.\n \"They're going to be beating the ball down, so we've got to be ready to\nthrow on the run. Steve will start at first to dig balls out of the dirt, but I\nwant all of you to practice your barehanded picks and throws. We'll go with\na shallow infield almost the whole time.\"\n The plan almost worked. Mike Scott allowed only two runs through eight\ninnings, but the Astros got three; two of them scored when Bill Doran\npushed a bunt into the outfield in the fourth with runners on second and\nthird. 3-2 Astros was the final, with Dave Smith earning another save. The\nDodgers scored a victory in the first game of the twin bill Sunday, as Nolan\nRyan walked five, three of whom scored in a 4-1 Dodger win. Fernando\nValenzuela lost the second game 4-2 to Don Sutton, however, as the Dodgers'\nthirteen stolen bases in the series proved to not be enough.\n \"We're mostly a power team,\" remarked Ron Cey. \"Jackie and, when he\nplays, Maury Wills are our only real speed demons, though a couple other\nplays can do it now and then. We're sunk in a place like the Astrodome. I\nguess that's why they're so successful there.\" Indeed, it seems that\nbasestealing teams give them the most trouble in the dome. The 'Stros\nswiped 12 bases in 16 attempts, giving them 230 on the season.\n Standings after these weekend series:\nA.L.East\nTeam W L GB\nNew York 68 42 --\nCleveland 65 46 3.5\nDetroit 64 46 4\nBoston 64 47 4.5\nBaltimore 59 52 9.5\nToronto 43 69 25.5\nWashington 39 73 28\n\nA.L.West\nOaksaselphia 63 48 --\nMinnesota 61 48 1\nChicago 59 53 4.5\nKansas City 57 54 6.5\nCalifornia 57 56 8\nMilwaukee 45 66 17\nSeattle 32 78 31.5\n\nN.L.East\nChicago 57 53 --\nPhiladelphia 58 54 --\nSt. Louis 58 54 --\nPittsburgh 56 56 2\nMontreal 53 56 3.5\nNew York 48 64 10\n\nN.L.West\nBrookangeles 66 46 --\nCincinnati 66 47 0.5\nSan Francisco 65 46 0.5\nBoswaukta 54 56 11\nHouston 50 61 17.5\nSan Diego 36 75 29.5", "[...]\n\nYou could be right. Then again, you could be wrong. This claim is completely\nunverifiable and untestable. I'd wager most of the Braves fans on the net\ncould name more than 3 players from their 1988 season.\n\nYou could give away tickets to Braves games. However, my Dad and I were able\nto get great seats from scalper for face value, which isn't exactly the sign\nof a hot ticket...\n\n\nThis is *precisely* why they were considered America's team. Even\n(especially?) when they were bad, you could see most of the Braves games on\ncable. You could do that for the Cubs as well, but the Braves had better\ncamerawork, better announcers (what would you rather listen to -- Harry discuss\nthe game, or Skip and Pete discuss motoball?), and teams that weren't *too*\nmuch worse. Because of TBS, the Braves had a lot of fans outside of Georgia.\nAt home in Kentucky, even though we were much closer to Cincinnati there was\nas many Braves fans as Reds fans, even in 1990. You could actually watch the\nBraves play -- you had to go to Cincinnati to watch the Reds. I can go\nanywhere in America and watch the Braves.\n \n\nWhy? I'd guess that Braves fans are more widely distributed than Toronto\nfans.\n-- \nDale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Baseball fanatic", "I need a little help from a Texas Rangers expert.\n\nI was at Yankee Stadium Sunday (12-2 Texas rout) with my kids. We\nwandered out to the outfield during Rangers batting practice and\nI caught a ball tossed into the stands (actually wrestled some guy\na bit, I might add) by #62 on the Rangers. Who is he? Looked like\na bullpen assistant type, youngish I think. He was not in the\nroster listed in the Yankee scorecard. Any ideas?\n\nPlease e-mail as I haven't been reading r.s.b regularly.\n\nThanks.\n- Bob", " B.S. about darkness deleted.\n\tnope The Royals are the only team in the majors that have not\n finished in last place. ^^^^ Of course this doesn't include \n the marlins and the rockies but they have a good chance at \n finishing last also.\n\n\n", "To all the Braves doubters:\n\nDon't worry. The bats will come alive, and the Braves will come around.\nThe pitching is solid, and as long the Braves don't have serious injuries\nto the starting rotation, they'll continue to pitch well. Heck, with\nthe five starters on the Braves rotation, they could even sustain an\ninjury to one of the five (I hope this doesn't happen, though).\n\nThe bats are there... Pendleton will certainly bat over .280, Justice\nis catching fire, Bream, Nixon, Sanders, Gant... well, there's too\nmuch offense there to be kept quiet for much longer. Right now, the\nCleveland Indians have 7 players batting over .300! But I certainly\nwouldn't their seven for our respective seven (though wouldn't the\nBraves be something right now with their pitching and 7 players batting\nover .300?).\n\nThe bullpen... well, it IS suspect. But when the bats come alive, the\nguys in the bullpen will be of less concern.\n\nSo anyway, I believe the Braves will be tough to beat this season. I'm\nnot saying the Braves have automatically won the division, but I'm optim-\nistic about their season (though it's awful painful to watch them at\ntimes right now).\n\nGo Braves!!!", "Deion Sanders hit a home run in his only AB today. Nixon was 1 for 4. Infield\nsingle. Deion's batting over .400 Nixon: around .200. Whom would YOU start?\nWise up, Bobby. \n\n\nSee y'all at the ballyard\nGo Braves\nChop Chop\n\nMichael Mule'\n", "} The roar at Michigan and Trumbull should be loader than ever this year. With\n} Mike Illitch at the head and Ernie Harwell back at the booth, the tiger bats\n} will bang this summer. Already they have scored 20 runs in two games and with\n} Fielder, Tettleton, and Deer I think they can win the division. No pitching!\n} Bull! Gully, Moore, Wells, and Krueger make up a decent staff that will keep\n} the team into many games. Then there is Henneman to close it out. Watch out\n} Boston, Toronto, and Baltimore - the Motor City Kittys are back.\n\nnice woofing (or should i say meowing?).\nand yes, the Tiggers are a fun, exciting team that i would pay to see.\nbut last year, they went 75-87. this year, their offense is essentially\nthe same, and their pitching is, at best, essentially the same. so why\ndo you think they will suddenly improve to win the 92 or so games which will\nbe required to win the A.L. East? what has changed that i don't see?\n\nremember, a 20-4 win is worth as much in the standings as a 3-2 win...", "\n\n\n\tNPR's Morning Edition aired a report this morning (4/19) on\n\tHispanic/Latin American players in MLB and how they have many of\n\tthe same problems faced by black/negro/African American players\n\twhen they first entered the league. However, although baseball\n\thas adjusted to the presence of black players, many Hispanic\n\tplayers still labor under the stereotype of being \"fireballs,\n\thot blooded, flashy\". The report also emphasised that despite\n\tthe rantings (my word) of Jessie Jackson about baseballs\n\tdiscrimination against black players in its upper echelons,\n\tbaseball has actually done much better by black players than\n\tHispanic players.\n\n\tAnother interesting point was the language barrier problem. The\n\treporter elaborated on an interview with Ruben Sierra which he\n\tgave in Spanish to a Spanish speaking newspaper reporter with\n\tthe fact that there are maybe 2 major baseball writers that\n\tspeak Spanish, despite the fact that Spanish is one of (if not\n\tthe) easiest languages to learn, so easy that the author Cormac\n\tMcCarthy learned Spanish at age 50 in order to research his\n\tbook, _All The Pretty Horses_. Yet, few MLB organizations\n\temploy Spanish speaking personel, one of the exceptions being\n\tthe Oakland A's.\n\n\tAnother point:\n\n\tNearly 90% of Latin American players have some African blood.\n\tYet, most report that they'd never really felt black until\n\tplaying ball in the US.\n\n \n\tIronically enough, it is the early presence of Latin American\n\tbaseball players in the Major Leagues that support the idea that\n\tbaseball was integrated before the arrival of Jackie Robinson,\n\tas many \"light black\" or \"brown\", Latin Americans were\n\tincorporated into baseball. \n\n\t/S", "\nIt's Stankiewicz, not Stankowitz, and he's not Jewish - he's Polish\n(by the way, the correct pronunciation - according to Stanky himself,\nis \"ston-KEV-itch\". all the sportscasters get it wrong)\n\n\nThe only other Jewish ballplayer I can think of is Ron Blomberg, who is\nbest known as being the first DH to appear in a major league ballgame.", "\nGolly, I love stupid people. :-)\nListen, Rex, this is hockey. The NHL, to be precise. And in the NHL,\nthere exist these things called \"ties\". A tie occurs when a game ends\nwith the score for each team equal. Each team gets one point for a tie. \nThere also exits these things called \"wins\". A win is when one team has a\nhigher score than the opponent. (Oh yeah, only two teams play each other\nat a time, so I can say \"the opponent\".) A team gets two points for a\nwin. So, let's say that a team has a record of 38 wins, 36 losses, and 10\nties. Another team has a record of 40 wins, 38 losses and 6 ties. The\nfirst team has (38*2)+10 = 86 points. The second team has (40*2)+6 = 86\npoints. WOW! They *both* have the same number of points, but the number\nof wins is different! How did they do that??!?!?!?! That's amazing. So,\nRex, when people talk about wins being the first tiebreaker, well, then\nthat's what it means. In our example, the second team would win the\ntiebreaker and therefore have the \"better\" record, even though both teams\nhad the same number of points. If you didn't understand this post, Rex,\nmaybe you should go back and read it again, very slowly.\n:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)\n\n--\n Keith Keller\t\t\t\tLET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!\n\t\t\t\t\t\tLET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!\n\tkkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu\t\tIVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!", "But I have to agree.. Boston is a good team.. But streaky... They put\ntogether a great streak to capture first place in the Adams, but for what?\n\nThey have lost the home ice advantage for at least the first round, and might\nnot make it out of it.\n\nI would love to see the Sabres win the first round, even though I bet on the\nBruins (a 12-pack). \n\nOh well, perhaps I should start betting against the Sabres more often! ;-)\n\n\n", "How long has Don Cherry been a student at SFU? (or is that Arche Bunker?)\n\nPlease, keep this racist drivel off of the net. You're an embarassment\nto Canadians everywhere.", "To really speed up the game umps need to START CALLING STRIKES the way\nthey used to. I'm talking about making the strike zone start at the\nknees and go up to the top of the letters. Forget this \"the strike zone\nis in the general area of the groin\". A lot less 3-and-2 counts and a\nquicker game. \n", "\nYou know... after I finished laughing I thought: This would be a great\nfinal. Two Canadian teams with lots of tradition and all that Don Cherry\nnonsense behind them and a nail-biter finish.\n\nOf course, I would prefer a Vancouver--Montreal final with Vancouver\nscoring the final goal....\n\nPity neither will happen.", "\nPeople are seeming to be less concerned about Kariya's size as he leads\nteams to championships (World Junior and US College) and collects\nawards...everyone is watching with interest as to how he will perform\non left wing with Eric Lindros and Mark Recchi at the world\nchampionships.\n\n4 months of go...chances were not very good that he would go in the\ntop five...now it has become probable...a great world championship\ncould put him in the top 3 with Daigle and Pronger.", "\nBut you still need the pitching staff to hold the opposing team to\none run.", "\n\nOkay, I'm curious. Why? Are you expectin the Commissioner to fly in and\nstand on the pitchers mound to yell at the fans to sit down, or what?\n\n", "\nThem thar's fighting words...hardly a force...geez...miss the playoffs\nonce in 15 years, and even after making the final four 3 times in the\nlast five years, and everyone thinks its doomsville.\n\n\nFedorov, Primeau, Kozlov, Lidstrom, Sillinger, Konstantinov, Drake,\nKennedy, Racine, and Cheveldae were already in the pipeline due to\nDevellano...Murray inherited these guys...in addition to Yzerman,\nProbert, Carson, Chiasson, etc.\n\n\nNo...Quinn had far less...Murray took over Detroit at a time to \ntake advantage of all of Devellano's good drafting...if Devellano\nhad not given in to Demers request to make the Oates trade, he might\nstill be GM.", "\n\nIn fact, he's a complete and total dickhead on at least 2 newsgroups\n(this one and rec.sport.hockey). Since hockey season is almost over,\nhe's back to being a dickhead in r.s.bb.\n", "The FLYERS blew a 3-0 lead over the Buffalo Sabres in the second period, but\nKevin Dineen's 7th career hat trick powered them to their 7th consecutive win,\n7-4 over the Sabres who have now lost 7 in a row. Alexander Mogilny led the\ncomeback scoring his 75th and 76th goals of the season which tied the game at\n3 in the 2nd period and 4 in the 3rd. Tommy Soderstrom stopped 41 of 45 shots\non goal to improve his own record to 20-17-6 as he was tested by Mogilny and\nLaFontaine all night.\n\nRoster move:\n\nAndre Faust was once again recalled from Hershey, Shawn Cronin was a healthy\nscratch.\n\nLines:\n\nEklund-Lindros-Recchi\nBeranek-Brind'Amour-Dineen\nLomakin-Butsayev-Conroy\nFaust-Acton-Brown\n\nGalley-Bowen\nYushkevich-Hawgood\nCarkner-McGill\n\nTommy Soderstrom\n\nGame Summary:\n\nSay, if anybody from Buffalo is reading this, where did you people get that\nwoman who sang the anthems? We had to turn down the volume!\n\nThe FLYERS defense started out the game showing everybody why the FLYERS have\nbeen shutting teams out lately by holding the Sabres to only 8 shots in the\nfirst period. They then showed everybody why they will be playing golf Sunday\nwhen they gave up 37 shots in the last two periods. Maybe Tommy told them that\nhe was getting bored back there...\n\nMark Recchi opened the scoring so fast that if you blinked you missed it. After\nBuffalo won the faceoff and dumped, Tommy wrapped the puck around the boards\nto Eric 1/2 way up on his left. Eric dropped it to Galley, and he sent it ahead\nto Recchi steaming out of the zone. Mark skated into the center circle, passed\nthe puck to himself through the legs of Richard Smehlik, skated around him and\nin on Fuhr. Smehlik was pulling at him all the way through the zone with his\nstick, Recchi drifted right, drifted back left, and slid the puck back to the\nright past Fuhr for a 1-0 FLYERS lead at 0:18. It was so beautiful Eric and\nGarry should turn down their assists :-).\n\nThe FLYERS kept the pressure on Fuhr for a while after that, but he was strong\nand kept the FLYERS from doing further damage. The game then became a defensive\nstruggle for a while. The Sabres got the first chance on the power play when\nTerry Carkner took a boarding minor at 10:26 for crunching Dale Hawerchuk into\nthe boards in the FLYERS zone. LaFontaine got the only scoring chance, and not\na terribly good one, as the FLYERS smothered the Sabres power play. Mogilny got\na post after it was over. The 25th consecutive penalty kill for the FLYERS.\n\nKeith Carney took a holding penalty at 13:31 for taking down Mark Recchi to\ngive the FLYERS a power play. The best penalty killing team in the league\ndidn't allow the FLYERS a shot on goal, although the FLYERS did create a\ngood scoring chance for Lindros who partially fanned on his shot. Towards\nthe end of the period the play started going end to end, but everybody kept\nmissing the net. Greg Hawgood took an interference penalty at 18:19 to give\nthe Sabres another power play, but they couldn't get anything going and the\nfans expressed their displeasure, particularly when they iced the puck. Shots\nwere 8-6 Buffalo after the FLYERS had led 6-2 at one point.\n\nMike Emrick interviewed FLYERS president Jay Snider between periods. Jay was\ndisappointed to not make the playoffs, but not discouraged. This was considered\na rebuilding year after *The Trade* and he seemed very happy with the way the\nseason went. When asked if he agonized over *The Trade* he said that it was\nRuss Farwell's trade and not his, that it only was an issue for him and Ed\nSnider as far as the money. But yes, there was some agonizing, and they'd do\nit all over again. When asked how the coaching situation would be handled for\nnext year he said that it's Russ' call, and Russ will evaluate things at the\nend of the season. He feels that they're 3 years away from a shot at the Cup.\nHe expects to get into the playoffs next year, have a shot at a division title\nthe following year, and a shot at the finals the year after that. This based\non the current level of play and anticipated improvements over the summer.\n\nHe's very happy with the re-alignment (he called it \"outstanding\"). Happy with\nthe current expansion, feels that the talent pool is big enough with the unflux\nof Europeans, but feels that they must make sure existing franchises are stable.\nSeemed to like the idea of playing in the Olympics (booo) but said that there\nwas a definite split among owners and that this certainly would only happen in\nfour years if there was a consensus.\n\nThe Sabres gave the FLYERS their second power play of the game when Brad May\ntook a tripping penalty at 0:51 of the second. The FLYERS had a little trouble\ngetting started, but eventually did. Hawgood took a pass as he was moving\nthroug the neutral zone and handed the puck to Eklund just outside the Sabres\nblue line along the right boards. Eklund carried into the zone nad passed\nacross to Dineen who tried a one timer from between the blue line and the\ntop of the left circle. He half fanned on it, and sent the puck trickling\nthrough the slot. Fuhr didn't know where it was, though, and Hawgood won the\nrace to it and flipped it into essentially an open net at 2:15.\n\nThen Mogilny on a breakaway. He slipped through two FLYERS at the blue line\nand went in on Soderstrom. He went with the backhander, but Soderstrom was\nall over it.\n\nThe FLYERS then took some bad discipline type penalties that really hurt them.\nViacheslav Butsayev took a double minor for roughing and high sticking when\nBarnaby got under his skin and drew one minor, then according to Gary Dornhoefer\ntook a dive to get the other (there was no video) at 4:22. The Sabres coudln't\nget started. Ryan McGill poked at the puck just after a Sabre carried into the\nFLYERS zone, and after a bunch of people poked at it Dineen emerged with it and\nheaded the other way. It started out a 1 on 1, but Brind'Amour hustled ahead to\nmake it a 2 on 1 and back off the defenseman. Dineen let it rip from the top\nof the right circle to make it 3-0 FLYERS at 5:40. That was all for Fuhr, John\nMuckler sent in Dominik Hasek to take over.\n\nBut the Sabres still had lots of power play time. Again they took some time to\njust get into the FLYERS zone, and when they finally did the FLYERS were all\nover them. Boos began to ring through the building. But they finally got through\nSoderstrom on an ugly goal. Smehlik took a shot from the top of the zone that\nmissed and kicked out to Hawerchuk in the slot. Hawerchuk tried a backhander as\nhe skated towards the goal line to the right as Galley dove down to block it.\nMistake #1, he should have let Soderstrom handle the backhander and worried\nabout A) the rebound or B) Barnaby who was camped behind the goal line right\nnext to the net. Well, the rebound dropped right next to Soderstrom, and\nmistake #2, Galley just laid there and watched Barnaby get THREE hacks at the\npuck before he finally pushed it through the goalie. He didn't even swing his\nstick out to try and knock the puck away. With the goal, at 7:48, two streaks\nend for the FLYERS. 150:28 of shutout hockey, and 27 straight penalty kills.\n\nLindros put them right back on the power play at 8:36 with a high sticking\nminor, I think it was Barnaby again. This time the Sabres were able to get\nset up quickly, but couldn't get too much quality on goal. The Sabres continued\nto keep the puck in the FLYERS end for a while after the power play ended.\nThings evetually settled down, but then the other very bad penalty. McGill\nallowed Barnaby to get under his skin and slashed his stick just before a\nfaceoff. The gloves were dropped, and McGill started pounding the crap out of\nhim. But during the fight, he gave Barnaby a head butt with his helmet, and\nthat meant a match penalty. 2 for slashing, 5 fighting and 5 for the major,\n7 minutes of power play time for the Sabres at 14:15, Barnaby only got 5.\n\nThe FLYERS were keeping them at bay for a while, but there was only so long\nthey could do that. After a couple of good Sabre chances, Audette handed to\nLedyard at the point, and Ledyard sent a drive that was knocked down by\nSoderstrom. LaFontaine whacked at the bouncing puck from the left side of\nthe net, and knocked it over to Randy Wood at the right. Soderstrom had\nmoved over to play LaFontaine, and since Yushkevich and Carkner were waving\nat the puck instead of picking up men, Wood just slid it into the empty net\nat 17:34 to close the FLYERS lead to 3-2. LaFontaine was actually trying to\nput it on net, but half fanned on it and got a break.\n\nThe FLYERS then got some shorthanded pressure in the Sabres zone, but Hasek\nwas strong. Finally it was Keith Carney passing ahead to Hawerchuk into the\nneutral zone, and Hawerchuk sent a good backhand pass to Mogilny at the FLYERS\nblue line. Another mini-breakaway for Mogilny, he elected to shoot from the\nleft circle, and he threaded the needle to get it just inside the far post at\n18:56 for his 75th of the season. Ironically, the youth hockey tip between\nthe 1st and second period was Tommy Soderstrom talking about cutting off\nangles...\n\nThat was all in the 2nd, shots were 19-7 Sabres.\n\nInto the 3rd period, and Pelle EKlund blew a golden opportunity to get the\nFLYERS the lead back. A 2 on 1, Acton with the puck, he dropped to Eklund in\nthe slot, and Eklund held the puck as he slid through the left circle until\nhe had almost no angle at all to shoot from. When he finally did shoot, he\nhit the far post. That was still during the carryover power play time.\n\nThan an incredible almost goal. Randy Wood skated around Recchi and Hawgood\nuntouched into Soderstrom. Soderstrom goes down, Wood pokes the puck under\nSoderstrom, and a black object hits the back of the net. Red light comes on,\nhorn sounds, crowd cheers. But up to the video replay booth, for some strange\nreason, and in the meantime Emrick and Dornhoefer try to figure out what they\ncould be reviewing. Well, it turns out that it was the taped up stick blade\nthat went into the net, not the puck. Emrick mentions that one of the criteria\nfor scoring a goal is that the puck must go into the net...\n\nDave Hannan then took out Recchi and got a holding minor at 2:35. The FLYERS\ncould not get anything going at all. They finally got set up 1/2 way through,\nbut were kept on the perimeter. As time ran out, Beranek stripped the puck\nfrom a Sabre in the offensive zone along the right boards and passed it across\nto Eklund at the top of the left circle. Eklund saw Dineen heading at the net\njust inside the right circle and passed through to him. Dineen fumbled the pass,\nbut twice directed it at Hasek, and Eklund swooped in and chipped the bouncing\npuck over the goalie for his 11th at 4:42. 4-3 FLYERS.\n\nBut the Sabres came right back. LaFontaine picked up the puck in his offensive\nleft corner and slid it to Bob Erry behind the FLYERS net. Erry started to skate\nout, but then just dropped the puck back to nobody behind the net. Mogilny flew\nin, skated around, and stuffed it through Soderstrom's 5 hole for his 76th at\n5:24 to tie the game at 4.\n\nThen Hawerchuk took a retaliatory roughing penalty at 5:55. The FLYERS set up\nin the Sabres zone, and stayed there. Off a faceoff high in the Sabres zone in\nthe middle. While Brind'Amour wrestled for the puck, Dineen snuck through the\nline and wristed a perfect shot low to Hasek's glove side at 6:44.\n\nPlay started to go back and forth until Hawgood took a roughing penalty at 8:19.\nThe FLYERS dumped the puck into the Sabres zone. Brind'Amour and Ledyard went\nafter it, and Rod got the puck. He backed away from the right boards, skated\nto the right faceoff dot, and passed between his legs to Dineen crashing\nthrough the slot all by himself. Dineen waited patiently and lifted it over\nthe blocker of Hasek for a 6-4 FLYERS lead at 8:39. 3rd hat trick of the season\nfor Dineen, 7th of his career, 2nd shorthanded goal of the game for him 35th\nof the season.\n\nThen Carney took a tripping penalty at 9:02 to kill the rest of the Sabres\npower play. Not much action on the 4 on 4, and the Sabres got most of the\nchances on the FLYERS resulting power play.\n\nPlay went end to end for quite a while after that and both goalies had to\nmake some big saves. The Sabres weren't able to pull Hasek as time was running \nout as the FLYERS wouldn't allow any consistant possession for the Sabres.\nFinally as time was running out Ken Sutton misplayed the puck in his own left\ncorner and Brind'Amour stripped it away from him. He pulled away and found\nDineen on the other side of the left circle, and Dineen found Acton at the\nright of Hasek. He slid the puck between two Sabres defenders, and Acton\nchipped it back to the far side of Hasek for his 8th of the season at 19:48\non his 35th birthday. That was all the scoring, shots were 18-13 Buffalo,\nand the ice was showered with plastic drinking mugs handed out before the\ngame.\n\nSo another strong game from Tommy Soderstrom who hadn't been tested much\nin his last couple of starts. Kevin Dineen has a career high 6 point night\n(unless he had a better night earlier in the season, but I don't think so).\nThe FLYERS longest winning streak in 3 years, 30 goals for only 11 against\nwith three shutouts. Eric Lindros is 8th in league with 33 even strength goals\ndespite missing 23 games with injury. 4 points out of 4th, clinched 5th place\nsince the Rangers lose the tie breaker.\n\nA couple misc notes:\n\nForget the Mike Keenan rumors, there will be a press conference tommorrow to\nannounce that he will be head coach of the New York Rangers next year.\n\nIn the last notes I mentioned that Garry Galley won the Barry Ashbee Award,\nbut I failed to mention that the award is for the best defenseman.\n\nThe Times of Trenton has reported that \"a preeminent specialist from Oklahoma\"\nhas looked over Tommy Soderstrom's medical record and determined that no\nfurther tests are necessary in the near future.\n\nSame paper had a blurb about Bill Dineen being asked about whether or not he\nexpected to be back next year. His response was that he wants to come back,\nhe feels he did a good job this year, but that he would cheerfully accept a\nrole scouting if Farwell didn't want him back.\n\nFLYERS team record watch:\n\nEric Lindros:\n\n41 goals, 33 assists, 74 points\n\n(rookie records)\nclub record goals:\t\t\tclub record points:\nEric Lindros\t40 1992-93\t\tDave Poulin\t76 1983-84\nBrian Propp\t34 1979-80\t\tBrian Propp\t75 1979-80\nRon Flockhart\t33 1981-82\t\tEric Lindros\t74 1992-93\nDave Poulin\t31 1983-84\t\tRon Flockhart\t72 1981-82\nBill Barber\t30 1972-73\t\tPelle Eklund\t66 1985-86\n\nMark Recchi:\n\n52 goals, 69 assists, 121 points.\n\nclub record goals:\t\t\tclub record points:\nReggie Leach\t61 1975-76\t\tMark Recchi\t121 1992-93*\nTim Kerr\t58 1985-86,86-87\tBobby Clarke\t119 1975-76\nTim Kerr\t54 1983-84,84-85\tBobby Clarke\t116 1974-75\nMark Recchi\t52 1992-93\t\tBill Barber\t112 1975-76\nRick Macliesh\t50 1972-73\t\tBobby Clarke\t104 1972-73\nBill Barber\t50 1975-76\t\tRick Macliesh\t100 1972-73\nReggie Leach\t50 1979-80\n\n*More than 80 games.\n\nFLYERS career years:\n\nPlayer\t\tPoints\tBest Prior Season\nMark Recchi\t121\t113 (90-91 Penguins)\nRod Brind'Amour\t84\t77 (91-92 FLYERS)\nGarry Galley\t62\t38 (84-85 Kings)\nBrent Fedyk\t59\t35 (90-91 Red Wings)\n\nThat's all for now...", "1976 Montreal Olympics philatelic souvenirs: \n \n1. Color-illustrated booklet in French/English containing all stamps \nissued for the Games (mint never hinged) in slipcase, over $6.00 \nface value in stamps. $13.00 + $2.00 insured first class mailing \n \n2. Unusual \"desk pad holder\" with Olympic rings on the cover and the \nMontreal stadium inside. All the Canadian Olympic stamps are \ndisplayed on the \"cover\" under heavy plastic. Again, over $6.00\nface value. $11.00 + $2.50 insured first class mailing. 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", "dtype": "f4" } }, { "hoverinfo": "text", "hovertext": [ "\n\nYes, but no more than he is worth. :-). Seriously: Jerome is merely\n(and grandly) another Christian witness, to be taken for what he can\ntell us. He is one in the community of saints. You seem to wish for\na greater polarization and dichotomy between Catholic and Protestant\nthought than seems to me, from a historical perspective, to be valid.\nTo be sure, Rome rejects (some significant aspects of) Protestant\nthought just as vehemently as Protestants reject (some significant\naspects of) Roman thought. Other than some peoplw who apparently try\nto embody the greatest extreme of this rejection, on either side, there\nis not quite so vast a gulf fixed as casual observers seem to assume.\n\nEcumenical consultations between Rome and the Lutherans, as well as \nthose between Rome and the Anglican communion (to which I belong) show\nvery nearly complete convergence on understanding the basic theological\nissues -- the sticking points tend to be ecclesiology and church polity.\nThus, for example, as you go on to say:\n\n\nMany of us do not regard a papal decretal as having any necessary (as\nopposed to political) significance. Sometimes it will, sometimes it\nwon't. You misread me if you think that my communion, at least, \"throws\nout\" the deuterocanonical books. Nor do I think you should overstress\nthe sense in which the more Reformed may do so.\n\n\nI seriously suggest you rethink what you are saying here. It verges on,\nand could be taken as, anti-Semitic in the worst sense. The \"unbelieving\"\nJews were, according to what I understand as a Christian, the chosen\npeople of God, and the recipients of His pre-Incarnational revelation.\nI think they have some say in the matter. The Javneh meeting should not\nbe over-interpreted. A recent magisterial study titled _Mikra_ (I don't\nhave more citation information on hand, sorry) produced primarily from\nthe background of Christian (rather than specifically Jewish) scholarship\nsuggests strongly that the Javneh meeting mostly resolved a lingering\nquestion, where in practice the canon had long been fixed on the basis\nof the scrolls that were kept in the Temple, and thereby \"made the hands\nunclean\" when used. The list of \"sacred books\" that may be drawn up from\nJosephus and other pre-Yavneh sources correspond (plus or minus one book,\nif I rememeber the chapter correctly) to the current Jewish canon of Tanakh.\n\nAll of this is not to \"throw out\" the deuterocanonicals (what, by the way,\nis YOUR position about the books the Greeks accept and Rome does not? :-))\n-- just to observe that the issue is complex and simply binary judgment\ndoes not do it justice.\n\n", "FLAME ON\n\nReading through the posts about Kirlian (whatever spelling)\nphotography I couldn't help but being slightly disgusted by the\nnarrow-minded, \"I know it all\", \"I don't believe what I can't see or\nmeasure\" attitude of many people out there.\n\nI am neither a real believer, nor a disbeliever when it comes to\nso-called \"paranormal\" stuff; but as far as I'm concerned, it is just\nas likely as the existence of, for instance, a god, which seems to be\nquite accepted in our societies - without any scientific basis.\n\nI am convinced that it is a serious mistake to close your mind to\nsomething, ANYTHING, simply because it doesn't fit your current frame\nof reference. History shows that many great people, great scientists,\nwere people who kept an open mind - and were ridiculed by sceptics.\n\nEspecially the USA should be grateful; after all, Columbus did not\ndrop off the edge of the earth.\n\nFLAME OFF, or end sermon :-)", "sm[?]>a real Christian unless you're born again is a very fundamental biblical\nsm[?]>conversion and regeneration are 'probably' part of some small USA-based cult\n\n\nSome of these \"cults\", which seems like a rather dismissive term\nto me, are pretty big here in the USA. Most of them\nare quite respectable & neiborly & do not resemble Branch Davidians\nin the least; confusing them is a mistake. What about \"live &\nlet live\", folks? I'm sure we can uncover a few extremist loonies\nwho are Catholic -- the anti-abortion movement in the USA seems to have a\nfew hard cases in it, for example.\n\n\nI have to agree Matthew with this; I have certainly encountered a lot\nof anti-Catholic-religion propaganda & emotion (& some bigotry) from\nmembers of certain religious groups here. They also practice their\nmissionary work with zeal among Catholics in the United States, but to\nsomeone who is or was raised Catholic such rhetoric is pretty\noff-putting. It may work better in an environment where there's a lot\nof popular anti-clericalism.\n\nFollow-ups set elsewhere, this no longer seems very relevant to Celtic issues\nto me.", "\n\n\n\t\t\t\t\tPardon me, a humble atheist, but exactly what is the difference\nbetween holding a revealed truth with blind faith as its basis (i.e.\nregardless of any evidence that you may find to the contrary) as an\nabsolute truth, fully expecting people to believe you and arrogance?\n\n They sound like one and the same to me.\n\n And nearly every time I meet a christian (or for that matter, any\nother theist) who tries to convert me, I find this proven over and over\nagain.\n\n I see no wisdom whatsoever in your words\n\n\n Unfaithfully yours,\n\n Pixie\n\n\n p.s. If you do sincerely believe that a god exists, why do you follow\nit blindly? \n\n Do the words \"Question Authority\" mean anything to you?", "< > Simple logic arguments are folly. If you read the Bible you\nwill see\n\nI can't. It seems Jesus used logic to make people using logic\nlook like fools? No, that does not sound right, he maybe just\ntold they were fools, and that's it, and people believed that...\nHmm, does not sound reasonable either...\n\nI find it always very intriguing to see people stating that\ntranscendental values can't be explained, and then in the\nnext sentence they try to explain these unexplained values.\nHighly strange.\n\nCheers,\nKent", "Hypostasis\n\n[I've explained it here before. If you want the full document, ask me by mail\n--Rex] \n\n\n \"Questions arise as we begin to think about LOGOS and what His inner\nconsciousness was composed of. We need to clarify the two natures of Christ\nbriefly. The divine nature, which has existed eternally, did not undertake any\nessential changes during the incarnation which would cause a conflict with the\nattributes of God, the foremost of these being His immutability. This would\nmean that it remained impassable, that is, incapable of suffering and death,\nfree from ignorance and insusceptible to weakness and temptation. In the realm\nof the divine nature it is better to say that the Son of God became that which\nwas not absolute-and in Himself. The result of the incarnation was that the\ndivine LOGOS could be ignorant and weak, could be tempted and suffer and die,\nnot in His divine nature, but by the derivation of His possession of a human\nnature.\n This would mean that both the properties of the divine nature and the\nhuman nature are properties of the person, and therefore ascribed to the\nperson. By this reason we can say that the person can be omnipotent,\nomniscient, and omnipresent, yet at the same time be also a man of limited\npower, knowledge, a man of sorrows, subject to human wants and miseries. There\nis, however, no penetration of one nature into the other. Deity can no more\nshare the imperfections of humanity than humanity can share in the essential\nperfection of the Godhead.\n We are not to assume that there is a double personality due to the\npossession of the double natures. Christ's human nature is impersonal, in that\nit attains self-consciousness and self-determination in the personality of the\nGod-man. We must now differentiate between the person and the nature of the\nMan. Nature is defined:\n\n\"the distinguishing qualities or properties of something; the fundamental\ncharacter, disposition or temperament of a living being, innate and\nunchangeable.\"\n\n Nature is then, in essence, the substance possessed in common, in as such\nthe Trinity have one nature. There is also a common nature of mankind. \nPersonality, on the other hand, is the separate subsistence of nature, with the\npower of consciousness and will. It is for this reason that the human nature\nof Christ has not, nor ever had, a separate subsistence, that it is impersonal.\n LOGOS, the God-man, represents the principle of personality. It is equally\nimportant to see that self-consciousness and self-determination do not, as\nsuch, belong to the nature. It is for this reason that we can justifiably say\nthat Jesus did not have two consciousness or two wills, but rather one. It is\ntheanthropic, an activity of the one personality which unites in itself the\nhuman and the divine natures, being that neither the consciousness nor the will\nare simply human or simply divine.\"\n\n\n[The quotation given above is not identified, and it's not entirely\nclear to me what position Loren is taking on it. Just for clarity,\nlet me note that the view expressed in it is one of the classic\nChristological heresies -- monothelitism. That's the position that\nChrist's two natures were not complete, in that there was only one\nwill. In most cases (which I think includes this example), it was the\nhuman will that was regarded as missing.\n\nNormally people who talk about Christ's human nature as being\n\"impersonal\" mean it in a somewhat more abstract sense. That is, they\nare using \"person\" as hypostatis, not in the usual English sense of\npersonality. In this use, the doctrine is called \"anhypostasia\".\nPersonally I think anhypostasia is just a more sophisticated way of\ndenying that the Logos took on humanity fully. However it has never\nbeen formally ruled a heresy, and in fact has been held by influential\ntheologians both ancient and modern (e.g. Athanasius). But the\nquotation above appears to be going farther than even Athanasius went,\ninto the realm of the overtly heretical.", "\nBut if He/She did you would probably consider it rape. \n\n\nObviously there are many Christians who have tried and do believe. So .. ?\n\n\nNo one asks you to swallow everything, in fact Jesus warns against it. But let\nme ask you a question. Do you beleive what you learn in history class, or for\nthat matter anything in school. I mean it's just what other people have told\nyou and you don't want to swallow what others say. right ... ?\n\nThe life , death, and resurection of Christ is documented historical fact. As much\nas anything else you learn. How do you choose what to believe and what not to?\nI could argue that George Washington is a myth. He never lived because I don't\nhave any proof except what I am told. However all the major events of the life\nof Jesus Christ were fortold hundreds of years before him. Neat trick uh?", "\n\nWell, yes. This is the real mystery of the matter, and why I am rather\ndubious of a lot of the source theories.\n\nThere are a number of places where the Masoretic Text (MT) of the OT is\nobscure and presumably corrupted. These are reproduced exactly from copy to\ncopy. The DSS tend to reflect the same \"errors\". This would appear to tell\nus that, at least from some point, people began to copy the texts very\nexactingly and mechanically. The problem is, we don't know what they did\nbefore that. But it seems as though accurate transmission begins at the\npoint at which the texts are perceived as texts. They may be added to (and\nin some situations, such as the end of Mark, material is lost), but for the\nmost part there are no substantial changes to the existing text.\n\nYou're basically trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. Some people\nlike to use the game of \"telephone\" as a metaphor for the transmission of\nthe texts. This clearly wrong. The texts are transmitted accurately.", "\nFirst, off I'd say that the impact if right before your eyes! 8-) That we are\neven discussing this is a major impact in and of itself. Further, the early\nchurch bears testimony to the impact.\n\n\nOf course they knew where it was. Don't forget that Jesus was seen by both\nthe Jews and the Romans as a troublemaker. Pilate was no fool and didn't \nneed the additional headaches of some fishermen stealing Jesus' body to \nmake it appear He had arisen. Since Jesus was buried in the grave of a \nman well know to the Sanhedrin, to say that they didn't know where He was\nburied begs the question.\n\nNow, you say that you think that the disciples stole the body. But think on\nthis a moment. Would you die to maintain something you KNEW to be a \ndeliberate lie!? If not, then why do you think the disciples would!? Now, I'm\nnot talking about dying for something you firmly believe to be the truth, \nbut unbeknown to you, it is a lie. Many have done this. No, I'm talking about\ndying, by beheading, stoning, crucifixion, etc., for something you know to\nbe a lie! Thus, you position with regards to the disciples stealing the \nbody seems rather lightweight to me.\n\nAs for graverobbers, why risk the severe penalties for grave robbing over \nthe body of Jesus? He wasn't buried with great riches. So, again, this is\nan argument that can be discounted.\n\nThat leaves you back on square one. What happened to the body!?\n\nIHL, Gene\n\n--\n The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of\n North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information\n Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.\n internet: laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80", " \n\nI once heard an arguement from a xtian friend similar to this.\n\"Christianity is a Higher Logic. Athiest like u will not be able\nto understand it. Your atheist logic is very low. Only thru faith can \nwe understand the Higher Logic in God\".\n\nSo I asked him, \"So what is this Higher Logic?\"\n\nHis answer, \"I don't know.\"\n\nThis, & the posting above highlights one of the worst things about\nxtainity. It is abundantly clear to both atheists & xtains that\ntheir believe is both illogical & irrational. Their tactics, therefore:\nto disregard logic & rationality altogether. Silly excuses such as\nthe ones above and those such as, \"How can u trust science, science\nwas invented by man!\", only goes to further show the weakness of\ntheir religion.\n\nIn my country where xtainity was and still is rapidly growing, xtains\nnever try to convert people by appealing to their brains or senses.\nThey know it would be a fruitless act, given the irrational nature\nof their faith.\nThey would wait until a person is in distress, then they would comfort\nhim/her and addict them to their emotional opium.\n\nNever in my life had I met a person who converted to xtainity coz it's\n\"reasonable\". Rationality has no place in xtainity (see xtian arguement\nagainst \"reason\" above).\n\n--\n\nThe UnEnlightened One\n------------------+--------------------------------------------------------\n | \nTan Chade Meng | The wise man tells his wife that he understands her.\nSingapore | \ncmtan@iss.nus.sg | The fool tries to prove it. \n | \n------------------+--------------------------------------------------------\n\n\n--", "\n\nWell, Michael, I don't know if clh has left them in the faq (Maybe you should\npost the \"how to get there map again), but I posted two or three lengthy\nexegetical paper on these verses. They looked at the OT, NT and\nintertestimental usages of terms in reference. I would suggest you read those\nbefore you talk about a \"need\" in exegetical studies. If those aren't enough,\nI could also provide \"The source and NT Meaning of Apsevokoitai\". Dr James\nDeYoung published it in THE MASTERS SEMINARY JOURNAL in fall of '92. To read\nany of these 4 papers shows that the shoe is on the other foot as far as a need\nfor honest exegesis.\n\nAgain, please refer to the faq file, or if you are unable to acess it, drop me\na line and I will enclose them to you.\n\nRexlex@fnal.fnal.gov ", "Quoth the Moderator:\n\n\nIn a short poem (\"God in His mercy made / the fixed pains of Hell\"),\nC. S. Lewis expresses an idea that I'm sure was current among others,\nbut I haven't be able to find its source:\n\nthat even Hell is an expression of mercy, because God limits the amount\nof separation from Him, and hence the amount of agony, that one can\nachieve.\n", "Andy Byler writes on the Biblical basis for the dogma of the\nImmaculate Conception:\n\n + I will put enmity between you [the Serpent] and the woman, and\n + between your seed and her seed, she [can also be read he] shall\n + crush your head and you shall bruise her [or his] heel.\n + -Genesis 3.15\n\n + He who commits sin is of the devil ... -1 John 3.8\n\n + Hail, full of grace [greek - kecharitomene], the Lord is with\n + thee ... -Luke 1.28\n\nIn the Hebrew of Genesis 3:15, the gender is clearly masculine.\n\n + HE shall crush your head, and you shall bruise HIS heel.\n\nThe Latin has feminine forms, only by an accident of grammar.\n\nAndrew stated that KECHARITOMENE means not just \"full of grace\" but\n\"having a plenitude or perfection of grace.\" The word is used\nelsewhere in the New Testament only in Ephesians 1:6\n\n + Unto the praise of the glory of his grace, in which he hath\n + GRACED us in his beloved Son. (Rheims-Douay translation)\n\nI cannot find any indication in my dictionary that the verb implies\nanything as strong as Andrew suggests, nor does the Ephesians\npassage suggest that the verb means \"to preserve from any taint of\noriginal or actual sin from the first moment of existence.\" I should\nlike to see a comment on the meaning of the verb, preferably not\nfrom s writer who is discussing Luke 1:28 at the moment.", "Hello,\n\nI'm writing a paper on the role of the catholic church in Poland after 1989. \nCan anyone tell me more about this, or fill me in on recent books/articles(\nin english, german or french). Most important for me is the role of the \nchurch concerning the abortion-law, religious education at schools,\nbirth-control and the relation church-state(government). Thanx,", "I wrote in response to dlecoint@garnet.acns.fsu.edu (Darius_Lecointe):\n\n\nWas Paul a God too? Is an interpretation of the words of Paul of higher\npriority than the direct word of Jesus in Matt5:14-19? Paul begins\nRomans 14 with \"If someone is weak in the faith ...\" Do you count\nyourself as one who is weak in the faith?\n\n\nYes, but what does the Bible have to say? What did Jesus say? Paul\ncloses Romans 14 with, \"On the other hand, the person with doubts about\nsomething who eats it anyway is guilty, because he isn't acting on his\nfaith, and any failure to act on faith is a sin.\" Gaus, ISBN:0-933999-99-2\nHave you read the Ten Commandments which are a portion of the Law? Have\nyou read Jesus' word in Matt5:14-19? Is there any doubt in your mind\nabout what is right and what is sin (Greek hamartia = missing the mark)?\n\n\nWhereas, the Ten Commandments and Jesus' words in Matt5:14-19 are fairly\nclear, are they not?\n\n\nMatt5:14-19 doesn't answer your question?\n\n\nBreaking bread - roughly synonymous with eating.\n\n\nHow do you unite this concept of yours with the Ten Commandments and\nJesus's word in Matt5:14-19?\n\n\nOr, they assumed that the Ten Commandments and Jesus' word in\nMatt5:14-19 actually stood for something? Perhaps they were \"strong in\nthe faith?\"\n\n---------------------------\n\n[No, I don't believe that Paul can overrule God. However Paul was\nwriting for a largely Gentile audience. The Law was regarded by Jews\nat the time (and now) as binding on Jews, but not on Gentiles. There\nare rules that were binding on all human beings (the so-called Noachic\nlaws), but they are quite minimal. The issue that the Church had to\nface after Jesus' death was what to do about Gentiles who wanted to\nfollow Christ. The decision not to impose the Law on them didn't say\nthat the Law was abolished. It simply acknowledged that fact that it\ndidn't apply to Gentiles. Thus there is no contradiction with Mat 5.\nAs far as I can tell, both Paul and other Jewish Christians did\ncontinue to participate in Jewish worship on the Sabbath. Thus they\ncontinued to obey the Law. The issue was (and is) with Gentile\nChristians, who are not covered by the Law (or at least not by the\nceremonial aspects of it).\n\nJesus dealt mostly with Jews. I think we can reasonably assume that\nMat 5 was directed to a Jewish audience. He did interact with\nGentiles a few times (e.g. the centurion whose slave was healed and a\ncouple of others). The terms used to describe the centurion (see Luke\n7) suggest that he was a \"God-fearer\", i.e. a Gentile who followed\nGod, but had not adopted the whole Jewish Law. He was commended by\nJewish elders as a worthy person, and Jesus accepted him as such.\nThis seems to me to indicate that Jesus accepted the prevailing view\nthat Gentiles need not accept the Law.\n\nHowever there's more involved if you want to compare Jesus and Paul on\nthe Law. In order to get a full picture of the role of the Law, we\nhave to come to grips with Paul's apparent rejection of the Law, and\nhow that relates to Jesus' commendation of the Law. At least as I\nread Paul, he says that the Law serves a purpose that has been in a\ncertain sense superceded. Again, this issue isn't one of the\nabolition of the Law. In the middle of his discussion, Paul notes\nthat he might be understood this way, and assures us that that's not\nwhat he intends to say. Rather, he sees the Law as primarily being\npresent to convict people of their sinfulness. But ultimately it's an\nimpossible standard, and one that has been superceded by Christ.\nPaul's comments are not the world's clearest here, and not everyone\nagrees with my reading. But the interesting thing to notice is that\neven this radical position does not entail an abolition of the Law.\nIt still remains as an uncompromising standard, from which not an iota\nor dot may be removed. For its purpose of convicting of sin, it's\nimportant that it not be relaxed. However for Christians, it's not\nthe end -- ultimately we live in faith, not Law.\n\nWhile the theoretical categories they use are rather different, in the\nend I think Jesus and Paul come to a rather similar conclusion. The\nquoted passage from Mat 5 should be taken in the context of the rest\nof the Sermon on the Mount, where Jesus shows us how he interprets the\nLaw. The \"not an iota or dot\" would suggest a rather literal reading,\nbut in fact that's not Jesus' approach. Jesus' interpretations\nemphasize the intent of the Law, and stay away from the ceremonial\ndetails. Indeed he is well known for taking a rather free attitude\ntowards the Sabbath and kosher laws. Some scholars claim that Mat\n5:17-20 needs to be taken in the context of 1st Cent. Jewish\ndiscussions. Jesus accuses his opponents of caring about giving a\ntenth of even the most minor herbs, but neglecting the things that\nreally matter: justice, mercy and faith, and caring about how cups and\nplates are cleaned, but not about the fact that inside the people who\nuse them are full of extortion and rapacity. (Mat 23:23-25) This, and\nthe discussion later in Mat 5, suggest that Jesus has a very specific\nview of the Law in mind, and that when he talks about maintaining the\nLaw in its full strength, he is thinking of these aspects of it.\nPaul's conclusion is similar. While he talks about the Law being\nsuperceded, all of the specific examples he gives involve the\n\"ceremonial law\", such as circumcision and the Sabbath. He is quite\nconcerned about maintaining moral standards.\n\nThe net result of this is that when Paul talks about the Law being\nsuperceded, and Jesus talks about the Law being maintained, I believe\nthey are talking about different aspects of the Law. Paul is\nembroiled in arguments about circumcision. As is natural in letters\nresponding to specific situations, he's looking at the aspect of the\nLaw that is currently causing trouble: the Law as specifically Jewish\nceremonies. He certainly does not intend to abolish divine standards\nof conduct. On the other hand, when Jesus commends the Law, he seems\nto be talking the Law in its broadest implications for morals and\nhuman relationships, and deemphasizing those aspects that were later\nto give Paul so much trouble.\n\nIt's unfortunate that people use the same terms in different ways, but\nwe should be familiar with that from current conflicts. Look at the\nway terms like \"family values\" take on special meaning from the\ncurrent context. Imagine some poor historian of the future trying to\nfigure out why \"family values\" should be used as a code word for\nopposition to homosexuality in one specific period in the U.S. I\nthink Law had taken on a similar role in the arguments Paul was\ninvolved in. Paul was clearly not rejecting all of the Jewish values\nthat go along with the term \"Law\", any more than people who concerned\nabout the \"family values\" movement are really opposed to family\nvalues.", ": Arrogance is arrogance. It is not the result of religion, it is the result\n: of people knowing or firmly believing in an idea and one's desire to show\n: others of one's rightness. I assume that God decided to be judge for our\n: sake as much as his own, if we allow him who is kind and merciful be the \n: judge, we'll probably be better off than if others judged us or we judged \n: ourselves. \n\nI'm not sure I agree with this 100%. I agree that arrogance is not the result\nof religion and that God is a far better judge than we are. I also agree if\nyou mean to say that arrogance shows up in the form of trying to prove one's\nsuperior knowledge, rightness, or holiness over another person's beliefs.\n\nI need to be careful to understand what you mean here so that I do not fall\ninto the mistake of misrepresenting your views. If I fall down in this area\nI hope you will forgive me.\n\nArrogance is not the result of believing one is right or of believing that\none's God is greater than the god's of others or of believing that one's\nreligion is better than other religions. These are all naturally self-implied\nbeliefs.\n\nIt is self-contradictory to say that I believe my current beliefs to be wrong.\nWere I to find myself in error, my beliefs would naturally change and follow\nwhat I believe to be right. Therefore, I must always consider my beliefs\ncorrect. That's not arrogance. That's unavoidable behavior.\n\nIt is nonsense to say that I believe another person's god to be greater than\nmy God. Were his or her god greater, wouldn't I be obligated to change so\nthat their god would become my God? We are naturally obligated to worship\nthat God which we deem to be the greatest. Why should we feel obligated to\nworship a second best god for the sake of feeling humble?\n\nArrogance is not necessarily thinking onesself to be better looking or more\nintelligent or stronger or having more resources than another person. No\ndoubt many will have to chew on this one awhile. Were passive observation\nof one's superior points arrogance, then God would be most arrogant of all.\n\nHumility does not rest in slandering or belittling God's work of creation in\nour lives. People often go around trying to be humble saying to one another,\n\"I'm not very smart. I'm poor. I'm not good looking. I'm just a worm in\nthe ground. I'm such a weak person and although I don't want to sin, I\nreally cannot help it.\" Were this person truely humble, he would take a\ndifferent approach. \"God, thank you for making me the way you did. I know\nthat you never do anything second best. Yet with all that you have given me,\nI have been so unthankful. You've given me power to resist the devil. I\nhave not used it but have indulged myself in doing exactly what you have said\nnot to do. I have slandered your creation in my life and have credited myself\nwith humility for doing so. Lord, with all you've given me, I have been\ncompletely unfaithful and I do not deserve your forgiveness. And, yet Your\nlove for me is so boundless that you would give Yourself to die for me to\nsave me. As terribly evil as I am, I deserve to go straight to hell, yet it\npleases you somehow to rescue me from this terrible life I've led. Lord,\nplease forgive me and help me stay on the right track so that I can bring\nglory to Your Name instead of insult. Lord I'm so sorry for my wrongs. Please\nhelp me to change.\"\n\n: \n: I think people take exceptional offense to religious arrogance because\n: they don't want to be wrong. If I find someone arrogant, I typically\n: don't have anything to do with them.\n\nFor me, I've often found it hard to tell the difference. Often times, the\nmost humble christian has come across to me as arrogant while the most\nproud \"worm in the ground\" false humility type person has been found to be\nmost comfortable company.\n\nWhen I'm wrong and arrogant about my wrongness, I certainly don't feel like\nbeing confronted by my wrongness. Were someone to confront me verbally with\nmy wrongness, I'd be likely to snap at them and examine them head to toe for\nall their faults and charge them with hypocricy for what they said to me.\nAt the root, my desire would be to make them shut up so that I can go about\nliving my life arrogantly as I wish. However, were someone to confront me\nsilently by their example, earn my respect, and perhaps mention it to me in\nhumility in private, I'd feel broken down and challenged to seek God for help\nin changing from the error of my ways.\n\nThe hard part is getting to the point to where I can be humble before anyone\nregardless of their humility or pride--regardless of their hypocricy or\nsincerity--regardless of whether onlookers will frown down upon me or not.\nIt isn't easy to take this pain in love with thankfulness for the opportunity\nto improve in one's ability to serve God. It's easier to cast aside any hope\nof reaching true humility and merely hide behind slandering God's creation\nin our lives instead.\n\n: But we should examine ourselves [I hope I typed this back in right]\n: and why we react to certain situations with such emotions. For instance,\n: many of us feel \"justified\" to be insulted by an arrogant person. As if\n: we needed a reason to feel insulted. But after being insulted over and\n: over again by the words of others, you'd think we'd either toughen up\n: or decide not to be insulted, or ignore the insult. Just because you\n: can justify feelings of anger or insult or outrage, that doesn't make that\n: reaction the appropriate one. It is in this light of self-examination\n: that we can change our emotional reactions.\n: \n\nSometimes it helps when we can understand and feel the difference between\nwhat is a true statement of our character and what is a false and slanderous\nstatement of our character. The devil is the accuser of the bretheren. He\nwould love us to feel hopelessly guilty where we are innocent and feel arrogant\nand self-righteous where we are indeed wrong. The devil's aim is to get us\ninto as much misery as he can. Just think of the devil as a cruel and merci-\nless criminal who torments a parent by burning his or her children with\nhot irons. The way the devil gets under the Father's skin is by hurting\nthose that the Father loves so much.\n\n\n--\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\t\"I deplore the horrible crime of child murder...\n\t We want prevention, not merely punishment.\n\t We must reach the root of the evil...\n\t It is practiced by those whose inmost souls revolt\n\t from the dreadful deed...\n\t No mater what the motive, love of ease,\n\t\tor a desire to save from suffering the unborn innocent,\n\t\tthe woman is awfully guilty who commits the deed...\n\t but oh! thrice guilty is he who drove her\n\t\tto the desperation which impelled her to the crime.\"", "\nJeff Fenholt claims to have once been a roadie for Black Sabbath.\nHe was never ever a musician in the band. He was in St. Louis several\nmonths back. The poster I saw at the Christian bookstore I frequent\nreally turned me off. It was addressed to all \"Homosexuals, prostitutes,\ndrug addicts, alcoholics, and headbangers...\" or something like that.\n\nWell, if I showed up with my long hair and black leather jacket I\nwould have felt a little pre-judged. As a Orthodox Christian, and\na \"headbanger\" I was slightly insulted at being lumped together with\ndrug addicts and alcoholics. Oh yes, I suppose since I drink a good\nGerman beer now and then that makes me an alcoholic. NOT!\n\n", "\nHmm... For more recent lesson what about that little square in China?\n\nAnother lesson might be the one repeated every year in Tibet...\n\nAnd of course there's always El Salvador...\n\nAnd the beat goes on and on... :^(\n\nMESSAGES FROM GOD: GET OFF YOUR ASS! DON'T TRUST THE\nGOVERNMENT! AT ANY TIME! FOR ANY REASON! -THE SCREAMING MAN\n \nCONNECT THE GOD-DAMNED DOTS!!! Ministry, TV Song\n", "\nPlease, leave heaven out of it. For his own sake, I pray that Dan does\ntake it literally because that's how God intended it to be taken. Dan,\nyour view of many groups appears correct from my point of view.\nHowever, I have found a group which is truly meeting requirements laid\ndown by the Bible on what it means to be a disciple of Jesus. I have no\nclue where wwc is, but please mail me. I'd really like to get you in\ntouch with them.\n\n[insert deletion of ranting about other religions which obviously has\ngone off-center of Dan's original context]\n\nDan, I'm familiar with this one. You've got a point, though. There are\nsome who don't want to turn over everything and be a disciple, some have\nno clue about it because they've not been taught, some have done exactly\nthat and turned over everything to follow Jesus, some are blocked by\ndifficult doctrine taught by uncaring Pharisees and teachers of the law.\nHowever, Jesus pointed out what it takes to follow him and to be his\ndisciple in Luke 9:23-26 and Luke 14:25-33. My question is: why do\npeople ignore the command and treat it as optional? I certainly don't\nhave an answer to this.\n\n[insert deletion]\n\n\nMy parents had nothing to do with it. God had and has everything to do\nwith it. As for these attacking responses, I must say that I disagree\nwith your tone and what appears to be some very judgmental statements\n(possibly to the point of slander) when talking about people, not what\nthey do. Please, if you have a response, state it instead of flying off\nthe handle on some discourse which may have nothing truly to do with\nwhat is being discussed. I'm sure both Dan and I would have a much\nhappier time with your responses.", "It troubles me that there have been so many posts recently trying to support\nthe doctrine of Original Sin. This is primarily a Catholic doctrine, with no\nother purpose than to defend the idea of infant baptism. Even among, its\nsupporters, however, people will stop short of saying that unbaptised infants\nwill go to hell.\n\nIt's very easy for just about anyone to come up with a partial list of\nscripture to support any sort of wrong doctrine. However, if we have the\nheart to persevere in our beliefs to make sure that they are biblically\nbased, then we can come to an understanding of the truth. Let's now take a\nmore complete look at scripture.\n\nColossians 2:11-12 \"In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of\nthe sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by Christ, having been\nburied with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the\npower of God, who raised him from the dead.\"\n\nIn baptism, we are raised to a new life in Christ (Romans 6:4) through a\npersonal faith in the power of God. Our parent's faith cannot do this. Do\ninfants have faith? Let's look at what the Bible has to say about it.\n\nRomans 10:16-17 \"But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For\nIsaiah says, 'Lord, who has believed our message?' Consequently, faith\ncomes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word\nof Christ.\"\n\nSo then we receive God's gift of faith to us as we hear the message of the\ngospel. Faith is a possible response to hearing God's word preached. Kids\nare not yet spiritually, intellectually, or emotionally mature enough to\nrespond to God's word. Hence they cannot have faith and therefore cannot\nbe raised in baptism to a new life.\n\nEzekiel 18:20 \"The soul who sins will die. The son will not share the\nguilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The\nrighteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the\nwickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.\"\n\nIf you read all of Ezekiel 18, you will see that God doesn't hold us guilty\nfor anyone else's sins. So we can have no original guilt from Adam.\n\nEzekiel 18:31-32 \"Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committted,\nand get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, O house of Israel?\nFor I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord.\nRepent and live!\"\n\nThe way to please God is to repent and get a new heart and spirit. Kids\ncannot do this. Acts 2:38-39 says that when we repent and are baptized, we\nwill then receive a new spirit, the Holy Spirit. Then we shall live.\n\nNow then that we have a little more background as to why original sin is\nnot Biblical, let's look at some of the scriptures used to support it.\n\nRomans 5:12 \"Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and\ndeath through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all\nsinned--\"\n\nSin and death entered the world when the first man sinned. Death came to\neach man because each man sinned. Note that it's good to read through all\nof Romans 5:12-21. Some of the verses are easier to misunderstand than\nothers, but if we read them in context we will see that they are all\nsaying basically the same thing. Let's look at one such.\n\nRomans 5:19 \"For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many\nwere made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many\nwill be made righteous.\"\n\nThrough the disobedience of each individual, each was made a sinner. In\nthe same way, through the obedience of Jesus, each will be made righteous.\nWe must remember when reading through this passage that death came to each\nman only because each man sinned, not because of guilt from Adam.\nOtherwise the Bible would contradict itself. I encourage you to read\nthrough this whole passage on your own, looking at it from this point of\nview to see if it doesn't all fit together.\n\nPsalm 51:5 \"Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother\nconceived me.\"\n\nThis whole Psalm is a wonderful example of how we should humble ourselves\nbefore God in repentance for sinning. David himself was a man after God's\nown heart and wrote the Psalm after committing adultry with Bathsheba and\nmurdering her husband. All that David is saying here is that he can't\nremember a time when he wasn't sinful. He is humbling himself before God\nby confessing his sinfulness. His saying that he was sinful at birth is\na hyperbole. The Bible, being inspired by God, isn't limited to a literal\ninterpetation, but also uses figures of speech as did Jesus (John 16:25).\nFor another example of hyperbole, see Luke 14:26.\n\nNow then, even though people see that baptism requires faith and that\noriginal sin is not Biblical, they will still argue that infant baptism is\nnecessary because children sin by being selfish - not sharing toys with\nother children, by being mean - hitting others and fighting, etc.\n\nCertainly we have observed children doing wrong things, but my gut feeling\nis always that they don't know any better. Let's look to see if the Bible\nagrees with my gut feelings.\n\nIsaiah 7:14-15 \"Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The\nvirgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him\nImmanuel. He will eat curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the\nwrong and choose the right.\"\n\nNow just about any church leader will tell you that this is a prophecy\nabout Jesus. If they don't, then point them to Matthew 1:23 and find a new\nleader. Jesus certainly couldn't have had less knowledge than normal human\nbabies. Yet this passage says that he had to mature to a certain extent\nbefore he would know the difference between right and wrong. We see that\nhe did grow and become wiser in Luke 2:40 and 2:52. The implication is\nthat Jesus did wrong things as a child before he knew to choose right over\nwrong. Since we know that Jesus was perfect -- without sin, we have rather\nconclusive proof that babies cannot sin because they don't know to choose\nthe right instead of the wrong.\n\nJesus himself was baptized, albeit with John's baptism, not as an infant,\nbut as a thirty-year-old man (Luke 3:21-23) and started his ministry as\nsoon as he was baptized (Luke 3:23). Immediately afterwards, he was\ntempted by the devil (Luke 4:1-13; Matthew 4:1-11; Mark 1:12-13).\n\nThank you for your attention.\n\nModerator - this should finish up the subject for a while. Perhaps you\nwould like to make a FAQ out of this response so that you can repost it\nfrom time to time when the topic comes up. Feel free to rearrange the\ncontents if you would like to, but please send me a copy of the final FAQ.\n\nSincerely,\n\nAaron Cardenas\naaronc@athena.mit.edu", "\nDon't listen to this guy, he's just a crank. At first, this business\nabout being the \"one true god\" was tolerated by the rest of us,\nbut now it has gotten completely out of hand.\n\nBesides, it really isn't so bad when people stop believing in you.\nIt's much more relaxing when mortals aren't always begging you for favors.", "I find it interesting that cls never answered any of the questions posed. \nThen he goes on the make statements which make me shudder. He has\nestablished a two-tiered God. One set of rules for the Jews (his people)\nand another set for the saved Gentiles (his people). Why would God\ndiscriminate? Does the Jew who accepts Jesus now have to live under the\nGentile rules.\n\nGod has one set of rules for all his people. Paul was never against the\nlaw. In fact he says repeatedly that faith establishes rather that annuls\nthe law. Paul's point is germane to both Jews and Greeks. The Law can\nnever be used as an instrument of salvation. And please do not combine\nthe ceremonial and moral laws in one.\n\nIn Matt 5:14-19 Christ plainly says what He came to do and you say He was\nonly saying that for the Jews's benefit. Your Christ must be a\npolitician, speaking from both sides of His mouth. As Paul said, \"I have\nnot so learned Christ.\" Forget all the theology, just do what Jesus says.\n Your excuses will not hold up in a court of law on earth, far less in\nGod's judgement hall.", "\n\n\n\n\nThis is the problem. This is not hell, this is permanent death. It is\nindeed what atheists (generally) expect and it is neither fair nor\nunfair, it just is. You might as well argue about whether being made\nmostly of carbon and water is \"fair\".\n\nHowever, the atheists who claim that Hell is unfair are talking about\nthe fire and brimstone place of endless suffering, which necessarily\nincludes eternal existance (life, I dunno, but some sort of continuation);\nnot at all the same thing.\n\nGranted, you clearly feel that hell=death, but this is not a univeral\nsentiment as near as I can tell.\n\nIf *your* idea of God \"condemns\" heathens to ordinary death, I have no\nproblem with that. I do have a problem with the gods that hide from humans\nand torture the unbelievers eternally for not guessing right.\n\n[deletia- Hell, and Literalness.]\n\n---\n\t\t\t- Dan Johnson\nAnd God said \"Jeeze, this is dull\"... and it *WAS* dull. Genesis 0:0", "\nI agree. God makes the husband the head of the house. But he surely\ncan't do it alone. He needs the help of his beloved wife whom the\nLord gave him.\n\nAt least that's how it is in my house. I thank God for the beautiful\nwoman He has brought into my life. I couldn't lead without the help\nof my wonderful wife.\n\n", "True.\n\nAlso read 2 Peter 3:16\n\nPeter warns that the scriptures are often hard to understand by those who\nare not learned on the subject.", "\nNot by any standard of history I've seen. Care to back this up, sans the\nlies apologists are so fond of?\n\n\nNot really. Most of the prophesies aren't even prophesies. They're prayers\nand comments taken from the Torah quite out of context. Seems Xians started\nlying right from the beginning.\n\n\nMy we're an arrogant ass, aren't we?\n\n\nYou're wrong to think we haven't. The trust was in something that doesn't\nexist.\n\n\nI'm still willing to die for what I believe and don't believe. So were the\nloonies in Waco. So what? \n\nBesides, the point's not to die for what one believes in. The point's to\nmake that other sorry son-of-a-bitch to die for what *he* believes in! :)\n\nDoesn't anyone else here get tired of these cretins' tirades?\n\nPeter the Damed, and damned proud of it!", "My first and most important point is that regardless of how your recovery\nhappened, I'm glad it did!\n\nOn 10-May-93 in Re: How I got saved... \n\nNOW! The point that I'll try to make is that coincidences like this occur\nwith a very high frequency. How many of us have been thinking of someone\nand had that person call? Much of the whole psychic phenomenon is easily\nexplicable by this - one forgets the misses. Consider your astrological\nforcast in the newspaper. How many times have you said \"That's me\" vs\n\"That's not me\"? You'll remember the hits, but the misses will be much more\nfrequent.\n\nOn 10-May-93 in Re: How I got saved... \n\nAnd what if, instead if being healed, your affliction got much worse and\nyou ended up paralyzed? Would you have attributed that to god as well?\nOr would that have been the work of satan? If you believe that would have\nbeen so, why ONLY good from god, and ONLY evil from satan? Couldn't the\nagony have come from god? Think about what he did to poor Job!\n\n\n\nDavid Hunt - Graduate Slave | My mind is my own. | Towards both a\nMechanical Engineering | So are my ideas & opinions. | Palestinian and\nCarnegie Mellon University | <<>> | Jewish homeland!\n====T=H=E=R=E===I=S===N=O===G=O=D=========T=H=E=R=E===I=S===N=O===G=O=D=====\nEmail: bluelobster+@cmu.edu Working towards my \"Piled Higher and Deeper\"", "\nI see some irony here. Jesus was willing to go through torture to free\nyou from the definite promise of hell (based on Adam/Eve's fall from grace)\nbut rather than allow him to stand in your place, you would give up\nyour redemption to stand with those who do not accept his grace.\nGod would rather have none in hell, which seems to put the burden of \nchoice on us. Of course, this is all fictional anyway since you reject him\nalso.\n\nMy former sociology professor once told us at the beginning\nof our term, \"you all start out with an A...what you do with that during\nthe course of this term is up to you\". In the beginning...Adam and Eve\nwere given an A. \n\n", "\n#Rick Anderson replied to my letter with...\n#\n#ra> In article ,\n#ra>\n\n(...)\n\n# Just briefly, on something that you mentioned in passing. You refer to\n# differing interpretations of \"create,\" and say that many Christians may\n# not agree. So what? That is really irrelevant. We do not base our faith\n# on how many people think one way or another, do we? The bottom line is\n# truth, regardless of popularity of opinions.\n\nIt may be \"irrelevant\" to you and *your* personal beliefs (or should I say\n\"bias\"?), but it is relevant to me and many others. You're right, \"the\nbottom line IS truth,\" independant from you or anyone else. Since you\nproclaim \"truths\" as a self-proclaimed appointee, may I ask you by what\nauthority you do this? Because \"it says so in the Bible?\" --Does the\nBible \"say so,\" or is it YOU, or someone else, who interprets whether a\nscripture or doctrine conforms to your particular liking or \"disapproval\"?\n\nExcuse moi, but your line of \"truths\" haven't moved me one bit to persuade\nme that my beliefs are erroneous. Of all the \"preachers\" of \"truth\" on\nthis net, you have struck me as a self-righteous member of the wrecking\ncrew, with no positive message to me or other latter-day saints whatsoever.\nBTW, this entire discussion reminds me a lot of the things said by Jesus\nto the pharisees: \"ye hypocrite(s) . . . ye preach about me with your lips,\nbut your hearts are far removed from me...\"\n\n# Also, I find it rather strange that in trying to persuade that created\n# and eternally existent are equivalent, you say \"granted the Mormon\n# belief...\" You can't grant your conclusion and then expect the point to\n# have been addressed. In order to reply to the issue, you have to address\n# and answer the point that was raised, and not just jump to the\n# conclusion that you grant.\n\nSophistry. Look who's talking: \"jumping to conclusions?\" You wouldn't do\nthat yourself, right? All YOU address is your own convictions, regardless\nwhether we come up with any Biblical scriptures which supports our points\nof view, because you reject such interpretations without any consideration\nwhatsoever.\n\n#\n# The Bible states that Lucifer was created. The Bible states that Jesus\n# is the creator of all. The contradiction that we have is that the LDS\n# belief is that Jesus and Lucifer were the same.\n\nA beautiful example of disinformation and a deliberate misrepresentation\nof lds doctrine. The former KGB would have loved to employ you.\nJesus and lucifer are not \"the same,\" silly, and you know it.\n\n(...)\n\n# The Mormon belief is that all are children of God. Literally. There is\n# nothing symbolic about it. This however, contradicts what the Bible\n# says. The Bible teaches that not everyone is a child of God:\n\nCorrection: it may contradict would YOU think the Bible says. The Bible\nindeed does teach that not all are children of God in the sense that they\n\"belong to\" or follow God in His footsteps. Satan and his followers have\nrebelled against God, and are not \"children (=followers/redeemed) of God,\"\nbut it doesn't mean that they were not once created by God, but chose to\nseparate themselves from those who chose to follow God and His plan of\nsalvation.\n\n#\n# The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the\n# kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked \"one\";\n# (Matthew 13:38)\n\nkingdom are those who have remained valiant in their testimony of Jesus\n(and have shown \"works of repentance, etc.), and the children of the\nwicked one are those who rebelled against God and the lamb. The issue\nof satan's spirit-offspring (and those who followed him) has not been\naddressed in this and other verses you copied from your Bible. You\npurposefully obscured the subject by swamping your \"right\" with non-\nrelated scriptures.\n\n(...lots of nice scriptures deleted (NOT Robert W. copyrighted) though...)\n\n#ra> > We are told that, \"And this is life eternal, that they might know\n#ra> > thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.\"\n#ra> > (John 17:3). Life eternal is to know the only true God. Yet the\n#ra> > doctrines of the LDS that I have mentioned portray a vastly\n#ra> > different Jesus, a Jesus that cannot be reconciled with the Jesus of\n#ra> > the Bible. They are so far removed from each other that to proclaim\n\nCorrection: \"my\" Jesus is indeed different than your Jesus, and CAN be\nreconciled with the Jesus in the Bible. --Not your interpretation of Him,\nI concur, but I honestly couldn't care less.\n\n#ra> > one as being true denies the other from being true. According to the\n#ra> > Bible, eternal life is dependent on knowing the only true God, and\n#ra> > not the construct of imagination.\n\nIn this single posting of yours, I've seen more \"constructs of imagination\"\nthan in all of the pro-lds mails combined I have read so far in this news\ngroup. First get your lds-facts straight before you dare preaching to us\nabout \"the only true God,\" whom you interpret according to your own likes\nand dislikes, but whose image I cannot reconcile with what I know about\nHim myself. I guess your grandiose self-image does not allow for other\nfaiths, believing in the divinity of Jesus Christ, but in a different\nway or fashion than your own. Not that it really matters, the mission\nand progress of the lds church will go on, boldly and nobly, and no mob\nor opponent can stop the work from progressing, until it has visited\nevery continent, swept every clime, and sounded in every ear.\n\n# This is really a red herring. It doesn't address any issue raised, but\n# rather, it seeks to obfuscate. The fact that some groups try to read\n# something into the Bible, doesn't change what the Bible teaches.\n\nSigh. \"What the Bible teaches\"? Or: \"what the bible teaches according to\nRobert Weiss and co.?\" I respect the former, I reject the latter without\nthe remotest feeling that I have rejected Jesus. On the contrary. And by\nthe way, I do respect your interpretations of the Bible, I even grant you\nbeing a Christian (following your own image of Him), as much as I am a\nChristian (following my own image of Him in my heart).\n\n(...)\n\n# Most of the other replies have instead hop-scotched to the issue of\n# Bruce McConkie and whether his views were 'official doctrine.' I don't\n# think that it matters if McConkie's views were canon. That is not the\n# issue. Were McConkie's writings indicative of Mormon belief on this\n# subject is the real issue. The indication from Rick is that they may\n# certainly be.\n\nThe issue is, of course, that you love to use anything to either mis-\nrepresent or ridicule the lds church. The issue of \"official doctrine\"\nis obviously very important. McConkie's views have been controversial\n(e.g. \"The Seven Deadly Heresies\" has made me a heretic! ;-) at best,\nor erroneous at worst (\"blacks not to receive the priesthood in this\ndispensation\"). I respect him as someone who has made his valuable\ncontribution to the church, but I personally do NOT rely on his personal\ninterpretations (his book \"Mormon Doctrine\" is oftentimes referred to\nas \"McConkie's Bible\" in mormon circles) on mormon doctrine. I rather\nlook to official (doctrinal) sources, and... to Hugh Nibley's books!\n(The last comment is an lds-insider reference.) Summarizing: McConkie\nwas a wise man who contributed undoubtedly far more to the kingdom of\nGod than I have, but whose views are by no means dogma or accepted\ndoctrine, some of it clearly belongs to personal interpretation and\nspeculation. But having said this, I find McConkie (even in his most\nbiased and speculative moments) far more thought-provoking than the\ntrash coming from your proverbial pen. I'm somewhat appalled that I have\nallowed myself to sink as low as you in this posting...\n\n=============================\nRobert Weiss\npsyrobtw@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu\n", "\nChristian: washed in the blood of the lamb.\nMithraist: washed in the blood of the bull.\n\nIf anyone in .netland is in the process of devising a new religion,\ndo not use the lamb or the bull, because they have already been\nreserved. Please choose another animal, preferably one not\non the Endangered Species List. ", "\nAhhh go back to alt.autotheism where you belong!", "\nIn soc.religion.christian you write:\n\n\nNote that the above type of prediction does not require a God to be made.\nAn expert in a field can also predict things based on experience.\nBeware of predictions like \"The volcano will erupt tomorrow!\" Don't\nfollow the preacher because of such statements that come true.\n\nNote also, that if I'm describing a (hypothetical) death of a friend as\na result of his passion for fast motorcycles, I might say \"his mother\npredicted he would die.\" Of course, his father may have said \"he 'll\nmake good money because of his hobby\" and depending upon the final\noutcome of the situation I end up mentioning the one that's\nrelevant. A reader down the road will get the impression that the\nmother or father had predicted accurately the event, when it was just\na casual statement.\n\nFinally, on prophesies, note that there are many prophesies that can be\nfulfilled my people, often to fool believers. If I say, \"Beware, the\nterminal will unexpectedly be shut off!\" and then after 2 secs I turn\nit off (or have someone come out from another room and do it) there was\nno prediction. A similar situation arises with the establishment of\nthe Jewish state. While pressing for it, prominent Jews argued that it\nwas predicted that they'd have a state again, and that the time has\ncome. (I've read this somewhere, but can't think of the source - if\nyou can, please let me know.) In this case, the establishment of the\nstate does not really fulfill the prophesy since the prophesy was used\nin order to push for the establishment of the state.\n\nDeciding what was truely a fulfillment of prophesy is very tricky.\n\n-leo\n", "\n\n\nOf course not. I would think that would be great _fun_, not having ever\nfelt the joy and peace the Christians speak of with a longing gaze.\nThis is not what I got when I believed - I just tried to hide my fear\nof getting punished for something I never was sure of. The Bible is\nhopelessly confusing for someone who wants to know for sure. God did\nnot answer. In the end, I found I had been following a mass delusion,\na lie. I can't believe in a being who refuses to give a slightest hint\nof her existence.\n\n\nI suggest they should honestly reconsider the reasons why they believe\nand analyse their position. In fact, it is amusing to note in this\ncontext that many fundamentalist publications tell us exactly the\nopposite - one should not examine one's belief critically.\n\nI'll tell you something I left out of my 'testimony' I posted to this\ngroup two months ago. A day after I finally found out my faith is over,\nI decided to try just one more time. The same cycle of emotional\nresponses fired once again, but this time the delusion lasted only\na couple of hours. I told my friend in a phone that it really works,\nthank god, just to think about it again when I hung up. I had to admit\nthat I had lied, and fallen prey to the same illusion.\n\n\nI used to believe what I read in books when I was younger, or what\nother people told me, but I grew more and more skeptical the more I\nread. I learned what it means to use _reason_.\n\nAs a student of chemistry, I had to perform a qualitative analysis\nof a mixture of two organic compounds in the lab. I _hated_ experiments\nlike this - they are old-fashioned and increase the student's workload\nconsiderably. Besides, I had to do it twice, since I failed in my first\nattempt. However, I think I'll never forget the lesson: \n\nNo matter how strongly you believe the structure of the unknown is X,\nit may still be Y. It is _very_ tempting to jump into conclusions, take\na leap of faith, assure oneself, ignore the data which is inconsistent. \nBut it can still be wrong. \n\nI found out that I was, after all, using exactly the same mechanism\nto believe in god - mental self-assurance, suspension of fear, \nfiltering of information. In other words, it was only me, no god\nplaying any part. \n\n\nOh? And I had better believe this? Dan, many UFO stories are much better\ndocumented than the resurrection of Jesus. The resurrection is documented\nquite haphazardly in the Bible - it seems the authors did not pay too\nmuch attention to which wild rumour to leave out. Besides, the ends of\nthe gospels probably contain later additions and insertions; for instance,\nthe end of Mark (16:9-20) is missing from many early texts, says my Bible.\n\nJesus may have lived and died, but he was probably misunderstood.\n\n\nThis is easy. I believe that the world exists independent of my mind,\nand that logic and reason can be used to interpret and analyse what I\nobserve. Nothing else need to be taken on faith, I will go by the\nevidence. \n\nIt makes no difference whether I believe George Washington existed or not.\nI assume that he did, considering the vast amount of evidence presented.\n\n\nA liar, how do you know what my attitude was? Try reading your Bible\nagain. \n\nI was willing to die for my faith. Those who do are usually remembered\nas heroes, at least among those who believe. Dan, do you think I'm\nlying when I say I believed firmly for 15 years? It seems it is \nvery difficult to admit that someone who has really believed does not\ndo so anymore. But I can't go on lying to myself.\n\nBlind trust is dangerous, and I was just another blind led by the blind.\nBut if god really wants me, she'll know what to do. I'm willing. I just\ndon't know whether she exists - looking at the available evidence,\nit looks like she doesn't. \n\nPetri", "\n\n\nCorrection: _hard_ atheism is a faith.\n\n\n\nGet a grip, man. The Stalin example was brought up not as an\nindictment of atheism, but merely as another example of how people will\nkill others under any name that's fit for the occasion.\n\n\n\nSo hard atheism has nothing to prove? Then how does it justify that\nGod does not exist? I know, there's the FAQ, etc. But guess what -- if\nthose justifications were so compelling why aren't people flocking to\n_hard_ atheism? They're not, and they won't. I for one will discourage\npeople from hard atheism by pointing out those very sources as reliable\nstatements on hard atheism.\n\nSecond, what makes you think I'm defending any given religion? I'm merely\nrecognizing hard atheism for what it is, a faith.\n\nAnd yes, by \"we\" I am referring to every reader of the post. Where is the\nevidence that the poster stated that he relied upon?\n\n ^^^^\n\nBzzt! By virtue of your innocent little pronoun, \"they\", you've just issued\na blanket statement. At least I will apologize by qualifying my original\nstatement with \"hard atheist\" in place of atheist. Would you call John the\nBaptist arrogant, who boasted of one greater than he? That's what many\nChristians do today. How is that _in itself_ arrogant?\nWith your sophisticated put-down of \"they\", the theists, _your_ serious\nmisinformation shines through.\n\n--\nBake Timmons, III", ": It is a dead and useless faith which has no action behind it. Actions\n: prove our faith and show the genuineness of it.\n\nA good example of this is Abraham (referred to in the James passage). Hebrews\nsays that Abraham was justified by faith -- but his faith was demonstrated\nthrough his works (i.e., he obeyed what God told him to do).\n\nReading Abraham's ``biography'' in Genesis is very instructive. He was a man\nbeset by *lack* of faith a lot of the time (e.g. lying about Sarah being his\nwife on 2 occasions; trying to fulfil God's promise on God's behalf by\ncopulating with Hagar). . . yet it seems that God didn't evaluate him on the\nbasis of individual incidents. Abraham is listed as one of the ``heroes of \nfaith'' in Hebrews 11. i.e., when it really came to the crunch, God declared\nAbraham as a man of faith. He believed God's promises.\n\nThis gives us confidence. Although real faith demonstrates itself through\nworks, God is not going to judge us according to our success/failure in\nperforming works.\n\n``Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy\nhe saved us, through the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy\nSpirit.'' (Titus 3.5)\n\nAmazing Grace! Hallelujah!", "Someone posted a list of x number of alleged Bible contradictions. As Joslin\nsaid, most people do value quantity over quality. Dave Butler posted some good\nquality alleged contradictions that are taking a long time to properly exegete.\n\nIf you want a good list (quantity) - _When Critics Ask, A Popular Handbook On\nBible Difficulties_ by Dr. Norman Geisler deals with over 800 alleged contradictions.\n\nFrank", "There was a recent discussion of Dungeons and Dragons and other role\nplaying games. Since there is a lot of crossover between gamers and\nscience fiction and fantasy fans, I will mention that I am the editor\nand publisher of RADIO FREE THULCANRA, a Christian-oriented science\nfiction fanzine. It is not a Christian magazine with a special\ninterest in science fiction. It is a science fiction fanzine with a\nspecial interest in Christianity. Gaming is not a major topic of\ndiscussion but it has come up in some letters. (No, there are no\narguments about whether D&D is satanic. People who think it is are\nnot likely to be reading RFT.) Anyway, I am now working on the April\nissue. I will send a sample copy to any reader of\nsoc.religion.christian who requests it. It is printed on paper, so\nrequests should include a snail-mail address.\n-------\nMarty Helgesen\nBitnet: mnhcc@cunyvm Internet: mnhcc@cunyvm.cuny.edu", "\n\nThere is another way to view this. The True Celebration is Easter,\nthe Resurrection of Our Lord. This has been true from the foundation\nof the world. Pagan practices are then either:\n\n1. foreshadowings of the True Celebration of the Resurrection, \n in which dim light was shone forth so that people would\n recognize the full truth when it was manifested, OR\n\n2. satanic counterfeits intended to deceive us so that we would not\n recognize the truth when it was manifested.\n\nI don't believe the second argument, because I believe in the power\nof the Resurrection, the fulfillment of the Incarnation, and our hope.\nEarlier or parallel ideas in other religions clearly are dim images of\nthe truth of the Resurrection. As Paul states, we see through a glass\ndarkly. So do others. It serves no purpose arguing about who has\nthe darker or lighter glass. The foreshadowings are not perfect.\nSo what? Our understnding of God is today imperfect, for we are not\nyet perfected. Theosis is not a gift such that WHAM, we're perfect.\n\nLarry Overacker (llo@shell.com)\n-- ", "From: db7n+@andrew.cmu.edu (D. Andrew Byler)\n\n1] An english translation of this can be found in:\n \"The Acts of the Apostles, translated from the Codex Bezae, with an\n introduction on its Lucan Origin and Importance\", J. M. Wilson\n (London, 1923).\n\n2] Another work that might be useful is:\n \"The Acts of the Apostles, a Critical Edition with Introduction and\n Notes on Selected Passages\", Albert C. Clark (Oxford, 1933;\n reprinted 1970).\n\n(This is an edition of text of Acts that makes the assumption that the\ntext in Codex Bezae is the more authentic. I don't know if it\nactually contains an english translation or not.)\n\n3] Another useful that discusses many of the variants in detail is:\n \"The Theological Tendency of the Codex Bezae Cantabrigiensis in\n Acts\", Eldon J Epp (Cambridge, 1966).\n\n4] The most recent reference I found was an edition in French from the\nearly '80s. (I can supply the reference if anyone's interested.)\n\n5] Now, many of the works are going to be difficult to find. So if\nyou're interested in examining the differences in the long recension\nan excellent (and easily obtainable) discussion can be found in:\n \"A Textual Commentary on the Greek NT\", Bruce Metzger (United Bible\n Society, 1971).\n\nMetzger's book serves as a companion volume to the UBS 3rd edition of\nthe Greek NT. It contains a discussion on the reasoning that went\nbehind the decisions on each of the 1440 variant readings included in\nthe UBS3. Furthermore, notes on an addition 600 readings are\nincluded in aTCotGNT (the majority of these occur in Acts).\n\n \"[An attempt was made] to set before the reader a more or less full\n report (with an English translation) of the several additions and\n other modifications that are attested by Western witnesses ...\n Since many of these have no corresponding apparatus in the\n text-volume, care was taken to supply an adequate conspectus of the\n evidence that supports the divergent readings.\" (p 272).\n\n\n6] Most of the copies of the text of Acts that we have (including the\nones in Vaticanus and Siniaticus) adher pretty closely to the shorter\n(or Alexandrian) version. The longer version to which you refer is\nusually called the \"Western\" version and its main witness is the Codex\nBezae (althought there are a few other rather fragmentary sources).\n\n7] As far as size, the difference is that in Clark's edition\n(mentioned above) the book of Acts contains 19,983 words whereas the\ntext edited by Westcott and Hort (a typical Alexandrian text) contains\n18,401 words; i.e. a difference of about 8-1/2%.\n\n8] To answer the obvious questions, no, there are no major revelations\nin the longer text nor major omissions in the shorter text. The main\ndifference seems to \"expansion\" of detail in the Western text (or, if\nyou prefer \"contractions\" in the Alexandrian). The Western text seems\nto be given to more detail. There are some interesting specific\ncases, but this probably not the place to go into it in detail.\n\n9] The discussion over the years as to which of these versions is the\nmore authentic has been hot and heavy. If there is anything\napproaching a modern consensus it is (i) that neither text represents\npurely the \"authentic\" version, (ii) each variant reading has to be\nexamined on its own merits however, (iii) the variant in the\nAlexandrian text is the \"better\" more often than not.", "\nHowever, to underestimate the power of religion creating historical\nevents is also a big misunderstanding. For instance, would the\n30-year-old war have ever started if there were no fractions\nbetween the Protestants and the Vatican?\n\nCheers,\nKent", "Can a theist be truly objective? Can he be impartial\n when questioning the truth of his scriptures, or\n will he assume the superstition of his parents\n when questioning? \n\nI've often found it to be the case that the theist\n will stick to some kind of superstition when\n wondering about God and his scriptures. I've\n seen it in the Christian, the Jew, the Muslim,\n and the other theists alike. All assume that\n their mothers and fathers were right in the\n aspect that a god exists, and with that belief\n search for their god.\n \nOccasionally, the theist may switch religions or\n aspects of the same religion, but overall the\n majority keep to the belief that some \"Creator\"\n was behind the universe's existence. I've\n known Muslims who were once Christians and vice\n versa, I've known Christians who were once\n Jewish and vice versa, and I've even known\n Christians who become Hindu. Yet, throughout\n their transition from one faith to another,\n they've kept this belief in some form of higher\n \"being.\" Why?\n \nIt usually all has to do with how the child is\n brought up. From the time he is born, the\n theist is brought up with the notion of the\n \"truth\" of some kind of scripture-- the Bible,\n the Torah, the Qur'an, & etc. He is told\n of this wondrous God who wrote (or inspired)\n the scripture, of the prophets talked about in\n the scripture, of the miracles performed, & etc.\n He is also told that to question this (as\n children are apt to do) is a sin, a crime\n against God, and to lose belief in the scrip-\n ture's truth is to damn one's soul to Hell.\n Thus, by the time he is able to read the\n scripture for himself, the belief in its \"truth\"\n is so ingrained in his mind it all seems a\n matter of course.\n \nBut it doesn't stop there. Once the child is able\n to read for himself, there is an endeavor to\n inculcate the child the \"right\" readings of\n scripture, to concentrate more on the pleasant\n readings, to gloss over the worse ones, and to\n explain away the unexplainable with \"mystery.\"\n Circular arguments, \"self-evdent\" facts and\n \"truths,\" unreasoning belief, and fear of\n hell is the meat of religion the child must eat\n of every day. To doubt, of course, means wrath\n of some sort, and the child must learn to put\n away his brain when the matter concerns God.\n All of this has some considerable effect on the\n child, so that when he becomes an adult, the \n superstitions he's been taught are nearly\n impossible to remove.\n \nAll of this leads me to ask whether the theist can\n truly be objective when questioning God, Hell,\n Heaven, the angels, souls, and all of the rest.\n Can he, for a moment, put aside this notion that\n God *does* exist and look at everything from\n a unbiased point of view? Obviously, most\n theists can somewhat, especially when presented\n with \"mythical gods\" (Homeric, Roman, Egyptian,\n & etc.). But can they put aside the assumption\n of God's existence and question it impartially?\n \nStephen\n\n _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ * Atheist\n _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ * Libertarian\n _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ * Pro-individuality\n _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ * Pro-responsibility\n_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Jr. * and all that jazz...\n\n\n", "Deuteronmy 20:13\nAnd when the Lord thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite\nevery male thereof with the edge of the sword\n\nJoshua 6:21\nAnd they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, bith man and women,\nyoung and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.", "\nI'd like to field this one, if I may. Although I am a believer in and follower\nof Christ, my experiences with religion haven't been all that positive. In\nfact, there was one point in my life when, for about three days, I simply\n_couldn't_ believe in the existence of God. Anyway, when I look back upon the\ntroubles I've had, they seem to fall into two categories -- impulses to\nunbelief that resulted from logical contradictions, and impulses to unbelief\nthat resulted from frustration with God.\n\nThe first category doesn't occur to me much anymore, as I have worked through\nmost of the arguments for the non-existence of God. But way back when, these\nwould cause me some problems, and I would have to struggle with my faith to\ncontinue to believe. I can see where others less stubborn than I (and I do\nmean stubborn. Stubborness has often been the only thing standing between\nme an atheism from time to time) would fail.\n\nThe second category arises out of some long-term personal difficulties and\nthe struggle to live my life as God would have me live it WITHOUT living my \nlife as others would tell me how God would have me live it. A good example of\nthis is my struggle with the more radical Christians I meet. I am not, nor\nhave I ever been, \"on fire for Chirst,\" and I don't think I ever want to be.\nNevertheless, I am not \"lukewarm\" about my faith, so I don't really\nfit in with the mainstream either. Quite naturally, I feel a lot of anxiety\nabout my dislocation within Christian society, and it can lead to a lot of\ninternal tension, when I want to do what I _know_ is right,\nbut when another part of me believes that what I want to do is wrong because\nall the other Christians think so to. Quite naturally, this tension has a\ndestructive effect on my relationship with God, and during all of this internal\nstrife, there's atheism sitting there like the promised land -- no rules, no\nresponsibilities, no need to live up to anyone's expectations but my own.\nComplete freedom. Of course, it's all an illusion, but nevertheless, it's a\nvery appealing illusion, especially when the so-called \"people of God\" are\nbehaving like total twits. I can easily understand why someone would go\nthat route, and would be hostile to ever coming back.\n\nIMHO, many of the former-Christians-turned-atheists-who-are-now-actively-\nhostile-to-Christianity are so because their experience with Christ and God\nwasn't a very peaceful one, but one of mind-control and \"shut-up-and-do-what-\nyou're-told-because-we-know-what's-best-for-you-because-it's-God's-will-and-\nyou're-to-young-to-know-what-God's-will-is-yet\" courtesy of some of Christ's\nmore overzealous followers. \n\nA final reason why people become atheists is because Christians do not have a\nvery good reputation right now. One of the things that attracted people to\nChristianity in the ancient days was the love that Christians obviously had\nfor one another and the world around them. Unlike the rest of the world,\nChristian communities actively cared for their poor, and the Christian rich\ndid not trod on the backs of their poorer brothers, but bent down to help\nthem. Christians were known for living exemplary lives, even if they were\nthought to be traitors to the state because they wouldn't sacrifice to the\nemporer. Nowadays, courtesy of the media and some Christian leaders who lost\nChrist on their way to power, people see Christians as sexually-repressed\nhippocritical busibodies who want to remake society into a facist version of \ntheir own moral view.\n\nThere are a lot more reasons why people become atheists, but I don't have time\nto go into them right now.\n\n", "I would like to see Christians devote a bit less effort to _bashing_\npaganism and more to figuring out how to present the Gospel to pagans.\n\nChrist is the answer; the pagans have a lot of the right questions.\nUnlike materialists, who deny the need for any spirituality.\n\n", "Hello src readers,\n\nAgain the misconception that Copts among other Oriental Orthodox\nChurches believe in Monophysitism pops up again. We had a discussion\nabout it a while ago. \n\n\nThen OFM comments :\n\n\nWith my appreciation to the moderator, I believe that further elaboration\nis needed. This is an excerpt from an article featured in the first issue\nof the Copt-Net Newsletter :\n\nUnder the authority of the Eastern Roman Empire of Constantinople (as opposed\nto the western empire of Rome), the Patriarchs and Popes of Alexandria played\nleading roles in Christian theology. They were invited everywhere to speak\nabout the Christian faith. St. Cyril, Pope of Alexandria, was the head of the\nEcumenical Council which was held in Ephesus in the year 430 A.D. It was said\nthat the bishops of the Church of Alexandria did nothing but spend all their\ntime in meetings. This leading role, however, did not fare well when politics\nstarted to intermingle with Church affairs. It all started when the Emperor\nMarcianus interfered with matters of faith in the Church. The response of St.\nDioscorus, the Pope of Alexandria who was later exiled, to this interference\nwas clear: \"You have nothing to do with the Church.\" These political motives\nbecame even more apparent in Chalcedon in 451, when the Coptic Church was\nunfairly accused of following the teachings of Eutyches, who believed in\nmonophysitism. This doctrine maintains that the Lord Jesus Christ has only\none nature, the divine, not two natures, the human as well as the divine.\n\nThe Coptic Church has never believed in monophysitism the way it was\nportrayed in the Council of Chalcedon! In that Council, monophysitism meant\nbelieving in one nature. Copts believe that the Lord is perfect in His\ndivinity, and He is perfect in His humanity, but His divinity and His\nhumanity were united in one nature called \"the nature of the incarnate word\",\nwhich was reiterated by St. Cyril of Alexandria. Copts, thus, believe in two\nnatures \"human\" and \"divine\" that are united in one \"without mingling,\nwithout confusion, and without alteration\" (from the declaration of faith at\nthe end of the Coptic divine liturgy). These two natures \"did not separate\nfor a moment or the twinkling of an eye\" (also from the declaration of faith\nat the end of the Coptic divine liturgy).\n\nThe Coptic Church was misunderstood in the 5th century at the Council of\nChalcedon. Perhaps the Council understood the Church correctly, but they\nwanted to exile the Church, to isolate it and to abolish the Egyptian,\nindependent Pope. Despite all of this, the Coptic Church has remained very\nstrict and steadfast in its faith. Whether it was a conspiracy from the\nWestern Churches to exile the Coptic Church as a punishment for its refusal\nto be politically influenced, or whether Pope Dioscurus didn't quite go the\nextra mile to make the point that Copts are not monophysite, the Coptic\nChurch has always felt a mandate to reconcile \"semantic\" differences between\nall Christian Churches. This is aptly expressed by the current 117th\nsuccessor of St. Mark, Pope Shenouda III: \"To the Coptic Church, faith is\nmore important than anything, and others must know that semantics and\nterminology are of little importance to us.\" Throughout this century, the\nCoptic Church has played an important role in the ecumenical movement. The\nCoptic Church is one of the founders of the World Council of Churches. It has\nremained a member of that council since 1948 A.D. The Coptic Church is a\nmember of the all African Council of Churches (AACC) and the Middle East\nCouncil of Churches (MECC). The Church plays an important role in the\nChristian movement by conducting dialogues aiming at resolving the\ntheological differences with the Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Presbyterian, and\nEvangelical Churches.\n\n[...]\n\nAs a final note, the Oriental Orthodox and Eastren Orthodox did sign\na common statement of Christology, in which the heresey of Monophysitism\nwas condemned. So the Coptic Orthodox Church does not believe in\nMonophysitism.\n\nPeace,\n\nNabil\n\n .-------------------------------------------------------------.\n / Nabil Ayoub ____/ __ / ____/ /\n / Engine Research Center / / / / /\n / Dept. of Mechanical Engineering ___/ __ / / /\n / University of Wisconsin-Madison / / | / /\n / Email:ayoub@erctitan.me.wisc.edu _____/ __/ _| _____/ /\n '-------------------------------------------------------------'\n\n[As I mentioned in a brief apology, the comment quoted above from me\nis confused. I appear to say that Nestorius was monophysite. As\nAndrew Byler correctly stated it, the Nestorians and monophysites were\nactually opposite parties. The point I was making, which Nabil\nexplains in some detail, is that some groups that have been considered\nheretical probably aren't.\n\nChalcedon was a compromise between two groups, the Alexandrians and\nAntiochenes. It adopted language that was intended to be acceptable\nto moderates in both camps, while ruling out the extremes. I agree\nthat there were extremes that were heretical. However in the course\nof the complex politics of the time, it appears that some people got\nrejected who didn't intend heresy, but simply used language that was\nnot understood or even was mispresented. And some seem not to have\njointed in the compromise for reasons other than doctrine. There are\ngroups descended from both of the supposedly heretical camps. This\nposting discussed the descendants of the Alexandrians. There are also\na remaining Nestorians. Like some of the current so-called\nmonophysites, there is reason to believe that the current so-called\nNestorians are not heretical either. They sheltered Nestorius from\nwhat they saw as unfair treatment, but claim they did not adopt his\nheresies, and in fact seem to follow more moderate representatives of\nthe Antiochene tradition.", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\nI am not Mathew (Mantis) but any (successful) first year logic student will see that you are logically correct, the other poster is logically incorrect.\n", "I recall reading somewhere that a number of bishops spent a great\ndeal of time debating the topic of \"how many angels could fit on the\ntip of a needle\".\n\n Does anybody have a reference to this?\n\n Thanks", "\nThe key word is `spilled'. If semen was spilled anywhere where there\nwas a chance of procreation it was OK. If it was spilt on the ground or\nin to a man it was a big sin, ditto with animals. The jews said sex=pro-\ncreation.\n\nHomosexuals didn't breed, there fore they are evil and should be stoned\nto death. \n\n\n\n\nStoning non-breeding population was fine. Only the breeders were\nconsidered to be worth much.\n\n\n\nXavier", "In God,\n\twhose word I praise,\n\tin God I trust;\n\tI will not be afraid.\n\tWhat can mortal man do to me?", ": \n: Can you please point to something, anything, that proves to me that\n: the universe cannot possibly be explained without accepting as a fact\n: the existence of a god in precisely the way your holy book describes?\n: \n: Can you please convince me that your religion is more than a very\n: cleverly-constructed fable, and that it does indeed have some bearing\n: on my own personal day-to-day life?\n\nWould you consider the word of an eye-witness (Peter) to testify to the\nevents surrounding Jesus' life?\n\n\n 2Pe 1 16 ¶ We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you\n about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were \n eyewitnesses of his majesty.\n\n 2Pe 1 17 For he received honor and glory from God the Father when the\n voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, \"This is my Son, whom \n I love; with him I am well pleased.\"¹\n\n 2Pe 1 18 We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we\n were with him on the sacred mountain.\n\n 2Pe 1 19 ¶ And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and\n you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark\n place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.\n\nThis is a documented testimony. Perhaps further research on your part is\nwarranted before making more statements. There is considerably more to study\nin Peters' two books of testimony regarding the Messiah. It is well worth \nyour time, Mr. Brian.", "\n\n\nIt wasn't Jesus who changed the rules of the game (see quote above),\nit was Paul.\n\nCheers,\nKent\n", "This subject seems to be incredibly inflammatory. Those who subscribe to\n_Biblical Archaeology Review_ will remember a spectacular letter battle set off when someone\ncomplained about a Franklin Mint ad. (_BAR_ is a great magazine, but the\ncontrast between the rather scholarly articles and the incredibly sleazy ads\nis extreme.) In this ad, they were hawking a doll with a head based on the\nfamous bust of Nefertiti, giving the face a typical doll-pink complexion.\nThe letter complained about this as a misrepresentation on the grounds that\nNefertiti was \"a beautiful black queen.\" This set off an exchange of\nhotheaded letters than ran for several issues, to the point where they had\nan article from an Egyptologist titled \"Was Cleopatra Black?\" (The answer\nto the title is \"no\"-- she was greek.)\n\nI have to say that I hear a hysterical note in much of the complaining. I\npersonally have seen only one blond-haired Jesus (in the National Shrine in\nWash. DC), and I found it very jarring. Western representations vary\nenourmously, but in general the image of is of a youngish male with dark\nhair and beard, of a sort that can be found (modulo the nose) all up and\ndown the Mediterranean.\n\n(Also, if what I remember is correct, the \"Black Madonna\" doesn't represent\na person with negroid features. It is black because of an accident. Joe\nBuehler....?)\n\nIn the presence of all those marble statues, one is prone to forget that\ngreeks are rather likely to have black hair. When one crosses the bosporus,\nthe situation breaks down completely. Are Turks white? How about Persians,\nor various groups in the indian subcontinent? Was Gandhi white? How about\nthe Arabs? Or picture Nassar and Sadat standing side by side. And then\nthere are the Ethiopians....\n\nThose of a white racist bent are not likely to say that *any* of these\npeople are \"white\" (i.e., of the racist's \"race\"). If I may risk a\npotentially inflammatory remark, one undercurrent of this seems to be the\nidentification of modern jews as members of the oppressor race. Considering\nthe extreme dicotomy between medieval religion on the one hand and medieval\nantisemitism on the other, I don't think that this \"Jesus was white\" thesis\never played the roles that some hold it did.\n\nRepresentations of Jesus as black or korean or whatever are fine. It seems\nawfully self-serving to insist that Jesus belongs to one's own racial group.", "Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be terrified; do not\nbe discouraged, for the LORD your God will be with you wherever you go.\"", "The traditions of the church hold that all the \"apostles\" (meaning the 11\nsurviving disciples, Matthias, Barnabas and Paul) were martyred, except for\nJohn. \"Tradition\" should be understood to read \"early church writings other\nthan the bible and heteroorthodox scriptures\".", "stuff deleted ...\n\n \nYour logic is falty. If Christianity is a DRUG, and once we die we\ndie, then why would you be reluctant to embrase this drug so that\nwhile you are alive you enjoy yourself.\n\nI also question your overall motives for posting this article. Why\nwould you waste your presious fews seconds on this earth posting your\nopinon to a group that will generally reject it.\n\nIf you die, never having acepting Christ as your savior, I hope you\nhave a fantastic life that it is all you evver dreamed because it is\nal of heaven you will ever know.", "\nWhy don't you cite the passages so that we can focus on some to discuss.\nThen, following Jesus, you can make fools of us and our \"logic\".\n\n\nIndeed, if you can justifiably make this assertion, you must be a\ngenius in logic and making fools of us should be that much easier.", "\n\n\tIf given a definite definition of \"God\", it is sometimes possible to \nfalsify the existance of that God. \n\tBut, when one refuses to give an immutable definition, one can not.\n\n--- \n\n \" Whatever promises that have been made can than be broken. \"", "\n\nThat is because two creation stories is one of the worst examples of \na difficulty with the Bible. \"were formed\" can also be translated \"had been\nformed\" in chapter two without any problems. So the text does not demand\nthat there are two creation stories. ", "\n\n: medtronic.COM (Dale M. Skiba) entirely missed my point in my previous\n\n: COMMENT:\n\n: Shortly after that post, I realized two things: I was running a fever of\n: over 102, and that I probably should not have gone directly from reading\n: alt.slack to posting on this august newsgroup.\n\n: >: >it is not ad hominen to point out that Mr Archer willingly prints blatant\n: >: lies\n: >: >in defense of Bible inerrancy, and thus is worthless as an expert witness.\n\n: >: Okay, Im game, give us a listing of blatant lies from _Encyclopedia of\n: >: Biblical Difficulties_ or other Archer writings.\n\n: >That would be interesting. If only a very short list can be generated,\n: >I think it is more likely that Mr. Archer, with his inerancy mindset is\n: >not always impartial and made a doozy of a mistake. (IMHO I also think\n: >that this mindset tends to generate these sorts of mistakes...)\n\n: >On the other hand, if a long list can be generated, it is more likely\n: >that Mr. Archer intentionally uses deception in hs books. (Why should\n: >he be deceptive just with Tyre?)\n\n: So, Archer is just sitting around, rubbing his hands and plotting how next\n: to deceive? OK, lets _see_ the list...\n\nThis was an open question. I assumed that if Mr. Archer is a chronic\nliar, someone whould have documented it. This assumption is based on\nhow talk.origins regulars have documented numerous cases of Creationist\ndeceptions (such as Duane Guish and his friends).\n\nNo long list of Archer mistakes has yet been given, so this may be just\nan isolated incident...\n", "\n\nSpecial creation has not been observed in action. Bill Rawlin's\nassertions that man was created in his present form do not count \nas creation. Put another way, there are an incredible amount of\nspecies of the planet. How many species have we DIRECTLY observed\nbeing created by a god or gods?\n\n", "\n If the Papacy is infallible, and this is a matter of faith, then the \n Pope cannot \"be wrong!\" If, on the other hand, this is not a matter \n of faith, but a matter of Church law, then we should still obey as the\n Pope is the legal head of the church.\n\n In other words, given the doctrine of infallibility, we have no choice\n but to obey.\n\nThis is a primary problem in the Church today. What you are saying is\nmore or less heresy. You might call it \"infallibilism\". It's the\nidea that the Pope is always right in everything he says or does.\nThis is virtually all over the place, especially in this country.\n\nThe Pope is only infallible under certain very specific and\nwell-defined conditions. When these conditions are not met, he can\nmake mistakes. He can make *big* mistakes.\n\nA couple historical examples come to mind.\n\nBishop Robert Grosseteste was perhaps the greatest product of the\nEnglish Catholic Church. At one point during his career, the reigning\nPope decided to install one of his nephews in an English see. Bishop\nGrosseteste said that this would happen over his dead body (though\nmaybe not in so many words; you have to treat Popes with respect, even\nwhen they are wrong). The problem was that this nephew would just\ncollect the income of the see, and probably never set foot there.\nThis would deprive the people of the see of a shepherd. Bishop\nGrosseteste was quite right in what he did!\n\nAnother example is that of Pope John XXII, a Pope of the Middle Ages.\nHe decided that souls that were saved did not enjoy the Beatific\nVision until the Last Judgement. He decided that this should be a\ndefined doctrine of the Church. Though he didn't quite get around to\ndefining it. Now there's no way this is compatible with Catholic\ndoctrine. The Pope's doctrine was criticised by many in the Church.\nHe went so far as to put a number of his opponents in jail, even. In\nthe end, he had to admit his mistake. Shortly before he died, he\nrecanted. His successor made the exact *opposite* idea a dogma of the\nChurch.\n\nIf you consult any of the great Catholic theologians who treat of such\nsubjects, such as St. Robert Bellarmine (a Doctor of the Church), you\nwill find detailed discussions of whether the Pope can personally fall\ninto heresy or schism.", "\n...\n\nRegarding the first paragraph, I would say that I didn't write it. I\ndon't believe that unbaptized babies are put in Hell. I don't even\nbelieve in Hell. At least, I don't believe in a fiery place where\nthere will be \"gnashing of teeth\".", "Jim and Andy both have it incorrect I believe:\n\nThe *facts* are what is there, the processes that exist in the\npresent or the physical evidence of the processes having occured\nin the past. These *facts* exist with or without a theory.\n\nThe *theory* tries and explains the *facts* and how they relate\nto the rest of the physical universe in a manner that is both\ncoherent and useful, that it can be used to make predictions.\n\nThe *facts* of gravity, evolution, electromagnetic radiation,\nrelativity, atoms will exist and behave in the way in which they\nbehave regardless of whether we have a theory to try and explain\nhow they interact... or even why.\n\nA theory never really becomes a fact... but a theory can predict\nthe existence of a previously unknown fact, and if we find this\nfact as the theory predicted we say the *theory* is *supported*\nby the *facts*. A theory is a mental construct, a speculation, \na model. If it is a good model, it may be useful.\n\nIn science a theory is something that is supported by the \nevidence, considerable evidence, sometimes *all* of the evidence.\nA *hypothesis* is a new fledgling theory because there is not\nyet enough evidence to support it. When a new hypothesis \nis proposed to replace an existing theory, it must explain\n*all* of the facts that the current theory explains and at least\nsome of the facts that the current theory could not and/or\npredict new facts.\n\nIt is so simple.... I'm surprised that this subject gets\nbeat to death about once a month. A quick glance in a dictionary\nwould clear up 99% of the confusion and bandwidth in this\nnewsgroup. Then we could talk about really important things\nlike, why do men have nipples?\n\n-David Utidjian-\nutidjian@remarque.berkeley.edu\n\n\n", "\nWhat would you accept as sources? This very thing has been written\nin lots of books. You could start with Erich Fromm's _The Dogma of Christ_.", "Ken,\nThen what happens when you die?\nWhy are you here?\nWhat is the purpose of Your life, do you think it's \njust by chance you're in the family you are in and have the\nfriends you have?\nWhy do you think your searching? To fill the void that\nexists in your life. Who do you think can fill that void", "In turpin@cs.utexas.edu (Russell Turpin)\n\n\nI regard love as no more or less \"benign\" than any other Christian does.\nYou are merely expressing \"approval\" of the consequences I find therein.\nWhich says more about our politics and cultural trappings than about my\n(or any) religion. \"Love\" is a highly ambiguous word, of which Christians\ncan write both the \"gentle\" words Paul uses of it in 1 Corinthians -- in\na passage that even the \"conservatives\" will quote at you :-) -- and the\nwords of T. S. Eliot in his Pentacost Hymn, \"Love is the unfamiliar Name\nthat wove the intolerable shirt of flame ...\"\n\nThis is in any case rather to the side of what I was attempting to raise\nin my note, as will become more evident below.\n\n\nblechhh. I think you are misreading me, rather seriously. Though,\ngiven my principle that one CANNOT force one's own notion of \"sin\" on\nanother, and my unshakeable \"disestablishmentarianism\", Russel Turpin\nand others (believers and unbelievers alike) are under no threat of my\nlegislating my own understanding of Christian love.\n\n\nYou misread. I can do (and have repeatedly done) a complete bill of\naccusation against the Inquisition by exhibiting in as thorough a form\nas anyone might want a demonstration of the harm it has done to human\nbeings (in the first place) and to respect for (let alone love of) \"God\"\nin near succession. Please go back to my quoted words above:\n\nThe \"possibility that always exists\" is that I (or, to revert to proper\ntime sequence, my predecessors over the last several centuries) could\npersuade \"Christian B\" of my case that the Inquisition *does* indeed\nconstitute an egregious violation of the Law of Love. I must also note\nthat the majority of Christians HAVE been so persuaded. By Christian\nargumentation, as well as by secular [both Christian and non-Christian]\nprohibitions.\n\nWhat Mr. Turpin alludes to is a trickier point:\n\n\tA. I demonstrate the human pain and violation of love involved\n\t in the Inquisition.\n\n\tB. The Inquisitor responds that Mother Church must, however\n\t painful this *seems*, \"discipline\" her children for their\n\t own good -- in this case the salvation of their souls (or\n\t if the tortured heretic will not recant, than by bad example\n\t \"deterring\" others from the same loss-of-soul.)\n\n\tA. I point out that this \"justification\" of a failure in love\n\t depends on a highly speculative construal of texts and of\n\t philosophical assertions that are quite undemonstrable.\n\n\tB. Burns me at the stake.\n\nMy rhetoric has failed, but the point I am making is sustained. What is\ngoing on here has a *lot* to do with \"cultural baggage.\" In this case,\nthe baggage includes a (nearly universal, and absolutely secular) belief\nthat an accused person must prove innocence and that testimony is most\nbelievable if taken under torture. The elimination of Inqisitorial\npractice (in those places where it *has* been eliminated, or at least\ngreatly reduced) has very little, if anything, to do with the discussion\nof sin in the exchange between A and B.\n\nMr. Turpin is pointing out that, if I am A versus the Grand Inquisitor's B,\nthen my persuasion is not very likely to work. I know this; and in what-\never personal agony, I consign the issue to God and my ghostly defense\nattorney. So, \"one possibility\" fails in this case -- as it will fail in\nmay others. At the other extreme, the \"persuasion\" will succeed when it\nproperly SHOULD not, if it entails mistaken assumptions I share with the\nInquisitor. And that is potentially an even more troubling case, in that\nmany of the victims of Inquisition will have \"accepted\" that they were in\nfact sinful (in such random cases as they may actually have been guilty\nof charges brought against them.)\n\nThe point is that the \"persuasion\" breaks down when the parties do NOT\nshare enough to agree on all the cultural baggage -- and given the main\nthrust of the Inquisition, against \"heresy\", it is *bound* to break down\nin precisely the \"worst\" cases. The \"conservative\" (I don't think that\nis the right word, BTW) will take refuge in what I attribute to B above,\nthat he is \"justified\" in causing harm because he *thinks* that works to\na \"greater good.\" But this is a violent and extravagant REFUSAL to follow\nthe gospel, as if one's theories about \"sin\" entitled one to cast aside\nJesus' words on dealing with sinners (cf. Matthew 5:39ff).\n\nI am a \"radical\" Christian *only* in that I take the gospel seriously.\n\n\nWell, the whole *point* of making these the \"base\" commandments is that\nthey *aren't* reducible to rules. A set of rules is a moral code or a\nlaw code or an algorithm for acting. Such things can be very helpful\nto individuals or societies -- but not if they are used *instead* of a\npersonal involvement in and responsibility for one's actions. The Great\nCommandment is, more than anything else, a call to act *as if you were\nGod and accepting ultimate responsibility* in your every action. A\ndemand that I, like most, would rather *not* hear, but it keeps popping\nup nonetheless (along with the reassurance that it is more important\nthat I be open to trying this, than succeeding at it). \"Conservatives\"\nmay twist this \"act as if you were God\" to mean \"lay down rules for other\npeople and be as nasty to them as possible if they don't keep YOUR rules.\"\nThey are so insistent (and obvious) about this that they have convinced a\nlot of people (who rightly reject the whole concept!) that such idiocy\nIS how God acts. That, after all, is the standard accusation \"against\nGod\" by the atheists here and elsewhere. That the \"conservatives\" have\nconfused THEIR manipulative, hoop-jumping notions of coercing other\npeople with the Nature of God is almost the entire content of standard\nAmerican atheism -- and I quite agree with it on this point.\n\n\nAnd different bodies of Christians have, from the beginning, urged\n*different* \"ethical systems\" (or in some cases, none). As a result,\nit is bizarre to identify any one of these systems, however popular\n(or infamous) with Christianity. Christianity DOES NOT HAVE A TORAH.\nIt does not have a QU'RAN. Specifically Christian scripture has very\nlittle, if anything, in the way of \"commandments\" -- so little that\nthe \"Christians\" who desperately *want* commandments go \"mining\" for\nthem with almost no support (and thus almost no obvious limitation :-))\nfor their efforts. The one, single, thing in the gospels which Jesus\nspecifically \"gives\" as \"a commandment\" to us is \"love one another.\"\n\n\t[I will be expanding on this point in a reply to Paul Hudson\n\t that I hope to get to in a day or so -- it is quite true that\n\t SOME Christians infer LOTS of commandments from the NT; I'll\n\t point out what has to be going on in these inferences, and why\n\t there is a huge amount of \"cultural baggage\" involved.]\n\nYou are quite right that this is \"goo\" if one is looking for an ethical\nsystem.\n\nBut why should anyone BE looking for an ethical system, since our\nsociety is eager to hand us one or more no matter what we do? It\nmay be that we need a principle for the CRITIQUE of ethical systems\n-- in which case I will profer the _agapate allelou_ once again.\n\n\nI think you are begging the question. Why don't I and the (myriads\nof) other Christians like me tell you something about Christianity?\n[Nor is this very new in Christianity -- you might want to look up\nthe origins and fundamental doctrines of the Quakers, from the 17th\ncentury onwards, and they are not at all the first to understand the\ngospel in a manner that is congenial to my case.]", ":P>My atheism is incidental, and the question of \"God\" is trivial.\n:P\n:P>But........\n:P\n:P>It matters a great deal to me when idiots try to force their belief on me,\n:P>when they try to enforce their creation myths to be taught as scientific\n:P>fact in school, when they tell me I can have no morals because morals are\n:P>from \"God\", when a successful presidential candidate says that an atheist\n:P>shouldn't be considered a citizen and couldn't be patriotic because \"after\n:P>all this is one nation under God\", when the fundies try to take over the\n:P>party that may well provide the next President of The United States of\n:P>America so that they can force their beliefs on the rest of the country,\n:P>et cetera..........\n:P\n:P>That's why I subscribe to alt.atheism.\n:P\n:P>And in the middle of this, people who aren't mind readers pop up on\n:P>alt.atheism to tell me what I do or don't believe, or to concoct some\n:P>straw-man reason why I don't share their particular belief.\n:P\n:P>You think I should just accept this?\n:P\n:P>This isn't particularly a dig at fundamentalist christians. I have been\n:P>told on alt.atheism that I reject Allah because I am too proud to embrace\n:P>islam, and that I reject Krishna because my eyes are closed. But most of\n:P>the religious nuts who post on alt.atheism are some kind of militant\n:P>christian who can't accept that others don't share their beliefs. This\n:P>kind of stuff should be kept on talk.religion.misc, where it belongs.\n:P\n:P>ATHEISM ISN'T A BELIEF, IT'S THE ABSENCE OF BELIEF IN ANY GODS.\n:P> -------\n:P\n:P>Do you have a problem with this?\n:P\n:P>>\n:P>>Bill\n:PFirst, I would like to say that atheism is in fact a belief. It is a beilief\n:Pbecause a belief in something you hold to with ador and faith. An atheist says there are no gods. This cannot be proven. therefore you are excepting this on\n:Pfaith alone. That is a belief. Secondly, you complain so much about how the \n:Pfundamental christians are trying to force their beliefs on you, but you don't\n:Pmention anything about how the atheists, such as; Madamme Murry O'hare(founder\n:Pof the Atheists Association in Austin Texas), and Robert Sherman(from the Chicago area) have been trying to force their beliefs on everyone by trying to get rid of God from our society by banning religious paintings from parks during Chistmas, forcing cities to change their town seals if there is any mention of God in it (like Sherman has done), or trying to get the slogan \"In God We Trust\" off of the American currency? You also talk about creation \"myths\" as if they are in fact myths and tha\n:P\n:P\n:P \n:Phave concrete evidece of this. You probably\n:Pdon't and that just enforces my point that your atheism is just as much belief as my christianity. If this is not so please do show me why it isn't. \n:PMark Covalt \n\nThe only real problem I have with the argument of christianity is that they seem to ignore their origin that being Asiatic in origin. As soon as christians become the \ngood non ego-centric Buddhists they are supposed to be, then I might listen.", "I would like a list of Bible contadictions from those of you who dispite\nbeing free from Christianity are well versed in the Bible.\n", "[...]\n\n That brings up an interesting question. If this interpretation is\ncorrect, how would these people be getting into Heaven before Jesus\nopened the gates of Heaven?", "\n\nAnd I think we ought to hold Christ accoountable for all of his followers \nwho died at the hand of the Romans also. It was their own fault for believing.\n\nGod, this society reminds me more of the Roman Empire every day; I guess\nI'll just log off and go watch American Gladiators.\n\n", "\n...\n\nBut what was wrong with it? It won't tempt anyone to any kind of sin, as\nfar as I can tell. It doesn't belittle anyone. It does not substitute\noffensiveness for humor (it's genuinely funny).\n\nWe shouldn't assume that _all_ jokes that mention sexuality are \"dirty\"\nmerely because so many are.\n\nAnd we should never mistake prudery for spirituality. It can be the direct\nopposite -- a symptom of the _lack_ of a healthy perspective on God's\ncreation.\n\n", "\nThe last sentence is ironic, since so many readers of\nsoc.religion.christian seem to not be embarrassed by apologists such as\nJosh McDowell and C.S. Lewis. The above also expresses a rather odd sense\nof history. What makes you think the masses in Aquinas' day, who were\nmostly illiterate, knew any more about rhetoric and logic than most people\ntoday? If writings from the period seem elevated consider that only the\ncream of the crop, so to speak, could read and write. If everyone in\nthe medieval period \"knew the rules\" it was a matter of uncritically\naccepting what they were told.\n\nBill Mayne", "\n\n\n\nA good point. What helps to keep such things going is the public\nattitude that one should have \"faith\"\"; that some authority from\non high should not be subjected to mere reason. Couple this with a\nvariety of personality quirks, mojor and minor mental illnesses, and\nego of would-be leaders, and you get all the variety of cults and \nreligions that people subscribe to.\n", "[remainder of message deleted]\n\nPardon me for replying to only a portion of your message :)\n\nThe reason we can say \"God just exists\" and can't say \"The universe just \nexists\" is because the universe is a natural realm and is subject to natural \nlaws in general and the law of cause and effect in particular. That is, we \nobserve in nature that every cause has an effect, and every effect was produced \nby a cause. The existence of the natural realm, as an effect itself, cannot be \nits own cause; it must therefore have a supernatural cause.\n\nGod, on the other hand, is a supernatural being, and is therefore not subject \nto such natural laws as the law of cause and effect. As a supernatural being, \nGod's eternal existence does not imply a previous cause the way the existence \nof a physical, natural cosmos does. Thus, those who believe in the \nsupernatural have a valid basis for accepting the existence of uncaused \nphenomena such as the eternal God, whereas those who deny the existence of the \nsupernatural are faced with the dilemma of a physical universe whose very \nnature shows that it is not sufficient to explain its own existence.\n\nThis is, of course, an oversimplification of a complex topic, but I just wanted \nto clarify some important differences between the supernatural (God) and the \nnatural (the universe), since you seem to mistake them as being \ninterchangeable.", "A repost from talk.religion.misc,talk.politics.guns,soc.culture.jewish:\n\nFrom: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)\nSubject: Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews?\nDate: 20 Apr 1993 19:15:13 GMT\nOrganization: Stratus Computer, Inc.\n\n\n\n\nAll government claims. If they were really stocking such weapons for\nArmageddon, how come they never used them?\n\n\n\"The time is coming. Those of you who have no sword, sell your shirt and\n buy one... And they told him, Master, we have two swords. And he said, It \n is enough.\" (LUKE ...)\n\n\"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace,\n but the sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father,\n and the daugher against her mother...\" (MATT 10 34-35)\n\n\nJust maybe you won't be home. Then you can come home to something \nlike this:\n\n \"Well, it's been a rough month,\" begins Johnnie Lawmaster. \"I\n just get laid off, and my divorce became final. But I just wasn't\n ready for what happened this particular Monday.\"\n\n That particular Monday was was December 16, the first day of the\n Bill of Rights' third century, the day when federal agents and local\n law enforcement officer broke into the house in Tulsa that always flew\n the U.S. flag. When Lawmaster drove into the driveway that bleak\n afternoon, one of his neighbors had some news.\n\n \"'Ohmigod, John, you are in big trouble!' my neighbor tells me.\n 'Sixty police, federal agents and the bomb squad busted in you house,\n kicked down the door, cut locks off your gun safe.' I couldn't\n believe it. Then I walked inside. What a nightmare.\"\n\n It was no nightmare; it was horribly real life. Apparently acting\n on information the Lawmaster possessed an illegal firearm, some thirty\n agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) teamed up\n with state and Tulsa police authorities, search warrant in hand, to\n search for a \"Colt, AR-15, .223 caliber machine gun, unknown serial\n number.\" The warrant, issued by U.S. Magistrate John Leo Wagner, also\n authorized agents to seize \"any tools used in the alteration or\n modification of firearms, such as files or drills; documents, papers,\n books, records, and other tangible properties which identify occupants\n or owners of the property to be searched....\"\n\n Reports vary, but according to neighbors, the joint task force\n operation aimed at the unemployed warehouseman from a nearby hospital\n involved some 60 agents and local law enforcement personnel against\n Lawmaster. They cordoned off the street; took station with weapons\n drawn in the back yard; used a battering ram to break through the\n front door; kicked in the back door; broke into his gun safe; threw\n personal papers around the house; spilled boxes of ammunition on the\n floor; broke into a small, locked box that contained precious coins;\n stood on a table to peer through the ceiling tiles, breaking the table\n in the process. Then, they left. The doors were closed but not\n latched, much less locked. The ammo and guns were left unsecured.\n\n \"My front and back doors were pulled shut, but they were busted\n through and couldn't latch. Anybody could have waltzed in there and\n stolen everything I own. A child could have taken a gun. The guns,\n the safe -- everything was open and laying around. I keep all my\n magazines empty, but someone had loaded them. While I was looking\n around in amazement, the gas, electric and water companies show up to\n turn the power off. They said they were told to shut things down.\n Then I found the note. \"Nothing Found - ATF.\"\n\n \"They didn't make any attempt to notify me. I've lived in Tulsa\n all my life and never got more than a traffic ticket. How come they\n can't look that up, realize I've been law-abiding my whole life, then\n come to the door when I'm home? They didn't leave someone here to\n watch over my private property. They didn't even come by to explain\n what happened. They just raided my home, ransaked it, left it wide\n open and left.\"\n\n Lawmaster placed a phone call to the local BATF agent. \"I asked,\n 'Are you gonna' arrest me?' and he said, 'No.' I asken him, \"Who is\n going to repair and clean up my house?' And he said, \"If you're going\n to talk to me, come down to my office.'\n\n \"'I can't come down!' I said. 'My doors are broken!' If I had\n been on vacation and I didn't have friendly neighbors, I would have\n lost everything I own. Here I am a competent, responsible firearms\n owner, and the government leaves them open, unlocked, with ammo strewn\n around.\"\n\n Lawmaster said the agent advised him, \"If you want your door to\n lock and your gun safe to lock, you're gonna' have to pay for it\n yourself.\"\n\n \"'Oh, I'll come right down, alright,' I told him. 'I'll come\n down, but I'll bring my attorney.' And he said, 'Well, you bring\n your attorney, and we won't talk to you.'\"\n\n\nSo if you don't want your tea party to be held in awkward silence, make\nsure your lawyer isn't there, there's a good chap.\n\n\n\nWhat a repulsive outlook on society. \"Followers of unusual religions\nmay be killed by the government -- it simply can't be helped in a free\nsociety.\"\n\nYou and I have two different concepts of \"free.\"\n-- ", "\n\nIt is still incestuous.... :)\n\n", "->\tFirst I want to start right out and say that I'm a Christian. It \n->makes sense to be one. Have any of you read Tony Campollo's book- liar, \n->lunatic, or the real thing? (I might be a little off on the title, but he \n->writes the book. Anyway he was part of an effort to destroy Christianity, \n->in the process he became a Christian himself.\n\nSounds like you are saying he was a part of some conspiracy. Just what organization did he \nbelong to? Does it have a name?\n\n->\tThe book says that Jesus was either a liar, or he was crazy ( a \n->modern day Koresh) or he was actually who he said he was.\n\nLogic alert - artificial trifercation. The are many other possible explainations. Could have been\nthat he never existed. There have been some good points made in this group that is not \nimpossible that JC is an amalgam of a number of different myths, Mithra comes to mind.\n\n->\tSome reasons why he wouldn't be a liar are as follows. Who would \n->die for a lie? Wouldn't people be able to tell if he was a liar? People \n->gathered around him and kept doing it, many gathered from hearing or seeing \n->someone who was or had been healed. Call me a fool, but I believe he did \n->heal people. \n\n\nLogic alert - argument from incredulity. Just because it is hard for you to believe this doesn't\nmean that it isn't true. Liars can be very pursuasive, just look at Koresh that you yourself site.\nHe has followers that don't think he is a fake and they have shown that they are willing to die.\nBy not giving up after getting shot himself, Koresh has shown that he too is will to die for what \nhe believes. As far as healing goes. If I rememer right the healing that was attributed is not\nconsistent between the different gospels. In one of them the healing that is done is not any more \nthat faith healers can pull off today. Seems to me that the early gospels weren't that compeling,\nso the stories got bigger to appeal better.\n\n->\tNiether was he a lunatic. Would more than an entire nation be drawn \n->to someone who was crazy. Very doubtful, in fact rediculous. For example \n->anyone who is drawn to David Koresh is obviously a fool, logical people see \n->this right away.\n->\tTherefore since he wasn't a liar or a lunatic, he must have been the \n->real thing. \n\n\nOr might not have existed, or any number of things. That is the logical pitfall that those who\nuse flawed logic like this fall into. There are bifurcations (or tri, quad, etc) that are valid, because\nin the proceeding steps, the person shows conclusively that the alternatives are all that are \npossible. Once everyone agrees that the given set is indeed all there are, then arguments among\nthe alternatives can be presentent, and one mostly likely to be true can be deduced by excluding\nall other possible alternatives.\n\nHowever, if it can be shown that the set is not all inclusive, then any conclusions bases on the \nincomplete set are invalid, even if the true choice is one of the original choices. I have given at \nleast one valid alternative, so the conclusion that JC is the real McCoy just because he isn't one of\nthe other two alternative is no longer valid.\n\n->\tSome other things to note. He fulfilled loads of prophecies in \n->the psalms, Isaiah and elsewhere in 24 hrs alone. This in his betrayal \n->and Crucifixion. I don't have my Bible with me at this moment, next time I \n->write I will use it.\n\nJC was a rabbi. He knew what those prophecies were. It wouldn't be any great shakes to make\nsure one does a list of actions that would fullfill prophecy. What would be compeling is if there\nwere a set of clear and explicit prophecies AND JC had absolutely NO knowledge of then, yet \nfullfilled them anyway.\n\n->\tI don't think most people understand what a Christian is. It \n->is certainly not what I see a lot in churches. Rather I think it \n->should be a way of life, and a total sacrafice of everything for God's \n->sake. He loved us enough to die and save us so we should do the \n->same. Hey we can't do it, God himself inspires us to turn our lives \n->over to him. That's tuff and most people don't want to do it, to be a \n->real Christian would be something for the strong to persevere at. But \n->just like weight lifting or guitar playing, drums, whatever it takes \n->time. We don't rush it in one day, Christianity is your whole life. \n->It is not going to church once a week, or helping poor people once in \n->a while. We box everything into time units. Such as work at this \n->time, sports, Tv, social life. God is above these boxes and should be \n->carried with us into all these boxes that we have created for \n->ourselves. \n\nHere I agree with you. Anyone who buys into this load of mythology should take what it says \nseriously, and what it says is that it must be a total way of life. I have very little respect for \nXians that don't. If the myth is true, then it is true in its entirity. The picking and choosing\nthat I see a lot of leaves a bad taste in my mouth.\n\nJim\t \n\n\n\n\n---\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nJames L. Felder\t\t\t|\nSverdrup Technology,Inc.\t| phone: 216-891-4019\nNASA Lewis Research Center \t| \nCleveland, Ohio 44135 \t| email: jfelder@lerc.nasa.gov \n\"Some people drink from the fountain of knowledge, other people gargle\"", "\n\n\tAgreed.\n\n--\n\n\n \"Satan and the Angels do not have freewill. \n They do what god tells them to do. \"", " Since when does atheism mean trashing other religions?There must be a God\n of inbreeding to which you are his only son.", "\nHmm, it seems that this is the core of Christianity then, you \nhave to feel guilty, and then there's this single personality\nthat will save you from this universal guilt feeling.\n\nBrian, I will tell you a secret, I don't feel guilty at all,\nI do mistakes, and I regret them, however I've never had this\nhuge guilt feeling hanging over my shoulder.\n\nIf things happen wrong, I will try to learn from the mistakes\nand go on.\n\nThis all is a very clear indication that you need a certain\npersonality type in order to believe and adjust to certain\nreligious doctrines. And if your personality type is \nopposite, then you are not that easily attached to a certain\nworld view system.\n\n\nAll I know is that I don't know everything. And frankly speaking\nI don't care, life is fun anyway. I recognize that I'm not \nperfect, but that does not hinder me from have a healthy\nand inspiring life.\n\nThere are humans that subscribe to the same notion. The nice\nthing is that when you finally shake off this huge burden,\nthe shoulders feel far more relaxed!\n\nCheers,\nKent", "I didn't say it NEVER mentioned Satan, I said it RARELY, if at all. Please \nexcuse me for my lack of perfect memory or omnipotence.", "Ok, let me see if I can get all this out concisely. I am on an\ninformation gathering venture regarding the various expressions of\nChristianity/churches there are. \n My husband and I come from very different, but completely\nChristian backgrounds. I was a Lutheran when I met him and he was a\nborn and raised Church of Christ member. At first I agreed with a lot\nof what the C of C was about, I wanted to move from the liturgical\nbased Lutheran church to something a little more Biblical based.\nHowever over the last year, I've been regretting changing to the\nChurch of Christ for a number of reasons - for one thing I am not a\nfundamentalist and believe that a few things in the Bible are\nsocio-cultural in nature and don't relate to the Christian doctrine.\nOne of my sorest spots is the role of women. I believe that through\nMary and other women, Chris validated women as worthy disciples - but\nin the C of C the writings of Paul are taken without exception and I\nam told that I am not an equal partner in my marriage but the lesser\nmember, I am to submit to my husband in all things (if I hear that\nverse one more time....) and I am not to take an active role in\nanything which might be construed as putting me in authority over men\n(ie leading prayers, conducting Bible studies etc). The last straw\nwas when the Elders at our church came down on one of our college\ngroups because it was all-women and they wanted a man to lead the\nstudy.\nAlso my husband and I really resent the way everyone at our church\nfeels that if you aren't a conservative republican - you aren't a REAL\nChristian (I got told that nobody who voted for Clinton should call\nthemselves a Christian). Hence we are subjected during the service to\nlong prayers calling for things we flatly dont agree with. We are\nalso don't agree with the C of C's dread of any new \"movement\" being\nled by the young people.\n\nSo, we have been church hunting with NO success. I want a reasonably\nbiblical based church where women are viewed as whole people no matter\nwhat their calling ( C of C really looked down on career women).\nChristopher is looking for a church with deeply rooted religious\nconvictions, with adult baptism and a church where the members still\nbring their Bibles to service.\n\nWe are so confused here and we're drifting around trying to find a\nplace where we both feel loved and can express our faith honestly and\nwithout reservation. If anyone can point us in a direction we'd be\nthrilled!\nI'm afraid that it will be very hard for me to go back to C of C and\neven harder for me to stay churchless for long.\n\nany responses would be welcome\n\n\nthe diel family", "\n\nHmmm. Here's food for thought: \" ...but rather be in fear of him\nwho can destroy both soul and body in gehenna.\" Math 10:28", "Golgotha the whole process of the fall of man\n\nThis was precisely my point. From a theological bent, those who lived\nimmediately after the flood, such as Noah, Ham, his son Cush, and his son\nNimrod had a much stronger appreciation of Divine wrath. They also had a\nstronger understanding of the True God. In fact, this immediacy was a cause of\nhardship for some, so much so that Atlas, who is seen with heavens resting on\nhis shoulders. But this is not merely the physical heavens that he is lifting.\n It is to put God and the strict spirituality of His law at a distance, and\nthus he became the \"Elevator of the heavens.\" This \"god\" made men able to\n\"feel\" as if heaven were afar off and \"as if either the God of Heaven could not\nsee through the dark cloud, or did not regard with displeasure the breakers of\nHis laws.\" It is interesting to see that it was that was titled \"Emancipator\"\nor \"Deliverer\" or Phoroneus. It was Nimrod who invaded the patriarchal system\nand abridged the liberties of mankind, yet was worship for having given many\nbenefits. He was a deliverer all right but not as we think of Christ as a\nDeliverer. One delivered from a conscious feeling of God's wrath, the other\nactually performed a delivery from Gods wrath and it is up to us to accept it\nas true.\n\n\nI don't see the problem. From the time of Adam, those who looked forward to\nthe coming \"Anointed One\" and put their faith in the fact that it was God who\nwas to do the provision, were accounted as righteous. But up to the\nCrucifixion, their sins were only covered, not taken away. Therefore, the\ndispensation of the Church views the accountability of sin the same, but see it\nas a completed action. Rom's makes it clear that it has always been salvation\nvia faith and nothing else.\n\n\nI understand what you're trying to convey, but I don't think I'd lay hold of it\nbecause the scriptures do equate the eternality of the second death with the\neternality of, say the Church ruling with Christ. Jn 17 tells us what eternal\nlife is exactly, as you are correct that it is much more than non-cessation of\nconsciousness. \n\n\nIt depends upon your def of \"lost.\" The elect were lost only in time as\noutside of time they had been chosen from the foundation of the world. \nExistentially we were all born \"lost\", but the \"righteous\" were \"in Christ\" and\ntherefore never *assuredly* lost. \n\nMaybe this summer I could find time to put together a paper on it. I simply\nhave to buy more books for myself, and these older books are very expensive. \nEither that or countless trips to the oriental museum.\n\n\nCouldn't agree with you more. Our understanding, of say eschatology, is\nclearly clearer than that of, say Isaiah. But that is not what I was referring\nto.\n\n\n\nNo, I understand it as you have said. This was my point.\n\n\nAh! This is it. This is the big question. However, I would say, again I\nthink, that the best lie is one that has an appreciable amount of truth to it. \nLook at Satan's twist of God's Word when he coerced Eve. That is a very\ninteresting study.\n\n >The similarity in the midst of great variety of\n\nYes, that is my point. But it is a two edged sword. For some do not want the\nunderlying reality to be revealed. They were not known as \"mystery\" religions\nfor no reason. There was the public side of them and there was the private\nside, that was so protected that the initiates to an oath of death if they\nrevealed that private side. That is why it is so hard to bring their teachings\nto light. The \"Mystery of Iniquity\" that we find in the Bible, correlates to\nthis I think. The primary object of the mysteries was to introduce privately,\nlittle by little, under the seal of secrecy and sanction of oath, what it would\nnot have been safe to openly profess was the true religion. Case in point\ntoday might be the Masons. (Just a note, that they too worshipped Osiris in\nEgypt, who can be traced to Nimrod, the \"husband son.\")\n\n\nNo, I disagree with you here Gerry. I know what you're alluding to in that the\nchurch, primarily the RCC, did endorse Aristotelian philosophy into their\nworldview, but I would disagree with you that it originated in Greece. If you\nare a student of history, you will come to see that much of what Greece came to\nexpound to the world as their original, was just an adulteration of that which\nthey had taken from conquered countries. The soul is clearly mentioned and\ndiscussed at length in the Egyptian religions. As was the unity of God and also\nthe trinity of God. See if you can find Wilkinson's \"Egyptians.\" He really\ndoes a number on what the Greeks did to what they \"pilfered\" from the\nEgyptians. \n\n\nI'm not knocking Aristotle or Plato or any other Greek thinker. Its just that\n\"there is nothing new under the sun.\"\n\n", "\n\nAre you so ignorant that you have never heard of _Archaeopteryx_?\n\n\nThe special creation \"theory\" is nothing but holes. Please show me a\nspecies poofed into existence by your god. I have never seen this.", "\n\nOh, and us with the big degrees don't got imagination, huh?\n\nThe alleged dichotomy between imagination and knowledge is one of the most\npernicious fallacys of the New Age. Michael, thanks for the generous\noffer, but we have quite enough dreams of our own, thank you.\n\nYou, on the other hand, are letting your own dreams go to waste by\nfailing to get the maths/thermodynamics/chemistry/(your choices here)\nwhich would give your imagination wings.\n\nJust to show this isn't a flame, I leave you with a quote from _Invasion of \nthe Body Snatchers_:\n\n\"Become one of us; it's not so bad, you know\"", "-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----\n\n\n\nDavid, given the proposition of the first first paragraph, the conclusion of\nthe second *should* read:\n\n ^^^^^^^\n\nWhich completely overturns your argument. To not see this requires an\nunbelievable degree of stupidity or naivete on your part. Perhaps it's time\nfor you to own up and say which spook agency you work for...\n\n- --Paul\n\n\n-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----\nVersion: 2.2", "[DISCLAIMER: Throughout this post, there are statements and questions which\ncould easily be interpreted as being sarcastic. They are not. I have written\nthis reply in the most even-handed manner that I can, with no emotions boiling\nto the surface as it was written. Please accept this as a serious attempt to\nfoster dialog and rest assurred that I make every attempt to make fun of no\none, except myself ;-)]\n\n\n\n[...]\n\n\n\tHmmm. There are other animals on this planet with advanced\n\tmental facilities which have not developed \"religion\" as a\n\tsatisfactory explaination for the unexplained. Why is this so?\n\n\tFurther, it appears that only humans have a \"need\" to explain the\n\tunexplained. Why is this so? The other animals on this planet,\n\tincluding those with advanced mental facilities, seem perfectly\n\tcontent in their ignorance.\n\n\tI'd like to point out that your presuppositions scream out at me\n\tfrom your unsupported statement. They are: 1) humans are animal\n\t*only*; 2) religion exists as a crutch so that the unexplained need\n\tnot be researched; 3) religion was \"made up\" by humans to address a\n\tperceived need; 4) the biological aspect of humans is deified (that\n\tis, all aspects of human life can be categorized in a hierarchical\n\tstructure with biology at the apex).\n\n\tNeedless to say, I disagree with your strong opinion #1 and the\n\tunderlying presuppositions.\n\n\n\tI disagree that Christianity is \"an infectious cult\". It has\n\tcertainly shown itself to be persistent as a belief system, in\n\tspite of various persecutions throughout the past two millenia.\n\tThat it continues to persevere does not demonstrate that it is\n\t\"infectious\" in a derrogatory sense; it may be that it provides\n\ta workable system for its adherents (and I would argue that this\n\tis the case).\n\n\tI disagree that Christianity is \"a safety blanket\" which supplants\n\thope and purpose. Rather, it points an individual to the one\n\tSource of hope and purpose. There is nothing hidden about a\n\tChristian's source for hope and purpose. Of what usefulness to\n\tyou is the distinction between internally motivated hope and purpose\n\tand externally given hope and purpose? Is the (apparent) loss of\n\tcontrol over one's own life the problem or is it something else?\n\n\tFinally, one does not appropriate \"eternal happiness\" by following\n\tChristian moral standards. Indeed, the sole reason for the existance\n\tof Christianity is *because* standards are inadequate to save people\n\tfrom their imperfections. Moral standards are merely guides to the\n\tChristian; the real power to moral living is given to the Christian\n\tin the Person of God's Spirit.\n\n\tHeaven is one of two final states that\n\tChristian doctrine postulates. However, Christians are generally\n\tnot motivated to live according to Christian moral standards by this\n\tpromised future reward; rather, they are motivated by the perceived\n\tbenefits to them in the here-and-now.\n\n\n\tMany Christian organizations are concerned with evangelism as a\n\tpriority, and rightly so (for it was Jesus Himself who gave this\n\tas a priority for His followers). However, it is not the penultimate\n\tpriority as evangelism is normally understood (i.e. preach the word,\n\tconvert at nearly any cost, repeat with new convert ad infinitum).\n\tRather, such evangelism is generally best done through respecting\n\tthe opinions of others while *demonstrating* the very real benefits\n\tof a Christian lifestyle. This demonstration should be so powerful\n\tthat it compels the non-Christian to seek out the Christian to ask\n\t\"Why?\" Needless to say, such a demonstration is not easily accom-\n\tplished (it takes a radical committment to the person of Jesus), it\n\tdoes not happen quickly (so perseverance on the part of the Christian\n\tis required), and it cannot occur where no personal bonds of\n\tfriendship exist (it is ineffective with strangers who cannot\n\tevaluate the demonstration over time, and it is easy to alienate or\n\tharm others if the sole purpose of being a \"friend\" is to gain a\n\tconversion).\n\n\tAs a long-time Christian (nearly 20 years), I view with some skep-\n\tticism *all* evangelism programs which incorporate a \"hurry-up\"\n\tattitude. Pressured conversions may ultimately be worse than no\n\tconversion at all (because the pressured convert realizes s/he was\n\tcoerced and disavows Christianity when they would have been open\n\tto it in the future had they not been taken advantage of now).\n\tThe Bible states that it is the very Spirit of God which brings\n\tconviction of wrong-doing to people. I am content to do my part\n\t(witness) and let the Spirit do the rest.\n\n\n\tWe are far more than animals. We sleep, eat, reproduce, and die\n\tjust as other animals do - true. But, we are also capable of more\n\tthan this. If your personal vision of humanity (or of yourself) is\n\tso limited, I can only hope and pray ;-) that you will someday find\n\ta more expansive view.\n\n\t(For reflection, what animals have the wide variety of performing\n\tarts that humans do? How is it that humans can learn the language\n\tof other humans (or animals) but that other animals cannot do so?\n\tHow is it that humans can organize themselves in various social\n\tstructures whereas other animals have only one structure?)\n\n\n\tBlatant assertion. Christianity is not physically addictive.\n\tChristianity is not psychologically addictive. Christianity is not\n\ta *thing* which one snorts/ingests/shoots-up; it is a relationship\n\twith a living being. You might as validly characterize any close-\n\tknit relationship with this appelation.\n\n\n\tThere are \"Jesus freaks\" who let the emotional aspects of worship\n\tand Christian living gain (and retain) the upper hand. Even so,\n\tthis does not by itself invalidate the foundation from which these\n\tthings flow.\n\n\n\tGuilty by association? That \"christianity\" which forces itself\n\tupon another is not Christianity at all.\n\n\n\tYou appear to have an amazing certainty about what really happened\n\t2000 years ago. How did you come by it?\n\n\tI cannot accept your conclusion that Jesus' influence was a sole\n\tresult of the Roman sack of Jerusalem in 70AD. He was 30+ years\n\tgone by this time. It strains the bounds of credulity to assert\n\tthat nothing about Jesus' life was noteworthy _until_ the sack.\n\n\n\tChristianity is having a relationship with Jesus Christ Himself.\n\tWhat do you know of Him?\n", "Responding to the moderator:\n\n\nYes, I agree. What I'm trying to point out is that, in matters of faith\n(i.e. tenets which are not logically persuasive), one may be convinced\nof the truth of certain things through, for instance, personal\nrevelation. And its certainly fine to share that revelation or those\nbeliefs with others. And I don't think that its arrogant, persay, to\naccepts matters of pure faith as truth for oneself. Where I think the\nconflict arises is in assuming that, where disagreements on beliefs\narise, all others *must* have been given the same truth, and that God \nmust reveal His truth to everyone in such a way that all would \nhonestly agree. I think this can lead to the conclusion that anyone \nwho disagrees with you are being sinful or dishonest; that they are \nrejecting something they *know* to be truth because it is inconvenient \nfor them, or because they wish to spurn God.\n\nI would say that this is equivalent to assuming that *all* truths one \nholds are universal and absolute. And the problem I see with this is \nthat it negates the individuality of humans and their relationships with\nGod. This does not mean there is no absolute truth; just that some areas\nof doctrinal disagreement may be areas where God has not established or \nrevealed that truth. \n\n-- \ncomments, criticism welcome...\n-Ken\nalvin@ucsu.colorado.edu", "\nAn interesting interpretation of Revelation 17 and 18 has been given by \nevangelist David Wilkerson. I am not saying that I totally agree with his \ninterpretation, but it is certainly believable and good food for thought. He \ninterprets the Babylon of Revelation 17-18 as being none other than the good \nold U. S. of A. That's right, America. He supports his claim in several ways. \nThe Babylon of Revelation is THE world leader in trade and commerce, and the \nWHOLE WORLD wept when Babylon fell. The American dollar, despite the Japanese \nsuccess of the 20th century, is STILL the most sought after currency in the \nworld. If the U.S. were destroyed, wouldn't the whole world mourn? The bible \nalso talks about Babylon being a home of harlots, sin, and adultery (I am \nparaphrasing, of course). Babylon's sin affected, or should I say, infected, \nthe whole world. It doesn't take much looking to see that the U.S. is in a \nstate of moral decay. Hasn't the American culture and Hollywood spread the \"do \nit if it feels good\" mentality all over the world. I think, though, that what \nMr. Wilkerson uses as his strongest argument is the fact that Revelation calls \nBabylon \"Babylon the Great\" and portrays it as the most powerful nation on \nearth. No matter how dissatisfied you are with the state of our country, I \ndon't think you would have too much trouble agreeing that the U.S. is STILL the \nmost powerful nation on earth.\n\nAgain, this interpretation is not NECESSARILY my own, but I do find it worthy \nof consideration.", "\nI would like to see his reasoning behind this. You may have gotten \n\"burned\" by natural disaster prophecies down there, but that\ndoes not mean that every natural disaster/judgement prophecy is\nfalse. Take a quick look at the book of Jeremiah and it is obvious\nthat judgement prophecies can be valid. here in the US, it seems like\nwe might have more of a problem with positive prophecies, though I\nam sure there may be a few people who are too into judgement.\n\nSometimes God does give words that are difficult to swallow. The\nrelative positiveness of a prophecy is not necesarily grounds to\ndismiss it. Much of the OT is not happy stuff.", "Adam, I just finished a study on this, not only looking at the\nprophecies themselves, but where they were fulfilled. While going only\nthrough the OT, I found 508 references. After starting to show their\nfulfillment, I found out that I had missed some, so needless to say I\ncannot post them here. However, the study I did I intend to publish (I\nam in the process of organizing and showing the fulfillments, then I\nwill be ready to write and send it to a publisher). With any luck\n(and/or free time) I should have it finally done sometime around\nSeptember (I hope).", "\nI would put it stronger than that. I consider it nonsense.\n\nSimply put, I do not see any way that a \"Platonic essence\" could have\nany *real* existance. \"Essence\" in the Platonic sense does not have\nany referent as far as I can tell - it is just an imaginary concept\ninvented to provide an explanation for things better explained in\nother ways.\n\nSo, to attribute an 'essence' to God is to attribute to him something that\ndoes not exist!! Thus the orthodox Platonic formulation seems to leave\nthe unity of God in limbo, since it is based on a non-existant 'essence',\nthus failing to avoid the very problem it was supposed to address.\n\nThus, to me, the unity of God must be primary, and the triality must be\nsecondary, must be modal or aspectual (relating to roles, or to modes\nof interaction), since otherwise there is no meaning to saying God is one.\n\n-- \nsarima@teradata.com\t\t\t(formerly tdatirv!sarima)\n or\nStanley.Friesen@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com", "\nI agree, which is why I've asked for help with it.\n\nThe reason I'm working on this list is because I've recently had one\ntoo many Christians tell me \"the Bible contains no contradictions\nwhatsoever.\" They believe that it's true, and that it describes\nreality perfectly, and even predicts history before it happens.\n\nBefore I can carry on any sort of meaningful conversation with these\npeople, I've got to SHOW them, with concrete evidence, that the Bible\nis not nearly as airtight as they thought. I hope to do that with\nthis list.\n\nSpecifically: when I bring up the fact that Genesis contains two\ncontradictory creation stories, I usually get blank stares or flat\ndenials. I've never had a fundamentalist acknowledge that there are\nindeed two different accounts of creation.\n", "\n: The Bible says there is a God; if that is true then our atheism is\n: mistaken. What of it? Seems pretty obvious to me. Socrates said\n: there were many gods; if that is true then your monotheism (and our\n: atheism) is mistaken, even if Socrates never existed.\n\n\nJim,\n\nI think you must have come in late. The discussion (on my part at\nleast) began with Benedikt's questioning of the historical acuuracy of\nthe NT. I was making the point that, if the same standards are used to\nvalidate secular history that are used here to discredit NT history,\nthen virtually nothing is known of the first century.\n\nYou seem to be saying that the Bible -cannot- be true because it\nspeaks of the existence of God as it it were a fact. Your objection\nhas nothing to do with history, it is merely another statement of\natheism.", "\n\nYou know, everybody scoffed at that guy they hung up on a cross too.\nHe claimed also to be the son of God; and it took almost two thousand \nyears to forget what he preached.\n\n\tLove thy neighbor as thyself.\n\n\nAnybody else wonder if those two guys setting the fires were 'agent \nprovacateurs.'\n\n", "\n\n\n\n\tWhoah whoah whoah WHOAH!!! What?!?\n\n\tThat last paragraph just about killed me. The Deuterocanonicals have\n\tALWAYS been accepted as inspired scripture by the Catholic Church,\n\twhich has existed much longer than any Protestant Church out there.\n\tIt was Martin Luther who began hacking up the bible and deciding to\n\tREMOVE certain books--not the fact that the Catholic Church decided\n\tto add some much later--that is the reason for the difference between\n\t\"Catholic\" and \"Protestant\" bibles. ", "Conviction of Sin\n\n\t\tA meta-exegetical or methodological essay\n\n\n\n\nI look forward to reading it. When I got to the library last week, it\nwas with the object in view to look at some articles that have appeared\nover the last few years, since my previous look at the literature. Un-\nfortunately, they had moved the journal back-issues, so I didn't get a\nlook at the articles I was hoping to find. I will continue to reserve\nmy own judgment on _arsenokoitai_ until I have seen the latest scholarly\nwork, and I can hope that REXLEX's posting may give some meat to chew on.\n\nHowever, what I *can* do now, is to point out the methodological issues\n-- what needs to be shown for anything to be concluded in this matter.\nIf the article REXLEX posts addresses these issues, so much the better;\nif not, you will perhaps understand why the problem is hard.\n\n\nwrites, _in abstractu_:\n\n\n\t[it is only a minor point, but let me make it anyway; De Young has\n\talready contradicted his own prior assertion in this abstract that\n\tthe ancient analysis of these issues was concerned with actions and\n\tNOT with orientation. I doubt this will have much bearing on the\n\tarticle as such, but thought I should point it out from the start.]\n\nThe hypothesis De Young is advancing is that Paul a) coined the word and\nb) his intended meaning for it was in reference to the Levitical law. The\nquestions I wish to raise are\n\n\t1.) how would one go about confirming the truth of this hypothesis?\nand\t2.) what follows if one accepts (or stipulates, for the sake of the\n\t discussion) that it is correct?\n\nNote that b) is independent of a); I consider b) far more plausible than a),\nwhich seems merely to be a counsel of despair over finding nothing in the\nliterature contemporary with Paul to clarify this word. So far as I know,\nPaul does NOT in general invent words anywhere else in his letters. Unless\nyou have an otherwise-established pattern of coinages, it is *not* sound\nmethodology to assume it -- particularly if he gives no hint in the immedi-\nate text to \"fix\" the coinage's meaning for his audience.\n\nAs yet, the extract presents no evidence at all. What do we need to confirm\nor reject the hypothesis? (which, I should say at the outset, I find somewhat\nplausible; I certainly know of nothing which makes it an *impossible* way\nof construing this problem passage.) I'm going to set aside for the moment\nthe question of whether Paul might have coined this usage, to look at the\nmore tractable question of what it means. For this there are, in principle,\ntwo kinds of evidence that can be adduced, internal and external. That is,\nwe can look at the text of Paul's letter for clarification or look outside\nthat to prior or contemporary writings that Paul might have relied on, or to\nderivative writings that have some claim of access to Paul's meaning.\n\nThe single WORST problem with this word in Corinthians is that there IS no\ninternal evidence for Paul's meaning. He uses the word totally without an\nexplanation or hint as to his meaning, save that its inclusion in a list of\nnegatives implies that it has for him SOME negative meaning.\n\nWe are left, as the only \"internal\" clue, with the etymology or formation\nof the word -- which is indeed the reason that De Young (and others before\nhim) have associated it with the Leviticus prohibition of men VERBing with\nother men, where VERB is some standard euphemism for having sex (\"lie\" in\nLeviticus, \"bed\" in Greek). One problem is that \"bedders\" (_-koitai_) is\nnot, as far as I know, USED that way in Greek. THEREFORE, I offer one\nserious test which de Young's hypothesis *must* pass or be rejected:\n\n\to find a body of Greek texts contemporary with Paul (or not much\n\t prior to his day) such that the _X-koitai_ formation implies\n\t \"men who have sex with X\" [obviously, the \"best case\" is to\n\t find such usages of _arsenokoitai_ itself.]\n\nsuch texts would be confirmation that the word *can* be read that way.\nIt is worth emphasizing that compound words are NOT in general under-\nstandable by projecting what the READER may imagine by the juxtaposition\nof the roots. Existence of such parallels doesn't *prove* the hypothesis\ncorrect -- but it goes a long way towards making such a usage (whether or\nnot original with Paul in the specific case of X == _arse:n_) possible\nof comprehension by his readers.\n\nMy \"test\" moves in the direction of external evidence. If Paul does NOT\nin his text explain his word (and he does not), then he has to expect his\nreaders to already know the word (which stands against its being a coinage)\nor to expect that it mimics word formations that they *do* know, such that\nthey can guess his meaning without too much floundering.\n\nExternal evidence, that is, texts other than Paul's own and lexicographic\nor social/historical considerations that might be adduced, then come into\nthe picture. *If* there are other uses of the word, not dependent on Paul,\nwhich *have* sufficient internal (contextual) evidence -- or some gloss by\na contemporary scribe -- to show a derogatory reference to male homosexu-\nality, or similar _-koitai_ formations used in similar ways, *then* one\nhas grounds for\n\n\to denying that Paul coined the word\nand\to assuming that his readers might understand his meaning\n\nDo you see the problem? If Paul coined the word, then he REQUIRES his\nreaders to share enough context with him to COMPREHEND his coinage and\nits intent -- in this case that they would (stipulating De Young's guess)\nunderstand him to be referring to the Levitical \"universal\" prohibition\nof male-male sex (this, mind you, in a context where Paul has emphasized\nat least to OTHER congregations (and so one assumes to the Corinthians --\nhow else to explain 1 Cor. 6:12, and the Corinthians having to be pulled\nback from overinterpreting their freedom?) the NON applicability of Torah\nlaw to his gentile converts!)\n\nAmong the considerations that make it implausible for Paul to have coined\nthe word, its first element is archaic -- _arse:n_ is an old Attic or\nIonic form of what in even classical (let alone koine) times would be\nassimilated as _arre:n_. To me, this implies that we are even more than\nusually needful of external evidence to pin down meaning and usage. What\nis Paul doing inventing a word in obsolete Attic formation?\n\nAnd if he *didn't* coin the word, but picked it up like the others in\nhis list as common terms of derogation, then his meaning will be -- for\nhis readers -- constrained by that common meaning (since he gives no\nother.)\n\nI cannot emphasize enough that Paul DOES NOT TELL US what he means by\nthis word. We (and his original readers) are guessing. They, at least,\nhad a contemporary context -- and maybe Paul had used this very word and\nexplained it in great detail to them in person. But we have no trace of\nevidence of that, and to *suppose* it is mere fantasy.\n\nSo -- we are *desperately* in need of external evidence about this word.\nAnd it seems to be exceptionally meagre. That is precisely the problem.\nI can think of several more or less equally plausible hypotheses about\nthe word:\n\n\ta) it was a standard gutter term of abuse for (some or all, maybe\n\t very specific, maybe very general) homosexual male activities\n\n\tb) it was a term of abuse used by Jews about the awful homosexual\n\t Greeks (which may or may not be consciously associated on their\n\t part with the Leviticus passage)\n\n\tc) Paul invented the term -- and again there may or may not be an\n\t association with Leviticus in his doing so. He may or may not\n\t intend the word to have an explicit and universal application\n\t with absolute and clear boundaries. [Since none of his OTHER\n\t words in that list have such character, this last seems to me\n\t about the *least* plausible of the hypotheses I'm advancing.]\n\nOf these, I'd say off the top of my head that a) is most plausible -- but\nI still have reservations about that, too.\n\nIf the word NEVER appears before Paul, and in later uses has some evidence\nof depending on Paul, then one can opt for Paul's coining it. If it does\nappear before him, he might *still* have coined it being unaware of prior\nuse (in which case, his coinage is inherently confusing!) but one should\nnormally demote c) on the basis of any earlier uses (especially if they\ncan be shown to have been at all common in the places Paul traveled.) In\neither of the a) or b) cases, one has to take into account Paul's relation\nto the community of usage he picked the word up from -- and whether it be\nfrom the Greek or Jewish communities, Paul's relations are hardly straight-\nforward!\n\nThere is, so far as I have yet seen, little or no external evidence to aid\nus in selecting one of these (or some other) hypothesis. Your guess is as\ngood as mine (or maybe worse or maybe better, depending on a lot of things).\nBut it remains -- so far -- guesswork. And I don't know about you, but I\nfor one WILL NOT equate human guesswork with the will of God. By all means\nbe convinced in your own conscience about what Paul is getting at -- as he\nsays elsewhere on what was in HIS day a major controversy of somewhat this\nsame character (Romans 14:22-23)\n\n\t\"Hold on to your own belief, as between yourself and God -- and\n\tconsider the man fortunate who can make his decision without going\n\tagainst his conscience. But anybody who eats in a state of doubt\n\tis condemned, because he is not in good faith, and every act done\n\tin bad faith is a sin.\"\n\nFor my part, I cannot see any way to resolve Paul's meaning in the use of\n_arsenokoitai_ without directly applicable external evidence -- and by\nthe nature of such external evidence, it will never reach to certainty\nof constraining Paul's own intent. Paul, like Humpty Dumpty (and me, and\nall the rest of us) *will* use words in ways that are personal choices --\nand sometimes leave his readers puzzled. If that puzzlement leads you\nto God, it may be blessed -- if it should lead away (as some of Paul's\nwords HAVE led some people), then Paul's intense communicative effort to\ncontrive his meaning in our souls may have some regretable consequences.\nI have always found Paul to be a fantastically reliable guide -- if I\nread him \"in the large\", if I can see him lay out his position in detail\nand hammer it home time and time again. I am much less certain about his\nmeaning in his many brief and cryptic passages (such as this one.)\n\nIn my usual discursive way, I have gone on at great length about the first\nof my intended meta-exegetical points -- what would be needed to confirm\nthat Paul a) coined or b) in any case meant the word to mean the same as\nthe Leviticus prohibition. My second point is to *stipulate* this hypo-\nthesis, and follow up what it implies for both his initial readers and\nfor later Christians. Given my verbosity, this will be tomorrow night's\nmeditation :-)", "[ deleted ]\n[ deleted ]\n\n Evolution is both fact and theory. The THEORY of evolution represents the\nscientific attempt to explain the FACT of evolution. The theory of evolution\ndoes not provide facts; it explains facts. It can be safely assumed that ALL\nscientific theories neither provide nor become facts but rather EXPLAIN facts.\nI recommend that you do some appropriate reading in general science. A good\nstarting point with regard to evolution for the layman would be \"Evolution as\nFact and Theory\" in \"Hen's Teeth and Horse's Toes\" [pp 253-262] by Stephen Jay\nGould. There is a great deal of other useful information in this publication.\n", "\n: Are you saying that their was a physical Adam and Eve, and that all humans are direct decendents of only these two human beings.? Then who were Cain and Able's wives? Couldn't be their sisters, because A&E didn't have daughters. Were they non-humans?\n\nOkay all humans are direct descendents of of a bunch of hopeful\nmonsters. The human race didn't evolve from one set parents, but from\nthousands. Do you really base your atheist on -this-?\n\n: Considering that something like 4 out of 5 humans on this planet don't know instinctively that the Christian god exist, the claim of instinctive knowledge doesn't look like it hold much water. Or are you saying that the 4 billion non-Christians in the world must fight this instinctive urge to acknowledge God and JC.\n\nDid I say that people were Christians by nature or did I say that\nChristians hold that everyone knows of the God the Christians worship.\nI would have thought the distinction obvious, sorry. Read my post\nagain and see what I -really- said; from what you've written, I think\nyou are just being agumentative. Also your word-wrap is screwed up or\nyou need to shift to 80 columns text ...", "I have enrolled in \"The History of Christianity\" at a college here in\nSt. Louis. The teacher of the class is what I consider to be\nclosed-minded and bigotted on the subject of what the definition of\nChristianity is. His definition is tied directly to that of the\nTrinity and the Catholic church's definition of it and belief in\nJesus Christ is not sufficient to call one's self a Christian.\n\nWhile his saying it doesn't make it so, I nevertheless feel insulted\n(or am I just neurotic? :^) ). I would like to be able to respond to\nhim with some sense of literacy while maintaining an amiable\nstudent-teacher relationship.\n\nSo, is there common definition of what Christianity is? As the\nprevious discussion of the Trinity did not lend itself to an exchange\nof flames, I am hopeful that this will also not produce major\nflames.\n\nRegards,\n--\nLarry Autry\nSilicon Graphics, St. Louis\nautry@sgi.com \n\n\n\n[Often we get into discussions about who is Christian. Unfortunately\nthere are a number of possible definitions. Starting from the \nbroadest, commonly used definitions are:\n\n a historical definition\n people who accept Christ as Lord and savior\n a broad doctrinal definition\n narrow doctrinal definitions\n\n1) By a historical definition I mean the sort of definition a secular\nhistorian would likely use. This would include any group that\ndeveloped out of the Christian church, and continues within the same\nbroad culture. E.g. some Unitarians would fail just about any\ndoctrinal test you could come up with. Yet it's clear that that group\ndeveloped from Christianity, and people from very different\nbackgrounds (e.g. Hindus) would likely see them as part of\nChristianity. This is not a definition most Christians like, but it's\nrelevant in some political and ethnic contexts.\n\n2) Accepting Christ as Lord and savior is a test used by many\nChristian groups for membership, e.g. the Southern Baptists and\nPresbyterian Church (USA). I would qualify it by saying that what\nmost people have in mind is an exclusive commitment to Christ, so that\nsomeone who accepted Christ as one of many gods would not fit. It's\nan attempt to formulate a criterion that is religious but is not based\non technical doctrine. By this definition, groups such as Arians\nwould be viewed as heretical Christians, but still Christians. In the\nmodern context this would include Mormons, JW's, and \"oneness\nPentecostals\". They would be viewed as heretical Christians, but\nstill Christian. In practice I believe just about everyone who falls\ninto this category would accept the Apostle's Creed.\n\n3) The next level is an attempt to give a broad doctrinal definition,\nwhich includes all of the major strands of Christianity, but excludes\ngroups that are felt to be outside \"historic Christianity.\" This is\nof course a slippery enterprise, since Catholics could argue that\nProtestants are outside historic Christianity, etc. But I think the\nmost commonly accepted definition would be based on something like the\nNicene Creed and the Formula of Chalcedon. The attempt is to\ncharacterize doctrines that all major strands of Christianity agree\nare key. Obviously this is to some extent a matter of judgement. A\nMormon will regard the LDS church as a major strand, and thus will not\nwant to include anything that contradicts their beliefs. But I think\nthis definition would have fairly broad acceptance.\n\n4) Finally, some people use definitions that I would say are limited\nto a specific Christian tradition. E.g. some evangelicals only\nconsider someone Christian if he has had an evangelical-style\nconversion experience, and some I've even heard of groups that limit\nit to their specific church.\n\nI think you can find contexts where each of these definitions is used.\nA lot is going to depend upon the purpose you're using it for. If\nyou're using it descriptively, e.g. in history or anthropology, you'll\nprobably use definition 1 or 2. If you're using it normatively, i.e.\nto say what you believe the Christian message is, you'll probably use\na definition like 3 or even 4.", "\n\nI find this argument very strange, though not unfamiliar.\n\nAn analogy someone used a while back can perhaps illustrate it.\n\nSay, for example, there are people living on a volcanic island, and a group \nof geologists determine that a volcano is imminent. They warn the people on \nthe island that they are in danger, and should leave. A group of people on \nthe island is given the task of warning others of the danger.\n\nThey believe the danger is real, but others may not. \n\nDoes that mean that the first group are NECESSARILY arrogant in warning \nothers of the danger? Does it mean that they are saying that their beliefs \nare correct, and all others are false?\n\nSome might indeed react to opposition with arrogance, and behave in an \narrogant manner, but that is a personal idiocyncracy. It does not \nnecessarily mean that they are all arrogant.\n", "[does he believe in predestination]\n\nreally? you may be right, but i'd like proof. as far as i know (and\ni am not a div school student!) the catholic church does not seem to\naccept predestination. my chaplain told me \"beware of greeks bearing\ngifts\" with reference to this doctrine: it seems to have the curious\nresult that human beings are not held responsible for their own\nactions! i'll answer how you deal with this in a minute.\n\n\nright. that doesn't really seem like predestination to me, but i'll\ncontinue with what you're saying....\n\n\nthis is really confusing to me, especially since i still believe that\nchrist jesus died for ALL of us. preknowledge of obstinacy seems\nlike an awfully convoluted way to account for a couple of verses. but\nthen, i am not really biblically supported in this opinion -- or am i?\nothers?\n\n\nso God uses grace like margarine: he only spreads it where it's needed\nand not where it isn't? and so there are the saved and the not-saved,\nand nothing in between. hmmmm.\n\n\nalthough i realize this doctrine was not originally intended to cause\nsocial problems, it ends up doing just that -- if there is supposed to\nbe some sort of \"sign\" that someone is elect, like lots of children or\nsuccess at work, then those who have a good life on earth will go\naround thinking that those who don't are doomed to hell.\n\nin a way, though, this sounds like the opposite idea -- those doomed\nto hell will have a great life on earth. that's almost like the\nconverse of what i believe -- responsibility for what we do now will\nbe punished after we die. you're saying what we get after we die has\na direct bearing on how we live now? strange....\n \n\nso sin is either punished now or later -- and not both? what if it's\n sort of half-punished? are there any grey areas in this doctrine?\n\n [my stuff deleted]\n >We should stop the slaughter of the innocent (cf Proverbs 24.11-12), but\n >does that mean that Christians should support a war in Bosnia with the\n >U.S. or even the U.N. involved? I do not think so, but I am an\n >isolationist, and disagree with foreign adventures in general. But in\n >the case of Bosnia, I frankly see no excuse for us getting militarily\n >involved, it would not be a \"just war.\" \"Blessed\" after all, \"are the\n >peacemakers\" was what Our Lord said, not the interventionists. Our\n >actions in Bosnia must be for peace, and not for a war which is\n >unrelated to anything to justify it for us.\n\n the idea (well, my idea) would be that you would intervene to\n establish peace and stop the atrocities. i'm not suggesting wwIII. i\n don't really understand what you mean by a \"just war\". of course i am\n not an isolationist, although i see some merit in not jumping in at\n the first opportunity (can you say kuwait?). we happen to be a big\n country with a lot of resources (as well as a lot of debt), and this\n gives us some responsibility in the world, whether we like it or not.\n flashbacks of wwII, as well as vietnam, should be haunting us.\n\n yet another difference of opinion. so be it.\n\n >Andy Byler\n\n thank you for answering; i hope you don't take any of my comments as\n flames, but instead as expressions of interest.", "A section of Richard Badenas' book, \"Christ The End of the Law, Romans 10.14 \nin Pauline Perspective.\" The section I have is on the Contextual setting and \nmeaning of Romans 9-11. In addition, there are 111 endnotes.\n\nSince the file is so long, and because of other reasons, I will take requests\nfor the article personally.\n\nOf course, I believe Badenas' insights to be true, and, quite damaging to the\ntraditional Augustinian/Calvinist view.", "I wasn't sure if this was the right newsgroup to post this to, but I guess\nthe misc is there for a reason. Here goes... I am getting married in June to \na devout (Wisconsin Synod) Lutheran. I would classify myself as a strong \nagnostic/weak athiest. This has been a a subject of many discussions between\nus and is really our only real obstacle. We don't have any real difficulties \nwith the religious differences yet, but I expect they will pop up when we have \nchildren. I have agreed to raise the\nchildren \"nominally\" Lutheran. That is, Lutheran traditions, but trying to\nkeep an open mind. I am not sure if this is even possible though. I feel that\nthat the worst quality of being devoutly religous is the lack of an open mind.\n\n Anyway, I guess I'll get on with my question. Is anyone in the same \nsituation and can give some suggestions as to how to deal with this? We've \ntaken the attitude so far of just talking about it a lot and not letting \nanything get bottled up inside. Sometimes I get the feeling we're making this \nmuch bigger than it actually is. Any comments would be greatly appreciated. \nAlso, please e-mail responses since I don't get a chance to read this group\noften. :-(", "\nYes, and what about Paul saying:\n\n26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:\n(Ephesians 4:26).\n\nObviously then, we can be angry w/o sinning.\n\nJon\n\n------------------------------------------------\nJon Ogden - jono@mac-ak-24.rtsg.mot.com\nMotorola Cellular - Advanced Products Division\nVoice: 708-632-2521 Data: 708-632-6086\n------------------------------------------------", "\n\nIsn't that interesting?! In the Jewish tradition you are incredibly\nwrong! They originate in the Torah and with Jewish ancestors,\nspecifically the Patriarch Abraham (z\"l). That knowledge was sent East\nto India and China when Abraham gave \"gifts\" (the commentators to Jewish\nscripture say this was the knowledge of the occult arts) to all the rest\nof his children when he sent them away to the East. This assured that\nIsaac only, who remained with Abraham, would inherit his most important\nspiritual gifts, what eventually became Judaism.\n\nSo you see, other religions can have very parochial views too. By the\nJewish view, you are very mistaken, your scripture are not scripture,\nyour gods are not gods, your practices a jumble of errors that lead\npeople to idol worship and away from God. That doesn't stop us from\nrespecting you to the extent of not trying to convert you or proselytize\nyou and being willing to dialog in a respectful manner. We're content\nto let you live the way you care to live as long as you leave us be. We\nare happy to co-exist as long as you give us the same right.\n\nBut your incredible rudeness and violent nature seems to preclude that.\nToo bad. Is this typical of your religion?\n\n\nYou are a most presumptuous fellow! How dare you presume that the\n\"typical\" New Ager doesn't acknowledge God and is selfish. What trite,\nself-righteous, ego-ful garbage! There are Buddhists, Christians, Jews,\nand those of many other religions here on this newsgroups for whom your\nwords are simple slander.\n\n\nOf course, from the Jewish perspective you are incredibly wrong. We'd\nsay that there is no \"godhead\" -- just created beings who may be\nenjoying a good laugh at your expense.\n\n\nSo not only are we selfish, we are also thieves and liars! And you\nexpect any of us to pay attention to you and your \"religion?\" Why not\ncall us more name? Maybe then we'll all convert in gratefullness!\n\n\nYou delude yourself.\n", "Archive-name: atheism/resources\nAlt-atheism-archive-name: resources\nLast-modified: 11 December 1992\nVersion: 1.0\n\n Atheist Resources\n\n Addresses of Atheist Organizations\n\n USA\n\nFREEDOM FROM RELIGION FOUNDATION\n\nDarwin fish bumper stickers and assorted other atheist paraphernalia are\navailable from the Freedom From Religion Foundation in the US.\n\nWrite to: FFRF, P.O. Box 750, Madison, WI 53701.\nTelephone: (608) 256-8900\n\nEVOLUTION DESIGNS\n\nEvolution Designs sell the \"Darwin fish\". It's a fish symbol, like the ones\nChristians stick on their cars, but with feet and the word \"Darwin\" written\ninside. The deluxe moulded 3D plastic fish is $4.95 postpaid in the US.\n\nWrite to: Evolution Designs, 7119 Laurel Canyon #4, North Hollywood,\n CA 91605.\n\nPeople in the San Francisco Bay area can get Darwin Fish from Lynn Gold --\ntry mailing . For net people who go to Lynn directly, the\nprice is $4.95 per fish.\n\nAMERICAN ATHEIST PRESS\n\nAAP publish various atheist books -- critiques of the Bible, lists of\nBiblical contradictions, and so on. One such book is:\n\n\"The Bible Handbook\" by W.P. Ball and G.W. Foote. American Atheist Press.\n372 pp. ISBN 0-910309-26-4, 2nd edition, 1986. Bible contradictions,\nabsurdities, atrocities, immoralities... contains Ball, Foote: \"The Bible\nContradicts Itself\", AAP. Based on the King James version of the Bible.\n\nWrite to: American Atheist Press, P.O. Box 140195, Austin, TX 78714-0195.\n or: 7215 Cameron Road, Austin, TX 78752-2973.\nTelephone: (512) 458-1244\nFax: (512) 467-9525\n\nPROMETHEUS BOOKS\n\nSell books including Haught's \"Holy Horrors\" (see below).\n\nWrite to: 700 East Amherst Street, Buffalo, New York 14215.\nTelephone: (716) 837-2475.\n\nAn alternate address (which may be newer or older) is:\nPrometheus Books, 59 Glenn Drive, Buffalo, NY 14228-2197.\n\nAFRICAN-AMERICANS FOR HUMANISM\n\nAn organization promoting black secular humanism and uncovering the history of\nblack freethought. They publish a quarterly newsletter, AAH EXAMINER.\n\nWrite to: Norm R. Allen, Jr., African Americans for Humanism, P.O. Box 664,\n Buffalo, NY 14226.\n\n United Kingdom\n\nRationalist Press Association National Secular Society\n88 Islington High Street 702 Holloway Road\nLondon N1 8EW London N19 3NL\n071 226 7251 071 272 1266\n\nBritish Humanist Association South Place Ethical Society\n14 Lamb's Conduit Passage Conway Hall\nLondon WC1R 4RH Red Lion Square\n071 430 0908 London WC1R 4RL\nfax 071 430 1271 071 831 7723\n\nThe National Secular Society publish \"The Freethinker\", a monthly magazine\nfounded in 1881.\n\n Germany\n\nIBKA e.V.\nInternationaler Bund der Konfessionslosen und Atheisten\nPostfach 880, D-1000 Berlin 41. Germany.\n\nIBKA publish a journal:\nMIZ. (Materialien und Informationen zur Zeit. Politisches\nJournal der Konfessionslosesn und Atheisten. Hrsg. IBKA e.V.)\nMIZ-Vertrieb, Postfach 880, D-1000 Berlin 41. Germany.\n\nFor atheist books, write to:\n\nIBDK, Internationaler B\"ucherdienst der Konfessionslosen\nPostfach 3005, D-3000 Hannover 1. Germany.\nTelephone: 0511/211216\n\n\n Books -- Fiction\n\nTHOMAS M. DISCH\n\n\"The Santa Claus Compromise\"\nShort story. The ultimate proof that Santa exists. All characters and \nevents are fictitious. Any similarity to living or dead gods -- uh, well...\n\nWALTER M. MILLER, JR\n\n\"A Canticle for Leibowitz\"\nOne gem in this post atomic doomsday novel is the monks who spent their lives\ncopying blueprints from \"Saint Leibowitz\", filling the sheets of paper with\nink and leaving white lines and letters.\n\nEDGAR PANGBORN\n\n\"Davy\"\nPost atomic doomsday novel set in clerical states. The church, for example,\nforbids that anyone \"produce, describe or use any substance containing...\natoms\". \n\nPHILIP K. DICK\n\nPhilip K. Dick Dick wrote many philosophical and thought-provoking short \nstories and novels. His stories are bizarre at times, but very approachable.\nHe wrote mainly SF, but he wrote about people, truth and religion rather than\ntechnology. Although he often believed that he had met some sort of God, he\nremained sceptical. Amongst his novels, the following are of some relevance:\n\n\"Galactic Pot-Healer\"\nA fallible alien deity summons a group of Earth craftsmen and women to a\nremote planet to raise a giant cathedral from beneath the oceans. When the\ndeity begins to demand faith from the earthers, pot-healer Joe Fernwright is\nunable to comply. A polished, ironic and amusing novel.\n\n\"A Maze of Death\"\nNoteworthy for its description of a technology-based religion.\n\n\"VALIS\"\nThe schizophrenic hero searches for the hidden mysteries of Gnostic\nChristianity after reality is fired into his brain by a pink laser beam of\nunknown but possibly divine origin. He is accompanied by his dogmatic and\ndismissively atheist friend and assorted other odd characters.\n\n\"The Divine Invasion\"\nGod invades Earth by making a young woman pregnant as she returns from\nanother star system. Unfortunately she is terminally ill, and must be\nassisted by a dead man whose brain is wired to 24-hour easy listening music.\n\nMARGARET ATWOOD\n\n\"The Handmaid's Tale\"\nA story based on the premise that the US Congress is mysteriously\nassassinated, and fundamentalists quickly take charge of the nation to set it\n\"right\" again. The book is the diary of a woman's life as she tries to live\nunder the new Christian theocracy. Women's right to own property is revoked,\nand their bank accounts are closed; sinful luxuries are outlawed, and the\nradio is only used for readings from the Bible. Crimes are punished\nretroactively: doctors who performed legal abortions in the \"old world\" are\nhunted down and hanged. Atwood's writing style is difficult to get used to\nat first, but the tale grows more and more chilling as it goes on.\n\nVARIOUS AUTHORS\n\n\"The Bible\"\nThis somewhat dull and rambling work has often been criticized. However, it\nis probably worth reading, if only so that you'll know what all the fuss is\nabout. It exists in many different versions, so make sure you get the one\ntrue version.\n\n Books -- Non-fiction\n\nPETER DE ROSA\n\n\"Vicars of Christ\", Bantam Press, 1988\nAlthough de Rosa seems to be Christian or even Catholic this is a very\nenlighting history of papal immoralities, adulteries, fallacies etc.\n(German translation: \"Gottes erste Diener. Die dunkle Seite des Papsttums\",\nDroemer-Knaur, 1989)\n\nMICHAEL MARTIN\n\n\"Atheism: A Philosophical Justification\", Temple University Press,\n Philadelphia, USA.\nA detailed and scholarly justification of atheism. Contains an outstanding\nappendix defining terminology and usage in this (necessarily) tendentious\narea. Argues both for \"negative atheism\" (i.e. the \"non-belief in the\nexistence of god(s)\") and also for \"positive atheism\" (\"the belief in the\nnon-existence of god(s)\"). Includes great refutations of the most\nchallenging arguments for god; particular attention is paid to refuting\ncontempory theists such as Platinga and Swinburne.\n541 pages. ISBN 0-87722-642-3 (hardcover; paperback also available)\n\n\"The Case Against Christianity\", Temple University Press\nA comprehensive critique of Christianity, in which he considers\nthe best contemporary defences of Christianity and (ultimately)\ndemonstrates that they are unsupportable and/or incoherent.\n273 pages. ISBN 0-87722-767-5\n\nJAMES TURNER\n\n\"Without God, Without Creed\", The Johns Hopkins University Press, Baltimore,\n MD, USA\nSubtitled \"The Origins of Unbelief in America\". Examines the way in which\nunbelief (whether agnostic or atheistic) became a mainstream alternative\nworld-view. Focusses on the period 1770-1900, and while considering France\nand Britain the emphasis is on American, and particularly New England\ndevelopments. \"Neither a religious history of secularization or atheism,\nWithout God, Without Creed is, rather, the intellectual history of the fate\nof a single idea, the belief that God exists.\" \n316 pages. ISBN (hardcover) 0-8018-2494-X (paper) 0-8018-3407-4\n\nGEORGE SELDES (Editor)\n\n\"The great thoughts\", Ballantine Books, New York, USA\nA \"dictionary of quotations\" of a different kind, concentrating on statements\nand writings which, explicitly or implicitly, present the person's philosophy\nand world-view. Includes obscure (and often suppressed) opinions from many\npeople. For some popular observations, traces the way in which various\npeople expressed and twisted the idea over the centuries. Quite a number of\nthe quotations are derived from Cardiff's \"What Great Men Think of Religion\"\nand Noyes' \"Views of Religion\".\n490 pages. ISBN (paper) 0-345-29887-X.\n\nRICHARD SWINBURNE\n\n\"The Existence of God (Revised Edition)\", Clarendon Paperbacks, Oxford\nThis book is the second volume in a trilogy that began with \"The Coherence of\nTheism\" (1977) and was concluded with \"Faith and Reason\" (1981). In this\nwork, Swinburne attempts to construct a series of inductive arguments for the\nexistence of God. His arguments, which are somewhat tendentious and rely\nupon the imputation of late 20th century western Christian values and\naesthetics to a God which is supposedly as simple as can be conceived, were\ndecisively rejected in Mackie's \"The Miracle of Theism\". In the revised\nedition of \"The Existence of God\", Swinburne includes an Appendix in which he\nmakes a somewhat incoherent attempt to rebut Mackie.\n\nJ. L. MACKIE\n\n\"The Miracle of Theism\", Oxford\nThis (posthumous) volume contains a comprehensive review of the principal\narguments for and against the existence of God. It ranges from the classical\nphilosophical positions of Descartes, Anselm, Berkeley, Hume et al, through\nthe moral arguments of Newman, Kant and Sidgwick, to the recent restatements\nof the classical theses by Plantinga and Swinburne. It also addresses those\npositions which push the concept of God beyond the realm of the rational,\nsuch as those of Kierkegaard, Kung and Philips, as well as \"replacements for\nGod\" such as Lelie's axiarchism. The book is a delight to read - less\nformalistic and better written than Martin's works, and refreshingly direct\nwhen compared with the hand-waving of Swinburne.\n\nJAMES A. HAUGHT\n\n\"Holy Horrors: An Illustrated History of Religious Murder and Madness\",\n Prometheus Books\nLooks at religious persecution from ancient times to the present day -- and\nnot only by Christians.\nLibrary of Congress Catalog Card Number 89-64079. 1990.\n\nNORM R. ALLEN, JR.\n\n\"African American Humanism: an Anthology\"\nSee the listing for African Americans for Humanism above.\n\nGORDON STEIN\n\n\"An Anthology of Atheism and Rationalism\", Prometheus Books\nAn anthology covering a wide range of subjects, including 'The Devil, Evil\nand Morality' and 'The History of Freethought'. Comprehensive bibliography.\n\nEDMUND D. COHEN\n\n\"The Mind of The Bible-Believer\", Prometheus Books\nA study of why people become Christian fundamentalists, and what effect it\nhas on them.\n\n Net Resources\n\nThere's a small mail-based archive server at mantis.co.uk which carries\narchives of old alt.atheism.moderated articles and assorted other files. For\nmore information, send mail to archive-server@mantis.co.uk saying\n\n help\n send atheism/index\n\nand it will mail back a reply.\n", "I would like the opinion of netters on a subject that has been bothering my\nwife and me lately: liturgy, in particular, Catholic liturgy. In the last few\nyears it seems that there are more and more ad hoc events during Mass. It's\ndriving me crazy! The most grace-filled aspect of a liturgical tradition is\nthat what happens is something we _all_ do together, because we all know how to \ndo it. Led by the priest, of course, which makes it a kind of dialogue we \npresent to God. But the best Masses I've been to were participatory prayers.\n\nLately, I think the proportion of participation has fallen, and the proportion\nof sitting there and watching, or listening, or generally being told what to do\n(which is necessary because no one knows what's happening next) is growing.\nExample. Last Sunday (Palm Sunday) we went to the local church. Usually\non Palm Sunday, the congregation participates in reading the Passion, taking\nthe role of the mob. The theology behind this seems profound--when we say\n\"Crucify him\" we mean it. We did it, and if He came back today we'd do it\nagain. It always gives me chills. But last week we were \"invited\" to sit\nduring the Gospel (=Passion) and _listen_. Besides the Orwellian \"invitation\", \nI was really saddened to have my (and our) little role taken away. This seems\ntypical of a shift of participation away from the people, and toward the\nmusicians, readers, and so on. New things are introduced in the course of the\nliturgy and since no one knows what's happening, the new things have to be\nexplained, and pretty soon instead of _doing_ a lot of the Mass we're just\nsitting there listening (or spacing out, in my case) to how the Mass is about\nto be done. In my mind, I lay the blame on liturgy committees made up of lay\n\"experts\", but that may not be just. I do think that a liturgy committee has a\nbias toward doing something rather than nothing--that's just a fact of\nbureaucratic life--even though a simpler liturgy may in fact make it easier for\npeople to be aware of the Lord's presence.\n\nSo we've been wondering--are we the oddballs, or is the quality of the Mass\ngoing down? I don't mean that facetiously. We go to Mass every Thursday or\nFriday and are reminded of the power of a very simple liturgy to make us aware \nof God's presence. But as far as the obligatory Sunday Masses...maybe I should \njust offer it up :) Has anyone else noticed declining congregational\nparticipation in Catholic Masses lately?", "\nWell, this particular thread of vituperation slopped its venom over\ninto alt.atheism, where we spend most of our time entertaining\narguments against our belief system, without resorting to accusing\nothers of bigotry. It's somewhat ironic that our exposure to bigotry\nhappens in this instance to have originated in rec.scouting, since I\nalways understood scouting to teach tolerance and diversity. I\nunderstand bigotry to be irrational prejudice against other people who\nhappen to be of a different race, religion, ethnic background, sex, or\nother inconsequential characteristics. All the evidence I've seen\nindicates that sexual orientation and lack of belief in gods are\nexactly such inconsequential characteristics. Thus, pending further\nevidence, I conclude that those who show prejudice against such people\nare bigots, and organizations that exclude such people are\ndiscriminatory.", "\nIf babies are not supposed to be baptised then why doesn't the Bible\never say so. It never comes right and says \"Only people that know\nright from wrong or who are taught can be baptised.\"\n What Christ did say was :\n\n \"I solemly assure you, NO ONE can enter God's kingdom without\n being born of water and Spirit ... Do not be surprised that I\n tell you you must ALL be begotten from above.\"\n\nCould this be because everyone is born with original sin?\n\n", "What we call today the \"Old Testament\" was being written up to approx-\nimately 168 BCE, according to most modern scholars. Aside from the book of\nDaniel, the whole OT predates Alexander (the Great). These books were written\n(predominantly) in Hebrew.\n\tThere were also other books being written at about this time and later\nby Greek-speaking, or \"Hellenistic\", Jews. These books are those which are\nreckoned by many denominations as \"Apocrypha\".\n\tBefore the closing of the Writings, the third part of what is today\ncalled the canon, all of the books were in use by Jews of the day. However,\nthere were those who reckoned (based on Zech. 13) that prophecy had ceased.\nThis faction maintained that there were no true prophets in their day. They\nalso maintained that literature of a prophetic character could not be genuine\nteachings from God.\n\tBy the time of c.65 CE, another faction had entered the mess. Christians\nhad come in claiming that THEIR writings were also suitable to be read in\nsynagogues and used for worship. Therefore, the Palestinian Jewish leaders\ngot together and stated that the books written from the time of Ben Sira (Sirach)\nonward were not sacred writings. They justified this from Zech. 13. In\nparticular, they said, the writings of the Christians (called heretics) were\nnot inspired.\n\tAt about 90 CE, they codified things further by closing the canon in\nsomewhat of an official sense at the Council of Jamnia. A few books (Ecclesi-\nastes, Song of Songs, Esther) made it in after that date, but these were those\nwhich had been written prior to the official cut off point (the time of Ben\nSira) for inclusion that they had established in order to keep out the Christian\nand Hellenistic writings.\n\tJerome excluded the 'apocrypha' because they were not in use by Jews\nof his day and because they were (except for Sirach) not found in Hebrew in his\ntime. His criterion for separating them from the other pre-Christian writings\nwas not based on 'inspiration'.", "I deleted much of the following article in order to discuss the \nspecific issue of whether it is acceptable to divorce. \n\n\n\nI have thought about the implications, and it is scary. \n\nWe have a whole generation of families broken up because some men have \ndecided that is is okay to leave their wives and children for the\nthrill of a younger, more attractive woman. If we accept that it is\nlegitimate for Jane to have divorced, how can we not accept anyone's\ndecision to divorce because he has found someone with whom he can\nhave a more \"deep, committed relationship.\"\n\nMarriage is not a state of being, it is a mutual journey in life.\nLove is not a passive feeling, it must be actively willed.\n\nIs it acceptable for an older executive to dump his wife of many \nyears who stayed home to care for the children because he\ncan't be happy sexually unless he is with a beautiful\nyoung blonde? The real solution for both in the couple to\nmake a renewed effort. \n\nHold fast to the faith. Has not the Lord repeatedly compared His\nrelation to His people as a faithful and enduring husband? We\nlearn something very deep and very mystical when we marry and\nremain faithful through times of trial.\n\nMy spouse has a brain tumor that has left her partially paralyzed.\nIf it were to resume growing (it is in remission, thanks be to God!)\nthen perhaps the time would come when we could not have sexual\nrelations. That's life...the Lord would certainly not give me\npermission to seek someone else to satisfy my \"needs.\" \n\nThe idea that it is alright to divorce if a couple \"grows apart\"\nseems to me to lead to such a monstrous destruction of the meaning\nof marriage that I feel we must make every effort to avoid any hint\nof compromise. We have become so petty and small-minded that\nsome husbands are threatening to divorce their wives unless the\nwives lose weight!", "\nThe answer to both questions is yes.\n\nAll Scripture is true, being inspired by God. The evidence for this\nclaim has been discussed ad nauseum in this group.\n\nSimilarly, all truth is absolute. Indeed, a non-absolute truth is a \ncontradiction in terms. When is something absolute? When it is always\ntrue. Obviously, if a \"truth\" is not always \"true\" then we have a\ncontradiction in terms. \n\nMany people claim that there are no absolutes in the world. Such a\nstatement is terribly self-contradictory. Let me put it to you this\nway. If there are no absolutes, shouldn't we conclude that the statement,\n\"There are no absolutes\" is not absolutely true? Obviously, we have a\ncontradiction here.\n\nThis is just one of the reasons why Christians defy the world by claiming\nthat there are indeed absolutes in the universe.\n\n\nSo? People sometimes disagree about what is true. This does not negate\nthe fact, however, that there are still absolutes in the universe. Moreover,\nevangelical Christianity, at least, still professes to believe in certain\ntruths. Man is sinful, man needs salvation, and Jesus is the propitiation\nfor mankind's sins, to name a few. Any group that does not profess to\nbelieve these statements cannot be accurately called evangelical.\n\n", "\n\nIf a person gives a well-balanced reasoned argument, Tammy, then all are\nhappy to discuss it with him. If he makes astounding claims, which are not\nbacked up with any evidence then he must be expected to substantiate them.\nIf the original author had said that everything was his own opinion and not\nsupportable then people would have simply ignored him. He did not. He\nclaimed many things and his logic was seriously flawed. His argument was for\nchristianity in an effort to try to convince atheists like myself to believe\nhim and his message. I for one will not take things as read. If you told me\nthat pink fluffy elephants did the dance of the sugar plum fairy on the dark\nside of Jupiter then I would demand evidence!\n\n\nAdda\n\n", "I give up. What's new about yet another interpretation of the\nodl Adam and Eve story?\n -- Michael\n", "\nGod never changes. He still loves us. Sending Jesus was one of His\nattempts to reconcile with mankind. The nature of God has not changed.\n\n\nSinning in the face of God was punishable by immediate death. There are\nseveral OT passages to back this up. God is God. He cannot tolerate\nthe prescence of sin in His midst. And the Israelites knew this! And\nstill, some of them chose to disobey and were destroyed. Were these\npeople KIND and LOVing themselves? God gave them every break He could\nbut in the end, He really had no choice in the matter. Seeing as how\nwe were failing to achieve salvation on our own, He sent His Son to die\nfor us - to be the ultimate sin offering. Now we live in the age of\ngrace.\n\n\n\nHe sent His Son as a consolation to us, out of love.\n \n\nHey, let's be fair for a moment here. KIND and LOVING does not mean\na free ride. There is an amount of give and take as in any relationship.\nParents are supposed to be kind and loving but does that mean that \nchildren can do whatever they want? NOT! Part of being a parent means\nadministering punishment when the child is at fault. Part of being a \nparent means giving instruction. God tests us through the trial of\nlife such that we may grow stronger. He teaches what is right and \nwhat is wrong. The consequences of our actions are made clear to us,\nbe it Heaven or be it Hell. If God did not follow through with what\nHe has warned us about, He would not be a very good parent.\n\nIn parenting, if a parent issues a warning but does not follow through\nwith it, the children will not take that parent's words very seriously.\nGod does the same by telling us who have ears to hear what to do and\nwhat not to do. By life's trials, we see the folly of doing our own\nwill rather than His. He warns us about the consequences of rejecting\nHim when it comes time for Judgement. Do we follow Him?\n\nI will.\n\nPeace be with you,\n\nMalcolm Lee :)\n", "\n[Anyway, your argument seems to be saying, \"If _I_ were\nGod, I certainly wouldn't do things that way; therefore, God doesn't do\nthings that way.\"]", "\n[...stuff deleted...]\n\nComputers are an excellent example...of evolution without \"a\" creator.\nWe did not \"create\" computers. We did not create the sand that goes\ninto the silicon that goes into the integrated circuits that go into\nprocessor board. We took these things and put them together in an\ninteresting way. Just like plants \"create\" oxygen using light through \nphotosynthesis. It's a much bigger leap to talk about something that\ncreated \"everything\" from nothing. I find it unfathomable to resort\nto believing in a creator when a much simpler alternative exists: we\nsimply are incapable of understanding our beginnings -- if there even\nwere beginnings at all. And that's ok with me. The present keeps me\nperfectly busy.", "\n\n\nNot to worry. The Masons have been demonized and harrassed by almost \nevery major Xian church there is. For centuries now. And still they \nstand. They wil withstand the miserable Southern Boobtists, I am sure.\nThey may even pick up a little support as people start to listen to the \nBoobtists and realize that subtracting the obvious lies and claims of \nSatanism that the Masons sound pretty good by comparison. One thing is \nknown. A sizable proportion of Southern Babtists are Masons! And the \nMasons have already fired back in their own magazines against the \nBoobtist Witch-hunt.\n Since the Consrervatives have already been a divisive element with \ntheir war on Boobtist moderates and liberals, they may now start in on \ntheir Mason/Boobtist brothers and hasten their own downfall as more and \nmore Southern Boobtists realize their church can't stand being run by a \nhandful of clowns looking for holy civil wars and purity tests and drop \n'em out of the leadership positions they have taken over.\n So as far as I am concerned, the louder, ruder, and more outrageous \nan Anti-Masonic Crusade these old goats mount, the better.\n\nPop some pocorn and get a center row seat. The circus is about to begin.\nAnd, Oh Look! HERE COME THE CLOWNS!\n\n\nPope Charles Slack!\n", "Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of\nsins. ", ": Exodus 21:22-25:\n\n: 22 And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with\n: child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further\n: injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband may\n: demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide.\n: 23 But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint\n: as a penalty life for life,\n: 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,\n: 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.\n\n: The most straightforward interpretation of these verses is that if\n: men in a fight strike a woman and cause her to miscarry, the penalty\n: is only a fine. If, however, the woman is injured or dies, the\n: *lex talionis* doctrine of \"an eye for an eye\" applies. This is the\n: Jewish interpretation, and is supported by Jewish commentaries on\n: these verses.\n: This is quite an embarrassment for pro-lifer Christians, so there is\n: of course an alternate explanation. The alternative interprets the\n: word \"miscarriage\" to mean \"premature birth\"--i.e., the child is born\n: alive--and \"further injury\" to mean injury to either the woman or\n: the fetus. This is not a straightforward interpretation, it is not\n: (so far as I know) supported by any Jewish commentaries, and it does\n: not appeared to be supported by any other part of the Bible.\n\nWhat if any, historical reference do we have to abortion at this time? Did\nthe ancient Jew have appropriate reference to understand abortion? (I am\ntruly asking, not making a point veiled as a question). If there is \nlittle understanding of the medical procedure we know as abortion, it is\nnot surprising the Bible makes little reference to it, as it makes little\nreference to nuclear power and contamination.", "You could argue that if you wanted, but I think a more reasonable \nargument would point out the fact that the remembrance feast was\nvery similar to the Pesach (Passover) meal during Seder, a very\nJewish ritual.\n \nThe fact that there appears to be an abuse in the early Church of\npeople eating too much (a very real concern with some Passover meals)\nand not treating the meal with respect, shows the simplifying of the\nritual to just bread and wine to be a way of dealing with the\ninherent problems of people's human nature, and trying to keep the\nessentials of the remembrance aspects.", "#|> #\n#|> #False dichotomy. You claimed the killing were *not* religiously\n#|> #motivated, and I'm saying that's wrong. I'm not saying that\n#|> #each and every killing is religiously motivate, as I spelled out\n#|> #in detail.\n#|> \n#|> Which killings do you say are religously motivated?\n#\n#For example, I would claim that the recent assassination of four\n#catholic construction workers who had no connection with the IRA\n#was probably religously motivated.\n#\n#|> At the time\n#|> of writing, I think that someone who claims the current violence is\n#|> motivated by religion is reaching.\n#\n#What would you call is when someone writes \"The killings in N.I \n#are not religously motivated?\"\n\nI'd say it was motivated by a primitive notion of revenge, and by\nmisguided patriotism. Otherwise, I'd have to wonder how come mainland\ncatholics are not killed by mainland protestants, and southern\ncatholics are not killed by southern protestants, and so on. Take away\nall plausible causes bar religion, and the violence diminishes markedly.\nGee, why _is_ that?\n\n#|> Now, it's possible to argue that \n#|> religion *in the past* is a major contributing factor to the violence in\n#|> the present, but I don't know of any evidence that this is so - and I'm\n#|> not enough of a historian to debate it. \n#\n#Given that the avowed aim of the IRA is to take Northern Ireland\n#into a country that has a particular church written into its \n#constitution, and which has restriction on civil rights dictated\n#by that Church, I fail to see why the word \"past\" is appropriate.\n\nThe country also has a different official language written in its\nconstitution (and vice versa :-) - maybe they're motivated by a love of \nIrish poetry. Your argument is fallacious, jon.\n\nFor what it's worth, I agree with all that you say about Ireland above, \nand more.\n", "Hello all. We are doing a bible study (at my college) on Revelations. We\nhave been doing pretty good as far as getting some sort of reasonable\ninterpretation. We are now on chapters 17 and 18 which talk about the\nwoman on the beast and the fall of Babylon. I believe the beast is the\nAntichrist (some may differ but it seems obvious) and the woman represents\nBabylon which stands for Rome or the Roman Catholic Church. What are some\nviews on this interpretation? Is the falling Babylon in chapter 18 the same\nBabylon in as in chapter 17? The Catholic church?\nHate to step on toes.\nthanks\n\n-------- \nJimmy Buddenberg INTERNET: jbuddenberg@vax.cns.muskingum.edu\nMuskingum College ", "Hey...\n\nI may be wrong, but wasn't Jeff Fenholt part of Black Sabbath? He's a\nMAJOR brother in Christ now. He totally changed his life around, and\nhe and his wife go on tours singing, witnessing, and spreading the\ngospel for Christ. I may be wrong about Black Sabbath, but I know he\nwas in a similar band if it wasn't that particular group...\n\nHOW GREAT IS TH LOVE THE FATHER HAS LAVISHED ON US, THAT WE SHOULD BE\nCALLED CHILDREN OF GOD! AND THAT IS WHAT WE ARE! (1 JOHN 3:1)", "/(Frank DeCenso)\n/>\n/>I need to prioritize things in my life, and this board is not all that important\n/>to me. \n\nOf course it is. It forms a very big part of your self-respect. You come onto \nthe board, thinking you're some sort of apologeticist for your faith, and you\nroutinely get roasted over a grill for stupid theories and unfounded assumptions.\n\n\n\n\n/(Frank DeCenso)\n/This board will have\n/>to wait until (if ever) I can organize my life to fit it in. I tried dropping\n/>out, but Sieferman coerced me to come back. He won't this time.\n\nI doubt that Sieferman has anything to do with you dropping out. \n\nIt's probably closer to the truth to say that you don't have the cards to \nplay in this game (because you insist on playing from a losing hand), and you're\nfinally realizing it. You will lurk on the board, and keep \nquiet for a while, looking for an area where you are *certain* that you \nare correct, and then we'll see you pop back in again. Of course, you then\nwill say that you have merely returned because your life is now \"in order\".", "whitsebd@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (Bryan Whitsell) writes,\n\n\nBut that is exactly what I was asking. If the Homosexual community (is that\nthe proper term?) has decided that Christianity is not against Homosexual \nbehaviour but rather condones it then how do they interpret these verses. I\nguess what I am really looking for is a \"homosexual\" response.", "Woo! So far, we've had the following interpretations of the figure of\nthe `Whore of Babylon' in Rev 17 & 18:\n\na) The United States of America\nb) MHO dB) which was as a figure of the fallen spiritual powers who\n corrupt and oppress human society\nc) Historical Jerusalem\nd) Historical Rome\n\nDare I suggest that the passage might be many layered in meaning? How\nabout * The prophecy reveals God's judgement on the corrupt & idolatrous\nstate oppressing his chosen people (d) * That God's judgement extends\n_especially_ to his once chosen city (c) because, despite that City's\nspecial call, it still rejected God's grace at the decisive time (Rev\n11:8? - also isn't Rev19:24 equally suggestive of Rome as Jerusalem?) *\nThat the USofA is guilty of many of the crimes of Rome/Babylon (a) and\nis equally subject to God's judgement * That the Good Book(TM) actually\nencompasses _all_ these viewpoints by revealing the corrupting spiritual\npowers warring against mankind through the very society that we've\ncreated. (b)\n\nClever, huh? (<-- Flame here!) No need to argue at all! \n\nI think Mary's view has a lot of sense because there seems to be a\ndeliberate contrast between Rev 17/18 and Rev 21/22 - the mortal\nJerusalem chosen by God but never (historically) fulfilling its vocation\nand the new Jerusalem perfected (outside of history) purely by God's\ngrace. eg Details like Rev 17:1 `.. who sits on many waters' cf Rev 22\nthe single stream in the new Jersualem `the river of life flowing from\nthe throne of God and of the Lamb.'", "\n\n\n\n\nDo you question the existence of Alexander the Great, Tilgrath Pilisar III,\nNero, Caligula, Josephus, Cyrus the Great, Artexerxes? Their documents\nhave decayed to dust too. Brian, why another excuse? \n\n\nPeter wrote a bit of the Bible. What Peter says about God is what\nthe Bible says. \n\n\nConsider the Bible a court recording. Over the period of thousands of\nyears, various people come up and testify of their experience with the\nliving God. Up comes Abraham the wealthy rancher. Up comes Moses,\nonce the high official of Egypt. Up comes Elijah, a priest. Up comes\nDavid, a mere shepherd who became King. Up comes the pagan King \nNebuchanezzar. Up comes the pagan King of Persia, Cyrus. Up comes\nNehemiah, cupbearer to the King of Persia. Then Matthew, an IRS agent\ntakes the stand. Up comes Luke, an M.D. Then Paul a Jew who use\nto kill Christians for fun. Up comes John, a 17 year old boy. Up\ncomes Peter, a fishermen. Up comes James, the brother of Jesus himself.\nUp comes hundreds of others. You hear testimony from fishermen, IRS\nagents, priests, Kings. The court hearing lasts thousands of years\nwith people coming up and testifying about the God who calls himself\n\"I am.\" \n\nWhile you are listening to all this stuff, you realize that\nKing David could have never known John, Solomon could have never known\nMatthew, Nehemiah could have never known Peter. You realize that all these\npeople are independent witnesses, and so, you rule out collaboration. Yet\nall of the witnesses tell of the same God. Each testifier tells\nof his own experiences with the living God. Each experience is\ndifferent, but each experience has enough cross-over to unmistakenly\nreveal that each one of these people is talking about the very same God.\nWhat Daniel did not know about God, the 3rd Highest Official of\nBabylon, God revealed to John 600 years later--but with a different\nperspective. No two testimonies are identical. Each testimony\ndares to venture off what is already known. Yet each witness's\ntestimony, even though different from those prior, consistently\ndescribes harmoniously fitting facets of the character of the same God. \n\nNow. As we stare gazing at the computer, you got this seeming fanatic\non the other end of the net, saying, I know this God \"I am\". He has\nrevealed himself to me too. He also calls himself Jesus (John 8:58).\nPlease believe me. I am telling the truth. It is wonderful to know him.", "\nNo one was ever flogged, beaten, burned, fed to the lions, or killed in any\nother way because of a belief in the resurrection - sorry to disappoint you.\nThe idea of resurrection is one which can be found in a host of different\nforms in the religions of antiquity. The problem was not the resurrection\nwhich was a mediorce issue for a tiny fragment of the Jewish population \n(the Saducees) but was a non issues for everyone else. The real problem was\nthat Christians were pacifist and preached there was only one god. When the\nstate operates by a system of divinitation of the emperor - monotheism \nbecomes a capital offense. The Jews were able to get exemption from this,\nand were also not evangelistic. Christians were far more vocal, and gentile,\nand hence dangerous and were therefore targets of persecution. Also since\nChristians were a relatively powerless group, they made good scapegoats as is\nseen by Nero's blaming them for the burning of Rome. Let's not cloud the\nissues with the resurrection.\n\nrandy", "#|>\n#|> #And in that area, what you care about is whether someone is sceptical,\n#|> #critical and autonomous on the one hand, or gullible, excitable and\n#|> #easily led on the other.\n#|> \n#|> Indeed I may. And one may be an atheist and also be gullible, excitable\n#|> and easily led.\n#|> \n#|> #I would say that a tendency to worship tyrants and ideologies indicates\n#|> #that a person is easily led. Whether they have a worship or belief \n#|> #in a supernatural hero rather than an earthly one seems to me to be\n#|> #beside the point.\n#|> \n#|> Sure. But whether or not they are atheists is what we are discussing,\n#|> not whether they are easily led. \n#\n#Not if you show that these hypothetical atheists are gullible, excitable\n#and easily led from some concrete cause. In that case we would also\n#have to discuss if that concrete cause, rather than atheism, was the\n#factor that caused their subsequent behaviour.\n\nI'm not arguing that atheism causes such behaviour - merely that\nit is not relevant to the definition of atheism, which is 'lack of belief in \ngods'. \n\n", "\n\nAn extremely good example of \"circumstantial evidence!\"\nEvery time these right-wing control-freaks start spouting\nabout prayer in schools, I get this nagging commentary\nfrom the Sermon on the Mount [Matt: 6:5-6] \"And when you\npray, do not imitate the hypocrites: they love to say their\nprayers standing up in the synagogues and at the street\ncorners for people to see them. I tell you solemnly, they\nhave had their reward. But when you pray, go to your\nprivate room and, when you have shut your door, pray to\nyour Father who is in that secret place.\"\n\nBut no. THEY want PUBLIC prayers, the better to manipulate\nchildren. \"Amen\" indeed.\n\n\nI hope you don't mind if I say \"amen\" to this? :-)", ": Ok, a few days back, the below-included message was posted stating: \n: \n: > I believe with everything in my heart that on May 3, 1993, the city of\n: >Portland, Oregon in the country of the United States of America will be hit\n: >with a catastrophic and disastrous earthquake...\n: \n: By now, we know that this did not come to pass....\n: \n: ...I don't think it's particularly \n: glorifying to God to say things like \"Well, I THINK the Lord is telling me...\", \n: ..Such statements seem to me to be an attempt to get a spiritual thrill should \n: the guess happen to come true, without risking the guilt of false prophecy \n: should it fail to come to pass. I do not believe genuine prophecy was ever \n: like this. Comments?\n: \n\nI agree. People should not be misled to believe \"thus sayeth the Lord\" by\ninnuendo or opinion or speculation.\n\nSpeak directly. If the Lord has given you something to say, say it.\nBut, before I declare \"thus sayeth the Lord\", I'd better know for certain\nwithout a shadow of a doubt that I am in the correct spiritual condition\nand relationship with the Lord to receive such a prophecy and be absolutely\ncertain, again, without the tiniest shadow of a doubt that there is no\npossibility of my being misled by my own imaginations or by my hope of gaining\nrecognition or of being misled by the wiles of the devil and his followers.\n\nMistakes in this area are costly and dangerous. For me, my greatest fears\nin this area would be the following:\n\n1--that the people would be misled\n2--that people would lose respect for christianity\n3--that true prophecy would be clouded by all the false prophecies\n4--were God to call me to be a prophet and I were to misrepresent God's Word,\n my calling would be lost forever. God's Word would command the people\n never to listen to or fear my words as I would be a false prophet. My\n bridges would be burnt forever. Perhaps I could repent and be saved, but\n I could never again be a prophet of God.\n\nIn the light of this, it is critical that we speak when the Lord says speak\nand that we be silent when the Lord says to be silent lest we deprive the\nworld of God's Word and hide it under a bushel either by our inappropriate,\ncowardly silence or by our false statements. And because of this, it\nis critically important that we remain close to the Lord, in His Word, and\nin prayer, and filled with the Spirit of God so that we know the difference.\n\nIn this day and age, sinners spout off their mouths left and right judging\none another, claiming \"rights\" that are not theirs, denying rights that do\nindeed belong to others, demanding equal respect for all the \"gods\" of this\nworld, and uttering every form of falseness that promises to make one feel\ngood.\n\nIt's time that we christians give an example of honesty that stands out in\ncontrast against this backdrop of falsehood. When we say, \"thus sayeth the\nLord\", it happens. When we pray, prayer is answered because we prayed right.\nWhen we say we're christians, we really mean it.\n\n Dan\n\n--\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\t\"I deplore the horrible crime of child murder...\n\t We want prevention, not merely punishment.\n\t We must reach the root of the evil...\n\t It is practiced by those whose inmost souls revolt\n\t from the dreadful deed...\n\t No mater what the motive, love of ease,\n\t\tor a desire to save from suffering the unborn innocent,\n\t\tthe woman is awfully guilty who commits the deed...\n\t but oh! thrice guilty is he who drove her\n\t\tto the desperation which impelled her to the crime.\"", "\n I don't think Joe was saying any such thing. However, your question\non \"asking Jesus to come into your heart\" seems to imply that infants\nare not allowed to have Christ in theirs. Why must Baptism always be\nviewed by some people as a sort of \"prodigal son\" type of thing; i.e. a\nsudden change of heart, going from not accepting Christ to suddenly\naccepting Christ? Why can't people start out with Christ from shortly\nafter birth, and build their relationship from there? After all, does\na man suddenly meet a woman, and then marry her that same day? From my\nexperiences, I've learned that all relationships must be built,\nincluding one's relationship with God.\n\n Also Joe is speaking from the standpoint that Baptism is not just a\nritual, but that through it God bestows sacramental grace upon the\nrecipient. Certainly for those with the mental faculties to know Christ\nit is necessary to believe in Him. However, the Sacrament itself\nbestows grace on the recipient, and makes a permanent mark of adoption\ninto God's family on the soul.", "\n\nI don't think we need to argue about this.\n\n\nYes, but also many people who are not trying to make government recognize\nChristianity as the dominant religion in this country do no think\nthe motto infringes upon the rights of others who do not share their\nbeliefs.\n\nAnd actually, I think that the government already does recognize that\nChristianity is the dominant religion in this country. I mean, it is.\nDon't you realize/recognize this?\n\nThis isn't to say that we are supposed to believe the teachings of\nChristianity, just that most people do.\n\n\nIf you agree with me, then what are we discussing?\n\n\nNo, but I hear quite a bit about Christmas, and little if anything about\nJesus. Wouldn't this figure be more prominent if the holiday were really\nassociated to a high degree with him? Or are you saying that the\nassociation with Jesus is on a personal level, and that everyone thinks\nabout it but just never talks about it?\n\nThat is, can *you* prove that most people *do* associate Christmas\nmost importantly with Jesus?\n\n\nI think the numbers *do* matter. It takes a majority, or at least a\nmajority of those in power, to discriminate. Doesn't it?", "\n\n\nVery interesting, but I also believe that you have presented a\nmisleading argument. Christianity is not the cause of the massacres\nand horrific injustices that you relate, rather they are the fault\nof people who misunderstand Jesus Christ's message, and modify\nit to suit their own beliefs and aims, rather than alter their\nambitions to be more in line with those presented as desirable in\nthe New Testament. With every truthful and good message that\ncarries authority or implied authority, comes the inevitable\nfact that some (many?) people will understand it in a distorted\nway, with inevitable consequences.\n\nThe Bible's message is that we are to love all people, and\nthat all people are redeemable. It preaches a message of\nrepentance, and of giving. Unfortunately, all people have\ndeceitful hearts, and are capable of turning this message\naround and contorting it in sometimes unbelievable ways.\nThis is also a fundamental Christian doctrine.\n\nOne of the problems is that you look at the world through\nthe eyes of Western history. I think that you will find\nmany, many cases of massacres that were instigated by\npeople who never claimed they were Christian. I am not saying\nthis to justify the massacres that were, but I am merely\npointing you to a tendency which is present in humans already.\n\nConsider the world without Christianity. I doubt that we\nwould have the same freedoms in the countries in which we\nlive, if it wasn't for the peaceful doctrines of Jesus Christ.\nPerhaps we would even be confronted by a very harsh religion\n(I won't name any here, though one comes to mind) which\nwould not even allow us the freedom of speech to debate such\nsubjects.\n\nPoint the blame at inherent human tendencies of thirst for\npower, greed and hatred. Please don't point the blame at\na message which preaches fundamental giving and denial, in\nlove for others.\n\nYours in Christ,\n\nAndrew McVeigh\n\n\np.s. I believe that a line of questioning like you presented\nis, strangely enough, compatible with becoming a Christian.\nCertainly Christianity encourages one to question the behaviour\nof the world, and especially Christians. I praise God for\nJesus Christ, and the fact that we can doubt our beliefs\nand still come back to God and be forgiven, time and time\nagain.\n\n--\n*****\n", "\n Lev 17:11: For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given\n it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is\n the blood that makes atonement for the soul.\n\nThe Old Testament was very big on the \"eye for an eye\" business. It\nmakes sense that Leviticus would support physical injury to \"repay\"\nmoral wrongdoing.\n\nI know about sanctification. I've been taught all about it in Sunday\nschool, catechism class, and theology classes. But even after all\nthat, I still can't accept it. Maybe I'm still not understanding it,\nor maybe I'm just understanding it all too well.\n\nFrom the bottom of my heart I know that the punishment of an innocent\nman is wrong. I've tried repeatedly over the course of several years\nto accept it, but I just can't. If this means that I can't accept the\npremise that a god who would allow this is 'perfectly good', then so\nbe it.\n\n\nIf you can explain to me why the death of Jesus was a *good* thing,\nthen I would be very glad to hear it, and you might even convert me.\nBe warned, however, that I've heard all the most common arguments\nbefore, and they just don't convince me.\n", "\n[ ... my stuff deleted ... ]\n\n\nBill, you seem to have erroneously assumed that this board has as its\nsole purpose the validation of atheism. It doesn't. This board is\nused to discuss atheism as a philosophy, to share posters' experiences\nregarding atheism, to debunk various theisms and theism as a whole, to\nshare resources relating to atheism, and even to socialize with others\nwith similar views. And of course with the number of theists who come\nhere to preach, it is also used to argue the case for atheism. \n\n\n\nIf you want to accuse people of lying, please do so directly. The\nphrase \"deliberately mistaken\" is rather oxymoronic.\n\n \n\nThe two forms of theism most often discussed here these days are\nChristianity and Islam. Both of these claim to make their followers\ninto good people, and claim that much of benefit to humanity has been\naccomplished through their faiths. IMHO they are right. The American\nFriends Service Committee (Quaker), Catholic Relief Services, Bread\nFor The World, Salvation Army soup kitchens, and Mother Theresa spring\nto mind. (Can someone with more knowledge of Islam supply the names\nof some analagous Islamic groups?) \n\nWhen Mother Theresa claims that her work is an outgrowth of her\nChristianity, I believe her. Her form of theism ascribes to her deity\nsuch a benevolence toward humanity that it would be wrong not to care\nfor those in need. The point is that such a philosophy does have the\npower to change the behavior of individuals; if it is widespread\nenough, it can change societies.\n\nThe same works for the horrors of history. To claim that Christianity\nhad little to do with the Crusades or the Inquisition is to deny the\nawesome power that comes from faith in an absolute. What it seems you\nare doing twisting the reasonable statement that religion was never\nthe solitary cause of any evil into the unreasonable statement that\nreligion has had no evil impacts on history. That is absurd.", "TEXT 44\n\n bhogaisvarya-prasaktanam\n tayapahrta-cetasam\n vyavasayatmika buddhih\n samadhau na vidhiyate\n \nbhoga--to material enjoyment; aisvarya--and opulence; prasaktanam--for\nthose who are attached; taya--by such things;\napahrta-cetasam--bewildered in mind; vyavasaya-atmika--fixed in\ndetermination; buddhih--devotional service to the Lord; samadhau--in\nthe controlled mind; na--never; vidhiyate--does take place.\n \n TRANSLATION\n\n\tIn the minds of those who are too attached to sense enjoyment and\nmaterial opulence, and who are bewildered by such things, the resolute\ndetermination for devotional service to the Supreme Lord does not take\nplace.\n \n PURPORT\n\n\tSamadhi means ``fixed mind.'' The Vedic dictionary, the Nirukti,\nsays, samyag adhiyate 'sminn atma-tattva-yathatmyam: ``When the mind is\nfixed for understanding the self, it is said to be in samadhi.''\nSamadhi is never possible for persons interested in material sense\nenjoyment, nor for those who are bewildered by such temporary things.\nThey are more or less condemned by the process of material energy.\n\nBhagavad-Gita As It Is\nBooks of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami\n\n\n ---------------------------------------------------------\n | Don't forget to chant: |\n | |\n | Hare Krishna Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna Hare Hare |\n | Hare Rama Hare Rama, Rama Rama Hare Hare |\n | |\n | Kalki's Infoline BBS Aiken, South Carolina, USA |\n | (system@kalki33.lakes.trenton.sc.us) |", "Another article that fell between the cracks:\n\n As evidence for the Resurrection, it is often claimed that the Disciples\nwere tortured to death for their beliefs and still did not renounce\ntheir claim that Jesus had come back from the dead.\n Now, I skimmed Acts and such, and I found a reference to this happening\nto Stephen, but no others. Where does this apparently very widely held\nbelief come from? Is there any evidence outside the Bible? Is there any\nevidence *in* the Bible? I sure haven't found any...\n\nBriefly, no. There is widespread folklore, but no good documentary\nevidence, or even solid rumor, concerning the deaths of the Apostles.\nFurther, the usual context of such arguments, as you observe, is \"No\nMartyrs for a Lie\": i.e. the willingness of these people to die rather\nthan recant is evidence for the truth of their belief. This adds the\nquite stronger twist that the proposed martyrs must have been offered\nthe chance of life by recanting. Since we don't even know how or\nwhere they died, we certainly don't have this information. (By the\nway, even in the case of Stephen it is not at all clear that he could\nhave saved himself by recanting). The willingness of true believers\nto die for their belief, be it in Jesus or Jim Jones, is\nwell-documented, so martyrdom in and of itself says little. [See\n1Kings18:20-40 for a Biblical account of the martyrdom of 450 priests\nof Baal].\n\n", "\nCuriously enough, this subject has occupied a good bit of my prayer life\nrecently. God's experience of time is so completely different from our own,\nsince He is both within and without it. Using words like \"foreknowledge\"\nand \"predestination\" are semantically incorrect when it comes to describing\nGod's perception of our action, because, for God, the beginning, living, and\nending of our lives are all the same. Sort of. For God, there is no \"before\"\nwhen He did not know, so he could not have \"foreknowledge\" of our lives or\na time when he could have \"predestined\" our actions. In fact, since our\nunderstanding of things is so tied to our linear experience of time, I\nwould say that it is impossible for us to understand completely how our\nfree will interacts with God's control of the universe.", "\nIt's my understanding that Romans 9:13 \"As it is written, Jacob have I\nloved, but Esau have I hated.\" refers not to the two individuals, but\nrather to their offspring, the tribe of Jacob and the tribe of Esau\n\nSee Obadiah, for example. In fact, if you scan through the OT, you\nwill find similar references to the two tribes.", " \n\nAlways existing and being the source of the existence of all other beings\nis not problematic.\n\nBut, as you put, Being the source of \"all\" existence, including one's own,\nwould mean that God came from nothing, a concept alien to Christianity and\nTheism. It is better to understand the classical concepts of Necessary and\nContingent existence. God exists necessarily, always. God created\ncontingent beings. This is a coherent solution to existence, so long as\nthe concept of God is coherent.\n \n\nNot a very good answer. If reason cannot by any means understand something\nthen it is likely that \"it\" is a null concept, something not in reality.", "\n\nIn a cell church, the fundamental building block is the \"cell group\" -- a\nsmall group of no more than 15 believers. The small groups are responsible\nfor the ministry of the church: evangelism and discipleship. The emphasis\nis on relationships, not on programs, and both the evangelism and the\ndiscipling are relationship-based.\n\nThis will probably raise more questions than it answered, but that's it in\na nutshell.", "\nThe basic definition that I use is:\n\tThe belief that Jesus was God incarnate.\n\tThe belief that Jesus was crucified and raised from the dead\n\tfor our salvation.\n\tThe acceptance of Jesus as personal Lord and Savior.\n\nThis would include most Christian denominations, but exclude the Unitarians.\n\t", "\n\nAre you making a meta-argument here? In any case, you are wrong. \nThink of those invisible pink unicorns.\n\n\nI was responding to the \"historical accuracy... of Biblical claims\",\nof which the existence of Jesus is only one, and one that was not even\nmentioned in my post.\n\n\nWrong. That was exactly the issue. Go back and read the context\nincluded within my post, and you'll see what I mean.\n\nNow that I've done you the kindness of responding to your questions,\nplease do the same for me. Answer the Charley Challenges. Your claim\nthat they are of the \"did not!/ did so!\" variety is a dishonest dodge\nthat I feel certain fools only one person.", "\nI don't think the issue of whether infants have faith is relevant or not.\nCertainly they *can*, as the example of John in utero proves. I find the\ntranslation of Col 2 above odd in terms of the circumcision of christ,\nwhich the KJV and RSV put in terms of Christ's cricumcision which we, in\nunion with him *participate* in putting off the body of sins of the flesh.\n\nAlso, perhaps cor 2:12 is dividing the act of burial with him in baptism,\nwhich can be independant of faith, from the experience of rising with\nChrist by faith. Who says both are by faith? This interpretation has the\nadvantage of explaining those who are faithlessly baptized, for whom their\nbaptisim is not benefit, but serves to put them into the kingdom nonetheless.\n\nLike the israelites (all of them, children included) who were baptized in\nthe cloud and in the sea, it was of no advantage because they did not add\nto their baptism faith and obedience.\n\nBaptism does not impart faith, nor is it done strictly speaking on the\nbasis of the faith of the parent, but because of the covcenant promise of\nGod. It imparts grace, the grace of the kingdom, which can be a\npunishement in disguise if there is later apostacy.\n\n\n\nDo you teach a child to pray the Lord's prayer? Do you expect them to not\nsteal? They *can* have faith appropriate to their condition. And in the\nnew covenant, we shall no longer say: know the lord, for they shall all\nknow him from the least unto the greatest Heb 8:11.\n\n\nBut also according to Ezekiel 18, God will not hold innocent anyone on the\nbasis of anyone elses innocense. Thus Jesus could not be our federal head\nany more than adam, *IF* that's what ezekiel is talking about. Shall you\nmake ezekiel 18 contradict the second commandemnt as well?\n\n\n >\n\nEzekiel 36:25-26 indicates that this new heart will be given by God,\nin the context of the sprinkling of water in baptism. It is the action of\nGod puting them into his new order, and not a question of\"personal\"\nfaith as such.\n\n\nBut the death that came to all because of sin is not just their personal\ndeath, but the dead state (originbal sin). We are in a covenant of death,\nbecause adam, our federal head gave over his dominion to the devil and death.\n\n\n\nWhile this psalm is figurative in it's language, it is not hyperbolic, and\nthe one does not necessarily imply the other. There is not other\nhyperbolic language in this psalm. What v 5 is likely refering to is \nwhat is symbolized by the OT cleanliness laws (which make intercourse and\nchildbrith both acts which caus uncleannes and seperation from God). The\nwhole psalm is in the language of OT ritual (hyssop, cleansing, burnt\noffering, etc) David's sin with bathsheba included this element, as he\ndid not ritually cleanse himself when he should have. \n\nBut what was symbolized by the OT ritual was the truth that sin was \npassed generationally. That's why the organ of generation had to be\ncut. That's why brith was unclean. Uncleanness was death, and all babies\nwere born dead, and needed to be washed to newness of life, which we have in\nbaptism today.", "\nJohn 12:24-26: \"Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat\nfalls onto the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it\nproduces much grain.\n \"He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in\nthis world will keep it for eternal life.\n \"If anyone serves Me, let him follow Me; and where I am, there My\nservant will be also. If anyone serves Me, him My Father will honor.\"\n\nWhy would I want an eternal life if I hate this one?\n\nIf we were created by a deity, why would that deity not wish us to\nenjoy what he has given us?\n\nWhy would I want to live forever? The challenge in my life is that I\nwill die, and that I must give my life the meaning I wish it to have\nbefore that happens. My time is here and will someday pass; I will be\ncontent to live on in the memories of my friends, and once they too\nare dead, then I will no longer have any reason to exist.\n\nIn short: even if your deity *does* exist, that doesn't automatically\nmean that I would worship it. I am content to live my own life, and\nfend for myself, so when I die, I can be proud of the fact that no\nmatter where I end up, it will be because of *my* actions and *my* choices.\n\nIf your god decides to toss me into a flaming pit for this, then so be\nit. I would much rather just cease to exist. But if your god wants\nmy respect and my obedience, then it had better earn these; and if it\ndoes, then they will be very strong and true.\n\n\nJesus wasn't the only one who rose from the dead -- I think it was\nOsiris who did the same, as well as a few characters from Greek or\nNorse legend, if memory serves.\n\nBut still: WHY would I want to rise from the dead? Why do *you* want to?\n\n\nIf your god wants to win my devotion, then it knows what it can do --\nprovide some way for me to believe without having to resort to blind\nfaith that could be applied equally well to any religion.\n\n\nThat's precisely it. I neither see nor know Zeus either, nor Odin.\nShall I offer them the same devotion I offer Jesus?\n\n\nYou've got to understand my point-of-view: I see Christians spouting\nBible verse all the time as if it were some sort of magic spell that\nwill level all opposition. Truth is, it's not. Robert has never\ndemonstrated that he actually understands what the verses imply; he\njust rattles them off day by day. Some brazenly fly in the face of\ncommon sense and reality, and I point these out where I can.\n\nBut even more than that, even when Christians *do* try to explain the\nverses in their own words, they do so from a Christian point of view,\nwhich is that every human being would want to be a Christian if only\nhe or she understood the Christian message properly, and then all\nstrife and suffering on the earth would end. Here's the problem with\nthat: substitute \"Moslem\" or \"Buddhist\" or \"Satanist\" instead of\n\"Christian\", and it means the same thing.\n\nChristanity is a very nice belief set around a very nice book. But if\nyou want to make me believe that it has any bearing on the REAL WORLD,\nyou've got some convincing to do.\n\n\nAnd in my opinion, you're bumbling about blindly making up entities\nwhere there aren't any, and depriving yourself of a true understanding\nand enjoyment of your life. As long as you keep your beliefs to\nyourself, I'll keep my beliefs to myself -- but as soon as you start\nwaving them around, expect me to toss in my opinions, too.", "\nIt's not the fact that it can't exist that bothers me. It's \nthe fact that you don't seem to be able to define it.\n\nIf I wanted to hear about indefinable things that might in\nprinciple exist as long as you don't think about them too\ncarefully, I could ask a religious person, now couldn't I?", "\n\n\n\n Hmmm... people in the americas before the time of Christ, children who\ndie young, etc. ?\n\n\n\n\n But of course, the popular conception of hell (correct or incorrect) is\nsomething akin to eternal perpetuation of consciousness, at the very least.\n\n\n\n I think a good number of atheists believe there is nothing beyond \nbodily death, but it is simply an abuse of language to say they believe\nthey're going to hell. They believe they're going to _die_. Understand\nthat you've turned Hell into a verb. Using the same logic, it also follows\nthat all animals are 'going to Hell.' Are you sure this is what you want\nto say? (presumably animals don't have the opportunity to get to heaven,\nbut this still doesn't change the fact that they're going to Hell (die\na final death))\n\n I don't claim to know whether or not there is an afterlife of _some_\nsort, but if Hell is as you described (final death, and\nnot eternal perpetuation of consciousness) it will be true that\nthere will never be a moment when I am aware of my non-existence. \n(assuming I 'go to Hell' and not to Heaven) In other words, I'll\nnever know I'm dead. Hmmm... \n\n\n\n Ever hear people say of a loved one who was ill, and has died:\n \"At least she's not suffering any more; She's in Heaven now.\" ?\n\n Consider the following statement:\n \"At least she's not suffering any more; She's in Hell now.\"\n\n The above statement sounds odd, but according to your definition of Hell, \nit would be a true statement. The person in Hell would not be suffering. \nGranted, they wouldn't be *anything* (wouldn't be having any\nconscious experience whatsoever). \n\n You say Hell (death) is eternal. However, this loses its meaning \nto a dead person. And to me, it seems that the threat of some sort \nof eternal punishment only makes sense/has force if one expects to\nbe conscious throughout this eternity. \n\n Many atheists believe that the thirst for an afterlife is simply the\nproduct of propaganda (\"Friend, do you want the FREE gift of e-ternal life?\"\nIt's my understanding that the early jews did not believe in an afterlife.\nCan anyone back me up on this?) combined with the survival instinct all\nanimals share. The difference is we have consciousness, and once we get the\nidea of eternal life drilled into our brains, we then desire a sort of\nsuper-survival. \n\n \n\n That would depend on what Heaven is like. If God is a King, and \nan eternity in heaven consists of giving thanks and praise to the King,\nI might opt for Hell. I read a lovely account of a missionary trying to\nconvert Eskimos to Christianity in the book _The Illusion of Immortality_\nby Corliss Lamont. The missionary started to speak about Heaven. \n\"Are there seals in heaven? Will we be able to go hunting?\" asked an\nEskimo. The missionary said no. The group of Eskimos then said something\nto the effect of, \"Well what good is your Heaven if there's no hunting?\nScram.\" I highly recommend the above book (IOI) to anyone who wants an\naccount of the other side of the immortality coin (that there is no \nimmortality). \n\n\n\n\n Pax,", "\nWe also cannot fail to note the intense suffering a devastation which has been\nwrecked on our world because of Christians -- who were certain they were\nfollowing Christ. From Captialist who have polluted the enviorment in strict\nobedience to the Gensis command to subdue the earth, to Nazi's who have\n\"justly\"\npunished the Jews for the killing Christ (as well as the other progroms), the\ninnocent women who were burned alive in accordance with \"you shall not allow a\nwitch to live\", the Moslems who were killed in the Crusades, the god-fearing\nmen destroyed by the inquistion. The religious wars in Spain, France, England,\netc. Christianity has undoubtedly caused the most suffering and needless loss\nof life by individuals whose certainity that they were following the\ninstructions therein, was unquestionable. There is much to grieve.", "\n\n This is a good point. Christ was hardly the only person who claimed to be\nthe Messiah--in fact, a number of \"Messiahs\" were active in the area from the\ntime of the Roman conquest to after the fall of Masada.\n Many of the statements made by the apostles--especially their repeated\nattempts to give Jesus a sword (give him military power) point to the fact that\nthey didn't realize the true nature of his reign until after the fact. Many of\nthe statements in the Bible can be seen as being oriented toward explaining \nthis new definition of \"Messiah\" to the Jews who were being preached to.", "Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one\nanother with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with\ngratitude in your hearts to God. \nColossians 3:16\n\nA reminder: These verses are from the New International Version. As with any\ntranslation, faithfulness to the original Hebrew and Greek may vary from time\nto time. If a verse sounds a little off occasionally, compare it with another\ntranslation or with the original texts, if you are able to do so.", "\n\nAnd you know why this is? Because you've conveniently _defined_ a theist as\nsomeone who can do no wrong, and you've _defined_ people who do wrong as\natheists. The above statement is circular (not to mention bigoting), and,\nas such, has no value.", "\nIt seems you lived a fairly 'wild life'-- my background is far more\ntraditional, mostly working, working, working. Maybe there's a clear\nindication that the way you lived your life produced a certain \namount of anxiety that needed to be released. Religion was one\npossible medicine. While my more stable environment didn't and \nstill does not produce the situation where I feel such guilt.\n\nThis is just one possible explanation why you feel this burden,\nwhile I haven't felt it so far.\n\nRegards,\nKent", "Mark Ashley's account of private revelation does not, as some might\nthink, contradict my posting in which I said that the Catholic Church\nbelieves that public revelation, on which Catholic doctrine is based,\nended with the death of St. John, the last Apostle. In that posting\nI made sure I used the word \"public\". Public revelation contains\nGod's truth intended for everyone to believe. The revelation contained\nin the Bible is a significant subset of public revelation. Private\nrevelation is revelation that God gives to an individual. He may speak\ndirectly to the individual, He may send an angel, or He may send the\nVirgin Mary or some lesser saint. The only person who is required to\nbelieve a private revelation is the person to whom it is revealed.\nDevotional practices may be based on reported private revelations,\nbut doctrines can not.\n\nWhen an alleged private revelation attracts sufficient attention, the\nChurch may investigate it. If the investigation indicates a likelihood\nthat the alleged private revelation is in fact from God, it will be\napproved. That means that it can be preached in the Church. However,\nit is still true that no one is required to believe that it came from\nGod. A Catholic is free to deny the authenticity of even the most\nwell attested and strongly approved private revelations, such as those\nat Fatima and Lourdes. (I suspect that few if any Catholics do reject\nFatima and Lourdes, but if any do their rejection of them does not\nmean they are not orthodox Catholics in good standing.)\n\nI do not have at hand a list of the criteria the Church uses in\nevaluating an alleged private revelation--it's not something I need\nevery day--but I know that one of the primary requirements is that\nnothing in the alleged private revelation can contradict anything\nknown through public revelation\n-------\nMarty Helgesen\nBitnet: mnhcc@cunyvm Internet: mnhcc@cunyvm.cuny.edu", " \n \nNo, the argument says John has known Q, ie a codified version of the logia,\nand not the original, assuming that there has been one. It has weaknesses,\nof course, like that John might have known the original, yet rather referred\nto Q in his text, or that the logia were given in a codified version in\nthe first place.\n \nThe argument alone does not allow a firm conclusion, but it fits well into\nthe dating usually given for the gospels.\n \n \n \nNot necessarily, Luke may have trusted the version he knew better than the\nversion given by Matthew. Improving on Matthew would give a motive, for\ninstance.\n \nAs far as I know, the theory that Luke has known Matthew is based on a\nstatistical analysis of the texts.\n \n \n \nYep, but it will take another day or so to get the source. I hope your German\nis good enough. :-)\n \n \n \nI still do not see how copies from 200 allow to change the dating of John.\n \n \n \nYes, but an if gives only possibilities and no evidence. The authencity of\nmany letters is still discussed. It looks as if conclusions about them are not\ndrawn because some pet dogmas of the churches would probably fall with them as\nwell.\n \n \n \nWell, rather like some newsletter of a political party reporting from the\nbig meeting. Not necessarily wrong, but certainly bad.\n \n \n \nYes, but the accuracy of their tradition is another problem.", "\"Hate the sin but love the sinner\"...I've heard that quite a bit recently, \noften in the context of discussions about Christianity and homosexuality...\nbut the context really isn't that important. My question is whether that\nstatement is consistent with Christianity. I would think not.\n\nHate begets more hate, never love. Consider some sin. I'll leave it unnamed\nsince I don't want this to digress into an argument as to whether or not \nsomething is a sin. Now lets apply our \"hate the sin...\" philosophy and see\nwhat happens. If we truly hate the sin, then the more we see it, the \nstronger our hatred of it will become. Eventually this hate becomes so \nstrong that we become disgusted with the sinner and eventually come to hate\nthe sinner. In addition, our hatred of the sin often causes us to say and \ndo things which are taken personally by the sinner (who often does not even \nbelieve what they are doing is a sin). After enough of this, the sinner begins\nto hate us (they certainly don't love us for our constant criticism of their\nbehavior). Hate builds up and drives people away from God...this certainly\ncannot be a good way to build love.\n\nIn the summary of the law, Christ commands us to love God and to love our \nneighbors. He doesn't say anything about hate. In fact, if anything, he \ncommands us to save our criticisms for ourselves. So, how are Christians\nsupposed to deal with the sin of others? I suppose that there is only one\nway to deal with sin (either in others or ourselves)...through prayer. We\nneed to ask God to help us with our own sin, and to help those we love \nwith theirs. Only love can conquer sin...hatred has no place. The best way to\nlove someone is to pray for them. \n\n- Scott", "\n\nI don't know why it is so obvious. We are not speaking of acts of the \nflesh. We are just speaking of emotions. Emotions are not of themselves\nmoral or immoral, good or bad. Emotions just are. The first step is\nnot to label his emotion as good or bad or to numb ourselves so that\nwe hide our true feelings, it is to accept ourselves as we are, as God\naccepts us. It seems that Paul's anger he has accepted and channeled\nit to a plea to all of us to refrain from passing judgement on those\nafflicted with a disease and to reach out to others. Give in? Calling\nhis arguments foolish, belittling them to only quarrels, avoiding action\nbecause of fear to give others a bad feeling, he's not forgiving?\n\nRe-think it, Aaron. Don't be quick to judge. He has forgiven those with\nAIDS, he has dealt with and taken responsibility for his feelings and made\nappropriate choices for action on such feelings. He has not given in to\nhis anger.", ": \n: If the Bible is such incredible proof of Christianity, then why aren't\n: the Muslims or the Hindus convinced?\n: \n: If the Qur'an is such incredible proof of Islam, then why aren't the\n: Hindus or the Christians convinced?\n\nIf God exists, why aren't atheists convinced?\n\n--", "\nAs a matter of fact, yes I do or at least I strive to. I will not\nbe so proud as to boast that my faith is 100%. I am still human\nand imperfect and therefore, liable to sin. Thankfully, there is\nopportunity for repentence and forgiveness.\n\nGod be with you,", "In emarsh@hernes-sun.Eng.Sun.COM (Eric \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHuh? Please explain. Is there a problem because I based my morality on \nsomething that COULD be wrong? Gosh, there's a heck of a lot of stuff that I \nbelieve that COULD be wrong, and that comes from sources that COULD be wrong. \nWhat do you base your belief on atheism on? Your knowledge and reasoning? \nCOuldn't that be wrong?\n\nMAC\n--\n****************************************************************\n Michael A. Cobb\n \"...and I won't raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois\n class to pay for my programs.\" Champaign-Urbana\n -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu", "\nI see no other way of interpreting them other than homosexuyality\nbeing wrong. Please tell me how these verses can be interpreted in\nany other way. I read them and the surrounding text.", "\n[insert huge deletion of all following material since it had little\nrelevance to what I've found]\n\nOK. The people before Jesus didn't have Jesus, right (so far, I've\nannounced that space is a vacuum)? The people who lived during the time\nJesus lived (especially disciples) were taught this: \"I tell you the\ntruth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He\nwill do even greater things than these, because I am going to the\nFather. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may\nbring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and\nI will do it.\" (John 14:12-14)\nSo, Jesus asked them to pray for things in his name. Since that time,\nthe request has been the same, not to ask for intercession from other\nbeings, but from Jesus. Remember that \"there is one God and one\nmediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as\na ransom for all men--the testimony given in its proper time.\" (1\nTimothy 2:5-6. Also, \"there have been many of those priests [talking\nabout priests among the Hebrews], since death prevented them from\ncontinuing in office; but because Jesus lives forever, he has a\npermanent priesthood. Therefore he is able to save completely those who\ncome to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.\"\n(Hebrews 7:23-25). Hebrews is also full of areas talking about Jesus\nbeing our mediator rather than any other man.\n\nJoe Fisher", "\nRiddle me this. If a god(s) exist why on earth should we grovel? Why on earth\nshould we give a damm at all? What evidence do you have that if such a\ncreature(s) exist it deserves anything beyond mild admiration or sheer\nhatred for what it/they have done in the past (whichever god(s) you care to\npick). That is assuming any records of their actions are correct.\n\nReligon offers a bliss bubble of self contained reality which is seperate\nfrom the physical world. Any belief system can leave you in such a state\nand so can drugs. God(s) are not a requirement. Only if you remove such\nuseless tappestry can you build a set of morals to build a society upon.\nIt is that or keep on exterminating those who don't believe (or converting\nthem).\n - Eric\n\nNEW VIRUSES:", "\nno, sheesh, didn't you know 666 is the beast's apartment? 667 is across the\nhall from the beast, and is his neighbor along with the rest of the 6th floor.\n\n\nThis doesn't seem discordant to you?", "\nIf I have a habit that I really want to break, and I am willing to\nmake whatever sacrifice I need to make to break it, then I do so.\nThere have been bad habits of mine that I've decided to put forth the\neffort to break, and I've done so; there have been other bad habits\nthat I've decided are not worth the effort to break. It's my choice,\neither way.\n\nI am my own master. I choose what I want to do. I weigh the benefits\nof my actions against their consequences, and I use my experience to\nhelp me deal with the unexpected, which in turn make me more experienced.\n\nI don't always succeed, but I never fail, either -- I learn.\n\nDo *you* have any habits you can't break? Why not?\n\n\nI have arrived at my own understanding of Christianity, just as you've\nprobably arrived at your own understanding of Islam that is most\nlikely very different from the way a Moslem thinks of his religion.\nAre you \"unable to master your lack of desire to understand even the\nslightest concept of the Quran\"? If that's different, then how is it\ndifferent from what you accuse me of? Can I accuse you of having no\ndesire to understand even the slightest concept of atheism?\n\n\nOf COURSE not. That's disgusting. For centuries, religions have been\ndiscriminating on sex and treating women as second-class humans;\nthat's one of the reasons I renounced my Christianity.\n\n\nNo. I don't insult people. Period. It's not in my nature, and it's\nnot something that I want to do, either.\n\n\nNot yet -- but my life is the ground I use to practice on. The fun is\nin the getting there!\n\n\nWe don't start out perfect; we've got to strive to be something\nbetter. I know my shortcomings, and I know my strengths, and I live\nmy life according to the decisions I make, and I am content to abide\nwith the consequences of my decisions as easily as I'll accept the\npraise for them. There have been times in my life when I've made\nmistakes, yes; I try to never make the same mistake twice.\n\n\nI regard Christ as a myth. I feel that there are far too many people\noffering far too many interpretations of what he supposedly said and\ndid. The only person who can really judge me is *me*. I choose the\nroads I travel, and I decide whether or not I want to reach the end of\nany given road or turn back -- and as long as I don't *always* turn\nback, there's no shame in it. When I need help, I seek out my friends.\n\n\nAnd you don't have a clue about what I'm saying, either. Open your\neyes and SEE; open your ears and LISTEN. I'm not just spouting off\nempty words. This is my LIFE, this is what gives me MEANING.\n\n\nHuh? You're going WAY off the track here.\n\nI say my mother loves me. How do I know, you ask? I can point to\ndefinite things she's done for me, and I can even just bring her to\nyou so you can ask her, face-to-face.\n\nYou say your deity loves you. How do you know, I ask? You can't even\nconvince me that it exists!\n\n\nIf any god dangles 'heaven' before me like a carrot, promising untold\npleasures to me if I'll only suspend my disbelief and ignore my\nrationality for just this once, then I would choose 'hell'. I can\n*not* lie to myself to placate another being, no matter how powerful\nit is.\n\nNote also that there are several gods trying to lure me this way:\nYahweh, Allah, Zeus, Odin, Ra... Please give me a solid reason to\nchoose one of them over the others.\n\n[ description of Kendigism deleted -- hee hee! ]\n\n\nThat paragraph demonstrates that you haven't listened to a single word\nI've said.\n\nHave you ever gone to an amusement park? Why? I mean, after a few\nhours, it closes, and nothing's different except that you're a few\ndollars lighter. Going to the amusement park doesn't do you any good\nat all. Why do you do such a meaningless thing?\n\nThe answer is that you think it's fun. You play the skee-ball over\nand over because you'd like to get better at it, even though you're\nnot going to win anything better than a stuffed animal even if you\nblow ten dollars on it. You ride the roller coaster because it's an\nthrilling experience, even though (because?) it scares the dickens out\nof you.\n\nIn the same way, I think life is fun. And I don't intend to leave the\namusement park of life until they close down for the night! :-D\n\n\nSo you (and your holy book) say. By the same token, therefore, Santa\nClaus delivers toys every xmas. Don't you see? I have NO REASON to\nbelieve that what you say is true. Please give me some reason that I\ncan't similarly apply to Santa Claus.\n\n\nI can't do it, because your existence means nothing more to me than\njust your communications over the net. You have no more bearing on\nnor importance in my life than that; remove it, and you will cease to\nbe significant to me.\n\nAre you thereby inferring that your deity is nothing more than a\ncollection of verses in a book, and cannot be supported without\ninvoking them?\n\nOr do you mean that the existence of your deity (and, in fact, any\nother deity that can be written about) is as real as your own\nexistence?\n\nWhy do you believe what you believe?\n", "Jeremiah:\n25:27 Therefore thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the LORD of\nhosts, the God of Israel; Drink ye, and be drunken, and spue, and\nfall, and rise no more, because of the sword which I will send among\nyou.\n25:28 And it shall be, if they refuse to take the cup at thine hand to\ndrink, then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Ye\nshall certainly drink.\n", "TRH> I hope you're not going to flame him. Please give him the same coutesy you'\nTRH> ve given me.\n\nBut you have been courteous and therefore received courtesy in return. This\nperson instead has posted one of the worst arguments I have ever seen\nmade from the pro-Christian people. I've known several Jesuits who would\nlaugh in his face if he presented such an argument to them.\n\nLet's ignore the fact that it's not a true trilemma for the moment (nice\nword Maddi, original or is it a real word?) and concentrate on the\nliar, lunatic part.\n\nThe argument claims that no one would follow a liar, let alone thousands\nof people. Look at L. Ron Hubbard. Now, he was probably not all there,\nbut I think he was mostly a liar and a con-artist. But look at how many\nthousands of people follow Dianetics and Scientology. I think the \nBaker's and Swaggert along with several other televangelists lie all\nthe time, but look at the number of follower they have.\n\nAs for lunatics, the best example is Hitler. He was obviously insane,\nhis advisors certainly thought so. Yet he had a whole country entralled\nand came close to ruling all of Europe. How many Germans gave their lives\nfor him? To this day he has his followers.\n\nI'm just amazed that people still try to use this argument. It's just\nso obviously *wrong*.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n", "\n\nNot to your satisfaction. But the arguments have convinced me, and others.", "\n\n\n\nWell, I am not Andy, but if you had familiarized yourself with some of\nthe current theories/hypotheses about abiogenesis before posting :-), you\nwould be aware of the fact that none of them claims that proteins were\nassembled randomly from amino acids. It is current thinking that RNA-\nbased replicators came before proteinaceous enzymes, and that proteins\nwere assembled by some kind of primitive translation machinery.\n\nNow respond to 2. :-)\n--Cornelius.", "This is an annual time of prayer organized by the Focus on the Family\norganization. If you have not heard about it on your Christian radio\nstation or at your local church, call them and they may be able to\ngive you the information.\n\nMany cities in the San Francisco bay area have local coordinators\norganizing the time and the place to meet to pray. In San Francisco,\nOakland, Berkeley, San Jose, people will be meeting at ~12:15pm at\neach city's City Hall.\n\nLast year, I attended at the Mountain View city hall. It was a very\nquiet and meaningful time of prayer.", "Eric (\"Damien\"?) was presenting his views on Christianity; I'll\nrespond to a few of his points:\n\n\nThis is certainly a valid objection to religion-as-explanation-of-\nnature. \n\nFortunately for the convenience of us believers, there is a class of\nquestions that can never be reduced away by natural science. For\nexample: why does the universe exist at all? After all, the time-space\nworld didn't have to exist. Why does *anything* exist? And: is it\npossible for persons (e.g. man) to come into being out of a purely\nimpersonal cosmos? These questions which look at the real mysteries of\nlife -- the creation of the world and of persons -- provide a permanent\nindicator that the meaning of life in the material world can only be\nfound *outside* that world, in its Source.\n\n\n\nWhen you say that man is *only* an animal, I have to think that you are\npresenting an unprovable statement -- a dogma, if you will. And one\nthe requires a kind of \"faith\" too. By taking such a hard line in\nyour atheism, you may have stumbled into a religion of your own.\n\nBut before you write off all Christianity as phony and shallow, I hope\nyou'll do a little research into its history and varieties, perhaps by\nreading Paul Johnson's \"A History of Christianity\". From your remarks,\nit seems that you have been exposed to certain types of Christian\nreligion and not others. Even an atheist should have enough faith in\nMan to know that a movement of 2000 years has to have some depth, and\nbe animated by some enduring values.\n\nWith best wishes,", "\nActually, I just think he's confused. *I'm* going to hell because I'm Gay,\nnot becuase I don't believe in God.\n\n(I wonder if that means I can't come to Tammy & Deans picnic?)", "\nAnd that, of course, is the point. You can't simply divide the\nworld into atheists and non-atheists on the basis of god-belief.\n\nIf all you care about is belief in a supernatural deity, and\nhave nothing to say about behaviour, then belief in a supernatural\nbeing is your criterion.\n\nBut once you start talking about behaviour, then someone's suscept-\nibility to be led by bad people into doing bad things is what you \nare - I assume - worried about.\n\nAnd in that area, what you care about is whether someone is sceptical,\ncritical and autonomous on the one hand, or gullible, excitable and\neasily led on the other.\n\nI would say that a tendency to worship tyrants and ideologies indicates\nthat a person is easily led. Whether they have a worship or belief \nin a supernatural hero rather than an earthly one seems to me to be\nbeside the point.", "\n\n\n\nLet me salute Gary Chin for speaking the gospel which is our source\nof life. Any who will follow his example, and accept the priorities\nChrist commands of us, that the weightier matters of the law are justice\nand mercy and good faith, is my brother or sister in Christ, and I will\nattend to such a person with humility and charity. We may not, in the\nend, agree -- siblings often don't -- but we can at least talk.\n\n", "\nSorry if this is late for the thread, but...\n\nI thought God was supposed to be constant and never-changing. How do\nyou reconcile this common Christian view with the paragraph above?\n\nAlso, while we're at it:\n\n1. How do you reconcile \"A KIND and LOVING God!!\" with the\nJudeo-Christian view that sin was at one time \"immediately punishable\nby death\"? Was killing people for sinning God's way of showing\nKINDness and LOVE?\n\n2. Is the fact the He no longer does this an admission on His part of\nhaving made a mistake?\n\n3. Now that we are \"living in the age of grace\", does this mean that\nfor our sins, God now damns us to eternal hell after we die, rather\nthan killing us immediately? If so, is this eternal damnation an\nexample of \"A KIND and LOVING God!!\"?\n\nJust curious.", "\nWell, where is he? Another false Messiah shot down in flames.\n\nMatthew 24:4\n \"Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my\n name, claiming, 'I am the Christ', and will deceive many.\"\n\nMatthew 24:23\n \"At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!'\n or 'There he is!' do not believe it. For false Christs and \n false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles\n to deceive even the elect - if that were possible. See, I have\n told you ahead of time.\"\n\nDo we listen? Sadly, not all of us do.\n\nPeace be with you, and condolences to the families of those lost at\nWaco.\n\nMalcolm Lee ", "Dishonest money dwindles away, but he who gathers money little by little makes\nit grow. \nProverbs 13:11\n", "qpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo)\n\n\nFor my money the primary danger of anti-cult groups is that they are\nevery bit as wacky as the groups they oppose and that by and large\nthey have no compunctions about printing lies, half-truths and\nmisleading innuendos as part of their exposes. A recent book on\ncults I picked up by a \"Christian\" author quite simply mixed in\nall non-Christian religions (except the Jews) and various New Age\ngroups with various fringe groups of dubious intent and legality.\n\n\nGiven the record of American Christianity, any group that falls\ninto the category of fundamentalist or born-again is automatically\ninto the Inquisition business. It is an unavoidable affliction\nof those who have a proprietary license on The Truth (tm).\nAnd let's not forget that Jonestown and the Branch Davidians are\njust as much a part of the Christian tradition as the Missouri Synod\nLutherans, and may in fact be the Massadas of true Christian believers.\n\nI am far more concerned about the encroachment of overtly Christian\nindoctrination into public schools than I am about yoga classes there.\n\nFor those concerned with religious freedom without a selective\ninquisitiorial bent:\n\nPeople for the American Way\nP.O. Box 96200\nWashington, DC 20077-7500\n\nAmericans United for Separation of Church & State\n8120 Fenton Street\nSilver Spring, MD 20910-9978", "\n When he came near the place where the road goes down the Mount of Olives,\nthe whole crowd of disciples began joyfully to praise God in loud voices for\nall the miracles they had seen: \nLuke 19:37\n", "\n\n\n\nSure, a person could have great respect for Jesus and yet be an \natheist. (Having great respect for Jesus does not necessarily mean \nthat one has to follow the Christian [or Muslim] interpretation of \nhis life.) ", "\n\nWas it Pascal, or maybe Descartes, who first used this figure of speech? \nI seem to have some vague recollections from reading some of their essays,\nbut I certainly couldn't say it was one of them for sure.\n", "\nAlan> 2. We can also analyze to whom the Lord is addressing: \"Marvel\nAlan> not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again\" (John 3:7).\nAlan> Here Jesus is clearly directing his remarks to Nicodemus -- a\nAlan> ruler of the Jews (not a child).\n\nYes, but Jesus also made a very general and doctrinal statement\nin the same conversation:\n\n\"Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.\"\n(John 3:6)\n\nClearly infants are not born of the spirit. Thus, without baptism\nthey are unspiritual. They are not born with the image of God, but in\nAdam's fallen image (cf. Gen 5:3). They have no righteousness of\ntheir own, just as adults have no righteousness of their own. There\nis only the imputed righteousness of Christ, which believers receive\nthrough faith.\n\nAlan> 3. We can ask ourselves why the Lord would even introduce the\nAlan> concept of spiritual re-birth through baptism if newborn babies\nAlan> weren't free from sin?\n\nYour point is a little obscure here, but I think you are saying\nthat Christ used the \"innocence\" of newborn babes as a metaphor\nfor spiritual re-birth. But this is not what he did.\nIf you look at the text, he did not speak\nof spiritual re-birth but of spiritual birth. We are\nborn of the Spirit once, not twice or several times.\nWe are also born of the flesh once. The Lord makes it\nclear that these are separate and different events.\nIt is true that other Scriptures refer to spiritual\nbirth as re-birth because it is a second birth\n(for example, Titus 3:5). But it is not a second\n*spiritual* birth.\n\nThe only thing the two births have in common is the concept of birth,\nwhich is used as a symbol of `new life' -- not of innocence. When an\ninfant is born (or conceived) a new life is begun--but it is neither\ninnocent nor righteous. Similarly when that same individual is\nbaptized, or perhaps when they believe prior to baptism, they begin a\nnew life in Christ (Romans 6:3, Colossians 2:12, Titus 3:5, Ephesians\n2:5). Then the believer has God's assurance of the forgiveness of\ntheir sins, and of Christ's imputed righteousness.\n\nFor references, see \n\tThe Augsburg Confession Article II, Original Sin, \n\tThe Apology to the Augsburg Confession, \n\t\tArticle II, Original Sin, \n\tthe Formula of Concord, Article I, Original Sin, and \n\tLuther's Large Catechism, Part 4, Baptism. \n\nFor something more recent, see \"Baptized into God's Family: The\nDoctrine of Infant Baptism\" by Andrew Das, available from Northwestern\nPublishing House. Andrew is a graduate of Concordia Lutheran\nSeminary, St. Louis, and is now pursuing doctoral studies at Yale\nDivinity School.", "The parable of the Prodigal Son is not about who is and who isn't an\nimmoral person. It is about grace and the love of God. Most people\nwould agree with that concerning the younger son. The elder son is\nsimply a negative example of the some thing. He thinks that he must\nearn his father's love, that he has earned it, that he is entitled\nto it. His father tells him that he is on the wrong track. He has always\nbeen loved--for the same reason his brother has always been: he is\nhis father's son.\n\nWe are too performance oriented to consistently get the point. We are\nwilling to be saved by grace, but once we are Christians we want to\ngo back to earning and deserving.\n\n\"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying\n to attain your goal by human effort?\" Gal 3:3 NIV", "Easy vs. Hard .....Easy on who?\n\nI had a rare very personal talk with my mother last year. She said\nthat when she and my father were raising we four children, they\ndid not try to raise us in this world as strictly as they were raised\nin their Norwegian Lutheran community. They felt that we would be\nalienated from them and it would create problems.\n In other words, my parent did the very tolerant, loving thing. They\nraised us without conflict, without what we saw as unreasonable\ndemands and were always accepting, no matter what the circumstances.\n What happened was that I grew up believing in situation ethics and\nnever absolutes. I believed in a loving God, and my concept of God\nnever involved justice or punishment, nor was there any concept that\nI may someday be held responsible for the things that offended\nHim...sins that the \"world\" told me were OK.\n My parents are very good, honest and moral people. They raised\nfour extremely honest children. Yet, before coming to a more\ncomplete knowledge of God (which includes the knowledge of justice\nand punishment)I committed what I now believe to be many, many\ngrave sins. I lived with a partner outside of marriage, was married\nand divorced ( only after physical abuse and no apparent hope for\nchange...but I shouldn't have married to person in the first place )\nand more....\n My parents felt they were doing the loving,kind thing by allowing\nus to be who we were, by not imposing their standards on us, and by\naccepting unquestioningly everything we did without judgement or\ncounsel.\n Today, it is absolutely appalling for me to look back on what they\n*did* accept without a word. It takes courages to dare to help souls\nbecause you must speak up and say what is unpopular and\ndifficult and what people do not want to hear. You must be able\nto say what is hard, and say it as Christ would, with love and\ncompassion. It involves risk....perhaps someone you love may not\nwant to hear and will stay away from you.\n This life is \"but dust\". As long as the comfort of this life\nis our highest priority, we will fail God and fail those\nwith whom we come in contact.\n I wonder how many who engage in sex outside of marriage, who\nsupport the \"right\" to abortion, who engage in homosexuality,\nor who commit any of the range of sins that are plentiful in\nthis time have ever heard from a quiet, thoughtful, loving\nfriend that these things are *wrong*. No one ever told me that\nwhat I was doing was wrong, and I saw multitudes around me\nliving the same way I was and they seemed like good, decent\npeople. (wouldn't kick dogs or beat the elderly or babies..)\nIt is more difficult for sinners without a genuine prayer\nlife to hear the Holy Spirit than it is to hear a loving friend.\nThink about this the next time the Holy Spirit tells you that\na friend is in error, but you don't want to \"cause trouble\".\nRighteous prayers is great power, but don't forget that we are\nwe are Christ's lips and hands on earth. Don't be afraid to\nsimply voice Truth when the situation calls for it. Say a\nfervent prayer and ask the Holy Spirit for Love and guidance.\nIn more ways than we may realize, we *are* our brother's\nkeeper.", "\n\n\tI disagree: every proposition needs a certain amount of evidence \nand support, before one can believe it. There are a miriad of factors for \neach individual. As we are all different, we quite obviously require \ndifferent levels of evidence.\n\n\tAs one pointed out, one's history is important. While in FUSSR, one \nmay not believe a comrade who states that he owns five pairs of blue jeans. \nOne would need more evidence, than if one lived in the United States. The \nonly time such a statement here would raise an eyebrow in the US, is if the \nindividual always wear business suits, etc.\n\n\tThe degree of the effect upon the world, and the strength of the \nclaim also determine the amount of evidence necessary. When determining the \nlevel of evidence one needs, it is most certainly relevent what the \nconsequences of the proposition are.\n\n\n\n\tIf the consequences of a proposition is irrelvent, please explain \nwhy one would not accept: The electro-magnetic force of attraction between \ntwo charged particles is inversely proportional to the cube of their \ndistance apart. \n\n\tRemember, if the consequences of the law are not relevent, then\nwe can not use experimental evidence as a disproof. If one of the \nconsequences of the law is an incongruency between the law and the state of \naffairs, or an incongruency between this law and any other natural law, \nthey are irrelevent when theorizing about the \"Truth\" of the law.\n\n\tGiven that any consequences of a proposition is irrelvent, including \nthe consequence of self-contradiction or contradiction with the state of \naffiars, how are we ever able to judge what is true or not; let alone find\n\"The Truth\"?\n\n\n\n\tBy the way, what is \"Truth\"? Please define before inserting it in \nthe conversation. Please explain what \"Truth\" or \"TRUTH\" is. I do think that \nanything is ever known for certain. Even if there IS a \"Truth\", we could \nnever possibly know if it were. I find the concept to be meaningless.\n\n--\n\n\n \"Satan and the Angels do not have freewill. \n They do what god tells them to do. \"", "\n\nLet us explore this interesting paragraph point by point, sentence by\nsentence.\n\n\n1) We are talking about origins, not merely science.\n\nOrigins of what? Are we speaking of the origins of life, the human\nspecies, the universe, physical law, biological diversity or what?\n\n2) Science cannot explain origins.\n\nThis is a false statement unless it is carefully qualified. It depends\non what origins we are talking about.\n\n3) For a person to exclude anything but science from the issue of origins\nis to say that there is no higher truth than science.\n\nAgain, this is a false statement. To begin with, the notion of \"higher\ntruth\" is distinctly dubious. Many people believe that there are ways\nto ascertain truth that are not in the repetoire of science; they even\nbelieve that there are ways that are more reliable and certain. Many\nbelieve that there are truths that cannot be expressed using the language\nof science. Let it be so. These truths are neither \"higher\" or \n\"lower\"; they are simply true.\n\nMore to the point, restricting one's discussion of origins to science\ndoes not reject other sources of knowledge; it simply restricts the\nscope of discussion.\n\n4) This is a false premise.\n\nIf this is intended as asserting that the previous sentence was false\nthen (4) is actually true. However the context identifies it as another\nfalse [or at least theologically unsound] statement.\n\n5) By the way, I enjoy science.\n\nOn the evidence Mr. Rawlins lacks sufficient understanding of science\nto enjoy science in any meaningful sense. One might just as well say\nthat one enjoys literature written in a language that one cannot read.\nHowever one cannot mark this sentence as false -- to follow the analogy,\nperhaps he likes the pretty shapes of the letters.\n\n6) It is truly a wonder observing God's creation.\n\nLet us not quibble; count this one as true.\n\n7) Macroevolution is a mixture of 15 percent science and 85 percent\nreligion [guaranteed within three percent error :) ]\n\nStill another false statement. However one can make it come out true\nwith the following contextual modification:\n\n\"Macroevolution, as misunderstood by Rawline, is a mixture of 15 percent\nof what Rawlins erroneously thinks of as science, and 85 percent of\nwhat Rawlins erroneously thinks of as religion.\"\n\n-----\n\nIt is distinctly noticeable that Mr. Rawlins fails miserably to touch\non truth except when he reports personally on what he feels. [I do\nhim the justice of assuming that he is not misinforming us as to his\npersonal reactions.] One can account for this by the hypothesis that\nhe has an idiosyncratic and personal concept of truth.", "Often times (most recently on this list in the last few days) I've\nheard the passage from revelation:\n\n\t\"...whoever adds to the sacred words of this book...whoever removes\n\t words from this book...\" \n\n\t used as an arguement against the deutercanonical books.\n\n\t I feel this is ridiculous for two reasons:\n\n\t 1. They weren't added later by the Catholic Church; they were\n\t\t*always* part of what was considered inspired scripture.\n\t\t(This has been dealt with in previous postings...no reason\n\t\tto repeat the info.)\n\n\t2. It is more likely than not that when St. John (or whomever) wrote\n\t\tthe book of Revelation WHAT WAS THEN CONSIDERED SCRIPTURE was\n\t\t** NOT ** the same thing you and I are holding in our hands!\n\n\tIf one takes the translation of \"this book\" in REV 18:22 (or somewhere\n\taround there) to mean \"all of scripture\", then all of us are likely\n\tholding something that is in violation of this command.\n\n\tIt is impossible to exactly date the scriptures, even the N.T. ones\n\t(they didn't like to date their letters, I guess). I really wish I\n\thad my bible with me right now to get the facts straight, but I believe\n\tthat several of the N.T. letters, chief among them 2 Peter, have their\n\tmost likely date of composition in the early second century A.D.\n\t\tRevelation was almost certainly written durin the reign of \n\tDomition (sp?), A.D. 80-96. Thus it could be argues that we are all\n\tin sin if we accept 2 Peter as scripture, since it was \"added\" to the\n\tbook after the composition of Revelation, when we are told to add \n\tnothing more.", "\n\"Isaac Asimov read creationist books. He read the Bible. He had ample\nopportunity to kneel before his Creator and Savior. He refused. In\nfact, he sent out a strong promotional letter urging support of the\nAmerican Humanist Association, shortly before he died.\"\n\n --excerpt from Ken Ham, \"Asimov Meets His Creator,\" _Back to Genesis_\n No. 42, June 1992, p. c (included in _Acts & Facts_ vol. 21, no. 6,\n June 1992, from the Institute for Creation Research). This is one\n of the most offensive articles they've ever published--but at least\n it argues *against* a deathbed conversion. There's a part of the\n article even worse than what I've just quoted, in which an excerpt\n from a reader's letter says that if Asimov is burning in hell now,\n \"then he certainly has had a 180-degree change in his former beliefs\n about creation and the Creator.\" (A post-deathbed conversion.)", "\nConsider special relativity. It hasn't be proved, nor has it been\ndisproved. No one has a proof one way or the other, but many people\nare interested in it!\n \nI've satisfied myself that nothing could indicate absolutely the\nexistence of God one way or the other. The two possibilities\nare supernaturalism and naturalism. Of course no set of circumstances can\nbe inconsistent with supernaturalism, but similarly, no set of circumstances\ncan be inconsistent with naturalism. In naturalism, any phenomenon that\ncould be described as God is considered part of the natural world, to\nbe studied as any other natural phenomenon (gravity, for instance). \nFor example, if a loud ``godlike'' voice vociferously announced, ``I\nam God, I exist, and I will prove it by reversing the force of gravity,''\nand if then gravity did indeed reverse, a naturalist (probably a scientist)\nwould say, ``Boy, we sure didn't understand gravity as well as we\nthought we did, and that loud voice is something new. Perhaps we\ndidn't understand thunder as well as we thought we did either.''\n\n\nI'm sure glad you don't know where I live, since you don't seem\nto realize it is impossible for you to distinguish between voices\nin your head, and God's voice.\n\n\nYou seem to have missed my point. Even if Jim Jones and David Koresh\nwere not religious people, my point remains that faith and dogma\nare dangerous, and religion encourages them. Jim Jones and David Koresh\nalso encouraged them. My point does not rely on Jim Jones and David\nKoresh being religious.", "Hello.\nI just like to share this rosary and other prayer propagation\npractice we do in my country. I am not sure if it is going on\nalso here in the US or any other country. In all these 4 1/2\nyrs. I've been here in Illinois, USA, I have not encountered\nit. May I just call it \"Traveling Fatima\" since I don't know\nof an exact translation of what we call it in my native language.\n\nFor certain regions in a district in a town or city, an image/\nstatue of our Lady of Fatima is moved from one home (originating\nfrom owner) to another. This will stay with that family for\none (1) week and this family is required to pray the rosary and\nother prayers (prayer sheets accompany the image) to our Lady\nof Fatima. The move will be like a simple procession of folks\npicking up the image from its current 'home' after 'departing'\nprayers and proceeds to move it to the next home which has the\nprior notification about the move. There will be the 'receiving'\nprayers at the next home to welcome our Lady of Fatima image\nthere. It does not have to be that only members of the family\nin that home who must pray to the image. They may invite others\n(or others/friends can invite themselves in ;^)) to participate\nduring prayer time in that 'new' home everyday for one week.\nThis image is moved from one family to the next within the\nbounded region of that district, until it goes back to the owner\nof the image.\n\nThis is probably going on around there (Philippines) right now\n(or somebody correct me when exactly since I forgot) and every\nyear, this is part of our devotion to our Lady of Fatima.\n\nIt has been easy to facilitate this back home because it is more\nlikely that your next door neighbor is a Catholic and the image\nthen is just moved next door.\n\nI am thinking of starting something like it in the village where\nmy sister and her family lives. Most of our friends and neighbors\nthere are Catholics and practicing ones.\n\nI'd like to know if there are any state/community laws that this \npractice will violate, whatsoever, before I go for it. Thank you \nfor any comments or help about this matter.\n\n\n\n\n", "Fred Gilham asks (May 11) whether it is true that Kurt Goedel wrote\na version of the ontological argument for the existence of God.\n\nYes, he did. He did not publish it, but it will be published by the\nOxford University Press in German and with English translation in\nVolume 3, due to appear this fall, of his Collected Works.\n\nMeanwhile, you can find a summary, or perhaps the whole thing, in an\narticle by Jordan Howard Sobel called \"Goedel's ontological proof\"\nin the book ON BEING AND SAYING, edited by Judith Jarvis Thompson\n(sp?), published by the MIT Press in 1987.\n\nProfessor C Anthony Anderson of the Philosophy Department of the\nUniversity of Minnesota has written an article, \"Some Emendations of\nGoedel's Ontological Proof,\" which appeared in the magazine FAITH\nAND PHILOSOPHY, v. 7 (1990): 291-303. It discusses some objections\nthat various critics have raised against Goedel's proof, and offers\na revised version of the proof that is not vulnerable to these\nobjections.", "The following is a juxtaposition of part of an ancient text known as\n\"de Sacramentis\", usually attributed to St. Ambrose of Milan, and the\ncanon of the traditional Catholic Mass of the Roman rite. The\nconclusion from this comparison is that the central part of the\ntraditional Roman canon was already fairly well in place by sometime\nin the late 4th century.\n\nTaken from \"The Mass of the Western Rites\", by the Right Reverend Dom\nFernand Cabrol, Abbot of Farnborough, 1934, without permission.\nExcerpted from Chapter VI: THE MASS AT ROME, FROM THE FIFTH TO THE\nSEVENTH CENTURIES. The paragraph at the end is from the book, not me.\n\nSorry about the long lines.\n\nJoe Buehler\n\n-----\n\nTEXT OF DE SACRAMENTIS ROMAN CANON ROMAN CANON\n(about 400 AD) (1962 AD) (English translation)\n\n Te igitur ... (omitted here)\n Memento Domine ...\n Communicantes ...\n Hanc igitur oblationem ...\n\nFac nobis (inquit sacerdos), Quam oblationem tu Deus, in Do thou, O God, deign to\nhanc oblationem ascriptam, omnibus, quaesumus, bless what we offer, and\nratam, rationabilem, benedictam, adscriptam, make it approved,\nacceptabilem, quod figura ratam, rationabilem, effective, right, and\nest corporis et sanguinis acceptabilemque facere wholly pleasing in every\nJesu Christi. digneris: ut nobis corpus et way, that it may become\n sanguis fiat dilectissimi for our good, the Body\n Filii tui Domini nostri Jesu and Blood of Thy dearly\n Christi. beloved Son, Jesus Christ\n our Lord.\n\nQui pridie quam pateretur, Qui pridie quam pateretur, Who, the day before He\nin sanctis manibus suis accepit panem in sanctas ac suffered, took bread into\naccepit panem, respexit in venerabiles manus suas: et His holy and venerable\ncaelum ad te, sancte Pater elevatis oculis in ccelum, hands, and having raised\nomnipotens, aeterne Deus, ad Te Deum Patrem suum His eyes to Heaven, unto\nGratias agens, benedixit, omnipotentem, tibi gratias Thee, O God, His Almighty\nfregit, fractum quae agens, benedixit, fregit, Father, giving thanks to\napostolis suis et discipulis deditque discipulis suis Thee, He blessed it, broke\nsuis tradidit dicens: dicens: accipite et it, and gave it to His\naccipite et edite ex hoc manducate ex hoc omnes: hoc disciples, saying: Take ye\nomnes: hoc est enim corpus est enim corpus meum. all and eat of this:\nmeum, quod pro multis For this is my Body.\nconfringetur.\n\nSimiliter etiam calicem Simili modo postquam In like manner, when the\npostquam caenatum est, caenatum est, accipiens et supper was done, taking\npridie quam pateretur, hunc praeclarum calicem in also this goodly chalice\naccepit, respexit in sanctas ac venerabiles manus into His holy and\ncaelum ad te, sancte pater suas item tibi gratias venerable hands, again\nomnipotens, aeterne Deus, agens, benedixit deditque giving thanks to Thee,\ngratias agens, benedixit, discipulis suis, dicens: He blessed it, and gave it\napostolis suis et discipulis accipite et bibite ex eo to His disciples, saying:\nsuis tradidit, dicens: omnes: Hic est enim calix Take ye all, and drink of\naccipite et bibite ex hoc sanguinis mei, novi et this: For this is the\nomnes: hic est enim sanguis aeterni testamenti: Chalice of my Blood of the\nmeus. mysterium fidei; qui pro new and eternal covenant;\n vobis et pro multis the mystery of faith,\n effundetur in remissionem which shall be shed for\n peccatorum. you and for many unto the\n forgiveness of sins.\n\n Haec quotiescumque feceritis As often as you shall do\n in mei memoriam facietis. these things, in memory of\n Me shall you do them.\n\nErgo memores gloriosissimae Unde et memores, Domine, nos Mindful, therefore, O\nejus passionis et ab inferis servi tui, sed et plebs tua Lord, not only of the\nresurrectionis, in caelum sancta, ejusdem Christi blessed Passion of the\nascensionis, offerimus tibi Filii tui Domini nostri, tam same Christ, Thy Son, our\nhanc immaculatam hostiam, beatae passionis necnon et Lord, but also of His\nhunc panem sanctum et ab inferis resurrectionis, resurrection from the\ncalicem vitae aeternae; sed et in caelos gloriosae dead, and finally His\n ascensionis: offerimus glorious ascension into\n praeclarae majestati tuae de Heaven, we, Thy ministers,\n tuis donis ac datis, hostiam as also Thy holy people,\n puram, hostiam sanctam, offer unto Thy supreme\n hostiam immaculatam, Panem majesty, of the gifts\n sanctum vitae aeternae, et bestowed upon us, the\n Calicem salutis perpetuae. pure Victim, the holy\n Victim, the all-perfect\n Victim: the holy Bread of\n life eternal and the\n Chalice of unending\n salvation.\n\net petimus et precamur, ut Supra quae propitio ac And this do Thou deign to\nhanc oblationem suscipias in sereno vultu respicere regard with gracious and\nsublimi altari tuo per manus digneris: et accepta habere, kindly attention and hold\nangelorum tuorum sicut sicuti accepta, habere acceptable, as Thou didst\nsuscipere dignatus es munera dignatus es munera pueri tui deign to accept the\npueri tui justi Abel et justi Abel, et sacrificium offerings of Abel, Thy\nsacrificium patriarchae patriarchae nostri Abrahae, just servant, and the\nnostri Abrahae et quod tibi et quod tibi obtulit summus sacrifice of Abraham our\nobtulit summus sacerdos sacerdos tuus Melchisedech patriarch, and that which\nMelchisedech. sanctum sacrificium, Thy chief priest\n immaculatam hostiam. Melchisedech offered unto\n Thee, a holy sacrifice and\n a spotless victim.\n\n Supplices te rogamus, Most humbly we implore\n omnipotens Deus: jube haec Thee, almighty God, bid\n perferri per manus sancti these offerings to be\n Angeli tui in sublime altare brought by the hands of\n tuum in conspectu divinae Thy holy angel unto Thy\n majestatis tuae: etc. altar above; before the\n face of Thy Divine\n Majesty; etc.", "\n\nProtestants love to play up Jerome for all he is worth. They should\nremeber that after the Decree of Pope St. Damsus I, Jerome did not\nhesitate in accpeting the deuteroncanon, and quoted them as Scripture in\nhis later writings. And as I have already pointed out, in a previous\nletter on this subject, the Catholic Church has accepted the\ndeuterocanon from the beginning. And the Protestants in the 1500's all\nof a sudden revived the old theory of some, condemned by Pope, Council,\nand Church, that the deuterocanon were not inspired.\n\nAgain, why must the Church of Jesus Christ adopt the canon of the\nunbelieving Jews, drawn up in Jamnia in 90 AD, in countering the\nChristian use of the Septuagint. ^^^^^", "\n\nAlmost one third of the world's population claim to be Christian. But\nany similarity between their beliefs and lifestyle to the first century\nmodel is purely coincidental. At Luke 18:8 it states, \"...nevertheless,\nwhen the son of man returns, will he really find the faith on the earth?\"\n", "\nIf I believed in the God of the bible I would be very fearful of making\nthis statement. Doesn't it say those who judge will be judged by the\nsame measure? \n\n\nA God who must motivate through fear is not a God worthy of worship.\nIf the God Jesus spoke of did indeed exist he would not need hell to\nconvince people to worship him.\n\n\nIt was the myth of hell that made me finally realize that the whole thing\nwas untrue. If it hadn't been for hell I would still be a believer today.\nThe myth of hell made me realize that if there was a God that he was not\nthe all knowing and all good God he claimed to be. Why should I take such\na being at his word, even if there was evidence for his existance?\n", "\nJim, please, that's a lame explanation of the trinity that Jesus provides\nabove. Baptizing people in the name of three things != trinity. If\nthis is the case, then I'm wrong, I assumed that trinity implies that\nGod is three entities, and yet the same.\n\nCheers,\nKent", "\n\nOh, Bobby. You're priceless. Did I ever tell you that?\n\nMy policy with Bobby's posts, should anyone give a damn, is to flick\nthrough the thread at high speed, searching for posts of Bobby's which\nhave generated a whole pile of followups, then go in and extract the\nhilarious quote inevitably present for .sig purposes. Works for me.\n\nFor the guy who said he's just arrived, and asked whether Bobby's for real,\nyou betcha. Welcome to alt.atheism, and rest assured that it gets worse.\nI have a few pearls of wisdom from Bobby which I reproduce below. Is anyone\n(Keith?) keeping a big file of such stuff?\n\n \"In Allah's infinite wisdom, the universe was created from nothing,\n just by saying \"Be\", and it became. Therefore Allah exists.\"\n --- Bobby Mozumder proving the existence of Allah, #1\n\n \"Wait. You just said that humans are rarely reasonable. Doesn't that\n contradict atheism, where everything is explained through logic and\n reason? This is THE contradiction in atheism that proves it false.\"\n --- Bobby Mozumder proving the existence of Allah, #2\n\n \"Plus, to the believer, it would be contradictory\n to the Quran for Allah not to exist.\"\n --- Bobby Mozumder proving the existence of Allah, #3\n\nand now\n\n \"One thing that relates is among Navy men that get tatoos that say \"Mom\",\n because of the love of their mom. It makes for more virile men. Compare\n that with how homos are raised. Do a study and you will get my point.\"\n -- Bobby Mozumder being Islamically Rigorous on alt.atheism\n\nMmmmm. Quality *and* quantity from the New Voice of Islam (pbuh).\n\nCheers\n\nSimon", "\n\nPlease note that God commanded Adam to work before the fall:\n\n\"The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work\n it and take care of it.\" (Gen 2:15, NIV). \n\nWork was God's design from the beginning.\n\n-- \nKen", "\nNot entirely. Its not a premise, its a conclusion. Second, that scientists\n(for the most part) exlude the possibility is not a problem, its a necessity. \nScientists are empircists, not theologians.\n\n\nSo do scientists, and long before you did. Clearly you have a deep and \nfundamental misunderstanding of science.\n\n\nAbsolutely and utterly false (except for some were AMHs). Lucy (Australopithecus\nafarensis, ca. 3 to 3.25 mya) is 40% complete, and about 80% taking into \nconsideration bilateral symmetry. Lucy walked upright and bipedally, just \nlike humans, and the two share a remarkably similar dental pattern. Her\ncranial morphology is unlike humans or modern apes. There are hundreds of \nother specimens of this and other species, of which only some are *partially* \nreconstructed. They exist Bill. You can touch them, feel them, hold them. \nBut forget hominids. The earth, the universe, the cultural record all look and \ntest out as ancient indeed. They are not reconstructions. Has God has tricked\nus here too? It won't go away, Bill.\n \n\n\nSo *you* and other fundamentalists say. What about the billions who don't \nsay so? Beware of people who say they have the truth, Bill, and reconsider\neach time you think you do.\n\n\nThat was not your point, Bill. Your point above was God *has* the power ....\nScientists generally agree with that. That's a far cry from saying God did.\nPlease attempt to understand your own posts.\n \n\nI have your info, and I have replied - several days ago. Hope you have it. \nSomehow your post above appeared at my server only today.\n", "The LAW of RETRIBUTION\n \n Violent crime, racism, bigotry, domestic abuse, rape, \n police brutality and oppression, human rights violations, \n etc., ETC., continue to get worse and worse in spite of more \n and more man-made laws on all levels from local ordinances to \n international law. \n \n The man-made laws are NOT working. \n\n \"WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE!\" \n Perpetrators remain IGNORANT of The LAW--a universal, cosmic, \n and Spiritual Law--The \"LAW of RETRIBUTION\" or \"KARMA\": \n \n \"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a \n man soweth, that shall he also reap.\" Galatians 6:7, KJV. \n \n \"He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity; \n he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. \n Here is the patience and faith of the saints.\" Revelation \n 13:10, KJV. \n \n \"What goes around comes around.\"\n\n This LAW of the Universe is just as real as the physical \n law that for every action there is an equal and opposite \n REaction. \n \n It is the ENFORCEMENT, the TEETH, behind The \"GOLDEN \n RULE\": \"Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.\" \n\n ALL perpetrators in the present will become VICTIMS in \n the future, most likely in a FUTURE INCARNATION. Most \n victims in the present were PERPETRATORS in the past, usually \n during a PREVIOUS LIFE. \n \n What is needed is a MASSIVE WORLDWIDE PROGRAM of \n EDUCATION to teach ALL present and potential perpetrators, in \n a convincing manner (with sufficient supporting evidence), \n that what they do to others WILL BE DONE TO THEM, in this \n life or the next. \n \n Anyone who doubts the FACT of REINCARNATION, and the \n related \"LAW of Retribution\", should read books such as \"HERE \n AND HEREAFTER\", by Ruth Montgomery, which describes several \n kinds of evidence supporting REincarnation, including \n HYPNOTIC REGRESSION to past lives [about 50% accurate; the \n subconscious mind can sometimes make things up, especially \n with a bad hypnotist], SPONTANEOUS RECALL (especially by \n young children, some of whom can identify their most recent \n previous relatives, homes, possessions, etc.), DREAM RECALL \n of past life experiences, DEJA VU (familiarity with a far off \n land while traveling there for the first time on vacation), \n the psychic readings of the late EDGAR CAYCE, and EVEN \n SUPPORTING STATEMENTS FROM THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE including \n Matthew 17:11-13 (John the Baptist was the REINCARNATION of \n Elias.) and John 9:1-2 (How can a person POSSIBLY sin before \n he is born, unless he LIVED BEFORE?!). \n \n Strong INTERESTS, innate TALENTS, strong PHOBIAS, etc., \n typically originate from a person's PAST LIVES. For example, \n a strong fear of swimming in or traveling over water usually \n results from having DROWNED at the end of a PREVIOUS LIFE. \n And sometimes a person will take AN IMMEDIATE DISLIKE to \n another person being met for the first time in their PRESENT \n life, because of a bad encounter with him during a PREVIOUS \n INCARNATION. \n\n People would behave much better toward each other if \n they knew that their actions in the present will SURELY be \n reaped by them in the future, or in a FUTURE INCARNATION! \n\n \n For more information, answers to your questions, etc., \n please consult my CITED SOURCES (books like \"HERE AND \n HEREAFTER\", by Ruth Montgomery). \n\n\n UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this \n IMPORTANT Information is ENCOURAGED. \n", "[..]\n\nPossibly the parallel just stems from your tending to use bad sources...\nAnyway, don't you think that similarity is rather shallow? You're only\nlooking at the surface, at the way of argumentation. \nAnd now you should perhaps go a little deeper and try to find the difference,\nfor example, find out whether you can find real science done by Hitching.\nIf you can't, will you then admit that your attempt at quoting an authority\nhas backfired?\n", "\n\nWhen Robert refers to the \"orthodox\", he is talking about the Historical\nposition of the Christian Faith. Such things are derived from Biblcal\ntexts through the centuries by the apocolic fathers of the faith.\n\nYou are right that people read things differently in the Bible, and this\nis alright in parts like parables and such forth. However, when it comes\nto the essential doctrines of the Historical Orthodox Christan Beliefs,\nthere is only one correct way to read it. For example, either the\ndoctrine of the Trinity is true, or it is false. Yes, people read the\ntexts differently, but only one position is true. They both cannot be.\nAccording to the text, the doctrine is true and has always existed.", "\nI'm sorry, but He does not! Ever read the FIRST commandment?\n", "Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above\nyourselves.", "\nI would recommend \"Essential Truthes of the Christian Faith\" by RC Sproul.\nIt is copywrited 1992 from Tyndale House Publishers. Sproul offers concise \nexplanations, in simple language, of around 100 different Christian \ndoctrines, grouped by subject. I think it would be particularly good for\nnewer Christians (and older Christians suffering spiritual malnutrition),\nas it gives a Biblically sound basic treatment of the issues, avoiding \nlong in-depth analysis that can wait until after you know the basics. \n", "In an earlier article, I explained that what many people find arrogant about\nChristians is that some Christians profess absolute certianty about their\nbeliefs and doctrines. That is, many Christians insist that they CANNOT have\nmade any mistakes when discovering their beliefs, which amounts to saying\nthat they are infallible.\n\nImpicitly claiming to be infallible is pretty arrogant, most of us will\nprobably agree.\n\nIn short, the problem is that no matter how good your sources are, if any\npart of your doctrines or beliefs rest on your own thinking and reasoning,\nthen those doctrines are suspect. So long as your own brain is involved,\nthere is a possibility for error. I summarised the problem by writing \"There\nis no way out of the loop.\"\n\n\nSomeone called `REXLEX' has claimed that there IS a way out of the loop, but\nhe did not bother to explain what it was, preferring instead to paraphrase\nSartre, ramble about Wittgenstein, and say that the conclusion of my argument\nleads to relativism.\n\nAs I have explained to him before, you cannot reject an argument as false\nbecause you dislike where it leads: the facts do not change just because\n\n\nHowever, as any first-year philosophy student can explain, what `REXLEX' has\nwritten does not constitute a refutation. All he has said is that he does\nnot like what I wrote -- he has done nothing at all to dispute it.\n\n *\n\nThere were two sentences in `REXLEX's post that seemed relevant to the\npoint at hand:\n\n\nI do not dispute that some truths can be verified through experience. I\nhave, for example, direct experience of adding numbers. I don't claim to\nbe infallible at it -- in fact I remember doing sums incorrectly -- but I\ndo claim that I have direct experience of reasoning about numbers.\n\nHowever, once we go past experiencing things and start reasoning about\nthem, we are on much shakier ground. That was the point of the earlier\narticle. Human brains are infested with sin, and they can only be trusted\nin very limited circumstances.\n\n\n\nBut how far does that get you? Once God's revelation stops, and your own\nreasoning begins, possibility for error appears.\n\nFor example, let's suppose that our modern Bible translations include a\nperfect rendering of Jesus words at the Last Supper, and that Jesus said,\nexactly, \"This is my body.\"\n\nWe'll presume that what he said was totally without error and absolutely\ntrue. What can we be certain of? Not much.\n\nAt the moment he stops speaking, and people start interpreting, the\npossibility of error appears. Did he mean that literally or not? We do\nnot have any record that he elaborated on the words. Was he thinking of\nTran- or Con- substatiation? He didn't say. We interpret this passage\nusing our brains; we think and reason and draw conclusions. But we know\nthat our brains are not perfect: our thinking often leads us wrong. (This\nis something that most of us have direct experience of. 8-)\n\nWhy should anyone believe that his reasoning -- which he knows to be\nfallible -- can lead him to perfect conclusions?\n\nSo, given the assumptions in this example, what we can be certain of is\nthat Jesus said \"This is my body.\" Beyond that, once we start making up\ndoctrines and using our brains to reason about what Christ revealed, we\nget into trouble.\n\nUnless you are infallible, there are very few things you can be certain\nof. To the extent that doctrines rely on fallible human thinking, they\ncannot be certain.\n\n\n\nThat is the problem of seeming arrogant. The non-Christians around us know\nthat human beings make mistakes, just as surely as we know it. They do not\nbelieve we are infallible, any more than we do.\n\nWhen Christians speak as if they believe their own reasoning can never lead\nthem astray -- when we implicitly claim that we are infallible -- the non-\nChristians around us rarely believe that implicit claim. Witnessing is\nhardly going to work when the person you are talking to believes that you\nare either too foolish to recognise your own limits, or intentionally trying\nto cover them up.\n\nI think it would be far better to say what things we are certain of and what\nthings we are only \"very confident\" of. For example, we might say that we\nknow our sin, for recognising sin is something we directly experience. But\nother things, whether based on reasoning from Scripture or extra-Biblical\nthinking, should not be labled as infallible: we should say that we are\nvery confident of them, and be ready to explain our reasoning.\n\nBut, so far as I am aware, none of us is infallible -- speaking or acting\nas if our thinking is flawless is ridiculous.\n\n *\n\n`REXLEX' suggested that people read _He is There and He is Not Silent_, by\nFrancis Schaeffer. I didn't think very highly of it, but I think that\nMr Schaeffer is grossly overrated by many Evangelical Christians. Somebody\nelse might like it, though, so don't let my opinion stop you from reading it.\n\nIf someone is interested in my opinion, I'd suggest _On Certainty_, by\nLudwig Wittgenstein.\n", "alt.religion.spam?\n", "\nDoes anyone know of an English language edition that does not show the\nverse (or even chapter) numbers. I have always thought that such an\nedition would be very useful - although hard to navigate around.\n\nI have a Scots NT that doesn't show verse numbers, and it is great to\nread, particularly longer narrative passages, but my Scots isn't quite\nup to doing proper study from this edition - I tend to use it to get a\n\"feel\" for a story, particularly in the gospels, and then use an\nEnglish edition to look for details.\n\nAlison", "He doesn't contradict himself. The church is to last for all time.\nHowever, there are those who use the church to bolster themselves. This\nis evident in many letters. For instance, Paul talks about the\n\"super-apostles\" to the Corinthians (2 Corinthians 11-12), he mentions\nhow people will be led away by miracles, signs, and wonders (2\nThessalonians 2:9-12), he tells Timothy that it is clear that some will\nabandon the faith and teach lies (1 Timothy 4:1-3) and that some will\nsearch for teachers to suit what they want to hear (2 Timothy 4:3-4).\nSuch passages go throughout the letters and Jesus does warn about them\n(Matthew 24:4-14). But look at the promise in this last part. Verse\n14: \"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world\nas a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.\" Even today,\nthere are false teachings. I can name two which I am well familiar\nwith: the non-need of baptism and the \"praying of Jesus into your life\nfor salvation\". Both are taught. Both are DEAD wrong. They have been\ntaken out of context from some verses, interpreted from others, and just\nplain made up. The ONLY way Jesus taught is given in Luke 9:23-26 and\nLuke 14:25-33. He then commands baptism in Matthew 28:18-20. The\nchurch Jesus founded, though, is alive and well. It's not being\npersecuted as much as back then (the laws won't allow it yet), but it is\nbeing persecuted.\n\nJoe Fisher", "[constitution sacrificed to the bandwidth gods]\n\nim glad i finally have heard exactly what the OTO is all about. i finally\nknow that i can stop looking, content i the knowlege that im not interested.\nit's tough enough listening to all the religions who refer to themselves as\n\"the One Truth\". How can i possibly accept it from a magical order? \"We have\nall the Answers and will give them to those who join us (and pay dues)?\"\nScary. Besides, answers are easy. Questions! now that's another story...\n\nrintaw\n", "Is life a pass/fail course, and does God grade on a\ncurve?\n\tI'm new here, and only vaguely religious, but I want to\nknow what some of you people think. Specifically, are there an\ninfinite number of Heavens, and a person goes to the one that\nhe/she deserves? Or is it simply Heaven or nothing (Hell?)\nAlso, are we \"graded\" by those around us, or has there always\nbeen some unchanging method? Is the person's childhood taken\ninto account?\n\tI'm sure these must sound like over-simplifications to\nmost of you, but I figure that you're the experts.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t-Quinn\n\n[Eschatology is an area on which Christians do not agree. I suspect\nthat's because our primary source of information is prophets and\nvisionaries, and their writings tend to be highly symbolic. However\nboth Jesus' teachings in the Gospels and books such as the Revelation\nto John talk primarily about the difference between eternal life and\neternal death. On a number of occasions Jesus does say things that\nimply some sort of differentiation, e.g. Lk 10:14 and a number of\nsimilar passages where Jesus says things like \"even XXX will be better\noff than you in the judgement.\" Also, I Cor 3 talks about someone who\ngets into heaven, but by the skin of his teeth, as it were. But these\npassages are not normally interpreted as suggesting separate heavens,\nso much as differing levels of prestige or punishment in heaven or\nhell (and not all Christians would even go as far as that). The only\nChristian group I know of that believes in multiple heavens is the\nMormons, and they are very far from mainstream Christianity (far\nenough that many of our readers would not call them Christian). Their\nideas in this area involve specific Mormon revelations, in addition\nto the Bible and \"Holy Tradition\" of a more generic Christian sort.\n\nNote that many Christians will cringe at the very thought of\nassociating grading with God. The whole point of Christ was to free\nus from the results of a test that we couldn't possibly pass. If you\nlike test analogies, God grades on a very strict and unbending scale,\nbut he also cheats -- he replaces our test papers with an exam that\nwas prepared by the teacher, before actually doing the grading.\nBecause some people end up in heaven and others in hell, it's easy to\nsee why you'd be inclined to think of it as grading. While there are\ndifferences among branches of Christianity on details, I think we all\nagree that in one way or another, God cheats.\n\nI am personally very sceptical about anyone who claims to know exactly\nhow far God's cheating extends. Will he accept people who don't\nexplicitly acknowledge Christ, but somehow still follow him in their\nhearts? Many Christians believe that this is possible, at least in\nprinciple, but certainly not all do. Jesus provided us with a clear\ndescription of how to be saved, but it's not clear to me that he\nprovided an exact description of how he's going to place the dividing\nline. Certainly he made it clear that we can't expect to know whether\nother individuals are saved or not.", "\n\n\tTypical statement from an irrational and brainwashed person.\nThe bible was written by some male chavnist thousands of years ago\n(as were all of the \"holy\" books). Follow the parts that you think are\nsuitable for modern life. Ignore the others. For heaven's (!) sake don't\ntake it literally.\n\n\t\t\t\t^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\n\tSo you think it is easy to be a Muslim? Or be a Buddhist?\nThe Buddha's commandments are 500 yrs older than Christ's and in\nmy opinion tougher to follow. Moreover the Buddha says that we are \nintrinsically good (as against Christ's \"we are all sinners\").\n Only we allow ourselves to be distracted. By meditating we can awaken \nourselves (etc etc). Also there is no concept of God in Buddhism. \n(In my opinion you can be an Atheist and a Buddhist).\nBut to \"awaken\" yourself is no easy task. Can you stay away from eating meat?\nCan you sit still and think of nothing (meditate) for sometime everyday?\nBuddhists do (or are supposed to). Can you pray five times a day? \nCan you fast for a month every year (Ramzan). Are you willing\nto give 1/6 th of your income as tithe? Muslims do. In fact I think \nJesus was an ordinary man (just as Buddha and Mohamed) probably with a \nphilosopy ahead of the times (where he lived). \nConsidering the fact that Christianity is a young religion\n(compared to Hindiusm, Judaism, Zorasterism, Buddihsm) it is also very\nprobable that the Bible is merely a collection of borrowed ideas.\n(There was a good deal of trade between the eastern lands and the\nmiddle east at the time of Christ).\nAnd perhaps some more. But leave the crap in it out (\"woman was created\nafter man, to be his helper\" etc).\naras\n\n\t\n\n\n\tWhen ever I turn on my TV there is this Pat Robertson and\nother brain washers (Oh boy, what an act they put on!) with an\n1-800 number to turn in your pledges.\nGod it seems is alive and well inside these boxes.\n\n", ": I may be wrong, but wasn't Jeff Fenholt part of Black Sabbath? He's a\n: MAJOR brother in Christ now. He totally changed his life around, and\n: he and his wife go on tours singing, witnessing, and spreading the\n: gospel for Christ. I may be wrong about Black Sabbath, but I know he\n: was in a similar band if it wasn't that particular group...\n\n Yes, but Jeff also speaks out against listening to bands like Black\nSabbath. He says they're into all sorts of satanic stuff. I don't know.", "\n\nOh yea? Which version of the Bible is the perfectly preserved one? And\nwhy are there so many translations that are not perfectly preserved? Is\nGod trying to confuse us?\n\n\nBut that is exactly what happend. There are so many branches of \ndenominations of Christianity and deviations of doctrine portruding\nfrom varying translations of biblical texts by \"serious students\" that\nare much too numerous to begin to count. If there is a Perfect Bible,\nthen there would be no possible misinterpretation and there would be\nno need for anyone here to be debating it. On the other hand, maybe\nthe Bible is perfect, but no one on this planet is perfect enough to\nread it correctly, but then there would be no point in God giving us\nsomething we cannot use correctly.\n\n\nIMHO, if you trust your salvation on the reliability of a single book,\nyou are on weak ground. Remember, In the beginning was the Word, and\nthe Word was with God, and the Word was God. This Word existed BEFORE\nthe Bible was written. (Note: Word <==> God). This Word that John is\ntrying to describe cannot be fully described in any written language,\nall languages being IMPERFECT. Realization comes only from contemplation\nof the Word, and is outside the boundaries of language. I use the Bible\nas a guide, a stepping stone, but in no way is it my final authority.\nGod alone is the final authority.", "\nGood heavens, you mean my good friend Wes Collins, who took his wife and two \nsmall children into the jungles of Guatemala, despite dangers from primitive \nconditions and armed guerillas, so that the indigenous people groups their \ncould have the Bible in their native languages--the young man who led Bible \nstudies in our church, who daily demonstrated and declared his deep abiding \nfaith in the Lord of Love--you mean he really was a sneaky imperialistic *SPY* \nwhose _real_ reason for going was to exploit and oppress the ignorant and \nunsuspecting masses? Imagine my surprise! I never would have thought it of \nhim.\n\nHow was this terrible deceit discovered? What exactly was the \"cultural \ninterference\" they were caught committing? Attempting to persuade the locals \nthat their ancestral gods were false gods, and their sacrifices (including \nhuman sacrifices in some cases) were vain? Destroying traditional lifestyles \nby introducing steel tools, medical vaccines, and durable clothes? Oh and by \nthe way, who did the denouncing?\n\nI am terribly shocked to hear that my friend Wes, who seemed so nice, was \nreally such a deceitful tool of the devil. Please provide me with specific \ndocumentation on this charge. There is some risk that I may not believe it \notherwise.", "[why do babies get diseases, etc.]\n\n Here's the (main) problem. The scenario you outline is reasonably \nconsistent, but all the evidence that I am familiar with not only does\nnot support it, but indicates something far different. The Earth, by\nlatest estimates, is about 4.6 billion years old, and has had life for\nabout 3.5 billion of those years. Humans have only been around for (at\nmost) about 200,000 years. But, the fossil evidence inidcates that life\nhas been changing and evolving, and, in fact, disease-ridden, long before\nthere were people. (Yes, there are fossils that show signs of disease...\nmostly bone disorders, of course, but there are some.) Heck, not just\nfossil evidence, but what we've been able to glean from genetic study shows\nthat disease has been around for a long, long time. If human sin was what\nbrought about disease (at least, indirectly, though necessarily) then\nhow could it exist before humans?\n\n[deletions]\n\n Uh... I know of many evolutionary biologists, who know more about\nbiology than you claim to, who will strongly disagree with this. There\nis no evidence that the human genetic code (or any other) 'started off'\nin perfect condition. It seems to adapt to its envionment, in a\ncollective sense. I'm really curious as to what you mean by 'the\ndegeneration of the genetic code'.\n\n\n Umm. Nah, we seem to do a pretty good job of adapting to viruses and\nbacteria, and they to us. Only a very small percentage of microlife is\nharmful to humans... and that small percentage seems to be reasonalby\nconstant in size, but the ranks keep changing. For example, bubonic\nplague used to be a really nasty disease, I'm sure you'll agree. But\nit still pops up from time to time, even today... and doesn't do as\nmuch damage. Part of that is because of better sanitation, but even\nwhen people get the disease, the symptoms tend to be less severe than in\nthe past. This seems to be partly because people who were very susceptible\ndied off long ago, and because the really nasty variants 'overgrazed',\n(forgive the poor terminology, I'm an engineer, not a doctor! :-> ) and\ndied off for lack of nearby hosts.\n I could be wrong on this, but from what I gather acne is only a few\nhundred years old, and used to be nastier, though no killer. It seems to\nbe getting less nasty w/age...\n\n\n Now, wait a minute. I have a question. Humans were created perfect, right?\nAnd, you admit that we have an inbuilt abiliy to fight off disease. It\nseems unlikely that Satan, who's making the diseases, would also gift\nhumans with the means to fight them off. Simpler to make the diseases less\nlethal, if he wants survivors. As far as I can see, our immune systems,\nimperfect though they may (presently?) be, must have been built into us\nby God. I want to be clear on this: are you saying that God was planning\nahead for the time when Satan would be in charge by building an immune\nsystem that was not, at the time of design, necessary? That is, God made\nour immune systems ahead of time, knowing that Adam and Eve would sin and\ntheir descendents would need to fight off diseases?\n\n\n Here's another puzzle. What, exactly, do you mean by 'perfect' in the\nphrase, 'created... perfect and without flaw'? To my mind, a 'perfect'\nsystem would be incapable of degrading over time. A 'perfect' system\nthat will, without constant intervention, become imperfect is *not* a\nperfect system. At least, IMHO.\n Or is it that God did something like writing a masterpiece novel on a\nbunch of gum wrappers held together with Elmer's glue? That is, the\noriginal genetic 'instructions' were perfect, but were 'written' in\ninferior materials that had to be carefully tended or would fall apart?\nIf so, why could God not have used better materials?\n Was God *incapable* of creating a system that could maintain itself,\nof did It just choose not to?\n\n[deletions]\n\n My main point, as I said, was that there really isn't any evidence for\nthe explanation you give. (At least, that I'm aware of.) But, I couldn't\nhelp making a few nitpicks here and there. :->\n\nSincerely,", "Why should anyone (check: let's restrict this to Christians, why do *we*)\nwant to find \"commandments\" in the books regarded as scripture? What's\ngoing on? I will pass on psychologizing answers (whether dismissive or more\nopen) as not the kind of issue to deal with here -- the question is what is\nthe *theological* point involved? And it has been quoted \"at\" me often\nenough by those who don't believe I take it seriously, that Jesus (is said\nto have) said, \"If you love me, you will obey my commands.\" [John 14:15]\n\nI am, like any Christian, the slave of Christ, and it is my will that I\nshould do as He wills me to do. I am (also, or instead) His younger brother,\nbut still under His direction, though we both call God \"Abba.\" Christians,\ntherefore, will try to find what it is that their Lord commands them, and\ndiscovering it will feel obligated to do it, or to confess their failure.\nReaders here may set aside the theologizing jargon (such as \"slaves of\nChrist\") -- the point is that adherents of a religion *will* read the texts\n(whether classified as \"inspired\" or not) that are held up as models, in an\neffort to find application to their own situations. This practice ranges\nfrom \"devotional\" reading of sermons and the like to the exegesis of canon-\nical scripture as \"the Word of God.\" And at the highest pitch, this leads\nto a question of whether we *can* find in inspired scripture something that\ncan act as \"absolute\" guidance for our actions.\n\nThe problem is in finding out just *what* it is our Lord commands. I am\ngoing to set aside for this essay one major direction in which Christians\nhave looked for these commands, namely Christian tradition. That is not\nbecause *I* reject tradition, but because my primary audience in this essay\nis Protestants, who deny tradition a determinative value, in favor of the\nwitness of Scripture. The question I want to deal with is, WHAT commandments\ncan we find from our Lord in Scripture? And that turns out to be a hard\nquestion. [ If any of my Protestant Inquisitors would *like* to turn the\ndiscussion to the authority of tradition, I can accomodate them :-), unlike\n*most* Protestants, Episcopalians admit claims from a) Scripture b) Reason\nand c) Tradition on roughly equal standing. ]\n\nEarlier in John than my quote above, we read [John 13:34] \"I give you a new \ncommandment: love one another.\" This is the ONLY place in the NT where\nChristians are given an explicit commandment, with the context commenting\non its imperative mode pronouncement by Jesus. At the same meal [so we\n*readers* infer, since it is *not* in John, but in the Synoptics] Jesus\nsays, \"Take this [bread]; this is my body.\" [Mark 14:22, cf. Matthew 26:26,\nLuke 22:19, 1 Corinthians 11:24] The mode is imperative (Greek _labete_),\nand hence this, too, is a \"commandment.\"\n\nIn *both* cases we have to *infer* that the command is directed to a wider\ncircle than the immediate collocation of disciples -- because we judge the\nevangelist's point in mentioning it (with the disciples by then mostly or\nentirely dead) is that *we* are expected to follow this as a commandment\nfrom our Lord. In the case of communion, Paul's mention (at least; this\nis probably true of the evangelists also) implies an ongoing ritual liturgy\nin which these words operate to \"bind\" Christians to the original command\nto his disciples, as a continuing commandment to the Christian community.\n\nI am entirely comfortable with this inference, but I *must* point out that\nit is THERE, between us and the occasion on which Jesus spoke the command.\nI take it as a clear inference, at the very least the EVANGELIST'S notion,\nthat *all* Christians are called to love one another, in Jesus' command\ndirected at the disciples. But I have to call attention to the inference.\nThe command CANNOT apply to me without the generalization from the specific\ncontext of its statement to my own context as a \"disciple\" of Christ.\n\nAll reading of scripture has to make such inferences, to get any sense out\nof the text whatsoever. This is a general problem in reading these texts\n-- we cannot read them at all without our *own* understanding of our native\nlanguages in which we (normally) read the (translated) texts, and without\n*some* appreciation of the original context (and at points, the original\nlanguages, when English misleads us.) I am going to presume, in what follows,\nthat we have the *general* problem of how to read scripture under control\n[ I don't *really* think this is true, but it will suffice for my current\npurposes. ] I will address ONLY the issues that arise when we have already\ncoped with the understanding of a 2000 year old text from another world\nthan the one we live in. Questions at THAT level only introduce MORE reser-\nvations about the commandments issue than will be found stipulating that we\ncan read the texts as the original audience might have done.\n\nAmong the reasons we have for seeing John's _agapate allelou_ as a *general*\ncommandment (not merely an instruction by Jesus to this disciples on that\none occasion), and one linking it to the Synoptic \"Great Commandment\" is\nthat we have criticism, from Jesus, about limiting our love to those whom\nwe congenially associate with. In Matthew 5:43ff we read, \"You have learnt\nsay to you: love your enemies.\" In fact, the Leviticus context quoted\ndoes NOT say 'hate your enemy' -- it is merely the common human presumption.\n(And Leviticus is at pains to say that the \"love\" should extend to strangers\namongst the people of Israel.) Luke, in expanding on this same Q context,\ngoes on to have Jesus say. \"Even sinners love those who love them.\" [6:27]\nAll of this suggests [quite strongly, I'd say :-)] that *limiting* the\nscope of the \"new commandment\" is not quite what Jesus has in mind. In\nshort, inference *leads me* to generalizing the actual text to a command\nthat is \"in force\" on Christians, and with objects not limited to other\nChristians.\n\nTrickier than the _agapate allelou_ or Institution of communion, there is\nthe case of the \"Great Commission\" where (Matthew 10, Mark 6) the Twelve\nare sent out to evangelize, \"Proclaim that the kingdom of heaven is close\nat hand.\" The verb is imperative (_ke:russete_), but the context is rather\nspecific to the Twelve, and there are further specifiers (as in \"Do not\nturn your steps to pagan territory, and do not enter any Samaritan town\"\n-- the Lukan parallels are even more specific to Jesus' final journey to\nJerusalem) which make it harder to see this generalizing to all Christians\nthan the previous examples. That hasn't prevented Christians from MAKING\nsuch an inference; what I have to call attention to is that such inference\nis NOT justified in the text, nor (unlike the first two cases I cite) by\nthe rhetoric of the evangelist urged on the reader. Still, Paul seems to\nhave felt obliged to \"proclaim that the kingdom of heaven is close at hand\"\neven (contrary to Jesus' instructions to the 12 :-)) to the gentiles, to\nthe ends of the earth. So, Christians after him have also taken this as\na \"commandment\" in the sense of John 14:15. Do I \"accept\" this? I don't\nknow. It is surely rather speculative. But you see how the ripples of\ninference spread out from the text that is the pretext -- Christians (may)\ninfer a general commandment, applicable to all, from what is presented in\nthe gospels as a specific occasion. I do not (necessarily) object to this\nkind of generalization -- but I *insist* that people who make it *must*\nhave an understanding that they are *reasoning* (at some considerable\nlength) from what we actually *have* in scripture. There are *assumptions*\ninvolved in this reasoning, and *these* are *not* themselves scriptural\n(though people will do their best to \"justify\" their assumptions by OTHER\nreferences to scripture -- which simply adds MORE inference into the mix!)\n\nLet's move on to the \"Great Commandment\" -- that we should love God with\nour whole hearts and minds and souls. This is, perhaps, the Synoptic\n\"equivalent\" of John's _agapate allelou_. And yet, it is not PRESENTED\nas a commandment, in our texts. Rather, the context is controversy with\nthe Pharisees. To cite Matthew [22:34ff]\n\n\t\"But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees\n\tthey got together and, to disconcert him, one of them put a question,\n\t\"Master, which is the greatest commandment of the Law?\"\n\nIt is by no means obvious here (though I accept it as such) that Jesus'\nanswer is meant to be a commandment *to Christians*. He is answering a\npolemic from his enemies. [ Mark's account, in 12:28-34 casts the answer\nin a far more positive light as (so the \"scribe\" in this version says)\n\"far more important than any holocaust (I need to point out that this word\noriginates in the context of animal sacrifice; forget the Nazis for this)\nor sacrifice.\" Luke is intermediate -- he has a lawyer posing the question\n\"to disconcert\" Jesus, and gets the Good Samarian parable for his pains\n[ Luke 10:25-37 ]. The contexts here are so confusingly various that one\ncould be forgiven for drawing *no* inferences :-) In *no* account is this\nsaid as if it were obviously to be taken as a commandment binding on\nChristians -- though I think it an entirely reasonable conclusion in each\ncase that Jesus thinks it to be so. The point is that our mental gears\nHAVE to grind a cycle or so to get to any conclusion from all of this about\nwhat WE are commanded to do, by Jesus. And all of this is contingent on\nour understanding the point of Jesus' use of the Torah in the (all quite\ndifferent) gospel accounts, and the application of such a context to *us*.\n\nThe different contexts among the Synoptics are curious. It should be noted\nthat ONLY in Luke do we get the \"fixing\" of this command by the parable of\nthe Good Samaritan. We may look for an analogous *intent* in Matthew, where\n7:12 gives the \"Golden Rule\" as \"the meaning of the Law and the Prophets\"\n(and where we may also hear an echo of Hillel saying the same, a generation\nbefore Jesus.) If we make these associations (which I think are entirely\nreasonable), we are -- again -- indulging in inference. The texts do not\n*explicitly* support us; rather, we *read* the texts as having this kind of\ninter-relationship. Current literary theory calls this \"intertextuality.\"\n\nMy discussion of why the _agapate allelou_ \"has\" to apply beyond the \ncommunity of the disciples, and beyound the circle of Christian believers,\napplies again here, to buttress a conclusion that this *is* (despite the\npresentation not saying so explicitly) a \"commandment\" to Christians.\nFew Christians would disagree with my conclusions -- but I *must* point\nout that they *are* conclusions, they *depend* on rather elaborate chains\nof reasoning that are simply NOT present in the texts, themselves.\n\nThe contextual problem keeps coming up, more and more severely as we look at\nthose sayings of Jesus that are NOT so universally taken by Christians as \ncommandments. And we get some really hard cases. Take divorce. Mark is \npretty clear, \"The man who divorces his wife and marries another is guilty\nof adultery against her.\" [ 10:11, cf. Luke 16:18 ] -- except that Matthew\nhas an escape clause [ \"except in the case of fornication\", 5:31 ]. This\nseems to be a rather clear \"commandment\" (whether or not we take Matthew's\nreservation); and some Christians, to this day, take it so. But some don't,\nat least in practice. This is rather peculiar; it is not as if Jesus were\nnot explicit about this (whereas He says nothing at all about some of the\nthings people gnash their teeth over.) How is it possible, if the commands\nof Christ are clear, that Matthew can so disagree with the other evangelists\nof the synoptic tradition?\n\nI'm going to continue this examination, into ever-murkier waters, but this\nis enough to start with. The theme is: \"finding commandments in scripture\nis an exercise in inference; our inferences are informed by OUR assumptions,\nthat is, our own cultural biases.\" I have, so far, identified a very few\n\"commandments\" that are generally accepted by all Christians -- and yet in\nthese, already, some of the difficulties start to surface. It is these\ndifficulties I want to discuss in my next essay on this topic. The divorce\ncommandment already strikes at some of the difficulties: I see almost no\nevidence that the people who are so eager to find commandments to condemn\n*me* with, spend any time at all writing nasty screeds to soc.couples or\nmisc.legal about the horrors or viciousness of divorce, or demanding that\nUS law refuse to allow it, or refuse \"unrepentant divorcees\" places in\ntheir churches. [ That is not to say that divorce *doesn't* enter into \nconsideration in general -- it is most definitely a matter of concern, in\neven the most \"liberal\" church circles. For example, a (wildly) liberal\nEpiscopalian priest of my aqauintence, in a (wildly) liberal diocese, has\nrecommended to a couple who approached him to marry them that they have a\n\"private\" secular ceremony before a judge, so that the \"public\" ceremony\nhe celebrated need not go through an agonizing \"examination\" by officials\nwho would just as soon NOT take on this role of interpreting the commands\nwe are faced with as Christians. This, in a church that was effectively\nCREATED by a famous divorce! ]", "\nAre you for real?\n\nPeople dumb enough to give their money and possessions to a guy who says he's\njesus deserve all they get\n\nAnyway, he killed a few feds\n\nHe's not the goddam hero here\n\nHe's dead an' i'm happy!!!!!\n", ": \n: \tWild and fanciful claims require greater evidence. If you state that \n: one of the books in your room is blue, I certainly do not need as much \n: evidence to believe than if you were to claim that there is a two headed \n: leapard in your bed. [ and I don't mean a male lover in a leotard! ]\n\nKeith, \n\nIf the issue is, \"What is Truth\" then the consequences of whatever\nproposition argued is irrelevent. If the issue is, \"What are the consequences\nif such and such -is- True\", then Truth is irrelevent. Which is it to\nbe?\n", "\nYup, I think you're right. My mistake. Now, how do I make\nan \"R\" backwards using a computer keyboard?\n\nI'll bet the gods know how (this is alt.atheism, after\nall). Tell you what, if all my \"R\"s start coming out\nbackwards when I type from now on, I'll become a believer.\n\n(And that's not asking for miracles. If I asked for a miracle,\nI'd ask for a real miracle, like for Pat Buchanan to become\nan out-of-the-closet drag queen - well...maybe that wouldn't be\nso miraculous, but I think he'd look fabulous in a feather\nboa and a sequined hat like Mia Farrow wore in Gatsby.)", " On these counts, the apocrapha falls short of the glory of God.\n To quote Unger's Bible Dictionary on the Apocrapha:\n 1. They abound in historical and geographical inaccuracies and\n anachronisms.\n 2. They teach doctrines which are false and foster practices\n which are at variance with sacred Scripture.\n 3. They resort to literary types and display an artificiality of\n subject matter and styling out of keeping with sacred Scripture.\n 4. They lack the distinctive elements which give genuine\n Scripture their divine character, such as prophetic power and\n poetic and religious feeling.\n\nFirst, to point out the obvious: While #4 would clearly be a highly\nsubjective issue, one would be hard pressed to point to another book\nof the OT (or for that matter the NT) that doesn't, on some issues, in\nsome way, fail one or more of the first three of these tests.\n\nSecond, one factor the Deuterocanonicals share is the lateness of\ntheir composition. I don't recall the exact dating of all of the\nbooks, but most --if not all-- were written after the latest of the\ncanonical books (i.e. Daniel).\n\nFurthermore, while the Deuterocanonical may or may not have been\noriginally written in Greek, they are clearly deeply _Hellenistic_ in\nnature. Both of these features probably figured heavily in the\nrejection of these books from the various canons.\n\nThese may not be strict and uniformly applicable criteria by which to\njudge the canonicity of these books, but, as these discussions have\nshown, I think the one thing we can see is that there _are_ no purely\nobjective standards for determining canonicity.", "\n\nMaybe cyclical is not the best word. That is one aspect of it. In the\ncase of the virgin birth prophecy, it applied to the then and there, and\nalso prophetically to Christ. The army that threatened the king would \ncease to be a threat in a very short time. Yet it also prophecied of \nChrist.\n\nSeveral prophecies that refered to Christ also had application at the\ntime they were made. \"Out of Egypt have I called my Son\" refers both\nto Israel, and prophetically to Christ. \"Why do the heathen rage\"\nwas said of David and also of Christ. \n\nAnother example would be the Scripture quoted of Judas, \"and his bishoprick\nlet another take.\" Another example is something that Isaiah said of His\ndisciples which is also applied to Christ in Hebrews, \"the children thou\nhast given me.\"\n\nHow does the preterist view account for this phenomenon.\n\nLink\n", "\nWhat atheists are you talking about? \n\nIMNSHO, Abortion is the womans choice. Homosexual sex is the choice of \nthe people involved. War is sometimes necessary. \n\nThis leaves capital punishment. I oppose capital punishemnt because \nmistakes can happen (yes this thread went around with no resolution\nrecently).\n\nAs far as poplulation control, I think contraception and education are\nthe best courses of action.\n\n\nThat's because you are again making the assumption that all Atheists \nhave some specific mindset.\n\n\nMistakes can happen Bill, and I could be the victim of such a mistake.\n", "But someone will say, \"You have faith; I have deeds.\" \n Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what\nI do. ", "\n\n\n\n\n\nIF it were'nt for the sin of men, none of this killing would have been \nnecesarry, He is KIND and LOVING, but also RIGHTEOUS, \nSIN MUST BE PUNISHED.\n\nBefore Jesus, man had to take the sins on himself.\nBut Jesus died and took it all upon Him, so now we also have a FORGIVING GOD.", "\nWhen I need a kick-butt God, or when I need assurance of the reality\nof truth, I pray to God the Father.\n\nWhen I need a friend, someone to put his arm around me and\ncry with me, I pray to Jesus.\n\nWhen I need strength or wisdom to get through a difficult situation,\nI pray for the Holy Spirit.\n\nI realize that the above will probably make some people cringe,\nbut what can I say? I think the doctrine of the trinity is\nan attempt to reconcile Jesus being God and being distinct from\nGod, as described in the Bible.\n\nI wonder if Jesus had been a Hindu how different the wording would be.", "\n\n Why should he have been any different \"then\"? Ozzy Osbourne,\nex-singer and main character of the Black Sabbath of good ole days past,\nis and always was a devout catholic. Or so I've heard over on the\nalt.rock-n-roll.metal newsgroups, an' I figure those folks oughta know..\n", "\nIt seems faith is the only tool available for emotional purposes\ndue to the tragedy. As such it maybe fills a need, however I'm\ngetting tired to see children dying in pain in Sudan due to lack\nof food, and assuming that God takes these sufferers to heaven\nafter a painful death.\n\nCheers,\nKent", "\n \"Hate the sin but love the sinner\"...I've heard that quite a bit recently, \n .... My question is whether that statement is consistent with Christianity.\n I would think not.\n\n Hate begets more hate, never love. ....\n\n In the summary of the law, Christ commands us to love God and to love our \n neighbors. He doesn't say anything about hate. In fact, if anything, he \n commands us to save our criticisms for ourselves. ....\n\n - Scott\n\nI too dislike the phrase \"Hate the sin, love the sinner\". Maybe the\ndefinite article is also part of the problem, since it seems to give\nus license to fixate on our brother's peculiar pecadillo which we have\nmanaged to escape by a common grace of heredity, economic situation, or\nculture. Our outrage at evil is too often just a cheap shot.\n\nThat said, I don't think Scott has adequately explored the flip side\nof this coin, namely the love of righteousness. In the Beatitudes,\nJesus blessed those who hungered and thirsted for righteousness. In\nthe New Testament, it is never enough just to behave well, one should\nalways actively desire and work for the cause of good. In that sense,\nit should be impossible to remain dispassionate about evil and its\nvictims, even when these are its accomplices as well.\n\nMaybe \"mourn sin, love sinners\" catches the idea slightly better than\n\"hate\", but only slightly, since grief usually implies a passive\npowerless position. A balanced Christian response needs grief, love,\nand carefully measured, constructive anger. Jesus has all three. The\nEuropean pietists during WWII whose response to Nazi atrocities was\ndevoid of anger do not fare well as role models, however much love or\ngrief they exemplified.\n\nMy sister is an actress in New York and a Christian. A few years\nback, Jack, her long-time professional friend and benefactor, died of\nAIDS, impoverished by medical bills, estranged from his family, and\nabandoned by most of his surviving friends. Only my sister and\nbrother-in-law were there with him at the very end. In her grief over\nJack's death, my sister found quite a few targets for anger: callous\nbureaucracies, the rigid self-protective moralism of Jack's family,\nthe inertia in Christians' response to AIDS, and, yes, even Jack's own\nlapse in morality that eventually cost him his life. Jack himself\nshared that last anger. Brought up with strong Christian values, he\nwas contrite over his brief dalliance with promiscuous sex long before\nhis AIDS appeared. (I imply no moral judgement here about Jack's\ninnate sexual orientation, n.b.)\n\nMaybe the hardest job is making our anger constructive.", "\n\nI disagree. In the end, the *individual* is responsible for his/her own\nirrationality. The individual's belief in some dogmatic religion is a \nsymptom of that irrationality.\n\n\nAtheists and agnostics, I would imagine, but yes, that was my point. An\natheist would theoretically be just as ill-equipped to study the philosophy\nof religion as a Christian, and yet there is a persistence of atheists\namong the ranks of philosophers. Therefore, the conflict between one's\nreligious beliefs (or lack thereof) and the ability to be a philosopher\nmust not be as great as you assert. The fact that most philosophers may\nbe non-religious was a secondary point.\n\n\n\nAs opposed to science practiced by theists? Be careful here.\n\nScience does have a built-in defence against faith and dogma:\nskepticism. Unfortunately, it is not foolproof. There is that \nwonderful little creature known as the \"theory.\" Many of us believe in\nthe theory of evolution. We have no absolute proof that this \ntheory is true, so why do we believe it? Because it \"makes more \nsense than...?\" There is quite a bit of faith involved here.\n\n\n\nWell, not ALL current beliefs are deficient, but basically I agree.\n\n\n\nIdeally, this is true. In reality, though, you have to acknowledge\nthat scientists are human. Scientists have egos and biases. Some\nscientists assume a particular theory is true, refuse to admit the\nflaws in that theory because of ego problems or whatever, and proceed\nto spend their time and money trying to come up with absolute proof \nfor the theory. Remember cold fusion?\n\n\n\nNot really. I agree that we spent far too much money on the Waco\ncrisis ($7,500,000 I believe), especially considering the outcome.\nMy point was that mass suicides in the U.S. are rare (Jonestown was\nin Guyana, incidentally, although we footed the bill for the clean-up),\nand the U.S. has far more important issues to address. Compare the\nnumber of U.S. citizens who have died in mass suicides with, say, the\nnumber of U.S. soldiers who died during one week of the Vietnam War and\nyou will see my point.\n", "\nBetween Adam and Eve and Golgotha the whole process of the fall of man\noccurred. This involved a gradual dimming of consciousness of the spiritual\nworld. This is discernable in the world outlooks of different peoples through\nhistory. The Greek, for example, could say, \"better a beggar in the land\nof the living than a king in the land of the dead.\" (Iliad, I think).\n\nThe question of what happens to human beings who died before Christ is\nan ever present one with Christians. I am not ready to conscign Adam\nor Abraham, or even Cain to eternal damnation. Yet they all died in their\nsins, in the Christian sense. The same can be said of the whole of Gentile\nhumanity, and also of the unrepentant malefactor on the cross next to\nhim. I do not limit the power of Christ to save even him, through whom\nSatan would mock his deed of salvation at the very moment of its fulfillment.\n\n\nIt is possible to experience eternity in a passing moment. The\nrelationship of eternity to duration is not simply one of indefinitely\nextended conditions of Greenwich mean time. It is possible to imagine\nan eternity of agony or bliss - or even many of them - in the\nspiritual world during the time between earthly death and a new birth.\n\nIt was also a standard belief among many peoples that even the righteous\nwere lost. This again is the result of the loss of the paradisal consciousness\nthat fled from us after the fall, with our ever increasing involvement with\nthe sense world.\n\nIt would be interesting to share in the results of your studies of ancient\npeople's ideas of life after death.\n\n\nMankind fell into mist and darkness, and at \"the turning point of\ntime\" a new light entered into the world. The light still grows, and\nwe are developing the eyes with which to see by it. Much new\nrevelation and growth in under- standing lies before us. Our new\nvision and understanding is still very feeble, but it contains\nsomething new that will grow in time to embrace that which is old and\nmuch more as well.\n\n(At this point I should acknowledge openly my debt to the work of Rudolf\nSteiner, founder of Anthroposophy, for many insights that have led me to my\nviews on this subject).\n\n\nThe way you refer to it as \"doctrine\" puts a modern intellectual coloring\non it. I think it was much less abstract and much more real and spiritually\nconcrete, a teaching that struck much closer to home than our doctrines or\nteachings today can be received.\n\nI am not so ready to attribute widespread notions in antiquity to\nsimple dispersion from an original source. Even if they were passed\non, the question is, to what extent did they reflect real perception\nand experience? The similarity in the midst of great variety of\nexpression of the different people's ideas of the time immediately\nafter death testifies to the presence of an underlying reality. In\nany case, we study geometry not by reading old manuscripts of Euclid,\nbut by contemplating the principles themselves.\n\nOn the other hand, there is one notion firmly embedded in Christianity\nthat originated most definitely in a pagan source. The idea that the\nhuman being consists essentially of soul only, and that the soul is\ncreated at birth, was consciously adopted from Aristotle, whose ideas\ndominated Christian thought for fifteen hundred years and still does\ntoday. He was at once the father of modern thought and at the same\ntime lived during that darkened time when the perception of our\neternal spiritual being had grown dim.\n\n\nIndeed. I should also clarify that I do not deny that eternal\nirrevocable damnation is a real possibility. But the narrow range in\nwhich we conceive of the decisive moment, i.e. after the end of a\nsingle earthly life, is not in my mind sufficient to embrace the\nreality, and I think that is why the early creeds were couched in\nterms that did not try to spell it out.\n", "\n \n\nSorry Malcolm, but I rather believe Jesus than you.\n\nCheers,\nKent\n", " \n \nIMHO this are going from bad to worse. 3-in-1, 1-in-3 was bad enough.\n \nI do not like a God who prays to Himself. I refuse to believe Jesus prayed\nto Himself -- let's get real, if the scriptures say He prayed to the\nFather, then the Father IS someone different than the Son. I have no\nproblems with multiple Gods. To me, the whole context of the scriptures\nco-heirs with Christ; that we will be like Him.\n \nCo-heirs share all things equally--including knowledge, power, dominion etc.\nWhen I am like Him (Christ), I will be the same as HE is--and He is a God.\n \nIf God cannot do this, the His is not all powerful--and He is NOT God.\nIf He will not, He is a Liar--and He is NOT God.\n \nBut if He does, He is the greatest of all the Gods.\n ", "\n\n\n-- That means that there cannot be any atheists since there is NO WAY that you\ncan prove that there is no god. Atheists are people who BELIEVE that there is no\ngod, most not only believe, but also are damn sure that there isn't a god (like\nme).\n\n ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n The Cursor, aka Nick Humphries, u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk, at your service.\n ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n \"What's the use of computers? They'll never play | \"Why pay money to see\n chess, draw art or make music.\" - Jean Genet. | bad films? Stay home \n \"Intelligence isn't to make no mistakes, but how | and see bad TV for\n to make them look good.\" - Bertolt Brecht. | free.\" - Sam Goldwyn.", "\nKrishna.\n\nBG10:20(Miller) I am the self abiding in the heart of all creatures; I am\ntheir beginning, their middle, and their end.\nBG10:32(Miller) I am the beginning, the middle, and the end of\ncreations, Arjuna; of sciences, I am the science of the self; I am the\ndispute of orators.\nBG10:41(Miller) Whatever is powerful, lucid, splendid, or invulnerable\nhas its source in a fragment of my brilliance. (42) What use is so much\nknowledge to you, Arjuna? I stand sustaining this entire world with a\nfragment of my being.\nBG11:32(Miller) I am time grown old ...", "\nWith one exception, that's a pretty good description of many of the\nBaptists I know. The exception is that they know the difference\nbetween an M-16 and an AR-15. Heck - they even know that \"it looks\nlike Richard Petty's stock car\" doesn't mean \"it's a racing stock\ncar\". They may be uncouth, but they've figured out that appearance\nisn't function.\n\n-andy", "\n\n Up to this point, I was kinda hoping that this was a joke. Still,\nit would make a great premise for a bad syndicated TV show- \"These\nare the adventures of the Oriental Templars... dedicated to truth,\njustice, and good karma! (Dramatic music in the background.)\"\n No doubt I've just horribly offended someone.", "On the question, \"Does God hear the prayers of sinners?\" we need to\ndistinguish.\n\nIf we say that He never hears the prayers of any who have sinned, we\nmake pointless all prayers by anyone born less than 19 centuries\nago.\n\nBut if we consider the prayers of the impenitent sinner, of someone\nwho says, \"Lord, I want you to do this for me, but don't expect me\nto change my way of life,\" that is a different matter. Even here, I\nwould not venture to say that God never grants such petitions (just\nas He sends sun and rain on the evil and on the good). However, if\nsomeone we know well is praying to God in that spirit, we might have\nthe responsibility to say, \"Remember, if God's help is real, then so\nare His commands.\"", " \n \n(Deletion)\n \n \nYou have given that example. It is not lenient. End of argument.\n \nAnd chopping off the hands or heads of people is not lenient either. It\nrather appears that you are internalized the claims about the legal system\nwithout checking if they suit the description.\n \nAnd wasn't the argument that it takes five men to rape a woman according\nto Islamic law?\n \n \n \nNo, I even believe what I don't like. Can you give better answers than that?\nHave you got any evidence for your probably opposite claims?\n \n \n \nA fact, if memory serves. And most will see the connection between the\nprimitive machism in the Orient and in Islam.\n \n \nAs usually you miss the point. Aids is neither spread only through sex\nnor necessarily spread by having sex. Futher, the point is, a very important\npoint, the urge for sex is stronger than the fear of AIDS. It is even\nstronger than the religious attempts to channel or to forbid sex. The\nconsequences of suppressing sex are worse than the consequences of Aids.\nPlease note that the idea that everybody would end up with AIDS when sex\nis not controlled is completely counterfactual.\n ", "Another issue of importance. Was the crucification the will of God or\na tragic mistake. I believe it was a tragic mistake. God's will can\nnever be accomplished through the disbelief of man. Jesus came to\nthis world to build the kingdom of heaven on the earth. He\ndesperately wanted the Jewish people to accept him as the Messiah. If\nthe crucification was the will of God how could Jesus pray that this\ncup pass from him. Was this out of weakness. NEVER. Many men and\nwomen have given their lives for their country or other noble causes.\nIs Jesus less than these. No he is not. He knew the crucification\nwas NOT the will of GOD. God's will was that the Jewish people accept\nJesus as the Messiah and that the kingdom of Heaven be established on\nthe earth with Jesus as it's head. (Just like the Jewish people\nexpected). If this had happened 2000 years ago can you imagine what\nkind of world we would live in today. It would be a very different\nworld. And that is eactly what GOD wanted. Men and women of that age\ncould have been saved by following the living Messiah while he was on\nthe earth. Jesus could have established a sinless lineage that would\nhave continued his reign after his ascension to the spiritual world to\nlive with GOD. Now the kingdom of heaven on the earth will have to\nwait for Christ's return. But when he returns will he be recognized\nand will he find faith on this earth. Isn't it about time for his\nreturn. It's been almost 2000 years.\n\nMike\n\n\n\nAnd the two simplest refutations are these:\n\n(1) What impact? The only record of impact comes from the New Testament.\nI have no guarantee that its books are in the least accurate, and that\nthe recorded \"impact\" actually happened. I find it interesting that no other\ncontemporary source records an eclipse, an earthquake, a temple curtain\nbeing torn, etc. The earliest written claim we have of Jesus' resurrection\nis from the Pauline epistles, none of which were written sooner than 20 years\nafter the supposed event.\n\n(2) It seems probable that no one displayed the body of Jesus because no\none knew where it was. I personally believe that the most likely\nexplanation was that the body was stolen (by disciples, or by graverobbers).\nDon't bother with the point about the guards ... it only appears in one\ngospel, and seems like exactly the sort of thing early Christians might make\nup in order to counter the grave-robbing charge. The New Testament does\nrecord that Jews believed the body had been stolen. If there were really\nguards, they could not have effectively made this claim, as they did.", " \n(Deletion)\n \nNo cookies, Charlie. The claims that Jesus have been seen are discredited\nas extraordinary claims that don't match their evidence. In this case, it\nis for one that the gospels cannot even agree if it was Jesus who has been\nseen. Further, there are zillions of other spook stories, and one would\nhardly consider others even in a religious context to be some evidence of\na resurrection.\n \nThere have been more elaborate arguments made, but it looks as if they have\nnot passed your post filtering.\n \n \n \nIt is no evidence in the strict meaning. If there was actual evidence it would\nprobably be part of it, but the says nothing about the claims.\n ", "\nJesus did not say that he was the fulfillment of the Law, and, unless\nI'm mistaken, heaven and earth have not yet passed away. Am I mistaken?\nAnd, even assuming that one can just gloss over that portion of the word\nof Jesus, do you really think that \"all is accomplished?\"\n\n\nThen why didn't Jesus say \"Any Jew who annuls ...\" in v. 19? Are you\nsaying that all of Jesus' recorded words mean nothing to Gentiles? Are\nyou really saying that Jesus only spoke for and to the Jews? Jesus\ndidn't mention your name, does that mean he wasn't speaking to you? When\nyou read the words of Jesus, do you think he is speaking to someone\nother than you?\n\n\nYou said above that Jesus was the \"fulfillment\" of the Law. Are you\nsaying that does not mean \"doing away with the Law\"?\n\n\nGen3:15(JPS) I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between\nyour offspring and hers; they shall strike at your head, and you shall\nstrike at their heel.\n\nGen3:15(NRSV) I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your\noffspring and hers; he will strike your head, and you will strike his\nheel.\"\n\nGen3:15(KJV) And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and\nbetween thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt\nbruise his heel.\n\nLooks like your translation has taken a few liberties with the Word?\n\n\nOnly \"helping the Jewish people?\"\n\n\nYou are using your interpretation of Paul as an argument against the\nclear words of Jesus?\n\n\n\"Re-expressed?\" Care to define that a bit better?\n\n\nWhat? Are heaven and earth gone away? Where did they go? Is all\naccomplished, for example Revelations? Explain please.\n\n\nAgain, your interpretation of Paul versus the clear word of Jesus. Do\nyou see any problems here? When did heaven and earth go away? When was\nall accomplished?", " \n\n[\"it\" is Big Bang]\n\nSince you asked... from the Big Bang to the formation of atoms is about\n10E11 seconds. As for the \"color\": bright. Very very bright. \n\n\nI don't. I believe the current theory of cosmology because it is fairly\nwell supported by observational evidence (not as well supported as, say\nevolution or relativity, but that's another matter). You're the one who\nproposes unquestioningly accepting religious dogma as fact (apologies if\nyou're not actually a creationist).\n\n\nThe line is broader than you think. Theories are supported by evidence.\nMiracles are supported by someone's say-so.\n", "\n[Stuff deleted]\n \n\n\nWill, there has been a lot of discussion going on about this over in\ns.r.c.b-s.\nI will make the case here though and try to help you out:\n\n8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it\nis the gift of God:\n9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.\n(Ephesians 2:8-9).\n\nYes, it is by God's grace and our faith that we are saved. We are not\nsaved by what we do. However,\n\n15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.\n(John 14:15).\n\nKeeping Christ's commandments is a \"work\" per se, and a demonstration of\nour love for him. Also,\n\n6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his\nvineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.\n7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years\nI come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why\ncumbereth it the ground?\n8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I\nshall dig about it, and dung it:\n9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it\ndown.\n(Luke 13:6-9).\n\nAgain,\n\n16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye\nshould go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that\nwhatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.\n(John 15:16).\n\nIt is clear from these verses that we are called to bring forth fruit. \nWhat is that fruit. Well, Paul speaks of the fruit of the spirit being\nlove, joy, peace, patience, etc. All of these are things that are manifest\nin the actions that we carry out.\n\nIf a person claims to believe in Jesus Christ, but does not do the things\nChrist commanded, I dare say, that they really don't have any faith. \nAsking which is more important, faith or works, is like asking which blade\non a pair of scissors is most important or like asking which leg of your\npants is more important.\n\nGood works should come out of and be a result of our faith. To have faith,\ntrue faith in Christ requires you to do what he commands. The parable\nabove speaks allegorically of a person who does bear no fruit. Christs\ncommands are actions, and if we don't do those actions and produce fruit,\nthen we shall be uprooted just like the tree. \n\nIt is a dead and useless faith which has no action behind it. Actions\nprove our faith and show the genuineness of it. I can sit and talk for\ndays about the fact that I have so much faith in my ability to jump off a\nbuilding and not hit the ground. In other words, I can sit and tell you\nall day long that I have faith in my ability to fly. I really don't have\nthat faith though unless I am willing to jump off the roof and take the\ntest. Words and talk mean nothing.\n\nI could go on and give more scriptures and if people want me to I will, but\nthis should be sufficient.\n\nHope it helped.\n\nJon\n\n----------------\nsig file broken....\n\nplease try later...", "\nDear Tim:\n\nYou say that you were a \"catholic,\" but if you do not believe in the Christian\nGod (I suppose that means the God of the Bible) and publicly state this, \nyou are in all probability not a Roman Catholic. \"Public heretics, even\nthose who err in good faith (material heretics), do not belong to the body\nof the Church\" (Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, 1960, Ludwig Ott, p. 311).\n\nAll is not lost, however, as you still might belong spiritually to the\nChurch by your desire to belong to it. As you said, only God can judge\nthe condition of a man's soul. About judgment, on the other hand, St. Paul \n1 Cor 5:12) urges Christians to judge their fellow Christians. \nFollowing the Apostle's teaching, I judge that you should reconsider \nreturning to the Christian fold and embrace the God of Abraham, Isaac,\nand Jacob. He is the God who lives. \n\nConcerning what you were told about non-believers when you were a catholic,\nthat is true. As I have posted before, Vatican II (Lumen Gentium, II, \nn. 16) teaches: \"Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know\nthe Gospel of Christ or His Chruch, but who nevertheless seek God with a\nsincere heart, and moved by grace, try in their actions to do His will\nas they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may\nachieve eternal salvation.\" \n\nResponding to your solicitation for opinions on the thinking processes\nof God, the best I can do is refer you to Scripture. Scripture is one\nof the best sources for learning what can be known about God. \n\nStick with the best.\n-- \nboundary, the catechist ", "\n\n\n\nAnd maybe they do. But without somebody to set the time that doesn't\ndo them any good.\n\n\nHumph. Deleted there was my list of non-religious reasons one might\nwant a moment of silence for a dead classmate.\n\nMaybe everyone doesn't want to be silent for teachers to give their\npompous non-religious speeches in assembly. I know I didn't. So?\n\n\n\nPlease provide documentation that opposing only things that are\nactively religious (e.g. actual prayer, \"Amen\" after a moment of\nsilence, mandatory classes in religion) and not things that have\npossible but uncertain religious implications (e.g. moments of\nsilence, having the Bible on the shelves during reading period) is not\na way to prevent a state religion.\n", "\nHe appears to have believed that. He had a view which was condemned by conciliar\naction, which is often taken to be condemnation of the idea of reincarnation.\nWhat was actually condemned was the doctrine of the pre-existence of the soul\nbefore birth. Similar, but not exactly the same thing. \n\nLarry Overacker (ll@shell.com)\n-- ", "Subject: Re: Seeking Christian opinion, all sorts.\nFrom: Rob Steele, rsteele@adam.ll.mit.edu\nDate: 5 May 93 06:52:54 GMT\n\n\nOne day a few years ago Franky Schaeffer walked into a Greek Orthodox\nChurch. He is now an Orthodox Christian. So is his mother and if his\nfather, Fransis Schaeffer, had not passed away he too would have come\ninto the church. \nFranky, like many Americans who have recently found the Orthodox church,\ndescribed the experience as finally coming home after a long jouney\nthrough a desert. You should also read the book \"Becoming Orthodox\" by\nPeter Gillquist. It describes the long journey of some 2000 weary\nEvangelical Protestants to the Orthodox church. Come taste and see how\ngood the Lord is.", "\nActually, there is one condemnation of lesbian acts in the Bible, Romans\n1:26.\n\nI think. In\n\nThere are plenty who don't read the Bible.\nOr pray for that matter.", " \nLuke 16 talks about the rich man and Lazarus. Matthew 25 talks about \nthe eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Revelations\n20 and 21 reference this fire as the place where unbelievers are\nthrown. Matthew 18 talks about being thrown into the eternal fire and\nthe fire of hell. It seems quite clear that there is this place where\na fire burns forever. From the Revelations passages it is clear that\nthe devil and his angels will be tormented there forever. From the\nMatthew 25 passage it doesn't seem abundantly clear whether the\npunishment of unbelievers is everlasting in the sense of final or\nin the sense of continual. \n \nFrom Dale's question, I come away with the suggestion that hell,\nif it were short, might be an acceptable alternative to living\nforever with the Source of Life, Peace and Joy i.e. the \nunbeliever ceases to exist. Whereas, if punishment goes on\ncontinually, then one should have a greater motivation to avoid it.\nIt definately seems to me that hell is something we want to avoid\nregardless of its exact nature. \n\nThere seem to be two main questions in Dale's thought:\nWhat is God's main plan on earth?\nWhy is continual punishment a necessary part of hell as opposed\nto simply destroying completely those who refuse God?\n\nI believe that God's main plan is to have a genuine relationship\nwith people.\n\nThe nature of hell and the reasons for its nature seem a lot more\ndifficult to ascertain. It does seem clear that hell is something\nto avoid. At a minimum, hell is the state one is in when one has\nnothing to do with God.\n\nIn the Bible, I am not aware of any discussion about the specifics of\nhell beyond the general of hot, unpleasant and torment. For instance,\nit is not discussed how (if at all) the rich man can\ncontinually stay in the fire and still feel discomfort or pain or\nwhether there is some point at which the pain sensing ability is\nburned up. If you can forgive the graphicalness, if you throw a\nphysical body into a fire, assuming the person starts out alive,\nat some fairly quick point, the nerves are destroyed and pain is\nno longer sensed. It is not stated what occurs when at the judgement,\nthe unbelievers, (who are already physically dead) are cast into hell\ni.e. they no longer have a physical body so they can't feel physical\npain. What could be sensed continually is that those in hell are\nto be forever without God. \n \nThe Lazarus/rich man parable is told with the idea of having the listener\nthink in physical terms in order to get the point that some people\nwon't listen to God even after he rises from the dead. The point of\nthe parable is to reach the hard-hearted here who are not listening\nto the fact of the resurrection nor the Gospel about Jesus Christ.\nIt seems reasonable to also draw from the parable that hell is\nnot even remotely pleasant.", ": Recently an e-mail to me mentioned:\n\n: (Technically, the messengers aren't even human so\n: it *can't* be a case of \"homosexuality\" -- even of rape.) [...]\n\n: The Jude reference to Sodom is also meaningful only in the context of\n: the Sodomites' \"lust\" for the \"other flesh\" of angels. Again,\n: application to homosexual behavior in general, or to the position of\n: gay Christians is largeely specious.\n: ***\n: Are angels \"flesh\"? No. I feel that this is saying that it was because\n: of their lust after other men, who are flesh( or of this world).\n\n: what are other opinons on this? I haven't heard much about this verse \n: at all.\n\nBo Reike in the Anchor Bible volume on _James, Peter, and Jude_ points\nout that all the examples given in this section of Jude are distinguishing\nthe elect from _apostates_, not just the wicked in general. Hence, those\nwho were delivered from Egypt, but did not follow Moses (and, by extension,\nGod); the apostate angels; and Sodom and Gomorrah. Quoting Reike:\n\n\t\"Fornication may here, as often in the New Testament,\n\trefer to idolatry, while \"flesh\" (as in I Pet 1:24) \n\tdenotes human society and its violent attempts at self-\n\texaltation. Sodom and Gommorrah represent the leaders\n\tof apostasy, and the surrounding cities correspond to\n\ttheir followers.\" [p. 199]\n\n\nThere is no inherent reason to read this verse (7) as literally referring\nto actual sexual lust for \"alien flesh\". Nor is it inherently necessary\nto understand it as referring to homosexuality, outside of the circular\nreasoning that has already concluded that the sin of Sodom is the sin\nof homosexuality. The only place that the sin of Sodom is specified, and\nnot merely inferred, is in Ezekiel 16:49 \"This was the guilt of your sister\nSodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease,\nbit did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty, and did abominable\nthings before me; therefore I removed them when I saw it.\n\nFor the same reason (overliteralizing the text) your correspondent's\nsuggestion that the reason the passage doesn't deal with homosexuality\nis because the guests were angels and not men is just silly. There \nare much more solid reasons for pointing out the irrelevance of the\nSodom passages for dealing with homosexuality per se.", "\n\nI assume you are posting to encourage comments - how much history has\nTony Campello read? Not much it seems. \n\n\nIt is good to hear that there are a few reasonable Christians about.\nIf only those christian \"scientists\" would take note.\n\n(In Australia there is a very strong movement, a bunch of christian \nscientists who believe that every single event in the bible is exactly\ntrue, and that there is a rational explanation for it all that can be justified\nby using the laws of physics. For example, there are a few chaps who are \ntrying to prove that the age of the universe is 6000 years old, and that the\nerror in conventional calculations is the result of the fact that the speed \nlight has been rapidly decaying over the years, and this has not been \naccounted for. :-] )\n\n\nOr (of course), that he never existed, and the bible was a story, and was never \nintended to become a manifesto for a billion people. Did Tony follow that one\nup?\n\n\nMillions of people have \"died for a lie\". This point is difficult to \nsubstantiate since it is not well defined (a great many religious arguments\nwork in that way), but consider the many Aztec warriors who sacrificed \nthemselves to their gods in the belief that this act would bring them victory\nof the Spanish invaders. The list is endless. The Aztecs lost, BTW.\n\n \nThat is perfectly reasonable, but it is not grounds for me (or anyone)\nto become a christian. More to the point, it does not add weight to\nthe claim that Jesus was the \"real thing\".\n\n\n\nHave you ever seen a documentary about the rise of Nazi Germany? More to the\npoint, did Tony mention this? One could hardly call Werner Heisenberg and his\nmany colleagues fools, or illogical men, their support of Hitler was based \n(I presume) upon an emotional issue rather than a rational agreement with \nhis principles. Obviously my argument is invalid if Tony thought that Hitler\nwas sane....\n\n \n\n\nHmmm.... I don't think his arguments warrant the use of a \"Therefore...\"\n\n\nThis is (unfortunately) what alot of religious discussions I have had with\npeople result in - quoting the bible. The only reasonable way I think\npeople can look at the bible is to treat the stories as some sort of\nmetaphorical representation of the messages that the authors were trying to\npresent. If someone tries to interpret parts of the bible literally, he or\nshe will end up in all sorts of shit. \n\nTony's argument would be perfectly reasonable for people who believe\nthe events described in the bible took place, but to convince someone, \nwho thinks the bible is total fiction, that Jesus is real by quoting the\nbook is totally pointless. For example, in mathematics you cannot say \"a is\nequal to b because a is equal to b\".\n\n \n\n\nThat would possibly explain why there have so many people being killed \nin religious wars, and why there are hundreds of different versions all\nclaiming to be correct. \n\nIt \n\nI think if you posted this part to alt.religion you would get more flames\nthan here :-). I have never really understood why the emotional sentiments\nof a stranger should be of interest to other people. \n\nSomeone famous said that there two evils in life, polititians and churchs, one\nrules by fear of the living, the other by fear of the dead. If I am pressed I\ncould probably find the exact quotation.", "Coming from a long line of \"hot tempered\" people, I know temper when I see\nit. One of the tell tale signs/fruits that give non-christians away - is\nwhen their net replies are acrid, angry and sarcastic. \n\nWe in the net village do have a laugh or two when professed, born again\nchristians verbally attack people who might otherwise have been won to\nchristianity and had originally joined the discussions because they were\n\"spiritually hungry.\" Instead of answering questions with sweetness and\nsincerity, these chrisitan net-warriors, \"flame\" the queries. \n\nYou don't need any enemies. You already do yourselves the greatest harm.", "\nOh my god, I made a typo AND used the word \"god\". Come burn my house\ndown, I must deserve it.\n\n\n", "\n\n\nSome variant is quite popular. This, and other arguments, are\ndiscussed in John Leslie Mackie's \"The Miracle of Theism: arguments\nfor and against the existence of God\". Although Mackie ultimately\nsides with \"against\", his arguments are, I think, quite fair to both\nsides. Brief discussions can be found in the alt.atheism FAQs.", "Q. Should teenagers have the freedom to choose what church they go to?\n\nMy friends teenage kids do not like to go to church.\nIf left up to them they would sleep, but that's not an option.\nThey complain that they have no friends that go there, yet don't\nattempt to make friends. They mention not respecting their Sunday\nschool teacher, and usually find a way to miss Sunday school but\ndo make it to the church service, (after their parents are thoroughly\ndisgusted) I might add. A never ending battle? It can just ruin your\nwhole day if you let it.", "You forgot one thing \"All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of\nGod\".\nMark\n", "Hi!\n\n\tAnyone know anything about the Interdisciplinary Bible Research\nInstitute, operating out of Hatfield, Pa?\n\n\tI'm really interested in their theories on old-earth\n(as opposed to young earth) and what they believe about evolution.\n\n\tThanks,\n\t\tIn the Master,\n\n\t\tCharley.\n\n\n--\n Seek God and you will find, among other things,\n piercing pleasure.\n \n Seek pleasure and you will find boredom, disillusionment \n and enslavement.\n \n John White (Eros Defiled).\t", "Just a quick comment. As a baptist clergyperson, I find the idea\nof such a \"baptism\" (if the news report is in fact accurate, and\nthey seldom are regarding religion) offensive. The pastor here seems\nto have a most unbaptist view of baptism- one that seems to demand the\nceremony even when comprehension and choice are absent.\n\nWe do baptize converts, but no one who has been deceived into hearing\nthe word is likely to be a convert. If in fact the grace of God might\nwork in such a situation, there is no harm done in waiting a day or\ntwo.\n\nBaptist believe in regenerate membership. Did this church include these\nhalf-baked (at best) converts into their church fellowship? Or do they\nsomehow feel there is some validity in dunking them and turning them loose?\n\nThis kind of \"evangelism\" is certainly not baptist, and probably not\nvery christian, either.", "\n\nYep. There's truth in all those religions, even in science. \nChristianity doesn't claim to know it all. It does claim certain \nthings are true though that contradict other religions' truth claims. \nSo they can't all be true.\n", "One thing I think is interesting about alt.athiesm is the fact that\nwithout bible-thumpers and their ilk this would be a much duller newsgroup.\nIt almost needs the deluded masses to write silly things for athiests to\ntear apart. Oh well, that little tidbit aside here is what I really wanted\nwrite about.\n\n How can anyone believe in such a sorry document as the bible? If you\nwant to be religious aren't there more plausable books out there? Seriously,\nthe bible was written by multiple authors who repeatedly contradict each\nother. One minute it tells you to kill your kid if he talks back and the next\nit says not to kill at all. I think that if xtians really want to follow a\ndeity they should pick one that can be consistent, unlike the last one they\ninvented.\n\n For people who say Jesus was the son of god, didn't god say not to\nEVER put ANYONE else before him? Looks like you did just that. Didn't god\nsay not to make any symbols or idols? What are crosses then? Don't you think\nthat if you do in fact believe in the bible that you are rather far off track?\n\nWas Jesus illiterate? Why didn't he write anything? Anyone know?\n\n I honestly hope that people who believe in the bible understand that\nit is just one of the religious texts out there and that it is one of the\npoorer quality ones to boot. The only reason xtianity escaped the middle east\nis because a certain roman who's wine was poisoned with lead made all of rome\nxtian after a bad dream.\n\n If this posting keeps one person, just ONE person, from standing on a\nstreetcorner and telling people they are going to hell I will be happy.\n\n\n\n", "\nThe OED gives the etymology of \"sibyl\" as coming from the ancient Greek \n\n\tsigma iota beta upsilon lambda lambda alpha \n\t( S i b ih l l a )\n\nwhich is claimed to come from the Doric \n\n\tsigma iota omicron beta upsilon lambda lambda alpha \n\t( s i o b ih l l a )\n\nwhich (if I read it properly) in turn came from the Attican (Athenian)\n\n\ttheta epsilon omicron beta omicron upsilon lambda eta \n\t( th eh o b o ih l ae )\n\nI don't know much about Attis, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that\nthis God was tied to the Athenian capital\n\n\tAlpha tau tau iota kappa upsilon sigma\n\t(a t t i k u s)", "Andrew - continuing the discussion on the Deuterocanonicals...\n\n\nArguably, it is both. Since authority is a matter of both\ncommunicator and recepiant we can say that, for example \"Jesus\nis Lord\" whether the world at large accepts the authority or\nnot. Thus the Bible can be considered for its authoritative\ncontent whether or not it is accepted (This issue is at the\nheart of Pilate's pragmatic question \"What is truth?\" to Jesus\nwhen our Lord was brought before Him. Jesus' reply was to appeal\nto the authority of his Father)\nYou also might like to consider the claimed authority\nrepresented by the statements \"thus says the Lord\" in the Bible,\nwhich claim to put across the exact words of God.\n\nYou fall into the danger of relativism with your rejection of\ninherant authority and claim that it lies only in the \"community\nof faith\" - does something become truth because it is accepted?\nThe main thrust of my argument is that there is a Godward\ndirection as well as a manward (which is where the reference to\nRev 22 came in.)\n\n\nIf we narrowed it down to the predictive elements - which will\ncut out some of the 39 accepted OT books as well - we\nnonetheless have criteria for determining the validity of the\nbook: Jesus' standards were that \"Scripture cannot be broken\".\nCan you name a single prophecy that fits the bill in the Apocrapha?\n(ie definitely fulfilled AFTER it has been written)\n\n\nDoes it have a subjective 'ring of truth' about it - and does\nother evidence that has come to light contradict or confirm the\nauthenticity? (archaeological, other textual evidence for\nexample)\n\n\nWhat this is getting at is the relationship between text and\nreader. It is to do with the quality of writing, which should\nhave the ability to fire the mind, affect our thought life and\ncause us to act in a certain way - there is something of this\nin Jesus' quote: \"Man does not live by bread alone, but by every\nword that proceeds from the mouth of the Lord\". (Matt 4.4)\n\n\nDoes the Catholic Church give the same authority to the\nApocrapha as to the accepted 66 books? Certainly it is not as\nwidely used as the OT and NT.\n\n\nThink about what I have said above. You may want to revise your\nconclusion. In addition think about other 'sacred writings', eg\nthe Koran, the book of Mormon and how and why you would\ncategorise them using the above principles. One word of caution\n- you may find some 'reflected glory' in some of these books: in\nthat the 'inspired quality' may be derived from the Bible.\nRemember that Lucifer is quite capable of appearing as an angel\nof light and quoting Scripture.\n\n\nWhat were you thinking of?\n\n\nWe've lost the point and the context here. I am not arguing that\nthe statement in Rev. can be applied indescriminately, just that\nthe whole acceptance/rejection idea does not just follow on from\nman-made traditions - but there is I believe an act of God\ninvolved in the selection and criteria of what is classified as\nScripture and comes under the definition of 2Tim 3.16.\n", ": >\n: >I think you're letting atheist mythology confuse you on the issue of\n\n: (WEBSTER: myth: \"a traditional or legendary story...\n: ...a belief...whose truth is accepted uncritically.\")\n\n: How does that qualify?\n: Indeed, it's almost oxymoronic...a rather amusing instance.\n: I've found that most atheists hold almost no atheist-views as\n: \"accepted uncritically,\" especially the few that are legend.\n: Many are trying to explain basic truths, as myths do, but\n: they don't meet the other criterions.\n\nAndrew,\n\nThe myth to which I refer is the convoluted counterfeit athiests have\ncreated to make religion appear absurd. Rather than approach religion\n(including Christainity) in a rational manner and debating its claims\n-as the are stated-, atheists concoct outrageous parodies and then\nhold the religious accountable for beliefs they don't have. What is\nmore accurately oxymoric is the a term like, reasonable atheist.\n\nBill\n\n: >Divine justice. According to the most fundamental doctrines of\n: >Christianity, When the first man sinned, he was at that time the\n\n: You accuse him of referencing mythology, then you procede to\n: launch your own xtian mythology. (This time meeting all the\n: requirements of myth.)\n \nHere's a good example of of what I said above. Read the post again, I\nsaid, \"Acoording to ...\", which means I am referring to Christian\ndoctrine (as I understand it), if I am speaking for myself you'll know\nit. My purpose in posting was to present a basic overview of Christain\ndoctrines since it seemed germane.\n\nBill\n\n: >with those who pretend not to know what is being said and what it\n: >means. When atheists claim that they do -not- know if God exists and\n: >don't know what He wants, they contradict the Bible which clearly says\n: >that -everyone- knows. The authority of the Bible is its claim to be\n\n: ...should I repeat what I wrote above for the sake of getting\n: it across? You may trust the Bible, but your trusting it doesn't\n: make it any more credible to me.\n: If the Bible says that everyone knows, that's clearly reason\n: to doubt the Bible, because not everyone \"knows\" your alleged\n: god's alleged existance.\n\nAgain I am paraphrasing Christian doctrine which is very clear on this\npoint, your dispute is not with me ...\n\nBill\n\n: >refuted while the species-wide condemnation is justified. Those that\n: >claim that there is no evidence for the existence of God or that His will is\n: >unknown, must deliberately ignore the Bible; the ignorance itself is\n: >no excuse.\n\n: 1) No, they don't have to ignore the Bible. The Bible is far\n: from universally accepted. The Bible is NOT a proof of god;\n: it is only a proof that some people have thought that there\n: was a god. (Or does it prove even that? They might have been\n: writing it as series of fiction short-stories. As in the\n: case of Dionetics.) Assuming the writers believed it, the\n: only thing it could possibly prove is that they believed it.\n: And that's ignoring the problem of whether or not all the\n: interpretations and Biblical-philosophers were correct.\n\n: 2) There are people who have truly never heard of the Bible.\n\n: 3) Again, read the FAQ.\n\n1) Here again you miss the point. The Bible itself is not the point,\nit's what it contains. It makes no difference who accpets the Bible or\neven who's unaware of its existence, Christians hold that it applies\nuniversally because mankind shares the same nature and the same fate\nand the same innate knowledge of God.\n\n2) See above\n\n3) If you read my post with same care as read the FAQ, we wouldn't be\nhaving this conversation.\n\nBill\n\n: >freedom. You are free to ignore God in the same way you are free to\n: >ignore gravity and the consequences are inevitable and well known\n: >in both cases. That an atheist can't accept the evidence means only\n\n: Bzzt...wrong answer!\n: Gravity is directly THERE. It doesn't stop exerting a direct and\n: rationally undeniable influence if you ignore it. God, on the\n: other hand, doesn't generally show up in the supermarket, except\n: on the tabloids. God doesn't exert a rationally undeniable influence.\n: Gravity is obvious; gods aren't.\n\nAs I said, the evidence is there, you just don't accept it, here at\nleast we agree.\n\nBill\n\n: >Secondly, human reason is very comforatble with the concept of God, so\n: >much so that it is, in itself, intrinsic to our nature. Human reason\n: >always comes back to the question of God, in every generation and in\n\n: No, human reason hasn't always come back to the existance of\n: \"God\"; it has usually come back to the existance of \"god\".\n: In other words, it doesn't generally come back to the xtian\n: god, it comes back to whether there is any god. And, in much\n: of oriental philosophic history, it generally doesn't pop up as\n: the idea of a god so much as the question of what natural forces\n: are and which ones are out there. From a world-wide view,\n: human nature just makes us wonder how the universe came to\n: be and/or what force(s) are currently in control. A natural\n: tendancy to believe in \"God\" only exists in religious wishful\n: thinking.\n\nYes, human reason does always come back to the existence of God, we're\nhaving this discussion are we not?\n\nBill\n\n: >I said all this to make the point that Christianity is eminently\n: >reasonable, that Divine justice is just and human nature is much\n: >different than what atheists think it is. Whether you agree or not\n\n: YOU certainly are not correct on human nature. You are, at\n: the least, basing your views on a completely eurocentric\n: approach. Try looking at the outside world as well when\n: you attempt to sum up all of humanity.\n\nWell this is interesting, Truth is to be determined by it politically\ncorrect content. Granted it's extremely unhip to be a WASP male, and\nanything European is contemptable, but I thought this kind of\ndialogue, the purpose of a.a, was to get at the truth of things. But\nthen I remember the oxymoron, reasonalble atheist, and I understand.", "\nOf course B.M. is not incorrect. He is defending Islam. When defending\nIslam against infidels you can say anything and no one will dare criticize\nyou. But when an atheist uses the same argument he is using \"petty sarcasm\". So\nB.M. can have his \"temporary atheists\" whenever he needs them and all the\n\"temporary atheists\" can later say that they were always good Muslims because\nthey never explicitly rejected Islam. ", "\n\n\nA \"moment of silence\" doesn't mean much unless *everyone*\nparticipates. Otherwise it's not silent, now is it?\n\nNon-religious reasons for having a \"moment of silence\" for a dead\nclassmate: (1) to comfort the friends by showing respect to the\ndeceased , (2) to give the classmates a moment to grieve together, (3)\nto give the friends a moment to remember their classmate *in the\ncontext of the school*, (4) to deal with the fact that the classmate\nis gone so that it's not disruptive later.\n\nBlindly opposing everything with a flavor of religion in it is\nutterly idiotic.\n", "\nThis is a ridiculous argument for being a Christian. So then, you might \nconsider switching from Christianity to another religion if you were \noffered an even more frightening description of another hell? How many\nChristians do think there are who view it strictly as an insurance policy?\nNot many I know; they believe in a message of love and compassion for \nothers. A faith based on fear of hell sounds like a dysfunctional \nrelationship with God. Like a child who cringes in fear of a parent's\nphysical violence. \n\nMany religions have concrete views of heaven and hell, with various\nthreats and persuasions regarding who will go where. Competition over\nwho can envison the worst hell can hardly nurture the idea of loving\nyour neighbor as yourself.\n\n", "Who is Ram Das?\n\nAccording to his brochures, he is a.k.a. Richard Alpert, PhD, and is\nsomehow associated with the:\n\n Seva Foundation\n 8 N. San Pedro Road\n San Rafael, CA 94903\n\nand the:\n Hanuman Foundation \n 524 San Anselmo Ave #203\n San Anselmo, CA 94960\n\nHe speaks publically on such topics as \"Consciousness & Current\nEvents,\" and has written some books and recorded some tapes on \nsimilar subjects. \n\nWhy do I care? My wife wants to go to one of his lectures. When\nI asked why, she said Ram Das was \"the greatest spiritual leader\nof our time!\"\n\nSeveral years ago my wife got involved with a religious cult, and\nwe went through 9 months of hell that almost ended our marriage \nbefore she quit. Let's just say I'm concerned about this Ram Das\nand her interest, especially so with the recent religious cult\nevents from Texas. I need information - solid and real - so I \nknow what I'm dealing with.\n\nIf you have any information about Ram Das or the organizations \nshown above, I would be very interested in your correspondence.\nPlease reply via e-mail to me at: scott%hpsdde@SDD.HP.COM\n\nThank you!\n\n -- Scott Roleson", "\nThe existence of repeated earth lives and destiny (karma) does not\nmean that everything that happens is predetermined by past deeds.\nThere is an oriental view of it that tends in that direction, but I\ndid not subscribe to that view. God may choose one individual over\nanother as the fit instrument for his plans, but that does not\npreclude that the development of that individual into what he is in\nthis earthly life is not the result of a longer course of development.\n\nI do not, and Rudolf Steiner did not, subscribe to the oriental view\nof an inexorable, mechanistic karma determining everything that\nbefalls one. This is a kind of shriveled caricature of a much greater\nlaw in the context of which the deed of Christ on Golgotha and the\nultimate salvation and freedom of the human being as a working of\nChrist can be seen as the master theme and, indeed, a new impulse that\nwas completely free of karma. Christ incarnated only once in the\nflesh, and in that he had no debt of karma or sin. The oriental\nconcepts of reincarnation and karma, which are even more trivialized\nand mechanized in some new age teachings, incorrectly assume Jesus\nChrist to have been the reincarnation of a master. avatar, etc.\nTheir teaching of reincarnation and karma also has no concept the\ncontinuing individuality from one life to the next (e.g. Buddhism).\nMore important, they have no concept of the resurrection of the body,\nthe ultimate continuity of the whole human being -- to ultimate\nresurrection and judgement on the Last Day.\n\nThere is another biblical passage that also has a bearing. It is the\ntenth chapter of John, devoted almost entirely to the man born blind.\nClearly here, Jesus tells the disciples that it was not his past karma\nor that of his parents that led to his blindness, but rather that a\nnew impulse is to be revealed through him. But note that he does not\nrefute the disciples' question. In fact, they ask it as a matter of\ncourse, the question being stated as if it were self evident that only\none of two possibilities existed - it was either the sins of the man\nhimself, obviously not in this incarnation, or the sins of his\nparents. The fact that they even asked about the first possibility at\nall indicates an awareness of the idea on their part and the form of\nChrist's answer indicates that he did not disagree with it.\n\nThere is also Matthew 11:14, where Jesus says straight out about John\nthe Baptist,\n\n \"If you care to accept it, he himself is Elias, who was to come.\"\n\nThis also emphasizes that the Gospels do not have a positive teaching\neither way about reincarnation -- or, in fact, about what happens to\nthe human being at all between death and the Last Day. Even Jesus did\nnot push this teaching on people who were not ready to embrace it (\"If\nyou care to accept it\"). So I took care to point out, not that the\nBible teaches reincarnation but that it does not deny it either, and\nthat much in both scripture and fundamental Christian doctrine becomes\nunderstandable if reincarnation is understood in the right way. I\npointedly used \"repeated earth lives\" to distinguish a little from the\noriental doctrines usually associated with the word \"reincarnation\".\nThe phrase is Rudolf Steiner's (wiederholte Erdenleben). He noted too\nthat the idea needed to arise as a new insight in the west, completely\nfree from eastern tradition. It did in the eighteenth and nineteenth\ncenturies, the most important expression of it being Lessing's \"The\nEducation of the Human Race\".\n\nTo return to your original point, Paul's statement about Jacob and\nEsau does not contradict the idea of repeated earth lives and karma.\nAnd both of these principles receive their fulfillment in the\nincarnation, death, and resurrection, ascension and return of Jesus\nChrist, in my view.", "For those who pray in tongues,\n\n When is it appropriate for you to pray/speak in tongues\nand why? I just would like to gain more knowledge about this subject.", "Regarding David Wilkerson's prophecies. While I'm not real sure of\nhis credibility, I do remember a book he wrote, called A VISION or\nsomething like that. He made a prediction that people who bought gold\nwould be hurt financially. At the time, gold was up to about $800;\nnow it is less than half that. This prediction stuck in my mind\nbecause a lot of people where I worked were buying gold.\n\nThe problem is, we tend to remember predictions that come true and\nforget ones that didn't (a la Jean Dixon). Does anyone know if there\nany of his predictions, perhaps from the book I mentioned, that can\npretty definitely be said to have not come true?", "\nWell, as I remember Jacoby's \"Mythmaker\" talks about this to cite\none source -- but I'm not sure if all Christians have read this book.\nIn addition my social experiences is from being raised and educated\nas a Lutheran, having a lot of Christian friends, and I even\nhave played in two Christian rock bands!\n\nSo, over to you, do you have any counter claims, sources et \nrest that shows that Christianity does not have the concept\nof a social promise that is independent on the social status?\n\nCheers,\nKent", "This (frayed) thread has turned into a patented alt.atheism 5-on-1\nping-pong game, and I don't have any strong disagreement, so I'll try\nto stick to the one thing I don't quite follow about the argument:\n\nIt seems to me that there is a contradiction in arguing that the Bible\nwas \"enlightened for its times\" (i.e. closer to what we would consider\nmorally good based on our standards and past experience) on the one\nhand [I hope this summarizes this argument adequately], and on the\nother hand:\n\n\n}|> }Disclaimer: I'm speaking from the Jewish perspective,\n}|> }where \"the Bible\" means what many call the Old Testament,\n}|> }and where the interpretation is not necessarily the\n}|> }raw text, but instead the court cases, commentaries\n}|> }and traditions passed down through Jewish communities.\n}|> \n}|> This seems the crux to me: if you judge the Bible according to a long\n}|> line of traditions and interpretations coming down to the current day,\n}|> rather than on its own merits as a cultural artifact, then of course\n}|> it will correspond more closely with more contemporary values.\n}\n}But if that's how the Bible is actually being used today,\n}shouldn't that be how we should judge it? If most people\n}use scissors to cut paper, shouldn't Consumer's Reports\n}test scissors for paper-cutting ability, even though\n}scissors may have been designed originally to cut cloth?\n\nThat's possibly a good way to judge the use of the Bible in teaching\nJewish morality today, but it hardly seems fair to claim that this\nhighly-interpreted version is what was \"enlightened for its times\".\nTo (attempt to) extend the analogy, this is like saying that the\noriginal scissor-makers were unusually advanced at paper-cutting for\ntheir times, even though they only ever cut cloth, and had never even\nheard of paper.\n\nI'm not arguing that the Bible is \"disgusting\", though some of the\nhistory depicted in it is, by modern standards. However, history is\nfull of similar abuses, and I don't think the Biblical accounts are\nworse than their contemporaries--or possibly ours. On the other hand,\nI don't know of any reason to think the history described in the Bible\nshows *less* abuse than their contemporaries, or ours. That complex\nand benign moral traditions have evolved based on particular mythic\ninterpretations of that history is interesting, but I still don't\nthink it fair to take that long tradition of interpretation and use it\nto attack condemnation of the original history.", "\n\n\n\n\nBzzt. Thank you for playing.\n\nYou're confusing the puritans/pilgrims with the founding fathers.\nDifference of ~150 years and a much different culture...\n\n", "\nGood point. If you haven't read \"The True Believer\" by Eric Hoffer, do\nso at your first opportunity. I don't know why Hoffer is out of style\nnow, but \"The True Believer\" is still the best explanation of nutball\nbehavior ever written.", "My last article included this quote:\n\n \"If any substantial number of [ talk.religion.misc ] readers read some\n Wittgenstein, 60% of the postings would disappear. (If they *understood*\n some Wittgenstein, 98% would disappear. :-))\" -- Michael L Siemon\n\n \n\nThere is a convention called a `smiley', which looks like this: :-) .\nIt is supposed to look like a sideways smiley-face, and indicates that the\npreceding comment is supposed to be funny.\n\n\nAnd, I'll note that I have participated on talk.religion.misc for over\nfive years -- I'd say Mr Siemon was not too far off. 8^)\n\n *\n\nIn the meat of his reply, Mr Boundary serves up an excellent example of what\nI meant by \"There is no way out of the loop\". I wrote that human brains \"are\ninfested with sin\", and can be trusted only in limited circumstances.\n\n\n\nWhich just moves the problem back one level: how do you tell if your\nconscience is properly formed?\n\nThe only way to tell is to presuppose that you are capable of judging the\nformed-ness of your own conscience. In other words, you can only be sure\nthat your conscience is `properly formed' if you assume that your evaluation\ncan be trusted. Assuming your conclusions saves you a lot of time, I'll\ngrant, but it's not a valid way of reasoning.\n\nUnless you are infallible, your judgements about your own thinking cannot be\ncertain. Therefore, it is not possible to be certain your conscience is\n`properly formed'. (Whatever that is supposed to mean.)\n\n\nMr Boundary then gives another paradigm example of the problem:\n\n\nThe Church is `by necessity' the infallible interpreter of divine revelation?\nHow do you know? Presumably, you believe this because of some argument or\nanother -- how do you know that the argument contains no mistakes?\n\nYou write:\n\n\nBut there is a huge difference between `confidence in our ability to\ndistinguish what is true from what is not true' and `infallible'. I am\nconfident about a lot of things, but absolute certainty is a very long way\nfrom `confident'.\n\nThis discussion is about the arrogance of claiming to be absolutely certain\n(really, go check the subject line). Saying you are absolutely certain is\nsignificantly different than saying you are confident. When you say that\nyou are confident, that invites people to ask why.\n\nExcept in very limited circumstances, when you say that you are absolutely\ncertain, it invites people to dismiss you as someone who does not have any\nidea of his own fallibility.\n\n\nI have yet to meet anyone who believed in a knowably-infallible source of\ntruth who would admit the possibility of errors in his reasoning. All of\nthem -- every last one -- has claimed that he was himself infallible.\nThe result has been to convince me that they had no idea what was going on.\n\n\nDarren F Provine / kilroy@gboro.rowan.edu\n\n[This particular discussion may not be entirely relevant to the\noriginal criticism. I get the feeling that the original poster\nregarded as arrogant the very idea that there are right and wrong\nanswers in religion, and that the difference can have eternal\nconsequences. When I say that I think there is a hell and that he is\nat least in significant danger of ending up there, I will admit that\n-- as you say -- the reasoning processes I used to reach this are\nfallible. Thus at least in principle I could be wrong. But these\nbasic facts are clearly enough taught in the Bible that I think it's\nunlikely that I'm misinterpreting it. (In order to get this level of\nconfidence, I've tried to frame my statement sufficiently carefully as\nto sidestep a number of the more controversial issues. I haven't, for\nexample said that all non-Christians will definitely end up in hell,\nand I haven't attempted to describe hell in any detail.) I have a\nfeeling that my view is going to be regarded as arrogant and\nintolerant even though I acknowledge that I'm fallible and so there's\nsome chance I'm wrong.\n\nDon't get me wrong -- I think there are a lot of genuinely arrogant\nChristians, and often criticism of us is justified. But in at least\nsome cases I think the criticisms constitute blaming the messenger.\nIf the universe is set up so that there are eternal consequences for\ncertain decisions, it's not my fault -- I'm just telling it the way I\nthink it is. You may think God is immoral for setting things up that\nway. It's one of the critiques of Christianity that I find it most\ndifficult to respond to. But it's not arrogance for me to tell what\nI think is the truth.", "Dear fellow netters,\n\nFrom time to time a term like 'Oneness Pentecostals' (or something\nsimilar) has occurred in posts to this group. I also know that there\nis a movement called something like 'Jesus alone.' \n\nI believe in the Trinity and have no plans to change that, but reently\nI was made aware that there is at least one person within our church\nwho holds the view that there is no trinity. In the near future we\nwill discuss this item, and I feel that I shall ask you, my friends on\nthis group, for background information.\n\nCan anybody tell me the basic reasons for holding a belief that there\nis only Jesus? And vice versa: The foundations for the Trinity?\n\nI shall appreciate both quotes from the Bible and historical\ndevelopment.\n\nThank you all.\n\nIn Him,\n\nBjorn", "\n \n\nGood point. The New Testament does not quote Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther,\nRuth, Job, Ecclesiastes, or Song of Songs, just as it does not quote\nfrom the Deuterocanon. But if the non-quotation of the former does not\ndisqualify them, neither does the non-quotation of the later. And the\nWisodm of Solomon was quite clearly an influence on St. Paul, especially\nin the letter to the Romans (cf especially Romans 1.18-32 and Wisdom\n13-14).\n\n[stuff deleted]\n\n \nTrue. Not all accepted them as Scripture, though niether were all the\nbooks of the New Testament so accepted, which puts to the lie the whole\nargument of the books being excluded because they were debated and not\nuniversally accepted. Hebrews, the Apocalypse, 2 Peter, Esther, and\nothers were debated at various times, but eventually retained. As for\nthe Codexes you mention, both Vaticanus and Sinaitcus include the\nDeuterocanon, bothe of the New and Old Testaments, and Vaticanus (I\nthink) inlcudes 1 Clement, the Shepard of Hermas, and the Epistle of\nBaranabas. As for the Muratorian Canon, it deals with the New Testament\nonly, though it is very valuable in its witness to those books.\n\n\n\n\tYou're not wrong! It is a `tradition of men' to exlcude them, as I\nwill explain below.\n\n\"That nothing be read in the Church under the nmae of Divine Scripture,\nexcept the canonical Scriptures, and the canoncial Scriptures are -\nGenesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth,\nFour books of Kingdoms [being 1&2 Samuel and 1&2 Kings], Two books of\nParalpomenon [being 1&2 Chronicles], Job, the Psalter of David, the Five\nbooks of Solomon [being Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, Wisdom of\nSolomon, and [misatributed to him] the Wisdom of Jesus son of Sirach],\nThe books of the Twelve (Minor) Prophets, Isaiah, Jeremiah [being\nJeremiah, the Lamentations, Baruch, and the Letter, all of which were\nformerly counted as one], Ezekiel, Daniel, Tobit, Judith, Esther, Two\nbooks of Ezra [being Ezra and Nehemiah], Two books of Maccabees. And of\nthe New Testament: Four books of the Gospel, One book of the Acts of the\nApostles, Thirteen letters of Paul the Apostle, One Letter of the same\nto the Hebrews, two of Peter the Apostle, Three of John, One of the\nApostle Jude, One of the Apostle James, One book of the Apocalypse of\nJohn.\"\n\t-Council of Hippo, Statute 36, (393 AD)\n\n\tThis same list was promulgated again at the Third Council of Carthage\n(397 AD), and at the Sixth Council of Carthage (419 AD) - at which\ncouncil the same list was enumerated with the words \"Because we have\nrecieved from the Fathers that these are the books to be read in the\nChurch.\" Which ought to quiet those who assert \"in the name of Holy\nScripture we do understand those books of whose authority there was\nnever any doubt in the Church,\" as the Episcopal Church does in removing\nthe Deuterocanon from the realm of Scripture. (Though the Episcopalians\nhold them in high regard and read them in the Church, they are not\ncounted as Scripture by them, and may not be used to prove dogma. The\nLutherans hold out similarly.)\n\tEarlier mention of the so-called Apocrypha as divine scripture can also\nbe found, and below I inlcude only a portion of the quotes calling it\ndivine scripture that could be found among the writings of the Fathers.\n\n\"And this is the reason why the Law of the old Testament is reckoned as\nconsisting of twenty-two books: so that they may correspond to the\nnumber of letters [in the Hebrew alphabet].... It is to be noted also\nthat by adding to these Tobias and Judith, there are twenty-four books,\ncorresponding to the number of letters used by the Greeks.\"\n\t-St. Hillary of Poitiers, \"Commentaries on the Psalms,\" prologue, 15 (365 AD)\n\n\"The twenty-two books according to the Hebrews are .... Jeremiah, with\nLamentations and the Letter, reckoned as one .... and [also] there is\nMaccabees.\"\n\t-Origen, \"Commentaries on the Psalms,\" Psalm 1 (245 AD)\n\n\"Divine Scripture, addressing itself to those who love themselves and to\nthe boastful .... says most excellently [Baruch 3.16-19 follows].\"\n\t-St. Clement of Alexandria, \"The Instuctor of Children,\" 2, 3, 36, 3, (203 AD)\n\n\"....I learned accurately the books of the Old Testament ... Proverbs of\nSolomon, and also Wisdom ...\"\n\t-St. Melito of Sardes, fragment found in Eusebius' \"History of the\nChurch,\" and dating from crica 177 AD, Book 4, 26, 14\n\n\"It is likewise decreed: Now, indeed, we must treat of the divine\nScriptures: what the universal Catholic Church accepts and what she must\nshun. The list of the Old Testament .... Wisdom, one book;\nEcclesiasticus, one book .... Tobit, one book .... Judith, one book; of\nMaccabees, two books.\"\n\t-St. Damasus I, Pope, \"The Decree of Damsus,\" section 2 (382 AD)", "\n\nPaul-- for the same reason that many other colonies are founded. Why not?\n", "I produced an error last week about CHORION:\n\n\nI abhor publishing trash (I abhor it of myself even more than I do from\nothers, but since I do not present myself as an authority on the subject, I do\nnot feel dishonest, though I do openly admit ignorance and incompetence in\nthis example). Thus I felt honor bound to do a better set of research\nspecifically on the word. First it should be noted that Greek grammar is not\nas tough as I first assumed (it is not nontrivial by any means, and I still am\nnot competent with it, but it is not as opaque as I had thought). It turns\nout that while the Index for the Bauer-Arndt-Gingrich \"Greek Lexicon\" renders\neach verse in order, each word within a verse is put in greek alphabetical\norder. Thus while the the meaning of the verse is decipherable, the syntax is\nfar from clear. On the other hand, a Greek-English Intralinear Bible makes\nthings a lot more comprehendable. And yes, the word for field in Acts 1:18 is\nindeed \"chorion.\" \n\nNow I've checked several Greek-English lexicons:\n\n\t\"Greek English Lexicon of the New Testament,\" Louw and Nida\n\t\"Robinson's Greek and English Lexicon of the New Testament\"\n\t\"Greek English Lexicon of the New Testament,\" Grimm\n\t\"Word study Concordance,\" Tynsdale\n\t\"A Greek English Lexicon of the New Testament and other \n\t early Christian Writings,\" Bauer-Arndt-Gingrich\n\t\"The New Analytical Greek Lexicon,\" Perschbacher\n\nIn each case the meaning of the word Chorion was given variously as:\n\n\tA space, place, region, district, field, area, \"country place,\" \n\tland, farm, estate, \"a bit of tillage\", and similar meanings.\n\nNowhere do any of these books mention anything about \"grave.\" As some of these \nbooks go into great detail, I would be very surprised to find that these books \nare all inadequate and Mr Archer is the only competent scholar in Greek. I \nthink it more likely that Mr Archer's investigations into \"contradictions\" to \nbe once again, as your friend said it, \"lacking in substance,\" and thus Archer \nis again shown worthless as an expert witness (By the way Mr DeCenso, I would \nhave honorably presented my results on this matter, even if I had found them\nto support Mr Archer's contentions). \n\nBy the way, among these lexicons, (eg: Robinson's) is the definition of\n\"agros,\" the word used in Matthew 27 to describe the field bought. The word\n\"agros\" is defined as \"a field in the country.\" Chorion is specifically noted\nas a synonym to agros. This is significant, as it is evidence of how silly\nBullinger's exegisis was, which stated that the word for \"field\" in Matthew\n(ie: agros) is different from the word for \"field\" in Acts (ie: chorion), and\nthus we must be talking about two different fields (Of course you already\nadmit how stupid Bullinger's exegisis is, but this was a small serendipity\nwhich drives the point home). \n\nSo as of now, unless Mr DeCenso show compelling reasons to believe otherwise\n(eg: a reputable scholar with reputable references), I consider this \nparticular issue closed. See Mr DeCenso, now you can go on to answer\nquestions about the denials of Peter, the day of the Crucifixion, Tyre, and \nthe fact that the author of Matthew quoted from the wrong prophet in\ndiscussing the \"Potter's Field.\"\n \n\t\t\t\tLater,\n\n\t\t\t\tDave Butler", "Here is another way of looking at it.\n\nWhen we die we are released from the arc of time, and able\nto comprehend our lives in toto. To visit each moment in\ntime sequentially or all at once, but not able to alter the\nactions thoughts or feelings we had/have/will have in this \nlife.\n\nFrom that perspective, I posit that all will have direct knowledge\nof God, and be able to recognize at each moment of time wether\nwe were doing what we ought. That the experience of having\nlived a life far from God will be an eternal torment. That \nhaving lived a life of grace, will be an eternal joy. That the \nresurrection of the body comes not from any physical reconstitution\nof our present forms, but knowledge of our present forms by our\nfully cognizant souls.\n\nAs an Aside: If we were to be restricted for all time to\nour present form, would you opt for immortality?\n\nJames Sledd", "\nI tend to agree. I came here when it first started and watched it grow\nfrom the roots on talk.religion.misc. It seemed to take a while for enough\natheists to come forward to get past the \"Let's trash Xians\" and such.\nNow there's a stable core, and frankly there's a feeling that this is\n_our_ group.\n\nIf we go mainstream, we're going to be in a lot more places. And every\nfucking fundy loonie freshman will be dumping on us to find Jeesus! and\nwarn us that we're all going to Hell.\n\nWant to see what we'll get? Go real alt.fan.brother-jed and imagine that\nthose imbecilic tirades will be here. All the time. Every other post.\n\nI'm being selfish. I find I really learn a lot here and the S/N isn't too\nbad. The Browns and the Boobys are a distraction, but they are few enough\nthat they even bring in some of the leavening needed to offset them. But\nI greatly fear that mainstreaming would basically put us at the swamping\nlevel of the Conners of the world.\n\nRegards,\nDew", "THE EMPTY TOMB: CAN WE TRUST IT?\n\n by the late Wilbur M. Smith, D.D.\n (1894-1977)\n\n When Jesus was on Earth, He made an amazing prediction about\n Himself, and frequently repeated it. Let me quote it for you:\n\n Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son\n of Man shall be betrayed unto the chief\n priests and unto the scribes, and they shall\n condemn Him to death, and shall deliver Him\n to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and\n to crucify Him; and the third day He shall\n rise again\" (Matthew 20:18-19).\n\n Wholly different from the normal experience of men, Jesus,\n who had *never* done anything worthy of death, even deserving\n reproval, knew He would die before He was 40 years of age. He\n knew the very city where He would die. He knew that the religious\n leaders of His own race would condemn Him to death. He knew that\n one of His own would betray Him. He knew that before His actual\n death took place He would be mocked and scourged. He knew exactly\n how He would die--*by crucifixion.*\n\n All this is in itself remarkable. But more amazing than the\n minute particulars of His foreknowledge was what He predicted\n would follow shortly after He was buried--*that He would rise\n again.* He even designated the time--on the third day.\n\n But since it is on this central fact--the death and resurrec-\n tion of Jesus Christ--that the whole truth or untruth of Chris-\n tianity turns, let us examine it more closely.\n\n The body of Jesus was embalmed in long sheets of cloth\n between the layers of which a great abundance of spices and\n ointments was distributed. The body was placed in a tomb which\n had never before been used, and a great stone was rolled against\n the entrance. The Jewish authorities, fully aware that Jesus had\n predicted He would rise again, had the stone officially sealed and\n on Saturday placed a guard before the tomb to prevent the\n disciples from carrying away the body. Early Sunday morning some\n of the women who were faithful followers of Christ went out to the\n tomb to further anoint the body. To their utter astonishment,\n they found the stone rolled away, the body gone. They rushed back\n to tell the disciples. Shortly two of Jesus' friends, Peter and\n John, utterly skeptical about the whole affair, came and found the\n tomb empty, just as the women had said. Even the guards came\n hurrying into the city to tell the Sanhedrin that had hired them\n to guard the tomb that the body was gone (Matthew 28:11).\n\n How did this tomb become empty?\n\n One of the most famous New Testament scholars in America--\n professor of New Testament literature in a large theological\n seminary--wrote to the author in answer to my question of *how*\n the tomb became empty, and wrote it in a letter *not* marked by\n bitterness or sarcasm, that he could no more explain how the tomb\n became empty than he could explain how Santa Claus comes down the\n chimney at Christmas time.\n\n But he didn't realize that Santa Clause never did come down\n any chimney at Christmas time, *because there never was a Santa\n Claus!* ...And there *is* a Jesus. He died; He was buried in the\n tomb of Joseph of Arimathea, and on Sunday the body was gone.\n\n Those are facts of history. No one can escape the responsi-\n bility of coming to some conclusion about what really happened by\n mentioning a myth we all abandoned before we were eight years old.\n\n Another professor, Dr. Kirsopp Lake of Harvard University,\n tried to explain the empty tomb by saying (what no other scholar\n in the field of New Testament criticism has ventured to adopt)\n that the women went to the wrong tomb.\n\n The facts are these:\n\n First, so far as we know, there was no other tomb nearby to\n which by mistake they could have gone.\n\n Second, it is contrary to all similar experience for three or\n more people to forget the place where they have buried their\n dearest loved one within less than three days. Even if the women\n did miss the tomb, when Peter and John came, did they too go to\n the wrong tomb?\n\n Third, were the soldiers *guarding* the wrong tomb?\n\n There is, of course, a record of an attempt to escape the\n evidence of the empty tomb in the New Testament itself.\n\n Now when they were going, behold, some\n of the watch came into the city and showed\n unto the chief priests all the things that\n were done. And when they were assembled\n with the leaders and had taken counsel, they\n gave large money unto the soldiers, Saying,\n Say ye, His disciples came by night, and stole\n Him away while we slept. And if this come to\n the governor's ears, we will persuade him, and\n secure you. So they took the money, and did\n as they were taught: and this saying is com-\n monly reported among the Jews until this day\n (Matthew 28:11-15).\n\n This is a good illustration of many later attempts to escape the\n fact that the tomb was empty.\n\n You will notice at once that the chief priests and the elders never\n questioned but that the tomb *was* empty. They never even went out to\n see if what the guards had reported was true--they *knew* it was true.\n\n Another fact about this story makes it ridiculous to maintain that\n the tomb was empty--the soldiers were told to say that Jesus' disciples\n came and stole the body away *while they* (the soldiers) *were asleep!*\n\n How could they know what was going on while they were asleep?\n Obviously, such testimony would be valueless in any court.\n\n Even aside from the shallowness and sordidness that make us reject\n the explanation, the very character and the later history of the\n disciples compel us to believe they did not steal and secretly carry away\n the body of Jesus.\n\n First, as Professor Heffern points out, the leaders of Judaism in\n Jerusalem, who had put the Lord Jesus to death, had nothing to offer to\n contradict these disciples as they continued to preach Jesus and His\n resurrection--because all Jerusalem knew the tomb was empty. If there\n had been trickery here, sooner or later it would have been suspected,\n then proved.\n\n Second, surely *one* of the disciples, even *most* of them, would\n have confessed the fraud under the terrific persecution they underwent.\n It may be possible to live a lie, but men seldom die for a lie--and most\n of these men did.\n\n The result ultimately would have been that the message that Christ\n had risen would have suffered the fate of all such unfounded stories--it\n would have lost it *power.* Instead, this truth swept the world, closed\n pagan temples, won millions of disciples, brought hope to a despairing\n humanity, was the very foundation truth of the early church, and is today\n as believable and as freshly glorious as ever.\n\n But not only did Jesus come alive again, He did not disappear to\n leave the disciples speculating through all the subsequent days as to\n what had happened to Him.\n\n Instead, He appeared to them--literally, visibly, frequently.\n\n He appeared to the women at the tomb on Resurrection morning\n (Matthew 28:1-10); later that day to Mary Magdalene alone (John 20:11-\n 18); and to Simon Peter, also alone (Luke 24:34). In the afternoon He\n walked with two of His followers toward Emmaus (Luke 24:13-35); and that\n night He appeared to ten of the apostles gathered together in an upper\n room at Jerusalem (Mark 16:14-16; Luke 24:36-40; etc.).\n\n A week later He appeared to all eleven of the apostles, probably at\n the same place (John 20:26-28). Once He was seen by above 500 brethren\n on a mountain in Galilee (I Corinthians 15:6); and finally to the\n apostles just before His ascension (Mark 16:19; Luke 24:50-52; Acts 1:3-\n 8).\n\n As with the fact of the empty tomb, so in regard to these histor-\n ically recorded appearances, all kinds of theories have been proposed\n attempting to deny their literalness. But these theories are\n unreasonable, without supporting evidence. None has ever won the\n unanimous approval of those who refuse to believe in the reality of the\n appearances.\n\n Moreover, while it is true we are living in an age when may of our\n leading scientists and agnostics and many of our philosophers are\n antisuperanaturalistic, let us not forget that some of the greatest\n thinkers of the ages have firmly believed in this great miracle.\n Increase Mather, president of Harvard; Timothy Dwight, president of Yale;\n Nathan Lord, president of Dartmouth; Edward Hitchcock, president of\n Amherst; Mark Hopkins, president of Williams; John Witherspoon, president\n of Princeton--these men and countless others have believed it.\n\n But suppose Christ *did* rise from the dead, what of it? What has\n it to do with *my* life? What has it to do with *your* life? Just this:\n it seals with certitude the teachings of Christ.\n\n Jesus taught many great truths--especially many about Himself. He\n claimed to have come down *from* God.\n\n He said He was the way *to* God.\n\n He said He was the Son of God, who alone knew God perfectly.\n\n He said that whoever believed on Him had eternal life, and no one\n else had it.\n\n He said that whatever we ask God in His name, He would grant it to\n us.\n\n Thus when He did rise from the grave on the third day, He revealed\n that in these amazing, unparalleled predictions, *He spoke the truth!*\n\n Do you know any reason, *any good reason,* why we should not believe\n that His words are all true?\n\n The point is, does not the truth of the Resurrection convince us\n that He is none other than the One He claimed to be--the Son of God?\n\n And then, of course, the fact that Christ rose from the dead\n testifies that He has broken the power of death, and that He will some\n day raise us also up from the grave, as He promised.\n\n In other words, if this Person, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, in all\n this, He should be the cornerstone of the foundation of your life. For\n He said a life built on Him would know forgiveness of sins, His compan-\n ionship and help, a joy that no circumstances can ever take away, and a\n hope that shineth more and more unto a perfect day.", "\n The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. \n The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you. \nRomans 16:20\n", "\n: But how do we know that you're representing the REAL Christians?\n: ;-)\n\n: Bill, you're an asshole. Get lost.\n\nMaddi,\n\nI see that you still can't grasp the obvious, is it because your are devious\nby nature, or can you only find fault with an argument by\nmisrepresenting it?\n\nI plainly said that I was stating the Christian position as I\nunderstand it, I did not say whether I agree with it since my point\nwas that the only flaws in that position are those atheists invent.\nI have never claimed to be an expert on anything and especially\nChristianity, but I have made it an object of pretty intense study\nover the years, so I feel qualified to discuss what its general\npropositions are.\n\nWhat offends you is that I have exposed the distortions and\nmisrepresentations of Christianity you contrive and then rail against,\n(which seems more like the classical strawman dodge than what I said)\nThis leaves you with nothing but to attack but me. As usual, you\navoid the larger issues by picking away at the insignificant stuff, why not\nfind one particular thing in my post that we can discuss, or can you\neven tell me what the issues are?", "}>For several years I've periodically asked Charley Wingate to explain this\n}>mythical alternative to rationality which he propounds so enthusiastically\n}>when he pops up every few months. His reluctance to explain indicates to me\n}>that it's not so hot.\n}\n}I've said enough times that there is no \"alternative\" that should think you\n}might have caught on by now. And there is no \"alternative\", but the point\n}is, \"rationality\" isn't an alternative either. The problems of metaphysical\n}and religious knowledge are unsolvable-- or I should say, humans cannot\n}solve them.\n\nIf there is truly no alternative, then you have no basis whatsoever\nfor your claim. The usual line here, which you call \"a prejudgment of\natheism\", and dispute, is that reason is all we have. Here you admit\nthat you have no alternative, no possible basis for the claim that\nthere is anything other than reason or that reason is inapplicable in\nreligious knowledge, except possibly that reason conflicts with\n\"religious knowledge\".\n\nThis sounds very much like \"I can't provide a rational defense for my\nbelief, but prefer to discard rationality rather than accept that it\nmay be false\". I hope it makes you happy, but your repeated and\nunfounded assertions to this effect don't advance your cause.", "Sorry about the delay in responding, due to conference paper deadline panic.\n\n\n[Alarming amounts of agreement deleted :-)]\n\n\nThat (\"complicated\") isn't in fact where P(H) > P(HG) comes from; it's more\nthe other way around. It's from\n\n P(H) = P(HG) + P(HG') where G' is the complement of G\n\nand by axiom, P(anything) >= 0, so P(HG') >= 0, so P(H) >= P(HG).\n\nIn a sense, HG is necessarily more \"complicated\" than H for any H and G,\nso I may be splitting hairs, but what I'm trying to say is that irrespective\nof subjective impressions of how complicated something is, P(H) >= P(HG)\nholds, with equality if and only if P(HG') = 0.\n\n\nWell, \"P(x | A) = P(x | B)\" means that x is as likely to be observed if A is\noperative as it is if B is operative. This implies that observing x does not\nprovide any useful information which might allow us to discriminate between\nthe respective possibilities that A and B are operative; the difference\nreduces to the difference between the (unknown and unhelpful) prior\nprobabilities P(A) and P(B):\n\n P(x | A) = P(x | B) ==>\n\n P(A | x) = k P(A), and P(B | x) = k P(B)\n\nwhere k = P(x | A) / P(x) = P(x | B) / P(x).\n\nSo A and B are \"equally consistent with the data\" in that observing x\ndoesn't give any pointers as to which of A or B is operative.\n\nIn the particular case where A = H and B = HG, however, we know that their\nprior probabilities are ordered by P(H) >= P(HG), although we don't know\nthe actual values, and it's this which allows us to deploy the Razor to\nthrow out any such HG.\n\n\nThat's certainly true, but the particular point here was whether or\nnot a `divine component' actually underlies the prevalence of religion\nin addition to the memetic transmission component, which even the religious\nimplicitly acknowledge to be operative when they talk of `spreading the word'.\n\nNow it seems to me, as I've said, that the observed variance in religious\nbelief is well accounted for by the memetic transmission model, but rather\n*less* well if one proposes a `divine component' in addition, since I would\nexpect the latter to conspire *against* wide variance and even mutual\nexclusion among beliefs. Thus my *personal* feeling is that P(x | HG) isn't\neven equal to P(x | H) in this case, but is smaller (H is memetic transmission,\nG is `divine component', x is the variance among beliefs). But I happily\nacknowledge that this is a subjective impression.\n\n\nNot that I'm a statistician as such either, but:\n\nThe idea is that both theism and atheism are compatible with all of\nthe (read `my') observations to date. However, theism (of the type with\nwhich I am concerned) *also* suggests that, for instance, prayer may be\nanswered, people may be miraculously healed (both are in principle amenable\nto statistical verification) and that god/s may generally intervene in\nmeasurable ways.\n\nThis means that these regions of the space of possible observations, \nwhich I loosely termed \"appearances of god/s\", have some nonzero\nprobability under the theistic hypothesis and zero under the atheistic.\n\nSince there is only so much probability available for each hypothesis to\nscatter around over the observation space, the probability which theism\nexpends on making \"appearances of god/s\" possible must come from somewhere\nelse (i.e. other possible observations).\n\nAll else being equal, this means that an observation which *isn't* an\n\"appearance of god/s\" must have a slightly higher probability under\natheism than under theism. The Bayesian stuff implies that such\nobservations must cause my running estimate for the probability of\nthe atheistic hypothesis to increase, with a corresponding decrease\nin my running estimate for the probability of the theistic hypothesis.\n\nSorry if that's still a bit jargonesque, but it's rather difficult to\nput it any other way, since it does depend intimately on the properties\nof conditional probability densities, and particularly that the total\narea under them is always unity.\n\nAn analogy may (or may not :-) be helpful. Say that hypothesis A is \"the\ncoin is fair\", and that B is \"the coin is unfair (two-headed)\". (I've\nused A and B to avoid confusion with H[heads] and T[tails].)\n\nThen\n\n P(H | A) = 0.5 } total 1\n P(T | A) = 0.5 }\n\n P(H | B) = 1 } total 1\n P(T | B) = 0 }\n\nThe observations are a string of heads, with no tails. This is compatible\nwith both a fair coin (A) and a two-headed coin (B). However, the probability\nexpended by A on making possible the appearance of tails (even though they\ndon't actually appear) must come from somewhere else, since the total must\nbe unity, and it comes in this case from the probability of the appearance\nof heads.\n\nSay our running estimates at time n-1 are e[n-1](A) and e[n-1](B). The\nobservation x[n] at time n is another head, x[n] = H. The estimates are\nmodified according to\n\n P(H | A)\n e[n](A) = e[n-1](A) * -------- = e[n-1](A) * m\n P(H)\n\nand\n\n P(H | B)\n e[n](B) = e[n-1](B) * -------- = e[n-1](B) * 2m\n P(H)\n\nNow we don't know P(H), the *actual* prior probability of a head, but\nthe multiplier for e(A) is half that for e(B). This is true every time\nthe coin is tossed and a head is observed.\n\nThus whatever the initial values of the estimates, after n heads, we have\n\n n\n e[n](A) = m e[0](A)\n\nand\n n\n e[n](B) = (2m) e[0](B),\n\nand since e[k](A) + e[k](B) = 1 at any time k, you can show that 0.5 < m < 1\nand thus 1 < 2m < 2. Hence the estimate for the fair-coin hypothesis A must\ndecrease at each trial and that for the two-headed coin hypothesis B must\nincrease, even though both hypotheses are compatible with a string of heads.\n\nThe loose analogy is between \"unfair coin\" and atheism, and between \"fair\ncoin\" and theism, with observations consistent with both. A tail, which\nwould falsify \"unfair coin\", is analogous to an \"appearance of god/s\",\nwhich would falsify atheism. I am *not* claiming that the analogy extends\nto the numerical values of the various probabilities, just that the principle\nis the same.\n\n\n\nQuite so, but this type of theism is what I might call \"the G in the HG\",\nin terms of our Ockham's Razor discussion, and I'd bin it on those grounds.\n\n\nThe hypotheses don't have to be falsifiable, and indeed in my `model',\nthe theism isn't falsifiable.\n\n\n\nYou don't have to. We don't need, in the above analogy, to know *any*\nprior probabilities to deduce that the updating multiplier for the\nfair-coin hypothesis is less than unity, and that the corresponding\nmultiplier for the two-headed coin hypothesis is greater than unity.\nYou don't need to know the initial values of the running estimates\neither. It's clear that after a large number of observations, P(fair-coin)\napproaches zero and P(two-headed-coin) approaches unity.\n\nAll you need to know is whether P(x | Ha) is larger than P(x | Ht) for\nobserved x, and this follows from the assumptions that there are certain\nevents rendered *possible* (not necessary) under Ht which are not possible\nunder Ha, and all else is equal.\n\n\nAny observations you like; it really doesn't matter, nor affect the\nreasoning, provided that there are some possible observations which\nwould count as \"appearances of god/s\". Examples of this might be\na demonstration of the efficacy of prayer, or of the veracity of\nrevelation.\n\n\n\nOK, we'll downgrade \"*does* interact\" to \"*may* interact\", which would\nactually be better since \"does interact\" implies a falsifiability which\nwe both agree is misplaced.\n\n\nI'll explain, but bear in mind that this isn't central; all I require of\na theism is that it *not* make the prediction \"Appearances of god/s will\nnever happen\", as does atheism. (Before somebody points out that quantum\nmechanics doesn't make this prediction either, the difference is that\nQM and atheism do not form a partition.)\n\nPredictions include such statements as \"Prayer is efficacious\" (implying\n\"If you do the stats, you will find that Prayer is efficacious\"), or \"Prayer\nis *not* efficacious\", or \"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not\npass, till all these things be fulfilled.\" I don't think we have any problems\nof misunderstanding here.\n\n\n\nThat's fine; I don't claim that theism is false, merely that the [finite\nnumber of] observations available to me so far suggest that it is, and\nthat as I continue to observe, the suggestion looks better and better.\n\n\n\n\nI think you are; an \"appearance of god/s\" is sufficient to falsify\natheism, whereas in general the corresponding theism is unfalsifiable.\n\n\nNo: by way of a counterexample, let X = \"the coin is fair\", or more\naccurately (so that not(X) makes sense) \"the two sides of the coin are\ndifferent\". This is unfalsifiable by tossing the coin; even a string of\nheads is consistent with a fair coin, and you have to go to an infinite\nnumber of tosses to falsify X in the limit. Its converse is falsifiable,\nand is falsified when at least one head and at least one tail have appeared.\n\n\n\n\nOops. Sorry. Mea culpa.\n\n\nWe agree here.\n\n\n\"The Rapture will not happen on October 28 1992.\" Said Rapture would have\nfalsified atheism to my satisfaction had it happened, although its failure\nto happen does not, of course, falsify any theisms other than those which\nspecifically predicted it.\n\n\"No phenomenon which requires the existence of one or more gods for its\nexplanation will ever be observed.\" That about sums the whole thing up.\n\n\nCheers\n\nSimon", ".\n Of some relevance to the posts on this subject might be Deut.23:2,", "I baptize you with water for repentance.\n\tBut after me will come one who is more powerful than I,\n\twhose sandals I am not fit to carry.\n\tHe will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.", "[material deleted] \n[deletions]\n\n\nI don't necessarily object to the secrecy but I do question it, since I see no \nBiblical reason why any aspect of Christian worship should involve secrecy. \nBut I am interested in your claim that early Christian practices \"parallel\" \nMormon temple ceremonies. Could you give an example? Also, why do they only \nparallel Mormon ceremonies? Why don't Mormon ceremonies restore the original \nChristian practices? Wasn't that the whole point of Joseph Smith's stated \nmission?", "\n\n\nThis was all badly reported in the news. There is no evidence that\nsigns of life found in old rock predate putative planet-sterilizing\nevents. Rather, the argument was that if life arose shortly the last\nsterilizing event, then it must be easily formed. The *inference*\nwas that life originated before and was destroyed, but there was\nno evidence of that.\n\nHowever, even this argument is flawed. It could well be that origin of\nlife requires specific conditions (say, a certain composition of the\natmosphere) that do not last for long. So, perhaps life formed\nearly only because it would have had no other chance to do so,\nnot because it was likely that life would originate under those\nconditions.", "\n\n\nNote the difference here. One is saying, if *Christ* disagrees with \na Christian being gay, *Christ* can change that.\n\nThe other is saying, if *I* think being gay is wrong, that a Christian\ncannot be gay, *I* need to tell them to change.\n\n\nAs Lois said, and as before her Paul wrote to the believers in Rome,\nWHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE ANOTHER'S SERVANT?\n\n-jen\n\n-- ", "\n\nI think the passage you're looking for is the following.\n\nMatthew 5:17 \"Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the \nprophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them. \nMatthew 5:18 For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, \nnot an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. \nMatthew 5:19 Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments \nand teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he \nwho does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of \nheaven. \nMatthew 5:20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of \nthe scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. \n\nThere are several problems with this. The most serious is that the\nLaw was regarded by Jews at the time (and now) as binding on Jews, but\nnot on Gentiles. There are rules that were binding on all human\nbeings (the so-called Noachic laws), but they are quite minimal. The\nissue that the Church had to face after Jesus' death was what to do\nabout Gentiles who wanted to follow Christ. The decision not to\nimpose the Law on them didn't say that the Law was abolished. It\nsimply acknowledged that fact that it didn't apply to Gentiles. This\nis a simple answer, which I think just about everyone can agree to.\n(A discussion of the issue in more or less these terms is recorded\nin Acts 15.)\n\nHowever there's more involved. In order to get a full picture of the\nrole of the Law, we have to come to grips with Paul's apparent\nrejection of the Law, and how that relates to Jesus' commendation of\nthe Law. At least as I read Paul, he says that the Law serves a\npurpose that has been in a certain sense superceded. Again, this\nissue isn't one of the abolition of the Law. In the middle of his\ndiscussion, Paul notes that he might be understood this way, and\nassures us that that's not what he intends to say. Rather, he sees\nthe Law as primarily being present to convict people of their\nsinfulness. But ultimately it's an impossible standard, and one that\nhas been superceded by Christ. Paul's comments are not the world's\nclearest here, and not everyone agrees with my reading. But the\ninteresting thing to notice is that even this radical position does\nnot entail an abolition of the Law. It still remains as an\nuncompromising standard, from which not an iota or dot may be removed.\nFor its purpose of convicting of sin, it's important that it not be\nrelaxed. However for Christians, it's not the end -- ultimately we\nlive in faith, not Law.\n\nWhile the theoretical categories they use are rather different, in the\nend I think Jesus and Paul come to a rather similar conclusion. The\nquoted passage from Mat 5 should be taken in the context of the rest\nof the Sermon on the Mount, where Jesus shows us how he interprets the\nLaw. The \"not an iota or dot\" would suggest a rather literal reading,\nbut in fact that's not Jesus' approach. Jesus' interpretations\nemphasize the intent of the Law, and stay away from the ceremonial\ndetails. Indeed he is well known for taking a rather free attitude\ntowards the Sabbath and kosher laws. Some scholars claim that Mat\n5:17-20 needs to be taken in the context of 1st Cent. Jewish\ndiscussions. Jesus accuses his opponents of caring about giving a\ntenth of even the most minor herbs, but neglecting the things that\nreally matter: justice, mercy and faith, and caring about how cups and\nplates are cleaned, but not about the fact that inside the people who\nuse them are full of extortion and rapacity. (Mat 23:23-25) This, and\nthe discussion later in Mat 5, suggest that Jesus has a very specific\nview of the Law in mind, and that when he talks about maintaining the\nLaw in its full strength, he is thinking of these aspects of it.\nPaul's conclusion is similar. While he talks about the Law being\nsuperceded, all of the specific examples he gives involve the\n\"ceremonial law\", such as circumcision and the Sabbath. He is quite\nconcerned about maintaining moral standards.\n\nThe net result of this is that when Paul talks about the Law being\nsuperceded, and Jesus talks about the Law being maintained, I believe\nthey are talking about different aspects of the Law. Paul is\nembroiled in arguments about circumcision. As is natural in letters\nresponding to specific situations, he's looking at the aspect of the\nLaw that is currently causing trouble: the Law as specifically Jewish\nceremonies. He certainly does not intend to abolish divine standards\nof conduct. On the other hand, when Jesus commends the Law, he seems\nto be talking the Law in its broadest implications for morals and\nhuman relationships, and deemphasizing those aspects that were later\nto give Paul so much trouble.", "\nLarry -\n\nThanks for the reply, but this isn't quite the same thing. Like I said before, \nI can understand why non-Christians would be denied *access* to holy \nceremonies, but the ceremony itself (communion) was not secret. In fact, all \nfour gospels record the first \"breaking of the bread\" in some detail. \nCommunion was a fellowship meal, and it was (and still should be, in my \nopinion) inappropriate to invite those who did not share in the fellowship of \nthe Body of Christ. The fact that unbelievers, denied access to these communal \nmeals, began to imagine all sorts of secret and debased rituals during \ncommunion does not by any means imply that the early Christians were in fact \nhiding shameful things from the general public. In fact, I think if you read \nsome of the early church fathers, you will find that they were not at all \nbashful about describing what went on during communion. That's why it seems \nfunny to me when Mormons, who claim to be the only true restoration of 1st \ncentury Christianity, insist on hiding certain rituals on the grounds that they \nare \"too sacred.\"\n\n- Mark", "First, I would like to thank all who sent me their opinions on the matter\nat hand. All advice was taken to heart, if not directly used. My friend\nfound out about the matter quite accidently. After reading some of my\nmail, I quit from the mail reader & went about my business. I must have\ntrashed my mail improperly, because he got on the same terminal the next\nday & saw my old messages. He thought they were responses to a post he\nplaced in alt.atheism earlier that week, so he read some of them before\nrealizing that they were for me. I got a message from him the next day; he\napologized for reading my mail & said that he did not want to appear to be\na snoop. He said that he would be willing to talk to me about his views &\ndidn't mind doing so, especially with a friend. So we did. I neither\nchanged his mind nor did he change mine, as that was not the point. Now he\nknows where I'm coming from & now I know where he's coming from. And all\nthat I can do is pray for him, as I've always done.\n\nI believe the reason that he & I \"click\" instead of \"bash\" heads is because\nI see Christianity as a tool for revolution, & not a tool for maintaining\nthe status quo. To be quite blunt, I have more of a reason to reject God\nthan he does just by the fact that I am an African-American female. \nChristianity & religion have been used as tools to separate my people from\nthe true knowledge of our history & the wealth of our contributions to the\nworld society. The \"kitchen of heaven\" was all we had to look forward to\nduring the slave days, & this mentality & second-class status still exists\ntoday. I, too, have rejected\nan aspect of Christianity----that of the estabished church. Too much\nhypocricy exists behind the walls of \"God's house\" beginning with the\nimages of a white Jesus to that of the members: praise God on Sunday &\nraise hell beginning Monday. God-willing, I will find a church home where\nI can feel comfortable & at-home, but I don't see it happening anytime\nsoon.", "\n\n\n\nTrue to a point. If you were to ask a Buddhist atheist...\n\n\n\nActually, yes and no, Hell is eternal death. Actually, the way \n I've had it related to me, it's more of an eternal damnation,\n where sinners will feel the licking flames of Hell. If I\n supposedly can feel these flames, I would assume I'm still\n alive, but suffering and away from God.\n\n\nI believe Jehovah's Witnesses have a similar view, where the body\n sleeps for ever...\n\nI don't have a problem with being condemned to Hell either. The\n way I see it, if God wants to punish me for being honest in\n my skepticism (that is, for saying he doesn't exist), He\n certainly wouldn't be changing His nature. Besides, I would\n rather spend an eternity in Hell than be beside God in Heaven\n knowing even one man would spend his \"eternal life\" being\n scorched for his wrongdoings...\n\nStephen\n\n _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ * Atheist\n _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ * Libertarian\n _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ * Pro-individuality\n _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ * Pro-responsibility\n_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Jr. * and all that jazz...\n", "I wrote that I thought that 2 Peter 1:20 meant, \"no prophecy of\nScripture (or, as one reader suggests, no written prophecy) is\nmerely the private opinion of the writer.\"\n\nTony Zamora replies (Sat 8 May 1993) that this in turn implies that\nit is not subject to the private interpretation of the reader\neither. I am not sure that I understand this.\n In one sense, no statement by another is subject to my private\ninterpretation. If reliable historians tell me that the Athenians\nlost the Pelopennesian War, I cannot simply interpret this away\nbecause I wanted the Athenians to win. Facts are facts and do not go\naway because I want them to be otherwise.\n In another sense, every statement is subject to private\ninterpretation, in that I have to depend on my brains and\nexpereience to decide what it means, and whether it is sufficiently\nwell attested to merit my assent. Even if the statement occurs in an\ninspired writing, I still have to decide, using my own best\njudgement, whether it is in fact inspired. This is not arrogance --\nit is just an inescapable fact.", "\nI'd appreciate some support for this statement. I'm not sure\nit really makes sense to me.\n\n\nI've heard this frequently - what exactly is Pascal's wager?\n\n\nI don't know. You point out that your mother's treatment upset you,\nand see inconsistencies in various religions. I'm not sure if that\nconstitutes broken-ness or not. It certainly consititutes \ndisillusionment.", "\nContradicting itself on facts, for example.", "\n[Discussion on Josephus inserts]\n\nThanks. Am I correct, then, in assuming that that Josephus\ndid in fact write about Jesus, but Christian copists embellished it?", "\nAt the time Ezekiel was written, Israel was in apostacy again and if I'm not \nmistaken, Tyre was about to make war on Israel. Like I said, the Prince of \nTyre was the human ruler of Tyre. He was a wicked man. By calling Satan \nthe King of Tyre, Ezekiel was saying that Satan is the real ruler over Tyre.\n\nDon't think my interpretation is neccessarily the orthodox Christian one, \nalthough most Christian Bible commentaries interpret the King of Tyre as \nbeing a reference to Satan. (I haven't read Ezekiel throughly in a long \ntime.)", " \n \nThe argument goes as follows: Q-oid quotes appear in John, but not in\nthe almost codified way they were in Matthew or Luke. However, they are\nconsidered to be similar enough to point to knowledge of Q as such, and\nnot an entirely different source.\n \n \n \nWe are talking date of texts here, not the age of the authors. The usual\nexplanation for the time order of Mark, Matthew and Luke does not consider\ntheir respective ages. It says Matthew has read the text of Mark, and Luke\nthat of Matthew (and probably that of Mark).\n \nAs it is assumed that John knew the content of Luke's text. The evidence\nfor that is not overwhelming, admittedly.\n \n \n \nWhen they are from about 200, why do they shed doubt on the order on\nputting John after the rest of the three?\n \n \n \nSure, an original together with Id card of sender and receiver would be\nfine. So what's that supposed to say? Am I missing something?\n \n \n \nThat John was a disciple is not generally accepted. The style and language\ntogether with the theology are usually used as counterargument.\n \nThe argument that John was a disciple relies on the claim in the gospel\nof John itself. Is there any other evidence for it?\n \nOne step and one generation removed is bad even in our times. Compare that\nto reports of similar events in our century in almost illiterate societies.\nNot even to speak off that believers are not necessarily the best sources.\n \n \nIn other words, one does not know what the original of Mark did look like\nand arguments based on Mark are pretty weak.", "\nIf all of those are \"is\"'s of identity, both syllogisms are valid.\nIf, however, B is a predicate, then the second syllogism is invalid.\n(The first syllogism, as you have pointed out, is valid--whether B\nis a predicate or designates an individual.)", "From Bit.listserv.christia\n\nZane writes...\n \nFrom: FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET (zane of dhahan)\nSubject: Christianity in Crisis\nDate: Wed May 12 14:43:19 1993\n \n\"Frank, first of all, thanks for all of the great Scripture verses. It\nwas a pleasure to read them.\"\n \nMY REPLY...\nYou are welcome, Zane.\n \nZane...\n\"I am sure nothing that I will say will change your mind about it... but I\nwould like to ask you if the book in question really does anything for you.\nI mean, were you all caught up in the word/faith thing, but now that you\nhave read the book you've been rescued from all of the error and pain that\nwill result in your Christian life?\"\n \nMY REPLY...\n(1) When I first became a Christian, I entered into the Word/Faith\n movement. It was easy. I wasn't grounded in the Word of God and sound\n doctrine. When I visited Christian book stores, the cheapest books I\n could find to buy were the .50 and $1.00 books by Hagin and others.\n Consequently, I began receiving Hagin's monthly magazine (and they\n still send it to me), and also Copeland's (also, still sent to me).\n It wasn't until I read a booklet by Jimmy Swaggart called _Hyper Faith:\n The New Gnosticism_ that I began to realize the teachings I were\n partaking of were error. I started reading the Bible more and studying\n more. Sure enough, Jimmy was right in many points. As part of my\n experience, I am alerting Christians, particularly new Christians, that\n these teachings are heretical and they need to do as the Bereans did in\n Acts 17:11 - check these teachings out with Scripture!\n \n(2) My brother in law was involved in a Word/Faith \"cult\" in my area - it's\n leader is real good friends with Benny Hinn. Rather then going into\n much detail about this, suffice it to say he was deceived, mistreated, and\n has now fallen into atheism. I'm still praying for him (Phil. 1:6).\n \n(3) The assistant pastor at the church I teach adult Sunday School in has been\n a `follower' of Copeland for 15 years. He has thousands of tapes by the\n Faith teachers. In the class recently, I quoted several of the teachers'\n heretical statements to his surprise. Since then, I've been able to talk\n to him at length about these issues.\n \n(4) The leader of the Women's Group at my church is a Benny Hinn `fan'.\n Recently, I found that she has been lending _Good Morning, Holy Spirit_ to\n women in the church. That prompted my quotes in Sunday School, as well as\n my lending CIC to people in the church.\n \nI'm well aware of the abuses and heresies perpetrated in this movement and\nhave an urgency in my heart and life to warn people about the heresies.\nWhat heresies?\n A. Jesus became sin - took on the very nature of the devil, and became\n one with him.\n B. Jesus' death on the cross wasn't enough to atone.\n C. Jesus was dragged to hell after His death, was beat and abused by\n Satan and demons, thus finishing our atonement. Satan was ruling\n over Him there.\n D. Jesus was `born-again' in hell.\n E. Jesus died spiritually, lost His divinity, and reassumed it after\n the resurrection.\n F. We are gods.\n \nThese are heresies. Documentation will be provided re: these teachings\nupon request.\n \nZane...\n\"Or what does it do for you? Is it preventing you from going out and\njoining up with the word/faith movement which you'd been contemplating\njoining for so long, but now that you've read the book, you've been saved\nfrom all of that?\"\n \nMY REPLY...\nIt wasn't _Christianity In Crisis_ that helped me; it was a booklet by\nSwaggart that I mentioned above. But CIC is MUCH, MUCH better - tremendous\ndocumentation and insights.\n \nZane...\n\"I don't have a nice Scriptural answer for why I believe it is at best un-\nprofitable for Christians to engage in this type of activity - heresy hunting.\"\n \nMY REPLY...\nWhy do you call it \"heresy hunting\"? \"Hunting\" implies it isn't readily\naccessible or available. This movement is the fastest growing movement in\nChristendom. Hagin has sold over 40 million books and booklets. Hinn has sold\nmore books in the last couple of years than Swindoll and Dobson combined. Fred\nPrice has the largest church in terms of seating capacity in the USA. Doesn't\nsound like much \"hunting\" is needed.\n \nIt is Scriptural to expose doctrinal error. I gave some verses to you before.\nMore can be given. Most of the epistles were written due to error (doctrinal,\npractical) in the churches. The early church had numerous councils to expose\nerror and heresy. It's not a new thing. Remember Luther?\n \nZane...\n\"I would like to point out though, that historically those who hunt heretics\noften end up causing a bigger mess than the heretics... but this is my un-\ndocumented opinion.\"\n \nMY REPLY...\n(1) If you can provide documentation, it would be appreciated.\n(2) Read Ephesians 4:11-16, esp. vss. 13 and 14 and tell me what causes\n disunity and immaturity in the body.\n \nEPH 4:13-14 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of\nthe Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness\nof Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried\nabout with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning\ncraftiness of deceitful plotting....\n \nDisunity, contrary to popular opinion, isn't caused by exposing error; it's\ncaused by error.\n \nZane...\n\"There are many who probably give no place for seeing the Scriptures as\ndocumenting a Spiritual development or growth in its writers - but I would\nsuggest that the fiery Paul of the letter to the Galatians mellows and\nmatures into the one who loses all for the sake of Love in the End.\"\n \nMY REPLY...\nMost scholars believe Paul wrote 2 Timothy last. Let's examine his admonitions\nto Tim to ascertain how mellow he had become...\n \n2TI 1:13-15 Hold fast the pattern of sound words which you have heard from me,\nin faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. That good thing which was\ncommitted to you, keep by the Holy Spirit who dwells in us. This you know, that\nall those in Asia have turned away from me, among whom are Phygellus and\nHermogenes.\n \n2TI 2:15-18 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does\nnot need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane\nand idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. And their\nmessage will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who\nhave strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already\npast; and they overthrow the faith of some.\n \n2TI 2:24-26 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all,\nable to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if\nGod perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and\nthat they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having\nbeen taken captive by him to do his will.\n \n2TI 3:6-9 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make\ncaptives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts,\nalways learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now as\nJannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of\ncorrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; but they will progress no\nfurther, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was.\n \n2TI 3:12-17 Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer\npersecution. But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving\nand being deceived. But you must continue in the things which you have learned\nand been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from\nchildhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise\nfor salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by\ninspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for\ncorrection, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be\ncomplete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.\n \n2TI 4:2-5 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince,\nrebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come\nwhen they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires,\nbecause they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and\nthey will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.\nBut you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an\nevangelist, fulfill your ministry.\n \n2TI 4:14-15 Alexander the coppersmith did me much harm. May the Lord repay him\naccording to his works. You also must beware of him, for he has greatly\nresisted our words.\n \nZane...\n\"The picture I have of Paul is not of one who goes out of his way to destroy\nthe ministry of wolves... but of one who teaches the sheep, with many tears,\nthe necessity of absolutely not allowing themselves to be transformed into\nwolves to protect themselves.\"\n \nMY REPLY...\nACT 20:26-31 \"Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the\nblood of all men. \"For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel\nof God. \"Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which\nthe Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He\npurchased with His own blood. \"For I know this, that after my departure savage\nwolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. \"Also from among\nyourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the\ndisciples after themselves. \"Therefore watch, and remember that for three years\nI did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.\n \nZane...\n\"For all the warning Paul does, it is of note that he never once drops a name\nof a wolf.... - but I will admit he cries in his beard at the end over those\nwho have abandoned him - everyone in Asia wasn't it ?\"\n \nMY REPLY...\nPaul mentioned names...\n \n1TI 1:18-20 This charge I commit to you, son Timothy, according to the\nprophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you may wage the good\nwarfare, having faith and a good conscience, which some having rejected,\nconcerning the faith have suffered shipwreck, of whom are Hymenaeus and\nAlexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.\n \n2TI 1:15 This you know, that all those in Asia have turned away from me, among\nwhom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.\n \n2TI 2:16-18 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more\nungodliness. And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus\nare of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the\nresurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some.\n \n2TI 4:10 for Demas has forsaken me, having loved this present world, and has\ndeparted for Thessalonica--Crescens for Galatia, Titus for Dalmatia.\n \n2TI 4:14-15 Alexander the coppersmith did me much harm. May the Lord repay him\naccording to his works. You also must beware of him, for he has greatly\nresisted our words.\n \nSo did John...\n \n3JO 1:9-10 I wrote to the church, but Diotrephes, who loves to have the\npreeminence among them, does not receive us. Therefore, if I come, I will call\nto mind his deeds which he does, prating against us with malicious words. And\nnot content with that, he himself does not receive the brethren, and forbids\nthose who wish to, putting them out of the church.\n \nJesus also singled out teachings and doctrines...\n \nREV 2:14-16 \"But I have a few things against you, because you have there those\nwho hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block\nbefore the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit\nsexual immorality. \"Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the\nNicolaitans, which thing I hate. 'Repent, or else I will come to you quickly\nand will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.\n \nREV 2:20-23 \"Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow\nthat woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My\nservants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. \"And I\ngave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent.\n\"Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her\ninto great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. \"I will kill her\nchildren with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches\nthe minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your\nworks.\n \nZane...\n\"I question too, the purposes of those who write books and build ministries\non the faults - deliberate or otherwise - of others. Maybe if they would\nwander around in the desert eating locust and honey, or barely cakes...with\nno worldly goods at stake, money to be made, or no reputations to maintain...\nI would question their motives - conscious or otherwise - less.\"\n \nMY REPLY...\nI won't comment on this because it deals with the intangible motives of others.\nBut even if they had bad motives, remember what Paul said...\n \nPHI 1:15-18 Some indeed preach Christ even from envy and strife, and some also\nfrom good will: The former preach Christ from selfish ambition, not sincerely,\nsupposing to add affliction to my chains; but the latter out of love, knowing\nthat I am appointed for the defense of the gospel. What then? Only that in\nevery way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is preached; and in this I\nrejoice, yes, and will rejoice.\n \nZane...\n\"If we want to be true to the admonitions of Scripture - many of which you\nlist - about protecting ourselves and the flock from wolves and winds of\ndoctrines, I suggest we start by allowing the wolf-program in our own noetic\npasture to be nailed to the Cross.\"\n \nMY REPLY...\nPlease explain.\n \nZane...\n\"Secondly, I suggest any heresy hunting be restricted to our own fellowships -\nwhich in the strict Scriptural sense is the local city-church.\"\n \nMY REPLY...\nIf heresy was not being propagated over the mass media, then it may not be\nneeded to go mass media with the exposure. Unfortunately, heresy is being\ntaught not just in Copeland's church or Hagin's or Hinn's or Price's, but all\nover the radio, in print, etc. No pastor or church leader knows what materials\nthe sheep are feeding on outside the church. It's imperative that leadership\nbe made aware of this, and CIC does just that.\n \nAlso, let's examine a passage of Scripture...\n* EPH 4:11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some\nevangelists, and some pastors and teachers,\n* EPH 4:12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the\nedifying of the body of Christ,\n \nThese ministry gifts that the Lord installs in the church are not just for one\nindividual church, but for \"the body of Christ\".\nPaul was an apostle - he traveled all over distilling his message. He was also\na teacher -\n1CO 4:17 For this reason I have sent Timothy to you, who is my beloved and\nfaithful son in the Lord, who will remind you of my ways in Christ, as I teach\neverywhere in every church.\n1CO 7:17 But as God has distributed to each one, as the Lord has called each\none, so let him walk. And so I ordain in all the churches.\n \nAlso -\n1CO 12:28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second\nprophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps,\nadministrations, varieties of tongues.\n \n* EPH 4:13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of\nthe Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness\nof Christ;\n \nNotice that the \"Five-Fold\" ministries are going to be around \"till\" the church\nis in \"unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God to a perfect\nman\". This, I believe will not occur fully until the Lord Jesus returns (see\n1Cor. 13:9-12). But God wants the body to continue on maturing. What hinders\nmaturity and unity of the body?\n \n* EPH 4:14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried\nabout with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning\ncraftiness of deceitful plotting,\n \nIt's clear that false doctrine, integrated into the church \"by the trickery of\nmen\" causes (1) disunity [the thing we are striving for] and (2) spiritual\nimmaturity - the church continues in spiritual childhood when Christians are\n\"tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine\".\n \nThe \"Five -Fold\" ministry, of which there does not appear to be clear\nScriptural denominational boundaries (\"pastors\" appear responsible for their\nindividual flock), is to deal with these doctrines (when necessary) in their\nstruggle to equip the body.\n \nAll believers are called to do this to a degree...\nJUD 1:3-4 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our\ncommon salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend\nearnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. For\ncertain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this\ncondemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny\nthe only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.\n \nZane...\n\"If you'll notice, in Scripture the heresy hunters that went from Church to\nChurch and area to area, were the \"bad guys\" and they went after the \"good guy\"\nnamely Paul - who they considered to be the arch heretic.\"\n \nMY REPLY...\nThey were themselves heretics trying to discredit Paul who was preaching\ncontrary to what they taught!\n \nZane...\n\"Let's face it, the wolves are here for a reason. And we are here for the\nReason. And let's hope the wolves become sheep, and the sheep, lambs.\"\n \nMY REPLY...\nYes!\n2TI 2:24-26 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all,\n ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\nable to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~\nGod perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\nthat they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having\nbeen taken captive by him to do his will.\n \nAMEN!\n\n\nFrank", "[insert deletion of unnecessary quote]\n\n\nFirst of all, God does not take any sort of pleasure from punishing\npeople. He will have mercy on whom he will have mercy and compassion on\nwhom he will have compassion (Ex 33:19). However, if he enjoyed\npunishing people and sending them to hell, then why would he send Jesus\nto \"seek and save that which was lost\" (Luke 19:10)?\n\nYou asked for it.\n\n2 Peter 2:4-ff talks about how those who are ungodly are punished.\nMatthew 25:31-46 is also very clear that those who do not righteous in\nGod's eyes will be sent to hell for eternity.\n2 Thessalonians 1:6-10 states that those who cause trouble for the\ndisciples \"will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out\nfrom the presence of the Lord\".\n2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 talks about those who refuse to love the truth\nbeing condemned.\nRevelation 21:6-8 talks about the difference between those who overcomes\nand those who do not. Those who do not, listed in verse 8, will be in\nthe \"fiery lake of burning sulfur\".\nRevelation 14:9-12 gives the indication that those who follow the beast\n\"will be tormented with burning sulfur\" and there being \"no rest day or\nnight\" for them because of it.\nPsalm 9:17: \"The wicked return to the grave, all the nations that\nforget God.\"\n\nI think those should be sufficient to prove the point.\n\n\nJoe Fisher\n\n[In the following I'm mostly playing \"devil's advocate\". I'm not\nadvocating either position. My concern is that people understand that\nit's possible to see these passages in different ways. It's possible\nto see eternal destruction as just that -- destruction. Rev often\nuses the term \"second death\". The most obvious understanding of that\nwould seem to be final extinction. The problem is that the NT speaks\nboth of eternal punishment and of second death. I.e. it uses terms\nthat can be understood either way. My concern here is not to convince\nyou of one view or the other, but to help people understand that\nthere's a wide enough variety of images that it's possible to\nunderstand them either way. As Tom Albrecht commented, the primary\npoint is to do our best to keep people out of the eternal fire,\nwhatever the details. (To make things more interesting, Luke 20:35\nimplies that the damned don't get resurrected at all. Presumably\nthey just stay dead. -- yes I'm aware that it's possible to \nunderstand this passage in a non-literal way.)\n\n2 Peter 2:4-ff is talking about angels, and talks about holding them\nin hell until the final judgement. This isn't eternal punishement.\n\nMatthew 25:31-46 talks about sending the cursed into eternal fire\nprepared for the devil and his angels. The fact that the fire is\neternal doesn't mean that people will last in its flames forever.\nParticularly interesting is the comment about the fire having been\nprepared for the devil and his angels. Rev 20 and 21 talk about the\neternal fire as well. They say that the beast and the false prophet\nwill be tormented forever in it. When talking about people being\nthrown into it (20:13-14), it is referred to as \"the second death\".\nThis sounds more like extinction than eternal torment. Is is possible\nthat the fire has different effects on supernatural entities such as\nthe devil, and humans?\n\n2 Thessalonians 1:6-10 similarly, what is \"everlasting destruction\"?\nThis is not necessarily eternal torment. This one can clearly be\nunderstood either way, but I think it's at least possible to think\nthat everlasting is being used to contrast the kind of destruction\nthat can occur in this life with the final destruction that occurs in\neternity.\n\n2 Thessalonians 2:8 again talks about destruction.\nRevelation 21:6-8: see comment above\nRevelation 14:9-12 is probably the best of the quotes. Even there,\nit doesn't explicitly say that the people suffer forever. It says\nthat the smoke (and presumably the fire) is eternal, and that \nthere is no respite from it. But it doesn't say that the people\nare tormented forever.\n\nPsalm 9:17: I don't see that it says anything relevant to this issue.", "Pardon me if this is the wrong newsgroup. I would describe myself as\nan agnostic, in so far as I'm sure there is no single, universal\nsupreme being, but if there is one and it is just, we will surely be\njudged on whether we lived good lives, striving to achieve that\ngoodness that is within the power of each of us. Now, the\ncomplication is that one of my best friends has become very\nfundamentalist. That would normally be a non-issue with me, but he\nfeels it is his responsibility to proselytize me (which I guess it is,\naccording to his faith). This is a great strain to our friendship. I\nwould have no problem if the subject didn't come up, but when it does,\nthe discussion quickly begins to offend both of us: he is offended\nbecause I call into question his bedrock beliefs; I am offended by\nwhat I feel is a subscription to superstition, rationalized by such\ncircular arguments as 'the Bible is God's word because He tells us in\nthe Bible that it is so.' So my question is, how can I convince him\nthat this is a subject better left undiscussed, so we can preserve\nwhat is (in all areas other than religious beliefs) a great\nfriendship? How do I convince him that I am 'beyond saving' so he\nwon't try? Thanks for any advice.\n", "\n\n\n\nStrictly speaking, you're right - we can't repent _for_ somebody else,\nfor what they've done. I guess I don't think it's out of line to talk\nabout a generalized repentence for our contribution to or participation\nin \"The sins of society\" , or for our tacit approval (by our silence) of\nsinful attitudes or practices....it may be that we're also just plain\nbegging for mercy, hoping God will withhold his hand of judgement on\nour whole country for the sake of a few, much as Abraham sought to do\nfor the sake of Lot. (Hmmm, the results there were pretty cautionary...)\n\nA few times lately when I've observed some either out-and-out sinful \nactivity, or just some self-destructive activity, I've gotten a strong\nimpression that many folks really don't know any better. Christ's pity\non the crowds as being \"like sheep without a shepherd\" rings true to me.\nIf these folks don't have a clue, do I bear _any_ responsibility for my\nnot having communicated a better way? Worse still; have I expressed \njudgement and disgust at their doings, and thus alienated them from any \npositive relationship whereby I might pass along anything positive? \nI _know_ I've got something to repent about on that score.\n\nAnyway, it's a real interesting question. ", "\nI may be interesting to see some brief selections posted to the net.\nMy understanding is that SSPX does not consider ITSELF in schism\nor legitimately excommunicated. But that's really beside the point.\nWhat does the Roman Catholic church say? Excommunication can be\nreal apart from formal excommunication, as provided for in canon law.\n\nAfter all we Orthodox don't cinsider ourselves schismatic or\nexcommunicated. But the Catholic Church considers us dissident.\n\nIf this is inappropriate for this group or beyond the charter,\nI'm sure OFM will let us know.\n\nLarry Overacker (llo@shell.com)\n-- \n-------\nLawrence Overacker\nShell Oil Company, Information Center Houston, TX (713) 245-2965\nllo@shell.com", "Romans 8:28 (RSV) We know that in everything God works for good with those \nwho love him, who are called according to his purpose. \n\nMurphy's Law: If anything can go wrong, it will.\n\nWe are all quite familiar with the amplifications and commentary on\nMurphy's Law. But how do we harmonize that with Romans 8:28? For that\nmatter, how appropriate is humor contradicted by Scripture?", "\nI think that's an insightful comment. Especially when at the\nsame time we have people like Bill \"Projector\" Conner complaining\nthat we are posting parodies.", ": Hi,\n\n: I am new to this newsgroup, and also fairly new to christianity.\n: ... I realize I am very ignorant about much of the Bible and\n: quite possibly about what Christians should hold as true. This I am trying\n: to rectify (by reading the Bible of course), but it would be helpful\n: to also read a good interpretation/commentary on the Bible or other\n: relevant aspects of the Christian faith. One of my questions I would\n: like to ask is - Can anyone recommend a good reading list of theological\n: works intended for a lay person?\n\nI'd recommend McDowell's \"Evidence that Demands a Verdict\" books (3 I\nthink) and Manfred Brauch's \"Hard Sayings of Paul\". He also may have\ndone \"Hard Sayings of Jesus\". My focus would be for a new Christian to\nstruggle with his faith and be encouraged by the historical evidence,\nespecially one who comes from a background which emphasizes knowable faith.", "= In article <1993Apr21.231552.24869@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>,\n= \n= Hmm, it seems that this is the core of Christianity then, you \n= have to feel guilty, and then there's this single personality\n= that will save you from this universal guilt feeling.\n= \n= Brian, I will tell you a secret, I don't feel guilty at all,\n= I do mistakes, and I regret them, however I've never had this\n= huge guilt feeling hanging over my shoulder.\n\nI will tell you another secret. I get this burning sensation in my\nhand every time I hold it over a candle. The pain does not fill my entire\nbody, and I'm told the longer I hold it here, the less it'll hurt (it'll\neventually burn up the nerves, or so I'm told). So I suppose I should just\nignore the pain, because holding my hand over the candle is something I just\nwant to do. I've got the right, don't I?\n\nYour body feels pain to let you know something is wrong. It's your body's\nalarm system informing you that something needs your attention.\n\nA fever tells you that you are sick, and need some sort of care.\n\nGuilt can be seen as that \"emotional or spiritual\" alarm, just informing you\nthat there is something that you've done that \"requires your attention\".\n\nIt doesn't require a \"personality type\" to become a believer. It requires\nsomeone who is willing to listen to themselves, their body & soul. \n\n= All I know is that I don't know everything. And frankly speaking\n= I don't care, life is fun anyway. I recognize that I'm not \n= perfect, but that does not hinder me from have a healthy\n= and inspiring life.\n\nFor several years all I knew is I really liked dropping 'cid (LSD).\nFrankly speaking, I didn't really care. It was fun anyway.\n\nIt didn't matter that every child my wife and I want to have are at a \n*tremendously* greater risk of serious birth defects.\n\nFor several years all I knew is I really liked having sex with as many women\nas I could convice. Frankly speaking, I didn't care. \n\nI didn't care that I was putting each one of them at risk (as well as their\nfuture partners).\n\nIt didn't matter that for the first decade of my marriage, my wife and I\nwill have the worry that possibly that last sneeze meant something *much*\nworse than a cold.\n\n= \n= There are humans that subscribe to the same notion. The nice\n= thing is that when you finally shake off this huge burden,\n= the shoulders feel far more relaxed!\n\nThe nice thing about pain killers, if you take enough, you won't care about \nthe fever, shortness of breath or pain.\n", "\nI see what you are getting at (or at least I think I do). Correct me if\nI am mistaken, but I *think* you are asking me if I still believe that we\nshould uphold all of the Laws pertaining to capital punishment for such\nthings as adultery, rape and other heinous crimes. As you may recall,\nJesus was confronted by this same question in regards to the adultress\nwho was caught in the act and brought before Jesus. And His reply, \"Let\nhe who is without sin cast the first stone.\" Jesus does not deny the\nsentence that is to due for this violation of the Law. What do you think\nof this?\n\n\nAgreed. :)\n \n\nAgreed also. If one is to use the Bible as a reference, one must always be\nopen to different interpretations. As a Christian, I have the Spirit of God\nto verify what I believe in the Word. If what the Spirit tells me is not\nbacked up in scripture then the spirit I am communicating with is not of\nGod. After all, Jesus tells us to \"test the spirits\" to know for sure that\nit is from God.\n\n\nI obey what the Spirit of God tells me to do. The Spirit will not violate\nanything that is written in the Bible because that is the Word of God. I do\nnot worship pastors, preachers, my wife, my mother or my father. What they\ntell me does not carry the weight of what God tells me to do and His commands\nare rienforced in the Bible.\n \n\nEternal damnation is the consequence of the choice one makes in rejecting\nGod. If you choose to jump off a cliff, you can hardly blame God for you \ngoing *splat* at the bottom. He knows that if you choose to jump, that \nyou will die but He will not prevent you from making that choice. In fact,\nHe sent His Son to stand on the edge of the cliff and tell everyone of what\nlies below. To prove that point, Jesus took that plunge Himself but He being\nGod was able to rise up again. I have seen the example of Christ and have \nchosen not to jump and I'm trying to tell you not to jump or else you'll \ngo *splat*.\n \nYou don't have to listen to me and I won't stop you if you decide to jump.\nI only ask that you check it out before taking the plunge. You owe it to\nyourself. I don't like seeing anyone go *splat*.\n\nGod be with you,", "\nIf the children are not being fed, whose fault is that? You and I\nhave plenty of food on our tables while others starve. Why is that?\nGod gave us this earth to manage. I don't think we're doing a very\ngood job of it. The only consolation I have for those suffering\nchildren is that they will be received into the kingdom of Heaven\nwhere they will never thirst and never hunger again.\n\nPeace be with you,\n\nMalcolm Lee :)", "\n\n\tMore to the point, how long are atheists going to be insulted\n\tby the disgraceful addition of religious blah-blah to our \n\tmoney and out pledge?\n-- \n\t\"What's big, noisy and has an IQ of 8?\"", "The last time we discussed homosexuality, I asked whether anyone could\nidentify any other act besides homosexual intercourse that the Bible\nprohibited, but which might in some circumstances bring no apparent\nharm to anyone. Put another way, the question is whether homosexual\nintercourse is the only act that Christians are supposed to believe\nis immoral solely on the basis that God says it is, with no insight\nbeing offered as to *why* it is immoral. No one could answer my\nquestion in either form from the Bible. (I did get an interesting\nresponse based on Roman Catholic theology).\n\nHowever, I think now that I can at least answer my first question.\nLink Hudson pointed me to it in his recent comments about sleeping\nwith one's aunt. Incest is held to be immoral in every society,\nthat is, there are some degrees of relationship where marriage\n(and thus, intercouse) is prohibited. The Bible is no exception.\nThe trouble is that it may be difficult to see *why* a particular\nrelationship qualifies as incestuous. Societies differ as to\nhow they define incest. Genetic reasons are sometimes offered, but\nall the Biblical cases cannot be dealt with that way. Why can't\na man sleep with his step mother--assuming that his father is\ndead and that he has \"married\" her? How does this case differ\nfrom the *duty* to marry one's brother's childless wife.\n\nAre these two cases parallel? Does the Bible prohibit some incestuous\nmarriages and homosexual marriages for the same reason, perhaps\nthat God knows they are not good for us and yet we are incapable\nof understanding why.\n\nP.S. Please don't bother writing me to tell me that I am a homophobe,\nas some did last time. My mind is not made up on these questions.\nYou don't know whether I am homophobic or not. You don't\nknow me. To call me or anyone else a homophobe without knowing the\nperson may be as much an expression of bigotry as some homophobic\nremarks.", "\nHi Bruce. How do you reconcile this practice with Ezekiel 18?\nEzekiel 18:20 \"The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not\nshare the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the\nson. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and\nthe wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.\"\n\nIs Ezekiel 18 not translated correctly in your eyes perhaps?\n\nSincerely,\n\nAaron Cardenas\n\nP.S. I too am bothered to see offensive words being posted on this\nnewsgroup. Obscenity is out of place for anyone who wants to live by the\nBible (Eph 5:4).\n\nModerator: I would appreciate your not letting posts with foul language\nthrough, which has happened at least twice lately. Thank you.", "\nMy sentiments exactly... which is why I'm unsubbing from this group.\nThis is the 3rd 'christian' discussion list I have ever belonged to\nand once again I'm being chased away by the strife, anger, discontent,\nlies, et al .\n\nAs Paul (Saul) said, 'I come to preach Christ, and Him crucified'\nDon't let the simple beauty of faith in God get overshadowed by heady\ntheological discussions or thousands of lines of post-incarnation\ntrappings of some church.\n\n\nAs for the atheists/agnostics who read this list: if you aren't\nchristian and if you have no intention of ever becoming one why on\nearth do you waste your time and mine by participating on a christian\ndiscussion list ?\n\nI will continue to search for christian discussion (prayerful, spirit-filled,\nkind, humble, patient, etc.) in other circles. \n\n-- \n Sheila Patterson, CIT CR-Technical Support Group\n 315 CCC - Cornell University\n Ithaca, NY 14853\n (607) 255-5388\n", "\n\tSo, if I were to assert that there are no thousand year old \ninvisible pink unicorns* residing in my walls, I need to support this with \nevidence? I think the _lack_ of evidence shall suffice.\n\n\n\t* Who happen to like listening to satanic messages found in playing \nBeethoven's 45th symphony backwards.\n---\n\n \"FBI officials said cult leader David Koresh may have \n forced followers to remain as flames closed in. Koresh's \n armed guard may have injected as many as 24 children with \n poison to quiet them.\"\n\n -\n \n \"And God saw everything he had made, and, behold, in was very \n good.\"", "Blessed are those\n\twho hunger and thirst\n\tfor righteousness,\n\tfor they will be filled.", "But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be\nmy witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the\nearth.\" \nActs 1:8\n", "[deletia- sig]\n\n[deletia- formalities]\n\nI probably should let this pass, it's not worth the time, and it's not\nreally intended for me. But I couldn't resist. A personal weakness of mine.\nJerkius Kneeus. Tragically incurable.\n\n\nNot so; I can prove that the existance of God is disputable\nby showing that people dispute it; This is easy: I dispute that\nGod exists. Simple.\n\nI missed your \"Traditional Proofs\" treatise, but the proofs I remember\nfrom the Summa Theologic (the 5 ways I think it was) were rather poor\nstuff. The Ontological argument is about a billion times better, imho.\n\nI would think you'd want non-traditional proofs, considering the general\nfailure of the traditional proofs: at least the ones I know of.\n(I am thinking of the Ontological Argument, the Cosmological Argument and\nthe Teleological argument. Those are the ones traditional enough to\nhave funny names, anyway.)\n\n\nThis is the real question. So to discuss it, I'll assume God exists.\nOtherwise, there is no heavenly authority to babble about.\n\n\nPlease show this is the case. I am familiar with the First Cause\nargument, and I'll accept (for the sake of argument) that there\nis a First Cause, even though I find some of its premices\nquestionable. The rest you'll have to show. This includes\nthat the First Cause is God.\n\n\nGot it. I deny that God is all good. So there.\n\n\nThis isn't self-consistent: if humans must renew the relationship,\nthen God (incarnate or not) can't do it. Well, unless you think God is\nhuman. Granted, God made himself 'human', but this is nonetheless cheating:\nThe intent of the statement is clearly that man has to fix the problem\nhe caused. God fixing it- even by indirect means- contradicts this.\n\n\nWhy?\n\nAlso, why assume said claim is true anyway?\n\nIf *I* claim to be Truth, are you bound by reason to follow me?\n\n\n:)\n\nUndoubtably. Do you mean to imply we should all obey the commands of the\nMarines without question? You seem to imply this about God, and\nthat the Marines are similar in this respect.. If this is not what\nyou are trying to say, they please explain what it is you are saying,\nas I have missed it.\n\n\nWhy? Why not question it? Even if it *is* truth, we cannot know this\ncertainly, so why is it so irrational to question? Perhaps we will\nthus discover that we were wrong.\n\nYou assert that God is Truth and we can't question Truth. But\nI assert that God is not Truth and anyway we can question Truth.\nHow is it my assertion is less good than yours?\n\n\nOh?\n\nI hereby deny 1+1=2.\n\nI hope you'll agree 1+1=2 is the truth.\n\nGranted, I look pretty damn silly saying something like that,\nbut I needed something we'd both agree was clearly true.\n\nNow, you'll notice no stormtroopers have marched in to drag\nme off to the gulag. No heaven lighting bolts either. No mysterious\nnet outages. I seem to be permited to say such things, absurd or not.\n\n\nThey are certainly not true. At least, the ones Newton derived are\nnot true, and are indeed wildly inaccurate at high speeds or small\ndistances. We do not have a set of Laws of Physics that always\nworks in all cases. If we did, Physics would be over already.\n\nScience is all about Questioning this sort of truth. If we didn't,\nwe'd still follow Aristotle. I'd generalize this a little more:\nIf you want to learn anything new, you MUST question the things\nyou Know (tm). Because you can always be wrong.\n\n\nEven presupposing that Truth may not be Denied, and may\nnot be Questioned, and that God is Truth, it only follows\nthat God may not be Denied or Questioned. NOT that he must\nbe obeyed!\n\nWe could unquestioningly DISobey him. How annoying of us.\nBut you have not connected denial with disobedience.\n\n---\n\t\t\t- Dan \"No Nickname\" Johnson\nAnd God said \"Jeeze, this is dull\"... and it *WAS* dull. Genesis 0:0", "->In article <1993Apr9.151914.1885@daffy.cs.wisc.edu>, mccullou@snake2.cs.wisc.edu\n->>\n->>In article monack@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (david\n->>>Another issue is that by having to request to not be required to\n->>>recite the \"so help me God\" part of the oath, a theistic jury may be\n->>>prejudiced against your testimony even though atheism is probably not\n->>>at all relevant to the case.\n->>>\n->>>What is the recommended procedure for requesting an alternate oath or\n->>>affirmation?\n->>>\n->>>Dave\n\nSorry for using a follow-up to respond, but my server dropped about a weeks worth of news\nwhen it couldn't keep up.\n\nWhen the you are asked to swear \"So help you god\" and you have to say it, ask which one; Jesus,\nAllah, Vishnu, Zues, Odin. Get them to be specific. Don't be obnoxious, just humbly ask, then \nquitely sit back and watch the fun.\n\n---\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nJames L. Felder\t\t\t|\nSverdrup Technology,Inc.\t| phone: 216-891-4019\nNASA Lewis Research Center \t| \nCleveland, Ohio 44135 \t| email: jfelder@lerc.nasa.gov \n\"Some people drink from the fountain of knowledge, other people gargle\"", "\n\nConsiderably better than I feel about, say, the Punic Wars, or the \nPeloponnesian War (spelling optional), or almost any other event in \nclassical history. How close to the events do you think the oldest \nextent manuscripts are in those cases?\n", "\nPlease forgive all the inclusions. I suppose they are neccessary to follow\nthe argument.\n\nMy point is that \"if life has meaning or importance then we should try\nto find that meaning or importance\" which is almost a tautology. (I hope\nI'm not being too patronizing.) One term for that meaning is \"Creator\",\nthough that is not obvious from my above argument.\n\n\n(It's more like \"I think, therefore I am, therefore God is.\")\n\n\nUnfortunately the term \"religious\" is ambiguous to me in this context.\nI could say that searching for meaning in life is by definition being\nreligious. I could say cult followers by definition have given up on \nthe search.\n\nIf you want \"meaning\" why not search for the truth?\n\nSo far, my understanding of Christianity is congruent with my understanding\nof truth. There have been many before me who have come to conclusions \nthat are worded in ways that make sense to me. By no means does that imply\nthat I understand everything. ", "\n You may not think that it is fair, but how many sins do you know of\nthat affect only the sinner? Is it fair for us even to be able to get\ninto Heaven? Do we have a _right_ to Heaven, even if we were to lead\nsinless lives? Anyway, your argument seems to be saying, \"If _I_ were\nGod, I certainly wouldn't do things that way; therefore, God doesn't do\nthings that way.\"\n\n\tIsaiah 55:8-9:\n\n\t\"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my\n\tways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the\n\tearth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts\n\tthan your thoughts.\"\n\n Original Sin is biblical:\n\n\tRomans 5:12-14:\n\n\t\"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death\n\tby sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have\n\tsinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not\n\timputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from\n\tAdam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the\n\tsimilitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him\n\tthat was to come.\"\n\n\t1 Corinthians 15:22:\n\n\t\"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made\n\talive.\"", "Fred Gilham asks whether it is true that Goedel wrote a version of\nthe ontological argument for the existence of God.\n\nYes, it is true. Someone has published a rebuttal pointing out\ncertain flaws in the argument, and recently Professor C Anthony\nAnderson, of the Philosophy Department of the University of\nMinnesota, has written a revised version of the argument, perhaps\nfree of flaws, and at any rate free of the flaws complained of in\nthe original version. He has sent me a copy, which I still have (I\nsaw it last week when I was looking for something else), and when it\nsurfaces again I can supply particulars. My guess is that it is\nbeing published (or already has been) in the Journal of Symbolic\nLogic.", "\n Bill, I find it rather remarkable that you managed to zero in on what is\nprobably the weakest evidence.\n\n What is probably the most convincing is the anti-Christian literature put out\nby the Jewish councils in the second century. There are enormous quantities of\ndetailed arguments against Christianity, many of the arguments still being used\ntoday. Despite volumes of tracts attacking Christianity, not one denies the\nexistance of Jesus, only of his activities.\n\n I find this considerably more compelling than Josephus or the harmony of the\ngospels (especially considering that Matthew and Luke probably used Mark as a\nsource).", "\n\n\n\n[ 2 good reasons deleted. AI]\n\n\nIt's even worse than that --\n\n\"Ye shall not add unto the word which I \ncommand you, neither shall ye diminish \nfrom it\" (Deut. 4:2).\nShall we rip out every page from our \nBibles beginning from Joshua through\nRevelation?", "\nSorry to disappoint you, but I'm afraid your friendship is in danger. \nPerhaps you should examine in yourself why as such a good friend, you \nare unwilling to accept this imortant part of your friends life? Why \ndo you call into question his faith? Your friend has changed, he has \nfound something that fills a need in his life. You need to decide if \nyou are still his friend, whether you can accommodate his new life. \nIt sounds as if you are criticizing him for a fundamental belief in \nthe Bible, yet you are quick to reveal that your fundamental belief \nthat it is superstition. Perhaps if he knew you at least took him \nseriously, that you at least took an interest in the light he has found, \nthat you at least tried to understand what has become a special part of \nhis life, you could together decide to become fundamentalists, respect \neach others differences and remain friends, or part ways. Maybe even if \nyou stuck it out with him, you could help him to un-convert. Of course, \nif you go in with that attitude he will surely see through your intentions \nand begin to resent you.\n\nI happen to be a person very tolerant of fundamentalists, because I know\nthat the idea of a simple black and white approach to life is appealing.\nI don't happen to share the beliefs of fundamentalists, but I am not\noffended by their prosyletizing. I had a few good conversations with\nsome Witnesses who came to my door. I didn't switch my beliefs, but for\nthose at home who maybe need a friendly face to invite them somewhere,\nthe Witnesses provide a wonderful service. You may have been conditioned\nto believe that religion is unimportant and witnessing is obnoxious, but\nwhy? Are you afraid you might be converted and become one of them, that\nyou will be swept up in fundamentalism, that you will become a weirdo.\nFriendship's a two-way street. You must respect your friend, ALL of him,\nincluding his beliefs, if you want the friendship to continue.", ")\n)That's your mistake. It would be better for the children if the mother\n)raised the child.\n)\n)One thing that relates is among Navy men that get tatoos that say \"Mom\",\n)because of the love of their mom. It makes for more virile men.\n)Compare that with how homos are raised. Do a study and you will get my\n)point.\n)\n)But in no way do you have a claim that it would be better if the men\n)stayed home and raised the child. That is something false made up by\n)feminists that seek a status above men. You do not recognize the fact\n)that men and women have natural differences. Not just physically, but\n)mentally also.\n) [...]\n)Your logic. I didn't say americans were the cause of worlds problems, I\n)said atheists.\n) [...]\n)Becuase they have no code of ethics to follow, which means that atheists\n)can do whatever they want which they feel is right. Something totally\n)based on their feelings and those feelings cloud their rational\n)thinking.\n) [...]\n)Yeah. I didn't say that all atheists are bad, but that they could be\n)bad or good, with nothing to define bad or good.\n)\n\n Awright! Bobby's back, in all of his shit-for-brains glory. Just\n when I thought he'd turned the corner of progress, his Thorazine\n prescription runs out. \n\n I'd put him in my kill file, but man, this is good stuff. I wish\n I had his staying power.\n\n Fortunately, I learned not to take him too seriously long,long,long\n ago.\n\n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ \n\nBob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM \n\nThey said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,\nand sank Manhattan out at sea.", "\nWhat do you mean by omnipotent here? Do you mean by \"omnipotent\"\nthat God should be able to do anything/everything? This creates\na self-contradictory definition of omnipotence which is effectively\nuseless.\n\nTo be descriptive, omnipotence must mean \"being all-powerful\" and\nnot \"being able to do anything/everything\".\n\nLet me illustrate by analogy.\nSuppose the United States were the only nuclear power on earth. Suppose\nfurther that the US military could not effectively be countered by any\nnation or group of nations. The US has the power to go into any country\nat any time for any reason to straighten things out as the leaders of the\nUS see fit. The US would be militarily \"omnipotent\".\n\nBut suppose further that the US holds to a doctrine/philosophy of not\ninterfering in the internal affairs of any nation, such as the current\ncivil war in the former Yugoslavian states.\n\nTechnically (in this scenario) the US would have the power to \nunilaterally go into Yugoslavia and straighten out the mess. But\neffectively the US could not intervene without violating its own policy \nof non-interference. If the policy of non-interference were held to\nstrongly enough, then there would never be a question that it would\never be violated. Effectively, the US would be limited in what it\ncould actually do, although it had the power to do \"whatever it wanted\".\nThe US would simply \"never want to interfere\" for such an idea would\nbe beyond the consideration of its leaders given such an inviolate\nnon-interference policy.\n\nGod is effectively limited in the same sense. He is all powerful, but\nHe cannot use His power in a way that would violate the essence of what\nHe, Himself is.\n\nI hope this helps to clear up some of the misunderstanding concerning\nomnipotence.\n\nRegards,", "[deleted]\nthink:\n[deleted]\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nLet me first say that \"to believe that no gods exist\" is in fact \ndifferent than \"not believing in a god or gods\". \n\nI will argue that your latter statement, \"I believe that no gods exist\"\ndoes rest upon faith - that is, if you are making a POSITIVE statement \nthat \"no gods exist\" (strong atheism) rather than merely saying I don't \nknow and therefore don't believe in them and don't NOT believe in then\n(weak atheism). Once again, to not believe in God is different than saying \nI BELIEVE that God does not exist. I still maintain the position, even \nafter reading the FAQs, that strong atheism requires faith.\n\nBut first let me say the following.\nWe might have a language problem here - in regards to \"faith\" and\n\"existence\". I, as a Christian, maintain that God does not exist.\nTo exist means to have being in space and time. God does not HAVE\nbeing - God IS Being. Kierkegaard once said that God does not\nexist, He is eternal. With this said, I feel it's rather pointless\nto debate the so called \"existence\" of God - and that is not what\nI'm doing here. I believe that God is the source and ground of\nbeing. When you say that \"god does not exist\", I also accept this\nstatement - but we obviously mean two different things by it. However,\nin what follows I will use the phrase \"the existence of God\" in it's\n'usual sense' - and this is the sense that I think you are using it.\nI would like a clarification upon what you mean by \"the existence of\nGod\".\n \nWe also might differ upon what it means to have faith. Here is what\n\nfaith \n1a: allegiance to duty or a person: LOYALTY\nb (1): fidelity to one's promises\n (2): sincerity of intentions\n2a (1): belief and trust in and loyalty to God\n (2): belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion\nb (1): firm belief in something for which there is no proof\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n (2): complete trust\n3: something that is believed esp. with strong conviction; esp: a system \n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nof religious beliefs\nsyn see BELIEF\n\n\n\nOne can never prove that God does or does not exist. When you say\nthat you believe God does not exist, and that this is an opinion\n\"based upon observation\", I will have to ask \"what observtions are\nyou refering to?\" There are NO observations - pro or con - that\nare valid here in establishing a POSITIVE belief. All observations\ncan only point you in a direction - a direction that we might even\nbe predisposed to (by predisposed I mean, for example, people whoes \npartents \"believe in God\" also tend to). To actually draw a conclusion\nabout the \"existence\" or \"non-existence\" of God requires a leap - and\nyou have made this leap when you actively say \"I believe that God \ndoes/does not exist\". Personally, I think that both statements are\nmisguided. Arguing over the \"existence\" of God is precisely the wrong way\nto find Him (and yes, I use \"Him\" because a personal God is the only \nviable concept (IMO) - if a person wants to use \"She\" go ahead. Of course \nGod is neither He nor She - but we have no choice but to \nanthropomorphise. If you want me to explain myself further I'll be \nglad to.) \n\n\n\nAnd please, if someone does not agree with me - even if they violently \ndisagree - it's in no ones advantage to start name calling. If a person \nthinks I've misunderstood something in the FAQs, or if they they think \nI have not read them well enough, just point out to me the error of my \nways and I correct the situation. I'm interested in a polite and well \nthought out discussion.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n", "Brian Kendig first states:\n\n\nI ask:\n\n\nBrian Kendig states:\n\n\nMake up your mind. \n\n\nAnd we do not end perfect either. We are never perfect. Can you name\none person, young or old, past or present, that you deem perfect? \nGood luck.\n\n\nThen you lie to yourself. You do not know your shortcomings. I have clearly\nshown one of your shortcomings, if not two. That is, ignorance of the Bible\nand the arrogance you demonstrate butchering it without even knowing its \ncontents.\n\n\nBecause you have been too prideful to examine the record of him for yourself.\nAnd to demonstate your lack of support for your conclusion, I bet you do not\neven know what the word \"Christ\" means. Or which prophet used \"Christ\" to \ndescribe the \"Son of Man\". \n\n\nYes. I agree with that. So we must learn first. Read the Bible. Come\nup with our own interpretation. Evaluate what is being said\nand by whom. Check the history books as well. Compare someone else's\ninterpretation with your own. Then make a judgment. But I tell you the\ntruth, 99% of what is being said in the Bible needs interpretation as \nmuch as a coffee cup needs interpretation.\n\nAnd remember, the Bible isn't a Guru's Esoteric Guide to Metaphysics. \nIt doesn't take a theologian to understand what is being said. The \nBible is a bunch of testimonies from people like you and I addressed \nto people like you and I. These guys wrote down what they saw and heard. Is it \ntheir open diary--and they want to tell you something. And because they\nwant you to know something, they make it very clear what they want you to\nknow. They didn't encouch their ideas in esoteric rhetoric, but in simple\nstraight-forward language.\n\n\nYou have chosen the road that avoids the Bible. You have chosen the\nroad that avoids a confrontation with the living God because that\nroad doesn't look appealing to you. You rather build your own road. One\nthat goes far away from that confrontation. But be assured of this,\nyou will have to confront him one day willingly or unwillingly. \n\n\nI see what you mean. I hear what your saying. I am not degrading your\nlife. But I have heard the same irrational excuses for years. There is nothing \nnew in what you are saying. And by your own words, you are \"spouting off\" \ncontradictions. If contradictions give you meaning, then your life must\nbe sad.\n\n\nBingo. For God so loved the world, he GAVE his only begotton to son\nso that whososever belives in him will have ever lasting life. I look\nwhat God *did*. He has given his Son, even to his death, so that I can have \nhope in his resurrection and know that life isn't for nothing, but has\nglorious purpose.\n\n\nBecause you turn your eyes away from testimony and history. You choose to\nlie to yourself that he doesn't exist, for you ignore what has been said for \nthousands of years. You sound exactly, almost verbatim, like the Lazarus of \nJesus's story starting in Luke 16:19. And the conclusion of that story is a \nbleak one. Lazarus wound up in hell. The story ends like this:\n\n \"For if Lazarus doesn't even listen to Moses and the Prophets,\n he won't even believe if a man rose from the dead.\"\n\n\nArrogance at its best. The fact is, you are not rational. Several specific\ncases have already been cited. And again with this new statement, you show more irrationality with regards to heaven. Jesus does tell you something of what to expect\nin heaven. Jesus expects you to use your brain to believe in him. Jesus does\nnot expect you to placate either. Jesus wants you to willingly come to him, but not\nas his grovelling slave, but rather as his brother who will share in his\nglorious riches. Why do you not pick up the Bible and read it for yourself. \nYou maintain you have an open mind. See whether you are lying to yourself for\nyourself.\n\n\n\nI do understand what you said. But that's is not what I feel went amiss here.\n\nYou missed the point. Living a \"good life\" has no eternal consequences.\nOnce they close the amusement park of life, to you that is the end. To you, it \nis over. To you, therefore, your time spent in the amusement park is meaningless. \nIt has no eternal consequences to you nor to anyone left on earth. \n\nBut then you contradict yourself. From a previous post, you said doing evil things \nis bad. To you, it shouldn't matter if you do evil things or good things. It is\nall meaningless in the end anyway. So go rob a bank. Go tell someone\nyou dislike that he is a dirty rotten slime bag. What's restraining you?\nLife after all, has no eternal consequences and accountability is irrelevant.\n\n\nAt which time, you are truly not the master of yourself.\n\n\nSo you (and your holy book) say. By the same token, therefore, Santa\nClaus delivers toys every xmas. Don't you see? I have NO REASON to\nbelieve that what you say is true. Please give me some reason that I\ncan't similarly apply to Santa Claus.\n\nYou have EVERY reason to believe that what Jesus says and the witnesses\nof Jesus say are true. But you choose to be unreasonable and \"ignore\" the\nreasons. By definition, \"ignorance\". \n\nSanta Claus is said to live at the North Pole and have a squad of elves\nand flying reindeer. Ever see a flying reindeer? Has anyone in human\nhistory seen a flying reindeer? Has anyone seen a reindeer whose nose \nblinks red? \n\nOn the other hand, are people born in Bethlehem? Was Nebuchandezzar really\na king? Was Daniel really one of his court officials? Were David and Solomon\nreally kings of Israel and Judah? Was their really a king called Jehoachin?\nDid Sennecherib really attack Jerusalem 600 years before Christ? Did\nSennacherib really lose his battle--and badly? Was there really a \nCaiaphas who interrogated Jesus? Yes, yes, yes . . . history verifies\nit. It is NONFICTION.\n\nDo you have a problem discerning truth from fiction? Perhaps you\ncan't evaluate the context of Grimm's Fairy Tales apart from\nthat of the Scientific American. I suppose you treat both with equal\ntruthfulness or equal falsity. Is this what you are telling me? Or\nis it that just do want to read the Scientific American and find out\nthat it's not a fairy tale?\n\n\nGet real. Have you ever been to Zaire? Do you have to go there\nto be assured that there really is such a place? Given your \nirrationality, I take it you have never used a map in your life.\n", "With the Southern Baptist Convention convening this June to consider\nthe charges that Freemasonry is incompatible with christianity, I thought\nthe following quotes by Mr. James Holly, the Anti-Masonic Flag Carrier,\nwould amuse you all...\n\n The following passages are exact quotes from \"The Southern \nBaptist Convention and Freemasonry\" by James L. Holly, M.D., President\nof Mission and Ministry To Men, Inc., 550 N 10th St., Beaumont, TX \n77706. \n \n The inside cover of the book states: \"Mission & Ministry to Men, \nInc. hereby grants permission for the reproduction of part or all of \nthis booklet with two provisions: one, the material is not changed and\ntwo, the source is identified.\" I have followed these provisions. \n \n \"Freemasonry is one of the allies of the Devil\" Page iv. \n \n \"The issue here is not moderate or conservative, the issue is God\nand the Devil\" Page vi.\" \n \n \"It is worthwhile to remember that the formulators of public \nschool education in America were Freemasons\" Page 29. \n \n \"Jesus Christ never commanded toleration as a motive for His \ndisciples, and toleration is the antithesis of the Christian message.\"\nPage 30. \n \n \"The central dynamic of the Freemason drive for world unity \nthrough fraternity, liberty and equality is toleration. This is seen \nin the writings of the 'great' writers of Freemasonry\". Page 31. \n \n \"He [Jesus Christ] established the most sectarian of all possible \nfaiths.\" Page 37. \n \n \"For narrowness and sectarianism, there is no equal to the Lord \nJesus Christ\". Page 40. \n \n \"What seems so right in the interest of toleration and its \ncousins-liberty, equality and fraternity-is actually one of the \nsubtlest lies of the 'father of lies.'\" Page 40. \n \n \"The Southern Baptist Convention has many churches which were \nfounded in the Lodge and which have corner stones dedicated by the \nLodge. Each of these churches should hold public ceremonies of \nrepentance and of praying the blood and the Name of the Lord Jesus \nChrist over the church and renouncing the oaths taken at the \ndedication of the church and/or building.\" Page 53-54. \n ", "\n I've got a used one for sale. I used it in high school and just don't have \nthe occasion to get it out and play it anymore. Email me and we can work out \nsomething on it. I can't get email to you for some reason. David-- \n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\nDavid B. Snyder Logicon Technical Services Inc.\ndsnyder@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil Wright-Patterson Air Force Base\n513-255-5165 Dayton, Ohio USA\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\nIt is said that GOD doesn't subtract from ones' time on earth, those\nhours spent flying.\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\n1946 Cessna 140 N76234 \"The lady in waiting\" Owner/Operator\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\nOpinions expressed are my own and not those of Logicon or the USAF.", "\n\n\nYou have clearly demonstrated that you do not even know\nwhat my religion is in order to make that assumption.\n\n\nHow I can present any argument when you put your hands over your\neyes and devise new irrevelant excuses each time? The fact remains,\nyou want to argue about something that you do not know anything about.\nDo you not have to learn a topic first before you can reasonably debate\nthe topic? \n\nWhich brings us about to the start of this thread. You began\nperverting Bible verses, interpreting them without investigation.\nFor if you desired to investigate, you would have changed your\ntune immediately. Thus it is clear to me. You do not believe\nwhat I am saying because \"you don't want to\" check it out.\n\n\nThen you must have also ignored every other post I have written\nto you. This would seem to go along with your character.\n", "=>I don't necessarily agree with Pat Robertson. Every one will be placed before\n=>the judgement seat eventually and judged on what we have done or failed to do\n=>on this earth. God allows people to choose who and what they want to worship.\n=\n=I'm sorry, but He does not! Ever read the FIRST commandment?\n\nI have. Apparently you haven't. The first commandment doesn't appear to\nforbid worshipping other gods. Yahweh's got to be at the top of the totem\npole, though.\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nCarl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL", "A reply to a post by kilroy@gboro.rowan.edu (aka Nancy's Sweetheart): \n\n?Human brains are infested with sin, and they can only be trusted\n?in very limited circumstances.\n\nI would beg to differ with you here. The properly-formed conscience can\nbe trusted virtually ALL the time. I am not so sure, though, about something\nso materialistic as the human brain. Does that mass of tissue possess\nanything trustworthy? Your observation would probably be valid if we were\ndiscussing the \"mind\" of an animal, but the human being is only half animal,\nas it were; and half spiritual. \n\n?At the moment he stops speaking, and people start interpreting, the\n?possibility of error appears. Did he mean that literally or not? We do\n?not have any record that he elaborated on the words. Was he thinking of\n?Tran- or Con- substatiation? He didn't say. We interpret this passage\n?using our brains; we think and reason and draw conclusions. But we know\n?that our brains are not perfect: our thinking often leads us wrong. (This\n?is something that most of us have direct experience of. 8-)\n\nNow you have hit on the purpose of the Church. It is by necessity the\ninfallible interpreter of divine revelation. Without the Church, \nChristianity would be nothing more than a bunch of little divisive sects.\n \n?Unless you are infallible, there are very few things you can be certain\n?of. To the extent that doctrines rely on fallible human thinking, they\n?cannot be certain.\n\nThis argument of yours regarding the certainty of an observation or a\nconclusion is not necessarily substantiated by experience. It reminds me\nof the theoretical physicist who said that you can never be certain of\na measurment because the sensor interferes with the field you are trying\nto measure. Now, the experimental physicist will reply that although the\nmeasurement can never be made with absolute certainty, he is able to\ndetermine the certainty with which the measurement can be made, and this\nknowledge is often sufficient to render the measurement useful enough\nto allow evidence of the true condition of the field under observation.\nTherefore, although our minds are finite and susceptible to error, our\ncompetence in arriving at inductive insights gives confidence in our\nability to distinguish what is true from what is not true, even in areas\nnot subject to the experimental method. \n\n?Darren F Provine / kilroy@gboro.rowan.edu\n?\"If any substantial number of [ talk.religion.misc ] readers read some\n? Wittgenstein, 60% of the postings would disappear. (If they *understood*\n? some Wittgenstein, 98% would disappear. :-))\" -- Michael L Siemon\n\nThis quote seems a little arrogant, don't you think?\n \n-- \nboundary", "James Sledd asks:\n\n 1. What is the nature of eternal life?\n 2. How can we as mortals locked into space-time conceive of it?\n 2a. If the best we can do is metaphor/analogy, then what is the\n best metaphor?\n\nC S Lewis's essay THE WEIGHT OF GLORY deals with this question. I\nrecommend it enthusiastically. You might also read the chapter on\n\"Heaven\" in his book THE PROBLEM OF PAIN. He gives a fictional\ntreatment in his book THE GREAT DIVORCE. I have found all of these\nvery helpful.\n\nYou might also be helped by the treatment in Dante's DIVINE COMEDY.\nHeaven occupies the last third of the poem, but I cannot imagine\nreading it other than from the beginning. I urge you to use the\ntranslation by Dorothy L Sayers, available from Penguin Paperbacks.", "\nActually, the story goes that Lucifer refused to bow before MAN as \nGod commanded him to. Lucifer was devoted to God.\n\nOh yeah, there is nothing in Genesis that says the snake was anything\nmore than a snake (well, a talking one...had legs at the time, too).\n\nI don't think pointing out contradictions in STORIES is the best way\nto show the error in theology: if they think a supernatural entity\nkicked the first humans out of paradise because they bit into a\nfruit that gave them special powers...well, they might not respond\nwell to reason and logic. :^)", "\n\nActually I don't think there is any conflict if we really understand\nwhat these passages say. First, what is faith? If you study the \nmeaning of the Greek and Hebrew words so translated I think you will\ncome to the conclusion that the word means a *lot* more than mere \nbelief. Faith means both trust and action. If you do not put your \nbelief into action it simply cannot qualify as faith. I think this \nis what James means when he says that \"faith without works is dead\" \nand, \"I will show you my faith by my works.\" Remember James was \nwriting to \"the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad.\" This \nprobably means he was writing to those who would hear the gospel much \nlater and wouldn't understand the meaning of the original Greek.\n(Indeed I suspect James was writing to us, today, among others he\nintended to reach.) Paul, on the other hand wrote mostly to the\npeople of the Roman empire who generally understood the meaning of\nthe Greek.\n\nAnother key to why there is no conflict is to look at Paul's\nstatements in their context. I think you will find that when Paul\ncontrasts faith and works it is in the context of comparing the\ngospel with the Law, meaning the Law of Moses. This was the great\nburden of Paul's life. As the apostle to the Gentiles he would go\nconvert a bunch of people, then the \"Judizers\" would come along and\ntry to convince them that they also had to obey the Law of Moses (cf\nActs chapter 15). In this context Paul condemns the idea of being\nsaved by the works of the Law, saying that we are saved by the blood\nof Jesus and our faith in him. I believe that a better translation\nfor today would be that we are saved by *faithfulness*. I think\n\"faithfulness\" today has a meaning closer to what the original\nwriters intended.\n\n\nI think you misunderstand Romans. What Paul is really saying is\nthat God prefers a faithful Gentile who does not \"keep kosher\" to a\nkosher Jew who fails to stay faithful in the more important matters\nof following the Lord and having charity toward his fellows.\n\n\nIn the sense of faith described above, you cannot have real faith and \nbe lukewarm. If you know God but are lukewarm (unfaithful), you are \nworse off than the person who never heard of Him. Remember, Jesus in\nthe parable of the pearl of great price (Mat 13:45-46) and again in\nthe one on the treasure hidden in the field (Mat 13:44) indicates that\nthe price of the Kingdom of God is *all* we have.\n\n[I agree with you in general, including the fact that \"pistis\" has\nsome of the force of \"faithful\". However if you take that too far,\nyou can end up with something that Paul definitely would not have\nintended. Being faithful means following God in all things. To say\nthat we are saved by being faithful is very close to saying that we\nare saved by commiting no sins. I assume that's not what you meant.\n\nI have almost given up on finding a specific verbal formula that\ncompletely captures this. However I think Paul is describing what I'd\ncall a basic orientation, including aspects such as trust and\ncommitment. Jesus speaks of it as rebirth, which implies a basic\nchange. We may still do things that are sinful, and may fail to show\nthe new life in Christ in many situations where we should. But in any\nChristian there had better be the basic change in orientation that\nJesus calls being born again.", "\n\n[ ACT 5:40 - 41 ]\n\n...\n...\n\nThe basic problem with your argument is your total and complete reliance on\nthe biblical text. Luke's account is highly suspect (I would refer you to\nthe hermeneia commentary on Acts). Moreover Luke's account is written at\nleast 90 years after the fact. In the meantime everyone he mentions has died\nand attempts to find actual written sources behind the text have come up\nwith only the we section of the later portion of acts as firmly established.\nMoreover, Pauls account of some of the events in Acts (as recorded in \nGalatians) fail to establish the acts accounts. \n\nWhat we need, therefore, is a reliable text, critically appreciated, which\ndocuments the death of Christians for belief in the Resurrection. I would\nsuggest you look at some greek and roman historians. I think you will be\ndisapointed.", ": >Based on the amount of E-Mail from fellow Christians who have read the\n: >posts and told me I was wasting my time with Butler and Joslin, I told\n: >them I wasn't doing it for DB or DJ but for other Christians. They\n: >have told me that DB's and DJ's arguments won't convince most Bible\n: >studying Christians. So I have reevaluated my purpose here and it's\n: >also contributed to my decision.\n\n: So most Bible-studying Christians won't be convinced by my arguments? \n: And this is supposed to be a Good Thing, I presume?\n\nWhere does this \"Most Bible studying Christians think as Frank\ndoes\" come from. And what implied \"good\" are you doing for other\nChristians?\n\nAt least some of what you are teaching has been demonstrated as\nwrong. Has it ever occured to you that you may be doing more harm\nthan good to your fellow Christians?\n\nBTW, I used to think like Frank does. I went to a fundamentalist\nchurch for a while. I didn't start to really think about what\nthey were saying until I noticed a \"God's Science\" phamphlet\nthere. I read it and noticed that the authors of it knew virtually\nnothing about Science. I asked church members some questions about\n\"theories\" from the phamphlet and got only deceptive answers. I\nbegan to notice a very similar style of \"answers\" for theological\nquestions as well. The only conclusion I could reach was that\nthese peoples' beliefs about the Bible were about as valid as\ntheir beliefs in their God's Science phamphlet.\n\n: If there are still people out there who think that my purpose here\n: is to \"attack the Bible,\" (an accusation Frank once made) I would point\n: out that I have also criticized people who have posted \"bible\n: contradictions\" that turn out to be silly, out of context, or easily\n: (and legitimately) reconciled. I'm not attacking the Bible, but \n: intellectual dishonesty *about* the Bible, from either side.\n\nIf one of the primary purposes of Christians is to seek out truth,\nhow can people condemn you for doing this?\n", "I will instruct thee and teach thee\n\tin the way which thou shalt go:\n\tI will guide thee with mine eye.", "\nYes, as a philosophy weak atheism is worthless. This is true in\nexactly the same sense that as a philosophy Christians' disbelief in\nZeus is worthless. Atheists construct their personal philosophies\nfrom many different sources, building non-god-based ideas in the same\nway as Christians build non-Zeus-based ideas of thunderbolts.\nAtheists no more *base* their philosophy on atheism than Christians\nbase theirs on the nonexistence of Zeus.\n\nThe \"weak atheist\" position is logically extremely assailable -- any\nlogical demonstration of the existence of a god completely destroys it\nas soon as the demonstration is made in the presence of a given weak\natheist. Atheists in this newsgroup are barraged regularly with\nattempts to provide such a logical demonstration, and they all fail\nmiserably. In fact, most of the people around here who claim the\n\"strong (as opposed to mathematical) atheist\" position do so on this\nbasis: not only do we not believe in a god, but also all the arguments\npresented in favor of particular gods have to date proven unsound;\ntherefore, one can say that those gods as argued by those arguments do\nnot exist. This doesn't apply to such philosophers' gods as are\ndefined to be logically undemonstrable, but these are not the gods of\npopular religion, and the coherence of such claims is quite\nquestionable. ", "\nUnfortunately your phrasing is ambiguous. Re-writing more carefully, we have\n(at least) two possibilities. The first:\n\nThings called \"Mercedes\" are cars\nThat girl is called \"Mercedes\"\nTherefore that girl is a car\n\nThat is entirely valid as a piece of logical deduction. It is not sound,\nbecause the first statement is false. Similarly, I would hold that Jim's\nexample is valid but not sound.\n\nAnother possible interpretation of what you wrote is:\n\nThere exists at least one car called \"Mercedes\"\nThat girl is called \"Mercedes\"\nTherefore that girl is a car\n\n-- which isn't valid.\n", "\n\nThe reason for the existence of hell is justice. Fear is only an effect\nof the reality of hell.\n\n-- \nboundary, the catechist ", "\n You ask where we are. I would echo that question. I'm not trying to be\n contentious. But assuming that the Pope has universal jurisdiction\n and authority, what authority do you rely upon for your decisions?\n What prevents me from choosing ANY doctrine I like and saying that\n Papal disagreement is an error that will be resolved in time?\n This is especially true, since Councils of Bishops have basically\n stood by the Pope.\n\nThe ultimate question is the traditional theology of the Church. This\nis the *only* thing that it is possible to resist a Pope for: his\ndeparture from the traditional doctrine of the Church. If commands\nfrom *any* authority conflict with Tradition, the commands must be\ndisobeyed.\n\nMy own view on this is that this conflict could only happen in a major\nway. God would never allow a hair-splitting situation to develop; it\nwould be too complex for people to figure out. I don't view the\npresent situation in the Church as anything extremely complicated.\nRun through a list of what has happened in the last 30 years in the\nCatholic Church, and any impartial observer will be aghast.\n\n It appears that much of what lies at the heart of this matter is\n disagreements over what is tradition and Tradition, and also over\n authority and discipline. \n\nThe problems stem from a general widespread ignorance of the Catholic\nFaith, in my opinion. Most Catholics know about zilch about the\nCatholic Faith; this leaves them wide open for destruction by erring\nbishops. It's basically the Reformation part II.\n\nThere is not even a question in my mind that in some respects the\nshards of the Catholic Church are currently being trampled upon by the\nCatholic hierarchy. I could go on listing shocking things for an\nhour, probably.\n\nTake the situation in Campos, Brazil, for example. I'm reading a book\non what happened there after Vatican Council II. The bishop, Antonio\nde Castro-Mayer, never introduced all the changes that followed in the\nwake of Vatican II. He kept the traditional Mass, the same old\ncatechisms, etc. He made sure the people knew their faith, the\nCatholic theology of obedience, what Modernism was, etc. He\ninnoculated the people against what was coming.\n\nWell, one day the order came from Rome for his retirement. It came\nwhen the Pope was sick. Bishop de Castro-Mayer waited until the Pope\nrecovered, then inquired whether this command was what the Pope really\nwanted, or something that some Liberal had commanded in his absence.\nThe Pope confirmed the decision. So the good bishop retired.\n\nThe injustice that followed was completely incredible. A new bishop\nwas installed. He proceeded to expel most of bishop de Castro-Mayer's\nclergy from their churches, because they refused to celebrate the New\nMass. The new bishop would visit a parish, and celebrate a New Mass.\nThe people would promptly walk out of the church en masse. The bishop\nwas *enraged* by this. He usually resorted to enlisting the help of\nthe secular authorities to eject the priest from the church. The\npriests would just start building new churches; the people were\ncompletely behind them. The old parishes had the New Mass, as the\nbishop desired -- and virtually no parishioners.\n\nThe prime motivation for all this was completely illegal, according to\ncanon law. No priest can be penalized in any way for saying the\ntraditional Mass, because of legislation enacted by Pope Saint Pius V.\nNor is there any obligation to say the New Mass.\n\nDuring all this process, the people of Campos, not just private\nindividuals, but including civil authorities, were constantly sending\npetitions and letters to Rome to do something about the new Modernist\nbishop. NOTHING was ever done; no help ever arrived from Rome.\nEventually 37 priests were kicked out, and about 40,000 people.\n\n My question to the supporters of SSPX is this:\n\n\t Is there ANY way that your positions with respect to church reforms\n\t could change and be conformed to those of the Pope? (assuming that\n\t the Pope's position does not change and that the leaders of SSPX\n\t don't jointly make such choice.)\n\n If not, this appears to be claiming infallible teaching authority.\n If I adopt the view that \"I'm NOT wrong, I CAN'T be wrong, and\n there's NO WAY I'll change my mind, YOU must change yours\", that\n I've either left the Catholic Church or it has left me.\n\nIf the Pope defines certain things ex cathedra, that would be the end\nof the controversy. That process is all very well understood in\nCatholic theology, and anyone who doesn't go along with it is an\ninstant non-Catholic.\n\nThe problem here is that people do not appreciate what is going on in\nthe Catholic world. If they knew the Faith, and what our bishops are\ndoing, they would be shocked!\n\n We sould argue from now until the Second Coming about what the \"real\"\n traditional teaching of the Church is. If this were a simple matter\n East and West would not have been separated for over 900 years.\n\nThis isn't the case in the Catholic Church. There is a massive body\nof traditional teaching. The Popes of the last 150 years are\nespecially relevant. There is no question at all what the traditional\ndoctrine is.\n\n I thought that the teaching magisterieum of the church did not allow\n error in teachings regarding faith and morals even in the short term.`\n I may be wrong here, I'm not Roman Catholic. :-)\n\nThat's heresy, more or less. Although they have done a great job\nsince the Reformation, the last 30 years have seen so many errors\nspread that it's pitiful.\n\nInfallibility rests in the Pope, and in the Church as a whole. In the\nshort term, a Pope, or large sections of the Church can go astray. In\nfact, that's what usually happens during a major heresy: large\nsections of the Church go astray. (The Pope historically has been\nmuch more reliable.) Everything will always come back in the long\nrun.\n\n What would be the effect of a Pope making an ex cathedra statement\n regarding the SSPX situation? Would it be honored? If not, how\n do you get around the formal doctrine of infallibility?\n Again, I'm not trying to be contentions, I'm trying to understand.\n Since I'm Orthodox, I've got no real vested interest in the outcome,\n one way or the other.\n\nYes, it would be honored. Infallibility is infallibility. But what\nis he going to define? That the New Mass is a better expression of\nthe Catholic Faith than the old? That sex education in the Catholic\nschools is wonderful? That all religions are wonderful except for\nthat professed by the Popes prior to Vatican II?\n\n It does if the command was legitimate. SSPX does not view the\n Pope's commands as legitimate. Why? This is a VERY slippery slope.", "\nYou assume this because you believe in a designing creator,\nand you observe our ability to procreate...\n\n\n.... But then you observe our ability to modify fertility\nthrough intelligence & experiment, and draw no similar conclusions\nabout God designing us for scientific inquiry & the use of the\ntechnology that it produces. How is it that one ability is \"obviously\nfrom God\", and the other not?\n\n\nI want to know the truth, and hold the Truth as the most\nbasic of all ethical values, because correct moral judgement\nrelies on knowing the truth, not vice versa. Moralities that\nassert that assent to a belief is a moral choice, and not\ncompelled by evidence inevitably cut off the limb they sit upon.\nFalsification of evidence, conscious and unconscious, follows\ncorrupting both the intellect and the heart.\n\n\nIf there is a God, he has nothing to fear from truth.\nAs to imaginary gods and there followers: Be afraid. Be very\nafraid.", "\n\nFrom the word 'statim' (Latin, I think), meaning immediately.\n\n\n=========================", "YOU BLASHEPHEMERS!!! YOU WILL ALL GO TO HELL FOR NOT BELIEVING IN GOD!!!! BE\nPREPARED FOR YOUR ETERNAL DAMNATION!!!\n", "\nno its not.\n\nits due to the fact that there are two issues here: Religion and religion.\n\nreligion is personal belief system.\nReligion is a memetic virus.\n\npeople loudly proclaiming their beliefs are crossing the border from\nreligion -> Religion. people that want to \"save\" others are firmly\nentrenched in Religion (\"memoids\").\n\nrule #1 of not practicing Religion is to shut the fuck up, unless\nyou discuss it politely. this means that the motive behind the conversation\nis not only your self-gratifying wish to spread the word. \n\nreligion is something that ultimately comes from within a person, and\nreflects their value judgements. Religion is something that is\ncontracted from others and does not reflect the persons value judgements\n(other than perhaps \"i think i'll be brainwashed today\").\n\nReligion is a drug...\n\ni believe you can discuss religion. however, the post that started this\noff was not intented as discussion, it was more a proclamation of\nsomeones Religion.", "\nOnce again, it appears that the one-eyed man has appeared in the land of the sighted\nand for some strange resaon has appointed himself the ruler and supreme power.", "First, I thank collectively all people who have given good answers\nto my questions. In my follow-up to Jason Smith's posting, I will\naddress some issues that have caused misunderstanding:\n\n\n\n\nYes, to some degree. There was an excellent discussion in sci.skeptic\non the nature of scientific work two weeks ago, I hope it did not\nescape your notice. \n\nThe correct word is 'likely'. There is no way to be sure our models and\ntheories are absolutely correct. Theories are backed up by evidence,\nbut not proved - no theory can be 'true' in a mathematical sense.\n\nHowever, theories are not mere descriptions or rationalisations of\nphenomena. It is extremely important to test whether theories can\n_predict_ something new or not yet observed. All successful theories\nscience has come up with have passed this test, including the Big\nBang theory of cosmic evolution, the theory of natural selection etc.\nIt does not mean they _must_ be correct, but they are not mere\n'best fits' for the data. \n\n\n\nWell, yes, if you want to _believe_ in them. This is not what science\nrequires - take a good look at the theory and the evidence, see if\nthe theory has made any successful predictions, and use your reason.\nDisbelievers are not punished. \n\n\nThis is what puzzles me - why do we need to have faith in _anything_?\nMy fellow atheists would call me a weak atheist - someone who is\nunable to believe, ie, fails to entertain any belief in God. \n\nYes, I know that one can't believe without God's help; Luther makes\nthis quite clear in his letter to Erasmus. I'm afraid this does not\nchange my situation. \n\n\n\n\n(deletions)\n\n\n\nNo, it is not, although it does look like one. This is a true dichotomy,\neither something exists, or nothing exists. If nothing exists, nobody\nwould ask why. If something exists, it is possible to ask why, but\nactually no existing being could give an answer. \n\nImagine, for a moment, that the nobodies in non-existence could also\nask: \"Why nothing exists?\" This is equivalent to my counter-question,\n\"why nothing exists in nothingness\". \n\nNow, \"why anything exists\" is equivalent to \"why something exists in\nsomethingness\". _This_ is what I meant with my tautology, my apologies\nfor the poor wording in my previous post.\n\n\nI do indeed think there probably _is_ no reason for being, or existence,\nin general, for reasons I stated above. However, they will still\nleave open the question \"why this, and not that\", and this is where\ntheistic explanations come in.\n\nScience cannot give reasons for any _particular_ human being's existence.\n\n\nThis is a deep philosophical question - is determinism true, or not?\nAlso, is God deterministic or not? I tend to think this question has\nno meaning in His case. \n\nIf I am for a reason, I've yet failed to see what it would be. \nFrom our perspective, it looks like 'I' exist for truly random\nreasons. I just rolled two dice - why did I get 6 and 1? How can\nI believe there is any better reason for my existence?\n\n\nYes, I am satisfied with this reason, until I find something better.\nMy 15 years of Christianity were of no help in this respect, I have\nto admit, but I am patient.\n\n\n\nNo, it doesn't, but I think an existing God cannot know why He exists,\nfor an answer to this question is not knowable. Of course, this\nshould not be any obstacle to belief in His existence.\n\n\nIt is impossible to know unknowable things. However, the question \n\"why do I exist, in particular\" is _not_ an invalid question - this\nis not what I said. But from our perspective, it is impossible to\ntell, and I can't just believe in any given explanation instead of\nanother, especially since I found I was deluding myself. \n\n\nI think \"pre-existence\" is an oxymoron. There is no time 'outside' of\nthis spacetime (except in some other universe), and from that \nperspective, our universe never was. It exists only for those who\nare inside it. \n\n\nNo. The validity of the question has to be discussed separately; I think\nphilosophy is of great help here. What can be known, and what is not\nknowable?\n\n\nThis is a very good question. In trying to answer this, and numerous\nother questions that bothered me, I finally found nothing to base\nmy faith on. \n\nI think it would be honest if we all asked ourselves, \"why do I believe\"\nor \"why I don't believe\". \n\nPetri\n", "\nI would guess that it probably has something to do with the ease of which\nideas and thoughts are communicated on a college campus. In the real world\n(tm) it's easier for theists (well, people in general really) to lock\nthemselves into a little bubble where they only see and talk to those\npeople who are of the same opinion as they are. In college you are\nconstantly surrounded by and have to interact with people who have\ndifferent ideas about life, the universe, and everything. It is much much\nharder to build a bubble around yourself to keep everyone else's ideas from\nreaching you.\n\nSo, in a world where theists are forced to contend with and listen to\natheists and theists of other religions some are bound to have a change in\ntheir beliefs over four years. There is nowhere to run.... :-)\n", "\nActually, I've got an entire list of books written by various atheist\nauthors and I went to the largest bookstore in my area (Pittsburgh) and\ncouldn't find _any_ of them. What section of the bookstore do you find\nthese kinds of books in? Do you have to look in an \"alternative\" bookstore\nfor most of them? Any help would be appreciated (I can send you the list\nif you want).", "\n: >People who reject God don't want to be wth Him in heaven. We spend our \n: >lives choosing to be either for Him or against Him. God does not force \n: >Himself on us.\n\n: I must say that I am shocked. My impression has been that Jayne Kulikaskas\n: usually writes this much less offensive and ludicrous than this. I am not\n: saying that the offensiveness is intentional, but it is clear and it is\n: something for Christians to consider.\n\nJayne stands in pretty good company. C.S. Lewis wrote a whole book\npromoting the idea contained in her first sentence quoted above. It is\ncalled \"The Final Divorce\". Excellent book on the subject of Heaven and\nHell, highly recommended. It's an allegory of souls who are invited, indeed\nbeseeched to enter Heaven, but reject the offer because being with God in\nHeaven means giving up their false pride.\n", "09 Apr 93, Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik writes to All:\n\n >> \"We suspect that's because one party to the (environmental)\n >> dispute thinks the Earth is sanctified. It's clear that much\n >> of the environmentalist energy is derived from what has been\n >> called the Religious Left, a SECULAR, or even PAGAN fanaticism\n >> that now WORSHIPS such GODS as nature and gender with a\n >> reverence formerly accorded real religions.\" (EMPHASIS MINE).\n\n SHK> First of all, secular and pagan are not synonyms. Pagan, which is\n SHK> derived from the latin paganus, means \"of the country.\" It is, in\n SHK> fact, a cognate with the Italian paisano, which means peasant.\n SHK> Paganism, among other things, includes a reverence for the planet and\n SHK> all life on the planet -- stemming from the belief that all life is\n SHK> interconnected. So, rather than be something secular, it is something\n SHK> very sacred.\n\nI would go further, and say that much of the damage to the environment\nhas been caused by the secular worldview, or by the humanist\nworldview, and especially by the secular humanist worldview.\n\nThis is not to say that ALL secular humanists are necessarily avid\ndestroyers of the environment, and I am sure that there are many who\nare concerned about the environment. But at the time of the\nRenaissance and Ref ormation in Western Europe man became the centre,\nor the focus of culture (hence \"humanism\"). This consciousness was\nalso secular, in the sense that it was concerned primarily with the\npresent age, r ather than the age to come. Capitalism arose at the\nsame time, and the power of economics became central in philosophy.\nThis doesn't mean that economics did not exist before, simply that it\nbegan to dominate the conscious cultural values of Western European\nsociety and its offshoots. This cultural shift was, in its later\nstages, accompanied by industrial revolutions and the values that\njustified\n them.\n\nThere was a fundamental cultural shift in the meaning of \"economics\" -\nfrom the Christian view of man as the economos, the steward, of\ncreation to the secular idea of man as the slave of economic forces\nand powers. There were denominational differences among the new\nworshippers of Mammon. For some the name of the deity was \"the free\nrein of the market mechanism\", while for others it was \"the\ndialectical forces of history\". But in both the capitalist West and\nthe socialist East the environment was sacrificed on the altar of\nMammon. The situation was mitigated in the West because thos e who\nwere concerned about the damage to the environment had more freedom to\noppose what was happening and state their case.\n\nSteve", "Were the early Christians weird? Yes! So were their non-Christian\ncontemporaries (the more familiar you are with late Republican Rome\nor the Pricipate, the weirder those people will seem -- forget the\ncreative filtering done by Renaissance and Eighteenth Century hero\nworship.) So are modern non-Christians. And Christians.\n\nYou are pretty weird, yourself, with your rather acid dismissal of\nLuther and of Protestantism -- and in apparently buying into a\nsimplistic propaganda model about Catholicism *not* being faddish. \nSure, it's so large that global fads take longer cycles than they\ndo in smaller denominations (and local ones are not usually visible\nunless you do a lot of traveling to exotic lands :-)). May I recom-\nmend, as a salutary antidote to this nonsense Philippe Aries' book\n_The Hour of our Death_, a longitudinal study of death customs in \nWestern [specifically Catholic] Christendom?\n\nAnd it won't help to escape into the obscurity of the first Christian\ncentury. Paul was pretty weird, too; as were Peter and the others in\nthe (apparently quite weird) circle around Jesus.\n\nWhat I think you might find helpful is a bit more charity -- try to\nunderstand these weirdos and nutcases with the same respect and love\nyou would expect others to show YOUR notions. We *are* commanded to\nlove one another, after all. And Brown's book is, in fact, a heroic\nattempt to SEE the groupings he talks about as motivated in love and\nthe gospel and their social contexts. (If anything, Brown is *too*\nheroic here -- he manages to overstrain himself at times :-))\n\nI don't suggest that we *follow* any of these old cult paths -- and\nit raises hard questions from the skeptic inside me that so much of\nearly Christianity *was* like the weird (Christian and non-Christian)\ncults we see today. To that extent, I think you raise a serious\nproblem (and perhaps your phrasing is implicitly self-deprecatory\nand ironic.)\n\nBut the first principle for *answering* these questions is respect and\nlove for those we do not understand. And it helps to *work* at under-\nstanding (as long as we do not get overwhelmed by revulsion and begin\nto withdraw our respect for them as people.) I would advise, in other\nwords, MORE historical reading (Brown's other books are also good, most\nespecially his bio. of Augustine; also try Robin Lane Fox's _Christians\nand Pagans_, maybe the Paul Veyne ed. _History of Private Life_, some\nof Foucault's books on sexuality in the ancient world ...)\n\nHumanity *is* weird -- we have known ONE sane person, and we killed Him.\nFortunately for us, this has proved a Comedy rather than a Tragedy.\n\nEaster, 1993.\n\n(yes; this is a tad early -- our Vigil service here has been moved forward\nbecause so many churches in the area have taken to doing their own Vigils,\nand the seminarians must therefore worship-and-run if they are to do it\nhere and there as well. Think of this as an Anglican fad. :-))", "agencies \nyour \ndictionary \n\nI don't recall saying Baptists do any of that. Though I suppose some do. And \nnone of them are listed in the dictionary as characteristics of a cult. My \nmother stockpiled Campbells soup when it was on sale. \n\n\nYou are an intolerent, foul-mouthed human. You sound like you are ready to \njoin the KKK or neo-nazis, with a narrow mind like yours.\n\n\nFar from it, I defend the rights of anyone to be different under our \nconstitution, which was formed in part to protect religious cults which had \nbeen persecuted in England before migrating here to be free. You are the one \nendangering our constitution.\n\n\nJim\n--\njmd@handheld.com", "[\">\"= Mark, \">>\"= mp]\n\n\n\n I am sorry you find these charges amusing, Mark. I understand your\nfrustration though--it can be kind of scary to find your assumptions\nchallenged. Some of the specific cultural interference to which I refer\nincludes linguistic manipulation, for instance, their Tzotzil-Spanish\ndictionary removed both Spanish and Tzotzil words for concepts which are\nthreatening to the ruling ideology, e.g., class, conquer, exploitation,\nrepression, revolution, and described words which can express\nideological concepts in examples like \"Boss--the boss is good. He treats\nus well and pays us a good wage.\" As some of my students would say,\n\"NOT!\" \n Your tone implies that you are unlikely to believe me--indeed, why\nshould you? If you are interested enough to do some further research\nthough, and you sound as if you are, here are some references for you.\n \nStoll, David. _Fishers of Men or Founders of Empire? The Wycliffe Bible\nTranslators in Latin America_.\n_Sectas y Religiosidad en America Latina_.\n_Los Angeles Times_, Dec. 11. 1977.\n_Latin America Press_, May 19, 1983.\n_Washington Times_, June 22, 1984.\n\n Happy hunting.", "\nI always thought that the Pope was a bear.\n\nYou know, because of that little saying:\n\nDoes a bear shit in the woods?\nIs the Pope Catholic?", "In the discussion as to why Jesus spoke aloud the \"Lazarus, come out\",\nI'm surprised that no one has noticed the verse immediately preceeding.\n\nJn 12:41 \"Father, I thank you for listening to me, though I knew that\nyou always listen to me. But I have said this for the sake of the\npeople that are standing around me that they may believe that you have\nmade my your messenger.\" (Goodspeed translation)\n\nMy guess is that the \"Lazarus, come out!\" was also for the sake of the\ncrowd.", "\n\nBrian K., I am pleased with your honesty. And to be honest as well, I\nbelieve you have not asked my god to come to you. Why do I say this?\nBecause by the things you write on the net, and the manner with which\nyou write them, you show me that you made up your own god and are\nattempting to pass him off as the real thing. I got news for you.\nYours doesn't at all sound like mine. Your god doesn't come to you\nbecause your god doesn't exist.\n\n\nI am sorry Brian, but when I read your postings, I do not see an open mind.\nWhat I do see is misunderstanding, lack of knowledge, arrogance and mockery.\n\n\nBe true to yourself then. Have an open mind. And so end the mockery. Gain \nknowledge of the real God. Put your presumptions aside. Read the\nBible and know that there is, truly is, a reason for everything and\nthere exists a God that has so much love for you that the depth of it goes beyond\nour shallow worldly experience. A person who commits himself \nto seeking God, will find God. Jesus stands at your door and knocks. But a\nperson who half-heartedly opens the Bible, or opens it with purpose to find \nsomething to mock, will find, learn and see nothing. The only thing one\nwill gain with that attitude is folly.\n\nBe careful to not jump the gun, for at first glance, there are many passages\nin the Bible that will seem bizarre and absurd. Be assured that even\nthough they seem alien at first, be confident that they are not.\nBe assured that beyond your present comprehension, there lies such\ndeep reasons that once you see them, you will indeed be satisfied. \nI will personally guarantee that one. As Jesus put it, \"You will never\nbe thirsty again. Your cup will even flow over.\"\n\n\nFrom King Solomon (970 B.C. to 930 B.C.):\n\n \"It is the glory of God to conceal a matter;\n to search out a matter is the glory of kings.\"\n\n\nJesus says in John 6:44 & 55:\n\n \"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.\"\n\n\nAnd in John 3:16:\n\n \"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,\n that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal\n life.\"\n\n\nYou are included in \"whosoever\". And I also pray that the Father is\ndrawing you, which it seems He is doing else you wouldn't be posting\nto talk.religion.misc. Remember Brian, you could be a St. Paul in the\nmaking. Paul not only mocked Christians as you do, but also had pleasure\nstoning them. Yet God showed him mercy, saved him, and Paul became\non of the most celebrated men in the history of God's church.\n\nYou see Brian, I myself better be careful and not judge you, because\nyou could indeed be the next Paul. For with the fervor that you attack\nChristians, one day you might find yourself one, and like Paul,\nproclaim the good news of Jesus with that very same fervor or more.\n\nOr you could be the next Peter. What Jesus said to Peter, Jesus would \nprobably say to you: \"Satan would surely like to have you.\" Why so?\nBecause Peter was hard-headed, cynical and demonstrated great\nmoments of stupidity, but once Peter committed himself to a task\nhe did with full heart. Peter was the only apostle to have the\nfaith to walk on water as Jesus did.\n\nYou asked \"Why not believe in Zeus?\" Zeus didn't offer eternal life.\nYou got nothing to gain by believing in Zeus.\n", "-*----\n\nThe two commandments *are* rules; they are merely rules that are\nso vague that they are practically devoid of meaning. Michael\nSiemon acknowledges this every time he writes that the resolution\nof an argument over them turns on secular and cultural\nassumptions that are independent of these rules.\n \n\nThe commandment to love your neighbor as yourself can be viewed,\nin part, as reminding man that he is not God and cannot act as if\nhe has \"ultimate responsibility.\" Indeed, many traditions present\nan interpretation where believers are supposed to interpret\nloving one's neighbor as following various other rules, and\nrelying on their god to make things come out right, precisely\nbecause it would be wrong for man to assume such \"ultimate\nresponsibility.\" Once again, we are confronted with good sounding\ngoo that means whatever the reader wants it to mean. \n\n\nAnd who is to say that this interpretation is \"twisted\"? There\nare many passages in the Bible that in their most straightforward\nreading show the Christian god behaving in just this way.\nMichael cannot refer to \"base\" claims or base commandments to\nshow that such readings are \"twisted,\" because this divergence in\nunderstanding occurs even in trying to interpret the \"base\"\nclaims and commandments. In addressing conservative Christians,\nMichael will necessarily draw upon secular and cultural notions\nthat these conservative Christians will reject. \n\n\nBut these base commandments are too vague to serve as \"a\nprinciple for the CRITIQUE of ethical systems.\" The meaning of\nthese base commandments for any believer derives from the secular\nand cultural notions that the believer brings to them, from how\nthe believer mixes their demands with straightforward readings of\nother Biblical passages, from a particular sectarian tradition,\nor from some combination of these things. These commandments\nlack sufficient substance in themself to serve as a basis for\ncriticizing ethical systems. What meaning they have comes from\nthe ethical system the believer brings to these commandments. \n\n\nJesus explicitly states that this summarizes Jewish law, which\nwould seem to bring in all of it if we properly understand what\nit means to love God and love our neighbors. There are *many*\nparables and teachings the gospels attribute to Jesus that are\nstraightforwardly read as ethical commandments. The Pauline\nepistles are similarly full. If it is not clear that these all\ncome together in a sensible understanding of ethical behavior,\nthe problem is *not* a lack of raw material. \n\n-*----\n\nNo, Michael, the conservative Christians also take the gospel \nseriously. What differentiates you is the way you interpret the\ngospel.\n\n\nIn a sense, the wide variety of interpretations does tell us\nsomething about Christianity. It tells us that the New Testament\nauthors left a sufficiently vague hodge-podge that it can serve\nas the source text for many, vastly different beliefs about the\nnature of the Christian god and about what men should and\nshouldn't do. \n\nThe irony here is that there is *nothing* in Christianity per\nse that Michael can use to support the cause of lesbians and\ngays. *Every* Christian principle he turns to this cause is\neffective only through the extra-Christian principles through\nwhich Michael interprets his religion, and the homophobes apply\nthe *same* Christian principles, with equal justification, to\ntheir cause. In short, it is the extra-Christian principles that\nmake Michael's Christianity beneficial, and I suspect they would\nbe as beneficial, perhaps moreso, without being filtered by\nChristian interpretation. \n\nMichael paints a picture of \"standard American atheism\" as the\nrejection of the evil in many conservative Christian\ninterpretations of the Bible. But I think it is even more\ndamaging to Christianity to note that the New Testament presents\nsuch a vague hodge-podge of notions about the nature of God and\nthe nature of the good (except, of course, when it is ordered by\nan interpretation that relies on extraneous principles). Here, I\nthink we should apply a Christian parable, where a cold drink can\nhave its value and a hot drink can have its value, but the\nlukewarm we should spit out. ", "[...etc...]\n\n\nI am becoming increasingly convinced that most of us take Paul's illustration\nabout one body / many parts far too narrowly. It is easy to say that the one\nbody represents a particular sect of Christianity (generally our own), and\nthe parts are clearly the various offices of ministry. There is a place for\nthat. But having met people who are walking closeely with God in a wide\nvariety of doctine - Catholic, Protestant, liberal, conservative, Orthodox,\netc. - I am willing to encompass a wide spectrum of views within the\ncontext of the 'body of Christ.' And I am equally sure that one day, after\nwe shug off this mortal coil, when we no longer see through a glass darkly\nbut see clearly, face to face, we will all be ashamed at some of the things\nwe held as truth. We ought all fellowship, worship, and serve where we are\ncalled, and understand that where we are called may not be where everyone\nelse is called.\n\nOne of the fathers of the reformation (help me out - can't recall the name)\nput it quite succiently:\n\n\tIn essentials, unity.\n\tIn nonessentials, liberty.\n\tIn all things, charity.\n\nWhile I agree with Lewis (Mere Christianity) that calling oneself a Christian\nimplies some basic, fundamental standards of belief if the word is to mean\nanything at all, I think most of us define the bounds of essentials a bit\ntoo broadly, deny the place for liberty in questionable issues near those\nbounds, and ignore the requirements of charity all together. \n\nMe? I attend a Vineyard church, speak in tongues, am effectively an\ninerrantist, though I'll grant some inaccuracy in translation, am moderately\npre-mill, and evangelical. But, I'm not ready to damn those who use icons,\nsay mass in latin, uphold the Virgin Mary (though I really don't believe\nthat she was sinless), vote on Church membership, or insist on baptism for\nsalvation. Of course, I think my doctine is pretty close to the truth -\nwhy would I follow it if I believed something else was closer to the truth?\nBut my understanding of the reality of a walk with Christ is continually\nevolving as I spend more and more time walking with Him, studying His word,\nand fellowshiping with others in the (often extended) family. \n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nI read, much of the night, and go south in the winter. \n --T.S. Eliot, The Waste Land \n..............................................................................\ns.w. marlatt, <>< & *(:-) Prov. 25.2\nUniversity of Colorado: marlatt@spot.Colorado.edu 492-3939\nNational Center for Atmospheric Research: marlatt@neit.cgd.ucar.edu 497-1669", "\nIt should be noted that belief in God is in itself no more a behavoral\nimperative than lack of belief. It is religion which causes the harm,\nnot the belief in God. ", "\nA question for you - can you give me the name of an organization or a\nphilosophy or a political movement, etc., which has never had anything\nevil done in its name? You're missing a central teaching of Christianity -\nman is inherently sinful. We are saved through faith by grace. Knowing\nthat, believing that, does not make us without sin. Furthermore, not all\nwho consider themselves \"christians\" are (even those who manage to head\ntheir own \"churches\"). \"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will\nenter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who\nis in heaven.\" - Matt. 7:21.\n\n\nAgain, what historical documents do you trust? Do you think Hannibal\ncrossed the Alps? How do you know? How do you know for sure? What\nhistorical documents have stood the scrutiny and the attempts to dis-\ncredit it as well as the Bible has?\n\n\nWell, it's really a shame you feel this way. No one can browbeat you\ninto believing, and those who try will probably only succeed in driving\nyou further away. You need to ask yourself some difficult questions:\n1) is there an afterlife, and if so, does man require salvation to attain\nit. If the answer is yes, the next question is 2) how does man attain this\nsalvation - can he do it on his own as the eastern religions and certain\nmodern offshoots like the \"new age movement\" teach or does he require God's\nhelp? 3) If the latter, in what form does - indeed, in what form can such\nhelp come? Needless to say, this discussion could take a lifetime, and for\nsome people it did comprise their life's writings, so I am hardly in a\nposition to offer the answers here - merely pointers to what to ask. Few,\nof us manage to have an unshaken faith our entire lives (certainly not me).\nThe spritual life is a difficult journey (if you've never read \"A Pilgrim's\nProgress,\" I highly recommend this greatest allegory of the english language).\n\n\nNow I see by your close that one possible source of trouble for you may be a\nconflict between your politcal beliefs and your religious upbringing. You\nwrote that \"I (in my own faith) accept and live my life by many if not most\nof the teachings of christ\". Well, Christ referred to God as \"My Father\",\nnot \"My Mother\", and while the \"maleness\" of God is not the same as the\nmaleness of those of us humans who possess a Y chromosome, it does not\nhonor God to refer to Him as female purely to be trendy, non-discriminatory,\nor politically correct. This in no way disparages women (nor is it my intent\nto do so by my use of the male pronoun to refer to both men and women - \nenglish just does not have a decent neuter set of pronouns). After all, God\nchose a woman as his only human partner in bringing Christ into the human\npopulation.\n\nWell, I'm not about to launch into a detailed discussion of\nthe role of women in Christianity at 1am with only 6 hours of sleep in the\nlast 63, and for that reason I also apologize for any shortcomings in this\narticle. I just happened across yours and felt moved to reply. I hope I\nmay have given you, and anyone else who finds himself in a similar frame of\nmind, something to contemplate.", " \n\nDoes anybody have Bobby's post in which he said something like \"I don't\nknow why there are more men than women in islamic countries. Maybe it's\natheists killing the female children\"? It's my personal favorite!\n", "\n Actually, my atheism is based on ignorance. Ignorance of the\n existence of any god. Don't fall into the \"atheists don't believe\n because of their pride\" mistake.\n\n\n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ \n\nBob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM \n\nThey said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,\nand sank Manhattan out at sea.", "\nYes, one does. I examined a critique of the Book of Romans by\nI think, Benjamin Franklin once, a Deist. I found it amazing that\nBenjamin Franklin missed the whole boat. I also have the writings\non Thomas Jefferson sitting on my shelf, and it is amazing how\nmuch he missed. I have studied Plato's Theory of Forms and \nAristotelian Hylomorphesism. What a pile of junk. Jesus\nmakes Plato and Aristotle look like kindergardeners. Psychology,\nthe id, ego, superego by Freud? Elements of truth, but Jesus\nexplained it far better and gave reasons.\n\nThomas Paine, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson are mere men. They\ncan screw up the Bible just as well as any man. I do not put these\nmen on a pedestal. And if I remember T.J.'s autobiography correctly,\nhe thought Thomas Paine was the most unread man he ever met.\n\nHere's some more circular reasoning to you. Paul says to the Corinthians\nthat \"that the gospel will be foolishness to the world, because it is \nspiritually discerned.\" And so, people without the spirit of God haven't a\nclue to what the Bible is saying. From your point of view, that's\nincredibly circular and convenient. To me, it is mysteriously and supernaturally\nbizarre. I can see it, but you can't. This is not arrogance on\nmy part. Trust me. It is as bizarre to you as it is to me. But nonetheless,\nit is a truth, explainable or not.\n\nAre any of you color blind to red and green? I am. Remember those\ndot tests they do at the optomologist's? They put pictures in front\nof you and you are supposed to identify the pattern in the dots? If\nyour eyes are perfectly normal, you can see letters or numerals\nembedded in the dots. They are a slightly different color and stand\nout from the background. But if you are color blind to red and green,\nyou will not see anything but gray-shaded dots. That is how a dot\ntest appears to me. I do not see a pattern at all.\n\nA normal seeing person will see the patterns. And to him, I seem like a\ntotal anomaly. To him, I appear as if I am missing the universe or something.\nIt is hard for him to understand why I can't see anything\nthat to him is as plain as day.\n\nThat it what it is like with the Bible, the Word of God, to the believer.\nThe believer can see the meaning in the words. I can see how the patterns\nfit together. There is such depth. Such consistency. But then, on the\nother hand, I notice the non-believer. He doesn't see it. He thinks\nI am weird because he thinks I am seeing things. I look at him, and\nsay, \"No, you are weird. You do not see.\" Then it is time for a sanity\ncheck. I go to another Christian and say, \"Do you see this.\" And\nthey go, \"Yes. It is an \"X\"\". And I say, \"Thank God, I see the \"X\"\ntoo.\"\n\nIt is truly the strangest thing. It adds a little extra dimension to\nthe phrase, \n\n \"He will make the blind see, and the deaf hear.\"\n", "\n: For all the problems technology has caused, your types have made\n: things even worse. Must we be reminded of the Inquisition, Operation\n: Rescue, the Ku Klux Klan, Posse Comitatus, the 700 Club, David Duke, Salem\n: Witch Trials, the Crusades, gay bashings, etc.\n: PLUS virtually each and every single war, regardless of the level of\n: technology, has had theistic organizations cheering on the carnage\n: (chaplains, etc.), and claiming that god was in favor of the whole ordeal. \n: Don't forget to pray for our troops!\n: \n\nThis is really tedious. Every bad thing that's ever happened is\nbecause the malefactors were under the influence of religion - does\nanyone -really- believe that. I've seen it so often it must be a\npretty general opinion in a.a, but I want to believe that atheists are\nreally not THAT dishonest. Please, stick to the facts and, having\naccomplished that, interpret them correctly.", "\n\n\nI guess there are at least some people who are not able to support\nthis claim. There are still a lot of languages without the Bible, or a\npart of the Bible. There are still many languages which we are not\nable to write, simply because the written version of the language has\nnot yet been defined!\n\nI guess this is one of the main goals for Wycliffe Bible Translators:\nTo define rules and a grammar for writing the 'rest' of the languages\nof this world. I do not see that any of them will have any reason to\nbecome unemployed during the foreseeable future. (Provided they get\ntheir neccessary support!) And still they are one of the 3 largest\nmissionary organizations of the world.\n\nBjorn", "\n\nBecause most of the children were with their parent(s). Do you understand\nthat concept? Here's a bunch of people who believe in their minds that\nthe forces of Satanic evil are outside and you expect them to hand over\ntheir own children? Were you born that stupid or does it take a lot\nof effort?\n", "I'd like to share my thoughts on this topic of \"arrogance of\nChristians\" and look forward to any responses. In my\nencounters with Christians, I find myself dismayed by their\nbelief that their faith is total truth. According to them,\ntheir beliefs come from the Bible and the bible is the word of\nGod and God is truth - thus they know the truth. This stance\nmakes it difficult to discuss other faiths with them and my own\nhesitations about Christianity because they see no other way.\nTheir way is the 'truth.'\n\nBut I see their faith arising from a willful choice to believe\na particular way. That choice is part faith and part reason,\nbut it seems to me a choice.\n\nMy discussions with some Christians remind me of schoolyard\ndiscussions when I was in grade school:\n\nA kid would say, \"All policemen are jerks!\" I'd ask, \"How do\nyou know?\" \"Because my daddy told me so!\" \"How do you know\nyou're daddy is right?\" \"He says he's always right!\"\n\nWell the argument usually stops right there. In the end,\naren't we all just kids, groping for the truth? If so, do we have\nthe authority to declare all other beliefs besides our own as\nfalse?\n\n-------------\n\nThis is only my third time browsing through this newsgroup. I\napologize if I'm covering tired old ground. Some of the\ndiscussions on this topic have piqued my interest and I welcome\nany comments.\n\n-- \n\n[I'm sort of mystified about how a Christian might respond to this. I\ncan understand criticisms of Christianity that say there's not enough\nevidence to believe it, or that there's just as good evidence for\nother religions. I don't agree, but clearly there are plenty of\nintelligent people who don't find the evidence convincing. But that\ndoesn't seem to be your point. Rather, you seem upset that people who\nbelieve Christianity is true also believe that things which contradict\nit are false.\n\nThis suggests a model of spiritual things that's rather different than\nthe Christian one. It sounds more like an existentialist view, where\npeople choose what value to follow, but there's no actual independent\nspiritual reality, and so no way to say that a specific choice is in\nsome unique sense right. This sort of model -- with modifications of\none sort or another -- may be appropriate for some religions. But\nChristianity is in its essense a \"historical\" religion. That is, it's\nbased on the concept that there are actual spiritual entities out\nthere, that one of them has intervened in history in specific ways,\nand that we see evidence of that in history. In the \"mundane\" world,\nwe are not free to choose how things work. When we drop something, it\nfalls (aside from well-defined situations where it doesn't). The\nChristian concept is that spiritual matters, there is also an actual\nexternal reality. I hope we're all honest enough not to claim that we\nhave perfect understanding. But while we may not think we know\neverything, we are confident that we know some things. And that\nimplies that we think things that contradict them are false. I don't\nsee how else we could proceed.\n\nThis needn't result in arrogance. I'm certainly interested in talking\nwith people of other religions. They may have things to teach me, and\neven if they don't, I respect them as fellow human beings. But it's\ngot to be possible to respect people and also think that on some\nmatters they are wrong. Maybe even disasterously wrong.", "Actually if Mr X had something to gain by his claims his\naccount of the events would nmot be the most respected. Case\nand point, the resurrection. By claiming that the resurrection\nactually happened the early preachers were able to convert many\nto Christianity. However, if you read Mathew 27:38 (?) and the\ncase for the resurrected saints who walked around Jerusalem and\nappeared to \"many People\" you would realize that other\nhistorians (Josephus for one) would have reported on it all if\nit happened. The fact that the Bible speaks of events of such\ngreat magnitude that they would have been noticed taken with\nthe fact that they are not reported on by historians could only\nmean that the bible contains many made up stories.\n", "Someone writing anonymously asks:\n\n\nI *did* become a Christian without having been indoctrinated by my parents, and\nhaving studied Buddhism fairly carefully and other religions to a lesser\ndegree. I made a decision to accept the truth-claims of Christianity after\nhaving given it a lot of thought. (I have to point out that the process was not\npurely a cold, rational one: there was a powerful experiential element as well.\nAlso, my Calvinist should rest assured that I don't lay any of the\nresponsibility for the outcome [my conversion] on anyone but God.)\n\nIt took me years and years for this all to happen, because I had many of the\nobjections that this poster puts forward. I grew up in the shadow of [generic\nauthoritarian conservative denomination], and I *knew* that that wasn't a way\nof life that I could adopt. But I gradually learned not to tar all of\nChristianity with the same brush, and realized quite suddenly one cold winter\nnight that I accepted what I had heretofore rejected. I am quite certain that\nI was not \"brain-washed\".", "I wonder how many atheists out there care to speculate on the face of the world\nif atheists were the majority rather than the minority group of the population. \nIt is rather a ridiculous question in some ways, I know, but my newsreader is\ndown so I am not getting any new postings for a bit, so I figure I might as\nwell post something new myself.\n\nAlso, how many atheists out there would actually take the stance and accor a\nhigher value to their way of thinking over the theistic way of thinking. The\ntypical selfish argument would be that both lines of thinking evolved from the\nsame inherent motivation, so one is not, intrinsically, different from the\nother, qualitatively. But then again a measuring stick must be drawn\nsomewhere, and if we cannot assign value to a system of beliefs at its core,\nthan the only other alternative is to apply it to its periphery; ie, how it\nexpresses its own selfishness.\n\nIdle thoughts...\n\n\nAdam", "\nWhat is wrong with \"the Spirit talking to Himself.\" Jesus intercedes\nfor us, and Romans 8:26-27 tell of how the Spirit intercedes for\nus before God. That is no theological problem. Tounges as a prayer\nlanguage finds support in I Corinthians 14:14-18.\n\n\n\nIts true that this could be (and has been) used as a rug to sweep\nany difficulties under. But it is a valid point. Paul does mention\nangelic tounges in the verse. \n\n\n\nIf the languages we sepak are the result of Babel, then it stands to\nreason that angels would speak a different language from us. You do \nhave a valid point about multiple angelic languages. But angelic\nbeings maybe of different species so to speak. maybe different species\ncommunicate differently. \n\n\nI have heard an eyewitness account, myself. Such things are hard to prove.\nThey don't lend themselves to a laboratory thing very well. I don';t\nknow if it is a very holy thing to take gifts into a laboratory anyway.\n\n\nThat's an unprovable statement. How can you prove if somethings been proved?\nThere is no way to know that you've seen all the evidence. Once I \nsaw an orthodontists records complete with photographs showing how one of\nhis patients severe underbite was cured by constant prayer. \n\nJohn G. Lakes once prayed for someone and saw them healed in a laboratory,\naccording to \"Adventures in God.\" Its an interesting book.", "\n\nI won't even recommend books from my congregation. What you ask sounds\nattractive but it is dangerous. As a new Christian you don't want to be\ncontaminated with other people's interpretation. Steep your self in\nscripture, and discuss with other christians. Read if your must but\nremember that what other people write is their interpretation. God has\npromised to give you light, so ask for it.\n\n\n\nDon't wait too long before attaching yourself to church. Just remember to\nalways compare what they teach you with scripture like the Bereans did.", "\n\nEven if there was no independent proof that Luke's account was\nvalid, I find it strange that you would take the negation of it as\ntruth without any direct historical evidence (at least that you've\nmentioned) to back it up. The assertion was made, unequivocally\nthat no Christian ever sufferred for their faith by believing in\nthe Resurrection. Luke's account suggests otherwise, and in the\nabsence of direct eyewitnesses who can claim that Luke is mistaken,\nthen I suggest that this unequivocal assertion is suspect.\n\n\n\n-- \nJohn G. Ata - Technical Consultant | Internet: ata@hfsi.com\nHFS, Inc.\t\t VA20 | UUCP: uunet!hfsi!ata\n7900 Westpark Drive\t MS:601\t | Voice:\t(703) 827-6810\nMcLean, VA 22102\t | FAX:\t(703) 827-3729\n\n[I think the original claim may have been somewhat more limited than\nthis. It was an answer to the claim that the witnesses couldn't\nbe lying because they were willign to suffer for their beliefs.\nThus it's not necessary to show that no Christian ever suffered\nfor believing in the Resurrection. Rather the issue is whether\nthose who witnessed it did.\n\nI do agree that the posting you're responding to shows that there\ncan be liberal as well as conservative dogmatism.", "Dear Rob,\n\n\nSometimes I do come across condesending, and I am sorry I come across that\nway at times. Thank you for the reproach, I really do appreciate it. I'll\ntry to get better.\n\nRob, at the same time, I have also learned that some people respond to the gentle\napproach while others respond only at a harsh rebuke. Brian K., so far,\nonly responds to the latter. And I am glad he responds at all. In both\ncases of approach, my intention is to be loving. I am making no excuse\nfor myself if I am coming across condesending. I apologize for that.\n\nRob, sometimes Brian K. comes across as honest. I know this. But Brian K. \nvasillates back and forth. One post looks honest; the next is\nan excuse. Now he wants me to explain the universe in 50 words or less. \nI think Brian Kendig is really trying but he is too comfortable with\nhis set of excuses. \n\nI just want Brian K. to be honest with himself. If he really wants\nto know, he will ask questions and stop asserting irrelevant excuses\nwhich have nothing to do with my God. I wish Brian would read the\nBible for himself and come to his own decisions without being\nsidetracked with the temptation to mock God.\n\nFrom my perspective Rob, when I look at Brian Kendig, I see a man\nstanding out in the middle of a highway. Off into the distance I \nsee a Mack truck heading right for him, but Brian K. is faced away\nfrom the oncoming truck. He doesn't see it. Here's is how I see\nthe dialog:\n\n\nMe: \"Brian K, please step aside before you get run over.\" \n\nBK: \"There is no truck.\"\n\nMe: \"Turn around at look.\"\n\nBK: \"No.\"\n\nMe: \"Look! You will be healthier if you do take a look at\n the oncoming truck.\"\n\nBK: \"No. Explain to me why trucks exist.\"\n\nMe: \"Turn around or you will run over.\"\n\nBK: \"No. I won't because I like hiking and tomorrow is Tuesday.\"\n\nMe: \"You blind fool! Why do you choose ignorance? You have nothing\n to lose if you look. But if do not look, you will certainly lose your life.\"\n I do not want to see you squashed all over the road.\n\nBK: \"It is my life to lose. I rather not look.\n Besides, a truck running over me will not harm me.\"\n And by the way, I really have an open mind.\"\n\n\nSo is my motivation to belittle Brian, or to love Brian the best I know how? \n\nI do not wish to single Brian Kendig out. Because millions if not\nbillions of people fall into the same category. Perhaps all people\nfall have fallen into this category at one time in their lives. I have.\nI can now see the truck behind Brian.\n\nMy hope is that Brian will look and will see the ramifications of the\ntruck coming towards him. My hope is that Brian will want to step out\nof the way. My fear, though, is that Brian will instead choose to glue himself\nto the middle of the highway, where he will certainly get run over. But if\nhe so chooses, he so chooses, and there is nothing I can do beyond that\nto change his mind. For it is his choice. But at this very moment,\nBrian hasn't gotten even that far. He is still at the point where he\ndoes not want to look. Sure he moves his eyeball to appease me, but his\nhead will not turn around to see the entire picture. So far he is\nsatisfied with his glimpse of the mountains off in the distance. ", "\n\nI would like to add my support for a misc.taoism discussion group.\nI applaud the enthusiam shown by the person posting <79899@cup.portal.com> \n\"Thyagi@cup.portal.com\" (I read in alt.magick), but I differ\nwith him/her in believing that at least some minimal parameters \nshould be agreed upon.\n\n\n\nBut if we don't limit it to *something*, the discussion degenerates into\na big amorphous glob. \n\nOther questions Thyagi proposes are:\n\n\nIt seems to me that these questions more properly fall into the\ncategory of \"general metaphysics\". I would prefer any misc.taoism\nto deal more closely with topics and works more closely associated\nwith at least \"semi-orthodox\" Taoism: with established classic works \ndefinitely included and works like Mantak Chia's argued about! \n\nI think \"neo-Taoism\" should be excluded or get its own group (what I\nmean by this is \"Humpty-Dumpty Taoism\", in which Taoism means whatever \na poster says it means.) This \"alt.taoism\" could also be a refuge \nfor debates about what \"Taoism *REALLY* means\" or speculations on sexual\nalchemy, etc..\n\ne.g. (from Thyagi again):\n\nKent gloomily predicts (quoting from Thyagi's article):\n\n\nI think that discussions of this nature are not completely out of\nplace. What's happening is that that the term \"Taoism\" is becoming\ncompletely polluted and trivialized like the words \"magic\", \"Alchemy\", \n\"Zen,\" etc., by writers appropriating the word to mean whatever they \nwant. This is seen by the spate of new age books entitled \"The\nTao of\" this, that, and everything else. (With respect to some exceptions\nlike the books by Jou, Tsung-Hwa.)\n\nAny other comments/ideas? I look forward to seeing them. On balance,\nI say let misc.taoism rip and let the chips fall where they may. If\nit just gets filled up with college freshmen asking about the\nTao of Sex then it will have been a failure and people will post to\nthese groups just as they do now.\n\n-- ", "There is some controversy in my denomination as to what authority is vested \nin the pastor. I am still forming my opinion. I am solicing opinions, and \nreferences for what that is, how much, and how it should be used.\n\n As a general reference, I would not exclude responses from different \ndenominations based on Biblical teachings, but you have to understand our \nchurch is independent, protestant and likely to be much different from those \nthat follow ecclesiastical authority in the church. We may need to discuss \nthe roles of deacons and elders.\n\nThanks for your replies.\n\n", "\n\nThat's right, and this is pretty impossible, right? It would be ideal if\nwe could believe for a while, just to try out religion, and only then\ndetermine which course of thought suits us best. But again, this is not\npossible. Not that religion warrants belief, but the belief carries with\nit some psychological benefits. There are also some psychological\nburdens, too.\n\n\nWell, if there were some psychological or other benefits gained from racism,\nthey could only be fully understood or judged by persons actually \"believing\"\nin racism. Of course, the parallel happens to be a poor one, but you\noriginated it.", "\nI've asked your god several times with all my heart to come to me. I\nreally wish I could believe in him, 'cos no matter how much confidence\nI build up on my own, the universe *is* a big place, and it would be\nso nice to know I have someone watching over me in it...\n\nI've gone into this with an open mind. I've layed my beliefs aside\nfrom time to time when I've had doubt, and I've prayed to see what\ngood that would do. I don't see what more I can do to open myself to\nyour god, short of just deciding to believe for no good reason. And\nif I decide to believe for no good reason, why not believe in some\nother god? Zeus seems like a pretty cool candidate...\n\nAll I know is that in all my searching, even though I've set aside my\npride and decided that I want to know the truth no matter how\ndifficult it may be to accept, I have never had any encounter with any\ndeity, Christian or otherwise.\n\nPlease tell me what more I can do while still remaining true to myself.\n", "I found this on the net at my college. It sounds pretty good to me. What do\n you folks think?\n\n >This are the tenets of Stan as handed down and set within the Holy Book \n >of Stan.\n >\n >1: Thou shalt not spill thine drinks or waste thine food, for all that \n >is is sacred, and to waste is the denizen of Luc, the Infidel. All who \n >waste today shall have not tomorrow.\n >\n >2: Thou shalt pay heed to those who know the higher calling of Stan so\n >that they may teach you the way, and that thou shalt become one with\n >Stan and the universe shall be in your hands.\n >\n >3: Thou shalt honor thy loved ones and cherish those near you, for they\n >are the true path to happiness, and happiness is a devine gift of thy\n >lord Stan.\n >\n >4: Stan is the one true God and shall be taken before all others so\n >that the false gods will know that he is the one, and all who oppose\n >him shall forever be banished to the form of the sheep and be sent to\n >the flocks of Luc for all eternity.\n >\n >5: The word is the law, and the law is the word. The word is within\n >thine own heart, follow the path and be true to thine own self and thou\n >shalt be blessed by Stan, thy lord and saviour.\n > \n >6: Thou shalt honor the faiths of others, for it is their choice to\n >follow this path, and do not think less of others for being of a\n >different faith, yet even in the face of these false gods, do not\n >waiver in thine faith in Stan, and hope that the unbeliever will see\n >the light that is Stan.\n >\n >7: Thou shalt not wrong others for being different, for Stan cherishes\n >the different, and holds freedom in the highest regard, for to do less\n >would be to fall in with Luc, the Infidel, for Stan does not control,\n >he merely guides, and lets the choice lie within thine own heart.\n >\n >8: Thou shalt know that thy lord Stan has many names and is called\n >differently by many people, but know also that Stan is the true name,\n >and all those of the faith shall know that Stan is God and God is Stan.\n >\n >9: Thou shalt be to the world what thou art to thineself, for to be\n >false to others is to be false to yourself. Thy lord Stan asks not that\n >you be like him, he asks only that you be like yourself for that is all\n >you were ever meant to be.\n >\n >10: Thou shalt not kill the innocent nor spill blood unnecessarily, for\n >those who are deserving of death shall be dealt with by Stan and sent\n >for all eternity to the flocks of Luc, and those who harm the children \n >of Stan, being born of Woman, shall be judged as the sheep of\n >Luc and spend all of time within his flocks.\n >\n >These commandments are the words of Stan. Heed them and he shall be\n >happy, and if thy lord Stan is happy, his happiness shall be passed\n >down to his followers.\n >\n >Hail Stan!\n\n It seems like a pretty good set of tenets to me.\n\n\t\t\t\t-=V=-\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nI like kittens... | E-Mail: | Robert Voss | DIE!!\nEspecially with | rgv9488@ultb.isc.rit.edu | 25 Andrews Memorial Dr | DIE!!\na side order of | RGV9488@RITVAX.ISC.RIT.EDU | CPU# 01479 | DIE!!\nfrench fries... | RGV9488@RITVAX.BITNET | Rochester NY 14623 | DIE!!\n------------------------------------------------------------------------| DIE!!\n I AM DARKNESS ETERNAL! CALL ME! MY PHONE NUMBER IS (716) 475-4197 | DIE!!", "\nI am asking you to believe in things not visible. I don't know if this is\nbelieveing blindly or not. I'm not sure how blindness comes into it. I do\nnot deny reason, indeed I insist upon it, but reason only draws conclusions\nfrom evidence. If you decide in advance that your reason will act only on\nthe evidence of the five physical senses, then you cut reason off from any\npossibility of reaching a conclusion outside the physical sphere (beyond the\nrather provocative, if inconclusive, conclusion that the physical sphere\nis not self explanatory). \n\nChristians claim that they have received a different kind of evidence, \nwhich they call faith, and which is a gift of God. That is, this evidence\nis the evidence of a thing which chooses to reveal or hide itself. The \nevidence of the senses cannot tell you is such a ting exists. Reasoning\non the evidence of the senses won't help either. But Christians do reason\nof the evidence of faith, and do claim that this evidence is wholly\nconsistent with the evidence of the other senses, and indeed, that the\nevidence of these other senses is part of God's revelation of himself\nto us.\n\nIt is not necessarilly the case however that knowledge of a God must come\nthrough this route. There may be other senses than the physical ones\nproviding evidence of non-physical realities. (There may, of course, be\nphysical realities of a type for which we have no corresponding senses, for\nall we know.) These senses, if they exist, may provide valid evidence for\nreason to work on. And, as with all senses, these senses may be impaired\nin some people, that is, they may be spiritually blind. In this sense,\nbelief in God becomes an act of sight, and it is disbelief which is blind.\n\nFaith, as I have said, is not opposed to reason, it is simply a new source \nof evidence on which reason may operate. It is clear that human beings\nhave many systems for explaining the evidence of the physical senses, and\nsimilarly there are many systems for explaining the evidence provided by\nfaith. Religious believers in general, and Christians in particular, use\nreason to help sift through the evidence to come to a clearer understanding\nof the evidence provided by faith. Science claims, with good reason, to be\nthe most valid system for explaining the physical universe, and Christianity\nclaims, also with good reason, to be the most valid system, possessed of the\nbest evidence, for explaining Gods revelations of himself to man.\n\nIf you doubt that Christians use reason, read this newsgroup for a while\nand you will see rational debate aplenty.", "\nTammy, is this all explicitly stated in the bible, or do you assume\nthat you know that Ezekiel indirectly mentioned? It could have been\nanother metaphor, for instance Ezekiel was mad at his landlord, so he\ntalked about him when he wrote about the prince of Tyre.\n\nSorry, but my interpretation is more mundane, Ezekiel wrote about \nthe prince of Tyre when we wrote about the prince of Tyre.\n \nCheers,\nKent", "Hi there netters,\nI have a question I would very much like to see some discussion on:\nIs there such a thing as a 'justifible' war? \n\nWhat I would love to see it some basis from scripture for either: \"All war \nis wrong\", or \"Some war is justifiable\". \n\nTo get things started I would like to outline why I am asking the \nquestion. In my high school days I had been quite involved in the the New \nZealand Cadet Forces (This is a bit like ROTC from what I understand of \nit, but with a lot more emphasis on fun than military career training). \nThrough this I became extremely enamoured of flying, have become involved \nin the sport of gliding, and have a great interest in military aviation \nhardware as the very best a 'real' flyer could ask for. My favourite \ncomputer games are the accurate simulations of military aircraft, both \npast and present. \n\nI became a Christian about 10 years ago, and at the time rejected all \nmilitary activity as immoral. For me, all war was in complete opposition \nto God's commandments to love one another, especially one's enemies.\n\nDuring the war in Iraq, I found myself with great excitement listening to \nthe reports of the effectiveness of the the attacks using the aviation \ntechnology I so admire - The F117A 'Stealh' bomber, the F14, F15 and F16 \nstrike aircraft, etc. After the war concluded I began to really enjoy \nsimulations based around this conflict - Great to go and bomb Saddam's \nbio-weapons plants in an F117A on my computer, or shoot down some of his \nMig's in an F16. The simulation of the death of people was a wonderful \ngame. I imagine the real pilots view the real thing in much the same way. \nOne only has to look at the language used to see that the personal impact \nof war is ignored: A building containing people, or an aircraft flown by a \npilot is simply a 'target'. Dead civilians are 'collateral damage'. These \neuphanisms are a way of removing the reality of war from the people whose \nsupport are necessary for the continued waging of war - One only has to \nlook at Vietnam to see how important public opinion is.\n\nNow we see troops sponsored by the United Nations entering Somalia, and \nthe prospect of military intervention in the Muslim/Croat/Serb conflict in \nthe former Yugoslavia. My revulsion in particular to the siege of \nSarajevo, and in the last few days of (sorry 'bout spelling) Sebrenitsa, \nhas caused me to rethink where I stand on 'justifiable' war.\n\nI will list several wars in the last 50 years I can look at each, and say \n- Yes this may have been justifible, this may not. These are simply my gut \nreactions to each - In many cases with the benefit of the impartiality \nhistory brings. Let me go through a few and state some of my reasons for \nmy reaction - I am not a historian, so excuse any historical blunders, I \nam working from popular history as it is known in New Zealand.\n\n1. The Second World War\n\t- Murder of Jews - Hitler had to be stopped.\n\t- Massive civilian casualties on both sides \n\t\t- Dresden, Hiroshima/Nagasaki\n\t- Probably justifiable.\n\n2. Korean war\n\t- Political expansionism by North Korea, basically\n\t communism vs. capitalism.\n\t- Probably not justifiable.\n\n3. Vietnam\n\t- As above, worsened by US involvement.\n\n4. Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia.\n\t- Genocide by Khmer Rouge.\n\t- Probably justifiable.\n\n5. Iraq (Desert Storm)\n\t- Political expansionism, threat to world oil supply\n\t- Other factors such as genocide.\n\t- Not sure, but probably justifiable\n\n6. A future involvement in Bosnia\n\t- Genocide - so called 'Ethnic Cleansing'\n\t- Emotive - much TV coverage of atrocities and civilian casualties.\n\t- Probably justifiable\n\n7. Possible future use of nuclear weapons - tactical or strategic, \nsomewhere in the world by the US in response to someone else - e.g. Libya \nor Israel.\n\t- My feelings in this are simple\n\t- Nuclear war/weapons are abhorrent\n\t- I love the New Zealand government's stand on banning all nuclear\n\t armed or powered warships from NZ port.\n\t- Never justifiable.\n\nThese are my own views, I have looked at scripture, and I am confused. I \nwould appreciate others view, particularly those based on scripture. I \n*don't* want a - Naaahh, yer wrong - I think answers 8-).\n\nThanks for your help.\n\n==========================================================================\n |\nAlastair Thomson, | Phone +64-3-479-8347\nChief Programmer, | Fax +64-3-479-8529\nThe Black Albatross Porject, |\nUniversity of Otago, |\nDepartment of Computer Science, | e-mail alastair@farli.otago.ac.nz\nP.O. Box 56 | athomson@otago.ac.nz\nDunedin | NeXTmail Welcome\nNew Zealand |\n \n \"God loved the world so much, that he gave us His Son, to die in \n our place, so that we may have eternal life\" John 3:16, paraphrase", "\n\nbut theology is full of reason even if it is, as we believe, based on false\npremises etc etc.\n\n\nhold on there: no meaning to \"consciousness\" or \"mind\" or \"self\"?!\n\n\nwhat illogicality?\n\n\nsince when is, for instance, (non-behaviourist) psychology a pipe dream? \nSurely the major purpose of the science of psychology is to understand the\nworkings of the mind.\n\n\n\"manifestations of the mundane\" sounds rather transcendental to me. In fact\n\"matter\", \"energy\", \"space\" and \"time\" are well measured but mysterious\nconcepts. \n\nDoes an atheist really have to believe in your reductionism or be cast out as\nnot following the true faith?!", "I'm compiling a bibliography on religious perspectives on esotericism,\nhermeticism, gnosticism, mysticism, occultism, alchemy and magic, and\nam interested in sources that others have found particularly interesting\nand insightful. I'm especially interested in medieval works, such as\n_The Chemical Wedding of Christian Rosenkreutz_ and Arthurian legends.\n\nPlease feel free, too, to send personal opinions on any of the above,\npro or con or anywhere in between. Thanks much.", " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nJoe, just 'cause you say they aren't subject to interpretation doesn't\nnecesarily make it so. That's *your* *interpretation* of these texts.\n\n\n2 Peter 1:20-21\nBut know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter \nof one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of\nhuman will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.\n\nThe study notes in my Bible offer three possible meanings for verse 20.\nApparantly it's not as clear to Charles Ryrie as it is to you.\n\n2 Timothy 3:16-17\nAll Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for\nreproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; that the man of\nGod may be adequate, equipped for every good work.\n\nGalations 1:11-12\nFor I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached\nby me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, \nnor was I taught it, but I receieved it through a revelation of Jesus\nChrist.\n\nWhen I read these passages, it was not immediately clear to me what\nevery phrase meant. I had stop and think about the possible\nconnotations of words, what the intent of the author may have been,\nwonder if the translator used the correct English word to convey the \nsame meaning: I had to interpret. If you want to believe that your \nare not interpreting Scripture as you read, there's probably nothing \nI can say to change your mind. But I think it's naive to think that \nour culture, experiences, education, do not affect everything we read.\n\n\nIn college, I took an entire course in Biblical interpretation. Go to\nany Christian bookstore, there are scores of books on interpreting and\nunderstanding Scripture. If interpretation is unnecessary, there are \nan awful lot of misguided Christians out there wasting a lot of time \nand energy on it.", "[This is SWF in another indirect post via Dan].\n\npredicitions\nif you\nhave some\nmany types of\nhappen again\nmay predict\nreaction\n\nThere are several problems here. First, you are discussing only\nexperimental procedures. Observational procedures are also useful. The\nmain criterion is attempting to verify an idea by using it to make\nprediction about as-yet unmade observations. The observations could be\nthe result of an experiment, or they could be obsevations of activity\noccuring spontaneossly in nature, or they could even be observations of\nthe lasting results of events long past. All that matters is that the\nobservations be *new*. This is what prediction is about in science -\nit is\n*not* about predicting the future except in this very restricted\nsense.\n\nSecondly, repeatability can also take many forms. It is really just\nthe\nrequirement that independent observers be able to verify the results.\nThe\nobservation of a fossil is 'repeatable', since any qualified observer\nmay\nlook at it (this is why the specimens are reqtined in a museum). Also,\nthere is the implicit prediction that future fossil finds will\ncorrespond\nto the current one. New fossils are found often enough that this is\ntested regularly. Many times a new fossil actually falsifies some\nconclusion made on the basis of previous fossils.\n\nUnfortunately for you, the models that were falsified have alway been\nperipheral to the model of evolution we now have. (For instance, the\nfront legs of Tyrannosaurus rex turned out to have tremendous muscles,\nrather than being weakly endowed as previously believed).\n\nSo, in fact, histoircal science findings *are* repeatable in the\nnecessary sense. Just becuase you cannot go out and repeat the\noriginal\nevent does *not* make it impossible to make valid observations.\n\n[This is not to say that biologists would not go coo-coo if extra-\nterrestrial life were discovered - that could make the determination\nof the process of abiogenesis relatively easy].\n\n--\nsarima@teradata.com (formerly tdatirv!sarima)\n or\nStanley.Friesen@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com", "\n\nI'm sure all the religious types would get in a snit due\nto Asimov's atheism.\n\nDo we have any atheists on stamps now?\n", "Archive-name: atheism/logic\nAlt-atheism-archive-name: logic\nLast-modified: 5 April 1993\nVersion: 1.4\n\n Constructing a Logical Argument\n\nAlthough there is much argument on Usenet, the general quality of argument\nfound is poor. This article attempts to provide a gentle introduction to\nlogic, in the hope of improving the general level of debate.\n\nLogic is the science of reasoning, proof, thinking, or inference [Concise\nOED]. Logic allows us to analyze a piece of reasoning and determine whether\nit is correct or not (valid or invalid). Of course, one does not need to\nstudy logic in order to reason correctly; nevertheless, a little basic\nknowledge of logic is often helpful when constructing or analyzing an\nargument.\n\nNote that no claim is being made here about whether logic is universally\napplicable. The matter is very much open for debate. This document merely\nexplains how to use logic, given that you have already decided that logic is\nthe right tool for the job.\n\nPropositions (or statements) are the building blocks of a logical argument. A\nproposition is a statement which is either true or false; for example, \"It is\nraining\" or \"Today is Tuesday\". Propositions may be either asserted (said to\nbe true) or denied (said to be false). Note that this is a technical meaning\nof \"deny\", not the everyday meaning.\n\nThe proposition is the meaning of the statement, not the particular\narrangement of words used to express it. So \"God exists\" and \"There exists a\nGod\" both express the same proposition.\n\nAn argument is, to quote the Monty Python sketch, \"a connected series of\nstatements to establish a definite proposition\". An argument consists of\nthree stages.\n\nFirst of all, the propositions which are necessary for the argument to\ncontinue are stated. These are called the premises of the argument. They\nare the evidence or reasons for accepting the argument and its conclusions. \n\nPremises (or assertions) are often indicated by phrases such as \"because\",\n\"since\", \"obviously\" and so on. (The phrase \"obviously\" is often viewed with\nsuspicion, as it can be used to intimidate others into accepting suspicious\npremises. If something doesn't seem obvious to you, don't be afraid to\nquestion it. You can always say \"Oh, yes, you're right, it is obvious\" when\nyou've heard the explanation.)\n\nNext, the premises are used to derive further propositions by a process known\nas inference. In inference, one proposition is arrived at on the basis of\none or more other propositions already accepted. There are various forms of\nvalid inference.\n\nThe propositions arrived at by inference may then be used in further\ninference. Inference is often denoted by phrases such as \"implies that\" or\n\"therefore\".\n\nFinally, we arrive at the conclusion of the argument -- the proposition which\nis affirmed on the basis of the premises and inference. Conclusions are often\nindicated by phrases such as \"therefore\", \"it follows that\", \"we conclude\"\nand so on. The conclusion is often stated as the final stage of inference.\n\nFor example:\n\nEvery event has a cause (premise)\nThe universe has a beginning (premise)\nAll beginnings involve an event (premise)\nThis implies that the beginning of the universe involved an event (inference)\nTherefore the universe has a cause (inference and conclusion)\n\nNote that the conclusion of one argument might be a premise in another\nargument. A proposition can only be called a premise or a conclusion with\nrespect to a particular argument; the terms do not make sense in isolation.\n\nSometimes an argument will not follow the order given above; for example,\nthe conclusions might be stated first and the premises stated \nafterwards in support of the conclusion. This is perfectly valid, if \nsometimes a little confusing.\n\nRecognizing an argument is much harder than recognizing premises or\nconclusions. Many people shower their writing with assertions without ever\nproducing anything which one might reasonably describe as an argument. Some\nstatements look like arguments, but are not. For example:\n\n\"If the Bible is accurate, Jesus must either have been insane, an evil liar,\n or the Son of God.\"\n\nThis is not an argument, it is a conditional statement. It does not assert\nthe premises which are necessary to support what appears to be its \nconclusion. (It also suffers from a number of other logical flaws, but we'll\ncome to those later.)\n\nAnother example:\n\n\"God created you; therefore do your duty to God.\"\n\nThe phrase \"do your duty to God\" is not a proposition, since it is neither\ntrue nor false. Therefore it is not a conclusion, and the sentence is not an\nargument.\n\nFinally, causality is important. Consider a statement of the form \"A because\nB\". If we're interested in establishing A and B is offered as evidence, the\nstatement is an argument. If we're trying to establish the truth of B, then\nit is not an argument, it is an explanation.\n\nFor example:\n\n\"There must be something wrong with the engine of my car, because it will not\n start.\" -- This is an argument.\n\n\"My car will not start because there is something wrong with the engine.\"\n -- This is an explanation.\n\nThere are two traditional types of argument, deductive and inductive. A\ndeductive argument is one which provides conclusive proof of its conclusions\n-- that is, an argument where if the premises are true, the conclusion must\nalso be true. A deductive argument is either valid or invalid. A valid\nargument is defined as one where if the premises are true, then the\nconclusion is true.\n\nAn inductive argument is one where the premises provide some evidence for the\ntruth of the conclusion. Inductive arguments are not valid or invalid;\nhowever, we can talk about whether they are better or worse than other\narguments, and about how probable their premises are.\n\nThere are forms of argument in ordinary language which are neither deductive\nnor inductive. However, we will concentrate for the moment on deductive\narguments, as they are often viewed as the most rigorous and convincing.\n\nIt is important to note that the fact that a deductive argument is valid does\nnot imply that its conclusion holds. This is because of the slightly \ncounter-intuitive nature of implication, which we must now consider more\ncarefully.\n\nObviously a valid argument can consist of true propositions. However, an\nargument may be entirely valid even if it contains only false propositions. \nFor example:\n\n All insects have wings (premise)\n Woodlice are insects (premise)\n Therefore woodlice have wings (conclusion)\n\nHere, the conclusion is not true because the argument's premises are false. \nIf the argument's premises were true, however, the conclusion would be true. \nThe argument is thus entirely valid.\n\nMore subtly, we can reach a true conclusion from one or more false premises,\nas in:\n\n All fish live in the sea (premise)\n Dolphins are fish (premise)\n Therefore dolphins live in the sea (conclusion)\n\nHowever, the one thing we cannot do is reach a false conclusion through valid\ninference from true premises. We can therefore draw up a \"truth table\" for\nimplication.\n\nThe symbol \"=>\" denotes implication; \"A\" is the premise, \"B\" the conclusion. \n\"T\" and \"F\" represent true and false respectively.\n\nPremise Conclusion Inference\n A B A=>B\n----------------------------\n F F T If the premises are false and the inference\n F T T valid, the conclusion can be true or false.\n\n T F F If the premises are true and the conclusion\n false, the inference must be invalid.\n\n T T T If the premises are true and the inference valid,\n the conclusion must be true.\n\nA sound argument is a valid argument whose premises are true. A sound \nargument therefore arrives at a true conclusion. Be careful not to confuse\nvalid arguments with sound arguments.\n\nTo delve further into the structure of logical arguments would require\nlengthy discussion of linguistics and philosophy. It is simpler and probably\nmore useful to summarize the major pitfalls to be avoided when constructing\nan argument. These pitfalls are known as fallacies.\n\nIn everyday English the term \"fallacy\" is used to refer to mistaken beliefs\nas well as to the faulty reasoning that leads to those beliefs. This is fair\nenough, but in logic the term is generally used to refer to a form of\ntechnically incorrect argument, especially if the argument appears valid or\nconvincing.\n\nSo for the purposes of this discussion, we define a fallacy as a logical\nargument which appears to be correct, but which can be seen to be incorrect\nwhen examined more closely. By studying fallacies we aim to avoid being\nmisled by them. The following list of fallacies is not intended to be\nexhaustive.\n\nARGUMENTUM AD BACULUM (APPEAL TO FORCE)\n\nThe Appeal to Force is committed when the arguer resorts to force or the\nthreat of force in order to try and push the acceptance of a conclusion. It\nis often used by politicians, and can be summarized as \"might makes right\". \nThe force threatened need not be a direct threat from the arguer.\n\nFor example:\n\"... Thus there is ample proof of the truth of the Bible. All those who\nrefuse to accept that truth will burn in Hell.\"\n\nARGUMENTUM AD HOMINEM\n\nArgumentum ad hominem is literally \"argument directed at the man\".\n\nThe Abusive variety of Argumentum ad Hominem occurs when, instead of trying\nto disprove the truth of an assertion, the arguer attacks the person or\npeople making the assertion. This is invalid because the truth of an\nassertion does not depend upon the goodness of those asserting it.\n\nFor example:\n\"Atheism is an evil philosophy. It is practised by Communists and murderers.\"\n\nSometimes in a court of law doubt is cast upon the testimony of a witness by \nshowing, for example, that he is a known perjurer. This is a valid way of\nreducing the credibility of the testimony given by the witness, and not\nargumentum ad hominem; however, it does not demonstrate that the witness's\ntestimony is false. To conclude otherwise is to fall victim of the\nArgumentum ad Ignorantiam (see elsewhere in this list).\n\nThe circumstantial form of Argumentum ad Hominem is committed when a person\nargues that his opponent ought to accept the truth of an assertion because of\nthe opponent's particular circumstances.\n\nFor example:\n\"It is perfectly acceptable to kill animals for food. How can you argue\notherwise when you're quite happy to wear leather shoes?\"\n\nThis is an abusive charge of inconsistency, used as an excuse for dismissing\nthe opponent's argument.\n\nThis fallacy can also be used as a means of rejecting a conclusion. For \nexample:\n\n\"Of course you would argue that positive discrimination is a bad thing. \nYou're white.\"\n\nThis particular form of Argumentum ad Hominem, when one alleges that one's\nadversary is rationalizing a conclusion formed from selfish interests, is\nalso known as \"poisoning the well\".\n\nARGUMENTUM AD IGNORANTIUM\n\nArgumentum ad ignorantium means \"argument from ignorance\". This fallacy\noccurs whenever it is argued that something must be true simply because it\nhas not been proved false. Or, equivalently, when it is argued that\nsomething must be false because it has not been proved true. (Note that this\nis not the same as assuming that something is false until it has been proved\ntrue, a basic scientific principle.)\n\nExamples:\n\"Of course the Bible is true. Nobody can prove otherwise.\"\n\n\"Of course telepathy and other psychic phenomena do not exist. Nobody has\nshown any proof that they are real.\"\n\nNote that this fallacy does not apply in a court of law, where one is\ngenerally assumed innocent until proven guilty.\n\nAlso, in scientific investigation if it is known that an event would produce\ncertain evidence of its having occurred, the absence of such evidence can \nvalidly be used to infer that the event did not occur. For example:\n\n\"A flood as described in the Bible would require an enormous volume of water\nto be present on the earth. The earth does not have a tenth as much water,\neven if we count that which is frozen into ice at the poles. Therefore no\nsuch flood occurred.\"\n\nIn science, we can validly assume from lack of evidence that something has\nnot occurred. We cannot conclude with certainty that it has not occurred,\nhowever.\n\nARGUMENTUM AD MISERICORDIAM\n\nThis is the Appeal to Pity, also known as Special Pleading. The fallacy is \ncommitted when the arguer appeals to pity for the sake of getting a \nconclusion accepted. For example:\n\n\"I did not murder my mother and father with an axe. Please don't find me\nguilty; I'm suffering enough through being an orphan.\"\n\nARGUMENTUM AD POPULUM\n\nThis is known as Appealing to the Gallery, or Appealing to the People. To\ncommit this fallacy is to attempt to win acceptance of an assertion by\nappealing to a large group of people. This form of fallacy is often\ncharacterized by emotive language. For example:\n\n\"Pornography must be banned. It is violence against women.\"\n\n\"The Bible must be true. Millions of people know that it is. Are you trying\nto tell them that they are all mistaken fools?\"\n\nARGUMENTUM AD NUMERAM\n\nThis fallacy is closely related to the argumentum ad populum. It consists of\nasserting that the more people who support or believe a proposition, the more\nlikely it is that that proposition is correct.\n\nARGUMENTUM AD VERECUNDIAM\n\nThe Appeal to Authority uses the admiration of the famous to try and win\nsupport for an assertion. For example:\n\n\"Isaac Newton was a genius and he believed in God.\"\n\nThis line of argument is not always completely bogus; for example, reference\nto an admitted authority in a particular field may be relevant to a\ndiscussion of that subject. For example, we can distinguish quite clearly\nbetween:\n\n\"Stephen Hawking has concluded that black holes give off radiation\"\nand\n\"John Searle has concluded that it is impossible to build an intelligent\n computer\"\n\nHawking is a physicist, and so we can reasonably expect his opinions on black\nhole radiation to be informed. Searle is a linguist, so it is questionable \nwhether he is well-qualified to speak on the subject of machine intelligence.\n\nTHE FALLACY OF ACCIDENT\n\nThe Fallacy of Accident is committed when a general rule is applied to a\nparticular case whose \"accidental\" circumstances mean that the rule is\ninapplicable. It is the error made when one goes from the general to the\nspecific. For example:\n\n\"Christians generally dislike atheists. You are a Christian, so you must\ndislike atheists.\"\n\nThis fallacy is often committed by moralists and legalists who try to decide\nevery moral and legal question by mechanically applying general rules.\n\nCONVERSE ACCIDENT / HASTY GENERALIZATION\n\nThis fallacy is the reverse of the fallacy of accident. It occurs when one\nforms a general rule by examining only a few specific cases which are not\nrepresentative of all possible cases.\n\nFor example:\n\"Jim Bakker was an insincere Christian. Therefore all Christians are\ninsincere.\"\n\nSWEEPING GENERALIZATION / DICTO SIMPLICITER\n\nA sweeping generalization occurs when a general rule is applied to a\nparticular situation in which the features of that particular situation\nrender the rule inapplicable. A sweeping generalization is the opposite of a\nhasty generalization.\n\nNON CAUSA PRO CAUSA / POST HOC ERGO PROPTER HOC\n\nThese are known as False Cause fallacies.\n\nThe fallacy of Non Causa Pro Causa occurs when one identifies something as the\ncause of an event but it has not actually been shown to be the cause. For \nexample:\n\n\"I took an aspirin and prayed to God, and my headache disappeared. So God\ncured me of the headache.\"\n\nThe fallacy of Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc occurs when something is assumed to\nbe the cause of an event merely because it happened before the event. For \nexample:\n\n\"The Soviet Union collapsed after taking up atheism. Therefore we must avoid\natheism for the same reasons.\"\n\nCUM HOC ERGO PROPTER HOC\n\nThis fallacy is similar to post hoc ergo propter hoc. It asserts that\nbecause two events occur together, they must be causally related, and leaves\nno room for other factors that may be the cause(s) of the events.\n\nPETITIO PRINCIPII\n\nThis fallacy occurs when the premises are at least as questionable as the\nconclusion reached.\n\nCIRCULUS IN DEMONSTRANDO\n\nThis fallacy occurs when one assumes as a premise the conclusion which one\nwishes to reach. Often, the proposition will be rephrased so that the\nfallacy appears to be a valid argument. For example:\n\n\"Homosexuals must not be allowed to hold government office. Hence any\ngovernment official who is revealed to be a homosexual will lose his job. \nTherefore homosexuals will do anything to hide their secret, and will be open\nto blackmail. Therefore homosexuals cannot be allowed to hold government\noffice.\"\n\nNote that the argument is entirely circular; the premise is the same as the \nconclusion. An argument like the above has actually been cited as the reason\nfor the British Secret Services' official ban on homosexual employees. \nAnother example is the classic:\n\n\"We know that God exists because the Bible tells us so. And we know that the\nBible is true because it is the word of God.\"\n\nCOMPLEX QUESTION / FALLACY OF INTERROGATION\n\nThis is the Fallacy of Presupposition. One example is the classic loaded \nquestion:\n\n\"Have you stopped beating your wife?\"\n\nThe question presupposes a definite answer to another question which has not\neven been asked. This trick is often used by lawyers in cross-examination,\nwhen they ask questions like:\n\n\"Where did you hide the money you stole?\"\n\nSimilarly, politicians often ask loaded questions such as:\n\n\"How long will this EC interference in our affairs be allowed to continue?\"\nor\n\"Does the Chancellor plan two more years of ruinous privatization?\"\n\nIGNORATIO ELENCHI\n\nThe fallacy of Irrelevant Conclusion consists of claiming that an argument \nsupports a particular conclusion when it is actually logically nothing to do\nwith that conclusion.\n\nFor example, a Christian may begin by saying that he will argue that the\nteachings of Christianity are undoubtably true. If he then argues at length\nthat Christianity is of great help to many people, no matter how well he\nargues he will not have shown that Christian teachings are true.\n\nSadly, such fallacious arguments are often successful because they arouse\nemotions which cause others to view the supposed conclusion in a more\nfavourable light.\n\nEQUIVOCATION\n\nEquivocation occurs when a key word is used with two or more different\nmeanings in the same argument. For example:\n\n\"What could be more affordable than free software? But to make sure that it\nremains free, that users can do what they like with it, we must place a\nlicense on it to make sure that will always be freely redistributable.\"\n\nAMPHIBOLY\n\nAmphiboly occurs when the premises used in an argument are ambiguous because\nof careless or ungrammatical phrasing.\n\nACCENT\n\nAccent is another form of fallacy through shifting meaning. In this case,\nthe meaning is changed by altering which parts of a statement are\nemphasized. For example, consider:\n\n\"We should not speak ILL of our friends\"\nand\n\"We should not speak ill of our FRIENDS\"\n\nFALLACIES OF COMPOSITION\n\nOne fallacy of composition is to conclude that a property shared by the parts\nof something must apply to the whole. For example:\n\n\"The bicycle is made entirely of low mass components, and is therefore very \nlightweight.\"\n\nThe other fallacy of composition is to conclude that a property of a number\nof individual items is shared by a collection of those items. For example:\n\n\"A car uses less petrol and causes less pollution than a bus. Therefore cars\nare less environmentally damaging than buses.\"\n\nFALLACY OF DIVISION\n\nThe fallacy of division is the opposite of the fallacy of composition. Like\nits opposite, it exists in two varieties. The first is to assume that a\nproperty of some thing must apply to its parts. For example:\n\n\"You are studying at a rich college. Therefore you must be rich.\"\n\nThe other is to assume that a property of a collection of items is shared by\neach item. For example:\n\n\"Ants can destroy a tree. Therefore this ant can destroy a tree.\"\n\nTHE SLIPPERY SLOPE ARGUMENT\n\nThis argument states that should one event occur, so will other harmful\nevents. There is no proof made that the harmful events are caused by the\nfirst event.\n\nFor example:\n\"If we legalize marijuana, then we would have to legalize crack and heroin\nand we'll have a nation full of drug-addicts on welfare. Therefore we cannot\nlegalize marijuana.\"\n\n\"A IS BASED ON B\" FALLACIES / \"IS A TYPE OF\" FALLACIES\n\nThese fallacies occur when one attempts to argue that things are in some way\nsimilar without actually specifying in what way they are similar.\n\nExamples:\n\"Isn't history based upon faith? If so, then isn't the Bible also a form of\nhistory?\"\n\n\"Islam is based on faith, Christianity is based on faith, so isn't Islam a\nform of Christianity?\"\n\n\"Cats are a form of animal based on carbon chemistry, dogs are a form of\nanimal based on carbon chemistry, so aren't dogs a form of cat?\"\n\nAFFIRMATION OF THE CONSEQUENT\n\nThis fallacy is an argument of the form \"A implies B, B is true, therefore A\nis true\". To understand why it is a fallacy, examine the truth table for\nimplication given earlier.\n\nDENIAL OF THE ANTECEDENT\n\nThis fallacy is an argument of the form \"A implies B, A is false, therefore B\nis false\". Again, the truth table for implication makes it clear why this is\na fallacy.\n\nNote that this fallacy is different from Non Causa Pro Causa; the latter has\nthe form \"A implies B, A is false, therefore B is false\", where A does NOT in\nfact imply B at all. Here, the problem is not that the implication is\ninvalid; rather it is that the falseness of A does not allow us to deduce\nanything about B.\n\nCONVERTING A CONDITIONAL\n\nThis fallacy is an argument of the form \"If A then B, therefore if B then A\".\n\nARGUMENTUM AD ANTIQUITAM\n\nThis is the fallacy of asserting that something is right or good simply\nbecause it is old, or because \"that's the way it's always been.\"\n\nARGUMENTUM AD NOVITAM\n\nThis is the opposite of the argumentum ad antiquitam; it is the fallacy of\nasserting that something is more correct simply because it is new or newer\nthan something else.\n\nARGUMENTUM AD CRUMENAM\n\nThe fallacy of believing that money is a criterion of correctness; that those\nwith more money are more likely to be right.\n\nARGUMENTUM AD LAZARUM\n\nThe fallacy of assuming that because someone is poor he or she is sounder or\nmore virtuous than one who is wealthier. This fallacy is the opposite of the\nargumentum ad crumenam.\n\nARGUMENTUM AD NAUSEAM\n\nThis is the incorrect belief that an assertion is more likely to be true the\nmore often it is heard. An \"argumentum ad nauseum\" is one that employs\nconstant repetition in asserting something.\n\nBIFURCATION\n\nAlso referred to as the \"black and white\" fallacy, bifurcation occurs when\none presents a situation as having only two alternatives, where in fact other\nalternatives exist or can exist.\n\nPLURIUM INTERROGATIONUM / MANY QUESTIONS\n\nThis fallacy occurs when a questioner demands a simple answer to a complex\nquestion.\n\nNON SEQUITUR\n\nA non-sequitur is an argument where the conclusion is drawn from premises\nwhich are not logically connected with it.\n\nRED HERRING\n\nThis fallacy is committed when irrelevant material is introduced to the issue\nbeing discussed, so that everyone's attention is diverted away from the\npoints being made, towards a different conclusion.\n\nREIFICATION / HYPOSTATIZATION\n\nReification occurs when an abstract concept is treated as a concrete thing.\n\nSHIFTING THE BURDEN OF PROOF\n\nThe burden of proof is always on the person making an assertion or\nproposition. Shifting the burden of proof, a special case of argumentum ad\nignorantium, is the fallacy of putting the burden of proof on the person who\ndenies or questions the assertion being made. The source of the fallacy is\nthe assumption that something is true unless proven otherwise.\n\nSTRAW MAN\n\nThe straw man fallacy is to misrepresent someone else's position so that it\ncan be attacked more easily, then to knock down that misrepresented position,\nthen to conclude that the original position has been demolished. It is a\nfallacy because it fails to deal with the actual arguments that have been\nmade.\n\nTHE EXTENDED ANALOGY\n\nThe fallacy of the Extended Analogy often occurs when some suggested general\nrule is being argued over. The fallacy is to assume that mentioning two \ndifferent situations, in an argument about a general rule, constitutes a \nclaim that those situations are analogous to each other.\n\nThis fallacy is best explained using a real example from a debate about \nanti-cryptography legislation:\n\n\"I believe it is always wrong to oppose the law by breaking it.\"\n\n\"Such a position is odious: it implies that you would not have supported\n Martin Luther King.\"\n\n\"Are you saying that cryptography legislation is as important as the\n struggle for Black liberation? How dare you!\"\n\nTU QUOQUE\n\nThis is the famous \"you too\" fallacy. It occurs when an action is argued to\nbe acceptable because the other party has performed it. For instance:\n\n\"You're just being randomly abusive.\"\n\"So? You've been abusive too.\"", "\n\nOr he was just convinced by religious fantasies of the time that he was the\nMessiah, or he was just some rebel leader that an organisation of Jews built\ninto Godhood for the purpose off throwing of the yoke of Roman oppression,\nor.......\n\n\nAre the Moslem fanatics who strap bombs to their backs and driving into\nJewish embassies dying for the truth (hint: they think they are)? Were the\nNAZI soldiers in WWII dying for the truth? \n\nPeople die for lies all the time.\n\n\n\nWas Hitler a liar? How about Napoleon, Mussolini, Ronald Reagan? We spend\nmillions of dollars a year trying to find techniques to detect lying? So the\nanswer is no, they wouldn't be able to tell if he was a liar if he only lied\nabout some things.\n\n\nWhy do you think he healed people, because the Bible says so? But if God\ndoesn't exist (the other possibility) then the Bible is not divinely\ninspired and one can't use it as a piece of evidence, as it was written by\nunbiased observers.\n\n\nWere Hitler or Mussolini lunatics? How about Genghis Khan, Jim Jones...\nthere are thousands of examples through history of people being drawn to\nlunatics.\n\n\nSo we obviously cannot rule out liar or lunatic not to mention all the other\npossibilities not given in this triad.\n\n\nPossibly self-fulfilling prophecy (ie he was aware what he should do in\norder to fulfil these prophecies), possibly selective diting on behalf of\nthose keepers of the holy bible for a thousand years or so before the\ngeneral; public had access. possibly also that the text is written in such\nriddles (like Nostradamus) that anything that happens can be twisted to fit\nthe words of raving fictional 'prophecy'.\n\n [stuff about how hard it is to be a christian deleted]\n\nI severely recommend you reconsider the reasons you are a christian, they\nare very unconvincing to an unbiased observer.", "\n\nI think you are vastly oversimplifying things. We know that early Christians\nsuffered totures because of their witness to Christ. For example:\n\nACT 5:40 His speech persuaded them. They called the apostles in and had\n them flogged. Then they ordered them not to speak in the name of\n Jesus, and let them go.\n\nACT 5:41 The apostles left the Sanhedrin, rejoicing because they had been\n counted worthy of suffering disgrace for the Name.\n\nIt appears that the Jewish rulers of that time had a particular aversion\nto even hearing Jesus's name.\nACT 5:28 \"We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name,\" he said.\n \"Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are\n determined to make us guilty of this man's blood.\"\n\nFinally, the first apostle's death, James of Zebedee was certainly\nnot by Rome's hand any more than the first martyr Stephen. \n\n\n\nThe problem was that if one believed in the Resurrection, then one\nmust believe in Jesus as truly being the Son of God and what He\nstood for and preached during His ministry on Earth. That would\nhave been extremely difficult for some people, especially those\nthat had plotted to kill Him. \n\n", "\n[writing to someone else]\n\n\nCan we get back to using the terms \"strong Atheist\" and \"weak Atheist\"\nrather than this \"hard Atheist\" and \"soft Atheist\". I can imagine \nfuture discussions with Newbies where there is confusion because of the\nmultiplication of descriptions.\n\n[rest deleted]\n", "\n\n\n\nHumanist, or sub-humanist? :-)", "\nOh no, not again.\n\nThere is a difference between believing that God exists, and loving him.\n(For instance, Satan certainly believes God exists, but does not love him.)\nWhat unbelievers request in situations like this is that God provide evidence\ncompelling enough to believe he exists, not to compel them to love him.\n--\n\"On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Leftover Turkey!\nOn the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Turkey Casserole\n that she made from Leftover Turkey.\n[days 3-4 deleted] ... Flaming Turkey Wings! ...\n -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait)", "\n For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the\nbarrier, the dividing wall of hostility, \nEphesians 2:14\n", "\n\nIf possible (last I heard, it was out of print but they were considering \nreprinting) read Barbara Hambly's _Search the Seven Hills_. It is \nhistorical fiction, set in Rome at the time of the early Church. She \ncaptures the weirdness of the early Christians and yet gives glimpses of \nthe holiness too. Some of their odd views make a lot more sense in the \ncontext of the society they lived in. I found it a remarkably positive \nview of Christianity considering that the author is not a Christian \nherself. Another plus is that each chapter begins with an \noriginal-source quote so that it makes a good starting point for serious \nresearch.", "[ NOTE: talk.origins removed from crossposting, as this had no business\n going there in the first place. ]\n\n\n\n No, but you're not achieving anything either. If you don't want to\nargue the point you're stating, why do you bother stating it?\n\n\n No. Read the (alt.atheism) FAQ to find out why.\n\n\n Well enough; if I feel interested, I might even listen.\n\n\n I won't; the task is impossible, and I don't have to do it in the\nfirst place. Why should I even bother to change or disprove your beliefs?\n\n - Mats \"Strong apatheist?\" Andtbacka\n", "A listmember (D Andrew Killie, I think) wrote, in response to the\nsuggestion that genocide may sometimes be the will of God:\n\n > Any God who works that way is indescribably evil,\n > and unworthy of my worship or faith.\n\nNobuya \"Higgy\" Higashiyama replied (as, in substance, did others):\n\n > Where is your source of moral standards by which you judge God's\n > behavior?\n\nIt is often argued that we have no standing by which to judge God's\nactions. Who is the clay to talk back to the potter? But we find a\ncontrary view in Scripture. When God proposes to destroy the city of\n\n + Suppose that there are some good men in the city.\n + Will you destroy the righteous along with the wicked?\n + Far be it from you, Lord, to do such a thing!\n + Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?\n\nI am told that the Hebrew is actually a bit stronger than this, and\ncan perhaps be better rendered (dynamic equivalence) as\n\n + Shame on you, Lord, if you do such a thing!\n\nThere are those who say that the definition of \"good\" is \"whatever\nGod happens to want.\" But if that is so, then the statement that God\nis good has no meaning. It simply says that God does what He wants.\nThat being the case, no one can either love or obey God because He\nis good. The only motive left for obeying Him is that He is\npowerful. Just as it makes sense to obey a dictator, even when he\ntells you to round up all Jews and exterminate them, because if you\ndefy him you might end up in the gas chamber yourself, so it makes\nsense to obey God, because He has the power to punish you if you\ndon't. This ethical theory I take to be in radical contradiction to\nGenesis 18 and to Christianity in general.\n\nAny theory that makes our moral judgements worthless makes any\nfurther discussion of morality (or of the goodness of God)\nmeaningless. However, it does not follow that our moral judgements\nare always infallible in particular cases, still less our judgements\nin particular cases about the course of action most likely to\nachieve a good result.\n\nWhen I read the Scriptural accounts of the actions of God in\nhistory, those actions often seem to me very different from what I\nmight expect of a God who loves us and desires what is best for us.\nMoreover, leaving the Scriptures aside, and considering the natural\nworld, I find that Nature is often very different from what I might\n\"Those who believe that the Author of Nature is also the Author of\nthe Scriptures must expect to find in the Scriptures the same sort\nof difficulties that they find in Nature.\")\n\nNow, that some such difficulties should exist is not in itself an\nargument against the existence, power, wisdom, and goodness of God.\nOn the contrary, their ABSENCE would be such an argument. Suppose\nthat I am watching Bobby Fisher play chess, and suppose that every\ntime he makes a move, I find myself nodding and saying: \"Good move!\nJust what I was expecting him to do. Same move I would have made if\nI were playing.\" That would be a sign that Fisher is no better a\nchess player than myself. Given that he is better, I expect that at\nleast some of his moves will have me thinking, \"Now, what do suppose\ninduced him to do that?\" or even, \"Boy, that was a real slip -- he's\njust thrown the game away!\" Similarly, if God understands the\nworkings of the universe better than I do, it is to be expected that\nsometimes it will look to me as if He has made a mistake.\n\nOne difference between Fisher at the chessboard and God at the\ncontrols of the universe is that I can see the end of the chess\ngame. If Fisher wins, I revise my earlier inference that it was\ncarelessness that made him lose his queen 23 moves earlier.\nHowever, if he loses, and particularly if I can see that there was a\ntime when he had an opportunity for a checkmate in two moves and did\nnot take it, then I know that he is not as good a player as I had\nthought.\n\nWith God, on the other hand, I shall not in this life see the total\nresult of some of His actions. Therefore, my grounds for judging\nthat I have seen a bad move on His part must always be far shakier\nthan my grounds for making a similar judgement about Fisher.\n\n ***** ***** ***** ***** *****\n\nIn the book of Genesis, we read that Joseph's ten older brothers,\nwho (with good reason) found him insufferable, conspired to sell\nhim into slavery in Egypt. There he eventually became Viceroy, and\nwhen there was a famine in Canaan, he was able to provide for his\nfamily. When his brothers nervously apologized, he told them: \"Do\nnot worry. You meant to do me evil, but God turned it into good.\"\n\n\n The history of the Jews is largely a history of events\n that look like catastrophes that threaten the continued\n survival of the religion, or the people, or both. But,\n amazingly, those events turn out to be the saving of the Jews\n and of Judaism.\n The sale of Joseph by his brothers looked like the breakup\n of the family. But in fact, it ended with a reconciliation of\n the quarrel between them. The famine that drove the family out\n of Canaan looked like a misfortune for them. But in fact, if\n they had stayed in Canaan, they would almost certainly have\n intermarried with the Canaanites and been assimilated into\n their culture. Their oppression by the Egyptians a few\n generations after their arrival in Egypt again looked like a\n disaster. But God used it to bring them out of Egypt, and into\n the Promised Land.\n Here the people built a Temple, and regularly offered\n sacrifices. But the Babylonians captured Jerusalem and Judea,\n destroyed Temple and city and countryside, and deported most of\n the people to Babylon. You might have thought that that would\n be the end of the people and the religion. But it was not.\n Living in Canaan, the people had been under constant danger of\n assimilation. Again and again, they had turned from the\n worship of the LORD to the worship of the Canaanite fertility\n cults, with their ritual prostitution and ritual human\n sacrifice. The Babylonian captivity put a stop to that. Never\n again did the Jews show any interest in polytheism or idolatry.\n Neither the worship of the Canaanites mor that of the\n Babylonians ever again had a foothold among them.\n Nor is that all. Judaism had been in danger of becoming\n simply a system of sacrifices and Temple observances. The only\n prescribed acts of worship consisted of coming to Jerusalem\n every so often and offering a sacrifice. During the Captivity,\n with the Temple gone, the Jews invented the synagogue, a place\n of meeting for reading and study and discussion of the\n Scriptures. They came to realize clearly, what they were in\n danger of forgetting while they continued to live in Judea,\n that God is not simply a local or tribal deity, not just the\n controller of the land of Canaan, or the patron of the Jewish\n people, but the Creator of the world, and the Ruler and Judge\n of all humans everywhere.\n Time passed, and the Babylonian Empire was replaced by\n that of the Persians, and then that of the Greeks, or rather\n the Macedonians. The ruler, Antiochus Epiphanes, was determined\n to stamp out Judaism, and to this end he made the reading and\n the study of the Torah punishable by death. Again, one might\n think that this would be the end of Judaism. But it was not.\n The people met for worship, and instead of reading the Torah\n portion appointed for the day, they would read some passage\n from the prophets that had a similar theme, and then discuss\n that. Before this time, the Torah, the so-called Five Books of\n Moses (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy)\n were the only books read and studied in the synagogue. If it\n had not been for Antiochus, the books of the prophets would\n probably have been forgotten altogether. His hatred for Judaism\n saved them.\n\n [Other examples here omitted for brevity's sake.]\n\n Some of you may remember that Julie Andrews first became\n famous as Eliza Doolittle in the stage production of MY FAIR\n LADY. When Warner Brothers undertook to make a movie of it,\n everyone expected that Julie, who had been so magnificent on\n stage, would play the same role in the movie. Instead, the\n studio decided to go with an established screen star, and cast\n Audrey Hepburn. Julie Andrews was naturally crushed. But she\n later realized that if she had played the screen role, she\n would have been type-cast for life as an Elize Doolittle type.\n It would have been a disaster for her. As it was, Walt Disney\n offered her the role of Mary Poppins, and she won an Oscar for\n it. At the presentation, she stood there, smiling, and looking\n at Walt Disney, she said, \"And now, my special thanks to the\n man who made all this possible -- JACK WARNER!\" It was the most\n memorable line of the evening.\n In a similar spirit, we Jews might thank the men who in\n the providence of God have preserved Judaism, and kept it alive\n to this day, beginning with Joseph's brothers, and continuing\n with two Pharaohs, with Nebuchadnezzar, with Antiochus\n Epiphanes....\n\nAfter the formal meeting had broken up, one woman came up to him\nprivately and said, \"You were talking about the Holocaust, weren't\nyou?\" He answered, \"If that is an example that came to your mind,\nthen you are right, I was talking about it to you. But I would not\ntalk about it to everyone, for not everyone can bear it.\" I assume\nthat he meant that, without the Holocaust, there would have been no\nstate of Israel.\n\nSomeone hearing the rabbi's lecture might leap to the conclusion\nthat God is dependent on the wickedness of men to accomplish His\npurposes -- or at least that the rabbi thought so. He might then go\non to suppose that the wickedness is in fact God's doing -- that He\nstirred up Joseph's brothers to a murderous hate against him, and\nthat when the Israelites were in Egypt, God hardened Pharaoh's\nheart, so that he oppressed the people, and would not let them go.\nAnd this raises questions about how an action can be considered\nwicked and at the same time be considered something that God has\nbrought about.\n\nI suggest another way of looking at it. Consider a sculptor who has\na log of wood from which he proposes to carve a statue. But the log,\ninstead of having a smooth even grain throughout, has a large knot\nthat spoils the appearance of the surface. The sculptor considers\nthe wood for a while, and then carves a statue that features the\nknot, that makes that particular interruption in the grain and color\nof the wood correspond to some feature of the statue, so that\nobservers will say: \"How fortunate the sculptor was in finding a\npiece of wood with a knot like that in just the right place. Its\npresence is the crowning touch, the thing that makes the statue a\ngreat work of art.\" In reality, the knot, far from being what the sculptor was\nlooking for, was a challenge to his skill. If the wood had not\ncontained that flaw, he would still have made a great work of art,\nbut a different one. So, if Joseph's brothers had not sold him, God\nwould still have brought about His purposes for the Jewish people,\nbut He would have done so in another manner. If Judas had not\nbetrayed Jesus, if Caiaphas and his fellow leaders had not rejected\nJesus, but had rather acknowledged Him as the Annointed of God, if\nPilate had followed his conscience rather than his fears and had set\nJesus free, it might appear that there would have been no\nCrucifixion, and therefore no Redemption, and therefore no\nSalvation. Not so. God did not need Judas' sin to redeem us. If\nJudas had done right, then God in Christ would still have reconciled\nthe world to Himself. We do not know how, just as we do not know\nhow Michelangelo would have painted the Sistine Chapel if its\ninterior had instead been shaped like Grand Central Station, and\njust as we do not know how Bobby Fisher would have won his fourth\ngame agianst Spassky if Spassky had refused the exchange of bishops\nand had attacked Fisher's knight instead (don't bother to look up\nthe game in question--I am making up this example, but the point is\nnone the less valid).\n\nThus, we may say both (1) that God used, say, the cowardice of\nPilate to accomplish His purposes, and (2) that the said cowardice\nwas not God's doing, and that Pilate would not have thwarted God's\nplans by behaving justly and courageously.\n\nWhat, then, are we to make of the place where God says to Moses, \"I\nwill harden Pharaoh's heart, so that he will not let the people go\"?\nSome Christians have taken this to mean that Pharaoh was a puppet\nwith God pulling the strings, and that his stubbornness and cruelty\nwere not his own work, but the work of God in him. I suppose rather\nthat what God was telling Moses was something like this: \"If you see\nthat Pharaoh is not willing to let the people go, do not be\ndiscouraged, or suppose that the situation is out of my control. My\npurposes will not be thwarted. If Pharaoh chooses to hear you and\nlet the people go, well and good. If he does not, I will fit his\nresistance into my plans, and fit it so perfectly that future\nhistorians and theologians will suppose that I would have been\nthrown for a loss if Pharaoh had obeyed me.\"\n\nTo return to the question that started this all off. Is it possible\nthat the Serbs, in slaughtering the Moslems of Bosnia, are\ninstruments of God's will?\n First point. What they are doing is wrong, just as what\nJoseph's brothers did was wrong, just as what Judas did was wrong.\nThey intend it for evil. If God somehow brings good out of it, that\ndoes not make them any less subject to just condemnation and\npunishment.\n Second point. Of course, God will bring good out of it. But not\nthe same good that He would have brought if the Serbians had\nrefrained from the sins of robbery and rape and murder. Nor does the\ngood He purposes excuse us from the duty of doing what is right.", "\n\nOn of the attributes of being sacred in this case is that they\nshould not be spoken of in a \"common manner\" or \"trampled under\nfeet\" such as the Lords name is today. The ceremonies are\nperformed in the temple because the temple has been set aside\nas being as sacred/holy/uncommon place. We believe that the \nceremonies can only be interpreted correctly when they\nare viewed with the right spirit- which in this case is in the\ntemple. So from our point of view, when they are brought\nout into the public, they are being trampled under feet,\nbecause of misinterpretations and mocking, and it is therefore\noffensive to us.\n\nPlease do not assume that because of my use of the words\n'we' and 'our' that I'm an official spokesman for the LDS\nchurch. I am merely stating what I believe is the general\nfeeling among us. Others feel free to disagree.\n", "(Peter White) writes\n\nYou've missed on very important passage.\n\n2 Thess. 1:6-10\n For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who\nafflict you, and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when\nthe Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming\nfire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do\nnot obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. And these will pay the penalty of\neternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of\nHis power, when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be\nmarveled at among all who have believed-- for our testimony to you was\nbelieved.\n\nThings to note from this passage. Unbelievers are both those who openly reject\nthe gospel, and those who do not know God. The eternal destruction is the same\nas the eternal hope in 2:16. This distructions primarily emphasize that it is\nseparation from the presence of God. THe context is speaking of the 2nd advent\nwhile 2:1 is speaking of the rapture. Don't confuse the two. \n\nYet we have a far greater discription of hell that we do heaven.\n\n For instance,\n\nIf this was like earthly fire that requires a gas producing substance to\nignite.\nHowever, there seems to be a different type of fire as expressed in the burning\nbush that was not consumed. Also, the Daniel acct. shows that the laws of\nnature can be interupted even with earthly fire.\n\n\nMaybe you don't understand. There will be those who are alive at the end of\nthe millenium, who will walk straight into the GWTJ. Even those who have died\nin their sin will be resurrected, i.e. reunited with their physical body, to\nreceive condemnation.\n\n\nThis is contrary to the teaching of Scripture.\n\n\nTHis is conjecture at best if you are using it to support the \"no physical\nbody\" thesis.\n\n\nThe true awlfulness of hell, is that it is eternal separation from God, after\nhaving seen the glory of His presence at the GWTJ. But whether it was open\nrebellion against the revealed gospel of Christ or if it is not having known\nGOd (not saught Him as He is), then as Paul says, they are without excuss and\nthat every mouth will be stopped. There will be no defense at the judgment\nseat of God. THerefore we understand \"it is appointed unto man once to die, and\nthen comes judgment\" literally. \n\njust because it is horrific, doesn't make it less of a reality. \nit should compel those of us who have the riches of Christ to share it with\nothers", "Hi,\n\nI am new to this newsgroup, and also fairly new to christianity. I was\nraised as a Unitarian and have spent the better part of my life as an\nagnostic, but recently I have developed the firm conviction that the\nChristian message is correct and I have accepted Jesus into my life. I am\nhappy, but I realize I am very ignorant about much of the Bible and\nquite possibly about what Christians should hold as true. This I am trying\nto rectify (by reading the Bible of course), but it would be helpful\nto also read a good interpretation/commentary on the Bible or other\nrelevant aspects of the Christian faith. One of my questions I would\nlike to ask is - Can anyone recommend a good reading list of theological\nworks intended for a lay person?\n\nI have another question I would like to ask. I am not yet affiliated\nwith any one congregation. Aside from matters of taste, what criteria\nshould one use in choosing a church? I don't really know the difference\nbetween the various Protestant denominations.\n\nThanks for reading my post. \n\nSincerely,\n\nSteve Hoskins", "::DATE: Sun, 25 Apr 1993 10:13:30 GMT\n::FROM: Fred Rice \n: > I think you're letting atheist mythology\n\n: Great start. I realize immediately that you are not interested\n: in discussion and are going to thump your babble at me. I would\n: much prefer an answer from Ms Healy, who seems to have a\n: reasonable and reasoned approach to things. Say, aren't you the\n: creationist guy who made a lot of silly statements about\n: evolution some time ago?\n\n: Duh, gee, then we must be talking Christian mythology now. I\n: was hoping to discuss something with a reasonable, logical\n: person, but all you seem to have for your side is a repetition\n: of the same boring mythology I've seen a thousand times before.\n: I am deleting the rest of your remarks, unless I spot something\n: that approaches an answer, because they are merely a repetition\n: of some uninteresting doctrine or other and contain no thought\n: at all.\n\n: I have to congratulate you, though, Bill. You wouldn't\n: know a logical argument if it bit you on the balls. Such\n: a persistent lack of function in the face of repeated\n: attempts to assist you in learning (which I have seen\n: in this forum and others in the past) speaks of a talent\n: that goes well beyond my own, meager abilities. I just don't\n: seem to have that capacity for ignoring outside influences.\n\n: Dean Kaflowitz\n\nDean,\n\nRe-read your comments, do you think that merely characterizing an\nargument is the same as refuting it? Do you think that ad hominum\nattacks are sufficient to make any point other than you disapproval of\nme? Do you have any contribution to make at all?", "\nThat's a very weak argument--due the lack (with regard to critical\nevents) of independent supporting texts.\n\nAs for the dating of the oldest extant texts of the NT.... How would\nyou feel about the US Civil War in a couple of thousand years if the\nonly extant text was written about *now*? Now adjust for a largely\nilliterate population, and one in which every copy of a manuscript is\ndone by hand....\n\n\t--Hal\n", "Here's how I talk to non-Christians who are complaining about Hell.\n\nME:\t\"Do you believe you're going to Heaven?\"\nHIM:\t\"I don't believe in Heaven.\"\nME:\t\"So are you going there?\"\nHIM:\t\"If there was a heaven, I would.\"\nME:\t\"But since there isn't a Heaven, you're not going there, are you?\"\nHIM:\t\"No.\"\n\n The point is that Heaven is based on faith--if you don't believe in heaven,\nthere's no way you're going to be in it.\n Of course, the next step is, \"I don't believe in Hell either, so why will I\nbe there?\" It seems to me that Hell is eternal death and seperation from God.\nMost atheists do believe that when they die they will die forever, and never\nsee God--so they do, in fact, believe that they're going to Hell.\n Hell doesn't have to be worse than earth to be Hell--because it's eternal, \nand it's a lot worse than Heaven. That's the only comparison that matters.", "\n\nWhile I agree with most of Jon says (I deleted those parts, of course), I \nhave serious reservations about this advice. Maintaining a `just \nfriends' level of relationship is much easier said than done. People \nusually end up getting hurt. This is especially likely to happen when \nthey start off with feelings of attraction. \n\nWhen people feel attracted those feelings can cloud their judgement. \nI've had the experience of going quickly from believing that I shouldn't \ndate non-Christians to believing that dating this man would be okay to \nbelieving that premarital sex is fine when people really love each \nother. When the relationship ended my beliefs immediately returned to \ntheir original state. \n\nThis is an especially extreme case because I was young and away from home \nand fellowship. I don't think it would work exactly this way for most \npeople. However, it's important not to underestimate the power of \nfeelings of attraction. ", "I found this little gem, I don't know if anyone has any interest/comments...\n\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nHi everyone,\n I'm a commited Christian that is battling with a problem. I know\nthat romans talks about how we are saved by our faith not our deeds, yet\nhebrews and james say that faith without deeds is useless, saying' You fools,\ndo you still think that just believing is enough?'\n\nNow if someone is fully believing but there life is totally lead by themselves\nand not by God, according to Romans that person is still saved by there faith.\nBut then there is the bit which says that God preferes someone who is cold to\nhim (i.e. doesn't know him - condemned) so a lukewarm Christian someone who\nknows and believes in God but doesn't make any attempt to live by the bible.\n\nNow I am of the opinion that you a saved through faith alone (not what you do)\nas taught in Romans, but how can I square up in my mind the teachings of James\nin conjunction with the lukewarm Christian being 'spat-out'\n\nCan anyone help me, this really bothers me.-- \n\nin Christ,\n\nWill\n\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n--Adam", "Archive-name: atheism/introduction\nAlt-atheism-archive-name: introduction\nLast-modified: 5 April 1993\nVersion: 1.2\n\n-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----\n\n An Introduction to Atheism\n by mathew \n\nThis article attempts to provide a general introduction to atheism. Whilst I\nhave tried to be as neutral as possible regarding contentious issues, you\nshould always remember that this document represents only one viewpoint. I\nwould encourage you to read widely and draw your own conclusions; some\nrelevant books are listed in a companion article.\n\nTo provide a sense of cohesion and progression, I have presented this article\nas an imaginary conversation between an atheist and a theist. All the\nquestions asked by the imaginary theist are questions which have been cropped\nup repeatedly on alt.atheism since the newsgroup was created. Some other\nfrequently asked questions are answered in a companion article.\n\nPlease note that this article is arguably slanted towards answering questions\nposed from a Christian viewpoint. This is because the FAQ files reflect\nquestions which have actually been asked, and it is predominantly Christians\nwho proselytize on alt.atheism.\n\nSo when I talk of religion, I am talking primarily about religions such as\nChristianity, Judaism and Islam, which involve some sort of superhuman divine\nbeing. Much of the discussion will apply to other religions, but some of it\nmay not.\n\n\"What is atheism?\"\n\nAtheism is characterized by an absence of belief in the existence of God.\nSome atheists go further, and believe that God does not exist. The former is\noften referred to as the \"weak atheist\" position, and the latter as \"strong\natheism\".\n\nIt is important to note the difference between these two positions. \"Weak\natheism\" is simple scepticism; disbelief in the existence of God. \"Strong\natheism\" is a positive belief that God does not exist. Please do not\nfall into the trap of assuming that all atheists are \"strong atheists\".\n\nSome atheists believe in the non-existence of all Gods; others limit their\natheism to specific Gods, such as the Christian God, rather than making\nflat-out denials.\n\n\"But isn't disbelieving in God the same thing as believing he doesn't exist?\"\n\nDefinitely not. Disbelief in a proposition means that one does not believe\nit to be true. Not believing that something is true is not equivalent to\nbelieving that it is false; one may simply have no idea whether it is true or\nnot. Which brings us to agnosticism.\n\n\"What is agnosticism then?\"\n\nThe term 'agnosticism' was coined by Professor Huxley at a meeting of the\nMetaphysical Society in 1876. He defined an agnostic as someone who\ndisclaimed (\"strong\") atheism and believed that the ultimate origin of things\nmust be some cause unknown and unknowable.\n\nThus an agnostic is someone who believes that we do not and cannot know for\nsure whether God exists.\n\nWords are slippery things, and language is inexact. Beware of assuming that\nyou can work out someone's philosophical point of view simply from the fact\nthat she calls herself an atheist or an agnostic. For example, many people\nuse agnosticism to mean \"weak atheism\", and use the word \"atheism\" only when\nreferring to \"strong atheism\".\n\nBeware also that because the word \"atheist\" has so many shades of meaning, it\nis very difficult to generalize about atheists. About all you can say for\nsure is that atheists don't believe in God. For example, it certainly isn't\nthe case that all atheists believe that science is the best way to find out\nabout the universe.\n\n\"So what is the philosophical justification or basis for atheism?\"\n\nThere are many philosophical justifications for atheism. To find out why a\nparticular person chooses to be an atheist, it's best to ask her.\n\nMany atheists feel that the idea of God as presented by the major religions\nis essentially self-contradictory, and that it is logically impossible that\nsuch a God could exist. Others are atheists through scepticism, because they\nsee no evidence that God exists.\n\n\"But isn't it impossible to prove the non-existence of something?\"\n\nThere are many counter-examples to such a statement. For example, it is\nquite simple to prove that there does not exist a prime number larger than\nall other prime numbers. Of course, this deals with well-defined objects\nobeying well-defined rules. Whether Gods or universes are similarly\nwell-defined is a matter for debate.\n\nHowever, assuming for the moment that the existence of a God is not provably\nimpossible, there are still subtle reasons for assuming the non-existence of\nGod. If we assume that something does not exist, it is always possible to\nshow that this assumption is invalid by finding a single counter-example.\n\nIf on the other hand we assume that something does exist, and if the thing in\nquestion is not provably impossible, showing that the assumption is invalid\nmay require an exhaustive search of all possible places where such a thing\nmight be found, to show that it isn't there. Such an exhaustive search is\noften impractical or impossible. There is no such problem with largest\nprimes, because we can prove that they don't exist.\n\nTherefore it is generally accepted that we must assume things do not exist\nunless we have evidence that they do. Even theists follow this rule most of\nthe time; they don't believe in unicorns, even though they can't conclusively\nprove that no unicorns exist anywhere.\n\nTo assume that God exists is to make an assumption which probably cannot be\ntested. We cannot make an exhaustive search of everywhere God might be to\nprove that he doesn't exist anywhere. So the sceptical atheist assumes by\ndefault that God does not exist, since that is an assumption we can test.\n\nThose who profess strong atheism usually do not claim that no sort of God\nexists; instead, they generally restrict their claims so as to cover\nvarieties of God described by followers of various religions. So whilst it\nmay be impossible to prove conclusively that no God exists, it may be\npossible to prove that (say) a God as described by a particular religious\nbook does not exist. It may even be possible to prove that no God described\nby any present-day religion exists.\n\nIn practice, believing that no God described by any religion exists is very\nclose to believing that no God exists. However, it is sufficiently different\nthat counter-arguments based on the impossibility of disproving every kind of\nGod are not really applicable.\n\n\"But what if God is essentially non-detectable?\"\n\nIf God interacts with our universe in any way, the effects of his interaction\nmust be measurable. Hence his interaction with our universe must be\ndetectable.\n\nIf God is essentially non-detectable, it must therefore be the case that he\ndoes not interact with our universe in any way. Many atheists would argue\nthat if God does not interact with our universe at all, it is of no\nimportance whether he exists or not.\n\nIf the Bible is to be believed, God was easily detectable by the Israelites.\nSurely he should still be detectable today?\n\nNote that I am not demanding that God interact in a scientifically\nverifiable, physical way. It must surely be possible to perceive some\neffect caused by his presence, though; otherwise, how can I distinguish him\nfrom all the other things that don't exist?\n\n\"OK, you may think there's a philosophical justification for atheism, but\n isn't it still a religious belief?\"\n\nOne of the most common pastimes in philosophical discussion is \"the\nredefinition game\". The cynical view of this game is as follows:\n\nPerson A begins by making a contentious statement. When person B points out\nthat it can't be true, person A gradually re-defines the words he used in the\nstatement until he arrives at something person B is prepared to accept. He\nthen records the statement, along with the fact that person B has agreed to\nit, and continues. Eventually A uses the statement as an \"agreed fact\", but\nuses his original definitions of all the words in it rather than the obscure\nredefinitions originally needed to get B to agree to it. Rather than be seen\nto be apparently inconsistent, B will tend to play along.\n\nThe point of this digression is that the answer to the question \"Isn't\natheism a religious belief?\" depends crucially upon what is meant by\n\"religious\". \"Religion\" is generally characterized by belief in a superhuman\ncontrolling power -- especially in some sort of God -- and by faith and\nworship.\n\n[ It's worth pointing out in passing that some varieties of Buddhism are not\n \"religion\" according to such a definition. ]\n\nAtheism is certainly not a belief in any sort of superhuman power, nor is it\ncategorized by worship in any meaningful sense. Widening the definition of\n\"religious\" to encompass atheism tends to result in many other aspects of\nhuman behaviour suddenly becoming classed as \"religious\" as well -- such as\nscience, politics, and watching TV.\n\n\"OK, so it's not a religion. But surely belief in atheism (or science) is\n still just an act of faith, like religion is?\"\n\nFirstly, it's not entirely clear that sceptical atheism is something one\nactually believes in.\n\nSecondly, it is necessary to adopt a number of core beliefs or assumptions to\nmake some sort of sense out of the sensory data we experience. Most atheists\ntry to adopt as few core beliefs as possible; and even those are subject to\nquestioning if experience throws them into doubt.\n\nScience has a number of core assumptions. For example, it is generally\nassumed that the laws of physics are the same for all observers. These are\nthe sort of core assumptions atheists make. If such basic ideas are called\n\"acts of faith\", then almost everything we know must be said to be based on\nacts of faith, and the term loses its meaning.\n\nFaith is more often used to refer to complete, certain belief in something.\nAccording to such a definition, atheism and science are certainly not acts of\nfaith. Of course, individual atheists or scientists can be as dogmatic as\nreligious followers when claiming that something is \"certain\". This is not a\ngeneral tendency, however; there are many atheists who would be reluctant to\nstate with certainty that the universe exists.\n\nFaith is also used to refer to belief without supporting evidence or proof.\nSceptical atheism certainly doesn't fit that definition, as sceptical atheism\nhas no beliefs. Strong atheism is closer, but still doesn't really match, as\neven the most dogmatic atheist will tend to refer to experimental data (or\nthe lack of it) when asserting that God does not exist.\n\n\"If atheism is not religious, surely it's anti-religious?\"\n\nIt is an unfortunate human tendency to label everyone as either \"for\" or\n\"against\", \"friend\" or \"enemy\". The truth is not so clear-cut.\n\nAtheism is the position that runs logically counter to theism; in that sense,\nit can be said to be \"anti-religion\". However, when religious believers\nspeak of atheists being \"anti-religious\" they usually mean that the atheists\nhave some sort of antipathy or hatred towards theists.\n\nThis categorization of atheists as hostile towards religion is quite unfair.\nAtheist attitudes towards theists in fact cover a broad spectrum.\n\nMost atheists take a \"live and let live\" attitude. Unless questioned, they\nwill not usually mention their atheism, except perhaps to close friends. Of\ncourse, this may be in part because atheism is not \"socially acceptable\" in\nmany countries.\n\nA few atheists are quite anti-religious, and may even try to \"convert\" others\nwhen possible. Historically, such anti-religious atheists have made little\nimpact on society outside the Eastern Bloc countries.\n\n(To digress slightly: the Soviet Union was originally dedicated to separation\nof church and state, just like the USA. Soviet citizens were legally free to\nworship as they wished. The institution of \"state atheism\" came about when\nStalin took control of the Soviet Union and tried to destroy the churches in\norder to gain complete power over the population.)\n\nSome atheists are quite vocal about their beliefs, but only where they see\nreligion encroaching on matters which are not its business -- for example,\nthe government of the USA. Such individuals are usually concerned that\nchurch and state should remain separate.\n\n\"But if you don't allow religion to have a say in the running of the state,\n surely that's the same as state atheism?\"\n\nThe principle of the separation of church and state is that the state shall\nnot legislate concerning matters of religious belief. In particular, it\nmeans not only that the state cannot promote one religion at the expense of\nanother, but also that it cannot promote any belief which is religious in\nnature.\n\nReligions can still have a say in discussion of purely secular matters. For\nexample, religious believers have historically been responsible for\nencouraging many political reforms. Even today, many organizations\ncampaigning for an increase in spending on foreign aid are founded as\nreligious campaigns. So long as they campaign concerning secular matters,\nand so long as they do not discriminate on religious grounds, most atheists\nare quite happy to see them have their say.\n\n\"What about prayer in schools? If there's no God, why do you care if people\n pray?\"\n\nBecause people who do pray are voters and lawmakers, and tend to do things\nthat those who don't pray can't just ignore. Also, Christian prayer in\nschools is intimidating to non-Christians, even if they are told that they\nneed not join in. The diversity of religious and non-religious belief means\nthat it is impossible to formulate a meaningful prayer that will be\nacceptable to all those present at any public event.\n\nAlso, non-prayers tend to have friends and family who pray. It is reasonable\nto care about friends and family wasting their time, even without other\nmotives.\n\n\"You mentioned Christians who campaign for increased foreign aid. What about\n atheists? Why aren't there any atheist charities or hospitals? Don't\n atheists object to the religious charities?\"\n\nThere are many charities without religious purpose that atheists can\ncontribute to. Some atheists contribute to religious charities as well, for\nthe sake of the practical good they do. Some atheists even do voluntary work\nfor charities founded on a theistic basis.\n\nMost atheists seem to feel that atheism isn't worth shouting about in\nconnection with charity. To them, atheism is just a simple, obvious everyday\nmatter, and so is charity. Many feel that it's somewhat cheap, not to say\nself-righteous, to use simple charity as an excuse to plug a particular set\nof religious beliefs.\n\nTo \"weak\" atheists, building a hospital to say \"I do not believe in God\" is a\nrather strange idea; it's rather like holding a party to say \"Today is not my\nbirthday\". Why the fuss? Atheism is rarely evangelical.\n\n\"You said atheism isn't anti-religious. But is it perhaps a backlash against\n one's upbringing, a way of rebelling?\"\n\nPerhaps it is, for some. But many people have parents who do not attempt to\nforce any religious (or atheist) ideas upon them, and many of those people\nchoose to call themselves atheists.\n\nIt's also doubtless the case that some religious people chose religion as a\nbacklash against an atheist upbringing, as a way of being different. On the\nother hand, many people choose religion as a way of conforming to the\nexpectations of others.\n\nOn the whole, we can't conclude much about whether atheism or religion are\nbacklash or conformism; although in general, people have a tendency to go\nalong with a group rather than act or think independently.\n\n\"How do atheists differ from religious people?\"\n\nThey don't believe in God. That's all there is to it.\n\nAtheists may listen to heavy metal -- backwards, even -- or they may prefer a\nVerdi Requiem, even if they know the words. They may wear Hawaiian shirts,\nthey may dress all in black, they may even wear orange robes. (Many\nBuddhists lack a belief in any sort of God.) Some atheists even carry a copy\nof the Bible around -- for arguing against, of course!\n\nWhoever you are, the chances are you have met several atheists without\nrealising it. Atheists are usually unexceptional in behaviour and\nappearance.\n\n\"Unexceptional? But aren't atheists less moral than religious people?\"\n\nThat depends. If you define morality as obedience to God, then of course\natheists are less moral as they don't obey any God. But usually when one\ntalks of morality, one talks of what is acceptable (\"right\") and unacceptable\n(\"wrong\") behaviour within society.\n\nHumans are social animals, and to be maximally successful they must\nco-operate with each other. This is a good enough reason to discourage most\natheists from \"anti-social\" or \"immoral\" behaviour, purely for the purposes\nof self-preservation.\n\nMany atheists behave in a \"moral\" or \"compassionate\" way simply because they\nfeel a natural tendency to empathize with other humans. So why do they care\nwhat happens to others? They don't know, they simply are that way.\n\nNaturally, there are some people who behave \"immorally\" and try to use\natheism to justify their actions. However, there are equally many people who\nbehave \"immorally\" and then try to use religious beliefs to justify their\nactions. For example:\n\n \"Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Jesus Christ\n came into the world to save sinners... But for that very reason, I was\n shown mercy so that in me... Jesus Christ might display His unlimited\n patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive\n eternal life. Now to the king eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God,\n be honor and glory forever and ever.\"\n\nThe above quote is from a statement made to the court on February 17th 1992\nby Jeffrey Dahmer, the notorious cannibal serial killer of Milwaukee,\nWisconsin. It seems that for every atheist mass-murderer, there is a\nreligious mass-murderer. But what of more trivial morality?\n\n A survey conducted by the Roper Organization found that behavior\n deteriorated after \"born again\" experiences. While only 4% of respondents\n said they had driven intoxicated before being \"born again,\" 12% had done\n so after conversion. Similarly, 5% had used illegal drugs before\n conversion, 9% after. Two percent admitted to engaging in illicit sex\n before salvation; 5% after.\n [\"Freethought Today\", September 1991, p. 12.]\n\nSo it seems that at best, religion does not have a monopoly on moral\nbehaviour.\n\n\"Is there such a thing as atheist morality?\"\n\nIf you mean \"Is there such a thing as morality for atheists?\", then the\nanswer is yes, as explained above. Many atheists have ideas about morality\nwhich are at least as strong as those held by religious people.\n\nIf you mean \"Does atheism have a characteristic moral code?\", then the answer\nis no. Atheism by itself does not imply anything much about how a person\nwill behave. Most atheists follow many of the same \"moral rules\" as theists,\nbut for different reasons. Atheists view morality as something created by\nhumans, according to the way humans feel the world 'ought' to work, rather\nthan seeing it as a set of rules decreed by a supernatural being.\n\n\"Then aren't atheists just theists who are denying God?\"\n\nA study by the Freedom From Religion Foundation found that over 90% of the\natheists who responded became atheists because religion did not work for\nthem. They had found that religious beliefs were fundamentally incompatible\nwith what they observed around them.\n\nAtheists are not unbelievers through ignorance or denial; they are\nunbelievers through choice. The vast majority of them have spent time\nstudying one or more religions, sometimes in very great depth. They have\nmade a careful and considered decision to reject religious beliefs.\n\nThis decision may, of course, be an inevitable consequence of that\nindividual's personality. For a naturally sceptical person, the choice\nof atheism is often the only one that makes sense, and hence the only\nchoice that person can honestly make.\n\n\"But don't atheists want to believe in God?\"\n\nAtheists live their lives as though there is nobody watching over them. Many\nof them have no desire to be watched over, no matter how good-natured the\n\"Big Brother\" figure might be.\n\nSome atheists would like to be able to believe in God -- but so what? Should\none believe things merely because one wants them to be true? The risks of\nsuch an approach should be obvious. Atheists often decide that wanting to\nbelieve something is not enough; there must be evidence for the belief.\n\n\"But of course atheists see no evidence for the existence of God -- they are\n unwilling in their souls to see!\"\n\nMany, if not most atheists were previously religious. As has been explained\nabove, the vast majority have seriously considered the possibility that God\nexists. Many atheists have spent time in prayer trying to reach God.\n\nOf course, it is true that some atheists lack an open mind; but assuming that\nall atheists are biased and insincere is offensive and closed-minded.\nComments such as \"Of course God is there, you just aren't looking properly\"\nare likely to be viewed as patronizing.\n\nCertainly, if you wish to engage in philosophical debate with atheists it is\nvital that you give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they are\nbeing sincere if they say that they have searched for God. If you are not\nwilling to believe that they are basically telling the truth, debate is\nfutile.\n\n\"Isn't the whole of life completely pointless to an atheist?\"\n\nMany atheists live a purposeful life. They decide what they think gives\nmeaning to life, and they pursue those goals. They try to make their lives\ncount, not by wishing for eternal life, but by having an influence on other\npeople who will live on. For example, an atheist may dedicate his life to\npolitical reform, in the hope of leaving his mark on history.\n\nIt is a natural human tendency to look for \"meaning\" or \"purpose\" in random\nevents. However, it is by no means obvious that \"life\" is the sort of thing\nthat has a \"meaning\".\n\nTo put it another way, not everything which looks like a question is actually\na sensible thing to ask. Some atheists believe that asking \"What is the\nmeaning of life?\" is as silly as asking \"What is the meaning of a cup of\ncoffee?\". They believe that life has no purpose or meaning, it just is.\n\n\"So how do atheists find comfort in time of danger?\"\n\nThere are many ways of obtaining comfort; from family, friends, or even pets.\nOr on a less spiritual level, from food or drink or TV.\n\nThat may sound rather an empty and vulnerable way to face danger, but so\nwhat? Should individuals believe in things because they are comforting, or\nshould they face reality no matter how harsh it might be?\n\nIn the end, it's a decision for the individual concerned. Most atheists are\nunable to believe something they would not otherwise believe merely because\nit makes them feel comfortable. They put truth before comfort, and consider\nthat if searching for truth sometimes makes them feel unhappy, that's just\nhard luck.\n\n\"Don't atheists worry that they might suddenly be shown to be wrong?\"\n\nThe short answer is \"No, do you?\"\n\nMany atheists have been atheists for years. They have encountered many\narguments and much supposed evidence for the existence of God, but they have\nfound all of it to be invalid or inconclusive.\n\nThousands of years of religious belief haven't resulted in any good proof of\nthe existence of God. Atheists therefore tend to feel that they are unlikely\nto be proved wrong in the immediate future, and they stop worrying about it.\n\n\"So why should theists question their beliefs? Don't the same arguments\n apply?\"\n\nNo, because the beliefs being questioned are not similar. Weak atheism is\nthe sceptical \"default position\" to take; it asserts nothing. Strong atheism\nis a negative belief. Theism is a very strong positive belief.\n\nAtheists sometimes also argue that theists should question their beliefs\nbecause of the very real harm they can cause -- not just to the believers,\nbut to everyone else.\n\n\"What sort of harm?\"\n\nReligion represents a huge financial and work burden on mankind. It's not\njust a matter of religious believers wasting their money on church buildings;\nthink of all the time and effort spent building churches, praying, and so on.\nImagine how that effort could be better spent.\n\nMany theists believe in miracle healing. There have been plenty of instances\nof ill people being \"healed\" by a priest, ceasing to take the medicines\nprescribed to them by doctors, and dying as a result. Some theists have died\nbecause they have refused blood transfusions on religious grounds.\n\nIt is arguable that the Catholic Church's opposition to birth control -- and\ncondoms in particular -- is increasing the problem of overpopulation in many\nthird-world countries and contributing to the spread of AIDS world-wide.\n\nReligious believers have been known to murder their children rather than\nallow their children to become atheists or marry someone of a different\nreligion.\n\n\"Those weren't REAL believers. They just claimed to be believers as some\n sort of excuse.\"\n\nWhat makes a real believer? There are so many One True Religions it's hard\nto tell. Look at Christianity: there are many competing groups, all\nconvinced that they are the only true Christians. Sometimes they even fight\nand kill each other. How is an atheist supposed to decide who's a REAL\nChristian and who isn't, when even the major Christian churches like the\nCatholic Church and the Church of England can't decide amongst themselves?\n\nIn the end, most atheists take a pragmatic view, and decide that anyone who\ncalls himself a Christian, and uses Christian belief or dogma to justify his\nactions, should be considered a Christian. Maybe some of those Christians\nare just perverting Christian teaching for their own ends -- but surely if\nthe Bible can be so readily used to support un-Christian acts it can't be\nmuch of a moral code? If the Bible is the word of God, why couldn't he have\nmade it less easy to misinterpret? And how do you know that your beliefs\naren't a perversion of what your God intended?\n\nIf there is no single unambiguous interpretation of the Bible, then why\nshould an atheist take one interpretation over another just on your say-so?\nSorry, but if someone claims that he believes in Jesus and that he murdered\nothers because Jesus and the Bible told him to do so, we must call him a\nChristian.\n\n\"Obviously those extreme sorts of beliefs should be questioned. But since\n nobody has ever proved that God does not exist, it must be very unlikely\n that more basic religious beliefs, shared by all faiths, are nonsense.\"\n\nThat does not hold, because as was pointed out at the start of this dialogue,\npositive assertions concerning the existence of entities are inherently much\nharder to disprove than negative ones. Nobody has ever proved that unicorns\ndon't exist, but that doesn't make it unlikely that they are myths.\n\nIt is therefore much more valid to hold a negative assertion by default than\nit is to hold a positive assertion by default. Of course, \"weak\" atheists\nwould argue that asserting nothing is better still.\n\n\"Well, if atheism's so great, why are there so many theists?\"\n\nUnfortunately, the popularity of a belief has little to do with how \"correct\"\nit is, or whether it \"works\"; consider how many people believe in astrology,\ngraphology, and other pseudo-sciences.\n\nMany atheists feel that it is simply a human weakness to want to believe in\ngods. Certainly in many primitive human societies, religion allows the\npeople to deal with phenomena that they do not adequately understand.\n\nOf course, there's more to religion than that. In the industrialized world,\nwe find people believing in religious explanations of phenomena even when\nthere are perfectly adequate natural explanations. Religion may have started\nas a means of attempting to explain the world, but nowadays it serves other\npurposes as well.\n\n\"But so many cultures have developed religions. Surely that must say\n something?\"\n\nNot really. Most religions are only superficially similar; for example, it's\nworth remembering that religions such as Buddhism and Taoism lack any sort of\nconcept of God in the Christian sense.\n\nOf course, most religions are quick to denounce competing religions, so it's\nrather odd to use one religion to try and justify another.\n\n\"What about all the famous scientists and philosophers who have concluded\n that God exists?\"\n\nFor every scientist or philosopher who believes in a god, there is one who\ndoes not. Besides, as has already been pointed out, the truth of a belief is\nnot determined by how many people believe it. Also, it is important to\nrealize that atheists do not view famous scientists or philosophers in the\nsame way that theists view their religious leaders.\n\nA famous scientist is only human; she may be an expert in some fields, but\nwhen she talks about other matters her words carry no special weight. Many\nrespected scientists have made themselves look foolish by speaking on\nsubjects which lie outside their fields of expertise.\n\n\"So are you really saying that widespread belief in religion indicates\n nothing?\"\n\nNot entirely. It certainly indicates that the religion in question has\nproperties which have helped it so spread so far.\n\nThe theory of memetics talks of \"memes\" -- sets of ideas which can propagate\nthemselves between human minds, by analogy with genes. Some atheists view\nreligions as sets of particularly successful parasitic memes, which spread by\nencouraging their hosts to convert others. Some memes avoid destruction by\ndiscouraging believers from questioning doctrine, or by using peer pressure\nto keep one-time believers from admitting that they were mistaken. Some\nreligious memes even encourage their hosts to destroy hosts controlled by\nother memes.\n\nOf course, in the memetic view there is no particular virtue associated with\nsuccessful propagation of a meme. Religion is not a good thing because of\nthe number of people who believe it, any more than a disease is a good thing\nbecause of the number of people who have caught it.\n\n\"Even if religion is not entirely true, at least it puts across important\n messages. What are the fundamental messages of atheism?\"\n\nThere are many important ideas atheists promote. The following are just a\nfew of them; don't be surprised to see ideas which are also present in some\nreligions.\n\n There is more to moral behaviour than mindlessly following rules.\n\n Be especially sceptical of positive claims.\n\n If you want your life to have some sort of meaning, it's up to you to\n find it.\n\n Search for what is true, even if it makes you uncomfortable.\n\n Make the most of your life, as it's probably the only one you'll have.\n\n It's no good relying on some external power to change you; you must change\n yourself.\n\n Just because something's popular doesn't mean it's good.\n\n If you must assume something, assume something it's easy to test.\n\n Don't believe things just because you want them to be true.\n\nand finally (and most importantly):\n\n All beliefs should be open to question.\n\nThanks for taking the time to read this article.\n\n\nmathew\n\n-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----\nVersion: 2.2\n\niQCVAgUBK8AjRXzXN+VrOblFAQFSbwP+MHePY4g7ge8Mo5wpsivX+kHYYxMErFAO\n7ltVtMVTu66Nz6sBbPw9QkbjArbY/S2sZ9NF5htdii0R6SsEyPl0R6/9bV9okE/q\nnihqnzXE8pGvLt7tlez4EoeHZjXLEFrdEyPVayT54yQqGb4HARbOEHDcrTe2atmP\nq0Z4hSSPpAU=\n=q2V5\n-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----", "\n\tAs I don't know this book, I will use your heresay.\n\n\n\tIt depends on how he defines God. The way I understand the meaning\nof that term preclues it being used in a useful way in science. Ideas drawn\nfrom an understanding that God is supernatural precludes us from forming\nscientific assertions that can be falsified, that is, where we can decide\nthat they are true or false within the terms of we use and useful observations\ndrawn from them.\n\n\tSome religionists have an interest in bluring the definitions within\nscience to make them more reconcilable, and especially subserviant in a basic\nway, to religious dogma. This pursuit always fails.\n\n\n\tReconciliation of science with religion involves circumventing the\ntendancy to claim that either pursuit can gain absolute or certian knowledge,\nor that the domain of truth in each is fundementally limited in some way. It\ngererally confurs the element of uncertainty and limitations to human knowledge\nwhile allowing for the different concerns of these separate pursuits. Science\nand religion ask different questions which have imperfect and provisional\nanswers, at best. Science is distinctly limited in where it can ask meaningful\nquestions. More questions can be posed than it can answer. At the basis of\nsacred language is the place where words fail us and mere assertions disolve\nin contradiction.", " So Rick, why not read the Bible for yourself? It is written in plain\n english. Decide for yourself. ", "Which Version of the Bible do you consider to be the most\naccurate translation?\n", "\n > Paul repeatedly talks about the \"thorn\" in his side. Some think\n > it refers to lust, others pride, but who knows? Whatever the\n > thorn was, apparently it was not compatible with Christianity,\n > yet does that make his epistles any less?\n\nPaul mentions his \"thorn\" (SKOLOPS, actually a sharp stake) in 2\nCorinthians 12:7-9\n\n + And to keep me from being too elated by the abundance of\n + revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of\n + Satan, to harass me, to keep me from being too elated. Three\n + times I besought the Lord about this, that it should leave me;\n + but he said to me, \"My grace is sufficient for you, for my\n + power is made perfectr in weakness.\"\n\nHe does not explain what it was, but it need not have been a moral\nproblem. One guess is that Paul had a disorder of the eyes. He\nordinarily dictated his letters, and then added a personal note and\nhis signature. At the end of the letter to the Galatians, he says,\n\"See, I am writing in large letters with my own hand,\" or else, \"See\nwhat a long letter I have written with my own hand.\" If the former\ntranslation is adopted, it seems that Paul could not write in the\nsmall script of a practiced writer, but needed to make his letters\nlarger, and this suggests eye problems. Again, he says to the\nGalatians (4:13-15),\n\n + You know that it was because of a bodily ailment that I preached\n + the gospel to you at first; and although my condition was a trial\n + to you, you did not scorn or despise me, but received me as an\n + angel of God.... For I bear you witness that, if possible, you\n + would have plucked out your eyes and given them to me.\n\nPerhaps this last line means simply, \"You would have done anything\nfor me, not withholding your most precious possessions (your eyes).\"\nBut in that case, we would expect some wording like, \"If I had\nneeded them.\" \"If it were possible\" sounds as though the bodily\nailment was connected with his eyes.\n\nWilliam Barclay, in his volume on Acts, makes a more specific\nsuggestion. Before Paul preached in the highlands of Galatia, he\nhad been preaching in the coastal areas of Asia Minor. If he had had\na malarial attack while there, a doctor would have advised him to\nleave the low country and head for the hills. Malaria might well\nhave given him both severe headaches and blurred vision.", "\n\nDarius> Let me suggest this. Maybe those who believe in the eternal\nDarius> hell theory should provide all the biblical evidence they can\nDarius> find for it. Stay away from human theories, and only take\nDarius> into account references in the bible.\n\nLike most topics, we've been through this one before, but here is\na good start: Matthew 25:46:\n\n\"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous\nto eternal life.\"\n\nI may post more on this subject when I have more time. In any\ncase, it is clear that the fate of the damned is most unpleasant,\nand to be avoided.\n\nDavid Wagner\t\t\t\"Sola Scriptura!\"\na confessional Lutheran", "[text deleted]\n\nI wish that you had followed this thread before jumping to conclusions.\nI haven't seen anybody write that AIDS was a *punishment* for certain\ntypes of sin (this includes Mark Ashley who you were responding to\nhere). I myself wrote that when you don't do things God's way that\ncurses will come on you and others. Although one definition of 'curse'\nis 'retribution', I only meant 'harm or misfortune' when I used the\nword. Because God loves us he has told us the best way to live in his\nBible. God doesn't cause curses, he warns us of them.\n\nKevin Davis wrote (a while ago):\n\nThe Bible makes it clear that we all equally deserve death (which is\nmuch worse than AIDS) -- we have all hurt God with our sin.\n\nPaul Conditt reveals his feelings:\n\nThe first issue you bring up is your anger. It is \"obvious\"ly wrong to\nbe angry (Gal 5:19-20) for any reason, especially *extremely* angry\nwhich is on par with hatred. Jesus has every reason to be angry at us\nfor putting him on the cross with our sin, yet his prayer was \"forgive\nthem Father, they know not what they do.\" Knowing how forgiving Jesus\nhas been with me calls me to be more forgiving with everyone out of\nlove for Him. Please don't give in to anger, it will only cause\nfoolish quarrels and more bad feelings.\n\nIt's okay if you read something that bothers you, but you need to\naddress it in a loving way. If right now, I felt like someone out\nthere was saying that God punishes gay or sexually immoral people with\nAIDS because they deserve punishment that others don't then I would\nframe a response something like this:\n\n\"It makes me feel very sad for someone to believe that AIDS, which is\nsimply a harmful disease not so unlike any other, is God's punishment\nfor people who have committed certain sins. God loves all of his\nchildren equally and rejoices when a single one comes back to him. We\nwill all be judged after we die, but until then we all have the\nopportunity to accept God's grace by earnestly seeking after him with\nall of our hearts, believing the gospel's testimony, repenting of our\nsin, confessing that Jesus is Lord at baptism, and living a new life\nfor him.\n Let us not judge someone to be eternally condemned. God's arm is not\nto short to save. He will do anything he can to move a hardened heart\nor a misled person. He works for the good of all men. Even through\nthe worst of situations, he has set the times and places for all men\nthat they may perhaps reach out and find him.\"\n\nThe second issue you bring up is seeing people rationalize their fears\nof people with AIDS. Fortunately, what you describe as seeing is\nactually misperceiving. You have been missing the points made in the\nearlier posts and reacting in anger to attitudes that haven't been\nexpressed. I know that its sometimes hard to discount your\nperceptions, but please try to be open-minded.\n\nYou are quite correct in saying that we should reach out to all people\nbecause they all need Jesus. This is what my brothers and sisters and\nI do on a daily basis. If you would like to send me the name of the\ncity and state you live in, I will find and get you in touch with some\nbrothers who have AIDS or know people with AIDS and live nearby you so\nthat you can see the loving attitudes for yourself.\n\nThe third issue you bring up is the importance of how some individual\ncontracted AIDS. How someone gets AIDS is only relevant to their\nsalvation in that there may be repetence involved.\n\nThe important point to be made, however, is that not listening to God's\ncommands (or advice or warnings), i.e. sinning, causes harm or\nmisfortune to yourself and others. For this reason, a good way to\nprevent the misfortune of AIDS, which can be transmitted in sinful ways,\nis to listen to God's advice and have sex only with your wife or\nhusband.\n\nI hope that you are feeling better now, Paul.\n\nLove,", "He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will\nbe my son. ", "\nIf you agree that good works have a role somewhere, you will \ngenerally find yourself in one of two camps: \n\n (1) Faith + Works --> Salvation\nor (2) Faith --> Salvation + Works\n\nEither (1) works are required for salvation, or (2) faith will \ninevitably result in good works. \n\nI am also of the opinion that salvation is by faith alone, based on\nEphesians 2 and Romans 3:21-31. I also conclude that James 2, when \nread in context, is teaching bullet (2) above. When James speaks of \njustification, I would claim that he is not speaking of God declaring\nthe believing sinner innocent in His sight (Paul's use of the word). \nInstead he is speaking of the sinner's profession of faith being \n\"justified\" or \"proven\" by the display of good works. Also according \nto James 2, the abscence of such works is evidence for a \"dead\" or \n\"useless\" faith which fails to save.\n\nJames 2 is not a problem for the doctrine of salvation by faith if it\nis teaching (2). Works would have their place, not as merit toward \nsalvation, but as evidence of true faith. \n\nRegards,\n\n---\nDave Weaver | \"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to\nweaver@chdasic.sps.mot.com| gain what he cannot lose.\" - Jim Elliot (1949)\n\n[There are of course a number of other possibilities. The Reformers\nbelieved\n\n salvation --> faith --> works\n\nSome of us suspect that the three things are tied up together in such a way\nthat no diagram of this form can do it justice.", "[...lots of stuff about intellectual errors deleted...]\n\nThis is cute, but I see no statement telling me why your church is the true \nchurch. I do presume that you know or at least believe that yours is true. \nAttempting to ream my faith without replacing it with something \"better\" is \na real good way to loose a person completely from Christ.\n\nThis is the greatest reason I see that these attacks are not motivated by \nlove. They only seek to destroy there is no building or replacing of belief. \nThis is not something Christ did. He guided and instructed He didn't \nseek to destroy the faith He found, He redirected it. \n\nThis is what I see when people say they \"love\" . \nAnd I have to laugh at the irony. ", "responds to a lot of grief given to him\na.k.a. \"The Sagemaster\"\n[ . . .]\n\nMost of Scotty's followup *was* irrelevant to the original question,\nbut this is not unusual, as threads often quickly evolve away from\nthe original topic. What I could not understand is why Jim spent so\nmuch time responding to what he regarded as irrelevancies.\n\n[ . . . ]\n[ . . . ]\n\nWell, I guess hypothetical Adam was \"the majority of mankind\"\nseeing how he was the ONLY man at the time.\n\n\nI understand what you mean by \"collective,\" but I think it is an\ninsane perversion of justice. What sort of judge would punish the\ndescendants for a crime committed by their ancestor?\n\n\nWell, I must admit that you probably read a.a. more often than I read\nthe Bible these days. But you missed a couple of good followups to\nyour post. I'm sending you a personal copy of my followup which I\nhope you will respond to publically in a.a.", " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\n\na) I think that he has a rather witty .sig file. It sums up a great\n deal of atheistic thought (IMO) in one simple sentence.\nb) Atheism isn't an \"other religion\".\n", "Why is the NT tossed out as info on Jesus. I realize it is normally tossed\nout because it contains miracles, but what are the other reasons?\n\nMAC\n--\n****************************************************************\n Michael A. Cobb\n \"...and I won't raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois\n class to pay for my programs.\" Champaign-Urbana\n -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu", "\nSurprise, surprise. I sure didn't lose any sleep over it, and I live there.\n\n\nSuppose someone said that he was sure that he would return from death,\nin glory and power, flying in the clouds with the host of heaven,soon, within\nthe lifetimes of those then standing with him - and 2000 years went by without\nany such event. [He also asserted, so they say, himself to be God.]\n\n2 questions:\n\n\t1) Is that one of those \"false prophecies\" you were talking about?\n\t2) Does that make the speaker a false prophet?\n\n\nUhh, Has it occurred to you that there is no way to know any of these\nthings, for certain, \"without the tiniest shadow of a doubt\"? That people\nwho thought they did have also been deluded?\n\nThose of us who believe in actually being able to _CHECK_ our opinions\nhave an out - we can check against some external reality. Those who\nassert that beliefs entertained without evidence, or even despite evidence\nhave a special virtue (ie. \"faith\") are out of luck -- and this is the\nresult.\n\n\nYou want to demonstrate Christian honesty? Great.\nStart with the prophecy above - what can we conclude about the speaker?", "\n: The same works for the horrors of history. To claim that Christianity\n: had little to do with the Crusades or the Inquisition is to deny the\n: awesome power that comes from faith in an absolute. What it seems you\n: are doing twisting the reasonable statement that religion was never\n: the solitary cause of any evil into the unreasonable statement that\n: religion has had no evil impacts on history. That is absurd.\n\nScott,\n\nUntil this paragraph I would willingly amend my earlier statements,\nsince your point(s) are well made and generally accurate. This last\npart though slips into hyperbole. Since I've discussed my objections to\nsuch generalizations before, I really don't feel I need to do it\nagain. If you haven't seen those posts, ask Maddi, she saves\neverything I write.", "I read somewhere that Kurt Goedel argued that the ontological argument\nfor God's existence was logically reasonable (or something to that\neffect).\n\nDoes anyone know if this is true, and have a citation?\n\nThanks.", "\nIt's not scriptural, but comes from the patristic age, I think:\nsomething about \"amare errantem, interficere errorem\", which sounds\nmore like \"love the errant, slay the error\". No doubt someone else \nwill know in particular who minted the phrase. If I had to guess, I'd\nblame :-) St Augustine, who seems to have had a gift for aphorism.\n", "ites:\nI realized that my generalizations would probably have problems\nunder scrutiny from various Asian points of view. They need to be \ndiscussed in detail, indeed. But for the purposes of this newsgroup \nand thread thus far and in this newsgroup, I risked oversimpli-\nfication. My main purpose was to emphasize that I was not coming\nfrom a Buddhist or Hindu point of view. As you observed, the\nmain context is that of Christianity. But by all means, add comments\nand corrections as you find them.\n\nI wrote a longer reply addressing some of your points, but decided\nto not post it. Perhaps it would be more appropriate for soc.religion.\neastern. Instead I just add the following couple of items about karma \nand reincarnation as I see the matter from an anthroposophical and \na Christian point of view.\n\n1. Karma is not simple reward and punishment dealt out by a \"judging\n deity\".\n\n2. Reincarnation is not the same as being born again.\n\n3. Reincarnation is not the same as the resurrection of the body.\n\n4. Reincarnation and karma do not contradict the fundamental teachings\n of Christianity about God, the fall, the being. incarnation, death,\n and resurrection of Christ, his coming again, sin, grace, forgiveness, \n salvation, and the last judgement.\n\n\nOrigen's work was mostly lost. He was not anathematized, to my knowledge, \nbut his writing comes down largely in fragments and quotations from enemies.\nPerhaps someone else can comment on Origen. I don't know if there\nis a specific statement about reincarnation from him, but from what I do\nknow about him he probably did hold to the teaching in one form or another.\n\nI don't know too much about the history of the idea of reincarnation in\nthe Church. However, I heard an interesting story about Pope John Paul II\nfrom an astronomer who teaches at the University of Cracow. The Pope likes\nto go to Poland for a scientific conference every couple of years so he\ncan relax and talk Polish to friends and fellow countrymen. My acquaintance,\nan anthroposophist, related the fact that Woitila knew about Steiner and\nAnthroposophy from his early days. Before he became a priest he was an\nactor in a dramatic company in Cracow whose leader was a pupil of Steiner\nand based his acting and directing methods on Steiner's indications. Part\nof the work was the study of the basic works of anthroposophy. Well,\ngoing to this conference with him a few years ago, the astronomer and another\nPolish anthroposophist thought they would ask the Pope what he thought about\nAnthroposophy. They chickened out at the last minute, but one of them did ask\nhim what he thought about reincarnation. The Pope smiled and said, \n\"Actually there have been quite a few good Catholics who believed in \nreincarnation,\" and he proceeded to name several from the earliest times\nto modern times. Then he changed the subject. My Polish friend did not\nsay whether Origen was among those he mentioned.\n\nGerry Palo (73237.2006@compuserve.com) ", "\nThe \"so sacred it's secret\" explanation is a bit misleading. While\nthere is a profound reverence for the temple endowment, there is no\ninjunction against discussing the ceremony itself in public. But\nsince public discussion is often irreverent, most Mormons would rather\nkeep silent than have a cherished practice maligned.\n\nBut there are certain elements of the ceremony which participants\nexplicitly covenant not to reveal except in conjunction with the\nceremony itself.\n\n\nThere are other interpretations to Christian history in this matter.\nOne must recall that most of what we know about the Gnostics was\nwritten by their enemies. Eusebius claims that Jesus imparted secret\ninformation to Peter, James, and John after His resurrection, and that\nthose apostles transmitted that information to the rest of the Twelve\n(Eusebius, _Historia Ecclesiastica_ II 1:3-4).\n\nIrenaeus claims this information was passed on to the priests and\nbishops (_Against Heresies_ IV 33:8), but Eusebius disagrees. He\nclaims the secret ceremonies of the Christian church perished with the\napostles. Interestingly enough, Eusebius refers to the groups which\nwe today call Gnostics as promulgators of a false gnosis (Eusebius,\nop. cit., III, 32:7-8). His gripe was not that thay professed *a*\ngnosis, but that they had the *wrong* one.\n\nWritings dealing with Jesus' post-resurrection teachings emphasize\nsecrecy -- not so much a concealment as a policy of not teaching\ncertain things indiscriminately. In one story, Simon Magus opens a\ndialog with Peter on the nature of God. Peter's response is \"You seem\nto me not to know what a father and a God is: But I could tell you\nboth whence souls are, and when and how they were made; but it is not\npermitted to me now to disclose these things to you\" (_Clementine\nRecognitions_ II, 60). If any one theme underlies the _Recognitions_\nit is the idea that certain doctrines are not to be idly taught, but\ncan be had after a certain level of spiritual maturity is reached.\n\nNow one can approach this and other such evidence in many ways. I\ndon't intend that everyone interpret Christian history as I do, but I\nbelieve that evidence exists (favorably interpreted, of course) of\nearly Christian rites analogous to those practiced by Mormons today.\n\n\nBut if Judaism and Christianity had such ceremonies, would you expect\nto read about them in public documents? One can search the Book of\nMormon and other Mormon scripture and find almost no information on\ntemple worship. Yes, you could establish that Mormons worship in\ntemples, but you would probably be hard pressed to characterize that\nworship. On that basis, can we conclude that the Bible explains *all*\npractices which might have taken place, and that absence of such\ndescriptions proves they did not exist?\n\nMormon scholar Dr. Hugh Nibley offers us a list of scriptures from\nwhich I have taken a few:\n\n1. \"It is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of\nheaven, but to them it is not given\" (Matt. 13:11).\n\n2. \"All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given\"\n(Matt. 19:11).\n\n3. \"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them\nnow\" (John 16:12).\n\n4. \"The time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs,\nbut I shall shew you plainly of the Father\" (John 16:25).\n\n5. \"... unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter\"\n(1 Cor. 3:1-2).\n\n6. \"Many things ... I would not write with paper and ink; but I ...\ncome unto you and speak face to face\" (2 Jn. 1:12).\n\n(Nibley, _Since Cumorah_, pp. 92-94)\n\nAgain, these can also be interpreted many different ways. I believe\nthey serve to show that not all doctrines which could have been taught\nwere actually taught openly.\n\n\nHistorically, Joseph Smith had been adiministering the temple\nendowment ceremony for nearly a year before joining the Freemasons.\nThere is diary evidence which supports a claim that the rite did not\nchange after Smith became a Mason. It can be argued that Smith had\nample exposure to Masonic proceedings through the burlesque of his\ntime and through his brother Hyrum (a Mason), though no specific\nconnection has yet been established.\n\nMy conversations with Masons (with respect to temple rite\ntranscriptions which have appeared on the net) have led me to believe\nthat the connection from Masonry to Mormonism is fairly tenuous. As\nour moderator notes, most of what was similar was removed in the\nrecent revisions to the temple ceremony. I believe that critics who\ncharge that Mormon rites were lifted from Freemasonry do not have\nadequate knowledge of the rites in question.\n-- \n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n Jay Windley * University of Utah * Salt Lake City\n jwindley@asylum.cs.utah.edu", "\nThe same way that any theory is proven false. You examine the predicitions\nthat the theory makes, and try to observe them. If you don't, or if you\nobserve things that the theory predicts wouldn't happen, then you have some \nevidence against the theory. If the theory can't be modified to \nincorporate the new observations, then you say that it is false.\n\nFor example, people used to believe that the earth had been created\n10,000 years ago. But, as evidence showed that predictions from this \ntheory were not true, it was abandoned.", "\nJesus did and so do I.\n\nPeace be with you,", "\n[stuff deleted for brevity]\n\n\nYour very starting point is wrong. Christianity is not based on following\na moral standard. \"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith...\nNOT BY WORKS so that no man may boast.\" (Eph. 2:7-8) You say that\nyou know the Bible well, and can recognize (do you mean recite?) many\npassages from memory. That could very well be so. However, it looks like\nthere are a few more passages that you should pay attention to. (Titus 3:5\nand James 2:10 are among them.)\n\nObedience to the moral law is imporant. However, it is supposed to be the\nresult of turning your life over to Christ and becoming a Christian. It is\nby no means the starting point.\n", "\n\nYou are right, Michael.\n\nIn John 3:5, Jesus says, \"Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the\nkingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.\" That's really what\nHe said, and He meant it. That verse is the definition of baptism. I don't\nhave the law book in front of me, but there is a canon law that urges\nparents to baptize their children within one week of birth for the very\nreason that you state.\n\n", "As per various threads on science and creationism, I've started dabbling into a\nbook called Christianity and the Nature of Science by JP Moreland. A question\nthat I had come from one of his comments. He stated that God is not \nnecessarily a religious term, but could be used as other scientific terms that\ngive explanation for events or theories, without being a proven scientific \nfact. I think I got his point -- I can quote the section if I'm being vague. \nThe examples he gave were quarks and continental plates. Are there \nexplanations of science or parts of theories that are not measurable in and of\nthemselves, or can everything be quantified, measured, tested, etc.? \n\nMAC\n--\n****************************************************************\n Michael A. Cobb\n \"...and I won't raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois\n class to pay for my programs.\" Champaign-Urbana\n -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu", "\n > I'm leaning... SIRACH... is more directly referenced by JAMES\n > than JOB or RUTH is... in any NT verse I've seen.\n\nIt would help if you mentioned chapter and verse from SIRACH and\nfrom JAMES.\n\nJob 5:13 (\"He taketh the wise in their craftiness\") seems to be\nquoted in 1 Corinthians 3:19.\n\nJames 5:11 (\"You have heard of the patience of Job\"), while not a\nquote, implies that James and his listeners are familiar with a\nstory of a man named Job who exhibited exemplary patience. It is\npossible that the story they know is not that found in the Hebrew\nBible, but rather another similar and related story. (One has the\nsame problem with direct quotes.)\n\nAgain, Matthew 1:5 (\"Boaz begat Obed of Ruth\") tells us that Matthew\nknew a story about a woman named Ruth who married a man called Boaz\nand became the ancestor of David. Since Ruth is not mentioned in\nthe OT outside the Book of Ruth, it seems likely that Matthew was\nfamiliar with the book and respected it, and thought Ruth important\nenough to be one of the few women mentioned in the genealogy.\n\nReferences like this do not prove that the NT writer considered his\nOT source inspired or inerrant or canonical. But neither do direct\nquotes.", "\nI have a hard time understanding this attitude.\n\nIf the gospels are the least bit accurate, then there can be little\ndoubt that Jesus belived hell was a reality.\n\nAs a teacher, what would be the wise and loving thing to do if people\nin your audience were headed there? To warn them! It would, however, \nbe rather cruel and/or sadistic to believe that such a place exists \nand then remain quiet about it. \n\nThe only scenario I can envision in which dimished respect would be\njustified is if Jesus knew there was no such place as hell, and spoke\nabout it anyway, just to scare people. Unless you would accuse Jesus\nof this, I would encourage you to reconsider what a loving response \nis when you perceive someone to be in danger. \n", ": \n: BUT, to say you're an atheist is to suggest you have PROOF there is NO GOD.\n: To be a politically-correct skeptic, better to go with agnostic, like me! :)\n:\n\nAs a self-proclaimed atheist my position is that I _believe_ that there is\nno god. I don't claim to have any proof. I interpret the agnostic position \nas having no beliefs about god's existence.\n", "\nDidn't Paul write that if the Resurrection is not true, we are the\nbiggest fools of all? However, whether you believe in Christ or not,\nHis teachings (e.g. love your brotherman as yourself), even if only \nfollowed at a secular level, could do a great deal to alleviate some of \nthe problems we see today in the world. Even when I was a rabid atheist \nI couldn't deny that.", "\n\n\nSurely it was intended as wit.\n\nBy the way, which \"atheist cause\" were you referring to, Bill?\n\n", "...\n\n\nSeems to me if you learned to differentiate between illusion and\nreality on your own you wouldn't need to rely on doctrines that\nneed to be updated. My experience of Christianity (25+ years) is\nthat most Christians seek answers from clergymen who have little\nor no direct experience of spiritual matters, and that most of\nthese questions can be answered by simple introspection. Most\npeople suspect that they cannot trust their senses, but few take\nthe next step to figure out that they can trust themselves. Not to\nget too esoteric, but it seems that most religions, Christianity\nincluded, are founded by particularly intuitive people who understand\nthis.\n\n(stuff deleted)\n\n\nAnd what if the original poster, Pixie, is never \"converted?\"\nDoes it make sense that she (or I, or the majority of humanity\nfor that matter) would go to hell for eternity, as many \nChristians believe? It makes more sense to me that rather\nthan be converted to a centuries-old doctrine that holds no\nlife for her, that she simply continue to decide for herself\nwhat is best. \n\n--------------------------------------------", "\n\n\n\nIf I am not mistaken, the Jewish family names Cohen, Kahn, etc.\nare considered to be legitimate indicators of descent from Aaron.\nThe family names Levi, Levene, etc. are considered to be legitimate\nindicators of descent from Levi. The main legal issue is the purification\nof the priesthood, which is supposed to involve finding the ashes of\nof the red heifer last used for this purpose 2000 years ago.\n_______________________________________________________________________________", "Did that FAQ ever got modified to re-define strong atheists as not those who\nassert the nonexistence of God, but as those who assert that they BELIEVE in \nthe nonexistence of God? There was a thread on this earlier, but I didn't get\nthe outcome...\n\n-- Adam \"No Nickname\" Cooper\n\n", "DN> I think I took on this 'liar, lunatic, or the real thing'\nDN> the last time. Or was it the time before? Anyway, let\nDN> somebody else have a turn. I can't debate it with a\nDN> straight face. Or perhaps for something completely\nDN> different we could just ridicule him or gather up all the\nDN> posts from the last two times we did this and email them to\nDN> him. As an aside, can you believe that somebody actually\nDN> got a book published about this? Must have been a vanity\nDN> press.\n\nI would recomend to anyone out there to visit your local Christian bookstore\nand become aware of the stuff they sell.\tQuite\ninteresting. Most of the stuff is far from intelectual. (About the level of\nChick pamphelets...) If it is a common fundie bookstore, it should have at\nleast one section about how you should hate Wiccans, Pagans, Catholics,\nMormons, rock musicians, and anyone else who is not as fanatical as them. \n(Hate for the \"Love of God(tm)\"!) It is even more interesting watching the\npeople who frequent such places. Very scary people. They hear voices from\n\"God\" telling them whatever they want to hear. (If they were not Christians,\nmost of them would be locked away. Maybe this is why Federal money was\nreduced to Mental institutions by the reagan administration...\tHad to get\ntheir religious leaders out...)\n\n\"Where would Christianity be if Jesus got eight to fifteen years, with time\noff for good behavior?\"\n\t New York State Senator James H. Donovan on Capitol Punishment\n\n Alan", "\n\n\n\nEither A: God exists, or B: He doesn't. We have two choices, either\n1: Believe in God, or 2: Don't believe in God. If A is true, then 2\nbrings eternal damnation, whereas 1 brings eternal life. If B is\ntrue, then 1 has minor inconvenience compared with 2. Thus, it is\nrational to believe in God.\n\nThis has numerous flaws, covered in the FAQ for alt.atheism, amongst\nother places.\n\n\n\nDisillusionment strikes me as an excellent reason for stopping\nbelieving in something.", "\n\n\t\"Thinking if I could see, I would believe. Then someone said", "\n\nThis is one of the differences between OT prophecy and NT prophecy. In the\nNT, it is expected that when believers gather,\n - people will prophesy\n - the prophecy must be judged (1 Cor 14:29)\nThere is nothing about killing someone who makes a mistake.\n\n\nScripture is scripture; there is no \"gift of scripture\". And I don't know\nabout you, but I know that _I_ have made mistakes while filled with the\nspirit. If you don't give grace to allow people to make mistakes, they\nwill never grow in the use of the spiritual gifts!\n\nWhen we minister in my small group, I encourage people to speak out any\nimpressions or images they think might be from the Lord. Only by trying\nwill they know whether they were right or wrong -- and in either case,\nthey'll have a better handle on it the next time.\n\nDidn't you fall when you were learning to ride a bicycle? But you kept on\ntrying, and you learned both from your failures and your successes.\nSpiritual gifts are no different -- you get better with experience.\n\n\nThe canon of Scripture is complete. Does this mean that God no longer\nspeaks? I have heard his voice -- not audibly (though some have), but\nclearly nonetheless. Is what I heard equivalent to Scripture? No. I have\nnever heard contemporary prophets claim that what they receive from the\nLord is on the same level as Scripture; on the contrary, those who are\nmature obey the Scriptures by submitting their prophecies to fellow\nbelievers for judgement. And the most reliable yardstick for judging\nprophecies is, certainly, the Scriptures themselves. The canon is closed\n-- but God is not silent!\n\n\nDoes it matter what it is called? The question is not how to label it, but\nhow to receive it. Words of knowledge, incidentally, are similar to\nprophecy (and sometimes the two overlap), but generally it is supernatural\nknowledge of some fact that could not be known otherwise.", "\n\n\nWhen the Quran uses the word *din* it means way of individual thinking, behaving,\ncommunal order and protocols based on a set of beliefs. This is often\ninterpreted as the much weaker term religion. \n\nThe atheists are not mentioned in the Quran along with Jews,\nMushriqin, Christians, etc. because the latter are all din. To have a\ndin you need a set of beliefs, assumptions, etc, to forma a social\ncode. For example the Marxist have those, such as History, Conflict,\netc. That they do not put idols (sometimes they did) to represent\nthose assuptions does not mean they are any different from the other\nMushriq, or roughly polytheists. \n\nThere cannot be social Atheism, because when there is a community,\nthat community needs common ideas or standard beliefs to coordinate \nthe society. When they inscribe assumptions, say Nation, or \"Progress is \nthe natural consequence of Human activity\" or \"parlamentarian\ndemocracy is doubtlessly the best way of government\", however \nthey individually insist they do not have gods, from the Quranic point\nof view they do. Therefore by definition, atheism does not exist. \n\"We are a atheist society\" in fact means \"we reject the din other than\nours\". \n\nAtheism can only exist when people reject all the idols/gods/dogmas/\nsuppositions/.. of the society that they part, and in that case that\nis a personal deviation of belief, and Quran tells about such\ndeviations and disbelief. But as I mentioned, from a Quranic point of\nlooking at things, there is no Atheism in the macro level. \n\nI think it took more than one minute.", "Does anyone belong to or know any facts about the\n Christian Reformed Church?", "\n: >EVER HEAR OF\n: >BAPTISM AT BIRTH? If that isn't preying on the young, I don't know what\n: >is...\n: >\n: RB> \n: RB> No, that's praying on the young. Preying on the young comes\n: RB> later, when the bright eyed little altar boy finds out what the\n: RB> priest really wears under that chasible.\n\nDoes this statement further the atheist cause in some way, surely it's\nnot intended as wit ...", "\n\nTerms are being used in a loaded way here.\n\n\"Logical proof\" is an extremely messy thing to apply to real\nlife. If you think otherwise, try to construct a proof that\nyesterday happened. Obviously it did; anyone old enough to be\nreading this was there for it and remembers that it happened.\nBut *proof*? A proof starts with axioms and goes somewhere.\nYou need axioms to talk about logical proof. You can say that\nyou remember yesterday, and that you take as axiom that anything\nyou clearly remember happened. I could counterclaim that you\nhallucinated the whole thing.\n\nTo talk about proofs of historical events, you have to relax the\nterms a bit. You can show evidences, not proofs. Evidences of the\nresurrected Jesus exist. Proofs do not.", " \n(Deletion)\n \nNo it in the way it is usually used. In my view, you are saying here that\ndriving a car requires faith that the car drives.\n \nFor me it is a conclusion, and I have no more faith in it than I have in the\npremises and the argument used.\n \n \n \nNo, that's a word game. The term god is used in a different way usually.\nWhen you use a different definition it is your thing, but until it is\ncommonly accepted you would have to say the way I define god is ... and\nthat does not exist, it is existence itself, so I say it does not exist.\n \nInterestingly, there are those who say that \"existence exists\" is one of\nthe indubitable statements possible.\n \nFurther, saying god is existence is either a waste of time, existence is\nalready used and there is no need to replace it by god, or you are implying\nmore with it, in which case your definition and your argument so far\nare incomplete, making it a fallacy.\n \n \n(Deletion)\n(Deletion)\n \nWhere does that follow? Aren't observations based on the assumption\nthat something exists?\n \nAnd wouldn't you say there is a level of definition that the assumption\n\"god is\" is meaningful. If not, I would reject that concept anyway.", "\nDear Defiant (or Unfaithful or Pixie):\n\nI will take up the challenge to reply, as I am a theist.\n\nThe foundation for faith in God is reason, without which the existence\nof God could not be proven. That His existence can be proven by reason\nis indisputable (cf. my short treatise, \"Traditional Proofs for the \nExistence of God,\" and Summa Theologica).\n\nNow, given that God exists, and that His existence can be proven by reason,\nI assert that His commands must be followed blindly, although in our fallen\ncondition we must always have some measure of doubt about our faith. Why?\n\nBecause God is the First Cause of all things, the First Mover of matter,\nthe Independent Thing that requires nothing else for its existence, the\nMeasure of all that is perfect, and the essential Being who gives order\nto the universe (logos).\n\nI next assert that God is all good. If this is so, then that which is\ncontrary to the will of God is evil; i.e., the absence of the good. And,\nsince God can never contradict Himself, then by His promise of a Savior\nas early as the Protoevangelium of Genesis 3:5, God instructs that because\na human (Adam) was first responsible for man's alienation from the Source\nof all good, a man would be required to act to restore the friendship.\nThus God became incarnate in the person of the Messiah.\n\nNow this Messiah claimed that He is the Truth (John 14:6). If this claim\nis true, then we are bound by reason to follow Him, who is truth incarnate.\n\nYou next seem to have a problem with authority. Have you tried the United\nStates Marine Corps yet? I can tell you first-hand that it is an excellent\ninstructor in authority. If you have not yet had the privilege, I will\nreply that the authority which is Truth Incarnate may never be questioned,\nand thus must be followed blindly. One may NOT deny the truth. For\nexample, when the proverbial apple fell on Isaac Newton's head, he could\nhave denied that it happened, but he did not. The laws of physics must\nbe obeyed whether a human likes them or not. They are true. \n\nTherefore, the Authority which is Truth may not be denied.\n\nQED\n \n-- \nboundary", "\n\nThe problem you see here is that some Christians claim things about\nthe Bible which they don't actually believe or practice. I've known\nall sorts of Christians, ranging from the trendiest of liberals to\nthe fire-breathing fundamentalists, and although many on the \nconservative side of the Christian faith do claim that the Bible is\na (perhaps *the*) source of absolute truth, I don't know of anyone\nwho treats it as anything other than a valuable part of a living tradition.\nWhile I am not a Roman Catholic, I believe this is close to the official\nposition of the RC church (perhaps an RC would like to comment).\n\nThe particular practice you refer to will usually be explained in\nterms of the social context of the time. You would think the fact \nthat the conservatives seem to have to break out the tophat-and-cane \nand give you some big song-and-dance routine about why this \n(other passages as well) aren't directly applicable today would \nshow them that what they claim about the Bible and what they \nactually practice are two different things, but mostly it doens't.\n\nWhile this thread is supposed to be about the arrogance of Christians,\nI would suggest that some of the problem is really hypocrasy, in this\ncase, making claims about the Bible which the claimants don't actually\nput into practice. But if we step back from the name-calling and\nlook at what people are attempting to say, we see that they are trying\nto express very concisely the unique place the Bible holds within the\nChristian faith. So when people use such words or phrases as \"Word of\nGod\", \"inerrant\", \"infallibale\", \"The Manufacturer's Handbook\", \"The\nonly rule of faith and practice in the church today\" to describe the\nBible, we should try to hear what they are saying and not just look at\nthe mere words they use. Some of the above descriptions are demostratably\nfalse and others are self-contradictory, but in my experience people are\ngenerally pretty good at picking out the intention of the speaker even\nwhen the speaker's words are at variance with their intentions. A Biblical\nexample is from the garden of Eden where God asks \"Where are you?\" and Adam\nexplains that he was naked and afraid and hid himself. If Adam had\nanswered God's words he would have said something like \"I'm here in this\ntree.\" The problem seems to arise when Christians insist that these\nwords are indeed accurate reflections of their beleif. Most people\nhave not made a determined effort to work out their own understanding of\nthe place of the Bible within their own faith and so rely on the phrases\nand explanations that others use.\n\nI hope this helps.\n--\n ___\nBill Rea (o o)\n-------------------------------------------------------------------w--U--w---", "\n\nPhew! That takes a load off. I don't want to live forever. I wish\nmost Christians held this view. You can't walk across campus in\nspring without being assailed by fire-and-brimstone preachers. I\nreally think the metaphor should be limited, at least with respect to\nteaching our children. It's criminal to put these ideas into a young\nand trusting mind. Besides, why not rely on the positive aspects of\nyour religion to win their faith?\n \n-Tim ", "\n\n\n# I hope I gave you a fairly solid answer to this one: I simply don't agree\n# with the embodied version of a Satan who is a separate creation or a force.\n\n\n\n# And there are quite physical descriptions of Heaven and Hell in the\n# Holy Qur'an, the Bible, etc. There have been times in the spiritual\n# and intellectual evolution of the modern human when these physical\n# descriptions of Heaven, Hell, and Satan were taken quite literally\n# and that *worked* for the time. As I mentioned in the Tradition\n# cited above, for example, it was sufficient in the absence of a theory\n# about germs and disease spread by worms to simply describe the \"evil\"\n# which was passed to a consumer of spoiled food as \"satanic.\"\n\n Which begs the question: if Satan in this case is\n metaphorical, how can you be certain Allah is not\n the same way?\n\n# The bottom line here, however, is that describing a spiritual plane\n# in human language is something like describing \"color\" to a person\n# who has been blind from birth. You may want to read the book\n# FLATLAND (if you haven't already) or THE DRAGON'S EGG. The first\n# is intended as a light hearted description of a mathematical con-\n# cept...\n\n[some deleted for space saving]\n\n# When language fails because it cannot be used to adequately describe\n# another dimension which cannot be experienced by the speakers, then\n# such conventions as metaphor, allegory, and the like come to be\n# necessary. The \"unseen\" is described in terms which have reference`\n# and meaning for the reader/listener. But, like all models, a compro-\n# mise must be made when speaking metaphorically: clarity and directness\n# of meaning, equivalence of perception, and the like are all\n# crippled. But what else can you do?\n\n This is why I asked the above. How would you then\n know God exists as a spirit or being rather than\n just being metaphorical? I mean, it's okay to say\n \"well, Satan is just metaphorical,\" but then you\n have to justify this belief AND justify that God is\n not some metaphor for something else.\n\n I say this because there are many, many instances of\n Satan described as a being (such as the tormentor in \n the Old Testament book of Job, or the temptor in the\n New Testament Gospels). In the same way, God too is\n described as a being (or spirit.) How am I to know\n one is metaphorical and not the other.\n\n Further, belief in God isn't a bar to evil. Let's\n consider the case of Satanists: even if Satan were\n metaphorical, the Satanist would have to believe\n in God to justify this belief. Again, we have a \n case where someone does believe in God, but by\n religious standards, they are \"evil.\" If Bobby\n does see this, let him address this question also.\n\n[deleted some more on \"metaphor\"]\n\n\nStephen\n\n _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ * Atheist\n _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ * Libertarian\n _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ * Pro-individuality\n _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ * Pro-responsibility\n_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Jr. * and all that jazz...\n\n", "\nIt might be interesting for folk to know that the Church of Scotland\n(also a Presbyterian church) managed to \"agree to disagree\" over\nwomen's ordination for 25 years. The reasoning was that congregations\nare free to call whoever they wish, and that Ministers and Sessions\nchoose elders. If a congregation did not wish to have a woman, they\nwere not obliged to, and if a Session did not wish to, they could not\nbe forced to. (Note that the who issue of freedom to call on the part\nof the Congregation is VERY important here - this year is the 150th\nAnnivarsary of the Disruption, where the church split on that very\nissue, they didn't get back together for almost 80 years).\n\nA couple of years ago on the 25 anniversary of the allowing of womens\nordination the position was changed - so that, in theory, all\nministers and elders must recognise that women can be ordained. In\ntheory, a minister who refused to ordain a woman to his Session, or\nrefused to work with a woman minister in Presbytery, could be\ndisciplined. In practice this has not happened, and I believe it is\nunlikely to happen. My personal view is that the new legislation was\na mistake, and that the permissive (but not prescriptive) legislation\nworked very well. \n\nWe are going to start going round the homosexual debate at next years\nassembly. At this years, a motion was put to ban the blessing of\nsame-sex couples (after an Edinburgh minister did so). Our Panel on\nDoctrine is currently looking at marriage, and will report next year -\nthe matter will be considered and debated then.\n\nHope this is interesting", "\n\nThere were many injustices in the middle ages. And this is truely sad.\nI would hate to see a day when churches put people to death or torchured\nthem for practicing homosexuality, or any other crime. The church is not\ncalled to take over the governments of the world. It may be that homosexuals\ntreated cruelly today, but that does not mean that we should teach \nChristians to practice homosexual immorality. Do you think that we should\nalso teach Christians to practice divination and channelling because\nthe witches in the middle ages were persecuted.\n\n\n\nAnd you accuse me of judging? When did you look into my heart and see\nif I have love. I have been writing that we should not teach Christians\nto practice homosexual immorality, and you pretend to have divine knowledge\nto look into my heart. I can't say that I love homosexuals as I should-\nI can't say that I love my neighbor as I should either. I don't know\nvery many homosexuals as it is. \n\nBut Jesus loves homosexuals, just as He loves everyone else. If His love\nwere conditional, I not know Him at all. Yes. We should show love to \nhomosexuals, but it is not love to encourage brothers in the church to \nstumble and continue in their sin. That is a very damaging and dangerous \nthing.\n\n\nThat is slander. I could just as easily say that NAMBLA has been able\nto implement legislation to make child molesting easier because of\nthe tearing down of societies morality due to people accepting homosexuality\nas normal, and that this is what you are embracing. I do believe\nthat homosexual sex is immoral, that does not mean I endorse using violence\nagainst them. There is a problem of hatred in the church. But there\nis also the problem of what has been called \"unsanctified mercy.\"\nMany in the conservative churches have seen the moral breakdown in \nthis country and the storm on the horizon, and have gotten militant in \nthe flesh. This is truely sad. Yet others in other churches have \nembraced immorality in society, and have pointed to the carnality in the\nconservative churches to justify their actions. \n\n\nCertainly we should not use a bullwhip to drive people from Jesus.\nBut we shouldn't water down the gospel to draw people in. Jesus didn't\ngo out of His way to show only what might be considered positive aspects\nto draw people in. He told one man to sell all He had. He told\nanother not to say good bye to His family. His words were hard at times.\nWe should present people with the cost of the tower before we allow them\nto begin construction. many people have already been innoculated to the\ngospel.\n\nLink Hudson.\n\n\n", " Due to a discussion on this group some time ago, the theists would\n more likely take an Asimov quote out of context and paint him as\n the biggest Bible thumpin', God fearin', atheist hatin' christian\n you ever laid eyes on. Right up there with Einstein.\n\n\n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ \n\nBob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM \n\nThey said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,\nand sank Manhattan out at sea.", "\n[deleted] \n\nI am glad that I am not an atheist. It seems tragic that some people \nchoose a meaningless existence. How terrible to go on living only \nbecause one fears death more than life. I feel so sorry for Eric and \nyet any attempts to share my joy in life with him would be considered as \nfurther evidence of the infectious nature of Christianity. \n\nAs a Christian I am free to be a human person. I think, love, choose, \nand create. I will live forever with God.\n\nChrist is not a kind of drug. Drugs are a replacement for Christ. \nThose who have an empty spot in the God-shaped hole in their hearts must \ndo something to ease the pain. This is why the most effective \nsubstance-abuse recovery programs involve meeting peoples' spiritual \nneeds.\n\nThank you, Eric for your post. It has helped me to appreciate how much \nGod has blessed me. I hope that you will someday have a more joy-filled \nand abundant life.", "\nI think that if someone often has immoral dreams, like lustful dreams, \nor dreams where you commit acts of violence, etc. etc. it may be a sign \nthat he has something sinful in his heart. It may be the Holy Spirit's\nway of allowing the sinfulness that is in us to come to light so that\nwe can pray about it and have it removed. Generally, if one has a \npure heart, and sets his mind on things that are holy, he will be holy\neven when he dreams.\n\nDreams also can be from the Lord. Joseph and Nebucadnezzar are two examples\nof people in the Bible who received dreams from the Lord. \n\nRegarding out of body experiences, this is something that we have to be\ncareful with. What is called an OOBE can be spiritual in nature, especially\nif what one saw is the same as an experience witnessed by someone else.\nChristians should certainly avoid any occult activity that would generate\nan out of body experience. Some things that might be called an OOBE\nmight actually be from the Lord. Paul wrote of what might of been an OOBE.\nIn II Corinthians 12, he wrote of a spiritual experience of being caught\nup into the third heaven. Is an OOBE truely an OOBE? Does one really\nleave his body, or is he just seeing an image being shown to him by a\nspirit, be it a demon or the Holy Spirit? I don't think it matters\nthat much. Paul could not tell. \n\nBe that as it may, we should be careful not to open ourselves up to Satan\nto experience OOBE's. We should not meditate and pretend we are in a \nplace until our spirits apparently float there. This is dangerous. If\nGod wants to gice us what seems like an OOBE, then He can do that of His\nown sovereign will. In the Bible, most often it seems that prophets are\njust taken up by God's sovereign will, and not because they are seeking\nan OOBE. John was in the Spirit praying on the Lord's day when he was\ncaught up in the visions he received. Ezekial was talking with some\nJewish leaders when he was caught up into the visions of God one\ntime. If God wants to take one of us up into a vision, he can do it.\nPeople should be careful not to open themselves up to evil spirits\nfor the sake of a few thrills.", "Hi,\n\nI don't know much about Bible. Could you tell me the relations of\nChristians with non-Christians in Bible? How should be The relations of\nchristian nations with each other and the relations of Christian nations\nwith other nations who are not Christians?\n\nThe other question is about the concept of religion in Bible. Does the\nreligion of God include and necessitate any law to be extracted from\nBible or is the religion only a belief and nothing to do with the\ngovernment sides? If for example, any government or a nation is one of\nthe wrongdoings according to Bible, how should they be treated? \n\nIs there any statement in Bible saying that Bible is a guide for every\naspects of life? \n\nThank you.", "\n From: \"Phil G. Fraering\" \n\n > Finally: this isn't the Bronze Age, [..]\n > please try to remember that there are more human activities than\n > those practiced by the Warrior Caste, the Farming Caste, and the\n > Priesthood.\n\n Right, the Profiting Caste is blessed by God, and may \n freely blare its presence in the evening twilight ..\n\nThe Priesthood has never quite forgiven\nthe merchants (aka Profiting Caste [sic])\nfor their rise to power, has it?\n\n;-)", "#In article <1r3tqo$ook@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>\n# \n#>#>|>#>#Theism is strongly correlated with irrational belief in absolutes. Irrational\n#>#>|>#>#belief in absolutes is strongly correlated with fanatism.\n#>#\n#>#(deletion)\n#>#\n#>#>|Theism is correlated with fanaticism. I have neither said that all fanatism\n#>#>|is caused by theism nor that all theism leads to fanatism. The point is,\n#>#>|theism increases the chance of becoming a fanatic. One could of course\n#>#>|argue that would be fanatics tend towards theism (for example), but I just\n#>#>|have to loook at the times in history when theism was the dominant ideology\n#>#>|to invalidate that conclusion that that is the basic mechanism behind it.\n#>#>\n#>#>IMO, the influence of Stalin, or for that matter, Ayn Rand, invalidates your\n#>#>assumption that theism is the factor to be considered.\n#>#\n#>#Bogus. I just said that theism is not the only factor for fanatism.\n#>#The point is that theism is *a* factor.\n#>\n#>That's your claim; now back it up. I consider your argument as useful\n#>as the following: Belief is strongly correlated with fanaticism. Therefore\n#>belief is *a* factor in fanaticism. True, and utterly useless. (Note, this\n#>is *any* belief, not belief in Gods)\n#>\n# \n#Tiring to say the least. I have backed it up, read the first statement.\n\nI have read it. Conspicuous by its absence is any evidence or point.\n\n# \n#The latter is the fallacy of the wrong analogy. Saying someone believes\n#something is hardly an information about the person at all. Saying someone\n#is a theist holds much more information. Further, the correlation between\n#theists and fanatism is higher than that between belief at all and fanatism\n#because of the special features of theistic belief.\n\nTruth by blatant assertion. Evidence?\n# \n# \n#>#>Gullibility,\n#>#>blind obedience to authority, lack of scepticism, and so on, are all more\n#>#>reliable indicators. And the really dangerous people - the sources of\n#>#>fanaticism - are often none of these things. They are cynical manipulators\n#>#>of the gullible, who know precisely what they are doing.\n#>#\n#>#That's a claim you have to support. Please note that especially in the\n#>#field of theism, the leaders believe what they say.\n#>\n#>If you believe that, you're incredibly naive.\n#>\n# \n#You, Frank O'Dwyer, are living in a dream world. I wonder if there is any\n#base of discussion left after such a statement. As a matter of fact, I think\n#you are ignorant of human nature. Even when one starts with something one does\n#not believe, one gets easily fooled into actually believing what one says.\n# \n#To give you the benefit of the doubt, prove your statement.\n\nThe onus of proof is on you, sunshine. What makes you think that\ntheist leaders believe what they say? Especially when they say\none thing and do another, or say one thing closely followed by its\nopposite? The practice is not restricted to theism, but it's there\nfor anyone to see. It's almost an epidemic in this country.\n\nJust for instance, if it is harder for a camel to pass thru' the eye\nof a needle, why is the Catholic church such a wealthy land-owner? Why\nare there churches to the square inch in my country?\n# \n#>#>Now, *some*\n#>#>brands of theism, and more precisely *some* theists, do tend to fanaticism,\n#>#>I grant you. To tar all theists with this brush is bigotry, not a reasoned\n#>#>argument - and it reads to me like a warm-up for censorship and restriction\n#>#>of religious freedom. Ever read Animal Farm?\n#>#>\n#>#That's a straw man. And as usually in discussions with you one has to\n#>#repeat it: Read what I have written above: not every theism leads to\n#>#fanatism, and not all fanatism is caused by theism. The point is,\n#>#there is a correlation, and it comes from innate features of theism.\n#>\n#>No, some of it comes from features which *some* theism has in common\n#>with *some* fanaticism. Your last statement simply isn't implied by\n#>what you say before, because you're trying to sneak in \"innate features\n#>of [all] theism\". The word you're groping for is \"some\".\n#>\n# \n#Bogus again. Not all theism as is is fanatic. However, the rest already\n#gives backup for the statement about the correlation about fanatism and\n#theism. And further, the specialty of other theistic beliefs allows them\n#to switch to fanatism easily. It takes just a nifty improvement in the\n#theology.\n\nTruth by blatant assertion. \n# \n# \n#>#Gullibility, by the way, is one of them.\n#>\n#>No shit, Sherlock. So why not talk about gullibility instead of theism,\n#>since it seems a whole lot more relevant to the case you have, as opposed\n#>to the case you are trying to make?\n#>\n# \n#Because there is more about theism that the attraction to gullible people\n#causing the correlation. And the whole discussion started that way by the\n#statement that theism is meaningfully correlated to fanatism, which you\n#challenged.\n\nIndeed I did. As I recall, I asked for evidence. What is the correlation\nof which you speak? \n# \n# \n#>#And to say that I am going to forbid religion is another of your straw\n#>#men. Interesting that you have nothing better to offer.\n#>\n#>I said it reads like a warm up to that. That's because it's an irrational\n#>and bogus tirade, and has no other use than creating a nice Them/Us\n#>split in the minds of excitable people such as are to be found on either\n#>side of church walls.\n#>\n# \n#Blah blah blah. I am quite well aware that giving everyone their rights\n#protects me better from fanatics than the other way round.\n\nOf course, other people are always fanatics, never oneself. Your\nwish to slur all theists seems pretty fanatical to me.\n# \n#It is quite nice to see that you are actually implying a connection between\n#that argument and the rise of fanatism. So far, it is just another of your\n#assertions.\n\nSo? You can do it.\n# \n# \n#>#>|>(2) Define \"irrational belief\". e.g., is it rational to believe that\n#>#>|> reason is always useful?\n#>#>|>\n#>#>|\n#>#>|Irrational belief is belief that is not based upon reason. The latter has\n#>#>|been discussed for a long time with Charley Wingate. One point is that\n#>#>|the beliefs violate reason often, and another that a process that does\n#>#>|not lend itself to rational analysis does not contain reliable information.\n#>#>\n#>#>Well, there is a glaring paradox here: an argument that reason is useful\n#>#>based on reason would be circular, and argument not based on reason would\n#>#>be irrational. Which is it?\n#>#>\n#>#That's bogus. Self reference is not circular. And since the evaluation of\n#>#usefulness is possible within rational systems, it is allowed.\n#>\n#>O.K., it's oval. It's still begging the question, however. And though\n#>that certainly is allowed, it's not rational. And you claiming to be\n#>rational and all.\n#>\n# \n#Another of your assertions. No proof, no evidence, just claims.\n\nHey - I learned it from you. Did I do good?\n# \n# \n#>At the risk of repeating myself, and hearing \"we had that before\" [we\n#>didn't hear a _refutation_ before, so we're back. Deal with it] :\n#>you can't use reason to demonstrate that reason is useful. Someone\n#>who thinks reason is crap won't buy it, you see.\n#>\n# \n#That is unusually weak even for you. The latter implies that my proof\n#depends on their opinion. Somehow who does not accept that there are\n#triangles won't accept Pythagoras. Wow, that's an incredible insight.\n#I don't have to prove them wrong in their opinion. It is possible to\n#show that their systems leave out useful information respectively claims\n#unreliable or even absurd statements to be information.\n\nTotally circular, and totally useless.\n# \n#Their wish to believe makes them believe. Things are judges by their appeal,\n#and not by their information. It makes you feel good when you believe that\n#may be good for them, but it contains zillions of possible pitfalls. From\n#belief despite contrary evidence to the bogus proofs they attempt.\n\nTruth by blatant assertion. I've seen as many bogus proofs of the \nnon-existence of gods as I have of their existence.\n\n# \n#Rational systems, by the way, does not mean that every data has to come from\n#logical analysis, the point is that the evaluation of the data does not\n#contradict logic. It easily follows that such a system does not allows to\n#evaluate if its rational in itself. Yes, it is possible to evaluate that\n#it is rational in a system that is not rational by the fallacies of that\n#system, but since the validity of the axioms is agreed upon, that has as\n#little impact as the possibility of a demon ala Descartes.\n\nThis just doesn't parse, sorry.\n# \n#So far it just a matter of consistency. I use ratiional arguments to show\n#that my system is consistent or that theirs isn't. The evaluation of the\n\nNor this.\n#predictions does not need rationality. It does not contradict, however.\n# \n# \n#>#Your argument is as silly as proving mathematical statements needs mathematics\n#>#and mathematics are therfore circular.\n#>\n#>Anybody else think Godel was silly?\n#>\n# \n#Stream of consciousness typing? What is that supposed to mean?\n# \n# \n#>#>The first part of the second statement contains no information, because\n#>#>you don't say what \"the beliefs\" are. If \"the beliefs\" are strong theism\n#>#>and/or strong atheism, then your statement is not in general true. The\n#>#>second part of your sentence is patently false - counterexample: an\n#>#>axiomatic datum does not lend itself to rational analysis, but is\n#>#>assumed to contain reliable information regardless of what process is\n#>#>used to obtain it.\n#>#>\n#>#\n#>#I've been speaking of religious systems with contradictory definitions\n#>#of god here.\n#>#\n#>#An axiomatic datum lends itself to rational analysis, what you say here\n#>#is a an often refuted fallacy. Have a look at the discussion of the\n#>#axiom of choice. And further, one can evaluate axioms in larger systems\n#>#out of which they are usually derived. \"I exist\" is derived, if you want\n#>#it that way.\n#>#\n#>#Further, one can test the consistency and so on of a set of axioms.\n#>#\n#>#what is it you are trying to say?\n#>\n#>That at some point, people always wind up saying \"this datum is reliable\"\n#>for no particular reason at all. Example: \"I am not dreaming\".\n#>\n# \n#Nope. There is evidence for it. The trick is that the choice of an axiomatic\n#basis of a system is difficult, because the possibilities are interwoven.\n#One therefore chooses that with the least assumptions or with assumptions\n#that are necessary to get information out of the system anyway.\n\nI'd like to see this alleged evidence.\n# \n#One does not need to define axioms in order to define an evaluation method\n#for usefulness, the foundation is laid by how one feels at all (that's not\n#how one feels about it).\n\nI see. You have no irrational beliefs. But then, fanatics never do, do\nthey?\n\n# \n#>#>|Compared the evidence theists have for their claims to the strength of\n#>#>|their demands makes the whole thing not only irrational but antirational.\n#>#>\n#>#>I can't agree with this until you are specific - *which* theism? To\n#>#>say that all theism is necessarily antirational requires a proof which\n#>#>I suspect you do not have.\n#>#>\n#>#\n#>#Using the traditonal definition of gods. Personal, supernatural entities\n#>#with objective effects on this world. Usually connected to morals and/or\n#>#the way the world works.\n#>\n#>IMO, any belief about such gods is necessarily irrational. That does\n#>not mean that people who hold them are in principle opposed to the exercise of\n#>intelligence. Some atheists are also scientists, for example.\n#>\n# \n#They don't use theism when doing science. Or it wouldn't be science. Please\n#note that subjective data lend themselves to a scientific treatment as well.\n#They just prohibit formulating them as objective statements.\n\nErgo, nothing is objective. Fair enough.\n# \n# \n#>#>|The affinity to fanatism is easily seen. It has to be true because I believe\n#>#>|it is nothing more than a work hypothesis. However, the beliefs say they are\n#>#>|more than a work hypothesis.\n#>#>\n#>#>I don't understand this. Can you formalise your argument?\n#>#\n#>#Person A believes system B becuase it sounds so nice. That does not make\n#>#B true, it is at best a work hypothesis. However, the content of B is that\n#>#it is true AND that it is more than a work hypothesis. Testing or evaluating\n#>#evidence for or against it therefore dismissed because B (already believed)\n#>#says it is wronG/ a waste of time/ not possible. Depending on the further\n#>#contents of B Amalekites/Idolaters/Protestants are to be killed, this can\n#>#have interesting effects.\n#>\n#>Peculiar definition of interesting, but sure. Now show that a belief\n#>in gods entails the further contents of which you speak. Why aren't my\n#>catholic neighbours out killing the protestants, for example? Maybe they\n#>don't believe in it. Maybe it's the conjunction of \"B asserts B\" and\n#>\"jail/kill dissenters\" that is important, and the belief in gods is\n#>entirely irrelevant. It certainly seems so to me, but then I have no\n#>axe to grind here.\n#>\n# \n#The example with your neighbours is a fallacy. That *your* neighbours don't\n#says little about others. And there were times when exactly that happened.\n\nNope, it's not a fallacy. It just doesn't go to the correlation you\nwish to see.\n# \n#And tell me, when it is not irrelevant, why are such statements about\n#Amalekites and Idolaters in the Holy Books? Please note that one could\n#edit them out when they are not relevant anymore. Because gods don't err?\n#What does that say about that message?\n\nExcuse me - THE Holy Books?\n# \n#And how come we had theists saying genocides ordered by god are ok. A god\n#is the easiest way to excuse anything, and therefore highly attracting to\n#fanatics. Not to mention the effect interpretation by these fanatics can\n#have on the rest of the believers. Happens again and again and again.\n\nA god is neither the easiest way to excuse anything, nor the only way.\n\n", "Greetings,\n\nProbably a tired old horse, but... maybe with a slightly different\ntwist. I wanted to know if there are any good English-language texts\nfor learning ancient Hebrew, and how these compare with German\neducational texts qualitywise, if anybody has an idea. I can't figure\nout if I should buy one here for later study or wait until I get back to\nthe U.S.\n\nSomething I find interesting about studying theology in Germany is the\nfact that the students get their ancient language-learning out of the\nway early [I'm not a theology student, but I spend a lot of time with\nsuch folks] in their careers. They take the first two years or so to just\ndo Greek and Latin and Hebrew [possibly Aramaic, too--who knows].\nWhat's it like at divinity schools or seminaries in the States? Is\nthere a lot of language instruction done? I really don't have a basis\nfor comparison.\n\nRegards, Phil\n-- \nPhilip Sells Is anything too hard for the LORD?\nk053730@hobbes.kzoo.edu --Gen. 18:14", ": The willingness of true believers\n: to die for their belief, be it in Jesus or Jim Jones, is\n: well-documented, so martyrdom in and of itself says little.\n\nIt does say something about the depth of their belief. Religion has\nboth deluded believers and con men. The difference is often how far\nthey will follow their beliefs.\n\nI have no first hand, or even second hand, knowledge of how the \noriginal apostles died. If they began a myth in hopes of exploiting\nit for profit, and followed that myth to the death, that would be\ninconsistent. Real con men would bail out when it was obvious it would \nlead to discomfort, pain and death.", "\nwhich Kenneth Engel challenges:\n\nI will wimp out and admit that I never liked the metaphor of\nJesus \"paying\" for our sins in the sense that many Christians\naccept as literal. The point is that God understands the suffering\nwe go through, not just intellectually like when we watch\nthe Somalians on TV, but _really_ understands, He can \"feel\" \nour pain. This fact is manifested by Jesus' life. We can argue\nthat someone in history might have suffered more than Jesus,\nwe can think of more horrible torture than crucifixion, we can\nthink of cases of betrayal and fruitless effort leading to\nworse despair, but the main point is that Jesus is in the\ntrenches with us, He is in everyone, whatever I do to the least\nof humanity I do to Him, and whatever I do for the least of\nhumanity I do for Him.\n\nNow, to reconcile this with the existence of hell is beyond my\ncapabilities, but that wasn't my goal.\n\n\nThankfully our moderator is surprising.\n\n\nAs I re-read this I must admit that this is more of a description\nof my faith than an explanation, but perhaps that's all\nI can do, hopefully that's all I have to do.", "way.qub.ac.uk writes (single angle brackets):\n\nng \n\nThere is no question of similarity in Jesus indication about John.\nThe passage in Matthew is very direct. Where Luke (1:17) reports\nthe angel Gabriel prophesying that John will go before Christ \"in the \npower and spirit of Elias\", In Matthew 11: 14, Jesus himself says of John,\n \n \"And if you care to accept it, he himself is Elijah, who\n was to come\".\n\nIt is interesting that Jesus prepended the words, \"If you care to accept\nit\", as if to say that the implications of this truth, namely of rein-\ncarnation, I will not force on you, but for those who can accept it, here it\nis. A Jewish poster to other newsgroups on Jewish esotericism and other\ntopics has outlined the esoteric, cabbalistic Jewish teaching of of\nreincarnation and Karma, a teaching that is little known among Jews\ntoday, but which is apparently widespread enough in Israel that Hannah\nHurnard (\"Hinds Feet on High Places\") was told about it by a Rabbi\nshe was trying to convert back in the 1940s as a missionary in Palestine.\nThus there may well have been a small number of Jews who knew about this,\nwhereas the large number of people did not. The statement of Jesus about \nJohn, the greatest human personality in the New Testament, is guarded\nbut nevertheless quite direct. Again, the subject of reincarnation, one\nway or another, is not a subject of the New Testament, nor is the fate in general\nof the human being between death and the last judgement. But there are \noccasional indications that point to it.\n\nAs for the \"popular belief\" that Elijah would come again, it was more than \na popular belief, as Jesus confirms it in more than one place, and he never \ncorrected those who were expecting Elijah -- for example, those who thought \nthat Jesus himself be he.", "\n\nKoberg,\n\n\tJust a couple of minor corrections here...\n\n\t1) The Churches of Christ do not usually believe in speaking in\ntongues, in fact many of them are known for being strongly opposed to\nPentecostal teaching. You are probably thinking of Church of God in\nChrist, the largest African-American Pentecostal denomination.\n\n\t2) I'm not sure what you mean by \"signifying believers\" but it\nshould be pointed out that the Assemblies of God does not now, nor has it\never, held that speaking in tongues is the sign that one is a Christian. \nThe doctrine that traditional Pentecostals (including the A/G) maintain is\nthat speaking in tongues is the sign of a second experience after becoming\na Christian in which one is \"Baptized in the Holy Spirit\" That may be\nwhat you were referring to, but I point this out because Pentecostals are\nfrequently labeled as believing that you have to speak in tongues in order\nto be a Christian. Such a position is only held by some groups and not the\nmajority of Pentecostals. Many Pentecostals will quote the passage in\nMark 16 about \"these signs following them that believe\" but they generally\ndo not interpret this as meaning if you don't pactice the signs you aren't\n\"saved\".\n\n\t3) I know it's hard to summarize the beliefs of a movement that\nhas such diversity, but I think you've made some pretty big\ngeneralizations here. Do \"Neo-Pentecostals\" only believe in tongues as a\nsign and tongues as prayer but NOT tongues as revelatory with a message? \nI've never heard of that before. In fact I would have characterized them\nas believing the same as Pentecostals except less likely to see tongues as\na sign of Spirit Baptism. Also, while neo-Pentecostals may not be\ninclined to speak in tongues in the non-Pentecostal churches they attend,\nthey do have their own meetings and, in many cases, a whole church will be\ncharismatic.", "There were some recent developments in the dispute about Masonry among\nSouthern Baptists. I posted a summary over in bit.listserv.christia, and\nI suppose that it might be useful here. Note that I do not necessarily\nagree or disagree with any of what follows: I present it as information.\n\n *\n\nFor a short summary: a Southern Baptist named Larry Holly wrote a book\nclaiming that Freemasonry is a religion incompatible with Christianity.\n(Mr Holly's father rejects Christianity, and Mr Holly blames that on the\nMasons.)\n\nThe SBC's Home Missions Board includes an interfaith witness department,\nwhich studies other religions and how to teach them about Christ. A few\nyears ago, they were ordered to produce a report on Masonry: they concluded\nthat it was not a religion, and therefore was outside their speciality.\nHowever, Mr Holly led a movement of people who oppose Masonry, and\nlast year the Convention again ordered the HMB to study Masonry. (I got the\nfeeling that they were saying \"You got the wrong answer last time, try to\ndo better and get the answer we want.\")\n\nAnyway, there's been a bit of infighting and some inappropriate actions, but\nthe dust has settled and the report is in. Nobody is entirely happy with it,\nbut everybody seems willing to live with it. Both sides are saying things\nsuch as: \"This was the best we were going to get in the current environment.\"\n\nThe report commends the Masons for the charity work they do, such as the\nhospitals and burn centers they operate, as well as efforts to help the\nelderly and prevent drug abuse. The report acknowledges that many well-\nknown Christians are and have been Masons, and notes that many teachings\nof Masonry are \"supportive of Christian faith and practice\". Examples of\nthe latter include belief in God, emphases on honesty and integrity, and\nthat some Masonic lodges incorporate explicit Christian beliefs.\n\nOn the other hand, they note that some aspects of Masonry are incompatible\nwith Southern Baptist principles. These included the use of titles which some\npeople consider sacrilegious, the taking of certain oaths (even though they\nare not meant seriously), the \"undeniably pagan and/or occultic\" writings of\nsome Masonic leaders, the implication in some Masonic writings that salvation\ncan be achieved by good works, and the racial discrimination practiced by many\nMasonic lodges. (I note with some chagrin that Baptist churches as a whole\naren't really in a place to speak on this last point.)\n\n\nThe report concludes that Masonry is not a religion, and says that membership\nshould not be endorsed or censured, but left to the discretion of individuals.\nThis was in part because there is variation among different Masonic Lodges,\nand while one may include elements strongly against Christianity, another may\nnot. Many Southern Baptists have strong convictions about the priesthood of\nthe believer and the autonomy of the local church, and this history probably\ninfluenced how the report came out.\n\n *\n\nThe information above was gleaned from \"The Religious Herald\", a publication\nof the Baptist General Association of Virginia, and \"Baptists Today\", which\ndoes not have any direct links to a religious organisation. (Autonomy is a\nbig issue among some Baptists. 8-)\n\nBecause I have neither the report itself, nor whatever Masonic documents are\nrelevant to these issues, none of the above comes with a guarantee. Your\nmileage may vary. Void where prohibited.\n\n\nDarren F Provine / kilroy@gboro.rowan.edu\n\nMilton: \"We use only the finest baby frogs, dew picked and flown from Iraq,\n cleansed in finest quality spring water, lightly killed, and then\n sealed in a succulent Swiss quintuple smooth treble cream milk\n chocolate envelope and lovingly frosted with glucose.\"", "At the end of a recent (Mon 19 Apr 1993) post, Alastair Thomson\noffers the following \"paraphrase\" of John 3:16:\n\n \"God loved the world so much, that he gave us His Son,\n to die in our place, so that we may have eternal life.\"\n\nThe \"to die in our place\" bothers me, since it inserts into the\nverse a doctrine not found in the original. Moreover, I suspect that\nthe poster intends to affirm, not merely substitution, but forensic\n(or penal) substitution. I maintain that the Scriptures in speaking\nof the Atonement teach a doctrine of Substitution, but not one of\nForensic Substitution.\n\nThose interested in pursuing the matter are invited to send for my\nessays on Genesis, either 4 thru 7 (on this question) or 1 through 7\n(with lead-in). The n'th essay can be obtained by sending to\nLISTSERV@ASUACAD.BITNET or to LISTSERV@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU the\nmessage\n GET GEN0n RUFF\n\n Yours,\n James Kiefer", "\n\nPardon me for being a little confused, but at the beginning of your second \nparagraph, you say, \"God has one set of rules for all his people,\" yet at the \nend of the same paragraph you declare, \"please do not combine the ceremonial \nand moral laws in one.\" Not only do I not understand where in the Bible you \nfind the declaration that there are 2 laws (ceremonial and moral), but I am \nalso unclear on whether you think it is bad to have 2 sets of laws in the first \nplace. If it's bad to have 2 sets of laws, how can there be a ceremonial law \nthat is different from the moral law (and vice versa)?\n\nI would also be interested in your comments on the passage in I Cor. 10:1-16, \nwhere Paul teaches different rules for covering you head while praying \ndepending on whether you are a man or a woman. Do you think the apostles can \nprescribe different sets of rules for men and women? If so, then why not for \nJews and Gentiles? Also, why did Paul, who was so opposed to circumcising \nGentiles, voluntarily circumcise Timothy?", "\nGood question. I don't have a nice concise answer, though. What about the\nchild whose parents are crushed emotionally because he/she starts a carerr\ndoing something they greatly dislike. It is the same kind of harm, and\nis probably \"caused\" by the same thing: The desire of the child to be \ntrue to his or her self.\n\nWhat is more important, being true to yourself or burying that truth within\nyou in order to maintain peace in the family?\n\nhard question, no good answer.", "\n(Atheist drivel deleted . . .)\n\n\t\t\tUntitled\n\t\t\t========\n\n\tA seed is such a miraculous thing,\n\tIt can sit on a shelf forever.\n\tBut how it knows what to do, when it's stuck in the ground,\n\tIs what makes it so clever.\n\tIt draws nutrients from the soil through it's roots,\n\tAnd gathers its force from the sun\n\tIt puts forth a whole lot of blossoms and fruit,\n\tThen recedes itself when it is done.\n\tWho programmed the seed to know just what to do?\n\tAnd who put the sun in the sky?\n\tAnd who put the food in the dirt for the roots?\n\tAnd who told the bees to come by?\n\tAnd who makes the water to fall from above,\n\tTo refresh and make everything pure?\n\tPerhaps all of this is a product of love,\n\tAnd perhaps it happened by chance.\n\t\t\t\tYeah, sure.\n\n\t\t\t-Johnny Hart, cartoonist for _B.C._", "\nThank you. I now know at least that though I may be on drugs, at\nleast I'm not the only one.\n\n\nYes, this took some getting used to -- of course not having an Indian\nconnection, no knowledge of hindi, etc., this was not trivial for me.\nI did have, thanks to the wonders of the net, \"A Glossary to *Satanic\nVerses*\", posted to rec.arts.books by Vijay Raghavan, which explains a\nlot of the Indian English constructions, Indian culture references,\neven the Islamic references (\"Jahilia\", \"Submission\", the context of\nthe Satanic Verses incident, etc.) -- what I have only covers the\nfirst couple of hundred pages, but it helped me get into the flow of\nthe novel [I can mail this to anyone interested; if anyone has\nportions after part I, if they exist, I'd like to get those].", "I just thought I'd share a nice experience before my exam today.\nI was walking down the streets on our campus, and a beggar came up and asked\nme for any spare change I might have. I had a dollar or so that I gave her,\nand - not wanting to give away all my money to strangers (I generally give\na dollar as that will buy a little food at McDonalds or something) - I offered\nher some \"spiritual gifts,\" as I called them, rather than gifts of money.\nI talked of how great I felt that God had made such a pretty day, and how\nnice it was to give to people - she then said she was getting married soon.\nShe talked about how she and her husband had very little (they may not have\neven had a house, for all I know), but that they felt a very special love in\nthe Lord, an unselfish kind of caring. It warmed my heart to know that 2\npeople can have so little monetarily, and realize that spiritually they are\nindeed very rich. A good lesson for all of us who say we want more, more,\nmore; what we really need cannot be counted, or sold, or bought.", "Please excuse the length of this post, but for personal reasons, \nI must go on at some length.\n\n [...more deleted...]\n\n Perhaps it would be instructive to see what my original post had\nto say:\n\n [followed by my signature]\n\n I was extremely careful in this posting not to say anything which\nwas not factual. I made no judgement about Hitching or the quality of \nthe quotation attributed to him. I have not read any of the books \nlisted (although I did glimpse briefly at \"Earth Magic\", I saw nothing \nthat I would care to comment on). It was solely in response to an\ninquiry by Warren about Hitching, and your assertion that he is a\npaleontologist. I do not know whether he is or is not a paleontologist.\nI do not claim to know anything about him, except this listing of his\npublications.\n\n However, I get the decided impression that I am being included\namong the \"Branch Atheists\" on the basis of this post. If that \nimpression is mistaken, please let me know. Otherwise, I should let\nyou know that the implications are very offensive to me, and I \nwould certainly appreciate a clarification of your posting.\n", "Those things,\n\twhich ye have both learned, and received,\n\tand heard, and seen in me,\n\tdo:\n\tand the God of peace shall be with you.", "perhaps you can tell your friend that you feel pressured by his\ncontinual discussions of this topic -- surely he doesn't feel you\nshould be _pressured_ into something you feel uncomfortable about\n(since christianity should be a choice one should make on one's own).\nplease also realize that he is doing this out of friendship -- he\nprobably feels you are missing out on something great, and wants to\ntell you about it. but since you know where you can learn about\nchristianity, you can tell him that it is now up to you to make that\nchoice, and if the choice is no, you should be respected for that.\npersonally i believe that a christian's mission is just to be\nchrist-like, showing his/her own faith and happiness in that faith,\nand make sure people know they are welcome to talk to you about it. i\ndo not believe in imposing your beliefs upon others -- but then again\neveryone's definitions of \"imposing\" may differ. ", "\n\nPerhaps one other thing I should have added is that Jeremiah's prophesies\nabout the coming destruction of Jerusalem would have been understood by\nthe people of that time to be a full frontal assault on their understanding\nof their relationship with the Lord. Today the if the general populace \nhears \"prophesies\" like the Portland earthquake or New York will burn\nones, they are unlikely to see it in the context of their relationship\n(or lack of it) with the Lord. They are far more likely to think that\nthey are just the result of the fevered imaginations of a religious nutter.\nThat is one reason why I am always deep;y suspicious of bald judgement\nprophesies without any explanation of the reasons for the judgement. This\ndoesn't have to be long winded. To see a relatively modern example look\nat Abraham Lincoln's second inaugural speech. The relevant section is\nbelow. It is this type of spiritual insight which was missing in both\nprophesies posted here.\n\n--- Excerpt from Abraham Lincoln's 2nd Inaugural speech----\n\nBoth read the same Bible, and pray \nto the same God; and each invokes His aid against the other. It may seem \nstrange that any men should dare to ask a just God's assistance in wringing \ntheir bread from the sweat of other men's faces; but let us judge not\nthat we be not judged. The prayers of both could not he answered that of neither\nhas been answered fully. The Almighty has His own purposes. ''Woe unto the\nworld because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to\nthat man by whom the offence cometh\" If we shall suppose that American \nSlavery is one of those offences which, in the provdence of God, must needs come\nbut which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove\nand that He gives to both North and South, this terrible war, as the woe due to\nthose by whom the offence came, shall we discern therein an departure from\nthose divine attribute which the believers in a Living God always ascribe \nto Him ? Fondly do we hope - fervently do we pray - that this mighty \nscourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue, \nuntil all the wealth piled by the bond-man's two hundred and fifty years of \nunrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with \nthe lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three \nthousand years ago, so still it must be said \"the judgments of the Lord, \nare true and righteous altogether\"\n With malice toward none; with charity for all; with firmness in the right, \nas God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we \nare in; to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall have \nborne the battle, and for his widow, and his orphan - to do all which \nmay achieve and cherish a just, and a lasting peace, among ourselves, \nand with all nations.\n\n\n--\n ___\nBill Rea (o o)\n-------------------------------------------------------------------w--U--w---", "OFM Comments:\n\n\nNo disagreement at all that there is a VERY serious struggle going on.\nBut Jesus more typically uses consequences as a threat. That's quite\ndifferent from Hell Classic (TM). :-) Jesus doesn't sound like the\nusual hell-fire type of preacher. He attracts people through what he\ndoes. And the stongest example in Jesus preaching is in the parable of \nLazarus and Dives, which is a parable! In any case, my point is that\na fear-based response to Christ is not a freeing, life-affirming choice\nand isn't Good News in a meaningful sense. There are plenty of good \nreasons to follow Jesus that have nothing to do with fear or a literal \nhell, that still pertain to overcoming in the present struggle between \nGod and the Disloyal Opposition. A faith based in fear is not built\non Rock, as we should found our faith, but on ice. If the fear were\nremoved, there would BE no foundation. \n\nThat's basically why it matters to me. I think we have many Christians \nthat DON'T have a solid basis for relating to the living Incarnate God.\nI cannot be fully open to the working of God in and through my life if\nmy response to God is motivated on fear. \n\nLarry Overacker (llo@shell.com)\n\n-- ", "The last state church was in Massachusetts. Sam Adams, the patriot-brewmaster,\nduring his tenure as governor after the Revolutionary War got it passed.\nI believe it was eliminated around 1820.", "I differ with our moderator on this. I thought the whole idea of God coming\ndown to earth to live as one of us \"subject to sin and death\" (as one of\nthe consecration prayers in the Book of Common Prayer (1979) puts it) was\nthat Jesus was tempted, but did not succumb. If sin is not part of the\nbasic definition of humanity, then Jesus \"fully human\" (Nicea) would not\nbe \"subject to sin\", but then the Resurrection loses some of its meaning,\nbecause we encounter our humanity most powerfully when we sin. To distinguish\nbetween \"human\" and \"fallen human\" makes Jesus less like one of us at the\ntime we need him most.\n\n\nFirst, the Monophysites inherited none of Nestorius's version -- they \nwere on the opposite end of the spectrum from him. Second, the historical\nrecord suggests that the positions attributed to Nestorius were not as\nextreme as his (successful) opponents (who wrote the conventional history)\nclaimed. Mainly Nestorius opposed the term Theotokos for Mary, arguing\n(I think correctly) that a human could not be called Mother of God. I mean,\nin the Athanasian Creed we talk about the Son \"uncreate\" -- surely even \nArians would concede that Jesus existed long before Mary. Anyway, Nestorius's\nopponents claimed that by saying Mary was not Theotokos, that he claimed\nthat she only gave birth to the human nature of Jesus, which would require\ntwo seperate and distinct natures. The argument fails though, because\nMary simply gave birth to Jesus, who preexisted her either divinely,\nif you accept \"Nestorianism\" as commonly defined, or both natures intertwined,\na la Chalcedon.\n\nSecond, I am not sure that \"Nestorianism\" is not a better alternative than\nthe orthodox view. After all, I find it hard to believe that pre-Incarnation\nthat Jesus's human nature was in heaven; likewise post-Ascension. I think\nrather that God came to earth and took our nature upon him. It was a seperate\nnature, capable of being tempted as in Gethsemane (since I believe the divine\nnature could never be tempted) but in its moments of weakness the divine nature\nprevailed.\n\nComments on the above warmly appreciated.\n\nJason Albert\n\n[There may be differences in what we mean by \"subject to sin\". The\noriginal complaint was from someone who didn't see how we could call\nJesus fully human, because he didn't sin. I completely agree that\nJesus was subject to temptation. I simply object to the idea that by\nnot succumbing, he is thereby not fully human. I believe that you do\nnot have to sin in order to be human.\n\nI again apologize for confusing Nestorianism and monophysitism. I\nagree with you, and have said elsewhere, that there's reason to think\nthat not everyone who is associated with heretical positions was in\nfact heretical. There are scholars who maintain that Nestorius was\nnot Nestorian. I have to confess that the first time I read some of\nthe correspondence between Nestorius and his opponents, I thought he\ngot the better of them.\n\nHowever, most scholars do believe that the work that eventually led to\nChalcedon was an advance, and that Nestorius was at the very least\n\"rash and dogmatic\" (as the editor of \"The Christological Controversy\"\nrefers to him) in rejecting all approaches other than his own. As\nregular Usenet readers know, narrowness can be just as much an\nimpediment as being wrong. Furthermore, he did say some things that I\nthink are problematical. He responds to a rather mild letter from\nCyril with a flame worthy of Usenet. In it he says \"To attribute also\nto [the Logos], in the name of [the incarnation] the characteristics\nof the flesh that has been conjoined with him ... is, my brother,\neither the work of a mind which truly errs in the fashion of the\nGreeks or that of a mind diseased with the insane heresy of Arius and\nApollinaris and the others. Those who are thus carried away with the\nidea of this association are bound, because of it, to make the divine\nLogos have a part in being fed with milk and participate to some\ndegree in growh and stand in need of angelic assistance because of his\nfearfulness ... These things are taken falsely when they are put off\non the deity and they become the occasion of just condemnation for us\nwho perpetrate the falsehood.\"\n\nIt's all well and good to maintain a proper distinction between\nhumanity and divinity. But the whole concept of incarnation is based\non exactly the idea that the divine Logos does in fact have \"to some\ndegree\" a part in being born, growing up, and dying. Of course it\nmust be understood that there's a certain indirectness in the Logos'\nparticipation in these things. But there must be some sort of\nidentification between the divine and human, or we don't have an\nincarnation at all. Nestorius seemed to think in black and white\nterms, and missed the sorts of nuances one needs to deal with this\narea.\n\nYou say \"I find it hard to believe that pre-Incarnation that Jesus's\nhuman nature was in heaven.\" I don't think that's required by\northodox doctrine. It's the divine Logos that is eternal.", "In \n\n\n[ . . . ]\n\nHaving lived through the kicking and screaming in the 60s and 70s as the\nCatholics were invited to participate in the liturgy instead of counting\ntheir rosary beads during Mass, I find this comment interesting. There\nis a _massively_ longer tradition for proclaiming the Passion accounts\nwithout active participation. If you know the Latin, one really\nbeautiful way to hear the Passion is it's being chanted by three\ndeacons: the Narrator chants in the middle baritone range, Jesus chants\nin the bass, and others directly quoted are handled by a high tenor.\nThis is actually the basis for the common proclamation of the Passion\nthat John would prefer.\n\nBut there is always a judgement call based on pastoral considerations.\nEach pastor makes his own decisions (it isn't a church-wide conspiracy\nagainst participation). The Palm Sunday liturgy, with its initial\nblessing and distribution of the palms and procession, is already\ngetting long before you get to the Passion; some pastors feel that they\nshould not make the people stand through that long narrative. Also, the\norchestrated proclamation with multiple readers and public participation\nin the crowd quotations runs longer than the single-reader proclamation\n--- in churches with multiple Masses for the Sunday, it might be\nnecessary to go with the briefer options just to \"get 'em in and get 'em\nout\".\n\nEach parish is different. Catholics are no longer canonically tied to\ntheir geographic parishes. It is possible that another Catholic parish\nin the Columbus area (based on the Ohio State address) has a liturgy\ncloser to your preferences. Or talk to some of your fellow\nparishioners and see how common your preferences are --- pastors\ngenerally ARE willing to listen to non-confrontational requests. Though\nyou probably should bring along a paramedic in case he reacts too strongly\nto the shock of people asked for a _longer_ Sunday Mass.\n\nPerhaps the problem is that recent liturgical development hasn't follow\nthe continuous evolution model (the accumulation of small changes, no\nsingle one of which is too hard to take) but rather the punctuated\nequilibrium model (things stay the same and we get accustomed to them,\nthen the marked mutation hits). {My apologies if I am mis-remembering\nthe names of the evolutionary theories.}", "\n: When the object of their belief is said to be perfect and make the believers\n: act in a certain way and we observe that they don't, we have a contradiction.\n: Something defined contradictorily cannot exist. That what the believe in does\n: not exist. Secondly, there are better explanations for why they believe than\n: the existence of the object of their belief.\n: \n: \n: Have you read the FAQ already?\n: Benedikt\n\nBenedikt,\n\nI can't recall anyone claiming that God -makes- anyone act a particlar\nway, I think that you're attempting to manufacture a contradiction.\nGod is said to require certain behavior, but the only compulsion is\nthe believer's sense of duty. A standard of conduct does exist, but we\nare free to ignore it or misunderstand it or distort it in whatever\nways we find convenient, but our response to God's edicts can in no\nway be used to question God's existence. The behavior of believers is\na completely separate question from that of God's existence; there is\nnothing contradictory here.\n\nTo say that something defined contadictorily cannot exist, is really\nasking too much; you would have existence depend on grammar. All you\ncan really say is that something is poorly defined, but that in itself\nis insufficient to decide anything (other than confusion of course).\n\nYour point that there are better reasons for the phenomenon of belief\nthan the object of belief may lead to a rat's nest of unnecessary\ncomplexity. I think I know what you're implying, but I'd like to see\nyour version of this better alternative just the same.", "\nFirst and foremost, I honestly do not believe that Jesus was anything\nmore than a man who lived and died two thousand years ago. I know\nyour Bible provides wonderful stories of the things he said and did,\nbut I simply do not believe that he still exists as an entity that has\nany bearing on this universe or the lives in it, and I similarly do\nnot believe that the god that you worship exists or has ever existed.\n\nPeriod.\n\nI view religion in general and Christianity in specific as a 'cultural\nvirus' that has been passed down from generation to generation because\npeople are often too afraid to think for themselves and claim\nresponsibility for their own fate, so they brainwash themselves and\ntheir children into believing the popular myths, and it goes on from\nthere. And eventually Christianity becomes a given -- if so many\nother people believe in it, it must be right, no?\n\nI don't believe in any \"life after death\". I believe that when I die,\nI die, so therefore it's up to me to try to bring meaning and purpose\nto my life in the meantime. I don't believe that it's a good thing to\nhumble myself and view pride as a sin -- pride, in moderation, is a\nconstructive thing. I see nothing at all wrong with homosexuality and\nnothing inferior about women, and my priests lost a lot of my trust\nwhen they patronizingly tried to explain the 'faults' of these\nopinions to me. I don't believe in 'loving everyone', especially\npeople I've never met; while I try to show respect to everyone, my\nlove and admiration is something not easily earned, and I do not feel\nguilty about denying my respect and consideration to someone who has\nabused it.\n\nIf you want me to take your religion the least bit seriously, stop\ntrying to show me how the Bible \"makes sense\". Start trying to show\nme that this Jesus person is somehow still influencing anyone's life\nhere on Earth.\n", "\nI agree, I had a hard feeling not believing my grand-grand mother\nwho told me of elves dancing outside barns in the early mornings.\nI preferred not to accept it, even if her statement provided\nthe truth itself. Life is hard.\n\nCheers,\nKent", "\nRick, I think we can safely say, 1) Robert is not the only person\nwho understands the Bible, and 2), the leadership of the LDS church\nhistoricly never has. Let's consider some \"personal interpretations\"\nand see how much trust we should put in \"Orthodox Mormonism\", which\ncould never be confused with Orthodox Christianity.\n\n In one of his attacks on Christians, the Mormon Apostle Bruce R.\nMcConkie said they \"thrash around in...darkness in trying to identify\nElohim and Jehovah and to show their relationship to the promised\nMessiah.\" He also said Christians are wrong to believe \"that Jehovah is\nthe Supreme Deity [God the Father],\" and that Christ \"came into\nmortality\" as His \"Only Begotten\" Son. McConkie then stated what Mormons\nbelieve today to be the truth about the matter. He said that \"Elohim is\nthe Father\" and \"Jehovah is the Son.\"\n\n \"Being thus aware of how far astray the religious intellectualists\n have gone in defining their three-in-one God, it comes as no surprise\n to learn that they thrash around in the same darkness in trying to\n identify Elohim and Jehovah and to show their relationship to the\n promised Messiah. Some sectarians even believe that Jehovah is the\n Supreme Deity whose Son came into mortality as the Only Begotten. As\n with their concept that God is a Spirit, this misinformation about the\n Gods of Heaven is untrue. The fact is, and it too is attested by Holy\n Writ, that Elohim is the Father, and that Jehovah is the Son who was\n born into mortality as the Lord Jesus Christ, the promised Messiah.\n (Promised Messiah, p. 100)\n\n Notice that McConkie said the Christians are as wrong about\ntheir \"three-in-one God\" and their belief that \"God is a Spirit\" as they\nare in their understanding of who \"Elohim\" and \"Jehovah\" are. Before\nexamining McConkie's attack and its validity, we shall read a few more\nstatements by McConkie and other Mormon sources concerning the words\n\"Elohim\" and \"Jehovah.\" McConkie stated:\n\n \"...the chief designation of Christ that has been preserved for us in\n the Old Testament, as that ancient work is now published, is the\n exalted name-title Jehovah. (Promised Messiah, p. 367)\n\n \"_Elohim_, plural word though it is, is also used as the exalted\n name-title of God the Eternal Father, a usage that connotes his\n supremacy and omnipotence, he being God above all Gods. (Mormon\n Doctrine, p. 224)\n\n Agreeing with McConkie on the question of who \"Elohim\" and\n\"Jehovah\" are, the Apostle James E. Talmage stated:\n\n \"_Elohim_, as understood and used in the restored Church of Jesus\n Christ, is the name-title of God the Eternal Father, whose firstborn\n Son in the spirit is _Jehovah_ -- the Only Begotten in the flesh,\n Jesus Christ. (Jesus the Christ, p. 38)\n\n \"A Doctrinal Exposition by The First Presidency and the Twelve\"\napostles of the Mormon Church states that \"God the Eternal Father...[is]\ndesignate[d] by the exalted name-title 'Elohim'...\" (Articles of Faith,\np. 466) \"...Christ in His preexistent, antemortal, or unembodied\nstate...was known as Jehovah...\" (Articles of Faith, p. 471)\n\n Today Mormon leaders teach that \"Elohim\" in the OT refers to God\nthe Father and \"Jehovah\" refers to Christ. McConkie attacked Christians\nfor saying \"Jehovah\" can refer to the Father. He stressed that these two\n\"name-titles\" should not be changed around so that Christ is called\n\"Elohim\" and the Father is called \"Jehovah.\" \"...the Father...is Elohim,\nnot Jehovah.... Jehovah is Christ, and Christ is Jehovah; they are one\nand the same person.\" (Promised Messiah, p. 111)\n\n In the OT of the KJV of the Bible, the Hebrew word \"Elohim\" is\nused to refer to the true God, false gods and goddesses, and the judges\nof Israel. When referring to the true God, \"Elohim\" is translated with a\ncapital \"G.\" When referring to false gods and goddesses and the judges\nof Israel, it is translated with a small \"g.\" It is translated four\ntimes as \"judges\" (Exod. 21:6; 22:8-9), once as \"judge\" (1 Sam. 2:25),\ntwice as \"mighty\" (Gen. 23:6; Exod. 9:28), once as \"angels\" (Ps. 8:5),\nonce as \"godly\" (Mal. 2:15), once as \"great\" (Gen. 30:8), and once as\n\"very great.\" (1 Sam. 14:15)\n\n The word \"Jehovah\" is the traditional pronunciation of the\ntetragrammation YHWH or YHVH with the vowel points taken from the word\n\"Adonai.\" Many people believe the true pronunciation of the\ntetragrammation was Yahweh or Yahveh. However, since \"Jehovah\" rather\nthan Yahweh is the word used by Mormonism, this section will also use\n\"Jehovah\" instead of Yahweh to examine the validity of the claims of\nMormon leaders regarding that name. \"Jehovah,\" unlike \"Elohim,\" is never\nused of false gods. It is the personal name of the triune God of the\nBible. In the KJV, \"Jehovah\" is rendered primarily \"LORD,\" sometimes\n\"GOD,\" and rarely \"Lord.\"\n\n Now that we understand something about the words \"Elohim\" and\n\"Jehovah\" and their use by Mormon leaders, we shall consider the Apostle\nMcConkie's attack on Christians for believing the Father is \"Jehovah.\"\nIn trying to prove that \"Jehovah\" refers exclusively to Christ, McConkie\ncited several verses from the Bible. Some of these verses and McConkie's\ninterpretation of them will be examined to see whether he was right.\nRemember, McConkie said the Father is not \"Jehovah;\" He is only\n\"Elohim.\" The first example we shall consider involves McConkie's\ninterpretation of Ps. 110:1. Of this verse he stated:\n\n \"Of whom spake David when his tongue was touched by the Holy Spirit\n and he testified, \"The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right\n hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?\" (Ps. 110:1.) Two\n Lords are here involved: one is speaking to the other; one is greater\n than the other; one is making provision for the triumph and glory of\n the other. Who are they and what message is contained in this\n Messianic prophecy?\n \"What think ye of Christ?\" our Lord asked certain of his detractors\n toward the end of his mortal ministry. \"Whose son is he?\" Is Christ\n the Son of God or of someone else? Is he to be born of a divine Parent\n or will he be as other men -- a mortal son of a mortal father? That he\n was to be a descendant of David was a matter of great pride to all the\n Jews. And so they answered, \"The Son of David.\"\n David's son? Truly he was. But he was more, much more. And so our\n Lord, with irrefutable logic and to their complete discomfiture,\n asked, \"How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, The Lord\n said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine\n enemies thy footstool? If David then call him Lord, how is he his\n son?\" That is, if he is only the Son of David, how is it that the\n great King, acting under inspiration, calls him Lord and worships him\n as such? And we might add: _Who is the other Lord, the one who spake\n unto David's Lord?_ Can there be any question as to how Jesus is\n interpreting the words of the Psalm? He is saying that it means: '_The\n Father said unto the Son, Elohim said unto Jehovah_, sit thou on my\n right hand, until after your mortal ministry; then I will raise you up\n to eternal glory and exaltation with me, where you will continue to\n sit on my right hand forever.' (Promised Messiah, pp. 101-102)\n (emphasis added)\n\n Agreeing with the above statement by McConkie, the following\nremark in the Mormon pamphlet _What the Mormons Think of Christ, p. 6\nreads: \"The Lord [Elohim, the Father] said unto my Lord [Jehovah, the\nSon]...\" (brackets in original)\n\n McConkie clearly stated that it is \"Elohim\" the Father who is\nspeaking to \"Jehovah\" the Son in this Psalm. However, when one looks at\nthe Hebrew word translated \"LORD,\" it becomes apparent that either the\nfirst \"LORD\" is not the Father or else the Father is \"Jehovah.\" Either\nway McConkie is wrong. The Psalm reads:\n\n \"The LORD [Jehovah] said unto my Lord [Adon], Sit thou at my right\n hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. (Ps. 110:1)\n\n The first \"LORD\" in this verse is \"Jehovah\" who Mormonism says\nis Christ, not the Father. The second \"Lord\" is the Hebrew word \"Adon\"\n(singular for \"Adonai,\" meaning master or lord). If the first \"LORD\" is\nthe Father and the second \"Lord\" is the Son, then the Father is\n\"Jehovah\" and the Son is \"Adon.\" However, if the Father is not \"Jehovah\"\nas McConkie claimed, then the first \"LORD\" is \"Jehovah\" the Son, but\nwho, then, is \"Adon?\" Obviously the Father is \"Jehovah\" in this Psalm,\nand His Son is \"Adon.\"\n\n Another example involves Isa. 42:6 about which McConkie stated\nthe following:\n\n \"I the Lord have called thee in righteousness,\" _Isaiah quoted the\n Father as saying of Christ_, \"and will hold thine hand, and will keep\n thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the\n Gentiles.\" (Isa. 42:6.) (Promised Messiah, p. 81) (emphasis added)\n\n McConkie said the Father was speaking of Christ in this passage\nwhich reads:\n\n \"I the LORD [Jehovah] have called thee in righteousness, and will hold\n thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the\n people, for a light of the Gentiles. (Isa. 42:6)\n\n According to McConkie, \"I the LORD\" refers to the Father, and\n\"thine\" and \"thee\" refer to Christ. However, the \"LORD\" who is speaking\nis \"Jehovah\" which means either McConkie was wrong about who is speaking\nor else the Father is \"Jehovah.\"\n\n Another example involves Ps. 22:7-8. Of these verses McConkie\nstated:\n\n shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying, He trusted on the Lord\n that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in\n him.\" (Ps. 22:7-8.) _The fulfillment, as Jesus hung on the cross_, is\n found in these words: \"The chief priests mocking him, with the scribes\n and elders, said, He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be\n the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will\n believe him. He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will\n have him: for he said, I am the Son of God. The thieves also, which\n were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth.\" (Matt.\n 27:41-44.) (Promised Messiah, pp. 530-531) (emphasis added)\n\n Ps. 22:7-8 reads as follows:\n\n \"All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they\n shake the head, saying, He trusted on the LORD [Jehovah] that he would\n deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.\n\n McConkie said these verses had their fulfillment \"as Jesus hung\non the cross.\" That means the person who was scorned in these verses was\nChrist. Who, then, was the \"LORD\" in whom he trusted? It was \"Jehovah\"\nthe Father.\n\n Another example involves Ps. 31:13 and Ps. 41:9. Regarding them,\nMcConkie stated the following:\n\n \"With reference to the conniving and conspiring plots incident to our\n Lord's arrest and judicial trials the prophecy was: \"They took counsel\n together against me, they devised to take away my life.\" (Ps. 31:13.)\n \"Mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my\n bread, hath lifted up his heel against me.\" (Ps. 41:9.) (Promised\n Messiah, p. 532)\n\n Apostle McConkie said these Psalms refer to Christ's \"arrest and\njudicial trials.\" We shall first consider Ps. 31 and then Ps. 41. While\nMcConkie only quoted verse 13 of Ps. 31, verse 14 will also be included\nto give a complete understanding of the matter.\n\n \"For I have heard the slander of many: fear was on every side: while\n they took counsel together against me, they devised to take away my\n life. But I trusted in thee, O LORD [Jehovah]: I said, Thou art my God\n [Elohim]. (Ps. 31:13-14)\n\n McConkie said verse 13 referred to Jesus Christ. Verse 14 goes\non to tell that He (Christ) trusted in the \"LORD\" who is called His\n\"God\" or \"Elohim.\" Mormonism teaches that the God above Jesus is\n\"Elohim\" the Father. Verse 14, however, reveals that the \"Elohim\" of the\nman Jesus is \"Jehovah\" the Father.\n\n In Ps. 41, McConkie only quoted one verse; however, two verses\nwill be considered in this examination.\n\n \"Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my\n bread, hath lifted up his heel against me.\n But thou, O LORD [Jehovah], be merciful unto me, and raise me up, that\n I may requite them. (Ps. 41:9-10)\n\n McConkie stated above that verse 9 referred to Judas' role in\nChrist's death. Since it was Judas who was the \"familiar friend\" who\n\"lifted up his heel,\" the pronouns \"mine,\" \"I,\" \"my,\" and \"me\" in verse\n9 must refer to Christ. Notice that at the beginning of verse 10 there\nis a change of pronoun to \"thou,\" which refers to the \"LORD\" (Jehovah).\nThen the pronouns \"me\" and \"I\" which refer to Christ are used again.\nThat means Christ was speaking to \"Jehovah\" the Father in these verses.\n\n Another example involves McConkie's following remark about Ps.\n 110:4.\n\n \"One of the great Messianic prophecies, spoken by the mouth of David,\n ever after the order of Melchizedek.\" (Ps. 110:4.) (Promised Messiah,\n p. 450)\n\n McConkie admitted this is a Messianic prophecy involving Christ.\nThe question is, What in this verse refers to Christ?\n\n \"The LORD [Jehovah] hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest\n for ever after the order of Melchizedek. (Ps. 110:4)\n\n Does the \"LORD,\" which is \"Jehovah,\" refer to Christ? If\nMcConkie is right and Jesus is \"Jehovah,\" but the Father is not, then\nthe \"LORD\" would have to refer to Christ. But who, then, is the one\naddressed as the \"priest forever after the order of Melchizedek?\" The\nBible reveals that the one referred to is Jesus Christ (Heb. 5:8-10;\n6:20; 7); therefore, the \"LORD\" (Jehovah) in Ps. 110:4 is the Father.\n\n Another example involves Isa. 53:4-12. Of these verses McConkie\nstated:\n\n \"Of the atoning sacrifice of the future Messiah, Isaiah said...\n The _Lord_ has laid on him the iniquities of us all....\n It pleased the _Lord_ to bruise him... (Promised Messiah, p. 234)\n (emphasis added)\n\n McConkie rightly said these verses refer to \"the atoning\nsacrifice of the future Messiah.\" However, what he failed to mention is\nthat they also prove that the Father is \"Jehovah.\" Verse 6 reads: \"All\nwe like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way;\nand the LORD [Jehovah] hath laid on him [Christ] the iniquity of us\nall,\" and verse 10 reads: \"Yet it pleased the LORD [Jehovah] to bruise\nhim [Christ]...\"\n\n Obviously the \"LORD\" who laid on Christ \"the iniquity of us all\"\nand who bruised Him is God the Father who is called \"Jehovah\" in these\nverses.\n\n Remember, McConkie stated that \"some sectarians even believe\nthat Jehovah is the Supreme Deity,\" and that Christ \"came into\nmortality\" as His \"Only Begotten\" Son. He called this concept\n\"misinformation\" that is \"untrue.\" To prove that it is McConkie who is\nmisinformed and believing untruth, two Scriptural references (2 Sam.\n7:14; Ps. 2:7) will be examined. McConkie stated the following regarding\nthese Scriptures:\n\n \"In the midst of a passage that is clearly Messianic, the Lord says of\n the Seed of David: \"I will be his father, and he shall be my son.\" (2\n Sam. 7:14.) In the second Psalm, the whole of which is also clearly\n Messianic, occurs this statement: \"Thou art my Son; this day have I\n begotten thee.\" (Ps. 2:7.) Paul quotes both of these statements in\n Hebrews 1:5 and says they are prophecies that Christ would come as the\n Son of God. (Promised Messiah, p. 143)\n\n McConkie cited Heb. 1:5 to show that 2 Sam. 7:14 and Ps. 2:7\nrefer to Christ who \"would come as the Son of God.\" Since McConkie first\nreferenced 2 Sam. 7:14, this examination will, too. However, along with\nverse 14, verses 11-13 will also be included.\n\n \"And as since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people\n Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies. Also the\n LORD [Jehovah] telleth thee that he will make thee an house.\n And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers,\n I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy\n bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.\n He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of\n his kingdom for ever. I will be his father, and he shall be my son. (2\n Sam. 7:11-14)\n\n These verses teach that the \"LORD\" (Jehovah) would have a Son,\nthe Messiah.\n In the second example McConkie cited Ps. 2:7. This examination\nwill include verse 8. Notice that it is the \"LORD\" (Jehovah) who says,\n\"Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.\"\n\n \"I will declare the decree: the LORD [Jehovah] hath said unto me, Thou\n art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.\n Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance,\n and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.\n\n McConkie said these verses of Scripture are \"clearly Messianic,\"\nand he acknowledged they teach that \"Christ would come as the Son of\nGod.\" What he is not willing to acknowledge, however, is that these\nScriptures also teach that the Father is \"Jehovah\" and that the\n\"sectarians\" who believe \"Jehovah is the Supreme Deity whose Son\" is\nJesus Christ, \"the Only Begotten,\" are right in their belief.\n\n Another example involves Mic. 5:4. Of this verse McConkie stated\nthe following:\n\n \"And so, truly, did our Lord act _during his mortal ministry! Truly,\n this is he of whom it is written_: \"He shall stand and feed in the\n strength of the Lord, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his\n God... for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth.\" (Mic.\n 5:4.) (Promised Messiah, p. 182) (emphasis added)\n\n According to McConkie, the pronoun \"He\" at the beginning of Mic.\n5:4 refers to Christ \"during his mortal ministry.\" Who, then, is the\n\"LORD his God?\" Mic. 5:4 reads:\n\n \"And he [Christ] shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD\n [Jehovah], in the majesty of the name of the LORD [Jehovah] his God\n [Elohim]... for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth.\n\n Obviously the \"LORD\" of Jesus Christ is \"Jehovah\" the Father who\nis referred to as \"Jehovah his Elohim.\"\n\n Another example involves Ps. 2:2 and Isa. 61:1. Of these verses\nMcConkie stated the following:\n\n \"A number of Messianic passages speak of \"the Lord, and...his\n anointed\" (Ps. 2:2), signifying that the Chosen One was consecrated\n and set apart for the ministry and mission that was his. _Jesus\n applied these passages to himself_ by quoting Isaiah's prophecy. \"The\n Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek\" (Isa.\n 61:1), and then saying: \"This day is this scripture fulfilled in your\n ears\" (Luke 4:21). (Promised Messiah, pp. 182-183) (emphasis added)\n\n The first source McConkie quoted -- Ps. 2:2 -- reads as follows:\n\n \"The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel\n together, against the LORD [Jehovah], and against his anointed.\n\n McConkie said the \"anointed\" one was Christ. If that is true,\nwho was \"Jehovah?\" If \"Jehovah\" is always Christ, who was the \"anointed\"\none? Obviously \"Jehovah\" is referring to God the Father and the\n\"anointed\" is indeed referring to Christ. The second source McConkie\ncited is Isa. 61:1 which states:\n\n \"The Spirit of the Lord [Adonai] GOD [Jehovah] is upon me; because the\n LORD [Jehovah] hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek;\n he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to\n the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;\n\n The one who was anointed to preach, bind up, proclaim, and open\nwas Jesus Christ. Who, then, was the one who anointed Him? This verse\nsays the \"LORD\" (Jehovah) did the anointing. Again, we face the same\nproblem. If \"Jehovah\" does not refer to the Father, but only to Christ,\nthen Jesus anointed someone, but who? As McConkie pointed out, \"Jesus\napplied these passages to himself.\" Therefore, the \"Jehovah\" who\nanointed Christ is God the Father.\n\n Other examples could be cited to show that McConkie and other\nMormon leaders are wrong when they say God the Father is not \"Jehovah.\"\nHowever, these should be enough to expose their error.\n\n Now, what about Mormonism's claim that Jesus is \"Jehovah,\" but\nHe is not \"Elohim?\" It is true that Jesus is \"Jehovah.\" The following\nScriptures prove this fact:\n\n \"Thus saith the LORD [Jehovah] the King of Israel, and his redeemer\n the LORD [Jehovah] of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and\n beside me there is no God. (Isa. 44:6)\n [Jesus said] ...I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and\n was dead... (Rev. 1:17-18)\n\n \"...saith the LORD [Jehovah]...they shall look upon me whom they have\n pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only\n son... (Zech. 12:1,10)\n Behold, he [Christ] cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him,\n and they also which pierced him... (Rev. 1:7)\n\n \"...I am the LORD [Jehovah] thy God, the Holy One of Israel... (Isa.\n 43:3)\n ...Ye denied the Holy One [Christ] and the Just... (Acts 3:14)\n\n \"And it shall come to pass that whosoever shall call on the name of\n the LORD [Jehovah] shall be delivered... (Joel 2:32)\n \"...the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth...there is none other name\n under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. (Acts 4:10,12)\n\n \"Behold, the Lord GOD [Jehovah] will come with strong hand...his\n reward is with him... (Isa. 40:10)\n ...Behold, I [Christ] come quickly; and my reward is with me... (Rev.\n 22:12)\n\n \"...the LORD [Jehovah] my God shall come, and all the saints with\n thee. (Zech. 14:5)\n \"...at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints. (1\n Thess. 3:13)\n\n \"The LORD [Jehovah] is my shepherd... (Ps. 23:1)\n [Jesus said] I am the good shepherd... (John 10:14)\n\n \"...saith the Lord GOD [Jehovah]. I will seek that which was lost...\n (Ezek. 34:15-16)\n ...the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.\n (Luke 19:10)\n\n \"For I am the LORD [Jehovah] thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy\n Saviour... (Isa. 43:3)\n Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great\n God and our Saviour Jesus Christ. (Tit. 2:13. See also Jer. 42:5 and\n Rev. 1:5; Mal. 3:6 and Heb. 13:8; 1 Kin. 8:28,39 and John 2:24-25;\n Isa. 25:8 and 2 Tim. 1:10; Ps. 107:24,29 and Matt. 8:26; Prov.3:12 and\n Rev. 3:19)\n\n While Mormons are right when they say Jesus is \"Jehovah,\" they\nare wrong when they say He is not \"Elohim.\" The Bible reveals that\n\"Jehovah\" is the only true \"Elohim\" there is; all others are false.\nRemember, \"Jehovah\" is the personal name of the triune God who has\nrevealed Himself in the Bible.\n\n Before we consider Biblical quotes which show that \"Jehovah\" and\n\"Elohim\" are not two separate gods as Mormons claims let us first note\nthat not only are both God the Father and Christ addressed as \"Jehovah\"\nand \"Elohim\" but so is the Holy Spirit.\n\n \"Whereof the _Holy Ghost_..._said_...This _is_ the covenant that I\n will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my\n laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And\n their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. (Heb. 10:15-17)\n (emphasis on \"Holy Ghost\" and \"said\" added)\n Behold, the days come, _saith the LORD_ [Jehovah], that I will make a\n new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah...\n I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts;\n and will be their God [Elohim], and they shall be my people.... I will\n forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. (Jer.\n 31:31,33-34) (emphasis added)\n\n \"For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy\n men of God spake as they were moved by the _Holy Ghost_. (2 Pet. 1:21)\n (emphasis on \"Holy Ghost\" added)\n \"The Spirit of the LORD [Jehovah] spake by me, and his word was in\n my tongue. (2 Sam. 23:2. See also Heb. 3:7-11 with Ps. 95:6-11)\n\n Let us now continue with the Biblical quotes which show that\n\"Jehovah\" and \"Elohim\" are not two separate gods as Mormons claim.\n\n \"And when the LORD [Jehovah] saw that he [Moses] turned aside to see,\n God [Elohim] called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said,\n Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.... [Bruce R. McConkie\n acknowledged that \"it was\" Christ's \"voice that spoke to Moses in the\n burning bush...\" Promised Messiah, p. 394]\n And the LORD [Jehovah] said...\n And Moses said unto God [Elohim], Behold, when I come unto the\n children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God [Elohim] of your\n fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his\n name? what shall I say unto them?\n And God [Elohim] said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus\n shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto\n you.\n And God [Elohim] said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto\n the children of Israel, the LORD [Jehovah] God [Elohim] of your\n fathers, the God [Elohim] of Abraham, the God [Elohim] of Isaac, and\n the God [Elohim] of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for\n ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. (Exod.\n 3:4,7,13-15)\n\n \"And God [Elohim] spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD\n [Jehovah]. (Exod. 6:2)\n\n \"I am the LORD [Jehovah], and there is none else, there is no God\n [Elohim] beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:\n (Isa. 45:5)\n\n \"But the LORD [Jehovah] is the true God [Elohim], he is the living God\n [Elohim], and an everlasting king... (Jer. 10:10)\n\n \"Thus saith the LORD [Jehovah] the King of Israel, and his redeemer\n the LORD [Jehovah] of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and\n beside me there is no God [Elohim]. (Isa. 44:6)\n\n \"Therefore will I cause you to go into captivity beyond Damascus,\n saith the LORD [Jehovah], whose name is The God [Elohim] of hosts.\n (Amos 5:27)\n\n \"Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD's\n [Jehovah's] thy God [Elohim], the earth also, with all that therein\n is. (Deut. 10:14)\n\n \"Wherefore thou art great, O LORD [Jehovah] God [Elohim]: for there is\n none like thee, neither is there any God [Elohim] beside thee,\n according to all that we have heard with our ears. (2 Sam. 7:22)\n\n \"And he said unto them, I am an Hebrew; and I fear the LORD [Jehovah],\n the God [Elohim] of heaven, which hath made the sea and the dry land.\n (Jon. 1:9)\n\n \"For who is God [Elohim] save the LORD [Jehovah]? or who is a rock\n save our God [Elohim]? (Ps. 18:31)\n\n \"Blessed is the nation whose God [Elohim] is the LORD [Jehovah]...\n (Ps. 33:12. See also Ps. 144:15)\n\n \"Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God\n [Elohim], the LORD [Jehovah], the Creator of the ends of the earth,\n fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his\n understanding. (Isa. 40:28)\n\n \"The mighty God [Elohim], even the LORD [Jehovah], hath spoken, and\n called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down\n thereof. (Ps. 50:1)\n\n \"Sing unto God [Elohim], sing praises to his name: estol him that\n rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him. (Ps.\n 68:4) [Regarding the word \"Jah,\" Bruce R. McConkie stated: \"Jah\n (Hebrew Yah) is a contracted form of Jehovah, Jahveh, or Yahweh -- all\n of which names have reference to Christ, the God of Israel.\" Mormon\n Doctrine, p. 391]\n\n \"And David arose, and went with all the people that were with him from\n Baale of Judah, to bring up from thence the ark of God [Elohim], whose\n name is called by the name of the LORD [Jehovah] of hosts that\n dwelleth between the cherubims. (2 Sam. 6:2)\n\n \"...the Great the Mighty God [Elohim], the LORD [Jehovah] of hosts, is\n his name. (Jer. 32:18)\n\n \"O my God [Elohim], make them like a wheel; as the stubble before the\n wind....\n Fill their faces with shame; that they may seek thy name, O LORD\n [Jehovah]....\n That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most\n high over all the earth. (Ps. 83:13,16,18)\n\n The Bible clearly teaches that \"Jehovah\" is \"Elohim.\" In fact,\nHe is the only \"Elohim\" there is. He is the \"true,\" the \"living,\" the\n\"mighty,\" the \"great,\" and the \"everlasting Elohim.\" He is the \"Elohim\"\nof Israel, of all the kingdoms of the earth, and of the heavens. He is\nthe Creator who made the heavens and all their host and the earth and\nall that dwell thereon. \"Jehovah's\" name is \"Elohim of hosts.\" (Amos\n5:27)\n\n Not only is \"Jehovah,\" \"Elohim,\" but \"Elohim\" is \"Jehovah.\" The\nBible reveals that \"Elohim's\" name is \"Jah\" (Ps. 68:4), \"Jehovah\" (Ps.\n83:18), and \"Jehovah of hosts.\" (2 Sam. 6:2; Jer. 32:18) The nation\nwhose \"Elohim\" is \"Jehovah\" is blessed. (Ps. 33:12) Clearly, this is not\nthe \"Jehovah\" and \"Elohim\" of the Mormons.\n\n Another Mormon error regarding \"Elohim\" and \"Jehovah\" is the\nbelief that \"Elohim,\" not \"Jehovah,\" is the Father of all the spirits,\nincluding Jesus. In the Articles of Faith by Apostle James E. Talmage,\n\"A Doctrinal Exposition by The First Presidency and The Twelve\" apostles\nstates that \"God the Eternal Father...'Elohim,' is the literal Parent\nof...the spirits of the human race.\" (p. 466) This \"Doctrinal\nExposition\" also states explicitly that \"Jesus Christ is not the Father\nof the spirits who have taken or yet shall take bodies upon this earth,\nfor He is one of them. He is The Son, as they are sons and daughters of\nElohim.\" (p. 473)\n\n The Apostle Talmage stated that \"_Elohim_...is the name-title of\nGod the Eternal Father, whose firstborn Son in the spirit is\n_Jehovah_--\" (Jesus the Christ, p. 38)\n\n The Apostle Bruce R. McConkie stated the following about this\nmatter: \"...Jehovah-Christ...did in fact create the earth and all forms\nof plant and animal life on the face thereof. _But when it came to\nplacing man on earth, there was a change in Creators_. That is, the\nFather himself became personally involved. All things were created by\nthe Son, using the power delegated by the Father, except man. _In the\nspirit and again in the flesh, man was created by the Father_. There was\nno delegation of authority where the crowning creature of creation was\nconcerned.\" (Promised Messiah, p. 62) (emphasis added)\n\n Mormon leaders claim that \"Jehovah-Christ\" did not create either\nman's spirit or his body. They maintain that the Mormon \"Elohim,\" who is\nthe father, created man both in spirit and body. The Bible reveals the\ntruth about who created man.\n\n \"And Moses spake unto the LORD [Jehovah], saying,\n Let the LORD [Jehovah], the God [Elohim] of the _spirits of all\n flesh_, set a man over the congregation. (Num. 27:15-16. See also\n 16:20-23) (emphasis added)\n\n \"...the LORD [Jehovah], which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth\n the foundation of the earth, and _formeth the spirit of man within\n him_. (Zech. 12:1) (emphasis added)\n\n \"...the LORD [Jehovah]...made us this soul... (Jer. 38:16)\n\n \"For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for\n the spirit should fail before me, and the _souls which I have\n made_....\n ...saith the LORD [Jehovah]... (Isa. 57:16,19) (emphasis on \"souls...I\n have made\" added)\n\n \"Behold, I am the LORD [Jehovah], the God [Elohim] _of all flesh_...\n (Jer. 32:27) (emphasis added)\n\n \"Thus saith the LORD [Jehovah], thy redeemer, and he that _formed thee\n from the womb_.\n I am the LORD [Jehovah] that maketh all things... (Isa. 44:24)\n (emphasis added)\n\n \"Thus saith the LORD [Jehovah]...\n I have made the earth, and _created man_ upon it... (Isa. 45:11-12)\n (emphasis added)\n\n \"...God [Elohim] created man upon the earth...\n Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD\n [Jehovah] he is God [Elohim]; there is none else beside him. (Deut.\n 4:32,35)\n\n \"Thus saith God [El] the LORD [Jehovah]...he that spread forth the\n earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the\n people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein. (Isa. 42:5)\n\n \"...Thus saith the LORD [Jehovah] of hosts, the God [Elohim] of\n Israel... I have made the earth, _the man_ and the beast that are upon\n the ground... (Jer. 27:4-5) (most emphasis added)\n\n The Bible reveals that it is \"Jehovah\" who is the \"Elohim of the\nspirits of all flesh\" and \"of all flesh\" itself, that it was He who\n\"formed the spirit of man within him,\" that He \"made us this soul\" and\n\"formed us from the womb.\" He did indeed \"create man.\"\n\n If Mormon leaders are right when they say Jesus is \"Jehovah,\"\nthen they are wrong when they say he did not create man. If they are\nright when they say the father is the one who created man, then they are\nwrong when they say he is not \"Jehovah.\"\n\n Although Mormon leaders teach that Jesus did not create man,\nMormon scriptures teach that he did. The BoM states the following:\n\n \"Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son....\n And never have I showed myself unto _man whom I have created_, for\n never has man believed in me as thou hast....\n Behold, this body, which ye now behold, is the body of my spirit; and\n _man have I created_ after the body of my spirit... (Eth. 3:14-16)\n (emphasis added)\n\n \"For it is I that taketh upon me the sins of the world; for it is _I\n that hath created them_... (Mos. 26:23) (emphasis added)\n\n \"...the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of\n Jacob...is that same God who created the heavens and the earth, and\n all things that in them are.\n Behold _he created Adam_... (Mor. 9:11-12) (emphasis added)\n\n D&C, 93:10 states that \"the worlds were made by him [Christ];\n_men were made by him_; all things were made by him, and through him,\nand of him.\" (emphasis added)\n\n Another error by Bruce R. McConkie involving \"Jehovah\" and his\ncreation is the belief that \"Jehovah\" had \"many\" pre-mortal spirits\nhelping him create. Included in this alleged group was Joseph Smith, Jr.\n\n \"That he [Christ] was aided in the creation of this earth by \"many of\n the noble and great\" spirit children of the Father is evident from\n go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these\n materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell.\" (Abra.\n 3:22-24.) Michael or Adam was one of these. Enoch, Noah, Abraham,\n Moses, Peter, James, and John, Joseph Smith, and many other \"noble and\n great\" ones played a part in the great creative enterprise. (Doctrines\n of Salvation, vol. 1, pp. 74-75.) (Mormon Doctrine, p. 169)\n\n The Bible reveals the truth about this matter:\n\n \"Thus saith the LORD [Jehovah], thy redeemer, and he that formed thee\n from the womb, I am the LORD [Jehovah] that maketh all things; that\n stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by\n myself. (Isa. 44:24)\n\n \"Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of\n the sea. (Job 9:8)\n\n \"Jehovah,\" by Himself, created all things. He had no alleged\npreexistent spirit helpers assisting Him.\n\n Regarding the Mormon 'Elohim,\" the Apostle McConkie stated:\n\"Elohim. plural word though it is, is also used as the exalted\nname-title of God the Eternal Father, a usage that connotes his\nsupremacy and omnipotence, he being God above all Gods.\" (Mormon\nDoctrine, p. 224) He also stated that \"Jesus...is above all save the\nFather only.\" (Promised Messiah, p. 363)\n\n The Bible states that the One who is God above all so-called\ngods is the triune God \"Jehovah.\"\n\n \"For the LORD [Jehovah] is a great God [El], and a great King above\n all gods [Elohim]. (Ps. 95:3)\n\n \"For thou, LORD [Jehovah], art high above all the earth: thou art\n exalted far above all gods [Elohim]. (Ps. 97:9)\n\n \"Now I know that the LORD [Jehovah] is greater than all gods\n [Elohim]... (Exod. 18:11. See also Ps. 135:5; Deut. 10:17)\n\n If Mormon leaders are right when they say \"Jehovah\" is god the\nson and \"Elohim\" is god the father, these verses from the Bible would be\nteaching that the Mormon son is above his father. However, as McConkie\nclearly stated, Mormons believe \"Elohim\" the father, not \"Jehovah\" the\nson, is the \"God above all Gods\" -- that Jesus is above all except the\nfather; yet the Bible teaches that \"Jehovah\" is above all \"Elohim.\"\n\n At a BYU Dev. on March 2, 1982, Bruce R. McConkie made the\nfollowing remark about praying to Jesus:\n\n \"Another peril is that those so involved often begin to pray directly\n to Christ because of some special friendship they feel has been\n developed....\n This is plain sectarian nonsense. Our prayers are addressed to the\n Father, and to him only....\n ...Perfect prayer is addressed to the Father, in the name of the Son;\n it is uttered by the power of the Holy Ghost... (Our Relationship With\n the Lord, pp. 19-20)\n\n McConkie states on p. 335 of his book Promised Messiah that the\nMormons \"pray to the Father, not the Son...\" On p. 306 of the same book\nMcConkie states that \"Christ [the Son] is Jehovah.\" This is important to\nremember, because although McConkie said prayer is not to be offered to\nthe Mormon Christ who is \"Jehovah,\" the Bible states repeatedly in the\nOT that people prayed to \"Jehovah,\" and He not only heard those prayers,\nbut He accepted them as valid requests. The following is but a small\nsample of the vast number of times people prayed to \"Jehovah.\"\n\n \"In my distress I called upon the LORD [Jehovah], and cried unto my\n God [Elohim]: he heard my voice out of his temple, and my cry came\n before him, even into his ears. (Ps. 18:6)\n\n \"And the LORD [Jehovah] said unto him, I have heard thy prayer and thy\n supplication, that thou hast made before me: I have hallowed this\n house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever; and mine\n eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually. (1 Kin. 9:3)\n\n \"And said unto Jeremiah the prophet, Let, we beseech thee, our\n supplication be accepted before thee, and pray for us unto the LORD\n [Jehovah] thy God [Elohim], even for all this remnant... (Jer. 42:2)\n\n \"O LORD [Jehovah], I beseech thee, let now thine ear be attentive to\n the prayer of thy servant, and to the prayer of thy servants, who\n desire to fear thy name... (Neh. 1:11)\n\n \"And it was so, that when Solomon had made an end of praying all this\n prayer and supplication unto the LORD [Jehovah], he arose from before\n the altar of the LORD [Jehovah], from kneeling on his knees with his\n hands spread up to heaven. (1 Kin. 8:54)\n\n \"He went in therefore, and shut the door upon them twain, and prayed\n unto the LORD [Jehovah]. (2 Kin. 4:33)\n\n \"Go, and say to Hezekiah, Thus saith the LORD [Jehovah], the God\n [Elohim] of David thy father, I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy\n tears: behold, I will add unto thy days fifteen years. (Isa. 38:5)\n\n \"I acknowledge my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I\n said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD [Jehovah]; and\n thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin.\n For this shall every one that is godly pray unto thee in a time when\n thou mayest be found... (Ps. 32:5-6)\n\n Notice above in Ps. 32:6 that the \"godly\" pray to \"Jehovah.\"\nAccording to McConkie and other Mormon leaders, that is Christ the very\none to whom McConkie said people should not pray.\n\n The Bible reveals there is only one true \"Elohim,\" and His name\nis \"Jehovah.\" All other \"Elohim\" are false. They are idols that cause\ntheir followers to commit adultery against the true \"Elohim\" and\nidolatry.\n\n \"For the LORD [Jehovah] is great, and greatly to be praised: he is to\n be feared above all gods [Elohim].\n For all the gods [Elohim] of the nations are idols: but the LORD\n [Jehovah] made the heavens. (Ps. 96:4-5)\n\n \"Thou shalt have no other gods [Elohim] before me. (Exod. 20:3)\n\n \"Now I know that the LORD [Jehovah] is greater than all gods\n [Elohim]... (Exod. 18:11)\n\n \"And it shall be, if thou do at all forget the LORD [Jehovah] thy God\n [Elohim], and walk after other gods [Elohim], and serve them, and\n worship them, I testify against you this day that ye shall surely\n perish. (Deut. 8:19)\n\n \"Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor with their gods [Elohim].\n They shall not dwell in thy land, lest they make thee sin against me:\n for if thou serve their gods [Elohim], it will surely be a snare unto\n thee. (Exod. 23:32- 33)\n\n \"Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn\n aside, and serve other gods [Elohim], and worship them. (Deut. 11:16)\n\n \"That ye come not among these nations, these that remain among you;\n neither make mention of the name of their gods [Elohim], nor cause to\n swear by them, neither serve them, nor bow yourselves unto them.\n (Josh. 23:7)\n\n \"...neither walk after other gods [Elohim] to your hurt. (Jer. 7:6)\n\n \"But the LORD [Jehovah] is the true God [Elohim], he is the living God\n [Elohim]... (Jer. 10:10)\n\n \"And they forsook the LORD [Jehovah] God [Elohim] of their fathers,\n which brought them out of the land of Egypt, and followed other gods\n [Elohim], of the gods [Elohim] of the people that were round about\n them, and bowed themselves unto them, and provoked the LORD [Jehovah]\n to anger. (Jud. 2:12)\n\n \"Shall a man make gods [Elohim] unto himself, and they are no gods\n [Elohim]? Therefore, behold, I will this once cause them to know, I\n will cause them to know mine hand and my might; and they shall know\n that my name is the LORD [Jehovah]. ( Jer. 16:20-21)\n\n \"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD [Jehovah], choose you\n this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods [Elohim] which your\n fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods\n [Elohim] of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my\n house, we will serve the LORD [Jehovah].\n And the people answered and said, God [Elohim] forbid that we should\n forsake the LORD [Jehovah], to serve other gods [Elohim]. (Josh.\n 24:15-16)\n\n These verses teach that the only true, living \"Elohim\" in heaven\nand on earth is \"Jehovah\" -- the triune God who made heaven and earth\nand all therein.\n\n \"Jehovah\" is greater than any \"Elohim,\" because all other\n\"Elohim\" are idols. The reality behind them is demonic. (Deut. 32:17)\n\"Jehovah Elohim\" has given explicit warnings and guidelines regarding\nthese false \"Elohim.\" He told His people not to have any \"Elohim\" but\nHim. He told the people that if they left Him for the false \"Elohim,\"\nthose \"Elohim\" would be a snare to them, and they would be hurt and\nwould perish. He warned the people to \"take heed\" that their \"heart be\nnot deceived\" into worshiping, serving, swearing by, and making\ncovenants with false \"Elohim.\" \"Jehovah Elohim\" told His people He would\neventually judge all false \"Elohim\" and their followers.\n\n Despite these warnings and guidelines, \"Elohim's\" covenant\npeople forsook Him and believed in and worshiped the false \"Elohim's\" of\nthe people they came in contact with. Ju. 10:6 states that \"the children\nof Israel did evil again in the sight of the LORD [Jehovah] and served\nBaalim, and Ashtaroth, and the gods [Elohim] of Syria, and the gods\n[Elohim] of Zidon, and the gods [Elohim] of Moab, and the gods [Elohim]\nof the children of Ammon, and the gods [Elohim] of the Philistines, and\nforsook the LORD [Jehovah], and served not him.\"\n\n This examination has shown that the \"Elohim\" of Mormonism, like\nthe \"Elohim\" in Ju. 10:6 is not the true \"Jehovah Elohim.\" Therefore,\nthe people who leave the true \"Elohim\" for the Mormon \"Elohim\" will do\n\"evil...in the sight of the LORD [Jehovah].\"\n\n Although McConkie attacked Christians for their belief in a\ntriune God who is Spirit and for their belief that God the Father\n[Jehovah] sent His Son into the world, these beliefs are true. God is\ntriune; He is Spirit; He is \"Jehovah;\" and He did send His Son into the\nworld to redeem mankind.\n\n It is obvious from this examination that it is not the\nChristians who \"thrash around in...darkness\" about who \"Elohim\" and\n\"Jehovah\" are. One wonders what \"Holy Writ\" McConkie had in mind when he\nstated that it attests to the fact that \"Elohim is the Father, and that\nJehovah is the Son.\" He certainly did not mean the Bible which teaches\nthat the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all the one \"Jehovah Elohim.\"\nHe apparently did not mean the D&C either, because chapter 109, verses\n1,4,9-10, 14,19,22,24,29,34,42,47,56,68,77 refer to the Father as\n\"Jehovah.\"\n\nSummary\n\n Obviously Joseph Fielding Smith's statement that the Mormons\n\"have a clear and perfect understanding of the nature of God\" (Doctrines\nof Salvation, 1:279) is not accurate. The Mormon gods are not the true\nGod as Mormonism claims, but are idols which cause their followers to\ncommit adultery against God and idolatry.\n\n In answer to Jesus' question, \"But whom say ye that I am,\"\nMormons say Jesus is someone different from the Jesus who is revealed in\nthe Bible and whom the apostles preached. Therefore, anyone trusting in\nthe Mormon Jesus is believing in \"another Jesus\" whom Paul warned about.\n\n Bernard P. Brockbank, of the First Quorum of the Seventy,\nadmitted in the May 1977 issue of The Ensign, a Mormon publication, that\nthe Mormon Jesus is different from the Christian Jesus. He stated that\n\"it is true that many of the Christian churches worship a different\nJesus Christ than is worshipped by the Mormons or The Church of Jesus\nChrist of Latter-day Saints.\" (p. 26)\n\n The people who believe in the Mormon Jesus are committing\nadultery against God and idolatry. They do not have the Son; therefore,\nthey do not have the Father, and they do not have eternal life. As the\nApostle Bruce R. McConkie rightly stated: \"Salvation comes only by\nworshiping the true God.\" (Promised Messiah, p. 163) McConkie also\nrightly stated that \"the mere worship of a god who has the proper\nscriptural names does not assure one that he is worshiping the true and\nliving God,\" because the \"true names of Deity\" can be applied to \"false\nconcepts of God.\" (Mormon Doctrine, p. 270) Remember that the Apostle\nStephen L. Richards admitted that Joseph Smith, Jr., gave \"a new\nconception of God and the Godhead.\" (Contributions of Joseph Smith, p.\n1)\n\n It is important for the people who have left the true triune God\nrevealed in the Bible to repent and return to Him. They must forsake the\nsins of idolatry and adultery which they are committing in Mormonism.\n\n \"...all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from\n me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD\n [Jehovah], the fountain of living waters. (Jer. 17:13)\n\n \"And it shall be, if thou do at all forget the LORD [Jehovah] thy God\n [Elohim], and walk after other gods [Elohim], and serve them, and\n worship them, I testify against you this day that ye shall surely\n perish. (Deut. 8:19)\n\n \"Thou shalt make no covenant with...their gods [Elohim]. (Exod. 23:32)\n\n \"...Put away the strange gods [Elohim] that are among you, and be\n clean, and change your garments. (Gen. 35:2)\n\n \"...flee from idolatry. (1 Cor. 10:14)\n\n It is necessary that Christians heed the warnings of the Bible.\nIf they do, they will not fall into the sins of adultery against God and\nidolatry. Remember, to know the \"only true God\" is eternal life. (John\n17:3)", " \n(Deletion)\n \nRead a history book, Fred. And tell me why so many religions command to\ncommit genocide when it has got nothing to do with religion. Or why so many\nreligions say that not living up to the standards of the religion is worse\nthan dieing? Coincidence, I assume. Or ist part of the absolute morality\nyou describe so often?", "In <1ren9a$94q@morrow.stanford.edu> salem@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Bruce Salem) \n\n\n\nThis brings up another something I have never understood. I asked this once\nbefore and got a few interesting responses, but somehow didn't seem satisfied.\nWhy would the NT NOT be considered a good source. This might be a \nliterary/historical question, but when I studied history I always looked for \nfirsthand original sources to write my papers. If the topic was on Mr. X, I \nlooked to see if Mr. X wrote anything about it. If the topic was on a group, \nlook for the group, etc. If the topic is on Mr. X, and Mr. X did not write \nanything about it, (barring the theistic response about the Bible being \ndivinely inspired which I can't adequately argue), wouldn't we look for people\nwho ate, worked, walked, talked, etc. with him? If someone was at an event \nwouldn't they be a better \"reporter\" than someone who heard about it second \nhand? I guess isn't firsthand better than second hand. I know, there is bias,\nand winners writing history, but doesn't the principle of firsthand being best\nstill apply?\n\nMAC\n--\n****************************************************************\n Michael A. Cobb\n \"...and I won't raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois\n class to pay for my programs.\" Champaign-Urbana\n -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu", "\n\nLuke 10:16-18\n\nHe that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth\n me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.\n\nAnd the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the\n devils are subject unto us through thy name.\n\nAnd he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.", "\nIsn't that just a variation of the \"Achilles & the turtle\" paradox, which\nstates that achilles could never possibly overtake a turtle?\n\n\t\t \tHow should one deal with a man who is convinced that\n\t\t \the is acting according to God's will, and who there-\n Jokke\t\tfore believes that he is doing you a favour by\n\t\t \tstabbing you in the back?", "\n\nIn mentioning some nonsense about psychology :) and atheism, Bob Muir asks\nthe following question. \n\n\nI answer in the affirmative. Now this answer might sound a little\nintellectually dishonest to Bob, but I think I have been accused before\nof that heinous crime and am man enough to take it. !-) What thinking\nperson has not at one time or other been accused of it? Is it\npolitically correct for Christians to be the only besieged group\npermitted the luxury of arrogance? \n\nNow I have a question for Bob. Why in the world would any self-respecting\natheist want to subscribe to a Christian news group? I have a \ndifficult enough time keeping up with it, and I think I know something\nabout the subject. \n\nBob reminds me of my roommate. In order to disbelieve atheism, he says \nhe will need to be proven wrong about it. Well, I don't even waste \nmy time trying. I tell him that he'll just have to take my word for it. \nIn response, he tells me he will say an \"atheist's prayer\" for me. \n\nGood luck, Bob. And, best regards.\n ", "\nNo smiley on the part about atheism, I see. Do you realize that your\nstatement says that I was mentioning \"nonsense\" about atheism? This is\nhard for me to defend against if this is the claim you are making, as you\nhave only included the last two sentences of my post and mentioned the\nfirst. Please address the substance of my post rather than rejecting it\nout of hand. \nBut, because of the sometimes ambiguous nature of English, I may be\nmisinterpreting your wording here. Please clarify: did you or did you not\nmean to call my statements about atheism \"nonsense\"? If so, care to back\nup that claim?\n\n\nOK, then. Start up the amatuer psycology again. How am I \"broken\"?\n\n\n*YAWN* Excuse me, I don't recall any portion of my post in which I called\nChristians arrogant quote me, if I did. I do remember calling Christianity\n\"silly\" and then following that up with information that I was nine years\nold when I thought that. I also said that I find faith to be intellectually\ndishonest and I would like to see some sort of proof of your god's\nexistence. I define \"faith\" as \"belief in the absense of any proof\", BTW.\n\nAlso, I subscribe to a.a as I mentioned and we see fundies of all types\nthere, so in answer to your question: \"no.\"\n\nFinally, I'd hardly call Christianity \"beseiged\" in this country. I seldom\nsee Christians ridiculed for merely practising their religion or wearing\ncrosses or having Christian bumper stickers. I don't know for sure, of\ncourse, I only say I haven't seen it happening. What I have seen happening\nis my homosexual and/or friends being beat up, or preached at by people\nwho claim to be Christ's followers. I know that this sort of thing isn't\npracticed by the majority of Christians, but it is a very vocal minority\nwho are doing it and I don't see comperable victimization of Christians. \n\n\nThe implication being that I am not self-respecting, of course. I'm not a\nstudent of psychology, BTW, but I am a student of Creative Writing and\nLinguistics, so literary analysis _is_ my forte. Also, if the implications\nI see are improper, please let me know.\nI'm here because I'm not sequestered in my own little atheist cubbyhole as\nyou seem to think atheists should be. Did it occur to you that I _don't_\nthink I know everything and that maybe someone will say something that\nwill change my life? Have you read my other posts here or did you see\n\"atheist\" and decide it was time to poke at someone who doesn't deserve\nyour respect?\nAw, geez. I'm sorry, I probably am getting my back up a little too high,\nhere. It's just that the \"nonsense\" thing really annoys me. I figure you\nshould see my first reactions, though, since they are my true reactions to\nyour question.\nNow, the smoothed feather version:\nI seek all sorts of knowledge. That's why I came to my university. Yes, I\nam looking at your religion (well, sorta, I have no idea what *kind* of\nChristian you are) from the outside, and hopefully with an objective view.\nI've been trying to ask reasoned questions here, because I genuinely don't\nknow the answers to them, but when I saw the question directed at atheists\nI figured I would answer. After all, you can speculate about atheist\nmotives here all you want (hence the \"amatuer\" psychology crack), but\nwithout an atheist, you can't be sure of even one atheist's motive. \nI'm hoping people really\nwant to know and I was trying to show that I actually checked out several\nreligions and I actually read all the pamphlets people have to offer and I\nactually think about these things. Instead, I'm still faced with the\nimplication that atheism is some kind of aberration and that only \"broken\"\npeople are atheist.\n\tTry it from the flip side: I posit that atheism is the natural\nstate and only broken people are theists. I offer as proof that so many\npeople witness from horrible lives which picked up as soon as they \ndiscovered their religion, that religion is regional (if people didn't\nfollow the religion of their areas, there would be a more homogenous\nmix), so many terrorists claim theistic motives, and that theists tend\nto be so pushy and angry when challenged on alt.atheism. Why are religions\nso successful? Because there is so much suffering in the world, which \n\"breaks\" people.\nIt's an uncomfortable situation whichever way you look at it, which is another\nreason I'm here, to try to see the flip side of my thinking (and also as \na watchdog for logical fallacies :).\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nThe implication here being that atheists can't possibly know anything\nabout Christianity. Probably jumping at shadows again, but I think my\nreaction is somewhat justified. After all, the first post suggested that\natheists are \"broken\", hostile people. This post confirms that someone\nelse believes it. \n\n ^^^^^^^^^^\n\nWell, he got me there. I am a strong atheist, because I feel that lack of\nevidence, especially about something like an omnipotent being, implies\nlack of existence. However, I haven't met the strong atheist yet who said\nthat nothing could ever persuade him. Call me a \"seeker\" if you like, I\ndon't. \n_Weak_ atheism is being ignore here, though. Some atheists simply say \"I\ndon't believe in any god\" rather than my position: \"I believe that no\ngod(s) exist.\" For the weak atheist, the is no atheism to disbelieve,\nbecause they don't actively believe in atheism. (If you think this is\nconfusing, try figuring out the difference between Protestants and\nMethodists from an atheist point of view :).\nThis is another fallacy many theists seem to have, that everyone believes in\nsomething (followed up by \"everyone has faith in something\"). Guess what?\nMy atheism ends the moment I'm shown a proof of some god's existence. Is\nthat really too much to ask?\n\n\n\nWell, I guess you won't succeed in converting him or me. Why the\nsupposition that you will fail to convince him? (amatuer psycology on) Is\nit because you yourself are unconvinced? :) \n\nAnd I told you that I find faith to be intellectually dishonest. Note that\nI can only speak for myself. If you find faith to be honest, show me how.\nI have been unable to reconcile it so far. Maybe that's how I'm \"broken\"?\nI tell you that I have invisible fairies living in my garden and that\nyou should just take my word for it. If you accept that, you are of a\nfundamentally different mind than I and I really would like to know how you\nthink. All I ask for is proof of the assertion \"God exists\". Logical or\nphysical proofs only, please. Then we'll discuss the nature of \"God\".\n\nPrayer?! Uh, oh, we'll have to revoke his atheist club card and beanie! :)\n\n\nGood luck to you, as well. And, again, I apologize if the inferences I\nmade were inaccurate. \n\n\nMuppets and garlic toast forever,\nMax (Bob) Muir\n", "\nThis is, shall we say, an overly-broad statement. In particular, are you\nreferring to the native American culture that existed in 1400, or the one\nthat existed in 1800? (Simplify things by assuming we're talking about\nthe eastern US rather than the whole continent.) Given that those were\n*radically* different cultures, which one are you referring to?\n\n\nNote that the pre-Columbian native Americans, east of the Mississippi,\ndid all of these things. (Well, maybe not \"on Sunday\", but they did\nhave organized religions, not to mention cities and governments.) If\nyou are judging the native Americans by the tribal culture that existed\nin 1800, you might want to read an account of the De Soto expedition\nto find out what pre-Columbian native American culture, at least in the\nmore civilized parts of the continent, was like.", "\n\n This neatly eliminates the need for a savior and \"proves\" that we can be\nsaved by works alone! If we have no original sin, then it is possible for\nus to save ourselves by not sinning. I understand the reasoning behind your\nargument, but it leads to sheer folly. Original sin is the reason we need\nfaith to be saved.", "\nWelcome aboard!\n\n\n(I think you just answered your own question, there)\n\n\nMost responses were against his postings that spouted the fact that\nall atheists are fools/evil for not seeing how peachy Islam is.\nI would leave the pro/con arguments of Islam to Fred Rice, who is more\nlevel headed and seems to know more on the subject, anyway.\n\n\nHow did you know I was going to welcome you abord?!?\n", "It is important if Christianity is being damaged by it. If\npeople who \"speak in tongues\" make claims that they are\nmiraculously speaking a foreign language through the power of\nthe Holy Spirit, when it can easily be shown that they are simply\nmaking noises, it damages all Christians, since many who are\nnot Christians do not distinguish between the various sects.\n\nThe more modest claim for \"tongues\" that it is simply\nuncontrolled praise in which \"words fail you\" is surely the one\nthat should be used by those who make use of this practice.\n\nI agree with the point that \"Charismatic\" practices like this\ncan lead to forms of worship which are more about the\nworshipper showing off than genuine praise for God; one of the\nthings Jesus warned us about.", "Gerry Palo wrote that there is nothing in Christianity that excludes\nthe theory of a succession of lives.\n\nI wrote that the Apostle Paul, in Romans 9, speaks of God as\nchoosing Jacob over Esau, and adds that this is not as a result of\nanything that either child had done, since they had not been born\nyet.\n\nClearly, Paul does not believe that they had had previous lives, nor\ndoes he suppose that his readers will believe it. For if they had\nhad previous lives, it would not make sense to say, \"Neither of them\nhas done anything good or bad as yet, since they are not yet born.\"\n\nDaniel Cossack writes to ask whether it is fair for God to hate\nEasau when Esau has done nothing bad?\n\nI reply that in Hebrew it is standard usage to speak of hating when\nwhat is meant is simply putting in second place. As an example,\nconsider the saying in Matthew 6:24\n\n + No man can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one\n + and love the other, or....\n\nNow, it is obviously false that a man with two masters must hate one\nof them. But it is obviously true that he must put one of them in\nsecond place. A dog that always comes when either Billy or Bobby\ncalls will have a problem if they stand in different places and call\nsimultaneously. It cannot give first priority to both. One must take\nsecond place. In our original example, second place means that\nJacob, not Esau, is chosen to bear the covenant blessing and\nobligation, and to be the ancestor of Christ.\n\n ***** ***** ***** ***** *****\n\nEugene Bigelow mentions Matthew 11:14 which says of John the\nBaptist:\n\n + And if ye will receive it, this is ELijah, who was to come.\n\nI take this to mean that John was an Elijah-like figure, dressing\nand living like Elijah, preaching like Elijah, and fulfilling the\nprediction that Elijah would prepare the way for the Messiah. I do\nnot think that he was Elijah in a literal sense, and, appareently,\nneither did he (John 1:21).", "\nYes, atheists tend to claim self control and self ownership. Are you saying\nthat theists claim to not have self control? I don't think atheists are\n\"dominantly arrogant.\" They don't claim some god that has supremacy over\nall of mankind. Now this claim would be arrogant, but atheists don't claim \nit. Most atheists do claim to own themselves. I think any disagreement with\nthis claim of self ownership would be supremely arrogant.\n", "Gordon Banks quoted and added...\n\ngb> In article \ngb>\ngb> >\ngb> > Christians have professed for more than 1660 years the Nicene\ngb> >Creed, a statement of beliefs drawn from the truths of Scripture\ngb> >that was officially accepted by a council of church bishops\ngb> >and leaders at Nicea in 325 A.D. Christians still recite\ngb> >this creed regularly in public worship.\ngb> >\ngb>\ngb> So prior to 325 AD there were no Christians? Or all of them really\ngb> believed the Nicean creed even before it was formulated? Do you\ngb> really believe such an absurdity? I'm afraid you do. \n\n No.\n I really don't. Honest.\n\n The Nicene Creed, as I mentioned above, is a brief statement of\n beliefs that are derived from Scripture. That this certain list\n did not exist earlier does not indicate that the beliefs summarized \n in in did not exist before the formula was derived.", "ZOROASTRIANISM\nSAN JOSE, CA, USA\nMonday April 5, 1993\nSan Jose Mercury News, Page 1\n [Reproduced without permission]\n\n_3,700-year tradition still glows - \n 'Assimilation in U.S. threatens ancient Zoroastrian religion'_\n\nBy Jeanne Huber, Mercury News Staff Writer\n\n HIGH ON A HILLSIDE above San Jose, flames leap up 24 hours a day from a\ngleaming brass urn in a temple - one of only four in the United States -\ndedicated to one of the world's most ancient religions.\n\n With the flames go the prayers of about 1,200 Bay Area Zoroastrians that\ntheir faith will survive this land.\n\n \"There is a fear - a real fear, too,\" said Silloo Tarapore of Lafayette.\n\"We have one generation to do it or to die.\"\n\n Many immigrant groups struggle to maintain an identity in a strange land.\nBut for Zoroastrians, it is an especially poignant concern.\n\n Their religion has been around for perhaps 3,700 years, a heritage so deep\nit scarcely seems comprehensible in a state where \"historical sites\" are\nsometimes less than 100 years old. It was the religion of the great Persian\nEmpire under kings Cyrus and Darius. And tradition says that when Christ\nwas born about 500 years later, he was honored by a visit from three\nZoroastrian priests, the Magi. Scholars say many key beliefs of Christians,\nJews and Muslims can be traced to the teachings of Zoroaster, the\nZoroastrian prophet.\n\n Yet, with only about 150,000 Zoroastrians in the entire world, they are \na miniscule minority in every country in which they live. Survival as a\npeople is very much on their minds.\n\n Ironically, local Zoroastrians fear that the almost unlimited tolerance\nof the United States may do what hundreds of years of persecution followed\nby nearly 1,000 years of benign religious segregation could not do: cause\ntheir young people to stop thinking of themselves as Zoroastrians.\n\n Zoroastrians do not believe theirs is the only right religion, and they\nactually shun the notion of trying to win converts. So if their children\nbecome totally assimilated, they say, it's their children - rather than\nthe world at large - who will be the losers.\n\n \"It's important to have an identity,\" said Maneck Bhujwaia of San Jose,\na leader among Zoroastrians who came here from India. \"It's important\nfor everybody - Irish, Scottish, Americans. It gives meaning to life.\nYou don't have to depend on the majority community to give you respect.\nYou can fall back on your own identity.\"\n\n For Zoroastrians, there's much to be proud of.\n\n Their prophet, Zoroaster, seeking to make sense of a culture in which\nanimal sacrifice to multiple gods was common, preached that there was\nonly one god, a good one. Zoroastrians call their god Ahura Mazda, which\ntranslates as Lord of Wisdom and Light.\n\n_Good vs. evil_\n\n Zoroaster saw life as a constant struggle between good and evil, with\nthe good eventually winning. Men and women could join in the battle for\ngood, he said, and he warned that they would inevitably suffer consequences\nsuch as shame and sorrow if they did wrong. He preached honesty, charity,\nkindness to animals, respect for the environment, hard work, equality of\nmen and women - basic virtues preached by prophets of many religions.\n\n But Zoroaster was perhaps unusual in that he told his followers not to\nfollow him blindly. He demanded they think for themselves. In fact,\nJoseph Campbell, the famous scholar of the history and meaning of myths,\ntraced the Western emphasis on individual thought to the Zoroastrians.\n\n Zoroastrians have many words for thought. Their motto, leaded into a\nstained glass window over the sacred fire at the temple on the slopes of\nMount Hamilton, is \"Good thoughts, good words, good deeds.\"\n\n So it's not surprising that Zoroastrians value education highly. In India,\nwhere a contingent of Zoroastrians arrived in the ninth century to escape\npersecution by Muslims in Iran, Zoroastrians claim 100 percent literacy;\nthe overall statistic in India is just 60 percent.\n\n About half of the Bay Area Zoroastrian community came here from India\nand Pakistan, mostly to study at universities. The other half fled from\nIran after the 1979 revolution made that a fundamentalist Islamic state\nwhere others had no rights.\n\n Local Zoroastrians point with pride to ways their emphasis on \"good\ndeeds\" has improved life in every country they inhabit. In San Jose,\nthe recent restoration of the Hotel Sainte Clarie came about because\nManou Mobedshahi, a San Francisco-based hotelier, passed the boarded-up\ndowntown landmark on his way to and from the temple. At the temple's\ndedication, the chief guest of honor was the mother of Zubin Mehta, the\nZoroastrian conductor of the New York Philharmonic Orchestra.\n\n The temple exists because of another good deed: the decision by an\nIranian emigre, the late Arbab Rustom Guiv, to buy land for six temples\nin North America. Besides the 10-acre site off Crothers Road on Mount\nHamilton, he paid for land in Los Angeles, Chicago, New York, Toronto,\nand Vancouver. Until his gifts, there were no Zoroastrian temples on\nthis continent.\n\n Local Zoroastrians raised money to build the actual temple, and the\nproperty already had a large house that they have converted to a\ncommunity center.\n\n The temple, dedicated a year ago on the birthday of the prophet \nZoroaster, is a simple structure with gleaming white walls, vaulted \nceilings and oak floors, partially covered with huge Oriental carpets.\n\n Its central feature is the fire, set in the middle of a partly-glassed-\nin area at the center of the building. Although Zoroastrians are \nsometimes called \"fire worshippers,\" they actually consider fire just \na symbol of God. \"It helps us concentrate, just like Christians use the \ncross and Muslims use the Holy Book,\" Bhujwala said.\n\n The biggest celebration of the years occurs in early spring. For all\nIranians, including Zoroastrians, the New Year begins on the first day of\nthe season because of its symbolism as the start of new life. With\nZoroaster's birthday just six days later, the combination of religious\nand secular holidays creates something on par with what most of the\nUnited States celebrates between Christmas and Jan. 1.\n\n For this year's celebration of the prophet's birthday, about 500 people\ncame to worship and revel.\n\n \"The good things in life are not forbidden,\" Esfandiar Anoushiravani,\na leader of the Iranian members, had said beforehand, and what followed\nproved him right.\n\n Inside the temple, worshipers filled every chair and sat or stood\naround the edges of the room as about a half-dozen priests chanted\nthanksgiving prayers around a table laden with braziers of smoking\nsandalwood, glasses of milk and water, and a tray heaped with dried fruit\nand nuts.\n\n Kids crowded around, grabbing handfuls of the treats. \"People eat the\nfruit,\" Tarapore said. \"It's a way to participate in the ceremony.\"\n\n_Santa Claus, sort of_\n\n The gathering even had a Santa Claus, Iranian style. With flowing white\nhair and a bag of gifts for the children, this Amownaroz wore green\nsymbolic of spring) and red.\n\n He was ushed in by a sort of spring clown, Hajefyrouz, who danced and\nplayed a tambourine.\n\n The Zoroastrians from India were charmed. \"This is all new for us, too,\"\none told a visitor who asked what was going on.\n\n A visitor, John A. Sabanovich of Folsom, said he became intrigued with\nthe religion years ago while on business trips to Iran. Zoroastrians have\nno procedure for accepting converts - a result, some say, of their\ncenturies of persecution in Iran followed by their promise to the Hindu\nking who allowed them into India that they would not interfere with his\npeople's religion.\n\n But that does not stop Sabavich from joining in the celebrations at the\nSan Jose temple whenever he can.\n\n \"When I first heard about this religion,\" he said, \"I thought, my God,\nthis is what a religion should be. They think for themselves and do good.\n\n \"People who don't have a tradition, something to lean on, what's the\ndifference with the lower animals?\"", "In response to: Whitten@Fwva.Saic.Com (David Whitten):\n\n\n\nAnd you responded:\n\n\nOf course. The feast WAS the Seder, and the accounts of it are very clear\non this point.\n\nThe difference is the connection between the bread and wine and the body\nand blood of god. This is an old association of the Tammuz/Osiris/Mithras\nline, and not really related to Judaism. In any case, I didn't really\nintend to argue the point. I saw a possible association and pointed it\nout, but I haven't the foggiest notion what really happened.\n", "\n As opposed to Universal or Catholic or \"FourSquare Gosple\". I think that\n the Greek Orthodox Church would take high offense at your misuse of the\n word. Your version of Christianity is neither mainstream nor bible derived\n you make claims of bible-centricity that are not derivable soley from the\n Bible. About six-seven months ago, you claimed that your primary objection\n to the LDS was that \"our\" doctrine was not bible-derived, And now this\n (and other) claims can be shown, are also not bible interpeting bible.\n\n\n \n\tSimple truths... oh for example? \n\n\n\n \"paradise exalted to heaven\"\n\n\tparadise wasn't equal to heaven and _now_ it is? Yet you claim that\n \tpeeple can not be exalted to heaven, nicht wahr?\n\n\n\tWhen I read the story, I found that \"Abraham's Bosom\" wasn't so much\n\ta place, but somewhere the rich man could see and talk to Abraham?\n\n\tGee this is fairly close to what the LDS call spirit prison, and what\n you have called false doctrine...\n\n [ vers deleted reproduced below quoted from the SunSpot Gopher Archive ]\n\n \n\n This part is _not_ supported from scripture, nor does it support your\n claim that the \"paradise\" where Christ descended was exalted.\n\n Making such claims on this little \"evidence\" ignores the witness of the\n scripture\n\n Using this to argue that paradise or spirit prison, is now changed from\n a Pre-Easter postion to post-easter by God postion is not supportable.\n \n Makeing such a claim requires more evidence than you have given here...\n\n\n\n\n Yes, and your reasons are in general not supported by any direct reading\n of the scriptures. You have demonstrated that you claims to scriptural \n \"proof\" need to be cross-checked. The referencs that you supply often do\n not support your postion, if they are read in the context of the scripture.\n\n\n\n\tHow about that those who have been in paradise, and have accepted\n\tthe gosple will be judged of Jesus Christ, and then return to the\n\tpresence of God. Is that somehow different from your expressed view\n\tthat the paradise spoken of (or \"Abraham's Bosom\")\n\tShould we go back and discuss your view on why the Angle of the Lord\n\tis the Lord again... ;-)\n\n\n", "\n...\n...\n\n\nI can think of another alternative:\n\n4) OOBE's are a form of contact with the demonic world, whereby one \nintentionally or unintentionally surrenders control of his or her perceptions \nto spiritual beings whose purpose is to deceive and entrap them.", "\nI can see that some of the above verses do not clearly address the issues, \nhowever, a couple of them seem as though they do not require \"incredibly \nperverse interpretations\" in order to be seen as condemning homosexuality.\n\n\"... Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor adulterers, \nnor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, \nnor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were \nsome of you...\" I Cor. 6:9-11.\n\nWould someone care to comment on the fact that the above seems to say\nfornicators will not inherit the kingdom of God? How does this apply\nto homosexuals? I understand \"fornication\" to be sex outside of\nmarriage. Is this an accurate definition? Is there any such thing as\nsame-sex marriage in the Bible? My understanding has always been that\nthe New Testament blesses sexual intercourse only between a husband\nand his wife. I am, however, willing to listen to Scriptural evidence\nto the contrary.\n\n\"You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an\nabomination. Also you shall not have intercourse with any animal to\nbe defiled with it, nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate\nwith it; it is a perversion.\" Lev. 18:22-23.\n\nI notice that the verse forbidding bestiality immediately follows the\nverse prohibiting what appears to be homosexual intercourse. I know\nof no New Testament passages that clearly condemn, or even mention,\nintercourse with animals. Do those who argue for the legitimacy of\nhomosexual intercourse believe that the Bible condemns bestiality as a\nperversion, and if so, why? That is, what verses would you cite to\nprove that bestiality was perverted and sinful? Could the verses you\ncite be refuted by interpreting them differently? Can one be a\nChristian zoophile?\n\nBy the way, I myself am subject to sexual desires that I did not\nchoose to have and that many people would regard as perverted and\nsinful, so please understand that I am not asking these questions out\nof an antipathy towards my fellow \"people of alternative\norientations\". I do believe, however, that one should read the Bible\nwith an attitude of \"what is the Bible trying to say\" and not \"what do\nI WANT the Bible to say.\" I choose not to give in to my \"perverted\"\nsexual desires because I believe the Bible tries to tell me, whether I\nlike it or not, that such things are sin. It is frustrating at times,\nand I have had days where it really got me down, but I don't blame God\nfor this, I blame the sin itself.\n\n- Mark\n\n[There's some ambiguity about the meaning of the words in the passage\nyou quote. Both liberal and conservative sources seem to agree that\n\"homosexual\" is not the general term for homosexuals, but is likely to\nhave a meaning like homosexual prostitute. That doesn't meant that I\nthink all the Biblical evidence vanishes, but the nature of the\nevidence is such that you can't just quote one verse and solve things.\n\nI think your argument from fornication is circular. Why is\nhomosexuality wrong? Because it's fornication. Why is it\nfornication? Because they're not married. Why aren't they married?\nBecause the church refuses to do a marriage ceremony. Why does the\nchurch refuse to do a marriage ceremony? Because homosexuality is\nwrong. In order to break the circle there's got to be some other\nreason to think homosexuality is wrong.", ": \n: >> Please enlighten me. How is omnipotence contradictory?\n: \n: >By definition, all that can occur in the universe is governed by the rules\n: >of nature. Thus god cannot break them. Anything that god does must be allowed\n: >in the rules somewhere. Therefore, omnipotence CANNOT exist! It contradicts\n: >the rules of nature.\n: \n: Obviously, an omnipotent god can change the rules.\n\nWhen you say, \"By definition\", what exactly is being defined;\ncertainly not omnipotence. You seem to be saying that the \"rules of\nnature\" are pre-existant somehow, that they not only define nature but\nactually cause it. If that's what you mean I'd like to hear your\nfurther thoughts on the question.", "JOB 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and\nhangeth the earth upon nothing.", "\nOh, that must explain Matthew 18:\n\n1) In that hour came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, \"Who then is greatest in\nthe kingdom of heaven?\"\n2) And he called to him a little child, and set him in the midst of them,\n3) and said, \"Verily I say unto you, Except ye turn, and become as little\nchildren, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven.\n14) Even so it is not the will of your father who is in heaven, that one of these\nlittle ones should perish.\n\nNice thing about the Bible, you don't have to invent a bunch of convoluted\nrationalizations to understand it, unlike your arguments for original sin. Face\nit, original sin was thought up long after the Bible had been written and has no\nbasis from the scriptures.", "\nMr. Meritt, please state explicitly the inductive argument which leads\nyou to conclude Mr. Tice thinks it \"OK\" to take biblical quotes out of\ncontext in some other t.r.m. articles.\n\nAlso, please explain why you rely on inductive reasoning (with its\nimplicit uncertainty) in determining Mr. Tice's opinions when the man\nis himself clearly available for questioning.\n\nFinally, please indicate whether you agree (yes or no) with the\nfollowing statement:", "\n\nWhat? Absolutely not. No way. Asimov was a lifelong atheist, and\nsaid so many times, right until his death. Judging from the many\nstories he told about his own life, he felt culturally closest to\nJudaism, which makes sense. He was born Jewish.", "\nCraig-\n\nI thought it was derived from a Greek acronym. My Greek isn't up to much, but\nit goes something like this:\n\n\tJesus Christ, God => Iesus CHristos, THeos => Ichthos\n\nwhich is the Greek for \"fish\" (as in, eg \"ichthysaurus\").\n\nApologies for my dreadful Greek! Perhaps someone will correct it.\n\nBy the way, what does your sig mean?", "Hi...\n\nI'm new to this group, and maybe this has been covered already,\nbut does anybody out there see the current emphasis on the\nenvironment being turned (unintentionally, of course) into\npantheism?\n\nI've debated this quite a bit, and while I think a legitimate\nconcern for the planet is a great thing, I can easily see it\nbeing perverted into something dangerous.\n\nAs evidence, may I quote THE WALL STREET JOURNAL (of all\nthings!), April 2 (Editorial page):\n\"We suspect that's because one party to the (environmental)\ndispute thinks the Earth is sanctified. It's clear that much\nof the environmentalist energy is derived from what has been\ncalled the Religious Left, a SECULAR, or even PAGAN fanaticism\nthat now WORSHIPS such GODS as nature and gender with a\nreverence formerly accorded real religions.\" (EMPHASIS MINE).", "\nI don't feel that I'm preaching. I'm just trying to answer people's \nquestions and talking about my religion, my beliefs.\nWhen it comes to what I post, I don't do it with the intent of converting \nanyone. I don't expect for the atheists in this newsgroup to take what I \nsay with a grain of salt if they so wish.\nI just state what I beleve, they ask me how I believeit and why and we all \ngo on. \nIf that's preaching, then I'm soory and I'll get off the soapbox.", "Does anyone know whether the _Acta Sanctorum_, the huge multi-volume collection\nof Roman Catholic hagiography produced by the Bollandists, has ever been\ntranslated into English? I'm working on the _Vita S. Dympnae_ and would love\nto be able to check my own translation against somebody else's. \n\nEmail replies preferred, unless this query turns out to be of general interest.\n", "-- \nKevin makes a good point here, and when that theists miss all-too-often. That\nis, the belief in a diety is not necessarily coupled with agreement/love of\nthat diety, so really they have yet another bit of convincing to do just beyond\nbelief.\nI guess the standard argumet goes something like: well, once you believe in\nGod, you know God is love, and you will choose to love him-- if it wasnt so\nwidely accepted and asserted it'd be laughable...\n\nbest regards,\n\n--Adam", "I've heard that in California they ask you to swear without any\nmention of a god. What states actually include \"god\" in the\ncourtroom oath?\n\n", "\nThat was my point. If I play poker with Monopoly money I can bet \nanything I want.\n\n\nThis is exactly why Christianity is missionary in nature,\nnot just out of a need to irritate. 8-)\n \n\nTo the people who wrote the Bible and to whom the Bible is written,\nthere is evidence of love, but that is a cultural bias. This is\na poor answer which you needn't rebut.\n\nI will now pull the old bait and switch.\n\nI think you should use the Bible to judge man, not God.\nBy that I mean, if your moral intuition doesn't like what\nis described in the Bible, realize that such things are going on\nnow. I will avoid the semantic arguments about the cause of evil\nand ask what are you doing to fight it? Not you specifically,\nbut everyone, including myself. If I don't like the genocide\nin the Bible, what about the genocide that goes on right now?\nTo move beyond the question of a hell, realize that many people\nright now are suffering. If you think hell isn't fair and are\nwilling to sacrifice everything just to deny its existence,\nwhat about how life isn't fair? Right now there is a young mother\nwith three little kids who doesn't know how she will get through\nthe day. Right now there is a sixth grader who is a junkie.\nRight now there is an old man with no friends and no money to\nfix his TV. Instead of why doesn't God help them ask why don't\nwe help them. I think you are correct to challenge any Christian\nwho doesn't live his life with the compassion you seem to possess.\n\nYou want evidence of God. Find someone who is making a difference,\nsomeone you admire, someone who has been through some tough times\nand has come out with his head up. Ask the person how he does it. Ask \nthe Vietnam vet who was battle medic how he kept his mind. Ask the \nwoman who was pregnant at 15, kept the baby and now is a successful\nbusiness woman. Ask the doctor who has operated on a 1-1/2 pound\nbaby. They won't all be Christians, or even what you might\ncall religious, but there will be something in common.\n\nGod is not defined in the Bible, God is defined by what is\nin those people's hearts. It doesn't matter if you can't give\nintellectual assent to any description you've heard, they're\nall wrong anyway. The compassion you already feel in your heart \nis a step in the right direction. Follow that instead.\nThen come back and read the Bible and you'll see that same\nthing described there.\n\n\nGood, I guess we only have to work on your grammar. 8-)", "\nJohn, \n\nWhile I will not take the time to rebut you point by point, I will suggest\nthree current works which I think will be helpful in your quest to answer\nthis question. John Dominic Crossan (Professor of Religion at De Paul Univ)-\n_The Cross That Spoke_ Harper and Row Pub. 1988, Also his latest work \n_The Historical Jesus - The Life of A Mediterranean Jewish Peasant_ Harper\nand Row Pub. 1991, Also two works of Burton Mack (Professor of New Testament\nat the Claremont Graduate School) _A Myth of Innocence_ Fortress Press 1988,\nAnd his latest book _The Lost Gospel: The Book of Q and Christian Origins_\nHarper and Row, 1992. You might start with Mack's book on Q and then \nexamine the others afterward. However I think that once you do that you will\nsee that your \"evidence\" is not as sturdy as you'd like. Most of the tired\narguements you stated, assume eyewitness accounts, such is not the case. But\nAnyway look at Mack and Crossan and then get back to us.", "\n\tI'm not sure that you can distinguish between myth and legend so\nneatly, or at all. A myth is more than a single story. The thought \nstructure and world-paradigm in which that story is interpreted is as\nimportant a part of the myth as the story itself. Thus, I can think of\nno story which is meant to be conveyed understandably from one person\nto another within a single culture which won't rest upon that underlying\nthought structure, and thus transmit some of that culture's mythical\n\"truths\" along with it. ", "\nMarhaba Nabil,\n\nIf we posit two minds in Christ, the mind of the logos and the mind of the\nhuman Jesus, then we must admit two wills. A mind is not a mind without a\nwill. I know this has been dealt with in past Church prnouncements, but there\nis a philosophical problem here that should examined.\n\nT. V. Morris argued that the Incarnation can be seen like this:\n\n _____________\t\t\n (Mind of Logos)\n (\t _______ )\n (\t(\t) )\tHere, the mind of Jesus is circumsribed by God the\n (\t( Human\t) )\tSon. God the Son has complete access to the human\n ( ( Mind\t) )\tmind but the human mind only has access to the mind\n (\t(\t) )\tof God the Son when the Son allows access. This \n (\t(_______) )\texplains why Jesus said even he did not know the \n (_____________)\ttime of the kingdom.\t\n\nThe human will acted in accordance with the divine will according to free\nhuman decision. But if the human will would have decided differently than\nwhat was intended the divine will would have interceded, but this was never\nthe case.\n\nHe employs some very interesting analogies to support the one person/two mind\ntheory. The ideas of a completely healthy version of split personality from\nthe field of psychology, and the intriguing ideas of being in a dream, seeing\nyourself acting, knowing that is you, but also being omniscient. \n\nThe one hypostasis would be the unity of the two minds. Agreed. But I am\nstill waiting for Morris and others to respond to the lingering problem of two\nminds making two persons. Christian analytic philosophers are breaking new\nground in explicating the rationality of Theism and the Incarnation. \n\n==================================== \nTed Kalivoda (tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu)\nUniversity of Georgia, Athens\nInstitute of Higher Ed. ", "\nI think you have are addressing the wrong issue. The situation\nis more like: we both see some elves. This is established as\nfact since we can both touch them etc. Then one of us says, the\nelves have always been with us. The other says, no no there was\na time before elves were here. Which is the positive argument?\n\n", " Brian, it doesn't offend me if you decide to reject Jesus\n Christ. I only wish you would make that decision after you\n learn who Jesus is.", "\nReally? I don't get it... Genesis first says that God created the\nearth, then the animals, then humans; then it turns around and says\nthat humans were created before animals! How can you escape this\ncontradiction?\n", "\n[...stuff deleted...]\n\nAs many posters have said in as many posts lately, this is just\nnot true. For to show no interest in the existence of god takes no\nfaith at all. You make the presumption that the _knowledge_ of the \n_possibility_ of something is enough to require faith to render \nthat possibilty of no interest. It is a very different thing to say\nthat you don't believe something than it is to say that you don't\nhave sufficent reason to believe something is even interesting to \nthink about. It's not either or. Sometimes is just something else\nmore interesting that occupies your mind. \n\nI agree that faith and dogma are inevitable, but not necessarily\napplied to god and religion. It takes both faith and dogma to\nexpect the sun to come up every morning, but there is overwhelming\nreason every single day, day in and day out, for _everyone_ to put \nhis faith and dogma there. Not so with the christian religion.\n", "This is hell. Hasn't anyone noticed?\n", "\n\n\n Many pagans are involved in environmentalism--this is only natural, since\nrespect for the earth is a fundamental tenet of all pagan denominations. This\ndoesn't mean that environmentalism is wrong, any more than supporting peace in\nthe Middle East is wrong because Jews and Muslims also work for it.\n\n Nonetheless, paganism is certainly on the rise, and we as Christians should\naddress this and look at what draws people from paganism to Christianity. Like\nit or not, pagan religions are addressing needs that Christianity should be,\nand isn't. \n I believe that paganism has hit upon some major truths that Christianity has\nforgotten. This doesn't mean that paganism is right, but it does mean that we\nhave something to learn from the pagan movement.\n First, paganism respects the feminine. Christianity has a long history of\noppressing women, and many (if not most) male Christians are still unable to\nlive in a non-sexist manner. The idea that God is sexless, or that Christ \ncould have been a women and still accomplished his mission, is met with a great\ndeal of resistance. This insistance on a male-dominated theology (and the \nmale-dominated society that goes with it) drives away many young women who have\nhad to put up with sexist attitudes in their churches.\n Second, paganism respects the physical world. This is an idea with great\nramifications. One of these is environmentalism--respect for our surroundings\nand our world. Another is integration of sexuality. Christianity has a long\ntradition of calling ALL sexual feeelings sinful and urging people to suppress\nand deny their sexuality. This is too much--sex is clearly a part of human\nexperience and attempting to remove it is simply not a feasible option. \nChristianity has only begun to develop a workable sexual ethic, and paganism\nis an attractive option.\n I'm not advocating that Christian doctrines (no sex before marriage, etc.)\nshould be changed--just that Christians work toward a more moderate ethic of\nsexuality. Denial of sexuality places as much emphasis on sex as unmoderated\nsexuality, and neither one does much to bring us closer to God.", "\nHere again, the problem with most of the individuals posting here, you take the\nbiblical account as though it were some sort of historical recounting in the\nmodern sense. I would refer you to John Dominic Crossans Book _The Cross That\nSpoke_ (Pub. Harper and Row, 1988). The earliest texts which we have make no\nreference to an empty tomb. Nor is an empty tomb necessary for a claim of\nresurrection. Modern Evangelicals/Fundamentalists have completely missed what\nthe point of resurrection is -- Here the work of George Nickelsburg's work \n_Resurrection, Immortality, and Eternal Life in Intertestamental Judaism_ (Publ\nCambridge, Havard Univ. Press, 1972) is most helpful. Look At Rom 1:1-3. Paul\nhere has no need of an empty tomb. Additionally in 1 Cor 15, Here again there\nis no mention of an empty tomb. He was raised (note the passive), he appeared,\nno ascension either.\n\nResurrection could be accomplished without ever disturbing the bones in the\ngrave. The whole idea of an empty tomb isn't broached in any of our texts\nuntil well after the fall of Jerusalem. By that time, the idea of coming up\nwith a body would have been ludicrious. Moreover Mack has argued (convicingly,\nI think) that the empty tomb story first appears in Mark (we have no texts\nbefore this which mention the tomb). \n \n\n\nYou are quite right here. Even the Idea of a subjective mystical event as the\nfoundation of the resurrection narratives is currently becoming more untenable.\nSee B. Mack _A Myth of Innocence_.", "Rick Anderson replied to my letter with...\n\nra> In article ,\nra>\nra> > Well, Jason, it's heretical in a few ways. The first point is that\nra> > this equates Lucifer and Jesus as being the same type of being.\nra> > However, Lucifer is a created being: \"Thou [wast] perfect in thy\nra> > ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in\nra> > thee.\" (Ezekiel 28:15). While Jesus is uncreated, and the Creator of\nra> > all things: \"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with\nra> > God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.\nra> > All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made\nra> > that was made.\" (John 1:1-3) \"And he is before all things, and by\nra> > him all things consist.\" (Colossians 1:17)\nra>\nra> Your inference from the Ezekiel and John passages that Lucifer was\nra> \"created\" and that Jesus was not depends on a particular interpetation of\nra> the word \"create\" -- one with which many Christians may not agree.\nra> Granted the Mormon belief that all of God's children (including Christ\nra> and Lucifer) are eternally existent intelligences which were \"organized\"\nra> into spirit children by God, the term \"creation\" can apply equally well\nra> to both of those passages.\n\n Just briefly, on something that you mentioned in passing. You refer to\n differing interpretations of \"create,\" and say that many Christians may\n not agree. So what? That is really irrelevant. We do not base our faith\n on how many people think one way or another, do we? The bottom line is\n truth, regardless of popularity of opinions.\n\n Also, I find it rather strange that in trying to persuade that created\n and eternally existent are equivalent, you say \"granted the Mormon\n belief...\" You can't grant your conclusion and then expect the point to\n have been addressed. In order to reply to the issue, you have to address\n and answer the point that was raised, and not just jump to the\n conclusion that you grant.\n\n The Bible states that Lucifer was created. The Bible states that Jesus\n is the creator of all. The contradiction that we have is that the LDS\n belief is that Jesus and Lucifer were the same.\n\nra> > Your point that we all are brothers of Jesus and Lucifer is also\nra> > heretical, since we are not innately brothers and sisters of Christ.\nra> > We are adopted, \"For ye have not received the spirit of bondage\nra> > again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby\nra> > we cry, Abba, Father.\" (Romans 8:15); and not the natural children\nra> > of God. It is only through faith that we even enter the family of\nra> > God; \"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.\"\nra> > (Galatians 3:26). And it is only through the manifestation of this\nra> > faith in receiving Jesus that we are become the sons of God. \"But\nra> > as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of\nra> > God, [even] to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not\nra> > of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but\nra> > of God.\" (John 1:12-13)\nra>\nra> Has it occured to you, Robert, that being \"born of\" someone or being\nra> of that person (or Person)'s \"family\" may be a symbolic term in the New\nra> Testament? Mormons believe that we are \"adopted\" into the House of\nra> Israel through baptism and faith in Christ, although some have expressed\nra> belief that this does evince a physical change in our bodies.\n\n The Mormon belief is that all are children of God. Literally. There is\n nothing symbolic about it. This however, contradicts what the Bible\n says. The Bible teaches that not everyone is a child of God:\n\n The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the \n kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one];\n (Matthew 13:38)\n\n I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which \n ye have seen with your father. (John 8:38)\n\n Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not \n born of fornication; we have one Father, [even] God. Jesus said \n unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I \n proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he \n sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye \n cannot hear my word. Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the \n lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the \n beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in \n him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a \n liar, and the father of it. (John 8:41-44)\n\n And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, [thou] child of \n the devil, [thou] enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease \n to pervert the right ways of the Lord? (Acts 13:10)\n\n Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this \n world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit \n that now worketh in the children of disobedience: (Ephesians 2:2)\n\n In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the \n devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he \n that loveth not his brother. (1 John 3:10)\n\n One becomes a child of God...\n\n But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the\n sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: (John 1:12)\n\n Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that\n we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us\n not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God,\n and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when\n he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he\n is. (1 John 3:1-2)\n\n ...when he is born again through faith in Jesus Christ:\n\n Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of\n the will of man, but of God. (John 1:13)\n\n Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus\n Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,\n (Ephesians 1:5)\n\n Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should\n be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. (James 1:18)\n\n For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of\n God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear;\n but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba,\n Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we\n are the children of God: (Romans 8:14-16)\n\n Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one\n that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. (1 John 4:7)\n\n Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and\n every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is\n begotten of him. (1 John 5:1)\n\n For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.\n (Galatians 3:26)\n\nra> > We are told that, \"And this is life eternal, that they might know\nra> > thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.\"\nra> > (John 17:3). Life eternal is to know the only true God. Yet the\nra> > doctrines of the LDS that I have mentioned portray a vastly\nra> > different Jesus, a Jesus that cannot be reconciled with the Jesus of\nra> > the Bible. They are so far removed from each other that to proclaim\nra> > one as being true denies the other from being true. According to the\nra> > Bible, eternal life is dependent on knowing the only true God, and\nra> > not the construct of imagination.\nra>\nra>\nra> Robert, with all due respect, who died and left you Chief Arbiter of\nra> Correct Biblical Interpretation? I don't mean to be snotty about this,\nra> but the fact is that the Bible is so differently interpreted by different\nra> groups of Biblical scholars (what do you think of the Jehovah's\nra> Witnesses, for example?) that to make reference to the \"Jesus of the\nra> Bible\" is simply ridiculous. Whose \"Jesus of the Bible\" do you mean?\n\n This is really a red herring. It doesn't address any issue raised, but \n rather, it seeks to obfuscate. The fact that some groups try to read \n something into the Bible, doesn't change what the Bible teaches. For \n example, the fact that the Jehovah's Witnesses deny the Deity of Christ \n does not alter what the Bible teaches [ \"Looking for that blessed hope,\n and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus\n Christ;\" (Titus 2:13),\"Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus\n Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through\n the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:\" (2 Peter 1:1)] \n on the Deity of Christ.\n\n We first look to the Bible to see what it teaches. To discount, or not \n even address, what the Bible teaches because there are some groups that \n have differing views is self-defeating. To see what the Bible teaches, \n you have to look at the Bible.\n\nra> > \"Our Lord's mortality was essential to his own salvation\" (_The\nra> > Promised Messiah_, p. 456), \"He had to work out his own salvation by\nra> > doing the will of the Father in all things\" (ibid., p.54), \"he had\nra> > to be baptized to gain admission to the celestial kingdom\" (_Mormon\nra> > Doctrine_, p.71).\nra>\nra> Welcome to the wonderful world of Mormon paradoctrine, Robert. The\nra> above books are by the late Bruce R. McConkie, a former general authority\nra> of the LDS Church. Those books were not published by the Church, nor do\nra> they constitute \"offical doctrine.\" They consist of his opinions. Now,\nra> does that mean that what he says is not true? Not at all; I'll have to\nra> think about the idea of Christ's personal salvation before I come to any\nra> conclusions myself. The conclusions I come to may seem \"heretical\" to\nra> you, but I'm prepared to accept that.\n\n I find this rather curious. When I mentioned that the Mormon belief is\n that Jesus needed to be saved, I put forward some quotes from the late\n apostle, Bruce McConkie. The curious part is that no one addressed the\n issue of `Jesus needing to be saved.' Rick comes the closest with his \"I\n have my own conclusions\" to addressing the point.\n\n Most of the other replies have instead hop-scotched to the issue of\n Bruce McConkie and whether his views were 'official doctrine.' I don't\n think that it matters if McConkie's views were canon. That is not the\n issue. Were McConkie's writings indicative of Mormon belief on this\n subject is the real issue. The indication from Rick is that they may \n certainly be.\n", "\nCertainly many religious beliefs seem to be positive principles for\neveryday living. Indeed, I believe it is the Islamic religion which\navoids alcohol (I apologize if I name the wrong religion) and that\nis certainly a physical positive in many respects. However, this\nproves nothing. Just because something is a \"basic, pragmatic\nprinciple of day-to-day living\" TODAY doesn't mean it evolved from\nthe same. Especially those beliefs and (mostly) positions held based\non interpretations of the religion.\n\nReligious beliefs come from many places but most will be backed up\n(after many levels of arguments) to \"Because that's how it is written.\"\nor \"God says...\" Now I'm not faulting that but that is not a basic,\npragmatic principle as you mean it in this context. It is a belief\nbased on faith, which by definition is not necessarily backed up by\nlogic. Faith is a given. God is a absolute truth when arguing from\nreligion. Also, many religions would reject your thesis that their\nbeliefs simply come from these day-to-day principles.\n\nIn summation, if you wish to use religious arguments be prepared to\nback them up with \"It says in the [fill in religious document here],\"\nbecause most religions (things which at least I denote as religions)\nare based on the writings of or teachings of [fill in religious\nfigure here].\n\nNOTE: Religion is a charged topic and if I offended anyone regarding\n\t my references to God, I apologize. Please insert your own\n\t sensible references, the argument should apply to nearly all\n\t religions.", "\n\n\n\n\nNo, I don't mean the LR, whatever that is. As for which GD, I'm using _The\nComplete Golden Dawn System of Magic_ as my source, so (unless Regardie is\nlying) I'm pulling the name out the the original order's rituals. The\nmultiple modern groups are part of why I through in the comment about all\nthe \"spin-offs\".\n\n\nAs a member of the Religious Society of Friends (my membership is in the\nUrbana-Champaign (IL) Friends Meeting) I find that amusingly ironic. :)\n\n\nNot me--I don't want to belong to *anything* which runs around claiming to\nbe the TRUE whatever. I find that disgusting. :(\n\nEnjoy the journey!\n --Br'anArthur\n Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)", "[why are atheists atheists/ believes it could be the result of\n\"brokenness\"]\n\n\ni agree -- if you are going to find out anything from people who don't\nshare your beliefs, do not attack them or condescend to them and hope\nto get a neutral picture of them. come to them with an open mind.\n\n\nwell, you do believe in something, as i see it, even if it is a sort\nof \"anti-belief\" (no negative connotation meant; i mean simply that\nyou believe that God _does not_ exist). christians can also feel that\nsense of \"difference\", however, when they are associated with \"those\nweird televangelists who always talk about satan\". if you'll excuse\nthe cliched sound of this, everyone has to deal with his/ her\ndifferences from other people. i can understand how being an atheist\ncould be hard for you; being a christian is sometimes hard for me.\n\n\nyou should not have to repress how you feel -- you should be able to\ndiscuss it without fear. i think there are admirable things to learn\nfrom any belief, which can enrich your own -- by asking myself the\nquestions that atheists may ask me, i can learn the answers and become\nstronger in my faith. if my faith can't support knowing the answers\nto those questions, it is weak and untrue. \n\n\nin some way the pressures were different, of course, because you\n\"chose\" your beliefs -- or are you saying that they were not your\nchoice, but born of necessity? [please, no flames about whether or\nnot gay people \"choose\" their lifestyle -- that's elsewhere in this\nnewsgroup]\n\n\ni'm not sure i understand this sentence -- could you explain?\n\n[moderator points out that many/ most atheists aren't \"hostile\", they\njust cease believiing in xiantiy/ religion]\n\n\nouch, yes. part of being a christian is accepting _everyone_ with an\nopen heart -- including people of \"our own camp\" with whom we\ncompletely disagree. by the same token, i believe that accusation and\nsuspicion are not the best way to reach out to those not of our faith,\nnor is it effective to try to browbeat people into accepting our\nreligion. i have a different idea of mission: be what i am, a\nchristian who is happy in her faith, and if others see that and want\nto know about either the happiness or the religion, i'll share what i\nknow without pressure and let them make their own decisions. at some\npoint you just have to agree to disagree -- acceptance of diversity,\nnot uniformity, is the way to sow peace....\n\n\nvera noyes", "I've just read Carol's response and I just had to get into this. I've\ngot some verses which are not subject to interpretation because they say\nwhat they say. They are 2 Peter 1:20-21, 2 Timothy 3:16-17, and\nGalatians 1:11-12. \n\nAlso, based on the fact that Jesus is the Word incarnate and he judges\npeople if they follow him (see Acts 17:29-31 and John 5:21-27) and that\nthose who reject Jesus' teachings are judged by the very words he spoke\n(see John 12:47-50), then Jesus' words are true and do not need\ninterpretation, nor would it be just of God to judge based on his word\nif it had to be interpreted.", "This might be better directed to s.r.c.bible-study, which I have begun\nreading, but since my earlier notes were posted to this forum, I will\nconclude here as well. A week ago, I managed to find time to consult\na Septuagint Concordance and a LXX text with apparatus at the library,\nand I can now usefully conclude my look at the Greek words for love as\nused in the Christian background of the Septuagintal translation of the\nJewish scriptures.\n\nThe principal result is that there is a cluster of uses of the verbal\nnoun from _erao:_, _eraste:s_ meaning \"lover.\" This cluster occurs just\nwhere one might most expect it, in the propethic image (and accusation)\nof Israel as faithless spouse to YHWH. The verses in question are Hosea\n2:5,7 & 10; Jeremiah 4:30, 22:20 & 22; Lamentations 1:19; and Ezekiel\n16:33, 36 &37 and 23:5, 9 & 22.\n\n\t[ Hosea seems to have originated this usage, which Jeremiah and\n\t Ezekiel picked up; Lamentations is dependent on, though not\n\t likely written by, Jeremiah. ]\n\nThe \"erotic\" meaning (in its allegorical use, not at all literally) is\nevident. So too in English, unless you complement it with a phrase like\n\"of the arts\" the word \"lover\" is going to have an overtone of sexual\nrelationship. There is no surprise here, but it is worthwhile to see\nthat standard Greek usage *does* show up in the translations from the\nHebrew! :-)\n\nMore interestingly, and some confirmation of my guess that later Koine\nusage avoided the verb _erao:_ because of its homonymy to _ero:_ (say),\n_eromai_ (ask), there is an error in Codex Vaticanus (normally, a very\nvaluable witness) where a form of _erao:_ is used in a completely absurd\ncontext -- 2 Samuel 20:18, where the meaning *must* be \"say.\"\n\nIn addition to the above (and the uses I have already mentioned in Proverbs),\nEsther 2:17 uses the verb in its most natural application, \n\n\tkai e:rasthe\" ho basileus Esthe:r -- and the King loved Esther\n\nand, rather more interestingly, 1 Samuel 19:2 supplies a modest degree of\nsupport to the gay appraisal of the relationship of David and Jonathan:\n\n\tkai Io:nathan huios Saoul e:[i]reito ton Dauid sphodra\n\t-- and Jonathan, Saul's son, loved David intensely\n\n\t[ I'm using the bracketed [i] for io:ta subscript, which I\n\t don't yet have a reasonable ASCII convention for. ]\n\n(The relevance of this to the gay issue is not anything implicit about\nthe \"historical\" facts, but just that a quasi-official translation of\nthe Hebrew text in the Hellenistic period makes no bones about using the\n\"erotic\" verb in this context. Given the quite general usage of _agapao:_\nfor erotic senses, this need not mean anything \"more\" than _agapao:_ alone\nwould mean, but it DOES disambiguate the relationship, as far as this\ntranslator goes!)", "\n\nThis is a point that seems to have been overlooked by many. The ending of a \n1600 year old schism seems to be in sight.\n\nThe theologians said that the differences between them were fundamentally \nones or terminology, and that the Christological faith of both groups was \nthe same.\n\nSome parishes have concelebrated the Eucharist, and here in Southern Africa \nwe are running a joint theological training course for Coptic and Byzantine \nOrthodox. \n\nThere are still several things to be sorted out, however. As far as the \nCopts are concerned, there were three ecumenical councils, whily the \nByzantine Orthodox acknowledge seven.", "\n\t(2) is a corrallary of (1).\n\n\tThe negation of (2) would contridict (1).\n\n\n (2) Is a corrallary of (1)\n\n The negation of (2) would contradict (1).\n--\n\n\n \"Satan and the Angels do not have freewill. \n They do what god tells them to do. \"", "I recently came across this article which I found interesting. I have \nposted it to hear what other people feel about the issue.\n\nI realise it is rather long (12 pages in Wordperfect) by may well be worth \nthe read.\n\nExcept for the first page (which I typed) the rest was scanned inusing \nOmnipage. Some of the f's have come out as t's and visa-versa. I have tried \nto correct as much as possible.\n\n\nABOUT THE AUTHOR\n\nPeter Hammond is the founder of Frontline Fellowship, a\nmissionary organisation witnessing to the communist countries in\nSouthern Africa. He has also made several visits to many East\nEuropean countries.\n\nFRONTLINE FELLOWSHIP NEWS ISSN 1018-144X\n\nPRAYING FOR JUSTICE\n(by Peter Hammond)\n\nTo those involved in ministering to Christians suffering\npersecution the imprecatory Psalms are a tremendous source of\ncomfort. And those of us who are fighting for the right to life\nof the preborn, or battling social evils such as pornography or\ncrime, are beginning to appreciate what an important weapon God\nhas entrusted to us in the imprecatory Psalms.\n\n\nTHE IMPRECATORY PSALMS\n\nEarly in my Christian walk I encountered the prayers for\njudgement in the Psalms and was quite at loss to know how to\nrespond to them. Prayers such as:\n\"Break the arm of the wicked and evil men; call him to account for\nhis wickedness ...\" Psalm 10:15 did not seem consistent with the\ngospel of love which I had accepted. Yet Psalm 10:15 was clearly\nmotivated by love for God (\"The Lord is King for ever and ever;\nthe nation will perish from His land\" 10:16, and \"Why does the\nwicked man revile God? 10:13), and by love for the innocent who\nsuffer (\"You hear, O Lord, the desire of the afflicted; You\nencourage them, and You listen to their cry, defending the\nfatherless and oppressed, in order that man, who is of the earth,\nmay terrify no more.\" 10:17-18)\n\nNevertheless, I grew increasingly uncomfortable reading such\ngraphic prayers for God to judge the wicked as: \"Pour out your\nwrath on them; let Your fierce anger overtake them\" 64:24; \"O\nLord, the God avenges, O God who avenges, shine forth. Rise up, O\nJudge of the earth, pay back to the proud what they deserve.\"\n95:1-2; \"Break the teeth in their mouths, O God; ...let them\nvanish like water .. let their arrows be blunted ... The\nrighteous will be glad when they are avenged, when they bathe\ntheir feet in the blood of the wicked. Then men will way, \"Surely\nthe righteous still are rewarded; surely there is a God who\njudges the earth.'\" 58:6-11\n\nCertainly I wanted God to be honoured and yes I was deeply\ndestressed by the prevalence of evil - but could I actually pray\nfor God to \"pour out His wrath\" on the wicked?\n\nThe scripture make it clear that these prayers are not to be\nprayed for own selfish motives, nor against our personal enemies.\nRather they are to be prayed in Christ, for His glory and against\nHis enemies. The psalmist describes the targets of these\nimprecation as: those who devise injustice in their heart and\nwhose hands mete out violence (58:2) those who \"boast of evil\"\nand \"are a disgrace in the eyes of God. Your tongue plots\ndestruction, it is like a sharpened razor, and you who practise\ndeceit. You love evil rather than good, falsehood rather than\nspeaking the truth.\" 52:1-3; \"They crush your people ... They\nslay the widow and the alien; they murder the fatherless.\" 94:5-\n6; \"With cunning they conspire against Your people; they plot\nagainst those You cherish.\" 83:3; \"You hate all who do wrong. You\ndestroy those who tell lies; bloodthirsty and deceitful men the\nLord abhors.\" 5:5-6.\n\nTo those unrepentant enemies of God the psalmist declares:\n\"Surely God will bring you down to everlasting ruin\" 52:5;\n\"Surely God will crush the heads of His enemies ... of those who\ngo on in their sins\" 68:21.\n\nAnd the purpose of these prayers for justice is declared: \"Then\nit will be known to the ends of the earth that God rules ...\"\n59:13; \"to proclaim the powers of God\" 68:34; \"All kings will bow\ndown to Him and all nations will serve Him \" 72:11; \"Who knows\nthe power of Your anger? For Your wrath is as great as the fear\nthat is due You. \" 90:11\n\nYet despite the fact that 90 of the 150 Psalms include\nimprecations (prayers invoking God's righteous judgement upon the\nwicked) such prayers are rare in the average Western church.\nHowever, amongst the persecuted churches these prayers are much\nmore common.\n\n\nPRAYING AGAINST THE PERSECUTORS\n\nAmidst the burnt out churches and devastation of Marxist Angola I\nfound the survivors of communist persecution including the\ncrippled and maimed, and widows and orphans praying for God to\nstrike down the wicked and remove the persecutors of the Church.\nI was shocked - yet it was Biblical (Even the martyrs in heaven\npray \"How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge\nthe inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?\" Revelation\n6:10).\n\nThe initiator of the communist persecution in Angola was Agestino\nNeto. Described as a \"drunken, psychotic, marxist poet\", Neto had\nbeen installed by Cuban troops as the first dictator of Angola.\nHe boasted that: \"Within 20 years there won't be a Bible or a\nchurch left in Angola. I will have eradicated Christianity.\" Yet\ndespite the vicious wave of church burning and massacres it is\nnot Christianity that was eradicated in Angola but Agestino Neto.\nNeto died in mysterious circumstances on an operating table in\nMoscow.\n\nIn Romania I learnt of a series of remarkable incidents recorded\nof God judging the persecutors of the Church in answer to prayer:\n * A communist official ordered a certain pastor to be\n arrested. the next day the official died of a heart attack.\n * Another communist party official ordered that all the Bibles\n in his district were to be collected and pulped, to be\n turned into toilet paper. This blasphemous project was in\n fact carried out. But the next day when the official was\n medically examined, he was informed that he had terminal\n cancer. He died shortly afterwards.\n * On another occasion, a communist official who had ordered a\n Baptist church to be demolished by bulldozers died in a car\n crash the very next day.\n * When an order was given to dismantle a place of worship on\n the mountainside in a forest, the workmen flatly refused to\n carry out the order. At gunpoint a group of conscripted\n gypsies also refused to touch the church. In desperation,\n the communist police forced prisoners at bayonet-point to\n dismantle the structure. Yet the officer in charge pleaded\n with the local Christians to pray for him, that God would\n not judge him. He emphasised that he had nothing against\n Christians and was only obeying strict orders. The building\n was in fact reconstructed later, and again used for worship.\n \"They were all seized with Sear and the Name of the Lord\n Jesus was held in high honour... in this way the Word of the\n Lord spread widely and grew in power. \" Acts 19:17,20\n\nNicolae Ceaucescu the dictator who ordered much of the\npersecution in Romania was overthrown by his own army and\nexecuted on Christmas day, 1989, to joyous shouts of \"the\nantiChrist is dead\" in the streets. Many testified that this was\nin answer to the fervent prayers of the long suffering people of\nRomania.\n\nAnother persecutor of the Church who challenged God was Samora\nMachel, the first dictator of Marxist Mozambique. Samora Machel\nwas a cannibal who ate human flesh in witchcraft ceremonies in\nthe 1960's. He pledged his soul to Satan and vowed that he would\ndestroy the Church and turn Mozambique into the first truly\nMarxist-Leninist state in Africa. Thousands of churches in\nMozambique were closed confiscated, \"nationalised\" chained and\npadlocked, burnt down or boarded up. Missionaries were expelled,\nsome being imprisoned first. Evangelism was forbidden. Bibles\nwere ceremonially burnt and tens of thousands of Christians,\nincluding many pastors and elders, were shipped off to\nconcentration camps - most were never seen again.\n\nA month before his sudden death Samora Machel cursed God publicly\nand challenged Him to prove His existence by striking him\n(Machel) dead. On 19 October 1986, while several churches were\nspecifically praying for God to stop the persecution in\nMozambique, Machel's Soviet Tupelov aircraft crashed in a violent\nthunderstorm. The plane crashed 200 metres within South Africa's\nboundary with Mozambique. Amidst the wreckage the marxist plans\nfor overthrowing the government of Malawi were discovered and\npublished. Not only had God judged a blasphemer and a persecutor,\nbut He had also saved a country from persecution.\n\nIn the months leading up to the first multi-party elections in\nZambia many churches fasted and prayed tor God to remove the 27\nyear socialist dictatorship of Kenneth Kaunda. This was done on\n31st October 1991 when Fredrick Chiluba (a man converted to\nChrist whilst imprisoned for opposing Kaunda) was elected\npresident of Zambia and covenanted to make Zambia a Christian\ncountry.\n\nIt is recorded in history that the wicked Mary, Queen of Scots,\ndeclared trembling and in tears: \"I am more afraid of John Knox's\nprayers than of an army of ten thousand\".\n\nOn 3 April 1993 the Secretary General of the South African\nCommunist Party Chris Hani was shot dead. From the unprecedented\ninternational wave of condolences and adulation reported one\ncould be forgiven for assuming that this man was a saint and a\nmartyr. Certainly it was not the death and resurrection of Christ\nJesus which dominated the thoughts and headlines of South Africa\nthis Easter, but the assassination of Chris Hani.\n\nThe stunning hypocrisy of the situation is that 20 135 people\nwere murdered in South Africa in 1992, yet more collective\nconcern and anguish were reported over the death of the head of\nthe SA Communist Party than for all the thousands of other\nvictims. Indeed the SA government, the international community\nand the mass media have apparently had greater sorrow reported\nover this one death than for all the 50 000 South Africans\nmurdered since 2nd February 1990 when the ANC, SACP and PAC were\nunbanned!\n\nYet as a member of the ANC Revolutionary Council since 1973,\nDeputy Commander of Umkhonto we Sizwe (MK) the ANC's \"military\nwing\" - from 1982, and Chief of Staff of MK from 1987, Chris Hani\nhad approved and ordered bombings and assassinations of many\nunarmed civilians. As Jesus warned: \"all who live by the sword\nwill die by the sword \" Matt 26:52.\n\nAfter personally confronting Hani about his terrorist activities\nat a press conference in Washington DC (where he publicly\ndeclared his support for Fidel Castro, Col. Gaddafi, Yasser\nArafat and Saddam Hussein and defended the placing of car bombs\nand limpet mines in public places during \"the struggle\") I told\nhim that I was a Christian and, while I didn't hate him, I did\nhate communism and I was praying for him - that God would either\nbring him to repentance and salvation in Christ, or that God\nwould remove him. He responded by swearing and declaring that he\nwas an atheist.\n\nSeveral other people also prayed that God would either bring Hani\nto repentance or remove him. Similarly several churches in\nAmerica have begun to pray the imprecatory Psalms against\nunrepentant abortionists. In one town 8 abortionists were struck\ndown, with heart attacks, strokes, car accidents and cancer,\nwithin months of these public prayers for God to stop these\nkillers of preborn babies.\n\nSome praised God for His righteous acts of judgement and quoted:\n\"When justice is done, it brings joy to the righteous and terror\nto evildoers \" Proverbs 21:15. Others were shocked that any\nChristian could express satisfaction at the misfortune of any -\neven of the blatantly wicked. Yet the Apostles prayed imprecatory\nprayers (Acts 13:8-12; Galatians 1:8-9; 2 Tim 4:14-15) and so did\nour Lord (Matt 11:20-24).\n\nWhat then should our attitude towards the imprecatory Psalms be?\nShould we be praying the Psalms? To tackle these thorny issues I\nwould like to present a short summary of an excellent book, \"War\nPsalms of the Prince of Peace - Lessons From The Imprecatory\nPsalms\" by James E Adams, (published by the Presbyterian and\nReformed Publishing Company):\n\nOur Lord Jesus Christ & His apostles used the Psalms constantly\nin teaching men to know God. The New Testament (NT) quotes the\nOld Testament (OT) over 283 times. 41% of all OT quotes in the NT\nare from the Psalms. Christ Himself alluded to the Psalms over 50\ntimes. The Psalms are the Prayer Book of the Bible.\n\n\n1. Are the imprecatory Psalms the oracles of God?\n\nSome Christian commentators & theologians reject these Psalms as\n\"devilish\", \"diabolical \", \"unsuited to the church\", and \"Not God\n's pronouncements of His wrath on the wicked; but the prayers of\na man for vengeance on his enemies, just the opposite of Jesus'\nteaching that we should love our enemies. \"\n\nYet 2 Tim 3:16-17 declares:\n\"All Scripture is God breathed and is useful for teaching,\nrebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the\nman of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. \"\n(see also 2 Peter 3:15-16).\n\nThe fact that something in the Word of God is beyond our\ncomprehension is not grounds to denying or even questioning its\ninspiration. To make ourselves the judge of what is good or evil\nis to impudently take the place of God.\n\nDo we imagine ourselves to be holier than God? Wrong ideas of God\nhave led many to become \"evangelic plastic surgeons who have made\nit their job to \"clean up\" God's Word according to their own\nideas of what is proper. They have forgotten that it is God alone\nwho must determine what Christianity is and what is suitable for\nHis Church. The essence of what many have done is to question the\nauthority of God's Word (like Eve's original sin of listening to\nSatan's question \"Yes, hath God said... ?\").\n\nThe Psalms are part of God's revelation of Himself and His\nattributes, and they are reaffirmed by the NT as the\nauthoritative Word of God. Those imprecatory Psalms which these\nevangelical plastic surgeons reject as \"unsuited\" and \"unworthy\"\nfor the Church are the very Psalms Christ used to testify about\nHimself (eg: Mark 12:36; Matt 22:43-44) and which the Apostles\nused as authoritative Scripture (eg: Acts 1:16-20; Acts 4:25; Heb\n4:7). See also: 2 Samuel 23:1-2.\n\nCH Spurgeon said concerning the imprecatory Psalms, (especially\nPs 109):\n\"Truly this is one of the hard places of Scripture, a passage\nwhich the soul trembles to read, yet it is not ours to sit in\njudgement upon it, but to bow our ear to what the Lord would\nspeak to us therein. \"\n\nThe rejection of any part of God's Word is a rejection of the\ngiver of that Word, God Himself.\n\n\n2. Who is praying these Psalms?\n\nChrist quoted the Psalms not merely as prophesy; He actually\nspoke the Psalms as His own words. The Psalms occupied an\nenormous place in the life of our Lord. He used it as His prayer\nbook and song book - from the Synagogue to the festivals and at\nthe Last Supper.\n\nOn the cross Christ quoted from the Psalms - not as some ancient\nauthority that He adapted for His own use, but as His very own\nwords - the words of the Lord's Anointed - which as David's Son\nHe truly was.\n\"Father, into your hands I commit my Spirit\" Ps 31:5\n\"My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?\" Ps 22:1\n\nIn His ministry Christ foretells what He will say as the Judge on\nthe day of judgement, and He quotes the Psalms in doing so!\nMatt 7:23 \"Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away\nfrom me, you evildoers'. \" Ps 6:8\n\nIn Heb 10:5 the apostle attributes Ps 40:6-8 directly to Christ\nalthough nowhere in the Gospels is Christ recorded as having said\nthese words. Similarly Hebrews 2 : 12 attributes Ps 22:22\ndirectly to Christ despite there being no record of His having\nspoken these words while on earth. Clearly the apostles believed\nChrist is speaking in the Psalms.\n\nChrist came to establish His kingdom and to extend His mercy in\nall the earth. But let us never forget that Jesus will come again\nto execute Judgement on the wicked.\nDavid as the anointed king of the chosen people of God was a\nprototype of Jesus Christ. Acts 2:30:\n\"being therefore a prophet, ... he foresaw and spoke of the\nresurrection of Christ. \"\nDavid was a witness to Christ in his office, in his lite, and in\nhis words. The same words which David spoke, the future Messiah\nspoke through him. The prayers of David were prayed also by\nChrist. Or better Christ Himself prayed these Psalms through His\nforerunner David.\n\nThe imprecatory Psalms are expressions of the infinite justice of\nGod, of His indignation against wrong doing, and His compassion\nfor the wronged.\n\n\n3. But what about the Psalms of repentance?\n\nChrist is also the Lamb of God, the substitutionary sacrifice for\nour sins. Christ in the day of His crucifixion was charged with\nthe sin of His people. He appropriated to Himself those debts for\nwhich He had made Himself responsible. Our Lord was the\nsubstitution for the sinner. He took the sinners place (Isaiah\n53).\n\n\"God made Him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in Him we\nmight become the righteousness of God. \" 2 Cor 5:21\n\nIn history the Psalms, especially the imprecatory Psalms, have\nbeen understood to have been the prayers of Christ by: St\nAugustine, Jerome, Ambrose, Tertullian, Luther and many others.\nAll the Psalms are the voice of Christ. Christ is praying the\nimprecatory Psalms! All the Psalms are messianic. It is the Lord\nJesus Christ who is praying these prayers of vengeance. It is\nonly right for the righteous King of Peace to ask God to destroy\nHis enemies.\n\nThese prayers signal an alarm to all who are still enemies of\nKing Jesus. His prayers will be answered! God's Word is revealed\nupon all who oppose Christ. Anyone who rejects God's way of\nforgiveness in the cross of Christ will bear the dreadful curses\nof God.\n\nHe who prays Psalm 69:23-28 will one day make this prayer a\nreality when He declares to those on His left:\n\"Depart from me you who are cursed into the eternal fire prepared\nfor the devil and his angels. \" Matt 25:41\n\nAll the enemies of the Lord need to hear these Psalms. *God's\nKingdom is at War.* The powers of evil will tall and God alone\nwill reign forever!\n\"With justice He judges and makes war...out of His mouth comes a\nsharp sword with which to strike down the nations. He will rule\nthem with an iron sceptre; He treads the winepress of the fury of\nthe wrath of God Almighty...King of Kings and Lord of Lords. \"\nRev 19 : 15\n\n\n4. Are Jesus' prayers contradictory?\n\nWhat about Jesus' command to love our enemies and to bless those\nwho curse us (Matt 5:44)?\n\nChrist is of course the loving and merciful Saviour who forgives\nsin; but He is also the awesome Judge who is coming in Judgement\non those who disobey His Gospel.\n\n\"God is just. He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you\nand give relief to you who are troubled...This will happen when\nthe Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with His\npowerful angels. He will punish those who do not obey the Gospel\nof our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting\ndestruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from\nthe majesty of His power on the day He comes to be glorified in\nHis holy people and to be marvelled at among au those who have\nbelieved. \" 2 Thess 1:6-10\n\nJesus has power on earth to forgive sins, and He has power on\nearth to execute judgement upon His enemies. In the Psalms we see\nboth the vengeance and the love ot God.\n\nEven in the N.T. & in the Gospels we see imprecations.\n\"Woe to you,...hypocrites...blind guides...blind fools...full of\ngreed and self indulgence...whitewashed tombs...you snakes! You\nbrood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to Hell ? \"\nMatt 23\n\nIn Matt 26:23-24 Christ quotes from Ps 69 and 109 to refer to His\nbetrayal by Judas.\n\nWe also need to acknowledge that Christ's prayers of blessing are\nnot for all. In John 17:6-9 it is clear that Christ is only\npraying to the elect of God - those who have:\n\"obeyed your Word\"... \"accepted\" God's Word ... and have\n\"believed \". (see Luke 10:8-16 - Those who reject the\nmessage of God's kingdom will be judged.)\n\n\n5. May we pray the imprecatory Psalms?\n\nMartin Luther pointed out that when one prays: \"Hallowed be Thy\nName, Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done \" then \"he must put all\nthe opposition to this in one pile and say: 'Curses, maledictions\nand disgrace upon every other name and every other kingdom. May\nthey be ruined and torn apart and may all their schemes and\nwisdom and plans run aground' . \"\n\nTo pray tor the extension of God's kingdom is to solicit the\ndestruction of all other kingdoms, eg: Dan 2:44: \"The God of\nheaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed ... it\nwill crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it\nwill itself endure forever. \"\n\n* Advance and victory for the Church means defeat and retreat for\nthe kingdom of darkness. *\n\nThere is a life & death struggle between two kingdoms. The Church\ncannot exclude hatred tor satan's kingdom from its love for God's\nkingdom. God's kingdom cannot come without satan's kingdom being\ndestroyed. God's will cannot be done on earth without the\ndestruction of evil. The glory of God demands the destruction of\nevil. Instead of being influenced by a sickly sentimentalism\nwhich insists upon the assumed, but really non-existent, rights\nof man - we should focus instead upon the rights of God.\n\nNote Psalm 83 where the Psalmist prays against those who \"plot\ntogether\" against God and His people:\n\"Cover their faces with shame so that men will seek your Name O\nLord... Do to them as You did to Midian, as you did to Sisera and\nJabin at the river Kishon, who perished at Endor and became like\nrefuse on the ground. \"\n\nThe story of Sisera in the book of Judges (Chapter 4 and 5)\nprovides a vivid example of God's judgement on the wicked. Sisera\n\"cruelly oppressed the Israelites for twenty years\" and they\n\"cried to the Lord for help\" Judges 4:3. In response to those\nprayers: \"The Lord routed Sisera and all his chariots and army by\nthe sword, and Sisera abandoned his chariot and fled on foot...\nAll the troops of Sisera fell by the sword; not a man was left. \"\nJudges 4:15-16\n\nThe account then goes on to describe how Sisera escaped to the\ntent of Jael where she lulled him into a false sense of safety\nand then drove a tent peg through his temple with a hammer. The\nsong of victory by Deborah and Barak celebrated the crushing of\nthe head of Sisera in graphic detail (Judges 5:25-27). And it is\nthis that Psalm 83 implores God to again do to His enemies.. \"As\nyou did to Sisera ...\"\n\n\n6. The blessings of obedience and the curse of disobedience\n\nThe imprecatory Psalms are fully consistent with the Law of God:\n \"If you do not carefully follow all the words of this Law,\n which are written in this book, and do not revere this\n glorious and awesome Name - the Lord your God - the Lord\n will send fearful plagues on you and your descendants. He\n will bring upon you all the diseases of Egypt that you\n dreaded, and they will cling to you. The Lord will also\n bring on you every kind of sickness and disaster not\n recorded in this Book of the Law until you are\n destroyed...because you did not obey the Lord your God ...\n so it will please Him to ruin and destroy you. You will be\n uprooted from the land you are entering to possess. \"\n Deuteronomy 28:58-63\n\nThe covenant God made with His people included curses for\ndisobedience as well as blessings for obedience. Deuteronomy 27\nrecords the formal giving and receiving of the covenant terms in\nan awesome account:\n\"The Levites shall recite to all the people of Israel in a loud\nvoice:\n\"Cursed is the man who carves an image or casts an idol - a thing\ndetestable to the Lord, the work of the craftsman's hands - and\nsets it up in secret. \"\nThen all the people shall say, \"Amen!\" \"\n\"Cursed is the man who dishonours his father or his mother...\n\"Cursed is the man who moves his neighbour's boundary stone...\n\"Cursed is the man who leads the blind astray on the roads...\n\"Cursed is the man who withholds justice from the alien, the\nfatherless or the widow...\n\"Cursed is the man who kills his neighbour secretly...\n\"Cursed is the man who accepts a bribe to kill an innocent\nperson.\n\"Cursed is the man who does not uphold the words of the Law by\ncarrying them out.\nThen all the people shall say, \"Amen!\" \" Deut 27:14-26\n\nThe New Testament confirms that the inevitable consequence of\nrejecting Christ is the curse. \"If anyone does not love the\nLord - a curse be on him. \" 1 Corinthians 16:22\n\n(See also: Romans 12:19-21; Hebrews 1:1-3; 3:7-12; 3:1519; 10:26-\n31; 12:14-29.)\n\n\n7. How can we preach these prayers?\n\nThe Church of Jesus Christ is an army under orders.\nScripture constitutes the official dispatch from the Commander-\nin-Chief. But we have a problem: those who are called to pass on\nthose orders to others are refusing to do so. How then can we\nexpect to be a united, effective army? Is it any wonder that the\ntroops have lost sight of their commission to demolish the\nstrongholds of the kingdom of darkness? If the Church does not\nhear the battle cries of her Captain, how will she follow Him\nonto the battlefield?\n\nPastors are commissioned to pass on the orders of the Church's\nCommander, never withholding or changing His words. One whose job\nis to carry dispatches to troops in wartime would face certain\nand severe punishment if he dared to amend the general's orders.\nThe pastor's charge is of greater importance than that of a\ncourier in any earthly army. There's no place tor the dispatcher\nto decide he doesn't agree with his Commander's strategy.\n\nWhen Jesus Christ sent seventy-two disciples on a preaching\nmission, He told them to proclaim the coming of God's Kingdom (Lk\n10:9) - that is, to announce that people must submit to God's\nrule in their lives. Jesus instructed them to pray for peace on\nany house they approach, assuring them that if anyone rejected\nit, the peace would return on the disciples (verse 5). But we\nmust consider what He said they should do if their message were\nrejected - that is, if the hearers persisted in rebellion against\nGod's rule - \"But when you enter a town and are not welcomed, go\ninto its 'streets and say, 'Even the dust of your town that\nsticks to our feet we wipe off against you. Yet be sure of this:\nThe kingdom of God is near\"' Luke 10:11.\n\nWhat would be the result of that denunciation? I tell you, it\nwill be more bearable on that day for Sodom [on which God sent\nfire from Heaven in judgement for its wickedness] than for that\ntown (verse 12). Immediately Jesus added curses on Korazin,\nBethsaida, and Capernaum tor their rejection of His message\n(verses 13-15). He then explained to the disciples the great\nauthority He had given them: \"He who listens to you listens to\nMe; he who rejects you rejects Me; but he who rejects Me rejects\nhim who sent Me \" (verse 16). This is the fundamental basis tor\ncalling down God's curses on anyone: his persistent rebellion\nagainst God's authority expressed in His Law and the ministry of\nHis servants.\n\nWe need to clearly and forcefully proclaim the war cries of the\nPrince of Peace. Only then will the Church awake from its\nlethargy and once again enter the battle. If we tail to pass on\nthe battle cry then a lack of urgency and confusion in the ranks\nwill be inevitable.\n\nLike Psalm 1 our preaching needs to clearly show the blessings of\nobedience and the curse of disobedience. The eternal truth is\nthat God cannot be mocked. Whatever a man sows - that shall he\nreap (Galatians 6:7). The curses pronounced on disobedience in\nDeut 28:47-53 were fulfilled in detail in Samaria (2 Kings\n6:2&29) and in Judea (AD 70). The wrath of God upon covenant\nbreakers is real.\n\nThe \"I\" of the Psalms is Jesus Christ. The \"we\" of the Psalms\nincludes those of us in the Lord Jesus. The enemies are not our\nown, individually, but those of the Lord and of His Church. The\nPsalms are ot Christ as Prophet, Priest, and King. They record\nChrist's march in victory against the kingdom of darkness. As\nChrist is the author of the Psalms, so, too, is He the final\nfulfilment of the covenant on which they are based. God will\nanswer the psalmist's prayers completely in Jesus Christ on the\nfinal day of judgment. While on earth Jesus foretold the day when\nHe will say: \"But those enemies of Mine who did not want Me to be\nKing over them - bring them here and kill them in front of Me\"\nLuke 19:27.\n\nA fatal end awaits everyone who refuses to acknowledge and to\nobey Jesus as King and Lord. Hearing expositions of these war\npsalms of the Prince of Peace will remind His people that God's\nkingdom is at war! The kingdom of darkness is being overcome by\nthe kingdom of Jesus Christ, a war in which each local\ncongregation of believers plays a vital part. You must rally your\nbattalion to put on the whole armour of God, including \"the sword\nof the Spirit, which is the Word of God \" Eph 6:17. That battle-\nreadiness also involves \"pray(ing) in the Spirit on all occasions\nwith all kinds of prayers and requests n Eph 6:18.\n\nChrist teaches His army to pray for the utter destruction of the\nenemies of God as the psalmist did: \"Pour out Your wrath on the\nnations that do not acknowledge You, on the kingdoms that do not\ncall on Your Name\" Ps 79:6.\n\nTo deal with the very real hurts and injustices in this world it\nis necessary for us to pray for God's justice. Those who are\npersecuted need the comfort of these prayers.\n\n\"Let the saints rejoice in His honour and sing for joy...May the\npraise of God be in their mouths and a double-edged sword in\ntheir hands, to inflict vengeance on the nations and punishment\non the peoples, to bind their kings with fetters, their nobles\nwith shackles of iron, to carry out the sentences written against\nthem. This is the glory of all His saints. Praise the Lord. \" Ps\n149:5-9\n\nPrayer is, in fact, spiritual warfare. One weapon is prayer for\nconversion of spiritual enemies; another is prayer for judgement\non those who finally refuse to be converted. We handicap the army\nof God when we refuse to use both of these great weapons that He\nhas given us. It is at all times a part of the task of the people\nnf God to destroy evil.\n\nIf you have been guilty of dulling your sword, by neglecting or\nundermining these psalms, repent of that sin, sharpen your sword\nanew, and go forth to do battle in the Name and for the Glory of\nJesus - until \"the knowledge of the Lord will cover the earth as\nthe waters cover the sea\" Hab 2:14.\n\nThe full book \"War Psalms of the Prince of Peace \" is available,\nat R25, from Frontline Fellowship, PO Box 74 Newlands, 7725 RSA.\n", ": In article , bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu\n: > I'd say that what one chooses to observe and how the observation is\n: > interpreted and what significance it's given depends a great deal on\n: > the values of the observer. Science is a human activity and as such,\n: > is subject to the same potential for distortion as any other human\n: > activity. The myth that scientists are above moral influence or\n: > ethical concern, that their knowledge can be abstacted whole and pure\n: > from nature untainted by the biases of the scientist, is nonsense.\n\n: Bill, this is wonderfully phrased. I assume you understand that your\n: statement is also undermining such human constructs as religion\n: as well.\n\n\nKent,\n\nI'll accept this as a compliment although I'm always a little paranoid\nwhen visiting a.a, thanks. Yes I do know the extent of the statements\nrelevence, it's what I think of as human nature. I'm not sure it\nundermines either religion or atheism since both claim special\nknowledge about the Truth and since such claims are always suspect,\nall we can learn from it is that humans are a very arrogant species.\nMy point is that we cannot ignore human nature when examining human\nclaims. The trick here then, is to find some way to abstract our\ninfinitely fallible nature from whatever reality is out there so we\ncan see what there is to see. I can think of no way this can be done.", "[stuff deleted...]\n\nThat's like saying that, since mathematics includes no instructions on\nhow to act, it is evil. Atheism is not a moral system, so why should\nit speak of instructions on how to act? *Atheism is simply lack of\nbelief in God*.\n\n Plenty of theists\n\nI think the argument that a particular theist system causes genocide\ncan be made more convincingly than an argument that atheism causes genocide.\nThis is because theist systems contain instructions on how to act,\nand one or more of these can be shown to cause genocide. However, since\nthe atheist set of instructions is the null set, how can you show that\natheism causes genocide?\n--\nDavid Choweller (davec@silicon.csci.csusb.edu)\n\nThere are scores of thousands of human insects who are\nready at a moment's notice to reveal the Will of God on\nevery possible subject. --George Bernard Shaw.", " God is eternal. [A = B]\n:> Jesus is God. [C = A]\n:> Therefore, Jesus is eternal. [C = B]\n\n:> This works both logically and mathematically. God is of the set of\n:> things which are eternal. Jesus is a subset of God. Therefore\n:> Jesus belongs to the set of things which are eternal.\n\nEverything isn't always so logical....\n\nMercedes is a car.\nThat girl is Mercedes.\nTherefore, that girl is a car?", "\n\nSorry, you're right. I did not clearly state it.\n\n\n\nThe most common form of condescending is the rational versus irrational\nattitude. Once one has accepted the _assumption_ that there is no god(s),\nand then consider other faiths to be irrational simply because their\nassumption(s) contradict your assumption, then I would say there's a\nlack of consistency here.\n\nNow I know you'll get on me about faith. If the _positive_ belief that God\ndoes not exist were a closed, logical argument, why do so many rational\npeople have problems with that \"logic\"?\n\nBut you, probably like me, seem to be a soft atheist. Sorry for the flamage.\n\n\n;) What is the CLIPPER project BTW?\n\n\n\nIt might have appeared to attack atheism in general, but its point was\nthat mass killing happens for all sorts of reasons. People will hate who\nthey will and will wave whatever flag to justify it, be it cross or\nhammer&sickle. The Stalin example _is_ important not only because it's\nstill a widely unappreciated era that people want to forget but also\nbecause people really did love him and his ideas, even after all that he\nhad wrought.\n\n\nFirst, all the pink crows/unicorns/elves arguments in the world will not\nsway most people, for they simply do not accept the analogy. Why?\n\nOne of the big reasons is that many, many people want something\nbeyond this life. You can pretend that they don't want this, but I for\none can accept it and even want it myself sometimes.\n\nAnd there is nothing unique in this example of why people want a God.\nCan love as a truth be proven, logically?\n\n\n\nJohn the Baptist boasted of Jesus to many people. I find it hard to see\nhow that behavior is arrogant at all. Many Christians I know also boast\nin this way, but I still do not necessarily see it as arrogance. Of course,\nI do know arrogant Christians, doctors, and teachers as well. Technically,\nyou might consider the person who originally made a given claim to be arrogant,\nJesus, for instance.\n\n\nI speak against strong atheism. I also often find that the evidence\nsupporting a faith is very subjective, just as, say, the evidence supporting\nlove as truth is subjective.\n\n\nNo apology necessary. :)\n--\nBake Timmons, III", "# Are there any places in the Bible where the commandment \"Thou \n# shalt not kill\" is specifically applied? That is, where someone \n# refrained from killing because he remembered the commandment.\n\n No, for the excellent reason that there IS no such commandment.\n\n Aside from that, please note that the Abrahamic literary tradition\n is strong on narrative, light on dialog, and virtually nonexistent\n w/r/t introspection.", "\nSo when they took the time to *copy* *the* *text* correctly, that includes\n\"obvious corruptions?\"\n\n\nSo when they took the time to *copy* *the* *text* correctly, that does not\nexclude \"variant readings from the masoretic text\" which are \"of little \ntheological import\"\n\n\nHey, you're the expert.", "\n\nThe book is called \"27 basic fundamental beliefs\" or something very close to \nthat. the number *IS* 27, not 30. I have a copy at home (i'm away at \nschool.)", "\nI don't agree, but I can only speak for myself. I have a good friend\nwhose lifestyle is very sinful. Do I hate the things she does to herself\nand others? Yes. Do I hate her? Absolutely not. In fact, she tells me\nrepeatedly that I am the best friend she has in the world. I care about\nher very much despite the fact that I hate how she lives her life.\n\nIt's very easy to fall into the progression you describe above. I've\nfelt it with my friend more than once. There is a very important \npart of Christianity that you've overlooked above and makes it possible\nto \"love the sin but hate the sinner.\" Before I look at someone\nelse's life and sin, I look to myself and am as disgusted by what I see\nin *me* as I see in others, probably more. Self-righteousness is\ncontradictory to Christianity and is what makes the progression you\ndescribe happen. If a Christian can truthfully quote Paul and say, \"Wretched\nman that I am!\" [Romans 7:24 (NASB)], that Christian will be able\nto love the sinner and hate the sin. If we have the attitude of the Pharisee \nwho said, \"I thank Thee that I am not like other men...\" [Luke 18:11 (NASB)],\nwe will hate both.\n\n -- Scott at Brandeis", "This is a RFD on a proposal for a newsgroup which would promote a \nsharing on the \"Johannine hours\" as proposed each month by the monks of \nthe ecumenical community of Taize (pronounced te-zay) in France.\n\nNAME OF PROPOSED NEWSGROUP: \n==========================\n\nsoc.religion.taize (Unmoderated)\n\n\nPURPOSE OF THE GROUP: \n====================\n\nThe Taize Community is an international ecumenical community of monks \nbased in France. Many young adults come there to search for meaning in \ntheir life and to deepen their understanding of their faith through a \nsharing with others. This newsgroup will allow such a sharing through a \nmonthly \"Johannine Hour\" which will be posted at the beginning of each \nmonth. A \"Johannine hour\" involves a short commentary on a given Bible \npassage, followed by some questions for reflection. Any thoughts that \nmay arise in consequence and that you wish to share with others can be \nposted here. We are not interested in theological debate, and even less \nin polemics. No expertise is required! The idea is to help one another \nto deepen our understanding of Scripture as it is related to our own \nlife-journey.\n\nThe idea of \"Johannine hours\" was born in Taize as a simple response\nto all those who were trying to assimilate the Bible's message in the\nmidst of their daily life. Because of work or studies, it is often\nimpossible to spend long hours in silence and reflection, but\neveryone can take an hour from time to time to enter a church, sit\nquietly at home or go out for a walk in the woods. There, in silence,\nwe can meditate on a passage of Scripture to listen to the voice of\nChrist.\n\nDuring the time of silence, it is important to concentrate on what we \nunderstand and not waste time worrying if, in some Biblical expressions, \nwe find it difficult to hear the voice of Christ. The idea is to \ncommunicate to others what we have understood of Christ, not burdening \nthem with our own hesitations but rather telling them what has brought \nus joy, what has led us to run the risk of trusting more deeply.\n\nPerhaps those who read and think about the \"Johannine Hours\" in this\nnewsgroup could share their reflections and discoveries with others.\n\nThe important thing is the complementarity between two aspects, the\npersonal aspect of silent, personal reflection and the communal aspect\nof sharing, which through Usenet makes us a part of a worldwide network.\n\nBACKGROUND OF THE TAIZE COMMUNITY:\n=================================\n\nThe following provides some background information on the life and\nvocation of the Taize (pronounced te-zay) community.\n\n\"A PARABLE OF COMMUNION\": August 1940, with Europe in the grip of\nWorld War II, Brother Roger, aged 25, set up home in the almost\nabandoned village of Taize, in Eastern France. His dream: to bring\ntogether a monastic community which would live out \"a parable of\ncommunity\", a sign of reconciliation in the midst of the distress of\nthe time. Centering his life on prayer, he used his house to conceal\nrefugees, especially Jews fleeing from the Nazi occupation.\n\nAN INTERNATIONAL AND ECUMENICAL COMMUNITY: Taize's founder spent the\nfirst two years alone. Others joined him later and at Easter 1949,\nseven brothers committed themselves together to common life and\ncelibacy. Year by year, still others have entered the community, each\none making a lifelong commitment after several years of preparation.\nToday, there are 90 brothers, Catholics and from various Protestant\nbackgrounds, from over twenty different countries. Some of them are\nliving in small groups in poor neighbourhoods in Asia, Africa, North\nand South America. The brothers accept no donations or gifts for\nthemselves, not even family inheritances, and the community holds no\ncapital. The brothers earn their living and share with others\nentirely through their own work. In 1966, Sisters of Saint Andrew, an\ninternational Catholic community founded 750 years ago, came to live\nin the neighbouring village, to share the responsibility of welcoming\npeople in Taize.\n\nTAIZE AND THE YOUNG; THE INTERCONTINENTAL MEETINGS: Young adults, and\nless young, have been coming to Taize in ever greater numbers since\n1957. Hundreds of thousands of people from Europe and far beyond have\nthus been brought together in a common search. Intercontinental\nmeetings take place each week, Sunday to Sunday, throughout the year\nand they include youth from between 35 and 60 countries during any\none week. The meetings give each person the opportunity to explore\nthe roots of their faith and to reflect on how to unite the inner\nlife and human solidarity. The meetings in summer can have up to\n6,000 participants a week. Three times every day, the brothers and\neverybody on the hill come together for common prayer in the Church\nof Reconciliation, built in 1962 when the village church became too\nsmall.\n\n\"A PILGRIMAGE OF TRUST ON EARTH\" The community has never wanted to\ncreate a \"movement\" around itself. Instead, people are called to\ncommit themselves in their church at home, in their neighbourhood,\ntheir city or village. To support them in this, Taize has created\nwhat it calls \"a pilgrimage of trust on earth\". At the end of each\nyear, the pilgrimage has a \"European meeting\" which brings together\ntens of thousands of young adults from every part of Europe for\nseveral days in a major city. There have also been meetings in Asia\nand in the United States. Every year, Brother Roger writes an open\nletter to the young. Usually completed during a stay in one of the\npoor regions of the world, these are translated into thirty languages\nand provide themes for reflexion for the following year.\n\nNOTE: Discussion on the creation of this newsgroup will take place in \n news.groups.\n\nFor any further information contact: Brother.Roy@almac.co.uk\n\n brother.roy@almac.co.uk", "\n\nAssuming you are presenting it accurately, I don't see how this argument\nreally leads to any firm conclusion. The material in John (I'm not sure\nexactly what is referred to here, but I'll take for granted the similarity\nto the Matt./Luke \"Q\" material) IS different; hence, one could have almost\nany relationship between the two, right up to John getting it straight from\nJesus' mouth.\n\n\nThe version of the \"usual theory\" I have heard has Matthew and Luke\nindependently relying on Mark and \"Q\". One would think that if Luke relied\non Matthew, we wouldn't have the grating inconsistencies in the geneologies,\nfor one thing.\n\n\nThis is the part that is particularly new to me. If it were possible that\nyou could point me to a reference, I'd be grateful.\n\n\n\nBecause it closes up the gap between (supposed) writing and the existing\ncopy quit a bit. The further away from the original, the more copies can be\nwritten, and therefore survival becomes more probable.\n\n\n\n\nI'm not really impressed with the \"theology\" argument. But I'm really\npointing this out as an \"if\". And as I pointed out earlier, one cannot make\nthese arguments about I Peter; I see no reason not to accept it as an\nauthentic letter.\n\n\n\nThe best analogy would be reporters talking to the participants, which is\nnot so bad.\n\n\nBut the statement of divinity is not in that section, and in any case, it's\nagreed that the most important epistles predate Mark.", "\nProve it. I am an atheist. It doesn't mean I am for or against abortion.\n\n\nAn obvious effect of homosexuality is non-procreation. That, unlike your\nstatement, is a fact. Please prove that (a) homosexuality is defended as \nmeans of population control, (b) being atheist causes you to hold these\nbeliefs. I defend homosexuality because (a) what people do with their\nbodies is none of my business (b) I defend the equal rights of\nall humans. Do you?\n\n\nDefine values. Prove your statement.\n\n\nProve your statement. Electrons are waves. Electrons are particles. I \nbelieve in both. I have physical proof of both. I have no proof of god(tm)\nonly an ancient book. That is not indicative of the existence of a being\nwith omnipotence or omnipresence. And, by your own argument, christians\ndon't exist.\n\n\n\nFirst of all, your earlier statements have absolutely nothing to do\nwith your question. Why did you post them? To show that athiests,\nbesides not existing (your view), are more humane than christians/other\nreligions?\n\n\nSecondly I am very much for the control of population growth.\n\nThe logic that you cannot grasp indicates ignorance of contraception.\nBut of course, this is 'outlawed' (sometimes literally) by religion\nsince if it can't create more followers, it will die.\n\nI\n", " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nWhen are we going to hear a Christian answer to this question? \n\nIn paraphrase: ", "Please realize that I am frequently getting in trouble for\nstraying from orthodoxy, but here is my opinion:\n\n\nI never thought of these two ideas being \"against\" each other.\nPeople might quibble about what \"intrinsically\" means but the\nreason we are sinners is because we do not behave as good as we\nare. The message of Christ is that each of us are not only good,\nbut great, that we can approach perfection, albeit perhaps through a \ndifferent technique than you claim Buddhism teaches. Because we do\nnot realize our greatness, we sin. Peter had no problem walking \non water until a little doubt crept in.\n\nDoesn't David ask in the 8th Psalm \"what is man that you [God] \nshould care for him, but you have made him just a little lower \nthan the angels\"?\n\nI probably exagerate in my mind what a scrawny little kid David\nwas, just as I probably exagerate what a gigantic monster Goliath\nwas, but David's power easily defeated Goliath's.\n\nRemember the rich young man who comes up to Jesus and asks what\nhe can do to enter the Kingdom, Jesus says follow the commandments.\nI always picture the smug look on his face as he says he's done that\nhis whole life, probably anticipating an \"attaboy\" from the \nMessiah. Instead Jesus gives him a harder task, sell everything\nand follow Him. Jesus is raising the bar. The desciples say\nhow can anyone do this if it's so hard even for rich people.\nJesus says anyone can do it, with God's help.\n\nJesus says not only can we avoid killing people, we can avoid\ngetting angry at people. Not only can we avoid committing\nadultery, we can control our own desires. \n\nI realize this was not your main point, but I wonder how other\npeople see this. \n\n\n(Please forgive any generalizations I am about to make.)\n\nYour point about how \"hard\" other religions are is a good one, just \nas your \"Parting Question\" is a tough question. I think that Muslims\nworship the same God as I do, we can learn from their name \"submission\".\nHindus and Buddhists and Taoists, etc. claim that \"God\" is impersonal. \nIs God personal or impersonal? I say yes, but if I think a little\nmore my answer is whichever is greater. I think it is greater \nto be a personal entity, with an individual consciousness, but\nyou're right that that might be a cultural bias. If I think more\nI must admit that God's personal nature is as far beyond my\nconception as His impersonal nature is beyond the Hindu's\nconception. If somehow Jesus could fit into Hindu cosmology\nthen maybe I wouldn't have a problem, though that is hard to imagine.\n\nAre there any former (or present) \"Eastern Religion\" members here \nwho could comment?", "\n\t The Catholic doctrine of predestination does not exclude free\n will in any way. Since God knows everything, He therefore knows\n everything that is going to happen to us. We have free will, and\n are able to change what happens to us. However, since God knows\n everything, He knows all the choices we will make \"in advance\" (God\n is not subject to time). Too often arguments pit predestination\n against free will. We believe in both.\n\nThat last sentence of Steve's is an important one to remember.\n\nThere are certain things in the Catholic religion that cannot be\ncompletely comprehended by a human being. Were this not the case, it\nwould be good evidence that the religion was man-made.\n\nIn the case of predestination, you have to reconcile two things that\nwould at first appear to be irreconcilable: the sovereignty of God's\nwill over all things, and man's free will in deciding his own fate.\nCatholics believe in both! But that doesn't mean that anyone has come\nup with a pat reconciliation...", "\n\n\n\nIs it appropriate for the Lord not to reveal certain \nthings before the world (i.e., publish them widely)?\n\nThese things sacred to Himself. He may place any \npre- or post-conditions He feels are necessary.\n\nMoreover, there are precedents in scripture where\nknowledge of sacred things is withheld:\n\n1. After the Transfiguration Jesus instructed\nPeter, James, and John to \"tell the vision to no \nman, until the Son of man be risen again from \nthe dead\" (Matt. 17:9). \nIf we were living at the time of Savior, there\nwould be no (public) record of this event.\n\n2. A faithful friend of Paul experiences a vision \nof \"paradise\" when he \"heard unspeakable words, \nwhich it is not lawful for a man to utter\"\n(2 Cor. 12:4).\nThis person heard something which Paul can not \nwrite to the Corinthians (and us).\n\n3. There is an incident recorded in the Book of\nMormon where words uttered by \"babes\" were \n\"forbidden that there should not any man write\nthem (3 Nephi 26:16, the entire text follows\nfor those of you without access to the BOM).\n\n3 Nephi 26:16\nBehold, it came to pass on the morrow that the \nmultitude gathered themselves together, and they\nboth saw and heard these children; yea, even \nbabes did open their mouths and utter marvelous\nthings; and the things which they did utter were\nforbidden that there should not any man write them.\n\nSome LDS scholars speculate that these words\nwhich could not be written are the sacred\nportions from temple we are to withhold from \nthe world (but it could be something else).\n\n\nThere is much we can discuss about the temple \nordinances. We can discuss regarding baptisms\nand other vicarious ordinances for the dead.\nWe can discuss certain concepts regarding the\nendowment (\"the ritual\").\nHowever, there are certain elements I can not\ndiscuss with anyone (including other saints)\noutside of the temple.\nAs a portion of the endowment, we receive the\ntokens and signs that will permit us access\nto Heaven. I must keep this knowledge sacred \nand respect the conditions under which it is\nrevealed to me.", "\n\nFirst, you seem to assume all atheists think alike. An atheist does not\nbelieve in the existence of a god. Our opinions on issues such as \ncapital punishment and abortion, however, vary greatly. \n\nIf you were attacking the views of a particular atheist (Benedikt, I \npresume), then please present your argument as such and do not lump us\nall together.\n\nAs for the issues, let's start with abortion. Personally, I do not support\nabortion as a means of population control or contraception-after-the-fact.\nHowever, I support the right of any woman to have an abortion, regardless\nof what my personal views may be, because it would be arrogant of me to tell\nany individual what he/she may or may not do to his/her body, and the domain\nof legislators should not extend into the uterus. That's my opinion, and I\nam sure many atheists and theists would disagree with me.\n\nI do not defend homosexuality as a means of population control, but I \ncertainly defend it as an end to itself. I think most homosexuals would\nbe angered to hear of anyone characterizing their personal relationship as\nnothing more than a conscious effort to keep population levels down. \n\nAs for atheists believing all values are biological, I have no idea what\nyou're talking about.\n\nFinally, there are the issues of war and capital punishment. An atheist\ncan object to either one just as easily as a theist might. You seem to\nbe hung up on some supposed conspiratorial link between atheism and \npopulation control. Could this be the \"atheist cause\" you were referring \nto a few posts back?\n", " \n \nA world creator god does, the moment it creates the world. And to sayi\nthat you can't recall *anyone* is even below your usual standard of\na\"arguing\".\n \nMy argument is based on quite usual theistic assumptions, namely god\nis perfect, god is all-knowing god sets the rules. The rules don't\nwork for whatever reason. Because of its omniscience, the god has\nknown it. In advance.\n \n(Deletion)\n \nIt is not a question of grammar, it is a question of modelling. Has been\ndiscussed in the wonderful time when you were not posting to this group.\nWhen A is contradictorily defined A does not point to an instance in\nreality. Unless there is more information in the definition of A that\nallows me to find it somehow. However, when the contradictory attribute\nis said to be essential, ie has not got that attribute => not the A I\nam looking for, I can conclude that A does not exist.\n \n \n \nThat's quite like: I predict coins falling\n Predicted Happened\n1. Heads Tails\n2. Tails Tails\n3. Heads Tails\n4. Heads Tails\n \nI take 2. and dismiss the rest because of the unnecessary complexity\nthe other evidence causes.\n ", "I have been looking for a book that specifically addresses\nthe mystery of God in the paradox. I have read some that touch\non the subject in a chapter but would like a more detailed read.\n\nIs anyone aware of any books that deal with this subject.\n\nPlease e-mail me. Thanks.", " ^^^^^^^^^^^\nExquise me!? Since when does mankind consider twice to be equal??\n", "\n\nI think C.S. Lewis has argued that medieval people did not all think the\nworld is flat.\n\nHowever, this argument goes both ways. Pretend someone telling Plato that\nit is highly probable that people do not really have souls; their minds\nand their consciousness are just something their brains make up, and\ntheir brains (their body) is actually ahead of their mind even in \nvoluntarly actions. I don't think Plato would have been happy with this,\nand neither would Paul, although Paul's ideas were quite different.\nHowever, if you would _read_ what we discuss in this group, and not\njust preach, you would see that there currently is much evidence in\nfavour of these statements.\n\nThe same applies to the theory of natural selection, or other sacred\ncows of Christianity on our origins and human nature. I don't believe\nin spirits, devils or immortal souls any more than in gods.\n\n\nAh, you said it. You believe what you want to. This is what I had assumed\nall along. \n\n\nYou might be as well planting Satan's seeds, ever thought of this?\nBesides, you haven't yet explained why we must believe so blindly,\nwithout any guiding light at all (at least I haven't noticed it).\nI don't think this is at all fair play on god's part. \n\nYour argument sounds like a version of Pascal's Wager. Please read the\nFAQ, this fallacy is discussed there.\n\n\nAnd I failed to get help from the HS because I had a wrong attitude?\nSorry, Dan, but I do not think this spirit exists. People who claim to have\naccess to it just look badly deluded, not gifted. \n\nPetri\n\n", "\nThe Apocryphal books that are in the Septuagint were part of the canon \nused by the Greek-speaking churches from the inception of the church.\nThey were not added later (or much later). This is a common misconception.\n\nThe preference of the Hebrew canon over the Greek canon is a later\ninnovation. The church did not need to be guided to \"add\" the books\nsince they were part of the faith once received by the apostles and\npassed to the Church.\n\nLarry Overacker (llo@shell.com)\n-- ", "I'm about to revise my resume and was wondering if I should put on there the\nfact that I'm a Christian. Give me some input on what you think.\n\n", "Bill Burns was looking for a description of the differnces between the\nCatholic and Lutheran churches.\n\nI'd recommend Prof. William Whalen's book \"Separated Brethren\". It's\nan overview of common US denominations, intended for a Catholic\naudience.\n", ": \n: In the NT, the clear references are all from Paul's letters. In Rom\n: 1, there is a passage that presupposes that homosexuality is an evil.\n: Note that the passage isn't about homosexuality -- it's about\n: idolatry. Homosexuality is visited on people as a punishment, or at\n: least result, of idolatry. There are a number of arguments over this\n: passage. It does not use the word \"homosexuality\", and it is referring\n: to people who are by nature heterosexual practicing homosexuality.\n: So it's not what I'd call an explicit teaching against all homosexuality.\n\nThat's like saying that murder is only wrong for those of us who aren't natural\nmurders, and stealing is only wrong for those of us who aren't natural\nthieves.\n\nWill", "\nI agree with what Darren has to say here, but would like to add a \npersonal observation. What I see as arrogance and the problem I have \nwith it is not a sense of personal certainty, but a lack of respect for\nothers who come to differing conclusions. Clearly, this is not just \nChristian vs. Non-Christian; there is a whole spectrum of belief systems\nwithin Christianity. I do not tend to argue with others about matters\nof personal faith because, like aesthetics, it is not demonstable by\nobjective means. \n\nChoosing what to believe and rely on are important areas of personal \nsovereignty. What bothers me is when others suggest that, in these \nmatters of faith, their specific beliefs are not only true to them \nbut are absolute and should be binding on others. It follows from this\nthat God must give everyone the same revelation of truth, and thus \nanyone who comes to a different conclusion is intentionally choosing\nthe wrong path. This is the arrogance I see; a lack of respect for the\nhonest conclusions of others on matters which are between them and God.\nEven a personal certainty leaves room for the beliefs of others. It is\nuniversalizing those matters of personal faith, coupled by a proud\nnotion that one's relationship with God is superior to other's, that\nleads to arrogance. In my honest (and nonuniversal) opinion. :-)\n\n\n\ncomments, criticism welcome...\n-Ken\nalvin@ucsu.colorado.edu", "\nI'd like to remind people of the withering of the fig tree and Jesus\ndriving the money changers et. al. out of the temple. I think those\nwere two instances of Christ showing anger (as part of His human side).", "\nGrumblegrumble... \n\n\nunfortunately the logic falls apart quick: all-perfect > insulted or\nthreatened by the actions of a lesser creature > actually by offspring >\n???????????????????\n\nHow/why shuold any all-powerful all-perfect feel either proud or offended?\nAnything capable of being aware of the relationship of every aspect of every \nparticle in the universe during every moment of time simultaneously should\nbe able to understand the cause of every action of every 'cell globule' on\neach tniy planet...\n\n\n\"All-powerful, Owner Of Everything in the Universe Makes Great Sacrifices\"\nmakes a great headline but it doesn't make any sense. What did he\nsacrifice? Where did it go that he couldn't get it back? If he gave\nsomething up, who'd he give it up to?\n\n-chris", "\nDave - you might like to read a book by Florence Bulle \"God\nWants You Rich & Other Enticing Doctrines\", which discusses\nOOBEs in one of her chapters.\n\nIn the Bible we have examples of men caught up in the Spirit (eg\nEzekiel, Paul). I believe that also this experience is\ncounterfeited by Satan - so that for example yoga and other\neastern medatitive techniques can be used to induce the soul to\nleave the body and float off. Someone tried to sell me a book in\nLos Angeles airport entitled \"Easy Journeys to Other Planets\"\nwhich uses such techniques.\n\nThe occultic trance of a medium sometimes involves such body\ndeparture - the book \"The Challanging Counterfeit\", about a\nformer medium who gets saved, tells how the author, on his last\ntrance, was attacked by evil spirits who tried to kill him\nwhile returning to his body at the end of the seance\nbecause of his interest in Christianity and how he was supernaturally\nprotected by the Lord.\n\nThere may be some similarities in mind-altering drugs and the\nphenomena of 'tripping'.\n\nAs regards the connection between body and soul, there is an\ninteresting verse in Ecclesiastes. In a passage talking about\nold age, the preacher writes \"Then man goes to his eternal home\nand mourners go about the streets. Remember Him--before the\nsilver cord is severed.\" (12.5-6) My understanding of this\nsilver cord is that it is something that attaches body and soul\nin a manner somewhat similar to an umbilical cord or an\nastronaut's air-line to his spaceship.\nWhen a person goes out of body this silver cord still attaches\nthe soul whereever it goes - and is vulnerable to being broken:\nastral projection can be dangerous! Bulle, I think, reports a\ncase of a yogi off on an OOBE who was found dead in his\napartment, with no apparent external cause.", "\n\n\tLet me guess: you're not a psycho-analyst in real life, but you play \none on alt.atheism. Right?\n\n\n\tIs ESP something you have been given by God?\n---\n\nPrivate note to Jennifer Fakult.\n\n \"This post may contain one or more of the following:\n sarcasm, cycnicism, irony, or humor. Please be aware \n of this possibility and do not allow yourself to be \n confused and/or thrown for a loop. If in doubt, assume\n all of the above.", "In 12-step programs (like Alcoholics Anonymous), one of the steps\ninvolves acknowleding a \"higher power\". AA and other 12-step abuse-\nrecovery programs are acknowledged as being among the most effective.\n\nUnfortunately, as evidence for God, this can be dismissed by stating\nthat the same defect of personality makes substance abusers as makes \npeople 'religious', and the debunker could perhaps acknowledge that\nbeing religious is a better crutch than being a drug addict, but\nstill maintain that both are escapism. (And I suspect that there\nare some atheists who would find the substance abuse preferable to\nChristianity.)\n\nI think that an essential problem with communication between Christ-\nians and atheists is that as Christians we necessarily see ourselves\nas incomplete, and needing God (the 'God-shaped hole'), while atheists\nnecessarily see themselves as self-sufficient. If the atheists are\nright, Christians are guilty of being morally weak, and too cowardly\nto stand up for themselves; if the Christians are right, the atheists\nare guilty of considerable arrogance. (I use the term atheist to\nrefer to a person who has a definite conviction that there is no God,\nas opposed to one who does not know and/or does not care about God.)\n==\nSeanna Watson Bell-Northern Research, | Pray that at the end of living,\n(seanna@bnr.ca) Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Of philosophies and creeds,\n | God will find his people busy\nOpinion, what opinions? Oh *these* opinions. | Planting trees and sowing seeds.\nNo, they're not BNR's, they're mine. |\nI knew I'd left them somewhere. | --Fred Kaan", "\nUm, I think you and the Bible are the ones inside the wall. There's a\nreally wonderful world out here. You really should peek out at it sometime.\n\nThe silly things you keep saying only reinforce the fact that we *are*\non opposite sides of a very high wall. I see how incredibly beautiful\nthings are on my side, and I only keep telling you about it because\nI'd like to you come join me here.\n\n\nI never said that. I said that I would PREFER to cease to exist than\nto be tossed into any god's version of Hell.\n\n\nYou say to me, \"Brian, come up here and take a look from this vantage\npoint.\" But you're in a valley, looking at a crayon drawing of a sun\nand a tree, and I can't for the life of me figure out why you're so\nimmersed in it. *I*'m the one trying to get you to come up HERE,\ndon't you see?\n", "Thanks for the responses so far. I hope that I have \nsparked some thought (which is more my intent than \nto restart one of the Reformations).\n\nI'm just going to tug on two threads:\n\nIn Message-ID: \ndb7n+@andrew.cmu.edu (D. Andrew Byler) writes, \n\n\nI was simply observing that as a non-Jew, I am not in that community\nwhich might be bound by such a decision (I don't know much about\nthe Council of Jamnia, but I have heard that it is not well-attested\nhistorically). 'Faithless' has nothing to do with it, and I prefer\nnot to speculate about motives.\n\n\nI wish the Dialogue_with_Trypho were a real transcript of a real\ndialogue,, but I think it a fictional effect on Justin's part.\nPutting that to one side, Justin's point may be evidential; one\nwould want to know- 'which books?'\n\n\nPerhaps the reformers were traveling in all the light (MS evidence)\nthey had. Let's stick to the issues. Again, I prefer not to speculate\nabout motives. One would need quotes from Luther, Calvin, etc. to\nevidence this 'preference'.\n\n-----\nIn Message-ID: \nwagner@grace.math.uh.edu (David Wagner)\n\n\nIs this the principle: 'Any (BC) text not quoted by Christ cannot\nbe counted as Scripture' ? Think well about this- Job, Ruth...?\n\n \t\tThese is a logically invalid *a priori*. \n \t\tBesides, we are talking about OT texts- \n \t\twhich in many parts are superceded by the NT\n \t\t(in the Xtian view). Would not this same\n \t\tprinciple exclude _Ecclesiastes_?\n \t\tThis principle cannot be consistently applied.\n\nDave W. answers:\n \n\nMeaning what? Do you affirm the principle (that the D.c's can be\nexcluded since they contain 'false doctrine') or do you deny it? \nIf affirmed (as is implied in your statement) how does one determine \nthat doctrine X is false? Do you affirm every teaching in _Ecclesiastes_?\n\n\nIf so, it may be a test that cannot be applied. The Orthodox\nfaithfully believe that Psalm 151 is canonical. How can my\nfaith say 'Not!' ? All I hear here is the *a priori* I mentioned\nbefore.\n\n\nThis is contrary to fact.\n\n\nCan this be elevated to a principle? How is 'spiritual quality'\nmeasured? I'll take the 'spiritual quality' of most of Sirach over \nJoshua or Chronicles, any day.\n\n\nWhat can I say? You believe what you believe- I'm asking for\na consistency check. I don't see that the books were added- in any\nconstruction this formulation begs the question. No one can validly\nask me to 'have faith' that these books are noncanonical.\n\n\nDave Davis, ddavis@ma30.bull.com\nThese are my opinions & activities alone\n\nQOTD:", "I have a few minor problems with the article posted as proof of \nChrist's resurrection. \n\nFirst the scriptural quotations:\n\nThis sort of reasoning is such that if you beleive you are justified,\nif not then your beleif is in vain, so you might as well beleive. Most\nof these quotations are of people who do beleive. People who would\ntry to justify their own positions.\n\nSecond the logical proof:\n\n\n The period of time that has elapsed from the event growing larger\ndoes not increase the odds that a hoax would be discovered. In fact\nthe longer a hoax is perpetuated the stronger it becomes.\n\nFinally:\n\nThere is no proof of the resurrection of Christ, except in our spirits\ncommunion with his, and the Father's. It is a matter of FAITH, belief\nwithout logical proof. Incedently one of the largest stumbling blocks for\nrational western man, myself included.", "\n\nNo, IMO, Mr. Stowell missed the point.\n\n\nMr. Stowell seems to have jumped rather strangely from truth to absolutes.\nI don't see how that necessarily follows. \n\nAre all truths also absolutes?\nIs all of scripture truths (and therefore absolutes)?\n\nIf the answer to either of these questions is no, then perhaps you can \nexplain to me how you determine which parts of Scripture are truths, and\nwhich truths are absolutes. And, who is qualified to make these \ndeterminations? There is hardly consensus, even in evangelical \nChristianity (not to mention the rest of Christianity) regarding \nBiblical interpretation.\n\nI find Mr. Stowell's statement terribly simple-minded.", "\n\nJim,\n\nPlease feel free to correct me and give me some texts. As far as I can see the\nonly text which vaugely relates to jewish evangelism is found in Mt. 23:15.\nHowever since this is found only in Mt. it cannot be dated before 90CE which\nmakes it unusefull for understanding Second Temple Judaism. ", "[deleted stuff from Andrew wrt which atheist myth is Bill re: to]\n\n\"Counterfeit atheists\". Hmmmm. So, we're just cheap knock-offs of the\nTrue Atheists. \n\nReligion demonstrates itself to be absurd. Constantly. Personally, if \nsomeone asks, I'm happy to point out how this is so. \n\n\nMan, what *is* your pill wrt atheists? If you're going to make such\ncontentious statements, back them up! At least, READ NEWS: time-and-time\nagain, we've hashed out the beliefs various religous doctrines hold. \nTry debating reasonably with someone who makes a statement like, \n\"...more accurately oxymoric is the a term like, reasonable atheist.\"\nThen take a look at the responses we've given Tammy. Seem pretty\n\"reasonable\", nay, even \"polite\" to me. \n\n[accusations of myths a-flyin']\n\nI saw your reference to \"According to\" in the original article.\nThen you do such an excellent job of spewing dogma that, well, the\nimplication was pretty clear (if wrong, in this case).\n\n[jeez, a misunderstanding. Let it go.]\n\n[more statements to wrap this thing up]\n\nIf you had WRITTEN your post with the same as care as the FAQ has been,\nwe wouldn't be having this discussion.\n\n[gems about evidence deleted]\n\n\nJeez, do I have to point this out to you? This discussion is not all\ninstances of human reason. Therefore, your implication is false.\n\n\n\nHow lame can you get. Who said anything about the 'truth' of things?\nRead the FAQ very carefully, please. Then report your findings about\nwhere it says the purpose of a.a is to find the 'truth' of things.\n\nAnd stop impressing your own misguided image of atheists upon us. It's\nreally pissing me off.", "\n\n\nI think you are confusing \"tautological\" with \"false and misleading.\"", "Meta-exegesis: Conviction of Sin, part II\n\nLet me return to the question, stipulating that Paul meant his use of\n_arseonkoitai_ to refer more or less exactly to the Levitical prohibition\nof male-male sex. In order to bring out the problems most clearly, I'll\nalso stipulate (what I think is far less plausible) that Paul coined the\nterm for this usage. The question I want to turn to is what that would\nmean for Paul's readers and for later Christians. This should be shorter\nthan my last note, as we will see that this question rapidly confronts us\nwith some of the major divisions within Christ's body, and I am not trying\nto open the gates for flames across any of the terrible chasms that\nseparate any of us from our fellow Christians. My own biases (loosely\ncharacterizable as \"liberal\") will be evident, but I am not grinding an\naxe here, so much as trying to get all parties to see that it may be HARD\nto reach \"closure\" when the issues involved strike at the heart of what we\neach, in our own different ways, see as crucial to the Gospel of Christ.\n\nSo; stipulating Paul's intent, the immediate question is: HOW CAN HIS\nREADERS UNDERSTAND this intent? And following on that question, there is\na second one: WHAT IS OUR PROPER ACTION if we *do* manage to understand him?\n\nSince Paul gives not a single clue about his meaning in the text of 1st\nCorinthians, there are two \"positive\" answers and one \"negative\" to this\nquestion:\n\n+\ta. Paul (or Apollos, or someone) in the apostolic community has\n\t conveyed to the Corinthians the then-traditional Jewish condem-\n\t nation of homosexual behavior, and Paul expects them to be\n\t sufficiently well-tutored by this tradition that he needs no\n\t futher explanation. [I should note that there is no evidence\n\t in the letter, or in 2 Corinthians for such a supposition :-)]\n\n+\tb. The Spirit will teach us what Paul means (or, if not Paul,\n\t what God means \"behind\" Paul's inspired word-choice.)\n\n-\tc. We *don't* know, and cannot guess to within any better pre-\n\t cision here than, for comparison, in the parallel use by Paul,\n\t in the same passage of the word _pleonektai_ (\"those who have\n\t more\" -- if you think that _areseonkoitai_ is \"obvious\" from\n\t its roots, try cutting your teeth on *this* word! The NEB\n\t translates it as \"grabbers\") or even _methusoi_ (\"drunkards\"\n\t -- at least this has the advantage of being a common insult,\n\t so that at least there is *some* hint as to its meaning!)\n\nThe three positions more or less -- if I can be allowed some exaggeration\nfor the sake of argument -- define a classical Catholic attitude towards\ntradition, one form of Protestant _sola scriptura_, and a liberal/critical\ndemand for evidence. All three positions have strengths and weaknesses.\n\n_ad_ a:\tIt is unquestionable that the gospel was preached in and by the\n\tcommunity of Christ's disciples and their successors, and that\n\tour NT scripture itself emerges from this communal tradition.\n\tBut it's also the case that we know little or nothing about this\n\ttradition until almost a century after Paul, which is to say that\n\twe have access to the tradition only after several generations of\n\tpossibly confused transmission. The scripture is itself our only\n\tdocumentation of the tradition in the critical era.\n\n_ad_ b:\tIf we are NOT born of water and Spirit [to revert to John in an\n\tattempt to explain Paul :-)], then we have no more hope of under-\n\tstanding the gospel than Nicodemus had; neither the traditions of\n\tmen nor the vain elevation of our own reason can prevent the Spirit\n\tfrom blowing where it will -- the Paraclete is a kamikaze. But\n\tthe downside of Protestant belief in the efficacy of the Spirit\n\tas our guide in scripture is that the wing of Protestantism that\n\ttakes this most seriously is also the most fragmented over divergent\n\tunderstanding supposedly derived from the \"clear\" Word of God.\n\n\t\t[Note: classical Lutheran, Calvinist and Anglican thought\n\t\tconstrains scripture to be read *within* tradition, even\n\t\twhile reserving judgment against tradition out of scripture;\n\t\tthe more bizarre forms of \"I will read Scripture my way\"\n\t\tare primarily a fringe aspect of \"cultic\" Protestantism.]\n\n\tThe main problem with this approach is that there is apparently no\n\tmeans for ONE person to convey to another what that one may feel\n\t*is* teaching received from the Spirit; and history shows incredible\n\tconflict between Christians on this point, each in his own mind\n\t\"convinced\" that he is led by the Spirit. No one can seriously\n\turge point b without SOME sense of its potential for setting Christian\n\tagainst Christian. To what purpose?\n\n_ad_ c:\tThe critical approach has the distinct advantage that when it can\n\treach a conclusion, it can lay out the data in a way which is open\n\tto all. The weakness is an obvious corollary: this is not usually\n\tpossible. :-)\n\n\t[If I may say a word here, out of my own already acknowledged bias;\n\tone complaint against critical methodology is that it \"dissolves\"\n\tfaith -- but surely a \"faith\" that cannot honestly face the evalu-\n\tation of evidence has problems which mere theology is helpless to\n\taddress.]\n\nAnyway, there is a serious and unfortunate possibility of schism between\n\"liberal\" and \"conservative\" positions, mostly on the basis of extreme\nzealots of positions b and c. A Catholic sense of authority and tradition\ntends to constrain arguments of b contra c to secondary position, so that\ndespite horrendous strains Rome is NOT as likely to find these issues as\nultimately divisive as the Protestant world will. And Anglicans will (I\npredict) muddle through on the _via media_, attempting to give each position\nits due, but no more than its due. \n\nSecond question. Suppose tradition tells us, and lots of \"spiritual\"\nChristians tell us, and critical thought at least admits as possible,\nthat Paul is refering to a flat, universal Levitical prohibition against\nmale-male sex. What then? Again, we can abdicate our personal responsi-\nbility to tradition, and let it dictate the answer. But it's precisely\nwhere inherited traditions are NOT questioned that they're most dangerous.\n\nWe have EXAMPLES of Christ questioning the Pharisees and THEIR use of\ntradition (despite his urging, in Matthew 23:2 that we are to heed them).\nWe have EXAMPLES of Peter, and more radically still Paul, jettisoning the\ntraditions that THEY were led by the Spirit to call into question. Jesus\nand Peter and Paul do not so much \"throw out\" tradition as subject it to\nradical criticism, on a couple of very basic grounds:\n\n \"the weightier demands of the law: justice and mercy and good faith\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t(Matthew 23:23)\nand \"On these two commandments [love God & neighbor] hand the whole Law,\n and the Prophets, also.\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t(Matthew 22:40)\n\nIf there is a fundamental (because derived from Christ) validity in the\nchallenge to *some* traditions, a validity that led the first generation\nto go so far as to waive application of the Torah to gentile converts\n(vastly beyond anything that is directly deducible from Jesus' reported\nwords and deeds), it signifies to me a certain failure of the imagination\nto *postulate* that *only* the traditions that we have specific challenges\nagainst are in fact open to challenge.\n\nAll traditions passed *through* men are traditions *of* men. That God may\nlead us even so, that these traditions are a source of our spiritual\ninstruction I will freely grant. But tradition is inherently human, and\ninherently corruptible (and given the Fall, corrupt). Nothing in it is\nimmune to challenge, when the Spirit shows us a failure in justice, mercy\nand good faith. Nothing may ultimately stand unless it DOES follow from\nlove of God and love of neighbor.\n\nI am perfectly willing to grant that I could be blind to my own sin. That\nthe Spirit may have taught another what She refuses to teach me (or I am\ntoo dense to learn). That tradition *might* have value here. But what I\n*know* of tradition is that on one occasion, some superstitious Christians\nappealed to Justinian after an earthquake in Asia Minor, and scapegoated\n\"sodomites\" as the \"cause\" of the earthquake, so that legislation was\npassed making homosexual behavior a capital offense. If that is in\naccord with the gospel of Christ, then I am no Christian. That is human\ntradition at its most hateful and vicious. And I see nothing all that much\ndifferent in all the unbidden eruptions onto USENET of people who are quick\nto condemn but slow to understand. If that is the leading of the Spirit,\nthen I want no part of it. But what I have found in obedience to the Lord\nis that I am, myself, TOTALLY dependent on the witness of other Christians,\nfor the truth that lives in the Body of Christ.\n\nAnd I say to all who doubt that gay Christianity is from God what Gamaliel\nsaid to doubting Pharisees who would have suppressed the earliest Church:\n\n\t\"be careful how you deal with these people... If this enterprise,\n\tthis movement of theirs, is of human origin it will break up of\n\tits own accord; but if it does in fact come from God you will not\n\tonly be unable to destroy them, but you might find yourselves\n\tfighting against God.\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t[Acts 5:36...39] \n\nAll I ask is that you listen to your traditions, and read your scriptures\nwith a mind and soul OPEN to the Spirit, and to the past history of our\nfirst Christian witnesses' willingness to challenge tradition and OTHER\nreadings of scripture -- though read with all the authority of scribes and\nrabbis -- and a submission to the declaration that all must depend on the\nlove of God and neighbor. Then, study the evidence; learn the history of\nChristians oppressing Christians out of their traditions and eagerness to\njudge where Jesus and Paul tell us NOT to judge. And let the witness of\nthe Spirit in the lives of your fellow Christians -- including those who\nare NOT of your preference in theology -- guide you towards God's truth.\n-- \nMichael L. Siemon\t\tI say \"You are gods, sons of the\nmls@panix.com\t\t\tMost High, all of you; nevertheless\n - or -\t\t\tyou shall die like men, and fall\nmls@ulysses.att..com\t\tlike any prince.\" Psalm 82:6-7\n\n[There's a certain ambiguity in your discussion of position (a), as to\nwhether you're speaking of tradition in Paul's time or ours. I think\nthere are two ways to use tradition. One is to say that when Paul and\nhis readers share a tradition, it makes sense to interpret his words\nin the context of that shared tradition. That's what makes me think\nthat these arguments over words turn out to be silly. We know that\nPaul came out of a background that was rather Puritanical on sex.\nEverything else he says on sex is consistent with that background.\nThe tone of his remarks on homosexuality in Rom 1 is consistent with\nthat background. Even if the words in the sin lists aren't the most\ngeneral terms for homosexual activity (and it seems to me that there's\nsome evidence that they are not), they are just one more piece of\nevidence for something we would probably be willing to believe with no\nevidence at all -- that Paul shares the common Jewish rejection of\nhomosexuality.\n\nBut when you identify (a) with the Catholic position, that's rather a\nhorse of a different color. The Catholic position involves a\ncontinuing church tradition. Arguments specific to that tradition\nmight be (1) we can get guidance on how to interpret Paul's original\nmeaning from tradition, e.g. the way the Church Fathers interpreted\nhim, and (2) we gain confidence that his prohibitions still apply in\nour time because of the universal judgement of the church between his\ntime and ours. I think this is a somewhat different use of tradition.\nA radical Protestant might be willing to use known 1st Cent.\ntradition to illuminate Paul's original meaning, but not use the\nCatholic position to answer the question of what our own attitude to\nhomosexuality should be.", "\nThough you can certaily assert all this, I don't see why it necessarily\nhas to be the case. Why can't hate just stay as it is, and not beget more?\nWho says we have to get disgusted and start hating the sinner. I admit\nthis happens, but I donlt think you can say it is always necessaily\nso.\n\nWhy can we not hate with a perfect hatred?\n\n\nCertainly we should love even our enemies. Amos 5:15 says to hate the evil\nand love the good. This can't contradict Christ's teaching. I think we tie\nup both hate and love with an emotional attitude, when it really should be\nconsidered more objectively. Surely I don't fly into a rage at every sin\nI see, but why can I not \"hate\" it?", "\nMaybe before Babel,everyone including angels spoke the same language,so at\nBabel, God punished us by giving us languages different from the original one.\nSo if that's the case,then angels now would be speaking in the tongue mankind\nspoke before Babel.", "Rob Butera asks about a book called THE LOST YEARS OF JESUS, by\nElizabeth Clare Prophet.\n\nI do not know the book. However, Miss Prophet is the leader of a\ngroup (The Church Universal and Triumphant) derived from the I AM\ngroup founded by a Mr. Ballard who began his mission in the 1930's\n(I am writing this from memory and may not have all the details\nstraight -- for an old account, check your library for a bnook by\nMarcus Bach) after an eighteenth-century Frenchman appeared, tapped\nhim on the shoulder, and offered him a cup of \"cosmic essence.\" A\nmajor tenet of the movement is that there is a monastery in the\nmountains of Tibet from which a monk descends to the lower altitudes\nevery few centuries to preach, and that all major religions have\nbeen founded by monks from this monastery. Typically, the Ballard\nfamily and their successors, the Prophet family (related by\nmarriage, if I remember aright), base almost all their teachings on\nmessages they have allegedly received by telepathy from Tibet. I\nshould be surprised if the book you mention has any scholarly basis.", "Just a few cheap shots a Christianity:\n\nRiddle: What is the shortest street in Jerusalem?\nAnswer: The Street of the Righteous Poles.\n\nLimrick:\n\nThere was an archeologist Thostle\nWho found an amazing fossil\nBy the way it was bent\nAnd the knot it the end\n'twas the penis of Paul the Apostle.\n\nJingle:\nChristianity hits the spot\nTwelve Apostles thats a lot\nJesus Christ and a Virgin too\nChristianity's the faith for you\n(with apologies to Pepsi Cola and its famous jingle)\n\nRiddle:\nHow many Christians does it take to save a light bulb.\nAnswer: None, only Jesus can save.\n\nAphorism:\nJesus Saves\nMoses Invests\n\nProof that Jesus was Jewish:\n1. He lived at home till he was 33\n2. He went into his fathers business\n3. He thought he mother was a virgin\n4. His mother thought he was God.\n\nQED.\n\nSo long you all\n\nBob Kolker\n\"I would rather spend eternity in Hell with interesting people \nthan eternity in Heaven with Christians\"\n\n", "\nmy $.02 - Yes and No. I do not believe the above scenario is not possible. \nEither they are believing and living (in at least some part) led by God, else \nthey are not. Believing (intellectually, but waiting(?)) is not enough.\n Especially important to remember is that no one can judge whether you are \nso committed, nor can you judge someone else. I guess the closest we can \ncome to know someone's situation is listening to their own statements. This \ncan be fallible, as is our sense of communion one with another.\n\n\nRegarding this passage, we need to remember that this is a letter to a church \n(at Laodicea), people who are Of the Body of Christ. (Rev.3:14-16) He talks \nabout their works. A translation could say that he says their lack of \nconcern makes him sick (to the point of throwing up).\n\n Right, saving is by faith alone, except that faith does not come alone, if \nyou catch the two meanings.\n I can offer the explanation that Jesus would that we were either \"on fire \nfor Him\" or so cold we knew we were not in His will and thus could be made \naware of our separation. This is admonishment for His children, not eternal \ndamnation.\n\n", "\n\n\nThat depends on how this verse is read. There are at least two\nmeanings of the word \"once\". 1) only one time, and 2) at some\nother time (i.e. once upon a time). Note that in the previous\nverse, the word \"once\" is used with the second meaning, and also\nin the following verse, \"once\" is again used with the second meaning.\nThe Greek, I am sure, uses different words for each of the two meanings\nfor the English word \"once\". I am not a Greek scholar, but I'm sure\nsomeone here can verify which Greek word is used here for this meaning.\nIf the second meaning is being used, that verse can be interpreted as:\n\n - for it was once given for men to die (beginning with Adam), but \n after this [gift of atonement offered by Jesus Christ] the judgement\n [is made available], for now there is no longer death, but life\n with Christ.", "\n\nThis is, as far as I know, complete nonsense. The codification of the bible\nas we have it now came very much later.", "\nVery easily. Show them pictures of crime scenes perpetrated by Christian\nterrorists in this country, if that doesn't convince them have them talk\nto the victims of Christian terrorism. \n\nA brutal act of terrorism inspired by Christian propoganda was recently\ncommited on your very campus. \n\nIts very simple religious extremists of all religions put no value on\nhuman life. Christian and Islamic fundamentalists put advancing there\nreligion above all else, even if doing so violates the religion itself.\n\nP.S. I'm not saying all Christians are terrorists, I'm using \"Christian\n terrorist\" in the same way the media uses Islamic terrorist.", "You just don't get it, do you?\n\n\nI think the discussion is more like this...\n\nMe: [ happily picking daisies by the side of the road ]\nBC: [ dancing on the double yellow broken line ]\n \"Come on out and play on the highway!\"\nMe: \"Why?\"\nBC: \"The highway was put here for people to be on. We must work towards\n fulfilling its purpose.\"\nMe: \"But --\"\nBC: \"Look, the highway has been here for several generations. Look, I\n have a story about how it was actually created by a divine being!\n And several people actually saw Elvis bless it!\"\nMe: \"But --\"\nBC: \"Look, are you going to come out here, or not?\"\nMe: \"But --\"\nBC: \"You probably think that picking daisies is fun. Well, you're wrong.\"\nMe: \"Where in blazes did you get this silly idea that you're supposed to\n be playing on the highway? You'll get yourself killed!\"\nBC: \"Better to be killed on the highway than to live an empty life off\n of it. Besides, you're just asking pointless questions. You know\n you really want to be playing on the highway too; you're just\n denying it.\"\nMe: \"If you want to get run over, then fine, but I'd much rather enjoy\n the daisies, if you please.\"\nBC: \"Why do you shun me like this? The Creator of the Highway will flatten\n you with a steamroller if you don't see the light and come join me!\"\nMe: \"Well, if he's gonna be THAT way about it, maybe I want to get as\n far from the highway as I can...\"\nBC: [ incoherent but quite familiar righteous sputtering ]\n\nBrian C., don't you see? I do not believe that your god is:\n\n\t(a) real, or even\n\n\t(b) beneficial.\n\nIn fact, I believe your religion is imaginary and, carried to\nextremes, harmful. I would like to help you see its shortcomings, and\nperhaps someday finally become strong enough to see it for what it is:\nan elaborate lie, kept alive by the elite priesthood to keep the\nmasses properly submissive to their influences.\n\nPlease offer me an argument that's more convincing than \"you just\ndon't believe 'cos you don't want to.\" Everything you've said so far\ncould apply equally to any religion -- why do you believe yours is the\nreal one?\n\n(Note that saying \"it's the only one that promises eternal life\" or\nsomething like that isn't an answer to my question, unless you show\nthat (a) no other religion promises eternal life and (b) it is\nunarguably true that eternal life must be a reality.)\n", "iank@microsoft.com (Ian Kennedy) writes...\n\n\nMore along the lines of Hebrews 12:25-29, I reckon...\n\n\tSee that you refuse not him that speaks. For if they\n\tescaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much \n\tmore shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that \n\tspeaks from heaven:\n\n\tWhose voice then shook the earth: but now he has promised,\n\tsaying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also\n\theaven.\n\n\tAnd this word, Yet once more, signifies the removing of\n\tthose things that are shaken, as of things that are made,\n\tthat those things which cannot be shaken may remain.\n\n\tWherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, \n\tlet us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably \n\twith reverence and godly fear:\n\n\tFor our God is a consuming fire.\n\n\nOr 2nd Thessalonians 1:7-10...\n\n\tAnd to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord\n\tJesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,\n \tIn flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God,\n\tand that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:\n\n\tWho shall be punished with everlasting destruction from \n\tthe presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;\n \tWhen he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be\n\tadmired in all them that believe (because our testimony \n\tamong you was believed) in that day. \n\n\nKinda gives Flaming a whole new meaning, I reckon. \n\n\t\t\t - < > -\n\nThe impression I got from talking with Livingston was that the coming\nof the Lord, power-wise, is going to be something that those who are\nunprepared can't handle -- kinda like overloading a fuse -- due to \nguilt. Somehow it seems to also apply to the entire physical world as \nwe know it. LF suggests that God doesn't want that and has sent Koresh \nas a reminder. \n\nSeems that those who have been purified through salvation, or that those\nprotected by the Seals, will be the ones who survive. And no -- I don't \nhave a good idea yet what \"being shielded by the seals\" actually involves \nor how exactly it relates to salvation. (Other than it involves the\nmarriage of the Bridegroom and the Bride... for those of you Biblical\nwell versed.)\n\t\t\t - < > -\n\nMe personally, I'm totally 100% dependent on God through Christ, so \nif God wants me to understand, good. If not, also good. If God wants\nto save me, or dispose of me, that's great either way. Being born in\nthe Spirit, means being part of the Body of Christ (Ephesians 2), so\nwho and what I was, matters little. * What's important is loving GOD *\n\nCome Nova, Nuke, or Apocalypse -- who cares? Satan might even be able \nto pull off a pretty convincing fake. Big deal. Not worth fearing or \nworrying about though, not before:\n\n\n\t\t -* The Greater Glory of GOD *-\n \t\n\nMaybe Koresh is right, maybe he isn't, and it should be interesting to \nsee the new message (or prophecy). The tour of the Bible I've taken in \nstudying the passages he points to in the 3-02 text, has been most re-\nwarding. But the test of prophecy is still the fruit it bears -- which \nis not yet clear. \n\nMuch much more important is \"Charity\" -- which by definition *is* --\n\n\t Love for GOD\n\n(I hope Dear Reader, you've taken all this as an expression of faith, \n and not a statement of mere fact. Seems many folks get real upset at \n reminders. ;-)", "\nThis sounds to me like a sort of generic modalism (in the the three phases\nof water are but different modes of behavior of the same physical stuff).\nIt certainly does not seem to me to describe the orthodox position.\n\n[Of course, I suppose that the medieval view of water may have been\ndifferent, but now we know that the phases of water are just different\n*behaviors* of the same physical stuff - different modes, not different\nidentities - but perhaps the medieval people did not know that].\n\n\nThis is clearly Modalistic Monarchianism, since these three aspects depend\nsolely on point of view, and are do not really represent actual variety\nwithin the person.\n\nDo you now begin to see why \n", "\nYes, there are these two senses of interpretation, and certainly our\ndecision to accept Scripture as inspired ultimately rests on our own\nprivate opinion. However, when reading Scripture, we have to remember\nthat the Scriptures were given by God for our instruction, and that\nthe interpretation that matters is the one God intended. For example,\nif I decide that the fact that John the Baptist is Elijah teaches the\ndoctrine of reincarnation, I am wrong because that is not the intended\ninterpretation. The prophets didn't make up this teaching; it came\nfrom God, and we must accept it as such. This necessarily means that\nour private interpretations must take a back seat to the meaning God\nintended to convey. Certainly we must rely on our best efforts to\ndetermine what this meaning is, but this very fact should make us\nrecognize that our private interpretations cannot be automatically\naccepted as the infallible interpretation of God. We need to test the\nspirits to see if they are from God. When the Holy Spirit speaks, he\nsays the same thing to all; he won't tell me that a passage means one\nthing and tell you it means another. If the two of us come to\nconflicting conclusions, we can't both be completely right. We know\nour interpretations are reliable only when the Church as a whole\nagrees on what Scripture means. This is how we know the doctrines of\nthe Trinity, the dual nature of Christ, etc. infallibly. These\nmatters are not up for private interpretation.\n\nThis is the reason Peter goes on to talk about the deceptiveness of\nthe false teachers. They preferred their own private interpretation\nto the God-given teaching of the apostles. It is through such private\ninterpretation that the traditions of men, so soundly denounced in\nScripture, are started.", "\n\nIf you want parallels the best source is probably the book _Temple\nand Cosmos_ by Hugh Nibley. It is not light reading however.\n\nAs to why these early practices \"only parallel\" and do not exactly\nduplicate the modern LDS ceremony, there are a couple of reasons:\n\n1. Quite likely we do not have the exact original from ancient\ntimes. This stuff was not commonly known but bits and pieces\nundoubtedly spread. (Much as bits and pieces of the modern ceremony\nget known.) What we have in the 40 day literature, the Egyptian\nceremonies, and certain Native American ceremonies is almost\ncertainly not exactly what Jesus taught.", "For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister\nand mother.\" ", "\n\nOn the one hand there are advantages to having the liturgy stay the \nsame. John has described some of these. On the other hand, some people \nseem to start tuning out `the same old words' and pay attention better \nwhen things get changed around. I think innovative priests and liturgy \ncommittees are trying to get our attention and make things more \nmeaningful for us. It drives me crazy too. \n\nDifferent people have differing preferences and needs in liturgy. My \nlocal parish is innovative. I prefer to go to Mass at the next parish \nover. Sometimes we don't have the option of attending a Mass in the \nstyle which best suits us. John put a smiley on it but to \"just offer \nit up\" probably is the solution.\n\nA related issue, that it sounds like John does not have to deal with, is \nthat spouses may have different liturgical tastes. My husband does like \ninnovative litury. It is a challenge to meet both of our spiritual \nneeds without just going our separate ways. When you include the factor \nof also trying to satisfy our children's needs, things get pretty \ncomplicated.\n\nOne thing to remember is that even the most uncongenial Mass is still \nMass.", "\nI would not be too quick to say that they are almost certainly untrue.\nEven strong minded people may fall back on childhood indoctrination,\ngrasp at straws, or do other strange things when faced with extreme\nsuffering, not to mention physiological problems which may lead to\ndiminished mental capacity.\n\nAt the risk of restarting an old argument and accusations of appeal to\nauthority I remind readers of what I posted a while back as a kind of\nobituary for the late atheist Dr. Albert Sabin. In an old interview\nrebroadcast on public radio just after his death he told about a time\na few years before when he was stricken with a very serious illness.\nHe admitted to having cried out to God while critically ill and on a\nrespirator. As it turned out he recovered and lived several more years.\nAfter his recovery he attributed this to early indoctrination. Don't say\nit couldn't happen to you, or that it hasn't happened to others, even if\nyou are one of the few people who have experienced things like this.\nPeople are different. I admire Dr. Sabin for admitting his human weakness\nin that instance. I would not think less of Asimov for similar weakness.\n\nNevertheless I agree that these reports are unsubstantiated and may\nwell be untrue. In any case they are not evidence for anything besides\nthe power of early indoctrination and human frailty.", "Firstly, I am an atheist. I am not posting here as an immature flame\nstart, but rather to express an opinion to my intended audience.\n\nThe meaning of my existence is a question I ask myself daily. I live \nin fear of what will happen when I die. \n\nI bet some of you are licking your lips now, because you think that\nI'm a person on the edge of accepting jeezus. \n\nI was raised in a religious atmosphere, and attended 13 years of\nreligious educational institutions.. I know the bible well. So well\nI can recognize many passages from memory. \n\n<<****Strong opinions start here...****>>\n\n1) The human being is an _animal_ who has, due to his/her advanced\nmental facilities, developed religious as a satisfiable solution to\nexplain the unexplainable. (For example the ancient Greeks believed\nthat Apollo drove his chariot across the sky each day was real. Due\nto the advancement of our technology, we know this to be false. \n\nChristianity is an infectious cult. The reasons it flourishes are \nbecause 1) it gives people without hope or driven purpose in life\na safety blanked to hide behind. \"Oh wow..all i have to do is \nfollow this christian moral standard and I get eternal happiness.\"\nFor all of you \"found jeezus\" , how many of you were \"on the brink?\"\n\nbut i digress... The other reason christianity flourishes is its\ninfectious nature. A best friend of mine breifly entered a christian\ngroup and within months, they set ministry guidelines for him which\nbasicaly said this -->Priority #1 Spread the Word.\n\n\nWe are _just_ animals. We need sleep, food, and we reproduce. And we\ndie. \n\nReligion (especially Christianity) is nothing more than a DRUG.\nSome people use drugs as an escape from reality. Christians inject\nthemselves with jeezus and live with that high. \n\nIt pities me how many millions of lives have been lost in religious\nwars, of which Christianity has had no small part.\n\nWhen Christians see a \"non-believer\", they say that person is blind\nto the truth, but they cannot realize that it is _they_ who live\nwith this mask of fakeness each day. Jesus was just prophet #37696 \nwho happened to have a large influence because at that time the Romans\nwere (circa 69ad) dispersing the Jewish population and communities\nneeded some sort of cohesive element to keep them strong in that time\nof dire need.\n\nI must go. These are but a few of my thoughts on Christianity.\n\n\n", "\nLet's get back to basics. Canon (from the latin) means a rule. If\nwe say that a rule is open then its a rule made to be broken. \nThere is an issue also of measurement against a rule. Thus the words\nthat are spoken need to be compared against the rule/canon but not\nadded to the canon.\n\nIs new revelation necessary? Topical, current, personal revelation\nI'd say is necessary. New revelation for all people for all times\nis not necessary as we have that in Scripture.\n\nYou also seem to confuse canon with scripture. Scripture may speak of\nitself being open - ie God speaking today. It would speak that it is\nclosed in the sense that the canon is unchangeable. (Though the concept\nof canon is later historically.)\n\n\nI agree with the problem of confusion. If prophecy is meant to encourage,\nexhort or correct then is an overlap with scripture. If prophecy is\nmeant to bring a `word' of the form \"the man you live with is not your\nhusband\" then that is knowledge. Yet the exact words their are scripture.\nI would expect the difference to be the motive and means for delivery.\nThe reading of scripture itself can be a powerful force.\n\nRegards\n David", ":\n:\n:::Didn't Christ tell his disciples to arm them selves, shortly \n:::before his crusifiction? (I believe the exact quote was along the\n:::lines of, \"If you have [something] sell it and buy a sword.\")\n:\n::This from a guy who preached love, deference of power to God and\n::renunciation of worldly life in exchange for a life of the spirit? If\n::Jesus did in fact command his disciples to arm themselves, I would\n::take that as yet another reason to reject Christian doctrine, for\n::whatever it's worth.\n\nLike most religions, the doctrine has good and bad in it. I would \ncertainly reject the current implementations of the doctrine.\n:\n:No. The above is a classic example of taking a scripture out of context.\n:It's taken from Luke 22:36. But note vs 37; \"For I tell you that this\n:which is written must be accomplished in me, namely, 'and he will be reckoned\n:with lawless ones'...\". He then stated that two swords were enough\n:for the group to carry to be counted as lawless. \n\nSo having more than the politically correct number of weapons was\ncause to be arresed and killed even then, huh?\n\n:Jesus' overiding message was one of peace (turn other cheek; live by \n:sword die by sword; etc).\n\nYes, of course, as in Matthew 10:34-35 \"Do not suppose that I have come to \nbring peace to the earth; it is not peace I have come to bring but a sword...\"\n:\nRJL", "stuff deleted - but message is:\n: \n \n: \n: >He is God.\n: \n: In other words, the right of might.\n: \n: >He is God.\n: \n: In other words, the right of might.\n: \n: \n: \n: >God granted you the gift of life whether you were sinner or saint.\n: \n: In other words, he can do it, he did it, and your in no position to\n: argue about it.\n: \n: >one that must be killed by Him. Note: I say that God and God alone is\n: >worthy to be Judge, Jury and Executioner. We are not called to carry out\n: >such duties because we are not worthy.\n: \n: In other words, you better do what this God wants you to do, or else!\n: \n: >|> Who is god to impose its rules on us ? Who can tell if god is REALLY so\n: \n: \n: >God is God. Who are we to question the Creator? If you doubt God's doing\n: >in certain situations, do you claim to know a better solution? Would you\n: >be playing the role of God?\n: \n: In other words, its his game, he made the rules, and if you know whats\n: good for you you'll play his game his way.\n: \n\n Careful there, you make God out to be some spoiled little deity that when\nhe can't have his way takes his ball and goes home.\n\nNow that you mention it....\n\nNaw... Can't be right, makes sense. ", "\nOh contrer mon captitan! There is a way. Certainly it is not by human reason.\n Certainly it is not by human experience. (and yet it is both!) To paraphrase\nSartre, the particular is absurd unless it has an infinite reference point. It\nis only because of God's own revelation that we can be absolute about a thing. \nYour logic comes to fruition in relativism. \n\nAh, now it is clear. Ludwig was a desciple of Russell. Ludwig's fame is often\nexplained by the fact that he spawned not one but two significant movements in\ncontemporary philosophy. Both revolve around Tractatus Logico-Philosphicus\n('21) and Philosophical Investigation ('53). Many of Witt's comments and\nimplicit conclusions suggest ways of going beyond the explicit critique of\nlanguage he offers. According to some of the implicit suggestions of Witt's\nthought, ordinary language is an invaluable resource, offering a necessary\nframework for the conduct of daily life. However, though its formal features\nremain the same, its content does not and it is always capable of being\ntranscended as our experience changes and our understanding is deepened, giving\nus a clearer picture of what we are and what we wish to say. On Witt's own\naccount, there is a dynamic fluidity of language. It is for this reason that\nany critique of language must move from talking about the limits of language to\ntalking about its boundaries, where a boundary is understood not as a wall but\na threshold.\n vonWrights's comment that Witt's \"sentences have a content that often lies\ndeep beneath the surface of language.\" On the surface, Witt talks of the\ninsuperable position of ordinary language and the necessity of bringing\nourselves to accept it without question. At the same time, we are faced with\nWitt's own creative uses of language and his concern for bringing about changes\nin our traditional modes of understanding. Philosophy, then, through more\nperspicacious speech, seeks to effect this unity rather than assuming that it\nis already functioning. Yes? The most brilliant of scientists are unable to\noffer a foundation for human speech so long as they reject Christianity! In his\nTractatus we have the well nigh perfect exhibition of the nature of the impasse\nof the scientific ideal of exhaustive logical analysis of Reality by man. \nPerfect language does not exist for fallen man, therefore we must get on about\nour buisness of relating Truth via ordinary language.\n\n This is why John's Gospel is so dear to most Christians. It is so simple in\nit conveyance of the revealation of God, yet so full of unlieing depth of\nunderstanding. He viewed Christ from the OT concept of \"as a man thinketh, so\nhe is.\" John looked at the outward as only an indicator of what was inside,\nthat is the consciousness of Christ. And so must we. Words are only vehicals\nof truth. He is truth. The scriptures are plain in their expounding that\nthere is a Truth and that it is knowable. THere are absolutes, and they too\nare knowable. However, they are only knowable when He reveals them to the\nindividual. There is, and we shouldn't shy from this, a mysticism to\nChristianity. Paul in ROm 8 says there are 3 men in the world. There is the\none who does not have the Spirit and therefore can not know the things of the\nSpirit (the Spirit of Truth) and there is the one who has the Spirit and has\nthe capacity to know of the Truth, but there is the third. THe one who not\nonly has the Spirit, but that the Spirit has him! Who can know the deep things\nof God and reveal them to us other than the Spirit. And it is only the deep\nthings of GOd that are absolute and true.\n There is such a thing as true truth and it is real, it can be experienced\nand it is verifiable. I disagree with Dr Nancy's Sweetie's conclusion because\nif it is taken to fruition it leads to relativism which leads to dispair. \n\n\"I would know the words which He would answer me, and understand what He would\nsay unto me.\" Job 23ff\n\n--Rex", "\n\n\nMust there be a \"why\" to this? I ask because of what you also\n assume about God-- namely, that He just exists, with no \"why\"\n to His existence. So the question is reversed, \"Why can't\n we assume the universe just exists as you assume God to\n \"just exist\"? Why must there be a \"why\" to the universe?\"\n\n\nIt may be that one day man not only can create life but can also\n create man. Now, I don't see this happening in my lifetime,\n nor do I assert it is probable. But the possibility is there,\n given scientists are working hard at \"decoding\" out \"genetic\n code\" to perhaps help cure disease of a genetic variation.\n Again, though, must there be \"why\" or a \"divine prupose\" to\n man's existence?\n\n\nAs far as we can tell, man falls into the \"mammal\" catagory. Now,\n if there were something more to the man (say, a soul), then\n we have yet to find evidence of such. But as it is now, man\n is a mammal (babies are born live, mother gives milk, we're\n warm-blooded, etc.) as other mammals are and is similar in\n genetic construction to some of them (in particular, primates).\n For more on this check out talk.origins.\n\n\nWell, then, Buddhism, Confucianism, Taoism, Hinduism, Judaism,\n Zoerasterism, Shintoism, and Islam should fit this bit of logic\n quite nicely... :-) All have depth, all have enduring values,\n thus all must be true...\n\nStephen\n\n _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ * Atheist\n _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ * Libertarian\n _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ * Pro-individuality\n _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ * Pro-responsibility\n_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Jr. * and all that jazz...\n", "But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet\nfrom fear of evil.", "[4) \"Nothing unclean shall enter [heaven]\" (Rev. 21.27). Therefore,\nbabies are born in such a state that should they die, they are cuf off\nfrom God and put in hell, which is exactly the doctrine of St. Augustine\nand St. Thomas. Of coures, having only original sins on thier souls,\nthey suffer the lightest punishment, the loss of the vision oand\npresence of God, but that does not change the undeniable fact that they\ncannot possibly come to a forgivenss of original sin, nor can they\ninherit eternal life. \"That,\" as St. Augustine said, \"Is what the\nPelagian heretics taught.\" Which is why he said later, \"If you want to\nbe a Christian, do not teach that unbaptized infants can come to a\nforgivenss of original sin.\"]", "\n\n\n You haven't fully explained the atheist position. Many theists believe that\nthere is \"no proof of the existence of God\" but choose to believe in him\nanyway. I haven't yet found an argument for atheism that can't quickly be\nbroken down to unprovable assumptions. This isn't a problem with me (everybody\nneeds to have a faith) but if you believe that you can provide a \"purely \nlogical\" argument for the nonexistence of God, I'd really like to see it.\n\n\n\n Ahh...but when you use science and reason, you have faith in certain beliefs\nof the scientific method--for example:\n\n The physical laws of the universe are stable.\n Our observations of reality are a valid basis for a determination of truth.\n Objective reality exists.\n Logical argument is a valid way to answer all questions.\n \n Can you prove any of these?", "\n(WEBSTER: myth: \"a traditional or legendary story...\n ...a belief...whose truth is accepted uncritically.\")\n\nHow does that qualify?\nIndeed, it's almost oxymoronic...a rather amusing instance.\nI've found that most atheists hold almost no atheist-views as\n\"accepted uncritically,\" especially the few that are legend.\nMany are trying to explain basic truths, as myths do, but\nthey don't meet the other criterions.\nAlso...\n\n\nYou accuse him of referencing mythology, then you procede to\nlaunch your own xtian mythology. (This time meeting all the\nrequirements of myth.)\n\n\nAh, but not everyone \"knows\" that god exists. So you have\na fallacy.\n\n\nAnd that makes it true? Holding with the Bible rules out controversy?\nRead the FAQ. If you've read it, you missed something, so re-read.\n(Not a bad suggestion for anyone...I re-read it just before this.)\n\n\n...should I repeat what I wrote above for the sake of getting\nit across? You may trust the Bible, but your trusting it doesn't\nmake it any more credible to me.\n\nIf the Bible says that everyone knows, that's clearly reason\nto doubt the Bible, because not everyone \"knows\" your alleged\ngod's alleged existance.\n\n\n1) No, they don't have to ignore the Bible. The Bible is far\nfrom universally accepted. The Bible is NOT a proof of god;\nit is only a proof that some people have thought that there\nwas a god. (Or does it prove even that? They might have been\nwriting it as series of fiction short-stories. As in the\ncase of Dionetics.) Assuming the writers believed it, the\nonly thing it could possibly prove is that they believed it.\nAnd that's ignoring the problem of whether or not all the\ninterpretations and Biblical-philosophers were correct.\n\n2) There are people who have truly never heard of the Bible.\n\n3) Again, read the FAQ.\n\n\nBzzt...wrong answer!\nGravity is directly THERE. It doesn't stop exerting a direct and\nrationally undeniable influence if you ignore it. God, on the\nother hand, doesn't generally show up in the supermarket, except\non the tabloids. God doesn't exert a rationally undeniable influence.\nGravity is obvious; gods aren't.\n\n\nNo, human reason hasn't always come back to the existance of\n\"God\"; it has usually come back to the existance of \"god\".\nIn other words, it doesn't generally come back to the xtian\ngod, it comes back to whether there is any god. And, in much\nof oriental philosophic history, it generally doesn't pop up as\nthe idea of a god so much as the question of what natural forces\nare and which ones are out there. From a world-wide view,\nhuman nature just makes us wonder how the universe came to\nbe and/or what force(s) are currently in control. A natural\ntendancy to believe in \"God\" only exists in religious wishful\nthinking.\n\n\nXtianity is no more reasonable than most other religions, and\nit's reasonableness certainly doesn't merit eminence.\nDivine justice...well, it only seems just to those who already\nbelieve in the divinity.\nFirst, not all atheists believe the same things about human\nnature. Second, whether most atheists are correct or not,\nYOU certainly are not correct on human nature. You are, at\nthe least, basing your views on a completely eurocentric\napproach. Try looking at the outside world as well when\nyou attempt to sum up all of humanity.", "\n\nMy, this distinction seems quite arbitrary.\n\n Blessed is the man whose iniquities are forgiven, whose sin is covered.\n (Ps. 32:1).\n\nand quoted by the apostle Paul:\n\n Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God\n imputeth righteousness without works,\n Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins\n are covered.\n Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. (Rom. 4:6-8)\n\nThe biblical perspective seems to be that foregiveness and covering are\nparallel/equivalent concepts in both testaments. The dispensational\ndistinction is unwarranted.\n\n\nI'm sure Rex has Scripture to back this up. You're suggesting Jesus is\ngoing to travel around dealing with individual violations of His law -- for\nmillions perhaps billions of people. Such activity for Moses the lawgiver\nwas considered unwise (cf. Ex. 18:13ff). It makes for interesting\nspeculation, though.\n\nI'll leave comments on the so-called \"bema seat\" vs. \"throne\" judgments to\nsomeone else. This also seems like more unnecessary divisions ala\ndispensationalism.\n", "\n\n\nIs there any difference in saying \n\n\"Absolute Truth exists, but some people think its a lie\"\n\nand\n\n\"Truth is relative\" ?\n\nI think there is: in both examples, the first statement is a\nfundamental disagreement between at least two people; the \nsecond statement is agreed upon by all.\n\nTo put it another way, someone who says objective values exist\ndoes not agree that values are subjective.", "\n First, I don't expect them to love me if they don't even know I\n exist. Secondly, I wouldn't expect them to love me simply because\n they were my creator. I would expect to have to earn that love.\n\n\n Are you daft? How do I love something I don't believe exists?\n Come back when you've learned to love your third testicle.\n\n\n At which point you have stepped over the line and become a\n complete asshole. Even though it's your first offense, I won't\n let it slip becuase I've heard it too goddamned many times.\n\n You love Jesus because deep in your heart you're a cannibalistic\n necrophiliac. Because I say so, and I'm much more qualified to\n assess your motivations than you are.\n\n Fortunately, there are some things I get to accept on evidence\n rather than faith. One of them being that until christians like\n yourself quit being so fucking arrogant, there will never be\n peace. You've all made sure of that.\n\n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ \n\nBob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM \n\nThey said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,\nand sank Manhattan out at sea.", "I simply wish to thank Dave Mielke (dave@bnr.ca) for sharing the\ntract concerning God's love. It was most welcome to me and a great\nsource of comfort.", "\n If the emphasis is on the \"in general\", then of course you're\n correct, since you haven't really said anything. If we restrict\n our observations to practiced religions, there are lots of\n examples of god mandated genocide. Just ask the Canaanites. The\n point is that if you believe in a god, and if you believe he has\n ordered you to eliminate an entire race, you will likely make the\n attempt. After all, if it was OK in the past, it could surely be\n OK in the present.\n\n\n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ \n\nBob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM \n\nThey said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,\nand sank Manhattan out at sea.", "Just a quick reminder: \n\n\tThe way you are interpreting those passages is your opinion. You make\n\tit sound as if your opinion is somehow an undisputable fact.\n\n\tMany would interpret the passages you cite very differently.\n\n\t(Many have--several of the great theologians you mentioned do that \n\tvery thing. These were people who had much more expertise in the\n\tinterpretation of scripture than you or me or probably anyone reading\n\tthis newsgroup. To say that all of them are wrong and you are right\n\tis, in my opinion, (notice those last three words) coming pretty darn\n\tclose to the sin of pride. \n\n\tIn the future I would suggest you not be so absolutist in your \n\tinterpretations, especially when contradicting highly respected\n\tdoctors of Christianity.", "but whoever listens to me will live in safety and be at ease, without fear of\nharm.\" \nProverbs 1:33\n", "Correction:\n\n |The story I related is one of the seven apparitions\n |approved by our Church as worthy of belief. It happened\n |in La Salle, France.\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nThat should be La Salette, France, 1846.\nI must admit, geography is not my forte.\n\n |[...]\n\n |Once again, the Lamb succeeds.", "\nIt is interesting that you posted those lyrics, because just the\nother day I was thinking of doing the same. I like those lyrics,\nsince whenever I am approached by judgemental, pharisitical,\nevangelical fundamentalists who throw the Bible at me because\nI have long hair, wear a black leather jacket, and listen to Black\nSabbath, I have something to throw back. Usually their chins drop\nand they come up speechless over those not very satanic lyrics.\n\nIt just goes to show that there are more important evils in the\nworld to battle than rock lyrics...........\n\n", "I am writing a paper on religion and how it reflects \nand or affects modern music. This brief questionaire is summary of\nthe questions I would like answered. A response is requested and \ncan be mailed to me directly at: \n \n gtd259a@prism.gatech.edu \n \n *PLEASE MAIL - DO NOT POST*\n\nThanks in advance,\nMatt Kressel\n\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n1.) How do you feel about groups like Diecide, Slayer, and Dio who\nfreely admit to practicing satanism and preach it in their songs?\n\n\n2.) How do you feel about groups like Petra, old Stryper, Whitecross,\nand Holy Soldier who promote and sing about Cristianity?\n\n\n3.) How do you feel about groups like Front 242, XTC, Revolting Cocks,\nMinor Threat, and Ministry who condone and sing about atheism?\n\n\n4.) How do you feel about bands like Shelter who preach the Hare\nKrishna religion and other minority(but not unheard of) religions?\n\n\n5.a) Do you feel there is any difference between promoting music that\nsupports Cristianity and music that condones satanism?\n\n b) Why do you feel this way?\n\n\n6.) What types of music do you listen to?\n\n\n7.a) How often do you purchase music?\n\n b) How often does that music contain lyrics with undertones in\nreligion?\n\n\n8.a) Do you feel that music one listens to affects the way one views\na particular religion? Religion in general?\n\n b) How does it affect the way you view your religion? All religions?\n\n\n9.) FEEL FREE TO ADD ANY COMMENTS HERE\n\n\n\n\n", "\n#Rick Anderson replied to my letter with...\n#\n#ra> In article ,\n#ra>\n\n(...)\n\n# Just briefly, on something that you mentioned in passing. You refer to\n# differing interpretations of \"create,\" and say that many Christians may\n# not agree. So what? That is really irrelevant. We do not base our faith\n# on how many people think one way or another, do we? The bottom line is\n# truth, regardless of popularity of opinions.\n\nIt may be \"irrelevant\" to you and *your* personal beliefs (or should I say\n\"bias\"?), but it is relevant to me and many others. You're right, \"the\nbottom line IS truth,\" independant from you or anyone else. Since you\nproclaim \"truths\" as a self-proclaimed appointee, may I ask you by what\nauthority you do this? Because \"it says so in the Bible?\" --Does the\nBible \"say so,\" or is it YOU, or someone else, who interprets whether a\nscripture or doctrine conforms to your particular liking or \"disapproval\"?\n\nExcuse moi, but your line of \"truths\" haven't moved me one bit to persuade\nme that my beliefs are erroneous. Of all the \"preachers\" of \"truth\" on\nthis net, you have struck me as a self-righteous member of the wrecking\ncrew, with no positive message to me or any other Latter-day Saint...\nBTW, this entire discussion reminds me a lot of the things said by Jesus\nto the pharisees: \"ye hypocrite(s) . . . ye preach about me with your lips,\nbut your hearts are far removed from me...\"\n\n# Also, I find it rather strange that in trying to persuade that created\n# and eternally existent are equivalent, you say \"granted the Mormon\n# belief...\" You can't grant your conclusion and then expect the point to\n# have been addressed. In order to reply to the issue, you have to address\n# and answer the point that was raised, and not just jump to the\n# conclusion that you grant.\n\nSophistry. Look who's talking: \"jumping to conclusions?\" You wouldn't do\nthat yourself, right? All YOU address is your own convictions, regardless\nwhether we come up with any Biblical scriptures which supports our points\nof view, because you reject such interpretations without any consideration\nwhatsoever.\n\n#\n# The Bible states that Lucifer was created. The Bible states that Jesus\n# is the creator of all. The contradiction that we have is that the LDS\n# belief is that Jesus and Lucifer were the same.\n\nA beautiful example of disinformation and a deliberate misrepresentation\nof lds doctrine. The former KGB would have loved to employ you.\nJesus and lucifer are not \"the same,\" silly, and you know it.\n\n(...)\n\n# The Mormon belief is that all are children of God. Literally. There is\n# nothing symbolic about it. This however, contradicts what the Bible\n# says. The Bible teaches that not everyone is a child of God:\n\nCorrection: it may contradict would YOU think the Bible says. The Bible\nindeed does teach that not all are children of God in the sense that they\n\"belong to\" or follow God in His footsteps. Satan and his followers have\nrebelled against God, and are not \"children (=followers/redeemed) of God,\"\nbut it doesn't mean that they were not once created by God, but chose to\nseparate themselves from those who chose to follow God and His plan of\nsalvation.\n\n#\n# The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the\n# kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked \"one\";\n# (Matthew 13:38)\n\nkingdom are those who have remained valiant in their testimony of Jesus\n(and have shown \"works of repentance, etc.), and the children of the\nwicked one are those who rebelled against God and the lamb. The issue\nof satan's spirit-origin (and of those who followed him) has not been\naddressed in this and other verses you copied from your Bible. You\npurposefully obscured the subject by swamping your \"right\" with non-\nrelated scriptures.\n\n(...lots of nice scriptures deleted (NOT Robert W. copyrighted) though...)\n\n#ra> > We are told that, \"And this is life eternal, that they might know\n#ra> > thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.\"\n#ra> > (John 17:3). Life eternal is to know the only true God. Yet the\n#ra> > doctrines of the LDS that I have mentioned portray a vastly\n#ra> > different Jesus, a Jesus that cannot be reconciled with the Jesus of\n#ra> > the Bible. They are so far removed from each other that to proclaim\n\nCorrection: \"my\" Jesus is indeed different than your Jesus, and CAN be\nreconciled with the Jesus in the Bible. --Not your interpretation of Him,\nI concur, but I honestly couldn't care less.\n\n#ra> > one as being true denies the other from being true. According to the\n#ra> > Bible, eternal life is dependent on knowing the only true God, and\n#ra> > not the construct of imagination.\n\nIn this single posting of yours, I've seen more \"constructs of imagination\"\nthan in all of the pro-lds mails combined I have read so far in this news\ngroup. First get your lds-facts straight before you dare preaching to us\nabout \"the only true God,\" whom you interpret according to your own likes\nand dislikes, but whose image I cannot reconcile with what I know about\nHim myself. I guess your grandiose self-image does not allow for other\nfaiths, believing in the divinity of Jesus Christ, but in a different\nway or fashion than your own. Not that it really matters, the mission\nand progress of the lds church will go on, boldly and nobly, and no mob\nor opponent can stop the work from progressing, until it has visited\nevery continent, swept every clime, and sounded in every ear.\n\n# This is really a red herring. It doesn't address any issue raised, but\n# rather, it seeks to obfuscate. The fact that some groups try to read\n# something into the Bible, doesn't change what the Bible teaches.\n\nSigh. \"What the Bible teaches\"? Or: \"what the bible teaches according to\nRobert Weiss and co.?\" I respect the former, I reject the latter without\nthe remotest feeling that I have rejected Jesus. On the contrary. And by\nthe way, I do respect your interpretations of the Bible, I even grant you\nbeing a Christian (following your own image of Him), as much as I am a\nChristian (following my own image of Him in my heart).\n\n(...)\n\n# Most of the other replies have instead hop-scotched to the issue of\n# Bruce McConkie and whether his views were 'official doctrine.' I don't\n# think that it matters if McConkie's views were canon. That is not the\n# issue. Were McConkie's writings indicative of Mormon belief on this\n# subject is the real issue. The indication from Rick is that they may\n# certainly be.\n\nThe issue is, of course, that you love to use anything to either mis-\nrepresent or ridicule the lds church. The issue of \"official doctrine\"\nis obviously very important. McConkie's views have been controversial\n(e.g. \"The Seven Deadly Heresies\" has made me a heretic! ;-) at best,\nor erroneous at worst (\"blacks not to receive the priesthood in this\ndispensation\"). I respect him as someone who has made his valuable\ncontribution to the church, but I personally do NOT rely on his personal\ninterpretations (his book \"Mormon Doctrine\" is oftentimes referred to\nas \"McConkie's Bible\" in mormon circles) on mormon doctrine. I rather\nlook to official (doctrinal) sources, and... to Hugh Nibley's books!\n(The last comment is an lds-insider reference.) Summarizing: McConkie\nwas a wise man who contributed undoubtedly far more to the kingdom of\nGod than I have, but whose views are by no means dogma or accepted\ndoctrine, some of it clearly belongs to personal interpretation and\nspeculation. But having said this, I find McConkie (even in his most\nbiased and speculative moments) far more thought-provoking than the\ntrash coming from your proverbial pen. I'm somewhat appalled that I have\nallowed myself to sink as low as you in this posting...\n\n=============================\nRobert Weiss\npsyrobtw@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu\n", "\n#Recently, I've asked myself a rather interesting question: What RIGHT does\n#god have on our lives (always assuming there is a god, of course...!) ??\n#\n#In his infinite wisdom, he made it perfectly clear that if we don't live\n#according to his rules, we will burn in hell. Well, with what RIGHT can god\n#make that desicion? Let's say, for the sake of argument, that god creates\n#every one of us (directly or indirectly, it doesn't matter.). What then\n#happens, is that he first creates us, and then turns us lose. Well, I didn't\n#ask to be created.\n#\n#Let's make an analogue. If a scientist creates a unique living creature\n#(which has happened, it was even patented...!!!), does he then have the\n#right to expect it to behave in a certain matter, or die...?\n\nDear Joakim, let me begin by saying that these are excellent questions,\nbut that by asking, you will find as many different explanations as there\nare respondents. As a Latter-day Saint, I believe that all of us (you,\nme, etc.) lived once as spirit-children of God the Father (Hebrews 12:9)\nin the pre-mortal existance. In order to continue our eternal progression,\nan earthly probationary time was required. (To live by faith, not by\nsight, to choose good over evil, and to prepare ourselves in all things\nto become worthy of a higher order of existance.) We believe that all of\nGod's spirit-offspring were once assembled to discuss the specifics of\nthis earthly sojourn. One-third chose for Lucifer's plan, most followed\nthe Firstborn (the pre-mortal Jesus Christ). Lucifer's aspirations (\"I\nwill exalt my throne above the stars of God . . .\" Isaiah 14:12-17, etc.)\nresulted into the rebellion of his followers against the Firstborn and\nthose who followed Him, resulting in the casting out of Lucifer (who\nbecame Satan, the father of lies) and one-third of the hosts of heaven\n(\"And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast\nthem to the earth . . .\" Revelation 12:4) as demons (evil spirits).\n\nTo get back on OUR choice to be born on this earth, and to be subject to\nGod and His plan (for good or bad, based upon our obedience and choices),\nwe made that choice individually. (God speaking to Job: \"Where wast thou\nwhen I laid the foundations of the earth, . . . when the morning stars\nsang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?\" Job 38:4-7). We\nlost the knowledge of our pre-mortal existance (the \"Veil of Forgetful-\nness,\" somewhere in Psalms), in order to live by faith, not by sight.\n\nYou may not accept this scenario, neither do quite a few who rely on the\nBible alone, which offers only fragmentary insights into this particular\naspect of our existence as individuals, as sons and daughters of God.\n\n#Who is god to impose its rules on us ? Who can tell if god is REALLY so\n#righteous as god likes us to believe? Are all christians a flock of sheep,\n#unable to do otherwise that follow the rest?\n#\n#Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.\n\n(All Christians, by definition, ARE a flock of sheep, following the Shepherd\nas they understand Him ;-) --But in any event, not all Christians believe\nin the same theology, such as the one Latter-day Saints believe in. (They\nwill cry \"heresy\" and other accusations of \"perverting\" the doctrines of\nthe Bible, while they themselves believe in a myriad of interpretations, as\nfound in their catechisms and various do-it-yourself Bible-study manuals...)\n\nAs for me, I have a personal conviction that the pre-existance scenario as\nexplained above, is most in harmony with Biblical doctrine, some Dead Sea\nScroll books, the pseudographion, other (Jewish) sources, and last but not\nleast, modern-day revelation on the subject.\n\n#I just want to point out that this is not sarcasm, I mean it.\n#\n# How should one deal with a man who is convinced that\n# he is acting according to God's will, and who there-\n# Jokke fore believes that he is doing you a favour by\n# stabbing you in the back?\n#\n# -Voltaire\n", "\nProbably because it IS rape.\n\n\nSo nothing. It may work for some, but not for others: it doesn't give any\ninsight into an overall God or overall truth of a religion- it would seem to be\ndependent solely on the individual, as well as individually-created. And since\nChristians have failed to show us how there way of life is in any wy better\nthan ours, I do not see why the attempt to try it is necessary, or even\nparticularly attractive.\n\n\nWell, we will nerver know for sure if we were told the truth or not, but at the\nvery least there is a bit more evidence pointing to the fact that, say, there\nwas a military conflict in Vietnam 25 years ago, then there is a supernatural\ndiety who wants us to live a certain way. The fact that Jesus warned against\nit means nothing. *I* warn against it too. Big deal.\n\n\nThis is not true. The first two choices here (life and death) are scantily\ndocumented, and the last one is total malarky unless one uses the Bible, and\nthat is totally circular. Perhaps it be better to use the imagination, or\none's ignorance. Someone else will address this I'm sure, and refer you to\nplenty of documentation...\n\n\nHow is this? There is nothing more disgusting than Christian attempts to\nmanipulate/interpret the Old Testament as being filled with signs for the\ncoming of Christ. Every little reference to a stick or bit of wood is\nautmoatically interpreted as the Cross. What a miscarriage of philology.\n\n\nWell, since we have skeptical hearts (thank goodness,) there is no way to get\ninto us. Here we have the irreconcilable difference: Christians glorify\nexactly what we tend to despise or snub: trust/belief/faith without knowledge. \nIf I am lucky one day and I happen to be thinking of God at the same time my\nenkephalins go up, then I may associate this as a sign of God (it will \"feel\"\nright, and I will trust without knowing). Maybe. Religosity does not seem to\nbe anything that is conclusively arrived at, but rather it seems to be more of\na sudden affliction...\nI believe many of us were willing to die for what we believed, many of us were\nnot. The question is, is suchg an attitude reflective of a _correct_ or\nhealthy morality. IT would seem not to be. The same thing could reflect\nfanaticism, for example, and is any case an expression of simple selfishness.\n-- \n\n--Adam", "\nYes, it's important to realize that all actions have consequences,\nand that \"rules\" were made for our own good. But to suggest that a\n*disease* is a *punishment* for certain types of sin I think is \ntaking things much too far. If we got some kind of mouth disease\nfor lying, would any of us have mouths left? What if we developed\nblindness every time we lusted after someone or something? I dare\nsay all of us would be walking into walls.\n\nYes, sin can have terrible consequences, but we need to be *real*\ncareful when saying that the consequences are a *punishment* for \nsin. The Jews of Jesus's time believed that all sickness was the\nresult of a sin. Then Jesus healed a blind man and said that man was\nblind to show the glory of God, not because of sin. If AIDS, or any\nother STD is a *punishment\" for sexual sin, what do we do with \ndiseases like cancer, or multiple sclerosis, which are just as\ndebilitating and terrible as AIDS, yet are not usually linked to a\nspecific behavior or lifestyle?\n\nAtonement is *extremely* important, but I think you've missed the mark\nabout as far as you can by suggesting that AIDS is an atonement for sin.\nThe atonement for sin is JESUS CHRIST - period. This is the central\nmessage of the Gospel. A perfect sacrifice was required for our sins,\nand was made in the Lamb of God. His sacrifice atoned for *all* of\nour sins, past present and future. God does not require pennance for\nour sins, nor does he require us to come up with our own atonement. He\nhas graciously already done that for us. To suggest that AIDS or \nsome other consequence is an atonement for sins is literally spitting\non the sacrifice that Jesus made.\n\nIn case you couldn't tell, I get *extremely* angry and upset when\nI see things like this. Instead of rationalizing our own fears and\nphobias, we need to be reaching out to people with AIDS and other\nsocially unacceptable diseases. Whether they got the disease through\ntheir own actions or not is irrelevant. They still need Jesus Christ,\nno more and no less than we do. I've said this before, but I think\nit's a good analogy. People with AIDS are modern-day lepers. Jesus\nhealed many lepers. He can also heal people with AIDS, maybe not on\nthis earth, but in an ultimate sense. My next-door neighbor has AIDS.\nShe has recently come to have a much deeper and more committed \nrelationship with God. Her theology isn't what I would want it to be,\nbut God's grace covers her. The amazing thing is that she is gaining\nweight (she's had the disease for over 2 years) and her health is\nexcellent apart from occassional skin rashes and such. She attributes\nher improvement in her health to God's intervention in her life. Who\nare we to suggest that her disease is some kind of punishment? It\nseems to me that God is being glorified through her disease.\n\nPaul Overstreet, the country singer, has a good song title that I \nthink applies to all of us - But for the Grace of God, There Go I\n(or something like that).\n\nMay we all experience and accept God's grace.\n\n\n===============================================================================\nPaul Conditt\t\tInternet: conditt@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu\nApplied Research\tPhone:\t (512) 835-3422 FAX: (512) 835-3416/3259\n Laboratories\t\tFedex:\t 10000 Burnet Road, Austin, Texas 78758-4423\nUniversity of Texas\tPostal:\t P.O. Box 8029, Austin, Texas 78713-8029\nAustin, Texas <----- the most wonderful place in Texas to live\n", "Greetings and Salutations!\n\nI would like to get in touch with people who\n(a) consider themselves Christians (you define it), and\n(b) are in the Martial Arts\n\nSome topics for discussion:\n\t- your particular martial art\n\t- your view of the relationship between\n\t\tChristianity and your art\n\t- your view of the relationship between\n\t\t*your* Christianity and your art\n\t- why should a Christian participate in MA\n\t- why shouldn't a Christian participate in MA\n\t- Biblical views of MA; pro or con.\n\nFor example, I heard from one fellow:\n\t\"...I tried the Karate for Christ thing and it wasn't for me...\"\n\t- why or why not?\n\nAs an aside, I am involved (in *NO* official way) with an\norganization called the Christian Black Belt Association and\nI would also like to distribute info regarding upcoming events\nto *those who are interested*. No, you won't be put on any\n\"mailing list\" nor will your name be \"sold\".\n\nHowever, if you ARE intested in an email list, let me know.\n\nI am interested in email replies ONLY as this is cross-posted \nto groups I don't normally read. If anyone wants a summary\nor, of course, on-going discussion, then let me know.\n\n\nShalom,\nRobert Switzer\nka2czu@cbnewsh.att.com", "\nLet me say that the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ is\ncentral to Christianity. If you personally believe that Jesus Christ\ndied for you, you are a part of the Christian body of believers.\n\nWe are all still human. We don't know it all, but homosexual or heterosexual,\nwe all strive to follow Jesus. The world is dying and needs to hear about\nJesus Christ.\n\nAre you working together with other Christians to spread the Gospel?", "Archive-name: atheism/faq\nAlt-atheism-archive-name: faq\nLast-modified: 5 April 1993\nVersion: 1.1\n\n Alt.Atheism Frequently-Asked Questions\n\nThis file contains responses to articles which occur repeatedly in\nalt.atheism. Points covered here are ones which are not covered in the\n\"Introduction to Atheism\"; you are advised to read that article as well\nbefore posting.\n\nThese answers are not intended to be exhaustive or definitive. The purpose of\nthe periodic FAQ postings is not to stifle debate, but to raise its level. If\nyou have something to say concerning one of these questions and which isn't\ncovered by the answer given, please feel free to make your point.\n\nOverview of contents:\n\n \"What is the purpose of this newsgroup?\"\n \"Hitler was an atheist!\"\n \"The Bible proves it\"\n \"Pascal's Wager\"\n \"What is Occam's Razor?\"\n \"Why it's good to believe in Jesus\"\n \"Why I know that God exists\"\n \"Einstein and \"God does not play dice\"\"\n \"Everyone worships something\"\n \"Why there must be a causeless cause\"\n \"The universe is so complex it must have been designed\"\n \"Independent evidence that the Bible is true\"\n \"Godel's Incompleteness Theorem\"\n \"George Bush on atheism and patriotism\"\n \"I know where hell is!\"\n \"Biblical contradictions wanted\"\n \"The USA is a Christian nation\"\n \"The USA is not a Christian nation\"\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nSubject: What is the purpose of this newsgroup?\n\nTypical posting:\n\nWhy have a newsgroup about atheism? Why do atheists organize in groups? \nWhat is there to discuss?\n\nResponse:\n\nMany things are discussed here, including:\n\n* Whether it is reasonable to feign theism in order to avoid upsetting one's\n family\n* Prayer in schools\n* Discrimination against atheists\n* Sunday trading laws\n* The Satanic Child Abuse myth\n* Whether one should be an overt atheist or 'stay in the closet'\n* How religious societies prey (sic) on new college students\n* How to get rid of unwanted proselytizers\n* Whether religion is a danger to society and/or the individual\n* Why people become atheists\n\nOf course, inevitably alt.atheism tends to attract evangelical Christians\nlooking for someone to convert. Most readers of the newsgroup don't \nwant to be preached to, although a few seem to derive perverse pleasure \nfrom tearing apart particularly ill-considered or uninformed postings.\n\n------------------------------\n\nSubject: Hitler was an atheist!\n\nTypical posting:\n\nHitler was an atheist, and look at what he did!\n\nResponse:\n\nAdolf Hitler was emphatically not an atheist. As he said himself:\n\n The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in\n his own denomination, of making _people_stop_just_talking_\n superficially_of_God's_will,_and_actually_fulfill_God's_will,_and_\n not_let_God's_word_be_desecrated._[orig. ital.]\n\n For God's will gave men their form, their essence, and their\n abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the\n Lord's creation, the divine will. Therefore, let every man be\n active, each in his own denomination if you please, and let every\n man take it as his first and most sacred duty to oppose anyone who\n in his activity by word or deed steps outside the confines of his\n religious community and tries to butt into the other.\n\n [...]\n\n Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will\n of the Almighty Creator: _by_defending_myself_against_the_Jew,_I_am_\n fighting_for_the_work_of_the_Lord._[orig. ital.]\n\n -- Adolf Hitler, from \"Mein Kampf\", trans. Ralph Mannheim.\n\nOf course, someone bad believing something does not make that belief\nwrong. It's also entirely possible that Hitler was lying when he claimed \nto believe in God. We certainly can't conclude that he's an atheist, \nthough.\n\n------------------------------\n\nSubject: The Bible proves it\n\nTypical posting:\n\nIn the Bible it says that...\n\nResponse:\n\nMost of the readers of alt.atheism feel that the Bible is of questionable\naccuracy, as it was written thousands of years ago by many authors who were\nrecording oral tradition that existed many years before. Thus, any claimed\n'truth' in it is of questionable legitimacy. This isn't to say that The\nBible has no truth in it; simply that any truth must be examined before being\naccepted.\n\nMany of the readers of this group also feel that because any passage is\nsubject to \"interpretation\", any claim that a passage 'means' one thing and\none thing only is not legitimate.\n\nNote that this feeling tends to extend to other books.\n\nIt is also remarkable to many atheists that theists tend to ignore other\nequally plausible religious books in favour of those of their own religion.\n\n------------------------------\n\nSubject: Pascal's Wager\n\nTypical posting:\n\nIf you believe in God and turn out to be incorrect, you have lost nothing --\nbut if you don't believe in God and turn out to be incorrect, you will go to\nhell. Therefore it is foolish to be an atheist.\n\nResponse:\n\nThis argument is known as Pascal's Wager. It has several flaws.\n\nFirstly, it does not indicate which religion to follow. Indeed, there are\nmany mutually exclusive and contradictory religions out there. This is often\ndescribed as the \"avoiding the wrong hell\" problem. If a person is a\nfollower of religion X, he may end up in religion Y's version of hell.\n\nSecondly, the statement that \"If you believe in God and turn out to be\nincorrect, you have lost nothing\" is not true. Suppose you're believing in\nthe wrong God -- the true God might punish you for your foolishness.\nConsider also the deaths that have resulted from people rejecting medicine in\nfavour of prayer.\n\nAnother flaw in the argument is that it is based on the assumption that \nthe two possibilities are equally likely -- or at least, that they are of \ncomparable likelihood. If, in fact, the possibility of there being a God \nis close to zero, the argument becomes much less persuasive. So sadly the\nargument is only likely to convince those who believe already.\n\nAlso, many feel that for intellectually honest people, belief is based on \nevidence, with some amount of intuition. It is not a matter of will or \ncost-benefit analysis.\n\nFormally speaking, the argument consists of four statements:\n\n 1. One does not know whether God exists.\n 2. Not believing in God is bad for one's eternal soul if God does\n exist.\n 3. Believing in God is of no consequence if God does not exist.\n 4. Therefore it is in one's interest to believe in God.\n\nThere are two approaches to the argument. The first is to view 1 as an\nassumption, and 2 as a consequence of it. One problem with this approach, in\nthe abstract, is that it creates information from no information. This is\nconsidered invalid in information theory. Statement 1 indicates one has no\ninformation about God -- but statement 2 indicates that beneficial information\ncan be gained from the absolute lack of information about God. This violates\ninformation entropy -- information has been extracted from no information, at\nno \"cost\".\n\nThe alternative approach is to claim that 1 and 2 are both assumptions. The\nproblem with this is that 2 is then basically an assumption which states the\nChristian position, and only a Christian will agree with that assumption. The\nargument thus collapses to \"If you are a Christian, it is in your interests\nto believe in God\" -- a rather vacuous tautology, and not the way Pascal\nintended the argument to be viewed.\n\nThe biggest reason why Pascal's wager is a failure is that if God is\nomniscient he will certainly know who really believes and who believes as\na wager. He will spurn the latter... assuming he actually cares at all\nwhether people believe in him.\n\n------------------------------\n\nSubject: What is Occam's Razor?\n\nTypical posting:\n\nPeople keep talking about Occam's Razor. What is it?\n\nResponse:\n\nWilliam of Occam formulated a principle which has become known as Occam's \nRazor. In its original form, it said \"Do not multiply entities \nunnecessarily.\" That is, if you can explain something without supposing\nthe existence of some entity, then do so.\n\nNowadays when people refer to Occam's Razor, they generally express it \nmore generally, for example as \"Take the simplest solution\".\n\nThe relevance to atheism is that we can look at two possible explanations \nfor what we see around us:\n\n1. There is an incredibly intricate and complex universe out there, which\ncame into being as a result of natural processes.\n\n2. There is an incredibly intricate and complex universe out there, and \nthere is also a God who created the universe. Clearly this God must be \nof non-zero complexity.\n\nGiven that both explanations fit the facts, Occam's Razor might suggest \nthat we should take the simpler of the two -- solution number one.\nUnfortunately, some argue that there is a third even more simple solution:\n\n3. There isn't an incredibly intricate and complex universe out there. \nWe just imagine that there is.\n\nThis third option leads us logically towards solipsism, which many people \nfind unacceptable.\n \n------------------------------\n\nSubject: Why it's good to believe in Jesus\n\nTypical posting:\n\nI want to tell people about the virtues and benefits of my religion.\n\nResponse:\n\nPreaching is not appreciated.\n\nFeel free to talk about your religion, but please do not write postings that\nare on a \"conversion\" theme. Such postings do not belong on alt.atheism and\nwill be rejected from alt.atheism.moderated (try the newsgroup\ntalk.religion.misc).\n\nYou would doubtless not welcome postings from atheists to your favourite\nnewsgroup in an attempt to convert you; please do unto others as you would\nhave them do unto you!\n\nOften theists make their basic claims about God in the form of lengthy\nanalogies or parables. Be aware that atheists have heard of God and know the\nbasic claims about him; if the sole purpose of your parable is to tell\natheists that God exists and brings salvation, you may as well not post it,\nsince it tells us nothing we have not been told before.\n\n------------------------------\n\nSubject: Why I know that God exists\n\nTypical posting:\n\nI *know* from personal experience and prayer that God exists.\n\nResponse:\n\nJust as many theists have personal evidence that the being they worship\nexists, so many atheists have personal evidence that such beings do not\nexist. That evidence varies from person to person.\n\nFurthermore, without wishing to dismiss your evidence out of hand, many\npeople have claimed all kinds of unlikely things -- that they have been\nabducted by UFOs, visited by the ghost of Elvis, and so on.\n\n------------------------------\n\nSubject: Einstein and \"God does not play dice\"\n\nTypical posting:\n\nAlbert Einstein believed in God. Do you think you're cleverer than him?\n\nResponse:\n\nEinstein did once comment that \"God does not play dice [with the universe]\". \nThis quotation is commonly mentioned to show that Einstein believed in the\nChristian God. Used this way, it is out of context; it refers to Einstein's\nrefusal to accept the uncertainties indicated by quantum theory. Furthermore,\nEinstein's religious background was Jewish rather than Christian.\n\nA better quotation showing what Einstein thought about God is the following:\n\"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of\nwhat exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of\nhuman beings.\"\n\nEinstein was unable to accept Quantum Theory because of his belief in an\nobjective, orderly reality; a reality which would not be subject to random\nevents and which would not be dependent upon the observer. He believed that\nQM was incomplete, and that a better theory would have no need for\nstatistical interpretations. So far no such better theory has been found,\nand much evidence suggests that it never will be.\n\nA longer quote from Einstein appears in \"Science, Philosophy, and Religion, A\nSymposium\", published by the Conference on Science, Philosophy and Religion\nin Their Relation to the Democratic Way of Life, Inc., New York, 1941. In\n\n \"The more a man is imbued with the ordered regularity of all events\n the firmer becomes his conviction that there is no room left by the side\n of this ordered regularity for causes of a different nature. For him\n neither the rule of human nor the rule of divine will exists as an\n independent cause of natural events. To be sure, the doctrine of a\n personal God interfering with natural events could never be\n *refuted* [italics his], in the real sense, by science, for this\n doctrine can always take refuge in those domains in which scientific\n knowledge has not yet been able to set foot.\n\n But I am convinced that such behavior on the part of representatives\n of religion would not only be unworthy but also fatal. For a doctrine\n which is to maintain itself not in clear light but only in the dark,\n will of necessity lose its effect on mankind, with incalculable harm\n to human progress. In their struggle for the ethical good, teachers\n of religion must have the stature to give up the doctrine of a personal\n God, that is, give up that source of fear and hope which in the past\n placed such vast power in the hands of priests. In their labors they\n will have to avail themselves of those forces which are capable\n of cultivating the Good, the True, and the Beautiful in humanity\n itself. This is, to be sure, a more difficult but an incomparably\n more worthy task...\"\n\n\n \"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religous convictions,\n a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a\n personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly.\n If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the\n unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our\n science can reveal it.\"\n\nThe latter quote is from \"Albert Einstein: The Human Side\", edited by Helen \nDukas and Banesh Hoffman, and published by Princeton University Press. \nAlso from the same book:\n\n \"I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics\n to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind \n it.\"\n\nOf course, the fact that Einstein chose not to believe in Christianity does \nnot in itself imply that Christianity is false.\n\n------------------------------\n\nSubject: Everyone worships something\n\nTypical posting:\n\nEveryone worships something, whether it's money, power or God.\n\nResponse:\n\nIf that is true, everyone is a polytheist. Theists care just as much about\nthose things that atheists care about. If the atheists' reactions to (for\nexample) their families amount to worship then so do the theists'.\n\n------------------------------\n\nSubject: Why there must be a causeless cause\n\nTypical posting:\n\nSets of integers that have a lower bound each have a smallest member, so\nchains of causes must all have a first element, a causeless cause.\n\nResponse:\n\nThe set of real numbers greater than zero has a definite lower bound, but has\nno smallest member.\n\nFurther, even if it is true that there must be a causeless cause, that does\nnot imply that that cause must be a conscious supernatural entity, and\nespecially not that any such entity must match the description favoured by\nany particular religion.\n\n------------------------------\n\nSubject: The universe is so complex it must have been designed\n\nTypical posting:\n\nThe presence of design in the universe proves there is a God. Surely you\ndon't think all this appeared here just by chance?\n\nResponse:\n\nThis is known as the Argument From Design.\n\nIt is a matter of dispute whether there is any element of design in the\nuniverse. Those who believe that the complexity and diversity of living\ncreatures on the earth is evidence of a creator are best advised to read the\nnewsgroup talk.origins for a while.\n\nThere is insufficient space to summarize both sides of that debate here.\nHowever, the conclusion is that there is no scientific evidence in favour of\nso-called Scientific Creationism. Furthermore, there is much evidence,\nobservation and theory that can explain many of the complexities of the\nuniverse and life on earth.\n\nThe origin of the Argument by Design is a feeling that the existence of\nsomething as incredibly intricate as, say, a human is so improbable that\nsurely it can't have come about by chance; that surely there must be some \nexternal intelligence directing things so that humans come from the chaos\ndeliberately.\n\nBut if human intelligence is so improbable, surely the existence of a mind\ncapable of fashioning an entire universe complete with conscious beings must\nbe immeasurably more unlikely? The approach used to argue in favour of the\nexistence of a creator can be turned around and applied to the Creationist\nposition.\n\nThis leads us to the familiar theme of \"If a creator created the universe,\nwhat created the creator?\", but with the addition of spiralling \nimprobability. The only way out is to declare that the creator was not\ncreated and just \"is\" (or \"was\").\n\nFrom here we might as well ask what is wrong with saying that the universe\njust \"is\" without introducing a creator? Indeed Stephen Hawking, in his book\n\"A Brief History of Time\", explains his theory that the universe is closed\nand finite in extent, with no beginning or end.\n\nThe Argument From Design is often stated by analogy, in the so-called \nWatchmaker Argument. One is asked to imagine that one has found a watch on\nthe beach. Does one assume that it was created by a watchmaker, or that it\nevolved naturally? Of course one assumes a watchmaker. Yet like the \nwatch, the universe is intricate and complex; so, the argument goes, the \nuniverse too must have a creator.\n\nThe Watchmaker analogy suffers from three particular flaws, over and above \nthose common to all Arguments By Design. Firstly, a watchmaker creates \nwatches from pre-existing materials, whereas God is claimed to have \ncreated the universe from nothing. These two sorts of creation are \nclearly fundamentally different, and the analogy is therefore rather weak.\n\nSecondly, a watchmaker makes watches, but there are many other things in \nthe world. If we walked further along the beach and found a nuclear \nreactor, we wouldn't assume it was created by the watchmaker. The argument \nwould therefore suggest a multitude of creators, each responsible for a \ndifferent part of creation.\n\nFinally, in the first part of the watchmaker argument we conclude that \nthe watch is not part of nature because it is ordered, and therefore \nstands out from the randomness of nature. Yet in the second part of the \nargument, we start from the position that the universe is obviously not \nrandom, but shows elements of order. The Watchmaker argument is thus \ninternally inconsistent.\n\n------------------------------\n\nSubject: Independent evidence that the Bible is true\n\nTypical posting:\n\nThe events of the New Testament are confirmed by independent documentary\nevidence. For example...\n\nResponse:\n\nThe writings of Josephus are often mentioned as independent documentary\nevidence.\n\nEarly versions of Josephus's work are thought not to have mentioned Jesus or\nJames; the extant version discusses John in a non-Christian context. Many\nscholars believe that the original mentioned Jesus and James in passing, but\nthat this was expanded by Christian copyists. Several \"reconstructions\" of\nthe original text have been published to this effect.\n\nMuch information appears in the Ecclesiastical History of Eusebius (about 320\nC.E.). It is worthless as historical material because of the deliberate\nfalsification of the wily Eusebius who is generally acknowledged as 'the\nfirst thoroughly dishonest historian of antiquity.' It is Eusebius who is\ngenerally given the title of authorship for this material.\n\nAside from the New Testament, the biographical information about Jesus is\nmore well-documented. For further information, please consult the Frequently\nAsked Questions file for the newsgroup soc.religion.christian.\n\n------------------------------\n\nSubject: Godel's Incompleteness Theorem\n\nTypical posting:\n\nGodel's Incompleteness Theorem demonstrates that it is impossible for the\nBible to be both true and complete.\n\nResponse:\n\nGodel's First Incompleteness Theorem says that in any consistent formal \nsystem which is sufficiently expressive that it can model ordinary \narithmetic, one can formulate expressions which can never be proven to be \nvalid or invalid ('true' or 'false') within that formal system. (Technically\nspeaking, the system must also be recursive; that is, there must be a decision\nprocedure for determining whether a given string is an axiom within the formal \nsystem.)\n\nEssentially, all such systems can formulate what is known as a \"Liar \nParadox.\" The classic Liar Paradox sentence in ordinary English is \"This \nsentence is false.\" Note that if a proposition is undecidable, the formal \nsystem cannot even deduce that it is undecidable.\n\nThe logic used in theological discussions is rarely well defined, so claims\nthat Godel's Incompleteness Theorem demonstrates that it is impossible to\nprove or disprove) the existence of God are worthless in isolation.\n\nOne can trivially define a formal system in which it is possible to prove the\nexistence of God, simply by having the existence of God stated as an axiom. \nThis is unlikely to be viewed by atheists as a convincing proof, however.\n\nIt may be possible to succeed in producing a formal system built on axioms\nthat both atheists and theists agree with. It may then be possible to show\nthat Godel's Incompleteness Theorem holds for that system. However, that\nwould still not demonstrate that it is impossible to prove that God exists\nwithin the system. Furthermore, it certainly wouldn't tell us anything about\nwhether it is possible to prove the existence of God generally.\n\nNote also that all of these hypothetical formal systems tell us nothing about\nthe actual existence of God; the formal systems are just abstractions.\n\nAnother frequent claim is that Godel's Incompleteness Theorem demonstrates\nthat a religious text (the Bible, the Book of Mormon or whatever) cannot be\nboth consistent and universally applicable. Religious texts are not formal\nsystems, so such claims are nonsense.\n\n------------------------------\n\nSubject: George Bush on atheism and patriotism\n\nTypical posting:\n\nDid George Bush really say that atheists should not be considered citizens?\n\nResponse:\n\nThe following exchange took place at the Chicago airport between Robert I.\nSherman of American Atheist Press and George Bush, on August 27 1988. Sherman\nis a fully accredited reporter, and was present by invitation as a member of\nthe press corps. The Republican presidential nominee was there to announce\nfederal disaster relief for Illinois. The discussion turned to the\npresidential primary:\n\n RS: \"What will you do to win the votes of Americans who are atheists?\"\n\n GB: \"I guess I'm pretty weak in the atheist community. Faith in\n God is important to me.\"\n\n RS: \"Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of\n Americans who are atheists?\"\n\n GB: \"No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens,\n nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under\n God.\"\n\n RS: \"Do you support as a sound constitutional principle the separation\n of state and church?\"\n\n GB: \"Yes, I support the separation of church and state. I'm just not\n very high on atheists.\"\n\nUPI reported on May 8, 1989, that various atheist organizations were\nstill angry over the remarks.\n\nThe exchange appeared in the Boulder Daily Camera on Monday February 27,\n1989. It can also be found in \"Free Enquiry\" magazine, Fall 1988 issue,\nVolume 8, Number 4, page 16.\n\nOn October 29, 1988, Mr. Sherman had a confrontation with Ed Murnane,\ncochairman of the Bush-Quayle '88 Illinois campaign. This concerned a\nlawsuit Mr. Sherman had filed to stop the Community Consolidated School\nDistrict 21 (Chicago, Illinois) from forcing his first-grade Atheist son to\npledge allegiance to the flag of the United States as \"one nation under God\"\n(Bush's phrase). The following conversation took place:\n \n RS: \"American Atheists filed the Pledge of Allegiance lawsuit yesterday.\n Does the Bush campaign have an official response to this filing?\"\n \n EM: \"It's bullshit.\"\n \n RS: \"What is bullshit?\"\n \n EM: \"Everything that American Atheists does, Rob, is bullshit.\"\n \n RS: \"Thank you for telling me what the official position of the Bush\n campaign is on this issue.\"\n\n EM: \"You're welcome.\"\n\nAfter Bush's election, American Atheists wrote to Bush asking him to retract\nhis statement. On February 21st 1989, C. Boyden Gray, Counsel to the\nPresident, replied on White House stationery that Bush substantively stood by\n\n \"As you are aware, the President is a religious man who neither supports\n atheism nor believes that atheism should be unnecessarily encouraged or\n supported by the government.\"\n\nFor further information, contact American Atheist Veterans at the American\nAtheist Press's Cameron Road address.\n\n------------------------------\n\nSubject: I know where hell is!\n\nTypical posting:\n\nI know where Hell is! Hell is in Norway!\n\nResponse:\n\nThere are several towns called \"Hell\" in various countries around the\nworld, including Norway and the USA. Whilst this information is mildly\namusing the first time one hears it, readers of alt.atheism are now \ngetting pretty fed up with hearing it every week.\n\n------------------------------\n\nSubject: Biblical contradictions wanted\n\nTypical posting:\n\nDoes anyone have a list of Biblical contradictions?\n\nResponse:\n \nAmerican Atheist Press publish an atheist's handbook detailing Biblical\ncontradictions. See the accompanying posting on Atheist Resources for\ndetails.\n\nThere is a file containing some Biblical contradictions available from the\narchive-server@mantis.co.uk. See the contacts file for more information.\n\n------------------------------\n\nSubject: The USA is a Christian nation\n\nTypical posting:\n\nBecause of the religious beliefs of the founding fathers, shouldn't the\nUnited States be considered a Christian nation?\n\nResponse:\n\nBased upon the writings of several important founding fathers, it is clear\nthat they never intended the US to be a Christian nation. Here are some\nquotes; there are many more.\n\n \"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society?\n In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the\n ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen\n upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been\n the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert\n the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient\n auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it,\n needs them not.\"\n - James Madison, \"A Memorial and Remonstrance\", 1785\n\n \"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of\n the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved--the Cross.\n Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!\"\n - John Adams, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson\n\n \"History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people\n maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of\n ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will\n always avail themselves for their own purpose.\"\n\n - Thomas Jefferson to Baron von Humboldt, 1813\n\n \"I cannot conceive otherwise than that He, the Infinite Father, expects or\n requires no worship or praise from us, but that He is even infinitely\n above it.\"\n\n - Benjamin Franklin, from \"Articles of Belief and Acts of Religion\",\n Nov. 20, 1728\n\n------------------------------\n\nSubject: The USA is not a Christian nation\n\nTypical posting:\n\nIs it true that George Washington said that the United States is not in any\nsense founded upon the Christian religion?\n\nResponse:\n\nNo. The quotation often given is in fact from Article XI of the 1797 Treaty\nof Tripoli (8 Stat 154, Treaty Series 358):\n\n Article 11\n\n As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense\n founded on the Christian Religion, -- as it has in itself no character of\n enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen, -- and as\n the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility\n against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no\n pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption\n of the harmony existing between the two countries.\n\nThe text may be found in the Congressional Record or in treaty collections\nsuch as Charles Bevans' \"Treaties and Other International Agreements of the\nUnited States of America 1776-1949\", vol. 11 (pp. 1070-1080).\n\nThe English text of the Treaty of Tripoli was approved by the U.S. Senate on\nJune 7, 1797 and ratified by President John Adams on June 10, 1797. It was\nrecently discovered that the Arabic version of the treaty not only lacks the\nquotation, it lacks Article XI altogether.\n\nThe person who translated the Arabic to English was Joel Barlow, Consul\nGeneral at Algiers, a close friend of Thomas Paine -- and an opponent of\nChristianity. It is possible that Barlow made up Article XI, but since there\nis no Arabic version of that article to be found, it's hard to say.\n\nIn 1806 a new Treaty of Tripoli was ratified which no longer contained the\nquotation.\n", "\nAbsolutely not true. Without religion - either an established one or\none you invent for yourself - the theist and atheist are equally\n(not) interested in God, because without religious revelation there\nis _no_ information about God available. Strip away the dogma and\nthe theists/atheists are no different, simply holding a different\nopinion on a matter of little practical importance.\n\n\nSorry, but that doesn't help. What test will you apply to decide\nwhether it is God or Satan with whom you are speaking?\nHow will you know that you have not simply gone insane, or having\ndelusions? You are like a loaded gun.\n\n\nAh, you not as stupid as I assumed. :-)\n\n\nYes. We're all in this together - each human making up a small part of\nthe definition of humanity.", "\nHow about Acts 11: 15-18, 22-23\nor, I John 4:1-8\nwhich says to *try* the spirits to see if they be of God. \n\n\nHow do you know? When have you tried to learn anything about me?\n-- \n\n", "[insert deletion of Paul's and Aaron's discourse on anger, ref Galatians\n5:19-20]\n\nOh, but they definitely can be. Please look at Colossians 3:5-10 and\nEphesians 4:25-27. Emotions can be controlled and God puts very strong\nemphasis on self-control, otherwise, why would he have Paul write to\nTimothy so much about making sure to teach self-control? \n\n[insert deletion of remainder of paragraph]\n\n\nPlease, re-think and re-read for yourself, Joe. Again, the issue is\nself-control especially over feelings and actions, for our actions stem\nfrom our feelings in many instances. As for God giving in to his anger,\nthat comes very soon.\n", "[my stuff about dealing with defferences deleted]\n\n\ni am sorry; i did not mean to. i think i understand how your\nexperiences were much worse than the small bit of ridicule i have had\nto put up with. i guess i didn't really understand before; now i do.\n\n\nwow, pretty conservative church. (please excuse me if this seems like\na ridiculous understatement to you.)\n\n\n(on a side note, that \"under God\" wasn't in there until recently -- i\nbelieve my father, who is in his sixties, remembers saying the pledge\nof allegiance without that in there. i don't know the history behind\nthat though.)\n\nemotional blackmail -- ouch. thank goodness (i'll be neutral in my\nthanks here :) ) i was raised in a completely tolerant household, so\nthat i could make my own decisions!\n\n\nso atheism doesn't have to be taught, but christianity does. i guess\ni can see that, although i can see a child believing in some sort of\ngod without anything other than his/ her own imagination as a basis.\n(sorry, i guess this is sort of minor)\n\n[my query about parallel between lack of choice for homosexuals and\nlack of choice for him as an atheist deleted]\n\nhmm, i wonder why i am a christian then? this isn't a flame, this is\na real wonder. does anyone else have opinions to offer on why you\nbelieve in something that hasn't necessarily been \"proven\" to you?\n\n\nsounds like you are an atheist by nature, then. or is it possible\nthat at least part of it is due to the apparently repressive nature of\nthe christianity of your childhood? if this is getting too personal\nperhaps you should ignore it, or we can take it to email.\n\n\nthis may have been a general remark; you do not sound broken to me,\nbut indeed stronger.\n\n\nyes, i agree with that. i've seen some of the damage repressive\nreligion can do, and as a result i intend to raise my own children as\nmuch as i can to look around before accepting one religious stand\n(atheism is included in this) and to _question everything_ -- this is\nvery important.\n\n\ni can see that.\n", "From time to time I have made reference to a book called \"The Two Babylons\"\nwhich is a book written by Alexander Hislop (mid 1800's) about the Babylonian\nmystery religion and its flight through history. I was unable to put it down\nthe first time I read it, but others have found it dry. It has numberable\nreferences and illustrations. If you are interested in purchasing your own\ncopy, you can call Moody Book Store @ (312)329-4352 and order it for $16.99 and\nthey will ship it to you. \n It is a good book just to get the reference titles for your own digs into the\nmystery religions. I have found it invaluable for that purpose alone. But for\nthose who only want to skim the subject, it comes highly recommended. \n Just a note to my RC brothers and sisters. You may find this to be a\ndiatribe or you may find it to be a test to the origin and true nature of the\norigin of RCism. If you are offended by anything that asks hard questions\nabout your denomination (as to whether or not it is \"Christian\") then perhaps\nyou should just passover this offer. To those who are a little more\nadventurous, go for it and later, please contact me with you reasons pro or con\non the scholorship of this book. I really would be interested.", "The concept of God as a teacher is indeed interesting. Does He grade on\na curve, does He cheat? That is interesting. Not to mention thought\nprovoking. My own concept is that He is a Father and we are His\nchildren. In that He loves us, with a love that we can never understand\nuntil we are with Him. The Bible says that He looks on the heart as the\nfinal measure. From that perspective, in a grading context, the heart is\nthe final test.\nSpecifically, most Christians would agree that there is only one Heaven\nand one Hell. From that perspective, it is Heaven or Hell. You either go\nto one or the other. The \"grading\" on a pass/fail basis is done by God\nthe Father with intervention by Jesus the Son. Not by others. For only\nGod sees the heart. The Bible says of the heart, \"...who can know it.\" I\nwould say there has always been, and always be, an unchanging method.\nThat is what makes a relationship with Christ so secure. In an uncertain\nand ever changing landscape He is always the same. Yesterday, today and\ntomorrow. Concerning whether or not our childhoods are considerd as part\nof the test, my own conviction is no. Were that the case I certainly\nwouldn't be going to Heaven. The Bible speaks very plainly about the\nlove and care Jesus had for and about children. The reality is that we\nare all children. Some of us just have bigger bodies and grey hair. But\nthe Father, our Father is always there. Like most Fathers He wants only\nthe best for His own. There maybe decipline, but there is more love.\nIt's sometimes looks like Christianity is a test, to see who makes it\nand who doesn't. Those who do pass=Heaven, and those who don't go to the\nother place. But it is really much more than that...\nThere are few experts. Most of us are just travelers looking for the\nlight and the way Home. Praying that we can bring others with us.\n", "I'm interested if anyone out here can point me towards a review of the\nfollowing book in any scholarly Christian journal, whether it be\nconservative or liberal, Protestant or Catholic.\n\n_The_Lost_Years_of_Jesus_ (documentary evidence for Jesus' 17 year\njourney to the East), by Elizabeth Clare Prophet. Supposedly this\nis a theory that was refuted in the past, and she has re-examined it.\n\nI thought this was just another novel book, but I saw it listed as\na text for a class in religious studies here. Also, the endorsements seem\nto come from some credible sources, so I'm wondering if scholars have\nreviewed it (or anyone on the net, for that matter).\n", "\nI never advocated not saying what you believe in. I'm advocating second\nthought, and calm. \n\n\"A smart warrior defeats the enemy in ambush on the battlefield\"\n\"A smarter warrior defeats the enemy in open warfare on the battlefield\"\n\"The smartest warrior defeats the enemy without using the battlefield\"\n\nThink about it. \n\n\n\n", "Hello, I am about to embark on a bible study on ACTS. I have online\nbible software with me. I would like to know the the background of the\nauthors of its various topics articles and about the author of the\nPeople's New Testament. I need to know how realible is the articles in\nthe Online Bible software. Specifically (for your convenience) I want to\nknow about the :\n\n\n\t\t1. Darby Translation ( I have never heard of this one)\n\t\t2. Young's Literal Translation (I have also never heard\nof)\n\t\t3. The realiability of the Hebrew/Greek Lexicon\n\t\t4. The authors (from which denomination etc) of the\narticles in the TOPICS modules.\n\t\t5. The realiability of the Treasury of Scripture\nKnowlege ( as I have never heard of too) \n\t\t6. Who are the commentators, Scofield and B.W. Johnson\nwho wrote the Scofield Reference Bible and the People's New Testament respectively \n\t\t7. The realiability of the Strong numbers.\n\nI will be most happy to receive a reply of any of you who knows about\nthe above. Also, please 'qualify' yourself so that I may know that I am\nnot receiving a 'rubbish' letter. I just want to make sure. \n\nWilfred Ling\n\n\t", "\nSo why do I read in the papers that the Qumram texts had \"different\nversions\" of some OT texts. Did I misunderstand?", " excellent question timothy. i hpoe the answers you get will be satisfactory \nas we can not understand the mind of god. but to attempt to answer you \nclearly. GOD of the Bible has given us humans relativly little about how he \nintends to judge mankind. the first test is those who have beleived that Jesus \nChrist is the Son of GOD and that his death and resurrection was sufficent to \nserve justice for all the acts we commit that are wrong in the eyes of god, \nthe bible calls this sin. for those who die before the end of the world/have \nalready died it is more complicated to explain without lapsing in to cliche.\n God must judge people on the baasis of their works in this world. however \nthere is no plus and minus system for GOD. he has declared that he can not \ntolerate spiritual imperfection, thus he can only based your worthiness to \nlive with him on the wrong in your life. \n Good people, yes even Christians are going to constantly sin before GOD, The \nChristian hoever thanks GOD that Christ has given his life for his sin's \npenalty. the proscribed punishment for sin is death, just as the proscribed \npunishment for robbery is time in jail. God then cannot ask for anything but \npunishement for those sins. He does not want to condem. the Bible says in John \n3:17, that God did not send his son in to the word to condem it but that \nthrough him it might be saved.\" when i realize that i have sinned, and i do \nwith painful regularity, i must approach GOD and ask him to not hold thew sin \nagainst me, i have that right and privlige only because of Christ. as for Jews \nthey are promised that they must believe on the Messiah who would come, and \ndis come in Jesus of Nazereth. Muslims, i fear have been given a lie from the \nfater of lies, Satan. They need Christ as do us all.\n for those who don't have that right, in the view of the bible they stand \nolone in their defense. are you going to hell? i can not answer that for you. \ni can only say that perhaps it is eaiser to ask and answer how can i not go to \nHell? that step is much more rewarding.\n\nstan toney stoney@oyster.smcm.edu\nmy opinions are my own, you may borrow them", "\nIt is possible that the individual saw a true prophetic vision, but that he\ninterpreted the scale of time and space according to his material con-\nsciousness, translating the supersensible perceptions of a plane above\nthat of time and space into an immediate worldly context -- and getting it\nwrong. Not that he did it rationally, but rather that unconsciously the\nperceptions became clothed in material images, instead of remaining in the\nrealm of the potential and not-yet-time-space-bound. This difficulty of\ntranslating prophetic vision into a concrete when and where has always been\ndifficult, even for the prophets of old. That is why their prophecies are\nso often subject to multiple interpretations. Likewise, the Apostles seemed\nto feel that the return of the Lord was to be \"very soon\" in the sense of\nperhaps the same generation. Yet the meaning of \"very soon\" has proven to\nbe different than they could grasp. Prophetic vision tends to telescope\ntime, so that things that are far off appear to be very close.\n\nAnother possibility is that the vision was one of a real event preparing to\nhappen, again in the realm of the potential-but-not-yet-manifest and which\nwas thwarted by other forces, including possibly an act of divine mercy.\n\nThere are many concrete prophecies being made these days by devout and\nsincere and sober Christians (and others too). It seems that great coming \nevents are really casting their shadow before their arrival in these \n\"apocalyptic\" times. The various predictions (I'm talking about those that\nappear to be sincere and sober) are hard to accept, yet hard to ignore com-\npletely. One has the feeling \"something is about to start to get ready to \nbegin to commence to happen\". We are living, as the Chinese saying goes,\nin interesting times.\n\nAs for how to discriminate, the Bible doesn't help much. There is an Old\nTestament passage (I forget where it is) that says you will know whether\na prophet is true by whether or not his prophecy comes to pass. That\nhelps eliminate the failures after the fact, but in the case of an earth-\nquake it is small comfort. It seems to me that all prophecies that give\nspecific times and places and events should be suspect, not in that they\nare necessarily false, but in the sense stated above, that all such visions\nare subject to mistranslation from the plane of prophetic vision to the\nplane of earthly time and space.\n\nFor what it is worth, Rudolf Steiner once was asked whether a modern initiate \ncould see into the future and predict coming events. His answer was that \nit would be possible but then he would have to withdraw from active parti-\ncipation in them, including proclaiming what he saw. If this is in fact\na spiritual law, then the answer to your question about how to discriminate\nis that the one who makes such prophecies is probably violating that law,\nknowingly or unknowingly, and as such his message should be considered\na priori to be dubious. I.e. I would expect that those capable of making\ntrue predictions and giving accurate expression to them would not do so in \nthe way that the prophet of the Oregon earthquake did. However, I can\nsympathize with the person who published the prophecy. Given the same\noverwhelming experience that he apparently had, I too might feel impelled, \nand even commissioned by God to tell my fellow human beings about what \nI had seen.\n\nGerry Palo (73237.2006@compuserve.com)\n", "\n\nBut one of the most basic concepts of Christian morality is that we\nall have defective appetites due to original sin. Not just\nhomosexuals, but everybody. Thus we are not entitled to indulge in\nwhatever behavior our bodies want us to.\n\nI think we need to keep clear the distinction between homosexual\n_behavior_ (which is wrong) and homosexual _orientation_ (which is not\na sin, merely a misfortune).\n\n[Please: NO EMAIL REPLIES. Respond in this public forum.]", "\n\nI've seen this verse used to back up this idea:\n\n\"...He has also set eternity in the hearts of men...\" (Ecclesiastes 3:11)", "Larry L. Overacker writes, responding to Simon:\n\n I may be interesting to see some brief selections posted to the\n net. My understanding is that SSPX does not consider ITSELF in\n schism or legitimately excommunicated. But that's really beside\n the point. What does the Roman Catholic church say?\n Excommunication can be real apart from formal excommunication, as\n provided for in canon law.\n\nHere's some of the theology involved for the interested.\n\nThere is confusion over this issue of the SSPX's \"schism\"; often the\nbasic problem is lack of an ability to distinguish between:\n\n- true obedience\n- false obedience\n- disobedience\n- schism\n\nTake the various classifications of obedience first. There are 2\nimportant elements involved here for my purposes:\n\n1) a command\n2) the response made to the command\n\nAs far as the command goes, commands can be LEGITIMATE, such as the\nPope ordering Catholics to not eat meat on Fridays. Or they can be\nILLEGITIMATE, such as the Pope ordering Catholics to worship the god\nDagon when every other full moon comes around.\n\nAs far as the response to a command goes, it can be to REFUSE to do\nwhat is commanded, or to COMPLY.\n\nMaking a table, there are thus 4 possibilites:\n\ncommand response name\n-----------------------------------------------------\nLEGITIMATE COMPLY true obedience\nILLEGITIMATE REFUSE true obedience\nLEGITIMATE REFUSE disobedience\nILLEGITIMATE COMPLY false obedience\n\nSo now you see where my 3 classifications of obedience come from.\n\nObedience is not solely a matter of compliance/refusal. The nature of\nthe commands must also be taken into account; it is not enough to\nconsider someone's compliance or refusal and then say whether they are\n\"obedient\" or \"disobedient\". You also have to take into consideration\nwhether the commands are good or bad.\n\nIn my example, if the Pope commands all Catholics to worship the god\nDagon, and they all refuse, they aren't being disobedient at all!\n\nAs far as the Society of Saint Pius X goes, they are certainly\nrefusing to comply with certain things the Pope desires. But that\nalone is insufficient to allow one to label them \"disobedient\". You\nalso have to consider the nature of the Papal desires.\n\nAnd there's the rub: SSPX says the Popes since Vatican II have been\ncommanding certain very bad things for the Church. The Popes have of\ncourse disagreed.\n\nSo where are we? Are we in another Arian heresy, complete with weak\nPopes? Or are the SSPX priests modern Martin Luthers? Well, the only\nway to answer that is to examine who is saying what, and what the\ntraditional teaching of the Church is.\n\nThe problem here is that very few Catholics have much of an idea of\nwhat is really going on, and what the issues are. The religion of\nAmerican Catholics is especially defective in intellectual depth. You\nwill never read about the issues being discussed in the Catholic press\nin this country. (On the other hand, one Italian Catholic magazine I\nget -- 30 Days -- has had interviews with the Superior General of the\nSociety of Saint Pius X.)\n\nMany Catholics will decide to side with the Pope. There is some\nsoundness in this, because the Papacy is infallible, so eventually\nsome Pope *will* straighten all this out. But, on the other hand,\nthere is also unsoundness in this, in that, in the short term, the\nPopes may indeed be wrong, and such Catholics are doing nothing to\nhelp the situation by obeying them where they're wrong. In fact, if\nthe situation is grave enough, they sin in obeying him. At the very\nleast, they're wasting a great opportunity, because they are failing\nto love Christ in a heroic way at the very time that He needs this\nbadly.\n\nSchism... let's move on to schism. What is it?\n\nSchism is a superset of disobedience (refusal to obey a legitimate\ncommand). All schismatics are disobedient. But it's a superset, so\nit doesn't work the other way around: not all disobeyers are\nschismatics. The mere fact that the SSPX priests don't comply with\nthe Holy Father's desires doesn't make them schismatics.\n\nSo what is it that must be added to disobedience to constitute a\nschism? Maybe this something else makes the SSPX priests schismatics.\n\nYou must add this: the rejection of the right to command. Look in any\ndecent reference on Catholic theology, and that's what you'll find:\nthe distinguishing criterion of schism is rejection of the right to\ncommand.\n\nHere's what the Catholic Encyclopedia says, for example:\n\n ... not every disobedience is a schism; in order to possess this\n character it must include besides the trangression of the commands\n of superiors, denial of their Divine right to command.\n (from the CE article \"Schism\")\n\nIs the Society of Saint Pius X then schismatic? The answer is a clear\nno: they say that the Pope is their boss. They pray for him every\nday. And that's all that matters as far as schism goes.\n\nWhat all this boils down to is this: if we leave aside the\nconsideration of the exact nature of their objections, their position\nis a legitimate one, as far as the Catholic theology of obedience and\nschism goes. They are resisting certain Papal policies because they\nthink that they are clearly contrary to the traditional teaching of\nthe Papacy, and the best interests of the Church. (In fact, someone\nwho finds himself in this situation has a *duty* to resist.)\n\nNow, what is the stance of Rome on all this? Well, if you read the\nHoly Father's motu proprio \"Ecclesia Dei\", you can find out. It's the\ndefinitive document on the subject. A motu proprio is a specifically\nPapal act. It's not the product of a Roman congregation, a letter\nthat the Pope has possibly never even read. It's from the Pope\nhimself. His boss is God... there's no one else to complain to.\n\nIn this document, the Holy Father says, among other things:\n\n1) The episcopal consecrations performed by Archbishop Lefebvre\nconstituted a schismatic act.\n\n2) Archbishop Lefebvre's problem was a misunderstanding of the nature\nof Tradtion.\n\nBoth are confusing: I fail to see the logic of the Pope's points.\n\nAs far as the episcopal consecrations go, I read an interesting\narticle in a translation of the Italian magazine \"Si Si No No\". It\nall gets back to the question of jurisdiction. If episcopal\nconsecrations imply rejection of the Pope's jurisdiction, then they\nwould truly constitute a schismatic act, justifying excommunication\nunder the current code of canon law. But my problem with this is\nthis: according to the traditional theology of Holy Orders, episcopal\nconsecration does not confer jurisdiction. It only confers the power\nof Order: the ability to confect the Sacraments. Jurisdiction must be\nconferred by someone else with the power to confer it (such as the\nPope). The Society bishops, knowing the traditional theology quite\nwell, take great pains to avoid any pretence of jurisdiction over\nanyone. They simply confer those Sacraments that require a bishop.\n\nThe \"Si Si No No\" article was interesting in that it posited that the\nreason that the Pope said what he did is that he has a novel,\npost-Vatican II idea of Holy Orders. According to this idea,\nepiscopal consecration *does* confer jurisdiction. I lent the article\nto a friend, unfortunately, so can't tell you more. I believe they\nquoted the new code of canon law in support of this idea.\n\nThe Pope's thinking on this point remains a great puzzle to me.\nThere's no way there is a schism, according to traditional Catholic\ntheology. So why does the Pope think this?\n\nAs far as the points regarding the nature of Tradition goes, here's\nthe passage in question:\n\n The root of this schismatic act can be discerned in an incomplete\n and contradictory notion of Tradtion. Incomplete, because it does\n not take sufficiently into the account the living character of\n Tradition, which, as the Second Vatican Council clearly taught,\n\n comes from the apostles and progresses in the Church with the\n help of the Holy Spirit. There is a growth in insight into\n the realities and words that are being passed on. This comes\n about in various ways. It comes through the contemplation and\n study of believers who ponder these things in their hearts.\n It comes from the intimate sense of spiritual realities which\n they experience. And it comes from the preaching of those who\n have received, along with their right of succession in the\n espiscopate, the sure charism of truth.\n\n But especially contradictory is a notion of Tradition which\n opposes the universal Magisterium of the Church possessed by the\n Bishop of Rome and the body of bishops. It is impossible to\n remain faithful to the Tradition while breaking the ecclesial bond\n with him to whom, in the person of the Apostle Peter, Christ\n himself entrusted the ministry of unity in His Church.\n\n (Papal motu proprio \"Ecclesia Dei\", 2 July 1988)\n\nIt seems to me that the Holy Father is making two points here that can\nbe simplified to the following:\n\n- Vatican Council II has happened.\n- I am the Pope.\n\nThe argument being that either case is sufficient to prove that\nArchbishop Lefebvre must be wrong, because he disagrees with them.\nThis is weak, to say the least!\n\nIt would have helped clarify things more if the Pope had addressed\nArchbishop Lefebvre's concerns in detail. What is John Paul II's\nstand on the social Kingship of Christ, as taught by Gregory XVI, Pius\nIX, Leo XIII, Pius XI and Pius XII, for example? Are we supposed to\nignore what all these Popes said on the subject?\n\nI don't know what the future will hold, but the powers that be in the\nSSPX are still talking with Rome and trying to straighten things out.\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------\n\n[Many people would prefer to call a justified refusal to obey\n\"justified disobedience\" or even \"obeying God rather than man\".\nCalling a refusal to obey obedience puts us into a sort of Alice in\nWonderland world where words mean whatever we want them to mean.\n\nSimilarly, schism indicates a formal break in the church. If the Pope\nsays that a schism exists, it seems to me that by definition it\nexists. It may be that the Pope is on the wrong side of the break,\nthat there is no good reason for the break to exist, and that it will\nshortly be healed. But how can one deny that it does in fact exist?\n\nIt seems to me that you are in grave danger of destroying the thing\nyou are trying to reform: the power of the papacy. What good will it\ndo you if you become reconciled to the the Pope in the future, but in\nthe process, you have destroyed his ability to use the tools of church\ndiscipline? It's one thing to hold that the Pope has misused his\npowers, and excommunicated someone wrongly. It's something else to\nsay that his excommunication did not take effect, and the schism is\nall in his imagination. That means that acts of church discipline are\nnot legal tools, but acts whose validity is open to debate. Generally\nit has been liberal Catholics who have had problems with the Pope.\nWhile they have often objected to church sanctions, generally they\nhave admitted that the sanctions exist. You are now opening the door\nto people simply ignoring papal decisions, claiming to be truly\nobeying by disobeying, and to be in communion while excommunicated.\nThis would seem to be precisely the denial of Divine right to command\nthat you say defines schism.", "[reply to tgk@cs.toronto.edu (Todd Kelley)]\n \n \n \nAgreed.\n \n \nIt is hard for me to understand, but quite a few professional scientists\nand philosophers are theists.\n \n \nBut also intolerance and superstition. I'm not sure that in the balance\nit is not detrimental.\n \n \nSure would!", "-= PASTORTALK =-\n\n A weekly dialogue with a local pastor on the news of the day\n\n by Carl (Gene) Wilkes \n\n Startext: MC344578 \n CompuServe: 70423,600\n Internet: 70423.600@compuserve.com\n\n -= THIS WEEK'S THOUGHTS =-\n\nLast week the Supreme Court refused without comment to hear an\nappeal by Rensselaer, IN, school officials desiring the\ndistribution of Bibles in their public schools (REL65, 5/21). A\nlower court had banned the local Gideons, an international Bible-\ndistribution group, from passing out Bibles to fifth-graders. The\nACLU's Barry Lynn was quoted as saying that the court's action\nprotected the \"religious neutrality of our public schools.\" He also\nsaid that schools must serve students of \"all faiths and none.\"\nSchools were not to be a \"bazaar where rival religious groups\ncompete for converts,\" according to Lynn.\n\nSeveral Gideons, men who are responsible for putting Bibles in\nhospitals and hotels, are members of our church. They tell of\nsimilar stories where they are only allowed to distribute Bibles on\nsidewalks around the schools, but cannot go inside the schools.\nThey tell of mild harassment by parents who do not want their\nchildren receiving a Bible from a stranger. They are willing to\ncontinue their work at a distance, but find the school's position\nsomewhat disheartening.\n\nI understand rationally and logically the court's position. And, I\ncan see the sense of fairness for all groups. But, on the other\nhand, when does \"neutrality\" become \"nihilism?\" When does plurality\nturn into no position at all?\n\nI see a couple of ironies here. One is that we can pass out condoms\nbut not Bibles in our schools. Think on that one for a moment.\n\nThe other is that while we are seeking \"religious neutrality\" in\nour schools, countries like Russia--who, by the way, practiced\n\"religious neutrality\" for the past seventy years--are making the \nBible part of their public school curriculum. When I was in St.\nPetersburg in March, the church we worked with had trained over 100\npublic school teachers to teach the Bible, and the government had\nrequested hundreds more! I recently heard a medical doctor who is\npresident of the Gideon chapter in Moscow tell how they are eagerly\ninvited to the University of Moscow to distribute Bibles to the\nstudents and are given class time to explain its contents. I\nremember seeing a photograph of this doctor holding a Bible and\nspeaking to the university students standing under a statue of\nLenin. Now, that's ironic!\n\nI admit two things: 1) We are a pluralistic society, and all faiths\nhave equal footing. This is what our country was founded on. 2) To\nallow every group on school grounds could create a bazaar-like\natmosphere. Each city must work to be inclusive of all religions\nand provide a hearing for them. 3)--I know I said two--The vitality\nof religious faith is not dependent upon whether or not the public\narena acknowledges it as valid.\n\nHowever--and you knew this was coming--I believe, disallowing the\ndistribution of the Bible by law-abiding, caring adults in our\nschools only signals once again our culture's movement away from a\nsingular base from which we as individuals and as a nation can make\nmoral and ethical decisions.\n\nWhat do you think? \n\n -= MAIL BOX =-\n(Let me know if you do not want me to print your letter or your\nname.)\n\nGood column [re: TIME coverstory about teen sexuality]; I agree\nwith moral education from home, but some homes don't have the kinds\nof morals I want taught. One family I worked with smoked dope as\ntheir primary family activity. Another acted like incest was OK.\nFamilies, no matter where they are, are often a lot sicker than\nwe'd like to believe.\n\nFrom: John Hightower, MC 407602\n\nJohn,\n\nI agree that the \"home\" ain't what it used to be, and some homes\nare NOT the place to learn value-based sexuality. I still believe\nthat this is where the church can come into play. I know, those\nfamilies you speak of may not come to a church to seek information,\nbut the help does not need to be in a church building...I believe\nthat the youth from the families you mentioned will probably\ndisregard the value-free information at school, too.", "\nI have no doubt that God hears everybody's prayers.\nHowever, He does things His way, i.e. things will happen\nonly if it is His will.\n\nNow if the question really is \"Does God grant everybody's wishes ?\"\nthen you'll get a brutal shot of reality similar to when you didn't\nget that toy you wanted for Christmas. You just cannot expect\nto get everything you want in this world.\n\n-- ", "Brian Ceccarelli presents us with the fallacy of False Dichotomy in stating\nthat we must accept every thing in the books attributed to Peter, or we must\ndiscount every other book of antiquity:\n\n\nMr Ceccarelli, you seem to be stating that we must accept accept everything\nwritten in every \"historical\" document. Somehow I doubt do that yourself\nthat. Thus since I doubt you accept everything written in every historical\ndocument, I would ask how you can thereby objectively justify complete faith\nin the words of the books attributed to Peter. \n\nI shall now give an example of a document from antiquity, which I am sure you\nreject; it dates from the time of Ramses II (This was first presented here by\nMatthew Wiener). These inscriptions were carved soon after a battle, and were\ncarved with the Pharoah's specific approval so we have true originals, rather\nthan mere copies. This account records the the battle of Kadesh (circa 1285\nBC), which occurred on the river Orontes, (about 100 miles south of Aleppo). \nThe Egyptians won this battle with the Hittites, and Ramses had his victory\ninscribed all over the place. A few of of these inscriptions have survived in\nnear perfect form. It is a record of how the Pharoah pretty much\nsingle-handedly defeated the Hittites, after being separated from his troops. \n\nNote that the Egyptian wavers back and forth between first and third person. \nThe following is from Miriam Lichtheim`s _Ancient Egyptian Literature_ volume\nII.\n\n\tMy majesty caused the forces of the foes from Hitti to fall\n\ton their faces, one upon the other, as crocodiles fall, into\n\tthe water of the Orontes. I was after them like a griffin;\n\tI attacked all the countries, I alone. For my infantry and\n\tmy chariotry had deserted me; not one of them stood looking\n\tback. As I live, as Ra loves me, as my father Atum favors\n\tme, everything that my majesty has told I did it in truth,\n\tin the presence of my infantry and my chariotry.\n\n(Note: This paragraph records not only Ramses \"divine word,\" but also that\nthere were thousands of witnesses to the event. Now from the heart of \nbattle.)\n\n\tThen his majesty drove at a gallop and charged the forces\n\tof the Foe from Hitti, being alone by himself, none other\n\twith him. His majesty proceeded to look about him and\n\tfound 2500 chariots ringing him on his way out ...\n\n\tNo officer was with me, no charioteer,\n\tNo soldier of the army, no shield-bearer;\n\tMy infantry, my chariotry yielded before them,\n\tNot one of them stood firm to fight with them.\n\tHis majesty spoke: \"What is this, father Amun?\n\tIs it right for a father to ignore his son?\n\tAre my deeds a matter for you to ignore?\n\tDo I not walk and stand at your word?\n\tI have not neglected an order you gave.\n\tToo great is he, the great lord of Egypt,\n\tTo allow aliens to step on his path!\n\tWhat are these Asiatics to you, O Amun,\n\tThe wretches ignorant of god?\n\tHave I not made for you many great monuments,\n\t...\n\tI call to you, my father Amun,\n\tI am among a host of strangers;\n\tAll countries are arrayed against me,\n\tI am alone, there's none with me!\n\t...\n\tThe labors of many people are nothing,\n\tAmun is more helpful than they;\n\tI came here by the command of your mouth,\n\tO Amun, I have not transgressed your command!\"\n\n\tNow though I prayed in a distant land,\n\tMy voice resounded in Southern Thebes.\n\tI found Amun came when I called to him,\n\tHe gave me his hand and I rejoiced.\n\tHe called from behind as if near by:\n\t\"Forward, I am with you,\n\tI your father, my hand is with you,\n\tI prevail over a hundred thousand men,\n\tI am lord of victory, lover of valor!\"\n\tI found my heart stout, my breast in joy,\n\tAll I did succeeded, I was like Mont.\n\t...\n\tI slaughtered among them at my will,\n\tNot one looked behind him,\n\tNot one turned around,\n\tWhoever fell down did not rise.\n\t...\n\tOne called out to the other saying:\n\t\"No man is he who is among us,\n\tIt is Seth great-of-strength, Baal in person;\n\tNot deeds of man are these his doings,\n\tThey are of one who is unique,\n\tWho fights a hundred thousand without soldiers and chariots,\n\tCome quick, flee before him,\n\tTo seek life and breathe air;\n\tFor he who attempts to get close to him,\n\tHis hands, all his limbs grow limp.\n\tOne cannot hold either bow or spears,\n\tWhen one sees him come racing along!\"\n\tMy majesty hunted them like a griffin,\n\tI slaughtered among them unceasingly.\n\nSo you see Brian, we have a few original manuscripts recording the miraculous \nbattle between the Ramses and the Hittites. Do you reject them as being\n*completely* true? I suspect you do, and if so, then do you also, in your own\nwords: \n\n \"question the existence of Alexander the Great, Tilgrath Pilisar III,\n Nero, Caligula, Josephus, Cyrus the Great, Artexerxes?\"\n\nDo you also thereby question all their documents? That`s the problem with your\n\"all or nothing\" approach. Many ancient people used to mix a bit of fancy\nwith their facts. So for you to say that we must either accept all of Peter\n(and the rest of the New Testament) or accept no records of antiquity at all,\nforces you thereby, to accept the verity of documents you probably do not find\ncompletely credible. \n\nAs to your other argument that so many people have testified to Jesus, that he\nmust be true:\n\n \nI have three points. \n\nFirst, this is \"argumentum ad populum\" (ie: appeal to popular opinion); you\ncannot vote on truth. For instance, do the millions of Hindu's past and\npresent who testify to the reality of Brahma, constitute actual evidence for\nthe existence of Brahma? How would you answer your own question in regards to\nthe testimony of Hindus:\n\n\t\"With a scoff of your keyboard, with near complete ignorance of \n\t the testimonies, are you going to say that that is all complete \n\t hooey?\"\n\nIf you do so \"scoff,\" then how do you objectively justify your own special\npleading?\n\nSecond, it is not at all clear that King Solomon or King David testified to\nJesus. You can claim it to be clear, but that does not make it true. \n\nThird, it is quite arguable that Abraham Lincoln was not Christian, and that\nhe had both a public and a private view of Christianity. In fact there was\nmuch discussion about it in his day (yes, he was publically accused of being a\ndeist. Oh my). I am presently collecting a FAQ for Lincoln as I've\npreviously done for Tyre, Jefferson and etc. \n \n\t\t\t\tLater,\n\n\t\t\t\tDave Butler", " \n: [ The discussion begins: why does the universe exist at all? ]\n \n: One of the Laws of Nature, specifying cause and effect seems to dictate \n: (at least to this layman's mind) there must be a causal event. No\n: reasonable alternative exists.\n\nI would argue that causality is actually a property of spacetime; \ncauses precede their effects. But if you claim that there must be\nan answer to \"how\" did the universe (our spacetime) emerge from \n\"nothing\", science has some good candidates for an answer.\n\nI have always wondered why Christians use the \"There are questions\nscience (or atheism) cannot answer\" argument; I hope this is the\nappropriate group to ask this question.\n\nThe most popular question is the question of origins. Why does the\nuniverse exist, or anything, for that matter?\n\nI think this question should actually be split into two parts, namely\n\n1) Why is there existence? Why anything exists?\n\nand\n\n2) How did the universe emerge from nothing?\n\nIt is clear science has nothing to say about the first question. However,\nis it a meaningful question, after all?\n\nI would say it isn't. Consider the following:\n\nA die-hard skeptic being (be it human or whatever) attempts to doubt\none's very existence. Since it is so easy to doubt everything else -\nI cannot be _sure_ the world exists, it may be my mind fooling me -\ncan I ever be sure I exist?\n\nHowever, it is only possible to exist or not to exist. (Someone\ninsert an appropriate Shakespeare quote here ;-) )\n\nA being that does not exist cannot doubt one's existence.\nA being that does exist can doubt one's existence, but this would be\npointless - the being would exist anyway.\n\nLet us return to the original question: why? A being that does not\nexist does not need any reasons for its non-existence. This being\nis not _sure_ whether anything else exists but his mind, but let\nus assume that the world exists independent of the mind (the objectivity\npostulate). The question \"why anything exists\" can be countered by\ndemanding answer to a question \"why there is nothing in nothingness,\nor in non-existence\". Actually, both questions turn out to be\ndevoid of meaning. Things that exist do, and things that don't exist\ndon't exist. Tautology at its best.\n\nI seriously doubt God could have an answer to this question.\n\nSome Christians I have talked to have said that actually, God is\nHimself the existence. However, I see several problems with this\nanswer. First, it inevitably leads to the conclusion that God is\nactually _all_ existence, good and evil, devils and angels, us and\nthem. This is pantheism, not Christianity.\n\nAnother answer is that God is the _source_ of all existence.\nThis sounds much better, but I am tempted to ask: Does God\nHimself exist, then? If God is the source of His own existence,\nit can only mean that He has, in terms of human time, always\nexisted. But this is not the same as the source of all existence.\nThis argument sounds like God does not exist, but meta-exists,\nand from His meta-existent perspective, He created existence.\nI think this is actually a nonsolution, a mere twist of words.\n\nThe best answer I have heard is that human reasoning is incapable\nof understanding such questions. Being an atheist myself, I do not\naccept such answers, since I do not have any other methods.\n\nThe second question: How did the universe emerge from nothing?\nbelongs to the domain of science, and I, for one, do not doubt the\nquestion can be answered by its methods. Many cosmologists have\nsuggested that it is entirely possible for universes to emerge\nfrom vacuum (this possibility has been suggested in a recent\nHawking biography; see also Lizhi & Shuxian: Creation of the Universe,\nWorld Scientific, 1989). However, I think the sci groups are more\nappropriate for discussions like this.\n \n: As far as I can tell, the very laws of nature demand a \"why\". That isn't\n: true of something outside of nature (i.e., *super*natural).\n\nThis is not true. Science is a collection of models telling us \"how\",\nnot why, something happens. I cannot see any good reason why the \"why\"\nquestions would be bound only to natural things, assuming that the\nsupernatural domain exists. If supernatural beings exist, it is\nas appropriate to ask why they do so as it is to ask why we exist.\n \n: I believe the \"genetic code\" will be entirely deciphered in our lifetimes,\n: but we will not see man convert entirely inert material into self sustaining, \n: reproducing life, *ever*. (I've never been much of a prophet, though. I\n: can't even *picture* New York in my mind 8^] ). I don't believe *any*\n: technology would be able to produce that necessary *spark* of life, despite\n: having all of the parts available. Just my opinion.\n\nThis opinion is also called vitalism; namely, that living systems are\nsomehow _fundamentally_ different from inanimate systems. Do Christians\nin general adopt this position? What would happen when scientists announce\nthey have created primitive life (say, small bacteria) in a lab?\n\nThere is a problem with your prophecy: artificial life has been created,\nalthough not yet in a chemical form. Computer simulations of evolution\ncontain systems that are as much alive as any bacterium, although\ntheir code is electronic, as well as their metabolism. See a recent book\n\nSteven Levy: Artificial life - The Quest for a New Creation. Jonathan\nCape, London 1992.\n\nArtificial chemical life is just around the corner - after all, no \nspark of life has been found to be necessary; living systems do not\nviolate any physical laws as we know them. \n\n: You don't mind if a few of us send up a prayer on your behalf during your\n: research, do you? After all, if we of Christ are deluding ourselves, you\n: really have nothing to worry about, eh?\n\nExactly. This is why I think atheists should _not_ post any evangelical\natheist arguments to soc.religion groups, since people who seek to \nfind peace in religions must be allowed to gather together. I would\nnormally have asked these questions in alt.atheism or talk.religion.misc,\nbut it seems many Christians do not read these groups. \n\nPetri\n", "\n\nSo do other parts of the Bible when taken literally - i.e. the Psalms\nsaying the Earth does not move, or the implication the Earth is flat\nwith four corners, etc. The Bible was written to teach salvation, not\nhistory or science.\n\n\nWhat ones? Paryers for the dead or the intercession of saints? (Which\nare taught in 2 Maccabees, Sirach, and Tobit)\n\n\nBy your own subjective judgement. This falling short is your judgement,\nand you are not infallible - rather the Church of Jesus Christ is (see 1\nTimothy 3.15).\n\n\nMore subjective feelings. This is not a proof of anything more than\none persons feelings.\n\n\nAs I have written time and again, the Hebrew canon was fixed in Jamnia,\nPalestine, in 90 AD. 60 years after the foundation of the one, holy,\ncatholic, and apostolic Church. Furthermore, the opinons of Jerome do\nnot count. He was neither the Church, or the Pope, or an ecumenical\ncouncil, or a council in general, or an insturment of the Magisterium of\nthe Church. He was a private individual, learned admittedly, but\nsubject to erro of opinion. And in exlcuding the deuterocanon, he\nerred, as Pope Damsus, and the Council of Carthage, and the tradition of\nthe Fathers, clearly shows, as I pointed out in my previous post.\n\n\nI suggest you take heed of the last part of the statement, if you want\nto take it in the sense you are taking it, that taking away from the\nbook will cause you to lose heaven.\n\n\nThe order of the Canon is unimportant, it is the content that matters. \nNone of Jesus' statments exlcude the deuterocanon, which were\ninterspersed throughout the canon. And remeber, there are some\ncompletely undisputed books, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Ecclesiatses, Song\nof Songs, Job, etc. that are not quoted in the New Testament, which is\nnot taken as prejudicial to their being inspired.", "\nYou are quite confident that essences do not exist. How do propose to\ndefine beings? Can a thing can be *one* without definition? Can a being\nhave a definition and know essence?\n\nWhat about properties? Do beings have properties? Does God have\nproperties?\n\nDoes numbers exist in reality as abstract entities or do we invent them?\n\n\nSee my post in alt.messianic about the possibilities of tri-theism from a\nphiolosophical point of view.", "RAPTURE - OCTOBER 28, 1992\n\n\t\tWHAT TO DO IN CASE YOU MISS THE RAPTURE\n\nI. STAY CALM AND DO NOT PANIC\n\n\tYour natural reaction once you realize what has just occurred is to\npanic. But to do so is absolutely useless now. If you had wanted to get right\nwith God before the rapture, you could have, but you chose to wait. Now your \nonly chance is to stay on this earth and to endure to the end of the \nTribulation. \"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be \nsaved.\" - Matthew 24:13\n\nII. REALIZE YOU ARE NOW LIVING DURING THE GREAT TRIBULATION\n\n\tThe Great Tribulation is a seven year period starting from the time of\nthe rapture until Christ's second coming. Also know as \"the time of Jacob's\n(Israel's) trouble\" (Jere 30:7) and \"Daniel's Seventieth Week\" (Dan 9), this \nperiod will be unparalleled in trouble and horror.\n\nIII. GATHER AS MANY BIBLES AS YOU CAN AND HIDE THEM\n\n\tSoon after the Antichrist becomes the leader of the European Community \n(the revived Roman Empire), Bibles will be confiscated and owning a Bible will\nbe tantamount to treason. The Bible, however, will be your most valuable \npossession during the Tribulation.\n\nIV. READ THE BIBLE LIKE YOU HAVE NEVER READ IT BEFORE IN YOUR LIFE\n\n\tSince all of your Bibles may be confiscated, even if you are careful, it\nis imperative that you read the Word until you memorize whole passages and can\nquote them. It is especially important to read Daniel, Luke 21, Matthew 24, \nRevelation, and Amos, for these books describe the events you can expect to\nunfold before you. \n\nV. PRAY LIKE YOU HAVE NEVER PRAYED BEFORE IN YOUR LIFE\n\n\tPray until the power of God comes strongly upon you - pray and pray \nand pray. Only by reading the Word and praying will you gain the spiritual \nstrength to be able to withstand the torture you may have to endure for the\nsake of Christ. \n\nVI. DO NOT TAKE THE MARK AT ANY COST - EVEN IN FIT MEANS YOU AND YOUR LOVED\nONES DIE AS MARTYRS\n\n\tAfter the Antichrist becomes the leader of the European Community, he\nwill institute a world economic system, designed so that you cannot buy, sell,\nor eat unless you take his mark or the number of his name. Money will be\nuseless. \"And he causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and \nslave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that\nno one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, \nor the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding\ncalculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number\nis 666\" - Revelation 13:16-18. \n\tThe Antichrist will implement the greatest slaughter in all of \nhumanity. Think of the various ways people have been tortured and killed\nin the past, such as the Holocaust.\n[or maybe the crusades? -M]\nYou cannot even imagine the horror that will take place under the Antichrist's\nrule; it will be much worse than anything in history (Matt 24:21) \"...I saw\nunder the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and\nfor the testimony which they held. And a white robe was given to each of \nthem: and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, \nuntil both the number of the fellow servants and their brethren, who would be\nkilled as they were, was completed.\" Revelation 6:9, 11.\n\tHis targets will be Jews and Christians who do not worship his image\nor take the mark on their forehead or right hadn/ \"...And I saw the souls of \nthose who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of \nGod, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark\non their foreheads or on the hands.\" - Revelation 20:4. He will use every\nform of torture and humiliation in order to force you to renounce Christ. Nor\nwill he hesitate to use your loved ones against you, even your children, \ntorturing and killing them in front of you so that you will be tempted to take\nthe mark. \n\tIf you take the mark or worship the Antichrist or his image, however,\nyou will be consigned to the second death, which is the Lake of Fire.\n[Sung about so eloquently by Johnny Cash...-M]\nYou cannot be redeemed. It is better to endure torture for a short while and\ngain eternal life then [sic] to endure eternal torment in the Ring^H^H^H^H Lake\nof Fire. \"...If anyone worships the Beast and his image, and receives his \nmark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink the wine of\nthe wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His \nindignation. An [sic] he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the \npresence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.\" -Revelation \n14:9-10 \n\n[and probably in the presence of season-ticket holders; special hats given to\nthe first 5,000 at the stadium --M] \n\nVII. SET A PLAN IN MOTION FOR SURVIVAL\n\n\tAlthough you may not be able to hide from the Antichrist's government\nuntil the end of the Tribulation, all of the time you gain in hiding is \nimportant for your spiritual growth and strengthening, since only those who are\nextremely strong in Christ can suffer and die for His sake.\n\tThe first thing to do is move out of the city and into a rural or\nmountainous area, for the Antichrist's control will come last to the least\npopulated areas. Take a good radio or TV with you so that you can stay \nattuned to events and discern the time schedule of the Tribulation.\n[\"As you can see on the weather map, heavy currents of Tribulation will sweep\ninto our area by daybreak. Expect delays on I-95 outbound, and perhaps school\nclosings\" --M] \nStore water and food, because you will not be able to purchase anything without\nthe mark. Water in lakes and streams will be polluted by radioactive waste\nfrom nuclear warfare and will eventually turn into blood.\n[Get a good water filter. --M]\nBring different types of clothing for all seasons, as well as flashlights,\nbatteries, generators, and First Aid supplies. In short, learn how to \nsurvive and live off the land as the pioneers did.\n\nVIII. TRUST NO ONE\n\t\n\tThere will be secret agents everywhere, spying for the Antichrist's\ngovernment. Be on the lookout.\n[Perot supporters take note --M]\n\nIX. WATCH FOR THE ANTICHRIST\n\n\tIt is important to realize who the Antichrist is and what he is up to,\nfor he will deceive many into thinking that he is a great world leader who will\nbring peace and prosperity to a world hungry for it. We can infer from Daniel \n11 certain characteristics of this man. Popular during the first three and a\nhalf years of the Tribulation, he will dominate the airwaves. He will be \nphysically appealing, highly intelligent, with Christ-like charisma and \npersonality. An international politician, military tactician and economic\nexpert, his word will be peace; he will make a treaty with the Jews, which\nhe will break after three and a half years. He will have such supernatural \npower that a mortal wound to his head will be healed. Even the very elect will\nbe deceived. If you do not pray and read the Bible, you too will be deceived.\n[Dominate the airwaves? Perhaps Howard Stern or Rush Limbaugh...-M]\n\tThe antichrist will have a companion, the False Prohphet [sic], who\nwill make an image in the likeness of the Antichrist and cause it to speak. \nAll who refuse to worhsip [sic] the image will be killed. The final three and\na half years will be absolutely insane, with demonized spirits everywhere.\n\nX. DO NOT GIVE UP HOPE!\n\n\tThe seven years of Tribulation will end with the triumphant return of\nChrist. The Antichrist will be defeated. Be steadfast and endure, and you \nwill be rewarded greatly in Heaven. \n\tStart reading the Bible and praying fervently now. The salvation of \nyour sould depends upon it. Determine that, come what may, you will not take\nthe mark or worship the Antichrist. You still have a chance to be saved or\nremain saved, but this time you will have to be \"faithful unto death.\"\n\n\tMay God find you ready in the hour of his glorious return!\n\n******************************************************************************\nMike Cluff\t\t\t\t* \"Christianity is Stupid.\nv22964qs@ubvms or mike%luick@ubvms\t* Give up.\" -Negativland\nUB Language Perception Laboratory\t* \n******************************************************************************\n\n\n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ \n\nBob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM \n\nThey said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,\nand sank Manhattan out at sea.", "\nFrom _Free Inquiry_, Winter 83/84, the following is an\nintroduction to the article \"Joseph Smith and the Book of\nMormon\", by George D. Smith. The introduction is written by\nPaul Kurtz. \n\n\tMormonism -- the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints\n\t-- claims a worldwide membership 5.2 million. It is one of\n\tthe world's fastest growing religions, with as many as\n\t200,000 new converst in 1982 alone. Because of the church's\n\taggressive missionary program, covering more than one\n\thundred countries, it is spreading even to third world\n\tcountries.\n\t\n\tMormonism is both puritanical in moral outlook and\n\tevangelical in preachment. The church is run along strict\n\tauthoritarian lines. Led by a president, who allegedly\n\treceives revelations directly form God, and a group of\n\ttwelve apostles who attempt to maintain orthodoxy in belief\n\tand practice, the church is opposed to abortion,\n\tpornography, sexual freedom, women's rights, and other, in\n\tits view, immoral influences of secular society, and it\n\tforbids the use of tobacco, alcohol, coffee, and tea.\n\t\n\tCentered in Salt Lake City, the church is extremely wealthy\n\tand politically powerful in Utal and many other western\n\tstates. Among well-know present-day Mormons are Ezra Taft\n\tBenson (former secretary of agriculture), the Osmond family,\n\tthe Mariotts of the hotel empire, and a score of high-placed\n\tgovernment officials.\n\t\n\tThe Mormon church was founded in western New York in 1830 by\n\tJoseph Smith who claimed that by divine revelation be had\n\tfound gold plates containing hieroglyphics buried on a hill\n\tand that with the help of visits from the angel Moroni he\n\thad been able to translate the writing into the _Book of\n\tMormon_, the basis of Mormon belief. This book, written \"by\n\tthe commandment of God,\" claims that the ancient Hebrews\n\tsettled in America about 600 B.C.E. and were the ancestors\n\tof the American Indians. Mormons believe that those who\n\thave been baptized in the \"true church\" will be reunited\n\tafter death and that deceased non-Mormon family members can\n\tbe baptized by proxy and thus join their relatives in the\n\thereafter. Because of these beliefs, Mormons have been\n\tconsidered outcasts by mainline Christian denominations and\n\tas heretics by religious fundamentalists.\n\t\n\tJoseph Smith was a controversial figure in his day -- he was\n\tboth worshiped as a saint and denounced as a fraud. Because\n\tof persecution he led his band of loyal followers from\n\tPalmyra, New York, westward to Ohio and then to Illinois,\n\twhere in 1844 he was shot to death by an agry mob. Brigham\n\tYoung, who reportedly had as many as eighty wives, took over\n\tthe leadership of the church and led the Mormons further\n\twestward, to found the new Zion in Salt Lake City. \n\tFollowing the teachings of Joseph Smith in the practice of\n\tpolygamy was perhaps the Mormons most controversial practice\n\tin nineteenth-century America.\n\t\n\tWhile other religions go back many centuries --\n\tMuhammadanism, 1200 years; Christianity, 2000; and Judaism,\n\t3000 -- and attempts to examine their beginnings are\n\tdifficult, extensive historical investigation of Mormon\n\troots is possible. Some Mormons are willing to examine this\n\thistory objectively, bu others maintain that such scrutiny\n\tis dangerous to the faith.\n\t\n\tIn the following pages, _Free Inquiry_ presents two articles\n\tabout the Mormon church. First, George D. Smith, a lifelong\n\tmember of the church, provides a detailed critical\n\texamination of Joseph Smith and his claim the the _Book of\n\tMormon_ was divinely revealed. Second, we present a portion\n\tof an interview with philosopher Sterling McMurrin, also a\n\tMormon since birth, who questions the treatment of the\n\thistory of the church by Mormon authorities. -- Paul Kurtz\n\t\n\nThe article itself is super.", "\n\nWell, this is alt.atheism. I hope you arent here to try to convert anyone.\n\n\nMany would disagree.\n\n[...]\n\nWell, you shouldn't give any particular book too much weight. Actually,\nI don't think that any of these statements is correct. It is more likely\nthat most of Jesus' fame was attributed to him after his death by those\nwho had some strong motives...\n\n[...]\n\nWhat's a prophecy, and what's so significant about them?\n\n\nI think we understand.\n\n\nWell, sell your computer and donate you life to your religion now...\nDon't waste any time.", ": After reading the posts on this newsgroup for the pasts 4 months, it \n: has become apparent to me that this group is primarily active with \n: Liberals, Catholics, New Agers', and Athiests. Someone might think \n: to change the name to: soc.religion.any - or - perhaps even\n: soc.religion.new. It might seem to be more appropriate.\n: Heck, don't flame me, I'm Catholic, gay, and I voted \n: for Bill Clinton. I'm on your side! \n\nSince when did conservative, protestant, old-time religion believers get\nan exclusive francise to christianity? Christianity is, and always has\nbeen, a diverse and contentious tradition, and this group reflects that\ndiversity. I, fo one, am not ready to concede to _any_ group- be they\n\"liberal\" or \"conservative\", catholic, protestant, or orthodox, charismatic\nor not- the right to claim that they have _the truth_, and everyone else\nis not \"christian.\"", "I have stated before that I do not consider myself an atheist, but \ndefinitely do not believe in the christian god. The recent discussion\nabout atheists and hell, combined with a post to another group (to the\neffect of 'you will all go to hell') has me interested in the consensus \nas to how a god might judge men. As a catholic, I was told that a jew,\nbuddhist, etc. might go to heaven, but obviously some people do not\nbelieve this. Even more see atheists and pagans (I assume I would be \nlumped into this category) to be hellbound. I know you believe only\ngod can judge, and I do not ask you to, just for your opinions.", "\nYou mean Bobby Mozumder is a myth? We wondered about that.\n\n\nYou mean Bobby Mozumder didn't really post here? We wondered\nabout that, too.\n\nSo, Mr Conner. Is Bobby Mozumder a myth, a performing artist, \na real Moslem. a crackpot, a provocateur? You know everything\nand read all minds: why don't you tell us?", "Mr DeCenso, in spite of requiring Scholarly opinion on the hanging of Judas,\nrejects that the scholarly opinion of the those scholars and then rephrases\nthose scholars opinion on the subject:\n\n\nand \n\n\nActually, if you do further research as to the Greek word \"apacgw,\" you will\nfind that it does denote success. Those scholars did indeed have an excellent\nreason to assume that the suicide was successful. As I pointed out, I\nrecently checked several Lexicons:\n\n\t\"Greek English Lexicon of the New Testament,\" Louw and Nida\n\t\"Robinson's Greek and English Lexicon of the New Testament\"\n\t\"Greek English Lexicon of the New Testament,\" Grimm\n\t\"Word study Concordance,\" Tynsdale\n\t\"A Greek English Lexicon of the New Testament and other \n\t early Christian Writings,\" Bauer-Arndt-Gingrich\n\t\"The New Analytical Greek Lexicon,\" Perschbacher\n\nA couple simply stated \"hanged oneself\", and a couple were more explicit \nand stated that \"apacgw\" means specifically \"kill yourself by hanging.\" A\ncouple also noted that the meaning of one the root words for \"apacgw\" is\n\"strangle, throttle or choke\" (which pretty much invalidates the guy who\nsuggested to David Joslin that Judas was hung upside down). One of the best\nreferences though, \"Robinson's Greek and English Lexicon of the New\nTestament,\" not only stated the translation, it gave both the root words, the\nliteral translation, related greek words which use the same roots, and also\nother presented specific examples of the word in greek literature (to give\nfurther context). \n\nThe word \"apagchw\" has two root words: \"gchw\" is the \"to strangle\" root, and\nthe root word \"apo\" means literally \"away.\" This root words is included in\nwords which denote a transition. It can mean a transition in place (eg: the\ngreek word \"apagello\" means to send a message). \"Apo\" can also denote a\nchange in state and specifically the change from life to death. Robinson\nspecifically makes comparison to the word \"apokteiuo,\" which means \"to kill.\"\nIn literal meaning the word \"apacgw\" means \"to throttle, strangle to put out\nof the way,\" and implicitly denotes a change in life state (ie: away from\nlife, to death). So while the word \"apacgw\" does mean \"to hang,\" it\nspecifically denotes a death as well. Thus Robinson is quite specific when he\nstate that it means \"to hang oneself, to end one's life by hanging.\" He then\nnotes the the use of \"apacgw\" in Homers Odessy 19:230 to denote context. He\npresents that example of \"apacgw\" as being used to explicitly mean \"suicide by\nhanging.\" Now since there is a perfectly good word for strangling, without the\nadded denotation of \"death,\" and as you insist that the Bible was written by\nGod, and every word is precicely correct, you are stuck with the complete\nmeaning of \"apacgw\" (ie: Since the word \"apacgw\" was used, then death is\ndenoted as the result). \n\nBy the way, I note that Mr DeCenso also presents an example of \"apacgw\":\n\n\nNote Mr DeCenso, as you say, the Septuagint was a translation from Hebrew to\nGreek, and you have not shown the original meaning of the Hebrew (ie\" the the\nHebrew say \"and died\"), and thus whether it was simply echoed in the Greek. \nIt should also be pointed out that, regardless of the added \"and died\", the\ncorrect translation would still be \"apacgw,\" as the man did indeed die from\nstrangulation (redundant, but correct). Further, we have evidence that the\nSeptuagint was repeatedly rewritten and reedited (which included versions\nwhich contradicted each other), and such editing was not even necessarily\nexecuted by Greeks. Thus I am not sure that you can use the Septuagint as it\nnow stands, as a paragon of ancient greek. So, what you really need to prove\nyour point Mr DeCenso, is an example, in ancient greek, of someone committing\n\"apacgw\" and surviving. Otherwise I would see you as simply making worthless\nassertions without corresponding evidence. \n\nNow I would note Mr DeCenso, that everytime I go out of my way to research it\none of your apparently contrived exegisis, I pretty much find it false. Thus,\nI think that if you are going to add to the text, something over and above\nwhat the source clearly says, then you had better have an explicit Greek or\nhistorical source to justify it. \n\nBy the way, as to Mr Rose's statement about trees around the Potter's Field:\n\n\nUnless Mr Rose can show that these trees are two thousand years old, or that\nthere are 2000 year old stumps there, or has a 2 thousand year old description\nof the area which mentions such trees, then it is inappropriate for him to\nassert that the present placement of trees prove the location of the trees two\nthousand years ago (after all, things change). \n\nNow as to your other argument, ie: that the money Judas used is not the same\nas the 30 silvers:\n\n\nTrue, Peter (or the author of Acts) does not specifically call Judas' betrayal\n\"an iniquity,\" but for that matter, neither does John specifically call Judas'\nactions \"an iniquity\" either. Further John 13:29 did not say that Judas took\n\n \"Some thought that because, Judas had the money box, Jesus was telling\n him \"Buy what we need for the feast\"; or that he should give something\n to the poor, So after receiving the morsel he immediately went out, and\n it was night.\"\n\nNote that it is said that Judas left, it does not say that he took the money\nbox. Thus when I see your explanation it still seems to me you would choose\nthe a an unproven iniquity, mentioned by another author, in a different\nbook, written at a different time, over the iniquity explicitly mentioned by\nthe author of acts. I find this forced and contrived. \n\nOf course this particular argument becomes moot, since we have have seen\nevidence that \"apacgw\" means suicide. You see, since Judas' hanging was\nsuccessful, he could not have spent the money mentioned in John 13:29, because\nMatthew and Mark explicitly say the betrayal was on the high holy day (ie:\nPassover), and thus he could not have spent the money before killing himself\nthe next day. Thus the money which bought the \"Field of Blood\" would have to\nhave been the 30 pieces of silver (Of course he got the 30 pieces of silver\nthat night as well, and thus couldn't have spent that either. Oh dear, I\nbelieve that the house of cards is comming down). \n\nMaybe we should at this point, discuss now whether Jesus was crucified on\nFriday or Saturday as that is now part of the argument about Judas.\n\nBy the way, as to where the prophesy of the Potter's field came from (ie: the\nmention of it in Matthew), you say:\n\n\nI am reminding you now to discuss it now. It's all part of the same verse we\nare discussing, and I wish you would quit procrastinating and sidestepping \nthese issues.\n \n\t\t\t\tLater,\n\n\t\t\t\tDave Butler\n\n\tA wise man proportions his belief to the evidence.\n\t\t\t\tDavid Hume, Philosopher\n\t\t\t\tAn Inquiry Concerning Human Understanding", "\n What do you accept as a fact -- the roundness of the earth (after \nall, the ancient Greeks thought it was a sphere, and then Newton said \nit was a spheroid, and now people say it's a geoid [?])? yourself \n(isn't your personal identity just a theoretical construct to make \nsense of memories, feelings, perceptions)? I'm trying to think of \nanything that would be a fact for you. Give some examples, and let's\nsee how factual they are by your criteria (BTW, what are your\ncriteria?).\n\n \"Gravity is _not_ a fact\": is that a fact? How about Newton's \nand Einstein's thoughts about gravity -- is it a fact that they had \nthose thoughts? I don't see how any of the things that you are \nasserting are any more factual than things like gravity, atoms or \nevolution.\n\n In short, before I am willing to consider your concept of what\na fact is, I'm going to have to have, as a minimum, some examples of\nwhat you think are facts.\n", "\nSince this is alt.atheism, I hope you don't mind if we strongly disagree...\n\n: The fact is God could cause you to believe anything He wants you to. \n: But think about it for a minute. Would you rather have someone love\n: you because you made them love you, or because they wanted to\n: love you. The responsibility is on you to love God and take a step toward\n: Him. He promises to be there for you, but you have to look for yourself.\n\nIndeed, \"knock and it shall be opened to you\". Dan, why didn't this work?\nI firmly believed in god for 15 years, but I eventually realised I was\nonly deluding myself, fearful to face the truth. Ultimately, the only reason\nwhat kept me believing was the fear of hell. The mental states I \nhad sillily attributed to divine forces or devil's attempts to \ndestroy my faith were nothing more than my imagination, and it is easy\nto achieve the same mental states at will. \n\nMy faith was just learned fear in a disguise.\n\n: Those who doubt this or dispute it have not givin it a sincere effort.\n\nGod is demanding too much. Dan, what was it I believed in for 15 years?\nIf sincere effort is equivalent to active suspension of disbelief -\nwhat it was in my case - I'd rather quit. If god does not help me to\nkeep the faith, I can't go on. \n\nBesides, I am concerned with god's morality and mental health. Does\nshe really want us to _believe_ in herself without any help (revelations,\nguidance, or anything I can feel)? If she has created us, why didn't\nshe make the task any easier? Why are we supposed to love someone who\nrefuses to communicate with us? What is the point of eternal torture\nfor those who can't believe?\n\nI love god just as much as she loves me. If she wants to seduce me,\nshe'll know what to do. \n\n: Simple logic arguments are folly. If you read the Bible you will see\n: that Jesus made fools of those who tried to trick him with \"logic\".\n: Our ability to reason is just a spec of creation. Yet some think it is\n: the ultimate. If you rely simply on your reason then you will never\n: know more than you do now. \n\nYour argument is of the type \"you'll know once you try\".\nYet there are many atheists who have sincerely tried, and believed\nfor many years, but were eventually honest enough to admit that \nthey had lived in a virtual reality.\n\nWhat else but reason I can use? I don't have the spiritual means \nChristians often refer to. My conscience disagrees with the Bible.\nI don't even believe I have a soul. I am fully dependent on my\nbody - indeed, I _am_ this body. When it goes up with flames, so\ndoes my identity. God can entertain herself with copies of me\nif she wants.\n\n: To learn you must accept that which you don't know.\n\nWhat does this mean? To learn you must accept that you don't know \nsomething, right-o. But to learn you must _accept_ something I don't\nknow, why? This is not the way I prefer to learn. It is unwise to\nmerely swallow everything you read. Suppose I write a book telling\nhow the Great Invisible Pink Unicorn (tm) has helped me in my\ndaily problems, would you accept this, since you can't know whether\nit is true or not?\n\nNote that the GIPU is also omnipotent, omnipresent, and loves just\nabout everyone. Besides, He (and She) is guiding every writer on this planet,\nyou and me, and not just some people who write legendary stories\n2000 years ago.\n\nYour god is just one aspect of His and Her Presence.\n\nPetri\n", "\nVery well put. And, in the case of someone who calls himself a Christian\nbrother yet continues in his sin (and claims that his sin is not a sin at \nall, but perfectly acceptable), what should be done? Should Christians \njust ignore a sinful lifestyle in order to not offend the person? By \nreaffirming that the lifestyle is sinful according to the Bible, are \nthey using \"a bullwhip to drive people from Jesus\"? \n\nFrankly, I find the occurance of a homosexual Christian attempting to \npass himself off as a 'straight' Christian in order to have other \nChristians accept his chastisement better a *lot* more serious than \npeople reaffirming that the Bible teaches homosexuality is a sin. ", " ^^-- name?\n\nOther than it tells quite a lot about the Man himself. \n\n\nAre you the spokesman for \"most people?\"\n\n\nThat you don't recognize the Biblical commentary used. Those in the\nchurch know the language though, and have no such excuse. \n\n\nYou missed the point -- which is that the Prophets, the Psalms, and \nRevelation, all together, provide a very rich view of a very special\nevent -- a wedding.\n\n\nHow are you able to make such a conclusion? Please note, that the\nfirst part of Revelation makes it clear that the address is to those\nin the church. That said, it doesn't hurt to try to see what the \nprophecies are ahead of time -- for those outside the church.\n\n\nSo you say. It should be interesting to see what the investigators \nconclude, and what the final judgments are.\n\n\nSo much for war and government eh.\n\n\nVery glad you asked, since I goofed -- it should be Philippian 1:14-19: \n(here from NIV)\n\n\tBecause of my chains, most of the brothers in the Lord\n\thave been encouraged to speak the word of God more\n\tcourageously and fearlessly.\n\n\tIt is true that some preach Christ out of envy and \n\trivalry, but others out of good will. The latter do so\n\tin love, knowing that I am put here for the gospel. \n\tThe former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not\n\tsincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for\n\tme while I am chains. But what does it matter? \n\n\tThe important thing is that in every way, whether from\n\tfalse motives or true, Christ is preached. And because\n\tof this I rejoice.\n\t\nMy comment stems from the realization that we who love the Lord, are\nhuman and imperfect. Whatever we \"preach,\" no matter how eloquent, or\nhow corrupted -- is of little difference. Those who know the Master's\nvoice will recognize Him -- a gem-stone amidst rock. Such is also the \nlesson of the \"stumblingblock.\" For those who have an ear to hear. \t", "\nThe first premise and the conclusion are not properly translated as identity\nstatements, since the \"is\" in those statements is the \"is\" of predication\nrather than of identity. Instead, they should be translated using a\npredicate letter. Using \"g\" to designate God and \"j\" to designate Jesus,\nand the predicate letter \"E\" for the property of being eternal, the\nfirst premise is Eg and the conclusion is Ej.\n The second premise appears to contain an \"is\" of identity, in which\ncase it can be properly symbolized as j = g. But your remark that \"Jesus\nis a subset of God\" suggests that strict identity is not desired here.\nIf, however, the first premise means that all members making up the set\nGod have the property of being eternal, the same conclusion follows.", "\n\n\nThat is an assumption on your part. Where is your proof that one always will\ndegenerate into hating the sinner, because he hates the sin.\n\nI am reminded of the Civil Rights movement in America. It is true that many\nindividuals hated the proponents of racism. It is also true that many \nindividuals hated segregation and discrimination with their whole heart and\nnever degenerated into hating the individuals who practiced it. Dr. King's\nmessage was this. Love the individual, the loving of the individual would\ntransform him into a friend. However, this did not take away his hatred for\nsegregation. His hatred for injustice. \n\n\n\nI would ask, \"Did John the Baptist practice love when he criticized the Jewish\nLeaders of his day?\" Did Jesus Practice love when he threw the moneychangers\nout of the temple?\n\nWe must have at least a distase for sin. We must in order to fight it in \nourselves. Also we must be ready for the call from God to call sin by its\nright name. Jesus loved everyone, but he called sin by its right name.\n\nIt is true that love for others is to guide every step of our walk, but it is\nalso true that sometimes the love for God calls us to stand up for truth.\n\n--\n\"Competition is the law of the jungle.\n Cooperation is the law of civilization.\" -- Eldridge Cleaver", "\"broken\"\n\nAgain, as the original poster of the article, I apologize if it\nimplied that atheism = brokenness. Such was not my intent and\nI apologize for any hurt feelings in the process.", "\n\nMuch of the OT prophecies have a double application: to the Jewish\ncaptivity, and to the end of time. But if Rev. is dated at AD96 its\nprophecies could not apply to the AD70 destructioin of Jerusalem.", "\n\nWell, it's obvious that you *don't* attempt, otherwise you would be aware\nthat they *don't* all \"loudly [claim] to be the One True Christian\".\n\nI've tried to avoid using the phrase \"is/is not christian\" because of these\nownership issues; instead, I've tried the phrase \"Nicene christianity\" in an\nattempt to identify the vast majority of \"christianity\" which has roughly\nsimilar viewpoints on the core theological issues. The JWs do not fall\nwithin this group and in fact espouse a position known as Arianism, which is\nrejected by all the nicene churches and virtually everyone else as well.", "\n\t1) They are religious parodies, NOT atheistic paradies.\n\n\t2) Please substantiate that they are parodies, and are outrageous.\n\t Specifically, why is the IUP any more outrageous than many \n\t religions?\n\n---\n\nPrivate note to Jennifer Fakult.\n\n \"This post may contain one or more of the following:\n sarcasm, cycnicism, irony, or humor. Please be aware \n of this possibility and do not allow yourself to be \n confused and/or thrown for a loop. If in doubt, assume\n all of the above.", "...\n\nI have seen it used in an Orthodox church once, although I can't recall why.\nI found it odd, to say the least. Also, I object to the statement that the\nOrthodox DELETE the filioque from the original form of the Creed.\n\nThe creed originally did NOT contain that phrase, and it is not present\nin the Greek original, which hangs by my desk. Not intending to start a\nflame war. We didn't need to delete what wasn't there.\n\nLarry Overacker (llo@shell.com)\n-- ", "\nThis was a popular belief in the Judaism of Jesus` time, that Elijah\nwould return again (as he had been taken in to heaven in a chariot and\ndid not actually die). However Jesus was referring to John the\nBaptist not in the sense that Elijah was reincarnated as John\n(remember Elijah didn`t die) but that John was a similar prophet to\nElijah. John was a fiery preacher, he wore sackcloth and wandered\nrough through Israel preaching the coming kingdom. The verses that\ndescribe him (in Mark`s gospel) can be linked to OT references about\nElijah. Hence John was similar to Elijah and Jesus was drawing the\nparallels between the two just as he drew parallels with the Suffering\nServant in Isaiah (and other messianic figures) and himself.\n\nA brief reply but I don`t have time to look up all the relevant stuff.\n\nSuffice to say there is a very strong explanation.\n\n\n\nRick.\n\n________________________________________________________________\n\nRichard Johnston Queen`s University\n73 Malone Road Belfast\nBelfast \nNorthern Ireland \nBT9 6SB ", "1. Did you read the FAQs?\n\n2. If NO, Read the FAQs.\n\n3. IF YES, you wouldn't have posted such drivel. The \"Lord, Liar\n or Lunatic\" argument is a false trilemma. Even if you disprove\n Liar and Lunatic (which you haven't), you have not eliminated\n the other possibilities, such as Mistaken, Misdirected, or\n Misunderstood. You have arbitrarily set up three and only\n three possibilities without considering others.\n\n4. Read a good book on rhetoric and critical thinking. If\n you think the \"Lord, Liar, or Lunatic\" discussion is an\n example of a good argument, you are in need of learning.\n\n5. Read the FAQs again, especially \"Constructing a Logical\n Argument.\"\n\nIgnore these instructions at your peril. Disobeying them\nleaves you open for righteous flaming.\n\n\n-- \nMaddi Hausmann madhaus@netcom.com\nCentigram Communications Corp San Jose California 408/428-3553", "\n\nBut then, on the other hand, if you really loved that King more\nthan you did yourself, and He loved you to the point of assuring\nyou that the eternal time spent with him would be eternal ecstasy,\nwould you really opt for that choice?\n\n\n", "\n\n I have found that this isn't a very effective argument. Most atheists are\nperfectly willing to acknowledge the existence and ministry of Jesus--but are\nquite capable of rationalizing the miracles and the resurrection into \nmisunderstandings, hoaxes, or simple fabrications. They can always make an\nanalogy with the _Iliad_, a book that tells the story of the historical Trojan\nWar, but also talks about gods and goddesses and their conversations.\n I don't think it's possible to convince atheists of the validity of \nChristianity through argument. We have to help foster faith and an\nunderstanding of God. I could be wrong--are there any former atheists here who\nwere led to Christianity by argument?", "There has been a lot of discussion about Tyre. In sum, Ezekiel prophesied\nthat the place would be mashed and never rebuilt; as there are a lot of\npeople living there, it would appear that Ezekiel was not literally correct.\n\nThis doesn't bother me at all, because I understand the language Ezekiel used\ndifferently than do so-called Biblical literalists. For example, it sometimes\nhappens that someone says \"My grandson is the cutest baby!\" and then turns\naround and sees the granddaughter and says \"Oh! Isn't she the cutest thing!?\"\n\nThis person is not literally claiming to have lined up all the babies in the\nworld according to cuteness and discovered his own grandchildren tied for\nfirst. Rather, he is trying to express his emotions using words that are very\nobject-oriented. Because this example is one that is common to many people,\nnobody misunderstands the intent of the statements; the Bible, however, is\noften at the mercy of people who assume that everything within must be exactly\nliterally true. For those people, the existence of Tyre is a problem; for me,\nit is not.\n\n\nTurning to the latest person trying to defend Ezekiel, we read this from\nJohn E King:\n\n\nNo, it implies nothing of the kind. If you had nothing but the prophecy from\nEzekiel, and you were told you interpret it literally, you would never say\n\"Oh, he means that there will be houses and businesses and plants and stuff\nlike that.\" You would read \"I will make you a bare rock\" and \"You will never\nbe rebuilt\", and you'd conclude that Tyre would be a bare rock. The only way\nto get from `fishing nets' to `houses and buildings and a medium-large\npopulation' is if you KNOW that all that latter stuff is there.\n\nIn other words, your answer means that Ezekiel misled everybody who read the\nprophecy at the time it was written. There is no way that, given a literal\nreading, they could read this passage and conclude \"medium-size city\".\n\nYou seem to feel that \"Never be rebuilt\" means \"be rebuilt\" -- maybe so, but\nit is hardly a `clear implication'.\n\n\n\n\nWell, no. That's only a bit less than the population of Annapolis, where I'm\nfrom. You know, the Naval Acadamy, the state capital, George Washington\nresigned his commission in the statehouse? Annapolis may not be New York, but\nit's at least a two-horse town.\n\nBut supposing 22,000 people is a \"small town\" -- it's still 22,000 people\nMORE than Ezekiel predicted.\n\n\nAnd you've said nothing about the other problem. In chapter 26, Ezekiel\npredicts that Nebuchadnezzar will will destroy Tyre and loot all their\nvaluables. However, Nebuchadnezzar did NOT destroy Tyre, and in chapter 29\nEzekiel even quotes God as saying \"he and his army got no reward from the\ncampaign he led against Tyre.\"\n\nLet's ignore Alexander for a moment, and just pay attention to chapter 26.\nEzekiel says N. would destroy Tyre, and N. did NOT destroy Tyre. Ezekiel says\nthat N. would plunder their valuables, but N. did NOT plunder their valuables.\n\nRegardless of what you think about Tyre _now_, the fact is that N. died before\nthe place was destroyed. Ezekiel said N. was going to do it, and N. did not.\n\n *\n\nThis post is, of course, pointless. Inerrantists have an amazing ability\nto rewrite the Bible as needed to fit whatever they want it to say.\n\nFor example, I expect Mr King to respond to the comments about Ezekiel 26\nby pulling some \"clear implications\" out of hat.\n\nWhen Ezekiel said that N. would \"demolish your towers\", that clearly implied\nthat the walls would still be standing so people would know where the towers\nused to be. And when Ezekiel said that N. would \"demolish your fine houses\nand throw your stones, timber and rubble into the sea\", that clearly implied\nthat N. would never set foot on the island. And when Ezekiel wrote that N.\nwould \"build a ramp up to your walls\", that clearly implies that N. would\nspend 13 years stomping around on the mainland and never get close to the\nwalls.\n\nSee? A few \"clear implications\" that are totally contrary to the text, and\nyou can reconcile anything you want.\n", "\nIMO, a Christian has no need of weapons. I know it is very contrary to the\nAmerican NRA ethos of the right to bear arms, but Christians should rely on\nthe strength of God to protect them. Note that I say *should*. We are\ninherently insecure but I feel that that is not proper justification to be\narmed to the teeth. A Christian should not have to rely on physical weapons\nto defend himself. A Christian should rely on his faith and intelligence.\nFor instance, I have the faith that God will protect me but God also gave\nme the intelligence to know not to go walking down that dark alley at night.\nTo jump off a cliff and say that God will save me would be putting God to the\ntest. And who are we to test God?\n\nGod be with you,", " \n(Deletion)\n \nFor me, it is a \"I believe no gods exist\" and a \"I don't believe gods exist\".\n \nIn other words, I think that statements like gods are or somehow interfere\nwith this world are false or meaningless. In Ontology, one can fairly\nconclude that when \"A exist\" is meaningless A does not exist. Under the\nPragmatic definition of truth, \"A exists\" is meaningless makes A exist\neven logically false.\n \nA problem with such statements is that one can't disprove a subjective god\nby definition, and there might be cases where a subjective god would even\nmake sense. The trouble with most god definitions is that they include\nsome form of objective existence with the consequence of the gods affecting\nall. Believers derive from it a right to interfere with the life of others.\n \n \n(Deletion)", "[to Benedikt Roseneau ]\n\n#In article <1qv6at$fb4@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>\n# \n#>#The information of that is invariant under your child being a son or\n#>#a daughter and singing about Santa Claus. Wasn't your argument that\n#>#\"there has to be more\"?\n#>More than what?\n#More than we assume.\n\nWhich is what, exactly?\n\n#>(a) Most of the people I debate disagree with my premises. Hardly debate\n#> otherwise.\n# \n#Your favorite point that we sense so it hs to be there has been challenged\n#more than once. When I did it, you said, \"good question\", and did not\n#address it.\n\nI've addressed \"it\" (your caricature is not my \"favourite point\", needless\nto say) at length in a previous outing, and am currently discussing it with \nEric Rescorla. \n\n#>(b) There's little point in responding the same points everywhere; I do\n#> my best to give everyone the courtesy of a reply.\n# \n#You still repeat that point.\n\nI do? Curious, since I believe that was the first time I've ever made it.\nNot that repetition would imply much more than your seeming inability\nto understand; you ask me the same question, I'll give you the same\nanswer, especially when in this case, I know the answer to be true. I\ndo my best to give everyone the courtesy of a reply, but if everyone is\nmaking the same points, and I'm pushed for time, then I try to respond what I \nbelieve are the strongest formulations of those points. If that doesn't\ninclude your post, tough; this is USENET, and life is tough all over.\n\n#>(c) Since there's a great deal of responses this isn't always feasible; I\n#> do my best to honestly answer questions put to me.\n# \n#You drop out of debates with some posters and continue with others. You appear\n#with the same issue every n months, and start the dicussion at the beginning\n#again.\n\nI've only debated this issue twice in a.a, and occasionally in t.a. The\nfirst was in response to Simon Clippingdale's positive assertion that\ndisagreement about moral values inexorably acknowledges that morals\nare relative. It doesn't. Now, Simon has dropped out of the debate\nfor some time; I take that to mean that he is either busy, or bored\nwith the topic. I certainly do not accuse him of dishonesty. Do you? \n\n#>(d) I can't always understand what you say\n# \n#Neither can't I understand you all the time. Usually, one asks what the other\n#side means.\n\nUsually, one does. Usually you're clear, but sometimes you aren't \nand I ask you what you mean; other times you seem to get extremely uptight \nand I feel that I'm debating against line noise. Sometimes I get tired, and \nsometimes I have other things I'd rather do. Again, this is USENET, and\nlife is tough all over. You're going to have to deal with it.\n\n#>(e) You're starting to get personally insulting; I may not even put your name\n#> in the hat in future.\n#\n#That's supposed to be a threat?\n\nNo, that's a simple statement, and an assertion that I am not answerable\nto those who offer me baseless insults. For example, those who accuse me \nof lying about my personal beliefs, while also complaining that I don't answer\ntheir questions. \n\n#>#Like that you what you sense is evidence for the sensed to be there.\n#>#If only everything would be so easy.\n#>\n#>What almost everyone senses is evidence for the sensed to be there.\n#>Because to all intents and purposes, it *is* there.\n#> #We had that argument. For one, your claim that everyone senses it\n#is not founded, and you have been asked to give evidence for it often.\n#And then, the correct statement would be it is reason to assume that it\n#is there unless evidence against it has been found.\n\nI have no problem with the second statement. I have provided an\nargument that almost everyone senses that Freedom is valuable - the\nonly cogent objection to this came from jon livesey, and was offered\nby some other people too: essentially, that people disagree about\nfuzzy concepts such as Freedom. It's a good point, and I'm thinking\nabout it.\n# \n#Your trick is to say, I feel A is not right, and so do many I know,\n#therefore A is absolutely right. It neglects the possibility that\n#these people consider A to be right as an effect of the same process,\n#restricting the claim of its absoluteness to those who have been subject\n#of that process. In other words, refutes it. You make the ontological\n#claim, you have to prove it.\n\nNonsense. My \"trick\" is to say: I feel that A is better than B and so \ndoes almost any disinterested person I ask. Best evidence is therefore \nthat A really is better than B, subject to the assumption that we\ncan establish to our mutual satisfaction what we mean by A and B, and\nthat the resulting system of values is self-consistent.\n\nNow get this: \"really is better\" is an idealisation, a fictional model,\nin the same sense that \"real material existence\" is a fictional model. It\nmay or may not correspond to something true. It is nonetheless a useful\n_assumption_. Far more useful than the equally assumed relativist \n\"trick\", to wit:\n\nI feel that A is better than B, and so does almost any disinterested person\nI ask. However, if even one person disagrees that A is better than B,\nor if even one person dissents from mutually agreed definitions of A and B,\nthen it is the case that B is better than A for that person, and nothing\nmore can be said. \n\nI say this is useless because it inexorably implies that a supermajority\nseeking to maximise A cannot morally take action against someone seeking to\nmaximise B (e.g. a terrorist). To do that would be to claim that \na supermajority's carefully considered morality would be better than the \nterrorist's - which would, of course, be true, but a no-no for an ethical\nrelativist. To claim that ethical relativism implies anything else is\nsimply weasel words, and an example of compartmentalisation to rival\nanything in the world of religion.\n\n#>#For a similar argument, I sense morality is subjective, it does not\n#>#hurt me to do things that are considered to be objectively wrong by\n#>#others.\n#>\n#>If you mean that you do things that some others consider objectively\n#>wrong, and it turns out not to be the case for you - of course this\n#>is possible. It is neither evidence for subjectivism, nor evidence\n#>against objectivism (except sometimes, in a pragmatic sense).\n#>\n#It serves as a counterexample for that everything that is subject to\n#judgements is absolute. And as long as you don't provide evidence for\n#that there is something universally agreed upon there is no reason to\n#believe your hypothesis.\n\nI've done this: freedom, with the proviso that I still have to \nanswer jon's objection that fuzzy concepts like freedom have no\nobjective meaning.\n\n#Further, in order to make morality absolute, universal, or objective,\n#you would have to show that it is independent of humans, or the attributes\n#above look quite misleading.\n\nNot really. What evidence is there that _anything_ exists independently\nof humans? You'll be hard pressed to find any that isn't logically\nequivalent when applied to values.\n\n#>An analogous set of premises would be:\n#>\n#>Premise 1: Some people believe that objectively speaking the shortest\n#> route from my house to a bar is through the main entrance\n#> of the estate, and down the Malahide road.\n#>\n#>Premise 2: I checked it out, and found that the shortest route from my\n#> which is much closer.\n#>\n#>You would never deduce from these that there is no shortest route from my\n#>house to a bar; yet that is seemingly how you derive your relativist claim,\n#>using premises which are logically no different.\n#>\n# \n#No. Morals are a matter of belief so far. The people still believe that the\n#shortest way is through the main entrance. No agreement on *belief* here.\n#And in order to have an analogy you would have to show that there is a\n#shortest way and that there is a method to convince everyone of that it\n#is the shortest way indeed. In other words, your analogy works only when\n#one assumes that your premises are right in the first place. If not, it is\n#a fallacy.\n\nAnd if this were an argument for objectivism, you'd be right. It isn't,\nthough, it's a demonstration that the argument you gave me is neither argument\n*against* objectivism, nor argument *for* relativism. Your gimmick is to\nassume in the first place that values aren't real, and to use this to \"prove\"\nthat values aren't real. In other words, you beg the question against me.\n", "\n\nA Laugh? Tony, this religeous bigot scares the shit out of me, and that\nany one bothers to listen to him causes me to have grave doubts about the\nfuture of just about anything. Shades of the Branch Davidians, Jim Jones,\nand Charlie Manson.\n\n--Uncle Wolf\n--Member Highland Lodge 748 F&AM (Grand Lodge of California)\n--Babtized a Southern Babtist\n--And one who has beliefs beyond the teachings of either.", "\n...\n\nThe so-called Athanasian Creed has never been a recognized standard of faith \nin the Orthodox Church. It was introduced (without the Filioque) in certain \nservice-books in the 17th and 18th centuries at a time when there was a \nstrong Western influence on Orhtodoxy.", "\nWe know that sermon. It is posted roughly every month or so by different\npersons, and that doesn't make it any better.\n\nHow did you get the idea that skeptics are closed-minded? Why don't you\nconsider the possibility that they came to their conclusions by the\nproper methods? Besides, one can come to a conclusion without closing\none's mind to other possibilities.\n\nI you don't agree with a person, please ask him why he thinks like that,\ninstead of insulting him. Perhaps he's right. Follow your own advice,\nbe open-minded.\n\nIf you don't post a bit of evidence for your claims, I'll complain that\nit's always those \"neither a real believer, nor a disbeliever\" types who \nnarrow-mindedly judge others without knowing their motives.\n", "\n\nYes I fully agree with that, but is it \"I don't believe gods exist\", or\n\"I believe no gods exist\"? As MANDTBACKA@FINABO.ABO.FI (Mats Andtbacka)\npointed out, it all hinges on what you take the word \"believe\" to mean.\n\nUnfortunately this is bound up in the definitions of strong and weak\natheism, at least according to the FAQ:\n\n# Atheism is characterized by an absence of belief in the existence of God.\n# Some atheists go further, and believe that God does not exist. The former is\n# often referred to as the \"weak atheist\" position, and the latter as \"strong\n# atheism\".\n# \n# It is important to note the difference between these two positions. \"Weak\n# atheism\" is simple scepticism; disbelief in the existence of God. \"Strong\n# atheism\" is a positive belief that God does not exist. Please do not\n# fall into the trap of assuming that all atheists are \"strong atheists\".\n\n(From mathew's \"An Introduction to Atheism\" version 1.2 last modified 5-Apr-93)\n\nShould the FAQ be clarified to try to pin down this notion of \"belief\"?\nCan it?\n", "\nThere is no reason to believe that Paul's thorn in the flesh was \na sin in his life. That makes little sense in the light of Paul'\nwritings taken in totality. He writes of how he presses for the\nmark, and keeps his body submitted. No doubt Paul had to struggle\nwith the flesh just like every Christian. Paul does associate his \nthorn with a Satanic messenger, and with physical infirmities and tribulation,\nbut not with a sin in his life.", "\nBut remember that had God extinguished the blasphemous trash of Europe (and\nImperialism with it), the United States would not exist today to put an end\nto those \"games\"....begs the question, which came first, the chicken or the\negg???", "93!04.16 e.v. After the Glorious Eve of Taxation\n\nDo what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.\nThe word of Sin is Restriction.\n\n\n\"To all whom it may concern -\n\n...\n\n\"It is known only to a few that there exists an external visible\norganization of such men and women, who having themselves found\nthe path to real self-knowledge, and who, having travelled the\nburning sands, are willing to give the benefit of their experience,\nand to act as spiritual guides to those who are willing to be\nguided.\n\n\"While numberless societies, associations, orders, groups etc.\nhave been founded during the last thirty years in all parts of\nthe civilised world, all following some line of occult study,\nyet there is but ONE ancient organization of genuine Mystics\nwhich shows the seeker after truth a Royal Road to discover\nThe Lost Mysteries of Antiquity, and to the Unveiling of the\nOne Hermetic Truth.\n\n\"This organization is known at the present time as the Ancient\nOrder of Oriental Templars. Ordo Templi Orientis. Otherwise:\nThe Hermetic Brotherhood of Light.\n\n\"It is a Modern School of Magic. And, like the ancient schools\nof magic, it derived its knowledge from the East. This Knowledge\nwas never its possessors.[sic] It was recorded in symbol, parable \nand allegory, requiring a Key for its interpretation....\n\n\"This key can be placed within the reach of all those who... apply\nfor membership to the Oriental Templars (O.T.O.). \n\n\"The O.T.O.... is a body of Initiates in whose hands are\nconcentrated the secret knowledge of all Oriental Orders and of all\nexisting Masonic Degrees....\n\n\"The O.T.O., although an Academia Masonica, is not a Masonic Body,\nso far as the Craft degrees are concerned in the sense in which that\nexpression is usually understood in England, and therefore in no way\nconflicts with or infringes the just priveleges of the United Lodge\nof England. English Master Masons in good standing, by arrangement,\non affiliation, are admitted at reduced charges. Members of the IX\ndegree become part-proprietors of the Estates and Goods of the Order.\nFor further information see the publications of the O.T.O., and the\nsynopsis of the degrees of the O.T.O.\"\n\n'Constitution of the Ancient Order of Oriental Templars,\n Ordo Templi Orientis', \n\nby Frater Superior Merlin Peregrinus X Degree, \nPast Grand Master Albert Karl Theodor Reuss\n\n\nTaken from _Equinox III: 10_, \nEdited by Frater Superior Rex Summus Sanctissimus,\nUnited States Caliph of Ordo Templi Orientis\n\n\nInvoke me under my stars. Love is the law, love under will.\n\nI am I!", "\n\tThat is not an \"atheism mythology\" in any sense of the word.\n\"Religious paradoy\" would be significantly more appropriate.\n\n\tThe 2nd part is rendered null and void by the simple fact that I\ndo know several \"strong\" atheists. I am sure that others do. I myself am\n\"strong\" in the sense that I find the standard concept of God without any\nmeaning. Any attempt to bring meaning either results in the destruction of \nthe viability of language, or in internal self contradiction. \n\n\tThe concept of strong atheism is not just a whimsical fantasy. They, \nand I, exist.\n\n\tYour strawman is pointless and weak.\n\n---\n\nPrivate note to Jennifer Fakult.\n\n \"This post may contain one or more of the following:\n sarcasm, cycnicism, irony, or humor. Please be aware \n of this possibility and do not allow yourself to be \n confused and/or thrown for a loop. If in doubt, assume\n all of the above.", "\n\nIf I get a chance I will ask them this weekend.\n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nThe words I have underlined are at the heart of the problem. A \"quick\nlook\" doesn't do justice to the depth of the book of Jeremiah. Having\nstudied the Jeremiah/Ezekial period solidly for over a year at one\nstage of my life, I have to say that there is a great deal of underlying\ntheological meaning in the judgement prophesies. Let me make one point.\nThe clash between Jeremiah and the \"false prophets\" was primarily in\nthe theological realm. The \"false prophets\" understood their relatioship\nto God to be based on the covenant that the Lord made with David. It is\npossible to trace within the pages of the Old Testament who this covenant,\nwhich was initially conditional on the continued obedience of David's\ndescendants, came to be viewed as an unconditional promise on the part\nof the Lord to keep a descendant of David's upon the throne and to never\nallow Jerusalem to subjegated by any foreign power. Jeremiah was not a\nJudahite prophet. He was from Anathoth, across the border in what had formerly\nbeen Israelite territory. When he came to prophesy, he came from the\ntheological background of the covenant the Lord had made with Israel\nthrough Moses. The northern Kingdom had rejected the Davidic covenant\nafter the death of Solomon. His theology clashed with the theology of the\nlocal prophets. It was out of a very deep understanding of the Mosaic\ncovenant and an actute awareness of international events that Jeremiah\nspoke his prophesies. The \"judgement prophesies\" were deeply loaded with\ntheological meaning.\n\nIn my opinion, both the Portland earthquake prophesy and the David Wilkerson\n\"New York will burn\" prophesy are froth and bubble compared to the majestic\ntheological depths of the Jeremiah prophesies.\n\n--\n ___\nBill Rea (o o)\n-------------------------------------------------------------------w--U--w---", "\n ^^^^^^^\n\nA convention for Santa Claus impersonators? Please elaborate, enquiring minds\n(those in the second and third jars from the left) want to know....", "\n\nI don't know which passage you are refering to, but the passage I have\noften seen cited as an example of a mother image of God is Isaiah 49:15\n\"Can a woman forget her sucking child / that she should have no \ncompassion / on the son of her womb? / Even these may forget, / \nyet I will not forget you.\" \n \nThis passage is *not* a mother image of God at all. The mother here\nis the image of the best human constancy can show, and it is \ncontrasted with the constancy of God. The mother figure here represents\nmankind, not God.\n-- \n==============================================================================\nMark Baker | \"The task ... is not to cut down jungles, but \naa888@Freenet.carleton.ca | to irrigate deserts.\" -- C. S. Lewis\n==============================================================================\n\n[Luke 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, killing the prophets and stoning those\nwho are sent to you! How often would I have gathered your children together\nas a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!", " \n\nI would label him rather an original Christian, not a Pauline Christian,\nthough. Sad that the original church lost the game.\n\nCheers,\nKent", "PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are\nover all his works.", "\n\n\nSorry, but I think this interpretation of the Matthew 13 parables is\nnonsense. I.e.,\n\n\nMatthew 16:12 explains that by \"leaven of the Pharisees\" Jesus was simply\nreferring to their teaching; not sin/corruption/heresy.\n\nJesus gaves His apostles the keys of the kingdom and said that\nthe gates of hell would not prevail against His church.\n", "\nI agree, with the exception that I don't preach ignoring our cultures.\n\n\nIn Revelation 2-3, we see that in the first century church, there was one\ncongregation in each major city. So there was one unified church. Now in\neach city, there were people of different cultures. Naturally, they\nformed something of a stew, with different members having different\nheritages. Nevertheless, they were ONE body. They met together,\nsometimes as smaller groups in their homes and sometimes in bigger groups\nin places such as the temple courts.\n\nNow in a particular city, then and now, you will find that there is a\ncommon language associated with that region. For instance, in Rome, Latin\nwas spoken. In the United States today, English is spoken. So it would\nmake sense that congregations in different cities would speak the common\nlanguage and not necessarily Latin.\n\nNaturally, you would expect the lead evangelist to preach in the common\nlanguage. In the first century church, there were probably many people\nin the congregation who could speak a given tongue to translate the\nmessage for people of foreign ethnic groups. Today, however, you don't\nsee people speaking in tongues to translate sermons, even in so-called\nPentacostal churches. We do have a modern day equivalent though --\nbi-lingual speakers. Now in the unified church of which I am a member -\nsometimes called the International Churches of Christ, when we all meet\ntogether on Sundays, there are headphones on people who don't speak\nEnglish from which they hear an ongoing translation of the sermon in their\nnative tongue. Neat idea, huh?\n\nNow, we meet in different size groups in a random sort of way on Sundays,\nso sometimes there will be a meeting of only Haitians or of Spanish-\nspeaking people, for example, who will hear an evangelist preach in their\nnative language. In addition, we meet in small groups a couple of times\nduring the week for Bible discussion groups and Devotionals. So someone\nwho speaks a different language will almost always be with people who also\nspeak his language (assuming the congregation is large enough) for those\nmeetings.\n\nAs for the people who speak the common language, they can keep in touch\nwith their culture, if they want, but they will also have equally deep\nfriendships among their church relationships with people of many various\nnationalities. \n\n\nThe action of letting Catholics worship in a native language instead of\nLatin? Indeed not! See my second paragraph in response to the second\nclipping of your article.\n\nHowever, if you mean the action of forming denominations based on a\nculture, then the purpose of the church has been indeed thwarted.\n\nI'll assume the second possiblility when answering your next clipping.\n\n\nYou have met some needs of people, certainly, by helping them to be proud\nof their cultural heritages when most denominations didn't. Yet you have\nlargely isolated yourselves from having quality \"Christian\" friendships\noutside your nationality (and your denomination).\n\nWe shall certainly give people a place to feel comfortable with their\nheritage. However, we will do this in a way that does not destroy church\nunity, but rather encourages friendships among all disciples.\n\n\nIt sounds like these groups have wonderful intentions, but they are going\nabout things in the wrong way. And names like the African Methodist\nEpiscopal Church still make me cringe, although not as much as before.\n\nI understand that there was more racism in the past that caused such\ngroups to be formed, but now we should try to unite. I know that it's\nhard for many people on this newsgroup to imagine there being only one\nbody of people on earth, but it is quite possible, and I am working to\nmake it happen. However, what might be a smaller step towards unity,\nwould be taking the word \"African\" out of your denomination's name. Then\nperhaps someday a long time off, you can also remove the \"Methodist\nEpiscopal\" part also, and simply be part of \"the Church\".\n\n\nThere shall be one church, for the sake of unity, AND it shall be useful\nin helping students new to America make the transition in culture,\nlanguage, and thought. We shouldn't make a new denomination to try to\nsolve problems. The whole denominational mindset only causes more\nproblems, sadly. \n\n\nThank you for the invitation. That shows me that you indeed have the\nheart to spread the gospel of Jesus as well as take part in your cultural\nheritage. Thank you also for responding to my post. I know (all too well)\nhow they can be very time-consuming.\n\nThe whole idea of celebrating your culture is paved with good intentions,\nbut I still feel that you must restore and preserve unity at the same\ntime. My own church, the Boston church, has the acapella singing that you\nmentioned in your post, yet doesn't limit expression of my Mexican\nculture, even though I am in the MIT Campus ministry and not the Spanish\n(speaking) Zone. I have made a commitment to God that I will go to the\nSunday services of my church, because I know that my brothers and sisters\nhere are fully devoted in love for God as his disciples.\n\nI don't believe in tongues, as you may have already picked up on, because\nof my understanding of Biblical Christianity. However, I am certainly\nwilling to visit your congregation provided that it doesn't interfere with\nmy normal worship. Since you also live in Cambridge, I also extend an\ninvitation to you to visit our services as often as you like. You can\nmeet the MIT students at the Student Center (across from 77 Mass. Ave.) at\n9AM on Sundays to leave for worship or simply call me after Wednesday\nnight to find out where the service will be held on a particular day.\nMy number is 225-7598, but will be 354-1357 in a few weeks from now and\nfor the rest of the summer. Our service normally last from 10AM to noon,\nbut occasionally are later or earlier (1-3 times per year). \n\n\nDefinitely!\n\nLet's also strive to grow in obedience to the Lord through being men and\nwomen after God's own heart.", "\n\nThis brings up an interesting subject that has not been discussed much,\nand probably has not been studied much.\n\nAs some of you may be aware, I've posted a lot of articles lately on\npersonality typing (of which the MBTI is a test vehicle). To come up\nto speed, just read 'alt.psychology.personality' and/or ask for by\npersonality type summary file.\n\nOne observation is that people have significantly different personalities\n(no question on this) which seem to be essentially in-born. With respect\nto church attendance and participation, some people thrive on this, while\nother people have real difficulty with this because they prefer a more\nsolitary and contemplative lifestyle - that is, they are de-energized if\nconfronted with excessive closeness to outside activities and lots of\npeople. Of course this is measured by extroversion/introversion.\n\nMy impression is that many churches are totally blind to this fact, and\ncreate environments that 'scare away' many who are naturally introverted\n(there are many introverted characters in the Bible, btw). I know, I am\nquite introverted in preference, and find the 'pressure' by many churches\nto participate, to meet together in large groups, etc., to be very\nuncomfortable. Knowing what I know now, these churches have been overly\ninfluenced by highly extroverted people who thrive on this sort of thing.\n(BTW, there's nothing wrong with either extroversion or introversion, both\npreferences have their place in the Body).\n\nMaybe I should define extrovert/introvert more carefully since these words\nare usually not used correctly in our culture. The extrovert/introvert\nscale is a measure of how a person is energized. The following is\nexcerpted from my summary:\n\n1. Energizing - How a person is energized:\n\n Extroversion (E)- Preference for drawing energy from the outside\n world of people, activities or things.\n\n Introversion (I)- Preference for drawing energy from one's internal\n world of ideas, emotions, or impressions.\n\n\nHopefully this will elicit further discussion as to how churches can\nstructure themselves to meet the real needs of the people who comprise\nthe Body of Christ, instead of trying to change people's personalities\nto fit them into a particular framework. I'm sure there are other aspects\nof how churches have not properly understood personality variances among\ntheir members to the detriment of all.\n\nJon Noring\n\n-- \n\nCharter Member --->>> INFJ Club.", " \n]The \"corrupted over and over\" theory is pretty weak. Comparison of the\n]current hebrew text with old versions and translations shows that the text\n]has in fact changed very little over a space of some two millennia. This\n]shouldn't be all that suprising; people who believe in a text in this manner\n]are likely to makes some pains to make good copies.\n \nTell it to King James, mate.\n \n]C. Wingate + \"The peace of God, it is no peace,\n] + but strife closed in the sod.\n]mangoe@cs.umd.edu + Yet, brothers, pray for but one thing:\n]tove!mangoe + the marv'lous peace of God.\"\n ", "\nThis is a good point, but I think \"average\" people do not take up Christianity\nso much out of fear or escapism, but, quite simply, as a way to improve their\nsocial life, or to get more involved with American culture, if they are kids of\nimmigrants for example. Since it is the overwhelming major religion in the\nWestern World (in some form or other), it is simply the choice people take if\nthey are bored and want to do something new with their lives, but not somethong\nTOO new, or TOO out of the ordinary. Seems a little weak, but as long as it\ndoesn't hurt anybody...\n \n\nThese are good quotes, and I agree with both of them, but let's make sure to\nalter the scond one so that includes something like \"...let him be, as long as\nhe is not preventing others from finding their peace.\" or something like that. \n(Of course, I suppose, if someone were REALLY \"at peace\", there would be no\nneed for inflicting evangelism)\n\n\nWell, it is a sure thing we will have to live with them all our lives. Their\npopularity seems to come and go. I remember when I first entered High School,\nI was an atheist (always had been) and so were about 7 of my friends. At this\ntime, 5 of those 7 have converted, always to Christianity (they were all also\nimmigrants from Taiwan, or sons of immigrants, hence my earlier gross\ngeneralization). Christianity seems a lot more popular to people now than it\never has before (since I've been noticing). Maybe it is just my perceptions\nthat are chagning. Who knows?\nI for one am perfectly willing to live and let live with them, so long as we\nhave some set of abstract rights/agreements on how we should treat each other:\nI have no desire to be hurt by them or their notions. For all the well-put\narguments on this usenet, it never does any good. Argumentation does not\nreally seem to apply to Christians (or even some atheists)- it must simply be a\nstep the person takes naturally, almost, \"instinctively\"...\n\n\nbest regards,\n\n********************************************************************************\n* Adam John Cooper\t\t\"Verily, often have I laughed at the weaklings *\n*\t\t\t\t who thought themselves good simply because *\n* acooper@macalstr.edu\t\t\t\tthey had no claws.\"\t *\n********************************************************************************", "\n\t+ I will put enmity between you [the Serpent] and the woman, and\n\t+ between your seed and her seed, she [can also be read he] shall\n\t+ crush your head and you shall bruise her [or his] heel.\n\t+ -Genesis 3.15\n\n In the Hebrew of Genesis 3:15, the gender is clearly masculine.\n\n\t+ HE shall crush your head, and you shall bruise HIS heel.\n\n The Latin has feminine forms, only by an accident of grammar.", "\nI'm curious to know if Christians ever read books based on critique\non the religion, classical text such as \"Age of Reason\" by Paine,\nor \"The Myth Maker\" by Jacobi. Sometimes it is good to know your\nenemy, and if you want to do serious research you have to understand\nboth sides, and not solely the one and only right one.\n\nCheers,\nKent\n", "Peir-Yuan Yeh asks:\n\nsame >or part of them are the same? How about Torah? Are the first five\nbooks >of OT as the same as Torah?????\n\nYes, yes, and yes. Jewish history as recorded in the Old Testament and\nas shown by archaeology are the same. Kings, revivals, Temples, and all.\n\nThe Torah, as far as I know, is the five books of Moses. Then come the\nProphets (all the Prophets, plus Joshua, Judges, 1&2 Samuel, 1&2 Kings)\nand the Writings (Psalms, Proverbs, Lamentations, Ruth, Esther, Ezra,\nNehemiah, Ecclesiates, Song of Songs, 1&2 Chronicles, Job).\n\nAnd the veracity of Isaiah, which you quoted to your Moslem friend is\nquite well known. A complete manuscript exists that dates back to past\n200 BC, and is kept in a Museum in Israel. It was found among the Dead\nSea Scrolls, which greatly enhanced our knowledge of the veracity of the\nOld Testament, as they date back to around the time of Christ, whereas\nbefore, the oldest complete manuscript in Hebrew was from around 900 AD.\n\nYour Moslem friend is sorely mistaken, but understandably so. If Jesus\nwas crucified, and atoned for our sins, he must have been God, for only\nthe death of God could atone for the sins of all humanity. And as\nIsaiah predicts, the messiah will be called \"the mighty God.\" And if he\nwas God, then he must have rose, for as St. Paul wrote, it was not\npossible that death could hold him. And if Jesus rose from the dead,\nyour Moslem friend would have little reason to be a Moslem. Which is\nwhy he denies the authenticity of the Old Testament.", "\n Me too. Our local used book store is the second largest on the\n West Coast, and I couldn't find a copy there. I guess atheists\n hold their bibles in as much esteem as the theists.\n\n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ \n\nBob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM \n\nThey said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,\nand sank Manhattan out at sea.", "What an exciting thread (finally!)\n\nMitra is Sanskrit for Friend, as such He started out as an avatar of Lord Visnu\n mentioned first in the Vedas. Later he seems to have risen to chief prominence\n worshipped by the Persians. Associated with the Sun but NOT the Sun, he is\n the lord of contract honor and obedience, therefore naturally worshipped by\n soldiers. He was ordered by the Sun to slay the bull of heaven and He reluct-\n antly agreed because of His obligation...the blood of that bull spilled and\n grew all earth life...then Mitra and the Sun sat down to eat.\n\nWorship of Lord Mitra ended in Persia with the ascension of the Zoroastrians.\n\nHundreds of years later He was rediscovered and thrown into the Official Roman\n Pantheon (tm) for some semi-tricky reason, I forget why. But all references of\n Him ended abruptly when He was stricken from same, so apparently His worship\n was some sort of vehicle for advancement in the bureaucracy, like membership\n in the Communist Party was in the Soviet Bloc. The sociology of religion in\n ancient times is fascinating!\n\nOh, His B-day was 25 Dec. Ahem.\n\nI am not sure if the mystery cult really lasted after His was booted from the\n Roman Imperial God Roster or what. It contained mostly soldiers, with 7 levels\n of initiation. They worshipped underground in caverns in pews. The bull horns\n in those temples were for scaring away or impaling evil spirits, I'm not sure\n that they had Mithraic significance or not.\n\nI don't know that the ritual meal was of a cannibalistic nature as is the\n Christian masses. But eating deities goes way back to Old Kingdom Egypt.\n\nSomeone mentioned bullfighting. Did Mithraists sacrifice bulls? I forget. More\n likely, for a religious source, might be the shower of bull's blood enjoyed\n by the worshippers of Cybele on the Day of Blood? Cybele worship extended all\n throughout even up to France bigtime.", "Can someone cite Biblical references to homosexuality being immoral, other\nthan Leviticus? So far, when I ask, around here, I get the verses from\nLeviticus spouted at me, but the whole rest of that book tends to be\nignored by Christians (haven't seen any stonings in a _long_ time :-).\n\nLater,\nMax (Bob) Muir\n\n[The list was posted not long ago, as I recall, aside from Lev, commonly\ncited passages are:\n\nthe story of Sodom. Note however that this was a homosexual rape, and\nthere's no disagreement that that is wrong. I take an intermediate\nposition on this: note that Sodom is referred to elsewhere in the\nBible for its sinfulness. It doesn't seem to have been known\nspecifically for homosexuality. Rather, I think it was considered a\ncesspool of all sins. However from what we know of Jewish attitudes,\nhomosexuality would have contributed to the horror of the action\ndescribed. (It almost seems to have been contrived to combine about\nas many forms of evil in one act as possible: homosexual rape of\nguests, who were actually angels.) But this story is not specifically\nabout homosexuality.\n\nIn the NT, the clear references are all from Paul's letters. In Rom\n1, there is a passage that presupposes that homosexuality is an evil.\nNote that the passage isn't about homosexuality -- it's about\nidolatry. Homosexuality is visited on people as a punishment, or at\nleast result, of idolatry. There are a number of arguments over this\npassage. It does not use the word \"homosexuality\", and it is referring\nto people who are by nature heterosexual practicing homosexuality.\nSo it's not what I'd call an explicit teaching against all homosexuality.\nBut it does seem to support what would be a natural assumption anyway,\nthat Paul shares the general negative Jewish attitude towards \nhomosexuality.\n\nThe other passages occur in lists of sins, in I Cor 6:9, and I Tim\n1:10. Unfortunately it's not entirely clear what the words used here\nmean. There have been suggestions that one has a broader meaning,\nsuch as \"wanton\", and that another may be specifically \"male\nprostitute\". Again, we don't have here a precise teaching about\nhomosexuality, but it is at least weak supportive evidence that Paul\nshared the OT's negative judgement on homosexuality.\n\nJude 1:7 is sometimes cited, however it's probably not relevant. The\ncontext in Jude involves angels. Since those who were almost raped in\nSodom were angels, it seems likely that \"strange flesh\" refers to\nintercourse with angels.\n\nAs you can see, the NT evidence is such that people's conclusion is\ndetermined by their approach to the Bible. Conservatives note that\nthe passages from Paul's letters imply that he accepted the OT\nprohibition. This is enough for them to regard it as having NT\nendorsement. Liberals note that there's no specific teaching, and no\nclear definition of what is being prohibited or why (is the concern in\nRom 1 the connection of homosexuality to pagan worship? what exactly\ndo the words in the lists of sins mean?). Thus some believe it is\nlegitimate to regard this as a attitude Paul took with him from his\nbackground and not a specific teaching of the Gospel.\n\nThis is an explosive topic, which tends to result in long\ndissertations on the exact meaning of various Greek words. But it's\nclear to me that that's mostly irrelevant. What it really comes down\nto is whether people are looking to the Bible for law or whether they\nbelieve that such as approach is inconsistent with the Gospel. This\nappears to depend upon one's reaction to the message of the Bible as a\nwhole, as well as one's perception of the needs of the church today.\nThis is a difference of approach at least as serious as the difference\nbetween Protestant and Catholic in the 16th Cent, and one where both\nsides believe that the Bible is so obviously on their side that they\nkeep thinking all they have to do is quote a few more passages and the\nother side will finally come to their senses. That makes things\nvery frustrating for a moderator, who realizes that such an optimistic\noutcome is not very likely...", "burning yourself alive seems a rough way to go, given the waco bunch\nhad other choices.\n\nbut it reminded me of the russian old-believers who, thinking the\nantichrist was coming in 1666, grew frantic when Peter the Great \nstarted westernizing Russia and reforming the Russian Church a few\nyears later. They locked themselves in their churches and burned\nthemselves alive by the thousands. \n\nare there other cases of apocalypse-obsessed christians resorting\nto self-imolation? is there a history of precedents?", "\n This is no less logical than the assumption that if something is\n_not_ in the Bible, then it _must not_ be done. But I don't really\nthink that's what he's saying anyway. See below.\n\n\n What about the letter to Philemon? In it Paul at least hints that a\ncertain slave be released. Also, slavery in those times was not the\nsame as the type of slavery we had in the U.S. I think a better\ncomparison would be to indentured servitude. I don't really want to get\ninto a discussion on slavery. Anyway, although it does demonstrate your\npoint, I don't think it is relevent, because the original poster did not\nsay that absence of specific condemenation proves something is not\nimmoral.\n\n Back to the original poster's assertion. He is not in fact making\nthe logical error of which you accuse him. He stated the fact that the\nBible does not say that babies cannot be baptized. Also, we know that\nthe Bible says that _everyone_ must be baptized to enter Heaven.\n_Everyone_ includes infants, unless there is other Scripture to the\ncontrary, i.e. an exception. Since there is no exception listed in the\nBible, we must assume (to be on the safe side) that the Bible means what\nit says, that _everyone_ must be baptized to enter Heaven. And so we\nbaptize infants.\n\n To summarize, you accused the original poster of saying if something\nis not forbidden by the Bible, then that proves it is OK; i.e. if\nsomething cannot be disproven, it is true. He rather seemed to be\nasserting that since the Bible does not forbid, _you cannot prove_,\nusing the Bible, that it is _not_ OK. There is a difference between\nproving whether or not something can be proven or disproven (there are\ntheories on provability in the field of Logic, by the way) and actually\nproving or disproving it. The other logical error we must avoid falling\ninto is the converse: that if something cannot be proven, then it is\nfalse. This seems to be the error of many _sola scriptura_ believers.\n\n I think the only thing that can be proven here is that one cannot use\nScripture alone to prove something either way about infant Baptism,\nalthough the evidence seems to me to favor it.", "\nTranslation of the above paragraph:\n\"I am uninformed about the evidence for evolution. Please send me the\ntalk.origins FAQs on the subject.\"\n", "\n > Can't someone describe someone's trinity in simple declarative\n > sentences that have common meaning?\n\nI offer him four attempts.\n\nFirst is an essay by me (largely indebted to Attempts Two and\nThree), obtainable by sending the message GET TRINITY ANALOGY to\nLISTSERV@ASUACAD.BITNET or to LISTSERV@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU\n\nSecond is a couple of books by Dorothy L Sayers: a play called THE\nZEAL OF THY HOUSE, and a non-fiction book called THE MIND OF THE\nMAKER. The play can be found in the book FOUR SACRED PLAYS, and\nalso in various other collections, including one called RELIGIOUS\nDRAMA (Meridian Books) and one called BEST PLAYS OF 1937.\n\nThird is the book MERE CHRISTIANITY by C S Lewis, particularly the\nlast section, called \"Beyond Personality\".\n\nFourth is a book called THEOLOGY FOR BEGINNERS, by the Roman\nCatholic writer Frank Sheed. I will say that I do not find Sheed's\napproach altogether satisfying, but I know some persons whose minds\nI respect who do.", "Someone sent me this FAQ by E-mail and I post my response here.\n\n[I'm not enforcing the inclusion limits on this FAQ because most\nof our readers probably haven't seen it. --clh]\n\nChrist warns that anyone who \"breaks one of the least of these\ncommandments *and* teaches otheres to do the same will be called least in\nthe kingdom of heaven\" (Matt. 5:19. This FAQ is so full of error that I\nmust respond to it. I hope that whoever maintains will remove from it the\npartisan theology.\n\n\n1. The law was known to man before it was revealed on Mount Sinai. Rom\n4:15 notes that \"where no law is, there is no transgression.\" Not only\ndid sin exist before Sinai (Eden), but the Sabbath was kept before it\nwas revealed on Sinai (Ex 16).\n\n2. The problem with the first covenant was not the law, but the promise\nwhich undergirded it. God wanted to perform his will in the lives of the\npeople, but in their ignorance after 400 years of slavery, they promised\n\"what ever He says to do we will do.\" That is why the new covenant is\nbased on \"better promises\" (Heb. 8:6). Rather than do away with the law\nGod promised to \"put my laws in their minds and write them on their\nhearts\" (Heb. 8:10).\n\n3. Including the Sabbath in the Acts 15 is selective inclusion. The\nSabbath was more important to the Jews than circumcision. If any attempt\nhad been made to do away with the Sabbath the reaction would have been\neven more strident than is recorded in Acts 15. Do not confuse the weekly\nSabbath of the Decalogue with the ceremonial sabbaths which could occur at\nany time of the week and were part of the law (ceremonial) which was\n*added* because of transgression (of the moral law) (Gal 3:19).\n\n4. Israel stands for God's people of all time. That is why God *grafted*\nthe Gentiles in. Roma 9:4 says that the adoption, the glory, the\ncovenants, the giving of the law, the service of God and the promises\nbelong to Israelites. In explanation Paul makes it clear that being born\ninto Israel is not enough \"For they are not all Israel, which are of\nIsrael\" v 6. Then in Gal 3:19 he says \"if ye be Christ's, then are ye\nAbraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.\" All Christians are\nAbraham's seed, Jews, Israelites. Not physically, for that is not the\ncriterion, but spiritually. We are joint heirs with Jesus based on the\npromise God made to all his people the Israelites.\n\n\nPeople would probably agree but they are wrong. How can the Sabbath\ncommandment be ceremonial when it is part of a law which predates the\nceremonial laws? You are not free to choose your time of worship. Even\nif you were why do you follow a day of worship which has its origins in pagan\nsun worship. Would you rather give up a day which God blessed,\nsanctified, and hallowed in exchange for one which all church leaders\nagree has not biblical foundation (see Sabbath Admissions in\nsoc.religion.christian.bible-study).\nI do not care what Calvin or any theologian says. My guide is what God\nsays. If being not under the law means we do not have to keep the law,\nwhy is it that the only section of the law we have trouble with is the\nSabbath commandment, which is the only one God thought was important\nenough to say *REMEMBER*? If you study the word deeply you will note that\nthe message is that we are no longer under the condemnation of the law but\nfreed by the grace of God. If a cop pulls me over for speeding, then in\ncourt I ask for mercy and the judge does not throw the book at me but gives me\ngrace, do I walk out of the court saying \"I can now go on speeding, for I\nam now under grace?\" Being under grace I now drive within the speed\nlimit. Paul adds to it in Rom. 3:31 \"Di we then make void the law through\nfaith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.\" \"Wherefore the law is\nholy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good\" (Rom. 7:12).\n\n\nDo you prefer implication to fact? A careful study of the Acts 20 shows\nthat the meeting was on Saturday night and that on Sunday morning Paul did\nnot go to a worship service, but set off on a long journey by foot to\nAssos. In ICor 16 there is no way you can equate \"lay by him in store\"\nwith \"go to a worship service.\"\n\nWrong. These are the sabbath days of the ceremonial law, not the Sabbath\nday of the moral law.\nWhy would you prefer to twist and turn, relying on different arguments\nwhich conflict with each other, rather than obey a simple request from a\nGod who loved you enough to die for you. Jesus died because the law could\nnot be changed. Why bother to die in order to meet the demands of a\nbroken law if all you need to do is change the law. Penalties for law\nbreaking means the law is immutable. That is why it is no sin not to\nfollow the demands of the ceremonial laws. It will always be a sin to\nmake false gods, to violate God's name, to break the Sabbath, to steal, to\nkill, etc. Except it you disagree. But then your opinion has no weight\nwhen placed next to the word of God.\n\nDarius\n\n[It's not clear how much more needs to be said other than the FAQ. I\nthink Paul's comments on esteeming one day over another (Rom 14) is\nprobably all that needs to be said. I accept that Darius is doing\nwhat he does in honor of the Lord. I just wish he might equally\naccept that those who \"esteem all days alike\" are similarly doing\ntheir best to honor the Lord.\n\nHowever I'd like to be clear that I do not think there's unambiguous\nproof that regular Christian worship was on the first day. As I\nindicated, there are responses on both of the passages cited.\n\nThe difficulty with both of these passages is that they are actually\nabout something else. They both look like they are talking about\nnnregular Christian meetings, but neither explicitly says \"and they\ngathered every Sunday for worship\". We get various pieces of\ninformation, but nothing aimed at answering this question. \n\nAct 2:26 describes Christians as participating both in Jewish temple\nworship and in Christian communion services in homes. Obviously the\ntemple worship is on the Sabbath. Acts 13:44 is an example of\nChristians participating in them. Unfortunately it doesn't tell us\nwhat day Christians met in their houses. Acts 20:7, despite Darius'\nconfusion, is described by Acts as occuring on Sunday. (I see no\nreason to impose modern definitions of when days start, when the\nBiblical text is clear about what was meant.) The wording implies to\nme that this was a normal meeting. It doesn't say they gathered to\nsee Paul off, but that when they were gathered for breaking bread,\nPaul talked about his upcoming travel. But that's just not explicit\nenough to be really convincing. Similarly with 1 Cor 16:2. It says\nthat on the first day they should set aside money for Paul's\ncollection. Now if you want to believe that they gathered specially\nto do this, or that they did it in their homes, I can't disprove it,\nbut the obvious time for a congregation to take an offering would be\nwhen they normally gather for worship, and if they were expected to do\nit in their homes there would be no reason to mention a specific day.\nSo I think the most obvious reading of this is that \"on the first day\nof every week\" simply means every time they gather for worship. \n\nI think the reason we have only implications and not clear statements\nis that the NT authors assumed that their readers knew when Christian\nworship was.", "\n\n\n\nActually the book is called \"Seventh Day Adventists believe...\" And there\nare 27 basica beliefs. I believe it is printed by the Reveiew and\nHerald Publishing Association.\n\n--\n\n\"Competition is the law of the jungle.\n Cooperation is the law of civilization.\" -- Eldridge Cleaver", "\nMaybe you should dig a little further Charles. Hislop's scholarship was\naccepted by the Bristish Oriental Institute which, at the time, was the premere\nInstitute for Oriental studies. As I've stated over and over, I've checked\nout about 25% of his references (most are now out of print or in private\nlibraries) and the likes of Wilkerson and Layard hold their own merit. THey\ntoo came to the same conclusions and if you will trouble yourself, you will\nfind that their knowledge of the mysteries have yet to be surpassed. Both were\nhighly honored by the British Oriental Museum. Wilkerson is known as one of\nthe leading archeologist in the history of Egyptiology and Layard is still\nbeing refered two after 200 yrs of archeology in the Mesopotamian regions. He\nwas recently refered to in a TIME article on Babylonian archeology. \n\nPhony scholarship is when you review their references and find that they have\nmisquoted or misrepresented the conclusions. Hislop did not. His conclusions\ndo not tickle the ears, that much is self evident. But to assert that his\nconclusions are \"spurious\" is without merit. He gave references to all his\nconclusions and as I have stated, for the last 25 years I have used his\nconclusions in debates at RC seminaries and brotherhoods, not to mention the\nindividual priests and bishops that I have talked to one on one. No counter to\nHislops scholarship was made. The only rebuttals were against his conclusions\nbecause they do totally undermined the claims of the RCC. He was showing that\nthe intitution of the RCC was based on the mysteries (which others have shown\neven to this day in various articles and topics). THe tongues movement in\nCorinth was a direct result of the mysteries entering into the church. If it\nwas so in Corinth, why could they not have an influence in Rome, the city of\nseven hills?\n\nAlso, you do not have to listen to his conclusions, you can draw your own\nconclusions by looking at the customs, artifacts, the cerimonial dress, the\ndocrine of purgatory, etc from the vantage of the mysteries. You don't even\nhave to be a believer to see the parallels. Just one example. THe mitre. \nWhere did it come from? Why is it shaped the way it is? What are the two\ntails that hang down the back represent? Was this an ancient head dress from\nan earlier culture and why was it in Rome at the time of the beginnings of the\nchurch of the State of Rome? Does it have pagan history behind it, and if so,\nwhy did the RCC chose regardless?\n\nAny lay person of middle eastern religion can answer these questions. Even the\nscriptures themselves refer to it. All Hislop did was collect the information\nfrom all the various sources and put them in one binding. There is no lack of\nscholorship in that.\n\nPlease tell me why you discredit this man by your accusation, yet present no\nevidence supporting it. ", "\nAlways has been??????\n\nEven before he was even conceived of? That's a neat trick.\n\nAlways will be??????\n\nWe leave a lot of room for error don't we.\n\nHopefully I missed an earlier post that this was with regard to otherwise ...\nwell I leave that to the individual to fill in but I will say what about\nGehrig! (shortened and not capitalized for the ease of the reader)\n", "Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the\nkingdom of heaven. ", "\nWell, if they were Satanists, or followers of an obscure religion,\nthen I would be sure that Christians would in unison condemn and \nmake this to a show case. But when we are dealing with a fanatical\nRevelation preacher that kills ultimately everyone, including the\ninnocent children, then it seems that we are dealing with Christians \nand christians (note the spelling).\n \n\nAnd does not this show the dangers with religion -- in order \nword a mind virus that will make mothers capable of letting\ntheir small children burn to ashes while they scream?\n\nCheers,\nKent", "\n: > Sure it isn't mutually exclusive, but it lends weight to (i.e. increases\n: > notional running estimates of the posterior probability of) the \n: > atheist's pitch in the partition, and thus necessarily reduces the same \n: > quantity in the theist's pitch. This is because the `divine component' \n: > falls prey to Ockham's Razor, the phenomenon being satisfactorily \n: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n: > explained without it, and there being no independent evidence of any \n: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n: > such component. More detail in the next post.\n: > \n\nOccam's Razor is not a law of nature, it is way of analyzing an\nargument, even so, it interesting how often it's cited here and to\nwhat end. \nIt seems odd that religion is simultaneously condemned as being\nprimitive, simple-minded and unscientific, anti-intellectual and\nchildish, and yet again condemned as being too complex (Occam's\nrazor), the scientific explanation of things being much more\nstraightforeward and, apparently, simpler. Which is it to be - which\nis the \"non-essential\", and how do you know?\nConsidering that even scientists don't fully comprehend science due to\nits complexity and diversity. Maybe William of Occam has performed a\nlobotomy, kept the frontal lobe and thrown everything else away ...\n\nThis is all very confusing, I'm sure one of you will straighten me out\ntough.", "From article <1993Apr23.153005.8237@starbase.trincoll.edu>, by ():\n\n\nSo out of the numerous baptists that you hang around with you haven't\nseen any of the above behavior? Which trait (stocking food for more\nthan a week, or owning a firearm) is the definition of a cult? What\nproof ( aside from David's aquittal ) leads you to believe that any\n\"banging/marrying\" of thirteen year olds was going on? Does your\nwife know that you equate 'marriage' with 'banging'?\n\n\nSince this guy doesn't like the concept of freedom of religion, he's\ngoing to insult you AND your mom!\n\n\nSociopath - person with asocial or antisocial beahavior.\nSociopaths - 200 persons, all who can't stand other people, sharing\n the same ranch-house.\n\n ^^^---It all suddenly becomes clear.\n\nWhy does everyone discover the Net in the spring?", "\n\nThere are a lot of people running around saying \"God told me this\" and \n\"God told me that\" these days. Some people really have heard God, and others\nheard their glands. Mario Murrillo mentioned this in a sermon once. He\nsaid someone told him, \"The Lord gave me a song.\" He said that it was\nthe worst song he had ever heard.\n\n\"I know why he gave you that song,\" Murillo said, \"He didn't want it anymore.\"\n\nBut God does still speak to His people today, and the idea is contrary to the\nidea of a closed cannon. Ireneaus wrote about all the gifts of the Spirit\nin the church of His day (2nd and 3rd century) and he was one of the first\nto put forth a New Testament cannon, which was almost identical to the one\nwe have today. He believed in a closed cannon. \n\nMany prophets prophesied prophecies which were not recorded in the Scriptures.\nFor example, one prophet in Kings, whose name starts with an \"M\" who\nprophecied that the king would lose a battle. That is the only prophecy\nhe gave recorded in Scripture, and we no that he had given other prophecies\nbecause the king complained before he heard the prophecy, \"He never prophesies\nanything good about me.\" Yet only one little paragraph of all of his \nlifetime of prophecies are recorded in Scripture. There are numerous examples.\nBarnabas was a prophet, Acts says, before he was even sent out as an \napostle. Yet his writings are not recorded in Scripture. Only two of\nAgabus prophecies are mentioned in Scripture. He was already a prophet\nbefore he gave them. \n\nSo prophecy may be genuine and from God, but that does not make it \nScripture. \n\n\nI don't know about translations of Scripture, but I am familiar with \nprophecies that give applications for Scripture. There are also \nsimilar examples in the Bible. Several times Peter interprets prophecies\nin a seemingly prophetic way, for example, \"And his bishoprick let another\ntake\" concerning Judas office.\n\nA clearer example can be found in Matthew 24. Jesus is prophesying about\nwhat will happen before His return and He quotes a passage out of Joel\nabout the sun being darkened and the moon turning to blood. So Scriptural\nprophecy can be used in later prophecy. \n\nSometimes this sort of thing can cross over into being a word of knowledge,\nbut gifts of the Spirit seem to overlap. Words of knowledge and wisdom\ncan overlap. The word of knowledge and prophecy can overlap. \nInterpretation of tounges is very similar to prophecy. Healings are often\nconsidered miracles. So sometimes the distinction between gifts is a \nbit hazy. Imho, it doesn't usually matter that much if we are able to\nlabel a phenomenon, as long as we recognize them as the work of the \nSpirit, and use them according to His leading.", "[Several people were involved in trying to figure out who first used\nthe phrase \"God-shaped hole\". --clh]\n\n\"There is a God shaped vacuum in all of us\" (or something to that effect) is\ngenerally attributed to Blaise Pascal.\nWhat I want to know is how can you have a God shaped vacuum inside of you if\nGod is in fact infinite (or omnipresent)?\n\n=========================================================================", "\n\nAgain, you missed Jesus's point. If you read the surrounding passages\nyou would understand what Jesus means by \"life in the world.\" But\nas is, you bumbled around, asserted your standard axiom that the Bible is bunk,\nand came up with the wrong idea. Also, you do not know exactly\nwhat Jesus means by eternal life. \n\nBrian K., do you expect to jump in the middle of the quantum mechanics\nbook and understand Hermite polynomials having not read the surrounding\nmaterial? Why do you such with the Bible? For an idea what Jesus\nmeans by the world, look up references to it in your concordance. For\na good description, the whole Book of Ecclesiastes is game. For \neternal life, check out John 17:3, John 3:15-16. You will find that\neternal life is quite different than what you think. Eternal life\nstarts NOW--an infinitely high quality of life living in fellowship\nwith God.\n\n\n\nIf my diety exists, you would not just cease to exist. Jesus talks of\nhell in Luke 16:19-31. \n\n\n\n\nThe truth is, is that it is not some sort of magic spell. The truth\nis is that you do not understand it, and enjoy not understanding it.\n\n\n\nWrong again. Christianity is supposed to be relationship. You\ndo not even know what Christianity is and you are arguing against\nit.\n", "\nSays who? Other than a hear-say god.\n\n\nYou sure don't understand it.\n\n\nBill, I hereby award you the Golden Shovel Award for the biggist pile of\nbullshit I've seen in a whils. I'm afraid there's not a bit of religion in\nmacroevolution, and you've made a rather grand statement that Science can\nnot explain origins; to a large extent, it already has!\n", "I don't think the Book of Mormon was supposedly translated from Biblical \nHebrew. I've read that \"prophet Joseph Smith\" traslated the gold tablets \nfrom some sort of Egyptian-ish language. \nFormer Mormons, PLEASE post.", "Quotes from Our Daily Bread\n\nOur Daily Bread is a devotional help for spiritual growth. One can spend some\nten to fifteen minutes at most reading the daily portion of scriptures and a\nrelated short article that brings the scriptures alive in applying in today's\nsociety. It ends with a saying at the bottom. This article is a collection\nof these sayings.\n\nOur Daily Bread is one of the many ministries/services provided by Resources for\nBiblical Communication. It is FREE. To receive the literature, just write and\nask for it. The contact addresses are listed below. Write to Radio Bible Class.\n\nCopyright 1989 Radio Bible Class, Grand Rapids, Michigan 49555-0001\n\nCanada: Box 1622, Windsor, Ontario N9A 6Z7\nAustralia: Box 365, Ryde, 2112 NSW\nEurope: Box 1, Carnforth, Lancs., England LA5 9ES\nAfrica: Box 1652, Manzini, Swaziland\nAfrica: PMB 2010, Jos, Nigeria\nPhilippines: Box 288, Greenhills, 1502 Metro Manila\n\nSayings with related scriptures in December/January/February 89-90 issue of Our Daily Bread\n\nWhen God saves us, all our sins are forgiven, forgotten, forever!\nRomans 5:1-11\n\nLife with Christ is difficult; without Him it's hopeless.\nEcclesiastes 4:1-6\n\nIt's the sin we cover up that eventually brings us down.\nPsalm 19:7-14\n\nYou're not ready to live until you're ready to die.\nActs 21:1-14\n\nTrusting in God's power prevents panic.\nIsaiah 40:6-17\n\nThe Bible is a record of man's compete ruin in sin and God's compte remedy in Christ. - Barnhouse\n2 Timothy 3:10-17\n\nJesus can change the foulest sinners into the finest saints.\nEphesians 2:1-10\n\nThey witness best who witness with their lives.\nActs 4:23-33\n\nGod came to dwell with man that man might dwell with God.\nPhilippians 2:5-11\n\nA hurting person needs a helping hand, not an accusing finger.\nPsalm 109:1,2, 14-31\n\nWhat you decide about Jesus determines your destiny.\nJohn 20:24-29\n\nWe must go to sinners if we expect sinners to come to the Savior.\nRomans 1:8-15\n\nKnowing that God sees us brings both conviction and cofidence.\nJob 34:21-28\n\nGod's chastening is not cruel but corrective.\nHebrews 12:4-17\n\nWhen you think of all that's good, give thanks to God.\nPsalm 44:1-8\n\nMan's greatest goal: give glory to God.\n1 Peter 5:5-7\n\nGod loves every one of us as if there were but one of us to love.\nRomans 8:31-39\n\nOnly the bread of life can satisfy man's spiritual hunger.\nJohn 6:28-41\n\nConscience can be our compass if the word of God is our chart.\n1 Timothy 4:1-5\n\nSalvation is free, but you must receive it.\nIsaiah 55:1-5\n\nIf we're not as spiritual as we could be, we're not as spiritual as we should be.\n2 Timonty 1:1-7\n\nCircumstances do not make a man, they reveal what he's made of.\nMatthew 1:18-25\n\nMake room for Jesus in your heart, and he will make room for you in heaven.\nMatthew 2:1-18\n\nHeaven's choir came down to sing when heaven's king came down to save.\nLuke 2:1-20\n\nGod's highest gift awakens man's deepest gratitude.\nLuke 2:21-38\n\nServing the Lord is an investment that pays eternal dividends.\n1 Peter 4:12-19\n\nTime misspent is not lived but lost.\nPsalm 39:4-13\n\nThe measure of our love is the measure of our sacrifice.\n1 Peter 4:7-11\n\nGod requires faithfulness; God rewards with fruitfulness.\nLuke 19:11-27\n\nHow you spend time determines how you spend eternity.\nPsalm 90:1-12\n\nIf you aim for nothing, you're sure to hit it.\nDaniel 1:1-8\n\nThe Christian's future is as bright as the promises of God.\nPsalm 23\n\nChrist as Savior brings us peace with God; Christ as Lord brings the peace of God.\nColossians 1:13-20\n\nThey who only sample the word of God never acquire much of a tast for it.\nPsalm 119:97-104\n\nUnless one drinks now of the \"water of life\", he will thirst forever!\nRevelation 22:12-17\n\nA hyprocrite is a person who is not himself on Sunday.\nDaniel 6:1-10\n\nBe life long or short, its completeness depends on what it is lived for.\nEcclesiates 9:1-12\n\nGod loves you and me - let's love each other.\n2 Corinthians 13\n\nIt's always too soon to quit.\nGenesis 37:12-28\n\nThe character we build in this world we carry into the next.\nMatthew 7:24-29\n\nGod sends trials not to impair us but to improves us.\n2 Corinthians 4:8-18\n\nMarriage is either a holy wedlock or an unholy deadlock.\n2 Corinthians 5:11-18\n\nWe are adopted through God's grace to be adapted to God's use.\nGalatians 6:1-10\n\nOur children are watching: what we are speak louder than what we say.\nProverbs 31:10-31\n\nUnion with Christ is the basis for unity among believers.\nPsalm 133\n\nKeep out of your life all that would crowd Christ out of your heart.\nRomans 6:1-14\n\nDon't try to bear tomorrow's burdens with today's grace.\nMatthew 6:25-34\n\nPray as if everything depends on God; work as if everything depends on you.\n2 Kings 20:1-7\n\nSome convictions are nothing more than prejudices.\nGalatians 3:26-29\n\nUnless you velieve, you will not understand. - Augustine\nHebrews 11:1-6\n\nChrist is the only way to heaven; all other paths are detours to doom.\n2 Corinthians 4:1-7\n\nMany Christians are doing nothing, but no Christians have nothing to do!\nJohn 4:31-38\n\nWe bury the seed; God brings the harvest.\nIsaiah 55:8-13\n\nThe texture of eternity is woven on the looms of time.\nEcclesiastes 7:1-6\n\nIt's not just what we know about God but how we use what we know.\n1 Corinthians 8\n\nThe best way to avoid lying is to do nothing that needs to be concealed.\nActs 5:1-11\n\nGod transforms trials into blessing by surrounding them with His love and grace.\n2 Chronicles 20:1-4, 20-30\n\nConfessing your sins is no substitute for forsaking them.\nPsalm 51:1-10\n\nIf you shoot arrows of envy at others, you would yourself.\nPhilippians 1:12-18\n\nHe who has no vision of eternity doesn't know the value of time.\nEphesians 5:8-17\n\nHe who abandons himself to God will never be abandoned by God.\nPsalm 123\n\nNo danger can come so near the Christian that God is not nearer.\nPsalm 121\n\nMany a man lays down his life trying to lay up a fortune.\nMatthew 6:19-24\n\nGod's grace is infinite love expressing itself through infinite goodness.\nPhilippians 1:1-11\n\nOne way to do great things for Christ is to do little things for others.\nRomans 16:1-16\n\nYou rob yourself of being you when you try to do what others are meant to do.\nRomans 12:1-8\n\nDon't pretend to be what you don't intend to be.\nMatthew 23:1-15\n\nMeeting God in our trials is better than getting out of them.\nPsalm 42\n\nIf sinners are to escape God's judgement, God's people must point the way.\nMatthew 24:15-27\n\nIt's not a sin to get angry when you get angry at sin.\nJohn 2:13-22\n\nWe prepare for the darkness by learning to pray in the light.\n1 Samuel 2:1-10\n\nChristianity is not a way of doing certain things but a certain way of doing all things.\nEphesians 5:1-7\n\nBetter to know the truth and beware than to believe a lie and not care.\nJeremiah 28\n\nA true servant does not live to himself, for himself, or by himself.\nGenesis 13\n\nThose who do the most earthly good are those who are heavely mined.\nPhilippians 1:19-26\n\nA good marriage requires a determination to be married for good.\nGenesis 2:18-24\n\nIf you're looking for something to give your life to, look to the one who gave His life for you.\n1 Corinthians 3:1-11\n\nWhen we have nothing left but God, we discover that God is enough.\nPsalm 46\n\nGod is with us inthe darkness as surely as He is with us in the light.\n1 Peter 1:1-9\n\nSome people spend most of their life at the complaint counter.\n1 Thessalonians 5:12-22\n\nOf all creation, only man can say \"yes\" or \"no\" to God.\nGenesis 9:8-17\n\nThe most rewarding end in life is to know the life that never ends.\nEcclesiates 8:10-15\n\nOne of the marks of a well-fed soul is a well read Bible.\nJoshua1:1-9\n\nBecause God gives us all we need, we should give to those in need.\nProverbs 14:20-31\n\nIt's never too early to receive Christ, but at any moment it could be too late.\nLuke 16:19-31\n\nGod's grace keeps pace with whatever we face.\n2 Corinthians 12:7-10\n\nComing together is a beginning; keeping together is progress; working together is success.\n1 Corinthians 12:12-27\n\nWhen we give God our burdens, He gives us a song.\nPsalm 57\n\nDo the thing you fear, and the death of fear is certain. - Emerson\n1 Corinthians 2:1-8", "Archive-name: atheism/resources\nAlt-atheism-archive-name: resources\nLast-modified: 5 April 1993\nVersion: 1.1\n\n Atheist Resources\n\n Addresses of Atheist Organizations\n\n USA\n\nFREEDOM FROM RELIGION FOUNDATION\n\nDarwin fish bumper stickers and assorted other atheist paraphernalia are\navailable from the Freedom From Religion Foundation in the US.\n\nWrite to: FFRF, P.O. Box 750, Madison, WI 53701.\nTelephone: (608) 256-8900\n\nEVOLUTION DESIGNS\n\nEvolution Designs sell the \"Darwin fish\". It's a fish symbol, like the ones\nChristians stick on their cars, but with feet and the word \"Darwin\" written\ninside. The deluxe moulded 3D plastic fish is $4.95 postpaid in the US.\n\nWrite to: Evolution Designs, 7119 Laurel Canyon #4, North Hollywood,\n CA 91605.\n\nPeople in the San Francisco Bay area can get Darwin Fish from Lynn Gold --\ntry mailing . For net people who go to Lynn directly, the\nprice is $4.95 per fish.\n\nSET FREE\n\nAtheist stickers, T-shirts and books.\n\nWrite to: Set Free, P.O. Box 3065-192, Garden Grove, CA 92642.\n\nAMERICAN ATHEIST PRESS\n\nAAP publish various atheist books -- critiques of the Bible, lists of\nBiblical contradictions, and so on. One such book is:\n\n\"The Bible Handbook\" by W.P. Ball and G.W. Foote. American Atheist Press.\n372 pp. ISBN 0-910309-26-4, 2nd edition, 1986. Bible contradictions,\nabsurdities, atrocities, immoralities... contains Ball, Foote: \"The Bible\nContradicts Itself\", AAP. Based on the King James version of the Bible.\n\nWrite to: American Atheist Press, P.O. Box 140195, Austin, TX 78714-0195.\n or: 7215 Cameron Road, Austin, TX 78752-2973.\nTelephone: (512) 458-1244\nFax: (512) 467-9525\n\nPROMETHEUS BOOKS\n\nSell books including Haught's \"Holy Horrors\" (see below).\n\nWrite to: 700 East Amherst Street, Buffalo, New York 14215.\nTelephone: (716) 837-2475.\n\nAn alternate address (which may be newer or older) is:\nPrometheus Books, 59 Glenn Drive, Buffalo, NY 14228-2197.\n\nAFRICAN-AMERICANS FOR HUMANISM\n\nAn organization promoting black secular humanism and uncovering the history of\nblack freethought. They publish a quarterly newsletter, AAH EXAMINER.\n\nWrite to: Norm R. Allen, Jr., African Americans for Humanism, P.O. Box 664,\n Buffalo, NY 14226.\n\n United Kingdom\n\nRationalist Press Association National Secular Society\n88 Islington High Street 702 Holloway Road\nLondon N1 8EW London N19 3NL\n071 226 7251 071 272 1266\n\nBritish Humanist Association South Place Ethical Society\n14 Lamb's Conduit Passage Conway Hall\nLondon WC1R 4RH Red Lion Square\n071 430 0908 London WC1R 4RL\nfax 071 430 1271 071 831 7723\n\nThe National Secular Society publish \"The Freethinker\", a monthly magazine\nfounded in 1881.\n\n Germany\n\nIBKA e.V.\nInternationaler Bund der Konfessionslosen und Atheisten\nPostfach 880, D-1000 Berlin 41. Germany.\n\nIBKA publish a journal:\nMIZ. (Materialien und Informationen zur Zeit. Politisches\nJournal der Konfessionslosesn und Atheisten. Hrsg. IBKA e.V.)\nMIZ-Vertrieb, Postfach 880, D-1000 Berlin 41. Germany.\n\nFor atheist books, write to:\n\nIBDK, Internationaler B\"ucherdienst der Konfessionslosen\nPostfach 3005, D-3000 Hannover 1. Germany.\nTelephone: 0511/211216\n\n\n Books -- Fiction\n\nTHOMAS M. DISCH\n\n\"The Santa Claus Compromise\"\nShort story. The ultimate proof that Santa exists. All characters and \nevents are fictitious. Any similarity to living or dead gods -- uh, well...\n\nWALTER M. MILLER, JR\n\n\"A Canticle for Leibowitz\"\nOne gem in this post atomic doomsday novel is the monks who spent their lives\ncopying blueprints from \"Saint Leibowitz\", filling the sheets of paper with\nink and leaving white lines and letters.\n\nEDGAR PANGBORN\n\n\"Davy\"\nPost atomic doomsday novel set in clerical states. The church, for example,\nforbids that anyone \"produce, describe or use any substance containing...\natoms\". \n\nPHILIP K. DICK\n\nPhilip K. Dick Dick wrote many philosophical and thought-provoking short \nstories and novels. His stories are bizarre at times, but very approachable.\nHe wrote mainly SF, but he wrote about people, truth and religion rather than\ntechnology. Although he often believed that he had met some sort of God, he\nremained sceptical. Amongst his novels, the following are of some relevance:\n\n\"Galactic Pot-Healer\"\nA fallible alien deity summons a group of Earth craftsmen and women to a\nremote planet to raise a giant cathedral from beneath the oceans. When the\ndeity begins to demand faith from the earthers, pot-healer Joe Fernwright is\nunable to comply. A polished, ironic and amusing novel.\n\n\"A Maze of Death\"\nNoteworthy for its description of a technology-based religion.\n\n\"VALIS\"\nThe schizophrenic hero searches for the hidden mysteries of Gnostic\nChristianity after reality is fired into his brain by a pink laser beam of\nunknown but possibly divine origin. He is accompanied by his dogmatic and\ndismissively atheist friend and assorted other odd characters.\n\n\"The Divine Invasion\"\nGod invades Earth by making a young woman pregnant as she returns from\nanother star system. Unfortunately she is terminally ill, and must be\nassisted by a dead man whose brain is wired to 24-hour easy listening music.\n\nMARGARET ATWOOD\n\n\"The Handmaid's Tale\"\nA story based on the premise that the US Congress is mysteriously\nassassinated, and fundamentalists quickly take charge of the nation to set it\n\"right\" again. The book is the diary of a woman's life as she tries to live\nunder the new Christian theocracy. Women's right to own property is revoked,\nand their bank accounts are closed; sinful luxuries are outlawed, and the\nradio is only used for readings from the Bible. Crimes are punished\nretroactively: doctors who performed legal abortions in the \"old world\" are\nhunted down and hanged. Atwood's writing style is difficult to get used to\nat first, but the tale grows more and more chilling as it goes on.\n\nVARIOUS AUTHORS\n\n\"The Bible\"\nThis somewhat dull and rambling work has often been criticized. However, it\nis probably worth reading, if only so that you'll know what all the fuss is\nabout. It exists in many different versions, so make sure you get the one\ntrue version.\n\n Books -- Non-fiction\n\nPETER DE ROSA\n\n\"Vicars of Christ\", Bantam Press, 1988\nAlthough de Rosa seems to be Christian or even Catholic this is a very\nenlighting history of papal immoralities, adulteries, fallacies etc.\n(German translation: \"Gottes erste Diener. Die dunkle Seite des Papsttums\",\nDroemer-Knaur, 1989)\n\nMICHAEL MARTIN\n\n\"Atheism: A Philosophical Justification\", Temple University Press,\n Philadelphia, USA.\nA detailed and scholarly justification of atheism. Contains an outstanding\nappendix defining terminology and usage in this (necessarily) tendentious\narea. Argues both for \"negative atheism\" (i.e. the \"non-belief in the\nexistence of god(s)\") and also for \"positive atheism\" (\"the belief in the\nnon-existence of god(s)\"). Includes great refutations of the most\nchallenging arguments for god; particular attention is paid to refuting\ncontempory theists such as Platinga and Swinburne.\n541 pages. ISBN 0-87722-642-3 (hardcover; paperback also available)\n\n\"The Case Against Christianity\", Temple University Press\nA comprehensive critique of Christianity, in which he considers\nthe best contemporary defences of Christianity and (ultimately)\ndemonstrates that they are unsupportable and/or incoherent.\n273 pages. ISBN 0-87722-767-5\n\nJAMES TURNER\n\n\"Without God, Without Creed\", The Johns Hopkins University Press, Baltimore,\n MD, USA\nSubtitled \"The Origins of Unbelief in America\". Examines the way in which\nunbelief (whether agnostic or atheistic) became a mainstream alternative\nworld-view. Focusses on the period 1770-1900, and while considering France\nand Britain the emphasis is on American, and particularly New England\ndevelopments. \"Neither a religious history of secularization or atheism,\nWithout God, Without Creed is, rather, the intellectual history of the fate\nof a single idea, the belief that God exists.\" \n316 pages. ISBN (hardcover) 0-8018-2494-X (paper) 0-8018-3407-4\n\nGEORGE SELDES (Editor)\n\n\"The great thoughts\", Ballantine Books, New York, USA\nA \"dictionary of quotations\" of a different kind, concentrating on statements\nand writings which, explicitly or implicitly, present the person's philosophy\nand world-view. Includes obscure (and often suppressed) opinions from many\npeople. For some popular observations, traces the way in which various\npeople expressed and twisted the idea over the centuries. Quite a number of\nthe quotations are derived from Cardiff's \"What Great Men Think of Religion\"\nand Noyes' \"Views of Religion\".\n490 pages. ISBN (paper) 0-345-29887-X.\n\nRICHARD SWINBURNE\n\n\"The Existence of God (Revised Edition)\", Clarendon Paperbacks, Oxford\nThis book is the second volume in a trilogy that began with \"The Coherence of\nTheism\" (1977) and was concluded with \"Faith and Reason\" (1981). In this\nwork, Swinburne attempts to construct a series of inductive arguments for the\nexistence of God. His arguments, which are somewhat tendentious and rely\nupon the imputation of late 20th century western Christian values and\naesthetics to a God which is supposedly as simple as can be conceived, were\ndecisively rejected in Mackie's \"The Miracle of Theism\". In the revised\nedition of \"The Existence of God\", Swinburne includes an Appendix in which he\nmakes a somewhat incoherent attempt to rebut Mackie.\n\nJ. L. MACKIE\n\n\"The Miracle of Theism\", Oxford\nThis (posthumous) volume contains a comprehensive review of the principal\narguments for and against the existence of God. It ranges from the classical\nphilosophical positions of Descartes, Anselm, Berkeley, Hume et al, through\nthe moral arguments of Newman, Kant and Sidgwick, to the recent restatements\nof the classical theses by Plantinga and Swinburne. It also addresses those\npositions which push the concept of God beyond the realm of the rational,\nsuch as those of Kierkegaard, Kung and Philips, as well as \"replacements for\nGod\" such as Lelie's axiarchism. The book is a delight to read - less\nformalistic and better written than Martin's works, and refreshingly direct\nwhen compared with the hand-waving of Swinburne.\n\nJAMES A. HAUGHT\n\n\"Holy Horrors: An Illustrated History of Religious Murder and Madness\",\n Prometheus Books\nLooks at religious persecution from ancient times to the present day -- and\nnot only by Christians.\nLibrary of Congress Catalog Card Number 89-64079. 1990.\n\nNORM R. ALLEN, JR.\n\n\"African American Humanism: an Anthology\"\nSee the listing for African Americans for Humanism above.\n\nGORDON STEIN\n\n\"An Anthology of Atheism and Rationalism\", Prometheus Books\nAn anthology covering a wide range of subjects, including 'The Devil, Evil\nand Morality' and 'The History of Freethought'. Comprehensive bibliography.\n\nEDMUND D. COHEN\n\n\"The Mind of The Bible-Believer\", Prometheus Books\nA study of why people become Christian fundamentalists, and what effect it\nhas on them.\n\nGEORGE H. SMITH\n\n\"Atheism: The Case Against God\", Prometheus Books\nDescribes the positions of atheism, theism and agnosticism. Reviews many \nof the arguments used in favour of the existence of God. Concludes with an\nassessment of the impact of God on people's lives.\n\n Net Resources\n\nThere's a small mail-based archive server at mantis.co.uk which carries\narchives of old alt.atheism.moderated articles and assorted other files. For\nmore information, send mail to archive-server@mantis.co.uk saying\n\n help\n send atheism/index\n\nand it will mail back a reply.\n", "\nActually, the idea, like most good ideas, comes from Jules Verne, not\n_The Gods Must Be Crazy._ In one of his lesser known books (I can't\nremember which one right now), the protagonists are in a balloon gondola,\ntravelling over Africa on their way around the world in the balloon, when\none of them drops a fob watch. They then speculate about the reaction\nof the natives to finding such a thing, dropped straight down from heaven.\nBut the notion is not pursued further than that.", "<< < For example: why does the universe exist at all? \n\n>> Imagine that 1000000 Alterian dollars turn up in your bank account every\n#>>> month. Suppose further that this money is being paid to you by (a) your \n#>>> big-hearted Alterian benefactor, or (b) a bug in an Alterian ATM. Let's\n#>>> suppose that this is a true dichotomy, so P(a)+P(b)=1. Trouble is, Alterius \n#>>> is in a different universe, so that no observations of Alterius are possible\n#>>> (except for the banks - you couldn't possibly afford it ;-)\n#>>> \n#>>> Now let's examine the case for (a). There is no evidence whatsoever that\n#>>> there is any such thing as a big-hearted Alterian benefactor. However,\n#>>> P(exists(b-h A b)) + P(not(exists(b-h A b)) = 1. On the grounds that \n#>>> lack_of_evidence_for is evidence_against when we have a partition like\n#>>> that, we dismiss hypothesis (a).\n#>>>\n#>>> Turning, therefore, to (b), we also find no evidence to support that\n#>>> hypothesis. On the same grounds as before, we dismiss hypothesis (b).\n#>>>\n#>>> The problem with this is that we have dismissed *all* of the possible\n#>>> hypotheses, and even though we know by construction that the money \n#>>> arrives every month, we have proven that it can't, because we\n#>>> have dismissed all of its potential causes.\n#\n#>> That's an *extremely* poor argument, and here's why.\n#>>\n#>> Premise 1: \"...this money is being paid to you by [either] (a) your big-\n#>> hearted Alterian benefactor, or (b) a bug in an Alterian ATM\".\n#>> \n#>> Thus each monthly appearance of the bucks, should it happen, is an\n#>> observation on Alterius, and by construction, is evidence for the\n#>> existence of [either the benefactor or the bug in the ATM].\n#>> \n#>> Premise 2: no observations on Alterius are possible.\n#\n#> #> (except for the banks - you couldn't possibly afford it ;-)\n#>\n#> You forgot to include this. My premise is actually:\n#>\n#> Premise 2: The cardinality of the set of possible observations on Alterius\n#> is one.\n#\n#>> This is clearly contradictory to the first.\n#\n#> Not if you state it properly.\n#\n#>> Trouble is, on the basis of premise 2, you say that there can be no evidence\n#>> of [either the benefactor or the bug], but the first premise leads to the\n#>> conclusion that the appearance of the bucks, should it happen, is evidence\n#>> for the existence of [either the benefactor or the bug].\n#>> \n#>> Voila, a screaming contradiction.\n#\n#[with my highlights - SC]\n#> But in a strawman argument. There is only evidence for OneOf(Benefactor,Bug).\n#> No observation to distinguish Benefactor from Bug is possible. That is\n#> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n#> not evidence for Bug, and neither is it evidence for Benefactor. Nor\n#> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n#> is true to say that this hypothetical universe appears exactly as\n#> if there were no Benefactor/Bug (two statements, both would be false).\n#\n#This is still contradictory. It reduces to\n#\n# (1): Alterian dosh arriving in my account is due to [benefactor or bug].\n#\n# (2): this is not evidence for [benefactor], neither is it evidence for\n# [bug] (meaning that it doesn't lend more weight to one than to the\n# other)\n#\n# (3): therefore no evidence can exist for [benefactor] and no evidence\n# can exist for [bug].\n#\n#But (3) relies on a shift in meaning from (2). When you say (paraphrased)\n#in (2) that this is not \"evidence for [benefactor]\", for example, what you\n#mean is that it's no *more* evidence for [benefactor] than it is for [bug].\n\nYes, that's what I mean.\n\n#In (3), however, you've shifted the meaning of \"evidence for [benefactor]\"\n#so that it now means `absolute' \"evidence for [benefactor]\" rather than\n#`relative' \"evidence for [benefactor]\" w.r.t. [bug].\n\nNot really, I meant evidence that would tend to one over the other. I\nthink this is just a communications problem. What I am trying to say,\nin my clumsy way, is that while I buy your theory as far as it relates\nto theism making predictions (prayer, your 'Rapture' example), I don't\nbuy your use of Occam's razor in all cases where A=0.\n\nIn my example, one couldn't dismiss\n[benefactor] or [bug] on the grounds of simplicity - one of these is necessary\nto explain the dosh. I brought up the 'one-by-one dismissal' process to\nshow that it would be wrong to do so. From what you're saying in this\npost, it seems you agree, and we're talking at cross-purposes.\n\n#(3) is still in contradiction to (1).\n#\n#Some sums may help. With B = benefactor, b = bug, d = dosh arrives in account:\n#\n# (1) implies P(B+b | d) = 1\n#\n#Assuming that P(Bb | d) = 0, so it's either the benefactor *or* a bug\n#which is responsible if the bucks arrive, but not both, then\n#\n# P(B+b | d) = P(B | d) + P(b | d)\n#\n#so\n#\n# P(B | d) + P(b | d) = 1\n#\n#but (3) implies that\n#\n# P(B | d) = 0 and P(b | d) = 0.\n\nNo, this isn't what I meant. P(B | d) = 0.5 and P(b | d) = 0.5, with\nnecessarily no new observation (we've already seen the dosh) to change\nthose estimates. I was trying to say (again, in my clumsy way) that\nit would be _wrong_ to assign 0 probability to either of these. And that's\nprecisely what use of the Razor does in the case of gods - gods are\none class of hypothesis (there are many others) belonging to a set of\nhypotheses _one_of_which_ is necessary to explain something which otherwise \nwould _not_ be satisfactorily explained. It can be thrown out or\nretained on grounds of non-rational preference, not of science or statistics. \nAlternatively, one could chuck out or retain the lot, on the grounds\nthat the answer can't be known, or that the notional probability estimates\nare effectively useless, being equal (agnosticism/weak atheism).\n\n#> As they do when the set M is filled by \"the universe is caused by x\",\n#> where x is gods, pink unicorns, nothing, etc. - and no observation\n#> tends to one conclusion over the other.\n#\n#Exactly the point I was making, I think. So we don't \"throw out\" any of\n#these, contrary to your assertion above that we do.\n\nSome people do, Simon, and they think they are doing excellent science.\nMy sole point was that they aren't.\n\n#>> Only observations which directly contradict the hypothesis H[i] (i.e. x\n#>> where P(x | H[i]) = 0) can cause P(H[i]) to go to zero after a finite\n#>> number of observations. Only in this case do we get to throw any of the\n#>> hypotheses out.\n#\n#> Exactly my point, though I may have been unclear.\n#\n#You said the diametric opposite, which I guess is the source of my confusion.\n\nI was merely trying to illustrate the incorrectness of doing so.\n\n#> What I'm trying to say is that while you are correct to say that absence of\n#> evidence can sometimes be evidence of absence, this does not hold true for\n#> all, or perhaps any, versions of theism - and it isn't true that those for\n#> which it does not hold can be discarded using the razor.\n#\n#On the contrary, those for which it does not hold are *exactly* those which\n#can be discarded using the Razor. See my post on the other branch of this\n#thread.\n\nThen you seem to be guilty of the contradiction you accuse me of. If\nthe razor holds for gods, then it holds for all like hypotheses. Which\nmeans that you're assigning P(x | H[i]) =0 for all i, though we've already\nestablished that it's not correct to do so when SUM(P(x|H[i]))=1 over\nall i.\n\n#> Simply put, anyone who claims to have a viable proof of the existence or\n#> non-existence of gods, whether inductive or no, is at best mistaken, and\n#> at worst barking mad.\n#\n#Luckily I make no such claim, and have specifically said as much on numerous\n#occasions. You wouldn't be constructing a strawman here, would you Frank?\n#Although that doesn't, of course, rule out my being barking mad in any case\n#(I could be barking mad in my spare time, with apologies to Cleese et al).\n#\n#But I think you miss the point once again. When I say that something is\n#\"evidence against\" an hypothesis, that doesn't imply that observation of\n#the said something necessarily *falsifies* the hypothesis, reducing the\n#estimate of P(H | data) to zero. If it *reduces* this quantity, it's still\n#evidence against H.\n\nNo, I got that. I'm talking about the case when A=0. You're clearly\ncorrect when A!=0. And I'm not constructing a strawman (though it's\ncertainly possible that I've misunderstood what you're saying). However,\nby any standards, a system that says when A=0, gods are highly unlikely,\nand when A!=0 gods can be dismissed using the Razor, is a system purporting\nto be an inductive proof that gods either don't exist, or are unnecessary\nto explain any or all phenomena. In my experience, systems such as this\n(including those which purport to prove that gods exist) always contain\na fallacy upon close examination. If that's not what you're saying, then\nplease put me straight.", "\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nSo you believe in the existance of One creator I assume.\n\n\n\nOk, god has the disclaimer, reserves the right to judge individual\ncases. If we believe him to be loving, then we also believe him to be\nable to serve justice to all. Don't worry if a Jew, or athiest is\ngoing to heaven or hell, for that is god to judge (although truly\nif you were concerned you could only worry abput those who refuse to\nbelieve/satisfy gods decrees) as much as keeping yourself straight.\nIf you see something going on that is wrong, discuss it and explore it\nbefore making summary judgement. People have enough free will to choose\nfor themselves, so don't force choices on them, just inform them\nof what they're choices are. God will take care of the rest in his justice.\n", "\n\n I question the implications of this statement; namely, that there are certain\nphysical acts which are limited to God and that attempting to replicate these\nacts is blasphemy against God. God caused a bush to burn without being\nconsumed--if I do the same thing, am I usurping God's role? \n Religious people are threatened by science because it has been systematically\nremoving the physical \"proofs\" of God's existence. As time goes on we have to\nrely more and more on faith and the spiritual world to relate to God becuase\nscience is removing our props. I don't think this is a bad thing.", "I've heard it said that the accounts we have of Christs life and\nministry in the Gospels were actually written many years after the event.\n(About 40 years or so). Is this correct?? If so, why the big time delay??\nI know all scripture is inspired of God, so the time of writing is I suppose\nun-important, but I still can't help be curious!\n\n---------------------------------------------------\nIvan Thomas Barr \n\nContact me at u9126619@athmail1.causeway.qub.ac.uk\n\n[The Gospels aren't dated, so we can only guess. Luke's prolog is\nabout the only thing we have from the author describing his process.\nThe prolog sounds like Luke is from the next generation, and had to do\nsome investigating. There are traditions passed down verbally that\nsay a few things about the composition of the Gospels. There are\ndebates about how reliable these traditions are. They certainly don't\nhave the status of Scripture, yet scholars tend to take some of them\nseriously. One suggests that Mark was based on Peter's sermons, and\nwas written to preserve them when Peter had died or way about to die.\nOne tradition about Matthew suggests that a collection of Jesus words\nmay have been made earlier than the current Gospels. \n\nIn the ancient world, it was much more common to rely on verbal\ntransmission of information. I think many people would have preferred\nto hear about Jesus directly from someone who had known him, and maybe\neven from someone who studied directly under such a person, rather\nthan from a book. Thus I suspect that the Gospels are largely from a\nperiod when these people were beginning to die. Scholars generally do\nthink there was some written material earlier, which was probably used\nas sources for the existing Gospels.\n\nEstablishing the dates is a complex and technical business. I have to\nconfess that I'm not sure how much reliance I'd put on the methods\nused. But it's common to think that Mark was written first, around 64\nAD., and that all of the Gospels were written by the end of the\nCentury. A few people vary this by a decade or so one way or the\nother.", "\n On Palm Sunday at our parish, we were \"invited\" to take the role of\nJesus in the Passion. I declined to participate. Last year at the\nliturgy meeting I pointed out how we crucify Christ by our sins, so\ntherefore it is appropriate that we retain the role of the crowd, but\nto no avail.\n\n\n As a member of a liturgy committee, I can tell you that the problem\nis certain people dominating, who want to try out all kinds of\ninnovations. The priests don't seem even to _want_ to make any\ndecisions of their own in many cases. I guess it's easier to \"try\nsomething new\" than it is to refuse to allow it.\n\n At our parish on Holy Thursday, instead of the priests washing feet\n(\"Who wants to get around people's feet,\" according to one of our\npriests) the congregation was \"invited\" to come up and help wash one\nanother's hands.\n\n The symbolism of this action distressed me, and again I refused to\nparticipate. I thought that if we were to have to come up with\nrubrics for this liturgical action (i.e. \"Body of Christ\" -- \"Amen\"\nfor receiving Communion), that they could be \"I am not responsible for\nthe blood of this man.\"\n\n Also for part of the Eucharistic Prayer (\"Blessed are You, God of\nall creation...\") was substituted some text read by a lay couple. The\npriest certainly should not have given this part of the Mass over to\nothers, and I was so disturbed that I declined to receive Communion\nthat night (we aren't required to anyway -- I instead offered up\nprayers for our priests and parish).\n\n\n The quality of the Mass has not changed. Again, if it were to be\ncelebrated according to the rubrics set down by the Church, it would\nstill be \"liturgically\" beautiful. The problem comes about from\npeople trying to be \"creative\" who are not.\n\n I think the answer to your question on participation could be that\ngiven by Father Peter Stravinskas in answer to the question posed by\nthe title of Thomas Day's _Why Catholics Can't Sing_. \"They don't\nwant to\" because of all this nonsense.\n\n By the way, for any non-Catholics reading this, the problem does\nnot reflect bad liturgy by the Catholic Church, but by those who are\ndisobedient to the Church in changing it on their own \"authority.\"", "\n\n\nYes. I cannot remeber which works I read about this in, as it was many \nyears ago. This ritual was called The Tarobaullum I believe, (The \nspelling may be off).\n\nPope Charles\n", "Meng,\n\nI have a better prayer:\n\nDear God,\n\n Please save the world from the likes of these!!!", "The recent rise of nostalgia in this group, combined with the\n incredible level of utter bullshit, has prompted me to comb\n through my archives and pull out some of \"The Best of Alt.Atheism\"\n for your reading pleasure. I'll post a couple of these a day\n unless group concensus demands that I stop, or I run out of good\n material.\n\n I haven't been particularly careful in the past about saving\n attributions. I think the following comes from John A. Johnson,\n but someone correct me if I'm wrong. This is probably the longest\n of my entire collection.\n\n________________________________________________________\n\n\n So that the\n Prophecy be\n Fulfilled\n\n * * *\n\n In considering the Christian religion, and judging it\naccording to its claims, it is important to look at its claims at\nfulfilling earlier Jewish prophecy. The scribe Matthew is perhaps\nthe most eager to draw out what he thinks are prophetic answers in\nthe career of Jesus of Nazareth. As you will see, Matthew's main\nstrategy is to take various Old Testament passages, often not even\nabout the promised Messiah, and apply them to the circumstances in\nthe New Testament. We must also bear in mind the question of the\nauthenticity of the accounts. Since the gospels were written at\nleast 35 years after Jesus was executed, we do not know how much\nhappened exactly as stated. But, for purposes of analysis, we\nwill take particular claims at face value.\n\nImmanuel:\n\n We begin, of course, at the beginning.\n\n (Mt 1.21-22): \"[Mary] will bear a son, and you,\n Joseph, will name him 'Jesus' (which means G'd is\n salvation), for he will save his people from their\n sins.\" All this happened to fulfil what the lord had\n spoken by a prophet:\n\n [Isaiah 7.1-16]: In the days of Ahaz (c. 750 BCE),\n king of Judah, Rezin of Syria and Pekah of Israel made\n war on Jerusalem (capitol of Judah), but could not\n quite conquer it. When the house of David (i.e. Ahaz\n and his court in Judah) were told of this, ...its\n heart and the heart of its people shook... And, the\n lord G'd said to Isaiah, \"go to meet with Ahaz...\" \n ...And the lord spoke to Ahaz (through prophet Isaiah,\n naturally) saying, \"Ask a sign of G'd your lord. It\n can be as deep as Sheol or as high as heaven.\" But,\n Ahaz said, \"I won't ask; I will not put the lord to a\n test.\" Then (Isaiah) said, \"Hear then, O house of\n David. Is it not enough for you to weary men, that\n you must weary my god too? Therefore, the lord\n himself will give you a sign: Behold, a young woman\n is with child and will bear a son, and name him\n \"Immanuel,\" which means, \"G'd is with us.\" He will\n eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse evil\n and choose good. For, before the child knows how to\n refuse evil and choose good, the land of the two kings\n you dread will have been deserted...\n\nMatthew homes in on just the sentence that is in italics. \nFurther, he the Hebrew word \"almah,\" (young woman), as\nspecifically, \"virgin.\" But, this is not a prophecy about the\nMessiah. It is not a prophecy about an event to happen 750 years\nlater. It is not a prophecy about a virgin (bethulah) mother. In\nshort, it not about Jesus. Matthew has made use of a verse out of\ncontext, and tries to make it fit the specific case of Mary. It\nshould be noted that if we want to read the prophecy in a general\nmanner, a very general one, it can be made to fit Mary. Mary,\nvirgin or not, was indeed a young woman with child. Of course,\nthe fit is shady and has problems. Jesus, while thought of by\nlater Christians to be G'd walking among men, was never called by\nthe name, Immanuel. If Christianity wished to claim this prophecy\nfor Jesus, it becomes at best a cut-and-paste prophecy... a second\nclass prophecy. Not too convincing.\n\nEgypt:\n\n After Jesus's birth in Bethlehem, Matthew tells about a\nquick (and elsewhere unmentioned) excursion to Egypt, as if he\nwishes to liken Jesus to Moses. This was done to escape an\nalleged infanticidal rampage of the king, Herod.\n\n [Mt 2.15] ...and remained there until the death of\n Herod. This was to fulfil what the lord had spoken:\n \"Out of Egypt I have cal-led my son.\"\n\n\nWhat the lord really said was this.\n\n [Hosea 11.1] When Israel was a child, I loved him. \n And, out of Egypt I called my son. The more I called\n them (my people), the more they went from me; they\n kept sacrificing to the Ba'als, and kept burning\n incense to idols.\n\nMatthew conveniently omits the rest of Hosea's oracle. But, it\nwas indeed Israel that, once called out of Egypt, wanted to\nreturn. This is history. Jesus is certainly not being spoken of\nhere. And, if we are to draw some kind of parallel here, we wind\nup with a Jesus that flees and resists G'd. Again, this prophecy\nis just not as convincing as Matthew probably had hoped.\n\nRachel Weeps:\n\n While Jesus is off vacationing in Egypt, Matthew says that\nKing Herod sought to kill him, and thus ordered the executions of\nall young male children. Matthew then writes,\n\n [Mt 2.17-18] By this, that which was spoken by the\n prophet Jeremiah was fulfilled:\n\n \"A voice was heard in Ramah, wailing and loud\n lamentation-- Rachel weeping for her children;\n she refused to be consoled, because they were\n no more.\" \n\nThe reference is to a passage in Jeremiah 31.15, referring to the\ncarrying off of Israel into exile by Sargon (of Assyria) in 722\nBCE. Rachel, the ancestor of the major tribes of Israel, Ephraim,\nand Manasseh, is said to weep for her descendants who are \"no\nmore.\" It is metaphorical, of course, since Rachel lived and dies\nbefore the Hebrews were even in the Egyptian exile.\n It is interesting to note that it was Leah, not Rachel, who\nwas the ancestor of the Judeans (the land where Jesus and\nBethlehem were). If anyone should do weeping for her \"children,\"\nit is Leah. The only connexion that Rachel has with Bethlehem is\nthat the legends have it that she was buried north of the city,\n\"on the way to Ephrath, (Bethlehem).\"\n As for Herod and his infanticide, it is rather unlikely\nthat such an event actually occurred. One never knows, but the\nevent is not mentioned or alluded to anywhere else in the Bible,\nnor is it mentioned in any of the secular records of the time. \nHerod was particularly unliked in his reign, and many far less\nevil deeds of Herod were carefully recorded. This might be a\nprime example of how events were added to Jesus's life to enhance\nthe message of the church's gospel.\n Because of the whole story's similarity to the tale of the\ninfant Moses in Egypt, it is highly likely that it is a device set\nup by Matthew to add prophetic, yet artificial, approval of Jesus.\nIt is not surprising that Matthew conveniently neglects to mention\nthe rest of the Jeremiah quote. The \"children\" the prophet\nspeaks of are not dead, but exiled in the Assyrian Empire. G'd\ncomforts the weeping Rachel, saying that the children will be\nreturned-- he will gather them back together. Of course, this\nwould not suit Matthew's purpose, as the children he speaks of are\ndead for good. Again, the \"prophecy\" Matthew sets up is not even\nthat, and to anyone who bothers to check it out, is not too\nconvincing.\n\nThe Nazarene:\n\n We do not even have to go to the next chapter to find\nanother Matthean prophecy. After leaving Egypt, Joseph & wife\ntake the infant Jesus to live in the city of Nazareth, \n\n [Mt 2.23] ...that what was spoken of by the prophets\n might be fulfilled, \"He shall be called a Nazarene.\"\n\nFirst thing we notice is that Matthew does not mention the name of\nthe prophet(s) this time. Second, we have to ask who \"He\" is. \nThere are no Messianic prophecies speaking of a Nazarene. Worse,\nthere are no prophecies, period, mentioning a Nazarene. Still\nworse, there are no Nazarenes mentioned in the Old Testament at\nall. In the book of Judges, an angel tells Samson's mother that\nshe will,\n\n [Judges 13.5] \"...conceive and bear a son. No razor\n shall tough his head, for he will be a Nazirite to his\n god from the day of his birth. He will deliver Israel\n from the hands of the Philistines.\"\n\nThis is of course not a prophecy of Jesus, or the messiah of G'd. \nBut, it is the best that can be found. Obviously, Matthew has\nbegun to go overboard in cut-and-paste prophecies, in that he is\nsimple making them up now.\n\nBearing our\nDiseases:\n\n Jesus next goes around healing people of physical illnesses\nand disabilities.\n\n [Mt 8.17] This was to fulfil what was spoken by the\n prophet Isaiah, \"He took our infirmities and bore our\n diseases.\"\n\nAs expected, the verse quoted in Isaiah is quoted out of context,\nand a few words are skewed to fit the Christian scheme. We have,\n\n [Is 53.4] Surely he, [the suffering servant], has\n borne our sickness, and carried our pains.\n\nFrom a reading of the surrounding passages in Isaiah, we know that\nthe prophet is speaking in present tense of the collective nation\nof Israel, Jehovah's chosen servant and people. He speaks to the\nIsraelites suffering in exile, in the voice of the gentile nations\nthat look upon it. This image is deeply ingrained in Jewish\nidentity --an image of a chastised, yet cherished, Israel as the\ninstrument of the nations' salvation by G'd.\n The verses speak of Israel taking on the sicknesses which\nare the literal and metaphorical manifestations of guilt and\ndiscipline. They do not speak of a \"servant\" going around and\nhealing people. Notice that the servant in Isaiah takes on the\nsicknesses and pains of the nations (and individual Jews). Jesus,\nas we all know, did not take the diseases onto himself. The\nverses here in Isaiah are not a prophecy of something to come, but\nrather something that had already happened. While it is believed\nthat Jesus took on the eternal punishment of hell, he did not bear\nthe illnesses he healed. So, while someone might want to say\nthat, figuratively, Jesus reenacted the deeds of Israel in his\nspiritual atonement, he has to admit that Matthew's parallel\nmisses where he intended it to have its effect.\n\n\nSilent Messiah:\n\n Upon healing multitudes of commoners, it is said that Jesus\nordered them to keep quiet, presumable so that he wouldn't arouse\nthe attention of the local rulers.\n\n [Mt 12.15-21] This was to fulfill what was spoken by\n the prophet Isaiah. \n\n \"Behold my servant whom I have chosen, my beloved,\n with whom my soul is pleased. I will put my spirit on\n him, and he will announce justice to the Gentiles. He\n will not wrangle or cry aloud, nor will anyone hear\n his voice in the streets. He will not break a bruised\n reed or quench a smoldering wick until he brings\n justice to victory, and the gentiles will hope in his\n name.\"\n\nThe Isaiah passage quoted reads,\n\n [Is 42.1-4] Behold my servant whom I uphold, my\n chosen, in whom my soul delights. I have put my\n spirit on him, and he will bring forth justice to the\n nations. We will not cry or lift up his voice, or\n make it heard in the street. He will not break a\n bruised reed, or quench a smoldering wick. He will\n faithfully bring forth justice. He will not fail\n (burn dimly) or be discouraged (bruised) until he has\n established justice in the earth. And the coastlands\n await his law.\n\nYou see, Matthew has conveniently left out part of the passage,\nbecause it does not suit the dealings of Jesus. Christians could\nnever think of Jesus failing, never would the \"light\" of mankind\nburn dimly. But, the servant nation of Israel will indeed come to\nan end when its job is done. When the gentiles come to embrace\nG'd there will no longer be a chosen people, but rather all will\nbe the children of G'd. Also, the ending phrase has been changed\nfrom the Judaic \"...the coastlands await his law.\" to the\nChristologic, \"the Gentiles will hope in his name.\" While the\noriginal proclaims the Torah law of Jehovah, the other rewrites it\nto fit its strange doctrine of \"believing in the name.\" If one\nhas any doubt the servant referred to is not Jesus, one has only\nto read the whole chapter, Isaiah 42, and hear about the beloved\nbut blind and imperfect servant, \"a people robbed and\nplundered...\" So, we see that when Matthew's attempt at\n\"prophecy\" is examined, it crumbles.\n\nThree Days and\nThree Nights:\n\n Now we come upon a prophecy supposedly uttered by the very\nmouth of the god Jesus himself. He speaks of his crucifixion and\nresurrection.\n\n [Mt 12.40] For as Jonah was in the belly of the\n whale for three days and three nights, so will the Son\n of Man be in the heart of the earth three days and\n three nights.\n\nBefore any further discussion can occur, it is necessary to know\nhow the Jews understood days. As far as day names went, each was\n24 hours long, lasting from sunset 6pm to the following sunset\n6pm. What was referred to as a \"day\" was the period of light from\n6am to the ending sunset at 6pm. Thus, according to our time\nscale, a sabbath day began at 6pm Friday evening, and lasted until\n6pm saturday evening. This is why the Jews celebrate their\nsabbath on the daylight portion of Saturdays, instead of Sundays. \n(It seems like a real miracle that Christians didn't forget that\nSaturday was indeed the seventh and last day of the week!) Thus,\nwhen days and nights are referred to together, 12 hour daylight\nportions and 12 hour night periods are being spoken of. Thus,\nJesus says that he will be in the grave, or in hell, or otherwise\nunresurrected for three days and three nights.\n\n As the good book tells us, Jesus was crucified on the \"ninth\nhour,\" which is 3pm, Friday afternoon. He then was put into the\ngrave sometime after that. Then, Jesus left the grave, \"rose,\"\nbefore dawn of what we call Sunday (The dawn after the sabbath was\nover). What this means is that Jesus was, using our time for\nclarity, in the grave from 6pm Friday night to some time before\n6am Sunday morning. We could also add a little time before 6pm\nFriday, since the bible is not specific here. What this means\nusing Jewish time is that he was in the grave for one day, two\nnights, and possibly a couple of hours of one day. Certainly this\nis a problem for Jesus prediction. There is absolutely no way we\nare even able to have his death involve three days and three\nnights --even using modern time measurements. We then are led to\nsuspect that this error is another one of Matthew's little\nmistakes, and that the gospel writer put false words into his\ngod's mouth. And no matter who made the prediction, it is more\nthan unconvincing... it is counter-convincing.\n\nHearing &\nUnderstanding:\n\n Jesus tool on a habit of speaking to his vast audiences in\nparables-- stories in which a deeper meaning could be found, if\nyou were already one of the elect, those chosen to understand the\nmessage of Jesus. He reasons that those who can understand the\nparables are the ones he wants. If the people cannot understand\nthem, there is no need to bother with them, since they will not\naccept the \"plain\" message any better. Matthew says,\n\n [Mt 13.14-16] With them [the audience] indeed in\n fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah which says, \n\n \"You will indeed hear but never understand; and you\n will indeed see, but never perceive. Because this\n people's heart has grown dull, their ears are heavy of\n hearing, and they have shut their eyes so the they\n would not perceive with them, her with their ears, and\n understand with their heart, and turn for me to heal\n them.\"\n\nThe original Isaiah passages are part of his earlier works, his\ncall to the ministry. This is in 740 BCE, when Israel is\nflourishing, right before it falls under the authority of Assyria. \nIsaiah sees the good times ending, and also a vision from G'd,\ncalling him to bring reform to Israel and Judah.\n\n [Is 6.9-13] And G'd said, \"Go, and say to this\n people, `Hear and hear, but do not understand; see and\n see, but do not perceive.' Make the heart of this\n people fat, make their ears heavy, and shut their\n eyes, so they will not see with their eyes, or hear\n with their ears, and understand with their hearts, and\n turn and be healed.\" Then Isaiah said, \"How long,\n lord?\" And he said, \"Until the cities lie waste\n without inhabitant, and houses without men, and the\n land is utterly desolate, and the G'ds take men far\n away, and forsaken places are many in the land. And\n though a tenth will remain in it, it will be burned\n again, like a terebinth or an oak whose stump still\n stands when the tree is felled.\" The holy seed is its\n stump.\n\nHere we see that it is really G'd who causes the people of Israel\nto stop listening to the prophet's warnings, but reaffirms the\npromise made to Solomon's (and David's) seed/lineage. If you read\nthe rest of Isaiah, you find that this is done to fulfil the plan\nof G'd to use Israel as a servant, a light to the nations. (Look\nat Isaiah 42.18-25, 48.20, 49.3)\n We see that Matthew has cut-and-pasted just a little portion\nof Isaiah's verse, to suit his own gospel needs. More than that,\nhe has altered the words, to make it fit the people who didn't\nunderstand Jesus's stories. And, as we see, Isaiah's verses are\nnot prophecies, but rather commands from G'd to him, in the\npresent. Once again, Matthew's prophecy falls flat on its face. \n\n Matthew tries again to make Jesus's parables look like they\nhave the prophetic approval.\n\n [Mt 13.35] ...he said nothing to them without a\n parable. This was to fulfil what was spoken of by the\n prophet, \"I will open my mouth to them in parables. I\n will utter that which has been hidden since the\n foundation of the world.\"\n\nMatthew really botches up here. He attempts to quote not from a\nprophet, but from the Psalms.\n\n [Ps 78.2-4] I will open my mouth in parable. I will\n utter dark sayings of old, things that we all have\n heard and known, things that our fathers have told us. \n We will not hide them from their children, but tell to\n the coming generation the glorious deeds of the\n lord...\n\nAs was pointed out, the verses in the Psalms do not really come\nfrom a prophet. You might also want to know that earlier copies\nof Matthew's gospel even inserted Isaiah's name as this prophet. \nApparently, later scribes caught the error and tried to cover some\nof it up.\n Perhaps the most significant part of this is that, once\nagain, Matthew has altered the Old Testament Scriptures. As Jesus\nhas said earlier, he speaks in parables so that some will not\nunderstand them. The parables in the Psalms are not to be hidden. \nFurther, they speak of things \"known, that our fathers have told\nus.\" Jesus deals with things \"hidden since the foundation of the\nworld.\" Indeed Jesus dealt in a lot of secrecy and confusion. \nThis is in direct opposition to the parables in the Psalms. No\nwonder Matthew had to rewrite them! And still once again,\nMatthew's artificial prophecies fall flat on their face. But,\nChristians rarely look at this. Matthew's prophecies aren't the\nonly things about Christianity that are beginning to look bad.\n\n\nExcuses of\nLittle Faith:\n\n In Mt. 17.14-21, we see that the disciples are able to go\naround casting out demons, except in one case. Not knowing what\nepilepsy was, the people thought those with the disease were\npossesed with demons. It is no wonder that the disciples were\nunable to \"dispossess\" the epileptic. But, Jesus, perhaps no more\nenlightened than they, is reported to have rebuked them, saying\nthey didn't have enough faith. This seems strange. Why was this\ndemon special? It seems that either a true believer has faith or\nhe does not. Apparently, enough faith will allow someone to move\nmountains. Of course, you will find no one, these days that can\nmove real mountains. No one parts seas. The only miracles the\nCharismatics can speak of are those rumoured to happen on trips to\nMexico or some faraway place. Major miracles are making some old\nwoman's arthritis feel better on Sunday morning T.V.\n\n And the gods, including Jesus, are always shrouded in\nancient lore and writings, protected from the skeptics in their\nsacred pasts. They are either dead, sleeping, or hiding in\nheaven, with people rumouring about their imminent return and\ntheir great miracles of days long gone. Yet, life goes on. \n\n Tales of mystics, stories of miracles-- all in a distant time\nor a distant place. Gods used to reveal themselves to men in the\nold days, Jehovah too. But, now they are silent. All the\ntheologians give are various excuses as to why we don't get to see\nGod anymore.\n\n We're too lazy; we're not zealous enough; we're\n sinful; it's just his \"plan\"; we put too many of our\n own demands on G'd's appearance; if we had the right\n faith, if we were willing to meet G'd on his terms...\n\n Yet, even the most pious of men have not seen G'd. You, dear\nreader, have not seen G'd. Not literally, you know that to be\ntrue. (I know that's presumptuous and bold. But, searching your\nheart, you know what I mean.) All that we've seen religions do is\nmake people feel good and content about not seeing G'd. They say\nour little faith does not merit us to see G'd. Sometimes, they\nsay, \"See the love in these people you worship with... see the\nlives of people change... that is seeing G'd.\" Thus people get\nlulled to sleep, satisfied with turning G'd into the everyday\nsights. But, that is not seeing G'd as I am speaking of... it is\nnot seeing G'd the way people used to see. \n What we see in the world that is good, is the compassion of\nhuman hearts, the love given and taken by men and women, the\nforgiveness practised by Christian & Atheist alike, beauty created\nby the mind of man. These are the things that are done; these are\nwhat we see. But, it is said this is so only because everybody\nhas little faith.\n\f\nJesus Rides on\nan Ass:\n\n Shortly after accepting the role of the Jewish messiah\nking, Jesus requests a donkey be brought in for him to ride into\nJerusalem. \n\n [Mt 21.5] This took place to fulfil what was spoken\n by the prophet, saying,\n\n Tell the daughter of Zion, \"Behold, your king is\n coming to you, humble, mounted on an ass, and on a\n ass-colt.\"\n\nOf course, the passage quoted from Zechariah 9.9 reads a little\ndifferently.\n\n Lo, your king comes to you; he is triumphant and\n victorious, humble, and riding on an ass, on an ass-\n colt... he will command peace to the nations.\n\nThere isn't all that much difference here, except that Zechariah\nonly involves one animal --an ass-colt-- while Matthew reads the\npoetic wording slightly differently. Thus, he has Jesus call for\nboth a colt and an adult ass. From Matthew's version, we get a\ncomical picture of the divine Christ sweating it to straddle two\ndonkeys. This could inevitably lead to a theological,\nproctological dilemma! We find that in the account written\nearlier by St. Mark, only the colt was called for and brought to\nJesus. This indeed fits the verses of Zechariah properly, and\nshows us that in Matthew attempt to use prophetic verses, he has\nbungled. Now, excluding many respectable Christians I have met, I\nhave noticed that while Christ is thought to have ridden on asses,\nthe situation is often reversed nowadays...\n\n Then, entering the Jerusalem temple, the priests were\nangered at people and youngsters calling Jesus the messiah. But,\nJesus replied as we might expect Matthew to have done,\n\n [Mt 21.16] Haven't you read? `Out of the mouth of\n babes and sucklings thou has brought perfect praise.'\n\nIt is more likely that Matthew made this response up since Jesus\nwas never one to point out such little \"prophetic\" things AND\nsince, as we might expect, the quote is in error, which seems to\nfit Matthew's track record quite well. We might ask Jesus or\nMatthew, \"Haven't you read?\" for the source reads,\n\n [Psalms 8.1-2] O YaHWeH our lord, how majestic is\n your name in the whole world! You, whose glory is\n chanted above the heavens by babes and infants, you\n have founded a bulwark against your foes to still the\n enemy and the avenger.\n\nThe passages hardly need comment. There is no \"perfect praise\"\nspoken of in the psalm, and what praise is there is given to G'd,\nnot his messiah king, and not Jesus. As mentioned, it seems to be\njust one more case of Matthew's pen making up convenient prophetic\nscripture.\n\nYHVH said to \nmy lord...:\n\n Jesus is said to have asked from whom the promised Jewish\nmessiah-king is to be descended. The Jews agree-- it is king\nDavid. But, then Jesus counters by quoting Psalms 110,\n\n \"The LORD said to my Lord, sit at my right hand, until\n I put your enemies under your feet.\"\n\nTaken at face value, Jesus is denying the necessity of Davidic\ndescent. One assumes he is in opposition to their answer. Of\ncourse, the Christian answer is that he agrees, but is trying to\nmake some hidden point, to reveal some mystery about the divine\nnature of the messiah-king. It's tempting to believe this, if one\nis a Christian and not interested in matters of investigation. \nBut, there are problems.\n In Jesus's time, the psalm was thought to be about the\nmessiah. And, it is easy to see why David might refer to the\nmessiah as his superior. We need only look at the scriptures\nabout the messiah to see that he is expected to be a great king,\nbringing the Jews to times even better than those under David's\nrule. Of course, the Jews listening had no good answer, and the\npassage could indeed refer to a divine messiah, such as the\nChristians worship. The problem lies in the meaning of this\npsalm, an error that apparently several Jews of Jesus's time had\nalso made. One must remember that there were various factions\namong the Jews, often as a result of different expectations of the\nmessiah-king. Jesus was apparently one of these adventists, like\nhis audience, who thought the messiah's advent was imminent, and\nwho interpreted Psalms 110, among others, as being messianic.\nWhat is the problem, then? Psalm 110 literally reads,\n\n YHVH's utterance to my lord:\n\t\"Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your\n footstool.\"\n\n YHVH sends forth your mighty scepter from Zion. Rule\n in the midst of your foes! Your people will offer\n themselves freely on the day you lead your host on the\n holy mountains. \n\n \"You are a priest of the order of Melchizedek\n forever.\"\n\nThe word \"lord\" is often mistakenly capitalised by Christian\nbibles to denote divinity in this lord. But, in the Hebrew, the\nword is \"adoni,\" and no capitalisation exists. Adoni simply means\n\"lord,\" a generic term as we would use it. It is used often in\nthe scriptures to refer to kings and to G'd. It is merely an\naddress of respect. \n There is nothing in the text itself to imply that the word\nrefers either to divinity or to the messiah-king. That this is\nsupposed to be written by David is not certain. The title of the\npsalm translates to either \"a psalm of David,\" or \"a psalm about\nDavid.\" It seems fitting to assume it to be written by a court\npoet, about David's covenant and endorsement from G'd. If the\npsalm had been written by David, it is unlikely that he would be\ntalking about the messiah. The idea of a perfect king, descended\nfrom David, was not present in David's age. We have extensive\ntales of David's doings and sayings-- none of which include any\npraises of a messiah.\n Many of the psalms show evidence of being written long after\nDavid was dead, in times of the exile when G'd had put his show of\nfavour for David's kingdom on hold. \n The description in the psalm fit David very well. David was\npromised by G'd a rise to power, victory over his enemies,\nsuccessful judgement among the nations he conquered. He achieved\nthe priesthood common to Melchizedek in being a righteous king,\nenabled to bless the people. It all fits.\n We do not have to blame this problem on Matthew alone,\nthough. Here, there is not artificial prophecy alluded to, though\nhis use of the scripture is rather questionable. Still, this\nevent is common to the other gospels too. So, we let Matthew off\na little more easily this time. It is interesting to note,\nthough, how Matthew dresses up the event. The earlier gospel of\nMark tells the tale with Jesus simply speaking to a crowd. \nMatthew has the Pharisees, who became the religious competition of\nan infant Christianity, be the target of Jesus's question. As we\nmight expect, Matthew writes that the event ends up by\nembarrassing the Pharisees. Such power is the pen.\n\nMoses & Jesus,\nHad it Together\nAll Along...:\n\n We leave the gospel story of Matthew momentarily to see a\npseudo-prophecy in John's gospel. The gospel story of John\ndeserves special treatment, because it seems to be so far removed\nfrom the real events of Jesus's career as told by even Matthew. \nBut, for the moment, we will just look at one verse. The early\nchurch leaders founded a religion on the Jewish hopes of a messiah\nking, and on an artificial extension of the original promises made\nby G'd. When constructing the history of Abraham, Moses wrote of\na promise of land and nationhood to the Jewish people. While this\nwas accomplished eventually, under the rule of king David, the\nChristians who came along later decided that they would claim the\nfulfillment of the promise. But, to do so, they expanded on the\npromise, preaching about a heavenly kingdom.\n\n [John 8.56] (J.C. speaking) Your father, Abraham,\n rejoiced to see My day. He say it and was glad.\n\nIt would be nice to tie in approval for Jesus from Abraham, but,\nAbraham knew nothing of Jesus or a messiah, or anything Christian. \nI have tried, and failed to find any event in the Old Testament\nwhich corresponds to John's little prophecy. It is par for the\ncourse to see St. John making up Old Testament backings, just like\nhis forerunner Matthew. Many Christians know that their faith has\nmany of its foundations in such fraud, and it is surprising they\nstill cling to it.\n\nThe Potter's\nField:\n\n We are told that Jesus was betrayed while in Jerusalem by\none of his followers, Judas Iscariot. Matthew writes,\n\n [Mt 27.5-10] And throwing down the pieces of silver\n in the temple, [Judas] departed... But, the chief\n priests, taking the silver, said, \"It isn't lawful for\n us to put it in the treasury, since it is blood\n money.\" So they... bought a potter's field with it to\n bury strangers in... Then was fulfilled what was\n spoken by the prophet Jeremiah,\n\n \"And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price\n of him on whom a price had been set by some of the\n sons of Israel, and they gave them for the potter's\n field, as the lord directed me.\"\n\nThis prophecy is an utterly gross bastardisation of Old Testament\nScripture. First, Matthew has made a mistake regarding the name\nof the prophet. It is Zechariah who utters the verses which\nMatthew makes use of.\n\n [Zech. 11.12-13] ...And they weighed out my wages,\n thirty shekels of silver. Then YHVH said to me, \"Cast\n them to the treasury,\" --the lordly price at which I\n was paid off by them. So I took the thirty shekels of\n silver and cast them into the treasury in the house of\n YHVH.\n\nFirst of all, the verses of Zechariah do not deal with a betrayer\nof the messiah, or of G'd. The deal with a shepherd, most likely\na priest, chosen to serve a function of presiding over the people\nshortly before G'd would send Judah and Israel into conflict with\none another. The word, \"treasury,\" had been replaced by the King\nJames Scholars with \"to the potter,\" precisely because this made\nMatthew's quote fit better. But, this is a blatant error. The\ncorrect translation of the Hebrew is indeed \"treasury,\" which also\nmakes perfect sense in Zechariah's context, whereas \"potter's\nfield\" is totally unrelated. Whether the mistranslation was\nintentional or not seems to be beyond speculation. However, given\nMatthew's track record, one finds it hard to resist the notion of\nintentional dishonesty.\n Of course, Matthew would have ample reason for altering the\ntext. The thirty pieces of silver match Judas's situation, and if\nas most Christians seem to be, the reader is willing to disregard\nthe contextual incongruity, Matthew might have another prophecy to\ntoss around. However, the correct translation of Zechariah\ndirectly contradicts the situation with Judas and the high\npriests. The high priests would not put the money in the\ntreasury. The worthless shepherd of Zechariah does exactly the\nopposite! Of course, to the average Thursday-Night Bible student,\nthe \"prophecy\" as presented by Matthew would be taken at New\nTestament face value. To those, Matthew's work is convincing\nenough.\n\nWine, Vinegar,\n& Casting Lots:\n\n Then, Jesus is led away to be crucified.\n\n [Mt 27.34-35] ...they gave him vinegar to drink,\n mingled with gall; but when he tasted it, he would not\n drink it. And, when they had crucified him, they\n divided his garments among them by casting lots: that\n it might be fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet,\n\n \"They parted my garments among them, and upon my\n vesture did they cast lots.\"\n\nFirst of all, the vinegar offered to Jesus is actually common sour\nwine, of the type that Roman soldiers drank regularly. We find\nthat right before Jesus dies, the soldiers themselves give him\nsome to drink --not polluted with gall.\n\n [Jn 19.28-30] Jesus... said, \"I thirst.\" A bowl of\n vinegar stood there, so they put a sponge full of the\n vinegar on hyssop and held it to his mouth. When he\n had received the vinegar, he said, \"It is finished;\"\n\nBut, Matthew seems to be drawing on, not a passage from the\nprophets, but one from the Psalms.\n\n [Ps 69.20-28] I looked for pity, but there was none;\n and for comforters, but I found none. They gave me\n poison for food (lit. they put gall in my meat), and\n for my thirst, they gave me vinegar to drink... Add\n to them punishment upon punishment, may they have no\n acquittal from thee. Let them be blotted out of the\n Book of the Living.\n\nOf course, the sour wine offered to Jesus is done at his request\nof drink. This does indeed seem to be a show of pity. The psalm\nquoted is about David and his political and military enemies. It\nis not about the messiah or Jesus. It is then not surprising that\nwe run into further problem when we see that the \"Jesus\" in the\npsalm asks G'd for the damnation of the \"crucifiers,\" whereas the\nJesus of the gospels says,\n\n [Lk 23.34] Jesus said, \"Father, forgive them, the\n don't know what they do!\"\n\nFurther, Matthew misses with his attempt to create prophecy by\nhaving gall (a bitter substance) put into Jesus's drink, not his\nmeat, as the psalm stipulates.\n\n With the \"prophecy\" of the vinegar faulty, we naturally\nask, \"What of the casting of lots?\" This brings up the 22nd\nPsalm, which deserves discussion all by itself. Suffice it now to\nsay that the fact that Jesus's clothes were divided as told is no\ngreat thing. It turns out that this happened often to any felon\nin those days. As we will soon see, it is perhaps the least\nerroneous passage of the psalm when applied to Jesus. It does\nindeed bring up the interesting question as to the quality of\nJesus's clothes. For a man so removed from worldly possessions,\nhis ownership of clothes worthy of casting lots raises some\nsuspicions.\n\nThe 22nd Psalm:\n\n This psalm is attributed to David, as a lament of his\ncondition under the attack of his enemies. It becomes a song of\npraise to YHVH and of hope. Taken out of context, parts of it\nseem to fit the plight of Jesus at the crucifixion quite well. We\nwill examine the primary passages.\n\n Verse 1-2: My god, my god! why have you forsaken me?! \n Why are you so far from helping me, far from the words\n of my groaning? Oh, my god, I cry by day, but you\n don't answer, and by night, but find no rest.\n\nJesus is said to have cried the first sentence while on the cross. \nThis suggests that the whole psalm is really about Jesus, rather\nthan king David. Of course, the rest of the first stanza does not\nfit as nicely to Jesus or his execution. Jesus is not pictured as\ncomplaining about the whole ordeal, he is supposed to be like \"the\nlamb led mute before its shearers.\" Indeed, Jesus doesn't do much\ngroaning, even when on the cross. He certainly does not cry by\nboth day and night on the cross.\n\n 6-8: But, I am a worm, and no man-- scorned by men... \n All who see me mock at me. They make faces and wag\n their heads; \"He committed his cause to YHVH. So let\n him deliver him... for he delights in him.\"\n\nThis seems to fit Jesus's execution pretty well, with the\nexception of the Holy messiah being called a worm.\n\n 12-13: Many bulls encompass me... they open their\n mouths widely at me like a ravening and roaring lion.\n\n 16-18: Yea, dogs are round about me, a company of\n evildoers encir-cle me, they have pierced my hands and\n feet. I can see all my bones... They divide my\n garments among them, and cast lost for my raiment.\n\n 19-21: But you, YHVH, be not far away! ...Deliver my\n soul from the sword, my life from the power of the\n dog! Save me from the mouth of the lion, and my\n afflicted soul from the horns of the wild bull!\n\nIt would seem quite convincing, and I'm sure the early Christian\nfathers who wrote of this prophecy thought so too. Unfortunately,\nthis prophecy has a fatal flaw. The words \"have pierced\" really\ndo not exist in the psalm. The correct Hebrew translation is,\n\n 16: Yea, dogs are round about me, a company of\n evildoers encircles me, like the lion, they are at my\n hands and feet...\n\nIn Hebrew the phrase \"like the lion\" and a very rare verb form\nwhich can mean \"pierced\" differ by one phonetic character. The\nword in the Hebrew text is literally, \"like the lion\" (ka'ari),\nwhich makes sense in the context, and even further fits the animal\nimagery employed by the psalm writer. It is convenience that\nwould urge a Christian to change the word to \"ka'aru.\" But, to\nadd the needed (yet artificial) weight to the \"prophecy\" this is\njust what the Christian translators have chosen to do. While the\ncorrect translation does not eliminate the psalm from referring to\nJesus, its absence does not say much for the honesty of the\ntranslators.\n\n Apart from the erroneous verse 16, the psalm does not lend\nitself to Jesus so easily. Verse 20 speaks of the sufferer being\nsaved from a sword rather than a cross. This naturally fits the\npsalm's true subject, king David. As a side note, we now know\nthat crucifixions did not pierce the hands, the palms, but rather\nthe forearms. This doesn't say much in favour of the traditional\nthought of a resurrected Jesus showing his disciples the scars on\nhis palms. But then, facts aren't bound by our religious beliefs.\n\n Matthew escapes culpability this time, as he does not\nattempt to draw many direct links between this psalm and his lord\nJesus. But the psalm, like many others, was on the minds of all\nthe gospel writers when they compiled the stories and\ninterpretations of Jesus's life and death. How much these\nscriptures may have contributed to what actually got written down\nis a question that has serious repercussions for Christian\ntheology. It is easy to see, for those who are not faithful\nfundamentalists, how some of the events in the New Testament might\nhave been \"enhanced\" by scribes such as the eager Matthew. But,\nit does less to speculate than to simply investigate scriptural\nmatters and prophetic claims. So far, this has not said good\nthings for St. Matthew.\n\nThe reference to the piercing looks a lot like Jesus's\ncrucifixion. John's gospel recount, written about 70 years after\nthe fact, tells us at Jesus's execution,\n\n [Jn 19.34,37] But one of the soldiers pierced his\n side with a spear, and out came blood and water...\n these things took place that Scripture be fulfilled...\n \"The will look on him whom they've pierced.\"\n\nOf course, this is built on a passage taken blatantly out of\ncontext. Prophet Zechariah tells us how much of the nation of\nIsrael will split off from Jerusalem and Judah and go to war with\nthem.\n\n [Zc 12.7-10] And YHVH will give victory to Judah...\n And on that day, I will seek to destroy the nations\n that come against Jerusalem (in Judah). And I will\n pour a spirit of compassion and supplication... on\n Jerusalem so that when they look on him who they have\n pierced, they will mourn, and weep bitterly over him\n like you weep over a firstborn child.\n\nJohn's attempt to make up prophecy is perhaps weaker that\nMatthew's attempts. Matthew, at least, usually excontexts more\nthan just one passage. John's errors are grossly obvious and\nblatant here. It does not speak well for any of the gospel\nwriters, as it helps to show how the prophetic aspects of their\nreligion were founded.\n\n\f\nReckoned with\nTransgressors:\n\n After his arrest, Jesus is quickly executed for claiming\nthe Jewish kingship, messiahship. According to one version of\nthe gospel tale, Jesus gets executed along with two thieves.\n\n [Mk 15.27] And with him they crucified two robbers,\n one on his right, one on his left. And so the\n scripture was fulfilled which says,\n\n \"He was reckoned with the transgressors.\"\n\nHere, Mark is trying to link Jesus to a passage in Isaiah 53,\nabout the servant nation of Israel. The passage is not about the\nmessiah, for if one reads the whole chapter of Isaiah 53, and its\nsurrounding chapters, one sees that the servant is a nation. The\nverses are also about what this servant has gone through in the\npast, not a prediction of what is to come, in any event. The\nservant is thought of as a criminal. This also happens to fit the\ndescription of Jesus. Had the passage really been about the\nmessiah, it still is not at all clear why executing Jesus between\ntwo thieves would fulfill the \"prophecy\" in Isaiah. Jesus would\nmore fittingly fulfill it with his whole ministry. He was\nconsidered a blasphemer and troublemaker all throughout his\ncareer. Locking onto a single event is a rather poor way to\nsteal prophecy, at least in this case, as we see that Mark could\nhave had made a better analogy with general comparisons.\n\n Mark goes on to tell us how \"those who were crucified with\n[Jesus] also reviled him.\" [15.32] This is to be expected from a\ncouple of robbers. Of course in his later recount, St. Luke\ndecides to change some things. Luke tells us,\n\n [Lk 23.39-43] And one of the criminals who was hanged\n with him railed, \"Aren't you the messiah?! Save\n yourself, and us!\"\n\nThis certainly fits with Mark's recount, which tells how the\npeople who crucified Jesus said, \"Save yourself!\" and that the\nrobbers did the same. But then Luke goes on,\n\n But the other [criminal] rebuked [the first] saying,\n \"Don't you fear G'd, since you are under the same\n sentence of condemnation? And we, indeed justly so,\n for we are receiving the due reward for our deeds. \n But, this man has done nothing wrong. And he said,\n \"Jesus, remember me when you come in your kingdom.\" \n And Jesus answered, \"Verily I say to you, today you\n will be with me in paradise.\"\n\nNow, this little dialogue seems highly contrived. It stretches\nthe imagination a bit to see this picture of one ruffian rebuking\nhis fellow criminal with such eloquent speech. We have a rather\nstrange picture of a criminal lamenting over the goodness of his\npunishment and the justness of his suffering. Such a man,\napparently noble and of principle, doesn't seem likely to have\nbeen a robber. We wonder at the amount of theatrics created by\nLuke. Of course, Luke's recount also disagrees with Mark's. \nLuke has only one criminal revile Jesus, not both. It is easy\nenough to discount the discrepancy because the account was made\nup, but those who wish to believe it is all part of the error free\nwords of G'd do not have this avenue open. This is yet another\nexample of a writer trying to take an Old Testament passage and\nexpand it and reinterpret it to suit his theology. In this case,\nthe embroidery creates some embarrassing problems, as we have\nseen.\n\nThe End of the\nWorld--\n Mt. 24:\n\n Now comes perhaps one of the most extraordinary and\nembarrassing passages in the New Testament. It is found in all\nthree of the synoptic gospel stories, and casts some of the most\nunfavourable doubt on the whole theory of Christianity. Jesus\nmentions the destruction of the Jewish temples and buildings, and\nhis disciples ask him about this, and about the end of the world\nwhich he has been warning about.\n\n The disciples: Tell us, when will this [the temple's\n destruction] be, and what will be the sign of your\n coming, and of the close of the age?\n\n Jesus: Take care that no one leads you astray, for\n many will come in my name, saying, \"I am the christ.\" \n ...you will hear of wars and rumours of wars... for\n this must take place, but the end is not yet. For,\n nation will rise against nation... all this is but the\n beginning of the birthpangs.\n They will deliver you up... put you to death,\n and false prophets will arise and lead many astray.\n ...But he who endures to the end will be saved. This\n gospel will be preached throughout the whole world, a\n testimony to the nations, and then the end will come.\n So, when you see the desolation spoken of by the\n prophet Daniel, ...let those who are in Judea flee to\n the mountains.\n\n Immediately after the tribulation of those days,\n the sun will be darkened... the stars will fall from\n heaven... then will appear the sign of the Son of Man\n in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn,\n and see the Son of Man coming... and he will send out\n his angels... and gather his elect...\n Learn the lesson of the fig tree: as soon as its\n branch becomes tender and puts forth leaves, you know\n that summer is near. So also, when you see all these\n things, you will know that He is near, at the very\n gate. Truly I say to you, this generation will not\n pass away until all these things take place...\n But, of the day and hour, no one knows; not the\n angels, not the Son, but only the Father... Therefore,\n you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming\n at an hour you do not expect.\n\nFrom this, it is clear that Jesus thought the world would in\nwithin the lifetimes of at least some of his disciples. He tells\nthem that although he doesn't know the exact day or hour, that it\nwill come, and thus they must be ready. Theologians have wet\ntheir pants in panic to find some way out of this Holy Error. \nBut, unfortunately, Jesus made himself to explicit. He told his\ndisciples that their generation would still be around at the End,\nand that they in particular should prepare for it, prepare to be\nswept away.\n There have been some who resorted to removing the inerrant\nnature of the Bible, and said that the phrase, \"this generation\nshall not pass away...\" really means \"this race of people will not\npass away...\" Of course, the word for generation is used many\ntimes to refer to exactly that, the generation of the disciples. \nIt is an interesting notion that when God decided to learn Greek,\nhe didn't learn it well enough to make himself clear. But. it is\nquite obvious from the rest of the dialogue that the disciples (at\nleast some of them) are supposed to live to the End of the World. \nThe charge of mistranslation is completely blown away by looking\nat the Apostles' responses. It becomes abundantly clear from\nRev. 22.7, 1 Peter 4.7, 1 John 2.18, and Rev. 22.20, that Jesus\nmeant exactly what he said. The End was very near.\n\n For 2,000 years, Christians have rationalised this 24th\nchapter of Matthew, or ignored its meaning altogether. For 2,000\nyears, they have waited for their executed leader to come back,\nhearing of wars, and rumours of wars, sure that He is coming soon. \nSurely He must be. All we must do is wait. Can you imagine how\ntired He must be, sitting around up there, being holy, waiting for\njust the right moment to spring?\n\n\n So, shortly after his crucifixion, Jesus of Nazareth,\n(Joshua-ben-Joseph), died. It is said that after three days, or\nthree days and three nights, or three periods of time, or three\neternal seconds --or three of whatever they can decide makes for\nless trouble-- he was seen again, resurrected, glowing with divine\nradiance. Then the Saviour decided it wasn't in the best\ninterests of his new religion to stick around, and therefore\ndisappeared from sight into heaven. So the story goes, anyway. \nAs has been seen, there were many things attributed to Jesus when\npeople got around to writing the gospel stories down. To them,\nJesus was the fulfiller of all prophecy and scripture. We have\nseen, though, that this matter is quite shaky. But, throughout\nChurch history, Christians have held fast to faith, in simple\nbelief. What doctrinal objections could not be solved with\nargumentation or brute force, faith and forgetfulness kept away\nfrom question. To question and investigate has never been the\neasiest way to treat matters. Thus for 2,000 years, the\nprophecies cited in the New Testament have gone on largely\naccepted. Things may well continue that way for some time. \nPausing a moment to consider the way the doctrines of Christianity\nhave been accepted and used (properly or improperly) to support\nwars and persecution, I suppose there is one prophecy of which\nChristianity can securely keep hold.", "\n > I would rather spend an eternity in Hell than be beside God in\n > Heaven knowing that even one man would spend his \"eternal life\"\n > being scorched for his wrongdoings....\n\nStephen, I suspect that when you and I use the word \"Hell,\" we have\ndifferent concepts in mind. When you encounter references to Heaven\nin terms of crowns and harps and golden streets, I trust that you do\nnot suppose (or suspect Christians of supposing) that the golden\nstreets are to be taken literally, still less that they are what the\nconcept of Heaven is all about. Why then should you suppose that\nabout the \"fires\" of Hell?\n Have you read the novel ATLAS SHRUGGED? Do you remember the\nlast description of James Taggart, sitting on the floor beside the\nFerris Persuader? This comes close to a description of what is meant\nby Hell in my circles. If the image of fire is often used in this\nconnection, there are two reasons that occur to me.\n The first reason is that it conveys the idea of Hell as\nsomething that any rational being would earnestly wish to avoid (as\nany rational being would wish to avoid the fate of James Taggart --\nbut the latter image is meaningful only to those who have read ATLAS\nSHRUGGED, a smaller audience than those who have played with\nmatches).\n The second reason is the history of the Hebrew word \"Gehenna,\"\none of the words translated \"Hell\" in the New Testament. It refers\nto the valley of Hinnon, outside Jerusalem. In early days, it was a\nplace where the Canaanites offered human sacrifices (burned alive)\nto Molech. Later, it was made a garbage or refuse dump, where fires\nburned continually, consuming the trash of the city of Jerusalem.\n\"To be cast into Gehenna\" or \"to burn in Gehenna\" thus became a\nmetaphor for \"to be rejected or discarded as worthless.\"\n\nLest you think that identifying Hell with the fate of James Taggart\nis my own private fancy, I commend to you the book THE GREAT\nDIVORCE, by C S Lewis. It discusses Heaven (no harps) and Hell (no\nflames). It is shorter than ATLAS SHRUGGED, and available at most\nbookstores and libraries.", "Kermit Tensmeyer quoted from a few sources and then wrote something.\nI will attempt to construct a facsimile of what was previously said, and \nthen address Kermit's offering.\n\nJohn Redelfs originally wrote...\n\n jr> I learned that a man cannot frustrate justice by repenting on his\n jr> death bed because repentance is more than a feeling of remorse. It\n jr> requires faith in Christ proven by following him, by keeping his\n jr> commandments. Such cannot be accomplished on ones deathbed.\n\nTom Albrecht responded...\n\n ta> So Jesus must have lied to the thief on the cross.\n\nJohn Redelfs wrote back that...\n\n jr> Paradise and salvation are not the same thing. Salvation is better.\n jr> Refer to John 14:2.\n\nI responded to John that...\n\n rw> I don't see the effort to equate salvation with paradise.\n rw>\n rw> Rather, I see implied the fact that only those who are saved\n rw> may enter paradise.\n\nTo which Kermit wrote...\n\nkt> Incomplete reference:\nkt>\nkt> See also the discussion: Did Jesus go into Hell in the BibleStudy group\nkt> for the arguments that Paradise and Hell(sheol) are places after death\nkt> The discussion (no LDS were involved as far as I could see) argued using\nkt> standard Christian argument from the Bible that pretty much support the\nkt> LDS position.\nkt>\nkt> Christ went to paridise after his death and burial.\nkt>\nkt> He taught the prisoners and freed them from Darkness.\nkt>\nkt> When he was resurrected, he had not yet ascended to his father.\nkt>\nkt> The arguement centered around what was or wasn't the proper biblical\nkt> terms for those places.\n\n I respond.\n\n The question that was raised was not if Jesus went to infernal Paradise\n before entering into heaven. No one has made a point for or against \n that issue, nor have they compared the LDS position against orthodox\n belief. The infernal paradise is held to be Abraham's bosom (Luke 16), \n the place of the righteous dead in sheol (equivalent to hades).\n\n The point that was raised by John was that someone could not repent\n on their death bed. Tom Albrecht pointed to a Biblical example that was\n contradictory to what John's position put forward. The thief on the \n cross was promised by Christ to be with Him in Paradise, the abode of \n the righteous dead. John's position possibly needs to be reworked.\n Kermit needs to address the topic at hand.", "From article , by ruthless@panix.com (Ruth Ditucci):\n\nI do hope that you are not suggesting that merely because a person\nreplies in an \"acrid, angry and sarcastic\" manner that this\ndemonstrates their 'non-christianity'? The simple fact is that there\nis not a Christian on the face of the planet (that I know of!) that is\nperfect. I have been known at times to have a fit of temper, or a\nsulk, but this does not make me any the less a Christian.\n\nOne of the points of being a Christian (as I perceive it) is to become\nMORE LIKE Christ. This statement inherently suggests that we ARE NOT\nalready like Christ. Jesus never unrighteously lost his temper. I\ndo. Jesus was perfect. I'm not.\n\n\nYou must understand that this is because Christians often forget to\ntreat others as our role-model - Christ - would. This is because we are\nhuman and falible. I, for one, do not pretend to be infalible, and I\nhope that my fellow-men will bear with me when I make mistakes. This\nsurely is not too much to ask, when I make every effort to bear with\n_them_.\n\n\n\nAnd don't we know it!\n\n\nAgain I say, we are ALL human!\n\nTo my brethren, this: \n\nMs Duticci has a valid point and we as Christians ought to heed the\nwarning in her article. We oftimes discredit ourselves and our\nSaviour, in the way that we treat others. Strive towards the goal set\nus by our Lord, but in the meantime, remember :\n\n \"There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ...\"\n\nWhen you blow it - go easy on yourself. Forgive yourself, as your\nFather in heaven forgives you! And remember - and this is something I\nfirmly beieve and cling to - one day, we shall see Him face to face,\nand in that day, we shall (finally!) be perfected. \n\nI look forward to seeing you there.\n\n\n RRRRR OO BBBBB :\n R R OO OO B B :\n R R OO OO B BB : Robert Pomeroy\n R RR O O B B :\n RRRR O O BBBBB : u2i02@teach.cs.keele.ac.uk\n R R O O B B :\n R R OO OO B BB : 1993\n R R OO OO B B :\n R R OO BBBBB :\n\n\nPS If you want to draw anything to my attention, then please mail me\ndirect, because I don't often read the news...", "\n\n I guess I would react rather strongly to this line of thinking carried \nout! When you think \"your army\" is stronger than \"mine\", you would \n\"righteously\" take my children and baptize them, doing what you know is \nreally \"best\" for them.\n You cannot possibly put this kind of action, nor the crusades into the \ncontext of the teachings of Jesus/God. I think he advocated a different \napproach that was *by design* made to be appealing, to those called by him, \nnot chosen by a church practice.\n It seems to me you have the cause and effect switched, the change comes \nand then you get baptized.\n", "\n: I agree, I had a hard feeling not believing my grand-grand mother\n: who told me of elves dancing outside barns in the early mornings.\n: I preferred not to accept it, even if her statement provided\n: the truth itself. Life is hard.\n\n\nKent,\n\nTruly a brilliant rebuttal. Apparently you are of the opinion that\nridicule is a suitable substitute for reason; you'll find plenty of\ncompany a.a", "Stephen A. Creps writes to All:\n\n[...]\n\n SAC> Also, we know that\n SAC> the Bible says that _everyone_ must be baptized to enter Heaven.\n\nWhere exactly does it say that?\n\n SAC> _Everyone_ includes infants, unless there is other Scripture to the\n SAC> contrary, i.e. an exception. Since there is no exception listed in the\n SAC> Bible, we must assume (to be on the safe side) that the Bible means what\n SAC> it says, that _everyone_ must be baptized to enter Heaven.\n\nI think we do see an exception in the case of Cornelius and his\nhousehold, mentioned in Acts. Of course, they were baptised, but only\nafter \"God showed that He accepted them by giving them the Holy\nSpirit\". This means they were already acceptable to God before their\nbaptism, and had they suddenly died they would have gone to heaven.\n\nIn case that seems far-fetched - an ancestor of mine was a missionary\nwho worked among the Hereros in Namibia. Some of the tribesmen were\njealous of Christianity, and they poisoned the first convert before he\ncould be baptised. Surely he still went to heaven? I'm inclined to\nagree with a comment recorded at the time: \"It is not the neglect of\nbaptism, but its contempt, that condemns.\"\n\nMike", "MC> Theory of Creationism: MY theistic view of the theory of\nMC> creationism, (there are many others) is stated in Genesis\nMC> 1. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.\n\nAnd which order of Creation do you accept?\tThe story of creation is one of the\nmany places in the Bible where the Story contradicts itself. The following is\nan example...\n\nGEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle \nafter their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his\nkind: and God saw that it was good.\nGEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: \nand let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of\nthe air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every\ncreeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.\n\nGEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be\nalone; I will make him an help meet for him.\nGEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the \nfield, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he\nwould call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was\nthe name thereof.\n\nEven your Bible cannot agree on how things were created. Why should we\nbelieve in it?", "\nWhether there is a \"why\" or not we have to find it. This is Pascal's(?) wager.\nIf there is no why and we spend our lives searching, then we have merely\nwasted our lives, which were meaningless anyway. If there is a why and we\ndon't search for it, then we have wasted our potentially meaningful lives.\nSuppose the universe is 5 billion years old, and suppose it lasts another\n5 billion years. Suppose I live to be 100. That is nothing, that is so small\nthat it is scary. So by searching for the \"why\" along with my friends here\non earth if nothing else we aren't so scared.\n\nWhat if you woke up at a party, with no memory, and everyone was discussing\nwho the host might be? There might not be a host, you say. I say let's go\nfind him, the party's going to be over sometime, maybe he'll let us stay.\n\nBecause we recognize our own mortality we have to find the \"why\".\n\n\nThis is a good point. But more of a good point for studying religion\nthan ignoring it. Some Christians disagree with me, but it is worthwhile\nto study different religions and philosophies and glean the truth from\nthem. To quote (of course out of context) \"Test everything and keep what is\ntrue.\"", "\nI agree that there is truth in scripture. There are principles to be \nlearned from it. Claiming that that truth is absolute, though, seems \nto imply a literal reading of the Bible. If it were absolute truth \n(constant across time, culture, etc.) then no interpretation would be \nnecessary.\n\nIt may be that the lessons gleaned from various passages are different \nfrom person to person. To me, that doesn't mean that one person is \nright and the other is wrong. I believe that God transcends our simple \nminds, and that scripture may very well have been crafted with exactly \nthis intent. God knows me, and knows that my needs are different \nfrom yours or anyone else's. By claiming that scripture is absolute,\nthen at least one person in every disputed interpretation must be wrong.\nI just don't believe that God is that rigid.\n\n\nThis is where the arrogance comes in to play. Since these principles \nare crystal clear to evangelicals, maybe the rest of us should just take\ntheir word for it? Maybe it isn't at all crystal clear to *me* that \ntheir fundamental principles are either fundamental *or* principles.\n\nI think we've established that figuring out Biblical truth is a matter \nof human interpretation and therefore error-prone. Yet you can still \nclaim that some of them may be crystal clear? Maybe to a certain \nsegment of Christianity, but to all.\n\n\nNot at all. I think it supports my position much more effectively \nthan yours. :-)\n\nSo, I think that your position is:\nThe Bible is absolute truth, but as we are prone to error in our \ninterpretation, we cannot reliably determine if we have figured out \nwhat that truth is.\nDid I get that right?\n\nWhat's the point of spending all this time claiming and defending \nabsolute truth, when we can never know what those truths are, and we \ncan never (or at least shouldn't) act upon them? What practical \ndifference can this make?", "\n When an alleged private revelation attracts sufficient attention,\n the Church may investigate it. If the investigation indicates a\n likelihood that the alleged private revelation is in fact from God,\n it will be approved. That means that it can be preached in the\n Church. However, it is still true that no one is required to\n believe that it came from God. A Catholic is free to deny the\n authenticity of even the most well attested and strongly approved\n private revelations, such as those at Fatima and Lourdes. (I\n suspect that few if any Catholics do reject Fatima and Lourdes, but\n if any do their rejection of them does not mean they are not\n orthodox Catholics in good standing.)\n\nIt may be a bit much to say that a Catholic is free to deny what\nhappened at Fatima. That's a bit strong, it is sort of like saying\nthat a Catholic is free to deny that Hong Kong exists. What a\nCatholic *is* free to do is to deny the truth of Fatima, without being\ncalled a heretic. You can be labeled other things for such an\noffense, but not a heretic.\n\nTheologians make a basic distinction as far as the degree of assent\none must give to events like Fatima and Lourdes. Things revealed by\nGod through Jesus Christ or His Apostles must be given the assent due\nto a revelation of God: total and unswerving. Fatima and Lourdes\ndemand our assent as much as any other well-attested event in human\nhistory. Perhaps a bit more, given the approval of the Church.\n\n\"Approval\" of an apparition by the Church principally means that\nwhatever happened was in harmony with the Catholic Faith.\n\nI personally think of private revelations as our Lord's way of telling\nus what to do at particular periods in history. He gave us all the\ndoctrines, etc., 2000 years ago, but we can always use some help in\nknowing how exactly to apply what He gave us.\n\nCatholic devotion to the Sacred Heart was a result of a series of\napparitions to St. Margaret Mary Alacoque, for example. The problem\nat the time was extreme moral rigorism that was turning our Lord into\nsomeone without a heart.", "\nNothing is perfect. Nothing is perpetual. i.e. even if it is perfect,\nit isn't going to stay that way forever. \n\nPerpetual machines cannot exist. I thought that there\nwere some laws in mechanics or thermodynamics stating that.\n\nNot an atheist\nBN\n--", "completely\never be\nis \ndifference\netc....", "Used pair of golf shoes Size 9 1/2 good shape no holes etc. $10.00 o.b.o.\n plus shipping. David-- \n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\nDavid B. Snyder Logicon Technical Services Inc.\ndsnyder@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil Wright-Patterson Air Force Base\n513-255-5165 Dayton, Ohio USA\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\nIt is said that GOD doesn't subtract from ones' time on earth, those\nhours spent flying.\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\n1946 Cessna 140 N76234 \"The lady in waiting\" Owner/Operator\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\nOpinions expressed are my own and not those of Logicon or the USAF.", "\nThis is a classic example of excessive faith in reason. The fact that we\nhave trouble talking about something doesn't imply that it is impossible; it\nsimply implies that it is hard to talk about. There is a very good chance\nthat God *can* flibble glop ork groink. Charlie Wingate can flibble glop\nork groink, and he isn't even God.", "\n\nI guess that's why scientists probably aren't mentioned either. Or\nstock brokers. Or television repairmen. \n\nIt's precious to know just how deep the brainwashing from childhood\n( that it takes to progress a religion ) cleans away a very substantial\npart of the reasoning neurons.\n\nBut don't mind me; I don't exist.", "So we have this highly Christian religious order that put fire\non their house, killing most of the people inside.\n\nI'm not that annoyed about the adults, they knew supposedly what\nthey were doing, and it's their own actions.\n\nWhat I mostly are angry about is the fact that the people inside,\nincluding mothers, let the children suffer and die during awful\nconditions.\n\nIf this is considered religious following to the end, I'm proud\nthat I don't follow such fanatical and non-compassionate religions.\n\nYou might want to die for whatever purpose, but please spare\nthe innocent young ones that has nothing to do with this all.\n\nI have a hard time just now understanding that Christianity\nknows about the word compassion. Christians, do you think \nthe actions today would produce a good picture of your \nreligion?\n\n\nKent\n", "\n\nI will answer this as I find time.\n\n\nNotice what I said about this book. I called it \"Easy reading.\" The reason I\ndropped philosphy as my major was because I ran into too many pharisaical\nSimon's. I don't know how many walking encyclopedia's I ran across in\nphilosphy classes. The problem isn't in knowing sooooo much more than your\naverage lay person, the problem comes when you become puffed up about it. \nSchaeffer is just fine for the average lay person. That was who he was\nwritting to. I suppose that you would have criticised John that his gospel was\nto simple. I've talked with Schaeffer one on one. I've been in lectures with\nthe man when he was being drilled by philosphy students and prof's from secular\nas well as Christian universities. (ND alone would fill both those catagories) \nHis answers were enough that the prof's themselves often were taken back and\ncaused to re-think what their question was. I saw this time and time again at\ndifferent open forums. So yes, Schaeffers books are by in large, well,\nsimplistic. It certainly isn't grad level reading. But we must get off our\nhigh horses when it comes to recommended reading. Do you seriously think most\npeople would get through the first chapter of Wittgenstein? I may have more to\nsay about this secular scientist at another time.\n\nAlso, one must finally get beyond the doubt caused by *insistent*\ninquisitiveness. One cannot live his life constantly from a cartisian doubt\nbase. \n\nLook, the Christian wholeheartedly supports genuine rationality. But we must\nadd a qualification to give this balance. Christianity is second to none in\nkeeping reason in its place. We never know the value of a thing until we know\nits limits. Put unlimited value on something and in the end you will exhaust\nit of all value!\n\nTHis is why Xianity is thoroughly rational but not the least bit rationalistic.\n It also explains the curious fact that it is rationalism, and not Christian\nfaith, which leads to irrationality. If we forget the limits of a thing, we\nfly in the face of reality and condem ourselves to learn the simple ironic\nlesson of life: \n\n\"More without limits is less; less with limits is more.\" \n\nOr as I have so often stated it, freedom without form soon becomes form w/o\nfreedom.\n\nLet's put it another way. The rationality of faith is implacably opposed to\nabsurdity but has no quarrel with mystery. Think about that. It can tell the\ndifference between the two if you will let it. Christianity's contention with\nrationalism is not that it has too much reason in it, but that it has very\nlittle else. When a Christian comes to faith his understanding and his trust\ngo hand in hand, but as he continues in faith his trust may sometimes be called\nto go on by itself without his understanding.\n\nThis is where the principle of suspended judgment applies. At such time if the\nChristian faith is to be itself and let God be God, it must suspend judgment\nand say, \"Father I do not understand you but I trust you.\" Now don't read all\nyour objections of me into that statement. I wasn't saying I do not understand\nyou at all, but I trust you anyway.\" It means that \"I do not understand You *in\nthis situation* but I do understand *why I trust You* anyway\" Therefore I can\ntrust that you understand even though I do not. The former is a mystery\nunrelieved by rationality and indistinguishable from absurdity. The latter is\na statement of rationality of faith walking hand in hand with the mystery of\nFaith. So.... the principle of suspended judgment is not irrational. It is\nnot a leap of faith but a walk of faith. As believers we cannot always know\nwhy, but we canalways know why we trust God who knows why and this makes all\nthe difference.\n\nNow, there is one obvious snag to all this and this is where I have parted\ncompany with philosophy- what is eminently reasonable in theory is a rather bit\nmore difficult in practice. In practice the pressure of mystery acts on faith\nlike the insistent \"whying\" of a 3 year old. It isn't just that we would like\nto know what we do not know but that we feel we *must* know what we cannot\nknow. The one produces frustration because curiosity is denied; the other\nleads to genuine anguish. More specifically the poorer our understanding is in\ncoming to faith the more necessary it will be to understand everything after\ncoming to faith. If we do not know why we trust God, then we will always need\nto know exactly what God is doing in order to trust him. Failing to grasp\nthat, we may not be able to trust him, for anything we do not understand may\ncount decisevely against what we are able to trust. \n\nIf, on the other hand, we do know why we trust God, we will be able to trust\nhim in situations where we do not understand what He is doing. (Too many Xian\nleaders teach as if the Christian had a window in the back of his head which\nallows for understanding at every foot fall) For what God is doing may be\nambiguous, but it will not be inherently contradictory! It may be mystery to\nus, but mystery is only inscrutable; what would be insufferable is absurdity.\nAnd that my friend, was the conclusion of Nietzche both in theory and in\npractice. ", ": \n[ . . . . . ]\n:\n: Personally, I feel that since religion have such a poweful\n: psychological effect, we should let theists be. But the problem is that\n: religions cause enormous harm to non-believers and to humanity as a whole\n: (holy wars, inquisitions, inter-religious hatred, impedence of science\n: & intellectual progress, us-&-them attitudes etc etc. Need I say more?).\n: I really don't know what we can do about them. Any comments?\n: \n\n I have always held that there should be no attempt to change a persons\nattitude or lifestyle as long as it makes them happy and does not tax\nanybody else. This seems to be ok for atheists. You don't get an atheist\nknocking on your door, stopping you in the airport, or handing out\nliterature at a social event. Theists seem to think that thier form of\nhappy should work for others and try to make it so. \n\n My sister is a \nborn again, and she was a real thorn in the side for my entire family\nfor several years. She finally got the clue that she couldn't help.\nDuring that period she bought me \"I was atheist, now I'm Xtian\" books\nfor my birthday and Xmas several times. Our birthday cards would contain\nverses. It was a problem. I told my mom that I was going to send my\nsister an atheist piece of reading material. I got a \"Don't you dare\".\nMy mom wasn't religious. Why did she insist that I not send it ??\n\n Because our society has driven into us that religion is ok to\npreach, non-religion should be self contained. What a crock of shit.\nI finally told my sister that I didn't find her way of life attractive.\nI have seen exactly 0 effort from her on trying to convert me since then.\n\n I'm sick of religious types being pampered, looked out for, and WORST\nOF ALL . . . . respected more than atheists. There must be an end\nin sight.", "This is fascinating. Atheists argue for abortion, defend homosexuality\nas a means of population control, insist that the only values are\nbiological and condemn war and capital punishment. According to\nBenedikt, if something is contardictory, it cannot exist, which in\nthis case means atheists I suppose.\nI would like to understand how an atheist can object to war (an\nexcellent means of controlling population growth), or to capital\npunishment, I'm sorry but the logic escapes me.\nAnd why just capital punishment, what is being questioned here, the\npropriety of killing or of punishment? What is the basis of the\necomplaint?", "\nI have no problem with the idea that catechumens be dismissed before\nthe Eucharist. They were not considered qualified to participate.\n\n\nDoes the dismissal in the early church mean that the eucharist was a\nsecret? I mean, was it:\n\n\tyou don't have to stay; from now on, only the membership can\n\tparticipate; you really don't have to hang around; yes, I know\n\tyou're obliged to keep up attendance to qualify, but now is an\n\texception, okay?\n\nor was it:\n\n\tyou may not stay; what happens next is secret\n\nWhen we have had reason to conduct business meetings after church,\nwe've made it clear that only members can vote. But we've always been\nhappy for non-members to stay and observe.\n\nDo you have evidence for intentional secrecy? (Other than rumours,\nwhich will always happen when you have an underclass doing things not\napproved of by those in power?)", "Another guess to your salvation riddle would be \"saved\".", "BR> From: wpr@atlanta.dg.com (Bill Rawlins)\nBR> Newsgroups: alt.atheism\nBR> Organization: DGSID, Atlanta, GA\n\nBR> The problem is that most scientists exclude the\nBR> possibility of the supernatural in the question of\nBR> origins. Is this is a fair premise? I utterly\nBR> reject the hypothesis that science is the highest form of \nBR> truth.\n\nIt is better than the crap that the creationists put out. So far all they\nhave been able to manage is distortions and half-truths. (When they are not\ntaking quotes out of context...)\n\nBR> Some of these so-called human-like creatures were\nBR> apes. Some were humans. Some were fancifully\nBR> reconstructed from fragments. \n\nThe genetic code has shown more about how man is realted to primates that the\nfossil record. (A little detail the creationists try and ignore.)\n\nBR> Good deeds do not justify a person in God's\nBR> sight. An atonement (Jesus) is needed to atone\nBR> for sin.\n\nWho says? Your Bible(tm)?\tI would be surprised if *ANY* Christian followed\nall of the rules in the Bible. (Most of them just pick and choose, according\nto the local biases.)\n\nBR> My point: God is the creator. Look's like we agree.\n\nWhere is your proof? How do you know it was *YOUR* God?\n\nBR> I'll send you some info via e-mail.\nBR> Regards, Bill.\n\nWhy not post them?\tI would be interested in seeing them myself.", "\nI strongly disagree that absolute truth would not require interpretation.\nThat's because truth may be absolute, but it may not be obvious. Like\nso many things, the truth is always subject to misinterpretation.\n\nI strongly suspect that we are reaching an impasse here, which is why I\ndeign from commenting much further.\n\n\nNow hold it. I never said that Christians cannot be arrogant. Indeed, as\nmany other Christians on SRC have stressed before, this is a trap that\nChristians must always be wary about. However, this does not mean that if\nyou believe in the absolutes established by the Bible, you are necessarily\nbeing arrogant. A Christian can believe that the Word of God is absolute,\nbut he or she should not expect this to be immediately evident to everyone.\n \n\nNot quite. You say that according to my stance, we cannot *reliably*\ndetermine what is true. That is not what I said. I say that as fallible\nhuman beings, we cannot discern the truth with 100% certainty. The \ndistinction is subtle yet important.\n\nWhen a scientist performs an experiment, he can claim that his results\nare reliable, without claiming that absolutely no mistake whatsoever could\nhave been made. In other words, he can admit that he could be mistaken,\nwithout sacrificing his convictions.\n\nNobody can establish what absolute truth is with 100% certainty.\nThroughout the centuries, philosophers have argued about what we can know\nwith complete certainty and what we cannot. Descartes made a step in the\nright direction when he uttered, \"Cogito, ergo sum,\" yet we have not advanced\nmuch beyond that.\n\nDo you believe that other people aside from you exist? Do you believe that\nthe computer terminal you are using exists? If so, can you be absolutely\ncertain about that? Are you sure it is not some grand illusion? Of course,\nyou have no such assurance. This does not mean, however, that for all\npractical purposes, you can be certain that they exist. So it is with\nChristianity. The most mature Christians I know have deep convictions about\nabsolute morality, yet they acknowledge that there is a non-zero probability \nthat they are wrong. This does not, however, mean that they should (or do) \nabandon these absolutes.\n\n\nAs I said, we can never be absolutely certain that we are correct. This does\nnot mean that we cannot be certain enough, in light of the evidence, to \nrender all doubts unreasonable.\n", "Recently an e-mail to me mentioned:\n\n(Technically, the messengers aren't even human so\nit *can't* be a case of \"homosexuality\" -- even of rape.) [...]\n\nThe Jude reference to Sodom is also meaningful only in the context of\nthe Sodomites' \"lust\" for the \"other flesh\" of angels. Again,\napplication to homosexual behavior in general, or to the position of\ngay Christians is largeely specious.\n***\nAre angels \"flesh\"? No. I feel that this is saying that it was because\nof their lust after other men, who are flesh( or of this world).\n\nwhat are other opinons on this? I haven't heard much about this verse \nat all.\n\nIn Christ's Love,\nBryan", "\nI think this is a weak argument. The fact is, there are *two* references to\nJesus in _Antiquities of the Jews_, one of which has unquestionably at least\nbeen altered by Christians. Origen wrote, in the third century, that\nJosephus did not recognize Jesus as the Messiah, while the long passage\nsays the opposite. There is an Arabic manuscript of _Antiquities of the\nJews_ which contains a version of the passage which is much less gung-ho\nfor Jesus and may be authentic.\n There is no question that Origen, in the third century, saw a reference\nto Jesus in Josephus. There are no manuscripts of _Antiquities_ which\nlack the references.\n\nIt is possible that it was fabricated out of whole cloth and inserted, but\nI don't think it's very likely--nor do I think there is a consensus in\nthe scholarly community that this is the case. (I know G.A. Wells takes\nthis position, but that's because he takes the very small minority view\nthat Jesus never existed. And he is a professor of German, not of\nbiblical history or New Testament or anything directly relevant to\nthe historicity of Jesus.)", "\nAnd does it not say in scripture that no man knows the hour of His coming, not\neven the angels in Heaven but only the Father Himself? DK was trying to play\nGod by breaking the seals himself. DK killed himself and as many of his\nfollowers as he could. BTW, God did save the children. They are in Heaven,\na far better place. How do I know? By faith.\n\nGod be with you,", "\nWoah...The context is about God's calling out a special people (the Jews) to\ncarry the \"promise.\" To read the meaning as literal people is to miss Paul's\nentire point. I'd be glad to send anyone more detailed explanations of this\npassage if interested.", "\nSome people might think it takes faith to be an atheist... but faith in\nwhat? Does it take some kind of faith to say that the Great Invisible Pink\nUnicorn does not exist? Does it take some kind of faith to say that Santa\nClaus does not exist? If it does (and it may for some people I suppose) it\ncertainly isn't as big a leap of faith to say that these things (and god)\nDO exist. (I suppose it depends on your notion and definition of \"faith\".)\n\nBesides... not believing in a god means one doesn't have to deal with all\nof the extra baggage that comes with it! This leaves a person feeling\nwonderfully free, especially after beaten over the head with it for years!\nI agree that religion and belief is often an important psychological healer\nfor many people and for that reason I think it's important. However,\ntrying to force a psychological fantasy (I don't mean that in a bad way,\nbut that's what it really is) on someone else who isn't interested is\nextremely rude. What if I still believed in Santa Claus and said that my\nbelief in Santa did wonderful things for my life (making me a better\nperson, allowing me to live without guilt, etc...) and then tried to get\nyou to believe in Santa too just 'cuz he did so much for me? You'd call\nthe men in white coats as soon as you could get to a phone.\n", "I don't understand who this post is directed towards; who are you\ntrying to convince? By its subject i would assume you are directing\nthe argument towards people who do not believe that Christ rose\nfrom the dead, but in your \"proof,\" you use the bible exclusively.\n\nThe post is therefore immediately useless to anyone who doesn't\nbelieve that the bible is an unadulterated truth, and to everyone\nelse, it is just a reaffirmation of a belief already held. As far\nas i know, there is no disagreement between christians over\nthe resurrection of christ.\n\nso my question is: what is the purpose of this post?\n\ntomas\n", "Benedikt Rosenau writes, with great authority:\n\n\n\"Contradictory\" is a property of language. If I correct this to\n\n\n THINGS DEFINED BY CONTRADICTORY LANGUAGE DO NOT EXIST\n\nI will object to definitions as reality. If you then amend it to\n\n THINGS DESCRIBED BY CONTRADICTORY LANGUAGE DO NOT EXIST\n\nthen we've come to something which is plainly false. Failures in\ndescription are merely failures in description.\n\n(I'm not an objectivist, remember.)\n\n", "\n Romans 10:16-17 \"But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For\n Isaiah says, 'Lord, who has believed our message?' Consequently, faith\n comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word\n of Christ.\"\n\n So then we receive God's gift of faith to us as we hear the message of the\n gospel. Faith is a possible response to hearing God's word preached. Kids\n are not yet spiritually, intellectually, or emotionally mature enough to\n respond to God's word. Hence they cannot have faith and therefore cannot\n be raised in baptism to a new life.\n\nCatholics view the effects of Baptism slightly differently, and that's\none primary reason why they baptize babies. They believe that Baptism\nproduces a change in the soul of the baby, quite independently of any\nvolitional act on the part of the baby. This change in the baby's\nsoul gives the infant certain capabilities that he would not have\nwithout Baptism. Since the infant does not have the use of his\nintellect and will yet, these new faculties are dormant. But as the\nchild gets older, the gifts of Baptism come more and more into play.\n\n Ezekiel 18:20 \"The soul who sins will die. The son will not share the\n guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The\n righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the\n wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.\"\n\n If you read all of Ezekiel 18, you will see that God doesn't hold us guilty\n for anyone else's sins. So we can have no original guilt from Adam.\n\nAdam was given a number of gifts by God. The chief among them was\nwhat Catholics call \"sanctifying grace\". (In the New Testament, the\nword used for this is \"charity\".) By his sin, Adam lost this grace.\nHe didn't lose it just for himself, however, he lost it for the whole\nhuman race. Because once he lost it, he couldn't pass it on to his\ndescendents.\n\nThat's why Catholics baptize babies. Through his Original Sin, Adam\nlost sanctifying grace for all his descendents. Christ instituted\nBaptism to give it back to everyone.", "\n\n\tMay I ask why they are afraid to do so?\n\n---\n\n Speaking of proofs of God, the funniest one I have ever seen was in a\n term paper handed in by a freshman. She wrote, \"God must exist, because\n he wouldn't be so mean as to make me believe he exists if he really\n doesn't!\" Is this argument really so much worse than the ontological\n proofs of the existence of God provided by Anselm and Descartes, among\n others?", "I replied to this query via e-mail, but I think there are some\nissues that are worth discussing in public.\n\n\nI would recommend you to take a look at\n\n1) your dictionary\n2) alt.atheism FAQ files\n\nto notice that atheism is _not_ a belief system, and what is common\nto all atheists is not a belief, but a _lack of belief in deities_.\nI cannot imagine how anyone could do research on atheism without\npaying careful attention to this issue. \n\n\nIMHO, this is a poor method to do any real survey, although I'm sure the\nreplies might keep you amused for hours.\n\n\nNo, I do _not_ know what you mean. If you are surveying our individual\nphilosophies, fine, but that's not strictly atheism. Atheism is not\njust another, godless version of the theistic explanations for life,\nthe universe and everything. It is not a belief system, and it could\nhardly be called a philosophical system.\n\nOnce more: Atheism is characterised by lack of belief in deities. \nDo not twist the meaning, or assume that we have some kind of\nphilosophy we all agree on.\n\nSome comments on your questions:\n\n\nI would also like to hear more about this. Have we been able to 'convert'\nanyone?\n\n\nThis question contains a contradiction in terms. _Beliefs_ \ncannot be acquired rationally - if they could, they would not be \nbeliefs! You also seem to have rather strange ideas of how people become\natheists - those who are alienated from religion do not necessarily\nbecome atheists, they just think very little about religion. It seems\nit requires a considerable time of honest inquiry to find out that\nreligions are actually intellectually dishonest virtual realities.\n\nThose who have never had beliefs will certainly find this question\nquite odd - how can lack of belief be acquired? When did I acquire\nlack of belief in the Easter Bunny? (I did believe in Santa, though ;-))\n\n\nThis question does not make any sense, since atheism does not deal with\nthese issues - it is not a worldview, or a philosophy, or a belief system.\n\nSigh, why haven't I seen a good, well-thought survey in the Usenet\nfor three years... and what is the point of doing surveys in the net,\nanyway? Just to abstract some opinions?\n\nPetri\n", "Regarding the consequences of the original sin:\n\nCatholics believe that what Adam primarily lost by his sin, for\nhimself and the human race, was sanctifying grace. This is basically\na share in the Divine life. Take a rock and make it able to talk:\nwhat God does to a human being through sanctifying grace is similar.\nIt makes such a one able to live on a plane that is above the powers\nof any possible creature. This is the \"everlasting life\" that the New\nTestament speaks of.\n\nWhat Christ did when he came was to restore this life of sanctifying\ngrace to the human race. He instituted the Sacraments as the means by\nwhich this life is given to people, and its increase fostered.\n\nThe absence of sanctifying grace at death means automatic exclusion\nfrom Heaven. The nature of Heaven is such that it's impossible for a\nhuman being to have any part in it without the gift of sanctifying\ngrace. To use my example, it would be like taking that rock and\nattempting to hold a conversation with it: rocks cannot talk. Neither\ncan human beings live in Heaven without sanctifying grace.\n\nThis all obviously applies equally well to infants or adults, since\nboth have souls. Infants must be baptized, therefore, or they cannot\nenter into Heaven. They too need this form of life in them, or they\ncannot enter into Heaven.\n\nTurning it around, infant baptism is good supporting evidence for the\nCatholic belief in sanctifying grace. Unless Baptism causes some\nchange in an infant's soul, there is no particular reason to insist on\nthe practice. Yet infant Baptism was probably practiced by the\nApostles themselves, and was *certainly* part of the Church shortly\nthereafter.", "Jim Brown wrote :\n\n[ deleted ]\n[ deleted ]\n\n Unfortunately, it's not that simple. The KJV is preferred by the majority\nof fundamentalists (at least here). The second part of your argument fails\nas well, since that statement can be used against any version (not just the\nKJV).\n\n[ deleted ]\n[ deleted ]\n\n I would not find this statement to be very useful since it is an appeal\nto authority and the opposition will just claim that their authorities are\n\"better\". A second tact that local creationists have used is to reply \"but\nthose scholars are atheists and cannot be believed\" (they will also use this\nphrase to describe any theologians that they don't agree with).\n\n[ deleted ]\n[ deleted ]", "\n\nThere is a certain truth to this statement. Only I would use the word\n\"medicine\" instead of drug. With regard to the condition of the human\nsoul, Christianity is first and foremost a healing medicine. It also\nstrengthens and enables one, as healing takes hold, to grow in new\nstrength and health to live and be and to do that for which God created \nus.\n\n\nChrist's medicine, rightly allowed to work, brings one nearer to\nreality and offers the clarity of understanding and the strength\nof spirit with which to meet it in a healthy human way.\n\n\n(small spelling correction added)", " \n(Deletion)\n \nWell, yes, but that belongs in the other group, there is a interpretation\nfound for everything. However, allowing any form of interpretation reduces\nthe information of the text so interprteted to zero.\n \nBy the way, I have checked the quote and I think the lines preceding those\nquoted above are more interesting:\n \n 21:32 where mountains are set on earth in order to immobilize the earth.\n 21:33 where the skies (heavens?) are referred to as well supported.\n \nthe lines given above are 21:34 after my edition.\n \n ", "Kent Sandvik and Jon Livesey made essentially the same response, so this\ntime Kent's article gets the reply:\n\n\nThis begs the question of whether it ever \"started\"-- perhaps because\naccuracy was always an intention.\n\n\nIt makes little difference if you have eyewitnesses or people one step away\n(reporters, if you will). As I said earlier, the \"telephone\" metaphor is\ninnately bad, because the purpose of a game of telephone is contrary to the\naims of writing these sorts of texts. (Also, I would point out that, by the\nstandards generally asserted in this group, the distinction between\neyewitnesses and others is hollow, since nobody can be shown to be an\neyewitness, or indeed, even shown to be the author of the text.)\n\nThere is no evidence that the \"original\" texts of either the OT or the NT\nare largely lost over time in a sea of errors, \"corrections\", additions and\ndeletions. In the case of the NT, the evidence is strongly in the other\ndirection: the Textus R. and the Nestle-Aland text do not differ on more\nthan a low level of significance. It is reasonable to assume a similar\nsituation for the OT, based on the NT as a model.", "\nMy Native American Girlfriend asks: \"If the government really doesn't\n'care a hill of beans' about our religion, how come they're still\nbusting us for it in Oregon, Washington, and a few other places?\nYou'd be a Christian, too, if the U.S. Army marched you into church\nat gunpoint.\"", "\n\n\nYes, I suppose that's true. Of course, notice I qualified with NEARLY\nevery language :-). And there are missionaries out there who can\nspeak every imaginable language AND dialect. But then, the fact that\nnot all languages have a WRITTEN gospel lends no credence to the \nconcept of \"pentecost\" type xenoglossolalia since most tongues occur not\nin these places of un-written language, but rather in churches full\nof people who do have a written language and a Bible in that language.", "But wouldn't that go for any sin. My father told me when he was growing\nup Catholics were not allowed to associate with anyone who was divorced.\nThere are a few verses prohibitting divorce. Somehow, divorce became\nacceptable (even in Catholicism anullments). Certainly it is no longer\na sin to associate with a divorced person. The point is that each person\nhas their own temptations to deal with. Paul repeatedly talks about the\n\"thorn\" in his side, some think it refers to lust, others pride, but\nwho knows. Whatever the thorn was, apparently it was not \"compatible\"\nwith Christianity, yet does that make his epistles any less? The Bible\nwarns us against judging, greed, anxiety, impure thoughts, bearing grudges,\netc., etc. I suppose we should seek out all the so-called Christians\nwho have entertained impure thoughts and oust them. All those who have\ngiven in to greed, get 'em outta here. Jesus pointed out that he\nwas the physician for the sinners. Any attempts to make homosexuals\nfeel unwelcome because of our discomfort with homosexuality is incompatible\nwith Christianity. Is our hatred so deep that rather than see someone\ntry to become closer to Jesus, we need to keep them away. Does Jesus need\nus to screen out those guilty of a particular sin. Do we really mistrust \nJesus when he says he can forgive any sin?\n\nThink about it. Among the people Jesus encountered were sinners and\nthe Pharisees. The sinners he embraced and forgave. The Pharisees,\nhypocritcal, unmerciful, self-righteous, pointed out others sins and\ndid not seek and thus did not gain forgiveness of their own sins. What\nI take from this and other verses is that if we do not admit our sins,\nthose sins will not be forgiven. And since those guilty of even one sin\nare guilty of the whole law, those not repenting the judging of others\nare guilty, as guilty as if they committed the same sin they judged others\nof.\n\nThe poor in spirit, meek, humble, merciful, pure of heart, peacemakers, \nthose who thirst for justice, those who suffer for His sake are blessed.", "\nActually, an apostle is someone who is sent. If you will, mailmen could\nbe called apostles in that sense. However, with Jesus, they were\ndesignated and were given power. Remember that there were many\nthousands of people who witnessed what Jesus did. That didn't make them\napostles, though.", "In <1993Apr24.214843.10940@midway.uchicago.edu> eeb1@quads.uchicago.edu\n\n\nIf the ONLY people proposing a \"moment of silence\" are doing so as a\nsham to sneak in prayers, then it MUST be opposed. What the HELL have\nprayers to do with public schooling? [I ask this question as a devout\nChristian.]\n\n\n\nTheir kids can bloody-well pray any God-damned time they WANT to. And\nnothing, on heaven or earth, in government or the principal's office,\ncan prevent or in any other way deal with their doing so. *Especially*\nif the prayer is silent (as bursting out into the \"Shema Yisrael\" or\nsome other prayer *might* be construed as disruptive if audible :-))\nNo one ever prevented ME from praying in public school! They hardly\neven prevented me from masturbating in study hall.\n\nI should have thought better of someone posting from a UChicago address.\nHow can you manage to say such nonsense without shame?\n\nMuslim students might have a complaint, if they are prevented from setting\nout their rugs and doing the proper ablutions before prayer at the times\nspecified in the Qu'ran. Jews would probably like the opportunity to daven\nwith tefillim and whatever else *they* require, at *their* appropriate times.\nI do not see THEM complaining (though Muslims and Jews have a case that no\nChristian I have ever heard has been able to make.)\n\nThe \"Christian\" insistence on a PUBLIC, UNIVERSAL, ENFORCED \"moment of\nprayer^H^H^H^H^H^Hsilence\" is nothing but the Inquisition \"naturalized\"\ninto the American context. It is offensive to the Gospel of Christ.", "OFM replies to a question on the multiplicity of translations of the bible,\n\n\nUnfortunately, this isn't true. On another news group earlier this year,\nsomeone posted that the King James Bible was the divinely inspired version\nof the Bible in English and was, therefore, inerrant; all other English\ntranslations were from Satan, trying to deceive the body of Christ. A\nfew years ago, the pastor of a church I was attending showed me a poster\nadvertising the availability of a certain man to address congregations.\nVery prominantly on the poster was the fact that the man used only the KJV.\nThe idea that the KJV is THE English Bible is more prevalent than many\nmight think.\n\n -- Scott at Brandeis", " \n \nI read somewhere, I think in Morton Smith's _Jesus the Magician_, that\nold Lazarus wasn't dead, but going in the tomb was part of an initiation\nrite for a magi-cult, of which Jesus was also a part. It appears that\na 3-day stay was normal. I wonder .... ?", "I recall a discussion I had heard years ago. It went something like this: \nThe problem with omnipotence (at least as I perceive it) as personified by \nthe christian God ideal is that it is potentially contradictory. If a \nmanifestation such as God is truly infinite in power can God place limits \nupon itself?\n.\n.\nSome stuff I can't recall.\nThen some other questions I think I recall correctly:\nCan God unmake itself?\nCan God make itself (assuming it doesn't yet exist)?\nHas God has always existed or is it necessary for an observer to bind all of\nGods potential quantum states into reality?\nWas God nothing more than a primordial force of nature that existed during\nthe earliest stages of universal (inflationary?) creation?\nIs God a vacuum fluctuation?\nGiven a great enough energy density could we re-create God?\nWould that make US God and God something else?\n.\n.\nSome more stuff I don't recall concerning creating God. Followed by:\nIs God self-aware?\nIs it necessary that God be self-aware?\nIs God a living entity?\nIs it necessay that God be a living entity?\nIs God unchanging or does it evolve?\n.\n.\nAny comments? Post them so that others might benefit from the open inquiry\nand resulting discussion.", "\nI wouldn't and don't. I thought I did a pretty good job of\nqualifying my statement, but apparently some people\nmisinterpreted my intentions. I apologize for my part in\ncommunicating any confusion. My intent was more to\nstir up discussion rather than judge. It seems to\nhave worked.\n\n[rest of post noted - by the way, I did not originally post this to\nalt.atheism. If it got there, I don't know how it did.]\n", "\nI hope I didn't award custody, Rich. I purposely used \"handle\" in order to \navoid doing so - i.e., that happens to be what religions do (of course there are\naberrations like \"scientific\" creationism). I used \"best\" in part to indicate \nthat science currently has a time of it with why and who, so these domains are\nmostly ignored. I also attempted to be brief, which no doubt confused the\nmatter. As an aside, for science I should have written \"how and when\". Nobody\nseems to argue over what.\n\n\nSeems to me that the answer would vary from individual to individual. I'm not\ntrying to be evasive on this, but from a societal perspective, religion works.\nOn the other hand, sometimes it is abused and misused, and many suffer, which\nyou know. But the net result seems positive, this from the anthropological\nperspective on human affairs. You might call me a neo-Fruedian insofar as I \nthink the masses can't get along without religion. Not that generally they are \nincapable; they just don't, and for myriad reasons, but the main one seems to \nbe the promise of immortality. Very seductive, that immortality. Therefore \nit seems that theologians are better equipped than the others you mention for \ndispensing answers to \"who and why\". I suggest that this holds regardless of \nthe \"truth\" in their answers to who and why simply because people believe. \nIn the end, spiritual beliefs are just as \"real\" as scientific facts and \nexplanation (CAUTION TO SOME: DO NOT TAKE THIS OUT OF CONTEXT). \n\n\nNo. In fact, I don't think it is closed now, at least for some individuals. \nIsn't there a group of theoretical physicists who argue that matter was \ncreated from nothing in a Big Bang singularity? This approach might \npresuppose an absence of who and why, except that it seems it could be argued \nthat something had to be responsible for nothing? Maybe that something doesn't\nhave to be supernatural, maybe just mechanistic. But that's a tough one for\npeople today to grasp. In any case, theory without empirical data is not \nexplanation, but then your question does not require data. In other words, \nI agree that theorizing (within scientific parameters) is just as scientific \nas explaining. So the answer is, who and why are not closed to scientists, but \nI sense that science in these realms is currently very inadequate. Data will \nbe necessary for improvement, and that seems a long way off, if ever. Pretty \nconvoluted here; I hope I've made sense. \n\n\nI agree generally. But I prefer to put it this way - the *questions* of how, \nwhen, who and why were not open to inquiry. During the Enlightenment, \nreason was reponsible for questioning the theological answers to how and when, \nand not, for the most part, who and why. Science was thus born out of the \nnaturalists' curiosity, eventually carting away the how and when while largely \nleaving behind the who and why. The ignorant, the selfish, the intolerant, and\nthe arrogant, of course, still claim authority in all four domains.\n\n\n\nMuch obliged. Funny how facts tend to muddle things, isn't it? Well, I am\nsure there are plenty of \"scientific\" creationist \"rebuttals\" out there \nsomewhere, even if they have to be created from nothing.\n\n[just for the record, again, AMH = anatomically modern humans] \n\nBest regards :-),", "\n > A Christian friend of mine once reasoned that if we were never\n > created, we could not exists. Therefore we were created, and\n > therefore there exists a Creator.\n\nI hesitate to comment on the validity of this, because I do not know\nwhat your friend meant by it. If he meant that whatever exists must\nhave been created, then he is open to the obvious retort that God\nexists, and so God must have been created.\n\nPerhaps your friend meant that we exist now but that there was a\ntime when we did not exist, and therefore something other than\nourselves must have brought us into existence. This seems plausible,\nbut an atheist might reply, \"So my parents engendered me. So what?\"\nHere your friend would have to explain why an infinite regress of\ncauses is not a satisfactory explanation. He would have some support\nfrom philosophers who are not ordinarily considered religious (Ayn\nRand, and some others who are in the tradition of Aristotle). Having\nargued for a First Cause, he would have to bridge the gap between\nsaid entity and the God of Abraham. If he merely asserts that the\nthings we observe are ultimately dependent on things radically\nunlike them, few physicists would disagree.", "On 12-Apr-93 in Environmentalism and paganism\n\nAnd what of those of us who already have answers to their questions without\nturning to christianity (or, in my case, any religion)? Whay RIGHT do you\nhave to presume to lecture me about what I should believe??", "Reply-To: pwhite@empros.com\n \n \nHere in America people tend to think of choosing a church much like they\nthink of choosing a car or a country club. What I mean is that our \nculture is such that we tend towards satisfying our own wants rather\nthan considering things with others in mind and not making prayer \nan initial and primary part of the decision process. People tend to\ntreat church as they would a club and when something is less than to\ntheir liking, off they go to another one.\n\nI think that scripture presents the idea that God takes a different \nperspective on the \"church choosing process\". It seems to me from 1Cor 12\nthat God doesn't subscribe to the idea of us choosing a church at all\nbut that he places us in the body as he wants us. So, I think a better\nquestion is not how do I choose a church but how do I figure out where\nGod is trying to place me.\n\nIf a person was instrumental in leading you to Christ, the church they\ngo to is a logical first choice. You have been born into the family of\nGod. People should hop around from church to church as often as they\nhop from natural family to family.\n\nIf you met the Lord on your own (so to speak) there may not be an \neasily identifiable church to try for starters. Here you are more\nlike an orphan. Prayerfully go and \"leave yourself on a few doorsteps\"\nand see if anyplace feels like home. \n\nI wouldn't expect that God want to place you in a church where you\nhave difficulty fitting in with the people, but on the other hand\nthere are no perfect churches. If you have an attitude of looking\nfor problems you will both find them and make them. On the other hand\nif you have an attitude of love and committment, you will spread that\nwherever you go. \n\nIn general, I think that God will try to place you in a church that\ntalks about the Lord in the way that you have come to know him and is\nexpanding on that base.", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\nYeah, do you expect people to read the FAQ, etc. and actually accept hard\natheism? No, you need a little leap of faith, Jimmy. Your logic runs out\nof steam!\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nJim,\n\nSorry I can't pity you, Jim. And I'm sorry that you have these feelings of\ndenial about the faith you need to get by. Oh well, just pretend that it will\nall end happily ever after anyway. Maybe if you start a new newsgroup,\nalt.atheist.hard, you won't be bummin' so much?\n\n\n\n\n\n\nBye-Bye, Big Jim. Don't forget your Flintstone's Chewables! :) \n--\nBake Timmons, III", "A \"new Christian\" wrote that he was new to the faith and \nlearning about it \"by reading the Bible, of course\". I am not\nat all sure this is the best path to follow.\n\tWhile the Bible is, for Christians, the word of God, the \nrevelation of God is Jesus Christ and the chief legacy of this\nrevalation is the Church. I am not recommending any one\ndenommination, but I do recommend finding a comfortable christian\ncongregation in which to develop your faith, rather than just\nreading the Bible.\n\tThis does not mean that the Bible should not be read, although\nI would stick to the Gospels, epistles, and Psalms and avoid the\nBook of Revelation altogether [until you are with friends you are\ncomfortable with]. I am sure that mistakenly fervent projects to\nread the entire Bible have frequently bogged down with a remarkable\nlack of fervour somewhere in the middle of Leviticus, or for the really\nsturdy, somewhere in Chronicles.\n\tThe point is that the Bible is their to illustrate the Faith\nof Christians, but does not provide the totality of that faith. Vital\nbeliefs of virtually all Christians are simply not mentioned -\nthe Trinity, the duality of natures in Christ, types of Church\norganization. All these beliefs and practices have developed from the\nlived experience of the Christian people, an experience lived one\nhopes in the Spirit. As such the Bible, I think, is better studies\nin the context of a congregation, and the context of other reading.\n\tFollowing up on a suggestion of an old confessor of mine, I \nwould even suggest that a good novel is a good way to reflect on the\nchristian life. [Most novels of any profundity are actually discussing\nthe nature of good and evil in the human heart]. My own induction into\nthe christian faith was brought about [after grace] through reading\nGraham Greene: _The Power and the Glory_ and the poetry of Gerard\nManley Hopkins. I would also recommend Graham Greene's _Monsignor\nQuixote_ and any novel by Iris Murdoch. The last is not even a Christian,\nbut such is her insistence on the need for the good life, that, frankly,\nI often am more uplifted and God directed after reading her than after\nreading many parts of the Bible. And that after all is what being\na Christian is all about: letting your soul and your life be, in\nsome way, directed towards the infinite, represented to us by\nthe person of Jesus Christ.", "\n\n\nThis is something I've always found a little curious. I've never quite understood\nthe trinity thing. On the one hand, Jesus is supposed to be God incarnate. But,\nat the same time, he is God's son \"For God so loved the world that he gave his\nonly begotten son\". First question is, if Jesus was God in human form, how could\nhe really be God's son? If the Holy Ghost \"planted the seed\" in Mary, so to speak,\nthen it seems that Jesus' relationship to God would be the equivalent to the\nhuman father/son relationship. While a son might inherit alot of the father's \nqualities, he is not the father. They are still two separite entities. To try\nand say that a son is the same person as the father is obviously wrong. In that\ncase, Jesus and God aren't the same. On the other hand, if their relationship\nisn't the same as the human father/son relationship, but Jesus is actually God\nincarnate, then he's not really God's son and he never was. He's just God\nmanifesting himself as Jesus. At least, this is how I'm seeing it. Can someone\nwho is more knowledgeable about the trinity enlighten us? \n\nGetting back to the original question, what is the great price that Jesus paid\nto redeem our sins? Was it dying on the cross? Since Jesus knew that he would\nrise again in 3 days and then ascend back to heaven, I have a hard time seeing\nhow this is considered paying such a great price for humanity. His earthly body\nmay have been killed, but then, so what? He suffered a few hours of physical\npain, but then, there has been many a human who has suffered a great deal more.\nThe fact that Jesus was God's only begotten son doesn't seem to me to have much\nmeaning since God can beget as many sons as he wants to. Jesus being the only\none was simply a matter of choice. I suspect that these questions will be very\noffensive to many Christians on this net. To those people, please accept my\nsincere apologies. It is not my intention to offend or to trivialize Christ.\nBut, I do believe these are legitimate questions and I am genuinely curious.\n \n[Note that the Trinity and Incarnation have to be looked at together.\nFirst, your reading of the Virgin Birth is an uncommon one. (In this\ngroup, it's dangerous to say that no one believes something.) You\nseem to be suggesting the Jesus is God's son in a physical sense,\nwith the Holy Spirit as Father and Mary as Mother. I consider that\nterrible heresy, though some people react less violently. The Virgin\nBirth says that Jesus' birth is God's responsibility. But it doesn't\nimply that God's sperm was involved. Indeed one (though by no means\nthe only) speculation is that God used Joseph's genetic material.\n\nSecond, Jesus is in some sense doubly indirect from the Father. In a\nTrinitarian context, the term Son refers to the eternal Logos, who is\na part of God. The Son didn't come into existence with Jesus' birth.\nJesus is the incarnation of the Son. So his sonness isn't\nspecifically a result of being incarnated. Rather, it's the Son\nwho was incarnated.", "\n\nHmm...are you a Taoist? Imposing limits *does* do something useful...it gives\nyou something to go beyond.\n\n\nI tend to be a bit critical of any stratification of Taoism. I especially\ntend to frown on any suggestion that \"orthodoxy\" or \"classics\" have any\nspecial place in Tao.\n\n\nSo rather than debate what \"Taoism *REALLY* means\" you are suggesting that\nwe take someone else's word for it and work thusly? I'd rather not, thank\nyou.\n\n\nWhereas you, of course, have a clear idea of what the word means? Can\nyou tell the Tao? :-)\n\n\nWonderful idea.\n\n\nOnly if you choose to define failure in that way. Or to define it at all.\n\n\n", "God CAN be seen:\n \"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts.\"\n (Ex. 33:23)\n \"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his\n friend.\" (Ex. 33:11)\n \"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.\"\n (Gen. 32:30)\nGod CANNOT be seen:\n \"No man hath seen God at any time.\" (John 1:18)\n \"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man\n see me and live.\" (Ex. 33:20)\n \"Whom no man hath seen nor can see.\" (1 Tim. 6:16)", "\n \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nSure. Yes, I did. You see I don't think that rape and murder should\nbe dealt with lightly. You, being so interested in leniency for\nleniency's sake, apparently think that people should simply be\ntold the \"did a _bad_ thing.\"\n\n\n\nMisjudgments should be avoided as much as possible.\nI suspect that it's pretty unlikely that, given my requirement\nof repeated offenses, that misjudgments are very likely.\n\n \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nReally? Care to give chapter and verse? We could discuss it.\n\n\n \n\nAgain, not all of the Orient follows the Qur'an. So you'll have to do\nbetter than that.\n\n\nSorry, you haven't \"put out\" enough.\n\n \n\n\n \n\n\n\nThis is an argument for why _you_ don't like religions that suppress\nsex. A such it's an irrelevant argument.\n\nIf you'd like to generalize it to an objective statement then \nfine. My response is then: you have given no reason for your statement\nthat sex is not the business of religion (one of your \"arguments\").\n\nThe urge for sex in adolescents is not so strong that any overly strong\nmeasures are required to suppress it. If the urge to have sex is so\nstrong in an adult then that adult can make a commensurate effort to\nfind a marriage partner.\n\n", "\n\n\tHey, it might to interesting to read some of these posts...\nEspecially from ones who still regularly posts on alt.atheism!\n\n\n\n\tHee hee hee.\n\n\t*I* ain't going to say....\n\n--- \n\n \" Whatever promises that have been made can than be broken. \"", "\n\nNo, Bobby. Stalin killed millions in the name of Socialism. Atheism was a\ncharacteristic of the Lenin-Stalin version of Socialism, nothing more.\nAnother characteristic of Lenin-Stalin Socialism was the centralization of\nfood distribution. Would you therefore say that Stalin and Lenin killed\nmillions in the name of rationing bread? Of course not.\n\n\n\nIn earlier posts you stated that true (Muslim) believers were incapable of\nevil. I suppose if you believe that, you could reason that no one has ever\nbeen killed in the name of religion. What a perfect world you live in,\nBobby. \n\n\n\nBobby is referring to a rather obscure law in _The Good Atheist's \nHandbook_:\n\nLaw XXVI.A.3: Give that which you do not believe in a face. \n\nYou must excuse us, Bobby. When we argue against theism, we usually argue\nagainst the Christian idea of God. In the realm of Christianity, man was\ncreated in God's image. \n", "Concerning Christians praying for coporate forgiveness of national sins, \nMichael Covington claims the following of C.S. Lewis:\n\n<><\n\nI was surprised when I heard this same kind of remark from a fellow grad. \nstudent I know, especially since he had seminary training. I have read the \nsame essay and do not find Lewis making any such claim. Rather, Lewis is \ncondemning the use of such coporate prayer efforts as platforms to make \npolitical jabs at opponents, feigned as confessions of guilt (ie., Lord please \nforgive us for allowing \"insert political issue/idea/platform\" to exist in our\ncountry, it is wrong and we ask your forgiveness.). I would be interested in\nknowing what part of the essay you feel condemns national repentance (please\nquote).", "\n\nEarly in Church history, the catechumens were dismissed prior to the celebration \nof the Eucharist. It WAS secret, giving rise to the rumors that Christians\nwere cannibals and all sorts of perverse claims. The actions were considered\ntoo holy to be observed by non-Christians, as well as potentially dangerous\nfor the individual Christian who might be identified.\n\nLarry Overacker (llo@shell.com)\n-- ", "IMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM;\n : T H E W I T N E S S & P R O O F O F :\n : :\n : J E S U S C H R I S T ' S R E S U R R E C T I O N :\n : :\n : F R O M T H E D E A D :\n HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM<\n\n* The WITNESS Of The LORD JESUS CHRIST:\n\nMark 8:31 And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer\n many things and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests\n and the scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nMark 9:31 For He was teaching His disciples and telling them, \"The Son\n of Man is to be delivered into the hands of men, and they will\n kill Him; and when He has been killed, He will rise three days\n later.\" ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n ^^^^^\nMark 10:34 \"And they will mock Him and spit upon Him, and scourge Him,\n and kill Him, and three days later He will rise again.\"\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nMark 12:26 \"But regarding the fact that the dead rise again, have you\n not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the burning\n bush, how God spoke to him, saying, 'I am the God of Abraham, and\n the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'?\n\nLuke 18:33 and after they have scourged Him, they will kill Him; and\n the third day He will rise again. \"\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nLuke 24:46 and He said to them, \"Thus it is written, that the Christ\n should suffer and rise again from the dead the third day;^^^^^^\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nJohn 11:25 Jesus said to her, \"I am the resurrection and the life; he\n who believes in Me shall live even if he dies,\n\nJohn 20:9 For as yet they did not understand the Scripture, that He\n must rise again from the dead. ^^\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nActs 17:3 ...explaining and giving evidence that the Christ had to\n suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying, \"This Jesus whom\n I am proclaiming to you is the Christ.\"\n\n* The WITNESS Of The APOSTLE PAUL: 1 Corinthians 15:1-26\n\n 1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to\n you, which also you received, in which also you stand,\n\n 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I\n preached to you, unless you believed in vain.\n\n 3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received,\n that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,\n\n 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day\n according to the Scriptures, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\n 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.\n\n 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one\n time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;\n\n 7 then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles;\n\n 8 and last of all, as it were to one untimely born, He appeared to me\n also.\n\n 9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not fit to be called an\n apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.\n\n10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did\n not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I,\n but the grace of God with me.\n\n11 Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.\n\n12 Now if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead,\n how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?\n\n13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has\n been raised;\n\n14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your\n faith also is vain.\n\n15 Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we\n witnessed against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise,\n if in fact the dead are not raised.\n\n16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised;\n\n17 and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are\n still in your sins.\n\n18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.\n\n19 If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most\n to be pitied.\n\n20 BUT NOW CHRIST HAS BEEN RAISED FROM THE DEAD, the first fruits of\n those who are asleep.\n\n21 For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection\n of the dead.\n\n22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive.\n\n23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those\n who are Christ's at His coming,\n\n24 then comes the end, when He delivers up the kingdom to the God and\n Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.\n\n25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.\n\n26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death.\n\n\n LOGICAL PROOFS OF JESUS CHRIST'S RESURRECTION\n\n 1. Jesus's enemies *would not* have stolen His\n body because that would have perpetrated the\n resurrection--the very opposite of what they\n desired.\n\n 2. Jesus' disciples *could not* have stolen His\n body because Pontius Pilate established guards\n to stand watch over the tomb lest His body be\n stolen.\n\n 3. Sadly (and ironically), many of Jesus' disciples\n did not believe in the Resurrection until Jesus\n had risen from the dead.\n\n 4. In nearly 20 centuries, no body has ever been\n produced to refute Jesus' assertion that He\n *would indeed* rise from the dead.", "930425 \n\n\nRome was under attack by barbarians, they sent for advice to some Oracle,\nand she said Worship Cybele and you'll be saved. They did, they were.\n\nCybele was the quintessential wiccan goddess, there was Her and her son &\nlover, Attis. Yucky idea if you ask me. OK the book says she was Phrygian,\nfrom the neolithic matriarchal society Catal Huyuk (Turkey). Worshipped 1st\nas Black Stone (that Kaaba in Mecca ring a bell maybe????) Carried to Rome\nin 205BC to save them from Hannibal.\n\n\nResponse:\n\nIs there some relation between the name 'Cybele' and the phenemenon of the\n'sibyl'? Your paragraph above seems to indicate there might be.\n\nMy understanding is that Islam was founded on the remains of a goddess\ncult or two. Many Muslims would not like to hear that. ;>\n\n\nYou:\n\nIt gets more interesting. Romans called her Great Mother (Magna Mater),\ncould be the reason why so many of those Mary statues in Europe are black,\nprob. IS connected to that Ka'aba they've got in Mecca, 3rd cent. AD She was\nsupreme Goddess in Lyons, France . . . Attis was castrated and formed into\na pine tree . . . she should be worshiped on 25 Mar . . . in Rome it was\nan ecstatic cult, her priests wore drag, worked themselves up in dance and\ncastrated themselves in order to initiate to her, lived their lives as women.\nThey wore make up and jewelry and the whole bit.\n\nOnly other such primitive transsexualism I know of goes on in India (where\nelse?) where they do that castration thing under some meditation maybe, I\nforget by now...there's a book on that.)\n\nOf course, that excepts that weird Russian / Romanian 18th cent. Xian cult\nthat did all kinds of self-castration too, I forget their name.\n\n\nResponse:\n\nI'd love to get details or references on any of the above. My own exploration\nof this issue has only extended to a brief examination of the Zuni 'berdache'.\n_The Zuni Man-Woman_, by Will Roscoe, University of New Mexico Press, 1991\nprobably has some interesting things to say about them. I've yet to\nprocure it.\n\nAny details or references on:\n\nEcstatic cults in Rome, India, Russia/Romania (Christian too?) which\nexhibit any type of transsexualism or transvestitism, male OR female\n(though I expect mostly the former will be found ;>).\n\n\nThanks for your interesting posts, Charles. :>\n", "Some thoughts:\n\n[A. On the non-pacifist side:]\n\n(1) Killing to defend the innocent may be, if anything, _more_ justifiable\nthan killing in self-defense. I can turn my _own_ other cheek, but I have\nno right to turn someone else's.\n\n(2) It seems to me that if Jesus had meant to teach pacifism, He would have\nmade His position more explicit. He didn't tell the centurion to leave the\narmy, for instance; and the NT is full of military metaphors.\n\n[B. On the pacifist side:]\n\n(1) Apparently many early Christians refused to fight in the Roman army,\nor stated that one should refuse if given a choice. But it's not clear\nwhether they were objecting to war _per se_, or objecting to Roman policies.\n\n(2) In modern warfare, it seems to be impossible to direct attacks only at\ncombatants. Bombing, both conventional and nuclear, kills lots of civilians.\n\n(3) It's hard to tell whether any _particular_ war is justified at the time.\nOften it takes decades for the requisite information to become available\nto the general public.\n\nPlease, NO EMAIL REPLIES -- this is meant as a contribution to a public\ndiscussion, and anyone wanting to reply should also reply publicly.", "04 May 93, D. Andrew Byler writes to All:\n\n DAB> I think I need to again post the Athanasian Creed, whicc pretty well\n DAB> delinieates orthodox Christian belief on the Trinity, and on the\n DAB> Incarnation.\n\n DAB> It's a pretty good statement of the beliefs eventually accpeted, and the\n DAB> Creed is in use by the Catholic Church, as well as the Lutheran,\n DAB> Anglican, and Orthodox churches (the last minus the filioque, which they\n DAB> delete from the original form of the creed).\n\nDo you have any evidence that it is used by the Orthodox Churches?\n\nAs far as I know it is purely Western, like the \"Apostles' Creed\". The\nOrthodox Churches use the \"Symbol of Faith\", commonly called \"The\nNicene Creed\".\n\nSteve Hayes\nDepartment of Missiology\nUniversity of South Africa", "\n\nWhat is your reaction to people who claim they were abducted by space aliens?\n\nSome of these people say, \"I was abducted, experimented on, etc.\"\nIf we insist that these aliens don't exist is the burden of proof placed on\nus. These people can give no hard facts but can give a lot of testimony to\nback up their beliefs.\n\nReplace with , , , \nand we have a larger percentage of the population than I like to think\nabout.", "\n: Regardless of people's hidden motivations, the stated reasons for many\n: wars include religion. Of course you can always claim that the REAL\n: reason was economics, politics, ethnic strife, or whatever. But the\n: fact remains that the justification for many wars has been to conquer\n: the heathens.\n\n: If you want to say, for instance, that economics was the chief cause\n: of the Crusades, you could certainly make that point. But someone\n: could come along and demonstrate that it was REALLY something else, in\n: the same manner you show that it was REALLY not religion. You could\n: in this manner eliminate all possible causes for the Crusades.\n: \n\nScott,\n\nI don't have to make outrageous claims about religion's affecting and\neffecting history, for the purpsoe of a.a, all I have to do point out\nthat many claims made here are wrong and do nothing to validate\natheism. At no time have I made any statement that religion was the\nsole cause of anything, what I have done is point out that those who\ndo make that kind of claim are mistaken, usually deliberately. \n\nTo credit religion with the awesome power to dominate history is to\nmisunderstand human nature, the function of religion and of course,\nhistory. I believe that those who distort history in this way know\nexaclty what they're doing, and do it only for affect.", "\nI finished reading a very good book, \"The Will of God\", Weatherhead.\nThis was very helpful to me in applying thought to the subject of the\nwill of God.\n\nWeatherhead broke the will of God into three distinct parts;\nintentional will, circumstancial will, and ultimate will. He\n(Weatherhead) also refuted the last statement (above) by Michael\nParkin above quite nicely.\n\nSummarizing; _despite_ the failures of humankind, God's ultimate will\nis never to be defeated. God's intentions may be interfered with,\neven temporarily defeated by the will of humankind, brought down by\ncircumstance. His ultimate will (the reconcilication of all\nhumankind) will never be stopped.\n\nTime after time, Weatherhead used the Cross as the best description of\nthis process at work. His points, paraphrased, were 1) God's\nintentional will was for Jesus, the Christ, to live out a full life\nand perform the work of the Living God. 2) The failures, sins, and\ndeviousness of humankind frustrated God's intent for His Son. 3)\nDespite the circumstance, God's ultimate will was revealed in the\nCross, as Jesus willingly (\"not my will, Lord, but yours\") died for\nthe redemption of all humankind. The Cross was utterly triumphant,\novercoming even the most cruel of circumstances.\n\n\nIt was not the intentional will of God. It was the circumstancial\nwill, thus enabling the victory of the ultimate will.\n\n\n\nRight, intentional will.\n\n(Just like the Jewish people\n\nWe know neither the time nor the place. He will return as a thief in the night.\n\nPeace.\n\nRob\n", "\n\nSo true. I'm not sure of the basis of the belief, but it was a widely\nheld belief among the laity of the RC church and their support of it\nlead to it being declared to be true. Basically the teaching on infallibility\nholds that the pope is infallible in matters of faith and doctrine, the\ncollege of bishops is likewise infallible, and the laity is as well.\nThe pope gets most of the attention/criticism but the consensus of the\nother bodies is equally infallible (according to RC teaching).", "\nRef: Encyclopedia of Religion, Mircea Eliade\n\nMAGI: \n\n[Sneak Preview: Later still, eschatology and apocalyptics were a fertile meeting\n ground for Iranian and Judeo-Christian religions, as can be seen in the famous\n _Oracles of Hystaspes_, a work whose Iranian roots are undeniable and which\n most likely dates from the beginning of the Christian era, probably the\n second century CE (Widengren, 1968). The Zoroastrian doctrine of the Savior of\n the Future (Saoshyant) was the basis for the story of the coming of the Magi\n to Bethlehem in the _Gospel of Matthew_ (2:1-12).]\n\n The Old Persian word magu, rendered in Greek by magos, is of uncertain \netymology. It may originally have meant \"member of the tribe,\" as in the\nAvestan compound mogu-tbish (\"hostile to a member of the tribe\"). This meaning\nwould have been further resticted, among the Medes, to \"member of the priestly\ntribe\" and perhaps to \"priest\" (Benveniste, 1938; Boyce, 1982). The term is\nprobably of Median origin, given that Herodotus mentions the \"Magoi\" as one of\nthe six tribes of the Medes.\n For a variety of reasons we can consider the Magi to have been members of a\npriestly tribe of Median origin in western Iran. Among the Persians, they were\nresponsible for liturgical functions, as well as for maintaining their\nknowledge of the holy and the occult. Most likely, the supremacy of the Median\npriesthood in western Iran became established during the time of the Median\nmonarchy that dominated the Persians from the end of the eighth century\nthrough the first half of the sixth century BCE until the revolt of Cyrus the\nGreat (550 BCE). The Persians were indebted to the Medes for their political\nand civil institutions as well. Even if hypotheses have been advanced\nconcerning the existence of Magi of Persian origin in the Achaemenid period\n(Boyce, 1982), we must still maintain that they were of Median origin. This is\ndemonstrated by the eposide of the revolt of Gaumata the Magian, mentioned by\nDarius I (522-486 BCE) in the inscription at Bisutun (Iran), as well as by\nGreek sources. Indeed, Herodotus insists on the idea of the usurpatory power of\nthe Medes against the Persians through the conspiracy of the Magi.\n The fact that the Magi may have been members of a tribe that handed down the\nsacerdotal arts in a hereditary fashion naturally did not exclude the\npossibility that some of them undertook secular prefessions. This seems to be\nattested by the Elamite tablets at Persepolis.\n There is a theses, put forth by Giuseppe Messina, that denies that the Magi\nare members of an ethnic group by suggesting that they are simply members of\nthe priesthood - a priesthood of purely Zoroastrian origin. This thesis is\nuntenable; on the other hand, the hypothesis that their name is related to the\nAvestan term magavan, derived from the Gathic maga (Vedic, magha, \"gift\"), is\nnot without foundation (Mole, 1963). The meaning of maga can probably be found,\nin conformity with the Pahlavi tradition, within the context of the concept of\npurity, or separation of the \"mixture\" of the two opposed principles of spirit\nand matter. The maga, which has been erroneously interpreted as \"chorus,\" from\nthe root mangh, which is said to mean \"sing the magic song\" (Nyberg, 1966) and\nhas been rendered simply by an expression like unio mystica, seems to be an\necstatic condition that opens the mind to spiritual vision. In any case, though\nthere may be a relation between the Old Persian term magu and the Avestan terms\nmagavan and maga, we must maintain a clear distinction between the Magi and the\nAvestan priesthood. The Avesta ignores the Median or Old Persian term, despite\na recent hypothesis proposed by H.W. Bailey; Old Persian inscriptions ignore\nthe Avestan term for \"priest,\" athravan (Vedic, athravan), even if this is \nperhaps present in an Achaeminid setting in the Elamite tablets of Persepolis \n(Gershevitch, 1964).\n The term magu has been present in Zoroastrianism throughout its history; the\nPahlavi terms mogh-mard and mobad represent its continuation. The latter in\nparticular derives from an older form, magupati (\"head of the Magi\"). During\nthe Sasanid period (third to seventh centuries CE), which saw the formation of\na hierarchically organized church, the title mobadan mobad (\"the high priest of\nhigh priests\") came to be used to designate the summit of the ecclesiastical\nhierarchy.\n The Magi practiced consanguineous marriage, or khvaetvadatha (Av.; Pahl.,\nkhwedodah). They also performed a characteristic funeral rite: the exposure of\nthe corpse to animals and vultures to remove the flesh and thereby cleanse it.\nThe corpse was not supposed to decompose, lest it be contaminated by the demons\nof putrefaction. This practice later became typical of the entire Zoroastrian\ncommunity and led to the rise of a complex funeral ritual in Iran and among the\nParsis in India. Stone towers, known as dakhmas, were built especially for this\nrite. During the time of Herodotus the practice of exposure of the corpse was\nin vogue only among the Magi; the Persians generally sprinkled the corpse with\nwax, then buried it. The practice was widespread, however, among the peoples\nof Central Asia.\n The Magi were the technicians of and experts on worship: it was impossible to\noffer sacrifices without the presence of a Magus. During the performance of a\nritual sacrifice, the Magus sang of the theogony (the Magi were possibly the\ncustodians of a tradition of sacred poetry, but we know nothing about the\nrelationship of this tradition to the various parts of the Avesta) and was\ncalled upon to interpret dreams and to divine the future. The Magi were also\nknown for the practice of killing harmful, or \"Ahrimanical,\" animals (khrafstra)\nsuch as snakes and ants. They dressed in the Median style, wearing pants,\ntunics, and coats with sleeves. They wore a characteristic head covering of\nfelt (Gr. tiara) with strips on the sides that could be used to cover the nose\nand mouth during rituals to avoid contaminating consecrated objects with their\nbreath (Boyce, 1982). The color of these caps, in conformity with a tradition\nthat is probably of Indo-European origin, according to Georges Dumezil, was\nthat of the priesthood: white.\n In all likelihood, during the Achaemenid period the Magi were not in\npossession of a well-defined body of doctrine, and it is probable that they\ngradually adopted Zoroastrianism; they were most likely a clergy consisting of\nprofessional priests who were not tied to a rigid orthodoxy but were naturally\ninclined to eclecticism and syncretism. Nonetheless, they must have been\njealous guardians of the patrimony of Zorastrian traditions. By virtue of this\nthey were the educators of the royal princes. The wisest of them was responsible\nfor teaching the prince the \"magic of Zarathushtra, son of Horomazes\" and thus\nthe \"cult of the gods.\" Magi who excelled in other virtues were entrusted with\nthe education of the prince so that he would learn to be just, courageous, and\nmaster of himself.\n During the Achaemenid period the Magi maintained a position of great\ninfluence, although they were certainly subordinate to the emperor. Despite\nseveral dramatic events such as the massacre they suffered after the death of\nGaumata the Magian - in which, according to Herodotus (who calls himself\nSmerdis), the Persians killed a large number of Magi to avenge the usurpation -\nthe Magi nevertheless managed to maintain their influence at court in Media,\nin Persia, and in the various regions of the empire where they were stationed\nas a consequence of the Persian civilian and military administration.\n No priesthood of antiquity was more famous than that of the Magi. They were\nrenowned as followers of Zarathushtra (Zoroaster); as the teachers of some of\nthe greatest Greek thinkers (Pythagoras, Democritus, Plato); as the wise men\nwho arrived, guided by a star, at the manger of the newborn savior in\nBethlehem; and as the propagators of a cult of the sun in India. But they were\nalso known as the Chaldeans, the priesthood of Babylon, known for its occultism;\nthis was perhaps the reason that the term magos had a pejorative sense in Greek,\nlike \"goes,\" \"expert in the magic arts\" (Bidez and Cumont, 1938). Indeed, the\nChaldeans were experts in all types of magical arts, especially astrology, and\nhad a reputation for wisdom as well as knowledge.\n To understand the reasons for such various and sometimes discordant views, it\nis necessary to distinguish between the Magi of Iran proper and the so-called\nwestern Magi, who were later hellenized. In the Achaemenid period both must\nhave been at least in part Zoroastrian, but the western Magi (those of the\nIranian diaspora in Asia Minor, Syria, Mesopotamia, and Armenia), who came in\ncontact with diverse religious traditions, must have, sooner or later and in\nvarying degrees, been influenced by syncretic concepts.\n The Greeks were familiar with both kinds of Magi and, depending on their\nvarying concerns, would emphasize one or the other aspect of them. Classical\nhistorians and geographers, including Herodotus and Strabo, document their\ncustoms, while the philosophers dwell above all on their doctrines: dualism,\nbelief in the hereafter, Magian cosmology and cosmogony, and their theology\nand eschatology. Those sources most interested in the doctrines of the Magi\neven speak of Zarathushtra as a Magus. In doing so they are repeating what the\nMagi themselves said from the Median and Achaemenid periods, when they adopted\nZoroastrianism. At that time they embraced Zarathushtra as one of their own and\nplaced themselves under his venerable name.\n Zoroastrianism had already undergone several profound transformations in the\neastern community by the time of the Acheamenids and was already adapting those\nelements of the archaic religion that refused to die. It has been said quite\noften, in an attempt to characterize the precise role of the Magi in the\nZoroastrian tradition, that the Vendidad (from vi-daevo-data, \"the law-abjuring\ndaivas\"), part of the Avesta, should be attributed to them. (This collection of\ntexts from various periods is primarily concerned with purificatory rules and\npractices.) Nonetheless, the hypothesis is hardly plausible, since the first\nchapter of the Vendidad - a list of sixteen lands created by Ahura Mazda, the\nsupreme god of Zoroastrianism, but contaminated by an attack by Ahriman (Pahl.;\nGathic-Avestan, Angra Mainyu), the other supreme god and the ultimate source of\nall evil and suffering - does not mention western Iran, Persia, or Media (the\nland of Ragha mentioned in the text cannot be Median Raghiana). Furthermore, it\nhas been noted (Gershevitch, 1964) that if the authors had been Magi the\nabsence of any reference to western Iranian institutions, including their own\npriesthood, would be very strange.\n The Magi were above all the means by which the Zoroastrian tradition and the\ncorpus of the Avesta have been transmitted to us, from the second half of the\nfirst millennium BCE on. This has been their principal merit. We can attribute\ndirectly to the Magi the new formulation that Iranian dualism assumed, known to\nus especially from Greek sources and, in part, from the Pahlavi literature of\nthe ninth and tenth centuries CE. According to this formulation, the two poles\nof the dualism are no longer, as in the Gathas, Spenta Mainyu (\"beneficent\nspirit\") and Angra Mainyu (\"hostile spirit\") but Ahura Mazda himself and Angra\nMainyu (Gershevitch, 1964). [See Ahura Mazda and Angra Mainyu.] This trans-\nformation was of immense consequence for the historical development of Zoro-\nastrianism and was most likely determined by the contact of the Magi with the\nMesopotamian religious world. In this new dualism - which was that later known\nto the Greeks (Aristotle, Eudemus of Rhodes, Theopompus, and others) - we can\nsee the affirmation of a new current of thought within Zoroastrianism, to which\nwe give the name Zurvanism. [See Zurvanism.]\n Thanks to their adherence to Zoroastrianism, the Magi played an enormously\nimportant role in the transmission of Zarathushtra's treachings, as well as in\nthe definition of the new forms that these would assume historically. Their\nnatural propensity to eclecticism and syncretism also helped the diffusion of\nZoroastrian ideas in the communities of the Iranian diaspora. The Greeks began\nto study their doctrines and to take an interest in them (Xanthus of Lydia,\nHermodorus, Aristotle, Theopompus, Hermippus, Dinon), even writing treatises\non the Persian religion, of which only the titles and a few fragments have\nsurvived. In the Hellenistic period, the Magi were seen as a secular school of\nwisdom, and writings on magic, astrology, and alchemy were lent the authority\nof such prestigious names as Zarathushtra, Ostanes, and Hystaspes, forming an\nabundant apocryphal literature. (Bidez and Cumont, 1938).\n Later still, eschatology and apocalyptics were a fertile meeting\nground for Iranian and Judeo-Christian religions, as can be seen in the famous\n_Oracles of Hystaspes_, a work whose Iranian roots are undeniable and which\nmost likely dates from the beginning of the Christian era, probably the\nsecond century CE (Widengren, 1968). The Zoroastrian doctrine of the Savior of\nthe Future (Saoshyant) was the basis for the story of the coming of the Magi\nto Bethlehem in the _Gospel of Matthew_ (2:1-12). [See Saoshyant.]\n The Sasanid period saw the Magi once again play a determining role in the\nreligious history of Iran. Concerned to win back the western Magi (de Menasce,\n1956), and eager to consolidate Zoroastrianism as the national religion of\nIran, the priests of Iranian sanctuaries in Media and Persia were able to\nestablish a true state church, strongly hierarchical and endowed with an\northodoxy based on the formation of a canon of scriptures. The leading figures\nin the development of a state religion and of Zoroastrian orthodoxy were Tosar\nand Kerder, the persecutors of Mani in the third century.", "Why is it that we have this notion that God takes some sort of pleasure\nfrom punishing people? The purpose of hell is to destroy the devil and\nhis angels.\n\nTo the earlier poster who tried to support the eternal hell theory with\nthe fact that the fallen angels were not destroyed, remember the Bible\nteaches that God has reserved them until the day of judgement. Their\njudgement is soon to come.\n\nLet me suggest this. Maybe those who believe in the eternal hell theory\nshould provide all the biblical evidence they can find for it. Stay away\nfrom human theories, and only take into account references in the bible.", "\n\n[ The discussion begins: why does the universe exist at all? ]\n\n= \n= Must there be a \"why\" to this? I ask because of what you also\n= assume about God-- namely, that He just exists, with no \"why\"\n= to His existence. So the question is reversed, \"Why can't\n= we assume the universe just exists as you assume God to\n= \"just exist\"? Why must there be a \"why\" to the universe?\"\n\nOne of the Laws of Nature, specifying cause and effect seems to dictate \n(at least to this layman's mind) there must be a causal event. No\nreasonable alternative exists.\n\nAs far as I can tell, the very laws of nature demand a \"why\". That isn't\ntrue of something outside of nature (i.e., *super*natural).\n\n[ ... ]\n\n= \n= It may be that one day man not only can create life but can also\n= create man. Now, I don't see this happening in my lifetime,\n= nor do I assert it is probable. But the possibility is there,\n= given scientists are working hard at \"decoding\" out \"genetic\n= code\" to perhaps help cure disease of a genetic variation.\n= Again, though, must there be \"why\" or a \"divine prupose\" to\n= man's existence?\n\nI believe the \"genetic code\" will be entirely deciphered in our lifetimes,\nbut we will not see man convert entirely inert material into self sustaining, \nreproducing life, *ever*. (I've never been much of a prophet, though. I\ncan't even *picture* New York in my mind 8^] ). I don't believe *any*\ntechnology would be able to produce that necessary *spark* of life, despite\nhaving all of the parts available. Just my opinion.\n\n= \n= > When you say that man is *only* an animal, I have to think that you are\n= > presenting an unprovable statement -- a dogma, if you will. And one\n= > the requires a kind of \"faith\" too. By taking such a hard line in\n= > your atheism, you may have stumbled into a religion of your own.\n= \n= As far as we can tell, man falls into the \"mammal\" catagory. Now,\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nThat preposition sort of precludes an absolute, doesn't it? Without an \nabsolute conclusion, what are we left with? I believe the word \"faith\"\nworks nicely.\n\n= if there were something more to the man (say, a soul), then\n= we have yet to find evidence of such. But as it is now, man\n= is a mammal (babies are born live, mother gives milk, we're\n= warm-blooded, etc.) as other mammals are and is similar in\n= genetic construction to some of them (in particular, primates).\n= For more on this check out talk.origins.\n= \n= > But before you write off all Christianity as phony and shallow, I hope\n= > you'll do a little research into its history and varieties, perhaps by\n= > reading Paul Johnson's \"A History of Christianity\". From your remarks,\n= > it seems that you have been exposed to certain types of Christian\n= > religion and not others. Even an atheist should have enough faith in\n= > Man to know that a movement of 2000 years has to have some depth, and\n= > be animated by some enduring values.\n= \n= Well, then, Buddhism, Confucianism, Taoism, Hinduism, Judaism,\n= Zoerasterism, Shintoism, and Islam should fit this bit of logic\n= quite nicely... :-) All have depth, all have enduring values,\n= thus all must be true...\n\nWell then, with an *equal* scale, and under an *equal* standard, investigate\nthem all, and discover where God is ( or *whether* he is, for the denial of\nGod is ultimately a statement of faith, non-falsifiable as His existence \nmay be). \n\nFor isn't this the purpose of religion - to discover, and in discovery, to\n*know* God?\n\nYou don't mind if a few of us send up a prayer on your behalf during your\nresearch, do you? After all, if we of Christ are deluding ourselves, you\nreally have nothing to worry about, eh?\n\nUntil the King returns,\n\nJason\n\n", "\n\n\nIt's about time. Why do atheists spend so much time paying attention\nto the bible, anyway?\n\nFace it, there are better things to do with your life! I used to\nchuckle and snort over the silliness in that book and the absurdity\nof people believing in it as truth, etc. Why do we spend so little\ntime on the Mayan religion, or the Native Americans? Heck, the Native\nAmericans have signifigantly more interesting myths. Also, what\nabout the Egyptians.\n\nI think we pay so much attention to Christianity because we accept\nit as a _religion_ and not a mythology, which I find more accurate.\n\n\nI try to be tolerant. It gets very hard when someone places a book\nunder my nose and tells me it's special. It's not.", "What you call \"the Trinity and the Catholic church's definition\nof it\" is precisely the result of the first Christians getting\ntogether and trying to find an acceptable answer to your\nquestion \"what is a Christian?\". I can't see what you are\nobjecting to: someone is saying what historians of all beliefs\nwould agree on, and you are calling him a closed-minded bigot?\n\nYou really ought to say what you mean by \"belief in Jesus\nChrist\". It is not a wording that is sufficient to describe a\nChristian. Muslims believe in Jesus Christ although they\nbelieve he was a prophet and not the incarnated Son of God. But\nfollowers of Eastern religions might be quite happy to say that\nJesus was the incarnation of God - along with large numbers of\nother historical and mythical figures.\n\nSo perhaps you ought to rephrase your question and say\nprecisely what it is in the traditional definitions of what it\nis to be a Christian, as handed down by the Universal Church,\nyou object to but regard as unnecessary for being a Christian.", " \n\nNaw, the owners of WordPerfect are Mormons, and by Tony Rose's\nand Robert Weiss' standards, Mormons aren't Christians. :-)", "In \nTim asks:\n\n This is probably too simplistic for some, but John 3:16 saus,\n \"For God so loved the world that He gave His only son, that\n whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life\".\n\n Genesis 15:6, \"And he (Abram) believed the LORD; and He reckoned\n it to him as righteousness\".\n\n I don't find anywhere that God restricts heaven to particular\n ethnic groups or religious denominations or any other category\n that we humans like to drop people into. But He does REQUIRE\n that we believe and trust Him. In Hebrews it says that God spoke\n of old by the prophets (the old testament), but in these last days\n he has spoken to us by His son Jesus Christ. And we learn of\n Him through the pages of the New Testament. The Bible tells us\n what we need to believe. For those who have never heard, I leave\n them in God's capable care, He will make himself known as he\n desires. It behooves each one of us to act upon the knowledge\n we have. If you reject the claims of Jesus, and still go to\n heaven, then the joke's on me. If you reject him and go to hell,\n that's no joke, but it will be final.\n\n\n Gerry", "\n \n\n\nI love it, I love it, I love it!! Wish I could fit all that into a .sig\nfile! (If someone is keeping a list of Bobby quotes, be sure to include\nthis one!)\n\n\n\nThe Flat-Earthers state that \"the Earth is flat\" is a fact. I don't accept\nthis, I think it's an unproven opinion, and I think the Round-Earthers are\nright because they have better evidence than the Flat-Earthers do.\n\nAlthough I can't prove that a god doesn't exist, the arguments used to\nsupport a god's existence are weak and often self-contradictory, and I'm not\ngoing to believe in a god unless someone comes over to me and gives me a\nreason to believe in a god that I absolutely can't ignore.\n\nA while ago, I read an interesting book by a fellow called Von Daenicken,\nin which he proved some of the wildest things, and on the last page, he\nwrote something like \"Can you prove it isn't so?\" I certainly can't, but\nI'm not going to believe him, because he based his \"proof\" on some really\nquestionable stuff, such as old myths (he called it \"circumstancial\nevidence\" :] ).\n\nSo far, atheism hasn't made me kill anyone, and I'm regarded as quite an\nagreeable fellow, really. :)", "Hello.\nHoping to net some netters\nwho are in the helping professions \n(counseling, psychology, psychiatry, social work, therapy etc.)\nto network on some topics and consider\nthe possibility of a sci.counseling.christian type newsgroup\nor list.\n\nThe integration of psychology and counseling and theology \nis a subject of great debate and one of particular interest\nto me.\n\nIf you're out there, please lemme know.\n\nEmail me direct if you will so we can get to know one another\noff the news.", "I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome\nall the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. \nLuke 10:19\n", "I posted this several days ago for Dave Butler. He may have missed it - my\nUsenet board has changed a little. Just in case he missed it, here it is again.\n\n\nDave Butler writes...\n \nFrom: daveb@pogo.wv.tek.com (Dave Butler)\nSubject: Re: NEW BIBLICAL CONTRADICTIONS [Fallaciously] ANSWERED (Judas)\nDate: Thu Apr 1 20:52:11 1993\n \n\"I can basically restrict this post to showing the type of evidence Mr DeCenso\nhas presented, and answering his two questions (and a couple of his spurious\ninsults and false claims).\"\n \nMY REPLY...\nO.K.\n \nDB...\n[By the way Mr DeCenso, you really should have looked in the index of your\nBauer-Arndt-Gingrich Greek lexicon. You would have found that the word in\nActs for \"lot\" is \"kleros,\" not \"CHORION\" as stated by Mr Archer, and nowhere\nin the very large discussion of kleros in done the to \"Theological Dictionary\nof the New Testament\" by Bromley, is the meaning \"burial plot\" discussed. It\ndiscusses the forms of \"kleros\" (eg: kleros, kleroo, etc), and the various\nmeanings of \"kleros\" (eg: \"plot of land,\" and \"inheritance\"), but mentions\nnothing about CHORION or \"burial plot.\" (Why does this not surprise me?) Thus\nit would seem to be a very good thing you dumped Archer as a reference.]\n \nDB later corrected himself...\n_____________________________________________________________________\nFrom: daveb@pogo.wv.tek.com (Dave Butler)\nSubject: Re: NEW BIBLICAL CONTRADICTIONS [Fallaciously] ANSWERED (Judas)\nDate: Fri Apr 2 02:32:11 1993\n \nI owe the group an apology. It is my habit to check my articles before and\nafter their submission for errors. In my last article I stated:\n \n \nI was wrong. I admit that I do not have a handle on Greek grammar, and thus\nconfused \"kleros\", the second to last word in Acts 1:17 as being the plot of\nland discussed. In actuality it is \"chorion\", which is the last word Acts\n1:18. Unfortunately my Greek dictionary does not discuss \"chorion\" so I\ncannot report as to the nuances of the word.\n \nI don't know if someone else would have caught this, though I am sure that\nsomeone would be able to do so, but I have an aversion to disseminating\nmistakes, especially when someone else might use that mistake to prove a point\"\n \n_____________________________________________________________________\n \nMY REPLY...\nVary noble of you Dave. I didn't want to have to go to x number of sources to\nshow you wrong. (Although I am researching CHORION a little).\n \nDB...\n\"Of course the only other reference Mr DeCenso has given is Bullinger. And\nBullinger uses such ridiculous exegisis that when I accused Mr DeCenso of\nactually believing Bullinger, he replied that I misquoted him:\n \nof > my response to see what I REALLY said in my posting of this article.\n \n [Actually Mr DeCenso, you said that there was \"benefit\" to our argument, in\n that it caused to to rediscover Bullinger's exegisis. I did not realize\n that you would find such garbage beneficial, unless you were convinced by\n it].\"\n \nMY REPLY...\nThank you for correcting your restating of my points.\n \nDB...\n\"and Mr DeCenso also replied:\n \n \nThus I apologize for thinking that even Mr DeCenso could find such \"drek\"\nconvincing....he should specify which parts of Bullinger he finds convincing\nand quit hiding behind a disingenuous mask of \"This is what Bullinger\nbelieved, not necessarily what I believe.\" So which is it Mr DeCenso? Do you\nfind the exegisis convincing or not?)\"\n \nMY REPLY...\nOne of my purposes in debating these alleged contradictions with you and\nothers is to diseminate many different views of possible reconciliations\nraised by various Bible scholars and students alike. When I present MY VIEWS,\nI will clearly distinguish them from now on.\n \nDB...\n\"Of course without Archer and Bullinger we find that Mr DeCenso has presented\nno Greek exegisis at all, and Mr DeCenso has made a big thing about my not\nreferring back to the actual Greek. Thus we find this demand on his part for\nquality Greek exegisis to be a hypocritical requirement.\"\n \nMY REPLY...\nGood point. But in your declaring that these passages are contradictory, you\nhave produced only superficial reasonings and observations. Nor have you dug\ndeeper. I'm glad you have begun in this post. I will begin Greek studies on\nthese passages in more depth than I thought necessary, as well.\n \nDB...\n\"It would be appropriate to look at what Mr DeCenso has actually USED as\nevidence. Now we know what he claims for a standard, as he has stated it\noften enough:\n \n \nBut are these actual standards he has used, or simply empty hyperbole. Let's\nsee, he has used (a), and since he is trying to reconcile it to other\npassages, we see that he has also used (b). On the other hand he has\npresented no use of:\n \n(d) historical context or\n(e) historical content or\n(f) other pertinent historical info or\n(g) cultural context or\n(h) cultural content or\n(i) other pertinent cultural info or\n(j) grammatical construction or even\n(k) Hebrew and Greek word studies [remember, Archer and Bullinger don't count]\n \nThus we find his vaunted criteria for exegisis is just empty mouthings.\"\n \nMY REPLY...\nQuestion: Do you find such criteria important? If so, do you plan on starting\nto use them to the best of your ability, or will you continue to present\nshallow observations (I don't mean this in a bad way).\nAt this point in our _debates_, I have not found it necessary to present a\ntotal exegetical analysis of these passages, since we seem to keep beating\naround the bush and not getting into the core of the verses. I do not believe\nit necessary to use many of the above criteria to refute your arguments re:\nJudas in Acts and Matthew, but I will do my best from this point on to use\nseveral of the above criteria, since you desire me to. I hope you will also.\nIt will greatly enhance our study of these passages.\n \nDB...\n\"The only thing he has actually used, beyond the passage itself, is any other\npassage. Thus Mr DeCenso should be honest and note that most of his list is\nred herring and his only real criteria seems to be:\n \n \nMY REPLY...\nThe reason is simple...you are mistating the passages. You claim that the\nPASSAGES contradict one another; I do not see the PASSAGES contradicting one\nanother.\n(1) They may very well be complimentary, as many scholarly sources mention;\n(2) Matthew may not be presenting Judas' death, as you claim. But we'll look\nat your defense of this later.\n \nAlso, the \"reward of iniquity\" in the Acts PASSAGE may not be the 30 pieces of\nsilver in Matthew's PASSAGES. (Although you have a valiant attempt later at\nstating why you believe it is).\n \nAt this beginning stages in our debates, we are laying some Scriptural\ngroundwork, which will be expanded upon through deeper exegesis.\n \nDB...\n\"Of course the only reason I can see to so drastically reinterpret a passage\nas he has done with Judas' death, is to make it agree with another passage so\nthat both could be considered correct.\"\n \nMY REPLY...\nOne of the reasons I have given a different exegetical view of the passages is\nthat you seem to think the majority of scholarship is wrong in concluding these\npassages are complimentary. However, I see no problem in Tony Rose's\nexplanation of Judas' death...\n \n_____________________________________________________________________\n \nHOW WOULD YOU EXPLAIN THE INACCURACY BETWEEN JUDAS HANGING\nHIMSELF IN MATTHEW 27:5 AND \"FALLING HEADLONG HE BURST OPEN\"\n=============================================================\n \nThis question of the manner in which Judas died is one with which we are\nconstantly confronted in our travels. Many people point to the apparent\ndiscrepancy in the two accounts as an obvious, irreconcilable error.\nSome have gone so far as to say that the idea of an inerrant Bible is\ndestroyed by these contradictory accounts. However, this is not the case at\nall.\nMatthew relates that Judas hanged himself, while Peter tells us he fell and\nwas crushed by the impact. The two statements are indeed different, but do\nthey necessarily contradict each other?\nMatthew does not say that Judas did not fall; neither does Peter say that\nJudas did not hang himself. This is not a matter of one person calling\nsomething black and the other person calling it white. Both accounts can be\ntrue and supplementary.\nA possible reconstruction would be this: Judas hanged himself on a tree on the\nedge of a precipice that overlooked the valley of Hinnom. After he hung there\nfor some time, the limb of the tree snapped or the rope gave way and Judas\nfell down the ledge, mangling his body in the process.\nThe fall could have been before *or* after death as either would fit this\nexplanation. This possibility is entirely natural when the terrain of the\nvalley of Hinnom is examined. From the bottom of the valley, you can see\nrocky terraces 25 to 40 feet in height and almost perpendicular.\nThere are still trees around the ledges and a rocky pavement at the bottom.\nTherefore, it is easy to conclude that Judas struck one of the jagged rocks on\nthis way down, tearing his body open. It is important to remember that we are\nnot told how long Judas remained hanging from the tree or how advanced\nwas the decomposition of his body before his fall.\nLouis Gaussen relates a story of a man who was determined to kill himself.\nThis individual placed himself on the sill of a high window and pointed a\npistol at his head. He then pulled the trigger and leaped from the window at\nthe same time.\nOn the other hand, a person could say that this man took his life by shooting\nhimself, while another could rightly contend he committed suicide by jumping\nform the tall building. In this case, both are true, as both are true in the\ncase of Matthew's and Peter's accounts of the death of Judas. It is merely a\nsituation of different perspectives of the same event.\n \n_____________________________________________________________________\n \nYour only reason for rejecting this is, I believe, your attempt to discredit\ninerrancy. You haven't related how this is IMPOSSIBLE or highly unlikely.\nHere's what you said in an earlier post...\n \n_____________________________________________________________________\nDB [quoting Tony Rose]...\n \n\"The added text in this version is so heavy that, assuming you are truly so\nopposed to such tactics, you should find it not credible. But you seem to\nfind Tony Rose's eisegesis satisfactory, while clearly rejecting David\nJoslin's.\"\n \n_____________________________________________________________________\n \nHere, you discredit Tony's explanation based on what you deem too \"heavy\" for\nthe passages. But you haven't addressed why you feel that way. You can say\nit's a vain attempt to reconcile the contradiction, but that doesn't tell me it\ndidn't happen, nor have you shown why you reject that possibility.\n \nQuestions: Is Matthew lying or is Luke lying? Or are they both lying? Or\nare either or both of them misinformed? Why do you think there is such an\nalleged contradiction? I do not think you have ever told us what you believe\nin this respect.\n \nDB...\n\"At present though, Mr DeCenso only asks two questions of me:\n \n \nActually I find question (1) to be a rather stupid request, but I will answer\nit because he now restricts himself to two points. First I would point out\nthat hanging is a very efficient manner for ending a life. In fact it is a\nbit of a fluke when someone survives hanging (except in fantasy cowboy\nmovies), and even then it usually referred to as an attempted hanging.\"\n \nMY REPLY...\nI work at an agency that investigates child abuse and neglect. Today, I got a\ncall re: a child that attempted suicide by hanging himself because his mother\nis on crack. He failed in his attempt and is in a child's psych ward at a\nlocal hospital. Hanging attempts are not always successful.\n \nTo assume that because most hangings are successful, this one was also is\n\"begging the question\", if I may quote you.\n \n[Last night, listening to _The Bible Answer Man_ broadcast, The Christian\nResearch Institute's show, one of the scholars on there used several of these\nterms that you use. I am not all that familiar with them. The man on the BAM\nshow teaches Comparative Religion and Logic. It was interesting]\n \nDB...\n\"This is so prevalent that, so that to say a man hung himself with no other\nqualifiers is synonymous with stating that he killed himself.\"\n \nMY REPLY...\nQualifiers are important at times, as we'll see in an OT passage I'll mention\nbelow.\nDoes hanging ALWAYS have this outcome? Did Matthew, who is the only source we\nhave re: Judas hanging himself, state that Judas died as a result? To say it's\nsynonymous means it has the same meaning as. A boy (age 14) hung himself. But\nhe lived. This is only one of probably thousands of documented cases we can\ndiscover.\n \nDB...\n\"Now I am not alone in this thought; in fact, since Mr DeCenso so respects\nChristian scholarly (including Greek scholars) opinion, I did some research.\"\n \nMY REPLY...\nThank you, Dave.\n \nDB...\n\"Interestingly, not one of the Christian references I read, interpreted the\nhanging as being anything but a fatal suicide. ^^^^^^^^^^^\n \nMY REPLY...\n[^^^ above, mine]\nSo it's OK to use Christian sources to back your points? What about Tony's\nposition. Do you value it or even consider it as a valid possibility?\n \nAlso, is it possible that the sources you read may be wrong, or lying, or\ndeceived in other parts of their books? If so, should we do, as we have done\nwith Archer, toss them to the side and not value anything they say, including\ntheir \"interpretation\" of the hanging of Judas? I am sure _you_ would find\nsome errors and maybe even some deception in those sources.\n \nYou also noted they \"interpreted\" the hanging as meaning he died. Although\nthat is very possibly true, do you find that in the text itself? Remember,\nthat's the first criteria we must examine.\n \nDB...\n\"This included:\n \n \"The Biblical Knowledge Commentary\" by Woodward and Zuck\"\n \nMY REPLY...\nWhich I own. It's a good source of commentary info. But not inerrant.\n \nDB...\n \"The Interpreters on Volume Commentary on the Bible\" by Laydon\n \"The one volume Bible Commentary\" by J R Dunelow\n \"Word meanings of the Testament\" Ralph Earl\n \"The Abingdon Bible Commentary\" published by Abingdon\n \"Harpers Bible Commentary\" by William Neal\n (Actually I could have presented many more as well)\n \nMY REPLY...\nI appreciate your doing this research, Dave. Maybe we are getting somewhere\nin how we both should approach these alleged contradictions - more in depth\nstudy.\n \nDB...\n\"In each case, these references specifically describe that the interpretation\nof Matt 27:5 as successful, suicide and thus I can only conclude that the\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nGreek word \"apagchw\"(ie: hang oneself) is translated as a successful hanging.\"\n \nMY REPLY...\n[^^^ above, mine]\nNo you can't only conclude this, although, as Tony says, this was a highly\nprobable outcome. But Matthew does not state death as being a result.\n \nThe Greek word is APAGCHO. Matthew 27:5 is it's only occurrence in the New\nTestament.\n \nIn the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the OT used at the time of Jesus),\nit's only used in 2 Samuel 17:23 : \"Now when Ahithophel saw that his advice was\nnot followed, he saddled a donkey, and arose and went home to his house, to his\ncity. Then he put his household in order, and hanged himself, and died; and he\nwas buried in his father's tomb.\" ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n \nNotice that not only is it stated that Ahithophel \"hanged himself\" [Gr. Sept.,\nAPAGCHO], but it explicitly adds, \"and died\". Here we have no doubt of the\nresult.\nIn Matthew, we are not explicitly told Judas died.\n \nAlso, there is nothing in the Greek to suggest success or failure. It simply\nmeans \"hang oneself\".\n \nDB...\n\"But Mr DeCenso, you are more than welcome to disagree and show more reputable\n ^^^^^^^^^\nChristian scholars that insist that the hanging was not successful.\"\n \nMY REPLY...\n[^^^above, mine]\n\"Reputable\"? You mean ones that have never erred?\nAs far as insisting that the hanging was unsuccessful, that can't be done,\neven by me. ^^^^^^^^^\n \nAs I said in an earlier post...\n \n_____________________________________________________________________\nAlthough I still agree with Tony's exegesis as being the most probable\nexplanation regarding Judas' death (taking into account several criteria),\nI've recently noticed some new things in Matthew.\n \nMAT 27:5-8 Then he threw down the pieces of silver in the temple and departed,\nand went and hanged himself. But the chief priests took the silver pieces and\nsaid, \"It is not lawful to put them into the treasury, because they are the\nprice of blood.\" And they consulted together and bought with them the potter's\nfield, to bury strangers in. Therefore that field has been called the Field of\nBlood to this day.\n \nFirst of all, notice that the text does not say that Judas died as a result of\nhanging. All it says is that he \"went and hanged himself.\" Luke however, in\nActs, tells us that \"and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all\nhis entrails gushed out.\" This is a pretty clear indication (along with the\nother details given in Acts - Peter's speech, the need to pick a new apostle,\netc.) that at least after Judas' fall, he was dead. So the whole concept that\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nMatthew and Luke both recount Judas' death is highly probable, but not clear\n^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\ncut.\n^^^\n_____________________________________________________________________\n \nI also wrote...\n \n_____________________________________________________________________\nMY REPLY...\n \nHere we have a stickler, Dave, that I have to say I just recently noticed.\nLet's look at the passage in Matthew:\n \nMAT 27:4 saying, \"I have sinned by betraying innocent blood.\" And they said,\n\"What is that to us? You see to it!\"\n \nMAT 27:5 Then he threw down the pieces of silver in the temple and departed,\nand went and hanged himself.\n \nMAT 27:6 But the chief priests took the silver pieces and said, \"It is not\nlawful to put them into the treasury, because they are the price of blood.\"\n \nMAT 27:7 And they consulted together and bought with them the potter's field,\nto bury strangers in.\n \nMAT 27:8 Therefore that field has been called the Field of Blood to this day.\n \nNotice verse 5...\"Then he...went and hanged himself.\"\nMatthew does not say Judas died, does it? Should we assume he died as a\nresult of the hanging? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nWhat does Acts say?\nACT 1:18 (Now this man purchased a field with the wages of iniquity; and\nfalling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his entrails gushed out.\n \nACT 1:20 \"For it is written in the book of Psalms: 'Let his dwelling place be\ndesolate, And let no one live in it'; and, 'Let another take his office.'\n \nHere we may have a graphic explanation of Judas' death....So, my line of\nreasoning to dispel your contradiction myth re:the \"two\" accounts of Judas'\ndeath is this...Matthew doesn't necessarily explain how Judas died; he does\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nsay Judas \"hanged himself\", but he didn't specifically say Judas died in the\nhanging incident. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nHowever, Acts seems to show us his graphic demise. Therefore, there is no\ncontradiction between Matthew and Acts re: Judas' `death'.\n \n.......\n \nMY REPLY...\n...we do know from Matthew that he did hang himself and Acts probably records\nhis death. Although it's possible and plausible that he fell from the hanging\nand hit some rocks, thereby bursting open, I can no longer assume that to be\nthe case. Therefore, no contradiction. Matthew did not say Judas died as a\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nresult of the hanging, did he? Most scholars believe he probably did, but...?\n^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n______________________________________________________________________\n \nI quoted all that to show that I highly regard the scholars' explanations, but\nin looking at the texts initially, we can't assume Judas died. It is, however,\nhighly probable. ^^^^^^\n \nDB...\n\"By the way, while all agree that Judas died from the hanging, the books had\ndifferent ways of dealing with the contradiction we are discussing. One\nsimply ignored it entirely and simply referred back to Matthew's version as\nthe correct version in both Matt and Acts. \"The Biblical Knowledge Commentary\"\nsuggested the hypotheses that Judas hung and then when he rotted, his belly\nexploded (which doesn't explain his headlong fall), or that his branch or rope\nbroke, and he fell to his death and his gut gushed out (which doesn't explain\nhow a hanging man, would fall headlong rather than feet first).\"\n \nMY REPLY...\nThe outcome of any fall is dependent upon many factors...how high the person\nwas suspended before the fall, any obstructions such as tree branches that may\nhave deviated the fall, how steep an incline of rocky surfaces the victim fell\nupon, thus possibly rolling or bouncing of several rocks, etc. In a\nsuperficial examination of the Acts passage and the Matthew passage, we are not\ngiven a lot of info on the geographical specifics, but Tony in the above quoted\npost gave us some...\n \n_____________________________________________________________________\nA possible reconstruction would be this: Judas hanged himself on a tree on the\nedge of a precipice that overlooked the valley of Hinnom. After he hung there\nfor some time, the limb of the tree snapped or the rope gave way and Judas\nfell down the ledge, mangling his body in the process.\nThe fall could have been before *or* after death as either would fit this\nexplanation. This possibility is entirely natural when the terrain of the\nvalley of Hinnom is examined. From the bottom of the valley, you can see\nrocky terraces 25 to 40 feet in height and almost perpendicular.\nThere are still trees around the ledges and a rocky pavement at the bottom.\nTherefore, it is easy to conclude that Judas struck one of the jagged rocks on\nthis way down, tearing his body open.\n_____________________________________________________________________\n \nDB...\nNow truthfully, I do not see what is comforting about Matthew confusing the\nsource of the Potter's field prophesy, but on the other hand the author is\ncorrect: Matthew does make that confusion. Of course a Biblical inerrantist\nwho claim that every word of the Bible is guaranteed true by God, will have to\nthereby add one more contradiction to the death of Judas (ie: where the\nprophesy of the Potter's field came from).\"\n \nMY REPLY...\nPlease, when we are done with this study on his death, remind me to discuss\nthis with you.\n \nDB...\nAs to your second question Mr DeCenso, you ask how we could be sure that the\nmoney with which Judas purchased the land, was indeed for the betrayal, rather\nthan some other source. I would point out that in Acts, where it specifically\nmention \"the reward of iniquity\" [Acts 1:18], it also specifically mentions\nwhat act of iniquity they were talking about (ie: Acts 1:16 \"...concerning\nJudas who was guide to those who arrested Jesus.\"). Now I would point out\nthat when the Bible describes an act of \"iniquity,\" and then immediately\ndiscusses \"*the* reward of iniquity,\" it would be rather inane to suggest that\nit was an action of iniquity other than the one discussed.\"\n \nMY REPLY...\nDave, we are getting somewhere, aren't we!\n \nACT 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples\n(altogether the number of names was about a hundred and twenty), and said,\nACT 1:16 \"Men and brethren, this Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy\nSpirit spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide\nto those who arrested Jesus;\nACT 1:17 \"for he was numbered with us and obtained a part in this ministry.\"\nACT 1:18 (Now this man purchased a field with the wages of iniquity; and\nfalling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his entrails gushed out.\nACT 1:19 And it became known to all those dwelling in Jerusalem; so that field\nis called in their own language, Akel Dama, that is, Field of Blood.)\nACT 1:20 \"For it is written in the book of Psalms: 'Let his dwelling place be\ndesolate, And let no one live in it'; and, 'Let another take his office.'\n \nNotice that in verse 16, the word \"iniquity\" is not used. Rather, it states\nthat Judas \"became a guide to those who arrested Jesus\".\nBut the writer DID NOT stop there...vs. 17, \"for he was numbered with us and\nobtained a part in this ministry.\" What part did Judas play in their ministry?\n ^^^^^^\nJOH 12:6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor, but because he was a\nthief, and had the money box; and he used to take what was put in it.\nJOH 13:29 For some thought, because Judas had the money box, that Jesus had\nsaid to him, \"Buy those things we need for the feast,\" or that he should give\nsomething to the poor.\n \nSo, now we know what part Judas played - he was a treasurer, per se.\nRight after Peter stated that Judas played a part in this ministry (treasurer,\naccording to John), THEN Luke adds the parenthetical explanation of \"wages of\niniquity\" - money that should have been put into the ministry, but was stolen\nby Judas to purchase a field. I believe this is a better exegetical\nexplanation of what the \"wages of iniquity\" are. What do you think, Dave?\n \nDB...\n\"Now since I have given you clear answers (and even references), perhaps you\ncould unequivocally state what type of inerrantist you are (instead of asking\nme what type I think you are, as you did to Mr Joslin).\"\n \nMY REPLY...\nI will gladly admit that I am a Complete Inerrantist, although I do not have\nthat big a problem with the Limited Inerrancy view.\n\nFrank", "I'm concerned about a recent posting about WBT/SIL. I thought they'd\npretty much been denounced as a right-wing organization involved in\nideological manipulation and cultural interference, including Vietnam\nand South America. A commission from Mexican Academia denounced them in\n1979 as \" a covert political and ideological institution used by the\nU.S. govt as an instrument of control, regulation, penetration, espionage and\nrepression.\"\n My concern is that this group may be seen as acceptable and even\npraiseworthy by readers of soc.religion.christian. It's important that\nChristians don't immediately accept every \"Christian\" organization as\nautomatically above reproach.", "\nThat is indeed the present consensus. Contrary to what Dr. Fox has\nbeen saying, however, present consensus is *not* that the longer\npassage in Josephus about Jesus was inserted, but only that it was\nmodified.\n There is no question that it was *at least* modified (based on what\nOrigen says--that Josephus did not recognize Jesus as the Messiah), but\nI don't think the argument that it appears \"out of context\" is a very\ngood one. (I haven't looked at the context for a while; perhaps somebody\ncould give some of the sentences which precede and follow the Jesus\npassage.)", "\nAs a former Catholic and now as a very active Lutheran - it is some of the\n\"innovations\" of the Mass which made me leave the Catholic Church and return\nto the more traditional Catholic Chuch - the Lutherans.\n\nI spent many years as a Lector reading the Passion parts as appropriate in\nthe Catholic Church and I found it very meaningful. Our Lutheran parish just\ninstituted the \"Tenebrae\" service for Good Friday and I was the lector for \na paraphrased Passion which was exceptional. I heard and learned things\nthat I have previously overlooked in the Gospels - yet those \"facts\" were\nalways there. As a matter of interest, the pastor and I were talking about\nthe differences between the RC and Lutheran Church during Holy Week over\nbreakfast Easter Sunday.\n\nMy wife is the member of the liturgy committee in the family (called music\nand worship at our church). Our pastor does have control of this committee\nbut listens very carefully to the committee's suggestions. It needs a strong\nhand to lead and guide, to keep the intent and the message clear and strong\nas it should be through Lent and the rest of the liturgical year. Additional\nreason for my leaving the Catholic faith - lack of any selfless spiritual\nguidance by priests in my parishes. AKA \"wishy-washy\".\n \nAs you may gather from my comments, I feel that it is very important, ir-\nregardless of denominational guidelines, to have a service/Mass which promotes\nthe true reason that we are gathered there. I am quite comfortable in a\ntraditional Mass, with receiving Holy Communion on the tongue, the Sacrament\nof PENANCE (not Reconciliation), Stations of the Cross, so on and so forth.\nThe reason other types of Masses and parishes exist is because these feelings\nare not shared by everyone.\n\nI want more people to attend church and to find the Lord, but I don't want \nthem attending a show. It's not. My church works hard to have a meaningful\nservice during Lent on Wednesdays, but follow traditional Lutheran Book of\nWorship guidelines. Where things are changed or omitted during Lent (such\nas the Hymn of Praise) it is noted so that we are aware of the reasons that it\nis Not there.\n\nQuite frankly, it is very hard for a non-Catholic to go to a Mass and \"fit in\".\nMy dear wife never could (former Methodist). And Holy Week Masses and Vigils\nwould intimidate the daylights out of a non-Catholic. Those Catholics who\nhave beared with me this far understand what I mean.\n\nPlease keep in mind why we are there - to gather together in worship. Not\nto worry about how something is done or not done. If there is something\nwrong that you feel needs addressing, by all means talk to your priest or\npastor. I have only ever met one who wouldn't listen. They are there to \nprovide spiritual guidance and to help. Use them. My differences with\nthe Catholic Church are much more fundamental - but my decision to change\nfaiths was done with prayer, intervention, and sessions with priests and\nministers.\n\nIn Christ,\nKershner\n-- \nKershner Wyatt\nkwyatt@ccscola.ColumbiaSC.ncr.com", "[much deleted] \n[much deleted] \n\n It bugs me when I see this kind of nonsense.\n\n First, there is no reasonable evidence linking Masonry to ancient\nEgypt, or even that it existed prior to the late 14th century (and\nthere's nothing definitive before the 17th).\n\n Second, worship of Osiris is not, nor has it ever been, a part of\nMasonic practice (we are strictly non-denominational).\n\n\n You said it!\n", "\n\nThe belief that the churches of Egypt and Syria were (or are) monophysite is \nfalse, as is the belief that they often held that the Council of Chalcedon \nwas Nestorian.\n\nThese misunderstandings were exacerbated by political factors, and thus led \nto schism - a schism that is on its way to being healed.", "\n\n\tThey must be theists in disguise.\n\n\tIn any event, we don't _need_ to create religious parodies: just \nlook at some actual religions which are absurd.\n\n\n\u001b[34mAnd now . . . \u001b[35mDeep Thoughts\u001b[0m\n\t\u001b[32mby Jack Handey.\u001b[0m", "Not to be too snide about it, but I think this Christianity must\n be a very convenient religion, very maliable and suitable for\n any occassion since it seems one can take it any way one wants\n to go with it and follow whichever bits one pleases and\n reinterpret the bits that don't match with one's desires. It\n is, in fact, so convenient that, were I capable of believing\n in a god, I might consider going for some brand of Christianity.\n The only difficulty left then, of course, is picking which sect\n to join. There are just so many.\n \n Dean Kaflowitz\n\nYes, Christianity is convenient. Following the teachings of Jesus\nChrist and the Ten Commandments is convenient. Trying to love in a\nhateful world is convenient. Turning the other cheek is convenient. So\nconvenient that it is burdensome at times.\n\nDave.\n ", "\nLooking at your discussion I would say that you both operate\nfrom your own reference frame. There's no inside and no outside,\nthere are just two polarized views. As for statements inside the\nBible, things are still not that clear, we don't have any indications\nfor instance why Jobs was placed in the Old Testament, one of the \nfew books that actually talks about Satan. Jobs is very much out\nof line with the rest of the OT books, and there's a chance that\nsomeone added this book later into the group of OT scriptures.\n\n\nThis operates the other way around as well. You have to understand\nthe mind of an atheist, agnostic, or as in my case, a radical\nrelativist. If you don't understand the underlying concepts, it is \npretty hard to continue with a dialogue. I'm not a perfect Christian,\nhowever about 20+ years of Christian teaching should have provided\nme with a pretty good picture of the Christian mind frame.\n\nCheers,\nKent\n", "\n\nBe warned, it is not my job to convert you. That is the job of\nthe Holy Spirit. And I, frankly, make a lousy one. I am only\nhere to testify. Your conversion is between you and God. I am\n\"out of the loop\". If you decide to follow Jesus, of which I\nindeed would be estatic, then all the glory be to God.\n", "Let me tell you my story.\nI grew up catholic. Up until I was 14, it wasn't an issue for me. Then I met\na born-again christian, a very sweet person, not proseletyzing(sp?), not \nimposing. I tried to get into being as christian as I could, as I felt I \n'should'.\n\nBut the more I tried, the more depressed I got. I felt guilty for some of my\nown personal, honest feelings. I tried so hard to reconcile this conflict.\nuntil I was 23.\n\nThen I taught myself to think rationally. I read a lot of books, pro and con \nreligion in general and, specifically, catholicism. I came to a crisis point,\nthen it finally clicked and now I am a staunch atheist. \n\nThis is a very loose explanation, but it's the gist of it.\n\nNow, (at 26) I feel better about myself, better self-esteem, a generally \nstronger person. I have well-defined goals. I have a strong and stable sense \nof morals and values. I am not a neo-nazi or a corrupt politicain, etc. I \nbelieve in human rights and 'live and let live' among other things. I am very \nanti-violent and anti-hatred. (This is to debunk the myth that atheists are\ndepraved.)\nReligion has no place in my system.\nTough.\n\nBertrand Russell said that we cannot *know* god doesn't exist, we can't prove \nit. So, in that sense, we can only truly be agnostic. But, for all practical\npurposes there is no god.", "\n[ Much deletion. He is trying to explain the Immaculate Conception\nand the Assumption of Mary.]\n\n\nIf this is true than why in the Genesis story is God concerned that\nAdam and Eve might also eat from the Tree of Life and live forever and\nbe like gods? Eating of the tree of life would not take away the\neffects of eating of the Tree of Knowledge. Is there any reason to\nassume that they had already eaten of the Tree of Life and so had\nalready attained to eternal life? If so, what basis is there for\nsaying that this was taken away from them? To me the wages of sin are\na spiritual death, not necessarily a physical death. I\ncan attest to the truth of this interpretation from my own experience.\nI suspect that many others could attest to this as well. \n\nPeace\nWill\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ", "I get the feeling that we are debating at cross-purposes--that we\ndo not see the same fundamental assumptions, and this perhaps makes\nmy answers orthogonal to your questions. I will try again.\n\nPerhaps you believe that nothing exists aside from objectively\nobservable and provable things. In that case, I cannot show you\nthat there is such thing as a spirit or a spiritual need--these \nthings do not exist in the realm of the objective, but in the\nrealm of the subjective.\n\n(By a.a., I assume you mean Alcoholics Anonymous, and not alt.atheism ;)\nI would not say that AA \"handles\" spiritual needs. Rather I would say\nthat AA (and other 12-step programs) help people come to terms with their\nneeds--ie that AA is facilitating the recovery, and that as part of the\nrecovery, they recognize their spiritual needs, and begin to rely on a \"higher\npower\" (12-step's term) to fill them instead of whatever substance abuse\nthey had been accustomed to. (Sorry, there is no objective proof here\neither--no way to take 2 identical alcoholics and try to have one recover\nby fulfilling spiritual needs, and one without and externally compare the\ndifference--we are talking about the virtually infinite complexity of\n*people* here.)\n\nSpiritual needs could be defined as things that people need in addition to\nphysical requirements like air, food, sleep, etc. These are things like\nthe need for love and acceptance, and the need for meaning in life. If \none denies the existence of spiritual things, one would presumably call \nthese \"emotional needs\". The reason Christians call them spiritual needs \nis that they have aspects that are not fulfillable except by spiritual \nmeans--ie a person could be loved and accepted by many people, and do \nmany meaningful things, but still have a need for love, which can only be\nsatisfied by the love of God. Now the problem is that there are people who\naccept the existence of these needs, and people who reject them. Since I\nbelieve in absolute truth, some of these people are right, and the others\nare wrong. So here are the 2 possibilities:\n\n1) If Christians are right, then we all have spiritual needs--ie\nwe all need God. Those who do not realize that they need God are \ndeluded--they just haven't recognized it yet.\n\n2) If Christians are wrong, spiritual needs are an artefact of our brain\nchemicals. Well-adjusted and properly-integrated personalities do not\nhave such things. Christians are simply using the concept of God and \nspiritual needs to mask their own inadequacies.\n\nI hate to belabour the point, but the existence of spirits and spiritual\nneeds cannot be objectively demonstrated or proven, just like the existence\nof God cannot. And yes, this means that there is a risk that all my subjective\nevidence is manufactured by my brain chemicals. But on the other hand, I \ncould venture into solipsism and say that there is a risk that everything that\nI appear to objectively know is really manufactured by my brain chemicals.\n\nI suspect this is an unsatisfactory answer to a request for evidence and\ndemonstration of the existence of spirits and spiritual needs, but my assertion\nis that such things are not objectively demonstrable. As I have said before, \nI myself am on the Christian side of agnosticism, having been pushed off the \nfence by subjective evidence. (And no, I was not raised a Christian, so it \nis not a case of simply accepting what I was indoctrinated with.)", "Hello,\n\n I have seen two common threads running through postings by atheists on the \nnewsgroup, and I think that they can be used to explain each other. \nUnfortunately I don't have direct quotes handy...\n\n1) Atheists believe that when they die, they die forever.\n\n2) A god who would condemn those who fail to believe in him to eternal death\n is unfair.\n\n I don't see what the problem is! To Christians, Hell is, by definition, \neternal death--exactly what atheists are expecting when they die. There's no\nreason Hell has to be especially awful--to most people, eternal death is bad\nenough.\n Literal interpreters of the Bible will have a problem with this view, since\nthe Bible talks about the fires of Hell and such. Personally, I don't think\nthat people in Hell will be thrust into flame any more than I expect to Jesus\nwith a double-edged sword issuing from his mouth--I treat both these statements\nas metaphorical.", "\n\n\nActually, there was very little to the book. First of all looking at\nthe titles of her other books, I would personally consider her \nto be engaged in a bizarre form of Christian-like mysticism\nheavily influenced by eastern philosphies (great titles like \n_The_Astrology_of_the_4_Horsemen_).\n\nHowever, other than the Chapter One into, there's nothing original,\nbiased, or even new this book. It is basically a collection of previously\npublished works by those who claim that there exist Buddhist and Hindu\nstories that Christ visited India and China (he was known as Issa) \nduring the period from late teens to age 30.\n\nConclusion: the book actually lets you come to your own view by presenting\na summary of various published works and letters, all of which you\ncould verify independently. It includes refutations to such works as\nwell. Therefore, even if you think she is theologically warped, this \nbook is a nice reference summary for the interested.\t \n", "I was wondering if anyone knew any changes to the temple\nceremony within the last fifty years....\nAlso, why do you think they were made (revelation, \nassimilation to mainstream Christianity, etc.)?\nI know that the God Makers was published quite a while\nago. Could rituals have been changed since then?\n\nI am also very interested in the influence of Freemasonry\non early Mormonism, especially in the Smith family and \nin the Nauvoo settlement. Info on any new studies would \nbe appreciated.\n\nThanks, ", "\n\n\n\nRemember the OT doctrine of 2 witnesses? Perhaps the prophets\ntestified He is coming. The Apostles, testified He came.", "\n\tHmm...makes you wonder whether prayer \"in Jesus' name\" means\n\"saying Jesus' name\" or whether we're simply to do all things with the\nattitude that we belong to Jesus.\n\t\t\t\t\tFrank D.\n", "}It is so simple.... I'm surprised that this subject gets\n}beat to death about once a month. A quick glance in a dictionary\n}would clear up 99% of the confusion and bandwidth in this\n}newsgroup.\n\nReading Stephen Jay Gould's essay \"Evolution as Fact and Theory\" wouldn't\nhurt, either. It appears in _Hen's Teeth and Horse's Toes_.\n\n} Then we could talk about really important things\n}like, why do men have nipples?\n\nSee Gould's \"Male Nipples and Clitoral Ripples\" in _Bully for Brontosaurus_.\n\nGee, this is easy.", "{Dan Johnson asked for evidence that the most effective abuse \nrecovery programs involve meeting people's spiritual needs.\n\nI responded:\n In 12-step programs (like Alcoholics Anonymous), one of the steps\n involves acknowleding a \"higher power\". AA and other 12-step abuse-\n recovery programs are acknowledged as being among the most effective.}\n\nDan Johnson clarified:", "\nDarren> In an earlier article, I explained that what many people find\nDarren> arrogant about Christians is that some Christians profess\nDarren> absolute certainty about their beliefs and doctrines.\n\nand\n\nDarren> In short, the problem is that no matter how good your sources\nDarren> are, if any part of your doctrines or beliefs rest on your own\nDarren> thinking and reasoning, then those doctrines are suspect.\n\nThe point that Darren raises is a very Lutheran viewpoint. \nWhile reason is a gift from God, it is also infected by sin.\nYet we do not reject reason entirely--and neither, I think, \ndoes Darren. We need reason, as Darren himself has pointed\nout, to comprehend God's revelation of himself in the Bible.\nBut reason alone is not sufficient to comprehend and believe\nthe Word. We need, first and foremost, faith. For \"the sinful\nmind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law,\n*nor can it do so*\" (Romans 8:7).\n\nLuther accepted Scripture as the sole means of revelation\n(\"Sola Scriptura\"), but accepted the necessity of the use\nof reason (with faith) in comprehending that revelation.\nYet Luther also said, regarding baptism, \"But mad reason\nrushes forth, and, because Baptism is not dazzling like\nthe works which we do, regards it as worthless.\" (Large\nCatechism, Fourth part, Baptism). To make matters more\ncomplicated, Luther was the sort of theologian that many \npeople would describe as an `absolutist'. I've seen him \ndescribed as a `take no prisoners' theologian.\n\nWe might conclude, given these observations, that Luther\nwas inconsistent or mad. And surely at least some have\ncome to that conclusion. But it might be useful to\nrecall that Jesus was also called mad. And Peter felt\ncompelled to defend himself and the apostles against\na charge of drunkenness on Pentecost. So we as Christians\nought to be careful about rejecting Luther (or others) \nas mad. Rather, we should imitate the Bereans, who\nexamined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul\nsaid was true (Acts 17:11).\n\nThe basis for the confidence with which Luther, Peter, Paul, and many\nothers preached the gospel was not just reason, but faith and the Holy\nSpirit. This is not faith divorced from reason, but a faith that\nguides, informs, and uses reason. The Spirit enables us to know the\ntruth and to proclaim it boldly. God does not want us to preach the\nmessage that \"I think that Jesus might have risen from the dead\" but\nrather \"I know that my redeemer lives!\" (Job 19:25). The Christian\ndoes not side with Pilate in saying \"What is truth?\" but rather\nfollows Christ, who said, \"In fact, for this reason I was born, and\nfor this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone on\nthe side of truth listens to me\" (John 18:37).\n\nWe can know the truth because God has promised us that we can\nknow the truth. Jesus said, \"If you hold to my teachings,\nyou are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth,\nand the truth will set you free\" (John 8:31,32). The Proverbs\nurge us \"Buy the truth, and do not sell it.\" (Pr 23:23).\nThe Psalmist prayed \"Do not snatch to word of truth from my mouth\"\n(Ps 119:43). Evidently he believed that the word of truth\nwas in fact `in his mouth'. \n\nYet we do indeed appear arrogant if our claim to the truth\nis motivated by self-glorification. But if we present the\ntruth as the teachings of Scripture, revealed by the \nSpirit, and not our own invention, and if we stand ready\nto be proved wrong on the basis of Scripture, as Luther\ndid, then we are not arrogant, but humble. We should humbly\ntrust in God's promise of truth, just as we trust in his\npromise of forgiveness.\n\nREXLEX> It is only because of God's own revelation that we can be \nREXLEX> absolute about a thing.\n\nDarren> But how far does that get you? Once God's revelation stops,\nDarren> and your own reasoning begins, possibility for error appears.\n\nI agree that we must make a distinction between the clear teachings\nof Scripture, and the products of our own reason--even when such\nreasoning is based on Scripture. However I think I would draw\nthe line of distinction more `reasonably' :-) and less `academically'\nthan you would.\n\nDarren> For example, let's suppose that our modern Bible translations\nDarren> include a perfect rendering of Jesus words at the Last Supper,\nDarren> and that Jesus said, exactly, \"This is my body.\"\n\nDarren> We'll presume that what he said was totally without error and\nDarren> absolutely true. What can we be certain of? Not much.\n\nDarren> At the moment he stops speaking, and people start\nDarren> interpreting, the possibility of error appears. Did he mean\nDarren> that literally or not? We do not have any record that he\nDarren> elaborated on the words. Was he thinking of Tran- or Con-\nDarren> substantiation? He didn't say. \n\nDarren is almost at the point of making a very Lutheran statement\nabout the Lord's supper. The Lutheran approach is to say\nthat if Jesus said, \"This is my body,\" then that is what we\nshould believe. Other interpretations are rejected simply because\nthey are not taught in Scripture.\n\nRecall that Jesus' words do not stand alone on this subject. We also\nhave Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 11:17-34,--in which he passed on to\nus, what he received from the Lord. In particular he said, \"For\nwhenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the\nLord's death until he comes.\" By these words we should believe that\nthe bread that we eat in the Lord's Supper really is bread (as well as\nthe Lord's body)--as our senses in fact tell us. Does this *prove*\nthat tran-substantiation is false? I suppose someone could say that\nPaul spoke metaphorically of the Lord's body as bread, simply because\nthat is the way the body appears when we eat it. But this thought is\nfound nowhere in Scripture. So we reject it. Thus the primary\nreason for rejecting tran-substantiation is not that we can\nprove it false, but that it is simply not found in Scripture.\n\n[side remark]\nI've been told that the Lutheran doctrine on real presence is\ncon-substantiation. But it has been non-Lutherans who have told\nme this. We tend not to use the word. I almost think that this\nis used more by professors of comparative religion, who need labels\nto compare Catholic, Lutheran and Reformed teachings on the Lord's\nSupper. But almost every church wants to call their own teaching\n\"real presence\" because that was the traditional teaching of \nthe church.\n[end side remark]\n\nDarren> When Christians speak as if they believe their own reasoning\nDarren> can never lead them astray -- when we implicitly claim that we\nDarren> are infallible -- the non- Christians around us rarely believe\nDarren> that implicit claim. Witnessing is hardly going to work when\nDarren> the person you are talking to believes that you are either too\nDarren> foolish to recognise your own limits, or intentionally trying\nDarren> to cover them up.\n\nThis is precisely why Christians should not rely on rationalizations\nin their witnessing. It is far better to take the approach,\n\"I'd like to show you what Scripture says. You decide for \nyourself whether to believe it or not.\"\n\nDarren> `REXLEX' suggested that people read _He is There and He is Not\nDarren> Silent_, by Francis Schaeffer. I didn't think very highly of\nDarren> it, but I think that Mr Schaeffer is grossly overrated by many\nDarren> Evangelical Christians. Somebody else might like it, though,\nDarren> so don't let my opinion stop you from reading it.\n\nDarren> If someone is interested in my opinion, I'd suggest _On\nDarren> Certainty_, by Ludwig Wittgenstein.\n\nAs long as we're trading references, I'd like to suggest Dr. Siegbert\nBecker's paperback, \"The Foolishness of God: The place of reason\nin Lutheran theology,\" published by Northwestern Publishing House.\nThis book was based on Becker's doctoral thesis at the University\nof Chicago.", "-*----\n\n\nNo. It follows from the fact that most Christians' choice of\ninterpretation stems from a mix of beliefs that are influenced by\nthe secular ethics of their culture and that are not fully\ndetermined by scripture. Whether or not there is some \"right\"\ninterpretation matters not; few Christians claim the ability to\nread the mind of their god. Dave Davis should note that it was\nMichael who first stated the importance of secular and cultural\ninfluence in this thread. I think Michael is right in this, but\nregardless, it should be noted that this has *not* been a point\nof contention between Michael and myself. \n\nI have argued -- beyond Michael's claims -- that the Christian\nscriptures are open to so many interpretations -- including a\nwide divergence within the Christian tradition -- that even their\nmost important themes are vague. Again, it does not matter that\nthere is some \"right\" interpretation *unless* there is a way to\ndetermine what that \"right\" interpretation is. It is the lack of\nan objective measure, not the presumed lack of an answer, that\nputs the force behind the line I argue.\n\n\nThere are enough Christian glasses, varying over a sufficiently\nbroad range of color, that I can find a few that support my\nexample. \n\n\n\nIn my opinion, what makes Michael radical is that he fully\nacknowledges that Christian scripture and tradition fail to\ndetermine the doctrines that so many branches within Christianity\nhold dear. He is willing to live and practice his religion\nwithin this indeterminacy, and he is willing to acknowledge that\nmuch of his understanding of things Christian is influenced by\nideas that are not purely Christian. Those Christians I have\ncalled conservative must also interpret, but they do not\nrecognize -- or at least, are unwilling to admit -- the extent and\nimportance of this.\n\n\nI recognize that Michael is part of the tradition. But what does\nit tell one about a tradition covering Origen, Aquinas, Jerry\nFallwell, and Jesse Jackson that it also includes Michael Siemon?\nNot very much!\n\n\n\nI think the conclusion does follow. The purely Christian\nprinciples that Michael has are the ones he shares with others in\nthe Christian tradition or that can be derived from Christian\nscripture. These, necessarily vague, are not enough to drive his\npolitical stances. That one should love one's neighbor is a \npurely Christian principle. That this means showing tolerance \nfor homosexuality is *not*.\n\nAs to these political stances, they are often at odds with what\nis commonly held in most of current Christendom, and so I \nsuspect they could be better pressed outside it. (On the other\nhand, I can well understand the counterpoint, that these \npolitical stances become most influential when presented to \nthose who need them most.)\n\n-*----\n\nHaving barely survived the effort to finish in computer science, I\ndoubt I will attempt a more difficult field any time soon!", "\n\n\tThis posts contains too many fallacies to respond too.\n\n\t1) The abolishment of divinity requires the elimination of \nfreewill. \n\n\tYou have not shown this. You have not even attempted to. However,\nthe existance of an Omniscience being does eliminate freewill in mortals.*\n\n\t* Posted over five months ago. No one has been able to refute it, \nnor give any reasonable reasons against it.\n\n--\n\n\n \"Satan and the Angels do not have freewill. \n They do what god tells them to do. \"", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\tGood point -- it is very true that these \"false\" predictions are\ndangerous--we are warned (more than once) in scripture about false prophtets.\n\n\tHowever, as is often the case with other issues, one cannot let those\nwho falsly report such \"visions\" as a reason against believing in any of them\n(I did not get the impression you were asserting this, by the way...I consider\nmy response not so much a response to your posting but a response to the topic\nas a whole).\n\n\tExample: The Appearances of Mary at Fatima, Portugal in 1917.\n\n\tAmong other things, she predicted the conversion of Russia to Atheism\n\t(something that happened less than a year later w/ the Bolshevik\n\trevolution). She also predicted the second world war (that is, predicte\tpredicted that it would occur during the papacy of a certain pope, who\n\twas not the current one. It happened just like she said.)\n\n\tShe warned there would be \"fire in the sky\" as a warning that the \n\tsecond world war was about to start. About a week before Germany\n\tinvaded, weathermen (and women, I suppose) all over Europe, from\n\tEngland to Spain to Eastern Europe, reported the most spectacular\n\treddish color in the sky ever recorded. To this day some try to \n\texplain it off as the northern lights, and the relation to Mary's\n\tprediction simply coincidence. You all can decide for yourselves.\n\n\tMary predicted that the Atheistic Russia would spread her evils all\n\tover the world and persecute religion. \n\n\tShe said many other things as well, too numerous to list here. Every\n\tsingle one has been realized. \tOne can only use the term \"coincidence\"\n\tso many times in the same explanation before its use becomes \n\tridiculous. \n\n\tSO...yes, there are many false prophets and many false reports. There\n\tare true ones, too. We must always remain open to that. Fatima was\n\tone example. There is another one, currently occuring--the \n\tapparitions that have been taking place at Medjurgorje, Yugoslavia\n\t(or whatever its called now). Mary has been appearing every day for\n\televen years now. It's time the world started listening.", "\nFor your first set of questions (regarding the energy and will of Christ)\nI quote to you the relevant part of the Statement signed by both Eastern\n(Chalcedonian) and Oriental (non-Chalcedonian) Orthodox scholars a few\nyears ago (Both families = both Orthodox churches) :\n\n1. Both families agreed in condemning the Eutychian heresy. Both families\nconfess that the Logos, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, only begotten\nof the Father before the ages and consubstantial with Him, was incarnate and\nwas born from the Virgin Mary Theotokos; fully consubstantial with us, perfect\nman with soul, body and mind ($ \\nu o \\upsilon \\zeta $); He was crucified,\ndied, was buried and rose from the dead on the third day, ascended to the\nHeavenly Father, where He sits on the right hand of the Father as Lord of all\ncreation. At Pentecost, by the coming of the Holy Spirit He manifested the\nChurch as His Body. We look forward to His coming again in the fullness of His\nglory, according to the Scriptures.\n\n2. Both families condemn the Nestorian heresy and the crypto-Nestorianism of\nTheodoret of Cyrus. They agree that it is not sufficient merely to say that\nChrist is consubstantial both with His Father and with us, by nature God and\nby nature man; it is necessary to affirm also that the Logos, Who is by nature\nGod, became by nature man, by His incarnation in the fullness of time.\n\n3. Both families agree that the Hypostasis of the Logos became composite by\nuniting to His divine uncreated nature with its natural will and energy, which\nHe has in common with the Father and the Holy Spirit, created human nature,\nwhich He assumed at the Incarnation and made His own, with its natural will\nand energy.\n\n4. Both families agree that the natures with their proper energies and wills\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nare united hypostatically and naturally without confusion, without change,\n^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nwithout division and without separation, and that they are distinguished in\n^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nthought alone.\n^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\n5. Both families agree that He who wills and acts is always the one Hypostasis\nof the Logos Incarnate.\n\n[...]\n\nI guess that adresses your question adequately.\n\nAs for your second set of questions, I am afraid they are irrelevant to the\ndiscussion (at least from my point of view) of Monophysitism. I do not see\nhow they relate to the topic we are discussing (other than to start an\nendless Orthodox-RC debate which I do not plan to engage into). As a brief\nanswer to your questions, the position of the Coptic Orthodox Church \nregarding the Roman pontiff, his jurisdiction, his infalability, etc.\nis exactly the same as all the other Orthodox churches.\n\nPeace,\n\nNabil", "While this is essentially a discussion of reincarnation in the context of\nChristianity Gerry Palo has made some comparisons to Asian religious\nbeliefs on this topic which have simplified the Asian idea of karma\nto the point of misrepresentation.\n\nThere are significant differences in the idea of karma among Hindus,\nJains, Buddhists (and even among the various Buddhist traditions.)\n\nTo refer to karma as a system of reward for past deeds is totally\nincorrect in the Buddhist and Jain traditions. Karma is considered to\nbe a moral process in which intentions (either good or evil) shape\na person's predilections for future intention and action and\nproduce a person who is more prone to good than evil, or the opposite --\n\"reward\" has nothing to do with it. Both Jainism and Buddhism are atheistic\nso there is no deity to dispense rewards or punishments. Karma is usually\ndescribed in terms of seeds and reaping the fruit thereof. In fact \"As you\nsow, so shall you reap\" is found in the Pali Canon as I recall, the metaphor\nof natural growth is explicit.\n\nHinduism, or some sects in that tradition, are I believe much more\ndeterministic and involve concepts closer to reward and punishment being\ntheistically inclined.\n\nIn point of fact, the Theravadin Buddhist tradition of Southeast Asia\nconsiders karma as only one of five influences in human life, and in\nfact from their point of view they would be unable to explain the mechanics\nof karma without the element of free will.\n\nAlso in Eastern religions there is a difference between reincarnation and\nrebirth, which is essentially absent in Western considerations.\n\nIsn't Origen usually cited as the most prestigious proponent of reincarnation\namong Christian thinkers? What were his views, and how did he relate them\nto the Christian scriptures?", "\nThese laws written for the Israelites, God's chosen people whom God had\nexpressly set apart from the rest of the world. The Israelites were a\ndirect witness to God's existence. To disobey God after KNOWing that God\nis real would be an outright denial of God and therefore immediately punishable.\nRemember, these laws were written for a different time and applied only to \nGod's chosen people. But Jesus has changed all of that. We are living in the\nage of grace. Sin is no longer immediately punishable by death. There is\nrepentance and there is salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. And not just\nfor a few chosen people. Salvation is available to everyone, Jew and Gentile\nalike.\n\nGod be with you,", "\nAnything that does not bring me closer to God is a sin. \n(If you think this is too strict, just consider how ambiguous it is.)\n\nThis implies that staying the same is a sin. A Christian should\nnever be satisfied. It does not imply that\nhaving fun is a sin. It does not imply that sleeping is a sin.\nIt does imply that I sin every day.\n\nA perhaps simpler definition:\nAnything that is counter to the two Great Commandments: \nlove God, love your neighbor, is a sin.\nAnything I do that is not from love is a sin.\n\nThe same action can be a sin sometimes and not a sin sometimes.\n\nI could yell at my kids as discipline, all the time loving them,\nconsidering only to teach them proper behavior, or I could yell at my\nkids out of anger or selfishness.\n\nI could post an excellent article because I am interested in sharing\nmy opinions and getting feedback and learning, or I could post an\narticle because I want everyone to realize how wise I am.", "Hooray ! I always suspected that I was human too :-) It is the desire to be like\nChrist that often causes christians to be very critical of themselves and other\nchristians. We are supposed to grow, mature, endeavour to be Christ-like but we\nare far far far from perfect. Build up the body of Christ, don't tear it down,\nand that includes yourself. Jesus loves me just the way I am today, tomorrow and\nalways (thank God ! :-).", "Although simplistic I have always liked the fact that \"a Christian is one\nwho not only believes in God, but believes God.\" After all the name was\nfirst given externally to identify those who \"preached Christ and Him\ncrucified\" to pay the price of their rebeliion and shortcomings before\nGod. God said this was His son -- I belive Him.\n-- \nScott Dittman email: sdittman@wlu.edu\nUniversity Registrar talk: (703)463-8455 fax: (703)463-8024\nWashington and Lee University snail mail: Lexington Virginia 24450", "The Nicene Creed\n\nWE BELIEVE in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.\nAnd in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten not made, being of one substance with the Father by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary, and was made man, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried, and the third day rose again according to the Scriptur\n\n\n\n\n\nes, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father. And he shall come again with glory to judge both the quick and the dead, whose kingdom shall have no end.", "\n\n\nDo you honestly hold to that tripe Charley? For a start there are enough\ncurrent versions of the Bible to make comparisons to show that what you write\nabove is utter garbage. Witness JW, Mormon, Catholic, Anglican, and Greek\nOrthodox Bibles. But to really convince you I'd have to take you to a good\nold library. In our local library we had a 1804 King James which I compared\nto a brand new, hot of God's tongue Good News Bible. Genesis was almost\nunrecognisable, many of the discrepencies between the four gospels had been\nedited from the Good News Bible. In fact the God of Good News was a much\nmore congenial fellow I must say. \n\nIf you like I'll get the 1804 King James out again and actually give you\nsome quotes. At least the headings haven't changed much.", "\nI'm curious about this statement, is it a known understanding amongst\nChristian believers that people who don't understand the Christian\ndoctrines are enjoying this state? I come from a background with \na heavy Christian teaching (Lutheran church), and consider myself\nknowledgeable with the basic understandings of Christianity. At the \nsame time I'm *not* proud of things I don't understand or know of at\nthis point of time. Ignorance is not bliss!\n\nCheers,\nKent", "\nsome deleted\n\n\nDear Will,\n\nI've never replied on this thing before so I hope it gets thru ok.\nI had a few thoughts!:\n\n\"Faith on its own, if not accompanied by action is dead\" - James 2:17\n\nFaith is both belief and action.\nIf I say that I am a great swimmer but I never go swimming, am I really a\nswimmer? and will people believe that I am?\nLikewise if I say I'm a Christian but I never talk to God, am I really a\nChristian? My faith is demonstrated by my action. The fact that we talk to\nGod proves we have faith. Satan believes in God but does not follow Him!\n\nIn a similar vein, I have recently been challenged by 1John2:3-6\nv3 says \"We know that we have come to know Him if we obey His commands\"\nI find this verse quite encouraging as it could imply that 'if we have\ncome to know Him, then we'll obey His commands' cos He lives within us and\nwe cannot help but obey what He says.\nI tend to feel that as we daily submit ourself to God He will keep changing\nus into the likeness of Jesus and His fruit and works will be automatically\nproduced in our lives.\n\nHope this helps.", "\nJohn 1:1 says (NKJV - the little green gideon someone forced on me one day)\n\"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was \nGod.\" The Word refers to Jesus Christ so from this John declares that God\nand Jesus are one. Therefore, \"The Lord\" refers to both. Also, David in the\nPsalms refers to both God in heaven and the coming messiah as his Lord. Once\nagain this refers to God and Jesus.\n\n swear/curse? Does it say anything about this in the bible?\n\nSome of the most \"truly religious\" people I've known have not been Christians\nand some of the greatest Christians I've known have been truly irreligious.\nHowever, to answer your question:\nThe bible speaks of this in many places, A previous post to James is a good\none. Another is Psalm 15:\n\"Lord, who may abide in your tabernacle? Who may dwell in your holy hill? He\nwho walks uprightly, and works righteousness, and speaks the truth in his heart\nHe who does not backbite with his tongue, nor does evil to his neighbor, nor\ndoes he take up a reproach against his friend; I whose eyes a vile person is\ndespised, but he honors those who fear the Lord; he who swears to his own hurt\nand does not change; He who does not put out money at usury, nor does he take\na bribe aginst the innocent. He who does these things shall never be moved.\"\n\n------------------------------------------------------------\nRob Coffey \"Indeed the safest road to \ncoffey@cptc1.neep.wisc.edu Hell is the gradual one- the\n(if you send mail to cptc2 gentle slope, soft underfoot,\n I'll never read it) without sudden turnings, \n without milestones, without\n signposts.\" -- Screwtape", "\n\n: > This is a good point, but I think \"average\" people do not take up Christianity\n: > so much out of fear or escapism, but, quite simply, as a way to improve their\n: > social life, or to get more involved with American culture, if they are kids of\n: > immigrants for example. Since it is the overwhelming major religion in the\n: > Western World (in some form or other), it is simply the choice people take if\n: > they are bored and want to do something new with their lives, but not somethong\n: > TOO new, or TOO out of the ordinary. Seems a little weak, but as long as it\n: > doesn't hurt anybody...\n\n: The social pressure is indeed a very important factor for the majority\n: of passive Christians in our world today. In the case of early Christianity\n: the promise of a heavenly afterlife, independent of your social status,\n: was also a very promising gift (reason slaves and non-Romans accepted\n: the religion very rapidly).\n\nIf this is a hypothetical proposition, you should say so, if it's\nfact, you should cite your sources. If all this is the amateur\nsociologist sub-branch of a.a however, it would suffice to alert the\nunwary that you are just screwing around ...", "\nZoroaster is far older than Daniel. If anything, one could claim that,\nin a sense, Daniel is a descendant of Zoroaster; as Daniel, though being\nHebrew, has assimilated into Zoroastrianism and has successfully\nintroduced the religion into the Tanakh of Judaism. [However, the majority \nof the book is in Hellenistic Aramaic (not Babylonian Aramaic) and only has\nKethuvim or Writing status.]\n\nRef: Encyclopedia of Religion, Mircea Eliade:\n\nDANIEL, or, in Hebrew, Daniyye'l; hero of the biblical book that bears his name.\nDaniel is presented as a Jew in the Babylonian exile who achieved notoriety in\nthe royal court for his dream interpretations and cryptography and for his\nsalvation from death in a lion's pit. He also appears in the last chapters of\nthe book as the revealer of divine mysteries and of the timetables of Israel's\nrestoration to national-religious autonomy. As a practitioner of oneiromancy in\nthe court, described in Daniel 1-6 (written in the third person), Daniel per-\nforms his interpretations alone, while as a visionary-apocalyptist, in Daniel\n7-12 (written in the first person), he is in need of an angel to help him\ndecode his visions and mysteries of the future. It is likely that the name\nDaniel is pseudonymous, a deliberate allusion to a wise and righteous man known\nfrom Ugaritic legend and earlier biblical tradition. (Ez. 14:4,28:3).\n The authorship of the book is complicated not only by the diverse narrative\nvoices and content but by its language: Daniel 1:1-2:4a and 8-12 are written in\nHebrew, whereas Daniel 2:4b-7:28 is in Aramaic. The language division parallels\nthe subject division (Daniel 1-6 concerns legends and dream interpretations;\n7-12 concerns apocalyptic visions and interpretations of older prophecies). The\noverall chronological scheme as well as internal thematic balances (Daniel 2-7\nis chiliastically related) suggest an attempt at redactional unity. After the\nprefatory tale emphasizing the life in court and the loyalty of Daniel and some\nyouths to their ancestral religion, a chronological ordering is discernable: a\nsequence from King Nebuchadrezzar to Darius is reported (Dn. 7-12). Much of\nthis royal dating and even some of the tales are problematic: for example,\nDaniel 4 speaks of Nebuchadrezzar's transformation into a beast, a story that\nis reported in the Qumran scrolls of Nabonidus; Belshazzar is portrayed as the\nlast king of Babylon, although he was never king; and Darius is called a Mede\nwho conquered Babylon and is placed before Cyrus II of Persia, although no such\nDarius is known (the Medes followed the Persians, and Darius is the name of\nseveral Persian kings). Presumably the episodes of Daniel 2-6, depicting a\nseries of monarchical reversals, episodes of ritual observances, and reports of\nmiraculous deliverances were collected in the Seleucid period (late fourth to\nmid-second century BCE) in order to reinvigorate waning Jewish hopes in divine\nprovidence and encourage steadfast faith.\n The visions of Daniel 7-12, reporting events from the reign of Belshazzar to\nthat of Cyrus II (but actually predicting the overthrow of Seleucid rule in\nPalestine), were collected and published during the reign of Antiochus IV prior\nto the Maccabean Revolt, for it was then (beginning in 168 BCE) that the Jews\nwere put to the test concerning their allegiance to Judaism and their ancestral\ntraditions, and many refused to desecrate the statues of Moses and endured a\nmartyr's death for their resolute trust in divine dominion. All of the visions\nof Daniel dramatize this dominion in different ways: for example, via images of\nthe enthronement of a God of judgment, with a \"son of man\" invested with rule\n(this figure was interpreted by Jews as Michael the archangel and by Christians\nas Christ), in chapter 7; via zodiacal images of cosmic beasts with bizarre\nmanifestations, as in chapter 8; or via complex reinterpretations of ancient\nprophecies, especially those of Jeremiah 25:9-11, as found in Daniel 9-12.\n The imagery of the four beasts in chapter 7 (paralleled by the image of four\nmetals in chapter 2), representing four kingdoms to be overthrown by a fifth\nmonarchy of divine origin, is one of the enduring images of the book; it sur-\nvived as a prototype of Jewish and Christian historical and apocalyptic schemes\nto the end of the Middle Ages. The role and power of this imagery in the\nfifteenth and sixteenth century work of the exegete Isaac Abravanel, the\nscientist Isaac Newton, and the philosopher Jean Bodin and among the Fifth\nMonarchy Men of seventeenth century England, for example, is abiding testimony\nto the use of this ancient topos in organizing the chiliastic imagination of\ndiverse thinkers and groups. The schema is still used to this day by various\ngroups predicting the apocalyptic advent.\n The encouragement in the face of religious persecution that is found and\npropagandized in Daniel 11-12 contains a remarkable reinterpretation of Isaiah\n52:13-53:12, regarding the suffering servant of God not as all Israel but as\nthe select faithful. Neither the opening stories about Daniel and the youths nor\nthe final martyrological allusions advocate violence or revolt; they rather\nadvocate a stance of piety, civil disobedience, and trustful resignation.\nVictory for the faithful is in the hands of the archangel Michael, and the\nmartyrs will be resurrected and granted astral immortality. Persumably the\ncircles behind the book were not the same as the Maccabean fighters and may\nreflect some proto-Pharisaic group of hasidim, or pietists. The themes of\nresistance to oppression, freedom of worship, preservation of monotheistic\nintegrity, the overthrow of historical dominions, and the acknowledgement of\nthe God of heaven recur throughout the book and have served as a token of\ntrust for the faithful in their darkest hour.", "\n: Mr Connor's assertion that \"more complex\" == later in paleontology\n: is simply incorrect. Many lineages are known in which whole\n: structures are lost -- for example, snakes have lost their legs.\n: Cave fish have lost their eyes. Some species have almost completely\n: lost their males. Kiwis are descended from birds with functional\n: wings.\n\nJoel,\n\nThe statements I made were illustrative of the inescapably\nanthrpomorphic quality of any desciption of an evolutionary process.\nThere is no way evolution can be described or explained in terms other\nthan teleological, that is my whole point. Even those who have reason\nto believe they understand evolution (biologists for instance) tend to\npersonify nature and I can't help but wonder if it's because of the\nlimits of the language or the nature of nature.", "So long as we think that good things are what we *have* to do rather than\nwhat we come to *want* to do, we miss the point. The more we love God; the\nmore we come to love what and whom He loves.\n\nWhen I find that what I am doing is not good, it is not a sign to try\neven harder (Romans 7:14-8:2); it is a sign to seek God. When I am aware \nof Jesus' presence, I usually want what He wants. It is His strenth, His love \nthat empowers my weakness.", "\nChristians through ages have had to learn to be patient. I do think\nit's time to face the reality. The events during the last 52 two\ndays showed what the world is really like.\n\nKent", "\nNo. There are two problems here:\n\n(1) Peter died two millenia ago. The original letters he wrote have\nlong since decayed into dust. If he were alive today and I could\nquestion him, then this might lend credibility to your claims (but\nprobably not much, because after all, I've heard people claim with all\nsincerity that they've spoken with Elvis recently). But after his\ndeath, Peter's writings were transcribed by monks for centuries, and I\nfind it hard to believe that one of them somewhere didn't decide to\nchange the wording of something to make it (in his opinion) a little\neasier to understand.\n\n(2) Even if Peter did witness the miracles of Jesus two millenia ago,\nthat doesn't mean that your deity is what the Bible says it is (God\nmight just be Satan, trying to convince everyone that he's a nice\nguy), or even that your deity is still alive and active in the world\ntoday.\n\nNice try, but it just isn't enough to convince me, especially since\nyour wild claims about your deity seem to fly in the face of the way\nI've observed the world to work. Please find something more compelling.\n", "\nThere seem to be many points to the speaking in tongues thing which\nare problematic. It's use as prayer language seems especially troubling\nto me. I understand that when you pray in tongues, the spirit is doing\nthe talking. And when you pray, you pray to God. And the Spirit is\nGod. So, the Spirit is talking to Himself. Which is why I only go\nby the Pentecost use where it's an actual language.\n\nMoreover, the phrase \"though I speak with the tongues of men and angels\"\nused by Paul in I Cor. is misleading out of context. Some would then\nassume that there is some angelic tongue, and if when they speak, it\nis no KNOWN language, then it is an angelic tongue.\n\nHmmm...in the old testament story about the tower of Babel, we see how\nGod PUNISHED by giving us different language. Can we assume then that\nif angels have their own language at all, that they have the SAME one\namongst other angels? After all, THEY were not punished in any manner.\n\nSo why do these supposed angelic tongues all sound different FROM ONE\nANOTHER? It's disturbing to think that some people find ways to \njustify jabbering.\n\nBut I'll buy the idea that someone could talk in a language never learned.\n\nTrouble is, while such stories abound, any and all attempts at\nverification (and we are to test the spirit...) either show that\nthe witness had no real idea of the circumstances, or that outright\nfabrication was involved. The Brother Puka story in a previous post\nseems like a \"friend of a friend\" thing. And linguistically, a two\nsyllable word hardly qualifies as language, inflection or no.", "From: \"Phil G. Fraering\" \n >> Finally: this isn't the Bronze Age, [..]\n >> please try to remember that there are more human activities than\n >> those practiced by the Warrior Caste, the Farming Caste, and the\n >> Priesthood.\n\nF Baube responds;\n Right, the Profiting Caste is blessed by God, and may\n freely blare its presence in the evening twilight ..\n\n Steinn Sez;\n >The Priesthood has never quite forgiven\n >the merchants (aka Profiting Caste [sic])\n >for their rise to power, has it?\n\nIf we are looking for evidence of belessed-by-God-ness, I'd say the ability\nto blare lights all over the evening sky is about the best evidence you\ncould ever hope to get. No wonder the preistly classes are upset :-)\n\n-Tommy Mac\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTom McWilliams 517-355-2178 wk \\\\ As the radius of vision increases,\n18084tm@ibm.cl.msu.edu 336-9591 hm \\\\ the circumference of mystery grows.", "\n If I'm wrong, god is free at any time to correct my mistake. That\n he continues not to do so, while supposedly proclaiming his\n undying love for my eternal soul, speaks volumes.\n\n As for the trap, you are not in a position to tell me that I don't\n believe in god because I do not wish to. Unless you can know my\n motivations better than I do myself, you should believe me when I\n say that I earnestly searched for god for years and never found\n him.\n\n\n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ \n\nBob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM \n\nThey said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,\nand sank Manhattan out at sea.", "Then by that definition, I would be in a cell church only here at IU,\nnot when the whole group gets together at Indianapolis (>950 every week\nin attendance).", "\n[deleted]\n\nI can't speak for Mr. Cavano, but I understood his comment to refer to \nthe idea that unrecognized pantheism is dangerous to Christians. If we \nunthinkingly adopt pantheistic ideas that are opposed to Christianity, \nwe can pervert our faith. When we clearly recognize pantheism when we \nencounter it we have the opportunity to embrace what is consistent with \nChristianity and reject what isn't. \n\nWe need to be alert, always thinking and questioning. We must examine \nthe underlying assumptions of every book we read, tv program we watch \nand socio-political movement we participate in. Ideas are important. \nPhilosophies and doctrines are what give form to the events of our \nlives. They are the basis from which we live our lives of love and \nservice. The command to love God with all one's mind means no fuzzy-\nheaded drifting from idea to idea. \n\n\nOne Christian who acknowledges this is the Pope. It is a frequent theme \nin his writings. Indeed, thoughtful Christians from most traditions \nrecognize that consumerism has no place in the lives of Christians. It \ntoo is a perversion and dangerous to our faith. Thank you, Jack, for \npointing out the parallel. ", "\nI apologize to the moderator, but the first quote was deleted and I\nwould like to respond to both.\n\nAs for the \"goal we can never achieve\", the reward comes from the\ntrying. Paul makes a clear claim that we are to continue straining for\nthe prize over in Philippians 3:10-16. Only by not living out the\ncommands do we stagnate and become lukewarm, to be spit out by Jesus.\nAs it says in 1 John 5:3: \"This is love for God: to obey his comands.\"\nThat obedience is our straining to achieve for God. Of course, this\nrequires work on our part.\n\nAs for the quote in James, Satan doesn't care what we believe. What\nmatters is the results of our belief (works). If one truly has faith in\nwhat one believes, one will either act on that faith or be lying to\noneself about believing in the first place. \n\nStan, as for your first line, you have a very good point. Obedience by\nobligation (grudgery) is not what God desires. Instead, look at how\nmany times the Bible talks about being joyous in all situations and when\ndoing God's work. Being begrudged by the work has no value. Also, we\nshould do the work necessary whenever we can, not just when we feel\nJesus' presence. Feelings can deceive us. However, as Paul states to\nTimothy in 2 Timothy 4:2: \"Preach the Word; be prepared in season and\nout of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and\ncareful instruction.\" Also, remember that Paul tells Timothy in 1\nTimothy 4:16: \"Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in\nthem, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.\"\nSo, in order to do the work necessary, we need to be sure that we are\ncorrect first. Remember Jesus' warning in Matthew 7:3-5 not to be\nhypocritical about what we do. The best way to accomplish this is to be\na disciple completely in both thought and deed. ", "\n\n Could you explain what any of the above pertains to? Is this a position \nstatement on something or typing practice? \n--\n\n\n \"Satan and the Angels do not have freewill. \n They do what god tells them to do. \"", "Hi Xian Netters, God bless you\n\nCONTENTS\n1. intro\n2. love your neighbor\n3. reaction to posts\n a. purpose\n b. eternal life\n\nI've been reading this news group religiously =) for about a month. \nSometimes It really gives me what I need, spiritually. At other times I\nget a little IRATE. \n\nThere are all kinds of people in every group and I take offense at\nintolerance. It's awfully hard to tolerate such people. =) ( OOPS! I've\ngone over my smiley quota already and it's only the second paragraph =(. \nIMHO they should follow the commandment to love thy neighbor and leave\nthe judging up to GOD. \n\nSPECIFICALLY:\none's sexual orientation is part of one's self\nlove the sinner hate the sin DOES NOT APPLY\n\nPay attention fundaligionists. Love your neighbor wether you like it\nor not. I'd be happy to get flamed endlessly and loose scripture\nquotation contests galore to defend this point. I beleive this is\ncorrect. \n\nBTW Love the sinner hate the sin is a slippery slope, with hatred at the\nbottom. \n\n\nINCREDIBLY CHOPPED UP POST\nI won't even try to tell you where the deletions came out\n\n\n\nI find that I am dissatisfied with the little purposes that we can\nmanufacture for ourselves. Little in the cosmic sense. Even the\ngreatest of the great pharos are long gone, the pyramids historical\noddities being worn down by the wind, eventually to be turned into dust.\nMankind itself will one day perish. Without some interconnectedness\nthat transcends the physical, without God, it is all pointless in the\nend. Most people are able to live with that, and for them little\npurposes (success, money, power, effecting change, helping others)\nsuffice. I suppose they never think about the cosmic scale, or are at\nleast able to put it out of their minds.\n\nTo me, it is comforting to know that reality is an illusion. That the\ntrue reality underneath the the physical is spirit. That this world is\na school of sorts, where we learn and grow, and our souls mature. That\ngives a purpose to my little purposes, and takes some of the pressure\noff. It's not so necessary to make this life a success in human terms\nif you're really just here to learn. It's more important to progress,\ngrow, persist, to learn to love yourself and others and to express your\nlove, especially when it's dificult to do so. Honest effort is rewarded\nby God, he knows our limitations.\n\n\n\nInteresting theological question. I have a feeling that most common\nperception of eternal life is WAY off base. If I were to be imprisoned\nin the limited ego/mind I am in now I doubt I would choose imortality. \nIt would get awfully boring. \n\nTWO SERIOUS QUESTIONS/INVITATIONS TO DISCUSSION\n1. What is the nature of eternal life?\n2. How can we as mortals locked into space time conceive of it?", "As quoted from by c115184@cs.UAlberta.CA (Merth Eric William):\n\n\nWhat you fail to see is that in order to make a nightmarish stew of psychosis\nand repression, you have to break a few eggs. You the evil productive \nelements in society, are those eggs....\n\nDamn the spirit, full speed ahead....\n", "\nInteresting question, esp since I remember *wishing* with all\nmy heart that this *were* true so that I wouldn't have to be a \n\"good Christian\" anymore. \"Christianity\" was terribly hard, the\nonly reward was Heaven and (maybe, sometimes, if I was really\ngood) acceptance; I wanted a way out.\n\n\nWhat Jesus has done for me since I found Him (some 6 months ago) \nI do not want to lose. Period. \n\nThat said, I originally interpreted the What-If as \"if Christ\nnever mentioned Sheol and weeping and gnashing of teeth, if\nChrist preached that those who did not follow him died and stayed\ndead and at that point forever ceased to exist....\"\n\n\nI believe that we can only be complete through Christ. \nDo you think that Buddhists can also be complete?\n\n-jen\n\n-- ", "Hi... I'm not a religious guy so dont take this as some kinda flame (thanx\nin advance)\n\nI want to know why there are so many different versions of the bible? There\n\"....contains inaccurate data and inconsistencies.\" \n\n\t\t\t\t\tThanx in advance... Shaz....\n\n[I'm not sure quite what you mean by many different versions.\nThe primary distinction in versions you see today is in the style\nof the translation. It's pretty unusual to see significant\ndifferences in meaning. There are a few differences in the underlying\ntext. That's because before printing, manuscripts were copied by\nhand. Slight differences resulted. There are enough manuscripts\naround that scholars can do a pretty good job of recreating the\noriginal, but there are some uncertainties. Fortunately, they are\ngenerally at the level of minor differences in wording. There are\nsomething like 3 or 4 places where whole sentences are involved,\nbut with recent discoveries of older manuscripts, I don't think there's\nmuch uncertainly about those cases. As far as I know, no Christians\nbelieve that the process of copying manuscripts or the process of\ntranslating is free of error. But I also don't think there's\nenough uncertainty in establishing the text or translating it that\nit has much practical effect.\n\nWhether the Bible contains inaccurate data and inconsistences is a hot\ntopic of debate here. Many Christians deny it. Some accept it\n(though most would say that the inaccuracies involved are on details\nthat don't affect the faith). But this has nothing to do with there\nbeing multiple versions. The supposed inconsistences can be found in\nall the versions. I'm surprised to find a reference to this on the\ntitle page though. What version are you talking about? I've been\nreferring to major scholarly translations. These are what get\nreferenced in postings here and elsewhere. There have certainly been\neditions that are (to be kind) less widely accepted. This includes\neverything from reconstructions that combine parallel accounts into\nsingle narrations, to editions that omit material that the editor\nobjects to for some reason or the other. The copyright on the Bible\nhas long since expired, so there nothing to stop people from making\neditions that do whatever wierd thing they want. However the editions\nthat are widely used are carefully prepared by groups of scholars from\na variety of backgrounds, with lots of crosschecks. I could imagine\none of the lesser-known editions claiming to have fixed up all\ninaccurate data and inconsistencies. But if so, it's not any edition\nthat's widely used. The widely used ones leave the text as is.\n(Weeeeelllllll, almost as is. It's been alleged that a few\ntranslations have fudged a word or two here and there to minimize\ninconsistencies. Because translation is not an exact science, there\nare always going to be differences in opinion over which word is best,\nI'm afraid.)", "\n\nI have seen Jeff Fenholt speak and I didn't find him judgemental. I think\nthat the wording for that add was certainly inappropriate, but I think they\nwere trying to say that headbangers would like the program. But I would\nNOT put headbangers in the same class as alcholics, etc. it is\ncondescending. And I believe that Jeff was wearing black when I saw him.\n\nBy the way, Fenholt played Jesus in Jesus Christ Superstar.\n\nPersonally, I'm a headbanger at times too, but I have a hard time with what\nmost of the secular metal groups promote. Free sex and drugs (my opinion\nthat many promote these) aren't my thing. I HAVE found several good\nChristian metal groups that I like.\n\n\nJon\n\n------------------------------------------------\nJon Ogden - jono@mac-ak-24.rtsg.mot.com\nMotorola Cellular - Advanced Products Division\nVoice: 708-632-2521 Data: 708-632-6086\n------------------------------------------------", "\n\nIf you're talking about this intellectual engagement of revelation, well,\nit's obviously a risk one takes.\n\n\nI'm not an objectivist, so I'm not particularly impressed with problems of\nconceptualization. The problem in this case is at least as bad as that of\ntrying to explain quantum mechanics and relativity in the terms of ordinary\nexperience. One can get some rough understanding, but the language is, from\nthe perspective of ordinary phenomena, inconsistent, and from the\nperspective of what's being described, rather inexact (to be charitable).\n\nAn analogous situation (supposedly) obtains in metaphysics; the problem is\nthat the \"better\" descriptive language is not available.\n\n\nThis word \"reliable\" is essentially meaningless in the context-- unless you\ncan show how reliability can be determined.", "\n\nBrian Kendig also declares:\n\n\n\"Christ\" is Greek for \"Messiah\". \"Messiah\" means \"Annointed One\".\n\"Annoint\" means \"to rub with oil, i.e. to anoint; by impl. to\nconsecrate\" The major prophet Daniel uses the word \"Messiah\"\nin Daniel chapter 9.", "In the King James Version of the Bible there are three differents words \ntranslated into the word \"hell\". These Greek words have totally different \nmeanings. The words are Hades, Tartaros, and Gehenna.\n\n In bibical usage, the Greek word Hades is used only 11 times in the \nNew Testament, and is roughly the equivalent to the Old Testament word Sheol...\nmeaning the grave or pit (compare Acts 2:27 with Psalms 16:10). Hades may be \nlikened to a hole in the ground. (In the Bible it has nothing to do with fire!)\n\n Most modern bibical translators admit that the use in the English word hell\nto translate Hades and Sheol are an unfortunate and misleading practice. \n\n Why? Because when seeing the word \"hell\" many readers impute to it the \ntraditional connotation of an ever-burning inferno, when this was never \nremotely intended in the Greek language or in Old English!\n\n In its true bibical usage Hades does indeed refer to the state or abode of \nthe dead, but not in the sense of spirits walking around in some sort of \n\"shadowy realm.\" Hades is simply the abode we call the grave. All dead go to \nthis hell.\n\n The second \"hell\" of the Bible, Tartaros, is mentioned only once in \nscripture, 2 Pet.2:4; \"For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast \nthem down to hell (TARTAROS), and delivered them into chains of darkness to be \nreserved unto judgment...\"\n\n Following their rebellion to unseat God from His throne (Isa.14:12-14; \nRev.12:4), the archangel Lucifer (now Satan) and a third of the created angels \n(now demons) were ejected from heaven (Luke 10:18). They were cast down to \nTartaros, a place or condition of restraint that God has imposed on the \nmutinous angels as they await ultimate judgment (Jude 6; 1 Cor.6:3).\n\n Tartaros, then, is a \"hell\" that applies only to evil, rebellious angels or\ndemons (It is interesting that the ancient Greeks used this word to describe \nthe place in which Zeus confined the rebellious Titans). Nowhere in the Bible \nis there any mention of men being put into this particular \"hell\".\n\n The the third word that is translated as \"hell\" in the Bible is Gehenna. It\ncomes from the Hebrew GAI HINNOM, meaning \"valley of Hinniom.\" Hinnom is a \ndeep, narrow ravine located to the south and southwest of Jerusalem.\n\n In Old Testament times it was a place of abominable pagan rites, including \ninfant sacrifice (It was there that the apostate kings Ahaz and Manasseh made \ntheir children \"pass through the fire\" to the god Molech. The rites were \nspecifically celebrated in Tophet, the \"place of abhorrence,\" one of the chief \ngroves in the valley).\n\n King Josiah of ancient Judah finally put an end to these abominations. He \ndefiled the valley, rendering it ceremonially unclean (2 Kings 23:10). Later \nthe valley became the cesspool and city dump of Jerusalem; a repository for \nsewage, refuse and animal carcasses. The bodies of dispised criminals were \nalso burned there along with the rubbish. Fires burned continuously, feeding \nby a constant supply of garbage and refuse.\n\n Aceldama, the \"field of blood\", purchased with the money Judas received for\nthe betrayal of Christ (Matt.27:8) was also in part of the valley of Hinnom.\n\n So what does this valley called Gehenna have to do with hell? \n\n In Rev.19:20: the Satan inspired political dictator and a miracle-working \nreligious figure, the False Prophet, working with him will resist the \nre-establishment of the government of God by Jesus Christ at His Second Coming.\nTheir fate is revealed by the apostle John: \"And the beast was taken, and with \nhim the false prophet... These both were cast alive into a lake of fire \nburning with brimstone.\"\n \n Where will this temporary lake of fire (this \"hell\") be?\n\n The prophet Isaiah wrote of this lake of fire prepared for the Beast: \"For \nTophet (in the valley of Hinnom) is ordained of old, yea for the king it is \nprepared, he hath made it deep and large, the pile thereof is fire and wood, \nthe breath of the Lord, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it\" (Isa.30:33).\n\n One thousand years later, Satan himself will be cast into this rekindled \nfiery lake where the Beast and False Prophet were cast! (Rev.20:10).\n\n But what of the wicked who have died over the millennia? Does the Bible \nsay that they are now suffering fiery punishment for their sins in a lake of \nfire?\n\n In the sequence of Rev.20 the incorrigibly wicked are resurrected to be \nthrown into the lake of fire after Satan is cast there! (Rev.20:15). What will \nbecome of these wicked? Will they writhe in flames for eternity? \n \n The wicked will be burned up from the intense heat of the coming Gehenna \nfire on the earth. They wil be consumed, annihilated, destroyed! This \npunishment will be everlasting (permanent and final). The Bible calls it the \n\"second death\" (Rev.20:14; 21:8), from which there is no possibility of a \nfurther resurrection.\n\n The Bible does teach eternal punishment, but not eternal punishing.\n \n The prophet Malachi provides a graphic description. \"For, behold, the day \ncometh that shall burn as an oven, and all the proud, yea, and all that do \nwickedly, shall be stubble, and the day that cometh shall burn them up...\"\n(4:1). To the righteous, God says that the wicked shall be \"ashes under the \nsoles of your feet...\"(Mal.4:3).\n\n Gehenna was a place of destruction and death, not a place of living \ntorture! Jesus was talking to Jews who understood all about this Gehenna or \nvalley of Hinnom. Utter destruction by fire was complete. Nothing was left, \nbut ashes!\n \n Every text in the Bible translated from this Greek word Gehenna means \ncomplete destruction, not living torture (not eternal life in torment)! The \nBible says, in Romans 6:23, \"The wages of sin is death\", not eternal life in \ntorture. The punishment revealed in the Bible is Death... the cessation of \nlife. ", "\n: }Xenophobia, both *de facto* and *de jure* as implemented\n: }in legal systems, is widespread, while the Bible,\n: }although not 100% egalitarian, specifically preaches\n: }kindness to the stranger, and emphasizes in the Book\n: }of Ruth, that a foreigner can join the nation and\n: }give rise to one of the great heroes of the nation.\n: \n: Clearly better than the alternative, but as an American what strikes\n: me as strange about this story is that it should have even been\n: considered an issue.\n\nJim,\n\nThere are a couple of things about your post and others in this thread\nthat are a little confusing. An atheist is one for whom all things can\nbe understood as processes of nature - exclusively. There is no need\nfor any recourse to Divnity to describe or explain anything. There is\nno purpose or direction for any event beyond those required by\nphysics, chemistry, biology, etc.; everything is random, nothing is\ndetermnined.\nThis would also have to include human intelligence of course and all\nits products. There is nothing requiring that life evolve or that it\nacquire intelligence, it's just a happy accident. For an atheist, no\nevent can be preferred to another or be said to have more or less\nvalue than another in any naturalistic sense, and no thought -about-\nan event can have value. \nThe products of our intelligence are acquired from our environment,\nfrom teaching, training, observation and experience and are only\nsignificant to the individual mind wherein they reside. These mental\nprocesses and the images they produce for us are just electrical\nactivity and nothing more; content is of no consequence. The human\nmind is as much a response to natural forces as water running down a\nhill.\nHow then can an atheist judge value? What is the basis for criticizing\nthe values ennumerated in the Bible or the purposes imputed to God? On\nwhat grounds can the the behavior of the reliogious be condemned? It\nseems that, in judging the values that motivate others to action, you\nhave to have some standard against which conduct is measured, but what\nin nature can serve that purpose? What law of nature can you invoke to\nestablish your values.\nSince every event is entirely and exclusively a physical event, what\ndifference could it possibly make what -anyone- does, religious or\notherwise, there can be no -meaning- or gradation of value. The only\nway an atheist can object to -any- behaviour is to admit that the\nobjection is entirely subjective and that he(she) just doesn't like it\n- that's it. Any value judgement must be prefaced by the disclaimer\nthat it is nothing more than a matter of personal opinion and carries\nno weight in any \"absolute\" sense.\nThat you don't like what God told people to do says nothing about God\nor God's commands, it says only that there was an electrical event in your\nnervous system that created an emotional state that your mind coupled\nwith a pre-existing thought-set to form that reaction. That your\nobjections -seem- well founded is due to the way you've been\nconditioned; there is no \"truth\" content. The whole of your\nintellectual landscape is an illusion, a virtual reality.\nI didn't make these rules, it's inherent in naturalistic atheism and\nto be consistent, you have to accept the non-significance of any human\nthought, even your own. All of this being so, you have excluded\nyourself from any discussion of values, right, wrong, goood, evil,\netc. and cannot participate. Your opinion about the Bible can have no\nweight whatsoever.", "\nI have personally know quite of few of the Wycliffe Bible Translators.\nAs an organization their fundamental purpose is to translate the scriptures\ninto the native languages which in terms usual means learning it and \ndeveloping a written language (along with teaching the natives to read).\nIt is not associated with the U.S. govt. at all. Many governments\nwant the help of the translators. To the best of my knowledge the \nMexican government now encourages them to come. Their idea is not\ncultural interference but the presentation of the Good News.\n\nTo understand more about what they do, I suggest you read some of the books\n(autobiographical and biographical) about some of the translators. One\nthat stands out in my mind as an excellent is called \"Peace Child.\"\nThis would give a true picture of what their mission is.\n\nI agree with this statement, but we cannot also accept what others\nsay without looking into the issues. That would be the same as taking \nSuddan's discussion about the CIA, etc. as being true. We must look\nat both sides.", "\n\nI agree. Where in the Gospels does Jesus advocate any of the actions\nyou mention? \n\nI couldn't find \"witch\" or \"sorceress\" in my concordance. Is there\nsomething in the Epistles about witches? (I'm still working my way\nthrough the Gospels.)\n\nJJ", "\nThat would be neat, but nowhere in the Bible does it say\nthat one who has the gift of tounges can do this. If the gift\nof tounges were the ability to be understood by everyone,\nno matter what languages they know, there would be no need for the\ngift of interpretation, and I Corinthians 14 would not have had to\nhave been written. \n\n\n\nThat's a pretty harsh assumption to make about a several million\nChristians world wide. Sure, there are some who want glory\nfor themselves who speak in tounges, just as there are among those\nwho do not have this gift. There were people like this in the Corinthian\nchurch also. that does not mean that there is no true gift or that all\nwho speak in tounges do it for their own glory in the sight of men. \nI would venture to say that a large percentage of those who do speak in tounges \ndo so more often in private prayer than in public.\n\nLink Hudson", "\nReplace \"Stephen\" with \"David Joslin,\" since you directed the same\n In t.r.m. Robert Weiss writes [a promise from Psalm 9:10]\n Gee, since you wouldn't be at all hypocritical, you must be really\n busy arguing against these out-of-context extracted translations!\n\nAs you may recall, you mailed me six mail messages quoting articles by\nRobert Weiss, all sent within a few minutes of each other. You added:\n Naturally, I await your arguments against this out-of-context\n translation. But I shall not await holding my breath...\nand\n Wonder when you get to sleep, disputing all these out-of-context\n extracted translations!\nand other similar comments. \n\nPerhaps you could explain why you ever thought that I might have a\nreason to read all of these articles you pulled off of t.r.m, much\nless write responses to them? \n\n\n\nI am familiar with inductive logic. Go ahead and give me the details\nof the \"logic\" that led you to conclude, incorrectly, that I would\ncondone Robert Weiss taking verses out of context. Your conclusion was\nwrong, of course, since I agree that both you and Robert Weiss were\nguity of taking verses out of context. Nothing hypocritical about\nthat, is there? \n\nSince you reached a false conclusion, you made some mistake in your\n\"logic.\" The only question is where. Did you think that it would\nbe hypocritical for me not to post a reply to Robert Weiss' articles?\nDid you make the common creationist error of confusing a lack of\nevidence for X with evidence for the lack of X? Is your grasp of\ninductive logic not quite as firm as you think? See if you can figure\nout what your mistake was, and learn from it.", "My point is that you set up your views as the only way to believe. Saying \nthat all eveil in this world is caused by atheism is ridiculous and \ncounterproductive to dialogue in this newsgroups. I see in your posts a \nspirit of condemnation of the atheists in this newsgroup bacause they don'\nt believe exactly as you do. If you're here to try to convert the atheists \nhere, you're failing miserably. Who wants to be in position of constantly \ndefending themselves agaist insulting attacks, like you seem to like to do?!\nI'm sorry you're so blind that you didn't get the messgae in the quote, \neveryone else has seemed to.", "\n\nSorry, I put my foot in my mouth, concerning the church's history.\nIt is correct to say that the Council of Hippo 393 listed the \ndeuterocanonical books among those accepted for use in the\nchurch, and that this was ratified by the Council of Carthage,\nand by Pope Innoent I and Gelasius I (414 AD).\n\n\n\"At the end of the fourth century views still differed in regard to\nthe extent of the canon, or the number of the books which should\nbe acknowledged as divine and authoritative.\n\n The Jewish canon, or the Hebrew bible, was universally \nreceived, while the Apocrypha added to the Greek version\nof the Septuagint were only in a general way accounted as books\nsuitable for church reading, and thus as a middle class between\ncanonical and strictly apocryphal (pseudonymous) writings.\nAnd justly; for those books, while they have great historical\nvalue, and fill the gap between the Old Testament and the New,\nall originated after the cessation of prophecy, and the cannot\nbe therefore regarded as inspired, nor are they ever cited\nby Christ or the aposteles.\"\n\n\"In the Western church the canon of both Testaments was closed\nat the end of the fourth century through the authority of\nJerome (who wavered, however, between critical doubts and the\nprinciple of tradition), and more especially of Augustine,\nwho firmly followed the Alexandrian canon of the Septuagint,\nand the preponderant tradition in reference to the Catholic\nEpistles and the Revelation; though he himself, in some\nplaces, inclines to consider the Old Testament Apocrypha\nas *deutero* canonical, bearing a subordinate authority.\"\n\nThis history goes on to say that Augustine attended both the\nCouncil of Hippo and of Carthage.\n\nIt is interesting to note, however, the following footnote to\nthe fourth session of the Council of Trent. The footnote \nlists various Synods which endorsed lists of canonical \nbooks, but then says \"The Tridentine list or decree was the\nfirst *infallible* and effectually promulgated declaration\non the Canon of the Holy Scriptures.\"\n\nWhich leads one to think that the RC canon was not official\nuntil Trent. Thus my previous erroneous statement was\nnot entirely groundless.\n\nIt is also interesting to note that the Council of Trent\nwent on to uphold \"the old Latin Vulgate Edition\" of \nthe Scriptures as authentic. Which, I would suppose, \ntoday's Catholic scholars wish the Council had never said.\nAlso the council made no distinction between deutero-canonical\nand canonical books--in contrast to (Eerdman's statement of) the\nfourth century views.", "\n\nIdeologies also split, giving more to disagree upon, and may also lead\nto intolerance. So do you also oppose all ideologies?\n\nI don't think your argument is an argument against religion at all, but\njust points out the weaknesses of human nature.\n\n\nI would like a reference if you have got one, for this is news to me.\n\n\nOne must approach the Qur'an with intelligence. Any thinking approach\nto the Qur'an cannot but interpret the above verse and others like it\nthat women and men are spiritual equals.\n\nI think that the above verse does clearly imply that women have\nsouls. Does it make any sense for something without a soul to be\nforgiven? Or to have a great reward (understood to be in the\nafter-life)? I think the usual answer would be no -- in which case, the\npart saying \"For them has God prepared forgiveness and a great reward\"\nsays they have souls. \n\n(If it makes sense to say that things without souls can be forgiven, then \nI have no idea _what_ a soul is.)\n\nAs for your saying that the quote above may not be given a high priority\nin all interpretations, any thinking approach to the Qur'an has to give\nall verses of the Qur'an equal priority. That is because, according to\nMuslim belief, the _whole_ Qur'an is the revelation of God -- in fact,\ndenying the truth of any part of the Qur'an is sufficient to be\nconsidered a disbeliever in Islam.\n\n\nLook, any approach to the Qur'an must be done with intelligence and\nthought. It is in this fashion that one can try to understand the\nQuran's message. In a book of finite length, it cannot explicitly\nanswer every question you want to put to it, but through its teachings\nit can guide you. I think, however, that women are the spiritual equals\nof men is clearly and unambiguously implied in the above verse, and that\nsince women can clearly be \"forgiven\" and \"rewarded\" they _must_ have\nsouls (from the above verse).\n\nLet's try to understand what the Qur'an is trying to teach, rather than\ntry to see how many ways it can be misinterpreted by ignoring this\npassage or that passage. The misinterpretations of the Qur'an based on\nignoring this verse or that verse are infinite, but the interpretations \nfully consistent are more limited. Let's try to discuss these\ninterpretations consistent with the text rather than how people can\nignore this bit or that bit, for that is just showing how people can try\nto twist Islam for their own ends -- something I do not deny -- but\nprovides no reflection on the true teachings of Islam whatsoever.", "\nAnd I maintain:\n\nSome people do not want to enter into the light and the knowledge that\nthey alone are their own masters, because they fear it; they are too\nafraid of having to face the world on their own terms. And so, by\ntheir own choice, they will remain in darkness, sort of like bugs\nunder a rock. However, some people, but not many, will not like the\ndarkness. Sometimes it gets too cold and too dark to be comfortable.\nThese people will crawl out from under the rock, and, although blinded\nat first, will get accustomed to the light and enjoy its warmth. And,\nafter a while, now that they can see things for what they really are,\nthey will also see the heights which they can reach, and the places\nthey can go, and they will learn to choose their own paths through the\nworld, and they will learn from their mistakes and revel in their\nsuccesses.\n\nThey will see that there is much much more to the world than just the\nnarrow experiences under the rock. They will discover that life under\na rock was incredibly yucky, and that life on their own terms is great\n-- so great that they will want to tell everyone else about it.\n\nDo you see my point? I think you're the one under the rock, and I'm\ngetting a great tan out here in the sunlight. My life has improved\nimmesurably since I abandoned theism -- come and join me! It will be\na difficult trip at first, until you build up your muscles for the\nlong hike, but it's well worth it!\n\n\nLook, you just practically equated Odin and Zeus? They're as much\ndifferent as your god is from them...\n\nDon't you see? I'm not going to accept ANYTHING that I can't witness\nwith my own eyes or experience with my own senses, especially not\nsomething as mega-powerful as what you're trying to get me to accept.\nSurely if you believe in it this strongly, you must have a good\n*reason* to, don't you?\n\n\nWhen did I say that? I say that I would rather CEASE EXISTING instead\nof being subject to the whims of a deity, but that if the deity\ndecided to toss me into the fiery pits because of who I am, then so be it.\n\n\nNope -- most people are Christian. Most people are fond of feeling\nthat they are imperfect, of believing that the world is an undesirable\nplace, of reciting magical mystical prayers to make the world nice and\nholy again, of doing just as their priests tell them, like good little\nsheep. You enjoy darkness, and you're proud of it.\n\nYou may know the Bible well -- but have you read any of the Koran? Or\nZen writings? Or Hare Krishna literature? If you haven't, then how\ncan you say you have an open mind?\n\n\nNope. You make decisions, enjoy your successes, and accept your\nfailures; then you die. If you are content with the life you've led\nas you reflect back on it in your final moments, then you've led a\ngood life.\n\n\nPlease do.\n\n\nI'm sorry, I don't feel that sacrificing Jesus was something any god\nI'd worship would do, unless the sacrifice was only temporary, in\nwhich case it's not really all that important.\n\nForget the Bible for a minute. Forget quoting verses, forget about\nwho said what about this or that. *Show me.* Picture just you and me\nand a wide open hilltop, and convince me that you're right.\n", "\nIMO, the influence of Stalin, or for that matter, Ayn Rand, invalidates your \nassumption that theism is the factor to be considered. Gullibility, \nblind obedience to authority, lack of scepticism, and so on, are all more \nreliable indicators. And the really dangerous people - the sources of\nfanaticism - are often none of these things. They are cynical manipulators\nof the gullible, who know precisely what they are doing. Now, *some*\nbrands of theism, and more precisely *some* theists, do tend to fanaticism,\nI grant you. To tar all theists with this brush is bigotry, not a reasoned\nargument - and it reads to me like a warm-up for censorship and restriction\nof religious freedom. Ever read Animal Farm?\n\n\nWell, there is a glaring paradox here: an argument that reason is useful\nbased on reason would be circular, and argument not based on reason would\nbe irrational. Which is it?\n\nThe first part of the second statement contains no information, because\nyou don't say what \"the beliefs\" are. If \"the beliefs\" are strong theism \nand/or strong atheism, then your statement is not in general true. The\nsecond part of your sentence is patently false - counterexample: an\naxiomatic datum does not lend itself to rational analysis, but is\nassumed to contain reliable information regardless of what process is\nused to obtain it.\n\n\nI can't agree with this until you are specific - *which* theism? To\nsay that all theism is necessarily antirational requires a proof which\nI suspect you do not have.\n\n\nI don't understand this. Can you formalise your argument?", "\n\n\nAre you your own master? Do you have any habits that you cannot break?\nFor one, you seem unable to master your lack of desire to understand\neven the slightest concept of the Bible. Seems that ignorance has you\nmastered. How about sexual sins? Gotta any of those secret desires\nin your head that you harbor but can get control of? Do you dehumanize\nwomen when they walk past you? Do you degrade them to a sex object in\nyour head? Are you the master of that kind of thinking? Do you insult\npeople unknowingly, then regret it later. Yet do it again the next\ntime opportunity presents itself? Are you truly the master of yourself?\n\nI have admitted that I am not the master of my thought life at all times.\nThat I sometimes say things I do want to say, and then repeat my mistake\nunwantingly. I have admitted to myself that I cannot control every aspect\nof my being. There are times I know I shouldn't say something, but\nthen say it anyway. There are times I simply forget a lesson.\nI, in fact, am not my own master. I need help. Jesus promised me\nthis help. And I took him up on his offer. I have willfully let\nJesus be my master because Jesus knows what is better for me than\nI myself do. And why not? Does not the creator know his creation\nbetter than the creation? Does Toyota know what's better for the\nCorolla than the Corolla?\n\n\nThen I guess ignorance is bliss for you. Because Brian, you enjoy\nnot having a clue about the Bible. \n\n\n\nCan you witness motherly love with your senses? How does caring and\nconcern for you register with your senses? If nothing registers\nto you other than what you can see, taste, smell, hear and touch,\nthen you better become a Vulcan and fast. You better get rid\nof your emotions.\n\nAnd I do have a good reason to believe what I do.\n\n\n\nThe topic was about my God and your lack of knowledge about what my\nGod says. My God says that you will not CEASE EXISTING. You have\nlife forever. You can choose to either live it in hell in eternal\ntorment where there is no communication whatsoever, or can choose to \nlive it in paradise with God. That is what my God says. And that\nwas the issue. Your made-up theism is what it is--made up. It's\nwishful thinking.\n \n\nIs this the religion of Kendigianism? Most people are not Christian. Most\npeople, including Christians, are not fond of feeling that they\nare imperfect. Is \"the world an undesireable place\" a doctrine\nof Kendigianism? It has nothing to do with my God. Does\nKendigism have magical mystical prayers as a part of its worship?\nMine doesn't. Does Kendigianism believe that the world will be holy again? \nMine doesn't. Does Kendigianism also dictate that one must obey what the\npriest tells them like good little sheep? Mine doesn't. Is this\na bunch of lies you tell yourself so that you can justify being \nignorant of the Bible?\n\nBrian, following Christ has nothing to do with the doctrines of Kendigianism.\nYou would find any of your doctrines in the Bible. I don't follow Kendigianism.\nI follow Christ. Also, to try to again show you your ignorance\nof Christ and the Bible in regards to \"priests\", have you not read about\nthe sole Melchizedek priest in Hebrews 7 and 8? Have you not read what the\npurpose is of the Old Testament Levitical priesthood and why there should\nNOT be priests today? Yes, guess what? The Catholics messed up. I do\nnot follow Catholicism or any \"ism.\" I follow Christ.\n\n\nWhy would you want to live a good life?\nTo you, you die and that's it. Don't contradict yourself. You have\nno reason to live a good life. It doesn't do you any good in the\nend. Your life doesn't do anybody else any good either because\neveryone dies anyway. So you have no reason to lead a good life. Leading\na good life is meaningless. Why do you do such a meaningless thing?\n\n\nHas the resurrection sunk in? Jesus is alive. Jesus is NOT dead.\nJesus was sacrified to fufill the Old Testament sacrificial system\nin its every detail. Jesus's death was like a seed. He needed\nto fall to the ground so that many new lives would take root. Did\nyou miss the entire John passage as well? \n\n\n\nForget that I am a person. Forget that I know how to type. Forget\nthat I know how to put a sentence together. Forget that I know\nhow to send e-mail. Forget my existence. Proove to me that I\nexist. .\n", "As our local.religion.christian BBS group seems moribund, I'm posting here.\n\nOn one of the Sundays just before Easter I went to church. The sermon was\nbased on a story in the Book of Joshua. (The one about Joshua sending out\nspies to the land he was planning to take) What I particularly remember,\nbecause of having heard part of a CBC radio documentary on Bosnia, was that\nthe Rahab (the woman who sheltered the spies) said that the people were\n\"melting in fear.\" What with having heard that CBC radio documentary and\nknowing that the Muslims in Bosnia were losing the war, I felt\nuncomfortable. After all, the Serbs are driving non-Christians out. On\nthe other hand, ministers do say that the Bible is opposed to the values\nheld by our secular society. Anyhow members of that church are involved in\nout-of-country missionary work. Also, the pastor has talked of spiritual\nwarfare and of bringing Christ to the nonreligious people of our area.\n\nThe next Sunday, the sermon was about Joshua 6 (where the Israelites\ntake Jericho and then proceed to massacre everybody there --- except\nfor Rahab, who had sheltered the spies). With those reports about\nBosnia in my mind, I felt uncomfortable about the minister saying that\nthe massacre (the one in Joshua) was right. But what really bothered\nme was that, if I was going to try taking Christianity seriously, I\nshouldn't be so troubled about the reports of \"ethnic cleansing\" in\nBosnia. Certainly, my sympathies shouldn't be with the Moslims.\nConsidering that the Bosnian Muslims are descendants of Christians\nwho, under Turkish rule, converted to Islam could the Serbs be doing\nGod's work?", "\n\n\nIt is just as Christ said about his return:\n\n\"Some will say, 'He is in the desert.' or some will say, 'He is in the\nwilderness.' But do not believe them. For as lightning flashes east to\nwest so shall the coming of the Son of Man be.\" \n { My paraphrase - I think the\nverse is\n somewhere in John }\n\nJon\n\n----------------\nsig file broken....\n\nplease try later...", "On 15 Apr 1993 22:34:40 GMT, Eric Sieferman observed:\n\n: Christian: washed in the blood of the lamb.\n: Mithraist: washed in the blood of the bull.\n\n: If anyone in .netland is in the process of devising a new religion,\n: do not use the lamb or the bull, because they have already been\n: reserved. Please choose another animal, preferably one not\n: on the Endangered Species List. \n\nHow about \"washed in the blood of Barney the Dinosaur\"? :)\n", "Hi everyone, \n\t I'm a commited Christian that is battling with a problem. I know\nthat romans talks about how we are saved by our faith not our deeds, yet\nhebrews and james say that faith without deeds is useless, saying' You fools,\ndo you still think that just believing is enough?'\n\nNow if someone is fully believing but there life is totally lead by themselves\nand not by God, according to Romans that person is still saved by there faith.\nBut then there is the bit which says that God preferes someone who is cold to\nhim (i.e. doesn't know him - condemned) so a lukewarm Christian someone who\nknows and believes in God but doesn't make any attempt to live by the bible.\n\nNow I am of the opinion that you a saved through faith alone (not what you do)\nas taught in Romans, but how can I square up in my mind the teachings of James\nin conjunction with the lukewarm Christian being 'spat-out'\n\nCan anyone help me, this really bothers me.\n\nIn Christ,\nWill\n", "[much of the excellent post deleted for space -- TjL]\n\n)->With all the suffering and persecution that it meant to be a believer, \nit\n)->would be quite probable that at least one of those in the supposed \nconspiracy\n)->would come forward and confess that the whole thing was a big hoax. \nYet\n)->not one did. It seems rather reasonable that the disciples did not \nmake\n)->up the resurrection but sincerely believed that Jesus had actually \nrisen\n)->from the dead; especially in light of the sufferings that came upon \nthose\n)->who believed.\n\n\nI was at the \"Jubilee\" conference this year in Pittsburgh PA, and the \nspeaker there spoke of this as well. He talked about many of the same \nthings you mentioned in your post, but here he went into a little more \ndetail. I'll paraphrase as best I can:\n\n\"Suppose you were part of the `Christian consipracy' which was going to \ntell people that Christ had risen. Never mind the stoning, the being \nburned alive, the possible crucifixion ... let's just talk about a \nscourging. The whip that would be used would have broken pottery, metal, \nbone, and anything else that they could find attached to it. You would be \nstood facing a wall, with nothing to protect you.\n\n\"When the whip hit you the first time, it would tear the flesh off you \nwith instant incredibly intense pain. You would think to yourself `All \nthis for a lie?' The second hit would drop you to your knees, you would \nscream out in agony that your raw back was being torn at again. You would \nsay to yourself: `All this for a lie?' And you had 37 more coming.\n\n\"At the third hit you would scream out that it was all a lie, beg for them \nto stop, and tell them that you would swear on your life that it had all \nbeen a lie, if they would only stop....\"\n\nIt is amazing enough that those who believed kept their faith under such \ntorture.... but for a lie? There is no one fool enough to do that.... And \nno one came forward.\n\nExcellent post John, thanks for taking the time.\n\n", "\n\n\n\nJohn,\nThe problem here is that you have taken one peice of my response, without\nbothering to connect it with the other parts. I have repeatedly noted that\none needs to take the problematic historcity of acts and then examine the\nwork of John Dominic Crossan and Burton Mack. Once you have taken the time\nto examine recent developments in biblical scholarship, I think you will \ngrasp more clearly what I am saying.\n\n\n\n\nCertainly this is an issue as I think the situation in Waco shows most \nclearly. If all that is required is that people are willing to die for a\nbelief for it to be true, then surely David Koresh is the son of God. No,\nthe spurrious arguement that the resurrection had to be true for people to be\nwilling to die must be put to rest. The other problem is that it is so \nmonologocentric. Even if the resurrection was a big deal (which it doesn't\nseem to have been for either Q, Thomas, or even John to a certain degree)\nthere are a lot of other things which the Early Christians could have been\ndoing together that would have been worth dying for. It is my belief that\neven the idea of a mixed race community, which brought down regional/national\nboundaries in the name of koinonia could have been enough for people to be\nwilling to die. Radical communties do that (e.g. Jonestown, Waco, Warsaw, etc)\nBut my original point was that roman persecution (which is the only persecution\nwe have documented proof of) was not about whether a carpenter came back from\nthe dead. Such a claim was not unique nor particularly abhorent to the roman\nor greek mind. My point is that avoidance of military and civic duty (i.e.\nemperor worship) would have been much more problematic -- which has nothing\nto do with the resurrection at all. When nero used christians as human \ntorches to light up his dinner party it wasn't because the believe in a \nrisen savior, it was because they were supposedly involved in incest and\ncannablism. The argument that christians were martyred for the resurrection\njust cannot stand up to critical examination.", "I am a student at UW-Eau Claire. I am doing a paper an witches and wanted to\nget your point of view. I will not use you name unless you specifically tell\nme to do so.\n\nPlease answer this question:\n\nAs a Christian, are you offended by witches and Wiccan? Do you feel that tehy\nare pagan in the evil sense of the word?\n\nYou time and cooperation is appreciated. Thanks, J.\n\n-This survey is being conducted in partial fulfillment of the course\nrequirements for Engl 201, taught by Karen Welch at the University of\nWisconsin-Eau Claire. This course is in compliance with the course\ncertification requirements of the University Institutional Review Board for the\nPRotection of Human Subjects.", "\n\nAre you saying that the Indians who became Christians did so because the\nUS Army marched them into church at gunpoint?\n\nThis will be news to the Indians of the Great Lakes and upper Mississippi\nbasin-- of the Southwest-- of Mexico and South America-- who converted even\nbefore there was such a thing as the US. Are you saying that Indians are\nincapable of coming to a decision themselves about their religion without\nbeing forced to at gunpoint? What about the Christian Cherokees who were\ngiven the boot by the US government after the Civil War... because the\nCherokee nation gave mild support to the Confederacy, since they themselves\nowned black slaves. No, reducing it all to a matter of religion is to\nsupport a much too narrow view of history.", "\nShort reply: We can never achieve perfect health, yet we always strive for it. \nWe don't seek to do God's will because we're forced to, we follow His way \nbecause His way is best. The reason it's hard is because we are flawed, not \nbecause He's unreasonable. But we seek to follow His way because we want to \nimprove ourselves and our lives.", "\nI would just go fetch my parents, and show them to you, and thereby\nprove quite definitively that my mother is not named Merlyn, she is\nnot nine feet tall, and my father is quite alive.\n\nThen I would assert quite simply that your deity does not exist, and\nwait for a similar demonstration from you.\n", "\nYes, that's exactly what I felt. My heart just felt that what I was\nbeing taught was *wrong* -- a basically good message, but framed in\nerrors. I could not with a clear conscience accept that women were\nsomehow not equal to men, that homosexuals are \"guilty\" of their\nlifestyle, that pride in one's work is a bad thing, that Jesus died\nfor me -- I don't want ANYBODY to die for me, especially as an\nimpersonal act where the person can't possibly even *know* me well\nenough to really know if I'm worth dying for or not.\n\nI was never able to accept the bit about Jesus's death being a good\nthing. If that means that I'm just not comprehending a basic message\nof Christianity, then so be it. Maybe I'm just not compatible with\nChristianity. I just refuse to follow rules blindly, and since I\ncan't even convince myself that your god even EXISTS in the way you\ndescribe it, I've got to just follow my own conscience in these matters.\n\n\nDon't think that my morals are shoddy or nonexistent just because I\ndon't believe in your god. I will not steal, and I will not murder --\nnot because I fear divine repudiation, but because these just *aren't*\nin my character. You may think there's nothing keeping me from just\nrunning around on a murdering spree, stealing things when I'm able,\ninsulting people for the heck of it, because I'm not answerable to\nanyone; but you'd be wrong. I'm answerable to myself. A life like\nthat would be a cheap life; I happen to want to earn respect in myself.\n\n\nMy initial break with Christianity came after a lot of soul-searching\nand a lot of wondering why I could no longer feel the 'presence' of\nGod with me. I finally decided that I had once \"felt\" this presence\njust as I had \"felt\" my mighty teddy bear beside me when I was a\nlittle tyke, protecting me from the monsters under the bed -- that I\nhad believed in God just as I had believed in the teddy bear, as\nsomething of an emotional crutch to protect me from perceived dangers.\n\nSince then, I've never abandoned the possibility that maybe your\nsupernatural trinity does exist. But there are a few times when, in\nmy darkened room by my bed, I have set aside everything I believe for\na moment and called out to whatever's out there, because I want to\nknow the truth even if it means abandoning everything I know. And I\nhave not yet received an answer.\n\n\nNope. It may well be unknowable. Scientists have suggested that the\nuniverse may be finite and wrap around on itself (the three-dimensional\nuniverse may be mapped onto a four-dimensional supersphere in the same\nway you can map a two-dimensional plane onto a three-dimensional\nsphere; see _Sphereland_, the sequel to _Flatland_, for more thoughts\non this). Our entire universe might just be an electron in a four-\ndimensional universe, which in turn may only be an insignificant speck\nin a universe above that, and so on and so forth until the variables\nbecome too much for us to even speculate on.\n\nThat is, there's no possible way for us to know exactly how we came to\nbe, so there's no reason at all to believe that your God exists nor\nhad anything to do with it.\n\n\nChristians have provided me with nothing except quotes from your holy\nbook, and all sorts of tactics to try to get me to believe: guilt\ntrips, insinuations that I'm without morals, arguments from disbelief\n(\"how can you possibly believe that God *doesn't* exist?\"), and so\nforth. All I'm asking is for you to convince me. I want to be convinced,\nbut it's not going to be easy.\n\n\nHaving had years upon years of contact with your religion from both\nthe inside and the outside, I view it as harmful in many ways. It\npreys on people who want to find meaning in their lives, and once it's\ngot these people, it teaches them to have pity (and sometimes starkly\nintolerant) of others who do not share these views. Maybe you'll say\nthat your religion doesn't teach that -- but I've got to judge\nChristianity from the Christians I know.\n\nI feel that it is entirely possible and good to have faith in one's\nself, and to be a positive influence on society for no better reason\nthan that.\n\nSo I hope that my words in this newsgroup will at least make some\npeople think. I want Christians to realize that there are perfectly\nvalid lifestyles and opinions that have nothing to do with their deity\nwhatsoever, and I want people who are considering Christianity to\nrealize that Christianity does not hold the sole key to a happy,\nfulfilled life.\n\nI have known some very nice Christians who have done some very nice\nthings. I think what sets these people apart from the general masses\nis that they recognize that their religious beliefs may be wrong, and\nthey know the weaknesses of their religion, yet they still decide to\nbelieve, but they keep their beliefs to themselves and do not think\nany less of people who don't agree with them.\n\n\nPrecisely my point. You've still not given me a reason to be a\nChristian instead of a Buddhist or a Moslem...\n\n\n... just as the Moslems aren't religious, and the Buddhists aren't\nreligious. Who *is* religious, then?\n", "Some years ago -- possibly as many as five -- there was a discussion on\nnumerology. (That's where you assign numeric values to letters and then add\nup the letters in words, in an effort to prove something or another. I can\nnever make any sense of how it's supposed to work or what it's supposed to\nprove.)\n\nSomebody posted a long article about numerology in the Bible, saying\nthings like \"this proves the intricate planning of the Scriptures, else\nthese patterns would not appear\".\n\nThen there was a brilliant followup, which was about numerology in all the\nother numerology posts. Stuff like \"The word `numerology' adds up to 28,\nand the word appears 28 times in the posting! Such elegant planning!\nFurther, the word `truth' ALSO adds up to 28; the writer is using these\nnumerological clues to show us that we reach truth via numerology!\"\n(These examples are made up by me just as examples.)\n\nI really liked that reply, because it did such an excellent job of showing\nthat these patterns can be found in just about anything. However, I did\nnot save a copy of it. I do not remember the author. I'm only 90% sure\nthat it was posted to this newsgroup.\n\nBUT, on the off chance that somebody remembers it and saved it, or that the\nauthor is reading here, I wanted to know if anyone could send me a copy. (I\nthink it should be made into an FAQ, if we can find it.)\n", "\n\nWell said, Michael!\n\nThe Catholic traditon has a list of behaviours called the Spiritual \nWorks of Mercy:\n\nadmonish the sinner\ninstruct the ignorant\ncounsel the doubtful\ncomfort the sorrowful\nbear wrongs patiently\nforgive all injury\npray for the living and the dead (yes, I know there is some controversy \n on this and I don't want to argue about it.)\n\nThese are all things that have a direct application to usenet. People \nask questions and express doubts. Some are in need of comfort or \nprayers. Imagine what would happen to flame wars if we bore wrongs \npatiently and forgave injuries. I would add that it is probably more \nappropriate to do any admonishing by private email than publicly.", "The N A T I O N A L D A Y\n o f\n P R A Y E R\n\n 6 M A Y 1 9 9 3\n\n IMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM;\n : :\n : JOIN AMERICA IN PRAYER TO: :\n : :\n : * Acknowledge our dependence upon God; :\n : :\n : * Give thanks for His many blessings; :\n : :\n : * Ask God to guide our leaders and to :\n : bring healing, reconciliation and whole- :\n : ness to our nation and all its people. :\n : :\n HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM<\n\n OUR FOUNDING FATHERS SAID...\n\n George Washington: \"I now make it my earnest prayer that God...\n (A.D. 1783) would be pleased to dispose us all to do\n justice, to love mercy, and to demean\n ourselves with charity and humility, and a pacific temper of mind,\n which were characteristics of the Divine Author of our blessed\n Religion, and without an humble imitation of Whose example in\n these things, we can never hope to be a happy nation.\"\n\n\n John Adams: \"It must be felt that there is no national security\n (A.D. 1853) but in the nation's humble, acknowledged dependence\n upon God and His overruling providence.\"\n\n\n Abraham Lincoln: \"It is the duty of nations, as well as of men,\n (A.D. 1863) to own their dependence upon the overruling\n power of God, to confess their sins and\n transgressions...and to recognize the sublime truth, announced in\n the Holy Scriptures and proven by all history, that those nations\n only are blessed whose God is the Lord...\"\n\n\n NOTE: You can join with people in your area in observing the\n NATIONAL DAY Of PRAYER. To learn who is affiliated with\n the Concerts Of Prayer group in your area, contact:", "\nYes, he was. He also played Jesus in \"Jesus Christ Superstar\" before \nhe became a Christian. He played in Black Sabbath right after he first \ngot saved, but then left it.", "\n: medtronic.COM (Dale M. Skiba) entirely missed my point in my previous\n\n: : firmly on the western coast of the Med. You can bet IUm gonna keep this\n: baby\n\n: >My my my, such double standards. You neglected to give any primary sources\n: >for your book, _Encyclopedia of the Bible_. Are we to expect that source\n: >to be as unbiased as the other sources... MR. Butler *DID* give at least\n: >one source, you have given none.\n\n: REPLY\n\n: It was a JOKE. The Readers digest _Encyclopedia of the Bible_ was the most\n: outrageously bogus *authority* I could dredge from my shelves.\n: I was trying to point out that going to some encyclopedia, rather than\n: original or scholarly sources is a BIG MISTAKE in procedure. I am glad\n: to note that Butler and DeCesno are arguing about substance now,\n: rather than about arguing.\n\nI guess the joke was on me... I am so used to seeing bogus stuff\nposted here that I assumed that yours was necessarily the same.\n", "\n\nIt is all written in _The_Wholly_Babble:_the_Users_Guide_to_Invisible_\n_Pink_Unicorns_.\n\nTo be granted faith in invisible pink unicorns, you must read the Babble,\nand obey what is written in it.\n\nTo obey what is written in the Babble, you must believe that doing so is\nthe way to be granted faith in invisible pink unicorns.\n\nTo believe that obeying what is written in the Babble leads to believing\nin invisible pink unicorns, you must, essentially, believe in invisible\npink unicorns.\n\nThis bit of circular reasoning begs the question:\nWhat makes obeying different from believing?", "\n\nYou should remember that in Adam's transgression, all men and women\nsinned, as Paul wrote. All of humanity cooperativley reblled against\nGod in Adma's sin, thus, all are subject to it, and the sin is\ntransmitted from generation to generation.\n\nAndy Byler]", "\n\nSounds like more of the same. Gods were used to describe almost\neverything in the past. As we come to understand the underpinnings of\nmore and more, the less we credit to a god. Now, the not-so-well\nunderstood elements (at least by the author) includes quarks and tectonic\ndrift. I guess that's better than describing the perceived patterns of\nstars in the sky as heroes being immortalized by the gods.\n\nKinda sounds like old-earth creation--It seems that life did, indeed, evolve\nfrom a common ancestor. What caused that initial common ancestor?\n\nAre we going to hear another debate on causeless events? ;-)\n\n", "\nIt appears that Walla Walla College will fill the same role in alt.atheist\nthat Allegheny College fills in alt.fan.dan-quayle.\n\n\nConverts to xtianity have this tendency to excessively darken their\npre-xtian past, frequently falsely. Anyone who embarks on an\neffort to \"destroy\" xtianity is suffering from deep megalomania, a\ndefect which is not cured by religious conversion.\n\n\nDifferent perspective? DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE?? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!\n\n\n(sigh!) Perhaps Big J was just mistaken about some of his claims.\nPerhaps he was normally insightful, but had a few off days. Perhaps\nmany (most?) of the statements attributed to Jesus were not made by\nhim, but were put into his mouth by later authors. Other possibilities\nabound. Surely, someone seriously examining this question could\ncome up with a decent list of possible alternatives, unless the task\nis not serious examination of the question (much less \"destroying\"\nxtianity) but rather religious salesmanship.\n\n\nHow many Germans died for Nazism? How many Russians died in the name\nof the proletarian dictatorship? How many Americans died to make the\nworld safe for \"democracy\". What a silly question!\n\n\nIs everyone who performs a healing = God?\n\n\nIt's probably hard to \"draw\" an entire nation to you unless you \nare crazy.\n\n\nAnyone who is convinced by this laughable logic deserves\nto be a xtian.\n", "\n\n\tThe Illiad contains more than one word. Ergo: it can not be\nthe Word of God. \n\n\tBut, if you will humbly agree that it is the WORDS of God, I \nwill conceed.\n\n\t:-D\n\n\n---\n\n \"One thing that relates is among Navy men that get tatoos that \n say \"Mom\", because of the love of their mom. It makes for more \n virile men.\"\n\n Bobby Mozumder ( snm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu )\n April 4, 1993", "_MY ADVOCATE_\n\nI sinned. And straightway, posthaste, Satan flew\nBefore the presence of the Most High God\nAnd made a railing accusation there.\nHe said, \"This soul, this thing of clay and sod,\nHas sinned. 'Tis true that he has named Thy name;\nBut I demand his death, for Thou hast said,\n'The soul that sinneth, it shall die.' Shall not\nThy sentence be fulfilled? Is justice dead?\nSend now this wretched sinner to his doom!\nWhat other thing can righteous ruler do?\"\nThus Satan did accuse me day and night;\nAnd every word he spoke, O God, was true!\n\nThen quickly One rose up from God's right hand,\nBefore whose glory angels veiled their eyes;\nHe spoke, \"Each jot and tittle of the law\nMust be fulfilled; the guilty sinner dies!\nBut wait -- suppose his guilt were all transferred\nTo Me and that I paid his penalty!\nBehold My hands, My side, My feet! One day\nI was made sin for him and died that he\nMight be presented, faultless, at Thy throne!\"\nAnd Satan flew away. Full well he knew\nThat he could not prevail against such love,\nfor every word my dear Lord spoke was true!\n\n\n\t\t\t\t\tby Martha Snell Nicholson\n\n+++++++++++++++++++++++\nI heard this poem read last night and wanted to share it with other \nsubscribers of this newsgroup. It's such a wonderful blessing to see how \nsecure our salvation is because the Lord Jesus paid for what He did not owe \nbecause we had a debt which we were not capable to pay.\n\nThanks and praise be to the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who is seated at \nthe right hand of the Majesty on High, making intercession for us.\n++++++++++++++++++++++++", "\n\n\n\n\nIn other words, the right of might.\n\n\n\nIn other words, the right of might.\n\n\n\n\nIn other words, he can do it, he did it, and your in no position to\nargue about it.\n \n\n\n\n \nIn other words, you better do what this God wants you to do, or else!\n\n\n", " \nCool quote.\n\n\nBetter watch it. The theists will jump on you for that... :-)\n\n\nNanci", "\nAnd my number 1:\n\n1. The spectacle of the religious fervour of the CR \"true believers\".\n", "{rest deleted}\n\nCan the Father possibly not hear the words of His children.\nOf course He hears all your prayers.\nWhether you are a sinner or a saint, no questions.\nThe real question you should be asking is: \"Does sin block OUR hearing His\nanswer?\" And the answer to that question is a resounding YES.\nTo paraphrase the gospel \"Many are called but few choose to listen\"\nand so it is with prayer. \n\n\nIn Christ,\n\nJames\n-- \n_____________________________________________________________________________\nJames Hale \t\t\tLincoln School of Health Sciences\nComputing Unit\t\t\tLa Trobe University,Bundoora, AUSTRALIA\n \nJames.Hale@Latrobe.Edu.Au", "Over the years, I have met Christians who are not associated with\nany local church and are not members of any local church. This is\nan issue that may be very personal, but is important. What does\nthe Bible say about this and how can we encourage our friends with\nregard to this issue?", "\nI don't have a stat, but, unfortunately, I did read generally that both smoking\nand belief in the supernatural (occultish garbage) is on the rise here.\n\n\n\nThis is very interesting. I thing the principle is sort of the same though:\nall \"philosophical\" ideas are generally tried out and tested mostly during\ncollege years. Whether the idea is christian or atheist doesn't always matter.\nBut I'd like to say it's because atheists are more intelligent :)\n\n\n-- \n\nregards,\n\n--Adam", "09 Apr 93, Jill Anne Daley writes to All:\n\n JAD> What exactly is a definition of sin and what are some examples. How does\n JAD> a person know when they are committing sin?\n\nTo answer briefly: sin is falling short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23)\n\nSteve", "\n\n [More stuff deleted]\n\nThis seems to be a pretty arogant definition of belief. My beliefs\nare those things which I find to be true based on my experience of the\nworld. This experience includes study of things that I may not have\nexperienced directly. But even then, I can only understand the\nstudies to the extent to which I can relate what I study back to what\nI have experienced.\n\nWhich means that by beliefs about God are directly related to my\nexperience of God. Having experienced God, I try to make sense of\nthat experience. I study religion and read the Bible. I find things\nthat echo what I have already experienced. Out of this I build my\nbeliefs. I also find things that don't match my experience. That\ndoesn't make them false. They just don't match my experience. Maybe\nI will understand that stuff later. I don't know. Maybe all of my\nbeliefs are wrong. I can change my beliefs.\n\nIf someone else has beliefs that are different from mine, so what.\nNeither of us are necessarily wrong. Someone else is making sense out\nof a different set of experiences. Even though we have different\nexplanations and beliefs, if we talk we might even discover that the\nunderlying experiences are similar.\n\nSome people approach religion as a truth that can only exist in one\nform, and usually has a single revelation. The more dogmatic and\ninflexible the belief system, the more arrogant it will appear to an\noutsider. There is another approach possible, however. God is a\nmystery. I am trying to solve the mystery, so I look at the evidence\navailable to me. I try to arrive at the best understanding that I can\nbased on the evidence. New evidence may cause me to change my\nunderstanding. When I encounter someone with a different belief than\nmy own, it isn't a threat, it is an opportunity to perhaps discover\nsomething new about this mystery I can never fully comprehend.\n\nPeace\nWill Taber\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ", "marshall@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Kevin Marshall) <1r2eba$hsq@csugrad.cs.vt.edu>\n\nFaith and dogma are dangerous because they cause people to act on\nfaith alone, which by its nature is without justification. That\nis what I mean by the word ``faith'': belief without justification, or\nbelief with arbitrary justification, or with emotional (irrational)\njustification.\n\nFor example, when someone says that God exists, that they don't know\nwhy they believe God exists, they can just feel it, that's faith.\n\nDogma is bad because it precludes positive change in belief based\non new information, or increased mental faculty.\n\nFaith and dogma are irrational. The faith and dogma part of any religion\nare responsible for the irrationality of the individuals. I claim that\nfaith and dogma are the quintessential part of any religion. If that\nmakes (the much overused in this context) Buddism a philosophy rather\nthan a religion, I can live with that. Science is not a religion,\nbecause there is no faith nor dogma.\n\nHave you noticed that philosophers tend to be atheists? If a philosopher\nis not an atheist, s/he tends to be called a theologian.\n\nA Christian tends to consider Christianity sacred. Christianity is\na special set of beliefs, sanctioned by God himself, and therefore,\nto conceive of changing those beliefs is to question the existence\nof That Being Who Makes No Mistakes. Faith comes into play. Dogma\ncomes into play. ``The lord works in mysterious ways'' is an example\nof faith being used to reconcile evidence that the beliefs are flawed.\nSure, interpretations of what ``God said'' are changed to satisfy the\nneeds of society, but when God says something, that's it. It was said,\nand that's that. Since God said it, it is unflawed, even if the\ninterpretations are flawed.\n\nScience, (as would be practiced by atheists) in contrast, has a\nBUILT IN defence against faith and dogma.\nA scientist holds sacred the idea that beliefs should change to\nsuit whatever is the best information available at the time, AND,\n*AND*, ****AND***, a scientist understands that any current beliefs\nare deficient in some way. The goal is to keep improving\nthe beliefs. The goal is to keep changing the beliefs to reflect\nthe best information currently available. That's the only rational\nthing to do. That's good philosophy.\n\nCan you see the difference? Science views beliefs as being flawed,\nand new information can be obtained to improve them. (How many\nscientists would claim to have complete and perfect understanding\nof everything? None---it would put them out of a job!) Religion\nviews its beliefs as being perfect, and the interpretations of\nthose beliefs must be changed as new information is acquired which\nconflicts with them.\n\nIt's easier for someone to kill a person when s/he doesn't require\na good rational justification of the killing. I don't consider\n``he's Jewish'', or ``he was born of Jewish parents'', or\n``this document says he's Jewish'' to be good rational justification.\n\n\nClinton and the FBI would love for you to convince them of this.\nIt would save the US taxpayer a lot of money if you could.", "\n [There may be some misunderstanding over terms here...]\n\nI agree. Quite likely, actually.\n\n [...I believe \"Jesus\n only\" originally was in the context of baptism. These are folks who\n believe that baptism should be done with a formula mentioning only\n Jesus, rather than Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This may have\n doctrinal implications, but as far as I know it does not mean that\n these folks deny the existence or divinity of the Father. I'm not the\n right one to describe this theology, and in fact I think there may be\n several, including what would classically be called monophysite or\n Arian (two rather different views), as well as some who have beliefs\n that are probably consistent with Trinitarian standards, but who won't\n use Trinitarian language because they misunderstand it or simply\n because it is not Biblical. --clh]\n\nNot Biblical? What then can they make of the end of Matthew?\n\n(28:18)And Jesus came and said to them, \"All authority in heaven and on\nearth has been given to me. (19)Go therefore and make disciples of all\nnations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and\nof the Holy Spirit, (20) and teaching them to obey everything that I\nhave commanded to you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end\nof the age.\" {Other ancient authorities add *Amen*} [NRSV]\n\nThe notes give no sense that this is emended. Do other texts\ncontradict this regarding Baptism? Or is a misunderstanding of the\nTrinity the most likely explanation after all?\n\nBut maybe I simply misunderstand their views. (Is anyone else out there\nforced to read this group with both a good Bible and an unabridged\ndictionary?? Christianity really is an education in itself.)\n\n--\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n[Arrgggghhhh. When I talked about people who rejected Trinitarian\nlanguage as unBiblical, I was speaking of Trinitarian theology, things\nlike \"one essense and three persons\". Obviously the three-fold\nbaptismal formula is Biblical, as you point out. (I normally use the\nterm \"three-fold\" in referring to Mat. While it is certainly\nconsistent with belief in the Trinity, the Trinity is a doctrine whose\nfull formulation occurred in the 4th and 5th Cent's. It's unlikely\nthat Mat. had in mind the fully-developed Trinitarian doctrine.\nIndeed the three-fold baptismal formula is used by some groups that do\nnot believe in the Trinity.) The disagreement over baptismal formulae\noccurs because of passages such as Acts 2:38, which command baptism in\nthe name of Jesus. (There are a couple of other passages in Acts as\nwell.) This leaves us with sort of a problem: we're commanded in Mat.\nto baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,\nand in Acts to baptize in the name of Jesus.\n\n\"Jesus only\" groups baptize in the name of Jesus. They consider this\nconsistent with Mat 28:18, because they say that Jesus is the name of\nthe Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I'm not the right one to\nask to explain what this means. I will simply say that it does not\nappear to be normal Trinitarian theology. (It is also an odd way of\ndealing with the idiomatic phrase \"in the name of\".)\n\nThose who use the three-fold formula don't seem to have a standard\nanswer to the passages talking about baptizing in the name of Jesus.\nI suspect that the most common explanation is to say that \"in the name\nof\" need not be a verbal formula. To say that you baptize in the name\nof Jesus may simply mean that you are doing baptism under Jesus'\nauthority. In the 1st Cent. context, it contrasts Christian baptism\nwith the baptism of John or other Jewish baptism. Of course there's a\ncertain parallelism between these passages. That suggests that we\ncould just as well say that Mat 28:18 doesn't require the specific\nthree-fold formula to be used in baptism, but simply characterizes\nbaptism done by those who follow the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.\n\nOne might well suspect that in the early church, more than one\nbaptismal formula was used. So long as we consider following Jesus to\nbe the same as following the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, no great\ndamage would be done by such a difference. This does *not* mean that\nI think we should go back to using both formulae. Baptism is one of\nthe few things that almost all Christian groups now recognize\nmutually, so I do not think doing something to upset that would be in\nthe interests of the Gospel. This is reinforced by the fact that\nthose groups that actually use \"in the name of Jesus\" now do seem to\nhave in mind a difference in doctrine. But as I've said before, I'm\nnot the one to explain what their doctrine is.", "\n\nSo these hypothetical conscious beings can ignore any influences of\ntheir circumstances (their genetics, their environment, their experiences)\nwhich are not all self-determined?\n\n(Of course, the idea of Hell makes the idea of \"free will\" dubious.\nOn the other hand, the idea of Hell is not a very powerful idea.\n\n\t\"A Parable for You\n\n\t\"There was once our main character who blah blah blah.\n\t\"One day, a thug pointed a mean looking gun at OMC, and\nsaid, 'Do what I say, or I'm blasting you to hell.'\n\t\"OMC thought, 'If I believe this thug, and follow the\ninstructions that will be given, I'll avoid getting blasted to\nhell. On the other hand, if I believe this thug, and do not\nfollow the instructions that will be given, I'll get blasted to\nhell. Hmm... the more attractive choice is obvious, I'll\nfollow the instructions.' Now, OMC found the choice obvious\nbecause everything OMC had learned about getting blasted to\nhell made it appear very undesirable.\n\t\"But then OMC noticed that the thug's gun wasn't a real\ngun. The thug's threats were make believe.\n\t\"So OMC ignored the thug and resumed blah blah blah.\")", "\n\nHomosexual Christians have indeed \"checked out\" these verses. Some of\nthem are used against us only through incredibly perverse interpretations.\nOthers simply do not address the issues.\n\nYou would seem to be more in need of a careful and Spirit-led course\nin exegesis than most of the gay Christians I know. I suggest that\nyou stop \"proof-texting\" about things you know nothing about.", "\n\nThe next time you go to church, you can check the better creed, that is,\nhave learned that on the first go around. But what's a body without \na little bit a'soul? \n\n\nAt the risk of offending everybody, I will interject the 13th century\npoint of view. Christ descended immediately into the bosom of Abraham\nto set captives captive. He preached to the saved for three days before\ndrawing them with Him back to this earth. I'm no expert on this part,\nbut Matthew (27:52-53) says about the death of Jesus: \"tombs were opened,\nand the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep were raised. And\ncoming forth from the tombs after his resurrection, they entered the\nholy city and appeared to many.\" (NAB) Regarding the hell of the\ndamned, of which you speak, Christ did not see it (Ps 16:10, Acts 2:27),\nalthough it saw Him (cf. Is 45:2). \n\nConcerning the abodes of the dead, I don't want to subject my brethren\nto further anguish, so I will direct you to contact me through e-mail\nif you are genuinely concerned. \n\n\nYour new body might be something like Adam's before his fateful encounter\nwith the Just One (Acts 7:52, CR trans. Vulgate): filled with infused\nknowledge, absent of concupiscence, and immortal. It would probably be\na little glorified, too.\n\n\nI wouldn't recommend it. It's really hot down at the center of the earth!\nYou know, the normal geothermal gradient, and all that.\n \nRegards.\n\n-- \nboundary, the catechist ", "\nThere is a very narrow margin of stupidity between accepting my references and\nthose of the Greeks, and you just said you'd rather do the latter! That's fine\nwith me. I was sincere in my offer, but this saves me the effort. It doesn't\ntake a half-brained man to go to any library and check out a bunch of sources\nof decent objectivity. Just ask a good friend for help. !:-)\n\n\n\"Stay on these roads,\"\n\nOnur Yalcin\n-- \nOnur Yalcin \noyalcin@iastate.edu", "\nFrom what I understand of my experience in looking up this word, and \ndiscussing it with a Greek-literate individual, the meaning of the \nword is rather clear. Basically it literally means \"he who beds with a man\"\nor \"he who has sex with a man.\" The burden of proof is on the \npro-homosexuality side of the argument to show that the word has an \nidiomatic meaning nor evident from its literal meaning. One can speculate\nall day long that it might mean something else, but we need evidence\nbefore we create new doctrines, and get rid of the historical understanding\nof the meaning of this word.\n\nLink Hudson.\n", "Persons interested in the tongues question are are invited to\nperuse an essay of mine, obtainable by sending the message\n GET TONGUES NOTRANS\n to LISTSERV@ASUACAD.BITNET or to\n LISTSERV@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU", "\n\n\nAnd organized religion is a religion built from organized values.\nAnd Ford Tempo is a Tempo built from Ford values.\nAnd rational response is response built from rational values.\nAnd unconditional surrender is surrender built from unconditional values.\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n uncle!", "\n\nActually in D&C 68:25-28 the parents are being held accountable for\ntheir own sins. Specifically they are accountable for their failure\nto teach their children properly. If I fail to teach my children\nthat stealing is wrong then I am responsible for their theft if they\nlater indulge in such behavior.", "\n\nBrian, have you checked out what your priests told you in the\nBible to see whether they were telling you the truth? Did you know\nthat according to the Bible, there shouldn't even be such things as\n\"priests\" anymore? Do you know why the preisthood was established in\nthe Old Testament to begin with and the reasons why after Jesus,\nthere were no priests--that is until the Roman Catholic Church \n300 years later devised the doctrine of transubstantiation by ignoring\nthe whole concept beyond the book of Hebrews?\n\nYou said you analyzed the Bible very closely. I think you are\nlying. For if you had, I would think you would have at least\ngot the doctrine of hell straight.", "\nhow can >this possibly be fair to the infants?\n\nWhat do you mean fair? God is just, giving to everyone what they\ndeserve. As all infants are in sin from the time of conception (cf\nRomans 5.12, Psalm 1.7), they cannot possibly merit heaven, and as\npurgatory is for the purging of temporal punishment and venial sins, it\nis impossible that origianl sin can be forgiven. Hence, the unbaptized\ninfants are cut off from the God against whom they, with the whole of\nthe human race except Mary, have sinned. Which is why Jesus said,\n\"Truly, truly I say to you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God unless\nhe is born of water and Spirit\" which is the true meaning of born again\n(John 3.5). Thus, as infants are in sin, it is very fair for them to be\ncut off from God and exlcuded from heaven.\n\nAs St. Augustine said, \"I did not invent original sin, which the\nCatholic faith holds from ancient time; but you, who deny it, without a\ndoubt are a follower of a new heresy.\" (De nuptiis, lib. 11.c.12)", "\n[ -and many others mailed me. Here is a reply to one of the letters. Seems to\nme that atheist do not like the doctrine of hell!]\n\n\n\nYour using 20th century concepts to interprete 1st century writers. Of course,\nin your termonology, God could not \"cease to exist.\" However, that is not what\ndeath ever means in the Scriptures. If you will study the word, you will see\nthat it signifies \"separation.\" Death is separation, not ceastation. This is\nthe reason for the agony of the cross. For the first time in eternity, one\nmember of the Godhead was separated from the other two. \n\nI once met a young lady that was as beautiful as any model that ever lived. \nShe was as personable as any saint ever imagined. She was to become my\n\"girlfriend\" for several years. However, having been drafted, we were\nseparated by distance. To me that was a form of death. Later, she decided\nthat she couldn't wait for me to come home and bid me adue. That to me was\ndeath. It was separation from that which had made me whole. Death is\nseparation and eternal death is eternal separation from His fellowship, not\nbecause He chose to send you into outer darkness, but because you chose to go\nthere. \n\n\n\nWhen I rebelled against my earthly father, he spanked me. I found no wisdom in\nthat until I had grown older and especially until I had my own children. He\nwas trying to guide me away from hurt that would enter my life if I continued\non my suicidal course. He did it in love though I interpreted it as harsh and\nunloving. If God warns of impending danger, that is love. If choose to let us\ndo as we please, and then at the end tell us the rules, that would be harsh. \nYou have a conscience, no matter how calused or fallen it is, that witnesses to\nyou that a thing is wrong and that there is cause for fear. \n\n\nThis may give light to the error of your understanding. One must have correct\nknowledge in order to have correct faith. Faith and knowledge are inseparable.\n Jesus most certainly felt the \"pinpricks\" of life. As the Scripture say:\n\nHeb. 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our\nweaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without\nsin.\n\nThe kenosis passage of Phil 2 states that He gave up His Godhead attributes\nwhen He took upon Himself humanity. It has been a favorite meditation of mine\nto think about this. It was to be my PhD thesis. \"The Consciousness of\nChrist.\" I have talked at length with a great many people about this\ninteresting study, including clh. \n\nIt is my conclussion that as Jesus, the 2nd member of the Trinity, actually\nsuffered as we do. He became part of the human race and experienced it as we\ndo. He \"grew in knowledge.\" He chose not to grasp His omniscience, but chose\nto be taught. It is my understanding that He was \"led of the Spirit\" to such\nan extent that sometimes it is hard to distinquish between Jesus the man and\nJesus as God. But in Jn 8 where the adulterous women was thrown before Him,\nthe tenses are quite clear in that the whole situation took Him by surprise. \nThat is, He was not aware that this event was to take place in time. He was\nliving sequential history as you or I. \n\nMaybe some other time we can discuss this, but it is a very lengthy discussion\nand one that causes the curcuit breakers of the brain to pop more often than\nnot.\n\n\nI was once a member of that club. THe \"free thinker\" is a glorious ideal. By\ncontrast, of course, you believe that the believer is the unforunate repository\nof everything that is dogmatic, inhibited, reactionary and repressive. I find\nsuch a stance to be as amusing as it is absurd. If the liberal humanist\nwishes to criticize a Christian or a Buddhist or a Marxist, that is his right. \nBut what he must not pretend is that he was led to this solely by his \"rational\ndoubt\" when in fact he was led to it by his \"faith\". He must acknowledge that\nwhile it is rational doubt for him as a \"free thinker\" to criticize the\nChristian, it might equally be a rational doubt for the Christian to criticize\nhim as a humanist. If there is no faith, there can be no dout. There is no\nfaith which cannot choose to cast doubt on some other faith.\n\nPascal pointed out that \"sceptical arguments allow the positive to be positive.\n Few. . .speak dubiously of scepticism.\" The fact that skeptics are not\nskeptical about skepticism is further evidence that to doubt anything we must\nbelieve in something else! THe person who is skeptical toward one faith or\neven most faiths, will be the devoted adherent of another. In fact, it is a\nmeasure of his poverty both that he is unaware of it and that he can define\nhimself only in negative terms, hence the term \"a\"-theist.\n\nSome people claim otherwise and argue vociferously for complete skepticism. In\nmy campus ministry I ran across this more times than I care to remember. \nHowever, they disproved their own argument with every thought, every word,\nevery point of logic that they used. Every moment of shared communication\nspeaks against their total skepticism. Their very insistence of trying to make\nsense is eloquent testimony to assumptions that are powerful though silent.\n\nThat is to say, that complete skepticism is impossible and limited skepticism\nis arbitrary. Next time you're in a room of skeptics, yell out \"Look, your fly\nis undone!\" Each person chooses what he is skeptical about and what he\nbelieves without skepticism. To stress this is to belabor the obvious, but it\nunderlines the point that no one can know exhaustively how he knows what he\nknows. Pure objectivism is a myth and complete skepticism an impossiblity. \nThe answer to this impasse lies in a 3rd way of knowing, one which is based on\npresuppositions. But if knowledge proceeds on what must be presupposed before\nit is proved, the cover is blown on the pretentions of critical doubt, and\ncritical doubt depends on the idea that human knowledge is totally objective\nand neutral. In other words, another myth. \n\nPresuppositions my friend. It is impossible to doubt anything unless there is\nsomething we do not doubt -our own assumptions/presuppostions. Even these can\nbe criticezed only upon the basis of other assumptions. Presuppostitons are\nour silent partners in thought but their silence must not be mistaken for\nabsence.\n\n\nOf course that is hardly an original statement. Milton coined it but it had\nbeen in use for millenia. It was even used in the first \"Highlander\" movie. \nBut again, your presuption is based on a faulty knowledge of the character of\nGod. You are operating off of a presuppositional premise of humanistic\ntheology, not what He has revealed of Himself through history, through His\nprophets, through His Word, and lastly, but most of all, thru His Son. If you\nare to reject God's annointed savior, then reject Him from a correct\nunderstanding of Himself.", "I have been studying the Bible now for about a year. I love it,\nbut I am not very familiar with the different denominations, or\ntraditions, or common beliefs of various christian groups.\nI have heard various people (outside this news group)\ndescribe *idols* such as power, money, material \npossessions etc. These things are worshiped in some sense I \nsuppose, but I never really gave idols much thought. Until now... \n\nI have been reading the postings in this news group (which I \njust found a few days ago), and I have a question... First, I'm\nnot trying to question anyone's belief or try to push my views\non anyone else (I haven't been at this long enough to have\nany views other than I cannot get to heaven by being good,\nI must understand that Christ bore my sins on the cross so that\nI could be saved and I need to repent, i.e. realize that\nevery time I sin, I might as well stick a sharp stick in\nChrist's side because He took the punishment for my sins,\nwhen He died on the cross).\n\nIn my studies, Mary never really comes up. I know who she is, \nbut that's about it. It seems to me that a statue of Mary \ncould be considered an idol? Do people pray to statues of Mary?\n\nIt sounds like educated christians (more educated than myself\nI'm sure) believe Mary was sinless? Wow... I hoped to spend\nthe summer convincing myself (one way or the other) about\nTongues (I'm reading \"Charismatic Chaos\"). I guess I'll study\nTongues in parallel with reading this news group. Any help you can \ngive me will be appreciated.\n\n -------------------------------------------\n\n[I don't think the issue is so much that people are more educated than\nyou (though it may well be that they are), as that they come from a\ndifferent tradition than yours.\n\nThis is a discussion between Catholics and Protestants. Catholics\ngenerally believe that Mary was sinless. Protestants do not. The\nissue comes down to different sources of authority. Protestants\ngenerally limit themselves to the Bible as a source of doctrine.\nSince this isn't in the Bible (except in passages that no one would\nunderstand in this way if they didn't already believe it), Protestants\ndon't accept it. Catholics see continuing revelation through the\nChurch, though they believe the results are consistent with the Bible.\n\nI interpret your posting, not as a call for yet another argument about\nwhether the Catholic Marian devotions are idolatry (an argument I am\nnot prepared to see newed here), but as a sign of being interested in\nlearning about traditions other than your own. Catholics are of\ncourse a major one, but by no means the only one. I generally\nconsider the major traditions to be Catholic, Orthodox, and\nvarious subsets of Protestantism. Within Protestantism, it's a matter\nof how finely you want to cut things. These days I think the major\ndivision is between those who accept Biblical inerrancy and those\nwho don't. There are also a number of major historical traditions,\nbut in recent decades distinctions are tending to blur. I'd \nidentify the major Protestant traditions as:\n\n Lutheran, Reformed, Anglican (they're sort of halfway between\n Catholic and Protestant), Wesleyan, Baptist, Holiness, Pentecostal,\n Church of Christ\n\nBut there are a number of others. Historical distinctions tend not to\nbe so important among the liberal churches anymore, and I think\ncurrent trends in society and the Church are also tending to make\nconservatives seen themselves as allies from a general \"evangelical\"\nperspective. But differences among these various traditions are still\nquite marked.\n\nI think the best introduction to these issues is to read a good book\non church history. Anyone who wants to understand the church really\nneeds to understand how we got where we are now. A church history\nwill normally show you where each of these traditions came from, and\ngive a feeling for their nature. Unfortunately I'm away from my\nlibrary at the moment, so I don't have anything specific to recommend.", "Excerpts from netnews.alt.atheism: 15-Apr-93 Re: thoughts on christians\nby Dave Fuller@portal.hq.vi \nI think it'd help if we got a couple good atheists (or even some good,\nsteadfast agnostics) in some high political offices. When was the last\ntime we had an (openly) atheist president? Have we ever? (I don't\nactually know; these aren't rhetorical questions.) How 'bout some\nSupreme court justices? \n\nOne thing that really ticked me off a while ago was an ad for a news\nprogram on a local station...The promo said something like \"Who are\nthese cults, and why do they prey on the young?\" Ahem. EVER HEAR OF\nBAPTISM AT BIRTH? If that isn't preying on the young, I don't know what\nis...\n\nI used to be (ack, barf) a Catholic, and was even confirmed...Shortly\nthereafter I decided it was a load of BS. My mom, who really insisted\nthat I continue to go to church, felt it was her duty (!) to bring me up\nas a believer! That was one of the more presumptuous things I've heard\nin my life. I suggested we go talk to the priest, and she agreed. The\npriest was amazingly cool about it...He basically said that if I didn't\nbelieve it, there was no good in forcing it on me. Actually, I guess he\nwasn't amazingly cool about it--His response is what you'd hope for\n(indeed, expect) from a human being. I s'pose I just _didn't_ expect\nit... \n\nI find it absurd that religion exists; Yet, I can also see its\nusefulness to people. Facing up to the fact that you're just going to\nbe worm food in a few decades, and that there isn't some cosmic purpose\nto humanity and the universe, can be pretty difficult for some people. \nHaving a readily-available, pre-digested solution to this is pretty\nattractive, if you're either a) gullible enough, b) willing to suspend\nyour reasoning abilities for the piece of mind, or c) have had the stuff\nrammed down your throat for as long as you can remember. Religion in\ngeneral provides a nice patch for some human weaknesses; Organized\nreligion provides a nice way to keep a population under control. \n\nBlech.\n\nChris\n\n", "\nI would just like to point out that the particular command not to eat\nor fellowship with Gentiles is not found in the Old Testament. This\nwas part of the \"hedge built around the law.\" It was a part of Peter's\ntradition, and not the Scripture.", "#In article <1r0sn0$3r@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>\n# \n#>|>#>#Theism is strongly correlated with irrational belief in absolutes. Irrational\n#>|>#>#belief in absolutes is strongly correlated with fanatism.\n# \n#(deletion)\n# \n#>|Theism is correlated with fanaticism. I have neither said that all fanatism\n#>|is caused by theism nor that all theism leads to fanatism. The point is,\n#>|theism increases the chance of becoming a fanatic. One could of course\n#>|argue that would be fanatics tend towards theism (for example), but I just\n#>|have to loook at the times in history when theism was the dominant ideology\n#>|to invalidate that conclusion that that is the basic mechanism behind it.\n#>\n#>IMO, the influence of Stalin, or for that matter, Ayn Rand, invalidates your\n#>assumption that theism is the factor to be considered.\n# \n#Bogus. I just said that theism is not the only factor for fanatism.\n#The point is that theism is *a* factor.\n\nThat's your claim; now back it up. I consider your argument as useful\nas the following: Belief is strongly correlated with fanaticism. Therefore\nbelief is *a* factor in fanaticism. True, and utterly useless. (Note, this\nis *any* belief, not belief in Gods)\n\n#>Gullibility,\n#>blind obedience to authority, lack of scepticism, and so on, are all more\n#>reliable indicators. And the really dangerous people - the sources of\n#>fanaticism - are often none of these things. They are cynical manipulators\n#>of the gullible, who know precisely what they are doing.\n# \n#That's a claim you have to support. Please note that especially in the\n#field of theism, the leaders believe what they say.\n\nIf you believe that, you're incredibly naive.\n\n#>Now, *some*\n#>brands of theism, and more precisely *some* theists, do tend to fanaticism,\n#>I grant you. To tar all theists with this brush is bigotry, not a reasoned\n#>argument - and it reads to me like a warm-up for censorship and restriction\n#>of religious freedom. Ever read Animal Farm?\n#>\n#That's a straw man. And as usually in discussions with you one has to\n#repeat it: Read what I have written above: not every theism leads to\n#fanatism, and not all fanatism is caused by theism. The point is,\n#there is a correlation, and it comes from innate features of theism.\n\nNo, some of it comes from features which *some* theism has in common\nwith *some* fanaticism. Your last statement simply isn't implied by\nwhat you say before, because you're trying to sneak in \"innate features\nof [all] theism\". The word you're groping for is \"some\".\n\n#Gullibility, by the way, is one of them.\n\nNo shit, Sherlock. So why not talk about gullibility instead of theism,\nsince it seems a whole lot more relevant to the case you have, as opposed\nto the case you are trying to make?\n\n#And to say that I am going to forbid religion is another of your straw\n#men. Interesting that you have nothing better to offer.\n\nI said it reads like a warm up to that. That's because it's an irrational\nand bogus tirade, and has no other use than creating a nice Them/Us \nsplit in the minds of excitable people such as are to be found on either\nside of church walls.\n\n#>|>(2) Define \"irrational belief\". e.g., is it rational to believe that\n#>|> reason is always useful?\n#>|>\n#>|\n#>|Irrational belief is belief that is not based upon reason. The latter has\n#>|been discussed for a long time with Charley Wingate. One point is that\n#>|the beliefs violate reason often, and another that a process that does\n#>|not lend itself to rational analysis does not contain reliable information.\n#>\n#>Well, there is a glaring paradox here: an argument that reason is useful\n#>based on reason would be circular, and argument not based on reason would\n#>be irrational. Which is it?\n#>\n#That's bogus. Self reference is not circular. And since the evaluation of\n#usefulness is possible within rational systems, it is allowed.\n\nO.K., it's oval. It's still begging the question, however. And though\nthat certainly is allowed, it's not rational. And you claiming to be\nrational and all.\n\nAt the risk of repeating myself, and hearing \"we had that before\" [we\ndidn't hear a _refutation_ before, so we're back. Deal with it] :\nyou can't use reason to demonstrate that reason is useful. Someone\nwho thinks reason is crap won't buy it, you see.\n\n#Your argument is as silly as proving mathematical statements needs mathematics\n#and mathematics are therfore circular.\n\nAnybody else think Godel was silly?\n\n#>The first part of the second statement contains no information, because\n#>you don't say what \"the beliefs\" are. If \"the beliefs\" are strong theism\n#>and/or strong atheism, then your statement is not in general true. The\n#>second part of your sentence is patently false - counterexample: an\n#>axiomatic datum does not lend itself to rational analysis, but is\n#>assumed to contain reliable information regardless of what process is\n#>used to obtain it.\n#>\n# \n#I've been speaking of religious systems with contradictory definitions\n#of god here.\n# \n#An axiomatic datum lends itself to rational analysis, what you say here\n#is a an often refuted fallacy. Have a look at the discussion of the\n#axiom of choice. And further, one can evaluate axioms in larger systems\n#out of which they are usually derived. \"I exist\" is derived, if you want\n#it that way.\n#\n#Further, one can test the consistency and so on of a set of axioms.\n# \n#what is it you are trying to say?\n\nThat at some point, people always wind up saying \"this datum is reliable\" \nfor no particular reason at all. Example: \"I am not dreaming\".\n\n#>|Compared the evidence theists have for their claims to the strength of\n#>|their demands makes the whole thing not only irrational but antirational.\n#>\n#>I can't agree with this until you are specific - *which* theism? To\n#>say that all theism is necessarily antirational requires a proof which\n#>I suspect you do not have.\n#>\n# \n#Using the traditonal definition of gods. Personal, supernatural entities\n#with objective effects on this world. Usually connected to morals and/or\n#the way the world works.\n\nIMO, any belief about such gods is necessarily irrational. That does\nnot mean that people who hold them are in principle opposed to the exercise of\nintelligence. Some atheists are also scientists, for example.\n\n#>|The affinity to fanatism is easily seen. It has to be true because I believe\n#>|it is nothing more than a work hypothesis. However, the beliefs say they are\n#>|more than a work hypothesis.\n#>\n#>I don't understand this. Can you formalise your argument?\n# \n#Person A believes system B becuase it sounds so nice. That does not make\n#B true, it is at best a work hypothesis. However, the content of B is that\n#it is true AND that it is more than a work hypothesis. Testing or evaluating\n#evidence for or against it therefore dismissed because B (already believed)\n#says it is wronG/ a waste of time/ not possible. Depending on the further\n#contents of B Amalekites/Idolaters/Protestants are to be killed, this can\n#have interesting effects.\n\nPeculiar definition of interesting, but sure. Now show that a belief\nin gods entails the further contents of which you speak. Why aren't my \ncatholic neighbours out killing the protestants, for example? Maybe they \ndon't believe in it. Maybe it's the conjunction of \"B asserts B\" and\n\"jail/kill dissenters\" that is important, and the belief in gods is\nentirely irrelevant. It certainly seems so to me, but then I have no\naxe to grind here. \n", "Ann Jackson (ajackson@cs.ubc.ca) wrote on 5 May:\n\n\n\n\nI would like to submit the following which helped me enormously.\nIf it has already been posted, I apologize.\n\nIt seems that during the Middle Ages, it was customary for pastors to \nexplain the Trinity to their parishoners by analogy to water.\nWater is water, but can exist in three forms--liquid, ice and vapor.\nThus it is possible for one essence to exist in three forms.\n\nAnd recently, the pastor of my church drew an analogy, which I\nalso found useful--A woman is often percieved by others in three\nways, depending on their relationship to her--a mother, a wife and\nan employee in a business.\n\nThus, it seems clear to me that the essence of God can subsist in\nthe Father, Son, and Holy Spirit or, depending on one's particular\nneed for Him.", "The Roman Catholic conservatives are coming out in the open to line\nup with Pat Robertson and his ultra Right Wing Christian Coalition.\nFormer Secretary of Education William Bennet, a Roman Catholic, stood\nbeside the Christian Coalition's spokesman Ralph Reed at a March 3\nconference in Washington. The purpose of the conference was to\npublish results of a Christian Coalition poll which was designed\nto prove that the Republican party would lose major support if it\nbacked away from the \"Family Values\" positons of the '92 convention.\n\nConservative Catholics have swung behind Robertson's organization\nwith political expertise, legal assistance and high tech communications\nsupport.\n\nThe Catholic Campaign for American, designed as a Catholic version\nof the Moral Majority, was founded by Marlene Elwell and Tom Wykes.\nMs. Elwell has been with Robertson since the days of his Freedom\nCouncil in 1985 and worked for him in his presidential bid in 1988.\n\nMs. Elwell was hired by Domino's Pizza magnate, Tom Monaghan, in 1989\nto manage Legatus, a \"nonpolitical\", Catholic businessmen's group.\nMembership is limited to Catholics who head corporations with a least $4\nmillion in annual revenues. Relying on a network of wealthy contacts\nat Legatus, Elwell and Wykes had little trouble forming and funding the\nCatholic Campaign.\n\nThe Campaign's list of national committee members includes U.S. Rep.\nRobert K. Dornan, Phyllis Schlafly of the Eagle Forum, the lovely\nPat Buchanan and Rev. Richard J. Neuhaus. Also on the national\ncommittee is Keith Fournier, a Catholic who heads Pat Robertson's\nAmerican Center for Law and Justice. Another Catholic, Thomas\nPatrick Monaghan, senior counsel of Robertson's ACLJ, is also an\nactive supporter of the Catholic Campaign.\n\nThe board of directors includes Frank Shakespeare, broadcasting exec\nand former U.S. ambassador to the Pope, Wall Street executive Frank\nLynch, former Reagan official Richard V. Allen, Bishop Rene Gracida\nof Corpus Christi and Mary Ellen Bork, wife of unsuccessful Supreme\nCourt nominee Robert Bork.\n\nIn the Winter 1992 issue of _Campaign Update_ the organization's\nquarterly newsletter, Rocco L. Martino, a Philadelphia business\nthat must finally be cast aside and replaced by the true meaning of\nour constitution.\"\n\nOh yes, the organization's \"national ecclesisatical advisor\" is\nCatholic politician Cardinal John J. O'Connor of New York.", "\n\n\n\n[...]\n\n\nI think you are mistaken in thinking Tom Scharle to be a atheist.\nYou will find both atheists and Christians among your opponents on t.o.\nCalling your opponents them \"Branch Athiests zealots\" does nothing for\nyour credibility.\n\n\nOh yes, do.\n\n\n\nDear me. This is taken _so_ out of context that it's hard to know where\nto start... The quote starts with material from p 78, and ends with material\nfrom page 81!\n\nOn page 78, there's the bit that says (the parts left out in John King's\n\"quote\" are marked by <>):\n\"<...> the doubt that has infiltrated the previous, smugly confident certitude\nof evolutionary biology<'s last twenty years> has inflamed passions .\"\n\nEldridge goes on immediately following the butchered quote:\n\"In short, evolutionary biology has entered a phase of creativity that is\nthe hallmark of good, active science.\"\n\nThe material that is on page 81 that is \"quoted\" by John King has been\nbutchered even more severely:\n\n\" **There is**[these words not\nin the original text-prl] lack of agreement even within warring camps\n<: things are really in uproar these days, and each of the \"basic\" ways\nof looking at evolutionary biology has its minor variants.> Sometimes\nit seems as if there are as many variations on each evolutionary theme\nas there are individual biologists.\"\n\nEldridge goes on:\n\"But that's the way it should be; this is how science is supposed to operate.\"\n\n\nAnd just a few sentences down:\n\n\"When they [creationists] misrepresent the exuberant, creative doubt and\ncontroversy permeating evolutionary biology these days, they are actively\npromoting scientific illiteracy.\"\n\nAnd that, John E. King, is precisely what you have done with Eldridge's\narticle. Are you personally responsible for the butchery of the text or\nhave you pulled it out of some creationist propaganda? You owe the people\nreading t.o an apology for posting such misrepresentation.\n", "\nHe is God.\n\n\nHe is God.\n\n\nGod granted you the gift of life whether you were sinner or saint.\n \n\nThe scientist creates the living creature to examine it, poke and prod it and\nlearn about its behaviour. He will kill it if it becomes a threat. For\nexample, let's say the scientist creates a Tyrannosaurus Rex and it breaks\nfree of its confines and starts devouring the population. The scientist\nwould not hesitate in killing it.\n\nGod creates us to be His loving companions. He knows whether we are true in \nour love for Him or not. And He lets us know the consequences of rejecting Him.\nGod cannot abide by sin. By rejecting God, a person becomes an enemy of God,\none that must be killed by Him. Note: I say that God and God alone is\nworthy to be Judge, Jury and Executioner. We are not called to carry out\nsuch duties because we are not worthy.\n \n\nGod is God. Who are we to question the Creator? If you doubt God's doing\nin certain situations, do you claim to know a better solution? Would you\nbe playing the role of God?", "Have any of you read Harold Camping's book \"1994?\"? It's about\nbiblical evidenc that points to September of 1994 as the probable time\nof Christ's second coming It's a very informative book and a must read\nfor all Christians. You can get i at your local bookstore for only\n$14.95.\n\nPeace!", "\nIn some earlier discussions on this thread I may have\ngiven the impression that even though children didn't \nrequire baptism it wouldn't hurt if they were.\nTo the contrary, when you baptize children before\nthey are capable of comprehending it you deny them \ntheir opportunity to demonstrate their desire to\nserve God.\n\nHave any of you considered that children are not\naccountable for sin because they are not capable of \nrepentance?\nPeter said to a group of \"men and brethren,\" \"Repent\nand be baptized every one of you\" (Acts 2:38).\nNotice that he specified that if they *repent* then \nthey may be *baptized*.\n\nIn following Peter's instructions people must first\ndemonstrate repentance (a forsaking of their sins and \na desire to obey God's commands) *before* they are \neligible to be baptized.\n\nSince young children are not capable of repenting,\nthey are not eligible for baptism.\nAnd since God is both just and merciful \"sin is not \nimputed when there is no law\" (Romans 5:13), young \nchildren are not accountable for what they can't \ncomprehend.", ": I heard on the radio today about a Christian student conference where\n: Christians were called to \"repent\" of America's \"national\" sins, such\n: as sexual promiscuity.\n: \n: To which I reply: ...whoa there!\n: \n: How can I repent of _someone else's_ sin? I can't.\n: \n: And when I claim to \"repent\" of someone else's sin, am I not in fact\n: _judging_ him? Jesus equipped us to judge activities but warned us\n: not to judge people. \"Judge not that ye be not judged.\"\n: \n: C. S. Lewis made the same point in an essay after World War II,\n: when some Christian leaders in Britain were urging \"national repentance\"\n: for the horrors (sins???) of World War II.\n: -- \n\nI see your point, but I cannot more strongly disagree.\n\nTo repent means to turn around. We, as a nation, have behaved incredibly\narrogantly toward God condoning, encouraging, and even forcing folks to\nparticipate in activity directly opposed to the written Word of God. We\nhave arrogantly set our nation far above the God who created it and allowed\nus the luxury of living in this land. We have set a bad example for other\nnations. We've slaughtered unborn children by the millions. We have\nstricken the name of God from the classroom. We've cheated God out of the\nhonor due Him at every turn, and we owe God an apology every bit as public\nas our sins have been.\n\nWhen Jesus said \"Judge not that ye be not judged\", he was not addressing\nthose like John the Baptist who had repented and were calling others to\nrepent. He was addressing those who remained in sin while heaping down\ncondemnation on others for their sins. His message to us all was to remove\nthe log from our own eye before removing the speck from our brother's. But\nHe also said to rebuke and to reprove. Don't forget that this is a command\ntoo.\n\nOur problem today is that we tend to judge and condemn as though we were\nrebuking and we tend to neglect bringing folks back to the Lord with the\nexcuse that we don't want to judge anyone.\n\nIn truth, what we need to do is to judge less and call others to repent more\nand to be able to distinguish between the two in our own motives. Call sin\nwhat it is and do so openly. Let it's charge fall correctly where it should.\nBut instead of running someone into hell over it, pull them out of their\nhellward path and onto the heavenward path.\n\n--\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\t\"I deplore the horrible crime of child murder...\n\t We want prevention, not merely punishment.\n\t We must reach the root of the evil...\n\t It is practiced by those whose inmost souls revolt\n\t from the dreadful deed...\n\t No mater what the motive, love of ease,\n\t\tor a desire to save from suffering the unborn innocent,\n\t\tthe woman is awfully guilty who commits the deed...\n\t but oh! thrice guilty is he who drove her\n\t\tto the desperation which impelled her to the crime.\"", "\n\nThis reads a lot like the philosophies of Musashi,\nin the Book of Five Rings. Much of the section on\nthe long sword is that of being strong and decisive.\n\nHmmm. The more things change....\n\n\nWhat an awfull thing to call your pillion!\n\n\n\nPower corrupts. Check out the explosion that the\ncryptography policy from the WhiteHouse Friday\nhas caused....\n", "\nOuch, this is a good question. To me, not existing is worse\nthan existing no matter what, so I will modify this question to be:\nwould I be a Christian if it made no eternal difference in my\nreward or punishment? I hope this is in the same spirit you want.\n\nI personally am very goal oriented. It is hard for me to do things\nthat do not achieve some goal. However, to relate this to sports, \nonly after I learned to not care about the score did I become\na good basketball player. I had to learn to go all out no matter\nthe situation. Perhaps this lesson is relevent. After all,\nonly if I can give up my life can I keep it, only if I am\nhumble can I achieve glory. Only if I concentrate on living\nmy life now the best I can will I be afforded life eternal.\nI think you have illuminated the true meaning of \"saved by faith.\"\n\nBut what is my answer? Right now I would remain a Christian.\nHowever, was that always my answer? That's the problem. Heaven\nand hell are good motivators at certain stages of maturity.\nAnd I admit there are certain times when perhaps I bite my\ntongue and put up with something in the hope of a better day,\ni.e. I mentally trade present happiness for future happiness.\nI hope the cynics and skeptics do not read more into that\nthan appropriate, but I am trying to be honest.\n\n\nI think these kinds of questions are extremely fruitful. I guess it\ndepends on how one views knowledge and learning. By stripping\nideas to simple, straightforward, opposing concepts we can\ndetermine levels of importance. By analyzing the theoretically \nabsurd we can gain a better understanding of the actually absurd.", ".d.\n.d.\nI just thought of another one, in the Bible, so it's definately not because\nof *lack* of religion. The Book of Esther (which I read the other day for\nother reasons) describes the origin of Pur'im, a Jewish celbration of joy\nand peace. The long and short of the story is that 75,000 people were\nkilled when people were tripping over all of the peacefull solutions \nlying about (you couldn't swing a sacred cow without slammin into a nice,\npeaceful solution.) 'Course Joshua and the jawbone of an ass spring to\nmind...\n\nI agree with Bobby this far: religion as it is used to kill large numbers\nof people is usually not used in the form or manner that it was originally\nintended for.\n\nThat doesn't reduce the number of deaths directly caused by religion, it is\njust a minor observation of the fact that there is almost nothing pure in\nthe Universe. The very act of honestly attempting to find true meaning in\nreligious teaching has many times inspired hatred and led to war. Many\npeople have been led by religious leaders more involved in their own\nstomache-contentsthan in any absolute truth, and have therefore been driven to\nkill by their leaders.\n\nThe point is that there are many things involved in religion that often\nlead to war. Whether these things are a part of religion, an unpleasant\nside effect or (as Bobby would have it) the result of people switching\nbetween Religion and Atheism spontaneously, the results are the same. \n\n@Religious groups have long been involved in the majority of the bloodiest\nparts of Man's history.@\n\nAtheists, on the other hand (preen,preen) are typically not an ideological\nsocial caste, nor are they driven to organize and spread their beliefs.\nThe overuse of Nazism and Stalinism just show how true this is: Two groups\nwith very clear and specific ideologies using religious persecution to\nfurther their means. Anyone who cannot see the obvious - namely that these\nwere groups founded for reasons *entirely* their own, who used religious\npersecution not because of any belief system but because it made them more\npowerfull - is trying too hard. Basically, Bobby uses these examples\nbecause there are so few wars that were *not* *specifically* fought over\nreligion that he does not have many choices.\n\nWell, I'm off to Key West where the only flames are heating the bottom of\nlittle silver butter-dishes.\n\n-ciao", "[reply to zazen@austin.ibm.com (E. H. Welbon)]\n \n \n \n \nFor many atheists, the lack of belief in gods is secondary to an\nepistemological consideration: what do we accept as a reliable way of\nknowing? There are no known valid logical arguments for the existence\nof gods, nor is there any empirical evidence that they exist. Most\nphilosophers and theologians agree that the idea of a god is one that\nmust be accepted on faith. Faith is belief without a sound logical\nbasis or empirical evidence. It is a reliable way of knowing?\n \nThere is probably nothing else most people would accept in the absence\nof any possibility of proof. Even when we agree to take someone elses\nword \"on faith\", we just mean that having found this person to be\nreliable in the past, we judge him likely to be a reliable source now.\nIf we find faith less reliable than logic and empirical evidence\neverywhere else, why assume it will provide reliable knowledge about\ngods?\n \nThe difference between the atheist and the theist is fundamentally then\none of whether or not faith is held to be a reliable way of knowing,\nrather than, as some agnostic posters would have it, whether ones faith\nis in gods or no gods. The theist believes that faith is an acceptable\nbasis for a belief in gods, even if he rejects faith as reliable at\nother times, for example in his work as a scientist. The atheist\nbelieves that only logic and empirical evidence lead to reliable\nknowledge. Agnosticism seems to me a less defensible position than\ntheism or atheism, unless one is a sceptic in regards to all other\nknowledge. Without evidence, why should we believe in gods rather than\nSanta Claus or the Easter Bunny?\n \nI would also like to point out as others have that the atheist doesn't\nrequire absolute knowledge of the lack of gods. I don't believe that\nthere is any such thing as absolute knowledge. Atheism is the best and\nsimplest theory to fit the (lack of) facts and so should be held until\ncontrary evidence is found.", "\nHi Adda,\n\nMost Bible scholars agree that there was one copy of each book at a certain\ntime -- the time when the author wrote it. Unfortunately, like all works\nfrom this time period and earlier, all that exists today are copies. \n\n\nThere are parts of books, scraps really, that date from around the\nmid second century (A.D. 130+). There are some complete books, letters,\netc. from the middle third century. The first complete collection of\nthe New Testament dates from the early 4th century (A.D. 325). Throughout\nthis period are writings of various early church fathers/leaders who\nquoted various scriptures in their writings.\n\n\nIf you mean that someone discovered thousands of \"Bibles\" which were all\nperfect copies dating from the last part of the 1st century...No!\n\nIf you mean that there are thousands of early manuscripts (within the\ndates given above, but not letter perfect) and that the most probable\ntext can be reconstructed from these documents and that the earliest\noriginal autographs (now lost) probably were written starting sometime\nshortly after A.D. 50, then yes.\n\n\nFrom the original authors. We call them Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter,\nPaul, James, and one other not identified.\n\n\nAs long as you make it.\n\n\nRegards,", "\nThat's okay: it's what all the rest of them who come on here say...\n\n\nThis isn't the guy who was a lawyer was he? Could you give more info on this\nguy (never mind- I'm sure there will be PLENTY of responses to this post, and\nit will appear there)\n\n\nThis is true. Make sure it is true for ALL cases.\n \n\nWhy not both? ;)\n \n\nWhy not die for a lie? If you were poverty stricken and alunatic, sounds\nperfecetly reasoable to me. As to whether the societal dregs he had for\nfollowers would be able to tell if he was a liar or not, not necessarily.\nEven if he died for what he believed in, this still makes him completely\nselfish. Like us all. So what's the difference.\n\n\nPeople \n\nThere is no historical proof of this (see earlier threads). Besides, he (or at\nleast his name), have been the cause of enough deaths to make up for whatever\nhealing he gave.\n\n\n\nSIEG HEIL!!\n\n\n\nWho is David Koresh? I am curious.\n\n \tTherefore since he wasn't a liar or a lunatic, he must have been the \n\nHow does this follow? Your definition of lunatic (and \"disproof\" thereof seem\nrather... uhhh.. SHAKY)\n\n\nGood idea.\n\n\nNaturally, those or not TRUE Christians, right? ;)\n\n\n\nSomeone else handle this, I don't know if it's worth it... *sigh*\n", "From the June newsletter of the Latin Liturgy Association:\n\nThere is a new e-mail discussion group: LATIN-L, a forum for people\ninterested in classical Latin, medieval Latin, Neo-Latin; the languages of\nchoice are Latin (of course) and whatever vulgar languages you feel\ncomfortable using. Please be prepared to translate on request. The field\nis open -- name your topic! In order to subscribe, BITNET users should\nsend an interactive message of the form \"TELL LISTSERV@PSUVM SUB LATIN-L\n[your name]\". INTERNET users should send a message (without a subject\nline) to the address LISTSERV@PSUVM.PSU.EDU. The message should read \"SUB\nLATIN-L [your name]\". Once subscribed, one may participate by sending\nmessages to LATIN-L@PSUVM or LATIN-L@PSUVM.PSU.EDU.\n", "\nI'd love to know how \"Jesus only\" proponents would answer questions like:\n\n-Who is this \"Father\" Jesus keeps referring to? Why does He call Himself \"the\nSon\"?\n\n-Why does He pray to the Father, and not to himself?\n\n-Why does He emphasize that he does his Father's will, and not his own? If He\n was doing his own will, what kind of example is that? Should we follow it?\n\n-When He says he has to return to the Father, who is He going to?\n\n-When He says he does this in order that the Comforter, the Holy Spirit might\n come, who might that be?\n\n-If He claims that the coming of the Holy Spirit is such a blessing that it's\n worth His leaving us and returning to the Father, what can that mean if there\n is no Holy Spirit?\n\n-Why doesn't the best known Christian prayer begin \"Our Saviour, who art in\n heaven,\" rather than \"Our Father?\"\n\nDo they have answers to these questions that are even plausible?\n\n(Further entertaining queries are left as an exercise to the reader.)\n\n-drt\n\n-- \n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n------------------------------------------------------------------------", "According to mdbs@ms.uky.edu, muslims tithe 1/6 of their income.\n\nPerhaps there are some offshoots of Islam that impose this on their\nfollowers. But the standard tithe is 1/40 of one's net worth, once\na year.\n\nThe same writer also objects to the Bible for teaching that\n\n > \"woman was created after man, to be his helper\" etc.\n\nThis is presumably a reference to Genesis 2. Suppose that that\nchapter had been written with the sexes reversed. We have God\ncreating woman, and then saying, \"It is not good that woman should\nbe alone. I will make a help meet for her.\" Feminists would be\noutraged. The clear implication would be that God had started at the\nbottom and worked up, making first the plants, then the fish and\nbirds, then the beasts, then woman, and finally His masterpiece, the\nMale Chauvinist Pig. The statement that woman is not capable of\nfunctioning by herself, that she needs a man to open doors for her,\nwould have been seen as a particularly gratuitous insult. The fact\nthat the creation of woman from the dust of the ground was given\nonly briefly and in general, while the creation of the Man was given\nin six times the number of words, would have been cited as evidence\nof the author's estimate of the relative importance of the sexes.\nThe verdict would have been unequivocal. \"No self-respecting woman\ncan accept this book as a moral guide, or as anything but sexist\ntrash!\" I suggest that Moses, fearing this reaction, altered his\noriginal draft and described the creation with Adam first and then\nEve, so as to appease Miriam and other radical feminists of the day.\nFor some reason, however, it did not work.", "\n\n\n\tReligious fanaticism?", "This kind of argument cries for a comment...\n\n\n \n: >>...God did not create\n: >>disease nor is He responsible for the maladies of newborns.\n: > \n: >>What God did create was life according to a protein code which is\n: >>mutable and can evolve. Without delving into a deep discussion of\n: >>creationism vs evolutionism, God created the original genetic code\n: >>perfect and without flaw. \n: > ~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~\n\nDo you have any evidence for this? If the code was once perfect, and\nhas degraded ever since, we _should_ have some evidence in favour\nof this statement, shouldn't we?\n\nPerhaps the biggest \"imperfection\" of the code is that it is full\nof non-coding regions, introns, which are so called because they\nintervene with the coding regions (exons). An impressive amount of\nevidence suggests that introns are of very ancient origin; it is\nlikely that early exons represented early protein domains.\n\nIs the number of introns decreasing or increasing? It appears that\nintron loss can occur, and species with common ancestry usually\nhave quite similar exon-intron structure in their genes. \n\nOn the other hand, the possibility that introns have been inserted\nlater, presents several logical difficulties. Introns are removed\nby a splicing mechanism - this would have to be present, but unused,\nif introns are inserted. Moreover, intron insertion would have\nrequired _precise_ targeting - random insertion would not be tolerated,\nsince sequences for intron removal (self-splicing of mRNA) are\nconserved. Besides, transposition of a sequence usually leaves a\ntrace - long terminal repeats and target - site duplications, and\nthese are not found in or near intron sequences. \n\nI seriously recommend reading textbooks on molecular biology and\ngenetics before posting \"theological arguments\" like this. \nTry Watson's Molecular Biology of the Gene or Darnell, Lodish\n& Baltimore's Molecular Biology of the Cell for starters.\n\n: Remember, the question was posed in a theological context (Why does\n: God cause disease in newborns?), and my answer is likewise from a\n: theological perspective -- my own. It is no less valid than a purely\n: scientific perspective, just different.\n\nScientific perspective is supported by the evidence, whereas \ntheological perspectives often fail to fulfil this criterion.\n \n: I think you misread my meaning. I said God made the genetic code perfect,\n: but that doesn't mean it's perfect now. It has certainly evolved since.\n\nFor the worse? Would you please cite a few references that support\nyour assertion? Your assertion is less valid than the scientific\nperspective, unless you support it by some evidence.\n\nIn fact, it has been claimed that parasites and diseases are perhaps\nmore important than we've thought - for instance, sex might\nhave evolved as defence against parasites. (This view is supported by\ncomputer simulations of evolution, eg Tierra.) \n \n: Perhaps. I thought it was higher energy rays like X-rays, gamma\n: rays, and cosmic rays that caused most of the damage.\n\nIn fact, it is thermal energy that does most of the damage, although\nit is usually mild and easily fixed by enzymatic action. \n\n: Actually, neither of us \"knows\" what the atmosphere was like at the\n: time when God created life. According to my recollection, most\n: biologists do not claim that life began 4 billion years ago -- after\n: all, that would only be a half billion years or so after the earth\n: was created. It would still be too primitive to support life. I\n: seem to remember a figure more like 2.5 to 3 billion years ago for\n: the origination of life on earth. Anyone with a better estimate?\n\nI'd replace \"created\" with \"formed\", since there is no need to \ninvoke any creator if the Earth can be formed without one.\nMost recent estimates of the age of the Earth range between 4.6 - 4.8\nbillion years, and earliest signs of life (not true fossils, but\norganic, stromatolite-like layers) date back to 3.5 billion years.\nThis would leave more than billion years for the first cells to\nevolve.\n\nI'm sorry I can't give any references, this is based on the course\non evolutionary biochemistry I attended here. \n\n: >>dominion, it was no great feat for Satan to genetically engineer\n: >>diseases, both bacterial/viral and genetic. Although the forces of\n: >>natural selection tend to improve the survivability of species, the\n: >>degeneration of the genetic code tends to more than offset this. \n\nAgain, do you _want_ this be true, or do you have any evidence for\nthis supposed \"degeneration\"? \n\nI can understand Scott's reaction:\n\n: > Excuse me, but this is so far-fetched that I know you must be\n: > jesting. Do you know what pathogens are? Do you know what \n: > Point Mutations are? Do you know that EVERYTHING CAN COME\n: > ABOUT SPONTANEOUSLY?!!!!! \n: \n: In response to your last statement, no, and neither do you.\n: You may very well believe that and accept it as fact, but you\n: cannot *know* that.\n\nI hope you don't forget this: We have _evidence_ that suggests \neverything can come about spontaneously. Do you have evidence against\nthis conclusion? In science, one does not have to _believe_ in \nanything. It is a healthy sign to doubt and disbelieve. But the \nright path to walk is to take a look at the evidence if you do so,\nand not to present one's own conclusions prior to this. \n\nTheology does not use this method. Therefore, I seriously doubt\nit could ever come to right conclusions.\n\n: >>Human DNA, being more \"complex\", tends to accumulate errors adversely\n: >>affecting our well-being and ability to fight off disease, while the \n: >>simpler DNA of bacteria and viruses tend to become more efficient in \n: >>causing infection and disease. It is a bad combination. Hence\n: >>we have newborns that suffer from genetic, viral, and bacterial\n: >>diseases/disorders.\n\nYou are supposing a purpose, not a valid move. Bacteria and viruses\ndo not exist to cause disease. They are just another manifests of\na general principle of evolution - only replication saves replicators\nfrom degradiation. We are just an efficient method for our DNA to \nsurvive and replicate. The less efficient methods didn't make it \nto the present. \n\nAnd for the last time. Please present some evidence for your claim that\nhuman DNA is degrading through evolutionary processes. Some people have\nclaimed that the opposite is true - we have suppressed our selection,\nand thus are bound to degrade. I haven't seen much evidence for either\nclaim.\n \n: But then I ask, So? Where is this relevant to my discussion in\n: answering John's question of why? Why are there genetic diseases,\n: and why are there so many bacterial and viral diseases which require\n: babies to develop antibodies. Is it God's fault? (the original\n: question) -- I say no, it is not.\n\nOf course, nothing \"evil\" is god's fault. But your explanation does\nnot work, it fails miserably.\n \n: You may be right. But the fact is that you don't know that\n: Satan is not responsible, and neither do I.\n: \n: Suppose that a powerful, evil being like Satan exists. Would it\n: be inconceivable that he might be responsible for many of the ills\n: that affect mankind? I don't think so.\n\nHe could have done a much better Job. (Pun intended.) The problem is,\nit seems no Satan is necessary to explain any diseases, they are\njust as inevitable as any product of evolution.\n\n: Did I say that? Where? Seems to me like another bad inference.\n: Actually what you've done is to oversimplify what I said to the\n: point that your summary of my words takes on a new context. I\n: never said that people are \"meant\" (presumably by God) \"to be\n: punished by getting diseases\". Why I did say is that free moral\n: choices have attendent consequences. If mankind chooses to reject\n: God, as people have done since the beginning, then they should not\n: expect God to protect them from adverse events in an entropic\n: universe.\n\nI am not expecting this. If god exists, I expect him to leave us alone.\nI would also like to hear why do you believe your choices are indeed\nfree. This is an interesting philosophical question, and the answer\nis not as clear-cut as it seems to be.\n\nWhat consequences would you expect from rejecting Allah?\n \n: Oh, I admit it's not perfect (yet). But I'm working on it. :)\n\nA good library or a bookstore is a good starting point.\n\n: What does this have to do with the price of tea in China, or the\n: question to which I provided an answer? Biology and Genetics are\n: fine subjects and important scientific endeavors. But they explain\n: *how* God created and set up life processes. They don't explain\n: the why behind creation, life, or its subsequent evolution.\n\nWhy is there a \"why behind\"? And your proposition was something\nthat is not supported by the evidence. This is why we recommend\nthese books.\n\nIs there any need to invoke any why behind, a prime mover? Evidence\nfor this? If the whole universe can come into existence without\nany intervention, as recent cosmological theories (Hawking et al)\nsuggest, why do people still insist on this?\n \n: Thanks Scotty, for your fine and sagely advice. But I am\n: not highly motivated to learn all the nitty-gritty details\n: of biology and genetics, although I'm sure I'd find it a\n: fascinating subject. For I realize that the details do\n: not change the Big Picture, that God created life in the\n: beginning with the ability to change and adapt to its\n: environment.\n\nI'm sorry, but they do. There is no evidence for your big picture,\nand no need to create anything that is capable of adaptation.\nIt can come into existence without a Supreme Being.\n\nTry reading P.W. Atkins' Creation Revisited (Freeman, 1992).\n\nPetri", "\nSame old bullshit. Not being given to delusions and wishful thinking\nI do not have the option of either loving or obeying that which I have\nso reason to believe.\n\n\nMore bullshit. I assure you in my misguided youth I made a sincere effort.\nIt was very painful being a rational person raised in Christian home.\nMany others could tell the same story. You choose not to believe anyone's\nexperience which contradicts your smug theories.", "\n\nSo does that mean that anyone who is a Christian to avoid Hell isn't really\na Christian at all? It sounds like it to me.\n\nMit Liebe in Christus,\n Martyn R. Mellodew. (u0mrm@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk)\n\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nMartyn R. Mellodew, | E-mail: u0mrm@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk\nDepartment of Applied Mathematics | ARPA/Internet: u0mrm@csc.liv.ac.uk\n and Theoretical Physics, | JANET: u0mrm@uk.ac.liv.csc\nThe University of Liverpool, |\nP.O. Box 147, | \nLiverpool, |\nEngland, | \nL69 9BX. | `Dubito ergo Deus est.'", "\nYou ask where we are. I would echo that question. I'm not trying to be\ncontentious. But assuming that the Pope has universal jurisdiction\nand authority, what authority do you rely upon for your decisions?\nWhat prevents me from choosing ANY doctrine I like and saying that\nPapal disagreement is an error that will be resolved in time?\nThis is especially true, since Councils of Bishops have basically\nstood by the Pope.\n\nIt appears that much of what lies at the heart of this matter is\ndisagreements over what is tradition and Tradition, and also over\nauthority and discipline. \n\nMy question to the supporters of SSPX is this:\n\n Is there ANY way that your positions with respect to church reforms\n could change and be conformed to those of the Pope? (assuming that\n the Pope's position does not change and that the leaders of SSPX\n don't jointly make such choice.)\n\nIf not, this appears to be claiming infallible teaching authority.\nIf I adopt the view that \"I'm NOT wrong, I CAN'T be wrong, and\nthere's NO WAY I'll change my mind, YOU must change yours\", that\nI've either left the Catholic Church or it has left me.\n\nThe Orthodox Church does not recognize papal authority/jurisdiction\nviewing authority as present in each bishop, and in Ecumenical\nCouncils. We regard the subsequent development of the doctrines \nregarding papal authority and jurisdiction to be a separation of\nthe Bishop of Rome from the Orthodox church. Without going into\nthe merits of the Great Schism, at least the Orthodox agree that\na split occurred, and don't paly what appear to be semantic games\nlike \"He's the Pope, but we don't recognize that what he does\nis effective...\". Words aside, it appears to be a de facto split.\n\n\nWe sould argue from now until the Second Coming about what the \"real\"\ntraditional teaching of the Church is. If this were a simple matter\nEast and West would not have been separated for over 900 years.\n \n\nI thought that the teaching magisterieum of the church did not allow\nerror in teachings regarding faith and morals even in the short term.`\nI may be wrong here, I'm not Roman Catholic. :-)\n\nWhat would be the effect of a Pope making an ex cathedra statement\nregarding the SSPX situation? Would it be honored? If not, how\ndo you get around the formal doctrine of infallibility?\nAgain, I'm not trying to be contentions, I'm trying to understand.\nSince I'm Orthodox, I've got no real vested interest in the outcome,\none way or the other.\n\n\nIt does if the command was legitimate. SSPX does not view the\nPope's commands as legitimate. Why? This is a VERY slippery slope.\n \n\nTrue enough.\n\n\nOne could argue that they are establishing a non-geographic jurisdiction.\nI don't know if that's even a concept or problem in Catholic circles.\n \nLarry Overacker (llo@shell.com)\n-- ", " \n \nOk boys & girls, hang on; here we go!\n \n Christ's Eternal Gospel Robinson & Robinson\n The Dead Sea Scrolls & the NT WS LaSor\n James the Just in Habakkuk Pesher RH Eisenman\n Maccabees ... Quamran RH Eisenman\n Dead Sea Scrolls Uncovered Eisenman & Wise\n Dead Sea Scrolls Deception Baigent & Leigh\n Jesus & Riddle of Dead Sea Scrolls B Thiering\n Jesus Scroll D Joyce\n \nHappy Reading & welcome aboard\n \n \nA poor Wayfaring Stranger [some say, a Strange One] in a strange land,\n \n +---------------------------------------------------------------------+\n | Disclaimer: Not my employer's opinion; probably |\n | not your's either; and |\n | only mine, when authorized! |\n | |\n | Try: Roger_Holfeltz@stortek.com |\n +---------------------------------------------------------------------+", "\nOne rule of thumb is that if a person is making the claim, they are\nwrong. I was just reading John 14 this morning (I think that is the\nright chapter, anyway it is close and I don't have a Bible at work to\ncheck with.) and in it Jesus is talking to his disciples about his\nimpending death and he says that he will be going away and then later\nhe will be with them. He said something along the lines of \"I will\nbe in you and you will be in me.\" (Again I cannot provide the exact\nquote or citation.) Anyway, my understanding of this is that\nthe Second Coming will not be an outward event. It is an inward\nevent, Christ will come to live in our hearts and we will live in him.\nIf you look for a person you will be deceived.\n\nIt seems to me that the Jews had been looking for a Messiah that would\nbe a political or military leader and so didn't recognize Jesus when\nhe came. Jesus tried to show that his Kingdom was not of this earth.\nA lot of what I have seen written about the Second Coming seems to\nbased on an expectation of Christ coming back and finally taking over\nthe world and running it the way it should be. It sounds a lot like\nwhat the Jews were looking for. The First Coming wasn't like that and\nI see no reason for the Second Coming to be like that either.\n\nOh and by the way, I don't expect it to happen once. There is no one\nSecond Coming, there are a lot of little ones. Every time Christ\ncomes into someones heart, Christ has come again.\n\nPeace,\nWill.\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ", "\nRB> \nRB> No, that's praying on the young. Preying on the young comes\nRB> later, when the bright eyed little altar boy finds out what the\nRB> priest really wears under that chasible.\n\nThe same thing Scotsmen where under there kilt.\n\nI'll never forget the day when I was about tweleve and accidently\nwalked in on a roomfull of priests sitting around in their underware\ndrinking beer and watching football. \n\nKind of changed my opinion a bit. They didn't seem so menacing after\nthat.\n\n", "The problems with Catholic liturgy are likely to continue for\nsome time. The problem is, in a nutshell, this: the Liturgy is a\nsymbolic action - in other words Catholics do [or should] believe that\nthe _signs_ during the mass - Water, Blessings, Vestments, Altar,\nRelics, etc - are real. That is the sprinkling of water bestows real,\nalmost tangible, holiness, the Vestments are a real indication of real\nsacred time. The point of a _symbol_ is that it is understood by all\nto be connected to an underlying REAL referent. This kind of thinking\nprecludes analysis; holy water is not holy because of anything, it\nsimply IS holy.\n\nBut, modern westerners find it extremely difficult, especially if\nwell- educated, to think of the mass as a symbol. We are more likely\nto see it as a _sign_, ie an action that represents grace, but which\ncould be replaced with other signs. In concrete terms, this means the\nmass has become a commercial for God's grace rather than the real\nthing. You can mess around with a commercial in a way you wouldn't\ndare with the real thing [ask Coca-Cola Co.!]. These attitudes have\nbeen encouraged by Liturgy workshops, etc. which instead of focusing\non _how_ to do do liturgy, have focused on how to create a meaning in\nliturgy. You can only create signs, symbols have to come from God [or\nthe heart, or somewhere deeper than analysis. The most dramatic\nexample of this shift in understanding has been in the treatment of\nthe sacred species [the consecrated host and wine]. Now, with pita\nbread etc, it is common to come away from the altar with hands covered\nin particles. If the Host is a sign of Grace, this isnt and issue; but\nCatholics in the past would have been distraught at this real\ndesacration of the real symbol of Jesus' body.\n\nModern Catholic liturgy is caught in this epistemological shift. We\ntry to perfrom the old rites, but then we have some liturgomaniac\npriest get up and 'explain' what we are doing - so we stop doing it and\nstart pretending to do it. This is not a soul filling experience.\nIt doesn't help BTW that we have got stuck witha huge amount of two and\nthree chord ersatz-folk music [again a result of mis-analysis: complicated\ntunes are in fact easier to remember than simple ones - this was the\ngenius of Wesley and the 19C Anglican hymn writers]. Taize' is only\nslightly better.\n\nWhat are we to do? Well I suggest rejecting the parish system if it\ndoesn't work for you. Search out a Church where the liturgy is well\nprepared not well-explained. They exist in every city. This is not BTW\na matter of particular style: the music might be old or new. It is\nthe attitude of the church that counts. Also, note that a conservative\nliturgy - harking back to pre-Vatican II days, does not necessarily mean\nthe Church will be socially conservative.\n\nIn NYC I can recommend:\n\tCorpus Christi - W 12st St.\n\tCorpus Christi - W 12st St. - very conservative liturgy, \n\tSt. Joseph's, Greenwich Village. - Modern, \"clean\", largely gay\n\tOratorian Church, Brooklyn - Very beautiful\n\nAvoid, anywhere, anytime a church with electric candles.\n\nHappy Easter: Christos Aneste', Christos Voskrezhne, Christ is Risen", "I must correct the following in my previous posting:\n \n: If you are trying to be objective, you must also recognise that\n: \n: 1) the gospels are not independent sources, on the contrary, they\n: share much of the same material\n\nI should have been a bit more careful here - the gospels not only\ntell us about the same events, they usually use the same wordings.\nTextual analyses show that Matthew and Luke probably had a common\nsource, which may have influenced Mark, too.\n\nPetri\n", " \n(Deletion)\n(Deletion)\n \nAn universe it has created. By the way, can you tell me why it is less\ntyrannic to let one of one's own creatures do what it likes to others?\nBy your definitions, your god has created Satan with full knowledge what\nwould happen - including every choice of Satan.\n \nCan you explain us what Free Will is, and how it goes along with omniscience?\nDidn't your god know everything that would happen even before it created the\nworld? Why is it concerned about being a tyrant when noone would care if\neverything was fine for them? That the whole idea comes from the possibility\nto abuse power, something your god introduced according to your description?\n ", "[On secrecy in LDS ceremonies. --clh]", ": Are you saying that their was a physical Adam and Eve, and that all\n: humans are direct decendents of only these two human beings.? Then who\n: were Cain and Able's wives? Couldn't be their sisters, because A&E\n: didn't have daughters. Were they non-humans?\n\nGenesis 5:4\n\nand the days of Adam after he begat Seth were eight hundred years, and\nhe begat sons and daughters:", "Thanks for the letter, your comments helped some.\n\nAs to the last comment, I certainly realize that it was not intended to\nsound that way. I am still trying to understand *how* a spiritual being\ncolud truly be one and three at the same time. All of the descriptions\nof this are either Platonic or sound like special pleading (sort of,\n\"they appear to be three seperate beings in all ways, but really they are\none, trust me\").\n\nNeither of these is acceptible to me.\n\nThe fact is, so far the only descriptions of the trinity that makes any\n*sense* to me are the modalistic ones, such as Modalistic Monarchianism\nor \"Economic Trinitarianism\". [I can accept that the three aspects are\nintrinsic to the nature of God, so I perhaps lean more towards the latter].\n\nI am trying, here, to see if anybody can come up with another description\nthat is both orthodox and believable.\n\n-- \nsarima@teradata.com\t\t\t(formerly tdatirv!sarima)\n or\nStanley.Friesen@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com", "\n[ a lot of religious opinions and quotations from the Bible and from \nmany Catholic theologians and Papal Bulls ]\n\n[ which, although introduced with a smiley, was not as funny as it\nmight have been (notable exception: subject headers such as \"ONE'S \nDICK IS ONE'S INSTRUMENT OF REDEMPTION.\" ]\n\n[ and indeed, the posting seemed to be more a vehicle for the\nreligious text than for any \"literary/moral analysis\" ]\n\nI am surprised and saddened. I would expect this kind of behavior\nfrom the Evangelical Born-Again Gospel-Thumping In-Your-Face We're-\nThe-Only-True-Christian Protestants, but I have always thought \nthat Catholics behaved better than this.\n\nFriend Dennis, I urge you to follow the example of your fellow\nCatholics, of who I count many dozens as my friends, and practice\nyour faith through good example and decent living and respect\nfor the common humanity of others. Please do not stoop to the\nlevel of the E B-A G-T I-Y-F W-T-O-T-C Protestants, who think\nthat the best way to witness is to be strident, intrusive, loud,\ninsulting and overbearingly self-righteous.\n\nThe imagery in the Song of Solomon is a little bit dated (get it? \nMiddle East - date palms - oh, never mind) but apparently acceptable, \non a steaminess level, to be accepted as part of the canon. From\nthis fact I derive that erotica itself is not incompatible with\nCatholic doctrine.\n\nIs there such a thing as Catholic erotica? Not necessarily a love\nstory between people of that faith, but a love story that is not\nexploitative, does not seek redemption through penis size, pays\nproper respect to the dignity of each partner, and is still erotic\nenough to have a place on a.s.s.\n\nI would submit that the _Darknites_ series of stories qualify, also\nmost of the _Journal Entries_, and _Rings I and II_.\n\nI would guess that your aim is to cut down on the pornography and\nincrease the erotica. I actually agree with you that nearly all of\nthe \"I've got an enormous dick, and I shot my wad all over her face\"\nstories are crap. I count them as noise, which makes my take on the\nsignal-to-noise ration much lower than many other people's.\n\nSince you are one of the few posters here who can actually write \ndecent prose, could you write a few stories for us instead of\noverwhelming us with commentary? \n\n-- \nThank you.", "\nThen Mr Mozumder is incorrect when he says that when committing\nbad acts, people temporarily become atheists?", "\n\nThe argument for Luke's genealogy being that of Mary is very weak. According\nto Luke 3:23\n\n And when he began his ministry, Jesus himself was about \n thirty years of age, being supposedly the son of Joseph,\n the son of Eli,\n\nAside from the fact that Mary is not mentioned, there are two possible\ninterpretations: either Joseph was her father or he was her brother.\nClearly this is not acceptable. A third would be that Joseph, the son\nof Eli, was her Father and just happened to have the name as the man\nto whom she was betrothed. But that would seem to be grasping at\nstraws. The most straightforward interpretation is that Luke had no\nintention of tracing Mary's genealogy (in which case he would have\nnamed her) but that he traces her husband's, from David's son Nathan.\n\nThe Matthew descendant list most definitely traces down from David's\nson, Solomon, to Joseph. Matthew 1:16 reads:\n\n And to Jacob was born Joseph, the husband of Mary, by whom was born\n Jesus, who is called Christ. \n\nThere are two apparent problems. The first is, how to reconcile the\ntwo paternal genealogies - which diverge with the sons of David,\nSolomon and Nathan. The second is, why is any genealogy of Joseph\nrelavent at all, if Joseph had nothing to do with it. If Joseph was\nnot Jesus's physical father, then the original poster is quite\ncorrect, that claims for Jesus's messianic heritage are not based on\ntruth but only on appearances, whatever Jesus's divine nature was.\n\nThe second problem is easy, in my mind. We assume that Joseph was not\ninvolved in the conception of Jesus in any way. However, a Holy\nSpirit capable of working a physical conception in Mary is also\ncapable of employing the physical agency of Joseph's seed in this\nwork. In our materialistic times we interpret viginity and its loss\nsolely in terms of a physical act, whereas it is really a matter of\npurity on a much higher level as well. The important thing is that\nneither Mary nor Joseph was conscious of any union between them (they\nhad not \"known\"each other). Thus the first gospel's dedication of\nhalf its opening chapter to the genealogy of Joseph is quite relevant\nto Jesus, the Virgin birth not- withstanding.\n\nTo the first question there is an answer that creates, to begin with, more\nproblems than it resolves. It is that the two evangelists are relating \nthe births of two entirely different children of two entirely different\nsets of parents. Except for the names of the parents and the child, and \nthe birthplace in Bethlehem there is no point in common between the two \nstories. Matthew and Luke converge in their accounts only thirty years\nlater with the Baptism of Jesus in Jordan. Rudolf Steiner offered his\nexplanation of how these accounts begin with two children and then converge\nwith their accounts of the one Jesus of Nazareth. He did not derive his\nresolution from biblical study or speculation, or from other external\ndocuments, and the discussion of \"how this could be\" might bring us beyond\nthe limits of appropriateness for this newsgroup. In any case, the\ndetails are described in Steiner's \"The Spiritual Guidance of the Human \nBeing and of Humanity\", \"The Gospel of St. Luke\", and \"The Gospel of St.\nMatthew\". \n\nWhether or not Rudolf Steiner's methods and explanation are accepted\nas valid, at least this interpretation resolves the apparent\ncontradictions of the two genealogies while leaving the text intact.\n\nAs for the passing of one's Jewishness through the mother, this was\nnever an issue with Jesus. No one ever questioned his or Mary's\nJewishness. The issue of the genealogies has to do with his paternal\nline of descent from David, the king.", "\nAnother person incapable of rational thought!", "Dean Velasco quoted a letter from James M Stowell, president of\nMoody Bible Institute:\n\n\n\nThere has been a lot of discussion, but so far nobody seems to have hit on\nexactly what the criticism of \"arrogance\" is aimed at.\n\nThe arrogance being attacked is that we \"think we are the only ones who know\nwhat the absolutes are\". In short, many evangelicals claim that they are\ninfallible on the matter of religious texts.\n\nIn particular, the problem is one of epistemology. As a shorthand, you can\nthink of epistemology as \"how do you know?\" That question, it turns out, is\na very troubling one.\n\nThe problem with `absolute certainty' is that, at the bottom, at least some of\nthe thinking goes on inside your own head. Unless you can be certain that\neverything which happens in your head is infallible, the reasoning you did to\ndiscover a source of truth is in question.\n\nAnd that means you do NOT have absolute justification for your source of\nauthority -- which means you do NOT have absolute certainty.\n\n\nLet's take the specific example of Biblical Inerrancy, and a fictional\nInerrantist named Zeke. (The following arguments applies to the idea of\nPapal Infallibility, too.)\n\nZeke has, we presume, spent some time studying the Bible, and history, and\nseveral other topics. He has concluded, based on all these studies (and\npossibly some religious experiences) that the Bible is a source of Absolute\nTruth.\n\nHe may be correct; but even if he is, he cannot be certain that he is correct.\nHis conclusion depends on how well he studied history -- he may have made\nmistakes, and the references he used may have contained mistakes. His\nconclusion depends on how well he studied the Bible -- he may have made\nmistakes. His conclusion depends on his own reasoning -- and he may have made\nmistakes. (Noticing a common thread yet? 8-)\n\nEverything about his study of the world that he did -- everything that\nhappened in his own head -- is limited by his own thinking. No matter what\nhe does to try and cover his mistakes, he can never be certain of his own\ninfallibility. As long as ANY PART of the belief is based on his own\nreasoning, that belief cannot be considered \"absolutely certain\".\n\nZeke believes that he has found a source of absolute truth -- but that belief\nis only as good as the quality of the search he made for it. Unless he can\nsay that his own reasoning is flawless, his conclusions are in doubt.\n\nAny belief that you hold about absolute sources of truth depends in part on\nyour own thinking -- there is no way out of the loop. Only an infallible\nthinker can have absolute certainty in all his beliefs.\n\n\nThis is easy to demonstrate. Let's go back to our shorthand method of doing\nepistemology: \"how do you know?\" Imagine a hypothetical discussion:\n\n A: The Bible is a source of absolute truth.\n\n B: How do you know?\n\n A: I studied history and the Bible and religious writings and church\n teachings and came to this conclusion.\n\n B: How do you know you studied history correctly?\n\n A: Well, I double-checked everything.\n\n B: How do you know you double-checked correctly?\n\n A: Well, I compared my answers with some smart people and we agreed.\n\n B: Just because some smart guy believes something that doesn't mean it is\n true. How do you know THEY studied it correctly?\n\n A: ...\n\nAnd, as you see, B will eventually get A to the point where he has to say \"I\ncan't prove that there are no mistakes\" -- and as long as you may have made a\nmistake, then you cannot be ABSOLUTELY certain.\n\nThere is no way out of the loop.\n\n\nThis is where the \"arrogance of Christians\" arises: many people believe\nthat their own personal research can give them absolute certainty about the\ndoctrines of Christianity -- they are implicitly claiming that they are\ninfallible, and that there is no possibility of mistake.\n\nClaiming that you CANNOT have made a mistake, and that your thinking has led\nyou to a flawless conclusion, is pretty arrogant.\n\n *\n\nPeople who want to see this argument explained in great detail should try to\nfind _The Infallibility of the Church_, by George Salmon. He is attacking\nthe idea that the Pope can be knowably infallible (and he does so very well),\nbut the general argument applies equally well to the idea that the Bible is\nknowably Inerrant.\n", "The two historic facts that I think the most important are these:\n\n(1) If Jesus didn't rise from the dead, then he must have done something\nelse equally impressive, in order to create the observed amount of impact.\n\n(2) Nobody ever displayed the dead body of Jesus, even though both the\nJewish and the Roman authorities would have gained a lot by doing so\n(it would have discredited the Christians).\n", "\nIf what was being discussed could be established or disproven by \nexperiment and observation, then I would agree with you, Chris. \nThe burden of proof would belong to Bill. But the source\ndocument for Christianity, the Bible, simply assumes God exists\nand makes it clear (to us Calvinists, anyway :-)) that when a person\nis in fellowship with God, it is because God has taken the initiative\nin revealing Himself to that person. So from a Christian point of\nview, the burden of proof belongs to God. Bill is being consistent\nwith what the Bible teaches in relating his own experience with God,\nbut it would be an error on his part to assume that there is a direct,\ncausal relationship between his testimony and someone else becoming\nconvinced that God exists and that he needs to be reconciled to God.\n\n\nPlease excuse me if I missed an earlier part of this thread\nin which Bill came across like an egotist. What I saw was simply\nobedience to the scriptural command to \"always be ready\nto give a reason for the joy that is in you\". ", "\n\nDid this happen to Jesus? I don't think so, not from what I heard. He lived\nONE DAY of suffering and died. If the wages of sin is the above paragraph, then\nJESUS DIDN'T PAY FOR OUR SINS, DID HE?\n\nI'd be surprised to see the moderator let this one through, but I seriously\nwant a reasonable explanation for this.", "\nYes, I do agree with your definition. My use of the term \"always\" is\nrather deceptive, I admit. \n \n\nHold it. I said that all of scripture is true. However, discerning\nexactly what Jesus, Paul and company were trying to say is not always so\neasy. I don't believe that Paul was trying to say that all women should\nbehave that way. Rather, he was trying to say that under the circumstances\nat the time, the women he was speaking to would best avoid volubility and\ncover their heads. This has to do with maintaining a proper witness toward\nothers. Remember that any number of relativistic statements can be derived\nfrom absolutes. For instance, it is absolutely right for Christians to\nstrive for peace. However, this does not rule out trying to maintain world\npeace by resorting to violence on occasion. (Yes, my opinion.)\n \n\nSure. The Bible preaches absolute truths. However, exactly what those\ntruths are is sometimes a matter of confusion. As I said, the Bible does\npreach absolute truths. Sometimes those fundamental principles are crystal\nclear (at least to evangelicals). Sometimes they are not so clear to\neveryone (e.g. should baptism be by full immersion or not, etc). That is\nlargely because sometimes, it is not explicitly spelled out whether the writers\nare speaking to a particular culture or to Christianity as a whole. This is \nwhere scholarship and the study of Biblical contexts comes in. \n \n\nGod revealed his Truths to the world, through His Word. It is utterly \nunavoidable, however, that some people whill come up with alternate \ninterpretations. Practically anything can be misinterpreted, especially\nwhen it comes to matters of right and wrong. Care to deny that?\n\n", "There has been some talk recently of Latin rites from the early Church used to\nbless same-sex unions.If anyone has any idea where copies of these rites\nexist (in whole or in part), please notify me by e-mail. (I understand that\nsimilar ceremonies written in Slavonic exist as well. Let me know where I can\nfind these.) It doesn't matter whether the Latin rite is in the original or a\ntranslation. However, I would prefer to have an English version of the Slavon-\nic rite, if it exists. Thanks in advance.\n\nDoug Hayes @ PSU", "Ezek 22:26 God seems to be upset with the priests who have made no\ndifference between the holy and the profane. This brought to my mind a\nsermon I heard recently in which the speaker said \"God's second name does\nnot begin with a D\" referring, I believe, to use of God's holy name and\ntitles as swear words. I was also reminded of the experience of Moses at\nthe burning bush when God told him \"Take off your sandals, for the place\nwhere you are standing is holy ground.\"\n\nThese and other texts seem to imply that God's people must treat holy\nthings differently from other \"common\" things, or \"make a difference\"\nbetween holy and common things.\n\nThe obvious questions are \n\nWhat makes something holy? and How are Christians (primarily) supposed to\nmake this difference between holy and common things? (e.g. God's name,\nthe Holy Spirit, the Holy Bible, etc.)", "\n\nFor the last time, Bobby. Lack of belief in YOUR god does NOT imply\natheism. Just because some moslems aren't moral does not mean they don't\nbelieve in a god named Allah, although their Allah may not do the things\nyour Allah does. If a moslem says he/she believes that a god exists, he/she\nis a theist (though maybe not a TRUE follower of islam).\n\n\n\nJerk.\n", ": In article <11838@vice.ICO.TEK.COM>, bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert\n: > Someone spank me if I'm wrong, but didn't Lord, Liar, or Lunatic\n: > originate with C.S. Lewis? Who's this Campollo fellow anyway?\n\n: I do think so, and isn't there a clear connection with the \"I do\n: believe, because it is absurd\" notion by one of the original\n: Christians (Origen?).\n\nThere is a similar statement attributed to Anselm, \"I believe so that\nI may understand\". In both cases reason is somewhat less exalted than\nanyone posting here could accept, which means that neither statement\ncan be properly analysed in this venue.", "\n\n This is one of my favorite fallacious points against atheism, i.e. the \n belief that you can't deny anything that you can't prove doesn't exist.\n This is easily nailed by showing that an infinite number of beings are\n conceivable but not observed to exist, does this mean that we would have\n to believe in all of them? According to the above poster, we must believe\n in objects or beings that haven't been proved not to exist so why stop at\n God? (there could be a huge number of beings identical to Ronald Reagan\n except for trivial differences, say one is missing a finger, one has blond\n hair,... and they all live on other planets so we can't see them) The \n reason no one but atheists bring this up is that none of these christians\n have a vested interest in these unknown beings with the exception of God.\n\n\n How did they shoot themselves in the foot?\n\n\n There is a big difference here, Stalin didn't say that he stood for a \n particular moral position (i.e. against murder and terrorism, etc.) and\n then did the opposite (like the religious movements), he was at least\n an honest killer. (This is NOT a support of Stalin but an attack on this\n viewpoint). Saying that atheism supports murder and violence just because\n one man was a tyrant and an atheist is just bad logic, look at all the\n russians that helped Stalin that weren't atheists - don't they contradict\n your point? Besides your point assumes that his atheism was relevant\n to his murdering people, this is just the common assumption that atheists\n can't value life as much as theists (which you didn't support). \n\n\n Ah, and here's another point you didn't get out of the FAQ. An atheist\n doesn't have to hold the positive view that god doesn't exist, he/she may\n just have the non-existence of the positive belief. Here's the example:\n \n Strong atheism - \"I believe god does not exist\" a positive belief\n\n Weak atheism - \"I don't believe in a god\" a negative belief\n \n these are NOT the same, some one that has never thought of the idea of\n god in their whole life is technically an atheist, but not the kind that\n you are calling unreasonable. Or let's look at it this way (in sets)\n \n suppose that a given person has a huge set of ideas that I will represent\n as capital letters and these people then either believe that these ideas\n exist as real objects or not. So if S = santa, then E(S)= no is the person\n not believing in santa but still having the idea of santa. But notice that\n even E(S) = no is itself another idea! This means you have lots of cases:\n \n christian : (A,E(A)=yes,B,E(B)=no, . . . G,E(G)=yes......) where G = god\n \n atheist (strong) : (A,E(A). . . . .G,E(G)=no)\n \n atheist (weak) : (A,.....E) i.e. no G at all in the set\n \n agnostic : (A,.......G, E(G) = indeterminate, E', ....) \n\n\n\n Nietzsche once said that a man would rather will nonexistence than not\n will at all but the darwinist way to put this is that humanity always \n prefers no or yes to a maybe because indecision is not a useful survival\n trait, evolution has drilled it in us to take positions, even false ones.\n\n", "[In looking through my files this weekend, I ran across some lyrics from\nvarious rock groups that have content. Here are two from Black Sabbath's\n\"Master of Reality\". I'll say this much for the music of the '60's and early\n'70's, at least they asked questions of significance. Jethro Tull is another\nto asked and wrote about things that caused one to wonder. --Rex] \n\nAFTER FOREVER\n\nHave you ever thought about your soul--\n can it be saved?\nOr perhaps you think that when you're dead\n you just stay in you grave.\nIs God just a thought within you read in a book\n when you were at school?\nWhen you think about death \n Do you lose your breath\n Or do you keep your cool?\n\nWould you like to see the Pope on the end of a rope?\nDo you think he's a fool?\nWell I have seen the truth. Yes I have seen the light\n and I've changed my ways.\nAnd I'll be prepared \n When you're lonely and scared\n at the end of your days.\n\nCould it be you're afraid of what your friends might say\nIf they knew you believed in God above?\nThey should realize before they criticise\nThat God is the only way to love. \n\nIs your mind so small that you have to fall\nIn with the pack wherever they run?\nWill you still sneer when death is near\nAnd say they may as well worship the sun?\n\nI think it was true -it was people like you\n that crucified Christ.\nI think it is sad the opinion you had\n was the only one voiced.\nWill you be so sure when your day is near\n to say you don't believe?\nYou had the chance but you turned it down\n now you can't retrieve.\nPerhaps you'll think before you say that God is dead & gone\nOpen your eyes, just realize that He is the one.\nThe only one who can save you now from all this sin and hate.\nOr will you still jeer at all you hear?\nYes! I think it's too late.\n\n\nLORD OF THIS WORLD", "\n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\n[underlining mine/Quean Lutibelle]\n\n\nYes, those who apply it hatefully would be better served if they if\nthey could alter the Bible to reflect their views:\n\nScene 1: A well in Samaria:\n\nWoman: But I have no husband.\nJesus: Yo! Everybody! Listen up! Get your rocks ready! We'll have\n some good biblical fun. Here she is whispering to me that\n she doesn't have a husband, yet I know by my secret powers that\n she has had five of them! (You know how these Samaritans are!\n And worse, she's living with a guy now that she's not even married\n to. Now I believe in loving her, and if you'll just raise up\n those rocks like the bible allows and threaten her with a good\n stoning, she'll understand how much we hate the sin but love\n the sinner. We must keep our priorities strait, lest folks\n 2,000 years from now misunderstand me and believe I canceled\n all sin!\n\nScene 2: Golgatha\n\n2nd Thief: You got a raw deal, man. They didn't catch you doing anything\n wrong like they caught me.\n\nBleeding Jesus: Now, son. Let me be real clear. You say you did something\n wrong, but are you repenting? I need to be absolutely certain\n cause if you repent, I have a nice room for you in heaven,\n but if you think you might go thieving again, I have to\n cancel your reservation. It is nice of you to have pity on\n me while I'm hanging here, but you must understand, this is\n all an act; I'm not really hurting. I'm God, you see. And\n the point of all this is to teach you to be perfect like me.\n If you think a simple kind remark to me in suffering is going\n to get you any favors, you'd better think twice! But if you\n will just REPENT, you will become a Fundelical in Good \n Standing.\n\nFrom all such Bad News, you have delivered us, Good God! Thank you!\nThank you! Thank you!\n\nQuean Lutibelle/Louie\n \n", "As requested, here are some addresses of sources of bizarre religious satire\nand commentary... Plus some bijou book reviewettes.\n\n---\n\nLoompanics Unlimited\nPO Box 1197\nPort Townsend, WA 98368. USA.\n\nPublishers of one of the most infamous mail-order book catalogue in the \nworld. Anarchism, Discordianism, Libertarianism, cryogenics, money-making\n(legal and illegal), privacy and security, self-defense, and all kinds of\nother stuff that keeps Christians awake at nights.\n\n---\n\nThe Church of the SubGenius\nPO Box 140306\nDallas, TX 75214. USA.\n\nThe original end times church for post-human mutants; a high temple for \nscoffers, mockers and blasphemers. Be one of the few to board the X-ist \nsaucers in 1998 and escape Space God JHVH-1's stark fist of removal. J.R.\n\"Bob\" Dobbs, God of Sales, is waiting to take your money and ordain you. \nMagazines, sick audio cassettes, and assorted offensive cynisacreligious \nmaterial. Periodic lists of addresses of Pink religious cults and contact\npoints for the world wierdo network.\n\nExpect a slow response to mail. Only conspiracies are well-organized. You\nwill eventually get what you pay for if you give them some slack.\n\n---\n\nCounter Productions\nPO Box 556\nLondon SE5 0RL\nUK\n\nA UK source of obscure books. A wide-ranging selection; Surrealism, \nAnarchism, SubGenius, Discordianism, Robert Anton Wilson, Lovecraftian \nhorror, Cyberpunk, Forteana, political and social commentary, Wilhelm Reich,\nOrgone tech, obscure rock music, SF, and so on. Send an SAE (and maybe a\nbribe, they need your money) and ask for a catalogue. Tell them mathew sent\nyou. I've ordered from these folks three or four times now, and they're\nabout as fast and efficient as you can expect from this sort of operation.\n\n---\n\nForbidden Planet\nVarious sites in the UK; in particular, along London's New Oxford Street, just \ndown the road from Tottenham Court Road tube station.\n\nMass market oddness. SubGenius, Robert Anton Wilson, Loompanics, and of \ncourse huge quantities of SF. Not a terribly good selection, but they're in\nthe high street.\n\n---\n\nREVIEWETTE: \"Loompanics' Greatest Hits\"\nISBN 1-55950-031-X (Loompanics)\n\nA selection of articles picked from the books in Loompanics' catalogue. \nSubjects include:\n\n * Christian Dispensationalism -- how right-wing Christians encouraged \n the Cold War\n * Satanic Child Abuse myths\n * Religion and censorship\n \nPlus lots of anarchist and libertarian stuff, situationism, computers and \nprivacy, and so on. Guaranteed to contain at least one article that'll \noffend you -- like, for example, the interview with Bradley R. Smith, the \nHolocaust Revisionist. A good sampling of stuff in a coffee table book. (Of\ncourse, whether you want to leave this sort of stuff lying around on your\ncoffee table is another matter.)\n\nQUOTE:\n\n\"The fundamentalists leap up and down in apoplectic rage and joy. Their \nworst fantasies are vindicated, and therefore (or so they like to think), \ntheir entire theology and socio-political agenda is too. Meanwhile, teen-age\nmisanthropes and social misfits murder their enemies, classmates, families,\nfriends, even complete strangers, all because they read one of Anton LaVey's\ncooks or listened to one too many AC/DC records. The born-agains are ready\nto burn again, and not just books this time.\"\n\n---\n\nREVIEWETTE: \"The Book of the SubGenius\", J.R. Dobbs & the SubGenius Foundation\nISBN 0-671-63810-6 (Simon & Schuster)\n\nDescribed by 'Rolling Stone' as \"A sick masterpiece for those who can still\nlaugh at the fact that nothing is funny anymore.\" The official Bible of the\nSubGenius Church, containing the sacred teachings of J.R. \"Bob\" Dobbs. \nInstant answers to everything; causes catalytic brain cell loss in seconds;\nthe secret of total slack; how to relax in the safety of your delusions and\npull the wool over your own eyes; nuclear doom and other things to laugh at.\n\nQUOTE:\n\n\"He has been known to answer questions concerning universal truths with \nscreams. With suggestive silence. By peeing down his pants leg. His most\nfamous sermon was of cosmic simplicity: \"Bob\" standing on the stage with his\nhands in his pockets, smoking, looking around and saying nothing. Heated\narguments still rage among the monks, often erupting into fatal duels, as\ntowhether the Master consulted his wristwatch during this divine period of\nGrace.\"\n\n--\n\nREVIEWETTE: \"High Weirdness by Mail\", Rev. Ivan Stang\nISBN 0-671-64260-X (Simon & Schuster)\n\nAn encyclopedia of wierd organizations you can contact by mail. Space \nJesuses, Christian vs Christian, UFO contactees, New Age saps, Creationists,\nFlat Earthers, White Supremacist churches, plus (yawn) CSICOP, Sceptical\nEnquirer and stuff like that. Not just a list of addresses, though, as each\nkook group is ruthlessly mocked and ridiculed with sarcastic glee. If you\nlike alt.atheism's flame wars, this is the book for you. Made me laugh until\nmy stomach ached. Revised edition due some time in the next year or two.\n\nSAMPLE ENTRY:\n\n Entertaining Demons Unawares\n Southwest Radio Church\n PO Box 1144\n Oklahoma City, OK 73101\n\n \"Your Watchman on the Wall.\" Another flagellating, genuflecting \n fundamentalist outfit. Their booklet \"Entertaining Demons Unawares\"\n exposes the Star Wars / E.T. / Dungeons & Dragons / Saturday morning\n cartoon / Satanic connection in horrifying detail. Left out Smurfs,\n though! I especially liked the bit about Wonder Woman's Antichrist origins.\n Keep in mind that once you send for anything from these people, you'll be\n on their mailing list for life.\n\n---\n\nREVIEWETTE: \"The Abolition of Work\", Bob Black\nISBN 0-915179-41-5 (Loompanics)\n\nA selection of Bob Black's painfully witty and intelligent anarchist tracts\ncollected into book form. If I were this good I'd be insufferable.(*) \nProbably the only thought-provoking political book that's fun to read.\n\nQUOTE:\n\n\"Babble about 'The wages of sin' serves to cover up 'the sin of wages'. We\nwant rights, not rites -- sex, not sects. Only Eros and Eris belong in our\npantheon. Surely the Nazarene necrophile has had his revenge by now. \nRemember, pain is just God's way of hurting you.\"\n\n---\n\nREVIEWETTE: \"Principia Discordia\", Malaclypse the Younger\nISBN 1-55950-040-9 (Loompanics)\n\nThe infamous Discordian Bible, reprinted in its entirety and then some. Yes,\nyou could FTP the online copy, but this one has all the pictures. Explains\nabsolutely everything, including the Law of Fives, how to start a Discordian\nCabal, and instructions for preaching Discordianism to Christians. \n\nQUOTE:\n\n\"A Discordian is Required during his early Illumination to Go Off Alone & \nPartake Joyously of a Hot Dog on a Friday; this Devotive Caremony to \nRemonstrate against the popular Paganisms of the Day: of Catholic Christendom\n(no meat on Friday), of Judaism (no meat of Pork), of Hindic Peoples (no meat\nof Beef), of Buddhists (no meat of animal), and of Discordians (no Hot Dog\nBuns).\"\n\n---\n\nREVIEWETTE: \"Natural Law, or Don't Put a Rubber on Your Willy\",\n Robert Anton Wilson\nISBN 0-915179-61-X (Loompanics)\n\nThe author of the Illuminatus trilogy rails against natural law, natural \nmorality, objective reality, and other pervasive myths. Witty and \nthought-provoking work from someone who actually seems to know an argument\nfrom a hole in the ground.\n\nQUOTE:\n\n\"Since theological propositions are scientifically meaningless, those of us\nof pragmatic disposition simply won't buy such dubious merchandise. [...] \nMaybe -- remotely -- there might be something in such promotions, as there\nmight be something in the talking dogs and the stocks in Arabian tapioca\nmines that W.C. Fields once sold in his comedies, but we suspect that we\nrecognize a con game in operation. At least, we want to hear the dog talk or\nsee the tapioca ore before we buy into such deals.\"\n\n---\n\nAll of the books mentioned above should be available from Counter Productions\nin the UK, or directly from the SubGenius Foundation or Loompanics Unlimited.\n\n\nmathew\n[ (*) What do you mean I am anyway? ]", "\n\n\n\nAs St. Augustine said, \"I did not invent original sin, which the\nCatholic faith holds from ancient time; but you, who deny it, without a\ndoubt are a follower of a new heresy.\" (De nuptiis, lib. 11.c.12)]", "You will keep in perfect peace him whose mind is steadfast, because he trusts\nin you. \nIsaiah 26:3\n", "\nBut what if the geologists are wrong and these people are warning of a\nnon-existent danger? Analogies can only push an argument so far (on both\nsides). Both Melinda's and yours assume the premises used to set up your\nrespective analogies are true and thus the correct conclusion will arise.\n\nThe important point to note is the different directions both sides come from.\nChristians believe they know the TRUTH and thus believe they have the right\n(and duty) to tell the TRUTH to all. \n\nChristians can get offended if others do not believe (what is self-evidently\nto them) the TRUTH. Non-christians do not believe this is the TRUTH and get\noffended at them because they (christians) claim to know the TRUTH.\n\n(BTW this argument goes for anyone, I am not just bagging christians)\n\nNeither side can be really reconciled unless one of the parties changes their\nmind. As Melinda pointed out, there is no point in arguing along these lines\nbecause both approach from a different premise. A more useful line of\ndiscussion is WHY people believe in particular faiths.\n\nPersonally, I don't mind what anyone believes as long as they allow me mine\nand we can all live peacefully.\n\n", "\nFalse dichotomy. You claimed the killing were *not* religiously\nmotivated, and I'm saying that's wrong. I'm not saying that\neach and every killing is religiously motivate, as I spelled out\nin detail.\n\n\n\nDoes anyone else see the contradiction in this paragraph?\n\n\n\nSorry, Frank, but what I put in quotes is your own words from your\nposting <1qi83b$ec4@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>. Don't tell us now that \nit's a different claim. If you can no longer stand behind your \noriginal claim, just say so.", "\n\n\n\n\n\tMy feeling on baptism is this: parents baptize their baby so that the\n\tbaby has the sanctifying grace of baptism (and thus removal of original\n\tsin) on its soul in the event of an unexpected death.\n\t\n\tThat is, the parents speak on behalf of the child which is too young\n\tto speak on its own. This should not surprise anyone: don't parents\n\t*always* do what they believe is the best for their baby? Why would\n\tthat apply to the baby's physical needs only but not his/her spiritual\n\tneeds to have God's grace?\n\t\n\tThe purpose of confirmation is for the baby (now young adult) to \n\tdecide to re-affirm for himself/herself the promises that his/her\n\tparents made at baptism. That is where accepting Jesus into your\n\theart comes in. In baptism, the parents ask Jesus to come into their\n\tbaby's heart; at confirmation the child repeats that request \n\tindependently.", "\n ?Huh? Okay, so I'm not Eric Molas, but even if that _is_ how he\nfeels about life, I disagree with it.\n\n Life, to me, is definitely NOT meaningless; it has precisely the\npurpose and meaning I choose to give it. I go on living because I _like_\nliving; if I needed any further reason, I'd be free - completely free! -\nto pick any reason that suited me. That freedom can be almost\nintoxicating; it's probably the closest I've ever been to a 'religious'\nexperience. I'm *very* glad I am an atheist; I wouldn't be anything\nelse.\n\n\n Not unless, in explaining your own subjective experience, you also\ntry to convert him or proselytize. Merely explaining the effects you\npersonally experience religion as having on you, is not \"infectious\".\nNot unless Eric is paranoid, that is. ;->\n\n\n Whatever floats your goat. You sound happy enough; that's fairly\nmuch all that matters, right?\n\n\n Erh... Pardon, but it strikes me that sentence sounds reversible.\n\n\n \"Empty spot\"? \"God-shaped hole\"? I hear such things a lot from\ntheists; never quite did understand what they were talking about.\nI have no such 'emptiness' or 'hole'. Maybe some others do, I wouldn't\nknow; but I don't, and if I did, I'd seek help about it. Doesn't sound\nlike a mentally healthy situation at all, walking around with a 'hole'\nin oneself.\n\n\n Well, not having written that original post, I don't know if it\nwas intended to be interpreted in such a way; but, having reread it\ncarefully, I somewhat doubt it. At least, that's not how he gets across\nto _me_, your mileage may vary...\n", "\nJesus certainly demonstrated the great depth of his love for the\nchildren who died today at the Davidian complex.\n\nSorry, but the events today made me even more negative concering\norganized religion.\n\nCheers,\nKent", "Everywhere we see and hear about christianity (due to its\nevangalistic nature). Witnessing, spreading the gospel, etc.\nBut what I want to know is...\n\n\"Why should I (or anyone else) become a Christian?\"\n\n(In twenty five words or less).\n\n\tZeros and Ones will take us there....\n\tpeace. plastic. 1993.", "\n\n ^^^^^^^^^^\n Josh, were you in such a hurry? WE celebrated Pesach THIS month, but only\n with Xtian blood! Muslim blood hasn't been declared \"Kosher le Pesach\" by\n our Hechscher (not yet) :-) :-)\n\n -----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n Manfredo Tichauer M. EMAIL : tichauer@valpso.hanse.de\n Opitzstrasse 14 VOICE : (++ 49 40) 27.42.27\n 2000 Hamburg 60 - GERMANY FAX : (++ 49 40) 270.53.09", " \n \nNo wonder in the light of that you are a probably a theist who tries\nto pass as an agnostic. I still remember your post about your daughter\nsinging Chrismas Carols and your feelings of it well.", "Seeing as how _The_Two_Babylons_ has been brought up again, it is time for\nme to respond , once again, and say that this book is junk. It is nothing\nmore that an anti-Catholic tract of the sort published ever since the there\nwere protestants. Its scholarship is phony and its assertions spurious.", "But he said,\n\tYea rather,\n\tblessed are they\n\tthat hear the word of God,\n\tand keep it.", "\nDo we attach some meaning of the Israelites entering \"the promised land\" to \nChristianity?\n\n I submit God did not hold the children responsible when the adults chose \nto follow the bad report of the 10 spies over Joshua and Caleb. This is \nrecorded for us in Deuteronomy 1:39 \"Moreover your little ones, which ye said \nshould be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge \nbetween good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give \nit, and they shall possess it.\"\n\n At least to me it seems there was/is an age, or point in maturity where \nthey were/are held responsible, and could not enter the \"Promised Land\", \nyounger ones were not held to the same \"rules\", at least not by God.\n", "Undoubtedly people adopt atheism for many reasons, but I suspect that a biggie\nis that the God they've believed in is (in J.B. Phillips's words) \"too small\". \nIf a person's understanding of God is not allowed to grow and develop, it will\neventually become inadequate. The grey-haired gentleman on a throne who was a\ncomforting image in childhood becomes a joke.\n\nA therapist friend of mine sometimes suggests to her clients that they \"fire\nGod\". What she means by that is letting go of an inadequate understanding of\nGod to make room for a fuller one. But she follows up by encouraging them to\n\"hire a new one\". My guess is that a lot of folks go through the firing\nprocess, but are not adequately supported in the subsequent re-hire.", "\n\nAt the cost of repudiating the FAQ, I think too much is made of the\nstrong vs weak atheism issue, although in the context of alt.atheism,\nwhere we're continually attacked on the basis that strong atheists\n\"believe\" in the non-existence of god, I think the separation is a\nvalid one.\n\nTo cover my arse, what I'm trying to say is that there is an\ninfinitely grey area between weak and strong, as well as between\nstrong and the unattainable mathematical atheism (I wish!). Whereas I\n_logically_ can only support the weak atheist position, in effect I am\na strong atheist (and wish I could be a mathematical one). To\njustify my strong atheist position I believe I need only show that\nthe evidence presented in favour of any of the gods under scrutiny\nis faulty.\n\nIf I read the FAQ correctly, no argument for the existence of god\n(generic, as represented by mainstream theologians) has ever been\nfound to be unassailable. To me this is adequate evidence that the\n_real_god_ is undefinable (or at least no definition has yet been\nfound to be watertight), which in turn I accept as sufficient to\nbase a disbelief in each and every conceivable god.\n\nI'm a little fuzzy on the edges, though, so opinions are welcome\n(but perhaps we should change the thread subject).", "Paul Fortmann submitted a sermon by Peter Hammond on PRAYING FOR\nJUSTICE that spoke of the positive value of the Imprecatory\n(Cursing) Psalms.\n\nIn this connection, I recommend to the membership the book\nREFLECTIONS ON THE PSALMS, by C S Lewis, with special reference to\nthe chapter on \"Cursing in the Psalms.\"", "\nSo what's your point? Mark's comment still is valid. To suggest that\nAIDS is \"deserved\" IS ludicrous. I sin. I can resolve to abstain from \nsin, and do weekly (more often, actually). Yet I routinely fail.\nI surely do deserve what I get, yet God compassionately provided \nthe Incarnate Logos, Jesus, as a rememdy and a way out of our situation.\nIf AIDS is deserved, I surely deserve instant death just as much, as do\nwe all, as St. Paul so cogently remids us.\n\nTo willingly judge \"others\" as deserving punishment seems to me\nto be the height of arrogance and lack of humility. \n \n\nSo what's the point here? I can get AIDS and NEVER engage in\n\"deviant\" sexual behavior. In fact, I could engage in LOTS\nof deviant sexual behavior with HIV+ people and never be\ninfected. AIDS is a consequence of particular behaviors,\nmany of which are not sexual. And not all sexual behaviors\ncarry the risk of transmission. \n \n\nThe end of all things is to know, love and serve God, growing\ndaily closer through prayer, meditation and discipline. Even so\nI could get AIDS. Anyone could, unless they remain forever celibate,\nIV-drug-free, and transfusion free.\n\nLarry Overacker (llo@shell.com)\n-- ", "\n[good points on buddhism, etc. deleted]\n\njust because one says christianity -- true christianity -- is hard to\nfollow faithfully does NOT mean that one discounts the validity and\ndifficulty of other religions. i admire those of any religion who are\nwilling to make the kind of sacrifices and dedicate themselves\nspiritually in the way you are talking about. \n\n[more deleted]\n\ndo you think this is what christianity is all about? not all\nchristians believe in this particular story literally. it sounds\nabove like you are supporting a policy of \"to each his own\" -- here is\nanother example of that. if it helps someone's faith to take every\nword of the bible literally, i support and respect that, too.\n\n\nplease don't judge all of christianity by one man. the only man one\ncan truly judge all of christianity by is jesus (makes sense, right?).\n\ni think his point about how we put our lives into little boxes is very\ntrue -- what does your comment about robertson have to do with that?\n\n\n\ni was raised agnostic -- my father was never baptised and was raised\natheist. he is not an atheist because he found a close-mindedness\npresent in the viewpoint of his parents equal to the close-mindedness\nhe found in the viewpoint of the christians he came in contact with.\nthus i was _free_ to choose how to live my life, and he supported the\ndecision i made to join the episcopal church, although he emphasized\nto me that his respect for my beliefs should result in my not\nintruding on his beliefs, ie, i should not try to convert him, as that\nis his decision. (please, no flames or advice on how to convert him!)\none of my good friends is hindi and i greatly respect her\nbeliefs and the culture surrounding her religion. my best friend is\njewish and i have always held a profound resepct for the jewish\nreligion (chaim potok and isaac bashevis singer are two of my favorite\nauthors). i really do not think you can make that kind of\ngeneralization about how christians choose -- and i do mean CHOOSE--\ntheir faith. if they have not consciously accepted the faith in their\nadult lives (which is what confirmation represents), THEN you can talk\nabout their being brainwashed.", "Sorry for taking this off of Sharon's resp, but I'd also like to add\nsome more verses to that and perhaps answer the second Q.\n\nVerses:\n 1 Corinthians 6:9-10\n Colossians 3:5-10\n\nAs for knowing when, that's a bit tricky. People normally have\nconsciences which warn them about it. However, as in my case, a\nconscience can be hardened by sin's deceitfulness (Hebrews 3:12:13) so\nthat the person has no idea (or doesn't care about it) that they are\nsinning. Of course, there are those sins which we do when we don't know\nthat they're sinful to begin with. Those take searching and examining\nof Scripture to find out that they are sinful and then repent and\nchange. The best question to ask in every circumstance to judge sinful\npossibilities is: \"Would Jesus wholeheartedly do this at this point in\ntime?\" I know, it sounds like a cop-out, but it truly is a stifling\nquestion.\n\nJoe Fisher", "Until recently I always understood the term \"kingdom theology\" to mean the \ntheology of the kingdom of God, but now I have discovered that there is a \nnew and more specialized meaning. I gather that it is also called \"Dominion \ntheology\", and that it has to do with a belief that Christians must create a \ntheocratic form of government on earth before Christ will come again.\n\nI have not come across anyone who believes or advocates this, but I am told \nthat it is a very widespread belief in the USA.\n\nCan anyone give me any more information about it?\n\nHere are some of my questions:\n\n1. Is it the teaching of any particular denomination? If so, which?\n2. Where and when does it start?\n3. Are there any particular publications that propagate it?\n4. Are there any organizations that propagate it?", "----- Begin Included Message -----\n\nThe following teaching is brought to you on behalf of Malcolm Smith\nMinistries, a ministry dedicated to leading believers everywhere into a\nknowledge of the love of God. If you would like more info on the ministry,\nand/or would like to comment on whether you found this teaching beneficial,\ne-mail to Randy Hunt at rlhunt@hou.amoco.com.\n\n\nLOVE IN THE MORNING (Psalm 90:14)\n\nby Malcolm Smith\n\nMoses wrote this prayer at a weary time in the history of Israel. A generation\nbefore the time of its writing, the people of Israel had stood at Kadesh,\ngateway to Canaan, and made the fateful choice to go their own way rather\nthan God's way. They refused an adventure of faith in God which would\nhave given them Canaan, the homeland of promise. God honored their\ndecision, and said they would wander in the desert only a few miles from the\nland of promise until they were all buried in the sand. The young decision-\nmakers of that fateful day were between twenty and thirty years old, and\ndestined to be dead within forty years... bleached bones in the desert by the\ntime they were seventy-- eighty, at the most. The lives of these wanderers\nhad been unending sadness. Moses described it as ending each year with a\nsigh (v. 9). The fact that they knew, give or take a few months, when they\nwere going to die, underscored the meaninglessness of their existence.\nWhatever heights of success they reached, they would be a heap of bleached\nbones within forty years. The only ones to live outside of that depression of\nhopeless disbelief were Joshua and Caleb, who had stood against the nation\nat Kadesh and had God' s promise of one day entering the land. The\nforty-year period was finally drawing to an end. The new generation, those\nwho were children at Kadesh, were now grown and eager to take the\ninheritance their parents had refused to enjoy. In the light of this, Moses\nprays...it is time for a new day to begin and the days of misery to be over.\nAll these years, as Moses had walked with these moaning and complaining\npeople through the wilderness of their exile, he had carried a double burden.\nHis was not only the sadness of living in less than what could have been; but\nhe also knew why they had chosen as they had at Kadesh. The problem was\nthat they were ignorant of the character of their God. If asked. \"Who is your\nGod?\" they would have described Him as the God who is Power. When\nAaron had created their concept of God in an idol. he chose a calf. or young\nbull--a symbol of power, of virility. In their minds, God was the young bull\nwho had impaled Pharaoh on his horns and gored Egypt's gods as He led\nIsrael to Sinai. But when man worships a God of power, His miracles grow\nthin and even boring. After miracle food on the desert floor and water\ngushing miraculously from the solid rock through the desert wasteland, the\nGod of Almightiness becomes \"ho-hum --What' s next on the miracle menu?\"\nAnd a God of power can be as unpredictable as a young bull calf. He might\nbe all they need, but then...who knows? If He has all power, He has a right\nto do whatever He wants, whenever He wants. The only person these people\nhad known who had absolute power was Pharaoh, and men's lives had hung\non the whim of his moods, which could change with the wind. They believed\nGod could work His wonders on their behalf, but they did not know HIM\nand, so, could not trust Him. Israel had a God based on what He DID, His\nacts; Moses knew the heart of God, the motivation behind the acts. From the\nday of his encounter at the burning bush, Moses had been fascinated by God.\nAt Sinai, he asked to be shown His glory...to know who He really was. He\nhad seen what God had done; he wanted to know who God was. This\nrequest was granted, and Moses was given a glimpse of God's glorious\nPerson. He had come to know the heart of God as compassion and\nlovingkindness (Exodus 34:6,7). The word \"lovingkindness\" is not to be\nunderstood as a human kind of love. It speaks of the kind of relationship\narising out of the making of a covenant. It can only be understood as the\nlove that says, \"I will never leave you nor forsake you.\" Lovingkindness is as\ntenacious as a British bulldog; when the world walks out, this love digs in its\nheels and refuses to leave.And it is not human romantic love, based on\nfeelings and rooted in emotions. It is a love of covenant commitment and,\ntherefore, operates quite apart from feelings. God's love is not an emotion\nthat wavers day by day; it is the total commitment of His Being to seek our\nhighest and best, and to bring us to our fullest potential as humans. God\ndoes not see something good and beautiful in us which arouses His feelings\nof love toward us...we do not woo Him and cause Him to fall in love with\nus! If that were the case, the first ugly, sinful thing we did would cause Him\nto reject us. He is Love, and He loves us because of who He is-- not\nbecause of who we are. He does not love what we do, but He is committed\nto us, pursuing us down every blind alley and bypath of foolishness. He will\nnot let us go. His is a love that is not looking for what it can get out of us--\nbut a committed love that searches for opportunities to give to us. It is\nsaying to the recipient, \"For as long as we shall live, I am for you.\" The God\nwho has revealed Himself to man through Scripture and, finally, in Jesus--in\nHis coming, and in His death and resurrection--is the God who is\nlovingkindness. Thus He loves us and gives Himself to us...He will never\nleave us nor forsake us. Tragically, many believers have never seen Him as\nlove; they see Him as power. No one will come to faith by just seeing\nmiracles. Miracles point to who He is, and that is when faith springs in the\nheart. Israel did not see God as lovingkindness; they saw His acts of power.\nMoses knew His ways, the kind of God He was, and the love that He had for\nthese people. Because of their total lack of understanding of His love, they\ncould not trust Him to be their strength in taking the land. Faith is born out\nof knowing the love He has for us; it is the resting response to the One who\ngives Himself to us. He is not the force, and to call Him the Almighty is to\nmiss His heart. He is Love who is the Almighty and the Infinite Force. If\nman is to make force or raw power work for him, he must depend on\nknowing the forrnula and have faith in it. But the power that issues from\nlove demands faith in the Person of love Himself. The forty years of\nmeaningless wandering was a monument to a people who had never come to\nknow the God of love. At this point, with the new generation and the\npossibility of enjoying all that God promised, Moses prays verse 14. The\nlanguage Moses uses is reminiscent of a baby having slept secure in its\nmother's love, now waking to look up into the delight of her eyes. It is\nwaking to the consciousness of being loved... watched over, cared for,\nprotected, fed, and cleaned, day and night, by the mother. Suppose we were\nto ask, \"What has the baby done to deserve this?\" or, \"Have arrangements\nbeen made for the child to repay the parents for this inconvenience?\" Our\nquestions would be considered unnatural, even immoral. The child was\nconceived in love, anticipated and prepared for with love's excitement, a love\nthat has been to the gates of death to bring it into being. The parents' love is\nunconditional, spontaneous...it has nothing to do with the looks of the child\nor its performance. So God is love. He loves us unconditionally,\nspontaneously. We were conceived in His imagination and fashioned after\nHis image, to be brought to where we are at this moment by the blood of the\nLord Jesus. It is slanderous, and immoral, to even ask what we must do to\nearn and deserve that love. The child discovers its personhood and identity\nthrough the eyes and touch, through the cuddles, of its parents' love. It is a\nscientific fact that a baby who is not touched and held will probably die or, if\nit survives, will have severe emotional problems. And a person who has been\nheld and loved will still never know the true meaning of life without the\nembrace and knowledge of love from God. Moses prays that the new\ngeneration will learn to wake every morning, resting with total confidence in\nthe love of God. and will receive all His promises and blessings with joy and\ngladness. Significantly, Moses prays that they will be SATISFIED with His\nlove. \"Satisfied.\" in the Hebrew language. is a rich picture word describing\nbeing filled with an abundance of gourmet food. It is also used to describe\nthe earth after the rain has soaked it and all the vegetation has received\nenough water. Moses prays that they will awaken every morning to be\ndrenched in the life-giving love of God. That sense of satisfaction is the\nlifelong quest of every man and woman. When we are satisfied in our\ndeepest selves, many of our emotional--and even our physical--problems\ndisappear. Man seeks that sense of satisfaction which comes from feeling\nthat he is fulfilled as a human being...his hours have meaning, which make\nsense out of the ordinary and mundane. Apart from God, man seeks this\nsatisfaction through intellectual pursuit, through the exciting of the\nemotions, and through the feeding of his body...he will even seek it in\nreligious exercise. But man will always be dissatisfied until he is responding\nto the love of the living God. Only in knowing God's love will the rest of life\nmake sense. As the forty years drew to a close and the land of promise again\nbecame the inheritance to be taken, Moses prayed this psalm. I find it\nfascinating that he should pray and ask God for a daily revelation of His\nlove. Considering the awe with which the people held Moses. one would\nthink he could have lectured them on the subject of lovingkindness and, by\nthe knowledge they gained, they would live in it. But Moses knew\nbetter. God is the only one who can make known to us His love. We won't\nfind it in a religious lecture or a formula which we can learn and use to\nmanipulate Him. Nor is it in a beautiful poem to titillate our emotions and\ngive us God feelings. It is God, himself, the Lover, who must open our eyes\nand satisfy us with His love. This prayer is man, in helplessness, asking God\nto make the love He is real in our hearts. Moses' prayer was partially\nanswered in the next generation and seen in the exploits of faith which\nworked by love in The Book of Judges. But it would not be answered in its\nfullest dimensions until the coming of the Holy Spirit, who pours out the\nlove of God in our hearts (Romans 5:5). In the history of the early Church,\nwe read of the Holy Spirit \"falling upon\" the believers. This is an ancient\nexpression that, in modern English, means to give a bear hug. It is used in\nLuke 15 to describe the father running to the prodigal and \"falling on his\nneck and kissing him.\" The Holy Spirit is God hugging you in your deepest\nself and smothering you with divine kisses at the deepest level of your\nbeing. This is not a one-time experience to be filed in our spiritual resumes.\nMoses prayed that morning by morning we would awaken to the realization\nthat we are loved. The world, and much of our religious training, has taught\nus to perform in order to be accepted. We have spent far too long living in a\nstate of doing in order to find satisfaction for ourselves...to find acceptance\nand love from others, and from God. We now come humbled to receive love\nwe cannot earn...to be still and let Him tell us we are loved: to let the Holy\nSpirit descend into us, pouring out the love of God. We come in stillness to\nthink on and repeat His words of love to our minds. which have been jaded\nwith the doctrine of \"perform to be accepted.\" We begin to realize that He\nloves us as we are, and gives meaning and purpose to all of life. I challenge\neveryone reading this to begin each day, from the moment you open your\neyes, by celebrating the God of love and praying this prayer. You may not\nfeel anything, but SOMETHING ALWAYS HAPPENS. I was X-rayed the\nother day. I did not see or feel anything, but I noted that the technicians kept\nbehind protective walls. They know you cannot be exposed to those rays\nwithout being affected. So it is as we consciously begin our day knowing\nthat we are loved. Such experiential knowledge will produce, according to\nMoses, \"joy and gladness all our days.\" Joy is the result of a life that is\nfunctioning as God intended us to function when He made us. You might say\nthat joy is the hum of an engine that is at peak performance. Man' s highest\nperformance is to rest in the love God has for him... the hum will be joy, and\nthe result will be endless creativity arising from the sense of meaning he now\nhas in life. Stop wandering in the wilderness. Be satisfied with His love and,\nin joy, day by day, receive all His promised blessings.\n", " ^^^^^^^^^\n1 Cor 11:31-32 \"But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment. \nWhen we are judged by the ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ Lord, we are being discipled so\nthat we will not be condemned with the world.\"\n\n1 Cor 5:3 \"Even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit.\nAnd I have already passed judgment on the one who did this, just as if I were\npresent.\" ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^\n\n1 Cor 2:15-16 \"The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he\nhimself is not ^^^^^^^^^ subject to any man's ^^^ judgement: 'For\nwho has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?' But we have the\nmind of Christ.\"\n\nJude :14-15 \"Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: 'See,\nthe Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge\neveryone, and to ^^^^ convict all the ungodly of ^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^ ^^^^^ all\nthe ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words\nungodly sinners have spoken against him.'\"\n\nArrogance is a sin. Although a desire to show others of one's rightness may\nbe a sign of arrogance in some cases, it may be only a sign that they are\nfollowing the Bible in others:\n\nJude :22-23 \"Be merciful to those who doubt; snatch others from the fire and\nsave them; to others show mercy, mixed with ^^^^^^ fear -- hating ^^^^ even\n^^^^ the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.\"\n\n\n\nI hope you don't find me arrogant, then. This sounds like a bad practice --\nignoring what certain people say because you perceive them as arrogant.\n\nJames 1:19 \"My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to\nlisten, slow to speak and slow to become angry,\"", "\n\nBrian K., guess what? You missed the point. On a scale from cold to\nhot, you are at 0 degrees Kelvin.\n\n\nThen as you understand it, what is it?\n\n\nYes. I agree with that. But what does that have to do with Jesus?\nPunishment you say? Jesus did not regard his death as punishment. \n\n\nGood. I wouldn't either--not the way you understand it. \n\n\nAsk Jesus himself. He himself said why in John 12:23-32. It\nisn't a mystery to anyone and there certainly is no need for\na persuasive argument. Read Jesus's own reply to your\nquestion.\n\nJesus gives more reasons in John 16:7. But one obvious reason\nwhy Jesus died, (and as with everything else, it has nothing do with\nhis punishment) was that he could rise to life again--so that\nwe would \"stop doubting and believe\" (John 21:27). The fact\nthat Jesus rose from the dead is my hope that I too will rise\nfrom the dead. It is an obvious point. Do not overlook it.\nWithout this obvious point, I would have no hope\nand my faith would be vanity.\n\nWhy did Jesus suffer in his death? Again, ask Jesus. Jesus\nsays why in John 15:18-25. That's no mystery either. \"The\nworld hates him without reason.\" It is a direct proclamation\nof how far we humans botch things up and thus, how much we\nneed a Saviour.", "\n\nra> Robert, you keep making references to \"orthodox\" belief, and saying\nra> things like \"it is held that...\" (cf. \"Kermit\" thread). On what\nra> exact body of theology are you drawing for what you call \"orthodox?\"\n\n \"Orthodox\" is a compound word. It comes from 'orthos' (straight, true, \n right) and from 'doxa' (opinion, doctrine, teaching). I use orthodox to \n refer to 'right teaching.' Right teaching is derived from letting God \n speak to us through the Bible. This can be from reading simple truths \n in the Scriptures and by using the Bible to interpret the Bible.\n\nra> Who is that \"holds that\" Luke meant what you said he meant?\n\n I think that it is apparent from reading the Scriptures that are\n pertinent.\n\n Luke 23:43 records Christ's promise to the repentant thief who hung on\n an adjacent cross: \"Truly I say to you, today you will be with Me in\n paradise.\" But was it not until later that Christ rose from the dead\n and ascended to heaven? If Christ Himself was not in heaven until\n Sunday, how could the repentant thief have been there with Him? The\n answer lies in the location of \"paradise\" when Jesus died.\n\n Apparently paradise was not exalted to heaven until Easter Day.\n\n Jesus refers to it in the middle of the story of the rich man and \n Lazarus as \"Abraham's Bosom,\" to which the godly beggar Lazarus was\n carried by the angels after his decease (Luke 16:19-31). Thus\n \"Abraham's Bosom\" referred to the place where the souls of the redeemed\n waited till the day of Christ's Resurrection.\n\n It was not yet lifted to heaven but it may well have been a section of \n hades (Hebrew: Sheol), reserved for believers who had died in the faith\n but would not be admitted into the glorious presence of God in heaven\n until the price of redemption had actually been paid on Calvary; or\n even that none would precede the presence of Jesus back to glory with\n the Father.\n\n Doubtless it was the infernal paradise that the souls of Jesus and the\n repentant thief repaired after they each died on Friday afternoon. But\n on Sunday, after the risen Christ had first appeared to Mary Magdalene\n (John 20:17) and her two companions (Matthew 28:9), presumably He then\n took up with Him to glory all the inhabitants of infernal paradise\n (including Abraham, Lazarus, and the repentant thief). We read in\n Ephesians 4:8 concerning Christ: \"Ascending on high, He led captivity\n captive; He gave gifts unto men.\" Verse 9 continues: \"But what does `He\n ascended' mean but that He also descended to the lowest parts of the\n earth?\" -i.e., to hades. Verse 10 adds: \"He who descended is the same\n as He who ascended above all the heavens.\" Presumably He led the whole\n band of liberated captives from hades (i.e., the whole population of\n preresurrection paradise) up to the glory of heaven.\n\nra> Whenever your personal interpretation of Biblical passages is\nra> challenged, your only response seems to be that one needs merely to\nra> \"look at the Bible\" in order to see the truth, but what of those who\nra> see Biblical things differently from you?\n\n I think that this characterization is faulty. Whenever my 'personal \n interpretation' is questioned, I usually give a reason.\n\n As for those that see things differently, please, put forward where\n there is a valid difference, and we can discuss it. \n\n I seem to be seeing from you the notion that any difference in how one \n views the Bible is somehow legitimate, except, or course, for the stuff \n that I glean from it. Put forward a contrary view and perhaps we can \n have a discussion on that topic. But to decry something that I put \n forward, without putting forward something else to discuss, and to \n dismiss what I put forward while giving credence to other alleged views\n that have yet to be put forward is simply being contentious.\n\nra> Are we to simply assume that you are the only one who really\nra> understands it?\n\n If you believe that something that I have drawn from Scripture is \n wrong, then please, show me from Scripture where it is wrong. Simply \n stating that there are other views is not a proof. Show it to me from \n Scripture and then we can go on.\n", "\nMy wifes uncle was a 30+ level mason. He let me look at some of the books\n(which after his death his \"brothers\" came over and took from his greiving\nwidow before his body had even cooled). Don't tell me you don't worship\nOsiris. You must not be past your 20th level. You should read Wilkinson's\nEgyptians and how he shows this Egyptian religion paralleling his own British\nMasonry. There is a man here at this laboratory who is a 33 degree black\nmason. I've talked with him, though much he likes to hide (\"mystery\"). \nSpecial handshakes and all. When he first started trying to \"evangelize\" me,\nhe told me all kinds on special this, and special that. Here is truely a\n\"mystery\" religion. THere is the public side with motorcyle mania and\nchildrens hospitals and then there is the priviate side that only the highest\ndegree mason every learns of.\nI haven't read it, but the literature that is offered by the silver haired\napologist (can't remember his name) on TV, didn't exactly come to this same\nconclusion. \n\n\"Khons, the son of the great goddess-mother, seems to have been gernaerally\nrepresented as a full-grown god. The Babylonian divinity was also represented\nvery frequently in Egupt in the very same wayas in the land of his nativity\n-i.e. as a child in his mother's arems. THis was the way in which Osiris, 'the\nson, the husband of his mother,' was often exhibited, and what we learn of this\ngod, equally as in the case of Khonso, shows that in his original he was none\nother than Nimrod. It is admitted that the secret system of Free Masonry was\noriginally founded on the Mysteries of the Egyptian Isis, the goddess-mother,\nor wife of Osiris. But what could have led to the union of a Masonic body with\nthese Mysteries, had they not had particular reference to architecture, and had\nthe god who was worshipped in them not been celebrated for his success in\nperfecting the arts of fortification and building? Now, if such were the case,\nconsidering the relation in which, as we have already seen, Egypt stood to\nBabylon, who would naturally be liiked up to there as the great patron of the\nMasonic art? The strong presumption is, that Nimrod must have been the man. \nHe was the first that gained faim in this way. As the child of the Babylonian\ngoddess-mother, he was worshipped in the character of Ala mahozim, 'The God of\nFortification.' Osiris, the child of the Egyptian Modonna, was equally\ncelebrated as 'the strong chief of the buildings.' THis strong chief of the\nbuildings was origninally worshipped in Egypt with every physicall\ncharacteristic of Nimrod. I have already noticed the fact that Nimrod, as the\nson of Cush, was a negro. Now, there was a tradition in Egypt, recorded by\nPlutarch, that 'Osiris was black'.......\" Hislop\n\nIt was like a cold slap to my face, when my wifes uncle brought out his\ncerimonial dress and it was leopard skin. I mean real leopard skin. He told\nme that only the highest of degrees wore the leopard skin. (The reason that he\nstarted telling me all this was that he had just been given a couple of months\nto live and my wife had led him to a saving faith in Christ and he immediately\nrepented from 'mysteries' of the lodge!)\n\nNimr-rod from Nimr, a \"leopard,\" and rada or rad \"To subdue.\" It is a\nuniversal principle in all idolatries, that the high priest wears the insignia\nof the god he serves. Any representation of Osiris usually show the wearing of\nsome leopard. It is interesting that the Druids of Britian also show, or\nshould I say hide, this representation. They, however, worshipped the \"spotted\ncow\".\n\nI'll stand by my statements. Masonry is of the \"mystery\" religions that all\nfind their source in Babylon, the great harlot. Sorry Peter, I do not mean to\nbe a \"cold slap to the face\" but there is to much evidence to the contrary that\nMasonry doesn't find its origins in Egypt. Of the Masons I have personally\ntalked to, all refered to Egypt as their origin. Why are you now separating\nyourself from this which not many years ago, was freely admitted?", " \n(Deletion)\n \nSince this drivel is also crossposted to alt.atheism, how about reading\nthe alt.atheism FAQ? The Josephus quote is concidered to be a fake even\nby Christian historians, and the four gospels contradict each other in\nimportant points.", "\n\nThis meaningless statement makes YOU look bad.\n\n", "BR> From: wpr@atlanta.dg.com (Bill Rawlins)\nBR> Newsgroups: alt.atheism\nBR> Organization: DGSID, Atlanta, GA\n\nBR> Since you have referred to the Messiah, I assume you\nBR> are referring to the New Testament. Please detail\nBR> your complaints or e-mail if you don't want to post.\nBR> First-century Greek is well-known and \nBR> well-understood. Have you considered Josephus, the Jewish\nBR> Historian, who also wrote of Jesus? In addition,\nBR> the four gospel accounts\t\t are very much in harmony.\n\nIt is also well known that the comments in Josephus relating to Jesus were\ninserted (badly) by later editors. As for the four gospels being in harmony\non the issue of Jesus... You know not of what you speak. Here are a few\ncontradictions starting with the trial and continuing through the assension.\n\n\nActs 1:18: \"Now this man (Judas) purchased a field with the reward of \niniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his \nbowels gushed out.\"\n\nMatt. 27:5-7: \"And he (Judas) cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, \nand departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests...bought \nwith them the potter's field.\"\n\n\nBefore the cock crow - Matthew 26:34\n\nBefore the cock crow twice - Mark 14:30\n\n\nMAR 14:72 And the second time the cock crew. And Peter called to mind the \nword that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny\nme thrice. And when he thought thereon, he wept.\n\nMAT 26:74 Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man.\nAnd immediately the cock crew.\nMAT 26:75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him,\nBefore the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept\nbitterly.\n\nLUK 22:60 And Peter said, Man, I know not what thou sayest. And immediately,\nwhile he yet spake, the cock crew.\nLUK 22:61 And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter remembered\nthe word of the Lord, how he had said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou\nshalt deny me thrice.\n\nJOH 13:38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? \nVerily,\n verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, still thou hast denied me\nthrice.\n\nJOH 18:27 Peter then denied again: and immediately the cock crew.\n\n\n(This is interesting because Matthew quotes a prophesy that was never made! \nNot the only time he does this either...)\n\nMAT 27:9 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, \nsaying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was\nvalued, whom they of the children of Israel did value;\n\nzechariah 11:11-13\n(nothing in Jeremiah remotely like)\n\nWhat was the color of the robe placed on Jesus during his trial?\n\nscarlet - Matthew 27:28\n\npurple John 19:2\n\n\nMark says the third hour, or 9 a.m., but John says the sixth hour (noon) was\nwhen the sentence was passed.\n\n\nMatthew -- This is Jesus the king of the Jews\nMark\t -- The King of the Jews\nLuke\t -- This is the king of the Jews\nJohn\t -- Jesus of Nazareth the king of the Jews\n\n\nvinegar - Matthew 27:34\n\nwine with myrrh - Mark 15:23\n\n\nMatthew said many stood far off, including Mary Magdaline, Mary the mother of\nJames, and the mother of Zebedee's children. Mark and Luke speak of many far\noff, and Mark includes Mary Magdeline and Mary the mother of James the less.\nJohn says that Jesus's mother stood at the cross, along with her sister and\nMary Magdalene.\n\n\nMatt.27:46,50: \"And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, \nsaying, \"Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?\" that is to say, \"My God, my God, why\nhast thou forsaken me?\" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice,\nyielded u the ghost.\"\n\nLuke23:46: \"And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, \"Father, unto\n thy hands I commend my spirit:\" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.\"\n\nJohn19:30: \"When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, \"It is \nfinished:\" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.\"\n\n\nMatthew says that the veil of the temple was rent, that there was an\nearthquake, and that it was dark from the sixth to the ninth hour, that graves\nopened and bodies of the saints arose and went into Jeruselem, appearing to\nmany (beating Jesus to the resurection). Mark and Luke speak of darkness and\nthe veil of the temple being rent but mention no earthquake or risen saints. \nJohn is the only one who mentions Jesus's side being peirced.\n\n\nMatthew says the Jews asked Pilate for a guard to prevent the body from being\nstolen by the disciples, and for the tomb to be sealed. All of this was\nsupposedly done, but the other gospels do not mention these precautions.\n\nDepends where you look; Matthew 12:40 gives Jesus prophesying that he will\nspend \"three days and three nights in the heart of the earth\", and Mark 10:34\nhas \"after three days (meta treis emeras) he will rise again\". As far as I can\nsee from a quick look, the prophecies have \"after three days\", but the\npost-resurrection narratives have \"on the third day\".\n\n\nMatthew says Sunday at dawn, Mark says the sun was rising, and John says it\nwas dark.\n\n\nMAT 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first\nday of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.\n\nMAR 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother \nof James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and\nanoint him.\n\nJOH 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it \nwas yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the\nsepulchre.\n\n\nMAT 28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the\nLord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door,\nand sat upon it.\nMAT 28:3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as\nsnow: MAT 28:4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as\ndead men. MAT 28:5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear\nnot ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.\n\nMAR 16:5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on \nthe right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.\n\nLUK 24:4 And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout,\nbehold, two men stood by them in shining garments:\n\nJOH 20:12 And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and \nthe other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.\n\n\nMatthew says the guard was paid to tell this story, but no other gospel makes\nthis claim.\n\n\nMatthew says an angel at the tomb told the two Marys and that Jesus also told\nthem, to tell the disciples to meet him in Galilee. The disciples then went\nto a mountain previously agreed opon, and met Jesus there. This was his only\nappearance, except to the women at the tomb. Matthew only devotes five verses\nto the visit with the disciples.\n\nMark says that Jesus walked with two of the disciples in the country, and that\nthey told the rest of the disciples, who refused to believe. Later he\nappeared to the 11 disciples at mealtime.\n\nLuke says two followers went, the same day that Jesus rose from the dead, to\nEmmaus, a village eight miles from Jeruselem, and there Jesus jioned them but\nwas unrecognised. While they ate a meal together that evening, they finally\nrecognised Jesus, whereopon he dissapeared. Returning at once to Jeruselem,\nthey told the\ndisciples of their experience, and suddenly Jesus appeared among them,\nfrightening them, as they thought he was a spirit. Jesus then ate some fish\nand honey and then preached to them.\n\nJohn says Jesus appeared to the disciples the evening of the day he arrose, in\nJeruselem, where they were hiding. He breathed the Holy Ghost opon them, but\nThomas was not present and refused to believe. Eight days later Jesus joined\nthe disciples again at the same place and this time he convinced Thomas.\tOnce\nmore Jesus made an\nappearance to the disciples at the sea of Tiberias but again was not\nrecognised.\n After telling them to cast their netson the other side of the boat, Jesus\nbecomes known to them and prepares bread and fish for them. They all eat\ntogether and converse.\n\nThe book of acts further adds to the confusion. It says that Jesus showed\nhimself to the apostles for a period of 40 days after his resurection (thus\ncontradicting Matthew, Mark, Luke AND John) and spoke to them of things\npertaining to the kingdom of God: \"And when he had spoken these things, while\nthey beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud recieved him out of their sight. \nAnd while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, two men stood\nby them in white apparel: Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye\ngazing into heaven? This same Jesus, which is taken from you into heaven,\nshall so comein like manneras ye have seen him go into heaven\" Acts 1:3-11\n\nPaul outdoes every other \"authority\" by saying that Jesus was seen by 500\npersons between the time of the resurection and the\nassension, although he does not say where.\tHe also claims that he himself \"as\none born out of due time\" also saw Jesus. 1 Cor 15:6-8.\n\n\nMatthew says nothing about it.\tMark casually says that Jesus was recieved into\nheaven after he was finished talking with the\ndisciples in Jeruselem. Luke says Jesus led the desciples to Bethany and that\nwhile he blessed them, he was parted from them and carried up into heaven. \nJohn says nothing about it. Acts\ncontradicts all of the above. (See previous section)\n\n\nMAT 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all\nthese things be fulfilled.\n\nMAR 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till\nall these things be done.\n\nLUK 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till\nall be fulfilled.\n\n1 thessalonians 4:15-18\n\n1 Corinthians 15:5 (12)\nMatthew 27:3-5 (minus one from 12)\nActs 1:9-26 (Mathias not elected until after resurrection)\nMAT 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain\nwhere Jesus had appointed them.\n\n\t\"And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.\" (2 Kings 2:11)\n\n\t\"No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, \t...\nthe Son of Man.\" (John 3:13)\n\nAs you can see, there are a number of contradictions in the account of the\ntrial, crucifiction and resurection of Jesus. If these are good witnesses,\nyou would think that they could get SOME of these important details right! \n(In fact, I cannot find very many points on where they AGREE. You would think\nthat they could at least agree on some of the points they were supposedly\nobserving!) Because of the fact that there is so much contradiction and error,\nthe story of the resurection as presented cannot be taken as literal truth.\n(Due to the nature of the story, I doubt if it should be taken as ANY sort of\ntruth.)", "\nThat's right. Everyone. Even infants who cannot speak as yet. Even\na little child will rebelliously stick his finger in a light socket.\nEven a little child will not want his diaper changed. Even a little\nchild will fight nap-time.\n\nSo far as Jesus saying \"everyone\": \n\n A certain ruler asked Jesus, \"Good teacher, what must I do to\n inherit eternal life?\"\n\n \"Why do you call me good?\" Jesus answered. \"No one is good--\n except God alone.\"\n\nKen, the book of Romans states that we are born sinners. We do\nnot grow into being a sinner. We sin because we are sinners. The\ncommon mistake, even in Christian circles, is to think the reverse\ntrue. So for as surely as you grew to look like you parents,\nyou not only inherited their appearance, but also their sin nature.\nIt goes with being human.", "\n\nOne can feel physical pain by having a body, which, if you know the\ndoctrine of the resurrection of the body, is what people will have after\nthe great judgement. \"We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the\nlife of the world to come.\" - Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed. You\nwill have both body and soul in hell - eventually.", "\n > If you know the Latin, one really beautiful way to hear the\n > Passion is its being chanted by three deacons: the Narrator\n > chants in the middle baritone range, Jesus chants in the bass,\n > and others directly quoted are handled by a high tenor.\n\nThis is done in English (same music as the traditional Latin) in\nmany Anglican parishes. I should expect that many RCC parishes would\ndo likewise. The ST MATTHEW PASSION and ST JOHN PASSION of J S Bach\nare direct offshoots of this tradition", "\n\nAnd yet, Jayne, as we read the Gospels and in particular the topics that Jesus\nhimself spoke on, Hell figures in a large % of the time -certainly more than\nheaven itself. Paul, as we learn in I Thess, taught new believers and new\nchurches eschatology and did not hesitate to teach hell and damnation. Rev,\nchapter 20:11-15 is very specific and cannot be allegorized. I think the word\n\"throne\" is used 45 times in Rev and that the unbelieving come to receive the\nassignment of the severity of judgement, for in John 3 we read that they are\nalready judged. Rom 3 speaks that every mouth will be shut. There is no\nrecourse, excuse or defense.\n\nYes I agree with you. Life is often like a pendulum where it swings to\nextremes before stopping at \"moderation.\" I think we have seen the extreme of\nthe \"hell fire & brimstone\" preacher, but also we have seen the other extreme\nwhere hell not talked about at all for fear of offending someones\nsensibilities.\n\nI forget who founded the Word of Life Ministries, but I remember him telling a\nstory. He was in a small town hardware store and some how a man got to the\npoint of telling him that he didn't believe in Satan or hell. He believed\neverybody was going to heaven. It was at this point that the man was asked to\npray to God that He would send his children to hell! Of course the man\nwouldn't do it. But the point was made. Many people say they don't believe in\nhell but they are not willing to really place their faith in that it doesn't\nexist. If this man had, he would of prayed the prayer because hell didn't\nexist and there would have been no fear in having his prayer answered. And\nyet, they walk as if they believe they will never be sent there.\n\nI'd use a different illustration however. I have to include myself in it. \nWhen I watch, say a Basketball (go Bulls!) game, and I see a blatant foul that\nisn't called, oi vey!. What's with that ref that he didn't make that call. \nIt's unfair. And just so in life, righteousness demands payment. As the\nsurgeon takes knife in hand to cut the cancer away, so God cuts off that which\nis still of the old creation. We must preach the Gospel in all its richness\nwhich includes the fact that if you reject The Way and The Truth and The Life,\nthen broad is the way to distruction.\n\n\nI think I would fall in there somewhere. Actually it was both. After all,\nrepentance isn't only a turning towards, but also a turning away from!\nNo, again, if Jesus used it in His ministry then I can surely see that we\nshould do it also. In love, of course, but in truth most assuredly. \n\nI have thought about writing something on this topic, but not now and here. I\nwould say that there are some good reasons for its existence and its\neternality.\n\n1) God is Light. Yes He is love, but His love has the boundary of Holiness.\n2) Dignity of Man. Either a man is a robot or he is a responsible creature.\n If responsible, then he is also accountable.\n3) The awfulness of sin. Today we have a poor, poor concept of sin & God.\n4) Christ. He was willing to die and go there Himself to offer an avenue to\n the \"whosoever will.\"", "As I was created in the image of Gaea, therefore I must\nbe the pinnacle of creation, She which Creates, She which\nBirths, She which Continues.\n\nOr, to cut all the religious crap, I'm a woman, thanks.\nAnd it's sexism that started me on the road to atheism.\n\n-- \nMaddi Hausmann madhaus@netcom.com\nCentigram Communications Corp San Jose California 408/428-3553", "The following was published in the May 15th Rocky Mountain News. I\nguess I have some REAL ethical problems with the practices at this\nchurch. I understand that Baptism is an overriding factor. I also\nunderstand that this is not an honest way to proceed. Unfortunately,\nthis is becoming more typical of congregations as the Second Coming is\nperceived to approach.\n\nThere is a real element of disparation in this 'make it happen at any\ncost' style of theology. I wonder where TRUST IN THE LORD fits into\nthis equation?\n\nBaptisms draw parents' ire -- Children at church carnival in Springs\ntold they'd be killed by bee stings if they didn't submit to religious\nrite.\n\nBy Dick Foster -- Rocky Mountain News Southern Bureau\n\nColorado Springs -- Outraged parents say their children were lured to\na church carnival and then baptixed without their permission by a\nBaptist minister.\n\nDoxens of children, some as young as 8 years old and unaccompanied by\ntheir parents, thought they were going to a carnival at the\nCornerstone Baptist Church, where there would be a big water fight,\nfree balloons, squirt guns and candy.\n\nBefore that May 1 carnival was over, however, children were whisked\ninto a room for religious instruction and told they should be\nbaptized. In many cases they consented, although they or their\nfamilies are not of the Baptist faith.\n\nThe baptisms by the church have angered many parents, including\nPaulette Lamontagne, a Methodist and mother of twin 8-year-old girls\nwho were baptized without her knowledge or consent.\n\n'My understnading was they were going to a carnival. I feel that's a\nfalse pretense,' said Lamontagne. Her daughters said the minister\ntold them they would be killed by bee stings if they were not\nbaptized.\n\nCornerstone church officials defended their actions.\n\n'We take our instructions from the word of God and God has commanded\nus to baptize converts. No one can show me one passage in the Bible\nwhere it says that parental permission is required before a child is\nbaptized,' said Dan Irwin, associate pastor of the Cornerstone Baptist\nChurch.\n\nChurch officials did not tell parents their children would be baptized\nbecause 'they didn't ask,' Irwin said.\n\nMany other parents also felt they were simply sending their children\nto a carnival at the invitation of their children's friends who were\nmembers of the Cornerstone Church.\n\nPolice said chhurch officials had broken on laws in baptizing the\nchildren, but indicated the parents could pursue civil action.\n\n-------------------------------------------\nAren't these the same behaviors we condemn\nin the Hari Krishnas and other cults?\n\n[I think the issues are more complex than the newspaper account\nmentions. First, I'm not entirely sure that parental consent is\nabsolutely required. This would be extremely difficult, because of\nthe clear commandment to obey parents. But if an older child insisted\non being baptized without their parents' consent, I might be willing\nto do it. However this would be a serious step, and would warrant\nmuch careful discussion. The problem I find here is not so much\nparental consent as that there was nobody's consent. Whether you\nbelieve in infant baptism or not, baptism is supposed to be the sign\nof entry into a Christian community. If there isn't a commitment from\n*somebody*, whether parent or child, and no intent to become part of\nthe Church, the baptism appears to be a lie. Furthermore, it is\nlikely to raise serious practical problems. What if the child is from\na baptist tradition? Normally when he reaches the age of decision, he\nwould be expected to make a decision and be baptized. But he already\nhas been, by a church claiming to be a Baptist church. So does he get\nrebaptized? Neither answer is really very good. If not, he's being\nrobbed of an experience that should be very significant to his faith.", "\n[...stuff deleted...]\n\nAndy-- I think we do agree, given your clarification of how we were \neach using the terms fact and theory. I'll only add that I\nthink perhaps I feel more strongly about separating them,\nthough your usage is quite valid.\n\n\nI'll add here that any falsification or rejection does not in any way\nreduce its current usefulness. So long as it accurately predicts or \ndescribes things we can observe.\n\nNot to be a pain in the ass, but is there any reason you don't\njust say _the theory of evolution_ rather than the _fact of evolution\nis still a theory_. I'm asking because this whole thread got started\nbecause I was bothered by a post that referred to _the fact of evolution_,\nbasically leaving off the phrase _is still a theory_. Without a \nclarification, like the one you just gave, just saying _the fact of\nevolution_ has a very different meaning to me.\n\nI'm not sure I agree here. Again, it may be because I feel stronger\nabout separating terms. I was trying to say that the _theories_\nproposed to explain the _mechanisms_ and the _mechanisms_ themselves\nare the only realities here. It is the existence of mechanisms, not \nthe things themselves, that are so predictive as to be considered \nfact (as you would say). There aren't really little planetary particle \nsystems called atoms out there. Or I should say, and more to my original \npoint, it would be a leap of faith to say there are, because we observe only \nthe mechanisms. There is no need to _believe_ there are _actually_\natoms out there as we have decided to think about them. It's enough\nto discuss the mechanisms. At any rate, I'm not sure I am being \nany clearer than before, but I thought it was worth a shot.\n\nThe bottom line, though, is I think we agree on two fundamental ideas:\n\n 1. --evolution is a theory supported by observational evidence (my way)\n --the fact of evolution is a theory supported by observational\n evidence (your way)\n\n 2. --creation is just an opinion. If a theist wants to call it\n a theory then he can. I won't: it has no supporting evidence \n\tand it neither predicts nor supports any observations that can\n be made. With no mechanisms to talk about, there really isn't\n\tmuch to say.\n\nDo you agree?\n", "\n\nYes, this is certainly one of the traditional ideas about the Mithraic\ncult (although not the only one.) It had many elements that seem\nto have been borrowed by Catholicism (e.g. the Mass, communion, the\nsharing of a sacred meal, consecration of bread and wine, etc.)\n\nFor quite an amusing novel that uses this same idea, check out:\n\nThe Covenant of the Flame\nby David Morrell.\n\nIt has some quite interesting occult bits, and lots of killing.\nI won't spoil it by revealing the ending, but I will say that it\nis relevant to Mithraism.", "DM> Fact or rumor....? Madalyn Murray O'Hare an atheist who eliminated the\nDM> use of the bible reading and prayer in public schools 15 years ago is now\nDM> going to appear before the FCC with a petition to stop the reading of the\nDM> Gospel on the airways of America. And she is also campaigning to remove\nDM> Christmas programs, songs, etc from the public schools. If it is true\nDM> then mail to Federal Communications Commission 1919 H Street Washington DC\nDM> 20054 expressing your opposition to her request. Reference Petition number\n\nDM> 2493.\n\nFalse. This story has been going around for years. There's not a drop of\ntruth. Note that I don't care for O'Hare (O'Hair?) myself, but this\nis one thing she's not guilty of.\n", "\nI would hardly consider the BD's to be Christian. They were acting in\ndirect contradiction to scripture. Jesus' Second Coming is something\nthat everyone will know of. Jesus also predicted that there will be\nfalse Messiahs who will use His name. His prophecy has been fulfilled.\n\n\nI agree with you there.\n \n\nMe too. I have already given my life to God. If God tells me to lay\ndown my life, it will be to save another life.\n \n\nDo you judge all Christians by the acts of those who would call\nthemselves Christian and yet are not? The BD's contradicted scripture\nin their actions. They were NOT Christian. Simple as that. Perhaps\nyou have read too much into what the media has portrayed. Ask any\ntrue-believing Christian and you will find that they will deny any\nassociation with the BD's. Even the 7th Day Adventists have denied any\nfurther ties with this cult, which was what they were.\n\nDo you judge all Muslims by the acts committed by Saddam Hussein, a \nsupposedly devout Muslim? I don't. Saddam is just a dictator using\nthe religious beliefs of his people to further his own ends.\n\nGod be with you,\n\nMalcolm Lee :)", "= \n= : [ The discussion begins: why does the universe exist at all? ]\n= \n= : One of the Laws of Nature, specifying cause and effect seems to dictate \n= : (at least to this layman's mind) there must be a causal event. No\n= : reasonable alternative exists.\n= \n= I would argue that causality is actually a property of spacetime; \n= causes precede their effects. \n\nAnd I must concede here. Cause *before* effect, implies time, time is part\nof spacetime. Hense, the argument would be valid. I could return and say \nthat this does not infer the cause and effect relationship being *unique*\nto *this* spacetime, but I won't 8^), because the point is moot. Doesn't\naddress why (which Petri Pikho addresses below). \n\nI also concede that I was doubly remiss, as I asserted \"No reasonable\nalternative exists\", an entirely subjective statement on my part (and one\nthat could be invalidated, given time and further discovery by the\nscientist). I also understand that a proving a theory does not necessarily\nspecify that \"this is how it happened\", but proposes a likely description of\nthe phenomena in question. Am I mistaken with this understanding?\n\n= But if you claim that there must be\n= an answer to \"how\" did the universe (our spacetime) emerge from \n= \"nothing\", science has some good candidates for an answer.\n\nAll of which require something we Christians readily admit to: ``Faith''.\n\nThe fact that there are several candidates belies that *none* are conclusive. \nWith out conclusive evidence, we are left with faith.\n\nIt could even be argued that one of these hypotheses may one day be proven (as\nbest as a non-repeatable event can be \"proven\"). But I ask, what holds \nsomeone *today* to the belief that any or all of them are correct, except by \nfaith?\n\n[ a couple of paragraphs deleted. Summary: we ask \"Why does the\nuniverse exist\" ]\n\n= I think this question should actually be split into two parts, namely\n= \n= 1) Why is there existence? Why anything exists?\n= \n= and\n= \n= 2) How did the universe emerge from nothing?\n= \n= It is clear science has nothing to say about the first question. However,\n= is it a meaningful question, after all?\n=\n= I would say it isn't. Consider the following:\n\nApparently it *is* for many persons. Hence, we *have* religions.\n\n= The question \"why anything exists\" can be countered by\n= demanding answer to a question \"why there is nothing in nothingness,\n= or in non-existence\". Actually, both questions turn out to be\n= devoid of meaning. Things that exist do, and things that don't exist\n= don't exist. Tautology at its best.\n\nCarefully examine the original question, and then the \"counter-question\". \nThe first asks \"Why\", while the second is a request for definition. It \ndoesn't address why something does or does not exist, but asks to define \nthe lack of existence. The second question is unanswerable indeed, for\nhow do we identify something as \"nothing\" (aren't they mutually exclusive\nterms)?. How do we identify a state of non-existence (again, this is\nnearing the limits of this simple layman's ability to comprehend, and I\nwould appreciate an explanation). \n\nI might add, the worldview of \"Things that exist do, and things that\ndon't...don't\" is as grounded in the realm of the non-falsifiable,\nas does the theist's belief in God. It is based on the assumption\nthat there is *not* a reason for being, something as ultimately\n(un)supportable as the position of there being a reason. Its very\nfoundation exists in the same soil as that of one who claims there *is* a\nreason.\n\nWe come to this. Either \"I am, therefore I am.\", or \"I am for a reason.\"\nIf the former is a satisfactory answer, then you are done, for you are\nsatisfied, and need not a doctor. If the latter, your search is just\nbeginning. \n\n= I seriously doubt God could have an answer to this question.\n\nTime will tell. 8^)\n\n= \n= Some Christians I have talked to have said that actually, God is\n= Himself the existence. However, I see several problems with this\n= answer. First, it inevitably leads to the conclusion that God is\n= actually _all_ existence, good and evil, devils and angels, us and\n= them. This is pantheism, not Christianity.\n\nAgreed. It would lead me to question their definition of Christianity as\nwell.\n\n= Another answer is that God is the _source_ of all existence.\n= This sounds much better, but I am tempted to ask: Does God\n= Himself exist, then? If God is the source of His own existence,\n= it can only mean that He has, in terms of human time, always\n= existed. But this is not the same as the source of all existence.\n\nThis does not preclude His existence. It only seeks to identify His\n*qualities* (implying He exists to *have* qualities, BTW).\n\n= The best answer I have heard is that human reasoning is incapable\n= of understanding such questions. Being an atheist myself, I do not\n= accept such answers, since I do not have any other methods.\n\nLike the theist, we come to a statement of faith, for this position assumes \nthat the evidence at hand is conclusive. Note, I am not arguing against \nscientific endeavor, for science is useful for understanding the universe in\nwhich we exist. But I differ from the atheist in a matter of perspective. I\nseek to understand what exists to understand and appreciate the art of the\nCreator.\n\nI also have discovered science is an inadequate tool to answer \"why\". It\nappears that M. Pihko agrees (as we shall see). But because a tool is\ninadequate to answer a question does not preclude the question. Asserting\nthat 'why' is an invalid question does not provide an answer. \n\n= : As far as I can tell, the very laws of nature demand a \"why\". That isn't\n= : true of something outside of nature (i.e., *super*natural).\n= \n= This is not true. Science is a collection of models telling us \"how\",\n= not why, something happens. I cannot see any good reason why the \"why\"\n= questions would be bound only to natural things, assuming that the\n= supernatural domain exists. If supernatural beings exist, it is\n= as appropriate to ask why they do so as it is to ask why we exist.\n\nMy apologies. I was using why as \"why did this come to be\". Why did\npre-existence become existence. Why did pre-spacetime become spacetime.\n\nBut we come to the admission that science fails to answer \"Why?\". Because\nit can't be answered in the realm of modern science, does that make the\nquestion invalid?\n= : I don't believe *any*\n= : technology would be able to produce that necessary *spark* of life, despite\n= : having all of the parts available. Just my opinion.\n= \n= This opinion is also called vitalism; namely, that living systems are\n= somehow _fundamentally_ different from inanimate systems. Do Christians\n= in general adopt this position? What would happen when scientists announce\n= they have created primitive life (say, small bacteria) in a lab?\n\nI suppose we would do the same thing as when Galileo or Capernicus was \n*vindicated* (before someone starts jumping up and down screaming\n\"Inquisition!\", note I said *vindicated*. I certainly hope we've gotten\nbeyond the \"shooting the messenger\" stage).\n\nM. Pihko does present a good point though. We may need to ask \"What do I \nas an individual Christian base my faith on?\" Will it be shaken by the\nproduction of evidence that shatters our \"sacred cows\" or will we seek to\nunderstand if a new discovery truly disagrees with what God *said* (and\ncontinues to say) in his Word?\n\n\"Why do I ask why?\" (apologies to Budweiser and company 8^]).\n\nJason.\n\n\n", "Here are some notes about what the church is to be like and some helpful\nideas about how to choose a church:\n\nColossians 1:15-18\n A. Jesus is the head of the body, the church\n B. You cannot say \"yes\" to Jesus, but \"no\" to the church\n\nEphesians 2:19-22\n A. The church is the family of God\n B. The church is based on the Word of God only\n Cornerstone=Christ\n Foundation= Apostles=New Testament\n Prophets=Old Testament (see Revelation 21:9-14)\n\n1 Corinthians 12:12-13\n A. Baptism is when we become a member of the church\n\nAs for the question of denominations:\n A. The Bible teaches that there is only ONE church from Ephesians\n4:4-6, Romans 12:4-5, 1 Corinthians 12:12-13\n B. 1 Corinthians 1:10-13 says that there should be no divisions in\nthe church. There should be no following of personalities in the church\n(and in time, their writings)\n C. There are so many churches today because of a problem. 2 Timothy\n4:1-4 says that people will turn away from the truth and try to find a\nchurch that teaches a doctrine that suits their lifestyle\n\nHebrews 10:24-25\n A. Do not miss church\n B. Purpose is to encourage each other, so we will remain faithful.\nInvolved on a relationship level in the church\n C. Must come to ALL services\n\nAnother verse which is helpful is Hebrews 3:12-15. The church should be\nencouraging daily, as it is their duty to do.\n\nOf course, more standards apply:\n 1 Timothy 4:16 People in the church should be watching their lives\nand doctrines to make sure they both live up to the Word entirely (ie,\ndisciples).\n Acts 17:10-12 The pastor does not come close to the Apostle Paul\n(natural conclusion since the Apostle Paul talked with Jesus directly\nface to face), so if the Bereans, who were considered noble, didn't take\nPaul at his word but checked out what he said with Scripture to verify\nhis statements, then church members are to do the same and verify the\npastor's statements. If they are not verifiable or valid in light of\nother verses, then that group should be avoided as a church (would've\nmade a wonderful suggestion to the Waco group, especially in light of\nMatthew 24).", "\n\t\"And in that day you will ask Me no question. Truly, truly, I say to \n\tyou, if you shall ask the Father for anything, He will give it to you \n\tin my name. Until now you have asked for nothing in My name; ask, and \n\tyou will receive, that your joy may be made full.\"\n\t\t\t\t-John 16:23-24\n\nI don't believe that we necessarily have to say \" . . . In Christ's name. \nAmen,\" for our prayers to be heard, but it glorifies the Son, when we \nacknowledge that our prayer is made possible by Him. I believe that just as \nthose who were saved in the OT, could only be saved because Jesus would one day\nreconcile God to man, He is the only reason their prayers would be heard by \nGod.\n\n\tFor all of us have become like one who is unclean,\n\tAnd all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment;\n\tAnd all of us wither like a leaf,\n\tand our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.\n\t\t\t\t-Isaiah 64:6, NAS\n\nOur prayers like the rest of our deeds are too unholy to go directly to the\nFather because they are tainted by our sin. Only by washing these prayers with\nChrist's blood are they worthy to be lifted to to the Father.\n\n\t\"First, I thank my God through Christ Jesus . . .\"\n\t\t\t\t-Romans 1:8, NAS\n\nSome scholars believe that this is Paul recognizing that even his thanks are \ntoo unholy for the Father.\n\tBasically, prayer is a gift of grace, I believe that only through Jesus\ndo our prayers have any power; thus, praying in His name glorifies and praises \nJesus for this beautiful and powerful gift He has given us.", "********NOTE: FOLLOWUPS go to alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc,talk.origins!\n\n[deleted]\n\nIf you say X statement and give it the authority of fact, I will respond\nby asking you why. You aren't obligated to say anything, but if your\nintent is to convince me that X statement is true, then yes, the burden\nof proof is upon you. \n\nIf you are merely giving testimony to your beliefs, then you are an egotist.\nWhy would I care?\n\nTo surmise, the burden of proof is upon you if you wish us to believe that\nwhat you say is true.", "\ni did a workshop on this for an episcopalian student gathering a\ncouple months ago because i wanted to know the answer too. as far as\ni could tell, although that story was never specifically _told_ in the\nbible, many references are made to it, primarily in the new testament.\nin the old testament there is actually an entirely different view of\nsatan as a (excuse the pun) \"devil's advocate\" for yahweh. see the\nbook of job. getting back to the fallen angel story, there are _no_\nreferences to \"lucifer\" in the bible except for a mistranslation of\n\"the morning star\" in the king james version (isaiah 14:12), which\nprobably referred to a babylonian monarch much in the same was as \"the\nsun king\" referred to louis xiv. \n\nall in all, i don't know where the story _came from_; it may have been\nrolling around for a long time, or milton (_paradise lost_) may have\ninvented it. sorry for the sketchiness of the rest of this, but i am\nin a hurry and need to eat lunch! feel free to email me about the\nother stuff i found out.... (although a lot of it is just the result\nof a bible concordance program called \"quickverse\" -- it's really\nlousy, by the way -- don't buy it.) \n", "I am doing research on atheism, part of which involves field research here\non the net. The following is a survey directed towards all readers of this\ngroup, intended to get data about the basis of atheistic belief. I would\nseriously appreciate it if each and every one of you would fill it out and\nmail it back to me at mtabbott@unix.amherst.edu. \n\nFirst of all, I've tried to structure questions that can be answered in a\nvariety of ways, with varying amounts of detail; it's possible to give \nsuccinct answers to most everything, but there's enough here to keep most of \nyou typing for hours, I'm sure. As much detail as you want to give me (I mean \nit) is great, but it's also important for me to have as broad a base of \nindividuals as possible, so even minimal responses are far better than nothing\n-- it's a short survey if you just answer the questions without elaboration. \n\nSecondly, I hope some of the questions don't come off as obnoxious; I know that\nphrases like \"What would convince you of the existence of God\" imply that I am\na seminary student intent on proving you all to be ignorant Godless heathens.\nIn fact, I'm not too sure about the existence of a higher power myself, so my\nuse of \"God\" is a question of locution rather than ideology -- it's easier \nthan just repeating \"a deity or higher power\" every time. \n\nAlso, I tend to use a lot of anthropological buzzwords like \"belief system\"\nalthough I know some of you might contend that you don't have ANY beliefs, but\nare skeptical towards everything. I understand; but you know what I mean.\nThink of such buzzwords as abbreviations for the rather unweildy phrases \nrequired to get the precise idea across. \n\nLastly, thanks! Please fill out as much as you can, in as much detail as\nyou can, and send them to me. My research and I thank you. \n\n---------------\n\nWhere would you place your beliefs, on the spectrum \n\tTheism <--> Agnosticism <--> Weak Atheism <--> Strong Atheism? \nFeel free to elaborate on your specific beliefs. \n\n\nIn what, if any, religious tradition were you raised? Did you ever believe \nin the existence of a God? (Several of the following questions presume \nthat the answer to this is \"yes;\" if you've always been an atheist, or at\nleast never a theist, you may have to modify the question/answer somewhat.)\n\n\nHow serious was your/your family's involvement? \n\nHow and when did you start to doubt the tenets you were raised to believe? \n\nHow and when did your \"final break\" with your beliefs, if any, occur? I \nrealize that this is often more of an ongoing process than an \"event\" per se;\nwhatever the case, just describe it in whatever detail you wish. \n\n\nWhat contact with other atheists have you had; before and after (and during)\nyour \"conversion\" to atheism? (Certainly your involvement with alt.atheism\ncounts -- how have net discussions affected your beliefs?) \n\nTo what extent do you think other atheists have influenced you in your\nbeliefs? Did you come by your beliefs through discussion, through\nindependent means, or by some combination of the two or other means? \n\n\nAre you convinced that your beliefs were acquired through wholly rational\nmeans (proofs of the non-existence of God, etc), or was it perhaps, at least \nin part, through other means (alienation from mainstream religion, etc)? \n\n\nTo what extent do you feel you \"understand\" the universe through your beliefs?\nWhat phenomena of the universe and of human existence (anything from physical\nphenomena to the problem of the existence of evil in human affairs) do you \nfeel are adequately dealt with by your beliefs, and where are they lacking as \nan explanatory method? \n\nWhat would it take for you to question, or change, your beliefs? What would\nconvince you of the existence of God, what would convince you of the \nplausibility of God's existence, and so forth? How dynamic are your beliefs\n-- are they constantly changing; have they stayed more or less the same for\nsome time? \n\nAre you involved in a career or education in science? To what extent do you\nthink science has influenced your beliefs? (Issac Asimov claimed that science\nwas the new \"secular religion,\" and that \"scientists are, in a very real sense,\nthe new priesthood.\" Do you see the pursuit of science as having a quasi-\nreligious base, or even a religious element?) \n\n---------------\n\nThis survey is intended to get data from a broad range of individuals, but\nalso to help me narrow down the field to a small group of people whose\nideas and histories could be very useful to me. Would you be willing to have\nme, on the basis of this survey, write you to find out more about you and your\nbeliefs? If not, fine; your filling out the survey alone is great. \n\n---------------\n\nThanks again. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions about what\nI'm doing with this data, or if you have anything to say in addition to what\nI've asked about above. ", "\nNot if you show that these hypothetical atheists are gullible, excitable\nand easily led from some concrete cause. In that case we would also\nhave to discuss if that concrete cause, rather than atheism, was the\nfactor that caused their subsequent behaviour.", "[I'm going to cut \"Rex\"'s ramblings down a bit.]\n\n[...]\n\n Rex, there are literally hundreds of thousands of 32nd degree\nMasons in this country, and thousands of 33rds. If nasty stuff was\nreally going on, don't you think you'd have more than a couple of\ndisgruntled members \"exposing\" it? Heck, if what you say is true, then\nRev. Norman Vincent Peale is an Osiris worshiper.\n \n[...\nLong quote from someone named Hislop (source not given) deleted. I'm\nattempting to extract from it the relevent points: \n\n * Osiris is actually Nimrod, a Babylonian Deity. \n\n * \"It is admitted that the secret system of Free Masonry was originally\n founded on the Mysteries of the Egyptian Isis, the goddess-mother, or\n wife of Osiris.\"\n\n * The Babylonian Nimrod and Osiris are both connected with the building\n trade, ie, with Masonry.\n\n * Nimrod, as the son of Cush, was a negro. [isn't this refering to a \n Biblical Nimrod, rather than the Babylonian god?]\n\n * ...there was a tradition in Egypt, recorded by Plutarch, that 'Osiris\n was black'.\n...]\n\n There is a long tradition in Masonry of claiming ancient lineage\nfor the order, on the flimsiest of grounds. This dates right back to\nthe Constitutions of 1738, which cite Adam as the first Mason. I've\nseen other claims which place Masonry among the Romans, Greeks, and\nEgyptians, and Atlanteans. I even have a book which claims to prove\nthat Stonehenge was originally a Masonic temple. \n\n Claims prove nothing. Where's the beef, Rex?\n\n[...Claims ex-Mason showed him leopard skin he wore in lodge]\n\n I'd have to check this. The tomb paintings I remember don't show\nthis.\n\n\n Can you give ancient citations for this? The druids were suppressed\nover 2000 years ago. What's your point?\n\n This whole \"leopard skin\" business sounds bizarre. I have not yet\ngone through the Scottish Rite (which contains all of those \"higher\ndegrees\" anti-Masons get so excited about, and which was invented in\nthe 1750's), but I know enough people who have (and who are good\nChristians), that I reject your claim.\n\n\nNot so much a 'slap in the face' as 'a weary feeling of deja vu'. I'm\ngoing through a very similar argument over on soc.culture.african.american.\n\n\n Why don't you try reading some serious books on Masonic history, such\nas Hamill's \"The Craft\"?\n\n\n Because we got honest. If you can come up with actual evidence that\nMasonry existed prior to 1390, I'd be VERY impressed (actually,\nanything earlier than 1630 would be pretty good.)\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\tPeter Trei\n\t\t\t\t\t\tptrei@mitre.org", "whitsebd@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (Bryan Whitsell) sent in a list of verses \nwhich he felt condemn homosexuality. mls@panix.com (Michael Siemon) wrote in \nresponse that some of these verses \"are used against us only through incredibly \nperverse interpretations\" and that others \"simply do not address the issues.\"\n\n[remainder of my post deleted] The moderator then made some comments I would \nlike to address:\n\n\nIf you are referring to the terms \"effeminate\" and \"homosexuals\" in\nthe above passage, I agree that the accuracy of the translation has\nbeen challenged. However, I was simply commenting on the charge that\nit is an \"incredibly perverse\" interpretation to read this as a\ncondemnation of homosexuality. Such a charge seems to imply that no\nreasonable person would ever conclude from the verse that Paul\nintended to condemn homosexuality; however, I think I can see how a\nreasonable person might very well take this view of the verse.\nTherefore I do not believe it is \"incredibly perverse\" to read it in\nthis way.\n\n\nActually, I wasn't thinking of the church at all. After all, a couple\ndoesn't have to be married by a minister. A secular justice of the\npeace could do the job, and the two people would be married. My point\nwas that it is easy to find a biblical basis for heterosexual\nmarriage, but where in the Bible would one get a Christian marriage\nbetween two people of the same sex? And if you do see a biblical\nbasis for same-sex marriages, how willing would gay Christians be to\n\"save themselves\" for such a marriage and to never have sexual\nintercourse with anyone outside of that marriage relationship? Please\nnote that I am not trying to imply that gay Christians would not be\nwilling to be so monogamous, I am genuinely interested in hearing\nopinions on the subject. I have heard comments from gays in the past\nthat lead me to believe they regard promiscuity as one of the main\npoints of being homosexual, yet I tend to doubt that gays who want to\nbe Christian would advocate such a position. So what is the gay view?\n\n- Mark", "\n\n\tOkay, I went back and looked: sure enough, my hunch was right.\n\t\n\t\t2 Peter was most likely written between 100-120 A.D.\n\t\t\n\t\tRevelation was almost certainly written between 80-96 A.D.\n\t\t\n\t\tOdds are the gospel of John was written around 90 A.D.\n\t\t\n\t\tBest dates for Luke and Acts are around 80 A.D., maybe later.\n\t\t\n\tAgain, this is from footnoted information in the New American Bible,\n\tthe best translation I've come across in regards to giving complete\n\thistorical information about each book.\n\t\t\t\t\t\t- Mike\n\t\t\t\t\t\t)", "\n: Very true (length of time for discussions on creationism vs evolutionism). \n: Atheists and Christians have been debating since ?? and still debate with \n: unabated passion 8-).\n\nMike,\n\nI've seen referrences to \"Creation vs Evolution\" several times in a.a\nand I have question. Is either point of view derived from direct\nobservation; can either be scientific? I wonder if the whole\ncontroversy is more concerned with the consequences of the \"Truth\"\nrather than the truth itself. \nBoth sides seem to hold to a philosophical outcome, and I can't help\nwondering which came first. As I've pointed out elsewhere, my view of\nhuman nature makes me believe that there is no way of knowing\nanyhthing objectively - all knowledge is inherently subjective. So, in\nthe context of a.a, would you take a stand based on what you actually\nknow to be true or on what you want to be true and how can you tell\nthe difference?", "\nThat's not \"showing the signs of his innate sin\", that's testing the\nlimits of his newfound independence. A two-year-old will continually\ntest you to see just how much he can get away with, just as a pet dog\nwill.\n\nIf a child always submitted to your will in a docile fashion, would\nyou praise him and suspect that he's the Second Coming of Christ, or\nwould you seek professional help about his emotional development?\n", "Vera Shanti Noyes writes;\n\n\nOf course I believe in Predestination. It's a very biblical doctrine as\nRomans 8.28-30 shows (among other passages). Furthermore, the Church\nhas always taught predestination, from the very beginning. But to say\nthat I believe in Predestination does not mean I do not believe in free\nwill. Men freely choose the course of their life, which is also\naffected by the grace of God. However, unlike the Calvinists and\nJansenists, I hold that grace is resistable, otherwise you end up with\nthe idiocy of denying the universal saving will of God (1 Timothy 2.4). \nFor God must give enough grace to all to be saved. But only the elect,\nwho he foreknew, are predestined and receive the grace of final\nperserverance, which guarantees heaven. This does not mean that those\nwithout that grace can't be saved, it just means that god foreknew their\nobstinacy and chose not to give it to them, knowing they would not need\nit, as they had freely chosen hell.\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t ^^^^^^^^^^^\nPeople who are saved are saved by the grace of God, and not by their own\neffort, for it was God who disposed them to Himself, and predestined\nthem to become saints. But those who perish in everlasting fire perish\nbecause they hardened their heart and chose to perish. Thus, they were\ndeserving of God;s punishment, as they had rejected their Creator, and\nsinned against the working of the Holy Spirit.\n\n\nWell, I would hold that as God most certainly gives everybody some\nblessing for what good they have done (even if it was only a little),\nfor those He can't bless in the next life, He blesses in this one. And\nthose He will not punish in the next life, will be chastised in this one\nor in Purgatory for their sins. Every sin incurs some temporal\npunishment, thus, God will punish it unless satisfaction is made for it\n(cf. 2 Samuel 12.13-14, David's sin of Adultery and Murder were\nforgiven, but he was still punished with the death of his child.) And I\nneed not point out the idea of punishment because of God's judgement is\nquite prevelant in the Bible. Sodom and Gommorrah, Moses barred from\nthe Holy Land, the slaughter of the Cannanites, Annias and Saphira,\nJerusalem in 70 AD, etc.\n\nnot a >good parallel, but i'm going to go with it anyway), why should we\nnot >stop the murder and violation of people who may (or may not) be more\n\nWe should stop the slaughter of the innocent (cf Proverbs 24.11-12), but\ndoes that mean that Christians should support a war in Bosnia with the\nU.S. or even the U.N. involved? I do not think so, but I am an\nisolationist, and disagree with foreign adventures in general. But in\nthe case of Bosnia, I frankly see no excuse for us getting militarily\ninvolved, it would not be a \"just war.\" \"Blessed\" after all, \"are the\npeacemakers\" was what Our Lord said, not the interventionists. Our\nactions in Bosnia must be for peace, and not for a war which is\nunrelated to anything to justify it for us.", "\n >By the way, news.announce.newusers has an article (can't remember which\n >one) that recommends reading a newsgroup for 1 month before posting. \n >This makes sense because you get an idea who the players are and what \n >the current discussions are about.\n\n >Am I the only one who followed that advice?\n\nNo, I spent a month just reading, too, mainly because I did not know\nmuch about the way atheists think. I even printed out the FAQs and\ndiscussed it with a friend before I started posting.\n\nAlt.atheism deals with religious issues (more appropriately, lack of\nreligious beliefs), which are by their very nature very controversial.\nIt makes sense to read what is being discussed and how just to make\nsure you are not repeating something others have said better.\n\nPetri\n", "Michael Bushnell writes;\n\n\nWhich is exactly what I pointed out. (Though I was wrong about your use\nof the Creed, the 1913 Catholic Encylcopedia in which I read about it\nsaid the Orthodox do use the Creed minus the filioque. Apparently that\nhas changed.) The Athanasian Creed has always had the Filioque, the\nNicene - Constantinopolitan did not.\n\tOf course the Orthodox did not delete the Filioque from the Nicene\nCreed (it wasn't there to begin with), but they certainly did from the\nAthanasian Creed, which did have it from the beginning.\n\tI might point out that the whole problem started over the difference in\nways of explaining the generation of the Blessed Trinity, the East\nemphasizing the idea of the Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father\nthrough the Son, and the West using proceeding from the Father and the\nSon. In fact, some, such as Tertullian, used both formulations (see\nbelow)\n\n\t\"Following, therefore, the form of these examples, I profess that I do\ncall God and His Word, - the Father and and His Son, - two. For the\nroot and the stem are two things, but conjoined; the fountain and the\nriver are two kinds, but indivisible; the sun and the ray are two forms,\nbut coherent ones. Anything which proceeds from another must\nnecessarily be a second to that from which it proceeds; but it is not on\nthat account separated from it. Where there is second, however, there\nare two; and where ther is third, there are three. The Spirit, then, is\nthird from God and the Son, just as the third from the root is the fruit\nof the stem, and third from the fountain is the stream from the river,\nand thrid from the sun is the apex of the ray.\"\n\t-Tertullian, Against Praxeas, 8, 5 (about 213 AD)\n\nand\n\n\t\"I believe that the Spirit proceeds not otherwise than from the Father\nthrough the Son\"\n\t-Tertullian, Against Praxeas, 4, 1 (about 213 AD)\n\nAnd as St. Thomas showed in his Summa Theologica Part 1, Question 36,\nArticles 2 and 3, there is no contradiction between the two methods of\ngeneration, and in fact, the two methods of reckoning the procession\nemphasize what St. Augustine, among others taught, that the Holy Spirit\nproceeds from the Father and the Son, but He proceeds from the Father in\na more preeminent way.\n\n\t\"For whatever the Son has, He has from the Father, certainly He has it\nfrom the Father that the Holy Spirit proceeds from Him ... For the\nFather alone is not from another, for which reason He alone is called\nunbegotten, not, indeed, in the Scriptures, but in the practice of\ntheologians, and of those who employ such terms as they are able in a\nmatter so great. The Son, however, is born of the Father; and the Holy\nSpirit proceeds principally from the Father, and since the Father gives\nto the Son all that He has without any interval of time, the Holy Spirit\nproceeds jointly from both Father and Son. He would be called Son of\nthe Father and of the Son if, which is abhorent to everyone of sound\nmind, they had both begotten Him. The Spirit was not begotten by each,\nhowever, but proceeds from each and both.\"\n\t-St. Augustine of Hippo, The Trinity, 15, 26, 47 (400 to 416 AD)\n\nSo, in a sense, all of the formulations are correct (to the West at\nleast), because the Holy Spirit proceeds from both Father and Son, but\nin proceeding from the Son, the orgin of that procession is the\nprocession from the Father, so the Holy Spirit is proceeding from the\nFather through the Son, but as all that the Son has is from the Father,\nthe Holy Spirit can be said to proceed from the Father, without any\nmention of the Son being necessary.\n\tIn any case, I am happy to know that I follow in the beliefs of Pope\nSt. Leo I, St. Fulgence of Ruspe, St. Cyril of Alexandria, Pope St.\nDamsus I, St. Augustine of Hippo, St. Epiphanius of Salamis, St. Ambrose\nof Milan, St. Hilary of Poitiers, Tertullian, and others among the\nFathers, who all have very quotable quotes supporting the Catholic\nposition, which I enunciated above.\n\tAs for the issue of the adoption of another Creed being forbidden, I\nwill point out that the Holy Fathers of Ephesus and Chalcedon both spoke\nof the Creed of Nicea in their statement forbidding anyone \"to produce,\nwrite, or compose a confession of faith other than the one defined by\nthe Fathers of Nicea.\" That Creed is a different Creed than that of\nConstantinople, which is commonly called the Nicene Creed. Not of\ncourse in that they were condemning the adoption of the\nConstantinopolitan Creed, which is but an enlargement upon the Creed of\nNicea, but that they were condemning the impious opinions of Nestorious,\nwho had adopted a radically different Creed from the one used by the\nChurch, which among other things denied the procession of the Holy\nSpirit form the Son. Thus, the additions of the Constantinopolitan\nCreed were not thought to be in violation of this, and as the Council\nChalcedon also affirmed the doctrine of the procession of the Holy\nSpirit from the Son, which Nestorius denied, they could hardly have been\nagainst explaining in a fuller way the Creed, for they themselves\napproved of previous additions to it. And if the further explanations\nof the Creed made in Constantinople were not denigrating of the work\ndone by the Holy Fathers of Nicea or in any way heretical, it follows\nthat the Council of Toledo was fully able to add what was not disputed\nby the faithful to the Creed so as to combat the impieties of the Arians\nin Spain, because the filioque was not in dispute in the Church until\nmany years later under Photius and others. And that the filioque was\nnot disputed, I provide more quotes below.\n\n\t\"Since the Holy Spirit when he is in us effects our being conformed to\nGod, and he actually proceeds from the Father and Son, it is abundantly\nclear that He is of the divine essence, in it in essence and proceeding\nfrom it.\"\n\t-St. Cyril of Alexandria, The Treasury of the Holy and Consubstantial\nTrinity, Thesis 34, (423-425 AD)\n\n\t\"The Holy Spirit is not of the Father only, or of the Son only, but he\nis the Spirit of the Father and the Son. For it is written: `If anyone\nloves the world, the Spirit of the Father is not in him'; and again it\nis written: `If anyone, however, does not have the Spirit of Christ, he\nis none of His.' When the Father and the Son are named in this way, the\nHoly Spirit is understood, of whom the Son himself says in the Gospel,\nthat the Holy Spirit `proceeds from the Father,' and that `He shall\nreceive of mine and shall announce it to you.'\"\n\t-Pope St. Damasus I, The Decree of Damasus, 1 (382 AD)\n\n\t\"The only-begotten Holy Spirit has neither the name of the Son nor the\nappelation of Father, but is called Holy Spirit, and is not foreign to\nthe Father. For the Only-begotten Himself calls Him: `the Spirit of the\nFather,' and says of Him the `He proceeds from the Father,' and `will\nreceive of mine,' so that He is reckoned as not being foreign to the\nSon, but is of their same substance, of the same Godhead; He is Spirit\ndivine, ... of God, and He is God. For he is Spirit of God, Spirit of\nthe Father, and Spirit of the Son, not by some kind of synthesis, like\nsoul and body in us, but in the midst of Father and Son of the Father\nand of the Son, a third by appelation....\n\t\"The Father always existed and the Son always existed, and the Spirit\nbreathes from the Father and the Son; and neither is the Son created nor\nis the Spirit created.\"\n\t-St. Epiphanius of Salamis (which is on Cyprus), The Man Well-Anchored,\n8 and 75 (374 AD)\n\n\t\"Concerning the Holy Spirit, I ought not to remain silent, nor yet is\nit necessary to speak. Still, on account of those who do not know Him,\nit is not possible for me to be silent. However it is necessary to\nspeak of Him who must be acknowledged, who is from the Father and the\nSon, His Sources.\"\n\t-St. Hilary of Poitiers, The Trintiy, 2, 29 (356 to 359 AD)\n\n\tThus, as I have pointed out before, Gaul, Spain, Italy, Africa, Egypt,\nPalastine, and the lands of the Greeks, all of Christnedom at that time,\nall have Fathers who can be cited to show that they confess the doctrine\nexpressed by the filioque. I suggest to those of the Orthodox Church\nthat they come up with some of the Fathers, besides St. John of Damascus\nwho all will admit denied the filioque, to support their views. It is\nnot enough to bring up the \"proceeds from the Father\" line of the Creed\nor the Gospel of John, for that says what we believe also. But it does\nnot say the Holy Spirit does not proceed from the Son, only that He does\nproceed from the Father.", "\n\nThe big-bang model supposes a temporal singularity at the point of\norigin. There was _no_ time for a prior cause to occur in. If you\nwant to invent fables for the surrounding context, fine, but one fable\nis only as good as any other. Why should I prefer to believe in a God that\n_just_ exists, as opposed to a singularity that _just happened_, or \ngiant puce subspace iguanas, that fling universes off their tongues\nlike gobs of spit?\n\n\n\nJust your opinion, and unfortunately wrong. Self assembling molecules\nhave already been produced, entirely from inert matter, and have\nspontaneously mutated into a more rapidly assembling form on exposure\nto ultraviolet light. Both abiogenesis and the beginnings of evolution,\nTODAY. (saw this in \"Nature\", early last year.)\n\nBiological vitalism is dead, and has been dead for many, many years.\nGive it up. Life is not a 'spark'. Life is the self-organization\nof systems poised between chaos and order.\n\n\nYour King baldly and repeatedly stated he would be back within the lifetime\nof some then present and alive. \"Soon, soon\" he said, over and over - as\nhave many would be messiahs.\n\nIt is Nineteen Ninety Three\n\tof Years Anno Domini\nTell me, Tell me, where is He?\n\tNowhere at all, Q. E. D.\n\n\tMax G. Webb", "[reply to timmbake@mcl.ucsb.edu (Bake Timmons]\n \n \nWhich newsgroup have you been reading? The few anti-Christian posts are\nvirtually all in response to some Christian posting some \"YOU WILL ALL\nBURN IN HELL\" kind of drivel.\n \n \nBake, it is transparently obvious that you are a theist pretending to be\nan atheist. You probably think you are very clever, but we see this all\nthe time.\n \n \nBut of course *you* have dismissed them because you are an atheist,\nright?\n \n \nIn other words, you *didn't* read the FAQ after all.", "Here is some material by Michael Davies on the subject of schism in\ngeneral and Archishop Lefebvre in particular. He wrote it around\n1990. The first part of the two-part article was on the scandalous\nactivities of Archbishop Weakland (in this country), but I cut all\nthat. And I pared down the rest to what was relevant.\n\nJoe Buehler\n\n...\n\nSchism and Disobedience\n\nAccording to St. Thomas Aquinas, schism consists primarily in a\nrefusal of submission to the Pope or communion with the members of the\nChurch united to him. On first sight it would appear that, whatever\nthe subjective motivation of the Archbishop, as discussed above, he\nmust be in a state of objective schism as he has refused to submit to\nthe Pope on a very grave matter involving his supreme power of\njurisdiction. However, standard Catholic textbooks of theology make it\nclear that while all schisms involve disobedience not all acts of\ndisobedience are schismatic. If this were so, as was noted at the\nbeginning of this article, it would mean that the number of American\nbishops who are not schismatic would not reach double figures.\n\nThe distinction between disobedience and schism is made very clear in\nthe article on schism in the very authoritative Dictionnaire de\nTheologie Catholique. The article is by Father Yves Congar who is\ncertainly no friend of Archbishop Lefebvre. He explains that schism\nand disobedience are so similar that they are often confused. Father\nCongar writes that schism involves a refusal to accept the existence\nof legitimate authority in the Church, for example, Luther's rejection\nof the papacy. Father Congar explains that the refusal to accept a\ndecision of legitimate authority in a particular instance does not\nconstitute schism but disobedience. The Catholic Encyclopedia\nexplains that for a Catholic to be truly schismatic he would have to\nintend \"to sever himself from the Church as far as in him lies.\" It\nadds that \"not every disobedience is schism; in order to possess this\ncharacter it must include besides the transgression of the command of\nthe superiors, a denial of their divine right to command.\"Not only\ndoes Mgr. Lefebvre not deny the divine right of the Pope to command,\nbut he affirms repeatedly his recognition of the Pope's authority and\nhis intention of never breaking away from Rome. The Archbishop made\nhis attitude clear in the July/August 1989 issue of 30 Days: \"We pray\nfor the Pope every day. Nothing has changed with the consecrations\nlast June 30. We are not sedevacantists. We recognize in John Paul II\nthe legitimate Pope of the Catholic Church. We don't even say that he\nis a heretical Pope. We only say that his Modernist actions favor\nheresy.\"\n\n...\n\nIntrinsically Schismatic?\n\nThe principal argument used by those claiming that Mgr. Lefebvre is in\nschism is that the consecration of a bishop without a papal mandate is\nan intrinsically schismatic act. A bishop who carries out such a\nconsecration, it is claimed, becomes ipso facto a schismatic. This is\nnot true. If such a consecration is an intrinsically schismatic act it\nwould always have involved the penalty of excommunication. In the 1917\nCode of Canon Law the offence was punished only by suspension (see\nCanon 2370 of the 1917 Code). Pope Pius XII had raised the penalty to\nexcommunication as a response to the establishment of a schismatic\nchurch in China. The consecration of these illicit Chinese bishops\ndiffered radically from the consecrations carried out by Mgr. Lefebvre\nas the professed intention was to repudiate the authority of the Pope,\nthat is, to deny that he has the right to govern the Church, and the\nillicitly consecrated Chinese bishops were given a mandate to exercise\nan apostolic mission. Neither Archbishop Lefebvre nor any of the\nbishops he has consecrated claim that they have powers of\njurisdiction. They have been consecrated solely for the purpose of\nensuring the survival of the Society by carrying out ordinations and\nalso to perform confirmations. I do not wish to minimize in any way\nthe gravity of the step take by Mgr. Lefebvre. The consecration of\nbishops without a papal mandate is far more serious matter than the\nordination of priests as it involves a refusal in practice of the\nprimacy or jurisdiction belonging by divine right to the Roman\nPontiff. But the Archbishop could argue that the crisis afflicting the\nChurch could not be more grave, and that grave measures were needed in\nresponse.\n\nIt appears to be taken for granted by most of the Archbishop's critics\nthat he was excommunicated for the offense of schism, and the Vatican\nhas certainly been guilty of fostering this impression. There is not\nso much as a modicum of truth in this allegation. The New Code of\nCanon Law includes a section beginning with Canon 1364 entitled\n\"Penalties for Specific Offenses\" (De Poenis in Singula Dicta). The\nfirst part deals with \"Offenses against Religion and the Unity of the\nChurch\" (De Delictis contra Religionem et Ecclesiae Unitatem). Canon\n1364 deals with the offense of schism which is, evidently, together\nwith apostasy and heresy, one of the three fundamental offenses\nagainst the unity of the Church.\n\nBut the Archbishop was not excommunicated under the terms of this\ncanon or, indeed, under any canon involving an offense against\nreligion or the unity of the church. The canon cited in his\nexcommunication comes from the third section of \"Penalties for\nSpecific Offenses\" which is entitled \"Usurpation of Ecclesial\nFunctions and Offenses in their Exercise\" (De Munerum Ecclesiasticorum\nUsurpatione Degue Delictis iniis Exercendis). The canon in question is\nCanon 1382, which reads: \"A bishop who consecrates someone bishop and\nthe person who receives such a consecration from a bishop without a\npontifical mandate incur an automatic (latae sententiae)\nexcommunication reserved to the Holy See.\"\n\nThe scandalous attempts to smear Archbishop Lefebvre with the offense\nof schism are, then, contrary to both truth and charity. A comparable\nsmear under civil as opposed to ecclesiastical law would certainly\njustify legal action for libel involving massive damages. An accurate\nparallel would be to state that a man convicted of manslaughter had\nbeen convicted of first degree murder.\n\nI must stress that what I have written here is not the dubious opinion\nof laymen unversed in the intricacies of Canon Law. Canon lawyers\nwithout the least shred of sympathy for Mgr. Lefebvre have repudiated\nthe charge of schism made against him as totally untenable. Father\nPatrick Yaldrini, Dean of the Faculty of Canon Law of the Institut\nCatholique in Paris noted in the 4 July 1988 issue of Valeurs\nactuelles that, as I have just explained, Mgr. Lefebvre was not\nexcommunicated for schism but for the usurpation of an ecclesiastical\nfunction. He added that it is not the consecration of a bishop which\nconstitutes schism but the conferral of an apostolic mission upon the\nillicitly consecrated bishop. It is this usurpation of the powers of\nthe sovereign pontiff which proves the intention of establishing a\nparallel Church.\n\nCardinal Rosalio Lara, President of the Pontifical Commission for the\nAuthentic Interpretation of Canon Law, commented on the consecrations\nin the 10 July 1988 issue of la Repubblica. It would be hard to\n\n The act of consecrating a bishop (without a papal mandate) is not\n in itself a schismatic act. In fact, the Code that deals with\n offenses is divided into two sections. One deals with offenses\n against religion and the unity of the Church, and these are\n apostasy, schism, and heresy. Consecrating a bishop with a\n pontifical mandate is, on the contrary, an offense against the\n exercise of a specific ministry. For example, in the case of the\n consecrations carried out by the Vietnamese Archbishop Ngo Dinh\n Thuc in 1976 and 1983, although the Archbishop was excommunicated\n he was not considered to have committed a schismatic act because\n there was no intention of a breach with the Church.\n\n....\n\nIt is not simply unjust but ludicrous to suggest that in consecrating\nbishops without a papal mandate Archbishop Lefebvre had the least\nintent of establishing a schismatic church. He is not a schismatic and\nwill never be a schismatic. The Archbishop considers correctly that\nthe the Church is undergoing its worst crisis since the Arian heresy,\nand that for the good of the Church it was necessary for him to\nconsecrate the four bishops to ensure the future of his Society. Canon\nLaw provides for just such a situation, and even if one believes that\nthe future of the Society could have been guaranteed without these\nconsecrations, the fact that the Archbishop believed sincerely that it\ncould not means, as Canon Law states clearly, that he has not incurred\nexcommunication. Furthermore, while the Vatican allows such prelates\nas Archbishop Weakland to undermine the Faith with impunity it cannot\nexpect Catholics to pay the least attention to its sanctions against a\ngreat and orthodox Archbishop whose entire life has been devoted to\nthe service of the Church and the salvation of souls.\n\nDr. Eric M. de Saventhem, President of the International Una Voce\nAssociation, is one of the best informed laymen in the Church, and he\nknows the Archbishop intimately. Dr. de Saventhem, like myself, has no\ngreater desire than to see a reconciliation between Mgr. Lefebvre and\nthe Holy See during the Archbishop's lifetime. A quotation from a\nstatement by Dr. de Saventhem which was published in the 15 February\n1989 Remnant merits careful study:", "\n\nHow is a scriptural Levitical priesthood resumed? Are there any Jews who \ncan legitimately prove their Levite bloodline?", "Jesus isn't God ? When Jesus returns some people may miss Him ? What version of\nthe Bible do you read Mike ?\n\nJesus is God incarnate (in flesh) . Jesus said, 'I and the Father are one.' \nJesus was taken up to heaven after His 40 day post-resurrection stint and the\nangels who were there assured the apostles that Jesus would return the same way\nand that everyone will see the coming. That's why Jesus warned that many would\ncome claiming to be Him but that we would know when Jesus actually returns. \n\nThese are two very large parts of my faith and you definitely hit a nerve :-)", "Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap\na harvest if we do not give up. ", "pwhite@empros.com (Peter White) relates a story about a person who \ngives a message in tongues which consists entirely of the words pu'\nka. He was asked to refrain from doing that.\n\n\n\nNice story but it sets off my urban legend (or is it charismatic\nlegend?) alarms. Can the linguists on the net identify the language\nfrom the description? Or can they even attest that such a language\nexists. It seems to be odd enough (at least by the standards of\nEuropean languages) that if it exists, it should be reasonably well\nknown to linguists as an extreme case of something or other.\n\nOr have I just overreacted to your basic shaggy dog story?\n\nWill\n\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ", "Hello, Brycen ?!\nI'm a Norwegian journalist student - and also a Christian. Thanks for your \ntestimony! But I want to ask you one question: What do you think of Heavy \nMetal music after you became a Christian? You know there are Christian bands \nlike Barren Cross, Whitecross, Bloodgood and Stryper, that play that kind of \nmusic. I like some of it, I feel like it sometimes. Of course I listen to \nthe lyrics too. I don't listen to any Christian band, but it's better than \nlistening to secular music anyway. \nHope you're still going strong - with Christ!!", "\n\nThis thread seems to be arguing the validity of a religious viewpoint\naccording to some utilitarian principle, i.e. atheism/religion is\nwrong because it causes death. The underlying `moral' is that death\nis `wrong'. This is a rather arbitrary measure of validity.\n\nGet some epistemology.", "This is to let you know that the fourth issue of the Copt-Net Newsletter \nhas been issued. The highlights of this issue include:\n\n\n 1. Easter Greating: Christ is risen; Truly he is risen!\n 2. The Holy Family in Egypt (part 1)\n 3. Anba Abraam, the Friend of the Poor (part 4)\n 4. A review of the Coptic Encyclopedia\n 5. A new Dictionary of the Coptic Language\n\n\nThis Newsletter has been prepared by members of Copt-Net, a forum\nwhere news, activities, and services of the Coptic Orthodox Churches\nand Coptic communities outside Egypt are coordinated and exchanged.\nIf you want your name to be included in the mailing list, or have any \nquestions please contact Nabil Ayoub at .", "\n\n\tWhy do we follow God so blindly? Have you ever asked a\nphysically blind person why he or she follows a seeing eye dog?\nThe answer is quite simple--the dog can see, and the blind person\ncannot.\n\n\tI acknowledge, as a Christian, that I am blind. I see,\nbut I see illusions as well as reality. (Watched TV lately?)\nI hear, but I hear lies as well as truth. (Listen to your \nradio or read a newspaper.) Remember, all that tastes well is\nnot healthy. So, I rely one the one who can see, hear, and\ntaste everything, and knows what is real, and what is not.\nThat is God.\n\n\tOf course, you may ask, if I cannot trust my own senses,\nhow do I know whether what I see and hear about God is truth or\na lie. That is why we need faith to be saved. We must force\nourselves to believe that God knows the truth, and loves us\nenough to share it with us, even when it defies what we think\nwe know. Why would He have created us if He did not love us \nenough to help us through this world?\n\n\tI also do trust my experiences to some extent. When\nI do things that defy the seeming logic of my experience, \nbecause it is what my Father commands me to do, and I see\nthe results in the long term, I find that He has led me\nin the proper direction, even though it did not feel right\nat the time. This is where our works as Christians are\nimportant: As exercises of the body make the body strong,\nexcercises of faith make the faith strong. \n\n\tAs for you, no one can \"convert\" you. You must\nchoose to follow God of your own will, if you are ever to\nfollow Him. All we as Christians wish to do is share with\nyou the love we have received from God. If you reject that,\nwe have to accept your decision, although we always keep\nthe offer open to you. If you really want to find out\nwhy we believe what we believe, I can only suggest you try\npraying for faith, reading the Bible, and asking Christians\nabout their experiences personally. Then you may grow to\nunderstand why we believe what we do, in defiance of the\nlogic of this world.\n\n\tMay the Lord bring peace to you, ", "\nOK, here's at least one Christian's answer:\n\nJesus was a JEW, not a Christian. In this context Matthew 5:14-19 makes\nsense. Matt 5:17 \"Do not think that I [Jesus] came to abolish the Law or\nthe Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill.\" Jesus lived\nunder the Jewish law. However, He was the culmination of the promises\nof the Prophets. He came to *fulfill* the prophecies and fully obey\nGod's purposes.\n\nVerse 18 says \"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass\naway, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the Law,\nuntil all is accomplished.\" The key to this verse IMHO is the last \nphrase. Jesus, as the fulfillment of the law, \"accomplished\" what the \nLaw was supposed to accomplish. \n\nVerse 19: \"Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments,\nand so teaches others, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven;\nbut whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the\nkingdom of heaven.\" Taken in the context of Jesus teaching Jewish \npeople about living lives under the law, this makes sense.\n\nIn general, it appears that Jesus is responding to some criticism he \nmust have received about \"doing away with the Law.\" That was not \nJesus' intent at all. He had come to earth to live the Law as it \nshould be lived and fulfill the promises made by God to his \npeople all the way back to Eve [Gen 3:15-The serpent will bruise your \nheel, but *He* will bruise his head.] Jesus appeared to be \"doing \naway with the Law\" because he did not honor the traditions of men as \nequal to the Law of God. He regularly locked horns with the religious \nleaders of the day because he would not conform to *their* rules, only \nGod's Law.\n\nIn the Matthew passage Jesus is defending his dedication to the Law \nand defending himself against his accusors. Almost the entire Sermon \non the Mount (Matt. 5-7) is dedicated to helping the Jewish people \nunderstand the true intent of the Law, sweeping away the clutter which \nhad been introduced by the Pharasees and their traditions.\n\nIn Galatians 3:23-26, Paul describes the relationship of Jesus to the \nLaw in this way:\n\n[23] But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being \nshut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. [24] Therefore \nthe Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be \njustified by faith. [25] But now that faith has come, we are no \nlonger under a tutor. [26] For you are all sons of God through faith \nin Christ Jesus.\n\nI believe this says that after Christ was revealed, the Law had \nserved it's purpose, i.e. \"our tutor to lead us to Christ,\" and\nnow, \"we are no longer under a tutor.\" The law has been \"fulfilled\" \nas Christ said he would do.\n\nGod, the author of the old Law, and the Christ/Man, Jesus, are the same\npersonality. Therefore, the old Law and the new Testament (the \"last\nwill and testament\" of Jesus) are based on the same moral principles. \nIt makes sense that many of the principles in the old Law are\nre-expressed in Christianity. \n\nOn the other hand, now that the Law has fulfilled it's purpose and \nChristians relate to God through Christ, not the Law, it also makes \nsense that new practices and new symbolisms were established to \nrepresent the \"mysteries\" of this new relationship. i.e. Baptism \nrepresenting Christ's death, burial, and resurrection (Rom. 6:3-8),\nThe Lord's supper as a memorial to His sacrifice (I Cor. 11:26), and\nSunday as a day of worship commemorating His resurrection (Matt 28:1ff,\nActs 20:7)\n\nOK, That's one Christian's explanation. I don't claim to have all\nthese issues completely settled even in my own mind and I welcome\nother Christians to offer other alternatives.\n\nPlease excuse the long posting. Thanks for your interest if you have read \nthis far...", "\n\n\nExactly. \n\nC. S. Lewis has taken a couple of pretty severe hits in this group lately.\nFirst somebody was accusing him of being self-righteous and unconvincing.\nNow we are told that we Christians should be embarrassed by him. (As well\nas by Josh McDowell, about whom I have no comment, having never read his\nwork.)\n\nAnyone who thinks that C. S. Lewis was self-righteous ought to read his\nintroduction to The Problem of Pain, which is his theodicy. In it, he\nexplains that he wanted to publish the book anonymously. Why? Although he\nbelieved in the argument he was presenting, he did not want to seem to\npresume to tell others how brave they should be in the face of their own\nsuffering. He did not want people to think that he was presenting himself\nas some kind of model of fortitude, or that he was anything other than what\nhe considered himself to be -- \"a great coward.\" \n\nOFM has adequately handled the question of whether we ought to be\nembarrassed by Lewis' liar/lunatic/lord argument (which, by the way, is\npart of a *much* bigger discourse.) I would just like to add that, far from\nbeing embarrassed by Lewis, I am in a state of continual amazement at the\nsoundness and clarity of the arguments he presents. \n\n- Phil -", "\n\nWhy would you say \"especially Christianity\"?\n", "\n > Between Adam and Eve and Golgotha the whole process of the fall\n > of man occurred. This involved a gradual dimming of\n > consciousness of the spiritual world. This is discernable in\n > the world outlooks of different peoples through history. The\n > Greek, for example, could say, \"better a beggar in the land of\n > the living than a king in the land of the dead.\" (Iliad, I\n > think).\n\nI would not swear that nothing of the sort is found in the Iliad,\nbut the first passage I thought of was the Odyssey 11:480 or\nthereabouts (my copy has no line numbers). The ghost of Acchilles\nspeaks (Robert FitzGerald translation):\n\n > Better, I say, to break sod as a farm hand\n > for some poor country man, on iron rations,\n > than lord it over all the exhausted dead.\n\nThe next passage I thought of was from Ecclesiastes 9:4\n\n + A living dog is better than a dead lion.\n\n > On the other hand, there is one notion firmly embedded in\n > Christianity that originated most definitely in a pagan source.\n > The idea that the human being consists essentially of soul\n > only, and that the soul is created at birth, was consciously\n > adopted from Aristotle, whose ideas dominated Christian thought\n > for fifteen hundred years and still does today....\n\nSurely Aristotle had little influence on Christian thought before\nabout 1250 AD.", "Yesterday, I got the chance to hear Kurt Vonnegut speak at the\nUniversity of New Hampshire. Vonnegut succeeded Isaac Asimov as the \n(honorary?) head of the American Humanist Association. (Vonnegut is\nan atheist, and so was Asimov) Before Asimov's funeral, Vonnegut stood up\nand said about Asimov, \"He's in heaven now,\" which ignited uproarious \nlaughter in the room. (from the people he was speaking to around the time\nof the funeral)\n\n\t \"It's the funniest thing I could have possibly said\nto a room full of humanists,\" Vonnegut said at yesterday's lecture. \n\n If Vonnegut comes to speak at your university, I highly recommend\ngoing to see him even if you've never read any of his novels. In my opinion,\nhe's the greatest living humorist. (greatest living humanist humorist as well)\n\n\n Peace,", "\nAaron> Colossians 2:11-12 \"In him you were also circumcised, in the\nAaron> putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done\nAaron> by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism and raised\nAaron> with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him\nAaron> from the dead.\"\n\nAaron> In baptism, we are raised to a new life in Christ (Romans 6:4)\nAaron> through a personal faith in the power of God. Our parent's\nAaron> faith cannot do this. Do infants have faith? Let's look at\nAaron> what the Bible has to say about it.\n\nYes, let do. Try: \n\n\"And if anyone causes one of these little ones *who believes in me*\nto sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea\nwith a large millstone tied around his neck.\" Mark 9:42\n\n\"Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them,\nfor the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. I tell you\nthe truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God\nlike a little child will never enter it.\"\n\nThe Colossians passage does not make faith a requirement\nfor baptism. It merely says that in baptism we are born again,\nregenerated, and resurrected through faith. In the case\nof an infant I would say that baptism works faith in the\nheart of the infant--through the power of the word.\n\nThe Colossians passage does make baptism a spiritual circumcision.\nCircumcision was the means by which a male infant was made\na part of God's covenant with Israel. It was commanded to be\nperformed on the eighth day. The early church understood this,\nand even debated whether baptism had to be performed on the\neighth day, or if it could in fact be done earlier.\n\nAaron> Romans 10:16-17 \"But not all the Israelites accepted the good\nAaron> news. For Isaiah says, 'Lord, who has believed our message?'\nAaron> Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the\nAaron> message is heard through the word of Christ.\"\n\nAaron> So then we receive God's gift of faith to us as we hear the\nAaron> message of the gospel. \n\nAnd the gospel is surely preached at any infant's (or adult's)\nbaptism. Indeed, in a very real sense, the sacraments are\nthe Gospel made tangible.\n\nAaron> Faith is a possible response to hearing\nAaron> God's word preached. Kids are not yet spiritually,\nAaron> intellectually, or emotionally mature enough to respond to\nAaron> God's word. \n\nHow do you know they are not yet mature enough to have faith?\nDo you know this on the basis of God's Word, or from your own\nreason?\n\nFaith is also described as a gift from God, Ephesians 2:8,9. \nHe gives faith to infants just as he gives it to adults, through\nthe power of the gospel, Romans 1:6.\n\nAaron> If you read all of Ezekiel 18, you will see that God doesn't\nAaron> hold us guilty for anyone else's sins. So we can have no\nAaron> original guilt from Adam.\n\nHere you show that you just don't understand original sin--\nyou are arguing against a straw man.\nMaybe you've been talking to Catholics too much. I don't\nknow. But original sin does not consist of God's imputation\nof Adam's guilt to us. It consists of our inheritance of\nAdam's sinful nature. It is actual sin. See for example,\nthe Augsburg Confession, Article II, and the Apology of the\nAugsburg Confession, Article II, and, for extra credit,\nJohn Knox's `The Scots confession', Article III.\n\nAaron> Now then that we have a little more background as to why\nAaron> original sin is not Biblical, let's look at some of the\nAaron> scriptures used to support it.\n\nAaron> Romans 5:12 \"Therefore, just as sin entered the world through\nAaron> one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to\nAaron> all men, because all sinned--\"\n\n\nAsk yourself this question. \"Do infants ever die?\" Then ask\nyourself, \"If infant baptism is not valid, then where was the\nChristian Church during all the centuries when almost all \nof the baptisms were performed on infants? Were Luther, Melancthon,\nCalvin, Zwingli, Hus, Knox, Andrae, and Chemnitz Christians?\n\n\nAaron> Psalm 51:5 \"Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time\nAaron> my mother conceived me.\"\n\nAaron> This whole Psalm is a wonderful example of how we should humble\nAaron> ourselves before God in repentance for sinning. David himself\nAaron> was a man after God's own heart and wrote the Psalm after\nAaron> committing adultry with Bathsheba and murdering her husband.\nAaron> All that David is saying here is that he can't remember a time\nAaron> when he wasn't sinful. He is humbling himself before God by\nAaron> confessing his sinfulness. His saying that he was sinful at\nAaron> birth is a hyperbole. The Bible, being inspired by God, isn't\nAaron> limited to a literal interpetation, but also uses figures of\nAaron> speech as did Jesus (John 16:25). For another example of\nAaron> hyperbole, see Luke 14:26.\n\nWho are you to say what is literal and what is not? Is a literal\ninterpretation manifestly absurd in Psalm 51 by reason of direct\ncontradiction with a clear passage from the Word of God?\n\nYou might also compare Genesis 8:21, \"The LORD smelled the\npleasing aroma and said in his heart, `Never again will I curse\nthe ground because of man, even though every inclination of\nhis heart is evil from childhood....\"\n\nAaron> We see\nAaron> that he did grow and become wiser in Luke 2:40 and 2:52. The\nAaron> implication is that Jesus did wrong things as a child before he\nAaron> knew to choose right over wrong.\n\nYou are a long way from proving this (rather monstrous) assertion.\nAll you can say is that Jesus grew in wisdom and in stature. A\nconclusion that he did wrong as a child is based on an extrapolation\nof reason, not on a direct revelation in Scripture.", "Robert, you keep making references to \"orthodox\" belief, and saying things\nlike \"it is held that...\" (cf. \"Kermit\" thread). On what exact body of\ntheology are you drawing for what you call \"orthodox?\" Who is that \"holds\nthat\" Luke meant what you said he meant? Whenever your personal interpretation\nof Biblical passages is challenged, your only response seems\nto be that one needs merely to \"look at the Bible\" in order to see the truth,\nbut what of those who see Biblical things differently from you? Are we to\nsimply assume that you are the only one who really understands it?\n Just curious,", "\nIf you would bother to check in any good dictioanry or thesaurus, I think\nyou will find that \"arrogance\" has to do with an offensive exhibition of\npresumed or real superiority (a paraphrase from my own Webster's).\nArrognace is about pride and haughtiness. A person can believe in absolute\ntruth, even blindly (whatever that means) without being obnoxious about it.\nJust as a person can be a \"humble,\" authority-questioning,\ndefying-any-theist-to-reply athiest and be quite arrogant. Arrogance is not\nabout what you believe, it is about how you relate to what you believe and\nhow you present it to others. If your overwhelming experience of Christians\nhas been that they are arrogant, I apologozing both for myself and on the\nbehalf of those who have offfended you. But my own experience, at least in\nforums like Usenet where you see a good mix of people, is that arrogant\nChristians and athiests seems to occur in about equal numbers.\n\n- Phil -", " ...\n ...\n\n Interesting idea.\n\n This suggestion has inspired me to post, under the title \"Theories \nof Creation\", a collection of various \"philosophies\" of creation that \nI am aware of. Could you explain which of these theories you would\nwant taught, and which ones you would not? Or, perhaps, I haven't\nincluded a favorite theory of yours (if so, could you describe it for\nme for inclusion in an updated list)?\n", "\n\n\n\nNow this is getting interesting!\n\nI was raised Roman Catholic before becoming an atheist, so I have stated\nthis Creed you quote nearly every Sunday until I was about 18. For some\nreason, I always took the 'resurrection' in this statement to mean the\nresurrection of the soul, but I guess resurrection does strictly mean\nthe raising of the physical body. I have some questions on this point:\n\n1. I always thought that Christians believe the descent into hell was \npretty much immediate, and that there are people burning in hell right\nnow. You seem to be implying that it will not occur until after the\n\"great judgement\" (which I read as meaning the proverbial Judgment Day).\nI was always a little confused on this point, even when I was with the\nchurch -- maybe someone can clear it up for me. Where will my \"soul\"\n(which, by the way, I don't believe in) exist until that time?\n\n2. Will the new body I will have be created out of the same atoms \nthat my body now is made of, or will it be built from scratch? My\nphysical body now is susceptible to aging, etc. -- so I guess my\nnew body will have to be radically different in order to be immortal\nso it can be tortured for all eternity?\n\n3. Since I will have a physical body, I assume it will need a physical\nplace to exist in -- where is this hell? In the center of the earth?\nDo you think we could find it if we dig?\n\nMark Schnitzius\nschnitzi@eola.cs.ucf.edu\nUniv. of Central Florida\n\n[There is not complete agreement on the details of the afterlife. I\nthink the most common view is that final disposition does not occur\nuntil a final judgement, which is still in the future. In the\nmeantime, some believe that people \"sleep\" until the final\nresurrection (or because God is above time, pass directly from death\nto the future time when the resurrection occurs), while others believe\nthat souls have a disembodied, pre-resurrection existence until then.\nThere are probably other alternatives that I'm omitting.\n\nThe new body is generally conceived of being implemented in a\ndifferent \"technology\" than the current one, one which is not mortal.\n(Paul talks about the mortal being raised to immortality, and Jesus'\nresurrected body -- which is the first example -- clearly was not\nsubject to the same kind of limitations as ours.) It is assumed that\nthere are enough similarities that people will recognize each other,\nbut I don't think most people claim to know the details. I don't\nthink I'd say it's the same atoms. I'd assume there would be some\nanalog of a physical place, but I wouldn't expect to find it under the\nearth or up in the sky. I'd suspect that it's in another dimension,\noutside this physical world, or whatever. But again, we have little\nin the way of details.", "The primary problem in human nature is a \"fragmentation of being.\"\nHumans are in a state of tension, a tension of opposites. Good and\nevil are the most thought provoking polarities that come to mind.\n\nThe Bible provides us with many examples of the fragmentation of\nbeing. The warring opposites within us are a product of man's\nrebellion against God, which is described so vividly in the pages of\nthe Scriptures.\n\nMan was created with the order to become a god. Those were the words\nof St. Basil in the fourth century. What he was trying to say was\nthat God created man to be a partaker of the divine nature. In the\nEastern Orthodox Church, this is called \"theosis,\" or \"deification.\"\n\nOne can also say that man was created to be whole, i.e. spirit, soul,\nand body operating in unison. The story of Adam and Eve is a picture\nof the archetypal humans before obtaining moral consciousness. Theirs\nwas a harmonious relationship with each other, the world, and the\nCreator. That innocent harmony was shattered when they disobeyed God,\ntheir natural wholeness falling apart into two seemingly\nirreconcilable halves. Immediately, guilt and fear was manifested in\ntheir lives. They become bound to hardship, toil, and suffering. This\nis symbolized in their exile from the paradisiac state.\n\nThe beast in the jungle does not possess moral consciousness. If it\nwere to receive this self-awareness, the knowledge of good and evil,\nits paradisiac state would also be destroyed.\n\nWas it the intention of the Creator to leave man in this state of\ninnocence all the days of his existence on earth? Or was the gaining\nof self-awareness carefully staged by God, who did not desire that His\nmasterpiece, mankind, be a blissful idiot?\n\nGod must have known that, for mankind to achieve any kind of moral\nvalue, he must pass through a confrontation with the opposites. There\nis no other way to achieve union with God.\n\nJesus Christ is the answer to the problem of the warring polarities.\nHe was the perfectly integrated individual, reconciling the opposites,\nand making it possible for us to be integrated, i.e. to become God,\nnot in His essence, but in His energies.\n\nThe opposites is THE Christian problem. The Apostle Paul describes it\nwith the utmost precision in Romans 7:15-24. And he follows with the\nanswer to his dilemma in vs 25.", "\n\nI include the key verse (D&C 68:25) because others\nmay not have the reference.\n\n\"And again, inasmuch as parents have children in Zion,\nor in any of her stakes which are organized, that teach\nthem not to understand the doctrine of repentance,\nfaith in Christ the Son of the living God, and of\nbaptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying\non of the hands, when eight years old, the sin be\nupon the heads of the parents.\"\n\nWhat is \"the sin\" of the parents?\n\n\n\nEzekiel 18 teaches a correct principle.\nHowever, it assumes that fathers and sons have \nequal knowledge to prepare for the judgment.\n\nParents are responsible to teach their children\nthe Gospel and other life skills. Should they\nfail to make a sufficient attempt to teach their \nchildren, the parent would be held responsible\n-- not for their children's sins, but for not\nteaching them properly.\n\nWhenever the Lord installs someone to a position \nof authority in either the family or the church He\nexpects that person to teach those in his charge.\n\nIn Ezekiel 33:7-9 someone called to care for others \nis likened to \"a watchman unto the house of Israel.\"\n\"If thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from \nhis way, that man shall die in his iniquity; but\nhis blood will I require at thine hand.\nNevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to \nturn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he\nshall die in his iniquity; but thou hast\ndelivered thy soul.\"\n\nEven though the D&C prefaces this commandment with\n\"parents have children in Zion\" I believe all\nparents are responsible for teaching their children \nwhatever good principles they understand.\nHowever, LDS parents accept greater responsbility\nand could be judged more strictly.", "\n\npete zakel is right, we don't need to worry about capitalization\nrules. after all, the punctuation gives all the necessary information\nabout the sentence structure. why should anyone worry about whether the\ntext is as close to the original as possible. (sarcasm intended). \n\n\nThen you didn't understand my grumble... Again, I said to get a\nCORRECT version of the Constitution. The first indicator that\nsomething is wrong (i.e. the copy has been modernized) is the modern\ncapitalization rules. The next thing to go is the spelling, and then\nI've even seen versions where the GRAMMAR was modernized (oh, but\ndon't worry, modernizing the grammar won't change the meaning of the\ntext, right?... ;-) [p.s. I have found about 10 *different* versions\nof the Constitution on the network; And accuracy DOES matter...]\n\n--\nCharles Scripter * cescript@phy.mtu.edu\nDept of Physics, Michigan Tech, Houghton, MI 49931", "\nIf that's the ONLY reason, I'd be inclined to doubt whether or not what\nthey profess is Christianity. The relationship of faith is based upon\ntrust. Fear and trust are generally incompatible. If my only motivation\nis fear, is there room for trust? If so, there's room for faith. \nIf fear precludes trust, then there can't be faith.\n\nLarry Overacker (llo@shell.com)\n-- ", "Hitherto have ye asked nothing\n\tin my name:\n\task, and ye shall receive,\n\tthat your joy may be full.", "After reading the posts on this newsgroup for the pasts 4 months, it \nhas become apparent to me that this group is primarily active with \nLiberals, Catholics, New Agers', and Athiests. Someone might think \nto change the name to: soc.religion.any - or - perhaps even\nsoc.religion.new. It might seem to be more appropriate.\nHeck, don't flame me, I'm Catholic, gay, and I voted \nfor Bill Clinton. I'm on your side! \n", "My last response in this thread fell into a bit-bucket and vanished\n(though appearing locally). I'll repost it, since I always feel\nslighted when someone appears to ignore one of my postings in a\nconversational thread, I don't want Rob to think I'm doing so. Since\nthis is now dated, however, don't feel compelled to respond...\n\n\nI suspect you meant this in context of the Jewish tradition you have\nbeen referring to; one problem with a highly-interpreted tradition\nlike this is what happens when a schism occurs, and over time certain\nlarge and influential branches of the heretical group come to favor\nexactly a \"face value\" interpretation...\n\n\nWhile the context of the time is important, value judgments must\nultimately be according to current understanding, or at least to some\nbase standard (relative stability/success of a society, e.g.). This\nis obviously true in comparing it to practices of surrounding people,\nfor instance: according to the Bible, the surrounding people were\nimmoral savages with repulsive and inhuman habits. We need to look\nrather at what those peoples were *really* like. For instance, in\nwhat way is it better to worship a single god whose presence is\nsymbolically strongest in a tent or temple over multiple gods some of\nwhose presence is symbolically represented in a statue? By the\nBible's own terms idolatry is inherently evil, but I see no evidence\nthat the followers of the various other religions of the area and time\nwere particularly bad people, relative to the people in the Bible.\n\n\nSounds good, but it presupposes teeth-rending neighbors, which I see\nno support for. One can argue that post-facto assertion of inhumane\nneighbors can be used to make moral points, but that doesn't mean that\nthe actual neighbors really were inhuman. More to the point, such\ndehumanization of the people across the river or over the mountain, or\neven of a different people dwelling among us, is all too common.\n\n\nNote that I'm speaking of historical interpretation here, for instance\nclaiming that Hammurabi's \"an eye for an eye\" was primitive brutal\nretribution, while Moses' version was an enlightened benign fine\n(because the tradition has since interpreted the phrase that way). As\nof 3000 years ago or so, they probably both meant the same thing.\n\n\nI don't belittle the accomplishments, particularly the intellectual\nones, of the Jewish people. I have given up on trying to think by\nanalogy, since I don't know of any other 'tribe' that is at all\nsimilar (the closest I can think of are the Romany, but I don't know\nenough about them to make a meaningful comparison). I think a\ntradition of reflective study, of flexible rather than dogmatic\ninterpretation, is a good thing. I think that with such an attitude a\ncase could be made that you could have done as well starting with a\n1943 Captain America comic (or whatever the Babylonian equivalent\nwould have been).\n-- \nJim Perry perry@dsinc.com Decision Support, Inc., Matthews NC\nThese are my opinions. For a nominal fee, they can be yours.\n\n", "\nThat is not necessarily unorthodox. When Christians call God 'Father', \nwe are using a metaphor. The Bible in one place refers to God as being\nlike a mother. God is neither a father nor a mother in the literal\nsense; God has some of the attributes of both; the father metaphor is\nusually used because (for most people at most times) it is the less\nmisleading of the two possibilities.", ": \n: I am a Mormon. I believe in Christ, that he is alive. He raised himself\n: [Text deleted]\n:\n: I learned that the concept of the Holy Trinity was never taught by Jesus\n: Christ, that it was \"agreed to\" by a council of clergymen long after Christ\n: was ascended, men who had no authority to speak for him.\n:\nIf Jesus never taught the concept of the Trinity, how do you deal with the \nfollowing: \n\n Mat 28 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, \"All authority in heaven\n and on earth has been given to me.\n\n Mat 28 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing\n them in¹ the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,\n\n Mat 28 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.\n And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.\" \n\nAlso Jesus speaking:\n\n Act 1 5 For John baptized with¹ water, but in a few days you will\n be baptized with the Holy Spirit.\"\n\nI believe that you may have overlooked some key verses, that are crucial to\nthe Christian faith. ", "After tons of mail, could we move this discussion to alt.religion?\n=============================================================\n--There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke. (Bob Dylan)\n--\"If you were happy every day of your life you wouldn't be a human\nbeing, you'd be a game show host.\" (taken from the movie \"Heathers.\")\n--Lecture (LEK chur) - process by which the notes of the professor\nbecome the notes of the student without passing through the minds of\neither.\n", "\n\nIt is true that Mormons believe that all spirits (including Jesus,\nLucifer, Robert Weiss) are in the same family. It does not mean\nthat Jesus was created, but rather that Lucifer and Robert Weiss\nwere not. I agree that this is a \"heresy\". So what? \nThe sweating of blood in Gethsemene is\nnot a basic Mormon doctrine. Jesus did not perform the atonement\nin Getheseme alone, as some anti-Mormons are trying to teach. \nAs far as the \"unpardonable sin\" whatever that is, it is Biblical,\nand not specifically Mormon. It is also called the sin against\nthe Holy Ghost. Most Bible scholars (other than conservative\nones) do not believe Jehovah and Elohim were always the same.\nI'm sure you've heard of the J and the E texts? I don't\nknow what you mean by \"That He needed to be saved\". Jesus?\nJehovah? Elohim? In Mormon doctrine, Jesus was sinless,\nand thus did not \"need to be saved\". \n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "\nI certainly agree with the last paragraph. Also, Jesus;s statements on\nhell can be treated as totally symbolic, allegorical or as parables, as\nwas much of his other teaching. There's more than enough hell here on earth\nthat we are freed from by following Jesus that the rest just doesn't mattter\nto me. And the fact that we can be free of the hell here is the best gift\nGod offers. Eternal life begins for us now and we do not wait to start\npartaking of the divine nature and journeying on the path to deification.\n\nLarry Overacker (llo@shell.com)\n-- ", "\nIn the abstract, what you're saying is true. But the facts happen to\nagree with me, and disagree completely with you. \n\n\nListen, Pinkas. I'm going to count on the supposition that you think\nthrough the opinions you have - something which is, by the way, against\nmy better judgment based on what I've seen from you to date. We are\nagreed, aren't we, that dictionaries are *reference books* for the usage\nof a given language, and in particular for the meanings of the words and\nphrases which comprise that language? Now, you are using meanings\ncompletely different from, indeed in some cases diametrically different\nfrom, those given in the dictionary. As a reference book, a dictionary\ncontains those meanings in both past and (as much as it can) in current\nuse. That's also why they are updated so often. Now, if you are saying\nthings which you give different meanings than the dictionary does, and\nusing non-standard meanings about every word, what is your chance of\nbeing taken at face value...?\n\nJust about none. Just about no one will take you that way because the\nwords mean something different to them. It's quite clear to me from\nthe response this thread has been getting that that is exactly what is\nhappening. Ponder that.\n\n\n\nWhat you did was ask a leading question. In English idiom, the phrase\n\"and guess why...\" in the way you used it is a loaded question, with\nonly one answer expected. \n\nI also take offense at being told I cannot read by someone who is\nobviously having trouble with the subject himself. Mr. Pinkas, I am a\nPhD candidate in my field. One does not get to PhD candidacy if one\ncannot read. \n\n\nBalderdash. You know this is false. I would be able to make the\nabstraction if it bore any resemblance to the facts of the matter.\nYours did not. The analogy is utterly inapplicable.\n\nI wouldn't be in the field I'm in -- astrophysics -- if I couldn't make\nabstractions and speculate about the general grand scheme of things. I\nalso wouldn't be in education -- which I am (and my students give me\nrather good reviews I'd add) -- if I couldn't draw such analogies.\n\n\nThe vast majority of Palestinians in Israeli prisons aren't tortured,\nand their houses weren't blown up by the army. In fact, you've seen me\nprotesting such measures ON THIS NET before. Are you now trying to\nintimate my agreement with them?\n\n\nDo you know the meanings of the words you use or do you expect the\nreader to read your mind? I can read just fine thank you. And I don't\nneed someone who is obviously having some troubles with a tongue which\nisn't his native one telling me how to read the words in my own native\ntongue. If it were Spanish, I'd ask you. \n\n\nYes, they are. As you well know.\n\n\nBalderdash. See above. Once again, you have a lot of gall and\nabsolutely no right to lecture a native speaker of a language, who is\nwell educated in it, in a language which isn't your own native tongue\nand with which you're obviously having problems.\n\n\nSocial life is one thing, legal status is another. Once again, this is\na leading question.\n\n\nFinal question: Is it possible to be both Jewish and Muslim? Jewish\nand Christian? Your response will be enlightening.\n\n", "THE DIVINE MASTERS \n \n Most Christians would agree, and correctly so, that \n Jesus Christ was a Divine Master, and a projection of God \n into the physical world, God Incarnate. \n \n But there are some very important related facts that \n Christians are COMPLETELY IGNORANT of, as are followers of \n most other world religions. \n \n First, Jesus Christ was NOT unique, John 3:16 NOTWITH-\n STANDING. There is ALWAYS at least one such Divine Master \n (God Incarnate) PHYSICALLY ALIVE in this world AT ALL TIMES, \n a continuous succession THROUGHOUT HISTORY, both before and \n after the life of Jesus. \n \n The followers of some of these Masters founded the \n world's major religions, usually PERVERTING the teachings of \n their Master in the process. Christians, for example, added \n THREATS of \"ETERNAL DAMNATION\" in Hell, and DELETED the \n teaching of REincarnation. \n \n Secondly, and more importantly, after a particular \n Master physically dies and leaves this world, there is \n NOTHING that He can do for ANYbody except for the relatively \n few people that He INITIATED while He was still PHYSICALLY \n alive. (THAT IS SIMPLY THE WAY GOD SET THINGS UP IN THE \n UNIVERSES.) \n\n Therefore, all those Christians who worship Jesus, and \n pray to Jesus, and expect Jesus to return and save them from \n their sins, are only KIDDING THEMSELVES, and have allowed \n themselves to be DUPED by a religion that was mostly \n MANUFACTURED by the Romans. \n \n And emotional \"feelings\" are a TOTALLY DECEIVING \n indicator for religious validity. \n \n These things are similarly true for followers of most \n other major world religions, including Islam. \n \n Thirdly, the primary function of each Master is to tune \n His Initiates into the \"AUDIBLE LIFE STREAM\" or \"SOUND \n CURRENT\", (referred to as \"THE WORD\" in John 1:1-5, and as \n \"The River of Life\" in Revelation 22:1), and to personally \n guide each of them thru the upper levels of Heaven while they \n are still connected to their living physical bodies by a \n \"silver cord\". \n \n True Salvation, which completes a Soul's cycles of \n REincarnation in the physical and psychic planes, is achieved \n only by reaching at least the \"SOUL PLANE\", which is five \n levels or universes above the physical universe, and this \n canNOT be done without the help of a PHYSICALLY-Living Divine \n Master. \n \n One such Divine Master alive today is an American, Sri \n Harold Klemp, the Living \"Eck\" Master or \"Mahanta\" for the \n \"Eckankar\" organization, now headquartered in Minneapolis, \n (P.O. Box 27300; zip 55427). \n \n Another Divine Master is Maharaj Gurinder Singh Ji, now \n living in Punjab, India, and is associated with the \"Sant \n Mat\" organization. \n \n One of the classic books on this subject is \"THE PATH OF \n THE MASTERS\" (Radha Soami Books, P.O. Box 242, Gardena, CA \n 90247), written in 1939 by Dr. Julian Johnson, a theologian \n and surgeon who spent the last years of his life in India \n studying under and closely observing the Sant Mat Master of \n that time, Maharaj Sawan Singh Ji. \n \n Several of the Eckankar books, including some authored \n by Sri Paul Twitchell or Sri Harold Klemp, can be found in \n most public and university libraries and some book stores, or \n obtained thru inter-library loan. The book \"ECKANKAR--THE \n KEY TO SECRET WORLDS\", by Sri Paul Twitchell, is ANOTHER \n classic. \n \n Many Christians are likely to confuse the Masters with \n the \"Anti-Christ\", which is or was to be a temporary world \n dictator during the so-called \"last days\". But the Masters \n don't ever rule, even when asked or expected to do so as \n Jesus was. \n \n People who continue following Christianity, Islam, or \n other orthodox religions with a physically-DEAD Master, will \n CONTINUE on their cycles of REincarnation, between the \n Psychic Planes and this MISERABLE physical world, until they \n finally accept Initiation from a PHYSICALLY-LIVING Divine \n Master. \n \n \n \n RE-INCARNATION\n \n The book \"HERE AND HEREAFTER\", by Ruth Montgomery, \n describes several kinds of evidence supporting REincarnation \n as a FACT OF LIFE, including HYPNOTIC REGRESSIONS to past \n lives [about 50% accurate; the subconscious mind sometimes \n makes things up, especially with a bad hypnotist], \n SPONTANEOUS RECALL (especially by young children, some of \n whom can identify their most recent previous relatives, \n homes, possessions, etc.), DREAM RECALL of past life experi-\n ences, DEJA VU (familiarity with a far off land while travel-\n ing there for the first time on vacation), the psychic read-\n ings of the late EDGAR CAYCE, and EVEN SUPPORTING STATEMENTS \n FROM THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE including Matthew 17:11-13 (John the \n Baptist was the REINCARNATION of Elias.) and John 9:1-2 (How \n can a person POSSIBLY sin before he is born, unless he LIVED \n BEFORE?!). [ ALWAYS use the \"KING JAMES VERSION\". Later \n versions are PER-VERSIONS! ] \n \n Strong INTERESTS, innate TALENTS, strong PHOBIAS, etc., \n typically originate from a person's PAST LIVES. For example, \n a strong fear of swimming in or traveling over water usually \n results from having DROWNED at the end of a PREVIOUS LIFE. \n And sometimes a person will take AN IMMEDIATE DISLIKE to \n another person being met for the first time in THIS life, \n because of a bad encounter with him during a PREVIOUS \n INCARNATION. \n\n The teaching of REincarnation also includes the LAW OF \n KARMA (Galatians 6:7, Revelation 13:10, etc.). People would \n behave much better toward each other if they knew that their \n actions in the present will surely be reaped by them in the \n future, or in a FUTURE INCARNATION! \n\n\n\n \"2nd COMINGS\"\n\n If a Divine Master physically dies (\"translates\") \n before a particular Initiate of His does, then when that \n Initiate physically dies (\"translates\"), the Master will meet \n him on the Astral level and take him directly to the Soul \n Plane. This is the ONE AND ONLY correct meaning of a 2nd \n Coming. It is an INDIVIDUAL experience, NOT something that \n happens for everyone all at once. People who are still \n waiting for Jesus' \"2nd Coming\" are WAITING IN VAIN. \n \n \n \n PLANES OF EXISTENCE\n\n The physical universe is the LOWEST of at least a DOZEN \n major levels of existence. Above the Physical Plane is the \n Astral Plane, the Causal Plane, the Mental Plane, the Etheric \n Plane (often counted as the upper part of the Mental Plane), \n the Soul Plane, and several higher Spiritual Planes. The \n Soul Plane is the FIRST TRUE HEAVEN, (counting upward from \n the Physical). The planes between (but NOT including) the \n Physical and Soul Planes are called the Psychic Planes. \n \n It is likely that ESP, telepathy, astrological \n influences, radionic effects, biological transmutations [See \n the 1972 book with that title.], and other phenomena without \n an apparent physical origin, result from INTERACTIONS between \n the Psychic Planes and the Physical Plane. \n \n The major planes are also SUB-DIVIDED. For example, a \n sub-plane of the Astral Plane is called \"Hades\", and the \n Christian Hell occupies a SMALL part of it, created there \n LESS THAN 2000 YEARS AGO by the EARLY CATHOLIC CHURCH by some \n kind of black magic or by simply teaching its existence in a \n THREATENING manner. The Christian \"Heaven\" is located \n elsewhere on the Astral Plane. Good Christians will go there \n for a short while and then REincarnate back to Earth. \n \n \n \n SOUND CURRENT vs. BLIND FAITH\n\n The Christian religion demands of its followers an \n extraordinary amount of BLIND FAITH backed up by little more \n than GOOD FEELING (which is TOTALLY DECEIVING). \n \n If a person is not HEARING some form of the \"SOUND \n CURRENT\" (\"THE WORD\", \"THE BANI\", \"THE AUDIBLE LIFE STREAM\"), \n then his cycles of REINCARNATION in this MISERABLE world WILL \n CONTINUE. \n \n The \"SOUND CURRENT\" manifests differently for different \n Initiates, and can sound like a rushing wind, ocean waves on \n the sea shore, buzzing bees, higher-pitched buzzing sound, a \n flute, various heavenly music, or other sounds. In Eckankar, \n Members start hearing it near the end of their first year as \n a Member. This and other experiences (such as \"SOUL TRAVEL\") \n REPLACE blind faith. \n \n\n\n For more information, answers to your questions, etc., \n please consult my CITED SOURCES (3 books, 2 addresses). \n\n\n\n UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this \n IMPORTANT Information is ENCOURAGED. \n", "\n[a lot of stuff deleted -- i'm focusing on just one point]\n\ni'm a little confused about the difference between this \"weak atheism\",\nas you put it, and agnosticism. is agnosticism not believing or\nnecessarily disbelieving in anything, or what is it? i used to be\nagnostic (by this definition) -- but if weak atheism includes not\nnecessarily believing in God, then i guess i was one of those. ???\n\nactually what i have a hard time understanding is people who do not\never decide what they believe. i am constantly in a state of\nself-examination, as it would appear many others are as well (including the\natheists, of course -- i'd assume that's why they're here!). i guess\nsome people don't really consider it important to think about the\nanswers to \"life, the universe and everything\" -- any comment? just\nwondering....\n\n\ntough call, as these things seem to be based on faith -- wish i could\nhelp you, but i already tried once with someone who was a\nself-professed agnostic-thinking-of-becoming-a -christian, and it\ndidn't work too well! especially tough as i'm still mulling over\nwhether or not i believe in miracles (looks like another email to my\nchaplain is coming up....). all i can do is wish you the best of\nluck, and please do post what you find.\n\n\nhmm, how so? i guess i really don't understand. there are times, of\ncourse, when i say to myself \"of course i have absolutely no way of\nknowing that what i believe in is true except the satisfaction and\nsense of peace i get from it -- which of course could just be\npsychological\". somehow i live with this anyway -- is this what you\nmean?\n\nthe only \"proof\" i have is that i believe God spoke to me once --\nwhich could of course be my own imagination. the odd thing is,\nthough, that if you don't at some point start believing in something,\nafter a while it all gets sort of ridiculous. maybe it's just a\nquestion of where you draw the line.\n\n\ni'll only add one question -- have you read pascal? what did you\nthink of him if you did?\n\nalso you may (or may not) be interested by cslewis/ _surprised by\njoy_. i'd be interested in knowing what you think of him, no sarcasm\nat all intended. (i just say this because one can never know how\none's written words will be interpreted. i am not interested in\nconverting you, since i don't seem to have whatever it would take --\nproof -- to do so. i'm just interested in learning.)\n\n\ni like this.\n", "\nSorry, but it doesn't matter what _you_ think, I am a Christian, who happens to\nbelong to the LDS Church. [The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints].\n\nI don't usually read t.r.m. It is truly informative to stop by, and see that there\nare still people in the world like those that forced my ancestors into the deserts\nof Utah, and then out of the country entirely. (My grandmother was born in Mexico,\nwhere her family had moved to escape religious persecution in the US). I'm willing\nto admit that members of other churches are Christians, if they believe in Christ and\n(try to) follow his teachings, even though they have different interpretations of \nthe bible. And yet these other churches often go out of their way to define whether\nor not I am considered to be Christian. Could someone mail me a set of rules/beliefs\nthat must be followed to be a Christian? Does this set of rules exclude other large\nbodies of believers? \n\nI know, this is a waste of everyone's time, this has probably been discussed N times,\netc. I guess I'm more sensitive to this 'demonization' after what went on in Texas.", "See, I told you there was an atheist mythology, thanks for proving my\npoint.", "\n\n\n\nWell, I think that most Christians believe that your conciousness will\nsomehow continue on after your 'physical' death, which contradicts what\nmost atheists (myself included) believe, namely that your conciousness,\nbeing contained in your brain, dies when your brain dies.\n\n\nI fear the pain that often comes with the process of dying, but since I\nwon't be around to worry about it, I don't fear eternal death.\n\n\nThis is something I've always found confusing. If all your nerve endings\ndie with your physical body, why would flame hurt you? How can one \"wail\nand gnash teeth\" with no lungs and no teeth?\n", "\nIt amazes me that you have the audacity to say that human creation was not\nthe result of the natural process of evolution (but rather an \"act of God\")\nand then in the same post say that these other processes (volcanos et al.)\nare natural occurrences. Who gave YOU the right to choose what things are\nnatural processes and what are direct acts of God? How do you know that\nGod doesn't cause each and every natural disaster with a specific purpose\nin mind? It would certainly go along with the sadistic nature I've seen in\nthe bible.\n\n\nAdam & Eve (TWO PEOPLE), even tho they had the honor (or so you christians\nclaim) of being the first two, definitely do NOT represent a majority in\nthe billions and trillions (probably more) of people that have come after\nthem. Perhaps they were the majority then, but *I* (and YOU) weren't\naround to vote, and perhaps we might have voted differently about what to\ndo with that tree. But your god never asked us. He just assumes that if\nyou have two bad people then they ALL must be bad. Hmm. Sounds like the\nsame kind of false generalization that I see many of the theists posting\nhere resorting to. So THAT's where they get it... shoulda known.\n\n\nNanci", "I have come across what I consider to be an excellent tract. It is a\nbit lengthy for a posting, but I thought I'd share it with all of you\nanyway. Feel free to pass it along to anyone whom you feel might\nbenefit from what it says. May God richly bless those who read it.\n \n=======================================================================\n \n D O E S G O D L O V E Y O U ?\n \n \nQ. What kind of question is that? Anyone who can read sees signs,\n tracts, books, and bumper stickers that say, \"God Loves You.\" Isn't\n that true?\n \nA. It is true that God offers His love to the whole world, as we read\n in one of the most quoted verses in the Bible:\n \n For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten\n Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but\n have everlasting life. John 3:16\n \n \n The way of the wicked is an abomination unto the LORD: but he\n loveth him that followeth after righteousness. Proverbs 15:9\n \n For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of\n the ungodly shall perish. Psalm 1:6\n \n \nQ. But I am not wicked. I am a decent, moral person. Surely the good\n I have done in my life far outweighs whatever bad I have done. How\n can these verses apply to me?\n \nA. By God's standard of righteousness even the most moral person is\n looked upon by God as a desperate sinner on his way to Hell. The\n Bible teaches that no one is good enough in himself to go to Heaven.\n On the contrary, we are all sinners and we are all guilty before\n God.\n \n As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There\n is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after\n God. Romans 3:10-11\n \n The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately\n wicked: who can know it? Jeremiah 17:9\n \n \nQ. If I am such a wicked person in God's sight, what will God do to me?\n \nA. The Bible teaches that at the end of the world all the wicked will\n come under eternal punishment in a place called Hell.\n \n For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the\n lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase,\n and set on fire the foundations of the mountains. I will heap\n mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them. They\n shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat,\n and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of\n beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust.\n Deuteronomy 32:22-24\n \n \nQ. Oh, come on now! Hell is not real, is it? Surely things are not\n that bad.\n \nA. Indeed, Hell is very real, and things are that bad for the individ-\n ual who does not know the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior. The Bible\n makes many references to Hell, indicating that it is both eternal\n and consists of perpetual suffering.\n \n And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was\n cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:15\n \n So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come\n forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall\n cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and\n gnashing of teeth. Matthew 13:49-50\n \n ... when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with\n his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them\n that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord\n Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting\n destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory\n of his power; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9\n \n \nQ. That is terrible! Why would God create a Hell?\n \nA. Hell is terrible, and it exists because God created man to be\n accountable to God for his actions. God's perfect justice demands\n payment for sin.\n \n For the wages of sin is death; Romans 6:23\n \n For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ;\n that every one may receive the things done in his body,\n according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.\n 2 Corinthians 5:10\n \n But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak,\n they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.\n Matthew 12:36\n \n \nQ. Does that mean that at the end of the world everyone will be brought\n to life again to be judged and then to be sent to Hell?\n \nA. Indeed it does; that is, unless we can find someone to be our\n substitute in bearing the punishment of eternal damnation for our\n sins. That someone is God Himself, who came to earth as Jesus\n Christ to bear the wrath of God for all who believe in Him.\n \n All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one\n to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of\n us all. Isaiah 53:6\n \n But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for\n our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him;\n and with his stripes we are healed. Isaiah 53:5\n \n For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also\n received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the\n scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the\n third day according to the scriptures: 1 Corinthians 15:3-4\n \n For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that\n we might be made the righteousness of God in him.\n 2 Corinthians 5:21\n \n \nQ. Are you saying that if I trust in Christ as my substitute, Who was\n already punished for my sins, then I will not have to worry about\n Hell anymore?\n \nA. Yes, this is so! If I have believed in Christ as my Savior, then it\n is as if I have already stood before the Judgment Throne of God.\n Christ as my substitute has already paid for my sins.\n \n He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he\n that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath\n of God abideth on him. John 3:36\n \n \nQ. But what does it mean to believe on Him? If I agree with all that\n the Bible says about Christ as Savior, then am I saved from going to\n Hell?\n \nA. Believing on Christ means a whole lot more than agreeing in our\n minds with the truths of the Bible. It means that we hang our whole\n lives on Him. It means that we entrust every part of our lives to\n the truths of the Bible. It means that we turn away from our sins\n and serve Christ as our Lord.\n \n No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one,\n and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and\n despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.\n Matthew 6:24\n \n Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be\n blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the\n presence of the Lord; Acts 3:19\n \n \nQ. Are you saying that there is no other way to escape Hell except\n through Jesus? What about all the other religions? Will their\n followers also go to Hell?\n \nA. Yes, indeed. They cannot escape the fact that God holds us account-\n able for our sins. God demands that we pay for our sins. Other\n religions cannot provide a substitute to bear the sins of their\n followers. Christ is the only one who is able to bear our guilt and\n save us.\n \n Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none\n other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be\n saved. Acts 4:12\n \n \n I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the\n Father, but by me. John 14:6\n \n If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us\n our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.\n 1 John 1:9\n \n \nQ. Now I am desperate. I do not want to go to Hell. What can I do?\n \nA. You must remember that God is the only one who can help you. You\n must throw yourself altogether on the mercies of God. As you see\n your hopeless condition as a sinner, cry out to God to save you.\n \n And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much\n as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying,\n God be merciful to me a sinner. Luke 18:13\n \n ... Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe\n on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, ...\n Acts 16:30-31\n \n \nQ. But how can I believe on Christ if I know so little about Him?\n \nA. Wonderfully, God not only saves us through the Lord Jesus, but He\n also gives us the faith to believe on Him. You can pray to God that\n He will give you faith in Jesus Christ as your Savior.\n \n For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of\n yourselves: it is the gift of God: Ephesians 2:8\n \n God works particularly through the Bible to give us that faith. So,\n if you really mean business with God about your salvation, you\n should use every opportunity to hear and study the Bible, which is\n the only Word of God.\n In this brochure, all verses from the Bible are within indented\n paragraphs. Give heed to them with all your heart.\n \n So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of\n God. Romans 10:17\n \n \nQ. But does this mean that I have to surrender everything to God?\n \nA. Yes. God wants us to come to Him in total humility, acknowledging\n our sinfulness and our helplessness, trusting totally in Him.\n \n The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a\n contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise. Psalm 51:17\n \n Because we are sinners we love our sins. Therefore, we must begin\n to pray to God for an intense hatred of our sins. And if we\n sincerely desire salvation, we will also begin to turn from our sins\n as God strengthens us. We know that our sins are sending us to\n Hell.\n \n Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him\n to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his\n iniquities. Acts 3:26\n \n \nQ. Doesn't the Bible teach that I must attend church regularly and be\n baptized? Will these save me?\n \nA. If possible, we should do these things, but they will not save us.\n No work of any kind can secure our salvation. Salvation is God's\n sovereign gift of grace given according to His mercy and good pleas-\n ure. Salvation is\n \n Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:9\n \n \nQ. What else will happen at the end of the world?\n \nA. Those who have trusted in Jesus as their Savior will be transformed\n into their glorious eternal bodies and will be with Christ forever-\n more.\n \n For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout,\n with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:\n and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are\n alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the\n clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be\n with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17\n \n \nQ. What will happen to the earth at that time?\n \nA. God will destroy the entire universe by fire and create new heavens\n and a new earth where Christ will reign with His believers forever-\n more.\n \n But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in\n the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and\n the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and\n the works that are therein shall be burned up. ...\n Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new\n heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.\n 2 Peter 3:10,13\n \n \nQ. Does the Bible give us any idea of when the end of the earth will\n come?\n \nA. Yes! The end will come when Christ has saved all whom He plans to\n save.\n \n And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the\n world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end\n come. Matthew 24:14\n \n \nQ. Can we know how close to the end of the world we might be?\n \nA. Yes! God gives much information in the Bible concerning the timing\n of the history of the world and tells us that while the Day of the\n Lord will come as a thief in the night for the unsaved, it will not\n come as a thief for the believers. There is much evidence in the\n Bible that the end of the world and the return of Christ may be\n very, very close.* All the time clues in the Bible point to this.\n \n For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden\n destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with\n child; and they shall not escape. 1 Thessalonians 5:3\n \n Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his\n secret unto his servants the prophets. Amos 3:7\n \n \nQ. But that means Judgment Day is almost here.\n \nA. Yes, it does. God warned ancient Nineveh that He was going to\n destroy that great city and He gave them forty days warning.\n \n And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he\n cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be\n overthrown. Jonah 3:4\n \n \nQ. What did the people of Nineveh do?\n \nA. From the king on down they humbled themselves before God, repented\n of their sins, and cried to God for mercy.\n \n But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry\n mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil\n way, and from the violence that is in their hands. Who can\n tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his\n fierce anger, that we perish not? Jonah 3:8-9\n \n \nQ. Did God hear their prayers?\n \nA. Yes. God saved a great many people of Nineveh.\n \n \nQ. Can I still cry to God for mercy so that I will not come into judg-\n ment?\n \nA. Yes. There is still time to become saved even though that time has\n become very short.\n \n How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which\n at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed\n unto us by them that heard him; Hebrews 2:3\n \n In God is my salvation and my glory: the rock of my strength,\n and my refuge, is in God. Trust in him at all times; ye\n people, pour out your heart before him: God is a refuge for\n us. Psalm 62:7-8\n \n \n \n \n A R E Y O U R E A D Y T O M E E T G O D ?\n \n \n \nA book entitled 1994?, written by Harold Camping, presents Biblical\ninformation that we may be very near the end of time. For information\non how to obtain a copy or to receive a free program guide and list of\nradio stations on which you can hear our Gospel programs, please write\nto Family Radio, Oakland, California, 94621 (The United States of Amer-\nica), or call 1-800-543-1495.\n \n ----------------------------------------\n \n \nThe foregoing is a copy of the \"Does God Love You?\" tract printed by,\nand available free of charge from, Family Radio. A number of minor\nchanges have been made to its layout to facilitate computer printing\nand distribution. The only change to the text itself is the paragraph\nwhich describes the way in which Biblical passages appear within the\ntext. In the original tract they appear in italic lettering; they\nappear here as indented paragraphs.\n \n \nI have read Mr. Camping's book, compared it with what the Bible actual-\nly says, find it to be the most credible research with respect to what\nthe future holds that I have ever come across, and agree with him that\nthere is just too much data to ignore. While none of us is guaranteed\none more second of life, and while we, therefore, should take these\nmatters very seriously regardless of when Christ will actually return,\nit would appear that our natural tendency to postpone caring about our\neternal destiny until we feel that our death is imminent is even more\nsenseless now because, in all likelihood, the law of averages with\nrespect to life expectancy no longer applies. If you wish to obtain a\ncopy of this book so that you can check out these facts for yourself,\nyou may find the following information helpful:\n \n title: 1994?\n author: Harold Camping\n publisher: Vantage Press\n distributor: Baker and Taylor\n ISBN: 0-533-10368-1\n \n \nI have chosen to share this tract with you because I whole-heartedly\nagree with everything it declares and feel that now, perhaps more than\never before, this information must be made known. To paraphrase Acts\n20:27, it does not shun to declare unto us all the counsel of God. I\nam always willing to discuss the eternal truths of the Bible with\nanyone who is interested as I believe them to be the only issues of any\nreal importance since we will spend, comparatively speaking, so little\ntime on this side of the grave and so much on the other. Feel free to\nget in touch with me at any time:\n \n e-mail: davem@bnr.ca\n office: 1-613-765-4671\n home: 1-613-726-0014", "\nThe analogy does not depend on the premisses being true, because the \nquestion under discussion is not truth but arrogance. \n\nA similar analogy might be a medical doctor who believes that a blood \ntransfusion is necessary to save the life of a child whose parents are \nJehovah's Witnesses and so have conscientious objections to blood \ntransfusion. The doctor's efforts to persuade them to agree to a blood \ntransfusion could be perceived to be arrogant in precisely the same way as \nChristians could be perceived to be arrogant.\n\nThe truth or otherwise of the belief that a blood transfusion is necessary \nto save the life of the child is irrelevant here. What matters is that the \ndoctor BELIEVES it to be true, and could be seen to be trying to foce his \nbeliefs on the parents, and this could well be perceived as arrogance.", "In a post of 29 April (?), considering disasters as instances of the\njudgements of God in history, Andy Byler spoke of\n\n > the desire of the Jerusalem mob who crucified the Lord that\n > \"His blood be upon us.\"\n\nVera Noyes replied (02 May),\n\n > I will not comment here for fear of being heavily flamed.\n\nI invite them both (and other interested parties as well) to read my\ncomments on this verse of Scripture. To obtain them, send the\nmessage GET CHOOSING BARABBAS to LISTSERV@ASUACAD.BITNET or to\nLISTSERV@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU. Putting it briefly, I think that the\nsignificance of the demands of the Jerusalem crowd has usually been\ngreatly misunderstood, both by Christian and by anti-Christian\nreaders.\n\n Yours,\n James Kiefer", "-*----\nSci.med removed from followups. (And I do not read any of the\nother newsgroups.)\n\n-*----\n\nThat's fine. These words have multiple meanings.\n\nAs a self-proclaimed atheist, I believe that *some* conceptions\nof god are inconsistent or in conflict with fact, and I lack\nbelief in other conceptions of god merely because there is no\nreason for me to believe in these. I usually use the word\nagnostic to mean someone who believes that the existence of\na god is unknown inherently unknowable. Note that this is a\npositive belief that is quite different from not believing in a\ngod; I do not believe in a god, but I also do not believe the\nagnostic claim.", ": > \t I'm a commited Christian that is battling with a problem. I know\n: > that romans talks about how we are saved by our faith not our deeds, yet\n: > hebrews and james say that faith without deeds is useless, saying' You fools,\n: > do you still think that just believing is enough?'\n: \n: [Stuff deleted]\n: \n: > Now I am of the opinion that you a saved through faith alone (not what you do)\n: > as taught in Romans, but how can I square up in my mind the teachings of James\n: > in conjunction with the lukewarm Christian being 'spat-out'\n: > \n: > Can anyone help me, this really bothers me.\n: \n\nI have received tons of mail from people replying to this article I wrote, and\nI would just like to thank everyone who took the time to give me a hand. It\nhas indeed helped me and re-affirmed alot of theories that I held but was a\nlittle unsure about.\n\nGod bless you all\n\nWill ", "\nHaving met Peter Kingston (of WBT) some years back, he struck me \nas an exemplery and dedicated Christian whose main concern was with\ntranslation of the Word of God and the welfare of the people\ngroup he was serving.\nWBT literature is concerned mainly with providing Scripture\nin minority languages.\n\nThe sort of criticism leveled at an organisation such as this\nalong the lines of \"ideological manipulation and cultural\ninterference\" is probably no more than Christianising and\neducation - in this WBT will stand alongside the early Christian\nmissionaries to parts of Africa, or those groups who worked\namong native Americans a couple hundred years ago.\n\nI think you need to substantiate these attacks as being a\nlegitimate criticism of priorities other than spreading the\ngospel among underdeveloped people.", "The following is a survey we are conducting for a term project in a philosophy\nclass. It is not meant to give us anything interesting statistically; we want\nto hear what kind of voices there are out there. We are not asking for full-\nblown essays, but please give us what you can.\n\nAs I do not read these groups often, please email all responses to me at\nshimpei@leland.stanford.edu. As my mail account is not infinite, if you can\ndelete the questions and just have numbered answers when you write back\nI would really appreciate it.\n\nSince we would like to start analyzing the result as soon as possible, we\nwould like to have the answers by April 30. If you absolutely cannot make\nit by then, though, we would still liken to hear your answer.\n\nIf anyone is interested in our final project please send a note to that effect\nwould like to have the answers by April 30. If you absolutely cannot make\nit by then, though, we would still like to hear your answer.\n\nIf anyone is interested in our final project please send a note to that effect\n(or better yet, include a note along with your survey response) and I'll try\nto email it to you, probably in late May.\n\nSURVEY:\n\nQuestion 1)\nHave you ever had trouble reconciling faith and reason? If so, what was the\ntrouble?\n(For example: -Have you ever been unsure whether Creationism or Evolutionism\n holds more truth?\n -Do you practice tarot cards, palm readings, or divination that\n conflicts with your scientific knowledge of the world?\n -Does your religion require you to ignore physical realities that\n you have seen for yourself or makes logical sense to you?)\nBasically, we would like to know if you ever _BELIEVED_ in something that your\n_REASON_tells you is wrong.\n\nQuestion 2)\nIf you have had conflict, how did/do you resolve the conflict?\n\nQuestion 3)\nIf you haven't had trouble, why do you think you haven't? Is there a set of\nguidelines you use for solving these problems?\n\nThank you very much for your time.\n\n\n\n\n-- \nShimpei Yamashita, Stanford University email:shimpei@leland.stanford.edu\n \"There are three kinds of mathematicians: \n those who can count and those who can't.\"", "-*----\n\nFar from being \"tossed out,\" the gospels are taken, almost\nuniversally, as the primary source of information about Jesus.\nI am curious as to whom Mike Cobb is referring. Who \"tosses out\"\nthe New Testament? Undoubtedly a few *naive* atheists do this,\nbut the phrasing of the question above seems to suggest that Cobb\nascribes this more broadly.\n\nPerhaps the question that gets more to the heart of the matter is\nwhy, except for some *naive* believers (who, unfortunately, far\noutnumber nonbelievers, both naive and critical), are the gospels\n*not* taken as \"gospel truth\" that faithfully records just what\nhappened two thousand years ago? This has an easy answer, and\nthe answer has *nothing* to do with miracles: no text is taken\nthis way by a critical reader.\n\nThere is a myth among some naive believers that one takes a text,\nmeasures it by some set of criteria, and then either confirms the\ntext as \"historically valid\" or \"tosses out\" the text. I suspect\nthis myth comes from the way history is presented in primary and\nsecondary school, where certain texts are vested with authority,\nand from writers such as Josh McDowell who pretend to present\nhistorical arguments along these lines for their religious\nprogram. In fact, most texts used in primary and secondary\nschool history classes ought to be tossed out, even the better\nsuch texts should not be treated as authoritatively as descibed\nabove, and Josh McDowell would not know a historical argument if\nit bit him on the keister twice.\n\nLet me present the barest outlines of a different view of texts\nand their use in studying history. First, all texts are\nhistorically valid. ALL texts. Or to put this another way, I\nhave never seen a notion of \"historical validity\" that makes any\nsense when applied to a text. Second, no text should be read as\ntelling the \"gospel truth\" about historical events, in the way\nthat many students are wont to read history texts in primary and\nsecondary school. NO text. (This includes your favorite\nauthor's history of whatever.)\n\nEvery text is a historical fact. Every text was written by some\nperson (or some group of people) for some purpose. Hence, every\ntext can serve as historical evidence. The question is: what can\nwe learn from a text? Of what interesting things (if any) does\nthe text provide evidence?\n\nThe diaries of the followers of the Maharishi, formerly of\nOregon, are historical evidence. The gospels are historical\nevidence. The letters of the officers who participated in the \nvampire inquests in Eastern Europe are historical evidence. The\nmodern American history textbooks that whitewash \"great American\nfigures\" are historical evidence. These are all historical\nevidence of various things. They are *not* much evidence at all\nthat the Maharishi, formerly of Oregon, could levitate; that\nJesus was resurrected; that vampires exist; or that \"great\nAmerican figures\" are as squeaky clean as we learned in school.\nThey are better evidence that some people \"saw\" the Maharishi,\nlate of Oregon, levitate; that some of the early Christians\nthought Jesus was resurrected; that many people in Eastern Europe\n\"saw\" vampires return from the grave; and that we still have an\neducational system that largely prefers to spread myth rather\nthan teach history.\n\nHow does one draw causal connections and infer what a piece of\nhistorical evidence -- text or otherwise -- evinces? This is a\nvery complex question that has no easily summarized answer.\nThere are many books on the subject or various parts of the\nsubject. I enjoy David Hackett Fischer's \"Historian's Fallacies\"\nas a good antidote to the uncritical way in which it is so easy\nto read texts present history. It's relatively cheap. It's easy\nto read. Give it a try.", "\n\nAndrew,\n\n How I wish this were true, and how I long for the day in which it will\nbe true. But alas, it is not true of history. The Bible does not have a \nmessage -- it has messages. And some of those are messages of repentance and\ngiving, to turn the other cheek, and do unto the least of these. But some\nof the messages are the complete opposite. Like the isrealites order to \nwipe out other tribes including women and children down to cattle, and \npunished severely when they were less than complete about the job. Like\njews who are said to have cried out in Matthew, \"His blood be upon our heads\nand our childrens heads\" A verse quoted in every pogrom from the crusades to\nthe holocaust. Have these been misunderstood? I think not. They have only\nbeen understood too clearly. It is essential that christians grasp firmly\nthe good the bible teaches, the meek carpenter from Nazareth is a potent \nsymbol for how we should be, his teachings we must take to heart, but we\ncannot ignore the other material in the bible which is not to our liking and\nsay those who live by that have misread it. To say that is only to chose a\npoint of interpretation and declare it normative. Such can be done with the\nsame legitmacy by anyone. Instead we must let the text critique the text.\nUnderstanding that there is both good and bad in our sacred corpus, we test\nall things and hold fast to that which is good. \n\nAt the risk of sounding heretical (well ok, more heretical) I don't think\nthat doubt is something which requires forgiveness, it is something which\nrequires introspection and reflection. If that is a sin, then there can\nbe no salvation, for doubt is an inescapble part of being human. Consider\nJob. His friends had no doubt. Whereas Job had no doubt in himself but\ndoubted the wisdom and justice of God. When God finally did appear he \nrebuked the friends and had job make sacrifices for them. To be a Christian\nit to always have doubt, or not to have honesty.", "Archive-name: atheism/overview\nAlt-atheism-archive-name: overview\nLast-modified: 5 April 1993\nVersion: 1.2\n\n Overview\n\nWelcome to alt.atheism and alt.atheism.moderated.\n\nThis is the first in a series of regular postings aimed at new readers of the\nnewsgroups.\n\nMany groups of a 'controversial' nature have noticed that new readers often\ncome up with the same questions, mis-statements or misconceptions and post\nthem to the net. In addition, people often request information which has\nbeen posted time and time again. In order to try and cut down on this, the\nalt.atheism groups have a series of five regular postings under the following\ntitles:\n\n 1. Alt.Atheism FAQ: Overview for New Readers\n 2. Alt.Atheism FAQ: Introduction to Atheism\n 3. Alt.Atheism FAQ: Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)\n 4. Alt.Atheism FAQ: Constructing a Logical Argument\n 5. Alt.Atheism FAQ: Atheist Resources\n\nThis is article number 1. Please read numbers 2 and 3 before posting. The\nothers are entirely optional.\n\nIf you are new to Usenet, you may also find it helpful to read the newsgroup\nnews.announce.newusers. The articles titled \"A Primer on How to Work With\nthe Usenet Community\", \"Answers to Frequently Asked Questions about Usenet\"\nand \"Hints on writing style for Usenet\" are particularly relevant. Questions\nconcerning how news works are best asked in news.newusers.questions.\n\nIf you are unable to find any of the articles listed above, see the \"Finding\nStuff\" section below.\n\n\n Credits\n\nThese files could not have been written without the assistance of the many\nreaders of alt.atheism and alt.atheism.moderated. In particular, I'd like to\nthank the following people:\n\nkck+@cs.cmu.edu (Karl Kluge)\nperry@dsinc.com (Jim Perry)\nNETOPRWA@ncsuvm.cc.ncsu.edu (Wayne Aiken)\nchpetk@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Toby Kelsey)\njkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)\ngeoff.arnold@East.Sun.COM (Geoff Arnold)\ntorkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen)\nkmldorf@utdallas.edu (George Kimeldorf)\nroe2@quads.uchicago.edu (Greg Roelofs)\narromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)\nmadhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann)\nJ5J@psuvm.psu.edu (John A. Johnson)\ndgraham@bmers30.bnr.ca (Douglas Graham)\nmayne@open.cs.fsu.edu (William Mayne)\najr@bigbird.hri.com (Andy Rosen)\nstoesser@ira.uka.de (Achim Stoesser)\nbosullvn@unix1.tcd.ie (Bryan O'Sullivan)\nlippard@ccit.arizona.edu (James J. Lippard)\ns1b3832@rigel.tamu.edu (S. Baum)\nydobyns@phoenix.princeton.edu (York H. Dobyns)\nschroede@sdsc.edu (Wayne Schroeder)\nbaldwin@csservera.usna.navy.mil (J.D. Baldwin)\nD_NIBBY@unhh.unh.edu (Dana Nibby)\ndempsey@Kodak.COM (Richard C. Dempsey)\njmunch@hertz,elee.calpoly.edu (John David Munch)\npdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley)\nrz@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Richard Zach)\ntycchow@math.mit.edu (Tim Chow)\nsimon@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Simon Clippingdale)\n\n...and countless others I've forgotten.\n\nThese articles are free. Truly free. You may copy them and distribute them\nto anyone you wish. However, please send any changes or corrections to the\nauthor, and please do not re-post copies of the articles to alt.atheism; it\ndoes nobody any good to have multiple versions of the same document floating\naround the network.\n\n\n Finding Stuff\n\nAll of the FAQ files *should* be somewhere on your news system. Here are\nsome suggestions on what to do if you can't find them:\n\n1. Check the newsgroup alt.atheism. Look for subject lines starting with\n \"Alt.Atheism FAQ:\".\n\n2. Check the newsgroup news.answers for the same subject lines.\n\n If you don't find anything in steps 1 or 2, your news system isn't set up\n correctly, and you may wish to tell your system administrator about the\n problem.\n\n3. If you have anonymous FTP access, connect to rtfm.mit.edu [18.172.1.27].\n Go to the directory /pub/usenet/alt.atheism, and you'll find the latest\n versions of the FAQ files there.\n\n FTP is a a way of copying files between networked computers. If you\n need help in using or getting started with FTP, send e-mail to\n mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu with\n\n send usenet/news.answers/ftp-list/faq\n\n in the body.\n\n4. There are other sites which also carry news.answers postings. The article\n \"Introduction to the news.answers newsgroup\" carries a list of these\n sites; the article is posted regularly to news.answers.\n\n5. If you don't have FTP, send mail to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu\n consisting of the following lines:\n\n send usenet/news.answers/finding-sources\n send usenet/alt.atheism/faq\n send usenet/alt.atheism/introduction\n send usenet/alt.atheism/logic\n send usenet/alt.atheism/resources\n\n5. (Penultimate resort) Send mail to mail-server@mantis.co.uk consisting of\n the following lines:\n\n send atheism/faq/faq.txt\n send atheism/faq/logic.txt\n send atheism/faq/intro.txt\n send atheism/faq/resource.txt\n\n and our poor overworked modems will try and send you a copy of the files.\n There's other stuff, too; interesting commands to try are \"help\" and\n \"send atheism/index\".\n\n6. (Last resort) Mail mathew@mantis.co.uk, or post an article to the\n newsgroup asking how you can get the FAQ files. You should only do this\n if you've tried the above methods and they've failed; it's not nice to\n clutter the newsgroup or people's mailboxes with requests for files.\n it's better than posting without reading the FAQ, though! For instance,\n people whose email addresses get mangled in transit and who don't have \n FTP will probably need assistance obtaining the FAQ files.\n", "My girlfriend is a smoker. She has been addicted to it for quite some time.\nShe has been tried a couple of times, but then always get back to it. Her \nbackground is non-Christian, but she's interested in Christianity. I'm a\nChristian and non-smoker.\n\nI would like to collect any personal stories from Christians who managed to \nquit. I hope that this will encourage her to keep on trying. If anybody ever \nhad a similar problem or knows a good book on it, pls reply by email. \n\nI appreciate any kinds of helps. Thanks a lot.", "\nI noticed this dead horse in your Keywords line. Is this the famous scarlet horse\nof Babylon that the Beast (that's 666 for you illuminatti) rides on in those\nwonderful mediaeval manuscripts. If so, I fear your announcement that the old\ngirl is dead may be premature. I bet $20 on her to place in the 6th race at The\nDowns last Sunday, and she slid in a bad fifth. So she is not dead. She is just\ncomatose. (like god that way, I suppose).\n\nNinja Gourmet\nWill fight for food.\u001b \n", "Jesus:\n\n\n\n\nBlack and white. A spade is a spade. There is no hidden\nagenda behind this, so stop trying to look for one. It is an\neasy and as straight forward as it reads.\n\nKent, I am not accusing you of evil things. Jesus is accusing you.\nAnd it is not only you that He is accusing. He is accusing everyone.\nMe, you and everyone in the world is guilty. Whether one\nsees the light or does not seen the light has nothing to do with \nwhether we do evil things. We do them regardless. \n\nJesus uses the word \"men\". I am included. Jesus is not soloing you out.\nJesus is making a general statement about out the sad state of man.\nChristians are not immuned from doing evil things. A Christian \nis just a person in whom the Holy Spirit indwells. A Christian \ncan see the evil he is doing--because his evil has been brought\nout into the light. Jesus is not saying that just because evil has been\nexposed, that the Christian will stop doing evil. If you haven't\nseen Jesus's light, your evil deeds simply haven't been\nexposed to the His light. You may shed some light on your\nown. Your human spirit shines at perhaps 1 candela. But the\nHoly Spirit shines at a Megacandela. The Holy Spirit can\nshine light into places inside us where we didn't even know\nexisted. \n\nSo do you see Jesus's point? Christians are not perfect. Nonchristians\nare not perfect. Nonchristians do not want to come into the\nLight of Jesus because they will see all the problems in their lives,\nand they will not like the sight. It is an ugly thing to see how far\nwe have fallen from Jesus's perspective. Do you think you want to\nknow how really ignorant you are? Do you think Brian Kendig wants\nto know? Do you think I want to know? Ego verses the truth,\nwhich do you choose?\n\n\nAnd I watched Koresh too, an imposter who thought he saw the light, \nwho made sure that the 19 children burned to death, sadly, as part\nof his delusion. It is even sadder that the people who\ndied with him chose to die with them, and that ignorance was\ntheir downfall to death. \n\nAnd Kent, don't you bury yourself underneath a rock with an\nexcuse like bringing up Koresh--as if Koresh actually had truth in him.\nDavid Koresh was no light and no excuse for\nyou to stay away from the real Jesus Christ. David Koresh, who\nclaimed to be Jesus, was a fraud. It was obvious. David Koresh\nwas born in America. Jesus was born in Bethlehem. Koresh wasn't\neven a good imposter having missed an obvious point as that.\n\nJesus warned of such imposters in the end-times. David\nKoresh wasn't anything new to Jesus. Jesus told us to be\naware of imposters 2000 years ago. \n\nSo the next time an imposter makes a scene and claims to\nbe Jesus. Ask the obvious. Where were you born? Was your\nmother's name Mary? If the Branch Davidians asked that\nsimple question, they would have labeled Koresh a liar\nright from the start. The wouldn't have followed Koresh.\nThey wouldn't have died. But look what happened. Their\nignorance cost them their lives. Their choice to be ignorant\ncost them a lot.\n\nKent, since you studied the Bible under Lutheranism, do you\nnot remember what tactic Satan used to try to tempt Jesus? \nDid not Satan quote the Bible out of context? Do you\nremember what tactic the serpent of Genesis used to tempt\nEve? Did he not misquote God? What Satan used on Eve and succeeded, \nwas the same ploy he tried on Jesus. But in Jesus's case,\nJesus rebuked Satan back with the Bible _in_ context. It\ndidn't work with Jesus. \n\nDoes what Satan did to Eve in the Garden and what Satan\ntried to do with Jesus in the desert remind you of what\nKoresh did to his followers? Who did Koresh emulate?\nWho was Koresh's teacher? Koresh did to his followers what\nSatan did to Eve. Did not Koresh kill his followersr? Did\nnot Satan cause Adam and Eve to die as well? Did not\nthe cult followers believe Koresh even though they knew\nthe real Christ was born in Bethlehem? Did not Eve\nchoose to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and\nevil despite knowing that it would cause her death? God\nheld them all responsible--deceiver and the rebeller. None \nof them had an excuse. ", "\n\nHey, Clayton, it's me again! I just love your arguments. They completely\nclinch each and _every_ one of your points!\n\nBut then again, that, I suppose, says a lot about how screwed up your are.\n\nHehe. I haven't had so much fun since I started blasting christians in alt.atheism!\n\n\n\n", "\n\nThis is an excellent question and I'll be anxious to see if there are\nany such cases. I doubt it. In the medieval period (esp. 10th-cent.\nwhen Aquinas flourished) argument was a useful tool because everyone\n\"knew the rules.\" Today, when you can't count on people knowing even\nthe basics of logic or seeing through rhetoric, a good argument is\noften indistinguishable from a poor one.\n\nSorry; just one of my perennial gripes...<:->\n\nKen", "\nIt sounds to me like it's just SCREAMING OUT for parody. Give a copy to your\nfriendly neighbourhood SubGenius preacher; with luck, he'll run it through the\nmental mincer and hand you back an outrageously offensive and gut-bustingly\nfunny parody you can paste over the originals.\n\nI can see it now:\n\n The Stool Scroll\n Thoughts on Religion, Spirituality, and Matters of the Colon\n\n (You can use this text to wipe)\n", "\nI'll also add that it is impossible to actually tell when one\n_rejects_ god. Therefore, you choose to punish only those who\n_talk_ about it. ", "\nHence we are \"all\" above the Law where \"all\" in this case refers to\nChristians.\n\n\nWhen was the last time you heard about a Jewish animal sacrifice?\n\n\nThe blood sacrifice of an innocent man?\n\n\nThen why don't Christians follow it, why don't they even follow their\nown Ten Commandments?\n\n\nSo, in short; Hitler is in heaven and Gandhi is in Hell?\n", " | \n |> Religion (especially Christianity) is nothing more than a DRUG. \n |> Some people use drugs as an escape from reality. Christians inject\n |> themselves with jeezus and live with that high. \n | \n |Your logic is falty. If Christianity is a DRUG, and once we die we \n |die, then why would you be reluctant to embrase this drug so that \n |while you are alive you enjoy yourself. \n | \n\nPardon the harshness that follows...\n\nOnce, I told a cradle christian: Please do not take advantage of Jesus\nor anybody for the sake of your own (selfish) realization or search\nfor true faith/religion/belonging/'being in'/fear of hell/vanity/etc. \nInstead of serving yourself, _we must be serving Him_. \n*Until you have comprehended this truth, you are only doing things for your \nown egoism.*\n\nLet us not use Jesus, our religion, the Bible, anything or\nanybody as a means of escape or getting ecstatic or high.\nWe are God's children and we must have a true and authentic\nrelationship with our Father with obedience, faith, hope and \nlove and works (the last as the most important).\n\nBeware of our 'materialistic', 'worldly' and 'selfish' motives. \nAtheists have this ground against us and I believe they are right about\n*some* who call themselves 'christians'.", "\nMaybe not to you. But to those who stand on this base, He is \nprecious.", "I have an addition to the FAQ regarding \"why are there no atheist\nhospitals.\"\n\nIf I recall correctly, Johns Hopkins was built to provide medical\nservices without the \"backing\" of a religious group...thus making it a\nhospital \"dedicated to the glory of [weak] atheism.\"\n\nMight someone check up on this?\n", "\nIts just variation within a thread. The variation at times has been so great\nthat speciation has occurred. So Albert Sabin is the common ancestor of\nseveral threads, some of which have themselves speciated. On a separate topic,\nI subscribed to t.o. just recently. Albert Sabin existed at that time, so I\nhave no clue as to its origins. Maybe the abiogenesists have an answer. I\nmight also point out that evolution is aimless. Thus why Albert \nSabin evolved into a religious discussion is probably unexplainable.", "\n\n\n\n\n(I presume you are quoting John 3:3-7.)\n\n1. My King James Bible says \"Except a man be born of water \nand of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God\" \n(John 3:5). (Here \"man\" == \"adult\").\n(However, this could be a quibble between translations.)\n\n2. We can also analyze to whom the Lord is addressing:\n\"Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again\"\n(John 3:7). Here Jesus is clearly directing his remarks\nto Nicodemus -- a ruler of the Jews (not a child).\n\n3. We can ask ourselves why the Lord would even \nintroduce the concept of spiritual re-birth through\nbaptism if newborn babies weren't free from sin?\n\nA IDLER", "\nI've done all those things, and I've regretted it, and I learned \na lesson or two. So far an aspirin, a good talk with your wife,\nor a one week vacation has cured me -- no need for group therapy\nor strange religions!\n\nCheers,\nKent", "\n\nThe above is probably not the most representative paragraph, but I\nthought I'd hop on, anyway...\n\nWhat strikes me as self-contradicting in the fable of Lucifer's\nfall - which, by the way, I seem to recall to be more speculation\nthan based on biblical text, but my ex RCism may be showing - is\nthat, as Benedikt pointed out, Lucifer had perfect nature, yet he\nhad the free will to \"choose\" evil. But where did that choice come\nfrom?\n\nWe know from Genesis that Eve was offered an opportunity to sin by a\ntempter which many assume was Satan, but how did Lucifer discover,\ninvent, create, call the action what you will, something that God\nhad not given origin to?\n\nAlso, where in the Bible is there mention of Lucifer's free will?\nWe make a big fuss about mankind having free will, but it strikes me\nas being an after-the-fact rationalisation, and in fact, like\nsalvation, not one that all Christians believe in identically.\n\nAt least in my mind, salvation and free will are very tightly\ncoupled, but then my theology was Roman Catholic...\n\nStill, how do theologian explain Lucifer's fall? If Lucifer had\nperfect nature (did man?) how could he fall? How could he execute an\nact that (a) contradicted his nature and (b) in effect cause evil to\nexist for the first time?", "\n\nYou should remember that in Adam's transgression, all men and women\nsinned, as Paul wrote. All of humanity cooperativley reblled against\nGod in Adma's sin, thus, all are subject to it, and the sin is\ntransmitted from generation to generation.", "\nYour last remark is a contradiction, but I'll let that pass.\n\nI was addressing the notion of the Great Commission, which\nyou deleted in order to provide us with dull little homilies.\nThank you, Bing Crosby. Now you go right on back to sleep\nand mommy and daddy will tuck you in later.\n\nOh, and how convenient his bible must have been to Michael\nGriffin, how convenient his Christianity. \"Well, I'll just\nskip the bit about not murdering people and loving the sinner\nand hating the sin and all that other stuff for now and\nconcentrate on the part where it says that if someone is doing\nsomething wrong, you should shoot him in the back several times\nas he tries to hobble away on his crutches.\"\n\nI'll leave the \"convert or die\" program of the missionaries and\ntheir military escorts in the Americas for Nadja to explain as\nshe knows much more about it than I.\n\nMust be awfully convenient, by the way, to offer platitudes\nas you have done, David, rather than addressing the arguments.", "\n\n\n\nCan somebody reconcile the apparent contradiction between [1] and [2]?\n", "\nbelieveing blindly or not. I'm not sure how blindness comes into it. I do > not\ndeny reason, indeed I insist upon it, but reason only draws conclusions > from\nevidence. If you decide in advance that your reason will act only on > the\nevidence of the five physical senses, then you cut reason off from any >\npossibility of reaching a conclusion outside the physical sphere (beyond the >\nrather provocative, if inconclusive, conclusion that the physical sphere > is\nnot self explanatory). \n\nSo your are saying to rely on our feelings and experiences (since\nthis is the only other source of information left to us).\nHow can you then convince somebody that your \"feelings and experiences\"\nare the correct ones then if you can't show somebody visible and\nmeasurable effects? If my experiences say that \"there exists no god\"\nand yours says there does, where does that leave us? Since we are only\ngoing on experiences, then both of us are correct within our own personal\nrealities.\n\nFurthermore, the trouble with \"feelings and experiences\" is that they\ncan lead you astray, as the tragic outcome of Waco illustrates. I\nam sure that many of Koresh's followers really believed in him but\nI think that you and I will agree that they were being misled.\n\nFinally, how on earth do you come to the conclusion that the physical\nsphere is not self-explanatory when you only rely on the five senses?\n\n\nYou must be using a definition of \"evidence\" that I am not familiar with.\nTo me, evidence is something you can show others -unambiguously- that\nwhat you are saying is true.\n\nHowever, I agree with you that belief in a diety is a matter of faith.\nIt is not something you can share around - others must experience it\nindependantly. Unfortunately, as I have explained above, this puts\nbelief down to a matter of experience. My impression is that Christians\ndo not have the monopoly on reason, evidence and faith as far as any of\nthese things can go.\n\n\nAt the risk of repeating my argument : As I have explained previously, \nthe trouble is that Moslems, Buddhists, Jews, etc will ALL say that THEY\nclaim, with good reason, to be a valid system, possessed of the best\nevidence, for explaining Gods revelations to man (for Buddhists it\nshould read \"for explaining the non-existence of God\"). So not only\nmust you \"prove\" your own case, you have to \"disprove\" theirs.\n\n(alt.messianic is a good place to see people strong in the belief\nof their own faiths ... and with their own good reasons)\n\n\nI know that ALL people can use reason ... I never claimed that they don't.\nI just wish to make sure that their arguments are well-founded. It goes\nwithout saying that if I make a blunder that I expect people to correct\nme. Once we have all gone through this process of removing the \nnon-essential and contradictory bits, we should (hopefully) have made\nsome progress towards the truth.\n\n", "This is being posted as a general outline for your personal study of this \ndoctrine:\n\n\n THE DOCTRINE OF GOD\n\n\nI. THE PERSONS OF THE GODHEAD\n Of all of the doctrines of Scripture, this is the most\n important. The Bible is pre-eminently a revelation of God. \n Therefore, our first objective in studying the Bible should\n be to know God.\n I believe that the Bible teaches that there are Three\n Persons in the Godhead (Trinity): God, the Father; God the\n Son--the Lord Jesus Christ; and God, the Holy Spirit. I\n believe that they are individual Persons who are one in\n nature, meaning that They are identical in nature, each\n possessing the same divine attributes. They are also\n equally worthy of our worship, our trust, and our obedience.\n Cf. Matt.28:19, 2 Cor.13:14; John 14:8,9,16,17.\n\nII. THE ATTRIBUTES, or CHARACTERISTICS, OF THE GODHEAD.\n A. God's nature is revealed in the Name He has taken for\n Himself: Jehovah. He is the living God, eternal, and\n unchanging. He is without beginning, and without\n ending. Cf. Isa.42:8.\n B. God is a spirit. Cf. John 4:24.\n C. God is love. Cf. 1 John 4:8,16.\n As such, He is gracious, merciful, good, faithful,\n patient, and full of lovingkindness. Cf. Psa 89:1,2;\n Psa 103:8; Nahum 1:7.\n D. But God is also holy and righteous. He is absolutely\n without sin in His nature, and so is incapable of\n sinning in though, word, or action. Cf. Ex. 15:11; Isa.\n 6:3.\n E. God is omnipresent (everywhere present at the same time\n in the completeness of His Person), omniscient (all\n knowing, knowing all things--the end from the beginning,\n infinitely wise), omnipotent (almighty, sovereign, with\n unlimited power over all creation).\n God is infinite in His presence, wisdom, and power. It\n is my conviction that the work of the Lord in our day\n has become very man-centered, and that the people in our\n churches know very little about God. I believe that the\n Lord's work needs to be God-centered, and that the\n people of God need to understand that God is sovereign\n in all things: in the affairs of nations, in the lives\n of all people, and in the carrying out of His purposes\n regarding salvation.\n\nIII. THE WORKS OF THE GODHEAD.\n A. In creation\n All Three Persons of the Godhead were active in\n creating, and all Three are active in sustaining\n creation, and in ordering the course of human affairs\n (for nations as well as individual people) to the end\n of time. Cf. Gen. 1:1,2; John 1:1-3; Col. 1:16-17;\n Heb. 1:3.\n B. In salvation\n In order to understand salvation I believe that it is\n absolutely necessary to begin with God, not with man. \n All three Persons of the Godhead have been, and are,\n active in salvation.\n 1. God, the Father\n Salvation originated with God. The Members of the\n Godhead determined in eternity past that there would\n be salvation, the conditions under which people\n could and would be saved, and even who would be\n saved. Election to salvation is recognized in\n Scripture as the work of God, the Father. Cf. Eph\n 1:3-4; 2 Thess 2:13-14.\n 2. Christ, the Son of God\n The Lord Jesus Christ, through His birth by the\n virgin Mary, came to the earth to accomplish two\n important works:\n a. He came as the final and complete revelation of\n God, the Father. Cf. Col 1:15; heb 1:1-3.\n b. He came to provide salvation for all whom the\n Father had chosen. He did this by His death on\n the Cross, by His bodily resurrection, and by\n His present intercessory work in heaven. The\n work of salvation will be completed for us when\n the Lord returns. Cf. Rom 5:8-10; 1 Cor 15:3-\n 4; Heb 7:25, 1 John 3:2.\n 3. The Holy Spirit\n As the Author of Scripture, the theme of which is\n Christ and His redemptive work, the Holy Spirit is\n carrying out the redemptive plan of God in the\n following ways:\n a. He convicts of sin. Cf. John 16:7-11\n b. He regenerates (known in the Bible as the new\n birth). Cf. John 3:5-8.\n c. He indwells each believer to fulfill the work\n of sanctification. Cf. John 14-16-17.\n d. He seals every believer in Christ, thus making \n salvation secure. Cf. Eph 1:13-14.\n e. He baptizes every believer into the body of\n Christ. Cf. Cor. 12:13\n f. He teaches every believer the truth of\n Scripture. Cf. John 14:26.\n g. He bestows spiritual gifts on the people of \n God for ministry. (Cf. 1 Cor 12\n h. He restrains sin. Cf Gal 5:16-26.\n i. He empowers for living and for service. \n Cf. Acts 1:8\n\n", "\n\n\nSorry, but yes he does, by your own description.\n\n\nHumorous, this notion of an all-knowing, all-powerful god who must\n\"attempt\" to \"reconcile\" with his lowly creations. I realize that it\nis not possible to penetrate such logic, but is there any chance that\nyou might consider that an omnipotent god need not \"attempt\" anything,\nand further that an attempt to \"reconcile\" implies a lack of\nomniscience?\n\nWhat you are doing here is projecting human weaknesses onto your god.\n\n\n\nBut all humans are sinners, thus all pre-Jesus humans should have been\npunished with death. We aren't punished with sin now, of course,\nbecause God has changed. He required a brutal, sadistic sacrifice of\nhis own blood in order to allow us to sin without immediate death. \n\n\nYet he does so now. He has changed. The sadistic murder of his own\nson has made him more tolerant of our sins.\n\nBesides, his \"midst\" is everywhere, so your statement is meaningless.\nHe tolerates sin in Hell, which surely is in his midst as well. Also,\ngiven that he is all-knowing, he must have eternal knowledge of who\nwill commit which sins, as well as when and where, so what does\ntolerance have to do with anything. All of this is absolute nonsense,\nunless your god is not indeed all-knowing and all-powerful, or unless\nhe doesn't take the personal interest in everyday affairs that you\nclaim.\n\n\nNot relevant. The claim of kindness and lovingness was made by you in\nreference to your god. The nature of his creations/victims is not at\nissue.\n\n\nI see: an all-knowing god who did not know what the ultimate outcome\nwould be, and an all-powerful god who had no choice in the matter.\nMindmush.\n\n\nDid I miss something? Did you give some indication at to why a KIND\nand LOVING god should require sadistic human sacrifice to allow his\nown botched creations to \"achieve salvation\"?\n\n\n \nI note that your answer physically follows my question, but I fail to\ndiscern a connection between the two.\n\nBy the way, for what am I being consoled?\n\n\n\nWhy not? By the way, I note for the record that you didn't answer the\nquestions. \n\n\nDeath and/or eternal damnation is your idea of correctional\npunishment? I hope you aren't a parent.\n\n\nThis is quite an elaborate fantasy that you've constructed, but sadly\nit lacks a basis in reality. It also does not address the questions\nthat I raised.\n\n\nThe god that you describe is not a good parent, but a tyrant.\n\n\nSorry, was that the god of the Bible whose rules I am to follow, or\nthe god of the Koran? The Vedas? The Book of Koresh? Oh, yes, it's\nall so clear.\n", "\n\nThough there is a command in the law not to heed to one who prophecies \nfalsely, it is still possible for the one who has prophecied falsely\nto prophecy truely again. Take, for example the story in Kings about the\nman of God from Judah who came to israel and prophecied against a king.\nThe Lord had commanded him to not eat or drink till he returned home.\nAnother prophet wanted this man of God to stay in his house, so he\nprophecied falsely that the Lord wanted the man of God to stay in his \nhouse. While they ate and drank in his house, the Lord gave the prophet\nwho lied a word that the man of God would die from breaking the word of\nthe Lord. It came to pass.", "[deletions]\n[deletions]\n\n As you have presented it, it is indeed an argument from incredulity.\nHowever, from what I have seen, it is not often presented in this manner.\nIt is usually presented more in the form, \"And *besides*, I cannot see...\n...nor have I ever been offered a convincing explanation.\"\n Moreover, it is not unreasonable to ask for an explanation for such\nphenomena. That theism does not provide a convincing explanation is not\nan argument in theism's favor. Especially when different theisms offer \ndifferent explanations, and even different adherents of what is purportedly\nthe same theism give different explanations...\n\n\n Not im my experience. In my experience, the most common reason is the\nlack of evidence in theism's favor. You mileage may vary. :->\n\n\n Oh, heck, I'll be snide this once. :-> It's also fairly easy to attack\narguments that are not made. (I.e. 'strawmen'.)\n\n\n Sage advice indeed.\n\n Sincerely,\n\n Raymond Ingles ingles@engin.umich.edu", "Fact or rumor....? Madalyn Murray O'Hare an atheist who eliminated the\nuse of the bible reading and prayer in public schools 15 years ago is now\ngoing to appear before the FCC with a petition to stop the reading of the\nGospel on the airways of America. And she is also campaigning to remove\nChristmas programs, songs, etc from the public schools. If it is true\nthen mail to Federal Communications Commission 1919 H Street Washington DC\n20054 expressing your opposition to her request. Reference Petition number", "I am beginning an e-mail discussion group about cell churches. If you are\na follower of Jesus Christ and are\n\n - in a cell church, or\n - in a church that is transitioning to a cell church, or\n - just interested in learning more about cell churches,\n\nsend me e-mail. (I reserve the right to remove anybody from the group who\ndoes not demonstrate a spirit of humility and Christlikeness.)\n", "From: \"Phil G. Fraering\" \n\nRight, the Profiting Caste is blessed by God, and may \n freely blare its presence in the evening twilight ..\n", "\nI have also heard it called an expression of mercy, because Heaven would be\nfar more agonizing for those who had rejected God.\n", "no \n\nI'd recommend reading _Mormonism and Early Christianity_ by Hugh Nibley, \nparticularly the articles on Christ's forty-day (post-resurrection) mission, \nbaptism for the dead, early Christian prayer circles, and temples (2 articles). \n..bruce..\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nBruce F. Webster | A religion that does not require the sacrifice\nCTO, Pages Software Inc | of all things never has power sufficient to\nbwebster@pages.com | produce the faith necessary unto life and\n#import | salvation. -- Joseph Smith", "\n\nThough this will be addressed in the series of articles I'm posting now under\n\"ARESNOKOITIA\", I can't wait. This just really blew my socks off. Read I Tim\n1: 3-11. Verses 3-8 speaks against those who have perverted the teachings of\nthe Mosaic Law. In vv.9-10, we have, *IN ORDER*, the 5th thru the 9th\ncommandments and in the midst of this listing is \"homosexuals.\" The decalogue,\nabove everything else, is seen as God's absolute. If you don't believe in\nabsolutes, then you have nothing do do with Jehovah of the OT, which Paul\nreveals to be the Messiah of the NT. \"Lord Christ Jesus\" transliterates to read\n\"Jehovah's Anointed Savior.\" \n In I Cor5, we see the same emphasis of moral separation from the pagan\ngentiles as we do in Lev 18-20. In I Cor 6:9-10, only one notation (drunkards)\nis not found in Lev 18-20. Paul was not naive in his use of the LXX. He knew\nfull well how he was using the Law of God that was given in the OT, for\napplication in the NT. As I've said, the Law was fulfilled, not done away\nwith.\n\n\nThis understanding is thoroughly rebutted in DeYoungs article that is being\nposted. Please refer to it.\n\n\nWe can do better than \"probably\" which is not an adequate defense against the\nstatement that Paul's culture didn't have the same understanding of\nhomosexuality as ours. \nAgain read the article because it uses facts.\n\n\nI think I do, because I have worked in the homosexual community by means of\nworking with AIDs patients. The pastoral is merely the practical application\nof the theological truth however. Those who are working thru the issue of\nhomosexuality need to have our love and understanding just as with a friend who\nis contiplating cheating on his wife or a friend who lives with his girlfriend,\nyet you continue to witness to him. But, once the choice is made, and there is\nno remorse, then I feel that Paul's \"pastoral\" care, as presented in the\nCorinthian Church, come to bear significance. THe one in active rebellion\nshould be placed outside of the church if a believer, and if a non-believer,\nthen one wipes his sandels and leaves it in Gods hand. If there was a member\nin your youth group who was constantly pawing at the little girls, you wouldn't\nhesitate to deal with the matter quickly and decisivly. That, in part, betrays\nthe present \"political correctness\" of the issue. Pederasty is not accepted at\nthe present, but some how we are to accept homosexuality because the latter is\npolitically correct, while the former is not -at least not yet. THis is how\nthe morals decay. \n\nI guess this would follow the liberal application in the political realm of\neconomics. The liberals want to tax the rich in the federal, yet in their own\nstates, when they try to get businesses to settle there, they give tax\nincentives to these same richies. It comes down to a moral code of\nrelativeness, or to use the cultural thing, politically correct -at the moment.\n--Rex", "Hi All\n\nHope you all had a Blessed Easter. I have a document which I believe\nrefutes the notion that the SSPX (Society of Saint Pius X) is in\nschism, or that there has been any legitimate excommunication. If\nanyone is interested in reading the truth about this matter please\nemail me and I'll send them the document via email. Its 26 pages long,\nso I wont be posting it on the news group.\n\nIts titled\n\n\n NEITHER SCHISMATIC NOR EXCOMMUNICATED\n\n\n This article was originally an English\ttranslation, by the\n Society of Saint\tPius X in Ireland, from the French Journal\n 'Courrier de Rome'. The French article, in its\tturn, was a\n translation from the Italian of the Roman Newsletter 'Si Si No\n No'.\n\n This booklet contains the transcription, with some minor editing,\n of\tthe Irish article, and was transcribed and produced by John\n Clay, Townsville, Queensland, Australia.\n\n (There is no copyright attached. Simon Shields)\n\n CONTENTS \n\n NEITHER SCHISMATIC NOR EXCOMMUNICATED.......................1\n CATHOLICS ON THE RACK.......................................1\n THE CHOICE OF THE 'SENSUS FIDEI'............................3\n AMBIGUITY...................................................4\n THE CHURCH IS NOT BICEPHALOUS (TWO-HEADED)..................6\n THE PERSON AND THE FUNCTION OF THE POPE.....................6\n UNITY OF FAITH AND UNITY OF COMMUNION.......................8\n THE CRITERIA OF CHOICE.....................................10\n ECUMENISM - AN ATTACK ON THE UNITY OF THE CHURCH...........10\n THE EXTRAORDINARY SITUATION WITHIN THE CHURCH..............11\n EXTRAORDINARY DUTIES OF LAY PEOPLE.........................12\n DUTIES AND POWERS OF BISHOPS...............................14\n FROM THE FACT OF THEIR GREATER DUTIES......................14\n FROM THE FACT OF THEIR GREATER POWER.......................14\n THE POWER AND THE DUTY OF THE PAPACY.......................15\n THE ELECTION OF BISHOPS....................................15\n STATE AND RIGHT OF NECESSITY...............................16\n 1. THERE IS IN THE CHURCH A REAL STATE OF NECESSITY........17\n FOR SOULS..................................................18\n FOR SEMINARIANS............................................18\n 2. ALL THE ORDINARY MEANS HAVE BEEN EXHAUSTED..............19\n 3. THE ACT ITSELF IS NOT INTRINSICALLY EVIL AND THERE RESUL..........21\n 4. IN THE LIMITS OF EFFECTIVE REQUIREMENTS.................22\n 5. THE AUTHORITY OF THE POPE IS NOT PUT INTO QUESTION......23\n THE EXCOMMUNICATION........................................24\n CONCLUSION.................................................25\n BIBLIOGRAPHY...............................................26-31\n\nGod Bless ye all,\n\n\n\nAn Irish Fairwell\n\nmay the road rise to meet you\nmay the wind be always at your back\nmay the sun shine warm upon your face, \nthe rains fall soft upon your fields,\nand until we meet again,\nmay God hold you in the palm of his hand.\n\n", "In <1993Apr24.214843.10940@midway.uchicago.edu> eeb1@quads.uchicago.edu\n\n\nI already responded to this on one dimension, but afterthoughts cause\nme to make another, independent reply. The problem with a \"moment of\nsilence\" is that it is NOT an even-handed way of \"allowing\" for religion\namongst students in the public schools. As I noted before, Muslims need\nmore than a moment of silence in order to perform the prayers they are\nrequired by Muhammad to do. And (at least Orthodox) Jewish prayer also\nhas requirements that are not addressed by this.\n\nThere is, in fact, a highly selective BIAS towards Christian prayer in\nthis \"moment of silence\" shit. And that is especially bizarre in that\nChristian prayer DOESN'T NEED this stuff -- a Christain may pray totally\nincognito AT ANY TIME (to some extent, this is true of Muslims and Jews\nas well -- what I intend in my first paragraph is that there *are* some\ncharacteristic forms of prayer in *these* religions which DO need special\ntimes and/or behavior, which cannot be undertaken without an observer \nbeing able taking note of it.)\n\nA Christian may pray, at ANY time -- silently and without any trace of\nhis activity being evident to others. That may or may not be true of the\nother religious traditions amongst us: certainly, these tend to have SOME\nforms of prayer that WOULD evidence differences from American/Protestant\n\"mainstream\" religion.\n\nAll that a \"moment of silence\" does is to allow THAT ONE tradition which\ndoesn't NEED it, to have a \"special\" place set aside in the public schools.\nThere is NOTHING in Christian prayer that requires public forms, or rugs,\nor phylacteries, or anything else at all visible to the outside world. A\nChristian student MAY (and probably does) pray at innumerable times during\nthe day, without anyone else knowing it. [That may also be true of non-\nChristians -- I am not claimng otherwise]. In the \"moment of silence\" it\nwould STILL be difficult for the Jews to gather and daven, for the Muslims\nto do their ablutions and find qiblah to Mecca and engage in the prescribed\nforms. But *of course* Christians can do *their* thing -- and therefore,\nthe provision is nothing but a disguised attempt to encourage just that.\n\nLuckily, there *is* a strong Jewish presence in this country (and I, as\na Christian, revere some of the Jewish teachers I had in public schools),\nand a growing Muslim presence as well. I can only hope that the political\nforces consequent on this will PREVENT the imposition of Christian forms\non non-Christians.\n\nAs far as I can see (as a Christian) there is NOTHING in this \"moment of\nsilence\" campaign but an attempt to use PUBLIC social pressure to FORCE\nchildren to adhere to a pattern that is biased towards Christianity. And\nas a Christian, I *must* protest such coercion. For what it's worth, I\nsuspect that the coercion is not really targeted at the non-Christians --\nit is yet another case of FAILURE amongst Christian parents in \"making\"\ntheir children prayerful, so that they want the public schools to teach\nwhat THEY cannot manage to teach, despite having all the opportunity in\nthe world to do so.\n\nIf you have taught your children to pray, they do NOT need a moment of\nsilence in school. If you have NOT managed to teach them, the moment\nwill only embarrass you. Give it up.", "\nYou don't need any counterfeit athiest's myth to make religion\nappear absurd. You need only read any of friendly Christian\nBill Conner's posts.\n", "\nI agree with your points, and I'm glad to hear that you subscribe\nto the notion of secular humanism, humans helping humans instead\nof hoping for a possible deux ex machina solution!\n\nAs for faith, you could always use such constructs to dampen\nyour anger or sorrow.\n\nCheers,\nKent", "\nI agree with Carol here. Determining absolutes is, practically speaking, a\nwaste of time. And we easily forget that relative truth is, in fact relative.\n\nFor example, I recently was asking some children the question \"What temperature\ndoes water boil at?\" I got the answer 212 degrees consistently. I asked\nif they knew what scale, and was told \"It's just 212 degrees. Any scale.\nThat's what all thermometers say.\" Well, that's sincere, and may be\ntrue in the experience of the speaker, but it is simply wrong. IT is NOT\nan absolute truth. Similarly, Scripture is full of Truth, which we should\nnurture and cherish, but trying to determine which parts are Absolute Truth\nand which parts are the manifestations of that in the context of the time\nand culture in which the text was penned is missing the point. Then religion\neasily becomes an intellectual head-trip, devoid of the living experience of \nthe indwelling Trinity and becomes dead scholasticism, IMO.\n \n[example of head-covering in Church deleted]\n\nThis was a good example. There may be an Absolute Truth behind the\nwriting, but the simplest understanding of the passage is that the\ninstructions apply to the Corinthians, and not necessarily elsewhere.\nThe instructions may reflect Absolute Truth in the context of first\ncentury culture and the particular climate at Corinth, which was having\na LOT of trouble with order. Is it Absolute Truth to me? No. And I \nsee no compelling, or even reasonable, reason that it should be.\n \n\nEven the most die-hard literalists do not take all of the Bible literally.\nI've yet to meet anyone who takes the verse \"blessed is he who takes your\nbabies and smashes their heads against the rocks\" literally. The Bible\nwas not printed or handed to us by God with color codings to tell us\nwhat parts should be interpreted which way. \n \n\nI agree. Very few. And even if we knew them, personally, we may not be \nable to express that in a way that still conveys Absolute Truth to another.\nThe presence of absence of Absolutes may not make any difference, since I\nknow I can never fully apprehend an Absolute if it walks up and greets me.\n\nI can't prove the existence of absolutes. I can only rely upon MY experience.\nI also trust God's revelation that WE cannot fully comprehend the infinite.\nTherefore we can't comprehend the Absolutes. So I don't need them. \nI can never know the essence of God, only the energies by and through which\nGod is manifested to God's creation. So the reality can be that there ARE\nabsolutes, but it is of no practical importance. It's like claiming that the\noriginal scriptural autographs were perfect, but copies may not be. Swell.\nWho cares? It doesn't affect me in any practical useful way. I might as \nwell believe that God has made a lot of electric blue chickens, and that they\nlive on Mars. Maybe God did. So what? Is that going to have ANY effect on \nhow I deal with my neighbor, or God? Whether or not I go to this or that\ncafeteria for lunch? No. \n\nThis attitude leads many non-Christians to believe that ALL Christians\nare arrogant idiots incapable of critical reasoning. Christianity is true,\nwonderful and sensible. It appeals to Reason, since Reason is an inner\nreflection of the Logos of God. Explanations that violate that simply\nappear to be insecure authoritarian responses to a complex world.\n\nNOTE: I'm NOT claiming there is no place for authority. That'd be silly.\n There IS a world of difference between authoritative and authoritarian.\n Authoritative is en expression of authority that respects others.\n Authoritarian is en expression of authority that fails to do that,\n and is generally agressive. Good parents (like God) are authoritative.\n Many Christians are simply authoritarian, and, not surprisingly, few \n adults respond to this treatment.\n\nLarry Overacker (llo@shell.com)\n-- ", "\n\n\nIt is not a matter of dis-belief but a matter of which of their constantly\n(and radically) changing stories we are to believe.\n\nSteve B.", "----- News saved at 23 Apr 93 22:22:40 GMT\n \n\n\n\nWell, I'm working on it, but getting a little impatient. So far, \nI've made it through Egyptian, Chinese, and Greek cultures, and\nup through the Rennaisance. But so far, these insights just don't \nseem to be gelling. Perhaps it's in an appendix somewhere.", "\n\n\"Finally, brethern, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is\nright, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute,\nif there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, let your\nmind dwell on these things.\" Phil. 4:8.", "\n...\n\nIf we take things this literally then we must also forbid women from\nspeaking in church. Paul while led by the holy spirit was human and could\nerr. I find it interesting that CHRIST never discussed the issue of\nhomosexuality, certainly it existed back then and if it was a serious\ntransgression CHRIST would have condemned it. \nI find it disturbing that the modern church spends its energy trying\nto stamp out something that CHRIST didn't consider worth a single word\nof condemnation. CHRIST repeatedly warns us against judgement. \nDon't we risk \"judgement in equal measure\" when we condemn people who \nGOD himself did not judge when he walked on the earth?\n\n-- \n | The love of CHRIST is contagious! \n --+-- \n | ", "\nI'm not saying this at all - it requires no faith on my part to\nsay the car drives because I've seen it drive - I've done more\nthan at in fact - I've actually driven it. (now what does require\nsome faith is the belief that my senses give an accurate representation\nof what's out there....) But there is NO evidence - pro or con -\nfor the existence or non-existence of God (see what I have to\nsay below on this).\n\n\nSorry if I remain skeptical - I don't believe it's entirely a\nconclusion. That you have seen no evidence that there IS a God\nis correct - neither have I. But lack of evidence for the existence \nof something is in NO WAY evidence for the non-existence of something \n(the creationist have a similar mode of argumentation in which if they \ndisprove evolution the establish creation). You (personally) have never \nseen a neutrino before, but they exist. The \"pink unicorn\" analogy breaks\ndown and is rather naive. I have a scientific theory that explains the \nappearance of animal life - evolution. When I draw the conclusion that \n\"pink unicorns\" don't exist because I haven't seen them, this conclusion\nhas it's foundation in observation and theory. A \"pink unicorn\", if\nit did exist, would be qualitatively similar to other known entities.\nThat is to say, since there is good evidence that all life on earth has\nevolved from \"more primitive\" ancestors these pink unicorns would share \na common anscestory with horses and zebras and such. God, however,\nhas no such correspondence with anything (IMO). There is no physical\nframe work of observation to draw ANY conclusions FROM. \n\n\n\n\nI disagree with you profoundly on this. I haven't defined God as\nexistence - in fact, I haven't defined God. But this might be\ngetting off the subject - although if you think it's relevant\nwe can come back to it. \n\n\nYou are using wrong categories here - or perhaps you misunderstand\nwhat I'm saying. I'm making no argument what so ever and offering no\ndefinition so there is no fallacy. I'm not trying to convince you of\nanything. *I* Believe - and that rests upon Faith. And it is inappropriate\nto apply the category of logic in this realm (unless someone tells you\nthat they can logically prove God or that they have \"evidence\" or ...,\nthen the use of logic to disprove their claims if fine and necessary).\n\nBTW, an incomplete argument is not a fallacy - some things are not\nEVEN wrong. \n\n\nI don't follow you here. Certainly one can make observations of\nthings that they didn't know existed. I still maintain that one\ncannot use observation to infer that \"God does not exist\". Such\na positive assertion requires a leap. \n\n\n\n\nOnce again you seem to completely misunderstand me. I have no\nEVIDENCE that \"'god is' is meaningful\" at ANY level. Maybe such\na response as you gave just comes naturally to you because so\nmany people try to run their own private conception of God down\nyour throat. I, however, am not doing this. I am arguing one, and\nonly one, thing - that to make a positive assertion about something\nfor which there can in principle be no evidence for or against\nrequires a leap - it requires faith. I am, as you would say, a\n\"theist\"; however, there is a form of atheism that I can respect -\nbut it must be founded upon honesty. \n\n\n\n", "\n\tI wish to echo what D. Andrew Kille wrote. I know of no published form\nin English of the D-type recension of \"Acts\". Of course, Bezae is quite bizarre\nin the gospels as well. Only D-type texts share Bezae's strange readings.\n\t[By the way, \"D\" stands for Codex Claromontanus elsewhere.]\n\t\t\t\t\tFrank D\n", "I find this remark to be awfully arrogant. I would venture to \nsay that there are many people who are Christians now, who at one\npoint in their lives had no intention of ever becoming a Christian.\nI was certainly one such person. I am quite thankful that there \nwere Christians who were willing to continue to talk to me, despite\nthe appearance that it might have been a waste of their time and \nmine. (I even married one of them.)", "\nI didn't know God was a secular humanist...\n\nKent", "I can (and do) take religious writings as a metaphor for life.\nI do this with all sorts of fiction, from Beowolf to Deep Space Nine.\nThe idea is to not limit yourself to one book, screen out the good \nstuff from what you read, and to remember that it is all just a story. \nYou sound Buddist to me :^)", "/(emery)\n/The one single historic event that has had the biggest impact on the\n/world over the centuries is the resurrection of Jesus. \n\nThis is hardly possible, as the majority of people in the world were\nborn, lived their life, and died, without ever knowing anything about\nChrist. The majority of the rest of the world have decided that he \nis not who Emery thinks he is.\n\n\n\n/(emery)\n/Why were the writers of the New Testament documents so convinced that\n/Jesus really did rise from the dead?\n/We have four gospel accounts. \n\nI am leaving out all \"proofs\" of Emery's which rely on quoting the\nbible as proof. Circular reasoning, etc. There have been occasions\nalready stated many times for later generations of Xtians to change,\nedit, or otherwise alter the bible to fit their political gospel.\nAnd if we accept the bible as true just because the bible says it\nis true, then (to be fair) we have to do the same to the Bhagavad-Gita\nand the Koran, both of which contradict the bible.\n\nEnough said.\n\n\n\n/(emery)\n/Yet we have no reason to believe these disciples to be immoral and dishonest.\n/We have no historic information that would lead us to the conclusion that\n/these people were not God-fearing people who sincerely and whole-heartedly\n/believed that the resurrection of their Lord Jesus was a real event.\n/And for what gain would they lie? To make a stand at that time meant \n/persecution, imprisonment, and perhaps even death.\n\nAgain, this is only the biblical account and there is no independent proof\nof any of this happening. It just isn't there.\n\nBesides, simply being sincere or willing to die for your faith does not\nmake your faith correct. There are Muslims dying in Bosnia right now;\ndoes the fact that they are willing to die for Islam mean that Islam is\nthe correct religion?\n\n\n\n\n(emery)\n/History bears out the persecution of Christians. Roman historian, Cornelius \n/Tacitus, Govenor of Asia, in A.D. 112, writing of Nero's reign, alluded to \n/the torture of Christians in Rome:\n\n\nAll you have proven is that these people were tortured for their faith. That\ndoes not prove that their faith is true or correct; it just means that they\nwere sincere in their beliefs. \n\nBeing willing to die for what you believe doesn't make your belief the truth.\nIt's not that easy. And minority religions have always suffered torture;\nMuslims suffer torture and harassment in India and Bosnia today. All religions\nare harassed in China today. You haven't proven anything so far.\n\n\n\n/(emery)\n/With all the suffering and persecution that it meant to be a believer, it\n/would be quite probable that at least one of those in the supposed conspiracy\n/would come forward and confess that the whole thing was a big hoax. \n\nNot if they didn't believe that it was a hoax. \n\n\n/(emery)\n/Yet not one did. It seems rather reasonable that the disciples did not make\n/up the resurrection but sincerely believed that Jesus had actually risen\n/from the dead; especially in light of the sufferings that came upon those\n/who believed.\n\nThe followers of Muhammad firmly believed in the miracles that the Koran\nsays Muhammad performed. They were attacked and slaughtered for their\nbeliefs. They didn't denounce Muhammad or Islam. If you are correct,\nthen that means Islam is the true faith.", "\n\tI don't see the effort to equate salvation with paradise. \n\n\tRather, I see implied the fact that only those who are saved \nmay enter paradise.", "\n\nThis is becoming a tiresome statement. Coming from you it is \na definition, not an assertion:\n\n Islam is good. Belief in Islam is good. Therefore, being a \n believer in Islam can produce only good...because Islam is\n good. Blah blah blah.\n\nThat's about as circular as it gets, and equally meaningless. To\nsay that something produces only good because it is only good that \nit produces is nothing more than an unapplied definition. And\nall you're application is saying that it's true if you really \nbelieve it's true. That's silly.\n\nConversely, you say off-handedly that _anything_ can happen under\natheism. Again, just an offshoot of believe-it-and-it-becomes-true-\ndon't-believe-it-and-it-doesn't. \n\nLike other religions I'm aquainted with, Islam teaches exclusion and\ncaste, and suggests harsh penalties for _behaviors_ that have no\nlogical call for punishment (certain limits on speech and sex, for\nexample). To me this is not good. I see much pain and suffering\nwithout any justification, except for the _waving of the hand_ of\nsome inaccessible god.\n\nBy the by, you toss around the word knowledgable a bit carelessly.\nFor what is a _knowledgeable believer_ except a contradiction of\nterms. I infer that you mean believer in terms of having faith.\nAnd If you need knowledge to believe then faith has nothing\nto do with it, does it?", "Archive-name: atheism/overview\nAlt-atheism-archive-name: overview\nLast-modified: 20 April 1993\nVersion: 1.3\n\n Overview\n\nWelcome to alt.atheism and alt.atheism.moderated.\n\nThis is the first in a series of regular postings aimed at new readers of the\nnewsgroups.\n\nMany groups of a 'controversial' nature have noticed that new readers often\ncome up with the same questions, mis-statements or misconceptions and post\nthem to the net. In addition, people often request information which has\nbeen posted time and time again. In order to try and cut down on this, the\nalt.atheism groups have a series of five regular postings under the following\ntitles:\n\n 1. Alt.Atheism FAQ: Overview for New Readers\n 2. Alt.Atheism FAQ: Introduction to Atheism\n 3. Alt.Atheism FAQ: Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)\n 4. Alt.Atheism FAQ: Constructing a Logical Argument\n 5. Alt.Atheism FAQ: Atheist Resources\n\nThis is article number 1. Please read numbers 2 and 3 before posting. The\nothers are entirely optional.\n\nIf you are new to Usenet, you may also find it helpful to read the newsgroup\nnews.announce.newusers. The articles titled \"A Primer on How to Work With\nthe Usenet Community\", \"Answers to Frequently Asked Questions about Usenet\"\nand \"Hints on writing style for Usenet\" are particularly relevant. Questions\nconcerning how news works are best asked in news.newusers.questions.\n\nIf you are unable to find any of the articles listed above, see the \"Finding\nStuff\" section below.\n\n\n Credits\n\nThese files could not have been written without the assistance of the many\nreaders of alt.atheism and alt.atheism.moderated. In particular, I'd like to\nthank the following people:\n\nkck+@cs.cmu.edu (Karl Kluge)\nperry@dsinc.com (Jim Perry)\nNETOPRWA@ncsuvm.cc.ncsu.edu (Wayne Aiken)\nchpetk@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Toby Kelsey)\njkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)\ngeoff.arnold@East.Sun.COM (Geoff Arnold)\ntorkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen)\nkmldorf@utdallas.edu (George Kimeldorf)\nroe2@quads.uchicago.edu (Greg Roelofs)\narromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)\nmadhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann)\nJ5J@psuvm.psu.edu (John A. Johnson)\ndgraham@bmers30.bnr.ca (Douglas Graham)\nmayne@open.cs.fsu.edu (William Mayne)\najr@bigbird.hri.com (Andy Rosen)\nstoesser@ira.uka.de (Achim Stoesser)\nbosullvn@unix1.tcd.ie (Bryan O'Sullivan)\nlippard@ccit.arizona.edu (James J. Lippard)\ns1b3832@rigel.tamu.edu (S. Baum)\nydobyns@phoenix.princeton.edu (York H. Dobyns)\nschroede@sdsc.edu (Wayne Schroeder)\nbaldwin@csservera.usna.navy.mil (J.D. Baldwin)\nD_NIBBY@unhh.unh.edu (Dana Nibby)\ndempsey@Kodak.COM (Richard C. Dempsey)\njmunch@hertz,elee.calpoly.edu (John David Munch)\npdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley)\nrz@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Richard Zach)\ntycchow@math.mit.edu (Tim Chow)\nsimon@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Simon Clippingdale)\nPHIMANEN@cc.helsinki.fi (Pekka Himanen)\n\n...and countless others I've forgotten.\n\nThese articles are free. Truly free. You may copy them and distribute them\nto anyone you wish. However, please send any changes or corrections to the\nauthor, and please do not re-post copies of the articles to alt.atheism; it\ndoes nobody any good to have multiple versions of the same document floating\naround the network.\n\n\n Finding Stuff\n\nAll of the FAQ files *should* be somewhere on your news system. Here are\nsome suggestions on what to do if you can't find them:\n\n1. Check the newsgroup alt.atheism. Look for subject lines starting with\n \"Alt.Atheism FAQ:\".\n\n2. Check the newsgroup news.answers for the same subject lines.\n\n If you don't find anything in steps 1 or 2, your news system isn't set up\n correctly, and you may wish to tell your system administrator about the\n problem.\n\n3. If you have anonymous FTP access, connect to rtfm.mit.edu [18.70.0.226].\n Go to the directory /pub/usenet/alt.atheism, and you'll find the latest\n versions of the FAQ files there.\n\n FTP is a a way of copying files between networked computers. If you\n need help in using or getting started with FTP, send e-mail to\n mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu with\n\n send usenet/news.answers/ftp-list/faq\n\n in the body.\n\n4. There are other sites which also carry news.answers postings. The article\n \"Introduction to the news.answers newsgroup\" carries a list of these\n sites; the article is posted regularly to news.answers.\n\n5. If you don't have FTP, send mail to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu\n consisting of the following lines:\n\n send usenet/news.answers/finding-sources\n send usenet/alt.atheism/faq\n send usenet/alt.atheism/introduction\n send usenet/alt.atheism/logic\n send usenet/alt.atheism/resources\n\n5. (Penultimate resort) Send mail to mail-server@mantis.co.uk consisting of\n the following lines:\n\n send atheism/faq/faq.txt\n send atheism/faq/logic.txt\n send atheism/faq/intro.txt\n send atheism/faq/resource.txt\n\n and our poor overworked modems will try and send you a copy of the files.\n There's other stuff, too; interesting commands to try are \"help\" and\n \"send atheism/index\".\n\n6. (Last resort) Mail mathew@mantis.co.uk, or post an article to the\n newsgroup asking how you can get the FAQ files. You should only do this\n if you've tried the above methods and they've failed; it's not nice to\n clutter the newsgroup or people's mailboxes with requests for files.\n it's better than posting without reading the FAQ, though! For instance,\n people whose email addresses get mangled in transit and who don't have \n FTP will probably need assistance obtaining the FAQ files.\n", "\nwas condemned. So the Coptic Orthodox Church does not >believe in\nMonophysitism.\n\nSorry!\n\nWhat does the Coptic Church believe about the will and energy of Christ?\n Were there one or were there two (i.e. Human and Divine) wills and\nenergies in Him.\n\nAlso, what is the objection ot the Copts with the Pope of Rome (i.e. why\nis there a Coptic Catholic Church)? Do you reject the supreme\njurisdiction of the 263rd sucessor of St. Peter (who blessed St. John\nMark, Bishop of Alexandria was translator for) and his predecessors? Or\nhis infallibility? Or what other things perhaps?", "\n[much stuff deleted]\n\nexcuse me, but what makes you think that just because he's atheist he\ndoesn't know anything about christianity???? in my (albeit limited)\nexperience atheists are often the ones who know _more_ about the\nbible, having searched it from end to end for answers. i myself am a\nchristian, but that doesn't mean i consider myself more of an\nauthority on my religion -- i just have a different perspective on it\n(more biased in favor, naturally :) ).\n\nit seems quite obvious why he is subscribed, if i may infer from what\nmotives anyway -- at the very least (although i dislike this kind of\nlogic), one could hope that he will \"see the light\". critcism will, i\nfear, not give him a very positive picture of christians....\n\n\nwith regard to this, i guess i don't really feel sentiments of this\norder can be proven -- faith has a lot to do with it. this is why\nthose who search the bible from cover to cover for answers won't\nnecessarily get what they're looking for. of course that doesn't help\nanyone who doesn't already have faith -- what a big catch 22. i\ndiscovered this quite recently when i ran into an agnostic looking for an\nexplanation of my faith and i quickly discovered that i could give him\nnothing more than my life story and a description of my nature. faith\nis a very personal thing -- any attempt to \"prove\" the \"facts\" behind\nit must be questioned.\n\n\nlikewise -- no matter what you believe.\n", " \n \nNo need to correct it, it stands as it is said.\n \n \n \n \nYou miss the point entirely. Things defined by contradictory language\ndo not exist. Though something existing might be meant, conclusions\ndrawn from the description are wrong, unless there is the possibility\nto find the described, and draw conclusions from direct knowledge of\nthe described then. Another possibility is to drop the contradictory\npart, but that implies that one can trust the concept as presented\nand that one has not got to doubt the source of it as well.\n \n \nNeither am I. But either things are directly sensed (which includes\nsome form of modelling, by the way) or they are used in modelling.\nUsing something contradictive in modelling is not approved of.\nWonder why?", "Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have\nsincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart.", " \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \nGod being unknowable, I can't comment on His motives, but it would be\ndistressing if He allowed us to misunderstand Him through no fault of \nour own. For sanity's sake we must assume, if we believe in Him at all,\nthat His message comes through somehow. The question is whether it comes \nthrough immediately to every individual, or is contained in a complex \ncanon that must be interpreted by experts in consultation with one another, \nor is transmitted directly through appointed representatives who are free\nto interpret, extend and modify the canon. If God's message is indeed\nmediated, the further problem arises as to whether the individual under-\nstands the mediated message fully and clearly. Since the responsibility \nfor understanding lies ultimately with the individual, we must assume that \nGod in His benevolence guides each individual to the appropriate source \nfor that individual, whereof the person may or may not drink. \n \n \n \nYour example is complicated in our age by the thin line between morality\nand politeness. You might have said \"burp\", for burping and swearing carry\nabout the same stigma today. If you are talking about \"taking the Lord's \nname in vain\" as a serious transgression, then this example is more a case of \nhypocrisy than of varying moral codes.\n \nIf there is an absolute moral code, propositions or laws in that code apply\nabsolutely and universally, by definition. Conceivably some moral codes\ncould be subsets of the universal code, as you say at the outset. So, for\nexample, God's code could include, \"Thou shalt not create Beings without\na hospitable planet to live on\", but this law would be inapplicable to us.\nNevertheless, we would be entitled to suppose that all laws applicable\nto us are also applicable to God.\n \nBut when you begin to ask what laws might appear in God's moral code, you have\na sense of the absurdity of the question. Does God make laws for Himself to\nfollow? Perhaps God is not the sort of being to which the category \"morality\"\ncan be sensibly applied.", "\nYeah, but these were not the wives. The wives came from Nod, apparently\na land being developed by another set of gods.", "II SAMUEL 24: And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel,\nand he moved David against them to say, Go, number Isreal and Judah.", "[cont. Dr. James DeYoung; #3]\n\nR. Scroggs\n\n Robin Scroggs has built upon the discussion of his predecessors and\nsuggested a new twist to the word. Scroggs believes that arsenokoitai is a\n\"Hellenistic Jewish coinage, perhaps influenced by awareness of rabbinic\nterminology.\" The term is derived from Lev 18\"22 & 20:13 where the LXX\njuxtaposes the two words arsenos (\"male\") and koiten (\"bed\"), and represents\nthe Hebrew miskab zabar (\"lying with a male\"). Yet he believes that Paul did\nnot originate the term, but borrowed it from \"circles of Hellenistic Jews\nacquainted with rabbinic discussions\" (180 n.14). It was invented to avoid\n\"contact with the usual Greek terminology\" (108). If this is true, Scroggs\nobserves, it explains why the word does not appear in Greco-Roman discussions\nof pederasty and why later patristic writers avoided it. It was meaningless to\nnative-speaking Greeks (108).\n\n Scroggs takes the second part as the active word and the first word as the\nobject of the second part, thus differing from Boswell's \"learned discussion\"\n(107). Yet Scroggs understands the general meaning of \"one who lies with a\nmale\" to have a very narrow reference. With the preceding malokoi (I Cor 6:9),\nwhich Scroggs interprets as \"the effeminate call-boy,\" arsenokoitai is the\nactive partner \"who keeps the malakos of the 'mistress' or who hires him on\noccasion to satisfy his sexual desires\" (108). Hence arsenokoitai does not\nrefer to homosexuality in general, to female homosexuality, or to the generic\nmodel of pederasty. It certainly cannot refer to the modern gay model, he\naffirms (109).\n This is Scrogg's interpretation of the term in I Tim 1:10 also. The\ncombination of pornoi (\"fornicators\"), arsenokoitai and andrapodistai (\"slave\ndealers\") refers to \"male prostitutes, males who lie [with them], and slave\ndealers [who procure them]\" (120). It again refers to that specific form of\npederasty \"which consisted of the enslaving of boys as youths for sexual\npurposes, and the use of these boys by adult males\" (121). Even \"serious\nminded pagan authors\" condemned this form of pederasty. He then uses these\ninstances of arsenokoitai in I Cor and I Tim to interpret the apparently\ngeneral condemnation of both female and male homosexuality in Rom 1. \nConsequently Paul \"Must have had, could only have had pederasty in mind\" (122).\nWe cannot know what Paul would have said about the \"contemporary model of\nadult/adult mutuality in same sex relation ships\" (122).\n\n In relating these terms to the context and to contemporary ethical\nconcerns, Scroggs emphasizes the point that the specific items in the list of\nvices in I Cor 6 have no deliberate, intended meaning in Paul. The form and\nfunction of the catalogue of vices are traditional and stereotyped. Any\nrelationship between an individual item in the list and the context was usually\nnonexistent. He concludes that Paul \"does not care about any specific item in\nthe lists\" (104). \n\n Both on the basis of the meaning of the terms and of the literary\nphenomenon of a \"catalogue of vices,\" Scroggs argues that the Scriptures are\n\"irrelevant and provide no help in the heated debate today\" (129). The \"model\nin today's Christian homosexual community is so different from the model\nattacked by the NT\" that \"Biblical judgments against homosexuality are not\nrelevant to today's debate. They should no longer be used in denominational\ndiscussions about homosexuality, should in no way be a weapon to justify\nrefusal of ordination. . . \" (127).\n\n REACTIONS TO THE NEW INTERPRETATIONS OF ARSENOKOITAI\n\nD. Wright\n\n In more recent years the positions of Bailey, Boswell, and Scroggs have\ncome under closer scrutiny. Perhaps the most critical evaluation of Boswell's\nview is that by David Wright. In his thorough article, Wright points out\nseveral shortcomings of Boswell's treatment of arsenokoitai. He faults\nBoswell for failing to cite, or citing inaccurately, all the references to Lev\n18:22 and 20:13 in the church fathers, such as Eusebius, the \"Apostolic\nConstitutions,\" Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian and Origen (127-28). \nBoswell has not considered seriously enough the possibility that the term\nderives either its form or its meaning from the Leviticus passages (129). This\nis significant, for if the term is so derived, it clearly refutes Boswell's\nclaim that the first half of the word (arseno-) denotes not the object but the\ngender of the second half (-koitai). The LXX must mean \"a male who sleeps with\na male,\" making arseno- the object.\n\n Wright also faults Boswell's claims regarding linguistic features of the\nterm, including suggested parallels (129). Though Boswell claims that\ncompounds with arseno- employ it objectively and those with arreno- employ it\nas an adjective, Wright believes that the difference between the two is merely\none of dialectical diversity: \"No semantic import attaches to the difference\nbetween the two forms\" (131). Wright believes that in most compounds in which\nthe second half is a verb or has a verbal force, the first half denotes its\nobject and where \"the second part is substantival, the first half denotes its\ngender\" (132). \n\n It is with Boswell's treatment of the early church fathers that Wright\ntakes special issue, because the former has failed to cite all the sources. \nFor example, Aristides' Apology (c. AD 138) probably uses arrenomaneis,\nandrobaten, and arsenokoitias all with the same basic meaning of male\nhomosexuality (133), contrary to Boswell's discussion. Boswell fails to cite\nHippolytus (Refut. Omn. Haer. 5:26:22-23) and improperly cites Eusebius and the\nSyriac writer Bardensanes. The latter uses Syriac terms that are identical to\nthe Syriac of I Cor 6:9 and I Tim 1:10 (133-34). \n\n Next Wright shows how the early church fathers use arsenokoitai in\nparallel with paidophthoria referring to male homosexuality with teenagers, the\ndominant form of male homosexuality among the Greeks (134). Sometimes this\nparallelism occurs in the threefold listings of moicheia (\"adultery\"), porneia\n(\"fornication\"), and paidophthoria, with arsenokoitai replacing paidophthoris\n(136). Clement of Alexandria in Protr. 10:108:5 cites the second table of the\nTen Commandments as \"You shall not kill, ou moicheuseis (\"you shall not commit\nadultery\"), ou paidophthoreseis (\"you shall not practice homosexuality with\nboys\"), you shall not steal. . .\" (150 n. 43).\n\n Another occurrence of arsenokoitein (\"commit homosexuality\") exists in the\nSibylline Oracles 2:71-73. It may be, Wright observes, that the word was\ncoined by a Jewish pre-Christian writer in a Hellenistic setting represented by\nOr.Sib., book 2 (137-38).\n\n Wright also discusses uses of arsenokoitai in Rhetorius (6th c.) who drew\nupon the first century AD writer Teucer, in Macarius (4th-5th c.), and in John\nthe Faster (d. 595) (139-40). The last in particular bears the idea of\nhomosexual intercourse, contrary to Boswell.\n\n Wright next replies to Boswell's contention that the term would not be\nabsent \"from so much literature about homosexuality if that is what it denoted\n(140-41). Wright points out that it should not be expected in writers prior to\nthe first century AD since it did not exist before then, that the Greeks used\ndozens of words and phrases to refer to homosexuality, that some sources (e.g.\nDidache) show no acquaintance with Paul's letters or deliberately avoid citing\nScripture, and that Boswell neglects citing several church fathers (140-41). \n\n Boswell's treatment of Chrysostom in particular draws Wright's attention\n(141-44). Boswell conspicuously misrepresents the witness of Chrysostom,\nomitting references and asserting what is patently untrue. Chrysostom gives a\nlong uncompromising and clear indictment of homosexuality in his homily on Rom\n1:26. Boswell has exaggerated Chrysostom's infrequent use of the term. Wright\nobserves that Boswell has \"signally failed to demonstrate any us of\narsenokoites etc. in which it patently does not denote male homosexual\nactivity\" (144). It is infrequent because of its relatively technical nature\nand the availability of such a term as paidophthoria that more clearly\nspecified the prevailing form of male homosexuality in the Greco-Roman world. \n\n Wright also surveys the Latin, Syriac, and Coptic translations of I Tim\nand I Cor. All three render arsenokoitai with words that reflect the meaning\n\"homosexual\" i.e., they understand arseno- as the object of the second half of\nthe word (144-45). None of these primary versions supports Boswell's limited\nconclusion based on them.\n\n Wright concludes his discussion with a few observations about the\ncatalogues of vices as a literary form. He believes that such lists developed\nin late Judaism as Hellenistic Jews wrote in clear condemnation of\nhomosexuality in the Greek world. This paralleled the increased concern on the\npart of moral philosophers over homosexual indulgence. The term came into\nbeing under the influence of the LXX (145) so that writers spoke \"generally of\nmale activity with males rather than specifically categorized male sexual\nengagement with paides\" (146). If arsenokoitai and paidophthoria were\ninterchangeable, it is because the former encompassed the latter (146).\n\n In summary, Wright seeks to show that arsenokoitai is a broad term meaning\nhomosexuality and arises with Judaism. The views of Boswell, Scroggs, and\nothers who limit the term to \"active male prostitutes\" or pederasty are without\nsignificant support from linguistic and historical studies. ", "\n\nThe Moderator of the General Assembly, the Rev. John Fife, visited our\nchurch about a week ago (just 4 days after Rev. Spahr--it's been a busy\nweek for our small church!!). He was asked specifically about the issue\nof homosexuality and what he thinks will happen at the GA meeting next\nmonth. Evidently, there are 15-20 known resolutions pending that range\nthe gamut from \"outlawing\" homosexuality altogether to \"legalizing\" it\ncompletely. He will readily admit that this is probabaly the most difficult\nissue that the church has had to deal with since the Presbyterian church\nsplit in two over the issue of slavery more than 100 years ago. Without\nquestion, the issue may split the church again after we've been reunited\nfor all of a dozen years or so. He is hopeful that it will not and is\npushing the same attitude that helped the church deal with the abortion\nissue last year as a solution.\n\nHe is hoping to pass a resolution that more or less states that we, the\nmembers of the church \"Agree to Disagree\" on the issue, admitting that\nboth sides have honestly studied the Scriptures and had the Spirit lead\nthem to different conclusions. It worked last year when the abortion\nissue threatened to do more or less the same thing, and he is hopeful that\nthe GA can foster a loving and caring attitude about people who disagree\nwith their own view.\n\n--\nCliff Slaughterbeck | \nDept. of Physics, FM-15 | It's time for the sermon on the\nUniversity of Washington | Grand Torino!\nSeattle, WA 98195 |", "According to what I have read on Biblical idioms, speaking \"in X's\nname\" is a standard Aramaic/Hebrew legal idiom for what we today\nwould call Power of Attorney. A person from Jesus' culture authorized\nto conduct business \"in John's name\" had full authority over John's\nfinancial affairs, but was held under a solemn fiduciary obligation to\nwork only for John's benefit and consonant with John's wishes. It was\nnot required for the steward to preface each business transaction with\n\"in John's name\"; it was sufficient to have valid power of attorney\nand be operating in good faith. (Note the overlap here between legal\nand religious definitions of \"faith\".)\n\nWith this cultural background, praying \"in Jesus' name\" does not\nmandate a particular verbal formula; rather it requires that the\npetitioner be operating faithfully and consciously within an analogous\n\"fiduciary\" relationship with Jesus and for the purposes of His\nKingdom. The message of \"praying in Jesus' name\" is thus closely\naligned with the parable of the talents and other passages about God's\ndelegation of Kingdom business to his stewards, both resources and\nresponsibilities. This idea of praying \"in Jesus' name\" is not only\npresent but prominent in the Lord's Prayer, although the verbal\nforumula is absent.\n\nThe act of praying the words \"In Jesus' Name\" may be beneficial if\nthey cause us to clarify the relationship of our requests to the\nadvancement of God's Kingdom. For that reason, I'm not quite ready\nto say that the praying the formula is without meaning.\n\nPrayers to God for other purposes (desperation, anger, thanksgiving,\netc.) don't seem to be in this category at all, whether uttered by\nChristian or non-Christian, whether B.C. or A.D. (that's B.C.E. or\nC.E. for you P.C. :-). I don't see anything in Christ's words to\ncontradict the idea that God deals with all prayers according to His\nomniscience and grace.\n\nVan Kelly\nvek@research.att.com\n", "\n Thanks for the etymology lesson, but I actually know what \"orthodox\" means.\nYou're avoiding my question, however, which was: From what body of theology\ndoes your version of orthodoxy come? You seem to simply be saying that\nwhatever *you* understand the Bible to say is \"orthodox.\"\n\n\n You are obviously mistaken, since many, many people have read the Bible and\nmany do not agree with you on this point. Once again, Robert, is your\ninterpretation the only \"correct\" or \"orthodox\" one?\n\n\n\n This whole string began as a response to your attacks on Mormonism; no one\nis attacking your personal beliefs, only your tendency to present them as\n\"orthodoxy.\" I don't much care *what* you believe about the Bible; just don't\npresent you personal understanding as the only \"orthodox\" one.\n\n\n I have never attacked your specific beliefs -- that's *your* approach,\nremember?\n Stating that other people who depend solely on the Bible have other views\nis indeed proof that the Bible can be interpreted many ways, which has been\nmy whole point all along. The specifics of your belief are your business;\njust don't pretend that they are anything more than your personal\nintepretation, and be careful about crying \"heresy\" based on your private\nbelief system.\n\n", "\nYes, worshipping Jesus as the super-saver is indeed hero-worshipping\nof the grand scale. Worshipping Lenin that will make life pleasant\nfor the working people is, eh, somehow similar, or what.\n \nThe notion of Lenin was on the borderline of supernatural insights\ninto how to change the world, he wasn't a communist God, but he was\nthe man who gave presents to kids during Christmas.\n \n\nDon't know what they were, but they were fanatics indeed.\n\nCheers,\nKent", "And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone,\nable to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in\nthe hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the\ntruth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the\ndevil, who has taken them captive to do his will. \nIITimothy 2:24-26\n", "\n\n\n\n i guess i ought not conclude from this, then, that since you didn't ask to\nbe created, you don't care if you go to hell. :)\n\n\n\n i don't consider myself an unthinking sheep. the bible says god created\nus to be in communion and obedience to him. the first and only rule was\nto not eat of a certain tree, or else the punishment is distance from him\nand physical death. god's intention in creating us is to have a relationship\nwith us. the bible documents god's attempts to have that relationship\nculminating in the person of jesus to bear the consequences of all sin so\nthat all who accept him can have a relationship with god again: the purpose\nof creation.", "\nRemember the armor of God? The sword that Christians wield is the\nWord of God, the Bible.\n\nGod be with you,\n\nMalcolm Lee :)\n", "\nI'm not surprised that you see no wisdom in them. That is because your\npremises are wrong from the word \"Go\". You claim that Christianity is\nbased on blind faith, but this simply is not so. Just look at the\ncurrent thread on the evidence for Jesus' resurrection for evidence\nthat Jesus was real and that he triumphed over death.\n\nFurthermore, you say that Christians hold to their beliefs \"regardless of\nany evidence that you may find to the contrary.\" Without any evidence\nto support your claim, this statement is little more than an ad hominem \nargument.\n\nMind you, I don't mean this as a personal attack. I'm merely pointing out\nthe intellectual dishonesty behind condemning Christianity in this fashion.\nIt would make much more sense if you could prove that all Christians do \nbase their belief on empty nothings, and that they do ignore all evidence to \nthe contrary. Only then can you expect your attack to make sense.\n ", "Russell Turpin, as is his wont, has raised some interesting issues \nin his struggle with the Christian texts and the Christians. \nUnfortunately, he seems to be hoping for simplicity where it is \nnot available. The lukewarm stew he detects may well be an inevitable \nresult of the divine mixing himself up with a bunch of losers such \nas humanity. \n\nAlso unfortunately (perhaps) I have a deadline in two weeks, the \nresponsibility for which prevents me, in good conscience, \nfrom writing a more considered response and fully entering the\nfray, as it were. \n\nLet me then say what I can, briefly.\n\n-----\n\n\nThis point, for the net.browsers who also still read books, is\npursued throughly in Kaufmann, Critique_of_Religion_and_Philosophy.\n\n\nThis is a theological statement worthy of Barth.\nDr Turpin (DD) may wear the black robe of Geneva yet! :-)\n\n\nThis requires the assumption that all interpretations are\nequally valid, that there is no way of reasonably distinguishing\namong them. I wouldn't make that assumption; I don't think it is\na reasonable assumption. \n\n\nMichael, and I, and others, read 'the Bible' with Christian\nglasses. Among the things that this should imply is that the\nNT informs the OT, even to the point of dominanting it. Some\npoints in the OT (ceremonial & dietary laws) are explicitly \nabrogated by the NT texts. To drive Russell Turpin's point with\nadequacy, one needs to begin with NT texts (probably from Matthew,\nand probably about damnation) (Just trying to help :-) )\n\nThis part is, I discover, what most moves me to post:\n\nmls> I am a \"radical\" Christian *only* in that I take the gospel seriously.\n\n\nRussell Turpin's 'No' here is misplaced, not to say inappropriate.\nMichael's self-description much govern. The equation of radical = liberal, \nwhich seems implied by Russell Turpin is wrong. Radical conservatives are \npossible (if sadly lacking in numbers at present). Thomas Merton\nwas a radical, even though conservative in some ways. St Francis\nwas a radical, similarly. How many examples are needed?\n\nmls> ... Why don't I and the (myriads of) other Christians like me\nmls> tell you something about Christianity? ...\n\nMichael's question gets to a heart of the matter (Klingons have\ntwo hearts, so my metaphor is not mixed, just extraterrestrial :-) )\nRussell Turpin (in an earlier post) had said that Michael (Michael's\ntheological positions, actually) didn't tell him much about Christianity;\nDean Simeon responds (this time gently): 'What do you mean?' More\ndirect, perhaps, would have been: 'What could you possibly mean?'\nThe implied rhetorical effort, to separate Michael from the \ntradition, is a failure. Michael is in the tradition. If your idea\nof the tradition doesn't include him, Change your idea of the tradition!\n\n\nHow can one answer this while staying on the more general issue?\nI'm on the other side of the interpretive fence (from Michael)\non this issue, yet '*nothing*' is a hideous overstatement.\n\nOne verse is enough to refute it; I'll offer two, from\nPaul (of all people):\n\n'In Jesus Christ there is neither male nor female...'(Galatians 3:28\n{I don't quote single verses as a rule, and I don't carry \nthem in my head}) and '*Nothing* shall separate us from the glory of God...' \n(roughly, from Romans). [If Russell would promise to convert based\non these or any other verses, I'd promise to get the full context\nfor any that he requires :-) :-)]\n\n\nThis conclusion does not follow, even in short, from the\nargument that goes before. A surprising logical ellipsis.\n\nDave Davis, ddavis@ma30.bull.com\nThese are my opinions & activities alone\n\nQOTD:", "the prophets who were there when the foundation was laid for the house of the\nLORD Almighty, let your hands be strong so that the temple may be built.", "\n: Logic alert - argument from incredulity. Just because it is hard for you \n: to believe this doesn't mean that it isn't true. Liars can be very pursuasive\n: just look at Koresh that you yourself cite.\n\nThis is whole basis of a great many here rejecting the Christian\naccount of things. In the words of St. Madalyn Murrey-O'Hair, \"Face it\nfolks, it's just silly ...\". Why is it okay to disbelieve because of\nyour incredulity if you admit that it's a fallacy?", "\n Ah, now here is the core question. Let me suggest a scenario.\n\n We will grant that a God exists, and uses revelation to communicate\nwith humans. (Said revelation taking the form (paraphrased from your\nown words) 'This infinitely powerful deity grabs some poor schmuck,\nmakes him take dictation, and then hides away for a few hundred years'.)\n Now, there exists a human who has not personally experienced a\nrevelation. This person observes that not only do these revelations seem\nto contain elements that contradict rather strongly aspects of the\nobserved world (which is all this person has ever seen), but there are\nmany mutually contradictory claims of revelation.\n\n Now, based on this, can this person be blamed for concluding, absent\na personal revelation of their own, that there is almost certainly\nnothing to this 'revelation' thing?\n\n\n Absent this better language, and absent observations in support of the\nclaims of revelation, can one be blamed for doubting the whole thing?\n\n Here is what I am driving at: I have thought a long time about this. I\nhave come to the honest conclusion that if there is a deity, it is\nnothing like the ones proposed by any religion that I am familiar with.\n Now, if there does happen to be, say, a Christian God, will I be held\naccountable for such an honest mistake?\n\n Sincerely,\n\n Ray Ingles ingles@engin.umich.edu", "In djohnson@cs.ucsd.edu\n\n\nI'm afraid I see that question as very tendentious. Try rephrasing it:\n\n\tWhat's more important to Christians? Love of God or love\n\tof other human beings?\n\nto which of course the only conceivable answer is that the one is like\nthe other. I am *deeply* suspicious of any \"flavor\" of Christianity\nwhich would elevate one clause of the Great Commandment to a \"priority\"\nover the other such as to claim a conflict. True, we are told to let\nthe dead bury the dead, to \"hate\" family rather than let it keep us from\nfollowing Christ. But the dichotomy here is not one between love of our\nfellows and love of God, but of allowing *social* constructs to blind us\nto the presense of God. It is particularly satanic to twist love of God\nin such a manner as to become an excuse to treat others as on a different\nlevel than the one who is so caught up in \"love\" of God.\n\nThe trouble comes in the relation of human love and human sex. Yes, it\nhas sometimes been the case that the Church has \"taught\" that all sex\nwas nasty, evil, sinful stuff. But when man and wife leave their parental\nhomes to become helpmates, living in one flesh, it is the sex that is the\nvehicle of becoming \"one flesh\" (if you doubt me, read St. Paul on what\nis wrong with frequenting prostitutes :-)). Less provocatively, what I\nmean is just this: sexual bonding is a deeply founded aspect of our social\ninteraction, and in particular is the foundation of the institution of\nmarriage, so that unlike with many mammals, human males remain with and\nfoster the children they beget and support their children's mothers.\nThis is the schema behind Genesis 2:18-24 (and behind Jesus' citation of\nthat passage.)\n\n\t[ I observe, by the way, that not all human males in fact do as\n\t I have just described; but another thing that characterizes\n\t human societies is our raising of *non*begotten children, not\n\t only orphans and adoptees and the like, but products of the\n\t quite common infidelities of humans to their spouses. We are\n\t in this not unique in the animal world, but the full extent of\n\t social consequences and implications is most intricate for us. ]\n\nYes, of course it sometimes goes \"wrong\" -- like all else we do, it is\ninfected with sin, and you find married \"couples\" where there is no bond,\nand people so deliriously addicted to the initial stages of sexual bond\nformation (the \"infatuation\", \"falling in love\" phase) that they break\nany forming bond in order to keep stepping over the threshold of the deep\nunity God has prepared for us, and stepping back out again right away.\nSatan may indeed *use* sex as a very handy tool to corrupt human love --\nbut in the Edenic creation, that is not its nature, and with God's grace\nunder the power of Christ to make all things new it need not be a problem\nfor Christians (though we must be vigilant, even in Christ, as the devil\nis watchful, prowling around like a roaring lion seeking someone to devour.)\n\nSo, returning to the original question, what is more important to STRAIGHT\nChristians? Sex, or Christianity? Paul, clearly, tended to think that\nsex was at best a distraction from Christianity (though to be charitable\nto him, his context was in expectation of immediate parousia, so that the\nhard TASKS of a married union -- the lifelong building and adaptation to\neach other -- seemed somehow to undercut the \"proper\" preparation for an\nimmediate eschaton. Since we *do not* know the hour of return, we should\nact *both* with instant readiness for that *and* with a commitiment to our\nmates that proposes a long lifetime together. And telling people *not* to\nbond in such a perspective strikes me as crippling us in the second clause\nof the the commandment to love. I would claim that only a very few saints\nhave the CAPACITY to deeply love (without sexual tinges or complication,\nmind you) their fellow human beings unless they have had a deeply spiritual\nlife in married union growing together as one flesh -- and that means in\nthe type case, with a persistent and continued sexual relationship. We\nare human, and little good comes of trying to \"mortify the flesh\" to the\npoint of pretending to be otherwise, pretending NOT to be sexual beings.\n\n\nIt depends entirely on context. If that context is major hypocrisy\non the part of those who find us \"stumbling blocks\" I am much less of\na mind to efface myself so that they can pontificate about MY sins.\n\nThere are some people for whom a life of celibacy is a spritual gift,\nand maybe even a victory against a to-them troubling sexual urge that\nseems to them to lead only to sin. Nothing I say should ever be read\nas demeaning such a gift. Nor the even rarer gift of love for all our\nconspecifics, and indeed for all God's creation, that can develop to\nthe full *without* the tutoring of a spousal/helpmate marriage founded\nin sex. But there is a difference between spiritual gifts and penance;\ntelling people that they HAVE to have a particular gift (or else? what?)\nis fraught with manipulation and disregard of the differences of our\nspiritual endowments from God. To one person is given the gift of\nspeaking in toungues, to another intepretation of toungues; to yet\nanother prophecy; and to still another teaching. The notion that some\n*particular* gift is required of *all* is one of the earliest heresies.", "\nSure, why not? But, are you using Paul to correct the words of Jesus?\n\n\n\"So *anyone* who dissolves even one of the smallest commands and teaches\nothers the same way, will be known as the lowest in the kingdom of the\nskies; whereas *anyone* who keeps the commands and teaches them too, will\nbe known as *someone* great in the kingdom of the skies.\" Mat5:19 (Gaus)\n\nAre you an \"anyone\" or are you a \"no one?\"\n\nWhy not assume, that since Jesus didn't say that his words apply only to\nJews, that they apply to all human beings, irregardless of race or sex?\n\nWhy not assume, that even though Jesus did not mention your name, still\nJesus was talking directly to you?\n\n\nDoes it say that it applies to *you*? Are you anyone or no one?\n\n\nEx20:8-11(JPS) Remember the sabbath day and keep it holy. Six days you\nshall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of\nthe LORD your God; you shall not do any work - you, your son or\ndaughter, your male or female slave, or your cattle, or the stranger who\nis within your settlements. For in six days the LORD made heaven and\nearth and sea, and all that is in them, and He rested on the seventh\nday; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and hollowed it.\n\nNote: There is no specific requirement for worship here, however I for\none would not be so bold as to call these verses a \"ceremonial detail.\"\n\n\nDon't many Christians still practice circumcision?\n\n\nIt's unfortunate that Jesus didn't use your name directly, or maybe\nJesus did? Are you somebody or nobody?\n\n\nIf you don't see a problem, then perhaps there is none. As Paul closes\nRomans 14 (Gaus):\n\n In short, pursue the ends of peace and of building each other up.\nDon't let dietary considerations undo the work of God. Everything may be\nclean, but it's evil for the person who eats it in an offensive spirit.\nBetter not to eat the meat or drink the wine or whatever else your\nbrother is offended by. As for the faith that you have, keep that\nbetween yourself and God. The person is in luck who doesn't condemn\nhimself for what he samples. On the other hand, the person with doubts\nabout something who eats it anyway is guilty, because he isn't acting on\nhis faith, and any failure to act on faith is a sin.", "\nthe classic references in this area are Jacques Ellul for a\nliberal/evangelical perspective and Os Guiness for a straight\nevangelical view. If you want to look at non-christian sources\ntry Alvin Toffler as the perennial optimist. His views while\nblatently non christian explore where technology may be going.\n\n\nThis is regardless of technology. Be careful to separate the issues of\nrelated to speed and dispersion of technology (how far the letter\nwent and how quickly it got there) and the message being passed in the\ntechnology (something that seems to be totally wrong.)\n\n\nWhen lecturing in this area I challenge my (non-christan/atheistic) class\nabout the impact technology has on life, quality of life and the rights\nthat they consider important. Depending on how you work out your\nfaith will determine your response to the use of technology. For example\nfriends of mine are considering IVF due to a life threatening situation the\nwife is going through; when it is over they will have the baby. (God\nwilling). In this case the technology is available and my friends have to\ndecide what to do. In all cases though you must decide if the technology\nis against God's revealed word.\n\nRegards\n David", "\nAnyone from Alabama knows it should be:\n\nIs \"The Bear\" Catholic?\nDoes a Pope shit in the woods?", "\n\nAnyone who dies for a \"cause\" runs the risk of dying for a lie. As for\npeople being able to tell if he was a liar, well, we've had grifters and\ncharlatans since the beginning of civilization. If David Copperfield had\nbeen the Messiah, I bet he could have found plenty of believers. \nJesus was hardly the first to claim to be a faith healer, and he wasn't the\nfirst to be \"witnessed.\" What sets him apart?\n\n\nRubbish. Nations have followed crazies, liars, psychopaths, and \nmegalomaniacs throughout history. Hitler, Tojo, Mussolini, Khomeini,\nQadaffi, Stalin, Papa Doc, and Nixon come to mind...all from this century.\nKoresh is a non-issue.\n\n\n\nTake a discrete mathematics or formal logic course. There are flaws in your\nlogic everywhere. And as I'm sure others will tell you, read the FAQ!\n\n\n\nOf course, you have to believe the Bible first. Just because something is\nwritten in the Bible does not mean it is true, and the age of that tome plus\nthe lack of external supporting evidence makes it less credible. So if you\ndo quote from the Bible in the future, try to back up that quote with \nsupporting evidence. Otherwise, you will get flamed mercilessly.\n\n\n\nJust like weight lifting or guitar playing, eh? I don't know how you \ndefine the world \"total,\" but I would imagine a \"total sacrafice [sp]\nof everything for God's sake\" would involve more than a time commitment.\n\nYou are correct about our tendency to \"box everything into time units.\"\nWould you explain HOW one should involove God in sports and (hehehe)\ntelevision?", " \n: There are a couple of things about your post and others in this thread\n: that are a little confusing. An atheist is one for whom all things can\n: be understood as processes of nature - exclusively.\n\nThis definition does not include all atheists (see the FAQ). However,\nI (for one) do think there is no need to invoke any divine or\nspiritual explanations. \n\nIt makes a big difference to claim that all things can be understood\nas natural processes, and to claim that our observations do not\nrequire us to postulate any divine intervention, or anything spiritual,\nfor that matter. Humans are not omnipotent, and neither is science.\nHowever, science has one advantage theology doesn't: it is self-\ncorrecting, with nature as its judge. \n\nIt is delightful to see how scientific inquiry is revealing a self-\nconsistent, simple picture of our universe. Science is no longer\na bunch of separate branches, it is one. From particle physics to\npsychology. And no aspect of our life, or our universe, is safe\nfrom its stern and stony eye. Not even our consciousness.\n\n There is no need\n: for any recourse to Divnity to describe or explain anything. There is\n: no purpose or direction for any event beyond those required by\n: physics, chemistry, biology, etc.; everything is random, nothing is\n: determnined.\n\nActually, determinism vs. indeterminism is a philosophical question,\nand science cannot say whether the whole thing is actually somehow\nsuperdeterministic or not. I think the question does not have\nany meaning, as far as individual human beings go. If their apparent\nfree will is an illusion, it does not appear to be so from their\nperspective. Bill, can you say _for sure_ whether you have a free\nwill or not? \n\n: This would also have to include human intelligence of course and all\n: its products. There is nothing requiring that life evolve or that it\n: acquire intelligence, it's just a happy accident.\n\nMaybe. Who are we to tell? It seems intelligence is useful - when\nduring the history of Earth has _one species_ been able to control\none third of the whole biosphere? This can still be a result of \nnumerous happy accidents our genetic machinery blindly replicates\nand preserves. Even that machinery can be result of the same\nprinciple - only the systems that can start replicating will\nsurvive, those which don't don't make it. (Recommended reading: t.o)\n\n: For an atheist, no\n: event can be preferred to another or be said to have more or less\n: value than another in any naturalistic sense, and no thought -about-\n: an event can have value. \n\nFrom whose perspective? I value events and things subjectively, from\nmy perspective. Nature does not have values, because it does not have\na perspective - values arise from awareness. If I have a subjective\nperspective, it is easy to assume that other people also do, and if\nI think about what it would it be like in their position, I will\neventually discover the Golden Rule. Morality is not necessarily\na gift from heavens, in fact, it may be a product of evolution.\nPerhaps we are aware of ourselves because a sense of identity\nis helpful, allows us to play the roles of others and make us respect\nothers who seem to have identity, too. \n\nBill, have you ever read Aristotle? Try his Ethica Nikomakhea (sp.)\nfor starters.\n\n: How then can an atheist judge value? What is the basis for criticizing\n: the values ennumerated in the Bible or the purposes imputed to God? On\n: what grounds can the the behavior of the reliogious be condemned? It\n: seems that, in judging the values that motivate others to action, you\n: have to have some standard against which conduct is measured, but what\n: in nature can serve that purpose? What law of nature can you invoke to\n: establish your values.\n\nC.S. Lewis tells us that this argument was the main reason why\nhe abandoned his atheism and became Christian. The argument is\nseverely flawed.\n\nSome values, such as the Golden Rule, can have a rational basis. Some\nothers, like the basic idea of wanting to live, has probably its\nroots in the way our brains are wired. Lewis ignored the very real\npossiblity that natural selection could also favour altruistic\nbehaviour, and morality as well. Indeed, as humans evolved better\nand better in building and using tools, they also became better\nat killing each other. It is a logical necessity that evolution could\nonly favour those who knew how to use tools, but not against one's\nown people.\n\nThe Bible reveals quite nicely that the morality of the early Jews\nwas not beyond this. A simple set of rules to hold the people\ntogether, under one god. Their god did not care much about people\nof other nations. \n\nAt the time of the NT, things were quite different - the Jews\nwere under rule of an _empire_, and could no longer simply ignore\nthe Gentiles. A new situation required a new morality, and along\nwith it a new religion was born. (A mutation in a meme pool.)\n\n: Since every event is entirely and exclusively a physical event, what\n: difference could it possibly make what -anyone- does, religious or\n: otherwise, there can be no -meaning- or gradation of value. The only\n: way an atheist can object to -any- behaviour is to admit that the\n: objection is entirely subjective and that he(she) just doesn't like it\n: - that's it. Any value judgement must be prefaced by the disclaimer\n: that it is nothing more than a matter of personal opinion and carries\n: no weight in any \"absolute\" sense.\n\nIt looks like you haven't bothered to read philosophy. Whenever there\nis an observer, there is a subjective point of view, which may \nvalue its existence and happiness (even if that were just a result\nof some physical event), and other's happiness, too, if the observer\ncomes to think about it. In an absolutely objective sense, that is,\nwithout any observers or subjects, moral judgments lose their\nmeaning. \n\nIt is not possible for a value to simply exist without a point of\nview. This includes gods, too, their values are only _their_ \npersonal judgments, not absolute truths, since such truths\ndo not exist. \n\nThe fact that most people do not deliberately want to hurt others\nis a manifestation of the way we have fought for our existence\nby becoming social beings who can think and value others'\nexistence.\n\nMorality is not property of humans alone - chimps, dolphins and\nmany other species show great care for each other. Dolphins have\nsometimes saved humans from drowning, a good deed indeed. \n\n: That you don't like what God told people to do says nothing about God\n: or God's commands, it says only that there was an electrical event in your\n: nervous system that created an emotional state that your mind coupled\n: with a pre-existing thought-set to form that reaction. That your\n: objections -seem- well founded is due to the way you've been\n: conditioned; there is no \"truth\" content. The whole of your\n: intellectual landscape is an illusion, a virtual reality.\n\nThe last statement does not logically follow. In fact, there is\nevery reason to believe our thoughts can model reality very\nwell, and our senses can convey reliable information. Solipsism\nis still a logical possibility, but not a very likely one.\n\nYou are continuously mixing two different views: the subjective\npoint of view (which we all share) and an objective point of view,\n_which does not exist_. Any observer or thinker, any personal being,\nhas its own point of view. It does not matter whether this point\nof view is a result of some physical events or not, it does not\ncease to be subjective. \n\nFrom a non-observers non-point of view, values do not exist. Neither\ndoes pain, or pleasure, or beauty, or love. Such things are \ninherently subjective. \n\nOnce again, if god wants wives to submit to their husbands, or even\nto make a leap of faith into the unknown, or wants to punish us if\nwe don't, I disagree with his morals. I do not think my morals come\nfrom any supreme being - to remove my morals means the same than\nto make me a zombie, a machine without a single thought. If god\ngave us morality to judge, but I disagree with him, it is not my\nfault. He is free to replace my morals. I cannot see what is the\npoint of giving someone a moral system which disagrees with one's\nown and then to get mad at this. \n\nGod must be schizophrenic.\n\n: All of this being so, you have excluded\n: yourself from any discussion of values, right, wrong, goood, evil,\n: etc. and cannot participate. Your opinion about the Bible can have no\n: weight whatsoever.\n\nNeither can the opinion of any god, for that matter. I cannot understand\nwhy a subjective opinion of a thing made of matter is in any way\nless credible than an opinion of a thing made of something else.\n\nBill, take note: Absolute values must be independent of _any_ being,\n_including_ gods. If god has a subjective viewpoint, it is his\nown point of view, and his morals are his own. \n\nPetri\n", "\nIt is told in the Gospels that the Pharisees (sp.?) and scribes bribed\nthe Roman soldiers to say that the Diciples stole his body in the night.\nGood enough excuse for the Jewish and Roman objectives (of that day).", "\n\n\n\n\n\nWell, suppose your mother was a crack addict and crack user/abuser while\nshe was pregnant? Suppose your husband gave you some SDT (this recently\nhappened to a close friend of my wife and mine)?\n\nOFTEN, the consequences of our sin are at least partially inflicted on\ninnocent people. Several times in the OT, this is pointed out, even\nsaying that descendants would suffer consequences for a person's sin\nfor several generations. Even today, we see multi-generational (to\ncoin a phrase) effects from alcoholism, child abuse, and spousal\nabuse just to name three.\n\nSo, God's definition of fair and ours differ.\n\nSome points of perspective:\n\nThough the predisposition towards sinning is now inbred (see Webster's\nfirst definition of inbred) thanks to Adam, it is arrogant and foolish\nfor any of us to think we would have done any different if we were in\ntheir shoes. I know myself pretty well, and I'm just not that good. Take\nGod's word for it, neither are you. \"There is no one righteous...\"\n\nMore important, when a person decides to be a disciple of Jesus, God\npromises supernatural help in overcoming our physical self's sinful\ntendency. We can, of course, choose to ignore this help. (Rom 7,8)\n\n\"...God made mankind upright, but men have gone in search of many\nschemes.\" -Eccl\n\nMark", ":P\n:P>My favorite reply to the \"you are being too literal-minded\" complaint is\n:P>that if the bible is really inspired by God and if it is really THAT\n:P>important to him, then he would make damn certain all the translators and\n:P>scribes and people interpreting and copying it were getting it right,\n:P>literally. If not, then why should I put ANY merit at all in something\n:P>that has been corrupted over and over and over by man even if it was\n:P>originally inspired by God?\n:P\n:PThe \"corrupted over and over\" theory is pretty weak. Comparison of the\n:Pcurrent hebrew text with old versions and translations shows that the text\n:Phas in fact changed very little over a space of some two millennia. This\n:Pshouldn't be all that suprising; people who believe in a text in this manner\n:Pare likely to makes some pains to make good copies.", "Here's a suggestion for the logical argument FAQ. I don't think it's covered,\nthough the fallacy probably has a better name than the one I used: How about\nit, mathew?\n\nINCONSISTENCY AND COUNTEREXAMPLE\n\nThis occurs when one party points out that some source of information takes\nstand A, which is inconsistent with B. There are two variations in which B is\neither a mutually-agreed-on premise or else a stand elsewhere from the same\nsource. The second party fallaciously responds by saying \"see, the source\nreally does say B, it's right here!\"; this reply does not refute the allegation\nof inconsistency because it does not show that the source _only_ says B.\n\nExample of the first type: \"The Koran says unbelievers should be treated in\nthese ways. We can both agree these are immoral.\" \"The Koran clearly says in\nthis other passage that unbelievers are not to be treated that way.\"\n\nExample of the second type: \"There are two Biblical creation stories.\" \"You're\nwrong, since the Bible clearly describes the creation as [description].\"\n--\n\"On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Leftover Turkey!\nOn the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Turkey Casserole\n that she made from Leftover Turkey.\n[days 3-4 deleted] ... Flaming Turkey Wings! ...\n -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait)", "\n\n\nJoe;\n\nYour logic excapes me. \n\nIf the Papacy is infallible, and this is a matter of faith, then the \nPope cannot \"be wrong!\" If, on the other hand, this is not a matter \nof faith, but a matter of Church law, then we should still obey as the\nPope is the legal head of the church.\n\nIn other words, given the doctrine of infallibility, we have no choice\nbut to obey.\n\nBob\n\n-- \nBob Van Cleef Peace -0- be revc@garg.Campbell.CA.US\nThe Land of Garg BBS unto /|\\ you BBS (408) 378-5108\n", "\nAh and how...??? Amen to that one!!!!!! Thanks Chuck for sharing...\nafter all, no one can serve two masters...God and money......\nafter all, the preciousness of God as Lord and Savior is far more valuable than\nbeing a millionaire will ever be...\n", "I must have missed the postings about Waco, David Koresh, and the Second\nComing. How does one tell if a Second Coming is the real thing, unless the\nperson claiming to be IT is obviously insane?\n\nI'm not saying that David Koresh is the Second Coming of Christ. How could\nsomebody who breaks his word be the Second Coming? Koresh did promise that\nhe would come out of his compound if only he was allowed to give a radio\nbroadcast. He didn't. Still it seems to me that he did fool some people.\n\nAnd, from my meagre knowledge of the Bible, it seems that Christians have\nbeen hard on the Jews of Christ's day for being cautious about accepting\nsomebody that their religious authorities didn't accept as the Messiah.\n\nSo I was surprised that nobody had discussed the difficulty of wanting to be\nearly to recognize the Second Coming while, at the same time, not wanting to\nbe credulously believing just anybody who claims to be God.\n\n[Mark 13:21 And then if any one says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' \nor 'Look, there he is!' do not believe it. \nMark 13:22 False Christs and false prophets will arise and show signs and \nwonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect. \nMark 13:23 But take heed; I have told you all things beforehand. \nMark 13:24 \"But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be \ndarkened, and the moon will not give its light, \nMark 13:25 and the stars will be falling from heaven, and the powers in \nthe heavens will be shaken. \nMark 13:26 And then they will see the Son of man coming in clouds with \ngreat power and glory. \n\nMy understanding of Jesus' answer is that, unlike his first coming,\nwhich was veiled, the second coming will be quite unmistakeable. He's\ntelling us not to be misled by the other things that have to happen\nbefore his second coming -- the actual second coming will make his\npower openly visible.\n\nBy the way, from Koresh's public statement it's not so clear to me\nthat he is claiming to be Christ.", "\nI don't necessarily disagree with your assertion, but I disagree with\nyour reasoning. (Faith = Bad. Dogma = Bad. Religion -> (Faith ^ Dogma).\nReligion -> (Bad ^ Bad). Religion -> Bad.) Unfortunately, you never \nstate why faith and dogma are dangerous. \n\nIf you believe faith and dogma are dangerous because of what happened in\nWaco, you are missing the point. \n\nThe Branch Davidians made the mistake of confusing the message with the\nmessenger. They believed Koresh was a prophet, and therefore believed\neverything he said. The problem wasn't the religion, it was the \nfollowers. They didn't die because of faith and dogma, they died because\nof their zealotry (or, in the case of the children, the zealotry of their\nparents).\n\n\nSo Christians are totally irrational? Irrational with respect to their\nreligion only? What are you saying? One's belief in a Christian God does\nnot make one totally irrational. I think I know what you were getting at,\nbut I'd rather hear you expand on the subject.\n\n\n\nAgain, this statement is too general. A Christian is perfectly capable of\nbeing a philosopher, and absolutely capable of changing his/her mind. Faith in\nGod is a belief, and all beliefs may change. Would you assert that atheists\nwould make poor philosophers because they are predisposed to not believe in a\nGod which, of course, may show unfair bias when studying, say, religion?\n\n\n\n\n\nSo, Christianity is a prison, eh? Ever heard of parole? You have read far\ntoo much into this subject. A Christian is one who follows the religion\nbased on the teachings of a man named Jesus Christ. Nowhere does this\ndefinition imply that one cannot change one's mind. In prison, however,\nyou can't just decide to leave. One is voluntary, the other is not. The\ntwo are not compatible.\n\n\n\nI prefer to think of religion as a water pistol filled with urine. 8^)\nSeriously, though, some (but certainly not all) religions do condemn\ngroups of people. The common target is the \"infidel,\" a curious being\nwho is alternately an atheist, a non-, a person of a different race, or an Egyptian. 8^)\n\nPlease explain how \"just because\" thinking kills people. (And please\nstate more in your answer than \"Waco.\")\n\n\n\nI'll see your conscientious peacenik and raise you a religious \nzealot with bad acne. 8^) By the way, I wasn't aware mass suicide\nwas a problem. Waco and Jonestown were isolated incidents. \nMass suicides are far from common.\n", "\nAnd who was it that insisted sidestand cutout switches were right up\nthere with tachometers, something like a curse from God?\n", "\nI think that if a theist were truly objective and throws out the notion that\nGod definitely exists and starts from scratch to prove to themselves that\nthe scriptures are the whole truth then that person would no longer be a\ntheist. \n\n\nYou're missing something here. There are people who convert from\nnon-theism to theism after being brought up in a non-theist household. (I\ndon't have any statistics as to how many though. That would be an\ninteresting thing to know.) I think that religion is a crutch. People are\nnaturally afraid of the unknown and the unexplainable. People don't want\nto believe that when they die, they are dead, finished. That there is\nnothing else after that. And so religion is kind of a nice fantasy.\nReligion also describes things we don't know about the universe (things\nscience has not yet described) and it also gives people a feeling of\nsecurity... that if they just do this one thing and everything will be ok.\nThat they are being watched over by a higher power and its minions. This\nhas a very high psychological attraction for quite a few people and these\npeople are willing to put up with a few discrepancies and holes in their\nbelief system for what it gains them. This is why I think it's kind of\nuseless to try too hard to convert theists to atheism. They are happy with\ntheir fantasy and they feel that other people will be happy with it too\n(they can't accept the fact that there are people who would rather accept\nthe harsh reality that they are running from).\n\nAnyway, I'm getting kind of carried away here. But my point is that theism\ndoesn't have to be ingrained into a child's mindset for that person to grow\nup as a theist (although this happens far too often). Theism is designed\nto have its own attractions.\n", "\n\nDo you count yourself as one who is weak in the faith?\n\n\nIs there any doubt in your mind about what is right and what is missing\nthe mark?\n\n\nAre they clear or do you have doubts?\n\n\nAn important first step; the realization that Paul was human.\n\n\nYes, and he was writing and speaking for an audience that was at best,\nvery weak in the faith; most could not read, most were unfamiliar with\nthe Hebrew Scriptures in even the Septuagint form. Paul adapted the\nmessage of the Bible to a largely uneducated market. Granted, this\nmarket still exists today, but do you count yourself as part of it? To\nbe \"weak in the faith\" is not missing the mark (hamartia) if you do the\nbest that your education allows. Are you doing the best?\n\n\nLet me make clear that the \"Law\" is none other than the Pentateuch of\nGenesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy. What did Jesus say\nabout the \"Law\" in Matt5:14-19? Where did Jesus say that the \"Law\" only\napplies to Jews and that Gentiles are above the \"Law\"?\n\n\nWho acknowledged this fact? On what basis? Are we extra-biblical at this\npoint? Why not also acknowledge that the Bhagavad-Gita is the only\nrelevant text for Gentiles, after all we see in the Bible that it was\nMagus from the east who observed the star-signs of Jesus? Why bother\nwith any texts at all? Why not just follow whatever the Church has to\nsay?\n\n\nI don't see how you can say this with a straight face. Are you a\nfollower of Christ, or do you follow someone else? Are you saying that\nthe words of Jesus only apply to Jews?\n\n\nHow Jewish was Paul after he changed his name from Saul?\n\n\nWho says Gentile Christians are not covered by the first five books? Who\nsays that Gentile Christians are above the Ten Commandments?\n\n\nYou're implying that Jesus' words are valid only for Jews. Is this\nreally what you mean to say? You do realize that you are gutting rather\nlarge portions of the Bible? When you read Jesus' words, did you ever\nconsider that maybe, just maybe Jesus is talking to you, no matter what\nyour race or sex? If the Hebrew Scriptures and the Gospel accounts of\nJesus are only directed to Jews, why were they translated into English?\n\n\nAs Paul would call him, one who was weak in the faith.\n\n\nWhich is more important: 1) The recorded word of Jesus or 2) Indications\nthat you can deduce from the Bible? Was Jesus God only of the Jews, or\nGod of all humankind of all race and sex?\n\n\nThis is your understanding of Paul. Compare this to the word of Jesus.\nAre you Christian or Pauline?\n\n\nAgain, this is your understanding of Paul. Did Jesus say that the Law\nwas an \"impossible standard?\" Did Jesus say that He superceded the Law?\nAre you Christian or Pauline?\n\n\nYou acknowledge that it is *your* reading of Paul. What did Jesus say?\nCan you deny that Matt5:14-19 is quite clear in its meaning? Are you \nChristian or Pauline?\n\n\nWhen did Jesus say that the purpose of the Law was conviction of sin?\n\n\nPlease reread Matt5:14-19. Are you Christian or Pauline?\n\n\nAre you saying that the Ten Commandments are ceremonial details?\n\n\nYou call observance of the Sabbath, the day on which the Lord rested,\nceremonial? Has circumcision been superceded for Christians?\n\n....\n\nAre you Christian or Pauline?\n\n[Both. There is no doubt in my mind about what is sin and what is\nnot, at least not in this case. Jesus did not deal explicitly with\nthe question of whether the Law was binding on Gentiles. That's why I\nhave to cite evidence such as the way Jesus dealt with the Centurion.\n\nAs to general Jewish views on this, I am dependent largely on studies\nof Pauline theology, one by H.J. Schoeps, and one whose author I can't\ncome up with at the moment. Both authors are Jews. Also, various\nChristian and non-Christian Jews have discussed the issue here and in\nother newsgroups.\n\nMat 5:19 is clear that the Law is still valid. It does not say that\nit applies to Gentiles.\n\nAnd yes, I say that the specific requirement for worship on the\nSabbath in the Ten Commandments is a ceremonial detail, when you're\nlooking at the obligations of Gentiles. Similarly circumcision.\n\nI'm not sure quite what else I can say on this subject. Again, it's\nunfortunate the Jesus didn't answer the question directly. However we\ndo know (1) what the 1st Cent. Jewish approach was, (2) how Jesus\ndealt with at least one Gentile, and (3) how Jesus' disciples dealt\nwith the issue when it became more acute (I'm referring to Acts 15\nmore than Paul). Given that these are all in agreement, I don't see\nthat there's a big problem.", "\n\nOne interpretation I've heard of this verse is that it refers to the sin \nof physically abusing one's wife. The husband is usually physically \nstronger than his wife but is not permitted to use this to dominate her. \nHe must honor her as his sister in Christ. This would therefore be an \nexample of a specific sin that blocks prayer.\n\nThis verse also makes me think of the kind of husband who decides what \nis God's will for his family without consulting his wife. God reveals \nHis will to both the husband and the wife. There needs to be some \ndegree of mutuality in decision making. Even those whose understanding \nof the Bible leads to a belief in an authoritarian headship of the \nhusband need to incorporate this in order to have a functional family. \nOne way to look at it is that God speaks to the wife through the husband \nand to the husband through the wife.\n", "Ps.92:12: \"The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree.\"", ": >\n\n: Precisely my position. \n\n: As a newbie, I tried the point-by-point approach to debate with\n: these types. It wasted both my time and my lifespan. Ignoring\n: them is not an option, since they don't go away, and doing so\n: would leave one with large stretches of complete anonymity in this\n: group.\n\nBob,\n\nI've posted here long enough to see your name a few times, but I\ncan't recall any point by point approach to anything you've\ncontributed. But I'm old (probably senile) and I may have just\nforgotten, if you could post an example of your invincible logic, it\nmight jog my memory.", "\n\t\t\t ^^^^\n\nJust what are these \"scientific facts\"? I have never heard of such a thing.\nScience never proves or disproves any theory - history does.\n\n-Tim\n\n ______________________________________________________________________________", "\n[deletia- and so on]\n\nI seem to have been rather unclear.\n\nWhat I was asking is this:\n\nPlease show me that the most effective substance-absure recovery\nprograms involve meetinsg peoples' spiritual needs, rather than\nmerely attempting to fill peoples' spiritual needs as percieved\nby the people, A.A, S.R.C. regulars, or snoopy. This will probably\ninvolve defining \"spritual needs\" (is it not that clear) and\nshowing that such things exist and how they can be filled.\n\nAnnother tack you might take is to say that \"fulfilling spiritual\nneeds\" means \"acknowledging a \"higher power\" of some sort, then\nshow that systems that do require this, work better than otherwise\nidentical systems that do not. A correlation here would help you,\nbut as you point out this might just be demonstrating swapping\none crutch for annother. (however, I do feel that religion is\nusually a better crutch than alchohol, as it is not usually\npoisonous! :) )\n\nI hope with that clarification, my question will be answerable. I actually\ndid know about the 12 step program, its the question of what it does,\nrather than what it tries to do, that makes a difference to me.\n---\n\t\t\t- Dan Johnson\nAnd God said \"Jeeze, this is dull\"... and it *WAS* dull. Genesis 0:0", "\n The Catholic doctrine of predestination does not exclude free will in\nany way. Since God knows everything, He therefore knows everything that\nis going to happen to us. We have free will, and are able to change\nwhat happens to us. However, since God knows everything, He knows all\nthe choices we will make \"in advance\" (God is not subject to time). Too\noften arguments pit predestination against free will. We believe in\nboth.", "\n\nAre you sure you want to include Chalcedon here? I presume that you \nmean the description of Jesus as fully human and fully devine. Almost \neveryone would consider the majority of Copts and Armenians, and the \nJacobites, as Christians, yet for 15 centuries it has been maintained \nthat they disagree with the Formula of Chalcedon. Those that wouldn't \nconsider them Christians are most likely to object that these communities \ndon't require a personal commitment to Jesus, which is only tangentially \nrelated to the Formula of Chalcedon. \n-- \nThanks, John Kolassa, kolassa@bio1.bst.rochester.edu", "--> Note:\nReply to a message in soc.religion.christian.\n\nEVENSON THOMAS RANDALL wrote in a message to All:\n\n\n\nHi, You might want to read Charismatic Chaos by John MacArthur. In it\nhe discussed exactly this queation, amongst others. In my own words,\nVERY simplified, his position is basically that one must decide, what\nis the most important - experience or Scripture? People tend to say\nScripture, without living according to that. Their own\nfeeling/prophecy/etc tends to be put across without testing in the\nlight of Scripture.\n\nThere's a lot more than this, really worthwhile to read whether you're\nCharismatic or not.\n\nGroetnis (=cheers)\n Deon\n\n--- timEd/B8", "\nAnd doubtless, when an atheist does an act of charity\nthey temporarily become a Baptist.", "For the Lord Himself will descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice\nof an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will\nrise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together\nto meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.", "\n\n (Reasoning pertinent to believing Xians deleted for space)\n\n It strikes me, for no apparent reason, that this is reversible.\nI.e., if I had proof that there existed a hell, in which I would be\neternally punished for not believing in life, would that make me a Xian?\n(pardon my language) _Bloody_hell_no_!\n\n ...Of course, being merely a reversal of your thinking, this\ndoesn't add anything _new_ to the debate, but...\n\n\n A point very well taken, IMNSHO.\n", "\nThis is not true. The athiest's position is that there is no PROOF of the\nexistence of God. As much as some people accept their Church, their priests\nor straight from their own scriptures as the \"proof\", this does not \nsatisfy atheists.\n\nAtheists DO believe in recognisable authorities. If they were as dogmatic as\nyou claim they are, they would be trying to prove 1 + 1 =2 every time they\ngot up. What they dispute is that Churches, priests, scriptures etc.\nrepresent true authorities and know the TRUTH.\n\n\nAre you asking us to believe blindly? You are trying to deny that part of\nus that makes us ask the question \"Does God exist?\" i.e. self-awareness and\nreason. If we do not use our ability to reason we become as ignorant\nas the other animals on this earth. Does God want us to be like that?\n\nYou are right that science and reason cannot PROVE anything. However, if\nwe do not use them we can only then believe on FAITH alone. And since\nwe can only use faith, why is one picture of \"God\" (e.g. Hinduism) any less\nvalid than another (e.g. Christianity)?\n\n", "\nUh oh. This looks a bit too much like Bobby's \"Atheism Is False\" stuff. Are\nwe really going to have to go through this again? Maybe the universe is\ncyclical! :) :(\n\n\n\n\n\n", "\n\n\n\nOmigod, it's an operationalist! Sorry, Jim, but the idea that a theory\nexplaining a myriad of distinctly different observations is merely a\n\"model\" is more than sensible people can accept -- your phobia about\nobjective reality notwithstanding.\n--\nMark Pundurs", "Hi Damon, No matter what system or explanation of creation you wish\nto accept, you always have to start with one of two premises, creation\nfrom nothing, or creation from something. There are no other\nalternatives. And if we accept one or the other of those two\npremises, then again there are two alternatives, either creation was\nrandom, or was according to some plan.\n If it was random, I am unable to accept that the complex nature of\nour world with interrelated interdependent organisms and creatures\ncould exist as they do. Therefore I am left with creation under the\ncontrol of an intelligence capable of devising such a scheme. I call\nthat intelligence God.\n I also prefer the \"Creatio ex nihilo\" rather than from chaos, as it\nis cleaner.\n There is obviously no way to prove either or neither. We are and\nwe must have come from somewhere. Choose whatever explanation you\nfeel most comfortable with, Damon. You are the one who has to live\nwith your choice.\nShalom, Len Howard\n", ": I will clarify my earlier quote. God's laws were originally written for \n: the Israelites. Jesus changed that fact by now making the Law applicable to\n: all people, not just the Jews. Gentiles could be part of the kingdom of\n: Heaven through the saving grace of God. I never said that the Law was made\n: obsolete by Jesus.\n\nJust for reference, here's the earlier quote:\nMalcolm Lee (mlee@post.RoyalRoads.ca) wrote in reference to Leviticus 21:9\nand Deuteronomy 22:20-25:\n: These laws written for the Israelites, God's chosen people whom God had\n: expressly set apart from the rest of the world. The Israelites were a\n: direct witness to God's existence. To disobey God after KNOWing that God\n: is real would be an outright denial of God and therefore immediately\n: punishable.\n: Remember, these laws were written for a different time and applied only to\n: God's chosen people. But Jesus has changed all of that. We are living in\n: the age of grace. Sin is no longer immediately punishable by death. There\n: is repentance and there is salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. And\n: not just for a few chosen people. Salvation is available to everyone, Jew\n: and Gentile alike.\n\nThese are two conflicting statements. To say one is a clarification of the\nother is a breach of logic. I don't mind people shifting their position on\nan issue. It irritates me when it is said under the premise that no change\nwas made. What about Deuteronomy 22:20-25? Is it wrong now? Did Jesus\nchange that?\n\n: If anything, He clarified the Law such as in that quote you made. In the\n: following verses, Jesus takes several portions of the Law and expounds upon\n: the Law giving clearer meaning to what God intended.\n\nSure he does this. However, he doesn't address the notion of stoning\nnon-virgin brides, because this needs no clarification. Are you going to\ndeny that Deuteronomy 22:20-25 is not patently clear in its intent?\n\n: I think you will agree with me that there are in today's world, a lot of\n: modern-day Pharisees who know the bible from end to end but do not believe\n: in it. What good is head knowledge if there is nothing in the heart?\n\nI'll agree that there is a lot of modern day Pharisees that know the Bible\nfrom end to end and don't believe in it. Depending on how they use this\nknowledge, they can be scary. They can argue any position they desire, and\nback it up with selected parts of the Bible. Such Pharisees include David\nKoresh and Adolph Hitler. I will qualify this by saying *I don't know* if\nthey actually believed what they were preaching, but the ends certainly\nmade the means look frightening.\n\nHowever, just as scary are those that don't know much of the Bible, but\nbelieve every word. In fact, this is probably scarier, since there are far\nmore of these people, from what I've seen. In addition, they are very easy\nto manipulate by the aforementioned Pharisees, since they don't know enough\nto debate with these people.\n\n: Christianity is not just a set of rules; it's a lifestyle that changes one's\n: perspectives and personal conduct. And it demands obedience to God's will.\n\nNo, it demands obedience to a book. If God came down and personally told\nme how I should behave, then I would say that I would be doing God's will\nby doing it. However, if preachers, pastors, and evangelists tell me to\nobey the will of a book written by people who have been dead for close to\ntwo millenia (even longer for the OT), even if I follow everything in it\nwith my heart, I could scarcely be honest with myself by saying I'm doing\nthe will of God.\n\n: Some people can live by it, but many others cannot or will not. That is\n: their choice and I have to respect it because God respects it too.\n\nWell, if God respects it so much, how come there is talk in the Bible about\neternal damnation for non-believers? I see little respect eminating from\nthe god of the Bible. I see a selfish and spiteful god.\n\n: God be with you,\n\nNot yours, thanks ;)\n\n: Malcolm Lee :)\n\nRob Lanphier\nlanphi872@snake.cs.uidaho.edu\nlanph872@uidaho.edu\n\nAnd for the curious, here is my earlier post:", "\nFine... THE ILLIAD IS THE WORD OF GOD(tm) (disputed or not, it is)\n\nDispute that. It won't matter. Prove me wrong.\n\nBrian West", "\n\nThen you better pray for me, too, because I believe that the Mighty\nInvisibile Pink Unicorn does not exist. One being cannot be both \"Pink\"\nand \"Invisible.\" The demon (or should that be daemon?) that keeps me\nfrom believing and saving my soul is named Logic.", "\nBill, ever heard of secular humanism? Please check out what\nthis stands for, and then revise your statements above.\n\nCheers,\nKent\n", "\n\nMy impression is that *for advanced work* you will be much better off with\nGerman reference works (lexicons, concordances especially). For a first-time\nencounter, my *personal* preference would be to deal with a textbook written in\nmy native language. But if you know German and are in Germany, pick up all the\nreference books you think you can handle. (I only know these works by\nreputation, since my German is most rusty, but I'd look at the following books:\nKoehler's lexicon, Mandeldern's concordance, the Jenni & Westermann theological\ndictionary of the OT.)\n\n\nThe amount of language instruction available at US seminaries varies widely,\nmostly depending on the denominational heritage of the school. Presbyterian\nand Reformed seminaries probably place a lot more emphasis on the biblical\nlanguages than others. (Of course, any divinity school that has a doctoral\nprogram in biblical studies is going to have extensive language resources! But\nthere are quite a few masters-degree-granting seminaries here at which the\nattitude seems to be more, \"Well, if you're *really* interested we'll give you\na semester-long course, but we don't understand why . . .\")", "\n Now doesn't this sound a lot like the \"colorful (or otherwise) story \n from antiquity that somehow tries to (or does) explain natural pheno-\n mena\"? I think I hear what you're saying, but I'm not convinced that\n I know what you mean. The possibility exists that what _looks_ like\n \"myth\" on the surface may be after all much more than \"just\" a story.\n \n \n\n * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *", "\nWell, knowing Greek and Hebrew, I'm probably not as picky about translations\nas I would be if English translations were my only source of information.\nBUT...\n\n(1) Any verse that comes out substantially different in different trans-\nlations is almost certainly unclear in the original. \n\n(2) It is very bad practice to \"shop\" for a translation that fits your own\ndoctrinal positions.\n\nPersonally, I still like the RSV. NRSV and NASV are also very good.\n\nI have a strong preference for editions that do _not_ indent the beginning\nof each verse as if verses were paragraphs. The verse numbering is a\nrelatively modern addition and should not be given undue prominence.\n", "\n\nParadise and salvation are not the same thing. Salvation is better. Refer\nto John 14:2.", "\nGreat start. I realize immediately that you are not interested\nin discussion and are going to thump your babble at me. I would\nmuch prefer an answer from Ms Healy, who seems to have a\nreasonable and reasoned approach to things. Say, aren't you the\ncreationist guy who made a lot of silly statements about\nevolution some time ago?\n\n\nDuh, gee, then we must be talking Christian mythology now. I\nwas hoping to discuss something with a reasonable, logical\nperson, but all you seem to have for your side is a repetition\nof the same boring mythology I've seen a thousand times before.\nI am deleting the rest of your remarks, unless I spot something\nthat approaches an answer, because they are merely a repetition\nof some uninteresting doctrine or other and contain no thought\nat all.\n\n[..]\n\nI have to congratulate you, though, Bill. You wouldn't\nknow a logical argument if it bit you on the balls. Such\na persistent lack of function in the face of repeated\nattempts to assist you in learning (which I have seen\nin this forum and others in the past) speaks of a talent\nthat goes well beyond my own, meager abilities. I just don't\nseem to have that capacity for ignoring outside influences.", "\nI don't meant to defend Eric Molas- I find it somewhat annoying when\nsomeone pops up on alt.atheism to tell us all about his (usually\natheistic) beliefs, so I can certainly see how Christians might be\nannoyed- but I'd like to point out a few things.\n\n\n\"no meaning from God\" is not the same as \"no meaning\". From my (atheistic)\npoint of view, if you want meaning in your life, you get to go and\nget some or make some.\n\nNo free gifts of meaning. (I never quite understood how any\nGod can just \"give\" your life meaning, actually. If he\nsays you exists to do or be X, that gives you a purpose\nif you care to accept it, but is that the same thing? But\nI digress...) \n\n\nThis would truely be a miserably existance, which I doubt Eric\nendures. Life can be enjoyable, so you can live it because you like\nit, or purposefull, so you can live it to get something done. One should\nendeavour to make it so, if it is not. Otherwise it would be as you say.\nTerrible.\n\n\nProbably true. Remeber he almost certainly sees that particular joy as\nan illusion, and does not want it. So maybe it isn't so bad?\n\n\nAs an atheist, I am free to be a human person. I think, love, choose,\nand create.\n\n\nAh, now here we begin to diverge. I will not live forever\nwith anyone.\n\n(I don't think you will either, but you are welcome to your\nopinion on the matter.)\n\n\nI tend to agree with you.\n\nIt's my opinion that (unlike drugs) religions are normal\nparts of human societies.\n\nI think they have outlived their usefullness, but they\nare evidently quite ordinary, normal things that haven't\nproved lethal to humanity yet.\n\n\nI have heard this claim quite a few times. Does anybody here know\nwho first came up with the \"God-shaped hole\" business?\n\n\nYou might want to provide some evidence next time you make a claim\nlike this.\n\n\nI don't know Eric, but I do not think it is wise to assume he has a less\njoy-filled and abundant life because he holds certain beliefs.\n\n---\n\t\t\t- Dan Johnson\nAnd God said \"Jeeze, this is dull\"... and it *WAS* dull. Genesis 0:0", "\nGlad to hear this, just a note, Osiris, Mithras and many other\ncult gods resurrected as well, so there's a good chance for all of\nus to maybe end up in a virtual reality simulator, and live forever,\nhurrah!\n\nSorry, this was a joke, some sort of one anyway. I'm the first\nthat connected Osiris with a virtual reality personality database.\nTime to write a book.\n\n\nCheers,\nKent", "\n\n\n\nWhere do insparations/Miracles fit in? I was a new reader to the bible\nand Qu'ran at the same time in my life and I can tell you that I would \nhave drifted in my faith if Those books were not exposed to me.\n\n\n", "I dreamed that the great judgment morning had dawned,\n and the trumpet had blown.\nI dreamed that the sinners had gathered for judgment\n before the white throne.\nOh what weeping and wailing as the lost were told of their fate.\nThey cried for the rock and the mountains.\nThey prayed, but their prayers were too late.\nThe soul that had put off salvation, \n\"Not tonight I'll get saved by and by.\n No time now to think of ....... religion,\" \nAlas, he had found time to die.\nAnd I saw a Great White Throne.\n\nNow, some have protest by saying that the fear of hell is not good for\nmotivation, yet Jesus thought it was. Paul thought it was. Paul said, \n\"Knowing therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men.\"\n\nToday, too much of our evangelism is nothing but soft soap and some of\nit is nothing but evangelical salesmanship. We don't tell people anymore, that\nthere's such a thing as sin or that there's such a place as hell. \n\nAs Jayne has said, this doesn't mean we have to come on so strong so as to hit\npeople over the head with a baseball bat. Yet the fact remains, there is a\nplace called hell. A place so fearful that God died to save us from having to\nexperience it. Whatever you or I, as Christians, do, we should do whatever we\ncan to win people to the Lord, if for no other reason, to keep them from going\nto \"outer darkness.\". \n\nJesus, in Mt. 25, tells us that He didn't prepare hell for people. He prepared\nit for the Devil and his angels. No where in the Bible do I read -anywhere,\nthat God predestined anybody to go to hell. D.L. Moody use to say that the\nelect are the \"whosoever will\" and the nonelect are the \"whosoever wont's.\" \nWhether or not that's theologically sound, I couldn't defend, but its\npractical. Jesus said to the people of Israel, \"Ye would not.\" \n\nNow, some of you may not be students of the Bible, heck -some of you may not be\nChristians. Have you ever said to somebody, \"I don't believe in hell. I\nbelieve in the religion of Jesus.\" But did you know that Jesus talked more\nabout hell than He did about heaven! \"Oh I believe in the religion of the\nsermon on the mount.\" You find hell taught by Jesus in the sermon on the\nmount. You'll read that Jesus talked about the tree being cast into the fire. \nSeveral times he talks about hell and about judgment. In fact, over and over\nin the synoptics, Matthew, Mark and Luke, Jesus talks about hell. Not Isaiah. \nNot Moses. Not John the Baptist, though he did, but Jesus, the Son of God. \nThe great Beloved One preached about hell because He loved people and didn't\nwant to see them go there.\n\nNow, if there is no hell then Jesus preached in vain. It was our Lord Jesus,\nnot some angry Baptist preacher, that said, \"where the worm never dies, and\nwhere the fire never goes out.\" Jesus said that. It was Jesus who called hell\na \"furnace of fire.\" It was Jesus that used the word, \"condemnation.\" \"And\nthis is the condemnation, that men love darkness rather than light because\ntheir deeds are evil. Jesus said that. \n\nHow can we get it across to you that a loving, dying Jesus preached about hell?\n Not only that, but He went through hell. That's what Calgary was all about. \nWhen my Lord was on the cross, darkness fell. He called hell, \"outer\ndarkness.\" \n\nDo you have this idea that hell is a place where the gamblers are gambling over\nhere, the drunks are getting drunk over there, and the prostitutes are\nprostituting their bodies over there? That's not what hell is. Hell's not a\nparty. There's no fellowship there. He called it \"outer darkness.\" \"Outer\"\n-away from God. \"Darkness\" -God is light. \n\nNo when He was on the cross, He was made sin for you and for me. God treated\nJesus the way sinners have to be treated. That's is a sobering thought. As my\nson would say, an \"awesome\" thought. \n\n\"My God, My God why hast Thou forsaken me?\" Hell is isolation. There's no\nfellowship in hell. There's no friendship in hell. There's no loving embrace\nin hell. There's no hand shake in hell. There's no word of encouragement in\nhell. \n\n\"I thirst.\" It goes much deeper than physical thirst. Hell is eternal craving\nwith no satisfaction. The man whose life was lived for drugs, will crave it\neternally. The man whose life was lived for the lust of a woman's body, will\ncrave it eternally -and not be satisfied. One theologian has put it this way\nand I think it deserves merit. What is hell? Hell is just the kind of\nenvironment that matches the internal condition of the lost. \n\nIn a recent post, I was trying to remember the founder of The Word of Life\nministries. I've remembered his name, Jack Wertzen, and found that the\nillustration that I gave wasn't his. His illustration was that he was talking\nto his barber and his barber's wife and daughter had just recently been saved\nand he was commenting about it to Jack. \"They sing these songs and read Bible\nverses, and their praising this and that -I can't stand it! Jack, do you think\nGod would send me to hell?\" Jack answered by saying, \"Yes I think he would!\" \nOf course the barber said, \"What do you mean by that.\" \"Well if you can't\nstand living at home with your wife and daughter who sing hymns and praises to\nGod now, what would you do in heaven where they'll do it for eternity? You'd\nbe miserable. Because God loves you, He'd put you where it would match what\nyou really are.\" It makes a man think.\n\nThe crucifixion of Jesus Christ is a fact that necessitates the eternal\nexistence of hell because on the cross He performed an eternal act. Don't ask\nme how, I don't know. But He is God and He is the infinite/eternal and when He\ndied, He died an infinite/eternal death. It is by that eternal act that He\npurchased eternal life for the \"whosoever wills.\" He suffered eternal\njudgment. \n\nA lot of people would like to detour around hell by saying \"Everybody is going\nto be saved eventually.\" -universalism. My Bible says no, He'll separate\nthem. The sheep from the goats. \".After you die there's a probationary period\nin which God prepares you for heaven.\" No, my Bible says that \"It is appointed\nunto men once to die and then comes judgment.\" Some of the cultist believe in\nannihilation. After you die, sssswish. Just like a mosquito you're squished\nout. No, in Rev we are told that their is eternal existence in hell just as\nthere is in heaven. \n\nI don't enjoy making these kind of statements and maybe you don't enjoy\nlistening to them, but we have to preach the entire Word of God. -There is a\nplace called hell. If I could give one verse of Scripture that could give any\nhope that people aren't going there, I'd give it to you, but I haven't found\nit. That fact that there is a place called hell, the fact that our God is a\nGod of holiness and must judge sin, the fact that He has made us the kind of\ncreatures we are and therefore we're responsible, the fact that He has placed\nus in a \"uni\"verse that has purpose and design behind it, the fact that sin is\nsuch an awful thing and the fact that God Himself went through hell to save us\nfrom hell leads us to two applications.\n\n1) As I've already mentioned. If you are a Christian, you must worn others. \nIts not good enough to stop and fix their flat tire and not tell them that just\naround the bend the bridge is out. \"Knowing therefore the terror of Lord, we\npersuade men.\"\n\n2) If you haven't accepted Jesus are your Savior, you're taking an awful\nchance. As I say to the Jehovah Witnesses (who no longer frequent my door), if\nyou are right and I am wrong, then I will have lived a good life and will die\nand cease to exist, but if I am right and you are wrong, then you will die and\nsuffer eternal damnation. I don't mean to make fun at this point, but its like\nDirty Harry said, \"You've got to ask yourself, 'Do I feel lucky?' Well do\nyou?\" \"A man's got to know his limitations.\" Don't be one of the \"whosoever\nwont's.\" ", "Are there any members of conservative, religious, politically active groups\n(such as the Christian Coalition) out there? I come from a very liberal \nbackground, and I'd like to talk to some conservative people out there in a \npublic forum (such as this one.) I frankly can't understand the rationale or\nChristian basis for much of the conservative position, and I'd like to try and\nlearn more about this movement--after all, we're part of the same church. Is\nanyone interested in explaining a bit about the conservative viewpoint?\n Thanks.", "\n\n\"We however, shall be innocent of this sin, and will pray with earnest\nentreaty and supplication that the Creator of all may keep unharmed the\nnumbers of His elect.\"\n -St. Clement, Bishop of Rome, Letter to the Corinthians, 59.2, (c. 90 AD)\n\n\"Ignatius also called Theophorus, to the Church at Ephesus in Asia,\nwhich is worthy of all felicitation, blessed as it is with greatness by\nthe fullness of God the Father, predestined from all eternity for a\nglory that is lasting and unchanging, united and chosen in true\nsuffering by the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God...\"\n -St. Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch, Letter to the Ephesians, Address,\n(c 110 AD)\n\n\"We say therefore, that in substance, in concept, in orgin and in\neminece, the ancient and Catholic Church is alone, gathering as it does\ninto the unity of the one faith which results from the familiar\ncovenants .... those already chosen, those predestined by God who knew\nbefore the foundation of the world that they would be just.\"\n -St. Clement, Patriarch and Archbishop of Alexandria, Miscellanies,\n7.17.107.3, (c 205 AD)\n\nOf course the doctrine was explained more fully later on by Sts.\nAugustine, Aquinas, etc., but the seeds were ther from the beginning.\n\n\nI think you are reading it wrong. I say those who are not saved are not\nsaved on account of their own sins. It is not because God did not give\nthem sufficient grace, for He does do so, in His desire that all men\nmight be saved. However, as only some are saved - and those who are\nsaved are saved by the grace of God, \"not by works, lest any man should\nboast\" - the others are damned because of their obstinacy in refusing to\nheed the call of God. They are damned by their own free will and\nchosing, a choice forseen by God in His causing them to be not\npredestined, but reprobated instead.\n\n\nCertainly God does not distribute grace evenly. If He did, no one could\nhave their heart hardened (or rather, harden their heart, thus causing\nGod to withdraw His grace). But, you are correct - the world is divided\ninto those who God knows to be saved, and those God knows to be on the\nroad to perdition. THe key is that God knows it and we do not. Thus,\nno one can boast in complete assurance that they are one of the elect\nand predestined. But no one who is a Christian in good standin should\ndoubt their salvation either (that shows a lack of trust in God).\n\n\nYou must admit it is possible. Anyway, why would you want something in\nthe hear and know, when you can recieve 100 fold in heaven? Better to\nlay up your treasure in heaven is what Jesus said.\nThis is not to condemn the rich, but simply to point out that those who\nare rich are frequently very evil or immoral, so God must give them\ntheir blessing know, as they have chosen. Remeber, Jesus promised\ntribulation in this world, and hatred of others because we are\nChristians. He did not promise heaven on earth. He promised heaven.\n\n\nNot really. Unless you do penance here on earth, you will have to do it\nin Purgatory, as Paul pointed out (1 Corinthians 3.15). Those with\npoorer works, though still done with good intentions, will only be saved\nthrough fire (the damned will of course go into fire immeadiately, for\nwhatever good they did was not for God but for self (dead works)). Of\ncourse, the Church gives indulgences, has Confession, and Annointing of\nthe Sick to remove sin and the the vestiges of sin, so there is really\nlittle excuse for ending up in Purgatory - it is a last hope for the\nsomewhat lazy and careless as I said above in referring to Paul.\n\nAnd no comments were taken as flames. You are one of the more polite\npeople I have talked to over the net.\n\nAndy Byler", "\nWOW! Are you serious! So not everyone who calls themself a Christian is\na Christian? WOW! That does make things a bit more complicated doesn't it?\n\n\nThat seems like very good advice, given the above revelation.\n\n\nLike for example Matthew 5:14-19 right?\n\n\nUm, where did Jesus say that he wanted people to worship him?\n", "\nWhy don't you tell us, Tony? I'm sure what you THINK you know adds up to a\nlot more than what Casper has.\n\nDoesn't it frustrate you to consider how many intelligent, thoughtful \npeople you have prepared for the Mormon missionaries with your rant? The\nmore you talk, the better we look. Nothing makes the truth look better\nthan a background of falsehood.\n\nSic 'em, Tony!", "\n\t.\n\t.\n\t.\n\nWhy do you assume that Jesus's plea to His Father \"to let this cup\npass from Him\", was merely a plea to escape death? When I look at\nJesus in the garden, I see a Man-God, who all His life had had the\npresense of His Father with Him. As a result, He knew every\ndetail about His death long before the Agony in the Garden. But\nas that hour approached, He felt abandoned by His Father, His\npresense diminishing with each passing minute. In addition, it\nwas brought more and more to Jesus's attention (the betrayal of\nJudas was probably a big impact) that His suffering would be to no\navail for many people, especially those who would reject Him, not\nonly then but in the future. I truly believe that the majority of\nJesus's suffering was mental and spiritual, while the physical\nportion was only the tip of the iceburg.\n\nBTW, we know from John's account that Jesus *shunned* becomming an earthly\nking. From John:\n\nJOH 6:14 After the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus did, they\n began to say, \"Surely this is the Prophet who is to come into the\n world.\"\nJOH 6:15 Jesus, knowing that they intended to come and make him king by\n force, withdrew again to a mountain by himself.\n\nThis does not seem like a man who would regret not becoming an\nearthly king. No, Jesus knew His mission was to redeem all (Jew &\nGentile) people and establish His kingdom in the hearts of those\nwho would believe. This was utterly mistaken, much to Jesus's\ndismay, as an aspiration to some earthly kingdom. But He knew\nwhat His Father's will was and followed it obediently even in the\ndarkness of His Passion.\n", "\nAbsolutely not. I went through a \"journey\" of lukewarm Christianity,\nagnosticism, atheism, agnosticism, and now (although I know my faith\nis less than what it should be) Christianity again. I think it's a path\nmany of us take.", "\nYes.\n\n(I am adamantly an environmentalist. I will not use styrofoam table service.\nPlease keep that in mind as you read this post - I do not wish to attack\nenvironmentalism)\n\nA half truth is at least as dangerous as a complete lie. A complete lie will\nrarely be readily accepted, while a half truth (the lie subtly hidden) is more\npowerfully offered by one who masquerades as an angel of light.\n\nSatan has (for some people) loosened the grip on treating the earth as something\nother than God's intricate handiwork, something other than that on which the\nhealth of future generations is based. It is being treated with respect. You\nthink he's going to happily leave it at that? No. When one error is rejected,\nit is his style to push people to the opposite error. Therefore the earth is\nnot God's intricate handiwork, not because it is rubbish, but because it is\nGod. Mother earth is the one you are to primarily love and serve.\n\nI see two facets of a response to it:\n\n1: Care for the environment. Treat it with proper respect, both because it is\n God's intricate handiwork and the health of future generation, and because\n showing the facet of one who is disregardful of such things does not\n constitute what the Apostle Paul called \"becoming all things to all men so\n that by all possible means I might save some.\"\n\n Don't say \"Forget the environment, I've got important things to spend my time\n on.\" - putting your foot in your mouth in this manner will destroy your\n credibility in expressing the things that _are_ more important.\n\n2: Show that it is not the ultimate entity, that it is creature and not\n creator. Show that its beauty and glory points to a greater beauty and\n glory. Show that it is not the ultimate tapestry, but one of many cords\n woven in the infinite tapestry.", "\n\n\tThe \"R Us\" is not trademarked, but the \"Backwards R Us\" is, I \nbelieve.\n\n\n\n---\n\n Speaking of proofs of God, the funniest one I have ever seen was in a\n term paper handed in by a freshman. She wrote, \"God must exist, because\n he wouldn't be so mean as to make me believe he exists if he really\n doesn't!\" Is this argument really so much worse than the ontological\n proofs of the existence of God provided by Anselm and Descartes, among\n others?", "\nWho said Christians want to conform to the teachings of Jesus?", "\n\tBoth Christians and non-Christians laugh at this quote because\nit exaggerates something we all feel, but know is not true. Us\nChristians just KNOW that a little better! :)\n\n\n\n\t\t\tIn God we trust!\n\n\n\t\t\t-Christopher\n", "\n\nAs to what that headpiece is....\n\n(by chort@crl.nmsu.edu)\n\nSOURCE: AP NEWSWIRE\n\nThe Vatican, Home Of Genetic Misfits?\n\nMichael A. Gillow, noted geneticist, has revealed some unusual data\nafter working undercover in the Vatican for the past 18 years. \"The\nPopehat(tm) is actually an advanced bone spur.\", reveals Gillow in his\ngroundshaking report. Gillow, who had secretly studied the innermost\nworkings of the Vatican since returning from Vietnam in a wheel chair,\nfirst approached the scientific community with his theory in the late\n1950's.\n\n\"The whole hat thing, that was just a cover up. The Vatican didn't\nwant the Catholic Community(tm) to realize their leader was hefting\nnearly 8 kilograms of extraneous bone tissue on the top of his\nskull.\", notes Gillow in his report. \"There are whole laboratories in\nthe Vatican that experiment with tissue transplants and bone marrow\nexperiments. What started as a genetic fluke in the mid 1400's is now\nscientifically engineered and bred for. The whole bone transplant idea\nstarted in the mid sixties inspired by doctor Timothy Leary\ntransplanting deer bone cells into small white rats.\" Gillow is quick\nto point out the assassination attempt on Pope John Paul II and the\ndisappearance of Dr. Leary from the public eye.\n\n\"When it becomes time to replace the pope\", says Gillow, \"The old pope\nand the replacement pope are locked in a padded chamber. They butt\nheads much like male yaks fighting for dominance of the herd. The\nvictor emerges and has earned the privilege of inseminating the choir\nboys.\"\n\n\nP.", "\n\n\nCute characterization Bill; however, there is no inconsistency between \nthe two statements. Even if one believes that religion is \"primitive, \nsimple-minded and unscientific, anti-intellectual and childish\", one\ncan still hold the view that religion also adds an unnecessary level of\ncomplexity to the explanation. The ideas themselves don't have to be\ncomplex before being excised by Occam's Razor, they only have to add \nunnecessarily to the overall complexity of the description.\n\n\nI think the non-essential part of an explanatory system is one that\nadds no predictive capability to the system.\n\n\nHuh?\n\n ^^^^^\nWatch it, your Freudian Slip is showing\n", "[...]\n\nWait a minute. I thought you said that Allah (I presume Allah == God) was unknowable,\nand yet here you are claiming to know a very concrete fact about him.\n\nYou say that God does not have a \"face\". Doesn't the bible say that God has hindparts?\n\nHow do you suggest I decide which (if any) of you is right? Or are you both right?\nGod has hindparts but no face? Or does your use of quotation marks:\n\n\tGod does not have a \"face\".\n\nallow you to interpret this to mean whatever you like?\n", "Can a theist be truly objective? Can he be impartial\n when questioning the truth of his scriptures, or\n will he assume the superstition of his parents\n when questioning? \n\nI've often found it to be the case that the theist\n will stick to some kind of superstition when\n wondering about God and his scriptures. I've\n seen it in the Christian, the Jew, the Muslim,\n and the other theists alike. All assume that\n their mothers and fathers were right in the\n aspect that a god exists, and with that belief\n search for their god.\n \nOccasionally, the theist may switch religions or\n aspects of the same religion, but overall the\n majority keep to the belief that some \"Creator\"\n was behind the universe's existence. I've\n known Muslims who were once Christians and vice\n versa, I've known Christians who were once\n Jewish and vice versa, and I've even known\n Christians who become Hindu. Yet, throughout\n their transition from one faith to another,\n they've kept this belief in some form of higher\n \"being.\" Why?\n \nIt usually all has to do with how the child is\n brought up. From the time he is born, the\n theist is brought up with the notion of the\n \"truth\" of some kind of scripture-- the Bible,\n the Torah, the Qur'an, & etc. He is told\n of this wondrous God who wrote (or inspired)\n the scripture, of the prophets talked about in\n the scripture, of the miracles performed, & etc.\n He is also told that to question this (as\n children are apt to do) is a sin, a crime\n against God, and to lose belief in the scrip-\n ture's truth is to damn one's soul to Hell.\n Thus, by the time he is able to read the\n scripture for himself, the belief in its \"truth\"\n is so ingrained in his mind it all seems a\n matter of course.\n \nBut it doesn't stop there. Once the child is able\n to read for himself, there is an endeavor to\n inculcate the child the \"right\" readings of\n scripture, to concentrate more on the pleasant\n readings, to gloss over the worse ones, and to\n explain away the unexplainable with \"mystery.\"\n Circular arguments, \"self-evdent\" facts and\n \"truths,\" unreasoning belief, and fear of\n hell is the meat of religion the child must eat\n of every day. To doubt, of course, means wrath\n of some sort, and the child must learn to put\n away his brain when the matter concerns God.\n All of this has some considerable effect on the\n child, so that when he becomes an adult, the \n superstitions he's been taught are nearly\n impossible to remove.\n \nAll of this leads me to ask whether the theist can\n truly be objective when questioning God, Hell,\n Heaven, the angels, souls, and all of the rest.\n Can he, for a moment, put aside this notion that\n God *does* exist and look at everything from\n a unbiased point of view? Obviously, most\n theists can somewhat, especially when presented\n with \"mythical gods\" (Homeric, Roman, Egyptian,\n & etc.). But can they put aside the assumption\n of God's existence and question it impartially?\n \nStephen\n\n _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ * Atheist\n _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ * Libertarian\n _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ * Pro-individuality\n _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ * Pro-responsibility\n_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Jr. * and all that jazz...\n\n-- ", "To all a.a readers:\n I have been asked be several of you to post a list of the SDA Church's \n27 Fundamental beliefs. I warn you now, it's a long list. However, I'll \npost it on Sunday. Sabbath is coming up soon so I won't be reading on \nSaturday. And I don't have time to do it now.\n I would GREATLY appreciate it if you would keep me in touch with what's \ngoing on.\n I hope all of you have a reastful and relaxing weekend. I hope it's \nthe best one so far!!", "\n[..]\n\n\nHello. Firstly, what do you exactly mean by \"fundamentalist\"? I will\nfor the time being assume that what you mean is that your friend believes\nthat the bible is God's word to mankind? I suspect that what happened\nto him is what he'll call being \"born again\"? Anyway, was that recent?\nIf the answer is \"yes\" to all the questions above, it is quite\nunderstandable. However, IMO, I'ld rather give advice to your friend!\nI think I've been through something similar to him, and one thing I can\nsay is that the basic problem is that each of you are now trying to\ncommunicate from different worldviews. Why he talks about those things\nis because they are now \"obvious\" to him. What is \"obvious\" to him is\nnot obvious to you. Secondly, why he may be very persuasive is because\nfrom his point of view, he has been on \"both sides of the fence\". This\nI mean that before he turned \"fundamentalist\", you two are agreeable\nbecause both of you see things from the same side. If suddenly, as if\na new world of reality has suddenly opened up to him, it is like the\ndiscovery of let's say a new continent, or a new planet. To him, he's\ngot to tell you because he has seen something much more wonderful than\nwhere he was, and what he thinks is much better than where you are now.\nYou have got to realise that from his point of view, he means well to\nyou, eventhough he may end up offending you. To him, it is worth that\nrisk. Nevertheless, it is really up to him to respect where you stand\nand listen to you as well. At this moment, it may be difficult because\nhe is either very excited or feel it is too urgent to keep quiet about,\nhowever, he may not realise that he's really putting you off.\n\n[...]\n\n\nSo far, I've only been trying to explain things from his side. However,\nI do understand how you feel too, because I wasn't a Christian for a good\npart of my life as well. I was quite turned off by Christians or\n\"fundamentalists\" who were really all out and enthusiastic about their\nfaith. They really scared me, to tell you the truth. Unfortunately,\n\"religious belief\" is a very personal thing, just as your agnosticism\nis also a very personal thing to you. Since the Christian belief is\ninevitably at odds with anything non-Christian (religious or otherwise),\nit will be a touchy matter. Like all friendships, it will take both\nsides to do their part to make it work. In this matter, maybe you can\ndo your part by telling him nicely that you are not able to dig what he's\ntrying to convince you about, that it's beyond you or not your concern\n\"for now\". Don't tell him it's nonsense, because to him it is reality -\nand that would be a real insult. He'll also have to be careful not to\ninsult where you stand too.\n\nLike I said before, I wish I could give your friend some advice too.\nI'll admit that I did similarly to some of my friends when I became a\nChristian. In some ways, I wish I could have done things a little\ndifferently. However, it was difficult then because I was so excited\nand just blabbered away about what I've found! To me, it was too good\nnot to know. To some, I was crazy, and I didn't really care most of\nthe time what they thought. You will probably think he's crazy too -\nbut God is very real to him, as real as you are to him. Keep that in\nmind. And he thinks he can convince you because since God is so real\nto him, he doesn't see why God can't be real to you too.\n\nI don't know how helpful this is to you. But all the best anyhow -\nthis is quite a challenge for you to face. By the way, personal\nconviction: nobody is \"beyond saving\" except the one we call the \ndevil and his hosts.", "\n: >True, man did not invent the need for food, shelter, warmth and the ilk,\n: >but man did invent the property laws and the laws of trespass. \n: But how do you think property is generated ? Does it grow automatically\n: on trees when we wish so, or someone has to produce it ?\n\nSome say it was generated by God or Goddess; some say it was the result of\nthe coalescence of billions of tons of interstellar debris. In either case,\nthe property of which Xavier speaks has been around for millions of years.\n\n\n: It all follows from the fact that Mother Nature does not\n: provide us automatically with our needs,\n\nOh? When did She *stop*? Mother Nature has been automatically providing\nus with her bounty ever since we crawled out of the primordial ooze. It\nis not \"produced\": it produces itself, year after year. Last night, for\nexample, I saw four deer crossing the road (pretty sight, too); in an\nearlier time, one of them would have been dinner.\n\n: There are 2 ways to go with produced things: the first is to \n: _trade_ it with the the person(s) who produced it. \n: The other one is to take it with a gun from the person who produced\n: it. The first way is the civilized method, the second is how savages\n: arrange their affairs.\n\nThe American Indians had no concept of ownership of property, and often\nfreely gave of their supplies to neighboring tribes, trading food and\nclothing for weapons or services. The Native Hawaiians, like their\nPolynesian ancestors, also could not conceive of that idea, and shared\nmany things with the other Islanders. In fact, \"hi'ipoi\", the Hawaiian\nword for \"cherish\" means \"sharing food\". The Great Mahele, in which\nthe Islands were divided up more-or-less evenly between the rich and\nthe poor, was a white man's idea. In Africa, villagers will often\nshare tools, crops, and clothing with other members of their own village\nand neighboring villages. Every anthropologist who has ever been to\nAfrica has at least one tale of the difficulties arising from the so-\ncalled \"theft\" of the scientists possessions -- two concepts of which,\nuntil the visitors came along, the natives had no understanding.\n\nThese are the people we call \"savages\".\n\nOn the other hand, car-jackings and muggings are up from last year.\n\nDov, before you make further comment on this thread, I think it would\nbehoove you to study *all* of the facts.\n", "The Christian Reformed Church does not allow people to belong to lodges,\nthe Reformed Church in America does. The conservatives in both churches\nare very similar, as are the \"progressives\". The RCA currently ordains\nwomen; the CRC is fighting over the issue.", "OFM responds to a query about reference works:\n\n [Aside from a commentary, you might also want to consider an\n introduction. These are books intended for use in undergraduate Bible\n courses. They give historical background, discussion of literary\n styles, etc. And generally they have good bibligraphies for further\n reading. I typically recommend Kee, Froehlich and Young's NT\n introduction...\n\nTwo other Intros to consider:\n\nThe \"Introduction\" by Ku:mmel is a translation of a strandard NT text.\nThe references are slightly dated and the style is somewhat dense, but\nthe book contains a wealth of information.\n\nPerrin and Duling's Intro is also very good. It's somewhat more\nmodern than Ku:mmel's but not quite so densely packed. Also the\nauthors tend to go through the books of the NT in the historical order\nof composition; this gives a very useful perspective on the\ndevelopment of the NT.\n\n ... There are also some good one-volume commentaries. ... Probably the\n best recommendation these days would be Harper's Bible Commentary.\n\nA slight dissent: I think the Harper's is \"OK\" but not great. One\nparticular problem I have is that it tends to be pretty skimpy on\nbibliographic material. My feeling is that it is OK for quick\nlook-ups, but not real useful for study in depth (e.g. I keep a copy\nin my office at work).\n\n ... (I think there may be a couple of books with this title...\n\nSo far as I know there is the only one book with this exact title\n(James L Mays, general editor, Harper and ROw, 1988) although I think\nI recall a (older) series under the name \"Harper Commentaries\". Also\nthere's a separate Harper's Bible Dictionary (most of my comments on\nthe HC also apply to the HBD.)\n\nMy favorite one-volume commentary is the \"New Jerome Biblical\nCommentary\". The NJBC is rather Catholic in focus and somewhat biased\ntowards the NT. (The reader can decide for her- or himself whether\nthese are pluses or minuses.) In any case the scholarship is by and\nlarge excellent.\n\nNOTE: The NJBC is a completely reworked, updated version of the\n\"Jerome Biblical Commentary\", copies of which can still be found on\nsale.", "\n I'm sorry, I thought we were discussing heresy. I assumed that heresy\nmeant a departure from orthodoxy, in which case generally accepted belief is\nindeed an important issue. In this case, the definition of the word \"create\"\nis of great importance, since creation is the issue being discussed.\n\n\n I should have said \"given the Mormon belief.\" If you disagree with the\nMormon belief that creation is more a function of organization of eternally\nexistent substance than one of ex nihilo creation, then that is the important\npoint.\n\n\n Correction: you interpret the Bible to mean something very specific by\nsuch terms.\n\n It always cracks me up when anti-Mormons presume to tell Mormons what they\nbelieve. Mormons do, in fact, believe that all people, including Christ and\nLucifer, are children of God in the sense that we were all created (or\norganized or whatever) by Him. We also believe that being \"offspring\" of\nGod has a symbolic sense when applied to being spiritually \"born again\" of\nHim. Thus the same word can be used to convey different meanings. This is\nhow language works, Robert, and it's why making someone an offender for a\nword is dangerous.\n\n\n<...>\n\n On the contrary, Robert, it is not a red herring at all to show that those\nwho rely wholly on the Bible cannot seem to agree on what it says. You say\nthat one must simply \"look at the Bible\" to see what it teaches, but centuries\nof people doing just that have sho0wn that no one is really sure what it says.\nAre we to believe that you are the only one who really understands the\nscriptures?\n\n\n Let me clarify this one more time. You did not refer to the Mormon belief\nthat Jesus needed to be saved, but rather to McConkie's belief in same. We\nkeep trying to point out to you that Bruce McConkie is not the source of\nMormon doctrine, and you keep ignoring it. (see below)\n\n\n On the contrary, Robert, if you are quoting McConkie's words as Mormon\ncanon then the question of whether they are canon or not is of *great*\nimportance. The fact is that they are not. Whether or not they indicate\ngeneral Mormon belief would only be ascertainable by interviewing a large\nnumber of Mormons.", "\nI haven't followed whatever discussion there may have been on these\npeople, but I feel that C. S. Lewis is an excellent apologist and I\nsee no reason for embarrassment. If you think that errors and flawed\narguments are a reason for dismissing a thinker, you must dismiss\nnearly every thinker from Descartes to Kant; any philosophy course\nwill introduce you to their weaknesses. \n \n The above also expresses a rather odd sense\n\nI said nothing about \"the masses.\" However comparing \"the masses\" in\nour day and in Aquinas' day really *is* odd. Read Ortega y Gasset on\nthis.\n\nI'm talking about the familiar experience of arguing all night and\nwinning on logic and evidence, only to discover your opponent to be\nunaware, even intuitively, of things like entailment (let alone\npragmatics). (I am assuming that both parties are college graduates\nor better...) Myself, I don't bother any more.\n\nKen", "\nYou write as if no-one ever became a Christian except people from\nChristian families. This is not true, as quite a few people on this\ngroup can attest (including me). \n", "\nI wouldn't punish him with eternal torture if he didn't love me. But then\nI;m a decent chap. It seems your god isn't.\n\n\nI've looked, and he wasn't. Another promise broken.\n\n\nLying bastard! How do you know what effort I have and have not given? \n\n\nCan anyone eaplain what he's just said here?\n\nPeter", "\n\nAh, double-fulfillment. First of all I would say that I'm not sure all\nthe prophecies had double-fulfillment, e.g., the Isaiah 7:14 prophecy.\n\nI would say that just because this happens on some occasions does not mean\nit will occur always, especially with regard to NT prophecies. The apostles\nwho quoted the OT and applied those passages to Jesus were acting as divine\nmessengers and giving the inerrant Word of God to the Church. No one has\nthat authority today. No one has the apostolic authority to say that\nsuch-and-such a prophecy has double-fulfillment. If the imagry of\nRevelation fits with events of the 1st century, it is folly for us to try\nand make it apply to events 20 centuries later.\n", "\nI'm for the moment interested in this notion of the 'leap of faith'\nestablished by Kierkegaard. It clearly points out a possible solution\nto transcendental values. What I don't understand is that it also\nclearly shows the existentialism system where any leap to any\ntranscendental direction is equal. \n\nIn other words I might not jump off the cliff mentioned above,\nbut at the same time I will decide to what direction I will go.\nActually I will do it just now.\n\nCheers,\nKent", "[deleted]\n\nThe person who was telling me about the Septuagint version said that the Greeks\nhad a wonderful library in Alexandria that was full of manuscripts/scrolls\nand that it was burned soon after the Septuagint version was translated \n(perhaps to conceal some changes in the different versions, or perhaps just\nas part of the typical burning of valuable things that occurs during changes\nin power groups, he/I dunno).\n\n\n\nWell, perhaps this is the answer then.\n\n[deleted]\n\nThanks for the tips. Now I just have to find someone to teach me Samaritan :)\n\nJust me,\n\nlittle 'e'\n\n(so, is a \"good Samaritan hard to find?\" or \"is a hard... \" Oh, finish this\nyourself.)\n", "I posted this a couple of weeks ago, and it doesn't seem to have appeared \non the newsgroup, and I haven't had a reply from the moderator. We were \nhaving intermittent problems with our mail at the time. Please excuse me \nif you have seen this before...\n\nShould Christians fight?\n\nLast week Alastair posted some questions about fighting, and whether there \nare such things as \"justifiable wars\". I have started looking into these \nthings and have jotted down my findings as I go. I haven't answered all \nhis questions yet, and I know what I have here is on a slightly different \ntack, but possibly I'll be able to get into it more deeply later, and post \nsome more info soon.\n\nOur duty to our neighbour:\n\nDo good to all men (Gal 6:10)\nLove our neighbour as ourselves (Matt 22:39)\n\nAct the part of the good Samaritan (Luke 10) toward any who may be in \ntrouble. We will therefore render every possible assistance to an injured \nman, and therefore should not be part of any organisation which causes \npeople harm (even medical corps of the army etc).\n\nChristians are by faith \"citizens of the commonwealth of Israel\" \n(Ephesians 2:11-12), and also recognise that \"God rules in the kingdoms of \nmen\", and therefore we should not be taking part in any of the struggles \nof those nations which we are not part of due to our faith.\n\nWe are to be \"strangers and pilgrims\" amongst the nations, so we are just \npassing through, and not part of any nation or any national aspirations \n(this can also be applied to politics etc, but that's another story). We \nare not supposed to \"strive\" or \"resist evil\" (even \"suffer yourselves to \nbe defrauded\") it is therefore incosistent for us to strive to assist in \npreserving a state which Christ will destroy when he returns to set up \nGod's kingdom.\n\nOur duty to the state.\n\n\"Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's and unto God \nthe things which be God's\" (Luke 20:25).\n\"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power \nbut of God; the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever resisteth \nthe power, resisteth the ordinance of God\" (Rom 13:1-2).\n\"Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake; whether \nit be to king as supreme... for so is the will of God that with well doing \nye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men\" (1 Pet 2:13-15)\n\nThese scriptures make it clear that submission to the powers that be is a \ndivine command, but it is equally clear from Acts 5:19-29 that when any \nordinance of man runs counter to God's law, we must refuse submission to \nit. The reason for this is that we are God's \"bond servants\" and His \nservice is our life's task. An example of the type of thing is in Col \n3:22-23 where bondservants were to \"work heartily as unto the Lord\" - so \nalso we should work as if our boss was God - i.e. \"Pressed down, shaken \ntogether, and running over\"... oops - a bit of a side track there...\n\nIn the contests between the nations, we are on God's side - a side that is \nnot fighting in the battle, but is \"testifying\" to the truth.\n\nWhen we believe in God and embrace His promises, we become \"fellow \ncitizens with the Saints and of the Household of God\", and are no longer \ninterested in associations of the world. Think of this in relation to \nunions etc as well. Paul tells us to \"lay aside every weight\" that we may \nrun \"the race that is set before us\", and if we are wise, we will discard \nany association which would retard our progress - \"Thou therefore endure \nhardness as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. No man that warreth entangleth \nhimself with the affairs of this life, that he may please him who hath \nchosen him to be a soldier\" (2 Tim 2:3-4).\n\nOne of these entanglements he warns about is \"be ye not unequally yoked \ntogether with unbelievers\". One of the obvious applications of this is \nmarriage with unbelievers, but it also covers things like business \npartnerships and any other position where we may form a close association \nwith any person or persons not believing the truth about God (in this case \nthe army). The principle comes from Deut 22:10 - remember that as well as \nthem being different animals of different strengths, one was clean and one \nunclean under the law. These ideas are strongly stressed in 2 Cor 6:13-18 \n- I suggest you read this. The yoking also has another aspect - that of \nservitude, and Jesus says \"take my yoke upon you\", so we are then yoked \nwith Christ and cannot be yoked with unbelievers. We have already seen \nthat we are bondservants of Christ, and Paul says \"become not ye the \nbondservants of men (1 Cor 7:23 RV).\n\nAn example from the Old Testament: the question is asked in 2 Chr 19:2 \n\"Shouldest thou help the ungodly...?\". The situation here is a good \nexample of what happens when you are yoked together with unbelievers. \nJehoshaphat was lucky to escape with his life. Here are the facts:\n1. He had made an affinity with Ahab, who had \"sold himself to work \nwickedness before the Lord\" (1 Kings 21:25).\n2. When asked by Ahab to form a military alliance, he had agreed and said \n\"I am as thou art, my people as thy people\" (1 Kings 22:4) - an unequal \nyoking.\n3. He sttod firm in refusing the advice of the false prophets and insisted \non hearing the prophet of the Lord (trying to do the right thing), he \nfound that he was yoked and therefore couldn't break away from the evil \nassociation he had made.\n\nGod says to us \"Come out from among them and be ye separate, and touch not \nthe unclean thing, and I will receive you and ye shall be my sons and \ndaughters\" (2 Cor 6:17).\n\nThis is more or less what I have found out so far - I'm still looking into \nit, as I don't think I've answered all the questions raised by Alastair \nyet. Heres a summary and a few things to think about:\n\nThe Christian in under command. Obedience to this command is an essential \nfactor in his relationship with Christ (John 15:10,14).\n\nTotal dedication to this course of action is required (Romans 12:1-2).\n\nDisobedience compromises the close relationship between Christ and his \nfollowers (1 Pet 2:7-8).\n\nWe are to be separated to God (Rom 6:4). This involves a master-servant \nrelationship (Rom 6:12,16).\n\nNo man can serve two masters (Matt 6:24,13,14).\n\nAll that is in the 'Kosmos' is lust and pride - quite opposed to Gos (1 \nJohn 2:16). Christs kingdom is not of this world (i.e. not worldly in \nnature) - if it was, his servants would fight to deliver him. If Christ is \nour master and he was not delivered by his servants because his kingdom \nwas not of this world, then his servants cannot possibly fight for another \nmaster.\n\nStrangers and pilgrims have no rights, and we cannot swear allegiance to \nanyone but God.\n\nThe servant of the Lord must not war but be gentle to all (2 Tim 2:24) - \nthis does not just apply to war, but also to avoiding strife throughout \nour lives. There is a war to be waged, not with man's weapons (2 Cor \n10:3-4), but with God's armour (Eph6:13-20).\n\nI'll probably post some more when I've had time to look into things a bit \nfurther.\n", "\nAnd the two simplest refutations are these:\n\n(1) What impact? The only record of impact comes from the New Testament.\nI have no guarantee that its books are in the least accurate, and that\nthe recorded \"impact\" actually happened. I find it interesting that no other\ncontemporary source records an eclipse, an earthquake, a temple curtain\nbeing torn, etc. The earliest written claim we have of Jesus' resurrection\nis from the Pauline epistles, none of which were written sooner than 20 years\nafter the supposed event.\n\n(2) It seems probable that no one displayed the body of Jesus because no\none knew where it was. I personally believe that the most likely\nexplanation was that the body was stolen (by disciples, or by graverobbers).\nDon't bother with the point about the guards ... it only appears in one\ngospel, and seems like exactly the sort of thing early Christians might make\nup in order to counter the grave-robbing charge. The New Testament does\nrecord that Jews believed the body had been stolen. If there were really\nguards, they could not have effectively made this claim, as they did.", "acooper@mac.cc.macalstr.edu (Turin Turambar, ME Department of Utter Misery)\nsaid re. Dan Schaertel's article [if I followed the quoting right]:\n\n\n\n\nI think it may also be worthwhile pointing out that if we\ntake the appellation `Rabbi' seriously then Jesus had a full\ngrasp of contemporary `scripture'\n\nMat21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures...\n\nMat22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing\nMat22:29 the scriptures, nor the power of God.\n\nFollowing from this, he would have been in a wonderful\nposition to fulfil prophesies, and the NT says as much:\n\nMat26:54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled,\nMat26:54 that thus it must be?\n\nMat26:56 But all this was done, that the scriptures of the\nMat26:56 prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples\nMat26:56 forsook him, and fled.\n\nIf the books comprising the referred-to `scripture' had not\nbeen accessible then it probably would be a different\nmatter.", "\nSeems he didn't understand anything about realities, liar, lunatic\nor the real thing is a very narrow view of the possibilities of Jesus\nmessage.\n\nSigh, it seems religion makes your mind/brain filter out anything\nthat does not fit into your personal scheme. \n\nSo anyone that thinks the possibilities with Jesus is bound to the\nclassical Lewis notion of 'liar, lunatic or saint' is indeed bound\nto become a Christian.\n\nCheers,\nKent", "The tongue that brings healing is a\n\ttree of life,\n\tbut a deceitful tongue crushes the\n\tspirit.", "\nThere's a difference between believing in the existence of an entity,\nand loving that entity. God _could_ show me directly that he exists,\nand I'd still have a free choice about whether to love him or not. So\nwhy doesn't he?\n-- \n------------------------------------------------------------------------\nKevin Anthoney kax@cs.nott.ac.uk\n Don't believe anything you read in .sig files.", "\n\n\tIs there room for nudists? After all, if you believe most upstanding\nmoral churches, nudity IS a sin...\n\n\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------", "\n\nYes.\n \n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ \n\nNo, look again. While you never *said* it, the implication is pretty clear.\nI'm sorry, but I can only respond to your words, not your true meaning. Usenet\nis a slippery medium. \n\n[deleted wrt the burden of proof]\nLook, I'm not supporting *any* dogmatic position. I'd be a fool to say that\nin the large group of people that are atheists, no people exist who wish to\nproselytize in the same fashion as religion. How many hard atheists do you \nsee posting here, anyway? Maybe I'mm just not looking hard enough...\n\n\nI never meant to do so, although I understand where you might get that idea.\nI was merely using the 'bible' example as an allegory to illustrate my\npoint.\n\n\nEvidence for what? Who? I think I may have lost this thread...\n \n[why theists are arrogant deleted]\n\nGuilty as charged. What I *meant* to say was, the theists who *are* arrogant\nare this way because they say ... Other than that, I thought my meaning\nwas clear enough. Any position that claims itself as superior to another with\nno supporting evidence is arrogant. Thanks for your apology, btw.\n\n\nExplained above.", "\nI don't know either. Truth be known, so little is known of angels\nto even guess. All we really know is that angels ALWAYS speak in\nthe nativ tongue of the person they're talking to, so perhaps they\ndon't have ANY language of their own.\n\n\nWell, we are told to test the spirits. While you could do this\nscripturally, to see if someones claims are backed by the bible,\nI see nothing wrong with making sure that that guy Lazarus really\nwas dead and now he's alive.\n\n\nIt's a common fallacy you commit. The non-falsifiability trick. How\ncan I prove it when not all the evidence may be seen? Answer: I\ncan't. The fallacy is in assuming that it is up to me to prove \nanything. \n\nWhen I say it has never been proven, I'm talking about the ones\nmaking the claims, not the skeptics, who are doing the proving.\n\nThe burden of proof rest with the claimant. Unfortunately, \n(pontification warning) our legal system seems to be headed in\nthe dangerous realm of making people prove their innocence (end\npontification).\n\nBut truthfully, Corinthians was so poorly written (or maybe just\nso poorly translated into English) that much remains unknown\nabout just what Paul really intended (despite claims of hard\nproof one way or another). Some will see his writings in\n1 cor 12-14 as saying don't do this don't do this and using\nsarcasm, metaphor, etc. while yet others take what he says literally\nsarcasms and metaphors notwithstanding.", "[To the moderator: I posted this about a week ago but it never showed\n up (locally) on the net. If this has already\n actually been posted, please fill free to flush\n this copy. --N]\n\nFrom: db7n+@andrew.cmu.edu (D. Andrew Byler)\n\n1] A english translation of this can be found in:\n \"The Acts of the Apostles, translated from the Codex Bezae, with an\n introduction on its Lucan Origin and Importance\", J. M. Wilson\n (London, 1923).\n\n2] Another work that might be useful is:\n \"The Acts of the Apostles, a Critical Edition with Introduction and\n Notes on Selected Passages\", Albert C. Clark (Oxford, 1933;\n reprinted 1970).\n\n(This is an edition of text of Acts that makes the assumption that the\ntext in Codex Bezae is the more authentic. I don't know if it\nactually contains an english translation or not.)\n\n3] Another useful that discusses many of the variants in detail is:\n \"The Theological Tendency of the Codex Bezae Cantabrigiensis in\n Acts\", Eldon J Epp (Cambridge, 1966).\n\n4] The most recent reference I found was an edition in French from the\nearly '80s. (I can supply the reference if anyone's interested.)\n\n5] Now, many of the works are going to be difficult to find. So if\nyou're interested in examining the differences in the long recension\nan excellent (and easily obtainable) discussion can be found in:\n \"A Textual Commentary on the Greek NT\", Bruce Metzger (United Bible\n Society, 1971).\n\nMetzger's book serves as a companion volume to the UBS 3rd edition of\nthe Greek NT. It contains a discussion on the reasoning that went\nbehind the decisions on each of the 1440 variant readings included in\nthe UBS3. Furthermore, notes on an addition 600 readings are\nincluded in aTCotGNT (the majority of these occur in Acts).\n\n \"[An attempt was made] to set before the reader a more or less full\n report (with an English translation) of the several additions and\n other modifications that are attested by Western witnesses ...\n Since many of these have no corresponding apparatus in the\n text-volume, care was taken to supply an adequate conspectus of the\n evidence that supports the divergent readings.\" (p 272).\n\n\n6] Most of the copies of the text of Acts that we have (including the\nones in Vaticanus and Siniaticus) adher pretty closely to the shorter\n(or Alexandrian) version. The longer version to which you refer is\nusually called the \"Western\" version and its main witness is the Codex\nBezae (althought there are a few other rather fragmentary sources).\n\n7] As far as size, the difference is that in Clark's edition\n(mentioned above) the book of Acts contains 19,983 words whereas the\ntext edited by Westcott and Hort (a typical Alexandrian text) contains\n18,401 words; i.e. a difference of about 8-1/2%.\n\n8] To answer the obvious questions, no, there are no major revelations\nin the longer text nor major omissions in the shorter text. The main\ndifference seems to \"expansion\" of detail in the Western text (or, if\nyou prefer \"contractions\" in the Alexandrian). The Western text seems\nto be given to more detail. There are some interesting specific\ncases, but this probably not the place to go into it in detail.\n\n9] The discussion over the years as to which of these versions is the\nmore authentic has been hot and heavy. If there is anything\napproaching a modern consensus it is (i) that neither text represents\npurely the \"authentic\" version, (ii) each variant reading has to be\nexamined on its own merits however, (iii) the variant in the\nAlexandrian text is the \"better\" more often than not.", "\nPerhaps we have different definitions of absolute then. To me,\nan absolute is something that is constant across time, culture,\nsituations, etc. True in every instance possible. Do you agree\nwith this definition? I think you do:\n\n\nA simple example:\n\nIn the New Testament (sorry I don't have a Bible at work, and can't\nprovide a reference), women are instructed to be silent and cover\ntheir heads in church. Now, this is scripture. By your definition, \nthis is truth and therefore absolute. \n\nDo women in your church speak? Do they cover their heads? If all \nscripture is absolute truth, it seems to me that women speaking in and \ncoming to church with bare heads should be intolerable to evangelicals. \nYet, clearly, women do speak in evangelical churches and come with bare \nheads. (At least this was the case in the evangelical churches I grew \nup in.)\n\nEvangelicals are clearly not taking this particular part of scripture \nto be absolute truth. (And there are plenty of other examples.)\nCan you reconcile this?\n\n\nI don't claim that there are *no* absolutes. I think there are very\nfew, though, and determining absolutes is difficult.\n\n\n\nBut you are claiming that all of Scripture is absolute. How can you\ndetermine absolutes derived from Scripture when you can't agree how\nto interpret the Scripture? \n\nIt's very difficult to see how you can claim something which is based \non your own *interpretation* is absolute. Do you deny that your own\nbackground, education, prejudices, etc. come into play when you read the \nBible, and determine how to interpret a passsage? Do you deny that \nyou in fact interpret?", "\n\n\n\n\nKent, with regards to the information contained in the Bible (which\nis the original context of this thread), Brian Kendig is inside a huge\nwall. Brian *IS* inside. The Bible and the information contained therein\nare outside the wall. Brian Kendig proves this very sad fact by the\nabsurd things he says. For example, \"If I get through into the firey\npit, I will cease to exist.\" The Bible doesn't say that. He hasn't\na clue even to what Jesus said about hell. That is but one example.", "\n\n\n\nJ.N. Darby was one of the founders of the \"Plymouth Brethren\" and an\nearly supporter of dispensationalism. F.F. Bruce highly approved\nof his translation. He also translated the Bible into several other\nlanguages.\n\n\nThis was from the same fellow who did Young's Concordance, which was\na standard reference work, similar to Strong's concordance.\n\n\nI believe that these just follow standard reference works.\n\n\nSome are by Larry Pierce (\"Brethren\"), some are by Baptists, and I\nthink that Thompson (of chain reference fame) was Presbyterian)\n\n\nAnother standard reference work that has been around for decades.\nA new version was just released and is available through Christian\nBook Distributers.\n\n\nC.I. Scofield was the creator of the Scofield Reference Bible. For many\npeople (but not me), this is THE STUDY BIBLE. The notes are strongly\ndispensational.\n\n\nThese are probably the most accurate Strong's numbers available.\n", "\nIn the Bible, there are a lot of instances where God speaks\nto people, where a person just \"came to know\" some piece\nof information, where a person walks off into the desert\nfor \"40 days\", etc. With all of God's power He certainly can\ndo whatever He wants when He wants it. The Bible \"ends\"\nwith the book of Revelations. But does God's reign end there ? No.\nSo who can say for sure that God's messages are either no longer\nhappening or still happening ?\n\nI can now hear the clamor for proof. 8-)\nWith the cold response I've gotten from the past from this\ngroup, it's very hard to get the point across. I'll only\ngo over the physical stuff so that skeptics can look\nat documents stored somewhere. I've cited the uncorrupted\nbodies of saints before. They're still there. 8-)\nThe apparitions at Fatima, Portugal culminated in a miracle\nspecifically granted to show God's existence. That was\nthe spinning/descending of the sun. It was seen in several\ncountries. That event is \"approved\" by the Pope. Currently,\nimages of Mary in Japan, Korea, Yugoslavia, Philippines, Africa\nare showing tears (natural or blood). These are still under\ninvestigation by the Church. But realize that investigations\ntake decades to finish. And if the message is Christ will come\nin ten days, that's a bit too late, isn't it 8-).\nOther events under investigation are inner locutions (\"coming\nto know\"), stigmata (the person exhibits Christ's wounds. And\nthey don't heal. And doctor's don't know why).\nNon-believers are welcome to pore through documents, I'm sure.\n\nThis stuff is not like Koresh. Or Oral Roberts (give me $5M\nor God will call me home). It's free. Find out why they're\nhappening (as we ourselves are studying why). If anybody\ncan figure this out, tell us ! You can be of any religion.\nIf you have the resources, go to one of the countries I mentioned.\nThese are not \"members only\" events. God and Mary invites \neverybody.\n\nSo in conclusion (finally) ...\nWe RC's believe in the modern day manifestations of God and Mary.\nWe are scared to death sometimes although we're told not to.\nThere are more proofs and events. And that is why \"not everything\nis in the Bible\". Although in a lot of the apparitions, we are told\nto read the Bible.\n\nAs far as the Protestant vs. Catholics issue is concerned...\nIn the end, God's churches will unite. I'm not sure how.\nI have some idea. But the point is we shouldn't worry\nabout the \"versus\" part. Just do God's work. That's all\nthat matters. Unity will come.\n\nBTW, I'm just a plain person. I'm not the Pope's spokesperson.\nBut I am RC.\n\n-- ", "On Sunday 9 May 1993, Kenneth Engel writes (in substance):\n\n We are told that the penalty for sin is an eternity in Hell.\n We are told that Jesus paid the penalty, suffering in our stead.\n But Jesus did not spend an eternity in Hell.\n\nThis objection presupposes the \"forensic substitution\" theory of the\nAtonement. Not everyone who believes in the Atonement understands it\nin those terms. For an expansion of this statement, send the\nmessages\n GET GEN04 RUFF\n GET GEN05 RUFF\n GET GEN06 RUFF\n GET GEN07 RUFF\n to LISTSERV@ASUACAD.BITNET or to LISTSERV@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU\n\nNote that the character after the \"GEN\" is a zero. If you want to\nread my opun from the beginning, start with GEN01.", ": Having met Peter Kingston (of WBT) some years back, he struck me \n: as an exemplery and dedicated Christian whose main concern was with\n: translation of the Word of God and the welfare of the people\n: group he was serving.\n: WBT literature is concerned mainly with providing Scripture\n: in minority languages.\n\nYes, in fact Peter is now at Wycliffe HQ in the U.K., and is a member of my\nchurch. I would fully endorse the above -- Peter is a very Godly man, with a\npassion for serving Christ.\n\nOn one occasion he specifically addressed the issue of ``cultural\ninterference'' in a sermon, presumably from his experience of allegations\ndirected at Wycliffe. (Perhaps I could find the tape...?)", "\nIndeed, the immediate context [NASB] is:\n\n 26 Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often\n since the foundation of the world; but now once at\n the consummation He has been manifested to put away \n sin by the sacrifice of Himself.\n\n 27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die\n once, and after this comes judgement;\n\n 28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear\n the sins of many, shall appear a second time, not to\n bear sin, tro those who eagerly await him.\n\n\nThe first point is that this verse is part of an even larger\ncontext, the subject of which is not the destiny of the\nindividual human soul but rather the singular nature of Christ's\nsacrifice, \"once\", and the fulfillment of the law for all of fallen \nmankind. Rudolf Frieling elaborates this in detail in his \n\"Christianity and Reincarnation\". The thrust of the passage\nin its context is to liken the one time incarnation and \nsacrifice of Christ for all mankind to the individual \nexperience of the human being after death. The \"once\" \nis repeated and emphasized, and it highlights the singularity \nof Christ's deed. One thing for certain it does is to \nrefute the claims of some that Christ incarnates more than \nonce. But the comparison to the human experience - die \nonce, then judgement (note: not \"the judgement\", but just \n\"judgement\". The word for judgement is \"krisis\".\n\nHebrews 9:27 is the one passage most often quoted in defense\nof the doctrine that the Bible denies reincarnation. At this\npoint, I would just emphasize again that the passages \nthat (arguably) speak against it are few, and that invariably\nthey are talking about something eles, and the apparent denial\nof reincarnation is either inferred, or, as in the case of\nHebrews, taken literally and deposited into an implied context,\nnamely a doctrine of the destiny of the human being after\ndeath.\n\nWhat should be considered seriously is that the Bible is essentially\nsilent about the fate of the individual human being between death\nand the Last Day. If you take the few passages that could possibly\nbe interpreted to mean a single earth life, they are arguable. And\nthere are other passages that point, arguably, in the other direc-\ntion. such as Matthew 11:14 and John 9:2.\n\nWe can continue to debate the individual scraps of scripture that\nmight have a bearinig on this, and indeed we should discuss them.\nBut what I wanted to introduce into the discussion was an approach\nto the idea of repeated earth lives that, unlike Hindu, Buddhist\nand \"new age\" teachings, takes full cognizance of the divinity, singular\nincarnation, death, burial, resurrection, and second coming of Christ\nas the savior of mankind; the accountability of each individual for\nhis deeds and the reality of the Fall and of sin and its consequences;\nthe redemption of man from sin through Christ; the resurrection of\nthe body, and the Last Judgement.\n\nTaken in this larger sense, many serious questions take on an entirely\ndifferent perspective. E.g. the destiny of those who died in their\nsins before Christ came. the relationship of faith and grace to \nworks, the meaning of \"deathbed conversion\", the meaning of the\nsacraments, and many other things. Not that I propose to answer all\nthose questions by a simple doctrine of convenience, but only that\nthe discussion takes on a different dimension, and in my opinion\none that is truly worthy of both man, the earth, and their Creator and \nRedeemer. There are many deep questions that continue to be deep, such \nas the meaning of the second death, and how the whole of Christian\ndoctrine would apply to this larger perspective of human existence.\n\nThere are those who deeply believe that the things of which the Bible \ndoes not speak are not things we should be concerned with. But Christ\nalso indicated that there were other things that we would come to know\nin the future, including things that his disciples (and therefore others) \ncould not bear yet. This idea that the human capacity for growth in\nknowledge, not only of the individual in one lifetime, but of the whole\nof humanity, also takes on great meaning when we realize that our growth\nin the spirit is a long term process. The Bible was not meant to codify\nall spiritual knowledge in one place forever, but to proclaim the gospel\nof the incarnation and redeeming deed of Christ - taking the gospel in the\ngreater context, from Genesis to Revelation. Now, salvation (healing) becomes, \nnot the end of man's sojourn but its beginning. And the Last Judgement and\nthe New Heaven and Earth that follow it become its fulfullment.", "\n\nBecause that would contradict your religious beliefs; therefore,\nyou feel more comfortable simply accusing his sincerity, so you will\nnot have to critically examine your religious beliefs.\n", " \n(Deletion)\n \nYes, sorry. I have got that wrong. My apology.\n \n \n(Deletion)\n \n \nSo? No fun, but I must have met the minority then.\nAnd \"given by god\" refers to any action whereby a god\ngod causes or better effects something.\n \n \nRob, I am not intimate with Jewish theology, but I understand\nthat you are a Messianic Jew. Correct me if I am wrong, but\nit appears that the views of Messianic Jews on metaphysics\nis different to that of the majority of Jews. While Jewish\ntheology overall is quite distinct from the Christianic god\nviews, I have heard that it is possible for Jews to attribute\nevil to their god, an no-no for Christians, the Bible is\nstill seen as effect of the interaction of some god with man.\n \n \n(Deletion)\n \nThe context was metaphysics, even when the process of adapting\nthe commandments is not transcendent, the justification of the\nprocess lie in metaphysic specualtion. I wonder how you break\nout of the shackles of having metaphysics in your system.\n \n \n(Deletion)\n \nIs is in a book that commands to commit genocide among other\nreprehensible deeds. The context is repulsive, and it is\nfoul play, IMO, to invoke some relatively enlightened passages\nas an example for the content of the whole book.\n \n \n(Big deletion)\n \nNo, not the interpretation of some laws, but the interpretation of\nthe bible. As in the example that Sodom and Gomorrha mean argue\nwith god. The whole idea that it is metaphorically and yet allows\nyou to argue with a god (whatever that means, that alone is a theo-\nlogic question) is proof of a theology used.\n \n \n \nIt is an important question in the light of what for instance the\npassage witrh Sodom and Gomorrha means. Either there is some connection\nbetween the text, the fact that it exists, and your interpretation of\nit, or it is purely arbitrary.. Further, the question is why is has\none to carry the burden of Biblical texts when one could simply write\nother books that convey the message better. You might answer that one\ncan't becuase some peculiar Biblical information might be lost, but\nthat holds true of every other book, and the question remains why has\nthe Bible still a special place? Can't it be replaced somehow? Is it\nok to bargain the dangerous content of the Bible against some other\nmessage that is included as well?\n \n \n(Deletion)\n \nSorry, but there are worse systems does not say anything about if\none could not have a better system.\n \n(Deletion)\n \nIf we read two stories in the Bible, one that god commands people\nto kill children for being idolaters and another where god kills\nchildren directly, what is more important to resolve, the message that\nchildren are to be killed or if it has to be done by god?\n \n \nAnd the argument you have given is a fallacy, while it may not be important\nin the context you have given to find out if god is corporeal or not, it\ncan be crucial in other questions. Religious believers resolve contradictions\nwith that they choose one of the possibilities given in an arbitrary way,\nand have the advantage of being able to attribute their decision to some\ngod.", "Before you finalize your file in the FAQs (or after), you might want to \ncorrect the typo in the following:\n\n\nIt seems one or the other end of the rating scale should be identified with \n\"homosexual\".\n\nAs a personal note, I guess I differ with you on the question of work \nentering human life as a result of sin. \n \nBefore the fall (Gen 2:15) \"And the LORD God took the man, and put him into \nthe garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.\" which I would call \"work\". \nFor me, the difference introduced by sin is the painful aspects of work added \nat the fall (I take the cursing of the ground in vs.17-19 to apply to the \nwork for sustenance). In a way, some view \"work\" as a blessing (Ecclesiastes \nis a fun book! - for melancholies).\n\nI hope I do not sound caustic, maybe you can enlighten me further.\n\nWell, this is certainly a delicate subject, and I guess you accomplished what \nyou state as your purpose \"It summarizes arguments for allowing Christian \nhomosexuality\", not for me the most noble goal, but you are writing a FAQ.\n\nI wonder if you might temporize the apparent \"sentence\" of the specific \nhomosexual you propose (arguably tenuously define).\n Perhaps that would be true of \"celibacy from homosexual relations\", or \nrefrainng from their choice relationships, but that does not forbid \nheterosexual. Could they not have/enjoy heterosexual relations \"for what it \nwas worth\"?", "\nI heard the same thing, but without confirmation that he actually said it.\nIt was just as alarming to us as to you; the Bible says that nobody knows\nwhen the second coming will take place.\n", "continuing part #4 (I think); used by permission,\n\nTHE SOURCE AND NT MEANING\nOF ARSENOKOITAI, WITH IMPLICATIONS\nFOR CHRISTIAN ETHICS AND MINISTRY\n\n James B. DeYoung\n\nW. Petersen\n\n More recently Wright's understanding has itself been questioned from a\ndifferent direction. In a brief 1986 study William Petersen found linguistic\nconfusion in using the English word \"homosexuals\" as the meaning of\narsenokoitai.[22] He faulted Wright and English Bible translaions for\nrendering it by \"homosexuals\" in I Cor 6:9 and I Tim 1:10.\n\n In a sense Petersen has coalesced Bailey, Boswell, and Scroggs into a\nsingle assertion that reiterates, in effect, the position of Bailey. He finds\n\"homosexuals\" unacceptable as a translation because it is anachronistic. \"A\nmajor disjunction\" exists between contemporary thought and terminology and the\nthought and terminolgy in Paul's time (187-88).\n\n What is this \"disjunction\"? He bases it on historical and linguistic\nfacts. Accordingly, ancient Greek and Roman society treated male sexuality as\npolyvalent and characterized a person sexually only by his sexual acts. \nVirtually all forms of behavior, except transvestism, were acceptable. \nChristianity simply added the categories of \"natural\" and \"unnatural\" in\ndescribing these actions. Ancient society know nothing of the categories of\n\"homosexuals\" and \"heterosexuals,\" and assumed that, in the words of Dover\nquoted approvingly by Petersen, \"everyone responds at different times to both\nhomosexual and to heterosexual stimuli. . .\" (188). [23]\n\n In contrast to this, modern usage virtually limits the term \"homosexual\"\nto desire and propensity. K.M. Benkert, who in 1869 coined the German term\nequivalent to \"homosexual,\" used it as referring to orientation, impluse or\naffectional preference and having \"nothing to do with sexual acts\" (189).\n\n Petersen then proceeds to cite the \"Supplement to the Oxford English\nDictionary,\" which defines \"homosexual\" only as a propensity or desire with no\nmention of acts. Petersen's point is that by using \"homosexuals\" for\narsenokoitai, one wrongfully reads a modern concept back into early history\n\"where no equivalent concept existed\" (189). Consequently the translation is\ninaccurate because it \"includes celibate homophiles,. . . . incorrectly exludes\nheterosexuals who engage in homosexual acts . . . [and]incorrectly includes\nfemale homosexuals\" (19=89). Prior to 1869 there was no \"cognitive structure,\neither inour society or in antiquity, within which the modern bifurcation of\nhumanity into 'homosexuals' and 'hetersosexuals' made sence\" (189).\n\n The foregoing clarifies why Petersen feels that the translatio\n\"homosexual\" is mistaken. Yet is it possible that Petersen is the one\nmistaken, on both historical and linguistic or philological grounds? The next\nphases of this paper will critically examine Petersen's position.\n\n THE JUSTIFICATION FOR TRANSLATING\n ARSENOKOITAI BY \"HOMOSEXUALS\"\n\nHistorical Grounds\n\n A refutation of the foregoing opposition to the traslation of arsenokoitai\nby \"homosexuals\" begins with the historical and cultural evidence. Since\nvirtually everyone acknowledges that the word does not appear before Paul's\nusage, no historical settings earlier than his are available. Yet much writing\nreveals that ancient understanding of homosexuality prior to and contemporary\nwith Paul. The goal is to discover wheither the ancient s conceived of\nhomosexuality, particularly homosexual orientation, in a way similar to\npresent-day concepts. \n\n Peterson, Bailey, Boswell, and Scroggs claim that the homosexual\ncondition, desire, propensity, or inversion -whatever it is called- cannot be\npart of the definition of the term. They assert this either because the term\nis limited to acts of particular kind (Boswell, active male prostitutes; \nScroggs, pederasty) or because the homosexual condition was unknown in ancient\ntimes (Bailey; Petersen). The following discussion will show why neither of\nthese positions is legitimate. Attention will be devoted to the latter postion\nfirst with the former one being addressed below under \"Linguistic Grounds.\"\n\n In regard to the latter position, one may rightfully ask, did not the\nhomosexual condition exist before 1869? Is it only a modern phenomenon? Yet if\nit is universal, as alleged today, it must have existed always including\nancient times, even though there is lack of sophistication in discussing it. \nIndeed, evidence show that the ancients, pre-Christian and Christian, not only\nknew about the total spectrum of sexual behavior, including all forms of\nsame-sex activity (transvestism included), but also knoew about same-sex\norientation or condition. Petersen admits (190 n. 10) that Plato in\n\"Symposium\" (189d-192d) may be a \"sole possible exception\" to ancient\ningnorance of this condition. He discounts this, however, believing that even\nhere \"acts appear to be the deciding factor.\" However, this is a very\nsignificant exception, hardly worthy of being called \"an exception,\" because of\nthe following additional evidence for a homosexual condition.\n\n THe \"Symposium\" of Plato gives some of the strongest evidence for\nknowledge about the homosexual condition. [24] Plato posits a third sex\ncomprised of a maile-female (androgynon (\"man-woman\"). Hence \"original nature\"\npalai physis, consisted of three kinds of human beings. Zeus sliced these\nhuman beings in half, to weaken them so that they would not be a threat to the\ngods. Consequently each person seeks his or her other half, either one of the\nopposite sex or one of the same sex. Plato then quotes Aristophances:\n\n Each of us, then, is but a tally of a man, since every one shows like\n a flatfish the traces of having been sliced in two; and each is ever\n searching for the tally that will fit him. All the men who are sections\n of that composite sex that at first was called man-woman are \n woman-courters; our adulterers are mostly descended from that sex,\n whence likewise are derived our mancourting women and adulteresses.\n All the women who are sections of the woman have no great fancy for men:\n they are incllined rather to women, and of this stock are the she-minions.\n Men who are sections of the male pursue the masculine, and so long as \n their boyhood lasts they show themselves to be sliced of the male by\n making griends with men and delighting to lie with them and to be\n clasped in men's embrasces; these are the finest boys and striplings,\n for they have the most manly nature. Some say they are shameless\n creatures, but falsely: for their behavior is due not to shamelessness\n but to daring, manliness, and virility, since they are quick to welcome\n their like. Sure evidence of this is the fact that on reaching maturity\n these alone prove in a public career to be men. So when they come\n to man's estate they are boy-lovers, and have no natural interest in\n wiving and getting children but only do these things under stress of\n custom; they are quite contented to live together unwedded all their days.\n A man of this sort is at any rate born to be a lover of boys or the \n willing mate of a man, eagerly greeting his own kind. Well, when\n one of them -whether he be a boy-lover or a lover of any other sort- \n happens on his own particular half, the two of them are wondrously \n thrilled with affection and intimacy and love, and are hardly to be \n induced to leave each other's side for a single moment. These are\n they who continue together throughout life, though they could not\n even say what they would have of one another (191d-192c) [25]\n\nShould these two persons be offered the opportunity to be fused together for as\nlong as they live, or even in Hades, Aristophanes says that each \"would\nunreservedly deem that he had been offered just what he was yearning for all\nthe time: (192e).\n\n Several observations about this text are in order. Lesbianism is\ncontemplated, as will as male homosexuality (191e). \"Natural interest\" (ton\nnoun physei), (192b) refelects modern concepts of propensity or inclination. \nThe words, \"born to be a lover of boys or the willing mate of a man: \n(paiderastes te kai philerastes gignetai), (192b) reflect the modern claims \"to\nbe born this,\" i.e., as homosexual. The idea of mutuallity (\"the two of them\nare wondrously thrilled with affection and intimacy and love,\" 192b) is\npresent. Aristophanes even speaks of \"mutual love ingrained in mankind\nreassembling our early estate\" (ho eros emphytos allelon tois anthropois kai\ntes archaias physeos synagogeus, 191d). The concept of permanency (\"These are\nthey who continue together throughout life,\" 102c) is also present. Further\nmention of and/or allusion to permanecy, mutality, \"gay pride,\" pederasty,\nhomophobia, motive, desire, passion, and the nature of love and its works is\nrecognizable.\n\n Clearly the ancients thought of love (homosexual or other) apart from\nactions. THe speakers in the Symposium argue that motive in homosexuality is\ncrucial; money, office, influence, etc. . . bring reproach (182e-183a, 184b). \nThey mention the need to love the soul not the body (183e). There are tow\nkinds of love in the body (186b) and each has its \"desire\" and \"passion\"\n(186b-d). The speakers discuss the principles or \"matters\" of love (187c), the\ndesires of love (192c) and being \"males by nature\" (193c). Noteworthy is the\nspeech of Socrates who devotes much attention to explaining how desire is\nrelated to love and its objects (200a-201c). Desire is felt for \"what is not\nprovided or present; for something they have not or are not or lack.\" This is\nthe object of desire and love. Socrates clearly distinguishes between \"what\nsort of being is love\" and the \"works\" of love (201e). This ancient\nphilosopher could think of both realms -seaual acts as well as disposition of\nbeing or nature. His wors have significance for more than pederasty. [26]\n\n In summary, virtually every element in the modern discussion of love and\nhomosexuality is anticipated in the Symposium of Plato. Petersen is in error\nwhen he claims that the ancients could only think of homosexual acts, not\ninclination or orientation. Widespread evidence to the contray supports the\nlatter. [27]\n\n Biblical support for homosexuality inclination in the contexts where\nhomosexual acts are discribed adds to the case for the ancient distinction. In\nRom 1:21-28 such phrases as \"reasoning,\" \"heart,\" \"becoming foolish,\" \"desires\nof the heart.\" and \"reprobate mind\" prove Paul's concern for disposition and\ninclination along with the \"doing\" or \"working\" of evil (also see vv. 29-32). \nEven the catologues of vices are introdiced (I Tim 1:8-10) or concluded (I Cor\n6:9-11) by words describing what people \"are\" or \"were,\" not what they \"do.\" \nHabits betray what people are within, as also the Lord Jesus taught (cf. Matt.\n23:28). The inner condition is as important as the outer act; one gives rise\nto the other (cf. Mt 5:27).\n\n Petersen errs regarding other particulars too. Transvestism apparently\nwas accepted by the ancients. It was practiced among Canaaniteds, Syrian,\npeople of Asia Minor, as well as Greeks, according to S.R. Driver. [28] Only a\nfew moralist and Jewish writers are on record as condemning it. For example,\nSeneca (Moral Epistles 47.7-8) condemns homosexual exploitation that forces an\nadult slave to dress, be beardless, and behave as a woman. Philo also goes to\nsome length to describe the homosexuals of his day and their dressing as women\n(The Special Laws III, 37-41; see also his On the Virtues, 20-21, where he\njustifies prohibition of cross-dressing). Even the OT forbade the interchange\nof clothing between the sexes (Deut 22:5).\n\n Petersen is also wrong in attributing to Christianity the creating of the\n\"new labels\" of \"natural\" and \"unnatural\" for sexual behavior. These did not\nbegin with Paul (Rom 1:26-27) but go as far back as ancient Greece and even\nnon-Christian contemporaries used them. Plato, the TEST.NAPH., Philo, Josephu,\nPlutarch, and others used these words or related concepts. [29]\n\nLinguistic Grounds", "\n\tOne of the things I find intersting about pagan beliefs is\ntheir belief in a feminine deity as well as a masculine deity. Being\nbrought up in a Christian household, I often wondered if there was God\nthe Father, where was the mother? Everyone I know who has a father\nusually as a mother. It just seemed rather unbalanced to me. \n\tFortunately, my own personal theology, which will probably not\nfall into line with a lot others, recognized God as a being both\nwithout gender and posessing qualities of both genders, as being both\na masculine and feminine force. It provides a sense of balance I find\nsorely lacking in most theologies, a lack which I think is responsible\nfor a lot of the unbalanced ways in which we see the world and treat\neach other.", "\n\tFirst of all, I resent your assumption that you know why I\nam threatened by science, or even that I am threatened at all,\nalthough I admit the latter. The reason I am threatened by Science\nhas nothing to do with my need for proof of my Lord's existence--\nGod reveals Himself in many ways, including, to some degree,\nScience.\n\n\tMy problem with Science is that often it allows us to\nassume we know what is best for ourselves. God endowed us\nwith the ability to produce life through sexual relations,\nfor example, but He did not make that availible to everyone.\nDoes that mean that if Science can over-ride God's decision\nthrough alterations, that God wills for us to have the power\nto decide who should and should not be able to have \nchildren? Should men be allowed to have babies, if that\nis made possible.\n\n\tPeople have always had the ability to end lives\nunnaturally, and soon may have the ability to bring lives\ninto the world unnaturally. The closest thing to artificially\ncreated life is artificially created death, and as God\nhas reserved judgement about when people should die to\nHimself, I believe we should rely on God's wisdom about how\npeople should be brought in to the world.\n\n\tThis is not to say that I reject all forms of\nmedical treatment, however. Treatment that alleviates\npain, or prevents pain from occuring, is perfectly\nacceptable, I believe, as it was acceptable for Jesus\nto cure the sick. However, treatment that merely \nprolongs life for no reason, or makes unnecessary \nalterations to the body for mere aesthetic purposes, \ngo too far. Are we not happy with the beauty God\ngave us?\n\n\tI cannot draw a solid line regarding where I\nwould approve of Scientific study, and where I would not,\nbut I will say this: Before one experiments with the\nuniverse to find out all its secrets, one should ask\nwhy they want this knowledge. Before one alters the body\nthey have been given, they should ask themseles why their\nbody is not satisfactory too them as it is. I cannot\nmake any general rules that will cover all the cases, but\nI will say that each person should pray for guidance\nwhen trying to unravel the mysteries of the universe, and\nshould cease their unravelling if they have reason to \nbelieve their search is displeasing to God.", "ddavis@cass.ma02.bull.com (Dave Davis)\n\n \tII. The deuterocanonicals are not in the canon because\n \t\tthey are not quoted by the NT authors.\n\nThat is not quite accurate. Otherwise we would have the book\nof Enoch in the canon (as Dave noted). One can say that the \napocrypha are not quoted by Christ. \n\n\nIII. The deuterocanonicals are not in the canon because\n \t\tthey teach doctrines contrary to the (uncontroverted)\n \t\tparts of the canon.\n \n \tthen I answer: \n \t\tThese is a logically invalid *a priori*. \n \t\tBesides, we are talking about OT texts- \n \t\twhich in many parts are superceded by the NT\n \t\t(in the Xtian view). Would not this same\n \t\tprinciple exclude _Ecclesiastes_?\n \t\tThis principle cannot be consistently applied.\n \nI have to reject your argument here. The Spirit speaks with one\nvoice, and he does not contradict himself. \n\nThe ultimate test of canonicity is whether the words are inspired\nby the Spirit, i.e., God-breathed. It is a test which is more\nguided by faith than by reason or logic. The early church decided\nthat the Apocrypha did not meet this test--even though some books\nsuch as The Wisdom of Ben Sirach have their uses. For example,\nthe Lutheran hymn \"Now Thank We All Our God\" quotes a passage\nfrom this book.\n\nThe deutero-canonical books were added much later in the church's\nhistory. They do not have the same spiritual quality as the\nrest of Scripture. I do not believe the church that added these\nbooks was guided by the Spirit in so doing. And that is where\nthis sort of discussion ultimately ends.", "\nFirst by his fruits. The messiah comes to build the kingdom of heaven\non the earth. He also comes to first reveal the root cause of\noriginal sin (fallen nature) and then provide a means to cut the\nconnection to that original sin. He also wants to create world peace\nbased on Godism. The messiah's teachings will build on the foundation\nof the Bible but provide profound new insights into the nature of God,\nthe fall of man, the purpose of creation, and God's providence of\nrestoration. It will also provide a foundation for the unity of all\nthe World's religions.\n\nMany Christians expect Jesus to come on literal clouds, so they may\nmiss him when he returns. Just as the Jewish people missed Jesus 2000\nyears ago. They are still waiting for his first coming. The Jewish\npeople of that age expected Elijah to come first. Jesus said that\nJohn the Baptist was Elijah. But John the Baptist denied that he was\nElijah. (How did this reflect on Jesus?) Later in prison John even\nquestioned who Jesus was: \"is he the one who is to come or do we look\nfor another\". (see book of Matthew)\n\n\nDavid Koresh didn't even come close. The problem is that people like\nthis make it difficult for people to believe and trust in the real\nMessiah when he does show up.\n\n\nVery good point and perhaps the most important point of all for\nChristians: How to recognize the Second Coming?\n\nThe Messiah should not claim to be God. What sets a Messiah apart is\nthat he is born without original sin. He is not born perfect but\nachieves perfection after a period of growth. Adam and Eve were born\nsinless but they fell, and this tragedy meant that it would take God\nthousands of years to create the kingdom of heaven on the earth as God\noriginally intended. God's restoration providence is still not\ncomplete. The messiah is the true Son of God, one with God, God's\nrepresentative on the earth, but not God himself. There is only one\nGod.\n\n...\n\n\n\nWho else in this world is claiming to be the Messiah. Maybe he's already here.", "The ONLY unity I've found which is true is when all parties involved are\ndisciples. I came out of a church in which even the different\ncongregations were always competing and arguing about which one was\nbetter and who had the better messages (while none of them put anything\ninto practice from those messages). Since becoming a disciple, I've\nfound that when I travel to another church in the same movement, they\nare just as accepting there as any other. We had a retreat back in\nJanuary when some of the congregation from Louisville, KY came up (this\nretreat was for college students) and it was as though I had known even\nthe people from Louisville for years (and I had only become a disciple\nthe previous April and had never been to the church in Kentucky). One\nof the keys to unity is unselfish love and self-sacrifice. That is only\none area in which disciples stand out from \"Christians\". Also, another\npart of unity is a common depth of conviction. I've also been a part of\nsome \"Christian\" campus fellowships who were focused on unity between\nchurches and saw that those churches had one thing involved: a lack of\nconviction about everything they believed. That was why they could be\nunified, they didn't care about the truth but delighted in getting along\ntogether.\n\nCreeds? What need is there of creeds when the Bible stands firmly\nbetter?\n\n\nAccording to the Scriptures, splits and differences of opinion are going\nto be there. As per a previous note, I mentioned that there are those\nwho teach falsely by many means. There are also differences of opinion\nand belief. However, Scripture states: \n In the following directives I have no praise for you, for your\nmeetings do more harm than good. In the first place, I hear that when\nyou come together as a church, there re divisions among you, and to some\nextent I believe it. No doubt there have to be differences among you to\nshow which of you have God's approval (1 Corinthians 11:17-19).\n\nHow will God show his approval? By fruitfulness (see Acts 2:47), but\nbefore that, there are these qualities:\n devotion to the apostles teaching\n fellowship\n communion\n filling with awe for God\n all having everything in common.\n glad and sincere hearts\n praising God\n enjoying the favor of the people\nAll these are mentioned in Acts 2:42-47. God also shows that those who\nhave these qualities are persecuted. Look at Stephen, \"a man full of\nfaith and of the Holy Spirit\" (Acts 6:5) who was later stoned (Acts\n7:54-60). \n\n\nOne can say that a church is the true church only if that church is\nperfect not only in the congregation but worldwide as a movement. I\nhave yet to find that, but the closest one I've found is the Boston\nChurch of Christ movement, which constantly strives to have errors\npointed out and corrected. It is also the only one I've seen which is\ntotally sold out to God.\n\nAs for cooperation, that can always occur. Unity, on the other hand may\nnever occur. As for those who think about only one church being the\n\"true one\", I remind them that Mark 9:38-41 states that there are\ndisciples who are not a part of the main group to begin with, but they\nwill not lose their reward. As with the Boston movement, I've heard\nnumerous times this exact same thing, that there are disciples out there\nthat are not a part of the Boston movement but that does not make them\nany less disciples. Of course, few people admit that they've ever run\ninto someone who has the qualities of a disciple outside the movement.\nI know I haven't.\n\nI must warn that this sounds cliquey to me. A clique is a group which\nruns around together to some extent exclusively. This causes problems\nin fellowship and causes divisions. I would not say at all that this is\nsomething \"correct\" for a church/group to do for any reason. In one of\nthe churches I attended, for example, there was an internal clique of\npeople who were on the 14 different groups/committees/organizational\nheads of the congregation. They rarely talked to anyone else outside of\nthe committees and seldom were voted out of office without another\noffice being \"opened up\" so that they would have to step right back in.\nTheir degree of exclusion was such that when the new pastor came, he\nnearly had to wipe out everything and start from scratch (I wish he\nwould've since they still have no clue about what it means to be a\ndisciple). Anyway, this rigidity in the clique is beginning to be\nbroken down, but is still there. So, I must warn against such division\nwithin. There's enough division without.\n", "\nJ> YOU BLASHEPHEMERS!!! YOU WILL ALL GO TO HELL FOR NOT BELIEVING IN GOD!!!! BE\nJ> PREPARED FOR YOUR ETERNAL DAMNATION!!!\n\nHmm, I've got my MST3K lunch box, my travel scrabble, and a couple of\nkegs of Bass Ale. I'm all set! Let's go everybody! ", "\nNo.\n\n\nNo. The library at Alexandria was perhaps the greatest library ever\nbuilt in the world. The Greeks had a love of wisdom, philo sophos, and\nthis great love was reflected in the Alexandrian library. The Christians \ngot a hold of it and began modifying and purging texts and then the Moslems \ninvaded and either the Christians burned the library to keep it from falling \ninto Moslems hands (far more likely since they were the book burners, not the \nMoslems), or it burned in the sack of the city or the Moslems burned it. \nEither way, a tremendous amount of information was lost. The destruction of the\nlibrary of Alexandria was probably one of the greatest crimes of man\nagainst man.\n\n\nActually, the Hebrew almah, (young woman), was translated as the Hellenistic \nGreek parthenos which may or may not be correctly translated into the\nmodern and technical English term virgin. The Jews did not have the type\nof virginity cult that the Greco-Romans had in Artemis and Diana.\n\n\nThe standard text used by Christians and Jews is the Masoretic Text.\nJews of course use the text in its original Hebrew, without translation.\n\n\nPropaganda.", "\nI define faith as \"belief, in the abscense(sp?) of evidence\". I also\ninclude in \"evidence\" past experiences. Because I have no past experience\nin a god actually having an effect on my life and because I have never\nseen evidence for any god beyond what can be explained without the\nneccessity of a god or which is more convincing than the many fictional\nworks I have read (And other reasons), I do not believe in any god(s).\nFrom what I have seen, some people reconcile this lack of evidence by\nusing faith.\nIt is faith in that sense (the only way I _currently_ understand the word\n\"faith\") that I find intellectually dishonest.\n\n\nPascal's wager goes something like this:\nPremise #1: Either there is or there isn't a God.\nPremise #2: If God exists, He wants us to believe and will damn us for not\nbelieving.\nPremise #3: If God does not exist, then belief in God doesn't matter\nbecause death is death, anyway.\nConclusion: Belief in God is superior to non-belief because\nnon-belief damns us to eternal punishment if we are wrong, while belief in\nGod only wastes a little time in life if we are wrong.\n\nSound pretty straightforward and is logically sound. The problem is,\nPremise #1 presupposes 1:1 odds between belief and non-belief. This is\nflat out wrong, because of the sheer number of religions out there and the\nfact that, for the most part, the religions are mutually exclusive. I have\nheard theists referred to as \"99% atheists\" because they believe in their\ngod (or gods) to be the _one_ god (or set of gods). The consequence of\nthis is \"what if I pick the wrong god?\" Suddenly, the odds don't look so\ngood because picking the wrong god or wrong doctrines of a god still\nleaves you with the possibility of being wrong and being damned to another\ngod's version of hell.\n\n\nI don't see how \"disillusionment\" enters into it. You see, I presented my\nmother's treatment of me to show the cause of my questioning my atheism, a\nquestioning which continues to this day. I had already been an atheist for\nfive years before having any contact with my mother's version of\nChristianity. If anything, I had become somewhat disillusioned with\natheism (uh, oh, I thought, What if there *is* a God?). Yes, in a way, I\nhave also become disillusioned by many religions, simply because I had\nthought at one time that they had all the answers, if I only found the\nright one.\nI'm still looking, but each time I look in a different place, I become a\nlittle stronger in my attitude (belief, if you will, no faith, though,\nit's based on the evidence of past experience) that I'll never find a\nreligion which has all the answers.\nSorta like looking for Easter eggs. The more time it takes you to find the\nnext one, the more convinced you become that you may already have found\nall the eggs you're going to find.\nSomeone else mentioned that critisism isn't going to make me think any\nmore highly of Christians. I have a contrary position: Constructive\ncritisism will likely improve my attitude towards Christians. Abusive\ncritisism will turn me off.\nNo accusations to you, Mr. Sapienza. I merely slipped that into this post\nbecause I forgot to reply to that one.\n\n\nMuppets and Garlic Toast forever.\n\nMax (Bob) Muir", "\nI will clarify my earlier quote. God's laws were originally written for \nthe Israelites. Jesus changed that fact by now making the Law applicable to\nall people, not just the Jews. Gentiles could be part of the kingdom of\nHeaven through the saving grace of God. I never said that the Law was made\nobsolete by Jesus.\n\nIf anything, He clarified the Law such as in that quote you made. In the\nfollowing verses, Jesus takes several portions of the Law and expounds upon\nthe Law giving clearer meaning to what God intended. If you'll notice, He\nalso reams into the Pharisees for mucking up the Law with their own contrived\ninterpretations. They knew every letter of the Law and followed it with their\nheads but not their hearts. That is why He points out that our righteousness\nmust surpass that of the Pharisees in order to be accepted into the kingdom\nof Heaven. People such as the Pharisees are those who really go out of their\nway to debate about the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin.\nThey had become legalistic, rule-makers - religious lawyers who practiced the\nletter of the Law but never really believed in it. \n\nI think you will agree with me that there are in today's world, a lot of\nmodern-day Pharisees who know the bible from end to end but do not believe\nin it. What good is head knowledge if there is nothing in the heart?\n\nChristianity is not just a set of rules; it's a lifestyle that changes one's\nperspectives and personal conduct. And it demands obedience to God's will.\nSome people can live by it, but many others cannot or will not. That is their\nchoice and I have to respect it because God respects it too.\n\nGod be with you,", "Interesting point. The Bible doesn't say \"hate the sin\".\nIt tells to avoid sin, resist sin, even, when necessary, denounce sin.\nBut not hate.\n\n\n-- \n:- Michael A. Covington, Associate Research Scientist : *****\n:- Artificial Intelligence Programs mcovingt@ai.uga.edu : *********\n:- The University of Georgia phone 706 542-0358 : * * *\n:- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** ** <><\n\n[The following passages all talk about God or people God approves of\nhating sin or some other action. Ps 119:113 also talks about hating\nthe sinner. I believe there are other passages that would talk about\nhating someone who is evil, but I didn't turn them up in this search\n(which was on the word \"hate\" in the KJV, though I've crosschecked\neach passage in the NRSV).\n\nPs 97:10, 101:3, 105:25, 119:104, 113, 128, 163, , 139:21-22\nProv 6:16, 8:13\nIsa 61:8\nAmos 5:15\nZec 8:17\nRev 2:6", "\nThe thing is, I know what arms and legs are. It's therefore generally easy to\ntell whether or not someone has arms and legs. This \"sinful nature\", since it\ndoes not require that the baby actually perform any sins, seems to be totally\ninvisible. As far as I know, maybe half the babies have a sinful nature and\nhalf don't--it'd look exactly the same, since there is no way to tell the\ndifference.\n\n\nSo what's so bad about a sinful nature, then? I could understand it being\nbad if it always results in people committing sins, but babies can have it,\nnever commit sins, die, and they still have it. So the bad part about can't\nmerely be that it results in people committing sins--so what _is_ bad about it?\n--\n\"On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Leftover Turkey!\nOn the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Turkey Casserole\n that she made from Leftover Turkey.\n[days 3-4 deleted] ... Flaming Turkey Wings! ...\n -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait)", "\"CHRISTIANITY IN CRISIS\"\n by: Hank Hanegraaff\n\n\n\n \"Controversy for the sake of controversy is a sin.\n Controversy for the sake of truth is a divine command.\"\n -Dr. Walter Martin\n\n\nDr. Walter Martin personally selected Hank Hanegraaff to succeed him\nas President of the Christian Research Institute -- the largest \nevangelical counter-cult organization in the world. In this skillful, \ncareful treatment of an explosive subject, Hanegraaff documents and \nexamines how the beliefs of the Word of Faith movement clearly \ncompromises and confuse the essentials of the historic Christian \nfaith. For the first time ever, this large and influential movement\nis legitimately labeled as cultic.\n\nIn this book, Hanegraaff discusses such leaders of the Word of Faith \nmovement as E.W. Kenyon and the Twelve Apostles of \"another gospel\" \n(Gal 1:6-9) (Kenneth E. Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, Frederick\nK.C. Price, John Avanzini, Robert Tilton, Marilyn Hickey, Paul (David) \nYonggi Cho, Charles Capps, Jerry Savelle, Morris Cerullo, and Paul and \nJan Crouch).\n\nThe book is now available through Harvest House Publishers and should\nbe in most Christian Book Stores soon. You can order a hard-back copy \nthrough CRI for $14.99 by calling 1-800-443-9797 and avoid retail \nmark-ups.\n\nThe Christian Research Journal, which is a quarterly publication by CRI \nhas an article in it's most recent issue just released called, \"What's \nWrong With The Word Faith Movement?\" This is a good article that will \ninform you of each of the teachers above, and tide you over until your \nbook arrives. If you are interested in receiving the Journal yourself, \nyou can order it from CRI at the number above for $14 a year. It is the \nbest source of the most-accurate and well-researched info in Christiandom \ntoday.\n", "\n\n\tI agree, we spend too much energy on the nonexistance of God.\n\n--\n\n\n \"Satan and the Angels do not have freewill. \n They do what god tells them to do. \"", "\n\nWell now, we can't judge death until we are dead right? So, why should\nwe judge religion without having experienced it? People have said that\nreligion is bad by any account, and that it is in no way useful, etc.,\nbut I don't totally agree with this. Of course, we cannot really say\nhow the religious folk would act had they not been exposed to religion,\nbut some people at least seemed to be helped in some ways by it.\n\nSo basically, we can not judge whether religion is the right route for\na given individual, or even for a general population. We can say that\nit is not best for us personally (at least, you can choose not to use\nreligion--might be hard to try to find out its benefits, as you state\nabove).", " \n: I wonder how many atheists out there care to speculate on the face of\n: the world if atheists were the majority rather than the minority group\n: of the population. \n\nI've been thinking about this every now and then since I cut my ties\nwith Christianity. It is surprising to note that a large majority of\npeople, at least in Finland, seem to be apatheists - even though\n90 % of the population are members of the Lutheran Church of Finland,\nreligious people are actually a minority. \n\nCould it be possible that many people believe in god \"just in case\"?\nIt seems people do not want to seek the truth; they fall prey to Pascal's\nWager or other poor arguments. A small minority of those who do believe\nreads the Bible regularly. The majority doesn't care - it believes,\nbut doesn't know what or how. \n\nPeople don't usually allow their beliefs to change their lifestyle,\nthey only want to keep the virtual gate open. A Christian would say\nthat they are not \"born in the Spirit\", but this does not disturb them.\nReligion is not something to think about. \n\nI'm afraid a society with a true atheist majority is an impossible\ndream. Religions have a strong appeal to people, nevertheless - \na promise of life after death is something humans eagerly listen to.\nCoupled with threats of eternal torture and the idea that our\nmorality is under constant scrutiny of some cosmic cop, too many\npeople take the poison with a smile. Or just pretend to swallow\n(and unconsciously hope god wouldn't notice ;-) )\n\n: Also, how many atheists out there would actually take the stance and accor a\n: higher value to their way of thinking over the theistic way of thinking. The\n: typical selfish argument would be that both lines of thinking evolved from the\n: same inherent motivation, so one is not, intrinsically, different from the\n: other, qualitatively. But then again a measuring stick must be drawn\n: somewhere, and if we cannot assign value to a system of beliefs at its core,\n: than the only other alternative is to apply it to its periphery; ie, how it\n: expresses its own selfishness.\n\nIf logic and reason are valued, then I would claim that atheistic thinking\nis of higher value than the theistic exposition. Theists make unnecessary\nassumptions they believe in - I've yet to see good reasons to believe\nin gods, or to take a leap of faith at all. A revelation would do.\n\nHowever, why do we value logic and reasoning? This questions bears\nsome resemblance to a long-disputed problem in science: why mathematics\nworks? Strong deep structuralists, like Atkins, have proposed that\nperhaps, after all, everything _is_ mathematics. \n\nIs usefulness any criterion?\n\nPetri\n", "\nNot exactly correct, but nice try. The Catholic doctrine of infallibility\nrefers to freedom from error in teaching of the universal Church in \nmatters of faith or MORALS. It is this teaching which is taken as \ndoctrine. \n\n", "And he went out to meet Asa,\n\tAnd said unto him,\n\tHear ye me, Asa,\n\tAnd all Judah and Benjamin;\n\tThe LORD is with you, while ye be with him;\n\tand if ye seek him, he will be found of you;\n\tbut if ye forsake him, he will forsake you.", "\n\nIf this is God's attitude, then I'll think I'll go along with\nTerry Pratchett's religious philosophy:\n\n\"Oh, I believe in God. I just don't actually _like_ the blighter.\"\n\nP.", ": [first post I've seen from the ol' Bug-Zoo (BGSU)]\n: > There is no means that i can possibly think of to prove beyond doubt\n: >that a god does not exist (but if anyone has one, by all means, tell me\n: >what it is). Therefore, lacking this ability of absolute proof, being an\n: >atheist becomes an act of faith in and of itself, and this I cannot accept.\n: > I accept nothing on blind faith.\n\n: Invisible Pink Flying Unicorns! Need I say more?\n\nThere is also the question of what is meant by \"atheist\". A familiar\nexample of the importance of the meaning of the word is as follows.\n\nThe two statements following ARE consistent:\n\n(1) I do not believe that you are wearing lilac socks\n(2) I do not believe that you are are not wearing lilac socks\n\nThe two statements following are NOT consistent:\n\n(3) I do believe that you are wearing lilac socks\n(4) I do believe that you are are not wearing lilac socks\n\nStatements (1) and (2) require no faith, they make no presumptions about\nthe nature of reality. Statements (3) and (4) require belief. Many\natheists (myself included) take the following position:\n\n(5) I do not believe that there is a god.\n(6) I do not believe that there is not a god.", " \n \nDefine perfect then.\n \n \n \nTake your foot out of your mouth, I wondered about that already when I\nwas a Catholic Christian. The fact that the contradiction is unresolvable\nis one of the reasons why I am an atheist.\n \nBelieve me, I believed similar sentences for a long time. But that shows\nthe power of religion and not anything about its claims.\n \n \n \nIt follows from a definition of evil as ordinarily used. Letting evil\nhappen or allowing evil to take place, in this place even causing evil,\nis another evil.\n \n \n \nThe omniscient attribute of god will know what the creatures will do even\nbefore the omnipotent has created them. There is no choice left. All is known,\nthe course of events is fixed.\n \nNot even for the omniscient itself, to extend an argument by James Tims.\n \n \n \nAnd when I am not omnipotent, how can I have free will? You have said\nsomething about choices and the scenario gives them. Therefore we have\nwhat you define as free will.\n \nImagine the following. I can do good to other beings, but I cannot harm them.\nEasily implemented by making everyone appreciate being the object of good\ndeeds, but don't make them long for them, so they can not feel the absence\nof good as evil.\n \nBut whose case am I arguing? It is conceivable, so the omnipotent can do it.\nOr it would not be omnipotent. If you want logically consistent as well, you\nhave to give up the pet idea of an omnipotent first.\n \n(Deletion)\n \nThat the bible describes an omniscient and omnipotent god destroys\nthe credibility of the bible, nothing less.", "\n\n\tSorry, I was, but I somehow have misplaced my diskette from the last \ncouple of months or so. However, thanks to the efforts of Bobby, it is being \nreplenished rather quickly! \n\n\tHere is a recent favorite:\n\n\t--\n\n\n \"Satan and the Angels do not have freewill. \n They do what god tells them to do. \"\n\n S.N. Mozumder (snm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu) \n\n\n--\n\n\n \"Satan and the Angels do not have freewill. \n They do what god tells them to do. \"", "\n\nNo. I also understand it. I have read the Bible from cover to cover, examining\neach book within, cross-comparing them, etc. And I have come to same conclusions\nas Robert Weiss.", "\n How about this description: \"An object that is, at one time, both a\nEuclidean square and a Euclidean circle\"? I hold that no object satisfying\nthis description could exist. The description is inconsistent, and hence\ndescribes an object that could not exist.\n Now, suppose someone pointed to a bicycle, and said, \"That object is,\nat one time, both a Euclidean square and a Euclidean circle.\" This does\nnot mean that the bicycle does not exist, it measn that the description\nwas incorrectly applied.\n \n The atheist says, \"The descriptions of God that I have been presented with\nare contradictory, and hence describe something that cannot exist.\"\n Now, your position (so far as I can gather) is that God exists, but the\ndescriptions atheists have been presented with are simply bad descriptions\nof It.\n This is roughly analogous to someone who has never seen a bicycle, and,\nwhen they ask for a description from people who claim to have seen one,\nare told that it is a \"Euclidean circle-square\". Can they be blamed for\ndoubting rather strongly that this 'bicycle' exists at all?\n\n\n No kidding. :->\n\n Sincerely,\n\n Ray Ingles ingles@engin.umich.edu", " \n \n(deletion)\n \n \nBogus. I just said that theism is not the only factor for fanatism.\nThe point is that theism is *a* factor.\n \n \n \nThat's a claim you have to support. Please note that especially in the\nfield of theism, the leaders believe what they say.\n \n \n \nThat's a straw man. And as usually in discussions with you one has to\nrepeat it: Read what I have written above: not every theism leads to\nfanatism, and not all fanatism is caused by theism. The point is,\nthere is a correlation, and it comes from innate features of theism.\n \nGullibility, by the way, is one of them.\n \n \nAnd to say that I am going to forbid religion is another of your straw\nmen. Interesting that you have nothing better to offer.\n \n \n \nThat's bogus. Self reference is not circular. And since the evaluation of\nusefulness is possible within rational systems, it is allowed.\n \nYour argument is as silly as proving mathematical statements needs mathematics\nand mathematics are therfore circular.\n \n \n \nI've been speaking of religious systems with contradictory definitions\nof god here.\n \nAn axiomatic datum lends itself to rational analysis, what you say here\nis a an often refuted fallacy. Have a look at the discussion of the\naxiom of choice. And further, one can evaluate axioms in larger systems\nout of which they are usually derived. \"I exist\" is derived, if you want\nit that way.\n \nFurther, one can test the consistency and so on of a set of axioms.\n \nwhat is it you are trying to say?\n \n \n \nUsing the traditonal definition of gods. Personal, supernatural entities\nwith objective effects on this world. Usually connected to morals and/or\nthe way the world works.\n \n \n \nPerson A believes system B becuase it sounds so nice. That does not make\nB true, it is at best a work hypothesis. However, the content of B is that\nit is true AND that it is more than a work hypothesis. Testing or evaluating\nevidence for or against it therefore dismissed because B (already believed)\nsays it is wronG/ a waste of time/ not possible. Depending on the further\ncontents of B Amalekites/Idolaters/Protestants are to be killed, this can\nhave interesting effects.", "\nThere are definitely quite a few horrible deaths as the result of both\natheists AND theists. I'm sure Bobby can list quite a few for the atheist\nside but fails to recognize that the theists are equally proficient at\ngenocide. Perhaps, since I'm a bit weak on history, somone here would like\nto give a list of wars caused/led by theists? I can think of a few (Hitler\nclaimed to be a Christian for example) but a more complete list would\nprobably be more effective in showing Bobby just how absurd his statement\nis.\n\n\nOn a side note, I notice you always sign your posts \"Peace\". Perhaps you\nshould take your own advice and leave the atheists in peace with their\nbeliefs?\n\n\nNanci", " \n(deletion)\n \nStraw man. And you brought up leniency.\n \n \n \nAssuming that misjudgements are not correlated.\n \n \n(Deletion)\n \nHas been discussed here. Chapter and verse were cited, I assume that you\nweren't looking then.\n \nLet's be more exact, do you think it is not in the Quran?. And what would\nyour consequences be when it it was shown to be in it?\n \n \n \nI have not claimed that. It is sufficient for the argument when there are\na lot of male dominated societies that qualify as Machistic. Are you going\nto say that the situation of women is better in sufficeint areas of the\nOrient?\n \n \n(Deletion)\n \nYou apparently have trouble reading things you don't like. The point was\nhaving sex the way one wishes being a strong desire. Marriage is a red\nherring. Tell me about homosexuals, for one. You simply ignore everything\nthat doesn't fit into the world as you would like to have it.", "Note: the following article is submitted on behalf of someone (Frank \ndaniels) who has difficulty posting to s.r.c, email replies to \ndaniels@math.ufl.edu\n\n\tI am unable to post to the bitnet groups.\n\tHere is a capsule history of the Shepherding/Discipleship Movement in\nthe Churches of Christ (i.e. Crossroads/Boston):\n\n\tI could trace the Movement back as far as 1800, and indeed some of its\nroots go back that far, but these were really \"influences\" on the Movement,\nand not the actual movement, per se.\n\tI will start in c.1920.\n\tIn that day, there were 'white' churches and 'colored' churches in\nnearly every area (due to segregation). Modern Pentecostalism was developing\nas a predominantly 'colored' phenomenon. Here, there was great fanaticism,\nemphasis on emotional experiences, and belief in a personal guidance and\nindwelling of the Holy Spirit.\n\tMany 'white' Protestant churches were growing into what became known\nas conservative fundamentalism. By the 1940s, the evangelical movement was\nin full swing, and many groups were becoming part of it.\n\tWhen the civil rights movement grew stronger (in the 1950's and \n1960's),\nmany 'white' church groups began to be influenced by the 'black' churches and\nby what was going on there. This spread started in the most liberal of groups\nand spread to the more conservative ones by the late '60's. In 1969, even the\nCatholic Church was displaying evidence of influence by the other \ngroups...still\nevident today.\n\n\tThe Churches of Christ are (and were) a very conservative Protestant\ngroup. When the influence from outside began to reach the CofC in c.1965, it\nwas generally not appreciated. Conservative groups are very strongly \nresistant\nto change, and the new movement was VERY different from the CofC status quo.\n\tThe magazines put out at that time by CofC folks tell the story as it\nunfolds. New ideas came into the CofC. There was a big push to reach out to\ncollege students, young adults, and teens. Some called this the Campus \nEvangel-\nism Movement. Emotions, generally not highly regarded in the CofC at large,\nplayed a more important role in the new movement. In some places, people \nbegan\nto speak in tongues (as their Pentecostal predecessors did).\n\tThis was met with extreme criticism from within the Churches of \nChrist.\nIn some places, people were fired from their jobs for speaking in tongues or \nfor\nadvocating the \"Holy Spirit Movement\", another name for the new branch. The\nterm \"Underground Church of Christ\" also came into use because these people \nhad\nto hide their differences (or they might be ostricised).\n\tThere were several congregations, however, whose leaderships were\nreceptive to the new ideas (at least in part; the tongues-speaking never \nreally\ncaught on). One of these was the 14th Street Church of Christ in Gainesville,\nFL. Campus Ministry had already been regarded as important at 14th Street, \nand\nthe new ideas seemed to be very helpful tools for evangelism. They also \nseemed\nto put vitality into the church, which many felt had been lacking.\n\tIn October of 1967, the 14th Street congregation hired Chuck Lucas to\nbe its Campus Minister. By 1970, he would move to being the congregation's\n(lead) Minister. In the late 60's/early 70's, the congregation worked with \nmany\nother groups. They held Bible discussions at Daytona Beach during Spring \nBreak.\nThey organized talks in the fraternities on the University of Florida campus.\nThey also worked with UF sports people.\n\tIn 1972, the congregation ordered a larger building to be constructed.\nWhen it was finished, the group moved and changed its name (now no longer\nappropriate). It became the Crossroads Church of Christ from then on, a name\nthat would become legendary.\n\n\tBy this time, Crossroads was basically the only CofC whose programs\nwere fully aligned to the new movement. While they didn't start it, they \ncontinued it and were responsible for where it wound up going.\n\tBy 1975, none of the other Churches of Christ in the area felt that\nthey could cooperate with Crossroads, due to what they recognized as doctrinal\nproblems at Crossroads.\n\tCrossroads had begun to heavily emphasize, and later require \nattendance\nat all church functions. It was seen as a good thing for each member to have\nat least one close relationship, a person with whom you would share all of\nyour problems, pray, and get help from. The concept was called Prayer \nPartners,\nwhich later became Discipleship Partners and also later became mandatory. The\nleadership was assigning prayer partners to people for a while.\n\tThe book called \"The Master Plan of Evangelism\" was a strong influence\non Chuck Lucas. He (and the group) believed that it was every person's duty\nand life purpose to carry out the great commission. Crossroads was growing\nin number, and numbers became VERY important (some would say all-important).\n\tA person who \"was evangelistic\" was \"spiritual\". Evangelism meant\ninviting people to Crossroads events; if you did this a lot and some of them\nconverted, then you were \"spiritual\". There were sermons about how if you\nbought groceries, the cashier and bag boy ought to receive invitations to\nservices. Everyone at your job ought to receive invitations. Since these\npeople needed Jesus, you should be \"aggressive\"--don't take 'no' for an\nanswer.\n\tIf you did not evangelize enough, you came to be called \"lazy\" or\n\"unspiritual\".\n\tBy the end of the decade, the Prayer Partner system was integrated \ninto\na structure. The Elders and Ministers were on top (like a big pyramid). Then\nthe group leaders, Bible study leaders, and members. Everyone who came in had\nsomeone placed over them.\n\tIt is at this time, 1978-1980, that the bad press about Crossroads\nbegan to circulate. The problem with rape on the University of Florida campus\nwas tremendous, but Crossroads was considered a bigger and more immediate\nproblem. There were many complaints about the congregation and its \"pushy\"\nevangelistic tactics. Crossroads was considering the other Churches of Christ\nto be \"dead\" churches, which aggravated them; it was aggressively recruiting\nout of the other church groups (denominations), which aggravated THEM.\n\n\tBy this time, Crossroads had grown numerically to the point (1100)\nwhere not only did they believe that they would soon need a new building, but\nalso they were sending out \"planting\" [create a new church] and \n\"reconstructing\"\n[reorganize an existing church] teams to other cities. By this time, the\nCrossroads Movement was underway.\n\tA group was sent to the 30-member Lexington Church of Christ in \nBoston,\nMA. The team was headed up by Kip McKean, who had been converted out of a\nfraternity by Crossroads (in Gainesville). Kip held a still stronger view of\nchurch authority, which he believed was heavily vested in the Evangelist(s),\nand not so much in the Elders. He had been fired in 1977 from the \ncongregation\nthat he had been working at when the elders there found numerous things wrong\nwith his theology, including the practice of what came to be called one-over-\none\nChristianity. [Called this by critics]\n\tIn the first year, half of the 30 people felt that they did not want \nto\nbe a part of the new congregation. They left. But others began coming into\nthe new Boston Church of Christ.\n\tAh, but I'm ahead of myself.\n\tAt Crossroads, the heavy-handed system had begun to take its toll on\nthe members. Many have said that they felt that they were working hard, but\nthey were not achieving the results that were so important. The numbers were\ndropping. From 1978, Crossroads membership declined steadily. The leadership\nbegan to tighten the reigns on the congregation, who was seen as being largely\n\"unproductive\" and \"unfruitful\". The \"fruit\" passages in the NT were \ninterpreted\nas referring to new converts. If you were not bearing fruit, said John 15, \nyou\nwould be cast into the fire! [Boston still teaches this.]\n\tIf you love your neighbor, you'll save his soul (invite him to church\nand convert him). If you're not doing that, you don't love your neighbor.\nAnd if you don't love, you're in danger of backsliding. The logical arguments\ncontinue in this vein.\n\tIn 1985, Chuck Lucas was fired from his job as minister, due to \nrecurring\nsins in his life. These struggles were never revealed to the congregation at\nlarge, although many people outside the congregation had heard about them. \nFor\nby now, there was very little contact (on a friendship level) between most\nCrossroads members and those outside. [If you have contact, your focus should\nbe on converting them. Bring them to a Bible Study.]\n\tChuck's replacement was Joe Woods, who was fully supportive of the\nBoston system. As Boston grew in number, they began to offer 'training' \nsessions\nfor other ministers. Joe went to Boston to be trained and returned to Cross-\nroads ready to emphasize the \"total commitment\" to the church that Boston and\nKip McKean were now emphasizing. Eventually, in Fall of 1987, the Elders at \nCrossroads (now 2 in number--Dick Whitehead and Bill Hogle) made a decision.\nBoston was demanding that all of the other churches in the movement come under\nthe direction of the church in Boston. The Elders refused, citing their \nbelief\nthat each church should be autonomous (something true in all non-Boston \nChurches\nof Christ). Perhaps there was also some degree of offense done here, since\nCrossroads was no longer the 'example' to the rest of the Movement. The group\nnow numbered about 800, while Boston was now larger (in membership).\n\tThe Churches of Christ generally teach that baptism is a necessary\nelement of salvation. At Crossroads, they taught what was called 'Lordship'\nbaptism: you had to understand the commitment involved before you could be\nbaptized. You had to 'count the cost'. At Boston, they took this a step\nfurther. If at some time you became \"unproductive\", then your spirituality\nwas suspect. People would begin to ask you if you REALLY understood what you\nwere getting into. Anyone who said 'no' had their baptism deemed invalid: \nthey\nhadn't counted the cost properly. They still had to be baptized. Others \ncalled\nthis \"rebaptism\", and Crossroads didn't approve of this practice.\n\tWhen Crossroads announced that it would not follow Boston, many of its\nmembers left Crossroads and went to Movement-related ministries, which were\nnow called Discipling Ministries. You were either discipling (evangelizing) \nor\nyou were \"dead\". They also used the nickname \"Movement of God\" for a while.\n\tBy Summer of 1988, Crossroads was withdrawn from the Movement and now\nstood alone. They had few to no allies in the mainstream Churches of Christ,\nand now none in the Movement.\n\n\tBoston, however, continued to chart its course in the direction that\nthey had been following. They sent \"reconstruction teams\" to many cities, \nwhich\nusually meant that they split the church there. They stopped acknowledging \nother\nchurches of Christ as Christians and began to call themselves the \"remnant\".\nThe \"remnant\" of the Jews in the OT are those who are saved by God. It was\nfelt that the \"remnant\" today represents all the Christians. Sometimes they\nwould simply call their Movement \"the church\".\n\tThey usually took the name of the city for their name, implying to the\nother Churches of Christ that Boston did not recognize their existence. Many\ncampuses have now formally forbidden Boston ministries from recruiting there\ndue to the number of complaints. In some cases, it has been documented that\nBoston ministries have lied to University officials in order to continue to \nhave\naccess to the campus. Any resistance that they experience is termed \"perse-\ncution\", which all true Christians are expected to experience. Are you really\na Christian if you're not being persecuted?\n\tThe numbers at Boston peaked at c.3000 in 1989. Since then, they have\nfought to remain steady. I have heard a tape of Kip McKean shouting at the\nleaders for failing to fulfill the Great Commission (their life's purpose) as\nGod commanded them. Their Christianity is highly centered on commands and\nobedience.\n\n\tCrossroads once was called a cult. Boston is now recognized by the\nCult Awareness Network and other national and international groups as a cult,\nunder a formal definition, because of the techniques which they employ. The\nterm \"cult\" is usually differentiated from \"sect\" by the practice of those\ntechniques. The techniques which they employ are recognized by many as being\ntechniques of destructive pursuasion, also used by other Shepherding\nDiscipleship groups. [Robert Jay Lifton, Margaret Thaler Singer, and many\nothers have written about the topic.] These techniques include guilt \nmotivation,\nemotional manipulation, loaded language, the aura of sacred science (a sort\nof mystic element seen in everyday events), and others.\n\n\tI have no particular axe to grind against the Movement. I have numer-\nous friends who are still part of the Movement. I have never had a 'falling\nout' with anyone in the Movement. I disagree with many things which they \nteach.\nI recognize the psychological damage done by being involved in such a system.\nI hold no loyalty to the mainstream Churches of Christ and do not defend their\nmistakes either.\n\tI want to point out, though, that unlike in many other systems which\nare in other ways similar, the Leadership of the Boston Movement are as much\nvictims of the system as the members. We do not have a leader who enjoys\nmanipulating his people. The leaders believe what they teach, and they feel\naccountable for the activites (and spiritual welfare) of the members. When\nmembers do not evangelize to their expectations, for example, the leaders feel\npersonally responsible as well. The leaders are not out for money or power.\nThey want to evangelize the world in their lifetime.\n\n\tI have said too much, but there is much more to say. There are many\nexamples I could give and quotes from other sources (including Boston \nbulletins)\nthat I could include. But this is too long already. You may post this if\nyou so desire.\n\t\t\t\t\t\tFrank D.\n\n\n\n", "\n This idea, that the Reformers somehow were the first to bring the\nBible to the people in their own language, is a myth. Many vernacular\ntranslations of the Bible existed long before the Reformation. The\nVulgate Bible, which is still the official version of the Bible for the\nCatholic Church, was itself a translation in the common (i.e. vulgar ==\nvulgate) tongue of its day, Latin, and had existed for about a millenium\nbefore the Reformation.\n\n It might also be noted that the printing press was not even invented\nuntil the same century as that in which the Reformation occurred.", "I don't think there is really any question about which god the courts\nmean. The request for solemnly swearing, so help you god,\n is always made after a request to pick up the bible in your left hand\nand hold up your right hand. In the courts of NC, at least, it is always\nan old and new testament.", "[continuing with Dr. DeYoung's article-]\n \n SURVEY OF NEW INTERPRETATIONS OF ARSENOKOITAI\n\nD.S. Bailey\n\n D.S. Bailey was perhaps the trailblazer of new assessments of the meaning\nof arsenokoitai. He takes the term in I Cor 6:9 as denoting males who actively\nengage in homosexual acts, in contrast to malakoi (\"effeminate\"), those who\nengage passively in such acts.*4 However, he insists that Paul knew nothing\nof \"inversion as an inherited trait, or an inherent condition due to\npsychological or glandular causes, and consequently regards all homosexual\npractice as evidence of perversion\" (38). Hence Bailey limits the term's\nreference in Paul's works to acts alone and laments modern translations of the\nterm as \"homosexuals.\" Bailey wants to distinguish between \"the homosexual\n*condition* (which is morally neutral) and homosexual *practices*\" [italics in\nsource]. Paul is precise in his terminology and Moffatt's translation\n\"sodomites\" best represents Paul's meaning in Bailey's judgment (39). Bailey\nclearly denies that the homosexual condition was known by biblical writers.\n\nJ. Boswell\n\n The most influential study of arsenokoitai among contemporary authors is\nthat of John Boswell.*5 Whereas the usual translation*6 of this term gives\nit either explicitly or implicitly an active sense, Boswell gives it a passive\nsense.\n\n In an extended discussion of the term (341-53), he cites \"linguistic\nevidence and common sense\" to support his conclusion that the word means \"male\nsexual agents, i.e. active male prostitutes.\" His argument is that the arseno-\npart of the word is adjectival, not the object of the koitai which refers to\nbase sexual activity. Hence the term, according to Boswell, designates a male\nsexual person or male prostitute. He acknowledges, however, that most\ninterpret the composite term as active, meaning \"those who sleep with, make\ntheir bed with, men.\" Boswell bases his interpretation on linguistics and the\nhistorical setting. He argues that in some compounds, such as paidomathes\n(\"child learner\"), the paido- is the subject of manthano, and in others, such\nas paidoporos (\"through which a child passes\"), the paido- is neither subject\nnor object but simply a modifier without verbal significance. His point is\nthat each compound must be individually analyzed for its meaning. More\ndirectly, he maintains that compounds with the Attic form arreno- employ it\nobjectively while those with the Hellenistic arseno- use it as an adjective\n(343). Yet he admits exceptions to this distinction regarding arreno-.\n\n Boswell next appeals to the Latin of the time, namely drauci or exoleti. \nThese were male prostitutes having men or women as their objects. The Greek\narsenokoitai is the equivalent of the Latin drauci; the corresponding passive\nwould be parakoitai (\"one who lies beside\"), Boswell affirms. He claims that\narsenokoitai was the \"most explicit word available to Paul for a male\nprostitute,\" since by Paul's time the Attic words pornos (\"fornicator\") and\nporneuon (\"one committing fornication\"), found also in the LXX, had been\nadopted \"to refer to men who resorted to female prostitutes or simply committed\nfornication.\"*7\n\n In the absence of the term from pagan writers such as Herodotus, Plato,\nAristotle, and Plutarch, and from the Jewish writers Philo and Josephus,\nBoswell finds even more convincing evidence for his affirmation that\narsenokoitai \"did not connote 'homosexual' or even 'sodomite' in the time of\nPaul\" (346).*8 He also demonstrates its absence in Pseudo-Lucian, Sextus\nEmpiricus, and Libanius. He subsequently finds it lacking in \"all discussions\nof homosexual relation\" (346)*9 among Christian sources in Greek, including\nthe Didache, Tatian, Justin Martyr, Eusebius,*10 Clement of Alexandria,\nGregory of Nyssa, and John Chrysostom. Chrysostom is singled out for his\nomission as \"final proof\" that the word could not mean homosexuality.*11 \n\n Boswell next appeals to the omission of the texts of I Cor and I Tim from\ndiscussions of homosexuality among Latin church fathers (348).*12 Cited are\nTertullian, Arnobius, Lactantius, and Augustine. The last named uses\n\"circumlocutions.\" Other Latin writers include Ausonius, Cyprian, and Minucius\nFelix. The term is also lacking in state and in church legislation. By the\nsixth century the term became confused and was applied to a variety of sexual\nactivities from child molesting to anal intercourse between a husband and wife\n(353).\n\n Having surveyed the sources, Boswell concludes, \n\n There is no reason to believe that either arsenokoitai or malakoi connoted\n homosexuality in the time of Paul or for centuries thereafter, and every\nreason\n to suppose that, whatever they came to mean, they were not determinative of\n Christian opinion on the morality of homosexual acts (353).\n\nIt is clear throughout that Boswell defines arsenokoitai to refer to male\nprostitutes. He even goes so far as to conclude that Paul would probably not\ndisapprove of \"gay inclination,\" \"gay relationships,\" \"enduring love between\npersons of the same gender,\" or \"same-sex eroticism\" (112, 166-17).\n\n\n________________________________________________________\n4. D.S. Bailey, Homosexuality and the Western Christian Tradition. (London:\n1975) 38.\n5. J. Boswell, Christianity, Social Tolerance and Homosexuality (Chicago:\n1980).\n6. Several tranlation of I Tim 1:10 are: KJV, \"them that defile themselves\nwith mankind\"; ASV, \"Abusers of themselves with men\"; NASB, \"homosexuals\";\nRSV, NKJV, NRSV, \"sodomites\"; NEB, NIV, \"perverts\"; GNB, \"sexual perverts\"; In\nI COr 6:9 these occur: KJV, \"abusers of themselves with mankind\"; ASV,\n\"Abusers of themselves with men\"; NASB, RSV, \"homosexuals\"; NKJV, \"sodomites\";\n NEB, \"homosexual persversion.\" The RSV and NEB derive their translation from\ntwo Greek words, malakoi and arsenokoitai which GBN has as \"homosexual\nperverts.\" NRSV has the two words as \"male prostitutes\" in the text, and\n\"sodomites\" in the footnote. The active idea predominates among the\ncommentators as well; it is the primary assumption.\n7. Boswell, Christianity 344. Yet this was no a word \"available to Paul for a\nmale prostitute,\" for it does not occur at all in any literature prior to Paul\n(as a serach in the Thesaurus Linguae Graecae using IBYCUC confirms). If Paul\ncoined the term, it would have no prior history, and all such discussion about\nits lack of usage in contemporary non-Christian and Christian literature is\nmeaningless.\n8. Again this would be expected if Paul coined the word.\n9. The key phrase here apparently is \"discussoin,\" for Boswell admits later\n(350 n.42) that it occurs in quotes of Paul but there is no discussion in the\ncontext. Hence the implication is that we cannot tell what these writer\n(Polycarp \"To the Philippian 5:3\"; Theophilus \"Ad Autolycum 1.2, 2.14\";Nilus\n\"Epistularum libri quattuor 2.282\"; Cyril of Alexandria \"Homiliae diversae\n14\"; \"Sybilline Oravle 2.13\") meant. Yet Polycarp, who was a disiple of Hohn\nthe Apostle and died about A.D. 155, argues in the context that young men\nshould be pure. He uses only the three terms pornoi, malakoi, and arsenokoitai\nfrom Paul's list. This at least makes Boswell's use of \"all\" subjective. \nApparently Clement of Alexandria \"Paedogogus 3.11\"; Sromata 3.18\"; also belong\nhere.\n\n10.. Yet Eusebius uses it in \"Demonstraionis evangelicae 1.\"\n11. Either Boswell is misrepresenting the facts about Chrysostom's use of\narsenokoitai and its form (about 20) in the vice lists of I Cor 6 or I Tim 1,\nor he is begging the question by denying that the word can mean homosexual when\nChrysostom uses it. Yet the meaning of arsenokoitai is the goal of his and our\nstudy, whether in the lists or other discussions. Boswell later admits (351)\nthat Chrysostom uses the almost identicl form arsenokoitos in his commentary on\nI Cor. Although Boswell suggests that the passage is strange, it may be that\nPaul is seeking to make a refinement in arsenokoitai. \n12. Apparently Jerome is a significant omission here, since he renders\narsenokoitai as \"masculorum concubitores,\" corresponding \"almost exactly to the\nGreek\" (348 n.36).\n\nfootnotes:\n_______________________\n 5. D.S. Bailey, Homosexuality and the Western Christian Tradition. (London:\n1975) 38.\n 6. J. Boswell, Christianity, Social Tolerance and Homosexuality (Chicago:\n1980).\n Several tranlation of I Tim 1:10 are: KJV, \"them that defile themselves\nwith mankind\"; ASV, \"Abusers of themselves with men\"; NASB, \"homosexuals\";\nRSV, NKJV, NRSV, \"sodomites\"; NEB, NIV, \"perverts\"; GNB, \"sexual perverts\"; In\nI COr 6:9 these occur: KJV, \"abusers of themselves with mankind\"; ASV,\n\"Abusers of themselves with men\"; NASB, RSV, \"homosexuals\"; NKJV, \"sodomites\";\n NEB, \"homosexual persversion.\" The RSV and NEB derive their translation from\ntwo Greek words, malakoi and arsenokoitai which GBN has as \"homosexual\nperverts.\" NRSV has the two words as \"male prostitutes\" in the text, and\n\"sodomites\" in the footnote. The active idea predominates among the\ncommentators as well; it is the primary assumption.\n 7. Boswell, Christianity 344. Yet this was no a word \"available to Paul for\na male prostitute,\" for it does not occur at all in any literature prior to\nPaul (as a serach in the Thesaurus Linguae Graecae using IBYCUC confirms). If\nPaul coined the term, it would have no prior history, and all such discussion\nabout its lack of usage in contemporary non-Christian and Christian literature\nis meaningless.\n 8. Again this would be expected if Paul coined the word.\n 9. The key phrase here apparently is \"discussoin,\" for Boswell admits later\n(350 n.42) that it occurs in quotes of Paul but there is no discussion in the\ncontext. Hence the implication is that we cannot tell what these writer\n(Polycarp \"To the Philippian 5:3\"; Theophilus \"Ad Autolycum 1.2, 2.14\";Nilus\n\"Epistularum libri quattuor 2.282\"; Cyril of Alexandria \"Homiliae diversae\n14\"; \"Sybilline Oravle 2.13\") meant. Yet Polycarp, who was a disiple of Hohn\nthe Apostle and died about A.D. 155, argues in the context that young men\nshould be pure. He uses only the three terms pornoi, malakoi, and arsenokoitai\nfrom Paul's list. This at least makes Boswell's use of \"all\" subjective. \nApparently Clement of Alexandria \"Paedogogus 3.11\"; Sromata 3.18\"; also belong\nhere.", "\nThis is not at all comparable. Christianity is the main stream in\nwestern culture. You are trivializing the experiences of others.\n\nI remember what it was like being \"different\" as a Christian. We\nwere told all the time that we were different, and in fact that\nonly members of the our church were really Christians (though others\nwho believed in God weren't as bad as atheists), so we were a small\nminority. That was nothing compared to being an atheist.\n\nThe only thing comparable would be a young child being Christian\nbeing surrounded by staunch atheists, including parents, who\nactively persecute any religious tendancies - both actual punishments\nand, even worse, emotional blackmail. They would also have\nto have the whole mainstream society on their side. Maybe these\nconditions could have occured in the old Soviet Union* not in a\ncountry with \"under God\" in its pledge of allegiance.\n\n* I doubt it even then, because children have to be taught to be\nChristians and hence must have support somewhere.\n\n\nYes. My atheism was \"born of necessity.\" For an intellectually honest\nperson belief is mostly a response to evidence. Will or wishes have\nnothing to do with it. I could choose to lie, or to be silent about\nmy true beliefs. I could no more choose to believe in the God of\nChristianity than I could decide that the ordinary sky looks red to\nme. Still I should be clear that I'm not equating what I went through\nwith what gays go through. However it is a mistake to assume that\neveryone who goes through painful experiences are broken by them.\nHappily some are made stronger, once we get past it.\n\n\nNot without going to details and violating the confidences of some of my\nchildhood friends. Suffice it say to that religion does not guarantee\nthat a person will be happy and strong emotionally, and a repressive\nupbringing can leave its scars even, or especially, on those who don't\nget free of it. I doubt that any sane and sincere person doubts that and\nI feel no need to defend it.\n\nBy the way I am much happier and stronger being out of the closet. In\nthe end it has been, as someone eloquently put it in private email, an\nexperience of liberation rather than disillusion.", " \n \nI see, it is not rational, but it is intellectual. Does madness qualify\nas intellectual engagement, too?\n \n \n \nExactly why science uses mathematics. QM representation in natural language\nis not supposed to replace the elaborate representation in mathematical\nterminology. Nor is it supposed to be the truth, as opposed to the\nrepresentation of gods or religions in ordinary language. Admittedly,\nnot every religion says so, but a fancy side effect of their inept\nrepresentations are the eternal hassles between religions.\n \nAnd QM allows for making experiments that will lead to results that will\nbe agreed upon as being similar. Show me something similar in religion.\n \n \n \nWith the effect that the models presented are useless. And one can argue\nthat the other way around, namely that the only reason metaphysics still\nflourish is because it makes no statements that can be verified or falsified -\nshowing that it is bogus.\n \n ", "Being a parent in need of some help, I ask that you bear with me while I\ndescribe the situation which plagues me...\n\nI am a divorced father. Chance would have it that \"my weekend\" with my \ndaughter has fallen upon Easter Weekend this year.\n\nAlthough I am Presbyterian, I had married a Catholic woman. We decided\nthat the Catholic moray of indoctrination of the spouse into the faith\nwas too confining (and restrictive due to time as we had already set a\ndate), and we were married in a Christian Church which was non-denominational.\n\nDuring the years of our marriage, we did not often attend church. \n\nWhen our daughter was born, some years later, my wife insisted that she \nbe baptised as Catholic. This wasn't a problem with me.\n\nDuring a separation of five years, my ex-wife was taken ill with a disease\nthat affected her mental capacities. She was confined to a mental ward for\ntwo months before it was diagnosed. It has since been treated \"effectively\".\n\nIn other words, professionals have deemed her a functioning member of society.\n\nDuring the recuperation, my ex-wife has embraced Buddism. Her influence over\nmy daughter has been substantial, and has primarily allowed me only Saturday\nvisitation for a number of years. During this period I have read Bible study\nbooks to my daughter, and tried to keep her aware of her Christian heritage.\n\nLast fall, our divorce was finalized after a year of viscious divorce hearings.\nAt that time I was awarded visitation rights every other weekend. At that time,\nI started taking my daughter to church quite often, although not every weekend.\nI did this to attempt to strengthen the Christian ethic and expose her to a\nreligious community.\n\nToday, Easter Sunday, I took my daughter to church. When it came time for \nCommunion, my daughter took the bread (The body of Christ) but left the wine\n(The blood of Christ) professing that she was too young for wine. She then\nballed the bread up in her hand and tried to descretely throw it under the\npew in front of us.\n\nI feel this was a slap in the face to me, my religion, and an afront to her\nreligious heritage. It can be construed as breaking several of the commandments\nif you try. I really felt dishonored by the action.\n\nMy daughter is only nine years old, but I think she should have been old and\nmature enough to realize her actions. I have difficulty blaming her directly\nfor religious teachings her mother swears to, but when I discussed this with\nmy daughter she made it clear she believed in Buddhism and not Christianity.\n\nMy initial response of anger (moderated) was to suggest if there is no faith\nin Christ then why does she celebrate Easter, or Christmas? I suggested I\nwould never force her to practice my religious beliefs by celebrating holidays\nwith her again.\n\nI do not want to \"drive her from the fold\", and would be willing to allow her\nto continue practicing Buddhism (as though I had a choice seeing her only\nfor two days out of fourteen) but I want her to want to embrace Christianity.\n\nAny suggestions?\n\nIf you have a response, please e-mail me a copy. (I'm not a regular reader\nof this newsgroup.) (Naturally, feel free to post too!)\n\nThanks, and I hope you've had a happy Easter.\n\nDrew\n", "davem@bnr.ca (Dave Mielke) writes,\n\n \n \nI am extremely uncomfortable with this way of phrasing it. God's love \nis unconditional, unqualified, unfathomable. We are capable of \nrejecting God's love but He never fails to love us.\n\nThese verses do not show that God's love is qualified but rather that He \nis opposed to evil.\n\nI am uncomfortable with the tract in general because there seems to be \nan innappropriate emphasis on Hell. God deserves our love and worship \nbecause of who He is. I do not like the idea of frightening people into \naccepting Christ. \n\nI see evangelism as combining a way of living that shows God's love with \nputting into words and explaining that love. Preaching the Gospel \nwithout living the Gospel is no better than being a noisy gong or a \nclanging cymbal.\n\nHere's a question: How many of you are Christians because you are \nafraid of going to Hell? How many are responding to God's love?", "\n\n\n\nExcuse me a moment when I laugh my head off... I defy you to prove\nyour statement \"damaged and screwed up\". You can't? Oh dear. Your\nargument, once again, Mr Logic(NOT!), falls flat on its face.\n\nTake a course in civil behaviour and logic. Then come back and defend\nyour arguments.\n\n", "\nOf course if this question was asked in a group dealing with economics,\nthe answer would be that the cause of war was economic. My observations\nover the past 30 years (and not withstanding a little history reading\nbeside) is that while religious differences do play a part in many of\nthe conflicts, so does (unfortunately) race, economics and any other\nitems that identify one group of men as being different from another.\n\nIf we want to couch the cause of conflict in Christian terms, I would\nput it while Christ died for our sins, we are yet sinners. While some\nindividuals assume \"Christlike\" natures, most of us do not even\ncome close.\n\nI realize that in many ways this is a trite answer, but I guess that\nit is my way of rationalizing man's constant (or so it seems)\nconflict.\n\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------", ": Lets talk about principles. If we accept that God sets the\n: standards for what ought to be included in Scripture - then we\n: can ask:\n: 1. Is it authoritative?\n\n\"Authoritative\" is not a quality of the writing itself- it is a statement\nby the community of faith whether it will accept the writing as normative.\n\n: 2. Is it prophetic?\n\nHow is \"prophecy\" to be defined? If it is \"speaking forth\" of God's message,\nmuch of the apocrypha must surely qualify.\n\n: 3. Is it authentic?\n\nAgain, by what standard? Is \"authenticity\" a function of the authors? the\nhistorical accuracy? \n\n: 4. Is it dynamic?\n\nWhat is this supposed to mean? Many of the apocryphal books are highly\n\"dynamic\" -thought provoking, faithful, even exciting.\n\n: 5. Is it received, collected, read and used?\n\nBy whom? Of course the apocryphal books were received (by some),\ncollected (or else we would not have them), read and used (and they still are,\nin the Catholic and Orthodox churches).\n\n: On these counts, the apocrapha falls short of the glory of God.\n\nThis is demonstrably false.\n\n: To quote Unger's Bible Dictionary on the Apocrapha:\n: 1. They abound in historical and geographical inaccuracies and\n: anachronisms.\n\nSo do other books of the Bible.\n\n: 2. They teach doctrines which are false and foster practices\n: which are at variance with sacred Scripture.\n\n\"False\" by whose interpretation? Those churches that accept them find no\ncontradiction with the rest of scripture. \n\n: 3. They resort to literary types and display an artificiality of\n: subject matter and styling out of keeping with sacred Scripture.\n\nThis is a purely subjective evaluation. The apocryphal books demonstrate\nthe same categories and forms of writing found in the other scriptures.\n(In fact, one could argue that the apocryphal \"Additions to the Book of\nEsther\" act rather to bring the \"unscripturelike\" book of Esther more into\nline with other books.)\n\n: 4. They lack the distinctive elements which give genuine\n: Scripture their divine character, such as prophetic power and\n: poetic and religious feeling.\n\nHave you ever read the Wisdom of Ben Sira or the Wisdom of Solomon? They\nexhibit every bit as much \"poetic and religious feeling\" as Psalms or\nProverbs.\n\n[deletions]\n\n: How do you then view the words: \"I warn everyone who hears the\n: words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to\n: them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.\n: And if anyone takes away from this book the prophecy, God will\n: take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the\n: holy city\" (Rev 22.18-9)\n: Surely this sets the standard and not just man-made traditions.\n\nThese words clearly were meant to refer to the book of Revelation alone,\nnot to the whole body of scripture. Revelation itself was accepted very\nlate into the canon. The church simply did not see it as having a primary\nrole of any kind in identifying and limiting scripture.\n\n: It is also noteworthy to consider Jesus' attitude. He had no\n: argument with the pharisees over any of the OT canon (John\n: 10.31-6), and explained to his followers on the road to Emmaus \n: that in the law, prophets and psalms which referred to him - the \n: OT division of Scripture (Luke 24.44), as well as in Luke 11.51\n: taking Genesis to Chronicles (the jewish order - we would say\n: Genesis to Malachi) as Scripture.\n\nJesus does not refer to the canon for the simple reason that in his day,\nthe canon had not been established as a closed collection. The books\nof the apocrypha were part of the Septuagint (which was the Bible of\nthe early church). The Hebrew canon was not closed until 90 c.e.\nThe Torah (Pentateuch/ \"Law\") was established in Jesus' day, as were\nthe Prophets (with the _exclusion_ of Daniel). The Writings, however,\nwere still in flux. Jesus does not refer to the Writings, only to the\nPsalms, which were part of them. The books of the apocrypha were all\npart of the literature that was eventually sifted and separated.\n\nTo argue that Jesus is referring to the Jewish canonical order in Luke 11:51\nis weak at best; he is not quoting scripture, but telling a chronological\nstory. And, as mentioned above, the Hebrew canon (especially in the\npresent order) did not exist as such in Jesus' day.", " \n(Deletion)\n \nIt has. There is a guy running around in Switzerland who claims to have\nbeen conceived similarly. His mother says the same. His father is said to\nbe a bit surprised.\n \nBut anyway, there have been a lot of Messiahs, and many have had a similar\nstory about their birth. Or their death. A list of Messiahs could be quite\ninteresting.\n \n \n \nI would wonder why an omnipotent god pulls such stunts instead of providing\nevidence for everyone to check. And the whole question is absurd.\n \nWouldn't you feel bad if you'd find out that stones are sentient, and that\nyou have stepped on them all your life? And wouldn't you feel bad when you'd\nsee the proof that Jesus was just a plot of Satan?\n \n \n \nYou've forgotten the pride factor.\n \n \n \nThe argument is a fallacy. It is like \"thanks for reading this far\" on the end\nof a letter. Most religions claim that they won't fizzle because they contain\nsome eternal truth. So does Christianity. Since there are old religions it is\nno wonder to find old religions that have it that they would last.", "\nLike we have never heard of, or read these verses before?\n\nHow about you read them in context, taking into consideration the times and \nplaces in which they were written; the local customs and pagan rituals; \nwhat the surrounding verses are talking about and how they interact with \nthe rest of the Bible.\n\nThere are many issues in the Bible that are argued, and can be argued \nsuccessfullly from both sides of an issue. Some examples that come to mind\nare \n\t\tGifts of the Spirit\n\t\twhen the Rapture will occur(pre or post tribulation)\n\t\thow people should be baptized\nto name a few.\n\nI have found nothing in scripture that condemns me, or anyone else, for having\na monogamous relationship with the person whom I love, even if we are the\nsame sex.\n\nI'm sorry if I am coming across as heated. It's just that the Lord has been\nso dear to me the last several years and I'm tired of hearing this same old\nthing from people who believe what their told rather than finding out for \nthemselves.\n\nCheck it out for yourself. Invite the Holy Spirit to guide you. If I weren't\nconfident of this I wouldn't invite you to do this.", "It's like refusing 'God's kingdom come'.\n\nIn one of Jesus' revelation in this century, \"...same thing as in\nthe old days. People refuse to believe my messengers. Even when\nI was alive here on earth, they refuse Me. What more when I am just\ntalking through somebody else?\" (paraphrased).\n\nWith all the knowledge believers accumulated, He would think that\nwe would be 'enlightened' enough to detect which ones are \n'authentic and divine' as opposed to 'evil or man-made'.\n\nThese signs, these miracles, are you afraid that they are not from God?\nThat these are the signs we should not open our hearts and mind to for thinking\n they are evil?\nWell, is faith in God evil?\nIs true peace evil? Is true love that is divine and pure evil? \nWhy can't someone accept that God can do what He wants in fulfillment of His\n generous love and Jesus' never ending forgiveness to those who turn back to\n Him for salvation?\nWhy are we refusing God's messenger of this truth? The mother to all who are\n in Christ?\nWhat brings us these:\n fears of being shamed by what others will think or say about us?\n which, in contrary, could be pleasing to God?\n fears of being humbled?\n fears of being judged as wrong (wrt mainstream standard of what is right)?\nWhy can't we tolerate non-believers' mockery or ridicule of us for the\n sake of peace, love and obedience to God? The humbling lessons left to us\n by martyrs and saints?\nWe'd rather engage in never-ending bickering and disproof of each other's\n opinion - looking at each other's mistakes - for the sake of arguments,\n instead of having communion in one body with Christ.\nWhat makes us go blind to the truth that God is All Powerful and that He can\n not be binded by what people wrote and have written about Him in all ages?\nWhy is our faith in God limited? By all the words and literature we muster?\nWhat prevents us from going *beyond* being saved and extend God's rich love\n to others who are not?\n\nWhy are our eyes not wide open to see that He continuously sees our faith, hope\n and love which glorify Him and so He gives us indications of His \n acknowledgements with signs/miracles (ordinary/common or divinely inspired) \n everywhere? Isn't that like an atheist/agnostic's view that all these\n are just ordinary here on earth and not caused by anything supernatural?\n\nWhy then does the Holy Mother comes back to remind us:\n \"We must really __accept that prayer__ changes the course of things and that\n with prayers __even wars can be prevented__.\"\nbut then she continues:\n \"You often have an egotistic attitude. Dear children, in these days you\n have prayed very much, __but your hands have remained empty__.\"\nWhy hesitate in proclaiming what needs to be done:\n \"prayer, conversion, peace, penance, fasting, the Holy Mass, living life\n as what the Gospel brings.\"?\nWhy not do so? How? To the world?\n \"Start in your family. Be a good example. Live the Word.\"\nWhy worry if it is going to be of good use to many?\n \"The fruits, __leave them to the Lord__, do not worry about anything or \n anyone but entrust yourself to the Lord.\"\n\nAlthough the Holy Mother does not insist because:\n \"You are free; I bow before the freedom which God gives you.\"\nbut she follows this with:\n \"You are surprised because I say to you: Decide for God and yet, see how\n you have lived this day.\"\nWhy does she constantly conveys:\n \"Take this life toward God in the way as to __experience__ the Lord Himself\n in your __behavior__ and __not only__ when you pray\" or one time when we \n decide that we are saved, or talk/write about God, etc.\nThe Holy Mother warns:\n \"Satan (the serpent) is always trying to dissuade you to turn you away from\n my peace plan and prayer.\" (Rev 12:17, the dragon became angry with the woman\n and went off to wage war against the rest of her offsprings, those who keep\n God's commandments, and bear witness to Jesus.)\n\nDo you have fear or hate for God's current messenger of true peace, love and\n our motherly protector from the anti-Christ?\nThe one who is being apprehensive of communism, wars, famine and other evils\n that the serpent brings upon us? \nThis obedient and blessed new Eve?\nThe mother who warns us so we can be prepared and be strong against Satan?\nHaven't there been renewed faith, hope, love, peace and obedience wherever\n this messenger has shared her blessings and graces that God has given her\n in good purpose?\nWhy do we choose to be blind?\nWhy fear the truth that God has been giving us a chance and sharing Christ's\n ever-forgetting forgiveness to us through the obedient mother?\nThe mother who has been consecrated the task __to reverse__ the disobedient\n harm and example done by the ancient Eve.\nShe has been preparing the new Eden with her Immaculate Heart.\nThe new Eden as sanctuary (the womb) for the next coming and judgement of the \n righteous by our Lord, Jesus Christ; when The Lamb marries His bride.\nShouldn't we give her a hand in her exhaustive job of preparing us for the\n second coming of her Son as she has been conceived without sin to bear\n the Son of God in her womb?\nWhy fear true peace, love and renewed faith and obedience to God that Mary\n faithfully brings to God's children? She has been protecting the flock\n (the rest of the offsprings) from the greedy dragon so as to present more \n righteous members for her Son's coming.\nNot all apparitions and miracles that resulted from them are worthy\n of belief. With prayer and guidance from the Holy Spirit and, of course,\n approval of our Church authorities, we should be aware of the true and\n divinely inspired ones; specifically, the ones which aligns with the\n Scripture.\n \n\nAlso, our Lady reminds us of recommendation of __silence__ in our prayers:\n \"If you speak unceasingly in your prayers, how will you be able to hear\n God? Allow Him room to answer you, to speak to you.\" \n\nShe encourages us (with motherly nurturing) to continue in exuberant \nfaith, hope and love to Jesus, constantly. NOT with mere emotions, \nbut with deep, constant obedience to Jesus, her Beloved Son and\nacknowledgement of our need to have Him as part of our lives.\n\nLet's not wait to the last minute to renew our faith and the life\nthat God wants us to live; when there won't be enough time or when\nit will be late.\n \nNowadays, Mary says, \n\"Pray, pray, pray for peace...reconciliation, my children.\"\nHave peace within yourself first before you can promote peace to\nothers. For without peace, you can not fully accept my Son.\"\n \n\nAnd you think she's just an ordinary lady. Not to me. She's\nour good Mother/messenger from God and she is so nice enough to\nshare God's kingdom to us through her Son and experience it.\n\nWith Mary, we are assured that The Lamb always succeeds.\n\n-----\nNote: All enclosed in quotes are from \"Latest News of Medjugorje\"\n Number 10, June, 1991 by Fr. Rene' Laurentin.\n\n-----", "\nBrian, does all this mean that you have to be well versed in ancient\nGreek, Hebrew and Aramaic in order to understand the core of\nChristianity? I hope you are not Catholic, because my Christian\nupbringing was based on the teachings of Luther, and the one of\nthe core messages was basically that you don't need to know latin\nin order to learn about salvation.\n\nBTW, your statement would also eliminate about 99.5% of all the Christians\nin the world, as well.\n\nCheers,\nKent", "\nProbably we would have much the same problems with only a slight shift in\nemphasis. Weekends might not be so inviolate (more common to work 7 days\na week in a business), and instead of American Atheists, we would have\nsimilar, religious organizations. A persons religious belief seems more\nas a crutch and justification for actions than a guide to determine actions.\nOf course, people would have to come up with more fascinating \nrationalizations for their actions, but that could be fun to watch...\n\nIt seems to me, that for most people, religion in America doesn't matter\nthat much. You have extreemists on both ends, but a large majority don't\nmake too much of an issue about it as long as you don't. Now, admittedly,\nI have never had to suffer the \"Bible Belt\", but I am just north of it\nand see the fringes, and the reasonable people in most things tend to be\nreasonable in religion as well. \n\n\n\nI don't bother according a higher value to my thinking, or just about\nanybodys thinking. I don't want to fall in that trap. Because if you \ndo start that, then you are then to decide which is better, says whom,\nwhy, is there a best, and also what to do about those who have inferior\nmodes of thinking. IDIC (Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.)\nI'll argue it over a soda, but not over much more.\n\nJust my $.12 (What inflation has done...)", "\n\nThis is misleading, at best. The question, really, has to do with the\nstatus of the Greek Septuagint versus Hebrew scripture. And the issue\npredates the Reformation by quite a bit -- Jerome was negative about the\n\"deuteroncanonicals\" and in fact, even though he transalted them, he put\nthem after the Hebrew canon (reordered from the Greek ordering to the\nHebrew one.) His translations of them were quick-and-dirty, also (he\nreports having done one of them in one day, and another overnight, just\ndictating his translation to an amanuensis.\n\nThat is to say, it is the Vulgate, and all of its massive importance in\nWestern Christianity, along with the veneration of Jerome, which took the\nfirst steps in \"reducing\" these books from the status they had (and have)\namong the Greeks.\n\nFurthermore, it is inaccurate to say that the Reformers \"threw out\" these\nbooks. Basically, they just placed them in a secondary status (as Jerome\nhad already done), but with the additional warning that doctrine should\nnot be based on citations from these ALONE.\n\nI think that the emphasis on the Hebrew originals is sound, though it\nseems somewhat arbitrary to disallow on the face of it a translation as\npart of a collection whose principles of selection (in Hebrew or Greek)\nare confused or unknown and likely fraught with accident. It also seems\nto play into a tendentious notion of the original languages being somehow\n\"more inspired\" -- as if magical, and conveying a message untranslatable\n-- than a translation, as if we could not hear God's word to the Jews in\nGreek (or German, or English, ...). This tendency seems to have got a\nbig boost in _sola scriptura_ Protestantism, even to the point of current\n\"inerrancy\" bizarreness, despite the more basic, underlying tendency of\nthe Reformers to see that the texts SHOULD and COULD be translated. If\nwe can profit from an English rendering of Hebrew and Greek, there is\nsurely little reason to keep Sirach, at least, out of our Bibles (and of\ncourse, Anglicans don't do so :-)). For texts originally in Greek, it\nwould seem more to be anti-Greek prejudice (notably, by the time the\nHebrew canon is fully attested, including anti-Christian prejudice which\nled to the Jewish abandonment of the Septuagint) which is operative.\n\nBTW: readers may enjoy some lectures of Bruce Metzger on the issues of\ntranslation of the Bible (including some of what I said about Jerome,\nabove) in the current numbers of the journal _Bibliotheca Sacra_; two\nof four have been published so far.", "\nOne book I have which presents a fairly unbiased account of many religions\nis called _Man's Religions_ by John B. Noss. It was a textbook in a class\nI had on comparative religion or some such thing. It has some decent\nbibliographies on each chapter as a jumping off point for further reading.\n\nIt doesn't \"compare\" religions directly but describes each one individually\nand notes a few similarities. But nothing I have read in it could be even\nremotely described as preachy or Christian based. In fact, Christianity\nmercifully consumes only 90 or so of its nearly 600 pages. The book is\ndivided according to major regions of the world where the biggies began \n(India, East Asia, Near East). There is nothing about New World religions\nfrom the Aztecs, Mayas, Incas, etc. Just the stuff people kill each\nother over nowadays. And a few of the older religions snuffed out along\nthe way. ", "\nWell, I could use the argument that some here use about \"nature\" and claim\nthat you cannot have superhuman powers because you are a human; superhuman\npowers are beyond what a human has, and since you are a human, any powers\nyou have are not beyond those of a human. Hence, you cannot have superhuman\npowers. Sound good to you?\n\nAnyway, to the evidence question: it depends on the context. In this group,\nsince you are posting from a american college site, I'm willing to take it\nas given that you have a pair of blue jeans. And, assuming there is some\ncoherency in your position, I will take it as a given that you do not have\nsuperhuman powers. Arguments are evidence in themselves, in some respects.\n\n\nYep.\n\n\nGood.\n\n\n\"Extra\" evidence? Why don't we start with evidence at all?\n\nI cannot see any evidence for the V. B. which the cynics in this group would\never accept. As for the second, it is the foundation of the religion.\nAnyone who claims to have seen the risen Jesus (back in the 40 day period)\nis a believer, and therefore is discounted by those in this group; since\nthese are all ancients anyway, one again to choose to dismiss the whole\nthing. The third is as much a metaphysical relationship as anything else--\neven those who agree to it have argued at length over what it *means*, so\nagain I don't see how evidence is possible.\n\nI thus interpret the \"extraordinary claims\" claim as a statement that the\nspeaker will not accept *any* evidence on the matter.", "Where in the Bible is there *any* teaching about an immaterial afterlife?\nI was always taught that both the O.T. Jews and the N.T. Christians would\nhave found the notion incomprehensible--as do I.\n\nDon't we christians believe in the resurrection of the body?\n\nOr do you mean by material simply the stuff made of the 100+ elements\nthat we know and love too much?\n", "This week, many of you have asked about my earlier postings on OT, NT and\nIntertestiment exegesis on the homosexual issue. I have refered you to the FAQ\nfiles, which I find out, no longer contains them. They are too long for me to\nmail to each of you, each article, but will try to get them back on the FAQ\nfile. \n\nBecause of the renewed interest on this subject, I will type, with permission,\nan article by James DeYoung. I think it is one of the best articles that I've\nread todate from the conservative position. I can't post it all at once, so it\nwill come piece meal and not daily. After I'm done retyping the entire\narticle, I will make it available for the FAQ file. Talk to clh.\n\nAlso, for those who can't get through to me, you may try one of these:\nREXLEX@FNAL.FNAL.GOV \nLEXREX@ALMOND.FNAL.GOV\nLoren Senders@ADMAIL.FNAL.GOV\n\n THE SOURCE AND NT MEANING\n OF ARSENOKOITAI, WITH IMPLICATIONS\n FOR CHRISTIAN ETHICS AND MINISTRY\n\n\n James B. DeYoung\n Professor of New Testament\n Western Conservative Baptist Seminary\n Portland, Oregon\n\n Traditional interpretation of arsenokoitai (\"homosexuals\") in 1 Cor 6:9\nand 1 Tim 1:10 refers to sexual vice between people of the same sex,\nspecifically homosexualitiy. Some restrict the term's meaning to \"active male\nprostititute,\" but stronger evidence supports a more general translation,\nnamely \"homosexuals.\" More recently the definition \"homosexual\" has been\nopposed on clutural and linguistic grounds, the claim being that the term\n\"homosexuals\" is anachronistic. In addition, criticism of the traditional\nrendering says the term today includes celibate homophiles, excludes\nheterosexuals who engage in homosexual acts, and includes female homosexuals. \nA concern for acts instead of the modern attention to desires was the only\nfactor in the ancient world. The foregoing oppositition to the translation of\narsenokoitai by \"homosexuals\" has a number of debilitating weaknesses. \nFinally, this study argues that Paul coined the term arsenokoitai, deriving it\nfrom the LXX of Lev 20:12 (cf. 18:22) and using it for homosexual orientation\nand behavior, the latter of which should be an occasion for church discipline\n(I Cor 5-6) and legislation in society (1 Tim 1:8-11).\n\n *************************************\n\n INTRODUCTION\n\n Coincident with the rise of the gay rights movement in recent years has\nbeen an increasing focus on the biblical statements regarding homosexuality or\nsodomy. As part of this focus, the meaning of the term arsenokoitai, used\ntwice by the apostle Paul (1 Cor 6:9, I Tim 1:10), has received vigorous\nscrutiny. This issue is particularly crucial to contemporary society since\nso much of modern ethics is shaped by biblical statements. More particularly, \nthe concern over gay rights and the place of gays or homosexuals in the church\nand in society require the resolution of biblical interpretation.\n\n This study of historical, linguistic, and literary matters will survey and\nevalutate recent proposals for the meaning of arsenokoitai and present evidence\nto point to a resolution. Several writers and their positions represent the\nmodern debate on this word. Three authors, Bailey, Boswell, and Scroggs, have\nprovoked considerable discussion and significantly encouraged the wider\nacceptance of the homosexual lifestyle in society, in the church, and in the\nministry. \n", "[With Frank's permission, I have added some information here (and in\none case changed the order of his contributions) in order to clarify\nthe historical relationship of the views. My comments are based\nprimarily on William Rusch's historical summary in \"The Trinitarian\nControversy\", Fortress. I'm going to save this as an FAQ. --clh]\n\nMAJOR VIEWS OF THE TRINITY\n \n[SECOND CENTURY\n\nThe writers of the 2nd Cent. are important, because they set up much\nof the context for the later discussions. Justin Martyr, Aristides,\nAthenagoras, Tatian, and Theophilus of Antioch are known as the\n\"Apologists\". Their theology has often been described as \"Logos\ntheology\". Based strongly on wording in John, they took more or less\na two-phase approach. Through eternity, the Logos was with the\nFather, as his mind or thought. This \"immanent Word\" became\n\"expressed\" as God revealed himself in history, ultimately in Jesus.\nThus Jesus' full distinction from the Father only became visible in\nhistory, though the Logos had been present in God from eternity.\nRusch regards this view is containing many of the emphases of the\nfinal orthodox position, but in a form which is less sophisticated,\nbecause it did not have the technical language to properly deal with\nthe eternal plurality in the Godhead.\n\nIrenaeus held views somewhat similar to the Apologists. However he\nwas uncomfortable with the two-stage approach. He still viewed God as\none personage, with distinctions that did not become fully visible\nexcept through his process of self-revelation (the \"economy\"). The\ndistinctions are present in his essential nature. Irenaeus emphasized\nthe Holy Spirit more than the Apologists. Irenaeus' views should\nprobably be called \"economic trinitarianism\", though that term is\nnormally used (as below) to refer to later developments.\n\n\nTHIRD CENTURY\n\n--clh]\n\nDynamic Monarchianism\n \nSource: Theodotus\nAdherents: Paul of Samosota, Artemon, Socinus, Modern Unitarians\nPerception of God's Essence: The unity of God denotes both oneness of nature\nand oneness of person. The Son and the Holy Spirit therefore are\nconsubstantial with the Father's divine essence only as impersonal attributes.\nThe divine dunamis came upon the man Jesus, but he was not God in the strict\nsense of the word.\nPerception of God's Subsistence: The notion of a subsistent God is a palpable\nimpossibility, since his perfect unity is perfectly indivisible. The\n'diversity' of God is apparent and not real, since the Christ event and the\nwork of the Holy Spirit attest only to a dynamic operation within God, not to\na hypostatic union.\nAsignation of Deity/Eternality:\n Father: Unique originator of the universe. He is eternal, self-existent, and\nwithout beginning or end.\n Son: A virtuous (but finite) man in whose life God was dynamically present in\na unique way; Christ definitely was not deity though his humanity was deified.\n Holy Spirit: An impersonal attribute of the Godhead. No deity or eternality\nis ascribed to the Holy Spirit.\nCriticism(s): Elevates reason above the witness of biblical revelation\nconcerning the Trinity. Categorically denies the deity of Christ and of the\nHoly Spirit, thereby undermining the theological undergirding for the biblical\ndoctrine of salvation.\n[In summary, this probably best thought of as not being Trinitarianism\nat all. God is an undifferentiated one. Son and Holy Spirit are seen\nas simply names for the man Jesus and the grace of God active in the\nChurch. --clh]\n\n \nModalistic Monarchianism\n \nSource: Praxeas\nAdherents: Noatus, Sabellius, Swedenborg, Scleiermacher, United Pentecostals\n(Jesus Only)\nPerception of God's Essence: The unity of God is ultra-simplex. He is\nqualitatively characterized in his essence by one nature and person. This\nessence may be designated interchangeably as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.\nThey are different names for but identical with the unified, simplex God. The\nthree names are the three modes by which God reveals Himself.\nPerception of God's Subsistence: The concept of a subsistent God is erroneous\nand confounds the real issue of the phenomenon of God's modalistic manifesting\nof himself. The paradox of a subsisting \"three in oneness\" is refuted by\nrecognizing that God is not three persons but one person with three different\nnames and corresponding roles following one another like parts of a drama.\nAsignation of Deity/Eternality:\n Father: Fully God and fully eternal as the primal mode or manifestation of\nthe only unique and unitary God\n Son: Full deity/eternality ascribed only in the sense of his being another\nmode of the one God and identical with his essence. he is the same God\nmanifested in temporal sequence specific to a role (incarnation).\n Holy Spirit: Eternal God only as the tile designates the phase in which the\none God, in temporal sequence, manifested himself pursuant to the role of\nregeneration and sanctification.\nCriticism(s): Depersonalizes the Godhead. To compensate for its Trinitarian\ndeficiencies, this view propounds ideas that are clearly heretical. Its\nconcept of successive manifestations of the Godhead cannot account for such\nsimultaneous appearances of the three persons as at Christ's baptism.\n[Rusch comments that evidence on these beliefs is sketchy. There are\nactually two slightly different groups included: Noetus and his\nfollowers, and Sabellius. Noetus was apparently more extreme.\nSabellius followed him, and attempted to use some features of economic\nTrinitarianism to create a more sophisticated view. Unfortunately,\ninformation about Sabellius comes from a century later, and there\nseems to be some confusion between him and Marcellus of Ancyra. --clh]\n \n[I've moved the following description to be with the other\nthird-century views. It originally appeared near the end. --clh]\n\n\"Economic\" Trinitarianism\n \nSource: Hippolytus, Tertullian\nAdherents: Various \"neo-economic\" Trinitarians\nPerception of God's Essence: The Godhead is characterized by triunity: Father,\nSon, and Holy Spirit are the three manifestations of one identical,\nindivisible substance. The perfect unity and consubstantiality are especially\ncomprehended in such manifest Triadic deeds as creation and redemption.\nPerception of God's Subsistence: Subsistence within the Godhead is articulated\nby means of such terms as \"distinction\" and \"distribution\" dispelling\neffectively the notion of separateness or division.\nAsignation of Deity/Eternality:\nThe equal deity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is clearly elucidated in\nobservation of the simultaneous relational/operational features of the\nGodhead. Co-eternality, at times, does not intelligibly surface in this\nambiguous view, but it seems to be a logical implication.\nCriticism(s): Is more tentative and ambiguous in its treatment of the\nrelational aspect of the Trinity.\n[Note that this is a development of the Apologists and Irenaeus, as\nmentioned above. As with them, the threeness is visible primarily in\nthe various ways that God revealed himself in history. However they\ndid say that this is a manifestation of a plurality that is somehow\npresent in the Godhead from the beginning. Tertullian talks of\nthe Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as being three that are one in\nsubstance. Many people regard this view as being essentially\northodox, but with less developed philosophical categories. --clh]\n\n[Origen, developing further an approach started by Clement, attempted\nto apply neo-Platonism to Christian thought. He set many of the terms\nof the coming battle. In Platonic fashion, he sees the Son as a\nmediator, mediating between the absolute One of God and the plurality\nof creating beings. The Son is generated, but he is \"eternally\ngenerated\". That is, the relationship between Father and Son is\neternal. It cannot be said that \"there was once when he was not\" (a\nphrase that will haunt the discussion for centuries). Having the Son\nis intrinsic to his concept of God. The Father and Son are described\nas separate \"hypostases\", though this may not have quite the meaning\nof separate subsistence that it had in some contexts. The union is\none of love and action, but there is some reason to think that he may\nhave used the term homoousios (\"of the same substance\"). The Holy\nSpirit is also an active, personal substance, originated by the Father\nthrough the Son. Origen's intent is trinitarian, not tritheistic, but\nhe pushes things in the direction of separateness.\n\n\nFOURTH CENTURY\n\n--clh]\n\nSubordinationism [often called Arianism --clh]\n \nSource: Arius\nMajor Adherents: Modern Jehovah's Witnesses, and several other lesser known\ncults\nPerception of God's Essence: The inherent oneness of God's nature is properly\nidentifiable with the Father only. The Son and the Holy Spirit are discreet\nentities who do not share the divine essence.\nPerception of God's Subsistence: The unipersonal essence of God precludes the\nconcept of divine subsistence with a Godhead. \"Threeness in oneness\" is self-\ncontradictory and violates biblical principles of a monotheistic God.\nAsignation of Deity/Eternality:\n Father: The only one, unbegotten God who is eternal and without beginning.\n Son: A created being and therefore not eternal. Though he is to be venerated,\nhe is not of the divine essence.\n Holy Spirit: A nonpersonal, noneternal emanation of the Father. He is viewed\nas an influence, an expression of God. Deity is not ascribed to him.\nCriticism(s): It is at variance with abundant scriptural testimony respecting\nthe deity of both Christ and the Holy Spirit. Its hierarchial concept likewise\nasserts three essentially separate persons with regard to the Father, Christ,\nand the Holy Spirit. This results in a totally confused soteriology.\n[Note also that in most versions of this view, the Son is not fully\nhuman either. He is supernatural and sinless. That distinguishes this\nview from adoptionism. --clh]\n \nOrthodox Trinitarianism\n \nSource: Athanasius\nAdherents: Basil, Gregory of Nyssa, Gregory of Nazianzus, Augustine, Thomas\nAquinas, Luther, Calvin, Contemporary orthodox Christianity\nPerception of God's Essence: God's being is perfectly unified and simplex: of\none essence. This essence of deity is held in common by Father, Son, and Holy\nSpirit. The three persons are consubstantial, coinherent, co-equal, and co-\neternal.\nPerception of God's Subsistence: The divine subsistence is said to occur in\nthree modes of being or hypostases. As such, the Godhead exists \"undivided in\ndivided persons.\" This view contemplates an identity in nature and cooperation\nin function without the denial of distinctions of persons in the Godhead.\nAsignation of Deity/Eternality:\nIn its final distillation, this view unhesitatingly sets forth Father, Son,\nand Holy Spirit as co-equal and co-eternal in the Godhead with regard to both\nthe divine essence and function.\nCriticism(s): The only shortcoming has to do with the limitations inherent in\nhuman language and thought itself: the impossibility of totally describing the\nineffable mystery of \"three in oneness.\"\n[At least in the 4th Cent, there were several different approaches, all\nof which fit the description here, and all regarded as orthodox, but which\nare somewhat different in detail. Nicea was originally held to respond\nto Arius. Arius can be thought of as carrying Origen's thought a bit\ntoo far, to the point of making the Son a separate entity. In general\nthe East tended to take an approach based on Origen's, and it was hard\nto get acceptance of Nicea in the East. Its final acceptance was\nbased on the work of Athanasius with the Cappadocians: Gregory of Nyssa and\nGregory of Nazianzus, among others. While starting with three,\nthey show that their unity in nature and and action is such that one\nmust think of them as being a single God. This allowed the Council\nof Constantinople, in 381, to get wide agreement on the idea of\nthree hypostatese and one ousia. --clh]\n\nAdapted from _Charts of Christian Theology and Doctrine_, by H. Wayne House.\n\n\nFrank", "\n\n\n\n Uh oh, Michael; you typed \"hell\" and capitalized it to boot! Now\nPeter Nyikos will explain that you're not a real Christian!\n\n\n\n\nBZZT! Sorry Michael--the Nyikos Inquisition pointed out that I was\nhell-bound after one mildly scurrilous pun on \"revealing oneself.\"\nAdmitting to masturbation--well, I'm just shocked!", "\nOr a religion is a cult that got co-opted by people who are better at\ncompartmentalizing their irrationality.\n\nPeter", "\n\nIn many places, Christians were sucessful in their attempts\nto get the films banned, or at least given a very restrictive \nshowing.\n\nI have no problem with Christians burning their own pieces of\nart (though I find it a tragic waste). I do however have a \nproblem with their attempts to censor what I may or may not\nview.\n\nP.", "jwindley@cheap.cs.utah.edu (Jay Windley) writes...\n\n[...]\n\n\nThis is curious. I read in _EH_...\n\n\"The Lord imparted the gift of knowledge to James the Just, to John \nand Peter after his resurrection, these delivered it to the rest of \nthe apostles, and they to the seventy, of whom Barnabas was one.\"\n\t\t\t \n\t\t\t--- Eusebius, _Ecclesiastical History_\n\nIt seems that the Lord imparted the gift of knowledge, not that the\nLord imparted secret information.\n\n[...]\n\n\nI'm afraid that I cannot find this portrayal in _EH_. \nI don't see anywhere in 3:32:7-8 where Eusebius mentions that certain \ngnostics had the wrong gnosis.\n\nThe closest is when Eusebius summarizes Hegesippus' statements, \n\"...whilst if there were any at all, that attempted to pervert \nthe sound doctrine of the saving gospel, they were yet skulking \nin dark retreats...\"\n\n\n\"Favorably interpreted?\" Just in looking at two of the four \nreferences that you gave (I have the _EH_ handy, Irenaeus and the \n_Clemetine Recognitions_ I will have to look for) I see no room for \nsuch 'interpretations.'\n\nAnd any such 'interpretation' still falls short of an equivalence to \nthe Temple Ceremonies. \n\nThe links for Jay's using _EH_ for support are: \"imparting the gift \nof knowledge\" = \"imparted secret information\" = \"being given secret \nsigns and tokens to gain entrance to heaven.\" But there is not\nenough equivalence between the the ideas for us to be able to call \nthis \"favorable interpretation.\" It appears to be closer to \n\"fabrication.\"", " >Subject: hate the sin...\n >Date: 12 May 93 08:27:08 GMT\n\n >\"Hate the sin but love the sinner\"...I've heard that quite a bit recently,\n >My question is whether that statement is consistent with Christianity. I\n >would think not. Hate begets more hate, never love.\n\n If you are questioning whether or not \"hating sin\" is consistent with\n Christianity; I ask you to consider the following Scripture:\n\n Romans 12:9 \"Let Love be without hypocrisy. Hate what is evil, cling\n to what is good.\"\n\n What is it that Paul, through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit is\n calling us to hate? Would God call us to do something that would\n eventually lead to hating our fellow man; especially when he commands us to\n do the opposite, to love your fellow man?\n\n >Consider some sin. Now lets apply our \"hate the sin...\" philosophy and see\n >what happens. If we truly hate the sin, then the more we see it, the\n >stronger our hatred of it will become. Eventually this hate becomes so\n >strong that we become disgusted with the sinner and eventually come to\n >hate the sinner.\n\n That has not been my experience. I've not found myself hating anybody\n as a result of hating the sin that may be in their life. As a sinner\n myself, I find myself having more compassion for the person. Jesus too,\n since the Bible teaches that he was tempted in every way that we are, is\n able to have compassion on us when we our tempted and fall. Jesus is our\n very example of HOW to hate the sin but love the sinner. In the account of\n the woman caught in adultery (John 8), Jesus had compassion on the woman;\n BUT he also called her to leave her life of sin. This is what it means to\n love sinners but hate their sin; it means loving them unconditionally,\n while at the same time calling them to leave their sin.\n\n >In addition, our hatred of the sin often causes us to say and do things\n >which are taken personally by the sinner (who often does not even believe\n >what they are doing is a sin).\n\n The blame for this can not always be laid at the feet of the\n Christian. I have seen and been guilty of taking offense by someone merely\n pointing out my sin and calling me to repent of it. It was not unloving\n for the Christian to call me out of sin; in fact, I believe it was the most\n loving thing that that person could have done. He loved me enough to want\n to spare me the consequence of remaining in my sin.\n\n >After enough of this, the sinner begins to hate us (they certainly don't\n >love us for our constant criticism of their behavior). Hate builds up and\n >drives people away from God...this certainly cannot be a good way to build\n >love.\n\n Again, I don't think that you can lay the blame for this at the feet of\n the Christian. If we have loved them as Jesus loved sinners (exemplified\n in John 8) and the sinner hates us for it, then we have done the best we\n can. We will have extended to them the most perfect expression of love and\n they will have rejected it.\n\n Now it we hate the sin but forget to love the sinner, then indeed, we\n will, ourselves, be in sin.\n\n >In the summary of the law, Christ commands us to love God and to love our\n >neighbors. He doesn't say anything about hate.\n\n I would like to encourage you to do a word study on HATE in the New\n Testament. I really think that you will be surprised.\n\n >In fact, if anything, he commands us to save our criticisms for ourselves.\n\n Criticism is very different from calling a sinner to repent.\n\n Hope this helps,\n In Christ,\n Tony Balsamo\n--", "\nI believe this is a just another of way of expressing the basic truth\n\"All things were created by him and FOR him.\" (emphasis mine) \nCol. 1:16 , Rev. 4:11. If you and I have been created for God, naturally\nthere will be a vacuum if God is not our all and all. In fact,\nthe first chapter of Collosians brings out this status of Christ, that\nHe should have the preeminence. When you life is alligned with Him,\nand you do His will, then the vacuum is filled.", "{I sent in something on this before but I believe it got lost in the\nweekend accident the moderator described. This is an improved\nversion anyway so no loss the first time. HL}\n\nThe standard work on detecting forgeries of ancient documents \nis probably the writing of Friedrich Blass, \"Hermeneutrik und \nKritik,\" _Einleitende und Hilfsdisziplinen_, vol 1 of\n_Handbuch der Klassischen Altertums- wissenshaft_ (Noerdlingen:\nBeck, 1886). Portions of this are described in Nibley, _The \nProphetic Book op Mormon_, pp 219-242 (SLC: Deseret Book, 1989).\n(If you want to attempt reading this be forewarned. Nibley\ndescribes Blass as a typical German scholar who claims little\nknowledge of his subject, then proceeds to exhaust both the subject\nand the reader.) Nibley's extract from Blass's work is in the form\nof \"rules for forgers.\" It makes interesting reading.\n\nI confess that I have not read Blass's work, only Nibley's extract\nthereof. My German falls far short of what would be required and\nas far as I know there is no English translation available. However,\nI believe the techniques he describes are known widely enough that \nany competent classical scholar could examine a purportedly ancient\ndocument and at least determine if it is consistent with what one \nwould expect of a genuine document of that time frame. We will not \nbe able to prove who wrote it but at least we should be able to \ndetermine with reasonable confidence if it is from that time and \nculture or is a later forgery.\n\nActually there are 2 types of purportedly ancient documents:\n\n1. Alleged actual holographs or early copies thereof. For example\nthe Dead Sea Scrolls. These can be tested by various scientific\nmeans to determine the age of the paper, inks, and objects found\nwith them. This can provide a pretty clear dating of the actual\nphysical objects.\n\n2. Documents claiming to be copies of ancient works although the\ncopy itself may be much more recent. For example we might find a\ndocument which monks in a monastary claim is a copy of something\nfrom centuries ago (perhaps even having been through several\ngenerations of copists). This is more of a problem but can still \nbe tested (although the test is not likely to be simple). We cannot\nexpect a test of the age of the physical objects to tell us much so\nwe must confine our testing to the text itself.\n\nIt is important to remember that none of these tests can tell us if\nthe document is really what it claims to be. They can only date the\ndocument and identify its culture of origin. For example I've heard\nof a letter supposed to have been written by Jesus himself to a king\nin what is now Iraq. If this document were to actually turn up\nscholars could date the paper and ink (assuming they have the\nholograph). They could check the language, content and writing\nstyle to see if they are consistent with what would be expected of a\nPalestinian Jew of that time. However even if all test results were\npositive there is no way to determine if Jesus himself actually\nwrote it. We would know what time and culture it came from but\n(barring a known sample of Jesus handwriting or other clues for \ncomparison) scholarship must stop there. There is seldom any way to\ndetermine who the actual author was.\n\nAs I say, I'm no expert on Blas's work. I do remember some of the\ntests which can be applied to alleged copies of ancient works. \nSpecifically we might ask:\n\n1. Is the document internally consistent? Does it contradict\nitself? If the work it is short it would be relatively easy to \nmaintain internal consistency, even if it is a forgery. The \nlonger the forgery the more difficult it is to maintain consistency.\nFor this reason most successful forgers stick to short documents.\n\n2. Is it consistent with the history and geography of the time?\nAgain a short, non-specific work might not be testable but if the\nwriting is of any significant length no latter-day forger would be\nable to escape detection. Here we look for the minor, inconspicuous\nthings which someone from that culture would get right without even\nthinking about it but which a later forger would find too numerous \nand trivial to check. The devil is in the details.\n\n3. What about the literary style of the work, figures of speech\netc. Any ancient writer would almost certainly speak in ways that \nseem strange to us. Are there any such odd phrases in this book? \nIf so do they fit in with the culture?\n\nOf course there are complications if the document has been\ntranslated, or possibly even if somebody just updated language\nwhen he copied it. A few cases of language not from the culture\nclaimed may be allowed in recent copies. They cause problems and\nreduce certainty to be sure but don't necessarily prove forgery.\n\nThese tests can be quite effective (given enough material to work \nwith) but they are not easy. They require the skills of the \nhistorian, the linguist, the anthropologist etc. The questions to \nask are, \"Is every aspect of this document consistent with what we \nknow about the culture of claimed origin?\" If there are things \nwhich don't fit how significant are they? Are problem areas due to\nour lack of knowledge, later changes by copists or are they really \nsignificant? There will often be some ambiguity since we never\nknow everything about the culture.", "\n\n\n\n More correctly: when people die, they cease to exist.\n\n\n\n The idea I've gotten is that to christians, Hell is -- like Heaven --\n afterlife; i.e, you don't cease to exist, but are subjected to eternal \n torture (well, that's the orthodox idea anyway; \"eternal death\" if you\n prefer that). Atheists don't believe in any sort of afterlife.\n\n\n I think it's safe to say that Hell was never intended metaphorical. Certainly\n not the equivalent of ceasing to exist. Some christian concepts are indeed\n metaphors, but your idea of Hell is a 20th century interpretation. It is, of\n course, nice to see that even christianity might evolve to fit the worldview \n of modern age, but I fear the church will not accept it. Understandably, per-\n haps, because if you accept that Hell is a metaphor, then you're one step\n closer to turning God into a metaphor as well.", "Most of the key issues in the 284 line post to which I am following up are\ndealt with in the following post I made on talk.abortion yesterday,\nmodified to correct the next to last paragraph.\n\nMessage-ID: \n\nReferences: <1993Apr13.122356.3612@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>\n\n\n\n\nDean did not. He called them \"the Great Commission\" but this is NOT\ndescriptive of Jesus's words in Matt. 10:15.\n\nMatt. 10:14, Jerusalem Bible translation:\n\n\t\"And if anyone does not welcome you or listen to what you have\n\tto say, as you walk out of the house or town shake the dust\n\tfrom your feet.\"\n\nMatt. 10:15:\n\n \t\"I tell you solemnly, on the day of Judgment it will not \n \tgo as hard with the land of Sodom and Gomorrah as with \n \tthat town.\"\n\n\n\"> The above is a good description of Kaflowitz, who keeps harping on\n > shaking the dust off the feet but ignoring what Christ said next.\"\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^\n\nThe highlighted words refer to Matt 10:14 and 10:15 respectively.\n\nAnd Dean countered:\n\n\"Actually, this comment of your's is a perfect example of what an\nintellectually dishonest little sparrowfart you are, since I\nspecifically acknowledged the Great Commission and the entreaty\nto spread the word. In fact, it is the combination of the two\nstatements I was addressing, and not just the one, and for you to\ncharacterize that as \"ignoring\" the instruction to spread the\nword is a good example of what a dishonest little fellow you are.\"\n\nOf course, Matt 10:15 [quoted above] makes no mention of \"instruction\nto spread the word.\"\n\nAll these quotes btw are from:\n\nMessage-ID: <1993Apr13.121624.3400@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>\n\n\nAnd I claim it correctly, because my question went:\n\n\"Do you, too, measure\nthe goodness of a post by its entertainment value, and care not\na whit for such mundane things as truth and falsehood?\"\n\nand the closest Dean came to an answer was:\n\n\"Peter, Peter, Peter. You're just so stupid, pretentious, dull,\nand generally unworthy of the value you place on yourself that\nthe sport is all there is.\"\n\nOf course, this does NOT answer my question, which has to do with posts\nin GENERAL and not my posts in particular. Surely even Dean knows this,\nyet he brazenly asserts otherwise, reinforcing his claim with an insult:\n\n\"So I now restore the answer to your question\nthat you deleted. If you're still unable to figure it out, ask\na nice kid at the local junior high to help you. It really\ndoesn't take much sophistication to understand.\"\n\nOn top of which, I doubt that the \"answer\" is at all representative\nof Dean's true frame of mind. The insults you have seen quoted thus\nfar are but a small sample of the stream that oozes out of Dean's \nmind throughout the 284-line post from which these quotes were taken.\nOne wonders whether Dean's mind is so warped as to find sport in all\nthis.\n\nHe even dredges up a falsified account of\nevents that transpired earlier on another thread:\n\n\"You made an ass of yourself by claiming that it\n\t\t\t\t^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nwas in the tradition of Lent to make public announcements of\n^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nthe \"sins\" of other individuals.\"\n^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nFalse. I said it was the tradition to recall and atone for one's sins.\nThat I made public announcements of the \"sins\" of others\n--\"sins\", BTW, that were a matter of public record, documented in\nthe posts of others-- is a different matter.\n\nMany of the individuals involved are so nearly amoral that\nthey do not see as sins what morally upright people see as sins, so\nI pointed some of them out. And I expressly set up a whole thread,\nYOUR TURN, to let people point out MY sins to me.\n\nDean again:\n\n\"You made an ass of yourself\nby saying that my statement of the tradition of tzedukkah was\nsomehow an attempt to \"paint Jews as plaster saints,\" thereby\nrevealing your inability to understand the discussion as well\nas showing your dislike for people saying positive things\nabout Jews, and now you show your intellectual dishonesty by\nrepeatedly ignoring the simple argument being made, and then\nclaiming I am ignoring the very argument I acknowledge.\"\n\nActually, what happened was that Dean made it seem like ANY Jew\nwho gave alms or did other acts of charity in public was a hypocrite\naccording to Jewish customs. In doing so, he was caricaturing\nJewish customs as being almost impossibly demanding, as well as\nimplicitly slandering all Jews who make public their acts of charity.\n\nI went very easily on Dean for this, giving him the benefit of\nthe doubt in a post following my initial crack about \"plaster saints\", \nsuggesting that he had been merely careless in his wording.\n\nIn an astonishing act of ingratitude, Dean now serves up an incredibly\ndistorted picture of what took place between us, and using it as\nthe basis of one insult after another.", "\nI haven't read this entire thread, but, if someone hasn't tossed this out yet, then here it is: \n\n2 Samuel 12:21-23 (RSV) : \n\n \"Then his servants said to him, `What is this thing that you have\n done? You fasted and wept for the child while it was alive; but when\n the child died, you arose and ate food.' He [David] said, 'While the\n child was still alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, 'Who knows\n whether the LORD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?' But\n now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall\n go to him, but he will not return to me.'\"\n\nAnyhow, many interpret this to mean that the child has gone to Heaven\n(where David will someday go). I don't claim to know for sure if this\napplies to all babies or not. But even if it's just this one, what\nwould you say to this?", "\n Damn right you can't provide any evidence for it. \n\n Rarely are any widespread social phenomenon reducible to such a\n simple premise. If they were, psychology would be a hard science\n with roughly the same mathematical soundness as physics. \n\n Your premise may well be right. It is much more likely, however,\n that it reflects your socialization and religious background, as\n well as your need to validate your religious beliefs. Were I to\n pretend to have all the answers (and I don't), I would say that the\n xenophobia, guilt, and intolerance brought about by adherence to \n fundamentalist religions play just as large a role in depressing\n the members of our society.\n\n Your mileage obviously varies.\n\n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ \n\nBob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM \n\nThey said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,\nand sank Manhattan out at sea.", "\n\nPaul's statement only asserts that that particular choice was not\na matter of karmic fulfillment of the past, just as the fate of the\nman born blind (John 9) was not. There is no question here of the\nsimplistic idea of karma as a machine that is the sole determiner\nof one's destiny. Even the eastern traditions, or many of them,\ndo not say that, as one knowledgeable poster pointed out.\n\nAnd if in fact that Paul did not know about or believe in reincarnation\ndoes not say anything one way or another about it. Even John the Baptist,\nwho Jesus says emphatically is Elijah (Matt 11:14), does not appear to \nhave been aware of it, at least at the point at which he was asked. But \nit is interesting that his threefold denial -- to the question whether \nhe is the Christ, the Prophet (i.e. Isaiah), or Elijah, is emphatic in \nthe first case and very weak in the third.\n\nI would like to add once again that, while it is important to discuss the\ndifferent passages that may point directly to the teaching of repeated\nearth lives, one way or another, what I really see as important in our\ntime is that the subject be revisited in terms of the larger view of\nChristianity and Christian doctrine. For the most part, those who do\naccept it either reject the central ideas of Christianity or, if they\nare Christians, hold their conviction as a kind of separate treasure.\nI believe that Christianity has important new understanding to bring\nto bear on it, and vice versa, much that is central to Christianity\ntakes on entirely new dimensions of meaning in light of repeated earth\nlives. It has a direct bearing on many of the issues frequently discussed \nin this newsgroup in particular.\n\nI have said openly that I have developed my views of repeated earth lives\nlargely from the work of Rudolf Steiner. Not that I hold him as an\nauthority, but the whole picture of Christianity becomes clearer in light\nof these ideas. Steiner indicated that the old consciousness of reincar-\nnation necessarily had to fade away that it could be renewed in later\ntimes, after a time of development of the Christ idea through the first\ntwo millenia after Christ's deed on Golgotha. In our own time, it becomes \nimportant that, having received the basic gospel of salvation, our \nunderstanding of life and of the human being can now grow to embrace the \nsignificance of this idea. For the discussions in this newsgroup, I \nhave tried to focus on that which can be related as directly as possible \nto scripture and to fundamental Christian teaching and tradition.", "John E. King (king@ctron.com) posts a whopping one liner:\n\n * \"The modern theory of evolution is so inadequate that it deserves to be *\n * treated as a matter of faith.\" -- Francis Hitching *\n\n I have a few points to make about the above posting.\n\n 1. Science is not based on and does not consist of \"quotes\" from either\n real or alleged experts. Critical reasoning, evidence and (if possible)\n experimentation are necessary. Creationists frequently display a massive\n confusion about this by merely quoting both non-experts and experts alike\n (some of the latter quotes are in fact false) and steadfastly refusing to\n follow any kind of rigorous scientific procedure. This strongly suggests\n that (a.) their claims completely lack any scientific merit and (b.) they\n are aware of this fatal deficiency. Of course, you may not actually be a\n creationist and this may not be your real intent.\n\n 2. You have failed to identify Hitching and the surrounding context of his\n statement. Why is that? If Hitching is a scientific illiterate then the\n quote would merely display his profound ignorance of evolutionary biology.\n Creationists are frequently known to quote real scientists out of context\n and to fabricate statements that they subsequently attribute to legitimate\n scientists. Of course, you may not actually be a creationist and this may\n not be your real intent.\n\n 3. Evidence supporting the alleged inadequacies of \"the modern theory of\n evolution\" would be a much more powerful argument than a contextless one\n line quote from an unidentified nobody. It is also important to note that\n disproving biological evolution does not automatically prove some alternate\n claims any more that disproving that the earth is shaped like a hockey puck\n proves that it is a hyperbolic paraboloid. Creationists seem rather fond\n of diving (head first) into this logical fallacy. Of course, you may not\n actually be a creationist and this may not be your real intent.\n\n 4. Since evolution is central to virtually all of modern science, an attack\n on evolution (either the fact or the theory) really represents an attack on\n science. While the theory will unquestionably continue to evolve (B^) the\n fact of evolution will not ever go away. Creationists lost the battle long\n ago (more than 100 years in fact) but are simply too willfully ignorant and\n irrational to acknowledge the fact. Of course, you may not actually be a\n creationist and you may not really be that ignorant.\n\n\nWarren Kurt vonRoeschlaub (kv07@IASTATE.EDU) asks:\n\n * Neither I, nor Webster's has ever heard of Francis Hitchings. Who is he? *\n\n I, like Hitchings, am not to be found in Webster's B^). Francis Hitchings\nis a scientifically illiterate creationist (or perhaps he is just playing the\npart of one) who wrote a quite ignorant book attacking evolution (\"The Neck of\nthe Giraffe\"). In that publication he quotes a creationist (Jean Sloat Morton)\nusing the standard invalid creationist probability argument that proteins could\nnot have formed by chance. Thus not only confusing abiogenesis with evolution\n(the two are quite independent) but also concluding with a \"non sequitur\" (i.e.\nthe conclusion \"does not follow\"). [pp 70-71] Hitchings also misquotes Richard\nLewontin in an effort to support creationism. [pp 84]\n\n Hitchings book was reviewed by National Park Service ecologist David Graber\nin the Los Angeles Times (and repeated in the Oregonian). The article was\ntitled \"`Giraffe' sticks scientific neck out too far\". Excerpts include :\n\n \"Francis Hitchings is not a biologist.\" \"He goes after Darwin like Mark\n Antony after Brutus. He flips from scientific reasoning to mysticism and\n pseudo-science with the sinuosity of a snake-oil salesman.\" \"He suggests\n a mystical `organizing principle' of life, using the similarity of organs\n in different creatures as evidence [sic].\"\n\n Note that the last statement above is actually evidence FOR evolution not\nagainst it. If John E. King is quoting from this reviewed book it wouldn't\nsurprise me much. It's also interesting that King had nothing to add (i.e.\nhe only posted a quote).\n", "Narrative, narrative, narrative. . .\n\n", "\n\n\nMy roommate, the atheist, says \"to anyone out there who might be \nlistening.\"\n ", "\nthis borders on blasphemy.", "04 Apr 93, David Cruz-Uribe writes to All:\n\n DC> Also, what is Orthodox practice regarding communion? I read\n DC> a throw-away remark someplace that the Orthodox receive less\n DC> frequently than Catholics do, but was is their current practice?\n DC> Have their been any variations historically?\n\nI think Orthodox practice varies from place to place, from parish to parish and from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. In some parishes here in South Africa the only ones who receive communion are infants (i.e. children under\n 7). In our parish it is expected that one will have been to Vespers and confessional prayers the evening before, and that one will have been fasting. As we have to travel 70km to the church, we don'\nt receive communion every Sunday, but about every third Sunday.\n\nSteve", "\n \nFirst of all, the original poster misquoted. The reference is from 2 Tim 3:16.\nThe author was Paul, and his revelations were anything but \"(at best) \nsecond-hand\".\n\n\t\"And is came about that as [Saul] journeyed, he was approaching\n\t Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him; and\n\t he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, \"Saul, Saul,\n\t why are you persecuting Me?\" And he said, \"Who art Thou, Lord?\" And\n\t He said, \"I am Jesus whom you are persecuting, . . .\"\n\t\t(Acts 9:3-5, NAS)\n\nPaul received revelation directly from the risen Jesus! (Pretty cool, eh?) He\nbecame closely involved with the early church, the leaders of which were \nfollowers of Jesus throughout his ministry on earth.\n\n\nI agree. I don't believe anyone but the Spirit would be able to convince you \nthe Spirit exists. Please don't complain about this being circular. I know\nit is, but really, can anything of the natural world explain the supernatural?\n(This is why revelation is necessary to the authors of the Bible.)\n\n\nThe Spirit is part of God. How much closer to the source can you get?\nThe Greek in 2 Timothy which is sometimes translated as \"inspired by God\", \nliterally means \"God-breathed\". In other words, God spoke the actual words \ninto the scriptures. Many theologians and Bible scholars (Dr. James Boice is \none that I can remember off-hand) get quite annoyed by the dryness and \nincompleteness of \"inspired by God\".\n\n\nThat's what the verse taken from 2 Timothy was all about. The continuity of a \nbook written over a span of 1500 years by more than 40 authors from all walks \nof life is a testimony to the single authorship of God.\n\n\n\nWhat source to you claim to have discovered which has information of superior\nhistoricity to the Bible? Certainly not Josephus' writings, or the writings \nof the Gnostics which were third century, at the earliest.\n\n\nJesus was fully God as well. That's why I'd assert that he is wise.\n\n\nPlease rethink this last paragraph. If there is no God, which seems to be your\ncurrent belief, then Jesus was either a liar or a complete nut because not\nonly did he assert that God exists, but he claimed to be God himself! (regards\nto C.S. Lewis) How then could you have the least bit of respect for Jesus?\n\tIn conclusion, be careful about logically unfounded hypotheses based\non gut feelings about the text and other scholars' unsubstantiated claims. \nThe Bible pleads that we take it in its entirety or throw the whole book out.\n\tAbout your reading of the Bible, not only does the Spirit inspire the\nwriters, but he guides the reader as well. We cannot understand it in the \nleast without the Spirit's guidance:\n\n\t\"For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit \n\tsearches all things, even the depths of God.\" (1 Cor 2:10, NAS)\n \nPeace and may God guide us in wisdom.\n\n+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=\nCarter C. Page | Of happiness the crown and chiefest part is wisdom,\nA Carpenter's Apprentice | and to hold God in awe. This is the law that,\ncpage@seas.upenn.edu | seeing the stricken heart of pride brought down,\n | we learn when we are old. -Adapted from Sophocles\n+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=+-=-+-=+-=-+=-+-=-+-=-+=-+-=", "\nNow, take a good look at at, an tell me man, there is no Christian\nDevil? There is, is real, is a virus, a meme, infecting and possessing\nthe good people and keep 'em from becoming human beings with emphasis on\nthe being! Is not a matter of good people an evil people, is all good\npeople see, but some good people vexed of the Christian Devil. An it\ncan't be burn out or lynch out or rape out. Only wise up let I rise up.\nChristian Devil is real man, how else can you explain five hundred years\nof history, even more? Can only be explained by Christians invoke\nChristian Devil.\n\nyou keep on knocking but you can't come in, i got to understand you've\nbeen living in sin, but walk right in and sit right down, i'll keep\non loving you, i'll play the clown, but bend down low, let i tell you\nwhat i know yah\n\ni've been 'buked brothers and i've been stoned, woe, woe, woe, now i'm\nhung by a tree in the the ganging on a few, woe, woe, woe, it doesn't\nmatter who the man is who lives the life he loves, it doesn't matter\nwhat the man does or the honest life he loves, i want somewhere, i want\nsomewhere, hallelujah, hallelujah, somewhere to lay my head, woe is me\n\nonly ska beat in 'eaven man\n\nstiff necked fools, you think you're cool, to deny me for simplicity, yes\nyou have gone, for so long with your love for vanity now, yes you have\ngot the wrong interpretation mixed up with vain imagination, so take jah\nsun and jah moon and jah rain and jah stars, and forever yes erase your\nfantasy, yeah, the lips of the righteous teach many, but fools die for\nwant of wisdom, the rich man's wealth is in his city, the righteous\nwealth is in his holy place, so take jah sun and jah moon and jah rain\nand jah stars, and forever yes erase your fantasy, destruction of the\npoor is in their poverty, destruction of the soul is vanity, yeah, but i\ndon't want to rule ya, i don't want to fool ya, i don't want to school\nya, things you, you might never know about, yes you have got the wrong\ninterpretation mixed up with vain, vain imagination, stiff necked fools,\nyou think you're cool, to deny me for, oh simplicity\n\nlove to see, when yah move in the rhythm, love to see when you're\ndancing from within, it gives great joy to feel such sweet togetherness,\neveryone's doing and they're doing their best, it remind i of the days\nin jericho, when we trodden down jericho wall, these are the days when\nwe'll trod true babylon, gonna trod until babylon fall\n\nthen I saw the angel with the seven seals saying, babylon throne going down", "They looked unto him, and were lightened:\n\tand their faces were not ashamed.", "(Dean and I write lots and lots about absolute truth and arrogance.)\n\n\nI agree that we'll probably never agree, and I'm starting to feel \nfrustrated, and I'm tired of having my conversations with my husband \ndominated by this topic (just kidding, :-)).\n\nI do have to say, though, that participating in this discussion has been\na good learning experience for me. My views on this topic have evolved\nand clarified through this, and I suspect that we may not disagree as \nmuch as we think. \n\nI admit that I'm strongly prejudiced against evangelical Christianity,\nand I may not always be rational in my reactions to it. I grew up\nin EC, and went to an EC college. It was definitely the wrong place\nfor me, and I react strongly to any implication that EC or conservative\nChristianity has any sort of stronghold on true Christianity. I shudder \nwhen I remember the condescending attitude I had about other Christians \nwho didn't adhere to the EC model.\n\nI have come to see that my real objection to this whole notion of \nabsolute truth is the actions I have seen it lead to. I have had some \nvery bad experiences with evangelical Christians claiming to know the \ntruth, and judging me or others based on their belief that they have \nthe answers. Knowing the truth doesn't seem to leave a whole lot of \nroom for others' opinions.\n\nI can accept your belief in absolute truth as long as you* don't try to \nuse that belief to try to force others to comply with it, and you are \nvery careful that you don't hurt others with it. Love your neighbor \nseems to go totally out the window when one knows the truth and believes \nthat everyone should be living by that truth. Other people have \nconvictions about the truth every bit as strong and sincere as yours, \nbased on careful searching, prayer, and their relationship with God. \nDon't dismiss them because God didn't lead them to the same conclusions \nas yours.\n\n*This is not directed personally at you, Dean.", "\n\nThere was an article in USA today a few months ago showing the results\nof a study that actually only about 1% were homosexual. I saw another\nfigure that listed 2% as the figure. Of course, even if it were 99%\nthat would have little bearing on whether or not it is a sinful behavior.\nHow many people have commited other acts of fornication? How many\npeople have lied or sinned in other ways?\n\n\nWhy isn't it a specific feature of homosexuality? Paul describes\n\"men with men working that which is unseemly\" to describe the acts. \nSure, there spirtual nature was depraved also, and like the other\nsins, the idolatry, the other sexual immoraity, and the other sins\nsprang from their depraved spiritual state which was a result of \nman's not glorifying God as God and being thankful. Still, their\nacts were shameless.\n\n\nIs everything sinful specifically elaborated on in the New Testament?\nScripture does not condemn being a drug dealer. Being ruled by the\nSpirit rather than the letter not only frees from legalism, it also\nprotects us from sins that are against the Spirit. The word is a\ntwo edged sword that cuts both ways. \n\nI think we must be careful before we totally throw out Leviticus. \nIf the Law is reflection of God's character and true holy nature, then\nthose who say that God endorses homosexuality run into a problem. \nIf homosexuality were \"natural\" (whatever that means) wholesome, \nendorsed by God, and those who oppose sexual behavior are narrow-minded\nbiggots, as some would have us believe, why is there a condemnation of\nit in Leviticus. This condemnation is in the midst of all the other\nsex sin condemnations, and there is nothing in the text to say that this\nlaw was limited to temple prostitution, and no good reason to believe that\nthis was the case. Furthermore, male homosexual sex was a death-penalty\ncrime! \n\nIs every sin elaborated on in the New Testament? Take a look at\nI Corinthians 5. Paul said that one of the Corinthians had broken a\nlaw not even heard of among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's\nwife. There is a prohibition against having your father's wife in \nLeviticus. No other new Testament verse clearly condemns it (besides\nthis one.) Notice that Paul did not say that the sin was in commiting\nadultery, etc.- he spoke against having one's father's wife. \n\nNotice also that this sexual condemnation in Leviticus is not mentioned\nin the specific context of paganism either. And there was no pagan \ncoustom mentioned in I corinthians either. As a matter of fact\ntaking one's father's wife wasn't even done among the Gentiles. It was\njust a plain blantant sin, whether worshipping idols was involved or\nnot.\n\n\nOne of the reasons that some of us do not accept that common argument\nis because Paul probably did face this and other problems. Sin can\nbe tough to over come, especially without supernatural power. Is\nhomosexual sin any more difficult to overcome that heterosexual sin,\nlike lusting after a married woman, or sleeping around with people of\nthe opposite sex? I doubt it, and even if it is, that is no excuse.\nGod is greater than all of it. \n\nAnother reason we reject it is because it ignores the supernatural\npower of God to intervene in this kind of situation. How many \npeople have been set free from sin by the power of God? Sure there\nmay be any groups that have tried to change homosexuals and failed.\nThat is a reflection on the people involved in the program, and not\nGod's willingness and ability to change a sinner. Any program that\nuses formulas may fail. What people need is the power of God to\nchange them, whether they are involved in homosexual sin, or any other\nsin.\n\n\nI don't see how you come to that conclusion. Paul's dealings with\npastorial issues encouraged people to give up their liberties in order\nto spare others- not to allow people to continue in sin because it\nwas just too difficult. Take the example of eating meat offered to idols.\nPaul felt that there was nothing wrong, in an abstract sense, with\neating the meat. Yet he advised believers to sacrifice their liberty\nto eat meat in order to spare others. \n\nBut Paul never allowed people to sin because living holy was just to\ntough. Paul wrote to \"make no provision for the flesh to fulfill the lusts\nthereof.\" (Romans 13:14) Then he goes in to a discourse on how we\nshould sacrifice our own liberty in order to spare the consciences of others.\n\nSuppose it were not a sin for people to practice homosexual acts. \nSince others consider it to be a sin, then using Paul's approach\non pastorial issues, those who would otherwise be homosexuals should \nsacrifice their liberty and be celbate or monogamously married to a\nmember of the opposite sex. Paul never offers a lesser sin (homosexual\n\"marriage\") to prevent people from engaging in what may be considered \na more damaging sin.\n\n\nYet marriage itself is not a sin. marriage is holy in all- and something\nthat God ordains, and Paul recognizes this.\n\n\nActually, Adam was put in the garden to tend to it before he fell.\nAfter he fell he would have to toil over the ground.\n\n\nThat is why we are dependent totally on God- what a vunerable and glorious\nposition to be it. We all must be transformed by the renewing of our\nminds- and that is the only way homosexuals can walk in freedom, just\nlike anyone else.\n\n\nI'm sure you can see how people with the opposing view see this \nconclusion. It's like saying, \"How should I kill myself, with gun or\naresenic? What about the person who just is overcome with a desire to\nsleep with goats? Would it be better for him to sleep with one goat,\nor all of them? What about the person who wants to sleep with his aunts?\nWould it be better for him to sleep with one aunt or all of them? \n\nIn all these cases, the more people or animals one sleeps with, the higher\nthe chance that they will get a disease. But this only deals with \nphysical aspects of the question. Whichever sin is commited, it all \nleads to spiritual death.\n\n\nThe issue that is most often addressed in Scripture seems to be the\nactual act. Second, isn't it historical snobbery to say that\nonly homosexuals of this century are capable of having \"loving\nrelationships?\" There are ancient writings glorifying homosexual \"love.\"\n(btw, I am one who believes in refraining from making oathes. Also,\nwhere do you get that tax collectors are sinners. That's certainly not\nexplicit. Jesus didn't tell Zachias to quit his job.)\n\nLink Hudson.\n", "Alison J Wyld wrote to All:\n\n AJW> Does anyone know of an English language edition that does not show the\n AJW> verse (or even chapter) numbers.\n\n[...]\n\n clh> [The original NEB put verse numbers only in the margin [...]\n\nKenneth Wuest's expanded translation of the New Testament does the same - it puts the range of verse numbers next to the top of each paragraph. Being an expanded translation it is quite verbose though - more suitable for detailed study than for quick reading.\n\nMike\n\n--- GoldED 2.41", "\nCould an atheist accept a usage in which religious literature or\ntradition is viewed in a metaphorical way? Of course: this is\nessentially what we do with Homer, or with other concepts such as\nfate, luck, free will ;-)... However, there remains the question of\nwhether the religious literature of -- say -- Christianity is a\nparticularly *good* set of metaphors for the world today. It's also\nentirely unclear, and to me quite unlikely, that one could take a\ncontemporary religion like that and divorce the metaphoric potential\nfrom the literalism and absolutism it carries now in many cases.", "\n\"I hold that space cannot be curved, for the simple reason that it can have\nno properties.\"\n\"Of properties we can only speak when dealing with matter filling the\nspace. To say that in the presence of large bodies space becomes curved,\nis equivalent to stating that something can act upon nothing. I,\nfor one, refuse to subscribe to such a view.\" - Nikola Tesla\n\n----\n ET \"Tesla was 100 years ahead of his time. Perhaps now his time comes.\"", "\n\npmy> ...Anyway, I've often wondered what business followers of Christ\npmy> would have with weapons.\n\nfc> Didn't Christ tell his disciples to arm them selves, shortly\nfc> before his crusifiction? (I believe the exact quote was along the\nfc> lines of, \"If you have [something] sell it and buy a sword.\")\n\n \"If you have a purse\" it was.\n\nfc> Certainly, Christ said,\n\nfc> \"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to\nfc> send peace but the sword. For I am come to set a man at variance\nfc> against his father, and the daugher against her mother...\"\n\nfc> [Matthew 10 34-35]\n\n Yes, He said this, but the sword that Jesus brought was the sword of\nthe Word of God, which divides between those that believe, and those\nwho do not, even right down a family.\n\nMark\n--\nMark TOWFIQ | Business/Urgent: towfiq@Microdyne.COM +1 508 392 9953 (fax 9962)\n\t Other: towfiq@Justice.Medford.MA.US +1 617 488 2818", "note: i am not the original poster, i am just answering because i\nthink this is important.\n\n[evil result of human sinfulness, rather than the will of God]\n\nwhoo. i'm going to have to be very careful with my language here. i\nthink God is voluntarily giving up his omniscience in this world so\nthat we can decide on our own where we go -- free will. in this sense\nGod allows evil to occur, and in this sense can be \"held responsible\"\nas my chaplain says. however, his will is, of course, that all be\nsaved. he's not going to save us \"by himself\" -- we have to take a\nstep in his direction before he will save us. read that last sentence\ncarefully -- i'm not saying we save ourselves. i'm saying we have to\nACCEPT our salvation. i do not believe in predestination -- it would\nappear from what you say further down that you do. \n\n[stuff deleted]\n\nok -- i have trouble with that, but i guess that's one of those things\nthat can't be resolved by argument. i accept your interpretation.\n\n[more deleted]\n\t\t\t ^^^^^^^^^\nthis is what indicates to me that you may believe in predestination.\nam i correct? i do not believe in predestination -- i believe we all\nchoose whether or not we will accept God's gift of salvation to us.\nagain, fundamental difference which can't really be resolved.\n\n[yet more deleted]\n\nyes, it is up to God to judge. but he will only mete out that\npunishment at the last judgement. as for now, evil can be done by\nhuman beings that is NOT God's will -- and the best we can do is see\ntaht some good comes out of it somehow. the thing that most worries\nme about the \"it is the will of God\" argument is that this will\nconvince people that we should not STOP the rape and killing when i\nthink that it is most christ-like to do just that. if jesus stopped\nthe stoning of an adulterous woman (perhaps this is not a good\nparallel, but i'm going to go with it anyway), why should we not stop\nthe murder and violation of people who may (or may not) be more\ninnocent?\n", "Bill Gripp writes\n\n\n\nok, but didn't Jesus figure somewhere into their beliefs? Anyway, my\noriginal question regarding christians and weaponry still stands. \n", "I've been thinking about the idea that was raised (by Michael Covington, \nI think) that words mean what we think they mean, regardless of \netymology. I've been reflecting on what certain words meant in my \nchildhood and tracing how this shaped some of my attitudes. \n\nI grew up in a home where Christ was a bad word. People who were very \nangry said it. The word Christian meant someone who was not a Jew. It \ncarried connotations of otherness, of threat, of enemy. It took some \ntime to figure out that there was a connection between `Christ' and \n`Christian'. When I accepted Jesus, I expected to be disowned. To \nbecome a Christian meant to join the enemy. I knew others would \nconsider me a traitor. At some level, I agreed, but was still prepared \nto pay this price. Like Esau, I sold my birthright. However, I made a \nbetter bargain. He only got some stew, but I got the incomparable \nriches of knowing Christ.\n\nAs it turned out, my parents did not disown me. I found out later that \nthey were hoping it was a phase that I would grow out of. By the time \nthey had decided it wasn't a phase, they were sort of used to it. They \ndidn't disown me but they didn't completely accept the situation either. \nFor example, they didn't come to my wedding because it was in a church. \nWhen I visited my grandmother in the hospital a few days before her \ndeath, she said to me, \"As far as I'm concerned, you still are a Jew.\" \nWhat she meant was that she loved me and forgave me. But I am not a \nJew. I am a Christian. (I'll concede, one that likes chicken soup with \nmatzoh balls.:-)) \n\nI do not keep kosher. I do not celebrate the Sabbath on Saturday. My \nsons are not circumcised. But these things are true of some people who \ndo consider themselves Jews. It is not these rules that make people \nJews; it is the heritage from the past. I gave up the past.\n\nThis is why I find it hard to relate to Messianic Jews. Their \nexperience is unlike mine. They still consider themselves Jews while \nfollowing Jesus. Some would even say that I *must* do so, too. \n\nI am at a stage of my life now where I would like to have a heritage. \nIt was not something I valued very much when I gave it. But I did have \na sense that I was giving it for God. It may have been a small \nsacrifice. It may have been an unnecessary sacrifice. But I gave it \nand do not want to ask for it back.\n\nAnd while I don't have the heritage I was born with, I do have another. \nI am an outcast from the house of Israel, but I am a member of the \nChurch. One of the things I like about being a Catholic Christian is \nthat it is rich in tradition. It gives me a feeling of, once again, \nbeing rooted in the past. \n\nThis is probably one of the reasons why I don't like it when people mess \naround with Christian traditions (for example, changing the name of \nEaster). These traditions fill an important emotional need of mine.\n\nI suppose the point of all this is that people shouldn't assume that all \nbelievers of Jewish background are the same. For some `Jewish \nChristian' is a good name, for others it is an oxymoron. ", "\n\n\n\nAs far as I can see, one of the big differences between Davidians and\nChristians is in who they follow. I have sometimes tried to put myself\nin the feet of one of Jesus's disciples. Basically, they gave up a\nlot --- career, possibly family, and well, a whole bunch, to follow\nJesus.\n\nSo what is the difference? It is quite plain. Jesus was good and\nDavid Koresh was not.\n\nThe problem is, I think, is that we try to legislate what is good\nand what is bad in terms of principles. For instance, there are thousands of \nlaws in the U.S. governing what is legal and what is not. Often, it is hard\nto bring people to justice, because it is not possible to find\na legal way to do it. If only we could trust judges to be just,\nthen we could tell them to administer justice fairly, and justice\nwould be followed. But since judges don't always get it right,\nwe have a complicated system involving precedent and bunches\nof other stuff which attempt to make the imperfect (the justice\nof man) into something perfect. But what I hear about the justice\nsystem in the U.S. tells me that quite the opposite is true.\n\nThere is also a problem that we tend to judge the presentation\nmore than the material being presented. So we might consider \na ranting Christian to be bad, but an eloquent person from another\nreligion to be good. This goes along with the American desire\nto protect the Constitution at all costs, even if it allows\npeople to do bad things. \n\nI think that it is the message that is important. If a man is\npresenting a false message, even if he is ever ever so mild mannered,\nthen that man is performing a tremendous disservice.\n\nI know that I am rambling here. I guess that what I am trying to\nsay is that we shouldn't be looking for principles that tell us\nwhy the Davidians got it wrong. It is not wrong to follow and\nworship a person. But it is important to choose the right person.\nIt is simple. Choose Jesus, and you got it right. Choose\nanyone else, and you got it wrong. Why? Because Jesus is the\nbegotten son of God, and nobody else is. Jesus was without sin, and\nnobody else was.", "[This is a response to a request for a Biblical reference about Satan\nbeing a fallen angel. --clh]\n\nIsaiah 14:12", "Recently, I've asked myself a rather interesting question: What RIGHT does\ngod have on our lives (always assuming there is a god, of course...!) ??\n\nIn his infinite wisdom, he made it perfectly clear that if we don't live\naccording to his rules, we will burn in hell. Well, with what RIGHT can god\nmake that desicion? Let's say, for the sake of argument, that god creates every\none of us (directly or indirectly, it doesn't matter.). What then happens, is\nthat he first creates us, and then turns us lose. Well, I didn't ask to be\ncreated. \n\nLet's make an analogue. If a scientist creates a unique living creature (which\nhas happened, it was even patented...!!!), does he then have the right to\nexpect it to behave in a certain matter, or die...?\n\nWho is god to impose its rules on us ? Who can tell if god is REALLY so\nrighteous as god likes us to believe? Are all christians a flock of sheep,\nunable to do otherwise that follow the rest? \n\nHmmmmmmmmmmmm.\n\nI just want to point out that this is not sarcasm, I mean it.\n\n\t\t \tHow should one deal with a man who is convinced that\n\t\t \the is acting according to God's will, and who there-\n Jokke\t\tfore believes that he is doing you a favour by\n\t\t \tstabbing you in the back?", "Is anybody using David Rapier's Hebrew Quiz software? And can tell\nme how to *space* when typing in the Hebrew? (space bar doesn't work,\nfor me anyway...) Email please; thanks.\n\nKen", "\nI am not familiar with, or knowledgeable about the original language,\nbut I believe there is a word for \"idol\" and that the translator\nwould have used the word \"idol\" instead of \"graven image\" had\nthe original said \"idol.\" So I think you're wrong here, but\nthen again I could be too. I just suggesting a way to determine\nwhether the interpretation you offer is correct.\n", "Hi everyone,\n\nI'm trying to find my way to God, but find it difficult as I can't hear\nGod talking to me, letting me know that he exists and is with me and\nthat he knows me, and I feel that I can't possibly get to know him until\nhe does. Maybe he _is_ talking to me but I just don't know or understand\nhow to listen.\n\nSome Christians tell me that (in their opinion) the only way to find God\nis to take a plunge and commit your life to him, and you will discover.\nThis idea of diving into the totally unknown is a little bit\nfrightening, but I have a few questions.\n\n1) How do you actually commit yourself? If I just say, \"OK God, her you\ngo, I'm committing my life to you\", I wouldn't really feel that he'd\nlistened - at least, I couldn't be sure that he had. So how does one (or\nhow did you) commit oneself to God?\n\n2) In committing myself in this way, what do I have to forfeit of my\ncurrent life? What can I no longer do? I feel that I'm as 'good' as many\nChristians, and I try to uphold the idea of 'loving your neighbour' - I\ndon't go round killing people, stealing, etc., and I try not to get\njealous of other people in any way - and I would say that I keep to the\nstandards of treating other people as well as many Christians. So what\ndo I have to give up?\n\n3) When committed, what do I have to do? What does it involve? What (if\nany) burdens am I taking on?\n\n4) So then, what's the general difference before and after? I assume,\nthat (like on your birthday you don't suddenly feel a year older) it\nwon't suddenly change my life the day I commit myself. So what happens?\n\n5) How can I be sure that it is the right thing to do? How can I find\nout what the 'it' in the last sentence actually _is_?!\n\nThanks very much for all your help in answering these questions. Perhaps\ne-mail would be a better way to reply, but it's up to you.", "\nBobby-\n\nA few posts ago you said that Lucifer had no free will. From the above\nit seems the JW believes the contrary.\n\nAre you talking about the same Lucifer?\n\nIf so, can you suggest an experiment to determine which of you is wrong?\n\nOr do you claim that you are both right?", "bobbe@vice (Robert Beauchaine;6086;59-323;LP=A;YAyG) Pontificated: \n\nI would guess that you either mean that you don't have a problem\nswearing aligance to a non-existant being or that you are being\ndeliberatily dense (considering what group this is). \n\nIt doesn't come \"quite naturally\" to nonbelievers such as myself\nor even to followers of other religions. Would you say it would\nbe quite natural if you were forced to swear by \"Allah\" or\n\"Budda\"? \n\n", "\nNo, Dave, and as an anthropologist I take great umbrage with this \nmisrepresentation. I sense that it is you that has made the jump from creation\n(science) to religion (see above). I have characterized science/*creation \nscience* as rationalism/nonsense, and that it is. When people promote their \nreligious beliefs as science they become nonsense. Kept where they belong \nthey are meaningful and useful, as virtually any anthropologists will tell you,\nand as I have said several times in this group. And it works the other way, \ntoo, and I have repeatedly said so. Never have I said or meant anything \ndifferent, here or elsewhere, and I don't think my communication skills betray\nme. Nor do I presume to offend people's spiritual sensibilities, as\nI would hope others would not disparage mine.", "\n\nIf I don't think my belief is right and everyone else's belief is wrong,\nthen I don't have a belief. This is simply what belief means. Where does\nthe authority for a belief come from? Nowhere, for a belief is itself\nauthoratative. If I produce authority for a belief, where will I find\nauthority for my belief in the legitimacy of the authority. In short, \nthe mind has to start somewhere. (By the way, the majority of Christians,\ni.e. Catholics, believe in the authority of the Church, and derive the\nauthority of the Bible from its acceptance by the Church.)", "\n\nI'll take a try at this...\n\nFrom the discussions I have been in, and from how *I* have interpreted\nthe bible, I feel that one can pray either way. BUT remember this,\nbefore Jesus, the people talked to God (no other way) and he talked \nback. (audible and dreams, etc.) Today we have the bible to know \nGods will, and we have his son you died for US. He was given as our\nsavior, and while we still do things according to Gods will, we pray\nTHROUGH his son. In the bible it says that if we are not known to \nJesus, we are not known to God. (sorry I do not have the verses\nwith me) So, if we are to be granted eternal life, we must present\nourselves to Jesus first, who will then present us to God.\n\nLeonard\n\n\n\n--", "Brian Ceccarelli wrote (that's me):\n\n\nKent Sandvik responds:\n\n\nI think I see where you are coming from Kent. Jesus doesn't view\nguilt like our modern venacular colors it. \n\n\"Feelings\" have nothing to do with guilt. Feelings arise from the state of \nbeing guilty. Feeling and guilt are mutally exclusive. Feelings are a \nreaction from guilt. Jesus is talking about the guilt state, not the \nreaction. Let me give you an example:\n\nHave you ever made a mistake? Have you ever lied to someone? Even a\nlittle white lie? Have you ever claimed to know something that you really \ndidn't know? Have you ever hated someone? Have you ever been selfish?\nAre you guilty of any one of these? The answer is of course, YES. You\nare guilty. Period. That is it what Jesus is getting at. No big surprise. \nFeelings do not even enter the picture. Consider Jesus's use of the word\n\"guilt\" as how a court uses it.\n\nJesus is concerned that everyone should admit that they are guilty of being\nimperfect. The Bible calls it the state that we are all sinners. We all do\nbad things. Even the most insignficant thing that we do wrong is proof of our \nguilt that we are all sinners. It is it in our nature to do bad things. \nWe are sinners, therefore we do bad things. Being a sinner is fact. It is\nnot a pleasant fact. But it is just a fact. We are not perfect. Calling us\nsinners should have no more emotional charge to you than calling you a\nhuman being. Guilty as charged.\n\n\nYou can handle your guilt in one of two ways: Acknowledge you\nmade a mistake, learn from it, and try to not do it again--in\nthe meantime, not punishing yourself for it: which is the\nway Jesus wants you to handle or it. This is the healthy way.\n\nOr two, the destructive way: put yourself down, slap yourself\nand feel like crap, never forgive yourself, force yourself to\nsay a thousand Hail Marys . . . even to suicide. This the way \nJesus does NOT want us to deal with it. All people fall into this \ncategory to some extent in their lives.\n\nJesus is not in the business of saving us from this guilt\nfeeling. Jesus is in the business of showing us how much he\nloves us despite our guilt. Jesus knows we are guilty. That\nisn't new to him. It is no big deal to him. He just wants you to realize \nthat this sinful nature destroys the relationship between you and him.\nThat is what he wants you to know. Why, because he wants to \nhave your company. You are immensely valuable to him.\nJesus wants a relationship with you, however, in our present\nsinful nature, we are incapable of having this relationship. \n\nGod is perfect. We are not. You cannot fit a square peg into\na round hole. However, God has provided a way for us to\nchange our nature so that we can have a relationship with him.\nGod has provided Jesus, so that whosoever just believes in\nJesus, will have their nature changed. The Holy Spirit will\nmove it. And now divine nature is now within lives our very\nbeing--and us and God communicate with each through his\nunifying Holy Spirit. The benefits of this are endless. For\nwith the divine nature living within us, we can now see\nour imperfections better. We can now head them off at the pass. With\nthe power of the Holy Spirit living in us, we now have his power\nto help us overcome our shortcomings. Because the divine nature lives \nwithin us, we can now understand profound Bible passages that never before\nwe could understand. Because the divine nature now lives within us, we now \nhave authority over demonic forces. And lastly, because the divine \nnature now lives within us, we have eternal life--for the Holy Spirit\nis eternal.\n\nThe relationship with Jesus is of the utmost importance. Because\nit is not what you do in life that qualifies you to belong to\nheavenly kingdom, it is your relationship to the living God.\nRemember what Jesus said at the tail end of Matthew when he\nseparated the \"goats from the sheep\". Many people in the\nlast day will ask him, \"Didn't I prophesy in your name and do\nmiracles, and do good things in your name?\" And what did Jesus say?\n\"Depart from me, for I never *knew* you.\" That is the cornerstone of \nChristianity, Kent. Jesus must know you as his friend. It is your \nrelationship to Jesus. If he is your friend and you are his, you will\nbe counted among those who will share in his inheritance in heaven. \n\n\nGood. It shows that you have a strong self-image--that you\nlove yourself. That is the second greatest commandment Jesus\ntaught. If only more people could do as you do. As I said before, \nin the common english venacular, \"feeling guilty\" has a\ndifferent meaning than the state of guilt.\n\n\nI believe what we all need in our personalities is a lot less ego,\na lot less self-centeredness, and a lot more unconditional love.\n", "\nIs this true? I thought that this was disputed...\n\n\n\n\n\n-- \n-Peter", "\n\n\n >[I'm sort of mystified about how a Christian might respond to this.]\n\n I'll start with a parable.\n \n A Christian woman hires a carpenter to build her a birdhouse. When he comes\nover, they begin talking about religion. \"So you believe that you understand\nGod?\" he asks. \"Yes, I do,\" she replies. \"Then have him build you the \nbirdhouse.\"", "\n\nHi Frank:\n\nI've read it a couple of times and I think that it is excellent.\nChristiandom has needed this book for some time now. I suggest that\n*every* Christian read it.\n\nAccording to Hank, they printed 15 times more than Harvest House\nusually prints for the first printing, and it still sold out in\nthe first week. It is in it's second printing, and most Christian\nbook stores have waiting lists. You can order it directly from CRI\nat 1-800-443-9797.", "existance. \n\n\n***************************************************************************\n\tI just thought it necessary to help defend the point that Jesus \nexisted. Guys: Jesus existed. If he didnt, then you have to say that \nSocrates didnt exist cuz he, like Jesus, has nothing from his hands that \nhave survived. Only Plato and others record his existance. Many others \nrecord Jesus' existance, including the Babylonian Talmud. Sorry guys, the \nargument that Jesus may not have existed is a dead point now. He did. \nWhether he was God or whether there is a God is a completely different \nstory, however. \n*****************************************************************************\n", "\n\nI and many others on a.a have described how we have tried to find god.\nAre you saying our efforts have not been sincere? For all the effort\nI have put in, there has been no outward nor inward change that I can\nperceive. What's a sincerely searching Agnostic or Atheist supposed to\ndo when even the search turns up nothing?\n\n\nHow do you \"accept that which you don't know\"? Do you mean that I must\nbelieve in your god in order to believe in your god?\n", ": You might want to re-think your attitude about the Holocaust after\n: reading Deuteronomy chapter 28.\n\nOn the contrary, after the Holocaust, I would be _very_ cautious about my\ninterpretatoin of Deuteronomy 28. Not everything that happens is in\naccordance with God's will. (You might guess which side of the\npredestination issue I am on.) I will never _assume_ that evil is \npunishment by God, especially when I am speaking of the evil that falls on\n_someone else_. For my own life, I will work to discern the hand of God\nin the evil that befalls _me_.\n\nSee the discussion earlier on Luke 13.", "Let me begin by saying I think this is the world's first religion to use\nthe net as its major recruitment medium. Therefore, even if this\nreligion does not take off, its founding members will be very important\nhistorically as this method of soliciting membership will eventually become \ncommon.\n\nThe basis of this religion is to apply various aspects of current conventional\nmorality to the characters in Genesis and Exodus but assume that the Bible's\naccounts of the facts and historical events is correct.\n\nFor example,\n\nStory of Adam and Eve:\nAdam and Eve are in Garden of Eden naked and ignorant. Have unlimited\nsupply of food provided, but no clothing, jobs, or knowledge. God says\nnot to eat fruit of tree of knowledge. They do anyway, then try to hide \nin bushes. God finds them and forces them out of Garden.\n(There are several different stories on what they were doing while naked in\nthe bushes that might have angered God.)\n\nTraditional Philosophy:\n1. The only reason you need knowledge or a job is to eat. If someone else will\nprovide you with food, then you can be stupid and unemployed and it's OK. This\nis why married women usually didn't work until recent decades.\n2. Authority figures, such as God, whoever was behind the Vietnam War, Hitler \nand slaveowners, are always right and should be blindly followed without \nquestion by ordinary people, who can't make decisions for themselves.\n\nInterpretation of events based on Traditional Philosophy:\nThey were not supposed to eat the fruit. They should have done whatever God\ntold them to. Like small children, they had their needs provided for and were\nobligated to do whatever their \"Father\" said to. Being forced to leave the \nGarden and work in order to obtain food was a punishment.\n\nLessons from Traditional Interpretation:\n1. Ignorance is good. Knowledge is bad, but tempting.\n2. Having food provided for you for nothing (read \"welfare\") is ideal. Get-\nting a job and feeding yourself with what you earn is punishment.\n3. Public nudity is good. Covering up is bad.\n4. Authority figures are intrinsically right. Normal people are dumb and \nshould do whatever they are told without question. They should not think for \nthemselves.\n5. People in subordinate positions are especially obligated to refrain from\nlearning. For example, it should be illegal for slaves to learn to read.\n\n1990's philosophy:\n1. People should seek education and employment outside the home, unless\nnamed \"Hillary Clinton\" or \"Murphy Brown\".\n2. People should use common sense. They should not kill other people \n(binding of Issac, wars, Holocaust, etc.) just because they are told to.\n\nInterpretation of events based on current philosophy:\nThey were supposed to eat the fruit. God gave wanted them to seek knowledge\nrather than be handed it on a silver platter. Once they had gained knowledge\nand (by seeking it) showed their ability to make mature decisions for them-\nselves, they no longer needed to be treated like little children and were \nREWARDED by being allowed into the \"real world.\"\n\nLessons from new interpretation:\n1. Ignorance is bad. Knowledge is good, but must be sought.\n2. Having food provided for you for nothing (read \"welfare\") is at best\na temporary measure. Getting a job and feeding yourself with what you earn\nis ideal.\n3. Public nudity is bad. Covering up is good.\n4. Authority figures are often wrong. Normal people are intelligent and\nshould consider whether the instructions are really a good idea and \"alter\nor abolish\" bad governments. They should think for themselves.\n5. People in subordinate decisions are often discouraged from knowledge\nbut should seek it anyway, and all the harder. For example, poor children \nwithout good schools should work especially hard in order to make a better\nlife for their children (and themselves).\n\nI have tentatively named this new philosophy \"The Church of Eveism\" because\nEve's decision to eat the apple is man[sic]kind's first good decision, instead\nof its first bad one, as traditionally believed. She is therefore clearly\na protagonist. God at first appears evil, for telling people not to seek \nknowledge but on deeper analysis is also a protagonist. As God rewarded the\ndecision to defy him, and provided the tree in the first place, the intention\nand desire were clearly to have the knowledge be obtained, but to delay it \nuntil it was actively sought.\n\n---End serious discussion. Begin humor.--\n\nSave this post to disk (or file server). Someday it will be considered the\nmost important writing since the 10 Commandments. You want an original copy.\n\nStay tuned for the RFD on soc.religion.eveism...\nCan I get a tax deduction for money I donate to this organization?\n\n--Return to serious discussion when posting follow-ups.--", "I read an article about a poll done of students at the Ivy League\nschools in which it was reported that a third of the students\nindentified themselves as atheists. This is a lot higher than among the\ngeneral population. I wonder what the reasons for this discrepancy are?\nIs it because they are more intelligent? Younger? Is this the wave of\nthe future?", "Without quoting at length from the preceeding post, I'd just like\nto say that I find it a much more appropriate way of dealing with\nissues like the Holocaust and Bosnia that asserting that \"God is\npunishing them.\"\n\nThe activity of God is always _redemptive_, which means \"restoring\nwhat has been lost, broken, or distorted.\" So, God does not _will_\nthe brokenness, lostness, distortion, genocide, poverty, etc, but\nis nonetheless capable, willing, and active to restore, heal, mend,\nand redeeem.", "\nBill, I have taken the time to explain that biblical scholars consider the\nJosephus reference to be an early Christian insert. By biblical scholar I mean\nan expert who, in the course of his or her research, is willing to let the\nchips fall where they may. This excludes literalists, who may otherwise be\ndefined as biblical apologists. They find what they want to find. They are\nnot trustworthy by scholarly standards (and others).\n\nWhy an insert? Read it - I have, a number of times. The passage is glaringly\nout of context, and Josephus, a superb writer, had no such problem elsewhere \nin his work. The passage has *nothing* to do with the subject matter in which \nit lies. It suddenly appears and then just as quickly disappears.\n\nUntil you can demonstrate how and why the scholarly community is wrong about\nthe Josephus insert, your \"proof\" is meaningless and it should not be repeated\nhere. What's more, even if Josephus happened to be legitimate, it would \"prove\"\nnothing. Scholars speak of the \"weight of evidence.\" Far more independent\nevidence would be required to validate your claim. Until forthcoming, your\nbelief is based on faith. That's OK, but you exceed your rights when you pass\nfaith off as fact.\n\nAs for the gospels, there are parallels, but there are also glaring\ninconsistencies and contradictions. Shouldn't a perfect canon be perfect? \nShouldn't there be absolutely no room for debate? I suggest you read _Gospel \nFictions_ by Randel Helms, and _The Unauthorized Version_ by Robin Fox (for \nHerb Huston, no known kinship or familial relationship, but we do indeed share \nan evolutionary ancestry).\n\nThe fact that there are inconsistencies, gaps and contradictions does not deny\nyour position. On the other hand, neither do the gospels \"prove\" your faith. \nIndependent evidence is necessary, and I know of none (which we have already\ndiscussed, and so far you have not provided any). Until then, its faith. \nMoreover, you have committed a fundamental error in logic. You have attempted\nto \"prove\" your claim with that which you want to prove. Its no different than\nsaying \"I am right because I say so.\" \n\nYour logic is full of circles. It reminds me a bit of the 1910 Presbyterian \nGeneral Assembly. The assembly defined five fundamentals (this is where\n\"fundamentalist\" came from) of orthodox Protestant Christianity, to wit: 1)\nJesus performed miracles, 2) Jesus was born of a virgin, 3) Jesus was bodily\nresurrected, 4) Jesus' crucifixion atoned for human sin, and - here is the\nclincher - 5) the bible is the inerrant word of God. Presbyterians construe\n\"inerrant\" broadly as spritually inerrant. Fundamentalists take the\nfirst four as literally true, and then validate them with a literally inerrant\nbible, which contains the first four, and which is the only thing known to \ncontain the first four. \n\nSmoke and mirrors and wands and hand waving if ever there was!\n\nIts faith, Bill. You don't have any more or better truths than anyone else. \nWhatever works for you. Just don't foist it on others. \n\nRegards,", "\n\nLets talk about principles. If we accept that God sets the\nstandards for what ought to be included in Scripture - then we\ncan ask:\n1. Is it authoritative?\n2. Is it prophetic?\n3. Is it authentic?\n4. Is it dynamic?\n5. Is it received, collected, read and used?\n\nOn these counts, the apocrapha falls short of the glory of God.\nTo quote Unger's Bible Dictionary on the Apocrapha:\n1. They abound in historical and geographical inaccuracies and\nanachronisms.\n2. They teach doctrines which are false and foster practices\nwhich are at variance with sacred Scripture.\n3. They resort to literary types and display an artificiality of\nsubject matter and styling out of keeping with sacred Scripture.\n4. They lack the distinctive elements which give genuine\nScripture their divine character, such as prophetic power and\npoetic and religious feeling.\n\n\nBut the problem with this argument lies in the assumption that\nthe Hebrew canon included the Apocrapha in the first place, and\nit wasn't until the sixteenth century that Luther and co. threw\nthem out. The Jewish council you mentioned previously didn't\naccept them, so the reformation protestants had good historical\nprecedence for their actions. Jerome only translated the\napocrapha under protest, and it was literally 'over his dead\nbody' that it was included in the catholic canon.\n\n\nHow do you then view the words: \"I warn everyone who hears the\nwords of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to\nthem, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.\nAnd if anyone takes away from this book the prophecy, God will\ntake away from him his share in the tree of life and in the\nholy city\" (Rev 22.18-9)\nSurely this sets the standard and not just man-made traditions.\n\nIt is also noteworthy to consider Jesus' attitude. He had no\nargument with the pharisees over any of the OT canon (John\n10.31-6), and explained to his followers on the road to Emmaus \nthat in the law, prophets and psalms which referred to him - the \nOT division of Scripture (Luke 24.44), as well as in Luke 11.51\ntaking Genesis to Chronicles (the jewish order - we would say\nGenesis to Malachi) as Scripture.\n\n\nI am not familiar with the book. \nSome other arguments you might like to consider are found in\nChapter 3 of Josh McDowell's Evidence That Demands A Verdict.", "\nMichael> The kind of interpretation I see as \"incredibly perverse\" is\nMichael> that applied to the story of Sodom as if it were a blanket\nMichael> equation of homosexual behavior and rape. Since Christians\nMichael> citing the Bible in such a context should be presumed to have\nMichael> at least READ the story, it amounts to slander -- a charge\nMichael> that homosexuality == rape -- to use that against us.\n\nand\n\nMichael> It is just\nMichael> as wrong (though slightly less incendiary, so it's a\nMichael> secondary argument from the 'phobic contingent) to equate\nMichael> homosexuality with such behavior as to equate it with the\nMichael> rape of God's messengers.\n\nLet's review the Sodom and Gomorrah story briefly. It states\nclearly that the visitors were angels. But \"all the men from every\npart of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the\nhouse. They called to Lot, `Where are the *men* who came to \nyou tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex \nwith them.' \" \n\nFor the rest of the story the angels are referred to by the men\nof Sodom and by Lot as *men*. Furthermore we know from Gen 18:20,21\nthat the Lord had already found Sodom guilty of grievous sin--before\nthe angels visited the city. It is clear that the grievous sin\nof Sodom and Gomorrah involved homosexual sex. It appears that\nthe men had become so inflamed in their lust that they had\ngroup orgies in the public square--which simply indicates \nthe extremity of their depravity. It does not show that lesser \ndegrees of homosexuality are not sinful, as Michael would have us\nbelieve.\n\nUltimately our understanding of God's will for sexuality comes from\nthe creation story--not solely on the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. He\ncreated us male and female, and instituted marriage as a relationship\nbetween one male and one female, \"Therefore a man will leave his\nfather and mother, and be united with his wife, and they will become\none flesh.\" This marriage relationship is the only sexual\nrelationship which God blesses and sanctions. He regulates and\nprotects the marriage of man and woman, and even uses it as a picture\nof the relationship between himself and his church. But we find not\none word of blessing or regulation for a sexual relationship between \ntwo men, or between two women.\n\nEverything else that we find in the Bible about sexuality derives from\nor expresses God's will in instituting and blessing marriage. Thus\nthe Levitical code, which was given only to the Jews, forbade incest,\nhomosexuality, bestiality; the Ten Commandments forbade adultery and\nthe coveting of our neighbor's wife; other commandments forbade rape.\nThe men of Sodom and Gomorrah were regarded as sexually immoral and\nperverse (Jude 7) because they abandoned and/or polluted the marriage\nrelationship. Thus also Paul regarded homosexuality as `unnatural',\nRomans 1:26,27--not because this was simply Paul's opinion,\nbut because it was contrary to God's purpose in creating us\nmale and female.\n \nMichael> Christians, no doubt very sincere ones, keep showing up here\nMichael> and in every corner of USENET and the world, and ALL they\nMichael> ever do is spout these same old verses (which they obviously\nMichael> have never thought about, maybe never even read), in TOTAL\nMichael> ignorance of the issues raised, slandering us with the vilest\nMichael> charges of child abuse or whatever their perfervid minds can\nMichael> manage to conjure up, tossing out red herrings with (they\nMichael> suppose) great emotional force to cause readers to dismiss\nMichael> our witness without even taking the trouble to find out what\nMichael> it is.\n\nReally, have you no better response to `slander' than more\nslander?", "\n But no one (or at least, not many people) are trying to pass off God\nas a scientific fact. Not so with Kirlian photography. I'll admit that\nit is possible that some superior intelligence exists elsewhere, and if\npeople want to label that intelligence \"God\", I'm not going to stop\nthem. Anyway, let's _not_ turn this into a theological debate. ;-)\n\n\n Read alt.fan.robert.mcelwaine sometime. I've never been so\nclosed-minded before subscribing to that group. :)\n", "I don't know if this is the sort of thing you guys like\nto discuss. I guess it falls into the area of apologetics.\n\nThis is a question that seems to pop up now and again in\nconversations with non-christians. It usually appears in\nthe following sort of unqualified statement:\n\"Well you know that religion has caused more wars than\nanything else\"\nIt bothers me that I cannot seem to find a satisfactory\nresponse to this. After all if our religion is all about\npeace and love why have there been so many religious wars?\n Personally I am of the view that religion has often been\nused as an excuse to instigate wars often to disguise\nnational ambitions but I would love to hear what anyone\nelse has to say about this subject.\n Thanks in advance\n Andrew J Fraser\n\n(If we're thinking in terms of history, the Crusades,\nNorthern Ireland, Yugoslavia(?) come immediately to mind)\n\nnorthern Ireland, Yugoslavia (? \n \n-- \n=========================================================================", "I'm wondering if anyone knows the answer to a rather trivial question which\nI've been thinking about: What was the process used to divide the Bible into\nverses. I believe Jerome divided the New Testament, but I've never seen any\ndiscussion of *how* he did this. It seems rather arbitrary, as opposed to, for\nexample, making each sentence a verse.\n", null ], "marker": { "opacity": 0.5, "size": 5 }, "mode": "markers+text", "name": "3_the_of_that", "text": [ "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", 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", "dtype": "f4" } }, { "hoverinfo": "text", "hovertext": [ "(Disclaimer: I'm a sufferer, not a doctor.)\n\nI'm not sure there's a really sharp distinction between allergic and\nvasomotor rhinitis. Basically, vasomotor rhinitis means your nose is\nstuffy when it has no reason to be (not even an identifiable allergy).\n\nDecongestants and steroid sprays work for vasomotor rhinitis. Also,\nI can get surprising relief from purely superficial measures such as\nsaline moisturizing spray and moisturizing gel.\n", "\nAhhh, the classic Truth By Blatant Assertion technique. Too bad it's\nso demonstrably false. Take a look at Great Britain sometime for a \nnice history on drug criminalization. The evidence there shows that\nduring periods of time when drugs (such as heroin) were illegal, crime\nwent up and people did die from bad drugs. During times when drugs\nwere legalized, those trends were reversed.\n\n\nNow this is a great example of an ironclad proof. Gosh, I'm convinced.\n( :-} for the humor impaired). First, assert something for which you\nhave no evidence, then dodge requests for proof by claiming to know\nwhat this group was intended for. As to research, if you'd done any\nat all, you'd realize that there is plenty of reason to believe that\nlegalizing drugs will have many benefits to society. There are some\nplausible arguments against it, too, but they aren't enough to convince\nme that criminalization of drugs is the answer. I'm willing to be\nconvinced I'm wrong, but I seriously doubt the likes of you can do it.\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\n...Dale Cook \"Any town having more churches than bars has a serious\n social problem.\" ---Edward Abbey\nThe opinions are mine only (i.e., they are NOT my employer's)", "\n\nI am told (by the person who I care a lot about and who I am worried\nis going to start putting his health and money into homeopathy without\nreally knowing what he is getting into and who is the reason I posted\nin the first place about homeopathy) that in Britain homeopathy is\navailable on the National Health Service and that there are about 6000\nGPs who use homeopathic practices. True? False? What?\n\nHave there been any important and documented investigations into\nhomeopathic principles?\n\nI was reading a book on homeopathy over the weekend. I turned to the\nsection on the principles behind homeopathic medicine, and two\nparagraphs informed me that homeopaths don't feel obliged to provide\nany sort of explanation. The author stated this with pride, as though\nit were some sort of virtue! Why am I sceptical about homeopathy? Is\nit because I am a narrow-minded bigot, or is it because homeopathy\nreally looks more like witch-doctory than anything else?", "\nI know from personal experience that men CAN get yeast infections. I \nget rather nasty ones from time to time, mostly in the area of the\nscrotum and the base of the penis. They're nowhere near as dangerous\nfor me as for many women, but goddamn does it hurt in the summertime!\nEven in the wintertime, when I sweat I get really uncomfy down there. The\nbest thing I can do to keep it under control is keep my weight down and\nkeep cool down there. Shorts in 60 degree weather, that kind of thing. And\nof course some occasional sun. ", "Someone please help me. I am searching to find out (as many others may)\nan absolute 'cure' to removing all detectable traces of marijuana from\na persons body. Is there a chemical or natural substance that can be\ningested or added to urine to make it undetectable in urine analysis.\nIf so where can these substances be found. \n\n If you know this information, please Email me directly\n \n Thank You Kindly for your support,\n", "\n\n\nActually, this was a school in England. This same biology teacher also\ntold me that the reason that stars twinkle is that the small spot of\nlight on the retina sometimes falls between the light recepive cells.\nSo his info was suspect from the start. ", "\nAssuming one has been cultured as having a throat laden with\nneiseria meningococcus and given (and taken) a course of ERYC \nwithout the culture becoming negative, should one worry about\nbeing a carrier? ", "Not sure of this but I think some millipedes cause a toxic reaction (sting?\nSo I would not assume that they are not dangerous merely on the basis of \nvegetarianism, after all wasps are vegetarian too.\ndnc.\n", "\nWell, let me put it this way, based on my own experience. A\ngeneral practitioner with no training in infectious diseases,\nby establishing links to the \"Lyme community\", treating patients\nwho come to him wondering about lyme or having decided they\nhave lyme as if they did, saying that diseases such as MS\nare probably spirochetal, if not Lyme, giving talks at meetings\nof users groups, validating the feelings of even delusional\npatients, etc. This GP can go from being a run-of-the-mill\n$100K/yr GP to someone with lots of patients in the hospital\nand getting expensive infusions that need monitoring in his\noffice, and making lots of bread. Also getting the adulation\nof many who believe his is their only hope (if not of cure,\nthen of control) and seeing his name in publications put out\nby support groups, etc. This is a definite temptation.\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "\nThat would be a very expensive toxin indeed!", "\nSperm deposited near the entrance of the vagina has been known to cause\npregnancy, even in the presence of a hymen. I doubt that sperm could make \nit through a layer of cloth then find the right path to a waiting ovum,\nbut it might be possible.\n\nSo, it is possible for a woman to be both virgin and pregnant.\nAlso, some hymens are sufficiently loose to allow near-normal intercourse\nwithout rupturing. The problem when investigating these phenomenae is,\nof course, getting an honest account of what exactly happened.", "\nGlutamate is not an essential amino acid. People can survive quite well\nwithout ever eating any.\n-- \nKeith Lynch, kfl@access.digex.com", "I am looking for current sources for lists of all the home\nmedical tests currently legally available.\nI believe this trend of allowing tests at home where\nfeasible, decreased medical costs by a factor of 10 or\nmore and allows the patient some time and privacy to\nconsider the best action from the results of such tests.\nIn fact I believe home medical tests and certain basic\ntests for serious diseases such as cancer, heart disease,\nshould be offered free to the American public.\nThis could actually help to reduce national medical costs\nsince many would have an earlier opportunity to know\nabout and work toward recuperation or cure.\nMike Romano\n\n", "I have a BACK MACHINE and have had one since January. While I have not \nfound it to be a panacea for my back pain, I think it has helped somewhat. \nIt MAINLY acts to stretch muscles in the back and prevent spasms associated\nwith pain. I am taking less pain medication than I was previously. \n The folks at BACK TECHNOLOGIES are VERY reluctant to honor their return \npolicy. They extended my \"warranty\" period rather than allow me to return \nthe machine when, after the first month or so, I was not thrilled with it. \nThey encouraged me to continue to use it, abeit less vigourously. \n Like I said, I can't say it is a cure-all, but it keeps me stretched out\nand I am in less pain.", "Can anybody out there provide me with any advice concerning the\nfollowing two health problems:\n\nFirst, I was recently diagnosed (using a UGI series) as having a\nSchatzki ring and small sliding hiatal hernia. As I understand it,\nthe hernia is a relatively minor problem, though I do occasionally\nhave some nasty heartburn that is probably related to it. The Schatzki\nring, on the other hand, is causing swallowing difficulty. In particular,\nif I'm not careful about eating slowly, and thoroughly chewing food,\nfood occasionally gets \"stuck\" before reaching my stomach. This results\nin a period of painful spasms as the food attempts to pass the obstruction.\nFortunately, the food has always managed to pass, but this is annoying,\nand causes frequent discomfort.\n\nMy doctor wants to \"dilate\" the ring using the\nfollowing procedure: use an endoscope to examine the esophagus and stomach\nfor any inflammation, then cut through the ring and dilate it by passing\nsome kind of balloon or something thru the esophagous. I would like to know\nif anyone out there has had this (or a similar) procedure done-if so,\nwas it painful, successful, etc. Also, can anyone comment on\nsafety, advisability, and success rate of this procedure? Has it become\na common procedure? I am kind of leery of having such an invasive-sounding\nprocedure performed for a (currently) non-threatening condition such as this,\nespecially considering the possible side effects (bleeding, perforation,\nreaction to anesthesia).\n\nThe second issue: for the past 3-4 years I have had a large number\nof \"extra\" heartbeats. In particular, during the past month or so there\nhas been a dramatic increase-a Holter monitor recently showed 50 PVC's in 24\nhrs, along with a few PAC's. (Many days, there are far more than this,\nhowever-five to ten per hour). All of them were isolated, and the cardiologist\nindicated that such a number was \"normal\". It certainly doesn't\nfeel normal. In the past there have also been a couple of episodes of\nextended \"runs\" of these beats, one of which lasted long enough to cause\nsevere light-headedness. I am relatively young (30-ish), thin and in good\nhealth (recent bloodtests were all normal), and do not smoke, use drugs or\ncaffeine, etc. I'm willing to accept the extra beats as \"normal\", but don't\nwant to ignore them if they might be some kind of warning symptom. The number\nof PVC's seems to increase throughout the day, and with exercise (or something\nas simple as climbing some stairs). Also, if I get up after sitting or lying\ndown for a while, I tend to get a couple of extra beats. Could they possibly\nbe related to the esophagous problems? Both seemed to develop at about the\nsame time.\n\nThanks for any help/advice!\n", "\n\n\nThe term arrhythmia is usually used to encompass a wide range of abnormal\nheart rhythms (cardiac dysrhythmias). Some of them are very serious\nwhile others are completely benign. Having \"a few irregular beats\"\non an EKG could be serious depending on what those beats were and\nwhen they occurred, or could be of no significance.\n\nLow blood potassium levels probably predispose people with underlying\nheart disease to develop arrhythmias. Very low potassium levels are\nclearly dangerous, but it is not clear how much of a problem\nlow-end-of-normal levels are: a lot of cardiologists seem to treat\nanyone with even a mildly low-normal potassium level.\n", "I understand the when one is in orbit, the inward force of gravity at\none's center of mass is exactly balanced by the outward centrifugal\nforce from the orbiting motion, resulting in weightlessness.\n\n I want to know what weightlessness actually FEELS like. For example, is\nthere a constant sensation of falling? And what is the motion sickness\nthat some astronauts occasionally experience? \n\n Please reply only if you are either a former or current astronaut, or \nsomeone who has had this discussion first-hand with an astronaut. \nThanks!\n", "I've had cold sores in the past. But they have always been in the \ncorner of my mouth. Recently, I've had what appears to be\na cold sore, but on my lower lip in the middle (above the chin).\n\nCan cold sores appear anywhere around the mouth (or body)?\n\nIs there a medical term for cold sore?\n", "Does anyone know if either theophylline or ephedrine, or the two in\ncombination, can reduce the body's ability to make use of \navailable water? I had kind of an odd experience on a group hike\nrecently, becoming dehyrated after about 9 hours of rigorous\nhiking despite having brought 1 1/2 gallons of water (c. 6 liters).\nI drank close to twice as much as anyone else, and no one else was\ndehydrated. I don't think general physical condition was an issue,\nsince I was in at least the middle of the pack in terms of general\nstamina, so far as I could tell.", "\n\nYup. By the way, what planet are you from, and once you got here, did\nyou encounter those prejudices against foreign medical graduates?", "My mom has just been diagnosed with cystic breast disease -- a big\nrelief, as it was a lump that could have been cancer. Her doctor says\nshe should go off caffeine and chocolate for 6 months, as well as\nstopping the estrogen she's been taking for menopause-related reasons.\nShe's not thrilled with this, I think especially because she just gave\nup cigarettes -- soon she won't have any pleasures left! Now, I thought\nI'd heard that cystic breasts were common and not really a health risk.\nIs this accurate? If so, why is she being told to make various\nsacrifices to treat something that's not that big of a deal?\n\nThanks for any information.\n\n-- Chris\n\n-- \nblack@sybase.com", "\nThat study which was in the NEJM, I think, noted that the frequency\nof heart surgery on patients over seventy increase with income in\nCalifornia (I guess richer people have more heart disease in \nCalifornia -) ) whereas the frequency of surgery on patients over\nseventy in Canada was relatively uniform across income distribution.\nHeart surgery was more frequent in California, but mortality and\noutcomes were essentially the same.\n\n\nThe only potential problem I see with the private MRI facilty in Calgary is the\nself-referral problem to the facility for the doctors who have a financial\ninterest in it, which is basically unethical...but in Canada because\nof our small population, there is likely only to be a few private\nfacilities involving only a small number of doctors,\nand thus I don't think the self-referral problem, which is an epidemic in the\nUS, could ever get out of hand here.\n\n\nIt is an experiment that will be certainly be watched carefully.\n\n\nWhat likely happened is the sponsors of the private MRI which include\ndoctors anticipated that Alberta would need more MRI's, and instead\nof waiting for the health planners to realize they needed another\none or two, saw a business opportunity...where they would have a\nsecure business from the public insurance side of things, and they\ncould supplement people and businesses who want to pay cash.", "How long does it take a smoker's lungs to clear of the tar after quitting? \nDoes your chances of getting lung cancer decrease quickly or does it take\na considerable amount of time for that to happen?\n", "tes:\n\n\nA friend of mine who smoke pot every day and last Tuesday took 5 hits of acid \nis still having trouble \"aiming\" for the bowl when he takes a dump. Don't as \nme how, I just have seen the results.\n\nBoy, I really wish we we cut the drug war and have more people screwed up in \nthe head.\n\n\n\n", "\n\nIt's O- that is especially useful. Still, he isn't punishing the\nRed Cross but some O+ person that needed his blood and couldn't\nget it. You are right, nagging probably won't help.\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "MSG is common in many food we eat, including Chinese (though some oriental\nrestaurants might put a tad too much in them). I've noticed that when I\ngo out and eat in most of the Chinese food restaurants, I will usually get\na slight headache and an ununsual thirst afterwards. This happens to many\nof my friends and relatives too. And, heh, we eat Chinese food all the\ntime at home :) (but we don't use MSG when we're cooking for ourselves)\n\nSo, when we put one and one together, it can be safely assumed that\nMSG may cause some allergic reactions in some people.\n\nStick with natural things. MSG doesn't do body any good (and possibly\nharms, for that matter). So, why bother with it? Taste food as it should\nbe tasted, and don't cloud the flavor with an imaginary cloak of MSG.\n\n-michael\n", "Ah, yes, the big chunks down in the sump. The solution is simple. Sort of\nlike the advice my Aunt always gave -- never scratch your ear with anything\nexcept your elbow.", "\nWho knows in this legal climate, but there is tremendous legal precendent\nfor forcibly quarantining TB patients in sanitariums. 100 yrs ago\nit was done all the time. It has been done sporadically all along\nin patients who won't take their medicine. If you have TB you\nmay find yourself under surveilence of the Public Health Department\nand you may find they have the legal power to insist you make your\nclinic visits.\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "As an animal science student, I know that a number of animals transfer\nimmunoglobin to thier young through thier milk. In fact, a calf _must_\nhave a sufficient amount of colostrum (early milk) within 12 hours to\neffectively develop the immune system, since for the first (less than)\n24 hours the intestines are \"open\" to the IG passage. My question is,\ndoes this apply to human infants to any degree?", "[synopsis] Young man with inguianl hernia on one side, repaired, now has\nnew hernia on other side. What gives, he asks? [and he continues...] \n\nThere is the possibility that there is some degree of constipation causing\nchronic straining which has caused the bowel movements. The classic \nproblems that are supposed to be looked for in someone with a hernia are\nconstipation, chronic cough, colon cancer (and you're not too young for\nthat) and sitting for long periods of time at the computer, reading news.\n\nGood Luck with your surgery!", "\n[Partial deletion]\n\nNice explanation except that it isn't N-hydroxylation that causes the\nformation of the N-acetyl-p-benzoquinone imine (NAPQI), but rather a\ndirect two-electron oxidation. In addition, there is one school of thought\nthat contends that oxidative stress rather than arylation of protein\nis the more critical factor in the hapatotoxcity of acetaminophen. \n\nAs far as drug toxicities go, acetaminophen has and continues to be one\nof the most intensely scrutinized. An excellent recent review of the topic\ncan be found in: \n\n\tVermeulen, Bessems and Van de Straat. \t\n\tMolecular Aspects of Paracetamol-induced hepatotoxicity and its\n\tMechanism-Based Prevention. Drug Metabolism Reviews, 24(3) 367-\n\t407 (1992).\n\n\t(Acetaminophen is known as paracetamol in Europe)\n\nI couldn't agree with you more about what an awful way to die a toxic\ndose of acetaminophen causes. I've heard a number of descriptions by\nphysicians associated with poison control centers, and they describe a\nlingering very painful death. ", "\n\n\nWhat do you mean \"more comfortable putting it up to.\" That seems a bit\nhard to evaluate. At least for me it is. \n\nStare straight Point with both hands together and clasp so that only the\npointer fingers are pointing straight forward to a a spot on the wall about\neight feet away. First stare at the spot with both eyes open. Now\nclose your left eye. Now open your left eye. Now close your right eye.\nnow open your right eye.\n\nIf the image jumped more when you closed your right eye, you are right\neye dominant.\n\nIf the image jumped more when you closed your left eye, you are left eye\ndominant.\n", "\nYeah, hypothermia is MUCH more detrimemtal to your judgement and reactions\nthan people realise. I wish I had the patience to stop when I should. One\nday I'll pay for it....", "someone wrote in expressing concern about getting AIDS from acupuncture\n needles.....\n\nUnless your friend is sharing fluids with their acupuncturist who \nthemselves has AIDS..it is unlikely (not impossible) they will get AIDS \nfrom acupuncture needles. Generally, even if accidently inoculated, the normal\nimmune response should be enough to effectively handle the minimal contaminant \ninvolved with acupuncture needle insertion. \n\nMost acupuncturists use disposable needles...use once and throw away. They \ndo this because you are not the only one concerned about transmission of \ndiseases via this route...so it's good business to advertise \"disposable needlesused here.\" These needles tend to be of a lower quality however, \nbeing poorly manufactured and too \"sharp\" in my opinion. They tend to snag bloodvessels on insertion compared to higher quality needles. \nIf I choose to use acupuncture for a given complaint, that patient will get \ntheir own set of new needles which are sterilized between treatments. \nThe risk here for hepatitis, HIV, etc. transmission is that I could mistakenly \nuse an infected persons needles accidently on the wrong \npatient...but clear labelling and paying attention all but eliminates \nthis risk. Better quality needles tend to \"slide\" past vessels and \nnerves avoiding unpleasant painful snags..and hematomas...so I use them. \nAcupuncture needles come in many lengths and thicknesses...but they are all \nsolid when compared to their injection-style cousins. In China, herbal solutionsand western pharmaceuticals are occasionally injected into \nmeridian points purported to have TCM physiologic effects and so require \nthe same hollow needles used for injecting fluid medicine. This means...thinkingtiny...that a samll amount of tissue, the diameter of the needle bore, will be \ninjected into the body as it would be in a typical \"shot.\" when the skin is \npuntured. On the other hand when the solid \nacupuncture needle is inserted, the skin tends to \"squeeze\" the needle \nfrom the tip to the level of insertion such that any 'cooties' that \nhaven't been schmeared away with alcohol before insertion, tend to remain \non the surface of the skin minimizing invasion from the exterior. \n\nOf course in TCM...the body's exterior is protected by the Wei (Protective) Qi..so infection is unlikely....or in other words...there is a normal inflammatory \nand immune response that accompanies tissue damage incurred at the puncture \nsite.\n\n\nWhile I'm fairly certain your friend will not have a transferable disease \ntransmitted to them via acupuncture needle insertion, I would like to know for \nwhat complaint they have consulted the acupuncturist...not to know if it would be harmful.. but to know if it would be helpful. ", "\n\nExperimental Lyme Disease in Dogs Produces Arthritis and Persistant Infection,\nThe Journal of Infectious Diseases, March 1993, 167:651-664\n", "I live at sea-level, and am called-upon to travel to high-altitude cities\nquite frequently, on business. The cities in question are at 7000 to 9000\nfeet of altitude. One of them especially is very polluted...\n\nOften I feel faint the first two or three days. I feel lightheaded, and\nmy heart seems to pound a lot more than at sea-level. Also, it is very\ndry in these cities, so I will tend to drink a lot of water, and keep\naway from dehydrating drinks, such as those containing caffeine or alcohol.\n\nThing is, I still have symptoms. How can I ensure that my short trips there\n(no, I don't usually have a week to acclimatize) are as comfortable as possible?\nIs there something else that I could do?\n\nA long time ago (possibly two years ago) there was a discussion here about\naltitude adjustment. Has anyone saved the messages?\n\nMany thanks,", "\n\nI recall reading in the recently revised edition of the \"Yeast Connection\"\nthat there is indeed work by researchers to do this. Of course, they are\nworking on the theory that candida overbloom with penetration into mucus\nmembrane tissue with associated \"mild\" inflammatory response can and does\noccur in a large number of people. If you reject this \"yeast hypothesis\",\nthen I'd guess you'd view this research as one more wasteful and quixotic\nendeavor. Stay tuned.\n\nJon Noring\n\n-- \n\nCharter Member --->>> INFJ Club.", "Also, don't forget that it's better for your health to enjoy your steak\nthan to resent your sprouts ...", "FYI...I just posted this on alt.psychoactives as a response to\nwhat the group is for......\n\n\nA note to the users of alt.psychoactives....\n\nThis group was originally a takeoff from sci.med. The reason for\nthe formation of this group was to discuss prescription psychoactive\ndrugs....such as antidepressents(tri-cyclics, Prozac, Lithium,etc),\nantipsychotics(Melleral(sp?), etc), OCD drugs(Anafranil, etc), and\nso on and so forth. It didn't take long for this group to degenerate\ninto a psudo alt.drugs atmosphere. That's to bad, for most of the\nserious folks that wanted to start this group in the first place have\nleft and gone back to sci.med, where you have to cypher through\nhundreds of unrelated articles to find psychoactive data.\n\nIt was also to discuss real-life experiences and side effects of\nthe above mentioned.\n\nOh well, I had unsubscribed to this group for some time, and I decided\nto check it today to see if anything had changed....nope....same old\nnine or ten crap articles that this group was never intended for.\n\nI think it is very hard to have a meaningfull group without it\nbeing moderated...too bad.\n\nOh well, obviously, no one really cares.\n\nBill Claussen\n\n\nWould anyone be interested in starting a similar moderated group?", "\nStimulation of the vagus nerve slows the heart and drops the blood\npressure.\n\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "The idea of the card is bull in and of its self, but I'm curious to know, do \nthey plan on making it a requirement to *always* have it on you, or is it \nonly going to be required to be *presented* when trying to ge medical aid?\n\nBTW, anybody planning on shaving Hillary's head to look for *666*? 8^)\n\nLater Dave,\nDays\n\n^^^^^^^^\nGoverment logic or just the Clintons?\n\n", "\nThere are people who have adapted to high altitudes in the Andes and in\nTibet. I suspect that it took them several generations to make the\nadaptation because Europeans had difficulty making the adaptation. They\nhad to send the women to a lower altitude when they were pregnant in order\nto insure sucessful childbirth.\n\n\nAnother factor you should consider is the X-ray opacity of the atmosphere \nin case of stellar flares, the uv opacity is also important because uv \nradiation can kill or damage microbes, plants, and animals. ", "\n Path: news.larc.nasa.gov!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!bu.edu!dozonoff\n From: dozonoff@bu.edu (david ozonoff)\n Newsgroups: sci.med\n Date: 21 Apr 93 16:18:19 GMT\n References: \n Sender: news@bu.edu\n Lines: 22\n X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5\n\n : \n {much deleted]\n : \n : \n : The fact that this happened while eating two sugar coated cereals made\n : by Kellog's makes me think she might be having an allergic reaction to\n : something in the coating or the cereals. Of the four of us in our\n : immediate family, Kathryn shows the least signs of the hay fever, running\n : nose, itchy eyes, etc. but we have a lot of allergies in our family history\n : including some weird food allergies - nuts, mushrooms. \n : \n\n Many of these cereals are corn-based. After your post I looked in the\n literature and located two articles that implicated corn (contains\n tryptophan) and seizures. The idea is that corn in the diet might\n potentiate an already existing or latent seizure disorder, not cause it.\n Check to see if the two Kellog cereals are corn based. I'd be interested.\n --\n David Ozonoff, MD, MPH\t\t |Boston University School of Public Health\n dozonoff@med-itvax1.bu.edu\t |80 East Concord St., T3C\n (617) 638-4620\t\t\t |Boston, MA 02118 \n\n\nA couple of folks have suggested the \"corn connection\". In the five month\nperiod between the two seizures, my daughter had eaten a fair amount of\nKix and Berry Berry Kix in the mornings and never had a problem. I checked\nthe labels and the first ingredient is corn. She has also never had a problem\neating corn or corn on the cob but of course, that is usually later in the day\nwith a full stomach so the absorption would not be so high. I do believe that\nFrost Flakes have corn in them but I will have to check the Fruit Loops. But\nthe fact that she has eaten this other corny cereal in the morning makes me\nwonder.\n\nThanks for checking into this. All information at this point is valuable to me.\n\nSharon", "\nIt likely has nothing to do with \"chunks of plaque\" but it sounds like\nyou may have a neurovascular compromise to your arm and you need medical\nattention *before* doing any more weight lifting. \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "agents\nof\n\nThe original poster did not say why his mother had been in hospital\nbut I can answer a few general points.\n\nElderly patients may exhibit a marked difficulty in coping after\nbeing in hospital for a few days. The drastic change of environment\nwill often unmask how marginally they have been coping at home. Even\nyoung people find the change unsettling.\n\nThough we have thought that this decrement in function after - say -\nanaesthesia and surgery for a fractured hip (a common event in the\nelderly) was due to anaesthesia there is good evidence that the\nchange of situation is much more important. Some hospitals have\ntried a 'rapid transit' system for hip fractures, aiming to have the\npatient back at home within 24 hours of admission. The selection of\nthe anaesthetic has no effect on the ability to discharge these\npatients early.\n\nAnaesthetists who work with the elderly (which is almost all of us)\ngenerally take care to tailor the choice and dose of drugs used to\nthe individual patient. Even so, there is some evidence that full\nmental recovery may take a surprisingly long time to return. This is\nthe sort of thing which is detected by setting quite difficult\ntasks, not the gross change that the original poster noted.\n\nHaloperidol (Haldol TM) is a long acting drug. The plasma half life\nof the drug is up to 35 hours. If the decanoate (a sort of slow\nrelease formulation) is used it may be weeks. The elderly are\nsensitive to haloperidol for a number of reasons. Without knowing\nmore it is hard to comment.", "\nI think in Illinois venereal disease (the old ones, not AIDS) was included.\nSyphillis was, for sure.\n\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "I'm surprised nobody mentioned that twitching of the eyelid can be a\nsymptom of an infection, especially if it also itches or stings.\n(It happened to me, and antibiotic eyedrops cleared it up nicely.)\n", "\n\nTwo approaches that I've used: Tofranil, 50 mg qhs, Naproxen 250mg bid.\nThe Naproxen doesn't seem to be as bad as things like Tylenol in promoting\nthe analgesic abuse Headache. DHE IV infusions for about 3 days (in\nhospital). Cold turkey is the only way I think. Tapering doesn't\nhelp. I wouldn't know how you can do this without your doctor. I haven't\nseen anyone successfully do it alone. Doesn't mean it can't be done.\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "It just received FDA approval a few months ago. I have a\nprescription which I haven't had to use yet. I believe the\ncompany [Glaxol] is developing an oral form. At this stage, one\nmust inject the drug into one's muscle. The doctor said that\nwithin 30 minutes, the migraine is gone for good! \n", "\nI'm sorry about your friend. Really. But this anecdote does nothing to\njustify the \"war on drugs\". If anything, it demonstrates that the \"war\"\nis a miserable failure. What it demonstrates is that people will take\ndrugs if they want to, legal or not. Perhaps if your friend were taking\nlegal, regulated drugs under a doctors supervision he might not be in the\nposition he's in now.\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\n...Dale Cook \"Any town having more churches than bars has a serious\n social problem.\" ---Edward Abbey\nThe opinions are mine only (i.e., they are NOT my employer's)", "\n It's worse than that -- there *is* no such thing as\n a double-blind study on the effects of MSG, by\n virtue of the fact that MSG changes the taste of food in\n a characteristic way that is detectable by the subject and\n that cannot be duplicated by a placebo.\n\nCommon! You can easily disguise to flavor of MSG by putting it in a\ncapsule. Then, the study becomes a double blind of MSG capsules\nagainst control capsules (containing exactly the same contents minus\nthe MSG).\n--", "\n\nGood story, Chuck, but it won't wash. I have read the NY Acad Sci\none (and have it). This AM I couldn't find any reference to\n\"weight rebound\". I'm not saying it isn't there, but since you\ncited it, it is your responsibility to show me where it is in there.\nThere is no index. I suspect you overstepped your knowledge base,\nas usual.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "I need advice with a situation which occurred between me and a physican\nwhich upset me. I saw this doctor for a problem with recurring pain.\nHe suggested medication and a course of treatment, and told me that I\nneed to call him 7 days after I begin the medication so that he may\nmonitor its effectiveness, as well as my general health.\n\nI did exactly as he asked, and made the call (reaching his secretary).\nI explained to her that I was following up at the doctor's request,\nand that I was worried because the pain episodes were becoming more\nfrequent and the medication did not seem effective.\n\nThe doctor called me back, and his first words were, \"Whatever you want,\nyou'd better make it quick. I'm very busy and don't have time to chit-\nchat with you!\" I told him I was simply following his instructions to\ncall on the 7th day to status him, and that I was feeling worse. I \nthen asked if perhaps there was a better time for us to talk when he\nhad more time. He responded, \"Just spit it out now because no time is\na good time.\" (Said in a raised voice.) I started to feel upset and\ntried to explain quickly what was going on with my condition but my\nnervousness interfered with my choice of words and I kind of stuttered\nand then said \"well, never mind\" and he said he'll talk to various\ncolleagues about other medications and he'll call me some other time.\n\nThis doctor called me that evening and said because I didn't express\nmyself well, he was confused about what I wanted. At this point I\nwas pretty upset and I told him (in an amazingly polite voice considering\nhow angry I felt) that his earlier manner had hurt my feelings. He told\nme that he just doesn't have time to \"rap with patients\" and thought\nthat was what I wanted. I told him that to assume I was calling to\n\"rap\" was insulting, and said again that I was just following through\non his orders. He responded that he resented the implication that he \nfelt I was making that he was not interested in learning about what his\npatients have to say about their condition status. He then gave me\nthis apology: \"I am sorry that there was a miscommunication and you\nmistakenly thought I was insulting. I am not trying to insult you\nbut I am not that knowledgeable about pain, and I don't have a lot of\ntime to deal with that.\" He then told me to call him the next day\nfor further instructions on how do deal with my pain and medication.\n\nI am still upset and have not yet called.\n\nMy questions: (1) Should I continue to have this doctor manage my care?\n(2) Since I am in pain off and on, I realize that this may cause me to\nbe more anxietous so am I perhaps over-reacting or overly sensitive?\nIf this doctor refers me to his colleague who knows more about the type\nof pain I have, he still wants me to status him on my condition but\nnow I am afraid to call him.", "<>Hismanal (astemizole) is most definitely linked to weight gain.\n<>It really is peculiar that some antihistamines have this effect,\n<>and even more so an antihistamine like astemizole which purportedly\n<>doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier and so tends not to cause\n<>drowsiness.\n<\n>> INFJ Club.", "A friend of mine has a trouble with her ears ringing. The ringing is so loud\nthat she has great difficulty sleeping at night. She says that she hasn't \nhad a normal night's sleep in about 6 months (she looks like it too :-().\nThis is making her depressed so her doctor has put her on anti-depressants.\n\nThe ringing started rather suddenly about 6 months ago. She is quickly losing\nsleep, social life and sanity over this.\n\nDoes anyone know of any treatments for this? Any experience? Coping\nmechanisms? Any opinions on the anti-depressant drugs?", "\n\nSpeaking of which, has anyone else been impressed with how much the \ndescriptions of neurasthenia published a century ago sound like CFS?\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", " \nAs a person who is very sensitive to msg and whose wife and kids are\ntoo, I WANT TO KNOW WHY THE FOOD INDUSTRY WANTS TO PUT MSG IN FOOD!!!\n\nSomebody in the industry GIVE ME SOME REASONS WHY! \n\nIS IT AN INDUSTRIAL BYPRODUCT THAT NEEDS GETTING GET RID OF?\n\nIS IT TO COVER UP THE FACT THAT THE RECIPES ARE NOT VERY GOOD OR THE FOOD IS POOR QUALITY?\n\nDO SOME OF YOU GET A SADISTIC PLEASURE OUT OF MAKING SOME OF US SICK?\n\nDO THE TASTE TESTERS HAVE SOME DEFECT IN THEIR FLAVOR SENSORS (MOUTH etc...)\n THAT MSG CORRECTS?\n\nI REALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND!!!\n\nALSO ... Nitrosiamines (sp) and sulfites... Why them? There are\n safer ways to preserve food, wines, and beers!\n\nI think \n1) outlaw the use of these substances without warning labels as\nlarge as those on cig. packages.\n2) Require 30% of comparable products on the market to be free of these\nsubstances and state that they are free of MSG, DYES, NITROSIAMINES and SULFITES on the package.\n3) While at it outlaw yellow dye #5. For that matter why dye food? \n4) Take the dyes and flavorings out of vitamins. (In my OSCO only Stress\nTabs (tm) didn't have yellow dye #5) { My doctor says Yellow Dye #5 is\nresponsible for 1/2 of all nasal polyps !!! }\n\nKEEP FOOD FOOD! QUIT PUTTING IN JUNK!\n\nJUST MY TWO CENTS WORTH.\n\nSig: A person tired of getting sick from this junk!\n\n-- \nWalter Lundby\n\n\n", "\nI don't have any evidence against water from Lourdes curing MS --\nI'm sure there is anecdotal evidence that it does. Do you really think\nthat in the absence of a double-blind study I should be indifferent\nto the hypothesis that water from Lourdes cures MS?\n\nFor what it's worth, I know of only one double blind study of Nystatin\nfor \"candida hypersensitivity syndrome.\" It was published in the \nNew England Journal (I think 1990) and showed no benefit on systemic\nsymptoms (though I think it reduced vaginal yeast infections, not\nsurprisingly). As I recall, the yeast crowd had some major objections\nto the study, though I don't remember what they were.\n", "\nJobs? What the hell have jobs to do with it? It's another touchy-feely \nprogram from the new, vapid administration. The fact is, the major claim\nmade for \"universal\" immunization -- that \"all children will be immunized\" --\nhas absolutely no validity. Several states already have U.I. programs, have\nhad these programs for _years_. The result: on average, their success rates\nare no better than the national average. It seems that the gummint hasn't\nyet figured out a way to MAKE parents bring their kids in. Yet another case\nof shameless demagoguery from the \"new\" Democrats, the \"agents of change.\" \n \n\nWhat? Clinton using this issue for _partisan gain_? Do tell.\n \n\nAll together now... c'mon, you know the words... \"Meet the new boss! Same as \nthe old boss!\" And the chorus: \"We won't get fooled again!\"\n\n------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ \n\nPaul Havemann (Internet: paul@hsh.com)", "\netc. ...\n\n\nDyer is beyond rude. \n\nThere have been and always will be people who are blinded by their own \nknowledge and unopen to anything that isn't already established. Given what \nthe medical community doesn't know, I'm surprised that he has this outlook.\n\nFor the record, I have had several outbreaks of thrush during the several \npast few years, with no indication of immunosuppression or nutritional \ndeficiencies. I had not taken any antobiotics. \n\nMy dentist (who sees a fair amount of thrush) recommended acidophilous:\n\nAfter I began taking acidophilous on a daily basis, the outbreaks ceased.\nWhen I quit taking the acidophilous, the outbreaks periodically resumed. \nI resumed taking the acidophilous with no further outbreaks since then.", "\nOne of the responsibilities of a licensed physician is to read the medical \nliterature to keep up with changes in medical practice. All the clamor \nover laetril resulted in the NCI spending quite a bit of money on clinical \ntrials which proved(to me anyway) that laetril was ineffective against \ncancer. A physician who continued to use it, when better, more effective, \ntreatments are available, may deserve to be called a quack. Anti-fungals \nare in a different class. The big question seems to be is it reasonable to \nuse them in patients with GI distress or sinus problems that *could* be due \nto candida blooms following the use of broad-spectrum antibiotics? Gorden \nRubenfeld, through e-mail, has assured me that most physicians recognize \nthe chance of candida blooms occuring after broad-spectrum antibiotic use \nand they therefore reinnoculate their patients with *good* bacteria to \nrestore competetion for candida in the body. I do not believe that this is \nyet a standard part of medical practice. He deals with critical care \npatients where fungal infection(systemic) is a real problem and just \nbecause he tries to keep *good* bacteria in his patients does not mean that \nall physicians do this. I think that aspergillis is more likely to be \nfound in the sinus mucus membranes than is candida. Women have been known \nfor a very long time to suffer from candida blooms in the vagina and a \nwomen is lucky to find a physician who is willing to treat the cause and \nnot give give her advise to use the OTC anti-fungal creams. Since candida \ncolonizes primarily in the ano-rectal area, GI symptoms should be more common \nthan vaginal problems after broad-spectrum antibiotic use.\n\nThe problem we have here David is proof that GI discomfort can be caused by \na candida bloom. The arguement is that without proof, no action is \nwarrented.\n\nMedicine has not, and probalby never will be, practiced this way. There \nhas always been the use of conventional wisdom. A very good example is \nkidney stones. Conventional wisdom(because clinical trails have not been \ndone to come up with an effective prevention), was that restricitng the \nintake of calcium and oxalates was the best way to prevent kidney stones \nfrom forming. Clinical trials focused on drugs or ultrasonic blasts to \nbreakdown the stone once it formed. Through the recent New England J of \nMedicine article, we now know that conventional wisdom was wrong, \nincreasing calcium intake is better at preventing stone formation than is \nrestricting calcium intake.\n\nThe conventional wisdom in animal husbandry has been that animals need to \nbe reinnoculated with *good* bacteria after coming off antibiotic therapy.\nIf it makes sense for livestock, why doesn't it make sense for humans \nDavid? We are not talking about a dangerous treatment(unless you consider \nyogurt dangerous). If this were a standard part of medical practice, as \nGordon R. says it is, then the incidence of GI distress and vaginal yeast \ninfections should decline.", "I looked for diab in my .newsrc and came up with nuthin. Anyone have\nany good sources for where I can read? In particular, I'm interested\nin finding out more about intravenous insulin injection for hepatic\nvein liver activation. (Whew! Wotta mouthful!)\n\nAnything that smells like a pointer would be helpful: newsgroup,\nmailinglist, etc....\n\nMany thanks.\n", "\n\nI don't understand the assumption that because something is found to\nbe carcinogenic that \"it would not be legal in the U.S.\". I think that\nnaturally occuring substances (excluding \"controlled\" substances) are\npretty much unregulated in terms of their use as food, food additives\nor other \"consumption\". It's only when the chemists concoct (sp?) an\ningredient that it falls under FDA regulations. Otherwise, if they \nreally looked closely they would find a reason to ban almost everything.\nHow in the world do you suppose it's legal to \"consume\" tobacco products\n(which probably SHOULD be banned)?", "Have I mailed this to the correct newsgroup(s)? Are there other newsgroup(s)\nwhich cover the following topic?\n--------\n\nHas anyone with myopia (short-sightedness) ever done the Bates eye-exercises?\n\nIf so, could you please e-mail me the following information:\n\n\t- age and state of sight before exercises were commenced;\n\n\t- type, frequency, and length of time spent on exercises performed;\n\n\t- improvements noticed immediately after performing exercises;\n\n\t- length of period before any improved sight deteriorates;\n\nThanks in advance for any replies. I'll summarise and post results if there's\nenough interest.\n\n - Jonathan Goldstein\n", "Please post your results, a close friend has this condition and\nhas asked these same questions. \n\n", "I'm looking for information regarding dosages of prozac used in minor\ndepression. Also any other information regarding the drug is helpful. \nPlease send responses direct. Thanks!", "\n I've read about more than a few of these programs that ran into\nproblems in convincing parents to get their children immunized even\nwhen they were delivered to their doorstep. (I don't know, maybe\nthat sheet they have to be informed of about possible risks, side-\neffects, and bad reactions scares them.) \n", "Recurrent Volvulus\n -------------------\n \n This is regarding recurrent volvulus which our little boy\n has been suffering from ever since he was an infant. He had\n a surgery when he was one year old. Another surgery had\n to be performed one year after, when he was two years old.\n He turned three this February and he is still getting\n afflicted by this illness, like having to get hospitalised\n for vomitting and accompanying stomach pain.He managed\n not having a third surgery so far.\n \n * \tOne thing me and my wife noticed is that his affliction\n \tpeaks around the time he was born, on nearabouts, like in\n \tMarch every year. Any significance to this?\n \n *\tWhy does this recur? Me and my family go through severe pain\n \twhen our little boy have to undergo surgery. Why does surgery\n \tnot rectify the situation? \n \n *\tAlso, which hospital in US or Canada specialize in this malady?\n \n *\tWhat will be a good book explaining this disease in detail?\n \n *\tWill keeping a particular diet keep down the probability of \n \trecurrence?\n \n *\tAs time goes on, will the probability of recurrence go down\n \tconsidering he is getting stronger and healthier and probably\n \tless prone to attacks? Or is this assumption wrong?\n \n *\tAny help throwing light on these queries will be highly appreciated.\n \tThanks very much!", "\n\tIf alcohol were again banned today, it would be MUCH more\n\tdifficult to manage a large-scale smuggling operation. \n\tThe cops now rank just a narrow notch below the military\n\tin communications, intelligence gathering and firepower.\n\n\tIn a similar vein, the amount of marijuana smuggled into\n\tthis country has greatly decreased. This is because its\n\tvalue-per-pound is very low when compared to cocaine or\n\theroin. It's simply not worth the risk, it's uneconomical.\n\tNow, most reefer is domestic. There is less pressure on\n\tthe domestic producer (showy raids notwithstanding) and\n\tthus it is economical. Of note though ... domestic reefer\n\tis now very strong, so a small volume goes a long way.\n\tYou cannot make alcohol stronger than 200 proof - not a\n\tgood dollar/pound deal. ", "\n\nMaybe, maybe not. A new graduate would obviously be well trained (but\nperhaps without sufficient experience). A radiologist trained 10 or\n15 years ago who has not kept his continuing education current is a \nwhole 'nuther matter. A OB who HAS trained in modern radiology technology\nis certainly more qualified than the latter and at least equal to \nthe former.\n\n\nIf the radiologist is also trained in OB/GYN, why not?\n\nJohn\n", ":Is erythromycin effective in treating pneumonia?\n:\n:-fm\n\n\nNot only is it effective, it is in fact the drug of choice for\nuncomplicated cases of community-acquired penumonia.\n", "\nI have a lot of info about this disease. I am posting a small amount of\nit that I extracted. If more is required, e-mail me @\nls8139@gemini.albany.edu. Please, it takes me some time to upload it, so\nbe advised, only request it if you *really* want it.\n\nhere is some info from InfoTrac - Health Reference Center\n\nAlso, check you local of univeristy library. They most likely have the\nInfoTrac cd-rom this info was taken from......\n====================================\n\nInfoTrac - Health Reference Center ~ Oct '89 - Oct '92\n\n Heading: CANDIDA ALBICANS\n !Dictionary Definition\n\n 1. Mosby's Medical and Nursing Dictionary, 2nd edition\n COPYRIGHT 1986 The C.V. Mosby Company \n \n Candida albicans \n -------------------------------------------------------\n A common, budding, yeastlike, microscopic fungal \n organism normally present in the mucous membranes of \n the mouth, intestinal tract, and vagina and on the skin\n of healthy people. Under certain circumstances, it may \n cause superficial infections of the mouth or vagina \n and, less commonly, serious invasive systemic infection\n and toxic reaction. See also candidiasis.\n\n==============================\n\nInfoTrac - Health Reference Center ~ Oct '89 - Oct '92\n THE MATERIAL CONTAINED IN Health Reference Center ~ Oct '89 - Oct '92 IS PROVIDED\n ONLY FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES AND SHOULD NOT BE CONSTRUED AS\n MEDICAL ADVICE OR INSTRUCTION. CONSULT YOUR HEALTH PROFESSIONAL\n FOR ADVICE RELATING TO A MEDICAL PROBLEM OR CONDITION.\n\n\n Heading: CANDIDA ALBICANS\n\n 1. Yogurt cure for Candida. (acidophilus) il v22 East\n West Natural Health July-August '92 p17(1) \n TEXT AVAILABLE\n TEXT \nCOPYRIGHT East West Partners 1992 \n Another folk remedy receives the blessing of medical study. \nResearchers have found that eating a cup of yogurt a day drastically \nreduces a woman's chances of getting vaginal candida, a yeast infection.\n For the year-long study, researchers at Long Island Jewish Medical \nCenter in New Hyde Park, New York, recruited 13 women who suffered from \nchronic yeast infections. For the first 6 months, the women each day ate\n8 ounces of yogurt containing Lactobacillus acidophilus. For the second \n6 months, the women did not eat yogurt. The researchers examined the \nwomen each month and found that incidents of colonization and infection \nwere significantly lower during the period when the women ate yogurt. \n The fungus Candida albicans can live in the body without doing harm. \nIt is an overproliferation of the fungus that leads to infection. The \nresearchers concluded that the L. acidophilus bacteria found in some \nbrands of yogurt retard overgrowth of the fungus. Streptococcus \nthermophilus and L. bulgaricus are the two bacteria most commonly used \nin commercial yogurt production. Neither one appears to exert a \nprotective effect against Candida albicans, however. Women who want to \ntry yogurt as a preventive measure should choose a brand that lists \nacidophilus in its contents. \n--- end ---\n \n\n \n===================================\n\nInfoTrac - Health Reference Center ~ Oct '89 - Oct '92\n THE MATERIAL CONTAINED IN Health Reference Center ~ Oct '89 - Oct '92 IS PROVIDED\n ONLY FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES AND SHOULD NOT BE CONSTRUED AS\n MEDICAL ADVICE OR INSTRUCTION. CONSULT YOUR HEALTH PROFESSIONAL\n FOR ADVICE RELATING TO A MEDICAL PROBLEM OR CONDITION.\n\n\n Heading: CANDIDA ALBICANS\n\n 1. Candida (Monilia). (Infections Caused by Fungi) \n (Infectious Diseases) by Harold C. Neu The Columbia \n Univ. Coll. of Physicians & Surgeons Complete Home \n Medical Guide Edition 2 '89 p472(1) \n TEXT AVAILABLE\n TEXT \nCOPYRIGHT Crown Publishers Inc. 1989 \n Candida (Monilia) \n This disease is usually caused by Candida albicans, a fungus that we \nall carry at one time or another. In some circumstances, though, the \norganisms proliferate, producing symptomatic infection of the mouth, \nintestines, vagina, or skin. When the mouth or vagina are infected, the \ndisease is commonly called thrush. \n Vaginitis caused by Candida often afflicts women on birth control \npills or antibiotics. There is itching and a white, cheesy discharge. \nAmong narcotic addicts, Candida infections can lead to heart valve \ninflammation. \n Diagnosis of Candida infections is confirmed by cultures and blood \ntests. Treatment can be with amphotericin B or orally with ketoconazole.\nThere is no evidence that Candida in the intestine of normal individuals\nleads to disease. All people at one time or another have Candida in \ntheir intestines. Claims for any benefit from special diets or chronic \nantifungal agents is not based on any solid evidence. \n--- end ---\n\n\n\n==========================\nI hope this is informative.\nLarry\n\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\nLive From New York, It's SATURDAY NIGHT...", "-*----\n\nMing-zhou Liu's main problem is that he has an incompetent\nphysician -- himself. This physician has diagnosed a problem,\neven though he probably has never seen the diagnosed disease\nbefore and has no idea of what kinds of problems can present\nsimilar symptoms. This physician now wants to treat his first\ncase of this disease without any help from the medical community.\n\nThe best thing Ming-zhou Liu could do is fire his current\nphysician and seek out a better one.", "\nHerman, I would think you of all people would/could distinguish\nbetween \"health\" and \"treatment of disease.\" All the prevention\nmedicine people preach this all the time. You cannot buy health.\nYou can buy treatment of disease, assuming you are lucky enough\nto have a disease which can be treated. A rich person with a\nterminal disease is a bit out of luck. There is no such thing\nas \"adequately covered\" and there never will be. \n\nAnd for what it's worth, I'll be the first to admit that all my\npatients die.", "What's the feeling about eating and riding? I went out riding this\nweekend, and got a little carried away with some pecan pie. The whole\nride back I felt sluggish. I was certainly much more alert on the\nride in. I'm sure others have the same feeling, but the strangest\nthing is that eating is usually the turnaround point of weekend rides.\n\nFrom now on, a little snack will do. I'd much rather have a get that\nfull/sluggish feeling closer to home.\n\n-Paul", "[...]\nB > Medicine has not, and probalby never will be, practiced this way. There\nB > has always been the use of conventional wisdom. A very good example is\nB > kidney stones. Conventional wisdom(because clinical trails have not been\nB > done to come up with an effective prevention), was that restricitng the\nB > intake of calcium and oxalates was the best way to prevent kidney stones\nB > from forming. Clinical trials focused on drugs or ultrasonic blasts to\nB > breakdown the stone once it formed. Through the recent New England J of\nB > Medicine article, we now know that conventional wisdom was wrong,\nB > increasing calcium intake is better at preventing stone formation than is\nB > restricting calcium intake. \n[...]\nB > Marty B.\n\n Marty, I personally wouldn't be so quick and take that NEJM article \n on kidney stones as gospel. First of all, I would want to know who\n sponsored that study.\n I have seen too many \"nutrition\" bulletins over the years from\n local newspapers, magazines, to TV-guide, with disclaimers on the\n bottom informing us that this great health news was brought to us\n compliments of the Dairy Industries.\n There are of course numerous other interest groups now that thrive\n financially on the media hype created from the supposedly enormous \n benefits of increasing one's calcium intake.\n\n Secondly, were ALL the kidney stones of the test subjects involved \n in that project analysed for their chemical composition? The study\n didn't say that, it only claimed that \"most kidney stones are large-\n ly calcium.\"\n Perhaps it won't be long before another study comes up with the exact\n opposite findings. A curious phenomenon with researchers is that they\n are oftentimes just plain wrong. It wouldn't be the first time.\n \n Sodium/magnesium/calcium/phosphorus ratios are, in my opinion, still \n the most reliable indicators for the cause, treatment, and prevention \n of kidney stones.\n I, for one, will continue to recommend the most logical changes in\n one's diet or through supplementation to counteract or prevent kidney\n stones of either type; and they definitely won't include an INCREASE\n in calcium if the stones have been identified as being of the calcium\n type and people's chemical analysis confirms that they would benefit\n from a PHOSPHORUS-raising approach instead!\n\n Ron Roth\n =====================================================================\n -- Internet: rn.3228@rose.com - Rosenet: ron roth@rosehamilton --\n\n * A stone on the ground is better than a stone in the body.", ": \n: Isn't there a relatively new treatment for kidney stones involving\n: a non-invasive use of ultra-sound where the patient is lowered\n: into some sort of liquid when he/she undergoes treatment? I'm sure\n: I've read about it somewhere. If I remember it correctly it is a\n: painless and effective treatment.\nThe use of shock waves (not ultrasound) to break up stones has been\naround for a few years. Depending on the type of machine, and intensity\nof the shock waves, it is usually uncomfortable enough to require\nsomething... The high-power machines cause enough pain to require\ngeneral or regional anesthesia. Afterwards, it feels like someone\nslugged you pretty good!\n\n", "Not only is benzene a carcinogen, it is adsorbed through the skin and cause\ncumulative damage to the bone marrow which is essential to the production of\nyour blood cells. It is highly toxic. One exposure is unlikely to kill you,\nbut it will likely do hidden damage. Benzene is one compound that chemists\ntry like hell to avoid using!\nAcetone is much less toxic, but is highly flammable and volatile. \nIt also dissolves lots of things so handle with great care!", "\n\n\nSeems to me that I read in either a recent NY Times\nScience Times or maybe it was Science News that there is\nevidence that ex-smoker's risk of lung cancer never returns\nto that of a person who has never smoked (I think it may\nget close). I'll find the article and post it since my\nmemory is hazy on the specifics - if you are interested.", "GB> From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nGB> The HMO would stop the over-ordering, but in HMOs, tests are\nGB> under-ordered.\n\nThat's a somewhat overbroad statement. I'm sure there are HMOs in\nwhich the fees for lab tests are subtracted from the doctor's\nincome. In most, however, including the one I work for, there is no\ndirect incentive to under-order. Profits of the group are shared\namong all partners, but the group is so large that an individual's\ngenerated costs have a miniscule effect. I don't believe that we\nunder-order. Then again, I'm not really sure what the right amount\nof ordering is or should be. Relative to the average British\nneurologist, I suspect that I rather drastically over-order.", "\nWell, I think you might want to visit a doctor who is familiar with\nsleep disturbances, because antihistamines only help induce sleep when\nthey're used intermittently; they lose their sedative effect if they're\nused on a nightly basis. Their anticholinergic effects (drying of secretions,\nrelaxing effects on smooth muscle) can be problematic in some people, such as\nthose with glaucoma or prostate enlargement.\n\nAntihistamines like diphenhydramine (Benadryl) or doxylamine (Unisom)\nare potent sedatives which are useful occasionally. Chlorpheniramine\n(Chlor-Trimeton) is said to be less sedative, but 8mg seems to work\nwell in some people. Both chlorpheniramine and doxylamine have long\nhalf-lives compared to diphenhydramine, and so may produce a residual\nhangover or \"drugged\" feeling the next morning.\n", "Hi All,\n\nWould anyone out there in 'net-land' happen to have an\nauthentic, sure-fire way of making this great sauce that\nis used to adorn Gyro's and Souvlaki?\n\nThanks,", "To: milsh@nmr-z.mgh.harvard.edu (Alex Milshteyn)\n\n AM> Having said that, i might add, that in MHO, MSG does not enhance\n AM> flavor enoughf for me to miss it. When I go to chinese places,\n AM> I order food without MSG. \n\nTo me, MSG tastes just like a mixture of salt and sugar. I don't \nthink that is the case with most people. What does it taste like \nto you? ", "\nSorry, but I'd have to differ. The Canadian-bashing wrt to the health \ninsurance system is largely with little evidence or prompting. Having\nkept up with this debate on the net for some months, just about all the\ncriticism of the Canadian system has misquoted or misinterpreted even\nthe anti-Canadian propaganda put out by the American insurance industry\nand the AMA. \n\nIn a few cases, such as Mr. Case, the critiques are well-reasoned and\nworthy of response. Most others are misinformed, illogical,\nor just plain dumb. I don't think the same can be said of the \"American\nproponents\" of the Canadian system, much less of the Canadian proponents.\n\njsh", "Can anyone tell me if a bloodcount of 40 when diagnosed as hypoglycemic is\ndangerous, i.e. indicates a possible pancreatic problem? One Dr. says no, the\nother (not his specialty) says the first is negligent and that another blood\ntest should be done. Also, what is a good diet (what has worked) for a hypo-\nglycemic? TIA.\n\n\nAnthony Anello\nFermilab\nBatavia, Illinois\n\n", "As promised, below is a personal critique of a Pressure Point Massager \nI recently bought from the Self Care Catalog. I am very pleased with \nthe results. The catalog description is as follows:\n\n\tThe Pressure Point Massager is an aggressive physical massager \n\tthat actually kneads the tension out of muscles ... much like a\n\tprofessional shiatsu masseur. The powerful motor drives two\n\tcounter-rotating \"thumbs\" that move in one-inch orbits --\n\treleasing tension in the neck, back, legs and arms.\n\n\tPressure Point Massager A2623 $109\n\nTo order or receive a catalog, call (24 hours, 7 days) 1-800-345-3371 or\nfax at 1-800-345-4021.\n\n********\nNOTE:\nWhen I ordered the massager, the item number was different, and the price\nwas $179, not $109. When I received it, I glanced thru the newer catalog\nenclosed with it to see anything was different from the first one. I was \nQUITE annoyed to see a $70 difference in price. I called them about it,\nand the cust rep said that they had switched manufacturers, although it\nlooks and works exactly the same. He told me to go ahead and return the\nfirst one and order the cheaper one, using the price difference as a\nreason for return. In fact, since the newer ones might take a while to\nship from the factory (I received this one in 3 days), he told me I could \nuse the one I already have until the new one arrives, then return the old \none. VERY reasonable people.\n********\n\nI have long-term neck, shoulder and back pain (if I were a building, I \nwould be described as \"structurally unsound :-) ). I have stretches \nand exercises to do that help, but the problem never really goes away. \nIf, for whatever reason, I do not exercise for a while (illness, not enough\ntime, lazy, etc.), the muscles become quite stiff and painful and, thus, \nmore prone to further strain. Even with exercise, I sometimes require \nphysical therapy to get back on track, which 1st requires a doctor visit \nto get the prescription for p.t. \n\nThe tension in my neck, if not released, eventually causes a headache\n(sometimes confused with a sinus headache) over my left eye. When my \nphysical therapist has massaged my neck, and the sub-occipital muscles \nin particular (the 2 knobby areas near the base of the skull), the \nheadache usually eased within a day, although it hurts like hell to \nwhile it is being massaged.\n\nI ordered this device because it seemed to be exactly what I was wishing\nsomeone would invent --a machine that would massage, NOT VIBRATE, my \nneck and sub-occipital muscles like my physical therapist has done in \nthe past, that I could use by myself. No doctor visit or inconvenient \np.t. appts for a week later would be needed to use it. I could get up \nin the middle of the night and use it, if necessary.\n\nI have been using it for about a week or so now, and LOVE it. The base\nunit is about a 14\" x 9\" rectangle, about 3-3/4\" high, with handles on each\nside, and it plugs into an average outlet. The two metal \"thumbs\" are about \n1-1/2\" in diameter and protrude about 2-1/2\" above the base. The thumbs \nare covered with a gray cloth that is non-removable. They are located more \ntoward one end, rather than centered (see figure below). They move in \neither clockwise or counter-clockwise directions, depending on which side \nof the switch is pushed, and are very quiet. It can be used from either\nside. For instance, the thumbs can be positioned at the base of the neck\nor the top of the neck, depending on which direction you approach it.\n\n\n _______________________________\n | __ _______________ __ |\n | | | |\t\t| | | |\n | | | | \\^^/ \\^^/ | | | |\n | | | | || || | | | |\n | | | |\t\t| | | |\n | | | |_______________| | | |\n | |__|\t\t\t |__| |\n |_______________________________|\n\n\nFor the neck/head, the user varies the amount of pressure used by (if \nlaying down) allowing all or part of the full weight of the head and/or \nneck to rest on the thumbs. The handles can also be used if sitting or\nstanding, applying pressure with the arms/wrists. Since my wrists are\nalso impaired (I'm typing this over an extended period of time), and I \ndon't have someone living with me who can apply it, laying down works \nwell for me.\n\nFor my back, I sit in a high-backed kitchen chair, position the massager\nbehind me at whatever point I want massaged, and lean back lightly (or\nnot so lightly) against it. The pressure of leaning back holds it in place. \nIf I want to massage the entire spine, I simply move it down a few inches \nwhenever I feel like it. For my back, this machine is far superior to use \nthan the commonly used \"home-made\" massager of 2 tennis balls taped together \n(with the balls, position (against a wall or door) them over the spine and \nmove the body up and down against them). The tennis balls are better than \nnothing, but difficult to use for very long, especially if your quads are \nnot in good shape, and my long hair gets (painfully) in the way if I don't \npin it up first. As far as I'm concerned, the easier something like this \nis to use, the more likely I'll use/do it. If there are multiple \nconsiderations/hassles, I'm more likely to not bother with it.\n\nNot only has this machine helped with my headaches, but my range of motion \nfor my neck and back are greatly increased. The first time I used it on my\nneck/sub-occipital muscles, however, I overdid it and pressed too hard\nagainst it, which resulted in a very tender, almost bruised area for a\nfew days. I laid off it for about 3 days and applied ice, which helped. \nAfter that, I was more gradual about applying pressure. At this point, \nthe pain in the sub-occipital area is now minimal while being massaged. \nI also learned to use VERY LIGHT pressure on my lower back, which is the \nmost vulnerable point for me.\n\nIt also eased some painful knots of tension between my shoulder blades,\nalthough, again, it took a few days of massaging (just a few minutes at\na time) to really work it out.\n\nI highly recommend this product if you have similar problems, although I\ncannot vouch for its durability (it seems pretty sturdy), since I've had\nit such a short time. I plan to use it not only to ease tension, but also \nto loosen the muscls BEFORE exercising (and maybe after, too). I have\nbeen ill recently and not able to exercise much for a few weeks, so this \nwas very timely for me.\n\nThis is the 1st product I've ordered from this company and only recently\nbecame aware of it thru a co-worker. The catalog states they have been\nin business since 1976. It contains quite a few health care products and,\nwhile they appear to be more expensive than the average health care catalog\nproducts, they also appear to be of much higher quality with more thought\nput into what they actually do. Definitely a step above some other ones\nI've seen such as \"Dr. Leonards Health Care Catalog\" or \"Mature Wisdom\".\nI'm only 37, but have ended up on some geriatric-type mailing lists (no\nbig surprise here :-) ). I consider many of those products to be rip-offs, \nparticularly targeted toward the elderly, with dubious health benefits.\n\nI apologize for the length of this, but it's the kind of info _I_ would \nlike to know before ordering something thru the mail.\n", "There have been a few postings in the past on alleged pathological \n(esp. neurological) conditions induced by playing video games\n(e.g. Nintendo). Apparently, there have been reported several cases of\n\"photosensitive epilepsy\", due to the flashing of some\npatterns and the strong attention of the (young) players.\nOne poster to comp.risks reported some action from\nthe British Government.\n\nA quick search in a database reported the following two published\nreferences:\n\n1. E.J. Hart, Nintendo epilepsy, in New England J. of Med., 322(20), 1473\n2. TK Daneshmend et al., Dark Warrior epilepsy, BMJ 1982; 284:1751-2.\n\nI would appreciate if someone could post (or e-mail) \nany reference to (preferably published) further work on the subject.\nAny pointer to other information and/or to possible technical tools \n(if any) for reducing the risks are appreciated.\n\nMany thanks,", "\n\n\nA. Folks, do we have an FAQ on tinnitus yet?\n\nB. As a lo-o-o-ong time sufferer of tinnitus and as a neuroscientist\nwho has looked over the literature carefully I believe the following\nare reasonable conclusions:\n\n1. Millions of people suffer from chronic tinnitus.\n2. The cause it not understood.\n3. There is no accepted treatment that cures it.\n4. Some experimental treatments may have helped some people a bit, but\nthere have be no reports--even anecdotal--of massive good results with\nany of these experimental drugs.\n5. Some people with chronic loud tinnitus use noise blocking to get to sleep.\n6. Sudden onset loud tinnitus can be caused by injuries and sometimes\nabates or goes away after a few months.\n7. Aspirin is well known to exacerbate tinnitus in some people.\n8. There is a national association of tinnitus sufferers in the US.\n9. One usually gets used to it. Especially when concentrating on\nsomething else the tinnitus becomes unnoticed.\n10. Stress and lack of sleep make tinnitus more annoying, sometimes.\n11. I'm sure those of us who have it wish there was a cure, but there\nis not.", " \nI agree. Adding layers of managers and bureaucrats simply eat up\nmoney that could be spent on those who actually are doing the work\nsuch as doctors and nurse, and supplies. The most efficient system\nis probably one that has limited management and a fixed budget such\nas England's or even Canada's. I'm afraid we are on the wrong\ntrack. The problem may be that the insurance lobby is too powerful.\n\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "\n\nYou appear to be stunningly ignorant of the underlying concept of health\ninsurance.\n", ":I recently attended an allery seminar. Steroid Nasal sprays were \n:discussed. Afterward on a one-on-one basis, I asked the speaker what if \n:none of the Vancanese, Beconase, Nasalide, Nasalcort, or Nasalchrom work \n:nor do any oral decongestants work. She replied that she saw an article on \n:Vasomotor Rhinitis. That this is not an allergic reaction and that nothing \n:other than the Afrin's and such would work. (Which in my case is true).\n\nThere has been some recent research on vasomotor rhinitis that shows that\nipratroprium bromide (Atrovent) inhaled nasally is an effective treatment\nfor many sufferers. It has been approved for this use and is available\nwith a nasal adaptor in Canada. In the US the FDA has yet to approve this\nuse of the drug, but it is available as an oral inhaler (for COPD), and\nthese can be adapted for intranasal use.\n\n", "Hello,\n\n Just one quick question:\n My father has had a back problem for a long time and doctors\n have diagnosed an operation is needed. Since he lives down in\n Mexico, he wants to know if there is a hospital anywhere in\n the United States particulary famous for this kind of surgery,\n kind of like Houston has a reputation for excellent doctors\n in eye surgery. Any additional info or pointers will be\n appreciated a whole lot!...\n\n\n Thanks in Advance.", "So does clear lipstick/chapstick/etc. fit under the \"natural look\" or\nthe \"waxy shit\" category? I wear something on my lips to keep them from\ndrying out. Kissing dry, cracked, parched lips isn't too fun either.\n\nNot if Tom has anything to say about it you won't! Noemi speaks for\nherself.\n\nBeth", "Gordon Rubenfeld responds to Ron Roth:\nGR>\nGR> RR> Well, Gordon, I look at the RESULTS, not at anyone's *scientific*\nGR> RR> stamp of approval.\nGR> \nGR> If you and your patients (followers?) are convinced (as you've written)\nGR> by your methods of uncontrolled, undocumented, unreported, unsubstantiated,\nGR> subjective endpoint research - great. But, why should the rest of us care?\n\n Gordon, even if you are trying to beat this issue to death, you'll \n never get more than a stalemate out of this one!\n I have never tried to force my type of medicine on any of you. Why \n should I? My patients are happy. I'm happy. You and your peers seem \n to be the only miserable ones around bemoaning the steady loss of \n patients to the alternative camp.\n Just look at Europe. There has been a steady exodus from 'synthetic' \n medicine for over a decade now, and it'll be just a matter of time\n before more people on this continent will abandon their drug and white \n coat worship as well and visit different doctors for different needs.\n\nGR> You see Ron, the point isn't whether YOU and your patients are\nGR> convinced that whatever it is you do works; it's whether what you do is\nGR> MORE effective in similar cases (of whatever it is you think you are\nGR> treating) than cupping, bloodletting, and placebo.\n\n This is very interesting. I have come exactly to the same conclusions\n but in regards to *conventional* medicine.\n\n You see, I don't just treat little old ladies that wouldn't know any\n different of what is being done, but a bulk of my patients consist of\n teachers, lawyers, judges, nurses, accountants, university graduates,\n and various health practitioners.\n If these people have gotten results with my method after having been\n unsuccessful with yours or their own, I certainly wouldn't lose any \n sleep over whether you or your peers approve of my treatments --- \n let's face it, with all the blunders committed by \"scientific\" MDs \n over the years, I know a lot of people who hold your *scientific* \n method in much lower esteem than they hold mine!\n\nGR> As far as we know ayurveda = crystals = homeopathy = Ron Roth\nGR> which may all equal placebo administered with appropriate\nGR> trappings...\n \n Sorry, but I'm not familiar OR interested with what appears to be \n 'NEW AGE' medicine (ayurveda, crystals), with the exception of homeo-\n pathy, of which I took a course. But Gordon, you already knew that -\n you just wanted to make my system look a bit more far out, right?\n \n I use homeopathy very little, since my cellular test (EMR) is hard to\n beat for accuracy and minerals are more predictable, while homeopathy\n does have a problem with reliability, especially in acute conditions.\n An exception perhaps are homeopathic nosodes which act fairly quickly\n and are more dependable in certain viral or bacterial situations. \n\nGR> My colleagues and I spend hours debating study design\nGR> and results, even of therapies currently accepted as \"standard\".\nGR> As good (well, adequate) scientists, we are prepared, *if \nGR> presented with appropriate data*, to abandon our most deeply held \nGR> beliefs in favor of new ideas.\n\n I have met the challenges of hundreds of sceptics by verifying the\n accuracy of measuring their mineral status to their total satisfac-\n tion --- in other words EVERYONE INVOLVED is happy!\n If you were to cook a meal, would you worry over whether EVERYONE \n in this world would find it to their liking, or only those that end \n up eating it?\n Since I have financed every research project that I have undertaken \n entirely myself, I don't need to follow any of your rules or guide-\n lines to satisfy any aspects of a grant application, which YOU may \n have to; neither am I concerned of whether or not my study designs \n meet your or anyone else's criteria or acceptance. \n\nGR> Sorry Ron, if conviction were the ruler of truth, a flat Earth would\nGR> still be the center of the Universe and epilepsy a curse of the gods.\n \n I think there would be more justification for an uneducated person\n growing up in an uncivilized environment to believe in a flat earth,\n than for a civilized, well educated and scientifically trained mind\n to follow the doctrine of evolution.\n Genetic engineering of course is now the final frontier to show God\n how it is (properly) done. Now we've become capable of creating our\n own paradise and give disease (and God) the boot, right?\n\n But just before we get rid of Him for good, perhaps He could leave us\n some pointers on how to solve a couple of tiny problems, such as war, \n poverty, racism, crime, riots, substance abuse... And one last thing, \n could He also give us a hint on how to control natural disasters, the\n weather, and last, but not least --- peace?\n\n --Ron--", "\nUm, I hate to break this to you, but article numbers are unique per site.\nThey have no meaning on other machines.\n\n\nYou mean the responses some of which pointed to double-blind tests\nwhich show no such \"chinese restaurant effect\" unique to MSG\n(it's elicited by the placebo as well.)\n\n\nLike youself? Someone who can read a scientific paper and apparently\ncome away from it with bizarrely cracked ideas which have nothing to\ndo with the use of this substance in human nutrition?\n\n\nNo, it's undisputed in the literature that glutamate is an amino acid\nwhich is an excitatory neurotransmitter. There is also evidence that\nexcessive release of glutamate may be involved in the pathology of certain\nconditions like stroke, drowning and Lou Gehrig's disease, just to name a few.\nThis is a completely different issue than the use of this ubiquitous amino acid\nin foods. People are not receiving intra-ventricular injections of glutamate.\n\n\nI don't know about premier, but it's certainly an important one.\n\n\nSez you. Such an effect in humans has not been demonstrated in any\ncontrolled studies. Infant mice and other models are useful as far\nas they go, but they're not relevant to the matter at hand. Which is\nnot to say that I favor its use in things like baby food--a patently\nridiculous use of the additive. But we have no reason to believe\nthat MSG in the diet effects humans adversely.\n\n\nWrong. Do you know how much aspartate or phenylalanine is in a soft drink?\nMilligrams worth. Compare that to a glass of milk. Do you know how much\nglutamate is present in most protein-containing foods compared to that\nadded by the use of MSG?\n\n\nNotice the subtle covering of her ass here: \"anyone _with a sensitivity_...\"\nWe're disputing the size of that class.\n\n\nImpeccable. There most certainly is a dispute.\n", "KW> If you don't like additives, then for godsake, \nKW> get off the net and learn to cook from scratch. Sheesh.\n\nMary Allison exclaims:\nMA> EXCUSE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!\nMA> Why can't people learn to cook from scratch *ON* the net. \nMA> I've gotten LOTS of recipes off the net that don't use additives.\n\nBecause one simply _can't_ cook on the net, nor can one cook while ON the\nnet. Cooking is best done IN a kitchen, ON a stove. (Gotcha! *grin*)\n\n(I said this out of general frustration at people (not anyone in particular)\n who seem to expect packaged food to conform to their tastes. In other\n words, if packaged foods are not to your liking, prepare foods that are.)\n\nMA> If you LIKE additives then get off the net and go to your local\nMA> supermarket, buy lots of packaged foods, and YOU get OFF THE NET!!\n\nI don't have strong feelings about additives, as long as I can't taste 'em.\n\n(As for the rest of your reply to me, I am sorry it it seemed as if i was \n picking on you. I wasn't trying to do so. Please accept my apologies.)", "Can one develop inner-ear problems from too much flying? I hear that pilots\nand steward/esses have a limit as to the maximum number of flying hours --\nwhat are these limits? What are the main problems associated with too many\nlong-haul (over 4 hours) trips?", "A woman once told me her doctor told her that I\ncould catch, asymptomatically, her yeast infection\nfrom her, then give it back to her, causing\na relapse.\n\nProbably bogus, but if not, it's another reason to use\nlatex...", "\nSo antihistamines can cause weight gain. NOW they tell me. :-)\nIs there any way to find out which do & which don't? My doctor\nobviously is asleep at the wheel.\n\nThe original poster mentioned fatigue. I had that too, but it was\nmostly due to the really bizarre dreams I was having -- I wasn't getting\nany rest. My doctor said that was a common reaction. If astemizole\ndoesn't cross the blood-brain barrier, how does it cause that side\neffect? Any ideas?\n\n-- ", "\nProbably she meant that your blood pressure went up while you were on\nthe treadmill. This is normal. You'll have to ask her if this is\nwhat she meant, since no one else can answer for another person.\n\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", ":Being a chronic HBsAg carrier does not necessarily mean the patient has chronic\n:persistent anything. Persons who are chronic carriers may have no clinical,\n:biochemical, or histologic evidence of liver disease, or they may have chronic\n:persistent hepatitis, chronic active hepatitis, cirrhosis, or hepatocellular\n:carcinoma.\n:\n:Most cases of chronic persistent hepatitis (CPH) are probably the result of\n:a viral infection, although in a good number of cases the cause cannot be\n:determined. The diagnosis of CPH is made on the basis of liver biopsy. It\n:consists of findings of portal inflammation, an intact periportal limiting\n:plate, and on occasion isolated foci of intralobular necrosis. But in contrast\n:to chronic active hepatitis (CAH) there is no periportal inflammation, \n:bridging necrosis, or fibrosis. \n:\n:CPH has, indeed, an excellent prognosis. If I had to choose between CAH and\n:CPH there is no question I would also choose CPH. However, as David pointed\n:out, the distinction between the two is not as neat as some of us would have\n:it. The histology can sometimes be pretty equivocal, with biopsies showing\n:areas compatible with both CPH and CAH. Maybe it is a sampling problem. Maybe\n:it is a continuum. I don't know.\n\nDarn. Just when I think I understand something someone who knows the\npathology has to burst my bubble :-( We'd better not start talking about\nglomerular diseases, then I'll really get depressed.\n\nSeriously though, I wonder how someone with CPH would end up getting a\nbiopsy in the first place? My understanding (and feel free to correct me)\nis that the enzymes are at worst mildly elevated, with overall normal\nhepatic function. I would think that the only clue might be a history of\nprior HepB infection and a positive HepB-sAg. Or is it indeed on a\ncontinuum with CAH, and the distinction merely one of pathology and\nprognosis, but otherwise identical clinical features?\n", "What resources and services are available on Internet/BITNET which\nwould be of interest to hospitals and other medical care providers?\nI'm interested in anything relelvant, including institutions and\nbusinesses of interest to the medical profession on Internet,\nspecial services such as online access to libraries or diagnostic\ninformation, etc. etc.", "\n\nIt may be a good way to catch a cold. It's easy to pick up cold\nviruses on your fingers, either from touching a contaminated surface,\nor by shaking hands with someone that has a cold. Then putting your\nfingers in your nose will transfer the viruses to your nose.\n\n\n--\nSteven Litvintchouk\nMITRE Corporation\n202 Burlington Road\nBedford, MA 01730-1420", "\nYou can probably get this information by calling your public health\ndepartment in your county (in Pittsburgh, they give the shots free,\nas well). There are bulletins in medical libraries that give\nrecommendations, or you could call the infectious diseases section\nof the medicine department of your local medical school. You also\nwill probably want to talk about Malaria prophylaxis. You will\nneed your doctor to get the prescription. \n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "\nEssential tremor is a progressive hereditary tremor that gets worse\nwhen the patient tries to use the effected member. All limbs, vocal\ncords, and head can be involved. Inderal is a beta-blocker and\nis usually effective in diminishing the tremor. Alcohol and mysoline\nare also effective, but alcohol is too toxic to use as a treatment.\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "\nWhat's that supposed to mean?\n\nShe's 80 lbs.\n\nUnderstand english? 1/2 ;)\n\nShe let wind break cause I fed her cheap food, and not\nthe same thing every time. So she had to \"adjust\" to\neach different brand for a while.\n\n", "My 14-y-o son has the usual teenage spotty chin and greasy nose. I\nbought him Clearasil face wash and ointment. I think that is probably\nenough, along with the usual good diet. However, he is on at me to\nget some product called Dalacin T, which used to be a\ndoctor's-prescription only treatment but is not available over the\nchemist's counter. I have asked a couple of pharmacists who say\neither his acne is not severe enough for Dalacin T, or that Clearasil\nis OK. I had the odd spots as a teenager, nothing serious. His\nfather was the same, so I don't figure his acne is going to escalate\ninto something disfiguring. But I know kids are senstitive about\ntheir appearance. I am wary because a neighbour's son had this wierd\nmalady that was eventually put down to an overdose of vitamin A from\nacne treatment. I want to help - but with appropriate treatment.\n\nMy son also has some scaliness around the hairline on his scalp. Sort\nof teenage cradle cap. Any pointers/advice on this? We have tried a\ncouple of anti dandruff shampoos and some of these are inclined to\nmake the condition worse, not better.\n\nShall I bury the kid till he's 21 :)\n", "\n\nWhich listsev was this and is the discussion still current? My questioning\nis based on some information presented from the Essene NT that challenges\nsome of my eating choices. As the info came from a biased (opposed to my\npreferences) third party I am looking for info as to whether I should\ndismiss this work or put some consideration into it. Thanks again for info!", "Then there are always osteopathy colleges....\n", "\nThere is no contradiction here. It is essential in the sense that your\nbody needs it. It is non-essential in the sense that your body can\nproduce enough of it without supplement.", "\n\n30mg per day of propranolol is a homeopathic dose in migraine. \nIf you got fatigued at that level, it is unlikely that you will\ntolerate enough beta blocker to help you. \n\nProbably a single nightime dose. We don't know how they work in migraine, but\nit probably has something to do with seratonin.\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "\n: Hi All,\n\n: Would anyone out there in 'net-land' happen to have an\n: authentic, sure-fire way of making this great sauce that\n: is used to adorn Gyro's and Souvlaki?\n\n: Thanks,\n\nI have a receipe at home that was posted to me by one of our fellow\nnetters about a month ago. I am recalling this from memory but\nI think I'm fairly close (by the way it was GREAT!)\n\n1 \tpint of plain yogurt \n1/2\tmed. sized cucumber finely shredded\n3\tcloves of garlic (more or less by taste)\n1/4 tsp\tdill weed\n\nThe yogurt is dumped into a strainer lined with a coffee\nfilter and allowed to drain at least 2 hours (you can\nadjust the consistancy of the sauce by increasing this time\nup to 24 hours)\n\nThe shredded cuc is drained the same way\n\nMix it all together and let it steep for at least\n2 hours (it's better the next day) and enjoy!", "\n\n\nThere's a lot of evidence, it just hasn't been adequately gathered and\npublished in a way that will convince the die-hard melancholic skeptics\nwho quiver everytime the word 'anecdote' or 'empirical' is used.\n\nFor example, Dr. Ivker, who wrote the book \"Sinus Survival\", always gives,\nbefore any other treatment, a systemic anti-fungal (such as Nizoral) to his\nnew patients IF they've been on braod-spectrum anti-biotics 4 or more times\nin the last two years. He's kept a record of the results, and for over \n2000 patients found that over 90% of his patients get significant relief\nof allergic/sinus symptoms. Of course, this is only the beginning for his\nprogram.\n\nIn my case, as I reported a few weeks ago, I was developing the classic\nsymptoms outlined in 'The Yeast Connection' (I agree it is a poorly \nwritten book): e.g., extreme sensitivity to plastics, vapors, etc. which\nI never had before (started in November). Within one week of full dosage\nof Sporanox, the sensitivity to chemicals has fully disappeared - I can\nnow sit on my couch at home without dying after two minutes. I'm also\n*greatly* improved in other areas as well.\n\nOf course, I have allergy symptoms, etc. I am especially allergic to\nmolds, yeasts, etc. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that\nif one has excessive colonization of yeast in the body, and you have a\nnatural allergy to yeasts, that a threshold would be reached where you\nwould have perceptible symptoms. Also, yeast do produce toxins of various\nsorts, and again, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to realize that\nsuch toxins can cause problems in some people. In my case it was sinus\nsince that's the center of my allergic response. Of course, the $60,000\nquestion is whether a person who is immune compromised (as tests showed I was\nfrom over 5 years of antibiotics, nutritionally-deficiencies because of the\nstress of infections and allergies, etc.), can develop excessive yeast\ncolonization somewhere in the body. It is a tough question to answer since\ntesting for excessive yeast colonization is not easy. One almost has to\ntake an empirical approach to diagnosis. Fortunately, Sporanox is relatively\nsafe unlike past anti-fungals (still have to be careful, however) so there's\nno reason any longer to withhold Sporanox treatment for empirical reasons.\n\nBTW, some would say to try Nystatin. Unfortunately, most yeast grows hyphae\ntoo deep into tissue for Nystatin to have any permanent affect. You'll find\na lot of people who are on Nystatin all the time.\n\nIn summary, I appreciate all of the attempts by those who desire to keep\nmedicine on the right road. But methinks that some who hold too firmly\nto the party line are academics who haven't been in the trenches long enough\nactually treating patients. If anybody, doctors included, said to me to my\nface that there is no evidence of the 'yeast connection', I cannot guarantee\ntheir safety. For their incompetence, ripping off their lips is justified as\nfar as I am concerned.\n\nJon Noring\n\n-- \n\nCharter Member --->>> INFJ Club.", "[Cross-posted from alt.psychology.personality since it talks about\n physician's personalities. Apologies to sci.med readers not\n familiar with the Myers-Briggs \"NT/NF\" personality terms. But,\n in a word or two, the NTs (iNtuitive->Thinkers) are approximately your\n philosophy/science/tech pragmatic types, and the NFs (iNtuitive-Feelers)\n are your humanities/social-\"science\"/theology idealistic types. They\n hate each others' guts (:-)) but tend to inter-marry.\n The letter \"J\" is a reference to conscienciousness/decisiveness.]\n\nJon Noring emits typical NF-type stuff \n\nPlease get it right, Jon.\n(This NTJ has a strong desire to correct semantic mistakes,\n because the NFs of this world are fouling the once-pristine NT\n intellectual nest with their verbal poop.)\n\nThe dominant correlation is NT <-> Phlegmatic (and _not_ NT <-> Choleric).\nOne of the semantic roots of \"choleric\" is the idea of \"hot\" (emotional)\nand one of the semantic roots of \"phlegmatic\" is \"cold\" (unemotional).\n\nHere is a thumbnail sketch (taken from Hans Eysenck, refering to Wundt)\nrelating the Ancient Greek quadratic typology with modern terms:\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n Emotional \n ^\n (\"Melancholic\") | (\"Choleric\")\n | \n Thoughtful Suspicious | Quickly-aroused Hotheaded\n Unhappy Worried | Egocentric Histrionic\n Anxious | Exhibitonist \n Serious | Active \n Unchangeable < ------------------------------------------------> Changeable\n Calm | Playful \n Reasonable | Carefree\n Steadfast Persistent | Hopeful Sociable\n Highly-principled Controlled | Controlled Easy-going\n | \n (\"Phlegmatic\") | (\"Sanguine\")\n |\n v\n Non-emotional\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nI suspect that your characterisation of NTs as \"choleric\" is what\nyou psych-types call a \"projection\" of your own NF-ness onto us.\n\n\nPerhaps in serious pediatics and \"my little boy's got a runny\nnose, doctor\" general practice, but, please God, not in neurology,\nopthamology, urology, etc. etc. And NF-psychiatry should seperate\nfrom NT-(i.e. real) psychiatry and be given a new name .. something \nlike \"channeling\" :-).\n", "Which works fine until you end up in the hospital because you were hit on the\nhead and your wallet, with your insurance card, is stolen. This happened to \nme, and it took six months to sort the mess out. These sorts of plans sound\nnice at first, but in the end they just create a lot of paperwork and\nbureaucracy to deal with all the checking and filing they involve.", "A relative of mine was recently diagnosed with colon cancer. I would like\nto know the best source of survival statistics for this disease when\ndiscovered at its various stages.\n\nI would prefer to be directed to a recent source of this data, rather than\nreceive the data itself.", "\n\nThese substances are normally not the secret, but how to get at them. The \nmethod of preperation is normally patented, which means that no-one else can \nmake the chemical in the same way, without undergoing an agreement with \nAmerican Cyanamid. (But I guess you knew what a patent is :-) )\n\nIf you know what substance is used, you'll also know its toxicity.\n\n\nThe Luminol reaction has the disadvantage of not lasting as long as the \ncommercial version.\n\nRemember that cyano compounds are found in nature, and not all are poisonous.\n\nRegards,", "\nBe sure a dietician is up to date on Crohn's and Ulcerative Colitis. \nPreviously, low residue diets were recommended, but this advice has\nnow changed. Also, there will be differences in advice in patients with\nand without obstructuon remaining, so input by the physician will be \nimportant. I find the dietician very important in my practice, and \nI send most of my patients to a dietician in the course of seeing\nthem, since dieticians know so much better how to get diet histories\nand evaluate the contents of a diet than I do.", "Forgive me, but just the other day I read on some newsgroup or other a\nphysician's posting about the theraputic uses of vitamin B6. I can't\nseem to locate the article, but I recall there was mention of some safe\nlimits.\n\nI looked at a \"Balanced 100\" time release formulation from Walgreen's\nand noted that the 100 mg of B6 was some thousands times the RDA. Is\nthis safe?!?.\n\nAlso what was the condition that B6 was theraputic for?\n\nMail would be just fine if you don't want to clog the net.", "Dear news readers,\n\nIs there anyone using sheep models for cardiac research, specifically\nconcerned with arrhythmias, pacing or defibrillation? I would like\nto hear from you.\n\nMany thanks,\n\nAndrew Mears\n*************** PLEASE EMAIL ME *************", " >evidence of the 'yeast connection', I cannot guarantee their safety.\n >For their incompetence, ripping off their lips is justified as far as\n >I am concerned.\n\nThis doesn't sound like Candida Albicans to me.", "Mark McWiggins reminds us:\n\nMM> Also, don't forget that it's better for your health \nMM> to enjoy your steak than to resent your sprouts ...\n\nYES!\n\nI call this notion \"psychological health food\" and, in fact, have\ndetermined that the Four Food Groups are Ice Cream, Pizza, Barbecue, and\nChocolate. Ideally, every meal should contain something from at least two\nof these four groups. Food DOES serve functions other than nutrition, and\none of them is keeping the organism happy and thus aiding its immune\nsystem. \n\nAnd I didn't spend a million bucks commissioning a study that told me to\nredraw my silly little pyramid in different colors and with a friendlier\ntypeface, either. (Ref: Consumer Reports' back page--one of the best\nthings ever to turn up there.)\n\nRich Young writes of one of six impossible things:\nRY> to consume unrealistically large quantities of barbecued meat at a time.\"\n\nDonald Mackie confesses:\nDM> I have to confess that this is one of my few unfulfilled ambitions.\nDM> No matter how much I eat, it still seems realistic.\n\nYeah, I want to try one of those 42oz steaks (cooked over applewood) at\nWally's Wolf Lodge Inn in Coeur d'Alene. That seems quite\nunrealistic--unrealistically SMALL. And a few slabs of ribs from the East\nTexas Smoker (RIP, again) in Louisville is not at all unrealistic either. \n\nWhat say we have a rec.food.cooking dinner at the Moonlite Bar-B-Que Inn in\nOwensboro? (It's all you can eat including lamb ribs & mutton for about\n$10.) We could invite Julie Kangas as guest of honor and see if the\nMoonlite's Very Hot Sauce is too hot for her. (It IS too hot for me, and I\ndon't say that very often.) And she could bring ice cream with crushed\ndried chiltepins for dessert. \n\nAnd we could see if there IS such a thing as an \"unrealistically large\nquantity\" of barbecue--the owner of the Moonlite estimates that the\nOwensboro restaurants serve a hundred thousand pounds of meat a week in the\nsummer, and forty thousand in the winter--in a town of 50 000 or so. Two\npounds per person per week? Again, sure sounds unrealistic to me--thats\njust too meager to be healthy.\n\n~ Kiran (Now a two-pound slab of ribs a day, THAT's realistic.)\n", "A relative of mine has recently been diagnosed with \"stage 3 papillary cell\novarian cancer\". We are urgently seeking the best place in the country for\ntreatment for this.\n\nDoes anyone have any suggestions?\n\nAs you might suspect, time is of the essence.", "To: nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye)\n\nThere is a person on the FIDO CFS echo who claims that he was \ncured of CFS by taking accutane. He also claims that you are \nusing it in the treatment of Fibromyalgia Syndrome. Are you \nusing accutane in the treatment of Fibromyalgia Syndrome? Have \nyou used it for CFS? Have you gotten good results with it? Are \nyou aware of any double blind studies on the use of accutane in \nthese conditions? Thank you in advance for all replies.", "From: harelb@math.cornell.edu (misc.activism.progressive co-moderator)\nSubject: FCUS/HEALTH: Millions of Americans un-/under- covered\n\nFCUS/HEALTH: Millions of Americans un-/under- covered\n\n\t\t =================================== \n\t\t Percentage of population covered by \n\t\t public health insurance, 1990(25) \n\t\t =================================== \n\n============================================= \nCOUNTRY PERCENT COUNTRY PERCENT \n============================================= \nAustralia 100 Sweden 100 \nCanada 100 United Kingdom 100 \nDenmark 100 Austria 99 \nFinland 100 France 99 \nIreland 100 Switzerland 99 \nItaly 100 Spain 99 \nJapan 100 Belgium 98 \nNew Zealand 100 Germany 92 \nNetherlands 100 United States 21 \nNorway 100 \n\nSources: Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (Paris), \nHealth Data file, 1991: U.S.: National Center for Heath Statistics, Advance \nData, No. 201, June 18, 1991. \n\n******************************************************************\n\"We're Number One in percentage of population without health insurance. \n******************************************************************\n\n\"The main reason we're Number One in percentage of population without\nhealth insurance is that we're last in percentage of population\ncovered by public health insurance. Only about one fifth of Americans\nqualify for the main types of public health insurance available in the\nUnited States: Medicare, Medicaid, and veterans' benefits.(2l)\n\n\"Of those who don't qualify, many have private insurance.(22) But\nalmost one in seven Americans (34 million people--most living in\nfamilies with a working adult) have no insurance at all, and one in\nfour (63 million) have been without insurance for a substantial period\nof time during the last two years. Many more have inadequate coverage,\nmeaning that they could be bankrupted by a major illness.(23) In fact,\none health care expert says that because only 1 percent of the\npopulation has private longterm-care insurance, \"virtually any\nAmerican could be impoverished by a prolonged disabling illness.\"(24)\nAdditionally, as many as 40 percent of those eligible for some forms\nof public aid do not receive it. These gaps in health care result\ndirectly from the fact that the United States is the only major\nindustrialized nation (other than South Africa) without a national\nhealth insurance plan providing universal coverage while controlling\ncosts.\n\n******************************************************************\nFrom: \n\n\n - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - \n_We're Number One, Where America Stands -- and Falls -- in the New \nWorld Order_ by Andrew L Shapiro. \n\nNew York, May 1992, Vintage Books, a division of Random House. \n$10 paperback. ISBN 0-679-73893-2 \n - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - \n[Transcribed by jhwoodar@well.sf.ca.us (Joe Woodard)] \n\n ``America is becoming a land of private greed and public squalor. \n This book is an indispensable road map through the wreckage. The \n facts it reveals will startle you. They may depress you. But \n ideally they'll fire you up to help rebuild this nation.'' ", "You can also swab the inside of your nose with Bacitracin using a\nQ tip. Bacitracin is an antibiotic that can be bought OTC as an\nointment in a tube. The doctor I listen to on the radio says to apply\nit for 30 days, while you are taking other antibiotics by mouth.\n", "\nThere are two things at work here ... the public insurance is very\nwide in what it will cover, as the amortization is also universal.\nNo private plan can boast of a plan that fits a Gaussian curve ...\nand as our private sector has discovered, they're better off not\noffering insurance coverage that their customers are going to use.\n(-;\n\n\nThe alternative to the system is no system at all (patients opted out,\ndoctors opted out, or both). But that only for insurance ... and you\ncan't force a private insurance company to sell you a plan that they\nwill not offer. And remember that the actual health care is delivered\nby private entities who collect from the public insurance voluntarily.\nAgain, they can't force a private entity to spring to life to pay them.\n\nPlus, there is the matter of culture and values ... I'm basically\nanti-tax and anti-government, by Canadian standards ... yet I can't\nbring myself to make the same arguments as you do, despite that I\nunderstand where you're coming from. Up north, you're so much more\nlikely to find someone protesting taxes going to defence than health\ninsurance premiums to only one fund for basic coverage ...\n\n\nYes, primarily in Quebec and in Alberta. Sorry, I musta lost you in\nthat verbose blurb ...\n\n\nIn Canada and Germany, it's not mandatory. However, it is negative\noption in that you must request the exemption. That the private\nsector will not provide private basic coverage if offered the option\n(as in the Quebec case) tells me something about what they know ...\n\n\nYes, but part of the reason is that our most of our markets are\ntoo small to sustain many specialists, sometimes not even one, so\nyou pretty well have to be a GP to get paid. And if you do get\nthe training, the doctors monopoly might block your getting of a\nlicence because there is already someone in the business and who\ncannot fill his/her appointment book. That we have a CMA doctors\nmonopoly is something that the American AMA-oriented medical lobby\nNEVER tells you down here ...\n\n\nNo, I respect people who do specialties (okay, all of my MD friends\nare (-;) but there's the question of our small market dynamics up\nnorth ... if anything, that our private doctors and hospitals sell\ntheir services to Americans to generate more business will inflate\ntheir effective population served, and thus make some specialties\nfinally viable (i.e., there will be enough customers). We just do\nnot have enough sick Canadians in absolute numbers otherwise.\n\n\nUh ... Germany basically uses our method, with their many sickness\nfunds. The competition is fake if it exists at all, because they're\nall interlinked. Look in Der Spiegel or Stern (my girlfriend is in\nour German department and her uncle is a private practicioner in\nSaarbrucken) ... no ads for health insurance. While Canada organizes\nby province, Germany organizes the paperwork around big corporations\nand regional offices. But remember that we have provinces that have\nthe same population as some major German corporations. Germans have\npublic health insurance, just that it is brokered by smaller entities\n(actually, brokerage of basic by private firms who'll sell extra\ninsurance to fill out their policies, sort of a voucher system,\nwas one of the first ideas floated in Canada, too).\n\nRemember, the Germans don't have HMO's ... a telling sign, 'cos\nRochester does and they're also a company town.\n\n\nI'll have to let a Canadian MD jump in to verify that claim, but\nI've come to learn to suspect anything in the American press about\nour \"system\". If much or some of it were true, you'd have to take\nus for idiots for tolerating it. And given that our insurance was\ninstalled during a period when there were only Liberal and Tory\ngovernments federally and provincially, and the socialists are still\nchafing, they would've pressed for real socialized medicine to fix\nthings ... think about it. After all, we are using the U.S. as a\nmetric to make comparison ... both for keeping-up-with-the-Joneses\nas for confirming that we did something right.\n\ngld", "I'd dump him. Rude is rude and it seems he enjoys belittling and\nhumiliating you. But don't just dump him, write to him and tell\nhim why you are firing him. If you can, think about sending a copy\nof your letter to whoever is in charge of the clinic where he works, \nif applicable, or maybe even to the AMA. Don't be vindictive in\nyour letter, be truthful but VERY firm.\n\nBut don't be a victim and just put up with it. Take control! It'll\nmake you feel great!\n\nNancy M.", "\nAbout six years ago my ears clogged up with wax, probably as a\nresult of to much headphone use. Anyway, the clinic that cleaned\nthem out used the following procedure:\n\n1. Inject olive oil into ears.\n2. Prevent leakage of oil with cotton.\n3. Come back in an hour.\n4. Rinse ears with warm vater, forcefully injected\n into ear (very strange sensation).\n5. Done.\n\nThey had special tools to do this, and were evidently quite\nfamiliar with the problem: Very large steel syringe. Special\nbowl with cutout for ear to take the grime coming out without\nspillage.\n\n\nSeconded,", "\n\nNo, there's no evidence that would convince any but the most credulous.\n\nThe \"evidence\" is identical to the sort of evidence that has been\nused to justify all sorts of quack treatments for quack diseases\nin the past.\n\n\nI like the implication here. It must not be that the quacks making\nmillions off such \"diseases\" are biased -- rather that those who\ndoubt their existence don't understand the real world. It seems\neasy to picture a 19th centure snake oil salesman saying the same\nthing.\n\nHowever, I have been in the trenches long enough to have seen multiple\nquack diseases rise and fall in popularity. \"Systemic yeast syndome\"\nseems to be making a resurgence (it had fallen off a few years ago).\nThere will be new such \"diseases\" I'm sure with best-selling books\nand expensive therapies.\n\n\nWell this, of course, is convincing. I guess I'd better start diagnosing\nany illnesses that people want so that I can keep my lips.", "ML> From: libman@hsc.usc.edu (Marlena Libman)\nML> I need advice with a situation which occurred between me and a physican\nML> which upset me.\n\nML> My questions: (1) Should I continue to have this doctor manage my care?\n\nThat's easy: No. You wouldn't take your computer into a repair\nshop where they were rude to you, even if they were competent in\ntheir business. Why would you take your own body into a \"repair\nshop\" where the \"repairman\" has such a bad attitude?", "Anyone have any information on the effects/origin of oxaprozin?\nIt's marketed under the name \"DAYpro\", and appears to be an\nanti-inflammatory. Is it similar to naproxin? Stronger?\n\nTIA", "My family doctor and the physiotherapist (PT) she sent me to agree that the\npain in my left shoulder is bursitis. I have an appointment with an orthpod\n(I love that, it's short for 'orthopedic surgeon, apparently) but while I'm\nwaiting the PT is treating me.\n\nShe's using hot packs, ultrasound, and lasers, but there's no improvement\nyet. In fact, I almost suspect it's getting worse.\n\nMy real question is about the laser treatment. I can't easily imagine what\nthe physical effect that could have on a deep tissue problem. Can anyone\nshed some light (so to speak) on the matter?", "Nutrasweet is a synthetic sweetener a couple thousand times sweeter than\nsugar. Some people are concerned about the chemicals that the body produces \nwhen it degrades nutrasweet. It is thought to form formaldehyde and known to\nfor methanol in the degredation pathway that the body uses to eliminate \nsubstances. The real issue is whether the levels of methanol and formaldehyde\nproduced are high enough to cause significant damage, as both are toxic to\nliving cells. All I can say is that I will not consume it. \n\nPhenylalanine is\nnothing for you to worry about. It is an amino acid, and everyone uses small\nquantities of it for protein synthesis in the body. Some people have a disease\nknown as phenylketoneurea, and they are missing the enzyme necessary to \ndegrade this compound and eliminate it from the body. For them, it will \naccumulate in the body, and in high levels this is toxic to growing nerve\ncells. Therefore, it is Only a major problem in young children (until around\nage 10 or so) or women who are pregnant and have this disorder. It used to\nbe a leading cause of brain damage in infants, but now it can be easily \ndetected at birth, and then one must simply avoid comsumption of phenylalanine\nas a child, or when pregnant. ", "\nWhen I have trouble it's usually because of water trapped by some\nremaining wax. I don't see why you can't just let it evaporate; it\nshould do this eventually.", "I am not sure if this is the proper group to post this to but here goes anyway.\n\n About five years ago my mother was diagnosed with having cancer in the lymph nodes\n under one of her arms. After the doctors removed the cancerous area she had full movement\n of her arm with only slight aching under her arm when she moved it. Over the course of\n the next two years the aching got more severe and her complaining to the doctors produced\n the explanation that it was scar tissue causing the pain. At this time her doctor \n suggested that some physiotherapy should be employed to break up the scar tissue.\n\n While attending one of her therapy sessions, while her arm was being \n manipulated, some damage occured (nerve?) which caused the level of pain to permanently\n increase severly (controlled by Tylenol 3s) and some loss of use of the arm (\n palsied wrist and almost no outward lateral movement). With great persistence on her part\n the doctors looked further into the issue and discovered that not all of the cancer had\n been removed and another tumor had grown under the arm. This was removed also but the\n pain in the arm has not decreased. The doctors are not sure exactly why the pain is \n persisting but feel some sort of nerve damage has occured and they have employed Tylenol 3\n and soon Morphine to relieve the pain. She has tried acupuncture by this only provides\n minor reductions in pain and is only short term. \n\n My questions are: \n\n Has anyone has heard of similar cases and what, if anything, was done to reduce the\n levels of pain?\n\n Are their methods to block nerves so that the pain can be reduced?\n\n Are their methods to restore nerves so that loss of arm function can be restored?\n\n\n Any general suggestions on pain reduction would be greatly appreciated.\n \n \n Please respond by email because I do not always get chance to read this group.\n\n If anyone knows of some literature that may be useful to this case or another newsgroup\n that I should be posting this to it would also be appreciated.\n \n \n\n\n\n\n\n", "This is not an unusual practice if the doctor is also a\nmember of a nudist colony.\n\n\n", "\nThe difference in the litigation environment is reflected in the fees.\n\nLack of defensive medicine and near-absence of malpractice is really\nwhy we spend less using the most expensive approach of pure insurance\nin Canada (along with France and Germany) without HMO's --- the NYT\nhas admitted that malpractice insurance fees are an order of magnitude\nlower in Canada but doctors take-home pay is almost equal to American\ndoctors; also, minimal bureaucracy 'cos the system is so-o-o simple\n(early March).\n\nPart of the deal for using the all-insurance approach like the French\nand Germans do (hey, why don't they criticize France and Germany? Is\nit because too many people take French and German in college to make\nthe accusations stick? (-;) was to preserve the doctors independance.\nSince the provincial wings of the CMA are the ones that go to bat when\nthe fee schedule hikes are presented, the politically-bent doctors\nwere just cackling when they realized the CMA would grow in strength\nrather than diminish, especially when unopposed unlike in socialized\nmedicine approaches like Britain's National Health Service.\n\n\nFor non-life threatening things, market arguments adequately cover why\ncertain procedures are in scarcer demand. I have MD friends who can't\nmake a living as specialists back in Manitoba not due to the insurance\nrates but because they won't get enough customers -- the CMA medical\nmonopoly's grip on doctors licencing (as in the US) aside -- so they\nmust move to larger places. However, this does not refute debunking\nof waiting lines for urgent AND routine care, as has been done in the\nU.S. by Consumers Reports, health policy studies cited by Prof. Dennis\nE. Shea on USENET, CNN, NYT, etc.\n\nDoug Fierro has posted a NYT article from 3 weeks ago about Canada's\nhealth insurance approach, on Talk.politics.medicine. There is one\nsmall error in the article: not all of our hospitals are private.\n\n\nOf course, the one thing to note is that in the Canada/France/Germany\ncase, private insurance *offloaded* the basic coverage to the public\nsector. They realized they were keeping low-risk/high-profit extra\ninsurance for things like private/semi-private rooms (vs. ward\naccomodation), dental, glasses, etc. for corporate or personal\nbenefits, they'll have nothing to do with you if you want to be\ncovered for basic care.\n\nAt that point, they wouldn't even consider a \"voucher\" approach\nto broker the universal coverage and sell policies to make up\nthe difference in the federal guidelines and market stuff.\n\n\nIt is \"free\" in that there are no deductibles nor copayments (two\nthings which I advocate to make the Canadian insurance look more like\nreal health insurance -- which actually it is). I know that when\nworking in Alberta, Ontario and Quebec, I was aware that I was paying\nfor health insurance - e.g., in Toronto, OHIP fees were listed on my\npay stub; Manitoba did not collect at paycheque time, but only\nannually at income tax time (built into the tax rate). Only fiscal\nnaifs will proclaim that it's free, along with the Canadian Left for\nthat is part of their brainwashing agenda.\n\nThe French do have copayments, though. France Magazine's Summer \n1992 edition has a fantastic presentation of their basic insurance\ncoverage, including a sample chart of copayment percentages. For \n1-30 days, you're covered for 80% of the public hospital rate, 100%\nafterward. With extra private insurance, you can get into a private\nhospital and be covered for any differences beyond the public hospital\nrate. The public insurance covers 100% beyond 30 days, or the same\ncash amount for a private hospital and the difference is paid\nout-of-pocket or according to your supplementary private insurance.\nOver 2/3rds of French have some form of extra private insurance. So,\nthe other 30% of health costs in Europe are out of private funds, not\ngleaned from other taxes. The GDP figures are combined public and\nprivate expenditures for total outlay using the same methods that\nyield the 13-14% figure for the U.S.\n\n\nHealth insurance does exist in Canada and in Western Europe, its\njust that it doesn't cover basic care. You can opt out in Canada\nand Germany, but you'll have to go uninsured as a result because\nthere are too few other people that do so --- i.e., no market.\n\nWhen private insurance realized how much money they'd make without the\nrisks involved in basic insurance (e.g., neurosurgery) versus deluxe\namenities (e.g., having to call Granada TV to replace a rental set on\nthe fritz in someone's private hospital room), they started to pat\nthemselves on the back for their social responsibility. In Quebec\nlast spring, a consortium of private insurers publicly warned against\nany thoughts of privatizing routine, low cost parts of that province's\npublic health insurance plan.\n\ngld", "The reason I'm posting this article to this newsgroup is to:\n1. gather any information about this disorder from anyone who might\n have recently been *e*ffected by it ( from being associated with\n it or actually having this disorder ) and\n2. help me find out where I can access any medical literature associated\n with seizures over the internet.\n\nRecently, I had a baby boy born with seizures which occured 12-15 hours\nafter birth. He was immediately transferred to a major hospital in Boston\nand has since been undergoing extensive drug treatment for his condition.\nThis has been a major learning experience for me and my wife not only in\nlearning the medical problems that faced our son but also in dealing with\nhospitals, procedures...etc.\n\nI don't want to go into a lot of detail, but his condition was termed \nquite severe at first then slowly he began to grow and put on weight\nas a normal baby would. He was put on the standard anti-convulsion drugs\nand that did not seem to help out. His MRI, EKG, cat-scans are all normal,\nbut the EEG's show alot of seizure activity. After many metabolic tests,\nbody structure tests, and infection/virus tests the doctors still do not\nknow quite what type of siezures he is having (although they do have alot\nof evidence that it is now pointing to infantile spasms ). This is where\nwe stand right now....", "\n\nThe yearly chest x-ray provides a minute amount of radiation. It is\na drop in the bucket as far as increased risk is concerned. Who can\ntell you whether you can get out of it or not? No one here controls\nthat. It may well be a matter of the law, in which case, write your\nlegislator, but don't hold your breath.\n\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "\nSince our doctors are private and the \"system\" is just an insurance\nplan, litigation would not involve the insurance fund. Our lawyers\ndo not work on contingency, so that if you were to sue for malpractice\nthen you'd better be sure of winning to cover your fees ... likewise,\nif you were a doctor and subject of a suit, it's time to sweat.\n\n\nA few weeks ago, the president of the Canadian MA wrote a letter to\nthe NYT to decry a lobbyist's advert repeating the same old trash.\nThis is significant because the AMA and the CMA are interlinked\norganizations and he would not have done it without the approval \nof his AMA cronies.\n\n\nIt serves the same purpose as the Bethesda Naval Hospital ... since\nnot all hospitals can provide everything, maybe they have some stuff\nthat others don't? (Ottawa's population is only a quarter million,\nif you include the surrounding counties.)\n\n\nPeople of influence will get their way in any system, American or\nEuropean. It's the \"Golden Rule\" - he who has the gold makes the\nrules. (-;\n\nAs for annual budgets, those are actually annual grants for facilities\n(e.g., mops, pans, etc.) given to hospitals of which most are private\nnonprofit foundations (btw, I have no problem with having aggressive\nfor-profit hospitals like the French, who use our approach ... but in\nthe Paris region they have almost as many people as Canada does so\ntheir market is much more diverse). The rest has to be made up for\nby billings from patients who use their services.\n\n\nThe GDP figures are combined public and private expenditures for total\noutlay, and are compiled use the same methods by the OECD that yield \nthe 13-14% figure for the U.S.\n\n\nHow? They are collecting premiums ... and I'm an advocate of having\ncopayments like the French do in their system in order to make it look\nmore like the real insurance that it is. The private doctors and \nhospitals will still be there after the insurance (hypothically)\ndisappears, as they were there before it appeared.\n\n\nFor one thing, I think that Bob Rae is an idiot ...\n\n\nMost of OHIP comes from separate premiums on your paycheck if you are\na player ... he wants to spend our money on other things than the\nhealth insurance. Our high taxes are high for other spending but\nhealth insurance, which is separate and optional, and it is being \nspent in a nonpartisan manner by every party. )-;\n\nOHIP is just a health insurance plan; it does not provide any kind\nof health care, that is up to you and your private doctors.\n\n\nSome of the companies providing extra insurance are subsidiaries of\nAmerican companies, and their parents provide full insurance down\nhere. Regardless, all firms up north can easily turn on cable TV\nto see how well the American firms are doing by being involved in\nbasic coverage. The private firms are making too much money after\nhaving gotten rid of basic coverage. They run around patting them-\nselves on the back for their own cooperation in providing extras \nfor those people who \"deserve it\".\n\n\nI agree ... they were in a win-win situation. But right now, it seems\nthat they have won bigger, when you look at how full their coffers\nare. Friends from my sisters' MBA class were still being flown out\nfor job interviews individually with insurance firms in London, ON,\n(Canada's insurance capitol a la Hartford) along with generous expense\nprivileges this year despite the ongoing post-recession blues.\n\ngld", "The subject-line says it: every time I run a fever, I get an amazing\nrosy rash over my torso and arms. Fortunately, it doesn't itch.\n\nThe rash always comes on the day after the\nfever breaks and no matter what the illness was: cold, flu, whatever.\nIt started happening about four years ago after I moved to my current\ntown, although I don't know if that has anything to do with anything.\n\nSeverity and persistance of the rash seems to vary with the fever:\na severe or long-lasting fever brings a long-lasting rash. A mild fever\nseems to bring rashes that go away faster. \n\nAnybody know what might be causing this? It's no more than an \nembarassment, but I'd be curious to know what's going on. Am I carrying\nsome kind of fever-resistant bug that goes wild when fever knocks out\nits competition?", "The biggest reason why the cost of medical care is so EXTREMELY high and\nincreasing is that NATURAL methods of treatment and even diagnosis are still\nbeing SYSTEMATICALLY IGNORED and SUPPRESSED by the MONEY-GRUBBING and POWER-\nMONGERING \"medical\" establishment.\n Some examples of very low cost NATURAL ANTI-cancer Remedies are listed in\nthe following article:\n\n\n NATURAL ANTI-CANCER REMEDIES\n A 3RD OPINION\n \n ( Some of these Remedies also work against AIDS. )\n\n\n DISCLAIMER: This list was compiled from unorthodox sources \n that have shown themselves to be reliable. The compiler of \n this list is NOT a doctor of any kind, but is exercising his \n First Amendment Constitutional RIGHT of FREE SPEECH on the \n subjects of his choice. \n\n\n ( MOST of these Remedies can be found in ANY Grocery Store. \n MOST of the rest of them can be found in ANY Health Food \n Store. What is important is HOW they are used, and what \n else is EXCLUDED DURING their use. )\n\n\n (1) THE 7-DAY FAST. \n 1st day: Eat as much fresh fruit as you want, one kind \n at a time, preferably grapes. \n 2nd day: Eat all the vegetables you want, at least half \n raw, including GARLIC; also, whole kernel corn to help scrape \n clean the intestinal linings. \n 3rd day: Drink all the fresh fruit and vegetable juice \n you want. Preferably start with 16 to 32 ounces of prune \n juice WITH PULP, followed by a gallon of pure (NOT from \n concentrate) apple juice, then grape juice. (Stay close to \n your home bathroom.) \n 4th day: Eat all the UN-salted nuts (NO peanuts) and \n dried fruit you want, preferably raisins and almonds (ALMONDS \n CONTAIN LAETRILE.). \n 5th day: ONE GALLON OF LEMONADE. Squeeze the juice from \n two lemons into a gallon of water (preferably distilled), and \n add 2 to 4 tablespoons of locally-made honey, (NO sugar). \n Drink one glass per hour.\n [EVERYone, including healthy people, should do this one day \n every week, preceded by a large glass of prune juice WITH \n PULP.] \n 6th day: Same as 5th day. \n 7th day: Same as 6th day. \n All 7 days, eat ONLY the foods listed above for each \n day, along with your usual vitamin and mineral supplements, \n plus as much DISTILLED WATER as you want. \n\n (2) THE GRAPE DIET. \n Eat 2 to 3 ounces of fresh grapes every 2 hours, 8 AM to \n 8 PM, every day for six days. Eat NOTHING else during the \n six days, but drink as much DISTILLED WATER as you want. \n \n (3) APPLE CIDER VINEGAR.\n Mix a teaspoon of pure apple cider vinegar (NOT apple \n cider \"flavored\" vinegar. Regular vinegar is HARMFUL.) in a \n glass of water (preferably distilled) and drink all of it. \n Do this 3 or 4 times per day, for 3 weeks; then stop for a \n week. Repeat if desired. Do this along with a normal \n healthy diet of natural foods. This remedy is especially \n effective against those types of cancer that resemble a \n FUNGUS, as well as against other kinds of fungus infections. \n \n (4) THE SEA-SALT & SODA BATH. [Please keep an OPEN MIND.]\n Fill a bathtub with moderately warm water so the level \n comes up almost to the overflow drain when you get in. \n Immerse yourself in it for a minute, and then completely \n dissolve in the bath water 1 pound of SUN-evaporated SEA-salt \n (regular salt won't work.) and 1 pound of fresh baking-soda. \n Soak in this bath for 10 to 20 minutes, while exercising \n your fingers, toes, and limbs, turning sideways and onto your \n stomach, dunking your head, sitting up and laying back down, \n chomping your teeth together, etc.. \n Among other things, the SEA-salt & Soda Bath neutralizes \n the accumulated effects of X-rays, etc., as described in the \n book \"Born To Be Magnetic, Vol. 2\", by Frances Nixon, 1973. \n PRECAUTIONS: Only the ONE person using each bath should \n prepare it and drain it.\n For at least 30 minutes after taking the bath, stay away \n from, and even out of sight of, other people. (Your greatly \n expanded Aura energy-field during that time could disrupt \n other people's fields.) Two hours after the bath, eat at \n least 8 ounces of yogurt containing ACTIVE Yogurt Cultures. \n (The bath may kill FRIENDLY bacteria also.) Better yet, take \n a 2-Billion-bacteria \"Acidophilus\" capsule, which is also an \n EXCELLENT DAILY REMEDY AGAINST THE EFFECTS OF \"A.I.D.S.\" \n (because it kills all kinds of harmful bacteria in the \n digestive tract, taking a big load off the remaining immune \n system). [Because this external bath can kill IN-ternal \n bacteria, it may also be a CURE for \"Lyme disease\".]\n Do NOT take this bath within a few hundred miles of a thunder \n storm, within 3 days of a full moon, nor during \"Major\" or \n \"Minor Periods\" as listed in the \"Solunar Tables\" published \n bimonthly in \"Field & Stream\" Magazine, (because of the \n measurable disruptive ambient environmental energy-fields \n present at those times).\n Do NOT take this bath more than four times per year. \n \n (5) MISCELLANEOUS NATURAL ANTI-CANCER REMEDIES: \n \n For skin cancer, apply STABILIZED Aloe Vera Jel to the \n affected skin twice daily, and take 2 to 4 tablespoons \n per day of STABILIZED Aloe Vera Juice internally, for \n about 2 months. \n \n D.M.S.O. (Dimethyl Sulfoxide) causes cancer cells to \n perform NORMAL cell functions. \n\n ALMONDS (UN-blanched, UN-roasted) CONTAIN LAETRILE. \n To help prevent cancer, eat several almonds every day. \n To help cure cancer, eat several OUNCES of almonds per \n day.\n [NEVER take large concentrated doses of Laetrile orally. \n IT WILL KILL YOU! Take it INTRAVENOUSLY ONLY. (Cancer \n cells contain a certain enzyme which converts Laetrile \n into cyanide, which then kills the cell. This enzyme is \n ALSO present in the digestive system.)] \n\n ANTI-OXIDANTS are FREE-RADICAL SCAVENGERS, and include \n Vitamin E, Selenium (200 mcg. per day is safe for most \n people.), Chromium (up to 100 mcg. per day), Vitamin A \n (25,000 IU per day is safe for most people.), Superoxide \n Dismutase (up to 4,000,000 Units per day), Vitamin C (up \n to 3000 mg. per day), and BHT (Butylated Hydroxy-\n toluene), [1 to 4 capsules of BHT every night at bedtime \n will also MAKE ONE IMMUNE AGAINST HERPES (BOTH types), \n suppress herpes symptoms if one already has herpes, \n prevent spreading herpes to other people, but will not \n cure herpes. BHT MIGHT ALSO DO THESE THINGS AGAINST \n \"A.I.D.S.\", which is really a form of cancer similar to \n leukemia.] (See the book \"Life Extension\", by Durk \n Pearson and Sandy Shaw.) \n\n HYDROGEN-PEROXIDE. Dilute twelve(12) drops of 3% \n hydrogen-peroxide in a glass of pure water (preferably \n DISTILLED) and drink it. Do this once or twice per day, \n hours before or after eating or drinking anything else. \n Apply 3% hydrogen-peroxide directly to skin cancers \n several times per day.\n Use hydrogen-peroxide ONLY if you are taking a good \n daily dose of some of the various anti-oxidants \n described above. \n\n VITAMIN & MINERAL SUPPLEMENTS are more effective, and \n much less expensive, when COMBINED together in MEGA \n doses into SINGLE tablets made from NATURAL sources. \n\n Cancer cells can NOT live in a strong (100,000 Maxwell) \n NORTH MAGNETIC FIELD, especially if it is pulsating on \n and off. [A strong south magnetic field is an \n aphrodisiac.] In my opinion, ALL types of ionizing-\n radiation treatments for cancer should be REPLACED with \n daily 30-minute doses of pulsating 100,000-Maxwell NORTH \n magnetic fields. \n\n Properly made and operated RADIONICS/PSIONICS MACHINES \n can both diagnose and cure all forms of cancer, as well \n as most other medical problems. Some Radionics/Psionics \n Machines can even take cross-sectional X-ray-like photos \n of cancer tumors, etc., with-OUT X-rays! \n\n INTERFERON tablets.\n\n TAHEEBO TEA, (Lapacho). \n \n HOMEOPATHY can cure cancer, and many other medical \n problems (even drug addiction!). \n\n 50 mg. per day of CHELATED ZINC can help prevent or cure \n prostate trouble. \n\n This list is NOT exhaustive. \n\n\n The above NATURAL Remedies can CURE both diagnosed AND UN-\n DIAGNOSED cancers, as well as PREVENT them, and also prevent \n and cure many other medical problems including heart-\n diseases. They are NOT too simple and inexpensive to work \n effectively. \n\n Besides acting on a person biologically and chemically, these \n remedies, especially The 7-Day Fast and The Grape Diet, send \n a strong message to one's subconscious mind, PROGRAMMING it \n to CURE the cancer. \n\n In my opinion, if a person finds out that s/he has cancer, \n then s/he should promptly try at least the first 4 remedies \n described above, in sequence (starting with The 7-Day Fast), \n BEFORE resorting to the UN-natural and expensive mutilations \n and agonies [POISON, BURN, and MUTILATE!] of orthodox cancer \n treatment [organi$ed-CRIME!]. \n \n \n DISCLAIMER: This list was compiled from unorthodox sources \n that have shown themselves to be reliable. The compiler of \n this list is NOT a doctor of any kind, but is exercising his \n First Amendment Constitutional RIGHT of FREE SPEECH on the \n subjects of his choice. \n\n\n FOR MORE INFORMATION, contact Cancer Control Society, 2043 N. \n Berendo St., Los Angeles, CA 90027, and/or other organiza-\n tions listed in the \"Alternative Medicine\" and \"Holistic \n Medicine\" portions of the \"Health and Medical Organizations\" \n Section (Section 8) of the latest edition of the \"Encyclope-\n dia of Associations\" reference book in your local public or \n university library. \n\n\n UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this \n IMPORTANT Information is ENCOURAGED. \n", "\n\n\n\n\nI have indeed heard of Pythagoras, but I don't know that he was ever\ndisparaged as a \"bean eater\". In the American Southwest and West\n(e.g., Texas, California, Colorado), the term \"bean eater\" is\nsometimes used as a slur against those of Hispanic heritage (generally\nMexicans, in those parts) -- much like how the Irish in the Northeast\nare perceived (by some) as voracious beer guzzlers.", "I need some information on the implications of receiving\ncortisone shots for a seasonal allergic condition. ", "A bit more than a year ago, a hernia in my right groin was\ndiscovered. It had produced a dull pain in that area. The hernia\nwas repaired using the least intrusive (orthoscopic?) method and a\n\"plug and patch\".\n\nThe doctor considered the procedure a success.\n\nA few months later the same pain returned. The doctor said that\nhe could find nothing wrong in the area of the hernia repair.\n\nNow the pain occurs more often. My GP couldn't identify any\nspecific problem. The surgen who performed the original procedure\nnow says that yes there is a \"new\" hernia in the same area and he\nsaid that he has to cut into the area for the repair this time.\n\nMy question to the net: Is there a nonintrusive method to\ndetermine if in fact there is a hernia or if the pain is from\nsomething else?", "A friend has what is apparently a fairly minor case of Crohn's\ndisease.\n\nBut she can't seem to eat certain foods, such as fresh vegetables,\nwithout discomfort, and of course she wants to avoid a recurrence.\n\nHer question is: are there any nutritionists who specialize in the\nproblems of people with Crohn's disease ?\n\n(I saw the suggestion of lipoxygnase inhibitors like tea and turmeric).", "Greeting\n\nI am starting work on a project where I am trying to make strain gages\nbond to bone in vivo or a period of several months. I am currently\nusing hydroxyapaptite back gages, and I have tried M-bonding the gages\nto the bone. Apart from those two application methods there doesn't\nseem to be much else in the literature. I have only an engineering \nbackground not medical or biological. I would be interest in any\nideas about how to stimulte bone growth on the surface of cortical bone.\n\nThanks for oyur help in Advance.", "\n\nIf you use MEK for your sake wear safty glasses or better still\nindustrial goggles. The small est drop in the eye will casue\nblindness by a catalysis reaction that is non cureavble once it starts.\nThe results are similar to mustard gas contamination. Note MEK peroxide\nis a hardner form fibreglass resins.", "\nI don't like the term \"quack\" being applied to a licensed physician David.\nQuestionable conduct is more appropriately called unethical(in my opinion).\nI'll give you some examples.\n\n\t1. Prescribing controlled substances to patients with no \n\t demonstrated need(other than a drug addition) for the medication.\n\n\t2. Prescribing thyroid preps for patients with normal thyroid \n\t function for the purpose of quick weight loss.\n\n\t3. Using laetril to treat cancer patients when such treatment has \n\t been shown to be ineffective and dangerous(cyanide release) by \n\t the NCI.\n\nThese are errors of commission that competently trained physicians should \nnot committ but sometimes do. There are also errors of omission(some of \nwhich result in malpractice suits). I don't think that using anti-fungal \nagents to try to relieve discomfort in a patient who you suspect may be \nhaving a problem with candida(or another fungal growth) is an error of \ncommission or omission. Healers have had a long history of trying to \nrelieve human suffering. Some have stuck to standard, approved procedures,\nothers have been willing to try any reasonable treatment if there is a \nchance that it will help the patient. The key has to be tied to the \nhealer's oath, \"I will do no harm\". But you know David that very few \ntreatments involve no risk to the patient. The job of the physician is a \nvery difficult one when risk versus benefit has to be weighed. Each \nphysician deals with this risk/benefit paradox a little differently. Some \nare very conservative while others are more agressive. An agressive \napproach may be more costly to the patient and carry more risk but as long \nas the motive is improving the patient's health and not an attempt to rake \nin lots of money(through some of the schemes that have been uncovered in \nthe medicare fraud cases), I don't see the need to label these healers as \nquacks or even unethical.\n\nWhat do I reserve the term quack for? Pseudo-medical professionals. \nThese people lurk on the fringes of the health care system waiting for the \nfrustrated patient to fall into their lair. Some of these individuals are \nreally doing a pretty good job of providing \"alternative\" medicine. But \nmany lack any formal training and are in the \"business\" simply to make a \nfew fast bucks. While a patient can be reasonably assured of getting \ncompetent care when a liscenced physician is consulted, this alternative \ncare area is really a buyer's beware arena. If you are lucky, you may find \nsomeone who can help you. If you are unlucky, you can loose a lot of \nmoney and develop severe disease because of the inability of these pseudo-\nmedical professional to diagnose disease(which is the fortay of the \nliscened physicians).\n\nI hope that this clears things up David.", "\nI've tried it, and so has one friend of mine. No known side effects or\nrisks. It didn't seem to work for us, but several studies now have \nsuggested it does work for many people, so I think it's worth a try.\n\nYou can find it in capsule form at health food stores. Up to six capsules\na day was recommended, if I remember correctly. It can also be prepared \nas a tea.\n\nGood luck,", "\nIt sounds as though you might want to try a product such as \"super-glue\".\nThe active ingredient is cynoacrylate, the same compound used to reconstruct\nbones. I have successfully used superglue for a number of procedures on many\ndifferent species of animal. If you are simply trying to adhear something\nto bone for several months, this would be ideal. It bonds almost immediatly,\nis resistant to infection, and is non-irritating to surrounding tissue.\n\nPhil Bowman, Manager\nLab Animal Resources\nUniversity of Montana\nMissoula, MT 59812\nlarpjb@selway.umt.edu\n:wg\n\n\n-- \n", "Hello,\n\nI am writing a grant proposal for a Developmental Genetics class and I\nhave chose to look at the Neurofibromatosis 1 gene and its variable\nexpressivity. I am curious what has already been done on this subject,\nespecially the relationship between specific mutations and the resulting\nphenotype. My literature search has produce many references, but I want to\nmake sure I am proposing new research. If anyone knows aything that has been\nrecently or key peopl doing research to search for using MEDLINE, I would\napprciate being informed.\n\nThank you.", "\n what is the likely hood of conception if sperm is deposited just outside\nthe vagina? ie. __% chance.\n -------------------------------------------------------------------------\n", "Putting aside our substantial differences, I'd like to ask the knowledgeable\nones to give feedback on this. Let me explain.\n\nOne of my family members last week was discovered to have a brain tumor after\nhaving some difficulties with walking and writing (she is 64 years old).\nOtherwise, she is in fine health. The discovery was made via CAT scans.\n\nShe then had MRI scans done, where small cancerous areas were discovered\nin her lungs. Biopsies showed it to be adenocarcinoma. One spot is\nin the lungs, and another in the pneumothorax. The oncologists believe\nthe cancer started in the lungs and caused the brain tumor (she smoked\nuntil four years ago).\n\nAnyway, I'd like feedback as to what adenocarcinoma is, how it is different\nfrom other cancers, how she will be treated (luckily the tumor is right\nbelow the skull and can be easily removed), and statistically what are\nthe chances for full remission/recovery?\n\nThanks.\n\nJon Noring\n\n-- \n\nCharter Member --->>> INFJ Club.", "\n\nCheck out the DIABETIC mailing list -- a knowledgable, helpful, friendly,\nvoluminous bunch. Send email to LISTSERV@PCCVM.BITNET, with this line\nin the body:\n\nSUBSCRIBE DIABETIC \n\nAlso, the vote for misc.health.diabetes, a newsgroup for general discussion\nof diabetes, is currently underway, and will close on 29 April. From the\n2nd CFV, posted to news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, and sci.med,\nmessage <1q1jshINN4v1@rodan.UU.NET>:", "As nobody in the food industry has even bothered to address my previous\nquestion \"WHY DO YOU NEED TO PUT MSG IN ALMOST EVERY FOOD?\" I must assume\nthat my wife's answer is closer to the truth than I hoped it was.\n\nShe believes that MSG is added to food to cause people to eat more of it\nand not quit when they shoud be sated. To put it a different way, she \nbelieves that for some people MSG causes them to act toward food like an addict. \n(Eat all the chips, chow down on several packages of noodle soup .... you get the\nidea! } IF she is right, then the moral and ethical standards of the \nfood, chemical and regulatory groups need to be addressed!!! Can MSG\nbe considered a conditioning substance (not addictive but sort of habit\nforming) ?\n\nThis brings up a side question of mine. I have noticed that cats (my\nchildren's and my parent's) seem to fixate on a particular brand of pet\nfood. The cat will eat any product within one brand and not any other\nbrand. I have wondered if this is not a case of preference, but, some\nsort of chemical training or addiction. My questions, for the net, are:\nDoes the FDA regulate the contents of pet food? Is it allowed for pet\nfood to contain addictive or conditioning substances? Is MSG put in \npet food?\n\n-----------------------------------\nI speak for myself and not Motorola\n-----------------------------------\n ", "\n\nThey exist. Even photosynthetic varieties. Not economical at this\ntime, though.", "Hi, I am doing a term paper on the syringe and I have found some\ninformation. It is said that Charles Pravaz has invented the hypodermic\nneedle, but then I have also found that Alexander Wood has invented it. \nDoes anyone know which one it is, of if it was anyone else? If there is\nanymore information that is out there could you please send it to me.\nThank you very much.\nBecky Olsen\n", "\nFood poisoning is only one of the many possible causes. Yes, even other people\nshare the food. \n\nBoy, you computer people only know 1s and 0s, but not much about logic. :-)\n\nNo. I did not said MSG was not the culprit. What I argued was that that\nthere was enough reasonable doubt to convict MSG. \n\nIf you want to convict MSG, show me the evidence, not quilty by suspicion.\n\n\nNobody is forcing you to change what you believe. But I certainly don't\nwant to see somebody preach to ban pepper because that makes him/her\nsneeze. That is exactly what some anti-MSG activitiests are doing\n\n\nLook, people with a last Chen don't necessarily own a Chinese restaurant.\nI am not interested if you enjoy Chinese food or not. Exploiting my last\nname to discredit me on the issue is hitting below the belt.\n\nWhat I am interested in is the truth. Let me give you an excert from\na recent FDA hearing:\n\n ``There is no evidence orally consumed glutamate has any effect\non the brain,'' said Dr. Richard Wurtman of Massachusetts Institute\nof Technology. The anecdotal experiences of individuals is\n``superstition, not science,'' he said. ``I don't think glutamate\nhas made them sick.''\n\nAnd Dr. Robert Kenney of George Washington University conducted an double\nblind test in 1980 showing that the 35 people who reacted to MSG also\nhad similar reaction when they thought they had MSG but actually not.\n\nAlthough there are many contradicting personal stories told in this group,\nsome of them might have been due to other causes. But because the anti MSG\nemotion runs so high, that some blame it for anything and everything. \n\nMy purpose is to present a balance view on the issue, although I am probably\n20-1 outnumbered.", "You might look for an allergy doctor in your area who uses sublingual\ndrops instead of shots for treatment. (You are given a small bottle of\nantigens; 3 drops are placed under the tongue for 5 minutes.) My\nallergy to bermuda grass was neutralized this way. Throughout the treatment\nprocess I had to return to the doctor's office every month for re-testing\nand a new bottle of antigens. After the allergy was completely neutralized\na bottle of maintenance antigens lasts me about 4 months (the sublingual\ndrops are then taken 3 times per week), and costs $20. So the cost is\nless than shots and it is more convenient just to take the drops at home.", "Following a series of miscarriages, my wife was given a transfusion of\nmy white cells. (The theory as I understand it is that there is some kind\nof immune blocking that prevents the body from attacking the pregnancy as\nit normally would a \"foreign\" body. Where this blocking is deficient, the\nbody evicts the \"intruder\", resulting in a miscarriage. The white cells\napparently enhance the blocking capability.) Following the transfusion, she\nsuccessfully carried the next pregnancy to term, and Jake is now an active\n9 month-old who cannot wait to walk.\n We're now thinking about having another child, but no one (including\nthe OBGYN who supervised the first transfusion) really seems to know\nwhether or not the transfusion process needs to be repeated for successive\npregnancies.\n Is there anyone in net-land who has experience with this?\nThanks...Gene (and Jane and Jake)", "\nThere is a mini-epidemic of Coccidiodes that is occurring in,\nI believe, the Owen's Valley/ Bishop area east of the Sierras.\nI don't believe there has been any great insight into the\nincreased incidence in that area. There is a low-level\nof endemic infection in that region. Many people with\nevidence of past exposure to the organism did not have\nserious disease.", "\nIt depends on the cause of the pneumonia. For treating bacterial\npneumonia in young otherwise-healthy non-smokers, erythromycin\nis usually considered the antibiotic of choice, since it covers\nthe two most-common pathogens: strep pneumoniae and mycoplasma\npneumoniae.", "Someone I know has recently been diagnosed as having Candida Albicans, \na disease about which I can find no information. Apparently it has something\nto do with the body's production of yeast while at the same time being highly\nallergic to yeast. Can anyone out there tell me any more about it?\n\nThanks.", "\nHow about Cockroaches?", "I'm a fellow applicant and my situation is not too much better. I applied\nto about 20 schools, got two interviews, got one offer, and am waiting to\nhear from the other school.\n\nLet me be honest about my experiences and impressions about the medical\nschool admissions process. Numbers (GPA, MCATs) are not everything, \nbut they are probably more important than anything else. In fact, some\nschools screen out applicants based on these numbers and never even look\nat your other qualities. Of course, when this happens, don't expect a refund\non your $50 application fee.\n\nBut, the fact that you got four interviews tells me that you have the numbers\nand are very well qualified academically. You mentioned one response, was it\nan acceptance, denial, or wait-list? If I assume the worst, that it was a\ndenial, then you still have a great probability of acceptance somewhere. How\ndid your interviews go?\n\nAs for how long you have to wait, I've called a few schools who never contacted\nme for anything. Many of them told me that the interview season for them was\nover and that if I haven't heard by now, I can assume a denial. Many rejection\nletters are not sent out until May or as late as June. But some schools are\nstill interviewing. I really don't think you should worry. Don't become\nfixated on the mailbox, go out, have fun, be very proud of yourself.\n\nWhat do people think of the medical school admissions process? I had a very\nmediocre GPA, but high MCAT scores, and I have been working as a software\nengineer for two years. I majored in Computer Science at Stanford. Still,\nI think the profile of the person who has the best chance of getting admitted\nis something like this:\n\nVERY IMPORTANT\n--------------\nGPA:\t3.5 or better\nMCAT: top 15% in all subject\n\nMEDIUM IMPORTANCE\n-----------------\nWriting/Speaking ability\nMaturity\nMotivation for going into medicine\nActivities\n\nLESS IMPORTANT\n--------------\nCollege or University\nMajor\nWork experience\nAnything else you want them to know\n\n\nAnyway, you are in good shape. I think admissions committees are bound in\nmany ways by the numbers, but would like very much to understand each\nperson as an individual. Sometimes thats just not practical. But getting \nfour interviews is an indicator that you have the numbers. Hopefully, you\nwere able to impress them with your character.\n", "\n The following is from a critique of a \"60 Minutes\" presentation on MSG\n which was aired on November 3rd, 1991. The critique comes from THE TUFTS\n DIET AND NUTRITION LETTER, February 1992. [...edited for brevity...]\n\n\t\"Chances are good that if you watched '60 Minutes' last November\n\t3rd [1991], you came away feeling MSG is bad for you. [...] In\n\tthe segment entitled 'No MSG,' for instance, show host Ed Bradley\n\tmakes alarming statements without adequately substantiating them\n\t('millions are suffering a host of symptoms, and some get violently\n\tsick'); peppers his report with sensational but clinically unproven\n\tpersonal testimony...; and speaks of studies on MSG that make the\n\tsubstance seem harmful without explaining just how inconclusive \n\tthose studies are.\n\n\tConsider his making reference at the beginning of the program to\n\ta study conducted at the Eastern Virginia Medical School in order\n\tto back up his comment that there is 'a lot of evidence' that MSG,\n\ta flavor enhancer in Chinese and other Asian cuisines as well as\n\tin many supermarket items, causes headaches. What he does NOT\n\tmake reference to is the fact that the study was performed not on\n\thumans but on rabbits.\n\n\tOne of the researchers who conducted the study, pharmacologist\n\tPatricia Williams, Ph.D., says it certainly is conceivable that\n\ta small minority of people are sensitive enough to MSG to get \n\theadaches from it. 'But,' she explains, 'the show probably \n\toveremphasized the extent of the problem.'\n\n\tA second lapse comes with mention of Dr. John Olney, a professor\n\tat the Washington University School of Medicine who, Mr. Bradley\n\tremarks, 'says that his 20 years of research with laboratory\n\tanimals shows MSG is a hazard for developing youngsters' because\n\tit poses a threat of irreversible brain damage. Dr. Olney's\n\tresearch with lab animals does not 'show' anything about human\n\tyoungsters.\n\n\tIn fact, only under extreme circumsrtances did Dr. Olney's \n\texperiments ever bring about any brain damage: when he injected\n\textremely high doses of MSG into rodents, completely bypassing \n\ttheir digestive tracts and entering their bloodstreams more directly,\n\tand when he used tubes to force-feed huge amounts of the substance\n\tto very young animals on an empty stomach. Of course, neither\n\tof those procedures occurs with humans; they simply take in MSG \n\twith food. And most of what they take in is broken down by\n\tenzymes in the wall of the small intestine, so that very little\n\treaches the bloodstream -- much to little, in fact, for human\n\tblood levels of MSG to come anywhere near the high concentrations\n\tfound in Dr. Olney's lab animals.....\n\n\tThe World Health Organization appears to be very much aware of\n\tthat fact. And so does the European Communities' Scientific\n\tCommittee for Food....Both, after examining numerous studies,\n\thave concluded that MSG is safe.\n\n\tTheir determination makes sense, considering that MSG has never\n\tbeen proven to cause all the symptoms that have been attributed\n\tto it -- headaches, swelling, a tightness in the chest, and a\n\tburning sensation, among others. In fact, the most fail-safe\n\tof clinical studies, the double-blind study..., has consistently\n\texonerated the much-maligned substance.\n\n\tThat's quite fortunate since the alleged hazardous component of\n\tmonosodium glutamate, glutamate, enters our systems whenever\n\twe eat any food that contains protein. The reason is that one\n\tof the amino acids that make up protein, glutamic acid, is broken\n\tdown into glutamate during digestion.\n\n\tIt's a breakdown that occurs frequently. Glutamic acid is the\n\tmost abundant of the 20 or so amino acids in the diet. It makes\n\tup about 15 percent of the protein in flesh foods, 20 percent in\n\tmilk, 25 percent in corn, and 29 percent in whole wheat.\n\n\tThat doesn't mean it's entirely unimaginable that a small number\n\tof people have trouble metabolizing MSG properly and are therefore\n\tsensitive to it...The consensus reached by large, international\n\tprofessional organizations [is that MSG is safe], the same consensus\n\treached by the FDA and the biomedical community at large.\"\n", "I am looking for information on possible causes and long term effects\nof bone marrow sclerosis. I would also be thankful if anyone reading\nthis newsgroup could list some recognized treatment centers if anything\nelse than massive blood transfusion can be effective. If you plan on\na \"go to the library\"-style reply, please be kind enough to add a list \nof suggested topics or readings: Medicine is not my field.", "\nGood grief again.\n\nWhy the anger? I must have really touched a raw nerve.\n\nLet's see: I had symptoms that resisted all other treatments. Sporanox\ntotally alleviated them within one week. Hmmm, I must be psychotic. Yesss!\nThat's it - my illness was all in my mind. Thanks Steve for your correct\ndiagnosis - you must have a lot of experience being out there in trenches,\ntreating hundreds of patients a week. Thank you. I'm forever in your\ndebt.\n\nJon\n\n(oops, gotta run, the men in white coats are ready to take me away, haha,\nto the happy home, where I can go twiddle my thumbs, basket weave, and\nmoan about my sinuses.)\n\n-- \n\nCharter Member --->>> INFJ Club.", "\nSenile keratoses. Have nothing to do with the liver.\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "\nHi there\nI'm suffering from Sarcoidosis at present. Although it's shown as a\nchronic & rare tissue disorder, it is thankfully NOT life threatening.\n\nThe very worsed thing that can happen to a non-treated sufferer is\nglaucoma. My specialists are bombarding me with Prednisolone E.C. (a\ncortico-steriod) and after four months at 20mg a day, it's totally done\naway with my enlarged lymph glands, so somethings happening for the\ngood!\n\nCheers Nigel", "Here is a press release from Medical Science Communications.\n\n Results of GUSTO Heart Attack Study to be Released Friday\n To: Assignment Desk, Medical Writer\n Contact: Jim Augustine of Medical Science Communication,\n 703-644-6824, or Steve Hull or Tracy Furey,\n 800-477-9626 or April 29-30, 202-393-2000 or\n 202-662-7592 (J.W. Marriott)\n\n News Advisory:\n\n Results of the largest heart attack study ever undertaken,\nthe Global Utilization of Streptokinase and t-PA for Occluded\nCoronary Arteries trial (GUSTO), will be presented Friday, April\n30, at the Clinical Research Meeting.\n A press conference will be held at 12:30 p.m.\n GUSTO evaluates the most aggressive emergency-room treatment\nstrategies available to clear blocked heart arteries and restore\nblood flow to the heart, a process called thrombolysis. The\nthrombolytic strategies compared in GUSTO use powerful drugs to break\nup blood clots in heart vessels quickly and prevent clots from\nrecurring. These strategies have never been compared directly in a\nlarge-scale clinical trial until GUSTO. The results are expected to\nhave an important impact on heart attack treatment worldwide.\n The press conference will be held at two locations: live at the\nNational Press Club, Main Lounge, 13th Floor, 529 14th St., N.W.,\nWashington D.C., and via satellite at The Hotel Macklowe, 145 W. 44th\nStreet, 4th Floor, New York City, between Broadway and 6th Avenue.\n GUSTO results will be presented by Eric Topol M.D., GUSTO Study\nChairman, professor and chairman of the Department of Cardiology at\nThe Cleveland Clinic Foundation; Robert Califf, M.D., clinical\ndirector, GUSTO Coordinating Center and Associate Professor of\nMedicine at Duke University Medical Center; and Allan Ross, M.D.,\ncoordinator of the GUSTO Angiographic Substudy and professor and\ndirector of the Division of Cardiology at The George Washington\nUniversity Medical Center.\n ------\n Editorial Notes/Attention television: The press conference may be\nviewed in its entirety via satellite starting at 12:30 p.m. (EDT)\nC-band Telestar 302, Transponder 2V (dual audio 6.2, 6.8) or KUSBS6,\nTransponder 8. Following the press conference, there will be a news\npackage and b-roll feed. Camera-ready illustrations also will be\navailable at the press conference.\n Telephone hook up to the press conference is planned.\nAvailability is limited; please call MCS for more information.\n For reporters who will be at the Sheraton Washington attending the\nClinical Research Meeting on Friday morning, minibus transportation\nwill be provided to the press conference. The bus will depart at\n12 p.m.; it also will be available for return to the Sheraton\nafter the press conference.\n For more information, contact Steve Hull or Tracy Furey of MCS,\nfor the GUSTO Study Group, at 800-477-9626; or at the J.W. Marriott\nApril 29 to April 30 at 202-393-2000 or 202-662-7592. For more\ninformation about the Clinical Research Meeting, contact Jim\nAugustine of Medical Science Communications at 703-644-6824.\n\n -30-", "Heat shock proteins are those whose expression is induced in response to\nelevated temperature. Some are also made when organisms are subjected to\nother stress conditions, e.g. high salt. They have no obvious connection\nto what happens when you burn proteins.", "Any rocky mountain spotted fever experts out there ?\n\nThe doctor thinks a friend might have this.\nThe question is, doesn't the tick have to bite you ?\n\nYou frequently find a tick crawling on you after a walk\nin the woods around here, but you tend to notice it before\nit bites you; pulling one out of your skin is something\nyou're not likely to forget.\n\nCan you get the fever without it biting you ? Do they\nsometimes bite you and then let go so you don't realize\nyou were bitten ? I know they will let go once they've had\ntheir fill, but you certainly would notice this (arggh).\n\nSo how do you get the fever if you never pulled a tick\noff yourself (as opposed to finding one merely crawling\non you) ?", "Isn't there a relatively new treatment for kidney stones involving\n a non-invasive use of ultra-sound where the patient is lowered\n into some sort of liquid when he/she undergoes treatment? I'm sure\n I've read about it somewhere. If I remember it correctly it is a\n painless and effective treatment.\n A couple of weeks ago I visited a hospital here in Stockholm and\n saw big signs showing the way to the \"Kidney stone chrusher\" ...\n\n", "Could someone give me some information on the cause, pathophysiology and \nclinical manifestations and treatment of this type of cancer.", "Hello,\nI heard that a certain disease (toxoplasmosys?) is transmitted by cats which\ncan harm the unborn fetus. Does anybody know about it? Is it a problem to \nhave a cat in the same apartment?\n\nThanks\n\n\n", "\n\nNo Cramer it does not. In this instance you are telling porkies to\n*yourself* as well as everyone else. Haven't you ever been to a\ncafe or restaurant and been absalutely stuffed full of goodies and yet\nwhen one more item, just a little different, with a new texture and\na new taste, was presented you *somehow* found the space for it.\n\nMaybe you haven't, so what? It is a widely reported phenomina and\nI reckon the same applies to sex.\n\n\n", "\nJulie, it doesn't necessarily follow that you should use it (MSG or\nsomething else for that matter) simply because you are not allergic\nto it. For example you might not be allergic to (animal) fats, and\nlike their taste, yet it doesn't follow that you should be using them\n(regularly). MSG might have other bad (or good, I am not up on \nknowledge of MSG) effects on your body in the long run, maybe that's\nreason enough not to use it. \n\nAltho' your example of the ulcer is funny, it isn't an\nappropriate comparison at all.", "I heard a short blurb on the news yesterday about an herb called feverfew (?)\nthat some say is good for preventing migraines. I think the news said there\nwere two double-blind studies that found this effective.\n\nDoes anyone know about these studies? Or have experience with feverfew?\nI'm skeptical, but open to trying it if I can find out more about this.\nWhat is feverfew, and how much would you take to prevent migraines (if \nthis is a good idea, that is)? Are there any known risks or side effects\nof feverfew? ", "\nCase Western Reserve Med School teaches nutrition in its own section as\nwell as covering it in other sections as they apply (i.e. B12\ndeficiency in neuro as a cause of neuropathy, B12 deficiency in\nhematology as a cause of megaloblastic anemia), yet I sill\nhold the viewpoint of mainstream medicine: candida can cause\nmucocutaneous candidiasis, and, in already very sick patients\nwith damaged immune systems like AIDS and cancer patients,\nsystemic candida infection. I think \"The Yeast Connection\" is\na bunch of hooey. What does this have to do with how well\nnutrition is taught, anyway?\n\nWell, maybe I'm getting picky, but I always thought that a yeast\nwas one form that a fungus could exist in, the other being the\nmold form. Many fungi can occur as either yeasts or molds, \ndepending on environment. Candida exibits what is known as\nreverse dimorphism - it exists as a mold in the tissues\nbut exists as a yeast in the environment. Should we maybe\ncall it a mold infection? a fungus infection? Maybe we\nshould say it is caused by a mold-like fungus.\n ", "Hi.\n\nMy wife has aquired some thyroidal (sp?) deficiency over the past year\nthat gives symptoms such as needing much sleep, coldness and proneness\nto gaining weight. She has been to a doctor and taken the ordinary (?)\ntests and her values were regarded as low. The doctor (and my wife) are\nnot very interested in starting medication as this \"deactivates\" the \ngland, giving life-long dependency to the drug (hormone?). The last couple of \nmonthes she has been seeing a hoemoepath (sp?) and been given\nsome drops to re-activate either her thyroidal gland and/or the \n'message-center' in the brain (sorry about the approximate language,\nbut I haven't got many clues to what the english terms are, but the \nbrain-area is called the 'hypofyse' in norwegian.) \n\nMy questions are: has anyone had/heard of success in using this approach?\nHer values have been (slowly but) steadily sinking, any comment on the\nprobability of improvement? Although the doctor has told her to 'eat\nnormally', my wife has dieted vigorously to keep her weight as she feels\nthat is part of keeping an edge over the illness/condition, may this\naffect the treatment, development?\n\nI can get the exact figures for her tests for anyone interested, and I\nwill greatly value any information/opinion/experience on this topic.\n\nI don't intend this post to be either a flaming of the established\nmedical profession or a praise for alternatives, I am just relaying\nevents as they have happened.\n\nSincerely,", "ri\n\n\n\nI do agree with you, in a way. The war on drugs has failed, but in my opinion,\nthat doesn't mean we have to give up. Only change the tactics.\n\nFor instance, here are how some penalties should be changed.\n\nDealing Coke -- Death\nDealing Heroin -- Death\nDealing Pot -- Death\nDealing Crack -- Death\n\nThe list goes on and on!!!......\n\nJUST KIDDING!!!\n\nHowever, on a more serious note, I do believe that we should take some money \naway from the foriegn operations in South America and costly border \ninterdiction efforts. (Don't think I'm going to say, \"spend it to educate \npeople\", because I know plenty of educated dopers). Actually, spend it on \nthings like drug treatment programs.\n\nI saw an interesting story on 60 minutes about how the British actually \nprescribe and addict his \"recommended\" dosage, and try to ween him off from it,\nor cut the amount down to levels where it is \"acceptable\". Sounds good so far \nfrom what I heard with a decrease in cost, lower addiction rates by wiping out \nthe dealer's markets, etc. (But that was the only thing I have heard about it.)\n\nHowever, legalizing it and just sticking some drugs in gas stations to be \nbought like cigarettes is just plain silly. Plus, I have never heard of a \nrecommended dosage for drugs like crack, ecstasy, chrystal meth and LSD.\nThe 60 Minute Report said it worked with \"cocaine\" cigarettes, pot and heroin.", "\n I had this one time. I attributed it to a lack of sleep since it disappeared\nafter a few nights of good zzz's.\n\n", "Melissa, there is a simpler procedure called a \"Dorsal slit\" that is\nreally the first step of the usual circumcision. It is simpler and\nquicker, but the pain is about the same as circumcision after the\nanesthetic wears off and the aesthetic result post healing is not as\ngood. See your friendly urologist for more details.\n Len Howard\n.\n", "\nI saw a Lifetime Medical Television show a few months back on travel\nmedicine. It briefly mentioned some drugs which when started two or\nthree days before getting to altitude could assist in acclimitazation.\n\nUnfortunately all that I can recall is that the drug stimulated\nbreathing at night??? I don't know if that makes sense, it seems\nto me that the new drug which stimulates red blood cell production\nwould be a more logical approach, erythropoiten (sp?).\n\nAlas, I didn't record the program, but wish I had, since I live\nat over 7000ft. and my mother gets sick when visiting.\n\nPlease let me know if you get more informative responses.", "\nSometimes I have a problem with doctor's prescribing medicine like\nthis. I of course don't know the exact situation, and\nanti-depressants may work, but it isn't helping the ringing at all, is it?\n\n\n\nMine started about three years back. Turns out I have tinnitus\nbilateral (translation: ringing in both ears, basically ;). If this\nis what it is, she'll probably get used to it. It would keep me up\nand drive me nuts too, but nowadays, I have to plug both my ears with\nmy fingers to check to see if they are ringing. Usually they are, but\nyou get so used to it, it just gets tuned out. Yes, this is what I've\nread about it... not just from my own personal experience.\n\n\n\nMillions have it, according to my physician. You just learn to cope\nwith it (like I mentioned earlier) by ignoring it. It eventually\nbecomes unconscious.\n\nThe doc also said it could be caused by diet (ie: too much caffeine)\nand stress, but I haven't changed my lifestyle much, and it just comes\nand goes (it is always there somewhat, but now I rarely notice it when\nit really \"kicks in\").\n\nAlso, it doesn't necessarily mean there is any hearing loss, either\ncaused by it or causing it. I had an ENT (ear/nose/throat) exam, and\npassed. In fact, my hearing is quite good considering I don't take as\ngood of care of my hearing as I should.\n\nHer reaction is normal. If it is tinnitus, chances are good she'll\nbegin to not even notice it. \n\nThis info is taken mostly from a few \"experts\", my own experience, and\nsome readings (sorry, it was a few years back and don't have any\nspecifics handy).", "I've sent Gordon R. my posts on protein, vitamin C and vitamin A prior to \nposting on internet as a professional courtesy. Somehow I've managed to \ndelete my vitamin A post from my text file. Gordon R. had promised to send \nit back to me but he's pretty mad at me right now so I'll just retype it.\nSince digging through all my references is very time consuming(took me all \nday for that PMS post), I'm not going to cite any references(Gordon R. has \nthem). I'm going to include some of the material from Weinsier and \nMorgan's new Nutrition textbook(which was not in my original material) to \npoint out that what I'm going to say has some support in the medical \ncommunity.\n\nDiet has been know to affect the immune system of man for a very, very long \ntime. Protein has always had the biggest role in infection and I've \nalready covered the role of protein in protecting you against infection.\nNow I'm going to hit what I consider to be the most important nutrient in \nthe U.S. as far as infection is concerned(vitamin A).\n\nWhen vitamin A was originally discovered, it was commonly referred to as \nthe anti-infection vitamin. Many people(Linus Pauling being one) have \ndecided to take this title away from vitamin A and give it to vitamin C\n(which I've already covered). Big mistake(in my opinion). Vitamin A is \nalso getting a reputation as an anti-cancer vitamin(with good reason).\nThe NCI currently has numerous clinical trials in progress to see if \nvitamin A can not only prevent cancer but cure it as well. It's role in \nboth cancer and infection is almost identical(but not quite).\n\nVitamin A comes in two completely different forms(retinol and \nbeta-carotene). Retinol is the animal form and it's toxic, beta-carotene \nis the plant form and it's completely nontoxic. Both retinol and beta-\ncarotene display good absorption in the human gut if bile is present\n(60-80%). The liver stores all of your retinol and doles it out for other \ntissues to use by synthesizing retinol binding protein(RBP). A normal human \nadult liver should have 500,000IU to 1,000,000IU of retinol stored. We \nare born with 10,000IU in our liver. U.S. autopsy has shown that about \n30% of Americans die with the same(or less) amount of vitamin A as they \nwere born with. If you don't believe that nutritional reserves(like that \nof retinol in the liver) are important, then this low vitamin A reserve is \nnot going to affect you. But if you believe(like I do) that the nutrient \nreserves are important, then there is a problem with vitamin A in the U.S.\n\nThe U.S. RDA for vitamin A in an adult male is 1,000 RE or 5,000IU of \nvitamin A. For adult feamles its 800 RE or 4,000IU of vitamin A. Diet \nsurveys show that most Americans are getting this amount of vitamin A\n(either retinol or Beta-carotene) from their diet. But the NRC(National \nResearch Council) was going to release a new RDA table in 1985 that had the \nRDA for both vitamin A and vitamin C raised(C to 90mg per day and A to \n7,500IU per day for adult males). That report and it's recommendations was \nkilled. Why? Concern over the increasing supplementation was the main \nreason. RDAs are set to prevent clinical disease, not to keep nutrient \nreserves full. Many scientist in the U.S. feel that the time has come to \nmove away from the prevention of clinical pathology concept and move \ntowards the promotion of optimum health concept, especially since we have \nsome very good data now that show that nutrient reserves are extremely \nimportant during periods of stress. The nutritonal concervatives won that \nbattle and a new group of scientist were collected to come out with the \n1989 RDA list which lowered the RDA for several nutrients and moved the \ndietary guidelines back to where they were when we first started in the \n1940's(get enough to prevent clinical pathology, but not enough to fill \nthe reserves).\n\nWe know from autopsy that only about 10% of Americans have a liver with a \nnormal vitamin A reserve(500,000IU to 1,000,000IU). I preach nutrient \nreserves to my students and tell them to measure them in their patients.\nBut for vitamin A, only a liver biopsy(or autopsy data) will tell you how \nmuch somebody has stored. We can tell very easily if someone has \noverfilled his or her liver with vitamin A by measuring the serium retinol \nlevel(levels above 450ug/dl are highly suggestive that you have filled your \nliver with vitamin A and it's time to stop taking retinol). The normal \nrange of serum retinol will be 20-100ug/dl. Hypervitaminosis A is \ndiagnosed with a serum retinol level of 2,000ug/dl or higher(Interpretation \nof Diagnostic Test, Wallach, M.D., a Little Brown Series book). This level \nof vitamin A in blood means that medical attention is necessary due to \nvitamin A toxicity. Weinsier and Morgan take a much more conservative \napproach to vitamin A toxicity than does Wallach, as you will see later in \nthis post. Between 450ug/dl and 2,000ug/dl you should have plenty \nof warning that it's time to eliminate the retinol from your diet(headache, \nredness of the skin, hair loss, joint pain).\n\nI tell all my students that will use vitamin A in their practice that they \nhad better monitor the serum retinol level and stop when there are clear \nsigns that the liver is full. You will never really know if the patient \nneeds the vitamin A(because you can not measure the pool in liver) but you \nwill always know when it's time to stop(just like in those vitamin A for \nPMS studies).\n\nBeta-carotene can be taken to fill up your liver with retinol and you will \nnever have to worry about toxicity because the conversion of beta-carotene to \nretinol that occurs in both your gut and your liver will slow down(stops in the \nliver and slows down in the gut) when your liver is full of retinol. But \ntaking Beta-carotene as the source of retinol takes a very long time to \nfill the liver up(I've seen estimates of 20-30 years) if you are in the 30% \nthat only has as much as you were born with in your liver(10,000IU). One \nother problem with beta-carotene, if you have a zinc deficit, you will not \nconvert as much beta-carotene to retinol in the gut or the liver because the \nenxzyme that does this conversion requires zinc. In addition, the release of \nretinol from the liver is a zinc dependent process so a zinc deficit will \ncause a vitamin A deficit even if your liver has plenty of vitamin A.\n\nNow what does vitamin A do in cancer and infection protection? The body \nuses vitamin A(retinol) for many different things. Vision(the first to be \nnailed down and where you see overt clinical pathology) uses the aldehyde\n(retinal) and alcohol(retinol) form of vitamin A. Reproduction uses the \nretinol form and some retinal. Infection and cancer protection uses \nretinoic acid. How do you convert retinol(which your white blood cells \nand the mucosal cells get from blood) to retinoic acid? You use enzymes, \none of which requires vitamin C(this is why Pauling has tried to pull the \ntitle of anti-infection vitamin away from vitamin A). Vitamin C does play \na role in infection(interferon production for example) but it's biggest role \nis the conversion of retinol to retinoic acid. If you increase your intake \nof vitamin C, you will increase your formation of retinoic acid. But \nretinoic acid can not be converted back to retinol(as retinal can) and once \nit's formed, it's used and then lost to the body. This is why the 1985 NRC \ngroup wanted to increase both vitamin C and vitamin A RDA's.\n\nMost people taking large amounts of vitamin C really think that they are \nhelping themselves. If they don't have much vitamin A in their liver and \nthey are not also increasing their intake of vitamin A, they actually do \nthemselves more harm than good.\n\nRetinoic acid functions in white blood cells to promote antibody formation.\nIn the mucus membrane, it is the main factor in promoting good mucus \nproduction and a good epithelial cell barrier to prevent infectious agents from \nentering the blood system. The mucus membrane is referred to as the \"first \nline\" defense against infection. For cancer, retinoic acid has been shown \nto act as a cell brake(it counteracts the effect of cell promoters which \nstimulate cells to divide). Cancer has two distinct steps, DNA alteration \nand cell promotion. For cells that normally divide all the time, promoters \nare not that important. But for lung and breast tissue which does not \nnormally divide, promoters are real important in the malignant process.\nThis is the major reason why the NCI has so many different clinical trials \nin progress using retinol and/or beta-carotene.\n\nChronic infection(irritation) of the mucus membranes is a signal that \nvitamin A may not be adequate. I tell my students that any patient who \nwalks into their office with a complaint of chronic infection has to be \nworked up for vitamin A(along with the other factors that medicine already \nhas on it's list of causes for chronic infection). I drive this home in my \ncourse at the Osteopathic College in Tulsa, when I teach at the allopathic \nmedical school in Tulsa(OU's branch campus) and when I give CME lectures.\n\nDark adaptation is the best clinical test for vitamin A status since night \nvision is impacted when liver reverves drop to 50,000IU of retinol. The \nserum level of retinol can also be used, but it does not drop until liver \nreserves drop below 10,000 to 20,000IU. Asking a patient if they have \ntrouble seeing at night is a good initial screen(if cataracts are ruled \nout). In one study done on U.S. Spanish-Americans where serum retinol levels \nwere measured, 25% of the sample population had a serum retinol level below \n20ug/dl.\n\nAs more studies are done on serum retinol levels in population groups of \nthe U.S. that have had a history of high infection rates, we will probably \nsee a much stonger correlation between infection incidence rates and low \nserum retinol levels.\n\nWhat do Weinsier and Morgan have to say about vitamin A? Here are excerpts\nfrom their book:\n\nVitamin A functions in vision in the forrm of retinol, it is necessay for \ngrowth and differentation of epithelial tissue, and is required for \nreproduction, embryonic development, and bone growth. Protein-calorie \nmalnutrition and zinc deficiency may impair the absorption, transport, and \nmetabolism of vitamin A. Retinaldehyde is converted to retinoic acid, \nwhich has biological activity in growth and in cell diferentiation but not \nin reproduction or vision. The most common procedure to evaluate vitamin A \nstatus is to measure the retinol level in plasma or serum. The normal \nrange for vitamin A content for a child is 20 to 90ug/dl. Lower values are \nindicators of deficiency or depleted body stores. Serum levels greater \nthan 100ug/dl are indicative of toxic levels of vitamin A. Dark adaptation \ntests and electroretinogram measurements are also useful but difficult to \nperform on young children. Rapidly proliferating tissues are sensitive to \nvitamin A deficiency and may revert to an undifferentiated state. The \nbronchorespiratory tract, skin, genitourinary system, gastrointestinal \ntract and sweat glands are adversely affected. A daily intake of more than \n7.5mg(about 37,000IU) of retinol is not advised and chronic use of amounts \nover 20mg(100,000IU) can result in a dry and itching skin, desquamation, \nerythematous dermatitis, hair loss, joint pain, chapped lips, hyperostois\n(bony depositis), headaches, anorexia, edema and fatigue. \n\nThey recommend 30mg of retinol via IM injection in children for vitamin A \ndeficiency but do not discuss treatment for adults. Their toxic serum retinol \nlevel is very conservative. I recommend that my students try 25,000IU in \nadults that are having problems with chronic infection. They have to rule \nout a zinc deficit first by getting an RBC zinc run(or if their clinical \nlab can't run it, I tell them to do what Weinsier and Morgan suggest, give \nthem the zinc along with the vitamin A. At 25,000IU per day, toxicity \nshould not be a problem and you will not have to worry about pulling the \npatient into the office on a regular basis to run a serum retinol.\n\nBoth Elaine and Jon found doctors who used a much higher dose of vitamin A.\nRecall that the PMS papers were using 100,000IU to 200,000IU of vitamin A.\nI don't suggest that my students use these high doses. If you wanted to \nfill the liver up fast(as part of a clinical trial) and were monitoring the \nserum retinol level, then you would be okay. But my knowledge of the \nvitamin A literature suggests to me that 25,000IU for patients with a \ndemonstrated vitamin A deficit(dark adapatation test or serum retinol) will \nprovide a good and steady improvement(as long as zinc and vitamin C status \nare good) without having to worry about toxicity. If they want to get more \nagressive, fine if they follow my advise to check the serum retinol. But \nvitamin A(retinol) should never be given in high dose to women who could \nbecome pregnant since vitamin A shows teratogenicity towards the human \nfetus. The dose needed to show this effect on the developing fetus is \n18,000IU of retinol per day. Beta-carotene will never have this effect on \nthe human fetus.\n\nCould just taking Beta-carotene instead of retinol supplements help? Yes \nbut the effect will take a long time to develop. My advise is to use \nretinol to fill the liver up and then switch to beta-carotene to keep it \nfull. Vitamin A is probably one nutrient that is better off left to \nprescription by doctors. But when we have the M.D.'s in this newsgroup \njumping all over me and other doctors that propose the use of vitamin A \nsupplements for treating patients with chronic sinus and GI distress, I \nthink that the most prudent option is to keep vitamin A in the OTC market \nbut require manufactors to provide package inserts to educate the general \npublic about the dangers of vitamin A supplementation.", "Is there some difference between the purposes behind\namniocentesis and chorionic villi sampling? They sound\nsimilar to me, but are intended to detect different\nthings?", "Ron Roth recommends: \"Once you have your hypoglycemia CONFIRMED through the \n proper channels, you might consider ther following:...\"\n [diet omitted]\n\n1) Ron...what do YOU consider to be \"proper channels\"...this sounds suspiciously\nlike a blood chemistry...glucose tolerance and the like...suddenly chemistry \nexists? You know perfectly well that this person can be saved needless trouble \nand expense with simple muscle testing and hair analysis to diagnose...no\n\"CONFIRM\" any aberrant physiology...but then again...maybe that's what you meantby \"proper channels.\"\n\n2) Were you able to understand Dick King's post that \"90% of diseases is not thesame thing as 90% of patients\" which was a reply to your inability to critically\nevaluate the statistic you cited from the New England Journal of Medicine. Couldyou figure out what is implied by the remark \"Of course MDs are ethically bound to not knowingly dispense placebos...\"?\n\n3) Ron...have you ever thought about why you never post in misc.health.alterna-\ntive...and insist instead upon insinuating your untrained, non-medical, often \ndelusional notions of health and disease into this forum? I suspect from your\napparent anger toward MDs and heteropathic medicine that there may be an\nunderlying 'father problem'...of course I can CONFIRM this by surrogate muscle\ntesting one of my patients while they ponder my theory to see if one of their \npreviously weak 'indicator' muscles strengthens...or do you have reservations\nabout my unique methods of diagnosis? Oh..I forgot what you said in an earlier\npost..\"neither am I concerned of whether or not my study designs meet your or\nanyone else's criteria of acceptance.\" \n\nJohn Badanes, DC, CA\nromdas@uclink.berkeley.edu\n\n\n\n\n\n\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nDyer, you're rude. Medicine is not a totallly scientific endevour. It's\noften practiced in a disorganized manner. Most early treatment of\nnon-life threatening illness is done on a guess, hazarded after anecdotal\nevidence given by the patient. It's an educated guess, by a trained person,\nbut it's still no more than a guess.\nIt's cheaper and simpler to medicate first and only deal further with those\npeople who don't respond.\n\nThere are diseases that haven't been described yet and the root cause of many\ndiseases now described aren't known. (Read a book on gastroenterology\nsometime if you want to see a lot of them.) After scientific methods have\nrun out then it's the patient's freedom of choice to try any experimental\nmethod they choose. And it's well recognized by many doctors that medicine\ndoesn't have all the answers.\n\nThis person said that they had relief by taking the medicine. Maybe it's a\nmiracle cure, maybe it's valid. How do you know? \n\nYou might argue with the reasoning, the conclusions. But your disparaging\nattack is unwarranted. Why don't you present an convincing argument for you\nr beliefs, instead of wasting our time in an ad hominem attack.", "My name is Noah Dacumos and I am a student at San Leandro High. I am\ndoing a project for my physics class and I would like some info on the\ndiscovery of penicillin, its discoverer(Sir Alexander Fleming), and how it\nhelps people with many incurable bacterias. Also how it effects those who\nare allergic to it. Any info will be greatly appreciated.", "\nYou've asked a toughie of a question. There are many different drugs which\nare used for chemotherapy.\n\nThe overall purpose of chemotherapy (don't worry about the spelling. Some of\nthese crazy medical words are impossible to spell! :-) is to either destroy\ncancer cells or to keep them from growing. Different drugs have different\neffects on cancer cells, and therefore, it is not uncommon to use more than\none drug at a time.\n\nSome chemotherapeutic drugs are effective anytime during the growth cycle\nof a cell. Others work only at specific times during the cell cycle.\n\nThe first phase of the cell cycle is G1; it is when the protein synthesis\nand RNA systhesis occurs. In the second phase, S, synthesis of DNA occurs.\nThe third phase is G2; The DNA splits and RNA and protein are synthesized \naagain. In the fourth phase, M (or Mitosis), the cell may divide.\n\nThere are drugs which are effective in each phase. Some stop DNA synthesis.\nOthers stop the cell from dividing. Others wreck protein synthesis.\nAt any rate, the end result that is being sought is for the cancer cells\nto stop growing.\n\nIf what you are seeking is \"practical\" advice, I apologize for rambling\non the techno stuff. Some side effects are pretty common. Chemo. drugs\nare rather nasty. It can cause a person to lose their appetite and to \nexperience nausea and vomiting. Things to help this include eating small\nfrequent meals. It is also suggested that if nausea/vomiting (hereafter\nknown as n/v) occurs that the person notify the doctor; there are medicines\ntthat help nausea. Diarrhea can be an effect. Antidiarrheal medications \ncan be given, and good skincare and fluid intake are important.\n\nProbably the one of biggest concsern is hair loss. This does not always\nhappen. It depends on what drugs are being given, and on the person \nthemself. Different people taking the same drug can and do have different\nside effects. I have seen some literature which states that wearing a snug\nheadband and/or wearing an ice cap can help reduce hair loss, presumably\nby reducing blood flow to the scalp. If anyone has seen research on this\ntoo, I would love to see it, and possibly some bib data.\n\nI highly recommend making contact with the American Cancer Society.\nThey have a vast selection of literature and information. In addition,\nif your friend has had a mastectomy, I highly recommend \"Reach for Recovery\".\nIt is a support group comprised entirely of women who have lost a breast \nbecause of cancer. They can offer some excellent support and suggestions.\n\nIf you have further questions, please send me E-mail. I hav some good\naccess to information, and I enjoy trying to help other people.", "I am 35 and am recovering from a case of Chicken Pox which I contracted\nfrom my 5 year old daughter. I have quite a few of these little puppies\nall over my bod. At what point am I no longer infectious? My physician's\noffice says when they are all scabbed over. Is this true?\n\nIs there any medications which can promote healing of the pox? Speed up\nhealing? Please e-mail replies, and thanks in advance.\n", "\nPerhaps I should quit eating mushrooms, soya beans, and brie cheese\nwhich all have MSG in them. It occurs naturally.\n\nI'm not going to quit eating something that I like just because\nit *might* cause me trouble later or causes problems in *some*\npeople. I would much rather avoid stress by not worrying over\nwhat goes in my mouth and not spending every day reading conflicting\nreports of what is good/bad for you.\n\nI may eat some things in quantities that may not be good for me.\nFine. I've made my decision and I don't think it's appropriate\nfor anyone to try to 'convert' me. \"It's for your own good\" are\nthe most obnoxious and harmful words, IMO, in the English (or\nany other) language.\n\n\nI think it is. I get tired of people saying 'don't eat X because\nit's BAD!' Well, X may not be bad for everyone. And even if\nit is, so what? Give people all the information but don't ram\nyour decisions down their throats.", "Isn't this what HIV is about - the \"normal immune response\" to an exposure?\n\n\nI had electrical pulse nerve testing done a while back. The needles were taken\nfrom a dirty drawer in an instrument cart and were most certainly NOT\nsterile or even clean for that matter. More than likely they were fresh\nfrom the previous patient. I WAS concerned, but I kept my mouth shut. I\nprobably should have raised hell!", "\nI've had neither a baby nor a kidney stone, but according to my aunt, \nwho has had plenty of both, a kidney stone is worse. \n", "\nProbably would not be fatal in an adult at that dose, but could kill\na child. Patient would be very somnolent, with dilated pupils, low\nblood pressure. Possibly cardiac arrhythmias. \n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "My ENT doctor recommended surgery to fix my sinuses. I have a very deviated\nnasal septum (probably the result at least partially from several fractures).\nOne side has approximately 10-15% of normal flow. Of course I have known this\nfor years but recently discovered that I suffer from chronic sinus infection,\ndiscovered during an MRI after a severe migraine. A CT scan subsequently \nconfirmed the problems in the sinuses.\n\nHe wants to do endoscopic sinus surgery on the ethmoid, maxillary, frontal,\nand sphenoid, along with nasal septoplasty.\n\nHe explained the procedure, and the risks. What I would like to know is if\nthere is anyone out there who can tell me \"I had this surgery, and it helped\nme\"?\n\n(I've already heard from a couple who said they had it and it didn't\nreally help them).\n\nI am a moderately severe asthmatic. ENT doc says large percentage see some\nrelief of their asthma after sinus surgery. Also he said it is not unheard of\nthat migraines go away after chronis sinusitis is relieved.\n\nI am 42.\n\nAny relevant information is appreciated.\n\nRegards,", "Summary of thread:\nA person has Crohns, raw vegetables cause problems (unspecified)\nSteve Holland replies: patient may have mild obstruction. Avoid things\nthat would plug her up. Crohn's has no dietary restriction in general.\n\n\nThe feeling obout this has changed in the GI community. The current\nfeeling\nis that inflammation is not induced by food. There is even evidence that\npatients deprived of food have mucosal atrophy due to lack of stimulation\nof\nintestinal growth factors. There is now interest in providing small\namounts\nof nasogastric feeding to patients on IV nutrition. But I digress. \nSymptoms can be drastically enhanced by food, but not inflammation.\n\n\nThe low residue diet is appropriate for you if you still have obstructions.\nAgain, it is not felt that food causes inflammation. These foods are\navoided because they may get stuck. I'd go ahead and have the\nfudge, though ;-) .\n\nSpencer makes an especially good point in having an observant and\ninformed patient. Would that many patients be able to tell what\ncauses them problems. The digestive processing idea is changing, but\nif a food causes problems, avoid them. Be sure that the foods are \ntested a second time to be sure the food is a real cause. Crohn's\ncommonly causes intermittent symptoms and some patients end up with\nseverly restricted diets that take months to renormalize.\n\nThere was a good article in the CCFA newsletter recently that discussed\nthe issue of dietary restriction of fiber. It would be worth reading\nto anyone with an interest in Crohn's.\n\nAnd, as I always say when dealing with Crohn's, as does Spencer, Good Luck!", "I am currently in the throes of a hay fever attack. SO who certainly\nnever reads Usenet, let alone Sci.med, said quite spontaneously \"\nThere are a lot of mushrooms and toadstools out on the lawn at the\nmoment. Sure that's not your problem?\"\n\nWell, who knows? Or maybe it's the sourdough bread I bake?\n\nAfter reading learned, semi-learned, possibly ignorant and downright\nludicrous stuff in this thread, I am about ready to believe anything :-)\n\nIf the hayfever gets any worse, maybe I will cook those toadstools...\n", "According to a previous poster, one should seek a doctor's\nassistance for injections. But what about Sumatriptin [sp?]?\nDoesn't one have to inject oneself immediately upon the onset\nof a migraine?\n\n", "------------- cut here -----------------\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 13\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n\n\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n Food & Drug Administration News\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n\n FDA Approves Depo Provera, injectable contraceptive\n P92-31 Food and Drug Administration\n FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Susan Cruzan - (301) 443-3285\n\n\nThe Food and Drug Administration today announced the approval of Depo Provera, \nan injectable contraceptive drug. \n\nThe drug, which contains a synthetic hormone similar to the natural hormone \nprogesterone, protects women from pregnancy for three months per injection. \nThe hormone is injected into the muscle of the arm or buttock where it is \nreleased into the bloodstream to prevent pregnancy. It is more than 99 percent \neffective.\n\n\"This drug presents another long-term, effective option for women to prevent \npregnancy,\" said FDA Commissioner David A. Kessler, M.D. \"As an injectable, \ngiven once every three months, Depo Provera eliminates problems related to \nmissing a daily dose.\"\n\nDepo Provera is available in 150 mg. single dose vials from doctors and \nclinics and must be given on a regular basis to maintain contraceptive \nprotection. If a patient decides to become pregnant, she discontinues the \ninjections.\n\nAs with any such products, FDA advises patients to discuss the benefits and \nrisks of Depo Provera with their doctor or other health care professional \nbefore making a decision to use it.\n\nDepo Provera's effectiveness as a contraceptive was established in extensive \nstudies by the manufacturer, the World Health Organization and health agencies \nin other countries. U.S. clinical trials, begun in 1963, also found Depo \nProvera effective as an injectable contraceptive.\n\nThe most common side effects are menstrual irregularities and weight gain. In \naddition, some patients may experience headache, nervousness, abdominal pain, \ndizziness, weakness or fatigue. The drug should not be used in women who have \nacute liver disease, unexplained vaginal bleeding, breast cancer or blood \nclots in the legs, lungs or eyes.\n\nThe labeling advises doctors to rule out pregnancy before prescribing the \ndrug, due to concerns about low birth weight in babies exposed to the drug. \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 14\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\nRecent data have also demonstrated that long-term use may contribute to \nosteoporosis. The manufacturer will conduct additional research to study this \npotential effect.\n\nDepo Provera was Developed in the 1960s and has been approved for \ncontraception in many other countries. The UpJohn Company of Kalamazoo, Mich., \nwhich will market the drug under the name, Depo Provera Contraceptive \nInjection, first submitted it for approval in the United States in the 1970s. \nAt that time, animal studies raised questions about its potential to cause \nbreast cancer. Worldwide studies have since found the overall risk of cancer, \nincluding breast cancer in humans, to be minimal if any.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 15\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n New Rules Speed Approval of Drugs for Life-Threatening Illnesses\n P92-37 Food and Drug Administration\n Monica Revelle - (301) 443-4177\n\nThe Food and Drug Administration today announced that it will soon publish new \nrules to shed the approval of drugs for patients with serious or life-\nthreatening illnesses, such as AIDS, cancer and Alzheimer's disease. \n\n\"These final rules will help patients who are suffering the most serious \nillnesses to get access to new drugs months or even years earlier than would \notherwise be possible,\" said HHS Secretary Louis W. Sullivan, M.D. \"The effort \nto accelerate FDA review for these drugs has been a long-term commitment and \nindeed a hallmark of this administration.\" \n\nThese rules establish procedures for the Food and Drug Administration to \napprove a drug based on \"surrogate endpoints\" or markers. They apply when the \ndrug provides a meaningful benefit over currently available therapies. Such \nendpoints would include laboratory tests or physical signs that do not in \nthemselves constitute a clinical effect but that are judged by qualified \nscientists to be likely to correspond to real benefits to the patient. \n\nUse of surrogate endpoints for measurement of drug efficacy permits approval \nearlier than if traditional endpoints -- such as relief of disease symptoms or \nprevention of disability and death from the disease -- are used. \n\nThe new rules provide for therapies to be approved as soon as safety and \neffectiveness, based on surrogate endpoints, can be reasonably established. \nThe drug's sponsor will be required to agree to continue or conduct \npostmarketing human studies to confirm that the drug's effect on the surrogate \nendpoint is an indicator of its clinical effectiveness. \n\nOne new drug -- zalcitabine (also called ddC) -- was approved June 19, using a \nmodel of this process, for treating the human immunodeficiency virus, HIV, the \ncause of AIDS. \n\nAccelerated approval can also be used, if necessary, when FDA determines that \na drug, judged to be effective for the treatment of a disease, can be used \nsafely only under a restricted distribution plan. \n\n\"The new rules will help streamline the drug development and review process \nwithout sacrificing goad science and rigorous FDA oversight,\" said FDA \ncommissioner David A. Kessler, M.D. \"While drug approval will be accomplished \nfaster, these drugs and biological products must still meet safety and \neffectiveness standards required by law.\" \n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 16\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\nThe new procedures also allow for a streamlined withdrawal process if the \npostmarketing studies do not verify the drug's clinical benefit, if there is \nnew evidence that the drug product is not shown to be safe and effective, or \nif other specified circumstances arise that necessitate expeditious withdrawal \nof the drug or biologic.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 17\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n\n\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n Articles\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n\n Research Shows Promise for Preventing or Slowing\n Blindness due to Retinal Disease\n\n National Retinitis Pigmentosa Foundation\n\n Neutrophilic Factors Rescue Photoreceptor Cells in Animal Tests\n\n Baltimore, MD - Researchers at the University of California San Francisco \nand Regeneron Pharmaceuticals, Inc. [NASDAQ: REGN] have discovered that \ncertain naturally occurring substances known as neurotrophic factors can \nprevent the degeneration of light-sensing cells in the retina of the eye. The \ndegeneration of these cells, known as photoreceptors, is a major cause of \nvisual impairment \n This research, published to in the December issue of the Proceedings of \nthe National Academy of Science (PNAS), holds promise for people who may lose \ntheir sight due to progressive retinal degeneration -- currently, no drug \ntreatment for retinal degeneration exists. It is estimated that 2.5 million \nAmericans have severe vision loss due to age-related macular degeneration and \n100,000 Americans are affected by retinitis pigmentosus, a hereditary disease \nthat causes blindness. In addition, each year more than 15,000 people undergo \nsurgical procedures to repair retinal detachments and other retinal traumas. \n The research was funded in part by the RP (Retinitis Pigmentosa) \nFoundation Fighting Blindness, Regeneron Pharmaceuticals and the National Eye \nInstitute. It was conducted by Drs. Matthew M. LaVail, Kazuhiko Unoki, Douglas \nYasurnura, Michael T. Matthes and Roy H. Steinberg at UCSF, arld Dr. C;eorge \nYancoooulos, Regeneron's Vice President for Discovery. Regeneron holds an \nexclusive license for this research from UCSF.\n In the research described in the PNAS , a light-damage model was used to \nassess the survival-promoting activity of a number of naturally occurring \nsubstances. Experimental rats were exposed to constant light for one week. \nEyes that had not been treated with an effective factor lost most of their \nphotoreceptor cells -- the rods and cones of the retina -- after light \nexposure. Brain Derived Neurotrophic Factor (BDNF) and Ciliary Neurotrophic \nFactor (CNTF) were particularly effective in this model without causing \nunwanted side effects; other factors such as Nerve Growth Factor (NGF) and \nInsulin-like Growth Factor (IGF-1) were not effective in these experiments. \n Discussing the research, Dr. Jesse M. Cedarbaum, Regeneron's Director of \nClinical Research, said, \"BDNF's ability to rescue neurons in the retina that \nhave been damaged by light exposure may hold promise for the treatment of age-\nrelated macular degeneration, one of the leading causes of vision impairment, \nand for retinal detachment. Following detachment, permanent vision loss may \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 18\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\nresult frorn the death of detached retinal cells. It is possible that BDNF \ncould play a role in rescuing those cells once the retina has been reattached \nsurgically.\" \n \"Retinitis pigmentosa is a slowly progressing disease that causes the \nretina to degenerate over a period of years or even decades. Vision decreases \nto a small tunnel of sight and can result in total blindness. It is our hope \nthat research on growth factors will provide a means to slow the progression \nand preserve useful vision throughout life,\" stated Jeanette S. Felix, Ph.D., \nDirector of Science for the RP Foundation Fighting Blindness. \n In addition to the work described , Regeneron is developing BDNF in \nconjunction with Aingen Inc. [NASDAQ:AMGN] as a possible treatment for \nperipheral neuropathies associated with diabetes and cancer chemotherapy, \nmotor neuron diseases, Parkinson's disease, and Alzheimer's disease. By \nitself, Regeneron is testing CNTF in patients with arnyotrophic lateral \nsclerosis (commonly known as Lou Gehrig's disease). \n Regeneron Pharlnaceuticals, Inc., based in Tarrytown, New York, is a \nleader in the discovery and development of biotechnology-based compounds for \nthe treatment of neurodegenerative diseases, peripheral neuropathies and nerve \ninjuries, which affect more than seven million Americans. Drs. LaVail and \nSteinberg of UCSF are consultants to Regeneron.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 19\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n Affluent Diet Increases Risk Of Heart Disease\n\n Research Resources Reporter\n written by Mary Weideman\n Nov/Dec 1992\n National Institutes of Health\n\n\n High-fat, high-calorie diets rapidly increase risk factors for coronary \nheart disease in native populations of developing countries that have \ntraditionally consumed diets low in fat. These findings, according to \ninvestigators at the Oregon Health Sciences University in Portland, have \nserious implications for public health in both industrialized and developing \ncountries. \n \"This study demonstrates why we can develop coronary heart disease and \nhave higher blood cholesterol and triglyceride levels. It shows also the \nimportance of diet and particularly the potential of the diet to increase body \nweight, thereby leading to a whole host of other health problems in developing \ncountries and affluent nations as well,\" explains principal investigator Dr. \nWilliam E. Connor, head of the section of clinical nutrition and lipid \nmetabolism at Oregon Health Sciences University. \n Over the past 25 years Dr. Connor and his team have characterized the \nfood and nutrient intakes of the Tara humara Indians in Mexico, while \nsimultaneously documenting various aspects of Tarahumara lipid metabolism. \nThese native Mexicans number approximately 50,000 and reside in the Sierra \nMadre Occidental Mountains in the state of Chihuahua. The Tarahumaras have \ncoupled an agrarian diet to endurance racing. Probably as a result, coronary \nheart disease, which is so prevalent in Western industrialized nations, is \nvirtually non existent in their culture. Loosely translated, the name \nTarahumara means \"fleet of foot,\" reflecting a tribal passion for betting on \n\"kickball\" races, in which participants run distances of 100 miles or more \nwhile kicking a machete-carved wooden ball.\n The typical Tarahumara diet consists primarily of pinto beans, tortillas, \nand pinole, a drink made of ground roasted corn mixed with cold water, \ntogether with squash and gath ered fruits and vegetables. The Tara humaras \nalso eat small amounts of game, fish, and eggs. Their food contains \napproximately 12 percent of total calories as fat of which the majority (69 \npercent) is of vegetable origin. Dietician Martha McMurry, a coinvestigator \nin the study, describes their diet as simple and very rich in nutrients while \nlow in cholesterol and fat.\n The Tarahumaras have average plasma cholesterol levels of 121 mg/ dL, \nlow-density lipoprotein (LDL)-cholesterol levels of 72 mg/dl, and high-density \nlipoprotein (HDL)-cholesterol levels of 32 to 42 mg/dl. All of those values \nare in the good, low-risk range, according to the researchers. Elevated \ncholesterol and LDL-cholesterol levels are considered risk factors for heart \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 20\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\ndisease. HDL-cholesterol is considered beneficial. In previous studies the \nTarahumaras had been found to be at low risk for cardiac disease, although \nable to respond to high-cholesterol diets with elevations in total and LDL-\ncholesterol. \n Clinical Research Center dietitian McMurry and coinvestigator Maria \nTeresa Cerqueira established a metabolic unit in a Jesuit mission school \nbuilding near a community hospital in the small village of Sisoguichi. Food \nwas weighed, cooked, and fed to the study participants under the \ninvestigators' direct supervision, ensuring that subjects ate only food \nstipulated by the research protocol. Fasting blood was drawn twice weekly, \nand plasma samples were frozen and shipped to Dr. Connors laboratory for \ncholesterol, triglyceride, and lipoprotein analyses. Regular measurements \nincluded participant body weight, height, and triceps skin fold thickness. \nThirteen Tarahumaras, five women and eight men, including one adolescent, were \nfed their native diet for 1 week, followed by 5 weeks of an \"affluent\" diet. \n \"In this study we went up to a concentration of dietary fat that was 40 \npercent of total calories. This is the prototype of the holiday diet that \nmany Americans consume a diet high in fat, sugar, and cholesterol, low in \nfiber,\" elaborates Dr. Conners. Such dietary characteristics are reflected in \nthe cholesterol-saturation index, or CSI, recently devised research dietitian \nSonja Conner working with Dr. Connor. \"The CSI is a single number that \nincorporates both the amount of cholesterol and the amount of saturated fat in \nthe diet. CSI indicates the diet's potential to elevate the cholesterol \nlevel, particularly the LDL,\" Dr. Connor explains. The Tarahumaran diet \naverages a very low CSI of 20; Dr. Connor's \"affluent\" diet used in the study \nranks a CSI of 149. \n The experimental design of this study reflects the importance of \nestablishing baseline plasma lipid levels, typical of the native diet, before \nexposing subjects to the experimental diet. The standard curve relating \ndietary food intake to plasma cholesterol demonstrates a leveling off, or \nplateau, for consumption of large amounts of fat. Changes in dietary fat \nand/or cholesterol in this range have little effect on plasma levels. \"You \nmust have the baseline diet almost free of the variables you are going to put \ninto the experimental diet. The Framingham study, for example, did not \ndiscriminate on the basis of diet between individuals who got heart disease \nbecause the diet was already high in fat. All subjects were already eating on \na plateau,\" Dr. Connor says. \n After 5 weeks of consuming the \"affluent\" diet, the subjects' mean plasma \ncholesterol levels had in creased by 31 percent, primarily in the LDL \nfraction, which rose 39 percent. HDL-cholesterol increased by 31 per cent, \nand LDL to HDL ratios changed therefore very little. Plasma triglyceride \nlevels increased by 18 percent, and subjects averaged an 8-pound gain in \nweight. According to Dr. Connor, lipid changes occurred surprisingly soon, \nyielding nearly the same results after 7 days of affluent diet as after 35 \ndays. \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 21\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n The increase in HDL carries broad dietary implications for industrialized \nnations. \"We think HDL-cholesterol increased because we increased the amount \nof dietary fat over the fat content used in the previous Tarahumara metabolic \nstudy. In that study we saw no change in HDL levels after raising the dietary \ncholesterol but keeping the fat relatively consistent with native consumption. \nIn the present study we increased fat intake to 40 percent of the total \ncalories. We reached the conclusion in the Tarahumara study that HDL reflects \nthe amount of dietary fat in general and not the amount of dietary \ncholesterol. HDL must increase to help metabolize the fat, and it increased \nquite a bit in this study,\" Dr. Connor explains.\n Low HDL in the Tarahumarans is not typically an important predictor of \ncoronary heart disease because they do not normally consume large amounts of \nfat or cholesterol. HDL remains an important predictor to Americans because \nof their usual high fat intake. \n Dr. Connor recommends a diet for Americans that contains less than 20 \npercent of total calories as fat, less than 100 mg of cholesterol, and a CSI \naround 20, varying in accordance with caloric needs. Such a diet is low in \nmeat and dairy fat, high in fiber. Dr. Connor also comments on recent \nsuggestions that Americans adopt a \"Mediterranean-style\" diet. \"The original \nMediterranean diet, in its pristine state, consisted of a very low intake of \nfat and very few animal and dairy products. We are already eating a lot of \nmeat and dairy products. Simply to continue that pattern while switching to \nolive oil is not going to help the situation.\" \n The World Health Organization (WHO) is focusing much attention on the \nemergence of diseases such as coronary heart disease in nations and societies \nundergoing technological development. Dr. Connor says that coronary heart \ndisease starts with a given society's elite, who typically eat a different \ndiet than the average citizen. \"If the pattern of afluence increases, the \nentire population will have have a higher incidence of coronary heart disease, \nwhich places a termendous health care burden on a society. WHO would like the \ndeveloping countries to prevent coronary heart disease, so they can \nconcentrate on other aspects of their economic development and on public \nhealth measures to improve general well-being, rather than paying for \nunnecessary, expensive medical technology,\" Dr. Connors says.\n \"The overall implication of this study is that humans can readily move \ntheir plasma lipids and lipoprotein values into a high-risk range within a \nvery short time by an affluent, excessive diet. The present rate of coronary \nheart disease in the United States is 30 percent less than it was 20 years \nago, so a lot has been accomplished. We are changing rapidly,\" he concludes.\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 22\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n\n\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n General Announcments\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n\n Publications for Health Professionals Available from NCI (1/93)\n\nUnless otherwise noted, the following materials are provided free of charge by \ncalling the NCI's Publication Ordering Service, 1-800-4-CANCER. Because \nFederal Government publications are not subject to copyright restriction, you \nare free to photocopy NCI material. \n \n \nGENERAL INFORMATION\n \n \n ANTICANCER DRUG INFORMATION SHEETS IN SPANISH/ENGLISH. Two-\n sided fact sheets (in English and Spanish) provide\n information about side effects of common drugs used to treat\n cancer, their proper usage, and precautions for patients.\n The fact sheets were prepared by the United States\n Pharmacopeial Convention, Inc., for distribution by the\n National Cancer Institute. Single sets only may be ordered.\n \n CANCER RATES AND RISKS, 3RD EDITION (85-691). This book is\n a compact guide to statistics, risk factors, and risks for\n major cancer sites. It includes charts and graphs showing\n incidence, mortality, and survival worldwide and in the\n United States. It also contains a section on the costs of\n cancer. 136 pages.\n \n DIET, NUTRITION & CANCER PREVENTION: A GUIDE TO FOOD CHOICES\n (87-2778). This booklet describes what is now known about\n diet, nutrition, and cancer prevention. It provides\n information about foods that contain components like fiber,\n fat, and vitamins that may affect a person's risk of getting\n certain cancers. It suggests ways to use that information\n to select from a broad variety of foods--choosing more of\n some foods and less of others. Includes recipes and sample\n menus. 39 pages.\n \n NATIONAL CANCER INSTITUTE FACT BOOK. This book presents\n general information about the National Cancer Institute\n including budget data, grants and contracts, and historical\n information.\n \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 23\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n NATIONAL CANCER INSTITUTE GRANTS PROCESS (91-1222) (Revised\n 3/90). This booklet describes general NCI grant award\n procedures; includes chapters on eligibility, preparation of\n grant application, peer review, eligible costs, and post-\n award activities. 62 pages.\n \n PHYSICIAN TO PHYSICIAN: PERSPECTIVE ON CLINICAL TRIALS. This\n 15-minute videocassette discusses why and how to enter\n patients on clinical trials. It was produced in\n collaboration with the American College of Surgeons\n Commission on Cancer.\n \n \n STUDENTS WITH CANCER: A RESOURCE FOR THE EDUCATOR (91-2086).\n (Revised 4/87) This booklet is designed for teachers who\n have students with cancer in their classrooms or schools. It\n includes an explanation of cancer, its treatment and\n effects, and guidelines for the young person's re-entry to\n school and for dealing with terminally ill students.\n Bibliographies are included for both educators and young\n people. 22 pages.\n \n UNDERSTANDING THE IMMUNE SYSTEM (92-529). This booklet\n describes the complex network of specialized cells and\n organs that make up the human immune system. It explains how\n the system works to fight off disease caused by invading\n agents such as bacteria and viruses, and how it sometimes\n malfunctions, resulting in a variety of diseases from\n allergies, to arthritis, to cancer. It was developed by the\n National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and\n printed by the National Cancer Institute. This booklet\n presents college level instruction in immunology. It is\n appropriate for nursing or pharmacology students and for\n persons receiving college training in other areas within the\n health professions. 36 pages.\n \n \nMATERIALS TO HELP STOP TOBACCO USE\n \n CHEW OR SNUFF EDUCATOR PACKAGE (91-2976). Each package\n contains:\n \n Ten copies of CHEW OR SNUFF IS REAL BAD STUFF, a\n brochure designed for seventh and eighth graders that\n describes the health and social effects of using\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 24\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n smokeless tobacco products. When fully opened, the\n brochure can be used as a poster.\n \n One copy of CHEW OR SNUFF IS REAL BAD STUFF: A GUIDE\n TO MAKE YOUNG PEOPLE AWARE OF THE DANGERS OF USING\n SMOKELESS TOBACCO. This booklet is a lesson plan for\n teachers. It contains facts about smokeless tobacco,\n suggested classroom activities, and selected\n educational resources.\n \n HOW TO HELP YOUR PATIENTS STOP SMOKING: A NATIONAL CANCER\n INSTITUTE MANUAL FOR PHYSICIANS (92-3064). This is a step-\n by-step handbook for instituting smoking cessation\n techniques in medical practices. The manual, with resource\n lists and tear-out materials, is based on the results of NCI\n clinical trials. 75 pages.\n \n HOW TO HELP YOUR PATIENTS STOP USING TOBACCO: A NATIONAL\n CANCER INSTITUTE MANUAL FOR THE ORAL HEALTH TEAM (91-3191).\n This is a handbook for dentists, dental hygienists, and\n dental assistants. It complements the physicians' manual\n and includes additional information on smoking prevention\n and on smokeless tobacco use. 58 pages.\n \n PHARMACISTS HELPING SMOKERS QUIT KIT. A packet of materials\n to help pharmacists encourage their smoking patients to\n quit. Contains a pharmacist's guide and self-help materials\n for 25 patients.\n \n SCHOOL PROGRAMS TO PREVENT SMOKING: THE NATIONAL CANCER\n INSTITUTE GUIDE TO STRATEGIES THAT SUCCEED (90-500). This\n guide outlines eight essential elements of a successful\n school-based smoking prevention program based on NCI\n research. It includes a list of available curriculum\n resources and selected references. 24 pages.\n \n \n SELF-GUIDED STRATEGIES FOR SMOKING CESSATION: A PROGRAM\n PLANNER'S GUIDE (91-3104). This booklet outlines key\n characteristics of successful self-help materials and\n programs based on NCI collaborative research. It lists\n additional resources and references. 36 pages.\n \n \n SMOKING POLICY: QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS. These ten fact sheets\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 25\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n provide basic information about the establishment of\n worksite smoking policies. Topics range from the health\n effects of environmental tobacco smoke to legal issues\n concerning policy implementation.\n \n STRATEGIES TO CONTROL TOBACCO USE IN THE UNITED STATES: A\n BLUEPRINT FOR PUBLIC HEALTH ACTION IN THE 1990s (92-3316:\n Smoking and Control Monograph No. 1). This volume provides\n a summary of what has been learned from 40 years of a public\n health effort against smoking, from the early trial-and-\n error health information campaigns of the 1960s to the NCI's\n science-based project, American Stop Smoking Intervention\n Study for Cancer Prevention, which began in 1991. It offers\n reasons why comprehensive smoking control strategies are now\n needed to address the smoker's total environment and to\n reduce smoking prevalence significantly over the next\n decade.\n \n \nMATERIALS FOR OUTREACH PROGRAMS\n \n CANCER PREVENTION AND EARLY DETECTION: COMMUNITY OUTREACH\n PROGRAMS FOR HEALTH PROFESSIONALS\n \n Three kits are available for community program planners\n and health professionals to set up local cancer\n prevention and early detection education projects:\n \n DO THE RIGHT THING. . . GET A NEW ATTITUDE ABOUT\n CANCER COMMUNITY OUTREACH PROGRAM. This community\n outreach kit targets Black American audiences. It\n contains materials to help health professionals\n conduct community education programs for black\n audiences. The kit emphasizes the early detection of\n breast cancer by mammography and of cervical cancer by\n the Pap test. It also discusses smoking and\n nutrition. The kit includes helpful program guidance,\n facts, news articles, visuals, and brochures.\n \n HAGALO HOY COMMUNITY OUTREACH PROGRAM. This community\n outreach kit targets Hispanic audiences. It contains\n bilingual and Spanish language materials to help\n health professionals conduct community education\n programs. The materials educate Hispanic audiences\n about early detection of breast cancer by mammography\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 26\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n and of cervical cancer by Pap tests. The kit also\n discusses smoking and related issues. The kit\n includes helpful guidance, facts, news articles,\n visuals and brochures.\n \n ONCE A YEAR..FOR A LIFETIME COMMUNITY OUTREACH\n MAMMOGRAPHY PROGRAM. This community outreach kit\n targets all women age 40 or over. It supplies\n community program planners and health professionals\n with planning guidance, facts about mammography, news\n articles, visuals and brochures.\n \n \n MAKING HEALTH COMMUNICATION PROGRAMS WORK: A PLANNER'S GUIDE\n (92-1493). This handbook presents key principles and steps\n in developing and evaluating health communications programs\n for the public, patients, and health professionals. It\n expands upon and replaces \"Pretesting in Health\n Communications\" and \"Making PSAs Work.\" 131 pages.\n \n SUPPORT MATERIAL FOR COMMUNITY OUTREACH PROGRAMS\n \n The video and slide presentations listed below support the\n mammography outreach programs.\n \n ONCE A YEAR...FOR A LIFETIME VIDEOTAPE. This 5-minute\n VHS videotape uses a dramatic format to highlight the\n important facts about the early detection of breast\n cancer by mammography.\n \n UNA VEZ AL ANO...PARA TODA UNA VIDA VIDEOTAPE. This 27-\n minute Spanish videotape informs Spanish-speaking women\n of the need for medical screening, particularly\n mammography. It explains commonly misunderstood facts\n about breast cancer and early detection. The program, in\n a dramatic format, features Edward James Olmos and\n Cristina Saralegui.\n \n ONCE A YEAR...FOR A LIFETIME SPEAKER'S KIT (SLIDE SHOW).\n This kit includes 66 full-color slides and a number-\n coded, ready-to-read script suitable for a mammography\n presentation to a large group. It addresses the\n misconceptions prevalent about mammography and urges\n women age 40 and older to get regular mammograms so that\n breast cancer can be detected as early as possible. Kit\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 27\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n includes a guide, poster, media announcement, news\n feature, flyer, and pamphlets on mammography. This kit\n is available directly by writing to: Modern, 5000 Park\n Street North, St. Petersburg, FL 33709-9989.\n--------- end of part 2 ------------\n", "\nCrullerian.\n\n\nCrullerian photography isn't educational, except in a purely satiric\nsense.\n\n\nCrullerian photography involves putting donuts between grease-covered\nhot metal plates while illuminating them with a Krypton Stroboscope.\nThrough a unique iteration involving the 4th-dimensional projection of\na torus through the semi-stochastic interactions of hot monomolecular\nlipid layers covering the metal plates (the best metal is iron since\nit repels Vampires and Succubi) the donuts start developing flutes,\nand within moments actually become poly-crenellated hot greasy\nbreadtubes. Some people believe that food is the way to a man's heart,\nbut most psychics agree that there is nothing like hot Crullers for\nbreakfast; the chemical composition of crullers is a mystery, some\nthought evidence of Charles Fort's channeling in Stevie Wonder's\nproduction of \"The Secret Life of Plants\" when played backwards in the\ntheatre of unnaturally fertile Findhorn Farms has deduced that they\nare complex carbohydrates ordinarily only found by spectoscopy in the\nMagellenic Clouds. I called Devi on my Orgone Box and asked her if\nthis was really the case, and she TM levitated me a letter across the\nAtlantic to tell me it was indeed not just another case of\nmisunderstanding Tesla, though the Miskatonic University hasn't\nconfirmed anything at all. At least the Crullers taste good; I got the\nrecipe from Kaspar Hauser.\n\n\n\n\n", "I need information on the medical (including emotional :-) pros and\ncons of circumcision (at birth). I am especially interested in\nreferences to studies that indicate disadvantages or refute studies\nthat indicate advantages. A friend who is a medical student is\nwriting a survey paper, and apparently the studies she has run into\nare all for circumcision, the main argument being a lower risk of\npenile cancer.\n\nPlease email responses as I am not a frequent reader of either group.\nI will summarize to the net.\n\n******************************************************************\n* Gunnar Blix * Good advice is one of those insults that *\n* blix@cs.uiuc.edu * ought to be forgiven. -Unknown *\n******************************************************************", "Hi. Does anyone know the possible causes of nasoparynx carcenoma\nand what are the chances of it being hereditary?\n\nAlso, in the advacned cases, what is the general procedure to \nreduce the pain the area as it prevents the patient from eating\ndue to the excessive pain of swallowing and even talking?\n\nThanks.", "SP> From: paulson@tab00.larc.nasa.gov (Sharon Paulson)\nSP> to describe here. I have a fourteen year old daugter who experienced\nSP> a seizure on November 3, 1992 at 6:45AM after eating Kellog's Frosted\nSP> Flakes.\n\nSP> Well, we were going along fine and the other morning, April 5, she had\nSP> a bowl of another Kellog's frosted kind of cereal, Fruit Loops (I am\n\nSP> When I mentioned what she ate the first time as a possible reason for\nSP> the seizure the neurologist basically negated that as an idea. Now\nSP> after this second episode, so similar in nature to the first, even\nSP> he is scratching his head.\n\nThere's no data that sugar-coated cereals cause seizures. I haven't\neven seen anything anecdotal on it. Given how common they are eaten\n- do you know any child or adolescent who *doesn't* eat the stuff? -\nI think that if there were a relationship we would know it by now.\nAlso, there's nothing weird in those cereals. As far as the brain\nis concerned (except for a few infantile metabolic disorders such as\ngalactosemia), sugar is sugar, regardless if it is coated on cereal,\nsprinkled onto cereal, or dissolved in soda, coffee or whatever.\n\nThere was some interest a few years ago in aspartame lowering\nseizure thresholds, but I don't believe anything ever came of it.", "\nThere's a pretty good article in the the March 6, 1993 New Scientist titled\n\"Pouring cold water on Lorenzo's oil\". The article states that research\nhas shown that the oil has no discernable effect on the progression of the\ndisease in patients in which demyelination has begun. In patients with\nAMN (a less acute form of the same disease) there is some improvement\nseen in the ability of nerve fibres to conduct impulses. In ALD patients\nwho have not yet begun demyelination, the jury is still out.", "Did your ENT also tell you that this procedure may remove warts from the soles\nof your feet and improve your sex life?\n\n", "-*----\n\nI do not have enough medical expertise to have much of an opinion\none way or another on hidden candida infections. I can\nunderstand the skepticism of those who see this associated with\nvarious general kinds of symptoms, while there is a lack of solid\ndemonstration that this happens and causes such general symptoms.\n(To understand this skepticism, one only needs to know of past\nfailures that shared these characteristics with the notion of\nhidden candida infection. There have been quite a few, and the\nproponents of all thought that the skeptics were overly skeptical.)\n\nOn the other hand, I am happy to read that some people are\nsufficiently interested in this possibility, spurred by\nsuggestive clinical experience, to research it further. The\ndoubters may be surprised. (It has happened before.)\n\nI realize that admitting ignorance in the face of ignorance may\nnot endear me to those who are so sure they know one way or\nanother. (And, indeed, perhaps some of them do know -- I am the\none who is currently ignorant.) But I find this the most honest\nroute, and so I am happy with it.", "\n\n\nShhh--coke drinkers haven't found out about Phosphoric Acid yet.\n\n:-)\n\nDavid", "\nGo for it. I have yet to see anybody justify the\nprohibition on drugs and the ensuing War On Drugs. In the world of\n*.politics here on Usenet, it is YOU that is crazy. ANYBODY--who gives\nthe matter any thought beyond reading headlines---cannot justify this\natrocity, this all out war on individual rights.\n\nJust _TRY_ to justify the War On Drugs, I _DARE_ you!\n\n\nOnce again, in chorus: WHY is this \"stupid\"?\n\n\nThe above paragraph is gibberish--that all I can make of it...\n\n", "I have a 42 yr old male friend, misdiagnosed as having\n osteopporosis for two years, who recently found out that his\n illness is the rare Gaucher's disease. \n\nGaucher's disease symptoms include: brittle bones (he lost 9 \n inches off his hieght); enlarged liver and spleen; internal\n bleeding; and fatigue (all the time). The problem (in Type 1) is\n attributed to a genetic mutation where there is a lack of the\n enzyme glucocerebroside in macrophages so the cells swell up.\n This will eventually cause death.\n\nEnyzme replacement therapy has been successfully developed and\n approved by the FDA in the last few years so that those patients\n administered with this drug (called Ceredase) report a remarkable\n improvement in their condition. Ceredase, which is manufactured\n by biotech biggy company--Genzyme--costs the patient $380,000\n per year. Gaucher's disease has justifyably been called \"the most\n expensive disease in the world\".\n\nNEED INFO:\nI have researched Gaucher's disease at the library but am relying\n on netlanders to provide me with any additional information:\n**news, stories, reports\n**people you know with this disease\n**ideas, articles about Genzyme Corp, how to get a hold of\n enough money to buy some, programs available to help with\n costs.\n**Basically ANY HELP YOU CAN OFFER\n\nThanks so very much!", "\nI don't know where YOU live, but this is not the case nationawide.\nPerhaps your state or municipality has put together the funds to \ndo so, but in my area and most areas where I know people, immunizations\ncost $$$.\n\nSorry to shatter your stereotypes.\n", "Recently I've come upon a body of literature which promotes colon\ncleansing as a vital aid to preventive medicine through nutrition. In\nparticular, Dr. Bernard Jenssen in his book \"Colon Cleansing for\nHealth and Longevity\" -- the title actually escapes me, but it is very\nsimilar to that -- claims that regular self-administered colonics,\nalong with certain orally ingested \"debris-loosening agents\", boosts\nthe immune system to a significant degree.\n\nHe also plugs a unique appliance called the \"Colema Board\", which\nfacilitates the self-administration of colonics. It sells for over\n$100 from a California-based company. He also plugs Vitra-Tox\nproducts as his chemical agents of choice: these include volcanic ash,\nsupposedly for its electrical charge, and psyllium powder, for its\nbulkiness.\n\nIf anyone knows anything about colon cleansing theory, its\nparticulars, or the Colema Board and related products, I'd be very\ninterested to hear about research and personal experience.\n\nThis article is crossposted to alt.magick as the issue touches upon\nfasting and cleansing through a \"ritual\" system of purification.\n\n-- Eli\n", "Carl Lydick:\n\n\nBelieve what you will.\n\nThe mass of anectdotal evidence, combined with the lack of\na properly constructed scientific experiment disproving\nthe hypothesis, makes the MSG reaction hypothesis the\nmost likely explanation for events.", "Betty Harvey writes,\n\n\nThis, simply stated, is a result of the bankrupt ethics in\nthe healthcare and scientific medicine industries.\n\nAmerica is fed up with the massive waste and fraud that is costing\nus 15% of our GNP to support these industries, while delivering \nmarginal health care to the community.\n\nUnfortunately, the \"Clinton Plan\", in whatever form it\ntakes, will probably cost us an even greater sum. Bleah.", "\n\n\nChronic persistent hepatitis is usually diagnosed when someone does a liver\nbiopsy on a patient that has persistently elevated serum transaminases months\nafter a bout of acute viral hepatitis, or when someone is found to have\npersistently elevated transaminases on routine screening tests. The degree of\nelevation (in the serum transaminases) can be trivial, or as much as ten times\nnormal. Other blood chemistries are usually normal. \nAs a rule, patients with CPH have no clinical signs of liver disease. \nChronic active hepatitis can also be asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic, at\nleast initially, and that's why it's important to tell them apart by means of\na biopsy. The patient with CPH only needs to be reassured. The patient with\nCAH needs to be treated.\n\n======================================", "If you can get it, you might want to try a Canadian over-the-counter product\ncalled Secaris, which is a water-soluble gel. Compared to Vaseline or other\ngreasy ointments, Secaris seems more compatible with the moisture that's\nalready there.\n", "\n: > > However, legalizing it and just sticking some drugs in gas stations to\n: > > be bought like cigarettes is just plain silly. Plus, I have never\n: > > heard of a recommended dosage for drugs like crack, ecstasy, chrystal\n: > > meth and LSD. The 60 Minute Report said it worked with \"cocaine\"\n: > > cigarettes, pot and heroin.\n: > \n: > Or, the government could adopt the radical and probably unAmerican idea\n: > that citizens are free to live their lives as they wish, and simply\n: > decriminalize cocaine, marijuana, heroin, LSD, etc. Please explain why\n: > the idea of allowing recreational drugs to be \"bought like cigarettes\"\n: > is \"just plain silly.\" After all, it works just fine for nicotine...\n\n: I'm all in favor of drug legalization, but I do see some problems with\n: it. My hope is that people disposed to doing so would simply overdose\n: quickly, and be done with it, before making a mess of thisgs.\n\nIt's actually quite simple. We sell Drug Use Licenses to anybody over age\n18 who wants one. Costs $100 and you're required to attend a week of\nnight classes on the effects of drugs on the human body. At the end of the\nclass, you sign an informed consent waiver acknowledging that you've been\ntold that drugs are bad for you, but you want them anyway. In doing so,\nyou giver up ANY right to state-paid medical care for whatever might\nhappen to you as a result of doing drugs, or any right to collect welfare\nor unemployment should you lose your job as a result of using drugs. You'd\nalso give up your right to drive a car. \n\nAnybody caught using drugs without a license has a choice; pay a $1000\nfine and accept a backdated drug user's license, or go to prison. \n-- \n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\nKen Mitchell | The powers not delegated to the United States by the\nkmitchel@netcom.com| Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are\nCitrus Heights, CA | reserved to the States respectively, or to the People.", "I am looking for statistics on the prevalence of disorders that are\ntreatable with Botulinum Type A. These disorders include: facial\ndyskinesia, meige syndrome, hemifacial spasm, apraxia of eyelid openeing,\naberrant regeneration of the facial nerve, facial paralysis, strabismus,\nspasmodic torticollis, muscle spasm, occupational dystonia (i.e. writers\ncramp, etc.), spasmodic dysphonia, and temporal mandibular joint disease.\n\nI realize many of the disorders I listed (such as \"muscle spasm\" !!) are\nvaguely defined and may encompass a wide range of particular disorders. My\napologies; the list was provided to me as is. I have some numbers, but not\nreliable. \n\nAny ideas on sources or, even bbetter, any actual figures (with source\nlisted)?\n\nMany thanks,\n\n- Meg", "\nYogurt contains Lactobacillus acidophilus and L. bulgaricus. L. \nacidophilus is the major bacteria in the vaginal tract and is primarily \nresponsible for keeping the vaginal tract acidic and yeast free. Most of \nthe commercial yogurt sold in the U.S. has a very low L. acidophilus and L. \nbulgaricus count. Neither of these bacteria are obligate anaerobes with are \nmuch more important in dealing with the diarrhea problem. Gordon R. has told \nme through e-mail that he gives his patients L. acidophilus and several \ndifferent obligate anaerobes(which set-up shop in the colon) but he hasn't \ntold me which ones yet. The Lactobacillus genera are mostly facultative \nanaerobes and will set-up shop where they have access to oxygen if given a \nchance(mouth, anus, sinus cavity and vagina). Having these good bacteria \naround will greatly decrease the chance of candida blooms in the anal \nregion or the vagina. I have not proposed a systemic action for candida \nblooms. I know that others swear that all kinds of symptoms arise from \nthe evil yeast blooms in the body. I'm not ready to buy that yet. I do \nbelieve that complications at specific sites(vagina, anal and maybe lower \ncolon, sinus and mouth) can result from antibiotic use which removes the \ncompeting bacteria from these sites and thus lets candida grow unchecked.\nRestoring the right bacterial balance is the best way(in my opinion) to get \nrid of the problem. Anti-fungals, a low carbohydrate diet and vitamin A \nsupplementation may all help to minimize the local irritation until the \ngood bacteria can take over control of the food supply again and lower the \npH to basically starve the candida out.\n", " I am doing a term paper on steroids, actually the scientist who\nhelped crate the drug. I discovered that Joseph Fruton is one of the\nresearchers who helped create anabolic steroids. The only information on \nthis person I know is he was a biochemist that did research in the 1930's.\nI already did research at my local libraries, but I still need more\ninformation. My instructor is requiring resources from the computer\nnetworks. Please write back concerning my subject, any books, articles,\netc., will be appreciated. \n", "For those of you interested in the above Procedure, I am able to add the\nfollowing facts:\n\n1) This Procedure is not done in Philadelphia.\n\n2) It is performed in Maryland at Johns Hopkins for corrections between\n 0 and -5 and from -10 to -20 (diopters, I think are the units).\n\n3) It is performed in New York City at Manhattan Eye and Ear for corrections\n between 0 and -6.\n\nThe magic words to use when requesting information on this is not PRK (they\nthink you mean RK) but the excimer laser study (or protocol). This will get \nyou to the proper people.\n\n", "I know that there is a relationship between Fibromyalgia and deep \nsleep. I believe that there are five levels of sleep. I think \nthat R.E.M. sleep is the third deepest level of sleep and that \nthere are two deeper levels of sleep. If I am in error in any of \nthis, please let me know.\n\nWhich level of sleep is thought to be deficient in people with \nFibromyalgia? Are there any known sleep disturbances associated \nwith CFS? What sleep disturbances (if any) are associated with \nclinical depression? Do antidepressants correct the sleep \ndisturbances in these diseases? Are there any good books or \nmedical journal articles about sleep disturbances and these \ndiseases? Thank you in advance for all replies.", "Dangerous only to immune suppressed persons and fetuses. To them,\nit is extremely dangerous. Most of the rest of us have already had\nit and it isn't dangerous at all.\n\nCat feces are the worst. Pregnant women should never touch the litter box.\n\nCook your meat. Watch it with pets.\n\nYou'll have to read up on it. \n\n\nThere is an effective antibiotic that can keep it in check.\nOf course, it can't reverse damage already done, such as in\na fetus.\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "\n\n Nor is it mine. What I tried to explain to Marty was that it is clearly\nunderstood that antibiotic exposure is a risk factor for fungal infections\n- which is not the same as saying bacteria prevent fungal infections. \nMarty made this sound like a secret known only to veternarians and\nbiochemists. Anyone who has treated a urinary tract infection knowns\nthis. At some centers pre-op liver transplant patients receive bowel\ndecontamination directed at retaining \"good\" anaerobic flora in an attempt\nto prevent fungal colonization in this soon-to-be high risk group. I also\nuse lactobacillus to treat enteral nutrition associated diarrhea (that may\nbe in part due to alterations in gut flora). However, it is NOT part of\nmy routine practice to \"reinnoculate\" patients with \"good\" bacteria after\nantibiotics. I have seen no data on this practice preventing or treating\nfungal infections in at risk patients. Whether or not it is a \"logical\nextension\" from the available observations I'll leave to those of you who\nbase strong opinions and argue over such speculations in the absence of\nclinical trials. \n One place such therapy has been described is in treating particularly\nrecalcitrant cases of C. difficile colitis (NOT a fungal infection). There\nare case reports of using stool (ie someone elses) enemas to repopulate\nthe patients flora. Don't try this at home. \n\n\n Except that it isn't. At least symptomatically apparent disease.\n\n\n Seems like this is an excellent argument for ignoring anecdotal\nconventional wisdom (a euphemism for no data) and doing a good clinical\ntrial, like: \n\nAU Dismukes-W-E. Wade-J-S. Lee-J-Y. Dockery-B-K. Hain-J-D.\nTI A randomized, double-blind trial of nystatin therapy for the\n candidiasis hypersensitivity syndrome [see comments]\nSO N-Engl-J-Med. 1990 Dec 20. 323(25). P 1717-23.\n psychological tests. RESULTS. The three active-treatment regimens\n and the all-placebo regimen\n significantly reduced both vaginal and systemic symptoms (P less than\n 0.001), but nystatin did not reduce the systemic symptoms\n significantly more than placebo. [ . . . ]\n CONCLUSIONS. In women with presumed candidiasis\n hypersensitivity syndrome, nystatin does not reduce systemic or\n psychological symptoms significantly more than placebo. Consequently,\n the empirical recommendation of long-term nystatin therapy for such\n women appears to be unwarranted.\n\n Does this trial address every issue raised here, no. Jon Noring was not\nsurprised at this negative trial since they didn't use *Sporanox* (despite\nCrook's recommendation for Nystatin). Maybe they didn't avoid those\ncarbohydrates . . . \n\n\n Marty, you've also changed the terrain of the discussion from empiric\nitraconazole for undocumented chronic fungal sinusitis with systemic\nhypersensitivity symptoms (Noring syndrome) to the yoghurt and vitamin\ntherapy of undocumented candida enteritis (Elaine Palmer syndrome) with\nsystemic symptoms. There is significant difference between the cost and\nrisk of these two empiric therapeutic trials. Are we talking about \"real\"\ncandida infections, the whole \"yeast connection\" hypothesis, the efficacy\nof routine bacterial repopulation in humans, or the ability of anecdotally\neffective therapies (challenged by a negative randomized trial) to confirm\nan etiologic hypothesis (post hoc ergo propter hoc). We can't seem to\nfocus in on a disease, a therapy, or a hypothesis under discussion. ", "\n\nAs a child i can remember picking up a centipede and getting a rather painful \nsting, but it quickly subsided. Much less painful compared to a bee sting. \nCentipedes have a poison claw (one of the front feet) to stun their prey, but\nin my single experience it did not have a lot of \"bite\" to it.", "The DEA and other organizations would have the American people\nbelieve that we are winning the \"war on drugs\". I'm going to\ndispel the propaganda that the DEA is putting out by showing\nyou the drug war's *real* status. To help prove my assertions\nI've also posted two articles from USA Today that clearly\ndemonstrate that drug use among certain age groups *is* on the\nrise. If WOD is working, as we're led to believe, then drug\nabuse should have gone down substantially by now. The reality\nis, is that it has not gone down very much. If anything,\nsubstance abuse is on the rise. I'm also going to supply a\npossible solution to this problem.\n\nThe following text is an excerpt from an article about rock music\nand pot entitled \"Hello Again, Mary Jane\" which appears in the\ncurrent issue of Time magazine (April 19, 1993, p. 59).\n\n Law-enforcement officials say pot advocates are just blowing\n smoke when they talk about the comeback of the weed. \"Perhaps\n because of the change of administrations, the marijuana lobby\n is out in full force,\" says Robert Bonner, head of the Drug\n Enforcement Administration. \"The fact is, they're losing the\n battle.\" In 1985 more than 23% of youths ages 12 to 17 said\n they smoked marijuana; in 1991 that figure was 13%, and Bonner\n says it is still falling. Bonner also offers a reminder that\n studies confirm such marijuana health risks as destruction of\n nerve cells in the brain and lung damage.\n\nThe chart that follows was taken from the Wednesday, April 14, 1993\nissue of USA Today (\"Drug Use Up Among U.S. Eigth-graders\" by Mike\nSnider, p. 6D).\n\n Adolescents' choices\n\n Drugs used by eighth graders in the last month:\n Estimated, per 100 students\n 1991 1992 Pct. chg.\n Alcohol 25.1 26.1 +4%\n Cigarettes 14.3 15.5 +8%\n Marijuana 3.2 3.7 +16% \n Amphetamines 2.6 3.3 +27%\n LSD 0.6 0.9 +50%\n Cocaine 0.5 0.7 +40%\n Crack 0.3 0.5 +67%\n\n Source: University of Michigan Institute for Social Research,\n 1993 report\n\nWe are not winning the \"war on drugs\". I think you can see that one\nof the tactics that the DEA employs to give people the impression that\nthe \"war on drugs\" is being won is to selectively quote statistics---\nonly statistics that support their contention that drug use has gone\ndown. The excerpt from Time magazine that I included in this post is\nan excellent example of how organizations like the DEA attempt to\ndeceive the public.\n\nUsage of *one* particular drug may have gone down but at the same\ntime usage of other drugs may have gone *up* (a.k.a. substitution).\nAlso, drug usage among *one* particular age group may have gone down\nbut drug usage among another age group may have gone *up*. Therefore,\nif one takes a look at the big picture, taking into consideration *all*\nthe statistics, then it's obvious that the so-called \"war on drugs\" is\nbeing lost. Perhaps the drug war is being won as far as illegal drugs\ngo, but if one factors in alcohol abuse, smoking, and use of inhalants,\nthen the magnitude of the drug problem in this country can then placed\nin its true perspective.\n\nFor those of you who don't consider alcohol to be a drug then try\ndrinking a fifth of whiskey sometime and then come back and tell me\nthat it's not a drug. Agencies like the DEA only go after *illegal*\ndrugs. This is one of the reasons why the drug war is a fruitless\nattempt at preventing substance abuse---people will merely switch to\nanother drug if the one they were using becomes scarce or unpopular.\n\nThe solution to the drug abuse problem in this country may be to\nlegalize some---not all---drugs whose toxicity has been shown to be\nwithin reasonable limits (you won't drop dead after using it a few\ntimes) and then couple this with a massive drug education program.\nThe reason why I think legalization is *part* of the solution is\nbecause people seem to be able to easily obtain drugs despite the\ngovernment's efforts to the contrary---the money spent on drug\ninterdiction could be spent more effectively elsewhere (e.g., drug\neducation). Additionally, legalization would reduce crime because\nthe profit motive would be taken out of drug trafficking which often\ngoes along with other kinds of crime. Not to mention the fact that\naddicts would have less reason to prey on innocent people for their\nmoney and posessions in order to support their expensive habit;\nlegalization would cause the street price of drugs to fall\nsubstantially so drugs would be much more affordable to addicts.\n\nIMHO, the way to reduce substance abuse is to do to drugs what has been\ndone to smokers: make drug use socially unacceptable rather than try to\nemploy heavy-handed law enforcement and punish people by incarcerating\nthem. As you already know, people in the U.S. smoke a lot less than\nthey used to. This reduction in the number of smokers has been brought\nabout by public awareness campaigns, laws restricting where people can\nlight up, warning labels on cigarette packages, taxation on tobacco in\norder to reduce consumption, and so on. I propose that similar methods\nbe used to reduce substance abuse after legalization has been carried\nout. They are as follows:\n\n * Drugs being sold must come with clear, concise information which\n states the possible health hazzards involved with using this\n product and recommendations on how the drug should be used.\n Things like dosage levels and how long the drug should be used\n ought to accompany the packaging the drug is contained in.\n\n * All drugs should be taxed at a rate that generates a lot of\n revenue but not so high as to encourage people to acquire drugs\n through illegal channels. Part of the revenue collected from\n drug taxes should be used to fund drug education and law\n enforcement.\n\n * Make it a felony to sell drugs to minors (people under the age of\n 18). Anyone can sell drugs but they must not dodge paying the\n taxes on drugs or sell drugs with the warning information absent.\n Failure to pay the appropiate taxes on drugs or omitting warning\n information should also be a felony.\n\n * Establish a government agency whose job is to insure that the\n purity and safety of all drugs is as high as possible. This\n agency would try to prevent people from getting a hold of bad\n drugs---something that is a fairly serious problem now.\n\nI'm sure that many of the things I've discussed in this article have\nbeen hashed out before in this newsgroup. Nevertheless, I thought\nit was a good idea to give my two cents (actually a buck and a half...)\nall at once so you could get a good idea of where I currently stand on\nWOD. Go ahead and tear into my post; I'm sure there is something in it\nthat you may wish to take a different view on or flame. :) :) :) BTW,\nI posted the articles from USA Today to not only help prove my\nassertions but also to provide information on LSD usage among youths---\nsomething which I noticed some posters to this group were interested in.\n\nScott Kennedy, Brewer and Patriot", "\nI don't think MS has anything to brag about when it comes to following\nDPMI. But then, consistency is the hobgoblin, etc., I suppose.", "\nI have a new doctor who gave me a prescription today for something called \nSeptra DS. He said it may cause GI problems and I have a sensitive stomach \nto begin with. Anybody ever taken this antibiotic. Any good? Suggestions \nfor avoiding an upset stomach? Other tips?\n", "DN> From: nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye)\nDN> Briefly, this is a condition in which patients who have significant\nDN> residual weakness from childhood polio notice progression of the\nDN> weakness as they get older. One theory is that the remaining motor\nDN> neurons have to work harder and so die sooner.\n\nIf this theory were true, the muscle biopsy would show group atrophy\n(evidence of acute loss of enlarged motor units); it doesn't.\nInstead, the biopsy shows scattered, angulated, atrophic fibers.\nThis is more consistent with load-shedding by chronically overworked\nmotor neurons - the neurons survive, at the expense of increasingly\ndenervated muscle.", "\n: : \t\n: : Hello,\n\n: : Just one quick question:\n: : My father has had a back problem for a long time and doctors\n: : have diagnosed an operation is needed. Since he lives down in\n: : Mexico, he wants to know if there is a hospital anywhere in\n: : the United States particulary famous for this kind of surgery,\n: : kind of like Houston has a reputation for excellent doctors\n: : in eye surgery. Any additional info or pointers will be\n: : appreciated a whole lot!...\n\n: There is one hospital that is here in New York City that is famous for its\n: orthopedists, namely the Hospital for Special Surgery. They are located on\n: the upper east side of manhattan. If you want their address and phone let\n: me know, i'll get them, i dont know them off hand.\n\nfor those who are interested the hospitals i was referring to are: \n\nThe Hospital for Special Surgery\n535 East 70th Street\nNew York, NY 10021\n212-606-1555 (Physician Referral Service & info)\n \nThe Hospital for Joint Diseases\n301 East 17th Street\nNew York, NY 10003\n212-598-7600\n", "There's a chiropractor who has a stand in the middle of a shopping\nmall, offering free examinations. Part of the process involves a\nmultiple-jointed sensor arm and a computer that says in a computer-\nsounding voice \"digitize left PSIS\" \"digitize right PSIS\" \"digitize\nC7\" \"please stand with spine in neutral position\". I'm wondering\nwhether this doesn't really measure anything and the computer voice\nis to impress the victims, or whether it is measuring something\nthat chiropractors think is useful to measure.\n-- \nhaynes@cats.ucsc.edu\nhaynes@cats.bitnet", "\nYeah, Cancer is pretty cool, isn't it.", "\nCould it be because you're British, Phill, and living in Germany?\nWhile the EC working rules are more liberal than what we have in\nthe 1989 US-Canada FTA, there's probably a law about that (having\nhealth insurance coverage is a condition of my being down here,\nfor example).\n\nYou have mentioned this once before, yet both the NY Times profile on\nthe German sickness funds (late Jan.) and pamphlets that my girlfriend\ngives to her language students from the German consulate both say that\nit is \"voluntary\" (okay, there were quotation marks (-;) and that only\n90% of the population is covered by the sickness funds (analogous to\nour provincial health insurances, but not divided by province/state).\n\nAnother guy in health care policy says that the Turkish guest workers\naren't covered ... he's written to me a couple of times (he's not a\npost-er). I'll ask him ...\n\ngld", "Could anyone give me information on Umbilical hernias.\nThe patient is over weight and has a protruding hernia.\n\nSurgery may be risky due to the obesity.\nWhat other remedies could I try?\n\nThanx in advance", "\n\nIt could be one of the leukodystrophies (not adrenal, only\nboys get that). Surely you've been to a university pediatric\nneurology department. If not that is the next step. Biopsies\nmight help, especially if peripheral nerves are also affected.\nThere are so many of these diseases that would fit the symptoms\nyou gave that more can't be said at this time.\n\nI agree with your surmise that it is an autosomal recessive.\nIf so, your normal children won't have to worry too much unless\nthey marry near relatives. Most recessive genes are rare\nexcept in inbred communities (e.g. Lithuanian Jews).\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "Fucking news reader... I don't think this got posted... If it did, ignore\nit this time.\n\n(A response to Korey)\n\n------------ begin my response -----------------\n[...]\n\nMaybe because the claims deserve refute? The above abstract lists various\npossible links to cannabis use (unfiltered almost guaranteed) and lung\nproblems. Someone may get overly excited when they see that article, but \nwithout actually digging up the study and seeing how the studies gathered \ntheir data it really doesn't tell you shit. I'm going to track down that\nstudy hopefully tomarrow.\n\n[...]\n\n\nWhat justifies _the_ truth about drugs? Research? What sort of \nresearch? Correlational data can help establish a theory, but it does not\nprove anything.\n\n\nHeroin _is_ a relatively safe drug. What makes it unsafe are IV administration\nand shit like adulterants. There are side effects, like withdrawal, but they\neffect people differently. \n\n\nStereotypical statement. I know people who use heroin and opiates that \nfunction just fine in society. \n\n\nName some of these drugs so we can debate about them more specifically.\n\n[...]\n\nNO, NO, NO. (or at least I haven't been arguing this). there is not enough\ndata to form a scientific conclusion. that _doesn't_ mean that cannabis\nis benign to users' lungs. we can form all the theories we want, but they\nare only theories. some theories are supported by more evidence than others,\nand that makes them stronger. \n\n\nthe hell I can't! they state *UN-JUSTIFIED CONCLUSIONS* *AS FACT* as\na *POLITICAL* strategy to stop drug use.\n\n[...]\n\nIn general, I somewhat see what you're saying. And people like Jack Herer\ncontribute to this. This has been quite a big mind-fuck for me recently,\nand I've pretty came to the conclusion that you can't trust _ANYBODY_ by\nword of mouth alone -- my attitude about the general population has\ndecreased significantly. \n\ngotta run to class..\n\n-marc\nandersom@spot.colorado.edu\n", "Somewhere or other I read that when a person of Chinese heritage was\ntold that he had high blood pressure he responded by eating celery\n(sorry, I don't recall the \"dosage\"). Apparently this is supposed to\nwork in reducing hypertension.\n\nCan anyone out there verify this? And if it does work, does anyone\nknow the appropriate amounts and possible side-effects?", "\nYou'd have to purify the river water first. I'm not sure how practical\nthat is with the Mississippi. You'd better check with health agencies\nalong the way to see if there are toxic chemicals in the river. If\nit is just microorganisms, those can be filtered or killed, but you\nmay need activated charcoal or other means to purify from chemicals.\nBetter be same than sorry. Obviously, drinking the river without\nprocessing it is likely to make you sick from bacteria and parasites.\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "\nThis, at least, has already been determined: The Blue Cross medical\ncoverage for all federal employees is a good model for a future\nnational system. To get emergency medical care, anyone so insured\nmust always carry their Blue Cross card. Before entering a hospital,\nyou must notify Blue Cross, or they will refuse to pay your bills. \nIn an emergency, where you must be treated before notifying them, \nyou must inform them within 24 hours or (if you are unable to do\nso for medical reasons) the hospital must. Failing to do so within\n24 hours means they will not cover the hospitalization. In you need\nyour card to notify them (and without the card, the hospital certainly\nwouldn't know they had to.) Therefore, you are required to carry\nthe card at all times, or do without emergency medical coverage.", "Friend's unpleasant experience uring CT scan deleted\n\nI'd suggest writing a detailed letter about the incident to the\nhospital administrator. Specify the date and time. If possible the\nnames of the technicians. \n\nSend a copy to the clinician under whose care your friend was\nadmitted. I say this because, though your friend has no argument\nwith the doctor, I have found that administrators sometimes ignore\ncomplaints until the patient becomes litigious. Clinicians may not\nhave been informed of the complaint and are very surprised to find\nthemselves named in a suit.\n\nIf there is no response within a week send a follow up letter.\nAttach a photocopy of the original letter. Do this weekly until you\ndo get a response.\n\nCAT scans are non-invasive but they can be very scary. The scanner\ncan be a bad place for the claustrophobic. There was an interesting\nstudy in the BMJ, about 10 years ago, which found that around 10% of\npeople who had CAT scans found it so unpleasant that they would\nnever have another. This compares with 15% who said the same about a\nlumbar puncture. ", ":Chronic persistent hepatitis is usually diagnosed when someone does a liver\n:biopsy on a patient that has persistently elevated serum transaminases months\n:after a bout of acute viral hepatitis, or when someone is found to have\n:persistently elevated transaminases on routine screening tests. The degree of\n:elevation (in the serum transaminases) can be trivial, or as much as ten times\n:normal. Other blood chemistries are usually normal. \n:As a rule, patients with CPH have no clinical signs of liver disease. \n:Chronic active hepatitis can also be asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic, at\n:least initially, and that's why it's important to tell them apart by means of\n:a biopsy. The patient with CPH only needs to be reassured. The patient with\n:CAH needs to be treated.\n\nI just went back to the chapter in Cecil on chronic hepatitis. It seems\nthat indeed most cases of CPH are persistant viral hepatitis, whereas\nthere are a multitude of potential and probable causes for CAH (viral,\ndrugs, alcohol, autoimmune, etc.). Physicians seem to have a variety of\n\"thresholds\" for electing to biopsy someone's liver. Personally, I think\nthat if the patient is asymptomatic, with only slight transaminitis and\nnormal albumin and PT, one can simply follow them closely and not add the\npotential risks of a biopsy. Others may well biopsy such a patient, thus\nproviding these samples for study. It would be interesting to see if\nanyone's done any decision analysis on this.\n", "I love the FAQ. \n\nThe comment about contact lenses not being an option for any remaining\ncorrection after RK and possibly after PRK is interresting. Why is\nthis? Does anyone know for sure whether this applies to PRK as well?\n\nAlso, why is it possible to get a correction in PRK with involvement of\nonly about 5% of the corneal depth, while RK is done to a depth of up to\n95%? Why such a difference? I thought the proceedures were simmilar\nwith the exception of a laser being the cutting tool in PRK. I must not\nbe understanding all of the differences.\n\nIn the FAQ, the vision was considered less clear after the surgery than\nwith glasses alone. If this is completly attributable to the\nintentional slight undercorrection, then it can be compensated for when\nnecessary with glasses (or contacts, if they CAN be worn afterall!). It\nis important to know if that is not the case, however, and some other\nconsequence of the surgery would often interfere with clear vision. The\nfirst thing that came to my mind was a fogging of the lense, which\nglasses couldn't help. \n\nwould not help.\n", "\nOur doctors' monopoly is exactly the same as in the U.S., if not\nmore powerful now that they can dictate insurance payment rates,\nbut I don't know an answer to this one. Anecdotally, my friends\nwho are MD's (including my main buds from high school) talk about\nhow hard it is to turn \"state's witness\" against someone else ...\nno direct experience there, though.\n\n\nWell, what American private insurance plans cover travel expenses???\n\nSince our public insurance plans are publicly accountable, one can\nraise a stink in the media to try and extort benefits beyond which\none is entitled (hey, not Alberta's fault that he lives there) ... \nIf he lived in Cheyenne, WY his private insurance would've told him\nto go to hell for the travel expenses and that's that. An HMO would\nhave just kept quiet and let him go blind.\n\n\nI don't think that this has been shown with the DMC ...\n\n\nIt's regular practice in a hospital to figure out who needs to get\nat what facilities. Don't Americans have to arrange in advance for\noperations too? I think that there are two standards being applied\nhere, and that Canada can't give Beverly Hills-style treatment to\neverybody. It's not a big brother list ... it's more like calling\naround town for a table for dinner ...\n\n\nYes, and the Tories in Ottawa are trying to make them do that rather\nthan hope for a bigger grant from the feds and their province the \nnext time around. Whether it's using mop a couple of weeks longer\nor even selling services to Americans (remember, our system is cash\nbased and since our health care infrastructure is overbuilt except\nin specialties that require larger populations to generate business,\nwhy not? The alternative is closing unused wards ... business.).\n\n\nYou answered the question yourself ... \"private nonprofit foundations\nhave to make money somehow\", and I think that it's about time that\nthey acted like the private hospitals that they are. Personally,\nI'm fed up with Canadian socialists trying to tell everyone that\ntheir health care is free when we are actually buying insurance\n(that's one at you, Bob Rae!!).\n\n\nSince we have always been evaluated in an OECD style, I don't see\nhow ... remember, OECD counts both private and public funds, and\nin Canada like France and Germany, 30% of health care spending is\nprivate funds (i.e., not the basic health insurance money).\n\n\nMinor copayments can flush out abusers. Remember that our \"system\"\nis only an insurance policy. But our costs aren't rising fast\nenough to ensure adequate copayments/deductibles ... last year,\nQuebec's user-fee proposal came out with the number of \"$5\" as\nthe necessary hike that could be done through a copayment rather\nthan give the QMA a raise. And it's not contract time yet, as\nfar as I can tell from UPI Clarinet ...\n\nEven the new Reform Party, a breakoff of traditionalists from the\nConservatives with a mildly \"libertarian\" faction, holds our public\nhealth insurance as an untouchable but that just a few people have to\nbe reminded that it's not free (the average Canadian/European is more\nfiscally naive than their American counterparts on issues like these).\nBut no mention of copayments anywhere to be seen ... but cutting public\nspending all over the place, and bringing back the death penalty, with\nlittle haste if elected.\n\n\nSorry! (-; It's just that I even run into people from Buffalo\nand from Michigan who don't know ...\n\n\nYeah, but there'd be a lot of lead-time and a health-care crisis that\nwould preclude it. If provincial governments (as bad as some of them\nare; heck, we have the NDP cleaning up a spending mess made by the\nConservatives in Saskatchewan - embarassing!) can be so irresponsible,\nthere is still reallocation --- health insurance is so important that\nit's about the only thing that can inspire open rebellion and violent\ninsurrection outside of the hockey rink. Right now, attempts to get\nthe system and its users to learn good habits are being treated like\ncod-liver oil ...\n\n\nMost Americans are fearful of a single-tier system ... (-;\n\nSeriously, there are few areas that have sufficient population for a\ntwo/more-tiered system like what the French have ... a health policy\nprof, D.G. Shea, has cited studies in the NEJM that indicate having\na population of 500,000 is necessary for adequate competition ...\nand in Canada, there are only four cities west of the Great Lakes\nwith that population or larger.\n\nAnyways, the numbers show that costs have held steadier than those\nin the U.S. and barring any future Chernobyl-like crisis, sudden\ntransients in spending are unlikely. In fact, the health allocation\nis one of the most well-behaved sectors of spending up north so any\ntalk of bankruptcy is talk-radio fodder far away from the border.\n\n\nThis won't be overnight, and something like this would force Canada\nto have a system more like the French one ... but that's not a bad\nthing, and the change will be minimal (i.e., add copayments and\nfrustrate the socialists chanting \"Hey, it's *free*!\").\n\ngld", ": A woman once told me her doctor told her that I\n: could catch, asymptomatically, her yeast infection\n: from her, then give it back to her, causing\n: a relapse.\n\n: Probably bogus, but if not, it's another reason to use\n: latex...\n\n: Steve\n\nIt isn't bogus. I had chronic vaginal yeast infections that would go away\nwith cream but reappear in about 2 weeks. I had been on 3 rounds of\nantibiotics for a resistant sinus infection and my husband had been on\namoxicillin also for a sinus infection. After six months of this, I went\nto a gynecologist who had me culture my husband seminal fluid. After 7\ndays incubation he had quite a bit of yeast growth (it was confirmed by\nthe lab). A round of Nizerol for him cleared both of us.", "\nThat's fascinating. I heard that the Chinese, rather than\nthe Italians, invented pasta.", "\nI attribute my success to several factors:\n\nVery low fat. Except when someone else has cooked a meal for me,\nI only eat fruit, vegetables, and whole grain or bran cereals. I\nestimate I only get about 5 to 10 percent of my calories from fat.\n\nVery little sugar or salt.\n\nVery high fiber. Most Americans get about 10 grams. 25 to 35 are\nrecommended. I get between 50 and 150. Sometimes 200. (I've heard\nof people taking fiber pills. It seems unlikely that pills can\ncontain enough fiber to make a difference. It would be about as\nlikely as someone getting fat by popping fat pills. Tablets are\njust too small, unless you snarf down hundreds of them daily.)\n\nMy \"clean your plate\" conditioning works *for* me. Eating the last\n10% takes half my eating time, and gives satiety a chance to catch\nup, so I don't still feel hungry and go start eating something else.\n\nI don't eat when I'm not hungry (unless I'm sure I'll get hungry\nshortly, and eating won't be practical then).\n\nI bike to work, 22 miles a day, year round. Fast. I also bike to\nstores, movies, and everywhere else, as I've never owned a car.\nI estimate this burns about 1000 calories a day. It also helps\nbuild and maintain muscle mass, prevent insulin resistance (diabetes\nruns in my family), and increase my metabolism. (Even so, my\nmetabolism is so low that when I'm at rest I'm most comfortable\nwith a temperature in the 90s (F), and usually wear a sweater if\nit drops to 80.) Cycling also motivates me to avoid every excess\nounce. (Cyclists routinely pay a premium for cycling products that\nweigh slightly less than others. But it's easier and cheaper to trim\nweight from the rider than from the vehicle.)\n\nThere's no question in my mind that my metabolism is radically\ndifferent from that of most people who have never been fat. Fortunately,\nit isn't different in a way that precludes excellent health.\n\nObviously, I can't swear that every obese person who does what I've\ndone will have the success I did. But I've never yet heard of one who\ndid try it and didn't succeed.\n\n\nI'm sure everyone's weight cycles, whether or not they've ever been fat.\nI usually eat extremely little salt. When I do eat something salty,\nmy weight can increase overnight by as much as ten pounds. It comes\noff again over a week or two.\n-- \nKeith Lynch, kfl@access.digex.com", "\n \n-Allergy medicine, huh? Is this just to get rid of the resultant migraine or\nwhatever, or does it actually suppress allergic reactions? (i.e. like an\nantihistamine does?) As far as doctors over here are concerned, if you slip up\nand eat something you're allergic to (even if they won't test you to tell you\nwhat to avoid) then tough; if a _cheap_ medicine will alleviate your symptoms,\nthen fine, otherwise you just suffer. One doctor did prescribe me imigran (costs\nthe NHS #48 for 6 tablets) after having to rehydrate me because I'd been throwing\nup for four solid days and couldn't even drink water - but I got taken off it\nagain when I moved and had to change doctors. Reasoning: they did not know what\nthe side-effects were because it was new. OK, fine - but it has passed the\nsafety tests to get on the prescription list, and anyway I was prepared to take\nthe risk to have quality of life now. The only alternatives I have is to get it\nprescribed privately, which I cannot afford, or to pay a private allergy\nspecialist to test me and tell me what to avoid. I am fairly certain I am\nallergic to more than one chemical additive, as a lot of things I can't eat have\nnothing in common except things I know are safe, so testing myself isn't really\nan option; there are too many permutations.\n", "\n\nI'm not sure about that. Did you see the \"poll\" they took that showed\nthat most people thought physicians should be paid $80,000 per year\ntops? That's all I make, but I doubt that most physicians are going\nto work very hard for that kind of bread. Many wouldn't be able\nto service their med school debts on that. Mike Royko had a good\ncolumn about it.\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "------------- cut here -----------------\nUniversity of Arizona\nTucson, Arizona\n\n\n\n Suggested Reading\n\nTan SL, Royston P, Campbell S, Jacobs HS, Betts J, Mason B, Edwards RG (1992). \nCumulative conception and Livebirth rates after in-vitro fertilization. Lancet \n339:1390-1394. \n\nFor further information, call:\n Physicians' Resource Line\n 1-800-328-5868\n in Tucson:\n 694-5868\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 28\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n\n\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n Articles\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n\n LOW LEVELS OF AIRBORNE PARTICLES LINKED\n TO SERIOUS ASTHMA ATTACKS\n American Lung Association \n\n A new study published by the American Lung Association has shown that \nsurprisingly low concentrations of airborne particles can send people with \nasthma rushing to emergency rooms for treatment. \n The Seattle-based study showed that roughly one in eight emergency visits \nfor asthma in that city was linked to exposure to particulate air pollution. \nThe actual exposure levels recorded in the study were far below those deemed \nunsafe under federal air quality laws. \n \"People with asthma have inflamed airways, and airborne particles tend to \nexacerbate that inflammation,\" said Joel Schwartz, Ph.D., of the Environmental \nProtection Agency, who was the lead author of the study. \"When people are on \nthe threshold of having, a serious asthma attack, particles can push them over \nthe edge.\" \n The Seattle Study correlated 13 months of asthma emergency room visits \nwith daily levels of PM,,,. or particulate matter with an aerodynamic diameter \nof 10 microns or less. These finer particles are considered hazardous because \nthey are small enough penetrate into the lung. Cities are considered out of \ncompliance with clean air laws if the 24-hour average concentration of PM10 \nexceeds 150 micrograms per cubic millimeter of air. \n In Seattle however, a link between fine particles and asthma was found at \nlevels as low as 30 micrograms. The authors concluded that for every 30 \nmicrogram increase in the four-day average of PM10, the odds of someone with \nasthma needing emergency treatment increased by 12 percent. \n The findings were published in the April American Review of Respiratory \nDisease, an official journal of the American Thoracic Society, the Lung \nAssociation's medical section. \n The study is the latest in a series of recent reports to suggest that \nparticulate matter is a greatly under appreciated health threat. A 1992 study \nby Dr. Schwartz and Douglas Dockery, Ph.D., of Harvard found that particles \nmay be causing roughly 60,000 premature deaths each year in the United States. \nOther studies have linked particulate matter to increased respiratory symptoms \nand bronchitis in children. \n \"Government officials and the media are still very focused on ozone,\" \nsays Dr. Schwartz. \"But more and more research is showing that particles are \nbad actors as well.\" One problem in setting, standards for particulate \nair pollution is that PMIO is difficult to study. Unlike other regulated \npollutants such as ozone and carbon monoxide, particulate matter is a complex \nand varying mixture of substances, including carbon, hydrocarbons, dust, and \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 29\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nacid aerosols. \n \"Researchers can't Put people in exposure chambers to study the effects \nof particulate air pollution,\" says Dr. Schwartz. \"We have no way of \nduplicating the typical urban mix of particles. \" Consequently, most of what \nis known about particulates has been learned through population-based research \nlike the Seattle study. \n Given that the EPA's current priority is to review the ozone and sulfur \ndioxide standards, the agency is unlikely to reexamine the PM10 standard any \ntime soon. Until changes are made, there appears to be little people with \nasthma can do to protect themselves from airborne particles.\n \"In some areas, you can get reports on air quality, but the reports only \ncover the pollutant that is closest to violating its standard, and that's \nrarely particulate matter,\" says Dr. Schwartz. \"However, PM10 doesn't have \nto be near its violation range to be unhealthy.\"\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 30\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n NIH Consensus Development Conference on Melanoma\n\nThe National Institutes of Health Consensus Development Conference on \nDiagnosis and Treatment of Early Melanoma brought together experts in \ndermatology, pathology, epidemiology, public education, surveillance \ntechniques, and potential new technologies as well as other health care \nprofessionals and the public to address (1) the clinical and histological \ncharacteristics of early melanoma; (2) the appropriate diagnosis, management, \nand followup of patients with early melanoma; (3) the role of dysplastic nevi \nand their significance; and (4) the role of education and screening in \npreventing melanoma morbidity and mortality. Following 2 days of \npresentations by experts and discussion by the audience, a consensus panel \nweighed the scientific evidence and prepared their consensus statement. \n \nAmong their findings, the panel recommended that (1) melanoma in situ is a \ndistinct entity effectively treated surgically with 0.5 centimeter margins; \n(2) thin invasive melanoma, less than 1 millimeter thick, has the potential \nfor long-term survival in more than 90 percent of patients after surgical \nexcision with a 1 centimeter margin; (3) elective lymph node dissections and \nextensive staging evaluations are not recommended in early melanoma; (4) \npatients with early melanoma are at low risk for relapse but may be at high \nrisk for development of subsequent melanomas and should be followed closely; \n(5) some family members of patients with melanoma are at increased risk for \nmelanoma and should be enrolled in surveillance programs; and (6) education \nand screening programs have the potential to decrease morbidity and mortality \nfrom melanoma. \n \nA copy of the full text of the consensus panel's statement is available by \ncalling the NIH Office of Medical Applications of Research at (301) 496-1143 \nor by writing to: Office of Medical Applications of Research, National \nInstitutes of Health, Federal Building, Room 618, Bethesda, MD 20892.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 31\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n NCI-Designated Cancer Centers\n\nThe Cancer Centers Program is comprised of 55 NCI-designated Cancer Centers \nactively engaged in multidisciplinary research efforts to reduce cancer \nincidence, morbidity, and mortality. Within the program, there are four types \nof cancer centers: basic science cancer centers (14), which engage primarily \nin basic cancer research; clinical cancer centers (12), which focus on \nclinical research; \"comprehensive\" cancer centers (28), which emphasize a \nmultidisciplinary approach to cancer research, patient care, and community \noutreach; and consortium cancer centers (1), which specialize in cancer \nprevention and control research. \n \nAlthough some cancer centers existed in the late 1960s and the 1970s, it was \nthe National Cancer Act of 1971 that authorized the establishment of 15 new \ncancer centers, as well as continuing support for existing ones. The passage \nof the act also dramatically transformed the centers' structure and broadened \nthe scope of their mission to include all aspects of basic, clinical, and \ncancer control research. Over the next two decades, the centers' program grew \nprogressively. \n \nIn 1990, there were 19 comprehensive cancer centers in the nation. Today, \nthere are 28 of these institutions, all of which meet specific NCI criteria \nfor comprehensive status. \n \nTo attain recognition from the NCI as a comprehensive cancer center, an \ninstitution must pass rigorous peer review. Under guidelines newly \nestablished in 1990, the eight criteria for \"comprehensiveness\" include the \nrequirement that a center have a strong core of basic laboratory research in \nseveral scientific fields, such as biology and molecular genetics, a strong \nprogram of clinical research, and an ability to transfer research findings \ninto clinical practice. \n \nMoreover, five of the criteria for comprehensive status go significantly \nbeyond that required for attaining a Cancer Center Support Grant (also \nreferred to as a P30 or core grant), the mechanism of choice for supporting \nthe infrastructure of a cancer center's operations. These criteria encompass \nstrong participation in NCI-designated high-priority clinical trials, \nsignificant levels of cancer prevention and control research, and important \noutreach and educational activities--all of which are funded by a variety of \nsources. \n \nThe other types of cancer centers also have special characteristics and \ncapabilities for organizing new programs of research that can exploit \nimportant new findings or address timely research questions. \n \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 32\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nOf the 55 NCI-designated Cancer Centers, 14 are of the basic science type. \nThese centers engage almost entirely in basic research, although some centers \nengage in collaborative research with outside clinical research investigators \nand in cooperative projects with industry to generate medical applications \nfrom new discoveries in the laboratory. \n \nClinical cancer centers, in contrast, focus on both basic research and \nclinical research within the same institutional framework, and frequently \nincorporate nearby affiliated clinical research institutions into their \noverall research programs. There are 12 such centers today. \n \nFinally, consortium cancer centers, of which there is one, are uniquely \nstructured and concentrate on clinical research and cancer prevention and \ncontrol research. These centers interface with state and local public health \ndepartments for the purpose of achieving the transfer of effective prevention \nand control techniques from their research findings to those institutions \nresponsible for implementing population-wide public health programs. \nConsortium centers also are heavily engaged in collaborations with \ninstitutions that conduct clinical trial research and coordinate community \nhospitals within a network of cooperating institutions in clinical trials. \n \nTogether, the 55 NCI-Designated Cancer Centers continue to work toward \ncreating new and innovative approaches to cancer research, and through \ninterdisciplinary efforts, to effectively move this research from the \nlaboratory into clinical trials and into clinical practice. \n \nComprehensive Cancer Centers (Internet addresses are given where available) \n \nUniversity of Alabama at Birmingham Comprehensive Cancer Center\nBasic Health Sciences Building, Room 108\n1918 University Boulevard\nBirmingham, Alabama 35294\n(205) 934-6612\n \nUniversity of Arizona Cancer Center\n1501 North Campbell Avenue\nTucson, Arizona 85724\n(602) 626-6372\nInternet: syd@azcc.arizona.edu\n \nJonsson Comprehensive Cancer Center\nUniversity of California at Los Angeles\n200 Medical Plaza\nLos Angeles, California 90027\n(213) 206-0278\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 33\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nInternet: rick@jccc.medsch.ucla.edu\n \nKenneth T. Norris Jr. Comprehensive Cancer Center\nUniversity of Southern California\n1441 Eastlake Avenue\nLos Angeles, California 90033-0804\n(213) 226-2370\n \nYale University Comprehensive Cancer Center\n333 Cedar Street\nNew Haven, Connecticut 06510\n(203) 785-6338\n \nLombardi Cancer Research Center\nGeorgetown University Medical Center\n3800 Reservoir Road, N.W.\nWashington, D.C. 20007\n(202) 687-2192\n \nSylvester Comprehensive Cancer Center\nUniversity of Miami Medical School\n1475 Northwest 12th Avenue\nMiami, Florida 33136\n(305) 548-4800\nInternet: hlam@mednet.med.miami.edu\n \nJohns Hopkins Oncology Center\n600 North Wolfe Street\nBaltimore, Maryland 21205\n(410) 955-8638\n \nDana-Farber Cancer Institute\n44 Binney Street\nBoston, Massachusetts 02115\n(617) 732-3214\nInternet: Kristie_Stevenson@macmailgw.dfci.harvard.edu\n \nMeyer L. Prentis Comprehensive Cancer Center of Metropolitan\nDetroit\n110 East Warren Avenue\nDetroit, Michigan 48201\n(313) 745-4329\nInternet: cummings%oncvx1.dnet@rocdec.roc.wayne.edu\n \nUniversity of Michigan Cancer Center\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 34\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n101 Simpson Drive\nAnn Arbor, Michigan 48109-0752\n(313) 936-9583\nBITNET: kallie.bila.michels@um.cc.umich.edu\n \nMayo Comprehensive Cancer Center\n200 First Street Southwest\nRochester, Minnesota 55905\n(507) 284-3413\n \nNorris Cotton Cancer Center\nDartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center\nOne Medical Center Drive\nLebanon, New Hampshire 03756\n(603) 646-5505\nBITNET: edward.bresnick@dartmouth.edu\n \nRoswell Park Cancer Institute\nElm and Carlton Streets\nBuffalo, New York 14263\n(716) 845-4400\n \nColumbia University Comprehensive Cancer Center\nCollege of Physicians and Surgeons\n630 West 168th Street\nNew York, New York 10032\n(212) 305-6905\nInternet: janie@cuccfa.ccc.columbia.edu\n \nMemorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center\n1275 York Avenue\nNew York, New York 10021\n(800) 525-2225\n \nKaplan Cancer Center\nNew York University Medical Center\n462 First Avenue\nNew York, New York 10016-9103\n(212) 263-6485\n \nUNC Lineberger Comprehensive Cancer Center\nUniversity of North Carolina School of Medicine\nChapel Hill, North Carolina 27599\n(919) 966-4431\n \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 35\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nDuke Comprehensive Cancer Center\nP.O. Box 3814\nDurham, North Carolina 27710\n(919) 286-5515\n \nCancer Center of Wake Forest University at the Bowman Gray School\nof Medicine\n300 South Hawthorne Road\nWinston-Salem, North Carolina 27103\n(919) 748-4354\nInternet: ccwfumail@phs.bgsm.wfu.edu\n \nOhio State University Comprehensive Cancer Center\n300 West 10th Avenue\nColumbus, Ohio 43210\n(614) 293-5485\nInternet: dyoung@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu\n \nFox Chase Cancer Center\n7701 Burholme Avenue\nPhiladelphia, Pennsylvania 19111\n(215) 728-2570\nInternet: s_davis@fccc.edu\n \nUniversity of Pennsylvania Cancer Center\n3400 Spruce Street\nPhiladelphia, Pennsylvania 19104\n(215) 662-6364\n \nPittsburgh Cancer Institute\n200 Meyran Avenue\nPittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15213-2592\n(800) 537-4063\n \nThe University of Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer Center\n1515 Holcombe Boulevard\nHouston, Texas 77030\n(713) 792-3245\n \nVermont Cancer Center\nUniversity of Vermont\n1 South Prospect Street\nBurlington, Vermont 05401\n(802) 656-4580\n \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 36\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nFred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center\n1124 Columbia Street\nSeattle, Washington 98104\n(206) 667-4675\nInternet: sedmonds@cclink.fhcrc.org\n \nUniversity of Wisconsin Comprehensive Cancer Center\n600 Highland Avenue\nMadison, Wisconsin 53792\n(608) 263-8600\nBITNET: carbone@uwccc.biostat.wisc.edu\n \n \n \nClinical Cancer Centers\n \n \nUniversity of California at San Diego Cancer Center\n225 Dickinson Street\nSan Diego, California 92103\n(619) 543-6178\nInternet: dedavis@ucsd.edu\n \nCity of Hope National Medical Center\nBeckman Research Institute\n1500 East Duarte Road\nDuarte, California 91010\n(818) 359-8111 ext. 2292\n \nUniversity of Colorado Cancer Center\n4200 East 9th Avenue, Box B188\nDenver, Colorado 80262\n(303) 270-7235\n \nUniversity of Chicago Cancer Research Center\n5841 South Maryland Avenue, Box 444\nChicago, Illinois 60637\n(312) 702-6180\nInternet: judith@delphi.bsd.uchicago.edu\n \nAlbert Einstein College of Medicine\n1300 Morris Park Avenue\nBronx, New York 10461\n(212) 920-4826\n \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 37\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nUniversity of Rochester Cancer Center\n601 Elmwood Avenue, Box 704\nRochester, New York 14642\n(716) 275-4911\nInternet: rickb@wotan.medicine.rochester.edu\n \nIreland Cancer Center Case Western Reserve University\nUniversity Hospitals of Cleveland\n2074 Abington Road\nCleveland, Ohio 44106\n(216) 844-5432\n \nRoger Williams Cancer Center\nBrown University\n825 Chalkstone Avenue\nProvidence, Rhode Island 02908\n(401) 456-2071\n \nSt. Jude Children's Research Hospital\n332 North Lauderdale Street\nMemphis, Tennessee 38101-0318\n(901) 522-0306\nInternet: meyer@mbcf.stjude.org\n \nInstitute for Cancer Research and Care\n4450 Medical Drive\nSan Antonio, Texas 78229\n(512) 616-5580\n \nUtah Regional Cancer Center\nUniversity of Utah Health Sciences Center\n50 North Medical Drive, Room 2C110\nSalt Lake City, Utah 84132\n(801) 581-4048\nBITNET: hogan@cc.utah.edu\n \nMassey Cancer Center\nMedical College of Virginia\nVirginia Commonwealth University\n1200 East Broad Street\nRichmond, Virginia 23298\n(804) 786-9641\n \n \nConsortia\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 38\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n \nDrew-Meharry-Morehouse Consortium Cancer Center\n1005 D.B. Todd Boulevard\nNashville, Tennessee 37208\n(615) 327-6927\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 39\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n\n\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n General Announcments\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n\n THE UCI MEDICAL EDUCATION SOFTWARE REPOSITORY \n\nThis is to announce the establishment of an FTP site at the University of \nCalifornia, for the collection of shareware, public-domain software and other \ninformation relating to Medical Education. \n\nSpecifically, we are interested in establishing this site as a clearinghouse \nfor personally developed software that has been developed for local medical \neducation programs. We welcome all contributions that may be shared with \nother users. \n\nTo connect to the UCI Medical Education Software Repository, ftp to: \n\n FTP.UCI.EDU\n\nThe Repository currently offers both MSDOS and Macintosh software, and we hope \nto support other operating systems (UNIX, MUMPS, AMIGA?). \n\nUploads are welcome. We actively solicit information and software which you \nhave personaly developed or have found useful in your local medical education \nefforts, either as an instructor or student. \n\nOnce you have connected to the site via FTP, cd (change directory) to either \nthe med-ed/mac/incoming or the med-ed/msdos/incoming directories, change the \nmode to binary and \"send\" or \"put\" your files. Note that you won't be able to \nsee the files with the \"ls\" or \"dir\" commands. Please compress your files as \nappropriate to the operating system (ZIP for MSDOS; Compactor or something \nsimilar for Macintosh) to save disk space. \n\nAfter uploading, please send email to Steve Clancy (slclancy@uci.edu) (for \nMSDOS) or Albert Saisho (saisho@uci.edu) (for MAC) describing the file(s) you \nhave uploaded and any other information we might need to describe it.\n\nNote that we can only accept software or information that has been designated \nas shareware, public-domain or that may otherwise be distributed freely. \nPlease do not upload commercial software! Doing so may jeopardize the \nexistence of this FTP site. \n\nIf you wish to upload software for other operating systems, please contact \neither Steve Clancy, M.L.S. or Albert Saisho, M.D. at the addresses above.\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 40\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n\n\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n AIDS News Summaries\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n\n AIDS Daily Summary\n\nThe Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) National AIDS \nClearinghouse makes available the following information as a public service \nonly. Providing this information does not constitute endorsement by the CDC, \nthe CDC Clearinghouse, or any other organization. Reproduction of this text \nis encouraged; however, copies may not be sold. Copyright 1993, Information, \nInc., Bethesda, MD \n\n ================================================================== \n April 12, 1993 \n ================================================================== \n\n\"NIH Set to Test Multiple AIDS Vaccines\" Reuters (04/08/93) (Frank, \nJacqueline) \n\n Washington--The Clinton administration will permit the National \nInstitutes of Health to test multiple AIDS vaccines instead of only allowing \nthe Army to test a single vaccine, administration sources said Thursday. The \ndecision ends the controversy between Army AIDS researchers who had hoped to \ntest a vaccine made by MicroGeneSys Inc. and the National Institutes of \nHealth, which contended that multiple vaccines should be tested. Health and \nHuman Services Secretary Donna Shalala said a final announcement on the \ntherapeutic vaccine trials was expected to be made last Friday. Companies \nincluding Genentech Inc., Chiron Corp., and Immuno AG have already told NIH \nthat they are prepared to participate in the vaccine tests. The testing is \nintended to demonstrate whether AIDS vaccines are effective in thwarting the \nreplication of HIV in patients already infected. Shalala refuted last week's \nreports that the Clinton administration had decided the Army's test of the \nMicroGeneSys VaxSyn should proceed without tests of others at the same time. \n\"The report was inaccurate, and I expect there to be some announcement in the \nnext 24 hours about that particular AIDS research project,\" said Shalala. \nAdministration sources subsequently confirmed that NIH director Dr. Bernadine \nHealy and Food and Drug Administration Commissioner David Kessler had \nconvinced the White House that multiple vaccines should be tested \nsimultaneously. But MicroGeneSys president Frank Volvovitz said a test of \nmultiple vaccines could triple the cost of the trial and delay it by two \nyears.\n\n================================================================== \n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 41\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n\"The Limits of AZT's Impact on HIV\" U.S. News & World Report (04/12/93) Vol. \n114, No. 14, P. 18 \n\n AZT has become the most widely used drug to fight AIDS since it was \napproved by the Food and Drug Administration in 1987. Burroughs Wellcome, \nthe manufacturer of AZT, made $338 million last year alone from sales of the \ndrug. However, a team of European researchers recently reported that \nalthough HIV-positive patients taking AZT demonstrated a slightly lower risk \nof developing AIDS within the first year of treatment, that benefit \ndisappeared two years later. The Lancet published preliminary findings of \nthe three-year study, which could give more reason for critics to argue the \ndrug's cost, side effects, and general efficacy. Even though U.S. \nresearchers concede the study was more comprehensive than American trials, \nmany argue the European researchers' suggestion that HIV-positive patients \nexperience little improvement in their illness before the development of \nAIDS symptoms. In addition, researchers have long been familiar with the \n--------- end of part 3 ------------\n", "[article deleted]\n\nIt sounds like a joke (but then the war on drugs has always been a joke...).\n", "\nHmmm. The last time I got stung by a bee I experienced the same reaction\nthe first poster's brother did. We went off to the doctor to see if I\nshould worry about the fact that my foot was now about 3 times it's normal\nsize. (And itched!!! Ow!) He basically said I shouldn't this time, but\nthat bee sting allergy was not something you tended to get aclimatized to,\nbut were something that each time got progressively worse generally and that\nnext time could be the time I go into anaphylactic shock. Admittedly this\nwas many years ago when I was young. Since then I just make sure I don't\nget stung. I also should carry a bee sting kit with me, but I don't. \n\nThis isn't scientific or proof, but this would lead me to believe it's not a\ndifferent reaction, just a different degree of reaction. Allergies work\nthat way. People have various reactions. Sort of like diabetes, some\npeople can get by with just monitoring their diet, others have to monitor\ntheir diet and use insulin sometimes while others have to watch their diet\nlike a hawk and use insulin regularly. \n\nI think MSG is probably similar...some people have allergic reactions to\nit. Some people are allergic to fermented things and can't use soy\nsauce...but the chinese have been using it for centuries... that doesn't\nnecessarily mean that it's safe for everyone. ", "\n\nI'm sure the Pittsburgh group has published the baboon work, but I\ndon't know where. In Chicago they were doing lobe transplants from\nliving donors, and I'm sure they've published. I don't read the\ntransplant literature. I just see the liver transplant patients\nwhen they get into neurologic trouble (pretty frequent), so that\nand the newspapers and scuttlebutt is the way I keep up with what\nthey are doing. Howard Doyle works with them, and can tell you more.\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "while I \n\nSeeing a dermatologist sounds like a very good idea if you are\nworried about your dry skin.", " \nAre you arguing that the Lyme lab test is accurate?\nThe books that I've read say that in general the tests\nhave a 50-50 chance of being correct. (The tests\nresult in a large number of both false positives and\nfalse negatives. I am in the latter case.)\n\nWe could get those same odds by \"rolling the dice\".\n", "\n[...]\n\n In the September 1992 issue of THE TUFTS UNIVERSITY DIET AND NUTRITION\n LETTER, there is a three page article about artificial sweeteners. What\n follows are those excerpts which deal specifically with Nutrasweet.\n\n [Reproduced without permission]\n\n\t The controversy [over aspartame] began six years ago in England,\n\twhere a group of researchers found that aspartame, marketed under\n\tthe tradename Nutrasweet, appears to stimulate appetite and,\n\tpresumably, the eating of more calories in the long run than if\n\ta person simply consumed sugar. When researchers asked a group\n\tof 95 people to drink plain water, aspartame-sweetened water, and\n\tsugared water, they said that overall they felt hungriest after\n\tdrinking the artificially sweetened beverage.\n\t The study received widespread media attention and stirred a\n\tgood deal of concern among the artificial-sweetener-using public.\n\tHowever, its results were questionable at best, since the researchers\n\tdid not go on to measure whether the increase in appetite did\n\tactually translate into an increase in eating. The two do not\n\tnecessarily go hand in hand.\n\t In the years that followed, more than a dozen studies examining\n\tthe effect of aspartame on appetite -- and eating -- were conducted.\n\tAnd after reviewing every one of them, the director of the\n\tLaboratory of the Study of Human Ingestive Behavior at Johns Hopkins\n\tUniversity, Barbara Rolls, Ph.D., concluded that consuming aspartame-\n\tsweetened foods and drinks is not associated with any increase in\n\tthe amount of food eaten afterward.\n\n\t One artificial sweetener that is not typically accused of causing\n\tcancer is aspartame. But it most certainly has been blamed for a\n\thost of other ills. Since its introduction in 1981, the government\n\thas received thousands of complaints accusing it of causing\n\teverything from headaches to nausea to mood swings to anxiety.\n\tStill, years of careful scientific study conducted both before and\n\tafter the sweetener's entering the market have failed to confirm\n\tthat it can bring about adverse health effects. That's why the\n\tCenters for Disease Control (the government agency charged with\n\tmonitoring public health), the American Medical Association's\n\tCouncil on Scientific Affairs, and the Food and Drug Administration\n\thave given aspartame, one of the most studied food additives, a\n\tclean bill of health.\n\t Granted, the FDA has set forth an \"acceptable daily intake\" of\n\t50 milligrams of aspartame per kilogram of body weight. To exceed\n\tthe limit, however, a 120-pound (55 kg.) woman would have to take\n\tin 2,750 milligrams of aspartame -- the amount in 15 cans of\n\taspartame-sweetened soda pop, 14 cups of gelatin, 22 cups of yogurt,\n\tor 55 six-ounce servings of aspartame-containing hot cocoa,...\n\tA 175-pound (80 kg.) man would have to consume some 4,000 milligrams\n\tof the sweetener -- the amount in 22 cans of soda pop or 32 cups\n\tof yogurt -- to go over the limit. [chart with aspartame content\n\tof selected foods omitted]\n\t Only one small group of people must be certain to stay away\n\tfrom aspartame: those born with a rare metabolic disorder called\n\tphenylketonuria, or PKU. The estimated one person in every 12,000\n\tto 15,000 who has it is unable to properly metabolize an essential\n\tamino acid in aspartame called phenylalanine. Once a child\n\tconsumes it, it builds up in the body and can ultimately cause\n\tsuch severe problems as mental retardation. To help people with\n\tPKU avoid the substance, labels on cans of soda pop and other\n\taspartame-sweetened foods must carry the warning \"Phenylketonurics:\n\tContains Phenylalanine.\"\n", "\n In case you haven't noticed, Clintonites are pushing a universal health\n care ACCESS program. \"Access\" here means that folks who do not give \n a damn about immunizing their children will have health care services\n delivered to their doorsteps.\n\n\n-- \n------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDisclaimer: Opinions expressed are mine, not my employer's.", "DN> From: nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye)\nDN> A neurology\nDN> consultation is cheaper than a scan.\n\nAnd also better, because a neurologist can make a differential\ndiagnosis between migraine, tension-type headache, cluster, benign\nintracranial hypertension, chronic paroxysmal hemicrania, and other\nheadache syndromes that all appear normal on a scan. A neurologist\ncan also recommend a course of treatment that is appropriate to the\ndiagnosis.\n\nDN> >>Also, since many people are convinced they have brain tumors or other\nDN> >>serious pathology, it may be cheaper to just get a CT scan then have\nDN> >>them come into the ER every few weeks.\nDN> And easier than taking the time to reassure the patient, right?\nDN> Personally, I don't think this can ever be justified.\n\nSigh. It may never be justifiable, but I sometimes do it. Even\nafter I try to show thoroughness with a detailed history, neurologic\nexamination, and discussion with the patient about my diagnosis,\nsalted with lots of reassurance, patients still ask \"why can't you\norder a scan, so we can be absolutely sure?\" Aunt Millie often gets\ninto the conversation, as in \"they ignored Aunt Millie's headaches\nfor years\", and then she died of a brain tumor, aneurysm, or\nwhatever. If you can get away without ever ordering imaging for a\npatient with an obviously benign headache syndrome, I'd like to hear\nwhat your magic is.\n\nEvery once in a while I am able to bypass imaging by getting an EEG.\nMind you, I don't think EEG is terribly sensitive for brain tumor,\nbut the patient feels like \"something is being done\" (as if the\nhours I spent talking with and examining the patient were\n\"nothing\"), the EEG has no ionizing radiation, it's *much* cheaper\nthan CT or MRI, and the EEG brings in some money to my department.", "\nIf it were my wife, I would insist that a radiologist be involved in the\nprocess. Radiologist are intensively trained in the process of\ninterpreting diagnostic imaging data and are aware of many things that\nother physicians aren't aware of. Would you want a radiologist to\ndeliver your baby? If you wouldn't, then why would you want a OB/GYN to\nread your ultrasound study?\n\n\nIn my opinion the process should involve a OB/GYN and a radiologist.\n", "\nA(> Can anyone tell me if a bloodcount of 40 when diagnosed as hypoglycemic is\nA(> dangerous, i.e. indicates a possible pancreatic problem? One Dr. says no, the\nA(> other (not his specialty) says the first is negligent and that another blood\nA(> test should be done. Also, what is a good diet (what has worked) for a hypo-\nA(> glycemic? TIA.\nA(> \nA(> \nA(> Anthony Anello\nA(> Fermilab\nA(> Batavia, Illinois\n\n Once you have your hypoglycemia CONFIRMED through the proper \n channels, you might consider ther following:\n\n 1) Chelated Manganese 25-50mg/day.\n 2) Chelated Chromium 400-600mcg/day.\n 3) Increase protein through foods or supplements.\n 4) Avoid supplements/foods high in Potassium, Calcium, Zinc.\n 5) Avoid Vit C supplements in excess of 100mg.\n 6) Avoid honey and foods high in simple sugars.\n 7) Enjoy breads, cereals, grains...\n\n Discuss the above with your health practitioner for compatibility\n with your body chemistry and safety.\n\n --Ron--", "\nI no longer have the textbook, but abstinence was defined as something\nlike \"no contact between the penis and the vagina, vulva, or area \nimmediately surrounding the vulva, and no transfer of semen to the\nvagina, vulva, or area surrounding the vulva\". \n\nThat is, abstinence wasn't discussed as \"sex outside of marriage is\nmorally wrong\" but as keep the sperm away from the ovum and conception \nis impossible. The moral question I recall the teacher asking was,\n\"is it okay to create a child if you aren't able to be a good parent\nyet?\"\n\n-jen\n\n-- ", "\nYou may also want to buy a 'self injector' or something like that.\nMy friend is diabetic. You load the hyperdermic, put it in a plastic case\nand set a spring to automatically push the needle into the skin and depress\nthe plunger.\n\n\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\nLive From New York, It's SATURDAY NIGHT...", ":My wife's ob-gyn has an ultrasound machine in her office. When\n:the doctor couldn't hear a fetal heartbeat (13 weeks) she used\n:the ultrasound to see if everything was ok. (it was)\n:\n:On her next visit, my wife asked another doctor in the office if\n:they read the ultrasounds themselves or if they had a radiologist\n:read the pictures. The doctor very vehemently insisted that they\n:were qualified to read the ultrasound and radiologists were NOT!\n:\n:[stuff deleted]\n\nThis is one of those sticky areas of medicine where battles frequently\nrage. With respect to your OB, I suspect that she has been certified in\nultrasound diagnostics, and is thus allowed to use it and bill for its\nuse. Many cardiologists also use ultrasound (echocardiography), and are\nin fact considered by many to be the 'experts'. I am not sure where OBs\nstand in this regard, but I suspect that they are at least as good as the\nradioligists (flame-retardant suit ready).\n \n \n \n \n \n\n", "I had spacefood sticks just about every morning for breakfast in\nfirst and second grade (69-70, 70-71). They came in Chocolate,\nstrawberry, and peanut butter and were cylinders about 10cm long\nand 1cm in diameter wrapped in yellow space foil (well, it seemed\nlike space foil at the time). \n\nThe taste is hard to describe, although I remember it fondly. It was\nmost certainly more \"candy\" than say a modern \"Power Bar.\" Sort of\na toffee injected with vitamins. The chocolate Power Bar is a rough\napproximation of the taste. Strawberry sucked.\n\nMan, these were my \"60's.\"\n\n", "The article that follows was taken from the Wednesday, April 14,\n1993 issue of USA Today (\"Drug Use Up At Younger Age\" by Mike\nSnider, p. 1A).\n\n Drug use is on the rise among kids as young as eighth graders -\n usually 13 - and they're using more LSD and inhalants like glue\n and air fresheners, says a new survey.\n\n The annual National High School Senior Survey on Drug Abuse finds\n \"statistically significant increases\" in eighth-graders' use of\n many drugs, including marijuana, cocaine, crack, LSD and inhalants.\n\n \"We may be in danger of losing some ... hard-won ground (in reducing\n drug use) as a new, more naive generation of youngsters enters\n adolescence,\" says Lloyd Johnston, University of Michigan, chief\n researcher on the study sponsored by the Department of Health and\n Human Services.\n\n But drug use among high school seniors is continuing a decade-long\n decline.\n\n The study of 50,000 students shows the percentage who tried the\n following in the 30 days before they were polled:\n\n * 8th-graders - alcohol 26%; cigarettes 16%; marijuana 4%;\n cocaine 0.7%.\n\n * 10th-graders - alcohol 40%; cigarettes 22%; marijuana 8%;\n cocaine 0.7%.\n\n * 12th-graders - alcohol 51%; cigarettes 28%; marijuana 12%;\n cocaine 1.3%.\n\n Among 12th-graders, use of marijuana, cocaine and inhalants\n declined over the year before. Not so with LSD.\n\n * 2% of eighth-graders have tried LSD in the last year, up 24%\n over 1991. \n\n * Use of LSD among seniors is at its highest point since 1982; 6%\n tried it in the last year.\n\n Reducing drug use among students \"requires a different kind of\n strategy\" that Health Secretary Donna Shalala says will be part\n of an overall illness prevention plan.\n\n The survey shows drugs are easier to get and fewer eighth-graders\n disapprove of them.\n\n \"It's scary,\" Shalala says. \"Dealers are focusing on younger, more\n vulnerable kids.\"\n\n\nScott Kennedy, Brewer and Patriot", " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\n\tI just wanted to point out that some of the food, particularly\n\tthe soups, are prepared in a big batch, so the restaurant\n\twon't be able to take the MSG out of it. Sometimes its\n\tpretty hard to find out if this is the case or not.\n\n", "\n-- and --\n\n\nGood grief; has no one ever heard of Biostatistics?? The University of\nWashington (plus 3 or 4 others [Harvard, UNC]) has a department and\nadvanced degree program in Biostatistics. My wife has an MS Biostat, and\nthere are plenty of MDs, PhDs, and postdocs doing Biostatistical work.\nPeople do this for a living. Really bright people study for decades to do\nthis sort of study well.\n\nAnecedotal evidence is worthless. Even doctors who have been using a drug\nor treatment for years, and who swear it is effective, are often suprised\nat the results of clinical trials. Whether or not MSG causes describable,\nreportable, documentable symptoms should be pretty simple to discover. \n\nThe last study on which my wife worked employed 200 nurses, 100 doctors,\nand a dozen Ph.Ds at one University and at 70 hospitals in five nations. I\nwould think the MSG question could be settled by one lowly Biostat MS\nstudent in a thesis.", "day.\n\n\nRecently, I completed a 2 week juice fast (with 3 days of water) and had\ntwo colonics as part of it. My motivation was primarily spiritual, to\nde-toxify from all the crap I've been putting in my body (not like thats\nenough to clean it all out but it did have an effect). Personaly, I\ndidn't find it an uncomfortable experience (the colonic), lost about\n15lbs of beer belly (which hasn't come back over the last month), and\nfeel great. One of the things that prompted me to get the colonic was\nseeing my 90 year old grandmother chair ridden from colitis (?) from\nyears of indulgence.\n\nNot everything that goes in comes out, and personaly I don't mind giving\nmy body a hand once in a while.\n\nJust my experience,\n\nGeorge Paap", ":Thanks for all your assistance. I'll see if he can try a\n:different brand of patches, although he's tried two brands\n:already. Are there more than two?\n\nThe brands I can come up with off the top of my head are Nicotrol,\nNicoderm and Habitrol. There may be a fourth as well.\n\n", "\nUndoubtedly it does, to maintain such a weight. And it does so\nprimarily by overeating. If it didn't, the weight would drop\nback to normal.\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "\nSorry, but this is a red herring.\n\nAre you contending that the \"mountain of forms\" are processed by Blue\nCross? Having had Blue Cross insurance both as a government employee\nand as an employee of a private corporation, I saw no difference between\nthe two sets of forms. \n\nMoreover, the administrative costs associated with Medicare/Medicaid,\nthe two primary forms of \"government\" insurance are considerably lower than\nthe average for private insurance companies. (5% versus 14%-16%).\n\nIf you have any evidence that Blue Cross bears a heavier burden in insuring\ngovernment employees than private employees, post it. Otherwise, try\nto stick to factual assertions.\n\n\nWell now, that's an interesting defense of the \"free enterprise\" system.\nAre you contending that it is government intervention that prevents \nprivate insurance companies from \"standardizing?\"\n\nIn fact, it is true that some of the red-tape burden stems from the \nlack of standardization among the 1500 or so private insurers in the US,\nbut it's a little difficult to understand how this is anything other than\n\"free enterprise\" at work. \n\nBy the way, Barron's, the bible of Wall Street, this week admitted that\nadministrative costs were significantly lower in Canada because \"....a\nsingle-payer system is always cheaper...\". Guess even the \"free enterprise\nadvocates\" are beginning to see the light.\n\nSorry, but you seem to be confusing proposals with health care\nreform with the Bush administration's gag order on federally funded family\nplanning clinics. There are no proposals that would control what your\n\"doctor...can and cannot say about medical procedures.\"\n\nTry again.\n\njsh", "Claude, I've not heard or read anything that would suggest that vitamin A(\nretinol) could reverse hearing loss due to nerve damage(usually caused by \nhigh sound levels, but also occassionally due to severe infection). The \ntypes of cells that vitamin A regulates are the general epithelial cells \nand these cell types are not the ones that function in the ear hearing \nprocess. The hair cell nerve-like epithelial cells in the ear may respond \nto vitamin A during cellular differentiation(embryogenesis) but I don't \nknow if they are still capable of responding in adults. If they are \ncapable of responding with new hair growth, this would be a very major \nbreakthrough in hearing loss. With all of the medical interest in vitamin \nA, it would not be too surprising if a clinical study was done using \nvitamin A to reverse hearing loss. But with only a news announcement to go \non(and this type of communication is notoriously bad), I can't comment on \nyour question anymore than I already have. If one study has been done, \nmore will need to follow to firm up a link between vitamin A and hearing \nloss if there really is one.", "[reply to roxannen@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.u]\n \n \nI just got back from the American Academy of Neurology annual meeting,\nwhere the consensus was that sumatriptan (Imitrex) has no advantages\nover DHE-45 nasal spray, which is much less expensive, has fewer side\neffects, is as effective, and works more quickly (5-10 minutes vs. 30).\nBesides, who wants to give themselves a shot (sumatriptan) when a nasal\nspray works? DHE nasal spray is not widely available yet -- it has to\nbe mail ordered from one of a few pharmacies in the country -- but most\nneurologists now know about it and know how to order it.", "A student told me today that she has been diagnosed with kidney stones, a\ncyst on one kidney, and a kidney infection. She was upset because her\ncondition had been misdiagnosed since last fall, and she has been ill all\nthis time. During her most recent doctor's appointment at her parents'\nHMO clinic, she said that about FORTY! x-rays were made of her kidney.\nWhen she asked why so many x-rays were being made, she was told by a\ntechnician that they need to see the area from different views, but she\nsays that about five x-rays were made from EACH angle. She couldn't help\nfeeling that something must be wrong with the procedure or something. She\nis a pre-med student and feels she could have understood what was\nhappening if someone would have explained. When nobody would, she got\nworried.\n\tAlso, she is told that thre are 300! surgery patients ahead of her\nand that they cannot do surgery until August or so. It is now April...\nShe is supposed to rest a lot and drink fluids. But she has to go to\nclasses. She wonders why they have given her no medicine. She plans to\ncall back her doctor's office / clinic and try to get answers to these\nquestions. But I told her I would also write in to sci.med and see what I\ncould find out about why there were so many x-rays and whether it seems\no.k. to wait in line 3 or more months for surgery for something like this\nor whether she should be looking elsewhere for her care. She does plan to\nget a second opinion, too. \n\n\tI will pass info on to her. It never hurts to get information\nfrom more than one source. \n\nYou can e-mail me or post.\n\nThanks.", "How is it that placebos are legal? It would seem to me that if, as a patient,\nyou purchase a drug you've been prescribed and it's just sugar (or whatever),\nthere's a few legal complications that arise:\n\n\t1. \nIf you have been diagnosed with a condition and you aren't given accepted\ntreatment for it, it seems like intentional medical malpractice.\n\n\t2.\nA placebo should fall, legally, under the label of quackery (why not?)\n\n\t3.\nGetting what you pay for. (Deceptive \"bait and switch\" to an extreme...). False\nadvertising (what if McDonalds didn't put 100% pure beef in their hamburgers?)\n\n\n\tSo I'm mystified. Are these assumptions erred? If they aren't, why the\nhell can a doctor knowingly or unknowingly prescribe a placebo?", "\nThe principle underlying these devices is a well establish principle in\npsychology called 'entrainment,' whereby external sensory stimuli\ninfluence gross electrical patterns of brain function.\n\nThey are 'experimental' in that people experiment with them and they\nare _not_ widely (if at all) used in medicine for therapeutic purposes. \nGiven the exception of TENS and similar units used for external electrical \nstimulation, usually for pain relief, not really a light and sound machine.\n\nThey are _not_ experimental in the sense of a specific medical \ncategory to that effect, as with experimental drugs, as the FDA does not \nspecifically regulate medical devices in the way it does pharmaceuticals. \n\n\nThere are few reliable studies of therapeutic or enhancement effects\nfor mind machines, other than those relaxation-related effects found with \nmeditation or self-hypnosis as well. Reported benefits are mostly anecdotal and\nsubjective so far, so it's hard to generalize about their potential value.\n\nA pretty good general non-technical introduction to a wide variety\nof these devices may be found in \"Would the Buddha Wear a Walkman ?\"\nSome interesting background material, names of suppliers, and capsule reviews\nof specific equipment. \n\n\nA more important question might be whether they have enough additional\nvalue to be worth investing in. 'Biofeedback' was found to be a legitimate\nand reliable effect experimentally under certain conditions, (in that\nit demonstrated that we can influence physiological processes previously \nconsidered purely autonomic) but never panned out as a particularly valuable \ntherapeutic tool because of the skill level required and the subtlety and\ntemporary nature of the effects in most cases. Maybe someone else \nhas more, there used to be a whole mailing list devoted to mind machines,\nsomewhere on the net.\n\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\tkind regards,", ": [reply to ron.roth@rose.com (ron roth)]\n: \n: >While you're right that the S vertebrae are attached to each other,\n: >the sacrum, to my knowledge, *can* be adjusted either directly, or\n: >by applying pressure on the pubic bone...\n: \n: Ron, you're an endless source of misinformation! There ARE no sacral\n: vertebrae. There is a bone called the sacrum at the end of the spine.\n: It is a single, solid bone except in a few patients who have a\n: lumbarized S1 as a normal variant. How do you adjust a solid bone,\n: break it? No, don't tell me, I don't want to know.\n: \nOh come now, surely you know he only meant to measure the flow of\nelectromagnetic energy about the sacrum and then adjust these flows\nwith a crystal of chromium applied to the right great toe. Don't\nyou know anything?\n", "\nElevated levels of Glu and Asp in the blood are able to bypass the\nBlood-brain barrier through the circumventricular organs (or CVO), in\nparticular the adeno and neurohypophysis (pituitary gland) areas. The\narcuate nucleus of the hypothalamus, and the median eminence regions\nare particularly effected. CVO areas are not subject to the\nblood-brain barrier. These areas control the release of gonadotropin,\nwhich controls the release and flux of steroids governing development,\nespecially sexual development. Changes in adult rats, which are less\nsensitive to Glu than humans, have been observed: after ingesting Glu,\non a chronic basis, cycles of several steroids are disrupted. Blood\nlevels of somatostatin are significantly reduced, and cyclic release\nof steroids becomes flattened.", ": Actually I am entering vet school next year, but the question is \n: relevant for med students too.\n\n: Memorizing large amounts has never been my strong point academically.\n: Since this is a major portion of medical education -- anatomy, \n: histology, pathology, pharmacology, are for the most part mass \n: memorization -- I am a little concerned. As I am sure most \n: med students are.\n\n: Can anyone suggest techniques for this type of memorization? I \n: have had reasonable success with nemonics and memory tricks like\n: thinking up little stories to associate unrelated things. But I have\n: never applied them to large amounts of \"data\".\n\n: Has anyone had luck with any particular books, memory systems, or\n: cheap software? \n\n: Can you suggest any helpful organizational techniques? Being an\n: older student who returned to school this year, organization (another\n: one of my weak points) has been a major help to my success.\n\n: Please no griping about how all you have to do is \"learn\" the material\n: conceptually. I have no problem with that, it is one of my strong \n: points. But you can't get around the fact that much of medicine is\n: rote memorization. \n\n: Thanks for your help.\nThe only suggestion i can think of off the top of my head is get a large\nsupply of index cards and memorize small amounts of info at a time, making\nflash cards and quesitons. Everytime i get a question wrong I always\nmanage to get the damn thing right the next time \n", " ^^^^^^^^^^\n\nThe acetaminophen is the agent of concern in overdose of this\nOTC medication. A single dose of acetaminophen of 10 grams or greater\ncan cause hepatotoxicity, and doses of 25 grams or more are\npotentially fatal from hepatic necrosis. If I recall\ncorrectly, the metabolism of acetaminophen at high doses\ninvolves N-hydroxylation to N-acetyl-benzoquinoneimine, which\nis a highly reactive intermediate, which then reacts with\nsulfhydryl groups of proteins and glutathione. When hepatic\nglutathione is used up, this intermediate then starts\nattacking the hepatic proteins with resulting hepatic\nnecrosis. The insidious part of acetaminophen toxicity is the\ndelay (2-4 days) between ingestion and clinical signs of liver\ndamage. This is NOT a nice way to die.\n\nAs to taking 20-30 of these tablets, that comes to 5-7.5 grams\nof acetaminophen. In a normal adult, this would probably\ncause nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, and loss of appetite.", "\nyup. with onions, of all things.", "[reply to Daniel.Prince@f129.n102.z1.calcom.socal.com (Daniel Prince]\n \n \nYes.\n \n \nIt seems to work equally well for CFS, another hint that these may be\ndifferent facets of the same underlying process.\n \n \nYes. The benefit is usually evident within a few days of starting it.\nMost of the patients for whom it has worked well continued low-dose\namitriptyline, daily aerobic excersise, and a regular sleep schedule\n(current standard therapy). Because of the cost (usually > $150/mo.,\ndepending on dose) and potential for significant side effects like\ncorneal injury and birth defects, I currently reserve it for those who\nfail conventional treatment. It is important that the person\nprescribing it have some experience with it and follow the patient\nclosely.\n \n \nAs far as I know, I am the only person looking at it currently. I\nshould get off my duff and finish writing up some case reports. I'm not\nan academic physician, so I don't feel the pressure to publish or perish\nand I don't have the time during the work day for such things.", "\nNo, they do not work well. My doctor started using one recently, and I\nthought the concept was so amazing that I bought one too. \n\nThe thing works by reading the infrared emissions from the ear drum.\nThe ear drum is hotter than the ear canal walls, so you have to point\nthe thing very carefully. This means tugging on the top of the ear\nto straighten out the ear canal, then inserting the thing snugly, then\npushing a button. Unfortunately, there are many things that can go wrong.\nIt is almost impossible to aim the thing correctly when you do it on \nyourself. I get readings which differ from each other by up to 2 degrees,\nand may differ from an oral thermometer by up to 2 degrees. \n\nI talked to one of the nurses in my doctor's office recently about this,\nand she said she didn't like them either, for same reasons. She did give\nme some instruction on how to tug on my ear, and what correct insertion\nfeels like, but she said she thought it was impossible to do correctly\non one's self. She also said that she and other nurses had complained to\nthe company about inaccurate readings, and that someone from the company\nhad told them to take great care to clean the infrared window at the end\nof the probe with alcohol from time to time. She demonstrated this prior\nto reading my temperature, and managed to get a reading within 0.5 degree\nof the oral temperature I took at home before driving to the Dr's office.\n\nI have also noticed tha some nurses click the button, then remove the\nprobe immediately. This causes wrong readings. In my experience, you\nhave to leave the probe in a good 1 to 2 seconds after clicking the button\nto get a good measurement. The nurse I talked with agreed. I suspect\nthat many people don't realize this, and therefore get bad readings for\nyet another reason.", "I recently heard of some testing of a new migraine drug called sumatripton\n(I have no idea of the actual spelling) that supposedly utilizes a chemical\nthat trips neuro-transmitters. My mother has regular migraines and nothing\nseems to help - does anyone know anything about this new drug? Is it in\na testing phaze or anywhere near approval? Does it seem to be working?\n\nAny information would help.\n\nPlease feel free to e-mail rather than take up bandwidth if you prefer.\n\nThanks in advance,\n\n-Rox\n-- \nroxannen@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us\n", "\nAnd to add further fuel to the flame war, I read about 20 years ago that\nthe \"natural\" MSG - extracted from the sources you mention above - does not\ncause the reported aftereffects; it's only that nasty \"artificial\" MSG -\nextracted from coal tar or whatever - that causes Chinese Restaurant\nSyndrome. I find this pretty hard to believe; has anyone else heard it?", "\nOutbreaks of a chronic-mono-like entity were originally called EBS (or\nsome variant thereof) because most of the people with this disease had\nelevated levels of antibodies to the EBV virus. But not all of them\ndid, which prompted an official renaming of the disease to Chronic\nFatigue Syndrome (this renaming took place in the Annals of Internal\nMedicine, Jan. 1988, I believe). Now it's also called Chronic Fatigue\nand Immune Dysfunction Syndrome (CFIDS), since it seems clear that\nsome sort of immune disregulation is causing the probs.\n\nAstonishly, there are still docs who tell people with massively\nswollen glands, recurrent fevers and nightsweats, etc., that there's\nnothing wrong with them. This is not the same thing as saying that the\nsyndrome may have a (at least partly) psychological cause. The\ndisagreement among people whose thoughts are worth considering centers\non just what the cause is. No one knows, but theories include:\npsychological stress, some sort of virus (a retrovirus, say most --\nmaybe one of the newly discovered herpes viruses), environmental\ntoxins, bacteria (and, yes, candida), genes, (and/)or some combo of\nthese.\n\nThere's no outright cure at the moment, but different docs try\ndifferent things, some of which seem to help.\n\nMassive amounts of info on the condition are available these days.\nPost your Q to alt.med.cfs, and you will be flooded w/facts.", "\nAs I understood it, MSG *is* natural. Isn't it found in \ntomatoes?\n\nAnyway, lots of people are terribly allergic to lots of natural\nthings; peanuts, onions, tomatoes, milk, etc. Just because something\nis 'natural' doesn't mean it won't cause problems with some folks.\n\nAs for how foods taste: If I'm not allergic to MSG and I like\nthe taste of it, why shouldn't I use it? Saying I shouldn't use\nit is like saying I shouldn't eat spicy food because my neighbor\nhas an ulcer.\n\nPeople have long modified the taste of food by additives, whether\nthey be chiles, black pepper, salt, cream sauces, etc. All of these\nthings cloud the flavor of the food. Why do we bother with them?\nHow should food be tasted? Isn't it better left to the diner?", " \n\n[Note: This is a repost of my earlier response to Mr. Starr,\nwhich was not properly formatted. Apologies to those who've\nseen the following before:]\n\nTo explain my position on the \"War On Drugs,\" I offer this:\n\nDrugs And Crime: A New Approach\n\nby Ken Barnes\n\n\nGiven that:\n\n1. The trade in illegal drugs is responsible for \nmuch of the crime which afflicts our nation.\n\n2. People who want drugs (particularly people who \nare predisposed to addiction) will find a way to get \nthem, whether or not they are legally available.\n\n3. Despite current law enforcement efforts, drugs \nare readily available to those who want them.\n\n4. Addiction to drugs, both legal and illegal, is \nresponsible for a significant drain on the productive \nresources of our country, and this occurs in a variety \nof ways, from the cocaine-addicted babies who are \nunable to learn, to the spread of disease among \naddicts, to the tragic consequences of alcohol abuse \nand tobacco smoking.\n\n5. A general economic principle of government is \nthat whatever is subsidized you get more of, and \nwhatever is taxed you get less of. To be most \neffective in confronting the nation's drug problem, \nsome way must be found to utilize these additional \npowers of government to make drug dealing and drug use \nless attractive.\n\nWhile this country's current efforts to combat \nlegal drugs have succeeded in some respects, (there is \na greater awareness of the health consequences of \nsmoking, and designated-driver programs have helped \nreduce drunk driving, for example), the same cannot be \nsaid for the \"war\" on illegal drugs. There remains a \ncore group of illegal drug users which support \ninternational networks of smugglers, pushers, growers, \nprocessors, kingpins, and gangsters. These networks \nand their \"marketing activities,\" which include drive-\nby shootings, corrupting law enforcement authorities, \nand smuggling weapons, are directly or indirectly \nresponsible for a large proportion of the crimes \ncommitted in our country every day.\n\nClearly, illegal drugs and rising crime are \nlinked. It takes only a moment's reflection to \nrecognize how they are linked. The link is money. As \nwith this country's failed effort to prohibit alcohol \nconsumption, a black market has been created, in which \ngreedy local monopolies, like the gangsters of a \nbygone era, have profited enormously from their \nillegal trade. The victims of this trade include not \nonly the innocent people unfortunate enough to be \ncaught in the crossfire, but, I would argue, the drug \nusers themselves.\n\nWere it not for the black market, and the violent \nmonopoly of the drug lords, drug users might not be \nthe thieves, robbers, prostitutes and murderers they \nhave become in order to pay the high prices the drug \nlords demand. In the absence of the drug lords, most \nwould be, I believe, simply people with a problem, \neither a moral problem_or_a medical problem, but_not_a \ncriminal problem.\n\nLet me be clear however, I am_not_advocating that \nwe let the criminals who have been preying on our \nsociety for these many years of Prohibition off the \nhook. On the contrary, the new approach I advocate is \none which would not result in either the government or \nprivate industry getting into the business of \npromoting crack cocaine, or any other presently \nillegal drug for that matter. Neither is it an \napproach which sees law abiding citizens handing over \nmore and more of their freedom and privacy in an \neffort to track down illegal drug users, until \"the \nland of the free and the home of the brave\" looks like \na police state.\n\nHere then is my proposal:\n\n1. Possession and use of all presently illegal \ndrugs is decriminalized, but buying and selling them \nremains illegal. 'Potheads' can grow their own \nmarijuana (as many already do today), other drug users \ncan legally import their poison of choice as long as \nthey pay the tariffs, and a barter economy of drug \nexperimenters develops.\n\n2. Because of the barter economy which supplies \nthe drug users, the black market profits that have so \nenriched the drug lords dwindle. If these drugs can \nbe obtained for 'free' or next to nothing, why buy \nthem? Nevertheless, there will be those who will seek \nto sell these \"noncommercial\" drugs even at relatively \nlow prices. Therefore,\n\n3. Law enforcement activity is concentrated on \nthose individuals who continue to buy and sell, and \nalso on the crimes committed by drug users too poor to \nafford even low prices. But here is where the \nstrategy begins to differentiate between the drug \ndealers, the victimizers, and the drug users, their \nvictims.\n\n4. Upon arrest for_any_crime,_suspects are \npermitted to choose whether or not they will undergo a \ndrug test. Those who choose to cooperate are informed \nthat upon conviction for the crime they are accused \nof, if they are found to be a drug user, they will be \ninstitutionalized until they are clean, and only then \nwill they begin to serve their sentence. If they \nchoose to cooperate and are already drug-free, they \ncan begin to serve their sentence right away. Those \nwho choose not to undergo the drug test and are \nconvicted face stiffer fines and serve longer \nsentences.\n\n5. Institutionalization of drug using criminals \nserves several purposes:\n\nDrug using criminals (and this includes drunk \nand/or 'stoned' drivers) are separated from their \nsources of supply, thus reducing the total number of \ndrug users in society at large, and consequently \ndecreasing the demand for drugs on the street, putting \nmore of the remaining drug dealers out of business.\n\nInstitutionalization provides an incentive for \ndrug using criminals to straighten themselves out, \nbefore becoming part of the general prison population.\n\nWhile helping protect society from crime, \ninstitutionalization could also serve to deter drug \nusers from becoming criminals, since drug using \ncriminals, unlike other criminals, would be delayed \nprior to serving their sentences by the additional \ntime it takes for them to sober up.\n\nInstitutionalization of drug using criminals \nseparate from the general prison population would also \nprovide a closely monitored pool of addicts who could \nvolunteer for research studies of new techniques and \ntreatments for addictive disease, with the potential \nto benefit both themselves and others.\n\n6. Dealers in illegal drugs are generally not \ndrug users themselves, and this is particularly true \nof the drug bosses or kingpins running large illicit \norganizations. Under this proposal, dealers would be \nmore readily identifiable, since upon arrest they \nwould presumably pass the drug test, or else decline \nto take it in order to avoid having to explain why \nthey are in possession of drugs when it is apparent \nthey do not use them. Declining to take the test, \nthey would of course face stiffer penalties. While \neach case of attempted sale of a noncommercial drug \nwould have to stand on own its merits, the outcome of \na suspect's drug test could provide additional \nevidence for the prosecution.\n\n7. Just as cigarette taxes have contributed to \nthe decline of smoking in our country by making \ncigarettes more costly while at the same time \nproviding revenue for anti-smoking campaigns, \nnoncommercial drugs should be taxed, and the money \ngenerated should be used to combat their use. \nEnforcement of this tax should be on a voluntary basis \nhowever, and should not be used as an excuse to \ninfringe on the rights and privacy of noncommercial \ndrug users, since to do so would have the effect of \nreintroducing Prohibition.\n\nInstead, drug users will be encouraged to pay the \ntax by reminding them that if untaxed drugs are ever \nfound in their possession during the course of routine \npolice operations, they will be required to pay the \ntax immediately or else forfeit their untaxed drugs to \nbe destroyed. If drug dealers are found to be selling \nnoncommercial drugs on which taxes have not been paid, \nthey will face additional prosecution for evading the \ntax. The strategy of adding tax evasion to drug \ndealing charges is already in use in some \njurisdictions, but its effectiveness is currently \nlimited by the illegality of drug possession.\n\nRevenue from drug possession taxes and import \ntariffs would be used to fund anti-drug advertising \ncampaigns, and provide support to private sector drug \ntreatment programs for those unable to afford \ntreatment.\n\n8. Taxpayer subsidies to all drug producers must \nbe ended. Federal support of tobacco farming is both \nimmoral and wasteful in this era of tight budgets, and \nthe marijuana crops grown illicitly on federal lands \nin many states must likewise be eliminated.\n\nWhile my proposal would have the effect of \npermitting the use of what are now illegal drugs, it \nwould hold the users of all drugs responsible for \ntheir actions, and I believe, would reduce the harm \ndrugs have on our society, particularly the crime \ncaused by the illegal drug trade. So long as we \nremain a free nation, with relatively porous borders, \nand freedom for our citizens to travel, we will always \nhave a drug problem. Whether it takes the form of \nheroin addicts dying in abandoned buildings, drunk \ndrivers killing and maiming others on our streets, or \nemphysema patients struggling for breath after a \nlifetime of smoking, the results are the same: \nneedless suffering and death. As a society we must \nrecognize that while our society permits us to harm \nourselves with drugs, as we are already doing \n(regardless of the drug laws), we must take a stand \nagainst the harm that drugs and drug users cause to \nothers. We must particularly oppose the vicious and \nviolent cartels which prey on the weakness of drug \nusers. By taking the profits out of their deadly \ntrade, my proposal goes a long way towards shutting \ndown these powerful criminal organizations.\n\nThe question of whether drug use is a moral or \nmedical problem depends on which group of drug users \nyou're talking about. Different drugs have different \neffects, and some are more addictive than others. The \naddictiveness of a drug also often varies between \nindividuals, and so we have some people who can drink \nalcohol in moderation, while others find they cannot \nresist the bottle. Nicotine, which former Surgeon \nGeneral C. Everett Koop declared to be as addicting as \nheroin, is a legal drug with known harmful effects, \nand while some people can stop smoking by willpower \nalone, others continue to smoke even after treatment \nfor lung cancer.\n\nFor those individuals who can stop taking drugs \non their own, we may argue that because they have \nchosen to use them, this represents a moral failure on \ntheir part, or an unwillingness to face the \ndifficulties of life. But for the addicts, while they \nmay have chosen to use drugs the first time, by the \ntime they discover their addiction it is too late. We \ncannot hold them responsible for their disease, any \nmore than we would blame someone who is drowning for \nan inability to swim. Perhaps they should have known \nnot to go near the water, or perhaps someone should \nhave warned them of the danger, but in their present \ncircumstances warnings will not help. Neither does it \nhelp for the drug dealers on the shore to be tossing \nthem weights. \n", "\n\tWhat about his rectum?\n\n\n\n\n\n", "JL> From: jlecher@pbs.org\nJL> > I would not classify a mild headache that was continuous for weeks\nJL> > as migraine, even if the other typical features were there (e.g.,\nJL> > unilateral, nausea and vomiting, photophobia). Migraines are, by\nJL> > common agreement, episodic rather than constant.\nJL> >\nJL> Well, I'm glad that you aren't my doctor, then, or I'd still be suffering.\nJL> Remember, I was tested for any other cause, and there was nothing. I'm\nJL> otherwise very healthy.\nJL> The nagging pain has all of the qualifications: it's on one side, and\nJL> frequently included my entire right side: right arm, right leg, right eye,\nJL> even the right side of my tongue hurt or tingled. Noise hurt, light hurt,\nJL> thinking hurt. When it got bad, I would lose my ability to read.\n\nThe differential diagnosis between migraine and non-migranous pain\nis not *always* important, because some therapies are effective in\nboth (e.g., tricyclic antidepressants such as amitriptyline,\nnon-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs such as ibuprofen). Other\ntherapies may be more specific: beta-blockers such as propranolol\nwork better in migraine than tension-type headache.\n\nThe most important thing, from your perspective, is that you got\nrelief. Also, please understand that a diagnosis other than\nmigraine does not necessarily mean \"psychogenic\"; I suspect that\norganic factors play as large a role in tension-type headache as in\nmigraine.", ":>I think the scientists are biased towards the food industry or something.\n:>Was the article long? Would anyone be interested in posting it?\n:a neuroscientist told me that MSG is used as a neurotoxin...that's\n:right...some labs use it to \"kill\" neurons in mice and rats\n\nVitamin A (and I think vitamin D) in strong enough amounts can kill. The key\nwords are DOSAGE and EXPOSURE MECHANISM.\n", "Hi Stephen\nEar wax is a healthy way to help prevent ear infections, both by preventing\na barrier and also with some antibiotic properties. Too much can block the\nexternal auditory canal (the hole in the outside of the ear) and cause some \nhearing problems. It is very simple, and safe, to remove excess wax on your\nown, or at your physician's office. You can take a syringe (no needles!) and\nfill it with 50% warm water (cold can cause fainting) and 50% OTC hydrogen\nperoxide. Then point the ear towards the ceiling ( about 45 degrees up)\nand insert the tip of the syringe (helps to have someone else do this!) and \nfirmly expell the solution. Depending on the size of the syringe and the\ntenacity of the wax, this could take several rinses. If you place a bowl \nunder the ear to catch the water, it will be much drier :-). You can buy\na syringe with a special tip at your local pharmacy, or just use whatever\nyou may have. If wax is old, it will be harder, and darker. You can try\nadding a few drops of olive oil into the ear during a shower to soften up\nthe wax. Do this for a couple days, then try syringing again. It is also\nsafe to point your ear up at the shower head, and allow the water to rinse\nit out.\nGood Luck\n-heather\n", "[stuff deleted]\nI have a similiar question relating to anti-alaising that my friend has asked\nto have posted to the more knowledgable in this group. I'm sorry if this is\nan FAQ.\n\n \"What anti-alaising methods do Persistance Of Vision & Polyray use?\"\n\nThank you in advance. You can either email me or reply (or flame me if it is\nan FAQ :-) )", "\n\tMy blood pressure soars, my heart pounds, and I can't get to sleep\nfor the life of me... feels about like I just drank 8 cups of coffee.\n\n\tI avoid it, and beet sugar, flavor enhancers, beet powder, and\nwhatever other names it may go under. Basicaly I read the ingredients, and\nif I don't know what they all are, I don't buy the product.\n\n\tMSG sensitivity is definately *real*.\n\n\n\n-----------------------Relativity Schmelativity-----------------------------\n Richard H. Clark\t\t\t\tMy opinions are my own, and\n LUNATIK - watch for me on the road...\t\tought to be yours, but under\n It's not my fault... I voted PEROT!\t\tno circumstances are they\n richard@tis.com\t\t\t\tthose of my company...", "I had allergy shots for about four years starting as a sophomore in high\nschool. Before that, I used to get bloody noses, nighttime asthma attacks,\nand eyes so itchy I couldn't get to sleep. After about 6 months on the\nshots, most of those symptoms were gone, and they haven't come back. I\nstopped getting the shots (due more to laziness than planning) in college.\nMy allergies got a little worse after that, but are still nowhere near as\nbad as they used to be. So yes, the shots do work.\n", "These are MY last words on the subject\n\n\n\n\nSome people think it enhances the flavor. I personally don't think it\nhelps the taste, it makes me sick, so I try to avoid it.\n\n\n\nWell, I know that MSG effects ME adversely - maybe not permanently but\nat least temporarily enough that I like to try to avoid the stuff.\n\n\n\nEXCUSE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!\n\nWhy can't people learn to cook from scratch *ON* the net. I've gotten\nLOTS of recipes off the net that don't use additives.\n\nIf you LIKE additives then get off the net and go to your local\nsupermarket, buy lots of packaged foods, and YOU get OFF THE NET!!\n\n\nI don't!!\n\n\nHEY - I'll pay *MY* hard earned dollars to buy food that costs more\nbut does NOT have preservatives. I choose to speak with my pocketbook\nin many ways.\n\n\n\nNacho cheese Doritos, breading for MANY frozen fried foods (like fish\nand chicken), etc. ad naseum.\n\n\nOr the \"and other natural flavorings syndrome.\" It's been a few years\nsince I've bought anything labelled with \"and other natural\nflavorings\". \n\n\n\nWell, I had had similar reactions many times. That was when I really\nstarted WATCHING CAREFULLY - reaction to Doritos - hey guess what's in\nthere - reaction to Lawry's season salt - guess what's in THERE\n\nI'll give you a hint - I've had enough problems with MANY MANY MANY\ndifferent products with MSG that I figured out one thing.\n\nUNLESS I plan on getting sick - I won't eat the stuff without my\nSeldane. And did I ever learn to read labels.\n\n\nWhich was why I started checking EVERY time I got sick. And EVERY\ntime I got sick MSG was somehow involved in one of the food products.\nAnd consider there were no other similar ingredients (to my knowledge)\n- it might not please a medical researcher - but it pleased my own\npersonal physician enough for him to give me allergy medicine and MOST\nIMPORTANTLY it's enough proof for ME to avoid it (and enough proof\nthat my INCREDIBLY frugal fiance didn't flinch when I literally threw\nout or gave away all the food products in his pantry that had msg -\nand he always flinches when there's waste - but it was a simple\nexplanation - I won't eat this stuff, I WON'T cook with this stuff, so\nI can either throw it out or give it away.)\n\n\n\nProbably Lawry's seasoning salt. I LOVE the way that tastes. \n\nI'm not saying I NEVER consume ANYTHING with MSG. I've noticed that I\nhave a certain tolerance level - like a (small) bag of bbq chips once\na month or so it not a problem - but that same bag of chips will\nbother me if I also had chicken bouillon yesterday and lunch at one of\nthe Chinese restaurants the day before. \n\n\n\nBut - some say that only 2% of the population has a problem with MSG -\nsome say it's more like 20% - but let's say that it's 5%. How many\npeople would have to be tested that would have a problem? Also - I\nKNOW I have a problem with it, and I wouldn't VOLUNTEER for a test.\nLike thanks guys but I don't WANT to get sick. Also - I'm sure that\nmost people probably have varying degrees of sensitivities at\ndifferent times. If I have a cold I'm MUCH more susceptible to the\nreaction than when I'm healthy (as proven today - when I'm stuffy but\nfor some silly reason I still gave in and decided to have the BBQ\nchips ;}).\n\n\n\nCathy doesn't - I haven't saved all my postings but I NEVER called it\n\"chinese restaurant syndrome\" and I NEVER stated I got it only from\nChinese food. I just thought it would be easiest to conduct my\npersonal test at a Chinese take out place that I knew would hold (or\nnot hold) the MSG. I can't call up whoever makes Doritos and ask them\nto make me ONE back of chips without MSG.\n\n\nWell, I believe I mentioned that in an earlier post \n\nLet's see you wrote this message at\n\nDate: 20 Apr 1993 00:09:31 -0500\n\nbut on \n\nDate: 19 Apr 1993 16:33:18 GMT\n\n\n\n\nOH - and just in case anyone thinks I'm prejudice against either\nChinese food or Asian people - I'm not going home to cook some Chinese\nfood for the guy I'm marrying next week. Incidentally, his last name\nis Wu.\n\nSO STOP IT WITH THE FLAME MAIL\n\n--\nWhy does a woman work ten years to change a man's habits and then \ncomplain that he's not the man she married? \n -- Barbra Streisand", "\nI am told that Planned Parenthood/SIECUS-style \"values-free\" methods, that\nteach contraceptive technology and advise kids how to make \"choices\",\nactually _increase_ pregnancy rates. I posted a long article on this a while\nback and will be happy to email a copy to any who are interested. The\narticle included sources to contact for information on research verifying\nthese statements, and an outstanding source for info on acquiring\nabstinence-related curricula even in single-copy quantities for home use.\n\nThe same research produced the results that abstinence-related curricula\nwere found to _decrease_ pregnancy rates in teens. I assume that it is\nreasonable to assume that the AIDS rate will fluctuate with the pregnancy\nrate.\n\nThe difference is not in \"contraceptive technology\" but in the values taught\nto the children. The PP/SIECUS curricula taught the kids that they have\nlegitimate choices, while the abstinence related curricula taught them that\nthey did _not_ have _legitimate_ choices other than abstinence. It is the\nvalues system that is the strongest determinent of the behavior behavior of\nthese kids.\n\nDespite the better track record of abstinence-related curricula, they are\nsuppressed in favor of curricula that produce an effect contrary to that\ndesired. \n\nQuestion for further discussion (as they say in the textbooks): Why don't\nwe teach \"safe drug use\" to kids, instead of drug abstinence? Isn't it\nbecause we know that a class in \"how to use drugs safely if you _choose_ to\nuse drugs\" would increase drug use? Why isn't \"drug abstinence education\"\nbarred from schools because it teaches \"religion\"? Aren't we abandoning\nthose children who will use drugs anyway, and need instruction in their safe\nuse?\n\n", "\nYes, weightlessness does feel like falling. It may feel strange at first,\nbut the body does adjust. The feeling is not too different from that\nof sky diving.\n", "\nMaybe...then again did you get rid of that H/D of yorn and buy a rice rocket \nof your own? That would certainly explain the friendliness...unless you \nmaybe had a piece of toilet paper stuck on the bottom of your boot...8-).\n\nRich\n", "No, no, we aren't talking about receptors for the brain's sensory \ninnervation, but structures such as the thalamus that handle pain\nfor the entire organism. Apples and oranges.\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "\n\nUnless the patient has a very short life expectancy, the possible complications\nfrom a hernia that hasn't been repaired far outweigh the risks of surgery.\nThe risks of surgery, anyway, are minimal. Unless they are exceedingly large,\nhernias can be fixed under local anesthesia. \nDon't forget that hernias are one the leading causes of small bowel obstruction.\nAnd the smaller the hernia is, the higher the chances that a loop of bowel will\nbecome incarcerated or strangulated.\n\n\n===============================", "Hi,\n\tI'm an avid dieter and the new miracle drug seems to involve thermo-\ngenics. The drug is claimed to stimulate the brown fat to burn food \ncreating eat as opposed to the fat being stored. There are all sorts of\nwarnings about fevers, elevated blood pressure and heart rate, ect..\n\tThe silver lining is that apparently some weight loss does not \nrequire a change in diet. Is this possible? Are the pills dangerous or just\nhoaxes?", "In ,\n\tdated 29 Apr 93 15:43:10 GMT,\n\nI'll agree with your wife. While I was a student, I had doctors remove\nrather surprising amounts of wax from my ears by flushing them out a couple\ntimes, usually because they were examining my ears for some other reason, and\nsaid something like \"Gee, you've got a lot of wax in there\". In my case,\nremoval of these large wax buildups did noticeably improve my hearing, and\nI've since gotten in the same habit as your wife of flushing them out with\nwarm water from a little rubber bulb every few months. You can buy little\nbulbs together with ear drops for this express purpose from the drug store -\nI don't notice that the drops accomplish much of anything.", ":In article \n:>Can anyone out there tell me the difference between a \"persistent\" disease\n:>and a \"chronic\" one? For example, persistent hepatitis vs chronic\n:>hepatitis.\n:\n:I don't think there is a general distinction. Rather, there are\n:two classes of chronic hepatitis: chronic active hepatitis and chronic\n:persistent hepatitis. I can't think of any other disease where the\n:term persistent is used with or in preference to chronic.\n:\n:Much as these two terms \"chronic active\" and \"chronic persistent\"\n:sound fuzzy, the actual distinction between the two conditions\n:is often fairly fuzzy as well.\n\nI beg to differ. Chronic *active* hepatitis implies that the disease\nremains active, and generally leads to liver failure. At the very\nminimum, the patient has persistently elevated liver enzymes (what some\ncall \"transaminitis\"). Chronic *persistant* hepatitis simply means that\nthe patient has HbSag in his/her blood and can transmit the infection, but\nshows no evidence of progressive disease. If I had to choose, I'd much\nrather have the persistant type.\n", "My comments about the Feingold Diet have no relevance to your\ndaughter's purported FrostedFlakes-related seizures. I can't imagine\nwhy you included it.\n", "=\n=> Now here is a new one: vomiting. My guess is that MSG becomes the number one\n=> suspect of any problem. In this case. it might be just food poisoning. But\n=> if you heard things about MSG, you may think it must be it.\n=\n=----------\n=\n=Yeah, it might, if you only read the part you quoted. You somehow left \n=out the part about \"we all ate the same thing.\" Changes things a bit, eh?\n\nPerhaps. Now, just what leads you to believe that it was MSG and not some\nother ingredient in the food that made you ill?\n\n=These people aren't condemning Chinese food, Mr. Chen - just one of its \n=(optional) ingredients. Try not to take it so personally.\n\nAnd you're condemning one particular ingredient without any evidence that\nthat's the ingredient to which you reacted.\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nCarl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL", "If you have any information on artificial intelligence in medicine, then I\nwould appreciate it if you could mail me with whatever it is. The informations\nis needed for a project.\n\nThank you, Ian.", ": I've seen people in their forties and fifties become disoriented and\n: demented during hospital stays. In the examples I've seen, drugs were\n: definitely involved. \n\n: My own father turned into a vegetable for a short time while in the\n: hospital. He was fifty-three at the time, and he was on 21 separate\n: medications. The family protested, but the doctors were adamant, telling\n: us that none of the drugs interact. They even took the attitude that, if\n: he was disoriented, they should put him on something else as well! With\n: the help of an MD friend of the family, we had all his medication\n: discontinued. He had a seizure that night, and was put back on one drug.\n: Two days later, he was his old self again. I guess there aren't many\n: medical texts that address the subject of 21-way interactions.\n\nI saw the same thing happen to my father, and I can more or less validate your\ntake on hospitals. It seems to me that medical science understands precious\nlittle about taking care of the human machine. Drugs are given as a\nresponse to symptoms (and I guess that makes sense since all the studies that \nvalidate the effectiveness of those drugs are based on a narrow\nassessment of the degree of particular symptoms). But there seems\nto be very little appreciation for the well-being of a person\noutside of the numbers that appear on a test. I watched my dad\nwither away and lose huge amounts of body fat and muscles tissue\nwhile in the hospital. There is something a little crazy about a\nsystem in which there is more attention paid to giving you every\nlatest drug available than there is attention paid to whether you\nhave had enough to eat to prevent loss of muscle tissue. It is\nreally, really bizarre. \n", "I remember as a kid visiting my relatives on Kauai, and one of the things\nthat really frightened me was centipedes. I'd been told they were poisonous\nand infrequently one would pop up and scare the heck out of me. Once\none came out of the vacuum cleaner and it seemed like it was at least a foot\nlong and moving at 35 miles an hour!\n", "\n\nI just found out about the sublinguals disappearing too. I don't\nknow why. Perhaps because they weren't as profitable as cafergot.\nToo bad, since tablets are sometimes vomited up by migraine patients\nand they don't do any good flushed down the toilet. I suspect\nwe'll be moving those patients more and more to the DHE nasal\nspray, which is far more effective.\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "My wife's ob-gyn has an ultrasound machine in her office. When\nthe doctor couldn't hear a fetal heartbeat (13 weeks) she used\nthe ultrasound to see if everything was ok. (it was)\n\nOn her next visit, my wife asked another doctor in the office if\nthey read the ultrasounds themselves or if they had a radiologist\nread the pictures. The doctor very vehemently insisted that they\nwere qualified to read the ultrasound and radiologists were NOT!\n\nMy wife is concerned about this. She saw a TV show a couple months\nback (something like 20/20 or Dateline NBC, etc.) where an expert\non fetal ultrasounds (a radiologist) was showing all the different\ndeffects that could be detected using the ultrasound.\n\nShould my wife be concerned? Should we take the pictures to a \nradiologist for a second opinion? (and if so, where would we find\nsuch an expert in Chicago?) We don't really have any special medical\nreason to be concerned, but if a radiologist will be able to see\nthings the ob-gyn can't, then I don't see why we shouldn't use one.\n\nAny thoughts?\n\n", "\nIn order to excitotoxin effects of MSG, MSG that in blood must go through \nblood-brain barrier that I am not sure MSG can go through or not. In normal condition, the concentration of glutamate in the cerebrospinal fluid is about \n2 uM that is high enough to activate one type of glutamate receptor-the NMDA\nreceptor. But the question is Neuron and glial cell in the brain have a lots of transport to get glutamate into Neuron or glial. So no one know exact concentration of glutamate is around neurons. ", "[reply to ron.roth@rose.com (ron roth)]\n \n \nRon, you're an endless source of misinformation! There ARE no sacral\nvertebrae. There is a bone called the sacrum at the end of the spine.\nIt is a single, solid bone except in a few patients who have a\nlumbarized S1 as a normal variant. How do you adjust a solid bone,\nbreak it? No, don't tell me, I don't want to know.", "\nCandida can do that to you. :-) Gordon, I think that the best clinical \ntrial for candida blooms would involve giving women with chronic vaginal \ncandida blooms L. Acidophilus orally and see it it can decrease the \nfrequency and extent of candida blooms in the vagina since most of the \ncandida seems to be migrating in from the anal region and L. acidophilus \nshould be able keep the candida in check if it can make it through the \nintestinal tract and colonize in the anus where it will have access to \noxygen(just like it does in the vagina). As much stuff as there is in the \nlay press about L. acidophilus and vaginal yeast infections, I'm really \namazed that someone has not done a clinical trial yet to check it out.\n\n\nThe calcium and kidney stone story is not a good reason to throw all \nconventional wisdom out the window. Where would medicine be if \nconventional wisdom had not been used to develop many of the standard \nmedical practices that could not be confirmed through clinical trials?\nThe clinical trial is a very new arrival on the medical scene(and a very \nimportant one). The lack of proof that reinnoculation with good bacteria \nafter antibiotic use is important to the health of a patient is no reason \nto dismiss it out-of-hand, especially if reinnoculation can be done cleaply \nand safely(like it is in animal husbandry).", "\nThis is also commonly seen in new teachers. The first few years, they're\nsick a lot, but gradually seem to build up immunities to almost everything\ncommon. Come to think of it, I was about my healthiest when I was\nworking in a pathogens lab, exposed to who-knows-what all the time. Pre-OSHA,\nof course.", "Last year, I was totally surprised when my annual physical disclosed an\ninguinal hernia. I couldn't remember doing anything that would have\ncaused it. That is, I hadn't been lifting more than other people do,\nand in fact probably somewhat less. Eventually the thing became more\npainful and I had the repair operation.\n\nThis year I developed a pain on the other side. This turned out to be\nanother inguinal hernia. So I go back to the hospital Monday for\nanother fun 8-) operation.\n\nI don't know of anything I'm doing to cause this to happen. I'm 38\nyears old and I don't think I'm old enough for things to start falling\napart like this. The surgeon who is doing the operation seems to\nsuspect a congenital weakness, but if so, why did it suddenly appear\nwhen I was 37 and not really as active as I was when I was younger?\n\nDoes anyone know how to prevent a hernia, other than not lifting\nanything? It's rare that I lift more than my 16-month-old or a sack\nfull of groceries, and you may have noticed that your typical grocery\nsack is fairly small these days. Is there some sort of exercise that\nwill reduce the risk?\n\nOf course, my wife thinks it's from sitting for long periods of time at\nthe computer, reading news...", "Having been gone for 10 days, I'm way behind on my News reading, so many\npardons if I am repeating something that has been said already.\n\nI read a good book while I was away, THE ANTIBIOTIC PARADOX: HOW MIRACLE DRUGS\nARE DESTROYING THE MIRACLE, Stuart B. Levy, M.D., 1992, Plenum Press,\nISBN:0-306-44331-7.\n\nIt is about drug resistant microorganisms & the history of antibiotics. It\nis interesting & written at a level which I think many sci.med readers would\nappreciate -- which is: it assumes an intelligent reader who is capable of\nunderstanding scientific concepts, but who may not yet have been exposed to\nthis particular information. I.e., it assumes you are smart enough to\nunderstand it, but it does not assume that you already have a degree in\nmicrobiology or medicine. Table of contents:\n\nChapter 1\n\tFrom Tragedy the Antibiotic Age is Born\nChapter 2\n\tThe Disease and the Cure: The Microscopic World of Bacteria and\n\tAntibiotics\nChapter 3\n\tReliance on Medicine and Self-Medication: The Seeds of Antibiotic\n\tMisuse\nChapter 4\n\tAntibiotic Resistance: Microbial Adaptation and Evolution\nChapter 5\n\tThe Antibiotic Myth\nChapter 6\n\tAntibiotics, Animals and the Resistance Gene Pool\nChapter 7\n\tFurther Ecological Considerations: Antibiotic Use in Agriculture,\n\tAquaculture, Pets, and Minor Animal Species\nChapter 8\n\tFuture Prospects: New Advances Against Potential Disaster\nChapter 9\n\tThe Individual and Antibiotic Resistance\nChapter 10\n\tAntibiotic Resistance: A Societal Issue at Local, National, and\n\tInternational Levels.\n\nIncludes bibliography and index.\n\nI personally found that it made very good Airplane-Reading.\n-rg\n", "How about going to a doctor to get some minor surgery done. Doctor\nrefuses to do it because it's ``to risky'' (still charges me $50!).\nI go home and do it myself. No problem.\n\nThe ``surgery'' involved digging out a pine needle that had buried\nitself under my tongue.", "My wife has become interested through an acquaintance in Post-Polio Syndrome\nThis apparently is not recognised in New Zealand and different symptons ( eg\nchest complaints) are treated separately. Does anone have any information on\nit\n\nThanks\n", "My husband woke up three days ago with a small sore spot\n(a spot about the size of a nickel) on one of his testicles. Bottom side,\nno knots or lumps, just a little sore spot. He says it reminds him of \nhow a bruise feels. He has no recollection of hitting it or anything like\nthat that would cause a bruise. (He asssures me he'd remember something\nlike that :-) \n\nAny clues as to what it might be? He's somewhat of a hypochondriac (sp?)\nso he's sure he's gonna die. . .\n\nThanks!!\n", ":Does anybody know of any information regarding the implementaion of total\n: quality management, quality control, quality assurance in the delivery of\n: health care service. I would appreciate any information. If there is enough\n:interest, I will post the responses.\n\n\nThis is in fact a hot topic in medicine these days, and much of the\nmedical literature is devoted to this. The most heavily funded studies\nthese days are for outcome research, and physicians (and others!) are\nconstantly questionning whether what we do it truly effective in any given\nsituation. QA activities are a routine part of every hospital's\nadministrative function and are required by accreditation agencies. There\nare even entire publications devoted to QA issues.\n", "We will be holding a bake and craft sale at Communiversity in Princeton on \nNassau Street, Saturday April 24th 12-4 p.m. to benefit the Recurrent \nRespiratory Papillomatosis Foundation, a nonprofit foundation established to \nencourage research toward a cure for Recurrent Respiratory Papillomatosis. Our \nthree year old daughter suffers from this disease. Below is a press release \nthat appeared in local newspapers. Hope you can join us.\n\n\nOn Saturday, April 24 as part of Communiversity in Princeton, a local family \nwill be having a bake and craft sale to raise money for and create public \nawareness about a rare disease called Recurrent Respiratory Papillomatosis.\n\nBill and Marlene Stern's daughter Lindsay is afflicted with this disease \ncharacterized by tumors attacking the inside of the larynx, vocal cords and \ntrachea. Caused by a virus, the tumors grow, block the air passages and would \nlead to death from suffocation without continual surgery to remove the growths. \nThree year old Lindsay has undergone 11 operations thus far since her diagnosis \nlast year and faces the prospect of over a hundred operations throughout her \nlifetime. \n\nEven though the disease is hardly a household word, it has affected the lives \nof enough people to inspire the formation of the Recurrent Respiratory \nPapillomatosis Foundation, a non-profit foundation whose goals are to provide \nsupport for patients and families by networking patients and publishing a \nnewsletter, enhance awareness of RRP at the local and national level, and aid \nin the prevention, cure, and treatment.\n\nSince medical researchers know that the virus causing the disease is similar to \nthose viruses causing warts, they feel a cure would be within reach if money \nwere available for research. Because RRP is rare, it not only gets scant \nattention but also paltry funds to search for a cure. Part of the RRP \nFoundation's mission is to change that. \n\nAnyone interested in contributing items to the bake and craft sale, please call \nMarlene or Bill at 609-890-0502. Monetary donations can be made at the \nFoundation's booth during Communiversity, April 24th, 12 to 4 p.m., in downtown \nPrinceton, or sent directly to:", "\n\nNot that new. 20 years ago, we had drug addicts harboring active TB\nthat was resistant to everything (in Chicago). The difference now\nis that such strains have become virulent. In the old days, such\nTB was weak. It didn't spread to other people very easily and just\ninfected the one person in whom it developed (because of non-compliance\nwith medications). Non-compliance and development of resistant strains\nhas been a problem for a very long time. That is why we have like 9\ndrugs against TB. There is always a need to develop new ones due to\nsuch strains. Now, however, with a virulent resistant strain, we\nare in more trouble, and measures to assure compliance may be necessary\neven if they entail force.\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "Hello to everybody,\nI write here because I am kind of desperate. For about six weeks, I've been\nsuffering on pains in my left head side, the left leg and sometimes the left \narm. I made many tests (e.g. computer tomography, negative, lyme borreliosis,\nnegative, all electrolytes in the blood in their correct range), they're\nall o.K., so I should be healthy. As a matter of fact, I am not feeling so.\nI was also at a Neurologist's too, he considered me healthy too.\n\nThe blood tests have shown that I have little too much of Hemoglobin (17.5,\ncommon range is 14 to 17, I unfortunately do not know about the units).\nCould these hemi-sided pains be the result of this or of a also possible\nblock of the neck muscles ?\n\nI have no fever, and I am not feeling entirely sick, but neither entirely \nhealthy. \n\nPlease answer by direct email on \n\nThanks for every hint", "mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Mark Wilson) writes,\n(missing the entire point of my post):\n\n\nNo joke.\n\n\nNo,_you_jumped to_that_conclusion. It's actually an argument as\nto how to accomplish the societal good of discouraging drug use\nwithout violating individual rights.\n\n\nNo. _You_missed the point. The point is, the \"War On Drugs\"\nis a failure, and is counterproductive.\n\n\nBut, they are not free to be stupid and injure other people.\nAdmittedly, the fetal right-to-life is outside the scope of\nthis discussion. However, it's ridiculous to assert, as you\napparently do, that cocaine has_no effect_on the developing\nfetal nervous system. Caffiene and nicotine have fetal effects\ntoo, why should cocaine be any exception?\n\n\nIf you had read my article before writing your knee-jerk response\nyou would have seen that this is exactly what I advocated.\n\n\nNo shit, Sherlock.\n\n[...]\n\nThank you. How could you have missed the point so utterly?\nWhat_have_you been smoking?\n\n\nObviously, importers will not be buying drugs in the U.S., under\nU.S. jurisdiction. Use your remaining brain cells.\n\n\nO.K., I'll spell it out for you. \"Barter economy\" means that\ndrug users will be permitted to grow or synthesize chemically\nanything they choose, or to buy it outside the U.S. and bring\nit in, if it won't grow here. They will also be permitted to\ntrade with other drug users for drugs other than the ones they\nthemselves grow or manufacture. They will not, however be able\nto legally sell their drugs for money. Both manufacture and\nimportation of noncommercial drugs will be taxed, to discourage\ntheir use. \"This is your brain on drugs. Any questions?\"\n\n\nPardon me, but possession/use of these drugs is still a crime!\nYou cannot analogize the rates at which drug users would seek\ntreatment, and the comparative ease with which it could be\nmade available today, when these drugs are illegal to possess/use,\nwith what it would be were they_not_illegal to possess/use.\nDecriminalizing possession and use makes treatment_much_easier.\nDrug dealers are exploiting the weaknesses of those persons who\nare prone to addiction, and as such, the drug users should be\nleft alone, not thrown in prison along with their victimizers.\nDrug_dealers_are the criminals, and should be treated as such.\nDrug addiction does not absolve you of responsiblity for your\ncriminal actions, however.\n\n\nThe drug test of an arrested suspect is voluntary, not coerced,\nand does not therefore constitute violation of Amendment V.\nThose convicted who are drug users, as evidenced by the test,\nare in need of treatment for their problem. Institutionalization\nof these adddicted criminals is, I would argue, the best way to\nhelp them straighten out. If they refuse the test and are convicted,\ntheir sentence can be appropriately harsher, since they, unlike the\naddict, have no \"excuse\" for their crimes.\n\n\nWhy not? My objective is to discourage drug use_and_criminal\nbehavior. If fewer criminals do drugs out of fear of getting a\nharsher sentence if they are convicted, why is that not a good\nthing? If fewer drug dealers (who are still criminals, BTW)\ncan find victims, why is that not a good thing? If fewer drug\nusers, such as drunks, 'potheads,' etc., commit crimes out of\nfear of being cut off from their sources of supply, why is that\nnot a good thing?\n\nI'm certainly willing to debate my position.\nYou have to read it carefully though.", "\n\n\nI recall that the issue is that fat on the meat liquifies and then\ndrips down onto the hot elements--whatever they are--that the extreme\nheat then catalyzes something in the fat into one or more\ncarcinogens which then are carried back up onto the meat in the smoke.", "I have heard that epileptic patients go into seizures if they\neat anything with MSG added. This may have something to do with\nthe excitotoxicity of neurons.", "\n\tHarumph. Getting published in these newsletters is hardly something\nto aspire to. :-)\n\tI can't really argue with your logic, though I think you may be\nextrapolating a bit recklessly from what appears to be a sample size of\none. Even if what you say about this local Pittsburgh guy is true, it is\nnot logical or fair to conclude that this is true of all doctors who\ntreat Lyme disease.\n\tBy your logic, I could conclude that all of the physicians who\nconsult for insurance companies and make money by denying benefits to\nLyme patients are doing it for the money, rather than because they believe\nthey are encouraging good medicine. I have no idea how sincere these guys\nare, but their motives are as suspect as the physicians you excoriate for\nwhat you believe to be indiscriminate treatment.\n\tI would really feel more comfortable discussing the medical issues\nin Lyme, rather than speculating as to the motives of the various parties\ninvolved.\n", "What is the healthiest way to deal with earwax? Should one just leave\nit in your ear and not mess with it, or should you clean it out\nevery so often? Can cleaning it out damage your eardrums?\nAre there any tubes in your ear that might get blocked?", "Hi all,\n\nMy skin is very dry in general. But the most serious part is located\nfrom knees down. The skin there looks like segmented. The segmentation\nactually happens beneath the skin. I would like to know if there is any\ncure for this.\n\nAt the supermarkets or pharmacies, there are quite a lot of stuffs for\ndry skins, but what to chose?\n\nThanks in advance for all advices and hints.\n\nReply by email preferred.", "All right, listen up.... What are the possibilities of transmission through\nswimming pool water? Especially if the chlorination isn't up to par?", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nFor one week, she probably wants to see how you react to the diet. If it\nchanges anything. \n\nYou can live on the diet but you need to up your calories. Where before you\nhad a pat of butter now you need a medium apple (probably microwave\ncooked). Smaller meals but more of them. Not terrific amounts of meat, it's\nhard to digest anyway. \n\nFor comfort and to make the carbohydrate meal \"last\" longer eat pasta or\nrice which give their calories up slowly rather than bread or corn. Maybe\nsmaller meals as you may be getting less room in the stomach area. Is the\nbaby still coming up. Is it starting to push or rub under your ribs? How\ntight are your clothes. You shouldn't be wearing any clothing that compresses \nyour middle. Be sure not to \"suck in\" your stomach when sitting, again it\nwill put pressure on the digestive tract. \n\nTry laying on your sides, back,\nand stay in reclining positions for the many hours you are being inactive.\nEasier on your legs (circulation) as well. You might try letting the baby\n\"turn\" or at least not be forced under the ribs during the last months.\nWhen you are shortwaisted it's easy for that baby to end up right under the\ndiaphram, especially if you have tight abdominal muscles. If I had my\nsecond one to do over again I think I'd have tried to loosen up since he\ndidn't turn sideways until late and the relief was enormous.\n\n\nMaybe this doctor does have a thing about weight gain in pregnancy or maybe\nshe just nags all her patients this way. Especially if she's young. \nBut this gallbladder/whatever problem that might be coming up is something\nto be avoided if possible. \n\nNausea, etc. can vary from person to person and with each pregnancy. My\nfirst pregnancy was miserable. During the second I had very little trouble.\nSome articles have said that women with nausea had a statistically better\nchance of carrying their baby. (grain of salt here) \n\nGood luck", "\nIt also gave me lots of problems with joint and muscle pain. Seemed to\ntrigger arthritis-like problems.\n\nSue", "-*-----\n\nThese effects are a very real concern in conducting studies of new\ntreatments. Researchers try to limit this kind of effect by \nperforming studies that are \"blind\" in various ways. Some of these\nare:\n\n o The subjects of the study do not know whether they receive a \n placebo or the test treatment, i.e., whether they are in the\n control group or the test group.\n\n o Those administering the treatment do not know which subjects \n receive a placebo or the test treatment.\n\n o Those evaluating individual results do not know which subjects\n receive a placebo or the test treatment.\n\nObviously, at the point at which the data is analyzed, one has to \ndifferentiate the test group from the control group. But the analysis\nis quasi-public: the researcher describes it and presents the data on\nwhich it is based so that others can verify it. \n\nIt is worth noting that in biological studies where the subjects are\nanimals, such as mice, there were many cases of skewed results because\nthose who performed the study did not \"blind\" themselves. It is not\nconsidered so important to make mice more ignorant than they already\nare, though it is important that in all respects except the one tested,\nthe control and test groups are treated alike.", "I'm a nursing student, and I would like to respond to #66966 on haldol\nand the elderly.\nMessage-ID: <25APR199316225142@fsphy1.physics.fsu.edu>\nOrganization: Florida State University - School of Higher Thought\nNews-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1 \n\nFirst, I'm sorry to hear that you have had to see your grandmother go\nthrough this. I know it has to have been tough.\n\nThere are many things that can cause long term confusion in elderly\nadults. The change in environment can cause problems. Anesthetic agents\ncan cause confusion because the body cannot clear the medicines out of\nthe body as easily. In addition, medications and interactions between\nmedications can cause confusion.\n\nAs far as whether or not haldol can have long lasting effects even after\nthe drug has been discontinued, I do not know. I have not _seen_ anything\nto that effect. However, I also had not been looking for that information.\nI can see what I can find...\n\nI can tell you that haldol is an antipsychotic drug, and, according to\nthe Nursing93 Drug handbook, it is \"Especially useful for agitation\nassociated with senile dementia\" (p. 400). It also should not be \ndiscontinued abruptly. It did not say anything about long lasting\neffects.\n\nBecause so many things can cause confusion, it is hard for me to know\nwhat else was going on at the time; if I had more history, i might be able\nto answer you better. If you want to send me e-mail with more information,\nI would be happy to try to help you piece together what might have\nhappened.", "Ihave had a frozen shoulder for over a year or about a year. It is still\npartially frozen, and I am still in physical therapy every week. But the\npain has subsided almost completely. UNTIL last week when I mowed the\nlawn for twenty minutes each, two days in a row. I have a push type power\nmower. The pain started back up a little bit for the first time in quite\na while, and I used ice and medicine again. Can anybody explain why this\nparticular activity, which does not seem to stress me very much generally,\nshould cause this shoulder problem?\n\nThanks.", "I got this recipe from a watier on the greek island of samos.\nThey use it as a spread for bread there butit is excellent on\ngyro's as well. By the way, the actual name is tzatziki.\nHere is the recipe:\n\nyoghurt, chopped garlic, peeled chopped cucumber, salt, white\npepper, a little olive oil and a little vinegar.\n\nI would love to hear of any other good greek recipes out there.\n", "Could some please refer me to someone who can perform PRK (Photo Refractive \nKeratostomy) in Canada (preferably eastern portion). I've looked in\nthe yellow pages with little success, and if someone has had a good (or\nbad, for that matter) experience, that would be especially helpful if you\ncould please let me know.", "T(> Russell Turpin responds to article by Ron Roth:\nT(>\nT(> R> ... I don't doubt that the placebo effect is alive and well with\nT(> R> EVERY medical modality - estimated by some to be around 20+%,\nT(> R> but why would it be higher with alternative versus conventional \nT(> R> medicine?\"\nT(> \nT(> How do you know that it is? If you could show this by careful \nT(> measurement, I suspect you would have a paper worthy of publication\nT(> in a variety of medical journals. \nT(> \nT(> Russell \n\n If you notice the question mark at the end of the sentence, I was\n addressing that very question to that person (who has a dog named\n sugar) and a few other people who seem to be of the same opinion.\n\n I would love to have anyone come up with a study to support their\n claims that the placebo effect is more prevalent with alternative\n compared to conventional medicine.\n Perhaps the study could also include how patients respond if they\n are dissatisfied with a conventional versus an alternative doctor,\n i.e. which practitioner is more likely to get punched in the face\n when the success of the treatment doesn't meet the expectations of \n the patient!\n\n --Ron-- ", "\n\n\nWhere are your references? I have been unable to find studies that state\nthat chromium \"cures diabetese\". It can reduce the amount of insulin you\nhave to take. \"High blood pressure\" - I have never heard of this claim\nbefore. \"... anabolic steroids\" - I have also never heard of this claim\nbefore. Sounds like you are making things up and stretching the truth\nfor God knows what reason. Did somebody piss you off at one time?\n\n\n\n\n\n\nI agree with you that chromium picolinate by itself isn't likely\nto make a fat person thin. But it can be the decisive component\nof an overall strategy for long-term weight control and make an\nimportant contribution to good health. It is important to\nexercise (11, 12) and also avoid fat calories (9, 10).\n\nChromium picolinate has shown to reduce fat and increase\nlean muscle (1, 2, 3). I will not bore you with the\nstatistics. You wouldn't believe these anyway.\n\nChromium Picolinate is an exceptionally bioactive source of\nthe essential mineral chromium. Chromium plays a vital role\nin \"sensitizing\" the body's tissues to the hormone insulin.\nWeight gain in the form of fat tends to impair sensitivity\nto insulin and thus, in turn, makes it harder to lose\nweight (4).\n\nInsulin directly stimulates protein synthesis and retards\nprotein breakdown in muscles (5, 6). This \"protein sparing\"\neffect of insulin tends to decline during low calorie diets\nas insulin levels decline, which results in loss of muscle\nand organ tissue. By \"sensitizing\" muscle to insulin,\nchromium picolinate helps to preserve muscle in dieters\nso that they \"burn\" more fat and less muscle. Preservation\nof lean body mass has an important long-term positive\neffect on metabolic rate, helping dieters keep off the\nfat they've lost.\n\nChromium picolinate promotes efficient metabolism by aiding\nthe thermogenic (heat producing) effects of insulin.\nInsulin levels serve as a rough index of the availability\nof food calories, so it's not at all surprising that insulin \nstimulates metabolism (4, 7, 8). Note that I did not say\nthat chromium picolinate increases metabolism.\n\nIn summary, you need to change your life style in order to\nloose weight and stay healthy:\n\n A. Reduce dietary fat consumption to no more than 20% of calories.\n - Eating fat makes you fat.\n\n B. Increase dietary fiber\n - low in calories; high in nutrients.\n\n C. Get regular aerobic exercise at least 3 times a week\n - burn calories.\n\n D. Take chromium picolinate daily\n - lose fat; keep muscle\n\n\nReferences:\n\n1. Kaats GR, Fisher JA, Blum K. Abstract, American Aging\n Association, 21st Annual Meeting, Denver, October 1991.\n2. Evans, GW. Int J Biosoc Med Res 1989; 11: 163-180.\n3. Page TG, Ward TL, Southern LL. J Animal Sci 69, Suppl 1:\n Abstract 403, 1991.\n4. Felig P. Clin Physiol 1984; 4: 267-273.\n5. Kimball SR, Jefferson LS. Diabetes Metab Rev 4: 773, 1988.\n6. Fukugawa NK, Minaher KL, Rowe JW. et al. J Clin Invest 76:\n 2306, 1985.\n7. Fehlmann M, Freychet P. Biol Chem 256: 7449, 1981\n8. Pittman CS, Suda AK, Chambers JB, Jr., Ray GY. Metabolism\n 28: 333, 1979.\n9. Danforth E, Jr. Am J Clin Nutr 41: 1132, 1985.\n10. McCarty MF. Med Hypoth 20: 183, 1986.\n11. Bielinski R, Schutz Y, Jequier E. Am J Clin Nutr 42:69, 1985.\n12. Young JC, Treadway JL, Balon TW, Garvas HP, Ruderman NB.\n Metabolism 35: 1048, 1986.\n", " There\n\n\nIndeed. I spend about 60% of my time dealing with quality stuff. It\nis a hot number. \nTwo journals worth looking at are:-\nQuality Review Bulletin. Pub:Joint Commission on Accreditation of\nHealthcare Organizations, one Renaissance boulevard, Oakbrook\nTerrace, IL 60181\nQuality in Health Care. BMJ Publishing Group, Box No. 560B,\nKennebunkport, ME 04046", "What causes those little brown spots on older people's hands? Are they\ncalled \"liver spots\" because they're sort of liver-colored, or do they\nindicate some actual liver dysfunction?", "The best way of self injection is to use the right size needle\nand choose the correct spot. For Streptomycin, usually given intra\nmuscularly, use a thin needle (23/24 guage) and select a spot on\nthe upper, outer thigh (no major nerves or blood vessels there). \nClean the area with antiseptic before injection, and after. Make\nsure to inject deeply (a different kind of pain is felt when the\nneedle enters the muscle - contrasted to the 'prick' when it \npierces the skin).", "I am looking for some clarification on a subject that I am trying to find some\ninformation on.\n\nHow is HSV-2 (Herpes) transmitted? I currently know that it can be transmitted\nduring inflammation but, what I am looking for is if it can be transmitted \nduring in other periods. Also, I want to know if you can be accurately tested \nfor it while you are not showing symtoms?\n\nIf you can help I would greatly appreciate it.", "Do the words \"chilling effect\" stimulate impulses within that\nsmall collection of neurons you call a brain?\n\ncpk\n-- \nIt's been 80 days. Do you know where your wallet is?", "I have a friend who has just been diagnosed with Lupus, and I know nothing\nabout this disease. The only thing I do know is that this is some sort of\nskin disease, and my friend shows no skin rashes - in fact, they used a \nblood test to determine what had been wrong with an on going sacro-\nilliac joint problem. \nI am finding a hard time finding information on this disease. Could\nanyone please enlighten me as to the particulars of this disease. \nplease feel free to E-mail me at \nbytor@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us", "\n\n | You certainly do not see OTC preparations advertised as such.\n | The only such ridiculous concoctions are nostrums for premenstrual\n | syndrome, ostensibly to treat headache and \"bloating\" simultaneously.\n | They're worthless.\n\n\n | That's not the idea, and no, they don't work.\n\n\tI *believe* there is a known synergism between certain\nanalgesics and caffiene. For treating pain, not inflammation.\n\n\tNow that I am an ibuprofen convert I haven't taken it for some\ntime, but excedrin really works! (grin)\n\nNathan\n\n\n\n | -- \n | Steve Dyer\n | dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer", "My girlfriend just started taking this drug for her migranes. It really\nhelped her get through the rebound withdrawl when she got off analgesics. \nShe doesn't have a mail account, but asked me to forward this:\n\n\"Glaxo is the distributor; Imitrex is the drug's brand name. It works. \nShe can call her pharmacy for more info. The \"miracle\" drug has been used\nfor years in Europe and for some time in Canada. Trials in the U.S. were\ncompleted and the drug hit the US market at the end of March. Some\npharmacies don't stock it yet. Presently it needs to be injected\nsubcutaneously; although testing is starting with a nasal spray form. It\nmimics serotonin (its molecular structure that fits onto pain receptors\nlooks identical to serotonin on a model I saw)\"", "Am looking for network access to recent research into treatments for\nprecocious puberty. If you know of specifics, would appreciate email. \nI have plenty of general textbook type references. Have a niece whose\ndaughter is afflicted. The mother is an RN and has done a rather\nexhaustive search of printed material. \n\nPls Email suggestions to \nlumensa@lub001.lamar.edu\n\nThanx.\n-- \n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDale Parish - Orange, Texas | Is the surface of a planet the\nLamar's Token Perpetual Student | proper place for a developing \n(409)745-(vox)3899;(rec)1581;dat(2507) | industrial civilization?", "\nThe disease you are talking about is toxoplasmosis. It is a protozoan that \nlives and multiplies within cells. In cats, the protozoan multiplies in the\nintestinal cells and eggs are shed in the cat's feces. The protozoa can\ncross the placenta to infect the fetus. The disease may be asymptomatic\nafter the baby is born, or it may be very severe. Toxo may cause blindness\nand mental retardation.\n\nHaving a cat in the same apartment should not be a problem; however, pregnant\nwomen should not scoop or change the cat's litterbox. In addition, whoever\ndoes empty the litterbox should thoroughly wash his/her hands before handling\nanything else, especially food.\n\nInformation came from _The Merck Manual, 15th Ed._\n\nI hope this information is helpful to you.", "Frequently of late, I have been reacting to something added to\nrestaurant foods. What happens is that the inside of my throat starts\nto feel \"puffy\", like I have a cold, and also at times the inside of my\nmouth (especially the tongue) and lips also feel puffy.\n\nThe situations around these symptoms almost always involve restaurants\n(usually chinese), the most notable cases: a cheap chinese fast food\nchain, a japanese steak house (I had the steak), and another chinese\nfast food chain where I SAW the cook put about a tablespoon or two of\nwhat looked like sugar or salt into my fried rice.\n\nI am under the impression that MSG \"enhances\" flavor by causing the\ntaste buds to swell. If this is correct, I do not find it unreasonable\nto assume that high doses of MSG can cause other mouth tissues to swell.\n\nAlso, as the many of the occurances (including two of the above)\ninvolved beef, and as beef is frequently tenderized with MSG, this is\nwhat I suspect as being the cause.\n\nI wouldn't be at all surprised if toxicity studies of MSG in animals\nshowed it as being harmless, as it would be very startling to hear a lab\nrat or rhesus monkey complain about their throats feeling funny.\n\nAnyone who wishes to explain how the majority of food additives are\ntotally harmless is welcome to e-mail me with the results of any studied\nthey know of. I will probably respond to them however with a reminder\nof how long it took to prove that smoking causes cancer (which the\ntobacco companies still deny).\n\n- DM\n\n(If I sound grumpy, it's because I had beef with broccoli for lunch\ntoday, and now it hurts to swallow)\n\n--\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDan Myers (Madman)\t\t| If the creator had intended us to walk \nmyers@usceast.cs.scarolina.edu\t| upright, he wouldn't have given us knuckles", "You are brain damaged. That hate of++0B1FATransfer cancelledf yours courses\nthrough your sick body like poison. It's just a matter of time. Your fate\nis sealed.", " Would you like fries with that, sir?\n", "\n\nSee the rec.pets.cats FAQ or any doctor or vet for more information.\n\nI am not any of the above, but we do have a couple of cats.\n\nIt is transmitted through the fecal matter, so a pregnant woman should\navoid cleaning the cat tray and you should both wash hands before\npreparing or eating meals. The latter is sound advice at any time of\ncourse.\n\nApart from that, its no great problem. You certainly do not need to\nget rid of your cats.\n\nPaul.", "\nIMHO, the original poster has no business soliciting diagnoses off the net,\nnor does Dr./Mr. O'Donnell have any business supplying same. This is one\nmajor reason real physicians avoid this newsgroup like the plague. It is\nalso another example of the double standard: if I as a physician offered\nto diagnose and treat on the net, I can be sued. But people without\nqualifications are free to do whatever they want and disclaim it all with\n\"I'm not a doctor.\"\n\nGet and keep this crap off the net. Period.", "\n\nThis homeopathic remedies. I tried the dander one for a month. 15 drops \nthree times a day. I didn't notice any change whats so ever. How long \nwere you using the drops before you noticed a difference?", " Nobody is saying that you shouldn't be allowed to use msg. Just\ndon't force it on others. If you have food that you want to \nenhance with msg just put the MSG on the table like salt. It is\nthen the option of the eater to use it. If you make a commerical\nproduct, just leave it out. You can include a packet (like some\nsalt packets) if you desire.\n\nSalt, pepper, mustard, ketchup, pickles ..... are table options.\nTreat MSG the same way. I wouldn't shove my condiments down your\nthroat, don't shove yours down mine.\n\nWFL\n", "I know that the placebo effect is where a patient feels better or \neven gets better because of his/her belief in the medicine and \nthe doctor administering it. Is there also an anti-placebo \neffect where the patient dislikes/distrusts doctors and medicine \nand therefore doesn't get better or feel better in spite of the \nmedicine?\n\nIs there an effect where the doctor believes so strongly in a \nmedicine that he/she sees improvement where the is none or sees \nmore improvement than there is? If so, what is this effect \ncalled? Is there a reverse of the above effect where the doctor \ndoesn't believe in a medicine and then sees less improvement than \nthere is? What would this effect be called? Have these effects \never been studied? How common are these effects? Thank you in \nadvance for all replies. ", "Recently I've come upon a body of literature which promotes colon\ncleansing as a vital aid to preventive medicine through nutrition. In\nparticular, Dr. Bernard Jenssen in his book \"Colon Cleansing for\nHealth and Longevity\" -- the title actually escapes me, but it is very\nsimilar to that -- claims that regular self-administered colonics,\nalong with certain orally ingested \"debris-loosening agents\", boosts\nthe immune system to a significant degree.\n\nHe also plugs a unique appliance called the \"Colema Board\", which\nfacilitates the self-administration of colonics. It sells for over\n$100 from a California-based company. He also plugs Vitra-Tox\nproducts as his chemical agents of choice: these include volcanic ash,\nsupposedly for its electrical charge, and psyllium powder, for its\nbulkiness.\n\nIf anyone knows anything about colon cleansing theory, its\nparticulars, or the Colema Board and related products, I'd be very\ninterested to hear about research and personal experience.\n\nThis article is crossposted to alt.magick as the issue touches upon\nfasting and cleansing through a \"ritual\" system of purification.\n\n-- Eli\n", "\n\n\nLet me carry that a step further. Most doctors would not claim to be \ninfallible. Indeed, they would generally admit that they could conceivably\nbe wrong, e.g. that in this case, a blood tranfusion might not turn out to \nbe necessary after all. However, the doctors would have enough confidence\nand conviction to claim, out of genuine concern, that is IS necessary. As\nfallible human beings, they must acknowledge the possibility that they are\nwrong. However, they would also say that such doubts are not reasonable,\nand stand by their convictions.\n", "As I recall from my bout with kidney stones, there isn't any\nmedication that can do anything about them except relieve the pain.\n\nEither they pass, or they have to be broken up with sound, or they have\nto be extracted surgically.\n\nWhen I was in, the X-ray tech happened to mention that she'd had kidney\nstones and children, and the childbirth hurt less.", " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^\n ^^^^^^^^\n\nBenzene is most definitely a carcinogen. If you can get your hands on it\n\n* Don't use it! *", "I originally posted this to alt.suicide.holiday but it was recommended\nthat I try you guys instead:\n\nMy friend insists that Ny-Quil can be deadly if enough is taken -- he\nsuggested something like 20-30 of the Night-time gelcaps would do someone\nin. Being a NORMAL user of Ny-Quil :), I checked the 'ingredients' and\nhave a very hard time believing it. They are:\n\n250 g acetaminophen\n30 mg Pseudoephedrine HCl\n10 mg Dextromethorphan HBr\n6.25 mg Doxylamine Succinate\n\n(per softgel)\n\nCan someone settle our bet (a package of Ny-Quil of course :) -- what \neffect would 20-30 of these babies have?\n\n*-Nathan-*\n\n-- ", "\nYeah, the \"Feingold Diet\" is a load of crap. Children diagnosed with ADD\nwho are placed on this diet show no improvement in their intellectual and\nsocial skills, which in fact continue to decline. Of course, the parents\nwho are enthusiastic about this approach lap it up at the expense of their\nchildren's development. So much for the value of \"interesting anecdotal\nresults\". People will believe anything if they want to.\n", "---\n\n\tThen let me ask you for a \"workable\" solution. We have a name\nhere that implies certain things to many people. Rather than trying\nto educate each and every person that comes to the group -- is there\nsome \"name\" that would imply what this group was originally\nintended for? \n\n\tMy dad was a lawyer -- as such I grew up with being a stickler\nfor \"meaning\". In my \"reality\", psychoactives *technically* could \nrange from caffeine to datura to the drugs you mention to more\nstandard recreational drugs. In practice I had hoped to see it\nlimited to those that were above some psychoactive level -- like\nsome of the drugs you mention, but also possibly including *some*\nrecreational drugs -- but with conversation limited to their psychoactive \neffects -- the recent query about \"bong water\", I thought was a bit\noff topic -- so I just hit \"k\".\n\n\tBut back to the original question -- what is a workable solution --\nwhat is a workable name that would imply the topic you with to\ndiscuss? It sounds like there should be a alt.smartdrugs, or something\nsimilar -- I don't feel psychoactives would generally be used to\ndescribe alot of those drugs. There is a big difference between a\ndrug that if taken in \"certain doses, over a period of days may have\na psychoactive effect in some people\", vs. many of the drugs in\nPIHKAH which *are* psychoactive.\n\n\nwm\n-- ", "eyes?\n\nBy looking at the iris (iridology) - virtually nothing.\n\nLooking at the retina allows one to visualise the small blood\nvessels and is helpful in assessing various systemic diseases,\nhypertension and diabetes for example.", "I have two quations to ask:\n\n1) Does it cause the body any harm if one picks one's nose? For example,\nmight it lead to a loss of ability to smell?\n\n2) Is it harmful for one to eat one's nose pickings?", "\nYou became older and your intestine normalized to the weaned state. That\nis, lactose tolerance is an unusual state for adults of most mammals\nexcept for h. sapiens of northern European origin. As a h. sapiens of \nasian descent (assumption based on name) the loss of lactase is normal\nfor you. ", "Here is a press release from Huntington Medical Research Institutes.\n\n New Method For Diagnosing Alzheimer's Disease Discovered at\nHuntington Medical Research Institutes: Results to Be Reported\n To: National Desk, Health Writer\n Contact: John Lockhart or Belinda Gerber, 310-444-7000, or\n 800-522-8877, for the Huntington Medical Research\n Institutes.\n\n LOS ANGELES, April 28 -- A new method for diagnosing \nand measuring chemical imbalances in the brain\nwhich lead to Alzheimer's disease and other dementias has been\ndiscovered by researchers at the Huntington Medical Research\nInstitutes (HMRI) in Pasadena, Calif. Results of their research\nwill be reported in the May issue of the scientific journal,\nRadiology.\n Using an advanced form of magnetic resonance imaging (MRI)\ncalled magnetic resonance spectroscopy (MRS), a research team led\nby Brian D. Ross, M.D., D. Phil., conducted a study on 21 elderly\npatients who were believed to be suffering from some form of\ndementia. The exams used standard MRI equipment fitted with special\nsoftware developed at HMRI called Clinical Proton MRS. Clinical\nProton MRS is easily applied, giving doctors confirmatory diagnoses\nin less than 30 minutes. An automated version of Clinical Proton\nMRS called Proton Brain Examination (PROBE) reduces the examination\ntime yet further, providing confirmatory diagnoses in less than 10\nminutes. By comparison, the current \"standard of care\" in testing\nfor Alzheimer's disease calls for lengthy memory function and\nneuropsychological tests, which can be very upsetting to the\npatient, are not definitive and can only be confirmed by autopsy.\n In addition to Alzheimer's disease, the new Clinical Proton MRS\nexam may have applications in diagnosing other dementias, including\nAIDS-related dementia, Parkinson's disease and Huntington's\ndisease.\n \"We've developed a simple test which can be administered quickly\nand relatively inexpensively using existing MRI equipment fitted\nwith either the MRS or PROBE software,\" said Dr. Ross, adding,\n\"this will help physicians to diagnose Alzheimer's earlier and\nintervene with therapeutics before the progression of the disease\ncauses further damage to the delicate inner workings of the brain.\"\n Dr. Ross and his HMRI team measured a family of chemicals in the\nbrain known as inositols, and myo-inositol (MI) acted as a marker\nin the study. In comparison to healthy patients, those diagnosed\nwith Alzheimer's showed a 22 percent increase in MI, while their\nlevel of another chemical called N-acetylaspartate (NAA) was\nsignificantly lower, indicating a loss of brain-stimulating neurons\nbelieved to be associated with the progression of the disease.\n Current drug therapy for Alzheimer's disease is widely\nconsidered to be inadequate. This is attributable, Dr. Ross\nbelieves, to the theory that Alzheimer's is caused by an\ninterruption in the transmission of the chemical acetylcholine to\nthe nerve cells. This belief has been adhered to over the last 15\nyears, and consequently, most drugs to treat Alzheimer's were based\non the changing receptors for acetylcholine.\n \"Physicians have a real need for a test to differentiate\nAlzheimer's from other dementias, to provide the patient and his or\nher family with a firm diagnosis and to monitor future treatment\nprotocols for the treatment of this disease. For this reason, we\nconsider this test a major advancement in medicine,\" said Bruce\nMiller, M.D., a noted neurologist at Harbor-UCLA, MRS researcher\nand a co-author of the study.\n Other members of the HMRI research team included Rex A. Moats,\nPh.D., Truda Shonk, B.S., Thomas Ernst, Ph.D., and Suzanne Woolley,\nR.N. The PROBE software can be fitted on the approximately 1,200\nGeneral Electric MRI units currently in use in the United States,\nand will be configured for other manufacturers' MRI units soon.\n For interviews with Dr. Ross, advance copies of the Radiology\nMay issue, and other information, please contact John Lockhart or\nBelinda Gerber for HMRI at 310-444-7000 or 800-522-8877.\n\n Q & A on Alzheimer's Disease:\n\n What is Alzheimer's disease and how is it caused?\n Alzheimer's disease (AD) is an incurable degenerative disease of\nthe brain first described in 1906 by the German neuropathologist\nAlois Alzheimer. As the disease progresses, it leads to loss of\nmemory and mental functioning, followed by changes in personality,\nloss of control of bodily functions, and, eventually, death.\n How many people does it affect?\n Alzheimer's disease affects an estimated 4 million adults in\nthe United States and is the fourth leading cause of death, taking\napproximately 100,000 lives each year. While Alzheimer's\ndebilitates its victims, it is equally devastating, both\nemotionally and financially, for patients' families. AD is the\nmost common cause of dementia in adults. Symptoms worsen every\nyear, and death usually occurs within 10 years of initial onset.\n What are its signs and symptoms?\n Although the cause of AD is not known, two risk factors have\nbeen identified: advanced age and genetic predisposition. The risk\nof developing AD is less than one percent before the age of 50\nyars old, but increases steeply in each successive decade of life\nto reach 30 percent by the age of 90. In patients with familial\nAD, immediate family relatives have a 50 percent chance of\ndeveloping AD. One of its first symptoms is severe \"forgetfulness\"\ncaused by short-term memory loss. Dr. Herman Weinreb of the School\nof Medicine at New York University says \"whether forgetfulness is\na serious symptom or not is largely a matter of degree\" and\nsuggests the following criteria:\n\n -- Forgetting the name of someone you see infrequently is\n normal.\n -- Forgetting the name of a loved one is serious.\n -- Forgetting where you left your keys is normal.\n -- Forgetting how to get home is serious.\n\n Doctors suggest that people with severe symptoms should be\nevaluated in order to rule out Alzheimer's disease and other forms\nof dementia.\n -30-", ": \n{much deleted]\n: \n: \n: The fact that this happened while eating two sugar coated cereals made\n: by Kellog's makes me think she might be having an allergic reaction to\n: something in the coating or the cereals. Of the four of us in our\n: immediate family, Kathryn shows the least signs of the hay fever, running\n: nose, itchy eyes, etc. but we have a lot of allergies in our family history\n: including some weird food allergies - nuts, mushrooms. \n: \n\nMany of these cereals are corn-based. After your post I looked in the\nliterature and located two articles that implicated corn (contains\ntryptophan) and seizures. The idea is that corn in the diet might\npotentiate an already existing or latent seizure disorder, not cause it.\nCheck to see if the two Kellog cereals are corn based. I'd be interested.", "-*-----\n\n\nI hope Gordon Banks did not mean to imply that notions such as\nhard-to-see candida infections causing various problems should not\nbe investigated. Many researchers have made breakthroughs by \nfiguring out how to investigate things that were previously thought\n\"virtually impossible to test for.\"\n\nIndeed, I would be surprised if \"candida overbloom\" were such a\nphenomena. I would think that candida would produce signature\nbyproducts whose measure would then set a lower bound on the \nextent of recent infection. I realize this might get quite \ntricky and difficult, probably expensive, and likely inconvenient\nor uncomfortable to the subjects, but that is not the same as \n\"virtually impossible.\"", "hypodermic\nit. \nthere is\nme.\n\nLooking in The Evolution of Anaesthesia by M.H. Armstrong Davison\n(pub Williams & Wilkins, Baltimore 1965) I found the following\nchronology:\n\n\"1853. Charles-Gabriel Pravaz (1791-1853), inventor of the\ngalvanocautery, describes a glass syringe with tapered nozzle. This\nsyringe was intended to be used with a special trocar for injecting\nferric chloride into aneurysms, and thus to heal them by coagulation.\n\n1853. Alexander Wood (1817-84) of Edinburgh invents the hypodermic\nneedle and adapts Pravaz's syringe for use with it.\"\n\nYou might also be interested to read about the experiments of Sir\nChristopher Wren in 1656, described by Oldenberg & Clarck in the\nPhilosophical transactions of the Royal Society in 1665. Using a\nsharpened quill and a pig's bladder he injected opium, wine and beer\ninto the veins of dogs.", "\n\nPolysyllabic is polysyllabic too....", "\nRon, you are absolutely right. Not all kidney stones have calcium and not \nall calcium stones are calcium-oxalate. But the vast majority are calcium-\noxalate. Calcium is just one piece of the puzzle. I cited that NEJM article \nas a way of pointing out to some of the physicians in this group that \nconventional wisdom is used in medicine, always has been and probably \nalways will be. If one uses conventional wisdom, there is a chance that \nyou will be wrong. As long as the error is not going to cause a lot of \ndamage, what's the big deal(why call a physician who gives anti-fungals to \nsinus suffers or GI distress patients a quack?).\n\nOn the kidney stone problem. I'd want a mineral profile run in a clinical \nchemistry lab. Balance is much more important than the dietary intake of \ncalcium. I know that you use an electrical conductance technique to \nmeasure mineral balance in the body. I know that you don't think that the \nserum levels for minerals are very useful(I agree). If I can get a good \nnutritional assessment lab setup where I can actually measure the tissue \nreserve for minerals, I'd like to do a collaborative study with you to see \nhow your technique compares with mine.\n", "\nBlood glucose levels of 40 or so are common several hours after a\nbig meal. This level will usually not cause symptoms.\n\n\nIf you mean \"reactive\" hypoglycemia, there are usually no symptoms,\nhence there is no disease, hence the dietary recommendations are the\nsame as for anyone else. If a patient complains of dizziness,\nfaintness, sweating, palpitations, etc. reliably several hours after\na big meal, the recommendations are obvious - eat smaller meals.", "\nProbably because most of them come packaged with some absurd theory\nbehind them. E.G. homoeopathy: like cures like. The more you dilute\nthings, the more powerful they get, even if you dilute them so much\nthere is no ingredient but water left. Chiropractic: all illness\nstems from compressions of nerves by misaligned vertebrae. Such\nsystems are so patently absurd, that any good they do is accidental\nand not related to the theory. The only exception is probably herbalism,\nbecause scientists recognize the potent drugs that derive from plants\nand are always interested in seeing if they can find new plants\nthat have active and useful substances. But that isn't what \nis meant by alternative medicine, usually. If you get into the Qi,\naccupuntunce charts, etc, you are now back to silly theories that\nprobably have nothing to do with why accupuncture works in some cases.\n\nPerhaps another reason they are reluctant is the Rhine experience.\nRhine was a scientist who wanted to investigate the paranormal\nand his lab was filled with so much chacanery and fakery that \npeople don't want to be associated with that sort of thing. \n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "\nEDTA(chelation therapy) has been used by some physicians to try to remove \ncalcium from calcified plaques in the arterial system(not approved for such \nuse). There is also the possibility that lung tissue in patients with lung \ndisease has become calcified(chest x-rays would show this). There are side\n-effects to the use of EDTA because it is not specific for calcium(it also \nbinds other minerals). I think that there have been some deaths when \nEDTA chelation therapy has been used because of mineral imbalances that \nwere not detected and corrected. In animal studies, the best way to remove \ncalcium from plaques in rabbits was to supplement the rabbits with vitamin C \nand magnesium(rabbits already synthesize their own vitamin C, the extra \nvitamin C was given in their diets to help the magnesium displace the calcium \nfrom the plaques).\n\nThe calcification process that occurs in both plaques and the lung probably \ncan be prevented if magnesium is used in supplemental form. Most patietns \nwith calcium deposits are found to be deficient in calcium.\n\n\t1. \"Magnesium interrationships in ischemic heart disease: A review\"\n\t Am J Clin Nutr 27(1):59-79(1974). Supplementation with \n\t magnesium will prevent clacification of blood vessels. \n\n\t2. \"The importance of magnesium deficiency in cardiovascular \n\t disease\" Am. Heart J 94:649-57(1977). The need to measure the \n\t serum concentration in all patients with heat disease cannot be \n\t overemphasized. This is a review article.\n\n\t3. \"Effect of dietary magnesium on development of atherosclerosis \n\t in cholesterol-fed rabbits\" Atherosclerosis 10:732-7(1990). \n\t Magnesium supplementation greatly decreased the formation of \n\t plaques in rabbits feed a diet that had 1% by weight cholesterrol \n\t added to their normal food.\n\nSince EDTA will also bind magnesium, I've never really liked it's use for \nthe reversal of athersclerosis or now apparently in emphesema patients.", "This reminds me of the last Graham Kerr cooking show I saw. Today he\nsmoked meat on the stovetop in a big pot! He used a strange technique\nI'd never seen before.\n\nHe took a big pot with lid, and placed a tray in it made from aluminum foil.\nThe tray was about the size and shape of a typical coffee-table ash tray,\nmade by crumpling a sheet of foil around the edges.\n\nIn the tray, he placed a couple spoonfuls of brown sugar, a similar\nquantity of brown rice (he said any rice will do), the contents of two\nteabags of Earl Grey tea, and a few cloves.\n\nOn top of this was placed an ordinary aluminum basket-type steamer, with\ntwo chicken breasts in it. The lid was put on, and the whole assembly\nwent on the stovetop at high heat for 10 or 12 minutes.\n\nLater, he removed what looked like smoked chicken breasts. What surprises\nand concerns me are:\n\n1) No wood chips. Where does the smoke flavor come from?\n\n2) About 5 or 10 years ago, I remember hearing that carmel color\n (obtained by caramelizing sugar -- a common coloring and flavoring\n agent) had been found to be carcinogenic. I believe they injected\n it under the skin of rats, or something. If the results were conclusive,\n caramel color would not be legal in the U.S., yet it is still being\n used. Was the initial research result found to be incorrect, or what?\n\n3) About 5 or 10 years ago, I remember Earl Grey tea being implicated\n as carcinogenic, because it contains oil of bergamot (an extract\n from the skin of a type of citrus fruit). Does anyone know whatever\n happened with that story? If it were carcinogenic, Earl Grey tea\n could not have it as an additive, yet it apparently continues to do\n so.\n\nWRT natural wood smoke (I've smoking a duck right now, as it happens),\nI've noticed that a heavily-smoked food item will have an unpleasant tangy\ntaste when eaten directly out of the smoker if the smoke has only recently\nstopped flowing. I find the best taste to be had by using dry wood chips,\ngetting lots of smoke right up at the beginning of the cooking process,\nthen slowly barbequing for hours and hours without adding additional wood chips.\n\nMy theory is that the unpleasant tangy molecules are low-molecular weight\nstuff, like terpenes, and that the smoky flavor molecules are some sort\nof larger molecule more similar to tar. The long barbeque time after\nthe initial intensive smoke drives off the low-molecular weight stuff,\njust leaving the flavor behind. Does anyone know if my theory is correct?\n\nI also remember hearing that the combustion products of fat dripping\non the charcoal and burning are carcinogenic. For that reason, and because\nit covers the product with soot and some unpleasant tanginess, I only grill\nnon-drippy meats like prawns directly over hot coals. I do stuff like this\nduck by indirect heat. I have a long rectangular Weber, and I put the coals\nat one end and the meat at the other end. The fat drops directly on the\nfloor below the meat, and next time I use the barbeque I make the fire\nin that end to burn off the fat and help ignite the coals.\n\nAnd yet another reason I've heard not to smoke or barbeque meat is that\nsmoked cured meat, like pork sausage and bacon, contains\nnitrosamines, which are carcinogenic. I'm pretty sure this claim actually\nhas some standing, don't know about the others.", "\n\nI'm all in favor of drug legalization, but I do see some problems with\nit. My hope is that people disposed to doing so would simply overdose\nquickly, and be done with it, before making a mess of thisgs.\n", "Phenylketonuria is a disease in which the body cannot process phenylalanine.\nIt can build up in the blood and cause seizures and neurological damage.\nAn odd side effect is that the urine can be deeply colored, like red wine.\nPeople with the condition must avoid Nutrasweet, chocolate, and anything\nelse rich in phenylalanine.", "I cured mine with Bag Balm which I bought at the local farm\nsupply store. It is relatively cheap and works in a few days.\nThe product was developed to treat sore udders. \n\n", ":I recently had a case of shingles and my doctors wanted to give me\n:intravenous Acyclovir.\n:\n:It was a pain finding IV sites in my arms...can I have some facts about\n:how advantageous it is to give intravenous antibiotics rather than oral?\n:\n\nI think some essential information must be missing here, i.e., you must be\nsuffering from a condition which has caused immunosuppression. There is\nno indication for IV acyclovir for shingles in an otherwise healthy\nperson. The oral form can help to reduce the length of symptoms, and may\neven help prevent the development of post-herpetic neuralgia, but I\ncertainly would not subject someone to IV therapy without a good reason.\n\nTo address your more general question, IV therapy does provide higher and\nmore consistently high plasma and tissue levels of a drug. For treating a\nserious infection this is the only way to be sure that a patient is\ngetting adequate drug levels.\n", "tes:\n\nFirst, the only drug that could possibly be put in drug stations are marijuana \nor its derivitives. Every other drug that I can think of can kill you if you \ntake to much. (By the very nature of these drugs, your decision making skills \naren't up to par. That is how it differs from asprin, flinstone vitamins, etc.\nWe don't even allow penicilin to be sold over the counter.)\n\nSecond, we already have a big enough drunk driving and alchoholic problem in \nthis country. If marijuana were legal, undoubtedly more people would use it, \nand that IS a problem. People use it, get stupid, and hurt other people.", "\nSnort. Ah, there go my sinuses again.\n\n\nOh, wow. A classic textbook. Hey, they laughed at Einstein, too!\n\n\nYeah, I'll bet. Tomorrow, the world.\n\nListen, uncontrolled studies like this are worthless.\n\n\nI'm sure you are. You sound like the typical hysteric/hypochondriac who\nresponds to \"miracle cures.\"\n\n\nYeah, \"it makes sense to me\", so of course it should be taken seriously.\nSnort.\n\n\nYeah, \"it sounds reasonable to me\".\n\n\nOh, really? _What_ tests? Immune-compromised, my ass.\nMore like credulous malingerer. This is a psychiatric syndrome.\n\n\nYou know, it's a shame that a drug like itraconazole is being misused\nin this way. It's ridiculously expensive, and potentially toxic.\nThe trouble is that it isn't toxic enough, so it gets abused by quacks.\n\n\nThe only good thing about nystatin is that it's (relatively) cheap\nand when taken orally, non-toxic. But oral nystatin is without any\nsystemic effect, so unless it were given IV, it would be without\nany effect on your sinuses. I wish these quacks would first use\nIV nystatin or amphotericin B on people like you. That would solve\nthe \"yeast\" problem once and for all.\n\n\nPerhaps a little Haldol would go a long way towards ameliorating\nyour symptoms.\n\nAre you paying for this treatment out of your own pocket? I'd hate\nto think my insurance premiums are going towards this.\n", "\n\nI agree with this consensus that it should not have been written the way\nit was. My doctor - who claims to have introduced Dr. Crook to the\npossibility of candida overbloom causing diffuse symptoms way back in\n1961 (I have no reason to doubt him on this) - does not like the book\nbecause 1) it makes too many unfounded claims, and 2) is horribly written\nfrom a scientific viewpoint. On the other hand, my doctor has always kept\nan open mind on the subject and does believe in aspects of the \"yeast\nconnection\".\n\nBut, I believe there is some truth to the book. Hopefully the right\nclinical studies can be done to separate the fact from the fiction. In\nthe meantime, I'd still encourage people who have \"incurable\" chronic sinus\nproblems (especially if they overused antibiotics), to find a doctor to\nadminister a systemic-type anti-fungal such as itraconazole (along with\nliver panels before, during and after treatment just to play it safe). It\nis an empirical approach for sure, but when all else fails, and your ENT\nsays \"sorry, you'll just have to live with it\", it is time to step out and\ntry an empirical approach backed up with significant anecdotal evidence\n(Dr. Ivker), supported by plausible theories (outlined by Marty). At\nthis stage you have little to lose, particularly if you use itraconazole and\nhave the proper monitoring - the health risk has been shown through extensive\nclinical studies both in Europe and the U.S. to be very minimal with\nrelatively healthy (i.e., non-AIDS) patients. I'm glad I did this, since I\nsaw remarkable results after only one week on Sporanox (itraconazole). Of\ncourse, your mileage may vary a lot - everyone is different so it may not\nwork for you. Talk to your doctor.\n\nJon Noring\n\n-- \n\nCharter Member --->>> INFJ Club.", "GB> From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nGB> >(I am excepting migraine, which is arguably neurologic).\nGB> I hope you meant \"inarguably\".\n\nGiven the choice, I would rather argue .\n\nNo arguments about migranous aura; in fact, current best evidence is\nthat aura is intrinsicially neuronal (a la spreading depression of\nLeao) rather than vascular (something causing vasoconstriction and\nsecondary neuronal ischemia).\n\nMigraine without aura, however, is a fuzzier issue. There do not\nseem to be objectively measurable changes in brain function. The\nCopenhagen mafia (Lauritzen, Olesen, et al) have done local CBF\nstudies on migraine without aura, and (unlike migraine with aura,\nbut like tension-type) they found no changes in LCBF.\n\nFrom one (absurd) perspective, *all* pain is neurologic, because in\nthe absence of a nervous system, there would not be pain. From\nanother (tautologic) perspective, any disease is in the domain of\nthe specialty that treats it. Neurologists treat headache,\ntherefore (at least in the USA) headache is neurologic.\n\nWhether neurologic or not, nobody would disagree that disabling\nheadaches are common. Perhaps my fee-for-service neurologic\ncolleagues, scrounging for cases, want all the headache patients\nthey can get. Working on a salary, however, I would rather not fill\nmy office with patients holding their heads in pain.", "Hi sci.med folks...\n\nI would like to know anything you folks can tell me regarding Lithium.\n\nI have a 10 year old son that lives with my ex-wife. She has been having\ndifficulty with his behavior and has had him on Ritalin, Tofranil, and now\nwants to try Lithuim at the local doctors suggestion. I would like to \nknow whatever is important that I should know. I worry about this sort of\nthing and would like pros/cons regarding Lithium therapy.\n\nI have a booklet from the \"Lithium Information Center\" based at the \nUniversity of Wisconsin, but feel that it is pro-lithium and would be\ninterested in comments from the \"not necessarily PRO\" side of the fence.\n\nI am a concerned father and just wish to be well informed...\n\nThanks for any information you can provide.\n\nPlease email me directly...\n", "presented\n\nSince her symptoms are only pain she would do weel to seek the\nadvice of a good, multi-disciplinary pain clinic. It is distressing\nto think that people are stll being told they have to \"live with the\npain\" when many options for pain management (rather than treating\nMRI findings) are available. A good pain clinic will accept that\nthis lady's problem is her pain and set about finding ways of\nrelieveing that.", "Need Diet for Diverticular Disease\nand ideas for gastrointestinal distress\n", "I don't mean to be disrespectful to your concerns, but it seems to me \nthat you're getting all wound up in a non-issue. \n\nAs many knowledgeable people have pointed out, msg is a naturally \noccurring substance in a lot, if not most, foods. When food \nmanufacturers add it to a preparation, they do so because it's a \nknown flavor enhancer. \n\nYour wife's theory, that MSG is added to food to stimulate appetite, \nmay well be true. But I don't believe it's ALWAYS the reason it's \nadded. People are (largely, for the most part) in charge of their \nown appetites. \n\nYou don't know much about cats, do you? \n\nCats will Take Advantage of You. Resign yourself: you will never \nunderstand a cat. Their tastes are whimsical. \n\nI also suspect, though it's been a while since I've checked ingredients \non commercial cat food, that there are much more stringent requirements \non pet food additives than human. \n\nSee, the FDA has this stupid idea that human beings have the intelligence \nto look out after their own interests. ", "One thing that I haven't seen in this thread is a discussion of the\nrelation between IBD inflammation and the profile of ingested fatty\nacids (FAs).\n\nI was diagnosed last May w/Crohn's of the terminal ileum. When I got\nout of the hospital I read up on it a bit, and came across several\nstudies investigating the role of EPA (an essentially FA) in reducing\ninflammation. The evidence was mixed. [Many of these studies are\ndiscussed in \"Inflammatory Bowel Disease,\" MacDermott, Stenson. 1992.]\n\nBut if I recall correctly, there were some methodological bones to be\npicked with the studies (both the ones w/pos. and w/neg. results). In\nthe studies patients were given EPA (a few grams/day for most of the\nstudies), but, if I recall correctly, there was no restriction of the\n_other_ FAs that the patients could consume. From the informed\nlayperson's perspective, this seems mistaken. If lots of n-6 FAs are\nconsumed along with the EPA, then the ratio of \"bad\" prostanoid\nproducts to \"good\" prostanoid products could still be fairly \"bad.\"\nIsn't this ratio the issue?\n\nWhat's the view of the gastro. community on EPA these days? EPA\nsupplements, along with a fairly severe restriction of other FAs\nappear to have helped me significantly (though it could just be the\nlow absolute amount of fat I eat -- 8-10% calories).", "\nHismanal (astemizole) is most definitely linked to weight gain.\nIt really is peculiar that some antihistamines have this effect,\nand even more so an antihistamine like astemizole which purportedly\ndoesn't cross the blood-brain barrier and so tends not to cause\ndrowsiness.\n", "\nI shot off a response to this last night that I've tried to cancel. It was \nonly a few minutes later while driving home that I remembered that your \nmessage does specifically say cortical. My first reaction had been to suggest\nthe PC12 pheochromocytoma line. That may still be a good compromise, depending\non what you're doing. Have you concidered using a mouse cell line from one \nof the SV40 T antigen transgenic lines? Another alternative might be primary\ncells from bovine adrenal cortex. ", "[...]\n\nAnd presumably this is a matter of degree; it must be common to prescribe\na drug that has _some_ chance of giving _some_ benefit, but not a high\nprobability of it, and/or not a large benefit. Right?\n", "Obesssive Compulsive Disorder (not to be confused with Obsessive Compulsive\n_Personality_ Disorder !) is an acute anxiety disorder characterized by\neither obsessions (persistent intrusive thoughts that cause anxiety when\nnot entertained), or compulsions (repetitive, ritualistic actions that\nsimilarly cause intense psychological discomfort when resisted). \n\nOCD is often associated with certain forms of depression. \n\nExamples of obsessive thoughts are repeated impulses to kill a loved\none (though not accompanied by anger), or a religious person having \nrecurrent blasphemous thoughts. Generally, the individual attempts to ignore\nor suppress the intrusive thoughts by engaging in other activities. \nThe individual realizes that the thoughts originate from the own mind, rather\nthan being from an external source.\n\nExamples of compulsive actions are constant repetitive hand washing,\nor other activity that is not realistically related to alleviating a\nsource of the anxiety.\n\nIn OCD, the obsessions or compulsions are highly distressing to the\nindividual, take an hour or more per day, and significantly impair their\ndaily routine and social relationships.\n\nTreatments include psychotherapy, behavioral methods, and sometimes\ncertain anti-depressants which have recently been found effective in alleviating\nobsessions and compulsions.\n\nThe standard diagnostic code for OCD, if you want to look it up in the\nDSM-III manual of psychiatric diagnosis is 300.30 .\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\tkind regards,", "The following article by columnist Mike Royko is his humorous commentary\non some of the public's perception of doctors and their salaries.\nI hope some of you will find it as amusing as I did.\n\n____________________________________________________________________________\n[Reprinted w/o permission]\n\n\n\"There's no cure for stupidity of poll on doctors' salaries\"\n\nBy Mike Royko\nTribune Media Services\n\n\n On a stupidity scale, a recent poll about doctors' earnings \nis right up there. It almost scored a perfect brain-dead 10.\n It was commissioned by some whiny consumers group called \nFamilies USA.\n The poll tells us that the majority of Americans believe \nthat doctors make too much money.\n The pollsters also asked what a fair income would be for \nphysicians. Those polled said, oh, about $80,000 a year would be \nOK.\n How generous. How sporting. How stupid.\n Why is this poll stupid? Because it is based on resentment \nand envy, two emotions that ran hot during the political campaign \nand are still simmering.\n You could conduct the same kind of poll about any group that \nearns $100,000-plus and get the same results. Since the majority \nof Americans don't make those bucks, they assume that those who \ndo are stealing it from them.\n Maybe the Berlin Wall came down, but don't kid yourself. \nKarl Marx lives.\n It's also stupid because it didn't ask key questions, such \nas: Do you know how much education and training it takes to \nbecome a physician?\n If those polled said no, they didn't know, then they should \nhave been disqualified. If they gave the wrong answers, they \nshould have been dropped. What good are their views on how much \na doctor should earn if they don't know what it takes to become a \ndoctor?\n Or maybe a question should have been phrased this way: \"How \nmuch should a person earn if he or she must (a) get excellent \ngrades and a fine educational foundation in high school in order \nto (b) be accepted by a good college and spend four years taking \ncourses heavy in math, physics, chemistry, and other lab work and \nmaintain a 3.5 average or better, and (c) spend four more years \nof grinding study in medical school, with the third and fourth \nyears in clinical training, working 80 to 100 hours a week, and \n(d) spend another year as a low-pay, hard-work intern, and (e) \nput in another three to 10 years of post-graduate training, \ndepending on your specialty and (f) maybe wind up $100,000 in \ndebt after medical school and (g) then work an average of 60 \nhours a week, with many family doctors putting in 70 hours or \nmore until they retire or fall over?\"\n As you have probably guessed by now, I have considerably \nmore respect for doctors than does the law firm of Clinton and \nClinton, and all the lawyers and insurance executives they have \ncalled together to remake America's health care.\n Based on what doctors contribute to society, they are far \nmore useful than the power-happy, ego-tripping, program-spewing, \nsocial tinkerers who will probably give us a medical plan that is \nto health what Clinton's first budget is to frugality.\n But propaganda works. And, as the stupid poll indicates, \nmany Americans wrongly believe that profiteering doctors are the \nmajor cause of high medical costs.\n Of course doctors are well-compensated. They should be. \nAmericans now live longer than ever. But who is responsible for \nour longevity--lawyers, Congress, or the guy flipping burgers in \na McDonald's?\n And the doctors prolong our lives despite our having become \na nation of self-indulgent, lard-butted, TV-gaping couch \ncabbages.\n Ah, that is not something you heard President Clinton or \nSuper Spouse talk about during the campaign or since. But \ninstead of trying to turn the medical profession into a villain, \n \"Let us talk about medical care and one of the biggest \nproblems we have. That problem is you, my fellow American. Yes, \nyou, eating too much and eating the wrong foods; many of you \nguzzling too much hooch; still puffing away at $2.50 a pack; \ngetting your daily exercise by lumbering from the fridge to the \nmicrowave to the couch; doing dope and bringing crack babies into \nthe world; filling the big city emergency rooms with gunshot \nvictims; engaging in unsafe sex and catching a deadly disease \nwhile blaming the world for not finding an instant cure.\n \"You and your habits, not the doctors, are the single \nbiggest health problem in this country. If anything, it is \namazing that the docs keep you alive as long as they do.\n \"In fact, I don't understand how they can stand looking at \nyour blubbery bods all day.\n \"So as your president, I call upon you to stop whining and \nstart living cleanly. Now I must go get myself a triple cheesy-\ngreasy with double fries. Do as I say, not as I do.\"\n But for those who truly believe that doctors are overpaid, \nthere is another solution: Don't use them.\n That's right. You don't feel well? Then try one of those \nspine poppers, needle twirlers, or have Rev. Bubba lay his hands \nupon your head and declare you fit.\n Or there is the do-it-yourself approach. You have chest \npains? Then sit in front of a mirror, make a slit here, a slit \nthere, and pop in a couple of valves.\n You're going to have a kid? Why throw your money at that \noverpaid sawbones so he can buy a better car and a bigger house \nthan you will ever have (while paying more in taxes and \nmalpractice insurance than you will ever earn)?\n Just have the kid the old-fashioned way. Squat and do it. \nAnd if it survives, you can go to the library and find a book on \nhow to give it its shots.\n By the way, has anyone ever done a poll on how much \npollsters should earn?\n\n\nRoyko is a Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist for Tribune Media \nServices.\n\n____________________________________________________________________________\n\n", "I don't know if it causes the body any harm, but in the 23\nyears I've been teaching nine and ten years olds I've never had\none fall over from eating \"boogers\" which many kids do on a\nregular basis [when they think no one is looking . . .]\n\n", "I've read that exercise makes the heart pump more blood at a stroke, and\nthat it also makes the heart pumb slower, in order to make up for the\ngreater volume. My Internist, who diagnosed my AV block, slow heart rate\nand PVC's, told me something different. She says that heart rate is\nassociated with the electrical properties of the hear muscle, not its\nsize. Exercise lowers heart rate and increases stroke volume, but the\neffects are unrelated except for their common source. The AV block, she\nasserts, is another electrical effect, which is irreversable - even when\nexercise is dicontinued. PVC's are also common in runners. \n\nSo my EKG puts me in a class with trained athletes and also with heart\npatients. Isn't that strange, though? Are there any not-so-beneficial\naspects to athlete's heart? Is it all good?", "Hello , I think you are probaly right, in spite of the movement\nit is getting better each day. cheers", "\nThe best thing to do is leave it, it will work its own way out to the surface.\nAnything you stick up there to try and clean it is just going to push the wax\nup against your eardrum and pack it on there solid, thus impairing your\nhearing .", "I can not believe the way this thread on candida(yeast) has progressed.\nSteve Dyer and I have been exchanging words over the same topic in Sci. \nMed. Nutrition when he displayed his typical reserve and attacked a women \nposter for being treated by a liscenced physician for a disease that did \nnot exist. Calling this physician a quack was reprehensible Steve and I \nsee that you and some of the others are doing it here as well. \n\nLet me tell you who the quacks really are, these are the physicans who have \nno idea how the human body interacts with it's environment and how that \nbalance can be altered by diet and antibiotics. These are the physicians \nwho dismiss their patients with difficult symptomatology and make them go \nfrom doctor to doctor to find relief(like Elaine in Sci. Med. Nutrition) and \nthen when they find one that solves their problem, the rest start yelling \nquack. Could it just be professional jealousy? I couldn't help Elaine or Jon\nbut somebody else did. Could they know more than Me? No way, they must be a \nquack. \n\nI've been teaching a human nutrition course for Medical students for over ten \nyears now and guess who the most receptive students are? Those that were \nraised on farms and saw first-hand the effect of diet on the health of their \nfarm animals and those students who had made a dramatic diet change prior to \nentering medical school(switched to the vegan diet). Typically, this is \nabout 1/3 of my class of 90 students. Those not interested in nutrition \neither tune me out or just stop coming to class. That's okay because I \nknow that some of what I'm teaching is going to stick and there will be at \nleast a few \"enlightened\" physicians practicing in the U.S. It's really \ntoo bad that most U.S. medical schools don't cover nutrition because if \nthey did, candida would not be viewed as a non-disease by so many in the \nmedical profession.\n\nIn animal husbandry, an animal is reinnoculated with \"good\" bacteria after \nantibiotics are stopped. Medicine has decided that since humans do not \nhave a ruminant stomach, no such reinnoculation with \"good\" bacteria is \nneeded after coming off a braod spectrum antibiotic. Humans have all \nkinds of different organisms living in the GI system(mouth, stomach, small \nand large intestine), sinuses, vagina and on the skin. These are \nnonpathogenic because they do not cause disease in people unless the immune \nsystem is compromised. They are also called nonpathogens because unlike \nthe pathogenic organisms that cause human disease, they do not produce \ntoxins as they live out their merry existence in and on our body. But any of \nthese organisms will be considered pathogenic if it manages to take up \nresidence within the body. A poor mucus membrane barrier can let this \nhappen and vitamin A is mainly responsible for setting up this barrier.\nSteve got real upset with Elaine's doctor because he was using anti-fungals \nand vitamin A for her GI problems. If Steve really understoood what \nvitamin A does in the body, he would not(or at least should not) be calling \nElaine's doctor a quack.\n\nHere is a brief primer on yeast. Yeast infections, as they are commonly \ncalled, are not truely caused by yeasts. The most common organism responsible\nfor this type of infection is Candida albicans or Monilia which is actually a \nyeast-like fungus. An infection caused by this organism is called candidiasis.\nCandidiasis is a very rare occurance because, like an E. Coli infection, it \nrequires that the host immune system be severly depressed. \n\nCandida is frequently found on the skin and all of the mucous membranes of \nnormal healthy people and it rarely becomes a problem unless some predisposing\nfactor is present such as a high blood glucose level(diabetes) or an oral \ncourse of antibiotics has been used. In diabetics, their secretions contain \nmuch higher amounts of glucose. Candida, unlike bacteria, is very limited in \nit's food(fuel) selection. Without glucose, it can not grow, it just barely \nsurvives. If it gets access to a lot of glucose, it blooms and over rides \nthe other organisms living with it in the sinuses, GI tract or vagina. In \ndiabetics, skin lesions can also foster a good bloom site for these little \nbuggers. The bloom is usually just a minor irritant in most people but \nsome people do really develop a bad inflammatory process at the mucus \nmembrane or skin bloom site. Whether this is an allergic like reaction to \nthe candida or not isn't certain. When the bloom is in the vagina or on \nthe skin, it can be easliy seen and some doctors do then try to \"treat\" it.\nIf it's internal, only symptoms can be used and these symptoms are pretty \nnondiscript. \n\n\nCandida is kept in check in most people by the normal bacterial flora in \nthe sinuses, the GI tract(mouth, stomach and intestines) and in the \nvaginal tract which compete with it for food. The human immune system \nususally does not bother itself with these(nonpathogenic organisms) unless \nthey broach the mucus membrane \"barrier\". If they do, an inflammatory \nresponse will be set up. Most Americans are not getting enough vitamin A \nfrom their diets. About 30% of all American's die with less Vitamin A than \nthey were born with(U.S. autopsy studies). While this low level of vitamin \nA does not cause pathology(blindness) it does impair the mucus membrane \nbarrier system. This would then be a predisposing factor for a strong \ninflammatory response after a candida bloom. \n\nWhile diabetics can suffer from a candida \"bloom\" the most common cause of \nthis type of bloom is the use of broad spectrum antibiotics which \nknock down many different kinds of bacteria in the body and remove the main \ncompetition for candida as far as food is concerned. While drugs are \navailable to handle candida, many patients find that their doctor will not \nuse them unless there is evidence of a systemic infection. The toxicity of \nthe anti-fungal drugs does warrant some caution. But if the GI or sinus \ninflammation is suspected to be candida(and recent use of a broad spectrum \nantibiotic is the smoking gun), then anti-fungal use should be approrpriate \njust as the anti-fungal creams are an appropriate treatment for recurring \nvaginal yeast infections, in spite of what Mr. Steve Dyer says.\n\nBut even in patients being given the anti-fungals, the irritation caused by \nthe excessive candida bloom in the sinus, GI tract or the vagina tends to \nreturn after drug treatment is discontinued unless the underlying cause of \nthe problem is addressed(lack of a \"good\" bacterial flora in the body and/or \npoor mucus membrane barrier). Lactobacillus acidophilus is the most effective \ntherapy for candida overgrowth. From it's name, it is an acid loving \norganism and it sets up an acidic condition were it grows. Candida can not \ngrow very well in an acidic environment. In the vagina, L. acidophilius is \nthe predominate bacteria(unless you are hit with broad spectrum \nantibiotics). \n\nIn the GI system, the ano-rectal region seems to be a particularly good \nreservoir for candida and the use of pantyhose by many women creates a very \nfavorable environment around the rectum for transfer(through moisture and \nhumidity) of candida to the vaginal tract. One of the most effctive ways to \nminimmize this transfer is to wear undyed cotton underwear. \n\nIf the bloom occurs in the anal area, the burning, swelling, pain and even \nblood discharge make many patients think that they have hemorroids. If the \nbloom manages to move further up the GI tract, very diffuse symptomatology \noccurs(abdominal discomfort and blood in the stool). This positive stool \nfor occult blood is what sent Elaine to her family doctor in the first \nplace. After extensive testing, he told her that there was nothing wrong \nbut her gut still hurt. On to another doctor, and so on. Richard Kaplan \nhas told me throiugh e-mail that he considers occult blood tests in stool \nspecimens to be a waste of time and money because of the very large number of \nfalse positives(candida blooms guys?). If my gut hurt me on a constant \nbasis, I would want it fixed. Yes it's nice to know that I don't have \ncolon cancer but what then is causing my distress? When I finally find a \ndoctor who treats me and gets me 90% better, Steve Dyer calls him a quack.\n\nCandida prefers a slightly alkaline environment while bacteria \ntend to prefer a slightly acidic environment. The vagina becomes alkaline \nduring a woman's period and this is often when candida blooms in the vagina. \nVinegar and water douches are the best way of dealing with vaginal \nproblems. Many women have also gotten relief from the introduction of \nLactobacillus directly into the vaginal tract(I would want to be sure of \nthe purity of the product before trying this). My wife had this vagina \nproblem after going on birth control pills and searched for over a year \nuntil she found a gynocologist who solved the problem rather than just writting \nscripts for anti-fungal creams. This was a woman gynocologist who had had \nthe same problem(recurring vaginal yeast infections). This M.D. did some \ndigging and came up with an acetic acid and L. Acidophilis douche which she \nused in your office to keep it sterile. After three treatments, sex \nreturned to our marraige. I have often wondered what an M.D. with chronic \nGI distress or sinus problems would do about the problem that he tells his \npatients is a non-existent syndrome.\n\nThe nonpathogenic bacteria L. acidophilus is an acid producing bacteria \nwhich is the most common bacteria found in the vaginal tract of healthy women. \nIf taken orally, it can also become a major bacteria in the gut. Through \naresol sprays, it has also been used to innoculate the sinus membranes.\nBut before this innoculation occurs, the mucus membrane barrier system \nneeds to be strengthened. This is accomplished by vitamin A, vitamin C and \nsome of the B-complex vitamins. Diet surveys repeatedly show that Americans \nare not getting enough B6 and folate. These are probably the segement of \nthe population that will have the greatest problem with this non-existent \ndisorder(candida blooms after antibiotic therapy).\n \nSome of the above material was obtained from \"Natural Healing\" by Mark \nBricklin, Published by Rodale press, as well as notes from my human \nnutrition course. I will be posting a discussion of vitamin A sometime in \nthe future, along with reference citings to point out the extremely \nimportant role that vitamin A plays in the mucus membrane defense system in \nthe body and why vitamin A should be effective in dealing with candida \nblooms. Another effective dietary treatment is to restrict carbohydrate \nintake during the treatment phase, this is especially important if the GI \nsystem is involved. If candida can not get glucose, it's not going to out \ngrow the bacteria and you then give bacteria, which can use amino acids and \nfatty acids for energy, a chance to take over and keep the candida in check \nonce carbohydrate is returned to the gut.\n\nIf Steve and some of the other nay-sayers want to jump all over this post, \nfine. I jumped all over Steve in Sci. Med. Nutrition because he verbably \naccosted a poster who was seeking advice about her doctor's use of vitamin \nA and anti-fungals for a candida bloom in her gut. People seeking advice \nfrom newsnet should not be treated this way. Those of us giving of our \ntime and knowledge can slug it out to our heart's content. If you saved \nyour venom for me Steve and left the helpless posters who are timidly \nseeking help alone, I wouldn't have a problem with your behavior. \n \nMartin Banschbach, Ph.D.\nProfessor of Biochemistry and Chairman\nDepartment of Biochemistry and Microbiology\nOSU College of Osteopathic Medicine\n1111 West 17th St.\nTulsa, Ok. 74107", "I experienced a sudden numbness in my left arm this morning. Just after\nI completed my 4th set of deep squats. Today was my weight training\nday and I was just beginning my routine. All of a sudden at the end of\nthe 4th set my arm felt like it had gone to sleep. It was cold, turned pale,\nand lost 60% of its strength. The weight I used for squats wasn't that\nheavy, I was working hard but not at 100% effort. I waited for a few \nminutes, trying to shake the arm back to life and then continued with\nchest exercises (flyes) with lighter dumbells than I normally use. But\nI dropped the left dumbell during the first set, and experienced continued\narm weakness into the second. So I quit training and decided not to do my\nusual hour on the ski machine either. I'll take it easy for the rest of\nthe day.\n\nMy arm is *still* somewhat numb and significantly weaker than normal --\nmy hand still tingles a bit down to the thumb. Color has returned to normal\nand it is no longer cold. \n\nHorrid thoughts of chunks of plaque blocking a major artery course through\nmy brain. I'm 34, vegetarian, and pretty fit from my daily exercise\nregimen. So that can't be it. Could a pinched nerve from the bar\ncause these symptoms (I hope)?\n\nHas this happened to anyone else?\nNothing like this has ever happened to me before. Does it come with age?\n\nThanks,\nTom", "If you could not tell which one had MSG, why restaurants bother to\nuse it at all? \n\nIf you can taste the difference, psychological reaction might play a role.\n\nThe fact is, MSG is part of natural substance. Everyone, I mean EVERYONE,\nconsumes certain amount of MSG every day through regular diet without\nthe synthesized MSG additive.\n\nChinese, and many other Asians (Japanese, Koreans, etc) have used\nMSG as flavor enhancer for two thousand years. Do you believe that\nthey knew how to make MSG from chemical processes? Not. They just\nextracted it from natural food such sea food and meat broth.\n\nBaring MSG is just like baring sugar which many people react to.", "I don't know much and in fact, have asked questions here\nmyself. My doctor told me that Paxil is a \"cleaner\" SRI in that\nit produces fewer side effects. As to a comparison between\nZoloft and Prozac, I'm not able to remember what he said about\nthe differences between those two drugs. Sorry\n", "\nClimbers regard 8000 metres and up as \"The Death Zone\". Even on 100% Oxygen,\nyou are slowly dying. At 8848m (Everest), most climbers spend only a short\nperiod of time before descending. I've been above 8000 once. Descending as\nlittle as 300m feels like walking into a jungle, the air is so thick. Everest\nin winter without oxygen, no support party (Alpine style). That is the\n\"ultimate challenge\" (or is it solo?)", "In julkunen@messi.uku.fi (Antero\n\n\nIt's got potential. Instead of *.chemistry, how about splitting the\nclassification into *.biochemistry (which are probably the topics\nyou're thinking of) and *.pharmaceutical (which otherwise might end up\nin *.(bio)chemistry)?\n\n(This is separate from the issue of whether there is sufficient potential\nnews volume to support either or both groups.)\n\nI'll add 'em to my medical/health newsgroup wish list (which I'm looking\nforward to posting and discussing -- but not for another 10 days or so).", "I posted this to sci.psychology on April 3, and after seeing\nyour post here on panice disorder thought it would be\nrelevant.\n\n-----\n\nMy research indicates that two schools of thought exist.\nthe literature promoting medication says it's the superior\ntreatment. Not surprisingly, literature promoting cognitive\ntherapy also claims to be superior.\n\nWhat are the facts? Early in my research I didn't have a\nbias towards either medication or cognitive therapy. I\nwas interested in a treatment that worked. After reading\njournals published after 1986, the cognitive therapy camp\nclaims a higher success rate (approx 80%), a lower drop-out\nrate, and no side effects associated with medication.\n\nLars-Goran Ost published an excellent article titled\n\"Applied Relaxation: Description of a coping technique and\na review of controlled studies.\" This is from Behav. Res. Ther.,\nvol. 25, no. 5, pp. 397-409, 1987. The article provides\ninstructions on how to perform applied relaxation (AR).\nBriefly, you start with two 15 minute sessions daily, and\nprogress in 8-12 weeks to performing 10-15 thirty second sessions\ndaily.\n\nI'll snail mail this article to anyone interested (USA only please;\nInternational please pay for postage).", "Hello, I am not sure if this is the right conference to ask this\nquestion, however, Here I go.. I am a commercial fisherman and I \nfell about 3 weeks ago down into the hold of the boat and broke or\ncracked a rib and wrenched and bruised my back and left arm.\n My question, I have been to a doctor and was told that it was \nbest to do nothing and it would heal up with no long term effect, and \nindeed I am about 60 % better, however, the work I do is very \nhard and I am still not able to go back to work. The thing that worries me\nis the movement or \"clunking\" I feel and hear back there when I move \ncertain ways... I heard some one talking about the rib they broke \nyears ago and that it still bothers them.ÿ. any opinions?\nthanx and cheers", "Jim Haynes wants to know the following is a scam....\n\n There's a chiropractor who has a stand in the middle of a shopping\n mall, offering free examinations. Part of the process involves a\n multiple-jointed sensor arm and a computer that says in a computer-\n sounding voice \"digitize left PSIS\" \"digitize right PSIS\" \"digitize\n C7\" \"please stand with spine in neutral position\". I'm wondering\n whether this doesn't really measure anything and the computer voice\n is to impress the victims, or whether it is measuring something\n that chiropractors think is useful to measure.\n\nEarth to sci.med....If it looks like a duck...and quacks like a duck......\n\nThis is a TOTAL scam. Since the beginning of chiropraxis, the chiropractor has \ntried to sell The Subluxation as The Problem and then sell themselves and\ntheir Adjustments as The Solution. The Chiropractic Subluxation is a delusional \ndiagnosis and the Adjustments of Subluxations by extension constitute a \ndelusional medicine.\n\nThe wide spectrum of chiropractic Techniques ALL have their own methods for \ndetecting Spinal Demons and unique methodolgies for Excorcizing Them. The \ncomputer approach is an attempt to 'sell with science' but this device is \nnothing more than a 'high-tech' Subluxation Detector.....and in the end...\nAMAZINGLY...it will show the potential 'patient' to suffer from...VS......\nVertebral Subluxation....The Silent Killer!", "From my reading of the popular, and scientific, literature, I think that the\nbenzopyrene-from-burned-fat problem is probably real but very small compared to\nother kinds of risks. (This type of problem also occurs with stove-top pan\ngrilling.) One possible remedy I have read about is to take some vitamin C with your meal of barbecue (or bacon, e.g.). This MAY make sense because vit. C\nis an antioxidant which could counteract the adverse affect of some of the \nchemicals in question. Bon Apetit! \n", "\n\tI was kind of half watching Street Stories last night\n\tand one of the segments was about this doctor in\n\tS.F. who provides a service of investigating treatment\n\tfor various diseases. I'm pretty sure his name is\n\tDr. Mark Renniger (sp?) or close to that. \n\tDid anyone else watch this? I'd like to get his\n\tcorrect name and address/phone number if possible.\n\tThanks.\n", "\n\nTry peeling the skin back at the base of your other fingernails\n(not too hard, now, don't want to hurt yourself). You'll find\nnice little lunulas there if you can peel it back enough. \n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "I am looking for a rat cell line of adrenal gland / cortical cell -type. I \nhave been looking at ATCC without success and would very much appreciate any \nhelp.\n\nThank you for reading this.\n\nChristophe Roos\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\nInstitute of Biotechnology Fax: +358 0 4346028\nPOBox 45, Valimotie 7 E-mail: Christophe.Roos@Helsinki.Fi\nUniversity of Helsinki X-400: /G=Christophe/S=Roos\nSF-00014 Finland /O=Helsinki/A=fumail/C=Fi", "\nIndeed so; it's at the extreme limit of what is humanly possible. It is\npossible only because Mount Everest is at a fairly low latitude: there\nis a slight equatorial bulge in the atmosphere -- beyond what is induced\nby the Earth's rotation -- thanks to the overall circulation pattern of\nthe atmosphere (air cools at poles and descends, flowing back to equator\nwhere it is warmed and rises), and this helps just enough to make Everest-\nwithout-oxygen feasible. Only just feasible, mind you: the guys who did\nit reported hallucinations and other indications of oxygen starvation,\nand probably incurred some permanent brain damage.", "\nIn the \"sex ed\" portion of the high school \"health\" course I took\nin 1984, it was impressed that the only 100% positive way to *not*\nget pregnant was to *not* have sex.\n\nOther methods of contraception were discussed, in the framework of\na chart which showed both the _expected_ failure rate (theoretical,\nassumes no mistakes) and the _actual_ failure rate (based on research).\nTop of the chart was something like this:\n\n\n Method Expected Actual \n ------ Failure Rate Failure Rate\n Abstinence 0% 0% \n\n\nAnd NFP (Natural Family Planning) was on the bottom. The teacher even\nsaid, \"I've had some students tell me that they can't use anything for\nbirth control because they're Catholic. Well, if you're not married and\nyou're a practicing Catholic, the *top* of the list is your slot, not \nthe *bottom*. Even if you're not religious, the top of the list is\nsafest.\"\n\nYes, this was a public school and after Dr Koop's \"failing abstinence,\nuse a condom\" statement on the prevention of AIDS.\n\n-jen\n\n-- ", "\n\nUmm, weren't you the one objecting to someone who is a \"licensed\nphysician\" being called a quack? Or is it just that being a licensed\nphysician is a good defense against charges of quackery when the\nphysician agrees with your system of beliefs?\n\n\nActually, I almost never use the term quack. When I discuss\n\"systemic yeast syndrome\", however, I always point out that\nmainstream medicine views this as a quack diagnosis (and I agree\nwith that characterization).\n\n\nReally? I bet virtually everyone reading these posts understands what\nSteve Dyer, Gordon Banks, and I am implying when we have talked about\nsystemic yeast syndrome as a quack diagnosis. Would you prefer the\nword \"charlatan\"? (I don't happen to think that all quacks are\ncharlatans since I suspect that some believe in the \"diseases\" they\nare diagnosing.)\n\n\nWhy? Is there some reason why you feel that it shouldn't be pointed out\nin SCI.med that there is no convincing empirical evidence to support the \nexistence of systemic yeast syndrome?", "\n\n Heck, I seem to feel like that *every* time I eat out. Including \nin the cafeteria at work. About half the time, the headache intensifies \nuntil nothing will make it go away except throwing up. Ick.\n\n As you might imagine, I don't eat out a lot. I guess my tolerance \nfor food additives has plummeted since I switched to eating mostly \nsteamed veggies. They're easy to fix, that's all.\n\n I won't even mention what happened the last time I ate corned \nbeef. (Oops. Too late.)\n", "\nDo you believe that any quacks exist? How about quack diagnoses? Is\nbeing a \"licensed physician\" enough to guarantee that someone is not\na quack, or is it just that even if a licensed physician is a quack,\nother people shouldn't say so? Can you give an example of a\ncommonly diagnosed ailment that you think is a quack diagnosis,\nor have we gotten to the point in civilization where we no longer\nneed to worry about unscrupulous \"healers\" taking advantage of\npeople.", "Hi:\n\nI went to the orthopedist on Tuesday. He diagnosed me as having\n\"intersection syndrome\". He prescribed Feldene for me. I want\nto know more about the disease and the drug.\n\nThanks\n", "\nI can't answer most of your questions, but I've seen it happen in \nfamily members who are being treated with radiation and/or chemotherapy.\nJory Graham published a cookbook many years ago (in cooperation with \nthe American Cancer Society, I think) called \"Something has to taste\ngood\" (as I recall).\n\nThe cookbook was just what we needed several times when favorite foods\nsuddenly became \"yech\".", "\n\n\nI'm addicted to chocolate myself.", "From: harelb@math.cornell.edu (misc.activism.progressive co-moderator)\nSubject: FCUS/HEALTH: How U.S. Compares....**PAID** Maternity leave...\n\nFCUS/HEALTH: How U.S. Compares....**PAID** Maternity leave...\n\n=================================================================== \nDuration of nationally provided PAID maternity leave in weeks, 1988 \n=================================================================== \n\n============================================ \nCOUNTRY WEEKS COUNTRY WEEKS \n============================================ \nUnited Kingdom 40 Germany 14 \nFinland 38 Ireland 14 \nDenmark 28 Japan 14 \nFrance 16 28 Spain 14 \nItaly 22 Netherlands 12 \nNorway 20 Sweden 12 \nCanada 17-18 Switzerland 8-12 \nAustria 16 United States 0 \nBelgium 14 \n\nSource: International Labor Organization, \"Work and Family: The Child Care \nChallenge,\" Conditions of Work Digest, vol. 7, February 1988. \n\n******************************************************************\nFrom page 11 of: \n\n - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - \n_We're Number One, Where America Stands -- and Falls -- in the New \nWorld Order_ by Andrew L Shapiro. \n\nNew York, May 1992, Vintage Books, a division of Random House. \n$10 paperback. ISBN 0-679-73893-2 \n - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - \n[Transcribed by jhwoodar@well.sf.ca.us (Joe Woodard)] \n\n ``America is becoming a land of private greed and public squalor. \n This book is an indispensable road map through the wreckage. The \n facts it reveals will startle you. They may depress you. But \n ideally they'll fire you up to help rebuild this nation.'' ", "I've recently listened to a tape by Dr. Stanislaw Burzynski, in which he \nclaims to have discovered a series naturally occuring peptides with anti-\ncancer properties that he names antineoplastons. Burzynski says that his \nwork has met with hostility in the United States, despite the favorable \nresponses of his subjects during clinical trials.\n\nWhat is the generally accepted opinion of Dr. Burzynski's research? He \npaints himself as a lone researcher with a new breakthrough battling an \nintolerant medical establishment, but I have no basis from which to judge \nhis claims. Two weeks ago, however, I read that the NIH's Department of \nAlternative Medicine has decided to focus their attention on Burzynski's \nwork. Their budget is so small that I imagine they wouldn't investigate a \ntreatment that didn't seem promising.\n\nAny opinions on Burzynski's antineoplastons or information about the current \nstatus of his research would be appreciated.\n", "\n\nUnfortunately, Hep B infection can eventuate in chronic hepatitis and\nsubsequent cirrhosis. Although not many patients with Hep B go on to\nchronic hepatitis, it does still occur in a good number (20%?) and is\nsomething to keep in mind. Hepatitis C (was: non-A, non-B Hep) much\nmore frequently leads to chronic hep and cirrhosis. There is also an\nautimmune chronic hepatitis that affects mostly younger women which\nalso leads to cirrhosis. \n\nOf course, cirrhosis is a most unkind disease. The most dangerous\neffects relate to portal hypertension and loss of liver function. \nPatients develop life-threatening variceal bleeds and hepatic comas,\namong many other problems, as a result of disturbances in hepatic\ncirculation. Less ominously, they can exhibit the effects of\nhyperestrogenemia which often characterize patients with cirrhosis. \nThese effects include telangiactasias (small red skin lesions) and, in\nmen, gynecomastia (breast development). The only real treatment for\ncirrhosis is liver transplant.\n\nKeep in mind that cirrhosis is not expected, at least statistically, in\nyour friend's case. Nevertheless you might want to bring up the\nsubject of chronic disease and cirrhosis with the doctor. Hopefully he\nor she can then carefully explain these sequelae of Hep B infection to\nyou, and offer you support.", "\nHis _heart_? This jerk doesn't have a heart, and it beats me why you're\napologizing for him. In my book, behavior like this is unprofessional,\ninexcusable, and beyond the pale. If he's overworked, it's because he's too\nbusy raking in the bucks. More likely, he just likes to push women around.\nI'd fire the s.o.b., and get myself another doctor.\n", "My wife and I are in the process of selecting a pediatrician for our\nfirst child (due June 15th). We interviewed a young doctor last week\nand were very impressed with her. However, I discovered that she is\nactually not an Medical Doctor (M.D.) but rather a \"Doctor of \nOsteopathy\" (D.O.). What's the difference? I believe the pediatrician\n*I* went to for many years was a D.O. and he didn't seem different from\nany other doctor I've seen over the years.\n\nMy dictionary says that osteopathy is \"a medical therapy that emphasizes\nmanipulative techniques for correcting somatic abnormalities thought\nto cause disease and inhibit recovery.\"\n\nJeez, this sounds like chiropractic. I remember getting shots and\nmedicine from *my* pediatrician D.O., and don't remember any \n\"manipulative techniques\". Perhaps someone could enlighten me as to\nthe real, practical difference between an M.D. and a D.O. Also, I'm\ninteresting in hearing any opinions on choosing a pediatrician who\nfollows one or the other medical philosophy.\n\nReaders of sci.med: Please respond directly to sbrenner@attmail.com;\nI do not read this group regularly and probably won't see your response\nif you just post it here. Sorry for the cross-posting, but I'm hoping\nthere's some expertise here.\n\na T d H v A a N n K c S e", "I use a ZYGON Mind Machine as bought in the USA last year. Although\nit's no wonder cure for what ail's you. It is however VERY good at\nstopping you thinking!\n\nSound strange? Well suppose you're tired and want to go to bed/sleep.\nBUT your head is full of niggling problems to resolve, you lay in the\nbed, and quickly they all come to the surface, churning around from one\nunresolved thing to the next and then back again. Been there, bought\nthe t-shirt?\n\nI slip on the Zygon and select a soothing pattern of light & sound, and\nquickly I just can't concentrate on the previous stuff. Your brain's\ncache kinda get's flushed, and you start on a whole new set of stuff.\n\nA useful addition, is the facility to feed the output of a tape player\nor CD through the box, I use New Age elevator muzak to enhance the\noverall effect.\n\nDEFFO better than a pill.\n\nCheers Nigel", "\nMexico City, Bogota, La Paz?\n\n\n---\n\nAn unconventional remedy that you might try for altitude sickness in the Andes is\nchewing coca leaves or taking teas made from coca leaves. You might notice that\nmany of the natives have wads in their mouths... the tea can be obtained in S.\nAmerican pharmacies. This remedy alleviates some of the lightheadedness and\ndizziness - but don't try to jog with it. I've tried this when travelling and\nhiking in Peru and Ecuador. The amount of cocaine you would ingest are too minute\nto cause any highs...", "\n\nI saw this a few years ago on \"Tomorrow's World\" (low-brow BBC\ntechnology news program). The patient is lowered into a bath of\nde-ionized water and carefully positioned. High intensity pressure\nwaves are generated by an electric spark in the water (you don't get\nelectrocuted because de-ionised water does not conduct). These waves are\nfocused on the kidneys by a parabolic reflector and cause the stone to\nbreak up. This is completely painless.\n\nOf course, you then have to get these little bits of gravel through\nthe urethra. Ouch!\n\nPaul.\n", "\nYou asked a question, and now you don't want people to answer? I believe\na legitimate question was asked. Why shouldn't cost and safety be used\n(at least in part) to determine legality?\n\nI'd like to see you *prove* that drug legalization is an idiotic idea.\nSeems to me the evidence from Great Britain is pretty convincing that \ndrug legalization is a good idea. Even such a noted conservative as\nWilliam F. Buckley supports it.\n\nYour examples (except for prostitution) fail miserably to meet both criteria\n(safer AND cheaper). Obviously, killing people is not \"safe\". As for\nprostitution, why shouldn't it be legal?\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\n...Dale Cook \"Any town having more churches than bars has a serious\n social problem.\" ---Edward Abbey\nThe opinions are mine only (i.e., they are NOT my employer's)", "\n\nPDR and CPS are good places to starts.\n\ndo a medline search... lots of interesting debates going on (remember\nwhen Prozac was impicated in suicidal behaviour?)", "\n\tCould you describe in more detail the above procedure? I've never\nheard about it.\n\tAnd yes, if they pierced you with the needles you probably should have\nprotested. \n\neuclid\n ", "\nReflex sympathetic dystrophy. I'm sure there's an FAQ, as I have\nmade at least 10 answers to questions on it in the last year or so.\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "\nI too have had premature ventricular heartbeat, starting in 1974. (These \nare not, by the way, \"extra\" heartbeats. This is how they feel, and \nthis is how I described them initially to the doctor, but they're \nactually *premature* heartbeats. I would sometimes experience a lapse \nafter one of these that went on for a suffocatingly long period of time, \nmaking me wonder if my heart were ever going to beat again.) \n\nI had them persistently for eighteen years. Then I went on a low-fat \ndiet, and they just stopped. I haven't had a single episode of PVH \nfor almost two years. I know: correlation does not imply causation. \nThis is just FWIW. ", "ANP is secreted by the atria in response to increases in fluid volume\nand acts to facilitate sodium and water excretion from the kidneys.\nCan someone tell me the molecular mechanism by which this is done?\n\nPlease email your response\n\nThanks\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n Po'g Mo Thon ", "I am sorry to once again bother those of you on this newsgroup. \nIf you have any suggestions as to where I might find out about the subject\nof this letter (the origin of Morphine, ie. who first isolsted it, and why\nhe/she attempted such an experiment). Once agian any suggestion would be\nappreciated.\n\tCSH\np.s. My instructer insists that I get 4 rescources from this newsgroup, so\nplease send me and info you think may be helpful. Facts that you know,\nbut don't know what book they're from are ok.\nATTENTION: If you do NOT like seeing letters such as this one on your\nnewsgroup direct all complaints to my instructor at \n\n\n--\n \"Kilimanjaro is a pretty tricky climb. Most of it's up, until you reach\nthe very, very top, and then it tends to slope away rather sharply.\"\n\t\t\t\t\tSir George Head, OBE (JC)", "\nWell, that post was not that accurate. People with early life hernias\nare felt to have a congenital sack that promotes the formation of hernias.\nThe hernias of later life may be more associated with chronic straining. \nHowever, the risk of damage to the intestine without an operation is \nhigh enough that it ought to be repaired. The risk of cancer is probably\nno higher than the general population, but since you are near 40, it would\nbe sensible to have some sort of cancer screening, such as a flexible\nsigmoidoscopy. Sorry for the misleading info.", "\n\n\n\n\n\n As far as I can see if your obstetrition has an ultrasound in his rooms\nand is expirienced its use and interpretation, he should be just as\ncapable of reading it as any radiologist. All doctors are \"qualified\" to\nread x-rays, u/s, ct scans etc. it is just that a radiologist does nothing\nelse, and thus, is only better at reading them because of all this time\nspent doing this (skill in reading x-rays etc. just comes from plenty of\npractice). If your obstetrition reads heaps of obstetric ultrasounds he\nshould be able to pick up any abnormalities that can be demonstrated by\nthis technique.\n\n- Paul.\n\n", "\n\nThe flushing is due to vascular dilation, part of a migraine attack.\nSome people event get puffy and swollen. As long as you are careful\nyou can see well enough to avoid getting hit in the face or eye by\nthe ball, migraine will not hurt your health.\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "I have between 15 and 25 nosebleeds each week, as a result of a genetic\npredisposition to weak capillary walls (Osler-Weber-Rendu). Fortunately,\neach nosebleed is of short duration.\n\nDoes anyone know of any method to reduce this frequency? My younger brothers\neach tried a skin transplant (thigh to nose lining), but their nosebleeds\nsoon returned. I've seen a reference to an herb called Rutin that is\nsupposed to help, and I'd like to hear of experiences with it, or other\ntechniques.", "A friend was recently admitted to North Carolina Memorial Hospital\nbecause of suspected meningitis. Serious business. They wanted to do\na lumbar puncture, for which a CT scan is a prerequisite.\n\nI arrived in her hospital room about an hour after she had returned\nfrom the CT. She was in tears. Evidently the technicians in the CT\nlab had been very unpleasant to her.\n\nTo begin with, they put her on the apparatus that moves you into the\nmachine itself, and just pushed a button to slide her straight into the\nmachine, without any explanation. Imagine this. You worried you may\nhave a deadly disease, and next thing you know you're being put into\nthis big scary machine, without a word of explanation about what is\ngoing to happen to you. I believe this is inexcusable. She waved her\nhand as if to say what are you doing to me, and they responded with\nannoyance and anger. Next they inserted, or tried to insert, an IV\ncatheter. Apparently she has a lot of trouble with these and complained\nof the pain. The technician just stopped and fixed her with a glare\nwithout any words of explanation.\n\nIs there anything I can do about these pigs ?\n\nI realize that these technicians do this sort of job day in and day\nout. And that some patients can be very irritating and uncooperative.\nBut this is simply no excuse. Their purpose for existing is to help\nsick people, and there is no excuse for this sort of behavior.\nFortunately my friend is fine. But I imagine a large proportion of the\npeople who get CT scans are not fine at all. They have cancer and that\nsort of thing. They don't need this kind of shit.\n\nAlso, since I named the hospital involved, I should also point out that\nneither she nor I have any complaints about the competence or compassion\nof any of the other personnel at NCMH.", "\nInteresting statements, simply because I have been told otherwise. I'm\ncertainly not questioning Steve's claims, as for one I am not a doctor, and I\nagree that foods don't bring on the recurrence of Crohn's. But inflammation\ncan be either mildly or DRASTICALLY enhanced due to food.\n\nHaving had one major obstruction resulting in resection (is that a good enough\ncaveat :-), I was told that a *LOW RESIDUE* diet is called for. Basically,\nthe idea is that if there is inflammation of the gut (which may not be\nrealized by the patient), any residue in the system can be caught in the folds\nof inflammation and constantly irritate, thus exacerbating the problem.\nTherefore, anything that doesn't digest completely by the point of common\ninflammation should be avoided. With what I've been told is typical Crohn's,\nof the terminal ileum, my diet should be low residue, consisting of:\n\nCompletely out - never again - items:\n\to corn (kernel husk doesn't digest ... most of us know this :-)\n\to popcorn (same)\n\to dried (dehydrated) fruit and fruit skins\n\to nuts (Very tough when it comes to giving up some fudge :-)\n\nDiscouraged greatly:\n\to raw vegetables (too fibrous)\n\to wheat and raw grain breads\n\to exotic lettuce (iceberg is ok since it's apparently mostly water)\n\to greens (turnip, mustard, kale, etc...)\n\to little seeds, like sesame (try getting an Arby's without it!)\n\to long grain and wild rice (husky)\n\to beans (you'll generate enough gas alone without them!)\n\to BASICALLY anything that requires heavy digestive processing\n\nI was told that the more processed the food the better! (rather ironic in this\nday and age). The whole point is PREVENTATIVE ... you want to give your\nsystem as little chance to inflame as possible. I was told that among the\nNUMEROUS things that were heavily discouraged (I only listed a few), to try\nthe ones I wanted and see how I felt. If it's bad, don't do it again!\nRemember though that this was while I was in remission. For Veggies: cook the\ndaylights out of them. I prefer steaming ... I think it's cooks more\nthoroughly - you're mileage may vary.\n\nAs with anything else, CHECK WITH YOUR DOCTOR. Don't just take my word. But\nthis is the info I've been given, and it may be a starting point for\ndiscussion. Good luck!\n\n-Spenser\n\n", "\nMorphine or demerol is about the only effective way of stopping pain\nthat severe. Obviously, she'll need a prescription to get such drugs.\nCan't she go to the county hospital or something?\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "This is to followup my previous reply on this topic, which it has been\npointed out to me might have been dangerously misleading in two spots.\n\n1. I stated that psychotherapy (meaning talking therapy and so on) was used \n to treat Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, which though sometimes true is \n misleading. It is not often found effective, particularly by itself.\n Primary treatment today usually consists at least in part of drug\n therapy. The most current theories of this condition attribute \n it to more to biological causes than psychological, in places where this\n distinction becomes important.\n\n2. I mentioned that the DSM-IIIR mentions 'impulses' as a possible \n\tdiagnostic marker. However, this might look like something\n\tpeople associate with psychotic conditions, uncontrollable or\n\tunpredictable behaviors, which is NOT the case with OCD. \n\tOne of the diagnostic criteria of OCD is that the individual\n\tcan and does suppress some of their 'impulses,' although they\n\tare an unending source of anxiety. \n\tThe obsessive thoughts and ritualistic actions usually associated with \n\tOCD are most frequently very mundane and predictable, closer to\n\ta superstitious nature than a dangerous nature for the most part.\n\n\tSome references (one non-technical and several technical)\n\tthat someone was kind enough to supply for me\n\tbut was unable to post themself :\n\n\n\t(technical refs) :\n\n\n\n\n\n\tAnd thanks very much to those who supplied constructive \n\tcriticism to my first post on OCD. I hope this helps clarify\n\tthe parts that were misleading.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\tkind regards,", "{Sorry, Harel et al, but our doctors and most hospitals are still\nprivate in Canada as well as in much of Western Europe.}\n\n\nWrong. In better EC countries that use pure (but public) health\ninsurance (like we use in Canada) rather than self-enclosed HMO-like\nsocialized medicine, 30% of our costs comes from private supplementary\ninsurance and/or copayments. France Magazine's Summer 1992 edition\nhas a fantastic presentation of their basic insurance coverage,\nincluding a sample chart of copayment percentages. For 1-30 days,\nyou're covered for 80% of the public hospital rate, 100% afterward.\nWith extra private insurance, you can get into a private hospital and\nbe covered for any differences beyond the public hospital rate. The\npublic insurance covers 100% beyond 30 days, or the same cash amount\nfor a private hospital and the difference is paid out-of-pocket or\naccording to your supplementary private insurance. Over 2/3rds of\nFrench have some form of extra private insurance. So, 30% of health\ncosts in Europe are out of private funds and not gleaned from other\ntaxes. The GDP figures are combined public and private expenditures\nfor total outlay using the same methods that yield the 13-14% figure\nfor the U.S.\n\nThat the French had deductibles and copayments in their insurance fund\nis to their credit ... I am in the minority for advocating such back\nin Canada (to make the Canadian insurance look more like real health\ninsurance -- which actually it is). The new Reform Party, a breakoff\nof traditionalists from the Conservatives with a mildly \"libertarian\"\nfaction, hold our public health insurance as an untouchable but that\njust a few people have to be reminded that it's not free (the average\nCanadian/European is more fiscally naive than their American\ncounterparts on issues like these).\n\nI'm one of the few people who favour copayments (forget about\nleftists, even our conservatives attack me for it on the Canadian\nnewsgroups) to make it look more like real insurance, 'cos the 100%\ninsurance payment is hidden (unlike in France) and if you didn't know\nit, you'd believe it actually is socialized medicine (American\nconservatives/libertarians and Canadian leftists are the only ones who\nseriously call it that). Canadians aren't worried about the\nAmericans, who spend 14%; we're worried about the French and Germans\nwho spend 7% to our 9% ... so the insurance is looking at things that\nshouldn't be paid for out of general funds like physicals for\ninsurance policies, sick notes, electrolysis, etc. The reason that\nthe Canadian health insurance hasn't spiralled out of control despite\nbeing open and universal is that unlike Americans, there is no urge to\nspend all of your benefits' worth, and more if you can ... we're a\ndifferent culture.\n\n\n\"Managed Care\" relies on HMO's, which are unknown in most western\nnations that use only public health insurance like Canada, France\nand Germany (I'm Canadian, and my German father-in-law-to-be says\nof HMO/NHS approaches, \"We left that behind with East Germany!\").\nSure, HMO/NHS controls costs because you have managers strangling\ndoctors with budget strings.\n\nIn Canada, we use the public health insurance approach as in France\nand Germany, with all private doctors and both private and public\nhospitals. It is all pure insurance without HMO's. The divisions\nare different, with the Germans using a couple hundred interlinked\n\"sickness funds\" over a century old while Canada divides by their\nprovinces (who run the insurance fund and set local fees with the\ndoctors monopoly; federal funds cover the fees disbursed.)\n\nWith such an open-ended system, it's no surprise that Canada is #2 to\nthe U.S. in costs; all-insurance is the most expensive way to go. The\nFrench and Germans use the same approach but have larger populations\nin more compact geography to improve scales of economy.\n\ngld", "\n Nationwide, the immunization rate among toddlers is about 50%, but\n it is reportedly as low as 10% in some inner-city neighborhoods.\n I bet more than 10% kids living in such neighborhoods are already \n covered by Medicaid.\n\n Here in Massachussets, we have had a universal immunization program,\n the kind of Clinton seems to be proposing, for many years (two decades?).\n Mass' immunization rate is 65%. What about the other 35%? I guess\n some parents are indeed too ignorant or too lazy , or simply do not \n care. \n\n\n ???\n\n\n-- \n------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDisclaimer: Opinions expressed are mine, not my employer's.", "[reply to aldridge@netcom.com (Jacquelin Aldridge)]\n \n \nThe acquisition of scientific knowledge is completely scientific. The\napplication of that knowledge in individual cases may be more art than\nscience.\n \n \nCertainly we don't have all the answers. The question is, what is the\nmost reliable means of acquiring further medical knowledge? The\nscientific method has proven itself to be reliable. The *only* reason\nalternative therapies are shunned by physicians is that their\npractitioners refuse to submit their theories to rigorous scientific\nscrutiny, insisting that \"tradition\" or anecdotal evidence are\nsufficient. These have been shown many times in the past to be very\nunreliable ways of acquiring reliable knowledge. Crook's ideas have\nnever been backed up by scientific evidence. His unwillingness to do\ngood science makes the rest of us doubt the veracity of his contentions.", "\n\nMedical school ? Like your fellow Austrian Dr. Mengele ??\n\nJosh", "A good source of information on Burzynski's method is in *The Cancer Industry*\nby pulitzer-prize nominee Ralph Moss. Also, a non-profit organization called\n\"People Against Cancer,\" which was formed for the purpose of allowing cancer\npatients to access information regarding cancer therapies not endorsed by the\ncancer industry, but which have shown highly promising results (all of which\nare non-toxic). Anyone interested in cancer therapy should contact this organi-\nzation ASAP: People Against Cancer\n PO Box 10\n Otho IA 50569-0010\n(515)972-4444\nFAX (515)972-4415\n\n\npeace", "\nWhere did you read this? I don't think this is true. I think most\nmedical treatments are based on science, although it is difficult\nto prove anything with certitude. It is true that there are some\nthings that have just been found \"to work\", but we have no good\nexplanation for why. But almost everything does have a scientific\nrationale. The most common treatment for prostate cancer is\nprobably hormone therapy. It has been \"proven\" to work. So have\nradiation and chemotherapy. What treatments did the article say\nare not proven? \n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "=There is no contradiction here. It is essential in the sense that your\n=body needs it. It is non-essential in the sense that your body can\n=produce enough of it without supplement.\n\nAnd when you're in a technical discussion of amino acids, it's the latter\ndefinition that's used almost universally.\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nCarl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL", ":When I was a school boy, my biology teacher told us of an incident\n:in which a couple were very passionate without actually having\n:sexual intercourse. Somehow the girl became pregnent as sperm\n:cells made their way to her through the clothes via persperation.\n:\n:Was my biology teacher misinforming us, or do such incidents actually\n:occur?\n\nSounds to me like someone was pulling your leg. There is only one way for\npregnancy to occur: intercourse. These days however there is also\nartificial insemination and implantation techniques, but we're speaking of\n\"natural\" acts here. It is possible for pregnancy to occur if semen is\ndeposited just outside of the vagina (i.e. coitus interruptus), but that's\nabout at far as you can get. Through clothes -- no way. Better go talk\nto your biology teacher.\n", "\n\n\nHere is another anecdotal story. I am a picky eater and never wanted to \ntry chinese food, however, I finally tried some in order to please a\ngirl I was seeing at the time. I had never heard of Chinese restaurant\nsyndrome. A group of us went to the restaurant and all shared 6 different\ndishes. It didn't taste great, but I decided it wasn't so bad. We went\nhome and went to bed early. I woke up at 2 AM and puked my guts outs.\nI threw up for so long that (I'm not kidding) I pulled a muscle in\nmy tongue. Dry heaves and everything. No one else got sick, and I'm\nnot allergic to anything that I know of. \n\nSuffice to say that I wont go into a chinese restaurant unless I am \nphysically threatened. The smell of the food makes me ill (and that *is*\na psycholgical reaction). When I have been dragged in to suffer\nthrough beef and broccoli without any sauces, I insist on no MSG. \nI haven't gotten sick yet.\n", "\n >You can also swab the inside of your nose with Bacitracin using a\n >Q tip. Bacitracin is an antibiotic that can be bought OTC as an\n >ointment in a tube. The doctor I listen to on the radio says to apply\n >it for 30 days, while you are taking other antibiotics by mouth.\n\n I have a new doctor who gave me a prescription today for something called \n Septra DS. He said it may cause GI problems and I have a sensitive stomach \n to begin with. Anybody ever taken this antibiotic. Any good? Suggestions \n for avoiding an upset stomach? Other tips?\n\nI've taken Septra. My daughter has taken it many times for ear\ninfections. It works sometimes. It is a sulfa drug. About the only\nproblem I found was that I'm sensitive and developed a rash after nine\ndays of a ten day course. No more Septra for me. My doctor was\nremiss in not telling me to watch out for a rash. I was quite in the\ndark and didn't realize that it could be a drug reaction. No harm\ndone though.\n\nDoug\n\n", "I recently had a case of shingles and my doctors wanted to give me\nintravenous Acyclovir.\n\nIt was a pain finding IV sites in my arms...can I have some facts about\nhow advantageous it is to give intravenous antibiotics rather than oral?", "\nShe's published two books about her manic-depressive illness: \n\n_Call Me Anna: the Autobiography of Patty Duke_, Patty Duke and \nKenneth Turan, Bantam Books 1987 \n\nand\n\n_A Brilliant Madness: Living with Manic-Depressive Illness_, Patty \nDuke and Gloria Hochman, Bantam Books 1992\n", "\nIt isn't that rare, actually. Many cases that are called Parkinson's\nDisease turn out on autopsy to be SND. It should be suspected in any\ncase of Parkinsonism without tremor and which does not respond to\nL-dopa therapy. I don't believe pallidotomy will do much for SND.\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "\nCandida albicans can cause severe life-threatening infections, usually\nin people who are otherwise quite ill. This is not, however, the sort\nof illness that you are probably discussing.\n\n\"Systemic yeast syndrome\" where the body is allergic to\nyeast is considered a quack diagnosis by mainstream medicine. There\nis a book \"The Yeast Connection\" which talks about this \"illness\".\n\nThere is no convincing evidence that such a disease exists.", "I am quite near sighted.\n\nI've recently received laser treatment for both eyes to seal\nholes in the retinas to help prevent retinal detachment. In my\nleft eye a small detachment had begun already and apparently the\nlaser was used to \"weld\" this back in place as well.\n\nMy right eye seems fine. In my left eye I was seeing occasional\nflashes of bright light prior to the treatment. Since the\ntreatment (two weeks) these flashes are now occuring more often\n- several each hour.\n\nThe opthamologist explained the flashes are caused because the\nvitreous body has attached to the retina and is pulling on it. He\nsays this is not treatable and he hopes it may go away on its own\naccord - if it tugs enough I may well face retinal detachment.\n\nI am seeking (via sci.med) additional info on retinal detachments.\nThe Dr. did not wish to spend much time with me in explanations\nso I appreciate any further details anyone can provide. Of most\ninterest to me:\n\nIf my retina does detach what should be my immediate course\nof action?\n\nIf conventional surgery is need to repair the detachment what is\nthe procedure like and what kind of vision can I expect\nafterwards.\n\nDo the symptoms (fairly frequent flashes) imply that detachment\nmaybe near at hand or is this not necessarily cause for alarm.\n\nMany thanks\n\nBill", "\n From THE TUFTS UNIVERSITY GUIDE TO TOTAL NUTRITION: Stanley Gershoff, \n Ph.D., Dean of Tufts University School of Nutrition; HarperPerennial, 1991\n (ISBN #0-06-272007-4):\n\n\t\"The greatest hazard of barbecuing is that the cook will not use\n\t enough caution and get burned. Some people suggest that the\n\t barbecuing itself is dangerous, because the smoke, which is \n\t absorbed by the meat, contains benzopyrene, which, in its pure form,\n\t has been known to cause cancer in laboratory animals. However,\n\t in order to experience the same results, people would have to\n\t consume unrealistically large quantities of barbecued meat at a\n\t time.\"\n", "\nI'll tell you all that I know about chromium. But before I do, I want to \nget a few things off my chest. I just got blasted in e-mail for my kidney \nstone posts. Kidney stones are primarily caused by diet, as is heart \ndisease and cancer. When I give dietary advise, it is not intended to \nencourage people reading this news group(or Sci. Med. Nutrition where I do \nmost of my posting) to avoid seeing a doctor. Nothing can be further from \nthe truth. Kidney stones can be caused by tumors and this possibility has to \nbe ruled out. But once it is, diet is a good way of preventing a reoccurance.\nSame thing with heart disease and cancer, if you suspect that you may have \na problem with one of these diseases, don't use what I'm going to tell you \nor what you read in some book to avoid going to a doctor. You have to go.\nHopefully you will find a doctor who knows enough about nutrition to help \nyou change your risk factors for both diseases as part of a treatment \nprogram(but the odds are that you will not and that's why I'm here). When \nmy wife detected a lump in here breast I didn't say, don't worry my vitamin \nE will take care of it. Any breast lump has to be worked up by a physician, \nplan and simple. If it's begnin(which most are) fine, then maybe a diet \nchange and supplementation will prevent further breast lumps from occuring.\nBut let me tell you right now, if you have tried diet and supplementation \nand another lump returns, get your butt into the doctor's office as fast as \nyour little feet can carry you(better yet, have a mammography done on a \nregular basis, my wife kept putting her's off, both myself and her \ngynocologist told her she needed to have one done). Her gynocologist even \nscheduled one, but she didn't show up(too busy running the Operating Room for \nthe biggest Hospital in Tulsa).\n\nOne more thing, I am not an orthomolecular nutritionist. This group uses \nhigh dose vitamins and minerals to treat all kinds of disease. There is \nabsolutely no doubt in my mind that vitamins and minerals can and do have \ndrug actions in the body. But you talk about flying blind, man this is \nreally blind treatment. No drug could ever be used as these vitamins and \nminerals are being used. I'm not saying that some of this stuff couldn't \nbe right on the money, it may well be. But my approach to nutrition is a \nlot like that of Weinsier and Morgan, the two M.D's who wrote the new \nClinical Nutrition textbook. My push is the nutrient reserves and the lab \ntests needed to measure these reserves and then supplementation or diet \nchanges to get these reserves built up to where they should be to let you \nhandle stress. That's where I'm coming from folks. Blast away if you want,\nI'm not going to change. Put me in your killfile if you want, I really \ndon't care. I'm averaging 8-10 e-mail messages a day from people who think \nthat I've got something important to say. But I'm also getting hit by a \nfew with an axe to grind. That's life.\n\nChromium is one of the trace elements. It has a very limited(but very \nimportant) role in the body. It is used to form glucose tolerance factor\n(GTF). GTF is made up of chromium, nicinamide(niacin), glycine, cysteine \nand glutamic. Only the chromium and the niacin are needed from the diet to \nform GTF. Some foods already have GTF(Liver, brewers or nutritional yeast,\nand black pepper). When chromium is in GTF, a pretty good absorption is \nseen(about 20%). But when it is simply present as a mineral or mineral \nchelate(chromium picolinate) it's absorption is much lower(1 to 2%, lowest \nfor all the minerals). I've been posting in Misc. Fitness and chromium has \ncome up there several times as a \"fat burner\". Chromium is among the least \ntoxic of the minerals so you could really load yourself up and not really \ndo any harm. I wouldn't do it though. The adequate and safe range for \nchromium is 50 to 200ug per day. The average American is getting about \n30ug per day from his/her diet. Chromium levels decrease with age and many \nbelieve that adult onset diabetes is primarily a chromium deficiency. I \ncan cite you several studies that have been done with glucose tolerance in \nType II diabetes but I'm not going to because for each positive one, there \nalso seems to be a negative one as well. I'm convinced that the problem is \nbioavailability. When yeast(GTF) is used, good results are obtained but when \nchromium itself is used the results are usually negative. In addition to \nType II diabetes, chromiuum has been examined in cardiovascular disease and \nglucoma, again with mixed results as far as cardiovascular disease is \nconcerned\n\nSince a high blood glucose level can lead to cardiovascular disease, \nthis possible link with chromium isn't too surprising. Glucoma is a little \nmore interesting. Muscle eye focusing activity is primarily an insulin \nresponsive glucose-driven metabolic function. If this eye focusing activity \nis impaired(by a lack of glucose due to a poor insulin response), intraocular \npressure is believed to be elevated. In a fairly large study of 400 pts with \nglaucoma, the one consistent finding was a low RBC chromium. J. Am. Coll. \nNutr. 10(5):536,(1991). But this one preliminary study should not prompt \npeople to go out and start popping chromium supplements. For one thing, \njust about every older person is going to have a low RBC chromium unless \nthey have been taking chromium suppleemnts(yeast). Since glucoma is often \nfound in older people, it's not too surprising that chromium was low in the \nRBC's. If chromium supplementation could reverse glucoma, that would \nprompt some attention. I suspect that there will be a clinical trail to \ncheck out this possible chromium link to glucoma.\n\nYou could find out what your body chromium pool size was by either the RBC \nchromium test or hair analysis. Most clinical labs are not going to run a \nRBC chromium. There are plenty of labs that will do a hair and nail \nanalysis for you, but I wouldn't use them. There is just too much funny \nbusiness going on in these unregulated labs right now.\n\nHere's Weinsier and Morgan, advise on chromium. They do not consider \nchromium to be one of those minerals for which a reliable clinical test is \navailable(they don't like the hair and nail analysis labs either, and they \nalso recognize the RBC chromium is primarily a research test that is not \nroutinely available in most clinical chemistry labs). This has to change \nand as more labs run a RBC chromiuum, it will. What then do they suggest?\nMake a diagnosis of chromium deficiency based on a documented clinical \nresponse to chromium(run a glucose tolerance test before and after chromium \nsupplementation). Once you make the diagnosis, put the patient on 200ug of \nCrCl3 orally each day or 10grams of yeast per day.\n\nWhat's my advise? Don't take chromium supplements to try to loose weight\n(they just do not work that way). If you want to take them and then \nexercise, that would be great. Do include yeast as part of your diet(most \nAmericans are not getting enough chromium from their diet). If you do have \na poor glucose tolerance, ask your doctor to check your chromium status. \nWhen he or she says, \"what in the world are you talking about\", just say, \nplease get a copy of Weinsier and Morgan's new Clinical Nutrition textbook \nand do what they say to do with patients who present with a poor glucose \ntolerance. If you can't do that, I'll find a doctor who can, thank you \nvery much.", "\nI was wondering if a group called 'sci.pharmacology' would be relevent.\nThis would be used for a more formal discussion about pharmacological\nissues (pharmacodynamics, neuropharmacology, etc.)\n\nJust an informal proposal (I don't know anything about the net.politics\nfor adding a newsgroup, etc.)\n\n[more alt.psychoactives stuff deleted]", "\n\nOf course. When the catbox begines to smell, simply transfer its\ncontents into the potted plant in the foyer.\n\n\"Why Hillary! Your government smells so... FRESH!\"\n-- ", "\nSure ... because it's a non-market phenomenom and the free market\ncan't solve it. Even our private insurance says that ....\n\n\n.... and wants no part of it.\n\n\nCanada is saturated by American media. While pundits come on cable\nand talk about how awful our health care is supposed to be, what\npeople experience up north ends up not differing from what they see\nportrayed on American television in movies (i.e., same infrastructure,\ndifferent insurance make-up). Yet they know not of any insurance\nproblems, and have no idea of what an HMO is ... but having lots of\nBritish TV as well, they know that they don't like NHS.\n\n\nThe polls that you refer to, for the Canadian data, are from the\nannual July 1st polls conducted for Macleans (our major English\nnewsmagazine) by Decima Research ... Decima president Allen Gregg is\nconsidered one of the world's top poll researchers, and Mulroney's\nConservatives have relied on him to keep in power in the face of\nimpossible election situations. The American polls are Harris polls,\nand have been reposted on USENET a few times and probably will again.\nI'm sorta suspicious myself, 'cos maybe Americans want universal\ncoverage like Canada --- I honestly doubt that most Americans realize\nthat we have private doctors and public and private hospitals (i.e.,\nsimiliar health care infrastructure) and our \"system\" is basically\npure insurance without HMO's.\n\n\nUntil the idea of managed competition arose, there was no direct\nthreat to stand-alone private practice. In the 1960's, the AMA\nfought HMO's as corporatized socialist medicine ... part of the\nreason why we have only insurance, and no HMO's in Canada 'cos\nthat was part of the deal cut with the CMA.\n\n\nBut each site is probably compact, and the clientele are creamed.\nAnd don't forget that HMO's place caps on your coverage, and often\nwon't tell you about additional procedures you could get otherwise\n(despite that you might be willing to pay for it).\n\ngld", "It would be nice to think that individuals can somehow 'beat the system'\nand like a space explorer, boldly go where no man has gone before and\nreturn with a prize cure. Unfortunately, too often the prize is limited\nand the efficacy of the 'cure' questionable when applied to all\nsufferers.\n\nThis applies to both medical researchers and non-medical individuals.\nJust because it appears in an obscure journal and may be of some use\ndoes not make the next cure-all. What about the dozens of individuals\nwho have courageously participated in clinical trials? Did they have any\nguarentee of cures? Are they any less because they didn't trumpet their\nstory all over the world?\n\nAs a parting note, wasn't there some studies done on Gingko seeds for\nMeniere's? (To the original poster : what about trying for a trial of\nthat? It's probably not a final answer but it certainly may alleviate\nsome of the discomfort. And you'd be helping answer the question for\nfuture sufferers.)", "\nI've mentioned this study a couple of times now: Ingestion of yogurt\ncontaining Lactobacillus acidophilus as prophylaxis for candidal\nvaginitis, Annals of Internal Medicine, 3/1/92 116(5):353-7. Do you\nhave a problem with the study because they used yogurt rather than\ncapsules of lactobacillus (even though it had positive results)?\n\nThe study was a crossover trial of daily ingestion of 8 ounces of\nyogurt. There was a marked decrease in infections while women were\ningesting the yogurt. Problems with the study included very small\nnumbers (33 patients enrolled) and many protocol violations (only\n21 patients were analyzed). Still, the difference in rates of infection\nbetween the two groups was so large that the study remains fairly\nbelievable.", ": \n: Once again we are waiting. I have been thinking that it would be good\n: to get to as large a group as possible to see if anyone has any\n: experience with this kind of thing. I know that members of the medical\n: community are sometimes loathe to admit the importance that diet and\n: foods play in our general health and well-being. Anyway, as you can\n: guess, I am worried sick about this, and would appreciate any ideas\n: anyone out there has. Sorry to be so wordy but I wanted to really get\n: across what is going on here.\n: \n: \nI don't know anything specifically, but I have one further anecdote. A\ncolleague of mine had a child with a serious congenital disease, tuberous\nsclerosis. Along with mental retardation comes a serious seizure disorder.\nThe parents noticed that one thing that would precipitate a seizure was\na meal with corn in it. I have always wondered about the connection, and\nfurther about other dietary ingredients that might precipitate seizures.\nOther experiences would be interesting to hear about from netters.\n", "\nI'll answer you're sarcasm with more sarcasm:\n\n\tBoy, it looks like the WOD is WORKING REALLY GOOD to stop people from\n\tbeing screwed up in the head, given that example!\n\n(Issue: your friend _got_ his drugs--legal or not legal, he'll continue to\nget them. Issue #2: why should _I_, as somebody who does NOT use illegal\ndrugs and who IS NOT \"screwed up\" have to PAY for this idiot's problems? He's\nnot doing anybody any harm except himself. The WOD, on the other hand, is an\nimmediate THREAT to MY life and livelyhood. Tell me why I should sacrafice\nTHIS to THAT!).\n\n\n", "\nShort of changes by the feds, there is no way. Codeine alone is very\ndifficult to prescribe without a lot of hassles. Tylenol #3 is the\nbest compromise. That way he can get refills. The amount of acetominophen\nhe is getting with his codeine won't hurt him any.\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "\nI think you must have the same hygiene teacher I had in 1955. There \nis a story about the Civil War about a soldier who was shot in the\ngroin. The bullet, after passing through one of his testes, then entered\nthe abdomen of a young woman standing nearby. Later, when she (a young\nwoman of unimpeachible virtue) was shown to be pregnant; the soldier did\nthe honorable thing of marrying her. According to this story, they lived\nhappily ever after. \nPerhaps the most famous of Mr. Rau's classes was the time he would come\ninto class brandishing an aluminum turning mandrel (tapering from about\n3/8\" to 1/2\" over a 10 inch length). He would say, \"Boys, do you know\nwhat this is? It's a medical instrument called a 'cock reamer' and it's\nused to unclog your penis when you have VD. They just ram it up there\nwithout an anesthetic!\" Needless to say this had a chilling effect.\nI didn't have lascivious thoughts for at least an hour. Later in life\nas I perused medical instrument catelogs and saw the slender flexible\nurethral sounds that are actually used, I could not escape thinking\nthat I might one day see, \"Reamer, Cock (style of Rau) .\" \n]\n\n", "\nGee, the War on Drugs has been going on for all these years and they're\nstill getting drugs! Imagine that...\n\nMy friends who like grass (I don;t agree but it's pretty harmless) are\nunable to get it, yet I know a number of places where someone stupid\nenough could get crack cocaine within a half hour of leaving my office.\n\nThe War on Drugs has been completely unsuccessful, yet it's lead to really\nhorrible abuses of peoples' COnstitutional rights. I don't see how a\nthinking person could justify it.", ": In article <1993Apr29.121501@is.morgan.com>, jlieb@is.morgan.com (Jerry Liebelson) writes...\n: > I want to know what weightlessness actually FEELS like. For example, is\n: >there a constant sensation of falling? \n\nRon Baalke (baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov) replied:\n: Yes, weightlessness does feel like falling. It may feel strange at first,\n: but the body does adjust. The feeling is not too different from that\n: of sky diving.\n\nI'm no astronaut, but I've flown in the KC-135 several times. I'll\ntell you about my first flight.\n\nAt the on-set of weightlessness, my shoulders lifted and my spine\nstraightened. I felt a momentary panic, and my hands tried to grab\nonto something (like the strap keeping me firmly against the floor)\nto prevent me from falling; I remember conciously over-ruling my\ninvoluntary motions. My ears felt (not heard) a rush and I could\nfeel fluid moving in my head (like when you get up from bed while\nyou have a cold).\n\nAt that point, I ceased to concentrate on my physiological response,\nsince I had some science to do. I was busy keeping my experiment\ngoing and keeping track of all the parts during the \"return\" of\ngravity and subsequent 1.8-G pull-out, so I didn't really pay\nattention to physiology at that time.\n\nAfter about 5 parabolas, I discovered that I was performing one\nof the tricks I've discovered to keep myself from getting motion\nsickness; I was keeping my head very still and moving very slowly\n-- all except my hands and arms, which needed to be in rapid,\nconcious motion for my experiment. During the pull-out to\nparabola 5, my queasiness finally started to get to me, and I\nhad to use one of those air-sickness bags. I was basically\nuseless for the rest of that flight, so I went to the seats in\nthe back of the plane while my partner (whom I drafted for just\nthis purpose) kept working on the experiment while I was ill.\n(He was a vetran Vomit Comet rider, one of those anomalous\npeople who don't get sick on the thing.)\n\nI didn't think of it as a \"constant sensation of falling\" so\nmuch as like swimming in air. It's very close to the sensations\nI feel when I'm scuba diving and I turn my head down and fins up.\n\nJerry:\n: >And what is the motion sickness\n: >that some astronauts occasionally experience? \n\nRon:\n: It is the body's reaction to a strange environment. It appears to be\n: induced partly to physical discomfort and part to mental distress.\n: Some people are more prone to it than others, like some people are more\n: prone to get sick on a roller coaster ride than others. The mental\n: part is usually induced by a lack of clear indication of which way is\n: up or down, ie: the Shuttle is normally oriented with its cargo bay\n: pointed towards Earth, so the Earth (or ground) is \"above\" the head of\n: the astronauts. About 50% of the astronauts experience some form of\n: motion sickness, and NASA has done numerous tests in space to try to\n: see how to keep the number of occurances down.\n\nI'm a volunteer in JSC's Space Biomedical Laboratory where they do,\namong other things, some of the tests Ron mentions. I was in one\ncalled the Pre-flight Adaptation Trainer, which consisted of a chair on\na several-degree-of-freedom motion base with moving geometric visual\naids. The goal was to measure the victim's^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H subject's\nresponses and subjective physiological descriptions and see if repeated\nexposure to this environment could reduce future motion sickness\nsymptoms.\n\nJerry --\n\nI don't know of any former or active-duty astronauts who personally\nread this group. I know that Bruce McCandless's office had been\nwaiting anxiously for the Space Station Redesign option I posted\nlast week, but I don't think Bruce reads the group himself.\n\n-- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office\n kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (713) 483-4368", "------------- cut here -----------------\nlimits of AZT's efficacy and now suggest using the drug either sequentially \nwith other drugs or in a kind of AIDS treatment \"cocktail\" combining a number \nof drugs to fight the virus all at once. \"Treating people with AZT alone \ndoesn't happen in the real world anymore,\" said Dr. Mark Jacobson of the \nUniversity of California--San Francisco. Also, with recent findings \nindicating that HIV replicates rapidly in the lymph nodes after infection, \nphysicians may begin pushing even harder for early treatment of HIV-infected \npatients.\n================================================================== \n\n\"New Infectious Disease Push\" American Medical News (04/05/93) Vol. 36, No. \n13, P. 2 \n\n The Center for Disease Control will launch a worldwide network to track \nthe spread of infectious diseases and detect drug-resistant or new strains in \ntime to help prevent their spread. The network is expected to cost between \n$75 million and $125 million but is an essential part of the Clinton \nadministration's health reform plan, according to the CDC and outside \nexperts. The plan will require the CDC to enhance surveillance of disease in \nthe United States and establish about 15 facilities across the world to \ntrack disease. \n\n ===================================================================== \n April 13, 1993 \n ===================================================================== \n\n\"NIH Plans to Begin AIDS Drug Trials at Earlier Stage\" Nature (04/01/93) Vol. \n362, No. 6419, P. 382 (Macilwain, Colin) \n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 42\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n The National Institutes of Health has announced it will start treating \nHIV-positive patients as soon as possible after seroconversion, resulting \nfrom recent findings that show HIV is active in the body in large numbers \nmuch earlier than was previously believed. Anthony Fauci, director of the \nU.S. National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), said, \n\"We must address the question of how to treat people as early as we possibly \ncan with drugs that are safe enough to give people for years and that will \nget around microbial resistance.\" He said any delay would signify questions \nover safety and resistance rather than a lack of funds. Fauci, who co-\nauthored one of the two papers published last week in Nature, rejects the \nargument by one of his co-authors, Cecil Fox, that the new discovery \nindicates that \"$1 billion spent on vaccine trials\" has been \"a waste of time \nand money\" because the trials were started too long after the patients were \ninfected and were ended too quickly. John Tew of the Medical College of \nVirginia in Richmond claims that the new evidence strongly backs the argument \nfor early treatment of HIV-infected patients. AIDS activists welcomed the \nnew information but said the scientific community has been slow to understand \nthe significance of infection of the lymph tissue. \"We've known about this \nfor five years, but we're glad it is now in the public domain,\" said Jesse \nDobson of the California-based Project Inform. But Peter Duesberg, who \nbelieves that AIDS is independent of HIV and is a result of drug abuse in the \nWest, said, \"We are several paradoxes away from an explanation of AIDS--even \nif these papers are right.\" \n\n ====================================================================== \n April 14, 1993 \n ====================================================================== \n\n\"Risk of AIDS Virus From Doctors Found to Be Minimal\" Washington Post \n(04/14/93), P. A9 \n\n The risk of HIV being transmitted from infected health-care \nprofessionals to patients is minimal, according to new research published in \ntoday's Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA). This finding \nsupports previous conclusions by health experts that the chance of \ncontracting HIV from a health care worker is remote. Three studies in the \nJAMA demonstrate that thousands of patients were treated by two HIV-positive \nsurgeons and dentists without becoming infected with the virus. The studies \nwere conducted by separate research teams in New Hampshire, Maryland, and \nFlorida. Each study started with an HIV-positive doctor or dentist and \ntested all patients willing to participate. The New Hampshire study found \nthat none of the 1,174 patients who had undergone invasive procedures by an \nHIV-positive orthopedic surgeon contracted HIV. In Maryland, 413 of 1,131 \npatients operated on by a breast surgery specialist at Johns Hopkins Hospital \nwere found to be HIV-negative. Similarly in Florida, 900 of 1,192 dental \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 43\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\npatients, who all had been treated by an HIV-positive general dentist, were \ntested and found to be negative for HIV. The Florida researchers, led by \nGordon M. Dickinson of the University of Miami School of Medicine, said, \n\"This study indicates that the risk for transmission of HIV from a general \ndentist to his patients is minimal in a setting in which universal \nprecautions are strictly observed.\" Related Story: Philadelphia Inquirer \n(04/14) P. A6 \n====================================================================== \n\"Alternative Medicine Advocates Divided Over New NIH Research Program\" AIDS \nTreatment News (04/02/93) No. 172, P. 6 (Gilden, Dave) \n\n The new Office of Alternative Medicine at the National Institutes of \nHealth has raised questions about the NIH's commitment to an effort that uses \nunorthodox or holistic therapeutic methods. The OAM is a small division of \nthe NIH, with its budget only at $2 million dollars compared to more than $10 \nbillion for the NIH as a whole. In addition, the money for available \nresearch grants is even smaller. About $500,000 to $600,000 total will be \navailable this year for 10 or 20 grants. Kaiya Montaocean, of the Center for \nNatural and Traditional Medicine in Washington, D.C., says the OAM is afraid \nto become involved in AIDS. \"They have to look successful and there is no \neasy answer in AIDS,\" she said. There is also a common perception that the \nOAM will focus on fields the NIH establishment will find non-threatening, \nsuch as relaxation techniques and acupuncture. When the OAM called for an \nadvisory committee conference of about 120 people last year, the AIDS \ncommunity was largely missing from the meeting. In addition, activists' \ngeneral lack of contact with the Office has added suspicion that the epidemic \nwill be ignored. Jon Greenberg, of ACT-UP/New York, said, \"The OAM advisory \npanel is composed of practitioners without real research experience. It \nwill take them several years to accept the nature of research.\" \nNevertheless, Dr. Leanna Standish, research director and AIDS investigator \nat the Bastyr College of Naturopathic Medicine in Seattle, said, \"Here is a \nwonderful opportunity to fund AIDS research. It's only fair to give the \nOffice time to gel, but it's up to the public to insist that it's much, much \nmore [than public relations].\" \n====================================================================== \n\"Herpesvirus Decimates Immune-cell Soldiers\" Science News (04/03/93) Vol. 143, \nNo. 14, P. 215 (Fackelmann, Kathy A.) \n\n Scientists conducting test tube experiments have found that herpesvirus-\n6 can attack the human immune system's natural killer cells. This attack \ncauses the killer cells to malfunction, diminishing an important component in \nthe immune system's fight against diseases. Also, the herpesvirus-6 may be a \nfactor in immune diseases, such as AIDS. In 1989, Paolo Lusso's research \nfound that herpesvirus-6 attacks another white cell, the CD4 T-lymphocyte, \nwhich is the primary target of HIV. Lusso also found that herpesvirus-6 can \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 44\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nkill natural killer cells. Scientists previously knew that the natural \nkiller cells of patients infected with HIV do not work correctly. Lusso's \nresearch represents the first time scientists have indicated that natural \nkiller cells are vulnerable to any kind of viral attack, according to Anthony \nL. Komaroff, a researcher with Harvard Medical School. Despite the test-tube \nfindings, scientists are uncertain whether the same result occurs in the \nbody. Lusso's team also found that herpesvirus-6 produces the CD4 receptor \nmolecule that provides access for HIV. CD4 T-lymphocytes express this surface \nreceptor, making them vulnerable to HIV's attack. Researchers concluded that \nherpesvirus-6 cells can exacerbate the affects of HIV. \n\n ====================================================================== \n April 15, 1993 \n ==================================================================== \n\n\"AIDS and Priorities in the Global Village: To the Editor\" Journal of the \nAmerican Medical Association (04/07/93) Vol. 269, No. 13, P. 1636 (Gellert, \nGeorge and Nordenberg, Dale F.) \n\n All health-care workers are obligated and responsible for not only \nensuring that politicians understand the dimensions of certain health \nproblems, but also to be committed to related policies, write George Gellert \nand Dale F. Nordenberg of the Orange County Health Care Agency, Santa Ana, \nCalif., and the Emory University School of Public Health in Atlanta, Ga., \nrespectively. Dr. Berkley's editorial on why American doctors should care \nabout the AIDS epidemic beyond the United States details several reasons for \nthe concerted interest that all countries share in combating AIDS. It should \nbe noted that while AIDS leads in hastening global health interdependence, it \nis not the only illness doing so. Diseases such as malaria and many \nrespiratory and intestinal pathogens have similarly inhibited the economic \ndevelopment of most of humanity and acted to marginalize large populations. \nBerkley mentions the enormous social and economic impact that AIDS will have \non many developing countries, and the increased need for international \nassistance that will result. Berkley also cites the lack of political \naggressiveness toward the AIDS epidemic in its first decade. But now there \nis a new administration with a promise of substantial differences in approach \nto international health and development in general, and HIV/AIDS in \nparticular. Vice President Al Gore proposes in his book \"Earth in the \nBalance\" a major environmental initiative that includes sustainable \ninternational development, with programs to promote literacy, improve child \nsurvival, and disseminate contraceptive technology and access throughout the \ndeveloping world. If enacted, this change in policy could drastically \nchange the future of worldwide health. \n==================================================================== \n\"AIDS and Priorities in the Global Village: In Reply\" Journal of the American \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 45\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nMedical Association (04/07/93) Vol. 269, No. 13, P. 1636 (Berkley, Seth) \n\n Every nation should tackle HIV as early and aggressively as possible \nbefore the disease reaches an endemic state, even at a cost of diverting less \nattention to some other illnesses, writes Seth Berkley of the Rockefeller \nFoundation in New York, N.Y., in reply to a letter by Drs. Gellert and \nNordenberg. Although it is true that diseases other than AIDS, such as \nmalaria and respiratory and intestinal illnesses, have similarly inhibited \neconomic development in developing countries and deserve much more attention \nthan they are getting, Berkley disagrees with the contention that AIDS is \nreceiving too much attention. HIV differs from other diseases, in most \ndeveloping countries because it is continuing to spread. For most endemic \ndiseases, the outcome of neglecting interventions for one year is another \nyear of about the same level of needless disease and death. But with AIDS \nand its increasing spread, the cost of neglect, not only in disease burden \nbut financially, is much greater. Interventions in the early part of a \nrampantly spreading epidemic like HIV are highly cost-effective because each \nindividual infection prevented significantly interrupts transmission. Berkley \nsays he agrees with Gellert and Nordenberg about the gigantic social and \neconomic effects of AIDS and about the need for political leadership. But he \nconcludes that not only is assertive political leadership needed in the \nUnited States for the AIDS epidemic, but even more so in developing countries \nwith high rates of HIV infection and where complacency about the epidemic \nhas been the rule.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 46\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n\n\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n AIDS/HIV Articles\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n\n First HIV Vaccine Trial Begins in HIV-Infected Children\n H H S N E W S\n ********************************************************************\n U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES\n March 29, 1993\n\n\n First HIV Vaccine Therapy Trial Begins In HIV-Infected Children\n\n\nThe National Institutes of Health has opened the first trial of experimental \nHIV vaccines in children who are infected with the human immunodeficiency \nvirus (HIV), the virus that causes AIDS. \n\nThe trial will compare the safety of three HIV experimental vaccines in 90 \nchildren recruited from at least 12 sites nationwide. Volunteers must be HIV-\ninfected but have no symptoms of HIV disease. \n\nHHS Secretary Donna E. Shalala said this initial study can be seen as \"a \nhopeful milestone in our efforts to ameliorate the tragedy of HIV-infected \nchildren who now face the certainty they will develop AIDS.\" \n\nAnthony S. Fauci, M.D., director of the National Institute of Allergy and \nInfectious Diseases and of the NIH Office of AIDS Research, said the trial \"is \nthe first step in finding out whether vaccines can help prevent or delay \ndisease progression in children with HIV who are not yet sick.\" If these \nvaccines prove to be safe, more sophisticated questions about their \ntherapeutic potential will be assessed in Phase II trials. \n\nThe Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates 10,000 children in \nthe United States have HIV. By the end of the decade, the World Health \nOrganization projects 10 million children will be infected worldwide. \n\nThe study will enroll children ages 1 month to 12 years old. NIAID, which \nfunds the AIDS Clinical Trials Group network, anticipates conducting the trial \nat nine ACTG sites around the country and three sites participating in the \nACTG but funded by the National Institute of Child Health and Human \nDevelopment. \n\nPreliminary evidence from similar studies under way in infected adults shows \nthat certain vaccines can boost existing HIV-specific immune responses and \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 47\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nstimulate new ones. It will be several years, however, before researchers \nknow how these responses affect the clinical course of the disease. \n\nThe results from the pediatric trial, known as ACTG 218, will be examined \nclosely for other reasons as well. \"This trial will provide the first insight \ninto how the immature immune system responds to candidate HIV vaccines,\" said \nDaniel Hoth, M.D., director of NIAID's division of AIDS. \"We need this \ninformation to design trials to test whether experimental vaccines can prevent \nHIV infection in children.\" \n\nIn the United States, most HIV-infected children live in poor inner-city \nareas, and more than 80 percent are minorities, mainly black or Hispanic. \n\nNearly all HIV-infected children acquire the virus from their mothers during \npregnancy or at birth. An infected mother in the United States has more than \na one in four chance of transmitting the virus to her baby. As growing \nnumbers of women of childbearing age become exposed to HIV through injection \ndrug use or infected sexual partners, researchers expect a corresponding \nincrease in the numbers of infected children. \n\nHIV disease progresses more rapidly in infants and children than in adults. \nThe most recent information suggests that 50 percent of infants born with HIV \ndevelop a serious AIDS-related infection by 3 to 6 years of age. These \ninfections include severe or frequent bouts of common bacterial illnesses of \nchildhood that can result in seizures, pneumonia, diarrhea and other symptoms \nleading to nutritional problems and long hospital stays. \n\nAt least half of the children in the trial will be 2 years of age or younger \nto enable comparison of the immune responses of the younger and older \nparticipants. All volunteers must have well-documented HIV infection but no \nsymptoms of HIV disease other than swollen lymph glands or a mildly swollen \nliver or spleen. They cannot have received any anti-retroviral or immune-\nregulating drugs within one month prior to their entry into the study. \n\nStudy chair John S. Lambert, M.D., of the University of Rochester Medical \nSchool, and co- chair Samuel Katz, M.D., of Duke University School of \nMedicine, will coordinate the trial assisted by James McNamara, M.D., medical \nofficer in the pediatric medicine branch of NIAID's division of AIDS. \n\n\"We will compare the safety of the vaccines by closely monitoring the children \nfor any side effects, to see if one vaccine produces more swollen arms or \nfevers, for example, than another,\" said Dr. McNamara. \"We'll also look at \nwhether low or high doses of the vaccines stimulate immune responses or other \nsignificant laboratory or clinical effects.\" He emphasized that the small \nstudy size precludes comparing these responses or effects among the three \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 48\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nproducts. \n\nThe trial will test two doses each of three experimental vaccines made from \nrecombinant HIV proteins. These so-called subunit vaccines, each genetically \nengineered to contain only a piece of the virus, have so far proved well-\ntolerated in ongoing trials in HIV-infected adults. \n\nOne vaccine made by MicroGeneSys Inc. of Meriden, Conn., contains gp160--a \nprotein that gives rise to HIV's surface proteins--plus alum adjuvant. \nAdjuvants boost specific immune responses to a vaccine. Presently, alum is \nthe only adjuvant used in human vaccines licensed by the Food and Drug \nAdministration. \n\nBoth of the other vaccines--one made by Genentech Inc. of South San Francisco \nand the other by Biocine, a joint venture of Chiron and CIBA-Geigy, in \nEmeryville, Calif.--contain the major HIV surface protein, gp120, plus \nadjuvant. The Genentech vaccine contains alum, while the Biocine vaccine \ncontains MF59, an experimental adjuvant that has proved safe and effective in \nother Phase I vaccine trials in adults. \n\nA low dose of each product will be tested first against a placebo in 15 \nchildren. Twelve children will be assigned at random to be immunized with the \nexperimental vaccine, and three children will be given adjuvant alone, \nconsidered the placebo. Neither the health care workers nor the children will \nbe told what they receive. \n\nIf the low dose is well-tolerated, controlled testing of a higher dose of the \nexperimental vaccine and adjuvant placebo in another group of 15 children will \nbegin. \n\nEach child will receive six immunizations--one every four weeks for six \nmonths--and be followed-up for 24 weeks after the last immunization. \n\nFor more information about the trial sites or eligibility for enrollment, call \nthe AIDS Clinical Trials Information Service, 1-800-TRIALS-A, from 9 a.m. to 7 \np.m., EST weekdays. The service has Spanish-speaking information specialists \navailable. Information on NIAID's pediatric HIV/AIDS research is available \nfrom the Office of Communications at (301) 496- 5717. \n\nNIH, CDC and FDA are agencies of the U.S. Public Health Service in HHS. For \npress inquiries only, please call Laurie K. Doepel at (301) 402-1663.\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 49\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n NEW EVIDENCE THAT THE HIV CAN CAUSE DISEASE INDEPENDENTLY\n News from the National Institute of Dental Research\n\nThere is new evidence that the human immunodeficiency virus can cause disease \nindependently of its ability to suppress the immune system, say scientists at \nthe National Institues of Health. \n\nThey report that HIV itself, not an opportunistic infection, caused scaling \nskin conditions to develop in mice carrying the genes for HIV. Although the \nHIV genes were active in the mice, they did not compromise the animals' \nimmunity, the researchers found. This led them to conclude that the HIV \nitself caused the skin disease. \n\nOur findings support a growing body of evidence that HIV can cause disease \nwithout affecting the immune system, said lead author Dr. Jeffrey Kopp of the \nNational Institute of Dental Research (NIDR). Dr. Kopp and his colleagues \ndescribed their study in the March issue of AIDS Research and Human \nRetroviruses. \n\nDeveloping animal models of HIV infection has been difficult, since most \nanimals, including mice, cannot be infected by the virus. To bypass this \nproblem, scientists have developed HIV-transgenic mice, which carry genes for \nHIV as well as their own genetic material. \n\nNIDR scientists created the transgenic mice by injecting HIV genes into mouse \neggs and then implanting the eggs into female mice. The resulting litters \ncontained both normal and transgenic animals. \n\nInstitute scientists had created mice that carried a complete copy of HIV \ngenetic material in l988. Those mice, however, became sick and died too soon \nafter birth to study in depth. In the present study, the scientists used an \nincomplete copy of HIV, which allowed the animals to live longer. \n\nSome of the transgenic animals developed scaling, wart-like tumors on their \nnecks and backs. Other transgenic mice developed thickened, crusting skin \nlesions that covered most of their bodies, resembling psoriasis in humans. No \nskin lesions developed in their normal, non-transgenic littermates. \n\nStudies of tissue taken from the wart-like skin tumors showed that they were a \ntype of noncancerous tumor called papilloma. Although the papillomavirus can \ncause these skin lesions, laboratory tests showed no sign of that virus in the \nanimals. \n\nTissue samples taken from the sick mice throughout the study revealed the \npresence of a protein-producing molecule made by the HIV genetic material. \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 50\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nEvidence of HIV protein production proved that the viral genes were \"turned \non,\" or active, said Dr. Kopp. \n\nThe scientists found no evidence, however, of compromised immunity in the \nmice: no increase in their white blood cell count and no signs of common \ninfections. The fact that HIV genes were active but the animals' immune \nsystems were not suppressed confirms that the virus itself was causing the \nskin lesions, Dr. Kopp said. \n\nFurther proof of HIV gene involvement came from a test in which the scientists \nexposed the transgenic animals to ultraviolet light. The light increased HIV \ngenetic activity causing papillomas to develop on formerly healthy skin. \nPapilloma formation in response to increased HIV genetic activity proved the \ngenes were responsible for the skin condition, the scientists said. No \nlesions appeared on normal mice exposed to the UV light. \n\nThe transgenic mice used in this study were developed at NIDR by Dr. Peter \nDickie, who is now with the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious \nDiseases. \n\nCollaborating on the study with Dr. Kopp were Mr. Charles Wohlenberg, Drs. \nNickolas Dorfman, Joseph Bryant, Abner Notkins, and Paul Klotman, all of NIDR; \nDr. Stephen Katz of the National Cancer Institute; and Dr. James Rooney, \nformerly with NIDR and now with Burroughs Wellcome.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 51\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n Clinical Consultation Telephone Service for AIDS\n H H S N E W S\n ********************************************\n U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES\n\n March 4, 1993\n\n\n HHS Secretary Donna E. Shalala today announced the first nationwide \nclinical consultation telephone service for doctors and other health care \nprofessionals who have questions about providing care to people with HIV \ninfection or AIDS. \n The toll-free National HIV Telephone Consulting Service is staffed by a \nphysician, a nurse practitioner and a pharmacist. It provides information on \ndrugs, clinical trials and the latest treatment methods. The service is \nfunded by the Health Resources and Services Administration and operates out of \nSan Francisco General Hospital. \n Secretary Shalala said, \"One goal of this project is to share expertise \nso patients get the best care. A second goal is to get more primary health \ncare providers involved in care for people with HIV or AIDS, which reduces \ntreatment cost by allowing patients to remain with their medical providers and \ncommunity social support networks. Currently, many providers refer patients \nwith HIV or AIDS to specialists or other providers who have more experience.\" \n Secretary Shalala said, \"This clinical expertise should be especially \nhelpful for physicians and providers who treat people with HIV or AIDS in \ncommunities and clinical sites where HIV expertise is not readily available.\" \n The telephone number for health care professionals is 1-800-933-3413, and \nit is accessible from 10:30 a.m. to 8 p.m. EST (7:30 a.m. to 5 p.m. PST) \nMonday through Friday. During these times, consultants will try to answer \nquestions immediately, or within an hour. At other times, physicians and \nhealth care providers can leave an electronic message, and questions will be \nanswered as quickly as possible. \n Health care professionals may call the service to ask any question \nrelated to providing HIV care, including the latest HIV/AIDS drug treatment \ninformation, clinical trials information, subspecialty case referral, \nliterature searches and other information. The service is designed for health \ncare professionals rather than patients, families or others who have alternate \nsources of information or materials. \n When a health care professional calls the new service, the call is taken \nby either a clinical pharmacist, primary care physician or family nurse \npractitioner. All staff members have extensive experience in outpatient and \ninpatient primary care for people with HIV-related diseases. The consultant \nasks for patient-specific information, including CD4 cell count, current \nmedications, sex, age and the patient's HIV history. \n This national service has grown out of a 16-month local effort that \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 52\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nresponded to nearly 1,000 calls from health care providers in northern \nCalifornia. The initial project was funded by HRSA's Bureau of Health \nProfessions, through its Community Provider AIDS Training (CPAT) project, and \nby the American Academy of Family Physicians. \n \"When providers expand their knowledge, they also improve the quality of \ncare they are able to provide to their patients,\" said HRSA Administrator \nRobert G. Harmon. M.D., M.P.H. \"This project will be a great resource for \nhealth care professionals and the HIV/AIDS patients they serve.\" \n \"This service has opened a new means of communication between health care \nprofessionals and experts on HIV care management,\" said HRSA's associate \nadministrator for AIDS and director of the Bureau of Health Resources \nDevelopment, G. Stephen Bowen, M.D., M.P.H. \"Providers who treat people with \nHIV or AIDS have access to the latest information on new drugs, treatment \nmethods and therapies for people with HIV or AIDS.\" \n HRSA is one of eight U.S. Public Health Service agencies within HHS. \n\n\n AIDS Hotline Numbers for Consumers\n\n CDC National AIDS Hotline -- 1-800-342-AIDS\n for information in Spanish - 1-800-344-SIDA\n AIDS Clinical Trials (English & Spanish) -- 1-800-TRIALS-A\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 53\n\f\n------------- cut here -----------------\n-- This is the last part ---------------\n", "Getting back to the original question in this thread:\n\nI experienced breathing difficulties a few years ago similar to those\ndescribed. In my case, it turned out that I was developing Type I\ndiabetes. Although I never sought direct confirmation of this from my\ndoctor, I think that the breathing problem was associated with the\npresence of ketones due to the diabetes.\n\nI think that ketosis can occur in lesser degree if one is restricting\ntheir food intake drastically. I don't know if this relevant in this\ncase, but you might ask your daughter if she has been eating\nproperly.", "\n\nAssuming that the wax is causing hearing loss, congestion or popping\nin the ears, you can try some cautious tepid water irrigation with a\nbulb syringe, but it is awkward to do for oneself and may not work or\nmay even make things worse. (My wife would disagree, she does it\nsuccessfully every six months or so.) In any case DO NOT ATTEMPT\nANYTHING WITH Q-TIPS!!!\n\nMy experience has been that this is initially best handled by a\nEar/Nose/Throat person. I say initially, because an ENT can evaluate\nwhether or not you might have success on your own with a little\ninstruction.\n\nI am not a physician (obviously, because I eschew the term\notolaryngologist); this posting is based only on personal experience.\n\n========================================================================\n\n \"The best is the enemy of the good\" - Voltaire\n\nLeon Traister (lmtra@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com)", "\n\nI tried Prozac a few months ago, and had some insomnia from it, but no\nanxiety or jitters. I probably could have lived with the insomnia if the\nProzac had done any good, but it only provided a tiny benefit. Maybe\nbecause the person who prescribed it didn't know much and gave up after a\n20mg dose didn't work.\n\nNow I'm seeing a psychiatrist who has put me on Zoloft (another serotonin\nreuptake inhibitor like Prozac). One pill/day (50mg) seemed to help some. \nNow I'm trying 100mg/day. Zoloft has fewer and milder side effects than\nProzac. I think my doctor said that only 4% of the people taking Zoloft\nhave to discontinue it because of side effects. The only problem I'm\nhaving is some minor GI distress, but nothing too annoying. Hopefully the\nZoloft will work. Maybe your friend should try this one next.\n\nMy psychiatrist's strategy seems to be to first try one of the serotonin\ndrugs, usually Prozac. If that works, great. If it works but has too many\nside effects, try Zoloft or maybe Paxil. If the serotonin drugs don't work\nat all, try one of the tricyclics like desipramine.\n\n\nHaving a doctor who knows something about antidepressants can make a big\ndifference. My psychiatrist claims that most GPs and FPs don't have much\nexperience in this area, and from what I've seen I'm inclined to believe\nhim. I think I know more about antidepressants than the people at my\nfamily practitioner's office.\n\nDisclaimer: I'm not a doctor; what I know about this comes from talking to\nmy psychiatrist and reading sci.med. \n", "\n\n\nFirst off, use some decent terms if ya don't mind. This is sci.med, not\nalt.sex.\n\nSecondly, how absolutely bogus to assume that \"American's are just too hung\nup on the penis....blah,blah\". I think most American's don't care about\nanything so comlicated as that. They just think it \"looks nicer\". Ask \na few of them and see what response you get. Others still opt for\ncircumcision due to religious traditions and beliefs. Some think it is\neasier to clean. Still others do it because \"Daddy was\".\n\nDont' be so naive as to think American's are afraid of sexuality. ", "\n\nThere are two different mechanisms here: toning of muscles and reduction of\nfat. Exercises specific to particular muscles will tone only those muscles\nexercised (example: look at differences in arm circumferences between pitching\narms and non-pitching arms in major league pitchers). However, if exercise\nalso leads to reduction of body fat, the loss of body fat will be equally\ndistributed over the entire body. There is no way to \"spot reduce\" body fat\nother than surgically, through liposuction. Distribution of body fat is\ngenetically determined. Sometimes a very flabby muscle will look like \"fat\",\nso when that muscle gains some muscle tone it may *appear* as though the \"fat\"\nis \"changing\" into \"muscle\", but really fat and muscle tissues are totally\nseparate, and one does not ever \"change into\" the other.\n", "\nI do not know a lot about this, except from seeing one patient with\n\"Kartagener's syndrome\", which is a form of immotile cilia syndrome\nin which there is situs inversus, bronchiectasis, and chronic\ninfections. \"Situs inversus\" means that organs are on the wrong\nside of the body, and can be complete or partial. It is interesting\nmedically because the normal location of organs is caused in part\nby the \"normal\" rotation associated with ciliary motion, so that in\nabsence of this, laterality can be \"random.\" People with situs\ninversus are quite popular at medical schools, because of their\nrarity, and the fact that most doctors get a bit upset when they\ncan't find the patient's heart sounds (because they're on the wrong\nside). \n\nAccording to Harrison's, immotile cilia syndrom is an autosomal\nrecessive, which should imply that on average one child in four\nin a family would be affected. But there may be much more current\ninformation on this, and as usual in medicine, we may be talking\nabout more than one conditiion. I would suggest that you ask your\npediatrician about contacting a medical geneticics specialist, of\nwhich there is probably one at NCSU.", "Thanks to all who replied to my initial question. I've been away in \nNew Jersey all week and was surprised to see all the responses\nwhen I got back. \n\nTo the person asking about nicotine patches, there are four on the\nmarket:", "This will be the first of monthly postings of the newsletter of \nthe Long Island Chapter of the Transplant Recipients \nInternational Organization (TRIO). Unfortunately, I was unable \nto post it before the date of this month's meeting. I'm \nposting it anyway, and posting it world-wide instead of \nregional, in the hopes that some of the information may be \nuseful or illustrative. Also, I hope it can be used as an \nexample and inspiration for the posting of other newsletters \nand data related to organ transplantation and donation. \n\nMike\n\nTransplant Recipients\nInternational Organization\nLong Island Chapter\nP.O. Box 922\nHuntington, NY 11743-0922\t\t NEWSLETTER\n516/421-3258\n APRIL 1993 \n VOLUME IV No. 8\n\n\nNEXT MEETING\n\n\nThe next meeting is WEDNESDAY APRIL 14 at 8 pm at the Knights \nof Columbus Emerald Manor, 517 Uniondale Avenue in Uniondale. \nOur guest speaker will be Dr. Lewis Teperman. Dr. Teperman \ntrained in Pittsburgh under Dr. Starzl and is now the Assistant \nDirector of the Liver Transplant Program at New York University \nMedical Center. Dr. Teperman will discuss current trends in \ntransplantation and treatment and will answer questions. He is \na long time friend of TRIO, surgeon to many of our members, and \nalways a gracious and delightful guest. It is sure to be a \nvery informative, interesting and engaging evening. Our \nhospitality committee, Bette and Vito Suglia and Jim Spence \nwill be well prepared, and at last the weather should be \ncooperative. We hope to see a very large gathering to welcome \nDr. Teperman. \n\n WEDNESDAY APRIL 14 K of C UNIONDALE\n\n\nLAST MEETING\n\nIt has been noted here before that the Long Island Chapter of \nTRIO has extraordinary power in predicting bad weather, being \nable to forecast rain, sleet and snow fully a month in advance. \nNo TV weatherman can match us. This time we not only scored \nagain, but we were also able to disable the Long Island \nRailroad, making travel REALLY difficult. None the less, many \nbraved the snow and we had an interesting meeting and good \nconversation. Our scheduled speaker, Mrs. Elizabeth Linnehan, \na professional nutritionist, had a family emergency and was not \nable to attend. She hope she will be with us in the fall to \ndiscuss diet and medications. However, Ms. Jennifer Friedman, \nan image consultant and sister of a liver transplant recipient \nwas kind enough to step in on very short notice. Ms. Friedman \ngave us a lot of good advice about choosing clothes and makeup, \n(even a bit for men) to help us look well and healthy and to \nminimize some of the cosmetic effects of some of the medicine \nand drugs we take. We are most grateful to Jennifer and thank \nher for an entertaining evening.\n\n\n\nANNUAL MEETING\n\nIn addition to welcoming Dr. Teperman, the April meeting is \nalso the Annual meeting of the Chapter. This is the official \nnotice of the meeting as required by our By-Laws. The main \npurpose of the meeting is to review the past year, solicit \nmember views and ideas for better ways to meet their needs, and \nto elect members of the Board of Directors for the coming two \nyear term. The nominating committee has prepared the following \nslate for the Board.\n\n Anne (Liver Recipient) and Don Treffeisen\n Robert (Heart Recipient) and Eulene Smith\n Vito (Kidney Recipient) and Bette Suglia\n Kay Grenzig (Liver Recipient)\n Jan Schichtel (Kidney Recipient)\n Larry Juliano (Kidney Recipient)\n David Bekofsky (Director Public Education LITP)\n\nThose remaining on the Board for another year are:\n\n Robert Carroll (Liver, Kidney & Pancreas Recipient)\n Jerry (Kidney Recipient) and Jeanne Eichhorn\n Ron (Kidney Donor) and Marie Healy\n Peter Smith (Bone Marrow Recipient)\n Patricia Ann Yankus (Kidney and Pancreas Recipient)\n Walter Ruzak (Kidney Recipient)\n\nThis may seem to be a big Board, but many hands make light work \nand with our various medical uncertainties, it is good to have \nbackups for all the jobs on the Board. Therefore, in addition \nto the slate being presented for voting, nominations will also \nbe accepted from the floor. There is no set number of Board \nmembers and there is plenty of work. \n\nIn addition, brief treasurer's and membership reports will be \ngiven and the floor will be open for any new business, \nsuggestions, or comments anyone would like to bring up.\n\nWe will keep the formal meeting short so that we can spend the \nmajority of the time with Dr. Teperman.\n\nFUTURE MEETINGS\n\nRemember the scheduled guests for the rest of the year. \n\n May 12 Dr. Peter Shaprio, Chief of Psychiatry\n Columbia Presbyterian Medical Center\n\n June 9 Dr. Felix Rappaport, Director of the Stony \n Brook Kidney Transplant Program. \n\nPlan on being with us the second Wednesday of each month.\n\nNOTDAW\n\nThe week of April 18-24 is National Organ and Tissue Donor \nAwareness Week. NOTDAW. While we are planning news releases, \nspeaking engagements and meetings with Supervisors Gullata and \nGaffney, we have decided not to have our softball game \nbecause of two year's experience with miserable weather. \n\nWe all can help spread the word on donor awareness, however. We \nhave found it effective to ask your pastor, or rabbi to publish \na letter or announcement in the parish bulletin, allow you to \naddress the congregation, or include mention of the gift of \nlife in his sermon. Attached to this Newsletter is a sample \nletter and fact sheet you can use. Thank you.\n\nDR. STARZL TO BE HONORED \n\nThe Long Island Chapter of the American Liver Foundation will \nhold its annual Auction and Dinner Dance on May 7th at the \nFountainbleu on Jericho Turnpike in Jericho. Dr. Thomas \nStarzl will be the honored guest. Tickets are $50 person and \nare going fast. If you'd like to meet Dr. Starzl, call Anne \nTreffeisen at (516) 421-3258 for details.\n\nMEMBERSHIP NEWS \n\nCongratulations to Al Reese. Al received his heart transplant \nin Pittsburgh after waiting 3 1/2 years. He is home and doing \nwell after only 12 days in hospital.\n\nArthur Michaels, liver recipient, is planning to run the Boston \nMarathon in April. What fantastic proof that transplantation \nworks! We hope the national press notices. \n \nBob McCormack, after a persistent bout with infection, had his \ntransplanted kidney removed. He is home now, back on dialysis \nand feeling better. \n\nNicole Healy, kidney recipient and daughter of Ron and Marie, \nspent the past several weeks in hospital in Miami with problems \nencountered on vacation. Marie has been with her in Florida. \nThey are back in New York where Nicole's treatment will \ncontinue. We wish Nicole a speedy recovery. \n\nKay Grenzig, liver recipient, is mending now after a bad fall \nthat resulted in a broken arm and a broken leg. Kay is a \ncandidate for the Board so we need her well soon.\n \nAnd best wishes to all coming out of the flu. It was a tough \nwinter for many, but the tulips are just under the snow.", "refrettably you are mistaken. alt.drugs was used to recruit people for the\nworldwide pot religion. I, however hve no problem being in both of them\n\n", " If the nose culture shows Staph, then Ceftin or even Ceclor\n are better. Suprax does not kill Staph. Treating bacterial\n infections involves a lot of try-and-fail because the\n infections often involve multiple organisms with many resistant\n strains. Some 60% of Hemophilus Influenza strains are now\n resistant. What works for me and my organisms may not work\n for you and yours. Keep experimenting.\n\t Ken Colby\n\n", "I have osteoarthritis, and my huband has just been diagnosed with diabetes\n(type II, I guess--no insulin). \n\n\nI've been trying to read up on these two conditions, and what really\nsurprises me is how few experiments have been done and how little is known. \nLosing weight appears to be imperative for diabetes and advisable for\narthritis (at least, for -women- with arthritis), but, of course, the very\nconditions that make weight loss advisable are part of the reason for the\nweight gain. \n\nFor myself, I'm almost afraid to lose weight, because no matter how gentle\nand sensible a diet I use (the last one was 1800-2000 calories, in about\neight small meals), the weight won't go off gradually and stay off. \nInstead, it drops off precipitously, and then comes back on with much\ninterest, like bread on the waters.\n\n\nWith this experience, it's hard to be encouraging to my husband. All I can\nsuggest is to make it as gradual as possible.\n\nMeanwhile, some experts recommend no sugar, others, no fat, others, just a\nbalanced diet. It's almost impossible to tell from their writings -which-\nparts of their recommendations are supposed to help the condition, and\nwhich are merely ideas the expert thinks are nifty.\n\nIs it my imagination, or are these very old conditions very poorly\nunderstood? Is it just that I'm used to pediatrician-talk (\"It's strep;\ngive him this and he'll get well.\") and so my expectations are too high? \n", "\nThe speculum is the little cone that fits on the end of the otoscope.\nThere are also vaginal specula that females and gynecologists are\nall too familiar with.\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "I am writing this to find out the following:\n\n1.)\tAny information on surgery to prevent reflux esophagitis.\n\n2.)\tThe name(s) of a doctor(s) who specialize in such surgery.\n\n3.)\tInformation on reflux esophagitis which leads to cancer.\n\nMy boyfriend, age 34 and otherwise in good health, was diagnosed with \nreflux esophagitis and a hiatal hernia about 2 years ago. At that time he \nsaw a gastroenterologist and has tried acid controllers (Mylanta, \nTagamet), as well as a restricted diet and raising the head of his bed. \nThese treatments were not effective and because the damage was \nworsening, he opted for a surgical repair 3 months ago. He was told \nthere were two repair techniques that could fix the problem; a Nissen \nwrap and a \"Hill Repair\". He opted for the \"Hill Repair\". He recovered \nvery well from the surgery itself but the pain he had originally is worse \nand in addition he now has trouble swallowing (including saliva).\n\nThe doctor now wants to do an endoscopy and has also informed him \nthat a biopsy might be necessary if he has a pre-cancerous condition \nwhich he called \"Barrett's Syndrome\". If he can't avoid having reflux will \nhe necessarily get cancer?\n\nBasically, if anyone has any information on what he should do now, I'd \nappreciate it.\n\nThanks,", "I have bad luck and got a VD called , which involves\nthe growth of granules in the groin. I found out about it by checking medicine\nbooks and I found the prescriptions. And I know I can just go to a clinic to\nget it cured. BUT unfortunately I am serving my duty in the army right now and\nI think it's impossible to prevent anyone from knowing this if I take leaves \nevery day for two weeks for treatment. Thus I bought the prescribed tablets\nat some drugstore, but to cure it I must get INJECTION of , with\na dose of 1g every 12 hours, for at least 10 days. I can probably buy the \ntools and this solution somewhere but I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO INJECTION BY MYSELF\n!\nCan any kind people here tell me:\n\nIf it's possible to do it? Can I do it on my arm? or it must be done on the hip\nonly?? Any info is welcome and please write me or post your help SOON!! (I am\nalready taking the tablets ..and I can't wait!!)\n\nPlease don't flame me for posting this, and don't judge me. I've learned a \nlesson and all I need now is REAL MEDICAL HELP.", "has no\nmitigate\nliterature,\n\nFirst, let me offer you my condolences. I've had kidney stones 4 times \nand I know the pain she is going through. First, it is best that she see \na doctor. However, every time I had kidney stones, I saw my doctor and the\nonly thing they did was to prescribe some pain killers and medication for a\nurinary tract infection. The pain killers did nothing for me...kidney stones\nare extremely painful. My stones were judged passable, so we just waited it\nout. However the last one took 10 days to pass...not fun. Anyway, if she\nabsolutely won't see a doctor, I suggest drinking lots of fluids and perhaps\nan over the counter sleeping pill. But, I do highly suggest seeing a doctor.\nKidney stones are not something to fool around with. She should be x-rayed \nto make sure there is not a serious problem.", "From article <1993Apr22.233001.13436@vax.oxford.ac.uk>, by krishnas@vax.oxford.ac.uk:\nThe areas that are least likely to hurt are where you have a little \nfat. I inject on my legs and gut, and prefer the gut. I can stick\nit in at a 90 degree angle, and barely feel it. I'm not fat, just\nhave a little gut. My legs however, are muscular, and I have to pinch\nto get anything, and then I inject at about a 45 degree angle,and it\nstill hurts. The rate of absorbtion differs for subcutaneous and \nmuscular injections however--so if it's a daily thing it would be\nbest not to switch places every day to keep consistencey. Although\nsome suggest switch legs or sides of the stomach for each shot, to prevent \nirritation. When you clean the spot off with an alcohol prep, \nwait for it to dry somewhat, or you may get the alcohol in the\npuncture, and of course, that doesn't feel good. A way to prevent\nirratation is to mark the spot that you injected. A good way to\ndo this is use a little round bandage and put it over the \nspot. This helps prevent you from injecting in the same spot,\nand spacing the sites out accuartely (about 1 1/2 \" apart.)\n\nThis is from experience, so I hope it'll help you. (I have\ndiabetes and have to take an injection every morning.)\n\n\t\t\tLater,\n\t\t\t\tDavid", "improve these kids' chances>>of getting another job in the future, but what \ninner city kid would want to hold>>down just one more minimum wage job when \nthere is so much more money to be made>>dealing drugs? \n\nI suppose the correct answer is not \"family values\"?\n\nS'pose not. Never mind. Sorry.", "\nWhen were you in Britain?, my information is different.\n\nFrom Miranda Castro, _The Complete Homeopathy Handbook_,\nISBN 0-312-06320-2, oringinally published in Britain in 1990.", "\n Any opinions on Burzynski's antineoplastons or information about the current \n status of his research would be appreciated.\n\nBurzynski's work is not too promising. None of his A-1 through A-5\nantineoplastons have been shown to have antineoplastic effects against\nexperimental cancer. The NCI conducted tests of A-2 and A-5 against\nleukemia in mice, with the result that doses high enough to produce\ntoxic effects in the mice were not effective in inhibiting the growth\nof the tumor or killing it. (These were in 1983 and 1985)\n\nBurzynski claims that A-10 is the active factor common to all of A-1\nand A-5 (something which he has not shown, A-10 has only been\nextracted from A-2. He also hasn't shown that A-1 through A-5 are actually\ndistinct substances). The NCI conducted a series of tests using A-10\nagainst a standard panel of tumors that included different cell lines\nfrom tumors in the following classes: leukemia, non-small-cell and\nsmall-cell lung cancer, colon cancer, cancer of the central nervous\nsystem, melanoma, ovarian cancer and renal cancer. A-10 exhibited\nneither growth inhibition nor cytotoxicity at the dose levels tested.\n\nIt is necessary to process A-10 since it is not soluble (Burzynski's\ntheory requires soluble agents), but this basically hydrolizes it to\nPAG (which he calls AS 2.5). PAG is not an information carrying\npeptide, something which Byrzynski claims is necessary for\nantineoplastic activity. AS 2.1 (also derived from A-10) is a 4:1\nmixture of PA and PAG. PA (also not a peptide) can be purchased at a\nchemical supply houses for about $0.09 a gram. A-10 is chemically\nextremely similar to glutithamide and thalidomide, both of which are\nhabit forming and can cause peripheral neuropathy. The nasty effects\nof thalidomide are widely known. In spite of this similarity, A-10\ndoes not appear to have been tested for it's potential to induce\nteratogenicity or peripheral neuropathy.\n\nMany of Burzynski's statements about the origin of his theory, early\nresearch, past and present support by others for his work have been\nshown to be untrue.\n\n\nsdb", "Okay, this is a long shot.\n\nMy friend Robin has recurring bouts of mononucleosis-type symptoms, very \nregularly. This has been going on for a number of years. She's seen a \nnumber of doctors; six was the last count, I think. Most of them have \nsaid either \"You have mono\" or \"You're full of it; there's nothing wrong \nwith you.\" One has admitted to having no idea what was wrong with her, \nand one has claimed that it is Epstein-Barr syndrome.\n\nNow, what she told me about EBS is that very few doctors even believe that \nit exists. (Obviously, this has been her experience.) So, what's the \nstory? Is it real? Does the medical profession believe it to be real?\n\nHas anyone had success is treating EBS? Or is it just something to live \nwith? Thanks for your assistance.", ": My girlfriend is in pain from kidney stones. She says that because she has no\n: medical insurance, she cannot get them removed.\n: \n: My question: Is there any way she can treat them herself, or at least mitigate\n: their effects? Any help is deeply appreciated. (Advice, referral to literature,\n: etc...)\n: \n: Thank you,\n: \n: Dave Carvell\n: pk115050@wvnvms.wvnet.edu\n\nFirst off, I would consider the severity of the pain. I had stones\nseveral years ago, and there's now way I could have made it without\nheavy duty doses of morphine and demerol and a two week stay in the\nhospital. I was told that there was nothing that I could take that would\ndissolve them. If the stones are passible, the best thing she could do\nis drink LOTS of water, and hope that they pass, but every time they\nmove a little, the pain will be excrutiating. I was told by my doctor\nat that time that the pain was comparable to that of childbirth. (Yes,\nby a male doctor, so I'm sure some of you women will disagree). I'd\nreally like to know the truth in this, so maybe some of you women who\nhave had a baby and a kidney stone could fill me in. \n--", "There is no data to show chromium is effective in promoting weight loss. The\n few studies that have been done using chromium have been very flawed and inher\nently biased (the investigators were making money from marketing it).\n Theoretically it really doesnt make sense either. The claim is that chromium\nwill increase muscle mass and decrease fat. Of course, chromium is also used t\no cure diabetes, high blood pressure and increase muscle mass in athletes(just\nas well as anabolic steroids). Sounds like snake oil for the 1990's :-)\n On the other hand, it really cant hurt you anywhere but your wallet, and place\nbo effects of anything can be pretty dramatic...\n\n -Paul\n ----------------------------------------------------------\n | Paul Sovcik, Pharm.D. U of Illinois College of Pharmacy |\n | |\n | Email- U18183@UICVM.UIC.EDU |\n | |", "\n\n\n\nI'm not sure, but it almost sounds like they can't figure out where the \n_nucleus_ is within the coma. If they're off by a couple hundred\nmiles, well, you can imagine the rest...\n", "\n\n\nIf I prescribe itraconazole for a patient's sinusitis neither the AMA,\nFDA, State Licensing Board, nor ABFP will be knocking on my door to ask\nwhy. This is a specious argument.\n\n\nAmong other things, how to evaluate new theories and treatments.\n\n\nFunny, I thought it meant \"one who fraudulently misrepresents his\nability and experience in the diagnosis and treatment of disease or\nthe effects to be achieved by the treatment he offers\" (Dorland's\n27th). Certainly more precision than conveyed by \"chronic yeast\".\n\n\nThe inability to discriminate between fraudulent or erroneous\nrepresentations is far more frightening. It is fraud to promote a\ntreatment where the evidence for it is either lacking or against it\nand the quacksalver knows so, or error if the honest practitioner\ndoesn't know so. Failure to speak out against either bespeaks\nincompetency.\n\n\nMay I reply - seriously - that if the practitioners and proponents of\nnon-scientific medicine have left their minds so open that the parts\nof their brains that do critical evaluation have fallen out, they should\nlearn to edit their newsgroup headers to conform to the existing\nhierarchy and divisions.\n", "Does anyone know the approximate prescription cost\nof a 250 ml bottle of Roxonal (morphine)?", "\n\nNot true. I am required to have insurance by law. the method of collection\neffectively makes it a tax.\n\n\n\nWell here we have the right hoping for more selfish bastards. Pity they\ndon't look at what 12 years of the Regan/Bush \"selfish Bastard\" ecconomy\nhas done to the country.\n\nElect a selfish bastard government and they will run the country for themselves,\nthats why they are selfish bastards. Bush and Regan gave tax breaks for the\nultra rich and paid for them by borrowing against the incomes of the middle\nclass.\n", "\n\tIs it that serious? My EKG often comes back with a few irregular\nbeats. Another question: Is a low blood potassium level very bad? My\ndoctor seems concerned, but she tends to worry too much in general.\n\n\n___________________________________________________________________________\nAlexis Perry\t\t\t\t\"The less I want the more I get\nperry1@husc.harvard.edu\t\t\t Make me chaste, but not just yet.\neliot house box 413\t\t\t It's a promise or a lie\n(617) 493-6300\t\t\t\t I'll repent before I die.\"\n\"Work? Have you lost your mind?!\" \n\t\t\t-Ren\t\t\t\t-Sting", "\nYou probably mean \"RoHypnol\", a member of the benzodiazepine family,\nchemical name is flunitrazepam. It is such a strong tranquilizer that it is\nprobably best refered to as a hypnotic, rather than a tranquilizer. Just one\npill will knock you on your ass. Side effects may be similar to valium, xanax,\nserax, librium and other benzodiazepines. ", "My (then) wife used to get recurrent yeast infections. One day, her\ndoctor sent her home with medication for her and a pill for me. I took\nthe pill, upon her insistence, and was very relieved the next day when I\nlooked it up in the PDR. It only RARELY causes testicular atrophy...", "Thanks for all your assistance. I'll see if he can try a\ndifferent brand of patches, although he's tried two brands\nalready. Are there more than two?\n\nMelissa\n\n---\n mmatusev@radford.vak12ed.edu\n\n\"After a time you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing\nafter all as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true.\"", "My doc handed me 10mg samples of CLARITIN (brand of Ioratadine Tablet\nfrom Schering Corp.) I tried to find it in the PDR to no avail. I\ndo remember she mentioned this drug was relatively new to the US but\navailable overseas for quite some time.\n\nLooking mostly for side-effect, contraindications, and mode of action \nsuch that it differs from Seldane and Hismanal.\n\nEmail or newsgroup is fine. Thanx in advance.\n", "\nJonathan, interesting questions. Some wonder whether or not the moon could\nhave ever supported an atmosphere. I'd be interested in knowing what\nour geology/environmental sciences friends think.\n\nAs for human tolerances, the best example of human endurance in terms\nof altitude (i.e. low atmospheric pressure and lower oxygen partial pressure)\nis in my opinion to the scaling of Mt. Everest without oxygen assistance.\nThis was accomplished by a team of mountaineers who trained at high\naltitudes for quite awhile (I think a few months) and then were flown by\nhelicopter from that training altitude to the equivalent altitude on\nMount Everest, where they began the ascent of our planet's highest peak\nwithout oxygen tanks. This is quite a feat of physiological endurance, because\nif you or I tried to go to 20,000 feet and exert ourselves, we would probably\npass out, get altitude sick, and could even die from cerebral edema. So\nthis is the limit of low pressure. High pressure situations would be\nlimited by the duration of time which it takes to slowly acclimate to a higher\npressure. Skin divers would know alot about high pressure situations and\ncould tell you about how they safely make deep dives without getting the\nbends. Some military experiments have put people under several atmospheres of\npressure (not sure what the high limit was because the papers aren't in\nfront of me). Usually at a certain point, the nitrogen in the air becomes\ntoxic to the body and you start acting idiotic. Divers call this nitrogen\nnarcosis. Those afflicted can do very dangerous and irrational things, like\ntaking off a diving mask and oxygen tank in order to talk to fish at 100 feet\nunder water. (Hope any diving folk can elaborate on this matter, as I\nam not a diving expert).\n\nMars cannot support human life without pressurization because the atmosphere\nis too thin (1/100 th our Earth's atmospheric density). In addition,\nthe Mars atmosphere is mostly carbon dioxide. Basically, you would need a \npressure suit there, or you'd die from the low pressure. Interesting huh?", "\nPrecisely.\n\nThere's no objective medicine; some people get marvellous results from\nalternative therapy, others only respond to traditional medicine.\n\nThere's no objective physics; Einstein and Bohr have told us that.\n\nThere's no objective reality. LSD should be sufficient to prove that.\n\n\nI consider it to be a useful fiction; an abstract ideal we can strive\ntowards. Like an ideal gas or a light inextensible string, it doesn't\nactually exist; but we can talk about things as if they were like it, and not\nbe too far wrong.\n", "\n\n\"Diet Evangelist\". Good term. Fits Atkins to a \"T\". \n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "\n\nMSG is mono sodium glutamate, a fairly straight forward compound. If it is\npure, the source should not be a problem. Your comment suggests that \nimpurities may be the cause.\nMy experience of MSG effects (as part of a double blind study) was that the\npure stuff caused me some rather severe effects.\n\n\nSoya bean, fermented cheeses, mushrooms all contain MSG. \n", "\n\n\nThat is the standard advice in dermatology texts.\nThe soak part greatly increases the inconvenience. Don't bother unless\nit doesn't work otherwise.\n\n\nExactly, but it adds to the \"ritual\" aspect, which is important for\nus suggestible patients. (Posters, don't bother to repeat the \nrationale for the soak.)\n\n\nGreasy no matter what. Vaseline (generically, petrolatum) is \nfamous for that. One text states that the more greasy a dry-skin\ncream is, the more effective. \n\n\nTry USP lanolin, at least for maintenance (preventive) therapy. USP\nlanolin is natural and much less greasy AND cheap (don't buy the more\nexpensive perfumed lanolin mixture). As I've commented before, petrolatum\nis a poorly characterized mixture of hydrocarbons which are not found in\nbiological systems (that is not inherently bad, but smell it up close,\neven on your hand), are partially absorbed into the body and remain there\nfor months or more, and have associations with cancer. Don't panic, but\nalso don't believe it's God's gift to the human skin.\n", "I posted about a \"pulse of (relaxation) electricity\". I now think\nit more like a pulse of \"relaxation\" or comfort than a pulse of\nelectricity. It is what you feel if you are overwhelmed by a feeling\nof comfort, such as seeing or thinking about something beautiful.\n\n Another thing. When you sleep, you lie down facing up, with your\npalms aside of you and facing down on the surface of the bed. Then you\nrelax, and there start involuntary nerve firings inside your flesh. So,\nyou feel a \"shiver\" below the surface of the skin (not heart-beat).\nThen this shiver increases, and comes up to your head, and the roam you\nhear loudens. (Note that you always hear a high-pitch when you lie down\nin bed; this is just the noise of your blood running in your ear.) This\nroam is different from the high pitch, but follows the shiver of your\nbody.\n\n \"Shiver\" is not the word. It may be called a mild vibration or quake.\nWhat is this shiver and roam? Can I use this to induce out-of-body\nexperience?", "\nWhy do you think he would be called a quack? The quacks don't do cultures.\nThey poo-poo doing more lab tests: \"this is Lyme, believe me, I've\nseen it many times. The lab tests aren't accurate. We'll treat it\nnow.\" Also, is Dr. N's practice almost exclusively devoted to treating\nLyme patients? I don't know *any* orthopedic surgeons who fit this\npattern. They are usually GPs.\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "My wife has requested that I poll the Sages of Usenet to see what is\nknown about the use of chromium in weight-control diet suppliments.\nShe has seen multiple products advertising it and would like any kind\nreal information.\n\nMy first impulse was \"Yuck! a metal!\" but I have zero data on it.\n\nWhat do you know?\n", "Are you assuming that families in the inner city don't have family values ?\nI sure hope not.\n\n\n", "We're about to have our first baby, and have a few questions that we\ndont seem to be able to get answered to our satisfaction. \n\nReguarding having a baby boy circumsized, what are the medical pros\nand cons? All we've heard is 'its up to the parents'.\n\nHow about the pregnant woman sitting in a tub of water? We've heard \nstories of infection, etc. How about after the water has broken?\n", "I have been struck down this past week by a stomach bug and fever\nwhich went away quickly when treated with an antibiotic. The\npharmacist told me the antibiotic is effective against a wide\nvariety of \"gram-negative bacteria.\" I was wondering where I\nmight have acquired such a bacteria. Could they hang out in swimming-\npool water, or would the chlorine kill them? \n\nFeeling better, I am", "A > From some of the replies to my original posting, it's evident that some\nA > people do not secrete enough mucous to keep their nose lining protected\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ \n Include small amounts of hot, spicy foods with your meals. It's\n not a cure, but many people find it helpful to create extra mucus.\n You may also consider taking a few drops of iodine in juice or water \n (consult your doctor first!), which is available OTC in Canada.\n If you have a sedentary lifestyle, exercising sometimes helps.\n\nA > from environmental influences (ie, dry air). But I've had no responses\nA > from anyone with experience with Rutin. Is there another newsgroup that\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nA > might have specifics on herbal remedies?\nA > \nA > Robert Allison\n\n I tried to e-mail you, but our board is having internet problems,\n so I'm not sure whether you got the information on rutin or not.\n \n Rutin is NOT a herb, but part of the bioflavonoid complex. You should\n generally *not* take rutin by itself, but take the whole bioflavonoid \n complex instead. If you don't (and there are some exceptions to that)\n you'll eventually create a hesperidin deficiency, which is the other\n major component of the bioflavonoid complex.\n I found out the hard way years ago when I recommended rutin, after it\n showed deficient in patients who were NOT deficient in hesperidin be-\n fore. A later retest almost always showed a subsequent deficiency in \n hesperidin, which, from then on, made me always *add* bioflavonoids \n to anyone that had *very* low levels of rutin.\n Most of the time people are equally low in rutin *and* hesperidin, so\n there is really no reason to take rutin by itself, but use the whole\n bioflavonoid complex instead.\n\n I have several thousand patients taking them with many claiming that \n they had been helped with hemorrhoids, varicose veins, chronic nose \n bleeds, aneurysms, gastro-intestinal bleeding (due to drugs), etc...\n One patient in desperation took a whole bottle (100's) in one day\n for his painful, bleeding hemorrhoids, without any ill effects.\n \n They are also non-toxic in very high amounts, that's why they can\n be safely recommended. If you are allergic to citrus fruit (they are\n made from their peels), pine bark sources are available as well.\n\n About 90% of patients tested show a bioflavonoid deficiency, \n with the average daily dosage needed being about 1 - 2,000mg.\n For major complaints, 4 - 6,000mg+/day is common.\n \n In case they cannot be taken, because of their size and taste (they\n are big, and they don't taste that great), a product made from pine \n bark extract gives you the same effect and the tablets are quite\n small and taste much better, however the cost is about seven times\n higher for the equivalent effect. One 25mg tablet of the pine bark\n extract gives you about the same effect as 1,000mg of bioflavonoids.\n The name for the pine bark product is 'Pycnogenol.'\n \n Some Canadian brands carrying bioflavonoids are:\n \n Quest.............1,000mg big, bitter, not chewable\n Swiss Herbal........600mg smooth, easier swallowing \n Jamieson............500mg medium, bitter, chewable \n\n SISU.................25mg (Pycnogenol) small, easy swallowing\n \n Give them a try and see what happens.....and good luck!\n\n -- Ron Roth --\n =====================================================================\n -- Internet: rn.3228@rose.com - Rosenet: ron roth@rosehamilton --\n\n * \"Eating Radium has strange results,\" Tom said brightly.", "\n\n\nI would say there are also significant numbers of unscrupulous doctors (of\nthe squeaky-clean, traditional crew-cut, talk to the AMA before starting\nany treatment, kind) who recommend treatments that, though \"accepted\", may\nnot be necessary for the patient at the time. And all for making a quick\nbuck. I would not be surprised if the cost of medical services in the U.S. is\nsignificantly inflated by these \"quacks of a different color\". In fact, I'd\nsay these doctors are the most dangerous since they call into question the\ntrue focus of the medical profession. The AMA and the Boards should focus\non these \"quacks\" instead of devoting unbelievable energy on 'search-and-\ndestroy-missions' to pull the licenses of those doctors who are trying non-\ntraditional or not fully accepted treatments for their desperate patients\nthat traditional/accepted medicine cannot help.\n\n\n***************************************************\nNow to make a general comment on many recent posts:\n***************************************************\n\nLately I've seen the word \"quack\" bandied about recklessly. When a doctor or\ndoctor-wanna-be has decided to quit discussing any controversial medical\nsubject in a civilized manner, all he/she has to do is say \"quack-quack\" and\nsomehow they magically expect the readership of this newsgroup to roll over\non their backs and pee-pee on themselves in obedience. What do they teach\nyou in medical school - how to throw your authority around?\n\nLet me put it another way to make my point clear: \"quack\" is a nebulous word\nlacking in any precision. Its sole use is to obfuscate the issues at hand.\nThe indiscriminate use of this word is a sure sign of incompetency; and coming\nfrom any medical doctor (or wanna-be), where competency is expected, is real\nscary.\n\nBut what do I know, I've already been diagnosed by the sci.med.gods in this\nnewsgroup as being 'anal retentive', and 'psychotic'. I look forward to more\nnet.diagnoses. Hey, they're free.\n\n\nJon \"Quacks 'R Us\" Noring\n\n\n(p.s., may I suggest - seriously - that if the doctors and wanna-be-doctors on\nthe net who refuse to have an open mind on alternative treatments and\ntheories, such as the \"yeast theory\", should create your own moderated group.\nYou can call it sci.med.traditional.moderated or sci.med.AMA-approved, so you\ncan keep anal-retentives like me out of it.)\n\n-- \n\nCharter Member --->>> INFJ Club.", "\nHello, is there anybody in there? You think you have to pay for this idiot's\nproblem now, who's going to pay for the ballooning number of addicts and \nall of the associated problems with them. I don't even want to think about\nit with Hillary in the White House and an administration that \"feels our\npain\".\n\nNo harm but to himself? What about when he drives his school bus full\nof kids into a train. When he gets stoned and drives up on a sidewalk\nand kills 5 people. When he lives off me on Welfare for the rest of his\nlife.", "dillon comments that Space Food Sticks may have bad digestive properties.\n\nI don't think so. I think most NASA food products were designed to\nbe low fiber 'zero-residue' products so as to minimize the difficulties\nof waste disposal. I'd doubt they'd deploy anything that caused whole sale\nGI distress. There aren't enough plastic baggies in the world for\na bad case of GI disease.", "Iridology is descendant from a 19th-century theory which mapped certain\ndiseases to sectors of the iris of the eye. There's enough natural\nvariation in color that a skilled examiner can find indicators of\nvirtually any disease.", "\n Do you swim nude in a public swimming pool? :) I doubt sperm can\npenetrate swimsuit material, assuming they aren't immediately dispersed\nby water currents.", "\nCompartment syndrome occurs when swelling happens in a \"compartment\"\nbounded by fascia. The pressure rises in the compartment and blood\nsupply and nerves are compromised. The treatment is to open the\ncompartment surgically. THe most common places for compartment\nsyndromes are the forearm and calf. It is an emergency, since\nif the pressure is not relieved, stuff will die.\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "A friend's daughter has been diagnosed with an eye disease called \"Star\nGartds\" (or something close) - it is apparently genetic, according to her,\nand affects every fourth generation.\n\nShe would appreciate any information about this condition. If anything is\navailable via ftp, please point me in the right direction..", "\nJB> RR> \"I don't doubt that the placebo effect is alive and well with\nJB> RR> EVERY medical modality - estimated by some to be around 20+%,\nJB> RR> but why would it be higher with alternative versus conventional\nJB> RR> medicine?\"\nJB> \nJB> Because most the the time, closer to 90% in my experience, there is no\nJB> substance to the 'alternative' intervention beyond the good intentions of the\nJB> practitioner, which in itself is quite therapeutic. [.......]\nJB>\nJB> John Badanes, DC, CA\nJB> romdas@uclink.berkeley.edu\n\n Well, if that's the case in YOUR practice, I have a hard time \n figuring out how you even managed to make it into the bottom half\n of your class, or did you create your diplomas with crayons?\n \n If someone runs a medical practice with only a 10% success rate,\n they either tackle problems for which they are not qualified to\n treat, or they have no conscience and are only in business for\n fraudulent purposes.\n\n OTOH, who are we kidding, the New England Medical Journal in 1984\n ran the heading: \"Ninety Percent of Diseases are not Treatable by\n Drugs or Surgery,\" which has been echoed by several other reports.\n No wonder MDs are not amused with alternative medicine, since\n the 20% magic of the \"placebo effect\" would award alternative \n practitioners twice the success rate of conventional medicine...\n\n --Ron--", "\nBut it is quite a leap in logic to observe one situation where anecdotal\nevidence led nowhere and therefore conclude that anecdotal evidence will\nNEVER lead anywhere. I'm sure somebody here can provide an example where\nanecdotal evidence (and the interpretation of it) was upheld/verified by\nfollow-on rigorous clinical trials.\n\n\n\nGood point. There has been a tendency by some on this newsgroup to \"circle\nthe wagons\" to the viewpoint that anecdotal medical evidence is worthless\n(maybe to counter the claims of those who are presenting anecdotal evidence\nto support controversial subjects, such as the \"yeast hypothesis\"). But\nevidence is evidence - it requires a \"jury\" or a process to sort it out and\ndetermine the truth from the junk. Medicine must continue to strive to better\nunderstand the workings of the body/mind for the purpose of alleviating\nillness - anecdotal evidence is just one piece of the puzzle; it is not\nworthless. Rather, it can help focus limited resources in the right direction.\n\nJon Noring\n\n-- \n\nCharter Member --->>> INFJ Club.", "\n\n\nBoth of these symptoms are related - tachycardia. Getting a flushed\nface is due to the heart pumping the blood faster than a regular\npulse. I suspect this is related to an increase in sodium levels in\nthe blood, since note *sodium chloride* monosodium glutamate. Both are\nsodium compounds. Our bodies require sodium, but like everything else,\none can get too much of a good thing.\n\n\nAgain, this could be related to increased blood flow from increased\nheart rate, from the sodium in the MSG. Distended crainial arteries,\nessentially. One of many causes of headaches. There is no discrepency\nher, necessarily.\n\n\n\nWell stomache ache and vomiting tend to be related. Again, not\nnecessarily a discrepency. More likely a related reaction. Vomiting\noccurs as a response to get rid of a noxious compound an organism has\neaten. If a person can't digest the stuff (entirely possible - the\nlist of stuff people are allergic to is quite long), and lacks an\nenzyme to break it down, gastrointestinal distress (stomach or belly\nache) would be expected.\n\n\n\n\nThese are respiratory reactions, and are now considered to be similar\nto vomitting. They are a way for the body to dispose of noxious\ncompounds. They are adaptiove responses. Of course, it is possible\nsome other food or environmental compound could be responsible for the\nsymptoms. But it's important to remember that a lot opf these effets\ncan be additive, synergystic, subtractive, etc, etc. It would be\nnecessary to know exactly what was in a dish, and what else the person\nwas exposed to. Respiratory does sound suspicious BUT resopiration\nand heart rate are connected. Things in the body are far from\nsimple...very inetractive place, the vertebrate body.\n \n\nPeople respond in a myriad of ways to the same compound. It depends\nupon what it is about the compound that \"pisses off\" their body.\nPollen, for example, of some plants aggrivates breathing in many\npeople, because, when inhaled, it sets of the immune system, and an\nhistamine attack is launched. The immune system goes overboard,\ncausing the allergic person a lot of misery. And someone with an\nallergy to some pollens will have trouble with some herb teas that\ncontain pollens (Chamomile, linden, etc). Drinking the substance can\nperturb that person's system as much as inhaling it. \n\n\nSee above. And don't think that heart rate changes, and circulatory\nproblems are not serious. They can be deadly.\n\nand brain damage. \n\nThe area of the brain effected is the neuroendocrine system\ncontrolling the release of gonadotropin, the supra-hormone controlling\nthe cyclical release of testosterone and estradiol, as well as somatostatin,\nand other steroids. Testing for effective dose would be, uh, a wee bit unethical.\n\n\npoisoning. \n\nAbsolutely. But it could also be some synergystic mess from eating ,\nsay, undetected shrimp or mushrooms (to which many are allergic), plus\ntoo much alcohol, and inhaling too much diesel fumes biking home,\nplus, let's say, having contracted flu from one's sig. other 3 days\nbefore from drinking out of the same glass. Could be all sorts of\nthings.\n\nBut it might be the MSG. \n\n\nIf noone else got sick, its likely not food poisoning. Probably\nstomach flu or an undetected thing the guy's allergic to.\n\n\nAnyway, the human body's not a machine; people vary widely in their\nresponses, and a lot of reactions are due to combinations of things.", "Resinfo (research and information) is currently seeking contact\n_IN_ the United Kingdom with researchers of 'phenylanine', or is\nthis amino acid uninspiring?", "\n\nHere in Georgia, the state legislature in 1992 \"accidentally passed a law \nlobbied for by Opthamologists prohibiting anyone but a licensed MD from\ngiving shots. They were trying to limit Optometrists from competing with\nthem.\nThey inadvertantly forbade nurses, EMTs, dentists, and tattoo artists \nfrom \"piercing the skin.\" (probably diabetics too). The Secretary of State's \noffice announced on June 30th that they wouldn't enforce it pending\nreconsideration in the 1003 Legislature. In the hassle over the state flag\nI heard nothing about repealing it.\n", "\nAlso if they don't get it exactly right or your eyes change\nagain, contacts to correct for it are out of the question.\nThis is due to the strange conical shape your cornea takes\nafter the surgery.\n\n--\nMichael Manning\nmmanning@icomsim.com (NeXTMail accepted.)", "Does anyone on this newsgroup happen to know WHY morphine was\nfirst isolated from opium? If you know why, or have an idea for where I\ncould look to find this info, please mail me.\n\tCSH\nany suggestionas would be greatly appreciated\n\n--\n \"Kilimanjaro is a pretty tricky climb. Most of it's up, until you reach\nthe very, very top, and then it tends to slope away rather sharply.\"\n\t\t\t\t\tSir George Head, OBE (JC)", "\nHi Janet,\n\nSounds exactly like mine. Same circumstance, same onset symptoms, \nsame cafergot uselessness, same duration. In fact, of all the people\nI know who have migraines, none have been so similar. There is such\na wide variation between people with respect to what causes their\nheadaches, that I generally don't bother sharing what I've learned\nabout mine, but since ours seem to be alike, here are my observations.\n\nI don't think it's heat, per se (I've had more in winter than summer).\nDehydration could conceivably figure, though. Try tanking up before\nplaying rather than after.\n\nBeing in shape doesn't seem to help me much, either.\n\nI've identified four factors that do make a difference (listed in \ndescending order of importance):\n\n1) Heavy exercise\n2) Sleep deprivation\n3) Fasting\t\t(e.g., skipped breakfast)\n4) Physical trauma\t(e.g., head bonk)\n\nHeavy exercise has preceded all of my post-adolescent migraines, but I \ndon't get migraines after every heavy exercise session. One or more of \nthe other factors *must* be present (usually #2). Since I discovered \nthis, I've been nearly migraine-free -- relapsing only once every two \nor three years when I get cocky (\"It's been so long, maybe I just don't \nget them anymore\") and stop being careful.\n\nHope this is helpful.", "\nOne should be aware that foreign doctors admitted for training\nare ineligible to apply for resident alien status. In order\nto get the green card they have to return to their country and\napply at the embassy there. Of course, many somehow get around\nthis problem. Often it is by agreeing to practice in a town\nwith a need and then the congressman from that district tacks\na rider onto a bill saying \"Dr. X will be allowed to have permanent\nresidency in the US.\" A lot of bills in congress have such riders\nattached to them. Marrying a US citizen is the most common, although\nnow they are even cracking down on that and trying to tell US\ncitizens they must follow their spouse back to the Phillipines, or\nwhereever.\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "It is not true that dermatologists gave not reached the laser age, in\nfact, lasers in dermatological surgery is a very new and exciting field.\n\nIt probably won't be effective in tinea pedis because the laser is\nusually a superficial burn (to avoid any deeper damage). Limited tinea\npedis can be cured albeit sometimes slowly by topical antifungals as\nwell as systemic medication i.e. tablets. Finally, a self-diagnosis is\nnot always reliable, lichen simplex chronicus can look like a fungal\ninfection and requires very different treatment.", "I have seen Copper Bracelet by the name of Sabona created by Dr. John\nSorenson. I am looking for literature on the effectiveness of Copper\nBracelet in dealing with Arthritis. \n\nI know in one case a 70-year old person developed bruise at the base of her\nleft thumb after wearing the copper bracelet on her left wrist for several\nmonths. She was told the bruise is \"normal\" and would disappear. \n\nIs the bruise reason to be concerned?\nShould the person discontinued wearing the copper bracelet?\nCould anyone kindly point me to literature on copper bracelet?\nWhat are the other information on copper bracelet?\n\nYour response would be very much appreciated.\n\nThank you.\n\nLau Hon-Wah", "\nDepression can also have various chemical (environmental) components.\nI noticed that I became depressed in various buildings, and at home\nwhen the air conditioning was on. Subsequent testing revealed that\nI was allergic to stemphyllium, a mold commonly found in air conditioners.\nAfter I began taking antigens, that problem disappeared.", "\nWhen kids stayed in the home until kindergarden or 1st grade, infection \nincidence was much lower because exposure was lower. Some studies suggest \nthat early exposure to various infectious diseases is probably beneficial \nbecause exposure as an adult carries much more risk of morbitity and \nmortality(mumps, measles. etc.).\n\n\nDaycare will always carry a higher exposure risk than home care.\n\n\nExposure to infectious organisms does build immunity. But many viruses \nmutate and reexposure to the new strain requires another immune response(\nnew antibody production). In addition, antibody levels tend to decline \nwith time and re-innoculation is needed to keep the antibody levels high.\nChronic overstimulation of the immune response can lead to immunosupression \nbut this is rare and very unlikely to occur in children.\n\n\nYes, chronic use of antibiotics can have an adverse effect on the good \nbacteria that are supposed to be present in and on the body. Health effects \nof this depletion of the good bacteria is a very hotly debated topic in the \nmedical community with most physicians seeming to discount any health effects \nof chronic antibiotic use( a view that I do not support).\n \n\nChronic infection in an adult or a child needs to be worked up( in my \nopinion). But most physicians feel that chronic infection in a child is \nnormal because of both exposure and lack of prior immunity to many \ninfectious diseases. I do not share this view and there are some \nphysicians who also suspect that diet plays a big role in infection \nfrequency and severity. Exposure to an infectious agent does not have to \nresult in a severe infection. A strong immune response can minimize the \nlength of time needed to deal with the infection as well as the symptoms \nassociated with the infection.\n\n\nThere are five major nutrients that are responsible for a good strong \nimmune response to infectious agents. They are: protein, vitamin C, \nvitamin A, iron and zinc. The American diet is not low in protein so this \nis rarely a problem. But vitamin A, vitamin C, iron and zinc are often low \nand this lack of an adequate pool(nutrient reserve) can impair the immune \nresponse. Iron is know to be low in most kids(as is vitamin A). There are \ndistinct biochemical tests that can be run to check the status of each of \nthese nutrients in a patient who is having a problem with chronic severe \ninfection. Serum ferritin for iron status, dark adaptation for vitamin A \nstatus, red blood cell zinc for zinc status and leckocyte ascorbate for \nvitamin C status. I have attempted to work up posts on these five \nnutrients and their role in infection for this news group as well as the \nothers that I participate in. I can e-mail you what I've worked up so far.\nBut my best advice to you is to try to find a physician who recognizes the \ncritical role that diet plays in the human immune response. You may also \nbe able to get help from a nutritionist. Anyone can call themselves a \nnutritionist so you have to be very carefull. You want to find someone(\nlike myself) who has had some formal training and education in nutrition.\nMany Ph.D. programs in the U.S. now offer degrees in Nutrition and that's \nwhat you need to look for. Some dieticians will also call themselves \nnutritionists but most dieticians have not had the biochemical training \nneeded to run specialized nutritional assessment tests. They are very good \nfor getting general dietary advice from however.\n", "\n\tProof that the entire private sector is vastly more inefficient?\n\n\n\tBlue Cross is the government health insurance provider.\n\n\tOops.\n\n\t[Ads for Z magazine deleted to Save the Earth]", ":\n\n\n\nWhen McManus says, \"We have the world's best medical care,\" I can hardly\nbelieve he's referring to a system:\n\n1. That costs us 14 percent of our GDP, while there isn't a\n single other country in the industrialized world that spends more than\n 10 percent.\n\n2. That leaves 37 million of us with no coverage, even though all\n the other systems in the industrialized world cover virtually everyone.\n\n3. Yet, Americans rank near the bottom of the list in terms of life\n expectancy, childhood immunization rate, infant mortality, and many\n preventable diseases.\n\n4. We pay, on average, about $1000 each for MRIs. (To put that in\n perspective, they cost $177 in Japan.)\n\n5. The average US company spends over 2500 dollars a year per employee on\n health benefits. Seven hundred to 1500 is the range just about everywhere\n else.\n\n\nHow can anyone say that such a system is the best in the world? The only\nthing the USA health care system is good at is showering well-insured patients\nwith a champagne treatment of care and outrageously overcharging for it. And\nthe \"private\" system of insurers and paperwork is so bloated and inefficient\nthat it itself sucks up over 100 billion dollars a year in money from every\nother sector of society - individuals, government, and industry.\n\nOf the < 800 billion dollars Americans threw into the bottomless pit of health\ncare costs last year, the Consumer's Union estimated that at least 200 billion\nwas thrown away on overpriced, useless, and even downright harmful tests and\nprocedures, and the most bureaucratic, regulated insurance system in the world.\n\nThere are more than 1200 different private insurers in the USA. But did the\n\"private competition\" stimulate more efficient paperwork? Ask any doctor\nwho's had to hire a full-time clerk to deal with it all!\n\nThe competition among hospitals is driving costs UP, not down. The\ncompetition among hospitals for both doctors and patients has encouraged the\nhospitals to traffic in expensive superfluous equipment. Spending millions on\nexpensive machines of dubious value that spend 80 percent of the day idle\nisn't my idea of the world's best health care system.\n\nCompetition among specialists is driving them to perform dangerous and\nexpensive procedures where they are very marginally helpful. I'm especially\nthinking of heart surgery and some women's surgeries like hysterectomy and\nCesarean section. Sound like the world's best health care system?\n\n\n\nEver notice how, every time someone tries to bring about some real change in\nhealth care, the Libbies start bashing Canada's system? First of all, Hillary\nClinton is not advocating another Canadian system. I think that's been made\nabundantly clear in the news for the last couple of months. Where did John F.\nMcManus get that idea, anyway?\n\nLet's say you're a Canadian living in a small town near the USA border. Your\nchild needs a complicated procedure only available in city hospitals. The\nnearest Canadian cities are 6 hours west and 20 hours east, and there's an\nAmerican city one hour south. Which way are you going to go? Is it because\nthe American system is the \"best\" in the world, or just for convenience?\n\nIt still amazes me that people can't seem to see more than just black and\nwhite on health care reform. There are a million different ways we ould\nrestructure the system. It's not just a choice between total government\ncontrol and total private control. I wish the people screaming \"socialized\nmedicine\" every time soemone wants to change the current syste would INFORM\nTHEMSELVES on health care issues.\n\n\n\nThe current system sucks. I want to keep providers private but that doesn't\nchange the fact that we will never be able to deal with the deficit if we\ndon't REFORM THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM. Purely private health care without any\ngovernment intervention doesn't work. Hillary Clinton is not thinking of\nnationalizing providers or evern insurers. How can you scream \"socialized\nmedicine\" at her programs? Don't you even know what you're talking about?\n\n\n\nEver see Clinton's graphs of projected deficit versus year for the rest of the\ndecade? Notice how the line falls, then starts increasing? Why? I'll give\nyou one wild guess as to which component of spending will overwhelm us if we\ndon't do something about it.\n\n\n\nPEOPE JUST DOESN'T GET IT. The current health care system is a cancer which is\nkilling our economic well-being. Costs are still rising 10 percent a year\neven as Americans by the tens of millions go without, or are forced into\nmanaged-care programs, which are certainly pretty socialized already if you\nask me.\n\nA couple of months ago I posted a message asking any Hillary-bashers to please\ncome forward and present (no gimmicks, straight talk) just how THEY would set\nabout keeping costs down. I didn't get a single answer.\n\nThe only thing I keep hearing from Libbie organizations are press releases\nfilled with evasive platitudes like \"give health care back to the people.\"\nJust do you expect to do that without serious reforms? What is it about the\ncurrent system that you would change and how would that help?\n\n\nHow can anyone read the news, live under our system, and NOT see these faults?\nHow can we deal with the deficit, our cities, our educational system, our\ninfrastrucure, AIDS, modernizing our industry, etc. if we don't quit throwing\naway money which could be used to SOLVE those problems?\n\n\nAmerica needs health care reform NOW. Don't just sit there and Hillary-bash,\ninform yourself!\n\nJim Reynolds\n\n", "\n\n\nWhile religion certainly has some benefits in a combat situation, what are\nthe benefits of cocaine?", "\nI've seen children do this and wondered about something. If the\nmucus in one's nose collects (filters) particles going into the\nairway, if a child then picks and ingests this material, might\nit have a vaccinatory effect, since if the body ingests airborne\ndiseases or other 'stuff' on the mucus, the body might generate\nantibodies for this small \"invasion\"?\n\nMaybe this is why some children don't get sick very often? :-)\n - tom", "\nUndoubtedly. In fact, it is the fact that hospitals frequently compete\nfor physicians rather than for patients that (in part) complicates and \nundermines a simplistic free-market analysis of the market for medical care.\n\n\nOnce again, there is no evidence that this is true in regard to kidney\ndialysis. Although price controls have promoted an expansion of services\nto a much greater volume of patients, RD is still a profitable service.\nOtherwise, one would expect to see evidence of rationing rather than the\nvast expansion that has occurred.\n\n\nCan you spell \"loss leader?\" I knew you could. Grocery stores do not\nattempt to make up the loss on an individual product by selling more of\nit. In fact, your argument above is that kidney dialysis is a loss leader \nfor other medical treatments where lost revenue can be regained. \n\nBut the evidence does not support this contention. Rather, it appears that\nprice controls have disciplined the market by forcing an expansion of\nservice and development of improved lower-cost technology to provide \ncomparable benefits. Providers continue to profit from RD, they simply\nmake less on each treatment than they would have if the price had \nrisen at the rate that uncontrolled treatments have.\n\nThere is no question that had price controls forced the price of RD \nsubstantially below its actual cost that some or all of the doomsday\npredictions of free-market advocates would have been seen -- restriction\nof service, lagging technological development, etc. Likewise, it appears\nthat in the VA and armed forces medical care systems, where providers \nare government agencies, some of these negative impacts may occur. \n(RD patients in the VA system in Spokane, for example, must travel to\nSeattle, 300 miles away, for treatment.) \n\nThe bottom line, however, is that this is an example of government \nintervention (of a rather extreme sort) that appears to have had beneficial\nresults for both providers and consumers. Claims that \"government\nbureaucracy\" inevitably leads to undesirable outcomes in the marketplace\nshould take such such cases into account.\n\njsh\n", "I have a friend who has a very pronounced slouch of his upper back. He\nalways walks and sits this way so I have concluded that he is\nhunchback.\nIs this a genetic disorder, or is it something that people can correct.\ni.e. is it just bad posture that can be changed with a bit of will\npower?\n\n\n\n", "\n\n\nYes, there is such a thing as eye dominance, although I am not sure if\nthis dominance refers to perscription strength.\n\nAs i recall, if you selectively close your dominant eye, you will percieve\nthat the image shifts. This will not happen if you close your other eye.\n\nI believe that which eye is dominant is related to handedness, but I\ncan't recall the relation at the moment.\n\n", "Subject: options before back surgery for protruding disc at L4-L5\nFrom: Alex Miller, amiller@almaden.ibm.com\nDate: 13 Apr 93 18:30:42 GMT\nrest\n\nYou don't say whether or not you have any symptoms other than pain.\nIf you have numbness, weakness or bladder problems, for example,\nthese would suggest a need for surgery. If pain is your only symptom\nyou might do well to find a reputable, multi-disciplinary pain\nclinic in your area. Chronic low back pain generally doesn't do well\nwith surgery, acute on chronic pain (as only symptom) doesn't fare\nmuch better.\ne correlation between MRI findings and symptoms is controversial.", "\nI second what Spenser Aden said in reply. Additionally, it is hard to say\nwhat type of response you ar3e having to prednisone since you did not say\nhow long you have been on it. Patients are generally kept on steroids for\nmonths before thinking about tapering. Alternatives to daily dosing are \nevery other day dosing, in your case 20mg every other day would be a start.\nAnother option if it is not possible to get you off prednisone is to start\nazathioprine. Like Spenser said, you should generally be on another drug\nin addition to your prednisone, like asulfidine. A lot of the specifics\nabout options, though, depends on severity, location, and duration of \ndisease, as well as histology, so take advice off the net for what it\nis worth. \n\nI treat patients with UC and Crohn's. An educated patient is a good \npatient, but let your doctor know where the advice came from so things\ncan be put in context. You should also be a member of the Crohn's and\nColitis Foundation of America. 1-800-932-2423 office / 1-800-343-3637\ninfo hotline.\n\nBest of Luck to you.", "-*----\n\nThe millipede's around here (Austin) have no sting. Some of the\ncentipedes do. The question Rebecca Snyder asks is much like\nasking \"How venomous are snakes?\" One either wants to ask \"which\nsnake?\" or point to some reference on the many different species\nof snake. Similarly, there are many different species of\nmillipede and centipede. (These are different families;\nmillipedes have two pairs of legs per body segment, while\ncentipedes have but one pair.)\n\nSorry if this information is not useful.", "\nOne possible reason is that file' is made with sassafras leaves, while root\nbeer was made with sassafras bark or root bark. The leaves contain either\nno\nor less saffrole than the bark.\n\nThere is also some sort of treatment which putatively removes saffrole from\nsassafras products. I have some concentrated sassafras tea extract which\nis\nclaimed to have the saffrole removed.\n\n\nWell, the last time that I went to the store to buy sassafras bark to make \nroot beer, there was a sign saying that it wasn't sold for human\nconsumption.\nAlso, when I asked the person if they had wild cherry bark and wintergreen\nbark,\nshe made a point of telling me that I couldn't buy sassafras for human \nconsumption.\n\nI find the fact that some people reckless enough to step into an automobile\nlive\nin fear of dropping dead because of a pork rib quite funny, in a sick way.\n\nEric Pepke INTERNET:\npepke@gw.scri.fsu.edu\nSupercomputer Computations Research Institute MFENET: pepke@fsu\nFlorida State University SPAN: scri::pepke\nTallahassee, FL 32306-4052 BITNET: pepke@fsu", "Here is the tollfree hotline for the Epilepsy Foundation\nof America - 1-800-EFA-1000. They will be able to answer\nyour questions and send you information and references on\nseizure types, medication, etc. They can also give you references\nfor a pediatric neorologist in your area. Also ask for the \nnumber of your local Foundation who can put you in touch with\na Parent Support Group and social workers.\nGood Luck.\n", "Re: serious discussion about drugs vs. \"Where can I get a good bong, man?\"", "Am I justified in being pissed off at this doctor?\n\nLast Saturday evening my 6 year old son cut his finger badly with a knife.\nI took him to a local \"Urgent and General Care\" clinic at 5:50 pm. The \nclinic was open till 6:00 pm. The receptionist went to the back and told the \ndoctor that we were there, and came back and told us the doctor would not \nsee us because she had someplace to go at 6:00 and did not want to be delayed \nhere. During the next few minutes, in response to my questions, with several \ntrips to the back room, the receptionist told me:\n\t- the doctor was doing paperwork in the back,\n\t- the doctor would not even look at his finger to advise us on going\n\t to the emergency room;\n\t- the doctor would not even speak to me;\n\t- she would not tell me the doctor's name, or her own name;\n\t- when asked who is in charge of the clinic, she said \"I don't know.\"\n\nI realize that a private clinic is not the same as an emergency room, but\nI was quite angry at being turned away because the doctor did not want to\nbe bothered. My son did get three stitches at the emergency room. I'm still \ntrying to find out who is in charge of that clinic so I can write them a \nletter. We will certainly never set foot in that clinic again.\n", "\n\n\nI suspect you mean laparoscopic instead of orthoscopic.\n\n\n\n\n\nBy far the (still) best method to diagnose a hernia is old fashioned\nphysical examination. If you have an obvious hernia sac coming down \ninto your scrotum, or a bulge in your groin that is brought about by\nincreasing intra-abdominal pressure....\nSometimes is not that obvious. The hernia is small and you can only \ndetect it by putting your finger into the inguinal canal. \nWhether you have a recurrent hernia, or this is related to the previous\noperation, I can't tell you. The person that examined you is in the best\nposition to make that determination.\n\nAre there non-invasive ways of diagnosing a hernia? Every now and then \nfolks write about CT scans and ultrasounds for this. But these are far\ntoo expensive, and unlikely to be better than a trained examining finger.\n\n\n====================================", "\nThis is the second post which seems to be blurring the distinction\nbetween real disease caused by Candida albicans and the \"disease\"\nthat was being asked about, systemic yeast syndrome.\n\nThere is no question that Candida albicans causes thrush. It also\nseems to be the case that active yogurt cultures with acidophilous\nmay reduce recurrences of thrush at least for vaginal thrush -- I've \nnever heard of anyone taking it for oral thrush before (though \npresumably it would work by the same mechanism).\n\nCandida is clearly a common minor pathogen and a less common major\npathogen. That does not mean that there is evidence that it causes\nthe \"systemic yeast syndrome\".\n", "My girlfriend just started taking Imitrex for her migraine headaches. Her\nneurologist diagnosed her as having depression and suffering from rebound\nheadaches due to daily doses of analgesics. She stopped taking all\nanalgesics and caffine as of last Thursday (4/15). The weekend was pretty\nbad, but she made it through with the help of Imitrex about every 18 hours.\n Her third injection of Imitrex, during the worst of the withdrawl on\nFriday and six hours after the first of the day, left her very sick. Skin\nwas flushed, sweating, vomiting and had severe headache pain. It subsided\nin an hour or so. Since then, she has been taking Imitrex as needed to\ncontrol the pain. Immediately after taking it, she has increased head pain\nfor ten minutes, dizziness and mild nausea and mild chest pains. A friend\nof hers mentioned that her doctor was wary of Imitrex because it had caused\nheart attacks in several people. Apparently the mild chest pains were\ncommon in these other people prior to there attacks. Is this just rumor? \nHas anyone else heard of these symptoms? My girlfriend also has Mitral\nValve Prolapse.", "Does anyone have information about the struggles that Patti\nDuke went through in her personal life with severe mood swings.\nDid she have some form of chemical imbalance that triggered\nthese problems? I recall that she wrote a book about her troubles.\nDoes someone have the title of that book?\n\n", "Sci med people:\n \nCan I sell my TENS unit or does it have to be sold by a physician or\nother liscened person?", "\nI'm not sure it is the fluctuation so much as the estrogen level.\nTaking Premarin can certainly cause migraines in some women.\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "Is anyone out there knowledgeable on drug issues in Japan? I'm interested\nin knowing if Japan has or has ever had a problem with drugs, and how they\ndealt with it. I've heard, undocumented, that Japan years ago used heavy\nlegal penalties to end a serious heroin problem. I'd like to know both\nsides of the story. Does anyone recall such a problem? What were laws\nat the time relating to drug use, drug dealing, and drug trafficking? What\nare the laws now? What other anti-drug measures, like education and treatment\nhas Japan used? How are drugs regarded by the Japanese people? How effective\nhave anti-drug measures been in Japan? Thanks for your help.\n", "\nA freeze dried Tootsie Roll (tm). The actual taste sensation was like nothing\nyou will ever willingly experience. The amazing thing was that we ate a second\none, and a third and ....\n\nI doubt that they actually flew on missions, as I'm certain they did \"bad\nthings\" to the gastrointestinal tract. Compared to Space Food Sticks, Tang was\na gastronomic contribution to mankind.\n--\nDillon Pyron | The opinions expressed are those of the\nTI/DSEG Lewisville VAX Support | sender unless otherwise stated.\n(214)462-3556 (when I'm here) |\n(214)492-4656 (when I'm home) |God gave us weather so we wouldn't complain\npyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com |about other things.\nPADI DM-54909 |", "\n\nOh, you foolish person. I do know what the fuck I'm talking about\nand will gladly demonstrate for such ignorants as yourself if you\nwish.\n\nThe legalization of drugs will provide few if any of the benefits\nso highly taunted by its proponents: safer, cheaper drugs along\nwith revenues from taxes on those drugs; reduced crime and reduced\norganized crime specifically; etc, etc\n\nIf you would like to prove how clueless you are, we can get into\nwhy - again a lot of wasted posts that I don't think this group\nwas intended for and something easily solved by you doing a little\nresearch.\n\n\n\n\n\nMaking you look bad is too damn easy. The vast social and historical\ndifferences between alcohol and other drugs make this comparison\nworthless.\n\n\n\n\n\nAnd so it shall be if the government (by the people) decides that\nthese vices are detrimental to the society as a whole.\n\n\n", "\nTHE diarrhea problem? WHAT diarrhea problem? First, candidal overgrowth is\nnot a frequent problem during antibiotic therapy, and not all cases of\nantibiotic-related diarrhea have anything to do with candida. But a case\nof vaginal candidiasis or oral thrush after antibiotic therapy isn't going\nto surprise anyone either. That's not what people are disagreeing with.\n\n\nOh, really? Where'd you come up with this? You know, it's really\nappalling to see you try to comment authoritatively on clinical matters\nin a bizarre synthesis from reading reports in the literature.\nBobbing for citations in the research literature isn't medicine.\nI hope you're not giving the wrong idea to your medical students.\n", "\n\nI was there in 1976. I suppose it must have died out since 1946,\nthen. Certainly I never heard of any homeopaths or herbalists in\nthe employ of the NHS. Perhaps the law codified it but the authorities\nrefused to hire any homeopaths. A similar law in the US allows\nchiropractors to practice in VA hospitals but I've never seen one\nthere and I don't know of a single VA that has hired a chiropractor.\nThere are a lot of Britons on the net, so someone should be able to\ntell us if the NHS provides homeopaths for you.\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "I'm told that corn allergy is fairly common. My wife has it and it seems\nto be exacerbated if sugar is eaten with the corn.\n\nI suppose that in a person just on the verge of having epilepsy, an\nallergic reaction might cause a seizure, but I don't really know.\nGordon?\n", "\nHello, a friend is under going kemotherapy(sp?) for breast cancer. I'm\ntrying to learn what I can about it. Any info would be appreciated.\nThanks.\n", "\nYou certainly do not see OTC preparations advertised as such.\nThe only such ridiculous concoctions are nostrums for premenstrual\nsyndrome, ostensibly to treat headache and \"bloating\" simultaneously.\nThey're worthless.\n\n\nThat's not the idea, and no, they don't work.\n", "I got asked in Sci. Med. Nutrition about vitamin C and oxalate production(\ntoxic, kidney stone formation?). I decided to post my answer here as well \nbecause of the recent question about kidney stones. Not long after I got \ninto Sci. Med. I got flamed by a medical fellow for stating that magnesium \nwould prevent kidney stone formation. I'm going to state it again here.\nBut the best way to prevent kidney stones from forming is to take B6 \nsupplements. Read on to find out why(I have my asbestos suit on now guys).\n\nVitamin C will form oxalic acid. But large doses are needed (above 6 grams \nper day).\n\n\t1. Review Article \"Nutritional factors in calcium containing kidney \n\t stones with particular emphasis on Vitamin C\" Int. Clin. Nutr. Rev.\n\t 5(3):110-129(1985).\n\nBut glycine also forms oxalic acid(D-amino acid oxidases). For both \nglycine and vitamin C, one of the best ways to drastically reduce this \nproduction is not to cut back on dietary intake of vitamin C or glycine, \nbut to increase your intake of vitamin B6.\n\n\t2. \"Control of hyperoxaluria with large doses of pyridoxine in \n\t patients with kidney stones\" Int. Urol. Nephrol. 20(4):353-59(1988)\n\t 200 to 500 mg of B6 each day significasntly decreased the urinary \n\t excretion of oxalate over the 18 month treatment program.\n\n\t3. The action of pyridoxine in primary hyperoxaluria\" Clin. Sci. 38\n\t :277-86(1970). Patients receiving at least 150mg B6 each day \n\t showed a significant reduction in urinary oxalate levels.\n\nFor gylcine, this effect is due to increased transaminase activity(B6 is \nrequired for transaminase activity) which makes less glycine available for \noxidative deamination(D-amino acid oxidases). For vitamin C, the effect is \nquite different. There are different pathways for vitamin C catabolism. \nThe pathway that leads to oxalic acid formation will usually have 17 to 40% \nof the ingested dose going into oxalic acid. But this is highly variable \nand the vitamin C review article pointed out that unless the dose gets upto \n6 grams per day, not too much vitamin C gets catabolized to form oxalic \nacid. At very high doses of vitamin C(above 10 grams per day), more of the \nextra vitamin C (more than 40% conversion) can end up as oxalic acid. In a \nvery early study on vitamin C and oxalic production(Proc. Soc. Exp. Biol. \nMed. 85:190-92(1954), intakes of 2 grams per day up to 9 grams per day \nincreased the average oxalic acid excretion from 38mg per day up to 178mg \nper day. Until 8 grams per day was reached, the average excreted was \nincreased by only 3 to 12mg per day(2 gram dose, 4 gram dose, 8 gram dose \nand 9gram dose). 8 grams jumped it to 45mg over the average excretion \nbefore supplementation and 9 grams jumped it to 150 mg over the average \nbefore supplementation.\n\nB6 is required by more enzymes than any other vitamin in the body. There \nare probably some enzymes that require vitamin B6 that we don't know about \nyet. Vitamin C catabolism is still not completely understood but the \nspeculation is that this other pathway that does not form oxalic acid must \nhave an enzyme in it that requires B6. Differences in B6 levels could then \nexplain the very variable production of oxalic acid from a vitamin C \nchallenge(this is not the preferred route of catabolism). Increasing your \nintake of B6 would then result in less oxalic acid being formmed if you \ntake vitamin C supplements. Since the typical American diet is deficient \nin B6, some researchers believe that the main cause of calcium-oxalate \nkidney stones is B6 deficiency(especially since so little oxalic acid gets \nabsorbed from the gut). Diets providing 0 to 130mg of oxalic acid per day \nshowed absolutely no change in urinary excretion of oxalate(Urol Int.35:309\n-15,1980). If 400mg was present each day, there was a significant increase \nin urinary oxalate excretion.\n\n\tHere are the high oxalate foods:\n\n\t1. Beans, coca, instant coffee, parsley, rhubarb, spinach and tea.\n\t Contain at least 25mg/100grams\n\n\t2. Beet tops, carrots, celery, chocolate, cumber, grapefruit, kale, \n\t peanuts, pepper, sweet potatoe.\n\t Contain 10 to 25 mg/100grams.\n\nIf the threshold is 130mg per day, you can see that you really have a lot \nof latitude in food selection. A recent N.Eng.J. Med. article also points \nout that one good way to prevent kidney stone formation is to increase your \nintake of calcium which will prevent most of the dietary oxalate from being \nabsorbed at all. If you also increase your intake of B6, you shouldn't \nhave to worry about kidney stones at all. The RDA for B6 is 2mg per day for \nmales and 1.6mg per day for females(directly related to protein intake).\nB6 can be toxic(nerve damage) if it is consumed in doses of 500mg or more \nper day for an extended peroid(weeks to months). \n\nThe USDA food survey done in 1986 had an average intake of 1.87 mg per day \nfor males and 1.16mg per day for females living in the U.S. Coupled with \nthis low intake was a high protein diet(which greatly increases the B6 \nrequirement), as well as the presence of some of the 40 different drugs that \neither block B6 absorption, are metabolic antagonists of B6, or promote B6 \nexcretion in the urine. Common ones are: birth control pills, alcohol,\nisoniazid, penicillamine, and corticosteroids. I tell my students to \nsupplement all their patients that are going to get any of the drugs that \nincrease the B6 requirement. The dose recommended for patients taking \nbirth control pills is 10-15mg per day and this should work for most of the \nother drugs that increase the B6 requirement(this would be on top of your \ndietary intake of B6). Any patient that has a history of kidney stone \nformation should be given B6 supplements.\n\nOne other good way to prevent kidney stone formation is to make sure your \nCa/Mg dietary ratio is 2/1. Magnesium-oxalate is much more soluble than is \ncalcium-oxalate.\n\n\t4. \"The magnesium:calcium ratio in the concentrated urines of \npatients with calcium oxalate calculi\"Invest. Urol 10:147(1972)\n\n\t5. \"Effect of magnesium citrate and magnesium oxide on the \ncrystallization of calcium in urine: changes producted by food-magnesium \ninteraction\"J. Urol. 143(2):248-51(1990).\n\n\t6.Review Article, \"Magnesium in the physiopathology and treatment \nof renal calcium stones\" J. Presse Med. 161(1):25-27(1987).\n\nThere are actually about three times as many articles published in the \nmedical literature on the role of magnesium in preventing kidney stone \nformation than there are for B6. I thought that I was being pretty safe in \nstating that magnesium would prevent kidney stone formation in an earlier \npost in this news group but good old John A. in Mass. jumped all over me. I \nguess that he doesn't read the medical literature. Oh well, since kidney \nstones can be a real pain and a lot of people suffer from them, I thought \nI'd tell you how you can avoid the pain and stay out of the doctor's office.\n\nMartin Banschbach, Ph.D.\nProfessor of Biochemistry and Chairman\nDepartment of Biochemistry and Microbiology\nOSU College of Osteopathic Medicine\n1111 W. 17th Street\nTulsa, Ok. 74107", "\n\nI don't react to scallops, but did have discomforts with clam juice\nserved at (American) waterfront seafood bars. I don't know whether\nthe juice is homemade or from cans.\n\nThe following is my first encounter with the Chinese Restaurant\nSyndrome. Ten years ago, about an hour after having Won Ton Soup I\ncollapsed in a chair with my face feeling puffed up, my scalp\ntingling, my feet too weak to stand up. The symptoms lasted for about\n20 minutes. Determined to find out the cause of my first reaction, I\nwent back to the Chinese restuarant and ordered the same dish. The\nsame thing happened. A quick look inside the kitchen revealed nothing\nout of the ordinary.", "i used to say \"if i were hot enough, you could fry an egg on my oily face\".\ni am now 50 yrs old and my skin looks younger (i'm told) than some people's\nskin at 30 (it's still oily). i have only a very few tiny wrinkles. Thank\nyour lucky stars for that skin. \n", "Dear Netters:\n\nMaybe one of you can explain this. From time to time I experience \na strange kind of feeling (I have all kinds of weird feelings) which \ncan be best described as the feeling of \"losing gravity\", like that one \nexperiences in a descending elevator. Needless to say, it is not \nenjoyable. It sometimes comes with shortness of breath and extreme \nfatigue. It lasts from a few minutes to an hour and when it lasts \nthat long, it makes me sweatening.\n\nInitially I called it \"palpitation (spelling?)\" until I later learnt that \nthe terminology has been reserved for the self-awareness of heart beats.\n\nSo, is there a specific term for this feeling, or am I a stragne person?\nI always believe I am unique. \n\nThanks.", "In NZ apparently things like aftershave are also giving positive\nreadings\n\n", "\nSteve, take a look at what you are saying. I don't see one construvtive\nword here. If you don't have anything constructive to add, why waste\nthe bandwidth - yeah, sure, flame me for doing it myself. Is this\nsci.med or alt.flame? Like it or not, medical science does *not* know\ncategorically everything about everything. I'm not flaming your\nknowledge, just asking you to sit back and ask yourself \"what if?\"\n\n\"Minds are like parachutes - they only function when they are open.\"\n\nOh - and if you *do* want to flame me or anyone else, how about using\nemail?\n\nRob\nWho doesn't claim any relevant qualifications, just interest\n--", "Does the Proventil inhaler for asthma relief fall into the steroid\nor nonsteroid category? Looking at the product literature it's\nnot clear.", "\nNo. That these drugs happen to be useful as antidepressants is neither\nhere nor there.\n", "This is generally called phimosis..usually it is due to an inflammation, and ca\nn be retracted in the physician's offfice rather eaaasily. One should see a GP\n, or in complicated cases, a urologist.\n", "Gordon Banks:\n\nThis certainly describes my situation perfectly. For me there is\na constant dynamic between my tendency to eat, which appears to\nbe totally limitless, and the purely conscious desire to not\nput on too much weight. When I get too fat, I just diet/exercise\nmore (with varying degrees of success) to take off the\nextra weight. Usually I cycle within a 15 lb range, but\nsmaller and larger cycles occur as well. I'm always afraid\nthat this method will stop working someday, but usually\nI seem to be able to hold the weight gain in check.\nThis is one reason I have a hard time accepting the notion\nof some metabolic derangement associated with cycle dieting\n(that results in long-term weight gain). I have been cycle-\ndieting for at least 20 years without seeing such a change.\n\nI think a vigorous exercise program can go a long way toward\nkeeping the cycles smaller and the baseline weight low.", "\nVida> Can one develop inner-ear problems from too much flying? I hear\nVida> that pilots and steward/esses have a limit as to the maximum\nVida> number of flying hours -- what are these limits? What are the\nVida> main problems associated with too many long-haul (over 4 hours)\nVida> trips?\n\nThe crew rest requirements are to prevent undue fatigue. The cockpit\ncrew (pilot) limits are somewhat more stringent than the cabin crew\nlimits for this reason. Crew rest requirements address amount of time\non duty plus rest time. A tired crew is an accident-prone crew.\n\nThe only limits I know of for inner-ear problems are in military\naircraft, which are frequently unpressurized or less reliably\npressurized. Not being able to clear the ears renders aircrew members\nDNIF (duties not involving flying) or grounded until the ears clear.\n\nFlying can accentuate problems if ears don't clear. If you don't have\nbig pressure changes, you may not know that you've got a problem. But\nif you zip up to 5,000 or 6,000 ft (the usual cabin altitude in an\nairliner) and then back down to sea level, you may discover a problem.\nEars don't clear readily because of allergies, colds, infections, and\nanatomical problems. The last won't change; the first three can.\nMedication (decongestants or antihistimines, usually) can help.\nChewing gum, sucking hard candy (or a bottle for babies),\nyawning--these will help all four causes.\n\n", "To: turpin@cs.utexas.edu (Russell Turpin)\n\n RT> o Those administering the treatment do not know which subjects \n RT> receive a placebo or the test treatment.\n\nIt seems to me that many drugs have such severe side effects that \nit might not be possible to keep the doctors from knowing who is \ngetting the true drug. This is especially true of the drugs used \nfor \"mental\" illnesses.", "\nPurists often distinguish between \"true\" clubbing and \"pseudo\"\nclubbing, the difference being that with \"true\" clubbing the\nangle of the nail when viewed from the side is constantly\nnegative when proceeding distally (towards the fingertip).\nWith \"pseudo\" clubbing, the angle is initially positive, then\nnegative, which is the normal situation. \"Real\" internists\ncan talk for hours about clubbing. I'm limited to a couple\nof minutes.\n\nWhether this distinction has anything to do with reality is\nentirely unclear, but it is one of those things that internists\nlove to paw over during rounds. Supposedly, only \"true\" clubbing\nis associated with disease. The problem is that the list of\ndiseases associated with clubbing is quite long, and includes\nboth congenital conditions and acquired disease. Since many of\nthese diseases are associated with cardiopulmonary problems\nleading to right to left shunts and chronic hypoxemia, it is\nvery reasonable to get a chest xray. However, many of the \ncongenital abnormalities would only be diagnosed with a cardiac\ncatheterization. \n\nThe cause of clubbing is unclear, but presumably relates to\nsome factor causing blood vessels in the distal fingertip to\ndilate abnormally. \n\nClubbing is one of those things from an examination which is\na tipoff to do more extensive examination. Often, however,\nthe cause of the clubbing is quite apparent.", "\nNothing unisual.\nQuote:\n\"\nChinese Restaurant Syndrome (CRS):\na transient syndrome, associated with arterial dilatation, due to ingestion\nof monosodium glutamate, which is used liberally in seasoning chinese\nfood; it is characterized by throbbing of the head, lightheadedness,\ntightness of the jaw, neck and shoulders, and bachache.\n\"\nEnd quote.\nSource: Dorland's Illustrated Medical Dictionary, 27th edition, 1988, W.B. Saunders, p 1632.\n\nThis was known long ago. Brain produces and uses some MSG naturally,\nbut not in doses it is served at some chinese places. \nHaving said that, i might add, that in MHO, MSG does not enhance\nflavor enoughf for me to miss it. When I go to chinese places,\nI order food without MSG. Goos places will do it for you.\nA prerequisite for such a service would be a waiter, capable of\nunderstanding, what you want.\n\n\nGood Luck.\n\n\nam", "\nMany people responded with more anecdotal stories; I think its safe to\nsay the original poster is already familiar with such stories.\nPresumably, he wants hard info to substantiate or refute claims about\nMSG making people ill. \n\nSimilarly, debunking such claims without doing research (whether\nliterature and lab), is equally beside the point. The original poster\nno doubt already knows that some people think 'Chinese Restaurant\nSyndrome' is bogus.\n\nPlacebos are all very interesting, but irrelevant to the question of\nwhat effects MSG has. You could have real effects *and* placebo\neffects; people may have allergies in addition. \n\n\nHave you read Olney's work? I fail to see how citing results from\npeer-reviewed studies qualifies as \"bizarrely cracked\".\n\n\nTests have been done on Rhesus monkeys, as well. I have never seen a\nstudy where the mode of administration was intra-ventricular. The Glu\nand Asp were administered orally. Some studies used IV and SC.\nIntra-ventricular is not a normal admin. method for food tox. studies,\nfor obvious reasons. You must not have read the peer-reviewed works\nthat I referred to or you would never have come up with this brain\ninjection bunk.\n\n\nPardon me, but where are you getting this from? Have you read the\njournals? Have you done a thorough literature search?\n\nBut, you're right, mice aren't the best to study this on. They're four\ntimes less sensitive than humans to MSG.\n\n\nThe point is exceeding the window. Of course, they're amino acids.\nNote that people with PKU cannot tolerate any phenylalanine.\n\nOlney's research compared infant human diets. Specifically, the amount\nof freely available Glu in mother's milk versus commercial baby foods,\nvs. typical lunch items from the Standard American Diet such as packaged\nsoup mixes. He found that one could exceed the projected safety margin\nfor infant humans by at least four-fold in a single meal of processed\nfoods. Mother's milk was well below the effective dose.\n\n\n\nBetween who? Over what? I would be most interested in seeing you\nprovide peer-reviewed non-food-industry-funded citations to articles\ndisputing that MSG has no effects whatsoever. \n\n\nHmm. \".com\". Why am I not surprised?", "My wife had hives during the first two months\nof her pregnancy. My son (3 months old), breast-fed,\nnow has the same symptoms. She has been to a skin-specialist,\nbut he has merely prescribed various medicines (one\neach visit as though by trial and error :-))\n\nAnti-histamines worked on both of them, but looks like\nbecoming less effective.\n\nAre there other solutions? Thanks.", "\nThis is a lovely area for anecdotes, but I am sure you are on to something.\nAs a physician, I almost never get sick: usually, when something horrendous\nis going around, I either don't get it at all or get a very mild case.\nWhen I do get really sick, it is always something unusual.\n\nThis was not the situation when I was in medical school, particularly on\npediatrics. I never had younger siblings myself, and when I went on the\npediatric wards I suddenly found myself confronting all sorts of infectious\nchallenges that my body was not ready for. Pediatrics for me was three solid\nmonths of illness, and I had a temp of 104 when I took the final exam!\n\nI think what happens is that during training, and beyond, we are constantly\nexposed to new things, and we have the usual reactions to them, so that later\non, when challenged with something, it is more likely a re-exposure for us,\nso we deal with it well and get a mild illness. I don't think it is that\nthe immune system is hyped up in any way. Also, don't forget that the\nhospital flora is very different from the home, and we carry a lot of that\naround.", "What does a lack of taste of foods, or a sense of taste that seems \"off\"\nwhen eating foods in someone who has cancer mean? What are the possible\ncauses of this? Why does it happen?\n\nPt has Stage II breast cancer, and is taking tamoxifin. Also has Stage IV\nlung cancer with known CNA metastasis, and is taking klonopin (also had\ncranial radiation treatments).\n\nThanks!", "I don't know if anyone knows about this topic: electrical heart \nfailure. One of my friends has had to go to the doctor because\nhe had chest pains. The Doc said it was Arythmia. So he had to\ngo to a new york hospital for a lot of money to get treated. His\ndoctors said that he could die from it, and the medication caused\ncancer ( that he was taking). Well, I suggested that he run, excersize\nand eat more, ( he is very skinny) but he says that has nothing\nto do with it. Does anyone know what causes arythmia and how \nit can be treated?\n\t\t\tThanks \n\n", "\n[lots of editing out of previuos posts]\n\n\n\nFunny about that... my wife (my girlfriend at the time) used to get sick \nafter eating certain foods at various Asian restaurants, and never knew \nwhy. She'd go pale, and sweaty and then vomit copiously. A couple of us \nventured a connection with MSG, and her response was: \"MSG? What's that?\". \nIt also happened when she pigged out on some brands of savoury crackers and \nchips... which I noticed (later) had MSG on the label. Don't know about \ndouble blinds, but avoiding MSG has stopped her being sick at restaurants.\n\n\ncheers, John", "\nSurprise surprise, different people react differently to different things. One\nslightly off the subject case in point. My brother got stung by a bee. I know\nhe is allergic to bee stings, but that his reaction is severe localized\nswelling, not anaphylactic shock. I could not convince the doctors of that,\nhowever, because that's not written in their little rule book.\n\nI would not be surprised in the least to find out the SOME people have bad\nreactions to MSG, including headaches, stomachaches and even vomiting. Not that\nthe stuff is BAD or POISON and needs to be banned, but people need to be aware\nthat it can have a bad effect on SOME people.\n\nLone Wolf", "Also remember that most people map the\nsanguine/choleric/melencholic/phlegmatic division onto the extraversion\nand neuroticism dimensions (Like Eysenck) and that the MBTI does not\ndeal with neuroticism (Costa & McCrae).", "\nSeveral years ago I tried to commit a patient who was growing Salmonella out of his\nstool, blood, and an open ulcer for treatment. The idea was that the guy was a\nwalking public health risk, and that forcing him to receive IV antibiotics for\na few days was in the public interest. I will make a long story short by saying\nthat the judge laughed at my idea, yelled at me for wasting his time, and let\nthe guy go.\n\nI found out that tuberculosis appears to be the only MEDICAL (as oppsed to psychiatric)\ncondition that one can be committed for, and this is because very specific laws were\nenacted many years ago regarding tb. I am certain these vary from state to state.\n\nAny legal experts out there to help us on this?", "\n\nObviously, it wouldn't be of much help to treat one problem by knowingly \nintroducing another. Cancer mestastizes. My imperfect understanding of \nthe facts are that gonadal cancer is particularly dangerous in this regard. \nI haven't done the research on it, but I don't recall ever hearing of a \ncase of cancer being transmitted by a blood transfusion. Probably just a \ncommon sense kind of arbitrary precaution. Transmissable diseases like \nmalaria though are obviously another story.\n\n", "\nNo, the neiseria meningococcus is one of the most common\nforms of meningitis. It's the one that sometimes sweeps\nschools or boot camp. It is contagious and kills by attacking\nthe covering of the brain, causing the blood vessels to thrombose\nand the brain to swell up.\n\nIt is very treatable if caught in time. There isn't much time,\nhowever. The rash is the tip off. Infants are very susceptible\nto dying from bacterial meningitis. Any infant with a fever who\nbecomes stiff or lethargic needs to be rushed to a hospital where\na spinal tap will show if they have meningitis. Seizures can also\noccur.\n\n\nIt can live in the throat of carriers. Don't worry, you won't get \nit from them, especially if they took the medication.\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "i heard a news report indicating research showing improved \nhearing in people taking vitamin A. the research showed that new \ngrowth replaced damaged \"hairlike\" nerves. has anyone heard about\nthis? \n\nthanks,\nclaude", "\n\n\nIs that true? I know some that won't even interview FMGs. \nMost programs discriminate, in that given an FMG equally\nqualified as an American they will take the American. What\nrights do they actually have? Does it matter if they are\nUS citizens (most are not)? We have had good luck with FMGs\nand bad luck. SOme of our very best residents have been FMGs.\nAlso, our very worst. As it turns out, the worst FMGs are often\nUS citizens that studied in off-shore medical schools. Of the\n5 residents fired for incompetence in the 12 years I've been here \nin my department, all have been FMGs. 3 were US citizens who studied \nin Guadalajara, 1 was a US citizen but was trained in the Soviet Union, \nand one was Philipina. Unfortunately, all are now practicing medicine\nsomewhere, 3 of them in Neurology after having been picked up by \nother programs, 1 in psychiatry, and the other in emergency medicine.\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "I recently attended an allery seminar. Steroid Nasal sprays were \ndiscussed. Afterward on a one-on-one basis, I asked the speaker what if \nnone of the Vancanese, Beconase, Nasalide, Nasalcort, or Nasalchrom work \nnor do any oral decongestants work. She replied that she saw an article on \nVasomotor Rhinitis. That this is not an allergic reaction and that nothing \nother than the Afrin's and such would work. (Which in my case is true).\n\nI want to find out as much as possible about this, since I am going to see \nmy allergist in May and want to be armed to the hilt with information; \nsince nothing he has done with me has helped me at all and I have had no \nrelief for 14 months.", "\nTo maintain my senses at their sharpest, I never eat a full meal\nwithin 24 hrs of a ride. I've tried Slim Fast Lite before a \nride but found that my lap times around the Parliament Buildings suffered \n0.1 secs. The resultant 70 pound weight loss over the summer\njust sharpens my bike's handling and I can always look\nforward to a winter of carbo-loading.\n\nObligatory 8:)", "\n\tSerum, actually, but plasma numbers are the same. Whole blood\n\tnumbers for humans tend to be somewhat lower (roughly 5 to 10 \n\tpercent lower). I find the following range for whole blood in\n\tFUNDAMENTALS OF CLINICAL CHEMISTRY: N. W. Teitz, editor; W. B.\n\tSaunders, 1987:\n\n\tHuman glucose (whole blood, fasting levels) --> 60 - 95 mg./dL.\n\n\n\tIndeed, they do measure whole blood levels, although they are not\n\tas accurate as a serum test done in a laboratory. One problem is\n\tthat cells in the sample continue to metabolize glucose after the\n\tsample is drawn, reducing the apparent level. According to Teitz,\n\thowever, results compare \"reasonably well\" with laboratory results,\n\talthough \"values below 80 mg./dL. tend to be lower with strip tests,\n\twhereas values above 240 mg./dL. can be very erratic.\"\n\n\n\tAs stated above, whole blood levels tend to be roughly 5 to 10 \n\tpercent lower than serum levels. Sample freshness will affect\n\twhole blood levels, however. I don't believe there is a well-\n\tdefined \"conversion factor,\" since cell metabolism will affect\n\tsamples to varying degrees. The serum/plasma test is much \n\tpreferred for any except general \"ball park\" testing.\n", "\n A good source of information on Burzynski's method is in *The Cancer Industry*\n by pulitzer-prize nominee Ralph Moss.\n\nInteresting. What book got Moss the pulitzer nomination? None of the\nflyers for his books mention this, and none of the Cancer Chronicle\nNewsletters that I have mention this either.\n\n Also, a non-profit organization called \"People Against Cancer,\"\n which was formed for the purpose of allowing cancer patients to\n access information regarding cancer therapies not endorsed by the\n cancer industry, but which have shown highly promising results (all\n of which are non-toxic).\n\nMoss is People Against Cancer's Director of Communications. People\nAgainst Cancer seems to offer pretty questionable information, not\nexactly the place a cancer patient should be advised to turn to. Most\n(maybe all) of the infomation in their latest catalogue concern\ntreatments that have been shown to be ineffective against cancer, and\nmany of the treatments are quite dangerous as well.\n\nsdb", "\n\nOOPS. My original message died. I'll try again...\nI always understood (perhaps wrongly...:)) that the bacteria in our digestive\ntracts help us break down the components of milk. Perhaps the normal flora of \nthe intestine changes as one passes from childhood.\nIs there a pathologist or microbiologist in the house?", "\n\n\nSure there are quacks. There are quacks who don't treat and quacks who\ntreat. One's that refuse to diagnose and ones that diagnose improperly. \nThere are lucky quacks and unlucky quacks. Smart quacks and dumb ones. \n\nThere are people ahead of their time, with unprobable or unproven theories\nand rationals. There are ill-reasoned, absurd, theorists. \n\nSometimes it's hard to tell who's who. \n\nReading a book of ancient jokes it seems that doctors called other doctors\nquacks in Babylon. \n\nArguments abound when there aren't any firm answers. Plenty of illnesses\naren't, or can't, be diagnosed or treated. But I think it's better to argue\nagainst the theory, as was originally done with postings on candida a month\nor so ago. Stating the facts usually works better than simply asserting an\nopinion about someone's competency. And you can't convince everybody. \n\nSometimes a correct diagnosis\ntakes years for people: they don't run into a doctor who recognizes the\ndisease, they haven't developed something recognizable yet, or they have\nsomething that no one is going to recognize, because it hasn't been\ndescribed yet. Sometimes they get a cure, sometimes the illness wears out,\nsometimes they stumble on an improper diagnosis with the right treatment,\nsometimes they find it's incurable. \n\nThere is no profit in a patient accepting a hopeless attitude about an \nillness. Unless it's a rock solid diagnosis of terminal disease it's is\nmore like ly that a person will find a cure if they keep looking. ", "But after you have taken antihistamines for a few nights, doesn't it start\nto have a paradoxical effect? I used to take one every night for\nallergies and couldn't figure out why I developed bad insomnia. Finally\nfigured out it was the antihistamines. I would fall asleep for a few\nminutes but would awaken at the drop of a pin a little later and could not\nget back to sleep. I don't have that problem since I stopped the\nantihistamines at bedtime. ?", "Hi,\n\nThought I'd add something to the conversation. \n\nMy girlfriend used to work in a lab studying different natural carcinogens.\nShe mentioned once about the cancerous effect of barbecued food.\nBasically, she said that if you eat barbecued foods with strawberries\n(a natural carcinogen) the slight carcinogenic properties of both\ncancel out each other.\n\n--\nJeff Poupore\njtpoupor@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca\n", "\nI don't think there is a general distinction. Rather, there are\ntwo classes of chronic hepatitis: chronic active hepatitis and chronic\npersistent hepatitis. I can't think of any other disease where the\nterm persistent is used with or in preference to chronic.\n\nMuch as these two terms \"chronic active\" and \"chronic persistent\"\nsound fuzzy, the actual distinction between the two conditions\nis often fairly fuzzy as well.", "First off, if I'm not mistaken, only hibernating animals have brown fat,\nnot humans.\n\nSecondly, your description sounds just like 2,4-dinitrophenol. This is an\nuncoupler of respiratory chain oxidative phosphorylation. Put in layman's\nterms, it short-circuits the mitochondria, causing food energy to be\nturned into heat.\n\n2,4-DNP was popular in the 1930's for weight reduction. In controlled\namounts, it raises body temperature as the body compensates for the\nreduced amount of useful energy available. It is very dangerous.\nIt would be wiser to adjust to your present body form, rather than\nplay around with 2,4-DNP.", "\nAnd not only that, but if the drugs were legal we could have pharmacists instead\nof pushers selling them, and the pharmacists could be obligated to not only\ninform the purchasers of the dangers of drug use, but also show them how to use\nthe drugs in relatively safe ways. And the dangers of impurities (responsible\nfor much of the suffering that drugs cause) would be all but eliminated.\n", "\nAs you note, the research is mixed, so there is no consensus on the\nrole of fatty acids in Ulcerative colitis. There is a role for short\nchain fatty acids in patients with colostomies and rectal pouches\nthat are inflammed (Short is butyrate and shorter). There may be a role\nfor treatment of UC with Short chain fatty acids, and I am looking \nforward to the upcoming AGA meeting in Boston to see what people are\ndoing. \n\nYou raise a hypothesis about the studies and restriction of other\nfatty acids. You should contact the authors directly about that or\neven write a letter to the editor - it is a good point. By the way,\nthe abbreviation EPA is not in general use, so I do not know what \nfatty acid you are speaking about.\n\nAnd to Brian an U of C --- There is a physician named Stephen Hanauer\nthere who is a recognized expert in the treatment of IBD. You might \ngive him a call. He is interested in new combinations of drugs for \nthe treatment of IBD. If you call please say hello to him from me,\nI was looking at U of C for a position, and perhaps still am. And\nbe sure to look into joining the CCFA.\n\nBest of Luck.", "I had ankle reconstruction (grafting the extensor digitorum\nlongus to the lateral side of the ankle, along with a video\narthroscopy of the ankle (interesting to watch, to say the\nleast). Since then, I have had periodic muscle spasms (not\ncramping, but twitching that is very fast) in some of the\nmuscle groups along the lateral side, and along the top of\nmy foot. \n\nTX with quinine sulfate produced ringing in my ears, but did\nhelp with the spasms.\n\nI am on flexeril now, but no discernable help with the spasms.\n\nAny ideas?\n\nOne thing - I am in a short leg cast, so heat is not the answer.", "[bits deleted]\n\n\nI'd be fascinated to see such evidence, please send me your article!\nOn the negative side however, I suspect that any such simplistic link\n abstinence-education => decreased pregnancy,\n contraceptive-education => increased pregnancy\nis false. The US, which I'd guess has one of the largest proportion of \n\"non-liberal\" sex education in the western world also has one of the highest\nteenage pregnancy rates. (Please correct me if my guess is wrong.)\n", "has any one heard of a sedative called \"Rhoepnol\"? Made by LaRouche,\nI believe. Any info as to side effects or equivalent tranquillizers?\n\nthanks....\n-- ", "When I went thru all the spinning chair tests at JSC the PhD in charge \nwas Milt Reshke but the technician who strapped me in and, on occasion,\ninserted the \"probe\" (needle) was named Bev Bloodworth.\n\n", "\nThere has been NO hard info provided about MSG making people ill.\nThat's the point, after all.\n\n\nThat's because these \"peer-reviewed\" studies are not addressing\nthe effects of MSG in people, they're looking at animal models.\nYou can't walk away from this and start ranting about gloom and\ndoom as if there were any documented deleterious health effects\ndemonstrated in humans. Note that I wouldn't have any argument\nwith a statement like \"noting that animal administration has pro-\nduced the following [blah, blah], we must be careful about its\nuse in humans.\" This is precisely NOT what you said.\n\n\nIt most certainly is for neurotoxicology. You know, studies of\nglutamate involve more than \"food science\".\n\n\nSo, point us to the studies in humans, please. I'm familiar with\nthe literature, and I've never seen any which relate at all to\nOlney's work in animals and the effects of glutamate on neurons.\n\n\nWell, actually, they HAVE to tolerate some phenylalanine; it's a\nessential amino acid. They just try to get as little as is healthy\nwithout producing dangerous levels of phenylalanine and its metabolites\nin the blood.\n\n\nGoodness, I'm not saying that it's good to feed infants a lot of\nglutamate-supplemented foods. It's just that this \"projected safety\nmargin\" is a construct derived from animal models and given that,\nyou can \"prove\" anything you like. We're talking prudent policy in\ninfant nutrition here, yet you're misrepresenting it as received wisdom.\n\n\nYou mean \"asserting\". You're being intellectually dishonest (or just\nplain confused), because you're conflating reports which do not necessarily\nhave anything to do with each other. Olney's reports would argue a potential\nfor problems in human infants, but that's not to say that this says anything\nwhatsoever about the use of MSG in most foods, nor does he provide any\nstudies in humans which indicate any deleterious effects (for obvious\nreasons.) It says nothing about MSG's contribtion to the phenomenon\nof the \"Chinese Restaurant Syndrome\". It says nothing about the frequent\ninability to replicate anecdotal reports of MSG sensitivity in the lab.\n\n\nProbably one of the dumber remarks you've made.\n", "\nHow about contaminants on the corn, e.g. aflatoxin???\n\n\n", "\n\n\nMuch of the Haight-Ashbury crowd probably had pre-existing \ndissatisfactions with their lives -- dissatisfactions ameliorated by\nmumbo-jumbo about 'new realities'. The only change I experienced after \nLSD was to gain the knowledge that I didn't enjoy how LSD twisted my\nperception.\n--\nMark Pundurs", "What can be done, short of circumcision, for an adult male\nwhose foreskin will not retract?\n\n", "Here is a press release from the American Federation of Teachers.\n\n HHS Secretary Shalala to Address AFT's Paraprofessional and\nSchool-Related Personnel Conference\n To: National and Assignment desks, Education Writer\n Contact: Jamie Horwitz of American Federation of Teachers,\n 202-879-4447\n\n News Advisory:\n\n Secretary of Health and Human Services Donna Shalala will speak\nto the 16th annual AFT Paraprofessional and School-Related\nPersonnel Conference at 8 p.m., Friday, April 23, at the\nWashington Hilton. Shalala will discuss HHS's agenda for helping\nchildren over the next four years.\n AFT's Paraprofessional and School-Related Personnel Division\nincludes school workers such as paraprofessionals and teacher\naides, school bus drivers, school secretaries, school custodians\nand maintenance workers and school food service workers. More\nthan a thousand school employees will attend the conference which\nis being held at the Washington Hilton, April 23-25. Most of the\nschool workers attending the conference come from urban school\ndistricts where child health and nutrition, welfare reform and the\navailability of Head Start and other preschool programs are major\nissues.\n Workshops scheduled for the conference include sessions\naddressing issues around reauthorization of Chapter 1; how\nparaprofessionals and school-related personnel, especially\nminority men, can serve as student role models; the increasing\nproblem of school violence; dealing with abused children; and\nassisting children with serious health problems.\n For a complete conference schedule, contact Jamie Horwitz\nat 202-879-4447.\n The American Federation of Teachers represents 805,000\nelementary and secondary teachers, paraprofessionals and\nschool-related personnel, higher education faculty, nurses, state\nand municipal workers.\n -30-", "\nWhy do you think Steere is doing this? Isn't he acting in good faith?\nAfter all, as the \"discoverer\" of Lyme for all intents and purposes,\nthe more famous Lyme gets, the more famous Steere gets. I don't\nsee the ulterior motive here. It is easy for me to see it the\nthose physicians who call everything lyme and treat everything.\nThere is a lot of money involved.\n\n\nWell, it is tragic what has happened to you, but it doesn't\nnecessarily make you the most objective source of information\nabout it. If your whole life is focussed around this, you\nmay be too emotionally involved to be advising other people\nwho may or may not have Lyme. Certainly advocacy of more research\non Lyme would not be out of order, though, and people like you\ncan be very effective there.\n\n\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "\nThe bacteria in your gut are important. But colonic flushes are not the \nway to improve gut function. Each person has almost a unique mix of \nbacteria in his/her gut. Diet affects this mix as does the use of \nantibiotics. A diet change is a much better way to alter the players in \nyour gut than is colonic flushes. Cross contamination has been a real \nproblem in some of the outfits that do this \"treatment\" since the equipment \nis not always cleaned as well as it should be between patient \"treatments\".\nDental drills have me a little concerned about HIV infection and I've \npicked a dentist that uses both chemical and autoclave sterilization of his \ninstruments(more clostly but much safer). Full sterile technique is \nalso used just like that practiced in an OR(mask, gloves and gowns worn and \ndisposed of between patients). Each visit costs me 15 dollars more than \nthe standard and customary fee so I have to pay it out of pocket. His much \nhigher fees do not drive away patients.\n\nI can not think of any good reason why someone should subject themselves to \nthis colonic flush procedure. For very little, if any benefit, you \nsubject yourself to hepatitis, cholera, parasitic disease and even HIV.\nJust ask yourself why someone might resort to this kind of treatment?\nCould they be having GI distress? Could this distress be due to a \npathogenic organism? Could I get this organism if the equipment is not \ncleaned properly between patients? Do I really want to take this risk?\nFood for thought.", "/ hpcc01:rec.motorcycles / cookson@mbunix.mitre.org (Cookson) / 2:02 pm Apr 2, 1993 /\n\nAll right people, this inane bug wibbling is just getting to much. I\npropose we split off a new group.\nrec.motorcycles.nutrition \nto deal with the what to do with squashed bugs thread.\n\n-- \n----------\nWhat?!?!? Haven't you heard about cross-posting??!?!? Leave it intact and\nsimply ignore the basenotes and/or responses which have zero interest for\na being of your stature and discriminating taste. ;-)\n\nYesterday, while on Lonoak Rd, a wasp hit my faceshield with just\nenough force to glue it between my eyes, but not enough to kill it as\nthe legs were frantically wiggling away and I found that rather, shall\nwe say, distracting. I flicked it off and wiped off the residue at the\nnext gas stop in Greenfield. :-) BTW, Lonoak Rd leads from #25 into\nKing City although we took Metz from KC into Greenfield. \n \n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGraeme Harrison, Hewlett-Packard Co., Communications Components Division,\n350 W Trimble Rd, San Jose, CA 95131 (gharriso@hpcc01.corp.hp.com) DoD#649 ", "Hi,\n\nI've just returned from a visit with my OB/GYN and I have a few \nconcerns that maybe y'all can help me with. I've been seeing \nher every 4 weeks for the past few months (I'm at week 28) \nand during the last 2 visits I've gained 9 to 9 1/2 pounds every \n4 weeks. She said this was unacceptable over any 4 week period. \nAs it stands I've thus far gained 26 pounds. Also she says that \nthough I'm at 28 weeks the baby's size is 27 weeks, I think she \nmentioned 27 inches for the top of the fundus. When I was 13 \nweeks the baby's size was 14 weeks. I must also add, that I had \nan operation a few years ago for endometriosis and I've had no \nproblems with endometriosis but apparently it is causing me pain \nin my pelvic region during the pregnancy, and I have a very \ndifficult time moving, and the doc has recommended I not walk or \nmove unless I have to. (I have a little handicapped sticker for \nwhen I do need to go out.) \n\nAnyway that's 1/2 of the situation the other is that almost from \nthe beginning of pregnancy I was getting sick (throwing up) about \n2-3 times a day and mostly it was bile that was being eliminated. \n(I told her about this). I know this because I wasn't eating \nvery much due to the nausea and could see the 'results'. Well \nnow I only get sick about once every 1-2 weeks, and it is still bile \nrelated. But in addition I had begun to feel movement near my \nupper right abdomen, just below the right breast, usually when I \nwas lying on my right side. It began to get worse though because \nit started to hurt when I lay on my right side, and then it hurt \nno matter what position I was in. Next, I noticed that when I \nate greasy or fatty foods I felt like my entire abdomen had \nturned to stone, and the pain in the area got worse. However if \nI ate sauerkraut or vinegar or something to 'cut' the fat it \nwasn't as much of a problem.\n\nSo the doctor says I have cholistatis, and that I should avoid \nfatty foods. This makes sense, and because I was already aware \nof what seemed to me this cause and effect relationship I have \nbeen avoiding these foods on my own. But I'm still able to eat \nfoods with Ricotta cheese for instance and other low fat foods. \n\nBut doc wants me to be on a non-fat diet. This means no meat \nexcept fish and chicken w/o skin (I do this anyway). No nuts, \nfried food, cheese etc. I am allowed skim milk. She said I \nshould avoid anything sweet (e.g. bananas). Also I must only \nhave one serving of something high in carbohydrates a day ( \npotatoes, pasta, rice)! She said I can't even cook vegetables in \na little bit of oil and that I should eat vegetables raw or \nsteamed. I'm concerned because I understand you need to have \nsome fat in your diet to help in the digestive process. And if \nI'm not taking in fat, is she expecting the baby will take it \nfrom my stores? And why this restriction on carbohydrates if \nshe's concerned about fat? I'm not clear how much of her \nrecommendation is based on my weight gain and how much on \ncholistatis, which I can't seem to find any information on. She \noriginally said that I should only gain 20 pounds during the \nentire pregnancy since I was about 20 lbs overweight when I \nstarted. But my sister gained 60 lbs during her pregnancy and \nshe's taken it all off and hasn't had any problems. She also \nasked if any members of my family were obese, which none of them \nare. Anyway I think she is overly concerned about weight gain, \nand feel like I'm being 'punished' by a severe diet. She did \nwant to see me again in one week so I think she the diet may be \ntemporary for that one week. \n\nWhat I want to know is how reasonable is this non-fat diet? I \nwould understand if she had said low-fat diet, since I'm trying \nthat anyway, even if she said really low-fat diet. I think she \nassumes I must be eating a high-fat diet, but really it is that \nbecause of the endometriosis and the operation I'm not able to \nuse the energy from the food I do eat. \n\nAny opinions, info and experiences will be appreciated. I'm \ntruly going stark raving mad trying to meet this new strict diet \nbecause fruits and vegetables go through my system in a few \nminutes and I'll end up having to eat constantly. Thus far I \ndon't find any foods satisfying.\n\nThanks ", "I may not be the world's greatest expert on chiggers (a type of\nmite indigenous to the south), but I certainly have spent a lot\nof time contemplating the little buggers over the past six years\n(since we moved to N.C.). Here are some observations gained from\npainful experience:\n\n 1. Reactions to chiggers vary greatly from person to person.\n Some people get tiny red bites. Others (like me) are more\n sensitive and get fairly large swollen sore-like affairs.\n\n 2. Chigger bites are the gift that keeps on giving. I swear\n that these things will itch for months.\n\n 3. There is a lot of folklore about chiggers. I think most of\n it is fiction. I have tried to do research on the critters,\n since they have such an effect on me. The only book I could\n find on the subject was a *single* book in UNC's special\n collections library. I have not yet gone through what is\n required to get it.\n\n 4. Based on my experience and that of my family members, the old\n folk remedy of fingernail polish simply doesn't work. I recall\n reading that the theory upon which it is based (that the chiggers\n burrow into your skin and continue to party there) is false. I\n think it is more likely that the reaction is to toxins of some\n sort the little pests release. But this is speculation.\n\n 5. The *best* approach is prevention. A couple of things work well.\n A good insect repellent (DEET) such as Deep Woods Off liberally\n applied to ankles, waistband, etc. is a good start. There is\n another preparation called \"Chig Away\" that is a combination of\n sulfur and some kind of cream (cortisone?) that originally was\n prepared for the Army and is not commercially available. In\n the summer I put this on my ankles every morning when I get\n up on weekends since I literally can't go outside where we\n live (in the country) without serious consequences. (They\n apparently don't like sulfur much at all. You can use sulfur\n as a dust on your body or clothing to repel them.)\n\n 6. No amount of prevention will be *completely* successful. Forget\n the fingernail polish. I have finally settled upon a treatment\n that involves topical application of a combination of cortisone\n creme (reduces the inflamation and swelling) and benzocaine\n (relieves the itch). I won't tell you all the things I've tried.\n Nor will I tell you some of the things my wife does since this\n counts as minor surgery and is best not mentioned (I also think\n it gains nothing).\n\n 7. The swelling and itching can also be significantly relieved\n by the application of hot packs, and this seems to speed recovery\n as well.\n\nDoctors seem not to care much about chiggers. The urban and suburban\ndoctors apparently don't encounter them much. And the rural doctors\nseem to regard them as a force of nature that one must endure. I\nsuspect that anyone who could come up with a good treatment for chiggers\nwould make a *lot* of money.", "For a very long time I've had a problem with feeling really awful\nwhen I try to get up in the morning. My sleep latency at night is also\npretty long, ranging from 30 min to an hour. I get about 7 hours of\nbedtime (maybe 6 of actual sleep) a night and more on the weekends. I\nwill spend two or three hours laying in bed after this if I can, because\nI feel so tired when I wake up, even more tired than I was when I\nwent to bed, which is usually too tired to work.\n\n\tAnyway, I recently had a really bad flu, so I called a friend to\nget me some cough syrup with both an expectorant and a nasal decongestant;\nbut he got Vicks formula 44M which has everything but an expectorant. So\nI used that anyway, and the three nights I used it, I fell asleep rapidly\nand felt that I got really good quality sleep -- that is, I actually\nfelt refreshed the next morning.\n\n\tSo, I am now trying to look into, both in the literature and\nexperimentally, the use of antihistamines as sleep aids, since I am\npresuming that it was the antihistamine that caused the effect. The\nantihistamine in Vicks formula 44 is Chloriphenamine maleate, so I bought\nsome generic tablets of that, and tried one last night and didn't\nnotice any improvement. I might try one with a little alcohol (about\n1 beer) to see if it is a synergism effect. Also, library research\nseems to show that Benadryl is the antihistamine with the strongest\nsedative effect of what is availible OTC. So I might also buy a generic\nform of that and try that; the PDR seems to suggest that 50 mg is a good\ndosage level to try.\n\n\tFor other medical information, I have allergies but rarely have\nan allergic reaction living in New Mexico. I also have chronically dry\neyes, which get horrible if I try to use most underarm deoderants. I did\nguess that my problem might be caused by hypoglycemia, so I made some\nchanges in my diet consistent with that, and it didn't help, so I\nwent back to a normal diet (Pretty diverse, also taking vitamin supplements)", ": Am I justified in being pissed off at this doctor?\n: \n: Last Saturday evening my 6 year old son cut his finger badly with a knife.\n: I took him to a local \"Urgent and General Care\" clinic at 5:50 pm. The \n: clinic was open till 6:00 pm. The receptionist went to the back and told the \n: doctor that we were there, and came back and told us the doctor would not \n: see us because she had someplace to go at 6:00 and did not want to be delayed \n: here. During the next few minutes, in response to my questions, with several \n: trips to the back room, the receptionist told me:\n: \t- the doctor was doing paperwork in the back,\n: \t- the doctor would not even look at his finger to advise us on going\n: \t to the emergency room;\n: \t- the doctor would not even speak to me;\n: \t- she would not tell me the doctor's name, or her own name;\n: \t- when asked who is in charge of the clinic, she said \"I don't know.\"\n: \n: I realize that a private clinic is not the same as an emergency room, but\n: I was quite angry at being turned away because the doctor did not want to\n: be bothered. My son did get three stitches at the emergency room. \n\nSpeaking as a physician who works in an urgent care center, the above\nbehavior is completely inappropriate. If a patient who requires extensive\ncare shows up at the last minute, we always see them and give them appropriate\ncare. It is reasonable for a clinic to refuse to see patients outside of its\nposted hours, but what you describe is misbehavior. Ask to speak to the\nclinic director, and complain. Whatever their attitude, they have nothing to\ngain from angering patients.", "\n\n\n \n\nThere can be. But depression is not diagnositic of thyroid deficiency.\nThyroid blood tests are easy, cheap, and effective in diagnosing thyroid\ndeficiencies.", "Dear Netters,\n\nI am not sure whether this is the right place to post my query, but I\nthought there may be some bilingual physicians in this newsgroup that\ncould help. Please, excuse me for overloading the bandwidth.\n\nI am trying to build a resource allocation program for managing a\nsurgical operating unit in a hospital. The user interface is in\nEnglish, however the terms of medical specialties I was given are in\nFrench :-( I have no medical dictionary handy, mine is a technical\nuniversity :-((\n\nI need to get the translation into English (when there is one) of the\nfollowing words. They refer to medical categories of operating rooms\n(theaters). I admit they may not be universally \"used\".\n\n1- sceptique\n2- orl\n3- brulure/brule'\n4- ne'onatal\n5- pre'natal\n6- pre'mature'\n7- neurochirurgie (neuro-surgery??)\n8- chirurgie ge'ne'rale\n9- chirurgie plastique\n10- urologie (urology??)\n\nThank you for you help.\nCheers,\n\n---------\nBerthe Y. Choueiry\n\nchoueiry@lia.di.epfl.ch\nLIA-DI, Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne, Ecublens\nCH-1015 Lausanne, Switzerland\nVoice: +41-21-693.52.77 and +41-21-693.66.78 \tFax: +41-21-693.52.25\n", "\n\nInsomnia is a known, but relatively infrequent, side-effect of\ndiphenhydramine. \n\nFor most people, this does not occur. On the other hand, most people\ncan build up a tolerance to an antihistamine with extended use.\n(Allergy sufferers are often switched from one antihistamine to\nanother to avoid this.)\n\n\n--\nSteven Litvintchouk\nMITRE Corporation\n202 Burlington Road\nBedford, MA 01730-1420", "\nNot one, but two:\n\nObesity in Europe 88,\nproceedings of the 1st European Congress on Obesity\n\nAnnals of NY Acad. Sci. 1987\n\n\n\n", "To Whomever who can help me,\n\n\tI am a doctor from Kota Bharu, Kelantan, Malaysia. I have recently hooked up my \nprivate home computer to EMail via the local telephone company. I am really interested\nin corresponding with other Doctors or medical researchers through Email. I also hope\nto be able to subscribe to a news network on medicine.\n\nCan someone please tell me what I should do? I am completely new to this and have no \nidea about the vast capabilities of Email.", "\nI'm not sure of the exact recipe, but I'm sure acidophilus is one of\nthe major ingredients. :-)", ":In article <1993Apr22.205341.172965@locus.com> Michael Trofimoff,\n:>Would anyone out there in 'net-land' happen to have an\n:>authentic, sure-fire way of making this great sauce that\n:>is used to adorn Gyro's and Souvlaki?\n:\n:I'm not sure of the exact recipe, but I'm sure acidophilus is one of\n:the major ingredients. :-)\n:\n\nThe only recipies I've ever seen for this include plain yogurt, finely\nchopped cucumber and a couple of crushed cloves of garlic -- yummy.\n", "We were talking about Migraine and Exercise (I'm the one who can't\nfathom the thought of exercise during migraine...). Anyway, turning\nthe thread around, the other day I played tennis during my lunch\nhour. I'm out of tennis shape so it was very intense exercise. I\ngot overheated, and dehydrated. Afterwards, I noticed a tingling\nsensation all over my head then about 2 hours later, I could feel\na migraine start. (I continued to drink water in the afternoon.)\nI took cafergot, but it didn't help and the pain started although\nit wasn't as intense as it usually is and about 9pm that night, the\npain subsided.\n\nThis isn't the first time that I've had a migraine occur after exercise.\nI'm wondering if anyone else has had the same experience and I wonder\nwhat triggers the migraine in this situation (heat buildup? dehydration?).\nI'm not giving up tennis so is there anything I can do (besides get into \nshape and don't play at high noon) to prevent this?\n\nThanks,", "[reply to keith@actrix.gen.nz (Keith Stewart)]\n \n \nIt would help if you (and anyone else asking for medical information on\nsome subject) could ask specific questions, as no one is likely to type\nin a textbook chapter covering all aspects of the subject. If you are\nlooking for a comprehensive review, ask your local hospital librarian.\nMost are happy to help with a request of this sort.\n \nBriefly, this is a condition in which patients who have significant\nresidual weakness from childhood polio notice progression of the\nweakness as they get older. One theory is that the remaining motor\nneurons have to work harder and so die sooner.", "\nNo wonder he became confused! With so many drugs, it is almost impossible\nto know which one is causing the problem. And because some drugs \npotentiate the effect of each other, they can make the side effects\nall the worse, and even dangerous. (kinda like mixing alcohol and \nantihistamines!)\n\n\nUnfortunately, doctors prescribe drugs to treat the side effects of\nthe drugs a patient is receiving. If one drug they are taking causes\nthe patient's blood pressure to go up, many times an antihypertensive\nis prescribed instead of re-evaluating the need for the original drug.\nThis is why many older adults are trying to take a dozen or so drugs\nat home!!!!\n", "[reply to dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (Derek Abbott)]\n \n \nI know of a patient who was severely and chronically depressed and tried\nto kill himself with a bullet to the temple. He essentially gave\nhimself a prefrontal lobotomy, curing the depression.", "\nI don't believe any state licenses herbologists or iridologists.", "\nIn fact Adiposity 101 mentions a similar study (search for \"life\nevents\" in any recent version of Adiposity 101).\n\nThe problem with anecdotal reports about individuals who have\nlost weight and kept it off is that we don't know what caused\nthe weight gain in the first place. This is critical because\nsomeone who gains weight because of something temporary (drug\neffect, life event, etc.) may appear successful at dieting when\nthe weight loss was really the result of reversing the temporary\ncondition that caused the weight gain.\n", "While in grad school, I remember a biochemistry friend of mine working with\n\"heat shock proteins\". Apparently, burning protein will induce changes in he\nDNA. Whether these changes survive the denaturing that occurs during digestion\nI don't know, but I never eat burnt food because of this. \n\nAlso, many woods contain toxins. As they are burnt, it would seem logical that\nsome may volatilise, and get into the BBQed food. Again, I don't know if these\ntoxins (antifungal and anti-woodeater compounds) would survive the rather harsh\nconditions of the stomach and intestine, and then would they be able to cross\nthe intestinal mucosa?\n\nMaybe someone with more biochemical background than myself (which is almost\n*anyone*... :)) can shed some light on heat shock proteins and the toxins that\nmay be in the wood used to make charcoal and BBQ.", "Actually I am entering vet school next year, but the question is \nrelevant for med students too.\n\nMemorizing large amounts has never been my strong point academically.\nSince this is a major portion of medical education -- anatomy, \nhistology, pathology, pharmacology, are for the most part mass \nmemorization -- I am a little concerned. As I am sure most \nmed students are.\n\nCan anyone suggest techniques for this type of memorization? I \nhave had reasonable success with nemonics and memory tricks like\nthinking up little stories to associate unrelated things. But I have\nnever applied them to large amounts of \"data\".\n\nHas anyone had luck with any particular books, memory systems, or\ncheap software? \n\nCan you suggest any helpful organizational techniques? Being an\nolder student who returned to school this year, organization (another\none of my weak points) has been a major help to my success.\n\nPlease no griping about how all you have to do is \"learn\" the material\nconceptually. I have no problem with that, it is one of my strong \npoints. But you can't get around the fact that much of medicine is\nrote memorization. ", "A friend has the following symptoms which have occurred periodically\nevery few months for the last 3 years. An episode begins with extreme\ntiredness followed by:\n\n\t1. traveling joint pains and stiffness affecting mostly the elbows,\n\tknees, and hips.\n\t2. generalized muscle pains\n\t3. tinnitus and a feeling of pressure in her ears\n\t4. severe sweating occuring both at night and during the day\n\t5. hemorrhaging in both eyes. Her opthamologist calls it peripheral\n retinal hemorhages and says it looks similar to diabetic retinopathy. (She\n isn't diabetic--they checked.\n\t6. distorted color vision and distorted vision in general (telephone\n\t poles do not appear to be straight)\n\t7. loss of peripheral vision.\n \t\n\tMany tests have been run and all are normal except for something \ncalled unidentified bright objects found on a MRI of her brain. The only\nthing that seems to alleviate one of these episodes is prednisone. At\ntimes she had been on 60 mg per day. Whenever she gets down to 10-15 mg\nthe symptoms become acute again.", "\n\nSorry -- I mean eicosapentaenoic acid.\n\n\nCoincidentaly, just yesterday I was (finally) referred from the clinic\nto Hanauer. I'm seeing him on May 24. I'll report what he says about\nthis question.\n\n\nWill do.", "\nProving once again that Brett has a major thinking problem...\n\nTwo groups that the government insure are the elderly and the \"medically an\nneedy\" (those who have impoverished themselves through spending for medical\ncare). The typical elderly person spends 3.5 times what a person under age\n65. The typical medically needy person spends about 10 times what the\naverage person does.\n\nYou've got to adjust those data, Brett.", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nI read a great book about eye dominance several years ago. So there is one\nbook out there..at least one :).\n\nThere were several types of eye dominance. Where a person looks in their\nmemory usually indicates a type of eye dominanc Another type is related to\ncoordination activities like hitting a ball. Another for reading. \n\nI didn't read one that discussed prescription strength. Although people\nwith bad vision, near or far sighted would tend to depend on the stronger\neye. ", "- Am I justified in being pissed off at this doctor?\n- \n- Last Saturday evening my 6 year old son cut his finger badly with a knife.\n- I took him to a local \"Urgent and General Care\" clinic at 5:50 pm. The \n\n\t[story deleted]\n\n- be bothered. My son did get three stitches at the emergency room. I'm still \n- trying to find out who is in charge of that clinic so I can write them a \n- letter. We will certainly never set foot in that clinic again.\n- \n\nThe people in charge already know what kind of 'care' they are \nproviding, and they don't give a rat's ass about your repeat business.\n\nYou are much more likely to do some good writing to local newspapers,\nand broadcast news shows. If you do, keep the letter short and to the point\nso they don't discard it out of hand, and emphasize exactly what you\nare upset about.\n\nIt's possible that the local health department can help you complain to \nsomeone official, but really, that 'clinic' exists for the sole purpose \nof generating walk-in income through advertising, and *nothing* you can do \nwill change them -- all you can hope for is to help someone else avoid them.\n\nI'm glad it sounds like your son did ok, anyway.", "\nDavid, this study looks like a good one. Gordon Rubenfeld did a Medline \nsearch and also sent me the same reference through e-mail. Since \ncommercial yogurt does not always have a good Lactobacillus a. or \nbulgaricus culture, a negative finding would not have been too informative.\nThis is often the reason why Lactobacillus acidophilus tablets are \nrecommended rather than yogurt.\n\nI guess the next question is why would this introduction of \"good\" bacteria \nback into the gut decrease the incidence of vaginal candida blooms if the \nanus was not serving as a candida reservoir(a fact that Gordon R. vehementy\ndenys)? I see two possible theories. One, the L. acidophilus, which is a \nfacultatively anaerobic bacterium, could make it through the gut and \ncolonize the rectal area to overgrow the candida. This would not explain \nthe reoccurance of candida blooms in the vagina after the yogurt ingestion \nwas stopped though. The other is that the additional bacteria in the \nintestinal tract remove most of the glucose from the feces and candida \nlooses it's major food source.\n\nGetting Lactobacillus acidophilus to colonize the vaginal tract(where it is \nnormally found) would have a much better effect on the recurrance of vaginal \nyeast blooms though. An acetic acid, Lactobacillus acidophilus douche has \nbeen used to get this effect but I've not seen any such treatment reported in \nthe medical literature. This would be an example of physicians conducting \ntheir own clinical trials to try to come up with treatments that help their \npatients. When this is done in private practice, the results are rarely, if \never published. It was the hallmark of medicine until the modern age \nemerged with clinical trials. It really raises a big question. Does the \nmedical profession cast out the adventerous few who try new treatments to \nhelp patients or does it look the other way.\n\nThis particular issue is really a very simple one since no real dangerous \ntherapy is involved(even the anti-fungals are not all that dangerous). But \nthere are some areas(like EDTA chelation therapy), where the fire is pretty \nhot and somebody could get burned. It's really tough. Do I follow only \nwell established protocols and then give up if they don't work that well or \ndo it try something that looks like it will work but hasn't been proven to \nwork yet?\n\nMy stand is to consider other treatment possibilities, especially if they \ninvolve little or no risk to the patient. Getting good bacteria back into \nthe gut after antibiotic treatment is one treatment possibility. The other \nis getting L. acidophilus into the vaginal tract of a woman who is having a \nproblem with recurring yeast infections.", "My brother's affine has recently been diagnosed with Sweet's\nsyndrome. Also called steroid resistant Sweet's syndrome.\n\n\tThis syndrome started after she had had Iodine 131 treatment for\nhyperthyroidism. She'd been reluctant to have treatment for the\nhyperthyroidism for many years and apparently started to show exaustion\nfrom it. \n\n\tI understand that she may still be testing high in thyroid level\nbut she's isn't being treated by an endocrinologist. Her previous\nendocrinologist bowed out when she entered the hospital. She entered the\nhospital because of the Sweet's syndrome symptoms (skin lesions).\n\nI've looked through the last two years of Medline and didn't find an\nabstract mentioning a correlation between thyroid and Sweets. . \n\nI checked a handbook which said that Sweet's was associated with leukemia.\n\nI'd like a reccomndation for experts who are in New York City or who travel\nto New York City. For the sweets and perhaps for the endocrinology.\n\nAny information that might help. Apparently there hasn't been much\nimprovement in her condition over the past several months. ", "\nYou said it worked so well with tobacco. I was being fascisious(I can't spell \nworth a damn)\n\nLook, this is getting ridiculous, first, I think tobacco should be legal. \nAnybody who can't see the difference between tobacco and marijuana has got to \nbe high.", "\nI don't know the first thing about yeast infections but I am a scientist.\nNo scientist would take your statement --- \"no convincing empirical evidence\nto support the existence of systemic yeast syndrome\" --- to tell you\nanything except an absence of data on the question. Noring has pointed out\nthe catch-22 that if the \"crazy\" theory were true, you probably couldn't\nfind any direct evidence of it --- that you couldn't observe those yeastie\nbeasties with present methods even if they were there. Noring and the\nfellow from Oklahoma (sorry, forgot your name) have also suggested one set\nof anecdotal evidence in favor based on their personal experiences ---\nnamely, that when people with certain conditions are given anti-fungals,\nmany of them appear to get better. \n\nSo, if you have any evidence *against* the hypothesis --- for example,\ncontrolled double-blind studies showing that the anti-fungals don't do any\nbetter than sugar water --- then let's hear it. If you don't, then what we\nhave is anecdotal and uncontrolled evidence on one side, and abject\ndisbelief on the other. In which case, please, there is no point in yelling\nback and forth at each other any longer since neither side has any\nconvincing evidence either positive or negative. \n\nAnd I understand that your abject disbelief is based on the existence of\npeople who may get famous or make money applying the diagnosis to everything\nin sight, making wild claims with no evidence, and always refusing to do\ncontrolled studies. But that has absolutely no bearing on the apparently\nsincere experiences of the people on the net observing anti-fungals working\non themselves and other people in certain specific cases. There are also\nquacks who sell oral superoxide dismutase, in spite of the fact that it's\ncompletely broken down in the guts, but this doesn't change the genuine\nscientific knowledge about the role of superoxide dismutase in fighting\noxidative damage. Same thing. Just cause there are candida quacks, that\ndoesn't establish evidence against the candida hypothesis. If there's some\nother reason (besides the quacks), if only anecdotal, to think it could be\ntrue, then that is what has to be considered, that is what the net people\nhave been talking about.\n\nBut again, there is no point in arguing about it. There is anecdotal\nevidence, and there is no convincing evidence, and there are also some\ncandida quacks out there, I hope everyone can agree on all of that. Thus,\nit appears to me the main question now is whether the proponents can\nmarshall enough anecdotal evidence in a convincing and documented enough\nmanner to make a good case for carrying out a good controlled double-blind\nstudy of antifungals (or else, forget convincing anybody else to carry out\nthe test, just carry it out themselves!) --- and also, whether they can\nadequately define the patient population or symptoms on which such a study\nshould be carried out to provide a fair test of the hypothesis.\n\nKen", "Colonics were a health fad of the 19th century, which persists to this day.\nExcept for certain medical conditions, there is no reason to do this.\nCertainly no normal person should do this.", "can anyone give me more information regarding endometriosis? i heard\nit's a very common disease among women and if anyone can provide names\nof a specialist/surgeon in the north carolina research triangle park\narea (raleigh/durham/chapel hill) who is familiar with the condition,\ni would really appreciate it.\n\nthanks. \n\n--Naomi", "\nNo, there is something called the \"Delany Amendment\" which makes carcinogenic\nfood additives illegal in any amount. This was passed by Congress in the\n1950's, before stuff like mass spectrometry became available, which increased\ndetectable levels of substances by a couple orders of magnitude.\n\nThis is why things like cyclamates and Red #2 were banned. They are very\nweakly carcinogenic in huge quantities in rats, so under the Act they are\nbanned.\n\nThis also applies to natural carcinogens. Some of you might remember a\ntime back in the 1960's when root beer suddenly stopped tasting so good,\nand never tasted so good again. That was the time when safrole was banned.\nThis is the active flavoring ingredient in sassafras leaves.\n\nIf it were possible to market a root beer good like the old days, someone\nwould do it, in order to make money. The fact that no one does it indicates\nthat enforcement is still in effect.", "The best group to keep you informed is the Crohn's and Colitis Foundation\nof America. I do not know if the UK has a similar organization. The\naddress of\nthe CCFA is \n\nCCFA\n444 Park Avenue South\n11th Floor\nNew York, NY 10016-7374\nUSA\n\nThey have a lot of information available and have a number of newsletters.\n \nGood Luck.", "[From Kalat, J.W.. (1992): _Biological Psychology_. Wadsworth Publishing Co.\nBelmont, CA. Pg. 219. Reproduced without permission.]\n\n\n\nDigression 6.1: Miracle Berries and the Modification of Taste Receptors\n\nAlthough the _miracle berry_, a plant native to West Africa is practically\ntasteless, it temporarily changes the taste of other substances. Miracle\nberries contain a protein, _miraculin_, that modifies sweet receptors in\nsuch a way that they can be stimulated by acids (Bartoshuk, Gentile, \nMoskowitz, & Meiselman, 1974). If you ever get a chance to chew a miracle\nberry (and I do recommend it), for about the next half an hour all acids \n(which are normally sour) will taste sweet. They will continue to taste\nsour as well.\n\nMiraculin was, for a time, commercially available in the United States as a\ndiet aid. The idea was that dieters could coat their tongue with a miraculin\npill and then eat and drink unsweetened, slightly acidic substances. Such\nsubstances would taste sweet without providing many calories.\n\nA colleague and I once spent an evening experimenting with miracle berries.\nWe drank straight lemon juice, sauerkraut juice, even vinegar. All tasted\nextremely sweet. Somehow we forgot how acidic these substances are. We \nawoke the next day to find our mouths full of ulcers.\n\n[... continued discussion of a couple other taste-altering substances ...]\n\n\nRefs: \n\nBartoshuk, L.M., Gentile, R.L., Moskowitz, H.R., & Meiselman, H.L. (1974):\n Sweet taste induced by miracle fruit (_Synsephalum dulcificum_). \n _Physiology & Behavior_. 12(6):449-456.\n\n\n-------------\n\n\nAnyone ever hear of these things or know where to get them?\n", "\n----------\n\nYeah, it might, if you only read the part you quoted. You somehow left \nout the part about \"we all ate the same thing.\" Changes things a bit, eh?\n\nYou complain that people blame MSG automatically, since it's an unknown and\ntherefore must be the cause. It is equally (if not more) unreasonable to\ndefend it, automatically assuming that it CAN'T be the culprit.\n\nPepper makes me sneeze. If it doesn't affect you the same way, fine.\nJust don't tell me I'm wrong for saying so.", "\nI agree that some specialties have gotten way out of line. The main\nproblem is the payment method for procedures rather than time distorts\nthe system. I hope they will fix that. But I'm afraid, as usual,\nthe local doc is going to take the brunt. People grouse about paying\n$50 to see their home doctor in his office, but don't mind paying\n$20,000 to have brain surgery. They think their local doc is cheating\nthem but worship the feet of the neurosurgeon who saved their life.\nWhat they don't realize is that we need more local docs and fewer\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "\n\n\n\n\n:) No...I was one of the lucky ones. Very little acne as a teenager. I\ndidn't have any luck with clearasil. Even though my skin gets oily it\nreally only gets miserable pimples when it's dry. \n\nFrequent lukewarm water rinses on the face might help. Getting the scalp\nthing under control might help (that could be as simple as submerging under\nthe bathwater till it's softened and washing it out). Taking a one a day\nvitamin/mineral might help. I've heard iodine causes trouble and that it \nis used in fast food restaurants to sterilize equipment which might be\nwhere the belief that greasy foods cause acne came from. I notice grease \non my face, not immediately removed will cause acne (even from eating\nmeat).\n\nKeeping hair rinse, mousse, dip, and spray off the face will help. Warm\nwater bath soaks or cloths on the face to soften the oil in the pores will\nhelp prevent blackheads. Body oil is hydrophilic, loves water and it\nsoftens and washes off when it has a chance. That's why hair goes limp with\noilyness. \n\nBecoming convinced that the best thing to do with\na whitehead is leave it alone will save him days of pimple misery. Any\nprying of black or whiteheads can cause infections, the red spots of\npimples. Usually a whitehead will break naturally in a day and there won't\nbe an infection afterwards.\n\nTell him that it's normal to have some pimples but the cosmetic industry\nmakes it's money off of selling people on the idea that they are an\nincredible defect to be hidden at any cost (even that of causing more pimples). \n", "\n\nWhat does \"DC\" stand for? Couldn't be an antichiropractic posting\nfrom a chiropractor, could it? My curiosity is piqued.\n\nProstate CA is an especially troublesome entity for chiropractors.\nIt so typically causes bone pain due to spinal metastases that it\ngets manipulated frequently. Manipulating a cancer riddled bone\nis highly dangerous, since it can then fracture. I've seen at\nleast three cases where this happened with resulting neurologic\ndamage, including paraplegia. This is one instance where knowing\nhow to read x-rays can really help a chiropractor stay out of trouble.\nDO chiropractors know what bony mets from prostate look like?\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "\nI've had PRK.\n\nI would suggest asking a doctor about contacts. Mine said yes to\ncontacts. I think the scars from RK would preclude contacts.\n\n\nNo. RK makes radial cuts around the circumference of the cornea, up to\n8 I think, and these change the curvature of the cornea through stress\nchages. PRK vaporizes (burns) away a thin layer from the front of the\ncornea making the optical axis of the eye shorter. The laser doesn't\ncut in PRK, it vaporizes. In RK, the eye is cut into.\n\n\nI find my vision is more clear for some things, and less clear for\nothers, only at night. I notice a definite haloing at night in the\ndarkness when I look at automobile headlamps, though this is not\nsomething I spend inordinate amounts of time doing. For ordinary\nthings, my vision, in particular having a fully-operating peripheral\nvision, is clearer than with glasses, or contacts.\n", "\nCan you provide a reference to substantiate that gaining back\nthe lost weight does not constitute \"weight rebound\" until it\nexceeds the starting weight? Or is this oral tradition that\nis shared only among you obesity researchers?\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "A(> From: adwright@iastate.edu ()\nA(> A woman I know is tapering off klonopin. I believe that is one of the\nA(> benzodiazopines. She is taking a very minimal dose right now, half a tablet\nA(> a day. She is also pregnant. My question is Are there any known cases where\nA(> klonopin or similar drug has caused harmful effects to the fetus?\nA(> How about cases where the mother took klonopin or similar substance and had\nA(> normal baby. Any information is appreciated. She wants to get a feel for\nA(> what sort of risk she is taking. She is in her first month of pregnancy.\n\nKlonopin, according to the PDR (Physician's Desk Reference), is not a\nproven teratogen. There are isolated case reports of malformations,\nbut it is impossible to establish cause-effect relationships. The\noverwhelming majority of women that take Klonopin while pregnant have\nnormal babies.", "\nFood products can get through breast milk and cause allergies in the\nyoung. Since the son is allergic it would be best not to go to\nbottle feedings, but rather eliminate foods from mother's diet. Your\npediatrician should be able to give you a list of foods to avoid.", "\nWhy don't you just look it up in the Merk? Or check out the medical dictionary\ncite which a doctor mentioned earlier in this thread?\n\n\n\nAmong others, see Olney's \"Excitotoxic Food Aditives - Relevance of\nAnimal Studies to Human Safety\" (1982) Neurobehav. Toxicol. Teratol.\nvol 6: 455-462.\n\nI'm sure PETA would love to hear your arguments.\n\n\nWhose talking about \"food science\"? What is this comment supposed to\nmean? *Neurotoxicology and Tratology*, *Brain Research*, *Nature*,\n*Progress in Brain Research*: all fine food science journals. ;-)\n\n\nThen you would know that Olney himself has casually referred to\n\"Chinese Restaurant Syndrome\" in a few articles. Why don't *you* point\nus to some studies? Maybe then this exchange could be productive.\n\n\nThey're unable to metabolise it.\n\n\nWho said anything about 'received wisdom'? There is no question that\norally administered doses of MSG are capable of destroying nearly all\nneurons in the arcuate nucleus of the hypothalamus and the median\neminence. These areas are responsible for the production of\nhormones critical to normal neuroendocrine function and the normal\ndevelopment of the vertabrate organism. Humans are vertebrates. Now\nwhat, pray tell, do you think will happen when the area of the brain\nnecessary for the normal rhythm of gonadotropin release is missing?\nAre you trying to say that humans have no need of their pituitary,\nANH, and ME, of that part of the brain that is responsible for\ncontrolling the realease (albeit indirectly) of estradiol and testosterone? \n\nHow do you expect anyone to do the studies on this? It's unethical to\n\"sacrifice\" humans to check out what effects chronic, acute, etc doses\nof these compounds are having on the brain tissue in humans. The food\nindustry knows this. That's why the animal model is used in medicine\nand psych. If you're talking about straight sensitivity, it would be\nuseful to define the term. There are plenty of studies on\npsychoneuroimmunology showing the link between attitude and\nphysiology.\n\nI suspect we may be arguing about separate things; *only* adult sensitivities\n(You), and late-occuring sequelae of childhood ingestion and its\nimplication for adults (me). Certainly\nthe doses for excitotoxicity in adults are considerably larger than\nfor the young, but the additivity of Glu and Asp, and their copious\nand increased presence in modern processed foods (jointly), and their\nhidden presence in HVP, necessitates extreme caution. Why would anyone\nwant to eat compounds which have been shown to markedly perturb the\nendocrine system in adults? The main point is *blood levels*\nattained, and oral doses would likely have to be greater than SC. \n\n\nOlney's work provides a putative causal mechanism for some\nsensitivities. Terry, Epelbaum and Martin have shown that orally\nadministered MSG causes changes in normal gonadotropic hormone\nfluctutations in adults. Glu also was found to induce immediate and persistant\nsupression of rhythmic GH secretion, and to induce rapid and transient\nrelease of prolactin in adults chronically exposed to MSG. GH is\nresponsible not only for control of growth during development, but\nalso converts glycogen into glucose. Could this be the cause of\nheadaches? I don't know.\n", "\n Newsgroups: sci.med\n Path: news.larc.nasa.gov!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!think.com!hsdndev!spdcc!dyer\n From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)\n Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA\n References: <20996.3049.uupcb@factory.com> <79727@cup.portal.com>\n Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1993 18:43:05 GMT\n Lines: 18\n\n >I remember hearing a few years back about a new therapy for hyperactivity\n >which involved aggressively eliminating artificial coloring and flavoring\n >from the diet. The theory -- which was backed up by interesting anecdotal\n >results -- is that certain people are just way more sensitive to these\n >chemicals than other people. I don't remember any connection being made\n >with seizures, but it certainly couldn't hurt to try an all-natural diet.\n\n Yeah, the \"Feingold Diet\" is a load of crap. Children diagnosed with ADD\n who are placed on this diet show no improvement in their intellectual and\n social skills, which in fact continue to decline. Of course, the parents\n who are enthusiastic about this approach lap it up at the expense of their\n children's development. So much for the value of \"interesting anecdotal\n results\". People will believe anything if they want to.\n\n -- \n Steve Dyer\n dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer\n\n\nThanks for all the interest in this problem of mine. I don't think it\nis a reaction to sugar or junk food per se since Kathryn has never shown\nany signs of hyperactivity or changes in behavior in response to food.\nShe has always been very calm and dare I say, a neat, smart kid.\n\nThe fact that this happened while eating two sugar coated cereals made\nby Kellog's makes me think she might be having an allergic reaction to\nsomething in the coating or the cereals. Of the four of us in our\nimmediate family, Kathryn shows the least signs of the hay fever, running\nnose, itchy eyes, etc. but we have a lot of allergies in our family history\nincluding some weird food allergies - nuts, mushrooms. \n\nAnyway, our next trip is to an endocrinologist to check out the body\nchemistry. But so far, no more sugar coated cereals and no more seizures\neither. Every day that goes by without one makes me heave a sigh of\nrelief. Thanks again.\n", "\n\nSo just what was it you wanted to say?\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "I am posting to this group in hopes of finding someone out there in\nnetwork newsland who has heard of something similar to what I am going\nto describe here. I have a fourteen year old daugter who experienced\na seizure on November 3, 1992 at 6:45AM after eating Kellog's Frosted\nFlakes. She is perfectly healthy, had never experienced anything like\nthis before, and there is no history of seizures in either side of the\nfamily. All the tests (EEG, MRI, EKG) came out negative so the decision\nwas made to do nothing and just wait to see if it happened again.\n\nWell, we were going along fine and the other morning, April 5, she had\na bowl of another Kellog's frosted kind of cereal, Fruit Loops (I am\nembarrassed to admit that I even bought that junk but every once\nin a while...) So I pour it in her bowl and think \"Oh, oh, this is the\nsame kind of junk she was eating when she had that seizure.\" Ten \nminutes later she had a full blown seizures. This was her first exposure\nto a sugar coated cereal since the last seizure.\n\nWhen I mentioned what she ate the first time as a possible reason for\nthe seizure the neurologist basically negated that as an idea. Now\nafter this second episode, so similar in nature to the first, even\nhe is scratching his head. Once again her EEG looks normal which I\nunderstand can happen even when a person has a seizure.\n\nOnce again we are waiting. I have been thinking that it would be good\nto get to as large a group as possible to see if anyone has any\nexperience with this kind of thing. I know that members of the medical\ncommunity are sometimes loathe to admit the importance that diet and\nfoods play in our general health and well-being. Anyway, as you can\nguess, I am worried sick about this, and would appreciate any ideas\nanyone out there has. Sorry to be so wordy but I wanted to really get\nacross what is going on here.\n\nThanks.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n", "\nI don't think they provide homeopaths, heck the heir apparent was trying to \npromote Osteopaths to the ranks of eligibility a couple of years back... It \npleased my family no end, since I'm at an Osteopathic school, sort of \nvalidated it for them...then I told them that the name was the same but the \npractice was different....oh.\n\tIf you're seeking validation for your philosophy on the strength of \nthe national health service adopting it, I suggest that you are not very \nsure of the validity of your philosophy. I believe in 1946, the NHS was \nstill having its nurses taught the fine art of \"cupping\", which is the \nvacuum extraction of intradermal fluids by means of heating a cup, placing \nit on the afflicted site and allowing it to cool.\n\tI wouldn't take my sick daughter to a homeopath.\n", "\n\nBeing a chronic HBsAg carrier does not necessarily mean the patient has chronic\npersistent anything. Persons who are chronic carriers may have no clinical,\nbiochemical, or histologic evidence of liver disease, or they may have chronic\npersistent hepatitis, chronic active hepatitis, cirrhosis, or hepatocellular\ncarcinoma.\n\nMost cases of chronic persistent hepatitis (CPH) are probably the result of\na viral infection, although in a good number of cases the cause cannot be\ndetermined. The diagnosis of CPH is made on the basis of liver biopsy. It\nconsists of findings of portal inflammation, an intact periportal limiting\nplate, and on occasion isolated foci of intralobular necrosis. But in contrast\nto chronic active hepatitis (CAH) there is no periportal inflammation, \nbridging necrosis, or fibrosis. \n\nCPH has, indeed, an excellent prognosis. If I had to choose between CAH and\nCPH there is no question I would also choose CPH. However, as David pointed\nout, the distinction between the two is not as neat as some of us would have\nit. The histology can sometimes be pretty equivocal, with biopsies showing\nareas compatible with both CPH and CAH. Maybe it is a sampling problem. Maybe\nit is a continuum. I don't know.\n\n=================================", "\n\n\n\n\nThere's been extensive discussion on the CompuServe Cancer Forum about Dr. \nBurzynski's treatment as a result of the decision of a forum member's father \nto undertake his treatment for brain glioblastoma. This disease is \nuniversally and usually rapidly fatal. After diagnosis in June 1992, the \ntumor was growing rapidly despite radiation and chemotherapy. The forum \nmember checked extensively on Dr. Burzynki's track record for this disease. \nHe spoke to a few patients in complete remission for a few years from \nglioblastoma following this treatment and to an NCI oncologist who had \naudited other such case histories and found them valid and impressive. \nAfter the forum member's father began Dr. Burzynski's treatment in \nSeptember, all subsequent scans performed under the auspices of his \noncologist in Chicago have shown no tumor growth with possible signs of \nshrinkage or necrosis.\n\nThe patient's oncologist, although telling him he would probably not live \npast December 1992, was vehemently opposed to his trying Dr. Burzynski's \ntreatment. Since the tumor stopped its rapid growth under Dr. Burzynski's \ntreatment, she's since changed her attitude toward continuing these \ntreatments, saying \"if it ain't broke, don't fix it.\"\n\nDr. Burzynski is an M.D., Ph.D. with a research background who found a \nprotein that is at very low serum levels in cancer patients, synthesized it, \nand administers it to patients with certain cancer types. There is little \nunderstanding of the actual mechanism of activity.", "To: smithmc@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Lost Boy)\n\n LB> I know from personal experience that men CAN get yeast infections. I \n LB> get rather nasty ones from time to time, mostly in the area of the\n LB> scrotum and the base of the penis. \n\nI used to have problems with recurrent athlete's foot until I \nstarted drying between my toes with my blow drier after each time \nI bathe. I also dry my pubic area while I am at it to prevent \nproblems. You might want to try it.", "Thanks to all those who responded to my original post on this question. The\nfinal diagnosis was Stress. I did not take her for a chiropractic adjustment.\n(Rachel receives all her medical care at Keller Army Hospital since she is a\nmilitary dependant, and the Army does not yet provide chiropractic adjustments\nas part of its regular health care.) I am hoping that the arrival of (1)\nSpring Break, and (2) College Acceptance Letters, will help. *UNFORTUNATELY*\nshe was wait-listed at the college she most dearly wanted to attend, so it\nseems as though that stressor may just continue for a while. :-(\n\nMeanwhile she is going on a camping trip with her religious youth group for\nspring break, which seems like a good stress-reliever to me.\n\nThanks again for everybody's help/advice/suggestions/ideas.\n", "Does the Bates method work? I first heard about it in this newsgroup \nseveral years ago, and I have just got hold of a book, \"How to improve your\nsight - simple daily drills in relaxation\", by Margaret D. Corbett, \n('Authorized instructor of the Bates method), published in 1953. It \ntalks about vision improvement by relaxation and exercise. Has there been\nany study on whether this method actually works? If it works, is it by \nactually shortening the previously elongated eyeball, or by increasing \nthe lens's ability to flatten itself in order to compensate for the \ntoo-long eyeball?\n\nSince myopia is the result of eyeball elongation, seems to me the most\nlogical approach for correction is to find a way to reverse the process,\ni.e., shorten it somehow (preferably non-surgically). Has there been\nany recent studies on this? Where can I find them? I know RK works by \nchanging the curvature of the cornea to compensate for the shape of \neyeball, but if there is a way to train the muscles to shorten the \neyeball back to its correct length that would be even better (Bates's \nidea, right?)", "[reply to dufault@lftfld.enet.dec.com (MD)]\n \n \nInfantile spasms have been well understood for quite some time now. You\nare seeing a pediatric neurologist, aren't you? If not, I strongly\nrecommend it. There is a new anticonvulsant about to be released called\nfelbamate which may be particularly helpful for infantile spasms. As\nfor learning more about seizures, ask your doctor or his nurse about a\nlocal support group.", "\n Well, yes. That was a part of my point. Aspirin has its problems, but\nin some situations it is useful. Ditto stuff like licorice root. Taking\nanything as a drug for theraputic purposes implicitly carries the idea\nof taking a dose where the benefits are not exceeded by any unwanted,\nadditional effects. Taking any drug when the potential ill-effects are\nnot known is a risk assumed by the parties involved, and it may be that\nin a given situation the risk is worthwhile.\n Like Prozac, for instance; Prozac has been shown to be theraputic in\nsome cases where the tri-cyclics fail. But Prozac hasn't been in use\nthat long, and it really isn't clear what if any effects it may have\nwhen taken over long periods of time, even though it has been tested\nby present day standards. Should Prozac be taken off the market because\nlong-term effects, if any, are not known? IMHO, i'd say no.\n\neuclid\n", "I've seen people in their forties and fifties become disoriented and\ndemented during hospital stays. In the examples I've seen, drugs were\ndefinitely involved. \n\nMy own father turned into a vegetable for a short time while in the\nhospital. He was fifty-three at the time, and he was on 21 separate\nmedications. The family protested, but the doctors were adamant, telling\nus that none of the drugs interact. They even took the attitude that, if\nhe was disoriented, they should put him on something else as well! With\nthe help of an MD friend of the family, we had all his medication\ndiscontinued. He had a seizure that night, and was put back on one drug.\nTwo days later, he was his old self again. I guess there aren't many\nmedical texts that address the subject of 21-way interactions.\n\nI don't mean this as a cheap shot at the medical profession. It is an\naspect of hospitals that is very frightening to me. Docs seem to believe\nthat, because they have close control of you, it's quite all right to\ntake your bodily equilibria into their own hands. That control reduces\nthe chance that the patient will make a mistake, but health care\nproviders can make mistakes too, and mistakes can be deadly under those\ncircumstances. \n\nI grant you that sometimes there's no choice. Nevertheless, I suggest\nyou procure a list of the drugs your grandmother is getting, and discuss\nit with an independent doc. Her problems may not be the effect of HALDOL\nat all. HALDOL may have been used validly, or it may have been\nprescribed because OTHER medication confused her, and because the\nhospital normally prescribes HALDOL for the confused elderly.\n\nJust my opinion,", "\n\nIf you do a MEDLINE search on \"turmeric\" you'll see that it is a potent\nlipoxygenase inhibitor which is being investigated in a number of areas.\nI'm in cardiology and about 4 years ago the cardiothoracic surgery lab at my\nhospital compared the effect of a teaspoon of dissolved turmeric vs. a $2000\nbolus of tPA in preventing myocardial reperfusion injury in a perfused\nLangendorff sheep heart. The turmeric was more effective :-)\n\n\nA colleague of mine in the School of Pharmacy (Dr. Ron Kohen) has a paper \"in\npress\" on the free radical scavenging activity and antioxidant activity of tea.\n\nJosh\nbackon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL\n", "Hi:\n\nI went to the orthopedist on Tuesday. He diagnosed me as having\n\"intersection syndrome\". He prescribed Feldene for me. I want\nto know more about the disease and the drug.\n\nThanks\n", "\nAspartame is the methyl ester of a dipeptide, so a product of its\nhydrolysis is going to be methanol, which can then be oxidized to\nformaldehyde. The amounts of methanol formed from the ingestion of\naspartame-containing foods are completely in the metabolic noise,\nsince you're forming equally minute amounts of methanol from other\ncomponents of food all the time. In studies involving administration\nof high doses of the additive, blood methanol levels were undetectable.\nMethanol is a poison only in quantities seen in human poisonings,\nsay 5ml and above. This is a consequence of its oxidation to formaldehyde\nand formic acid, two quite reactive compounds which at high enough levels\ncan damage tissues like the retina and kidney, because at such high doses\nthe body's detoxification system is overwhelmed. Interestingly, one\ntreatment for early methanol poisoning is to get the person drunk on\nethyl alcohol--vodka or an equivalent. That's because ethanol is\nmetabolized preferentially over methanol by the enzymes in the liver.\nIf the methanol stays as methanol and isn't metabolized to formaldehyde,\nit is actually relatively non-toxic.\n", "\nBut the sperm would be very diluted in a \"x\" gallon swimming pool ", "Can someone tell me whether or not any of the following medications \nhas been linked to rapid/excessive weight gain and/or a distorted \nsense of taste or smell: Hismanal; Azmacort (a topical steroid to \nprevent asthma); Vancenase.", "\nA placebo is an accepted treatment at times. \n\n\nWhy should it? Placebos are effective under certain circumstances. That's\nwhy they're used. \n\nActually, I don't know know anyone who has actually gotten a \"sugar pill\".\nI don't know how it could be done, since prescription drugs are always\nlabeled, and it's easy enough to find out what's in a pill if you have the\nname.\n\nIt's more common to prescribe a drug which is effective for something, just\nnot for what you have. Antibiotics for viral infections are the most\ncommon such placebo. \n\n\nI'm not sure what you mean by this. What do you think you're paying for?\nYou're not entitled to a prescription drug just because you pay for a\ndoctor's appointment. \n\n-- \n", "\nMy wife breast-fed my three boys 12 months, 16 months, and 29 months\nrespectively and they are 18, 16, and 10 years old respectively. So\nfar everybody seems fairly normal. I noticed a negative correlation\nwith ear infections and length of time nursed in my very small sample.\nI do notice that the 16 and 18 year old seem to eat a lot, could that\nbe from the breast feeding :-) ?\n\nI don't understand the \"unfit mother\" charge other than any tactic is\nnot too low down for some folks during divorce/child custody battles.\n\nMost of the developing nations practice breast feeding to 3 and 4 years\nold. Are they screwed up because of it ? Would they be much better\noff if they could use cow's milk or commercial formula ? Doctors ?", "It is NOT a homeopathic remedy. Improvement began in a few months.\nI am allergic to bermuda grass and if anyone nearby was mowing a lawn\nmy nose would start to run. Now I can walk right by and it doesn't bother\nme at all. The same success with desert ragweed.", "I was wondering if anyone had any information about Molluscous contagiosem.\nI acquired it, and fortunately got rid of it, but the question still lingers\nin my mind: Where did it come from? The little bit of info that I have \nreceived about it in the past states that it can be transmitted sexually, but\nalso occurs in small children on the hands, feet and genitalia.\n\nAny information will be greatly appreciated.\n\n\n\n\"I grow old, I grow old;\nI shall wear my trousers rolled.\"", "I would like to know if their is any medical consensus\n(or consensus within this group) regarding the ethics\nof the following:\n\n 1: Prescription of placebo medications when the patient\n did not specifically request any sort of treatment.\n\n 2: Selling a placebo medication for a profit.\n\n 3: Prescribing homeopathic remedies without advising\n a patient of their \"controversial nature\".\n\n 4: Representing homeopathic remedies as \"over the counter\"\n medications.", "\n: Well, now, Doc, I sure would not want to bet my life on those little\n: critters not being able to get thru one layer of sweat-soaked cotton\n: on their way to do their programmed task. Infrequent, yes, unlikely,\n: yes, but impossible? I learned a long time ago never to say never in\n: medicine Len Howard MD, FACOG\n\nYes, I suppose a single layer of wet cotton would be feasible. After all,\nwe certainly do not make condoms out of cotton!] ", "\n\nCheck out #27903, just some 20 posts before your own. Maybe you missed\nit amidst the flurry of responses? Yet again, the use of this\nnewsgroup is hampered by people not restricting their posts to matters\nthey have substantial knowledge of.\n\nFor cites on MSG, look up almost anything by John W. Olney, a\ntoxicologist who has studied the effects of MSG on the brain and on\ndevelopment. It is undisputed in the literature that MSG is an\nexcitotoxic food additive, and that its major constituent, glutamate\nis essentially the premierie neurotransmitter in the mammalian brain\n(humans included). Too much in the diet, and the system gets thrown\noff. Glutamate and aspartate, also an excitotoxin are necessary in\nsmall amounts, and are freely available in many foods, but the amounts\nadded by industry are far above the amounts that would normally be\nencountered in a ny single food. By eating lots of junk food,\npackaged soups, and diet soft drinks, it is possible to jack your\nblood levels so high, that anyone with a sensitivity to these\ncompounds will suffer numerous *real* physi9logical effects. \nRead Olney's review paper in Prog. Brain Res, 1988, and check *his*\nsources. They are impecable. There is no dispute.", ":>Sounds to me like someone was pulling your leg. There is only one way for\n:>pregnancy to occur: intercourse. These days however there is also\n:>artificial insemination and implantation techniques, but we're speaking of\n:>\"natural\" acts here. It is possible for pregnancy to occur if semen is\n:>deposited just outside of the vagina (i.e. coitus interruptus), but that's\n:>about at far as you can get. Through clothes -- no way. Better go talk\n:>to your biology teacher.\n:\n: what is the likely hood of conception if sperm is deposited just outside\n:the vagina? ie. __% chance.\n: -------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nHmmm.... I really don't know. Probably quite low overall. Why don't we\nget a couple hundred willing couples together and find out ;->\n", "I noticed several years ago that when I took analgesics fairly regularly,\n(motrin at the time), I seemed to get a lot of migraines. But had\nforgotten about that until I started reading some of the posts here.\nI generally don't take NSAIDS or Tylenol for headaches, because I've\nfound them to be ineffective. However, I have two other pain sources\nthat force me to take NSAIDS (currently Naprosyn). First, is some\npelvic pain that I get at the beginning of my period, and then much\nworse at midcycle. I have had surgery for endometriosis in the past\n(~12 years ago), so the Drs. tell me that my pain is probably due\nto the endometriosis coming back. I've tried Synarel, it reduced\nthe pain while I took it (3 mos), but the pain returned immediately\nafter I stopped. Three doctors have suggested hysterectomy as the\nonly \"real solution\" to my problem. Although I don't expect to have\nany more children, I don't like the idea of having my uterus and\none remaining ovary removed (the first ovary was removed when I had\nthe surgery for endometriosis). One of the Drs that suggested\nI get a hysterectomy is an expert in laser surgery, but perhaps thinks\nthat type of procedure is only worthwhile on women who still plan\nto have children. So basically all I'm left with is toughing out\nthe pain. This would be impossible without Naprosyn (or something\nsimilar - but not aspirin, that doesn't work, and Motrin gave me\nhorrible gastritis a few years ago, so I'm through with it). In\nfact, Naprosyn works very well at eliminating the pain if I take\nit regularly as I did when I had severe back pain (and pain in both \nlegs) as I'll discuss in a moment. Generally though, I wait until\nI have the pain before I take the Naprosyn, but then it takes\nseveral hours for it reduce the pain (it's actually quite effective\nat reducing the pain, it just takes quite a while). In the meantime\nI'm frequently in severe pain.\n\nThe other pain source I have is chronic lower back pain resulting in\nbilateral radiculopathy. I've had MRIs, Xrays, CT scan, and EMGs\n(I've had 2 of them, and don't intend to ever do that again) with\nnerve conduction tests. The tests have not been conclusive as to\nwhat is causing my back and leg pain. The MRI reports both say I have\nseveral bulging, degeneratig disks, and from the Xrays (and MRI, I think)\nit is apparent that I have arthritis. The reading on the CT scan\nwas that there are two herniations (L3-L4, and L4-L5), but others\nhav looked at the films and concluded that there are no herniations.\nThe second EMG and nerve conduction studies shows significant denervation\ncompared to the first EMG. Oh yeah, I had some other horrible test,\ncalled something like Somatic Evoked Response which showed that the\n\"internal nerves\" are working fine. Anyway, the bottom line is that\nI sometimes have severe pain in both legs and back pain. The back pain\nis there all the time, but I can live with it. When the leg pain is there,\nI need some analgesic/anti-inflammatory medication to reduce the pain\nto a level where I can work. So I took Naprosyn regulary for 6-9\nmonths (every time I tried to stop the leg pain got worse, so I'd \nalways resume). Since last November I have taken it much less frequently,\nand primarily for the pelvic pain. I have been going to physical\ntherapy for the last 8 months (2-3 times a week). After the first month\nor so, my therapist put me on pelvic traction (she had tried it earlier,\nbut it had caused a lot of pain in my back, this time she tried it at\na lower weight). After a month or two, the pain in my legs began going\naway (but the traction aways caused discomfort in my lower back, which\ncould be reduced with ultrasound and massage). So now, I don't have\nnearly as much pain in my legs, in fact my therapist took me off\ntraction about 2 weeks ago.\n\nGetting back to my original reason for this post... Even if I can avoid\ntaking analgesic for headaches, I really can't avoid them entirely because\nI have other pain sources, that \"force\" me to use them (Oh, I forgot\nto mention that it has been suggested to me that I have back surgery,\nbut I'm avoiding that too). I find the migraines difficult to deal with,\noccassionally I have to take off work, but usually I can work, but at\na reduced capacity (I'm a systems engineer and do a lot of reading\nand writing). When the pelvic pain is bad, I can't concentrate much,\nI usually end up jumping out of my chair every few minutes, because\nthe pain is so bothersome. When the pain in my back is bad, it can\ncause severe burning in both legs, shooting pains in my legs, electric\nshock type of pain in my feet and toes, and basically when it gets bad\nI can't really sit at all. Then I end up spending most of my time home\nand in bed. So even if the analgesics contribute to the migraines, the\nmigraines are more tolerable than the other pain sources. I get a lot\nof migraines, an average of 3 to 4 a month, which last 1-3 days.\nI've taken cafergot (the first time the caffiene really got to me so\nI reduced the dosage), but I don't like the side effects (if I take\nmore than two I get diahrea). If I get a very bad headache, I will\neventually take the cafergot. My neurologist wasn't very helpful when\nI told him my problems with cafergot, he said that when sumatriptan\nbecomes available, I should try that. I've tried several other medications\n(fiornal, midrin, fiornal with codeine, tegretol, and inderal) but\nthey either didn't work, or I couldn't tolerate them. So what can I do?\nMy doctor's seem to be satisfied with me just trying to tolerate the\npain, which I agree with most of the time, but not when I have a lot of\npain. I've had some bad experiences with surgery (my heart stopped\nonce from the anesthesia - I was told that it was likely the\nsuccinylcholine), and I've already had surgery several times.\n\nAnyway, the point of what I'm saying is that even if analgesics can contribute\nto migraines, some people NEED to take them to tolerate other pain.", "\nI was under the (possibly incorrect) assumption that most of the MSG on\nour foods was made from processing sugar beets. Is this not true? Are \nthere other sources of MSG?\n\nI am one of those folx who react, sometimes strongly, to MSG. However,\nI also react strongly to sodium chloride (table salt) in excess. Each\ncauses different symptoms except for the common one of rapid heartbeat\nand an uncomfortable feeling of pressure in my chest, upper left quadrant.\n\n", "\n\nAntihistamines have been the active ingredient of OTC sleep aids for\ndecades. Go to any drugstore and look at the packages of such sleep\naids as Sominex, Nytol, etc. The active ingredient is:\ndiphenhydramine, the same antihistamine that's in Benadryl.\n\n\n\n--\nSteven Litvintchouk\nMITRE Corporation\n202 Burlington Road\nBedford, MA 01730-1420", "If anyone has any information on this deficiency I would very greatly\nappreciate a response here or preferably by Email. All I know at this\npoint is a deficiency can cause myoglobin to be released, and in times\nof stress and high ambient temperature could cause renal failure.\nx\n", "\nYour hearing curve sounds a lot like mine (thanks, Uncle Sam!). I've been\nwearing Miracle Ear canal aids for about 5 months now and I find them to be\nacceptable. They are molded to the shape of your ear canal, and tuned to \nyour hearing curve. They are comfortable to wear and almost invisible, if\nyou're worried about that (although if you're currently wearing behind the\near models, that's not an issue). The cost: I paid $1200 each for mine,\nthrough the Miracle Ear counter at Sears. I've heard that there is a\nsubstantial discount for senior citizens, but I haven't researched that, because\nI'm not a senior citizen, yet!\n\nGive them a try; you might be pleasantly surprised!\n\n", "\nFirst, I am not a doctor. I know about this because I have been\nthrough it.\n\nIt sounds like tonsilitis (lit. swollen tonsils). Feel under your jaw\nhinge for a swelling on each side. If you find them, its tonsilitis.\nI've had this a couple of times in the past. The doctor prescribed a\nweeks course of penicillin and that cleared it up.\n\nIn my case it was associated with glandular fever, which is a viral\ninfection which (from my point of view) resembled flu and tonsilitis\nthat kept coming back for a year or so. There is a blood test for\nthis.\n\nIn conclusion, see a doctor (if you have not done so already).\n\nPaul.", "\nI have a long sighted eye and a short sighted eye. My right eye tends\nto cut out when I look at distant things, my left eye when I am close\nup. I had specs to balance things up a bit but could do without them.\nI thought that, one way or another, I would always be able to see\nclearly. Unfortunately middle age is rearing its ugly head and I can\nno longer see close up objects clearly. Maybe it's just that my arms\nare getting shorter :-)\n", "\n\nBy law, they would not be allowed to do that anyhow.\n\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "\n\nOne more reason for men to learn the Lamaze breathing techniques, in order\nto be able to get some pain reduction instantly, wherever you are.", "\n\nA brain abscess is an infection deep in the brain substance. It is\nhard to cure with antibiotics, since it gets walled off, and usually,\nit needs surgical drainage.\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "Have you ever met a chemist? A food industry businessman? You must\npersonally know a lot of them for you to be able to be so certain that they\nare evil mosters whose only goal is to inflict as much pain and disease\nas possible into the general public. Gimme a break.\n \n\n person who is very sensitive to msg and whose wife and kids are\n \nBecause it makes the food TASTE BETTER! Why does it put salt in food?\nSame reason.\n\n\nObviously.\n \n\n \nOf course not! (Although I would think that a person like you would be a\nbig fan of such recycling if that were the case).\n\n \nOn occasion that's probably the case, but in general the idea is that MSG\nimproves the flavor of certain foods.\n \n \nNo.\n \n \nNo.\n \n \nObviously.\n \n \nAs I recall, these are natural by-products of heating up certain foods.\nThey don't \"put it in there\".\n \n \nhave a number of criteria in choosing how to process food. They want to\nmake it taste good, look good, sell for a good price, etc. The fact that they\nuse it tells me that THEY think that it contributes to those goals they are\ninterested in. One of those goals is NOT \"making people sick\". Such a goal\nwoud quickly drive them out of business and for no benefit.\n \n \nWarning of what? In California there is a law requiring that ANYTHING which\ncontains a carcinogen be labeled. That includes every gasline pump, most\nfoods, and even money cleaning machines (because Nickel is a mild carcinogen).\nThe result is that now nobody pays any attention to ANY of the warnings.\n \n \nWhy? What if not 30% of people wanted to buy this ugly, rotten, not-as-tasty\nfood? I guess it will just be wasted, huh? How terribly efficient.\n \n \nBecause it makes food look better. I LIKE food that looks good.\nIf vitamin companies want to do that it is fine, but who are you to\ntell THEM how to make vitamins? Who are you to tell ME whether I should\nbuy flavored vitamins for my kids (who can't swallow the conventional ones\nwhole).\n \n \nHow do you define \"junk\"? Is putting \"salt\" in food bad? What about\nPepper? What about alcohol as a preservative? What about sealing jars\nwith wax? What about vinegar? You seem to think that \"chemicals\" are\nsomehow different than \"food\". The fact is that all foods are 100% chemicals.\nYou are just expressing an irrational prejudice against food processing.", "\nI'll probably get flamed for this, but when I was a kid we would go to\nmy uncles cabin on Middle Bass Island on Lake Erie. We always came home\nwith a nasty case of jiggers (large red bumps where the buggers had\nburrowed into the skin). My mother would paint the bumps with clear\nfinger nail polish. This was repeated daily for about a week or so. The\napplication of the polish is supposed to suffocate them as it seals of\nthe skin. All I can say is it worked for us. One word of caution\nthough. Putting finger nail polish on a jigger bite stings like hell.\n\n(If I do get flamed for this just put jam in my pockets and call me\ntoast.:)\n", "Does anyone know how posionous centipedes and millipedes are? If someone\nwas bitten, how soon would medical treatment be needed, and what would\nbe liable to happen to the person?\n\n(Just for clarification - I have NOT been bitten by one of these, but my\nhouse seems to be infested, and I want to know 'just in case'.)", "\nEndometriosis is where cells that would normally be lining the uteris exist\noutside the uteris. Sometimes this causes problems, often it doesn't.\nThere is generally no need to remove pockets of endometriosis unless they are\ncausing other problems. One lady I know had Endometriosis in an ovary. \nThis caused her a _great_ deal of pain. Another lady I know has an \nendometrial cyst in her abdominal wall; she is not having it removed.\n\nThe American Fertility Society has information on this and they probably \nmaintain a list of physicians in all parts of the continent that deal with\nendometriosis. You can reach them at:\n\nThe American Fertility Society\n2140 11th Ave South\nSuite 200\nBirmingham, Alabama 35205-2800\n(205)933-8494", "I like to know how effective ProHibit is to prevent spiral meningitis\nfor a child who is five years old. I heard it's from Canada.\nWhat sort of side effects , etc.", "\nSo what's your local hospital's favorite curse?", "Our 20-month son has started falling sick quite often every since he\nstarted going to day care. He was at home for the first year and he did\nnot fall sick even once. Now it seems like he has some sort of cold or\nflu pretty much once a month. Most of the time the cold leads to an ear\ninfection as well, with the result that he ends up being on antibiotics\n3 weeks out of 4. I know kids in day care fall sick more often, but we\nare beginning to wonder how often \"more often\" really is, whether our\nson is more susceptible or has lower immunity than average, what the\nlonger-term effects of constantly being sick and taking antibiotics are,\nand what we can do to build up his resistance. He really enjoys his day\ncare and we think it's great too, but we are beginning to wonder whether\nwe should think about getting a nanny.\n\nAre there any studies that can help answer some of these questions?\n\n-- How often do kids in their first, second and third years fall sick?\nHow often do they get colds, flus, ear infections? Is there any data on\nhome care vs. day care?\n\n-- Does being sick \"build immunity\" (leading to less illness later),\ndoes it make kids \"weaker\" (leading to more illness later), or does it\nnot have any long term effect?\n\n-- Does taking antibiotics on a regular basis have any negative long\nterm effects?\n\n-- How does one tell if a child is more susceptible to illness than\nnormal, and what does one do about it?\n\n-- Is there any way to build immunity and resistance?\n\nAny data, information or advice relating to this would be much\nappreciated. Thanks a lot.", "\n\nCarl, it is not \"placebo effect\" if as hypothesised the \nsensory response to MSG's effect on flavor is responsible\nfor the MSG reaction.", "\nIn myopia the cornea is too curved. There is too much of a bulge in the\ncenter.\n\nIn PRK the laser removes a small amount of material from the center.\n\nIn RK the surgeon cuts incisions near the edge. They heal, and the scarring\nreshapes the cornea.\n\nEntirely different mechanisms, and the action is in a different place.", "by the way ms. olmstead dna is not degraded in the stomach nor\nunder pH of 2. its degraded in the duodenum under approx.\nneutral pH by DNAase enzymes secreted by the pancreas. my\npoint: check your facts before yelling at other people for not\ndoing so. just a friendly suggestion.\n", "\n\nNon-steroid. Proventil is a brand of albuterol, a bronchodilator. \n\nRegards,", "Some of the MD's in this newsgroup have been riding my butt pretty good\n(maybe in some cases with good reason). In this post on depression, I'm \nlaying it all out. I'll continue to post here because I think that I have \nsome knowledge that could be useful. Once you have read this post, you \nshould know where I'm coming from when I post again in the future.\n\n \nLida,\nI can emphasize with your situation. Both my wife and I suffered from \nbouts of depression. Her's was brought on by breast cancer and mine was a \nrebound stress reaction to her modified radical mastectomy and \nchemotherapy. Lida, I used my knowledge of nutrition to get her through \nher six months of chemotherapy(with the approval of her oncologist). When \nsevere depression set in a few months after the chemo stopped, I tried to \nuse supplements to bring her out of it. I had \"cured\" her PMS using \nsupplements and I really thought that I knew enough about the role of diet \nin depression to take care of her depression as well. It didn't work and \nshe was put on Prozac by her oncologist. Two Winters ago(three years after \nby wife's breast cancer) I got hit with severe depression(pretty typical and \none reason why many marriages break up after breast cancer or another \nstressor). I tried to take care of it for several months with \nsupplementation. Didn't work. My internist ended up putting me on Prozac. \nI was going to give you a list of several studies that have been done using \nB6, niacin, folate and B12 to \"cure\" depression. I'm not going to do that \nbecause all you would be doing is flying blind like I was.\n\nLida, I do believe that depression can have a dietary component. But the \nproblem is that you need to know exactly what the problem is and then use \nan approach which will \"fix\" the problem. For chemotherapy, I knew exactly \nwhat drugs were going to be used and exactly what nutrients would be \naffected. Same thing for PMS. I was flying blind for both of these \nstressors but the literature that I used to devise a treatment program was \npretty good. Depression is just too complicated. What you really need is \na nutritional scan. This is not a diet analysis but an analysis of your \nbodies nutrient reserves. For every vitamin and mineral(except vitamin C), \nyou have a reserve. The RDA is not designed to give you enough of any \nnutrient to keep these reserves full, it is only designed to keep them from \nbeing emptied which would cause clinical pathology. Stress will increase \nyour need for many vitamins and minerals. This is when your reserves become \nvery important.\n\nLida, without your permission, I'm going to use your post as a conduit to \ntry to explain to the readers in this group and Sci. Med. where I'm coming \nfrom. I have taught a course on human nutrition in one of the Osteopathic \nMedical schools for ten years now. I've written my own textbook because \nnone was available. What I teach is not a rehash of biochemistry. I \npreach nutrient reserves(yes my lectures in this course are referred to by \nmy students as sermons). Here is what I cover:\n\nIndroduction and Carbohydrates \t\t\tLipids\n\nProteins I\t\t\t\t\tProteins II\n\nEnergy Balance\t\t\t\t\tEvaluation of Nutritional\n\t\t\t\t\t\tStatus I, A Clinical \n\t\t\t\t\t\tPerspective\n\nEvaluation of Nutritional Status II, Evaluation of Nutritional\t\t\nA Biochemical Perspective\t\t\tStatus III, Homework \n\t\t\t\t\t\tAssignment Using the \n\t\t\t\t\t\tNutritionist IV Diet and \n\t\t\t\t\t\tFitness Analysis Software \n\t\t\t\t\t\tprogram\n\nWeight Control\t\t\t\t\tFood Fads and Facts\n\nAge-Related Change in Nutrient Requirements\tFood Additives, \n\t\t\t\t\t\tContaminants and Cancer\n\nDrug-Nutrient Interactions\t\t\tMineral and Water Balance\n\nSodium, Potassium and Chloride\t\t\tCalcium, Magnesium and \n\t\t\t\t\t\tPhosphorus\n\nIron\t\t\t\t\t\tZinc and Copper\n\nIodine and Fluoride\t\t\t\tOther Trace Minerals\n\nVitamin A\t\t\t\t\tVitamin E\n\nVitamins D and K\t\t\t\tVitamin C\n\nThiamin and Niacin\t\t\t\tRiboflavin and Pyridoxine\n\nPantothenic and Folic acids\t\t\tBiotin and B12\n\nOther Nutrient Factors\t\t\t\tEnteral Nutrition\n\nParenteral Nutrition\n\nEvery three years I spend my entire Summer reviewing the Medical literature \nto find material that I can use in my nutrition textbook. I last did this \nin the Summer of 1991. I read everything that I can find and then sit down \nand rewrite my lecture handouts which are bound in three separate books \nthat have 217, 237 and 122 pages. Opposite each page of written text(which \nI write myself) I've pulled figures, tables and graphs from various \ncopyrighted sources. Since this material is only being used for \neducational purposes, I can get around the copyright laws (so far). I can not \nsend this material out to newsgroup readers(as I've been asked to do).\n\nI am now in the process of trying to get a grant to setup a nutrition \nassessment lab. This is the last peice of the nutrition puzzle that I need \nto make my education program complete. This lab will let me measure the \nnutrient reserve for almost all the vitamins and minerals that are known to \nbe required in humans. The Mayo clinic already uses a similiar lab to \ndesign supplement programs for their cancer patients. Cancer Treatment \nCenters of America, which is a private for-profit organization with \nhospitals in Illinois and Oklahoma(Tulsa) also operates a \nnutritional assessment clinical lab. I also believe that the Pritikin \nClinic in California has a similiar lab setup.\n\nFor physicians reading this post, I would suggest that you get the new \nClinical Nutrition Textbook that has just been published(Feb) by Mosby. I \nhave been using Alpers Manual of Nutritional Therapeutics(a Little Brown \nseries book) as a supplemental text for my course but Alpers is geared more \nto residency training. Two M.D's have written this new Clinical Nutrition\ntextbook and it is geared more towards medical student education and it \ndoes a good job of covering the lab tests that can be run to assess a \npatient's nutritional status. Let me quote a few sentences from the \nPreface of this new text:\n\n\"So-called nutrition specialists were in reality gastroenterologists, \nhematologists, or pediatricians who just happened to profess some knowledge \nof nutrition as it related to their field of practice.\" \n\n\"Unfortunately, about two thirds of the medical schools in the United \nStates require no formal instruction in nutrition.\"\n\n\"But times and medical practice have changed. More than half of the \nleading causes of death in this country are nutrition related.\"\n\n\"... this monograph should accomplish the following two objectives: (1) it \nshould complement your medical training by emphasizing the relevance of \nnutrition to your medical practice; and (2) it should heighten your \nawareness of nutrition as a medical speciality that is vitally important \nfor both disease prevention and the treatment of diseases of essentially \nevery organ system.\"\n\nRoland L. Weinsier, MD, DrPH \n\nLida, my advise to you is that you tell your family members to try to find \na physician who has an understanding of the role that vitamins and minerals\n(yes even magnesium may play a role in depression) play in depression and \nwho could get a nutritional profile run. Menopause is often a time when \nwomen suffer depression. There are a lot of hormonal changes that are \noccuring but they are not the same ones that occur during PMS. A \nnutritionist may also be able to help. Not too long ago a poster mentioned \nthat his nutritionist had diagnosed a selenium deficiency based on a red \ncell glutathionine peroxidase test(the specific test for the selenium \nreserve). Most clinical labs will not run this test and I advised him to \ntry to make sure that the lab that did the test was certified. There are \nalso a lot of hair and nail analysis labs setup to do trace mineral \nanalysis but these labs are not regulated. Checks of these labs using \ncertified standards, and also those doing water lead analysis, showed some \npretty shoddy testing was going on. If you or anyone else finds someone \nwho will run these speciality nutrition tests, make sure that they are \nusing a lab that has been certified under CLIA(the Clinical Laboratory \nImprovement Act). \n\nA diet analysis may be helpful since many nutrient reserves have been shown \nto correlate fairly well with the dietary intake as monitored by food logging \nand software analysis(Nutritionist IV and other software programs). But \nthere are still about half of the nutrients required by humans that do not \nshow a very good correlation between apparent dietary intake and reserve status.\nUntil we have more nutritional assessment clinical labs in operation in the \nU.S. and physicians who have been trained how to use the nutritional \nprofile that these labs provide to devise a treatment approach that uses \ndiet changes and supplementation, anti-depressants will probably continue \nto be the best approach to depression.\n\nMartin Banschbach, Ph.D.\nProfessor of Biochemistry and Chairman\nDepartment of Biochemistry and Microbiology\nOSU College of Osteopathic Medicine", ":Hello,\n:I heard that a certain disease (toxoplasmosys?) is transmitted by cats which\n:can harm the unborn fetus. Does anybody know about it? Is it a problem to \n:have a cat in the same apartment?\n:\n\nHaving the cat around is not a problem, but the pregnant woman should not\nchange the litter box. Toxoplasmosis can be transmitted from the stool of\nsome cats.\n", "Hello!\n\nI need a technique for separation of polymorphonuclear neutrophils (PMN)\nfrom the peripheral blood of mice. Because of the low PMN:Lymphocyte ratio\n(approx. 20:80) it«s not just as easy as the corresponding technique used\nwith human blood.\n\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tYours,\n \n \t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t Per-Arne Melander\n", ": \n: >move a little, the pain will be excrutiating. I was told by my doctor\n: >at that time that the pain was comparable to that of childbirth. (Yes,\n: >by a male doctor, so I'm sure some of you women will disagree). I'd\n: >really like to know the truth in this, so maybe some of you women who\n: >have had a baby and a kidney stone could fill me in. \n: \n: One more reason for men to learn the Lamaze breathing techniques, in order\n: to be able to get some pain reduction instantly, wherever you are.\n: -- \n: :- Michael A. Covington, Associate Research Scientist : *****\n: :- Artificial Intelligence Programs mcovingt@ai.uga.edu : *********\n: :- The University of Georgia phone 706 542-0358 : * * *\n: :- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** ** <><\n\nIt would have been pretty difficult to practice my hee hee's while I was\nkeeled over pukeing my guts out though.\n\n--", "Hi...\n\nI need information on scaring. Particularly as a result of grazing the skin\nI really wanted to know of \n\n\t1. would a scar occur as a result of grazing\n\t2. if yes, then would it disappear?\n\t3. how long does a graze take to heal?\n\t4. will hair grow on it once it has healed?\n\t5. what is 'scar tissue'?\n\t6. should antiseptic cream be applied to it regularly?\n\t7. is it better to keep it exposed and let fresh air at it?\n\nPlease help - any info - no matter how small will be appreciated greatly. ", ": A very simple question : it seems to me that the contraceptive\n: pill just prevents the ovule to nest in the vagina and forces it to\n: fall every month. But it does not prevent the fertilzation of the \n: ovule. Is it true ? If yes, is there a risk of extra-uterine\n: pregnancy, that is the development of the ovule inside the Fallopian\n: tube ?\n\nActually that is not how the pill works, but it *is* how the IUD works.\nThe oral contraceptive pill actually *prevents* ovulation from occuring\nby providing negatve feedback to the pituitary gland, and thus preventing\nthe LH surge that normally occurs at the time of ovulation. With the IUD\nwhat happens is that fertilization may occur, but the device prevents\nimplantation within the wall of the uterus (*not* the vagina).\n", "There is this newsgroup sci.med.physics and there has been quite a lot\ndiscussion in this group about many chemical items e.g. prolactin\ncholesterol, TSH etc. Should there also be a newsgroup sci.med.chemistry?\n\n", "When I was a school boy, my biology teacher told us of an incident\nin which a couple were very passionate without actually having\nsexual intercourse. Somehow the girl became pregnent as sperm\ncells made their way to her through the clothes via persperation.\n\nWas my biology teacher misinforming us, or do such incidents actually\noccur?", "Dr. willian Horatio Bates born 1860 and graduated from med school\n1885. Medical career hampered by spells of total amnesia. Published in\n1920, his great work \"The Cure of Imperfect Eyesight by Treatment With-\nout Glasses\", He made claims about how the eye actually works that are\nsimply NOT TRUE. Aldous Huxley was one of the more \"high profile\"\nbeleivers in his system. Mr. Huxley while giving a lecture on Bates system\nforgot the lecture that he was supposedely reading and had to put the\npaper right up to his eyes and then resorted to a magnifying glass from\nhis pocket. book have been written debunking this technique, however\nthey remain less read than the original fraud. cheers", "\nYour medical school library should have books on peripheral nerve\ninjuries. Probably it was your brachial plexus, so look that up.\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "Cause and cures for fever blisters respectfully requested.\nThanks!\n :-D iane", "\n\n\nActually, severe headaches due to stopped up sinuses (plugged ostia) are\npossible, and sinus surgery which widens the ostia - from the normal 2\nmm to about 10 mm - should relieve this. There are non-surgical ways,\nhowever, to keep the ostia open (however, in a few individuals, their\nostia are naturally very small), and Dr. Ivker's book talks about this.\nThe underlying cause of chronic sinusitis is NOT cured by this kind of\nsinus surgery, though.\n\nAbout asthma, that's a little more controversial. Dr. Ivker, in his book,\n\"Sinus Survival\", *speculates* (and says it's not proven), that many cases\nof asthma are triggered by chronic sinusitis due to the excessive drainage\n(postnasal drip) from the sinuses. He's had many patients who've found\nrelief from asthma when the chronic sinusitis is reduced or eliminated -\nnot clinical proof, but compelling anecdotal information of this speculation.\n\nBefore doing any sinus surgery, first get THE BOOK - it discusses surgery,\nas well as a good non-surgical treatment program for chronic sinusitis.\n\nJon Noring\n\n-- \n\nCharter Member --->>> INFJ Club.", "\nIt's bad jokes like that which draws crohns, I mean groans from the crowd...\nDon't bother looking it up in the appendix, it's useless anyway.\n \nJust one more word of advice...\n\nIf you go to a Miami game, stay away from any foods made with \"natural casings\"\n\n:)\n--", "\n\nSjogren's syndrome has been known to induce dryness in vaginal tissue as well\nas induce primary biliary cirrhosis. Otherwise the abdominal swelling could be\ndue to a complication of Sjogren's known as pseudolymphoma which *can* produce\na splenomegaly (enlarged spleen). She should definitely see a rheumatologist.\n\nSince you don't mention skin disorder, anemia, or joint pain you'd probably\nrule out erythema nodosum or scleroderma.\n\nJosh\nbackon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL\n\n", "\n\nYeah!\n\nI found beelzebub inside a worm...yeah, that's it!\n\n(actually it was vodka - Gordon's if I remember correctly...\nI didn't even buy it (of course, that's probably the reason\nI drank _so_ much of it that night...never again.)\n\n", "The burden of proof rests upon those who claim the existence\nof this \"syndrome\". To date, these claims are unsubstantiated\nby any available data. Hopefully, as a scientist, you would\ntake issue with anyone overstating their conclusions based\nupon their data.\n\nGee, I have many interesting and enlightening anecdotes about\nmyself, my friends, and my family, but in the practice of\nmedicine I expect and demand more rigorous rationales for\nbasing therapy than \"Aunt Susie's brother-in-law ...\".\n\nAnecdotal evidence may provide inspiration for a hypothesis,\nbut rarely proves anything in a positive sense. And unlike\nmathematics, boolean logic rarely applies directly to medical\nissues, and so evidence of 'exceptions' does not usually\ndisprove but rather modifies current concepts of disease.\n\nI would characterize it not as 'abject disbelief' but rather \n'scientific outrage over vastly overstated conclusions'.\n\nI have no problem with such an approach; but this is NOT what\nis happening in the 'trenches' of this diagnosis.", "I have a fairly severe high frequency hearing loss. A recent rough test\nshowed a gently sloping loss to 10-20db down at 1000cps. Then it falls off\na cliff to 70-80dbs down from 1500cps on. This type of loss is difficult\nto fit. I am currently using some old siemens behind the ear aids which\nkeep me roughly functional, but leave a lot to be desired.\n\nRecently I had an opportunity to test the Widex Q8 behind the ear aids for\nseveral weeks. These have four independent programs which are intended to\nbe customized for different hearing situations and can be reprogramed. I\nfound them to be a definite improvement over my current aids and was about\nto go ahead with them until another local outfit advertised a free trial of\nanother programmable system called ReSound.\n\nUnfortunately I was only able to try the ReSound aids in their office for\nabout 30 minutes and I couldn't compare them 'head to head' with the Widex.\nNevertheless, it did appear to me that they were superior and I was\nimpressed by what I was able to read about the theory behind them which I\nwill give in a separate posting. They also carry the Widex aids and had one\npatient (presumably wealthy) who decided to go ahead and get the ReSound\neven though he had purchased the Widex only 6 months ago.\n\nThe problem is that the ReSound aids are about twice as expensive as the\nWidex and other programmable aids. I could take a trip to Europe on the\ndifference! Being a lover of bargains and hating to spend money, I am\nhaving a hard time persuading myself to go with the ReSounds. I would\nappreciate any opinions on this and other hearing aids and projections\nabout when and if I might see improvements in technology that aren't quite\nso expensive.", "\n\n\tAsk the practitioner whether he uses the pre-sterilized disposable\nneedles, or if he reuses needles, sterilizing them between use. In the\nformer case there's no conceivable way to get AIDS from the needles. In\nthe latter case it's highly unlikely (though many practitioners use the\ndisposable variety anyway).\n\neuclid", "\nMy daughter has Epilepsy and I attend a monthly parent support group.\nJust Wednesday night, a mother was telling how she decided to throw\nall the junk food out and see if it made a difference in her 13 year-old's\nseizures. He was having about one seizure per week. She reported that\nshe did this on Thursday (3/11), he had a seizure on Saturday and then\nwent 4 weeks without a seizure!! On Easter he went to Grandma's and ate \ncandy, pop - anything he wanted. He had a seizure the next day. She \nsees sensitivity to nutrasweet, sugar, colors, caffine and corn. With\ncorn she says, he gets very nervous and aggresive. \n\nWith my own daughter (age 7) , I think she is also sensitive and stays\naway from those foods on her own. She has never had gum, won't eat\ncandy, prefers an apple to a cookie, doesn't like chocolate and won't\neven use toothpaste!!! Her brother, on the other hand, is a junk food\naddict! ", "\n\n\n\n\n\tMillipedes, I understand, are vegetarian, and therefore almost\ncertainly will not bite and are not poisonous. Centipedes are\ncarnivorous, and although I don't have any absolute knowledge on this, I\nwould tend to think that you're in no danger from anything but a\nconcerted assault by several million of them.", "I have just started taking allergy shots a month ago and is \nstill wondering what I am getting into. A friend of mine told\nme that the body change every 7 years (whatever that means)\nand I don't need those antibody-building allergy shots at all.\nDoes that make sense to anyone?", "Cancel private health insurance?\n\n\tWhen government care that only covers 20% of the population consumes\n42% of the spending for health care?\n\n\tNOT!\n\n\tNational Health Expenditures: 1960 to 1990\n(Includes Puerto Rico and outlying areas.)\n\nYear\tHealth Services and Supplies ($billions)\n\tPrivate\t\tPublic\n====================================\n1960\t$19.8\t\t$5.7\t(22% of total)\n1970\t$44.1\t\t$24.9\t(56% of total)\n1980\t$140.7\t\t$98.1\t(41% of total)\n1990\t$374.8\t\t$268.6\t(42% of total)\n\n[Source: American Almanac, Page 97. 1992-3 Edition]\n\n\tNow you understand where most of that 12.2% of GNP is going--to waste.\n\n\tBy these figures, private insurance is spending 58% of the money to\ncover 4 times as many people.\n\n\tGo figure.", "\n\nYou probably were trying to be facetious but just for the record partial nasal\nobstruction is correlated with a number of chronic disorders such as migraine,\nhyperthyroidism, asthma, peptic ulcer, dysmenorrhea, and lack of libido (:-) )\n[Riga IN. Rev d'Oto-Neuro-Ophthalmol 1957;24:325-335], cardiac symptoms\n[Jackson RT. Annals of Otology 1976;85:65-70 Cvetnic MH, Cvetnic V. Rhinology\n1980;18:47-50 Cottle MH. Rhinology 1980;18:67-81], and fever, inadequate\noral intake and electrolyte imbalance [Fairbanks DNF. Otorhinolaryngology Head\nand Neck Surgery 1986;94:412-415).\n\nSo before you post your inane comments it would be nice if you'd run a MEDLINE\nsearch on the topic say back to 1966. There's been extensive literature on this\nfor over a 100 years.\n\nI may be in cardiology but I've had a very good working relationship with\nmy colleagues from ENT.", "\n\nLike non-Sudafed cold medicines? 1/2 :-) ", "My girlfriend is in pain from kidney stones. She says that because she has no\nmedical insurance, she cannot get them removed.\n\nMy question: Is there any way she can treat them herself, or at least mitigate\ntheir effects? Any help is deeply appreciated. (Advice, referral to literature,\netc...)\n\nThank you,", "\nGee, what do I do? My LDL is only 50-60. (and my HDL is only 23-25)\nI must be risking something, but Is it the same risk as those with \nvery high LDL?\n\n\nWhat about exercise and a low-fat diet? What are the long-term \neffects of this drug?\n", "\nThree possible results after interview:\n1) rejection outright\n2) acceptance outright\n3) the infamous 'wait list'... \n\nIf you are on a 'wait list', your entrance into medical school\nis dependent upon some other applicant withdrawing their\nacceptance. This can happen as late as day -1 of starting\nclasses. \n\n\nYou can always call the admissions office. The secretaries\nshould have some idea of when a decision might be made on your\napplication. Be calm, respectful, and friendly; secretaries\nhave more power than you might realize, and you never know-\ncould be the dean of admissions answering the phone.\n\n\nIf you don't get in this year, sit down and re-evaluate\nyourself: your motives, desires, and goals that are directing\nyou into medicine; your academic and extracurricular\naccomplishments. Make a decision about whether you *really*\nwant to be a medical doctor. I had classmates who dropped out\nin the first semester of med school because they found it was\nnot what they wanted to do; I have friends who applied four\nyears in a row before they were accepted. Medicine as a\ncareer is a choice you must make for yourself; DON'T be\npushed into it because of your parents/family/significant\nother. \n\nIf you still want to be a medical doctor, determine how you\ncan improve your application. A letter of recommendation from\na professor who knows you well and can give an honest positive\nrecommendation is far better than one from a 'big-shot' famous\nprofessor who only vaguely remembers your face. Also, don't\nbe afraid to ask these people if they can give you an honest\nand positive recommendation; give them a chance to say 'no,\nsorry' instead of the medical school saying 'no, sorry'. I\nhave turned down writing recommendations for some students\nbecause I did not know them well enough to make any meaningful\ncomments, and some because I honestly could not recommend them\nat that point. \n\nRewrite your personal statement; take it by an English\nprofessor or some other friendly person with skill and\nexperience in writing and proof-reading and get their\ncriticism, both about what you are saying as well as how you\nsay it.\n\nReview your academic accomplishments. If your grades are poor\nin some area, don't be afraid to spend some time in further\ncoursework. Evidence of determined committment will help\nhere. If you filled your pre-medicine curriculum with gut\ncourses, it usually shows.\n\nLook at your extracurricular involvements. Participating in\nlocal philanthropic or service organizations is a plus;\nsubstantial leadership roles in an organization help also.\nBeware of 'resume padding'; such things are not difficult to\nspot and weed out.\n\nOverall, a clear conception of where you wish to head and why\nyou want to get there, combined with an honest self-appraisal\nof skills and aptitude, will be the best path to take in\napplying to any program, medical or what-have-you.\n\nGood luck with the process -- as Tom Petty says, 'the waiting\nis the hardest part', at least emotionally. :)", "-> \n-> Some recent postings remind me that I had read about risks \n-> associated with the barbecuing of foods, namely that carcinogens \n-> are generated. Is this a valid concern? If so, is it a function \n-> of the smoke or the elevated temperatures? Is it a function of \n-> the cooking elements, wood or charcoal vs. lava rocks? I wish \n-> to know more. Thanks. \n\n\tI've read mixed opinions on this. Singed meat can contain\ncarcinogens, but unless you eat barbecued meat every meal, you're\nprobably not at much risk. I think I will live life on the edge and\ngrill my food.\n\n\tI've also read that using petroleum based charcoal starter can\nput some unwanted toxins in your food, or at least unwanted odor.\nI've been using egg carton cups dipped in paraffin for fire starters,\nand it actually lights faster and easier than lighter fluid. Several\npeople have told me that they have excellent results with a chimney,\nbasically a steel cylinder with wholes punched in the side. I've been\nmeaning to get one of these, but one hasn't presented itself while\nI've been out shopping. You can make one from a coffee can, but I buy\nmy coffee as whole beans in a bag, so I haven't had a big enough can\nlaying around.", "A very simple question : it seems to me that the contraceptive\npill just prevents the ovule to nest in the vagina and forces it to\nfall every month. But it does not prevent the fertilzation of the \novule. Is it true ? If yes, is there a risk of extra-uterine\npregnancy, that is the development of the ovule inside the Fallopian\ntube ?", "K(>\nK(> RR> OTOH, who are we kidding, the New England Medical Journal in 1984\nK(> RR> ran the heading: \"Ninety Percent of Diseases are not Treatable by\nK(> RR> Drugs or Surgery,\" which has been echoed by several other reports.\nK(> RR> No wonder MDs are not amused with alternative medicine, since\nK(> RR> the 20% magic of the \"placebo effect\" would award alternative \nK(> RR> practitioners twice the success rate of conventional medicine...\nK(> \nK(> 1: \"90% of diseases\" is not the same thing as \"90% of patients\".\nK(> \nK(> In a world with one curable disease that strikes 100 people, and nine\nK(> incurable diseases which strikes one person each, medical science will cure\nK(> 91% of the patients and report that 90% of diseases have no therapy.\nK(> \nK(> 2: A disease would be counted among the 90% untreatable if nothing better than\nK(> a placebo were known. Of course MDs are ethically bound to not knowingly\nK(> dispense placebos...\nK(> \nK(> -dk\n \n Hmmm... even *without* the ;-) at the end, I didn't think anyone\n was going to take the mathematics or statistics of my post seriously.\n \n I only hope that you had the same thing in mind with your post, \n otherwise you would need at least TWO ;-)'s at the end to help \n anyone understand your calculations above...\n\n --Ron--", "\n\nMoney probably has a lot to do with keeping the practice of routine \ncircumcision alive... It's another opporitunity to charge a few hundred\nextra bucks for a completely unnecessary procedure, the rationale for \nwhich until recently has been accepted without question by most\nparents of newborns. \n\nOne could also imagine that complications arising from circumcision\n(infections, sloppy jobs, etc) are far more common than the remote chance\nof penile cancer it is purported to prevent. \n \n", "...\n\n\nDoes it matter that the study (yes, singular) that showed LSD causing\nbirth defects also holds true for aspirin? Does it matter that\nthis study is flat-out wrong, and LSD does not give you a greater\nrisk of having children with birth defects?\n", "\n\nIf people are going to do this, I really wish they would tell me first.\nI'd be happy to go over the insert (in the PDR) with them and explain\neverything. All too many patients read the insert and panic and then\non the next visit sheepishly admit they were afraid to take the drug\nand we are starting over again at square one. Some of them probably\ndidn't even come back for followup because they didn't want to admit\nthey wouldn't take the drug or thought I was trying to kill them or\nsomething. What people don't understand about the inserts is that they\nreport every adverse side effect ever reported, without substantiating\nthat the drug was responsible. The insert is a legal document to slough\nliability from the manufacturer to the physician if something was to\nhappen. If patients want to have the most useful and reliable information\non a drug they would be so much better off getting hold of one of the\nAMA drug evaluation books or something similar that is much more scientific.\nThere are very few drugs that someone hasn't reported a death from taking.\nPatients don't realize that and don't usually appreciate the risks\nto themselves properly. I'm sure Herman is going to \"go ballistic\",\nbut so be it. Another problem is that probably most drugs have been\nreported to cause impotence. Half the males who read that will falsely assume\nit could permanently cause them to lose sexual function and so will\nrefuse to take any drug like that. This can be a real problem for\nPDR readers. There needs to be some way of providing patients with\ntools geared to them that allow them to get the information they need.\nI am involved in a research project to do that, with migraine as the\ndomain. It involves a computer system that will provide answers to questions\nabout migraine as well as the therapy prescribed for the patient.\nFor common illnesses, such as migraine and hypertension, this may help\nquite a bit. The patient could spend as much time as needed with the\ncomputer and this would then not burden the physician. Clearly,\nphysicians in large part fail to answer all the questions patients have,\nas is demonstrated over and over here on the net where we get asked\nthings that the patients should have found out from their physician\nbut didn't. Why they didn't isn't always the physician's fault either.\nSometimes the patients are afraid to ask. They won't be as afraid to\nask the system, we hope.\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "I heard third-hand (not the best form of information) that there was recently\npublished results of a study on Multiple-Personality-Disorder Syndrome\npatients revealing some interesting clues that the root cause of allergy may\nhave a psychological trigger or basis. What I heard about this study was that\nin one 'personality', a MPDS patient exhibited no observable or clinical signs\nof inhalant allergy (scratch tests were used, according to what I heard),\nwhile in other personalities they showed obvious allergy symptoms, including\ntesting a full ++++ on scratch tests for particular inhalants.\n\nIf this is true, it is truly fascinating.\n\nBut, I'd like to know if this study was ever done, and if so, what the study\nreally showed, and where the study is published. Any help out there?\n\nJon Noring\n\n-- \n\nCharter Member --->>> INFJ Club.", "I have been hearing bad thing about amalgam dental fillings. Some say\nthe lead/ mercury leeches into your system and this is bad. And I have\nrecently heard that there is some suspicion that the mercury is a breeding\nground for bacteria that will be resistant to antibiotics. \n\nMy dentist wants to use an amalgam filling for me in a place where I have\ntwo cavaties in one tooth and wants to use one filling to cover both.\nHe says that composite filling don't hold up well when they are large.\nSo, I would like to know if there are any other choices besides amalgam\nand composite. And, should I really even be worried about amalgam? I\nheard that some scandanavian country does not even use them any more- \nis this true.\n\nAny information you can give me will be greatly appreciated.\n\n\nThanks!", "\nIt is illegal to perform acupuncture with unsterilized needles. No licensed\npractitioner would dare do this. Also there is not a single documented case\nof transmission of AIDS via acupuncture needles. I wouldn't worry about it.", "\n\tAgreed, but, yes, chapstick fits under the \"waxy shit\" category,\nalthough I've noticed that stealing Annette's chapstick (after she's\napplied it :-) kept my lips from cracking this past winter like they have\nin all previous winters. Sigh...the price I must pay...\n\n\n\tSo does my darling Annette (okay, I guess you can ready the\nbarf bags now :-)\n\nLater,", "\n\nPrecisely. One wonders what unusual strain the boy might be under that\ncould be causing \"difficulty with his behavior\". Standard practice would\nbe to get a second opinion from a child psychiatrist. One would want to\nrule out the possibility that the \"bad behavior\" is not psychiatric\nillness at all.\n\n(Disclaimer: I am not a medic. But I am a parent.)\n", "It's the number of legs on a centipede.\nSo, now you know.\n\n\n\n", "rousseaua@immunex.com writes about heat shock proteins (HSP's) and DNA.\n\nI hate to be derogatory, but in this case I think it's warranted.\n\nHSP's are part of the cellular response to stress. The only reason they\nare called 'heat shock proteins' is because they were first demonstrated\nusing heat shock. Dead tissue (ie. meat) is not going to produce ANY\nprotein- because it's DEAD! \n\nAlso, who cares if the DNA you are ingesting is mutated!? It will be \ncompletely digested in your stomach, which is about pH 2. \n\nSome of you worry WAY too much. Eat a healthy, balanced diet and relax.\n\nMy advice is, if you don't know what you are talking about, it is better\nto keep your mouth shut than to open it and remove all doubt about your\nignorance. Don't speculate, or at least get some concrete information\nbefore you do!\n\nSherry Olmstead\nBiochemist", "\nAbsolutely. Unfortunately, most of them have had 3 weeks of neurology\nin medical school and 1 month (maybe) in their residency. Most\nof that is done in the hospital where migraines rarely are seen.\nWhere are they supposed to learn? Those who are diligent and\nread do learn, but most don't, unfortunately.\n\n\nWe are the only ones, sometimes, who have enough interest in headaches\nto spend the time to get enough history to diagnose them. Too often,\nthe primary care physician hears \"headache\" and loses interest in\nanything but giving the patient analgesics and getting them out of\nthe office so they can get on to something more interesting.\n\n\n\nI hope you meant \"inarguably\".\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "\n\n\nThe case report of the first xenotransplant was published in Lancet 1993; 341:65-71.\nI can send you a reprint if you are interested.\nThere was another paper, sort of a tour of the horizon, written by Starzl and\npublished in the Resident's Edition of the Annals of Surgery (vol 216, October 1992).\nIt's in the Surgical Resident's Newsletter section, so you won't find it in the regular\nissue of the Annals. I don't have any reprints of that one.\nA paper has been accepted for publication by Immunology Today, though I'm not sure\nwhen it's coming out, describing our experience with the two xenografts done to date.\n\n\nAs for segmental liver transplants from living related donors I must confess to a total\nignorance of that literature. We are philosophically opposed to those, and I don't keep \nup with that particular field.\n\n=====================================================", "[reply to geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)]\n \n \n \nI made a decision a while back that I will not be bullied into getting\nstudies like a CT or MRI when I don't think they are indicated. If the\npatient won't accept my explanation of why I think the study would be a\nwaste of time and money, I suggest a second opinion.", "\nThere are many organisms, viral, bacterial, and fungal, which can\ncause meningitits, and the course of these infections varies\nwidely. The causes of bacterial meningitis vary with age: in adults\npneumococcus (the same organism which causes pneumococcal pneumonia)\nis the most common cause, while in children Hemophilus influenzae\nis the most common cause.\n\nWhat you are describing is meningitis from Neisseria meningitidis,\nwhich is the second most common cause of bacterial meningitis in\nboth groups, but with lower incidence in infants. This organism\nis also called the \"meningococcus\", and is the source of the\ncommon epidemics of meningitis that occur and are popularized in\nthe press. Without prompt treatment (and even WITH it in some cases),\nthe organism typically causes death within a day. \n\nThis organism, feared as it is, is actually grown from the throats\nof many normal adults. It can get to the meninges by different\nways, but blood borne spread is probably the usual case. \n\nRifampin (an oral antibiotic) is often given to family and contacts\nof a case of meningococcal meningitis, by the way.\n\nSorry, but I don't have time for a more detailed reply. Meningitis\nis a huge topic, and sci.med can't do it justice.\n", "BIOLOGICAL ALCHEMY\n \n ( ANOTHER Form of COLD FUSION )\n\n ( ALTERNATIVE Heavy Element Creation in Universe ) \n\n A very simple experiment can demonstrate (PROVE) the \n FACT of \"BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS\" (reactions like Mg + O \n --> Ca, Si + C --> Ca, K + H --> Ca, N2 --> CO, etc.), as \n described in the BOOK \"Biological Transmutations\" by Louis \n Kervran, [1972 Edition is BEST.], and in Chapter 17 of the \n book \"THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS\" by Peter Tompkins and \n Christopher Bird, 1973: \n\n (1) Obtain a good sample of plant seeds, all of the same \n kind. [Some kinds might work better that others.]\n\n (2) Divide the sample into two groups of equal weight \n and number.\n\n (3) Sprout one group in distilled water on filter paper \n for three or four weeks.\n\n (4) Separately incinerate both groups.\n\n (5) Weigh the residue from each group. [The residue of \n the sprouted group will usually weigh at least \n SEVERAL PERCENT MORE than the other group.]\n\n (6) Analyze quantitatively the residue of each group for \n mineral content. [Some of the mineral atoms of the \n sprouted group have been TRANSMUTED into heavier \n mineral elements by FUSING with atoms of oxygen, \n hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, etc..]\n\n \n BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS occur ROUTINELY, even in our \n own bodies. \n \n Ingesting a source of organic silicon (silicon with \n carbon, such as \"horsetail\" extract, or radishes) can SPEED \n HEALING OF BROKEN BONES via the reaction Si + C --> Ca, (much \n faster than by merely ingesting the calcium directly). \n \n Some MINERAL DEPOSITS in the ground are formed by micro-\n organisms FUSING together atoms of silicon, carbon, nitrogen, \n oxygen, hydrogen, etc.. \n \n The two reactions Si + C <--> Ca, by micro-organisms, \n cause \"STONE SICKNESS\" in statues, building bricks, etc.. \n \n The reaction N2 --> CO, catalysed by very hot iron, \n creates a CARBON-MONOXIDE POISON HAZARD for welder operators \n and people near woodstoves (even properly sealed ones). \n \n Some bacteria can even NEUTRALIZE RADIOACTIVITY! \n \n\n ALL OF THESE THINGS AND MORE HAPPEN, IN SPITE OF the \n currently accepted \"laws\" of physics, (including the law \n which says that atomic fusion requires EXTREMELY HIGH \n temperatures and pressures.) \n\n\n\n \"BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS, And Their Applications In \n CHEMISTRY, PHYSICS, BIOLOGY, ECOLOGY, MEDICINE, \n NUTRITION, AGRIGULTURE, GEOLOGY\", \n 1st Edition, \n by C. Louis Kervran, Active Member of New York Academy of \n Science, \n 1972, \n 163 Pages, Illustrated, \n Swan House Publishing Co.,\n P.O. Box 638, \n Binghamton, NY 13902 \n\n \n \"THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS\", \n by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird, \n 1973, \n 402 Pages, \n Harper & Row, \n New York\n [Chapters 19 and 20 are about \"RADIONICS\". Entire book is \n FASCINATING! ]\n \n\n For more information, answers to your questions, etc., \n please consult my CITED SOURCES (the two books). \n\n\n\n UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this \n IMPORTANT Information is ENCOURAGED. \n", "\n\nSecaris is reasonably inexpensive ($6.00 Cdn for a tube), and is indeed an\nover the counter medication. Why it does not appear to be available in the\nUS, I don't know. It's manufactured in Montreal.\n\nIt's a nasal lubricant, and is intended to help nosebleeds that result from\ndry mucous membranes.\n\nFrom some of the replies to my original posting, it's evident that some\npeople do not secrete enough mucous to keep their nose lining protected\nfrom environmental influences (ie, dry air). But I've had no responses\nfrom anyone with experience with Rutin. Is there another newsgroup that\nmight have specifics on herbal remedies?\n\nBut thanks to all those who did reply with their experiences.", "\nI got a male Mallard duck in the chest once.\n\nIt was like being kicked by my karate instructor.\n\nNo accident, but my eyes were tearing so hard, and I was wheezing\nso loudly, that it's quite remarkable that I was able to come\nto a stop with the rubber side up.\n\nThe duck, BTW, lived, and seemed quite healthy, though we both\nsat by the roadside and shook our heads for a few minutes.\n\nThe bruise went from my right collar bone all the way down to\nmy belly button.\n\nRegards, Charles\nDoD0.001\nRZ350", "Scientific American had a nice short article on the history of the\nhypodermic about 10 or 15 years ago. Prior to liquid injectables,\nthere were paddle-like needles used to implant a tiny pill under the\nskin.\n", "\n: \t\n: Hello,\n\n: Just one quick question:\n: My father has had a back problem for a long time and doctors\n: have diagnosed an operation is needed. Since he lives down in\n: Mexico, he wants to know if there is a hospital anywhere in\n: the United States particulary famous for this kind of surgery,\n: kind of like Houston has a reputation for excellent doctors\n: in eye surgery. Any additional info or pointers will be\n: appreciated a whole lot!...\n\nThere is one hospital that is here in New York City that is famous for its\northopedists, namely the Hospital for Special Surgery. They are located on\nthe upper east side of manhattan. If you want their address and phone let\nme know, i'll get them, i dont know them off hand.\n", "I am a student from San Leandro High school. I am doing a research\nproject for physics and I would like information on Edward Jenner and the\nvaccination for small pox. Any information at all would be greatly\napprectiated. Thank you.\n\n", "Robert,\n\nI'm *so* glad that you posted your Biological Alchemy discussion. I've \nbeen compared to the famous Robert McElwaine by some readers of Sci. Med.\nI didn't know how to respond since I had not seen one of your posts(just \nlike I haven't read \"The Yeast Connection\").\n\nLet me just start by stating that the authors of the \"Cold Fusion\" papers of \nrecent years are now in scientific exile(I believe that one has actually \nleft the country). Scientific fraud is rare. I'm still not sure that if a \nreview of the research notes of the \"cold fusion scientists\" actually \nproved fraud or just very shoddy experimentation.\n\nYour sources do not seem to be research articles. They are more like lay \ntexts designed to pique human interest in a subject area(just like the food \ncombining and life extension texts). Robert, I try to keep an open mind.\nBut some things I just can't buy(one is taking SOD orally to prevent \noxidative damage in the body).\n\nYour experiment, if conducted by readers of this news group, would prove \nthat you are right(more ash after seed sprouting than before). Unless you \nuse a muffle furnance and obtain a very high temperature(above 600 degrees \nI believe), you will get organic residue in the ash. Even the residue in \ncommercial incinerators contains organic residue. I remember doing this \nkind of experiment in my organic chemistry couurse in College but I \ncouldn't find a temperature for mineral ash formation so I'm really \nguessing at 600 degrees F, it may actually be much higher. The point is \nthat no one in their home could ever get a high enough temperature to \nproduce *only* a mineral ash. They also could not measure the minerals so \nthey could only weigh the ash and find out that you appear to be correct. \n\nChemical reactions abound in our body, in our atmosphere, in our water and \nin our soil. Are these fusion reactions? Yes many of them do involve \nfusing oxygen, nitrogen and sulfur to both organics and inorganics. Do we \nreally have the transformation of silicone to calcium if carbon is fused with \nsilicon? Not in my book Robert.\n\nSilicon is the most abundant mineral on our planet. I've seen speculation \nthat man could have evolved to be a silicon based rather than a carbon \nbased life-form. I like reading science fiction, as many people do. But I \nknow enough about biochemistry(and nutrition) to be able(in most cases) to \nseparate the fiction from the fact.\n\nSilicon may be one of the trace elements that turns out to be essential in \nhumans. We have several grams of the stuff in our body. What's it doing \nthere? Only the Lord knows right now. But I will tell you what I do know \nabout silicon and why, as you state, it helps bone healing(and it is not \nbecause silicon is transformed into calcium).\n\nAlmost all of the silicon in the human body is found in the connective \ntissue(collagen and elastin). There have been studies published which show \nthat the very high silicon content in elastin may be an important protective \nfactor against atherosclerosis(the higher the silicon content in elastin, \nthe more resistant the elastin is to a an age-related loss of elasticity \nwhich may play a role in the increase in blood pressure that is often seen as \npart of the ageing process in humans).\n\nFor bone fracture healing, the first step is a collagen matrix into which \ncalcium and phosphate are pumped by osteoblasts. A high level of silicon \nin the diet seems to speed up this matrix formation. This first step in the \nbone healing process seems to be the hardest for some people to get going.\nElectriacl currents have been used in an attempt to get the matrix forming \ncells oriented in the right direction so that the matrix can be formed in \nthe gap(or gaps) between the ends of the broken bone. A vitamin C deficiency\n(by slowing collagen formation as well as causing the prodcution of \ndefective collagen) does slow down both bone and wound healing. Zinc is also \nanother big player in bone and wound healing. And so is silicon(in an \nundetermined role that most likely involes matrix formation and not \ntransformation of silicon to calcium). For you to take this bone healing \nobservation and use it as proof that silicon is transformed into \ncalcium is an interesting little trick.\n\nBut Robert, I have the same problem myself when I read the lay press(and \nyes even some scientific papers). Is the explanation reasonable? Without \na very good science knowledge base, you and most readers of this news group \nare flying blind(you have to take it on faith because you don't know any \nbetter).\n\nIf the explanation seems to make sense to me based on my knowledge base, \nI'm inclined to consider it(this usually means trying to find other sources \nthat come to the same conclusion). If the idea(like a candida bloom) seems \nto make sense to me, I tend to pursue it as long as any advice that I'm \ngoing to give isn't going to really mess somebody up. If this makes us \nkindred souls Robert, then I guess I'll have to live with that label.\n\nFor the physicians who have decided to read my response to Robert's \ninteresting post, I hope that you saw the segment on the pediatric \nneurosurgeon last night on U.S. TV. I can't remember the network or his \nname(like many nights, I was on my computer and my wife was watching TV in \nour Den where I have my computer setup). This neurosurgeon takes kids with \nbrain tumors that everyone else has given up on and he uses\"unconventional\"\ntreatments(his own words). He says that he has a 70% success rate. The one \ncase that I heard him discussing would normally use radiation(conventional \ntreatment). He was going to go in and cut. You guys complain about the \ncost of the anti-fungals. What do you think the cost difference between \nradiation treatment and surgery is guys? \n\nI'm going to ask you guys one more time, why blast a physician who takes the \nchronic sinus sufferer(like Jon) and the chronic GI sufferer(like Elaine)\nand tries to help them using unconventional treatments? Treatments which \ndo not result in death(like those that the neurosurgeon uses?). Is it \nbecause candida blooms are not life-threatening while brain tumors are?\nHow about quality of life guys? May the candida demon never cross your \nsinus cavity or gut(if it does, you may feel differently about the issue).", "Thanks to aldridge@netcom.com, I now know a bit more about Stargardt's\ndisease, aka juvenile macular distrophy, but I would like to learn more.\n\nFirst, what is the general prognosis - is blindness the result?\nSecond, what treatments, if any, are available?\n\n", "Go to your public library and get the February, 1988 issue of Consumer\nReports. An article on allergy shots begins on page 96. This article\nis MUST reading for anyone contemplating allergy shots.\n", "\nAs a matter of fact, I just saw a dermatologist the other day, and while I \nwas there, I asked him about dry skin. I'd been spending a small fortune\non various creams, lotions, and other dry skin treatments.\nHe said all I needed was a large jar of vaseline. Soak in a lukewarm tub\nof water for 10 minutes (ONLY 10 minutes!) then massage in the vaseline,\nto trap the moisture in. That will help. I haven't tried it yet, but you\ncan bet I will. The hard part will be finding the time to rub in the\nvaseline properly. If it's not done right, you remain greasy and stick\nto your clothes.\nTry it. It's got to be cheaper then spending $30 for 8 oz. of 'natural'\nlotion.", "The Private Scietific & industrial firm \"Intercom 2000\" can\nsupply You with the transplantants that could be delivered according\nto Your order.\n\n Selection and preparation of the materials is carried out by the\nqualified personnel having 20-year experience in this sphere.\n\n We provide:\n\n - Immunological selection of tissues ( on the special request);\n\n - AIDS, Syphilis & other infection diseases tests;\n\n - bio-chemical tests.\n\n We guarantee deliverance of our products within temperature\nhabital providing their prime condition.\n\n O.Yarosha st. 39\n apart. 49\n Kharkov, Ukraine.", "\nNot to drag this out anymore, but....\n\nMany veterinarians feel that Lyme Disease in dogs is so easy to treat that\nin an endemic area, they often just give the appropriate antibiotics to dogs\npresenting with lameness, swollen joints, +/- fever.\n\nA recent paper (March 1993) has finally established that Lyme disease in dogs\ncan be reproduced in a controlled experimentaly setting. This has been\nan ellusive matter for researchers, and is one of the fundamental requirements\nfor many to acknowledge an agent as being causitive of a particular disease.\nUp to now, only the vaccine manufacturer has been able to \"prove\" that\nthe disease exists.\n\nThis paper is noteworthy in two other regards:\n\n1) None of the animals they infected were treated in any way. The dogs\nhad episodes of lameness during a 6-8 week period which occurred 2-5\nmonths after exposure. After this period, none showed any further\nclinical signs up to the 17 month observation period of the study. So\nthese are proven, clinically sick Lyme patients showing spontaneous\nrecovery without the benefit of drug treatment. Of course, observations\nlonger than 17 months will be necessary to be sure the disease doesn't\nhave the same chronicity that some see in humans.\n\n2) The addendum to the paper calls into question the techniques used by the\nvaccine manufacturer to validate the vaccine. Of course, they want\nthe world to use the model they developed in order to test vaccine\nefficacy.\n\nAnyway, maybe we will see some independent, scientifically sound evaluations\nof this vaccine in the next year or so.\n", "\nI was not discussing \"universal\" definitions in this post, Mark. Please\nrefrain from dragging in irrelevancies.\n\nDo you agree with my statement above about physicians being unqualified if\nthey can't determine viability?\n\n\nAnd that's good enough for the law, Mark. So why do you keep whining that\nviability \"isn't defined\"? What purpose does your whining serve?", "\nHate to wreck your elaborate theory, but Steve Dyer is not an MD.\nSo professional jealosy over doctors who help their patients with\nNystatin, etc., can't very well come into the picture. Steve\ndoesn't have any patients.\n\n\n\n\nYes, everyone who is normal does that. We use candida on the other arm\nwhen we put a tuberculin test on. If people don't react to candida,\nwe assume the TB test was not conclusive since such people may not\nreact to anything. All normal people have antibodies to candida.\nIf not, you would quickly turn into a fungus ball.\n\n\nYou've just discovered one of the requirements for a good quack theory.\nFind something that no one can *disprove* and then write a book saying\nit is the cause of whatever. Since no one can disprove it, you can\nrake in the bucks for quite some time. \n\n\nThat is odd, isn't it? Why do you suppose it is that MDs with these\ncommon problems don't go for these crazy ideas? Does the \"professional\njealosy\" extend to suffering in silence, even though they know they\ncould be cured if they just followed this quack book?\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "\n\n Too many MDs on the list and not enough RNs in my opinion.\n\n Doug\n", "\nOh, *really*???\n\n\nI know that when working in Alberta, Ontario and Quebec, I was aware\nthat I was paying for health insurance - e.g., in Toronto, OHIP fees\nwere listed seperately on my pay stub.\n\nWhile I'm not the only Canadian who favours lower taxes and cutbacks\nin spending, health insurance isn't on the table. See our polls ...\nA better one might be the July 1st polls conducted for Macleans (our\nmajor English newsmagazine) by Decima Research ... Decima president\nAllen Gregg is considered one of the world's top poll researchers,\nand Mulroney's Conservatives have relied on him to keep in power in\nthe face of impossible election situations. I haven't had a chance\nto see this year's version due to our library, but previous ones\nbefore the Americans started their assault and disinformation had\nshown satisfaction at 97% and switching to an American all-private\nsystem had support within statistical noise. The Decima polls are\nconsidered definitive. Even the new Reform Party, a breakoff of\ntraditionalists from the Conservatives with a mildly \"libertarian\"\nfaction, hold our public health insurance as an untouchable but that\njust a few people have to be reminded that it's not free (the average\nCanadian/European is more fiscally naive than their American\ncounterparts on issues like these).\n\nPersonally, I feel that the universal health insurance approach used\nin Canada, France and Germany -- paying to private health providers in\na nominally free market not unlike America's, minus HMO's -- depends a\nlot on values in those societies different from the U.S. The basic\nhealth needs for life are not viewed as market, but the insurance does\nallow the market to address that -- basic health care is not viewed on\nthe level of ownership of a VCR as Americans would see it. Plenty of\nroom is left for expenditure of private funds as extra insurance or as\n\n\nPlease explain this one, hopefully in a way that Canadian readers\nbesides myself can understand and concur ...\n\ngld", "JB> \nJB> Ron Roth recommends: \"Once you have your hypoglycemia CONFIRMED through the\nJB> proper channels, you might consider the following:...\"\nJB> [diet omitted]\nJB> \nJB> 1) Ron...what do YOU consider to be \"proper channels\"...this sounds suspiciously\n\n I'm glad it caught your eye. That's the purpose of this forum to\n educate those, eager to learn, about the facts of life. That phrase\n is used to bridle the frenzy of all the would-be respondents, who\n otherwise would feel being left out as the proper authorities to be\n consulted on that topic. In short, it means absolutely nothing.\n\nJB> like a blood chemistry...glucose tolerance and the like...suddenly chemistry\nJB> exists? You know perfectly well that this person can be saved needless trouble\nJB> and expense with simple muscle testing and hair analysis to diagnose...no\nJB> \"CONFIRM\" any aberrant physiology...but then again...maybe that's what you mean\"\n\n Muscle testing and hair analysis, eh? So what other fascinating \n space-age medical techniques do you use? Do you sit under a pyramid\n over night as well to shrink your brain back to normal after a mind-\n expanding day at your 'Save the Earth' clinic?\n\nJB> 2) Were you able to understand Dick King's post that \"90% of diseases is not thy\nJB> evaluate the statistic you cited from the New England Journal of Medicine. Coul?\n\n Once I figure out what *you* are trying to say, I'll still have \n to wrestle with the possibility of you conceivably not being able\n to understand my answer to your question?!\n\nJB> 3) Ron...have you ever thought about why you never post in misc.health.alterna-\nJB> tive...and insist instead upon insinuating your untrained, non-medical, often\nJB> delusional notions of health and disease into this forum? I suspect from your\nJB> apparent anger toward MDs and heteropathic medicine that there may be an\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ \n You little psychoanalytical rascal you! Got me all figured out, ja? \n \nJB> underlying 'father problem'...of course I can CONFIRM this by surrogate muscle\nJB> testing one of my patients while they ponder my theory to see if one of their\nJB> previously weak 'indicator' muscles strengthens...or do you have reservations\nJB> about my unique methods of diagnosis? [......]\nJB> \nJB> John Badanes, DC, CA\nJB> romdas@uclink.berkeley.edu\n\n Oh man, when are you going to start teaching all this stuff? I'll\n bet everyone on this net must be absolutely dying to learn more about \n going beyond spinal adjustments and head straight for the mind for\n some Freudian subluxation.\n\n --Ron--", "\n\nHmm. This is certainly among the things I would refer to as quack\ntherapy and would tend to refer to any practitioner who prescribed\nlaetrile (whether licensed or not) as a quack. There are unethical\nbehaviors (such as ordering unneccessary tests to increase fees)\nwhich I would not lable as quackish, but prescribing known ineffective\ntherapies seems to me to be one of the hallmarks of a quack.", "Dear news readers,\n\nIs there anyone using sheep models for cardiac research, specifically\nconcerned with arrhythmias, pacing or defibrillation? I would like\nto hear from you.\n\nMany thanks,\nAndrew Mears", "\n1: \"90% of diseases\" is not the same thing as \"90% of patients\".\n\n In a world with one curable disease that strikes 100 people, and nine\n incurable diseases which strikes one person each, medical science will cure\n 91% of the patients and report that 90% of diseases have no therapy.\n\n2: A disease would be counted among the 90% untreatable if nothing better than\n a placebo were known. Of course MDs are ethically bound to not knowingly\n dispense placebos...", "\nIt would if malpractice and \"defensive medicine\" were the main\nfactors in explaining spiralling US health care costs, but they aren't.\n\nAlthough Gary is correct in noting that malpractice-related problems are\ngreater in the US than Canada, they by no means account for the overall\ndifference in health care costs. (They do account for a somewhat larger\nportion of the difference in physicians' gross income in the two countries.)\n\nSome facts. Malpractice insurance and awards account for less than 1% of\ntotal health care costs in the US. In 1991, according to a survey of \nphysicians conducted by a national medical journal physicians averaged\npaying 3.7% of their practice receipts in malpractice insurance. \nMalpractice insurance premiums and malpractice awards peaked in 1985;\nthey've declined significantly since then. At the same time, health\ncare costs have increased more than any period in history.\n\nAs far as \"defensive medicine\" is concerned, the AMA estimates that its\ntotal impact is about $7 billion per year. That's about 8% of the total\ncurrent INCREASE in health care costs -- and the estimate is from a group\nthat could be expected to overestimate the impacts of defensive medicine\non health care.\n\nAs small a problem as this is in the overall scheme of things, however,\nClinton has been on record for a long time favoring an indemnification\nof MD's against malpractice suits if they follow procedures set by their\nspecialties. This would eliminate most, if not all frivolous suits\nwhile retaining the ability to sue for true malpractice.\n\njsh", "\n: Does anyone know about these studies? Or have experience with feverfew?\n\nI keep an accurate log of my migraine attack frequency; feverfew didn't\nseem to do anything for me. However, eliminating caffeine seems to pre-\nvent the onset of migraine in my case. In other words, no caffeine, no \nmigraines.", "\nI've heard of NO studies, but speculation:\n\nWhy on _earth_ would there be any effect on women's health? That's about \nthe most absurd idea I've heard since Ted Kaldis's claim that no more than \n35,000 people would march on Washington.\n\nOk, _one_ point: Greatly reduced chance of pregnancy. But that's it.", "\ni also noticed this was out. the readme that comes with it\ndoesn't tell you squat, except to warn you that bad things may\nhappen. anyone have any idea what these can do for me in terms \nof, say, performance ?", "\nThere is eye dominance same as handedness (and usually for the\nsame side). It has nothing to do with refractive error, however.\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "\n\nWhile I don't have an answer for you, I reckon Blaise Pascal is generally\ncredited with inventing the syringe per se. I don't know much about the\nneedles; however, I do know of a southwest Virginia country doctor who\nsome thrity or more years ago invented, patented, used, and sold a syringe/\nhypodermic needle combination that retracted, injected with the flip of a\ntrigger, then retracted, giving a near-painless injection. The fellow was\nDr. Daniel Gabriel, and it was termed the Gabriel--somebody else syringe. \nDid you come across that one. (Plastic, disposable syringes came onto the\nmarket about that time and his product went by the wayside, to my knowledge.)\n\n\n", "\n\n\n\nAs I recall, it is a statistical anomaly because of the sample involved in the studies.\nI am certain that if it were true the Europeans would be cutting kids right & left.\n\n\n\nI think alot do it blindly because \"Dad\" had it done. But there are many\nwho get bamboozled into it with the bogus cancer thing. Awhile back some\nquack told a friend of mine that it would help prevent AIDS.\n\nYeah...Right! (Sarchasm)\n\n\nOh YEAH ?\n\nScene: Navy boot camp\n\nDI:\t\t\"Son, you smel awful! Dont you ever clean that thing?\"\nRecruit:\t\"No Sir !\"\nDI:\t\t\"Why the hell NOT!\"\nRecruit:\t\"Your not sposed to touch down there?\"\nDI:\t\t\"Why ?\"\nRecruit:\t\"Cause thats the eye of god down there, an' your not s'posed to touch it...\"\n\nThis did not happen 40 years ago, it happened 2 years ago.", "\n\nBe sure to say \"chronic\" dizziness, not just dizziness. Most\npatients with acute or subacute dizziness will get better.\nThe vertiginous spells of Meniere's will also eventually go\naway, however, the patient is left with a deaf ear.\n\n\n\nThis may have helped you, but I'm not sure it is good general\nadvice. The odds that you are going to find some miracle with\nyour own research that is secret or hidden from general knowledge\nfor this or any other disease are slim. When good answers to these\nproblems are found, it is usually in all the newspapers. Until\nthen, spending a great deal of time and energy on the medical\nproblem may divert that energy from more productive things\nin life. A limited amount should be spent to assure yourself\nthat your doctor gave you the correct story, but after it becomes\nclear that you are dealing with a problem for which medicine\nhas no good solution, perhaps the best strategy is to join\nthe support group and keep abreast of new findings but not to\nmake a career out of it.\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "\nThe private insurance industry skims the cream off the milk...simple.", "\n\nThe funny thing is the personaly stories about reactions to MSG vary so\ngreatly. Some said that their heart beat speeded up with flush face. Some\nclaim their heart \"skipped\" beats once in a while. Some reacted with\nheadache, some stomach ache. Some had watery eyes or running nose, some\nhad itchy skin or rashes. More serious accusations include respiration \ndifficulty and brain damage. \n\nNow here is a new one: vomiting. My guess is that MSG becomes the number one\nsuspect of any problem. In this case. it might be just food poisoning. But\nif you heard things about MSG, you may think it must be it.", "\nI saw a printed up flyer that stated the person was a\n\"licensed herbologist and iridologist\"\nWhat are your opinions?\nHow much can you tell about a person's health by looking into their eyes?\n", "\nWe use them as Christmas tree decorations, the cat doesn't eat these.\n\n-- ", "\n\nIts bogus. See the sci.skeptic FAQ (I edit it).\n\nYou can diagnose some things by looking at the eyes. Glaucoma is the\nClassic Example, but there are probably others.\n\nIridology maps parts of the body onto the irises of the eyes. By\nlooking at the patterns, striations and occasional blobs in the irises\nyou are supposed to be able to diagnose illnesses all over the body.\n\nThe two questions to ask any alternative therapist are:\n\n1: How does it work?\n\n2: What evidence is there?\n\nThe answer to question 1 takes a little knowledge of medicine to\nevaluate. I don't know about iridology, but I've read a book on\nreflexology, which is a remarkably similar notion except that the\norgans of the body are mapped onto the soles of the feet. There are\nsupposed to be channels running down the body carrying information or\nenergy of some sort. Anatomists have found no such structures.\n(Always beware the words \"channel\" and \"energy\" in any spiel put out\nby an alternative practitioner.)\n\nThe answer to question 2 is rather simpler. If all they have is\nanecdotal evidence then forget it. Ask for referreed papers in\nmainstream medical journals. Ignore any bull about the conspiracy of\nrich doctors suppressing alternative practitioners. Studies are done\nand papers are published. Some of them are even positive.\n\nThe word \"licensed\" in the flyer is an interesting one. Licensed by\nwhom? For what? It is quite possible that the herbology is real and\nrequires a license: you can kill someone by giving them the wrong\nplants to eat, and many plants contain very powerful drugs (Foxglove\nand Willow spring to mind). It is not clear whether the license\nextends to the iridology, and I suspect that if you ask you will be\ntold that it means \"(Licensed herbologist) and iridologist\".\n\nBTW, the usual term is \"herbalist\". Why use a different word?\n", "\nAs mentioned in Adiposity 101, only some experience weight\nrebound. The fact that you don't doesn't prove it doesn't\nhappen to others.", "\n\nDo YOU eat all your food cold?\n-- ", "hi all, i got several emails and a couple news replies and i guess i\nshoulda went into more detail... Being my anxiety level is peaking and you\nfolks have no clue who I am I may as well post the specifics and see what\nyou people think regarding my previous post.\nTo recap i applied to 20 schools total, 16 of which were MD and 4 DO.\n\nas it stands now i have had 13 rejects, 4 interviews( 2 MD and 2 DO), the\nresults of which are 2 waiting lists (1 MD and one DO)\n\n3 schools i heard nothing from at all.\n\nI have contacted all institutions other than the rejects and they have no\ninfo whatsoever to tell me.\n\nI have taken a good mix to apply to.. 2-3 top schools a bunch of middles\nand a few \"safety\" (funny that most of my safety schools were the first\nto reject me)\n\nmy index is at like a 3.5 mcats were R7 P9 B10 WQ and R7 P9 B11 WR\nI couldnt get the damn reading score up... i never stuff like art\nhistory, politics etc \n\nIve done medical research at the undergrad level, done clinical lab work\nfor years now, but unfortunately i have no patient contact experience.\n\nI cant think of what else i left out... but thats the summary. What\npercent of people are usually called from the waiting lists on an average?\nI felt that my interviews went quite well yet i dont have a firm\nacceptance in my hand... anyone have any suggestions as to calm the\nmailbox anxiety? \n\nIf you premeds out there or med students have any questions or comments\nfor me feel free to send them down... Typing is a form of anti-anxiety\nthereapy hehehehe :)\n\n", "Hello,\n\nI am planning on attending Podiatry School next year.\n\nI have narrowed my choices to the Pennsylvania College of Podiatric\nMedicine, in Philadelphia, or the California College of Podiatric\nMedicine in San Francisco. \n\nIf anyone has any information or oppinions about these two schools, please\ntell me. I am having a hard time deciding which one to attend, and must\nmake a decision very soon. \n\nthank you, Larry\n\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\nLive From New York, It's SATURDAY NIGHT...", "Having had limited tinea pedis for more than 30 years, and finding\nit resistant to ALL creams and powders I have tried, I wonder why\ndermatologists do not use lasers to destroy the fungus. It would\nseem likely to be effective and inexpensive. Are there good reasons\nfor not using lasers?\nI was told that dermatology had not yet reached the laser age.\n\nJohn McKay\nvax2.concordia.ca\n", "\nMy opinion(for what it's worth) is that 40 x-rays is *way* too many. \nGuidleines have been set on the number of dental x-rays and chest x-rays \nthat one should have over a given period of time because of all the \nenvironmental factors that can cause cancer in humans, ionizing radiation \nis one of the most potent(splits DNA and causes hydroxyl free radical \nformation in tissue cells). Ultasound(like that used in seeing the fetus \nin the uterus) has been shown to be extremely good at picking up tumors \nin the prostate and gallstones in the gallbladder. But kidney tissue may \nbe too dense for ultrasound to work for kidney stones(any radiologists care \nto comment?).\n\nMost stones will pass(but it's a very painful process). Unlike gallstones, \nI don't think that there are many drugs that can help \"dissolve\" the \nkidney stone(which is probably calcium-oxalate). Vitamin C and magnesium \nhave worked in rabbits to remove calcium from calcified plaques in the \naterial wall. I have no idea if a diet change or supplementation could \nspeed up the process of kidney stone passage(but I'm pretty confident that \na diet change and/or supplementation can prevent a reoccurance). If surgery \nis being contemplated, the stone must be in the kidney tubule. A second \nopinion is a good idea because there are better(less damaging) ways to break \nup the stone if it's logged within the kidney(sonic blasts). HMO's are \nnotorious for conservative care and long waits for expensvie treatments. \nMy condolences to your friend. ", "\n\nThe magnets are huge! Good MRI sets with big (>1.5 Tesla) magnets\ncost millions of dollars. Then, the radiologist wants $400 for\nreading each scan.\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", ":All right, listen up.... What are the possibilities of transmission through\n:swimming pool water? Especially if the chlorination isn't up to par?\n:\n:I've heard of community swimming pools refered to as PUBLIC URINALS so what\n:else is going on?\n\nNo dice. As soon as the sperm cells hit the water they would virtually\nexplode. The inside of the cell is hypertonic, and since the membrane is\nsemipermeable water would rush in and cause the cell to burst.\n", "A friend, a 62 year old man, has calcium deposits on one of his\nheart valves . What causes this to happen and what can be done about\nit?", "\nYeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't threaten to rip your lips off, did I?\nSnort.\n\n\nDuh.\n\n\nListen: thrush is a recognized clinical syndrome with definite\ncharacteristics. If you have thrush, you have thrush, because you can\nsee the lesions and do a culture and when you treat it, it generally\nresponds well, if you're not otherwise immunocompromised. Noring's\nanal-retentive idee fixe on having a fungal infection in his sinuses\nis not even in the same category here, nor are these walking neurasthenics\nwho are convinced they have \"candida\" from reading a quack book.\n\n\nSo?\n", ": \n: How about contaminants on the corn, e.g. aflatoxin???\n: \nLittle alflatoxin on commercial cereal products and certainly wouldn't\ncause seizures.\n", "Ideas for the relief of sciatica. Please respond to my E-mail\n", ": >\n: >: From a business point of view, it might make sense. It depends on\n: >: the personality of the practitioner. If he can charm the patients\n: >: into coming, homeopathy can be very profitable. It won't be covered\n: >: by insurance, however. Just keep that in mind. Myself, I'd have \n: >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n: >\n: >In many European countries Homepathy is accepted as a method of curing\n: >(or at least alleiating) many conditions to which modern medicine has \n: >no answer. In most of these countries insurance pays for the \n: >treatments.\n: >\n\n: Accepted by whom? Not by scientists. There are people\n: in every country who waste time and money on quackery.\n: In Britain and Scandanavia, where I have worked, it was not paid for.\n: What are \"most of these countries?\" I don't believe you.\n\nIn Holland insurences pay for Homeopathic treatment. In Germany they do\nso as well. I Austria they do if you have a condition which can not be \nhelped by \"normal\" medicine (happened to me). Switzerland seems to be \nthe same as Austria (I have direct experience in the Swiss case).\n\nAt the Univeristy of Vienna (I believe Innsbruck as well) homeopathy\ncan be taken in Med. school.\n\nI found that in combination with Acupuncture it changed my life from\nliving hell to a condition which enables me to lead a relatively \nnormal life. I found that modern medicine was powerless to cure me\nof a *severe* case of Neurodermitis (Note: I mean cure, not \nsurpress the symptoms, which is what modern medicine attempts to \ndo in the case of Neurodermitis). \n\nI'm not saying that Homeopathy is scientific, but that it can offer \nhelp in areas in which modern medicine is absolutely helpless.\n\nFrom reading your aritcle it seems that your have some deeply rooted\nbeliefs about this issue (this is not intended to be offensive or \nsarcastic - it just sounded like that to me) which makes me doubt \nif you can read this with an open mind. If you do/can, please excuse\nmy last comment.", "If one is a vegan (a vegetarian taht eats no animal products at at i.e eggs, \nmilk, cheese, etc., after about 3 years of a vegan diet, you need to start \ntaking B12 supplements because b12 is found only in animals.) Acutally our \nbodies make B12, I think, but our bodies use up our own B12 after 2 or 3 \nyears. \nLacto-oveo vegetarians, like myself, still get B12 through milk products \nand eggs, so we don't need supplements.\nAnd If anyone knows more, PLEASE post it. I'm nearly contridicting myself \nwith the mish-mash of knowledge I've gleaned.", "\n\n\n\nIf these folks are who I think they are, Lyme-knowledgeable may\nmean a physician to whom everything that walks in the door is\nlyme disease, and you will be treated for lyme, whether or not\nyou have it. Hope you have good insurance.\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "This question came up in Sci. Med. Nutrition and I'm posting my answer \nhere. Only 22 medical schools in the U.S. teach courses on human \nnutrition. We have already seen what a lack of nutrition education can do \nwhen candida and kidney stones present themselves to the medical community.\nI think that the best example of where U.S. medicine is really missing the \nmark when it comes to a knowledge of nutrition is PMS. So many women(and \ntheir husbands) suffer from this disorder that it is really criminal that \nmost physicians in the U.S. are not taught that PMS is primarily caused by \ndiet and diet changes can prevent it from ever happpening. Before shooting \nyour flames, read the entire article and then decide if flaming is \njustified.\n\nFrom A Poster In Sci. Medi. Nutrition:\nside-tracked with candida. PMS is a lot like Candida blooms, most \nphysicians don't recognize it as a specific \"disease\" entity. Here is \neverything that you would ever want to know about PMS.\n\nPremenstrual syndrome has been divided into four specific subgroups:\n\n\tPMT-A(Anxiety)\t\tPMT-D(depression)\n\tanxiety\t\t\tdepression\n\tirritability\t\tforgetfulness\n\tinsomnia\t\tconfusion\n\tdepression\t\tlethargy\n\n\tPMT-C(Craving)\t\tPMT-H(Hyperhydration)\n\tcraving for sweets\tweight gain\n\tincreased appetite\tbreast congestion and tenderness\n\tsugar ingestion causes: abdominal bloating and tenderness\n\t 1. headache\t\tedema of the face and extremities\n\t 2. palpitations\n\t 3. fatigue or fainting\n \nPMT-A is characterized by elevated blood estrogen levels and low \nprogesterone levels during the luteal phase of a women's cycle.\n\nPMT-C is caused by the ingestion of large amounts of refined simple \ncarbohydrates. During the luteal phase of a women's cycle, there is \nincreased glucose tolerance with a flat glucose curve after oral glucose \nchallenge. The metabolic findings believed to be responsible for PMT-C are \na low magnesium and a low prostaglandin E1. This condition of hypoglycemia \nis not unique to PMS but there are a number of different causes of \nhypoglycemia, magnesium and PGE1 seem to be specific to PMS hypoglycemia.\n\tA. Am. J. Psychiatry 147(4):477-80(1990).\nUnrefined complex carbohydrate should be substituted for sugar, magnesium \nsupplementation and alpha linoleic acid supplementation(increased to 5-6% of \nthe total calories) using safflower oil or evening primrose oil as sources \nof alpha linoleic acid.\n\nPMT-D is characterized by elevated progesterone levels during the midluteal \nphase of a women's cycle. Another cause of PMT-D has been found to be lead \ntoxicity(in women without elevated progesterone levels during the midluteal \nphase). \"Effect of metal ions on the binding of estridol to human \nendometrial cystol\" Fertil. Steril. 28:312-18(1972).\n\nPMT-H is associated with water and salt retention along with an elevated \nserum aldosterone level. Salt restriction, B6, magnesium and vitamin E \nfor breast tenderness have all been effective in treating PMT-H\n\nThis general discussion of the PMS syndromes came form:\n\n\tA. \"Management of the premenstrual tension sundromes: Rational for \n\t a nutritional approach\". 1986, A Year in Nutritional Medicine. \n\t J. Bland, Ed. Keats, Publishing, 1986.\n\n\tB. \"Nutritional factors in the etiology of premenstrual tension \n\t syndromes\", J. Reprod. Med.28(7):446-64(1983).\n\n\tC. \"Premenstrual tension\", Prob. Obstet. Gynecol. 3(12):1-39(1980)\n\nTreatment has traditionally involved progesterone administration if you can \nfind a doctor who will treat you for PMS(just about as hard as finding one \nthat will treat you for candida blooms). While progesterone will work, \nsupplementation with vitamins and minerals works even better. There really \nhas been an awful lot of research done on PMS(much more than candida \nblooms). Many of these studies have been what are called experimental \ncontrolled studies(the type of rigorous clinical studies that doctors like to \nsee done).\n\nHere are a few of these studies:\n\n\tCARBOHYDRATE: Experimental Controlled Study, \"Effect of a low-fat, \n\thigh-carbohydrate diet on symptoms of cyclical mastopathy\" Lancet \n\t2:128-32(1988). 21 pts with severe persistent cyclical mastopathy \n\tof at least 5 years duration were randomly selected to receive \n\tspecific training to reduce dietary fat to 15% of total calories \n\tand increase complex carbohydrate ingestion or given general dietary \n\tadvise with no training. After 6 months, there was a significant \n\treduction in the severity of the breast swelling and tenderness in \n\tthe trained group as reported by self-reported symptoms as well as \n\tphysical exams which quantitated the degree of breast swelling, \n\ttenderness and nodularity.\n\n\tVITAMIN A: Experimental Controlled Study, \"The use of Vitamin A in \n\tpremenstrual tension\" Acta Obstet. Gynecol Scand. 39:586-92(1960). \n\t218 pts with severe recurring PMS received 200,000 to 300,000IU \n\tvitamin A daily or a placebo. Serum retinol levels were monitored \n\tand high dose supplementation was discontinued when evidence of \n\ttoxicity occured(serum retinol above 450ug/ml). The intent of the \n\tstudy was to load the liver up with vitamin A and get a normal pool \n\tsize(500,000IU to 1,000,000IU) and then see if this \n\tnormal vitamin A pool could prevent PMS. 48% getting the high dose \n\tvitamin A had complete remission of the symptoms of PMS. Only 10% \n\tgetting the placebo reported getting complete relief of PMS sysmptoms.\n \t10% of the vitamin A treated group reported no improvement in PMS \n\tsymptoms.\n\n\tExperimental Controlled Study, \"Premenstrual tension treated with \n\tvitamin A\" J. Clinical Endocrinology 10:1579-89(1950). 30 pts \n\treceived 200,000IU of vitamin A daily starting on day 15 of their \n\tcycle with supplementation continuing until the onset of PMS symptoms.\n \tAfter 2-6 months, all 30 pts reported a significant improvement in \n\tPMS symptoms. Vitamin A supplementation was stopped once evidence of \n\ttoxicity was demonstrated and all 30 pts were followed for one year \n\tafter high dose vitamin A supplementation was stopped. PMS symptoms \n\tdid not reoccur in any of these 30 pts for upto one year after the \n\tvitamin A supplementation was stopped.\n\nMost Americans do not have a normal store of vitamin A in their liver. \nThese studies and several others were designed to see if getting a normal \nstore of vitamin A into the liver could eliminate PMS. Of all the vitamins \ngiven for PMS(vitamin A, B6, and vitamin E), vitamin A has shown the best \nsingle effect. This is probably because vitamin A is involved in steroid \n(estrogen/progesterone) metabolism in the liver. Getting your liver full \nof vitamin A seems to be one of the best things that you can do to prevent \nthe symptoms of PMS. But vitamin A is toxic and you don't want to be trying \nto do this without being seen by a physician who can monitor you for vitamin \nA toxicity.\n\n\tVITAMIN B6: Experimental Double-blind Crossoverr Study, \"Pyridoxine\n\t(vitamin B6) and the premenstrual syndrome: A randomized crossover \n\ttrial\"J.R. Coll. Gen. Pract. 39:364-68(1989). 32 women aged 18-49 \n\twith moderate to severe PMS randomly received 50mg B6 daily or placebo.\n \tAfter 3 months the groups were switched and followed for another \n\t3 months. B6 had a significant effect on the emotional aspects of \n\tPMS(depression, irritability and tiredness). Other symptoms of PMS \n\twere not significanttly affected by B6 supplementation.\n\n\tExperimental Double-blind Study, \"The efects of vitamin B6 \n\tsupplementation on premenstrual sysmptoms\" Obstet. Gynecol \n\t70(2):145-49(1987). 55 pts with moderate to severe PMS received \n\t150mg B6 daily or placebo for 2 months. Analysis of convergence \n\tshowed that B6 significantly improved premenstrual symptoms related \n\tto the autonomic nervous system(dizziness and vomiting) as well as \n\tbehavior changes(poor mental performance, decreased social interaction)\n \tAnxiety, depression and water retention were not improved by B6 \n\tsupplementation.\n\nVitamin B6 is below the RDA for both American men and women. Birth control \npills and over 40 different drugs increase the B6 requirement in man. \nWomen on birth control pills should be supplemented with 10-15 mg of B6 per \nday. The dose should be increased if symptoms of PMS appear. Dr. David R. \nRubinow who heads the biological psychiatry branch of NIMH was quoted in \nClin. Psychiatry News, December, 1987 as stating that B6 should be \nconsidered the \"first-line\" drug for PMS(over progesterone) and if the \npatient does not respond, then other treatments should be tried. Vitamin \nB6 can be toxic(nerve damage) if consumed in doses of 500mg or more each \nday. \n\n\n\tVITAMIN E: Experimental Double-blind Study, \"Efficacy of alpha-\n\ttocopherol in the treatment of premenstrual syndrome\" J. Reprod. \n\tMed. 32(6):400-04(1987). 35 pts received 400IU vitamin E daily for 3 \n\tcycles or a placebo. Vitamin E treated pts had 33% who reported a \n\tsignificant reduction in physical symptoms(weight gain and breast \n\ttenderness) while the placebo group had 14% who reported a significant\n \treduction in physical symptoms. The vitamin E group reported that 38% \n\thad a significant reduction in anxiety versus 12% for the placebo \n\tgroup. For depression, the vitamin E group had 27% with a significant\n\tdecrease in depression compared with 8% for the placebo group.\n\n\tExperimental Double-blind Study, \"The effect of alpha-tocopherol on \n\tpremenstrual symptomalogy: A double blind study\" J. Am. Coll. Nutr. \n\t2(2):115-122(1983). 75pts with benign breast disease and PMT randomly \n\treceived vitamin E at 75IU, 150IU, or 300IU daily or placebo. After \n\t2 months of supplementation, 150IU of vitamin E or higher significantly \n\timproved PMT-A and PMT-C. The 300IU dose was needed to significantly \n\timprove PMT-D. No dose of vitamin E significantly improved PMT-H\n\t(other studies have shown that a higher vitamin E doses will relieve \n\tPMT-H symptoms).\n\t\n\tMAGNESIUM: Experimental Double-blind Study, \"Magnesium prophylaxis \n\tof menstrual migraine: effects on itracellular magnesium\" Headache \n\t31:298-304(1991). 20 pts with perimenstrual headache received 360 mg \n\tdaily of magnesium as magnesium pyrrolidone carboxylic acid or a \n\tplacebo. Treatment was started on the 15th day of the cycle and \n\tcontinued until menstruation. After 2 months, the Pain Total Index \n\twas significantly lower in the magnesium group. Magnesium treatment \n\twas also assocoiated with a significant reduction in the Menstrual \n\tDistress Questionnaire scores. Pretreatment magnesium levels in \n\tlymphocytes and polymorphonuclear leukocytes were significantly lower \n\tin this group of 20 pts compared to control women who did not suffer \n\tfrom PMS. After treatment, magnesium levels in these cells was raised \n\tinto the normal range.\n\n\tExperimental Double-blind Study, \"Oral Magnesium successfully \n\trelieves premenstrual mood changes\" Obstet. Gynecol 78(2):177-81(1991). \n\t32pts aged 24-39 randomly received either magnesium carboxylic acid \n\t360mg of Mg per day or a placebo from the 15th day of the cycle to the \n\tonset of the menstrual flow. After 2 cycles, both groups received \n\tmagnesium. The Menstrual Distress Questionnaire score of the cluster \n\tpain was significantly reduced during the second cycle(month) for the \n\tmagnesium treatment group as well as the placebo group once they were \n\tswitched to magnesium supplementation. In addition, the total score on \n\tthe Menstrual Distress Questionnaire was significantly decreased by \n\tmagnesium supplementation. The authors suggest that magnesium \n\tsupplemenation should become a routine treatment for the mood changes \n\tthat occur during PMS.\n\nThere are numerous observational studies that have been published in the \nmedical literature which also suggest that PMS is primarily a disorder \nthat arises out of a hormone imbalance that is dietary in nature. But \nsince observational studies are considered by most physicians in Sci. Med. \nto be anecdotal in nature, I have not bothered to cite them. There are \nalso over a half dozen good experimental studies that have been done on \nmultivitamin and mineral supplementation to prevent PMS. I've chosen the \nbest specific studies on individual vitamins and minerals to try to point out \nthat PMS is primarily a nutritional disorder. But doctors don't recognize \nnutritional disorders unless they can see clinical pathology(beri-beri, \npellagra, scruvy, etc.). PMS is probably the best reason why every doctor \nbeing trained in the U.S. should get a good course on human nutrition. PMS \nis really only the tip if the iceberg when it comes to nutritional \ndisorders. It's time that medicine woke up and smelled the roses.\n\nHere's some studies which show the importance in multivitamin/mineral \nsupplementation and/or diet change in preventing PMS.\n\n\tExperimental Study, \"Effect of a nutritional programme on \n\tpremenstrual syndrome: a retrospective analysis\", Complement. Med. \n\tRes.5(1):8-11(1991). 200pts were given dietary instructions and \n\tsupplemented with Optivite(R) plus additional vitamin C, vitamin E, \n\tmagnesium, zinc and primrose oil. The dietary instructions were to \n\ttake the supplements and switch to a low fat, complex carbohydrate \n\tdiet. On a retrospective analysis, 96.5% of the 200pts reported an \n\timprovement in their PMS symptoms with 30% of the sample stating that \n\tthey no longer suffered from PMS. \n\n\n\tExperimental Double-blind Study, \"Role of Nutrition in managing \n\tpremenstrual tension syndromes\", J Reprod. Med. 32(6):405-22(1987). \n\tA low fat, high complex carbohydrate diet along with Optivite \n\tsupplementation significantly decreased PMS scores compared with diet \n\tchange and placebo. After 6 months on the experimental program, the \n\tvitamin/mineral supplementated group had significantly decreased \n\testradiol and increased progesterone in serum during the midlutel \n\tphase of their cycle.\n\n\tExperimental Double-blind Study, \"Clinical and biochemical effects \n\tof nutritional supplementation on the premenstrual syndrome\", J. \n\tReprod. Med. 32(6):435-41(1987). 119pts randomly given Optivite(12 \n\ttablets per day) or a placebo. The treated groups showed a \n\tsignificant decrease in PMS symptoms compared to the placebo. Another\n \tgroup of 104pts got Optivite(4 tablets per day) or placebo. For this \n\tsecond group of patients, no significant effect of supplementation on \n\tPMS symptoms was observed.\n\nMartin Banschbach, Ph.D.\nProfessor of Biochemistry and Chairman\nDepartment of Biochemistry and Microbiology\nOSU College of Osteopathic Medicine\n1111 W. 17th St.\nTulsa, Ok 74107", "A friend of mine is seeing an acupuncturist and\nwants to know if there is any danger of getting\nAIDS from the needles.\n\nThanks,", "\nTerrance,\n\n There is a good article entitled: \"A long-term in vivo bone strain\nmeasurement device,\" Journal of Investigative Surgery 1989; 2(2): 195-206\nby Szivek JA & Magee FP.\n I think you can find some others by searching MedLine.", "es:\n.C\n\nExcuse me for sticking my nose in, but any parent/parents who do not allready \nimmunize their children (especially if it is already free), don't deserve one \nfrigging dime of tax money for health care for themselves, or public health \ncare service.\n\n(I know the immunization program and the coming national health care issue are \nslightly seperate issues, but anybody who wouldn't help their kids, don't \ndeserve my tax help).", "Can anyone help me find any information on the drug Prozac? I am writing\na report on the inventors , Eli Lilly and Co., and the product. I need as\nmuch help as I can get. Thanks a lot, Adriana Gilmete.\n", "Does anyone here know anything about chelation therapy using EDTA? My\nuncle has emphesema, and a doctor wants to try it on him. We are\nwondering if:\n\n1. Is there any evidence EDTA chelation therapy is beneficial for his\ncondition, or any condition?\n\n2. What possible side effects are there. How can they be mimimized?\n\nPlease respond via e-mail to rme1@cornell.edu", "Unfortonately, that truly is about the best summation of the research\nthat there is. Advantages stated of circumcison included probably\nprevention of penile cancer, (which, interestingly, occurs mostly in men\nwhose personal hygiene is exceptionally poor), simplicity of personal\nhygiene, prevention of urinary tract infections, and prevention of\na unretractible foreskin, Disadvantages include infection from the \nprocedure, pain, etc. I apologize; I am trying to pull this off\nthe top of my head. I will post what I discovered in research; I did\na paper on the topic in my research class in Nursing school.\nIt really is a decision that is up to the parents. Some parents use\nthe reasoning that they will \"look like Daddy\" and like their friends\nas justification. There is nothing wrong with this; just be sure it is\nwhat you want to do, since it is rather difficult to uncircumcise\na male, although a major surgical procedure exists.\n\nAs long as your membranes have not broken and you have not had any\nproblems with your pregnancy, it should be OK to sit in a tub of water.\nHOWEVER, I WOULD RECOMMEND USING YOUR OWN BATHTUB IN YOUR OWN HOME!\nIt is nearly impossible to guarantee the cleanliness and safety of \"public\"\nhot tubs. A nice warm bath can be very relaxing, especially if your back\nis killing you! And it would possibly be advisable to avoid bubble bath\nsoap , esp. if you are prone to yeast infection.\n\nHope these tips help you some.", "Could someone tell me what the density of skull bone is or direct me to \na reference that contains this info? I would appreciate it very much.\nThanks.\n\nVinay\n\n", "A friend of mine is having some symptoms and has asked me to post\nthe following information.\n\nA few weeks ago, she noticed that some of her hair was starting\nto fall out. She would touch her head and strands of hair would\njust fall right out. (by the way, she is 29 or 30 years old). \nIt continued to occur until she had a bald spot about the\nsize of a half dollar. Since that time, she has gotten two\nmore bald spots of the same size. Other symptoms she's\ndescribed include: several months of an irregular menstrual\ncycle (which is strange for her, because she has always been\nextremely regular); laryngitis every few days -- she will wake\nup one morning and have almost no voice, and then the next day\nit's fine; dizzy spells -- she claims that she's had 4 or 5\nvery bad dizzy spells early in the morning, including one that\nknocked her to the ground; and general fatigue.\n\nShe went to a dermatologist first who couldn't find any reason\nfor the symptoms and sent her to an internist who suspected\nthyroid problems. He did the blood work and claims that everything\ncame back normal. \n\nShe's very concerned and very confused. Does anyone have any\nideas or suggestions? I told her that I thought she should\nsee an endocrinologist. Does that sound like the right idea?\n\n** By the way, in case you are going to ask...no, she has recently\ntaken any medications that would cause these symptoms...no, she hasn't\nrecently changed her hair products and she hasn't gotten a perm, \ncoloring, or other chemical process that might cause hair to fall\nout.", "For several years I have been dealing with reccurring corneal erosion. There\ndoes not seem to be much known about the cause of such a problem. My current\nepisode is pretty bad since it is located in the middle of the cornea. If it's\nbad enough, the usual treatment for it is puncture therapy. However, my doctor\nthis time is trying to let it heal by itself by putting a contact lens to\nprotect the area. Apparently the problem is not that common, but I'd be curious\nif anyone else out there has a similar problem, perhaps to see if a cause can be\nfound. ", "I remember hearing a few years back about a new therapy for hyperactivity\nwhich involved aggressively eliminating artificial coloring and flavoring\nfrom the diet. The theory -- which was backed up by interesting anecdotal\nresults -- is that certain people are just way more sensitive to these\nchemicals than other people. I don't remember any connection being made\nwith seizures, but it certainly couldn't hurt to try an all-natural diet.\n", "Dear Sirs!\nCommercial firm of Lithuania \"POLIUS\" is interested for\nnew partners and establishing business contacts.\nAt present we may offer to You the following\n\n We have HUMAN ALPHA-FETOPROTHEIN in liquit or leofil dried state\n with purity not less than 96,6. Price 980$ per 1 mg. Every month deliveries\n in quantity 50...100 mg.\n\n\nFor more information please contact:\nE-mail internet: viktor@olesov.aiva.lt\nFax (3702) 223 537\nPhone (3702) 757 533\n", "BIOLOGICAL ALCHEMY\n \n ( ANOTHER Form of COLD FUSION )\n\n ( ALTERNATIVE Heavy Element Creation in Universe ) \n\n A very simple experiment can demonstrate (PROVE) the \n FACT of \"BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS\" (reactions like Mg + O \n --> Ca, Si + C --> Ca, K + H --> Ca, N2 --> CO, etc.), as \n described in the BOOK \"Biological Transmutations\" by Louis \n Kervran, [1972 Edition is BEST.], and in Chapter 17 of the \n book \"THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS\" by Peter Tompkins and \n Christopher Bird, 1973: \n\n (1) Obtain a good sample of plant seeds, all of the same \n kind. [Some kinds might work better that others.]\n\n (2) Divide the sample into two groups of equal weight \n and number.\n\n (3) Sprout one group in distilled water on filter paper \n for three or four weeks.\n\n (4) Separately incinerate both groups.\n\n (5) Weigh the residue from each group. [The residue of \n the sprouted group will usually weigh at least \n SEVERAL PERCENT MORE than the other group.]\n\n (6) Analyze quantitatively the residue of each group for \n mineral content. [Some of the mineral atoms of the \n sprouted group have been TRANSMUTED into heavier \n mineral elements by FUSING with atoms of oxygen, \n hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, etc..]\n\n \n BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS occur ROUTINELY, even in our \n own bodies. \n \n Ingesting a source of organic silicon (silicon with \n carbon, such as \"horsetail\" extract, or radishes) can SPEED \n HEALING OF BROKEN BONES via the reaction Si + C --> Ca, (much \n faster than by merely ingesting the calcium directly). \n \n Some MINERAL DEPOSITS in the ground are formed by micro-\n organisms FUSING together atoms of silicon, carbon, nitrogen, \n oxygen, hydrogen, etc.. \n \n The two reactions Si + C <--> Ca, by micro-organisms, \n cause \"STONE SICKNESS\" in statues, building bricks, etc.. \n \n The reaction N2 --> CO, catalysed by very hot iron, \n creates a CARBON-MONOXIDE POISON HAZARD for welder operators \n and people near woodstoves (even properly sealed ones). \n \n Some bacteria can even NEUTRALIZE RADIOACTIVITY! \n \n\n ALL OF THESE THINGS AND MORE HAPPEN, IN SPITE OF the \n currently accepted \"laws\" of physics, (including the law \n which says that atomic fusion requires EXTREMELY HIGH \n temperatures and pressures.) \n\n\n\n \"BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS, And Their Applications In \n CHEMISTRY, PHYSICS, BIOLOGY, ECOLOGY, MEDICINE, \n NUTRITION, AGRIGULTURE, GEOLOGY\", \n 1st Edition, \n by C. Louis Kervran, Active Member of New York Academy of \n Science, \n 1972, \n 163 Pages, Illustrated, \n Swan House Publishing Co.,\n P.O. Box 638, \n Binghamton, NY 13902 \n\n \n \"THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS\", \n by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird, \n 1973, \n 402 Pages, \n Harper & Row, \n New York\n [Chapters 19 and 20 are about \"RADIONICS\". Entire book is \n FASCINATING! ]\n \n\n For more information, answers to your questions, etc., \n please consult my CITED SOURCES (the two books). \n\n\n\n UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this \n IMPORTANT Information is ENCOURAGED. \n", "\nIt is evident you did not read my post carefully. I wasn't\ntrying to tell you not to eat MSG products and produce, nor was I\narguing for or against MSG. I was simply questioning the logic of\nyour statement that simply because\n(a) one is not allergic to something, and\n(b) likes eating that\nit follows that one could keep eating whatever it is. \nIn my post, I had clearly said that I don't know enough about MSG.\nThe statement \"don't eat X because its bad\" is just _your_ \ninterpretation of nutritional info out there.", "\nWhen you buy insurance where you live, it is based on the local rates.\nTourists coming from, say, Utah will find that there is a difference\nin what their insurance will cover FOB Provo and what they get stuck\nwith at Lenox Hill or Mount Sinai if they fall ill in the Big Apple.\n\n\nIt would depend on where you live, downtown Toronto or Mile 101,\nBritish Columbia (just like Cheyenne, WY vs. Boston, MA). Again,\ngeography rears its ugly head.\n\nSince our health care providers are private, they depend on an\nadequate market size in order to sustain enough business. Since\nour health care professionals have equivalent take-home pay to \ntheir American cousins, it's not that they're being paid too\nlittle to provide services.\n\n\nI have only hear Americans say that it's illegal ... but I could be\nwrong, just have never heard it from a Canadian source. our private\ninsurance has recently balked in Quebec when the Liberals proposed\nprivatizing some aspects of routine care ... also, our insurance was\nput in place when no NDP (Labour) governments were in power in any\nprovince to derail the effort 'cos they wanted real socialized\nmedicine.\n\n\nNo, it is optional ... as it is optional for doctors to accept it.\nThere are isolated religeous communities in particular that ask for\nexemptions (and one e-mail from a Christian Scientist in Edmonton\nverified for me that it is indeed negative option). I guess that you\ncan argue that there is a right to having a particular insurance, but\nso far I've not come across that up north ... and I take pains to keep\ntabs with news from home.\n\n\nBelieve me, they probably had orgasms when they figured that out. And\naccording to my sister the yuppie, they pat themselves on the back to\nthe point of ungraciousness at Chamber of Commerce luncheons.\n\n\nI actually have doubts that any new ones have emerged since WW I ...\nno, scratch that ... there are a few in Western Canada, and *quite* \na few in Quebec as part of the post-1980 Quebec Miracle (out with the\nnationalism, in with the French capitalism). La Groupe des Cooper-\nantes built a new tower by the Eaton('s) store at Les Terraces, and if\nyou were able to catch Urban Angel on CBS's Crimetime you'd see it as\nthe well-lit one with double-turrets at the top. As for Ontario,\nwhich still dominates and anchors business up north ...\n\nCanada is a very old-money kind of place, and the 1989 Free Trade\nAgreement saw a lot of odd alliances: labour unions and establishment\nold money who wanted to preserve their traditional monopolies on one\nside, and entrepreneurs and internationally oriented businesses and\nprofessionals on the other. The final Trudeau administration and\nthe first Mulroney government had a high percentage of nouveaux\nriches who knew what it was like to make your own money, and that\nmotivated the McDonald Commission under Trudeau which set up Brian's\ninitiative (Macaroni was against free trade 'til he did a head count\nof his caucus after the 1984 election).\n\n\nWell, you have to realize that in our society that's like saying\nthat \"it's not really national defence\" because you can't hire\nyour own Rambo squad instead or even opting out as a pacifist.\n(BTW, there are always pacifists in the news arguing about their\nportion of taxes, but never people arguing over health insurance\nalternatives ... and we're talking about a press that is hostile\nto whomever is in government, regardless of party; one of their\nfew redeeming characteristics, it seems (-;).\n\n\nThe only way to hit at the Canadian system is transient periods of\nhigh demand, which is more a function of the doctors monopoly's tight\nfist on the licencing. An obvious difference is that in such a\ntransient period, the rationing is of the nature of a mob battling\nover Cabbage Patch Dolls^TM as we've seen recently as opposed by\nrationing by ability to pay ... but the former is a *transient*\nsituation and if a large body of insured patients were to deluge the\nCalifornia health infrastructure, the same would result --- rationing\namong the insured population. With smaller markets, there is much\nless flexibility when dealing with our insured population than\nCalifornia (which by the way, has 1/3rd more people than Canada in a\nMUCH more dense area). So he is correct in that the resources are\nfixed (for a particular time window, or as a function of the doctors\nmonopoly licencing according to the market steady state) in either\ncase. As for being \"refused treatment\" the government of the day\nwould be shredded to tatters if something like that were to happen;\nCanadians can be geographically bad, too, not realizing that their\nhealth care is private while only their insurance isn't ... too many\npeople have bought into socialist trype that we have socialized\nmedicine.\n\n\nRight, as I've pointed out above ...\n\n\nEither way, the transient situations are hard to deal with since the\nchanges in the private medical care resource take place at a slower\nrate than the ability of people to fall sick esp. in the light of\ndisasters (e.g., Chernobyl) or bad luck (a sudden wave of heart\ndisease). A doctor needs 4-6 years of training, plus internship \nand specialty training.\n\n\nThat's why I've argued for deductible and copayments rather than\neducation, which is what most Canadian fiscal conservatives are\narguing for (the leftists? \"Ah, just let 'em spend!\" --- yeah,\nright!). Also, note that only a few provinces cover prescriptions\nunder some high dollar threshold ... in most, it's your private\ninsurance that covers it just like in the U.S. Still, it all\nadds up in the OECD measures.\n\n\nWe get the Sabres' feed as a replacement game on ESPN tonight (the\nDevils' local metro NY coverage supplants the main ESPN game).\n\n\nYeah, it's a sad story and Saskatchewan Tory leader Grant Devine\nhas been on a nonstop PR campaign to save his sorry butt. The\nSask NDP have taken a neo-conservative turn like Hawke, Gonzalez\nand Mitterand did.\n\n\nThe medical IRA would have limited use, as you'd need a lower\ncatastrophic threshold else there'd still be a drain on the public\npurse if someone exhausts their IRA. Also, Singapore has a much\nmore autocratic mentality which has seaped down into its masses\n(if Singaporeans that I've met are any indication ... I don't\nmean any disprespect here) where they'd let you just die.\n\n\nThat's true ... the question is how much leeway is there between\nthe U.S. approach and the second-most capitalist approaches of\nCanada, France and Germany.\n\n\nYes, many ... and pretty close to a lot of smaller towns or not too\nfar from a bigger town. Just take a look at a detailed atlas ...\nor better, take a flight from Pittsburgh or Rochester to Toronto.\nMy first time across Lake Ontario to NYC, I was amazed by the\nincrease in density ... and the Toronto region is the densest \nin all of Canada.\n\n\nIt's about time! I've ragged on my own doctor friends as to why they\ndon't invest in their own private practices ... in the end, it's their\nmoney. But they choose to spend it on America's Cup pipedreams, and\nthat's none of my business. As for \"provincially owned\" ... for sure\nit's against the law in Canada for governments to be directly involved\nin the provision of health care except in the military or native reser-\nvations. What that term actually means is that the facility gets by\non public grants to meet shortfall from *lack of use* ... no kidding.\nMedical practice itself is much more conservative up north. My own\nbest friend did two clerkships at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN,\nand is no stranger to high tech medicine ... but his boat comes first.\n\n\nNo, it's probably socialist whiners who are offended that we have\nprivate practices ... and always have. They can all take cash\nanyways ... so why not have a particular facility? The Canadian\nbig government mentality often imagines government where it does\nnot even exist ...\n\nSince the French and Germans have become more entrepreneurial and less\nlaidback without sacrificing their culture and values, then Canadians\ncan do the same. As I've pointed out above, the law states that it is\nillegal for the *government* to provide any health services except for\nthe military and natives.\n\nLook, nobody stopped the clinic when they planned on the MRI ...\nnobody stopped them when they bought it. Nobody seems to be stopping\nthem from using it, either. Much ado about nothing. Thank goodness\nthat hockey playoffs have started ...\n\n\nI'm certain there is exaggeration somewhere, because the GAO study\nof Canada cited often on USENET did not find access to MRI to be a\nproblem. I'll bet the doctor is relying on people having listened \nto American trash talk on cable so that he can puff his chest a bit.\nThere are already a few treatment regimens for knee injuries without\nrelying on MRI ... unfortunately, I've had a few. )-; And I'm not\na banker. (-;\n\ngld", "You may want to inquire about taking Lupron as a medication. It's\nsupposed to be a new treatment, and it's described in Nov. 1992\nissue of J. of Obst. and Gyn.", "\n\nPerhaps the listlessness caused by thyroid deficiency could mimic\ndepression, or feeling unable to do anything could cause one to get\ndepressed, but I know of no specific effect on the brain caused by the\nthyroid that would cause depression. Note that weight gain is usually\na symptom of both. Simple blood tests would indicate if a thyroid\ncondition is present.\n\nI don't know if depression would cause a reduction in thyroid output,\nbut I would tend to doubt it. As far as I know clinical depression is\ncaused by a chemical imbalance in the brain, and that chemical\nimbalance has no direct effect on any other part of the body. A regular\neveryday depression IMHO should not cause a chemical imbalance in the\nbody at all.\n\nThe pituitary bases its secretions of Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH)\non the level of circulating Thyroxin (there are two types T3 and T4 -\none is used as a reserve and is changed into the other -active- form in\nthe liver). The ratio of T3 & T4 can be affected by a number of other\nhormones (estrogen, for example). Naturally, changing activity of the\nbody's cells would cause changes in availabilty of free thyroxin, but\nthe liver and a healthy thyroid should be able to balance things out in\nshort order.\n\nGood sources for info on the thyroid are the Merk Manual (a physician's\nreference book ) although reading it is enough to get one depressed :-)\nand the Encyclopedia Brittanica (should be available in your local\nlibrary).\n\nI hope this has been of some help.", "\nNo one else seems to know, so I'll post this.\n\nThis topic came up on sci.physics.fusion shortly after the cold-fusion\nflap started. As I recall, its been done to some experimental mice.\nThey showed various ill effects and eventually died. The reason is\nthat deuterium does not have exactly the same reaction rates as\nhydrogen due to its extra mass (which causes lower velocity, Boltzman\nconstant, mumble). This throws various bits of body biochemistry out\nof kilter, and you get sick and die.\n\nI've never heard of anyone being poisened this way, in or out of real\nlife. The process takes quite a while. If anyone wants to write this\nbook, I would imagine you would have to:\n\n1: Replace a significant fraction of the water in the body with heavy\n water.\n\n2: Wait while normal breakdown and repair processes cause other\n molecules in the body to be synthesised using the deuterium.\n\nDuring this process the victim would gradually deteriorate and\neventually die, but I imagine it would take weeks during which the\npoisoner would have to ensure that a significant proportion of the\nwater the victim ingested was heavy.\n\nYou would get such a mess of symptoms that the doctors would be both\nalarmed and confused. Why should every organ in the body suddenly\nbegin to deteriorate? If you can figure out how the poisoner gets the\nheavy water into the victim in a hospital then you could have a real\nstory here.\n\nCome to think of it, <2> would continue even after the heavy water was\nno longer being ingested, so hospitalisation might be too late.\n\nThe most detectable effect would be that the victim's body fluids\nwould literally be \"heavy\". Water has a molecular weight of 18 and\nheavy water has a MW of 20. Thus the victim's weight will increase by\nabout 1% for every 10% of body water replaced by heavy water. Maybe\nthe detection occurs because some pathologist in the lab notices that\nthe victim's urine is strangely dense. Is there any medical test\ninvolving the specific gravity of a body fluid?\n\nPaul.", "\n The immunization program is just a \"useful first step\". Among other\n things, the money will go to pay for creating and maintaning a\n a computerized \"innoculation\" database on all U.S. children.\n (code-named Big Mother... Just kidding, the name will be Children\n Defense Database, or something like that.)\n\n Once the money is spent and little or no tangible results achieved, \n the goverment will have to start knocking down doors, in some \n neigborhoods, and bribe parents in others (probably the ones that \n are paying kids for attending the school - what a fantastic idea!)\n\n\n\n-- \n------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDisclaimer: Opinions expressed are mine, not my employer's.", "\nYears ago when I was an intern, an obese young woman was brought into\nthe ER comatose after having been reported to have grand mal seizures\nwhy attending a \"corn festival\". We pumped her stomach and obtained\nwhat seemed like a couple of liters of corn, much of it intact kernals. \nAfter a few hours she woke up and was fine. I was tempted to sign her out as\n\"acute corn intoxication.\"\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", " I was told by my doctor\n\n\n\nI've had three children and the pain was different in degree for each. I\nthink it just depends. I was impressed by how awful a kidney stone seemed\nto be, when I saw a relative with one. I bet they depend, too--some are\nprobably worse than others.\n\nPain--yucch.\n", "I'm looking for good background and review paper references that can help me\nunderstand the dynamics of cytoskeleton in normal and transformed cells. In\nparticular, I'm not interested in translational behavior and cell motility,\nbut rather in the internal motions of the cytoskeleton and its components\nunder normal and transformed circumstances.\n\nAlso, I'd appreciate any data on force constants, mechanical, and elastic\nproperties of microtubules, and viscous properties of cytoplasm. Any other\ninfo relevant to the vibrational or acoustical properties of these would\nbe useful to me.\n\nThanks...", "(This is a cross post to rec.gardens and sci.med. Set the follow-up\n(line in the header, depending on what kind of advice you give, or\n(e-mail directly to me: ceci@lysator.liu.se.)\n\nI have a problem with wasps -- they seem to love me. Last summer I\ncouldn't spend more than ten to fifteen minutes at a time in my garden\nbefore one or several wasps would come for me. I am asking for advice\non how to repel wasps.\n\n This year the wasps have built their nest under a stone next to one\nof my tiny ponds. The caretaker (poor fellow!) will have to take care\nof them, and that will give me a head start on them. Last year we\ncouldn't find any nest. Even after the caretaker has gassed the nest\nin my tiny garden of 30 square meter, other wasps will most likely vie\nfor the territory. Is there anything I can grow, rub on my skin or\nspread on the soil that will repel the black and yellow bastards?\nNever mind if it turns my skin purple or kills off all my beloved\nplants, I want to be able to spend time in my garden like everyone\nelse.\n\n Would it help to remove the ponds and the bird bath? The wasps seem\nto come to drink at them, and I suppose that their prey will breed in\nthem. The black tits seem to be afraid of the wasps, because as soon\nas the wasp season starts, they stop coming to have their bath.\n\nEven when I am not trying to win back my patio from 15-20 wasps, they\nseem to love me. The advice I usually get when I ask what to do about\nwasps, is to stand still and not wave my arms. I've got some painful\nstings when trying to follow that advice. I have also tried to use\nhygienic products without perfumes, to no avail. They still love me,\nand come for me, even when I'm in the middle of a crowd. So far only\ntwo things seem to work: To kill it dead or to run into the house and\nclose all doors and windows. \n\nNB: I don't have a problem with bees or bumble-bees, just wasps.\n Patronizing advice redirected to /dev/null.\n\n--Ceci", "In the words of Doktor Kultur, in the Ottawa Citizen,\n\"Remember to unhook the Nitrous Oxide before you leave\nthe Dentist Chair!\" 8^)", "\n...\n\nThere are several different types of Thyroid diseases which would cause\na hypothyroid condition (reduction in the output of the thyroid, mainly\nthyroxin). Except for ones caused by infections, the treatment is\ngenerally thyroxin pills. Hypothyroid conditions caused by infections\nusually disappear when the infection does...this doesn't sound like the\ncase with your wife.\nThyroxin orally does \"shut down the thyroid\" through a feedback loop\ninvolving the pituitary (I believe). The pituitary \"thinks\" that the\ncorrect amount of thyroxin is being produced so it doesn't have to\ntell the thyroid to produce more. This process is reversable! I have\nHashimoto's thyroiditis (an autoimmune condition) and was on thyroxin\nfor approx 6 mo when my endocrinologist suggested I not take the pills\nfor 6 wks. When I was retested for thyroxin levels, they were normal.\nI still get tested every 6mo because the condition might reappear.\nThe pills are safe and have very few side-affects (& those mostly at\nbeginning of treatment). Having a baby might be a problem and would at\nleast require closer monitoring of hormone levels.\nThyroxin controls energy production which explains sleepiness, coldness,\nand weight gain. There is also water retention (possibly around heart),\nchanges in vision, and coarser hair and skin among other things.\n\nI am not a doctor, so I'm sure I mistated something, but the important\nthing is that thyroid problems are usually easily corrected and if they\naren't corrected can cause problems in the rest of the body. Get a\nsecond opinion from a good endocrinologist and have him/her explain\nthings in detail to you and your wife.", "\nYou sure? This maybe a chronic syndrome. If it persists, we may have to \nbanish you to the \"Cub-crazy Sanatarium\" in north Chicago...\n:-):-):-)", "\n\n\n\n\n\nUnfortunately, there's not much we can learn from the statistics presented\nhere either. Due to rounding, the 1991 est. for LSD could be anywhere\nfrom .550 to .649 and the 1992 est. could be anywhere from .850 to .949.\nThis means that the actual change (if you believe these statistics in the\nfirst place) was anywhere from 31% to 73%. Similarly the increase in\ncocaine use could be anywhere from 18% to 66% and the increase of\ncrack use could be anywhere from 29% to 120%. This doesn't even\ntake into account the margin of error which isn't provided here.", ": Has anyone ever heard of a food product called \"Space Food Sticks?\" \n\nI remember those awful things. They were dry and crumbly, and I\nrecall asking my third-grade teacher, Miss G'Francisco, how they\nkept the crumbs from floating around in zero-G. She had no clue.\nI have not seen anything like them in today's space program.\n\nSome Apollo technology is best forgotten.\n\n-- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office\n kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (713) 483-4368", "\nEver heard of something called the placebo effect? I think Dyer is\nreacting because it looks to be yet another case of the same old\nquackery over and over again.\n\nIt true that current medical knowledge is limited, but do you realize\njust HOW MANY quacks exist eager to suck your $$$$. It's playing the\nlottery at best.\n\nIf the results you got were so clear and obvious, would you mind\ntrying a little experiment to see if it is true? It would be quite\nsimple. Have sugar pills and have real pills. Take one set for one\nweek and the other set for another week without knowing which ones are\nthe real pills. Then at the end of the 2 weeks compare the results.\nLet's say you're wife would know which are the real ones. If what you\nare experiencing is true there should be a marked difference between\neach week. \n \njohn\n", "\n\n\n\nIf I remember rightly PKU syndrome in infants is about 1/1200 ? They lack\ntwo genes. And people who lack one gene are supposed to be 1/56 persons?\nThose with PKU have to avoid naturally occuring phenylalanine. And those\nwho only have one gene and underproduce whatever it is they are supposed to\nbe producing are supposed to be less tolerant of aspartame. \n\nThe methol, formaldahyde thing was supposed to occur with heating?", "Sumatriptan(Imitrex) just became available in the US in a subcutaneous\ninjectable form. Is there an oral form available in CA? A friend(yes\nreally not me!) has severe migranes about 2-3 times per week. We\nlive right by the CA border and he has gotten drugs for GERD prescribed\nby a US physician and filled in a CA pharmacy, but not yet FDA approved\nin the US. What would be the cost of the oral form in CA$ also if\nanyone would have that info? ", "If you think you have kidney stones or your doctor tells you that you do,\nDEFINITELY follow up on it. My sister was diagnosed with kidney stones\n1 1/2 years ago and given medication to take to dissolve them. After that\nfailed and she continued to be in great pain, they decided she had\nendometriosis. When they did exploratory surgery, they discovered she\nhad a tumor, which turned out to be rhabdomyosarcoma -- a very rare \nand agressive cancer. I realize this is not what happens in the majority\nof cases, but you never know what can happen and shouldn't take chances!\n", "Is erythromycin effective in treating pneumonia?", "\nI've got a very nice collection of historical books on medical quackery,\nand on the topic of massage this is a recurring theme. Ordinary massage\nis intended to make a person feel better, especially if they have muscular\nor joint problems. But -- like chiropracty -- there are some practitioners\nwho take the technique to a far extreme, invoking what seems to me to be\nquack science to justify their technique.\n\nIn the case of massage, there is a technique called \"deep abdominal massage\"\nin which the masseur is literally attempting to massage the intestines!\nThe notion is that undigested food adheres to the inner surface of the\nintestines and putrifies, releasing poisons which cause various disease\nsyndromes. By this vigorous and painful procedure, it is alleged that\nthese deposits can be loosened up and passed out.", "Alexis Perry asked if low blood potassium could be dangerous. Yes.\nZZ\n", "\nThe FDA, I believe. Rules say no blood or blood products donations\nfrom anyone who has been in a malarial area for 3 years. I was a platelet\ndonor until my Thailand trip and my blood bank was very disappointed\nto find out they couldn't use me for 3 years.\n\nNot necessarily. The same rules may not apply to organ donation\nas to blood donation. In fact, I'm sure they don't.\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "\nI've gotten migraines after exercise, though for me it seems to be related\nto exercising without having eaten recently. ", "\nI guess I'm still not clear on what the term \"candida bloom\" means,\nbut certainly it is well known that thrush (superficial candidal\ninfections on mucous membranes) can occur after antibiotic use.\nThis has nothing to do with systemic yeast syndrome, the \"quack\"\ndiagnosis that has been being discussed.\n\n\n\nLucky how? Since a recent article (randomized controlled trial) of\noral yogurt on reducing vaginal candidiasis, I've mentioned to a \nnumber of patients with frequent vaginal yeast infections that they\ncould try eating 6 ounces of yogurt daily. It turns out most would\nrather just use anti-fungal creams when they get yeast infections.\n\n\nAgain, this just isn't what the systemic yeast syndrome is about, and\nhas nothing to do with the quack therapies that were being discussed.\nThere is some evidence that attempts to reinoculate the GI tract with\nbacteria after antibiotic therapy don't seem to be very helpful in\nreducing diarrhea, but I don't think anyone would view this as a\nquack therapy.", "A friend of mine is going in later this week for tests to see if has\nemphysema. His lung capacity has decreased over time. His father died\nof the disease. He works in woodworking. I believe he has a very\noccasional cigarette, perhaps one cigarette a day or even less. He tells\nme this..I've never seen him light up. He has some pretty healthy\nlife style habits, good diet, exercise, meditation, retreats, therapy\netc. Anyhow..he is very concerned with this check up. I know really\nnothing about the disease. I believe it interferes with the lining\nof the lung being able to exchange oxygen. ", "\nMainly carbon dust with iron in a plastic binder that is melted on to the\npaper. Same stuff as dry paper photocopiers.\n\nAllergies? Haven't heard of any, but anything's possible with allergies ;-)", "GREAT post Martin. Very informative, well-balanced, and humanitarian\nwithout neglecting the need for scientific rigor.\n\n\n(Cross-posted to alt.psychology.personality since some personality typing\nwill be discussed at the beginning - Note: I've set all followups to sci.med\nsince most of my comments are more sci.med oriented and I'm sure most of the\nreplies, if any, will be med-related.)\n\n\n\n\nThey are just responding in their natural way: Hyper-Choleric Syndrome (HCS).\nOops, that is not a recognized \"illness\" in the psychological community,\nbetter not say that since it therefore must not, and never will, exist. :^)\n\nActually, it is fascinating that a disproportionate number of physicians\nwill type out as NT (for those not familiar with the Myers-Briggs system,\njust e-mail me and I'll send a summary file to you). In the general\npopulation, NT's comprise only about 12% of the population, but among\nphysicians it is much much higher (I don't know the exact percentage -\nany help here a.p.p.er's?)\n\nOne driving characteristic of an NT, especially an NTJ, is their obvious\ncholeric behavior (driver, type A, etc.) - the extreme emotional need to\ncontrol, to lead, and/or to be the best or the most competent. If they are\nalso extroverted, they are best described as \"Field Marshalls\". This trait\nis very valuable and essential in our society - we need people who want to\nlead, to strive to overcome the elements, to seek and thirst for knowledge,\nto raise the level of competency, etc. The great successes in science and\ntechnology are in large part due to the vision (an N trait) and scientifically-\nminded approach (T trait) of the NT personality (of course, the other types\nand temperaments have their own positive contributions as well). However,\nwhen the NT person has self-image challenges, the \"dark-side\" of this\npersonality type usually comes out, which should be obvious to all.\n\nA physician who is a strong NT and who has not learned to temper their\ntemperament will be extremely business-like (lack of empathy or feeling),\nand is very compelled to have total control over their patient (the patient\nmust be obedient to their diagnosis and prescription without question). I've\nknown many M.D.'s of this temperament and suffice to say I don't oblige them\nwith a followup visit, no matter how competent I think they are (and they\nusually are very competent from a knowledge viewpoint since that is an\nextreme drive of theirs - to know the most, to know it all).\n\nMaybe we need more NF doctor's. :^)\n\nEnough on this subject - let's move on to candida bloom.\n\n\n\nYou've helped me already by your post. Of course, I believe that I have\nbeen misdiagnosed on the net as suffering from 'anal retentivitis', but being\nthe phlegmatic I am, maybe I was just a little too harsh on a few people\nmyself in past posts. Let's all try to raise the level of this discussion\nabove the level of anal effluent.\n\n\n\nIn my well-described situation (in prior posts), I definitely was immune\nstressed. Blood tests showed my vitamin A levels were very low. My sinuses\nwere a mess - no doubt the mucosal lining and the cilia were heavily damaged.\nI also was on antibiotics 15 times in 4 years! In the end, even two weeks\nof Ceftin did not work and I had confirmed diagnoses of a chronic bacterial\ninfection of the sinuses via cat-scans, mucus color (won't get into the\ndetails), and other symptoms. Three very traditional ENT's made this\ndiagnosis (I did not have any cultures done, however, because of the\ndifficulty of doing this right and because my other symptoms clearly showed\na bacterial infection). Enough of this background (provided to help you\nunderstand where I was when I make comments about my Sporanox anti-fungal\ntherapy below).\n\n\nThe first question I have is this. Can fungus penetrate a little way into poor\nmucus membrane tissue, maybe via hyphae, thus causing symptoms, without being\nconsidered 'systemic' in the classic sense? It is sort of an inbetween\ninfection.\n\n\n\nI was concerned, too, because of the toxicity of vitamin A. My doctor, after\nmy blood tests, put me on 75,000 IU of vitamin A for one week only, then\ndropped it down to 25,000 IU for the next couple of weeks. I also received\nzinc and other supplementation, since all of these interrelate in fairly\ncomplex ways as my doctor explained (he's one of those 'evil' orthomolecular\nspecialists). I had a blood test three weeks later and vitamin A was normal,\nhe then stopped me on all vitamin A (except for some in a multi-vitamin)\nsupplement), and made sure that I maintain a 50,000 IU/day of beta carotene.\nCall me carrot face. :^)\n\nHopefully, Elaine's doctor will take a similar, careful approach and to\nall supplements. I'm even reevaluating some supplements I'm taking, for\nexample, niacin in fairly large dosages, 1 gram/day, which Steve Dyer had\ngood information about on sci.med.nutrition. If niacin only has second-order\nimprovement in symptomatic relief of my sinus allergies, then it probably is\nnot worth taking such a large dose long-term and risking liver damage.\n\n\n\nThough I do now believe, based on my successful therapy with Sporanox, that\nI definitely had some excessive growth of fungus (unknown species) in my\nsinuses, I still want to ask the question: have there been any studies that\ndemonstrate candida \"blooms\" in the sinuses with associated sinus irritation\n(sinusitis/rhinitis)? (My sinus irritation reduced significantly after one\nweek of Sporanox and no other new treatments were implemented during this\ntime - I did not have any noticeable GI track problems before starting on\nSporanox, but some for a few days after which then went away - considered\nnormal).\n\nBTW, my doctor dug out one of his medical reference books (sorry, can't\nremember which one), and found an obscure comment dating back into the 1950's\nwhich stated that people can develop contained (non-lethal or non-serious)\naspergillis infestations (aspergiliosis) of the sinuses leading to sinus\ninflammation symptoms. I'll have to dig out that reference again since it\nis relevant to this discussion.\n\n\n\nMy doctor tested me (I believe a RAST or RAST similar test) for allergic\nresponse to specificially Candida albicans, and I showed a strong positive.\nAnother question, would everybody show the same strong positive so this test\nis essentially useless? And, assuming it is true that Candida can grow\npart-way into the mucus membrane tissue, and the concentration exceeds a \nthreshold amount, could not a person who tests as having an allergy to\nCandida definitely develop allergic symptoms, such as mucus membrane\nirritation due to the body's allergic response? As I said in an earlier post,\none does not need to be a rocket scientist, or have a M.D. degree or a \nPh.D. in biochemistry to see the plausibility of this hypothesis.\n\nBTW, and I'll repost this again. Dr. Ivker, in his book, \"Sinus Survival\",\nhas routinely given, before anything else, Nizoral (a pre-Sporanox systemic\nanti-fungal, not as safe and not as good as Sporanox) to his new chronic\nsinusitis patients IF they have been on antibiotics four or more times in\nthe last two years. He claims that out of 2000 or so patients, well over\n90% notice some relief of sinus inflammation and other symptoms, but it\ndoesn't cure it by any means, implying the so-called yeast/fungus infection\nis not the primary cause, but a later complication. He's also found that\nnystatin, whether taken internally, or put into a sinus spray, does not help.\n\nThis implies (of course assuming that excessive yeast/fungus bloom is\naggravating the sinus inflammation) that the yeast/fungus has grown partway\ninto the tissue since nystatin will not kill yeast/fungus other than by\ndirect contact - it is not absorbed into the blood stream. Again, I admit,\nlots of 'ifs', and 'implies', which doesn't please the hard-core NT who\nhas to have the double-blind study or it's a non-issue, but one has to start\nwith some plausible hypothesis/explanation, a strawman, if you will.\n\n\n\nThis brings up an interesting observation used by those who will deny\nand reject any and all aspects of the 'yeast hypothesis' until the\nappropriate studies are done. And that is if you can't observe or culture\nthe yeast \"bloom\" in the gut or sinus, then there's no way to diagnose or\neven recognize the disease. And I know they realize that it is virtually\nimpossible to test for candida overbloom in any part of the body that cannot\nbe easily observed since candida is everywhere in the body.\n\nIt's a real Catch-22.\n\nAnother Catch-22: Those who totally reject the 'yeast hypothesis' say that\nno studies have been done (actually studies have been done, but if it's not\nup to a certain standard then it is, from their perspective, a non-study which\nshould not even be considered). I agree that the appropriate studies should\nbe done, and that will take big $ to do it right. However, in order to\nconvince the funding agencies in these austere times to open their wallets,\nyou literally have to give them evidence, and the only acceptable evidence to\ncompete with other proposals is paradoxically to do almost the exact study\nneeded funding. That is, you have to do 90% of the study before you even get\nfunding (as a scientist at a National Lab, I'm very aware of this for the\nsmaller funded projects). I'm afraid that even if Dr. Ivker and 100 other\ndoctors got together, pooled their practice's case histories and anecdotes\ninto a compelling picture, and approach the funding agencies, they would get\nnowhere, even if they were able to publish their statistical results.\n\nIt is obvious from the comments by some of the doctors here is that they have\n*decided* excessive yeast colonization in the gut or sinuses leading to\nnoticeable non-lethal symptoms does not exist, and is not even a tenable\nhypothesis, so any amount of case histories or compiled anecdotal evidence\nto the contrary will never change their mind, and not only that, they would\nalso oppose the needed studies because in their minds it's a done issue - \nexcessive yeast growth leading to diffuse allergic symptoms does not, will\nnot, and cannot exist. Period. Kind of tough to dialog with those who hold\nsuch a viewpoint. Kind of reminds me of Lister...\n\n\n\nAren't there also other nutrients necessary to the proper working of the\nsinus mucus membranes and cilia?\n\n\n\nAgain, the evidence from mycological studies indicate that many yeast/fungus\nspecies can grow hyphae (\"roots\") into deep tissue, similar to mold growing\nin bread. You can continue to kill the surface, such as nystatin does, but\nyou can't kill that which is deeper in the tissue without using a systemic\nanti-fungal such as itraconazole (Sporanox) or some of the older ones such\nas Nizoral which are more toxic and not as effective. This is why, as has\nbeen pointed out by recent studies (sent to me by a doctor I've been in\ne-mail contact with - thanks), that nystatin is not effective in the long-\nterm treatment of GI tract \"candidiasis\". It's like trying to weed a garden\nby cutting off what's above the ground but leaving the roots ready to come\nout again once you walk away.\n\nThe $60000 question is whether a contained candida \"bloom\" can partially\ngrow into tissue through the mucus membranes, causing some types of symptoms\nin susceptible people (e.g., allergy), without becoming \"systemic\" in the\nclassical sense of the word - something in between strictly an excessive\nbloom not causing any problems and the full-blown systemic infection that\nis potentially lethal.\n\n\n\nAlso, if one is an 'anal retentive', like I've been diagnosed in a prior\npost, that can also provide more sites for excessive candida growth. ;^)\n\n\n\nAs I've said in private e-mail, there are flaws in our current medical system\nthat make it difficult or even impossible for a physician to attempt\nalternative therapies AFTER the approved/proven/accepted therapies don't work.\nFor example, I went to three ENT's, who all said that I will just have to live\nwith my acute/chronic sinusitis after the ab's failed (they did mention\nsurgery to open up the ostia, but my ostia weren't plugged and it would not\nget to the root cause of my condition). After three months of aggressive and\nfairly non-standard therapy (Sporanox, body nutrient level monitoring and\nequalization, vitamin C, lentinen, echinacea, etc.), my health has vastly\nimproved to where I was two years ago, before my health greatly deteriorated.\nOf course, skeptics would say that maybe if I did nothing I would have\nimproved anyway, but that view is stretching things quite far because of the\nexperience of the three ENT's I saw who said that I'd just have to \"live with\nit\". I'm confident I will reach what one could call a total \"cure\". The\nanti-fungal program I undertook was one necessary step in that direction\nbecause of my overuse of ab's for the last four years. (Note: for those\nhaving sinus problems, may I suggest the book by Dr. Ivker I mention above.\nBe sure to get the revised edition.)\n\n\n\nDr. Ivker started off having chronic and severe sinus problems, and his\nvisits to several ENT's totally floored him when they said \"you'll just have\nto live with it\". He spent several years trying everything - standard and\nnon-standard, until he was essentially cured of chronic sinusitis. He now\nshares his approach in his book and I can honestly say that I am on the road\nto recovery following some parts of it. His one recommendation to take a\nsystemic anti-fungal at the beginning of treatment IF you have a history of\nanti-biotic overuse has been proven to him time and time again in his own\npractice. I'm sure if I commented to him of the hard-core beliefs of the anti-\n\"yeast hypothesis\" posters that he would have definite things to say, such as,\n\"it's worked wonders for me in almost two thousand cases\", to put it mildly.\nI also would not be surprised if he would say that they are the ones violating\ntheir moral obligations to help the patient.\n\nMaybe those doctors who are reading this who have a practice and are\nconfronted by a patient having symptoms that could be due to the \"hypothetical\nyeast overgrowth\" (e.g., they fit some of the profiles the pro-yeast people\nhave identified), should consider anti-fungal therapy IF all other avenues\nhave been exhausted. Remember, theory and practice are two different things -\nyou cannot have one without the other, they are synergistic. If a doctor does\nsomething non-standard yet produces noticeable symptomatic relief in over a\nthousand of his patients, shouldn't you at least sit up and take notice?\nMaybe you ought to trust what he says and begin hypothesizing why it works\ninstead of why it shouldn't work. I'm afraid a lot of doctors have become\nso enamored with \"scientific correctness\" that they are ignoring the patients\nthey have sworn to help. You have to do both; both have to be balanced, which\nwe don't see from some of the posters to this group. There comes a point when\nyou just have to use a little common sense, and maybe an empirical approach\n(such as trying a good systemic anti-fungal such as Sporanox) after having\nexhausted all the other avenues. I was one of those who the traditional\nmedical establishment was not able to help, so I did the natural thing: I\nwent to a couple of doctor's who are (somewhat) outside this establishment,\nand as a result I have found significant relief.\n\nWould it not be better if the traditional medical establishment can set up\nsome kind of mechanism where any doctor, without fear of being sued or having\nhis license pulled, can try experimental and unproven (beyond a doubt)\ntherapies for his/her patients that finally reach the point where all the\naccepted therapies are ineffective? I'd like to hear a doctor tell me:\n\"well, I've tried all the therapies that are approved and accepted in this\ncountry, and since they clearly don't work for you, I now have the authority\nto use experimental, unproven techniques that seem to have helped others. I\ncan't promise anything, and there are some risks. You will have to sign\nsomething saying you understand the experimental and possibly risky nature of\nthese unproven therapies, and I'll have to register your case at the State\nBoard.\" Anyway, if my ENT had suggested this to me, I would've jumped on this\npronto instead of going to one of those doctors who, for either altruistic\nreasons, or for greed, is practicing these alternative therapies with much\nrisk to him/her (risk meaning losing their license) and possibly to the\npatient. Such a mechanism would keep control in the more mainstream medicine,\nand also provide valuable data that would essentially be free. It also would\nbe morally and ethically better than the current system by showing the\ncompassion of the medical community to the patient - that it's doing everything\nit can within reason to help the patient. It is the lack of such a mechanism\nthat is leading large numbers of people to try alternative therapies, some of\nwhich seem to work (like my case), and others of which will never work at all\n(true quackery).\n\nI better get off my soapbox before this post reaches 500K in size.\n\n\n\nWhat dosage of B6 appears to be necessary to promote the healing and proper\nworking of the mucos memebranes?\n\n\n\nI'd like to see the role of complex carbohydrates, such as starch.\n\n\n\nBrave soul you are. The venom on Usenet can be quite toxic unless one\ndevelops an immunity to it. One year ago, my phlegmatic self would have\nbacked down right away from an attack of cholericitis. But my immune\nsystem, and my computer system, have been hardened from gradual\ndesensitization. I now kind of like being called \"anal retentive\" - it has\na nice ring to it. I also was very impressed by how it just flowed into the\npost - truly classic, worthy of a blue (or maybe brown) ribbon. I might\neven cross-post it to alt.best.of.internet. Hmmm...\n\n\n\nThanks again for a great and informative post. I hope others who have\nresearched this area and are lurking in the background will post their\nthoughts as well, no matter their views on this subject.\n\nJon Noring\n\n\n-- \n\nCharter Member --->>> INFJ Club.", "Organization: Temple University\nX-Newsreader: NNR/VM S_1.3.2\n\nLast week I went to see a gastroenterologist. I had never met this\ndoctor before, and she did not know what I was there for. As soon as I\narrived, somebody showed me to an examining room and handed me a gown.\nThey told me to undress (from the waist down, to be exact) and wait for the\ndoctor. Is this the usual drill when you go to a doctor for the first\ntime? I don't have much experience going to doctors (knock on wood), but\non the couple of occasions when I've gone to a new doctor, I met him\nwith my clothes on. First, he introduced himself, asked what I was there\nfor and took a history, all before I undressed.\n \nAre patients usually expected to get naked before meeting a doctor\nfor the first time? Personally, I'd prefer to meet the doctor on\nsomething remotely resembling a condition of parity and to establish an\nidentity as a person who wears clothes before dropping my drawers. If\nnothing else, it minimizes the time that I have to spend in the self\nconscious, ill at ease and vulnerable condition of a person with a bare\nbottom talking to somebody who is fully clothed.\n \nDoes anybody besides me regard this get-naked-first-and-then-we-can-talk\nattitude as insensitive? Also, is it unusual?\n ", "\nGood point, Brett. It might merely be proof that basic health care\nmarkets operate differently, with certain nonmarket phenomenom that\nthe private sector can't handle well (like armies vs. warlords). In\nthat respect, the effects on American society vs. Canadian/European\nsociety might also be different.\n\n\nGood point again. Blue Cross in the U.S. is quite convoluted compared\nto the Canadian and German insurance funds, which have a minimal\norganization to coordinate it. If anything, bureaucracy now needs to\nbe built up in Canada to combat fraud, such as Americans crossing the\nborder individually to use insurance cards borrowed from friends and\nrelatives or using phony domestic addresses, or fraud rings stealing\nthem in blocks. Our private practices are now recording insurance\naccount numbers, both public insurance and private insurance, which\nmost have never bothered to do before on assumption of an honour \nsystem.\n\ngld", "\n\n\nARGHHHHHHHHHh\n\nREAD THE MEMOS!!!!\n\nI said that I PERSONALLY had other people order the EXACT SAME FOOD at\nTWO DIFFERENT TIMES from the SAME RESTAURANT and the people that\nordered the food for me did NOT TELL ME which time the MSG was in the\nfood and which time it was not in the food.\n\nONE TIME I HAD A REACTION\n\nONE TIME I DID NOT\n\nTHE REACTION CAME THE TIME THE MSG WAS IN THE FOOD\n\nTHAT WAS THE ONLY DIFFERENCE\n\nSAME RESTAURANT - SAME INGREDIENTS!!!\n\n\nI eat lots of Chinese food - I LOVE Chinese food. I've just learned\nthe following\n\nIF I get food at one of the restaurants that DOES NOT USE MSG or\n\nIF I prepare the food myself without MSG or \n\nIF I order the food from a restaurant that will hold the MSG (and I\nnever get soup unless it's from a restaurant that cooks without the\nMSG)\n\nI DO NOT GET A REACTION!!!!\n\nOKAY\n\nDO YOU UNDERSTAND!!!!\n\nI GET A REACTION FROM MSG\n\nI DO NOT GET A REACTION WHEN THERE IS NO MSG\n\nIf you're having trouble understand this, please tell me which of the\nwords you do not understand and I'll look them up in the dictionary\nfor you.\n\n--\nThe great secret of successful marriage is to treat all disasters\nas incidents and none of the incidents as disasters. \n -- Harold Nicholson", "\nGee! Maybe I've misjudged you, Russell. Anyone who agrees with something \nI say can't be all bad. ;-)\n\nSeriously, I'm not sure whether I misjudged you or not, in one respect. \nI still have a major problem, though, with your insistence that science \nis mainly about avoiding mistakes. And I still disagree with your \ncontention that nobody who doesn't use methods deemed \"scientific\" \ncan possibly know what's true and what's not. \n\n\nOkay, so let's see if we agree on this: FIRST of all, there are degrees \nof certainty. It might be appropriate, for instance, to demand carefully \ncontrolled trials before we accept as absolute scientific truth (to the \nextent that there is any such thing) the effectiveness of a certain \ntreatment. On the other hand, highly favorable clinical experience, even \nif uncontrolled, can be adequate to justify a *preliminary* judgement that\na treatment is useful. This is often the best evidence we can hope for\nfrom investigators who do not have institutional or corporate support.\nIn this case, it makes sense to tentatively treat claims as credible\nbut to reserve final judgement until establishment scientists who are\nqualified and have the necessary resources can do more careful testing.\n\nSECONDLY, it makes sense to be more tolerant in our standards of \nevidence for a pronounced effect than for one that is marginal. \n\n\nI come to this dispute about what science is not only as a\nmathematician but as a veteran of many arguments in sci.psychology (and\noccasionally in sci.med) about NLP (Neurolinguistic Programming). Much\nof the work done to date by NLPers can be better categorized as\ninformal exploration than as careful scientific research. For years\nnow I have been trying to get scientific and clinical psychologists to\njust take a look at it, to read a few of the books and watch some of\nthe videotapes (courtesy of your local university library). Not for\nthe purpose of making a definitive judgement, but simply to look at the\nNLP methodology (especially the approach to eliciting information from\nsubjects) and look for ideas and hypotheses which might be of\nscientific interest. And most especially to be aware of the\n*questions* NLP suggests which might be worthy of scientific\ninvestigation.\n\nOver and over again the response I get in sci.pychology is \"If this\nhasn't been thoroughly validated by the accepted form of empirical\nresearch then it can't be of any interest to us.\" \n\nTo me, the ultimate reducio ad absurdum of the extreme \"There've got to\nbe controlled studies\" position is an NLP technique called the Fast\nPhobia/Trauma Cure.\n\nSimple phobias (as opposed to agoraphobia) may not be the world's most \nimportant psychological disorder, but the nice thing about them is that \nit doesn't take a sophisticated instrument to diagnose them or tell \nwhen someone is cured of one. The NLP phobia cure is a simple \nvisualization which requires less than 15 minutes. (NLPers claim that\nit can also be used to neutralize a traumatic memory, and hence is\nuseful in treating Post-traumatic Stress Syndrome.) It is essentially\na variation on the classic desensitization process used by behavioral\ntherapists. A subject only needs to be taken through the technique once\n(or, in the case of PTSD, once for each traumatic incident). The\nprocess doesn't need to be repeated and the subject doesn't need to\npractice it over again at home.\n\nNow to me, it seems pretty easy to test the effectiveness of this cure. \n(Especially if, as NLPers claim, the success rate is extremely high.) \nTake someone with a fear of heights (as I used to have). Take them up \nto a balcony on the 20th floor and observe their response. Spend 15 \nminutes to have them do the simple visualization. Send them back up to \nthe balcony and see if things have changed. Check back with them in a \nfew weeks to see if the cure seems to be lasting. (More long term \nfollow-up is certainly desirable, but from a scientific point of view \neven a cure that lasts several weeks has significance. In any case, \nthere are many known cases where the cure has lasted years. To the best \nof my knowledge, there is no known case where the cure has been reversed \nafter holding for a few weeks.) (My own cure, incidentally, was done\nwith a slightly different NLP technique, before I learned of the Fast \nPhobia/Trauma Cure. Ten years later now, I enjoy living on the 17th\nfloor of my building and having a large balcony.) \n\nThe folks over in sci.psychology have a hundred and one excuses not to\nmake this simple test. They claim that only an elaborate outcome study\nwill be satisfactory --- a study of the sort that NLP practitioners, \nmany of whom make a barely marginal living from their practice, can ill \nafford to do. (Most of them are also just plain not interested, because \nthe whole idea seems frivolous. And since they're not part of the\nscientific establishment, they have no tangible rewards to gain \nfrom scientific acceptance.) \n\nThe Fast Phobia/Trauma Cure is over ten years old now and the clinical \npsychology establishment is still saying \"We don't have any way of \nknowing that it's effective.\" \n\nThese academics themselves have the resources to do a study as elaborate \nas anyone could want, of course, but they say \"Why should I prove your \ntheory?\" and \"The burden of proof is on the one making the claim.\" \nOne academic in sci.psychology said that it would be completely \nunscientific for him to test the phobia cure since it hasn't \nbeen described in a scientific journal. (It's described in a number of \nbooks and I've posted articles in sci.psychology describing it in as much \ndetail as I'm capable of.) \n\nActually, at least one fairly careful academic study has been done (with \nfavorable results), but it's apparently not acceptable because it's a\ndoctoral dissertation and not published in a refereed journal.\n\nTo me, this sort of attitude does not advance science but hinders it. \nThis is the kind of thing I have in mind when I talk about \"doctrinnaire\" \nattitudes about science. \n\nNow maybe I have been unfair in imputing such attitudes to you, Russell. \nIf so, I apologize. \n \n--\nIn the arguments between behaviorists and cognitivists, psychology seems \nless like a science than a collection of competing religious sects. ", "I attended high school in the San Jose, California area in the early 1980's,\nand I remember a (smallish) outbreak of a strange illness, in which\npeople developed measles-like spots on their bodies. This condition\nseemed to last only a few days, and I don't recall anyone reporting any other\nsymptoms. I seem to recall reading somewhere that this was believed to have\nbeen viral in nature, but I don't know for sure.\n\nHowever, I have been curious since then about this.", "\nThis is ridiculous, and your doctor sounds like a nut, if what is\nreported here is what the doctor actually said. If your wife's\npancreas stops producing insulin and therefore becomes diabetic, she'll\nneed insulin replacement. That doesn't mean she's \"dependent\" on\ninsulin, anymore than she was beforehand--if her body doesn't make\nenough, she'll have to get it elsewhere. Oral thyroid replacement\nhormone therapy is the cornerstone of treatment for hypothyroidism, and\nit's really the only effective therapy available anyway. Plus, it's\ncheap. Taking thyroid hormone when it isn't needed does cause your\nthyroid gland to reduce its own production of the hormone, but that's a\n_feature_, not a _bug_, and it's irrelevant in any case in the face of\nhypothyroidism, because her problem that her gland isn't producing\nenough. There isn't a clinical phenomenon of \"thyroid insufficiency\"\ncaused by a sudden discontinuation of exogenous thyroid hormone\nanalogous to adrenal insufficiency caused by the sudden cessation of\nprolonged administration of corticosteroids, so there should be no\nworry about inappropriately \"suppressing\" the thyroid gland.\n\n\nHomeopathy is nonsense. Tell her to stop wasting her money, health and time,\nand get her to a legitimate doctor who will be in a position to make\na proper diagnosis and recommend the right therapy.\n", "\n\n Speaking from experience, one doesn't need drugs to become disoriented\nduring hospital stays. I was in hosp for 5 days in late Jan; what with\ngeneral noise at all hours of night, staff coming every time I turned over,\nor whatever, to check me out, I didn't get much sustained sleep at night.\nSpent days groggy & dozing, and all it was from my perspective was that I\nwas TIRED!", "-*----\n\nI pity those who hope that medical knowledge can resolve issues\nsuch as this. This issue has been rehashed in sci.med time and\ntime again. The bottom line is this: in normal circumstances,\nboth the medical advantages of and the medical risks of\ncircumcision are minor. This means that the decision is left to\nthe religious, cultural, ethical, and aesthetic mores of the\nparents, at best, or to the habit of the concerned hospital or\ncaregivers, at worst. \n\nAs (prospective) parents, you should do what you want in this\nregard and not worry about it too much. In terms of decisions\nyou make for your child, it will have far less importance than\nmany -- such as which schools you choose -- that most parents\nthink about only a little. \n\nThis question will undoubtedly push the buttons of people who\nfeel that the decision to circumcise your infant or not is a\nmomentous medical decision. It is not.", "No one can answer that. If she gets reflex sympathetic dystrophy,\nit could last forever. Just hope she does not. Most don't.\n\n\nSometimes they do and sometimes they don't. You just have to do the\nbest job you can reattaching and hope. You should know in a few\nmonths.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "I used to be on lopid. It did a good job of reducing cholesterol (295\ndown to around 214), as well as LDL and triglycerides. Then, I got\npneumonia, and for some reason, the Lopid stopped working very well;\ncholesterol and triglycerides soared. The levels might have stabilized\nover time, but a new doctor had me quit, wait a month, then switch\nto Mevicore. \n\nOn Mevicore, my total cholesterol was down to 207, LDL was 108, \nand HDL was 35; but the trig's were still\nvery high, around 318, and my liver tests came back slightly abnormal, \nSGOT = 83 (N = 1-35), GGTP(?hard to read copy) = 42 (N = 0 - 35).\n\nHe said the liver numbers were not offbase enough to cause him\nconcern, and the triglycerides are not as important as the cholesterol\nfigures. He had me stop the Mevicore to allow the liver to heal (\"Just\nto be extra cautious, though I'm sure it's not a problem.\"),\nand wants me to go back on it after that. I suggested maybe Lopid might\nbe the better choice, and he said that he wouldn't object if that's what\nI want to do. But Lopid has one particular side effect I'm not fond of.", "Without restating the thread going here.....\n\nZoloft is a stimulating antidepressant.\n\nIt is unfortunate that antidepressant therapy is trial and error, but\nif it is any help, there are a lot of people using the side effects of\nthe many medications to help manage other conditions.\n\nHang in there, maybe someday a \"brain chemistry set\" will be available\nand all the serotonin questions will have answers.", "\nElisabeth, let's set the record straight for the nth time, I have not read \n\"The Yeast Connection\". So anything that I say is not due to brainwashing \nby this \"hated\" book. It's okay I guess to hate the book, by why hate me?\nElisabeth, I'm going to quote from Zinsser's Microbiology, 20th Edition.\nA book that you should be familiar with and not \"hate\". \"Candida species \ncolonize the mucosal surfaces of all humans during birth or shortly \nthereafter. The risk of endogenous infection is clearly ever present. \nIndeed, candidiasis occurs worldwide and is the most common systemic \nmycosis.\" Neutrophils play the main role in preventing a systemic \ninfection(candidiasis) so you would have to have a low neutrophil count or \n\"sick\" neutrophils to see a systemic infection. Poor diet and persistent \nparasitic infestation set many third world residents up for candidiasis.\nYour assessment of candidiasis in the U.S. is correct and I do not dispute \nit.\n\nWhat I posted was a discussion of candida blooms, without systemic \ninfection. These blooms would be responsible for local sites of irritation\n(GI tract, mouth, vagina and sinus cavity). Knocking down the bacterial \ncompetition for candida was proposed as a possible trigger for candida \nblooms. Let me quote from Zinsser's again: \"However, some factors, such as \nthe use of a broad-spectrum antibacterial antibiotic, may predispose to \nboth mucosal and systemic infections\". I was addressing mucosal infections\n(I like the term blooms better). The nutrition course that I teach covers \nthis effect of antibiotic treatment as well as the \"cure\". I guess that \nyour nutrition course does not, too bad. \n\n\n\nMy, my Elisabeth, do I detect a little of Steve Dyer in you? If you \nnoticed my faculty rank, I'm a biochemist, not a microbiologist.\nCandida is classifed as a fungus(according to Zinsser's). But, as you point \nout, it displays dimorphism. It is capable of producing yeast cells, \npseudohyphae and true hyphae. Elisabeth, you are probably a microbiologist \nand that makes a lot of sense to you. To a biochemist, it's a lot of \nGreek. So I called it a yeast-like fungus, go ahead and crucify me.\n\nYou know Elisabeth, I still haven't been able to figure out why such a small \nlittle organism like Candida can bring out so much hostility in people in \nSci. Med. And I must admitt that I got sucked into the mud slinging too.\nI keep hoping that if people will just take the time to think about what \nI've said, that it will make sense. I'm not asking anyone here to buy into \n\"The Yeast Connection\" book because I don't know what's in that book, plain \nand simple. And to be honest with you, I'm beginning to wish that it was never \nwritten.", "Does anyone know of research done on the use of haldol in the elderly? Does \nshort-term use of the drug ever produce long-term side-effects after\nthe use of the drug? My grandmother recently had to be hospitalized\nand was given large doses of haldol for several weeks. Although the\ndrug has been terminated, she has changed from a perky, slightly\nsenile woman into a virtual vegetable who does not talk to anyone\nand who cannot even eat or brush her teeth without assistance. It\nseems incredible to me that such changes could take place in the\ncourse of just one and one-half months. I have to believe that the\ncombination of the hospital stay and some drug(s) are in part\ncatalysts for this. Any comments?\n", "I recently learned about these devices that supposedly induce specific \nbrain wave frequencies in their users simply by wearing them. Mind machines\nconsist of LED gogles, head phones, and a microprocessor that controls them.\nThey strobe the (closed) eye and send sound pulses in sync with the flashing\nLEDs. I understand that these devices are experimental, but they are available.\nI've heard claims that they can induce sleep, and light trance states for\nrelaxation. Essentially they are supposed to work without aid of drugs etc...\nI would think that if they work as reported they would be incredibly useful,\nThe few sources I've seen are biased (they are selling the things, and a\nfriend who has tried them claims that \"every home should have one\"). So \ndo these mind machines (aka Light and Sound machines) work? can they induce\nalpha, theta, and/or delta waves in a person wearing them? What research if\nany has been done on them? Could they be used in lieu of a tranquilizer?\nOr are they just another bit of quackery?\n\nWeb Homer", "Pennicillin if i have everything correct, was a highly valuable\nMyco-toxin, discovered during WW2. It proved to have an amazing\nBacterio-cidal effect without human toxicity. It's immediate\nadministration showed immediate dramatic results solving\nproblems that previously were fatal. Although initially\nenormously expensive to culture, within 3 years,\nthe price had fallen at least two orders of magnitude,\nand within 10 years, was not much more expensive then\naspirin. Penicillin was also usable for an amazingly wide\nclass of infections.\n\nCentoxin is a drug that is not passing FDA approval. It promised\namazing results for Toxic shock, a rapidly fatal disease.\nIt consumed enormous amounts of funding in testing and\ndevelopement, However it works less then 1 in 5 times\nof administration and costs $2,000 per administration\nwith no promise of any reduction in manufacturing cost.\nThe drug thus costs $10,000 per useful case, and is\nimplicated in a slight increase in mortality for some\npatients.\n\nI would not dare to compare the shuttle to Pennicillin,\nbut to centoxin.", "\nHow long ago was this? When I said you'd get counselling, I meant if\nyou did it now. Long ago, practices varied and agencies had to gear\nup to provide the counselling.\n\n\nGood for her. What we don't need is everyone suing community service\nagencies that provide blood that people need. Testing is not fool proof.\nThe fact that he got AIDS from a transfusion (if he really did) does\nnot mean the Red Cross screwed up. Prior to 1983 or so, there wasn't\na good test and a lot of bad blood got through. This wasn't the fault\nof the Red Cross. When did he get the transfusions?\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "\nIn the kind I have made I used a Lite sour cream instead of yogurt. May not\nbe as good for you, but I prefer the taste. A few small bits of cuke in\naddition to the grated cuke may also finish the sauce off nicely.\n\n", "\nAll your friend really has to do is find a Registered Dietician(RD). While \nmost work in hospitals and clinics, many major cities will have RD's who \nare in \"private practice\" so to speak. Many physicans will refer their \npatients with Crohn's disease to RD's for dietary help. If you can get \nyour friend's physician to make a referral, medical insurance should pay for \nthe RD's services just like the services of a physical therapist. The \nbetter medical insurance plans will cover this but even if your friend's \nplan doesn't, it would be well worth the cost to get on a good diet to \ncontrol the intestinal discomfort and help the intestinal lining heal.\nCrohn's disease is an inflammatory disease of the intestinal lining and \nlipoxygenase inhibitors may help by decreasing leukotriene formation but \nI'm not aware of tea or turmeric containing lipoxygenase inhibitors. For \nbad inflammation, steroids are used but for a mild case, the side effects \nare not worth the small benefit gained by steroid use. Upjohn is developing \na new lipoxygenase inhibitor that should greatly help deal with \ninflammatory diseases but it's not available yet.", "\n\tHuman infants do have bown fat deposits while adult humans are\nbelieved not to have brown fat.\n\tAlso while brown fat may play an important role in rousing\nhibernators, it is definitely not limited to hibernating animals -- it\nis a common energy source for nonshivering thermogenesis.\n", ": > Does anyone know of any studies done on the long-term health effects of a\n: > man's vasectomy on his female partner?\n: > \n: > ...\n: I've heard of NO studies, but speculation:\n\n: Why on _earth_ would there be any effect on women's health? That's about \n: the most absurd idea I've heard since Ted Kaldis's claim that no more than \n: 35,000 people would march on Washington.\n\n: Ok, _one_ point: Greatly reduced chance of pregnancy. But that's it.\n\n: --Josh\n\nWell, there might be another: Since I'm sterile my wife can enjoy sex \nwithout fear of getting pregnant.", "\nThe only fungus I know of from California is Coccidiomycosis. I\nhadn't heard that it attacked bone. It attacks lung and if you\nare especially unlucky, the central nervous system. Nothing new\nabout it. It's been around for years. THey call it \"valley\nfever\", since it is found in the inland valleys, not on the coast.\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "\nDo I assume correctly from the above aricle that your mother has a historyy\nof cancer? I was just wondeing, since you mentioned thhat she has an\noncologist.\n\nA bone scan is a nuclear scan. Thperson receivving the scan is gven a\ndose of a radioactive tracer, and an imaging device is used to track the\ndistribution of the tracer wwithin the body. The tracer is usually given\nintravenously. (IV) This means that the physician or his assistant will\ninsert a needle into a vein and inject medicine into the vein. \n\nAfter a few minutes has passed for the tracer to circulate through the\nbody, the person is scanned with an imaging device to detect high \nconcentrations of the tracer. The radiologist or doctor is looking for\nareas that take up more of the radioactive tracer or less of it.\n\nAs far as pain, the only pain comes from the needle stick that is required\nto start the IV line.\n\nWhat the doctor is probably looking for are changes in the bones that may\nhave resulted from cancer. This is also why I was wondering if your mother\nhas had cancer, since cancer can spread from one site and wind up in the\nskeletal system.\n\nI hope I have answered some of your questions. Feel free to e-mail me if\nyou have more questions related to the bone scan or anything else related\nto your mother's care. I'm a newly graduated nurse, and I enjoy sharing\ninformation with other people to help them understand things that they did\nnot know about before.\n\nMy thoughts are with you both.", "\nSome recent postings remind me that I had read about risks \nassociated with the barbecuing of foods, namely that carcinogens \nare generated. Is this a valid concern? If so, is it a function \nof the smoke or the elevated temperatures? Is it a function of \nthe cooking elements, wood or charcoal vs. lava rocks? I wish \nto know more. Thanks. \n\n\n \n", "Hmmm. These don't look like references to me. Is passive-aggressive\nbehavior associated with weight rebound? :-)", "The article that follows was taken from the Wednesday, April 14, 1993\nissue of USA Today (\"Drug Use Up Among U.S. eighth-graders\" by Mike\nSnider, p. 6D).\n\n A new national survey says drugs are easier to get, more teens are\n using them and fewer deem drug use as risky. \n\n For the last two years, government officials have trumpeted results\n from the National High School Survey as signs that the drug war is\n being won. But this year, officials are retreating - drug use by\n eighth-graders has risen, according to the survey of 50,000 students\n nationwide.\n\n Possible reason for the increase: more experimentation. Why? If\n drug use dropped during the '80s, eventually some students will\n have fewer \"drug-using contemporaries\" who act as examples of\n substance abuse's drawbacks, says social psychologist Lloyd Johnston,\n one of the survey authors. Each new wave of youths \"must be given\n the knowledge, skills and motivation to resist using these drugs,\"\n Johnston says.\n\n This type of resurgence \"is possible,\" says Eileen Shiff, author of\n \"Experts Advise Parents\" (Delta, $14.95). But that's not the issue,\n she says. The prevalence of alcohol and drugs among teens today\n could result in more alcoholic adults decades from now.\n\n Aggravating the problem: baby boomer parents - who experimented with\n drugs and alcohol as teens - trying to be friends, not parents, to\n their children. \"I've even seen parents serving kegs of beer\" to\n their underage kids and friends, Shiff says. For a recent graduation,\n Shiff and other parents organized an all-night, \"lock-in\" party where\n no booze or drugs were allowed. \"We need to fulfill that parental\n role, otherwise the peer group takes over,\" she says.\n\n Officials may \"talk about the war on drugs, but they really haven't\n done anything that I've seen,\" says Suzanne Linkous, Scottsdale,\n Ariz., 16, a volunteer who talks with teens about drugs, dating and\n other issues on a peer counseling and suicide hot line. Linkous, a\n member of USA Today's Teen Panel, says \"there's always going to be\n experimentation\" with drugs.\n\n A real war on drugs could be waged \"education-wise,\" she says. But\n \"some don't want to give kids the facts. They think it will give\n them ideas; it's the same with birth control. I think you should\n give the kids the information or have it accessible\" through classes,\n pamphlets and speakers, she says.\n\n Education efforts need to start as soon as kids get in school - in\n kindergarten, says Dallas Owens, 17, teen panelist from Miami Shores,\n Fla. \"I remember in kindergarten, I used to see (drugs). I think\n kids in the 10th and 12th grades have already made up their minds\n (about using drugs),\" he says.\n\n Scare tactics in public service announcements aren't working; only\n one commercial has gotten it right, he says. The commercial opens\n with two \"good-looking girls\" in the restroom talking about having\n no prom date. Then they take a hit off a joint. \"That hits home\n because it's not attractive,\" he says. \"You can't be doing drugs if\n you want somebody to like you.\"\n\n\n Adolescents' choices\n\n Drugs used by eighth graders in the last month:\n Estimated, per 100 students\n 1991 1992 Pct. chg.\n Alcohol 25.1 26.1 +4%\n Cigarettes 14.3 15.5 +8%\n Marijuana 3.2 3.7 +16% \n Amphetamines 2.6 3.3 +27%\n LSD 0.6 0.9 +50%\n Cocaine 0.5 0.7 +40%\n Crack 0.3 0.5 +67%\n\n Source: University of Michigan Institute for Social Research,\n 1993 report\n\n\nScott Kennedy, Brewer and Patriot", "\n\nNo, just a little anger. Normally I don't rip people's lips off, except\nwhen my candida has overcolonized and I become: \"Fungus Man\"! :^)\n\nJon\n\n-- \n\nCharter Member --->>> INFJ Club.", "\nIf she is having problems with fresh vegetables, the guess is that there\nis some obstruction of the intestine. Without knowing more it is not\npossible to say whether the obstruction is permanent due to scarring,\nor temporary due to swelling of inflammed intestine. In general, there are\nno dietary limitations in patients with Crohn's except as they relate\nto obstruction. There is no evidence that any foods will bring on \nrecurrence of Crohn's. It is important to distinguish recurrence from\nrecurrent symptoms. A physician would think of new inflammation as \nrecurrence, while pains from raw veggies just imply a narrowing of the\nintestine. \n\nYour friend should look into membership in the Crohn's and Colitis \nFoundation of America. 1-800-932-2423\n\nGood luck to your friend.", "\n\n\nMy 6 year son is so plagued. Lots of vaseline up his nose each night seems \nto keep it under control. But let him get bopped there, and he'll recur for \ndays! Also allergies, colds, dry air all seem to contribute. But again, the \nvaseline, or A&D ointment, or neosporin all seem to keep them from recurring.\n", "\nMy ENT doctor told me that it is not uncommon for the wife to get a vaginal\nyeast infection after the husband takes antibiotics. In fact this recently\nhappened to my wife. Explanation is that the antibiotics kill the yeast's\ncompetition, they then thrive and increased yeast around the penis spread\nthe infection during intercourse. I was on ceclor for 30 days, then my wife\ngot the yeast.", "Need info on Circumcision, medical cons and pros\n\n\nI'm very surprised that medical schools still push routine circumcision\nof newborn males on the population. Since your friend is not a man, she\ncan't imagine what it's like to have a penis, much less a foreskin. I\nguess if American medicine did an artistic job of circumcising every\nmale, then the visual result would be somewhat more natural in\nappearance...", "\nI decided to come back and amend this so it quotes me and has added\ncomments...\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nbefore you had a pat of butter, now you need a medium apple (probably microwave\nthe body will make fat out of carbohydrates if it needs them. Third, your\nbody, like most peoples, wasn't bred to live on a high fat, modern diet.\nIf you read texts about ancient and primative people you will read about\nthe luxury of eating fat, how people enjoyed it. This was because it was so\nrare. Even cows didn't put out nearly the amount of butterfat in milk that\nthey do now. \n\n\n\n\nare pregnant. If you are lucky you can work on getting rid of it after the\nbaby. (It is said that doctors have less gallbadder surgery than the rest\nof the population, a good part of it is that they are willing to do the\ndieting, etc that helps them avoid surgery. Also, I don't think the surgery\nlets a person go back to eating a high fat diet. ) \n\n", "tes:\nrites:\n's\nn\n\nProbably because more people have access to alchohol. It IS LEGAL you know.\n\n\n\nOf course, this kid would be much better off selling crack to his neighborhood \nand helping in its demise.\n\n\nAnd if those drugs were legal, the neighborhood could legally go to hell.\n\n\nAnd if we made murder legal, we would put an end to murder as a crime.\n\n\nWhat??????\n\n\nSo you are saying crack babies who are that way legally are okay?\n\n\nYou can't even walk down the street at night alone in America because of drugs.\nFreedom my ass.", "A friend of mine has been diagnosed with Psoriatic Arthritis, as a result of\ntrauma sustained in a car accident several years ago. The psoriasis is under\ncontrol but the arthritis part of the illness is not.\n\nAnsaid (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory) worked pretty well for three years but\nisn't helping much now. My friend is now taking Meclomen (another NSAID) but\nthis isn't helping control the pain at all. In the past two months my friend\nhas also started taking Azulfadine along with the NSAID medicines, but the\neffects of the combined drugs aren't supposed to be realized for several months.\n\nAs a result of the pain, my friend is having problems sleeping. Staying in\none position too long is an ordeal. Another major contributor to pain is that\ntendonitis has now developed (left thumb and hand with numbness at the base of\nthe palm; bottom of feet; shoulders and outer thighs). The tendonitis is\nquite painful yet my friend's doctor has not recommended any form of treatment\nto relieve it.\n\nThe latest twist is that the doctor has dropped the anti-inflammatories and is\nnow recommending Prednisone. The hope is that the Prednisone will relieve some\nof the pain from the tendonitis.\n\nMy friend is a 41 year old male who feels like he's 80 (his words, not mine).\n\n\nIf anyone is aware of any new treatments for Psoriatic Arthritis, alternative\ncourses of action, support groups or literature on it, I would be extremely\ngrateful if you could e-mail to me. If anyone is interested, I'll post a\nsummary to this newsgroup.", "What exactly are knots, those sore, tight spots in your muscles?\nIn certain kinds of massage, people try and break up these knots; it this\nreally helpful?\n", "=Surprise surprise, different people react differently to different things. One\n=slightly off the subject case in point. My brother got stung by a bee. I know\n=he is allergic to bee stings, but that his reaction is severe localized\n=swelling, not anaphylactic shock. I could not convince the doctors of that,\n=however, because that's not written in their little rule book.\n\nOf course, bee venom isn't a single chemical. Could be your brother is\nreacting to a different component than the one that causes anaphylactic shock\nin other people.\n\nSimilarly, Chinese food isn't just MSG. There are a lot of other ingredients\nin it. Why, when someone eats something with lots of ingredients they don't\nnormally consume, one of which happens to be MSG, do they immediately conclude\nthat any negative reaction is to the MSG?\n\n=I would not be surprised in the least to find out the SOME people have bad\n=reactions to MSG, including headaches, stomachaches and even vomiting.\n\nI'd be surprised if some of these reactions weren't due to other ingredients.\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nCarl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL", "Does anyone know of any studies done on the long-term health effects of a\nman's vasectomy on his female partner?\n\nI've seen plenty of study results about vasectomy's effects on men's health,\nbut what about women? \n\nFor example, might the wife of a vasectomized man become more at risk for,\nsay, cervical cancer? Adverse effects from sperm antibodies? Changes in the\nvagina's pH? Yeast or bacterial infections?\n\nOutside of study results, how about informed speculation?\n\nThanks in advance for your help!", "\nIt can suppress secretion of prolactin. Is useful in cases of galactorrhea.\nSome adenomas of the pituitary secret too much.\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "From: harelb@math.cornell.edu (misc.activism.progressive co-moderator)\nSubject: FCUS/HEALTH: How U.S. compares... Children/Elderly in Poverty\n\nFCUS/HEALTH: How U.S. compares... Children/Elderly in Poverty\n\n ================================================================== \n Percentage of children and elderly living in poverty 1984-1987:(3) \n ================================================================== \n\n================================================= \n CHILDREN ELDERLY \nCOUNTRY IN POVERTY IN POVERTY \n================================================= \nUnited States 20.4 10.9 \nCanada 9.3 2.2 \nAustralia 9.0 4.0 \nUnited Kingdom 7.4 5.2 \nFrance 4.6 4.5 \nNetherlands 3.8 3.4 \nGermany 2.8 2.8 \nSweden 1.6 4.3 \n\nSource: Timothy M. Smeeding, \"U.S. Poverty and Income Security Policy in a \nCross National Perspective, October 1991, Luxembourg, October, 1991, \nLuxembourg Income Study, working paper 70. \n\n******************************************************************\n\n===================================== \nOf the 19 Western Industrial Nations: \n===================================== \n\nWestern Industrial Countries having a National Health Insurance plan \nproviding universal coverage: \n\nAustralia YES Sweden YES \nCanada YES United Kingdom YES \nDenmark YES Austria YES \nFinland YES France YES \nIreland YES Switzerland YES \nItaly YES Spain YES \nJapan YES Belgium YES \nNew Zealand YES Germany YES \nNetherlands YES Norway YES \n\n - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - \n\nWestern Industrial Countries NOT having a National Health Insurance \nplan providing universal coverage. \n\n\nUnited States NO \n\n - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - \n\n******************************************************************\n\nFrom page 74 of: \n\n - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - \n_We're Number One, Where America Stands -- and Falls -- in the New \nWorld Order_ by Andrew L Shapiro. \n\nNew York, May 1992, Vintage Books, a division of Random House. \n$10 paperback. ISBN 0-679-73893-2 \n - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - \n[Transcribed by jhwoodar@well.sf.ca.us (Joe Woodard)] \n\n ``America is becoming a land of private greed and public squalor. \n This book is an indispensable road map through the wreckage. The \n facts it reveals will startle you. They may depress you. But \n ideally they'll fire you up to help rebuild this nation.'' ", "\nRutin is a bioflavonoid, compounds found (among other places) in the\nrinds of citrus fruits. These have been popular, especially in Europe,\nto treat \"capillary fragility\", and seemingly in even more extreme cases--\na few months ago, a friend was visiting from Italy, and he said that he'd\nhad hemorrhoids, but his pharmacist friend sold him some pills. Incredulously,\nI asked to look at them, and sure enough these contained rutin as the active\ningredient. I probably destroyed the placebo effect from my skeptical\nsputtering. I have no idea how he's doing hemorrhoid-wise these days.\nThe studies which attempted to look at the effect of these compounds in\nhuman disease and nutrition were never very well controlled, so the\nreports of positive results with them is mostly anecdotal.\n\nThis stuff is pretty much non-toxic, and probably inexpensive, so there's\nlittle risk of trying it, but I wouldn't expect much of a result.\n", "\nThe answer to your first question is rather difficult to answer without\ndoing a lot of autopsies. The second question is something that's been\nknown for some time. It appears that within about 15 years of quitting\nsmoking a person's risk for developing lung cancer drops to that of the\nperson who never smoked (assuming you do not get lung cancer in the\ninterim!). The risk to someone who smoked the equivalent of a pack per\nday for 40 years is around 20 times as high as a non-smoker. Still\nrather low overall, but significant. Personally, I'd be more concerned\nabout heart disease secondary to smoking -- it's much more common, and\neven a small increase in risk is significant there.\n", "\nMark, this is the most reasonable post that I've seen in Sci. Med. on the \ntopic of Colonic Flushing. I'm in a profession that uses manipulation(a \nvery refined form of massage) to treat various human diseases. Proving \nthat manipulation works has been extremely difficult(as the MD's delight in \npointing out). The Osteopathic Profession seems to be making better \nprogress than the chiropractors in proving(scientifically) that their \ntechingues work. The JAOA recently had a study on the use of manipulation \nto relieve mensrual cramps in women with results that were as good or \nbetter than drug treatment(using physiological measurements, and not just \nthe woman's preception of improvement). This study was hailed by the JAOA \neditors as the turning point in the profession's long struggle to prove \nitself to the medical community.\n\nI'm currently trying to get the AOA(American Osteopathic Association) which \nhas supported most of the Osteopathic research in the U.S. to also support \nnutrition education and research. I've pointed out, in a grant proposal, \nthat the founder of Osteopathic Medicine(A.T. Still) embraced both diet and \nmanipulation to set himself apart from the MD's of his time who were pushing \nonly drugs(Still was himself an MD who got real dissillusioned with drugs \nduring his service in the Civil War). He decided that there had to be a \nbetter way to treat human disease since he saw the cure(drugs) as being \nworse than the disease. Through his many years of study of the human body, \nhe developed his manipulation techniques that he then taught to his \nstudents in the U.S's first Osteopathic Medical school. We now have 17.\nStill used manipulation to treat(and also diagnose) human disease but he \nused diet to prevent human disease. I'm trying to get the Osteopathic \nProfession to return to it's roots and beat the MD's to the punch(so to \nspeak). Both DO's and MD's in current medical practice have very little \nunderstanding of how diet affects human health. This has to change.\n\nMartin Banschbach, Ph.D.\nProfessor of Biochemistry and Chairman\nDepartment of Biochemistry and Microbiology\nOSU COllege of Osteopathic Medicine", "I'm interested in this from the other angle: what antihistamine can I\ntake at bedtime for relief of allergies, with the assurance that its\nsedative effect will have completely worn off by the next morning, but\npreferably with the anti-allergy effect lasting longer?\n\nI'm thinking mainly of OTC products. Which has the least duration of\nsedative action: Benadryl, Chlor-Trimeton, or what?\nNote that I'm asking about duration, not intensity.", "\nNo, that's not how it works.\n\n\nThis may be through a different mechanism.\n\n\nTenderizing beef involves sprinking or marinading it in papain, an enzyme.\n\"Meat tenderizer\" packets might contain papain and MSG and seasonings, but\nMSG doesn't act as a tenderizer.\n", "\n \"May your skin stick to a frozen bed pan\"\n \"May your apple juice be mistakenly drawn from the urinalisys\nlab\"\n", "hi all, Ive applied for the class of 93 at quite a number of schools (20)\nand have gotten 13 rejects, 4 interviews and 3 no responses.\nAny one know when the heck these people send out their acceptance letters?\nAccording to the med school admissions book theyre supposed to send out\nthe number of their class in acceptances by mid March. Whats going on... I\nam losing my sanity checking my mailbox every day.\n\nAlso does anyone have some useful alternatives in case i dont get in, i\nkind of looked into Chiropractic and Podiatry but they really dont\ninterest me. Thanks.\n", "nnget 93122.1300541\n\nAnd where do you advise people to turn for cancer information?\n\n\n Most\n\nIt seems to me you've offered a circular refutation of Moss's organization. Who\nhas shown the information in the latest book of PAC to be questionable? Could\nit be those 'regulatory' agencies and medical industries which Moss is showing\nto be operating with *major* vested interests. Whether one believes that these\nvested interests are real or not, or whether or not they actually shape medical\nresearch is a seperate argument. If one sees a possibility, however, that these\ninterests exist, then the 'fact' that some of the information put out by PAC\nhas been refuted by the medical industry doesn't hold much weight.\n\nAs for the ineffectiveness of antineoplasteons, the fact that the NIH didn't\nfind them effective doesn't make much sense here. Of course they didn't! I\ntend to have more faith in the word of the patients who are now alive after\nbeing told years ago that they would be dead of cancer soon. They are fighting\nlike hell to keep that clinic open, and they credit his treatment with their\nsurvival. Anyone who looks at the NIH's record for investigation of 'alterna-\ntive' cancer therapies will easily see that they have a strange knack for find-\ning relatively cheap and nontoxic therapies dangerous or useless.", "\nNo doubt the sci.med* folks are getting out their flamethrowers. I'm\nrather certain that the information you got was not medical literature\nin the accepted academic/scientific journals. So, the righteous among\nthem will no doubt jump on that.\n\nAlso, insofar as it doesn't conform to the accepted medical presumption\nthat it just doesn't matter what you eat, and that we can think of the\nGI tract as a black box in which nothing ever goes wrong (except for\nmaybe cancer and ulcers), the righteous will no doubt jump on that too.\n\nThen there'll be the ones who call your doctor a raving quack, even\nthough he, like Linus Pauling, is lucid and robust well into his\nnineties--but nevermind about that. He shouldn't charge for his\nequipment and supplies, since they're no doubt not approved by the\nFDA. Of course, with FDA approval an MD or pharmaceutical company can\ncharge whatever they can get for such safe and effective treatments as\nthalidomide. But nevermind about that either.\n\nUnfortunately, you dared to step into the sacred turf of Net.Medical.\nDiscussion without a credential and without understanding that the\nrighteous among them will make certain that you are suitably denounced\nbefore dismissing you as a fool.\n\nBut maybe somebody without such a huge chip on their shoulder will\nsend you some reasonable responses by e-mail.\n\n1/2 ;^) \n\n1/2 ;^(\n\nOh yes, I did have a point. A few years ago an MD with a thriving\npractice in a very wealthy part of Silicon Valley once recommended that\nI take such treatments to clear up a skin condition. (Not through his\noffice, I might add.) Although I'm sure that's not conclusive, it was\nsure an unusual prescription!", "Hello all,\n\n There is a small problem a friend of mine is experiencing and I \nwould appreciate any help at all with it.\n\nMy friend has been diagnosed as having a severe case of depression requiring \nantidepressants for a cure. The main problem is the side effects of these. \nSo far she has been prescribed Prozac, Aurorix, and tryptanol all with \ndifferent but unbearable side effects.\n\nThe Prozac gave very bad anxiety/jitters and insomina, it was impossible to \nsit still for more than a minute or so.\n\nThe Aurorix whilst having a calming effect, all feelings were lost and the \nbody co-ordination was similar to a drunken person. Her brain was clouded \nover.\n\nThe tryptanol gave tremors in the legs and panic attacks along with unco- \nordination occurred. She did not know what she was doing as her brain was \n\"closed down\".\n\nHas anyone had similar problems and/or have any suggestions as to the next \nstep?\n\nThankyou in advance.", "Harvested to order?\n", "A person with a Schatzki's ring (a membrane partially blocking the \nespphagus) has worsening dysphagia (difficulty swallowing) and the \ndoctor proposes dilation by balloow or bougie (using an inflatable\nballoon to rupture the ring or a rubber hose to push through it. \n\nQuestion: is balloon dilation safe, common, and indicated? It sounds\npretty invasive.\n\nYes, this is a common and safe procedure. The majority of Schatzki's\nrings described by x-ray, however, wnd up being due to inflammation\ninstead of the congenital Schatzki's ring. Occassionally a cancer\nmasquerades as a ring. You should have the endoscopy to see if it\nis due to the heartburn, and if so, you will need treatment for the\nheartburn ong term. The balloon dilation is an alternative to cutting\nopen your chest and cutting out a section of the esophagus, so dilation\nis not at all invasive, considering the alternative. \n\n\n3 to 4 years, and once was symptomatic from them, with some\nlightheadedness.\nHe is young, (30-ish), thin and in good\n\nI' not an expert on heart problems, but PVC's are common and have been\novertreated in the past. My personal experience, and I have the same \nhistory an build you do (related to the heart, that is), is that my PVC's\ncome and go, with some months causing anxiety. Taking on more fluids\nseems to help, and they seem worse in the summer. Remember that a slow \nheart rate will allow more PVC's to be apparent, so perhaps it is an \nindication of a healthy cardiac system (but ask an expert about that\nlast point, especially)\n\nGood luck, hope we don't die of arrhythmias. (God, what a happy thought)", "=Which was why I started checking EVERY time I got sick. And EVERY\n=time I got sick MSG was somehow involved in one of the food products.\n\nWhich points up the \"studies\" made by amateurs: Did you ALSO check EVERY TIME\nYOU DID *NOT* get sick? \"No,\" you say? Why not check every thing you eat when\nyou don't get sick and find out how much MSG you're actually consuming?\n\n=> All that's needed now is that final step, a double-blind study done\n=> on humans. There isn't even an ethical question about \"possible\n=> harm\", as this is a widely used and approved food additive.\n=\n=But - some say that only 2% of the population has a problem with MSG -\n=some say it's more like 20% - but let's say that it's 5%. How many\n=people would have to be tested that would have a problem? Also - I\n=KNOW I have a problem with it, and I wouldn't VOLUNTEER for a test.\n\nIf you knew enough about what the test was about to decide that you didn't want\nto participate because it involved MSG, you'd've already made yourself\nineligible (since MSG IS detectable by taste). How can anybody be so clueless\nas to what double blind studies are all about?\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nCarl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL", "My mother has been advised to have a bone scan performed? What is this\nprocedure for, and is it painful? She's been having leg and back pain\nwhich her GP said was sciatica. Her oncologist listened to her symptoms\nand said that it didn't sound like sciatica, and she should get a bone\nscan. ", "\n\n\nIf you culture out the spirochete, it is virtually 100% certain\nthe patient has Lyme. I suppose you could have contamination\nin an exceptionally sloppy lab, but normally not. There are no\nfalse positives.\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "\nI had a similar reaction to Chinese food but came to a completly different\nconclusion. I've eaten Chinese food for ages and never had problems. I went\nwith some Chinese Malaysian friends to a swanky Chinses rest. and they ordered\nlots of stuff I had never seen before. The only thing I can remember of that\nmeal was the first course, scallops served in the shell with a soy-type sauce.\nI thought, \"Well, I've only had scallops once and I was sick after but that\ncould have been a coincidence\". That night as I sat on the bathroom floor,\nsweating and emptying my stomach the hard way, I decided I would never touch\nanother scallop. I may not be allergic but I don't want to take the chance.", "KS> From: keith@actrix.gen.nz (Keith Stewart)\nKS>My wife has become interested through an acquaintance in Post-Polio Syndrome\nKS>This apparently is not recognised in New Zealand and different symptons ( eg\nKS>chest complaints) are treated separately. Does anone have any information\n\nI'm not sure that this condition is \"recognised\" anywhere (in the\nsense of a disease with diagnostic criteria, clear boundaries\nbetween it and other diseases, unique pathologic or physiologic\nfeatures, etc), but here goes with what many neurologists agree on.\n\nPost-polio syndrome patients have evidence of motor neuron disease\nby clinical examination, EMG, and muscle biopsy. The abnormalities\nare mostly chronic (due to old polio) but there is evidence of\nongoing deterioration. Clinically, the patients complain of\ndeclining strength and endurance with everyday motor tasks.\nMusculoskeletal pain is a nearly universal feature that doubtless\ncontributes to the impaired performance. The examination shows\nmuscle weakness and atrophy. The EMG shows evidence of old\ndenervation with reinnervation (giant and long-duration motor unit\naction potentials) *and* evidence of active denervation\n(fibrillation potentials). The biopsy also shows old denervation\nwith reinnervation (fiber-type grouping) *and* evidence of active\ndenervation (small, angulated fibers with dense oxidative enzyme\nstaining) - but curiously, little or no group atrophy.\n\nPost-polio patients do not have ALS. In ALS, there is clinically\nevident deterioration from one month to the next. In post-polio,\nthe patients are remarkably stable in objective findings from one\nyear to the next. Of course, there are patients who had polio\nbefore who develop genuine ALS, but ALS is no more common among\npolio survivors than among people who never had polio.\n\nThe cause of post-polio syndrome is unknown. There is little\nevidence that post-polio patients have active polio virus or\ndestructive immunologic response to virus antigen.\n\nThere is no solid evidence that patients with post-polio have\nanything different happening to the motor unit (anterior horn cells,\nmotor axons, neuromuscular junctions, and muscle fibers) than\npatients with old polio who are not complaining of deterioration.\nBoth groups can have the same EMG and biopsy findings. The reason\nfor these \"acute\" changes in a \"chronic\" disease (old polio) is\nunknown. Possibly spinal motor neurons (that have reinnervated huge\nnumbers of muscle fibers) start shedding the load after several\nyears.\n\nThere are a couple of clinical features that distinguish post-polio\nsyndrome patients from patients with old polio who deny\ndeterioration. The PPS patients are more likely to have had severe\npolio. The PPS patients are *much* more likely to complain of pain.\nThey also tend to score higher on depression scales of\nneuropsychologic tests.\n\nMy take on this (I'm sure some will disagree): after recovery from\nsevere polio there can be abnormal loading on muscles, tendons,\nligaments, bones, and joints, that leads to inflammatory and/or\ndegenerative conditions affecting these structures. The increasing\npain, superimposed on the chronic (but unchanging) weakness, leads\nto progressive impairment of motor performance and ADL. I am\nperhaps biased by personal experience of having never seen a PPS\npatient who was not limited in some way by pain. I do not believe\nthat PPS patients have more rapid deterioration of motor units than\nnon-PPS patients (i.e., those with old polio of similar severity but\nwithout PPS complaints).", "I sometimes see OTC preparations for muscle aches/back aches that\ncombine aspirin with a diuretic. The idea seems to be to reduce\ninflammation by getting rid of fluid. Does this actually work? ", "\n\n\n\nYour doctor is right. It is best to do nothing, besides taking some pain\nmedication initially. Some patients don't like this and expect, or demand,\nto have something done. In these cases some physicians will \"tape\" the \npatient (put a lot of heavy adhesive tape around the chest), or prescribe\nan elastic binder. All this does is make it harder to breath, but the\npatient doesn't feel cheated, because soemthing is being done about the\nproblem. Either way, the end results are the same.\n\n==================================", "Can anyone out there tell me the difference between a \"persistent\" disease\nand a \"chronic\" one? For example, persistent hepatitis vs chronic\nhepatitis.", "\n<: ....other good stuff about the Drs idiocy\n\nOk, much as I hate to do it, here I am posting an EVEN BETTER \"Dr. Idiot\"\nstory.\n\n\nI was in my 18th hour of labor, had been pushing for 4.5 hours and was\nexhausted. My OB and I decided to go for a csec. The OB called in\nthe anesthisiologist (sp?) and asked him to help prep me for surgery.\n\nAFTER, watching me go through a couple contractions, the anes (or anus as\nI like to refer to him) said, \"Well, I am off duty now.\" (still staring\nbetween my legs at that). The OB asked to go call whomever it was who\nwas on duty and ask him/her how long it would take...and if it was going\nto take more than a few minutes, to please stay even though he was off duty.\n\nThe anes. went out, supposedly to call the on-call anes. In a couple of\nminutes the nurse came running in to tell the OB that the anes. had left\nwithout even trying to get ahold of the on-call. It was the only time \nduring my labor that I swore. The on-call anes. took 20 minutes to get\nthere.\n\nCome to find out, the anes. had only just gone off duty (about 2 minutes\nbefore) and technically was supposed to stay in the hospital until the\nnext on-call got there. Good thing for all of us (especially him) that\nit was not a critical emergency. But boy would I love to knock that\nfellow's ouchie places ...just to let him be in pain a\nfew little minutes.\n\n\n\nI have run into \"Dr. Idiots\", \"Mechanic Idiots\", \"Clerk Idiots\" and \"Etc.\nIdiots\" in my time, but this fellow I would like to have words with.\n", "Does anybody know of any information regarding the implementaion of total\n quality management, quality control, quality assurance in the delivery of\n health care service. I would appreciate any information. If there is enough\ninterest, I will post the responses.\n Thank You\n Abhin Singla MS BioE, MBA, MD\n President AC Medcomp Inc\n", "I know that there is MSG sensitivity. When I eat foods with MSG I get\nvery thirsty and my hands swell and get a terrible itchy rash. I first\nexperienced this problem when I worked close to Chinatown and ate Chinese\nfood almost everyday for lunch. Now I can't tolerate MSG at all. I can\nnotice immediately when I have eaten any. I try to avoid MSG completely.\n\nInteresting fact though is that all three of my children started experiencing\nthe exact same rash on their hands. I couldn't understand why because I\ndon't MSG in cooking and we ask for no MSG when we do eat Chinese (I still\nlove it). After some investigation I knew that Oodles of Noodles where\none of their favorite foods. One of the main ingredients in the flavor\npackets is MSG. Now I look at all labels. You would be surprised at\nplaces you find MSG.\n", "\nAll true. And all good points.\n\n\n\nWell, making a career out of it is a bit strong. I still believe\nthat doing your own research is very, very necessary. I would\nnot have progressed as much as I have today, unless I had spent\nthe many hours in Stanford's Med Library as I have done.\nAnd 5 years ago, it was clear that there was no medicine that \nwould help me. So should I have stopped searching. Thank\ngoodness I didn't. Now I found that there is indeed medicine\nthat helps me. \n\nI think that what you've said is kind of idealistic. That you\nwould go to one doctor, get a diagnosis, maybe get a second\nopinion, and then move on with your life.\nJust as an example... having seen 6 of the top specialists in \nthis field in the country, I have received 6 different diagnoses.\nThese are the top names, the ones that people come to from all over\nthe country. I have HAD to sort all of this out myself. Going\nto a support group (and in fact, HEADING that support group) was \nhelpful for a while, but after a point, I found it very\nunproductive. It was much more productive to do library research,\nmake phone calls and put together the pieces of the puzzle myself.\n\nA recent movie, Lorenzo's Oil, offers a perfect example of what\nI'm talking about. If you haven't seen it, you should. It's not\na put down of doctor's and neither is what I'm saying. Doctors are\nonly human and can only do so much. But there are those of us\nout here who are intelligent and able to sometimes find a missing\npiece of the puzzle that might have otherwise gone unnoticed.\n\nI guess I'm biased because dizziness is one of those weird things\nthat is still so unknown. If I had a broken arm, or a weak heart,\nor failing kidneys, I might not have the same opinion. That's because \nthose things are much more tangible and have much more concise \ndefinitions and treatments. With dizziness, you just have to\ndecide to live with it or decide to live with it while trying to\nfind your way out of it.\n\n\nI have chosen the latter.\n\n\nLinda\nlindae@netcom.netcom.com\n", "\nExtremely rare in humans. Usually so much else is involved you'd\njust have a mess to sort out. Birds do all vision in the tectum,\ndon't they? \n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "If the student has a kidney infection, she ought to be on antibiotics.\nKidney infections-- left untreated-- can cause permanent damage to\nthe kidneys. I was hospitalized with a kidney infection a while ago\nand I was very sick.", "\nWhat suburban kid would want to hold down a minimum wage job when there is so\nmuch more money to be made dealing drugs?\n\nYet, somehow, surburban kids do hold down minimum wage jobs. So do inner\ncity kids, when give the chance. Any reason you think that inner city kids\nare incapable of doing legitimate work?", "------------- cut here -----------------\ncall for employers to keep information about the HIV status of health-care \nworkers confidential. But doctors who know of an HIV-positive colleague who \nhas not sought advice must inform the employing authority and the appropriate \nprofessional regulatory body. The guidelines also emphasize the significance \nof notifying all patients on whom an invasive procedure has been done by an \ninfected health-care worker. A model letter to patients who have come into \ncontact with such an individual is provided, along with suggestions for \nhealth officials on how to deal with the media. In addition, a U.K. advisory \npanel on HIV infection in health-care workers has been formed to provide \nspecific occupational recommendations to those treating such patients. \n================================================================== \n\"Properties of an HIV 'Vaccine'\" Nature (04/08/93) Vol. 362, No. 6420, P. 504 \n(Volvovitz, Franklin and Smith, Gale) \n\n The questions raised by Moore et al. about recombinant gp160 envelope \nglycoprotein precursor from HIV-1 produced by MicroGeneSys are advantages \nrather than disadvantages, write Franklin Volvovitz and Gale Smith of \nMicroGeneSys in Meriden, Conn. Moore et al. says that gp160 in a baculovirus \nexpression system does not bind strongly to the CD4 receptor, and that this \nrecombinant gp160 does not stimulate the same antibodies as the HIV-1 virus \ndoes in natural infection. But vaccination with recombinant gp160 in \npatients infected with HIV-1 broadens HIV-1 specific envelope-directed immune \nresponses, including crossreactive antibodies to gp160 epitopes and CD4 and \nCD8 cytotoxic T-cell responses. Volvovitz and Smith claim that they never \nintended their gp160 molecule to be identical to the native protein. Antibody \nresponses against native HIV-1 proteins, including the types described by \nMoore et al., exist in nearly all AIDS patients but do not prevent \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 42\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\nprogression of HIV disease. In addition, the binding of gp120 or gp120-\nantibody complexes to CD4 has been shown to interfere with antigen specific \nactivation of CD4 cells and trigger programmed cell death in vitro, which \nmay contribute to the pathogenesis of HIV infection. The absence of CD4 \nbinding by the MicroGeneSys gp160 vaccine may therefore be viewed as an added \nsafety feature. Phase I studies have demonstrated stable CD4 counts, \nstimulation of cytotoxic T cells, and the suggestion of restoration of immune \nfunction. Based on these and other clinical results, MicroGeneSys gp160 was \nchosen by researchers at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden for the first \nphase III vaccine therapy studies, conclude Volvovitz and Smith. \n================================================================== \n\"HIV-1 Infection: Breast Milk and HIV-1 Transmission\" Lancet (04/10/93) Vol. \n341, No. 8850, P. 930 (Mok, Jacqueline) \n\n There are still more questions than answers regarding HIV-1-positive \nwomen breastfeeding their babies, writes Jacqueline Mok of the Lancet. The \nanti-infective properties of milk are well documented. While the numbers of \nleukocytes, concentrations of lactoferrin and IgA, and lymphocyte mitogenic \nactivity decline sharply during the first two to three months of lactation to \nbarely detectable levels, lactoferrin and IgA then increase from three to \ntwelve months, with 90 percent of total IgA in milk being secretory IgA. \nBreastfeeding protects infants against gastrointestinal and respiratory \nillnesses, in both normal and uninfected children born to HIV-positive \nmothers. The Italian National Registry of AIDS discovered that breastfed HIV-\n1 infected children had a longer median incubation time (19 months) than \nbottlefed infants (9.7 months). Breastfed children also had a slower \nprogression to AIDS. There is no agreement on which antibodies offer \nprotection against HIV-1 infection. Studies of the biological properties of \nmilk from 15 HIV-1 infected women showed the presence of IgG and IgA \nantibodies against envelope glycoproteins, as well as IgA antibodies against \ncore antigens. Binding of HIV-1 to the CD4 receptor can be inhibited by a \nhuman milk factor. In the developing world, where infectious disease and \nmalnutrition contribute significantly to infant mortality, breast milk is \nstill the best food for infants, regardless of the mother's HIV status. \nTransmission might be restricted by breastfeeding after colostrum and early \nmilk have been expressed and discarded. The possibility remains that breast \nmilk could protect the infant who is already infected with HIV at birth and \nmay even delay progression to AIDS, concludes Mok. \n================================================================== \n\"Absence of HIV Transmission From an Infected Dentist to His Patients\" Journal \nof the American Medical Association (04/14/93) Vol. 269, No. 14, P. 1802 \n(Dickinson, Gordon M. et al.) \n\n If universal precautions are practiced, the risk of HIV transmission \nfrom dentist to patient appears to be infinitesimal, write Gordon M. Dickinson \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 43\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\net al. of the University of Miami School of Medicine in Miami, Fla. The \nresearchers contacted all patients treated by a dentist with AIDS and \nattempts were made to contact all patients for HIV testing. Living patients \nwith newly detected HIV infection were interviewed, and DNA sequence analysis \nwas performed to compare genetic relatedness of their HIV to that of the \ndentist. Death certificates were obtained for deceased patients, and the \nmedical records of those with diagnoses suggestive of HIV disease or drug \nabuse and those dying under the age of 50 years were examined in detail. \nThere were 1,192 patients who had undergone 9,267 procedures, of whom 124 \nwere deceased. An examination of the death certificates of patients \nidentified five who had died with HIV infection, all of whom were either \nhomosexuals or IV-drug users. The researchers were able to detect 962 of the \nremaining 1,048 patients, and 900 agreed to be tested. HIV infection was \nreported in five of the 900 patients, including four who had clear evidence \nof risk factors for the disease. One patient who had only a single \nevaluation by the dentist denied high-risk behavior. Comparative DNA sequence \nanalysis showed that the viruses from the dentists and these five patients \nwere not closely related. The study suggests the potential for HIV \ntransmission from a general dentist to his patients is minimal in a setting \nin which universal precautions are strictly observed, conclude Dickinson et \nal. \n ================================================================ \n April 22, 1993 \n ================================================================ \n\"AIDS Patients are Susceptible to Recurrences of TB, Study Says\" Washington \nPost (04/22/93), P. A13 \n\n Tuberculosis can strike AIDS patients more than once, which makes the \nresurging health hazard harder to control, according to a study published in \ntoday's New England Journal of Medicine. People who contract TB usually \ndevelop an immunity that protects them if they are exposed to the bacteria \nagain. But a person whose immune system is depleted may not be able to fight \noff a new TB infection, doctors found. Peter M. Small of the Howard Hughes \nMedical Institute at Stanford University, director of the study, said that in \norder to protect against reinfection, it may be necessary for some people to \nuse TB medicines permanently. The study examined the genetic makeup of TB \nbacteria and how the germs changed over time in 17 patients at Kings County \nHospital in New York. \n================================================================ \n\"HIV-1 Infection: Breast Milk and HIV-1 Transmission\" Lancet (04/10/93) Vol. \n341, No. 8850, P. 930 (Mok, Jacqueline) \n\n There are still more questions than answers regarding HIV-1-positive \nwomen breastfeeding their babies, writes Jacqueline Mok of the Lancet. The \nanti-infective properties of milk are well documented. While the numbers of \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 44\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\nleukocytes, concentrations of lactoferrin and IgA, and lymphocyte mitogenic \nactivity decline sharply during the first two to three months of lactation to \nbarely detectable levels, lactoferrin and IgA then increase from three to \ntwelve months, with 90 percent of total IgA in milk being secretory IgA. \nBreastfeeding protects infants against gastrointestinal and respiratory \nillnesses, in both normal and uninfected children born to HIV-positive \nmothers. The Italian National Registry of AIDS discovered that breastfed HIV-\n1 infected children had a longer median incubation time (19 months) than \nbottlefed infants (9.7 months). Breastfed children also had a slower \nprogression to AIDS. There is no agreement on which antibodies offer \nprotection against HIV-1 infection. Studies of the biological properties of \nmilk from 15 HIV-1 infected women showed the presence of IgG and IgA \nantibodies against envelope glycoproteins, as well as IgA antibodies against \ncore antigens. Binding of HIV-1 to the CD4 receptor can be inhibited by a \nhuman milk factor. In the developing world, where infectious disease and \nmalnutrition contribute significantly to infant mortality, breast milk is \nstill the best food for infants, regardless of the mother's HIV status. \nTransmission might be restricted by breastfeeding after colostrum and early \nmilk have been expressed and discarded. The possibility remains that breast \nmilk could protect the infant who is already infected with HIV at birth and \nmay even delay progression to AIDS, concludes Mok. \n================================================================ \n\"HIV and the Aetiology of AIDS\" Lancet (04/10/93) Vol. 341, No. 8850, P. 957 \n(Duesberg, Peter) \n\n Because there is no proof that HIV is the cause of AIDS, the hypothesis \nthat drug use leads to AIDS will hopefully become a hindrance to the \nphysiologically (AZT) and psychologically (positive AIDS test) toxic public \nhealth initiatives, writes Peter Duesberg of the University of California--\nBerkeley. In the Lancet's March 13 issue, Schechter et al. call Duesberg's \nhypothesis that injected and orally used recreational drugs and AZT lead to \nAIDS, \"a hindrance to public health initiatives.\" However, their hypothesis \nthat HIV is the cause of AIDS has not attained any public health benefits. \nThe U.S. government spends $4 billion annually, but no vaccine, no therapy, \nno prevention, and no AIDS control have resulted from work on this \nhypothesis. Schechter et al. conclude that HIV has a key role in CD4 \ndepletion and AIDS based on epidemiological correlations with antibodies \nagainst HIV and with self reported recreational drug use among homosexuals \nfrom Vancouver. However, their survey neglects to disprove Duesberg's drug-\nAIDS hypothesis, because it does not provide controls--i.e., confirmed drug-\nfree AIDS cases--and because it does not quantify drug use and ignores AZT \nuse altogether. To refute Duesberg's hypothesis Schechter would have to \nproduce a controlled study demonstrating that over a period of up to 10 years \nHIV-positive patients who use recreational drugs or AZT or both have the same \nAIDS risks as positives who do not do so. The 10 year period is claimed by \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 45\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\nproponents of the HIV hypothesis to be the time needed for HIV to cause AIDS. \nAlternatively, they could show that HIV-free individuals who have used drugs \nfor 10 years never get AIDS-defining illnesses, concludes Duesberg. \n================================================================ \n\"Rapid Decline of CD4+ Cells After IFNa Treatment in HIV-1 Infection\" \nLancet (04/10/93) Vol. 341, No. 8850, P. 959 (Vento, Sandro et al.) \n\n Interferon (IFN), which induces autoantibodies and autoimmune diseases \nin some settings, may hasten CD4 T-cell loss in some HIV-1 infected \nindividuals through the amplification of harmful \"autoimmune\" reactions, \nwrite Sandro Vento et al. of the A. Pugliese Hospital in Catanzaro, Italy. \nThe researchers report three asymptomatic HIV-1 infected individuals with \nhepatitis C Virus related chronic active hepatitis (CAH) who had a rapid, \nprofound decline of CD4 cells after IFN. All three patients throughout the \nobservation were consistently negative for serum HIV p24 antigen and had \ncirculating antibodies to p24. Sera from all three patients, obtained at the \nend of IFN treatment and testing in enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay, \ncontained high titres of antibodies reacting to a sequence located in the \naminoterminal of the beta chain of all human HLA class II antigens, \nhomologous to a sequence located in the carboxy terminus of HIV-1 gp41. \nThese autoantibodies, which also recognize \"native\" class II molecules and \nmay contribute to the elimination of CD4 T cells \"in vivo\", were at low tires \n(50-100) in all three patients six months after stopping IFN. Such \nautoantibodies were not detected in 28 other patients with HIV infection and \nHCV related CAH treated with IFN and who did not experience CD4 T-cell loss \nin some HIV-1 infected individuals through the amplification of harmful \n\"autoimmune\" reactions. The subjects had A1; B8; DR3; and B35, DR1 HLA \nantigen combinations which are linked with a more rapid fall in CD4 cell \ncounts and clinical progression of HIV-1 disease. IFN can induce a very \nrapid decline of CD4 cells and should be used cautiously in patients with \nthese HLA haplotypes, the researchers conclude. \n ================================================================ \n April 23, 1993 \n ================================================================ \n\"TB Makes a Comeback\" State Government News (04/93) Vol. 36, No. 4, P. 6 \n(Voit, William and Knapp, Elaine S.) \n\n Although tuberculosis was once believed to be eliminated in the United \nStates, it is emerging again among the homeless, AIDS patients, immigrants, \nminorities, and prisoners. Dr. Lee B. Reichman, professor of medicine at the \nUniversity of New Jersey Medical School and president of the American Lung \nAssociation, said, \"Right now, it's a big city problem, but potentially it's \neveryone's problem.\" The ALA predicts that 10 million Americans are infected \nwith TB, and about 10 percent of them will develop the disease because their \nimmune systems are depressed, especially those with AIDS or HIV. Gene \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 46\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\nTammes, a Centers for Disease Control expert, said that is why the CDC has \nissued guidelines warning hospitals and institutions not to mix AIDS with TB \npatients. State health officials believe the TB is also spreading because \nthose who are most susceptible are the least likely to follow through with \ntreatment. In addition, the increase is attributed to a shortage of public \nhealth services. In New York City, TB is an epidemic \"because the number of \ncases is increasing faster than we can treat people,\" said Dr. George \nDiferdinando, director of the New York State TB Control. According to \nDiferdinando, curbing the spread of TB entails keeping 85 percent or more of \ndiagnosed TB cases in treatment. About 40 percent of infected New York City \nresidents don't complete therapy. When TB patients don't finish taking their \nmedication, multi-drug resistant TB can develop, which requires taking more \nexpensive drugs and can take two years instead of the normal six months to \ntreat.\n ================================================================ \n \"Increasing Frequency of Heterosexually Transmitted AIDS in Southern \nFlorida: Artifact or Reality?\" American Journal of Public Health (04/93) Vol. \n83, No. 4, P. 571 (Nwanyanwu, Okey C. et al.) \n\n The alarmingly high rate of heterosexually acquired AIDS cases in \nsouthern Florida was partially related to misclassification of risk, write \nOkey C. Nwanyanwu et al. of the Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta, Ga. \nThe researchers investigated 168 such AIDS cases from Broward and coastal \nPalm Beach counties. All of these cases attributed to heterosexual \ntransmission reported sexual contact with bisexual men, injecting drug users, \nor persons born in countries where heterosexual contact is the primary route \nof HIV transmission. Medical records of patients, in addition to records \nfrom social services, HIV counseling and testing centers, and sexually \ntransmitted disease (STD) clinics were reviewed. If no other HIV risk factor \nwas found from medical record review, patients were interviewed using a \nstandardized questionnaire. Once STD clinic and other medical records were \nreviewed, 29 men and 7 women were reclassified into other HIV transmission \ncategories. After adjustments were made for the reclassification, the \npercentage of AIDS cases reported from Palm Beach and Broward counties \nbetween January 1, 1989, and March 31, 1990, that was attributed to \nheterosexual transmission decreased from 10 percent to 6 percent among men \nand from 33 percent to 28 percent among women. While the percentage of \nheterosexually transmitted AIDS cases in southern Florida decreased after \nadjustment was made for reclassified cases, it still remained above the \nnational average, the researchers conclude.\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 47\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n\n\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n AIDS Statistics\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n\n World Health Organization, Geneva\n Organisation mondiale de la Sante, Geneve\n\n WEEKLY EPIDEMIOLOGICAL RECORD\n RELEVE EPIDEMIOLOGIQUE HEBDOMADAIRE\n\n15 January 1993 - 68th Year\n\n ACQUIRED IMMUNODEFICIENCY SYNDROME (AIDS)\n DATA AS AT 31 December 1992\n\n SYNDROME D'IMMUNODEFICIENCE ACQUISE (SIDA)\n DONNEES AU 31 Decembre 1992\n\n NUMBER DATE OF\n OF CASES REPORT\nCOUNTRY/AREA - NOMBRE DATE\n PAYS/TERRITOIRE DE CAS DE\n NOTIFI-\n CATION\nAFRICA - AFRIQUE\n\nAlgeria - Algerie 92 31.08.91\nAngola 514 24.09.92\nBenin - Benin 247 31.03.92\nBotswana 353 30.06.92\nBurkina Faso 1,263 20.03.92\nBurundi 6,052 20.03.92\nCameroon - Cameroun 1,407 05.10.92\nCape Verde - Cap-Vert 52 08.02.92\nCentral African Republic -\n Republique centrafricaine 1,864 20.03.92\nChad - Tchad 382 17.09.92\nComoros - Comores 3 11.03.92\nCongo 3,482 30.01.92\nCote d'Ivoire 10,792 09.03.92\nDjibouti 265 17.12.92\nEgypt - Egypte 57 17.12.92\nEquatorial Guinea - \n Guinee equatoriale 13 16.05.92\nEthiopia - Ethiopie 3,978 11.11.92\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 48\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\nGabon 215 31.05.92\nGambia - Gambie 180 25.02.92\nGhana 3,612 01.07.92\nGuinea - Guinee 338 20.03.92\nGuinea-Bissau - Guinee-Bissau 189 13.07.92\nKenya 31,185 01.10.92\nLesotho 64 31.03.92\nLiberia - Liberia 28 31.03.92\nLibyan Arab Jamahiriya -\n Jamahiriya arabe libyenne 7 17.12.92\nMadagascar 2 06.11.92\nMalawi 22,300 02.12.92\nMali 1,111 17.07.92\nMauritania - Mauritanie 36 19.07.92\nMauritius - Maurice 11 29.02.92\nMorocco - Maroc 121 17.12.92\nMozambique 538 10.10.92\nNamibia - Namibie 311 20.03.92\nNiger 497 07.02.92\nNigeria - Nigeria 184 12.03.92\nReunion - Reunion 65 20.03.92\nRwanda 8,483 12.11.92\nSao Tome and Principe -\n Sao Tome-et-Principe 11 03.07.92\nSenegal - Senegal 648 09.03.92\nSeychelles --- 18.02.92\nSierra Leone 40 20.03.92\nSomalia - Somalie 13 17.12.92\nSouth Africa - \n Afrique du Sud 1,316 30.06.92\nSudan - Soudan 650 17.12.92\nSwaziland 197 08.07.92\nTogo 1,278 03.04.92\nTunisia - Tunisie 114 17.12.92\nUganda - Ouganda 34,611 01.11.92\nUnited Republic of Tanzania -\n Republique-Unie de\n Tanzanie 34,605 31.05.92\nZaire - Zaire 18,186 14.05.92\nZambia - Zambie 6,556 15.10.92\nZimbabwe 12,514 31.03.92\n\nTOTAL 211,032\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 49\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\nAMERICAS - AMERIQUES\n\nAnguilla 6 10.12.92\nAntigua and Barbuda - \n Antigua-et-Barbuda 6 10.12.92\nArgentina - Argentine 1,820 10.12.92\nBahamas 934 10.12.92\nBarbados - Barbade 315 10.12.92\nBelize 53 10.12.92\nBermuda - Bermudes 199 10.12.92\nBolivia - Bolivie 49 10.12.92\nBrazil - Bresil 31,364 10.12.92\nBritish Virgin Islands -\n Iles Vierges \n britanniques 4 10.12.92\nCanada 6,889 10.12.92\nCayman Islands - Iles Caimanes 13 10.12.92\nChile - Chili 573 10.12.92\nColombia - Colombie 2,957 10.12.92\nCosta Rica 419 10.12.92\nCuba 137 10.12.92\nDominica - Dominique 12 10.12.92\nDominican Republic -\n Republique dominicaine 1,809 10.12.92\nEcuador - Equateur 224 10.12.92\nEl Salvador 382 10.12.92\nFrench Guiana -\n Guyane francaise 232 10.12.92\nGrenada - Grenade 32 10.12.92\nGuadeloupe 182 10.12.92\nGuatemala 273 10.12.92\nGuyana 333 10.12.92\nHaiti - Haiti 3,086 10.12.92\nHonduras 1,976 10.12.92\nJamaica - Jamaique 361 10.12.92\nMartinique 227 10.12.92\nMexico - Mexique 11,034 10.12.92\nMontserrat 1 10.12.92\nNetherlands Antilles and Aruba -\n Antilles neerlandaises et\n Aruba 110 10.12.92\nNicaragua 31 10.12.92\nPanama 388 10.12.92\nParaguay 51 10.12.92\nPeru - Perou 614 10.12.92\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 50\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\nSaint Kitts and Nevis -\n Saint-Kitts-et-Nevis 37 10.12.92\nSaint Lucia - Sainte-Lucie 48 10.12.92\nSaint Vincent and the\n Grenadines - Saint-\n Vincent-et-Grenadines 41 10.12.92\nSuriname 122 10.12.92\nTrinidad and Tobago -\n Trinite-et-Tobago 1,085 10.12.92\nTurks and Caicos Islands -\n Iles Turques et\n Caiques 25 10.12.92\nUnited States of America -\n Etats-Unis d'Amerique 242,146 10.12.92\nUruguay 310 10.12.92\nVenezuela 2,173 10.12.92\n\nTOTAL 313,083\n\n\nASIA - ASIE\n\nAfghanistan --- 17.12.92\nBahrain - Bahrein 3 31.03.92\nBangladesh 1 30.11.92\nBhutan - Bhoutan --- 30.11.92\nBrunei Darussalam - \n Brunei Darussalam 2 19.12.91\nBurma see Myanmar -\n Birmanie voir Myanmar\nCambodia - Cambodge --- 31.10.92\nChina(a) - Chine(a) 11 28.04.92\nCyprus - Chypre 24 17.12.92\nDemocratic People's Republic\n of Korea - Republique\n populaire democratique\n de Coree --- 30.11.92\nHong Kong 61 26.09.92\nIndia - Inde 242 30.11.92\nIndonesia - Indonesie 24 30.11.92\nIran (Islamic Republic of) -\n Iran (Republique\n islamique d') 56 17.12.92\nIraq 7 17.12.92\nIsrael - Israel 192 17.12.92\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 51\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\nJapan - Japon 508 04.12.92\nJordan - Jordanie 24 17.12.92\nKuwait - Koweit 7 17.12.92\nLao People's Democratic Republic -\n Republique democratique\n populaire lao 1 23.04.92\nLebanon - Liban 35 17.12.92\nMacao 2 03.11.92\nMalaysia - Malaisie 46 25.05.92\nMaldives --- 30.11.92\nMongolia - Mongolie 1 30.11.92\nMyanmar 16 30.11.92\nNepal - Nepal 12 30.11.92\nOman 27 17.12.92\nPakistan 25 17.12.92\nPhilippines 80 07.10.92\nQatar 31 17.12.92\nRepublic of Korea -\n Republique de Coree 10 19.11.92\nSaudi Arabia - Arabie saoudite 46 17.12.92\nSingapore - Singapour 43 05.08.92\nSri Lanka 20 30.11.92\nSyrian Arab Republic - \n Republique arabe syrienne 19 17.12.92\nThailand - Thailande 909 30.11.92\nTurkey - Turquie 89 17.12.92\nUnited Arab Emirates - Emirats\n arabes unis 8 17.12.92\nViet Nam --- 28.04.92\nYemen - Yemen --- 17.12.92\n\nTOTAL 2,582\n\n\n\nEUROPE\n\nAlbania - Albanie --- 30.09.92\nAustria - Autriche 828 30.09.92\nBelarus - Belarus 6 30.09.92\nBelgium - Belgique 1,224 17.12.92\nBulgaria - Bulgarie 16 17.12.92\nCzechoslovakia - Tchecoslovaquie 32 17.12.92\nDenmark - Danemark 1,072 17.12.92\nFinland - Finlande 112 17.12.92\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 52\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\nFrance 21,487 17.12.92\nGermany - Allemagne 8,893 17.12.92\nGreece - Grece 689 17.12.92\nHungary - Hongrie 105 17.12.92\nIceland - Islande 22 17.12.92\nIreland - Irlande 294 17.12.92\nItaly - Italie 14,783 17.12.92\nLatvia - Lettonie 2 30.09.92\nLithuania - Lituanie 2 30.09.92\nLuxembourg 55 17.12.92\nMalta - Malte 25 17.12.92\nMonaco 9 17.12.92\nNetherlands - Pays-Bas 2,330 17.12.92\nNorway - Norvege 283 17.12.92\nPoland - Pologne 118 17.12.92\nPortugal 1,007 17.12.92\nRomania - Roumanie 2,073 17.12.92\nRussian Federation - Federation\n de Russie 94 30.09.92\nSan Marino - Saint-Marin 1 17.12.92\nSpain - Espagne 14,991 17.12.92\nSweden - Suede 743 17.12.92\nSwitzerland - Suisse 2,691 17.12.92\nUnited Kingdom - Royaume-Uni 6,510 17.12.92\nYugoslavia(b) - Yougoslavie(b) 313 30.09.92\n\nTOTAL 80,810\n\n\n\nOCEANIA - OCEANIE\n\nAmerican Samoa - Samoa americaines --- 18.11.92\nAustralia - Australie 3,615 02.12.92\nCook Islands - Iles Cook --- 18.02.92\nFederated States of Micronesia -\n Etats federes de Micronesie 2 01.09.92\nFiji - Fidji 4 28.11.91\nFrench Polynesia - Polynesie francaise 27 28.11.91\nGuam 10 13.09.91\nKiribati --- 08.11.91\nMariana Islands - Iles Mariannes 4 14.10.92\nMarshall Islands - Iles Marshall 2 18.03.91\nNauru --- 17.12.92\nNew Caledonia and Dependencies -\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 53\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n Nouvelle-Caledonie et\n dependances 22 26.08.92\nNew Zealand - Nouvelle-Zelande 348 03.11.92\nNiue --- 18.02.92\nPalau --- 15.10.92\nPapua New Guinea - Papouasie-\n Nouvelle-Guinee 45 10.08.92\nSamoa 1 18.02.92\nSolomon Islands - Iles Salomon --- 19.12.91\nTokelau --- 18.02.92\nTonga 2 24.07.92\nTuvalu --- 22.11.92\nVanuatu --- 08.06.92\nWallis and Futuna Islands - Iles\n Wallis et Futuna --- 27.05.91\n\nTOTAL 4,082\n\n\nWORLD TOTAL - \n TOTAL MONDIAL 611,589\n\n(a) The above statistics relating to China do not include 48 cases of AIDS in\nthe Province of Taiwan. -- Les statistiques ci-dessus se rapportant a la Chine\nne comprennent pas 48 cas de SIDA dans la province de Taiwan.\n\n(b) Refers to Republics and areas of the former Socialist Federal Republic of\nYugoslavia: Bosnia and Herzegovina; Croatia; Macedonia; Montenegro;\nSerbia; Slovenia. -- Se refere aux republiques et territoires de l'ancienne\nRepublique federative socialiste de Yougoslavie: Bosnie-Herzegovine; Croatie;\nMacedoine; Montenegro; Serbie; Slovenie. \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 54\n------------- cut here -----------------\n-- This is the last part ---------------\n", "\n[snip]\n\n\nANYTHING you store in there will eventually cause some discomfort over\ntime.", "\nCool, then we can discuss the increase in radio and TV use, \nthe increase in the use of fossil fuels, the increase in air \ntravel, and consumption of processed bread, and you can\ninstruct us on which of them causes increased depression.", ": In article <1993Apr12.201056.20753@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> mcg2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (\n\n: >Now, I'm not saying that culturing is the best way to diagnose; it's very\n: >hard to culture Bb in most cases. The point is that Dr. N has developed a\n: >\"feel\" for what is and what isn't LD. This comes from years of experience.\n: >No serology can match that. Unfortunately, some would call Dr. N a \"quack\"\n: >and accuse him of trying to make a quick buck.\n: >\n: Why do you think he would be called a quack? The quacks don't do cultures.\n: They poo-poo doing more lab tests: \"this is Lyme, believe me, I've\n: seen it many times. The lab tests aren't accurate. We'll treat it\n: now.\" Also, is Dr. N's practice almost exclusively devoted to treating\n: Lyme patients? I don't know *any* orthopedic surgeons who fit this\n: pattern. They are usually GPs.\n\nNo, he does not exclusively treat LD patients. However, in some parts of the\ncountry, you don't need to be known as an LD \"specialist\" to see a large\nnumber of LD patients walk through your office. Given the huge problem of\nunderdiagnosis, orthopedists encounter late manifestations of the disease just\nabout every day in their regular practices. Dr. N. told me that last year,\nhe sent between 2 and 5 patients a week to the LD specialists... and he is not\nthe only orthopedists in the town.\n\nLet's say that only 2 people per week actually have LD. That means at the\n*very minimum* 104 people in our town (and immediate area) develop late stage\nmanifestations of LD *every year*. Add in the folks who were diagnosed by\nneurologists, rheumatologists, GPs, etc, and you can see what kind of problem\nwe have. No wonder just about everybody in town personally knows an LD\npatient.\n\nHe refers most patients to LD specialists, but in extreme cases he puts the\npatient on medication immediately to minimize the damage (in most cases, to\nthe knees).\n\nGordon is correct when he states that most LD specialists are GPs.\n\n-Marc.\n-- \n--", "\nWasn't there a \"plain\" flavor too? They looked more like some\nkind of extruded industrial product than food -- perfectly\nsmooth cylinders with perfectly smooth ends. Kinda scary.\n\n\nAn other post described it as like a \"microwaved Tootsie Roll\" --\nwhich captures the texture pretty well. As for taste, they were\nlike candy, only not very sweet -- does that make sense? I recall\nliking them for their texture, not taste. I guess I have well\ndeveloped texture buds.\n\n\nIt was obligatory to eat a few while watching \"Captain Scarlet\".\nDoes anybody else remember _that_, as long as we're off the\ntopic of space?\n\nShag\n\n-- ", "\nSounds pretty familiar. I posted similar cries about last September when\nCaroline just entered daycare. She was two, then, and have been with \ncontinuous colds since until last March. As spring approaches, her colds\nslowed down. Meanwhile we grew more and more relaxed about her colds.\nOnly once did the doctor diagnosed an ear infection and only twice she\nhad antibiotics. (The other time was due to sinus infection, and I wished\nthat I did not give her that awful Septra.) \n\n\nThere are the 'net studies' -- that is, if you read this newsgroup often,\nthere will be a round of questions like this every month. There might\nbe formal studies like that, but bear with my not so academic experience.\nOkay?\n\nGee, I bet 50/50 you'll hear cases in all these catagories.\n\n\nI am pretty sure, an insulated child at home sicks less. But, that child \nstill will face the world one day. \n\n\nThat's what I believe and comfort myself with. Caroline will get more\nand more colds for sure before she learned not to stick her hand in other \nkid's mouth nor let other kids do the same. Cold virus mutate easily.\nHowever, I hope that her immune system will be stronger to fight these\ndiseases, so she would be less severely affected. Everytime she has a cold,\nwe make sure she blow her nose frequently and give her Dorcol or Dimetapp \nat night so she can have good rest (thanks to some suggestions from the net).\nThat's about all the care she needs from us. I try very hard to keep her\noff antibiotics. Twice her ped. gave me choice to decide whether she would\nhave antibiotics. I waited just long enough (3-4 days) to see that she\nfought the illness off. I do understand that you don't have much choice if\nthe child is in pain and/or high fever. \n\n\nIf the child doesn't rely on antibiotics to fight off the sickness everytime,\nthen the child should be stronger.\n\nI'll leave this to expert.\n\nIf your child just entered daycare, I'm pretty sure the first 6 months will be\nthe hardest. (Then, you get more used to it. Boy, do I hate to see me typing\nthis sentence. I recall when I read something like this last September, I said \nto myself, 'oh, sure.' But, I do get used to it, now.) However, I do hear \npeople say that it does get better after a year or two. I am looking forward \nto a healthier next winter. As it gets warmer, I hope you do get some break \nsoon.\n\nEat well, sleep well. Try not to use antibiotics if not absolutely necessary.\n\nGood luck.\n\nWen-lin\n\n", "\nI don't think that's a problem. My face is quite oily too. I had a moderate\nacne problem for many years. I then found that if I vigorously scrub my face\nwith a nail brush and soap (Irish Spring) twice a day the acne was not a \nproblem. I can still leave a pretty health nose print on a mirror after 45 min\n(don't ask ;->) but acne is not a real problem anymore. ", "~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n\nThen why do we really need national health insurance then? Wouldn't it just make\nmore sense to find some way to cut down on the cost of malpractice insurance?\n\nAnd maybe that's not such a good thing. I also read somewhere that it is next to\nimpossible in Canada to litigate against the health system-class action suits\nare nearly impossible, and you can't sue the provincial health officials at all.\n\n\nOh no. Don't let the AMA know about this. They have enough power as it is. Ask\nmost Americans whether they'd like the doctors' lobby to get more powerful.\n\n\nWell, yeah, tell us about the National Defense Medical Centre outside Ottawa.\nTheoretically it's limited to service personnel, but some studies I've heard\nabout have suggested that about half the patients there are civilians who not\nonly have connections but aren't \"urgent\" at all.\n\nThe problem is, in a system where hospitals' annual budgets are approved by the\ngovernment, how do you keep political considerations out of medical decisions?\nI bet that if you're an MP or MPP, or good friends with one, you're put on any\nhospital's \"urgent\" care list no matter how minor your problem. Which is OK \nunless you're someone who gets bumped off the list for some bigshot.\n\n\nHmm. How much difference would it make in the figure of percentage of GNP spent\non health care if dentistry and optometry were included in the accounting? \nMaybe Canada spends proportionately just as much on health care as we do.\n\n\nSo what happens if the health care systems financially collapse. Bob Rae, the\nsecond least popular man in Ontario, warned Ontarians a few years ago that if\nthey didn't stop cross-border shopping in such huge numbers, \"the services they\nexpect from the province just won't be there in a few years\" (Fortunately for\nthem (and less fortunately for the retailers here in Western New York) the \nCanadian dollar went back to a more realistic value). He didn't say so, but I\nknew he meant the OHIP. What would happen if his warning turned out to be the \ntruth? Would the private insurers take up the slack? They'd be under no \nobligation to. Of course, they could eventually make money again, but if what\nyou say is true, they'd be loathe to do so (and out of practice in handling \nsuch basic services, too).\n\n\nWould that it were free. Americans would start another revolution if they had\nto pay taxes at Canadian rates.\n", "\nI've sent the article. In terms of the group discussion, I wanted to point\nout that \"non-liberal education\" (head in the sand) is not the same as\n\"abstinence education\".\n\nWe had \"non-liberal education\" regarding drugs when I was a kid in the 60's,\nwhich didn't do us a lot of good. But \"abstinence education\" regarding\ndrugs has proven effective, I think.\n", "\n\t...or centerstands, or weasel squeezers, or ....\n\nLater,", "\n\nThere is no database for infantile spasms, nor a newsgroup, that I\nknow of. The medical library will be the best source of information\nfor you.\n\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", null ], "marker": { "opacity": 0.5, "size": 5 }, "mode": "markers+text", "name": "4_the_of_to", "text": [ "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", 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"dtype": "f4" } }, { "hoverinfo": "text", "hovertext": [ "\n What evidence indicates that Gamma Ray bursters are very far away?\n\nTheir distribution is very isotropic and the intensity distribution,\ncrudely speaking, indicates we're seeing an edge to the distribution.\n\n Given the enormous power, i was just wondering, what if they are\n quantum black holes or something like that fairly close by?\n\n Why would they have to be at galactic ranges? \n\nNow, in the good old days before GRO data, it was thought the\ngamma bursters were neutron stars in the galaxy, it was expected that\nGRO would confirm this by either showing they were a local population\n(within a few hundred light years) or that they were in the galactic\nhalo. (Mechanism was not known but several plausible ones existed)\n(also to be fair it was noted that the _brightest_ burster was\nprobably in the LMC, suggesting theorists might be wrong back then...)\n\tAs the Sun is not at the center of the galaxy a halo\npopulation should show anisotropy (a local disk population is\nruled out completely at this stage) - to avoid the anisotropy you\nhave to push the halo out, the energy then gets large, the mechanism\nof getting NS out that far becomes questionable, and we should start\nto see for example the Andromeda's bursters.\n\tThe data is consistent with either a Oort cloud distribution\n(but only just) - but no one can think of a plausible source with\nthe right spectrum. Or, it can be a cosmological distances (hence\nisotropy) and the edge is \"the edge of the Universe\" ;-)\nIf at cosmological distances you need very high energy (to detect)\nand a very compact source (for spectrum), ergo a neutron star\ncolliding with another neutron star or black hole. Even then getting\nthe spectrum is very hard, but conceivable.\n\n\tIf we know anything about physics at that level,\nthe bursters are not due to quantum black holes or cosmic\nstrings, wrong spectrum for one thing.\n\nThe situation is further complicated by recent claims that\nthere are two classes of sources ;-) [in the colliding NS\nthey'd actually probably fit relatively easily into the\nNS-NS and NS-BH collision scenarios respectively]\n\n my own pet theory is that it's Flying saucers entering\n hyperspace :-)\n\n but the reason i am asking is that most everyone assumes that they\n are colliding nuetron stars or spinning black holes, i just wondered\n if any mechanism could exist and place them closer in.\n\nIf you can think of one, remember to invite me to Stockholm...", "\n ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^\n\n Can we assume that this guy studied advertising and not chemistry? Granted \nit probably a great advertising gimic, but it doesn't sound at all practical.\n", "\n\nYes. It was the strangest series I have ever watched. And the ending\nfit perfectly.", ". . . David gives good explaination of the deductions from the isotropic,\n'edged' distribution, to whit, they are either part of the Universe or\npart of the Oort cloud.\n\nWhy couldn't they be Earth centred, with the edge occuring at the edge\nof the gravisphere? I know there isn't any mechanism for them, but there\nisn't a mechanism for the others either.", "Is anyone going to the P.B frenzy at Cadwell park in May.\nI am going, but only to watch.\n\n", "\n I believe that E-Machines might produce something of this nature.\n ", "\n\n\nThanks again. One final question. The name Gehrels wasn't known to\nme before this thread came up, but the May issue of Scientific American\nhas an article about the \"Inconstant Cosmos\", with a photo of Neil\nGehrels, project scientist for NASA's Compton Gamma Ray Observatory.\nSame person?\n-- \nMark Brader, SoftQuad Inc., Toronto\t\"Information! ... We want information!\"\nutzoo!sq!msb, msb@sq.com\t\t\t\t-- The Prisoner", "\"Space Station Redesign Leader Says Cost Goal May Be\nImpossible\"\n\nToday (4/6) the Washington Post ran an article with the\nheadline shown above. The article starts with \"A leader\nof the NASA team in charge of redesigning the planned\nspace station said yesterday the job is tough and may\nbe impossible.\" O'Connor is quoted saying whether it is\npossible to cut costs that much and still provide for\nmeaningful research \"is a real question for me.\"\nO'Connor said \"everything is fair game,\" including\n\"dropping or curtailing existing contracts with the\naerospace industry, chopping management of the space\nstation program at some NASA facilities around the\ncountry, working closely with the Russian space station\nMir, and using unmanned Titan rockets to supplement the\nmanned space shuttle fleet.\"\n\nO'Connor says his team has reviewed 30 design options\nso far, and they are sorting the serious candidates\ninto three categories based on cost.\n\nThe Post says O'Connor described the design derived\nfrom the current SSF as a high cost option (I believe\nKathy Sawyer, the Post writer, got confused here. I\nlistened in on part of O'Connor's briefing to the press\non Monday, and in one part of the briefing O'Connor\ntalked about how the White House wants three options,\nsorted by cost [low, medium, and high]. In another part\nof the briefing, he discussed the three teams he has\nformed to look at three options [SSF derivative @ LaRC,\nmodular buildup with Bus-1 @ MSFC, and Single Launch\nCore [\"wingless Orbiter\"] @ JSC. Later, in response to\na reporters question, I thought I heard O'Connor say\nthe option based on a SSF redesign was a \"moderate\"\ncost option, in between low & high cost options. Not\nthe \"high cost\" option as Sawyer wrote).\n\nThe article goes on to describe the other two options\nas \"one features modules that could gradually be fitted\ntogether in orbit, similar to the Russian Mir. The\nother is a core facility that could be deposited in\norbit in a single launch, like Skylab. That option\nwould use existing hardware from the space shuttle -\nthe fuselage, for example, in its basic structure.\"", "I am looking for a source of orbital element sets\nother than UAF/Space Command. I believe there is\none on CompuServe. Please let me know what other\npossible sources there are and how I can reach \nthem. Thanks much.\n", "THE ELECTRONIC JOURNAL OF\n THE ASTRONOMICAL SOCIETY OF THE ATLANTIC\n\n Volume 4, Number 9 - April 1993\n\n ###########################\n\n TABLE OF CONTENTS\n\n ###########################\n\n * ASA Membership and Article Submission Information\n\n * The Soviets and Venus, Part 3 - Larry Klaes\n\n ###########################\n\n ASA MEMBERSHIP INFORMATION\n\n The Electronic Journal of the Astronomical Society of the Atlantic\n (EJASA) is published monthly by the Astronomical Society of the\n Atlantic, Incorporated. The ASA is a non-profit organization dedicated\n to the advancement of amateur and professional astronomy and space\n exploration, as well as the social and educational needs of its members.\n\n ASA membership application is open to all with an interest in\n astronomy and space exploration. Members receive the Journal of the\n ASA (hardcopy sent through United States Mail - Not a duplicate of this\n Electronic Journal) and the Astronomical League's REFLECTOR magazine.\n Members may also purchase discount subscriptions to ASTRONOMY and\n SKY & TELESCOPE magazines.\n\n For information on membership, you may contact the Society at any\n of the following addresses:\n\n Astronomical Society of the Atlantic (ASA)\n c/o Center for High Angular Resolution Astronomy (CHARA)\n Georgia State University (GSU)\n Atlanta, Georgia 30303\n U.S.A.\n\n asa@chara.gsu.edu\n\n ASA BBS: (404) 321-5904, 300/1200/2400 Baud\n\n or telephone the Society Recording at (404) 264-0451 to leave your\n address and/or receive the latest Society news.\n\n ASA Officers and Council -\n\n President - Eric Greene\n Vice President - Jeff Elledge\n Secretary - Ingrid Siegert-Tanghe\n Treasurer - Mike Burkhead\n Directors - Becky Long, Tano Scigliano, Bob Vickers\n Council - Bill Bagnuolo, Michele Bagnuolo, Don Barry, Bill Black, \n Mike Burkhead, Jeff Elledge, Frank Guyton, Larry Klaes, \n Ken Poshedly, Jim Rouse, Tano Scigliano, John Stauter, \n Wess Stuckey, Harry Taylor, Gary Thompson, Cindy Weaver, \n Bob Vickers\n\n\n ARTICLE SUBMISSIONS\n\n Article submissions to the EJASA on astronomy and space exploration\n are most welcome. Please send your on-line articles in ASCII format to\n Larry Klaes, EJASA Editor, at the following net addresses or the above\n Society addresses:\n\n klaes@verga.enet.dec.com\n or - ...!decwrl!verga.enet.dec.com!klaes\n or - klaes%verga.dec@decwrl.enet.dec.com\n or - klaes%verga.enet.dec.com@uunet.uu.net\n\n You may also use the above addresses for EJASA back issue requests,\n letters to the editor, and ASA membership information.\n\n When sending your article submissions, please be certain to include\n either a network or regular mail address where you can be reached, a\n telephone number, and a brief biographical sketch.\n\n Back issues of the EJASA are also available from the ASA anonymous \n FTP site at chara.gsu.edu (131.96.5.29). Directory: /pub/ejasa\n\n DISCLAIMER\n\n Submissions are welcome for consideration. Articles submitted,\n unless otherwise stated, become the property of the Astronomical\n Society of the Atlantic, Incorporated. Though the articles will not\n be used for profit, they are subject to editing, abridgment, and other\n changes. Copying or reprinting of the EJASA, in part or in whole, is\n encouraged, provided clear attribution is made to the Astronomical\n Society of the Atlantic, the Electronic Journal, and the author(s).\n Opinions expressed in the EJASA are those of the authors' and not\n necessarily those of the ASA. This Journal is Copyright (c) 1993\n by the Astronomical Society of the Atlantic, Incorporated.\n\n\n THE SOVIETS AND VENUS\n PART 3\n\n Copyright (c) 1993 by Larry Klaes\n\n\tThe author gives permission to any group or individual wishing\n\tto distribute this article, so long as proper credit is given,\n the author is notified, and the article is reproduced in its \n entirety.\n\n To the North Pole!\n\n On June 2 and 7, 1983, two of the Soviet Union's mighty PROTON \n rockets lifted off from the Tyuratam Space Center in the Kazakhstan \n Republic. Aboard those boosters were a new breed of VENERA probe \n for the planet Venus. \n\n Designated VENERA 15 and 16, the probes were meant not for landing\n yet more spherical craft on the Venerean surface but to radar map the\n planet in detail from orbit. To accomplish this task, the basic\n VENERA design was modified in numerous areas. The central bus core\n was made one meter (39.37 inches) longer to carry the two tons of\n propellant required for braking into orbit, double the fuel carried by\n the VENERA 9 and 10 orbiters eight years earlier. Extra solar panels\n were added on to give the vehicles more power for handling the large\n amounts of data which would be created by the radar imaging. The\n dish-shaped communications antennae were also made one meter larger \n to properly transmit this information to Earth. \n\n Atop the buses, where landers were usually placed, were installed\n the 1.4 by 6-meter (4.62 by 19.8-foot), 300-kilogram (660-pound)\n POLYUS V side-looking radar antennae. The radar system, possibly a\n terrain-imaging version of the nuclear-powered satellites used by \n the Soviets for Earth ocean surveillance, would be able to map Venus'\n surface at a resolution of one to two kilometers (0.62 to 1.2 miles). \n\n The Soviet probes' imaging parameters were a vast improvement over\n the United States PIONEER VENUS Orbiter, which could reveal objects \n no smaller than 75 kilometers (45 miles) in diameter. And while the\n VENERAs' resolution was comparable to that of similar observations \n made by the 300-meter (1,000-foot) Arecibo radio telescope on the \n island of Puerto Rico, the orbiters would be examining the northern\n pole of Venus. This region was unobtainable by either Arecibo or \n PIONEER VENUS and appeared to contain a number of potentially \n interesting geological features worthy of investigation.\n\n On October 10, 1983, after an interplanetary journey of 330 \n million kilometers (198 million miles) and two mid-course corrections, \n VENERA 15 fired its braking rockets over Venus to place itself in a \n polar orbit 1,000 by 65,000 kilometers (600 by 39,000 miles) around \n the planet, completing one revolution every twenty-four hours. VENERA \n 16 followed suit four days later. The twin probes thus became Venus' \n first polar-circling spacecraft.\n\n Radar operations began on October 16 for VENERA 15 and October 20 \n for VENERA 16. For up to sixteen minutes every orbit over the north\n pole, the probes would make a radar sweep of the surface 150 kilometers \n (ninety miles) wide and nine thousand kilometers (5,400 miles) long. \n The craft would then head out to the highest part of their orbits over \n the south pole to recharge their batteries and transmit the data back \n to two large Soviet antennae on Earth. Each strip of information took \n eight hours to process by computer. By the end of their main missions \n in July of 1984, the VENERAs had mapped 115 million square kilometers \n (46 million square miles), thirty percent of the entire planet.\n\n VENERA 15 and 16 revealed that Venus has a surface geology more\n complex than shown by PIONEER VENUS in the late 1970s. Numerous hills, \n mountains, ridges, valleys, and plains spread across the landscape, \n many of them apparently formed by lava from erupting volcanoes in the \n last one billion years. In planetary terms this makes the Venerean \n surface rather young. Hundreds of craters were detected as well, the \n largest of which had to have been created by meteorites (planetoids \n would be a better term here) at least fourteen kilometers (8.4 miles) \n across, due to Venus' very dense atmosphere.\n\n There were some disagreements between U.S. and Soviet scientists\n on the origins of certain surface features. For example, the probes' \n owners declared that the 96-kilometer (57.6-mile) wide crater at the \n summit of 10,800-meter (35,640-foot) high Maxwell Montes, the tallest \n mountain on the planet, was the result of a meteorite impact. American \n scientists, on the other hand, felt the crater was proof that Maxwell \n was a huge volcano sitting on the northern \"continent\" of Ishtar Terra. \n\n In any event, the U.S. decided to wait on making verdicts about\n Venus until the arrival of their own radar probe, scheduled for later\n in the decade. Originally named the Venus Orbiting Imaging Radar\n (VOIR), its initial design was scaled back and the craft was redesig-\n nated the Venus Radar Mapper (VRM). Eventually the machine would be \n called MAGELLAN, after the Portuguese navigator Ferdinand Magellan \n (circa 1480-1521). This vehicle would map the entire planet in even \n finer detail than the VENERAs. For the time, however, the Soviet \n probes maintained that distinction.\n\n Radar imaging was not the only ability of the VENERAs. Bolted\n next to the POLYUS V radar antenna were the Omega altimeter and the \n Fourier infrared spectrometer, the latter for measuring the world's\n temperatures. The majority of the areas covered registered about\n five hundred degrees Celsius (932 degrees Fahrenheit), but a few\n locations were two hundred degrees hotter, possibly indicating \n current volcanic activity. The probes also found that the clouds \n over the poles were five to eight kilometers (three to 4.8 miles) \n lower than at the equator. In contrast, the polar air above sixty \n kilometers (thirty-six miles) altitude was five to twenty degrees \n warmer than the equatorial atmosphere at similar heights.\n\n When the main mapping mission ended in July of 1984, there were \n plans for at least one of the VENERAs to radar image the surface at \n more southernly latitudes. Unfortunately this idea did not come to \n pass, as the orbiters may not have possessed enough attitude-control\n gas to perform the operation. \n\n VENERA 15 and 16 ceased transmission in March of 1985, leaving \n the Soviet Institute of Radiotechnology and Electronics with six \n hundred kilometers (360 miles) of radar data tape to sort into an \n atlas of twenty-seven maps of the northern hemisphere of Venus.\n\n Venus by Balloon\n\n For years the thick atmosphere of Venus had been a tempting \n target to scientists who wished to explore the planet's mantle of \n air with balloon-borne instruments. Professor Jacques Blamont of \n the French space agency Centre National d'Etudes Spatiales (CNES)\n had proposed such an idea as far back as 1967, only to have a joint \n French-Soviet balloon mission canceled in 1982. Nevertheless, \n late in the year 1984, such dreams would eventually come true.\n\n When two PROTON rockets were sent skyward on December 15 and 21, \n the Soviet Union provided Western observers with the first clear, full \n views of the booster which had been launching every Soviet Venus probe \n since 1975. This was but one of many firsts for the complex mission.\n\n The unmanned probes launched into space that December were named\n VEGA 1 and 2, a contraction of the words VENERA and GALLEI - Gallei\n being the Russian word for Halley. Not only did the spacecraft \n have more than one mission to perform, they also had more than one \n celestial objective to explore, namely the comet Halley. \n\n This famous periodic traveler was making its latest return to \n the inner regions of the solar system since its last visit in 1910.\n Since it was widely believed that comets are the icy remains from\n the formation of the solar system five billion years ago, scientists \n around the world gave high priority to exploring one of the few such \n bodies which actually come close to Earth. \n\n Most comets linger in the cold and dark outer fringes of the solar \n system. Some, like Halley, are perturbed by various forces and fall \n in towards the Sun, where they circle for millennia spewing out ice \n and debris for millions of kilometers from the warmth of each solar \n encounter.\n\n The Soviet Union, along with the European Space Agency (ESA) and\n Japan's Institute of Space and Astronautical Science (ISAS), did not\n wish to miss out on this first opportunity in human history to make a\n close examination of Halley. The ESA would be using the cylindrical\n GIOTTO probe to make a dangerously close photographic flyby of the \n comet, while Japan's first deep space craft - SAKIGAKE (Pioneer) and \n SUISEI (Comet) - would view Halley from a much safer distance. \n\n Scientists in the United States also desired to study the comet\n from the vantage of a space probe, at one time envisioning a vessel\n powered by solar sails or ion engines. However, government budget\n cuts to NASA canceled the American efforts. The U.S. would have to\n make do primarily with Earth-based observations and the sharing of \n data from other nations, though an instrument named the Dust Counter \n and Mass Analyzer (DUCMA), designed by Chicago University Professor \n John Simpson, was added on the Soviet mission in May of 1984.\n\n The Soviets' answer to Halley were the VEGAs. Instead of building\n an entirely new craft for the mission, the Soviets decided to modify\n their VENERA bus design to encounter the comet while performing an \n advanced Venus mission along the way. As VEGA 1 and 2 reached Venus,\n the buses would drop off one lander/balloon each and use the mass of \n the shrouded planet to swing them towards comet Halley, much as the \n U.S. probe MARINER 10 used Venus to flyby Mercury eleven years earlier. \n The Soviet craft would then head on to Halley, helping to pinpoint the \n location of the comet's erupting nucleus for the GIOTTO probe to dive \n in only 605 kilometers (363 miles) away in March of 1986.\n\n As planned, the two VEGAs arrived at Venus in June of 1985. VEGA\n 1 released its payload first on the ninth day of the month, the lander\n making a two-day descent towards the planet. The craft touched the\n upper atmosphere on the morning of June 11. Sixty-one kilometers\n (36.6 miles) above the Venerean surface a small container was released\n by the lander, which produced a parachute at 55 kilometers (33 miles)\n altitude. Thus the first balloon probe ever to explore Venus had\n successfully arrived. \n\n One kilometer after the opening of the parachute, helium gas was\n pumped into the Teflon-coated plastic balloon, inflating it to a\n diameter of 3.54 meters (11.68 feet). Dangling on a tether thirteen\n meters (42.9 feet) below was the instrument package, properly known as\n an aerostat. The top part of the 6.9-kilogram (15.18-pound) aerostat\n consisted of a cone which served as an antenna and tether attachment\n point to the balloon. Beneath it was the transmitter, electronics,\n and instruments. Connected at the bottom was a nephelometer for\n measuring cloud particles. The aerostat was painted with a special\n white finish to keep at bay the corroding mist of sulfuric acid which\n permeated the planet's atmosphere. \n\n The VEGA 1 balloon was dropped into the night side of Venus just\n north of the equator. Scientists were concerned that the gas bag \n would burst in the heat of daylight, so they placed it in the darkened \n hemisphere to give the craft as much time as possible to return data. \n This action necessitated that the landers come down in the dark as \n well, effectively removing the camera systems used on previous missions. \n The author wonders, though, if they could have used floodlights similar \n to the ones attached to VENERA 9 and 10 in 1975, when Soviet scientists \n had thought the planet's surface was enshrouded in a perpetual twilight \n due to the permanently thick cloud cover.\n\n The first balloon transmitted for 46.5 hours right into the day\n hemisphere before its lithium batteries failed, covering 11,600\n kilometers (6,960 miles). The threat of bursting in the day heat did\n not materialize. The VEGA 1 balloon was stationed at a 54-kilometer\n (32.4-mile) altitude after dropping ballast at fifty kilometers\n (thirty miles), for this was considered the most active of the three\n main cloud layers reported by PIONEER VENUS in 1978. Indeed the\n balloon was pushed across the planet at speeds up to 250 kilometers\n (150 miles) per hour. Strong vertical winds bobbed the craft up and\n down two to three hundred meters (660 to 990 feet) through most of the\n journey. The layer's air temperature averaged forty degrees Celsius\n (104 degrees Fahrenheit) and pressure was a mere 0.5 Earth atmosphere.\n The nephelometer could find no clear regions in the surrounding clouds. \n\n Early in the first balloon's flight, the VEGA 1 lander was already\n headed towards the Venerean surface. Both landers were equipped with\n a soil drill and analyzer similar to the ones carried on VENERA 13 \n and 14 in 1982. However, VEGA 1 would become unable to report the\n composition of the ground at its landing site in Rusalka Planitia, the\n Mermaid Plain north of Aphrodite Terra. While still ten to fifteen\n minutes away from landing, a timer malfunction caused the drill to \n accidentally begin its programmed activity sixteen kilometers (9.6 \n miles) above the surface. \n\n There was neither any way to shut off the instrument before\n touchdown nor reactivate it after landing. This was unfortunate not\n only for the general loss of data but also for the fact that most of\n Venus was covered with such smooth low-level lava plains and had never \n before been directly examined. Nevertheless, the surface temperature \n and pressure was calculated at 468 degrees Celsius (874.4 degrees \n Fahrenheit) and 95 Earth atmospheres respectively during the lander's \n 56 minutes of ground transmissions. A large amount of background \n infrared radiation was also recorded at the site.\n\n As had been done when the drills and cameras on VENERA 11 and \n 12 had failed in December of 1978, the Soviets focused on the data\n returned during the lander's plunge through the atmosphere. The\n French-Soviet Malachite mass spectrometer detected sulfur, chlorine, \n and possibly phosphorus. It is the sulfur - possibly from active \n volcanoes - which gives the Venerean clouds their yellowish color.\n The Sigma 3 gas chromatograph found that every cubic meter of air\n between an altitude of 48 and 63 kilometers (28.8 and 37.8 miles)\n contained one milligram (0.015 grain) of sulfuric acid.\n\n The VEGA 1 data on the overall structure of the cloud decks \n appeared to be at odds with the information from PIONEER VENUS.\n The case was made even stronger by the fact that VEGA 2's results\n nearly matched its twin. The VEGAs found only two main cloud layers \n instead of the three reported by the U.S. probes. The layers were \n three to five kilometers (1.8 to 3 miles) thick at altitudes of 50 \n and 58 kilometers (30 and 34.8 miles). The clouds persisted like a\n thin fog until clearing at an altitude of 35 kilometers (21 miles), \n much lower than the PV readings. One possibility for the discrepan-\n cies may have been radical structural changes in the Venerean air \n over the last seven years.\n\n When the lander and balloon finally went silent, the last \n functioning part of the VEGA 1 mission, the flyby bus, sailed on\n for a 708 million-kilometer (424.8 million-mile) journey around\n the Sun to become the first probe to meet comet Halley. On March\n 6, 1986, the bus made a 8,890-kilometer (5,334-mile) pass at the \n dark and icy visitor before traveling on in interplanetary space.\n The Soviets had accomplished their first mission to two celestial\n bodies with one space vessel.\n\n On June 13, VEGA 2 released its lander/balloon payload for\n a two-day fall towards Venus. Like its duplicate, the VEGA 2\n balloon radioed information back to the twenty antennae tracking\n it on Earth for 46.5 hours before battery failure on the morning\n side of the planet. During its 11,100-kilometer (6,660-mile)\n flight over Venus, the second balloon entered in a rather still\n environment which became less so twenty hours into the mission.\n After 33 hours mission time the air became even more turbulent \n for a further eight hours. When the balloon passed over a five-\n kilometer (three-mile) mountain on the \"continent\" of Aphrodite \n Terra, a powerful downdraft pulled the craft 2.5 kilometers (1.5 \n miles) towards the surface.\n\n Temperature sensors on the VEGA 2 balloon reported that the air \n layer it was moving through was consistently 6.5 degrees Celsius \n (43.7 degrees Fahrenheit) cooler than the area explored by the VEGA 1\n balloon. This was corroborated by the VEGA 2 lander as it passed \n through the balloon's level. No positive indications of lightning\n were made by either balloon, and the second aerostat's nephelometer \n failed to function.\n\n The VEGA 2 lander touched down on the northern edge of Aphrodite\n Terra's western arm on the fifteenth of June, 1,500 kilometers (900\n miles) southeast of VEGA 1. The lander's resting place was smoother\n than thought, indicating either a very ancient and worn surface or a\n relatively young one covered in fresh lava. The soil drill was in\n working order and reported a rock type known as anorthosite-troctolite, \n rare on Earth but present in Luna's highlands. This rock is rich in \n aluminum and silicon but lacking in iron and magnesium. A high degree \n of sulfur was also present in the soil. The air around VEGA 2 measured \n 463 degrees Celsius (865.4 degrees Fahrenheit) and 91 Earth atmospheres,\n essentially a typical day (or night) on Venus.\n\n Far above the VEGA 2 lander, its carrier bus sped past Venus at\n a distance of 24,500 kilometers (14,700 miles) and followed its twin \n to comet Halley, making a closer flyby on March 9, 1986 at just 8,030 \n kilometers (4,818 miles). Both probes helped to reveal that the comet \n is a very dark and irregular-shaped mass about fourteen kilometers \n (8.4 miles) across, rotating once every 53 hours, give or take three \n hours.\n\n Since both VEGA craft were still functioning after their Halley\n encounters, Soviet scientists considered an option to send the \n probes to other celestial objects. One prime target was the near-\n Earth planetoid 2101 Adonis, which VEGA 2 could pass at a distance \n of six million kilometers (3.6 million miles). Sadly, the Soviets \n had to back out on the opportunity to become the first nation to fly \n a spacecraft past a planetoid when it was discovered that there was \n not enough maneuvering fuel in the probe to reach Adonis as planned. \n VEGA 1 and 2 were quietly shut down in early 1987.\n\n Future Plans Diverted\n\n The impressive VEGA mission had given some scientists numerous \n ideas and hope for even more ambitious expeditions to the second \n world from the Sun. One example was the VESTA mission, planned for\n the early 1990s.\n\n This Soviet-French collaboration called for the launch of multiple \n probes on a single PROTON rocket in either 1991 or 1992. The craft \n would first swing by Venus and drop off several landers and balloon \n probes. The aerostats would be designed to survive in the planet's \n corrosive atmosphere for up to one month, a large improvement over \n the VEGA balloons' two days. The mission would then head out to \n investigate several planetoids and comets, including a possible \n landing on Vesta (thus the mission name), the most reflective Main \n Belt planetoid as seen from Earth.\n\n Unfortunately for Venus exploration, plans began to change in\n the Soviet Union. In 1986 the Soviets decided to reroute the VESTA\n mission to the red planet Mars instead of Venus, keeping the comet\n and planetoid aspects intact. By this time in the Soviet space \n program interest was focusing on Mars. Already under construction \n was an entirely new probe design called PHOBOS. Two members of this \n class were planned to leave Earth in 1988 and orbit Mars the next \n year. PHOBOS 1 and 2 would then place the first instruments on\n Mars' largest moon, Phobos. \n\n All this was a prelude to even more advanced Mars expeditions,\n including balloon probes, rovers, soil sample return craft, and \n eventually human explorers in the early Twenty-First Century.\n The environment of Venus was just too hostile for any serious\n consideration of human colonization in the near future.\n\n But things began to look bleak for Soviet Venus and Mars\n exploration. Both PHOBOS probes failed to complete their missions,\n one losing contact on the way to the Red Planet in 1988 and the other\n going silent in Mars orbit just one week before the planned moon\n landing in March of 1989. \n\n In 1989 a plan was devised for a Venus orbiter to drop eight to\n ten penetrators around the planet in 1998. Several years later the\n mission launch date was moved to the year 2005 and has now been put \n on indefinite hold. No other official Soviet missions to Venus have\n since been put forth, a sad commentary after twenty-five years of\n continuous robotic exploration of the planet. \n\n During the late 1980s a drastic political and economic change\n was taking over the Soviet Union. President Mikhail Gorbachev began \n to \"open up\" his nation to the benefits of increased cooperation with \n the rest of the nations, particularly those in the West. While the \n culture became less oppressive than in the past, the economy was taking \n a very rough ride as it also underwent the effects of a \"free market\".\n\n These effects hit everywhere, including the space program.\n Missions at all levels were cut back. The Soviets began making\n almost desperate attempts to cooperate with other space-faring\n nations either to keep their remaining programs alive or just to \n make money. \n\n In early 1992 it was reported that the Soviets were offering for \n sale several fully-equipped VENERAs they had in storage for the price \n of 1.6 million dollars each, an incredibly low price for any planetary \n probe. No nation took them up on the bargain. Meanwhile the United \n States was gearing up for new Venus missions of their own.\n\n MAGELLAN and GALILEO \n\n The U.S. reactivated their long-dormant planetary exploration\n with the launch of the Space Shuttle ATLANTIS on May 4, 1989.\n Aboard the Shuttle was the MAGELLAN spacecraft, a combination of\n spare parts from other U.S. probes designed to make the most \n detailed and complete radar-mapping of Venus in history. When\n MAGELLAN reached the second world in August of 1990, it would be\n able to map almost the entire planet down to a resolution of 108\n meters (360 feet), surpassing the abilities of VENERA 15 and 16.\n\n In the interim another American probe was launched from a Space \n Shuttle which would make a quick flyby of Venus on its way to orbit \n the giant planet Jupiter in 1995. On October 18, 1989, the Shuttle \n ATLANTIS released its second unmanned planetary probe into space, \n named GALILEO after the famous Italian astronomer who discovered the \n probe's primary target's major moons in 1610.\n\n In the absence of a powerful enough booster to send GALILEO on\n a direct flight to the Jovian planet, the probe was sent around\n Venus and Earth several times to build up enough speed to reach\n Jupiter. As a result, Venus became GALILEO's first planetary\n goal in February of 1990. The probe radioed back images of the\n planet's swirling clouds and further indications of lightning in\n that violent atmosphere.\n\n On the Drawing Boards\n\n With the incredible success of MAGELLAN in the last few years,\n new plans have been laid out for further journeys to Venus. Scien-\n tists in the U.S. have talked to space scientists in the former Soviet \n Union - now the Commonwealth of Independent States since January 1, \n 1992 - of a cooperative effort to launch new VENERA lander missions \n within in the next decade. Japan, India, and the ESA have also\n considered their own Venus missions in the next few decades.\n\n In February of 1993 NASA came up with several new Venus projects \n as part of their Discovery Program for launching inexpensive probes\n throughout the solar system. For Venus two missions were selected\n for further study: A Venus Multiprobe Mission involving the landing\n of fourteen small probes over one hemisphere to measure winds, air\n temperature, and pressure; and the Venus Composition Probe, designed\n to study Venus' atmosphere while descending through the thick air\n with the aid of a parachute, much as the Soviets had done since 1967.\n Final project decisions will be made in 1994.\n\n Humans on Venus \n\n Will a human ever be able to stand on the surface of Venus?\n At present the lead-melting temperatures and crushing air pressure\n would be threatening to any Earth life not protected in something\n even tougher than a VENERA lander. Plans have been looked into\n changing the environment of Venus itself into something more like\n Earth's. However, it should be noted that any such undertaking\n will require the removal of much of the thick carbon dioxide \n atmosphere, a major reduction in surface heat, and the ability \n to speed up the planet's rotation rate to something a bit faster\n than once every 243 Earth days. Such a project may take centuries\n if not millennia.\n\n In the meantime efforts should be made to better understand\n Venus as its exists today. We still have yet to fully know how\n a world so seemingly similar to Earth in many important ways became\n instead such a deadly place. Will Earth ever suffer this fate?\n Perhaps Venus holds the answers. Such answers may best be found\n through international cooperation, including the nation which \n made the first attempts to lift the cloudy veils from Venus.\n\n Bibliography -\n\n Barsukov, V. L., Senior Editor, VENUS GEOLOGY, GEOCHEMISTRY, AND \n GEOPHYSICS: RESEARCH RESULTS FROM THE U.S.S.R., University of\n Arizona Press, Tucson, 1992\n\n Beatty, J. Kelly, and Andrew Chaikin, Editors, THE NEW SOLAR \n SYSTEM, Cambridge University Press and Sky Publishing Corp.,\n Cambridge, Massachusetts, 1990\n\n Burgess, Eric, VENUS: AN ERRANT TWIN, Columbia University Press, \n New York, 1985\n\n Burrows, William E., EXPLORING SPACE: VOYAGES IN THE SOLAR\n SYSTEM AND BEYOND, Random House, Inc., New York, 1990\n\n Chaisson, Eric, and Steve McMillan, ASTRONOMY TODAY, Prentice-\n Hall, Inc., Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey, 1993\n\n Gatland, Kenneth, THE ILLUSTRATED ENCYCLOPEDIA OF SPACE TECHNOLOGY, \n Salamander Books, New York, 1989\n\n Greeley, Ronald, PLANETARY LANDSCAPES, Allen and Unwin, Inc.,\n Winchester, Massachusetts, 1987\n\n Hart, Douglas, THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF SOVIET SPACECRAFT, Exeter \n Books, New York, 1987\n\n Hartmann, William K., MOONS AND PLANETS (Third Edition), Wadsworth\n Publishing Company, Belmont, California, 1993\n\n Harvey, Brian, RACE INTO SPACE: THE SOVIET SPACE PROGRAMME, \n Ellis Howood Limited, Chichester, England, 1988\n\n Henbest, Nigel, THE PLANETS: PORTRAITS OF NEW WORLDS, Viking\n Penguin Books Ltd., Harmondsworth, Middlesex, England, 1992\n\n Johnson, Nicholas L., SOVIET SPACE PROGRAMS 1980-1985, Volume\n 66 Science and Technology Series, American Astronautical \n Society, Univelt, Inc., San Diego, California, 1987\n\n Johnson, Nicholas L., THE SOVIET YEAR IN SPACE 1989/1990, \n Teledyne Brown Engineering, Colorado Springs, Colorado,\n 1990/1991\n\n Lang, Kenneth R., and Charles A. Whitney, WANDERERS IN SPACE:\n EXPLORATION AND DISCOVERY IN THE SOLAR SYSTEM, Cambridge \n University Press, New York, 1991\n\n MAGELLAN: THE UNVEILING OF VENUS, JPL 400-345, March 1989\n\n Murray, Bruce, Michael C. Malin, and Ronald Greeley, EARTHLIKE\n PLANETS: SURFACES OF MERCURY, VENUS, EARTH, MOON, MARS, W. H.\n Freeman and Company, San Francisco, California, 1981\n\n Murray, Bruce, JOURNEY INTO SPACE: THE FIRST THREE DECADES OF\n SPACE EXPLORATION, W. W. Norton and Company, New York, 1989\n\n Newcott, William, \"Venus Revealed\", NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC MAGAZINE, \n Volume 183, Number 2, Washington, D.C., February 1993\n\n Nicks, Oran W., FAR TRAVELERS: THE EXPLORING MACHINES, NASA \n SP-480, Washington, D.C., 1985\n\n Oberg, James Edward, NEW EARTHS: RESTRUCTURING EARTH AND OTHER\n PLANETS, A Meridian Book, New American Library, Inc., New\n York, 1983\n\n Robertson, Donald F., \"Venus - A Prime Soviet Objective\" (Parts \n 1/2), SPACEFLIGHT, Volume 34, Numbers 5/6, British Interplanetary\n Society (BIS), London, England, May/June 1992\n\n Smith, Arthur, PLANETARY EXPLORATION: THIRTY YEARS OF UNMANNED\n SPACE PROBES, Patrick Stephens, Ltd., Wellingborough, Northamp-\n tonshire, England, 1988\n\n VOYAGE THROUGH THE UNIVERSE: THE NEAR PLANETS, By the Editors\n of Time-Life Books, Inc., Alexandria, Virginia, 1990\n\n Wilson, Andrew, JANE'S SOLAR SYSTEM LOG, Jane's Publishing, Inc.,\n New York, 1987\n\n About the Author -\n\n Larry Klaes, EJASA Editor, is the recipient of the ASA's 1990 \n Meritorious Service Award for his work as Editor of the EJASA since \n its founding in August of 1989. Larry also teaches a course on\n Basic Astronomy at the Concord-Carlisle Adult and Community \n Education Program in Massachusetts.\n\n Larry is the author of the following EJASA articles:\n\n \"The One Dream Man: Robert H. Goddard, Rocket Pioneer\" - August 1989\n \"Stopping Space and Light Pollution\" - September 1989 \n \"The Rocky Soviet Road to Mars\" - October 1989\n \"Astronomy and the Family\" - May 1991 \n \"The Soviets and Venus, Part 1\" - February 1993\n \"The Soviets and Venus, Part 2\" - March 1993\n\n\n THE ELECTRONIC JOURNAL OF THE ASTRONOMICAL SOCIETY OF THE ATLANTIC\n\n April 1993 - Vol. 4, No. 9", "Archive-name: space/schedule\nLast-modified: $Date: 93/04/01 14:39:23 $\n\nSPACE SHUTTLE ANSWERS, LAUNCH SCHEDULES, TV COVERAGE\n\n SHUTTLE LAUNCHINGS AND LANDINGS; SCHEDULES AND HOW TO SEE THEM\n\n Shuttle operations are discussed in the Usenet group sci.space.shuttle,\n and Ken Hollis (gandalf@pro-electric.cts.com) posts a compressed version\n of the shuttle manifest (launch dates and other information)\n periodically there. The manifest is also available from the Ames SPACE\n archive in SPACE/FAQ/manifest. The portion of his manifest formerly\n included in this FAQ has been removed; please refer to his posting or\n the archived copy. For the most up to date information on upcoming\n missions, call (407) 867-INFO (867-4636) at Kennedy Space Center.\n\n Official NASA shuttle status reports are posted to sci.space.news\n frequently.\n\n\n WHY DOES THE SHUTTLE ROLL JUST AFTER LIFTOFF?\n\n The following answer and translation are provided by Ken Jenks\n (kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov).\n\n The \"Ascent Guidance and Flight Control Training Manual,\" ASC G&C 2102,\n\n\t\"During the vertical rise phase, the launch pad attitude is\n\tcommanded until an I-loaded V(rel) sufficient to assure launch tower\n\tclearance is achieved. Then, the tilt maneuver (roll program)\n\torients the vehicle to a heads down attitude required to generate a\n\tnegative q-alpha, which in turn alleviates structural loading. Other\n\tadvantages with this attitude are performance gain, decreased abort\n\tmaneuver complexity, improved S-band look angles, and crew view of\n\tthe horizon. The tilt maneuver is also required to start gaining\n\tdownrange velocity to achieve the main engine cutoff (MECO) target\n\tin second stage.\"\n\n This really is a good answer, but it's couched in NASA jargon. I'll try\n to interpret.\n\n 1)\tWe wait until the Shuttle clears the tower before rolling.\n\n 2)\tThen, we roll the Shuttle around so that the angle of attack\n\tbetween the wind caused by passage through the atmosphere (the\n\t\"relative wind\") and the chord of the wings (the imaginary line\n\tbetween the leading edge and the trailing edge) is a slightly\n\tnegative angle (\"a negative q-alpha\").\tThis causes a little bit of\n\t\"downward\" force (toward the belly of the Orbiter, or the +Z\n\tdirection) and this force \"alleviates structural loading.\"\n\tWe have to be careful about those wings -- they're about the\n\tmost \"delicate\" part of the vehicle.\n\n 3)\tThe new attitude (after the roll) also allows us to carry more\n\tmass to orbit, or to achieve a higher orbit with the same mass, or\n\tto change the orbit to a higher or lower inclination than would be\n\tthe case if we didn't roll (\"performance gain\").\n\n 4)\tThe new attitude allows the crew to fly a less complicated\n\tflight path if they had to execute one of the more dangerous abort\n\tmaneuvers, the Return To Launch Site (\"decreased abort maneuver\n\tcomplexity\").\n\n 5)\tThe new attitude improves the ability for ground-based radio\n\tantennae to have a good line-of-sight signal with the S-band radio\n\tantennae on the Orbiter (\"improved S-band look angles\").\n\n 6)\tThe new attitude allows the crew to see the horizon, which is a\n\thelpful (but not mandatory) part of piloting any flying machine.\n\n 7)\tThe new attitude orients the Shuttle so that the body is\n\tmore nearly parallel with the ground, and the nose to the east\n\t(usually). This allows the thrust from the engines to add velocity\n\tin the correct direction to eventually achieve orbit. Remember:\n\tvelocity is a vector quantity made of both speed and direction.\n\tThe Shuttle has to have a large horizontal component to its\n\tvelocity and a very small vertical component to attain orbit.\n\n This all begs the question, \"Why isn't the launch pad oriented to give\n this nice attitude to begin with? Why does the Shuttle need to roll to\n achieve that attitude?\" The answer is that the pads were leftovers\n from the Apollo days. The Shuttle straddles two flame trenches -- one\n for the Solid Rocket Motor exhaust, one for the Space Shuttle Main\n Engine exhaust. (You can see the effects of this on any daytime\n launch. The SRM exhaust is dirty gray garbage, and the SSME exhaust is\n fluffy white steam. Watch for the difference between the \"top\"\n [Orbiter side] and the \"bottom\" [External Tank side] of the stack.) The\n access tower and other support and service structure are all oriented\n basically the same way they were for the Saturn V's. (A side note: the\n Saturn V's also had a roll program. Don't ask me why -- I'm a Shuttle\n guy.)\n\n I checked with a buddy in Ascent Dynamics.\tHe added that the \"roll\n maneuver\" is really a maneuver in all three axes: roll, pitch and yaw.\n The roll component of that maneuver is performed for the reasons\n stated. The pitch component controls loading on the wings by keeping\n the angle of attack (q-alpha) within a tight tolerance. The yaw\n component is used to determine the orbital inclination. The total\n maneuver is really expressed as a \"quaternion,\" a grad-level-math\n concept for combining all three rotation matrices in one four-element\n array.\n\n\n HOW TO RECEIVE THE NASA TV CHANNEL, NASA SELECT\n\n NASA SELECT is broadcast by satellite. If you have access to a satellite\n dish, you can find SELECT on Satcom F2R, Transponder 13, C-Band, 72\n degrees West Longitude, Audio 6.8, Frequency 3960 MHz. F2R is stationed\n over the Atlantic, and is increasingly difficult to receive from\n California and points west. During events of special interest (e.g.\n shuttle missions), SELECT is sometimes broadcast on a second satellite\n for these viewers.\n\n If you can't get a satellite feed, some cable operators carry SELECT.\n It's worth asking if yours doesn't.\n\n The SELECT schedule is found in the NASA Headline News which is\n frequently posted to sci.space.news. Generally it carries press\n conferences, briefings by NASA officials, and live coverage of shuttle\n missions and planetary encounters. SELECT has recently begun carrying\n much more secondary material (associated with SPACELINK) when missions\n are not being covered.\n\n\n AMATEUR RADIO FREQUENCIES FOR SHUTTLE MISSIONS\n\n The following are believed to rebroadcast space shuttle mission audio:\n\n\tW6FXN - Los Angeles\n\tK6MF - Ames Research Center, Mountain View, California\n\tWA3NAN - Goddard Space Flight Center (GSFC), Greenbelt, Maryland.\n\tW5RRR - Johnson Space Center (JSC), Houston, Texas\n\tW6VIO - Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), Pasadena, California.\n\tW1AW Voice Bulletins\n\n\tStation VHF\t 10m\t 15m\t 20m\t 40m\t 80m\n\t------\t ------ ------ ------ ------ -----\t-----\n\tW6FXN\t 145.46\n\tK6MF\t 145.585\t\t\t 7.165\t3.840\n\tWA3NAN\t 147.45 28.650 21.395 14.295 7.185\t3.860\n\tW5RRR\t 146.64 28.400 21.350 14.280 7.227\t3.850\n\tW6VIO\t 224.04\t\t 21.340 14.270\n\tW6VIO\t 224.04\t\t 21.280 14.282 7.165\t3.840\n\tW1AW\t\t 28.590 21.390 14.290 7.290\t3.990\n\n W5RRR transmits mission audio on 146.64, a special event station on the\n other frequencies supplying Keplerian Elements and mission information.\n\n W1AW also transmits on 147.555, 18.160. No mission audio but they\n transmit voice bulletins at 0245 and 0545 UTC.\n\n Frequencies in the 10-20m bands require USB and frequencies in the 40\n and 80m bands LSB. Use FM for the VHF frequencies.\n\n [This item was most recently updated courtesy of Gary Morris\n (g@telesoft.com, KK6YB, N5QWC)]\n\n\n SOLID ROCKET BOOSTER FUEL COMPOSITION\n\n Reference: \"Shuttle Flight Operations Manual\" Volume 8B - Solid Rocket\n Booster Systems, NASA Document JSC-12770\n\n Propellant Composition (percent)\n\n Ammonium perchlorate (oxidizer)\t\t\t69.6\n Aluminum\t\t\t\t\t\t16\n Iron Oxide (burn rate catalyst)\t\t\t0.4\n Polybutadiene-acrilic acid-acrylonitrile (a rubber) 12.04\n Epoxy curing agent\t\t\t\t\t1.96\n\n End reference\n\n Comment: The aluminum, rubber, and epoxy all burn with the oxidizer.", "The other week I saw a TV program about the american space industry and NASA.\nIt said that in the 60's they developed a rocket that used ions or nuclear\nparticles for propolsion.\nThe government however, didn't give them $1billion for the developement\nof a full scale rocket.\nDid anybody see this program?\nIf not, has anybody heard of the particle propolsion system?\n\nThanx. 8-)", "\nYou're assuming that the low-cost delivery system has to be a separate\nproject. But why? If you are spending hundreds of millions of dollars\nin hopes of winning a billion-dollar prize, it is *cheaper* to develop\nyour own launch system, charging its entire development cost against\nyour contest entry, than to try to do it with existing launchers. No\nother demand is necessary.\n\n\nYou're assuming that it's going to take a decade to build a new launch\nsystem. But why? The Saturn V took less than six years, depending on\nexactly when you date its start. Pegasus took about three from project\nstart to first flight. Before SDIO chickened out on orbital development,\nthe target date for an orbital DC-Y flight was 1996. If you really want\nspeed, consider that the first prototypes of the Thor missile (still in\nservice as the core of the Delta launcher) shipped to the USAF less\nthan 18 months after the development go-ahead.", "\nI don't know what you mean by 'edged', but surely there are two other\npossibilities for an isotropic distribution: near interstellar (up to\n~100 pc, i.e. within the disc), or the Galaxy's corona?\n\n", "Is there a few Grasp pictures of space related items, namely Space Station\nDesigns, so you can see the \"finished\" revolt around..\n\nIf you don't know what a grasp prograsm is.. Check out some adult entertainment\nfiles and see what I mean.. Or maybe geta few GIF files and create a \"slide\nshows\" (I think Cshow can do this).. ", "\n\n Let us hope that the performance of the spacecraft follows the\nsentiments of the first verse (miner) rather than the second (lost and gone\nforever).\n", "Last I had heard because of budget and such the Air Farce is the only \"Space\nCommand\" left.. The rest missions were generally given to the Air Farce..\n\nProbably a good reason for me to transfer from the Army Guard to the Air\nGuard..\n\nI hate walking with a pack on my back, and how do you put on your application\nfor a job as a kitchen worker, that you have done a lot of KP (Kitchen\nPolice)..", "The most current orbital elements from the NORAD two-line element sets are\ncarried on the Celestial BBS, (513) 427-0674, and are updated daily (when\npossible). Documentation and tracking software are also available on this\nsystem. As a service to the satellite user community, the most current\nelements for the current shuttle mission are provided below. The Celestial\nBBS may be accessed 24 hours/day at 300, 1200, 2400, 4800, or 9600 bps using\n8 data bits, 1 stop bit, no parity.\n\nElement sets (also updated daily), shuttle elements, and some documentation\nand software are also available via anonymous ftp from archive.afit.af.mil\n(129.92.1.66) in the directory pub/space.\n\nSTS 55 \n1 22640U 93 27 A 93117.91666666 .00044808 00000-0 13489-3 0 63\n2 22640 28.4614 259.3429 0005169 259.6342 61.8074 15.90673799 201", "Hey! If you can get it together, I'm all for it! I too am one of the poor\n(a college student) Get a bank account set aside, and set aside a big ass\ndata base and you will get my contribution. I'm setting aside as of now 10$ \na month. Not a slew of cash to be sure, but it's the best I can do. Let me\nknow what you guys come up with. I'm sure as hell not going anywhere.", " Batse alone isn't always used to determine position. WHen a\nparticularly bright burst occurs, There are a couple of other detectors that\ncatch it going off. Pioneer 10 or 11 is the one I'm getting at here. This\npuppy is far enough away, that if a bright burst happens nearby, the huge\nannulus created by it will hopefully intersect the line or general circle given\nby BATSE, and we can get a moderately accurate position. Say oh, 2 or 3\ndegrees. That is the closest anyone has ever gotten with it. \n Actually, my advisor, another classmate of mine, and me were talking\nthe other day about putting just one detector on one of the Pluto satellites. \nTHen we realized that the satellite alone is only carrying something like 200\npounds of eq. Well, a BATSE detector needs lead shielding to protect it, and 1\nalone weighs about 200 pounds itself.", "Hi guys,\n\tI've been hearing lots of talk on the net about DC-X and DC-Y,\nbut none of the many posts actually explain what they are !!! Sorry if\nthis is a FAQ, but would somebody please explain to me what they are.\nReply by Email please . . . thanks.\n\n\tAndy\n\najjb@adam4.bnsc.rl.ac.uk\n-- ", "Another fish to check out is Richard Rast -- he works\nfor Lockheed Missiles, but is on-site at NASA Johnson.\n\nNick Johnson at Kaman Sciences in Colo. Spgs and his\nfriend, Darren McKnight at Kaman in Alexandria, VA.\n\nGood luck.\n\nR. Landis", " \n My poor old physics intuition will be very surprised if these tiny\n masses, sitting very close to Jupiter, play any role whatsoever in the\n problem. Or, to put it more technically, the extra \"volume\" they add\n to the phase space of possible capture trajectories is negligible.\n \n Jupiter is 2E27 kg, while the Galilean satellites are around 1E23.\n \n Also, as I said, the few references that I've looked at do not\n mention outgassing or breakup as important processes. The important\n thing is a Jupiter-Sun-comet \"reverse slingshot\" that leads to a\n weakly Jupiter-bound orbit for the comet (at least a temporary one).", ": THe limit on space-walking is a function of suit supplies (MASS)\n: and Orbiter Duration. \n\n: In order to perform the re-boost of the HST, the OMS engines\n: will be fired for a long period. Now the shuttle is a heavy\n: thing. THe HST isn't light either. THe amount of OMS fuel\n: needed to fly both up is substantial. a small booster\n: carried up and used to boost HST on it's own will weigh significantly\n: less then the OMS fuel required to Boost both HST and SHUttle,\n: for a given orbital change. \n\n: From what i understand, the mass margins on the HST missions are\n: tight enough they can't even carry extra Suits or MMU's.\n\n: pat\n\nI haven't seen any specifics on the HST repair mission, but I can't see why\nthe mass margins are tight. What are they carrying up? Replacement components\n(WFPC II, COSTAR, gyros, solar panels, and probably a few others), all sorts of\ntools, EVA equipment, and as much OMS fuel and consumables as they can. This\nshould be lighter than the original HST deployment mission, which achieved the\nhighest altitude for a shuttle mission to date. And HST is now in a lower \norbit. \n\nSeems like the limiting factors would be crew fatigue and mission complexity.\n", "\n...\n\nHow can you tell they're identical?\n\nYou got one of them \"Star Drek: The Next Syndication\" neutrino\nscanners?", "I've just read Richard Langley's latest \"Navstar GPS Constellation Status\".\n\nIt states that the latest satellite was placed in Orbit Plane Position C-3.\nThere is already one satellite in that position. I know that it's almost\nten years since that satellite was launched but it's still in operation so\nwhy not use it until it goes off?\n\nWhy not instead place the new satellite at B-4 since that position is empty\nand by this measure have an almost complete GPS-constellation\n(23 out of 24)?\n\n/Thomas\n================================================================================\nEricsson Telecom, Stockholm, Sweden", "Archive-name: space/astronaut\nLast-modified: $Date: 93/04/01 14:39:02 $\n\nHOW TO BECOME AN ASTRONAUT\n\n First the short form, authored by Henry Spencer, then an official NASA\n announcement.\n\n Q. How do I become an astronaut?\n\n A. We will assume you mean a NASA astronaut, since it's probably\n impossible for a non-Russian to get into the cosmonaut corps (paying\n passengers are not professional cosmonauts), and the other nations have\n so few astronauts (and fly even fewer) that you're better off hoping to\n win a lottery. Becoming a shuttle pilot requires lots of fast-jet\n experience, which means a military flying career; forget that unless you\n want to do it anyway. So you want to become a shuttle \"mission\n specialist\".\n\n If you aren't a US citizen, become one; that is a must. After that,\n the crucial thing to remember is that the demand for such jobs vastly\n exceeds the supply. NASA's problem is not finding qualified people,\n but thinning the lineup down to manageable length.\tIt is not enough\n to be qualified; you must avoid being *dis*qualified for any reason,\n many of them in principle quite irrelevant to the job.\n\n Get a Ph.D. Specialize in something that involves getting your hands\n dirty with equipment, not just paper and pencil. Forget computer\n programming entirely; it will be done from the ground for the fore-\n seeable future. Degree(s) in one field plus work experience in\n another seems to be a frequent winner.\n\n Be in good physical condition, with good eyesight.\t(DO NOT get a\n radial keratomy or similar hack to improve your vision; nobody knows\n what sudden pressure changes would do to RKed eyes, and long-term\n effects are poorly understood. For that matter, avoid any other\n significant medical unknowns.) If you can pass a jet-pilot physical,\n you should be okay; if you can't, your chances are poor.\n\n Practise public speaking, and be conservative and conformist in\n appearance and actions; you've got a tough selling job ahead, trying\n to convince a cautious, conservative selection committee that you\n are better than hundreds of other applicants. (And, also, that you\n will be a credit to NASA after you are hired: public relations is\n a significant part of the job, and NASA's image is very prim and\n proper.) The image you want is squeaky-clean workaholic yuppie.\n Remember also that you will need a security clearance at some point,\n and Security considers everybody guilty until proven innocent.\n Keep your nose clean.\n\n Get a pilot's license and make flying your number one hobby;\n experienced pilots are known to be favored even for non-pilot jobs.\n\n Work for NASA; of 45 astronauts selected between 1984 and 1988,\n 43 were military or NASA employees, and the remaining two were\n a NASA consultant and Mae Jemison (the first black female astronaut).\n If you apply from outside NASA and miss, but they offer you a job\n at NASA, ***TAKE IT***; sometimes in the past this has meant \"you\n do look interesting but we want to know you a bit better first\".\n\n Think space: they want highly motivated people, so lose no chance\n to demonstrate motivation.\n\n Keep trying. Many astronauts didn't make it the first time.\n\n\n\n\n NASA\n National Aeronautics and Space Administration\n Lyndon B. Johnson Space Center\n Houston, Texas\n\n Announcement for Mission Specialist and Pilot Astronaut Candidates\n ==================================================================\n\n Astronaut Candidate Program\n ---------------------------\n\n The National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) has a need for\n Pilot Astronaut Candidates and Mission Specialist Astronaut Candidates\n to support the Space Shuttle Program. NASA is now accepting on a\n continuous basis and plans to select astronaut candidates as needed.\n\n Persons from both the civilian sector and the military services will be\n considered.\n\n All positions are located at the Lyndon B. Johnson Space Center in\n Houston, Texas, and will involved a 1-year training and evaluation\n program.\n\n Space Shuttle Program Description\n ---------------------------------\n\n The numerous successful flights of the Space Shuttle have demonstrated\n that operation and experimental investigations in space are becoming\n routine. The Space Shuttle Orbiter is launched into, and maneuvers in\n the Earth orbit performing missions lastling up to 30 days. It then\n returns to earth and is ready for another flight with payloads and\n flight crew.\n\n The Orbiter performs a variety of orbital missions including deployment\n and retrieval of satellites, service of existing satellites, operation\n of specialized laboratories (astronomy, earth sciences, materials\n processing, manufacturing), and other operations. These missions will\n eventually include the development and servicing of a permanent space\n station. The Orbiter also provides a staging capability for using higher\n orbits than can be achieved by the Orbiter itself. Users of the Space\n Shuttle's capabilities are both domestic and foreign and include\n government agencies and private industries.\n\n The crew normally consists of five people - the commander, the pilot,\n and three mission specialists. On occasion additional crew members are\n assigned. The commander, pilot, and mission specialists are NASA\n astronauts.\n\n Pilot Astronaut\n\n Pilot astronauts server as both Space Shuttle commanders and pilots.\n During flight the commander has onboard responsibility for the vehicle,\n crew, mission success and safety in flight. The pilot assists the\n commander in controlling and operating the vehicle. In addition, the\n pilot may assist in the deployment and retrieval of satellites utilizing\n the remote manipulator system, in extra-vehicular activities, and other\n payload operations.\n\n Mission Specialist Astronaut\n\n Mission specialist astronauts, working with the commander and pilot,\n have overall responsibility for the coordination of Shuttle operations\n in the areas of crew activity planning, consumables usage, and\n experiment and payload operations. Mission specialists are required to\n have a detailed knowledge of Shuttle systems, as well as detailed\n knowledge of the operational characteristics, mission requirements and\n objectives, and supporting systems and equipment for each of the\n experiments to be conducted on their assigned missions. Mission\n specialists will perform extra-vehicular activities, payload handling\n using the remote manipulator system, and perform or assist in specific\n experimental operations.\n\n Astronaut Candidate Program\n ===========================\n\n Basic Qualification Requirements\n --------------------------------\n\n Applicants MUST meet the following minimum requirements prior to\n submitting an application.\n\n Mission Specialist Astronaut Candidate:\n\n 1. Bachelor's degree from an accredited institution in engineering,\n biological science, physical science or mathematics. Degree must be\n followed by at least three years of related progressively responsible,\n professional experience. An advanced degree is desirable and may be\n substituted for part or all of the experience requirement (master's\n degree = 1 year, doctoral degree = 3 years). Quality of academic\n preparation is important.\n\n 2. Ability to pass a NASA class II space physical, which is similar to a\n civilian or military class II flight physical and includes the following\n specific standards:\n\n\t Distant visual acuity:\n\t 20/150 or better uncorrected,\n\t correctable to 20/20, each eye.\n\n\t Blood pressure:\n\t 140/90 measured in sitting position.\n\n 3. Height between 58.5 and 76 inches.\n\n Pilot Astronaut Candidate:\n\n 1. Bachelor's degree from an accredited institution in engineering,\n biological science, physical science or mathematics. Degree must be\n followed by at least three years of related progressively responsible,\n professional experience. An advanced degree is desirable. Quality of\n academic preparation is important.\n\n 2. At least 1000 hours pilot-in-command time in jet aircraft. Flight\n test experience highly desirable.\n\n 3. Ability to pass a NASA Class I space physical which is similar to a\n military or civilian Class I flight physical and includes the following\n specific standards:\n\n\t Distant visual acuity:\n\t 20/50 or better uncorrected\n\t correctable to 20/20, each eye.\n\n\t Blood pressure:\n\t 140/90 measured in sitting position.\n\n 4. Height between 64 and 76 inches.\n\n Citizenship Requirements\n\n Applications for the Astronaut Candidate Program must be citizens of\n the United States.\n\n Note on Academic Requirements\n\n Applicants for the Astronaut Candidate Program must meet the basic\n education requirements for NASA engineering and scientific positions --\n specifically: successful completion of standard professional curriculum\n in an accredited college or university leading to at least a bachelor's\n degree with major study in an appropriate field of engineering,\n biological science, physical science, or mathematics.\n\n The following degree fields, while related to engineering and the\n sciences, are not considered qualifying:\n - Degrees in technology (Engineering Technology, Aviation Technology,\n\tMedical Technology, etc.)\n - Degrees in Psychology (except for Clinical Psychology, Physiological\n\tPsychology, or Experimental Psychology which are qualifying).\n - Degrees in Nursing.\n - Degrees in social sciences (Geography, Anthropology, Archaeology, etc.)\n - Degrees in Aviation, Aviation Management or similar fields.\n\n Application Procedures\n ----------------------\n\n Civilian\n\n The application package may be obtained by writing to:\n\n\tNASA Johnson Space Center\n\tAstronaut Selection Office\n\tATTN: AHX\n\tHouston, TX 77058\n\n Civilian applications will be accepted on a continuous basis. When NASA\n decides to select additional astronaut candidates, consideration will be\n given only to those applications on hand on the date of decision is\n made. Applications received after that date will be retained and\n considered for the next selection. Applicants will be notified annually\n of the opportunity to update their applications and to indicate\n continued interest in being considered for the program. Those applicants\n who do not update their applications annually will be dropped from\n consideration, and their applications will not be retained. After the\n preliminary screening of applications, additional information may be\n requested for some applicants, and person listed on the application as\n supervisors and references may be contacted.\n\n Active Duty Military\n\n Active duty military personnel must submit applications to their\n respective military service and not directly to NASA. Application\n procedures will be disseminated by each service.\n\n Selection\n ---------\n\n Personal interviews and thorough medical evaluations will be required\n for both civilian and military applicants under final consideration.\n Once final selections have been made, all applicants who were considered\n will be notified of the outcome of the process.\n\n Selection rosters established through this process may be used for the\n selection of additional candidates during a one year period following\n their establishment.\n\n General Program Requirements\n\n Selected applicants will be designated Astronaut Candidates and will be\n assigned to the Astronaut Office at the Johnson Space Center, Houston,\n Texas. The astronaut candidates will undergo a 1 year training and\n evaluation period during which time they will be assigned technical or\n scientific responsibilities allowing them to contribute substantially to\n ongoing programs. They will also participate in the basic astronaut\n training program which is designed to develop the knowledge and skills\n required for formal mission training upon selection for a flight. Pilot\n astronaut candidates will maintain proficiency in NASA aircraft during\n their candidate period.\n\n Applicants should be aware that selection as an astronaut candidate does\n not insure selection as an astronaut. Final selection as an astronaut\n will depend on satisfactory completion of the 1 year training and\n evaluation period. Civilian candidates who successfully complete the\n training and evaluation and are selected as astronauts will become\n permanent Federal employees and will be expected to remain with NASA for\n a period of at least five years. Civilian candidates who are not\n selected as astronauts may be placed in other positions within NASA\n depending upon Agency requirements and manpower constraints at that\n time. Successful military candidates will be detailed to NASA for a\n specified tour of duty.\n\n NASA has an affirmative action program goal of having qualified\n minorities and women among those qualified as astronaut candidates.\n Therefore, qualified minorities and women are encouraged to apply.\n\n Pay and Benefits\n ----------------\n\n Civilians\n\n Salaries for civilian astronaut candidates are based on the Federal\n Governments General Schedule pay scales for grades GS-11 through GS-14,\n and are set in accordance with each individuals academic achievements\n and experience.\n\n Other benefits include vacation and sick leave, a retirement plan, and\n participation in group health and life insurance plans.\n\n Military\n\n Selected military personnel will be detailed to the Johnson Space Center\n but will remain in an active duty status for pay, benefits, leave, and\n other similar military matters.\n", "Comet P/Helin-Roman-Crockett also spent some time as a temporary\nsatellite to Jupiter a few years ago if you believe the calculations\nby Tancredi, G., Lindgren, M. and Rickman, H.(Astron. Astrophys., \n239, pp. 375-380, 1990).\n-- \n\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------", "\nI should be so lucky: the account number must have been rejected! :-)\n\n\nTo be accurate, it is \"Big Bang Ben\" MacDonald.\n\n\nI hope not. To think that I would inadvertantly give any pleasure to\nMulroney _really_ ruins my day. PS: Matthew Wall: a marvellous ending\nto the section on the Expos.\n\nor VINCE@VAXI.SSCL.UWO.CA; please identify any messages with the\nsubject line BBDDD\n\n\nRealizing the taterific importance of this work, John Palmer and I\nconcluded that we might be able to pool some resources. I have not yet\ngone through the archives that Jonathan sent to me; when I do, I will\nsend out an \"official\" introduction to the Deep Drive Derby.\n\nHowever, I wonder if we need to rename the project, now that the\nprincipal investigator and research archive have changed. Send your\nsuggestions for a rename of the study to me, at the address given\nabove.\n\nAnd, just think: it's opening day. Soon, the balls will be flying\nout (no, get your minds out of the gutter) of the ball parks, and\nhelpless bystanders will be injured by balls reentering the\natmosphere. (and you thought that meteorite showers were made of\nrocks!)\n\nWho will be the stars this year? Can anyone hope to combat Brad\nArnsberg's record start to last year?\n\nThe season is young, the balls newly rubbed in mud, the hot dogs\nstarting to boil for the rest of the year. Play ball (and take cover).\n\nAnd may all your sliders hang.", "If re-boosting the HST by carrying it with a shuttle would not damage it,\nthen why couldn't HST be brought back to earth and the repair job done\nhere?\n\nIs it because two shuttle flights would be required, adding to the alredy\nhorrendous expense?\n\nGruss,\nDr Bruce Scott The deadliest bullshit is\nMax-Planck-Institut fuer Plasmaphysik odorless and transparent\nbds at spl6n1.aug.ipp-garching.mpg.de -- W Gibson\n", " A cash award is OK. A time limit would be nice. You can't give away\nmining rights (assuming there's anything to mine) because you don't own\nthem.\n -----------------------------------------------------------------\n .sig files are like strings ... every yo-yo's got one.", "\nI'm not sure if this is a big issue, but it seems to me like it\nmight be -- up till now, all >1g forces applied to the mirror and\nits mounting (and nearly all =1g forces) have been applied along the\ntelescope's optical axis, and against the mirror's base. Reentry\nwould apply forces along roughly the same axis, but tending to pull\nthe mirror away from the mount, and the landing would apply on-edge\nforces to both the mirror and mount. It could be that one or both\nof these would not survive.\n\ngreg\n-- ", "Although the $1 billion scheme is a fantasy (it's an old canard in the space\nbusiness called \"trolling for billionaires\"), there is a good chance that a\nmuch smaller program ($65 million) will pass the 103rd Congress. This is the\nBack to the Moon bill, put together by the people who passed the Launch\nServices Purchase Act. The bill would incent private companies to develop\nlunar orbiters, with vendors selected on the basis of competitive bidding.\nThere is an aggregate cap on the bids of $65 million.\n \nHaving a single rich individual paying billions for lunar missions is probably\nworse than having the government bankroll a $65 million program, as the Delta\nClipper program has shown (DC-X was funded by SDIO at $59 million). We have a\nclear chance of making a lunar mission happen in this decade - as opposed to\nsimply wishing for our dreams to come true. Please support the Back to the\nMoon bill.\n \nFor more information, please send E-mail with your U.S. postal service\naddress.", "\ntry sci.energy", "Ken:\n\nYour arguments are thoughtful but you are going up against the Big\nBoys if you're tackling Henry. Allen Sherzer will doubtless chime in\non the subject of staggering operational costs, too. Good luck, son.\n\n\nAhem. The Russians are in the Free World now, or at least it would be\nPolitically Correct to contend so.\n\n\nIt will be tough to make DC-X succeed, and to turn it into an\noperational orbital vehicle. Doubtless it will fail to meet some of\nthe promised goals. The reason people are so fond of it is that it's\nthe *only* chance we have now, or will have for a *long* time to come,\nto develop a launch vehicle with radically lower costs. \n\nThere is no Shuttle successor in funded development, NASP is dwindling\naway, and ALS/NLS/Spacelifter sure as hell aren't gonna knock any\nzeroes off that $2000-$3000 per pound cost. Part of the blame for\nthis must be placed on a Shuttle program that consumes many annual\nbillions of the, er, Free World's available space cash. As you will\nno doubt hear from many correspondents in the days to come. (-:\n\nDC-X is an attempt to break out of the vicious cycle by keeping\ndevelopment costs low and flying incremental \"X-plane\" hardware.\nIt's been, to my mind, incredibly successful already-- they've built a\ncomplex prototype in under 600 days for under 60 megabucks. I would\nhave been extremely skeptical that this could be accomplished in 1990s\nAmerica, never mind flying the thing, getting a successor funded, or\nbuilding the DC-Y.\n\nI'm sure you know well that launch costs are THE basic problem for any\nexpansion of astronautics. I don't see a realistic prospect for\nbeating down those costs, for multi-ton payloads, anywhere else. If\nthe DC flops, it'll be business as usual in space. The Nineties and\nthe Double-Oughts will look just like the Seventies and Eighties, a\nprospect too depressing to bear.\n\n(Pegasus represents another assault on the problem from a different\ndirection. It doesn't lower cost-per-pound but it offers an orbital\nlaunch for under ten megabucks. It's creating its own market for\nsmall payloads.)\n\nI read the magazines and I've attended the last two IAFs. There are\nplenty of engineers with paper ideas for cheaper launch systems, some\nof them as good as or better than SSTO. There is no sign in today's\nworld that any of these designs will be allowed anywhere near an\nassembly line.\n\n[...deleting some things I'm not going to prove tonight...]\n\nStrawman. Is anybody seriously proposing this? References, please. \nThe DC must be developed in the real-world funding climate, which\nincludes a NASA ferociously committed to continuing Shuttle\noperations, as well as the \"bird in the hand\" argument your common\nsense tells you. If DC-Y flies at all, it flies alongside the\nShuttle, not instead of it.\n\nAlso, of course, DC-Y and its operational descendants will be useful\nfor a wide variety of jobs even if they are *not* man-rated.\n\n\nIf a DC-X successor can fly a 10,000-kg payload for $1M, or even $5M,\nrather than the $40M it now costs, more people will be able to afford\nmore payloads... for the same money, you can fly several satellites\ninstead of one. Big outfits can fly multi-satellite series. Little\noutfits will be able to fly spacecraft of their own, instead of\nbegging a ride. This is just supply and demand. You should be able\nto convince *yourself* that point 4 will be true, assuming DC makes a\nbig difference in costs. Do you have some reason to think not?", "\n: >There is an emergency oxygen system that is capable of maintaining a\n: >breathable atmosphere in the cabin for long enough to come down, even\n: >if there is something like a 5cm hole in the wall that nobody tries\n: >to plug.\n\nJosh Hopkins (jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu) replied:\n: Wow.\n\n: Double wow. Can you land a shuttle with a 5cm hole in the wall?\n\nPersonnally, I don't know, but I'd like to try it sometime.\n\nProgrammatically, yes, we can land an Orbiter with a 5 cm hole in\nthe wall -- provided that the thing which caused 5 cm hole didn't\ncause a Crit 1 failure on some of the internal systems. There are\na few places where a 5 cm hole would cause a Bad Day -- especially\nif the 5 cm hole went all the way through the Orbiter and out the\nother side, as could easily happen with a meteor strike. But a\nhole in the pressure vessel would cause us to immediately de-orbit\nto the next available landing site.\n\n-- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office\n kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (713) 483-4368", "\n\nThanks for the information!\n\nI assume p is the semi-major axis and e the eccentricity. The peri-\nhelion and aphelion are then given by p(1-e) and p(1+e), i.e., about\n2.90 and 3.95 AU respectively. For Jupiter, they are 4.95 and 5.45 AU.\nIf 1977 was after the temporary capture, this means that the comet\nended up in an orbit that comes no closer than 1 AU to Jupiter's --\nwhich I take to be a rough indication of how far from Jupiter it could\nget under Jupiter's influence.\n\n\nWhere 1 Jupiter radius = 71,000 km = 44,000 mi = 0.0005 AU. So the\n1970 figure seems unlikely to actually be anything but a perijove.\nIs that the case for the 1973 figure as well?\n-- \nMark Brader, SoftQuad Inc., Toronto\t\t\"Remember the Golgafrinchans\"\nutzoo!sq!msb, msb@sq.com\t\t\t\t\t-- Pete Granger", "\n\nThis is ok in my opinion as long as the stuff *returns to earth*.\n\n\nIf this turns out to be true, it's time to get seriously active in\nterrorism. This is unbelievable! Who do those people think they are,\nselling every bit that promises to make money? I guess we really\ndeserve being wiped out by uv radiation, folks. \"Stupidity wins\". I\nguess that's true, and if only by pure numbers.\n\n\tAnother depressed planetary citizen,\n\thoover\n\n\n", "\n\n\n\nFrom the description I've read, it's prob. only going to be\nas bright as Jupiter. Anything else is probably hype from the\nopponents or wishful thinking from the sponsors.\n\nIf we could do something as bright as the full moon that soon,\nthat cheap, the CIS would have done it already.\n\n", "\nFor the purpose of a contest, I'd bet some things could be cut. Like fuel\nfor re-entry, any kind of heat shielding, etc., etc. Even still, if the\ncontest participants had to fund DC-1 development, it probably wouldn't be\nworth it to develop DC-1 (just for the contest). Just give me the cheapest\nheaviest lift man rated (or at least under 6 or so Gs) booster... If I\ndon't have to pay for DC-1 development, great!, I'll use it.\n\nBut back to the contest goals, there was a recent article in AW&ST about a\nlow cost (it's all relative...) manned return to the moon. A General\nDynamics scheme involving a Titan IV & Shuttle to lift a Centaur upper\nstage, LEV, and crew capsule. The mission consists of delivering two\nunmanned payloads to the lunar surface, followed by a manned mission. \nTotal cost: US was $10-$13 billion. Joint ESA(?)/NASA project was $6-$9\nbillion for the US share.\n\nI didn't find a mention of how long the crew could stay, but I'd bet that\nits around 30 days. And the total payload delivered was about 30 metric\ntonnes. So if you ignore the scientific payload, hitch a ride in the crew\nhabitation module (no return trip...), and toss in a few more tonnes for\nthe additional consumables to last another 11 months, then you *might* be\nable to get a year visit out of 15 tonnes (and in case its not obvious,\nthat's a wild ass guess). A pretty boring visit, since every trip outdoors\neats up a bit of LOX. And I'm not certain if a home brewed (or\ncollege-brewed) life support system could last a year. But let's round\nthis up to 19.4 tonnes (convient, since the GD plan talks about 9.7 ton\npayloads delivered to the lunar surface. This adds up to two Centaurs, two\nLEVs, two Shuttle flights... All to put a single man on the moon for a\nyear. Hmmm. Not really practical. Anyone got a cheaper/better way of\ndelivering 15-20 tonnes to the lunar surface within the decade? Anyone\nhave a more precise guess about how much a year's supply of consumables and\nequipment would weigh?\n\nAnd I was wondering about the GD LEV. Is it reusable? Or is it discarded\nto burn up on return to LEO? If its not discarded, could it be refueled? \nHenry: Do you know anything about the GD LEV? I noted that it uses RL-10\nengines. Aren't they reusable/restartable? Would a LEV fit in a DC-1? \nI've forgotten (if I ever knew) what the cargo bay dimensions are for the\nDC-1.\n\nAll in all, I'm not certain that the single goal/prize of staying on the\nmoon for a year is wise and/or useful. How about: A prize for the first\nnon-government sponsered unmanned moon landing, then another for a manned\nmoon landing, then yet another for a system to extract consumables from\nlunar soil, another for a reusable earth/moon shuttle, and so forth. Find\nsome way to build civilian moonbase infrastructure... Having a single goal\nmight result in a bunch of contestents giving up after one person appeared\nto win. And for those that didn't give up, I find something a little scary\nabout a half dozen people huddling in rickety little moon shelters. I'd\nlike to see as much a reward for co-operation as for competition.\n\nLastly, about ten or fifteen years back I seem to recall that there was an\nEnglish space magazine that had an on-going discussion about moonbases on\nthe cheap. I recalled it discussed things like how much heat the human\nbody produced, how much lunar material it'd need for protection from solar\nflares, etc. Unfortunately I don't remember the name of this magazine. \nDoes this ring a bell to anyone?", "In <19APR199320262420@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov> baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov \n\nSorry I think I missed a bit of info on this Transition Experiment. What is it?\n\nWill this mean a loss of data or will the Magellan transmit data later on ??\n\nBTW: When will NASA cut off the connection with Magellan?? Not that I am\nlooking forward to that day but I am just curious. I believe it had something\nto do with the funding from the goverment (or rather _NO_ funding :-)\n\nok that's it for now. See you guys around,\nJurriaan.\n ", "\n\n >This is turning into 'what's a moonbase good for', and I ought not\n >to post when I've a hundred some odd posts to go, but I would\n >think that the real reason to have a moon base is economic.\n >\n >Since someone with space industry will presumeably have a much\n >larger GNP than they would _without_ space industry, eventually,\n >they will simply be able to afford more stuff.\n\n If I read you right, you're saying in essence that, with a larger\n economy, nations will have more discretionary funds to *waste* on a\n lunar facility. That was certainly partially the case with Apollo,\n but real Lunar colonies will probably require a continuing\n military, scientific, or commercial reason for being rather than\n just a \"we have the money, why not?\" approach.\n\nAh, but the whole point is that money spent on a lunar base is not\nwasted on the moon. It's not like they'd be using $1000 (1000R?) bills\nto fuel their moon-dozers. The money to fund a lunar base would be\nspent in the country to which the base belonged. It's a way of funding\nhigh-tech research, just like DARPA was a good excuse to fund various\nfields of research, under the pretense that it was crucial to the\ndefense of the country, or like ESPRIT is a good excuse for the EC to\nfund research, under the pretense that it's good for pan-European\ncooperation.\n\nNow maybe you think that government-funded research is a waste of\nmoney (in fact, I'm pretty sure you do), but it does count as\ninvestment spending, which does boost the economy (and just look at\nthe size of that multiplier :->).", "The most current orbital elements from the NORAD two-line element sets are\ncarried on the Celestial BBS, (513) 427-0674, and are updated daily (when\npossible). Documentation and tracking software are also available on this\nsystem. As a service to the satellite user community, the most current\nelements for the current shuttle mission are provided below. The Celestial\nBBS may be accessed 24 hours/day at 300, 1200, 2400, 4800, or 9600 bps using\n8 data bits, 1 stop bit, no parity.\n\nElement sets (also updated daily), shuttle elements, and some documentation\nand software are also available via anonymous ftp from archive.afit.af.mil\n(129.92.1.66) in the directory pub/space.\n\nSTS 55 \n1 22640U 93 27 A 93119.24999999 .00041555 00000-0 12437-3 0 90\n2 22640 28.4657 249.3697 0008512 260.9747 152.1416 15.90732913 425", "Commericial support for exploration examples:\n\nAlso much if Baranovs exploration and Utilization of Alaska (Russian America,\nalso included parts of Washington state, Oregon, and N. California) was doen by\nprivate funds (yes some royal governmental funds at times..)..", "\n\nEven worse, the city of Atlanta has a proposal before it to rent space on this\norbiting billboard. Considering the caliber of people running this city, \nthere's no telling what we're going to have leering down at us from orbit.", "\nThe variance from perfect sphericity in a model of the earth small enough\nto fit into your home would probably be imperceptible.\n\nAny globe you can buy will be close enough.\n\n\n\n\n-- ", "From article <1993Apr27.004240.24401@csi.jpl.nasa.gov>, by eldred@rrunner.jpl.nasa.gov (Dan Eldred):", "Hi,\n \n I'm writing a science fiction script and I'm looking for some\nanswers to questions regarding the Moon and Earth. My starting point\nis an impossible situation. [I checked with a professor at berkeley\nand his response was a VERY helpful \"can't happen\".] If you enjoy\nplaying with unusual ideas and are willing answer some questions\nplease contact me via e-mail (jennise@dgi.com).\n\n I get extremely annoyed when screen and tele-plays ignore basic\nfacts about computers that I'm determined to be as scientifically\naccurate as I can.\n\n\n Sorry for being vague, but I'd like to protect my idea as much as I\ncan until I'm ready to sell it (hopefully).", "Archive-name: space/mnemonics\nLast-modified: $Date: 93/04/01 14:39:14 $\n\nASTRONOMICAL MNEMONICS (This is the last FAQ section posted to sci.astro)\n\n Gathered from various flurries of mnemonic postings on sci.astro.\n\n Spectral classification sequence: O B A F G K M R N S\n\n\tOh Be A Fine Girl Kiss Me Right Now, Sweetheart. (a classic)\n\n\tO'Dell's Big Astronomical Fiasco Gonna Kill Me Right Now Surely\n\tObese Balding Astronomy Found Guilty; Killed Many Reluctant\n\t Nonscience Students.\n\tOctopus Brains, A Favorite Gastronomical Kitchen Menu,\n\t Requires No Sauce\n\tOdd Ball Astronomers Find Generally Kooky Mnemonics\n\t Really Nifty Stuff\n\tOh Big And Ferocious Gorilla, Kill My Roomate Next Saturday\n\tOh Boy, A Flash! Godzilla Kills Mothra! Really Not Surprising!\n\tOh Boy, An F Grade Kills Me\n\tOn Bad Afternoons Fermented Grapes Keep Mrs. Richard Nixon Smiling\n\tOn, Backward Astronomer, Forget Geocentricity; Kepler's Motions\n\t Reveal Nature's Simplicity\n\tOur Bad Astronomy Faculty Gets Killed Monday\n\tOven Baked Ants, Fried Gently, Kept Moist, Retain Natural Succulence\n\tOverseas Broadcast: A Flash! Godzilla kills Mothra!\n\t (Rodan Named Successor)\n\tOverweight Boys and Fat Girls Keep Munching\n\tOnly Bored Astronomers Find Gratification Knowing Mnemonics\n\tOh Bloody Astronomy! F Grades Kill Me\n\n Order of the planets:\n\n\tSun\n\tMercury\n\tVenus\n\tEarth (Terra)\n\tMars\n\t(Asteroids)\n\tJupiter\n\tSaturn\n\tUranus\n\tNeptune\n\tPluto\n\n\tMy Very Earnest Mother Just Served Us Nine Pizzas\n\tMother Very Thoughtfully Made A Jelly Sandwich Under No Protest\n\tMy Very Erotic Mate Joyfully Satisfies Unusual Needs Passionately\n\tMen Very Easily Make Jugs Serve Useful Nocturnal Purposes\n\tMan Very Early Made A Jug Serve Useful Noble Purposes\n\tMy Very Educated Mother Just Showed Us Nine Planets\n\tMy Very Eager Mother Just Showed Us Nine Planets\n\tMy Very Exhausted Mother hAs Just Swept Up a Planetary Nebula\n\tMost Voters Earn Money Just Showing Up Near Polls\n\tMy Very Educated Mother Just Served Us Nine Pizza-pies\n\tMany Viscious Elephants Made John, Suzy and Uncle Need Protection\n\tSolar Mass Very Easily Makes All Jupiter's Satellites Undergo\n\t Numerous Perturbations.\n\n\tMein Vater erklaert mir jeden Sonntag unsere niedlichen Planeten\n\t (My Father explains to me every Sunday our nine planets)\n\tMan verachte einen Menschen in seinem Unglueck nie -- Punkt\n\t (Never scorn/despise a person in his misfortune/bad luck/misery\n\t\t-- period!)\n\n Colors of the spectrum: Red Orange Yellow Green Blue Indigo Violet\n\tROY G. BIV (pronounce as a man's name)\n\tRichard Of York Gave Battle In Vain\n\tRead Out Your Good Book In Verse\n\n Galilean Satellite of Jupiter: Io Europa Ganymede Callisto\n\tI Expect God Cries\n\tI Eat Green Cheese\n\tI Embarrass Good Christians\n\n\tIch erschrecke all guten Christen\n\t (I scare all good Christians)\n\n Saturnian Satellites\n\tMET DR THIP\n\tMiriam's Enchiladas Taste Divine Recently. Tell Her I'm Proud.\n\t(Mimas, Enceladus, Tethys, Dione, Rhea, Titan, Hyperion,\n\t Iapetus, Phoebe)\n\n Uranian Satellites:\n\tMAUTO\n\tMispronunciations Afflict Uranus Too Often\n\tMy Angel Uriel Takes Opium\n\t(Miranda, Ariel, Umbriel, Titania, Oberon)\n\nNOTE: the remaining FAQ sections do not appear in sci.astro, as they cover\n material of relevance only to sci.space.", "\n\nExactly. Some of the SPACE:1999 effects remain first-rate even today. \n \n\nLater on, the Andersons tried to shed their reputation as creators of some\nof the worst pseudo-scientific shows in TV history by flying \"Into Infinity.\"\nThis was a one-off thing done as part of BBC's \"educational SF\" series \"The\nDay After Tomorrow.\" The Anderson episode dealt with a spaceship capable of\nreaching the speed of light (\"lightship Altares\"), the four-man crew eventually \njourneyed into a black hole and ended up on the far side of the galaxy (I\nthink). I saw this as a 9-year-old back in 1976 and liked it very much, but\nthen again I was a fan of SPACE:1999 so I guess I was easily satisfied in those\ndays:-)\n---\nDoes anyone know if \"Into Infinity\" has been released on video? I have some\nSPACE:1999 shows on VHS and know that Thunderbirds etc. also are available in\nEngland.", "\n\nDC-X as is today isn't suitable for this. However, the followon SDIO\nfunds will. A reusable sounding rocket was always SDIO's goal.\n\n\nSo did I. There is a lot going on now and some reports are due soon \nwhich should be very favorable. The insiders have been very bush briefing\nthe right people and it is now paying off.\n\nHowever, public support is STILL critical. In politics you need to keep\nconstant pressure on elected officials.\n\n Allen\n", "\nNope, you're confusing separate programs. Atlas was the first-generation\nUS ICBM; Titan I was the second-generation one; Titan II, which all the\nTitan launchers are based on, was the third-generation heavy ICBM. There\nwas essentially nothing in common between these three programs.\n\n(Yes, *three* programs. Despite the similarity of names, Titan I and\nTitan II were completely different missiles. They didn't even use the\nsame fuels, never mind the same launch facilities.)\n", "\nI think you've got an off-by-one error in your memory. :-) MM bought the\nsatellite-building side of GE. E, not D. MM and GD are still competitors.\n\n\nBetter, yes, but we're not talking order of magnitude. (Especially if you\nwant to use Titan IV, which belongs to the USAF, not MM.)\n\n\nSure, you can get a heavylift launcher fairly cheap if you do it privately\nrather than as a gummint project. But we're still talking about something\nthat will cost nine digits per launch, unless you can guarantee a large\nmarket to justify volume production.", "\nActually I favor government funded research. It *is* a pump prime\nfor a lot of basic technologies. I also understand the short term\nvalue of high tech welfare programs. But they can't substitute for\nlong range wealth generation via commercial enterprise. That's what's\nneeded to maintain a healthy economy *anywhere*, on Earth or Luna.\nI don't see that long term potential on Luna due to a bunch of\nfactors I outline in another post.\n\nGary", "\n\nWow. I was beginning to think that I had made that up. I remember that\nmovie (it was about 1.5 hours long). I don't think they ended up anywhere\nin the known universe. \n\nI remember they got a message halfway out to Proxima Centauri, that Earth\ntransmitted a day after they launched, timed to catch up with them at the\nhalfway point. I thought it was neat, I think I was all of 10 at the time.\n\n \nSpace:1999 has just come out with 4 episodes released in American stores.\nI will look for the Into Infinity show, I never did know that was the\nname of it, I thought the show was called \"the day after tomorrow\", and\nthat was it.\n", "[Lots of stuff about how the commerical moonbase=fantasyland]\n\nThen what do you believe will finally motivate people to leave the \nearth? I'm not trying to flame you. I just want to know where you \nstand.\n\n-Chuck\n---\n*******************************************************************\n\n\tChuck Chung\t\t\t\t(919) 660-2539 (O)\n\tDuke University Dept. of Physics\t(919) 684-1517 (H)\n\tDurham, N.C. 27706\t\t\tcchung@phy.duke.edu\n\t\n\t\"If pro is the opposite of con, \n\t\tthen what is the opposite of progress?\"", "\n\n\nThe name is rather descriptive. It's a command to the spacecraft that tells\nit \"If you don't hear from Earth after 264 hours, assume something is wrong\nwith your (the spacecraft) attitude, and go into a preprogrammed search mode\nin an attempt to reacquire the signal from Earth.\"", "Original to: keithley@apple.com\nG'day keithley@apple.com\n\n21 Apr 93 22:25, keithley@apple.com wrote to All:\n\n kc> keithley@apple.com (Craig Keithley), via Kralizec 3:713/602\n\n\n kc> But back to the contest goals, there was a recent article in AW&ST\nabout a\n kc> low cost (it's all relative...) manned return to the moon. A General\n kc> Dynamics scheme involving a Titan IV & Shuttle to lift a Centaur upper\n kc> stage, LEV, and crew capsule. The mission consists of delivering two\n kc> unmanned payloads to the lunar surface, followed by a manned mission.\n kc> Total cost: US was $10-$13 billion. Joint ESA(?)/NASA project was\n$6-$9\n kc> billion for the US share.\n\n kc> moon for a year. Hmmm. Not really practical. Anyone got a\n kc> cheaper/better way of delivering 15-20 tonnes to the lunar surface\nwithin\n kc> the decade? Anyone have a more precise guess about how much a year's\n kc> supply of consumables and equipment would weigh?\n\nWhy not modify the GD plan into Zurbrin's Compact Moon Direct scheme? let\none of those early flight carry an O2 plant and make your own.\n\nta\n\nRalph", "\n\n TRIAD, the first drag-free satellite, was designed and built by the \nJohns Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory and launched 2 Sept 1972. The \nsatellite was in three sections separated by two booms. The central section \nhoused the DISCOS Disturbance Compensation System, which consisted of a proof \nmass of special non-magnetic alloy housed within a spherical cavity. The \nproof mass flew a true gravitational orbit, free from drag and radiation \npressure. Teflon microthrusters kept the body of the satellite centered \naround the proof mass, thereby flying the entire satellite drag free.\n\n TRIAD was one of the APL-designed Navy Navigation Satellites. The \n2nd-generation operational navigation satellites flying today (NOVA) use a \nsingle-axis version of DISCOS. TRIAD was also the sixth APL satellite to be \npowered by an RTG (APL flew the first nuclear power supply in space, in 1961).\n\n Further info on TRIAD, DISCOS, etc. can be found in \"Spacecraft Design \nInnovations in the APL Space Department,\" Johns Hopkins APL Technical Digest, \nVol. 13, No. 1 (1992).", "\n\n\n\nMy information shows that the last San Marco launch was 1988. There seem to \nhave been a total of seven before that. I seem to recall that someone, either\nASI or the University of Rome (?) includes money in their annual budget for\nmaintainance of the platforms (there are actually two).\n\nThe Italians have been spending money to develop an advanced Scout. However,\nrecent events in the Italian space program, and the Italian government overall\nmake me skeptical that this will get off the ground in the near future.", "\nSorry to put a damper on your plans, but I was there three weeks ago and\nit wasn't there. Not that I would have known to look for it, of course,\nbut I combed the space exhibits pretty thoroughly and something like that\nwould have caught my attention instantly.\n", "I have often thought about, if its possible to have a powerfull laser\non earth, to light at the Moon, and show lasergraphics at the surface\nso clearly that you can see it with your eyes when there is a new\nmoon.\n\nHow about a Coca Cola logo at the moon, easy way to target billions of\npeople.\n\nDo you know if its possible?\n\n", " \n \n Of course; sorry for the misunderstanding. I was referring to the fact\nthat far more aeronautical development took place in the '30's. For much\nof the '20's, the super-abundance of Jennies and OX-5 engines held down the\nindustry. By 1926, many of the obsolete WWI aircraft had been retired\nand Whirlwind had their power/weight ratio and reliability up to the point\nwhere long-distance flights became practical. It's important to note that\nthe Atlantic was flown not once but THREE times in 1927: Lindbergh,\nChamberlin and Levine, and Byrd's _America_. \"When it's time to railroad,\nyou railroad.\"\n\n\n Not off the top of my head; I'll have to dig out my reference books again.\nHowever, I will say that the most common arrangement in Prince Henry the\nNavigator's Portugal was for the prince to put up part of the money and\nmerchants to put up the rest. They profits from the voyage would then be\nshared.\n\n\n The problem is that the amount of prize money required to inspire a\nMoon Base is much larger than any but a handful of individuals or corporations\ncan even consider putting up. The Kremer Prizes (human powered aircraft),\nOrteig's prize, Lord Northcliffe's prize for crossing the Atlantic (won in\n1919 by Alcock and Brown) were MUCH smaller. The technologies required were\nwithin the reach of individual inventors, and the prize amounts were well\nwithin the reach of a large number of wealthy individuals. I think that only\na gov't could afford to set up a $1B+ prize for any purpose whatsoever.\n Note that Burt Rutan suggested that NASP could be built most cheaply by\ntaking out an ad in AvWeek stating that the first company to build a plane\nthat could take off and fly the profile would be handed $3B, no questions\nasked.\n", "[questions and issues WRT congress raised and discussed}\n\nDennis Replies;\n...\n\nDennis, why must you always see things in black and white terms? :-)\n\n-Tommy Mac\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTom McWilliams 517-355-2178 wk \\\\ As the radius of vision increases,\n18084tm@ibm.cl.msu.edu 336-9591 hm \\\\ the circumference of mystery grows.", "What are those other objects? UFOs????\n", "\nNope, I haven't seen the film, but Taylor's biography (\"The Curve of \nBinding Energy\") contains a short section on Orion and this test flight.\nApparently it was quite impressi, and got von Braun very excited.\n\nIn Real Life:Mike Williams | Perpetual Grad Student\ne-mail :mrw9e@virginia.edu| - It's not just a job, it's an indenture", "\n\n\n\nYou may want to put Hubble back in the payload bay for a reboost,\nand you don't want to clip off the panels each time.\n\nFor the Gamma-Ray Observatory, one of the design requirements was that\nthere be no stored-energy mecahnisms (springs, explosive squibs, gas shocks,\netc.) used for deployment. This was partially so that everything could\nbe reeled back in to put it back in the payload bay, and partially for\nsafety considerations. (I've heard that the wings on a cruise missile\nwould cut you in half if you were standing in their swath when they opened.)\n\nBack when the shuttle would be going up every other day with a cost to\norbit of $3.95 per pound :-), everybody designed things for easy servicing.\n", "Just had the opportunity to watch this flick on A&E -- some 15 years\nsince I saw it last. \n\nI was very interested in the technology demonstrated in this film\nfor handling infectious diseases (and similar toxic substances).\nClearly they \"faked\" a lot of the computer & robotic technology;\ncertainly at the time it was made most of that was science fiction\nitself, let alone the idea of a \"space germ\". \n\nQuite coincidentally [actually this is what got me wanted to see\nthe movie again] I watched a segment on the otherwise awful _How'd\nThey Do That?_ dealing with a disease researcher at the CDC's top\nlab. There was description of the elaborate security measures taken\nso that building will never be \"cracked\" so to speak by man or\nnature (short of deliberate bombing from the air, perhaps). And\nthe researchers used \"spacesuits\" similar to that in the film.\n\nI'm curious what people think about this film -- short of \"silly\".\nIs such a facility technically feasible today? \n\nAs far as the plot, and the crystalline structure that is not Life\nAs We Know It, that's a whole 'nother argument for rec.arts.sf.tech\nor something.", "\nThere is a wonderful book by Jean Meeus called\n\"Astronomical Algorithms,\" (1991) which I am fairly sure\ncontains an algorithm for sunrise and sunset times.\n\n\nDan Asimov\nMail Stop T045-1\nNASA Ames Research Center\nMoffett Field, CA 94035-1000", "Forwarded from the Mars Observer Project\n\n MARS OBSERVER STATUS REPORT\n April 28, 1993\n 12:40 PM PDT\n\nFlight Sequence C9 is active as of 00:11 AM, Tuesday, April 27. With\nactivities beginning at shortly before 5:00 AM yesterday, C9 commanded\nthe spacecraft to execute a series of slews and rolls to provide the MAG\n(Magnetometer) Team data points in varying spacecraft attitudes and\norientations for the purpose of better characterizing the\nspacecraft-generated magnetic field and its effect on their instrument.\n\nThe spacecraft was commanded back to Sun Star Init state at 9:07 AM to\nre-establish Inertial Reference. Transition back to Array Normal Spin\nbegan at 11:17 AM, after which the sequence powered on the on-board\ntransmitter at 11:18 AM. Telemetry reacquisition occurred at\napproximately 11:30 AM at the 4 KBS Science and Engineering downlink\ndata rate on the High Gain Antenna. Subsystem engineers report that all\nsystems appear to be nominal. The command to terminate using the Low\nGain Antenna for uplink was sent at 12:31 PM. Uplink and Downlink are\ncurrently via the HGA.\n\nMAG Calibration data has been recorded on Digital Tape Recorders 2 and 3.\nPlayback of DTR 2 is scheduled to take place tomorrow morning between\n8:11 AM and 12:42 PM. Playback of DTR 3 is scheduled to take place\ntomorrow evening beginning at 11:57 PM and ending at 4:28 AM on Friday.\nDTR playback will be performed via the High Gain Antenna at 42,667 bits\nper second. Upon verification of successful DTR playbacks, downlink will\nbe maintained at the 4K S & E rate.", "\nNope, here I am:\tdavid@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDavid Smyth\t\t\t\tdavid@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov\nSenior Software Engineer,\t\t(818)306-6193 (do NOT use v-mail yet!)\nCCCP, X and Object Guru.\t\toffice: 525/C165\nJet Propulsion Lab, M/S 525-3660 4800 Oak Grove Drive, Pasadena, CA 91109\n------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n\t\"That Sun Windows thingy, what's it called? You know, its\n\treally awful. X? Motif? That's it - Motif! Yuck!\"", "With the continuin talk about the \"End of the Space Age\" and complaints \nby government over the large cost, why not try something I read about \nthat might just work.\n\nAnnounce that a reward of $1 billion would go to the first corporation \nwho successfully keeps at least 1 person alive on the moon for a year. \nThen you'd see some of the inexpensive but not popular technologies begin \nto be developed. THere'd be a different kind of space race then!\n", "\n\"Let's make a deal!\" If you're going to put up a billion, I'd want to budget\nthe whole sheebang for $450-600 million. If I have that much money to throw\naround in the first place, you betcha I'm going to sign a contract committing\nto volume production...\n\n", " Other idea for old space crafts is as navigation beacons and such..\n Why not??\n\nBecause to be any use as a nav point you need to know -exactly- where\nit is, which means you either nail it to something that doesn't move\nor you watch it all the time. Neither of which is possible on a\ndeactivated spacecraft. Then you have to know exactly how far away\nfrom it you are; this may or may not be possible with the hardware on\nboard. \n\nApart from which, there is absolutely no need for navigation beacons.", "Forwarded from Doug Griffith, Magellan Project Manager\n\n MAGELLAN STATUS REPORT\n April 16, 1993\n\n1. The Magellan mission at Venus continues normally, gathering gravity\ndata which provides measurement of density variations in the upper\nmantle which can be correlated to surface topography. Spacecraft\nperformance is nominal.\n\n2. Magellan has completed 7225 orbits of Venus and is now 39 days from\nthe end of Cycle-4 and the start of the Transition Experiment.\n\n3. No significant activities are expected next week, as preparations\nfor aerobraking continue on schedule.", "People who criticize \"big Government\" and its projects rarely seem to\nhave a consistent view of the role of Government in science and\ntechnology. Basically, the U.S. Government has gotten into the role of\nsupporting research which private industry finds too expensive or too\nlong-term. \n\n(Historically, this role for the U.S. Gov't was forced upon it because\nof socialism in other countries. In order for U.S. industries to\ncompete with government-subsidized foreign competitors, the U.S. Gov't\nhas taken on the role of subisizing big-ticket or long-lead R&D.)\n\nAs a Republican, I abhor the necessity for our Government to involve\nitself in technology this way. I believe that market forces should\ndrive technology, and the world would be a better place for it. But\nthe whole world would have to implement this concept simultaneously, or\nsome countries would have subsidized R&D, while others would not. So\nthe U.S. must subsidize because everybody else does. (This sounds a\nlot like the farm subsidies arguments behind our GATT negotiations,\ndoesn't it?)\n\nBut this role of Government subsidies is antithetical to\ncost-effectiveness. The general idea is to spend money on new\ntechnology, and thereby maintain and promote our technological culture,\ndespite the forces in the business world (like the dreaded quarterly\nearnings report) which erode the ability of U.S. industry to invest in\nnew technology. And since our goal is to spend money, it makes little\nsense to try to save money.\n\nOf course, we could always spend our money more wisely, but EVERYBODY\ndisagrees about that the wisdom should be. \n\nIt's interesting to note that some of our best tools for cost control\navailable in industry today were derived from Government projects.\nGANTT charts, CP/M, and most of the modern scheduling software comes\nfrom DoD projects and their contractors. The construction industry\nhas taken these tools to the core of their businesses; every large\nconstruction project now uses these tools. \n\n-- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office\n kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (713) 483-4368", "\n\n\n\nIn fact, you can all direct your ire at the proper target by ingoring NASA \naltogether. The rocket is a commercial launch vechicle - a Conestoga flying \na COMET payload. NASA is simply the primary customer. I believe SDIO has a\nsmall payload as well. The advertising space was sold by the owners of the\nrocket, who can do whatever they darn well please with it. In addition, these\nanonymous \"observers\" had no reason to be startled. The deal made Space News\nat least twice. \n\n\n\n\nI think its only fair to find that out before everyone starts having a hissy\nfit. The fact that they bothered to use the conditional tense suggests that\nit has not yet been approved.\n\n", "[deletions]\n\n People with advanced science degrees use state of the art equipment\nand spend millions of dollars to simulate tornadoes. But tornadoes\ndo not require intelligence to exist.\n Not only that, the equipment needed is not really 'state of the art.'\nTo study the *products*, yes, but not to generate them.\n\n \n Oh, I will. :->\n\nSincerely,", "Archive-name: space/new_probes\nLast-modified: $Date: 93/04/01 14:39:17 $\n\nUPCOMING PLANETARY PROBES - MISSIONS AND SCHEDULES\n\n Information on upcoming or currently active missions not mentioned below\n would be welcome. Sources: NASA fact sheets, Cassini Mission Design\n team, ISAS/NASDA launch schedules, press kits.\n\n\n ASUKA (ASTRO-D) - ISAS (Japan) X-ray astronomy satellite, launched into\n Earth orbit on 2/20/93. Equipped with large-area wide-wavelength (1-20\n Angstrom) X-ray telescope, X-ray CCD cameras, and imaging gas\n scintillation proportional counters.\n\n\n CASSINI - Saturn orbiter and Titan atmosphere probe. Cassini is a joint\n NASA/ESA project designed to accomplish an exploration of the Saturnian\n system with its Cassini Saturn Orbiter and Huygens Titan Probe. Cassini\n is scheduled for launch aboard a Titan IV/Centaur in October of 1997.\n After gravity assists of Venus, Earth and Jupiter in a VVEJGA\n trajectory, the spacecraft will arrive at Saturn in June of 2004. Upon\n arrival, the Cassini spacecraft performs several maneuvers to achieve an\n orbit around Saturn. Near the end of this initial orbit, the Huygens\n Probe separates from the Orbiter and descends through the atmosphere of\n Titan. The Orbiter relays the Probe data to Earth for about 3 hours\n while the Probe enters and traverses the cloudy atmosphere to the\n surface. After the completion of the Probe mission, the Orbiter\n continues touring the Saturnian system for three and a half years. Titan\n synchronous orbit trajectories will allow about 35 flybys of Titan and\n targeted flybys of Iapetus, Dione and Enceladus. The objectives of the\n mission are threefold: conduct detailed studies of Saturn's atmosphere,\n rings and magnetosphere; conduct close-up studies of Saturn's\n satellites, and characterize Titan's atmosphere and surface.\n\n One of the most intriguing aspects of Titan is the possibility that its\n surface may be covered in part with lakes of liquid hydrocarbons that\n result from photochemical processes in its upper atmosphere. These\n hydrocarbons condense to form a global smog layer and eventually rain\n down onto the surface. The Cassini orbiter will use onboard radar to\n peer through Titan's clouds and determine if there is liquid on the\n surface. Experiments aboard both the orbiter and the entry probe will\n investigate the chemical processes that produce this unique atmosphere.\n\n The Cassini mission is named for Jean Dominique Cassini (1625-1712), the\n first director of the Paris Observatory, who discovered several of\n Saturn's satellites and the major division in its rings. The Titan\n atmospheric entry probe is named for the Dutch physicist Christiaan\n Huygens (1629-1695), who discovered Titan and first described the true\n nature of Saturn's rings.\n\n\t Key Scheduled Dates for the Cassini Mission (VVEJGA Trajectory)\n\t -------------------------------------------------------------\n\t 10/06/97 - Titan IV/Centaur Launch\n\t 04/21/98 - Venus 1 Gravity Assist\n\t 06/20/99 - Venus 2 Gravity Assist\n\t 08/16/99 - Earth Gravity Assist\n\t 12/30/00 - Jupiter Gravity Assist\n\t 06/25/04 - Saturn Arrival\n\t 01/09/05 - Titan Probe Release\n\t 01/30/05 - Titan Probe Entry\n\t 06/25/08 - End of Primary Mission\n\t (Schedule last updated 7/22/92)\n\n\n GALILEO - Jupiter orbiter and atmosphere probe, in transit. Has returned\n the first resolved images of an asteroid, Gaspra, while in transit to\n Jupiter. Efforts to unfurl the stuck High-Gain Antenna (HGA) have\n essentially been abandoned. JPL has developed a backup plan using data\n compression (JPEG-like for images, lossless compression for data from\n the other instruments) which should allow the mission to achieve\n approximately 70% of its original objectives.\n\n\t Galileo Schedule\n\t ----------------\n\t 10/18/89 - Launch from Space Shuttle\n\t 02/09/90 - Venus Flyby\n\t 10/**/90 - Venus Data Playback\n\t 12/08/90 - 1st Earth Flyby\n\t 05/01/91 - High Gain Antenna Unfurled\n\t 07/91 - 06/92 - 1st Asteroid Belt Passage\n\t 10/29/91 - Asteroid Gaspra Flyby\n\t 12/08/92 - 2nd Earth Flyby\n\t 05/93 - 11/93 - 2nd Asteroid Belt Passage\n\t 08/28/93 - Asteroid Ida Flyby\n\t 07/02/95 - Probe Separation\n\t 07/09/95 - Orbiter Deflection Maneuver\n\t 12/95 - 10/97 - Orbital Tour of Jovian Moons\n\t 12/07/95 - Jupiter/Io Encounter\n\t 07/18/96 - Ganymede\n\t 09/28/96 - Ganymede\n\t 12/12/96 - Callisto\n\t 01/23/97 - Europa\n\t 02/28/97 - Ganymede\n\t 04/22/97 - Europa\n\t 05/31/97 - Europa\n\t 10/05/97 - Jupiter Magnetotail Exploration\n\n\n HITEN - Japanese (ISAS) lunar probe launched 1/24/90. Has made\n multiple lunar flybys. Released Hagoromo, a smaller satellite,\n into lunar orbit. This mission made Japan the third nation to\n orbit a satellite around the Moon.\n\n\n MAGELLAN - Venus radar mapping mission. Has mapped almost the entire\n surface at high resolution. Currently (4/93) collecting a global gravity\n map.\n\n\n MARS OBSERVER - Mars orbiter including 1.5 m/pixel resolution camera.\n Launched 9/25/92 on a Titan III/TOS booster. MO is currently (4/93) in\n transit to Mars, arriving on 8/24/93. Operations will start 11/93 for\n one martian year (687 days).\n\n\n TOPEX/Poseidon - Joint US/French Earth observing satellite, launched\n 8/10/92 on an Ariane 4 booster. The primary objective of the\n TOPEX/POSEIDON project is to make precise and accurate global\n observations of the sea level for several years, substantially\n increasing understanding of global ocean dynamics. The satellite also\n will increase understanding of how heat is transported in the ocean.\n\n\n ULYSSES- European Space Agency probe to study the Sun from an orbit over\n its poles. Launched in late 1990, it carries particles-and-fields\n experiments (such as magnetometer, ion and electron collectors for\n various energy ranges, plasma wave radio receivers, etc.) but no camera.\n\n Since no human-built rocket is hefty enough to send Ulysses far out of\n the ecliptic plane, it went to Jupiter instead, and stole energy from\n that planet by sliding over Jupiter's north pole in a gravity-assist\n manuver in February 1992. This bent its path into a solar orbit tilted\n about 85 degrees to the ecliptic. It will pass over the Sun's south pole\n in the summer of 1993. Its aphelion is 5.2 AU, and, surprisingly, its\n perihelion is about 1.5 AU-- that's right, a solar-studies spacecraft\n that's always further from the Sun than the Earth is!\n\n While in Jupiter's neigborhood, Ulysses studied the magnetic and\n radiation environment. For a short summary of these results, see\n *Science*, V. 257, p. 1487-1489 (11 September 1992). For gory technical\n detail, see the many articles in the same issue.\n\n\n OTHER SPACE SCIENCE MISSIONS (note: this is based on a posting by Ron\n Baalke in 11/89, with ISAS/NASDA information contributed by Yoshiro\n Yamada (yamada@yscvax.ysc.go.jp). I'm attempting to track changes based\n on updated shuttle manifests; corrections and updates are welcome.\n\n 1993 Missions\n\to ALEXIS [spring, Pegasus]\n\t ALEXIS (Array of Low-Energy X-ray Imaging Sensors) is to perform\n\t a wide-field sky survey in the \"soft\" (low-energy) X-ray\n\t spectrum. It will scan the entire sky every six months to search\n\t for variations in soft-X-ray emission from sources such as white\n\t dwarfs, cataclysmic variable stars and flare stars. It will also\n\t search nearby space for such exotic objects as isolated neutron\n\t stars and gamma-ray bursters. ALEXIS is a project of Los Alamos\n\t National Laboratory and is primarily a technology development\n\t mission that uses astrophysical sources to demonstrate the\n\t technology. Contact project investigator Jeffrey J Bloch\n\t (jjb@beta.lanl.gov) for more information.\n\n\to Wind [Aug, Delta II rocket]\n\t Satellite to measure solar wind input to magnetosphere.\n\n\to Space Radar Lab [Sep, STS-60 SRL-01]\n\t Gather radar images of Earth's surface.\n\n\to Total Ozone Mapping Spectrometer [Dec, Pegasus rocket]\n\t Study of Stratospheric ozone.\n\n\to SFU (Space Flyer Unit) [ISAS]\n\t Conducting space experiments and observations and this can be\n\t recovered after it conducts the various scientific and\n\t engineering experiments. SFU is to be launched by ISAS and\n\t retrieved by the U.S. Space Shuttle on STS-68 in 1994.\n\n 1994\n\to Polar Auroral Plasma Physics [May, Delta II rocket]\n\t June, measure solar wind and ions and gases surrounding the\n\t Earth.\n\n\to IML-2 (STS) [NASDA, Jul 1994 IML-02]\n\t International Microgravity Laboratory.\n\n\to ADEOS [NASDA]\n\t Advanced Earth Observing Satellite.\n\n\to MUSES-B (Mu Space Engineering Satellite-B) [ISAS]\n\t Conducting research on the precise mechanism of space structure\n\t and in-space astronomical observations of electromagnetic waves.\n\n 1995\n\tLUNAR-A [ISAS]\n\t Elucidating the crust structure and thermal construction of the\n\t moon's interior.\n\n\n Proposed Missions:\n\to Advanced X-ray Astronomy Facility (AXAF)\n\t Possible launch from shuttle in 1995, AXAF is a space\n\t observatory with a high resolution telescope. It would orbit for\n\t 15 years and study the mysteries and fate of the universe.\n\n\to Earth Observing System (EOS)\n\t Possible launch in 1997, 1 of 6 US orbiting space platforms to\n\t provide long-term data (15 years) of Earth systems science\n\t including planetary evolution.\n\n\to Mercury Observer\n\t Possible 1997 launch.\n\n\to Lunar Observer\n\t Possible 1997 launch, would be sent into a long-term lunar\n\t orbit. The Observer, from 60 miles above the moon's poles, would\n\t survey characteristics to provide a global context for the\n\t results from the Apollo program.\n\n\to Space Infrared Telescope Facility\n\t Possible launch by shuttle in 1999, this is the 4th element of\n\t the Great Observatories program. A free-flying observatory with\n\t a lifetime of 5 to 10 years, it would observe new comets and\n\t other primitive bodies in the outer solar system, study cosmic\n\t birth formation of galaxies, stars and planets and distant\n\t infrared-emitting galaxies\n\n\to Mars Rover Sample Return (MRSR)\n\t Robotics rover would return samples of Mars' atmosphere and\n\t surface to Earch for analysis. Possible launch dates: 1996 for\n\t imaging orbiter, 2001 for rover.\n\n\to Fire and Ice\n\t Possible launch in 2001, will use a gravity assist flyby of\n\t Earth in 2003, and use a final gravity assist from Jupiter in\n\t 2005, where the probe will split into its Fire and Ice\n\t components: The Fire probe will journey into the Sun, taking\n\t measurements of our star's upper atmosphere until it is\n\t vaporized by the intense heat. The Ice probe will head out\n\t towards Pluto, reaching the tiny world for study by 2016.\n", "Not to mention how those those liberal presidents, Nixon, Ford,\nReagan, Bush. did nothing to support true commercial space\nactivities.", "------- Blind-Carbon-Copy\n\nTo: spacenews@austen.rand.org, cti@austen.rand.org\nSubject: White House outlines options for station, Russian cooperation\nDate: Tue, 06 Apr 93 16:00:21 PDT\nFrom: Richard Buenneke \n\n4/06/93: GIBBONS OUTLINES SPACE STATION REDESIGN GUIDANCE\n\nNASA Headquarters, Washington, D.C.\nApril 6, 1993\n\nRELEASE: 93-64\n\n Dr. John H. Gibbons, Director, Office of Science and Technology\nPolicy, outlined to the members-designate of the Advisory Committee on the\nRedesign of the Space Station on April 3, three budget options as guidance\nto the committee in their deliberations on the redesign of the space\nstation.\n\n A low option of $5 billion, a mid-range option of $7 billion and a\nhigh option of $9 billion will be considered by the committee. Each\noption would cover the total expenditures for space station from fiscal\nyear 1994 through 1998 and would include funds for development,\noperations, utilization, Shuttle integration, facilities, research\noperations support, transition cost and also must include adequate program\nreserves to insure program implementation within the available funds.\n\n Over the next 5 years, $4 billion is reserved within the NASA\nbudget for the President's new technology investment. As a result,\nstation options above $7 billion must be accompanied by offsetting\nreductions in the rest of the NASA budget. For example, a space station\noption of $9 billion would require $2 billion in offsets from the NASA\nbudget over the next 5 years.\n\n Gibbons presented the information at an organizational session of\nthe advisory committee. Generally, the members-designate focused upon\nadministrative topics and used the session to get acquainted. They also\nreceived a legal and ethics briefing and an orientation on the process the\nStation Redesign Team is following to develop options for the advisory\ncommittee to consider.\n\n Gibbons also announced that the United States and its\ninternational partners -- the Europeans, Japanese and Canadians -- have\ndecided, after consultation, to give \"full consideration\" to use of\nRussian assets in the course of the space station redesign process.\n\n To that end, the Russians will be asked to participate in the\nredesign effort on an as-needed consulting basis, so that the redesign\nteam can make use of their expertise in assessing the capabilities of MIR\nand the possible use of MIR and other Russian capabilities and systems.\nThe U.S. and international partners hope to benefit from the expertise of\nthe Russian participants in assessing Russian systems and technology. The\noverall goal of the redesign effort is to develop options for reducing\nstation costs while preserving key research and exploration capabilitiaes.\nCareful integration of Russian assets could be a key factor in achieving\nthat goal.\n\n Gibbons reiterated that, \"President Clinton is committed to the\nredesigned space station and to making every effort to preserve the\nscience, the technology and the jobs that the space station program\nrepresents. However, he also is committed to a space station that is well\nmanaged and one that does not consume the national resources which should\nbe used to invest in the future of this industry and this nation.\"\n\n NASA Administrator Daniel S. Goldin said the Russian\nparticipation will be accomplished through the East-West Space Science\nCenter at the University of Maryland under the leadership of Roald\nSagdeev.", "\nSorry, not so -- the changes in sunrise and sunset times are not\nquite synchronized. For example, neither the earliest sunrise nor the\nlatest sunset comes on the longest day of the year.", "\n >If this idea goes through, it's the thin end of the wedge. Soon\n >companies will be doing larger, and more permanant, billboards in the\n >sky. I wouldn't want a world a few decades from now when the sky\n >looks like Las Vegas. That would _really_ make me sad.\n\n Think for a moment about the technology required to do that. By \n the time they could make the Earth's sky look like Las Vegas, \n the people could afford to go backpacking on the Moon. Round\n trip costs for 500 kg to the Moon would be about the same as\n 5000 kg in a Low Earth \"advertising\" orbit: Very roughly the\n same cost as a smallish billboard, therefore. If such ads were\n to become common place, that would have to be a very low price...\n\nThis is nonsense. Its like saying that by the time commercials\non television become commonplace every citizen will have their own\nhour long nationally broadcast TV program.\n\n There's always been a problem of having to get \n away from civilization before you can really find \"natural\"\n scenery. 100 years ago, this usually didn't take a trip\n of over 5 miles. Today, most people would have to go 100 miles\n or more. If we ever get to the point where we have billboards\n on orbit, that essentially means that no place on Earth is still\n \"wild.\" While that may or may not be a good thing, the orbital\n billboards aren't the problem: They are just a symptom of \n growing, densely-populated civilization. Banning such ads will\n not save your view of the night sky, because by the time \n such ads could become widespread you will probably have trouble\n finding a place without street lights, where you can _see_\n the stars...\n\nThe rest of your post is strange mishmash of \"its already really bad\"\nand \"it doesn't really matter if it gets worse.\" You should try to\nfigure out what you are really arguing for. (Kneejerk anti-environ-\nmentalism?)\n\n-david", "\nAny lunar satellite needs fuel to do regular orbit corrections, and when\nits fuel runs out it will crash within months. The orbits of the Apollo\nmotherships changed noticeably during lunar missions lasting only a few\ndays. It is *possible* that there are stable orbits here and there --\nthe Moon's gravitational field is poorly mapped -- but we know of none.\n\nPerturbations from Sun and Earth are relatively minor issues at low\naltitudes. The big problem is that the Moon's own gravitational field\nis quite lumpy due to the irregular distribution of mass within the Moon.", "[Space ad proposed]\n\nThis is undoubtedly the sickest thing to come down the marketing pipe\nin years, and the best reason for resurrecting the \"Star Wars\" killer\nsatellite system.", " (excerpts from posting on this topic) \n\n\n(I've seen satellites at midnight - they're not only in twilight.) :o) \n\n\nNow my comments: \n\nI'd like to add that some of the \"protests\" do not come from a strictly \npractical consideration of what pollution levels are acceptable for \nresearch activities by professional astronomers. Some of what I \nwould complain about is rooted in aesthetics. Many readers may \nnever have known a time where the heavens were pristine - sacred - \nunsullied by the actions of humans. The space between the stars \nas profoundly black as an abyss can be. With full horizons and \na pure sky one could look out upon half of all creation at a time \n- none of which had any connection with the petty matters of man. \nAny lights were supplied solely by nature; uncorruptable by men. \nWhole religions were based on mortal man somehow getting up there \nand becoming immortal as the stars, whether by apotheosis or a belief \nin an afterlife. \n\nThe Space Age changed all that. The effect of the first Sputniks \nand Echo, etc. on this view could only happen once. To see a light \ncrossing the night sky and know it was put there by us puny people \nis still impressive and the sense of size one gets by assimilating \nthe scales involved is also awesome - even if the few hundreds or \nthousands of miles involved is still dwarfed by the rest of the universe. \nBut there is still a hunger for the pure beauty of a virgin sky. \n\nYes, I know aircraft are almost always in sight. I have to live \nin a very populated area (6 miles from an international airport \ncurrently) where light pollution on the ground is ghastly. The \nimpact of humans is so extreme here - virtually no place exists \nthat has not been shaped, sculpted, modified, trashed or whipped \ninto shape by the hands of man. In some places the only life \nforms larger than bacteria are humans, cockroaches, and squirrels \n(or rats). I visited some friends up in the Appalacian mountains \none weekend, \"getting away from it all\" (paved roads, indoor plumbing, \nmalls, ...) and it felt good for a while - then I quickly noticed \nthe hollow was directly under the main flight path into Dulles - 60-80 \nmiles to the east. (Their 'security light' didn't help matters \nmuch either.) But I've heard the artic wilderness gets lots of \nhigh air traffic. So I know the skies are rarely perfect. \n\nBut there is still this desire to see a place that man hasn't \nfouled in some way. (I mean they've been TRYING this forever - \nlike, concerning Tesla's idea to banish night, - wow!) I don't watch \ncommercial television, but I can imagine just how disgusting beer, \ntruck, or hemmorrhoid ointment advertisements would be if seen up so high. \nIf ya' gotta make a buck on it (displaying products in heaven), at \nleast consider the reactions from those for whom the sky is a last\nbeautiful refuge from the baseness of modern life. \n\nTo be open about this though, I have here my listing of the passage \nof HST in the evening sky for this weekend - tonight Friday at \n8:25 p.m. EDT it will reach an altitude of 20.1 degrees on the \nlocal meridian from Baltimore vicinity. I'll be trying to see it \nif I can - it _is_ my mealticket after all. So I suppose I could \nbe called an elitist for supporting this intrusion on the night sky \nwhile complaining about billboards proposed by others. Be that \nas it may, I think my point about a desire for beauty is valid, \neven if it can't ever be perfectly achieved. ", "\n\nNo. Zeno's paradox is resolved by showing that integration or an infinite\nseries of decreasing terms can sum to a finite result.\n\n\nWell, suppose a probe emitting radiation at a constant frequency was\nsent towards a black hole. As it got closer to the event horizon, the\nred shift would keep increasing. The period would get longer and longer,\nbut it would never stop. An observer would not observe the probe actually\nreaching the event horizon. The detected energy from the probe would keep\ndecreasing, but it wouldn't vanish. Exp(-t) never quite reaches zero.\n\nI guess the above probably doesn't make things any more clear, but hopefully\nyou will get the general idea maybe.", " Well, lets see....I took a class on this last fall, and I have no\nnotes so I'll try to wing it... \n Here's how I understand it. Remember from stellar evolution that \nblack holes and neutron stars(pulsars) are formed from high mass stars,\nM(star)=1.4M(sun). High mass stars live fast and burn hard, taking\nappoximately 10^5-10^7 years before going nova, or supernova. In this time,\nthey don't live long enough to get perturbed out of the galactic plane, so any\nof these (if assumed to be the sources of GRB's) will be in the plane of the\ngalaxy. \n Then we take the catalog of bursts that have been recieved from the\nvarious satellites around the solar system, (Pioneer Venus has one, either\nPion. 10 or 11, GINGA, and of course BATSE) and we do distribution tests on our\ncatalog. These tests all show, that the bursts have an isotropic\ndistribution(evenly spread out in a radial direction), and they show signs of\nhomogeneity, i.e. they do not clump in any one direction. So, unless we are\nsampling the area inside the disk of the galaxy, we are sampling the UNIVERSE.\nNot cool, if you want to figure out what the hell caused these things. Now, I\nsuppose you are saying, \"Well, we stil only may be sampling from inside the\ndisk.\" Well, not necessarily. Remember, we have what is more or less an\ninterplanetary network of burst detectors with a baseline that goes waaaay out\nto beyond Pluto(pioneer 11), so we should be able, with all of our detectors de\ntect some sort of difference in angle from satellite to satellite. Here's an \nanalogy: You see a plane overhead. You measure the angle of the plane from\nthe origin of your arbitrary coordinate system. One of your friends a mile\naway sees the same plane, and measures the angle from the zero point of his\narbitrary system, which is the same as yours. The two angles are different,\nand you should be able to triangulate the position of your burst, and maybe\nfind a source. To my knowledge, no one has been able to do this. \n I should throw in why halo, and corona models don't work, also. As I\nsaid before, looking at the possible astrophysics of the bursts, (short\ntimescales, high energy) black holes, and pulsars exhibit much of this type of\nbehavior. If this is the case, as I said before, these stars seem to be bound\nto the disk of the galaxy, especially the most energetic of the these sources.\nWhen you look at a simulated model, where the bursts are confined to the disk,\nbut you sample out to large distances, say 750 mpc, you should definitely see\nnot only an anisotropy towards you in all direction, but a clumping of sources \nin the direction of the galactic center. As I said before, there is none of\nthese characteristics. ", "Besides this was the same line of horse puckey the mining companies claimed\nwhen they were told to pay for restoring land after strip mining.\n\nthey still mine coal in the midwest, but now it doesn't look like\nthe moon when theyare done.", "FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact: OASIS (310) 364-2290\n\n 15 April 1993 Los Angeles, CA\n\n LOCAL NATIONAL SPACE SOCIETY CHAPTERS SPONSOR TALK BY L.A.\n ADVOCATE OF LUNAR POWER SYSTEM AS ENERGY SOURCE FOR THE WORLD\n\n On April 21, the OASIS and Ventura County chapters of the National \nSpace Society will sponsor a talk by Lunar Power System (LPS) co-\ninventor and vice-president of the LPS Coalition, Dr. Robert D.\nWaldron. It will be held at 7:30 p.m. at the Rockwell Science\nCenter in Thousand Oaks, CA.\n\n Dr. Waldron is currently a Technical Specialist in Space\nMaterials Processing with the Space Systems Division of Rockwell\nInternational in Downey, California. He is a recognized world\nauthority on lunar materials refinement. He has written or\ncoauthored more than 15 articles or reports on nonterrestrial\nmaterials processing or utilization. Along with Dr. David\nCriswell, Waldron invented the lunar/solar power system concept.\n\n Momentum is building for a coalition of entrepreneurs, legal\nexperts, and Soviet and U.S. scientists and engineers to build\nthe Lunar Power System, a pollution-free, energy source with a\npotential to power the globe.\n\n For the past three years members of the coalition, nearly half\nfrom California, have rejuvenated the commercial and scientific\nconcept of a solar power system based on the Moon.\n\n The LPS concept entails collecting solar energy on the lunar\nsurface and beaming the power to Earth as microwaves transmitted\nthrough orbiting antennae. A mature LPS offers an enormous\nsource of clean, sustainable power to meet the Earth's ever\nincreasing demand using proven, basic technology.\n\n OASIS (Organization for the Advancement of Space\nIndustrialization) is the Greater Los Angeles chapter of the\nNational Space Society, which is an international non-profit\norganization that promotes development of the space frontier.\nThe Ventura County chapter is based in Oxnard, CA.\n\n WHERE: Rockwell Science Center Auditorium, 1049 Camino\n Dos Rios, Thousand Oaks, CA.", "\n\nThe aperture door will be shut during reboost. Using the shuttle\nmeans that there will be someone nearby to pry the door open again \nif it should stick.\n\n\n", "\nI gues it is Keesler. The others do not ring the bell but they might be \ninvolved as well. Sometime ago Keesler was here at Langley teaching \na course on space debris and, if my memory does not fai,l I think there\nwas even a reference to a book on the subject.\n\nC.O.Egalon@larc.nasa.gov", "Re; Response from CoB of Boeing on SSTO ...\n \n Boeing has been looking at several TSTO vehicles and has carried\nout extensive conceptual studies of advanced launch systems for some\ntime. A good reference on this might be: \"Comparison of Propulsion\nOptions for Advanced Earth-To-Orbit (ETO) Applications (IAF-92-\n0639).\" by V.A. Weldon and L.E. Fink from Boeing. The paper\ndescribes a propane-fueled TSTO launch system claimed to achieve\naircraft-like operational efficiencies without the problems\nassociated with liquid hydrogen fuel. Basically, it's a high-speed\nairplane launching a Hermes-type spaceplane\n The design (the concept is also called \"Beta\") as laid out in the\npaper can launch at least 10,000 pounds into polar orbit, or 20,000\npounds to space station orbit including a crew of eight persons and\nlife support. System design reliability is .9995.\n Beta is a 360-foot-long first stage powered by two large ramjets\nand 12 high- speed civil transport (HSCT) turbofans. A 108-foot-\nlong reusable orbiter is trapeze-mounted in the belly of the first-\nstage aircraft, which also could accommodate a longer and heavy\npayload on an expendable second stage.\n To launch the orbital vehicle, the first stage takes off like a\nnormal HSCT and accelerates to Mach 3. At that point the turbofans,\nmodified to burn catalyzed JP-7, would shut off and the ramjets,\nwould take over. At Mach 5.5 the orbiter or the ELV would swing\nout, ignite and proceed to orbit. Both vehicles would land like\naircraft at the conclusion of their respective missions.\n Estimated total weight of the combined configuration at takeoff\nis about 1.5 M lbs, roughly equivalanet to a fully loaded An-225.\nThe orbiter stages weighs about 400,Klbs including 335 Klbs\nof LOX and subcooled propane to power two 250 Klbs vacuum thrust\nrocket engines. Propellants would be stored at 91 degrees Kelvin,\nwith the propane in a spherical tank mounted forward of the 15-by-\n25-foot cargo bay and the two-seat orbiter crew station. LOX would\nbe stored aft. Weldon and Fink claim the key to this design's\nsuccess is the structurally efficient airframe and the compact\ntankage allowed by the high-density supercooled hydrocarbon fuel.\n The paper compares TSTO design to SSTO design. They conclude\nwhile a SSTO has a slightly lower recurring cost, a TSTO is easier,\ncheaper, and less risky to develop, simpler to build, has greater\nsafety and mission versatility and doesn't carry the hard-to-handle\nand bulky hydrogen fuel. The conlcude \"In conjunction with its major\nuse of airplane type engines and fuel, as well as its inherent self-\nferry capability, it is probably the system most likely to provide\nas close to airline-like operations as possible with a practical\nconfiguration, until a single stage airbreather/rocket concept can\nbe shown to be operationally viable.\"\n \n Weldon and others at Boeing have been working on TSTO designs for\nsome time. I expect this, or a similar concept (perhaps the HTHL\nSSTO they proposed for the SDIO SSTO first phase) is being re-\nexamined as a basis for a bid on the first phase of SpaceLifter.\n Does it threaten DC-???. Possibly -- There is a set of on-going\nstudies trying straighten out the government's future space\ntransportation strategy. MDC and Boeing (as well as other firms)\nare providing data to a joint study team back in DC. There are\nvarious factions and options vying for attention -- including\nshuttle upgrades, shuttle replacement (what was called the \"4-2-3\"\narchitecture), SpaceLifter, ELV upgrades, and various advanced\nvehicles (ALES, Beta, DC-??, NASP, FSTS, SSTOs of several types,\netc.) NASA/DOD/DOT are trying to put together a coherent strategy\nfor future US gov't space transportation systems, and trying to\njuggle near-term launch needs (like for DoD and NASA) against\nmedium-term needs (including commercial considerations), and against\nthe investment and risk of going to \"leap frog\" new technologies\nlike SDIO/SSTO and NASP and Beta.\n It's a heck of a problem. The worst part of the problem isn't\nthat there aren't promising ideas and concepts -- there are dozens\nof them -- but how they balance cost and risk versus real needs in\nthe near term. They should have a draft report in mid-June, with a\nfinal report coming by the end of the fiscal year.\n ------------------------------------------------------------------\n Wales Larrison Space Technology Investor\n ", "\n.. and Chuck Yeager earlier flights with the X-1...\n", "Ron Miller is a space artist with a long and distinguished career. \nI've admired both his paintings (remember the USPS Solar System\nExploration Stamps last year?) and his writings on the history of\nspaceflight. For several years he's been working on a *big* project\nwhich is almost ready to hit the streets. A brochure from his\npublisher has landed in my mailbox, and I thought it was cool enough\nto type in part of it (it's rather long). Especially given the Net's\nstrong interest in vaporware spacecraft...\n\n ==================================\n\n The Dream Machines:\nAn Illustrated History of the Spaceship in Art, Science, and Literature\n\n By Ron Miller\n with Foreword by Arthur C. Clarke\n\nKrieger Publishing Company\nMelbourne, Florida, USA\nOrig. Ed. 1993\nPre-publication $84.50\nISBN 0-89464-039-9\n\n\nThis text is a history of the spaceship as both a cultural and a\ntechnological phenomenon. The idea of a vehicle for traversing the\nspace betwen worlds did not spring full-blown into existence in the\ntlatter half of theis century. The need preceded the ability ot make\nsuch a device by several hundred years. As soon as it was realized\nthat there were other worlds than this one, human beings wanted to\nreach them. \n\nTracing the history of the many imaginative, and often prescient,\nattempts to solve this problem also reflects the history of\ntechnology, science, astronomy, and engineering. Once space travel\nbecame feasible, there were many more spacecraft concepts developed\nthan ever got off the drawing board-- or off the ground, for that\nmatter. These also are described in theis book, for the same reason\nas the pre-space-age and pre-flight ideas are: they are all accurate\nreflections of their particular era's dreams, abilities, and\nknowledge. Virtually every spaceship concept invented since 1500, as\nwell as selected events important in developing the idea of\nextraterrestrial travel, is listed chronologically. The chronological\nentries allow comparisons between actual astronautical events and\nspeculative ventures. They also allow comparisons between\nsimultaneous events taking place in different countries. They reveal\nconnections, influences, and evolutions hitherto unsuspected. Every\nentry is accompanied by at least one illustration. Nearly every\nspacecraft concept is illustrated with a schematic drawing. This\nallows accurate comparisons to be made between designss, to visualize\ndifferences, similarities, and influences.\n\nThis text will be of interest to students of astronautical history,\nand also to model builders who would be interested in the schematic\ndiagrams. Science fiction fans as well as aviation history buffs and\nhistorians of science will also find this book to be fascinating. The\nunique collection of illustrations makes it a visually attractive and\nvery interesting history of the spaceship.\n\nSPECIAL FEATURES\n\nIncludes scale drawings of several hundred spacecraft, both real and\nfictional\n\nContains scores of illustrations: artwork, drawings, and photos\ncontemporary with the subject. This includes extremely rare\nillustrations from scarce books and novels, exclusive photos and\ndrawings fromSoviet spacecraft; rare stills from both famous and\nobscure science fiction films, and unpublished photographs from NASA\narchives\n\nAn index, bibliography, and appendices are included.\n\nCONTENTS\n\nPart I The Archaeology of the Spaceship (360 B.C. to 1783 A.D.)\nPart II The invention of the Spaceship (1784-1899)\nPart III The Experimenters (1900-1938)\nPart IV The World War (1939-1945)\nPart V The Golden Age of the Spaceship (1946-1960)\nPart VI The Dawn of the Space Age (1961 to the present)\n\nABOUT RON MILLER\n\n[The brochure has a page of stuff here; I'll try to hit the high\nspots.]\n\nFormer art director for Albert Einstein Planetarium at Smithsonian's\nNational Air and Space Museum\n\nMember of International Association for Astronomical Arts, member of\nInternational Astronautical Association, Fellow of the British\nInterplanetary Society, consulting editor for *Air & Space\nSmithsonian* magazine\n\nAuthor, co-author, editor, or sole illustrator on many books since\n1979, including *Space Art*, *Cycles of Fire*, *The Grand Tour*, and\nmany others, as well as many articles and papers\n\nBook jackets and interior art for over a dozen publishers \n\nContributor to IBM traveling exhibition and book *Blueprint for Space*\n\nProduction illustrator for movies *Dune* and *Total Recall*\n\nDesigner of ten-stamp set of commemorative space postage stamps for\nU.S. Postal Service in 1991 (Solar System Exploration)\n\nORDERING INFORMATION\n\nPre-publication price $84.50 before 1 May 1993\nAfterwards, price will be $112.50\n\nKrieger Publishing Company\nPO Box 9542\nMelbourne, FL 32902-9542\nUSA\nDirect order line (407)727-7270\nFax (407)951-3671\n\nAdd $5.00 for shipping by UPS within USA for first book, $1.50 for each\nadditional book. \n\nFor foreign orders, add $6.00 for first book, $2.00 for each\nadditional. Additional charges for airmail shipments.", "I can tell you that when AMSAT launched some birds along a Spot satellite\n(French), that during installation of some instruments on Spot 2, there\nheavily armed legionaires who had a `take no prisoners' look on there faces.\nSpot satellites are completely capable of doing some very good on orbit\nsurveillance.\n\nBMc\n--", "Oddly, enough, The smithsonian calls the lindbergh years\nthe golden age of flight. I would call it the granite years,\nreflecting the primitive nature of it. It was romantic,\nswashbuckling daredevils, \"those daring young men in their flying\nmachines\". But in reality, it sucked. Death was a highly likely\noccurence, and the environment blew. Ever see the early navy\npressure suits, they were modified diving suits. You were ready to\nstar in \"plan 9 from outer space\". Radios and Nav AIds were\na joke, and engines ran on castor oil. They picked and called aviators\n\"men with iron stomachs\", and it wasn't due to vertigo.\n\nOddly enough, now we are in the golden age of flight. I can hop the\nshuttle to NY for $90 bucks, now that's golden.\n\nMercury gemini, and apollo were romantic, but let's be honest.\nPeeing in bags, having plastic bags glued to your butt everytime\nyou needed a bowel movement. Living for days inside a VW Bug.\nRomantic, but not commercial. The DC-X points out a most likely\nnew golden age. An age where fat cigar smoking business men in\nloud polyester space suits will fill the skys with strip malls\nand used space ship lots.\n\nhhhmmmmm, maybe i'll retract that golden age bit. Maybe it was\nbetter in the old days. Of course, then we'll have wally schirra\ntelling his great grand children, \"In my day, we walked on the moon.\nEvery day. Miles. no buses. you kids got it soft\".", "I have before me a pertinent report from the United States General\nAccounting Office:\n\nNational Aero-Space Plane: Restructuring Future Research and Development\nEfforts\nDecember 1992\nReport number GAO/NSIAD-93-71\n\nIn the back it lists the following related reports:\n\nNASP: Key Issues Facing the Program (31 Mar 92) GAO/T-NSIAD-92-26\n\nAerospace Plane Technology: R&D Efforts in Japan and Australia\n(4 Oct 91) GAO/NSIAD-92-5\n\nAerospace Plane Technology: R&D Efforts in Europe (25 July 91)\nGAO/NSIAD-91-194\n\nAerospace Technology: Technical Data and Information on Foreign\nTest Facilities (22 Jun 90) GAO/NSIAD-90-71FS\n\nInvestment in Foreign Aerospace Vehicle Research and Technological\nDevelopment Efforts (2 Aug 89) GAO/T-NSIAD-89-43\n\nNASP: A Technology Development and Demonstration Program to Build\nthe X-30 (27 Apr 88) GAO/NSIAD-88-122\n\n\nOn the inside back cover, under \"Ordering Information\" it says\n\n\"The first copy of each GAO report is free. . . . Orders\nmay also be placed by calling (202)275-6241\n\"\n\nDani\n", "\n\n\nIn spite of my great respect for the people you speak of, I think their\ncost estimates are a bit over-optimistic. If nothing else, a working SSTO\nis at least as complex as a large airliner and has a smaller experience\nbase. It therefore seems that SSTO development should cost at least as\nmuch as a typical airliner development. That puts it in the $3G to $5G\nrange.\n\n\nTrue it and the contest would result in a much larger market. But I\ndon't think it would be enough to attract the investors given the\nrisks involved.\n\nIf you could gurantee the SSTO costs and gurantee that it captures\n100% of the available launch market, then I think you could\ndo it.\n\n Allen\n", "I've been to three talks in the last month which might be of interest. I've \ntranscribed some of my notes below. Since my note taking ability is by no means\ninfallible, please assume that all factual errors are mine. Permission is \ngranted to copy this without restriction.\n\nMichael Sternberg, Cheif of Operations of RIMSAT, was invited to speak at an\ninformal lunch held by ACDIS here on the campus of the University of Illinois.\nACDIS is an organization on campus that deals with Arms Control, Disarmament and\nInternational Security. RIMSAT was considered an appropriate topic because the\ncompany is using Russian launchers and satellites. I think it also helped that\nhis daughter is a grad student in the International Relations program.\n\nThe concept behind RIMSAT apparently began when Matt Neilson (?) went to Tonga\nto visit a friend. While he was there, he somehow ended up visiting the king,\nwho happened to be a big TV fan. Matt bought the King a satellite dish, which \nthe king thought was really nifty. Since Tonga has a GNP of about $70 million,\nHis Majesty asked if there was any way to make money off this. Matt thought\nthere probably was, so at his suggestion, Tonga applied for 31 geosynchronous\nsatellite slots. While this isn't entirely off the wall, it was very unusual,\nseeing as Tonga was a tiny kingdom with no space program, and 31 is a lot of\nslots.\n\nThe whole thing was debated in the appropriate regulatory agency and Carl\nHilliard (who is apparently a respected space lawyer) wrote several opinions\nsupporting Tonga's case. Eventually Tonga ended up with 7 slots, ranging from \n70 E to 170 E (slots are designated by the longitude over which they reside).\nAccording to Sternberg, four of these, from 130 E to 142 E are the best in the\nworld because they are excellently placed for communications between Hawaii and \nthe Pacific Rim. \n\nRIMSAT was formed to use these slots. It was officially formed in Nevis as a tax\nhaven. They tried for a few years to raise funds in the west, however, to\nfill 7 slots with western satellites launched on western launchers would have\ncost approximately $2 billion. It's not easy to raise that kind of money.\nEventually, they hit upon the idea of using Russian hardware. They began \nnegotiating with Glavkosmos for hardware. Mr Sternberg describes operating in \nMoscow in such harsh terms that I don't think I'll visit there for a long time.\nBesides a significant lack of creature comforts, he was not happy with the way\nthat people operate. For example \"everybody can sell you everything.\" \nEveryone can show the proper documents and licenses that indicate they are the\nonly ones who have the authority to sell what ever you want to by.\n\nEventually, RIMSAT arranged a deal with Glavkosmos for 6 satellites at a cost\nof $150 million. However, Glavkosmos lost favor after the coup. Sternberg\nsays that this is because they were basically a bunch of KGB operatives who \nwent to trade shows and picked up lots of brochures. Since Glavkosmos was\nout of power, he had to renegotiate the deal with the new authorities. He\nagain described life in a Moscow hotel in rather unfavorable terms. Eventually,\nhe worked out a deal and on Dec 4, 1992 he met with Koptev, who heads the \nRussian space program, to sign the deal. Koptev insisted on a few concessions\nbefore signing and according to Sternberg he arranged these new rules to \nallow himself to form another company to do the exact same thing as RIMSAT.\n\nThe next step was to meet with the builders of the hardware, NPO Applied \nMechanics -- NPO PM to use their acronym. This organization is located in \nSiberia (can't figure out how to spell the town, I need an atlas) and has built\nabout 1500 vehicles since the dawn of the space age. Sternberg commented that\nsiberians are very different from Musovites. They are hard workers, honest\npeople who team up to get things done, very much like midwesterners. At this\npoint there were some comments from the audience that agreed with his opinion on\nboth siberians and midwesterners :-)\n\nSternberg had lots of good things to say about NPO PM. His company is \napparently lookng for $100 million to invest in the firm to become 50% partners.It apparently costs the Russians about $4 million to build a satellite that\nwould sell for $50 million in the west. If you want to give them \nspecifications, they'll build you a satellite. For the particular satellites\nthat RIMSAT will be using, costs run about $378,000 per transponder year. This\ncompares to $810,000 t/y in the U.S. They can sell their time for about $1.1\nmillion compared to $2.6 million in the U.S. RIMSAT will launch their \nsatellites on Protons. To get the best prices, they bought in bulk. They \nhave the rights to twelve launches, so if any of you need a lift I can give\nyou their address. The first launch is scheduled for October and they are\ngetting one used satellite from the Russians, which is being moved into place\nnow.\n\nTidbits:\n\n* Sternberg says this kind of thing has to be done by entrepreneurs, not big\nbusiness because big business is just like what they have over there, except\nthat \"we have better paper, both in the bathroom and in the copier.\"\n\n* Russian launches are self insured. The promise to replace a failed launch\nwithin 9 months.\n\n* Major investors in RIMSAT include Russell 20/20, which is a huge retirement\nfund organization, Cellsat, which is a big telecom business in southeast Asia,\nand a fund operated by some of the big names in U.S aerospace which he says is\nsort of an insurance policy for them if this really takes off.\n\n* He downplayed the instabilites in the ex-USSR saying that we are worried\npartly because we aren't used to seeing Russia as anything but an unvarying\nmonolith. Italy gets a new government \"every two weeks\" but we don't worry \nbecause we're used to it. He predicted that once we get used to seeing what\nreally goes on in Russia we won't worry about their stability as much.\n\n* Part of the problem with cooperative ventures is the problem of transfering\nmoney. The central bank has a policy of taking hard currency payments, putting\n25% in their coffers and replacing the rest with the \"equivalent\" value in \nrubles. To get around this, RIMSAT pays their hard currency into an Austrian\nbank account. NPO PM then pays their contractors with foreign currency so that\nthe only the contractors get swindled by the government.\n\n* One of the big problems RIMSAT has had is stonewalling by the western \nsatellite industry. However, Intelsat recently bought three of the same type\nof satellites, which was rather reassuring.\n\n* The biggest worry most people have about russian satellites is the primitive\ntechnology and shorter lifetime. The older Gorizont (Horizon) satellites have\na lifetime of about 5 years, while the more modern Express satellites compare\nwell with western technology and last about 8 years. While this is much \nshorter than 15 years for western satellites, Sternberg downplayed the \ndifference. At these prices they can afford to launch new ones. In addition,\nshorter lifetimes mean that they can replace their equipment with newer\ntechnology so they will be able to compete better than older, out of date\nhardware.\n", "...\n\nFunny. A bit disturbing. Forging a posting seems somewhat unethical, even\nif the subject is as notorious as McElwaine.\n\nFollowups should definitely not go to sci.space.\n", "From: Gene Wright \n\n\n\nI'll say! Imagine that there were a couple groups up there, maybe landing\na few weeks apart. The year-mark starts coming on for the first group.\nIsn't a billion pretty good incentive to take a shot at a potential\nwinner? \"Yeah, that's a shame that Team A's life support gave out\nso close to the deadline. Thanks for the billion.\"\n\nOn the other hand, if Apollo cost ~25billion, for a few days or weeks\nin space, in 1970 dollars, then won't the reward have to be a lot more\nthan only 1 billion to get any takers?\n\n-Tommy Mac\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTom McWilliams 517-355-2178 wk \\\\ As the radius of vision increases,\n18084tm@ibm.cl.msu.edu 336-9591 hm \\\\ the circumference of mystery grows.", "\nCalled \"gas\".\n\n\nThe balloons were in sufficiently low orbit that they experienced\nsome air resistance. When they were finally punctured, this \npreasure (and the internal preasure that was needed to maintain\na spherical shape against this resistance) caused them to\ncatastrophically deflated. The large silvered shards\nthat remained were easily visible for some time before\nreentry, though no longer useful as a passive transponder.", "In Space Digest V16 #487,\n\n...about the protests over proposals to put a giant billboard into orbit,\n\n\n\nMr. Hathaway's post is right on the money, if a little lengthy. In short,\nan orbiting billboard would be trash, in the same way that a billboard on\nthe Earth is trash. Billboards make a place look trashy. That is why there\nare laws in many places prohibiting their use. The light pollution\ncomplaints are mainly an attempt to find some tangible reason to be against\norbiting billboards because people don't feel morally justified to complain\non the grounds that these things would defile the beauty of the sky.\n\nRegular orbiting spacecraft are not the same in this respect, since they are\nmore like abstract entities, but a billboard in space would be like a beer\ncan somebody had thrown on the side of the road: just trash.", "\nSure. Contact the World Space Foundation. They're listed in the sci.space\nFrequently Asked Questions file, which I'll excerpt.\n\n WORLD SPACE FOUNDATION - has been designing and building a solar-sail\n spacecraft for longer than any similar group; many JPL employees lend\n their talents to this project. WSF also provides partial funding for the\n Palomar Sky Survey, an extremely successful search for near-Earth\n asteroids. Publishes *Foundation News* and *Foundation Astronautics\n Notebook*, each a quarterly 4-8 page newsletter. Contributing Associate,\n minimum of $15/year (but more money always welcome to support projects).\n\n\tWorld Space Foundation\n\tPost Office Box Y\n\tSouth Pasadena, California 91301\n\nWSF put together a little paperback anthology of fiction and\nnonfiction about solar sails: *Project Solar Sail*. I think Robert\nStaehle, David Brin, or Arthur Clarke may be listed as editor.\n\nAlso there is a nontechnical book on solar sailing by Louis Friedman,\na technical one by a guy whose name escapes me (help me out, Josh),\nand I would expect that Greg Matloff and Eugene Mallove have something\nto say about the subject in *The Starflight Handbook*, as well as\nquite a few references.\n\n\nCheck the following articles in *Journal of the British Interplanetary\nSociety*:\n\nV36 p. 201-209 (1983)\nV36 p. 483-489 (1983)\nV37 p. 135-141 (1984)\nV37 p. 491-494 (1984)\nV38 p. 113-119 (1984)\nV38 p. 133-136 (1984)\n\n(Can you guess that Matloff visited Fermilab and gave me a bunch of\nreprints? I just found the file.)\n\nAnd K. Eric Drexler's paper \"High Performance Solar Sails and Related\nReflecting Devices,\" AIAA paper 79-1418, probably in a book called\n*Space Manufacturing*, maybe the proceedings of the Second (?)\nConference on Space Manufacturing. The 1979 one, at any rate.", "In the New York Times on Sunday May 9th in the week in review\nsection there was a report of a group called \"Space Marketing\"\nin Atlanta, Georgia who is planning to put up a one mile wide\nreflective Earth orbiting satelite which will appear as large\nand as bright as the Moon and carry some sort of advertising.\nThere was an editorial about this in the Times the following\nTuesday.\n\nAre others as upset about this as I am? I feel that a global\nboycott of anyone involved with such a project would be a good\nidea. Perhaps it could be made illegal in various countries\naround the world? Do others agree?\n\n-david\n\n[Relevant messages found on the net:]\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\nFrom: webb@tsavo.hks.com (Peter Webb)\nNewsgroups: sci.space\nSubject: Stopping the sky-vandals\nDate: 13 May 1993 21:17:22 GMT\nOrganization: HKS, Inc.\nDistribution: world\n\n\n\nIf you don't want to see Space Marketing put up orbiting billboards, write\nthem, or call them, and tell them so. You might also write your\ncongresspeople. Space Marketing can be reached at:\n\nAttn: Mike Lawson\nPublic Relations Dept.\nSpace Marketing\n1495 Atmbree Rd., Suite 600\nRosewell, GA 30076\n(404)-442-9682\n\n--\nPeter Webb \t\t\t\t\twebb@hks.com\nHibbitt, Karlsson & Sorensen, Inc.\t\tVoice: 401-727-4200\n1080 Main St, Pawtucket RI 02860\t\tFAX: 401-727-4208 \n\n[Alternatively, you could try to find out who their clients\n will be and tell *them* how you feel.]\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\nNewsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space,sci.misc,sci.environment,talk.environment\nFrom: klaes@verga.enet.dec.com (Larry Klaes)\nSubject: Light Pollution (Space Ads) Information\nKeywords: light pollution, advertisements\nOrganization: Digital Equipment Corporation\nDate: Thu, 13 May 1993 20:45:36 GMT\n\n Dave Crawford (crawford@noao.edu), Executive Director of the \n International Dark-Sky Association (IDA), sent me information on where \n you can write in regards to the proposed \"Billboards in the Sky\" and\n asked me to post it:\n\n Karen Brown\n Center for the Study of Commercialism\n 1875 Connecticut Avenue, Suite 300\n Washington, D.C. 20009-5728\n U.S.A.\n\n Telephone: 202-797-7080\n Fax: 202-265-4954\n\n Please note that I have no involvement whatsoever with the CSC.\n\n Larry Klaes klaes@verga.enet.dec.com\n\t\t or - ...!decwrl!verga.enet.dec.com!klaes\n \t\t or - klaes%verga.dec@decwrl.enet.dec.com\n or - klaes%verga.enet.dec.com@uunet.uu.net\n\n \"All the Universe, or nothing!\" - H. G. Wells\n\n EJASA Editor, Astronomical Society of the Atlantic\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\nFrom: kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov\nNewsgroups: sci.space\nSubject: Re: Vandalizing the Sky\nDate: 10 May 93 21:51:11 GMT\nDistribution: sci\nOrganization: NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\nX-Posted-From: algol.jsc.nasa.gov\n\n[...]\n: That's roughly akin to saying let's let Anaconda strip-mine \n: the Grand Canyon so that strip-mining can boldly go where no \n: strip mining technology has gone before .. because after all, \n: mining means profits, and profits mean technological advance-\n: ment, and technogical advancement means prosperity, and pros-\n: perity means happiness, and so to hell with the Grand Canyon ..\n\nSpace advertisement in LOW Earth Orbit is very short term -- on the\norder of a few years before the orbit decays. (Higher orbits last\nlonger.) Advertisers will certainly be aware of the environmental\naspects of their advertising. Fred's argument is roughly akin to\nsaying that it's bad to cut down trees, so we shouldn't advertise in\nnewspapers. Think that through, Fred.\n\nPicture this: Our space billboard is a LARGE inflatable structure,\nfilled with \"bio-degradable\" foam instead of gas. It scoops up space\ndebris as it orbits, thus CLEANING the space environment and bringing\nyou The Pause That Refreshes at the same time. Because of the large\ndrag coefficient, it will de-orbit -- safely burning up -- within a\nyear.\n\nEmbedded in the foam structure is a small re-entry vehicle, which does\nnot burn up during entry. It contains the electronics and propulsion\nsystem (which may be refurbished and re-used) as well as space science\nexperiments proposed and built by high school students in\nadvertiser-sponsored science fairs.\n\nAdvertisers buy time on the billboard, whose surface is made up of\ntiny mirrors controlled by the avionics package. The avionics can\nreconfigure the mirrors to reflect different messages at different\nparts of the globe. Clever programming allows different languages\nto every country.\n\nDuring orbital night, the mirrors turn perpendicular to the surface,\nand small lights are revealed. The lights spell out messages for all\nto see.\n\n-- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office\n kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (713) 483-4368", "\nYou totally forgot the original post that you posted Allen. In that post\nyou stated that the \"wrap\" was on top of and in addition to any overhead.\nGeez in this post you finally admit that this is not true.\n\n\nCome your little ol buns down here and you will find out who is doing\nwhat and who is working on integration. This is simply an ad hominum\nattack and you know it.\n\n\nOf course there is a fee. It is for administration. Geez Allen any\norganization has costs but there is a heck of a difference in legitimate\ncosts, such as libraries and other things that must be there to support\na program and \"wrap\" as you originally stated it.You stated that wrap\nwas on top of all of the overhead which a couple of sentences down you\nsay is not true. Which is it Allen?\n\n\nAs you have posted on this subject Allen, you state that wrap is over and\nabove overhead and is a seperate charge. You admit here that this is wrong.\nNasa has a line item budget every year. I have seen it Allen. Get some\nnumbers from that detailed NASA budget and dig out the wrap numbers and then\nhowl to high heaven about it. Until you do that you are barking in the wind.\n\n\nIntegration could be done better at the centers. Apollo integration was \ndone here at Msfc and that did not turn out so bad. The philosophy of\nReston is totally wrong Allen. There you have a bunch of people who are\ncompletely removed from the work that they are trying to oversee. There\nis no way that will ever work. It has never worked in any large scale project\nthat it was ever tried on. Could you imagine a Reston like set up for \nApollo?\n\n\nOh you are full of it Allen on this one. I agree that JSC screwed up big.\nThey should be responsible for that screw up and the people that caused it\nreplaced. To make a stupid statement like that just shows how deep your\nbias goes. Come to MSFC for a couple of weeks and you will find out just\nhow wrong you really are. Maybe not, people like you believe exactly what\nthey want to believe no matter what the facts are contrary to it. \n\n\nI agree that integration is the single most important part of a successful\nlarge scale effort. What I completly disagree with is seperating that\nintegration function from the people that are doing the work. It is called\nleadership Allen. That is what made Apollo work. Final responsibility for\nthe success of Apollo was held by less than 50 people. That is leadership\nand responsibility. There is neither when you have any organization set up\nas Reston is. You could take the same people and move them to JSC or MSFC\nand they could do a much better job. Why did it take a year for Reston to\nfinally say something about the problem? If they were on site and part of the\nprocess then the problem would have never gotten out of hand in the first place.\n\nThere is one heck of a lot I do not know Allen, but one thing I do know is that\nfor a project to be successful you must have leadership. I remember all of the\nturn over at Reston that kept SSF program in shambles for years do you? It is\nlack of responsibility and leadership that is the programs problem. Lack of\nleadership from the White House, Congress and at Reston. Nasa is only a\nsymptom of a greater national problem. You are so narrowly focused in your\nefforts that you do not see this.\n\n\nNo, I am saying that if they were located at JSC it never would have \nhappened in the first place.\n\nI have the time to reitereate one more timet that if the leadership that is\nat reston was on site at JSC the problem never would have happened, totally\nignoring the lack of leadership of congress. This many headed hydra that\nhas grown up at NASA is the true problem of the Agency and to try to \nchange the question to suit you and your bias is only indicative of\nyour position.", "\nThey aren't going to leave a loophole as glaring as space mining. Quite a\nfew of those people are, when you come right down to it, basically against\nindustrial civilization. They won't stop with shutting down the mines here;\nthat is only a means to an end for them now.\n\nThe worst thing you can say to a true revolutionary is that his revolution\nis unnecessary, that the problems can be corrected without radical change.\nTelling people that paradise can be attained without the revolution is\ntreason of the vilest kind.\n\nTrying to harness these people to support spaceflight is like trying to\nharness a buffalo to pull your plough. He's got plenty of muscle, all\nright, but the furrow will go where he wants, not where you want.", "\n\nOk, so you have proven you saw the right stuff. However, as I said above,\nit takes politics and PR to keep the bucks coming.\n\"No politics, no bucks, no buck rogers.\"\n \n\nYes this may be true in the case of the SCIENCE data coming from the spacecraft\nand other stuff about the operations. However, there is still stuff regarding\nregular operation that belongs to the company and they have ever legal right\nto keeping it theirs. But this does not mean that everything can or\nshould be swept under the umbrella of company proprietory data.\n \n\nYou can do the same here...you just have to wait a year.\n \n\nSafeguard internal company data are indeed supported by US law. ", "\n _The_ problem with Oort cloud sources is that absolutely\n no plausible mechanism has been proposed. It would have\n to involve new physics as far as I can tell. Closest to\n \"conventional\" Oort sources is a model of B-field pinching\n by comets, it's got too many holes in it to count, but at\n least it was a good try...\n\nSo you have a plausible model for GRB's at astronomical distances?\nRecent observations have just about ruled out the merging neutron star\nhypothesis, which had a lot of problems, anyhow. We have to look for\nimplausible models and what is fundamentally allowed independent of\nmodels.\n\nA paper on the possibility of GRB's in the Oort cloud just came\nthrough the astrophysics abstract service. To get a copy of this\npaper, send a message to astro-ph@babbage.sissa.it with the subject\nline \n get 9304001\n\n\nHere is the abstract of that paper.\n\n The currently favored explanation for the origin of \\GRBs puts them\n at cosmological distances;\n but as long as there is no distance\n indicator to these events all possible sources which are\n isotropically distributed should remain under consideration. This is\n why the Oort cloud of comets is kept on the list,\n although there is no known mechanism for generating \\GRBs\n from cometary nuclei. Unlikely as it may seem, the possibility that \\GRBs\n originate in the solar cometary cloud\n cannot be excluded until it is disproved.\n\n We use the available data on the distribution of \\GRBs (the BATSE\n catalogue up to March, 1992), and\n the Catalogue of Cometary Orbits by Marsden and Williams (1992) to\n investigate whether there is any observational indication for correlations\n between the angular distributions of \\GRBs and comets' aphelia,\n assuming that the distribution of aphelia direction reflect,\n at least to some extent, true variations\n in the column density of the Oort cloud. We also apply the $\\vov$\n test to both distributions.", "\nUnfortunately, if you launch this from the US (or are a US citizen),\nyou will need a launch permit from the Office of Commercial Space\nTransportation, and I think it may be difficult to get a permit for\nan antisatellite weapon... :-)\n\nThe threshold at which OCST licensing kicks in is roughly 100km.\n(The rules are actually phrased in more complex ways, but that is\nthe result.)", "\nThere would be some point to doing long-term monitoring of things like\nparticles and fields, not to mention atmospheric phenomena. However,\nthere is no particular plan to establish any sort of monitoring network.\nTo be precise, there is no particular plan, period. This is a large\npart of the problem. In this context, it's not surprising that unexciting\nbut useful missions like this get short shrift at budget time. The closest\napproach to any sort of long-term planetary monitoring mission is the\noccasional chance to piggyback something like this on top of a flashier\nmission like Galileo or Cassini.\n\n\nIt is most unlikely that there is much happening on Pluto that would be\nworth monitoring, and it is a prohibitively difficult mission to fly\nwithout new propulsion technology (something the planetary community\nhas firmly resisted being the guinea pigs for). The combined need to\narrive at Pluto within a reasonable amount of time, and then kill nearly\nall of the cruise velocity to settle into an orbit, is beyond what can\nreasonably be done with current (that is, 1950s-vintage) propulsion.\n\n\nMost of this can be done just about as well from Earth. The few things\nthat can't be, can be done better from a Voyager-like spacecraft that is\n*not* constrained by the need to enter orbit around a planet.", "Well, you better not get the shuttle as your launch vehicle.\n\nand most ELV's have too far of a backlog for political messages.\n\nIf during the campaign season, the candidates for president had\nlaunched one, right around now we'd be getting a launch\nfor PEROT 92.\n\nand if they had used the shuttle, we'd be seeing launches\nfor NIXON now more then ever.", "I posted this over in sci.astro, but it didn't make it here.\nThought you all would like my wonderful pithy commentary :-)\n\nWhat? You guys have never seen the Goodyear blimp polluting\nthe daytime and nightime skies?\n\nActually an oribital sign would only be visible near\nsunset and sunrise, I believe. So pollution at night\nwould be minimal.\n\nIf it pays for space travel, go for it. Those who don't\nlike spatial billboards can then head for the pristine\nenvironment of Jupiter's moons :-)\n", "Just a pointer to the article in the current Science News article\non Federal R&D funding.\n\nVery briefly, all R&D is being shifted to gaining current \ncompetitive advantage from things like military and other work that\ndoes not have as much commercial utility.", "I assume that can only be guessed at by the assumed energy of the\nevent and the 1/r^2 law. So, if the 1/r^2 law is incorrect (assume\nsome unknown material [dark matter??] inhibits Gamma Ray propagation),\ncould it be possible that we are actually seeing much less energetic\nevents happening much closer to us? The even distribution could\nbe caused by the characteristic propagation distance of gamma rays \nbeing shorter then 1/2 the thickness of the disk of the galaxy.\n\nJust some idle babbling,\n-- \n\n Jim Batka | Work Email: BATKAJ@CCMAIL.DAYTON.SAIC.COM | Elvis is\n | Home Email: JBATKA@DESIRE.WRIGHT.EDU | DEAD!", "The most current orbital elements from the NORAD two-line element sets are\ncarried on the Celestial BBS, (513) 427-0674, and are updated daily (when\npossible). Documentation and tracking software are also available on this\nsystem. As a service to the satellite user community, the most current\nelements for the current shuttle mission are provided below. The Celestial\nBBS may be accessed 24 hours/day at 300, 1200, 2400, 4800, or 9600 bps using\n8 data bits, 1 stop bit, no parity.\n\nElement sets (also updated daily), shuttle elements, and some documentation\nand software are also available via anonymous ftp from archive.afit.af.mil\n(129.92.1.66) in the directory pub/space.\n\nSTS 55 \n1 22640U 93 27 A 93117.24999999 .00043819 00000-0 13174-3 0 47\n2 22640 28.4694 264.3224 0004988 261.3916 194.3250 15.90699957 104", "\n\nSorry that's an aesthetics argument. maybe this string shoudl mofe to\nsci.space.aesthetics.\n\nPlanes ruin the night sky. Blimps ruin the night sky. Radio towers\nruin the night sky. ", "\n This does not propose a _mechanism_ for GRBs in the Oort (and, no,\n anti-matter annihilation does not fit the spectra at least as far\n as I understand annihilation spectra...). Big difference.\n That's ignoring the question of how you fit a distribution\n to the Oort distribution when the Oort distribution is not well\n known - in particular comet aphelia (which are not well known)\n are not a good measure of the Oort cloud distribution...\n\nMerging neutron stars is at least a mechanism with about the right\nenergy, except it doesn't explain why there is no apparent correlation\nwith galaxies or galaxy structure, there is no mechanism for getting\nall the energy out in gamma rays (with any significant amount of\nbaryons around there will be a lot of pair production, which makes a\nplasma, which thermalizes the energy), it has trouble generating\nenough energy to explain the most powerful bursts (10^52-53 ergs), it\nhappens too fast compared to the burst duration, and it is hard to\nmake tight-binaries of neutron stars.\n\nAnother cosmological mechinism is the catalytic conversion of a\nneutron star to a strange star or the merger of two strange stars, but\nthat uses pretty far-out physics.\n\nMy point is that we don't have a good mechanism at any distance, so\nGRB's are likely to be happening by an unknown mechanism, so we can't\nrule out the Oort cloud. What would be the spectrum of an event which\nconverts a comet to strange matter? The spectra for primordial black\nholes eating comets and antimatter comets colliding with matter comets\naren't quite right, but perhaps there is an unusual mechanism which\nmodifies the spectrum. The energy matches very well for both of these\nmechanisms. According to Trevor Weeks, if the \"Tunguska Meteorite\"\nwas a mini-black hole collision with the earth, then there are likely\nto be enough mini-black holes around that the rate for BH-comet\ncollisions matches the GRB rate well.\n\nThe fact that we don't know the distribution of comets in the Oort\ncloud isn't a reason to rule them out; it makes it harder to rule them\nout. The point of the cited paper was that if we assume they got the\nright distribution for the Oort cloud, it is hard but not impossible\nto match that up with the distribution of GRB's. If they got the\nwrong distribution for the Oort cloud, they can't constrain any Oort-\ncloud GRB's at all.", "\n\nWhat do you mean? Are you saying they thought the effort was\nprofitable or that the money was efficiently spent (providing max\nvalue per money spent)?\n\nI think they would answer yes on ballance to both questions. Exceptions\nwould be places like the US from the French Indian War to the end of\nthe US Revolution. \n\nBut even after the colonies revolted or where given independance the\nBritish engaged in very lucrative trading with the former colonies.\nFive years after the American Revolution England was still the largest\nUS trading partner.\n\n Allen\n", "I am a newbie to the net, and I am trying to get some information for a paper\nI am working on to get back into college. If anyone can send me data on\nSolar coronal holes and recurrant aurora for the past thirty years it would be\na big help. Or, if you have information on more esoteric things like Telluric\ncurrent, surge bafflers power companies use, or other effects sporatic aurora\nhave on the Earth's magnetic field, I'd be eternally gratefull. Please send \nanything interesting to me at\n Marty Crandall-Grela\n Van Vleck Observatory\n Wesleyan University\n Middletown,Ct 06487\n or e-mail it to me at mcrandall@eagle.wesleyan.edu\n Thank-you in advance, Marty\n\n", "\n\n Well, almost. It turns out that clever orbital mechanics can \nengineer things so that resonant interactions with the higher order \nharmonics of the Earth's gravitational field can pump energy into a \nsatellite, and keep it from experiencing drag effects for periods of \nmonths to years. \n\n My favorite example of this is the Soviet/Russian heavy ELINT \nsatellites of the Cosmos 1603 class, which are in 14:1 resonance. In \nparticular, C1833 has undergone two periods of prolonged *gain* in \naltitude, the current one having started in June 1991; the mean altitude \nof the satellite is now as high as it has ever been since launch on 18 \nMarch 1987. (Looking at the elements for C1833 also shows the \nlimitations of NORAD's software -- but that's another story.) \n\n This probably has little relevance to space stations, since the 71 \ndegree orbits of the C1603 satellites are at 850 km, which is \nunacceptably far into the inner van Allen belt for manned platforms. But \nit's kind of interesting from the point of view of the physics of the \nsituation. \n\n (Orbital elements for these satellites are available on request.) \n\n\nAllen Thomson SAIC McLean, VA", "From the article \"What's New\" Apr-16-93 in sci.physics.research:\n\n........\nWHAT'S NEW (in my opinion), Friday, 16 April 1993 Washington, DC\n\n1. SPACE BILLBOARDS! IS THIS ONE THE \"SPINOFFS\" WE WERE PROMISED?\nIn 1950, science fiction writer Robert Heinlein published \"The\nMan Who Sold the Moon,\" which involved a dispute over the sale of\nrights to the Moon for use as billboard. NASA has taken the firsteps toward this\n hideous vision of the future. Observers were\nstartled this spring when a NASA launch vehicle arrived at the\npad with \"SCHWARZENEGGER\" painted in huge block letters on the\nside of the booster rockets. Space Marketing Inc. had arranged\nfor the ad to promote Arnold's latest movie. Now, Space Marketing\nis working with University of Colorado and Livermore engineers on\na plan to place a mile-long inflatable billboard in low-earth\norbit. NASA would provide contractual launch services. However,\nsince NASA bases its charge on seriously flawed cost estimates\n(WN 26 Mar 93) the taxpayers would bear most of the expense. This\nmay look like environmental vandalism, but Mike Lawson, CEO of\nSpace Marketing, told us yesterday that the real purpose of the\nproject is to help the environment! The platform will carry ozone\nmonitors he explained--advertising is just to help defray costs.\n..........\n\nWhat do you think of this revolting and hideous attempt to vandalize\nthe night sky? It is not even April 1 anymore.\nWhat about light pollution in observations? (I read somewhere else that\nit might even be visible during the day, leave alone at night).\nIs NASA really supporting this junk?\nAre protesting groups being organized in the States?\nReally, really depressed.\n\n Enzo", "\n\n\nI have to agree with Ward. The problem with your approach is they add\nup what you can reasonably claim as 'spin-offs', add up what's been\nspent on space, and then come back with something like, \"You spent $X\nbillion for that? Wouldn't it be better just to spend the money on\ndirect research and forget all this space stuff? We could have got\nall that stuff a *lot* cheaper that way. Space is wasteful and\ninefficient.\"\n\nThen they cancel your funding and spend it studying mating rituals of\nNew Guinea tribesmen or something.\n\n-- \n\"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live\n in the real world.\" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden", "Archive-name: space/acronyms\nEdition: 8\n\nAcronym List for sci.astro, sci.space, and sci.space.shuttle:\nEdition 8, 1992 Dec 7\nLast posted: 1992 Aug 27\n\nThis list is offered as a reference for translating commonly appearing\nacronyms in the space-related newsgroups. If I forgot or botched your\nfavorite acronym, please let me know! Also, if there's an acronym *not*\non this list that confuses you, drop me a line, and if I can figure\nit out, I'll add it to the list.\n\nNote that this is intended to be a reference for *frequently seen*\nacronyms, and is most emphatically *not* encyclopedic. If I incorporated\nevery acronym I ever saw, I'd soon run out of disk space! :-)\n\nThe list will be posted at regular intervals, every 30 days. All\ncomments regarding it are welcome; I'm reachable as bradfrd2@ncar.ucar.edu.\n\nNote that this just tells what the acronyms stand for -- you're on your\nown for figuring out what they *mean*! Note also that the total number of\nacronyms in use far exceeds what I can list; special-purpose acronyms that\nare essentially always explained as they're introduced are omitted.\nFurther, some acronyms stand for more than one thing; as of Edition 3 of\nthe list, these acronyms appear on multiple lines, unless they're simply\ndifferent ways of referring to the same thing.\n\nThanks to everybody who's sent suggestions since the first version of\nthe list, and especially to Garrett A. Wollman (wollman@griffin.uvm.edu),\nwho is maintaining an independent list, somewhat more verbose in\ncharacter than mine, and to Daniel Fischer (dfi@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de),\nwho is maintaining a truly HUGE list (535 at last count) of acronyms and\nterms, mostly in German (which I read, fortunately).\n\nSpecial thanks this time to Ken Hollis at NASA, who sent me a copy of NASA\nReference Publication 1059 Revised: _Space Transportation System and\nAssociated Payloads: Glossary, Acronyms, and Abbreviations_, a truly\nmammoth tome -- almost 300 pages of TLAs.\n\nSpecial Bonus! At the end of this posting, you will find a perl program\nwritten by none other than Larry Wall, whose purpose is to scramble the\nacronym list in an entertaining fashion. Thanks, Larry!\n\nA&A: Astronomy and Astrophysics\nAAO: Anglo-Australian Observatory\nAAS: American Astronomical Society\nAAS: American Astronautical Society\nAAVSO: American Association of Variable Star Observers\nACE: Advanced Composition Explorer\nACRV: Assured Crew Return Vehicle (or) Astronaut Crew Rescue Vehicle\nADFRF: Ames-Dryden Flight Research Facility (was DFRF) (NASA)\nAGN: Active Galactic Nucleus\nAGU: American Geophysical Union\nAIAA: American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics\nAIPS: Astronomical Image Processing System\nAJ: Astronomical Journal\nALEXIS: Array of Low Energy X-ray Imaging Sensors\nALPO: Association of Lunar and Planetary Observers\nALS: Advanced Launch System\nANSI: American National Standards Institute\nAOA: Abort Once Around (Shuttle abort plan)\nAOCS: Attitude and Orbit Control System\nAp.J: Astrophysical Journal\nAPM: Attached Pressurized Module (a.k.a. Columbus)\nAPU: Auxiliary Power Unit\nARC: Ames Research Center (NASA)\nARTEMIS: Advanced Relay TEchnology MISsion\nASA: Astronomical Society of the Atlantic\nASI: Agenzia Spaziale Italiano\nASRM: Advanced Solid Rocket Motor\nATDRS: Advanced Tracking and Data Relay Satellite\nATLAS: Atmospheric Laboratory for Applications and Science\nATM: Amateur Telescope Maker\nATO: Abort To Orbit (Shuttle abort plan)\nAU: Astronomical Unit\nAURA: Association of Universities for Research in Astronomy\nAW&ST: Aviation Week and Space Technology (a.k.a. AvLeak)\nAXAF: Advanced X-ray Astrophysics Facility\nBATSE: Burst And Transient Source Experiment (on CGRO)\nBBXRT: Broad-Band X-Ray Telescope (ASTRO package)\nBEM: Bug-Eyed Monster\nBH: Black Hole\nBIMA: Berkeley Illinois Maryland Array\nBNSC: British National Space Centre\nBTW: By The Way\nC&T: Communications & Tracking\nCCAFS: Cape Canaveral Air Force Station\nCCD: Charge-Coupled Device\nCCDS: Centers for the Commercial Development of Space\nCD-ROM: Compact Disk Read-Only Memory\nCFA: Center For Astrophysics\nCFC: ChloroFluoroCarbon\nCFF: Columbus Free Flyer\nCFHT: Canada-France-Hawaii Telescope\nCGRO: (Arthur Holley) Compton Gamma Ray Observatory (was GRO)\nCHARA: Center for High Angular Resolution Astronomy\nCIRRIS: Cryogenic InfraRed Radiance Instrument for Shuttle\nCIT: Circumstellar Imaging Telescope\nCM: Command Module (Apollo spacecraft)\nCMCC: Central Mission Control Centre (ESA)\nCNES: Centre National d'Etude Spatiales\nCNO: Carbon-Nitrogen-Oxygen\nCNSR: Comet Nucleus Sample Return\nCOBE: COsmic Background Explorer\nCOMPTEL: COMPton TELescope (on CGRO)\nCOSTAR: Corrective Optics Space Telescope Axial Replacement\nCRAF: Comet Rendezvous / Asteroid Flyby\nCRRES: Combined Release / Radiation Effects Satellite\nCSM: Command and Service Module (Apollo spacecraft)\nCSTC: Consolidated Satellite Test Center (USAF)\nCTIO: Cerro Tololo Interamerican Observatory\nDCX: Delta Clipper eXperimental\nDDCU: DC-to-DC Converter Unit\nDFRF: Dryden Flight Research Facility (now ADFRF)\nDMSP: Defense Meteorological Satellite Program\nDOD: Department Of Defense (sometimes DoD)\nDOE: Department Of Energy\nDOT: Department Of Transportation\nDSCS: Defense Satellite Communications System\nDSN: Deep Space Network\nDSP: Defense Support Program (USAF/NRO)\nEAFB: Edwards Air Force Base\nECS: Environmental Control System\nEDO: Extended Duration Orbiter\nEGRET: Energetic Gamma Ray Experiment Telescope (on CGRO)\nEJASA: Electronic Journal of the Astronomical Society of the Atlantic\nELV: Expendable Launch Vehicle\nEMU: Extravehicular Mobility Unit\nEOS: Earth Observing System\nERS: Earth Resources Satellite (as in ERS-1)\nESA: European Space Agency\nESO: European Southern Observatory\nET: (Shuttle) External Tank\nETLA: Extended Three Letter Acronym\nETR: Eastern Test Range\nEUV: Extreme UltraViolet\nEUVE: Extreme UltraViolet Explorer\nEVA: ExtraVehicular Activity\nFAQ: Frequently Asked Questions\nFAST: Fast Auroral SnapshoT explorer\nFFT: Fast Fourier Transform\nFGS: Fine Guidance Sensors (on HST)\nFHST: Fixed Head Star Trackers (on HST)\nFIR: Far InfraRed\nFITS: Flexible Image Transport System\nFOC: Faint Object Camera (on HST)\nFOS: Faint Object Spectrograph (on HST)\nFRR: Flight-Readiness Review\nFTP: File Transfer Protocol\nFTS: Flight Telerobotic Servicer\nFUSE: Far Ultraviolet Spectroscopic Explorer\nFWHM: Full Width at Half Maximum\nFYI: For Your Information\nGAS: Get-Away Special\nGBT: Green Bank Telescope\nGCVS: General Catalog of Variable Stars\nGEM: Giotto Extended Mission\nGEO: Geosynchronous Earth Orbit\nGDS: Great Dark Spot\nGHRS: Goddard High Resolution Spectrograph (on HST)\nGIF: Graphics Interchange Format\nGLOMR: Global Low-Orbiting Message Relay\nGMC: Giant Molecular Cloud\nGMRT: Giant Meter-wave Radio Telescope\nGMT: Greenwich Mean Time (also called UT)\nGOES: Geostationary Orbiting Environmental Satellite\nGOX: Gaseous OXygen\nGPC: General Purpose Computer\nGPS: Global Positioning System\nGRO: Gamma Ray Observatory (now CGRO)\nGRS: Gamma Ray Spectrometer (on Mars Observer)\nGRS: Great Red Spot\nGSC: Guide Star Catalog (for HST)\nGSFC: Goddard Space Flight Center (NASA)\nGTO: Geostationary Transfer Orbit\nHAO: High Altitude Observatory\nHD: Henry Draper catalog entry\nHEAO: High Energy Astronomical Observatory\nHeRA: Hermes Robotic Arm\nHF: High Frequency\nHGA: High Gain Antenna\nHLC: Heavy Lift Capability\nHLV: Heavy Lift Vehicle\nHMC: Halley Multicolor Camera (on Giotto)\nHR: Hertzsprung-Russell (diagram)\nHRI: High Resolution Imager (on ROSAT)\nHSP: High Speed Photometer (on HST)\nHST: Hubble Space Telescope\nHUT: Hopkins Ultraviolet Telescope (ASTRO package)\nHV: High Voltage\nIAPPP: International Amateur/Professional Photoelectric Photometry\nIAU: International Astronomical Union\nIAUC: IAU Circular\nICE: International Cometary Explorer\nIDA: International Dark-sky Association\nIDL: Interactive Data Language\nIGM: InterGalactic Medium\nIGY: International Geophysical Year\nIMHO: In My Humble Opinion\nIOTA: Infrared-Optical Telescope Array\nIOTA: International Occultation Timing Association\nIPS: Inertial Pointing System\nIR: InfraRed\nIRAF: Image Reduction and Analysis Facility\nIRAS: InfraRed Astronomical Satellite\nISAS: Institute of Space and Astronautical Science (Japan)\nISM: InterStellar Medium\nISO: Infrared Space Observatory\nISO: International Standards Organization\nISPM: International Solar Polar Mission (now Ulysses)\nISY: International Space Year\nIUE: International Ultraviolet Explorer\nIUS: Inertial Upper Stage\nJEM: Japanese Experiment Module (for SSF)\nJGR: Journal of Geophysical Research\nJILA: Joint Institute for Laboratory Astrophysics\nJPL: Jet Propulsion Laboratory\nJSC: Johnson Space Center (NASA)\nKAO: Kuiper Airborne Observatory\nKPNO: Kitt Peak National Observatory\nKSC: Kennedy Space Center (NASA)\nKTB: Cretaceous-Tertiary Boundary (from German)\nLANL: Los Alamos National Laboratory\nLaRC: Langley Research Center (NASA)\nLDEF: Long Duration Exposure Facility\nLEM: Lunar Excursion Module (a.k.a. LM) (Apollo spacecraft)\nLEO: Low Earth Orbit\nLeRC: Lewis Research Center (NASA)\nLEST: Large Earth-based Solar Telescope\nLFSA: List of Frequently Seen Acronyms (!)\nLGA: Low Gain Antenna\nLGM: Little Green Men\nLH: Liquid Hydrogen (also LH2 or LHX)\nLLNL: Lawrence-Livermore National Laboratory\nLM: Lunar Module (a.k.a. LEM) (Apollo spacecraft)\nLMC: Large Magellanic Cloud\nLN2: Liquid N2 (Nitrogen)\nLOX: Liquid OXygen\nLRB: Liquid Rocket Booster\nLSR: Local Standard of Rest\nLTP: Lunar Transient Phenomenon\nMB: Manned Base\nMCC: Mission Control Center\nMECO: Main Engine CutOff\nMMH: MonoMethyl Hydrazine\nMMT: Multiple Mirror Telescope\nMMU: Manned Maneuvering Unit\nMNRAS: Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society\nMOC: Mars Observer Camera (on Mars Observer)\nMOL: Manned Orbiting Laboratory\nMOLA: Mars Observer Laser Altimeter (on Mars Observer)\nMOMV: Manned Orbital Maneuvering Vehicle\nMOTV: Manned Orbital Transfer Vehicle\nMPC: Minor Planets Circular\nMRSR: Mars Rover and Sample Return\nMRSRM: Mars Rover and Sample Return Mission\nMSFC: (George C.) Marshall Space Flight Center (NASA)\nMTC: Man Tended Capability\nNACA: National Advisory Committee on Aeronautics (became NASA)\nNASA: National Aeronautics and Space Administration\nNASDA: NAtional Space Development Agency (Japan)\nNASM: National Air and Space Museum\nNASP: National AeroSpace Plane\nNBS: National Bureau of Standards (now NIST)\nNDV: NASP Derived Vehicle\nNERVA: Nuclear Engine for Rocket Vehicle Application\nNGC: New General Catalog\nNICMOS: Near Infrared Camera / Multi Object Spectrometer (HST upgrade)\nNIMS: Near-Infrared Mapping Spectrometer (on Galileo)\nNIR: Near InfraRed\nNIST: National Institute for Standards and Technology (was NBS)\nNLDP: National Launch Development Program\nNOAA: National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration\nNOAO: National Optical Astronomy Observatories\nNRAO: National Radio Astronomy Observatory\nNRO: National Reconnaissance Office\nNS: Neutron Star\nNSA: National Security Agency\nNSF: National Science Foundation\nNSO: National Solar Observatory\nNSSDC: National Space Science Data Center\nNTR: Nuclear Thermal Rocket(ry)\nNTT: New Technology Telescope\nOAO: Orbiting Astronomical Observatory\nOCST: Office of Commercial Space Transportation\nOMB: Office of Management and Budget\nOMS: Orbital Maneuvering System\nOPF: Orbiter Processing Facility\nORFEUS: Orbiting and Retrievable Far and Extreme Ultraviolet Spectrometer\nOSC: Orbital Sciences Corporation\nOSCAR: Orbiting Satellite Carrying Amateur Radio\nOSSA: Office of Space Science and Applications\nOSSE: Oriented Scintillation Spectrometer Experiment (on CGRO)\nOTA: Optical Telescope Assembly (on HST)\nOTHB: Over The Horizon Backscatter\nOTV: Orbital Transfer Vehicle\nOV: Orbital Vehicle\nPAM: Payload Assist Module\nPAM-D: Payload Assist Module, Delta-class\nPI: Principal Investigator\nPLSS: Portable Life Support System\nPM: Pressurized Module\nPMC: Permanently Manned Capability\nPMIRR: Pressure Modulated InfraRed Radiometer (on Mars Observer)\nPMT: PhotoMultiplier Tube\nPSF: Point Spread Function\nPSR: PulSaR\nPV: Photovoltaic\nPVO: Pioneer Venus Orbiter\nQSO: Quasi-Stellar Object\nRCI: Rodent Cage Interface (for SLS mission)\nRCS: Reaction Control System\nREM: Rat Enclosure Module (for SLS mission)\nRF: Radio Frequency\nRFI: Radio Frequency Interference\nRIACS: Research Institute for Advanced Computer Science\nRMS: Remote Manipulator System\nRNGC: Revised New General Catalog\nROSAT: ROentgen SATellite\nROUS: Rodents Of Unusual Size (I don't believe they exist)\nRSN: Real Soon Now\nRTG: Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator\nRTLS: Return To Launch Site (Shuttle abort plan)\nSAA: South Atlantic Anomaly\nSAGA: Solar Array Gain Augmentation (for HST)\nSAMPEX: Solar Anomalous and Magnetospheric Particle EXplorer\nSAO: Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory\nSAR: Search And Rescue\nSAR: Synthetic Aperture Radar\nSARA: Satellite pour Astronomie Radio Amateur\nSAREX: Search and Rescue Exercise\nSAREX: Shuttle Amateur Radio Experiment\nSAS: Space Activity Suit\nSAS: Space Adaptation Syndrome\nSAT: Synthetic Aperture Telescope\nS/C: SpaceCraft\nSCA: Shuttle Carrier Aircraft\nSCT: Schmidt-Cassegrain Telescope\nSDI: Strategic Defense Initiative\nSDIO: Strategic Defense Initiative Organization\nSEI: Space Exploration Initiative\nSEST: Swedish ESO Submillimeter Telescope\nSETI: Search for ExtraTerrestrial Intelligence\nSID: Sudden Ionospheric Disturbance\nSIR: Shuttle Imaging Radar\nSIRTF: Space (formerly Shuttle) InfraRed Telescope Facility\nSL: SpaceLab\nSLAR: Side-Looking Airborne Radar\nSLC: Space Launch Complex\nSLS: Space(lab) Life Sciences\nSMC: Small Magellanic Cloud\nSME: Solar Mesosphere Explorer\nSMEX: SMall EXplorers\nSMM: Solar Maximum Mission\nSN: SuperNova (e.g., SN1987A)\nSNR: Signal to Noise Ratio\nSNR: SuperNova Remnant\nSNU: Solar Neutrino Units\nSOFIA: Stratospheric Observatory For Infrared Astronomy\nSOHO: SOlar Heliospheric Observatory\nSPAN: Space Physics and Analysis Network\nSPDM: Special Purpose Dextrous Manipulator\nSPOT: Systeme Probatoire pour l'Observation de la Terre\nSPS: Solar Power Satellite\nSRB: Solid Rocket Booster\nSRM: Solid Rocket Motor\nSSF: Space Station Fred (er, Freedom)\nSSI: Solid-State Imager (on Galileo)\nSSI: Space Studies Institut\nSSME: Space Shuttle Main Engine\nSSPF: Space Station Processing Facility\nSSRMS: Space Station Remote Manipulator System\nSST: Spectroscopic Survey Telescope\nSST: SuperSonic Transport\nSSTO: Single Stage To Orbit\nSTIS: Space Telescope Imaging Spectrometer (to replace FOC and GHRS)\nSTS: Shuttle Transport System (or) Space Transportation System\nSTScI: Space Telescope Science Institute\nSWAS: Submillimeter Wave Astronomy Satellite\nSWF: ShortWave Fading\nTAL: Transatlantic Abort Landing (Shuttle abort plan)\nTAU: Thousand Astronomical Unit (mission)\nTCS: Thermal Control System\nTDRS: Tracking and Data Relay Satellite\nTDRSS: Tracking and Data Relay Satellite System\nTES: Thermal Emission Spectrometer (on Mars Observer)\nTIROS: Television InfraRed Observation Satellite\nTLA: Three Letter Acronym\nTOMS: Total Ozone Mapping Spectrometer\nTPS: Thermal Protection System\nTSS: Tethered Satellite System\nUARS: Upper Atmosphere Research Satellite\nUBM: Unpressurized Berthing Mechanism\nUDMH: Unsymmetrical DiMethyl Hydrazine\nUFO: Unidentified Flying Object\nUGC: Uppsala General Catalog\nUHF: Ultra High Frequency\nUIT: Ultraviolet Imaging Telescope (Astro package)\nUKST: United Kingdom Schmidt Telescope\nUSAF: United States Air Force\nUSMP: United States Microgravity Payload\nUT: Universal Time (a.k.a. GMT, UTC, or Zulu Time)\nUTC: Coordinated Universal Time (a.k.a. UT)\nUV: UltraViolet\nUVS: UltraViolet Spectrometer\nVAB: Vehicle Assembly Building (formerly Vertical Assembly Building)\nVAFB: Vandenberg Air Force Base\nVEEGA: Venus-Earth-Earth Gravity Assist (Galileo flight path)\nVHF: Very High Frequency\nVLA: Very Large Array\nVLBA: Very Long Baseline Array\nVLBI: Very Long Baseline Interferometry\nVLF: Very Low Frequency\nVLT: Very Large Telescope\nVMS: Vertical Motion Simulator\nVOIR: Venus Orbiting Imaging Radar (superseded by VRM)\nVPF: Vertical Processing Facility\nVRM: Venus Radar Mapper (now called Magellan)\nWD: White Dwarf\nWFPC: Wide Field / Planetary Camera (on HST)\nWFPCII: Replacement for WFPC\nWIYN: Wisconsin / Indiana / Yale / NOAO telescope\nWSMR: White Sands Missile Range\nWTR: Western Test Range\nWUPPE: Wisconsin Ultraviolet PhotoPolarimter Experiment (Astro package)\nXMM: X-ray Multi Mirror\nXUV: eXtreme UltraViolet\nYSO: Young Stellar Object\n\n\n#!/usr/bin/perl\n# 'alt', An Acronym Scrambling Program, by Larry Wall\n\n$THRESHOLD = 2;\n\nsrand;\nwhile (<>) {\n next unless /^([A-Z]\\S+): */;\n $key = $1;\n $acro{$key} = $';\n @words = split(/\\W+/,$');\n unshift(@words,$key);\n $off = 0;\n foreach $word (@words) {\n next unless $word =~ /^[A-Z]/;\n *w = $&;\n vec($w{$word}, $off++ % 6, 1) = 1;\n }\n}\n\nforeach $letter (A .. Z) {\n *w = $letter;\n @w = keys %w;\n if (@w < $THRESHOLD) {\n @d = `egrep '^$letter' /usr/dict/words`;\n chop @d;\n push(@w, @d);\n }\n}\n\nforeach $key (sort keys %acro) {\n $off = 0;\n $acro = $acro{$key};\n $acro =~ s/((([A-Z])[A-Z]*)[a-z]*)/ &pick($3, $2, $1, ++$off) || $& /eg;\n print \"$key: $acro\";\n}\n\nsub pick {\n local($letter, $prefix, $oldword, $off) = @_;\n $i = 0;\n if (length($prefix) > 1 && index($key,$prefix) < 0) {\n if ($prefix eq $oldword) {\n $prefix = '';\n }\n else {\n $prefix = $letter;\n }\n }\n if (length($prefix) > 1) {\n local(*w) = substr($prefix,0,1);\n do {\n $word = $w[rand @w];\n } until $word ne $oldword && $word =~ /^$prefix/i || ++$i > 30;\n $word =~ s/^$prefix/$prefix/i;\n $word;\n }\n elsif (length($prefix) == 1) {\n local(*w) = $prefix;\n do {\n $word = $w[rand @w];\n } until $word ne $oldword && vec($w{$word}, $off, 1) || ++$i > 10;\n $word = \"\\u\\L$word\" if $word =~ tr/a-z/A-Z/;\n $word;\n }\n else {\n local(*w) = substr($oldword,0,1);\n do {\n $word = $w[rand @w];\n } until $word ne $oldword && $word =~ tr/a-z/A-Z/ == 0 || ++$i > 30;\n $word;\n }\n}\n", "\nThe Proton has been used in 2, 3, and 4 stage versions. The two stage version\nwas used for the first 3 launches, while the 3 and 4 stage versions are used\ntoday. The four stage version is used mostly for escape (and geosynchronous?)\norbits, while the 3 stage version is used for low earth orbits. Since this is\nthe version that launched Mir and the Salyuts (and the add-on modules for Mir),\nas long as Centaur is smaller than Mir (which I believe it is), it should fit\nunder the shroud.\n\nI vaguely recall that the Russians are developing a LH2/LOX upper stage for the\nProton.", "\nI like this statement, though for my own reasons. Cost comparisons depend\na lot on whether the two options are similar, and *then* it becomes very\nrevealing to consider what their differences are. Can Soyuz launch the\nLong Exposure Facility? Course not. Will the Shuttle take my television \nrelay to LEO by year's end? Almost certainly not, but the Russians are\npretty good about making space accessible on a tight schedule.\n\nComparing S and SS points up that there are TWO active space\nlauncher-and-work-platform resources, with similarities and differences.\nWhere they are in direct competition, we may get to see some market\neconomics come into play.\n\ntombaker", "Regarding drag free satellites, Joe Cain gives a good description of the concept. It is however more than a concept. The Navy's Triad satellite succesfully used drag free control. Drag free control is an integral part of the Stanford Gravity Probe-B spacecraft, due to fly in 1999. It is also part of the European STEP satellite.", "\nAlso remember that every dollar spent keeping one spacecraft in safe mode\n(probably a spin-stabilized sun-pointing orientation) is a dollar not\nspent on mission analysis for a newer spacecraft. In order to turn the\nspacecraft back on, you either need to insure that the Ops guys will be\navailable, or you need to retrain a new team.\n\nHaving said that, there are some spacecraft that do what you have proposed.\nMany of the operational satellites Goddard flies (like the Tiros NOAA \nseries) require more than one satellite in orbit for an operational set.\nExtras which get replaced on-orbit are powered into a \"standby\" mode for\nuse in an emergency. In that case, however, the same ops team is still\nrequired to fly the operational birds; so the standby maintenance is\nrelatively cheap.\n\nFinally, Pat's explanation (some spacecraft require continuous maintenance\nto stay under control) is also right on the mark. I suggested a spin-\nstabilized control mode because it would require little power or \nmaintenance, but it still might require some momentum dumping from time\nto time.\n\nIn the end, it *is* a political decision (since the difference is money),\nbut there is some technical rationale behind the decision.", "\nCould it be Public Missile, Inc in Michigan?\n\nFrom the description of ad here, it sounds like they're talking about\n\"High Power Rocketry\", an outgrowth of model rocketry. This hobby\nuses non-metallic structural compoments and commerically manufactured\nengines ranging in impulse classification from G to P. The hobby\nhas been flourishing from early 1980s and is becoming increasing popular.\nTechnically this is not consider amateur rocketry.\n\nAny rocket with a liftoff weight greater than 3.3 pounds OR using a\ntotal impulse of G or greater, REQUIRES an FAA waiver to launch.\nTypically, a group of people get an FAA waiver for specified period\nof time (ie week, weekend, etc.) at a designated site and time, and\nall of the launches are then covered under this \"blanket waiver\".\nThere is also a \"High Power Safety Code\" which designates more\nspecific rules such as launch field size, etc.\n\nFinally, in order to purchase any of the larger (Class B) rocket \nmotors you need to certified through either the National Association\nof Rocketry or Tripoli Rocketry Association. Certification procedures\nrequire a demonstarted handling and \"safe\" flight at a total impulse\nlevel.\n\nFor more information, watch rec.models.rockets newsgroup.", "\nAlan,\n\n\tdon't forget, a HUGE cost for airliner developement is FAA\ncertification. the joke is when the paperwork exceeds teh weight\nof the airplane, it will fly.\n\nThe SR-71, and teh X-15 both highly ambitious aero-space projects were done\non very narrow engineering budgets. Partly because they didn't spend much\non paper pushing. There is some company in missouri trying to\nget funding to build light commercial transporters on a low cost basis,\nmostly by reducing FAA certification costs.", "\n\nThis presupposes that no supersonic ramjet aircraft/spacecraft can be reliable\nor low-cost. This is unproven.", ": >Why not build a inflatable space dock.\n\n: If you're doing large-scale satellite servicing, being able to do it in\n: a pressurized hangar makes considerable sense. The question is whether\n: anyone is going to be doing large-scale satellite servicing in the near\n: future, to the point of justifying development of such a thing.\n\nThat's a mighty fine idea. But since you asked \"Why not,\" I'll\nrespond.\n\nPutting aside the application of such a space dock, there are other\nfactors to consider than just pressurized volume. Temperature control\nis difficult in space, and your inflatable hangar will have to \nincorporate thermal insulation (maybe a double-walled inflatable).\nMicrometeoroid protection and radiation protection are also required.\nDon't think this will be a clear plastic bubble; it's more likely\nto look like a big white ball made out of the same kind of multi-layer\nfabric that soft-torso space suits are made out of today.\n\nBecause almost all manned space vessels (Skylab, Mir, Salyut) used\ntheir pressurization for increased structural rigidity, even though\nthey had (have) metal skins, they still kind of qualify as inflatable.\n\nThe inflation process would have to be carefully controlled. The\nspace environment reduces ductility in exposed materials (due to\ntemperature extremes, monotomic Oxygen impingement, and radiation\neffects on materials), so your \"fabric\" may not retain any flexibility\nfor long. (This may not matter.) Even after inflation, pressure\nchanges in the hangar may cause flexing in the fabric, which could\nlead to holes and tears as ductility decreases.\n\nThese are some of the technical difficulties which the LLNL proposal\nfor an inflatable space station dealt with to varying degrees of\nsuccess.\n\n-- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office\n kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (713) 483-4368", "\nI realy like this idea, it would be wonderfull to see such a \nbig bright satelite on the night sky. I will even promise to\ntry to buy whatever product it advertises to help this project.\n\nPlease write to Space Marketing and encourage this project.\nI sadly dosent have enough money to invest in it.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n--", "\nRobert McElwaine is the authoritative source of scientific data on Internet.\nHe can be reached alt.fan.mc-elwaine...\n\nSpiros", "\n\n\nJust as a matter of interest, a self-promo computer graphics sequence \nthat one of the local TV stations used to play quite a lot a couple of\nyears ago showed a 3D flyover of Australia from the West coast to the\nEast. The clouds were quite recognisable as fuzzy, flat, white\nMandlebrot sets!!", "\n\n\nThat is an exceptionally cool idea.\nWould it work?\n\nHow strong a field is needed?\nAnyone?\n\n", "\n\n\n\n\nI don't have to \"try reading a bit\", Pat. I *work* as a government\ncontractor and know what the rules are like. Yes, they sign some\n(damned few -- which is why everyone is always having to go to\nWashington to see about next week's funding) multi-year contracts;\nthey also aren't willing to include sufficient cancellation penalties\nwhen they *do* decide to cut the multi-year contract and not pay on it\n(which can happen arbitrarily at any time, no matter what previous\nplans were) to make the risk acceptable of something like putting up a\nprivate space station with the government as the expected prime\noccupant.\n\nI'd like a source for that statement about \"the reason they aren't\ncutting defense spending as much as they would like\"; I just don't buy\nit. The other thing I find a bit 'funny' about your posting, Pat, is\nthat several other people answered the question pretty much the same\nway I did; mine is the one you comment (and incorrectly, I think) on.\nI think that says a lot. You and Tommy should move in together.\n\n-- \n\"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live\n in the real world.\" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden", "The Apollo astronauts also trained at (in) Meteor Crater in the Flagstaff\narea (Arizona). There is now a museum with a space shop.\nCaution: they ease you by 6$. Compared to a KSC visit it's not worth.", "Some birds require constant management for survival. Pointing a sensor at\nthe sun, even when powered down, may burn it out. Pointing a\nparabolic antenna at Sol, from venus orbit may trash the\nfoci elements.\n\nEven if you let teh bird drift, it may get hosed by some\ncosmic phenomena. ", "I haven't seen any mention of this in a while, so here goes...\n\nWhen the Hubble Telescope was first deployed, one of its high gain antennas\nwas not able to be moved across its full range of motion. It was suspected\nthat it had been snagged on a cable or something. Operational procedures\nwere modified to work around the problem, and later problems have overshadowed\nthe HGA problem.\n\nIs there any plan to look at the affected HGA during the HST repair mission,\nto determine the cause of its limited range of motion? Is the affected HGA\nstill limited, or is it now capable of full range of motion?\n", "It has been known for quite a while that the earth is actually more pear\nshaped than globular/spherical. Does anyone make a \"globe\" that is accurate\nas to actual shape, landmass configuration/Long/Lat lines etc.?\nThanks in advance.\n\n--\n\nbill@xpresso.UUCP (Bill Vance), Bothell, WA\nrwing!xpresso!bill", "I have attached a copy of an announcement I picked up during my trip to\nMoscow last week. I have several friends at the Moscow Aviation\nInstitute who have asked me to post this announcement. (I have done\nsome editing, but the contents is unchanged from the original\nannouncement.) \n\nFor those of you not familiar with the Moscow Aviation Institute, it is\nthe leading Russian school of higher education dedicated to the training\nof aircraft and spacecraft designers. It specializes in airframe\ndesign, powerplant design, control systems, and power systems.\nVirtually all of the major former Soviet airframe designers (Tupolev,\nSu, Iluchine, Migoyan, etc.) were schooled at MAI.\n\nI had the opportunity to tour the two museums that are maintained at\nMAI. The aircraft include Mig23, Su 27, Yak 38, the cockpit of an\nF-111(!), among others. It was a fascinating and eye opening\nexperience, expecially given the fact that the museum was, until a year\nor so ago, closed to virtually everyone. I also had the opportunity to\nsee some of the experiments being conducted with plasma drive engines\nfor future space craft use.\n\nIf you have any questions about the Institute, or the program, I would\nbe glad to try and answer them. The institute, and most of it's faculty\nhave e-mail addresses. However, it takes about a day or so for the\nreceiver to get the message. They are still a bit antiquated - but they\nare rapidly changing!\n\nSteve Emmett\nsemmett@gmuvax2.gmu.edu\n\nps please send any questions you have for me via e-mail. George Mason\nuniversity has about a 2 week (!) delay in news feed delivery.\n\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n\t\tMOSCOW INTERNATIONAL AVIATION SCHOOL\n\nThe aviation school \"Poljot\" (meaning Flight) is organized by the the\nMoscow Aviation Institute, the prominent Russian Center of airspace\neducation and the foreign trade firm Poljot, well known in various\nparts of the world for their quartz and mechanical wrist watches.\n\nThe course of studies will last only 50 days, but during this time\nyou will have the unique opportunity:\n\t- to listen to intensive courses on the main aviation\ndisciplines, the history and theory of techniques, and design of\nairplanes;\n\t- to visit and get acquainted with the world known Russian \naviation firms - TU, MiG, Yak, Il and Su;\n\t- to meet and have discussions with famous aviation\nscientists, engineers and pilots;\n\t- to visit the most interesting museums of unique aviation\ntechniques which were closed for many years to the public;\n\t- to see the International Airspace Show which will take\nplace in Moscow from 31 August through 3 September 1993;\n\t- to visit famous art museums, historical and architectural\nmonuments, theatres and concert halls;\n\t- to take part in sport competitions and have a great time\nwith new friends.\n\nThe Director of the school is Mr. Oleg Samelovich, a well known\nRussian scientist, professor, general designer and the Chief of the\nAirplanes Design Department of the Moscow Aviation Institute. Mr.\nSamelovich is one of the designers of the the Su-24, Su-25, and Su-27\n\nThe lectures are given in English, using a multi-media concept. The\nstudents are provided with all the necessary text books and\nliterature. After the full course of studies are completed, the\nstudent will receive a special certificate of graduation.\n\nThe cost of studies, including hotel, meals, excursions, theatres,\netc is $3500.\n\nTo apply for admission, send your application to:\n\n109147 Moscow Marksistskaja 34\nForeign Trade Firm \"Poljot\"\n274 00 13 (phone)\n274 00 22 (FAX)\n411989 POLEX SU (telex)\n\nIn your application, include your full name, address, date and place\nof birth. In addition, include complete passport information, as well\nas a description of your education.\n\nUpon receipt of this information, \"Poljot\" will immediately forward\nto you an official invitation for obtaining a Russian entrance visa\nas well as details on payment.\n\nShould you require additional information, please do not hesitate to\ncontact us.\n\n(signed)\tO. Samelovich\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n\n-- \n\nSteve Emmett\t\t\t\t semmett@gmuvax2.gmu.edu", "\n\n\nDoug-- Actually, if memory serves, the Atlas is an outgrowth of the old \nTitan ICBM. If so, there's probably quite a few old pads, albeit in need \nof some serious reconditioning. Still, Being able to buy the turf and \npad (and bunkers, including prep facility) at Midwest farmland prices \nstrikes me as pretty damned cheap.\n", "A related question (which I haven't given that much serious thought \nto): at what lattitude is the average length of the day (averaged \nover the whole year) maximized? Is this function a constant=\n12 hours? Is it truly symmetric about the equator? Or is\nthere some discrepancy due to the fact that the orbit is elliptic\n(or maybe the difference is enough to change the temperature and\nmake the seasons in the southern hemisphere more bitter, but\nis far too small to make a sizeable difference in daylight\nhours)?\n\nI want to know where to move.", "Regarding the feasability of retrieving the HST for repair and\nrelaunching it:\n\n(Caution: speculation mode engaged)\nThere is another consideration that hasn't been mentioned yet.\nI expect that retrieving HST would involve 'damaging' it considerably in\norder to return it to its cradle in the cargo bay. Most of the deployed\nitems (antennas and, especially, the solar arays) probably are not\nretractable into their fully stowed position, even by hand. They would\nhave to be removed by the astronauts. (The only advantage that this\nmight yield is that we could put new panels on that don't 'ring' due\nto thermal cycle stresses...)\n\nI also expect that, as has been discussed, the landing loads on the\nHST optics structure is a big issue (but that the reentry loads are\nmuch less so.) Can the moveable optical components even be re-caged\n(I assume that they were caged for launch)?\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nMichael Corvin \t \t\t\t\tzwork@starfighter.den.mmc.com\nGN&C R&D\t\t\t\t\tMartin Marietta Astronautics\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n=============== My views, not Martin Marietta's ========================", "\nAhh, perhaps that's why we've (astronomers) have just built *2* 10-meter\nground-based scopes and are studying designs for larger ones.\nSeriously, though, you're never going to get a 10-meter scope into orbit\nas cheaply as you can build one on the ground, and with adaptive optics\nand a good site, the difference in quality is narrowed quite a bit\nanyway. Also, scopes in low orbit (like Hubble) can only observe things\ncontinuously for ~45 minutes at a time, which can be a serious\nlimitation.\n\n\nI sure as hell does if the 'point of light' is half a degree in extent\nand as bright as the moon. Have you ever noticed how much brighter the\nnight sky is on a moonlit night?\n\n\n\nExisting satellites *are* points of light, but an advertising sign that\nappeared as a point would be useless, so I rather think these will\nappear larger than a 'typical' satellite. Also, satellite tracks *are*\nruining lots of plates in the current Palomar Sky Survey.\n\nWhat deparment are you in anyway, Philosophy? You obviously are not\nqualified to speak about astronomy...", "That is an idea.. The most efficient moon habitat.. \n\nalso the idea of how to get the people off the moon once the prize was won..\n\nAlso the idea of how to rescue someone who is \"dying\" on the moon.\n\nMaybe have a area where they can all \"see\" each other, and can help each other\nif something happens.. \n\nI liek the idea of one prize for the first moon landing and return, by a\nnon-governmental body..\n\nAlso the idea of then having a moon habitat race.. \n\nI know we need to do somthing to get people involved..\n\nEccentric millionaire/billionaire would be nice.. We see how old Ross feels\nabout it.. After all it would be a great promotional thing and a way to show he\ndoes care about commericalization and the people.. Will try to broach the\nsubject to him.. \n\nMoonbase on the cheap is a good idea.. NASA and friends seem to take to much\ntime and give us to expensive stuff that of late does not work (hubble and\nsuch). Basically what is the difference between a $1mil peice of junk and a\nmulti $1mil piece of junk.. I know junk..", "\nOr perhaps even weird?\n\n\nHmmm, you might want to read this group more carefully; there's been a good \namount of discussion of the proposed Pluto Fast Flyby (PFF) mission that is \nspecifically designed to be small and cheap.", "What is the deal with life on Mars? I save the \"face\" and heard \nassociated theories. (which sound thin to me)\n\nAre we going back to Mars to look at this face agian?\nDoes anyone buy all the life theories?\n", "Many of you at this point have seen a copy of the \nLunar Resources Data Purchase Act by now. This bill, also known as the Back to \nthe Moon bill, would authorize the U.S. \ngovernment to purchase lunar science data from private \nand non-profit vendors, selected on the basis of competitive bidding, with an \naggregate cap on bid awards of $65 million. \n If you have a copy of the bill, and can't or don't want to go through \nall of the legalese contained in all Federal legislation,don't both - you have \na free resource to evaluate the bill for you. Your local congressional office, \nlisted in the phone book,is staffed by people who can forward a copy of the\nbill to legal experts. Simply ask them to do so, and to consider supporting\nthe Lunar Resources Data Purchase Act. \n If you do get feedback, negative or positive, from your congressional \noffice, please forward it to: David Anderman\n3136 E. Yorba Linda Blvd., Apt G-14, Fullerton, CA 92631,\nor via E-Mail to: David.Anderman@ofa123.fidonet.org. \n Another resource is your local chapter of the National Space Society. \nMembers of the chapter will be happy to work with you to evaluate and support \nthe Back to the Moon bill. For the address and telephone number of the nearest \nchapter to you, please send E-mail, or check the latest issue of Ad Astra, in \na library near you.\n Finally, if you have requested, and not received, information about\nthe Back to the Moon bill, please re-send your request. The database for the\nbill was recently corrupted, and some information was lost. The authors of the \nbill thank you for your patience.\n", "\nDid anyone notice any helicopters equipped with thermal imaging \nequipment? They usually manifest themselves in a turret in the front\nof the helo, or a sphere on top of the rotor with optical elements.", "\nJust to throw it out there: The mass of the telescope is 11,600 kg \n(25,500 lb). I do not know what Space lab weighs, but I believe it is\nless. Can anyone verify??\n\nAlso, remember that weight was not the only concern, as many others have \nnoted, just one possible concern. I was responding to a statement that\nif you can boost it, why can't you land it. Those are too different\nproblems.\n\nROB\n-- \n===========================================================================\n===========================================================================\n\nDisclaimer-type-thingie>>>>> These opinions are mine! Unless of course \n\tthey fall under the standard intellectual property guidelines. \n\tBut with my intellect, I doubt it. Besides, if it was useful\n\tintellectual property, do you think I would type it in here?", "\n\n\n\n\nThe HGA isn't all that reflective in the wavelengths that might \"cook the\nfocal elements\", nor is its figure good on those scales--the problem is\nthat the antenna _itself_ could not be exposed to Venus-level sunlight,\nlest like Icarus' wings it melt. (I think it was glues and such, as well\nas electronics, that they were worried about.) Thus it had to remain\nfurled and the axis _always_ pointed near the sun, so that the small\nsunshade at the tip of the antenna mast would shadow the folded HGA.\n(A larger sunshade beneath the antenna shielded the spacecraft bus.)", "If by chance you answered my request for NEO Asteroids in the last two days\nplease send them to me directly. I by mistake deleted instead of read\nall the space-request messages .\n\nThanks and sorry.\n\nHarry G. Osoff\nScience & Technology Editor\nAccess News Network", "\n\nHmmmm.... The prefix \"peri-\" is Greek, not Latin, so it's usually used\nwith the Greek form of the name of the body being orbited. (That's why\nit's \"perihelion\" rather than \"perisol\", \"perigee\" rather than \"periterr\",\nand \"pericynthion\" rather than \"perilune\".) So for Jupiter I'd expect it\nto be something like \"perizeon\".) :^)", "Press Release No.19-93\nParis, 22 April 1993\n\nUsers of ESA's Olympus satellite report on the outcome of\ntheir experiments\n\n\"Today Europe's space telecommunications sector would not\nbe blossoming as it now does, had OLYMPUS not provided\na testbed for the technologies and services of the 1990s\". This\nsummarises the general conclusions of 135 speakers and 300\nparticipants at the Conference on Olympus Utilisation held in\nSeville on 20-22-April 1993. The conference was organised by\nthe European Space Agency (ESA) and the Spanish Centre for\nthe Development of Industrial Technology (CDTI).\n\nOLYMPUS has been particularly useful :\n- in bringing satellite telecommunications to thousands of\n new users, thanks to satellite terminals with very small\n antennas (VSATs). OLYMPUS experiments have tested\n data transmission, videoconferencing, business television,\n distance teaching and rural telephony, to give but a few\n examples.\n\n- in opening the door to new telecommunications services\n which could not be accommodated on the crowded lower-\n frequency bands; OLYMPUS was the first satellite over\n Europe to offer capacity in the 20/30 GHz band.\n\n- in establishing two-way data relay links OLYMPUS\n received for the first time in Europe, over several months,\n high-volume data from a low-Earth orbiting spacecraft and\n then distributed it to various centres in Europe.\n\nWhen OLYMPUS was launched on 12 July 1989 it was the\nworld's largest telecommunications satellite; and no other\nsatellite has yet equalled its versatility in combining four\ndifferent payloads in a wide variety of frequency bands.\n\nOLYMPUS users range from individual experimenters to some\nof the world's largest businesses. Access to the satellite is\ngiven in order to test new telecommunications techniques or\nservices; over the past four years some 200 companies and\norganisations made use of this opportunity, as well as over\n100 members of the EUROSTEP distance-learning\norganisation.\n\n\n\nAs the new technologies and services tested by these\nOLYMPUS users enter the commercial market, they then\nmake use of operational satellites such as those of\nEUTELSAT.", "\nThis is not quite right. The differential arrival time techinique\nrequires interplanetary baselines to get good positions. The\ndifferential arrival at the eight detectors differ by 10's of nanoseconds.\nThis is smaller than BATSE's microsecond timing capabilities.\nBATSE, Ulysses, and Mars Obsverver are used for this technique.\n\nEach BATSE detector does not have a full sky field of view.\nThe sensitivity of each detector decreases with increasing \nangle of incidence. The burst position on the sky is determined by\ncomparing the count rates in different detectors.", "George William Herbert sez:\n\n\nI like your optimism, George. I don't know doots about raising that kind\nof dough, but if you need people to split the work and the $700M, you just\ngive me a ring :-) Living alone for a year on the moon sounds horrid, but\nI'd even try that, if I got a bigger cut. :-)\n\n-Tommy Mac\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTom McWilliams 517-355-2178 wk \\\\ As the radius of vision increases,\n18084tm@ibm.cl.msu.edu 336-9591 hm \\\\ the circumference of mystery grows.", "\n\n\n\n\n\nWell, I guess I'm left wondering just who all the 'light fascists'\nthink *they* are. Yes, I understand the issues. I don't even\nparticularly care for the idea. But am I the only one that finds the\nsort of overreaction above just a *little* questionable? You must\nfind things like the Moon *really* obnoxious in their pollution.\n\nA few questions for those frothing at the mouth to ask themselves:\n\n\t1) How long is this thing supposed to stay up? Sounds like it\nwould have a *huge* drag area, not a lot of mass, and be in a fairly\nlow orbit.\n\n\t2) Just what orbital parameters are we talking about here?\nWhat real impact are we talking about, really? How many optical\nastronomers are *really* going to be impacted?\n\n\t3) Which is more important; adding a few extra days of\n'seeing' for (very few) optical astronomers or getting the data the\nsensors are supposed to return along with the data for large\ninflatables (and the potential there for an inflatable space station)?\nThe choice would seem to be one or the other, since the advertising is\nbeing used to help fund this thing.\n\n\t4) If your answer to 3) above was \"the astronomers\", then feel\nfree to come up with some other way to fund the (to my mind) more\nimportant research data that would be gained by this WITHOUT SPENDING\nANY MORE OF MY MONEY TO DO IT. In other words, put up or shut up.\n\n\nProbably so. I'm just not sure we agree about who the 'stupid' are. \n\n\nYeah, me too.\n\n-- \n\"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live\n in the real world.\" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden", "\n\n\nYou can do a whole hell of a lot better than 2 or 3 degrees with\nthe differential timing measurements from the interplanetary network.\nIgnore the directional information from BATSE; just look at the time\nof arrival. With three detectors properly arranged, one can often\nget positions down to ~arc minutes.\n\nBTW, about Oort cloud sources: shouldn't this be testable in the\nfairly near future? Some of the GRBs have very short rise times (< 1\nms). We could detect the curvature of the burst wavefront out to a\ndistance of on the order of b^2/(t c) where b is the detector spacing\nand t the time resolution. For t = 1 ms and b = 2 AU, this is on the\norder of 16 light years. I understand statistics will reduce this\nnumber considerably, as would geometry if the burst is coming from the\nwrong direction.", "\n\n\n\n > > What evidence indicates that Gamma Ray bursters are very far away?\n\n > >Given the enormous power, i was just wondering, what if they are\n > >quantum black holes or something like that fairly close by?\n\n > >Why would they have to be at galactic ranges? \n\n . . . David gives good explaination of the deductions from the isotropic,\n 'edged' distribution, to whit, they are either part of the Universe or\n part of the Oort cloud.\n\n Why couldn't they be Earth centred, with the edge occuring at the edge\n of the gravisphere? I know there isn't any mechanism for them, but there\n isn't a mechanism for the others either.\n\nWhat on Earth is the \"gravisphere\"?\nAnyway, before it's decay the Pioneer Venus Orbiter\nhad a gamma ray detector, as does Ulysses, they \ndetect the brightest bursts that the Earth orbit detectors\ndo, so the bursts are at least at Oort cloud distances.\nIn principle four detectors spaced out by a few AU would\nsee parallax if the bursts are of solar system origin.\n\n_The_ problem with Oort cloud sources is that absolutely\nno plausible mechanism has been proposed. It would have\nto involve new physics as far as I can tell. Closest to\n\"conventional\" Oort sources is a model of B-field pinching\nby comets, it's got too many holes in it to count, but at\nleast it was a good try...", "\nThe CU people have been, and continue to be big ozone scientists. So \nthis is consistent. It is also consistent with the new \"Comercial \napplications\" that NASA and Clinton are pushing so hard. \n\nDid anyone catch the rocket that was launched with a movie advert \nall over it? I think the rocket people got alot of $$ for painting \nup the sides with the movie stuff. What about the Coke/Pepsi thing \na few years back? NASA has been trying to find ways to get other \npeople into the space funding business for some time. Frankly, I've \nthought about trying it too. When the funding gets tight, only the \ninnovative get funded. One of the things NASA is big on is co-funding. \nIf a PI can show co-funding for any proposal, that proposal has a SIGNIFICANTLY\nhigher probability of being funded than a proposal with more merit but no \nco-funding. Once again, money talks!\n\n", "\n\nWho says there is no mineral rights to be given? Who says? The UN or the US\nGovernment? \nMajor question is if you decide to mine the moon or Mars, who will stop you?\nThe UN can't other than legal tom foolerie.. Can the truly inforce it?\n\nIf you go to the moon as declare that you are now a soverign nation, who will\nstop you from doing it. Maybe not acknowledge you? \n\nWhy can't a small company or corp or organization go an explore the great\nbeyond of space? what right does earth have to say what is legal and what is\nnot.. Maybe I am a few years ahead on this.. It is liek the old Catholic Church \nstating which was Portugals and what was Spains, and along came the Reformation\nand made it all null and void.. \n\nWhat can happen is to find a nation which is acknowledged, and offer your\nservices as a space miner and then go mine the asteroids/mars/moon or what\never.. As long as yur sponsor does not get in trouble..\nBasically find a country who wants to go into space, but can't for soem reason\nor another, but who will give you a \"home\".. Such as Saudia Arabia or\nwhatever..\nThere are nations in the World who are not part of the UN, got to them and\noffer your services and such.. I know that sound crazy, but. is it..\nAlso once you have the means to mine the moon (or whatever) then just do it.\nThe UN if done right can be made to be so busy with something else, they will\nnot care.. \nIf your worried about the US, do the same thing..\n\nWhy be limited by the short sighted people of earth.. After all they have many\nother things to worry about that if someone is mining the Moon or MArs or what\never..\nBasically what I am saying is where is that drive of yeasteryears to go a\nlittle bit farther out, to do jus ta little bit more, and to tell the crown to\npiss off.. If my ancestors thought the way many today think, Id have been born\nin Central Europe just north of the Black Sea..\n\nI just read a good book, \"Tower of the Gods\" Interesting..", "From article <1993May14.023220.1@vax1.tcd.ie>, by apryan@vax1.tcd.ie:\n\nHmmm... Atlantis left Eureca in a 28 degree orbit. Retrieving it is\ngoing to be *REALLY* fun if they fly to 57 degrees. Torque that \nCanadarm! :-)", "Reported yesterday in the Washington Post (Kathy Sawyer, writer):\n\nThe article plays down the Russian role in US space.\n\nGibbons (science advisor to Clinton) sent Goldin a letter indicating\nNASA should not limit redesign options to those compatible with Mir\norbit.\n\nThe White House thinks expectations for Russian cooperation have been\nraised too high.\n\nThe article reports that some think the spending and schedule limits\nfor space station are so stringent that the redesign is nearly\nimpossible. That's why some think Goldin has begun looking at \nRussian hardware.\n\nGoldin states NASA will present all options to the administration \nwhich will then have decision making power.\n\nGoldin and the White House have totally ruled out using Energia to\nboost the station.", "I saw this subject and all I could think of was a parade at Wrigley Field\nin Chicago.\n\nOr maybe it's just me. \n\n:)\n\n\n-- \nMarc Cooper - Graphics Programmer - Sverdrup Tech.| \"As a child, I WAS an \nfsmarc@lerc.nasa.gov | imaginary playmate.\"\nNASA Lewis Research Center MS 5-11 | \n21000 Brookpark Dr. | Tom Robbins\nCleveland, OH 44135 (216) 433-8898 | Even Cowgirls Get the Blues", "\nRIght now the HST sevicing mission is listed as 11 days. before\nit was listed as 9 days. they just kicked up the number of spacewalks\nto 5, after simulations indicated that it was not do-able in 4. \n\nAfter all the space walking, they are going to re-boost the HST's\norbit. I think right now it's sitting at 180 miles up,\nthey would like 220. I don't know the exact orbit numbers.\nI know when HST was first flown, it was placed in the Highest\npossible Shuttle orbit. \n\nNow the shuttle can cary a thing called the EDO pallet, or extended\nduration orbiter pallet. It's mostly LOX/LH for the fuel cells\nand RCS gear, plus more O2 and canisters for the life support\nre-breathers. maybe more nitrogen too.\n\nTHe limit on space-walking is a function of suit supplies (MASS)\nand Orbiter Duration. \n\nIn order to perform the re-boost of the HST, the OMS engines\nwill be fired for a long period. Now the shuttle is a heavy\nthing. THe HST isn't light either. THe amount of OMS fuel\nneeded to fly both up is substantial. a small booster\ncarried up and used to boost HST on it's own will weigh significantly\nless then the OMS fuel required to Boost both HST and SHUttle,\nfor a given orbital change. \n\nFrom what i understand, the mass margins on the HST missions are\ntight enough they can't even carry extra Suits or MMU's.\n\nNow if they used a small tug, I would bet, just a wild guess,\nthat the savings on amss margin would allow carrying the\nEDO pallet, extra suits, more consumables, parts for the\nflaky FGS sensor, parts for the balky solar electronics,\n\nand still enough for a double magnum of champagne.\n\nor the HST could even get placed into some sort of medium orbit.\nThe reason they want a high orbit, is less antenna pointing,\nand longer drag life.\n\n\na\nWhatever it is, the problem in the tilt array is a big constraint\non HST ops.", "Apologies if this gets posted twice, but I don't think the first one\nmade it.\n--------------------------------------------------------------------\n FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact: OASIS (310) 364-2290\n\n 15 April 1993 Los Angeles, CA\n\n LOCAL NATIONAL SPACE SOCIETY CHAPTERS SPONSOR TALK BY L.A.\n ADVOCATE OF LUNAR POWER SYSTEM AS ENERGY SOURCE FOR THE WORLD\n\n On April 21, the OASIS and Ventura County chapters of the National \nSpace Society will sponsor a talk by Lunar Power System (LPS) co-\ninventor and vice-president of the LPS Coalition, Dr. Robert D.\nWaldron. It will be held at 7:30 p.m. at the Rockwell Science\nCenter in Thousand Oaks, CA.\n\n Dr. Waldron is currently a Technical Specialist in Space\nMaterials Processing with the Space Systems Division of Rockwell\nInternational in Downey, California. He is a recognized world\nauthority on lunar materials refinement. He has written or\ncoauthored more than 15 articles or reports on nonterrestrial\nmaterials processing or utilization. Along with Dr. David\nCriswell, Waldron invented the lunar/solar power system concept.\n\n Momentum is building for a coalition of entrepreneurs, legal\nexperts, and Soviet and U.S. scientists and engineers to build\nthe Lunar Power System, a pollution-free, energy source with a\npotential to power the globe.\n\n For the past three years members of the coalition, nearly half\nfrom California, have rejuvenated the commercial and scientific\nconcept of a solar power system based on the Moon.\n\n The LPS concept entails collecting solar energy on the lunar\nsurface and beaming the power to Earth as microwaves transmitted\nthrough orbiting antennae. A mature LPS offers an enormous\nsource of clean, sustainable power to meet the Earth's ever\nincreasing demand using proven, basic technology.\n\n OASIS (Organization for the Advancement of Space\nIndustrialization) is the Greater Los Angeles chapter of the\nNational Space Society, which is an international non-profit\norganization that promotes development of the space frontier.\nThe Ventura County chapter is based in Oxnard, CA.\n\n WHERE: Rockwell Science Center Auditorium, 1049 Camino\n Dos Rios, Thousand Oaks, CA.", "There has been something bothering me while watching\nNASA Select for a while. Well, I should'nt say\nbothering, maybe wondering would be better. When\nthey are going to launch they say (sorry but I forget\nexactly who is saying what, OTC to PLT I think)\n\"Clear caution & warning memory. Verify no unexpected\nerrors. ...\". I am wondering what an \"expected error\" might\nbe. Sorry if this is a really dumb question, but\ninquiring minds just gotta know............", "\n\nI'm worried by the concern about it though, for a number of reasons\nthat have nothing to do with Space Advertising (which for a number of\nreasons is probably doomed to fail on financial grounds).\n\n(And I've been reading and (and writing) this thread since way\nback when it was only on sci.space).\n\nFor starters, I don't think the piece of light-pollution apparatus\nwould be as bright as the full moon. _That_ seems to me to be a bit\nof propaganda on the part of opponents, or wishful thinking on the\npart of proponents.\n\nSecond, this charge of ruining the night sky permanently has been\nlevelled against other projects, that either 1) don't increace light\npollution significantly, or 2) increace light pollution only over the\ntarget area.\n\nYou may or may not recognize #1 as being Solar Power Sattelites.\nI think it was Josh Hopkins who actually did the math, showing that\nSPS's weren't that bright after all, ending some two months of frenzied\nopposition on the part of dark-sky activists and various other types.\n\n#2 is mainly projects like the orbiting mirror the CIS tested\nrecently. While slightly more worrisome, I'd like to point out that\nany significant scattering of light outside the target area for one of\nthese mirrors would be wasted as far as the project would be\nconcerned, and something any project like that would work against\nanyway. And given some of the likely targets, I don't think there's\ngoing to be much of an outcry from the inhabitants. There is too much\ndark sky in the northern CIS during the winter, and I doubt you'll find\nmany activists in Murmansk demanding the \"natural\" sky back. If anything,\nhe'll probably be inside, stripped buck naked in front of the UV lamp,\nmaking sure he'll get enough vitamin D for the \"day.\"\n\nThe mirror experiments aren't something they're doing for crass\nadvertising. They think that if they can build one, it'll be one of\nthose things people in the affected areas will think they couldn't\nhave lived without before. And I doubt anyone's going to really be\nable to convince them to stop.\n\n", "\n Announce that a reward of $1 billion would go to the first corporation \n who successfully keeps at least 1 person alive on the moon for a\n year. \n\nAnd with $1B on offer, the problem of \"keeping them alive\" is highly\nlikely to involve more than just the lunar environment! \n\n\"Oh Dear, my freighter just landed on the roof of ACME's base and they\nall died. How sad. Gosh, that leaves us as the oldest residents.\"\n\n\"Quick Boss, the slime from YoyoDyne are back, and this time they've\ngot a tank! Man the guns!\"\n\nOne could imagine all sorts of technologies being developed in that\nsort of environment.....\n\nGreg.\n\n(I'm kidding, BTW, although the problem of winner-takes-all prizes is\nthat it encourages all sorts of undesirable behaviour - witness\nmilitary procurement programs. And $1b is probably far too small a\nreward to encourage what would be a very expensive and high risk\nproposition.)\n\n", "\nMy apologies if this is a re-post - I submitted it on Friday, but \ngot a message that my post might not have gone out. Considering \nthe confusing spitting contest over 'rights', (there are TOO \ninalienable rights damn it! The majority can be just as destructive \nof liberty as a despot), I suspect that my post did not get out \nof my site. (I ain't saying that dark skies are included in these \nrights, although we can only preserve any rights by exercising them.) \n\n\n\nAnyway, here are my thoughts on this: \n\n\nI'd like to add that some of the \"protests\" do not come from a strictly \npractical consideration of what pollution levels are acceptable for \nresearch activities by professional astronomers. Some of what I \nwould complain about is rooted in aesthetics. Many readers may \nnever have known a time where the heavens were pristine - sacred - \nunsullied by the actions of humans. The space between the stars \nas profoundly black as an abyss can be. With full horizons and \na pure sky one could look out upon half of all creation at a time \n- none of which had any connection with the petty matters of man. \nAny lights were supplied solely by nature; uncorruptable by men. \nWhole religions were based on mortal man somehow getting up there \nand becoming immortal as the stars, whether by apotheosis or a belief \nin an afterlife. \n\nThe Space Age changed all that. The effect of the first Sputniks \nand Echo, etc. on this view could only happen once. To see a light \ncrossing the night sky and know it was put there by us puny people \nis still impressive and the sense of size one gets by assimilating \nthe scales involved is also awesome - even if the few hundreds or \nthousands of miles involved is still dwarfed by the rest of the universe. \nBut there is still a hunger for the pure beauty of a virgin sky. \n\nYes, I know aircraft are almost always in sight. I have to live \nin a very populated area (6 miles from an international airport \ncurrently) where light pollution on the ground is ghastly. The \nimpact of humans is so extreme here - virtually no place exists \nthat has not been shaped, sculpted, modified, trashed or whipped \ninto shape by the hands of man. In some places the only life \nforms larger than bacteria are humans, cockroaches, and squirrels \n(or rats). I visited some friends up in the Appalacian mountains \none weekend, \"getting away from it all\" (paved roads, indoor plumbing, \nmalls, ...) and it felt good for a while - then I quickly noticed \nthe hollow was directly under the main flight path into Dulles - 60-80 \nmiles to the east. (Their 'security light' didn't help matters \nmuch either.) But I've heard the artic wilderness gets lots of \nhigh air traffic. So I know the skies are rarely perfect. \n\nBut there is still this desire to see a place that man hasn't \nfouled in some way. (I mean they've been TRYING this forever - \nlike, concerning Tesla's idea to banish night, - wow!) I don't watch \ncommercial television, but I can imagine just how disgusting beer, \ntruck, or hemmorrhoid ointment advertisements would be if seen up so high. \nIf ya' gotta make a buck on it (displaying products in heaven), at \nleast consider the reactions from those for whom the sky is a last\nbeautiful refuge from the baseness of modern life. \n\nTo be open about this though, I have here my listing of the passage \nof HST in the evening sky for this weekend - tonight Friday at \n8:25 p.m. EDT it will reach an altitude of 20.1 degrees on the \nlocal meridian from Baltimore vicinity. I'll be trying to see it \nif I can - it _is_ my mealticket after all. So I suppose I could \nbe called an elitist for supporting this intrusion on the night sky \nwhile complaining about billboards proposed by others. Be that \nas it may, I think my point about a desire for beauty is valid, \neven if it can't ever be perfectly achieved. \n\nRegards, \nWm. Hathaway \nBaltimore MD \n", "\n\n\tThere is no notion of heliocentric, or even galacticentric either.\n\n\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------", "\n\n\n\n\n\nWell, I agree. I hope others chime in with suggestions on specific\ntechnologies which could be applied towards the maintenance of an\nEarth like atmosphere on a long-duration spacecraft.\n\nTim et al:\nI think we should try looking at atmosphere first.\nThis seems to be the single most fundamental issue in keeping anyone alive.\nWe're all taught that when supporting a patient\nyou look for maintaining airway. So, in keeping with my trauma training\n(and keeping my emergency medicine professor happy), I suggest that\nwe look at the issues surrounding a regenerable atmospheric circuit.\n\nHowz that Tim?", "\nCorrection, and some more info: The Kaliningrad that Mr. Larrison\nwrites about is indeed near Moscow. I've read that it may also be known by\nthe name Podlipk, and is a short distance from Zvezdny Gorodok (Star \nCity) and the Cosmonaut Training Center there. I read that the Tsniimach\n(Central Scientific Research Institute of Machine Building, est. 1961) \nEnterprise was also responsible for creating the NKIK (Ground Command and \nMeasurement Complex) including the Kaliningrad Flight Control Center\nwhich has controlled all Soviet/Russian manned spaceflights since its\ncompletion in 1973. However, it appears to have been a part of the \nMinistry of General Machine Building which was not part of the military\n(Ministry of Defense) but would have been a part of the military-industrial\ncomplex. ", "\n\n\nOften Shuttle lifts satellites with upper stages. Yet we still consider it\npayload. Ten Saturn flights over about 4 years delivered to LEO roughly the\nsame as 50 shuttle flights over 10 years.\n\n\nThey where pretty much the same in terms of cost/pound. A resurected\nSaturn would cost only $2,000 per pound (if development costs are ignored)\nwhich is five times cheaper than Shuttle.\n\n Allen\n\n", "\n\nDennis, I have worked on or written proposals worth tens of millions\nof $$. Customers included government (including NASA), for profit and\nnon-profit companies. All expected a wrap (usually called a fee). Much\nof the work involved allocating and costing the work of subcontractors.\nThe subcontractors where universities, for-profits, non-profits, and\neven some of the NASA Centers for the Commercialization of Space. ALL\ncharged fees as part of the work. Down the street is one of the NASA\ncommercialization centers; they charge a fee.\n\nNow, I'm sure your a competent engineer Dennis, but you clearly lack\nexperience in several areas. Your posts show that you don't understand\nthe importance of integration in large projects. You also show a lack\nof understanding of costing efforts as shown by your belief that it\nis reasonable to charge incremental costs for everything. This isn't\na flame, jsut a statement.\n\nYour employer DOES charge a fee. You may not see it but you do.\n\n\n\nWell there you are Dennis. As I said, they simply include the fee in\ntheir overhead. Many seoparate the fee since the fee structure can\nchange depending on the customer.\n\n\nIntegration, Dennis, isn't overhead.\n\n\nDennis, Reston has been the only NASA agency working to reduce costs. When\nWP 02 was hemoraging out a billion $$, the centers you love so much where\ndoing their best to cover it up and ignore the problem. Reston was the\nonly place you would find people actually interested in solving the\nproblems and building a station.\n\n\nWhen you have a bit more experience Dennis, you will realize that\nintegration isn't overhead. It is the single most important part\nof a successful large scale effort.\n\n\nThe story you refer to said that some NASA people blamed it on\nCongress. Suprise suprise. The fact remains that it is the centers\nyou support so much who covered up the overheads and wouldn't address\nthe problems until the press published the story.\n\nAre you saying the Reston managers where wrong to get NASA to address\nthe overruns? You approve of what the centers did to cover up the overruns?\n\n\nYou should know Dennis that NASA doesn't include transport costs for\nresuply. That comes from the Shuttle budget. What they where saying\nis that operational costs could be cut in half plus transport.\n\n\nI do hope you can find the time to tell us just why it was wrong of\nReston to ask that the problems with WP 02 be addressed.\n\n Allen\n", "\n\nThey recycled a lot of models and theme music for UFO. Some of the\nconcepts even showed up in SPACE: 1999. \n\n", "\nSorry, my news reader doesn't want to reply.\n\n1) Ling, S.C. \"Fluxgate magetometer for Space Application\", IEEE Journal \nSpacecraft, Vol. 1, No. 2, March-April 1964, pp 175-180.\n\nOldish, but usable. Background information\n\n2) \"Fluxgate magnetometry\", Electronics world + Wireless world, September \n1991, pp. 726-732.\n\nGreat! Circuit diagrams etc for building an electronuc compass", "\n Newsgroups: sci.med\n Path: news.larc.nasa.gov!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!emory!athena!aisun3.ai.uga.edu!mcovingt\n From: mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington)\n Sender: usenet@athena.cs.uga.edu\n Nntp-Posting-Host: aisun3.ai.uga.edu\n Organization: AI Programs, University of Georgia, Athens\n References: <116305@bu.edu> \n Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 03:41:24 GMT\n Lines: 27\n\n >>\n >>Many of these cereals are corn-based. After your post I looked in the\n >>literature and located two articles that implicated corn (contains\n >>tryptophan) and seizures. The idea is that corn in the diet might\n >>potentiate an already existing or latent seizure disorder, not cause it.\n >>Check to see if the two Kellog cereals are corn based. I'd be interested.\n >\n >Years ago when I was an intern, an obese young woman was brought into\n >the ER comatose after having been reported to have grand mal seizures\n >why attending a \"corn festival\". We pumped her stomach and obtained\n >what seemed like a couple of liters of corn, much of it intact kernals. \n >After a few hours she woke up and was fine. I was tempted to sign her out as\n >\"acute corn intoxication.\"\n >----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n >Gordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\n\n How about contaminants on the corn, e.g. aflatoxin???\n\n\n\n -- \n :- Michael A. Covington, Associate Research Scientist : *****\n :- Artificial Intelligence Programs mcovingt@ai.uga.edu : *********\n :- The University of Georgia phone 706 542-0358 : * * *\n :- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** ** <><\n\nWhat is aflatoxin?\n\nSharon", "The AIAA San Gabriel Valley Section is sponsoring the following lecture\non Mars exploration at the Jet Propulsion Lab. Admission is free and open to\nthe public.\n\n The Next Frontier:\n The Challenge of Mars Exploration\n\n DATE: May 6, 1993\n TIME: 6:00PM - 8:30 PM\n LOCATION: Von Karman Auditorium\n Jet Propulsion Lab\n 4800 Oak Grove Drive\n Pasadena, California\n\n The following five speakers will be featured:\n\n A Science Fiction Perspective\n Tom McDonaugh\n Science Fiction Writer\n\n Mars Observer\n Dr. Arden Albee\n Project Scientist, Mars Observer - JPL\n\n Mars '94\n Dr. Arthur L. Lane\n Instrument Manager, Mars '94 - JPL\n\n Mars Environmental Survey (MESUR)\n Richard Cook\n Mission Designer - JPL\n\n Manned Mission to Mars\n Dr. Robert Zubrin\n Senior Engineer, Martin Marietta Astronautics", "Archive-name: space/controversy\nLast-modified: $Date: 93/04/01 14:39:06 $\n\nCONTROVERSIAL QUESTIONS\n\n These issues periodically come up with much argument and few facts being\n offered. The summaries below attempt to represent the position on which\n much of the net community has settled. Please DON'T bring them up again\n unless there's something truly new to be discussed. The net can't set\n public policy, that's what your representatives are for.\n\n\n WHAT HAPPENED TO THE SATURN V PLANS\n\n Despite a widespread belief to the contrary, the Saturn V blueprints\n have not been lost. They are kept at Marshall Space Flight Center on\n microfilm.\n\n The problem in re-creating the Saturn V is not finding the drawings, it\n is finding vendors who can supply mid-1960's vintage hardware (like\n guidance system components), and the fact that the launch pads and VAB\n have been converted to Space Shuttle use, so you have no place to launch\n from.\n\n By the time you redesign to accommodate available hardware and re-modify\n the launch pads, you may as well have started from scratch with a clean\n sheet design.\n\n\n WHY DATA FROM SPACE MISSIONS ISN'T IMMEDIATELY AVAILABLE\n\n Investigators associated with NASA missions are allowed exclusive access\n for one year after the data is obtained in order to give them an\n opportunity to analyze the data and publish results without being\n \"scooped\" by people uninvolved in the mission. However, NASA frequently\n releases examples (in non-digital form, e.g. photos) to the public early\n in a mission.\n\n\n RISKS OF NUCLEAR (RTG) POWER SOURCES FOR SPACE PROBES\n\n There has been extensive discussion on this topic sparked by attempts to\n block the Galileo and Ulysses launches on grounds of the plutonium\n thermal sources being dangerous. Numerous studies claim that even in\n worst-case scenarios (shuttle explosion during launch, or accidental\n reentry at interplanetary velocities), the risks are extremely small.\n Two interesting data points are (1) The May 1968 loss of two SNAP 19B2\n RTGs, which landed intact in the Pacific Ocean after a Nimbus B weather\n satellite failed to reach orbit. The fuel was recovered after 5 months\n with no release of plutonium. (2) In April 1970, the Apollo 13 lunar\n module reentered the atmosphere and its SNAP 27 RTG heat source, which\n was jettisoned, fell intact into the 20,000 feet deep Tonga Trench in\n the Pacific Ocean. The corrosion resistant materials of the RTG are\n expected to prevent release of the fuel for a period of time equal to 10\n half-lives of the Pu-238 fuel or about 870 years [DOE 1980].\n\n To make your own informed judgement, some references you may wish to\n pursue are:\n\n A good review of the technical facts and issues is given by Daniel\n Salisbury in \"Radiation Risk and Planetary Exploration-- The RTG\n Controversy,\" *Planetary Report*, May-June 1987, pages 3-7. Another good\n article, which also reviews the events preceding Galileo's launch,\n \"Showdown at Pad 39-B,\" by Robert G. Nichols, appeared in the November\n 1989 issue of *Ad Astra*. (Both magazines are published by pro-space\n organizations, the Planetary Society and the National Space Society\n respectively.)\n\n Gordon L Chipman, Jr., \"Advanced Space Nuclear Systems\" (AAS 82-261), in\n *Developing the Space Frontier*, edited by Albert Naumann and Grover\n Alexander, Univelt, 1983, p. 193-213.\n\n \"Hazards from Plutonium Toxicity\", by Bernard L. Cohen, Health Physics,\n Vol 32 (may) 1977, page 359-379.\n\n NUS Corporation, Safety Status Report for the Ulysses Mission: Risk\n Analysis (Book 1). Document number is NUS 5235; there is no GPO #;\n published Jan 31, 1990.\n\n NASA Office of Space Science and Applications, *Final Environmental\n Impact Statement for the Ulysses Mission (Tier 2)*, (no serial number or\n GPO number, but probably available from NTIS or NASA) June 1990.\n\n [DOE 1980] U.S. Department of Energy, *Transuranic Elements in the\n Environment*, Wayne C. Hanson, editor; DOE Document No. DOE/TIC-22800;\n Government Printing Office, Washington, D.C., April 1980.)\n\n\n IMPACT OF THE SPACE SHUTTLE ON THE OZONE LAYER\n\n From time to time, claims are made that chemicals released from\n the Space Shuttle's Solid Rocket Boosters (SRBs) are responsible\n for a significant amount of damage to the ozone layer. Studies\n indicate that they in reality have only a minute impact, both in\n absolute terms and relative to other chemical sources. The\n remainder of this item is a response from the author of the quoted\n study, Charles Jackman.\n\n The atmospheric modelling study of the space shuttle effects on the\n stratosphere involved three independent theoretical groups, and was\n organized by Dr. Michael Prather, NASA/Goddard Institute for Space\n Studies. The three groups involved Michael Prather and Maria Garcia\n (NASA/GISS), Charlie Jackman and Anne Douglass (NASA/Goddard Space\n Flight Center), and Malcolm Ko and Dak Sze (Atmospheric and\n Environmental Research, Inc.). The effort was to look at the effects\n of the space shuttle and Titan rockets on the stratosphere.\n\n The following are the estimated sources of stratospheric chlorine:\n\n Industrial sources: 300,000,000 kilograms/year\n\t Natural sources: 75,000,000 kilograms/year\n\t Shuttle sources:\t 725,000 kilograms/year\n\n The shuttle source assumes 9 space shuttles and 6 Titan rockets are\n launched yearly. Thus the launches would add less than 0.25% to the\n total stratospheric chlorine sources.\n\n The effect on ozone is minimal: global yearly average total ozone would\n be decreased by 0.0065%. This is much less than total ozone variability\n associated with volcanic activity and solar flares.\n\n The influence of human-made chlorine products on ozone is computed\n by atmospheric model calculations to be a 1% decrease in globally\n averaged ozone between 1980 and 1990. The influence of the space shuttle and\n Titan rockets on the stratosphere is negligible. The launch\n schedule of the Space Shuttle and Titan rockets would need to be\n increased by over a factor of a hundred in order to have about\n the same effect on ozone as our increases in industrial halocarbons\n do at the present time.\n\n Theoretical results of this study have been published in _The Space\n Shuttle's Impact on the Stratosphere_, MJ Prather, MM Garcia, AR\n Douglass, CH Jackman, M.K.W. Ko and N.D. Sze, Journal of Geophysical\n Research, 95, 18583-18590, 1990.\n\n Charles Jackman, Atmospheric Chemistry and Dynamics Branch,\n Code 916, NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center,\n Greenbelt, MD 20771\n\n Also see _Chemical Rockets and the Environment_, A McDonald, R Bennett,\n J Hinshaw, and M Barnes, Aerospace America, May 1991.\n\n\n HOW LONG CAN A HUMAN LIVE UNPROTECTED IN SPACE\n\n If you *don't* try to hold your breath, exposure to space for half a\n minute or so is unlikely to produce permanent injury. Holding your\n breath is likely to damage your lungs, something scuba divers have to\n watch out for when ascending, and you'll have eardrum trouble if your\n Eustachian tubes are badly plugged up, but theory predicts -- and animal\n experiments confirm -- that otherwise, exposure to vacuum causes no\n immediate injury. You do not explode. Your blood does not boil. You do\n not freeze. You do not instantly lose consciousness.\n\n Various minor problems (sunburn, possibly \"the bends\", certainly some\n [mild, reversible, painless] swelling of skin and underlying tissue)\n start after ten seconds or so. At some point you lose consciousness from\n lack of oxygen. Injuries accumulate. After perhaps one or two minutes,\n you're dying. The limits are not really known.\n\n References:\n\n _The Effect on the Chimpanzee of Rapid Decompression to a Near Vacuum_,\n Alfred G. Koestler ed., NASA CR-329 (Nov 1965).\n\n _Experimental Animal Decompression to a Near Vacuum Environment_, R.W.\n Bancroft, J.E. Dunn, eds, Report SAM-TR-65-48 (June 1965), USAF School\n of Aerospace Medicine, Brooks AFB, Texas.\n\n\n HOW THE CHALLENGER ASTRONAUTS DIED\n\n The Challenger shuttle launch was not destroyed in an explosion. This is\n a well-documented fact; see the Rogers Commission report, for example.\n What looked like an explosion was fuel burning after the external tank\n came apart. The forces on the crew cabin were not sufficient to kill the\n astronauts, never mind destroy their bodies, according to the Kerwin\n team's medical/forensic report.\n\n The astronauts were killed when the more-or-less intact cabin hit the\n water at circa 200MPH, and their bodies then spent several weeks\n underwater. Their remains were recovered, and after the Kerwin team\n examined them, they were sent off to be buried.\n\n\n USING THE SHUTTLE BEYOND LOW EARTH ORBIT\n\n You can't use the shuttle orbiter for missions beyond low Earth orbit\n because it can't get there. It is big and heavy and does not carry\n enough fuel, even if you fill part of the cargo bay with tanks.\n\n Furthermore, it is not particularly sensible to do so, because much of\n that weight is things like wings, which are totally useless except in\n the immediate vicinity of the Earth. The shuttle orbiter is highly\n specialized for travel between Earth's surface and low orbit. Taking it\n higher is enormously costly and wasteful. A much better approach would\n be to use shuttle subsystems to build a specialized high-orbit\n spacecraft.\n\n [Yet another concise answer by Henry Spencer.]\n\n\n THE \"FACE ON MARS\"\n\n There really is a big rock on Mars that looks remarkably like a humanoid\n face. It appears in two different frames of Viking Orbiter imagery:\n 35A72 (much more facelike in appearance, and the one more often\n published, with the Sun 10 degrees above western horizon) and 70A13\n (with the Sun 27 degrees from the west).\n\n Science writer Richard Hoagland has championed the idea that the Face is\n artificial, intended to resemble a human, and erected by an\n extraterrestrial civilization. Most other analysts concede that the\n resemblance is most likely accidental. Other Viking images show a\n smiley-faced crater and a lava flow resembling Kermit the Frog elsewhere\n on Mars. There exists a Mars Anomalies Research Society (sorry, don't\n know the address) to study the Face.\n\n The Mars Observer mission will carry an extremely high-resolution\n camera, and better images of the formation will hopefully settle this\n question in a few years. In the meantime, speculation about the Face is\n best carried on in the altnet group alt.alien.visitors, not sci.space or\n sci.astro.\n\n V. DiPeitro and G. Molenaar, *Unusual Martian Surface Features*, Mars\n Research, P.O. Box 284, Glen Dale, Maryland, USA, 1982. $18 by mail.\n\n R.R. Pozos, *The Face of Mars*, Chicago Review Press, 1986. [Account of\n an interdisciplinary speculative conference Hoagland organized to\n investigate the Face]\n\n R.C. Hoagland, *The Monuments of Mars: A City on the Edge of Forever*,\n North Atlantic Books, Berkeley, California, USA, 1987. [Elaborate\n discussion of evidence and speculation that formations near the Face\n form a city]\n\n M.J. Carlotto, \"Digital Imagery Analysis of Unusual Martian Surface\n Features,\" *Applied Optics*, 27, pp. 1926-1933, 1987. [Extracts\n three-dimensional model for the Face from the 2-D images]\n\n M.J. Carlotto & M.C. Stein, \"A Method of Searching for Artificial\n Objects on Planetary Surfaces,\" *Journal of the British Interplanetary\n Society*, Vol. 43 no. 5 (May 1990), p.209-216. [Uses a fractal image\n analysis model to guess whether the Face is artificial]\n\n B. O'Leary, \"Analysis of Images of the `Face' on Mars and Possible\n Intelligent Origin,\" *JBIS*, Vol. 43 no. 5 (May 1990), p. 203-208.\n [Lights Carlotto's model from the two angles and shows it's consistent;\n shows that the Face doesn't look facelike if observed from the surface]\n", "From the \"JPL Universe\"\nApril 23, 1993\n\nCosmologist Stephen Hawking tours Lab", "=================================================================\nI am posting this for someone else. Please respond to the \naddress listed below. Please also excuse the duplication as this \nmessage has been crossposted. Thanks!\n=================================================================\n \n \n REQUEST FOR IDEAS FOR APPLICATIONS OF REMOTE SENSING DATABASES \n VIA THE INTERNET\n \nNASA is planning to expand the domain of users of its Earth and space science\ndata. This effort will:\n \n o Use the evolving infrastructure of the U.S. Global Change Research \n Program including the Mission To Planet Earth (MTPE) and the Earth \n Observing System Data and Information System (EOSDIS) Programs.\n \n o Use the Internet, particularly the High Performance Computing and \n Communications Program's NREN (National Research and Education \n Network), as a means of providing access to and distribution of \n science data and images and value added products.\n \n o Provide broad access to and utilization of remotely sensed images in \n cooperation with other agencies (especially NOAA, EPA, DOE, DEd, \n DOI/USGS, and USDA). \n \n o Support remote sensing image and data users and development \n communities. \n \nThe user and development communities to be included (but not limited to) as\npart of this effort are educators, commercial application developers (e.g., \ntelevision weather forecasters), librarians, publishers, agriculture \nspecialists, transportation, forestry, state and local government planners, and\naqua business.\n \nThis program will be initiated in 1994. Your assistance is requested to \nidentify potential applications of remote sensing images and data. We would \nlike your ideas for potential application areas to assist with development of\nthe Implementation Plan.\n \nPLEASE NOTE: THIS IS NOT A REQUEST FOR PROPOSALS. \n \nWe are seeking your ideas in these areas: \n \n (1) Potential commercial use of remote sensing data and images; \n \n (2) Potential noncommercial use of remote sensing data and images in \n education (especially levels K-12) and other noncommercial areas;\n \n (3) Types of on-line capabilities and protocols to make the data more \n accessible;\n \n (4) Additional points of contacts for ideas; and \n \n (5) Addresses and names from whom to request proposals. \n \nFor your convenience, a standard format for responses is included below. Feel\nfree to amend it as necessary. Either e-mail or fax your responses to us by\nMay 5, 1993.\n \nE-MAIL: On Internet \"rsdwg@orion.ossa.hq.nasa.gov\" ASCII - No binary \nattachments please\n \nFAX: Ernie Lucier, c/o RSDWG, NASA HQ, FAX 202-358-3098\n \nSurvey responses in the following formats may also be placed in the FTP \ndirectory ~ftp/pub/RSDWG on orion.nasa.gov. Please indicate the format. \nAcceptable formats are: Word for Windows 2.X, Macintosh Word 4.X and 5.X, and \nRTF. \n \n \n \n----------------------------RESPONSE FORMAT--------------------------\n \nREQUEST FOR IDEAS FOR APPLICATIONS OF REMOTE SENSING DATABASES VIA THE INTERNET\n \n(1) Potential commercial use of remote sensing data and images (if possible,\nidentify the relevant types of data or science products, user tools, and\nstandards).\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n(2) Uses of remote sensing data and images in education (especially levels\nK-12) and other noncommercial areas (if possible, identify the relevant types\nof data or science products, user tools, and standards). \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n(3) Types of on-line capabilities and protocols to make the data and images\nmore accessible (if possible, identify relevant types of formats, standards,\nand user tools)\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n(4) Additional suggested persons or organizations that may be resources for \nfurther ideas on applications areas. Please include: Name, Organization, \nAddress and Telephone Number.\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n(5) Organizations, mailing lists (electronic and paper), periodicals, etc. to\nwhom a solicitation for proposals should be sent when developed. Please \ninclude: Name, Organization, Address and Telephone Number.\n \n \n \n(6) We would benefit from knowing why users that know about NASA remote \nsensing data do not use the data. Is it because they do not have ties to NASA\ninvestigators, or high cost, lack of accessibility, incompatible data formats,\npoor area of interest coverage, inadequate spatial or spectral resolution, ...?\n \n \n \n ", "\nI would guess not. Dr. Neil Gehrels of CGRO is the son of Dr. Tom\nGehrels of the University of Arizona. Since he's long had research\ninterests in asteroids and other solar-system astronomy, Tom is the\none more likely to have discovered a comet (and thus had his name\nattached to it).\n\nTom Gehrels is a leader in the Spacewatch project, which has recently\nincreased mankind's discovery rate on near-Earth asteroids (they're\nfinding a couple every month). For much more on this interesting guy,\nread his autobiography, *On a Glassy Sea*.", "\n\nI guess it's kind of an aesthetics argument.\n\nI can see the solar arrays being expensive, and there could be\ncontingencies where you would be throwing away brand new\nsolar cells, but it seems so cheap compared toa shuttle\nmission, i wouldn't think they would bother.", "\nIt's not quite what you were asking, but a few years ago I helped some EE\nremote sensing people run some experiments on the microwave emmissivity of\nice; they used the sky for a background calibration source. They said that\nfrom Earth's surface the sky looks like a 60K blackbody.\n", "\nI don't think you're going to be able to see the differences from a sphere\nunless they are greatly exaggerated. Even the equatorial bulge is only\nabout 1 part in 300 -- you'd never notice a 1mm error in a 30cm globe --\nand the other deviations from spherical shape are much smaller.", "\nIt's public because it belongs to everybody. It's vandalism because many people -- power companies -- do maliciously waste light. If they can sell you\nor your city or your state an unshielded light that wastes 30 to 50 percent\nof its light, they make more _money_. Never mind that your money is wasted.\nNever mind that taxpaper's money is wasted. Never mind that the sky is ruined.\n\n\nBob Bunge", "There is an interesting opinion piece in the business section of today's\nLA Times (Thursday April 15, 1993, p. D1). I thought I'd post it to\nstir up some flame wars - I mean reasoned debate. Let me preface it by\nsaying that I largely agree that the \"Space Age\" in the romantic sense\nof several decades ago is over, and that projects like the space station\nmiss the point at this time. Reading, for example, \"What's New\" -\nthe weekly physics update we get here on the net - it's clear that the\nromance of the day lies in the ever more fine-grained manipulation of\nmatter: by which I include biotechnology, condensed matter physics (with\nits spinoffs in computer hardware and elsewhere), and the amazing things\npeople are doing with individual atoms these days. To a large extent, I\nthink, the romance some people still have with space is a matter of\nnostalgia. I feel sure that someday we - or more precisely, our \"mind\nchildren\" - will spread across space (unless we wipe ourselves out); but\nI think that *manned* space exploration is not what is exciting about\nwhat we can do *now*. \n\nAnyway, let me quote some of this article, but not all...\n\n\nSPACE AGE GLORY FADES FROM VIEW\n\nMicheal Schrage (writer, consultant, and research associate at MIT)\n\nAt 35, America's Space Age won't have to suffer through the angst of a\nmidlife crisis.\n\nThe reason is that the Space Age is already dead. The technologies no\nlonger define our times, and the public has grown weary of the multibillion\n-dollar celestial investments that yield minimal psychic or economic\nrewards. \n\nSpace exploration has mutated from a central focuse of America's science\nand technology debate into a peripheral issue. Speace is not a\nmeaningful part of the ongoing industrial competitiveness debate, our\ntechnology infrastructure discussions or even our defense conversion\npolicy. \n\nTo be sure, America should continue to invest in satellite technologies\nfor telecommunications and remote sensing - cheap deep-space probes\nwould be nice too - but the ideal of space as a meaningful driver of\nscientific and industrial innovation is now dead.\n\n.....\n\nBefore the change in administrations, it would have been foolish to\nwrite an obituary for the Space Age. The Bush White House aggressively\nsupported the space program and proposed spending well over $30 billion\nto build space station Freedom alone.\n\nEven as he proposed budget cuts in other science and technology domains,\nOffice of Management and Budget Director Richard Darman was an outspoken\npublic champion of big-ticket space expenditures. The reality that much\nof the civilian space program - from the shuttle to the Hubble telescope\nto the space station - was poorly conceived and unimpressively\nimplemented did not seem to matter much.\n\nPolitical inertia and a nostalgic sense of futurism - not a coherent\nvision or cost-effective sensibilities - determined multibillion-dollar\nspace budgets.\n\nIndeed, with few notable exceptions, such as Voyager, the post-Apollo\nera is the story of the gold-plated porkification of space exploration\nwith programs and promises that delivered less for more and more. \n\n......\n\nWhile the Clinton Administration has kept on the highly regarded Daniel\nGoldin as administrator of the National Aeronautics and Space\nAdministration, it seems clear that space exploration is not being\npositioned as either a symbolic or substantive centerpiece of America's\ntechnological prowess. The space station budget has - rightly - been\nslashed. Space is virtually ignored when the Administration champions\nits competitiveness agenda.\n\n......", "Forwarded from Neal Ausman, Galileo Mission Director\n\n GALILEO\n MISSION DIRECTOR STATUS REPORT\n POST-LAUNCH\n April 23 - 29, 1993\n\nSPACECRAFT\n\n1. On April 22 and 23, delta Differenced One-way Range (DOR) passes were\nperformed over DSS-14/63 (Goldstone/Madrid 70 meter antennas) and DSS-14/43\n(Goldstone/Canberra 70 meter antennas), respectively. Initial results \nindicate the delta DOR pass on April 22 was unsuccessful due to ground\nstation hardware problems but the one on April 23 was successfully performed.\n\n2. On April 23, a cruise science Memory Readout (MRO) was performed for the\nMagnetometer (MAG) instrument. Analysis indicates the data was received\nproperly.\n\n3. On April 23, the spare power relay contacts were commanded closed via the\nspacecraft stored sequence. These relays were commanded closed by the CDS\n(Command Data Subsystem) prior to launch and were again commanded closed to\npreclude the possibility at Jupiter of the PPS relays/wiring being a\nsource of internal electrostatic charge (IESD).\n\n4. On April 26, cruise science Memory Readouts (MRO) were performed for the\nExtreme Ultraviolet Spectrometer (EUV), Dust Detector (DDS), and Magnetometer\n(MAG) instruments. Preliminary analysis indicates the data was received\nproperly.\n\n5. During the period from April 26 to April 27, a navigation cycle was\nperformed. This navigation cycle provided near-continuous acquisition of\ntwo-way doppler and ranging data during three consecutive passes of the\nspacecraft over DSS-63, DSS-14, and DSS-43.\n\n6. On April 26, real-time commands were sent to test slew the Radio Relay\nAntenna (RRA) in preparation for the mini-sequence slew test on April 28.\nThe RRA was slewed from approximately 3.5 degrees from stow to approximately\n20.3 degrees. Preliminary analysis indicated the antenna slewed to about 18\ndegrees which was well within the predicted range. The RRA was commanded back\nto approximately 15.2 degrees from stow. Preliminary analysis indicated the\nantenna reached about 15.8 degrees also well within the predicted range. The\nRRA motor temperature was at 1 degree C at the start of the activity and had\nincreased to 1.6 degrees C at its completion.\n\n After verifying proper RRA slewing, the RRA slew test mini-sequence was\nuplinked to the spacecraft for execution on April 28. Upon successful uplink,\na Delayed Action Command (DAC) was sent which will reposition the stator on\nMay 4 to its initial pre-test position. Also, a DAC was sent to turn the\nTwo-Way Noncoherent (TWNC) on April 28 prior to the start of the RRA slew test\nmini-sequence.\n\n7. On April 27, a NO-OP command was sent to reset the command loss timer to\n264 hours, its planned value during this mission phase.\n\n8. On April 28, the RRA slew test executed nominally. The spacecraft under\nstored sequence control performed six RRA slews starting at about 16 degrees\nfrom stow and going to 53 degrees, back to 25 degrees, then to 51 degrees,\nback to 22 degrees, then to 48 degrees and then back to 21 degrees. All of\nthe slews were well within the predicted range. The RRA motor temperature was\nat 2.3 degrees C at the start of the activity and had increased to 4.4\ndegrees C at its completion. After completion of the RRA slews, real-time\ncommands were sent to reconfigure back to the pre-test configuration.\n\n9. The AC/DC bus imbalance measurements have not exhibited significant change\n(greater than 25 DN) throughout this period. The AC measurement reads 17 DN\n(3.9 volts). The DC measurement reads 134 DN (15.7 volts). These\nmeasurements are consistent with the model developed by the AC/DC special\nanomaly team.\n\n10. The Spacecraft status as of April 29, 1993, is as follows:\n\n a) System Power Margin - 75 watts\n b) Spin Configuration - Dual-Spin\n c) Spin Rate/Sensor - 3.15rpm/Star Scanner\n d) Spacecraft Attitude is approximately 23 degrees\n off-sun (lagging) and 4 degrees off-earth (leading)\n e) Downlink telemetry rate/antenna- 40bps(coded)/LGA-1\n f) General Thermal Control - all temperatures within\n acceptable range\n g) RPM Tank Pressures - all within acceptable range\n h) Orbiter Science- Instruments powered on are the PWS,\n EUV, UVS, EPD, MAG, HIC, and DDS\n i) Probe/RRH - powered off, temperatures within\n acceptable range\n j) CMD Loss Timer Setting - 264 hours\n Time To Initiation - 203 hours\n\n\nGDS (Ground Data Systems):\n\n1. The first Galileo-GDS test of the MGDS V18.0 Command System (CMD) took\nplace April 27, 1993 with DSS-61 (Madrid 34 meter antenna). The test went\nwell and demonstrated that the new command system interfaced with the new DSN\n(Deep Space Network) Group 5 Command Processor Assembly (CPA). The test was\nsuccessful and the next test for V18.0 CMD is scheduled for May 1, 1993 with\nDSS-15 (Goldstone 34 meter antenna).\n\n2. The April System Engineers Monthly Report(SEMR)/Ground System Development\nOffice (GSDO) MMR was conducted Thursday, April 29. A review of current\nProject and Institutional (DSN and MOSO) system status was conducted. On-going\ncruise development plus the GSDO Phase 1 and 2 delivery schedules, past months\naccomplishments and potential problem areas were discussed. No significant\nschedule changes or significant problems were reported.\n\n\nTRAJECTORY\n\n As of noon Thursday, April 29, 1993, the Galileo Spacecraft trajectory\nstatus was as follows:\n\n\tDistance from Earth 187,745,300 km (1.26 AU)\n\tDistance from Sun 296,335,800 km (1.98 AU)\n\tHeliocentric Speed 89,100 km per hour\n\tDistance from Jupiter 522,015,800 km\n\tRound Trip Light Time 20 minutes, 58 seconds\n\nSPECIAL TOPIC", "And one of my profs is the chief engineer for the project (Dr. Ron\nHumble, Univ. Colorado at Colorado Springs).\n\nI love the idea of an inflatable 1-mile long sign.... It will be a\nreally neat thing to see it explode when a bolt (or even better, a\nWestford Needle!) comes crashing into it at 10 clicks a sec. \n\n Whooooooooshhhhhh...... \n\n\n\nI hear that it will supposedly coincide\nwith the Atlanta Olympics. ", "\nActually, Hiten wasn't originally intended to go into lunar orbit at all,\nso it indeed didn't have much fuel on hand. The lunar-orbit mission was\nan afterthought, after Hagoromo (a tiny subsatellite deployed by Hiten\nduring a lunar flyby) had a transmitter failure and its proper insertion\ninto lunar orbit couldn't be positively confirmed.\n\nIt should be noted that the technique does have disadvantages. It takes\na long time, and you end up with a relatively inconvenient lunar orbit.\nIf you want something useful like a low circular polar orbit, you do have\nto plan to expend a certain amount of fuel, although it is reduced from\nwhat you'd need for the brute-force approach.", "\nI was at an interesting seminar at work (UK's R.A.L. Space Science\nDept.) on this subject, specifically on a small-scale Solar Sail\nproposed as a student space project. The guy giving the talk was keen to\ngenerate interest in the project. I'll typein the handout he gave out at\nthe meeting. Here goes : \n\n\t\t\tThe Microlight Solar Sail\n\t\t\t-------------------------\n\n1. Introduction\nThe solar sail is a well-established concept. Harnessing the pressure of\nsunlight, a spacecraft would have unlimited range. In principle, such a\nvehicle could explore the whole Solar System with zero fuel consumption.\n\nHowever it is more difficult to design a practical solar sail than most\npeople realize. The pressure of sunlight is only about one kilogram per\nsquare kilometer. Deploying and controlling the large area of aluminized\nfabric which would be necessary to transport a 'conventional' type\nspacecraft is a daunting task. This is why, despite the potential of hte\nidea, no such craft has actually been launched to date.\n\n2.Design\nRecent advances in microelectronics make possible a different concept: a\ntiny sail just a few metres in diameter which could be controlled purely\nbe electronics, with no mechanical parts. Several attitude control\nmethods are feasible: for example the pressure sunlight exerts on a\npanel of solar cells varies according to whether power is being drawn.\n\nThe key components of the craft will be a minute CCD camera developed at\nEdinburgh University which can act as both attitude sensor and data\ngathering device; solar cells providing ~1 watt power for control and\ncommunication; and a directional radio antenna etched onto the surface\nof the sail itself. Launched as a piggyback payload, the total cost of\nthe mission can be limited to a few tens of thousands of dollars.\n\n3.Missions\nThe craft would be capable of some ambitious missions. For example:\na) It could rendezvous with a nearby asteroid from the Apollo or Amor\ngroups. Closeup pictures could be transmitted back to Earth at a low bit\nrate.\nb) It could be steered into a lunar polar orbit. Previously unobserved\nareas around the lunar poles could be viewed. By angling the sail to\nreflect sunlight downwards, polar craters whose bases never receive\nsunlight could be imaged. Bright reflections would confirm that\nvolatiles such as water ice have become trapped in these\nlocations.[Immensely valuable information for setting up a manned lunar\nbase, BTW]\nc) It could be sent to rendezvous with a small asteroid or comet\nnucleus. Impacting at low speed, a thin wire probe attached to the craft\ncauses it to rebound while capturing a tiny sample is a sharp-edged\ntube, like performing a biopsy. Returning to Earth, the sail acts as an\nideal re-entry parachute: load per unit area 20 gm/m2 ensures that heat\nis reradiated so efectively that the sail temperature cannot exceed ~300\ndeg C. The material sample is recovered, enclosed in a small insulating\ncontainer.\n\nContact: Colin Jack Tel. 0865-200447\nOxford Mathematical Designs, 131 High Street, Oxford OX1 4DH, England\n\n--------------------------------\n\nThis guy would love to hear from anyone interested in this project or\nseeking details or anything, and would be most happy to send you more\ninformation.\n\n\tAndy\n\n\n\n-- ", "\nIndirect compared to what? Did Voyager 2 traverse a substantially greater\ndistance than, say, a Hohmann orbit? I've never heard Voyager's path\ndescribed as \"indirect\" before... \n", "\n: As you know all ready, it is the pattern in the bioplasmic energy\n: field that is significant.\n\nNo, I didn't already know that. I've never even heard of a\n\"bioplasmic energy field.\" Care to explain it? It's been a few years\nsince my last fields class so I may have forgotten (or maybe I skipped\nthat day). Anyway, as Ross Perot said, I'm all ears. Well, eyes in\nthis case.\n", "\n\n\n\nGamma Ray Bursts (GRBs) are seen coming equally from all directions.\nHowever, given the number of bright ones, there are too few faint\nones to be consistent with being equally dense for as far\nas we can see--it is as if they are all contained within\na finite sphere (or a sphere with fuzzy edges) with us at the\ncenter. (These measurements are statistical, and you can\nalways hide a sufficiently small number of a different\ntype of GRB with a different origin in the data. I am assuming\nthat there is only one population of GRBs).\n\nThe data indicates that we are less than 10% of the radius of the center\nof the distribution. The only things the Earth is at the exact center\nof are the Solar system (at the scale of the Oort cloud of comets\nway beyond Pluto) and the Universe. Cosmological theories, placing\nGRBs throughout the Universe, require supernova-type energies to\nbe released over a timescale of milliseconds. Oort cloud models\ntend to be silly, even by the standards of astrophysics.\n\nIf GRBs were Galactic (i.e. distributed through the Milky Way Galaxy)\nyou would expect them to be either concentrated in the plane of\nthe Galaxy (for a 'disk' population), or towards the Galactic center\n(for a spherical 'halo' population). We don't see this, so if they\nare Galactic, they must be in a halo at least 250,000 light years in\nradius, and we would probably start to see GRBs from the Andromeda\nGalaxy (assuming that it has a similar halo.) For comparison, the\nEarth is 25,000 light-years from the center of the Galaxy.\n\n\nThe aren't concentrated in the known spacelanes, and we don't\nsee many coming from Zeta Reticuli and Tau Ceti.\n\n\nThere are more than 130 GRB different models in the refereed literature.\nRight now, the theorists have a sort of unofficial moratorium\non new models until new observational evidence comes in.\n", "\n\nIf not for the lack of extraneously capitalized words, I'd swear that\nMcElwaine had changed his name and moved to Cal Poly. I also find the\nchoice of newsgroups 'interesting'. Perhaps someone should tell this\nguy that 'sci.astro' doesn't stand for 'astrology'?\n\nIt's truly frightening that posts like this are originating at what\nare ostensibly centers of higher learning in this country. Small\nwonder that the rest of the world thinks we're all nuts and that we\nhave the problems that we do.\n\n[In case you haven't gotten it yet, David, I don't think this was\nquite appropriate for a posting to 'sci' groups.]\n\n-- \n\"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live\n in the real world.\" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden", "Here are some recent observations taken by the Hubble Space Telescope:\n\n o The Faint Object Spectrograph (FOS) was used to make ultraviolet\n observations of both the planet Pluto, and its moon Charon. The\n peakups were successful. The observations were executed as\n scheduled, and no problems were reported.\n\n o Observations were made using the High Speed Photometer of the Planet\n Uranus during an occultation by a faint star in Capricornus. These\n observations will help in our understanding of the planet's\n atmospheric radiative and dynamical processes. This event occurred\n close to the last quarter moon, and special arrangements had to be\n made to modify the lunar limit tests to allow these observations.\n The observations are currently being reviewed, and all the\n observations looked okay.", "Hello netters,\n\n I'm new to this board and I thought this might be the best place\nfor my post. I have a question regarding satellite technology seen\nin the movie Patriot Games. In the movies, the CIA utilizes its\norbitting sats to pinpoint a specific terrorist camp in N Africa.\nThe photos taken by the sats are stunning! I know that sats are\ncapable of photographing the license plates of vehicles. My\nquestion is this: The camp in question was taken out by the\nBritish SAS. And while the SAS was in action, the CIA team was\nwatching in the warroom back in Langley, VA. The action of the SAS\nwas clear and appeared to be relayed via a sat. The action was at\nnight and the photography appeared to be an x-ray type. That is,\none could see the action within the tents/structures of the camp.\nDoes such techology exist and what is it's nature? i.e., UV, IR,\nx-ray, etc.\n\nPS Who wrote the book Patriot Games?", "\njfc> If gamma ray bursters are extragalactic, would absorption from the\njfc> galaxy be expected? How transparent is the galactic core to gamma\njfc> rays?\n\nand later...\n\nJB> So, if the 1/r^2 law is incorrect (assume\nJB> some unknown material [dark matter??] inhibits Gamma Ray propagation),\nJB> could it be possible that we are actually seeing much less energetic\nJB> events happening much closer to us? The even distribution could\nJB> be caused by the characteristic propagation distance of gamma rays \nJB> being shorter then 1/2 the thickness of the disk of the galaxy.\n\n\n 0.\n\n Well, maybe not zero, but very little. At the typical energies for \n gamma rays, the Galaxy is effectively transparent. \n\n Hans Bloemen had a review article in Ann. Rev. Astr. Astrophys. a few \n years back in which he discusses this in more depth.", "If this man Clark is a NASA administrator then god save NASA. Of course\nthe Shuttles record is unrivaled ! There is only one Shuttle. Furthermore,\nthere is only likely to be one Shuttle now that Hermes and Boron are \neffectively cancelled.\n\nThese officials should spend more of their time explaining to their\nEuropean and Asian partners how we are expected to believe in them\nwhen their paymasters change their minds on major international\nprojects everytime a new US administration takes office (considering\nthe major impacts this has on the European and Asian (Japanese)\nindustry). It is also appreciated how this affects American\nindustry. I am of course talking about Space Stattion Freedom.\n", "Forwarded from John Spencer (spencer@lowell.edu):\n\nThere will be two eclipses of Iapetus by Saturn and its\nrings, in May and July. Please spread the word! Here's some\ninformation about the events, and then a couple of messages from Jay\nGoguen of JPL appealing for thermal observations of the eclipse to\nlearn more about the thermal properties of Iapetus. He might also have\nsome money available...\n\nJohn Spencer, 1993/04/21\n\nIapetus will be eclipsed by the shadows of Saturn's rings and Saturn\nitself on 1993/05/01-02 (18:27-13:43 UT) and again on 1993/07/20-21,\n(21:16-09:38 UT). Timing is as follows;\n\n 1993 May 1-2\n\n A-ring ingress 18:27\n egress 19:30\n B-ring ingress 19:51\n egress 21:42\n C-ring egress 23:00\n Saturn ingress 23:59\n egress 10:02\n B-ring ingress 10:28\n egress 12:19\n A-ring ingress 12:40\n egress 13:43\n\n 1993 July 20-21\n\n Saturn ingress 21:16\n egress 05:08\n A-ring ingress 05:13 (grazing)\n egress 09:38\n\nTimes could be 30 minutes later according to an alternate ephemeris,\nand photometric observations are important for refining Iapetus'\norbit. Because the Sun's size projected on the rings as seen from\nIapetus is 3100 km it's unlikely that we will learn anything new about\nthe rings themselves from the observations. See Soma (1992), Astronomy\nand Astrophysics 265, L21-L24 for more details. Thanks to Andy Odell\nof Northern Arizona University for bringing the events to my\nattention.\n\nTHERMAL OBSERVATIONS?\n\n\n To me, the interesting thing to do would be thermal IR of the 20 July\n disappearance into the shadow of the planet to measure thermal inertia,\n etc. Unfortunately, the 21:30 UT of this event renders it inaccessible,\n except from Russia. Even from Calar Alto, Saturn is rising through 3\n airmasses at 23:00 UT. Do you know anyone in Russia or Ukraine with\n a big telescope and 10 um instrumentation that's looking for something\n to do? I'd be willing to make a personal grant of >$100 for the data.\n\n Jay\n\nand again:\n\n please try to encourage anyone that can observe the iapetus planet\n disappearance to do so at thermal wavelengths. My impression would\n be that it's not an easy observation. Iapetus will be faint and\n getting fainter in eclipse, so you'll need a big telescope that's a\n good IR telescope and reasonable 10 - 20 um instrumentation. I don't\n think that combination is widely available at the longitudes that are\n well placed for observation. We need SOFIA for this one. One\n possibility would be the IR telescope in India, but it's only a 1.2 m.\n\njay", "You forget that Apollo was a Government program and had to start \nrelatively from scratch. Some people at NASA think that this could work. \nOne of them replied to me personally after I posted this original message \nseveral days ago. I have heard Jerry Pournelle suggest this idea before.\n", "\n\nI notice you did not offer an alternative number. Try this one on for\nsize..... by the year 2000, American taxpayers will have given Israel\none dollar for every star in the Milky Way Galaxy.", "Well, I seem to have struck an interesting discussion off. Given that I\nam not an astrophysicist or nuclear physicist, i'll have to boil it\ndown a bit.\n\n1) ALl the data on bursts to date, shows a smooth random distribution.\n\n2) that means they aren't concentrated in galactic cores, our or someone\nelses.\n\n3) If the distribution is smooth, we are either seeing some ENORMOUSLY\nlarge phenomena scattered at the edge of the universe said phenomena\nbeing subject to debate almost as vioent as the phenomena\n\tOR\nwe are seeing some phenomena out at like the Oort cloud, but then it needs\nsome potent little energy source, that isn't detectable by any other\ncurrent methods.\n\n4) we know it's not real close, like slightly extra solar, because\nwe have no parallax measurements on the bursts.\n\n5) the bursts seem to bright to be something like black hole quanta or\nsuper string impacts or something like that.\n\nSo everyone is watching the data and arguing like mad in the meanwhile.\n\nwhat i am wondering, is this in people's opinion, A NEW Physics problem.\n\nEinstein got well known for solvingthe photoelectric effect. \n\nCopernicus, started looking at irregularities in planetary motion.\n\nIs this a big enough problem, to create a new area of physics?\njust a little speculative thinking folks.", "\n\nBut with cheaper fuel from space based sources it will be cheaper to \nreach more orbits than from the ground.\n\nAlso remember, that the presence of a repair/supply facility adds value\nto the space around it. If you can put your satellite in an orbit where it\ncan be reached by a ready source of supply you can make it cheaper and gain\nbenefit from economies of scale.\n\n Allen", "\n I doubt there are good prospects for a self armoring system\nfor venus surface conditions (several hundred degrees, very high\npressure of CO2, possibly sulfuric and nitric acids or oxides\nbut it is a notion to consider for outer planets rs where you might\npick up ices under less extream upper atmosphere conditions buying\ndeeper penetration. A nice creative idea, unlikly but worthy of\nthinking about.\n", "In some sense, I think that the folks who think the idea is wonderful, and the\nfolks who want to boycott anyone who has anything to do with this project are\nboth right.\n\nThat is, I think that space advertising is an interesting idea, and if someone\nwants to try it out, more power to them. However, a company may discover that\nthe cost of launch is not the only cost of advertising, and a company who \ngauged that ill will would lose them more revenue than the advertising would\ngain might decide to bow out of the project.\n\nI got incensed when I read that Carl Sagan called this idea an \"abomination.\" \nI don't think that word means what he thinks it does. Children starving in the\nrichest country in the world is an abomination; an ad agency is at worst just\nin poor taste.", ": Announce that a reward of $1 billion would go to the first corporation \n: who successfully keeps at least 1 person alive on the moon for a year. \n: Then you'd see some of the inexpensive but not popular technologies begin \n: to be developed. THere'd be a different kind of space race then!\n\nI'm an advocate of this idea for funding Space Station work, and I\nthrow around the $1 billion figure for that \"reward.\" I suggest that\nyou increase the Lunar reward to about $3 billion.\n\nThis would encourage private industry to invest in space, which \nshould be one of NASA's primary goals.\n\n-- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office\n kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (713) 483-4368", "\nThe Centaur that is being built for T4 would be a better bet to integrate \nonto the Proton as the T4/Centaur is designed for the Extremely Harsh \nenvorinment of the T4 launch. It is also closer to 4 m in diameter. \n\nYou've hit on the real kicker, however. The Centaur is pressure stabilized. \nIt cannot hold up its own weight without pressure in the tanks. Additionally, \nthe pressure difference between the two tanks must be maintained to ~+/- 5 psi. \nThat is rather tight to be rocking and rolling on the train. The pressure \nstabilization is how centaur achieves the performance. On numerous occasions\n(when I was there 88-91) the AF wanted to see what it would take to make \na non-pressure stabilized centaur. The answer -- a centaur not worth launching. \n\nThe Atlas/Centaur does not require on-pad integration, however the T4/Centaur\ndoes. I believe the on-pad integration is to a great extent due to the \ncleanliness requirements and PFL configuration, so maybe something can be \ndone there........\n\n\n\nThe addition of LOX/LH facilities is critical as the centaur tops off as it \nlifts off. A LHe facility is also needed. I don't know what the proton uses \nfor fuel, but since they are derived from ICBM's I would suspect that they \nuse storable propellants which don't have the ullage problem that cryo's \ndo. If there is no cryo at the sight at all, the addition of these systems \ncould be big $$, not to mention the real tech transfer issues involved with \nproviding centaur GSE to Russia. That issue alone might be enough to kill \nthis idea. \n", "Pat sez;\n\nYeah, but a windscreen cut down most of it. Canopies ended it completely.\n\nOf course, the environment in space continues to suck :-)\n\n-Tommy Mac\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTom McWilliams 517-355-2178 wk \\\\ As the radius of vision increases,\n18084tm@ibm.cl.msu.edu 336-9591 hm \\\\ the circumference of mystery grows.", "The most current orbital elements from the NORAD two-line element sets are\ncarried on the Celestial BBS, (513) 427-0674, and are updated daily (when\npossible). Documentation and tracking software are also available on this\nsystem. As a service to the satellite user community, the most current\nelements for the current shuttle mission are provided below. The Celestial\nBBS may be accessed 24 hours/day at 300, 1200, 2400, 4800, or 9600 bps using\n8 data bits, 1 stop bit, no parity.\n\nElement sets (also updated daily), shuttle elements, and some documentation\nand software are also available via anonymous ftp from archive.afit.af.mil\n(129.92.1.66) in the directory pub/space.\n\nSTS 55 \n1 22640U 93 27 A 93120.24999999 .00044939 00000-0 12819-3 0 129\n2 22640 28.4643 241.8868 0011265 284.7181 109.3644 15.91616537 580", "From another space forum\n When workers at the Kennedy Space Center disassembled the STS-56\n solid rocket boosters they were surprised to find a pair of pliers\n lodged into the outside base of the right hand SRB. The tool survived\n the trip from the launch pad up to approximately a 250,000 foot\n altitude, then down to splashdown and towing back to KSC.\n\n NASA spokesperson Lisa Malone told the media,\n\n \"It's been a long time since something like this happened. We've\n lost washers and bolts (before) but never a tool like this.\"\n\n The initial investigation into the incident has shown that a\n Thiokol Corp. technician noticed and reported his pliers as missing on\n April 2nd. Unfortunately, the worker's supervisor did not act on the\n report and Discovery was launched with its \"extra payload\". NASA\n officials were never told of the missing tool before the April 8th\n launch date.\n\n The free-flying pliers were supposed to be tethered to the SRB\n technician. When the tool was found in an aft section of the booster,\n its 18-inch long rope was still attached. The pliers were found in a\n part of the booster which is not easily visible from the launch pad.\n\n A spokesperson for the Lockheed Space Operations Company said that\n the Shuttle processor will take \"appropriate action\". Thiokol is a\n subcontractor to LSOC for work to prepare Shuttle hardware for launch.\n\n_________________________________________________________\n\nKarl Anderson\t\nDEV/2000: Configuration Management/Version Control\n\nDept 53K/006-2\t\tRochester, Minnesota 55901\n253-8044\t\tTie 8-453-8044\nINTERNET: karl@vnet.ibm.com\nPRODIGY: CMMG96A", "\nSomeone from NASA posted that there were very significant mass margins\non the HST re-boost mission. A while back i had asked why not carry\nthe EDO pallet up, and the answer was the mass margins were tight enough, they weren't even carrying extra suits.\n\n\nWhere's wingo when you need him:-)\n\nCOme on. Knock that S**T off.\n\nYOu forget, that during skylab, they did overnight mission planning\nfor the repair EVA's. Also during theøÄ \nIntelsat Mission, they did overnight WETF simulations.\nI somehow think they could train up a new EVA in 8 months.\n\nAnd as for building hardware, anything can be built if you want it\nbad enough.\n\nYOu forget, the BUS 1 is already built. all they'd ahve to do\nis soup it up, even test it on a delta mission.\n\nDon't get into this mode of negativism. besides, at the rate\nmissions slip, the Discovery won't launch on this mission until\nMarch. that's almost a year.\n\n\nAh, but how much more expensive is the Second HST servicing mission.\n\nYOu forget, there is a bum FGS, the Solar array electronics, are\ngetting hinky and there is still 8 months until the servicing mission.\n\nThe time for the space walks are growing rapidly. THis was orignally\nplanned out as 3 spacewalks, now they are at 5 EVA's with 3 reserve\nwalks.\n\nIf the SMT can avoid a second servicing mission that's $500 million\nsaved. If the Weight savings, means they can sit on orbit for 30 Days.\nand handle any contingency problems, that's quite a savings.\n\n\n\nOf course, there wasn't any need for the Saturn V after apollo too.\n\nas for the problems with the aperture door, I am sure they can\nwork out some way to handle that. Maybe a Plug made from\nFrozen ice.? it'll keep out any contamination,\nyet sublime away after teh boost.", " \n(Deletion)\n \nWell, that is certainly different, but it looks as if there is a translation\nfound for everything. By the way, I am most surprised to hear that night and\nday move in an orbit.", "\nLiberals and supporters of Clinton say that costs made the action \nnecessary.\n\n-- \n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nSteve Podleski\t\t\t| phone: 216-433-4000\nNASA Lewis Research Center \t| \nCleveland, Ohio 44135 \t| email: pspod@hooch.lerc.nasa.gov ", "\nIs it right??? That is new stuff for me. So it means that you just can \nnot put a sattellite around around the Moon for too long because its \norbit will be unstable??? If so, what is the reason??? Is that because \nthe combined gravitacional atraction of the Sun,Moon and Earth \nthat does not provide a stable orbit around the Moon???\n\n C.O.EGALON@LARC.NASA.GOV\n\nC.O.Egalon@larc.nasa.gov", "\n [re: voyages of discovery...]\n Could you give examples of privately funded ones?\n\nIf you believe 1492 (the film), Columbus had substantial private\nfunds. When Columbus asked the merchant why he put the money in, the\nguy said (slightly paraphrased) , \"There is Faith, Hope and Charity.\nBut greater than these is Banking.\"", "Astronomy & Space magazine's UK telephone newsline carries the times to\nsee the Russian Space Station Mir which will be visible every EVENING (some\ntime between 9 o'clock and midnight) from April 27 to May 7. It's about as\nbright as Jupiter at its best. There are two cosmonuats on board.\n\nFor the time to watch, tel. 0891-88-19-50 (48p/min peak 36p/min all other\ntimes, but prediction is at start of the weekly message so it only costs a\nfew pence).\n\nE-mail reports of sightings would be appreciated: give lat/long and UT (a\nfew seconds accuracy if possible) when it passes ABOVE or BELOW any bright\nstar (say brighter than mag. 3), planet or Moon.\n\nWith Moon in evening sky also, note that from somewhere in U.K. Mir will\npass in front of the Moon each night! Please alert local clubs to the\ntelephone newsline, and general public as Mir can cause quite a stir!\n\n-Tony Ryan, \"Astronomy & Space\", new International magazine, available from:\n Astronomy Ireland, P.O.Box 2888, Dublin 1, Ireland.\n6 issues (one year sub.): UK 10.00 pounds, US$20 surface (add US$8 airmail).\nACCESS/VISA/MASTERCARD accepted (give number, expiration date, name&address).", "Forwarded from Neal Ausman, Galileo Mission Director\n\n GALILEO\n MISSION DIRECTOR STATUS REPORT\n POST-LAUNCH\n April 16 - 22, 1993\n\n\nSPACECRAFT\n\n1. On April 19, cruise science Memory Readouts (MROs) were performed for the\nExtreme Ultraviolet Spectrometer (EUV), Dust Detector (DDS), and Magnetometer\n(MAG) instruments. Preliminary analysis indicates the data was received\nproperly.\n\n2. On April 19, a Command Detector Unit Signal-to-Noise Ratio (CDUSNR) test\nand a Radio Frequency Subsystem Automatic Gain Control (RFSAGC) test were\nperformed using the LGA-1 (Low Gain Antenna #1) over DSS-63 (Madrid 70 meter\nantenna) and DSS-61 (Madrid 34 meter antenna), respectively. Data analysis\nis in process. These tests are periodically performed to provide detailed\ninformation relative to the telecom command hardware integrity.\n\n3. On April 19, a NO-OP command was sent to reset the command loss timer to\n264 hours, its planned value during this mission phase.\n\n4. On April 21, the first of two suppressed carrier/DSN (Deep Space Network)\nadvanced receiver characterization tests was performed over DSS-14 (Goldstone\n70 meter antenna). The spacecraft modulation index was varied from 43 degrees\nto 90 degrees for a range of ground receiver bandwidth settings.\n\n5. The AC bus imbalance measurement has not exhibited significant change\n(greater than 25 DN) throughout this period but the DC bus imbalance\nmeasurement has. The AC measurement reads 20 DN (4.5 volts). The DC\nmeasurement has ranged from 43 DN (4.6 volts) to 138 DN (16.2 volts) and\ncurrently reads 138 DN (16.2 volts). These measurements are consistent with\nthe model developed by the AC/DC special anomaly team.\n\n6. The Spacecraft status as of April 22, 1993, is as follows:\n\n a) System Power Margin - 68 watts\n b) Spin Configuration - Dual-Spin\n c) Spin Rate/Sensor - 3.15rpm/Star Scanner\n d) Spacecraft Attitude is approximately 21 degrees\n off-sun (lagging) and 5 degrees off-earth (leading)\n e) Downlink telemetry rate/antenna- 40bps(coded)/LGA-1\n f) General Thermal Control - all temperatures within\n acceptable range\n g) RPM Tank Pressures - all within acceptable range\n h) Orbiter Science- Instruments powered on are the PWS,\n EUV, UVS, EPD, MAG, HIC, and DDS\n i) Probe/RRH - powered off, temperatures within\n acceptable range\n j) CMD Loss Timer Setting - 264 hours\n Time To Initiation - 184 hours\n\n\nTRAJECTORY\n\n As of noon Thursday, April 22, 1993, the Galileo Spacecraft trajectory\nstatus was as follows:\n\n\tDistance from Earth 169,747,800 km (1.14 AU)\n\tDistance from Sun 286,967,900 km (1.92 AU)\n\tHeliocentric Speed 91,200 km per hour\n\tDistance from Jupiter 532,735,900 km\n\tRound Trip Light Time 18 minutes, 58 seconds\n\n\nSPECIAL TOPIC", "\nActually, the situation is even worse than that. The *total mass* of the\nPluto Fast Flyby spacecraft is only 250ish pounds, and most of that is\nsupport equipment like power and communications. The mass available for\ninstruments is maybe 10% of that. I don't think a BATSE will fit...\n\nActually, would you need the shielding? My understanding is that it's\nmostly there to give the detectors some directionality. No point in\ndoing that if you've only got one. I'm sure the burst detectors that\nhave flown on other deep-space missions haven't weighed that much.\n(Mind you, they're probably still too heavy -- the PFF people would put\nmore Pluto-specific instruments on first, if they had any mass to spare.)", "[...]\n\nThis reminds me... my fuzzy brain recalls that somebody was thinking\nof reviving the San Marco launch platform off the coast of Kenya,\nwhere the Copernicus satellite was launched around 1972. Is this\ntrue, or am I imagining it? Possibly it's connected with one of the\nItalian programs to revive the Scout in a new version.\n\nThat old platform must be getting pretty rusty, and there ain't a lot\nof infrastructure to go with it...", "\n\n\n\n\nSounds to me like you'd want a star for the ground plane.\n", "\n\nThe main effect of the spherical aberration problems with the\nprimary mirror was to drive the computer engineers to develop the image\nprocessing software that much faster. When they use the _same_ deconvolution \nsoftware on the images from the fixed Hubble, be ready for some \nincredible results! There is every reason to believe that the results will \n_exceed_ the original specs by a fair margin. \n\nAdaptive optics is a combination of hardware and software. It works \nrealtime, not after the fact, as is the case with Hubble. You might be\ninterested to know this technology has made it to the amateur market, in\nthe form of the AO-2 Adaptive Optics System. Starting on page 52 of the \nApril, 1993 Sky & Telescope is a three page review of this new product.\nIt lists for $1,290. The article states: \"The AO-2 Adaptive Optics System \ncomes in a handy soft-plastic case that a three-year-old could carry \naround.\" Even though this device is really only good for the brightest\nobjects, \"it could cope with image movements of up to 0.8 millimeter\nin the telescope's focal plane.\" Now just imagine how well this infant \ntechnology will do in a few years, especially in a dedicated system that \nhas hundreds of thousands of dollars, and many man-hours invested in its\ndevelopment.\n\nGeorge Krumins", "\n\tYou're right, it doesn't appear to working correctly. It really\n\tshould say:\n\t\t\"space: the last frontier\"\n\tacross the top. :) :) :)\n\n", "Forwarded from the Mars Observer Project\n\n MARS OBSERVER STATUS REPORT\n April 30, 1993\n 11:30 AM PDT\n\nDSS-65 (Madrid 34 meter antenna) did not acquire the expected Mars Observer\nSpacecraft signal at the scheduled beginning of track yesterday morning (4/29)\nat approximately 6:00 AM. Indications were that the spacecraft had entered a\nFault Protection mode sometime between that time and receipt of normal\ntelemetry at the end of the previous station pass (DSS-15 - Goldstone 34\nmeter antenna) at approximately 8:00 PM the evening before. Entry into\nContingency Mode was verified when signal was reacquired and telemetry\nindicated that the spacecraft was sun coning. After subsystem engineers\nreported all systems performing nominally, fault protection telemetry modes\nwere reconfigured and memory readouts of command system Audit Queue and\nAACS (Attitude and Articulation Control Subsystem) Starex performed. These\nreadouts verified that Contingency Mode entry occurred shortly after 1:30 AM\nyesterday, 4/29/93. Preliminary indications are that a Sun Ephemeris Check\nfailure triggered fault protection. However, the Flight Team will be\ndetermining the precise cause over the next few days.\n\nAs of last evening, the spacecraft had been commanded back to Inertial\nReference and was stable in that mode. The Flight Team is planning to\ncommand the spacecraft back to Array Normal Spin state today.", "Well thank you dennis for your as usual highly detailed and informative \nposting. \n\nThe question i have about the proton, is could it be handled at\none of KSC's spare pads, without major malfunction, or could it be\nhandled at kourou or Vandenberg? \n\nNow if it uses storables, then how long would it take for the russians\nto equip something at cape york?\n\nIf Proton were launched from a western site, how would it compare to the\nT4/centaur? As i see it, it should lift very close to the T4.", "The following flyer was distributed at AIPAC's 34th annual Policy Conference:", "I didn't think the bi-stem design was used so much for the retrieval as\nfor the ability to launch in a tight (size) STS envelope. This is my own \nguess, based on similar designs flown on other large STS-launched s/c \n(GRO, UARS). Also, there _might_ be some consideration given to mass \nrequirements (bi-stems weight less than conventional S/A). Finally, \nthe HST arrays _do_ have the ability to be detached--remember, they're \ngoing to be replaced with new arrays.\n\nHowever, as an ACS guy who's seen his branch management pull their\ncollective hair out over HST, I would voice a hearty 'yea' to using\nconventional arrays over bi-stems, whenever possible. No half hertz\nflexible modes, no thermal snap, no problem.", "\n\nHa!\n\n\nWatch me. It flies. It lands. It gets rebuilt.\n\n\n\nThat's not what they told us back in the '70's.\n\n\n1. It isn't a logical follow-on. A logical follow-on would have\nbeen either a Russian \"snowfox\" type thingey (for the lifting bodies)\nor something like MMI's Space Van (or Boeing's TSTO, or the airbreathing\nTSTO the military is allegedly _using_ now that probably cost less\nto develop than the shuttle does to fly for a year).\n\n\nKeep that attitude, and it'll be a couple centuries before we get real\naccess to space, unless another country without all that baggage comes\nalong and kicks our ass in the space race.\n\n\nOr NASA HQ. That doesn't give the rest of the program plausible deniability\nif we deceide that it wasn't worth the money we've spent, which is by now\nprobably a lot more than Apollo.\n\n\nYes, but it gets sold on the basis of the political statements.\nYou're saying basically that it met the engineering specs (which is\nquestionable, IMHO) so it's a success, never mind that you couldn't\nget the funding the shuttle eats with those engineering specs in\na thousand years.\n\n\nYou can get hypersonic flight data with an X-15 or a follow-on X-15\ntype vehicle for much less.\n\nAnd economics and engineering are interchangable; engineering in the\nabsense of economics is basically just physics, and in terms of physics,\nthe shuttle looks like a failure next to the X-15.\n\n\n\nHS>Sorry, support that I can arrange for launchers all goes to launchers\nHS>that I have some hope of riding some day. At the moment, that's\nHS>DC-X's hoped-for successors.\n\n\nThe shuttle program has a bad record. I _once_ had hopes for the\nshuttle program. By now I know those hopes were false. \n\nAll I have for DC-X and similar and dissimilar experimental vehicles\nare hopes. But at least I know they aren't false hopes yet.\n\nI did support the shuttle, way back when. It didn't do nearly what\nit was supposed to. It's time to move on to something that might do\nthe job of orbital delivery better. Or at all.\n\n\n\n\n\nWe don't want to learn how to operate on orbit. It launches, it\nshoves out the payload, it lands. It doesn't waste payload hauling\nup and down EDO pallets and the like.\n\nThe only thing to be learned from shuttle is how *not* to build a\nlauncher.\n\nFinally: that bit about the \"proven\" shuttle. Are you hoping you can\ntell a lie enough times and get someone to believe it?\n\n\nHow much science and technology could have been done is the money spent\non shuttle had been spent differently?\n\n...\n\nLearn about economics and the current budget realities in the United States,\nplease.\n\n", "\nSorry folks, I should have done this, and meant to just after i hit the \nsend key...\n\nOrbital Elements of Comet 1977VII (from Dance files)\n\np(au) 3.424346\ne 0.151899\ni 1.0988\ncap_omega(0) 243.5652\nW(0) 231.1607\nepoch 1977.04110\n\nAlso, perihelions of Gehrels3 were:\n\nApril 1973 83 jupiter radii\nAugust 1970 ~3 jupiter radii\n\nHope this helps...I'm even less of an orbital mechanic than I am an artist.", "\nYou're assuming that \"go solar\" = \"photovoltaic\". Solar dynamic power\n(turbo-alternators) doesn't have this problem. It also has rather less\nair drag due to its higher efficiency, which is a non-trivial win for big\nsolar plants at low altitude.\n\nNow, you might have to replace the *rest* of the electronics fairly often,\nunless you invest substantial amounts of mass in shielding.\n\n\nReferences? Such treaties have been *proposed*, but as far as I know,\nnone of them has ever been negotiated or signed.", "I'm replying to someone who asked for information on space camp.\nI have a brochure that has all different schedules. What age, what \nlevel and what program do you want to know the schedule of? Most of the \nmissions are 5 to 8 days long. The address for Huntsville is:\n\nAlabama Space Science\nExhibit Commission\nU.S. Space and Rocket Center\nOne Tranquility Base, Huntsville, AL 35807\n\n- Jennifer\n", "\n\n\nBill says ...\n\n\nI presume the one you refer to is \"Space Sailing\" by Jerome L. Wright. He \nworked on solar sails while at JPL and as CEO of General Astronautics. I'll\nfurnish ordering info upon request.\n\nThe Friedman book is called \"Starsailing: Solar Sails and Interstellar Travel.\"\nIt was available from the Planetary Society a few years ago, I don't know if\nit still is.", "\n\nInteresting is rigth.. I wonder if they will make a mention of her being an\nastronaut in the credits.. I think it might help people connect the future of\nspace with the present.. And give them an idea that we must go into space..", "\nWhere does the shadow come from? There's nothing close enough to block\nsunlight from hitting them. I wouldn't expect there to be anything block\nour view of them either. What am I missing?", "For some reasons we humans think that it is our place to control\neverything. I doubt that space advertising is any worse than any other\nkind advertising, but it will be a lot harder to escape, and is probably\nthe most blatant example yet of our disregard for the fact that we are \nnot in fact creaters of the universe. Annoying little species, aren't we?\n", "\n\nToo bad they didn't give him a tour of the CGRO data?\n\nI think he'd be fascinated by the Gamma ray bursters. The mind of\nhawking might even propose a mechanism.\n\n\nSO what's a drag free satellite? coated with WD-40? carries an\naluminum-gold set of grateful dead albums? inquiring minds\nwant to know?\n\nAnd why would MO carry any features for being drag free? I thought\naero-braking was a possible MO experimental activity?", "\n\nWell, there already is a sulfate process for TiO2 purification. The\nchlorine process is cleaner, however, and for that reason is achieving\ndominance in the marketplace.\n\nMost Ti is used in pigment, btw (as the oxide), where it replaced\nwhite lead pigment some decades ago. Very little is reduced to the\nmetal.\n\n\nWhich merely evades the issue of why those lunatics are\nthere at all (and, why their children would want to stay.)", "\nTo compute this, and many other astronomical things, go and get (x)ephem written\nby Elwood C. Downey. It is e.g. on export.lcs.mit.edu", "\n\n\n\nIt may be that they just didn't mention it, or that they actually haven't \nthought about it. I got the vague impression from their mission proposal\nthat they weren't taking a very holistic aproach to the whole thing. They\nseemed to want to land people on the Moon by the end of the decade without \nexplaining why, or what they would do once they got there. The only application\nI remember from the Av Week article was placing a telescope on the Moon. That's\ngreat, but they don't explain why it can't be done robotically. \n\n\n\nBut I'm a _member_. Besides Bill, I hang out with you :) \n", "\nActually, there are people who will tell you that it *would* be enough\nto do SSTO development, if done privately as a cut-rate operation. Of\ncourse, they may be over-optimistic.\n\nYou can also assume that a working SSTO would have other applications\nthat would help pay for its development costs.\n\nI'd be inclined to make the prize somewhat larger, but $1G might be enough.", "\n Henry, if I read you correctly, you may be asking \"If I put a blackbody\nin interstellar space ('disregarding the Sun and nearby large warm objects'),\nwhat termperature will it reach in thermal equilibrium with the ambient\nradiation field?\"\n\n If that's the case, let me point out that interstellar dust and \nmolecules provide many instances of things that are, well, not-too-far\nfrom being blackbodies. Many different observations, including IRAS\nand COBE, have determined that interstellar dust grain temperatures\ncan range from 40K to 150K. You might look in a conference proceedings\n\"Interstellar Processes\", ed. D. J. Hollenbach and H. A. Thronson, Jr.,\npublished in 1987. Try the articles by Tielens et al., Seab, and \nBlack.\n\n Inside the disk of the galaxy, the temperature varies quite a bit\nfrom place to place (how close are you to the nearest OB association,\nI would guess). Outside the galaxy, of course, things aren't so \nvaried.\n\n I hope this is what you were looking for....\n", "\nGravity? Doesn't gravity pull down the photons and cause a doppler shift\nor something?\n\n\n\n", "\nIf you've got a good propulsion system that's not useful for deceleration,\nsure you can use chemical rockets for that part... but even just doing the\ndeceleration chemically is a major headache. We're talking seriously high\ncruising velocities; taking the velocity down nearly to zero for a Pluto\norbit isn't easy with chemical fuels.\n\nIncidentally, solar sails are not going to be suitable as the acceleration\nsystem for something like this. They don't go anywhere quickly. (I speak\nas head of mission planning for the Canadian Solar Sail Project, although\nthat is more or less an honorary title right now because CSSP is dormant.)\nThey can't fly a mission like this unless you start talking about very\nadvanced systems that drop in very close to the Sun first.", "\nThe forces and accelerations involved in doing a little bit of orbital\nmaneuvering with HST aboard are much smaller than those involved in\nreentry, landing, and re-launch. The OMS engines aren't very powerful;\nthey don't have to be.", "\n\n[discussion of pros and cons deleted]\n\n\nCould someone give me the references to the LLNL proposal? I've been meaning\nto track it down in conjuntion with something I'm working on. It's not \ndirectly related to space stations, but I think many of the principles will \ncarry over.\n", "\nI love the idea of progressive developmental prizes, but the assumption\nhas\nbeen all along that only the U.S. Gummint could fund the prizes. It\nwouldn't and couldn't do such a thing ... BUT ...\n\nAn eccentric billionaire COULD offer such a prize or series of prizes.\n\nAnyone know H. Ross Perot or Bill Gates personally?", "Astronomy & Space magazine's UK telephone newsline carries the times to\nsee the Russian Space Station Mir which will be visible every EVENING (some\ntime between 9 o'clock and midnight) from April 27 to May 7. It's about as\nbright as Jupiter at its best. There are two cosmonuats on board.\n\nFor the time to watch, tel. 0891-88-19-50 (48p/min peak 36p/min all other\ntimes, but prediction is at start of the weekly message so it only costs a\nfew pence).\n\nE-mail reports of sightings would be appreciated: give lat/long and UT (a\nfew seconds accuracy if possible) when it passes ABOVE or BELOW any bright\nstar (say brighter than mag. 3), planet or Moon.\n\nWith Moon in evening sky also, note that from somewhere in U.K. Mir will\npass in front of the Moon each night! Please alert local clubs to the\ntelephone newsline, and general public as Mir can cause quite a stir!\n\n-Tony Ryan, \"Astronomy & Space\", new International magazine, available from:\n Astronomy Ireland, P.O.Box 2888, Dublin 1, Ireland.\n6 issues (one year sub.): UK 10.00 pounds, US$20 surface (add US$8 airmail).\nACCESS/VISA/MASTERCARD accepted (give number, expiration date, name&address).\n\n (WORLD'S LARGEST ASTRO. SOC. per capita - unless you know better? 0.033%)\nTel: 0891-88-1950 (UK/N.Ireland) 1550-111-442 (Eire). Cost up to 48p per min", "\nActually, the reboost will probably be done last, so that there is a fuel\nreserve during the EVAs (in case they have to chase down an adrift\nastronaut or something like that). But yes, you've got the idea -- the\nreboost is done by taking the whole shuttle up.\n\n\nSomebody has to build that thruster module; it's not an off-the-shelf\nitem. Nor is it a trivial piece of hardware, since it has to include\nattitude control (HST's own is not strong enough to compensate for things\nlike thruster imbalance), guidance (there is no provision to feed gyro\ndata from HST's own gyros to an external device), and separation (you\ndon't want it left attached afterward, if only to avoid possible\ncontamination after the telescope lid is opened again). You also get\nto worry about whether the lid is going to open after the reboost is\ndone and HST is inaccessible to the shuttle (the lid stays closed for\nthe duration of all of this to prevent mirror contamination from\nthrusters and the like).\n\nThe original plan was to use the Orbital Maneuvering Vehicle to do the\nreboost. The OMV was planned to be a sort of small space tug, well\nsuited to precisely this sort of job. Unfortunately, it was costing\na lot to develop and the list of definitely-known applications was\nrelatively short, so it got cancelled.", "\nI've been thinking of sending into Mad magazine an idea for a \nparody, of those books entitled \"How Things Work\" that\nengineers buy their sons, which explain how engines, elevators,\nflourescent lights, etc. work.\n\nThe parody would be \"How Things Really Work.\" Under \"Canned\nFood\", on the left page you'd see the description from \n\"How Things Work\": gleaming stainless steel equipment\npasteurizing the food to precisely the right temperature,\nthen sealing the can in an oxygen-free environment, etc.\n\nOn the right page you'd see \"How Things Really Work\":\nbrain-dead workers sending disgusting food to the\ngleaming equipment -- rotting vegetables, parts of\nanimals people don't eat, barrels of sugar and chemicals.\n\nUnder \"Elevators\" you'd see (on the left) computer geniuses\nworking out algorithms so that X number of people\nwaiting for Y elevators will get to Z floors in the shortest\ntime. On the right, you'd see giggling elevator controllers\nbehind a one-way mirror in the lobby choosing which people\nappear to be in the biggest hurry and making them wait longest.", "\n\n\nI think to some extent this is a case of stooping to their level. You assume\nthat the general public \"can't handle the truth\" and then, based on this \nassumption, go for the fluff arguments. Then someone, who can understand a\ngood argument, comes along and asks \"why don't you just develop the spinoffs?\"\nor \"why can't we just get our spinoffs from some other program, like the\nmilitary?\" There are some good arguments for space development without relying\non its side effects. I'm not ignoring the value of spinoffs. I simply think\nthat the general public deserves more credit than you give them.\n\n\nAnd if you're going to use spinoffs you better make darn sure you are right.\nTeflon has been around since before NASA. As I understand it, Velcro was \nconceptualized by a french doctor who went walking in the woods and took the\ntrouble to wonder how burrs stick to your clothes. Certainly velcro was \navailable on hiking equipment by the early to mid sixties. I would need to \nsee some good evidence before I believe that either of these would not be here\ntoday without NASA.\n", "\n I might suggest giving the management some more mumble time by asking\nthe very leading question (in two or three parts)\n What are your long term expectations of space market, what projects\nspecifically are they funding by internal funds and at what levels\nand what competition do you expect in this area. (This last point\nis always worth hitting upper management with \"gently\" if you want \nthem to think and as hard as you can if you have a good case that\nthere really is competion)\n", "Mike Adams suggested discussions on long-term effects of spaceflight\nto the human being. I love this topic, as some of you regulars know.\n\nSo, having seen Henry's encouraging statement about starting to talk\nabout it; I shall.\n\nI feel that we as a community of people have unique resources\nto deliver to the world a comprehensive book which can elaborate\non the utility of spaceflight to fields which are as divergent \nas medical intensive care, agriculture, environmental protection, and \nprobably more. I do not believe that the general public understands\nthe impact of spaceflight on the whole of society. In the absence\nof such knowledge, we see dwindling support of the world's space effort.\n\nI believe that we as a group have the responsibility to not only\ncommunicate amongst ourselves, but also with others through print media.\n\nA well-orchestrated and technically oriented analysis of life science\nvariables required to support long-duration spaceflight (like long\nexpenditions to the moon or Mars) would be entertaining and educational\nto the general public. The objective of such an effort would be to \ncompile resources and publications from accepted scientific and technical\njournals which would address each major life science area. In addition,\nideas for further research and development could be put forward for\nthe general public to ponder...allowing the general public to take\npart in the excitement of exploration.\n\nIndividuals interested should be willing to devote an hour per week\nto running literature searches and finding journal articles. In addition,\nwe need to obtain the assistance of personnel from within the halls\nof NASA and industry.\n\nI have appreciated the positive responses to date and I am personally\neager to start this project. Perhaps we could start with debate regarding\nhow best to grade the viability of various technologies for application\nto spaceflight.", "Archive-name: space/diff\n\nDIFFS SINCE LAST FAQ POSTING (IN POSTING ORDER)\n\n(These are hand-edited context diffs; do not attempt to use them to patch\nold copies of the FAQ).\n\n===================================================================\ndiff -t -c -r1.18 FAQ.intro\n*** /tmp/,RCSt1a06400\tThu Apr 1 14:47:22 1993\n--- FAQ.intro\tThu Apr 1 14:46:55 1993\n***************\n*** 101,107 ****\n\t\t NASA Langley (Technical Reports)\n\t\t NASA Spacelink\n\t\t National Space Science Data Center\n-\t\t Space And Planetary Image Facility\n\t\t Space Telescope Science Institute Electronic Info. Service\n\t\t Starcat\n\t\t Astronomical Databases\n--- 101,106 ----\n***************\n*** 130,135 ****\n--- 129,135 ----\n\t LLNL \"great exploration\"\n\t Lunar Prospector\n\t Lunar science and activities\n+\t Orbiting Earth satellite histories\n\t Spacecraft models\n\t Rocket propulsion\n\t Spacecraft design\n\n===================================================================\ndiff -t -c -r1.18 FAQ.net\n*** /tmp/,RCSt1a06405\tThu Apr 1 14:47:24 1993\n--- FAQ.net\tThu Apr 1 14:46:57 1993\n***************\n*** 58,63 ****\n--- 58,67 ----\n elements are sent out on the list from Dr. Kelso, JSC, and other sources\n as they are released. Email to elements-request@telesoft.com to join.\n\n+ GPS Digest is a moderated list for discussion of the Global Positioning\n+ System and other satellite navigation positioning systems. Email to\n+ gps-request@esseye.si.com to join.\n+\n Space-investors is a list for information relevant to investing in\n space-related companies. Email Vincent Cate (vac@cs.cmu.edu) to join.\n\n***************\n*** 223,227 ****\n--- 227,241 ----\n 1030. If in fact you should should learn of unauthorized access, contact\n NASA personnel.\n\n+ Claims have been made on this news group about fraud and waste. None\n+ have ever been substantiated to any significant degree. Readers\n+ detecting Fraud, Waste, Abuse, or Mismanagement should contact the NASA\n+ Inspector General (24-hours) at 800-424-9183 (can be anonymous) or write\n+\n+\t NASA\n+\t Inspector General\n+\t P.O. Box 23089\n+\t L'enfant Plaza Station\n+\t Washington DC 20024\n\n NEXT: FAQ #3/15 - Online (and some offline) sources of images, data, etc.\n\n===================================================================\ndiff -t -c -r1.18 FAQ.data\n*** /tmp/,RCSt1a06410\tThu Apr 1 14:47:26 1993\n--- FAQ.data\tThu Apr 1 14:46:54 1993\n***************\n*** 216,237 ****\n\t Telephone: (301) 286-6695\n\n\t Email address: request@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov\n-\n-\n- SPACE AND PLANETARY IMAGE FACILITY\n-\n- Available 24 hours a day via anonymous FTP from pioneer.unm.edu. Has\n- approximately 150 CD-ROM's full of imagery, raw, and tabular data. To\n- start, get the file:\n-\n-\t pioneer.unm.edu:pub/info/beginner-info\n-\n- This will hopefully give you all of the information you need to get data\n- from their machine. beginner-info has been translated to other\n- languages, you should look inside pub/info for the particular language\n- that meets your needs.\n-\n- Contact help@pioneer.unm.edu.\n\n\n SPACE TELESCOPE SCIENCE INSTITUTE ELECTRONIC INFORMATION SERVICE\n--- 216,221 ----\n\n===================================================================\ndiff -t -c -r1.18 FAQ.math\n*** /tmp/,RCSt1a06415\tThu Apr 1 14:47:28 1993\n--- FAQ.math\tThu Apr 1 14:46:56 1993\n***************\n*** 60,65 ****\n--- 60,71 ----\n\t Gives series to compute positions accurate to 1 arc minute for a\n\t period + or - 300 years from now. Pluto is included but stated to\n\t have an accuracy of only about 15 arc minutes.\n+\n+ _Multiyear Interactive Computer Almanac_ (MICA), produced by the US\n+ Naval Observatory. Valid for years 1990-1999. $55 ($80 outside US).\n+ Available for IBM (order #PB93-500163HDV) or Macintosh (order\n+ #PB93-500155HDV). From the NTIS sales desk, (703)-487-4650. I believe\n+ this is intended to replace the USNO's Interactive Computer Ephemeris.\n\n _Interactive Computer Ephemeris_ (from the US Naval Observatory)\n distributed on IBM-PC floppy disks, $35 (Willmann-Bell). Covers dates\n\n===================================================================\ndiff -t -c -r1.18 FAQ.references\n*** /tmp/,RCSt1a06420\tThu Apr 1 14:47:30 1993\n--- FAQ.references\tThu Apr 1 14:46:59 1993\n***************\n*** 93,100 ****\n US Naval Observatory\n\t 202-653-1079 (USNO Bulletin Board via modem)\n\t 202-653-1507 General\n-\t 202-653-1545 Nautical Almanac Office (info on the Interactive\n-\t Computer Ephemeris)\n\n Willmann-Bell\n P.O. Box 35025\n--- 93,98 ----\n***************\n*** 138,151 ****\n SDI's SSRT (Single Stage Rocket Technology) project has funded a\n suborbital technology demonstrator called DC-X that should fly in\n mid-1993. Further development towards an operational single-stage to\n! orbit vehicle is uncertain at present; for considerably more detail on\n! the SSRT program, get the document\n\n!\t ames.arc.nasa.gov:pub/SPACE/FAQ/DeltaClipper\n\n! by anonymous FTP or through the email server.\n\n\n HOW TO NAME A STAR AFTER A PERSON\n\n Official names are decided by committees of the International\n--- 136,151 ----\n SDI's SSRT (Single Stage Rocket Technology) project has funded a\n suborbital technology demonstrator called DC-X that should fly in\n mid-1993. Further development towards an operational single-stage to\n! orbit vehicle (called Delta Clipper) is uncertain at present.\n\n! An collection of pictures and files relating to DC-X is available by\n! anonymous FTP or email server in the directory\n\n!\t bongo.cc.utexas.edu:pub/delta-clipper\n\n+ Chris W. Johnson (chrisj@emx.cc.utexas.edu) maintains the archive.\n\n+\n HOW TO NAME A STAR AFTER A PERSON\n\n Official names are decided by committees of the International\n***************\n*** 223,228 ****\n--- 223,236 ----\n University Press, 1970. Information about the Lunar Orbiter missions,\n including maps of the coverage of the lunar nearside and farside by\n various Orbiters.\n+\n+\n+ ORBITING EARTH SATELLITE HISTORIES\n+\n+ A list of Earth orbiting satellites (that are still in orbit) is\n+ available by anonymous FTP in:\n+\n+\t ames.arc.nasa.gov:pub/SPACE/FAQ/Satellites\n\n\n SPACECRAFT MODELS\n\n===================================================================\ndiff -t -c -r1.18 FAQ.addresses\n*** /tmp/,RCSt1a06435\tThu Apr 1 14:47:34 1993\n--- FAQ.addresses\tThu Apr 1 14:46:51 1993\n***************\n*** 75,80 ****\n--- 75,85 ----\n\t the latter, an SF 171 is useless. Employees are Caltech employees,\n\t contractors, and for the most part have similar responsibilities.\n\t They offer an alternative to funding after other NASA Centers.\n+\n+\t A fact sheet and description of JPL is available by anonymous\n+\t FTP in\n+\n+\t ames.arc.nasa.gov:pub/SPACE/FAQ/JPLDescription\n\n NASA Johnson Manned Space Center (JSC)\n Houston, TX 77058\n\n===================================================================\ndiff -t -c -r1.18 FAQ.new_probes\n*** /tmp/,RCSt1a06450\tThu Apr 1 14:47:38 1993\n--- FAQ.new_probes\tThu Apr 1 14:46:58 1993\n***************\n*** 8,13 ****\n--- 8,19 ----\n team, ISAS/NASDA launch schedules, press kits.\n\n\n+ ASUKA (ASTRO-D) - ISAS (Japan) X-ray astronomy satellite, launched into\n+ Earth orbit on 2/20/93. Equipped with large-area wide-wavelength (1-20\n+ Angstrom) X-ray telescope, X-ray CCD cameras, and imaging gas\n+ scintillation proportional counters.\n+\n+\n CASSINI - Saturn orbiter and Titan atmosphere probe. Cassini is a joint\n NASA/ESA project designed to accomplish an exploration of the Saturnian\n system with its Cassini Saturn Orbiter and Huygens Titan Probe. Cassini\n***************\n*** 98,115 ****\n\n\n MAGELLAN - Venus radar mapping mission. Has mapped almost the entire\n! surface at high resolution. Currently (11/92) in mapping cycle 4,\n! collecting a global gravity map.\n\n\n MARS OBSERVER - Mars orbiter including 1.5 m/pixel resolution camera.\n! Launched 9/24/92 on a Titan III/TOS booster. MO is currently (3/93) in\n transit to Mars, arriving on 8/24/93. Operations will start 11/93 for\n one martian year (687 days).\n\n\n! TOPEX/Poseidon - Joint US/French Earth observing satellite, launched in\n! August 1992 on an Ariane 4 booster. The primary objective of the\n TOPEX/POSEIDON project is to make precise and accurate global\n observations of the sea level for several years, substantially\n increasing understanding of global ocean dynamics. The satellite also\n--- 104,121 ----\n\n\n MAGELLAN - Venus radar mapping mission. Has mapped almost the entire\n! surface at high resolution. Currently (4/93) collecting a global gravity\n! map.\n\n\n MARS OBSERVER - Mars orbiter including 1.5 m/pixel resolution camera.\n! Launched 9/25/92 on a Titan III/TOS booster. MO is currently (4/93) in\n transit to Mars, arriving on 8/24/93. Operations will start 11/93 for\n one martian year (687 days).\n\n\n! TOPEX/Poseidon - Joint US/French Earth observing satellite, launched\n! 8/10/92 on an Ariane 4 booster. The primary objective of the\n TOPEX/POSEIDON project is to make precise and accurate global\n observations of the sea level for several years, substantially\n increasing understanding of global ocean dynamics. The satellite also\n\n===================================================================\ndiff -t -c -r1.18 FAQ.astronaut\n*** /tmp/,RCSt1a06465\tThu Apr 1 14:47:43 1993\n--- FAQ.astronaut\tThu Apr 1 14:46:52 1993\n***************\n*** 162,174 ****\n specific standards:\n\n\t Distant visual acuity:\n!\t\t20/100 or better uncorrected,\n\t\tcorrectable to 20/20, each eye.\n\n\t Blood pressure:\n\t\t140/90 measured in sitting position.\n\n! 3. Height between 60 and 76 inches.\n\n Pilot Astronaut Candidate:\n\n--- 162,174 ----\n specific standards:\n\n\t Distant visual acuity:\n!\t\t20/150 or better uncorrected,\n\t\tcorrectable to 20/20, each eye.\n\n\t Blood pressure:\n\t\t140/90 measured in sitting position.\n\n! 3. Height between 58.5 and 76 inches.", "\nOr just stick 'em on sci.space.news every 28-30 days? \n\n", "\n\nOf course,\n\n\tHow many government projects after Using PERT, GANT, C.P.M.s\nProcess flow diagrams, Level 5 software projects.... actually\ncome in on schedule and under Cost. I know the GAO determined\nthat 80% of all NASA projects miss their budgets due to failing\nto adequately measure engineering developement costs. \n\nMe, I am allin favor of Government R&D. I thought Bell Labs was one of the best \nto do research. I don't think the government should pour money\ninto any one sector, but should engage in projects which naturally\npush the state of the art. \n\nTHings like High tech construction projects, apollo was worth it for the doing. Running hte national labs. The SSC is grossly overweight, but\nis a reasonable project at a lower cost. \n\nUnfortunately support for solo investigators is direly neglected.\n\nMaybe what they should do, is throw out much of the process and just tell\nnew PH'ds, you get a 1 time grant of $50,000.00 If you produce, you\ncan qualify for other grants. If you don't you never get in again.\n\nTHis way young people get a shot at reserach, and older stale \nscientists don't dominate the process.", "\n\tI am puzzled by the term \"concept.\" Drag free may already have\nbeen flown. It was the idea behind putting up a spacecraft that would\nmore accurately respond to motions from the Earth's gravity field and\nignore drag. It was proposed many years ago and involved a ball\nfloating between sensors whose job it was to signal to little\nadjustment jets to keep the ball away from them. The ball itself would\nthen be in a drag free condition and respond only to gravity\nanisotropies, whereas the spacecraft itself would be continuously\nadjusting its position to compensate for drag.\n", "I know it's only wishful thinking, with our current President,\nbut this is from last fall:\n\n \"Is there life on Mars? Maybe not now. But there will be.\"\n -- Daniel S. Goldin, NASA Administrator, 24 August 1992\n\n-- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office\n kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (713) 483-4368", "What fraction of the NASA workforce is civil servant \nas opposed to contractor and what are the rules on\nreduction in work force for civil servants?\n\neg, if say the shuttle program is terminated, how\nmuch is payroll reduced and how?", "\n\nI was suggesting that the minority of professional and amateur astronomers\nhave the right to a dark, uncluttered night sky.\n\nLet me give you an example. When you watch TV, they have commercials to pay\nfor the programming. You accept that as part of watching. If you don't like\nit, you can turn it off. If you want to view the night sky, and there is a\nfloating billboard out there, you can't turn it off. It's the same \nreasoning that limits billboards in scenic areas.\n\nGeorge.\n\n\tIt's called a democracy. The majority rules. sorry.\nIf ytou don't like it, I suggest you modify the constitution to include\na constitutional right to Dark Skies. The theory of government\nhere is that the majority rules, except in the nature of fundamental\ncivil rights.\n\nI say: \n\tAny reasonably in-depth perusal of American history will show\n\tyou that many WASPs have continued the practices of prejudice,\n\tdiscrimination, and violence against others of different\n\traces, religions, and beliefs, despite the law.\n\nIf you really are annoyed, get some legislation\nto create a dark sky zone, where in all light emissions are protected\nin the zone. Kind of like the national radio quiet zone. Did you\nknow about that? near teh Radio telescope observatory in West virginia,\nthey have a 90?????? mile EMCON zone. Theoretically they can prevent\nyou from running light AC motors, like air conditioners and Vacuums.\nIn practice, they use it mostly to control large radio users.\n\nI say:\nWhat I'm objecting to here is a floating billboard that, presumably,\nwould move around in the sky. I, for one, am against legislating\nat all. I just wish that people had a bit of common courtesy, and\nwould consider how their greed for money impacts the more ethereal and\naesthetic values that make us human. This includes the need for wild\nand unspoiled things, including the night sky.\n\nGeorge", "\nGulp.\n\n[Disclaimer: This opinion is mine and does not represent the views of\nFermilab, Universities Research Association, the Department of Energy,\nor the 49th Ward Regular Science Fiction Organization.]\n ", "\n\nHow big of a lightning rod, would you need for protection?\nand would you need jupiter as a ground plane.", "\n\nAre you volunteering? :)\n\n\nWill NASA have \"available landing sites\" in the Russian Republic, now that they\nare Our Friends and Comrades?\n\n", "\n\n\n\nI'll vote for anything where they don't feel constrained to use stupid\nand ugly PC phrases to replace words like 'manned'. If they think\nthey need to do that, they're more than likely engaging in 'politics\nand public relations as usual' rather than seriously wanting to\nactually get into space. So that eliminates Option \"A\" from the\nrunning. What do they call a manned station in Option \"C\"?\n\n[I'm actually about half serious about that. People should be more\nconcerned with grammatical correctness and actually getting a working\nstation than they are with 'Political Correctness' of terminology.]\n\n\n-- \n\"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live\n in the real world.\" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden", "\nDFW was designed with the STS in mind (which really mean very little). Much of\ntheir early PR material had scenes with a shuttle landing and two or three\nothers pulled up to gates. I guess they were trying to stress how advanced the\nairport was.\n\nFor Dallas types: Imagine the fit Grapevine and Irving would be having if the\nshuttle WAS landing at DFW. (For the rest, they are currently having some power\nstruggles between the airport and surrounding cities).", "\nThey can be detached in an emergency. But expensive hardware is not thrown\naway casually (bearing in mind that nobody knew the design was defective).\nIf the deployment crew had found some nasty flaw -- the lid failing to open,\nfor example -- it would have been a bit embarrassing to have to throw the\nsolar arrays away to get the thing back in the payload bay.", "STK1203@VAX003.STOCKTON.EDU Pontificated: \n\nOne of the sci.space FAQ postings deal with this. It's archived\nsomewhere. Perhaps someone can post where it is (I don'\nremember). \n", "Okay here is what I have so far:\n\nHave a group (any size, preferibly small, but?) send a human being to the moon,\nset up a habitate and have the human(s) spend one earth year on the moon. Does\nthat mean no resupply or ?? \n\nNeed to find atleast $1billion for prize money.\n\nContest open to different classes of participants.\n\nNew Mexico State has semi-challenged University of Alaska (any branch) to put a\nteam together and to do it..\nAny other University/College/Institute of Higher Learning wish to make a\ncounter challenge or challenge another school? Say it here.\n\nI like the idea of having atleast a russian team.\n\n\nSome prefer using new technology, others old or ..\n\nThe basic idea of the New Moon Race is like the Solar Car Race acrossed\nAustralia.. Atleast in that basic vein of endevour..\n\nAny other suggestions?", "\nBear in mind that a lot of the Vandenberg launch traffic is military and\nat least semi-secret. They aren't interested in publicizing it beforehand.", " Do we want to 'create jobs'? or do we want jobs created that are productive\n in our supply/demand economy? If your answer is the former then we can\n just round up all jobless people and pay them to build sandcastles in\n the desert. If you answer the latter then I fail to see how another\n bureaucracy produces anything.", "\t\t\t\t\t^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nI am sure your numbers are far better then mine. As i said above,\ni don't have exact numbers.\n\n\nHow different would the contamination threat of a small manuevering tug\nbe from that of the Shuttle and it's OMS engines??????\n\nI know that no small manuevering tug exists, but maybe one could\nsoup up a Bus 1. Does anyone out there have the de-clasified\nspecs on hte BUS 1? would it be able to provide enough control\nforce to balance the HST, and still have the rocket thrust\nto hurl her into a decent high orbit?\n\n\nSorry, that should be intrument pointing.\n\n\nPlus, if the second box gets fritzy, you could be in shitter ville\nreal fast.\n\n\nThe problem is no-one seems to have the exact numbers. When the mission\nwas planned originally at 3 spacewalks, and 3 astronauts, there was\nenormous concern over the mass margins for the flight. THey\nhave now planned for 5 EVA's, an 11 day mission and have 2 reserve\nEVA's and an emergency EVA. Obviously that is coming from somewhere.\nMy guess is the OMS burn fuel, or re-boost margin. \n\nI just figured, if GOldin wants to really, prove out faster, cheaper\nbetter, have some of the whiz kids slap together an expendable\nspace manuevering tug out of a BUs1, and use that for the re-boost.\nit has to be better then using the Discovery as a tow truck.", "\nI'd be willing to bet that a majority of the cost difference could be\naccounted for by the AF's requirement for superfluous 2167 documentation, 5\nor 6 huge requirements and design reviews, travel expenses flying personnel\naround to meetings, and over specifying the hardware. I doubt that the\nactual fabrication cost in materials and labor would be very different from\nSDIO's costs.", "\nIf raw materials where to cost enough that getting them from space would\nbe cost effective then the entire world economy would colapse long\nbefore the space mines could be built.\n\n Allen\n", "\n\nThis is true, but long-standing tradition has been to keep commercial\nadvertising in the biz.* hierarchy.", "fc> Modern, \nfc> ground-based, visible light astronomy (what these proposed\nfc> orbiting billboards would upset) is already a dying field: The\nfc> opacity and distortions caused by the atmosphere itself have\nfc> driven most of the field to use radio, far infrared or space-based\nfc> telescopes. \n\n Here's one radio astronomer quite concerned about \n radio-frequency interference from portable telephones, etc.\n\n", "\nIndeed, the sky doesn't look much like a black body if you look carefully\nenough; in particular, its temperature at radio frequencies is quite a\nbit higher than you would see from a black body. Morgan&Gordon's fat\n\"Communications Satellite Handbook\" has a graph of sky temperature vs.\nwavelength, in fact, for communications design.\n\nHowever, in terms of energy content, the RF frequencies are negligible.\nFor thermal purposes, at very large distances from the Sun the sky\nlooks like a black body at 3.5K (Allen, \"Astrophysical Quantities\").\nI haven't found a number for non-large distances, since solar radiation\ntends to be something you can't just ignore :-), but M&G says \"about 4K\"\nin a brief discussion of why solar radiation dominates the problem.", "\nFirst, what the fuck is NASA doing wasting my tax dollars doing\npolicy papers on stuff far outside of their purvew/mission?\n \nSecond, this isn't a problem of economics. This is a problem of\nthe incremental accumulation of police-state powers by our government.\n \nHow, exactly, do you put a price on the loss of freedom of a society?\nMaybe use the dollars/life lost calculations for the extra people\nkilled by the gov. The pain and suffering cases for those tortured.\nThe dollars/life lost caused by the inevitable collapse of the economy,\nand all the secondary effects of diseases, diet, etc. Plus, the\ninevitable collapse of the economy as the gov controls it, becomes \ncorrupt, etc.\n\nDo us a favor. Resign rather than right this paper for NASA. Go\ndo useful work for the society.\n\nlew", "\nHow about the discussion of the STS Tether experiment. Ran forward,\nit would suck energy from the Earth's magnetic field, while trivially\nslowing the Shuttle. It could also have run backward -- if they ran \nelectricity through the tether the other way, it would have trivially\npropelled the Shuttle faster.\n\nBut an even better example comes to mind. There's this electronics guy,\nsomeone like Craig Anderton or Don Lancaster. Ten years ago he wrote about\nan invention of his. He could take a light-detector, run current through\nit at about a hundred times its rating, and it would glow. He got legal\nrights to this design of a combination \"fiber optic emitter/receiver\". This\nturned out to be the basic unit of ATT's (I think) plan to bring Brazil's\ncommunications system into the 21st century. (The article was mostly about\nhis legal wranglings with the company that eventually got him well-compensated\nfor his invention.)", "\nThere was a recession, and none of the potential entrants could raise any\nmoney. The race organizers were actually supposed to be handling part of\nthe fundraising, but the less said about that the better.", "I have received my copies of Cosmonautics 1990 and\nCosmonautics 1991, as well as Soviet Space 1990 and Space\nStation [MIR] Handbook from Aerospace Ambassadors with no\nproblem.\n I'm getting ready to FAX them some material in Huntsville,\nand I'll include a printout of your inquiry.\n ____________________________________________________________", "\n\n\n\nI would just like to point out that it is much easier to place an\nobject at orbital altitude than it is to place it with orbital\nvelocity. For a target 300 km above the surface of Earth,\nyou need a delta-v of 2.5 km/s. Assuming that rockets with specific\nimpulses of 300 seconds are easy to produce, a rocket with a dry\nweight of 50 kg would require only about 65 kg of fuel+oxidizer.\nA small dispersal charge embedded in about 20 kg of sand or\nbirdshot (depending on the nature of the structure) would be\nthe payload. I am sure the whole project is well within\nthe capability of the amateur rocketry community.\n\nIt sounds like a good Science Fair project--'Reduction\nof Light Pollution Through Applied Ballistics'.\nOr, it could be part of the Challenge Prize being discussed\nhere: $1 billion for the first person to spend 1 year\non the moon, $1 million for the first erradication of\nan orbital eyesore/CCD burner. I wouldpledge $1000\nfor the first person to bring it down, and I am sure\nthere are at least 999 other astronomers, nature lovers,\nor just plain people of good taste who would do likewise.\n\nOf course, a Gerald Bull solution might be simpler.\n(Either the solution Gerald Bull would apply--the use\nof a large caliber gun; or the solution which was applied\nto Gerald Bull--the use of a small caliber gun.)", "The following is what they feed to us..... most has been posted already,\nbut there are a number of items not seen here yet.....\n\nRedesign Activities Update -- Following is the weekly status on redesign,\nbased on information provided by NASA headquarters.\n\nThe station Redesign Team (SRT) provided a detailed status report to the\nAdvisory Committee on the Redesign of the Space Station on April 22. The\nday-long meeting was held in ANSER facilities in Crystal City, VA; topics\ncovered by the SRT included a preliminary mission and goals statement for\nthe space station; science, technology and engineering research; the\nassessment process; and the design approach. Discussions on management\noptions and operations concepts also were held.\n\nThe Design Teams then presented the three options under study:\n\n¥ Option A - Modular Buildup -- Pete Priest presented the A option. Priest\nsaid the team is working to define a station that meets cost goals and has\nidentified three distinct phases of evolution - power station, human tended\nand permanent presence. The team will define the minimum capability needed\nto achieve each phase, the total cost of each phase and the achievable\ncapability for budget levels. The A option uses current or simplified\nFreedom hardware where cost effective and is considering other existing\nsystems such as the so-called \"Bus-1 spacecraft,\" the orbiter and Spacelab.\n\nThe Power Station Capability could be achieved in 3 flights with Freedom\nphoto voltaic modules providing 20 kW of power. 30-day Shuttle/Spacelab\nmissions docked to the power station are assumed for this phase.\n\nHuman Tended Capability would be provided by the addition of the U.S.\nCommon Module Module which adds subsystems and 9 payload racks and docking\nports for ESA and Japanese laboratories. 60-day missions with the orbiter\ndocked to the station are assumed for this phase. Different\noperation/utilization modes are being studied for this phase.\n\n¥ Option B - Freedom Derived -- Mike Griffin presented the status of Option\nB activities. Griffin detailed the evolution of the Freedom-derived option,\nfrom initial Research Capability, to Human-Tended Capability, to Permanent\nHuman Presence Capability, to Two Fault Tolerance, and finally Permanent\nHuman Capability. Griffin also outlined proposed systems changes to the\nbaseline program, with minor changes to the Communications and Tracking\nsystem, Crew Health Care System and ECLSS, and a major change to the Data\nManagement System.\n\nInitial Research Capability would be achieved with 2 flights to 28.5 degree\ninclination (3 flights to 51.6 degrees) and consist of an extended duration\norbiter-Spacelab combination docked to a truss segment with 2 photo voltaic\narrays providing 18.75 kW of power.\n\nHuman-Tended Capability would be achieved in 6 flights and add truss\nsegments and the U.S. lab.\n\nPermanent Human Presence Capability would be achieved in 8 flights with two\norbiters providing habitation and assured crew return.\n\nTwo Fault Tolerance, achieved in 11 flights, would build out the other\nsection of truss with another set of PV modules, thermal control and\npropulsion systems.\n\nThe freedom derived configuration could achieve an International Complete\nstate with 16 flights. Three more flights, to bring up the habitat module,\na third PV array and two Assured Crew Return Vehicles (ACRV) would complete\nthe Permanent Human Capability with International stage.\n\nGriffin told the Redesign Advisory Committee that eliminating hardware\nwould not, by itself, meet budget guidelines for the Freedom derived\noption. Major reductions or deferrals must occur in other areas including\nprogram management, contractor non-hardware, early utilization and\noperations costs, he said.\n\n¥ Option C - Singe Launch Core Station -- Chet Vaughn presented Option C,\nthe Single Launch Core Station concept. A Shuttle external tank and solid\nrocket boosters would be used to launch the station into orbit. Shuttle\nmain engines would be mounted to the tail of the station module for launch\nand jettisoned after ET separation.\n\nThe module, 23 feet in diameter and 92 feet long, would provide 26,000\ncubic feet of pressured volume, separated into 7 \"decks\" connected by a\ncentralized passageway. Seven berthing ports would be located at various\nplaces on the circumference of the module to place the international\nmodules, and other elements. This \"can\" would have two fixed photo voltaic\narrays producing approximately 40 kW of power flying in a solar interial\nattitude.\n\nIn his closing comments to the Redesign Advisory Committee, Bryan O'Connor\nsaid a design freeze would be established for the 3 options on April 26 so\nthat detailed costing of the options can begin. The next meeting with the\nRedesign Advisory Committee will be May 3.\n\nRussian Consultants Arrive in U.S. -- A delegation of 16 Russian space\nexperts arrived in the U.S. on April 21 and briefings to the SRT by members\nof the Russian team began on the 22nd. The group includes Russian Space\nAgency General Director Y. M. Koptev, and V. A. Yatsenko, also of the RSA. \nOthers on the team include representatives from the Ministry of Defense,\nthe Design Bureau SALYUT, the Institute of Biomedical Problems, the\nMinistry of Foreign Affairs, NPO Energia and TsNIJMASH. The Russian team\nbriefed the SRT on environmental control and life support system, docking\nsystems, the Proton launch vehicle, Mir operations and utilization, and the\nSoyuz TM spacecraft.\n\nThe Russian consultants are available to the SRT to assess the capabilities\nof the Mir space station, and the possible use of Mir and other Russian\ncapabilities and systems as part of the space station redesign. They will\nbe available to the SRT through May 5.\n\nManagement and Operations Review Continues -- Work continued in the SRT\nsubgroups. The Management Group under Dr. Walt Brooks is working to\ndevelop a family of options that solve the current problems and build a\nfoundation for the transition to development and operations. Various\nmanagement options have been developed including:\n\n¥ Lead Center with the Center Director in the programmatic chain of\ncommand.\n\n¥ Host Center with the Program Manager reporting directly to an Associate\nAdministrator.\n\n¥ Skunk Works/Dedicated Program Office with a small dedicated co-located\nhand-picked program office.\n\n¥ Combine Space Station with Shuttle, with the space station becoming an\nelement of the current program.\n\n¥ Major Tune Up to Current Organization, with current contracts and\ngeographical distribution maintained but streamlined.\n\nThe Operations Group under Dr. John Cox is building on the work of the\nOperations Phase Assessment Team lead by Gene Kranz of NASA-JSC, which had\nalready begun a comprehensive review of operations and had concluded in its\npreliminary results that significant cost reductions are possible.\n\nAs part of its work, the Operations Group has identified teams of agency\nexperts to develop detailed evaluations of each design in the areas of\nassembly and operations, utilization, maintenance and logistics and testing\nand ground operations.\n\nWhat's in the Week Ahead? -- The Design Support Teams will provide a\ncomprehensive status of their option to the Station Redesign Team on Monday\nand Tuesday at which point the design will be \"frozen\" to begin the\ndetailed cost assessment. Also this week, the team will begin preparing\nfor the next round of discussions with the redesign Advisory Committee, to\nbe held May 3.\n\nDr. Shea Steps Down -- Dr. Joe Shea stepped down as director of the\nStation Redesign Team on April 22 and Bryan O'Connor will take over the\nactivities of the team. Dr. Shea submitted his resignation as assistant\ndeputy administrator for space station analysis, but will continue to serve\nas a special advisory to NASA Administrator Goldin and be available to\nconsult with the SRT. Mr Goldin accepted the resignation so that a request\nfrom Dr. Shea to reduce his workload could be accommodated.\n\nKey Milestones -- The key dates for the SRT as they are currently being\ncarried on the schedule are:\n\nApril 26\nDesign Freeze on Options for Costing\n\nApril 27\nDesign Support Team Present Selected Options to SRT\n\nMay 3\nStatus report to Redesign Advisory Committee\n\nMay 15\nInterim report by Redesign Advisory Committee\n\nJune 7\nFinal report to Redesign Advisory Committee\n", "I'll bet there's a runway nearby.", "Hello. I am looking for a program (or algorithm) that can be used\nto compute sunrise and sunset times.\n\nI would appreciate any advice.", "Another factor against bringing the HST back to Earth is risk of contamination.", "\nApollo was done the hard way, in a big hurry, from a very limited\ntechnology base... and on government contracts. Just doing it privately,\nrather than as a government project, cuts costs by a factor of several.", "This file and other text and image files from JPL missions are\navailable from the JPL Info public access computer site,\nreachable by Internet via anonymous ftp to pubinfo.jpl.nasa.gov\n(128.149.6.2); or by dialup modem to +1 (818) 354-1333, up to\n9600 bits per second, parameters N-8-1.\n-----------------------------------------------------------------\n\nOur Solar System at a Glance\n\nInformation Summary \nPMS 010-A (JPL)\nJune 1991\n\nJPL 410-34-1 6/91\n\nNASA\nNational Aeronautics and Space Administration\n\nJet Propulsion Laboratory\nCalifornia Institue of Technology\nPasadena, California\n\n\nFor a printed copy of this publication contact the public mail\noffice at the NASA center in your geographic region.\n\n\n\nINTRODUCTION\n\n From our small world we have gazed upon the cosmic ocean for\nuntold thousands of years. Ancient astronomers observed points of\nlight that appeared to move among the stars. They called these\nobjects planets, meaning wanderers, and named them after Roman\ndeities -- Jupiter, king of the gods; Mars, the god of war;\nMercury, messenger of the gods; Venus, the god of love and\nbeauty, and Saturn, father of Jupiter and god of agriculture. The\nstargazers also observed comets with sparkling tails, and meteors\nor shooting stars apparently falling from the sky.\n\n Science flourished during the European Renaissance.\nFundamental physical laws governing planetary motion were\ndiscovered, and the orbits of the planets around the Sun were\ncalculated. In the 17th century, astronomers pointed a new device\ncalled the telescope at the heavens and made startling\ndiscoveries.\n\n But the years since 1959 have amounted to a golden age of\nsolar system exploration. Advancements in rocketry after World\nWar II enabled our machines to break the grip of Earth's gravity\nand travel to the Moon and to other planets.\n\n The United States has sent automated spacecraft, then\nhuman-crewed expeditions, to explore the Moon. Our automated\nmachines have orbited and landed on Venus and Mars; explored the\nSun's environment; observed comets, and made close-range surveys\nwhile flying past Mercury, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune.\n\n These travelers brought a quantum leap in our knowledge and\nunderstanding of the solar system. Through the electronic sight\nand other \"senses\" of our automated spacecraft, color and\ncomplexion have been given to worlds that for centuries appeared\nto Earth-bound eyes as fuzzy disks or indistinct points of light.\nAnd dozens of previously unknown objects have been discovered.\n\n Future historians will likely view these pioneering flights\nthrough the solar system as some of the most remarkable\nachievements of the 20th century.\n \n\nAUTOMATED SPACECRAFT\n\n The National Aeronautics and Space Administration's (NASA's)\nautomated spacecraft for solar system exploration come in many\nshapes and sizes. While they are designed to fulfill separate and\nspecific mission objectives, the craft share much in common.\n\n Each spacecraft consists of various scientific instruments\nselected for a particular mission, supported by basic subsystems\nfor electrical power, trajectory and orientation control, as well\nas for processing data and communicating with Earth.\n\n Electrical power is required to operate the spacecraft\ninstruments and systems. NASA uses both solar energy from arrays\nof photovoltaic cells and small nuclear generators to power its\nsolar system missions. Rechargeable batteries are employed for\nbackup and supplemental power.\n\n Imagine that a spacecraft has successfully journeyed\nmillions of miles through space to fly but one time near a\nplanet, only to have its cameras and other sensing instruments\npointed the wrong way as it speeds past the target! To help\nprevent such a mishap, a subsystem of small thrusters is used to\ncontrol spacecraft.\n\n The thrusters are linked with devices that maintain a\nconstant gaze at selected stars. Just as Earth's early seafarers\nused the stars to navigate the oceans, spacecraft use stars to\nmaintain their bearings in space. With the subsystem locked onto\nfixed points of reference, flight controllers can keep a\nspacecraft's scientific instruments pointed at the target body\nand the craft's communications antennas pointed toward Earth. The\nthrusters can also be used to fine-tune the flight path and speed\nof the spacecraft to ensure that a target body is encountered at\nthe planned distance and on the proper trajectory.\n\n Between 1959 and 1971, NASA spacecraft were dispatched to\nstudy the Moon and the solar environment; they also scanned the\ninner planets other than Earth -- Mercury, Venus and Mars. These\nthree worlds, and our own, are known as the terrestrial planets\nbecause they share a solid-rock composition.\n\n For the early planetary reconnaissance missions, NASA\nemployed a highly successful series of spacecraft called the\nMariners. Their flights helped shape the planning of later\nmissions. Between 1962 and 1975, seven Mariner missions conducted\nthe first surveys of our planetary neighbors in space.\n\n All of the Mariners used solar panels as their primary power\nsource. The first and the final versions of the spacecraft had\ntwo wings covered with photovoltaic cells. Other Mariners were\nequipped with four solar panels extending from their octagonal\nbodies.\n\n Although the Mariners ranged from the Mariner 2 Venus\nspacecraft, weighing in at 203 kilograms (447 pounds), to the\nMariner 9 Mars Orbiter, weighing in at 974 kilograms (2,147\npounds), their basic design remained quite similar throughout the\nprogram. The Mariner 5 Venus spacecraft, for example, had\noriginally been a backup for the Mariner 4 Mars flyby. The\nMariner 10 spacecraft sent to Venus and Mercury used components\nleft over from the Mariner 9 Mars Orbiter program.\n\n In 1972, NASA launched Pioneer 10, a Jupiter spacecraft.\nInterest was shifting to four of the outer planets -- Jupiter,\nSaturn, Uranus and Neptune -- giant balls of dense gas quite\ndifferent from the terrestrial worlds we had already surveyed.\n\n Four NASA spacecraft in all -- two Pioneers and two Voyagers\n-- were sent in the 1970s to tour the outer regions of our solar\nsystem. Because of the distances involved, these travelers took\nanywhere from 20 months to 12 years to reach their destinations.\nBarring faster spacecraft, they will eventually become the first\nhuman artifacts to journey to distant stars. Because the Sun's\nlight becomes so faint in the outer solar system, these travelers\ndo not use solar power but instead operate on electricity\ngenerated by heat from the decay of radioisotopes.\n\n NASA also developed highly specialized spacecraft to revisit\nour neighbors Mars and Venus in the middle and late 1970s. Twin\nViking Landers were equipped to serve as seismic and weather\nstations and as biology laboratories. Two advanced orbiters --\ndescendants of the Mariner craft -- carried the Viking Landers\nfrom Earth and then studied martian features from above.\n\n Two drum-shaped Pioneer spacecraft visited Venus in 1978.\nThe Pioneer Venus Orbiter was equipped with a radar instrument\nthat allowed it to \"see\" through the planet's dense cloud cover\nto study surface features. The Pioneer Venus Multiprobe carried\nfour probes that were dropped through the clouds. The probes and\nthe main body -- all of which contained scientific instruments --\nradioed information about the planet's atmosphere during their\ndescent toward the surface.\n\n A new generation of automated spacecraft -- including\nMagellan, Galileo, Ulysses, Mars Observer, the Comet\nRendezvous/Asteroid Flyby (CRAF) and Cassini -- is being\ndeveloped and sent out into the solar system to make detailed\nexaminations that will increase our understanding of our\nneighborhood and our own planet.\n \n\nThe Sun\n\n A discussion of the objects in the solar system must start\nwith the Sun. The Sun dwarfs the other bodies, representing\napproximately 99.86 percent of all the mass in the solar system;\nall of the planets, moons, asteroids, comets, dust and gas add up\nto only about 0.14 percent. This 0.14 percent represents the\nmaterial left over from the Sun's formation. One hundred and nine\nEarths would be required to fit across the Sun's disk, and its\ninterior could hold over 1.3 million Earths.\n\n As a star, the Sun generates energy through the process of\nfusion. The temperature at the Sun's core is 15 million degrees\nCelsius (27 million degrees Fahrenheit), and the pressure there\nis 340 billion times Earth's air pressure at sea level. The Sun's\nsurface temperature of 5,500 degrees Celsius (10,000 degrees\nFahrenheit) seems almost chilly compared to its core-temperature.\nAt the solar core, hydrogen can fuse into helium, producing\nenergy. The Sun also produces a strong magnetic field and streams\nof charged particles, both extending far beyond the planets.\n\n The Sun appears to have been active for 4.6 billion years\nand has enough fuel to go on for another five billion years or\nso. At the end of its life, the Sun will start to fuse helium\ninto heavier elements and begin to swell up, ultimately growing\nso large that it will swallow Earth. After a billion years as a\n\"red giant,\" it will suddenly collapse into a \"white dwarf\" --\nthe final end product of a star like ours. It may take a trillion\nyears to cool off completely.\n\n Many spacecraft have explored the Sun's environment, but\nnone have gotten any closer to its surface than approximately\ntwo-thirds of the distance from Earth to the Sun. Pioneers 5-11,\nthe Pioneer Venus Orbiter, Voyagers 1 and 2 and other spacecraft\nhave all sampled the solar environment. The Ulysses spacecraft,\nlaunched on October 6, 1990, is a joint solar mission of NASA and\nthe European Space Agency. After using Jupiter's gravity to\nchange its trajectory, Ulysses will fly over the Sun's polar\nregions during 1994 and 1995 and will perform a wide range of\nstudies using nine onboard scientific instruments.\n\n We are fortunate that the Sun is exactly the way it is. If\nit were different in almost any way, life would almost certainly\nnever have developed on Earth.\n \n\nMercury\n\n Obtaining the first close-up views of Mercury was the\nprimary objective of the Mariner 10 spacecraft, launched on\nNovember 3, 1973, from Kennedy Space Center in Florida. After a\njourney of nearly five months, which included a flyby of Venus,\nthe spacecraft passed within 703 kilometers (437 miles) of the\nsolar system's innermost planet on March 29, 1974.\n\n Until Mariner 10, little was known about Mercury. Even the\nbest telescopic views from Earth showed Mercury as an indistinct\nobject lacking any surface detail. The planet is so close to the\nSun that it is usually lost in solar glare. When the planet is\nvisible on Earth's horizon just after sunset or before dawn, it\nis obscured by the haze and dust in our atmosphere. Only radar\ntelescopes gave any hint of Mercury's surface conditions prior to\nthe voyage of Mariner 10.\n\n The photographs Mariner 10 radioed back to Earth revealed an\nancient, heavily cratered surface, closely resembling our own\nMoon. The pictures also showed huge cliffs crisscrossing the\nplanet. These apparently were created when Mercury's interior\ncooled and shrank, buckling the planet's crust. The cliffs are as\nhigh as 3 kilometers (2 miles) and as long as 500 kilometers (310\nmiles).\n\n Instruments on Mariner 10 discovered that Mercury has a weak\nmagnetic field and a trace of atmosphere -- a trillionth the\ndensity of Earth's atmosphere and composed chiefly of argon, neon\nand helium. When the planet's orbit takes it closest to the Sun,\nsurface temperatures range from 467 degrees Celsius (872 degrees\nFahrenheit) on Mercury's sunlit side to -183 degrees Celsius\n(-298 degrees Fahrenheit) on the dark side. This range in surface\ntemperature -- 650 degrees Celsius (1,170 degrees Fahrenheit) --\nis the largest for a single body in the solar system. Mercury\nliterally bakes and freezes at the same time.\n\n Days and nights are long on Mercury. The combination of a\nslow rotation relative to the stars (59 Earth days) and a rapid\nrevolution around the Sun (88 Earth days) means that one Mercury\nsolar day takes 176 Earth days or two Mercury years -- the time\nit takes the innermost planet to complete two orbits around the\nSun! \n\n Mercury appears to have a crust of light silicate rock like\nthat of Earth. Scientists believe Mercury has a heavy iron-rich\ncore making up slightly less than half of its volume. That would\nmake Mercury's core larger, proportionally, than the Moon's core\nor those of any of the planets.\n\n After the initial Mercury encounter, Mariner 10 made two\nadditional flybys -- on September 21, 1974, and March 16, 1975 --\nbefore control gas used to orient the spacecraft was exhausted\nand the mission was concluded. Each flyby took place at the same\nlocal Mercury time when the identical half of the planet was\nilluminated; as a result, we still have not seen one-half of the\nplanet's surface.\n \n\nVenus\n\n Veiled by dense cloud cover, Venus -- our nearest planetary\nneighbor -- was the first planet to be explored. The Mariner 2\nspacecraft, launched on August 27, 1962, was the first of more\nthan a dozen successful American and Soviet missions to study the\nmysterious planet. As spacecraft flew by or orbited Venus,\nplunged into the atmosphere or gently landed on Venus' surface,\nromantic myths and speculations about our neighbor were laid to\nrest.\n\n On December 14, 1962, Mariner 2 passed within 34,839\nkilometers (21,648 miles) of Venus and became the first\nspacecraft to scan another planet; onboard instruments measured\nVenus for 42 minutes. Mariner 5, launched in June 1967, flew much\ncloser to the planet. Passing within 4,094 kilometers (2,544\nmiles) of Venus on the second American flyby, Mariner 5's\ninstruments measured the planet's magnetic field, ionosphere,\nradiation belts and temperatures. On its way to Mercury, Mariner\n10 flew by Venus and transmitted ultraviolet pictures to Earth\nshowing cloud circulation patterns in the Venusian atmosphere.\n\n In the spring and summer of 1978, two spacecraft were\nlaunched to further unravel the mysteries of Venus. On December 4\nof the same year, the Pioneer Venus Orbiter became the first\nspacecraft placed in orbit around the planet.\n\n Five days later, the five separate components making up the\nsecond spacecraft -- the Pioneer Venus Multiprobe -- entered the\nVenusian atmosphere at different locations above the planet. The\nfour small, independent probes and the main body radioed\natmospheric data back to Earth during their descent toward the\nsurface. Although designed to examine the atmosphere, one of the\nprobes survived its impact with the surface and continued to\ntransmit data for another hour.\n\n Venus resembles Earth in size, physical composition and\ndensity more closely than any other known planet. However,\nspacecraft have discovered significant differences as well. For\nexample, Venus' rotation (west to east) is retrograde (backward)\ncompared to the east-to-west spin of Earth and most of the other\nplanets.\n\n Approximately 96.5 percent of Venus' atmosphere (95 times as\ndense as Earth's) is carbon dioxide. The principal constituent of\nEarth's atmosphere is nitrogen. Venus' atmosphere acts like a\ngreenhouse, permitting solar radiation to reach the surface but\ntrapping the heat that would ordinarily be radiated back into\nspace. As a result, the planet's average surface temperature is\n482 degrees Celsius (900 degrees Fahrenheit), hot enough to melt\nlead.\n\n A radio altimeter on the Pioneer Venus Orbiter provided the\nfirst means of seeing through the planet's dense cloud cover and\ndetermining surface features over almost the entire planet.\nNASA's Magellan spacecraft, launched on May 5, 1989, has been in\norbit around Venus since August 10, 1990. The spacecraft uses\nradar-mapping techniques to provide ultrahigh-resolution images\nof the surface.\n\n Magellan has revealed a landscape dominated by volcanic\nfeatures, faults and impact craters. Huge areas of the surface\nshow evidence of multiple periods of lava flooding with flows\nlying on top of previous ones. An elevated region named Ishtar\nTerra is a lava-filled basin as large as the United States. At\none end of this plateau sits Maxwell Montes, a mountain the size\nof Mount Everest. Scarring the mountain's flank is a\n100-kilometer (62-mile) wide, 2.5-kilometer (1.5-mile) deep\nimpact crater named Cleopatra. (Almost all features on Venus are\nnamed for women; Maxwell Montes, Alpha Regio and Beta Regio are\nthe exceptions.) Craters survive on Venus for perhaps 400 million\nyears because there is no water and very little wind erosion.\n\n Extensive fault-line networks cover the planet, probably the\nresult of the same crustal flexing that produces plate tectonics\non Earth. But on Venus the surface temperature is sufficient to\nweaken the rock, which cracks just about everywhere, preventing\nthe formation of major plates and large earthquake faults like\nthe San Andreas Fault in California.\n\n Venus' predominant weather pattern is a high-altitude,\nhigh-speed circulation of clouds that contain sulfuric acid. At\nspeeds reaching as high as 360 kilometers (225 miles) per hour,\nthe clouds circle the planet in only four Earth days. The\ncirculation is in the same direction -- west to east -- as Venus'\nslow rotation of 243 Earth days, whereas Earth's winds blow in\nboth directions -- west to east and east to west -- in six\nalternating bands. Venus' atmosphere serves as a simplified\nlaboratory for the study of our weather.\n \n\nEarth\n\n As viewed from space, our world's distinguishing\ncharacteristics are its blue waters, brown and green land masses\nand white clouds. We are enveloped by an ocean of air consisting\nof 78 percent nitrogen, 21 percent oxygen and 1 percent other\nconstituents. The only planet in the solar system known to harbor\nlife, Earth orbits the Sun at an average distance of 150 million\nkilometers (93 million miles). Earth is the third planet from the\nSun and the fifth largest in the solar system, with a diameter\njust a few hundred kilometers larger than that of Venus.\n\n Our planet's rapid spin and molten nickel-iron core give\nrise to an extensive magnetic field, which, along with the\natmosphere, shields us from nearly all of the harmful radiation\ncoming from the Sun and other stars. Earth's atmosphere protects\nus from meteors as well, most of which burn up before they can\nstrike the surface. Active geological processes have left no\nevidence of the pelting Earth almost certainly received soon\nafter it formed -- about 4.6 billion years ago. Along with the\nother newly formed planets, it was showered by space debris in\nthe early days of the solar system.\n\n From our journeys into space, we have learned much about our\nhome planet. The first American satellite -- Explorer 1 -- was\nlaunched from Cape Canaveral in Florida on January 31, 1958, and\ndiscovered an intense radiation zone, now called the Van Allen\nradiation belts, surrounding Earth.\n\n Since then, other research satellites have revealed that our\nplanet's magnetic field is distorted into a tear-drop shape by\nthe solar wind -- the stream of charged particles continuously\nejected from the Sun. We've learned that the magnetic field does\nnot fade off into space but has definite boundaries. And we now\nknow that our wispy upper atmosphere, once believed calm and\nuneventful, seethes with activity -- swelling by day and\ncontracting by night. Affected by changes in solar activity, the\nupper atmosphere contributes to weather and climate on Earth.\n\n Besides affecting Earth's weather, solar activity gives rise\nto a dramatic visual phenomenon in our atmosphere. When charged\nparticles from the solar wind become trapped in Earth's magnetic\nfield, they collide with air molecules above our planet's\nmagnetic poles. These air molecules then begin to glow and are\nknown as the auroras or the northern and southern lights.\n\n Satellites about 35,789 kilometers (22,238 miles) out in\nspace play a major role in daily local weather forecasting. These\nwatchful electronic eyes warn us of dangerous storms. Continuous\nglobal monitoring provides a vast amount of useful data and\ncontributes to a better understanding of Earth's complex weather\nsystems.\n\n From their unique vantage points, satellites can survey\nEarth's oceans, land use and resources, and monitor the planet's\nhealth. These eyes in space have saved countless lives, provided\ntremendous conveniences and shown us that we may be altering our\nplanet in dangerous ways.\n \n\nThe Moon\n\n The Moon is Earth's single natural satellite. The first\nhuman footsteps on an alien world were made by American\nastronauts on the dusty surface of our airless, lifeless\ncompanion. In preparation for the human-crewed Apollo\nexpeditions, NASA dispatched the automated Ranger, Surveyor and\nLunar Orbiter spacecraft to study the Moon between 1964 and 1968.\n\n NASA's Apollo program left a large legacy of lunar materials\nand data. Six two-astronaut crews landed on and explored the\nlunar surface between 1969 and 1972, carrying back a collection\nof rocks and soil weighing a total of 382 kilograms (842 pounds)\nand consisting of more than 2,000 separate samples.\n\n From this material and other studies, scientists have\nconstructed a history of the Moon that includes its infancy.\nRocks collected from the lunar highlands date to about 4.0-4.3\nbillion years old. The first few million years of the Moon's\nexistence were so violent that few traces of this period remain.\nAs a molten outer layer gradually cooled and solidified into\ndifferent kinds of rock, the Moon was bombarded by huge asteroids\nand smaller objects. Some of the asteroids were as large as Rhode\nIsland or Delaware, and their collisions with the Moon created\nbasins hundreds of kilometers across.\n\n This catastrophic bombardment tapered off approximately four\nbillion years ago, leaving the lunar highlands covered with huge,\noverlapping craters and a deep layer of shattered and broken\nrock. Heat produced by the decay of radioactive elements began to\nmelt the interior of the Moon at depths of about 200 kilometers\n(125 miles) below the surface. Then, for the next 700 million\nyears -- from about 3.8 to 3.1 billion years ago -- lava rose\nfrom inside the Moon. The lava gradually spread out over the\nsurface, flooding the large impact basins to form the dark areas\nthat Galileo Galilei, an astronomer of the Italian Renaissance,\ncalled maria, meaning seas.\n\n As far as we can tell, there has been no significant\nvolcanic activity on the Moon for more than three billion years.\nSince then, the lunar surface has been altered only by\nmicrometeorites, by the atomic particles from the Sun and stars,\nby the rare impacts of large meteorites and by spacecraft and\nastronauts. If our astronauts had landed on the Moon a billion\nyears ago, they would have seen a landscape very similar to the\none today. Thousands of years from now, the footsteps left by the\nApollo crews will remain sharp and clear.\n\n The origin of the Moon is still a mystery. Four theories\nattempt an explanation: the Moon formed near Earth as a separate\nbody; it was torn from Earth; it formed somewhere else and was\ncaptured by our planet's gravity, or it was the result of a\ncollision between Earth and an asteroid about the size of Mars.\nThe last theory has some good support but is far from certain.\n \n\nMars\n\n Of all the planets, Mars has long been considered the solar\nsystem's prime candidate for harboring extraterrestrial life.\nAstronomers studying the red planet through telescopes saw what\nappeared to be straight lines crisscrossing its surface. These\nobservations -- later determined to be optical illusions -- led\nto the popular notion that intelligent beings had constructed a\nsystem of irrigation canals on the planet. In 1938, when Orson\nWelles broadcast a radio drama based on the science fiction\nclassic War of the Worlds by H.G. Wells, enough people believed\nin the tale of invading martians to cause a near panic.\n\n Another reason for scientists to expect life on Mars had to\ndo with the apparent seasonal color changes on the planet's\nsurface. This phenomenon led to speculation that conditions might\nsupport a bloom of martian vegetation during the warmer months\nand cause plant life to become dormant during colder periods.\n\n So far, six American missions to Mars have been carried out.\nFour Mariner spacecraft -- three flying by the planet and one\nplaced into martian orbit -- surveyed the planet extensively\nbefore the Viking Orbiters and Landers arrived.\n\n Mariner 4, launched in late 1964, flew past Mars on July 14,\n1965, coming within 9,846 kilometers (6,118 miles) of the\nsurface. Transmitting to Earth 22 close-up pictures of the\nplanet, the spacecraft found many craters and naturally occurring\nchannels but no evidence of artificial canals or flowing water.\nMariners 6 and 7 followed with their flybys during the summer of\n1969 and returned 201 pictures. Mariners 4, 6 and 7 showed a\ndiversity of surface conditions as well as a thin, cold, dry\natmosphere of carbon dioxide.\n\n On May 30, 1971, the Mariner 9 Orbiter was launched on a\nmission to make a year-long study of the martian surface. The\nspacecraft arrived five and a half months after lift-off, only to\nfind Mars in the midst of a planet-wide dust storm that made\nsurface photography impossible for several weeks. But after the\nstorm cleared, Mariner 9 began returning the first of 7,329\npictures; these revealed previously unknown martian features,\nincluding evidence that large amounts of water once flowed across\nthe surface, etching river valleys and flood plains.\n\n In August and September 1975, the Viking 1 and 2 spacecraft\n-- each consisting of an orbiter and a lander -- lifted off from\nKennedy Space Center. The mission was designed to answer several\nquestions about the red planet, including, Is there life there?\nNobody expected the spacecraft to spot martian cities, but it was\nhoped that the biology experiments on the Viking Landers would at\nleast find evidence of primitive life -- past or present.\n\n Viking Lander 1 became the first spacecraft to successfully\ntouch down on another planet when it landed on July 20, 1976,\nwhile the United States was celebrating its Bicentennial. Photos\nsent back from the Chryse Planitia (\"Plains of Gold\") showed a\nbleak, rusty-red landscape. Panoramic images returned by the\nlander revealed a rolling plain, littered with rocks and marked\nby rippled sand dunes. Fine red dust from the martian soil gives\nthe sky a salmon hue. When Viking Lander 2 touched down on Utopia\nPlanitia on September 3, 1976, it viewed a more rolling landscape\nthan the one seen by its predecessor -- one without visible\ndunes.\n\n The results sent back by the laboratory on each Viking\nLander were inconclusive. Small samples of the red martian soil\nwere tested in three different experiments designed to detect\nbiological processes. While some of the test results seemed to\nindicate biological activity, later analysis confirmed that this\nactivity was inorganic in nature and related to the planet's soil\nchemistry. Is there life on Mars? No one knows for sure, but the\nViking mission found no evidence that organic molecules exist\nthere.\n\n The Viking Landers became weather stations, recording wind\nvelocity and direction as well as atmospheric temperature and\npressure. Few weather changes were observed. The highest\ntemperature recorded by either craft was -14 degrees Celsius (7\ndegrees Fahrenheit) at the Viking Lander 1 site in midsummer.\n\n The lowest temperature, -120 degrees Celsius (-184 degrees\nFahrenheit), was recorded at the more northerly Viking Lander 2\nsite during winter. Near-hurricane wind speeds were measured at\nthe two martian weather stations during global dust storms, but\nbecause the atmosphere is so thin, wind force is minimal. Viking\nLander 2 photographed light patches of frost -- probably\nwater-ice -- during its second winter on the planet.\n\n The martian atmosphere, like that of Venus, is primarily\ncarbon dioxide. Nitrogen and oxygen are present only in small\npercentages. Martian air contains only about 1/1,000 as much\nwater as our air, but even this small amount can condense out,\nforming clouds that ride high in the atmosphere or swirl around\nthe slopes of towering volcanoes. Local patches of early morning\nfog can form in valleys.\n\n There is evidence that in the past a denser martian\natmosphere may have allowed water to flow on the planet. Physical\nfeatures closely resembling shorelines, gorges, riverbeds and\nislands suggest that great rivers once marked the planet.\n\n Mars has two moons, Phobos and Deimos. They are small and\nirregularly shaped and possess ancient, cratered surfaces. It is\npossible the moons were originally asteroids that ventured too\nclose to Mars and were captured by its gravity.\n\n The Viking Orbiters and Landers exceeded by large margins\ntheir design lifetimes of 120 and 90 days, respectively. The\nfirst to fail was Viking Orbiter 2, which stopped operating on\nJuly 24, 1978, when a leak depleted its attitude-control gas.\nViking Lander 2 operated until April 12, 1980, when it was shut\ndown because of battery degeneration. Viking Orbiter 1 quit on\nAugust 7, 1980, when the last of its attitude-control gas was\nused up. Viking Lander 1 ceased functioning on November 13, 1983.\n\n Despite the inconclusive results of the Viking biology\nexperiments, we know more about Mars than any other planet except\nEarth. NASA's Mars Observer spacecraft, to be launched in\nSeptember 1992, will expand our knowledge of the martian\nenvironment and lead to human exploration of the red planet. \n \n\nAsteroids\n\n The solar system has a large number of rocky and metallic\nobjects that are in orbit around the Sun but are too small to be\nconsidered full-fledged planets. These objects are known as\nasteroids or minor planets. Most, but not all, are found in a\nband or belt between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter. Some have\norbits that cross Earth's path, and there is evidence that Earth\nhas been hit by asteroids in the past. One of the least eroded,\nbest preserved examples is the Barringer Meteor Crater near\nWinslow, Arizona.\n\n Asteroids are material left over from the formation of the\nsolar system. One theory suggests that they are the remains of a\nplanet that was destroyed in a massive collision long ago. More\nlikely, asteroids are material that never coalesced into a\nplanet. In fact, if the estimated total mass of all asteroids was\ngathered into a single object, the object would be only about\n1,500 kilometers (932 miles) across -- less than half the\ndiameter of our Moon. \n\n Thousands of asteroids have been identified from Earth. It\nis estimated that 100,000 are bright enough to eventually be\nphotographed through Earth-based telescopes.\n\n Much of our understanding about asteroids comes from\nexamining pieces of space debris that fall to the surface of\nEarth. Asteroids that are on a collision course with Earth are\ncalled meteoroids. When a meteoroid strikes our atmosphere at\nhigh velocity, friction causes this chunk of space matter to\nincinerate in a streak of light known as a meteor. If the\nmeteoroid does not burn up completely, what's left strikes\nEarth's surface and is called a meteorite. One of the best places\nto look for meteorites is the ice cap of Antarctica.\n\n Of all the meteorites examined, 92.8 percent are composed of\nsilicate (stone), and 5.7 percent are composed of iron and\nnickel; the rest are a mixture of the three materials. Stony\nmeteorites are the hardest to identify since they look very much\nlike terrestrial rocks.\n\n Since asteroids are material from the very early solar\nsystem, scientists are interested in their composition.\nSpacecraft that have flown through the asteroid belt have found\nthat the belt is really quite empty and that asteroids are\nseparated by very large distances.\n\n Current and future missions will fly by selected asteroids\nfor closer examination. The Galileo Orbiter, launched by NASA in\nOctober 1989, will investigate main-belt asteroids on its way to\nJupiter. The Comet Rendezvous/Asteroid Flyby (CRAF) and Cassini\nmissions will also study these far-flung objects. Scheduled for\nlaunch in the latter part of the 1990s, the CRAF and Cassini\nmissions are a collaborative project of NASA, the European Space\nAgency and the federal space agencies of Germany and Italy, as\nwell as the United States Air Force and the Department of Energy.\nOne day, space factories will mine the asteroids for raw\nmaterials.\n \n\nJupiter\n\n Beyond Mars and the asteroid belt, in the outer regions of\nour solar system, lie the giant planets of Jupiter, Saturn,\nUranus and Neptune. In 1972, NASA dispatched the first of four\nspacecraft slated to conduct the initial surveys of these\ncolossal worlds of gas and their moons of ice and rock. Jupiter\nwas the first port of call.\n\n Pioneer 10, which lifted off from Kennedy Space Center in\nMarch 1972, was the first spacecraft to penetrate the asteroid\nbelt and travel to the outer regions of the solar system. In\nDecember 1973, it returned the first close-up images of Jupiter,\nflying within 132,252 kilometers (82,178 miles) of the planet's\nbanded cloud tops. Pioneer 11 followed a year later. Voyagers 1\nand 2 were launched in the summer of 1977 and returned\nspectacular photographs of Jupiter and its family of satellites\nduring flybys in 1979.\n\n These travelers found Jupiter to be a whirling ball of\nliquid hydrogen and helium, topped with a colorful atmosphere\ncomposed mostly of gaseous hydrogen and helium. Ammonia ice\ncrystals form white Jovian clouds. Sulfur compounds (and perhaps\nphosphorus) may produce the brown and orange hues that\ncharacterize Jupiter's atmosphere.\n\n It is likely that methane, ammonia, water and other gases\nreact to form organic molecules in the regions between the\nplanet's frigid cloud tops and the warmer hydrogen ocean lying\nbelow. Because of Jupiter's atmospheric dynamics, however, these\norganic compounds -- if they exist -- are probably short-lived.\n\n The Great Red Spot has been observed for centuries through\ntelescopes on Earth. This hurricane-like storm in Jupiter's\natmosphere is more than twice the size of our planet. As a\nhigh-pressure region, the Great Red Spot spins in a direction\nopposite to that of low-pressure storms on Jupiter; it is\nsurrounded by swirling currents that rotate around the spot and\nare sometimes consumed by it. The Great Red Spot might be a\nmillion years old.\n\n Our spacecraft detected lightning in Jupiter's upper\natmosphere and observed auroral emissions similar to Earth's\nnorthern lights at the Jovian polar regions. Voyager 1 returned\nthe first images of a faint, narrow ring encircling Jupiter.\n\n Largest of the solar system's planets, Jupiter rotates at a\ndizzying pace -- once every 9 hours 55 minutes 30 seconds. The\nmassive planet takes almost 12 Earth years to complete a journey\naround the Sun. With 16 known moons, Jupiter is something of a\nminiature solar system.\n\n A new mission to Jupiter -- the Galileo Project -- is under\nway. After a six- year cruise that takes the Galileo Orbiter once\npast Venus, twice past Earth and the Moon and once past two\nasteroids, the spacecraft will drop an atmospheric probe into\nJupiter's cloud layers and relay data back to Earth. The Galileo\nOrbiter will spend two years circling the planet and flying close\nto Jupiter's large moons, exploring in detail what the two\nPioneers and two Voyagers revealed.\n \n\nGalilean Satellites\n\n In 1610, Galileo Galilei aimed his telescope at Jupiter and\nspotted four points of light orbiting the planet. For the first\ntime, humans had seen the moons of another world. In honor of\ntheir discoverer, these four bodies would become known as the\nGalilean satellites or moons. But Galileo might have happily\ntraded this honor for one look at the dazzling photographs\nreturned by the Voyager spacecraft as they flew past these\nplanet-sized satellites.\n\n One of the most remarkable findings of the Voyager mission\nwas the presence of active volcanoes on the Galilean moon Io.\nVolcanic eruptions had never before been observed on a world\nother than Earth. The Voyager cameras identified at least nine\nactive volcanoes on Io, with plumes of ejected material extending\nas far as 280 kilometers (175 miles) above the moon's surface.\n\n Io's pizza-colored terrain, marked by orange and yellow\nhues, is probably the result of sulfur-rich materials brought to\nthe surface by volcanic activity. Volcanic activity on this\nsatellite is the result of tidal flexing caused by the\ngravitational tug-of-war between Io, Jupiter and the other three\nGalilean moons.\n\n Europa, approximately the same size as our Moon, is the\nbrightest Galilean satellite. The moon's surface displays a\ncomplex array of streaks, indicating the crust has been\nfractured. Caught in a gravitational tug-of-war like Io, Europa\nhas been heated enough to cause its interior ice to melt --\napparently producing a liquid-water ocean. This ocean is covered\nby an ice crust that has formed where water is exposed to the\ncold of space. Europa's core is made of rock that sank to its\ncenter.\n\n Like Europa, the other two Galilean moons -- Ganymede and\nCallisto -- are worlds of ice and rock. Ganymede is the largest\nsatellite in the solar system -- larger than the planets Mercury\nand Pluto. The satellite is composed of about 50 percent water or\nice and the rest rock. Ganymede's surface has areas of different\nbrightness, indicating that, in the past, material oozed out of\nthe moon's interior and was deposited at various locations on the\nsurface.\n\n Callisto, only slightly smaller than Ganymede, has the\nlowest density of any Galilean satellite, suggesting that large\namounts of water are part of its composition. Callisto is the\nmost heavily cratered object in the solar system; no activity\nduring its history has erased old craters except more impacts.\n\n Detailed studies of all the Galilean satellites will be\nperformed by the Galileo Orbiter.\n \n\nSaturn\n\n No planet in the solar system is adorned like Saturn. Its\nexquisite ring system is unrivaled. Like Jupiter, Saturn is\ncomposed mostly of hydrogen. But in contrast to the vivid colors\nand wild turbulence found in Jovian clouds, Saturn's atmosphere\nhas a more subtle, butterscotch hue, and its markings are muted\nby high-altitude haze. Given Saturn's somewhat placid-looking\nappearance, scientists were surprised at the high-velocity\nequatorial jet stream that blows some 1,770 kilometers (1,100\nmiles) per hour.\n\n Three American spacecraft have visited Saturn. Pioneer 11\nsped by the planet and its moon Titan in September 1979,\nreturning the first close-up images. Voyager 1 followed in\nNovember 1980, sending back breathtaking photographs that\nrevealed for the first time the complexities of Saturn's ring\nsystem and moons. Voyager 2 flew by the planet and its moons in\nAugust 1981.\n\n The rings are composed of countless low-density particles\norbiting individually around Saturn's equator at progressive\ndistances from the cloud tops. Analysis of spacecraft radio waves\npassing through the rings showed that the particles vary widely\nin size, ranging from dust to house-sized boulders. The rings are\nbright because they are mostly ice and frosted rock.\n\n The rings might have resulted when a moon or a passing body\nventured too close to Saturn. The unlucky object would have been\ntorn apart by great tidal forces on its surface and in its\ninterior. Or the object may not have been fully formed to begin\nwith and disintegrated under the influence of Saturn's gravity. A\nthird possibility is that the object was shattered by collisions\nwith larger objects orbiting the planet.\n\n Unable either to form into a moon or to drift away from each\nother, individual ring particles appear to be held in place by\nthe gravitational pull of Saturn and its satellites. These\ncomplex gravitational interactions form the thousands of ringlets\nthat make up the major rings.\n\n Radio emissions quite similar to the static heard on an AM\ncar radio during an electrical storm were detected by the Voyager\nspacecraft. These emissions are typical of lightning but are\nbelieved to be coming from Saturn's ring system rather than its\natmosphere, where no lightning was observed. As they had at\nJupiter, the Voyagers saw a version of Earth's auroras near\nSaturn's poles.\n\n The Voyagers discovered new moons and found several\nsatellites that share the same orbit. We learned that some moons\nshepherd ring particles, maintaining Saturn's rings and the gaps\nin the rings. Saturn's 18th moon was discovered in 1990 from\nimages taken by Voyager 2 in 1981. \n\n Voyager 1 determined that Titan has a nitrogen-based\natmosphere with methane and argon -- one more like Earth's in\ncomposition than the carbon dioxide atmospheres of Mars and\nVenus. Titan's surface temperature of -179 degrees Celsius (-290\ndegrees Fahrenheit) implies that there might be water-ice islands\nrising above oceans of ethane-methane liquid or sludge.\nUnfortunately, Voyager's cameras could not penetrate the moon's\ndense clouds.\n\n Continuing photochemistry from solar radiation may be\nconverting Titan's methane to ethane, acetylene and -- in\ncombination with nitrogen -- hydrogen cyanide. The latter\ncompound is a building block of amino acids. These conditions may\nbe similar to the atmospheric conditions of primeval Earth\nbetween three and four billion years ago. However, Titan's\natmospheric temperature is believed to be too low to permit\nprogress beyond this stage of organic chemistry.\n\n The exploration of Saturn will continue with the Cassini\nmission. The Cassini spacecraft will orbit the planet and will\nalso deploy a probe called Huygens, which will be dropped into\nTitan's atmosphere and fall to the surface. Cassini will use the\nprobe as well as radar to peer through Titan's clouds and will\nspend years examining the Saturnian system.\n \n\nUranus\n\n In January 1986, four and a half years after visiting\nSaturn, Voyager 2 completed the first close-up survey of the\nUranian system. The brief flyby revealed more information about\nUranus and its retinue of icy moons than had been gleaned from\nground observations since the planet's discovery over two\ncenturies ago by the English astronomer William Herschel.\n\n Uranus, third largest of the planets, is an oddball of the\nsolar system. Unlike the other planets (with the exception of\nPluto), this giant lies tipped on its side with its north and\nsouth poles alternately facing the sun during an 84-year swing\naround the solar system. During Voyager 2's flyby, the south pole\nfaced the Sun. Uranus might have been knocked over when an\nEarth-sized object collided with it early in the life of the\nsolar system.\n\n Voyager 2 found that Uranus' magnetic field does not follow\nthe usual north-south axis found on the other planets. Instead,\nthe field is tilted 60 degrees and offset from the planet's\ncenter, a phenomenon that on Earth would be like having one\nmagnetic pole in New York City and the other in the city of\nDjakarta, on the island of Java in Indonesia.\n\n Uranus' atmosphere consists mainly of hydrogen, with some 12\npercent helium and small amounts of ammonia, methane and water\nvapor. The planet's blue color occurs because methane in its\natmosphere absorbs all other colors. Wind speeds range up to 580\nkilometers (360 miles) per hour, and temperatures near the cloud\ntops average -221 degrees Celsius (-366 degrees Fahrenheit).\n\n Uranus' sunlit south pole is shrouded in a kind of\nphotochemical \"smog\" believed to be a combination of acetylene,\nethane and other sunlight-generated chemicals. Surrounding the\nplanet's atmosphere and extending thousands of kilometers into\nspace is a mysterious ultraviolet sheen known as \"electroglow.\"\n\n Approximately 8,000 kilometers (5,000 miles) below Uranus'\ncloud tops, there is thought to be a scalding ocean of water and\ndissolved ammonia some 10,000 kilometers (6,200 miles) deep.\nBeneath this ocean is an Earth-sized core of heavier materials.\n\n Voyager 2 discovered 10 new moons, 16-169 kilometers (10-105\nmiles) in diameter, orbiting Uranus. The five previously known --\nMiranda, Ariel, Umbriel, Titania and Oberon -- range in size from\n520 to 1,610 kilometers (323 to 1,000 miles) across. Representing\na geological showcase, these five moons are half-ice, half-rock\nspheres that are cold and dark and show evidence of past\nactivity, including faulting and ice flows.\n\n The most remarkable of Uranus' moons is Miranda. Its surface\nfeatures high cliffs as well as canyons, crater-pocked plains and\nwinding valleys. The sharp variations in terrain suggest that,\nafter the moon formed, it was smashed apart by a collision with\nanother body -- an event not unusual in our solar system, which\ncontains many objects that have impact craters or are fragments\nfrom large impacts. What is extraordinary is that Miranda\napparently reformed with some of the material that had been in\nits interior exposed on its surface.\n\n Uranus was thought to have nine dark rings; Voyager 2 imaged\n11. In contrast to Saturn's rings, which are composed of bright\nparticles, Uranus' rings are primarily made up of dark,\nboulder-sized chunks.\n \n\nNeptune\n\n Voyager 2 completed its 12-year tour of the solar system\nwith an investigation of Neptune and the planet's moons. On\nAugust 25, 1989, the spacecraft swept to within 4,850 kilometers\n(3,010 miles) of Neptune and then flew on to the moon Triton.\nDuring the Neptune encounter it became clear that the planet's\natmosphere was more active than Uranus'. \n\n Voyager 2 observed the Great Dark Spot, a circular storm the\nsize of Earth, in Neptune's atmosphere. Resembling Jupiter's\nGreat Red Spot, the storm spins counterclockwise and moves\nwestward at almost 1,200 kilometers (745 miles) per hour. Voyager\n2 also noted a smaller dark spot and a fast-moving cloud dubbed\nthe \"Scooter,\" as well as high-altitude clouds over the main\nhydrogen and helium cloud deck. The highest wind speeds of any\nplanet were observed, up to 2,400 kilometers (1,500 miles) per\nhour.\n\n Like the other giant planets, Neptune has a gaseous hydrogen\nand helium upper layer over a liquid interior. The planet's core\ncontains a higher percentage of rock and metal than those of the\nother gas giants. Neptune's distinctive blue appearance, like\nUranus' blue color, is due to atmospheric methane.\n\n Neptune's magnetic field is tilted relative to the planet's\nspin axis and is not centered at the core. This phenomenon is\nsimilar to Uranus' magnetic field and suggests that the fields of\nthe two giants are being generated in an area above the cores,\nwhere the pressure is so great that liquid hydrogen assumes the\nelectrical properties of a metal. Earth's magnetic field, on the\nother hand, is produced by its spinning metallic core and is only\nslightly tilted and offset relative to its center.\n\n Voyager 2 also shed light on the mystery of Neptune's rings.\nObservations from Earth indicated that there were arcs of\nmaterial in orbit around the giant planet. It was not clear how\nNeptune could have arcs and how these could be kept from\nspreading out into even, unclumped rings. Voyager 2 detected\nthese arcs, but they were, in fact, part of thin, complete rings.\nA number of small moons could explain the arcs, but such bodies\nwere not spotted.\n\n Astronomers had identified the Neptunian moons Triton in\n1846 and Nereid in 1949. Voyager 2 found six more. One of the new\nmoons -- Proteus -- is actually larger than Nereid, but since\nProteus orbits close to Neptune, it was lost in the planet's\nglare for observers on Earth.\n\n Triton circles Neptune in a retrograde orbit in under six\ndays. Tidal forces on Triton are causing it to spiral slowly\ntowards the planet. In 10 to 100 million years (a short time in\nastronomical terms), the moon will be so close that Neptunian\ngravity will tear it apart, forming a spectacular ring to\naccompany the planet's modest current rings.\n\n Triton's landscape is as strange and unexpected as those of\nIo and Miranda. The moon has more rock than its counterparts at\nSaturn and Uranus. Triton's mantle is probably composed of\nwater-ice, but the moon's crust is a thin veneer of nitrogen and\nmethane. The moon shows two dramatically different types of\nterrain: the so-called \"cantaloupe\" terrain and a receding ice\ncap. \n\n Dark streaks appear on the ice cap. These streaks are the\nfallout from geyser-like volcanic vents that shoot nitrogen gas\nand dark, fine-grained particles to heights of 2 to 8 kilometers\n(1 to 5 miles). Triton's thin atmosphere, only 1/70,000th as\nthick as Earth's, has winds that carry the dark particles and\ndeposit them as streaks on the ice cap -- the coldest surface yet\nfound in the solar system (-235 degrees Celsius, -391 degrees\nFahrenheit). Triton might be more like Pluto than any other\nobject spacecraft have so far visited.\n \n\nPluto\n\n Pluto is the most distant of the planets, yet the\neccentricity of its orbit periodically carries it inside\nNeptune's orbit, where it has been since 1979 and where it will\nremain until March 1999. Pluto's orbit is also highly inclined --\ntilted 17 degrees to the orbital plane of the other planets.\n\n Discovered in 1930, Pluto appears to be little more than a\ncelestial snowball. The planet's diameter is calculated to be\napproximately 2,300 kilometers (1,430 miles), only two-thirds the\nsize of our Moon. Ground-based observations indicate that Pluto's\nsurface is covered with methane ice and that there is a thin\natmosphere that may freeze and fall to the surface as the planet\nmoves away from the Sun. Observations also show that Pluto's spin\naxis is tipped by 122 degrees. \n\n The planet has one known satellite, Charon, discovered in\n1978. Charon's surface composition is different from Pluto's: the\nmoon appears to be covered with water-ice rather than methane\nice. Its orbit is gravitationally locked with Pluto, so both\nbodies always keep the same hemisphere facing each other. Pluto's\nand Charon's rotational period and Charon's period of revolution\nare all 6.4 Earth days. \n\n Although no spacecraft have ever visited Pluto, NASA is\ncurrently exploring the possibility of such a mission.\n \n\nComets\n\n The outermost members of the solar system occasionally pay a\nvisit to the inner planets. As asteroids are the rocky and\nmetallic remnants of the formation of the solar system, comets\nare the icy debris from that dim beginning and can survive only\nfar from the Sun. Most comet nuclei reside in the Oort Cloud, a\nloose swarm of objects in a halo beyond the planets and reaching\nperhaps halfway to the nearest star.\n\n Comet nuclei orbit in this frozen abyss until they are\ngravitationally perturbed into new orbits that carry them close\nto the Sun. As a nucleus falls inside the orbits of the outer\nplanets, the volatile elements of which it is made gradually\nwarm; by the time the nucleus enters the region of the inner\nplanets, these volatile elements are boiling. The nucleus itself\nis irregular and only a few miles across, and is made principally\nof water-ice with methane and ammonia -- materials very similar\nto those composing the moons of the giant planets.\n\n As these materials boil off of the nucleus, they form a coma\nor cloud-like \"head\" that can measure tens of thousands of\nkilometers across. The coma grows as the comet gets closer to the\nSun. The stream of charged particles coming from the Sun pushes\non this cloud, blowing it back like a flag in the wind and giving\nrise to the comet's \"tails.\" Gases and ions are blown directly\nback from the nucleus, but dust particles are pushed more slowly.\nAs the nucleus continues in its orbit, the dust particles are\nleft behind in a curved arc.\n\n Both the gas and dust tails point away from the Sun; in\neffect, the comet chases its tails as it recedes from the Sun.\nThe tails can reach 150 million kilometers (93 million miles) in\nlength, but the total amount of material contained in this\ndramatic display would fit in an ordinary suitcase. Comets --\nfrom the Latin cometa, meaning \"long-haired\" -- are essentially\ndramatic light shows.\n\n Some comets pass through the solar system only once, but\nothers have their orbits gravitationally modified by a close\nencounter with one of the giant outer planets. These latter\nvisitors can enter closed elliptical orbits and repeatedly return\nto the inner solar system.\n\n Halley's Comet is the most famous example of a relatively\nshort period comet, returning on an average of once every 76\nyears and orbiting from beyond Neptune to within Venus' orbit.\nConfirmed sightings of the comet go back to 240 B.C. This regular\nvisitor to our solar system is named for Sir Edmond Halley,\nbecause he plotted the comet's orbit and predicted its return,\nbased on earlier sightings and Newtonian laws of motion. His name\nbecame part of astronomical lore when, in 1759, the comet\nreturned on schedule. Unfortunately, Sir Edmond did not live to\nsee it.\n\n A comet can be very prominent in the sky if it passes\ncomparatively close to Earth. Unfortunately, on its most recent\nappearance, Halley's Comet passed no closer than 62.4 million\nkilometers (38.8 million miles) from our world. The comet was\nvisible to the naked eye, especially for viewers in the southern\nhemisphere, but it was not spectacular. Comets have been so\nbright, on rare occasions, that they were visible during daytime.\nHistorically, comet sightings have been interpreted as bad omens\nand have been artistically rendered as daggers in the sky.\n\n The Comet Rendezvous/Asteroid Flyby (CRAF) spacecraft will\nbecome the first traveler to fly close to a comet nucleus and\nremain in proximity to it as they both approach the Sun. CRAF\nwill observe the nucleus as it becomes active in the growing\nsunlight and begins to have its lighter elements boil off and\nform a coma and tails. Several spacecraft have flown by comets at\nhigh speed; the first was NASA's International Cometary Explorer\nin 1985. An armada of five spacecraft (two Japanese, two Soviet\nand the Giotto spacecraft from the European Space Agency) flew by\nHalley's Comet in 1986.\n \n\nConclusion\n\n Despite their efforts to peer across the vast distances of\nspace through an obscuring atmosphere, scientists of the past had\nonly one body they could study closely -- Earth. But since 1959,\nspaceflight through the solar system has lifted the veil on our\nneighbors in space. \n\n We have learned more about our solar system and its members\nthan anyone had in the previous thousands of years. Our automated\nspacecraft have traveled to the Moon and to all the planets\nbeyond our world except Pluto; they have observed moons as large\nas small planets, flown by comets and sampled the solar\nenvironment. Astronomy books now include detailed pictures of\nbodies that were only smudges in the largest telescopes for\ngenerations. We are lucky to be alive now to see these strange\nand beautiful places and objects.\n\n The knowledge gained from our journeys through the solar\nsystem has redefined traditional Earth sciences like geology and\nmeteorology and spawned an entirely new discipline called\ncomparative planetology. By studying the geology of planets,\nmoons, asteroids and comets, and comparing differences and\nsimilarities, we are learning more about the origin and history\nof these bodies and the solar system as a whole.\n\n We are also gaining insight into Earth's complex weather\nsystems. By seeing how weather is shaped on other worlds and by\ninvestigating the Sun's activity and its influence throughout the\nsolar system, we can better understand climatic conditions and\nprocesses on Earth.\n\n We will continue to learn and benefit as our automated\nspacecraft explore our neighborhood in space. One current mission\nis mapping Venus; others are flying between worlds and will reach\nthe Sun and Jupiter after complex trajectory adjustments. Future\nmissions are planned for Mars, Saturn, a comet and the asteroid\nbelt.\n\n We can also look forward to the time when humans will once\nagain set foot on an alien world. Although astronauts have not\nbeen back to the Moon since December 1972, plans are being\nformulated for our return to the lunar landscape and for the\nhuman exploration of Mars and even the establishment of martian\noutposts. One day, taking a holiday may mean spending a week at a\nlunar base or a martian colony!", "\nConfident, or merely crazed? That desert sun :-)\n\n\n\nGee, I thought the X-15 was Cable controlled. Didn't one of them have a\ntotal electrical failure in flight? Was there machanical backup systems?\n\n\nWhat do you mean? Overstress the wings, and they fail at teh joints?\n\nYou'll have to enlighten us in the hinterlands.\n", "COMET (Commercial Experiment Transport) is to launch from Wallops Island\nVirginia and orbit Earth for about 30 days. It is scheduled to come down\nin the Utah Test & Training Range, west of Salt Lake City, Utah. I saw\na message in this group toward the end of March that it was to launch \non March 27. Does anyone know if it launched on that day, or if not, \nwhen it is scheduled to launch and/or when it will come down.\n\nI would also be interested in what kind(s) of payload(s) are onboard.\n\nThanks for your help.", "\nAs I heard the story, before Albert came up the the theory\no'relativity and warped space, nobody could account for\nMercury's orbit. It ran a little fast (I think) for simple\nNewtonian physics. With the success in finding Neptune to\nexplain the odd movments of Uranus, it was postulated that there\nmight be another inner planet to explain Mercury's orbit. \n\nIt's unlikely anything bigger than an asteroid is closer to the\nsun than Mercury. I'm sure we would have spotted it by now.\nPerhaps some professionals can confirm that.\n", "\nI posted my public-domain MSDOS program \"sunlight.zip\" to \"sci.astro\" yesterday.\nIt easily locates the sun, moon, and planets, and can also be used to\nlocate other objects if you input their Right Ascesion and Declination.\nUse \"uudecode\" to extract.\n\n\n-- \n \n Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com\n \n Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!\n\n \"Marxism and feminism are one and that one is Marxism\"", "\nYes, unless the observer is at rest with respect to the singularity at\ninfinite distance away. But an observer on a close approach to the BH will\nsee the particle go in in finite time.\n\nPeter", "\nI assume, then, that someone at Thiokol put on their \"manager's hat\" and said\nthat pissing off the customer by delaying shipment of the SRB to look inside\nit was a bad idea, regardless of where that tool might have ended up.", "\n\n\nA good summary has been posted (thanks), but I wanted to add another comment.\nI remeber reading the comment that General Dynamics was tied into this, in \nconnection with their proposal for an early manned landing. Sorry I don't \nrember where I heard this, but I'm fairly sure it was somewhere reputable. \nAnyone else know anything on this angle?\n\nHrumph. They didn't send _me_ anything :(", "\n > be the site of major commercial activity. As far as we know it has no\n > materials we can't get cheaper right here on Earth or from asteroids\n > and comets, aside from the semi-mythic He3 that *might* be useful in low\n > grade fusion reactors.\n\nI don't know what a \"low grade\" fusion reactor is, but the major\nproblem with 3He (aside from the difficulty in making any fusion\nreactor work) is that its concentration in lunar regolith is just so\nsmall -- on the order of 5 ppb or so, on average (more in some\nfractions, but still very small). Massive amounts of regolith would\nhave to be processed.\n\nThis thread reminds me of Wingo's claims some time ago about the moon\nas a source of titanium for use on earth. As I recall, Wingo wasn't\ncontent with being assured that titanium (at .5% in the Earth's crust,\naverage) would not run out, and touted lunar mines, even though the\nmarket price of ilmenite concentrate these days is around $.06/pound.\nThis prompted me to look up large potential terrestrial sources.\n\nOn the moon, titanium occurs in basalts; \"high-Ti\" basalts (Apollo 11\nand 17) have 8-14% titanium dioxide (by weight). This is nice, but...\nterrestrial continental flood basalts are also typically enriched in\ntitanium. They very often have 3% TiO2, frequently have 4%, and\nsometimes even 5% TiO2 (again, by weight). These flood basalts are\n*enormous* -- millions of cubic kilometers, scattered all over the\nworld (Siberia, Brazil, the NW United States, Ethiopia, etc.). If\neven 1% of the basalts are 5% TiO2, this is trillions of tons of TiO2\nat concentrations only a factor of 2-3 less than in lunar high-Ti\nbasalts. It is difficult to see how the disadvantages of the moon\ncould be overcome by such a small increase the concentration of the\nore (never mind the richer, but less common, terrestrial ores being\nmined today).", "\n\n _The_ problem with Oort cloud sources is that absolutely\n no plausible mechanism has been proposed. It would have\n to involve new physics as far as I can tell. Closest to\n \"conventional\" Oort sources is a model of B-field pinching\n by comets, it's got too many holes in it to count, but at\n least it was a good try...\n\n So you have a plausible model for GRB's at astronomical distances?\n\nI don't have any plausible models for GRBs at any distances ;-)\n\n Recent observations have just about ruled out the merging neutron star\n hypothesis, which had a lot of problems, anyhow. We have to look for\n implausible models and what is fundamentally allowed independent of\n models.\n\nHmm, the \"superbowl\" burst has been claimed in press releases\nto cast doubt on the merging NS hypothesis, from what I've read\n(and I haven't seen the papers, only the press) I'd say it is\nconsistent with some of the merging NS models\n\n A paper on the possibility of GRB's in the Oort cloud just came\n through the astrophysics abstract service. To get a copy of this\n\n Here is the abstract of that paper.\n\n ...\n indicator to these events all possible sources which are\n isotropically distributed should remain under consideration. This is\n why the Oort cloud of comets is kept on the list,\n although there is no known mechanism for generating \\GRBs\n from cometary nuclei. Unlikely as it may seem, the possibility that \\GRBs\n originate in the solar cometary cloud\n cannot be excluded until it is disproved.\n\nThis does not propose a _mechanism_ for GRBs in the Oort (and, no,\nanti-matter annihilation does not fit the spectra at least as far\nas I understand annihilation spectra...). Big difference.\nThat's ignoring the question of how you fit a distribution\nto the Oort distribution when the Oort distribution is not well\nknown - in particular comet aphelia (which are not well known)\nare not a good measure of the Oort cloud distribution...\n", "I like option C of the new space station design.. \nIt needs some work, but it is simple and elegant..\n\nIts about time someone got into simple construction versus overly complex...\n\nBasically just strap some rockets and a nose cone on the habitat and go for\nit..\n\nMight be an idea for a Moon/Mars base to.. ", " Cool!\n\tI think you mean Moon.\n\t\t(Sorry, I had to.) ; )\n\n\n\n", "Is anybody out there willing to discuss with me careers in the Army that deal\nwith space? After I graduate, I will have a commitment to serve in the Army, \nand I would like to spend it in a space-related field. I saw a post a long\ntime ago about the Air Force Space Command which made a fleeting reference to\nits Army counter-part. Any more info on that would be appreciated. I'm \nlooking for things like: do I branch Intelligence, or Signal, or other? To\nwhom do I voice my interest in space? What qualifications are necessary?\nEtc, etc. BTW, my major is computer science engineering.\n\nPlease reply to ktj@reef.cis.ufl.edu", "\nWe've been progressing towards that goal for 30 years now. We precede\nany orbiting mission with flyby missions. Of course, it gets harder to\ndo as we work our way farther away from Earth. We're just starting to\nwork out to the outer planets: Galileo will orbit Jupiter, and Cassini around \nSaturn. \n", "Forwarded from:\nPUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICE\nJET PROPULSION LABORATORY\nCALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY\nNATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION\nPASADENA, CALIF. 91109. (818) 354-5011\n\nContact: Mary A. Hardin\n\nFOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE April 15, 1993\n#1506\n\n Scientists at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory report the\nsuccessful flight of a balloon carrying instruments designed to\nmeasure and study chemicals in the Earth's ozone layer.\n\n The April 3 flight from California's Barstow/Daggett Airport\nreached an altitude of 37 kilometers (121,000 feet) and took\nmeasurements as part of a program established to correlate data\nwith the Upper Atmosphere Research Satellite (UARS). \n\n The data from the balloon flight will also be compared to\nreadings from the Atmospheric Trace Molecular Spectroscopy\n(ATMOS) experiment which is currently flying onboard the shuttle\nDiscovery.\n\n \"We launch these balloons several times a year as part of an\nongoing ozone research program. In fact, JPL is actively\ninvolved in the study of ozone and the atmosphere in three\nimportant ways,\" said Dr. Jim Margitan, principal investigator on\nthe balloon research campaign. \n\n \"There are two JPL instruments on the UARS satellite,\" he\ncontinued. \"The ATMOS experiment is conducted by JPL scientists,\nand the JPL balloon research provides collaborative ground truth\nfor those activities, as well as data that is useful in its own\nright.\"\n\n The measurements taken by the balloon payload will add more\npieces to the complex puzzle of the atmosphere, specifically the\nmid-latitude stratosphere during winter and spring. \nUnderstanding the chemistry occurring in this region helps\nscientists construct more accurate computer models which are\ninstrumental in predicting future ozone conditions.\n\n The scientific balloon payload consisted of three JPL\ninstruments: an ultraviolet ozone photometer which measures\nozone as the balloon ascends and descends through the atmosphere;\na submillimeterwave limb sounder which looks at microwave\nradiation emitted by molecules in the atmosphere; and a Fourier\ntransform infrared interferometer which monitors how the\natmosphere absorbs sunlight. \n\n Launch occurred at about noontime, and following a three-\nhour ascent, the balloon floated eastward at approximately 130\nkilometers per hour (70 knots). Data was radioed to ground\nstations and recorded onboard. The flight ended at 10 p.m.\nPacific time in eastern New Mexico when the payload was commanded\nto separate from the balloon.\n\n \"We needed to fly through sunset to make the infrared\nmeasurements,\" Margitan explained, \"and we also needed to fly in\ndarkness to watch how quickly some of the molecules disappear.\"\n\n It will be several weeks before scientists will have the\ncompleted results of their experiments. They will then forward\ntheir data to the UARS central data facility at the Goddard Space\nFlight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland for use by the UARS\nscientists. \n\n The balloon was launched by the National Scientific Balloon\nFacility, normally based in Palestine, Tex., operating under a\ncontract from NASA's Wallops Flight Facility. The balloon was\nlaunched in California because of the west-to-east wind direction\nand the desire to keep the operation in the southwest.\n\n The balloons are made of 20-micron (0.8 mil, or less than\none-thousandth of an inch) thick plastic, and are 790,000 cubic\nmeters (28 million cubic feet) in volume when fully inflated with\nhelium (120 meters (400 feet) in diameter). The balloons weigh\nbetween 1,300 and 1,800 kilograms (3,000 and 4,000 pounds). The\nscientific payload weighs about 1,300 kilograms (3,000) pounds\nand is 1.8 meters (six feet) square by 4.6 meters (15 feet) high.\n\n The JPL balloon research is sponsored by NASA's Upper\nAtmosphere Research Program and the UARS Correlative Measurements\nProgram. ", "\n\nI can't see the need for a single (big? expensive? heavy?) \"mothership\" except\nfor Voyager style flyby missions. A few years ago, I did some calculations on a\n\"Grand Tour\" space probe launched by a Saturn V in 1975-76. At the time,I felt \nthat\nthe idea of a big \"mother ship\" had some merit - the Voyagers had to be rather\nsmall, lightweight craft due to the limitations imposed by using weak Titan\nIII/Centaur launchers. The concept I examined (and Michael's?) had a lot in\ncommon with the British Interplanetary Society's Daedalus project for sending a\nprobe to Barnard's Star - i.e. a large \"bus\" spacecraft carrying several\nsmaller probes to be dispatched when the ship arrives at its destination.\nThe Saturn V supposedly would have been able to launch a 10-ton payload towards\nJupiter and beyond. The \"bus\" could have included far more powerful\ncameras/telescopes/scientific equipment and a heavier/more powerful power\nsource than the Voyagers as there would be no limitations on weight anymore.\nExtremely important as the Voyagers had to perform most of their measurements\nwithin a couple of weeks before and after planetary encounter, and usually at a\nrelatively great distance.\n---\nThe smaller probes carried aboard might have been based on the \"real\" Voyagers,\nand an even smaller version like the one scheduled for launch towards Pluto in\nthe early 21st century, and would have been released at various points during\nthe mission. The advantages are obvious: the bus would have carried out the\nsame basic Jupiter-Saturn-Uranus-Neptune mission than Voyager 2 did, but in\naddition two \"sub-probes\" could have been relased at Saturn, examining\nthat planet's south polar regions before moving on to Pluto. This would have\nenabled NASA to map both hemispheres of Pluto/Charon by 1986...and several\nother probes could have examined parts of the Jupiter/Saturn/Uranus/Neptune\nsystems that weren't examined in great detail by the Voyagers due to\ntrajectory-related factors. A small \"swarm\" of camera-equipped miniature space\nprobes released a month before encounter would have been too costly for a \nsmall Voyager-type mission but entirely feasible if launched from a heavy, \nwell-equipped spacecraft. And would we have learned a lot more about the outer\nplanets! The reason why the Grand Tour was cancelled was lack of money, of\ncourse. \n\nMARCU$", "TRry the SKywatch project in Arizona.", "\nI will join the ranks here. If someone has the ability to actually put this\nthing together and get enough support, I'll also contribute $1000 to the \neffort. And jeeze, people, I'm a *student*, with *no job* yet, and I will\nput up my own hard-earned savings if it means we have a shot at getting\nthe truth told on the airwaves. Count me in.\n\nMike Ruff", "\nBack in January and February there were several articles (Wash Post, Time...)\nsaying that NASA was \"considering\" the option just as it is now \"considering\"\na followup mission 6-12 months after the servicing mission. However, the\ndown time was estimated to be a year+ (servicing, checkout, sceheduling\nand training another shuttle, orbit verification...) and to be quite\nexpensive. I think it may have been more a mental exercise than a\nreal plan. Don't know.\n \n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nRobert Dempsey (410) 338-1334\nSTScI/PODPS \n\n\"He which hath no stomach for this fight, Let him depart; his passport\nshall be made, and crowns for convoy put into his purse: We would not die\nin this man's company that fears his fellowship to die with us.\" -Shakespeare", "Archive-name: space/references\nLast-modified: $Date: 93/04/01 14:39:21 $\n\nREFERENCES ON SPECIFIC AREAS\n\n PUBLISHERS OF SPACE/ASTRONOMY MATERIAL\n\n Astronomical Society of the Pacific\n 1290 24th Avenue\n San Francisco, CA 94122\n\n\tMore expensive but better organized slide sets.\n\n Cambridge University Press\n 32 East 57th Street\n New York, NY 10022\n\n Crawford-Peters Aeronautica\n P.O. Box 152528\n San Diego, CA 92115\n (619) 287-3933\n\n\tAn excellent source of all kinds of space publications. They publish\n\ta number of catalogs, including:\n\t Aviation and Space, 1945-1962\n\t Aviation and Space, 1962-1990\n\t Space and Related Titles\n\n European Southern Observatory\n Information and Photographic Service\n Dr R.M. West\n Karl Scharzschild Strasse 2\n D-8046 Garching bei Munchen\n FRG\n\n\tSlide sets, posters, photographs, conference proceedings.\n\n Finley Holiday Film Corporation\n 12607 East Philadelphia Street\n Whittier, California 90601\n (213)945-3325\n (800)FILMS-07\n\n\tWide selection of Apollo, Shuttle, Viking, and Voyager slides at ~50\n\tcents/slide. Call for a catalog.\n\n Hansen Planetarium (Utah)\n\n\tSaid to hold sales on old slide sets. Look in Sky & Telescope\n\tfor contact info.\n\n Lunar and Planetary Institute\n 3303 NASA Road One\n Houston, TX 77058-4399\n\n\tTechnical, geology-oriented slide sets, with supporting\n\tbooklets.\n\n John Wiley & Sons\n 605 Third Avenue\n New York, NY 10158-0012\n\n Sky Publishing Corporation\n PO Box 9111\n Belmont, MA 02178-9111\n\n\tOffers \"Sky Catalogue 2000.0\" on PC floppy with information\n\t(including parallax) for 45000 stars.\n\n Roger Wheate\n Geography Dept.\n University of Calgary, Alberta\n Canada T2N 1N4\n (403)-220-4892\n (403)-282-7298 (FAX)\n wheate@uncamult.bitnet\n\n\tOffers a 40-slide set called \"Mapping the Planets\" illustrating\n\trecent work in planetary cartography, comes with a booklet and\n\tinformation on getting your own copies of the maps. $50 Canadian,\n\tshipping included.\n\n Superintendent of Documents\n US Government Printing Office\n Washington, DC 20402\n\n Univelt, Inc.\n P. O. Box 28130\n San Diego, Ca. 92128\n\n\tPublishers for the American Astronomical Society.\n\n US Naval Observatory\n\t202-653-1079 (USNO Bulletin Board via modem)\n\t202-653-1507 General\n\n Willmann-Bell\n P.O. Box 35025\n Richmond, Virginia 23235 USA\n (804)-320-7016 9-5 EST M-F\n\n\n CAREERS IN THE SPACE INDUSTRY\n\n In 1990 the Princeton Planetary Society published the first edition of\n \"Space Jobs: The Guide to Careers in Space-Related Fields.\" The\n publication was enormously successful: we distributed 2000 copies to\n space enthusiasts across the country and even sent a few to people in\n Great Britain, Australia, and Ecuador. Due to the tremendous response to\n the first edition, PPS has published an expanded, up-to-date second\n edition of the guide.\n\n The 40-page publication boasts 69 listings for summer and full-time job\n opportunities as well as graduate school programs. The second edition of\n \"Space Jobs\" features strategies for entering the space field and\n describes positions at consulting and engineering firms, NASA, and\n non-profit organizations. The expanded special section on graduate\n schools highlights a myriad of programs ranging from space manufacturing\n to space policy. Additional sections include tips on becoming an\n astronaut and listings of NASA Space Grant Fellowships and Consortia, as\n well as NASA Centers for the Commercial Development of Space.\n\n To order send check or money order made payable to Princeton Planetary\n Society for $4 per copy, plus $1 per copy for shipping and handling\n (non-US customers send an International Money Order payable in US\n dollars) to:\n\n Princeton Planetary Society\n 315 West College\n Princeton University\n Princeton, NJ 08544\n\n\n DC-X SINGLE-STAGE TO ORBIT (SSTO) PROGRAM\n\n SDI's SSRT (Single Stage Rocket Technology) project has funded a\n suborbital technology demonstrator called DC-X that should fly in\n mid-1993. Further development towards an operational single-stage to\n orbit vehicle (called Delta Clipper) is uncertain at present.\n\n An collection of pictures and files relating to DC-X is available by\n anonymous FTP or email server in the directory\n\n\tbongo.cc.utexas.edu:pub/delta-clipper\n\n Chris W. Johnson (chrisj@emx.cc.utexas.edu) maintains the archive.\n\n\n HOW TO NAME A STAR AFTER A PERSON\n\n Official names are decided by committees of the International\n Astronomical Union, and are not for sale. There are purely commercial\n organizations which will, for a fee, send you pretty certificates and\n star maps describing where to find \"your\" star. These organizations have\n absolutely no standing in the astronomical community and the names they\n assign are not used by anyone else. It's also likely that you won't be\n able to see \"your\" star without binoculars or a telescope. See the back\n pages of Astronomy or other amateur astronomy publications for contact\n info; one such organization may be found at:\n\n\tInternational Star Registry\n\t34523 Wilson Road\n\tIngleside, IL 60041\n\n This is not an endorsement of ISR.\n\n\n LLNL \"GREAT EXPLORATION\"\n\n The LLNL \"Great Exploration\", a plan for an on-the-cheap space station,\n Lunar base, and Mars mission using inflatable space structures, excited\n a lot of interest on the net and still comes up from time to time. Some\n references cited during net discussion were:\n\n\tAvation Week Jan 22, 1990 for an article on the overall Great\n\tExploration\n\n\tNASA Assessment of the LLNL Space Exploration Proposal and LLNL\n\tResponses by Dr. Lowell Wood LLNL Doc. No. SS 90-9. Their address\n\tis: PO Box 808 Livermore, CA 94550 (the NASA authors are unknown).\n\n\tBriefing slides of a presentation to the NRC last December may be\n\tavailable. Write LLNL and ask.\n\n\tConceptual Design Study for Modular Inflatable Space Structures, a\n\tfinal report for purchase order B098747 by ILC Dover INC. I don't\n\tknow how to get this except from LLNL or ILC Dover. I don't have an\n\taddress for ILC.\n\n\n LUNAR PROSPECTOR\n\n Lunar Exploration Inc. (LEI) is a non-profit corporation working on a\n privately funded lunar polar orbiter. Lunar Prospector is designed to\n perform a geochemical survey and search for frozen volatiles at the\n poles. A set of reference files describing the project is available in\n\n\tames.arc.nasa.gov:pub/SPACE/LEI/*\n\n\n LUNAR SCIENCE AND ACTIVITIES\n\n Grant H Heiken, David T Vaniman, and Bevan M French (editors), \"Lunar\n Sourcebook, A User's Guide to the Moon\", Cambridge University Press\n 1991, ISBN 0-521-33444-6; hardcover; expensive. A one-volume\n encyclopedia of essentially everything known about the Moon, reviewing\n current knowledge in considerable depth, with copious references. Heavy\n emphasis on geology, but a lot more besides, including considerable\n discussion of past lunar missions and practical issues relevant to\n future mission design. *The* reference book for the Moon; all others are\n obsolete.\n\n Wendell Mendell (ed), \"Lunar Bases and Space Activities of the 21st\n Century\", $15. \"Every serious student of lunar bases *must* have this\n book\" - Bill Higgins. Available from:\n\n\tLunar and Planetary Institute\n\t3303 NASA Road One\n\tHouston, TX 77058-4399\n\tIf you want to order books, call (713)486-2172.\n\n Thomas A. Mutch, \"Geology of the Moon: A Stratigraphic View\", Princeton\n University Press, 1970. Information about the Lunar Orbiter missions,\n including maps of the coverage of the lunar nearside and farside by\n various Orbiters.\n\n\n ORBITING EARTH SATELLITE HISTORIES\n\n A list of Earth orbiting satellites (that are still in orbit) is\n available by anonymous FTP in:\n\n\tames.arc.nasa.gov:pub/SPACE/FAQ/Satellites\n\n\n SPACECRAFT MODELS\n\n \"Space in Miniature #2: Gemini\" by\n\tMichael J. Mackowski\n\t1621 Waterwood Lane, St. Louis, MO 63146\n\t$7.50\n\n Only 34pp but enough pictures & diagrams to interest more than just the\n modelling community, I feel.\n\n Marco's Miniatures of Dracut, Mass. have produced a 1/144 Skylab in an\n edition of 500 & a 1/48 Lunar Rover (same scale as Monogram and Revell\n Lunar Modules) in a similar edition. Prices are $45 for Skylab, $24 for\n LRV. Check with them for postage etc. I have no connection with them,\n but have found their service to be good and their stock of rare/old kits\n *is* impressive. Prices range from reasonable ($35 for Monogram 1/32\n scale Apollo CSM with cutaway details) to spectacular ($145 for Airfix\n Vostok).\n\n\t Four Star Collectibles\n\t P.O. Box 658\n\t Dracut Mass 01826, USA.\n\t (508)-957-0695.\n\n Voyager, HST, Viking, Lunar Rover etc. kits from:\n\n\tLunar Models\n\t5120 Grisham\n\tRowlett, Texas 75088\n\t(214)-475-4230\n\n As reviewed by Bob Kaplow:\n\n\tPeter Alway's book \"Scale Model Rocketry\" is now available. Mine\n\tarrived in the mail earlier this week. To get your own copy, send\n\t$19.95 + $2.50 s/h ($22.45 total) to:\n\n\t\t\tPeter Alway\n\t\t\t2830 Pittsfield\n\t\t\tAnn Arbor, MI 48104\n\n\tThe book includes information on collecting scale data, construction\n\tof scale models, and several handy tables. Appendicies include plans\n\tfor 3 sport scale models, a 1:9.22 D Region Tomahawk (BT50), a 1/40\n\tV-2 (BT60), and a 1/9.16 Aerobee 150A (BT55/60).\n\n\tI've only begun to study the book, but it certainly will be a\n\tvaluable data source for many modellers. Most vehicles include\n\tseveral paragraphs of text describing the missions flown by the\n\trocket, various specs including \"NAR\" engine classification, along\n\twith a dimensioned drawing, color layouts & paint pattern, and a\n\tblack & white photograph.\n\n\tThe vehicles included are the Aerobee 150A, Aerobee 300, Aerobee Hi,\n\tArcas, Asp, Astrobee 1500, Astrobee D, Atlas Centaur, Atlas-Agena,\n\tAtlas-Score, Baby WAC, D-Region Tomahawk, Deacon Rockoon, Delta B,\n\tDelta E, Gemini-Titan II, Iris, Javelin, Juno 1, Juno 2, Little Joe\n\t1, Little Joe 2, Mercury-Atlas, Mercury-Redstone, Nike-Apache,\n\tNike-Asp, Nike-Cajun, Nike-Deacon, Nike-Tomahawk, RAM B, Saturn 1\n\tBlock 1, Saturn 1 Block 2, Saturn 1B, Saturn 5, Scout, Standard\n\tAerobee, Terrapin, Thor-Able, Titan III C, Titan III E, Trailblazer\n\t1, V-2, Vanguard, Viking Model 1, Viking Model 2, and Wac Corporal.\n\n\n ROCKET PROPULSION\n\n\tGeorge P. Sutton, \"Rocket Propulsion Elements\", 5th edn,\n\tWiley-Interscience 1986, ISBN 0-471-80027-9. Pricey textbook. The\n\tbest (nearly the only) modern introduction to the technical side of\n\trocketry. A good place to start if you want to know the details. Not\n\tfor the math-shy. Straight chemical rockets, essentially nothing on\n\tmore advanced propulsion (although earlier editions reportedly had\n\tsome coverage).\n\n\tDieter K. Huzel and David H. Huang, \"Design of Liquid Propellant\n\tRocket Engines\", NASA SP-125.\n\tNTIS N71-29405\t\tPC A20/MF A01\t1971 461p\n\tOut of print; reproductions may be obtained through the NTIS\n\t(expensive). The complete and authoritative guide to designing\n\tliquid-fuel engines. Reference #1 in most chapters of Sutton. Heavy\n\temphasis on practical issues, what works and what doesn't, what the\n\ttypical values of the fudge factors are. Stiff reading, massive\n\tdetail; written for rocket engineers by rocket engineers.\n\n\n SPACECRAFT DESIGN\n\n\tBrij N. Agrawal, \"Design of Geosynchronous Spacecraft\",\n\tPrentice-Hall, ISBN 0-13-200114-4.\n\n\tJames R. Wertz ed, \"Spacecraft Attitude Determination and\n\tControl\", Kluwer, ISBN 90-277-1204-2.\n\n\tP.R.K. Chetty, \"Satellite Technology and its Applications\",\n\tMcGraw-Hill, ISBN 0-8306-9688-1.\n\n\tJames R. Wertz and Wiley J. Larson (editors), \"Space Mission\n\tAnalysis and Design\", Kluwer Academic Publishers\n\t(Dordrecht/Boston/London) 1991, ISBN 0-7923-0971-5 (paperback), or\n\t0-7923-0970-7 (hardback).\n\n\t This looks at system-level design of a spacecraft, rather than\n\t detailed design. 23 chapters, 4 appendices, about 430 pages. It\n\t leads the reader through the mission design and system-level\n\t design of a fictitious earth-observation satellite, to\n\t illustrate the principles that it tries to convey. Warning:\n\t although the book is chock-full of many useful reference tables,\n\t some of the numbers in at least one of those tables (launch\n\t costs for various launchers) appear to be quite wrong. Can be\n\t ordered by telephone, using a credit card; Kluwer's phone number\n\t is (617)-871-6600. Cost $34.50.\n\n\n ESOTERIC PROPULSION SCHEMES (SOLAR SAILS, LASERS, FUSION...)\n\n This needs more and more up-to-date references, but it's a start.\n\n ANTIMATTER:\n\n\t\"Antiproton Annihilation Propulsion\", Robert Forward\n\t AFRPL TR-85-034 from the Air Force Rocket Propulsion Laboratory\n\t (AFRPL/XRX, Stop 24, Edwards Air Force Base, CA 93523-5000).\n\t NTIS AD-A160 734/0\t PC A10/MF A01\n\t PC => Paper copy, A10 => $US57.90 -- or maybe Price Code?\n\t MF => MicroFiche, A01 => $US13.90\n\n\t Technical study on making, holding, and using antimatter for\n\t near-term (30-50 years) propulsion systems. Excellent\n\t bibliography. Forward is the best-known proponent\n\t of antimatter.\n\n\t This also may be available as UDR-TR-85-55 from the contractor,\n\t the University of Dayton Research Institute, and DTIC AD-A160\n\t from the Defense Technical Information Center, Defense Logistics\n\t Agency, Cameron Station, Alexandria, VA 22304-6145. And it's\n\t also available from the NTIS, with yet another number.\n\n\t\"Advanced Space Propulsion Study, Antiproton and Beamed Power\n\t Propulsion\", Robert Forward\n\n\t AFAL TR-87-070 from the Air Force Astronautics Laboratory, DTIC\n\t #AD-A189 218.\n\t NTIS AD-A189 218/1\t PC A10/MF A01\n\n\t Summarizes the previous paper, goes into detail on beamed power\n\t systems including \" 1) pellet, microwave, and laser beamed power\n\t systems for intersteller transport; 2) a design for a\n\t near-relativistic laser-pushed lightsail using near-term laser\n\t technology; 3) a survey of laser thermal propulsion, tether\n\t transportation systems, antiproton annihilation propulsion,\n\t exotic applications of solar sails, and laser-pushed\n\t interstellar lightsails; 4) the status of antiproton\n\t annihilation propulsion as of 1986; and 5) the prospects for\n\t obtaining antimatter ions heavier than antiprotons.\" Again,\n\t there is an extensive bibliography.\n\n\t \"Application of Antimatter - Electric Power to Interstellar\n\t Propulsion\", G. D. Nordley, JBIS Interstellar Studies issue of\n\t 6/90.\n\n BUSSARD RAMJETS AND RELATED METHODS:\n\n\tG. L. Matloff and A. J. Fennelly, \"Interstellar Applications and\n\tLimitations of Several Electrostatic/Electromagnetic Ion Collection\n\tTechniques\", JBIS 30 (1977):213-222\n\n\tN. H. Langston, \"The Erosion of Interstellar Drag Screens\", JBIS 26\n\t(1973): 481-484\n\n\tC. Powell, \"Flight Dynamics of the Ram-Augmented Interstellar\n\tRocket\", JBIS 28 (1975):553-562\n\n\tA. R. Martin, \"The Effects of Drag on Relativistic Spacefight\", JBIS\n\t25 (1972):643-652\n\n FUSION:\n\n\t\"A Laser Fusion Rocket for Interplanetary Propulsion\", Roderick Hyde,\n\tLLNL report UCRL-88857. (Contact the Technical Information Dept. at\n\tLivermore)\n\n\t Fusion Pellet design: Fuel selection. Energy loss mechanisms.\n\t Pellet compression metrics. Thrust Chamber: Magnetic nozzle.\n\t Shielding. Tritium breeding. Thermal modeling. Fusion Driver\n\t (lasers, particle beams, etc): Heat rejection. Vehicle Summary:\n\t Mass estimates. Vehicle Performance: Interstellar travel\n\t required exhaust velocities at the limit of fusion's capability.\n\t Interplanetary missions are limited by power/weight ratio.\n\t Trajectory modeling. Typical mission profiles. References,\n\t including the 1978 report in JBIS, \"Project Daedalus\", and\n\t several on ICF and driver technology.\n\n\t\"Fusion as Electric Propulsion\", Robert W. Bussard, Journal of\n\tPropulsion and Power, Vol. 6, No. 5, Sept.-Oct. 1990\n\n\t Fusion rocket engines are analyzed as electric propulsion\n\t systems, with propulsion thrust-power-input-power ratio (the\n\t thrust-power \"gain\" G(t)) much greater than unity. Gain values\n\t of conventional (solar, fission) electric propulsion systems are\n\t always quite small (e.g., G(t)<0.8). With these, \"high-thrust\"\n\t interplanetary flight is not possible, because system\n\t acceleration (a(t)) capabilities are always less than the local\n\t gravitational acceleration. In contrast, gain values 50-100\n\t times higher are found for some fusion concepts, which offer\n\t \"high-thrust\" flight capability. One performance example shows a\n\t 53.3 day (34.4 powered; 18.9 coast), one-way transit time with\n\t 19% payload for a single-stage Earth/Mars vehicle. Another shows\n\t the potential for high acceleration (a(t)=0.55g(o)) flight in\n\t Earth/moon space.\n\n\t\"The QED Engine System: Direct Electric Fusion-Powered Systems for\n\tAerospace Flight Propulsion\" by Robert W. Bussard, EMC2-1190-03,\n\tavailable from Energy/Matter Conversion Corp., 9100 A. Center\n\tStreet, Manassas, VA 22110.\n\n\t [This is an introduction to the application of Bussard's version\n\t of the Farnsworth/Hirsch electrostatic confinement fusion\n\t technology to propulsion. 1500In article <1993Apr19.020359.26996@sq.sq.com>, msb@sq.sq.com (Mark Brader) \n\nMB> So the\nMB> 1970 figure seems unlikely to actually be anything but a perijove.\n\nJG>Sorry, _perijoves_...I'm not used to talking this language.\n\nCouldn't we just say periapsis or apoapsis?\n\n ", "\nThe Orion concept as actually proposed (as opposed to the way it has been\nsomewhat misrepresented in some fiction) included wrapping a thick layer\nof reaction mass -- probably plastic of some sort -- around each bomb.\nThe bomb vaporizes the reaction mass, and it's that which transfers\nmomentum to the pusher plate.", "\nIt was a test of the first reusable tool.\n\n\nPointy so they can find them or so they will stick into their pants better, and\nbe closer to their brains?", "\nHow 'bout some more info on that alleged supernova in M-81?\nI might just break out the scope for this one.\n____________________________________________________\n\"No sir, I don't like it! \"-- Mr. Horse\nDan Kelo dkelo@pepvax.pepperdine.edu\n____________________________________________________\n", "Has anyone looked into the possiblity of a Proton/Centaur combo?\nWhat would be the benefits and problems with such a combo (other\nthan the obvious instability in the XSSR now)?\n", "\n\nThe gravity maneuvering that was used was to exploit 'fuzzy regions'. These\nare described by the inventor as exploiting the second-order perturbations in a\nthree body system. The probe was launched into this region for the\nearth-moon-sun system, where the perturbations affected it in such a way as to\nallow it to go into lunar orbit without large expenditures of fuel to slow\ndown. The idea is that 'natural objects sometimes get captured without\nexpending fuel, we'll just find the trajectory that makes it possible\". The\noriginator of the technique said that NASA wasn't interested, but that Japan\nwas because their probe was small and couldn't hold a lot of fuel for\ndeceleration.\n\n\tThis from an issue of 'Science News' or 'The Planetary Report' I\nbelieve, about 2 months ago(?).\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\nIt still applies, except the astronomy these days is Very Long Baseline\nRadio Astronomy coupled to GPS and Satellite Laser Ranging. The data\nfrom NASA's and the Naval Observatory's (among others) is a vital \nsource of data for studies into crustal dynamics, Earth rotation, and\npurturbations. Every time there is a leap second added to the New Year,\nremember the military and science are still co-habiting nicely. The\nsame VLBI was used to track Gallileo as it passed the Earth, and used\nso little fuel that it can afford to observe Ida. \n ", "Forwarded from the Mars Observer Project\n\n MARS OBSERVER STATUS REPORT\n April 23, 1993\n 10:00 AM PDT\n\nFlight Sequence C8 is active, the Spacecraft subsystems and instrument\npayload performing well in Array Normal Spin and outer cruise\nconfiguration, with uplink and downlink via the High Gain Antenna; uplink\nat 125 bps, downlink at the 2 K Engineering data rate.\n\nAs a result of the spacecraft entering Contingency Mode on April 9, all\npayload instruments were automatically powered off by on-board fault\nprotection software. Gamma Ray Spectrometer Random Access Memory\nwas successfully reloaded on Monday, April 19. To prepare for\nMagnetometer Calibrations which were rescheduled for execution in Flight\nSequence C9 on Tuesday and Wednesday of next week, a reload of Payload\nData System Random Access Memory will take place this morning\nbeginning at 10:30 AM.\n\nOver this weekend, the Flight Team will send real-time commands to\nperform Differential One-Way Ranging to obtain additional data for\nanalysis by the Navigation Team. Radio Science Ultra Stable Oscillator\ntesting will take place on Monday .\n\nThe Flight Sequence C9 uplink will occur on Sunday, April 25, with\nactivation at Midnight, Monday evening April 26. C9 has been modified to\ninclude Magnetometer Calibrations which could not be performed in C8 due\nto Contingency Mode entry on April 9. These Magnetometer instrument\ncalibrations will allow the instrument team to better characterize the\nspacecraft-generated magnetic field and its effect on their instrument.\nThis information is critical to Martian magnetic field measurements\nwhich occur during approach and mapping phases. MAG Cals will require\nthe sequence to command the spacecraft out of Array Normal Spin state\nand perform slew and roll maneuvers to provide the MAG team data points\nin varying spacecraft attitudes and orientations.", "This is turning into 'what's a moonbase good for', and I ought\nnot to post when I've a hundred some odd posts to go, but I would\nthink that the real reason to have a moon base is economic.\n\nSince someone with space industry will presumeably have a much\nlarger GNP than they would _without_ space industry, eventually,\nthey will simply be able to afford more stuff.", "\nBasically the right question, although I was interested in cases closer\nto home where the Sun is behind either a natural object or effective\nshielding.\n\n\nGood point (and thanks for the references).", "Would someone please send me a list of the historic space flights? I \nam not looking for a list of all flights, just the ones in which something \nmonumental happened. Or better yet, is there an ftp site with the list of all\nshuttle flights?", "All consipiracy theories aside, (they are watching though :-)), will NASA \ntry to image the Cydonia region of Mars where the \"Face\n\" is? If they can image it with the High resolution camera, it would \nsettle the FACE question once and for all. I mean, with a camera that \nwill have a pixel resolution of about 6 feet, we'd know whether all this \nstuff is real or imagination. \n\nCome on JPL and NASA folks, try to image it and settle this thing.\n", "Tonigth a TV journal here in Brasil announced that an object,\nbeyond Pluto's orbit, was found by an observatory at Hawaii. They\nnamed the object Karla.\n\n\tThe program said the object wasn't a gaseous giant planet, and\nshould be composed by rocks and ices.\n\n\tCan someone confirm these information? Could this object be a\nnew planet or a Kuiper object?\n\n\tThanks in advance.\n\n\tFrancisco.", "\n {Description of \"External Tank\" option for SSF redesign deleted}\n\n\nYo Ken, let's keep on-top of things! Both the \"External Tank\" and\n\"Wingless Orbiter\" options have been deleted from the SSF redesign\noptions list. Today's (4/23) edition of the New York Times reports\nthat O'Connor told the panel that some redesign proposals have\nbeen dropped, such as using the \"giant external fuel tanks used\nin launching space shuttles,\" and building a \"station around\nan existing space shuttle with its wings and tail removed.\"\n\nCurrently, there are three options being considered, as presented\nto the advisory panel meeting yesterday (and as reported in\ntoday's Times).\n\nOption \"A\" - Low Cost Modular Approach\nThis option is being studied by a team from MSFC. {As an aside,\nthere are SSF redesign teams at MSFC, JSC, and LaRC supporting\nthe SRT (Station Redesign Team) in Crystal City. Both LeRC and\nReston folks are also on-site at these locations, helping the respective\nteams with their redesign activities.} Key features of this\noption are:\n - Uses \"Bus-1\", a modular bus developed by Lockheed that's\n qualified for STS and ELV's. The bus provides propulsion, GN&C\n Communications, & Data Management. Lockheed developed this\n for the Air Force.\n - A \"Power Station Capability\" is obtained in 3 Shuttle Flights.\n SSF Solar arrays are used to provide 20 kW of power. The vehicle\n flies in an \"arrow mode\" to optimize the microgravity environment.\n Shuttle/Spacelab missions would utilize the vehilce as a power\n source for 30 day missions.\n - Human tended capability (as opposed to the old SSF sexist term\n of man-tended capability) is achieved by the addition of the\n US Common module. This is a modified version of the existing\n SSF Lab module (docking ports are added for the International\n Partners' labs, taking the place of the nodes on SSF). The\n Shuttle can be docked to the station for 60 day missions.\n The Orbiter would provide crew habitability & EVA capability.\n - International Human Tended. Add the NASDA & ESA modules, and\n add another 20 kW of power\n - Permanent Human Presence Capability. Add a 3rd power module,\n the U.S. habitation module, and an ACRV (Assured Crew Return\n Vehicle).\n\nOption \"B\" - Space Station Freedom Derived\nThe Option \"B\" team is based at LaRC, and is lead by Mike Griffin.\nThis option looks alot like the existing SSF design, which we\nhave all come to know and love :)\n\nThis option assumes a lightweight external tank is available for\nuse on all SSF assembly flights (so does option \"A\"). Also, the \nnumber of flights is computed for a 51.6 inclination orbit,\nfor both options \"A\" and \"B\".\n\nThe build-up occurs in six phases:\n - Initial Research Capability reached after 3 flights. Power\n is transferred from the vehicle to the Orbiter/Spacelab, when\n it visits.\n - Man-Tended Capability (Griffin has not yet adopted non-sexist\n language) is achieved after 8 flights. The U.S. Lab is\n deployed, and 1 solar power module provides 20 kW of power.\n - Permanent Human Presence Capability occurs after 10 flights, by\n keeping one Orbiter on-orbit to use as an ACRV (so sometimes\n there would be two Orbiters on-orbit - the ACRV, and the\n second one that comes up for Logistics & Re-supply).\n - A \"Two Fault Tolerance Capability\" is achieved after 14 flights,\n with the addition of a 2nd power module, another thermal\n control system radiator, and more propulsion modules.\n - After 20 flights, the Internationals are on-board. More power,\n the Habitation module, and an ACRV are added to finish the\n assembly in 24 flights.\n\nMost of the systems currently on SSF are used as-is in this option, \nwith the exception of the data management system, which has major\nchanges.", "[ stuff deleted ]\n\nThe French SPOT is an example that comes to mind. Although the\ncompany (name escapes me at the moment) sells images world-wide, you\ncan bet your last dollar (franc??) that the French gov't gets first\ndibs.\n\nI remember a few years ago (about the time SPOT was launched), I\nwas speaking to my Dad (an USAF officer) about this and that, and I\nhappend to mention SPOT (I think we were talking about technology\nutilization). He just about went ballistic. He wanted to know how I\nknew about SPOT and just what I knew. I guess that space surveillance\nis such a sensitive topic in the Air Force that he couldn't believe\nthat I would read about such a system in the popular press (ie. AV week).\n\nmark, ", "\n\n I'm on a fact-finding mission, trying to find out if there exists a list of\n potentially world-bearing stars within 100 light years of the Sun...\n Is anyone currently working on this sort of thing? Thanks...\n\n Dan\n -- \n\nIn principle, any star resembling the Sun (mass, luminosity) might have planets\nlocated in a suitable orbit. There several within 100 ly of the sun. They are\nsingle stars, for double or multiple systems might be troublesome. There's a\nlist located at ames.arc.nasa.gov somewhere in pub/SPACE. I think it is called\nstars.dat. By the way, what kind of project, if I may know?\n\nRui\n-- \n*** Infinity is at hand! Rui Sousa\n*** If yours is big enough, grab it! ruca@saber-si.pt", "\nInterstellar grains are not at all close to blackbodies. The \"large\"\ngrains have sizes of order 0.1 micron and absorb visible light with\nfair efficiency. However, at temperatures below 100 K, 90% of the\nthermal emission will be beyond 22 microns, where radiating\nefficiency is poor. (A small antenna cannot easily radiate at long\nwavelengths.) Thus the grains must heat up more in order to radiate\nthe energy they have absorbed.\n\nMoreover, the IRAS observations had a maximum wavelength of 100\nmicrons. Grains colder than 30 K will radiate primarily at longer\nwavelengths, and IRAS would be relatively insensitive to them. In\nthe extreme limit, grains as cold as 5 K will be almost undetectable\nby any conceivable observation.\n\nWorse still, IRAS color temperatures are heavily contaminated by a\npopulation of \"small\" grains. These grains have only perhaps 50\natoms, and when they are hit by a single photon they heat up to\ntemperatures of several hundred or 1000 K. Of course they cool\nquickly and then stay cold for a while, but _when they are radiating_\nthe characteristic temperature is several hundred K. Even a small\npopulation of these grains can dramatically raise the observed\n\"average\" temperature.\n\nA model for local infrared emission consistent with COBE data has\nthree components. These represent scattered radiation from Zodiacal\ndust (color temperature 5500 K), thermal emission from Zodiacal dust\n(Tc = 280 K), and thermal emission from Galactic dust (Tc=25 K). At\nthe ecliptic poles, the emissivities or dilution factors are\nrespectively 1.9E-13, 4E-8, and 2E-5. The first two are roughly\ndoubled in the ecliptic plane.\n\nTo find the thermal equilibrium temperature, we add up the dilution\nfactor times the fourth power of temperature for all components, then\ntake the fourth root. In the table below, starlight comes from\nAllen's number that stellar emission from the whole sky is equivalent\nto 460 zero mag stars with B-V color of 0.75. No doubt careful work\ncould do much better. (The person who suggested starlight had a\ndilution factor of E-4 must have been remembering wrong. We would be\ncooked if that were the case. In any event, the energy density of\nstarlight comes out about the same as that of the microwave\nbackground, and I believe that to be correct.)\n\n Dilution Temp. DT^4\nMicrowave background 1 2.7 53\nGalactic dust 2E-5 25 8\nZodiacal dust (emission) 6E-8 280 369\nZodiacal dust (scattering) 3E-13 5500 275\nStarlight 1E-13 5500 92\n -----\n 797\n\nThe fourth root of 797 is 5.3 K. Outside the Solar system, the\nresult would be 3.5 K. \n\nI find these results surprising, especially the importance of\nZodiacal dust, but I don't see any serious mistakes.\n", "Much of Cook's later exploration was privately funded, by Joseph Banks\namong others (eg in Resolution & the earlier Endeavour). Colnett's voyage\nto the Galapagos was substantially privately funded by the owners of\nBritish whaling vessels. Chancellor and Willoughby were privately funded\nby London merchant companies in their voyages to Muscovy. The list is\nalmost endless. Those doing the funding were about eighty percent\nmotivated by potential profit, ten percent by potential glory and ten\npercent by the desire to advance the sum of human knowledge.\n", "COMMERCIAL SPACE NEWS/SPACE TECHNOLOGY INVESTOR NUMBER 22\n\n This is number twenty-two in an irregular series on commercial \nspace activities. The commentaries included are my thoughts on \nthese developments. \n\n Sigh... as usual, I've gotten behind in getting this column \nwritten. I can only plead the exigency of the current dynamics in \nthe space biz. This column is put together at lunch hour and after \nthe house quiets down at night, so data can quickly build up if \nthere's a lot of other stuff going on. I've complied a lot of \ninformation and happenings since the last column, so I'm going to \nhave to work to keep this one down to a readable length. Have fun! \n\nCONTENTS:\n1- US COMMERCIAL SPACE SALES FLATTEN IN 1993\n2- DELTA WINS TWO KEY LAUNCH CONTRACTS\n3- COMMERCIAL REMOTE SENSING VENTURE GETS DOC \"GO-AHEAD\"\n4- INVESTMENT FIRM CALLS GD'S SPACE BIZ \"STILL A GOOD INVESTMENT\" \n5- ARIANE PREDICTS DIP IN LAUNCH DEMAND\n6- NTSB INVESTIGATES PEGASUS LAUNCH OVER ABORTED ABORT\n7- ANOTHER PEGASUS COMPETITOR IS ANNOUNCED\n8- GEORGIA LAUNCH SITE DROPPED FROM PLANNING\n9- SPAIN'S CAPRICORNIA LAUNCHER STILL PROCEEDING\n10- PACASTRO SIGNS LAUNCH RESERVATION WITH SWEDISH SPACE CORP\n11- CHINA AND TAIWAN JOINT SATELLITE VENTURE REPORTED\n12- SOUTH KOREA ANNOUNCES NATIONAL MOVE INTO SPACE TECHNOLOGIES\n13- SPACE TECHNOLOGY INDEXES THROUGH MARCH\nFINAL NOTES\n \nARTICLES\n--------------------------------------------------------------------\n1- US COMMERCIAL SPACE SALES FLATTEN IN 1993\n The US Department of Commerce projects US commercial space sales \nwill remain flat in 1993, with current data showing only a 2 percent \ngrowth over 1992. As published in \"US Industrial Outlook 1993\" \n(which was released in January), revenues from the 1993 US space \nbusiness are currently projected to be about $4,890 M. \n In contrast to previous years when US commercial space sales had \nshown double digits growth rates, this year's projected results are \ndriven by the US satellite manufacturing industry, where sales are \nprojected to drop from 12 satellites worth $1,300 M in 1992 to 7 \nsatellites worth $ 670 M in 1993. The US Industrial Outlook also \nprojects U.S. commercial launchers faces flat demand in coming year, \nand while predicting that 1993 revenues will increase 10 percent to \n$450 M, future sales will be \"adversely affected by the downward \nrevision in Department of Defense launch plans.\" \n Offsetting flat launch revenues and satellite deliveries, \nrevenues for fixed and mobile satellite services are projected to \nincrease to $1,900 M, primarily driven by increased revenues from \nbroadcast and cable TV networks. Similarly, remote sensing products \nand sales are projected to increase to $250 M in 1993 (up 15%). \n\n US COMMERCIAL SPACE REVENUES 1989 1990 1991 1992(r) 1993(e)\n Commercial satellites 900 1,000 1,100 1,300 670\n Satellite services 750 800 1,200 1,500 1,900\n Fixed (700) (735)(1,115)(1,275) (1,520)\n Mobile (50) ( 65)( 85)( 225) ( 380)\n Satellite ground equip 790 860 1,350 1,400 1,560\n Mobile equipment (40) (85) (280) (352) ???\n Commercial launches 150 570 380 450 450\n Remote sensing data and services 125 155 190 215 250\n Private microgravity research lab -- -- -- -- 60\n ===== ===== ====== ===== =====\n TOTAL ANNUAL REVENUES 2,715 3,385 4,220 4,815 4,890\n (r) = revised data for 1992 (e) = estimated data for 1993\n [Commentary: This is the first look at how the US commercial \nspace industry is expected to do in 1993. In general, not a bad \nreport -- with most of the bad news concentrated in the satellite \nmanufacturing area. There, changes of only a few satellites worth \n$100 M or so apiece can substantially influence the annual \nprojection. If we look forward over several years, this market \nsector should retain strong sales as US firms have been very \nsuccessful in regaining international market share in the satellite \nbusiness. \n Furthermore, sales of satellite ground equipment should go up in \nthe next revision of this data, expected to be released about mid-\nyear. Data on mobile satellite ground equipment sales (including \nsuch items as GPS receivers and portable satellite terminals) \nappears to be missing from the January data set. DoC usually \npublishes a listing of \"Space Business Indicators\" in mid-year, and \nthe next revision of commercial space revenues should be released \nthen. I expect the revised revenues should easily top $5,000 M, if \nthe mobile satellite ground equipment are added back into the \nnumbers, and the year should show about a 10% overall market growth. \n Looking beyond this year's data, future markets look quite \npromising. The DoC projects satellite service revenues could top \n$3,000 M by 1995 if new mobile satellite services and direct \nbroadcasting are implemented as planned, and that mobile satellite \nstation sales are expected to continue to growth at 15-20 % per year \nthrough the mid 1990's. My numbers are somewhat more pessimistic \nfor near-term market growth, but I agree the trend should be for \nsubstantial growth in US commercial space sales over at least the \nnext 5-10 years. (My pessimism is due to more conservative \nassumptions on market capture and growth in LEO communications and \nsatellite direct broadcasting services. I don't believe all of the \ncurrent players in the yet-to-be-born LEO communications satellite \nmarket and in the yet-to-be-proven direct broadcasting market will \nbe financial successes, nor that sales growth will be as explosive \nas currently projected.) \n It should also be noted this year's DoC data is the first \nrelease to show revenues from privately funded microgravity research \nfacilities. The $60 M shown in the Janurary data is primarily for \nthe Spacehab module, planned for launch in April on the Space \nShuttle, but also hidden in these numbers are the projected first \nsales from the COMET orbital launch and recovery experiment module.] \n\n2- DELTA WINS TWO KEY LAUNCH CONTRACTS\n McDonnell Douglas Corporation, which builds and markets the Delta \nlaunch vehicle has won two important launch contracts. Motorola \nInc. announced in mid February that it had selected the Delta to \nlaunch most of the satellites in the 66-satellite Iridium LEO \ncommunications constellation, and in mid April, McDonnell Douglas \nwas awarded the USAF Medium Launch Vehicle III contract. \n The launch services contract with Motorola for the Iridium \nconstellation launch is for at launch of least 45 Iridium \nsatellites. Another 21 satellites have been contracted to be \nlaunched by Khrunichev Enterprise in Russian on 3 Proton vehicle \nlaunches. These 45 satellites planned for the Delta will be \nlaunched 5 at a time, providing for at least 9 launches. \nAdditional satellites in the Iridium constellation, such as a \nplanned on-orbit spares, may also be launched on Delta. Although \ndetails of the launch services contract were reported to be \nnegotiation, and not yet final. \n The USAF MLV contract also went to MDC, bidding a variant of \ntheir Delta II launcher. This contract is only initially worth $7.5 \nmillion, but establishes a set of launch options for up to 36 \nlaunches, encompassing launches from 1996 through 2002. These \nlaunches will deploy the next generation of the USAF's Global \nPositioning System Block IIR navigation satellites, plus other \nprograms. First option for to meet the USAF launch options is \nexpected to be exercised this year, after which the USAF is expected \nto request launches of up to 6 Deltas per year for at least 6 years. \nUnder this contract the USAF can also request \"launch on demand\" \nservices from MDC for the 1996-2002 time period, with a launch to \noccur within 40 days of the request. \n [Commentary: If these two contracts are fulfilled, they should \nprovide an excellent business base for MDC's Delta launch program \nthrough the turn of the century. Combined, these two contracts have \na potential for about 45 launches, worth about $2,200 M to MDC, and \nsustaining a core business base of $300-400 M/year. Other contracts \nfor international and commercial payloads, as well as for NASA \nMedium ELV-class payloads, will add to this business base -- keeping \nMDC as a viable commerical launch company. \n However, it should be noted there are risk elements in these \ncontracts. Motorola's Iridium LEO communications constellation has \nnot yet received a US Federal Communications Commission license for \noperation in the U.S., nor has Motorola lined up all the financing \nand financial partners for the Iridium venture. Without these \napprovals or financial backing there will be no Iridium launches. \nBut, hopefully, these uncertainties will be settled this year. \n Similarly, the USAF MLV III program has been the target of \nseveral Congressional actions which have slowed the production of \nthe GPS Block IIR satellites and deleted the funding for the MLV III \nprogram in favor of the USAF NLS/\"Spacelifter\" program. At this \ntime, while it appears the MLV III contract will be executed, future \nfunding for the MLV III and other USAF commercial launch contracts \nis being reconsidered as part of national space launch strategy \nreviews. Some opinions expressed from within the Administration and \nCongress propose cancellation of all \"ELV upgrade\" programs \n(including the MLV programs) in favor of the proposed \"Spacelifter\" \nprogram. Such opinions may have some weight in this year's budget \ndeliberations, particularly as DoD funds will be more difficult to \nfind in the shrinking US Defense budget.] \n \n3- COMMERCIAL REMOTE SENSING VENTURE GETS DOC \"GO-AHEAD\"\n The first commercial license to operate a remote sensing \nsatellite was approved in early February by the US Department of \nCommerce's Office of Space Commerce. A license was granted to \nWorldView Imaging Corporation of Oakland, California to build and \noperate a pair of LEO imaging satellites to provide multi-spectral \nimages of the Earth. \n [Commentary: There has been little data released on this venture \nby WorldView and the DoC, other than the announcement of the \noperating and construction license. This was reported to be at the \nrequest of WorldView. Most industry speculation identifies this new \nventure as a \"Star Wars\" spinoff, using SDI-type technology to \nprovide digital Earth sensing data, and heavily integrated into \ndigital GIS databases for remote sensing/GIS users. Most probable \ncustomers for this service include exploration geologists, \nagricultural planners, and urban planners. \n It is noteworthy this is the first commercial venture under the \n1992 Land Remote Sensing Policy Act. The Act, as passed last \nNovember, provides that remote sensing data gathered from private remote \nsensing craft may be sold to users at differing prices. Prior to \nthis act, remote sensing data from all satellites had to be sold to \nall users at the same prices, and private remote sensing ventures \nwould have had to sell at the government-set Landsat data prices. \n There are rumors of several other potential commercial remote \nsensing ventures working their way through the system at different \nstages of development. I think the large Landsat and SPOT satellite \nsystems will provide the majority of the satellite remote sensing \ndata market for the next decade or so. In contrast to these large, \ngovernment-sponsored remote sensing systems, smaller market ventures \nsuch as WorldView and others can exploit market niches and use \ninnovative technology, and I believe, can find profitability on the \nmargin. I predict there may be some very interesting ventures \nappearing in the next year or so.] \n \n4- INVESTMENT FIRM CALLS GD'S SPACE BIZ \"STILL A GOOD INVESTMENT\" \n Wall Street investment house Morgan Stanley thinks General \nDynamic's Space Systems Division could still be a moneymaker, \ndespite having failed in the last 3 Atlas launches. In a recent \nanalyst's report Morgan Stanley said \"We are more than ever \nconvinced that if the company can return the Atlas to its historical \n95%-plus success rate, this will become a highly profitable, cash-\ngenerating unit.\" Based upon discussions with GD's corporate \nmanagement, Morgan Stanley projects that if the Atlas problems are \ncleared up the unit could see $70 M in earnings per year by 1995 and \n$100 M per year by 2000. This is based upon GD's projection of \ncapturing about 10 Atlas launches per year on the world market. \n [Commentary: Three failures in a row of their launch system has \nhurt General Dynamic's Space Systems Division. Since GD has \nrestructured to only keep a very few profitable core businesses, \nmany market pundits have been speculating GD's space business might \nbe next to be sold. The Morgan Stanley report indicates GD's Space \nSystems Division has some potential as a moneymaker, despite current \nproblems -- if they can get their act together. Sales are projected \nto be about $560 M in 1993, which will probably generate a loss of \nabout $25 M. If GD can capture their projected share of the space \nlaunch market, and if they have managed to clean up the reliability \nof their Atlas launchers, then they could generate healthy profits \nfrom those sales. But until they demonstrate the Atlas Centaur \nprogram is back on track, this division will continue to show \nsubstantial losses. \n In response to the sell-off rumors, in my opinion, this operation \nis not a really good candidate for takeover and quick profitability. \nTo do such a takeover, the current set corporate and divisional \nmanagement would be replaced with another set from outside the firm. \nIn GD SSD's case, to get the division back on track, the management \nteam will have to concentrate hard on the technical problems with \nthe Atlas Centaur, as well as in selling Atlas services. This would \nindicate only another firm with experience in rocket launch \noperations could find such talent in-house, and be able to convince \ncustomers to buy their launch services. Optimally, the firm would \nhave substantial liquid rocket experience, and experience in \nmarketing space technology internationally as well. Candidates for \nthis might be TRW, Rockwell, Lockheed, and Martin, and possibly \nMcDonnell Douglas and Boeing. But most of those firms have cash \nflow problems (MDC), have had a substantial business contraction \n(Boeing and MDC), are involved with other launch firms (Lockheed), \nor have taken on substantial debt (Martin). And coming up with the \n$700-1500 M purchase price for the division is a big chunk of \nchange for any company.] \n \n5 - ARIANE PREDICTS DIP IN LAUNCH DEMAND\n Arianespace, the operator of the Ariane launch system, is \nprojecting a dip in launch demand in the late 1990's. In early \nFebruary, Arianespace released their annual market survey, which \ndetailed their projection of the space transportation market for the \nnext decade. \n Over short run, Arianespace expects to retain their dominant \nposition and sustain a majority share of the launch market. Of 54 \ninternational and commercial launches planned through 1995, Ariane \nholds contracts for 31, General Dynamics' Atlas vehicle holds 14 \ncontracts, McDonnell Douglas' Delta holds 7, and Great Wall's Long \nMarch vehicle holds 2 launch contracts. \n Three-quarters of future launch contracts for which Ariane can \ncompete are projected to come from communications satellites with \nthe remaining 25% split between weather, Earth observation, and \nscientific satellites. Most of the future telecommunications demand \ngrowth is predicted to come from the Asia/Pacific region. \n Arianespace expects the current market consolidation of \nindividual satellite operators into regional or national groups will \ncontinue, with these groups investing in heavier satellites with \nlarger communications payloads carrying more transponders. \nArianespace predicts the average mass of telecommunications \nsatellites should increase by 20 % over today's average level, to \nabout 3000 kg in GEO. \n Demand for commercial launch services is expected to remain \nstrong over the next three years, but in the second half of the \ndecade, Arianespace predicts demand will decrease. Arianespace \nbases this prediction upon a matching of satellite transponder \ndemand and supply, particularly as new data compression techniques \nappear to could double or triple transponder capacity using existing \nor near-term transponders. \n One of the significant possible changes in the market was \nidentified as the arrival of new launch vehicles, including Russian \nlaunch systems. But Arianespace predicts that in the long term, \ninvestors purchasing launch services are looking for the best trade \noff between launch service quality and price, and that Russian and \nother new launch services will have to prove out their capabilities \nand service quality, and their market penetration will be minimal. \n [Commentary: Ariane releases their market surveys annually, and \nI reported on their prior market survey in a past issue of CSN/STI. \nComparing the two surveys, there aren't outstanding differences in \nthe numbers. The most notable change is the consideration of new \ndata compression techniques, reducing the demand for new physical \ntransponders on orbit.\n I note that in contrast to some predictions, demand for space-\nbased communications transponders appears to be remain strong. While \nfiber optic lines are making substantial inroads into the \nestablished point-to-point telecommunications markets, growing \ndemand for telecommunications services world wide and for point-to-\nmultipoint broadcast services have prevented a decrease in space \ntransponder demand. Fiberoptic cables provide a higher capability \nservice, but only from established point A to established point B. \nTo establish a fiberoptic link it is necessary to install cable \nbetween the points, and while there are improved network solutions, \ninstalling a large network of distributed fiberoptic links can cost \nmillions or billions of dollars. \n For broadcast services where there is not an existing ground \nnetwork structure, satellites still offer the most cost effective \nsolution. And if new services are required into a new region, it is \ncheaper to install a small satellite link costing only a few tens of \nthousands of dollars and tie into the existing global satellite \nnetwork. This allows rapid growth of new satellite services, and \nhas kept demand high. The replacement market for fiberoptics is \ngrowing as well, since as demand grows between the points serviced, \nit becomes cost effective to later install a fiberoptic link to \nhandle the increase in traffic. \n Since the telecommunications and data transfer markets are still \ngrowing rapidly, satellite market projections remain rosy. But \nsatellites are also getting longer orbital lifetimes. Current \ngeneration satellites are now getting guarantees of at 15 years of \non-orbit service or more, in contrast to 10 years of service from \nlast generation's satellites. This has cut back some of the launch \ndemand, as satellite owners are rescheduling replacement satellite \nlaunches over longer intervals. \n And as last note; Arianespace didn't flag it this year, but it \nlooks like the space transportation market will be rather over-\nsupplied by existing launch systems in the near term. The annual \ncommercial launch demand is for about 15-20 medium sized satellites \nper year. From the supply side, Ariane is capable of launching up \nto about a dozen medium sized satellites a year, Delta is capable of \nabout 9-12 per year, Atlas is capable of 6-12, Long March 4-8, \nJapan's H-Vehicle 2-4, Russia's Proton capable of 8, and other \nsystems such as Zenit and Soyuz another 10-20 medium launches per \nyear. That's a lot of capability for a small market. \n We can only expect the competition to intensify for commercial \nlaunches.]\n\n6- NTSB INVESTIGATES PEGASUS LAUNCH OVER ABORTED ABORT \n The 9 Feb Pegasus launch by Orbital Sciences Corporation has \nspawned an investigation over an apparent violation of range safety \nrules. A valid abort order from a NASA range safety officer to halt \nthe mission was overridden and the Pegasus was launched in violation \nof range safety rules. \n In the last few minutes of the Pegasus launch countdown, one of \ntwo abort command receivers aboard the Pegasus failed. Such a failure \ntypically scrubs a launch,and a NASA range safety officer at \nWallops Island, VA issued a mission abort order about a minute \nbefore the scheduled Pegasus launch. Somehow this command was \noverridden by the OSC launch team or the message was lost in the \ncommunications channels, and the Pegasus was launched despite the \nvalid abort call. \n Fortunately, the Pegasus functioned as expected, and the abort \ncommand receiver was not needed. But this incident did spark an \ninvestigation since a valid abort order was given under agreed-to \nlaunch constraint rules, and was not obeyed. \n Leading the investigation is the National Transportation Safety \nBoard (NTSB) with support from NASA, OSC, and the Air Force. This \ninvestigation marks the first time NTSB has taken the lead on an \nincident involving a space launch. According to the NTSB, their \ninvestigation will take about 6 months, and is primarily looking at \nlines of authority, communications links and safety procedures used \nin the launch. \n [Commentary: This is the first time that the NTSB has led an \ninvestigation into a space launch. Their leadership was requested \nby the Department of Commerce's Office of Commercial Space \nTransportation, who had licensed the commercial launch. \n At the time of writing this column, some of the initial \ninvestigations have been concluded, and some of the results are \nstarting to leak out into the trade press. Apparently, 3 or four \ndifferent communications channels were in use during the test. After \nthe abort destruct receiver stopped responding, the NASA test \ndirector and range controller in the Mission Control room at Wallops \nIsland gave abort orders about a minute before the launch. \nAccording to the mission rules, this should have stopped the launch. \nSomehow, the OSC test conductor ordered the abort reversed, and the \nNASA communicator on the net relayed that order to the B-52 carrying \nthe Pegasus at about 22 seconds before launch. Differing \nexplainations of exactly how this happened are proposed -- with the \nbest set being that clear lines of communications and clear \ndefinition of the responsibilities of the mission control team, and \nunderstanding of the mission rules were not established before the \nlaunch. \n As we see more and more commercial launches, more of these \nprocedural issues are going to crop up and will have to be resolved. \nThis case is interesting because it is the first time the NTSB has \nbeen called in to investigate a commercial launch problem (as they \ndo with commercial aircraft problems). \n I think this problem will turn out to be primarily problems with \nprocedures and communications, and will be cleared up with issuance \nof guidelines on how launch communications should be set up and how \nspecific lines of authority should be delineated.] \n\n7- ANOTHER PEGASUS COMPETITOR IS ANNOUNCED\n Tsniimach Enterprise in Russia announced it is marketing a new \nsmall space launch system, based upon converted ICBM components. \nTwo versions of the launcher are being marketed: the \"Aerokosmos\" \nwinged vehicle launched like the OSC Pegasus, and the \"Severkosmos\", \nlaunched from a mobile ground transporter. The Aerokosmos is \nprojected to deliver 900 kg to a 200 km circular orbit or 580 kg to \nan 800 km circular orbit, and the Severkosmos to be capable of 430 \nkg to 200 km orbits and 225 kg to 800 km. Also proposed to be used \nwith these launch systems is a LEO data relay system called \n'Sineva'. Tsniimach Enterprise is described as a ex-military \nestablishment, focusing on aerodynamics and thermal protection of \nspacecraft and which has participated in the development of the \nBuran shuttle system, They are located near the NPO Energia \nfacility in Kaliningrad, outside of Moscow. \n [Commentary: There's very little released information on this new \nventure. My suspicion is it is another Russian enterprise looking \nfor hard currency and trying to capitalize upon their in-house \nknowledge of ex-Soviet launch systems. It adds to the list of numerous \ncommercial space startups announced from the ex-Soviet Union. \n This one's a little different in that they are offering variants \nof ex-Soviet ICBMs, but I can't identify any key customers being \ntargeted or substantial financial backing.]\n\n8- GEORGIA LAUNCH SITE DROPPED FROM PLANNING\n In late January, Georgia Tech Research Institute released the \nresults of a preliminary study on the feasibility of a commercial \nrocket launching site in Camden County, Georgia at the old Kingsland \nMissile Test Launching Site on the Atlantic coast. The preliminary \nstudy recommended the site not be pursued as a commercial launch \nsite, stating reopening the site was not feasible due to projected \nlow investment returns, plus environmental and other geographic \nconsiderations. However, the report did say the site might be ideal \nfor other aerospace uses, and recommended other potential uses. \n [Commentary: This should put the nails in the coffin of the \nKingsland Commercial Launch Site. While other sites are still \nproceeding with commercial launch site development plans, Kingsland \nfound without a key customer to act as anchor tenant, and if \nsubstantial infrastructure had to be put in, then the expected \nreturns were too low to justify the cost of development. \n This might point out some key discriminators in judging the \nfeasibility of a commercial launch site. These include:\n - Is there an identified key customer to provide core usage \nsufficient to recover setup costs?\n - Is there a market advantage of using the site?\n - Can existing infrastructure be used or modified at the site?\n - Can financing be found at low enough cost to support the \ninvestment? \n Other commercial launch site ventures -- including those at \nWoomera, Poker Flat, Cape York, White Sands, Alabama Off-Shore \nPlatform, Hawaii, and Vandenberg have to also be judged against \nthese criteria. In my opinion, some of these ventures are flying \non hope and speculation, and not on sound financial grounds.]\n\n9- SPAIN'S CAPRICORNIA LAUNCHER STILL PROCEEDING\n In one of his last official acts, former President Bush \nauthorized space technology transfer for several joint space \nventures between US and other firms. One of these was a proposed \nuse of US technology by Spain to build a small booster. With that \nregulatory impediment removed, the 3-stage Capricornia launch \nvehicle will start development later this year, planning for a first \nlaunch in the 1995/96 time period. The Capricornia is described as \na small 3-stage all solid booster designed to put 250-500 Kg into \nLEO. Several launch sites are being examined for the system, \nincluding 2 on the Iberian peninsula and 1 on the Canary Islands. \nOriginated by INTA in Spain, the project reports it has $ 30 M in \ndevelopment funding, and will use technology from Argentina's Condor \nlaunch vehicle as well as from the US. \n [Commentary: Several firms have identified a market opportunity \nin providing a small launcher for the European market. Small \npayloads from European firms or organizations currently use either \nAriane piggyback launches or the US/Italian Scout launcher. \nHowever, Ariane piggyback opportunities are limited, and the Scout \nprogram is being phased out (accompanied by some disarray in the \nItalian government and space industry regarding any follow-on \nsystem). \n This has left an apparent niche for a new European small launch \nsystem. Surprisingly enough, ESA has not supported development of \nsuch a system within the current space funding structure. Studies \nhave been performed by British Aerospace, Aerospatiale, Deutsche \nAerospace, and Italian organizations, but with the exception of the \nSwedish/PacAstro system (reported below), I have not been able to \nfind any other European development work with even a rumor of \nfunding for hardware. \n Also of interest is the linking of the Capricornia to the \nArgentinian Condor launcher. There have been some interesting \nrumors surfacing out of Argentina over the past year about a space \nlauncher/IRBM program funded under the military junta which ruled \nthe country in the 1970's and early 1980's. \n What is known is in Feb 1992, the Argentinian Air Force formally \ntransferred control of the Condor 2 missile program to the new \ncivilian Argentinian national space agency (Comison Nacional de \nAtividades Espaciales - CNAE). The Condor 2 program was described \nas originating in 1983, expanding upon the smaller Condor 1 rocket \nprogram in collaboration with Egypt and with support of German \nfirms. The Condor 2 was also reportedly funded indirectly by Iraq \nin the mid-1980's. Fairly large solid rocket motors were built and \ntested, but Argentinan development of a suitable guidance package \nlagged that of the propulsion system. \n It should be noted CNAE is planning to launch its first \nscientific satellite in late 1994. The US$ 9 M, 181 Kg, SAC-B \nsatellite will study the Earth's upper atmosphere and includes \ncooperative experiments from Italy and the US. No launch vehicle has \nyet been selected, but OSC's Pegasus and the Russian Burlak Air \nlaunched rocket are reported to be strong contenders for this \ncontract.] \n\n10- PACASTRO SIGNS LAUNCH RESERVATION WITH SWEDISH SPACE CORP\n PacAstro, a small launch firm in Herndon, Virginia announced in \nlate February it had received a $6 M launch reservation contract \nfrom the Swedish Space Corp to launch a satellite on PacAstro's PA-2 \nlaunch vehicle. This will be performed as part of the Polar \nSatellite Service (PSS), a joint Norwegian Space Center/ Swedish \nSpace Corp. program to upgrade the Andoya Rocket Range in Norway and \noffering small satellite launches into the polar regions. According \nto PacAstro, PSS is also performing an $8 M upgrade of the Andoya \nlaunch facilities, including a new integration facility and a fully-\nenclosed vertical assembly building for small launch vehicles like \nthe PacAstro PA-2. PacAstro has been chosen as \"the main \nalternative rocket supplier\" for the small satellite launch service \nto be offered by PSS from Andoya. The date of the launch of the \nSwedish satellite was not specified. \n [Commentary: PacAstro has been trying to line up customers and \nfunding for their launch vehicle for some time now. The PA-2 is a \nsmall, two stage rocket fueled by RP-1 and Liquid Oxygen. From \nPacAstro's literature, the engines designed for the PA-series \nrockets are built of \"off the shelf\" components based upon the Lunar \nMOdule Descent Engines built by TRW, and are capable of putting a \n225 Kg satellite into a 750 km circular polar orbit. \n PacAstro is trying to arrange construction financing for its \nfirst three PA-2 vehicles, with a first launch planned for 1995, and \n2 orbital launches planned for 1996. My records show PacAstro hired \nTRW to provide marketing support and systems design, with primary \nengineering to be done by AeroAstro, a small satellite builder \nclosely associated with PacAstro (headquartered in the same \nbuilding). The Swedish Space Corporation would supply engineering, \nlaunch operations, vehicle subsystems, and marketing support. \nSumitomo Corp. of Tokyo, is a first round investor and sits on the \nboard of directors. \n PacAstro has gotten a first round financial package of at least \n$550 K (Some sources place this of high as $1 M), but has been \nsearching for about a year for the additional $20-30 M needed to \ndesign, build and launch their first set of vehicles. \n The launch reservation from SSC can possibly be used to help \nbring some investors on board, but by my estimate, they will need \nmuch more than the single $6 M sale to put their venture into real \nhardware.] \n\n11- CHINA AND TAIWAN JOINT SATELLITE VENTURE REPORTED\n In early March, it was reported a joint satellite communications \nventure between a Taiwanese and mainland Chinese was in the works. \nAs reported in the Taipei press, China Development Corp. (CDC), \nheadquartered in Taiwam and with links to the ruling Nationalist \nParty, is planning to set up a joint venture in Hong Kong with China \nGreat Wall Industry Corp. with the objective of launching a regional \ncommunications satellite. CDC would cover about 10% of the satellite \nsystem cost (US $10 M) in exchange for rights to 10% of the \nsatellite's communications channels. \n [Commentary: This announcement came close on the heels of the \nrelease of Taiwanese plans for space development (released in mid \nJanuary). In those plans, the National Space Program Office of \nTaiwan will launch 3 satellites, starting with ROCSAT-1, a 400 Kg \nscientific spacecraft, planned for launch in 1997. Two additional \nsatellites are planned, both communications satellites. TRW has \nbeen helping Taiwan plan this program, budgeted at T$13.6 B (US $530 \nM) through 2006. \n I haven't been able to establish any relationship between this \nventure and those of the NSPOT, but there might be a connection. \nWhile Taiwan has the financing to pursue several ventures, the \ncurrent Taiwanese telecommunications market might not support two \nseparate sastellite ventures. \n The reported name for the Tiawanese/Chinese system is \"Asiasat-\n2\", but I don't thinks this has any relationship with the existing \nHong Kong-based \"Asiasat\" program involving Chinese, Hong Kong, and \nother Asian investors, other than using it as an organizational \nmodel. There are some obvious advantages to pursuing such a joing \nventure -- it could provide excellent first-hand experience to \nTaiwan for a very low cost, which then can be used in later \nsatellite ventures. But there are internal political issues between \nTaiwanese and Chinese ventures, but putting any joint venture \nthrough a Hong Kong intermediary corporation might allow it to \nproceed. \n In any case, the East Asian satellite market is lighting up with \nsubstantially growth projected in space services and revenues. This \nis just another indicator to add to the list.] \n\n12- SOUTH KOREA ANNOUNCES NATIONAL MOVE INTO SPACE TECHNOLOGIES\n South Korea's Trade, Industry and Resources Ministry recently \nannounced plans to invest US$22 B in research and development and \nanother US$17 B into manufacturing and research facilities for \nadvanced aerospace technologies. Space technologies have been \nspecifically targeted as part of this program, beginning with \nmanufacture and launch of an advanced multi-purpose satellite by \n1997. The objective of this investment is to raise South Korea's \naerospace technology to the level of the world's top 10 countries by \n2000. \n [Commentary: South Korea has been quietly working to develop its \nnational aerospace industry, specifically including space \nactivities. I'm noting this as a flag that potential new players are \ncoming into the commercial space market. \n As part of their national effort, 2 national telecommunications \nsatellites for Korea Telecom will be launched in April and Oct 1995 \non Delta. Designated Koreasat 1 and 2, the platforms will provide \ntelevision and telephone service throughout the Korean Peninsula, \nsouthwestern Japan and portions of China bordering North Korea. \n South Korea launched its first small satellite piggyback on \nAriane in Aug 1992, called Uribyol-1 (Our Star) and costing about US \n$8.8 M. Uribyol-2 is planned for piggyback launch in October of \nthis year, again on Ariane, and will be entirely \"made in Korea.\" \nUribyol-3, projected for a 1995 launch, will be an environment-\nmonitoring micro-satellite. \n This satellite may be the precursor to a series of small Earth \nobservation satellites, The KEOS (Korean Earth Observation System) \nproject, which has been submitted for approval to the South Korean \ngovernment, would use two or three 300-kg spacecraft equipped with \noptical and microwave sensors.\n South Korean press reports claim there is also a parallel \nmilitary effort to establish the capabilities for building and \nlaunching small military satellites by 2001. Supposedly a \ngovernment panel had been established to oversee such an effort, \nfunded at US $ 500 M between 1993 and 2001, in anticipation of an \nexpected pullout of U.S. intelligence-gathering systems from the \nKorean peninsula. \n In conjunction with all of these reported efforts, South Korean \nis also pursuing production work either as off-sets to existing \naerospace technology contracts (for example, McDonnell Douglas is \noffsetting production of some Delta parts to South Korean firms as \npart of the Koreasat launch contracts), or for production of \nconsumer space items (among other products, South Korea exports \nsatellite receiver television setups to Japan, and Samsung has \nannounced teaming for production of OSC's Orbcomm user terminals.). \n This looks like a very aggressive push into space technologies. \nConsidering that East Asia is currently the fastest growing sector \nfor commercial space services (primarily for telecommunications), a \nSouth Korean push into space technologies may change the composition \nof commercial space market there over the next decade.] \n\n13- SPACE TECHNOLOGY INDEXES THROUGH MARCH\n As announced in the last CSN/STI, each issue will give the \nresults of stock indexes and portfolios regarding space stocks and \ninvestments. The table below summarizes results to the end of \nMarch. The Space Technology Index did quite a bit better than the \nmarket as a whole, as represented by the S&P 500 index. Since 90+% \nof the values included in the index are US firms, this represents a \ngeneral increase in the market value of space-related firms. The \nincrease in the first quarter is more than in all of 1992 -- which \nis a very promising sign, although future months may reverse this \ntrend. The Commercial Space Technology Index has also done quite \nwell, but the Pure Play portfolio -- consisting of stocks of firms \nwhich are pure plays in space technologies -- has also surpassed its \nresults in all of 1993. We'll keep an eye on these ....\n\n INDEX RESULTS THROUGH MARCH\n Beginning Beginning 1 Jan 93 to\n 1992 1993 31 Mar 1993\n ------- -------- --------\n S&P 500 416 436 (+4.7%) 452 (+3.7%)\n Space Tech Index 267 304 (+13.6%) 373 (+22.7%)\n Comm'l Space Tech Index 167 194 (+16.3%) 222 (+14.2%)\n Space Tech Pure Plays 147 169 (+15.4%) 197 (+16.2%)\n\n\nFINAL NOTES - \n What? This column's already full? And I still have bunches of \ncommercial space developments to report on. As I said at the start \nof this, column there's been a lot of interesting happenings - but \nI'll have to put them into the next issue. \n Looking ahead, I've got several articles in the works on new \nhappenings with Iridium and the LEO communications satellite market, \nmore news on international launchers appearing (and disappearing) on \nthe market, new international commercial space ventures, and other \ninteresting developments. \n And as always, I hope you folks find this stuff useful and \ninteresting -- Any and all comments are welcome. \n", "Excerpt From: rek@siss81 (Robert Kaye)\n\n:Just a few contributions from the space program to \"regular\" society:\n:\n:1.\tCalculators\n:2.\tTeflon (So your eggs don't stick in the pan)\n:3.\tPacemakers (Kept my grandfather alive from 1976 until 1988)\n\n Don't forget Tang! ::smile::", "Posted to the Internet by wmiler@nyx.cs.du.edu\n \n000062David42 041493003715\n \n The Lunar Tele-operation Model One (LTM1)\n =========================================\n By David H. Mitchell\n March 23, 1993\n \nINTRODUCTION:\n \nIn order to increase public interest in space-based and lunar operations, a\nreal miniature lunar-like environment is being constructed on which to test\ntele-operated models. These models are remotely-controlled by individuals\nlocated world-wide using their personal computers, for EduTainment\npurposes.\nNot only does this provide a test-bed for simple tele-operation and\ntele-presence activities but it also provides for the sharing of\ninformation\non methods of operating in space, including, but not limited to, layout of\na\nlunar colony, tele-operating machines for work and play, disseminating\neducational information, providing contests and awards for creativity and\nachievement and provides a new way for students worldwide to participate in\nTwenty-First century remote learning methods.\n \nBecause of the nature of the LTM1 project, people of all ages, interests\nand\nskills can contribute scenery and murals, models and structures,\ninterfacing\nand electronics, software and graphics. In operation LTM1 is an evolving\nplayground and laboratory that can be used by children, students and\nprofessionals worldwide. Using a personal computer at home or a terminal at\na participating institution a user is able to tele-operate real models at\nthe\nLTM1 base for experimental or recreational purposes. Because a real\nfacility\nexists, ample opportunity is provided for media coverage of the\nconstruction\nof the lunar model, its operation and new features to be added as suggested\nby the users themselves.\n \nThis has broad inherent interest for a wide range of groups:\n - tele-operations and virtual reality research\n - radio control, model railroad and ham radio operation\n - astronomy and space planetariums and science centers\n - art and theater\n - bbs and online network users\n - software and game developers\n - manufacturers and retailers of model rockets, cars and trains\n - children\n - the child in all of us\n \nLTM1 OVERALL DESIGN:\n \nA room 14 feet by 8 feet contains the base lunar layout. The walls are used\nfor murals of distant moon mountains, star fields and a view of the earth.\nThe \"floor\" is the simulated lunar surface. A global call for contributions\nis hereby made for material for the lunar surface, and for the design and\ncreation of scale models of lunar colony elements, scenery, and\nmachine-lets.\n \n The LTM1 initial design has 3 tele-operated machinelets:\n 1. An SSTO scale model which will be able to lift off, hover and land;\n 2. A bulldozerlet which will be able to move about in a quarry area; and\n 3. A moon-train which will traverse most of the simulated lunar surface.\n \n Each machinelet has a small TV camera utilizing a CCD TV chip mounted on\n it. A personal computer digitizes the image (including reducing picture\n content and doing data-compression to allow for minimal images to be sent\n to the operator for control purposes) and also return control signals.\n \nThe first machinelet to be set up will be the moon-train since model trains\nwith TV cameras built in are almost off-the-shelf items and control\nelectronics for starting and stopping a train are minimal. The user will\nreceive an image once every 1 to 4 seconds depending on the speed of their\ndata link to LTM1.\n \nNext, an SSTO scale model with a CCD TV chip will be suspended from a\nservo-motor operated wire frame mounted on the ceiling allowing for the\nSSTO\nto be controlled by the operator to take off, hover over the entire lunar\nlandscape and land.\n \nFinally, some tank models will be modified to be CCD TV chip equipped\nbulldozerlets. The entire initial LTM1 will allow remote operators\nworldwide\nto receive minimal images while actually operating models for landing and\ntakeoff, traveling and doing work. The entire system is based on\ncommercially\navailable items and parts that can be easily obtained except for the\ninterface electronics which is well within the capability of many advanced\nham radio operator and computer hardware/software developers.\n \nBy taking a graphically oriented communications program (Dmodem) and adding\na tele-operations screen and controls, the necessary user interface can be\nprovided in under 80 man hours.\n \nPLAN OF ACTION:\n \nThe Diaspar Virtual Reality Network has agreed to sponsor this project by\nproviding a host computer network and Internet access to that network.\nDiaspar is providing the 14 foot by 8 foot facility for actual construction\nof the lunar model. Diaspar has, in stock, the electronic tanks that can be\nmodified and one CCD TV chip. Diaspar also agrees to provide \"rail stock\"\nfor the lunar train model. Diaspar will make available the Dmodem graphical\ncommunications package and modify it for control of the machines-lets.\nAn initial \"ground breaking\" with miniature shovels will be performed for\na live photo-session and news conference on April 30, 1993. The initial\nmodels will be put in place. A time-lapse record will be started for\nhistorical purposes. It is not expected that this event will be completely\nserious or solemn. The lunar colony will be declared open for additional\nbuilding, operations and experiments. A photographer will be present and\nthe photographs taken will be converted to .gif images for distribution\nworld-wide to major online networks and bbs's. A press release will be\nissued\ncalling for contributions of ideas, time, talent, materials and scale\nmodels\nfor the simulated lunar colony.\n \nA contest for new designs and techniques for working on the moon will then\nbe\nannounced. Universities will be invited to participate, the goal being to\nfind instructors who wish to have class participation in various aspects of\nthe lunar colony model. Field trips to LTM1 can be arranged and at that\ntime\nthe results of the class work will be added to the model. Contributors will\nthen be able to tele-operate any contributed machine-lets once they return\nto\ntheir campus.\n \nA monthly LTM1 newsletter will be issued both electronically online and via\nconventional means to the media. Any major new tele-operated equipment\naddition will be marked with an invitation to the television news media.\nHaving a large, real model space colony will be a very attractive photo\nopportunity for the television community. Especially since the \"action\"\nwill\nbe controlled by people all over the world. Science fiction writers will be\ninvited to issue \"challenges\" to engineering and human factors students at\nuniversities to build and operate the tele-operated equipment to perform\nlunar tasks. Using counter-weight and pulley systems, 1/6 gravity may be\nsimulated to some extent to try various traction challenges.\n \nThe long term goal is creating world-wide interest, education,\nexperimentation\nand remote operation of a lunar colony. LTM1 has the potential of being a\nlong\nterm global EduTainment method for space activities and may be the generic\nexample of how to teach and explore in many other subject areas not limited\nto space EduTainment. All of this facilitates the kind of spirit which can\nlead to a generation of people who are ready for the leap to the stars!\n \nCONCLUSION:\n \nEduTainment is the blending of education and entertainment. Anyone who has\never enjoyed seeing miniatures will probably see the potential impact of a\nglobally available layout for recreation, education and experimentation\npurposes. By creating a tele-operated model lunar colony we not only create\nworld-wide publicity, but also a method of trying new ideas that require\nreal\n(not virtual) skills and open a new method for putting people's minds in\nspace.\n \n \nMOONLIGHTERS:\n \n\"Illuminating the path of knowledge about space and lunar development.\"\nThe following people are already engaged in various parts of this work:\nDavid42, Rob47, Dash, Hyson, Jzer0, Vril, Wyatt, The Dark One, Tiggertoo,\nThe Mad Hatter, Sir Robin, Jogden.\n \nCome join the discussion any Friday night from 10:30 to midnight PST in\n \nDiaspar Virtual Reality Network. Ideas welcome!\n \nInternet telnet to: 192.215.11.1 or diaspar.com\n \n(voice) 714-376-1776\n(2400bd) 714-376-1200\n(9600bd) 714-376-1234", "\nNo. The idea was suggested around here during discussions of possible\nnear-term commercial space activities. One of the folks involved in those\ndiscussions, a\nspacecraft engineer named Preston Carter, passed the suggestion on to \nsome entreprenurial types, and Mike Lawson is apparently going ahead with\nit. Preston is now at LLNL, and is working with Space Marketing on \nthe sensors that might be carried.\n\nActually, that sounds unlikely. I don't know what the launch vehicle\nwould be, but I would expect it to go on a commercial launcher --\ncertainly not on the Shuttle -- and the fraction of the cost paid to NASA\nfor, e.g., launch support would probably \ncover NASA's incremental costs pretty well.\n\n\nNo, as noted, LLNL is involved in lightweight sensor design, per \nClementine and related programs. I'm sure folks around here would like to \nsee a demonstration of a modern inflatable structure, but after all, \nthe U.S. did the Echo satellites long ago, and an advertising structure\nwould not be much closer to an inflatable space station than Echo was\n(or a parade balloon, for that matter).\n\nWhile I happen to personally dislike the idea, mostly because I've got\na background in astronomy, it's hardly vandalism -- it would be a short-lived\nintrusion on the night sky, doing no permanent damage and actually hurting\nonly a small subset of astronomers. On the other hand, it would certainly\ndraw attention to space. \n\nWhich, unfortunately, this is not likely to contribute much to.\n\n\nAs far as I know, it's a purely commercial venture.\n\nI gather it is being very seriously discussed with possible advertisers.\nCommercial projects, however, generally don't get \"funding\" -- they\nget \"customers\" -- whether it will have customers remains to be seen.\n\nNahh. He's too busy watching for mutant bacteria to notice anything in\nthe sky :-)\n\n\nJordin Kare\tjtk@s1.gov\tLawrence Livermore National Laboratory", "\nIn my case that's not for another 3+ years, so I'd appreciate any\nhints on what will keep the organization in business that long. (And\npreferably longer, of course, and worth being part of.)", "Getting wierd again?\n\nOkay we have figure out that a mission specifically to Pluto is to large and to\nexpensive..\n\nOkay what about launching one probe with multiple parts.. Kind of liek the old\nMIRV principle of old Cold War Days. \nBasically what I mean is design a mother ship that has piggy backed probes for\ndifferent missions,namely different planets. Each probe would be tied in with\nthe mother ship (or earth as the case may be).. This is good when and if we go\nfor Mars (the MArs mission can act as either Mother ship or relay point for the\nprobes.\n\nAlso the mother ship would be powered (if not the Mars Mission) by a normal\npropulsion, but also a solar sail (main reason for solar sail race is to see\nwhat can be done and autmoated?) the sail would get the probes to were they\nneeded.. I know the asteroid/meteor clouds (and such) might get in the way of a \nSail??\n\nMain reasonf ro mother ship idea is to make it more economoical to send\nmultiple probes/mission/satellites/exploreres to different places and cut\ncosts..\nThe probes could do fly bys or ?? we shall see...", "C-3's bird may be flaking out and expecting to die soon.\n\nor C-3 may orbit over major users areas, and it may be\nneeded to provide redundancy on that plane while b-4 may orbit\nover hicksville, and not have muc of a user community.", "\nThis activity is regularly reported in Ron's interesting posts. Could\nsomeone explain what the Command Loss Timer is?\n\nThanks, Alan", "\n The commercial uses of a transportation system between already-settled-\nand-civilized areas are obvious. Spaceflight is NOT in this position.\nThe correct analogy is not with aviation of the '30's, but the long\ntransocean voyages of the Age of Discovery. It didn't require gov't to\nfund these as long as something was known about the potential for profit\nat the destination. In practice, some were gov't funded, some were private.\nBut there was no way that any wise investor would spend a large amount\nof money on a very risky investment with no idea of the possible payoff.\n I am sure that a thriving spaceflight industry will eventually develop,\nand large numbers of people will live and work off-Earth. But if you ask\nme for specific justifications other than the increased resource base, I\ncan't give them. We just don't know enough. The launch rate demanded by\nexisting space industries is just too low to bring costs down much, and\nwe are very much in the dark about what the revolutionary new space industries\nwill be, when they will practical, how much will have to be invested to\nstart them, etc.\n", "\nThe \"face\" is an accident of light and shadow. There are many \"faces\" in\nlandforms on Earth; none is artificial (well, excluding Mount Rushmore and\nthe like...). There is also a smiley face on Mars, and a Kermit The Frog.\n\nThe question of life in a more mundane sense -- bacteria or the like -- is\nnot quite closed, although the odds are against it, and the most that the\nmore orthodox exobiologists are hoping for now is fossils.\n\nThere are currently no particular plans to do any further searches for life.\n\n\nMars Observer, currently approaching Mars, will probably try to get a better\nimage or two of the \"face\" at some point. It's not high priority; nobody\ntakes it very seriously. The shadowed half of the face does not look very\nface-like, so all it will take is one shot at a different sun angle to ruin\nthe illusion.", "SSRT ROLLOUT\n\n Speech Delivered by Col. Simon P. Worden,\n The Deputy for Technology, SDIO\n \n Mcdonnell Douglas - Huntington Beach\n April 3,1993\n\n Most of you, as am I, are \"children of the 1960's.\" We grew\nup in an age of miracles -- Inter-Continental Ballistic Missiles,\nnuclear energy, computers, flights to the moon. But these were\nmiracles of our parent's doing. For a decade and more the pundits\nhave told us - \"you've lost it!\" The \"me\" generation is only\nliving on the accomplishments of the past.\n\n You and I have even begun to believe the pessimists. We\nlisten in awe as the past generation tells of its triumphs. Living\nhistory they are. We are privileged to hear those who did it tell\nof it. A few weeks ago some of this very team listened in awe as\nGeneral Bernie Schriever told of his team's work - and yes struggle\n- to build this nation's Intercontinental Ballistic Missile.\n\n What stories can we tell? Blurry-eyed telescopes? Thousand\ndollar toilet seats? Even our space launch vehicles hearken only\nof that past great time. They are and seem destined to remain Gen.\nSchriever's ICBMs. I find it hard to swell with pride that the\nbest new space-lifter idea is to refurbish old Minuteman and\nPoseidon ballistic missiles.\n\n Well - The pessimists are wrong. The legacy is continuing. \nThis event is proof. To our technological parents: We've listened\nto your stories. We've caught your enthusiasm and can-do spirit. \nAnd we've learned from your achievements - and your mistakes. Let\nme honor one of you who was part of that history and the impetus\nbehind this history - Max Hunter. You are one of the greatest\nengineers of the firts great age of space exploration. Your\ninsight and discipline built the Thor ICBM - later incorporated\ninto today's most successful launch vehicle - The Delta.\n\n You told us in the 60's that a new form of launch vehicle - a\nsingle stage reusable rocket - can and should be built. You\nadvocated this idea tirelessly. It was elegantly simple, as are\nall great breakthroughs. You showed us how to build it. You\nconvinced us it could be done. You are working by our side to weld\nits components into place. Most important - you reminded us of a\nprime engineering principle - undoubtably one you learned from the\ngeneration before you - the generation that built transcontinental\naviation in the 1920's and 30's - build a little and test a little\nand Max, you passed all of this on to people like Pat Ladner who\nstarted this program for the SDI.\n\n Douglas Aircraft didn't start with a DC-10. They didn't even\nstart with a DC-3. Our grandfathers built a little, tested a\nlittle - even sold a little and made a little money - before they\nmoved on to the next step. They didn't take a decade or more\nbefore putting the first \"rubber on the road.\" Max Hunter - you\ndidn't take ten years to build Thor, and by God we're not going to\ntake ten years to show that low cost, single stage, reusable\naerospace transportation is real.\n\n We ended the cold war in a few short years. It took the same\nteam here today but a few years to show through the Strategic\nDefense Initiative that the cold war must end. We - you and us -\nlaunched a series of satellites - The Delta experiments - in about\na year apiece. This, more than anything else signaled our\ncommitment to end the impasse between ourselves and the Soviet\nUnion. Those who made the decisions on both sides have underscored\nthe importance of our work in bringing about a new international\nrelationship.\n\n But it is the same team which is now putting in place the\nframework for an aerospace expansion that is our legacy for the\nnext generation. We will make space access routine and affordable.\n\n We built this magnificent flying machine in two years. This\nsummer a true rocket ship will take off and land on earth for the\nfirst time. Then we can and surely will build in the next three\nyears a reusable sub-orbital rocket. It will allow us to use space\nrapidly, affordably, and efficiently as no other nation can. And\nyes - we'll make a little money off it too!\n\n Then - and only then - we'll spend another three years to\nbuild a fully reusable single stage to orbit system. The DC-3 of\nspace will be a reality! We may even be able to use some of the\nrocket propulsion breakthroughs of our former cold war adversaries. \nWhat a wonderful irony if this SDI product and Russian efforts to\ncounter SDI merge to power mankind's next step to the stars!\n\n To be sure, we must guard against the temptations to leap to\nthe final answer. Robert Goddard's first rockets weren't Saturn\nV's! If we succumb to the temptation to ask for just a few extra\ndollars and a few more years to jump immediately to a full orbital\nsystem - we will fail. Max Hunter and his colleagues showed the\nway. Three years and a cloud of dust - in our case rocket\nexhausts. There is no short-cut. If we expect to reshape the\nworld again - we must do it one brick at a time. Minds on tasks at\nhand!", "\nI do not understand what you are saying here. What is improved, what \nis Significant, and what does this have to do with carrying more \nequipment on a servicing mission? Also, as implied by other posters, why \ndo you need to boost the orbit on this mission anyway? Maybe you have \nsomething here, but could you please clarify it for us on the net? \n\n\nFrom what I've heard, the motors are fine - it is one of the two \nsets of electronics that control the motors that needs a fix. The \nmotors and electronics are separate pieces of hardware. I expect \nto be corrected if I'm wrong on this. ", "\n\nOops, sorry, my words, not the words of the Qur'an.\n\n\nNote that \"(the celestial bodies)\" in the above verse is an\ninterpolation (which is why it is in brackets) -- it is the translator's \n(incorrect, IMHO) interpretation.\n\nHere is Maurice Bucaille's translation (he studied Arabic for his\nresearch into the Qur'an and science) of this verse:\n\n\"(God is) the One Who created the night, the day, the sun and the moon.\nEach is travelling in an orbit with its own motion.\" (Qur'an :33)\n\nThe positive aspect of this verse noted by Dr. Maurice Bucaille is that\nwhile geocentrism was the commonly accepted notion at the time (and for\na long time afterwards), there is no notion of geocentrism in this verse\n(or anywhere in the Qur'an).", "\n\n\n\nTell that to the people who run the 10-meter Keck telescope, or the \nastronomers and engineers working on the Gemini twin 8-meter telescope\nproject. It took 7 years to build Keck I and now they are building\nKeck II. According to the December 1992 Sky & Telescope, \"This\nsecond 10-meter eye will convert the facility into a binocular telescope\nwith double the light-gathering power and the ability to resolve\nthe headlights of a car some 25,000 kilometers away.\" Japan's 8.3-meter\nSubaru telescope will soon join Keck on Mauna Kea. All these telescopes\nwill work in the infrared, yes, but they are _visible light_ telescopes!\n\nAnd haven't you heard anything about adaptive optics? A lot of research\nwas done with \"Star Wars\" funding, and some is now being shared with\nastronomers. This shows great promise. Soon, probably within a few\nyears, even the largest telescopes will be able to resolve to their \ntheoretical limit _despite_ the distortions of the atmosphere.\n\nTo say that \"visible light astronomy is already a dying field\" is \npure hokum. To use the \"logic\" that things are already bad, so it doesn't\nmatter if it gets worse is absurd. Maybe common sense and logic\nare the dying fields.\n\nGeorge Krumins", "\nAh, there's the rub. And a catch-22 to boot. For the purposes of a\ncontest, you'll probably not compete if'n you can't afford the ride to get\nthere. And although lower priced delivery systems might be doable, without\ndemand its doubtful that anyone will develop a new system. Course, if a\nlow priced system existed, there might be demand... \n\nI wonder if there might be some way of structuring a contest to encourage\nlow cost payload delivery systems. The accounting methods would probably\nbe the hardest to work out. For example, would you allow Rockwell to\n'loan' you the engines? And so forth...\n\n\nThis depends on the how soon the new launch system comes on line. In other\nwords, perhaps a great deal of worthwhile technology (life support,\nnavigation, etc.) could be developed prior to a low cost launch system. \nYou wouldn't want to use the expensive stuff forever, but I'd hate to see\nfolks waiting to do anything until a low cost Mac, oops, I mean launch\nsystem comes on line.\n\nI guess I'd simplify this to say that 'waste' is a slippery concept. If\nyour goal is manned lunar exploration in the next 5 years, then perhaps its\nnot 'wasted' money. If your goal is to explore the moon for under $500\nmillion, then you should put of this exploration for a decade or so.\n\nCraig\n", "\nNo, the thing is designed to be retrievable, in a pinch. Indeed, this\ndictated a rather odd design for the solar arrays, since they had to be\nretractable as well as extendable, and may thus have indirectly contributed\nto the array-flapping problems.\n\nThe retrieval problems are exactly as stated: it would be costly, would\ninvolve extensive downtime (and the worry of someone finding a reason not\nto re-launch it), and would unnecessarily expose the telescope to a lot\nof mechanical stresses and possibilities for contamination.", "\n\n >Very cost effective if you use the right accounting method :-)\n\n Sherzer Methodology!!!!!!\n\nHell, yes. I'm not going to let a bunch of seven suits tell\nme what the right way to estimate cost effectiveness is, at\nleast not until they can make their mind up long enough\nto leave their scheme stable for a fiscal year or two.\n\n\nSeriously though. If you were to ask the British government\nwhether their colonisation efforts in the Americas were cost\neffective, what answer do you think you'd get? What if you asked\nin 1765, 1815, 1865, 1915 and 1945 respectively? ;-)", "\nDavid,\n\n While I disagree strongly with you on the issue of our trusting the government,\nI think you have a good idea here. There is danger that, with funding coming\nfrom asset forfeitures, the government could continue to promulgate a bad\nproduct in spite of poor acceptance. Making the product pay its way (as\nit must for private ventures) would be a good incentive for quality and\nlistening to we, the ranters. :)\n\n -mel", "\n(WITH-COUNTERFLAME-ENABLED\n\n Columbus was indeed a crank, but not in the manner you think.\n\n The fact that the world was round was well known when he set sail. It was\n also well known that the circumference was about 25K miles, and that you could\n not reach Asia bo going west with current technology -- you would neither be\n able to carry enough supplies, nor get a long enough stretch of good sailing\n weather. Nobody thought he would fall off the edge of the world. Instead,\n they expected him to die at sea.\n\n Columbus thought for no good reason that the circumference was only 16K miles,\n making the trip practical.\n\n Unfortunately for Columbus and his shipmates, the Earth's circumference is\n indeed 25K miles.\n\n Fortunately for Columbus and his shipmates, there was a stopping place right\n about where Asia would have been had the circumference been 16K miles.\n\n\n My source is the recent PBS series on Columbus.\n\n)", "\nThings could be worse. A lot worse! In the mid-eighties the\nteen/adult sci-fi comic 2000AD (Fleetway) produced a short story\nfeaturing the award winning character \"Judge Dredd\". The story\nfocussed on an advertising agency of the future who use high powered\nmulti-coloured lasers/search lights pointed at the moon to paint\nimages on the moon. Needless to say, this use hacked off a load of lovers,\nromantics and werewolfs/crazies. The ad guys got chopped, the service\ndiscontinued. A cautionary tale indeed!\n\nMarvin Batty.", "\n\nObviously not. Count rates are too low and signal rise times too long\nfor this to be possible. The CGRO, is, what, 10 meters long? You'd\nneed to time to an accuracy of nanoseconds to do this.\n\nWhat BATSE actually does is measure the relative strength in each of\nthe detectors (also as a function of photon energy). Each of the\ndetectors does not have isotropic response. To do this right one must\nmodel the scattering of photons in the material around each detector,\nand even scattering of photons off the Earth's atmosphere back onto\nthe spacecraft. I believe they have now reduced the error to about 2\ndegrees.", "\n\n\nNo. I estimate a 99 % probability the Gehrels referred to\nis Thomas Gehrels of the Spacewatch project, Kitt Peak observatory.\n\nMaybe in the 24th century they could do gamma ray spectroscopy on\ndistant asteroids with an orbiting observatory, but here in the\nprimitive 20th we have to send a probe there to get gamma ray\nspectroscopy done.\n\n\nYou have the info on Mayan Television yet?\n", "[deleted]\n[deleted]\nOk, so those scientists can get around the atmosphere with fancy\ncomputer algorythims, but have you looked ad the Hubble results, the\ndefects of the mirror are partially correctable with software (see\nthose jupiter pictures for results), but is the effects are completely\nreversable, why is there going to be a shuttle mission to fix it?\n\nThe way I see it (and please, astromomers give me a swift net-kick in\nthe butt if i'm out of the ball park), the astromers are making the\nbest of limited possiblities, there's only one hubble, and the shuttle\nmakes another in the near future a non-thought. Perhaps those self\nsame billboards could have small optical receptors of a limited kind\nmounted on the reverse sides of the mirror's (if that is what is used)\nand then the whole thing becomes a giant array telescope...\n\n-- ", "The following press release was distributed April 1 by\nNASA Headquarters.\n\nSpace Station Redesign Advisory Members Named\n\nAlong with Dr. Charles M. Vest, recently named by Vice President\nAlbert Gore to head the advisory committee on the redesign of the\nSpace Station, NASA has announced the names of representatives\nfrom government and industry and academic experts from across the\ncountry to participate in an independent review of the redesign\noptions being developed by NASA.\n\n\"I am extremely honored to have been selected to lead this\nimportant review panel. America's future in science and\ntechnology and as a world leader in space demands our utmost\nattention and care,\" said Vest. \"We have assembled a diverse\npanel of experts that, I believe, will bring the appropriate\nmeasures of insight, integrity and objectivity to this critical\ntask.\"\n\nThe advisory committee is charged with independently assessing\nvarious redesign options of the space station presented by NASA's\nredesign team, and proposing recommendations to improve\nefficiency and effectiveness of the space station program. Space\nstation international partners also are being asked to \nparticipate and will be named at a later date. The advisory\ncommittee will submit its recommendations in June.\n\nAdvisory committee members named today include:\n\nDr. Charles Vest Dr. Bobby Alford\nPresident, MIT Executive VP & Dean of Medicine\n Baylor College of Medicine\n\nMr. Jay Chabrow Dr. Paul Chu\nPresident, JMR Associates Director, Texas Center for\n Superconductivity\n University of Houston\n\nDr. Ed Crawley Dr. John Fabian\nProf of Aero & Astro President & CEO\nMIT ANSER\n\nMaj. Gen. James Fain Dr. Edward Fort\nDeputy Chief of Staff for Chancellor\nRequirements; Headquarters North Carolina AT&T\nUSAF Materials Command State University\n\nDr. Mary Good Mr. Frederick Hauck\nSenior VP of Technology President, International Technical\nAllied Signal, Inc. Underwriters\n\nDr. Lou Lanzerotti Mr. William Lilly\nChair, Space Sciences National Academy of Public\nBoard, National Research Administration\nCouncil\n\nMr. Duane McRuer Dr. Brad Parkinson\nPresident Systems Technology Prof of Astro & Aero\n Stanford University\n\nDr. Robert Seamans Dr. Lee Silver\nFormer NASA Deputy Admin. W.M. Keck Foundation Professor\n for Resource Geology\n California Institute of\n Technology", "\nPortuguese launch complex??? Gosh.... Polish are for American in the \nsame way as Portuguese are for Brazilians (I am from Brazil). There is \na joke about the Portuguese Space Agency that wanted to send a \nPortuguese astronaut to the surface of the Sun (if there is such a thing).\nHow did they solve all problems of sending a man to the surface of the \nSun??? Simple... their astronauts travelled during the night...\n\n C.O.EGALON@LARC.NASA.GOV\n\nC.O.Egalon@larc.nasa.gov", "Archive-name: space/groups\nLast-modified: $Date: 93/04/01 14:39:08 $\n\nSPACE ACTIVIST/INTEREST/RESEARCH GROUPS AND SPACE PUBLICATIONS\n\n GROUPS\n\n AIA -- Aerospace Industry Association. Professional group, with primary\n\tmembership of major aerospace firms. Headquartered in the DC area.\n\tActs as the \"voice of the aerospace industry\" -- and it's opinions\n\tare usually backed up by reams of analyses and the reputations of\n\tthe firms in AIA.\n\n\t [address needed]\n\n AIAA -- American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics.\n\tProfessional association, with somewhere about 30,000-40,000\n\tmembers. 65 local chapters around the country -- largest chapters\n\tare DC area (3000 members), LA (2100 members), San Francisco (2000\n\tmembers), Seattle/NW (1500), Houston (1200) and Orange County\n\t(1200), plus student chapters. Not a union, but acts to represent\n\taviation and space professionals (engineers, managers, financial\n\ttypes) nationwide. Holds over 30 conferences a year on space and\n\taviation topics publishes technical Journals (Aerospace Journal,\n\tJournal of Spacecraft and Rockets, etc.), technical reference books\n\tand is _THE_ source on current aerospace state of the art through\n\ttheir published papers and proceedings. Also offers continuing\n\teducation classes on aerospace design. Has over 60 technical\n\tcommittees, and over 30 committees for industry standards. AIAA acts\n\tas a professional society -- offers a centralized resume/jobs\n\tfunction, provides classes on job search, offers low-cost health and\n\tlife insurance, and lobbies for appropriate legislation (AIAA was\n\tone of the major organizations pushing for IRAs - Individual\n\tRetirement Accounts). Very active public policy arm -- works\n\tdirectly with the media, congress and government agencies as a\n\tlegislative liaison and clearinghouse for inquiries about aerospace\n\ttechnology technical issues. Reasonably non-partisan, in that they\n\trepresent the industry as a whole, and not a single company,\n\torganization, or viewpoint.\n\n\tMembership $70/yr (student memberships are less).\n\n\tAmerican Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics\n\tThe Aerospace Center\n\t370 L'Enfant Promenade, SW\n\tWashington, DC 20077-0820\n\t(202)-646-7400\n\n AMSAT - develops small satellites (since the 1960s) for a variety of\n\tuses by amateur radio enthusiasts. Has various publications,\n\tsupplies QuickTrak satellite tracking software for PC/Mac/Amiga etc.\n\n\tAmateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT)\n\tP.O. Box 27\n\tWashington, DC 20044\n\t(301)-589-6062\n\n ASERA - Australian Space Engineering and Research Association. An\n\tAustralian non-profit organisation to coordinate, promote, and\n\tconduct space R&D projects in Australia, involving both Australian\n\tand international (primarily university) collaborators. Activities\n\tinclude the development of sounding rockets, small satellites\n\t(especially microsatellites), high-altitude research balloons, and\n\tappropriate payloads. Provides student projects at all levels, and\n\tis open to any person or organisation interested in participating.\n\tPublishes a monthly newsletter and a quarterly technical journal.\n\n\tMembership $A100 (dual subscription)\n\tSubscriptions $A25 (newsletter only) $A50 (journal only)\n\n\tASERA Ltd\n\tPO Box 184\n\tRyde, NSW, Australia, 2112\n\temail: lindley@syd.dit.csiro.au\n\n BIS - British Interplanetary Society. Probably the oldest pro-space\n\tgroup, BIS publishes two excellent journals: _Spaceflight_, covering\n\tcurrent space activities, and the _Journal of the BIS_, containing\n\ttechnical papers on space activities from near-term space probes to\n\tinterstellar missions. BIS has published a design study for an\n\tinterstellar probe called _Daedalus_.\n\n\tBritish Interplanetary Society\n\t27/29 South Lambeth Road\n\tLondon SW8 1SZ\n\tENGLAND\n\n\tNo dues information available at present.\n\n ISU - International Space University. ISU is a non-profit international\n\tgraduate-level educational institution dedicated to promoting the\n\tpeaceful exploration and development of space through multi-cultural\n\tand multi-disciplinary space education and research. For further\n\tinformation on ISU's summer session program or Permanent Campus\n\tactivities please send messages to 'information@isu.isunet.edu' or\n\tcontact the ISU Executive Offices at:\n\n\tInternational Space University\n\t955 Massachusetts Avenue 7th Floor\n\tCambridge, MA 02139\n\t(617)-354-1987 (phone)\n\t(617)-354-7666 (fax)\n\n L-5 Society (defunct). Founded by Keith and Carolyn Henson in 1975 to\n\tadvocate space colonization. Its major success was in preventing US\n\tparticipation in the UN \"Moon Treaty\" in the late 1970s. Merged with\n\tthe National Space Institute in 1987, forming the National Space\n\tSociety.\n\n NSC - National Space Club. Open for general membership, but not well\n\tknown at all. Primarily comprised of professionals in aerospace\n\tindustry. Acts as information conduit and social gathering group.\n\tActive in DC, with a chapter in LA. Monthly meetings with invited\n\tspeakers who are \"heavy hitters\" in the field. Annual \"Outlook on\n\tSpace\" conference is _the_ definitive source of data on government\n\tannual planning for space programs. Cheap membership (approx\n\t$20/yr).\n\n\t [address needed]\n\n NSS - the National Space Society. NSS is a pro-space group distinguished\n\tby its network of local chapters. Supports a general agenda of space\n\tdevelopment and man-in-space, including the NASA space station.\n\tPublishes _Ad Astra_, a monthly glossy magazine, and runs Shuttle\n\tlaunch tours and Space Hotline telephone services. A major sponsor\n\tof the annual space development conference. Associated with\n\tSpacecause and Spacepac, political lobbying organizations.\n\n\tMembership $18 (youth/senior) $35 (regular).\n\n\tNational Space Society\n\tMembership Department\n\t922 Pennsylvania Avenue, S.E.\n\tWashington, DC 20003-2140\n\t(202)-543-1900\n\n Planetary Society - founded by Carl Sagan. The largest space advocacy\n\tgroup. Publishes _Planetary Report_, a monthly glossy, and has\n\tsupported SETI hardware development financially. Agenda is primarily\n\tsupport of space science, recently amended to include an\n\tinternational manned mission to Mars.\n\n\tThe Planetary Society\n\t65 North Catalina Avenue\n\tPasadena, CA 91106\n\n\tMembership $35/year.\n\n SSI - the Space Studies Institute, founded by Dr. Gerard O'Neill.\n\tPhysicist Freeman Dyson took over the Presidency of SSI after\n\tO'Neill's death in 1992. Publishes _SSI Update_, a bimonthly\n\tnewsletter describing work-in-progress. Conducts a research program\n\tincluding mass-drivers, lunar mining processes and simulants,\n\tcomposites from lunar materials, solar power satellites. Runs the\n\tbiennial Princeton Conference on Space Manufacturing.\n\n\tMembership $25/year. Senior Associates ($100/year and up) fund most\n\t SSI research.\n\n\tSpace Studies Institute\n\t258 Rosedale Road\n\tPO Box 82\n\tPrinceton, NJ 08540\n\n SEDS - Students for the Exploration and Development of Space. Founded in\n\t1980 at MIT and Princeton. SEDS is a chapter-based pro-space\n\torganization at high schools and universities around the world.\n\tEntirely student run. Each chapter is independent and coordinates\n\tits own local activities. Nationally, SEDS runs a scholarship\n\tcompetition, design contests, and holds an annual international\n\tconference and meeting in late summer.\n\n\tStudents for the Exploration and Development of Space\n\tMIT Room W20-445\n\t77 Massachusetts Avenue\n\tCambridge, MA 02139\n\t(617)-253-8897\n\temail: odyssey@athena.mit.edu\n\n\tDues determined by local chapter.\n\n SPACECAUSE - A political lobbying organization and part of the NSS\n\tFamily of Organizations. Publishes a bi-monthly newsletter,\n\tSpacecause News. Annual dues is $25. Members also receive a discount\n\ton _The Space Activist's Handbook_. Activities to support pro-space\n\tlegislation include meeting with political leaders and interacting\n\twith legislative staff. Spacecause primarily operates in the\n\tlegislative process.\n\n\tNational Office\t\t\tWest Coast Office\n\tSpacecause\t\t\tSpacecause\n\t922 Pennsylvania Ave. SE\t3435 Ocean Park Blvd.\n\tWashington, D.C. 20003\t\tSuite 201-S\n\t(202)-543-1900\t\t\tSanta Monica, CA 90405\n\n SPACEPAC - A political action committee and part of the NSS Family of\n\tOrganizations. Spacepac researches issues, policies, and candidates.\n\tEach year, updates _The Space Activist's Handbook_. Current Handbook\n\tprice is $25. While Spacepac does not have a membership, it does\n\thave regional contacts to coordinate local activity. Spacepac\n\tprimarily operates in the election process, contributing money and\n\tvolunteers to pro-space candidates.\n\n\tSpacepac\n\t922 Pennsylvania Ave. SE\n\tWashington, DC 20003\n\t(202)-543-1900\n\n UNITED STATES SPACE FOUNDATION - a public, non-profit organization\n\tsupported by member donations and dedicated to promoting\n\tinternational education, understanding and support of space. The\n\tgroup hosts an annual conference for teachers and others interested\n\tin education. Other projects include developing lesson plans that\n\tuse space to teach other basic skills such as reading. Publishes\n\t\"Spacewatch,\" a monthly B&W glossy magazine of USSF events and\n\tgeneral space news. Annual dues:\n\n\t\tCharter\t\t$50 ($100 first year)\n\t\tIndividual\t$35\n\t\tTeacher\t\t$29\n\t\tCollege student $20\n\t\tHS/Jr. High\t$10\n\t\tElementary\t $5\n\t\tFounder & $1000+\n\t\t Life Member\n\n\tUnited States Space Foundation\n\tPO Box 1838\n\tColorado Springs, CO 80901\n\t(719)-550-1000\n\n WORLD SPACE FOUNDATION - has been designing and building a solar-sail\n spacecraft for longer than any similar group; many JPL employees lend\n their talents to this project. WSF also provides partial funding for the\n Palomar Sky Survey, an extremely successful search for near-Earth\n asteroids. Publishes *Foundation News* and *Foundation Astronautics\n Notebook*, each a quarterly 4-8 page newsletter. Contributing Associate,\n minimum of $15/year (but more money always welcome to support projects).\n\n\tWorld Space Foundation\n\tPost Office Box Y\n\tSouth Pasadena, California 91301\n\n\n PUBLICATIONS\n\n Aerospace Daily (McGraw-Hill)\n\tVery good coverage of aerospace and space issues. Approx. $1400/yr.\n\n Air & Space / Smithsonian (bimonthly magazine)\n\tBox 53261\n\tBoulder, CO 80332-3261\n\t$18/year US, $24/year international\n\n ESA - The European Space Agency publishes a variety of periodicals,\n\tgenerally available free of charge. A document describing them in\n\tmore detail is in the Ames SPACE archive in\n\tpub/SPACE/FAQ/ESAPublications.\n\n Final Frontier (mass-market bimonthly magazine) - history, book reviews,\n\tgeneral-interest articles (e.g. \"The 7 Wonders of the Solar System\",\n\t\"Everything you always wanted to know about military space\n\tprograms\", etc.)\n\n\tFinal Frontier Publishing Co.\n\tPO Box 534\n\tMt. Morris, IL 61054-7852\n\t$14.95/year US, $19.95 Canada, $23.95 elsewhere\n\n Space News (weekly magazine) - covers US civil and military space\n\tprograms. Said to have good political and business but spotty\n\ttechnical coverage.\n\n\tSpace News\n\tSpringfield VA 22159-0500\n\t(703)-642-7330\n\t$75/year, may have discounts for NSS/SSI members\n\n Journal of the Astronautical Sciences and Space Times - publications of\n\tthe American Astronautical Society. No details.\n\n\tAAS Business Office\n\t6352 Rolling Mill Place, Suite #102\n\tSpringfield, VA 22152\n\t(703)-866-0020\n\n GPS World (semi-monthly) - reports on current and new uses of GPS, news\n\tand analysis of the system and policies affecting it, and technical\n\tand product issues shaping GPS applications.\n\n\tGPS World\n\t859 Willamette St.\n\tP.O. Box 10460\n\tEugene, OR 97440-2460\n\t(503)-343-1200\n\n\tFree to qualified individuals; write for free sample copy.\n\n Innovation (Space Technology) -- Free. Published by the NASA Office of\n\tAdvanced Concepts and Technology. A revised version of the NASA\n\tOffice of Commercial Programs newsletter.\n\n Planetary Encounter - in-depth technical coverage of planetary missions,\n\twith diagrams, lists of experiments, interviews with people directly\n\tinvolved.\n World Spaceflight News - in-depth technical coverage of near-Earth\n\tspaceflight. Mostly covers the shuttle: payload manifests, activity\n\tschedules, and post-mission assessment reports for every mission.\n\n\tBox 98\n\tSewell, NJ 08080\n\t$30/year US/Canada\n\t$45/year elsewhere\n\n Space (bi-monthly magazine)\n\tBritish aerospace trade journal. Very good. $75/year.\n\n Space Calendar (weekly newsletter)\n\n Space Daily/Space Fax Daily (newsletter)\n\tShort (1 paragraph) news notes. Available online for a fee\n\t(unknown).\n\n Space Technology Investor/Commercial Space News -- irregular Internet\n\tcolumn on aspects of commercial space business. Free. Also limited\n\tfax and paper edition.\n\n\t P.O. Box 2452\n\t Seal Beach, CA 90740-1452.\n\n All the following are published by:\n\n\tPhillips Business Information, Inc.\n\t7811 Montrose Road\n\tPotomac, MC 20854\n\n\tAerospace Financial News - $595/year.\n\tDefense Daily - Very good coverage of space and defense issues.\n\t $1395/year.\n\tSpace Business News (bi-weekly) - Very good overview of space\n\t business activities. $497/year.\n\tSpace Exploration Technology (bi-weekly) - $495/year.\n\tSpace Station News (bi-weekly) - $497/year.\n\n UNDOCUMENTED GROUPS\n\n\tAnyone who would care to write up descriptions of the following\n\tgroups (or others not mentioned) for inclusion in the answer is\n\tencouraged to do so.\n\n\tAAS - American Astronautical Society\n\tOther groups not mentioned above", "Let's see. These aren't, in a strict sense, amateur rockets. That term\ndenotes rockets, the engines of which are constructed by the user. The\nrockets you describe are called HPR, or high power rockets, to\ndistinguish them from (smaller) model rockets. They use factory-made\nammonium perchlorate composite propellants in phenolic plastic engines\nwith graphite nozzles. The engines are classified by impulse. A \"D\"\nengine, for example, can have no more than 20 newton-seconds of impulse.\nAn \"F\" engine can have no more than 40 ns. Each letter corresponds to a\ndoubling of the maximum impulse. So far, engines up to size \"O\" are\navailable pretty much off the shelf. Engines of size H and above are\nshipped as Class B explosives, and as such are controlled. Engines of\nsize F and below are shipped as Class C explosives, and are not as\ncontrolled. Class F engines, BTW, are not HPR engines, but model rocket\nengines. (Class G engines go in and out of legal limbo.)\n\nThere is an HPR Society, The Tripoli Rocket Society, I believe, which\nholds events at various sites throughout the year, with all legalities\n(FAA waiver included) taken care of. The National Association of\nRocketry is more concerned with engines below H, though it is involved\nin HPR as well. These societies certify users of HPR rockets, and\ncompanies will not sell to uncertified individuals.\n\nBottom Line: It's legit. I suggest you send for a catalog - but forget\nthe dynamite, will ya?", "Two developments have brought these type of activities back to\nthe forefront in 1993. First, in February, the Russians deployed a\n20-m reflector from a Progress vehicle after it had departed from\nthe Mir Space Station. While this \"Banner\" reflector was blank,\nNPO Energia was very active in reporting that future Banner\nreflectors will be available to advertisers, who could use a space-\nbased video of their logo or ad printed on the Banner in a TV\ncommercial, as filmed from the Mir.\n The second development, has been that Space Marketing Inc, the\nsame company responsible for merchandising space on the Conestoga\nbooster and COMET spacecraft, is now pushing the \"Environmental\nBillboard\". As laid out by SMI Chief Engineer Dr Ron Humble of the\nUniversity of Colorado Space Laboratory and Preston Carter of the\nLawrence Livermore National Laboratory, the \"Environmental\nBillboard\" is a large inflatable outer support structure of up to\n804x1609 meters. Advertising is carried by a mylar reflective area,\ndeployed by the inflatable 'frame'.\n To help sell the concept, the spacecraft responsible for\nmaintaining the billboard on orbit will carry \"ozone reading\nsensors\" to \"continuously monitor the condition of the Earth's\ndelicate protective ozone layer,\" according to Mike Lawson, head of\nSMI. Furthermore, the inflatable billboard has reached its minimum\nexposure of 30 days it will be released to re-enter the Earth's\natmosphere. According to IMI, \"as the biodegradable material burns,\nit will release ozone-building components that will literally\nreplenish the ozone layer.\" The remaining spacecraft will monitor\nthe atmosphere for another year before it, too, re-enters and burns\nup and \"adds to the ozone supply.\"\n This would not be a cheap advertisement, costing at least several\nmillions of dollars (exact costs were not available). But SMI\nestimates that market exposure would be 3-5X that of the people who\nwatched the SuperBowl, where a 30-second advertising 'unit' cost\n$600,000. Since SMI is located in Atlanta, Georgia, it is being\npromoted as being available in time for the opening of the 1996\nSummer Olympics in Atlanta.\n \nBut back to Brian's questions:\n \n See above. As for serious -- if they can get $15-20 M or so (my\nestimate of $5-10 for development costs and a flight unit, plus\n$10-15 M for a launch), then it's probably real. They are claiming to\ntailor the orbit to overfly specific locations at specific times for\noptimum advertising impact so they probably can't piggy back upon\nsomeone else's planned launch and will have to buy a dedicated\nlaunch. That's a $10-15 M cost they need to raise, right there.\n And there will probably be some legal challenges to this as\nwell. Note there is one potential legal challenge to SMI on the use\nof launch vehicle advertising already. While I don't think the\nlegal challenges would win out (and yes, I am an amateur astronomer,\nand no, I don't really like the idea of this additional light\npollution, but I know of no prohibition of it...), the legal\nchallenges and court fights would probably remove any positive\naspects of the advertising. I can imagine several ways to make the\nadvertisers look like louts for doing this -- which would change\npositive market exposure to negative market exposure, and negate the\nspace advertising advantage. (Would you spend $15 M to look like an\nidiot?)\n (And light pollution might not be too bad -- if it's in a low\nenough orbit, and it relies upon reflected light only, it would\nonly be visible for a short time just after local dusk and before\ndawn. For maximum market exposure, you want to have it visible just\nafter dusk --minimizing impact on astronomy, since that's the time\nof worse seeing due to day/night thermal turbulence. It might still\nbe a problem, but perhaps there are ways to mitigate this...)\n As for having real funding -- none that I can identify. There\nwere about 60 expressions of interest made on the Conestoga\nadvertising opportunity, but that included curious folks and was for\nonly a $500,000 commitment. I haven't heard of any serious funding\nfor this, but I'm sure they are shopping the venture around looking\nfor some money in order to flesh out the concept some more. But I\nam confident there are no firm or paying customers at this time.\n \n And if anybody wants to cross-post this to sci.astro, please be\nmy guest. I don't have posting privileges to that area (or at least\nI don't THINK I do...).\n -------------------------------------------------------------------\n Wales Larrison Space Technology Investor", "I feel compelled to complain: the statement that recent observations\nrule out merging neutron stars as sources of gamma-ray bursts is\nutterly false, even though it is popular enough to make it to\nBATSE press releases.\nThe idea behind the statement is as follows: \n \"if you smack two neutron\n stars together, or have a neutron star be gobbled up by a black hole,\n a lot of energy is released, enough for a gamma-ray burst at a\n cosmological distance. But, so the reasoning continues, this energy \n is released below a lot of matter, so the radiation becomes\n thermalized and you expect to see roughly a blackbody spectrum.\n The observed spectra are strongly non-thermal, so this model must\n be wrong.\"\nAs so often, the fault lies with the imagination of the person who\nwas trying to prove the model wrong rather than with the model. It\nmay be that the initial energy release is not seen as a gamma-ray\nburst, but the 'fireball' of energy and matter that is created\nmay spew out a relativistic flow. When this slams into the surrounding \nmedium, a strong flux of non-thermal gamma rays results, which may\ncarry off a substantial fraction of the initial total energy. All\nthis is not my idea: it is in a series of papers by Martin Rees,\nPeter Meszaros (sorry for the missing accents:-) and co-workers.\nIt is certainly not a complete model, but it may well be the best one\naround (summing over all proposed distance scales). An alternative\nproposal for what creates the initial fireball, by the way, is the \nso-called 'failed supernovae' scenario by Stan Woosley, in which\na very massive star at the end of its life collapses to a black\nhole. If the stellar core was rotating, part of the infalling matter\nwill be temporarily halted because it is supported by centrifugal\nforce, and form a very dense neutron torus that accretes onto the\nblack hole. This beast may spew out a jet along the rotation axis,\nwhich again constitutes relativistic flow. The rate of such\nevents may be much higher than that of neutron star mergers,\nbut the flux may be more strongly beamed, so that the net rate\nof bursts observed on Earth stays the same between the two\nscenarios, but the energy released per event can be a lot less\nin the failed supernova scenario.\n\nOn another note: I do believe that the distance scale must \nultimately be resolved via some classical astronomical method\nsuch as finding counterparts to the bursts at other wavelengths,\nor finding a definitive signature of some known class of\nobjects in the distribution of positions and fluxes. Theorists\nhave historically not been too successfull in finding the\ndistance of any object by proving that there is only one\npossible way in which the object can work, and therefore\nit *must* be so-and-so.", "\n#@$#%$!! I *have* a copy of Allen, and it never occurred to me to look\nin there... I must be getting old... I'll look it up when I get home.\nThanks.\n\n\nI'd remembered a rather higher number, but that may have been for the\nlunar nearside, where the Earth is a significant heat source.", "\n\n\n\nYes, long before Star Trek. Before Einstein, in fact.\n\nVulcan as a planet inside Mercury was hypothesized to explain a perturbation\nof Mercury's orbit that could not be explained by the known planets. But\nEinstein's theory of relativity explained Mercury's motion, and analysis\nof Mercury's motion now shows there are _not_ any planets inside its orbit.", "\n\n\nfc> Exactly what fraction of current research is done on the big, \nfc> visable light telescopes? From what I've seen, 10% or less \nfc> (down from amlost 100% 25 years ago.) That sounds like \"dying\"\nfc> to me...\n\n That doesn't seem like a fair comparison. Infrared astronomy \n didn't really get started until something like 25 yrs. ago; it\n didn't explode until IRAS in 1983. Gamma-ray (and I think \n X-ray) observations didn't really get started until the '70s.\n I believe the same is true of ultraviolet observations in \n general, and I know that extreme UV (short of 1000 Angstroms)\n observations, until the EUVE (launched last year) had almost \n no history except a few observations on Skylab in the '70s.\n\n Twenty-five years ago, the vast majority of astronomers only \n had access to optical or radio instruments. Now, with far more\n instruments available, growth in some of these new fields has\n resulted in optical work representing a smaller fraction of \n total astronomical work.\n\n\n\nfc> That would be true, if adaptive optics worked well in the visable.\nfc> But take a look at the papers on the subject: They refer to anything\nfc> up to 100 microns as \"visable\". I don't know about you, but most\nfc> people have trouble seeing beyond 7 microns or so... There are\nfc> reasons to think adaptive optics will not work at shorter \nfc> wavelengths without truely radical improvements in technology.\n\n Hmm, some of the folks in this department planning on using \n adaptive optics at the 5 m at Palomar for near-infrared \n observations (1 and 2 microns) might be surprised to hear this.\n\n And isn't the NTT already pushing toward 0.1 arcsecond resolution, \n from a ground-based site (remember 0.1 arcseconds was one of the \n selling points of HST).\n\n\n\n\n", ": Mike Adams suggested discussions on long-term effects of spaceflight\n: to the human being. I love this topic, as some of you regulars know.\n\n: So, having seen Henry's encouraging statement about starting to talk\n: about it; I shall.\n\n: I feel that we as a community of people have unique resources\n: to deliver to the world a comprehensive book which can elaborate\n: on the utility of spaceflight to fields which are as divergent \n: as medical intensive care, agriculture, environmental protection, and \n: probably more. I do not believe that the general public understands\n: the impact of spaceflight on the whole of society. In the absence\n: of such knowledge, we see dwindling support of the world's space effort.\n\nJust a few contributions from the space program to \"regular\" society:\n\n1.\tCalculators\n2.\tTeflon (So your eggs don't stick in the pan)\n3.\tPacemakers (Kept my grandfather alive from 1976 until 1988)\n\n\np.s. To all the regular contributors to sci.space.news and\nsci.space.shuttle, thanks for all your hard work keeping us informed\nas to the doings down in NASA and other space-type agencies. I don't\nhave much time to read USENET, but I ALWAYS read these two groups....\n", "For an essay, I am writing about the space shuttle and a need for a better\npropulsion system. Through research, I have found that it is rather clumsy \n(i.e. all the checks/tests before launch), the safety hazards (\"sitting\non a hydrogen bomb\"), etc.. If you have any beefs about the current\nspace shuttle program Re: propulsion, please send me your ideas.\n\nThanks a lot.\n", "What evidence indicates that Gamma Ray bursters are very far away?\n\nGiven the enormous power, i was just wondering, what if they are\nquantum black holes or something like that fairly close by?\n\nWhy would they have to be at galactic ranges? \n\nmy own pet theory is that it's Flying saucers entering\nhyperspace :-)\n\nbut the reason i am asking is that most everyone assumes that they\nare colliding nuetron stars or spinning black holes, i just wondered\nif any mechanism could exist and place them closer in.", "\nWhatabout, Schools, Universities, Rich Individuals (around 250 people \nin the UK have more than 10 million dollars each). I reecieved mail\nfrom people who claimed they might get a person into space for $500\nper pound. Send a skinny person into space and split the rest of the money\namong the ground crew!\nAgreed. I volunteer for any UK attempts. But one clause: No launch methods\nwhich are clearly dangerous to the environment (ours or someone else's). No\nusage of materials from areas of planetary importance.\n\n\nYes: We should *do* this rather than talk about it. Lobby people!\nThe major problem with the space programmes is all talk/paperwork and\nno action!\n\n\n", "\nThanks for typing that in, Steven. Sounds like a \"fall back and\nregroup\" strategy session.\n\nI wanted to add that my copy of the brochure arrived with a flattering\ncover letter:\n\n\"Invitations are being extended to those who have demonstrated a\nstrong committment to space program development and have been\ninfluential in its advancement. We sincerely hope you will be able to\nattend.\"\n\nWow! I wonder which of my contributions to the conquest of space\nconvinced them to send me this letter?\n\nI hope you decide to go, Pat. The Net can use some eyes and ears\nthere...", "\nHere is a computation I did a long time ago that computes the length\nof the daylight. You should be able to convert the information here\nto sunrise and sunset times.\n\n--\nRouben Rostamian Telephone: 410-455-2458\nDepartment of Mathematics and Statistics e-mail:\nUniversity of Maryland Baltimore County bitnet: rostamian@umbc.bitnet\nBaltimore, MD 21228, USA internet: rouben@math.umbc.edu\n======================================================================\nDefinitions:\n\nz = the tilt of the axis of the planet away from the normal to its\norbital plane. In case of the Earth z is about 23.5 degrees, I think.\nI do not recall the exact value. In case of Uranus, z is almost\n90 degrees.\n\nu = latitude of the location where the length of the day is measured.\nParis is at about 45 degrees. North pole is at 90.\n\na = angular position of the planet around the sun. As a goes from\n0 to 360 degrees, the planet makes a full circle around the sun.\nThe spring equinox occurs at a=0.\n\nL = daylight fraction = (duration of daylight)/(duration of a full day).\nOn the equator (u=0) L is always 1/2. Near the north pole (u=90 degrees)\nL is sometimes one and sometimes zero, depending on the time of the year.\n\nComputation:\nDefine the auxiliary angles p and q by:\nsin p = sin a sin z\ncos q = h ( tan u tan p ), (0 < q < 180 degrees)\n\nConclusion:\nL = q / 180 (if q is measured in degrees)\nL = q / pi (if q is measured in radians)\n\nWait! But what is h?\nThe cutoff function h is defined as follows:\n\nh (s) = s if |s| < 1\n = 1 if s > 1\n = -1 if s < 1\n\nAs an interesting exercise, plot L versus a. The graph will shows\nhow the length of the daylight varies with the time of the year.\nExperiment with various choices of latitudes and tilt angles.\nCompare the behavior of the function at locations above and below\nthe arctic circle.\n", "Actually, they are legal! I not familiar with the ad you are speaking of\nbut knowing Popular Science it is probably on the fringe. However, you\nmay be speaking of \"Public Missle, Inc.\", which is a legitimate company\nthat has been around for a while.\n\nDue to advances in composite fuels, engines are now available for model\nrockets using similar composites to SRB fuel, roughly 3 times more \npowerful than black powder motors. They are even available in a reloadable\nform, i.e. aluminum casing, end casings, o-rings (!). The engines range\nfrom D all the way to M in common manufacture, N and O I've heard of\nused at special occasions.\n\nTo be a model rocket, however, the rocket can't contain any metal \nstructural parts, amongst other requirements. I've never heard of a\nmodel rocket doing 50,000. I have heard of > 20,000 foot flights.\nThese require FAA waivers (of course!). There are a few large national\nlaunches (LDRS, FireBALLS), at which you can see many > K sized engine\nflights. Actually, using a > G engine constitutes the area of \"High\nPower Rocketry\", which is seperate from normal model rocketry. Purchase\nof engines like I have been describing require membership in the National\nAssociation of Rocketry, the Tripoli Rocketry Assoc., or you have to\nbe part of an educational institute or company involved in rocketry.\n\nAmatuer rocketry is another area. I'm not really familiar with this,\nbut it is an area where metal parts are allowed, along with liquid fuels\nand what not. I don't know what kind of regulations are involved, but\nI'm sure they are numerous.", "...\n\nSeen that movie already. Or one just like it.\nCome to think of it, they might send someone on\na quest to get rid of the dang thing...\n\n", "\n You might try the rec.models.rockets newsgroup. Interesting stuff,\nsome of it should probably be classified as artillery.\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------", "\n\nYes, but that's because interstellar grains are very poor radiators, not\nremotely black bodies. As a consequence they are a lot warmer than the\n\"ambient\".\n \n\nWhen I was in graduate school, a long time ago, we used 10,000 deg K with\na DILUTION FACTOR of 10+4 for representative values of the radiant energy\nbackground in the galaxy due to starlight. ", "Being wierd again, so be warned:\n\nIs there a plan to put a satellite around each planet in the solar system to\nkeep watch? I help it better to ask questions before I spout an opinion.\n\nHow about a mission (unmanned) to Pluto to stay in orbit and record things\naround and near and on Pluto.. I know it is a strange idea, but why not??\nIt could do some scanning of not only Pluto, but also of the solar system,\nobjects near and aaroundpluto, as well as SETI and looking at the galaxy\nwithout having much of the solar system to worry about..", "\nI don't know. Does anyone in NASA land know how much fuel is\nbudgeted for the altitude change?\n\nHenry, any figures on the mass (full) for the EDO pallet plus\nit's dry weight? How about for the dry mass of Bus-1? it was\nbeing de-classified as i checked last.\n\nAlso, I need.\n\n1) current orbital parameters of HST \n\n2) projected orbital parameters after re-boost.\n\n3) Discovery's DRY weight\n\n4) HST's Dry weight.\n\n\n\nSo how long do they need to train? a year? 2 years? somehow\nI think 2-3 moths should be adequate.\n\n\nAlso because they significantly lacked on-orbit EVA experience. \nThe HST is designed for on-orbit servicing. it should be a lot easier.\n\n\nThere comes a time in every project, to kill the management.\n\nThey can if neccessary, re-schedule the HST mission. December is\nnot a drop dead date, unlike say the LDEF retrieval mission. \n\n\n\nI suspect, the BUS-1, may not have enough basic thrust for the HST\nre-boost. it mayu need bigger tanks, or bigger thrusters.\n\n\nMy understanding is the Second HST servicing mission is not\na contingency. My understanding is the mission needs both\na new FOC and work on the electrical system, plus\nanother re-boost. \n\n\nSomehow, i think the cost of an expendable SMT will be less then\n$500 million.\n\nand the extra stuff is real cheap. NASA has lots of suits, MMU's,\nand the EDO pallets are re-usable. Oh, one double magnum of champagne,\nnow there's a couple hundred bucks.\n\n\n\n\n\nThat door has cycled, X times already. Once after massive G loading.\nI somehow think they can work ou;reliability methods to ensure the\ndoor works.\n\nAlso, please tell me how some sort of sublimated material like\nCO2, or H2O would manage to contaminate the mirror, anything\nthat goes to vapor state, shouldn't adhere to the mirror.\n\nsomehow, the door, problem can be worked. maybe they can put a one\ntime spring on it.\n\nwhat do they do now, if the door hangs up. that door is part\nof a intrument safing mechanism. if it hangs up tomorrow, it'll\nbe 8 months until someone gets up there witha crowbar to fix it.", ": >the Single Launch Core Station concept. A Shuttle external tank and solid\n: >rocket boosters would be used to launch the station into orbit. Shuttle\n: >main engines would be mounted to the tail of the station module for launch\n: >and jettisoned after ET separation.\n\nKarl Dishaw (0004244402@mcimail.com) replied:\n: Why jettison the SSMEs? Why not hold on to them and have a shuttle \n: bring them down to use as spares?\n\nOne performance reason comes to mind: if you jettison the SSME's, you\ndon't have to drag them with you when you perform your circularization\nburn(s). On-orbit, SSME's are just dead weight, since we don't have an\nSSME H2/O2 pressurization mechanism which works in zero-G. This means\nthat you can't use them for re-boost or anything else. Dead weight has\na couple of advantages, but more disadvantages.\n\nThrow-away SSME's might let us use some of the old SSME's which are not-\nquite-man-ratable. But I doubt we'd do that; the cost of a launch\nfailure is too high.\n\n-- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office\n kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (713) 483-4368", "The amount of energy being spent on ONE LOUSY SYLLOGISM says volumes for the\ntrue position of reason in this group.", "\nAh I love posts like this. Many people have already replied to this one as I\nknew they would. I'm not going to say much as this just seems like baiting to\nme. Someone decided to post to see how many people would get mad and reply. I\nam just going to ignore it but I do have one thing to say. See below.\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nListen buddy, if you're going to quote Star Trek get the quote right. It was\n\"Resistance is futile\". Get it right the next time :-)\n\nJason - u28037@uicvm.cc.uic.edu\n", "\n\n > Why Paul, it's obvious.\n > Once chlorine chemistry has been banned on Earth,\n > as is being advocated by some groups, Ti prices will\n\n > :-) :-) :-) \n\n Well, there already is a sulfate process for TiO2 purification. The\n chlorine process is cleaner, however, and for that reason is achieving\n dominance in the marketplace.\n\nDarn, caught by the white hot heat of technological progress again...\n\n Most Ti is used in pigment, btw (as the oxide), where it replaced\n white lead pigment some decades ago. Very little is reduced to the\n metal.\n\nSpoilsport. Hence the need for increasing fashion\nemphasis on anodise Ti jewelry...\n\n > Seriously, I'd say there is a flaw in Gary's analysis\n > in that he assumes an export oriented economy, maybe\n > the lunatics will just want some native Ti for local\n > use...\n\n Which merely evades the issue of why those lunatics are\n there at all (and, why their children would want to stay.)\n\nI did not evade the issue at all. I clearly stated that\nthis would be from diabolical foresight in establishing\na sheltered industrial base for the upcoming Great War ;-)\nVery cost effective if you use the right accounting method :-)", "...\nI believe that my former employer Hughes Aircraft Company has a working Ion \nPropulsion system for satellites.", "\n\nUnfortunately, things have been boding ill (is that a legitimate conjugation?)\nfor a while. While the Office of Exploration had some great ideas, they never\ngot much money. I've heard good things about Griffin, but it's hard to want\nhim back in a job where he couldn't do anything.\n\n\nThe group examining the Freedom-based space station redesign proposals is \nheaded by Michael Griffin, \"NASA's cheif engineer\" in the words of Space News.\nI believe this is him.\n", "Background: The Orion spacedrive was a theoretical concept. It\nwould be a drive using thermonuclear explosions to drive a spacecraft.\nThe idea was that you'd detonate devices with somewhere from one to\nten megatons yield behind a \"pusher plate\" attached to the main\nspacecraft. The shock wave from the explosions would transfer\nmomentum to the ship.\n\n Now, in an atmosphere I can see this. The energy of the explosion\nheats the atmosphere, which expands explosively and slams a shock wave\ninto the pusher plate. But in a vacuum, only two things I can see are\ngoing to hit the plate: fission/fusion products (barium, krypton,\nhelium, neutrons, evaporated bomb casing) and electromagnetic\nradiation (gammas mostly, some light/heat from irradiated fission\nproducts).\n\n Would this work? I can't see the EM radiation impelling very much\nmomentum (especially given the mass of the pusher plate), and it seems\nto me you're going to get more momentum transfer throwing the bombs\nout the back of the ship than you get from detonating them once\nthey're there.\n\n I must be missing something. Would someone enlighten me via email?\n\n Thanks.\n\n-- \n\t--Jim\n", "That's assuming it could get built by them.\n\nOf course, it would probably sport Cruise missile Racks,\nSidewinder Missile tubes, Bomb Points, extra drop tanks,\na Full ECM suite, Terrain following radar and stealth\nmaterials.\n\nIT might not fly, but a technology demonstrator does\nnot require actual flight.", "\nHans> As somebody replied on whether the space shuttle is connected to\nHans> Usenet: \"No. Of course the main flow of information would be up,\nHans> unless Henry Spencer would be aboard, in which case the main\nHans> flow of information would be down.\"\n\nGene Miya says that Henry will never go aloft in the Shuttle; the\npayload bay isn't big enough for his chocolate chip cookies.\n\nWhen Henry was here at Dryden, he was looking pretty covetously at the\nSR-71s and the F-104s, even though they don't have much cookie space.\nI guess he figured that he could manage for a short flight....", "In my first posting on this subject I threw out an idea of how to fund\nsuch a contest without delving to deep into the budget. I mentioned\ngranting mineral rights to the winner (my actual wording was, \"mining\nrights.) Somebody pointed out, quite correctly, that such rights are\nnot anybody's to grant (although I imagine it would be a fait accompli\nsituation for the winner.) So how about this? Give the winning group\n(I can't see one company or corp doing it) a 10, 20, or 50 year\nmoratorium on taxes.", "Hello out there,\nIf your familiar with the COMET program then this concerns you.\nCOMET is scheduled to be launched from Wallops Island sometime in June.\nDoes anyone know if an official launch date has been set?", "\n\nIf I may offer a constructive criticism, perhaps you should decide if you\nlove vehicles or the use they are put to. I, myself, think the F-86 is\na beautiful aircraft, but rest assured, I wouldn't even think of flying\nit in combat today. Most of us want access to space and judge vehicles\non how they perform.\n\n\nNot to this degree.\n\n\nWhy?\n\n\nYour wrong. The DC approach is very tollerent of failure. It also has\nthe advantage of far greater reliability do to its reusable nature (Shuttle\nisn't reusable, it's salvagable).\n\n\nThe flip over happens at a very low speed, not supersonic. If the DC-X\nshows the flip over works, it will work unless the laws of physics change.\n\n\nThe final DC-1 will have fully intact abort throughout the entire flight\nenvelop. Upon re-entry for example, it can loose about 80% of available\nthrust and still land safely.\n\n\nEverything can suffer from catastrophic failure but that's not the same\nthing. Shuttle simply isn't a fault tolerent design, SSTO is.\n\n\nYou don't put your patients in conditions where there is no way out. You\nwouldn't for example, give a patient a drug and not monitor them for\nharmful side effects would you?\n\n\nYou are very much in the minority. If the DC series fails to make orbit, it\nwill still be a very worthwhile effort. It will show us EXACTLY what we do\nneed to do to build SSTO.\n\n\nAgain, refering to the DC-1, it will provide fully intact abort theroughout\nthe flight envelop. Shuttle doesn't. DC is fault tollerent, Shuttle isn't.\n\n\nNot true. Build a passenger pallet (a fairly easy thing to do) and it will\ncarry passengers.\n\n\nI would suggest you talk to the DC-X crew themselves. Their original\nschedule had an operational DC-1 flying in 96.\n\n\nYour ignoring the dammage it does. Mannes space has a reputation for being\nunreliable and hugely expensive. Shuttle supporters only make it easy for\nopponents of manned space to kill it.\n\n\nThe only way to prove those things is to build it.\n\n Allen\n", "A bright light phenomenon was observed in the Eastern Finland\n on April 21. At 00.25 UT two people saw a bright, luminous\n pillar-shaped phenomenon in the low eastern horizont near\n Mikkeli. The head of the pillar was circular. The lower part\n was a little winding. It was like a monster they told. They\n were little frightened. Soon the yellowish pillar became\n enlarged. A bright spot like the Sun was appeared in the middle\n of the phenomenon. At last the light landed behind the nearby\n forest. Now there was only luminous trails in the sky which were\n visible till morning sunrise.\n\n The same phenomenon was observed also by Jaakko Kokkonen in\n Lappeenranta. At 00.26 UT he saw a luminous yellowish trail in\n the low northeastern horizont. The altitude of the trail was\n only about 3-4 degrees. Soon the trail began to grow taller.\n A loop was appeared in the head of the trail. It was like a\n spoon. This lasted only 10 seconds. Now the altitude was about\n five degress above horizont. He noted a bright spot at the\n upper stage of loop. The spot was at magnitude -2. The loop\n became enlarged and the spot was now visible in the middle of\n the loop. A cartwheel-shaped trail was appeared round the bright\n spot. After a minute the spot disappeared and only fuzzy trails\n were only visible in the low horizont. Luminous trails were still\n visible at 01.45 UT in the morning sky.\n\n The phenomenon was caused by a Russian rocket. I don't know if\n there were satellite launches in Plesetsk Cosmodrome near\n Arkhangelsk, but this may be a rocket experiment too. Since 1969\n we have observed over 80 rocket phenomena in Finland. Most of\n these are rocket experiments (military missile tests?), barium\n experiments and other chemical releases. During these years we\n have observed 17 satellite launches.\n\n Leo Wikholm", "\n\n\nIf you want to have some fun.\n\nPlug the basic formulas into Lotus.\n\nUse the spreadsheet auto re-calc, and graphing functions\nto produce bar graphs based on latitude, tilt and hours of day light avg.\n", "I thought that under emergency conditions, the STS can\nput down at any good size Airport. IF it could take a C-5 or a\n747, then it can take an orbiter. You just need a VOR/TAC\n\nI don't know if they need ILS.\n\npat", "\n\n\nBut Allen, if you can assume the existence of an SSTO there is no need\nto have the contest in the first place. I would think that what we\nwant to get out of the contest is the development of some of these\n'cheaper' ways of doing things; if they already exist, why flush $1G\njust to get someone to go to the Moon for a year?\n\n-- \n\"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live\n in the real world.\" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden", "Archive-name: space/probe\nLast-modified: $Date: 93/04/01 14:39:19 $\n\nPLANETARY PROBES - HISTORICAL MISSIONS\n\n This section was lightly adapted from an original posting by Larry Klaes\n (klaes@verga.enet.dec.com), mostly minor formatting changes. Matthew\n Wiener (weemba@libra.wistar.upenn.edu) contributed the section on\n Voyager, and the section on Sakigake was obtained from ISAS material\n posted by Yoshiro Yamada (yamada@yscvax.ysc.go.jp).\n\nUS PLANETARY MISSIONS\n\n\n MARINER (VENUS, MARS, & MERCURY FLYBYS AND ORBITERS)\n\n MARINER 1, the first U.S. attempt to send a spacecraft to Venus, failed\n minutes after launch in 1962. The guidance instructions from the ground\n stopped reaching the rocket due to a problem with its antenna, so the\n onboard computer took control. However, there turned out to be a bug in\n the guidance software, and the rocket promptly went off course, so the\n Range Safety Officer destroyed it. Although the bug is sometimes claimed\n to have been an incorrect FORTRAN DO statement, it was actually a\n transcription error in which the bar (indicating smoothing) was omitted\n from the expression \"R-dot-bar sub n\" (nth smoothed value of derivative\n of radius). This error led the software to treat normal minor variations\n of velocity as if they were serious, leading to incorrect compensation.\n\n MARINER 2 became the first successful probe to flyby Venus in December\n of 1962, and it returned information which confirmed that Venus is a\n very hot (800 degrees Fahrenheit, now revised to 900 degrees F.) world\n with a cloud-covered atmosphere composed primarily of carbon dioxide\n (sulfuric acid was later confirmed in 1978).\n\n MARINER 3, launched on November 5, 1964, was lost when its protective\n shroud failed to eject as the craft was placed into interplanetary\n space. Unable to collect the Sun's energy for power from its solar\n panels, the probe soon died when its batteries ran out and is now in\n solar orbit. It was intended for a Mars flyby with MARINER 4.\n\n MARINER 4, the sister probe to MARINER 3, did reach Mars in 1965 and\n took the first close-up images of the Martian surface (22 in all) as it\n flew by the planet. The probe found a cratered world with an atmosphere\n much thinner than previously thought. Many scientists concluded from\n this preliminary scan that Mars was a \"dead\" world in both the\n geological and biological sense.\n\n MARINER 5 was sent to Venus in 1967. It reconfirmed the data on that\n planet collected five years earlier by MARINER 2, plus the information\n that Venus' atmospheric pressure at its surface is at least 90 times\n that of Earth's, or the equivalent of being 3,300 feet under the surface\n of an ocean.\n\n MARINER 6 and 7 were sent to Mars in 1969 and expanded upon the work\n done by MARINER 4 four years earlier. However, they failed to take away\n the concept of Mars as a \"dead\" planet, first made from the basic\n measurements of MARINER 4.\n\n MARINER 8 ended up in the Atlantic Ocean in 1971 when the rocket\n launcher autopilot failed.\n\n MARINER 9, the sister probe to MARINER 8, became the first craft to\n orbit Mars in 1971. It returned information on the Red Planet that no\n other probe had done before, revealing huge volcanoes on the Martian\n surface, as well as giant canyon systems, and evidence that water once\n flowed across the planet. The probe also took the first detailed closeup\n images of Mars' two small moons, Phobos and Deimos.\n\n MARINER 10 used Venus as a gravity assist to Mercury in 1974. The probe\n did return the first close-up images of the Venusian atmosphere in\n ultraviolet, revealing previously unseen details in the cloud cover,\n plus the fact that the entire cloud system circles the planet in four\n Earth days. MARINER 10 eventually made three flybys of Mercury from 1974\n to 1975 before running out of attitude control gas. The probe revealed\n Mercury as a heavily cratered world with a mass much greater than\n thought. This would seem to indicate that Mercury has an iron core which\n makes up 75 percent of the entire planet.\n\n\n PIONEER (MOON, SUN, VENUS, JUPITER, and SATURN FLYBYS AND ORBITERS)\n\n PIONEER 1 through 3 failed to meet their main objective - to photograph\n the Moon close-up - but they did reach far enough into space to provide\n new information on the area between Earth and the Moon, including new\n data on the Van Allen radiation belts circling Earth. All three craft\n had failures with their rocket launchers. PIONEER 1 was launched on\n October 11, 1958, PIONEER 2 on November 8, and PIONEER 3 on December 6.\n\n PIONEER 4 was a Moon probe which missed the Moon and became the first\n U.S. spacecraft to orbit the Sun in 1959. PIONEER 5 was originally\n designed to flyby Venus, but the mission was scaled down and it instead\n studied the interplanetary environment between Venus and Earth out to\n 36.2 million kilometers in 1960, a record until MARINER 2. PIONEER 6\n through 9 were placed into solar orbit from 1965 to 1968: PIONEER 6, 7,\n and 8 are still transmitting information at this time. PIONEER E (would\n have been number 10) suffered a launch failure in 1969.\n\n PIONEER 10 became the first spacecraft to flyby Jupiter in 1973. PIONEER\n 11 followed it in 1974, and then went on to become the first probe to\n study Saturn in 1979. Both vehicles should continue to function through\n 1995 and are heading off into interstellar space, the first craft ever\n to do so.\n\n PIONEER Venus 1 (1978) (also known as PIONEER Venus Orbiter, or PIONEER\n 12) burned up in the Venusian atmosphere on October 8, 1992. PVO made\n the first radar studies of the planet's surface via probe. PIONEER Venus\n 2 (also known as PIONEER 13) sent four small probes into the atmosphere\n in December of 1978. The main spacecraft bus burned up high in the\n atmosphere, while the four probes descended by parachute towards the\n surface. Though none were expected to survive to the surface, the Day\n probe did make it and transmitted for 67.5 minutes on the ground before\n its batteries failed.\n\n\n RANGER (LUNAR LANDER AND IMPACT MISSIONS)\n\n RANGER 1 and 2 were test probes for the RANGER lunar impact series. They\n were meant for high Earth orbit testing in 1961, but rocket problems\n left them in useless low orbits which quickly decayed.\n\n RANGER 3, launched on January 26, 1962, was intended to land an\n instrument capsule on the surface of the Moon, but problems during the\n launch caused the probe to miss the Moon and head into solar orbit.\n RANGER 3 did try to take some images of the Moon as it flew by, but the\n camera was unfortunately aimed at deep space during the attempt.\n\n RANGER 4, launched April 23, 1962, had the same purpose as RANGER 3, but\n suffered technical problems enroute and crashed on the lunar farside,\n the first U.S. probe to reach the Moon, albeit without returning data.\n\n RANGER 5, launched October 18, 1962 and similar to RANGER 3 and 4, lost\n all solar panel and battery power enroute and eventually missed the Moon\n and drifted off into solar orbit.\n\n RANGER 6 through 9 had more modified lunar missions: They were to send\n back live images of the lunar surface as they headed towards an impact\n with the Moon. RANGER 6 failed this objective in 1964 when its cameras\n did not operate. RANGER 7 through 9 performed well, becoming the first\n U.S. lunar probes to return thousands of lunar images through 1965.\n\n\n LUNAR ORBITER (LUNAR SURFACE PHOTOGRAPHY)\n\n LUNAR ORBITER 1 through 5 were designed to orbit the Moon and image\n various sites being studied as landing areas for the manned APOLLO\n missions of 1969-1972. The probes also contributed greatly to our\n understanding of lunar surface features, particularly the lunar farside.\n All five probes of the series, launched from 1966 to 1967, were\n essentially successful in their missions. They were the first U.S.\n probes to orbit the Moon. All LOs were eventually crashed into the lunar\n surface to avoid interference with the manned APOLLO missions.\n\n\n SURVEYOR (LUNAR SOFT LANDERS)\n\n The SURVEYOR series were designed primarily to see if an APOLLO lunar\n module could land on the surface of the Moon without sinking into the\n soil (before this time, it was feared by some that the Moon was covered\n in great layers of dust, which would not support a heavy landing\n vehicle). SURVEYOR was successful in proving that the lunar surface was\n strong enough to hold up a spacecraft from 1966 to 1968.\n\n Only SURVEYOR 2 and 4 were unsuccessful missions. The rest became the\n first U.S. probes to soft land on the Moon, taking thousands of images\n and scooping the soil for analysis. APOLLO 12 landed 600 feet from\n SURVEYOR 3 in 1969 and returned parts of the craft to Earth. SURVEYOR 7,\n the last of the series, was a purely scientific mission which explored\n the Tycho crater region in 1968.\n\n\n VIKING (MARS ORBITERS AND LANDERS)\n\n VIKING 1 was launched from Cape Canaveral, Florida on August 20, 1975 on\n a TITAN 3E-CENTAUR D1 rocket. The probe went into Martian orbit on June\n 19, 1976, and the lander set down on the western slopes of Chryse\n Planitia on July 20, 1976. It soon began its programmed search for\n Martian micro-organisms (there is still debate as to whether the probes\n found life there or not), and sent back incredible color panoramas of\n its surroundings. One thing scientists learned was that Mars' sky was\n pinkish in color, not dark blue as they originally thought (the sky is\n pink due to sunlight reflecting off the reddish dust particles in the\n thin atmosphere). The lander set down among a field of red sand and\n boulders stretching out as far as its cameras could image.\n\n The VIKING 1 orbiter kept functioning until August 7, 1980, when it ran\n out of attitude-control propellant. The lander was switched into a\n weather-reporting mode, where it had been hoped it would keep\n functioning through 1994; but after November 13, 1982, an errant command\n had been sent to the lander accidentally telling it to shut down until\n further orders. Communication was never regained again, despite the\n engineers' efforts through May of 1983.\n\n An interesting side note: VIKING 1's lander has been designated the\n Thomas A. Mutch Memorial Station in honor of the late leader of the\n lander imaging team. The National Air and Space Museum in Washington,\n D.C. is entrusted with the safekeeping of the Mutch Station Plaque until\n it can be attached to the lander by a manned expedition.\n\n VIKING 2 was launched on September 9, 1975, and arrived in Martian orbit\n on August 7, 1976. The lander touched down on September 3, 1976 in\n Utopia Planitia. It accomplished essentially the same tasks as its\n sister lander, with the exception that its seisometer worked, recording\n one marsquake. The orbiter had a series of attitude-control gas leaks in\n 1978, which prompted it being shut down that July. The lander was shut\n down on April 12, 1980.\n\n The orbits of both VIKING orbiters should decay around 2025.\n\n\n VOYAGER (OUTER PLANET FLYBYS)\n\n VOYAGER 1 was launched September 5, 1977, and flew past Jupiter on March\n 5, 1979 and by Saturn on November 13, 1980. VOYAGER 2 was launched\n August 20, 1977 (before VOYAGER 1), and flew by Jupiter on August 7,\n 1979, by Saturn on August 26, 1981, by Uranus on January 24, 1986, and\n by Neptune on August 8, 1989. VOYAGER 2 took advantage of a rare\n once-every-189-years alignment to slingshot its way from outer planet to\n outer planet. VOYAGER 1 could, in principle, have headed towards Pluto,\n but JPL opted for the sure thing of a Titan close up.\n\n Between the two probes, our knowledge of the 4 giant planets, their\n satellites, and their rings has become immense. VOYAGER 1&2 discovered\n that Jupiter has complicated atmospheric dynamics, lightning and\n aurorae. Three new satellites were discovered. Two of the major\n surprises were that Jupiter has rings and that Io has active sulfurous\n volcanoes, with major effects on the Jovian magnetosphere.\n\n When the two probes reached Saturn, they discovered over 1000 ringlets\n and 7 satellites, including the predicted shepherd satellites that keep\n the rings stable. The weather was tame compared with Jupiter: massive\n jet streams with minimal variance (a 33-year great white spot/band cycle\n is known). Titan's atmosphere was smoggy. Mimas' appearance was\n startling: one massive impact crater gave it the Death Star appearance.\n The big surprise here was the stranger aspects of the rings. Braids,\n kinks, and spokes were both unexpected and difficult to explain.\n\n VOYAGER 2, thanks to heroic engineering and programming efforts,\n continued the mission to Uranus and Neptune. Uranus itself was highly\n monochromatic in appearance. One oddity was that its magnetic axis was\n found to be highly skewed from the already completely skewed rotational\n axis, giving Uranus a peculiar magnetosphere. Icy channels were found on\n Ariel, and Miranda was a bizarre patchwork of different terrains. 10\n satellites and one more ring were discovered.\n\n In contrast to Uranus, Neptune was found to have rather active weather,\n including numerous cloud features. The ring arcs turned out to be bright\n patches on one ring. Two other rings, and 6 other satellites, were\n discovered. Neptune's magnetic axis was also skewed. Triton had a\n canteloupe appearance and geysers. (What's liquid at 38K?)\n\n The two VOYAGERs are expected to last for about two more decades. Their\n on-target journeying gives negative evidence about possible planets\n beyond Pluto. Their next major scientific discovery should be the\n location of the heliopause.\n\n\nSOVIET PLANETARY MISSIONS\n\n Since there have been so many Soviet probes to the Moon, Venus, and\n Mars, I will highlight only the primary missions:\n\n\n SOVIET LUNAR PROBES\n\n LUNA 1 - Lunar impact attempt in 1959, missed Moon and became first\n\t craft in solar orbit.\n LUNA 2 - First craft to impact on lunar surface in 1959.\n LUNA 3 - Took first images of lunar farside in 1959.\n ZOND 3 - Took first images of lunar farside in 1965 since LUNA 3. Was\n\t also a test for future Mars missions.\n LUNA 9 - First probe to soft land on the Moon in 1966, returned images\n\t from surface.\n LUNA 10 - First probe to orbit the Moon in 1966.\n LUNA 13 - Second successful Soviet lunar soft landing mission in 1966.\n ZOND 5 - First successful circumlunar craft. ZOND 6 through 8\n\t accomplished similar missions through 1970. The probes were\n\t unmanned tests of a manned orbiting SOYUZ-type lunar vehicle.\n LUNA 16 - First probe to land on Moon and return samples of lunar soil\n\t to Earth in 1970. LUNA 20 accomplished similar mission in\n\t 1972.\n LUNA 17 - Delivered the first unmanned lunar rover to the Moon's\n\t surface, LUNOKHOD 1, in 1970. A similar feat was accomplished\n\t with LUNA 21/LUNOKHOD 2 in 1973.\n LUNA 24 - Last Soviet lunar mission to date. Returned soil samples in\n\t 1976.\n\n\n SOVIET VENUS PROBES\n\n VENERA 1 - First acknowledged attempt at Venus mission. Transmissions\n\t lost enroute in 1961.\n VENERA 2 - Attempt to image Venus during flyby mission in tandem with\n\t VENERA 3. Probe ceased transmitting just before encounter in\n\t February of 1966. No images were returned.\n VENERA 3 - Attempt to place a lander capsule on Venusian surface.\n\t Transmissions ceased just before encounter and entire probe\n\t became the first craft to impact on another planet in 1966.\n VENERA 4 - First probe to successfully return data while descending\n\t through Venusian atmosphere. Crushed by air pressure before\n\t reaching surface in 1967. VENERA 5 and 6 mission profiles\n\t similar in 1969.\n VENERA 7 - First probe to return data from the surface of another planet\n\t in 1970. VENERA 8 accomplished a more detailed mission in\n\t 1972.\n VENERA 9 - Sent first image of Venusian surface in 1975. Was also the\n\t first probe to orbit Venus. VENERA 10 accomplished similar\n\t mission.\n VENERA 13 - Returned first color images of Venusian surface in 1982.\n\t\tVENERA 14 accomplished similar mission.\n VENERA 15 - Accomplished radar mapping with VENERA 16 of sections of\n\t\tplanet's surface in 1983 more detailed than PVO.\n VEGA 1 - Accomplished with VEGA 2 first balloon probes of Venusian\n\t atmosphere in 1985, including two landers. Flyby buses went on\n\t to become first spacecraft to study Comet Halley close-up in\n\t March of 1986.\n\n\n SOVIET MARS PROBES\n\n MARS 1 - First acknowledged Mars probe in 1962. Transmissions ceased\n\t enroute the following year.\n ZOND 2 - First possible attempt to place a lander capsule on Martian\n\t surface. Probe signals ceased enroute in 1965.\n MARS 2 - First Soviet Mars probe to land - albeit crash - on Martian\n\t surface. Orbiter section first Soviet probe to circle the Red\n\t Planet in 1971.\n MARS 3 - First successful soft landing on Martian surface, but lander\n\t signals ceased after 90 seconds in 1971.\n MARS 4 - Attempt at orbiting Mars in 1974, braking rockets failed to\n\t fire, probe went on into solar orbit.\n MARS 5 - First fully successful Soviet Mars mission, orbiting Mars in\n\t 1974. Returned images of Martian surface comparable to U.S.\n\t probe MARINER 9.\n MARS 6 - Landing attempt in 1974. Lander crashed into the surface.\n MARS 7 - Lander missed Mars completely in 1974, went into a solar orbit\n\t with its flyby bus.\n PHOBOS 1 - First attempt to land probes on surface of Mars' largest\n\t moon, Phobos. Probe failed enroute in 1988 due to\n\t human/computer error.\n PHOBOS 2 - Attempt to land probes on Martian moon Phobos. The probe did\n\t enter Mars orbit in early 1989, but signals ceased one week\n\t before scheduled Phobos landing.\n\n While there has been talk of Soviet Jupiter, Saturn, and even\n interstellar probes within the next thirty years, no major steps have\n yet been taken with these projects. More intensive studies of the Moon,\n Mars, Venus, and various comets have been planned for the 1990s, and a\n Mercury mission to orbit and land probes on the tiny world has been\n planned for 2003. How the many changes in the former Soviet Union (now\n the Commonwealth of Independent States) will affect the future of their\n space program remains to be seen.\n\n\nJAPANESE PLANETARY MISSIONS\n\n SAKIGAKE (MS-T5) was launched from the Kagoshima Space Center by ISAS on\n January 8 1985, and approached Halley's Comet within about 7 million km\n on March 11, 1986. The spacecraft is carrying three instru- ments to\n measure interplanetary magnetic field/plasma waves/solar wind, all of\n which work normally now, so ISAS made an Earth swingby by Sakigake on\n January 8, 1992 into an orbit similar to the earth's. The closest\n approach was at 23h08m47s (JST=UTC+9h) on January 8, 1992. The\n geocentric distance was 88,997 km. This is the first planet-swingby for\n a Japanese spacecraft.\n\n During the approach, Sakigake observed the geotail. Some geotail\n passages will be scheduled in some years hence. The second Earth-swingby\n will be on June 14, 1993 (at 40 Re (Earth's radius)), and the third\n October 28, 1994 (at 86 Re).\n\n\n HITEN, a small lunar probe, was launched into Earth orbit on January 24,\n 1990. The spacecraft was then known as MUSES-A, but was renamed to Hiten\n once in orbit. The 430 lb probe looped out from Earth and made its first\n lunary flyby on March 19, where it dropped off its 26 lb midget\n satellite, HAGOROMO. Japan at this point became the third nation to\n orbit a satellite around the Moon, joining the Unites States and USSR.\n\n The smaller spacecraft, Hagoromo, remained in orbit around the Moon. An\n apparently broken transistor radio caused the Japanese space scientists\n to lose track of it. Hagoromo's rocket motor fired on schedule on March\n 19, but the spacecraft's tracking transmitter failed immediately. The\n rocket firing of Hagoromo was optically confirmed using the Schmidt\n camera (105-cm, F3.1) at the Kiso Observatory in Japan.\n\n Hiten made multiple lunar flybys at approximately monthly intervals and\n performed aerobraking experiments using the Earth's atmosphere. Hiten\n made a close approach to the moon at 22:33 JST (UTC+9h) on February 15,\n 1992 at the height of 423 km from the moon's surface (35.3N, 9.7E) and\n fired its propulsion system for about ten minutes to put the craft into\n lunar orbit. The following is the orbital calculation results after the\n approach:\n\n\tApoapsis Altitude: about 49,400 km\n\tPeriapsis Altitude: about 9,600 km\n\tInclination\t: 34.7 deg (to ecliptic plane)\n\tPeriod\t\t: 4.7 days\n\n\nPLANETARY MISSION REFERENCES\n\n I also recommend reading the following works, categorized in three\n groups: General overviews, specific books on particular space missions,\n and periodical sources on space probes. This list is by no means\n complete; it is primarily designed to give you places to start your\n research through generally available works on the subject. If anyone can\n add pertinent works to the list, it would be greatly appreciated.\n\n Though naturally I recommend all the books listed below, I think it\n would be best if you started out with the general overview books, in\n order to give you a clear idea of the history of space exploration in\n this area. I also recommend that you pick up some good, up-to-date\n general works on astronomy and the Sol system, to give you some extra\n background. Most of these books and periodicals can be found in any good\n public and university library. Some of the more recently published works\n can also be purchased in and/or ordered through any good mass- market\n bookstore.\n\n General Overviews (in alphabetical order by author):\n\n J. Kelly Beatty et al, THE NEW SOLAR SYSTEM, 1990.\n\n Merton E. Davies and Bruce C. Murray, THE VIEW FROM SPACE:\n PHOTOGRAPHIC EXPLORATION OF THE PLANETS, 1971\n\n Kenneth Gatland, THE ILLUSTRATED ENCYCLOPEDIA OF SPACE\n TECHNOLOGY, 1990\n\n Kenneth Gatland, ROBOT EXPLORERS, 1972\n\n R. Greeley, PLANETARY LANDSCAPES, 1987\n\n Douglas Hart, THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF SOVIET SPACECRAFT, 1987\n\n Nicholas L. Johnson, HANDBOOK OF SOVIET LUNAR AND PLANETARY\n EXPLORATION, 1979\n\n Clayton R. Koppes, JPL AND THE AMERICAN SPACE PROGRAM: A\n HISTORY OF THE JET PROPULSION LABORATORY, 1982\n\n Richard S. Lewis, THE ILLUSTRATED ENCYCLOPEDIA OF THE\n UNIVERSE, 1983\n\n Mark Littman, PLANETS BEYOND: DISCOVERING THE OUTER SOLAR\n SYSTEM, 1988\n\n Eugene F. Mallove and Gregory L. Matloff, THE STARFLIGHT\n HANDBOOK: A PIONEER'S GUIDE TO INTERSTELLAR TRAVEL, 1989\n\n Frank Miles and Nicholas Booth, RACE TO MARS: THE MARS\n FLIGHT ATLAS, 1988\n\n Bruce Murray, JOURNEY INTO SPACE, 1989\n\n Oran W. Nicks, FAR TRAVELERS, 1985 (NASA SP-480)\n\n James E. Oberg, UNCOVERING SOVIET DISASTERS: EXPLORING THE\n LIMITS OF GLASNOST, 1988\n\n Carl Sagan, COMET, 1986\n\n Carl Sagan, THE COSMIC CONNECTION, 1973\n\n Carl Sagan, PLANETS, 1969 (LIFE Science Library)\n\n Arthur Smith, PLANETARY EXPLORATION: THIRTY YEARS OF UNMANNED\n SPACE PROBES, 1988\n\n Andrew Wilson, (JANE'S) SOLAR SYSTEM LOG, 1987\n\n Specific Mission References:\n\n Charles A. Cross and Patrick Moore, THE ATLAS OF MERCURY, 1977\n (The MARINER 10 mission to Venus and Mercury, 1973-1975)\n\n Joel Davis, FLYBY: THE INTERPLANETARY ODYSSEY OF VOYAGER 2, 1987\n\n Irl Newlan, FIRST TO VENUS: THE STORY OF MARINER 2, 1963\n\n Margaret Poynter and Arthur L. Lane, VOYAGER: THE STORY OF A\n SPACE MISSION, 1984\n\n Carl Sagan, MURMURS OF EARTH, 1978 (Deals with the Earth\n information records placed on VOYAGER 1 and 2 in case the\n probes are found by intelligences in interstellar space,\n as well as the probes and planetary mission objectives\n themselves.)\n\n Other works and periodicals:\n\n NASA has published very detailed and technical books on every space\n probe mission it has launched. Good university libraries will carry\n these books, and they are easily found simply by knowing which mission\n you wish to read about. I recommend these works after you first study\n some of the books listed above.\n\n Some periodicals I recommend for reading on space probes are NATIONAL\n GEOGRAPHIC, which has written articles on the PIONEER probes to Earth's\n Moon Luna and the Jovian planets Jupiter and Saturn, the RANGER,\n SURVEYOR, LUNAR ORBITER, and APOLLO missions to Luna, the MARINER\n missions to Mercury, Venus, and Mars, the VIKING probes to Mars, and the\n VOYAGER missions to Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune.\n\n More details on American, Soviet, European, and Japanese probe missions\n can be found in SKY AND TELESCOPE, ASTRONOMY, SCIENCE, NATURE, and\n SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN magazines. TIME, NEWSWEEK, and various major\n newspapers can supply not only general information on certain missions,\n but also show you what else was going on with Earth at the time events\n were unfolding, if that is of interest to you. Space missions are\n affected by numerous political, economic, and climatic factors, as you\n probably know.\n\n Depending on just how far your interest in space probes will go, you\n might also wish to join The Planetary Society, one of the largest space\n groups in the world dedicated to planetary exploration. Their\n periodical, THE PLANETARY REPORT, details the latest space probe\n missions. Write to The Planetary Society, 65 North Catalina Avenue,\n Pasadena, California 91106 USA.\n\n Good luck with your studies in this area of space exploration. I\n personally find planetary missions to be one of the more exciting areas\n in this field, and the benefits human society has and will receive from\n it are incredible, with many yet to be realized.\n\n Larry Klaes klaes@verga.enet.dec.com", "Joe,\n\n\tyour description sounds like one of the gravity probe spacecraft\nideas.", "\nYou'd need to launch HLVs to send up large amounts of stuff *if* you assume\nno new launcher development. If you assume new launcher development, with\nlower costs as a specific objective, then you probably don't want to\nbuild something HLV-sized anyway.", "\nI don't think a reboost exercise is analogous to a shuttle landing/launch\nin terms of stresses/misalignments/etc. I would think of the reboost as\na gentile push, where a landing, then launch as two JOLTS which would\nput more mechanical stress on the instruments. Additionally, there might\nbe a concern about landing loads to the shuttle in the event of a laden\nlanding. Finally, probably some thought went into possible contamination \nproblems if the instruments came back to earth.\n\nOf course, the cost of two shuttle launches _is_ a good reason to avoid\nsomething that might be done in one shuttle launch. Here's hoping\nCepi's gang gets the job done right the first time.", "\n\nWow, the WWII channel did something not-WWII?\n\n\nThe graphics capabilities of the computers were very faked for movie \naudiences who have not ability or patience with numbers. The book was more \nrealistic in that respect. In all respects, actually. The robotics are \nstill out of range, but not impossible.\n\n\nSF (and I\"ve always wondered how Crichton escapes this classification) is \nusually ahead of science in both prediction and precaution. NASA's \ndecontaimination processes were supposedly taken to prevent SF story \ndisasters. I mean, NASA scientists were often SF readers (and \nsometimes writers) and felt pre-warned by their reading.\n\n\nI think the film still holds up among the best of SF films, but that isn't \nsaying a whole lot.\n", "\n\nI know someone had long talks about Solar Sails early this year and late last\nyear..Also about Solar Sailing. Not sure who captured it if possible..\n\nI think it was one of the regulars who had most or all the data?\n\nI think I started the latest round or the late last year round.. But the topic\nhas been around here, off and on for a year or two..", "There are a number of Philosophical questions that I would like to ask:\n\n1) If we encounter a life form during our space exploration, how do we\ndetermine if we should capture it, imprison it, and then discect it?\n\n2) If we encounter a civilization that is suffering economicly, will\nwe expend resources from earth to help them?\n\n3) With all of the deseases we currently have that are deadly and undetectable,\nwhat will be done to ensure that more new deadly deseases aren't brought\nback, or that our deseases don't destroy life elsewhere?\n\n\n\n-- \nHave a day,", "\n\n\n\n\nCould someone please post Roger Grywalski's response? Or point me to where\nI could find it?\n\nThanks a lot,\n\n\nS. Raj Chaudhury\t\t\t|\nDept. of Physics \t\t\t| raj@phys.ksu.edu\nKansas State University\t\t\t|\nManhattan, KS 66506\t\t\t|", "I read it refered to as the \"parabolic cross-section\" rule;\nthe idea was that if you plot the area of the fuselage cross-\nsection as a function of the point fore-and-aft along the \nfuselage, a plot that is a **paraboloid** minimizes somethin' \nor 'nother (to be technical about it).\n\n", "Nick Haines sez;\n\nLevel 5? Out of how many? What are the different levels? I've never\nheard of this rating system. Anyone care to clue me in?\n\n-Tommy Mac\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTom McWilliams 517-355-2178 wk \\\\ As the radius of vision increases,\n18084tm@ibm.cl.msu.edu 336-9591 hm \\\\ the circumference of mystery grows.", "\nReboost may not be a problem, if they have enough fuel. If they don't do a \nreboost this time, they will definitely have to do one on the next servicing\nmission. But try to land a shuttle with that big huge telescope in the \nback and you could have problems. The shuttle just isn't designed to land \nwith that much weight in the payload.\n\n\nof course that is a concern too, and the loss of science during the time\nthat it is on the ground. plus a fear that if it comes down, some\nbig-wig might not allow it to go back up. but the main concern, I\nbelieve is the danger of the landing. Just to add another bad vibe,\nthey also increase the risk of damaging an instrument. Finally, \nthis is a chance for NASA astronanuts to prove they could build and\nservice a space station. Hubble was designed for in flight servicing.\n\nbringing the telescope down, to my understanding, was considered\neven very recently, but all these factors contribute to the \ndecision to do it the way it was planned in the beginning.\n\n\nROB\n-- \n===========================================================================\n===========================================================================\n\nDisclaimer-type-thingie>>>>> These opinions are mine! Unless of course \n\tthey fall under the standard intellectual property guidelines. \n\tBut with my intellect, I doubt it. Besides, if it was useful\n\tintellectual property, do you think I would type it in here?", "Speech by Pete Worden\n \n Delivered Before the U.S. Space Foundation Conference\n \n Colorado Springs, Colorado\n \n April 15, 1993\n\n\n What a delightful opportunity to cause some trouble. For\nproviding me this forum I would sincerely like to thank the U.S.\nSpace Foundation. My topic today is the Single Stage Rocket\nTechnology rocket or SSRT. By I intend to speak of more. How to\nlower the cost and make rapid progress. SSRT is to my mind --\nand I hope to convince you -- the erupting a new rallying cry for\nour generation in space -- Faster, Cheaper, and Better.\n\n Faster, Cheaper, Better and SSRT represent the passing of a\ntorch from one technical generation to another. It is a new\nthing to be sure -- but it is also a relearning of old things\nfrom past masters.\n\n When we rolled out the SSRT baby two weeks ago, so called\nexperts told us it violates the laws of physics -- it made no\nsense. For example, Dr. Eberhart Rachtin - former president of\nthe Aerospace Corp., said of SSRT in the L.A. Times that it,\n\"defies the best principles of launching payloads into space.\" \nWell Dr. Rachtin -- you've made us mad! What are these\nprinciples that SSRT defies?\n\n Well I'll tell you. It violates the principle that you need\na giant program office to build space hardware. It violates the\n\"fact\" that it takes 20 years to build something new. And it\nviolates the truism that you cant do anything significant for\nless than many billions of dollars.\n\n It took some of the last generation's experts to teach us\nsome new/old lessons. Werhner Von Braun's first rocket was not a\nSaturn V. General Schriever's ICBM's didn't take ten years to\ndemonstrate. And the X-1 airplane didn't cost $1 billion.\n\n It took one of the great engineers of the 1950's to remind\nus of these truths -- Max Hunter. Max, to remind you, was a\nsenior engineer in the Thor IRBM program, and old faster, better,\ncheaper success story. Max has been persistent in a vision of a\nsingle stage reusable space launch system since the 1960's. \nBecause he knew it had to be done in affordable steps - Build a\nlittle, Test a little.\n\n Next he persuaded us to do a technology demonstration. We\ndidn't solicit a bunch of requirements -- they'd just change\nevery few years anyway. [ not included in the speech -- The\nALS/NLS has such ephemeral requirements that it would better\nknown as \"Shape Shifter\" than \"Space Lifter.\" We didn't spend a\nlot money -- this X-Rocket only cost $60 million. When's the\nlast time we even built a new airplane for that? And it didn't\ntake a lot of time to build -- McDonnell Douglas completed it in\n18 months. Finally, the government program office consisted of\none very over-worked Air Force Major -- motivated in part by the\nthreat that he'd get to ride on it in a strapped-on lawn chair if\nit ran over cost or schedule.\n\n As I described what SSRT is -- and isn't keep in mind its\nonly a first step. There are several more steps -- and steps\nthat can easily fail -- before the U.S. can field an SSTO. But\neach step should follow the same principles -- a small management\nteam -- a few years technology demonstration -- and a modest\nbudget.\n\n Let me show a few details on SSRT and how it might evolve:\n(See charts)\n\n I'm embarrassed when my generation is compared with the last\ngeneration -- the giants of the last great space era, the 1950's\nand 1960's. They went to the moon - we built a telescope that\ncan't see straight. They soft-landed on Mars - the least we\ncould do is soft-land on Earth!\n\n But we do have an answer. We can follow their build a\nlittle, test a little philosophy to produce a truly affordable\nand routine access to space. I know there are nay sayers among\nyou -- those who say SSRT is a stunt. It needs more thermal\nprotection, the engines are wrong, it would be better to land\nhorizontally, etc, etc.\n\n I say to you -- we'll see you at White Sands in June. You\nbring your view-graphs, and I'll bring my rocketship. If we do\nwhat we say we can do, then you let us do the next step. [ not\nincluded in the speech: If we fail -- you still have your\nprogram offices, staff summary sheets, requirement analyses, and\ndecade long programs.]", "Hello everyone,\n\n\tI was hoping someone could help me out. I'm writing a program\n\tfor my astronautics class for assent of the shuttle into a low\n\torbit. There are two things I'd like to know, First, how much \n\ttime elapses between launch and the pitch over. Second, what is\n\tthe cross-sectional area of the shuttle, srb's, and ext. tank.\n\n\tThanks for any information, post or e-mail.", "Suppose the Soviets had managed to get their moon rocket working\nand had made it first. They could have beaten us if either:\n\n* Their rocket hadn't blown up on the pad thus setting them back,\n\nand/or\n\n* A Saturn V went boom.\n\nIf they had beaten us, I speculate that the US would have gone\nhead and done some landings, but we also would have been more\ndetermined to set up a base (both in Earth Orbit and on the\nMoon). Whether or not we would be on Mars by now would depend\nupon whether the Soviets tried to go. Setting up a lunar base\nwould have stretched the budgets of both nations and I think\nthat the military value of a lunar base would outweigh the value\nof going to Mars (at least in the short run). Thus we would\nhave concentrated on the moon.\n", "\n\nHas someone actually verified that mass is the predominant constraint on this\nmission? You seem to be assuming it without giving supporting evidence. \n\n\n\n\nPat, this would be slower, more expensive and worse. \n\nSlower: The shuttle mission is scheduled to go up in December. That's less\nthan eight months away. There is no way you could build new hardware, retrain\nand reschedule the EVA's in that time.\n\nMore Expensive: Your proposal still requires the shuttle to do everything it\nwas going to do execpt fire the OMS. In addition, you've added significant\nextra cost for a new piece of complex hardware.\n\n\nAccording to a GAO report on the OMV I have before me, there are\nonly two currently planned missions that could use such a vehicle -- HST and\nAXAF. Since AXAF has since been scaled back and HST can rely on the shuttle,\nthere doesn't seem to be any need for your vehicle.\n", "\nLets hear it for Dan Goldin...now if he can only convince the rest of\nour federal government that the space program is a worth while\ninvestment!\n\nI hope that I will live to see the day we walk on Mars, but\nwe need to address the technical hurdles first! If there's sufficient\ninterest, maybe we should consider starting a sci.space group \ndevoted to the technical analysis of long-duration human spaceflight.\nMost of you regulars know that I'm interested in starting this analysis\nas soon as possible.", "I am taking a course entitled \"Exploring Science Using Internet\".\nFor our final project, we are to find a compendium of Internet resources \ndealing with a science-related topic. I chose Astronomy. Anyway, I was \nwondering if anyone out there knew of any interesting resources on Internet\nthat provide information on Astronomy, space, NASA, or anything like that.\n\nTHANKS!", ": While I'm sure Sagan considers it sacrilegious, that wouldn't be\n: because of his doubtfull credibility as an astronomer. Modern, \n: ground-based, visible light astronomy (what these proposed\n: orbiting billboards would upset) is already a dying field: The\n: opacity and distortions caused by the atmosphere itself have\n: driven most of the field to use radio, far infrared or space-based\n: telescopes.\n\nHardly. The Keck telescope in Hawaii has taken its first pictures; they're\nnearly as good as Hubble for a tiny fraction of the cost.\n\n: In any case, a bright point of light passing through\n: the field doesn't ruin observations. If that were the case, the\n: thousands of existing satellites would have already done so (satelliets\n: might not seem so bright to the eyes, but as far as astronomy is concerned,\n: they are extremely bright.)\n\nI believe that this orbiting space junk will be FAR brighter still;\nmore like the full moon. The moon upsets deep-sky observation all\nover the sky (and not just looking at it) because of scattered light.\n\nThis is a known problem, but of course two weeks out of every four are\nOK. What happens when this billboard circles every 90 minutes? What\nwould be a good time then?\n\n: Frank Crary\n: CU Boulder\n", "Sounds liek what the FED has to do is sign a 50 or more year lease to use\ncertain parts of a space station that is built and designed and such by a\ncommerical company or consortium of companies (such as like Alyeska) for a\nsmall amount of rent in return for certain incentives and such.. Such as tax\nand other right off and also a monopoly on certain products.. The commerical\nbuilders would have certain perks given to them to make there end easier (taxes\n, contracts, regulatory concesions and such..)\n\nIs it workable, just might work..\n\nAfter all, if China can lease out Hong Kong and the people of Hong Kong can\nmake money, this could work..", "\nGreat! I'll visit the National Air and Space Museum at the end of the\nmonth with my wife, who was also working at General Atomic at the time.\nOnce again netnews has enriched my life.", "\nI don't care who told you this it is not generally true. I see EVERY single\nline item on a contract and I have to sign it. There is no such thing as\nwrap at this university. I also asked around here. Ther is no wrap at \nMarquette, University of Wisconsin Madison, Utah State, Weber State or\nEmbry Riddle U. I am not saying that it doees not happen but in every instance\nthat I have been able to track down it does not. Also the president of our\nUniversity who was Provost at University of West Virgina said that it did\nnot happen there either and that this figure must be included in the overhead\nto be a legitimate charge.\n\n\nI did they never heard of it but suggest that, like our president did, that\nany percentage number like this is included in the overhead.\n\n\nNo Allen you did not. You merely repeated allegations made by an Employee\nof the Overhead capital of NASA. Nothing that Reston does could not be dont\nbetter or cheaper at the Other NASA centers where the work is going on.\nKinda funny isn't it that someone who talks about a problem like this is\nat a place where everything is overhead.\n\n\nWhy did the Space News artice point out that it was the congressionally\ndemanded change that caused the problems? Methinks that you are being \nselective with the facts again.\n\n\nIf it takes four flights a year to resupply the station and you have a cost\nof 500 million a flight then you pay 2 billion a year. You stated that your\n\"friend\" at Reston said that with the current station they could resupply it\nfor a billion a year \"if the wrap were gone\". This merely points out a \nblatent contridiction in your numbers that understandably you fail to see.\n\nDennis, University of Alabama in Huntsville.", "I saw in the newspaper last night that Dr. Mae Jemison, the first\nblack woman in space (she's a physician and chemical engineer who flew\non Endeavour last year) will appear as a transporter operator on the\n\"Star Trek: The Next Generation\" episode that airs the week of May 31.\nIt's hardly space science, I know, but it's interesting.", "\n\n\nPunchline #3: it would be a good idea just to leave them there.\n\n-Tommy Mac\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTom McWilliams 517-355-2178 wk \\\\ As the radius of vision increases,\n18084tm@ibm.cl.msu.edu 336-9591 hm \\\\ the circumference of mystery grows.", "\n\nIs HST really _that_ much heavier than a Spacelab ???\n\nbd", "I know its semantics, but the \"no-op\" _doesn't_ do anything. The\nCommand Loss Timer is simply looking for a command, any command. A\n\"no-op\" is simply a spacecraft command that drops bits into the big\nbit bucket in the sky. \"No-op\" also get used as timekeepers to provide\nmillisecond delays between command sequences (used on the thruster preps\non GRO, er, Compton) and to verify command links at the beginning of\nTDRS events. All in all, a rather useful command. And, an intelligent\nFDC test on Galileo (the Command Loss Timer).", "\n\n\n\n\nWhen I was at the Texas Star Party a few years ago, the sky was so dark\nthat Venus did, indeed, cause light pollution until it set.\n\nEven if the billboard were dark it could cause a problem. Imagine observing an\nobject and halfway through your run, your object was occulted!\n\nI would guess that most of the people stating positive opinions are not \nfanatically serious observers.\n\nIt is so typical that the rights of the minority are extinguished by the\nwants of the majority, no matter how ridiculous those wants might be.\n \nGeorge Krumins\n-- \n", "We are not at the end of the Space Age, but only at the end of Its\nbeginning.\n\nThat space exploration is no longer a driver for technical innovation,\nor a focus of American cultural attention is certainly debatable; however,\ntechnical developments in other quarters will always be examined for\npossible applications in the space area and we can look forward to\nmany innovations that might enhance the capabilities and lower the\ncost of future space operations. \n\nThe Dream is Alive and Well.", "\n\n\nThe Command Loss Timer is a timer that does just what its name says;\nit indicates to the probe that it has lost its data link for receiving\ncommands. Upon expiration of the Command Loss Timer, I believe the\nprobe starts a 'search for Earth' sequence (involving antenna pointing\nand attitude changes which consume fuel) to try to reestablish\ncommunications. No-ops are sent periodically through those periods\nwhen there are no real commands to be sent, just so the probe knows\nthat we haven't forgotten about it.\n\nHope that's clear enough to be comprehensible. \n\n-- \n\"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live\n in the real world.\" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden", "a\n\nWhat about positional uncertainties in S-L 1993e? I assume we know where\nand what Galileo is doing within a few meters. But without the\nHGA, don't we have to have some pretty good ideas, of where to look\nbefore imaging? If the HGA was working, they could slew around\nin near real time (Less speed of light delay). But when they were\nimaging toutatis???? didn't someone have to get lucky on a guess to\nfind the first images? \n\nAlso, I imagine S-L 1993e will be mostly a visual image. so how will\nthat affect the other imaging missions. with the LGA, there is a real\ntight allocation of bandwidth. It may be premature to hope for answers,\nbut I thought i'd throw it on the floor.", "\n\n\nI should probably re-post this with another title, so that\nthe guys on the other thread would see that this is a practical\nuse of \"temporary orbits...\"\n\nAnother possible temporary orbit:\n", "\n\nGeorge.\n\n\tIt's called a democracy. The majority rules. sorry.\nIf ytou don't like it, I suggest you modify the constitution to include\na constitutional right to Dark Skies. The theory of government\nhere is that the majority rules, except in the nature of fundamental\ncivil rights. If you really are annoyed, get some legislation\nto create a dark sky zone, where in all light emissions are protected\nin the zone. Kind of like the national radio quiet zone. Did you\nknow about that? near teh Radio telescope observatory in West virginia,\nthey have a 90?????? mile EMCON zone. Theoretically they can prevent\nyou from running light AC motors, like air conditioners and Vacuums.\nIn practice, they use it mostly to control large radio users.", "INteresting question about Galileo.\n\nGalileo's HGA is stuck. \n\nThe HGA was left closed, because galileo had a venus flyby.\n\nIf the HGA were pointed att he sun, near venus, it would\ncook the foci elements.\n\nquestion: WHy couldn't Galileo's course manuevers have been\ndesigned such that the HGA did not ever do a sun point.?\n\nAfter all, it would normally be aimed at earth anyway?\n\nor would it be that an emergency situation i.e. spacecraft safing\nand seek might have caused an HGA sun point?", "\n\nOh gee, a billion dollars! That'd be just about enough to cover the cost of the\nfeasability study! Happy, Happy, JOY! JOY!", "I've been following discussions about the Delta Clipper program, and I\nhave one small question. As I understand it, the DC-X derived orbital\nvehicle (DC-Y & 1) is to reenter the atmosphere sort of sideways, not\ncompletely nose-first. So why is the DC-Y look symmetric in every drawing\nI've seen? I would think that an asymmetric design, sort of like \nwingless Orbiter, may work better, since less shielding is required on the\ntop side. Can anybody explain? \n\n- Ken Kobayashi\nkkobayas@husc.harvard.edu\n\n-- ", "You should have been following the discussion of GRBs\ngoing on in sci.astro. It's been discussed in some detail,\nwith references even.\n", "Are you guys talking about the Soviet \"shuttle\"? It's not \"Soyuz\",\nit's called \"Buran\" which means \"snow storm.\"\n\n(At least that's what they call it on Russian TV).\n\n", "\n\n\n1. I don't think they are classified.\n\n2. I could independently invent about half a dozen right off\nthe top of my head. If I had studied Advanced E & M a little better,\nI could probably come up with a _very_ good system.\n\n...\n\n", "\nWishful thinking mostly. It's more likely that the Moon will never\nbe the site of major commercial activity. As far as we know it has no\nmaterials we can't get cheaper right here on Earth or from asteroids\nand comets, aside from the semi-mythic He3 that *might* be useful in low\ngrade fusion reactors. Exploring it would satisfy a curiosity itch, \nand it's position in the gravity well of Earth coupled with it's heat \nsink capacity could offer some military utility for \"high ground\" military\nweapons systems, but it holds very minute commercial value. If space \ntravel becomes cheap enough, it might become a tourist attraction as \nMt. Everest and the Antarctic have become, but that's a very minor \nactivity in the global scope of things.\n\nLuna has an inconvienent gravity field. It's likely too low to prevent\ncalcium loss, muscle atrophy, and long term genetic drift. Yet it's\ntoo high to do micro-G manufacturing. Space based colonies and factories\nthat can be spun to any convienent value of G look much better. Luna\nhas a modest vacuum and raw solar exposure two weeks a month, but orbital\nsites can have better vacuums and continous solar exposure. Luna offers\na source of light element rocks that can serve as raw materials, heatsink,\nand shielding. The asteroids and comets offer sources of both light and\nheavy elements, and volatile compounds, and many are in less steep gravity\nwells so that less delta-v is required to reach them.\n\nWe don't use 2/3rds of the Earth now, the seafloors, and we virtually\nignore Antarctica, a whole continent. That's because we don't have to\ndeal with those conditions in order to make a buck. Luna is a much more\nexpensive place to visit, or to live and work. I think we'll use the\neasier places first. That pushes Lunar development back at least a few\ncenturies, if not much longer.\n\nLuna's main short term value would be as a place for a farside radio\nastronomy observatory, shielded from the noisy Earth. Or as the site\nof a laser, particle beam, or linear accelerator weapons system for\ndefending Earth, or bombarding it as the case may be. The first is\nunlikely because of the high cost for such a basic science instrument.\nThe second is just as unlikely because conventional nukes are good\nenough, and the military would really rather see the Earth safe for\nconventional warfare again. There's little glory in watching from a\nbunker as machines fight each other over continental ranges. Little\nultimate profit either.\n\nGary", "\nThere was a Science fiction movie sometime ago (I do not remember its \nname) about a planet in the same orbit of Earth but hidden behind the \nSun so it could never be visible from Earth. Turns out that that planet \nwas the exact mirror image of Earth and all its inhabitants looked like \nthe Earthings with the difference that their organs was in the opposite \nside like the heart was in the right side instead in the left and they \nwould shake hands with the left hand and so on...\n\n C.O.EGALON@LARC.NASA.GOV\n\nC.O.Egalon@larc.nasa.gov", "\nHenry, I made the assumption that he who gets there firstest with the mostest\nwins. \n\nOhhh, you want to put in FINE PRINT which says \"Thou shall do wonderous R&D\nrather than use off-the-shelf hardware\"? Sorry, didn't see that in my copy.\nMost of the Pournellesque proposals run along the lines of reward for . \n\nYou go ahead and do your development, I'll buy off the shelf at higher cost (or\neven Russian; but I also assume that there'd be some \"Buy US\" provos in there)\nand be camped out in the Moon while you are launching and assembling little\nitty-bitty payloads in LEO with your laser or gas gun. And working out the\nbugs of assembly & integration in LEO. \n\nOh, hey, could I get a couple of CanadARMs tuned for the lunar environment? I\nwanna do some teleoperated prospecting while I'm up there...\n\n\n", "Sterrenkundig symposium 'Compacte Objecten'\n op 26 april 1993\n\n\nIn het jaar 1643, zeven jaar na de oprichting van de\nUniversiteit van Utrecht, benoemde de universiteit haar\neerste sterrenkundige waarnemer. Hiermee ontstond de tweede\nuniversiteitssterrenwacht ter wereld. Aert Jansz, de eerste\nwaarnemer, en zijn opvolgers voerden de Utrechtse sterrenkunde\nin de daaropvolgende jaren, decennia en eeuwen naar de\nvoorhoede van het astronomisch onderzoek. Dit jaar is het 350\njaar geleden dat deze historische benoeming plaatsvond.\n\nDe huidige generatie Utrechtse sterrenkundigen en studenten\nsterrenkunde, verenigd in het Sterrekundig Instituut Utrecht,\nvieren de benoeming van hun 'oervader' middels een breed scala\naan feestelijke activiteiten. Zo is er voor scholieren een\nplanetenproject, programmeert de Studium Generale een aantal\nvoordrachten met een sterrenkundig thema en wordt op de Dies\nNatalis aan een astronoom een eredoctoraat uitgereikt. Er\nstaat echter meer op stapel.\n\nStudenten natuur- en sterrenkunde kunnen op 26 april aan een\nsterrenkundesymposium deelnemen. De onderwerpen van het\nsymposium zijn opgebouwd rond een van de zwaartepunten van het\nhuidige Utrechtse onderzoek: het onderzoek aan de zogeheten\n'compacte objecten', de eindstadia in de evolutie van sterren.\nBij de samenstelling van het programma is getracht de\ndeelnemer een zo aktueel en breed mogelijk beeld te geven van\nde stand van zaken in het onderzoek aan deze eindstadia. In de\neerste, inleidende lezing zal dagvoorzitter prof. Lamers een\nbeknopt overzicht geven van de evolutie van zware sterren,\nwaarna de zeven overige sprekers in lezingen van telkens een\nhalf uur nader op de specifieke evolutionaire eindprodukten\nzullen ingaan. Na afloop van elke lezing is er gelegenheid tot\nhet stellen van vragen. Het dagprogramma staat afgedrukt op\neen apart vel.\nHet niveau van de lezingen is afgestemd op tweedejaars\nstudenten natuur- en sterrenkunde. OOK ANDERE BELANGSTELLENDEN\nZIJN VAN HARTE WELKOM!\n\nTijdens de lezing van prof. Kuijpers zullen, als alles goed\ngaat, de veertien radioteleskopen van de Radiosterrenwacht\nWesterbork worden ingezet om via een directe verbinding tussen\nhet heelal, Westerbork en Utrecht het zwakke radiosignaal van\neen snel roterende kosmische vuurtoren, een zogeheten pulsar,\nin de symposiumzaal door te geven en te audiovisualiseren.\nProf. Kuijpers zal de binnenkomende signalen (elkaar snel\nopvolgende scherp gepiekte pulsen radiostraling) bespreken en\ntrachten te verklaren.\nHet slagen van dit unieke experiment staat en valt met de\ntechnische haalbaarheid ervan. De op te vangen signalen zijn\nnamelijk zo zwak, dat pas na een waarnemingsperiode van 10\nmiljoen jaar genoeg energie is opgevangen om een lamp van 30\nWatt een seconde te laten branden! Tijdens het symposium zal\ner niet zo lang gewacht hoeven te worden: de hedendaagse\ntechnologie stelt ons in staat live het heelal te beluisteren.\n\nDeelname aan het symposium kost f 4,- (exclusief lunch) en\nf 16,- (inclusief lunch). Inschrijving geschiedt door het\nverschuldigde bedrag over te maken op ABN-AMRO rekening\n44.46.97.713 t.n.v. stichting 350 JUS. Het gironummer van de\nABN-AMRO bank Utrecht is 2900. Bij de inschrijving dient te\nworden aangegeven of men lid is van de NNV. Na inschrijving\nwordt de symposiummap toegestuurd. Bij inschrijving na\n31 maart vervalt de mogelijkheid een lunch te reserveren.\n\nHet symposium vindt plaats in Transitorium I,\nUniversiteit Utrecht.\n\nVoor meer informatie over het symposium kan men terecht bij\nHenrik Spoon, p/a S.R.O.N., Sorbonnelaan 2, 3584 CA Utrecht.\nTel.: 030-535722. E-mail: henriks@sron.ruu.nl.\n\n\n\n******* DAGPROGRAMMA **************************************\n\n\n 9:30 ONTVANGST MET KOFFIE & THEE\n\n10:00 Opening\n Prof. dr. H.J.G.L.M. Lamers (Utrecht)\n\n10:10 Dubbelster evolutie\n Prof. dr. H.J.G.L.M. Lamers\n\n10:25 Radiopulsars\n Prof. dr. J.M.E. Kuijpers (Utrecht)\n\n11:00 Pulsars in dubbelster systemen\n Prof. dr. F. Verbunt (Utrecht)\n\n11:50 Massa & straal van neutronensterren\n Prof. dr. J. van Paradijs (Amsterdam)\n\n12:25 Theorie van accretieschijven\n Drs. R.F. van Oss (Utrecht)\n\n13:00 LUNCH\n\n14:00 Hoe zien accretieschijven er werkelijk uit?\n Dr. R.G.M. Rutten (Amsterdam)\n\n14:35 Snelle fluktuaties bij accretie op neutronensterren\n en zwarte gaten\n Dr. M. van der Klis (Amsterdam)\n\n15:10 THEE & KOFFIE\n\n15:30 Zwarte gaten: knippen en plakken met ruimte en tijd\n Prof. dr. V. Icke (leiden)\n\n16:05 afsluiting\n\n16:25 BORREL\n", "\nA harmonic of the Earth's gravitational field? What IS a harmonic of the\nEarth's gravitational field?\n\n\n14:1 resonance with WHAT? It's not like there's any wavelength or frequency\nto the Earth's gravitational field. Now, there' might be some interesting\ninteractions with the Moon's tidal effect--is that what you're talking about?\n\nWhat are the physics of the situation? The only way I can see gravitational\neffects being useful in adding energy to an object orbiting Earth is some\nsort of interaction with the moon.", "\nIt doesn't make a whole lot of difference, actually, since they weren't\nbuilding spares of the station hardware anyway. (Dumb.) At least this\nis only one launch to fail.", "\n\n You'll find that in Allen, C.W., \"Astrophysical Quantities\", Athlone\nPress, Dover, NH, 3rd edition, pp. 268-269 (1973). To the accuracy it can\nbe calculated (see specific references in Allen about how it is\ncalculated), the temperature is 3 degrees K.\n\n Lots of people have remarked on this temperature. The first may have\nbeen in Eddington's book, \"Internal Constitution of Stars\", Ch. 13 (1926;\nreprinted 1986), where he gives the \"temperature of space\" as 3 degrees.\n\n The source of this temperature is the radiation of starlight.\n\n\n To the accuracy of measurement, it's the same temperature. Some of us\nthink this may not be a coincidence. -|Tom|-\n", "NASA Headquarters distributed the following press\nrelease today (4/6). I've typed it in verbatim, for you\nfolks to chew over. Many of the topics recently\ndiscussed on sci.space are covered in this.\n\nGibbons Outlines Space Station Redesign Guidance\n\nDr. John H. Gibbons, Director, Office of Science and\nTechnology Policy, outlined to the members-designate of\nthe Advisory Committee on the Redesign of the Space\nStation on April 3, three budget options as guidance to\nthe committee in their deliberations on the redesign of\nthe space station.\n\nA low option of $5 billion, a mid-range option of $7\nbillion and a high option of $9 billion will be\nconsidered by the committee. Each option would cover\nthe total expenditures for space station from fiscal\nyear 1994 through 1998 and would include funds for\ndevelopment, operations, utilization, Shuttle\nintegration, facilities, research operations support,\ntransition cost and also must include adequate program\nreserves to insure program implementation within the\navailable funds.\n\nOver the next 5 years, $4 billion is reserved within\nthe NASA budget for the President's new technology\ninvestment. As a result, station options above $7\nbillion must be accompanied by offsetting reductions in\nthe rest of the NASA budget. For example, a space\nstation option of $9 billion would require $2 billion\nin offsets from the NASA budget over the next 5 years.\n\nGibbons presented the information at an organizational\nsession of the advisory committee. Generally, the\nmembers-designate focused upon administrative topics\nand used the session to get acquainted. They also\nreceived a legal and ethics briefing and an orientation\non the process the Station Redesign Team is following\nto develop options for the advisory committee to\nconsider.\n\nGibbons also announced that the United States and its\ninternational partners -- the Europeans, Japanese, and\nCanadians -- have decided, after consultation, to give\n\"full consideration\" to use of Russian assets in the\ncourse of the space station redesign process.\n\nTo that end, the Russians will be asked to participate\nin the redesign effort on an as-needed consulting\nbasis, so that the redesign team can make use of their\nexpertise in assessing the capabilities of MIR and the\npossible use of MIR and other Russian capabilities and\nsystems. The U.S. and international partners hope to\nbenefit from the expertise of the Russian participants\nin assessing Russian systems and technology. The\noverall goal of the redesign effort is to develop\noptions for reducing station costs while preserving key\nresearch and exploration capabilities. Careful\nintegration of Russian assets could be a key factor in\nachieving that goal.\n\nGibbons reiterated that, \"President Clinton is\ncommitted to the redesigned space station and to making\nevery effort to preserve the science, the technology\nand the jobs that the space station program represents.\nHowever, he also is committed to a space station that\nis well managed and one that does not consume the\nnational resources which should be used to invest in\nthe future of this industry and this nation.\"", "\n\nthey weren't even carrying extra suits.\n\nSo how much mass is saved by not burning the OMS? That's the critical question.\nMy data shows that the OMS engines hold 10,900 kg of propellant. Of that, a \nsubstantial fraction is going to be used for the first OMS burn, the reentry\nburn and the reserve. So Pat, tell us how much fuel the altitude change is\ngoing to take, and how much the EDO pallet, BUS-1 and extra parts are going\nmass. If you can make the numbers work out, _then_ I'll be interested. After\nyou show us that it can be done, then tell us how much the EDO pallet, BUS-1\nand extra equipment is going to cost. \n\n\n\n\nFirst, while astronauts certainly have done EVAs with minimal planning, that was\nbecause they _had_ to. They don't like to do that as a general rule.\n\nSecond, remember why they had to improvise during Intelsat 6? They were trying\nto attach a motor to a piece of hardware that wasn't designed to do that. \nTrying to shortcut the training is only going to make a repeat more likely.\n\nThird, they don't have eight months. They have however much time is left \nafter someone comes up with a plan, shows it can work and gets it approved.\nYou may think I have a pessimistic attitude. I think it's realistic. I'm not\nsaying that the engineering task is impossible (few engineering tasks are). \nWhat I'm saying is that this is neither cost effective nor feasible under NASA\nmanagement.\n\n\n\n\"All they have to do is soup it up?\" Just what does that mean? \n\n\n\n\nThe second servicing mission is a contingency. You have neither shown that it\nwould be necessary without your plan nor that it would be unnecessary with your\nplan. \n\n\nNo, Pat, I haven't forgotten.\n\n\nNo Pat. That's $500 million minus the cost of the new hardware, minus the cost\nof the extra struff you want to bring along, minus development and mangement \ncosts, minus extra operating costs. TANSTAAFL.\n\n\n\nI'm sure that if you reread this you'll see that your argument is falacious.\n\n\nPat, not only is this messy and less reliable than a device that's _made_ to \nperform this task, it also ignores the point. There is a desire to have \nastronauts available so that if the door fails to open, something can be done\nabout it. Unless you can provide a very reliable way of reopening the door,\nyou haven't solved the problem.\n", "\n...text of options \"A\" and \"B\" deleted...\n\n\nOnly 10KW?\n\n\nHa! \"North America Modular SPACE STATION construction\" :-)\nSame apprach, same reasoning: \"construction occurs under assembly\nline conditions, no random weather problems interupting site-work\non your home - better quality control\" -- sounds like first \"-\"\npoint above :-)\n\nSomehow I have a strange attraction for this idea (living in\na modular home maybe has altered my mind). The only thing\nthat scares me is the part about simply strapping 3 SSME's and\na nosecone on it and \"just launching it.\" I have this vision\nof something going terribly wrong with the launch resulting in the\ncomplete loss of the new modular space station (not just a peice of\nit as would be the case with staged in-orbit construction).\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nThis isn't inherently bad.\n\nThis isn't really light pollution since it will only\nbe visible shortly before or after dusk (or during the\nday).\n\n(Of course, if night only lasts 2 hours for you, you're probably going\nto be inconvienenced. But you're inconvienenced anyway in that case).\n\nFinally: this isn't the Bronze Age, and most of us aren't Indo\nEuropean; those people speaking Indo-Eurpoean languages often have\nmuch non-indo-european ancestry and cultural background. So:\nplease try to remember that there are more human activities than\nthose practiced by the Warrior Caste, the Farming Caste, and the\nPriesthood.\n\nAnd why act distressed that someone's found a way to do research\nthat doesn't involve socialism?\n\nIt certianly doesn't mean we deserve to die.", "\n\n -jeremy\nAre you talking about a single BATSE component, or\nthe whole thing?\n\nYou *could* propose a BATSE probe; launch two or three with ion\ndrive on various planetary trajectories... your resolution increaces\nthe more they're spaced apart. You could probably cheaply eject them\nfrom the solar system with enough flybys and patience.\n\nThings would start out slow, then slowly get better and better\nresolution...", "The observation that the Tree of Life would rotate clockwise in the\nnorthern hemisphere and counterclockwise in the southern probably doesn't\ngive enough consideration to the feebleness of the Coriolis force compared\nto, say, the phototropism of vegetation. A much more likely explanation\nis the classic one: that the clockwise swastika is the Sun-wheel, because\nthe sun progresses across the sky that way. (Although that's not the\nhistorical way it happened; clocks were first made as little imitation\nimages of the sun moving thru the heavens. So it's more valid to talk of\nthe clock going sunwise, but do the engineers listen to me? Of course\nnot.) Anyway, there is still much uncertainty about whether the\nanti-swastika goes counter-sunwise because that represents Evil, or\nbecause it is the Sun's twin-opposite, the Moonwheel. The use of anti-Sun\nto represent Evil may be because humans are so strongly visually-oriented,\nbut I'm not going to try to settle THAT one just now.\n-- Diccon Frankborn (dickeney@access.digex.com)\n", "Original to: wats@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM\nG'day wats@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM\n\n20 Apr 93 18:17, wats@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM wrote to All:\n\n wAC> wats@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM (Bruce Watson), via Kralizec 3:713/602\n\n wAC> The Apollo program cost something like $25 billion at a time when\n wAC> the value of a dollar was worth more than it is now. No one would\n wAC> take the offer.\n\nIf we assume 6% inflation since 1969, that $25B would be worth about $100B\nGD reckon a moon mission today could cost only $10B. Thats a factor of ten\nreduction in cost. It might be possible to reduce that number futher by\nusing a few shortcuts ( Russian rockets?). Asuming it gets built, I think\nthe Delta Clipper could very well achive the goal.\n\nta\n\nRalph", "Hello, \n \nI am new to this news group, but I need some info. I am \ncurrently doing a project for a class on the Internet. I am\nlooking for good sources of information on space and astronomy,\nmore notably, our own solar system. If anyone knows any good\nsites where I can get information about this kinda stuff, please \ne-mail me at STK1663@VAX003.STOCKTON.EDU. Thanx.\n \n ----Steve\n \n(my newsreader doesn't have a .sig yet, sorry.)", "\nWell Henry, we are often reminded how CANADA is not a part of the United States\n(yet). You could have quite a commercial A-SAT, er sky-cleaning service going\nin a few years. \n\n\"Toronto SkySweepers: Clear skies in 48 hours, or your money back.\"\n\t Discount rates available for astro-researchers. \n\n", "I need as much information about Cosmos 2238 and its rocket fragment (1993-\n018B) as possible. Both its purpose, launch date, location, in short,\nEVERYTHING! Can you help?\n\n-Tony Ryan, \"Astronomy & Space\", new International magazine, available from:\n Astronomy Ireland, P.O.Box 2888, Dublin 1, Ireland.\n6 issues (one year sub.): UK 10.00 pounds, US$20 surface (add US$8 airmail).\nACCESS/VISA/MASTERCARD accepted (give number, expiration date, name&address).", "\nThe problem with Commercial Titan is that MM has made little or no attempt\nto market it. They're basically happy with their government business and\ndon't want to have to learn how to sell commercially.\n\nA secondary problem is that it is a bit big. They'd need to go after\nmulti-satellite launches, a la Ariane, and that complicates the marketing\ntask quite significantly.\n\nThey also had some problems with launch facilities at just the wrong time\nto get them started properly. If memory serves, the pad used for the Mars\nObserver launch had just come out of heavy refurbishment work that had\nprevented launches from it for a year or so.\n\nThere have been a few CT launches. Mars Observer was one of them. So\nwas that stranded Intelsat, and at least one of its brothers that reached\norbit properly.", "\nI'd guess this was a garbled report of the NERVA effort to develop a\nsolid-core fission rocket (the most mundane type of nuclear rocket).\nThat was the only advanced-propulsion project that was done on a large\nenough scale to be likely to attract news attention. It *could* be any\nnumber of things -- the description given is awfully vague -- but I'd\nput a small bet on NERVA.", "All of this talk about a COMMERCIAL space race (i.e. $1G to the first 1-year \nmoon base) is intriguing. Similar prizes have influenced aerospace \ndevelopment before. The $25k Orteig prize helped Lindbergh sell his Spirit of \nSaint Louis venture to his financial backers.\n\nIf memory serves, the $25k prize would not have been enough to totally \nreimburse some of the more expensive transatlantic projects (such as \nFokker's, Nungesser and other multi-engine projects). However Lindbergh \nultimately kept his total costs below that amount.\n\nBut I strongly suspect that his Saint Louis backers had the foresight to \nrealize that much more was at stake than $25,000.\n\nCould it work with the moon? Who are the far-sighted financial backers of \ntoday?", "Hi all,\n\nI really thought that by now I would have seen something\nabout this, but I haven't, so here goes: Last night on\nthe evening news, the anchorperson said something to the\neffect that one of the SSRBs that was recovered after the\nrecent space shuttle launch was found to have a wrench of\nsome sort rattling around apparently inside the case. There\nwas no elaboration as to where specfically the item was\nfound, of what type of wrench it was, but the anchorperson\ndid say something about a NASA official commenting that\nthere would be an inquiry into how the thing got in the SSRB.\n\nHas anybody else on the net whose info sources may be \nbetter than mine heard anything about this? It seems rather\nweird.", "[Description of Boeing study of two-staged spaceplane using\nsupersonic ramjets deleted.]", "\nThat has sort of happened for real. Back in the 1920's travellers\nin the Sudan would find strange cigar shaped designs on native huts.\nWhen asked the locals would say it was a picture of the great omen\nthat appeared in the sky. This was LZ 53 a zepplin flying from Bulgaria\nto German East Africa with supplies in 1917 (and back since it was fooled\nby the British secret service.)", "Hey!? What happened to the solar sail race that was supposed to be\nfor Columbus+500?", "It is interesting to note in the past few days' correspondance that some\nbelieve that poor old New Mexico is not capable of hosting a commercial\nspace launch business. For many reasons, it can, and we here on the front\nlines see no reason why it should not. The 'spaceport political publicity'\nreferred to the other day had its intended effect - the state of New Mexico\ndid establish the start of the necessary government infrastructure to back a\ncommercial space port. The commanding general at WSMR is in full support of\ndual-use for the facilities. The WSMR location also has some strategic\nadvantages in the form of necessary infrastructure and controlled air space\nto support the project. Just because the folks involved have not done the\ntraditional aerospace-equivalent of vapor-ware by inviting folks out to kick\nnon-existent tires but have been merely doing their job to prepare for\nlaunch, don't think that nothing has happened. From my interactions with\nthe MACDAC folks, I get the impression that they want to set a firm,\nbelievable launch date based on vehicle readiness and not just some fiction\nto plug a space on a calendar. I believe that all will happen this summer\nand don't worry, the locals here are planning to let everyone know when it\ndoes occur.\nStephen Horan\nshoran@nmsu.edu\n", "Why do spacecraft have to be shut off after funding cuts. For\nexample, Why couldn't Magellan just be told to go into a \"safe\"\nmode and stay bobbing about Venus in a low-power-use mode and if\nmaybe in a few years if funding gets restored after the economy\ngets better (hopefully), it could be turned on again. \n\nFor that matter, why exactly were the Apollo lunar experiments\n\"turned off\" rather than just \"safed\". Was it political (i.e.\nas along as they could be used, someone would keep bugging\ncongress for funds)? Turning them off keeps them pesky\nscientists out of the bureaucrat's hair.... \n\nI've heard the argument that an active but \"uncontrolled\"\nspacecraft causes \"radio noise.\" I find that hard to believe\nthat this could be a problem in a properly designed \"safe\" mode.\nThis safe mode could be a program routine which causes the\nspacecraft to go to least fuel using orientation, and once a\n(week, month, year, whatever) attempts a signal lock on Earth.\nAt that time, if funding has been restored, the mission can\ncontinue. If no signal is recieved, the spacecraft goes back to\nthe safe mode for another time period. As we would know when the\nspacecraft is going to try to contact Earth, we could be\nprepared if necessary. \n\nAs another a spacecraft could do at the attempted contact is\nbeam stored data towards Earth. If someone can receive it,\ngreat, if not, so it's lost and no big deal.\nBy making the time and signal location generally known, perhaps\nsomeone in the world might be able and willing to intercept the\ndata even if they're not willing to contact the spacecraft.\n\nI see this as being particularly useful for spacecraft which\ncould have an otherwise long life and are in or are going to\nplaces which are otherwise unaccessible (Jupiter/Saturn Orbit,\nexiting the solar system, etc). \n\nPerhaps those designing future spacecraft (Cassini, Pluto Flyby,\netc) should consider designing in a \"pause\" mode in case their\nspacecraft gets the ax sometime in the future after completion of\nthe primary mission. Perhaps Mars Observer and Galilleo could\nhave some kind of routine written in for the post mission\n\"drift\" phase.\n\nSo any holes in all this?\n", "From the \"JPL Universe\"\nApril 23, 1993\n\nVLBI project meets with international space agencies", "\nThe people involved in it have been building hardware rather than writing\npress releases. This is not a high-manpower project; they don't *have*\nspare people sitting around.\n\nAs I understand it, there has also been some feeling on the part of some\nof the project management that publicity was not a good idea. A lot of\npeople have been working on changing this view, with some success.", "There is a guy in NASA Johnson Space Center that might answer \nyour question. I do not have his name right now but if you follow \nup I can dig that out for you.\n\nC.O.Egalon@larc.nasa.gov", "Ed Campion\nHeadquarters, Washington, D.C. April 23, 1993\n(Phone: 202/358-1780)\n\nKyle Herring\nJohnson Space Center, Houston\n(Phone: 713/483-5111)\n\nRELEASE: 93-76\n\nHUBBLE TELESCOPE SERVICING MISSION SCHEDULED FOR ELEVEN DAYS\n\n\tThe December flight of Endeavour on Space Shuttle mission STS-61 to\nservice the Hubble Space Telescope (HST) has been scheduled as an 11 day\nmission designed to accommodate a record five spacewalks with the capability\nfor an additional two, if needed.\n\n\tThe decision to schedule five extravehicular activities, or EVAs, was\nreached following extensive evaluations of underwater training, maneuver times\nrequired using the Shuttle's robot arm based on software simulations and actual\nEVA tasks on previous missions.\n\n\t\"Basically what we've done by going to five EVAs rather than three is\nto repackage our margin so that we have the capability to respond to the\ndynamics, or unknowns, of spacewalks,\" Mission Director Randy Brinkley said.\n\"It improves the probabilities for mission success while providing added\nflexibility and adaptability for reacting to real-time situations.\"\n\n\tIn laying out the specific tasks to be completed on each of the\nspacewalks, officials have determined that changing out the gyros, solar arrays\nand the Wide Field/Planetary Camera (WF/PC) and installing the Corrective\nOptics Space Telescope Axial Replacement (COSTAR) are priority objectives\nduring the mission.\n\n\t\"When we looked at accomplishing all of the tasks, highest through\nlowest priority, and recognizing that the major tasks -- gyros, solar arrays,\nWF/PC and COSTAR -- would consume most of the time set aside for each\nspacewalk, five EVAs were deemed appropriate,\" said Milt Heflin, Lead Flight\nDirector for the mission.\n\n\tWhile the five spacewalks will be unprecedented, the use of two\nalternating spacewalk teams will alleviate placing more stress on the crew than\nprevious missions requiring two, three or four EVAs.\n\n\t\"We have paid close attention to lessons learned during previous\nspacewalks and factored these into our timeline estimates for five EVAs,\"\nHeflin said. \"In planning for all Space Shuttle missions, it is necessary to\nformulate a work schedule that represents as realistic a timeline as possible\nto accomplish the mission objectives.\"\n\n\tPlanning currently calls for at least five water tank training sessions\nthat include support from the Mission Control Center, called joint integrated\nsimulations, lasting between 10 and 36 hours. In addition, many stand alone\nunderwater training \"runs\" will practice individual tasks in each spacewalk.\n\n\tVarious refinements to the specific tasks on each spacewalk will be\nmade based on actual training experience during the months prior to the\nmission. Also, lessons learned from other spacewalks leading up to the flight\nwill be valuable in assisting the STS-61 crew in its training techniques.\n\n\tEndeavour's June flight and Discovery's July mission both will include\nspacewalks to evaluate some of the unique tools to be used on the HST mission.\nThe evaluations will help in better understanding the differences between the\nactual weightlessness of space and the ground training in the water tanks at\nthe Johnson Space Center, Houston, and the Marshall Space Flight Center,\nHuntsville, Ala.\n\n\tAlso, the inflight spacewalking experiences will assist in gaining\nfurther insight into the time required for the various tasks and expand the\nexperience levels among the astronaut corps, the flight controllers and\ntrainers.\n\n\tDesigned to be serviced by a Space Shuttle crew, Hubble was built with\ngrapple fixtures and handholds to assist in the capture and repair procedures.\n\n\tThe telescope was launched aboard Discovery in April 1990. At that\ntime the NASA mixed fleet manifest showed the first revisit mission to HST in\n1993 to change out science instruments and make any repairs that may have\nbecome necessary.", "\n\tLadies & Gentlemen... Please keep this discussion in\n\tcomp.os.ms-windows.advocacy where it belongs.\n\tThank you.\n\nJohn A. Grant\t\t\t\t\t\tjagrant@emr1.emr.ca\nAirborne Geophysics\nGeological Survey of Canada, Ottawa", "\nThis is actually more like the stuff from Phase A and MOL....Phase B ended\nwith a \"Power Tower\" approach....", "\n\nWell it rolled out two weeks ago. As we speak it is at White Sands getting\nready. I would have called my sources for the latest but they are all out\nof town (in NM).\n\nAs for the future, there is at least $5M in next years budget for work\non SSRT. They (SDIO) have been looking for more funds and do seem to have\nsome. However, SDIO is not (I repeat, is not) going to fund an orbital\nprototype. The best we can hope from them is to 1) keep it alive for\nanother year, and 2) fund a suborbital vehicle which MIGHT (with\nmajor modifications) just make orbit. There is also some money for a\nset of prototype tanks and projects to answer a few more open questions.\n\nBetter news comes from the new Spacelifter effort. The USAF managers of\nthis program are very open to SSTO and will have about $50M next\nyear for studies. This would be enough to bring DC-Y to PDR.\n\nNow not all of this money will go to DC but a good case could be made\nfor spending half on DC.\n\nPublic support is STILL critical. Meet with your Congressperson (I'll\nhelp you do it) and get his/her support. Also call your local media\nans get them to cover the flight tests.\n\n Allen", "The most current orbital elements from the NORAD two-line element sets are\ncarried on the Celestial BBS, (513) 427-0674, and are updated daily (when\npossible). Documentation and tracking software are also available on this\nsystem. As a service to the satellite user community, the most current\nelements for the current shuttle mission are provided below. The Celestial\nBBS may be accessed 24 hours/day at 300, 1200, 2400, 4800, or 9600 bps using\n8 data bits, 1 stop bit, no parity.\n\nElement sets (also updated daily), shuttle elements, and some documentation\nand software are also available via anonymous ftp from archive.afit.af.mil\n(129.92.1.66) in the directory pub/space.\n\nSTS 56 \n1 22621U 93 23 A 93105.06179397 .00044513 00000-0 12649-3 0 230\n2 22621 57.0022 147.2850 0004246 288.7332 38.0941 15.92991629 1084\n1993 023B \n1 22623U 93 23 B 93103.37312705 .00041032 00000-0 11888-3 0 86\n2 22623 57.0000 155.1150 0004422 293.4650 66.5967 15.92653917 803", "\nThere are no Mariner craft from which we are still receiving data. I believe\nyou are referring to one or more of Pioneers 6 through 9 (launched from\nDecember 1965 through November 1968), which were put into solar orbits to study\ninterplanetary space. I recall reading that at least one of them was still\nfunctioning 25 years after launch.", "\nVoyager has the unusual luck to be on a stable trajectory out of the\nsolar system. All it's doing is collecting fields data, and routinely\nsquirting it down. One of the mariners is also in stable\nsolar orbit, and still providing similiar solar data. \n\nSomething in a planetary orbit, is subject to much more complex forces.\n\nComsats, in \"stable \" geosynch orbits, require almost daily\nstationkeeping operations. \n\nFor the occasional deep space bird, like PFF after pluto, sure\nit could be left on \"auto-pilot\". but things like galileo or\nmagellan, i'd suspect they need enough housekeeping that\neven untended they'd end up unusable after a while.\n\nThe better question should be.\n\nWhy not transfer O&M of all birds to a separate agency with continous funding\nto support these kind of ongoing science missions.\n\npat\n\n\tWhen ongoing ops are mentioned, it seems to always quote Operations\nand Data analysis. how much would it cost to collect the data\nand let it be analyzed whenever. kinda like all that landsat data\nthat sat around for 15 years before someone analyzed it for the ozone hole.", "\nHMMM... that brings up a neat idea. \n\nUnfortunately, it's SOOO neat, I think I ought to patent it.\n\nSo I can't tell you about it.\n\nSorry. :-)\n\n\t-Bill\n\nCopyright 1993 William S. Yerazunis (aka Crah the Merciless)\nAll rights reserved, no responsibility taken.", "I am looking for any information about the space program.\nThis includes NASA, the shuttles, history, anything! I would like to\nknow if anyone could suggest books, periodicals, even ftp sites for a\nnovice who is interested in the space program.\n\n", "\nThe Apollo fire was harsh, A Saturn V explosion would have been\nhurtful but The Soviets winning would have been crushing. That could have\nbeen *the* technological turning point for the US turning us\nfrom Today's \"We can do anything, we're *the* Super Power\" to a much more\nreserved attitude like the Soviet Program today.\n\nKennedy was gone by 68\\69, the war was still on is the east, I think\nthe program would have stalled badly and the goal of the moon\nby 70 would have been dead with Nasa trying to figure were they went wrong.\n \n\nI speulate that:\n+The Saturn program would have been pushed into\nthe 70s with cost over runs that would just be too evil. \nNixon still wins.\n+The Shuttle was never proposed and Skylab never built.\n+By 73 the program stalled yet again under the fuel crisis.\n+A string of small launches mark the mid seventies.\n+By 76 the goal of a US man on the moon is dead and the US space program\ndrifts till the present day.\n", "\n\nThe temperature of intergalactic space (or intercluster or \nintersupercluster space) would be very, very close to the microwave \nbackground temperature, 2.73 kelvins. I recall that in interstellar \nspace in our neighborhood of the galaxy it's something like 4 K.\n\nIs that what you were looking for?\n", "\n\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nOcean Reconnaissance Launch Surprises West\nSpace News, April 5-11, 1993, p.2\n[Excerpts]\n Russia launched its first ocean reconnaissance satellite in 26 months \nMarch 30, confounding Western analysts who had proclaimed the program dead. \n The Itar-TASS news agency announced the launch of Cosmos 2238 from \nPlesetsk Cosmodrome, but provided little description of the payload's mission. \n However, based on the satellite's trajectory, Western observers \nidentified it as a military spacecraft designed to monitor electronic \nemissions from foreign naval ships in order to track their movement. \n Geoff Perry of the Kettering Group in England... [said] Western \nobservers had concluded that no more would be launched. But days after the \nlast [such] satellite re-entered the Earth's atmosphere, Cosmos 2238 was \nlaunched. \n\n\"Cosmos-2238\" Satellite Launched for Defense Ministry\nMoscow ITAR-TASS World Service in Russian 1238 GMT 30 March 1993\nTranslated in FBIS-SOV-93-060, p.27\nby ITAR-TASS correspondent Veronika Romanenkova\n Moscow, 30 March -- The Cosmos-2238 satellite was launched at 1600 Moscow \ntime today from the Baykonur by a \"Tsiklon-M\" carrier rocket. An ITAR-TASS \ncorrespondent was told at the press center of Russia's space-military forces \nthat the satellite was launched in the interests of the Russian Defense \nMinistry. ", "What is NASA's annual budget?\nThis year will do, a few years back wpuld be nice too\nbut I need this item fast so emails off the top of your head very\nmuch appreciated (FAQs vanish here!).\n\n-Tony Ryan, \"Astronomy & Space\", new International magazine, available from:\n Astronomy Ireland, P.O.Box 2888, Dublin 1, Ireland.\n6 issues (one year sub.): UK 10.00 pounds, US$20 surface (add US$8 airmail).\nACCESS/VISA/MASTERCARD accepted (give number, expiration date, name&address).", "Re: Space billboards\n\nEven easier to implement than writing messages on the Moon, once upon\na time a group of space activists I belonged to in Seattle considered\na \"Goodyear Blimp in orbit\". The idea was to use a large structure\nthat could carry an array of lights like the Goodyear Blimp has.\nPlaced in a low Earth orbit of high inclination, it could eventually\nbe seen by almost everyone on Earth. Only our collective disapproval\nof cluttering up space with such a thing stopped us from pursuing\nit. It had quite feasible economics, which I will not post here\nbecause I don't want to encourage the idea (if you want to do such\na thing, go figure it out for yourself).\n\nDani Eder\n", "Given that what i described for the HST seemed to be the SMT, and given\nthe mass amrgins on the discovery mission is tight enough that spacewalking\nhas to be carefully constrained..... No EDO pallets, no spare Suits,\nno extra MMU's. \n\nWHy not do this?\n\n\tQuick Test Goldins philosophjy of faster cheaper, better.\n\nBuild a real fast Space TUg, to handle the re-boost of the HST using\nclean Cryo fuels, and get it ready before the HST mission.\n\nIf NASA could build Mercury in 13 months, they should be able to make\nan SMT in 9. \n\nHow much would it need?\n\nGuidance package. Use a Voyager spare. \n\nThruster gear, Use H2O2, or LOX/LH.\n\nBus Use a Commsat.\n\nGrapple fixture. Use a stripped down Canadarm.\n\nComms package. SPare X-band omni gear.", "===\nI aint talking the large or even the \"mining companies\" I am talking the small\nminers, the people who have themselves and a few employees (if at all).The\npeople who go out every year and set up thier sluice box, and such and do\nmining the semi-old fashion way.. (okay they use modern methods toa point).\n\nI am talking the guy who coem to Nome evry year, sets up his tent on the beach\n(the beach was washed away last year) and sets up his/her sluice box and goes\nat it \"mining\".\nI know the large corps, such as Alaska Gold Company, might complain to..\n\nMy opinions are what I learn at the local BS table..\n\nMy original thing/idea was that the way to get space mining was to allow the\neco-freaks thier way.. As they have done with other mineral development.\nYou can't in many places can't go to the bathroom in the woods without some\nform of regulation covering it.. ", "\nMy least favorite last line of a post. Um, it is of general interest.\nAs I prepare to retire 22 Apollos myself, I'm looking for ways to \nrecycle the useful parts.", "\n\n\nNo, the sky does not, at this time, belong to anyone. Ownership is necessary\nto the definition because someone has to have the authority to decide if the\naction was good or bad. If neither you or I own a brick wall, then I can't\nunilaterally declare that spraypainting my name on it is right, and you don't\nhave the authority to declare that it is wrong. The owner may find it artistic\nor she may be call the police.\n\n(this applies to the argument on bright satellites more than street lights)\n\nIt's vandalism because many people -- power companies -- do maliciously waste light. \n\n\"maliciously\" implies evil intent. The lighting companies aren't going out\nof their way to spoil the sky. They just don't care.\n\n\nIt is the responsibility of the customer to choose the most efficient hardware.\nIf that's what your city will buy, that's what the lighting company will sell.\nWrite a letter to city hall.\n\nPlease note that I'm not defending light pollution. The orignial focus of \nthis thread was space based light sources.\n\n", "\n\nUh, why do they have to ask a state commision? Unless the state's buying...\n\nSuch a process will only increace the overhead to the power company\nof selling different types of light, and will decreace the likleihood\nthat they will do so. And any efficient lights they might have been\nplanning in the future, go down the drain.....\n\n\nYou could order it special. If enough people did so, it would be \nlow cost. Last I checked, you could use UPS to buy stuff in Arizona\nbefore going there.\n\nFinally, I'm sure your state has things like small factories and\nmachine shops. You could go into business making lights that are\ncheaper to use (thanks to their higher efficiency and the\nfact that they aren't wasting energy on broadcasting to space)\nand therefore _better_ than the old style...\n\n\nFive year plans have to be enacted or the planning for the economy\nwill fall apart.\n \n\nAs if the clean air act really cleaned up the air...\n\n\n_MY_ *experience* seems to suggest that you're trying too hard\nto *educate* them (with the same methods used in American schools\nto make any subject whatsoever as relevant and boring as Proto-Ugric)\ninstead of *selling* them on the idea.\n\n...\n\nWell, wake up. Space is becoming a field of human endeavor\ninstead of just something we can look at from a long long\nway away. There are practical space projects that could conceivably\n(although probably not) cause lots of light pollution, and \nhave been argued against on those grounds, even though they\nmight open up such possibilities, that people could vacation on\nMars if they wanted really dark skies...\n\n", "How difficult would it be to do a solar sail mission to say mercury?\n\nNot much has been there and there is a 23?KM/s delta v to eat off.\n\ncould a solar sail, handle say adiscovery bus, and drop it into\nmercury orbit, good enough for rockets to put it into some\nform of polar orbit?", "Introducing the Back to the Moon in Congress:\n The Next Step\n \n The next key hurdle for the Lunar Resources Data Purchase \nAct is introduction of the Act in Congress. At this point, many\ncongresspersons have been approached about the bill. However,\nfor a successful effort to pass the bill, we need the best\npossible congressperson to introduce the bill. Due to his\nposition as Chair of the House Committee on Space and Science,\nCongressman George Brown is the logical choice. He has a long\nrecord of support and interest in space development, and helped\npass the Launch Services Purchase Act and the Space Settlements\nAct. \n There is a small group of activists in southern California \nwho have assisted George Brown in his recent re-election campaigns.\nWe are mobilizing this group to have them tell Congressman Brown\nabout the Back to the Moon bill. We are also asking pro-space\nconstituents to let him know that they care about getting\nAmerica back to the Moon.\n Finally, there is a good chance that a nationwide alert \nfor space activists to call or write George Brown to have him\nintroduce the Back to the Moon bill may be staged during late\nspring, 1993.\n All this should produce a positive reaction from Brown's\noffice. As more is known, it will be passed on.\n However, even if we are successful in getting him to support\nthe bill, this alone will not ensure passage of the bill. For\nany bill to become law, one of three conditions must exist:\neither the bill must reflect widespread national support for an\nissue (such as extension of unemployment insurance benefits); be\npropelled by high-priced lobbyists (we're out of luck there); or\nhave widespread support within Congress, due to small, but\nwidespread, constituent support. The latter is the path that we,\nby necessity, must choose. \n This means that the introduction of the Lunar Resources \nData Purchase Act must be immediately accompanied by a large number\nof congresspersons' sponsorship of the bill. To accomplish\nthis, we need activists to ask their congressperson to support\nthe Lunar Resources Data Purchase Act - now. To wait until the\nbill is introduced is simply too late - it takes time to have a\ncongressperson's staff review a bill.\n If your congressperson mentions that the bill is not yet\nintroduced, please elicit their opinion of the bill as currently\nwritten. We appreciate all comments on the bill from activists\nand politicians.\n If you have yet to see the Back to the Moon bill, please\nrequest a copy by Email (please include your U.S. postal service\naddress), or contact your local chapter of the National Space\nSociety).", "I propose that PepsiCo, Mcdonalds and other companies could put \ninto orbit banners that have timely political messages, such as,\n\n \"Stop the slaughter in Bosnia!\"\n\n, etc.", "\nIf I read you right, you're saying in essence that, with a larger\neconomy, nations will have more discretionary funds to *waste*\non a lunar facility. That was certainly partially the case with Apollo, \nbut real Lunar colonies will probably require a continuing military,\nscientific, or commercial reason for being rather than just a \"we have \nthe money, why not?\" approach.\n\nIt's conceivable that Luna will have a military purpose, it's possible\nthat Luna will have a commercial purpose, but it's most likely that\nLuna will only have a scientific purpose for the next several hundred\nyears at least. Therefore, Lunar bases should be predicated on funding\nlevels little different from those found for Antarctic bases. Can you\nput a 200 person base on the Moon for $30 million a year? Even if you\nuse grad students?\n\nGary", "The SDIO has \"contracted\" with the NRL (Naval Research Laboratory) to fly the Clementine Mission. BTW we call it DSPSE (Deep Space Project Science Experiment).\n\nThe NRL is building the spacecraft, designing the detailed mission and doing the\nintegration and operations (with help from, JPL & Goddard & prob. some folks I\nhave left out...don't be mad).\n\nI am on the TAMP (Trajectory Analysis & Mission Planning) team and am responsable\nfor the IV&V of the traj that Goddard/CSC are designing.\n\nAs for why SDIO is doing it, some of the reasons are:\n\n 1) the safety constraints are too tight to try to run the LIDAR in LEO\n\n 2) in LEO we don't get any new radiation data on the sensors, we will get\n that data on our 9 passages through the Van Allen (sp?) Belts\n\n 3) since we are going out there...why not piggy-back some general science\n\n 4) the intercept problem is a lot easied over LONG distances and LONG times\n\nI am sure there are some things I have forgotten, and some I haven't been told\nbut, those are the reasons we all talk about.\n\n-- \n", "\nSeems like a lot of trouble to go to. Its probably better to \ninvest in newer launch systems. I don't think a big cost advantage\nfor using Russian systems will last for very long (maybe a few years). \nLockheed would be the place to ask, since you would probably have to buy \nthe Proton from them (they market the Proton world wide except Russia). \nThey should know a lot about the possibilities, I haven't heard them\npropose US launches, so I assume they looked into it and found it \nunprofitable. \n\n\nYes...\n\n\nComparable to the Zenit I suppose, but since it looks like\nnothing will be built there, you might just as well pick any\nspot.\n\nThe message is: to launch now while its cheap and while Russia and\nKazakstan are still cooperating. Later, the story may be different.", " \n Hmm... there must be two towns with the same name. Kaliningrad,\nlocated just North of Moscow is correct. It is the home of several\nRussian space enterprises, including NPO Energia, Krunichev, Fakel,\nand Tsniimach. The main Russian manned spacecraft control facility\nis also located here.\n Kaliningrad is easily reachable by auto from Moscow, and tours\ncan be arranged. Call ahead though, there are still armed military\nguards at many of these facilities -- who don't speak English,\naren't well paid, and are rather bored.\n It's a very popular destination with Western space industry\ntypes at the moment.\n ----------------------------------------------------------------\n Wales Larrison Space Technology Investor", "\nThe National Air & Space Museum has both the prototype and the film.\nWhen I was there, some years ago, they had the prototype on display and\nthe film continuously repeating.", "I'm not sure if this will help you, but the (local) interstellar\nradiation field has been measured and modeled by various groups. If I\nremember things correctly, the models involved contributions from three\ndifferent BB sources, so there's no obvious \"temperature\" of background\nradiation in our local area. However, the following references give the\ninterstellar radiation density as a function of wavelength, and you can\nintegrate and average in an appropriate manner to get an \"effective\"\ntemperature if you like:\n\nWitt and Johnson (1973) Astrophys. J. 181, 363 - 368\nHenry et al. (1980) Astrophys. J. 239, 859 - 866\nMathis et al. (1983) Astron. Astrophys. 128, 212 - 229\n\nAs you can see, the references are out of date, but they might get you\nstarted.\n\nHope this helps,", ":>... Also, as implied by other posters, why \n:>do you need to boost the orbit on this mission anyway? ...\n:You don't *need* to, but it's desirable. HST, like all satellites in\n:low Earth orbit, is gradually losing altitude due to air drag. It was\n:deployed in the highest orbit the shuttle could reach, for that reason.\n:It needs occasional reboosting or it will eventually reenter. (It has\n:no propulsion system of its own.)\n\nHas any thought been given as to how they are going to boost the HST yet?\nGive it a push? I can see the push start cartoons now :-).\n", "I've been to three talks in the last month which might be of interest. I've \ntranscribed some of my notes below. Since my note taking ability is by no means\ninfallible, please assume that all factual errors are mine. Permission is \ngranted to copy this without restriction.\n\nNote for newbies: The Delta Clipper project is geared towards producing a\nsingle staget to orbit, reusable launch vehicle. The DC-X vehicle is a 1/3\nscale vehicle designed to test some of the concepts invovled in SSTO. It is \ncurrently undergoing tests. The DC-Y vehicle would be a full scale \nexperimental vehicle capable of reaching orbit. It has not yet been funded.\n\nOn April 6th, Rocky Nelson of MacDonnell Douglas gave a talk entitled \n\"Optimizing Techniques for Advanced Space Missions\" here at the University of\nIllinois. Mr Nelson's job involves using software to simulate trajectories and\ndetermine the optimal trajectory within given requirements. Although he is\nnot directly involved with the Delta Clipper project, he has spent time with \nthem recently, using his software for their applications. He thus used \nthe DC-Y project for most of his examples. While I don't think the details\nof implicit trajectory simulation are of much interest to the readers (I hope\nthey aren't - I fell asleep during that part), I think that many of you will\nbe interested in some of the details gleaned from the examples.\n\nThe first example given was the maximization of payload for a polar orbit. The\nmain restriction is that acceleration must remain below 3 Gs. I assume that\nthis is driven by passenger constraints rather than hardware constraints, but I\ndid not verify that. The Delta Clipper Y version has 8 engines - 4 boosters\nand 4 sustainers. The boosters, which have a lower isp, are shut down in \nmid-flight. Thus, one critical question is when to shut them down. Mr Nelson\nshowed the following plot of acceleration vs time:\n ______\n3 G /| / |\n / | / | As ASCII graphs go, this is actually fairly \n / | / |\t good. The big difference is that the lines\n2 G / |/ | made by the / should be curves which are\n / | concave up. The data is only approximate, as\n / | the graph wasn't up for very long.\n1 G / |\n |\n |\n0 G |\n\n ^ ^\n ~100 sec ~400 sec\n\n\nAs mentioned before, a critical constraint is that G levels must be kept below\n3. Initially, all eight engines are started. As the vehicle burns fuel the\naccelleration increases. As it gets close to 3G, the booster engines are \nthrotled back. However, they quickly become inefficient at low power, so it\nsoon makes more sense to cut them off altogether. This causes the dip in \naccelleration at about 100 seconds. Eventually the remaining sustainer engines\nbring the G level back up to about 3 and then hold it there until they cut\nout entirely.\n\nThe engine cutoff does not acutally occur in orbit. The trajectory is aimed\nfor an altitude slightly higher than the 100nm desired and the last vestiges of\nair drag slow the vehicle slightly, thus lowering the final altitude to \nthat desired.\n\nQuestions from the audience: (paraphrased)\n\nQ: Would it make sense to shut down the booster engines in pairs, rather than\n all at once?\n\nA: Very perceptive. Worth considering. They have not yet done the simulation. Shutting down all four was part of the problem as given.\n\nQ: So what was the final payload for this trajectory?\n\nA: Can't tell us. \"Read Aviation Leak.\" He also apparently had a good \n propulsion example, but was told not to use it. \n\nMy question: Does anyone know if this security is due to SDIO protecting\nnational security or MD protecting their own interests?\n\nThe second example was reentry simulation, from orbit to just before the pitch\nup maneuver. The biggest constraint in this one is aerodynamic heating, and \nthe parameter they were trying to maximize was crossrange. He showed graphs\nof heating using two different models, to show that both were very similar,\nand I think we were supposed to assume that this meant they were very accurate.\nThe end result was that for a polar orbit landing at KSC, the DC-Y would have\nabout 30 degrees of crossrange and would start it's reentry profile about \n60 degrees south latitude.\n\nI would have asked about the landing maneuvers, but he didn't know about that\naspect of the flight profile.\n", "u920496@daimi.aau.dk (Hans Erik Martino Hansen) writes\n\n\nArthur C. Clarke was way ahead of you on this one... he wrote a short story\n(title?) in the 1950s describing exactly your proposal!", "\n\n\nIt's been suggested. (Specifically, lightning strikes between clouds\nin the interstellar medium.)\n", "Does anyone have a reference (something I can look up, not just your own\nrecollections -- I have a few of those myself) on the temperature of the\n(night) sky as seen from space?\n\nNote, I am *not* talking about the temperature of the Microwave Background\nRadiation. There are more things in the sky than just the MBR; what I'm\nafter is total blackbody temperature -- what a thermal radiator would see,\ndisregarding (or shielding against) the Sun and nearby large warm objects.\nMy dim recollection is that the net effective temperature is substantially\nhigher than that of the MBR, once you figure in things like stars and the\nzodiacal light, but I'd like numbers.", "\n\nI think I can. Largely as a result of efforts by people reading this group\nwriting letters and making phone calls the following has happened:\n\n1. NASA reprogrammed funds to keep NASP alive in 1991.\n2. Efforts to kill DC-X and the SSRT progam where twice twarted\n (Feb. and June of last year).\n3. Gouldin kept his job in spite of heavy lobbying against him.\n\nThis may not be what Mark was thinking of but it shows that the\nreaders of sci.space DO have power and influence.\n\n Allen\n", "\nHere I am!!\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDavid Smyth\t\t\t\tdavid@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov\nSenior Software Engineer,\t\t(818)306-6463 (temp! do NOT use v-mail)\nX and Object Guru.\t\t\ttempory office: 525/B70\nJet Propulsion Lab, M/S 525-3660 4800 Oak Grove Drive, Pasadena, CA 91109\n------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n What's the earliest possible date you can't prove it won't be done by?\n\t\t\t\t\t- Tom DeMarco", "McDonnell Douglas rolls out DC-X\n\n HUNTINGTON BEACH, Calif. -- On a picture-perfect Southern\nCalifornia day, McDonnell Douglas rolled out its DC-X rocket ship last\nSaturday. The company hopes this single-stage rocket technology\ndemonstrator will be the first step towards a single-stage-to-orbit (SSTO)\nrocket ship.\n\n The white conical vehicle was scheduled to go to the White Sands\nMissile Range in New Mexico this week. Flight tests will start in\nmid-June.\n\n Although there wasn't a cloud in the noonday sky, the forecast for\nSSTO research remains cloudy. The SDI Organization -- which paid $60\nmillion for the DC-X -- can't itself afford to fund full development of a\nfollow-on vehicle. To get the necessary hundreds of millions required for\na sub-orbital DC-XA, SDIO is passing a tin cup among its sister government\nagencies.\n\n SDIO originally funded SSTO research as a way to cut the costs for\norbital deployments of space-based sensors and weapns. However, recent\nchanges in SDI's political marching orders and budget cuts have made SSTO\nless of a priority. Today, the agency is more interested in using DC-X as\na step towards a low-cost, reusable sounding rocket.\n\n SDIO has already done 50 briefings to other government agencies,\nsaid Col. Simon \"Pete\" Worden, SDIO's deputy for technology. But Worden\ndeclined to say how much the agencies would have to pony up for the\nprogram. \"I didn't make colonel by telling my contractors how much money I\nhave available to spend,\" he quipped at a press conference at McDonnell\nDouglas Astronautics headquarters.\n\n While SDIO has lowered its sights on the program's orbital\nobjective, agency officials hail the DC-X as an example of the \"better,\nfaster, cheaper\" approach to hardware development. The agency believes\nthis philosophy can produce breakthroughs that \"leapfrog\" ahead of\nevolutionary technology developments.\n\n Worden said the DC-X illustrates how a \"build a little, test a\nlittle\" approach can produce results on time and within budget. He said\nthe program -- which went from concept to hardware in around 18 months --\nshowed how today's engineers could move beyond the \"miracles of our\nparents' time.\"\n\n \"The key is management,\" Worden said. \"SDIO had a very light hand\non this project. We had only one overworked major, Jess Sponable.\"\n\n Although the next phase may involve more agencies, Worden said\nlean management and a sense of government-industry partnership will be\ncrucial. \"It's essential we do not end up with a large management\nstructure where the price goes up exponentially.\"\n\n SDIO's approach also won praise from two California members of the\nHouse Science, Space and Technology Committee. \"This is the direction\nwe're going to have to go,\" said Rep. George Brown, the committee's\nDemocratic chairman. \"Programs that stretch aout 10 to 15 years aren't\nsustainable....NASA hasn't learned it yet. SDIO has.\"\n\n Rep. Dana Rohrbacher, Brown's Republican colleague, went further.\nJoking that \"a shrimp is a fish designed by a NASA design team,\"\nRohrbacher doubted that the program ever would have been completed if it\nwere left to the civil space agency.\n\n Rohrbacher, whose Orange County district includes McDonnell\nDouglas, also criticized NASA-Air Force work on conventional, multi-staged\nrockets as placing new casings around old missile technology. \"Let's not\nbuild fancy ammunition with capsules on top. Let's build a spaceship!\"\n\n Although Rohrbacher praised SDIO's sponsorship, he said the\nprivate sector needs to take the lead in developing SSTO technology.\n\n McDonnell Douglas, which faces very uncertain prospects with its\nC-17 transport and Space Station Freedom programs, were more cautious\nabout a large private secotro commitment. \"On very large ventures,\ncompanies put in seed money,\" said Charles Ordahl, McDonnell Douglas'\nsenior vice president for space systems. \"You need strong government\ninvestments.\"\n\n While the government and industry continue to differ on funding\nfor the DC-XA, they agree on continuing an incremental approach to\ndevelopment. Citing corporate history, they liken the process to Douglas\nAircraft's DC aircraft. Just as two earlier aircraft paved the way for\nthe DC-3 transport, a gradual evolution in single-stage rocketry could\neventually lead to an orbital Delta Clipper (DC-1).\n\n Flight tests this summer at White Sands will \"expand the envelope\"\nof performance, with successive tests increasing speed and altitude. The\nfirst tests will reach 600 feet and demonstrate hovering, verticle\ntake-off and landing. The second series will send the unmanned DC-X up to\n5,000 feet. The third and final series will take the craft up to 20,000\nfeet.\n\n Maneuvers will become more complex on third phase. The final\ntests will include a \"pitch-over\" manever that rotates the vehicle back\ninto a bottom-down configuration for a soft, four-legged landing.\n\n The flight test series will be supervised by Charles \"Pete\"\nConrad, who performed similar maneuvers on the Apollo 12 moon landing.\nNow a McDonnell Douglas vice president, Conrad paised the vehicles\naircraft-like approach to operations. Features include automated\ncheck-out and access panels for easy maintainance.\n\n If the program moves to the next stage, engine technology will\nbecome a key consideration. This engine would have more thrust than the\nPratt & Whitney RL10A-5 engines used on the DC-X. Each motor uses liquid\nhydrogen and liquid oxygen propellants to generate up to 14,760 pounds of\nthrust\n\n Based on the engine used in Centaur upper stages, the A-5 model\nhas a thrust champer designed for sea level operation and three-to-on\nthrottling capability. It also is designed for repeat firings and rapid\nturnaround.\n\n Worden said future single-stage rockets could employ\ntri-propellant engine technology developed in the former Soviet Union.\nThe resulting engines could burn a dense hydrocarbon fuel at takeoff and\nthen switch to liquid hydrogen at higher altitudes.", "\n\n\n\n\n\nPhil> Didn't one of the early jet fighters have these? I also think\nPhil> the germans did some work on these in WWII.\n\nThe NACA came up with them before World War II. NASA is directly\ndescended from the NACA, with space added in.\n\nYou'll notice that I didn't mention sweep wings even though the\nX-5, tested at what's now Dryden, had them. We did steal that one\ndirctly from the Germans. The difference is that swept wings don't\nchange their angle of sweep, sweep wings do. Perhaps the similarity\nof names has caused some confusion? 747s have swept wings, F-111s\nhave sweep wings.\n\n\nPhil> A lot of this was also done by the military...\n\nAfter NASA aerodynamicists proposed them and NASA test teams\ndemonstrated them. Richard Whitcomb and R.T. Jones, at Langley\nResearch Center, were giants in the field.\n\nDryden was involved in the flight testing of winglets and area\nruling (in the 70s and 50s, respectively). It's true that we\nused military aircraft as the testbeds (KC-135 and YF-102) but\nthat had more to do with availability and need than with military\ninvolvement. The YF-102 was completely ours and the KC-135 was\nbailed to us. The Air Force, of course, was interested in our\nresults and supportive of our efforts.\n\nDryden flew the first digital fly by wire aircraft in the 70s. No\nmechnaical or analog backup, to show you how confident we were.\nGeneral Dynamics decided to make the F-16 flyby-wire when they saw how\nsuccessful we were. (Mind you, the Avro Arrow and the X-15 were both\nfly-by-wire aircraft much earlier, but analog.)\n\nPhil> Egad! I'm disagreeing with Mary Shafer! \n\nThe NASA habit of acquiring second-hand military aircraft and using\nthem for testbeds can make things kind of confusing. On the other\nhand, all those second-hand Navy planes give our test pilots a chance\nto fold the wings--something most pilots at Edwards Air Force Base\ncan't do.\n\n", "I just got out of the Army. Go signal corps or Intelligence; \nphotointelligence interpretation. If you go ADA you might get to play with \nrockets but space will look pretty far away dug in the mud next to a grunt \nprotecting the foward troops from low flying objects. Good Luck \n ", "\n\nIn pure speculation, I would guess cautions based on hazardous\npre-launch ops would qualify. Something like \"Caution: SRBs\nhave just been armed.\" ", "\nAllen, sometimes I think you're OK. And sometimes you tend to rashly leap into\nmaking statement without thinking them out. \n\nWanna guess which today?\n\nYou'd need to launch HLVs to send up large amounts of stuff. Do you know \nof a private Titan pad? \n\n", "\n\nWould the sub-orbital version be suitable as-is (or \"as-will-be\") for use\nas a reuseable sounding rocket?\n\n\n\nThank Ghod! I had thought that Spacelifter would definitely be the\nbastard Son of NLS.\n\n\n(And just as a reminder:)", "\n\nThis definitely had nothing to do with the entry of the government into\nthe support of science; some of it is relevant in technology. There\nwas little involvement of federal funds, or except through support of\nstate universities, of state funds, for scientific research before WWII.\nThe US research position had been growing steadily, and the funding was\nmainly from university and private foundation funds. There were not that\nmany research universities, but they all provided their researchers with\nlow teaching loads, laboratories, assistants, and equipment, and funds for\ntravel to scientific meetings. Not that much, but it was provided, and a\nuniversity wishing to get a scholar had to consider research funding as well\nas salary.\n\nDuring WWII, the military and the defense departments found that pure\nscientists could do quite well with their problems, even though they \nwere not exactly in the areas of the scientists' expertise. This is\nprobably because of the \"research mind\" approach, which is not to try\nto find a solution, but to understand the problem and see if a solution\nemerges. This works in stages, and as research scientists were used to\ndiscussion about their problems, the job got done.\n\nThe military realized the importance of maintaining scientists for the\nfuture, and started funding pure research after WWII. But Congress was\nunwilling to have military funds diverted into this investment into the\nfuture supply of scientists, and set up other organizations, such as \nNSF, to do the job. It also set up an elaborate procedure to supposedly\nkeep politics out. Also, the government did a job on private foundations,\nmaking it more difficult for them to act to support research.\n\nThe worst part of the federal involvement is that in those areas in which\nthe government supports research the university will not provide funding,\nand in fact expects its scholars to bring in net government money. Suppose,\nas has been the case, I have a project which could use the assistance of\na graduate student for a few months. What do you think happens if I ask\nfor one? The answer I will get is, \"Get the money from NSF.\" Now the\nmoney at the university level is a few thousand, but at the NSF level it\ncomes to about 20 thousand, and is likely to keep a faculty member from\ngetting supported. So the government is, in effect, deciding which projects\nget supported, and how much. \n\nAlso, the government decided that the \"wealth\" should be spread. So instead\nof having a moderate number of universities which were primarily research\ninstitutions, the idea that more schools should get into the act came into\nbeing. And instead of evaluating scholars, they had to go to evaluating\nreseach proposals. As a researcher, I can tell you that any research proposal\nhas to be mainly wishful thinking, or as now happens, the investigator conceals\nalready done work to release it as the results of the research. What I am\nproposing today I may solve before the funding is granted, I may find \nimpossible, or I may find that it is too difficult. In addition, tomorrow\nI may get unexpected research results. Possibly I may bet a bright idea\nwhich solves yesterday's too difficult problem, or a whole new approach to\nsomething I had not considered can develop. This is the nature of the beast, \nand except for really vague statements, if something can be predicted, it\nis not major research, but development or routine activity not requiring \nmore than minimal attention of a good researcher. \n\nI believe that at this time less quality research is being done than would\nhave happened if the government had never gotten into it, and the government\nis trying to divert researchers from thinkers to plodders.", "\n[re McElwaine]\n\n\nI just heard this week that he has started on COMPUSERVE flying models\nforum now. Sigh.\n-- ", "\nIt's a moot point: Step out of your door go _anywhere_ (except possibly\nyour mailbox). You will be \"subject to some ad agency's 'poor taste'\"\n \n\nWhile I'm sure Sagan considers it sacrilegious, that wouldn't be\nbecause of his doubtfull credibility as an astronomer. Modern, \nground-based, visible light astronomy (what these proposed\norbiting billboards would upset) is already a dying field: The\nopacity and distortions caused by the atmosphere itself have\ndriven most of the field to use radio, far infrared or space-based\ntelescopes. In any case, a bright point of light passing through\nthe field doesn't ruin observations. If that were the case, the\nthousands of existing satellites would have already done so (satelliets\nmight not seem so bright to the eyes, but as far as astronomy is concerned,\nthey are extremely bright.)", "\nI hate to belabor the obvious once again, but if there had been an Orbiter\nemergency in the early stages of the original HST deployment mission, they\nwould have HAD to land with HST in the bay. \n\nIndeed they were worried about that. One concern was the possibility that\nthey would lose a motor or something on the way up, and make orbit but one\nthat was too low to give HST a useful lifetime against atmospheric drag. \nI believe the decision was to deploy HST even if the projected lifetime was\nas short as six months. In fact we got an excellent orbit, on the upper\nenvelope of what the Shuttle can do.\n\nI have never heard of any serious consideration that HST might be brought \ndown for refurbishment. You would have the horrendous cost of transporting,\ncleaning, re-testing, and re-certifying all the hardware on the ground, in\naddition to the lost observing time and the cost of a second deployment \nmission with the risks that we might not get such a good orbit the second \ntime. And, you would probably STILL need a (third) servicing mission in a \nfew years as gyros and other components wear out. Better to have two \nservicing missions in space (which could well happen) than to bring HST down \nand take it up again.", "on Date: 01 Apr 93 18:03:12 GMT, Ralph Buttigieg \n/Why can't the government just be a tennant? Private commercial concerns\n/could just build a space station system and charge rent to the government\n/financed researchers wanting to use it.\n\nI believe that this was the thought behind the Industrial Space Facility. I\ndon't remember all the details, but I think Space Services (?) wanted NASA to \nsign an anchor tenancy deal in order to help secure some venture capital but \nNASA didn't like the deal. (I'm sure I'll hear about it if I'm wrong!)", "\n\n\nWell pat for once I agree with you and I like your first idea that you had.\nIT probably is the gamma ray signature of the warp transitions of interstellar\nspacecraft! :)\n\nWell it makes as much sense as some things. I was at the first Gamma Ray\nBurst conference here at UAH and had great fun watching the discomfiture\nof many of the Gamma Ray scientists. Much scruitiny was given to the\ndata reductions. I remember one person in particular who passionately declared\nthat the data was completely wrong as there were no explanation for the\nphenomena of the smooth sky distribution. (heck it even shoots down the\nwarp transition theory :(. The next conference is soon and I will endeavour\nto keep in touch with this fun subject.", "(sci.space readers can skip the first paragraph)\n\n Yesterday, in response to Henry Spencer's question about the \ntemperature of a blackbody in interstellar space, I said \"Dust grains\nacts as blackbodies, and they're at 40-150 K.\" Well, I was dead\nwrong. Our local interstellar dust expert, Bruce Draine, has\ninformed me that dust grains _aren't_ good radiators in the far IR,\nwhich is why they are so warm; actually, the ambient radiation field\nfrom distant stars can bring a true blackbody to only 3 or 4 Kelvin.\nSorry, Henry, and anyone else I misled. Obviously, time for me to\ntake another ISM class :-(\n\n In other news, Alan Stern of the Southwest Research Institute gave\na talk on the Pluto-Charon binary system yesterday. He gave a brief\noverview of the currently-accepted system parameters (volume ratio of\nabout 8:1, mass ratio about 15:1 or so, plus lots more...) and then\ngave his thoughts on the formation of Pluto-Charon. His idea is \nthat there were lots and lots of small planetesimals in the outer\nsolar system, with masses distributed as a power law of some kind;\nover time, the planetesimals accreted into larger bodies. Most got\nscattered out of the solar system by close encounters with Jupiter\nand Saturn, but many accreted into the gas giants, especially\nUranus and Neptune. A large planetesimal was captured by Neptune -\nwe call it Triton [captured how? Perhaps by a collision with a smaller,\nalready-existing Neptunian moon, perhaps by a very close passage through\nNeptune's atmosphere - mondo aerobraking!].\n\n He notes that the two recently discovered \"Kuiper Belt\" objects,\n1992 QB1 and 1993 FW, plus Chiron and Pholus, are all about the same \nmass, and he identifies this group as one-accretion-down from the\nlarger bodies of Triton and Pluto/Charon. Pluto/Charon, he thinks,\nformed when an impacting body hit proto-Pluto, knocking some material\ninto a ring around Pluto which later accreted in Charon; similar to\nideas about the formation of Earth's moon. There is good evidence\nfrom spectra that the surfaces of Pluto and Charon are very different\n(Pluto has methane frost, Charon doesn't), which can be used as evidence\nfor the impact theory.\n\n He believes that there may be around 1000 Pluto-to-Chiron-sized objects\nremaining in a relatively stable dynamical zone just outside Neptune's \norbit, beyond 35 AU or so. 1992 QB1 and 1993 FW are the first members\nof this population to be found, in his model. Note that such bodies\nwill be very dark, since if their surfaces are covered with methane \nfrost, it will have photolyzed into very dark, long-chain hydrocarbons\nby now. The reason that Pluto has such a high albedo (around 0.5, I think)\nis that its surface warms up JUST enough around perihelion to sublimate,\nand when the atmosphere freezes out again, thirty years later, it forms\nbright, new frost. So any bodies much farther away than 30 AU are going\nto be very hard to see.\n\n I hope I haven't made any errors in the transcription; if you see\na howling mistake, it's undoubtedly mine, not his.\n\n By the way, he's one of the top guns behind the Pluto Fast Flyby\nmission (I think), and said that the current plans are to use a\nTitan 4 to send the probe on \"just about a rectilinear trajectory\"\nto Pluto (we were speaking loosely at the time...). He'd like\nto use a Proton, which gives a slightly smaller velocity but costs\nMUCH less. His figures: $500 Million for 2 Titan 4 launches (there\nwill be two separate probes, launched separately), or $120 Million\nfor 2 Proton launches. He told a story about how the Soviets originally\noffered to sell Proton launches for $30 Million each, but were forced\nto increase their prices in the US in order to be allowed in the\nmarketplace.\n\n I'm just telling you what he said.\n\n Michael\n", "\n\n\n\nI can't speak to sheer mass, but part of the problem is that HST\nwasn't built to ever be brought back down. It's not built for those\nkinds of 'jolt' forces and there is no support cradle for it (which is\nadditional weight that would be required.\n\n-- \n\"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live\n in the real world.\" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden", "\nWhen I first saw this, I thought for a second that it was a headline from\nThe Star about the pliers found in the SRB recently.\n\nY'know, sometimes they have wire-cutters built in :-)\n\n-Tommy Mac\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTom McWilliams 517-355-2178 wk \\\\ As the radius of vision increases,\n18084tm@ibm.cl.msu.edu 336-9591 hm \\\\ the circumference of mystery grows.", "Having read in the past about the fail-safe mechanisms on spacecraft, I had\nassumed that the Command Loss Timer had that sort of function. However I\nalways find disturbing the oxymoron of a \"NO-OP\" command that does something.\nIf the command changes the behavior or status of the spacecraft it is not\na \"NO-OP\" command.\n\nOf course this terminology comes from a Jet Propulsion Laboratory which has\nnothing to do with jet propulsion.\n\n-- ", "What would all of you out there in net land think of the big 6 (Martin\nMariatta, Boeing, Mcdonell Douglas, General Dynamics, Lockheed, Rockwell)\ngetting together, and forming a consortium to study exactly what the market\nprice pints are for building reusable launch vehicles, and spending say\n$3million to do that. Recognizing that most of the military requirements\nfor launch vehicles are pulled out of a hat somewhere (say, has the shuttle \never really used that 1200mi crossrange capability? You get the idea, figure\nout how many, how often, where to, etc...)\n\nThen taking this data, and forming a sematech type company (bad example, I\nknow... but at least its an example...) To develop between 3 and 5 craft\ndesigns. Then to take all of those designs, and figure out EXACTLY what\nthe technologies are, and demonstrate those technologies, in order to \neliminate designs that can't be built today. And lets say that this\nportion again funded by the GOV cost about $20 million.\n\nAnd from here all of these companies went their separate ways, with the\nintention of taking all of the market data and the design data to wall\nstreet, and saying \"I want to build this vehicle, and here are the numbers\nthat show %20 ROI, fund me...)\n\n\nNow many of you think that this is a joke, but I have it on good authority that\njust this project is shaping up in the background. It seems that the aerospace\ncompanies have learned that everyone yelling similar but different things\nends up in many programs that do nothing much and get canceled (NASP, NLS,\nALS, DCY?, etc...) They need to work more in the japaneese, and european\nspirit of initial cooperation. They have also learned that design requirements\nthat are phony (I.E. some generals idea of what a space vehicle ought to be)\nends up getting chopped up in congress, because it is not a REAL requirement.\n\nAny feedback?", "At one time there was speculation that the first spacewalk \n(Alexei Leonov ?) was a staged fake.\n\nHas any evidence to support or contradict this claim emerged ?\n\nWas this claim perhaps another fevered Cold War hallucination ?\n", "\nI don't think this will work. Still the same in space\nintegration problems, small modules, especially the Bus-1 modules.\nthe MOL would be bigger. \n\nAlso, budget problems may end up stalling developemnt. \nA small undersized station wont have the science community support.\n\n\nProgram effeciencies may cut costs, but the basic problems\nwith freedom remain. in space integration, too many flights\ntoo build. not enough science retrurn. \n\n\nEssentialy $5 billion to build MIR.\n\nI think had NASA locked onto this design, back in 1984, with\nscarring to support a TRUSS for real expandability, we'd be looking\nat a flying space station.\n\nThis looks the most realistic, to me, IMHO, but, i dont know if\nthere is enough will power to toss the CDR'd existing hardware\nand then take a 1/3rd power cut and do it this way.\n\nthe core launch station has a lot of positive ideas. You could stick\nin more hatches for experimental concept modules. Like the ET\nderived workshops. Or inflatable modules.\n\npat\n\n\nSad but true.\n\nepitaph. Killed by mis-management.", "The difficulties of a high Isp OTV include:\nLong transfer times (radiation damage from VanAllen belts for both\n the spacecraft and OTV\nArcjets or Xenon thrusters require huge amounts of power so you have\nto have either nuclear power source (messy, dangerous and source of\nradiation damage) or BIG solar arrays (sensitive to radiation, or heavy)\nthat make attitude control and docking a big pain.\n\nIf you go solar, you have to replace the arrays every trip, with\ncurrent technology. Nuclear power sources are strongly restricted\nby international treaty.\n\nRefueling (even for very high Isp like xenon) is still required and]\nturn out to be a pain.\n\nYou either have to develop autonomous rendezvous or long range teleoperation\nto do docking or ( and refueling) .\n\nYou still can't do much plane change because the deltaV required is so high!\n\nThe Air Force continues to look at doing things this way though. I suppose\nthey are biding their time till the technology becomes available and\nthe problems get solved. Not impossible in principle, but hard to\ndo and marginally cheaper than one shot rockets, at least today.\n\nJust a few random thoughts on high Isp OTV's. I designed one once...", "\n\nYou should have heard Prof. McNally , from my days as an astronomy\nundergraduate, denouncing photon pollution. It was easy to imagine him\ntaking practical steps to modify the sodium lamps on the street\noutside Mill Hill observatory with a 12-gauge shotgun :-)\n\nHowever, seriously, it is possible to limit the effects of\nstreetlights, by adding a reflector, so that the light only\nilluminates the ground, which is after all where you need it. As a\nbonus, the power consumption required for a given illumination level\nis reduced. Strangely enough, astronomers often seek to lobby elected\nlocal authorities to use such lighting systems, with considerable\nsuccess in the desert areas around the major US observatories. At\nleast, thats what McNally told us, all those years ago.\n( British local authorities couldn`t care less, as far as I can see )\n\nI suppose that the \"right\" to dark skies is no more than an aspiration,\nbut it is a worthwhile one. Illuminated orbital billboards seem especially\nyukky, and are presumably in the area of international law, if any, although\nI do find the idea of a right to bear anti-satellite weapons intriguing.", "\n\"...a la Chrysler\"?? Okay kids, to the nearest thousand, how many\ndollars did the government spend to \"bail out\" Chrysler? More than zero\nyou say? \n\nBzzzzzzzzzt. Wrong answer.", "\nThe problem is, you can't raise adequate amounts of money that way.\nThe Viking Fund tried. They did succeed, in a way, but only because\nof the political impact of their fundraising. The actual amount of\nmoney they raised was fairly inconsequential; it would not have kept\nthe Viking lander going by itself.", "I've a curiousity --\n\n Whenever a person is put on the 15-day, 30-day or 60-day, \n the person is on the list longer than the specificed time\n\n I've seen a person on the 15-day for maybe 4 months last year, I don't\n remember what...\n\n I just need a little clarification on the disabled list specifications.\n\n- Scotyy\n", "\n\nKerry-- I'm guessing a little at this, because it's been a few years \nsince I saw the info, but you will probably want to look at Air Defense \nArtillery as a specialty, or possibly Signals. The kind of thing you're \nlooking for is SDI-type assignments, but it'll be pretty prosaic stuff.\nThings like hard-kill ATBM missiles, some of the COBRA rigs -- that kind \nof thing. \n\nHope that gives you some ideas on where to look, though.\n", "\nSupernovae put out 10^53 or 10^54 (i forget which, but it's only an\norder of magnitude...). Not in gamma rays, though. You'd hafta get\nall of that into gammas if they were at 9 Mpc, but if a decent fraction\nof the SN output was in gammas it could reasonably be extragalactic \n(but closer than 9 Mpc). I dunno SN theory so well, but I can't think\nof how to get many gammas out. Maybe I should look it up.\n\nBig radio galaxies can put out 10^46 erg/s *continually*. That's just\nin the radio... there are a lot of gammas around them, too, but \"bursts\"?\nNah.\n\nNeither of these should be taken as explanations... just trying to show\nthat those energies *are* produced by things we know about.\n", "The most current orbital elements from the NORAD two-line element sets are\ncarried on the Celestial BBS, (513) 427-0674, and are updated daily (when\npossible). Documentation and tracking software are also available on this\nsystem. As a service to the satellite user community, the most current\nelements for the current shuttle mission are provided below. The Celestial\nBBS may be accessed 24 hours/day at 300, 1200, 2400, 4800, or 9600 bps using\n8 data bits, 1 stop bit, no parity.\n\nElement sets (also updated daily), shuttle elements, and some documentation\nand software are also available via anonymous ftp from archive.afit.af.mil\n(129.92.1.66) in the directory pub/space.\n\nSTS 56 \n1 22621U 93 23 A 93105.58333333 .00090711 00000-0 25599-3 0 249\n2 22621 57.0029 144.8669 0004136 304.2989 134.3206 15.92851555 1179\n1993 023B \n1 22623U 93 23 B 93103.37312705 .00041032 00000-0 11888-3 0 86\n2 22623 57.0000 155.1150 0004422 293.4650 66.5967 15.92653917 803", "\nThis claim was made when someone spotted training film footage spliced into\nthe footage of the actual spacewalk.", "\nPat> In article \n\n\nPat> Gee, I thought the X-15 was Cable controlled. Didn't one of them\nPat> have a total electrical failure in flight? Was there machanical\nPat> backup systems?\n\nAll reaction-controlled aircraft are fly-by-wire, at least the RCS part\nis. On the X-15 the aerodynamic control surfaces (elevator, rudder, etc)\nwere conventionally controlled (pushrods and cables) but the RCS jets\nwere fly-by-wire.\n\n\nPat> What do you mean? Overstress the wings, and they fail at teh\nPat> joints?\n\nNavy aircraft have folding or sweeping wings, in order to save space\non the hangar deck. The F-14 wings sweep, all the rest fold the\nwingtips up at a joint.\n\nAir Force planes don't have folding wings, since the Air Force has\nlots of room.\n", "Ethnocentric USian that I am, I've assumed that we and the\nxUSSR were the only countries with significant capabilities to track\nnon-cooperative objects in low Earth orbit. Grazing in a couple of \ndatabases recently, I found that Japan has some optical capabilities\nalong this line, and also uses a radar designed for other purposes\nfor orbital debris surveys (it isn't clear whether the radar can \ndetermine orbital elements for the objects it detects). Abstracts of \nthe articles are appended. \n\n\n This leads to the more general question: do yet other people than \nthe US, Russia, and Japan do space surveillance, and if so, how and \nwhy? \n\nAllen Thomson SAIC McLean, VA, USA\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\n ABSTRACTS\n\nOptical tracking of the experimental geodetic satellite (EGS)\nTAKABE, MASAO; ITABE, TOSHIKAZU; ARUGA, TADASHI\nRadio Research Laboratory, Review (ISSN 0033-801X), vol. 34,\nMarch 1988, p. 23-34. In Japanese, with abstract in English.\n This paper reports the optical tracking results of EGS\n(experimental geodetic satellite) which was launched on August 13,\n1986, by NASDA. The EGS optical tracking experiment process and an\noutline of the Radio Research Laboratory (RRL) optical ground <----\nstation are discussed. A star tracking technique for optical\nequipment calibration and satellite tracking technique for orbit\nprediction improvement are also described. The accuracy of EGS\ntracking data obtained by RRL at the request of NASDA is also\ndiscussed. In addition, it is briefly demonstrated that the\nposition of the Japanese amateur satellite (JAS-1) which was\nlaunched with the EGS, was accurately determined by means of a <----\nsatellite tracking video. It is clear from this experiment that <----\noptical observation data (i.e., satellite direction data) are very <----\nuseful for satellite orbit determination during initial launch <----\nstages. Furthermore, the results confirm the effectivenes of these <----\ntwo satellite optical tracking techniques. <----\n\n\nMU radar measurements of orbital debris\nSATO, TORU; KAYAMA, HIDETOSHI; FURUSAWA, AKIRA; KIMURA, IWANE\n(Kyoto University, Japan)\nAIAA, NASA, and DOD, Orbital Debris Conference: Technical Issues and \nFuture Directions, Baltimore, MD, Apr. 16-19, 1990. 10 p. \nRPN: AIAA PAPER 90-1343\n Distributions of orbital debris versus height and scattering cross \nsection are determined from a series of observations made with a high-\npower VHF Doppler radar (MU radar) of Japan. An automated data \nprocessing algorithm has been developed to discriminate echoes of \norbiting objects from those of undesired signals such as meteor trail \nechoes or lightning atmospherics. Although the results are preliminary, \nthey showed good agreement with those from NORAD tracking radar <----\nobservations using a much higher frequency. It is found that the <----\ncollision frequency of a Space Station of 1 km x 1 km size at an \naltitude of 500 km with orbiting debris is expected to be as high as \nonce per two years. \n\n\nMonitoring of the MU radar antenna pattern by Satellite Ohzora (EXOS-C)\nSATO, T.; INOOKA, Y.; FUKAO, S. (Kyoto Univ., Japan); KATO, S.\nKyoto Univ., Uji (Japan). Radio Atmospheric Science Center.\nIn International Council of Scientific Unions, Middle Atmosphere Program.\nHandbook for MAP, Vol. 20 5 p\nPublication Date: Jun. 1986\n As the first attempt among MST (mesosphere stratosphere \ntroposphere) type radars, the MU (middle and upper atmosphere) radar \nfeatures an active phased array system. Unlike the conventional large \nVHF radars, in which output power of a large vacuum tube is distributed \nto individual antenna elements, each of 475 solid state power amplifier \nfeeds each antenna element. This system configuration enables very fast \nbeam steering as well as various flexible operations by dividing the \nantenna into independent subarrays, because phase shift and signal \ndivision/combination are performed at a low signal level using \nelectronic devices under control of a computer network. The antenna \nbeam can be switched within 10 microsec to any direction within the \nzenith angle of 30 deg. Since a precise phase alignment of each element \nis crucial to realize the excellent performance of this system, careful \ncalibration of the output phase of each power amplifier and antenna \nelement was carried out. Among various aircraft which may be used for \nthis purpose artificial satellites have an advantage of being able to \nmake a long term monitoring with the same system. An antenna pattern \nmonitoring system for the MU radar was developed using the scientific \nsatellite OHZORA (EXOS-C). A receiver named MUM (MU radar antenna \nMonitor) on board the satellite measures a CW signal of 100 to 400 \nwatts transmitted from the MU radar. The principle of the measurement \nand results are discussed.\n", "Joint Press release ESA/UN No 18-93\nParis, 19 April 1993\n\nUN/ESA joint training course on satellite applications\nto be held in Italy, 19-30 April\n\nThe United Nations and the European Space Agency (ESA)\nare jointly organising a training course on the applications of\nsatellite data gathered by the European Remote Sensing\nSatellite (ERS-1), to be held in Frascati, Italy, from 19 to 30\nApril. The training course will discuss the applications of\nsatellite data concerning natural resources, renewable energy\nand the environment.\n\nThe training course, organised for the benefit of francophone\nAfrican experts, will be hosted by ESRIN, the European Space\nAgency's establishment in Frascati, which is responsible for\ncoordination with the users of data from ESA's remote sensing\nsatellite. Twenty-four experts in the field of remote sensing,\nselected from 19 francophone countries from northern, western\nand central Africa, and three regional African centres, will\nattend the two-week session. The course will focus on remote\nsensing techniques and data applications, particularly ERS-1\ndata.\n\nThe ERS-1 satellite, developed by ESA and launched in 1991\nwith the European Ariane launcher, carries an advanced radar\ninstrument and is the first in a series of radar remote sensing\nmissions that will ensure availability of data beyond the year\n2000. The aim of the training course is to increase the\npotential of experts using the practical applications of radar\nremote sensing systems to natural resources, renewable energy\nand the environment, with particular emphasis on applications\nto geology and mineral prospecting, oceanography and near-\ncoastal areas, agriculture, forestry and meteorology.\n\nThe education and practical training programme was\ndeveloped jointly by the United Nations and ESA. The\nfacilities and the technical support, as well as lecturers and\ninformation documents for the training course, will be\nprovided by the Agency. Lecturers at the training course will\ninclude high-level experts from other European and African\norganisations active in remote sensing applications. Funds for\nthe training course are being provided by the United Nations\n\n\n\nTrust Fund for New and Renewable Sources of Energy; the\nprimary contributor to that Fund is the Government of Italy.", "\n\n\n\nDoing this in anything like reasonable time would require more\npropulsion capability than we can manage. You would have to boost to\nPluto and then slow back down. You could do something like a Hohman\norbit, but I think that would take ridiculous amounts of time (my\nRubber Bible is at home).\n\n-- \n\"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live\n in the real world.\" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden", "Has anyone heard of or Played Buzz Aldrin's Race into Space?\n\nDoes anyone know when it is expected to be released...?", "I was reading Popular Science this morning and was surprised by an ad in\nthe back. I know that a lot of the ads in the back of PS are fringe\nscience or questionablely legal, but this one really grabbed my attention.\nIt was from a company name \"Personal Missle, Inc.\" or something like that.\n\nAnyhow, the ad stated that they'd sell rockets that were up to 20' in length\nand engines of sizes \"F\" to \"M\". They also said that some rockets will\nreach 50,000 feet.\n\nNow, aside from the obvious dangers to any amateur rocketeer using one\nof these beasts, isn't this illegal? I can't imagine the FAA allowing\npeople to shoot rockets up through the flight levels of passenger planes.\nNot to even mention the problem of locating a rocket when it comes down.\n\nAnd no, I'm not going to even think of buying one. I'm not that crazy.\n\n\n-Paul \"mine'll do 50,000 feet and carries 50 pounds of dynamite\" Dokas", "\nI disagree. It think the average joe is interested/curious about spaceflight\nbut sees it as an elitist activity. Not one which he is ever going to\nparticipate in.\n\n\nWhy is the general public going to be interested in the technical details\nof long term space habitation? I like the idea of the study, but it should\nbe released to other scientists and engineers who will be able to use it.\nIf you want a general public document, you'll need a more general publication.\n\n\nAs one working on Controlled Ecological Life Support Systems, engineering\nthe microworld isn't the problem. The problem is understanding the basic\nchemical, biological and medical factors to be able to engineer them\nefficiently. For example, the only way we know how to produce food is from\nplants and animals. Food synthesis is not very far advanced. So we have\nto orbit a farm. Well that's obviously not very efficient, so we use \ntechnology to reduce the mass and grow plants hydroponically instead of \nusing dirt. This is where the engineering comes in. But new technologies\nbring new basic questions that we don't have the answers to. Like, in \ndirt we can grow tomatoes and lettuce right beside each other, but in \nhydroponics it turns out that you can't do that. The lettuce growth is \nstunted when it's grown in the same hydroponic solution as tomatoes. So \nnow you have to consider what other plants are going to have similar\ninteractions. This means some basic applied scientific research. And that's\nwhat needs to be done with all technologies that have been developed so far.\nWe also need to find out how they interact together. That's where we are now.\n\n\nFirst you need to do the literature search. There is a lot of information\nout there. Maybe we should just pick a specific area of long term habitation.\nThis could be useful, especially if we make it available on the net. Then\nwe can look at methods of analyzing the technologies.\n\n\nUnless there is an unbelievable outpouring of interest on this on the net,\nI think we should develop a detailed data base of the literature search \nfirst. Then if we accomplish that we can go on to real analysis. The data\nbase itself could be useful for future engineers.\n\nThat's my response Ken, what do you think?", "\nIn fact, you probably want to avoid US Government anything for such a\nproject. The pricetag is invariably too high, either in money or in\nhassles.\n\nThe important thing to realize here is that the big cost of getting to\nthe Moon is getting into low Earth orbit. Everything else is practically\ndown in the noise. The only part of getting to the Moon that poses any\nnew problems, beyond what you face in low orbit, is the last 10km --\nthe actual landing -- and that is not immensely difficult. Of course,\nyou *can* spend sagadollars (saga- is the metric prefix for beelyuns\nand beelyuns) on things other than the launches, but you don't have to.\n\nThe major component of any realistic plan to go to the Moon cheaply (for\nmore than a brief visit, at least) is low-cost transport to Earth orbit.\nFor what it costs to launch one Shuttle or two Titan IVs, you can develop\na new launch system that will be considerably cheaper. (Delta Clipper\nmight be a bit more expensive than this, perhaps, but there are less\nambitious ways of bringing costs down quite a bit.) Any plan for doing\nsustained lunar exploration using existing launch systems is wasting\nmoney in a big way.\n\nGiven this, questions like whose launch facilities you use are *not* a\nminor detail; they are very important to the cost of the launches, which\ndominates the cost of the project.", "\n\n\n\nHeck, some of his ships were loaners. One was owned by a Basque...\n(you know, one of those groups that probably crossed the Atlantic\n_before_ Columbus came along).\n", "\nThe current mining regulations and fees were set in the 1800's!\nWhat the so-called \"eco-freaks\" want to do is to simply bring those\nfees in line with current economic reality. Currently, mining companies\ncan get access to minerals on public lands for ridiculously low prices --\nsomething like $50! The mining lobby has for decades managed to block\nany reform of these outdated fees. In fact, the latest attempt to reform\nthem was again blocked -- President Clinton \"compromised\" by taking the\nmining fee reforms out of his '94 budget, and plans to draft separate\nlegislation to fight that battle.\nIf you want to discuss this further, I suggest you take this to talk.environment.", "\nIf you are really interested in these orbits and how they are obtained\nyou should try and find the following paper:\n\n Hiroshi Yamakawa, Jun'ichiro Kawaguchi, Nobuaki Ishii, \n and Hiroki Matsuo, \"A Numerical Study of Gravitational Capture\n Orbit in the Earth-Moon System,\" AAS-92-186, AAS/AIAA Spaceflight\n Mechanics Meeting, Colorado Springs, Colorado, 1992.\n\nThe references included in this paper are quite interesting also and \ninclude several that are specific to the HITEN mission itself. ", "If you brighten up the dark part of CV043015.GIF with your viewer you \nwill see two other objects near the upper left part of the moon.\nOne is actually between the weather satellite and the moon.", "\nBeing what? Oh, _weird_. OK, I'm warned!\n\n\nKeep watch for what?\n\n\nOh, the several tens (or hundreds) of millions of dollars it would cost\nto \"record things\" there. And I'd prefer a manned mission, anyway.\n\n\nWe've already got a pretty good platform to \"scan\" the solar\nsystem, as well as SETI and looking at the galaxy without having\nmuch of the solar system to worry about..\nCare to guess where it is?\n\nShag\n\n-- ", "I know that alot of how people think and act in a long distance space project\nwould be much like old tiem explorers, sailors, hunters and such who spent alot\nof time alone, isolated, and alone or in minimal surroundings and sopcial\ncontacts.. Such as the old arctic and antarctic expeditions and such..\n\nI vote for a later on sci.space.medicine or similar newsgroup fro the\ndiscussion of long term missions into space and there affects on humans and\nsuch..", "Original to: szabo@techbook.com\nG'day szabo@techbook.com\n\n29 Mar 93 07:28, szabo@techbook.com wrote to All:\n\n sc> szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo), via Kralizec 3:713/602\n\n sc> Here are some longer-term markets to consider:\n\nHere are some more:\n\n* Terrestrial illumination from orbiting mirrors.\n\n* World enviroment and disaster monitering system. (the Japanese have\nalready developed a plan for this, called WEDOS) Although this may be more\nof a \"public good\".\n\n* Space tourism.\n\n* Energy relay satellites\n\nta\n\nRalph", "I am posting this for a friend without internet access. Please inquire\nto the phone number and address listed.\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n\"Space: Teaching's Newest Frontier\"\nSponsored by the Planetary Studies Foundation\n\nThe Planetary Studies Foundation is sponsoring a one week class for\nteachers called \"Space: Teaching's Newest Frontier.\" The class will be\nheld at the Sheraton Suites in Elk Grove, Illinois from June 14 through\nJune 18. Participants who complete the program can earn two semester\nhours of graduate credit from Aurora College. Please note that while the\nclass is intended for teachers, it is not restricted to teachers.\n\nThe class, which is being cosponsored by the United States Space\nFoundation, will teach how to use space exploration as a teaching tool\nto get students excited about learning and interested in science.\n\nClassroom topics to be covered by the class include:\n > Living in Space\n > The Space Shuttle\n > The Space Station\n > NASA Spinoffs that Benefit Society\n > Principles of Astrodynamics/Aeronautics\n > The Solar System\n\nThere will also be simulated Zero-G training in an underwater space\nstation simulation, model rocket launches, observing sessions at the\nHarper College Observatory, and field trips to the Adler Planetarium and\nthe Museum of Science and Industry.\n\nFeatured speakers include Jerry Brown of the Colorado based United\nStates Space Foundation and Debbie Brown of the NASA Lewis Research\nCenter in Cleveland, Ohio. Additional instructors will be provided by\nthe Planetary Studies Foundation.\n\nThe social highlight of the class will be a dinner banquet featuring\nSpace Shuttle Payload Specialist Byron Lichtenberg, currently President\nof Payload Systems, Inc. Lichtenberg was a member of the crew of STS-9\nwhich flew in November 1983. The banquet is scheduled for Thursday, June\n17.\n\nThe registration fee includes transportation for field trips, materials,\ncontinental breakfasts, lunches, and the special dinner banquet. Guest\ntickets for the dinner banquet are also available. There is an\nadditional charge to receive the two hours of graduate credit. For any\nadditional information about the class, contact the Science Learning\nCenter at (708) 359-7913.\n\nOr write to:\nPlanetary Studies Foundation\n1520 W. Algonquin Rd.\nPalatine, IL 60067\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------", "Forwarded from Neal Ausman, Galileo Mission Director\n\n GALILEO\n MISSION DIRECTOR STATUS REPORT\n POST-LAUNCH\n April 9 - 15, 1993\n\nSPACECRAFT\n\n1. On April 9, real-time commands were sent, as planned, to reacquire\ncelestial reference after completion of the Low Gain Antenna (LGA-2)\nswing/Dual Drive Actuator (DDA) hammer activities.\n\n2. On April 9, the EJ-1 (Earth-Jupiter #1) sequence memory load was uplinked\nto the spacecraft without incident. This sequence covers spacecraft activity\nfrom April 12, 1993 to June 14, 1993 and includes a window for the Radio Relay\nAntenna (RRA) slew test on April 28, 1993. The command loss timer was set to\n11 days as a part of this sequence memory load.\n\n3. On April 12 and 15, a NO-OP command was sent to reset the command loss\ntimer to 264 hours, its planned value during this mission phase.\n\n4. On April 12, cruise science Memory Readouts (MROs) were performed for the\nExtreme Ultraviolet Spectrometer (EUV), Dust Detector (DDS), and Magnetometer\n(MAG) instruments. Preliminary analysis indicates the data was received\nproperly.\n\n5. On April 12, an Ultra-Stable Oscillator (USO) test was performed to verify\nthe health status of the USO and to collect gravitational red shift experiment\ndata; long term trend analysis is continuing.\n\n6. On April 14, a 40bps modulation index test was performed to determine the\noptimal Signal-to-Noise Ratio (SNR) when transmitting at 40bps. Preliminary\nanalysis of the data suggests that the present pre-launch selected modulation\nindex is near the optimal level.\n\n7. On April 15, cruise science Memory Readouts (MROs) were performed for the\nExtreme Ultraviolet Spectrometer (EUV) and Magnetometer (MAG) instrument.\nPreliminary analysis indicates the data was received properly.\n\n8. On April 15, a periodic RPM (Retro-Propulsion Module) 10-Newton thruster\nflushing maintenance activity was performed; all 12 thrusters were flushed\nduring the activity. Thruster performance throughout the activity was nominal.\n\n9. The AC/DC bus imbalance measurements have not exhibited significant\nchanges (greater than 25 DN) throughout this period. The AC measurement reads\n19 DN (4.3 volts). The DC measurement reads 111 DN (12.9 volts). These\nmeasurements are consistent with the model developed by the AC/DC special\nanomaly team.\n\n10. The Spacecraft status as of April 15, 1993, is as follows:\n\n a) System Power Margin - 60 watts\n b) Spin Configuration - Dual-Spin\n c) Spin Rate/Sensor - 3.15rpm/Star Scanner\n d) Spacecraft Attitude is approximately 18 degrees\n off-sun (lagging) and 6 degrees off-earth (leading)\n e) Downlink telemetry rate/antenna- 40bps(coded)/LGA-1\n f) General Thermal Control - all temperatures within\n acceptable range\n g) RPM Tank Pressures - all within acceptable range\n h) Orbiter Science- Instruments powered on are the PWS,\n EUV, UVS, EPD, MAG, HIC, and DDS\n i) Probe/RRH - powered off, temperatures within\n acceptable range\n j) CMD Loss Timer Setting - 264 hours\n Time To Initiation - 260 hours\n\n\nGDS (Ground Data Systems):\n\n1. Galileo participated in a second DSN (Deep Space Network) acceptance test\nfor the DSN Telemetry Phase 3 Upgrade on April 13, 1993, using CTA-21\n(Compatibility Test Area 21). The purpose of this test was to verify\nthe flow of Galileo telemetry data through the new Telemetry Group Controller\n(TGC) and the Telemetry Channel Assembly (TCA). The TGC/TCA is the replacement\nfor the current Telemetry Processing Assembly (TPA). Seven different telemetry\nrates were run for this test; all ran well on both the MTS (MCCC Telemetry\nSubsystem) and the AMMOS MGDS V18.0 GIF with the exception of 10bps. The\n10bps rate had some trouble staying in lock; it appears the TGC/TCA was\nnot metering the data correctly. Further comparisons between the MGDS and MTS\ndata from this test are being conducted. MVT (Mission Verification Test) of\nthe TGC/TCA system is expected to begin May 16, 1993.\n\n\nTRAJECTORY\n\n As of noon Thursday, April 15, 1993, the Galileo Spacecraft trajectory\nstatus was as follows:\n\n\tDistance from Earth 152,606,000 km (1.02 AU)\n\tDistance from Sun 277,519,800 km (1.86 AU)\n\tHeliocentric Speed 93,400 km per hour\n\tDistance from Jupiter 543,973,900 km\n\tRound Trip Light Time 17 minutes, 4 seconds\n\n\nSPECIAL TOPIC", "\nI attended a colloquium at Goddard last fall where the head of the \noperations section of NASA was talking about what future missions\nwere going to be funded. I don't remember his name or title off hand\nand I have discarded the colloquia announcement. In any case, he was \nasked about that very matter: \"Why can't we spend a few million more\nto keep instruments that we already have in place going?\"\n\nHis responce was that there are only so many $ available to him and\nthe lead time on an instrument like a COBE, Magellan, Hubble, etc\nis 5-10 years minumum. If he spent all that could be spent on using\ncurrent instruments in the current budget enviroment he would have\nvery little to nothing for future projects. If he did that, sure\nin the short run the science would be wonderful and he would be popular,\nhowever starting a few years after he had retired he would become\none of the greatest villans ever seen in the space community for not\nfunding the early stages of the next generation of instruments. Just\nas he had benefited from his predicessor's funding choices, he owed it\nto whoever his sucessor would eventually be to keep developing new\nmissions, even at the expense of cutting off some instruments before\nthe last drop of possible science has been wrung out of them.\n\n", "From article , by tombaker@world.std.com (Tom A Baker):\n\n\nMy understanding is that the 'expected errors' are basically\nknown bugs in the warning system software - things are checked\nthat don't have the right values in yet because they aren't\nset till after launch, and suchlike. Rather than fix the code\nand possibly introduce new bugs, they just tell the crew\n'ok, if you see a warning no. 213 before liftoff, ignore it'.", "\nWell said.\n \n\nOkay, Del, so Michael was being unfair, but you are being unfair back. \nHe is taking college courses now, I presume he is studying hard, and\nhis postings reveal that he is *somewhat* hip to the technical issues\nof astronautics. Plus, he is attentively following the erudite\ndiscourse of the Big Brains who post to sci.space; is it not\ninevitable that he will get a splendid technical education from\nreading the likes of you and me? [1]\n\nLike others involved in sci.space, Mr. Adams shows symptoms of being a\nfledgling member of the technoculture, and I think he's soaking it up\nfast. I was a young guy with dreams once, and they led me to get a\ntechnical education to follow them up. Too bad I wound up in an\nassembly-line job stamping out identical neutrinos day after day...\n(-:\n\n[1] Though rumors persist that Del and I are both pseudonyms of Fred\nMcCall.", "Does anyone know ifthe STS-56 email press kit was ever released?\n\n-Tony Ryan, \"Astronomy & Space\", new International magazine, available from:\n Astronomy Ireland, P.O.Box 2888, Dublin 1, Ireland.\n6 issues (one year sub.): UK 10.00 pounds, US$20 surface (add US$8 airmail).\nACCESS/VISA/MASTERCARD accepted (give number, expiration date, name&address).", "\nat least be honest. velcro (tm) dates from the 40's. i have doubts\nabout everything listed above. just because it was developed in the\nspace age, doesn't mean it was a space spin-off. ", "\n McDonnell Douglas rolls out DC-X\n\n ...\n\n\n SSTO research remains cloudy. The SDI Organization -- which paid $60\n million for the DC-X -- can't itself afford to fund full development of a\n follow-on vehicle. To get the necessary hundreds of millions required for\n\nThis is a little peculiar way of putting it, SDIO's budget this year\nwas, what, $3-4 billion? They _could_ fund all of the DC development\nout of one years budget - of course they do have other irons in the\nfire ;-) and launcher development is not their primary purpose, but\nthe DC development could as easily be paid for by diverting that money\nas by diverting the comparable STS ops budget...\n\n- oh, and before the flames start. I applaud the SDIO for funding DC-X\ndevlopment and I hope it works, and, no, launcher development is not\nNASAs primary goal either, IMHO they are supposed to provide the\nenabling technology research for others to do launcher development,\nand secondarily operate such launchers as they require - but that's\njust me.", "\n\nFred.\n\n\tTry reading a bit. THe government does lots of multi year\ncontracts with Penalty for cancellation clauses. They just like to be\ndamn sure they know what they are doing before they sign a multi year\ncontract. THe reason they aren't cutting defense spending as much\nas they would like is the Reagan administration signed enough\nMulti year contracts, that it's now cheaper to just finish them out.\n\nLook at SSF. THis years funding is 2.2 Billion, 1.8 of which will\ncover penalty clauses, due to the re-design.", "====\nIf that were true, I'd go for it.. I have a few friends who we could pool our\nresources and do it.. Maybe make it a prize kind of liek the \"Solar Car Race\"\nin Australia..\nAnybody game for a contest!", "Here is a way to get the commericial companies into space and mineral\nexploration.\n\nBasically get the eci-freaks to make it so hard to get the minerals on earth..\nYou think this is crazy. Well in a way it is, but in a way it is reality.\n\nThere is a billin the congress to do just that.. Basically to make it so\nexpensive to mine minerals in the US, unless you can by off the inspectors or\ntax collectors.. ascially what I understand from talking to a few miner friends \nof mine, that they (the congress) propose to have a tax on the gross income of\nthe mine, versus the adjusted income, also the state governments have there\nnormal taxes. So by the time you get done, paying for materials, workers, and\nother expenses you can owe more than what you made.\nBAsically if you make a 1000.00 and spend 500. ofor expenses, you can owe\n600.00 in federal taxes.. Bascially it is driving the miners off the land.. And\nthe only peopel who benefit are the eco-freaks.. \n\nBasically to get back to my beginning statement, is space is the way to go\ncause it might just get to expensive to mine on earth because of either the\neco-freaks or the protectionist.. \nSuch fun we have in these interesting times..", "\nI haven't seen any speculation about it. But, the Salyut KB (Design Bureau) \nwas planning a new LH/LOX second stage for the Proton which would boost\npayload to LEO from about 21000 to 31500 kg. (Geostationary goes from\n2600 kg. (Gals launcher version) to 6000 kg.. This scheme was competing\nwith the Energia-M last year and I haven't heard which won, except now\nI recently read that the Central Specialized KB was working on the \nsuccessor to the Soyuz booster which must be the Energia-M. So the early\nresults are Energia-M won, but this is a guess, nothing is very clear in \nRussia. I'm sure if Salyut KB gets funds from someone they will continue \ntheir development. \n\nThe Centaur for the Altas is about 3 meters dia. and the Proton \nis 4 so that's a good fit for their existing upper stage, the Block-D\nwhich sets inside a shround just under 4 meters dia. I don't know about\nlaunch loads, etc.. but since the Centaur survives Titan launches which\nare probably worse than the Proton (those Titan SRB's probably shake things\nup pretty good) it seems feasible. EXCEPT, the Centaur is a very fragile\nthing and may require integration on the pad which is not available now.\nProtons are assembled and transported horizontially. Does anyone know \nhow much stress in the way of a payload a Centaur could support while\nbolted to a Proton horizontally and then taken down the rail road track\nand erected on the pad? \n\nThey would also need LOX and LH facilities added to the Proton pads \n(unless the new Proton second stage is actually built), and of course\nany Centaur support systems and facilities, no doubt imported from the\nUS at great cost. These systems may viloate US law so there are political\nproblems to solve in addition to the instabilities in the CIS you mention. ", "\nNot quite true. One of the instruments on Mars Observer will be searching\nfor potential fossil sites. \n", "AW&ST had a brief blurb on a Manned Lunar Exploration confernce\nMay 7th at Crystal City Virginia, under the auspices of AIAA.\n\nDoes anyone know more about this? How much, to attend????\n\nAnyone want to go?", "Any comments on the absorbtion of the Office of Exploration into the\nOffice of Space Sciences and the reassignment of Griffin to the \"Chief\nEngineer\" position? Is this just a meaningless administrative\nshuffle, or does this bode ill for SEI?\n\nIn my opinion, this seems like a Bad Thing, at least on the surface.\nGriffin seemed to be someone who was actually interested in getting\nthings done, and who was willing to look an innovative approaches to\ngetting things done faster, better, and cheaper. It's unclear to me\nwhether he will be able to do this at his new position.\n\nDoes anyone know what his new duties will be?\n--\n_______________________________________________________________________________", "\nYes it has to be very clear (like it wasn't there). And of course, cost is \nalways a factor. I am trying to get an idea of the feasability of such an \nidea. But I don't want to give too much away.", "How about transferring control to a non-profit organisation that is\nable to accept donations to keep craft operational.", "\nBetter idea for use of NASA Shuttle Astronauts and Crew is have them be found\nlost in space after a accident with a worm hole or other space/time glitch..\n\nMaybe age Jemison a few years (makeup and such) and have her as the only\nsurvivour of a failed shuttle mission that got lost.. \n\nHeh of late, they way they have been having shuttle problems in the media,\nanything can happen.. \n\nImagine a Astronaut/Crew member to find themselves in the 24th Century as the\nobject of interest of an alien civilization, maybe rescued or helped by the ST\nEnterprise... I know Vegr and such was okay, but this could be better..", "\n\nHow could this possibly be \"environmental vandalism\" when there is no\n\"environment\" to vandalize up there?\n\nSince the advertising \"is just to help defray costs\", it's certainly no\nsurprise that \"the taxpayers would bear most of the expense\". Sounds\nlike a good idea to me, since the taxpayers would bear _all_ of the\nexpense if they didn't do the advertising.\n\n\nGreat idea, they should have done it long ago.\n\n\nI can't believe that a mile-long billboard would have any significant\neffect on the overall sky brightness. Venus is visible during the day,\nbut nobody complains about that. Besides, it's in LEO, so it would only\nbe visible during twilight when the sky is already bright, and even if\nit would have some miniscule impact, it would be only for a short time\nas it goes zipping across the sky.\n\n\nNo doubt. People are always looking for something to protest about, so\nit would be no surprise.\n\n\nWell, look on the, er, bright side. Imagine the looks on the faces of\npeople in primitive tribes out in the middle of nowhere as they look up\nand see a can of Budweiser flying across the sky... :-D\n\n--", "I have 19 (2 MB worth!) uuencode'd GIF images contain charts outlining\none of the many alternative Space Station designs being considered in\nCrystal City. Mr. Mark Holderman works down the hall from me, and can\nbe reached for comment at (713) 483-1317, or via e-mail at\nmholderm@jscprofs.nasa.gov.\n\nMark proposed this design, which he calls \"Geode\" (\"rough on the\noutside, but a gem on the inside\") or the \"ET Strongback with\nintegrated hab modules and centrifuge.\" As you can see from file\ngeodeA.gif, it uses a Space Shuttle External Tank (ET) in place of much\nof the truss which is currently part of Space Station Freedom. The\nwhite track on the outside of the ET is used by the Station Remonte\nManipulator System (SRMS) and by the Reaction Control System (RCS)\npod. This allows the RCS pod to move along the track so that thrusting\ncan occur near the center of gravity (CG) of the Station as the mass\nproperties of the Station change during assembly.\n\nThe inline module design allows the Shuttle to dock more easily because\nit can approach closer to the Station's CG and at a structurally strong\npart of the Station. In the current SSF design, docking forces are\nlimited to 400 pounds, which seriously constrains the design of the\ndocking system.\n\nThe ET would have a hatch installed pre-flight, with little additional\nlaunch mass. We've always had the ability to put an ET into orbit\n(contrary to some rumors which have circulated here), but we've never\nhad a reason to do it, while we have had some good reasons not to\n(performance penalties, control, debris generation, and eventual\nde-orbit and impact footprint). Once on-orbit, we would vent the\nresidual H2. The ET insulation (SOFI) either a) erodes on-orbit from\nimpact with atomic Oxygen, or b) stays where it is, and we deploy a\nKevlar sheath around it to protect it and keep it from contaminating\nthe local space environment. Option b) has the advantage of providing\nfurther micrometeor protection. The ET is incredibly strong (remember,\nit supports the whole stack during launch), and could serve as the\nnucleus for a much more ambitious design as budget permits.\n\nThe white module at the end of ET contains a set of Control Moment\nGyros to be used for attitude control, while the RCS will be used\nfor gyro desaturation. The module also contains a de-orbit system\nwhich can be used at the end of the Station's life to perform a\ncontrolled de-orbit (so we don't kill any more kangaroos, like we\ndid with Skylab).\n\nThe centrifuge, which has the same volume as a hab module, could be\nused for long-term studies of the effects of lunar or martian gravity\non humans. The centrifuge will be used as a momentum storage device\nfor the whole attitude control system. The centrifuge is mounted on\none of the modules, opposite the ET and the solar panels.\n\nThis design uses most of the existing SSF designs for electrical,\ndata and communication systems, getting leverage from the SSF work\ndone to date.\n\nMark proposed this design at Joe Shea's committee in Crystal City,\nand he reports that he was warmly received. However, the rumors\nI hear say that a design based on a wingless Space Shuttle Orbiter\nseems more likely.\n\nPlease note that this text is my interpretation of Mark's design;\nyou should see his notes in the GIF files. \n\nInstead of posting a 2 MB file to sci.space, I tried to post these for\nanon-FTP in ames.arc.nasa.gov, but it was out of storage space. I'll\nlet you all know when I get that done.\n\n-- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office\n kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (713) 483-4368", "Wing ding XV will take place in Louisville, Kentucky from 15 June-18 June.\nFor more info, or to register, contact GWWRA, P.O.Box 14350, Phoenix, AZ,\n85017, Tel. (602) 269-1403.\n\n-- ", "\nWell, here goes.\n\nThe first item of business is to establish the importance space life\nsciences in the whole of scheme of humankind. I mean compared\nto football and baseball, the average joe schmoe doesn't seem interested\nor even curious about spaceflight. I think that this forum can\nmake a major change in that lack of insight and education.\n\nAll of us, in our own way, can contribute to a comprehensive document\nwhich can be released to the general public around the world. The\ndocument would scientifically analyze the technical aspects of long\nterm human habitation in space.\n\nI believe that if any long-term space exploration program is to \nsucceed we need to basically learn how to engineer our own microworld\n(i.e. the spacecraft). Only through the careful analyses of engineering,\nchemical, biological, and medical factors will a good ecosystem be created\nto facilitate human life on a long-duration flight.\n\nSo, I would like to see posts of opinions regarding the most objective\nmethods to analyze the accepted scientific literature for technologies\nwhich can be applied to long-duration spaceflight. Such a detailed\nliterature search would be of interest to ourselves as space advocates\nand clearly important to existing space programs.\n\nIn essence, we would be dividing the space life science issues into\nvarious technical problems which could be solved with various technologies.\nThis database of acceptable solutions to various problems could form the\nbasis of detailed discussions involving people from the bionet, isunet,\nand any other source!", "I know people hate it when someone says somethings like \"there was an article \nabout that somewhere a while ago\" but I'm going to say it anyway. I read an\narticle on this subject, almost certainly in Space News, and something like\nsix months ago. If anyone is really interested in the subject I can probably\nhunt it down given enough motivation.", "\nYou don't *need* to, but it's desirable. HST, like all satellites in\nlow Earth orbit, is gradually losing altitude due to air drag. It was\ndeployed in the highest orbit the shuttle could reach, for that reason.\nIt needs occasional reboosting or it will eventually reenter. (It has\nno propulsion system of its own.) This is an excellent opportunity,\ngiven that there may not be another visit for several years.", "Come on, this is sci.space. An orbital billboard won't\ndo any permanent damage; in a few years it will reenter\nand probably hit Los Angles anyway :-)\n\nThe boost to space commerce orbital advertising might\nprovide might speed the day it is possible for those with a \nyen for dark skies to get some really dark skies beyond\nthe dust producing the zodiacal light. \n\nNow, if they wanted to paint the CocaCola symbol on the\nmoon in lampblack, that would give me pause. It would\nbe very difficult to reverse such a widespread application\nof pigments.\n", "Actually they synth used in \"JUMP\" was an Oberheim. Watch the video.......", "Sorry for asking a question that's not entirely based on the\ntechnical aspects of space, but I couldn't find the\nanswer on the FAQs !\n\nI'm currently in the UK, which makes seeing a Space Shuttle\nlaunch a little difficult.....\n\nHowever, I have been selected to be an exchange student\nat Louisiana State Uni. from August, and I am absolutely\ndetermined to get to see a Space Shuttle launch sometime\nduring the year at which I will be in America.\n\nI hear there's a bit of a long mailing list, so if someone\ncan tell me how to get tickets and where to get them from, then\nplease E-mail me !\n\nThanks very much for your patience....\n\n(And if anyone else wants to know, tell me and I'll summarize\nfor you - just to save all those poor people who have to\npay for their links !)", "\nThink for a moment about the technology required to do that. By \nthe time they could make the Earth's sky look like Las Vegas, \nthe people could afford to go backpacking on the Moon. Round\ntrip costs for 500 kg to the Moon would be about the same as\n5000 kg in a Low Earth \"advertising\" orbit: Very roughly the\nsame cost as a smallish billboard, therefore. If such ads were\nto become common place, that would have to be a very low price...\n\nThe night sky on a Lunar backpacking trip would still be very \npristine... \n\nThere's always been a problem of having to get \naway from civilization before you can really find \"natural\"\nscenery. 100 years ago, this usually didn't take a trip\nof over 5 miles. Today, most people would have to go 100 miles\nor more. If we ever get to the point where we have billboards\non orbit, that essentially means that no place on Earth is still\n\"wild.\" While that may or may not be a good thing, the orbital\nbillboards aren't the problem: They are just a symptom of \ngrowing, densely-populated civilization. Banning such ads will\nnot save your view of the night sky, because by the time \nsuch ads could become widespread you will probably have trouble\nfinding a place without street lights, where you can _see_\nthe stars...\n\n \nAn ad on a moon of Jupiter would be rather pointless, since you need\na telescope to see them. However, I'd love to see them get all\nthe publicity they could from underwritting the \"Coca Cola Io\nOrbital Mapping Probe.\" \n\n\nThey already can, to some extent: The IAU allows names derived from\nsponsors or patrons of scientific research. If Microscum donates\nmoney to a university astronomy program, one of the galactic \nastronomers could easily get a newly discovered galaxy named after\nthem.", "\n I assume that can only be guessed at by the assumed energy of the\n event and the 1/r^2 law. So, if the 1/r^2 law is incorrect (assume\n some unknown material [dark matter??] inhibits Gamma Ray propagation),\n could it be possible that we are actually seeing much less energetic\n events happening much closer to us? The even distribution could\n be caused by the characteristic propagation distance of gamma rays \n being shorter then 1/2 the thickness of the disk of the galaxy.", "\nWhen the Lunar Society's $500M estimate of the cost of a lunar colony was\nmentioned at Making Orbit, somebody asked Jerry Pournelle \"have you talked\nto Bill Gates?\". The answer: \"Yes. He says that if he were going to\nsink that much money into it, he'd want to run it -- and he doesn't have\nthe time.\"\n\n(Somebody then asked him about Perot. Answer: \"Having Ross Perot on your\nboard may be a bigger problem than not having the money.\")", "Is the film from the \"putt-putt\" test vehicle which used conventional\nexplosives as a proof-of-concept test, or another one?\n", "An excellent reference for non-technical readers on the ORION system is\n\"The Starflight Handbook\", by Eugene Mallove and Gregory Matloff, ISBN\n0-471-61912-4. The relevant chapter is 4: Nuclear Pulse Propulsion.\n\nThe book also contains lots of technical references for the more academically\ninclined. \n\nEnjoy!", "FREE-ENERGY TECHNOLOGY\n by Robert E. McElwaine, Physicist\n \n Ninety to a hundred years ago, everybody \"knew\" that a \n heavier-than-air machine could not possibly fly. It would \n violate the \"laws\" of physics. All of the \"experts\" and \n \"authorities\" said so. \n \n For example, Simon Newcomb declared in 1901: \"The \n demonstration that no possible combination of known \n substances, known forms of machinery and known forms of \n force, can be united in a practical machine by which man \n shall fly long distances through the air, seems to the writer \n as complete as it is possible for the demonstration of any \n physical fact to be.\" \n \n Fortunately, a few SMART people such as the Wright \n Brothers did NOT accept such pronouncements as the final \n word. Now we take airplanes for granted, (except when they \n crash). \n \n Today, orthodox physicists and other \"scientists\" are \n saying similar things against several kinds of 'Free Energy' \n Technologies, using negative terms such as \"pseudo-science\" \n and \"perpetual motion\", and citing so-called \"laws\" which \n assert that \"energy cannot be created or destroyed\" (\"1st law \n of thermodynamics\") and \"there is always a decrease in useful \n energy\" (\"2nd law of thermodynamics\"). The physicists do not \n know how to do certain things, so they ARROGANTLY declare \n that those things cannot be done. Such PRINCIPLES OF \n IMPOTENCE are COMMON in orthodox modern \"science\" and help to \n cover up INCONSISTENCIES and CONTRADICTIONS in orthodox \n modern theories. \n \n Free Energy Inventions are devices which can tap a \n seemingly UNLIMITED supply of energy from the universe, with-\n OUT burning any kind of fuel, making them the PERFECT \n SOLUTION to the world-wide energy crisis and its associated \n pollution, degradation, and depletion of the environment. \n \n Most Free Energy Devices probably do not create energy, \n but rather tap into EXISTING natural energy sources by \n various forms of induction. UNLIKE solar or wind devices, \n they need little or no energy storage capacity, because they \n can tap as much energy as needed WHEN needed. Solar energy \n has the DIS-advantage that the sun is often blocked by \n clouds, trees, buildings, or the earth itself, or is reduced \n by haze or smog or by thick atmosphere at low altitudes and \n high latitudes. Likewise, wind speed is WIDELY VARIABLE and \n often non-existent. Neither solar nor wind power are \n suitable to directly power cars and airplanes. Properly \n designed Free Energy Devices do NOT have such limitations. \n \n For example, at least three U.S. patents (#3,811,058, \n #3,879,622, and #4,151,431) have so far been awarded for \n motors that run EXCLUSIVELY on permanent MAGNETS, seemingly \n tapping into energy circulating through the earth's magnetic \n field. The first two require a feedback network in order to \n be self-running. The third one, as described in detail in \n \"Science & Mechanics\" magazine, Spring 1980, (\"Amazing \n Magnet-Powered Motor\", by Jorma Hyypia, pages 45-48, 114-117, \n and front cover), requires critical sizes, shapes, \n orientations, and spacings of magnets, but NO feedback. Such \n a motor could drive an electric generator or reversible \n heatpump in one's home, YEAR ROUND, FOR FREE. [Complete \n descriptive copies of U.S. patents are $3.00 each from the \n U.S. Patent Office, 2021 Jefferson Davis Hwy., Arlington, VA \n 22202; correct 7-digit patent number required. Or try \n getting copies of BOTH the article AND the Patents via your \n local public or university library's inter-library loan \n dept..] \n \n A second type of free-energy device, such as the 'Gray \n Motor' (U.S. Patent #3,890,548), the 'Tesla Coil', and the \n motor of inventor Joseph Newman [see SCIENCE, 2-10-84, pages \n 571-2.], taps ELECTRO-MAGNETIC energy by INDUCTION from \n 'EARTH RESONANCE' (about 12 cycles per second plus \n harmonics). They typically have a 'SPARK GAP' in the circuit \n which serves to SYNCHRONIZE the energy in the coils with the \n energy being tapped. It is important that the total \n 'inductance' and 'capacitance' of the Device combine to \n 'RESONATE' at the same frequency as 'EARTH RESONANCE' in \n order to maximize the power output. This output can also be \n increased by centering the SPARK GAP at the 'NEUTRAL CENTER' \n of a strong U-shaped permanent magnet. In the case of a \n Tesla Coil, slipping a 'TOROID CHOKE COIL' around the \n secondary coil will enhance output power. [\"Earth Energy: \n Fuelless Propulsion & Power Systems\", by John Bigelow, 1976, \n Health Research, P.O. Box 70, Mokelumne Hill, CA 95245.] \n \n During the 1930's, an Austrian civil engineer named \n Viktor Schauberger invented and partially developed an \n 'IMPLOSION TURBINE' (German name, 'ZOKWENDLE'), after \n analyzing erosion, and lack of erosion, in differently shaped \n waterways, and developing sophisticated mathematical \n equations to explain it. As described in the book \"A \n Breakthrough to New Free-Energy Sources\", by Dan A. Davidson, \n 1977, water is pumped by an IMPELLER pump through a \n LOGARITHMIC-SPIRAL-shaped coil of tubing until it reaches a \n CRITICAL VELOCITY. The water then IMPLODES, no longer \n touching the inside walls of the tubing, and drives the pump, \n which then converts the pump's motor into an ELECTRIC \n GENERATOR. The device seems to be tapping energy from that \n of the earth's rotation, via the 'Coriolis effect', LIKE A \n TORNADO. [ It can also NEUTRALIZE GRAVITY! ] \n \n A fourth type of Free Energy Device is the 'McClintock \n Air Motor' (U.S. Patent #2,982,261), which is a cross between \n a diesel engine (it has three cylinders with a compression \n ratio of 27 to 1) and a rotary engine (with solar and \n planetary gears). It burns NO FUEL, but becomes self-running \n by driving its own air compressor. This engine also \n generates a lot of heat, which could be used to heat \n buildings; and its very HIGH TORQUE makes it ideal for large \n trucks, preventing their slowing down when climbing hills. \n [David McClintock is also the REAL original Inventor of the \n automatic transmission, differential, and 4-wheel drive.] \n \n Crystals may someday be used to supply energy, as shown \n in the Star Trek shows, perhaps by inserting each one between \n metal capacitor plates and bombarding it with a beam of \n particles from a small radioactive source like that used in a \n common household smoke detector. \n \n One other energy source should be mentioned here, \n despite the fact that it does not fit the definition of Free \n Energy. A Bulgarian-born American Physicist named Joseph \n Maglich has invented and partially developed an atomic FUSION \n reactor which he calls 'Migma', which uses NON-radioactive \n deuterium as a fuel [available in nearly UNLIMITED quantities \n from sea water], does NOT produce radioactive waste, can be \n converted DIRECTLY into electricity (with-OUT energy-wasting \n steam turbines), and can be constructed small enough to power \n a house or large enough to power a city. And UNLIKE the \n \"Tokamaks\" and laser fusion MONSTROSITIES that we read about, \n Migma WORKS, already producing at least three watts of power \n for every watt put in. [\"New Times\" (U.S. version), 6-26-78, \n pages 32-40.] \n \n And then there are the 'cold fusion' experiments that \n have been in the news lately, originally conducted by \n University of Utah researchers B. Stanley Pons and Martin \n Fleischmann. Some U.S. Navy researchers at the China Lake \n Naval Weapons Center in California, under the direction of \n chemist Melvin Miles, finally took the trouble to collect the \n bubbles coming from such an apparatus, had them analyzed with \n mass-spectrometry techniques, and found HELIUM 4, which \n PROVES that atomic FUSION did indeed take place, and enough \n of it to explain the excess heat generated. \n \n There are GOOD INDICATIONS that the two so-called \"laws\" \n of thermodynamics are NOT so \"absolute\". For example, the \n late Physicist Dewey B. Larson developed a comprehensive \n GENERAL UNIFIED Theory of the physical universe, which he \n calls the 'Reciprocal System', (which he describes in detail \n in several books such as \"Nothing But Motion\" (1979) and \"The \n Universe of Motion\" (1984)), in which the physical universe \n has TWO DISTINCT HALVES, the material half and an anti-matter \n half, with a CONTINUOUS CYCLE of matter and energy passing \n between them, with-OUT the \"heat death\" predicted by \n thermodynamic \"laws\". His Theory explains the universe MUCH \n BETTER than modern orthodox theories, including phenomena \n that orthodox physicists and astronomers are still scratching \n their heads about, and is SELF-CONSISTENT in every way. Some \n Free Energy Devices might be tapping into that energy flow, \n seemingly converting \"low-quality energy\" into \"high-quality \n energy\". \n \n Also, certain religious organizations such as 'Sant Mat' \n and 'Eckankar' teach their Members that the physical universe \n is only the LOWEST of at least a DOZEN major levels of \n existence, like parallel universes, or analogous to TV \n channels, as described in books like \"The Path of the \n Masters\", by Dr. Julian Johnson, 1939, and \"Eckankar: The Key \n to Secret Worlds\", by Sri Paul Twitchell, 1969. For example, \n the next level up from the physical universe is commonly \n called the 'Astral Plane'. Long-time Members of these groups \n have learned to 'Soul Travel' into these higher worlds and \n report on conditions there. It seems plausible that energy \n could flow down from these higher levels into the physical \n universe, or be created at the boundary between them, given \n the right configuration of matter to channel it. This is \n supported by many successful laboratory-controlled \n experiments in PSYCHO-KINESIS throughout the world, such as \n those described in the book \"Psychic Discoveries Behind the \n Iron Curtain\". \n \n In terms of economics, the market has FAILED. Inventors \n do not have enough money and other resources to fully develop \n and mass-produce Free Energy Equipment, and the conventional \n energy producer$ have no desire to do so because of their \n VE$TED INTERE$T$. The government is needed to intervene. If \n the government does not intervene, then the total supply of \n energy resources from the earth will continue to decline and \n will soon run out, prices for energy will increase, and \n pollution and its harmful effects (including the 'GREENHOUSE \n EFFECT', acid rain, smog, radioactive contamination, oil \n spills, rape of the land by strip mining, etc.) will continue \n to increase. \n \n The government should SUBSIDIZE research and development \n of Free Energy by Inventors and universities, subsidize \n private production (until the producers can make it on their \n own), and subsidize consumption by low-income consumers of \n Free Energy Hardware. \n \n The long-range effects of such government intervention \n would be wide-spread and profound. The quantity of energy \n demanded from conventional energy producer$ (coal mining \n companie$, oil companie$ and countries, electric utilitie$, \n etc.) would drop to near zero, forcing their employees to \n seek work elsewhere. Energy resources (coal, uranium, oil, \n and gas) would be left in the ground. Prices for \n conventional energy supplies would also drop to near zero, \n while the price of Free Energy Equipment would start out high \n but drop as supply increases (as happened with VCR's, \n personal computers, etc.). Costs of producing products that \n require large quantities of energy to produce would decrease, \n along with their prices to consumers. Consumers would be \n able to realize the \"opportunity costs\" of paying electric \n utility bills or buying home heating fuel. Tourism would \n benefit and increase because travelers would not have to \n spend their money for gasoline for their cars. Government \n tax revenue from gasoline and other fuels would have to be \n obtained in some other way. AND ENERGY COULD NO LONGER BE \n USED AS A MOTIVE OR EXCUSE FOR MAKING WAR. \n \n Many conventional energy producer$ would go out of \n business, but society as a whole, and the earth's environment \n and ecosystems, would benefit greatly. It is the People, \n that government should serve, rather than the big \n corporation$ and bank$. \n \n\n For more information, answers to your questions, etc., \n please consult my CITED SOURCES (patents, articles, books). \n\n \n UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this \n IMPORTANT Information is ENCOURAGED. \n", "\n\n\nActually, that is no longer true. In the last few years Congress has\nammended laws to provide whatever is needed. Note that both Spacehab\nand Comet are funded this way.\n\nThe problems aren't legal nor technical. The problem is NASA's culture.\n\n Allen\n", "\n\nI didn't exactly follow the \"dragless\" satellitte thread.\n\nWhat is the point of it? are they used for laser geodesy missions?\ntriad seemed to be some sort of navy navigation bird, but why\nbe \"dragless\" why not just update orbital parameters?", "\n\nI don't know a whole lot on Proton, but given that it is a multi stage\nrocket, up to 4 stages, it may not really need the Centaur, plus\nit may end up seriously beating on said centaur. \n\nAlso, the centaur is not small, unless the Proton has an oversize\nshroud you may not be able to get the centaur in under it.\n\nDennis, you know much about this?", "The European Space Agency has involvement with remote earth \nobservation, and I presume this includes surveillance (optical etc.).\nSo it's not just the US/USSR(ex) who are in the game.\n\nBut what *is* the game? What can be done with space observation?\nThe military functions of missile spotting, troop spotting etc. are well\ndocumented, but what about anything else?\n\nThe biggest eg I can think of is to get a metal sensing sat over a\npaying country and scan their territory for precious metals.\n\nMore importantly, if radar can spot water vapour (clouds), presumably\na radar based sat will be capable of spotting rivers,open water and \n*underground water* from space. This would be a positive life saver\nfor African or other drought affected countries. Implementing a\nclean water and irrigation program would be of imense benifit to such\ncountries and should cut down mortalities considerably.\n\nSo how about it? Is there a charity or government agency that would\npay for a third world country to have their minerals and water deposits\nmapped?\n\nOr is this still sci-fi?\n\nMail replies would be great.\n\nThought for the day: Thermal energy needs water to make steam so sstick\nit in the ocean!\n\n", "\nThat's fine idea, but it only works if the lighting/power company even bothers to supply good light fixtures. For instance, a power company in Virginia \nrecently asked a state commission for permission to sell more lights of various\ntype. Yet, all of the different fixture that they sold and wanted to sell\nwere bad designs - one that wasted the light. Thus, you couldn't even buy\na good light from them. In most places, to get a good light, you have to\neither order it special at high cost or call a store in Arizona. At some\npoint, society starts to make rules. Cars have to pass safety tests. \nCompanies have to meet pollution standards, etc.. There are two ways to achieve this: educate the public so that they demand good lighting or force code\ndown the lighting companies backs. History seems to suggest that the latter\nis more likely to work.\n\nAgreed, so I won't respond again. It's important for all you spacers out \nthere to realize that some people will object to various wild ideas that \nhave been presented. Just like Congress, it would be best to consult\nthe astronomers/lovers of the night sky before you try some PR stunt\nto boost public knowledge about space.", "ARIANESPACE FLIGHT 56\n\n(Flight V.56 was originally intended to carry the Hughes HS-601 series \nGalaxy IV satellite, but the payload was withdrawn just prior to flight.)\n\nThe 56th Ariane launch is now scheduled to place the ASTRA 1C and ARSENE \nsatellites into an improved geostationary transfer orbit (GTO), with \ninclination reduced to 5 degrees and apogee altitude increased by 150 km.\nThis will be the 28th launch of an Ariane 4 and the first in the 42L \nconfiguration, with 2 liquid strap-on boosters (PAL). It will be launched\nfrom the newly refurbished Ariane launch complex ELA 2, in Kourou - French \nGuiana.\n\nThe launch vehicle performance requirement for this mission is 3,147 kg\nof which 2,944 kg represents the satellite mass. The total vehicle mass\nat liftoff is 361,778 kg.\n\n\nRequired Orbit Characteristics:\n Perigee Altitude ..... 200 km\n Apogee Altitude ...... 36,160 km at injection \n Inclination .......... 5 degrees\n\n\nThe Ariane 42L lift-off for Flight 56 is scheduled on Thursday,\nApril 29, 1993, as soon as possible within the following launch \nwindow:\n\n Kourou Time GMT (04/30/93) Washington, DC\n 21:52 - 22:50 00:52 - 01:50 20:52 - 21:50\n\n\nLAUNCH VEHICLE:\n\nAriane 42L. This is a three-stage liquid fueled launcher with two liquid \nfueled strap-on boosters. The first stage (L220) is built by Aerospatiale,\nand is powered by 4 liquid fueled Viking V engines. The second stage (L33)\nis built by MBB Erno and is powered by a single Viking IV engine. Both the\nViking IV and V engines are manufactured by SEP. The first and second stages\nuse a biliquid UH25/N2O4 fuel. The third stage (H10) is built by Aerospatiale,\nand is powered by a cryogenic H2/O2 fueled HM-7B engine built by SEP. The two\nstrap-on boosters (PAL) are each powered by a Viking VI engine, also built \nby SEP, which use the same biliquid fuel as the first and second stages. \nThe fully assembled launch vehicle stands 56 meters high on the pad. \nIt uses the Type 01 Ariane Short payload fairing.\n\n\nFlight Profile:\n\n +02:21 Liquid strap-on booster jettison\n +03:11 First stage separation\n +03:18 Second stage ignition\n +04:10 Fairing jettison\n +05:21 Second stage separation\n +05:26 Third stage ignition\n +17:30 Third stage shutdown / orbit injection\n +19:56 ASTRA 1C separation\n +22:36 Cyclade adapter separation\n +24:26 ARSENE separation\n +28:47 End of Ariane mission 56\n\n\nPAYLOADS:\n\nASTRA 1C is the third spacecraft in the fleet of \"Societe Europeenne\ndes Satellites\" to broadcast direct TV to homes all over Europe.\nBuilt by Hughes, it will be the second HS-601 launched by Ariane.\n\n Total mass at lift-off .... 2,790 kg\n Mass at GEO insertion ..... 1,700 kg\n Dry mass .................. 1,180 kg \n On-board power ............ 3,300 W (end of life)\n Nominal lifetime .......... 15 years \n Span of solar panels ...... 21 m\n On-Orbit position ......... 19.2 degrees east, over Africa.\n\n Transmission capacity: \n 34 channels in Ku-band, via 18 transponders.\n\n In-flight operations:\n Solar array deployment ............ about 6 days after lift-off\n First of 3 apogee motor firings ... about 40 hours after lift-off \n at 4th apogee\n\n\nARSENE is the first spacecraft built by the European Space Industry\nfor the benefit of the world amateur radio community. \n\n Total mass at lift-off .... 154 kg\n Mass at GEO insertion ..... 98 kg\n Dry mass .................. 97 kg \n On-board power ............ 42 W (end of life)\n Nominal lifetime .......... 3 years \n Spacecraft dimensions ..... 1.1m x .96m\n Orbital parameters ........ 20000/36000 km, 0 inclination, period 17:30.\n\n Transmission capacity: \n S-band: 1 transponder at 2.446 ghz\n VHF/UHF: 145/435 mhz \n\n\nLAUNCH COVERAGE:\n\nAll Ariane missions are broadcast live via satellite from Kourou. \nCoverage begins at 30 minutes before launch and continues until \nall payloads have been deployed. This mission will likely be carried\nin the US on Galaxy 6, however it could be Galaxy 7 or another satellite.\n(What is the European satellite normally used for Ariane coverage?)\n ", "\nI was assuming that there won't be a moon base unless it makes a\nprofit, actually. If it does, well, that gives a larger GNP which\nleads to being able to spend more money on your military, including\ngosh-wow space stuff. (assuming it's profitable, rather than paying\nfor itself.)\n\nYou might be able to _run_ one for that; put it there, hardly.\n\nWhy do you think at least a couple centuries before there will\nbe significant commerical activity on the Moon?", "\n\nYou mean like: seconds, minutes, hours, days, months, years. . . :-)\n\nRemember, the Fahrenheit temperature scale is also a centigrade scale. Some\nrevisionists tell the history something like this: The coldest point in a\nparticular Russian winter was marked on the thermometer as was the body\ntemperature of a volunteer (turns out he was sick, but you can't win 'em all).\nThen the space in between the marks on the thermometer was then divided into\nhundredths.\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t:-)\n\nFWIW,\n\nDoug Page\n", "The following laserdisks are in used but \"like-new\" condition:\n\n\nCategory\tTitle\t\t\t\t\t\tPrice\n=========================================================================\n\nHorror\t\tRabid Grannies\t\t\t\t\t20.00\n\t\t\"A blood-spattered tale of two little old\n\t\tladies who open a surprise package from Hell.\"\n\t\tCLV Side 2 CAV 88 min.\n\nHorror\t\tForbidden World\t\t\t\t\t20.00\n\t\t\"Subject 20 is half-human, and one of the \n\t\tresearchers is the father.\" Roger Corman, Prod.\n\t\tCLV 77 min.\n\nHorror\t\tHorror Planet\t\t\t\t\t20.00\n\t\t\"An alien creature has been waiting for a\n\t\tmillion years to breed, and its time has come.\"\n\t\tCLV 93 min.\n\nHorror\t\tWitchTrap\t\t\t\t\t20.00\n\t\t\"...and in the upstairs shower, we have the \n\t\tsexy Ms. Ginger Kowowski and this is where all \n\t\tthe chillingly frightful fun comes to a head.\"\n\t\tCLV 92 min.\n\nMurder \t\tBikini Island\t\t\t\t\t20.00\n\t\t\"Swimwear Illustrated needs a cover girl and \n\t\tthe competition is fierce, very fierce.\n\t\tCLV 85 min.\n\nComedy\t\tHysterical\t\t\t\t\t20.00\n\t\t\"It's a blend of timeless farce, contemporary\n\t\tsatire, nonsensical sight gags and dead people\n\t\tsinging and dancing.\" Hudson Brothers\t\t\n\t\tCLV 90 min.\n\nComedy\t\tHollywood Hot Tubs 2\t\t\t\t20.00\n\t\t\"Valley Girl, Crystal, is back in another\n\t\tsuperheated frolic through those \"Hollywood\n\t\tHot Tubs\".\" CLV 100 min.\n\nComedy\t\tBeverly Hills Brats\t\t\t\t20.00\n\t\t\"Scooter's in trouble now, his kidnappers \n\t\tdon't take credit cards.\" Martin Sheen\n\t\tCLV 90 min.\n\nComedy\t\tTransylvania 6-5000\t\t\t\t20.00\n\t\t\"The good citizens of Transylvania invite you\n\t\tto this, the most frighteningly funny event of\n\t\tthe year.\" Ed Begley Jr., Jeff Goldblum\n\t\tCLV 94 min.\n\nComedy\t\tMeet the Hollowheads\t\t\t\t20.00\n\t\t\"Makes the \"Married...With Children\" gang look\n\t\tsane! Just say NO to butt polish.\"\n\t\tCLV 89 min.\n\nComedy\t\tDon't Tell Mom The Babysitter's Dead\t\t20.00\n\t\t\"No rules. No curfews. No nagging. No pulse.\n\t\tHome Alone times 5!\" Christina Applegate \n\t\tCLV 105 min.\n\nAnimated\tPOPEYE at Sea\t\t\t\t\t20.00\n\t\t\"9 hilarious cartoon adventures on the high \n\t\tseas.\"\n\t\tCLV 60 min. Color\n\nMusical\t\tBabes in Toyland\t\t\t\t20.00\n\t\tDisney re-make of the classic with Annette,\n\t\tTommy Sands, Ray Bolger, and Ed Wynn.\n\t\tCLV 105 min.\n\nAction\t\tAmerican Angels\t- Baptism of Blood \t\t20.00\n\t\t\"Meet the first ladies of Wrestling!\"\t\n\t\tCLV 99 min.\n\nMaking of...\tRunaway Train/52 Pickup\t\t\t\t20.00\n\t\t\"All of the behind the scenes action displayed\n\t\tfor your pleasure.\" Jon Voigt Ann-Margret\n\t\tCAV 43 min.\n\nDrama\t\tI Posed for Playboy\t\t\t\t20.00\n\t\t\"When fantasy meets reality!\" Lynda Carter\n\t\tCLV 98 min.\n\n\nShipping costs of $5.00 per disk ($3.00/disk for 3 disks or more) will be\nadded to the total. 10% off of orders of 5 or more titles. No CODs.\nMO or checks accepted in advance payment.\n", "\nIf I'm not mistaken, this is the usual sort of precaution against loss of\ncommunications. That timer is counting down continuously; if it ever hits\nzero, that means Galileo hasn't heard from Earth in a suspiciously long\ntime and it may be Galileo's fault... so it's time to go into a fallback\nmode that minimizes chances of spacecraft damage and maximizes chances\nof restoring contact. I don't know exactly what-all Galileo does in such\na situation, but a common example is to switch receivers, on the theory\nthat maybe the one you're listening with has died.", "\n As for advertising -- sure, why not? A NASA friend and I spent one\n drunken night figuring out just exactly how much gold mylar we'd need\n to put the golden arches of a certain American fast food organization\n on the face of the Moon. Fortunately, we sobered up in the morning.\n\nHmmm. It actually isn't all that much, is it? Like about 2 million\nkm^2 (if you think that sounds like a lot, it's only a few tens of m^2\nper burger that said organization sold last year). You'd be best off\nwith a reflective substance that could be sprayed thinly by an\nunmanned craft in lunar orbit (or, rather, a large set of such craft).\nIf you can get a reasonable albedo it would be visible even at new\nmoon (since the moon itself is quite dark), and _bright_ at full moon.\nYou might have to abandon the colour, though.\n\nBuy a cheap launch system, design reusable moon -> lunar orbit\nunmanned spraying craft, build 50 said craft, establish a lunar base\nto extract TiO2 (say: for colour you'd be better off with a sulphur\ncompound, I suppose) and some sort of propellant, and Bob's your\nuncle. I'll do it for, say, 20 billion dollars (plus changes of\nidentity for me and all my loved ones). Delivery date 2010.\n\nCan we get the fast-food chain bidding against the fizzy-drink\nvendors? Who else might be interested?\n\nWould they buy it, given that it's a _lot_ more expensive, and not\nmuch more impressive, than putting a large set of several-km\ninflatable billboards in LEO (or in GEO, visible 24 hours from your\nkey growth market). I'll do _that_ for only $5bn (and the changes of\nidentity).", "\n\nEven if they did, a globe at a scale that you could fit into your average room\nor even average \"hall\" the deviations you mention would not be visually\nevident. In other words a micrometer would be required to test the fact that \nthe Globe was infact pear-shaped. \n\nRegards Scott.\n_______________________________________________________________________________\nScott Fisher [scott@psy.uwa.oz.au] PH: Aus [61] Perth (09) Local (380 3272). \n _--_|\\ N\nDepartment of Psychology / \\ W + E\nUniversity of Western Australia. Perth [32S, 116E]--> *_.--._/ S\nNedlands, 6009. PERTH, W.A. v \n\n *** ERROR 144 - REBOOT? is a registered trademark of ENSONIQ Corp ***", "\nWhy jettison the SSMEs? Why not hold on to them and have a shuttle \nbring them down to use as spares?\n", "\n\n\nDepends. If you assume the existance of a working SSTO like DC, on billion\n$$ would be enough to put about a quarter million pounds of stuff on the\nmoon. If some of that mass went to send equipment to make LOX for the\ntransfer vehicle, you could send a lot more. Either way, its a lot\nmore than needed.\n\nThis prize isn't big enough to warrent developing a SSTO, but it is\nenough to do it if the vehicle exists.\n\n Allen\n", "\n\n\n\nThat would not explain why widely separated detectors, such as on Ulysses\nand PVO and Ginga et al., would see a burst at the same time(*). In fact, be-\nfore BATSE, having this widely separated \"Interplanetary Network\" was the\nonly sure way to locate a random burst. With only one detector, one cannot\nlocate a burst (except to say \"It's somewhere in the field of view.\"). With\ntwo detectors, one can use the time that the burst is seen in each detector\nto narrow the location to a thin annulus on the sky. With three detectors,\none gets intersecting annuli, giving two possible locations. If one of these\nlocations is impossible (because, say, the Earth blocked that part of the \nsky), voila, you have an error box.\n\nBATSE, by having 8 detectors of its own, can do its own location determination,\nbut only to within about 3 degrees (would someone at GSFC, like David, like\nto comment on the current state of location determination?). Having inde-\npendent sightings by other detectors helps drive down the uncertainty.\n\nYou did touch on something that you didn't mean to, though. Some believe\n(in a reference that I have somewhere) that absorption-like features seen\nin a fraction of GRBs can actually be caused by the detector. It would be\na mean, nasty God, though, that would have a NaI crystal act like a 10^12 Gauss\nneutron star...but this is getting too far afield.", ".. \n\n\nOne thing to recall. Putting a satellite as high as possible is one thing. \nComing back to not only that altitude, but matching the position of it in \nits orbit on a subsequent mission is another thing. Any misalignment of the \nplane of the orbit during launch or being ahead or behind the target will \nrequire more fuel to adjust. This was considered in the original deployment. \n\nI agree though that the demands on the crew and complexity are stupendous. \nOne has to admire how much they are trying to do. ", "\n\n\n\nThe majority of those who can open their mouths in public perhaps.\nThere seems quite alot of incentive for the British to have control\nof NI, like using the North Channel and Irish Sea as a waste dump (I was\nappalled at the dumping I saw in the harbor in Belfast). It is my\nunderstanding that quite alot of radioactivity enters the water --\nit'd be quite a problem if NI got its independence from Britain and\nthen stopped accepting the waste. Are you suggesting that British\nindustry isn't making profit off the situation as well?\n", "In the April edition of \"One Small Step for a Space Activist\",\nAllen Sherzer & Tim Kyger write:\n \"Another problem is what are called 'wraps' (or sometimes\n the 'center tax'). When work for a large program like\n Freedom or Shuttle is performed at a NASA center, the\n center skims off a portion which goes into what amounts\n to a slush fund. This money is used to fund work the\n center manager wants to fund. This sum is estimated to\n be over a third of the funds allocated. Think about\n that: Of the $30 billion cost of Freedom, fully $10\n billion won't be spent on anything having anything\n to do with Space Stations! Now, maybe that $10 billion\n was wisely spent (and maybe it wasn't), but the work done\n with it should stand on its own merits, not distorting\n the cost of other projects. Congress has no idea of the\n existense of these wraps; Congress has never heard the\n term 'center tax'. They look at the Station they are\n getting and the price they are paying and note that\n it doesn't add up. They wonder this blissfully unaware\n that a third of the money is going for something else.\"\n\nMy dear friends, your mixing fact and fiction here. A couple\nof weeks ago, when I first read this in your posting, I\ntalked with one of the cost experts here in Space Station\nat Headquarters [if you wondering why I didn't post a\nresponse immediately, I do have a real job I'm supposed\nto be doing here at Headquarters, & digging up old 20 kHz\ndata & looking into Sherzer/Kyger claims rates pretty low\non the totem pole of priority. Also, I spent last weekend\nin Kansas City, at the National Science Teachers \nAssociation conference, extolling the virtues of SSF\nto 15,000 science teachers.]\n\nFirst off, yes, the concept of 'center tax', or 'wrap' does\nexist. If I recall the numbers correctly, the total 'tax'\nfor the SSF program for this fiscal year is around $40 Million.\nThis was computed by adding up the WP-1, WP-2, and WP-4\ncenter 'taxes'. With the SSF budget for this fiscal year at\n$2.2 Billion, my calculater says the tax percentage is\n04/2.2 = 1.8%\n\nOver the life of the SSF program, using your figure of $30\nbillion for the cost of SSF, a tax at a 1.8% rate comes to\n$540 million. This is alot less than $10 billion, but I\nwill concede it's still an appreciable amount of pocket\nchange.\n\nI should note that your estimate of the tax rate at 1/3 could\nbe close to the actual rate. The tax is only charged on funds\nthat are spent at the center (kind of like McDonalds at some\nstates, where you do have to pay sales tax if you eat\nthe food at the restaurant, but you don't if you get it\ntake-out). For example, at WP-4, the vast bulk of the funds\nwe receive go to the Rocketdyne Contract, and are *NOT*\nsubject to the center tax (I don't have the numbers in\nfront of me, but I'd guess at least 95% of the WP-4 funds\ngo to Rocketdyne). So, you could be right about a tax\nrate of 1/3, but it's only applied to funds spent at the\ncenter, and not to the prime contracts.\n\nThis leads to the obvious question \"What is the government\ndoing with SSF funds that don't go to the prime contractors?\n(i.e. ok, WP-4 gets a slice of the $30 billion pie. A\nbig portion of this slice goes to Rocketdyne. What happens\nto the balance of the funds, which aren't eaten\nup by the center tax?)\"\n\nAt WP-4, we call these funds we spend in-house supporting\ndevelopment funds (as they are supporting the development\nwork done by Rocketdyne). We have used these funds to\nsetup our own testbed, to checkout the electrical\npower system architecture. Our testbed has a real life\nsolar array field (left over from solar cell research\nresearch a few years back), with lead-acid car batteries\n(to simulate the Nickel-Hydrogen batteries on SSF), DC\nswitchgear, DC-DC converter units, and simulated\nloads. Data from the testbed was used in a recent\nchange evaluation involving concerns about the stability\nof the power system.\n\nWe have also used the supporting development money to\npurchase Nickel Hydrogen batteries, which are on life\ntesting at both Lewis and the Crane Naval facility in\nIndiana. As a side point, 6 of the battery cells on\ntest recently hit the four year life test milestone.\n38 cells have completed 18,552 to 23,405 cycles (the\non-orbit batteries go through 5,840 cycles per year).\n\nAs a final example, my 'home' division at Lewis used\nthe supporting development funds to purchase personal\ncomputers and work stations, for performing system\nanalyses (like modeling of the performance of the\nelectrical power system, availability calculations\nusing a Monte-Carlo simulation, setting up a \ndatabase with information on weight of the power\nsystem elements).\n\nFinally, the money raised by the 'tax' does not all\ngo into a 'slush fund.' At Lewis, the director\ndoes control a small discretionary fund. Each year,\nany individual at Lewis can submit a proposal to\nthe director to get money from this fund to look\nat pretty much anything within the Lewis Charter.\n\nMost of the tax, however, goes to fund the 'general'\nservices at the Center, like the library, the \ncentral computer services division, the Contractor \nwho removes the snow, etc. Thus, it is rather\ndifficult to determine what percentage of the\nSSF budget doesn't go for SSF activities. To get\nan accurate figure, you would have to take\nthe annual expenditure for the library (for example),\nand then divide by the amount of the library funds\nused to support SSF (which would be hard to\ncompute by itself - how would you figure out\nwhat percentage of the bill for Aviation Week for\n1 year is 'billable' to SSF, would you base it on\nthe person-hours SSF employees spend reading AV-week\nversus the rest of the center personnel). You would\nthen have to compare this estimate of the SSF\nportion of the library expense with the portion of\nthe tax that goes to support the library. Who knows,\nmaybe SSF overpays on the tax to run the library, but\nwe underpay for snow removal? Talk about\na burecratic nightmare!", "We run \"SpaceNews & Views\" on our STAREACH BBS, a local\noperation running WWIV software with the capability to link to\nover 1500 other BBS's in the U.S.A. and Canada through WWIVNet.\n Having just started this a couple of months ago, our sub us\ncurrently subscribed by only about ten other boards, but more\nare being added.\n We get our news articles re on Internet, via ftp from NASA\nsites, and from a variety of aerospace related periodicals. We\nget a fair amount of questions on space topics from students\nwho access the system.\n ____________________________________________________________", "why does my keyboard not have a cents key ?\nC\n\nlike to have my 2 cents worth or $ 0.02 (boaring)\n\n -David\n\n=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=", "There is a nice little tool in Lucid emacs. It's called \"calendar\".\nOn request it shows for given longitude/latitude coordinates times for\nsunset and sunrise. The code is written in lisp.\nI don't know if you like the idea that an editor is the right program to\ncalculate these things.\n\n\nTheo W.", "\nThe investment was there in the form of huge tax breaks, and employer\nbenfits. You are overlooking the difference that these could have\nmade to any company. Part of the problem was that few industries\nwere interested in political settling, as much as profit.\n\n\nTrue, which leads to the obvious question, should any investment have\nbeen made there at the taxpayer's expense. Obviously, the answer was\nand still is a resounding no.\n", "Hiya \n\nI'm a VERY amuture astronomer in Adelaide Australia, and today, I heard some\nvery interesting and exciting news from a local program on TV. As I couldn't\nfind anything on it on the news server, I have posted this. However, if it is\nold information, tell me, and ill sue the TV station for saying they are \n'Up to date' ;-)\n\n(Also, my news server could be slow. . so . . .!!!\n\nI only caught the end of the article, so all the information on the topic\nis not known to me at the moment.\n\nThe news is of a small 'psudo' planet outside the orbit of pluto found in a \nHawiian obsevatory, supposably 'recently' - acording to the report.\nIt was meant to be about 150miles in diamater, and a faily large distance \nfrom the plutos orbit. (it had a computer drawing, and the orbit distance\nfrom pluto was about the same as neptune to pluto when they are furthest\napart. This is all I found out about it. OH it is called Karna. (un-officially\n). \nCAn anyone give any more information to me on it???\n\nThanx.\n\nBrendan Woithe\nswoithe@crackle.aelmg.adelaide.edu.au\n\nBTW - if this is old news, does anyone know a good lawyer. . . .8)\n", "As for SF and advertising in space. There is a romantic episode\nin Mead's \"The Big Ball of Wax\" where the lovers are watching \nthe constellation Pepsi Cola rising over the horizon and noting\nthe some 'stars' had slipped cause the Teamsters were on strike.\n\nThis was the inspiration for my article on orbiting a formation\nof space mirrors published in Spaceflight in 1986. As the reviews\nbut is it aesthetically desirable? These days the only aesthetics\nthat count are the ones you can count!", "From the \"JPL Universe\"\nApril 23, 1993\n\nSIRTF is still very much in business", "\nVery likely possible. Reminds me of the movie \"The Rapture\".\n\n\n", "\nTom's right about this. It's only a grantable right if the granter has\nthe will and the ability to stop anyone from taking it away from you.\nNever mind the legal status.\n\n\nNick's right about this. It's always easier to obtain forgiveness than\npermission. Not many people remember that Britain's King George III\nexpressly forbid his american subjects to cross the alleghany/appalachian\nmountains. Said subjects basically said, \"Stop us if you can.\" He\ncouldn't.\n\n\nThat's how the USA started. Of course, that's also how the Bolivarian\nRepublic started (ca. 1800-1820) in central america. It didn't have\nquite the staying power of the USA. I'm sure there are more examples of\ngoing far away and then ignoring authority, but none jump to mind right\nnow.\n\n\nOr do as some whaling nations do: define whatever activities you want to\ncarry out as \"scientific research\" which just coincidentally requires\nthe recovery of megatonnes of minerals (or whatever), then go at it.\n\n\nLute Keyser had just this sort of arrangement with Libya (I think) in\nthe late '70's for his commercial space launch project (one of the very\nearliest). It was killed by Soviet propaganda about NATO cruise\nmissiles in Africa, which made Libya renege on the arrangement.\n", "James Nicholl sez;\n\nJeff responds;\n\n\nI wouldn't worry too much about it, Jeff. If you work for JPL, then your\njob IS imaging things :-)\n\n(I know, it was a just a typo, but I couldn't resist. At least, I hope it\nwas a typo, or my stupid joke is stupider than I intended :-)\n\n-Tommy Mac\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTom McWilliams 517-355-2178 wk \\\\ As the radius of vision increases,\n18084tm@ibm.cl.msu.edu 336-9591 hm \\\\ the circumference of mystery grows.", "\t Also,if they did come from the Oort cloud we would expect to\n see the same from other stars Oort Clouds.", "The Apollo program cost something like $25 billion at a time when\nthe value of a dollar was worth more than it is now. No one would \ntake the offer.", "This might a real wierd idea or maybe not..\n\nI have seen where people have blown up ballons then sprayed material into them\nthat then drys and makes hard walls...\n\nWhy not do the same thing for a space station..\n\nFly up the docking rings and baloon materials and such, blow up the baloons,\nspin then around (I know a problem in micro gravity) let them dry/cure/harden?\nand cut a hole for the docking/attaching ring and bingo a space station..\n\nOf course the ballons would have to be foil covered or someother radiation\nprotective covering/heat shield(?) and the material used to make the wals would\nhave to meet the out gasing and other specs or atleast the paint/covering of\nthe inner wall would have to be human safe.. Maybe a special congrete or maybe\nthe same material as makes caplets but with some changes (saw where someone\ninstea dof water put beer in the caplet mixture, got a mix that was just as\nstrong as congret but easier to carry around and such..)\n\nSorry for any spelling errors, I missed school today.. (grin)..\n\nWhy musta space station be so difficult?? why must we have girders? why be\nconfined to earth based ideas, lets think new ideas, after all space is not\nearth, why be limited by earth based ideas??", "\n\tAs Herny pointed out, you have to develop the thruster.\nAlso, while much lighter, you still have to lift the mass of\nthe thruster to orbit, and then the thruster lifts its own \nweight into a higher orbit. And you take up room in the payload\nbay.", "\n\nMy comment was off the top of my head; I wasn't aware that it had\nalready been thought of. Guess it's true that there's nothing new under\nthe sun (or in this case, the flying billboards.)\n\n\n--", "\n\tI think you'd have to do some massive data compression just to\nfit a bit of key information on each primary particle of the known\nuniverse.\n\tBut, hey, it's fun to imagine.", "Picture our universe floating like a log\nin a river. As the log floats down the\nriver, it occasionally strikes rocks, the\nbank, the bottom, other logs. When this collission\noccurs, kinetic energy is translated into heat, the\nlog degrades, gets scraped up, and other energy \ntranslaions occur. The distribution of damage to\nthe log depends on the shape of the log.\n\nHowever, to a very small virus in a mite on the head of a\ntermite in the center of the log, the shock waves from the\ncollissions would appear uniformly random in direction.\n\nThis is my theory for GRB. They are evidence of our universe\ninteracting with other universes! Why not! Makes\njust as much sense as the GRB coming from the Oort cloud!\n\nThe log theory of universes can't be ruled out!\n\nOf course, I'm a layman in the physics world. You \nphysicists out there, Tell me about this !!!!\n", "\n\n\nLindbergh's flight took place in '27, not the thirties.\n\n\nCould you give examples of privately funded ones?\n\n\nYour logic certainly applies to standard investment strategies. However, the\nconcept of a prize for a difficult goal is done for different reasons, I \nsuspect. I'm not aware that Mr Orteig received any significant economic \nbenefit from Lindbergh's flight. Modern analogies, such as the prize for a\nhuman powered helicopter face similar arguments. There is little economic\nbenefit in such a thing. The advantage comes in the new approaches developed\nand the fact that a prize will frequently generate far more work than the \nequivalent amount of direct investment would. A person who puts up $ X billion\nfor a moon base is much more likely to do it because they want to see it done\nthan because they expect to make money off the deal.", "\n\nWell, if you're going to get upset with this, you might as well direct\nsome of this moral outrage towards Glavcosmos as well. They pioneered\nthis capitalist application of booster adverts long before NASA.\n(Sign of the times: a Sony logo on a Soyuz launcher...)\n\n\nThis sounds like something Lowell Wood would think of. Does anyone\nknow if he's involved?\n\n\nThis may be the purpose for the University of Colorado people. My\nguess is that the purpose for the Livermore people is to learn how to\nbuild large, inflatable space structures.\n\n\nIf this is true, I think it's a great idea.\n\nLearning how to build to build structures in space in an essential\nstep towards space development, and given that Freedom appears to be\nshrinking towards the vanishing point, I question whether NASA's space\nstation is going to provide much, if any, knowledge in this area.\n(Especially if a design such as Faget's wingless orbiter is chosen...)\nIf such a project also monitors ozone depletion and demonstrates\ncreative use of (partial) private sector funding in the process -- so\nmuch the better.\n\n\nAnd does anyone have any more details other than what was in the WN\nnews blip? How serious is this project? Is this just in the \"wild\nidea\" stage or does it have real funding?\n\n\nNot yet. Though, if this project goes through, I suppose The Return\nof Jeremy Rifkin is inevitable...\n--\n_______________________________________________________________________________", "\n\n\n\n\nDidn't one of the early jet fighters have these?\nI also think the germans did some work on these in WWII.\n\n\nA lot of this was also done by the military...\n\n\nWeren't the first microwave landing systems from WWII too?\n\n\nEgad! I'm disagreeing with Mary Shafer!", "[Stuff deleted]\n\nWould Mr. Hart please explain how one could get every nation on\nearth and every corporation to agree that astronomers own the\nnight sky without `coercion'. Remember that not every nation\nfollows the English common law. In most countries, for most of\nhistory, it was probably true that the rulers `owned' everything\nnot explicitly owned by individuals. Even in North America,\nwhere by the principle enunciated, the aboriginal inhabitants should\nhave owned everything, when new arrivals wanted to use land\nand resources, they just took it over. In case Mr. Hart hasn't noticed,\nthere is currently a brutal war going on in Bosnia about who owns what.\nOf course, if some friendly super power were to give an international\nastronomy organization some anti-satelite missiles and also agree\nto defend it if attacked, such a proposal might work, but it\nwould hardly be non-coercive.\n\nSome of us nutty environmentalists think it might make sense first\nto try to mobilize public opinion against advertising in space\nand also to use governmental actions (like taxing power, for example)\nto discourage them. This of course would be too coercive for\nMr. Hart.", "\n\nFine. I'll buy from George. GEORGEEE!!!!\n\nThat assumes I can't weasel out a cooperative venture of some sort (cut me a\nbreak on the launcher, I'll cut you in on the proceeds if it works). Only the\ngovernment pays higher-than-list price. \n\n\nUnless you're Martin Marietta, since (as I recall) they bought out the GD line\nof aerospace products. \n\nIf MM/GD does it as an in-house project, their costs would look much better\nthan buying at \"list price.\" Does anyone REALLY know the profit margins built\nin to the Titan? C'mon. Allen is telling us how cheap we can get improved this\nor that... \n\n\nOh please. How much of a profit do you want? Pulling $100-150 million after\nall is said and done wouldn't be too shabby. Not to mention the other goodies\nI'll collect in:\n\n\ta) Movie & TV rights (say $100-150 million conservatively)\n\tb) Advertising (\"Look Mommie, they're drinking Coke!\")\n\tc) Intangibles\t (Name recognization, experience & data \n\t\t\t\tacculumated)\n\n\nIf you want lean, fine. A $500 million prize would be more than adequate for a\nprize.\n\nMaybe Wales would be kind enough to define what a company would consider\na decent profit.\n\nIf you want R&D done, you'll have to write in R&D clauses. I suppose you could\nmake it a SBIR set-aside :) \n\n", "Archive-name: space/launchers\nLast-modified: $Date: 93/04/01 14:39:11 $\n\nORBITAL AND PLANETARY LAUNCH SERVICES\n\nThe following data comes from _International Reference Guide to Space Launch\nSystems_ by Steven J. Isakowitz, 1991 edition.\n\nNotes:\n * Unless otherwise specified, LEO and polar paylaods are for a 100 nm\n\torbit.\n * Reliablity data includes launches through Dec, 1990. Reliabity for a\n\tfamiliy of vehicles includes launches by types no longer built when\n\tapplicable\n * Prices are in millions of 1990 $US and are subject to change.\n * Only operational vehicle families are included. Individual vehicles\n\twhich have not yet flown are marked by an asterisk (*) If a vehicle\n\thad first launch after publication of my data, it may still be\n\tmarked with an asterisk.\n\n\nVehicle | Payload kg (lbs) | Reliability | Price | Launch Site\n(nation) | LEO\t Polar GTO |\t\t|\t| (Lat. & Long.)\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nAriane\t\t\t\t\t 35/40 87.5%\t Kourou\n(ESA)\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t (5.2 N, 52.8 W)\n AR40\t\t4,900\t 3,900 1,900 1/1\t\t $65m\n\t (10,800) (8,580) (4,190)\n AR42P\t\t6,100\t 4,800 2,600 1/1\t\t $67m\n\t (13,400) (10,600) (5,730)\n AR44P\t\t6,900\t 5,500 3,000 0/0 ?\t $70m\n\t (15,200) (12,100) (6,610)\n AR42L\t\t7,400\t 5,900 3,200 0/0 ?\t $90m\n\t (16,300) (13,000) (7,050)\n AR44LP\t8,300\t 6,600 3,700 6/6\t\t $95m\n\t (18,300) (14,500) (8,160)\n AR44L\t\t9,600\t 7,700 4,200 3/4\t\t $115m\n\t (21,100) (16,900) (9,260)\n\n* AR5\t 18,000\t ???\t 6,800 0/0\t\t $105m\n\t (39,600)\t\t (15,000)\n\t [300nm]\n\n\nAtlas\t\t\t\t\t 213/245 86.9%\t Cape Canaveral\n(USA)\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t (28.5 N, 81.0W)\n Atlas E\t --\t 820\t -- 15/17\t $45m\t Vandeberg AFB\n\t\t\t (1,800)\t\t\t\t(34.7 N, 120.6W)\n\n Atlas I\t5,580\t 4,670 2,250 1/1\t\t $70m\n\t (12,300) (10,300) (4,950)\n\n Atlas II\t6,395\t 5,400 2,680 0/0\t\t $75m\n\t (14,100) (11,900) (5,900)\n\n Atlas IIA\t6,760\t 5,715 2,810 0/0\t\t $85m\n\t (14,900) (12,600) (6,200)\n\n* Atlas IIAS\t8,390\t 6,805 3,490 0/0\t\t $115m\n\t (18,500) (15,000) (7,700)\n\n\nDelta\t\t\t\t\t 189/201 94.0%\t Cape Canaveral\n(USA)\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t Vandenberg AFB\n Delta 6925\t3,900\t 2,950 1,450 14/14\t $45m\n\t (8,780)\t (6,490) (3,190)\n\n Delta 7925\t5,045\t 3,830 1,820 1/1\t\t $50m\n\t (11,100) (8,420) (2,000)\n\n\nEnergia\t\t\t\t\t 2/2 100%\t\t Baikonur\n(Russia)\t\t\t\t\t\t\t (45.6 N 63.4 E)\n Energia 88,000\t 80,000 ??? 2/2\t\t $110m\n\t (194,000) (176,000)\n\n\nH series\t\t\t\t 22/22 100%\t\t Tangeshima\n(Japan)\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t(30.2 N 130.6 E)\n* H-2\t 10,500\t 6,600\t 4,000 0/0\t\t $110m\n\t (23,000)\t(14,500) (8,800)\n\n\nKosmos\t\t\t\t\t 371/377 98.4%\t Plestek\n(Russia)\t\t\t\t\t\t\t (62.8 N 40.1 E)\n Kosmos 1100 - 1350 (2300 - 3000)\t\t $???\t Kapustin Yar\n\t [400 km orbit ??? inclination]\t\t\t (48.4 N 45.8 E)\n\n\nLong March\t\t\t\t 23/25 92.0%\t\t Jiquan SLC\n(China)\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t (41 N\t100 E)\n* CZ-1D\t\t 720\t ???\t 200 0/0\t\t $10m\t Xichang SLC\n\t\t(1,590)\t\t (440)\t\t\t (28 N\t102 E)\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t Taiyuan SLC\n CZ-2C\t\t3,200\t 1,750 1,000 12/12\t $20m\t (41 N\t100 E)\n\t (7,040)\t (3,860) (2,200)\n\n CZ-2E\t\t9,200\t ???\t 3,370 1/1\t\t $40m\n\t (20,300)\t\t (7,430)\n\n* CZ-2E/HO 13,600\t ???\t 4,500 0/0\t\t $???\n\t (29,900)\t\t (9,900)\n\n CZ-3\t\t???\t ???\t 1,400 6/7\t\t $33m\n\t\t\t\t (3,100)\n\n* CZ-3A\t\t???\t ???\t 2,500 0/0\t\t $???m\n\t\t\t\t (5,500)\n\n CZ-4\t\t4,000\t ???\t 1,100 2/2\t\t $???m\n\t (8,800)\t\t (2,430)\n\n\nPegasus/Taurus\t\t\t\t 2/2 100%\t\tPeg: B-52/L1011\n(USA)\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tTaur: Canaveral\n Pegasus\t 455\t 365\t 125 2/2\t\t $10m\t or Vandenberg\n\t\t(1,000) (800) (275)\n\n* Taurus\t1,450\t 1,180 375 0/0\t\t $15m\n\t (3,200)\t (2,600) (830)\n\n\nProton\t\t\t\t\t 164/187 87.7%\t Baikonour\n(Russia)\n Proton 20,000\t ???\t 5,500 164/187\t $35-70m\n\t (44,100)\t\t (12,200)\n\n\nSCOUT\t\t\t\t\t 99/113 87.6%\tVandenberg AFB\n(USA)\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tWallops FF\n SCOUT G-1\t 270\t 210\t 54\t 13/13\t $12m\t(37.9 N 75.4 W)\n\t\t(600)\t (460) (120)\t\t\tSan Marco\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t(2.9 S\t40.3 E)\n* Enhanced SCOUT 525\t 372\t 110\t 0/0\t\t $15m\n\t\t(1,160) (820) (240)\n\n\nShavit\t\t\t\t\t 2/2 100%\t\tPalmachim AFB\n(Israel)\t\t\t\t\t\t\t( ~31 N)\n Shavit\t ???\t 160\t ???\t 2/2\t\t $22m\n\t\t\t (350)\n\nSpace Shuttle\t\t\t\t 37/38 97.4%\tKennedy Space\n(USA)\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tCenter\n Shuttle/SRB 23,500\t ???\t 5,900 37/38\t $248m (28.5 N 81.0 W)\n\t (51,800)\t\t (13,000)\t\t [FY88]\n\n* Shuttle/ASRM 27,100\t ???\t ???\t 0/0\n\t (59,800)\n\n\nSLV\t\t\t\t\t 2/6 33.3%\tSHAR Center\n(India) (400km) (900km polar)\t\t\t\t(13.9 N 80.4 E)\n ASLV\t\t150\t ???\t ??? 0/2\t\t $???m\n\t (330)\n\n* PSLV\t\t3,000\t 1,000 450 0/0\t\t $???m\n\t (6,600)\t (2,200) (990)\n\n* GSLV\t\t8,000\t ???\t 2,500 0/0\t\t $???m\n\t (17,600)\t\t (5,500)\n\n\nTitan\t\t\t\t\t 160/172 93.0%\tCape Canaveral\n(USA)\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tVandenberg\n Titan II\t ???\t 1,905 ??? 2/2\t\t $43m\n\t\t\t (4,200)\n\n Titan III 14,515\t ???\t 5,000 2/3\t\t $140m\n\t (32,000)\t\t (11,000)\n\n Titan IV/SRM 17,700\t 14,100 6,350 3/3\t\t $154m-$227m\n\t (39,000)\t(31,100) (14,000)\n\n Titan IV/SRMU 21,640\t 18,600 8,620 0/0\t\t $???m\n\t (47,700)\t(41,000) (19,000)\n\n\nVostok\t\t\t\t\t 1358/1401 96.9%\tBaikonur\n(Russia)\t\t [650km]\t\t\t\tPlesetsk\n Vostok\t4,730\t 1,840 ??? ?/149\t $14m\n\t (10,400)\t(4,060)\n\n Soyuz\t\t7,000\t ???\t ??? ?/944\t $15m\n\t (15,400)\n\n Molniya\t1500kg (3300 lbs) in\t ?/258\t $???M\n\t\tHighly eliptical orbit\n", "\n\n\nThey have a few problems. The biggest technical problem is the need to find\ntwo satellites going to the same rough orbit for a luanch.\n\nThey also don't show much interest in commercial launches. There is more\nmoney to be made churning out Titan IV's for the government. After all,\nit isn't every day you find a sucker, er, customer who thinks paying\nthree times the commercial rate for launch services is a good idea!\n\n Allen\n", "\nOne consideration to remember is that if you don't turn it off now,\nyou may not be able to later. This isn't a case of reaching over and\nflipping a switch; much of the spacecraft has to be working correctly\nto execute a \"turn off\" command successfully. Spacecraft do malfunction\nin their old age. The big concern is not radio clutter from idle\nspacecraft, but radio clutter from malfunctioning spacecraft that can\nno longer be turned off.", "\nIt would be nice if someone here from the HST program was talking instead\nof all the speculation that is going on here. From what I understand from\nDr. Frank Six of the Marshall Space Flight Center there is no insrmountable\nproblem in bringing HST back. IT was designed that way to begin with.\n\nAlso it is my understanding that the solar arrays WILL be one of the items\nreplaced on this mission. The originals were built by Brit Aerospace and\nI think the new ones are too. I am currently working with the guys at MSFC\nthat are in charge is the HST power system, although I have not spoken with\nthem in a long time about HST. ", "of\n\n\nA transporter operator!?!? That better be one important transport. Usually \nit is a nameless ensign who does the job. For such a guest appearance I would \nhave expected a more visible/meaningful role.\n\n---\n---------------------------------------------------------------------", "\nThere is an excellent software program called Astro.calc that does that and\nmuch more. The latest address I have is\n\n\tMMI Corporation\n\tPO Box 19907\n\tBaltimore, MD 21211\n\tPhone (301) 366-1222\n\n\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nVan E. Neie ven@maxwell.physics.purdue.edu\nPurdue University neie@purccvm.bitnet", "Several people have enquired about the availability of the book about the\nGreat 72\" reflector built at Birr Castle, Ireland in 1845 which remained the\nlargest in the world until the the start of the 20th century.\n\n\"The Astronomy of Birr Castle\" was written by Patrick Moore who now sits on\nthe committee which is going to restore the telescope. (The remains are on\npublic display all year round - the massive support walls, the 60 foot long\ntube, and other bits and pieces). This book is the definitivie history of\nhow one man, the Third Earl of Rosse, pulled off the most impressive\ntechnical achievement, perhaps ever, in the history of the telescope, and\nthe discoveries made with the instrument.\n\nPatrick Moore is donating all proceeds from the book's sale to help restore\nthe telescope. Astronomy Ireland is making the book available world wide by\nmail order. It's a fascinating read and by ordering a copy you bring the day\nwhen we can all look through it once again that little bit nearer.\n\n=====ORDERING INFORMATION=====\n\"The Astronomy of Birr Castle\" Dr. Patrick Moore, xii, 90pp, 208mm x 145mm.\nPrice:\nU.S.: US$4.95 + US$2.95 post & packing (add $3.50 airmail)\nU.K. (pounds sterling): 3.50 + 1.50 post & packing\nEUROPE (pounds sterling): 3.50 + 2.00 post and packing\nREST OF WORLD: as per U.S. but funds payable in US$ only.\n\nPAYMENT:\nMake all payments to \"Astronomy Ireland\".\nCREDIT CARD: MASTERCARD/VISA/EUROCARD/ACCESS accepted by email or snail\nmail: give card number, name & address, expiration date, and total amount.\nPayments otherwise must be by money order or bank draft.\nSend to our permanent address: P.O.Box 2888, Dublin 1, Ireland.\n\nYou can also subscribe to \"Astronomy & Space\" at the same time. See below:\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTony Ryan, \"Astronomy & Space\", new International magazine, available from:\n Astronomy Ireland, P.O.Box 2888, Dublin 1, Ireland.\n6 issues (one year sub.): UK 10.00 pounds, US$20 surface (add US$8 airmail).\nACCESS/VISA/MASTERCARD accepted (give number, expiration date, name&address).", "\nThe situation in this regard has changed considerably in recent years.\nSee the discussion of \"high-power rocketry\" in the rec.models.rockets\nfrequently-asked-questions list.\n\nThis is not hardware you can walk in off the street and buy; you need\nproper certification. That can be had, mostly through Tripoli (the high-\npower analog of the NAR), although the NAR is cautiously moving to extend\nthe upper boundaries of what it considers proper too.\n\nYou need special FAA authorization, but provided you aren't doing it under\none of the LAX runway approaches or something stupid like that, it's not\nespecially hard to arrange.\n\nAs with model rocketry, this sort of hardware is reasonably safe if handled\nproperly. Proper handling takes more care, and you need a lot more empty\nair to fly in, but it's basically just model rocketry scaled up. As with\nmodel rocketry, the high-power people use factory-built engines, which\neliminates the major safety hazard of do-it-yourself rocketry.", "\nOh, Bill, you are so full of shit. That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.\n\n\n\n\nObMOTO: I happened to miss the discussion of deltabox frames, if there was\none, because I actually needed to get some work done last week. So if anybody\nwould care to repeat what got said (since I was the guy who asked, and I'm\nstill ignorant) could you email me? Thanks.\n\n\n\n\n", "\n\nThis is not correct. The event horizon is not the \"center\" of the black\nhole but merely the distance at which the escape velocity is equal to the\nspeed of light. That is, the event horizon is a finite radius...", "\n[A GOOD DEAL OF HEALTHY IF NOT DEEPLY THOUGHT OUT IDEALISM DELETED\nBELOW.]\n\n\nIf their parent company does business (and they will) on the face of the Earth\nthen they are vulnerable to govt. sanctions. Yes they can be stopped.\n\n\nFor the first 100 - 500 (IMHO) years nobody will have to. The colonists will\nbe too dependent on Earth too pull it off. Eventually they will, history\nshows us that.\n\n\nWhat exactly do you mean here? Terrorism? Start an international incident\nso your dream can come true? Crack a few eggs to make the omelet? This\nsounds fairly irresponsible.\n\n\n\nAgain, the tie that binds will be much stronger for space colonists than\nany immigrants that have gone before. Even those intrepid Asian\nexplorers that crossed the Bering land bridge did not have to carry their\nair on their backs.\n\n== \n\nKeep the dream alive, maybe dream it a little more cogently.", "I'm wondering if \"vandalize\" is the proper word to use in this situation. My\ndictionary defines \"vandalism\" as \"the willful or malicious destructuion of \npublic or private property, especially of anything beautiful or artisitc.\" I\nwould agree the sky is beautiful, but not that it is public or private property.\n\nI personally prefer natural skies, far from city lights and sans aircraft. \nHowever, there is also something to be said for being able to look up into the\nsky and see a satellite. Many people get a real kick out of it, especially if\nthey haven't seen one before. ", "Writer Kathy Sawyer reported in today's Washington Post that Joseph Shea, the \nhead of the space station redesign has resigned for health reasons.\n\nShea was hospitalized shortly after his selection in February. He returned\nyesterday to lead the formal presentation to the independent White House panel.\nShea's presentation was rambling and almost inaudible.\n\nShea's deputy, former astronaut Bryan O'Connor, will take over the effort.\n\nGoldin asserted that the redesign effort is on track.", "\n\n\nCorrect, we have no parallax measurements on the bursts.\n\nTherefore, we can't tell whether they're slightly extra solar\nor not!\n\n(which means that parallax can't tell us whether or not it's real close.)\n", "\nI disagree with what to tout, although I agree that the space program is\ninherently a good thing. Most people today only care about \"what will it\ncost me?\" and \"what's in it for me?\" and could care less about whether\nsomething is simply worthwhile in and of itself. Our society has become\nincreasingly geared toward the short-term (which you could read as NOW!). \nThey couldn't care less about next week, much less next century. They want\nsomething to show for the expenditure and they want it *now*.\n\nI think we *should* tell them about the things that they are using now that\nare spinoffs of the space program. That is the only way you can *prove*\nits worth to *them* - and they vote and pay taxes too. The continued\nexistence of the space program relies upon that money.\n\njust my $.02\n\nBTW: don't forget Velcro...", "\nHey! My dad has an old hangar and Judy has some old rockets in her attic,\nlet's put on a Lunar program! . . . Sounds good, but . . .\nLet's play a game - What would be a reasonable reward? What companies would\nhave a reasonable shot at pulling off such a feat? Just where in the\nbudget would the reward come from? Should there be a time limit? Would a\nstraight cash money award be enough or should we throw in say . . . \nexclusive mining rights for the first fifty years? You get the idea.\n\nI'd like to play but I don't have a clue to the answers.", "Brian Yamauchi asks: [Regarding orbital billboards...]\n \n Well, I had been collecting data for next edition of the\nCommercial Space News/Space Technology Investor... To summarize:\n \nSPACE ADVERTISING\n First, advertising on space vehicles is not new -- it is very\ncommon practice to put the cooperating organization's logos on the\nspace launch vehicle. For example, the latest GPS launcher had the\n(very prominent) logos on its side of\n - McDonnell Douglas (the Delta launcher)\n - Rockwell International (who built the GPS satellite)\n - USAF (who paid for the satellite and launch), and\n - the GPS/Navstar program office\n This has not been considered \"paid advertising\" but rather\n\"public relations\", since the restrictions have been such that only\norganizations involved in the launch could put their logos on the\nside, and there was no money exchanged for this. [However, putting\na 10' high logo on the side of the launch vehicle facing the cameras\nis \"advertising\" as much as it is \"public relations\", in my\nopinion.] [And by the way, I note that the DC-X test vehicle has\nrather prominent McDonnell-Douglas and SDIO logos on the side...]\n There have been several studies looking at the revenue potentials\nfor use of space vehicles for advertising, or placing large\nadvertising signs in orbit. On the shuttle, for example, I know of\nseveral serious studies in the early and mid 1980's which looked at\nputting logos on the external tank, or on the sides of the payload\nbay. These ventures would be different than \"public relations\", in\nthat the logos or displays would not be restricted to the firms\nparticipating on that flight, and would involve payment of sums for\nthe right to fly the logos in a prominent organization. (For\nexample, painting the ET to look like a Pepsi can, or putting a\nDisneyworld logo on the inside of the payload bay where the cameras\nwould scan past it.)\n \nADVERTS ON LAUNCH VEHICLES\n The first paid advertising was done on a Soviet launcher in about\n1990, when several non-involved foreign organizations were allowed\nto pay to put their logos on a Proton launch. (An Italian shoe\ncompany was one of the first advertisers, I remember.) Similarly,\nSoviet cosmonauts on Mir made a paid advertisement for the last\nOlympic games, and have gleefully shown banners and other items from\nparticipating firms and organizations. Mars candy bars, for\nexample, got a plug from orbit as a sponsor of the launch of the\nBritish visiting cosmonaut to Mir.\n Now US firms are starting to put paid advertisements on launch\nvehicles. The upcoming Conestoga launch (in June) putting the COMET\nrecoverable payload capsule into orbit will have paid advertisements\non the side, for Arnold Schwarzenegger's upcoming movie \"The Last\nAction Hero\". Besides the usual logos of the participating\norganizations, Columbia pictures has paid $500,000 to put ads on the\nmain fuselage of the mission's Conestoga rocket, its booster\nrockets, and on the COMET payload, which will orbit the Earth for\none month. A concept for this advertising display was published in\nSpace News magazine a couple of months ago.\n (As a side note: Robert Lorsch, an advertising executive, is\ntalking about suing NASA. He charges NASA with appropriating an idea he\ncreated with the space agency in 1981 to form corporate advertising\nsponsorships on NASA spacecraft as a way to get funding for the\nspace program. Lorsch contends that in selling advertising space on\nthe upcoming COMET, NASA violated an agreement that it \"would not use\nhis idea without him being the exclusive representative for NASA and\nreceiving compensation.\" This is being disputed, since the launch\nis a \"commercial launch\" and NASA is receiving none of the\nadvertising revenues, but the funding for the COMET program is\ncoming from NASA.)\n \nORBITAL \"BILLBOARDS\"\n Orbital \"billboards\" have been the staple of science fiction for\nsome time. Arthur C. Clarke wrote about one example, and Robert\nHeinlein described another in \"The Man Who Sold the Moon\". Several\ndifferent potential projects have been developed, although none have\nbeen implemented, but the most real prior to 1993 being the \"Eiffel\nII\" project, which would have placed a large inflatable sculpture in\norbit to celebrate the French Republic's Bi-centennial.\n (cont)", " Sorry, you have a _wish_ for an uncluttered night sky, but it\nisn't a right. When you get down to it, you actually have no rights\nthat the majority haven't agreed to give you (and them in the process).\nIt's a common misconception that being born somehow endows you with\nrights to this that and the other. Sadly this is not true.\n Now if you want to talk about the responsibility that _should_ go with\nthe power to clutter the night sky, then that's a different matter.", "I would like to find out about space engineering employment and educational\nopportunities in the Tucson, Arizona area. E-mail responses appreciated.\nMy mail feed is intermittent, so please try one or all of these addresses.", "There is the Army Ballistic Missile Defense Organization.\n\nThey were the precursors to SDIO. and still exist under\nthat umbrella. Army Signal Corp's and DCA defense Comm Agency\noops DISA, they just changed names do space work. that's\nthe point of all those defense comm sats. ", "\nI also heard the Romans had a large Solar festival on this day because this\nday, about 3 days after the Winter Solstice, was when you could notice a\nchange in the shadows and be sure that the Sun was indeed returning. In fact,\nI remember the latin phrase Natalis Solis Invicti (sp!) associated here.\n\nI can't say for certain when Saturnalia was, since I can't locate my Master\nHoliday List. I think it was 2 weeks or so however.\n\n", "Some time ago I sent the following message:\n Every once in a while I design an orbital space colony. I'm gearing up to\n do another one. I'd some info from you. If you were to move\n onto a space colony to live permanently, how big would the colony have\n to be for you to view a permanent move as desirable? Specifically,\n\n How many people do you want to share the colony with?\n \n\n What physical dimensions does the living are need to have? \n\n\n Assume 1g living (the colony will rotate). Assume that you can leave\n from time to time for vacations and business trips. If you're young\n enough, assume that you'll raise your children there.\n\nI didn't get a lot of responses, and they were all over the block.\nThanx muchly to all those who responded, it is good food for thought.\n\n\n\n\nHere's the (edited) responses I got:\n\n\n How many people do you want to share the colony with?\n \n100\n\n What physical dimensions does the living are need to have? \n\nCylinder 200m diameter x 1 km long\n\nRui Sousa\nruca@saber-si.pt\n\n=============================================================================\n\n\n100,000 - 250,000\n\n\n100 square kms surface, divided into city, towns, villages and\ncountryside. Must have lakes, rivers amd mountains.\n\n=============================================================================\n\n1000. 1000 people really isn't that large a number;\neveryone will know everyone else within the space of a year, and will probably\nbe sick of everyone else within another year.\n\n\nHm. I am not all that great at figuring it out. But I would maximize the\npercentage of colony-space that is accessible to humans. Esecially if there\nwere to be children, since they will figure out how to go everywhere anyways.\nAnd everyone, especially me, likes to \"go exploring\"...I would want to be able\nto go for a walk and see something different each time...\n\n=============================================================================\n\nFor population, I think I would want a substantial town -- big enough\nto have strangers in it. This helps get away from the small-town\n\"everybody knows everything\" syndrome, which some people like but\nI don't. Call it several thousand people.\n\nFor physical dimensions, a somewhat similar criterion: big enough\nto contain surprises, at least until you spent considerable time\ngetting to know it. As a more specific rule of thumb, big enough\nfor there to be places at least an hour away on foot. Call that\n5km, which means a 10km circumference if we're talking a sphere.\n\n Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology\n henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry\n\n=============================================================================\nMy desires, for permanent move to a space colony, assuming easy communication\nand travel:\n\nSize: About a small-town size, say 9 sq. km. 'Course, bigger is better :-)\nPopulation: about 100/sq km or less. So, ~1000 for 9sqkm. Less is\nbetter for elbow room, more for interest and sanity, so say max 3000, min 300.\n\n-Tommy Mac\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTom McWilliams | 517-355-2178 (work) \\\\ Inhale to the Chief!\n18084tm@ibm.cl.msu.edu | 336-9591 (hm)\\\\ Zonker Harris in 1996!", "Archive-name: space/addresses\nLast-modified: $Date: 93/04/01 14:38:55 $\n\nCONTACTING NASA, ESA, AND OTHER SPACE AGENCIES/COMPANIES\n\nMany space activities center around large Government or International\nBureaucracies.\tIn the US that means NASA. If you have basic information\nrequests: (e.g., general PR info, research grants, data, limited tours, and\nESPECIALLY SUMMER EMPLOYMENT (typically resumes should be ready by Jan. 1),\netc.), consider contacting the nearest NASA Center to answer your questions.\n\nEMail typically will not get you any where, computers are used by\ninvestigators, not PR people. The typical volume of mail per Center is a\nmultiple of 10,000 letters a day. Seek the Public Information Office at one\nof the below, this is their job:\n\nNASA (The National Aeronautics and Space Administration) is the\ncivilian space agency of of the United States Federal Government.\nIt reports directly to the White House and is not a Cabinet\npost such as the military Department of Defense. Its 20K+ employees\nare civil servants and hence US citizens. Another 100K+ contractors\nalso work for NASA.\n\nNASA CENTERS\n\n NASA Headquarters (NASA HQ)\n Washington DC 20546\n (202)-358-1600\n\n\tAsk them questions about policy, money, and things of political\n\tnature. Direct specific questions to the appropriate center.\n\n NASA Ames Research Center (ARC)\n Moffett Field, CA 94035\n (415)-694-5091\n\n\tSome aeronautical research, atmosphere reentry, Mars and Venus\n\tplanetary atmospheres. \"Lead center\" for Helicopter research,\n\tV/STOL, etc. Runs Pioneer series of space probes.\n\n NASA Ames Research Center\n Dryden Flight Research Facility [DFRF]\n P. O. Box 273\n Edwards, CA 93523\n (805)-258-8381\n\n\tAircraft, mostly. Tested the shuttle orbiter landing\n\tcharacteristics. Developed X-1, D-558, X-3, X-4, X-5, XB-70, and of\n\tcourse, the X-15.\n\n NASA Goddard Space Flight Center (GSFC)\n Greenbelt, MD 20771\n [Outside of Washington DC]\n (301)-344-6255\n\n\tEarth orbiting unmanned satellites and sounding rockets. Developed\n\tLANDSAT.\n\n Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL)\n California Institute of Technology\n 4800 Oak Grove Dr.\n Pasadena, CA 91109\n (818)-354-5011\n\n\tThe \"heavies\" in planetary research probes and other unmanned\n\tprojects (they also had a lot to do with IRAS). They run Voyager,\n\tMagellan, Galileo, and will run Cassini, CRAF, etc. etc.. For\n\timages, probe navigation, and other info about unmanned exploration,\n\tthis is the place to go.\n\n\tJPL is run under contract for NASA by the nearby California\n\tInstitute of Technology, unlike the NASA centers above. This\n\tdistinction is subtle but critical. JPL has different requirements\n\tfor unsolicited research proposals and summer hires. For instance in\n\tthe latter, an SF 171 is useless. Employees are Caltech employees,\n\tcontractors, and for the most part have similar responsibilities.\n\tThey offer an alternative to funding after other NASA Centers.\n\n\tA fact sheet and description of JPL is available by anonymous\n\tFTP in\n\n\t ames.arc.nasa.gov:pub/SPACE/FAQ/JPLDescription\n\n NASA Johnson Manned Space Center (JSC)\n Houston, TX 77058\n (713)-483-5111\n\n\tJSC manages Space Shuttle, ground control of manned missions.\n\tAstronaut training. Manned mission simulators.\n\n NASA Kennedy Space Flight Center (KSC)\n Titusville, FL 32899\n (407)-867-2468\n\n\tSpace launch center. You know this one.\n\n NASA Langley Research Center (LaRC)\n Hampton, VA 23665\n [Near Newport News, VA]\n (804)-865-2935\n\n\tOriginal NASA site. Specializes in theoretical and experimental\n\tflight dynamics. Viking. Long Duration Exposure Facility.\n\n NASA Lewis Research Center (LeRC)\n 21000 Brookpark Rd.\n Cleveland, OH 44135\n (216)-433-4000\n\n\tAircraft/Rocket propulsion. Space power generation. Materials\n\tresearch.\n\n NASA Marshall Space Flight Center (MSFC)\n Huntsville, AL 35812\n (205)-453-0034\n\n\tDevelopment, production, delivery of Solid Rocket Boosters, External\n\tTank, Orbiter main engines. Propulsion and launchers.\n\n Michoud Assembly Facility\n Orleans Parish\n New Orleans, LA 70129\n (504)-255-2601\n\n\tShuttle external tanks are produced here; formerly Michoud produced\n\tfirst stages for the Saturn V.\n\n Stennis Space Center\n Bay St. Louis, Mississippi 39529\n (601)-688-3341\n\n\tSpace Shuttle main engines are tested here, as were Saturn V first\n\tand second stages. The center also does remote-sensing and\n\ttechnology-transfer research.\n\n Wallops Flight Center\n Wallops Island, VA 23337\n (804)824-3411\n\t Aeronautical research, sounding rockets, Scout launcher.\n\n Manager, Technology Utilization Office\n NASA Scientific and Technical Information Facility\n Post Office Box 8757\n Baltimore, Maryland 21240\n\n Specific requests for software must go thru COSMIC at the Univ. of\n Georgia, NASA's contracted software redistribution service. You can\n reach them at cosmic@uga.bitnet.\n\n NOTE: Foreign nationals requesting information must go through their\n Embassies in Washington DC. These are facilities of the US Government\n and are regarded with some degree of economic sensitivity. Centers\n cannot directly return information without high Center approval. Allow\n at least 1 month for clearance. This includes COSMIC.\n\nThe US Air Force Space Command can be contacted thru the Pentagon along with\n other Department of Defense offices. They have unacknowledged offices in\n Los Angeles, Sunnyvale, Colorado Springs, and other locations. They have\n a budget which rivals NASA in size.\n\nARIANESPACE HEADQUARTERS\n Boulevard de l'Europe\n B.P. 177\n 91006 Evry Cedex\n France\n\nARIANESPACE, INC.\n 1747 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW Suite 875\n Washington, DC 20006\n (202)-728-9075\n\nEUROPEAN SPACE AGENCY (ESA)\n 955 L'Enfant Plaza S.W.\n Washington, D.C. 20024\n (202)-488-4158\n\nNATIONAL SPACE DEVELOPMENT AGENCY (NASDA)\n 4-1 Hamamatsu-Cho, 2 Chome\n Minato-Ku, Tokyo 105, JAPAN\n\nSOYUZKARTA\n 45 Vologradsij Pr.\n Moscow 109125\n USSR\n\nSPACE CAMP\n Alabama Space and Rocket Center\tU.S. SPACE CAMP\n 1 Tranquility Base\t\t\t6225 Vectorspace Blvd\n Huntsville, AL 35805\t\tTitusville FL 32780\n (205)-837-3400\t\t\t(407)267-3184\n\n Registration and mailing list are handled through Huntsville -- both\n camps are described in the same brochure.\n\n Programs offered at Space Camp are:\n\n\tSpace Camp - one week, youngsters completing grades 4-6\n\tSpace Academy I - one week, grades 7-9\n\tAviation Challenge - one week high school program, grades 9-11\n\tSpace Academy II - 8 days, college accredited, grades 10-12\n\tAdult Program - 3 days (editorial comment: it's great!)\n\tTeachers Program - 5 days\n\nSPACE COMMERCE CORPORATION (U.S. agent for Soviet launch services)\n 504 Pluto Drive\t\t 69th flr, Texas Commerce Tower\n Colorado Springs, CO 80906\t Houston, TX 77002\n (719)-578-5490\t\t (713)-227-9000\n\nSPACEHAB\n 600 Maryland Avenue, SW\n Suite 201 West\n Washington, DC 20004\n (202)-488-3483\n\nSPOT IMAGE CORPORATION\n 1857 Preston White Drive,\n Reston, VA 22091\n (FAX) (703)-648-1813 (703)-620-2200\n\n\nOTHER COMMERCIAL SPACE BUSINESSES\n\n Vincent Cate maintains a list with addresses and some info for a variety\nof companies in space-related businesses. This is mailed out on the\nspace-investors list he runs (see the \"Network Resources\" FAQ) and is also\navailable by anonymous ftp from furmint.nectar.cs.cmu.edu (128.2.209.111) in\n/usr/vac/ftp/space-companies.\n", "Archive-name: space/constants\nLast-modified: $Date: 93/04/01 14:39:04 $\n\nCONSTANTS AND EQUATIONS FOR CALCULATIONS\n\n This list was originally compiled by Dale Greer. Additions would be\n appreciated.\n\n Numbers in parentheses are approximations that will serve for most\n blue-skying purposes.\n\n Unix systems provide the 'units' program, useful in converting\n between different systems (metric/English, etc.)\n\n NUMBERS\n\n\t7726 m/s\t (8000) -- Earth orbital velocity at 300 km altitude\n\t3075 m/s\t (3000) -- Earth orbital velocity at 35786 km (geosync)\n\t6371 km\t\t (6400) -- Mean radius of Earth\n\t6378 km\t\t (6400) -- Equatorial radius of Earth\n\t1738 km\t\t (1700) -- Mean radius of Moon\n\t5.974e24 kg\t (6e24) -- Mass of Earth\n\t7.348e22 kg\t (7e22) -- Mass of Moon\n\t1.989e30 kg\t (2e30) -- Mass of Sun\n\t3.986e14 m^3/s^2 (4e14) -- Gravitational constant times mass of Earth\n\t4.903e12 m^3/s^2 (5e12) -- Gravitational constant times mass of Moon\n\t1.327e20 m^3/s^2 (13e19) -- Gravitational constant times mass of Sun\n\t384401 km\t ( 4e5) -- Mean Earth-Moon distance\n\t1.496e11 m\t (15e10) -- Mean Earth-Sun distance (Astronomical Unit)\n\n\t1 megaton (MT) TNT = about 4.2e15 J or the energy equivalent of\n\tabout .05 kg (50 gm) of matter. Ref: J.R Williams, \"The Energy Level\n\tof Things\", Air Force Special Weapons Center (ARDC), Kirtland Air\n\tForce Base, New Mexico, 1963. Also see \"The Effects of Nuclear\n\tWeapons\", compiled by S. Glasstone and P.J. Dolan, published by the\n\tUS Department of Defense (obtain from the GPO).\n\n EQUATIONS\n\n\tWhere d is distance, v is velocity, a is acceleration, t is time.\n\tAdditional more specialized equations are available from:\n\n\t ames.arc.nasa.gov:pub/SPACE/FAQ/MoreEquations\n\n\n\tFor constant acceleration\n\t d = d0 + vt + .5at^2\n\t v = v0 + at\n\t v^2 = 2ad\n\n\tAcceleration on a cylinder (space colony, etc.) of radius r and\n\t rotation period t:\n\n\t a = 4 pi**2 r / t^2\n\n\tFor circular Keplerian orbits where:\n\t Vc\t = velocity of a circular orbit\n\t Vesc = escape velocity\n\t M\t = Total mass of orbiting and orbited bodies\n\t G\t = Gravitational constant (defined below)\n\t u\t = G * M (can be measured much more accurately than G or M)\n\t K\t = -G * M / 2 / a\n\t r\t = radius of orbit (measured from center of mass of system)\n\t V\t = orbital velocity\n\t P\t = orbital period\n\t a\t = semimajor axis of orbit\n\n\t Vc\t = sqrt(M * G / r)\n\t Vesc = sqrt(2 * M * G / r) = sqrt(2) * Vc\n\t V^2 = u/a\n\t P\t = 2 pi/(Sqrt(u/a^3))\n\t K\t = 1/2 V**2 - G * M / r (conservation of energy)\n\n\t The period of an eccentric orbit is the same as the period\n\t of a circular orbit with the same semi-major axis.\n\n\tChange in velocity required for a plane change of angle phi in a\n\tcircular orbit:\n\n\t delta V = 2 sqrt(GM/r) sin (phi/2)\n\n\tEnergy to put mass m into a circular orbit (ignores rotational\n\tvelocity, which reduces the energy a bit).\n\n\t GMm (1/Re - 1/2Rcirc)\n\t Re = radius of the earth\n\t Rcirc = radius of the circular orbit.\n\n\tClassical rocket equation, where\n\t dv\t= change in velocity\n\t Isp = specific impulse of engine\n\t Ve\t= exhaust velocity\n\t x\t= reaction mass\n\t m1\t= rocket mass excluding reaction mass\n\t g\t= 9.80665 m / s^2\n\n\t Ve\t= Isp * g\n\t dv\t= Ve * ln((m1 + x) / m1)\n\t\t= Ve * ln((final mass) / (initial mass))\n\n\tRelativistic rocket equation (constant acceleration)\n\n\t t (unaccelerated) = c/a * sinh(a*t/c)\n\t d = c**2/a * (cosh(a*t/c) - 1)\n\t v = c * tanh(a*t/c)\n\n\tRelativistic rocket with exhaust velocity Ve and mass ratio MR:\n\n\t at/c = Ve/c * ln(MR), or\n\n\t t (unaccelerated) = c/a * sinh(Ve/c * ln(MR))\n\t d = c**2/a * (cosh(Ve/C * ln(MR)) - 1)\n\t v = c * tanh(Ve/C * ln(MR))\n\n\tConverting from parallax to distance:\n\n\t d (in parsecs) = 1 / p (in arc seconds)\n\t d (in astronomical units) = 206265 / p\n\n\tMiscellaneous\n\t f=ma -- Force is mass times acceleration\n\t w=fd -- Work (energy) is force times distance\n\n\tAtmospheric density varies as exp(-mgz/kT) where z is altitude, m is\n\tmolecular weight in kg of air, g is local acceleration of gravity, T\n\tis temperature, k is Bolztmann's constant. On Earth up to 100 km,\n\n\t d = d0*exp(-z*1.42e-4)\n\n\twhere d is density, d0 is density at 0km, is approximately true, so\n\n\t d@12km (40000 ft) = d0*.18\n\t d@9 km (30000 ft) = d0*.27\n\t d@6 km (20000 ft) = d0*.43\n\t d@3 km (10000 ft) = d0*.65\n\n\t\t Atmospheric scale height\tDry lapse rate\n\t\t (in km at emission level)\t (K/km)\n\t\t -------------------------\t--------------\n\t Earth\t 7.5\t\t\t 9.8\n\t Mars\t 11\t\t\t 4.4\n\t Venus\t 4.9\t\t\t 10.5\n\t Titan\t 18\t\t\t 1.3\n\t Jupiter\t 19\t\t\t 2.0\n\t Saturn\t 37\t\t\t 0.7\n\t Uranus\t 24\t\t\t 0.7\n\t Neptune\t 21\t\t\t 0.8\n\t Triton\t 8\t\t\t 1\n\n\tTitius-Bode Law for approximating planetary distances:\n\n\t R(n) = 0.4 + 0.3 * 2^N Astronomical Units (N = -infinity for\n\t Mercury, 0 for Venus, 1 for Earth, etc.)\n\n\t This fits fairly well except for Neptune.\n\n CONSTANTS\n\n\t6.62618e-34 J-s (7e-34) -- Planck's Constant \"h\"\n\t1.054589e-34 J-s (1e-34) -- Planck's Constant / (2 * PI), \"h bar\"\n\t1.3807e-23 J/K\t(1.4e-23) - Boltzmann's Constant \"k\"\n\t5.6697e-8 W/m^2/K (6e-8) -- Stephan-Boltzmann Constant \"sigma\"\n 6.673e-11 N m^2/kg^2 (7e-11) -- Newton's Gravitational Constant \"G\"\n\t0.0029 m K\t (3e-3) -- Wien's Constant \"sigma(W)\"\n\t3.827e26 W\t (4e26) -- Luminosity of Sun\n\t1370 W / m^2\t (1400) -- Solar Constant (intensity at 1 AU)\n\t6.96e8 m\t (7e8)\t -- radius of Sun\n\t1738 km\t\t (2e3)\t -- radius of Moon\n\t299792458 m/s\t (3e8) -- speed of light in vacuum \"c\"\n\t9.46053e15 m\t (1e16) -- light year\n\t206264.806 AU\t (2e5) -- \\\n\t3.2616 light years (3)\t -- --> parsec\n\t3.0856e16 m\t (3e16) -- /\n\n\nBlack Hole radius (also called Schwarzschild Radius):\n\n\t2GM/c^2, where G is Newton's Grav Constant, M is mass of BH,\n\t\tc is speed of light\n\n Things to add (somebody look them up!)\n\tBasic rocketry numbers & equations\n\tAerodynamical stuff\n\tEnergy to put a pound into orbit or accelerate to interstellar\n\t velocities.\n\tNon-circular cases?\n", "\n\nWell, no, during the original deployment mission the HST aperture door was\nnot opened until after the Shuttle had landed. \n\nI presume that during a re-boost mission HST would be berthed in the orbiter\nwith the orbiter bay doors shut; but still there would be lots of contamination\nworries. I understand that the EVA suits are one of the hardest things to \nkeep clean.\n\nBut I still don't know where the idea is coming from that HST _NEEDS_ a\nre-boost. We have many problems but our orbit is the least of them. There\nis certainly no plan to change the orbit in the first servicing mission in\nDecember.", "=Having read in the past about the fail-safe mechanisms on spacecraft, I had\n=assumed that the Command Loss Timer had that sort of function. However I\n=always find disturbing the oxymoron of a \"NO-OP\" command that does something.\n=If the command changes the behavior or status of the spacecraft it is not\n=a \"NO-OP\" command.\n\nUsing your argument, the NOOP operation in a computer isn't a NOOP, since it\ncauses the PC to be incremented.\n\n=Of course this terminology comes from a Jet Propulsion Laboratory which has\n=nothing to do with jet propulsion.\n\nOf course, the complaint comes from someone who hasn't a clue as to what he's\ntalking about.\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nCarl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL", "#The better question should be.\n#Why not transfer O&M of all birds to a separate agency with continous funding\n#to support these kind of ongoing science missions.\n\nSince we don't have the money to keep them going now, how will\nchanging them to a seperate agency help anything?\n", "Idea for repair of satellites:\n\nWarning I am getting creative again:\n\nWhy not build a inflatable space dock.\n\nBasically deploy one side of the space dock (using a scissor shaped structure,\nsaw it on beyond 2000), then maneuer the side to next to the satellite and then\nmove the rest of the dock around the satellite and seal it..\nThe inflate the dock with a gas (is does not have to be oxygen, just neeeds to\nbe non-flameble, non-damaging to the satellite and abel to maintain heat),\nthenheat the space dock (for the astronaut who will be working onthe satellite\nto be able to not have to wear the normal bulky space suit, but a much striped\ndown own).. \n\nI know this might take a slot of work or not??? Or just to plain wierd, but\nideas need to be thought of, for where is tomorrow, but in the imagination of\nthe present..", "# >Coca Cola company will want to paint the moon red and white. (Well,\n# >if not this moon, then a moon of Jupiter)...\n\nThis reminds me of the old Arthur C. Clarke story about the Coca Cola\nad stashed inside an experiment.", ".. \n\nAs Ben says - this re-boost idea is all news to us here. Do you know \nsomething we don't? Please supply a source - it would be nice for \nthe schedulers of observations to know where the thing is going to \nbe. These altitude numbers are also way off. \n\nMy best source has: \n\"Minimum ST ALTITUDE in the PMDB is: 573 Kilometers\"\n\"Maximum ST ALTITUDE in the PMDB is: 603 Kilometers\"\n\"Delta ST ALTITUDE in the PMDB is: 3 Kilometers\" \n\n(PMDB is Proposal Management Data Base - used to schedule observations.) \n..\n\n\nCould you supply some calculations? You might check some recent \npostings that explained that 'a small booster' as suggested does \nnot now exist, so comparing the mass of something that doesn't \nexist to the mass of the OMS fuel seems impossible. The contamination \nthreat also remains. \n\n.. \n Longer drag life I can understand, but could you explain the \nantenna pointing? \n\n\nTell me about it. Although the arrays can be (and are) moved perfectly \nwell utilizing the second electronics box. Getting them both working \nis much desireable so as to reclaim redundancy. \n\n\nI don't mean to jump on you - helpful suggestions are always welcome \nand we all know the more ideas the better, but I do want the true \nsituation to be described clearly and correctly, lest some get \nconfused. ", "\nI don't think that idea means what you think it does. Having everyone\non Earth subject to some ad agency's \"poor taste\" *is* an abomination.\n(abomination : n. loathing; odious or degrading habit or act; an\nobject of disgust. (Oxford Concise Dictionary)) Maybe *you* don't mind\nhaving every part of your life saturated with commercials, but many of\nus loathe it. I'd rather not have the beauty of the night sky always marred\nby a giant billboard, and I'll bet the idea is virtually sacrilegious\nto an astronomer like Sagan.", "prb@access.digex.com (Pat) Pontificated: \nWhat I was getting at in my post is whether or not it might be\npossible to put enough brains on board future deep-space probes\nfor them to automatically avoid such things as looking at the\nsun or going into an uncontrolled tumble. \n\nI heard once that the voyagers had a failsafe routine built in\nthat essentially says \"If you never hear from Earth again,\nhere's what to do.\" This was a back up in the event a receiver\nburnt out but the probe could still send data (limited, but\nstill some data). \n\nSince this would be a shutdown that may never be refunded for\nstartup, if some type of cosmic BEM took out the probe, it might\nnot be such a big loss. Obviously you can't plan for\neverything, but the most obvious things can be considered.\n", "\nOnly if he doesn't spend more than a billion dollars doing it, since the\nprize is not going to be scaled up to match the level of effort. You can\nspend a billion pretty quickly buying Titan launches.\n\nWhat's more, if you buy Titans, the prize money is your entire return on\ninvestment. If you develop a new launch system, it has other uses, and\nthe prize is just the icing on the cake.\n\nI doubt very much that a billion-dollar prize is going to show enough\nreturn to justify the investment if you are constrained to use current\nUS launchers. (There would surely be a buy-American clause in the rules\nfor such a prize, since it would pretty well have to be government-funded.)\nYou're going to *have* to invest your front money in building a new launch\nsystem rather than pissing it away on existing ones. Being there first is\nof no importance if you go bankrupt doing it.\n\n\nI'm sure Spar would offer to develop such a lunar-tuned system and deliver\na couple of them to you for only a couple of hundred million dollars.", "\nThe General Chairman is Paul Bialla, who is some official of General\nDynamics.\n\nThe emphasis seems to be on a scaled-down, fast plan to put *people*\non the Moon in an impoverished spaceflight-funding climate. You'd\nthink it would be a golden opportunity to do lots of precusor work for\nmodest money using an agressive series of robot spacecraft, but\nthere's not a hint of this in the brochure.\n\n\nYou're not hanging out with the Right People, apparently.", "\n\n\n(\"like most good ideas,...\" please, people!)\n\n\n_Five Weeks in a Balloon_. Not a good idea unless you have helium.\nVerne's protagonists didn't. They just got increadibly lucky.\n\nAnd yes, I knew the title of the movie too, just didn't want to start\ntalking about it. Except to bring up the image of a team of S. African\nBushmen showing up at a launch site with spears and flint knives\nto stop the launch (anyone want to bet on their success in doing so?\nespecially since they could probably stop a shuttle launch by sneezing\ntoo hard within a couple miles of the launch site).", "\n\nThe problem is that you imagine him inside this huge wall, unable\nto see reality. While he imagines the same about you. Clearly we\nhave a case where relativity plays a big role concerning looking\nat opposite frames of reality.\n\nCheers,\nKent", "\nNeil Gehrels is Prof. Tom Gehrels son. Tom Gehrels was the discoverer\nof P/Gehrels 3 (as well as about 4 other comets - the latest of which\ndoes not bear his name, but rather the name \"Spacewatch\" since he was\nobserving with that system when he found the latest comet). \n\n\n---------------------------------------------\nJim Scotti \n{jscotti@lpl.arizona.edu}\nLunar & Planetary Laboratory\nUniversity of Arizona\nTucson, AZ 85721 USA", "\nTheir Hiten engineering-test mission spent a while in a highly eccentric\nEarth orbit doing lunar flybys, and then was inserted into lunar orbit\nusing some very tricky gravity-assist-like maneuvering. This meant that\nit would crash on the Moon eventually, since there is no such thing as\na stable lunar orbit (as far as anyone knows), and I believe I recall\nhearing recently that it was about to happen.", " > \n > \n > SOmebody mentioned a re-boost of HST during this mission, meaning\n > that Weight is a very tight margin on this mission.\n > \n\nI haven't heard any hint of a re-boost, or that any is needed.\n\n > \n > why not grapple, do all said fixes, bolt a small liquid fueled\n > thruster module to HST, then let it make the re-boost. it has to be\n > cheaper on mass then usingthe shuttle as a tug. \n\nNasty, dirty combustion products! People have gone to monumental efforts to\nkeep HST clean. We certainly aren't going to bolt any thrusters to it.", "I can see it now emblazened across the evening sky --", "\n\nSPECIFIC:\nBasically to be able to do the things the big dadies can do.. Monitor, and\ncontrol if need be the Shuttle...\n\nSuch as the one in Australia and such....", "\nHere are some selected excerpts of the invitation/registration form they\nsent me. Retyped without permission, all typo's are mine.\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\nLow-Cost Lunar Access: A one-day conference to explore the means and \nbenefits of a rejuvenated human lunar program.\n\nFriday, May 7, 1993\nHyatt Regency - Crystal City Hotel\nArlington, VA\n\nABOUT THE CONFERENCE\nThe Low-Cost Lunar Access conference will be a forum for the exchange of\nideas on how to initiate and structure an affordable human lunar program.\nInherent in such low-cost programs is the principle that they be \nimplemented rapidly and meet their objectives within a short time\nframe.\n\n[more deleted]\n\nCONFERENCE PROGRAM (Preliminary)\n\nIn the Washington Room:\n\n 9:00 - 9:10 a.m. Opening Remarks\n Dr. Alan M. Lovelace\n\n 9:10 - 9:30 a.m. Keynote Address\n Mr. Brian Dailey\n\n 9:30 - 10:00 a.m. U.S. Policy Outlook\n John Pike, American Federation of Scientists\n\n A discussion of the prospects for the introduction of a new low-cost\n lunar initiative in view of the uncertain direction the space\n program is taking.\n\n 10:00 - 12:00 noon Morning Plenary Sessions\n\n Presentations on architectures, systems, and operational concepts.\n Emphasis will be on mission approaches that produce significant\n advancements beyond Apollo yet are judged to be affordable in the\n present era of severely constrained budgets\n\n\nIn the Potomac Room\n\n 12:00 - 1:30 p.m. Lunch\n Guest Speaker: Mr. John W. Young,\n NASA Special Assistant and former astronaut\n\nIn the Washington Room\n\n 1:30 - 2:00 p.m. International Policy Outlook\n Ian Pryke (invited)\n ESA, Washington Office\n\n The prevailing situation with respect to international space \n commitments, with insights into preconditions for European \n entry into new agreements, as would be required for a cooperative\n lunar program.\n\n 2:00 - 3:30 p.m. Afternoon Plenary Sessions\n\n Presentations on scientific objectives, benefits, and applications.\n Emphasis will be placed on the scientific and technological value\n of a lunar program and its timeliness.\n\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nThere is a registration form and the fee is US$75.00. The mail address\nis \n\n American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics\n Dept. No. 0018\n Washington, DC 20073-0018\n\nand the FAX No. is: \n\n (202) 646-7508\n\nor it says you can register on-site during the AIAA annual meeting \nand on Friday morning, May 7, from 7:30-10:30\n\n\nSounds interesting. Too bad I can't go.", "\nI remember a physic prof. who talked about scaling a cue ball to Earth size.\nIts was significantly less spherical that the Earth!\n\n---\nTerry F Figurelle\t\t\tBoeing Defense & Space Group\nemail: tff@plato.ds.boeing.com\t\tPO BOX 3999, Mail Stop 6J-EA\nphone: 206-394-3115 fax:206-394-4300\tSeattle, WA 98124-2499\n", "I have the \"osculating elements at perigee\" of an orbit, which I need\nto convert to something useful, preferably distance from the earth\nin evenly spaced time intervals. A GSM coordinate system is preferable,\nbut I convert from other systems. C, pascal, or fortran code, or\nif you can point me to a book or something that'd be great.\n\nhere's the first few lines of the file.\n\n0 ()\n1 (2X, A3, 7X, A30)\n2 (2X, I5, 2X, A3, 2X, E24.18)\n3 (4X, A3, 7X, E24.18)\n1 SMA SEMI-MAJOR AXIS\n1 ECC ECCENTRICITY\n1 INC INCLINATION\n1 OMG RA OF ASCENDING NODE\n1 POM ARGUMENT OF PERICENTRE\n1 TRA TRUE ANOMALY\n1 HAP APOCENTRE HEIGHT\n1 HPE PERICENTRE HEIGHT\n2 3 BEG 0.167290000000000000E+05\n3 SMA 0.829159999999995925E+05\n3 ECC 0.692307999999998591E+00\n3 INC 0.899999999999999858E+02\n3 OMG 0.184369999999999994E+03\n3 POM 0.336549999999999955E+03\n3 TRA 0.359999999999999943E+03\n3 HAP 0.133941270127999174E+06\n3 HPE 0.191344498719999910E+05\n2 1 REF 0.167317532658774153E+05\n3 SMA 0.829125167527418671E+05\n3 ECC 0.691472268118590319E+00\n3 INC 0.899596754214342091E+02\n3 OMG 0.184377521828175002E+03\n3 POM 0.336683788851850579E+03\n3 TRA 0.153847166458030088E-05\n3 HAP 0.133866082767180880E+06\n3 HPE 0.192026707383028306E+05\n\nThanks in advance,", "\nWelcome aboard! And, since I haven't seen this yet this year (but all\npreceding years), let me say:", "I think if there is to be a prize and such.. There should be \"classes\"\nsuch as the following:\n\nLarge Corp.\nSmall Corp/Company (based on reported earnings?)\nLarge Government (GNP and such)\nSmall Governemtn (or political clout or GNP?)\nLarge Organization (Planetary Society? and such?)\nSmall Organization (Alot of small orgs..)\n\nThe organization things would probably have to be non-profit or liek ??\n\nOf course this means the prize might go up. Larger get more or ??\nBasically make the prize (total purse) $6 billion, divided amngst the class\nwinners..\nMore fair?\n\nThere would have to be a seperate organization set up to monitor the events,\numpire and such and watch for safety violations (or maybe not, if peopel want\nto risk thier own lives let them do it?).", "\n\nOf course there is.\n\nPerhaps the Vogons will put in a hyperspace bypass so that he can get there.\n", "\n\n\nI once thought it would be easiest fitting a sine to the times. But not.\nThis gave discrepancy of upto six minutes. If you fit a sine series\nyou'll get a very good fit after just three or four terms though. This\npresumably has to do with the eccentricity of the Earths orbit.\n", "I am doing a political science paper on the funding of NASA and pork-barrel \npolitics. I would be interested in information about funding practices and\nhistories of some of the major programs (Apollo, STS, SSF, etc) and the\nfunding of SSTO to contrast. Could someone please recommend some sources\nthat would be useful? Thank you.", "Forwarded from Doug Griffith, Magellan Project Manager\n\n MAGELLAN STATUS REPORT\n April 23, 1993\n\n1. The Magellan spacecraft continues to operate normally, gathering\ngravity data to plot the density variations of Venus in the\nmid-latitudes. The solar panel offpoint was returned to zero degrees\nand spacecraft temperatures dropped 2-3 degrees C.\n\n2. An end-to-end test of the Delayed Aerobraking Data readout\nprocess was conducted this week in preparation for the Transition\nExperiment. There was some difficulty locking up to the data frames,\nand engineers are presently checking whether the problem was in\nequipment at the tracking station.\n\n3. Magellan has completed 7277 orbits of Venus and is now 32 days\nfrom the end of Cycle 4 and the start of the Transition Experiment.\n\n4. Magellan scientists were participating in the Brown-Vernadsky\nMicrosymposium at Brown University in Providence, RI, this week. This\njoint meeting of U.S. and Russian Venus researchers has been\ncontinuing for many years.", "\n\nThe gravity data is collected in real-time and it not recorded to the tape\nrecorder. However, you only need to collect the gravity every 3rd or 4th\norbit, so there is no real data loss if the Moon blocks transmission for\na short while.\n", "\n\n\nFrom the Pluto Fast Flyby Instrument definition research anouncemnet,\nthe instrument payload constraints are:\n Mass allocation - 7 kilograms (15.4 lbs)\n Power allocation - 6 watts\n Required instruments:\n\tVisible imaging system (1024x1024 CCD, 750 mm fl, f/10 optics)\n\tIR mapping spectrometer (256x256 HgCdTe array, 0.3% energy resolution)\n\tUV spectrometer (55-200 nm, 0.5 nm resolution)\n\tRadio science (ultrastable oscilator incorporated in telecom system)\n\t\tultrastable means 10^-14.\n\nThis doesn't leave much room for payloads which are totally unrelated\nto the mission of the spacecraft. In addition, the power will come\nfrom a radioisotope thermal generator, and the whole space craft will\nbe about 2 feet in diameter, with no booms, which means there will be\nstrong gamma-lines from Pu-239 and associated schmutz in the\nbackground, which tends to reduce sensitivity somewhat.\n\nIt would still be nice, and our group here at Goddard is looking\nin to it.\n", "\n\n\nOr how about:\n \"End light pollution now!!\"\n\nYour banner would have no effect on its subject, but my banner would.\n", "\nYes! Just take money from the profitable commercial enterprises\nand give it to the government to \"redistribute.\" Government is so much\nmore efficient, trustworthy, and noble than self-serving businesses. :)\n\nLet's nip this redistributionist ignorance in the bud. If it were not\nfor commercial enterprises, the whole world would be starving.", "Hi Folks,\n\n Last year America bought two \"Hall Generators\" which are\nused as thrusters for space vehicles from former USSR,if I could recall\ncorrectly these devices were sent to JPL,Pasadena labs for testing and\nevaluation.\n \n I am just curious to know how these devices work and what\nwhat principle is involved .what became of them.There was also some\ncontroversy that the Russian actually cheated,sold inferior devices and\nnot the one they use in there space vehicles.\n\nAny info will be appreciated...\n ok { Thank{ in advance...\nTamoor A Zaidi\nLockheed Commercial Aircraft Center\nNorton AFB,San Bernardino", "\nFeasability study?? What a wimp!! While you are studying, others would be\ndoing. Too damn many engineers doing way too little engineering.\n\n\"He who sits on his arse sits on his fortune\" - Sir Richard Francis Burton", "Archive-name: space/math\nLast-modified: $Date: 93/04/01 14:39:12 $\n\nPERFORMING CALCULATIONS AND INTERPRETING DATA FORMATS\n\n COMPUTING SPACECRAFT ORBITS AND TRAJECTORIES\n\n References that have been frequently recommended on the net are:\n\n \"Fundamentals of Astrodynamics\" Roger Bate, Donald Mueller, Jerry White\n 1971, Dover Press, 455pp $8.95 (US) (paperback). ISBN 0-486-60061-0\n\n NASA Spaceflight handbooks (dating from the 1960s)\n\tSP-33 Orbital Flight Handbook (3 parts)\n\tSP-34 Lunar Flight Handbook (3 parts)\n\tSP-35 Planetary Flight Handbook (9 parts)\n\n\tThese might be found in university aeronautics libraries or ordered\n\tthrough the US Govt. Printing Office (GPO), although more\n\tinformation would probably be needed to order them.\n\n M. A. Minovitch, _The Determination and Characteristics of Ballistic\n Interplanetary Trajectories Under the Influence of Multiple Planetary\n Attractions_, Technical Report 32-464, Jet Propulsion Laboratory,\n Pasadena, Calif., Oct, 1963.\n\n\tThe title says all. Starts of with the basics and works its way up.\n\tVery good. It has a companion article:\n\n M. Minovitch, _Utilizing Large Planetary Perubations for the Design of\n Deep-Space Solar-Probe and Out of Ecliptic Trajectories_, Technical\n Report 32-849, JPL, Pasadena, Calif., 1965.\n\n\tYou need to read the first one first to realy understand this one.\n\tIt does include a _short_ summary if you can only find the second.\n\n\tContact JPL for availability of these reports.\n\n \"Spacecraft Attitude Dynamics\", Peter C. Hughes 1986, John Wiley and\n\tSons.\n\n \"Celestial Mechanics: a computational guide for the practitioner\",\n Lawrence G. Taff, (Wiley-Interscience, New York, 1985).\n\n\tStarts with the basics (2-body problem, coordinates) and works up to\n\torbit determinations, perturbations, and differential corrections.\n\tTaff also briefly discusses stellar dynamics including a short\n\tdiscussion of n-body problems.\n\n\n COMPUTING PLANETARY POSITIONS\n\n More net references:\n\n Van Flandern & Pullinen, _Low-Precision Formulae for Planetary\n Positions_, Astrophysical J. Supp Series, 41:391-411, 1979. Look in an\n astronomy or physics library for this; also said to be available from\n Willmann-Bell.\n\n\tGives series to compute positions accurate to 1 arc minute for a\n\tperiod + or - 300 years from now. Pluto is included but stated to\n\thave an accuracy of only about 15 arc minutes.\n\n _Multiyear Interactive Computer Almanac_ (MICA), produced by the US\n Naval Observatory. Valid for years 1990-1999. $55 ($80 outside US).\n Available for IBM (order #PB93-500163HDV) or Macintosh (order\n #PB93-500155HDV). From the NTIS sales desk, (703)-487-4650. I believe\n this is intended to replace the USNO's Interactive Computer Ephemeris.\n\n _Interactive Computer Ephemeris_ (from the US Naval Observatory)\n distributed on IBM-PC floppy disks, $35 (Willmann-Bell). Covers dates\n 1800-2049.\n\n \"Planetary Programs and Tables from -4000 to +2800\", Bretagnon & Simon\n 1986, Willmann-Bell.\n\n\tFloppy disks available separately.\n\n \"Fundamentals of Celestial Mechanics\" (2nd ed), J.M.A. Danby 1988,\n Willmann-Bell.\n\n\tA good fundamental text. Includes BASIC programs; a companion set of\n\tfloppy disks is available separately.\n\n \"Astronomical Formulae for Calculators\" (4th ed.), J. Meeus 1988,\n Willmann-Bell.\n\n \"Astronomical Algorithms\", J. Meeus 1991, Willmann-Bell.\n\n\tIf you actively use one of the editions of \"Astronomical Formulae\n\tfor Calculators\", you will want to replace it with \"Astronomical\n\tAlgorithms\". This new book is more oriented towards computers than\n\tcalculators and contains formulae for planetary motion based on\n\tmodern work by the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, the U.S. Naval\n\tObservatory, and the Bureau des Longitudes. The previous books were\n\tall based on formulae mostly developed in the last century.\n\n\tAlgorithms available separately on diskette.\n\n \"Practical Astronomy with your Calculator\" (3rd ed.), P. Duffett-Smith\n 1988, Cambridge University Press.\n\n \"Orbits for Amateurs with a Microcomputer\", D. Tattersfield 1984,\n Stanley Thornes, Ltd.\n\n\tIncludes example programs in BASIC.\n\n \"Orbits for Amateurs II\", D. Tattersfield 1987, John Wiley & Sons.\n\n \"Astronomy / Scientific Software\" - catalog of shareware, public domain,\n and commercial software for IBM and other PCs. Astronomy software\n includes planetarium simulations, ephemeris generators, astronomical\n databases, solar system simulations, satellite tracking programs,\n celestial mechanics simulators, and more.\n\n\tAndromeda Software, Inc.\n\tP.O. Box 605\n\tAmherst, NY 14226-0605\n\n\n COMPUTING CRATER DIAMETERS FROM EARTH-IMPACTING ASTEROIDS\n\n Astrogeologist Gene Shoemaker proposes the following formula, based on\n studies of cratering caused by nuclear tests.\n\n\t\t (1/3.4)\n D = S S c K W\t : crater diameter in km\n\t g p f n\n\n\t (1/6)\n S = (g /g )\t\t : gravity correction factor for bodies other than\n g\t e t\t\t Earth, where g = 9.8 m/s^2 and g\tis the surface\n\t\t\t\t\t e\t\t t\n\t\t\t gravity of the target body. This scaling is\n\t\t\t cited for lunar craters and may hold true for\n\t\t\t other bodies.\n\n\t\t(1/3.4)\n S = (p / p )\t : correction factor for target density p ,\n p\t a t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t t\n\t\t\t p = 1.8 g/cm^3 for alluvium at the Jangle U\n\t\t\t a\n\t\t\t crater site, p = 2.6 g/cm^3 for average\n\t\t\t rock on the continental shields.\n\n C\t\t\t : crater collapse factor, 1 for craters <= 3 km\n\t\t\t in diameter, 1.3 for larger craters (on Earth).\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t (1/3.4)\n K\t\t\t : .074 km / (kT TNT equivalent)\n n\t\t\t empirically determined from the Jangle U\n\t\t\t nuclear test crater.\n\n\t 3\t\t 2\t\t 19\n W = pi * d\t* delta * V / (12 * 4.185 * 10 )\n\t\t\t : projectile kinetic energy in kT TNT equivalent\n\t\t\t given diameter d, velocity v, and projectile\n\t\t\t density delta in CGS units. delta of around 3\n\t\t\t g/cm^3 is fairly good for an asteroid.\n\n An RMS velocity of V = 20 km/sec may be used for Earth-crossing\n asteroids.\n\n Under these assumptions, the body which created the Barringer Meteor\n Crater in Arizona (1.13 km diameter) would have been about 40 meters in\n diameter.\n\n More generally, one can use (after Gehrels, 1985):\n\n Asteroid\t Number of objects Impact probability Impact energy\n diameter (km)\t\t (impacts/year)\t (* 5*10^20 ergs)\n\n 10\t\t\t 10\t\t 10^-8\t\t10^9\n 1\t\t\t 1 000\t\t 10^-6\t\t10^6\n 0.1\t 100 000\t\t 10^-4\t\t10^3\n\n assuming simple scaling laws. Note that 5*10^20 ergs = 13 000 tons TNT\n equivalent, or the energy released by the Hiroshima A-bomb.\n\n References:\n\n Gehrels, T. 1985 Asteroids and comets. _Physics Today_ 38, 32-41. [an\n\texcellent general overview of the subject for the layman]\n\n Shoemaker, E.M. 1983 Asteroid and comet bombardment of the earth. _Ann.\n\tRev. Earth Planet. Sci._ 11, 461-494. [very long and fairly\n\ttechnical but a comprehensive examination of the\n\t subject]\n\n Shoemaker, E.M., J.G. Williams, E.F. Helin & R.F. Wolfe 1979\n\tEarth-crossing asteroids: Orbital classes, collision rates with\n\tEarth, and origin. In _Asteroids_, T. Gehrels, ed., pp. 253-282,\n\tUniversity of Arizona Press, Tucson.\n\n Cunningham, C.J. 1988 _Introduction to Asteroids: The Next Frontier_\n\t(Richmond: Willman-Bell, Inc.) [covers all aspects of asteroid\n\tstudies and is an excellent introduction to the subject for people\n\tof all experience levels. It also has a very extensive reference\n\tlist covering essentially all of the reference material in the\n\tfield.]\n\n\n MAP PROJECTIONS AND SPHERICAL TRIGNOMETRY\n\n Two easy-to-find sources of map projections are the \"Encyclopaedia\n Brittanica\", (particularly the older volumes) and a tutorial appearing\n in _Graphics Gems_ (Academic Press, 1990). The latter was written with\n simplicity of exposition and suitability of digital computation in mind\n (spherical trig formulae also appear, as do digitally-plotted examples).\n\n More than you ever cared to know about map projections is in John\n Snyder's USGS publication \"Map Projections--A Working Manual\", USGS\n Professional Paper 1395. This contains detailed descriptions of 32\n projections, with history, features, projection formulas (for both\n spherical earth and ellipsoidal earth), and numerical test cases. It's a\n neat book, all 382 pages worth. This one's $20.\n\n You might also want the companion volume, by Snyder and Philip Voxland,\n \"An Album of Map Projections\", USGS Professional Paper 1453. This\n contains less detail on about 130 projections and variants. Formulas are\n in the back, example plots in the front. $14, 250 pages.\n\n You can order these 2 ways. The cheap, slow way is direct from USGS:\n Earth Science Information Center, US Geological Survey, 507 National\n Center, Reston, VA 22092. (800)-USA-MAPS. They can quote you a price and\n tell you where to send your money. Expect a 6-8 week turnaround time.\n\n A much faster way (about 1 week) is through Timely Discount Topos,\n (303)-469-5022, 9769 W. 119th Drive, Suite 9, Broomfield, CO 80021. Call\n them and tell them what you want. They'll quote a price, you send a\n check, and then they go to USGS Customer Service Counter and pick it up\n for you. Add about a $3-4 service charge, plus shipping.\n\n A (perhaps more accessible) mapping article is:\n\n\tR. Miller and F. Reddy, \"Mapping the World in Pascal\",\n\tByte V12 #14, December 1987\n\n\tContains Turbo Pascal procedures for five common map projections. A\n\tdemo program, CARTOG.PAS, and a small (6,000 point) coastline data\n\tis available on CompuServe, GEnie, and many BBSs.\n\n Some references for spherical trignometry are:\n\n\t_Spherical Astronomy_, W.M. Smart, Cambridge U. Press, 1931.\n\n\t_A Compendium of Spherical Astronomy_, S. Newcomb, Dover, 1960.\n\n\t_Spherical Astronomy_, R.M. Green, Cambridge U. Press., 1985 (update\n\tof Smart).\n\n\t_Spherical Astronomy_, E Woolard and G.Clemence, Academic\n\tPress, 1966.\n\n\n PERFORMING N-BODY SIMULATIONS EFFICIENTLY\n\n\t\"Computer Simulation Using Particles\"\n\tR. W. Hockney and J. W. Eastwood\n\t(Adam Hilger; Bristol and Philadelphia; 1988)\n\n\t\"The rapid evaluation of potential fields in particle systems\",\n\tL. Greengard\n\tMIT Press, 1988.\n\n\t A breakthrough O(N) simulation method. Has been parallelized.\n\n\tL. Greengard and V. Rokhlin, \"A fast algorithm for particle\n\tsimulations,\" Journal of Computational Physics, 73:325-348, 1987.\n\n\t\"An O(N) Algorithm for Three-dimensional N-body Simulations\", MSEE\n\tthesis, Feng Zhao, MIT AILab Technical Report 995, 1987\n\n\t\"Galactic Dynamics\"\n\tJ. Binney & S. Tremaine\n\t(Princeton U. Press; Princeton; 1987)\n\n\t Includes an O(N^2) FORTRAN code written by Aarseth, a pioneer in\n\t the field.\n\n\tHierarchical (N log N) tree methods are described in these papers:\n\n\tA. W. Appel, \"An Efficient Program for Many-body Simulation\", SIAM\n\tJournal of Scientific and Statistical Computing, Vol. 6, p. 85,\n\t1985.\n\n\tBarnes & Hut, \"A Hierarchical O(N log N) Force-Calculation\n\tAlgorithm\", Nature, V324 # 6096, 4-10 Dec 1986.\n\n\tL. Hernquist, \"Hierarchical N-body Methods\", Computer Physics\n\tCommunications, Vol. 48, p. 107, 1988.\n\n\n INTERPRETING THE FITS IMAGE FORMAT\n\n If you just need to examine FITS images, use the ppm package (see the\n comp.graphics FAQ) to convert them to your preferred format. For more\n information on the format and other software to read and write it, see\n the sci.astro.fits FAQ.\n\n\n SKY (UNIX EPHEMERIS PROGRAM)\n\n The 6th Edition of the Unix operating system came with several software\n systems not distributed because of older media capacity limitations.\n Included were an ephmeris, a satellite track, and speech synthesis\n software. The ephmeris, sky(6), is available within AT&T and to sites\n possessing a Unix source code license. The program is regarded as Unix\n source code. Sky is <0.5MB. Send proof of source code license to\n\n\tE. Miya\n\tMS 258-5\n\tNASA Ames Research Center\n\tMoffett Field, CA 94035-1000\n\teugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov\n\n\n THREE-DIMENSIONAL STAR/GALAXY COORDINATES\n\n To generate 3D coordinates of astronomical objects, first obtain an\n astronomical database which specifies right ascension, declination, and\n parallax for the objects. Convert parallax into distance using the\n formula in part 6 of the FAQ, convert RA and declination to coordinates\n on a unit sphere (see some of the references on planetary positions and\n spherical trignometry earlier in this section for details on this), and\n scale this by the distance.\n\n Two databases useful for this purpose are the Yale Bright Star catalog\n (sources listed in FAQ section 3) or \"The Catalogue of Stars within 25\n parsecs of the Sun\" (in pub/SPACE/FAQ/stars.data and stars.doc on\n ames.arc.nasa.gov).\n", "SSF is up for redesign again. Let's do it right this\ntime! Let's step back and consider the functionality we want:\n\n[1] microgravity/vacuum process research\n[2] life sciences research (adaptation to space)\n[3] spacecraft maintenence \n\nThe old NASA approach, explified by Shuttle and SSF so far, was to\ncentralize functionality. These projects failed to meet\ntheir targets by a wide margin: the military and commercial users \ntook most of their payloads off Shuttle after wasting much effort to \ntie their payloads to it, and SSF has crumbled into disorganization\nand miscommunication. Over $50 billion has been spent on these\ntwo projects with no reduction in launch costs and littel improvement\nin commercial space industrialization. Meanwhile, military and commercial \nusers have come up with a superior strategy for space development: the \nconstellation. \n\nFirstly, different functions are broken down into different \nconstellations placed in the optimal orbit for each function:\nthus we have the GPS/Navstar constellation in 12-hour orbits,\ncomsats in Clarke and Molniya orbits, etc. Secondly, the task\nis distributed amongst several spacecraft in a constellation,\nproviding for redundancy and full coverage where needed.\n\nSSF's 3 main functions require quite different environments\nand are also prime candidates for constellization.\n\n[1] We have the makings of a microgravity constellation now:\nCOMET and Mir for long-duration flights, Shuttle/Spacelab for\nshort-duration flights. The best strategy for this area is\ninexpensive, incremental improvement: installation of U.S. facilities \non Mir, Shuttle/Mir linkup, and transition from Shuttle/Spacelab\nto a much less expensive SSTO/Spacehab/COMET or SSTO/SIF/COMET.\nWe might also expand the research program to take advantage of \ninteresting space environments, eg the high-radiation Van Allen belt \nor gas/plasma gradients in comet tails. The COMET system can\nbe much more easily retrofitted for these tasks, where a \nstation is too large to affordably launch beyond LEO.\n\n[2] We need to study life sciences not just in microgravity,\nbut also in lunar and Martian gravities, and in the radiation\nenvironments of deep space instead of the protected shelter\nof LEO. This is a very long-term, low-priority project, since\nastronauts will have little practical use in the space program\nuntil costs come down orders of magnitude. Furthermore, using\nastronauts severely restricts the scope of the investigation,\nand the sample size. So I propose LabRatSat, a constellation\ntether-bolo satellites that test out various levels of gravity\nin super-Van-Allen-Belt orbits that are representative of the\nradiation environment encountered on Earth-Moon, Earth-Mars,\nEarth-asteroid, etc. trips. The miniaturized life support\nmachinery might be operated real-time from earth thru a VR\ninterface. AFter several orbital missions have been flown,\nfollow-ons can act as LDEFs on the lunar and Martian surface,\ntesting out the actual environment at low cost before $billions\nare spent on astronauts.\n\n[3] By far the largest market for spacecraft servicing is in \nClarke orbit. I propose a fleet of small teleoperated\nrobots and small test satellites on which ground engineers can\npractice their skills. Once in place, robots can pry stuck\nsolar arrays and antennas, attach solar battery power packs,\ninject fuel, etc. Once the fleet is working, it can be\nspun off to commercial company(s) who can work with the comsat\ncompanies to develop comsat replaceable module standards.\n\nBy applying the successful constellation strategy, and getting\nrid of the failed centralized strategy of STS and old SSF, we\nhave radically improved the capability of the program while\ngreatly cutting its cost. For a fraction of SSF's pricetag,\nwe can fix satellites where the satellites are, we can study\nlife's adaptation to a much large & more representative variety \nof space environments, and we can do microgravity and vacuum\nresearch inexpensively and, if needed, in special-purpose\norbits.\n\nN.B., we can apply the constellation strategy to space exploration\nas well, greatly cutting its cost and increasing its functionality. \nMars Network and Artemis are two good examples of this; more ambitiously \nwe can set up a network of native propellant plants on Mars that can be used\nto fuel planet-wide rover/ballistic hopper prospecting and\nsample return. The descendants of LabRatSat's technology can\nbe used as a Mars surface LDEF and to test out closed-ecology\ngreenhouses on Mars at low cost.\n\n", "Other idea for old space crafts is as navigation beacons and such..\nWhy not?? If you can put them on \"safe\" \"pause\" mode.. why not have them be\nactivated by a signal from a space craft (manned?) to act as a naviagtion\nbeacon, to take a directional plot on??", "Dale sez;\n\nI don't buy it. If the things had no value at all, people wouldn't\nspend money to make them. So their lack of value is just your\nopinion, not an actual fact, which is neither a philisophical or\nlegal basis for prohibiting them.\n\nOn the other hand, I lived in OakBrook IL for a while, where zoning\nlaws prohibit billboards, as you mention above. I think it was a\nfine law, despite it's contradictory basis.\n\nI would guess that the best legal and moral basis for protest would\nbe violation of private property. \"I bought this house, out in\nthe boondocks, specifically to enjoy my hobby, amateur astronomy. Now\nthis billboard has made that investment worthless, so I want the\nprice of the property, in damages.\" It wouldn't take too many\nsuccesful cases like that to make bill-sats prohibitively expensive.\n\n-Tommy Mac\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTom McWilliams 517-355-2178 wk \\ They communicated with the communists,\n18084tm@ibm.cl.msu.edu 336-9591 hm \\ and pacified the pacifists. -TimBuk3", "+\n+I love the idea of an inflatable 1-mile long sign.... It will be a\n+really neat thing to see it explode when a bolt (or even better, a\n+Westford Needle!) comes crashing into it at 10 clicks a sec. \n+\nPageos and two Echo balloons were inflated with a substance\nwhich expanded in vacuum. Once inflated the substance was no longer\nneeded since there is nothing to cause the balloon to collapse.\nThis inflatable structure could suffer multiple holes with no \ndisastrous deflation.\n", "\nDo you have any statistical evidence to back you claim that requires another\nlimitation of the citizenry freedom?\n-- \n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nSteve Podleski\t\t\t| phone: 216-433-4000\nNASA Lewis Research Center \t| \nCleveland, Ohio 44135 \t| email: pspod@hooch.lerc.nasa.gov ", "If gamma ray bursters are extragalactic, would absorption from the\ngalaxy be expected? How transparent is the galactic core to gamma\nrays?\n\nHow much energy does a burster put out? I know energy depends on\ndistance, which is unknown. An answer of the form _X_ ergs per\nmegaparsec^2 is OK.\n\n", "+At one time there was speculation that the first spacewalk \n+(Alexei Leonov ?) was a staged fake.\n+\n+Has any evidence to support or contradict this claim emerged ?\n+\n+Was this claim perhaps another fevered Cold War hallucination ?\n\nI, for one, would be an avid reader of a sci.space.ussr.what.really.\nhappened.\n", "\n\nYes, where commodities are concerned. Imagining that capitalist\ntheorists had software in mind when they wrote their grand treatises\non \"the main point of capitalism\" is non-productive.", "[deleted]\n\nNot to flame (REALLY), but thats an abominable viewpoint (while were\non the subject of abominations). If we followed the \"redistiribution\nof wealth\" (and by the way, ist that what Clinto and the Democrats are\ntrying to do...), EVERYONE would starve in short order. Not only is\nit impossoble to organize a fair distribution that depends on every\n(wo)man's altruism (can you say black market under communisim\nanyone?), but the current methods of resource production are entirely\nenergy dependant. There are not enough sources of cheap capital\n(aside from human capital) to allow us to stop looking at space a an\nexcellent source of materials and realestate. More directly, perhaps\nyou mioght consider the fact that BILLIONS are spent by TV companies,\nand their sponsors, (ABC, NBC, CBS...) on the SUPERBOWL, the OLYMPICS,\nand even on monday night baseball games. Perhaps we should boycott\nthose games? If DC-X and company get finished, and there is a market\nfor it, those \"abominable\" space will probably be much more cost\neffective for the companies, and those starving children. More people\nbuy products, the company hires more workers, end result fewer\nchildren die of starvation.\n\n-- ", "\nNot useful unless you've got some truly wonderful propulsion system for\nthe mother ship that can't be applied to the probes. Otherwise it's\nbetter to simply launch the probes independently. The outer planets\nare scattered widely across a two-dimensional solar system, and going\nto one is seldom helpful in going to the next one. Uranus is *not* on\nthe way to Neptune. Don't judge interplanetary trajectories in general\nby what the Voyagers did: they exploited a lineup that occurs only\nevery couple of centuries, and even so Voyager 2 took a rather indirect\nroute to Neptune.\n\n\nSolar sails are pretty useless in the outer solar system. They're also\nvery slow, unless you assume quite advanced versions.", "\nSince the DC-X is to take off horizontal, why not land that way??\nWhy do the Martian Landing thing.. Or am I missing something.. Don't know to\nmuch about DC-X and such.. (overly obvious?).\n\nWhy not just fall to earth like the russian crafts?? Parachute in then...\n\n==\nMichael Adams, nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu -- I'm not high, just jacked", "To All -- I thought the net would find this amusing..\n \nFrom the March 1993 \"Aero Vision\" (The newsletter for the Employees\nof McDonnell Douglas Aerospace at Huntington Beach, California).\n \n SPACE CLIPPERS LAUNCHED SUCCESSFULLY\n \n \"On Monday, March 15 at noon, Quest Aerospace Education, Inc.\n launched two DC-Y Space Clippers in the mall near the cafeteria.\n The first rocket was launched by Dr. Bill Gaubatz, director and\n SSTO program manager, and the second by Air Force Captain Ed\n Spalding, who with Staff Sgt. Don Gisburne represents Air Force\n Space Command, which was requested by SDIO to assess the DC-X for\n potential military operational use. Both rocket launches were\n successful. The first floated to the ground between the cafeteria\n and Building 11, and the second landed on the roof of the\n cafeteria.\n \n Quest's Space Clipper is the first flying model rocket of the\n McDonnell Douglas DC-X. The 1/122nd semi-scale model of the\n McDonnell Douglas Delta Clipper has an estimated maximum altitude\n of 300 feet. The Space Clippers can be used in educational\n settings to teach mathematics and science, as well as social\n studies and other applications. The Space Clipper is available\n either in the $35 Space Clipper outfit, which includes everything\n needed for three launches, or as individual rockets for $12 each.\n Both are available through hobby shops or by calling 1-800-858-\n 7302.\"\n \nBy the way -- this is not an endorsement to buy the product nor is\nit an advertisement to buy the product. I make no claims about the\nproduct. This is posted for public information only (hey, I found\nit amusing...), and is merely a repeat of what was included in the\nMDSSC Huntington Beach Newsletter.\n \n-----------------------------------------------------------------\n Wales Larrison Space Technology Investor\n ", "\nWell, I'll avoid your question for now (got some learnin' to do) with a\npromise to come back with more info when I can find it. I _do_ know that\nBATSE is the primary instrument in the development of the all-sky map of\nlong-term sources. Given that fact, and the spacecraft attitude knowledge\nof approx. 2 arcmin, we might be able to figure out how well BATSE can\ndetermine the location (rotational) of a Gamma Ray burster from knowledge\nof the all-sky map's accuracy. PR material for the other three instruments\ngive accuracies on the order of \"fractions of a degree\", if that's \nany help.\n\nSpeaking of GRO, the net-world probably was happy to see that the preps\nfor orbit adjust appear to be going well. Our branch guy who's helping\nout says that things have gone smoothly with the iso-valve preps and the\nburns will take place in mid-June.\n\nAnyway, I'm off to find out more. 'Be back when I get some info.", "\na yes, but the improvement in boost orbit to the HST is Significant,\nand that means you can then carry EDO packs and enough consumables\nso the SHuttle mission can go on long enough to also fix the\narray tilt motors, and god knows what else is going to wear out\non the HST in the next 9 months.", "GS> How about transferring control to a non-profit organisation that is\nGS> able to accept donations to keep craft operational.\n\nI seem to remember NASA considering this for some of the Apollo\nequipment left on the moon, but that they decided against it.\n\nOr maybe not...\n\n", "The Space Calendar is updated monthly and the latest copy is available\nat ames.arc.nasa.gov in the /pub/SPACE/FAQ. Please send any updates or\ncorrections to Ron Baalke (baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov). Note that launch\ndates are subject to change.\n\n The following person made contributions to this month's calendar:\n\n o Dennis Newkirk - Soyuz TM-18 Launch Date (Dec 1993).\n\n\n =========================\n SPACE CALENDAR\n April 27, 1993\n =========================\n\n* indicates change from last month's calendar\n\nApril 1993\n* Apr 29 - Astra 1C Ariane Launch\n\nMay 1993\n May ?? - Advanced Photovoltaic Electronics Experiment (APEX) Pegasus Launch\n May ?? - Radcal Scout Launch\n May ?? - GPS/PMQ Delta II Launch\n* May ?? - Commercial Experiment Transporter (COMET) Conestoga Launch\n* May 01 - Astronomy Day\n* May 01-2 - Iapetus/Saturn Eclipse\n May 04 - Galileo Enters Asteroid Belt Again\n May 04 - Eta Aquarid Meteor Shower (Maximum: 21:00 UT, Solar Lon: 44.5 deg)\n* May 13 - Air Force Titan 4 Launch\n* May 18 - STS-57, Endeavour, European Retrievable Carrier (EURECA-1R)\n* May 20 - 15th Anniversary, Pioneer Venus Orbiter Launch\n May 21 - Partial Solar Eclipse, Visible from North America & Northern Europe\n May 25 - Magellan, Aerobraking Begins\n\nJune 1993\n Jun ?? - Temisat Meteor 2 Launch\n Jun ?? - UHF-2 Atlas Launch\n Jun ?? - NOAA-I Atlas Launch\n Jun ?? - First Test Flight of the Delta Clipper (DC-X), Unmanned\n Jun ?? - Hispasat 1B & Insat 2B Ariane Launch\n Jun 04 - Lunar Eclipse, Visible from North America\n Jun 14 - Sakigake, 2nd Earth Flyby (Japan)\n Jun 22 - 15th Anniversary of Charon Discovery (Pluto's Moon) by Christy\n Jun 30 - STS-51, Discovery, Advanced Communications Technology Satellite\n\nJuly 1993\n Jul ?? - MSTI-II Scout Launch\n Jul ?? - Galaxy 4 Ariane Launch\n Jul 01 - Soyuz Launch (Soviet)\n Jul 08 - Soyuz Launch (Soviet)\n Jul 14 - Soyuz TM-16 Landing (Soviet)\n* Jul 20-21 - Iapetus/Saturn Eclipse\n Jul 21 - Soyuz TM-17 Landing (Soviet)\n Jul 28 - S. Delta Aquarid Meteor Shower (Maximum: 19:00 UT,\n Solar Longitude 125.8 degrees)\n Jul 29 - NASA's 35th Birthday\n\nAugust 1993\n Aug ?? - ETS-VI (Engineering Test Satellite) H2 Launch (Japan)\n Aug ?? - GEOS-J Launch\n Aug ?? - Landsat 6 Launch\n Aug ?? - ORBCOM FDM Pegasus Launch\n* Aug 08 - 15th Anniversary, Pioneer Venus 2 Launch (Atmospheric Probes)\n Aug 09 - Mars Observer, 4th Trajectory Correction Maneuver (TCM-4)\n Aug 12 - N. Delta Aquarids Meteor Shower (Maximum: 07:00 UT,\n Solar Longitude 139.7 degrees)\n Aug 12 - Perseid Meteor Shower (Maximum: 15:00 UT,\n Solar Longitude 140.1 degrees)\n Aug 24 - Mars Observer, Mars Orbit Insertion (MOI)\n Aug 25 - STS-58, Columbia, Spacelab Life Sciences (SLS-2)\n Aug 28 - Galileo, Asteroid Ida Flyby\n\nSeptember 1993\n Sep ?? - SPOT-3 Ariane Launch\n Sep ?? - Tubsat Launch\n Sep ?? - Seastar Pegasus Launch\n\nOctober 1993\n Oct ?? - Intelsat 7 F1 Ariane Launch\n Oct ?? - SLV-1 Pegasus Launch\n Oct ?? - Telstar 4 Atlas Launch\n Oct 01 - SeaWIFS Launch\n Oct 22 - Orionid Meteor Shower (Maximum: 00:00 UT, Solar Longitude\n 208.7 degrees)\n\nNovember 1993\n Nov ?? - Solidaridad/MOP-3 Ariane Launch\n Nov 03 - 20th Anniversary, Mariner 10 Launch (Mercury & Venus Flyby Mission)\n Nov 03 - S. Taurid Meteor Shower\n Nov 04 - Galileo Exits Asteroid Belt\n Nov 06 - Mercury Transits Across the Sun, Visible from Asia, Australia, and\n the South Pacific\n* Nov 08 - Mars Observer, Mapping Orbit Established\n Nov 10 - STS-60, Discovery, SPACEHAB-2\n Nov 13 - Partial Solar Eclipse, Visible from Southern Hemisphere\n Nov 15 - Wilhelm Herschel's 255th Birthday\n Nov 17 - Leonids Meteor Shower (Maximum: 13:00 UT, Solar Longitude\n 235.3 degrees)\n* Nov 22 - Mars Observer, Mapping Begins\n Nov 28-29 - Total Lunar Eclipse, Visible from North America & South America\n\nDecember 1993\n Dec ?? - GOES-I Atlas Launch\n Dec ?? - NATO 4B Delta Launch\n Dec ?? - TOMS Pegasus Launch\n Dec ?? - DirectTv 1 & Thiacom 1 Ariane Launch\n Dec ?? - ISTP Wind Delta-2 Launch\n Dec ?? - STEP-2 Pegasus Launch\n* Dec ?? - Soyuz TM-18 Launch (Soviet)\n Dec 02 - STS-61, Endeavour, Hubble Space Telescope Repair\n Dec 04 - SPEKTR-R Launch (Soviet)\n* Dec 05 - 20th Anniversary, Pioneer 10 Jupiter Flyby\n Dec 08 - Mars Observer, Mars Equinox\n Dec 14 - Geminids Meteor Shower (Maximum: 00:00 UT,\n Solar Longitude 262.1 degrees)\n Dec 20 - Mars Observer, Solar Conjunction Begins\n Dec 23 - Ursids Meteor Shower (Maximum: 01:00 UT,\n Solar Longitude 271.3 degrees)\n\nJanuary 1994\n Jan 03 - Mars Observer, End of Solar Conjunction\n Jan 24 - Clementine Titan IIG Launch (Lunar Orbiter, Asteroid Flyby Mission)\n\nFebruary 1994\n Feb ?? - SFU Launch\n Feb ?? - GMS-5 Launch\n Feb 05 - 20th Anniversary, Mariner 10 Venus Flyby\n Feb 08 - STS-62, Columbia, U.S. Microgravity Payload (USMP-2)\n Feb 15 - Galileo's 430th Birthday\n Feb 21 - Clementine, Lunar Orbit Insertion\n Feb 25 - 25th Anniversary, Mariner 6 Launch (Mars Flyby Mission)\n\nMarch 1994\n Mar ?? - TC-2C Launch\n Mar 05 - 15th Anniversary, Voyager 1 Jupiter flyby\n Mar 14 - Albert Einstein's 115th Birthday\n Mar 27 - 25th Anniversary, Mariner 7 Launch (Mars Flyby Mission)\n Mar 29 - 20th Anniversary, Mariner 10, 1st Mercury Flyby\n* Mar 31 - Galaxy 1R Delta 2 Launch", "Seems that the Mile-Long Billboard and any other inflateble space\nobject/station or what ever have the same problems. (other than being a little\nbit different than the \"normal\" space ideas, such as trusses and shuttles)\n\nBut also dag and such.. Why not combine the discussion of how and fesibility to\nthe same topic?\n\nI personnelly liek the idea of a billboard in space. But problem. How do you\nservice it? fly a shuttle/DC-1 to near it and then dismount and \"fly\" to it?\nOr what?? or havign a special docking section for shuttle/DC-1 docking?\n\nAlso what if the billboard springs a leak? Self sealing and such??\n\n\nJust thinking (okay rambling)..\n\nAlso why must the now inflated billboard, not be covered in the inside by a\nharder substance (such as a polymer or other agent) and then the now \"hard\"\nbillboard would be a now giant docking structure/space dock/station??", "\n\nBut I believe that there is a fundamental difference here. The other x\nthree instruments are focusing instruments, that, more or less, form\nan image, so positional errors are limited by craft attitude and the \nresolving power of the optics. BATSE is an altogether different\nbeast, effectively just 8 coincidence counters, one on each corner of \nthe craft. Positional information is triangulated from the \ndifferential signal arrival times at each of the detectors.\nPositional error would be predominantly determined by timing errors\nand errors in craft attitude. Since none of the 8 BASTE detectors have\nany independant angular resolution whatsoever, they can not be used to\ndetermine parallax. Indeed, parallax would just add a very small \ncomponent to the positional error. \n\nDemonstrating that these puppies are beyond the oort cloud would \nrequire resolution on the order of arcseconds, since the oort \ncloud is postulated to extend to about 0.5 parsec (all together \nnow: \"Parallax ARc SECond\", a parsec is the distance of an object \nthat demonstrates one arc second of parallax with a 2 AU base line).\nIf the 3 degree accuracy reported above is true, we're going to \nhave to add a BASTE to the pluto fast flyby to get enough baseline.\n\nThe beauty of BASTE is that it both gives positional information and\nwatches the entire sky simultaneously, a realy handy combination\nwhen you have no idea where the next burst is coming from.", "Here is a potentially dumb question: What prevents the martian landers\nthemselves from \"polluting\" the martian environment with earth based\ncritters? Is the long trip in cold radiation bathed space enough to\ncompletely sterilize the landers?\n\nI could imagine that a few teeny microbes could manage to get all the\nway there unharmed, and then possibly thrive given the right\ncircumstances.\n\n", "\nI'd hardly call the current Pluto Fast Flyby proposal \"too large\" (if the\nnew technology insertion currently taking place succeeds, the S/C mass will\ndrop to 110-120 kg) or \"too expensive\" ($400 million [FY92 $] for two S/C),\nespecially when compared to other NASA planetary missions.\n\n\nThis proposal would work only if your various targets are relaively nearby and\nthe require minimal delta-v from the mother ship. A mission to the main belt\nmight be one possibility for such a mission -- I recall a paper being presented\nat an AIAA deisgn conference in Irvine in February where such a proposed\nspacecraft was designed by some grad students at UT Austin (I think). Four\nmini-spacecraft would detatch from the main S/C, each visiting a seperate\nasteroid and then returning to the main S/C. After analysis, the main S/C\nwould then be targeted for the most \"interesting\" object for further study.\n\nNow, if I could only *find* that paper... =)\n\n", "Next GPS launch is scheduled for June 24th.", "SOmebody mentioned a re-boost of HST during this mission, meaning\nthat Weight is a very tight margin on this mission.\n\nHow will said re-boost be done?\n\nGrapple, HST, stow it in Cargo bay, do OMS burn to high altitude, \n\nunstow HST, repair gyros, costar install, fix solar arrays,\n\nthen return to earth?\n\nMy guess is why bother with usingthe shuttle to reboost?\n\nwhy not grapple, do all said fixes, bolt a small liquid fueled\nthruster module to HST, then let it make the re-boost. it has to be\ncheaper on mass then usingthe shuttle as a tug. that way, now that\nthey are going to need at least 5 spacewalks, then they can carry\nan EDO pallet, and sit on station and even maybe do the solar array\ntilt motor fix.", "\nYou're assuming that their normal rotation carries all areas of the surface\ninto sunlight. Not so. Even on Earth, each pole gets several weeks without\nsunlight in mid-winter. Pluto and Charon have much more extreme axial\ntilt and a much longer orbit. Pluto's north pole, for example, gets over\na century of darkness followed by over a century of perpetual light.\n\nAt the moment, we're in luck -- Pluto and Charon are just past their\nequinox, when the Sun was just on the horizon at both poles (of each).\nIf we get probes there soon, only the immediate vicinity of one pole\n(on each) will be in long-term shadow. This will get steadily worse the\nlonger we wait.", "\nNot true. Only an observer at rest at infinite distance from the black hole\nwill see the particle take infinite time to reach the horizon. In the\nparticle's own reference frame, it takes a very finite time to reach the\nhorizon and the singularity. The math does indeed predict this. Take a look\nat Mitchner, Thorne, and Wheeler's _Gravitation_.\n\nPeter Walker", "\n\nUh, no. These burst detectors are just that, burst detectors.\nThey have no angular resolution.\n\nNow a network of burst detectors could have angular resolution,\nbut we do not have a decent set of different networks at the distances\nneccesary from each other to determine if they're happening in the oort\ncloud or not.\n\nWe have one network, and trying to make two networks out of it\ndegrades what angular resolution we have.", "\n\nThe company was probably \"Public Missiles, Inc\" of Michigan.\n\n\nYup.\n\n\nNope, it's not illegal. It is, however, closely regulated. In order to \npurchase and use the big rocket motors required, it is necessary to be\none of the following:\na) An employee of a government agency.\nb) An employee or student at a university doing research involving rockets.\nc) A member or representative of an educational organization involved in\nresearch or other uses of rockets. There are two such organizations: \nThe Tripoli Rocketry Association and the National Association of Rocketry.\nMembers of either organization must demonstrate proficiency in construction\nand flight before they are allowed to purchase large motors on their own.\n\nThe FAA will issue a waiver of its regulations, upon request, to any \norganization which can persuade them it has taken adequate precautions \nto avoid conflicts with aircraft. The usual stipulations are:\n- Only operation up to a specified ceiling is allowed. Depending on the\nlocation, this ceiling may be from 5000 to 50000 feet AGL. \n- The operator of the rocket is responsible for avoiding any aircraft\nwithin the operating radius around the launch site.\n- Flight into clouds or beyond visual range in haze is expressly prohibited.\n- The FAA will provide a NOTAM informing other users of the airspace that\nunmanned rocket operations are taking place at the specified place and time.\n\nMost of the launches that are held (and there are dozens of them every year)\nare held in areas where air traffic is relatively light, such as over the\nwestern deserts (the Black Rock Desert north of Reno is particularly popular\nsince it is 25 x 150 miles of *nothing to hit* on the ground).\n\nThe two rocketry associations test and approve motors for their members'\nuse, to insure safety. Depending on motor size, the launcher setback is\nfrom 50 to 500 or more feet. \n\nBy the way, rockets under 1 lb and powered by an \"F\" motor are exempt from\nmost Federal regulations on unmanned rockets anyway. See FAR 101, Subpart\nC, for details.\n\nAs for recovery...although the higher altitude rockets can reach up to\n50,000 feet, most of them only get to 2,000 to 5,000 feet. The typical\nrocket is 2 to 6 inches in diameter, and carries a 3 to 6 foot parachute,\nor multiple parachutes, depending on the payload. Many rockets also carry\neither a small transmitter or an audio sounder--particularly at launches\nin the eastern US, where there are more obstructions.\n\nCamera, telemetry transmitter, and video payloads are becoming quite common.\n\n\nWhy not? It's a lot of fun...check out the traffic on rec.models.rockets\nfor information about the model (3 lb and under) and high power (everything\nbigger) rocket hobbies. As with all dangerous activities, the key is to\npractice safety. I've been flying consumer rockets ranging up to 4-5 lbs\ntakeoff weight for 27 years, and still have all my extremities intact.\n\n\nThat's another thing. NO EXPLOSIVE WARHEADS OF ANY KIND ARE ALLOWED ON THESE\nROCKETS. NONE! Please forgive me for shouting, but that's one of the biggest\nmisconceptions people have about our hobby. \n\nTrue. But it will not be related to the rocket hobby, unless I get \nhit while crossing a road with a rocket in my hand. ", "\n\nWell, we already suffer from street hoardings. If you don't\nwatch TV, you are free of commercials there, but if you want\nto go from A to B you cannot escape beer ads.\n\n\nI think the right time to stop this proposal is now.\n\nIf this idea goes through, it's the thin end of the wedge. Soon\ncompanies will be doing larger, and more permanant, billboards in the\nsky. I wouldn't want a world a few decades from now when the sky\nlooks like Las Vegas. That would _really_ make me sad.\n\nCoca Cola company will want to paint the moon red and white. (Well,\nif not this moon, then a moon of Jupiter). Microscum will want to\nname a galaxy `Microscum Galaxy'. Where do we draw the line?\nHistorically mankind is not very good at drawing fine lines.\n\nI'm normally extremely enthusiastic about all forms of resource\nallocation for space research; I think it's the most important\ninvestment possible for mankind in the long run. But this is not\nthe way to get the money.\n\n -ans.", "-| I am taking a course entitled \"Exploring Science Using Internet\".\n-| For our final project, we are to find a compendium of Internet resources \n-| dealing with a science-related topic. I chose Astronomy. Anyway, I was \n-| wondering if anyone out there knew of any interesting resources on Internet\n-| that provide information on Astronomy, space, NASA, or anything like that.\n-| \n-| THANKS!\n-| \n-| KEITH MALINOWSKI\n-| STK1203@VAX003.Stockton.EDU\n-| P.O. Box 2472\n-| Stockton State College\n-| Pomona, New Jersey 08240\n\nTry doing a keyword search under Gopher using Veronica or accessing a \nWorld Wide Web server. Also finger yanoff@csd4.csd.uwm.edu for a list\nof Internet resources which includes 2-3 sites with Space-specific \ninformation. I am sure Ron Baalke will have told you about what is\navailable at JPL etc..\n\n\tbest regards\n\t\tAta <(|)>.", "\n\names.arc.nasa.gov not sure what subdirectory thou..\n\n==\nMichael Adams, nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu -- I'm not high, just jacked", "\n\nHST is about 25,500 lbs (11,600 kg). That doesn't include the cradle that\nwould have been in the cargo bay when it was deployed. Spacelab-J on STS-47\nwas 21,861 lbs (according to the press-kit). \n\nAs someone else pointed out if they had been unable to deploy it for some\nreason that would have had to land with it still in the cargo bay and this\nwas a planned for contingency. This is not a problem for the shuttle,\nthough it would eliminate KSC as a landing site, they still have to go to\nEdwards when landing with something like Spacelab in the cargo bay. \n\n--GaryM", "Wm Hathaway comments;\n\n\n\nI agree that the desire for beauty is valid, but I think your desire to\nimpose your vision of beauty is not. You mention the age-old desire to\nsomehow get up there, but ignore the beauty of the actual achievment\nof that vision. You mention the beauty of a very dark sky, not impeded\nby the effects of humans, but ignore the beauty of the as-dark-as-can-be\nsky that is only visible from space, a vision that we, or at least,\nour descendents, may one day be able to see, in part, because of efforts\nthat others call ugly. One day, I hope, humans will be able to look out,\nnot upon half the heavens, with only nature-creted lights, but upon all\nof the heavens, with no lights. If advertising in space can help us reach\nthat goal, it is no less beautiful for the way we reach it, than the\n'pristine' sky of yesteryear (or yester-century), which is totally\nunreachable. One of the original conceptions of beauty in wetsern\nsculpture was a human form, in the effort of striving to reach a goal.\nI don't think there's any reason to believe that modernity has changed that,\njust because it has changed the way we strive.\n\nBTW, there are places that people haven't fouled. Sometimes they make\nit better.\n\n-Tommy Mac\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTom McWilliams 517-355-2178 wk \\\\ As the radius of vision increases,\n18084tm@ibm.cl.msu.edu 336-9591 hm \\\\ the circumference of mystery grows.", "Why use a ground launch pad. It is entirely posible to launch from altitude.\nThis was what the Shuttle was originally intended to do! It might be seriously\ncheaper. \n\nAlso, what about bio-engineered CO2 absorbing plants instead of many LOX bottles?\nStick 'em in a lunar cave and put an airlock on the door.\n", "\nThe sightings were apparently spurious. There is no planet inside of\nthe orbit of Mercury.\n\nThe idea of Vulcan came from the differences between Mercury's observed\nperihelion precession and the value it should have had according to\nNewtonian physics. Leverrier made an extensive set of observations\nand calculations during the mid 19th century, and Simon Newcombe later\nimproved on the observations and re-calculated using Leverrier's system\nof equations. Now Leverrier was one of the co-discoverers of Neptune\nand since he had predicted its existence based on anomalies in the orbit\nof Uranus his inclination was to believe the same sort of thing was\nafoot with Mercury.\n\nBut alas, 'twere not so. Mercury's perihelion precesses at the rate\nit does because the space where it resides near the sun is significantly\ncurved due to the sun's mass. This explanation had to wait until 1915\nand Albert Einstein's synthesis of his earlier theory of the electrodynamics\nof moving bodies (commonly called Special Relativity) with Reimanian \ngeometry. The result was the General Theory of Relativity, and one of\nit's most noteworthy strengths is that it accounts for the precession\nof Mercury's perihelion almost exactly. (Exactly if you use Newcomb's\nnumbers rather than Leverrier's.)\n\nOf course not everybody believes Einstein, and that's fine. But subsequent\nefforts to find any planets closer to the sun than Mercury using radar\nhave been fruitless.\n\n-Bill Gawne\n\n \"Forgive him, he is a barbarian, who thinks the customs of his tribe\n are the laws of the universe.\" - G. J. Caesar", "Hmm. $1 billion, lesse... I can probably launch 100 tons to LEO at\n$200 million, in five years, which gives about 20 tons to the lunar\nsurface one-way. Say five tons of that is a return vehicle and its\nfuel, a bigger Mercury or something (might get that as low as two\ntons), leaving fifteen tons for a one-man habitat and a year's supplies?\nGee, with that sort of mass margins I can build the systems off\nthe shelf for about another hundred million tops. That leaves\nabout $700 million profit. I like this idea 8-) Let's see\nif you guys can push someone to make it happen 8-) 8-)\n\n[slightly seriously]", " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nWow! I knew Uranus is a long way off, but I didn't think it was THAT far away!\n", "How hard or easy would it be to have a combo mission such as a solar sail on\nthe way out to the outer planets, but once in near to orbit to use more normal\nmeans..\nSeems that everyone talks about using one system and one system only per\nmission, why not have more than one propulsion system? Or did I miss\nsomething.. ?? or did it die in committee?\n==\nMichael Adams, nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu -- I'm not high, just jacked\n\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\tGood for you. I am convinced that someone should start a boycott \nagainst GEICO. Any takers?\n\n\n\n", "\nIt was more than a theoretical concept; it was seriously pursued by\nFreeman Dyson et al many years ago. I don't know how well-known this is,\nbut a high explosive Orion prototype flew (in the atmosphere) in San\nDiego back in 1957 or 1958. I was working at General Atomic at the time,\nbut I didn't learn about the experiment until almost thirty years later,\nwhen \nTed Taylor visited us and revealed that it had been done. I feel sure\nthat someone must have film of that experiment, and I'd really like to\nsee it. Has anyone out there seen it?", "\nThis was known as *Journey to the Far Side of the Sun* in the United\nStates and as *Doppelganger* in the U.K. It was produced by the great\nteam of Gerry and Sylvia Anderson (whose science was usually a bit\nbetter than this). It may have been their first production using live\nactors-- they were better known for their technophilic puppet shows,\nsuch as *Supercar*, *Stingray*, and *Thunderbirds*. Later, they went\non to do more live-action SF series: *UFO* and *Space: 1999*.\n\nThe astronomy was lousy, but the lifting-body spacecraft, VTOL\nairliners, and mighty Portugese launch complex were *wonderful* to\nlook at.", "\n\nWhy would you want to do that? The goal is to do it cheaper (remember,\nthis isn't government). Instead of leasing an expensive launch pad,\njust use a SSTO and launch from a much cheaper facility.\n\n Allen\n", "\n\nWhy not design the solar arrays to be detachable. if the shuttle is going\nto retunr the HST, what bother are some arrays. just fit them with a quick release.\n\none space walk, or use the second canadarm to remove the arrays.", "Afraid I can't give any more info on this.. and hoping someone in greter\nNETLAND has some details.\n\nA short story in the newspaper a few days ago made some sort of mention\nabout how the Japanese, using what sounded like a gravity assist, had just\nmanaged to crash (or crash-land) a package on the moon.\n\nthe article was very vague and unclear. and, to make matters worse, I\ndidn't clip it.\n\ndoes this jog anyone's memory?\n", "\n\nAs an Amateur Radio operator (VHF 2metres) I like to keep up with what is \ngoing up (and for that matter what is coming down too).\n \nIn about 30 days I have learned ALOT about satellites current, future and \npast all the way back to Vanguard series and up to Astro D observatory \n(space). I borrowed a book from the library called Weater Satellites (I \nthink, it has a photo of the earth with a TIROS type satellite on it.)\n \nI would like to build a model or have a large color poster of one of the \nTIROS satellites I think there are places in the USA that sell them.\nITOS is my favorite looking satellite, followed by AmSat-OSCAR 13 \n(AO-13).\n \nTTYL\n73\nJim", "\nAny prize like this is going to need to be worded carefully enough that\nyou cannot get it without demonstrating sustained and reliable capability,\nrather than a lucky one-shot. It can be done.", "You have missed something. There is a big difference between being in\nthe SAME PLANE and in exactly the same state (positions and velocities\nequal). IN addition to this, there has always been redundancies proposed.\n\nBob\n--", "Thanks to the people who have answered here and in email to my \nquestion about which countries engage in space surveillance. \nUnfortunately, I apparently didn't make the meaning of the message \nclear, since most replies have addressed satellite reconnaissance, \nrather than space surveillance \n\n What I meant was _not_ which countries use satellites to look at \nthe Earth (satellite reconnaissance) , but _was_ which countries have \nprograms to detect and track (i.e., determine the orbital elements of) \nsatellites as they pass overhead (space surveillance). \n\n The US uses missile-defense radars, supplemented by a fascinating \nquasi-radar operated by the Navy, to do this for satellites in LEO, and \nelectrooptical systems for objects at altitudes above 5,000 km or so. \nThe FEE, I understand, does much the same thing. \n\n Amateur satellite observers use eyeballs, binoculars, stopwatches \nand PCs for objects out to around 1500 km, enabling them to keep track \nof satellites for which, ah, official element sets aren't available. \nSee the fascinating books by Desmond King-Hele for details, as well as \nthe files in the molczan directory on kilroy.jpl.nasa.gov. The \nmaterial posted in my previous message suggests that Japan engages in \noptical and radar space surveillance to a modest degree, and it may be \nthat other countries do also. \n\n Which was the question I meant to ask: who are they, how do they do \nit, and why do they do it?\n\n\nAllen Thomson SAIC McLean, VA", " One of the main reasons nations like the US and RUSSIA observe satellite\n that have been launched is FORBs system whick loft nuclear bombs into\n orbit which are planned to be detonated in LEO causing EMP pulses\n interfering with the target command and control system.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t \n", "We`ve had the the Great Western, the [ dunno ] and the Great Northern\npostulated as Brunel`s masterpiece. Keep boxing the compass chaps, you`ll\nget round to it eventually.\n\nThe Great Western was a highly successful transatlantic mail ship,\nwith hybrid sail and steam propulsion. The Great Eastern, which broke\nthe 'Little Giant' financially and otherwise, was a revolutionary leap\nforward in ship design. A thirty thousand ton all steel vessel, with\nprimary steam propulsion, it was at the time easily the biggest ocean\ngoing vessel ever built. Brunel took advantage of the fact that cargo\nand / or fuel capacity rose with the cube of scale, while drag rose\nwith the square, so a really big ship could steam thousands of miles\nwithout coaling.\n\nUnfortunately, there was no real market for such a beast at the time,\nand it was eventually sold off at scrap values. As another poster\nsaid, it then went on to a successful career as a telegraph cable\nlaying ship. It was in fact the only ship of its day capable of laying\na transatlantic cable in one go, with the endurance and capacity to\ncarry the huge reel all the way, and the manoeuverabilty to dredge for\ndefective sections. See Arthur C Clarke`s book \"How the World was One\"\n[ I think that`s right ]\n\nIf that`s how the Shuttle goes down in history, as a technical triumph\nand a financial disaster for the builder, it would not be entirely\nignoble, but I doubt if history will be so charitable. Its true the\nShuttle can do things no other launch system can do, but are they\nworth doing? With low cost access to space, you could have an\naffordable space station for doing shuttle-like extended manned\nmissions. As it is, the shuttle is not so much a space-truck as a\nspace-RV, ( only not so cheap to run :-( )", " I had to turn to one of my problem sets that I did in class for this\nlittle problem. I don't have a calculator, but I DO have the problem set that\nwe did not too long ago, so I'll use that, and hope it's what you wanted. \nThis is a highly simplified problem, with a very simple burst. Bursts are\nusually more complex than this example I will use here.\n Our burst has a peak flux of 5.43E-6 ergs cm^-2 sec^-1 and a duration\nof 8.95 seconds. During the frst second of the burst, and the last 4 seconds,\nits flux is half of the peak flux. It's flux is the peak flux the rest of the\ntime. Assume that the background flux is 10E-7 erg cm^-2 sec^-1.\n Then we had to find the integrated luminosity of the burst, for several\ndifferent spheres: R=.25pc(Oort Cloud Radius), R=22.5pc(at the edge of the\ngalaxy), R=183.5pc or the edge of the galactic corona, and lastly at a\nR=8800Mpc. \n We integrated the flux over all time to find the fluence, then used the\nold standby formula:\n Luminosity=4(pi)(r^2)Fpeak\n For a radius of .25 pc, we found an L around 10^32 erg/sec. Pretty\nenergetic for close by. for the coronal model, we found around 10^43 erg/sec.\nAnd lastly, for the cosmological model an L=10^53. That's what you'd call\nmoderately energetic, I'd say. Any suggestions about what could put out that\nmuch energy in one second? \n -jeremy\n\n\n\n", "\n\nIt's my understanding that the freezing will start to occur because of the\ngrowing distance of Pluto and Charon from the Sun, due to it's\nelliptical orbit. It is not due to shadowing effects. \n\n\nPluto can shadow Charon, and vice-versa.\n\nGeorge Krumins\n-- ", "Archive-name: space/intro\nLast-modified: $Date: 93/04/01 14:39:10 $\n\n FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ON SCI.SPACE/SCI.ASTRO\n\n INTRODUCTION\n\n This series of linked messages is periodically posted to the Usenet\ngroups sci.space and sci.astro in an attempt to provide good answers to\nfrequently asked questions and other reference material which is worth\npreserving. If you have corrections or answers to other frequently asked\nquestions that you would like included in this posting, send email to\nleech@cs.unc.edu (Jon Leech).\n\n If you don't want to see the FAQ, add 'Frequently Asked Questions' to\nyour KILL file for this group (if you're not reading this with a newsreader\nthat can kill articles by subject, you're out of luck).\n\n The FAQ volume is excessive right now and will hopefully be trimmed down\nby rewriting and condensing over time. The FAQ postings are available in\nthe Ames SPACE archive in FAQ/faq<#>.\n\n Good summaries will be accepted in place of the answers given here. The\npoint of this is to circulate existing information, and avoid rehashing old\nanswers. Better to build on top than start again. Nothing more depressing\nthan rehashing old topics for the 100th time. References are provided\nbecause they give more complete information than any short generalization.\n\n Questions fall into three basic types:\n\n 1) Where do I find some information about space?\n\n Try your local public library first. The net is not a good place to ask\n for general information. Ask INDIVIDUALS (by email) if you must. There\n are other sources, use them, too. The net is a place for open ended\n discussion.\n\n 2) I have an idea which would improve space flight?\n\n Hope you aren't surprised, but 9,999 out of 10,000 have usually been\n thought of before. Again, contact a direct individual source for\n evaluation. NASA fields thousands of these each day.\n\n 3) Miscellanous queries.\n\n These are addressed on a case-by-case basis in the following series of\n FAQ postings.\n\n\n SUGGESTIONS FOR BETTER NETIQUETTE\n\n Read news.announce.newusers if you're on Usenet.\n Minimize cross references, [Do you REALLY NEED to?]\n Edit \"Subject:\" lines, especially if you're taking a tangent.\n Send mail instead, avoid posting follow ups. (1 mail message worth\n\t100 posts).\n Internet mail readers: send requests to add/drop to SPACE-REQUEST\n\tnot SPACE.\n Read all available articles before posting a follow-up. (Check all\n\treferences.)\n Cut down attributed articles (leave only the points you're\n\tresponding to; remove signatures and headers). Summarize!\n Put a return address in the body (signature) of your message (mail\n\tor article), state your institution, etc. Don't assume the\n\t'reply' function of mailers will work.\n Use absolute dates. Post in a timely way. Don't post what everyone\n\twill get on TV anyway.\n Some editors and window systems do character count line wrapping:\n\tkeep lines under 80 characters for those using ASCII terminals\n\t(use carriage returns).\n\n\n INDEX TO LINKED POSTINGS\n\n I've attempted to break the postings up into related areas. There isn't\n a keyword index yet; the following lists the major subject areas in each\n posting. Only those containing astronomy-related material are posted to\n sci.astro (indicated by '*' following the posting number).\n\n #\tContents\n\n 1*\tIntroduction\n\t Suggestions for better netiquette\n\t Index to linked postings\n\t Notes on addresses, phone numbers, etc.\n\t Contributors\n\n 2*\tNetwork resources\n\t Overview\n\t Mailing lists\n\t Periodically updated information\n\t Warning about non-public networks\n\n 3*\tOnline (and some offline) sources of images, data, etc.\n\t Introduction\n\t Viewing Images\n\t Online Archives\n\t\tNASA Ames\n\t\tNASA Astrophysics Data System\n\t\tNASA Jet Propulsion Lab (Mission Information and Images)\n\t\tNASA Langley (Technical Reports)\n\t\tNASA Spacelink\n\t\tNational Space Science Data Center\n\t\tSpace Telescope Science Institute Electronic Info. Service\n\t\tStarcat\n\t\tAstronomical Databases\n\t\tAstronomy Programs\n\t\tOrbital Element Sets\n\t\tSPACE Digest\n\t Landsat & NASA Photos\n\t Planetary Maps\n\t Cometary Orbits\n\n 4*\tPerforming calculations and interpreting data formats\n\t Computing spacecraft orbits and trajectories\n\t Computing planetary positions\n\t Computing crater diameters from Earth-impacting asteroids\n\t Map projections and spherical trignometry\n\t Performing N-body simulations efficiently\n\t Interpreting the FITS image format\n\t Sky (Unix ephemeris program)\n\t Three-dimensional star/galaxy coordinates\n\n 5*\tReferences on specific areas\n\t Publishers of space/astronomy material\n\t Careers in the space industry\n\t DC-X single-stage to orbit (SSTO) program\n\t How to name a star after a person\n\t LLNL \"great exploration\"\n\t Lunar Prospector\n\t Lunar science and activities\n\t Orbiting Earth satellite histories\n\t Spacecraft models\n\t Rocket propulsion\n\t Spacecraft design\n\t Esoteric propulsion schemes (solar sails, lasers, fusion...)\n\t Spy satellites\n\t Space shuttle computer systems\n\t SETI computation (signal processing)\n\t Amateur satellies & weather satellites\n\t Tides\n\n 6*\tConstants and equations for calculations\n\n 7*\tAstronomical Mnemonics\n\n 8\tContacting NASA, ESA, and other space agencies/companies\n\t NASA Centers / Arianespace / ESA / NASDA / Soyuzkarta / Space\n\t\tCamp / Space Commerce Corporation / Spacehab / SPOT Image\n\t Other commercial space businesses\n\n 9\tSpace shuttle answers, launch schedules, TV coverage\n\t Shuttle launchings and landings; schedules and how to see them\n\t Why does the shuttle roll just after liftoff?\n\t How to receive the NASA TV channel, NASA SELECT\n\t Amateur radio frequencies for shuttle missions\n\t Solid Rocket Booster fuel composition\n\n 10\tPlanetary probes - Historical Missions\n\t US planetary missions\n\t Mariner (Venus, Mars, & Mercury flybys and orbiters)\n\t Pioneer (Moon, Sun, Venus, Jupiter, and Saturn flybys and orbiters)\n\t Ranger (Lunar lander and impact missions)\n\t Lunar Orbiter (Lunar surface photography)\n\t Surveyor (Lunar soft landers)\n\t Viking (Mars orbiters and landers)\n\t Voyager (Outer planet flybys)\n\t Soviet planetary missions\n\t Soviet Lunar probes\n\t Soviet Venus probes\n\t Soviet Mars probes\n\t Japanese planetary missions\n\t Planetary mission references\n\n 11\tUpcoming planetary probes - missions and schedules\n\t Cassini\n\t Galileo\n\t Magellan\n\t Mars Observer\n\t TOPEX/Poseidon\n\t Ulysses\n\t Other space science missions\n\t Proposed missions\n\n 12\tControversial questions\n\t What happened to the Saturn V plans\n\t Why data from space missions isn't immediately available\n\t Risks of nuclear (RTG) power sources for space probes\n\t Impact of the space shuttle on the ozone layer\n\t How long can a human live unprotected in space\n\t How the Challenger astronauts died\n\t Using the shuttle beyond Low Earth Orbit\n\t The \"Face on Mars\"\n\n 13\tSpace activist/interest/research groups and space publications\n\t Groups\n\t Publications\n\t Undocumented Groups\n\n 14\tHow to become an astronaut\n\n 15\tOrbital and Planetary Launch Services\n\n\n NOTES ON ADDRESSES, PHONE NUMBERS, ETC.\n\n Unless otherwise specified, telephone numbers, addresses, and so on are\n for the United States of America. Non-US readers should remember to add\n the country code for telephone calls, etc.\n\n\n CREDITS\n\n Eugene Miya started a series of linked FAQ postings some years ago which\n inspired (and was largely absorbed into) this set.\n\n Peter Yee and Ron Baalke have and continue to spend a lot of their own\n time setting up the SPACE archives at NASA Ames and forwarding official\n NASA announcements.\n\n Many other people have contributed material to this list in the form of\n old postings to sci.space and sci.astro which I've edited. Please let me\n know if corrections need to be made. Contributors I've managed to keep\n track of are:\n\n 0004847546@mcimail.com (Francis Reddy)\t- map projections\n ad038@yfn.ysu.edu (Steven Fisk)\t\t- publication refs.\n akerman@bill.phy.queensu.CA (Richard Akerman) - crater diameters\n alweigel@athena.mit.edu (Lisa Weigel)\t- SEDS info\n aoab314@emx.utexas.edu (Srinivas Bettadpur) - tides\n awpaeth@watcgl.waterloo.edu (Alan Wm Paeth) - map projections\n aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer)\t\t- Great Exploration\n baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)\t- planetary probe schedules\n bankst@rata.vuw.ac.nz (Timothy Banks)\t- map projections,\n\tvariable star analysis archive\n bern@uni-trier.de (Jochen Bern)\t\t- German mnemonic translation\n brosen@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (Bernie Rosen)\t- Space Camp\n bschlesinger@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov (Barry Schlesinger) - FITS format\n cew@venera.isi.edu (Craig E. Ward)\t\t- space group contact info\n chapin@cbnewsc.att.com (Tom Chapin)\t\t- planetary positions\n cunnida@tenet.edu (D. Alan Cunningham)\t- NASA Spacelink\n cyamamot@kilroy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Cliff Yamamoto) - orbital elements\n datri@convex.com (Anthony Datri)\t\t- PDS/VICAR viewing software\n daver@sjc.mentorg.com (Dave Rickel)\t\t- orbit formulae\n dlbres10@pc.usl.edu (Phil Fraering)\t\t- propulsion\n eder@hsvaic.boeing.com (Dani Eder)\t\t- Saturn V plans, SRBs\n eugene@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)\t- introduction,\n\tNASA contact info, started FAQ postings\n french@isu.isunet.edu (Patrick M. French)\t- space group contact info\n g@telesoft.com (Gary Morris)\t\t- amateur radio info\n gaetz@cfa.harvard.edu (Terry Gaetz)\t\t- N-body calculations,\n\torbital dynamics\n grandi@noao.edu (Steve Grandi)\t\t- planetary positions\n greer%utd201.dnet%utadnx@utspan.span.nasa.gov (Dale M. Greer) - constants\n henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)\t- survival in vacuum,\n\tastronaut how-to, Challenger disaster, publication refs, DC-X\n higgins@fnal.bitnet (William Higgins)\t- RTGs, publishers,\n\tshuttle landings, spysats, propulsion, \"Face on Mars\"\n hmueller@cssun.tamu.edu (Hal Mueller)\t- map projections,\n\torbital dynamics\n jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh Hopkins)\t- launch services\n jim@pnet01.cts.com (Jim Bowery)\t\t- propulsion, launch services\n jnhead@pirl.lpl.arizona.edu (James N. Head) - atmospheric scale heights\n jscotti@lpl.arizona.edu (Jim Scotti)\t- planetary positions\n kcarroll@zoo.toronto.edu (Kieran A. Carroll)- refs for spacecraft design\n ken@orion.bitnet (Kenneth Ng)\t\t- RTGs\n kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (Ken Jenks)\t- shuttle roll manuever\n klaes@verga.enet.dec.com (Larry Klaes)\t- planetary probe history\n leech@cs.unc.edu (Jon Leech)\t\t- crater diameters\n lfa@ssi.com (Lou Adornato)\t\t\t- orbital dynamics\n maury.markowitz@egsgate.fidonet.org (Maury Markowitz) - propulsion\n max@west.darkside.com (Erik Max Francis)\t- equations\n mbellon@mcdurb.Urbana.Gould.COM\t\t- N-body calculations\n mcconley@phoenix.Princeton.edu (Marc Wayne Mcconley) - space careers\n msb@sq.com (Mark Brader)\t\t\t- Mariner 1 info.\n mwm@cmu.edu (Mark Maimone)\t\t\t- SPACE Digest\n nickw@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Dr. Nick Watkins)\t- models, spysats\n ohainaut@eso.org (Olivier R. Hainaut)\t- publishers, STARCAT\n oneil@aio.jsc.nasa.gov (Graham O'Neil)\t- Lunar Prospector\n panama@cup.portal.com (Kenneth W Durham)\t- cometary orbits, IAU\n paul.blase@nss.fidonet.org (Paul Blase)\t- propulsion\n pjs@plato.jpl.nasa.gov (Peter Scott)\t- RTGs\n pschleck@unomaha.edu (Paul W. Schleck)\t- AMSAT, ARRL contact info\n rdb@mel.cocam.oz.au (Rodney Brown)\t\t- propulsion refs\n rja7m@phil.cs.virginia.edu (Ran Atkinson)\t- FTPable astro. programs\n rjungcla@ihlpb.att.com (R. Michael Jungclas)- models\n roelle@sigi.jhuapl.edu (Curt Roelle)\t- German mnemonic translation\n seal@leonardo.jpl.nasa.gov (David Seal)\t- Cassini mission schedule\n shafer@skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer)\t- photos, shuttle landings\n smith@sndpit.enet.dec.com (Willie Smith)\t- photos\n stephen@gpwd.gp.co.nz (Stephen Dixon)\t- shuttle audio frequencies\n sterner@warper.jhuapl.edu (Ray Sterner)\t- planetary positions\n stooke@vaxr.sscl.uwo.ca (Phil Stooke)\t- planetary maps\n ted_anderson@transarc.com (Ted Anderson)\t- propulsion\n terry@astro.as.utexas.edu (Terry Hancock)\t- NASA center info\n thorson@typhoon.atmos.coloState.edu (Bill Thorson) - FITS info\n tm2b+@andrew.cmu.edu (Todd L. Masco)\t- SPACE Digest\n tom@ssd.csd.harris.com (Tom Horsley)\t- refs for algorithms\n veikko.makela@helsinki.fi (Veikko Makela)\t- orbital element sets\n Wales.Larrison@ofa123.fidonet.org (Wales Larrison) - groups & publications\n wayne@csri.utoronto.ca (Wayne Hayes)\t- constants\n weemba@libra.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) - Voyager history\n yamada@yscvax.ysc.go.jp (Yoshiro Yamada)\t- ISAS/NASDA missions\n yee@ames.arc.nasa.gov (Peter Yee)\t\t- AMES archive server,\n\tpropulsion\n\n In Net memoriam:\n\tTed Flinn", ";From the article \"What's New\" Apr-16-93 in sci.physics.research:\n;\n;........\n;WHAT'S NEW (in my opinion), Friday, 16 April 1993 Washington, DC\n;\n;1. SPACE BILLBOARDS! IS THIS ONE THE \"SPINOFFS\" WE WERE PROMISED?\n;What about light pollution in observations? (I read somewhere else that\n;it might even be visible during the day, leave alone at night).\n;Is NASA really supporting this junk?\n;Are protesting groups being organized in the States?\n;Really, really depressed.\n;\n; Enzo\n\nI wouldn't worry about it. There's enough space debris up there that\na mile-long inflatable would probably deflate in some very short\nperiod of time (less than a year) while cleaning up LEO somewhat.\nSort of a giant fly-paper in orbit.\n\nHmm, that could actually be useful.\n\nAs for advertising -- sure, why not? A NASA friend and I spent one\ndrunken night figuring out just exactly how much gold mylar we'd need\nto put the golden arches of a certain American fast food organization\non the face of the Moon. Fortunately, we sobered up in the morning.", "\n\n > be the site of major commercial activity. As far as we know it has no\n > materials we can't get cheaper right here on Earth or from asteroids\n > and comets, aside from the semi-mythic He3 that *might* be useful in low\n > grade fusion reactors.\n\n problem with 3He (aside from the difficulty in making any fusion\n reactor work) is that its concentration in lunar regolith is just so\n small -- on the order of 5 ppb or so, on average (more in some\n\n This thread reminds me of Wingo's claims some time ago about the moon\n as a source of titanium for use on earth. As I recall, Wingo wasn't\n ...\n even 1% of the basalts are 5% TiO2, this is trillions of tons of TiO2\n at concentrations only a factor of 2-3 less than in lunar high-Ti\n basalts. It is difficult to see how the disadvantages of the moon\n could be overcome by such a small increase the concentration of the\n ore (never mind the richer, but less common, terrestrial ores being\n mined today).\n\nWhy Paul, it's obvious.\nOnce chlorine chemistry has been banned on Earth,\nas is being advocated by some groups, Ti prices will\nsharply increase (we are of course not allowed to\nassume any developments in Ti processing).\nLunar Ti will then be eminently competitive for\nthe trendy jewelry market and certain applications\nof National Importance \n\n:-) :-) :-) \n\n\n(oops, this is sci.space... wrong rules of debate ;-)\n\n\nSeriously, I'd say there is a flaw in Gary's analysis\nin that he assumes an export oriented economy, maybe\nthe lunatics will just want some native Ti for local\nuse... as to why Lunar natives are cost effective, \nanalysis has shown they will be critical in providing\na sheltered manufacturing base, technological innovation,\ncritical materials and manpower in the war between\nthe Allies and Central Powers in about two hundred years...\n\n;-)", "Sunlight shining off of the ocean.\n\n", "\n\n\nAccording to my *Glossary of Astronomy and Astrophysics*:\n\"parsec (abbreviation for parallax second) \tThe distance at which\none astronomical unit subtends an angle of 1 second of arc. 1 pc =\n206,265 AU = 3.086 X 10^13 km = 3.26 lt-yr.\"\n\nGeorge", "\nIs it not also an abomination that somebody would spend money on \"space \nadvertising\" when those children are starving? Perhaps some redistribution\nof wealth would help them ...", "\nHow is it ever going to be an Off- the Shelf Technology if someone doesn't\ndo it? Maybe we should do this as part of the SSF design goals. ;-)\n\nGee fred. After your bitter defense of 20 KHz power as a Basic technology\nfor SSF, Id think you would support a minor research program like this.\n\nAnd does anyone who knows more Particle physics then me, know if the IPNS\ncould Prove this technology?\n", "\nThe \"artist renderings\" that I've seen of the HST reboost still have\nthe arrays fully extended, with a cradle holding HST at a ~30 degree\nangle to the Shuttle. I think the rendering was conceived before the\narray replacemnet was approved, so I'm not sure if the current reboost\nwill occur with the arrays deployed or not. However, it doesn't \nappear that an array retraction was necessary for reboost.\n\nThanks for the input on GRO's S/A design constraints. That would \nexplain the similar design on UARS.\n\n\nHeck, the MMS project used to design _missions_ with servicing in mind.\nThe XTE spacecraft was originally designed as an on-orbit replacement\nfor the instrument module on EUVE. That way, you get two instruments\nfor the price of one spacecraft bus (the Explorer Platform). A \nsecond on-orbit replacement was also considered, with the FUSE telescope.\n", "\n: I love the idea of an inflatable 1-mile long sign.... It will be a\n: really neat thing to see it explode when a bolt (or even better, a\n: Westford Needle!) comes crashing into it at 10 clicks a sec. \n\n: Whooooooooshhhhhh...... \n\n: \n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nJust a thought... (let's pretend it IS INFLATED and PRESSURIZED) wouldn't\nthere be a large static electricity build up around the puncture?\nIf the metalization is behind a clear sandwich (ie. insulated) then the \ndeflating balloon would generate electrical interference - \"noise\"\n\nBy the way, any serious high velocity impact would simply cut a \"Bugs\nBunny\" hole through the wall, highly unlikely to \"BOOM\", and the fabric\nwould almost certainly be ripstop.\n", "\n\nWhy must it be a US Government Space Launch Pad? Directly I mean..\nI know of a few that could launch a small package into space.\nNot including Ariadne, and the Russian Sites.. I know \"Poker Flats\" here in\nAlaska, thou used to be only sounding rockets for Auroral Borealous(sp and\nother northern atmospheric items, is at last I heard being upgraded to be able\nto put sattelites into orbit. \n\nWhy must people in the US be fixed on using NASAs direct resources (Poker Flats\nis runin part by NASA, but also by the Univesity of Alaska, and the Geophysical\nInstitute). Sounds like typical US cultural centralism and protectionism..\nAnd people wonder why we have the multi-trillion dollar deficite(sp).\nYes, I am working on a spell checker..", "Reply address: mark.prado@permanet.org\n\n > From: higgins@fnalf.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey)\n >\n > In article <1993Apr19.230236.18227@aio.jsc.nasa.gov>,\n > > |> AW&ST had a brief blurb on a Manned Lunar Exploration\n > confernce> |> May 7th at Crystal City Virginia, under the\n > auspices of AIAA.\n >\n > Thanks for typing that in, Steven.\n >\n > I hope you decide to go, Pat. The Net can use some eyes\n > and ears there...\n\nI plan to go. It's about 30 minutes away from my home.\nI can report on some of it (from my perspective ...)\nAnyone else on sci.space going to be there? If so, send me\nnetmail. Maybe we can plan to cross paths briefly...\nI'll maintain a list of who's going.\n\nmark.prado@permanet.org", "One week to the Robot Olympic games. Fire up the mechanoids for combat\nand come on down.\n\nCompetitors please note that there has been a slight change; the registration\ndesk will now be in the forward building of the Science Centre rather than\nin the main competing hall. When you arrive, please go to this desk. Those\nthat have pre-registered by real-mail will find badges waiting.\n\nIs all. See you here.\n\n", "\nWouldn't bother me. I'd laugh. It wouldn't work -- the surface of the\nMoon is *already* pretty dark, and the contrast would be so poor you\ncouldn't possibly see it. The only reason the Moon looks bright is that\nit's in bright sunlight against an otherwise-dark sky. Evidently Heinlein\ndidn't know that...", "dps@nasa.kodak.com Pontificated: \n\nCan you cite an example of this. Please post an answer as I\ndon't want to receive e-mail. \n", null ], "marker": { "opacity": 0.5, "size": 5 }, "mode": "markers+text", "name": "5_the_of_space", "text": [ "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", 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"dtype": "f4" } }, { "hoverinfo": "text", "hovertext": [ "\nQualcomm had spare cycles in the DSPs for their new CDMA digital\ncellular phones. They wanted to put strong crypto into them since they\nhad the capacity. The government decided to \"discourage\" them.\n\nReally, none of this stuff is especially hard. All you need for a true\nprivate phone is an ISDN codec, a vocoder (either a chip or\nsoftware), an encryptor (a chip is fine, but software is more than\nfast enough), a V.32 or V.32bis modem module, and maybe a\nmicrocontroller to run the whole thing. Its easy to do, its cheap. And\nany \"normal\" company trying to put one out will likely get a visit\nfrom the boys in the dark suits from Washington, just like Qualcomm\ndid. I suspect that companies like Cylink are tolerated because their\nproducts are too expensive.\n\nHowever, no law yet stops one from building really private phones, in\nspite of the hints the administration has made when discussing the new\n\"crime bill\" and in connection with the Clipper/Skipjack Big Brother\nchip. Someone out there WILL build a unit to do all this. Better yet,\nprehaps someone will produce a package that turns any 486 box with a\nsound card into a secure phone.\n\n--\nPerry Metzger\t\tpmetzger@shearson.com", "There's been some discussion very recently as to whether the\ngovernment once again might exempt themselves from something they use\nto screw us over... Well, from comp.dcom.telecom:\n\nFrom: lesreeves@attmail.com\nSubject: Odds 'n Ends in the News\n\n* The Clipper Chip device introduced yesterday by AT&T may not be\nsuitable for government use, says House Telecom Subcommittee Chairman\nMarkey. In a letter to Commerce Secretary Brown, Markey asked whether\nthe use of the technology could lead to \"inadvertently increased costs\nto those U.S. companies hoping to serve both\" the government and\nprivate markets. Markey has ordered Brown to answer several questions\nabout security and cost concerns by April 28. (Communications Daily,\n4/20/93)", "You mena in the same way french intelliegence agents steal\ndocuments from US corporate executives?", "...\n: We would like to keep it that way. Thats the point. By reacting\n: strongly and forcefully now, we will assure that we continue to remain\n: free. You cannot overreact to a threat like this. The worst that\n: happens if we overreact is that we waste time and effort. The worst that\n: happens if we underreact is tyranny. I prefer overreaction myself.\n....\n: Only through centuries of overreaction have we managed to maintain\n: ourselves in this state of even moderate freedom. I suggest that\n: overreacting now and in the future is a good thing.\n\nPerry is right on target here. Careful analysis of the Clipper Chip\nannouncement reveals that is *not* likely to remain \"voluntary\" for\nvery long...the cost of the system, the cost of generating and _then\nstoring_ the escrow keys, and the admitted security holes pretty much\nmake the ClipperPhone a loser.\n\nStrong crypto will outcompete it, if strong crypto is allowed. This is\nthe battle we face.\n\nWe had rumblings of this totalitarian key registration thing a while\nback, and now the other shoe has dropped. The firestorm of commentary\nand criticism this time around reveals the almost immediate revulsion\nthis Wiretap Chip (and automatic Caller ID and Callee ID, don't\nforget!) generates in everyone, or almost everyone, who hears about\nit.\n\nThis is a battle we can't afford to lose.\n\n\n-Tim May\n\n", "\n > :Thousands? Tens of thousands? Do some arithmetic, please... Skipjack\n > :has 2^80 possible keys.\n > \n > We don't yet know if all 80 bits count.\n\n That doesn't worry me at all; they're not going to cheat at something\n they can get caught at. And key size is one of the things that can be\n verified externally. Feed lots of random key/input pairs into the\n chip, then try flipping random key bits, and see what happens to the\n output. We already know what *should* happen -- about half the output\n bits should vary, on average, from a 1-bit key change or input change.\n\n If they were out to build a weak cryptosystem, it might be the case that\n some of the bits are much less powerful than others, in the sense that\n they only enter into the encryption very late in the game. By contrast,\n DES was designed to use each key bit as early as possible; the 50% output\n change rate appears as early as round 5. Again, though, I don't think\n NSA is going to cheat that crudely; they're likely to get caught.\n\nConsider a cryptosytem that starts out by XORing bits 23 and 47, and\nnot using either of these bits except through this XOR. This system\nmakes early use of every bit. but an exhaustive key search would now\nonly have 2^79 keys to search. Your test by varying single key bits\nwouldn't turn up anything interesting.\n\n Remember that they've promised to let a committee of outside experts see\n the cryptosystem design. If you assume something DES-like, a biased\n subkey generation schedule will stick out like a sore thumb.\n\nThe algorithm I suggest above would stick out like a sore thumb, but\nI'm sure I could design a system with a more subtle key redundancy\nwhich was well-hidden, but would still make an exhaustive key search\ntake far less than 2^80 encryptions. I don't believe your claim that\nthe real keysize can be verified externally.", ": \n: As a private citizen, I would feel much more \"secure in my person and\n: papers\" knowing that an organization committed to individual civil\n: liberties- the ACLU and the NRA come to mind- was safeguarding half of\n: my key. Both the ACLU and the NRA are resistent to government pressure\n: by the simple expedient fact that they are not supported, funded, or\n: overtly controlled by the government.\n: --------------------------\nThats one problem that has so far been overlooked. These two escrow\nagencies will have to create a secure database and service the\ninput and output of Keys. Who pays for this? If they refuse an\nillegal request from some congressman to deliver a key can their\nbudget by cut to punish them? Will congress be forced to fund\nthem forever?\n\nThe problem is that laws can change. Congress may pass a law setting\nup an escrow agency with instructions that keys are private. Some\nfuture congress may change that law. Suppose pre-nazi Germany had\na clipper system. Do you think the escrow agencies would have\ntold Hitler that he could not have the keys without a valid \ncourt order?\n\nIn effect you must set up escrow agencies as a fourth branch of\nthe goverment and isolate them from any outside interferance. \nThey will be able to directly tap into Federal funds with no\naccountability to anyone except through a court challenge.", "\nI believe it is illegal to send any cryptographic code out of the country\nwithout an export license. (Others will correct me if this is inaccurate.)\n\nDunno if you'd get one for the particular code you have; the only way to\nfind out is to apply for a license.\n\nNote that you need to distinguish between what is legal to send to Canada if\nYOU have such a license, and what is legal to send if you don't.\n", "\nThat sounds like an old _Dragnet_ episode.\n\n \"Joe and I went to the apartment of Prime Suspect. Nobody answered the\n door, but his landlord gave us permission to search the apartment.\"\n\nPerhaps that worked in California in the 60's, but as I understand the\nlaw landlords do _not_ have authority to grant permission to search space\nrented by a third party, provided the lease is not in default, etc.\n(I'm not even sure if they can provide the master key, when shown a search\nwarrant, since the _subject_ of the search is supposed to be notified).\n\nAt this point the question becomes: did the user \"rent\" the disk space\nher encrypted file occupies? If she did, it _should_ fall under the same\nbody of case law that applies to apartments, storage lockers, etc. (As\nto whether any court would recognize this fact....) If she did not (i.e.,\nno compensation exchanged), I don't know how it would be treated -- there\ndoesn't seem to be a non-cyberspace equivalent.\n", "Fascinating. Most of the content of the White House announcements was\nin what was *not* said. It gives us almost nothing of value, threatens to\ntake away a lot, and does it with a sincere smile on its face,\nand the nice friendly word \"Management\".\n\n\t\t\t FACT SHEET\n\t\t PUBLIC ENCRYPTION MANAGEMENT\n\nThe first thing it doesn't say is \"We're giving you stronger encryption\".\nwhat it says is \n the U. S. Government has developed a microcircuit that not only\n provides privacy through encryption that is substantially more robust\n than the current government standard, but also permits escrowing of\n the keys needed to unlock the encryption. The system for the\n escrowing of keys will allow the government to gain access to\n encrypted information only with appropriate legal authorization.\nBut DES is strong enough that only the government can break it now,\nso the major effect is to make it EASIER for government to break!\n*At best* it makes it more difficult for the NSA to break, since they\nneed to get one of the two escrowed keys to do a brute-force search\nfor the other 40-bit key.\n\nSimilarly, it didn't say \"We're making encryption is commercially available.\"\nbecause encryption *is* already commercially available, including\nforms the NSA may not be able to break, like triple-DES or IDEA.\nAnd phone companies could offer DES-based systems *now* if they were\nconvinced the government would let them and they could make enough money.\n\nThe next thing it didn't say is \"We're making encryption legal\",\nbecause of course encryption *has always been* legal, and the\nPresident can't change the First Amendment merely by decree.\nWhat it *did* say was:\n\tIn making this decision, I do not intend to prevent the\n\tprivate sector from developing, or the government from approving,\n\tother microcircuits or algorithms that are equally effective in\n\tassuring both privacy and a secure key- escrow system.\nwhich clearly means \"We're making encryption illegal unless we get your keys.\nSoon. Once business buys into this.\"\n\nAnother thing it didn't say is \"We're going to ask Congress for money\nto do *lots* more wiretapping\", because of course, there's a budget crisis,\nand Congress might debate the policy issues or not give them the cash.\nWhat it *did* say was:\n The Attorney General will procure and utilize encryption devices to\n the extent needed to preserve the government's ability to conduct\n lawful electronic surveillance and to fulfill the need for secure\n law enforcement communications. Further, the Attorney General\n shall utilize funds from the Department of Justice Asset Forfeiture\n Super Surplus Fund to effect this purchase.\nwhich means \"We've got money Congress can't control and we're going to\nbuy lots of wiretapping equipment with it to detect NON-APPROVED CRYPTO\n(that's what \"preserve the government's ability to conduct ... surveillance\" \nmeans.) ", " (good point about registration schemes being used only for harassment deleted)\n\n I would also like to point out that this is receiving stolen property and is \nno different than a pawn shop owner doing the same thing. \n ", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nI'm glad to see this idea come up because I've had something similar in mind.\nWhat if you had an authorization key that computed from the name and address \ndata. When the user registers, you don't even need to send executable code, \njust compute his/her key and send him/her instructions to enter in the \nappropriate place the following:\n\nName=Joe Doe\nAddress=123 Main Street\nCity=Anytown, CA\nkey=ldslfoialsdkcdsngsikhsfd", "[...]\n\nIf they're planning on patenting an algorithm, then I hope they go out of\nbusiness as quickly as possible. And you can tell them I said that.\n\nI'm sure many other readers of these newsgroups will agree, too.\n", "Besides being an infringement on our civil liberties (not the subject\nin this post), the name \"Clipper Chip\" seems very confusable with the\n\"Clipper\" chip of Intergraph.\n\nOriginally designed by a team at Fairchild Semiconductor, Clipper was\na 32-bit RISC microprocessor. It is still used in some workstations,\nnotably those from Intergraph, the supplier of CAD tools. Intergraph\nacquired the Clipper product line when Fairchild was sold to National\nSemiconductor several years back.\n\nWhen I first saw \"Clipper Chip\" in the announcement, I immediately\nthought the article was referring to the Clipper chip I know.\n\nThis seems to be grounds for Intergraph to sue, but then I'm not a\nlawyer. I'd say I'm a cryptologist, but I don't want to incriminate\nmyself under the laws of the new regime.\n\n-Tim May\n\n", "\nMotorola certainly makes them, but I don't know how you\nwould go about buying one. You'd probably have to buy one\nof our secure radios. \n\nYou could also bring in encryption chips from outside the country.\n", "\n\nNice to think, but naive. The fact is that millions of people today\nare sending highly confidential information over unencoded, easy to\nreceive cellular phones. They figure the chances of being heard are\nsmall, so they risk it.\n\nAnd 99.9% of people don't understand crypto the way the least of the\nsci.crypt newbies does. If Clinton tells them it's good crypto,\nthey'll believe him, and send important stuff over it, and be thankful\nthat they're no longer using clear-voice FM cellular phones.\n\nOnly a tiny fraction of people will want more crypto. Worse, in the\neyes of the government, which swears up and down the algorithim is\nspook-level secure (and it may indeed be) the only reason you could\npossibly want this extra level is to avoid police.\n\nBy using it, you'll attract attention as a likely lawbreaker.\n\n\"Your honour, the suspect suddenly started using another level of\ncryptography and we can't tap his phone calls any more. He must\nhave something to hide. Please sign the warrant to search his\nhouse...\"", "\nLegal or not, I've seen it done. Phone records were obtained\nin order to *establish* probable cause, rather than as a result of it.\nIn other words, for a fishing expedition.\n\n \n\nAnd does the phone company require written, subpoena-able evidence\nof probable cause in order to process the request? I suggest that\nthe officer was disinterested in pursuing your case -- even if you\ncould prove the offender had called you at a certain time, your \nchances of winning a harassment suit on the strength of this evidence\nare nil. My contact with several people who have dealt with cases\nof extreme phone harassment (several thousand calls in one case) teaches \nme that police in this area are quite lethargic about pursuing such matters.\n", "\nWithout real technical details, it's hard to answer this question. But\nsuppose they already *are* XORing the two 40-bit parts to produce only\n40 bits of real key material? Maybe they're using the exportable version\nof RC2...? :-)", "The points raised about checking what is actually -in- the chip, as\n\topposed to what is allegedly programmed therein, raise yet another trust\n\tissue. Even if we assume that these \"trusted agents\" are really entering\n\ta wide range of S1 and S2 seeds (rather than using the same one all the\n\ttime to reduce the key search space to 30 bits), I assume they are not\n\tdoing so by picking up an iron filing and poking it into the circuitry\n\tat carefully selected points to encode data. They would presumably be\n\tpunching numbers into a computer, which for all they know could program\n\tthe chips in a manner completely independent of the S1 and S2 values they\n\tare feeding into the system.\n\nS1 and S2 are clearly the backdoor - we should assume they are all\ncompromised. If they're not compromisable, why the hell not use a\nhardware true random number source. There isn't a random number\nsource *anywhere* in this proposal. The whole thing is deterministic\nfrom the day the serial number is stamped on the chip.\n\nNope, it can't be trusted. This is all about two levels of access -\nthe (possibly honest) key escrow that police forces have to use, and\nostensibly the FBI; and the back door that lets the NSA decode *everything*\non the fly - and maybe some back-handers to the FBI when they want a\nwarrantless tab in exchange for favours.", "...\n\n\tOh they'll get it back, with exposed film. :(\n\n\tShortly after the Rodney King episode, a woman here in Dayton used a\ncamcorder to tape the police arresting several youths.\n\n\tUpon noticing her, the police arrested her (for jaywalking!) and\n\"accidently\" erased the tape while they had it.\n\n\tYep, they'll get their film back allright....", "I am looking for some Public Domain (and exportable) code for\nencryption. Nothing elaborate, just something that will satisfy\na marketing need :-)\nOh yes, UNIX platform.", "\nDoes anyone know what countries are these?\n\n\nWith the following logical consequences\n\t(a) Using any code designed to obscure informatio which is \n\t not easily breakable will be illegal, including\n\t\t(i) Using code words such as ``Project P5''\n\t\t(ii) Speaking a language other than English\n\t\t(iii) Ever refering implicitly to events not known to\n\t\t\teveryone, eg\n\t\t\t\"Hi John. How was last night?\"\n\t\t For all the listener knows, this may be a code for\n\t\t\t\"Did you pick up the drugs OK last night?\"\n\t\t of be a code for\n\t\t \"OK. We blow up the Pentagon at midnight.\"\n\t\t(iv) Mentioning anything that could not be perfectly\n\t\t understood by an average person with no education.\n\t\t(v) Words with more than one syllable.\n\t\t(vi) Speaking with a heavy accent that could bemisunderstood\n\t\t by people not used to it.\n\t\t(vii) books with an \"Inner meaning\"...such\n\t\t as \"Animal Farm\".\n\n\nYes.\n\n\nI have a wonderful encrypter you can borrow that converts a message\neg \"Meet me at 11:30 to bomb the White House. Bring some dynamite\"\nto an apparently (relatively) innoculous message. This message\nhere is an example of the output for the above message :-).\n\n\nIt is shockiong that it could happen anywhere.\nIt is shocking that it could happen in a country \nthat has the arrogance to call itself free.\n\nWhat you can do:\n\t(1) Write to your congress person in plain text.\n\t(2) Write to your congress person in encrypted text.\n\t\t(decrypter optional)\n\t(3) Send some random keystroked to your congressperson\n\t(4) Send some random keystrokes accross the US boundaries,\n\t\tand keep the spooks busy trying to decode it.\n\t(5) Write your own encryption algorithms.\n\t(6) Don't buy clipper products.\n\nP.S. I can't work out why the US government doesn't want to sell\nthem overseas. After all, they are rather easy for US interests to decode,\nso make a perfect tool for industrial/military espionage...lulling \nanyone stupid enough to buy it into a false sense of security. You will\nnotice that there is NO mention anywhere about safety for non-Americans.\n\nDisclaimer: My opinions are mine alone, and do not represent anyone elses.\nI have nothing that I particularly want to hide at the moment...though I \nconsider the right\nto be able to use whatever method of coding data I like to be high on my\nlist of priorities.\n\n-- ", "-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----\n\n\n\n\n >So, don't just think of replacements for clipper, also think of front\n >ends.\n\n This only makes sense if the government prohibits alternative non-escrowed\n encryption schemes. Otherwise, why not just use the front end without\n clipper?\n\n David\n\nDavid, they (== the gov't) have already said that they hope to DO THIS\nin the long run...\n\n- -derek\n\nPGP 2 key available upon request on the key-server:\n\tpgp-public-keys@toxicwaste.mit.edu\n\n-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----\nVersion: 2.2\n\niQBuAgUBK9TknDh0K1zBsGrxAQEAQgLFEFNH9HlHyoVHuWR5RWD9Y+mBrXkYKWsC\naAZO1x1WXhca5FG+UK9/TYYoBpBTLqGSUrgKgdzPXWFH8/+ZXgXrggwf6wP2eDSt\nBYCCYb9JRX3LoZcg5whgOi4=\n=8H7Y\n-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----", "\nI don't have the wiretap statute handy. But here's what the law says\non pen registers. This is all from Title 18 of the U.S. Code. Note\nhow vague S. 3125(a)(1)(B) is.... I haven't had a chance to check\nout 50 U.S.C. 1801 yet.\n\n----\n\n18 USC S. 3121 Pen Registers (as of 4/93)\n\n\nS. 3121. General prohibition on pen register and trap and trace device\nuse; exception\n\n (a) In general. Except as provided in this section, no person may\ninstall or use a pen register or a trap and trace device without first\nobtaining a court order under section 3123 of this title or under the\nForeign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1801 et seq.).\n\n.....\n\nS. 3125. Emergency pen register and trap and trace device\ninstallation\n\n (a) Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter , any\ninvestigative or law enforcement officer, specially designated by the\nAttorney General, the Deputy Attorney General, the Associate Attorney\nGeneral, any Assistant Attorney General, any acting Assistant Attorney\nGeneral, or any Deputy Assistant Attorney General, or by the principal\nprosecuting attorney of any State or subdivision thereof acting pursuant\nto a statute of that State, who reasonably determines that--\n\n (1) an emergency situation exists that involves--\n\n (A) immediate danger of death or serious bodily injury to any person;\nor\n\n (B) conspiratorial activities characteristic of organized crime,\n\n that requires the installation and use of a pen register or a trap\nand trace device before an order authorizing such installation and use\ncan, with due diligence, be obtained, and\n\n (2) there are grounds upon which an order could be entered under this\nchapter to authorize such installation and use \"may have installed and\nuse a pen register or trap and trace device if, within forty-eight\nhours after the installation has occurred, or begins to occur, an order\napproving the installation or use is issued in accordance with section\n3123 of this title.\"\n\n (b) In the absence of an authorizing order, such use shall\nimmediately terminate when the information sought is obtained, when the\napplication for the order is denied or when forty-eight hours have\nlapsed since the installation of the pen register or trap and trace\ndevice, whichever is earlier.", ": In light of recent events, it may soon become a very good idea\n: to include the ability to produce transparent, or at least non-obvious,\n: cyphertext in upcoming revisions.\n\nThis won't help if the NSA/FBA axis requires all messages to\nundergo textual analysis and reduction to canonical form to\neliminate concealed messages.\n\nAfter reading several National Computer Security Center\ndocuments, I'm convinced that they are already using this\nfilter. DoubleplusgoodNOT.\n", "\n\nMe too. A tendency on the part of some people to hide their head in\nthe sand.\n\n\nHow many people do you want jailed for their convictions, for their\ninsistence on real privacy? Why sit by quietly while the preconditions\nfor a real civil war are put in place by a short-sighted government.\n\n\nThe terminal is mightier than the pen :)\n\n\nReally? I guess you mean the U.S. revolution. How about England,\nIndia, Mexico, France, Holland....\n\n\nYou are misinformed. But this whole issue is off the topic.\n\n\nWhen the cops kick in your door for using PGP, tell them that. All\nwe're doing here is exercising our (so-called, rapidly narrowing)\nright to free speech. \n\n\nPerhaps you should talk to the government about that. Or are you a\ndisciple of David \"The cops are our FRIENDS\" Sternlight?\n\nThe implied threat of the illegalization of private crypto, the\nnot-so-subtle subtext of the clipper announcement, is what worries me.\nI don't want my children growing up in a police state.\n\n-Rens\n\n**Disclaimer: all opinions herein are mine and mine alone, and do not\n necessarily represent those of any organization with\n which I may be affiliated.", "I am aware of the restrictions imposed by the munitions act\non the export of cryptographic technology, however, is it illegal to\ntransmit encrypted data from the U.S. to another country? If so,\nthen which laws apply to this situation?\n ", "\nThat's one way to put it. Keeping the algorithm classified means that \ndisclosure of it falls under the rubric of \"national security.\" Nothing like \nfederal marshalls to guard a monopoly...\n\n\nAgreed, although this is still somewhat better than the status quo :).\n\n\nSounds like a job for the Free Software Foundation :)/2...\n", "\nYou can find the salient difference in any number of 5th amendment\nrelated Supreme Court opinions. The Court limits 5th amendment\nprotections to what they call \"testimonial\" evidence, as opposed to\nphysical evidence.\n\nThe whole question would hinge on whether a crypto key would be\nconsidered \"testimonial\" evidence. I suppose arguments could be made\neither way, though obviously I would hope it would be considered\ntestimonial.", "\nTo paraphrase, I may not agree with what you're encrypting, but I defend\nyour right to encrypt it.\n\n\n", "\n\nA person I know, belonging to a research lab of a rivate\ncompany, claimed to me during a priavte conversation that, given the\nequipment in his lab, he could crack a Kerberos ticket in 15 minutes to\nan hour. He had access to rather powerful DES hardware, but not of an\nextraordinare kind, I believe. The attack was possible because of the\namount of known plaintext in the ticket, which itself constitutes a small\nmessage. This was two years ago.\nDES is no longer usable for encryption of really sensitive data. For a\nlot of purposes, however, it is still very adequate.", "\nWhy not? It hasn't been released, so there's no way for you to evaluate it \nyet. After all, Apple could have been smart and had AOCE use an MD5 hash \nencrypted with RSA, just like PKCS signatures. They could even be actually \nPKCS compliant, for all you know; why not wait until it is released, and hard \ninformation is available, before passing judgement on it?\n\nAOCE's algorithm's aren't secret because Apple's being fascistic--AOCE itself \nremains secret (except for Apple demos at MacWorld :)), simply because it's \nnot done yet.\n\nIt may be flawed, and it may not. However, you can't tell which until you \nactually see it. I, at least, am quite impressed with what I have seen so \nfar, and have no expectation of being disappointed.\n", " >supposed to develop cryptosystems. If the government chooses to go\n >ahead and sell those cryptosystems to the masses, so be it.", "\n\nThe proposal could be modified so that if they get a court order to tap you\nand don't charge you with a crime within, say, 90 days, they have to buy you\na new phone.\n\nIf they do charge you, and you are found innocent, they have to buy you a\nnew phone.\n\n:-)\n\nDavid\n", ": \n: \t1) Monitor my phonecalls.\n: \t2) Monitor usenet.\n: \t3) Provide only cryptosystems they can easily crack.\n: \t4) etc etc.\n: \n: \tThis is not to say that they *don't*, they might. But you don't\n: know that they do, and you have no evidence that they do, for almost\n: all values of you. It follows, therefore, that for most values of 'you',\n: your claims about the NSA border on paranoia.\n: \n: \tAndrew\n\nNow I wouldn't be the one to claim that you are injecting some\ndisinformation into the net, Andrew, but 'paranoia' refers to\nunwarranted or excessive suspicions or fear, not those that\nhave reasonable roots.\n\nLet's start with looking at the professionals, the NSA itself.\nIts birth was by secret executive order by Harry S Truman\nin 1952. Until even 1976 not even one word of this executive\norder chartering the NSA was sealed. Paranoia, right?\n\nOn the outside of the NSA complex is a ten foot Cyclone fence\nwith multiple rows of barbed wire, with high voltage, complete with signs\nprohibiting even making sketches under penalty of the Internal\nSecurity Act. The area is completely scanned by closed circuit\ntelevision. More paranoia.\n\nThese are professionals, Maybe they know something we don't, eh?\n\nDo you think it would have helped Admiral Yamamoto if the Japanese\nhad been a little more 'paranoid' of their purple cipher?\n\nOr maybe the Germans should have been a little more 'paranoid' about\ntheir Engima with respect to Turing and the British.\n\nHow about the cracking of the Zimmerman telegram? Would a little\nmore paranoia have helped the Germans here?\n\nMaybe the NSA should have been a little more 'paranoid' about\nEmma Woikin, or Joseph Sidney Petersen, Jr., or ...\n\nMaybe you want to talk about Macmillan publishers cooperation\nwith the CIA and NSA to suppress Yardley's Japanese Diplomatic\nSecrets or even Kahn's The Codebreakers.. paranoia, right?\n\nThe most popular cipher systems in captured soviet spies was\nthe one-time pad, even with the necessity of keeping incriminating\nevidence about, is known to be the only proven unbreakable system.\nSoviet paranoia, right?\n\nAnd what do you think the NSA does with its Wullenwebers? And \nhuge Rhombics pointed embassy row? And their sites near\nsatellite uplink and downlink sites? Duh.\n\nWhen I worked in a classified MITRE communications lab at one time\neven with a \"secret\" clearance I had to be escorted to the toilet\nand the entire site was built INTO a Mosler-type vault with *very*\nthick bomb-proof door. MITRE paranoia?\n\nI could cite probably a hundred more facts which all support, as\nbest hypothesis, the notion that the NSA is grabbing as much as\nit can, as fast as it can. One would be a fool to ignore the\npattern of facts and conclude that they were random...\n\nAnd we know the government is violent -- even against children as\nrecent events prove. Judge William Sessions is a disgrace\nbut a solemn warning to those who ignore the web of evidence\nthat our government institutions have in their contempt for our\ncivil rights.\n\nAnd of course we have to err somewhat on the excessive side of\ncaution because that does much less harm than erring on the\nreckless side. As member of the crew of the USS Liberty might aver.\n\nI might suggest, Andrew, that you read Kahn's Codebreakers and\nBamford's Puzzle Palace and come back with some more facts to\nsupport your sheepish acquiescence to authority.\n ", "\nTrue, but will traditional encryptions schemes, when further encrypted\nby Clipper, be _more_ vulnerable to attacks such as partially known\nplaintext?", "Permit me to quote fragments of \npraetzel@sunee.uwaterloo.ca's article\nout of context.\n\n-Newsgroups: sci.electronics,comp.lsi.cad\n-From: praetzel@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Praetzel)\n-Date: 10 Feb 93 15:46:41 GMT\n\n- Currently the XNF format is propierty and I know of at least on person at\n-a university who was able to get it after signing a non-disclosure agreement.\n-The Xilinx-bit map format is pretty well top secret. I would love to know it\n-because then you could make self_modifying_hardware ;-) As it is I had to\n-reverse eng. the Xilinx tools to dump the bit map to the FPGA because it only\n-runs on the computer with the hardware key.\n\nself-modifying hardware could be *very* interesting --\n computers that could write thier own programs (assemblers, compilers)\nwere an immense breakthrough from calculators that couldn't.\n\n- I eagerly await a programmable gate array which uses a PD format and does\n-not cost your first born to program. Till then we will keep on reverse\n-engineering whatever we can. As it is one company that I worked at has gone\n-under. FPGAs are what they needed to make their product competitive. They\n-could not afford them. In the end you could say that they could not afford\n-to not use them but the management discovered that too late. \n- - Eric \n\nmy condolences.\n\ni can't even imagine what i could do with self-modifing hardware.\ni *can* imagine self-modifying software,\nand even though *all* my teachers say that's BAD, even Worse than GOTO,\ncheck out what the experts *used* to say about self-modifying code:\n(he uses \"orders\" rather than \"opcodes\")\n\n\n\"On the Principles of Large Scale Computing Machines\"\nby Goldstine and von Neumann,\ncollected in \n_John von Neumann: Collected Works, Vol. V_\nreprinted here with absolutely no permission from anyone.\n\"We plan... to have a full size (40 binary digit) word hold\neither contain\n1 full size number (... equivalent to 12 decimal digits,\nbut we will use the first binary digit to denote the sign)\nor two (20 binary digit) orders.\n....\n\tIt should be added that this technique of\nautomatic substitutions into orders,\ni.e. the machine's ability to modify its own orders\n(under the control of other ones among its orders)\nis absolutely necessary for a flexible code. Thus, if\npart of the memory is used as a \"function table\", then\n\"looking up\" a value of that function for a value of the \nvariable which is obtained in the course of the computation\nrequires that the machine itself should modify, or\nrather make up, the reference to the memory in the order which\ncontrols this \"looking up\", and the machine can only make this\nmodification after it has already calculated the value of the \nvariable in question.\n\tOn the other hand, this ability of the machine to modify its\nown orders is one of the things which makes coding\nthe non-trivial operation which we have to view it as.\"\n\ndavid cary, tenor, e- and comp. engineering (finger caryd@a.cs.okstate.edu).\n227 S. 163 E. Ave, Tulsa, OK 74108-3310, USA, Sol 3, Universe v. 1.2\n", "Forwarded from libernet@dartmouth.edu:\n\nDate: Tue, 20 Apr 93 10:30:47 PDT\nFrom: ald@clipper.clipper.ingr.com (Al Date)\nSubject: \"Clipper Chip\" --NOT!\nTo: libernet@Dartmouth.EDU\n\nClipper TM chip is a registered trademark of Intergraph Corp.\n\nThe so-called Clipper chip which was recently mentioned here\nand in other media\nwith respect to encryption is being used in violation of that trademark. \n\nThe Intergraph Clipper chip is a Unix microprocessor, originally \ndeveloped by Fairchild Semiconductors, and has no relationship\nto the encryption chip whatsoever. \n\nI mention this here with the hope that someone reading this will\nintercede before the group alt.privacy.\"clipper\" is established.\n", "[...]\n\nNo no no no no no no.\n\nIt will go like this:\n\nFEDS: We need the key to phone 334RE67D99.\n\nESCROW: You have a warrant to tap the line phone 334RE67D99 is on?\n\nFEDS: Yes.\n\nESCROW: Fine, here is our key.\n\nWhat happens is, Feds tap a line; find Clipper is being used; extract\nserial number; get key; decipher convo. The serial number is never\nregistered to a specific owner, it is _sent_ as part of the\nconversation. If I give you my Clipper phone, you do not need to\nre-register it (mainly because it was never 'registered' to me in the\nfirst place).\n\nThere are a lot of things that bother me about Clipper, but this is\nnot one of them. Let's get our facts straight and not waste effort\ndemolishing straw men.\n\n\tRA\n\nrogue@cs.neu.edu (Rogue Agent/SoD!)", "\nThanks for posting this and making it available. This post will be LONG, I will\ncomment on most of it, and am reluctantly leaving all of the original in place\nto provide context.\n\nPlease note that an alt. group has been set up for the Clipper stuff.\n\n ^^^^^^^^^\nHum, AT&T, VLSI and Mykotronx are 'industry'?\nWonder what happened to IBM, this should be right up their street.\nAnd a mandateed scheme is voluntary? Mr Orwell would love this.\n\n ^^^^^^^^^\n\nTelephone encryption and scrambleing are years behind digital ones like RSA,\nIDEA, or even DES. The above, while literaly true, is a clasic straw-man claim\nin the context of non-real-time circuits such as E-mail and the like.\n\n\nI would modestly propose that a mandated use of ISDN would do more for commun-\nications than this lot.\n\n\nNormmaly DES.\n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nNote the use of the word \"business\" in the above. The whole tenor of this\nrelease seems to be establishing a ground rule that only \"business\" use\nis legitimate for debate. If you want the nothings you drop in your wife's\near to remain secret and private, that is not even on the agenda for debate.\nNote that there is NO role for you to contain private info in this. The only\nreference is to information already in the hands of others. The 'unauthorized\nrelease' bit is also drawing a long bow. Most of these cases are by people who\nhave legitimate access abusing it, and revealing, or often selling the info.\nThese people are, of course, in this proposal, the people who will have the\nkeys.\n\nThe criminals also use lawers, courts, the CIA, white-house officials and pens\nto go about their business. When will they be outlawed as well? Yeah, several\nof them would be a better idea than CLipper!\n\nThem again, the protections of law and the courts have been seriously erroded\nover the last decade ofr so.\n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nNSA\n\n\nYeah, this bit is VERY true.\n\n\nNote the repeated mixing of telephone scrabeling and encryption. A demo\nof the above claim on an ordanary POTS would be a good nights entertainment\nI suspect. Note also the 'many'. not 'all', as the general tone implies.\n\n ^^^^^^^^^\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nThe case record seems to indicate that what is needed is a brutal tightening\nof the current abuses. I have not heard, yet, of a case that was impeaded by\nthe use of secure encryption by the men in black. The other side, abuse by law\nenforcers is well documented, even by govt agencies. And the phone vs other coms\nis blurred yet again.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nLets run that line twice. Not **VERY** carefully what it says. The stated\npurpose of the key eschrow is to make the use of Clipper compulsory. Note the\nword \"ensure\". As to 'protect', or 'law-abiding', I will leave to you.\nSo to the person who asked if it included the outlawing of other encryptions,\nthe answer in this press release is, YES.\n\n\nJust as they only can wiretap now with a warrent. \n\n\nJust makes sure that the illegal ones are preserved.\n\n\nWhere do you find many experts. Any ex KGB people looking for a contract? :-)\nAnd as a later posting asks, what of the STU-IIIs they already have. It will\nbe very interesting to see if the military and US embasies start to use it.\nAfter all, it is secure, isn't it. The govt will answer that point by its own\nactions.\n\n ^^^^^^^^\n\nAgain, personal use seems to be a unaskable question.\n\n ^^^^^\n\nAh, so warrents are not always needed it seems.\n\n\nThe ITARs seem to slightly impeed this.\n\n\nNote that all this wonderfull stuff will be in secret. Only the 'proper people'\nwill be able to express an opinion, hence only the desired result will emerge.\n\n\nEncryption and codes have been around for millenia. They are generaly in\nequilibrium with the technology of the time. The systematic study of cyphers\nhas resulted in a swing in favor of the encrypter, AT THE MOMENT. I have no\ndoubt that the factoring problem will fall in time. Probably fofr practical\npurposes by the middle of the next century.\n\n\nIt is a little hard to critisise a non-proposal.\n\n\nNote we drop back to 'phone-mode' again. If this is a true answer, it can be\nrephrased as \" It sucks big time. Anyone who can drive the crypt work-bench\nwill use it for light amusement before breakfast.\"\n\n\nThis link between the security of the key-eschrow, and the actual algorithm is \na real winner. Given that I have 2 secret 40 bit numbers, could someone please\nexplain how the details of an encryption algorithm will reveal them?\n\n\nJust make sure you read the CVs REAL carfully, OK.\n\n\nQuick, with out looking back, What name is missing from that list?\n\n\nThe people who agree with us and who think there is a buck in it for them.\n\n\nThe reverse engineering provisions of the 'Mask-work' act could be relevent\nhere.\n\n\nYou don't. Not unless you are one of the 'right people'.\n\n\nThey missed the word secret here. He needs a grammar lesson too.\n\n\nI would say \"less secure, less conveniant, more expensive ( PGP is free ),\nless available, and more prone to being comprimised\"\nProofs to the contarary will be welcome. Note PROOF.\n\n\nThey don't seem to be saying anything that makes much sense. And this proposal\nDOES prohibit it except in a very limited way. And, this is the one explicit\nreference to personal rights. It is a denial. And yes, I don't think that the\nMexicans, Brazilians, and Canucks are included in Clinton et als magnanamous\ngesture.\n\n\nThe 'false tension' is false. The balance is between two repugnant points. The\nRIGHT to privacy is hand-waved to non-existance by putting it behind the \"false\nassessment\". It is assumed that the removal of the right to take what ever steps\nYOU deem suitable to protect YOUR privacy is non negotiable, hence is defined\nin the govenment language to be non-existant. If you don't agree, you must be a\ncriminal, as only criminals don't agree with out laws. Also note the non-\nquestion. \"If what is here was not possible...\"\n\n\nIt indicates we know that Bush dropped the ball in squashing that nasty < insert\nsuitable retoric > and will stamp out this disorderly, unruley outbreak of\nfreedom and ultra-national sentiment.\n\n\nThis one is a real giggle. In Australia or France, they will have to reveal the\nkeys, and the algorithm. Don't think it's at the top of my list of things I must\nhave, so the restrictions will protect me from saleks trying to sell me a bill\nof crock.\n\nAny for any others using it, they must be nuts!\n\nGood luck folks.", "\n\nIt is incompetent, like almost anything you have posted here, so\nyou'll be flamed, sorry.\n\n\n%/$( your \"20 years of background in two Fortune 50 companies\"; I've\nlived 30 years under a totalitarian regime, and boy, I *can* recognize\na totalitarian plot when I see one...\n\n\nI am sure that -you- would be happy to use anything \"they\" tell you is\nsecure; we're talking about the intelligent people here... Or the\ncriminal ones, if you don't like the previous sentence... :-) Or those\nwho don't want their privacy to be guaranteed to be invadable by the\ngovernment - any current and future government, mind you...\n\n\nEven if you ignore the nonsense of the above statement for a moment,\nand even if you are happy with such system and the current escrow\nagencies NOW, what guarantees that you'll be happy with them TOMORROW,\nwhen the government changes? Or when the current government throws\naway the sheep skin? All the sheep who are reasoning like you will get\ncaught by surprise, but it will be too late, because then cryptography\nthat is not guaranteed to be breakable by the government will already\nhave been outlawed... After all, you've already got privacy that is\nsaid to be breakable only by the law enforcement agencies, so if you\nare law-abiding, you have no reasons to use a stronger one, right? So,\nif you are using a stronger one, you have something to hide from the\nlaw enforcement agencies, right? Something unlawful, right? Therefore,\nstrong crypto is a clear idndication that you are doing something\nunlawful.\n\n\nConsidering the level of competence in cryptology that you have\ndemonstrated in your messages, you would trust just anything... And\nno, this is not an ad hominem attack; it's an attack against the\ncontents of your messages .\n\n\nAnd how do you know that these experts are not corrupted? And how do\nyou know that they will not make a mistake? And how do you know that\nthe version of the algorithm they will be let to examine is the same\nas the one that will be really used?\n\nRegarding the mistake - even the few information \"they\" have let out\nhas revealed a serious security hole in the protocol - the 80-bit key\nis split in two 40-bit ones, thus the whole system is easily\nbreakable, if you have only one of the keys.\n\n\nThe Swiss or the Japanese are motivated by simple greed; NSA is\nmotivated by their wish to control the people. That's why the drug\ndealers have their accounts in Swiss banks, instead of in American\nones. For some reason, they do trust the Swiss banks more... Guess\nthey'll trust the Swiss encryption more too... I see IDEA becoming\nsuddenly popular... :-)\n\n\nIt's not surprising at all, but not because of the reason you give.\nIt's because it is obvious that the US government has put a lot of\nmoney behind this program and it will support it. Thus, most\ncorporations will try to get their piece from the pie by supporting it\ntoo. The same good old greed. Strong encryption is not widely\navailable now not because of some plot, but because the companies\ndon't see much money in it. It will be available even less, if the\ncompanies can see any penalties associated with it...\n\n\nYeah, just as I predicted, you are here again, to support the new\nsystem.\n\nRegards,\nVesselin", "\n\nI'd use a secret (nope, obscure) cryptographic encoding to expand the \n30 bit serial number to a 64 bit block. The redundancy hereby introduced \ncan be used to detect tampered Clipper signals where some public enemy \nreplaced the L.E. block by random data. \n\nAnd of course the L.E. block would be used to initialise the encryption \nof the user data so that at the receiving end the correct L.E. block must \nbe processed in order to have any chance of getting the plaintext back. \n\nFor those of you who might want to mangle the L.E. block (e.g. by xor-ing \na constant pattern) on the transmission line and restore it before feeding \nit into the receiving Crippler Chip I would add further encrypted copies \nof this block (perhaps created by repeated application of the encryption \nalgorithm or so) at regular intervals during the transmission. If the \nreceiving chip detects a mismatch it must assume that the line is bad and \nit will cease to work; in your own interest you are protected from getting \nfaulty plaintext, you know -- it's just like a checksum for your own \nsafety ;-(. \n\nThe `monitoring agencies' won't have the famous black box which is needed \nfor actual decryption and will be kept by the FBI; but nothing prevents \nthem from using special boxes which will do the redundancy check for the \nserial number block and consistency checks on the embedded L.E. blocks \nwithin the transmission. These boxes will turn a red light on as soon as \nthey detect a bitstream that violates the correct protocol.\n\nSo don't anyone think that you can use the chip and fool L.E. about the \ntapping key -- I bet the developpers have provided much better checks \nthan those suggested above. Of course it's absolutely crucial that the \nalgorithms (and protocols) remain secret. Personally I doubt they will.\n", "Since the law requires that wiretaps be requested by the Executive\nBranch and approved by the Judicial Branch, it seems clear that one\nof the key registering bodies should be under the control of the\nJudicial Branch. I suggest the Supreme Court, or, regionally, the\nCourts of Appeal. More specifically, the offices of their Clerks.\n\n Courts already operate substantial record-keeping operations. Some\nof these records are confidential. So the concept of a court holding\ninformation in confidence in accordance with law has longstanding legal \nprecedents. The judiciary is more immune to pressure from the executive\nbranch than any executive branch agency or contractor can be. So judicial\ncontrol of keys is appropriate.\n\n For the other half of the key, I suggest a unit of Congress, the\nGeneral Accounting Office. The GAO is Congress's staff unit for keeping\ntabs on the Executive Branch, and has an excellent reputation. It's\ncontrolled strictly by Congress; the Executive Branch has no authority\nover it.\n\n With keys split between the Legislative and Judicial branches,\nwe might have a chance of this system working honestly. If, of course,\na way can be found to keep the keys from being siphoned off before\nthey reach the repositories.\n\n This should not be construed as an endorsement by me of the\nwhole Clipper concept. But if we have to have it, splitting control\nacross all three branches of government might make it work.", "\n So in a few years there could be millions of these chips in the USA, all\nnetworked together? Sounds like a good science fiction story - the government\nwants to crack foreign DES (or whatever) messages, so they con the public into\nindividually buying all of the components and installing them. Soon the US\ncould be covered by the largest parallel computer in the world, built on top of\nour current phone net.", "\n\nMaybe so, but it's quite common. There are millions of Macintosh users who\nhave no idea what's in Apple's patented ROMs. Many have modems connected.\nHow do you know all your business secrets aren't being stolen? Answer:\n1. Because you trust Apple;\n2. Because if any such attempt, however sophicsticated, came out, it would\ndestroy Apple's credibility forever.\n\nIn the Clipper case, a representative body of experts is going to be allowed\nto audit it, and we'll have assurances (maybe even from the President) that\nother than the escrowed keys there are no back doors. While some may not\nhave confidence in that (I am not among them), it's a lot more assurance\nthan we get for many things we routinely trust in everyday life.\n\nDavid", "\nThis is a very curious thing to say. STU-IIIs (NSA-designed secure\ntelephones cleared for classified traffic) are already readily\navailable to law enforcement agencies. Word has it they're standard in\nevery FBI office, for example. Something like several hundred\nthousand of these phones exist in all. They are clearly the US government\nstandard.\n\nSo why does the DoJ need to buy new phones that, unlike STU-IIIs, will\nnot be certified for classified traffic, and in all likelihood will\nnot be compatible with existing STU-IIIs?\n\nUnless, of course, they're gearing up for large scale decryption of\ncivilian Clipper users, and they need compatible hardware...", "\nI somehow started to doubt technical competence of the\npeople who designed the system. Why on the Earth split the\n80-bit key in 40-bit parts to keep them in escrow separately\n(having 40 bit and large volumes of data voice links produce\nit should be relatively easy to break it) when they simply\ncould keep 80-bit sequences in N (N>=2) independent places\nand then XOR all the partial keys to get the actual key (N-1\nsequences should obviously be selected randomly and Nth is the\nactual key XOR-ed with the random sequences).\n\n(Or is it a conspiracy? 1/2 :-)", "\n You forgot the part about encasing it in a small shaped charge so that\nif anyone tries to tamper with it, it explodes and kills you.\n\n Oh, and the shaped charge can be set off by remote control...but only\nif you get out of line. Properly patriotic citizens have nothing to fear.", "\n There has been extensive discussion in the eff forum, for example, about\n inadmissible taps being used to develop information that could then lead to\n admissible evidence. This might put a stop to such things, which must from\n time to time be simple fishing expeditions.\n\nFar more likely, these things will continue to be done no matter what\nassurances we are given. \"Key Escrow\" is likely going to prove to be a\njoke.\n\n--\nPerry Metzger\t\tpmetzger@shearson.com", "\nWhere? I honestly didn't see any...\n\n\nI disagree, if for no other reason than that there are already other \nstandards in place. Besides, even if they restrict encryption on the NREN, \nwho cares? Most of the Internet is commercial anyway. The NREN is only for \ngeovernment and university research (read the proposals--it's a \"data \nsuperhighway\" for Cray users, not anything having to do with the Internet).\n", "\n\nIt's not a question just of who is holding the phone. It's a question of\nwhat circuit to wiretap in the first place. If two drug dealers are both\nusing stolen cellular phones, the FBI doesn't know which lines to tap\n-- unless of course they're tapping *all* phones (maybe *all* cellular\nphones). If they haven't tapped the connection (ie., at least one end of\nthe connection) then they don't know what key to request.\n", "The *security* of the system does depend only on the secrecy of the keys.\n\nThe ability to tap is an inherent *insecurity* which depends fundamentally on\nthe secrecy of the algorithm. To spell it out, because so many people seem to\nmiss the point, if the algorithm were published, anyone could create a chip\nwhich would work correctly with the Skipjack chips but which would not have\nits key registered.\n\nI believe there is no technical means of ensuring key escrow without the\ngovernment maintaining a secret of some kind. For example, the secret could be\nthe private keys of the escrow agencies; their digital signatures would be\nrequired before a key could be used. In this case, the NSA/NIST/whoever has\ndecided that protecting the entire algorithm is easier/cheaper/more secure than\nother possible protocols.\n", "\nI did. You're mistaken. NSA's communications intelligence mission is\nstrictly against foreign governments. Here's an excerpt from the enabling\ncharter (24 Oct 52, Truman) that should clarify this. The charter was\ndeclassified in about Feb 1990 when an FOIA request made it public. Mind\nyou, I don't know that they never collect anything they're not supposed\nto... but spying on US citizens isn't in their charter.\n\n b. The COMINT mission of the National Security Agency\n\t(NSA) shall be to provide an effective, unified organization\n\tand control of the communications intelligence activities of\n\tthe United States conducted against foreign governments, to\n\tprovide for integrated operational policies and procedures\n\tpertaining thereto. As used in this directive, the terms\n\t\"communications intelligence\" or \"COMINT\" shall be construed\n\tto mean all procedures and methods used in the interception\n\tof communications other than foreign press and propaganda\n\tbroadcasts and the obtaining of information from such\n\tcommunications by other than intended recipients, but shall\n\texclude censorship and the production and dissemination of\n\tfinished intelligence.\n\nThey're also tasked with protecting the US's communications, but I haven't\nseen the specific enabling memo on that. I assume that's the role under\nwhich Skipjack was developed.\n\nNSA is not in the standard-setting business, though -- that's why this\nClipper stuff came from NIST, which I believe is tasked with coming up\nwith standards based on their best inputs from other government agencies,\nwhich would include NSA.", "\n\n[ ... ]\n\n\n\nTalk about adding insult to injury ... \n\nI, for one, believe that the use of civil forfeiture should be abolished by\na decent administration, not continued. Instead, it looks like that\nill-gotten gain will be used to help pay for wiretap equipment.\n", "\nThis won't work if there is a checksum on the keys you don't know about.\nNeither will registering a clipper chip and then substituting a\n\"counterfeit\" one if the serial number contains a checksum.\n\nChances are the government has thought of this, and \"just anyone\" won't be\npermitted access to enough of the internals to make a \"fake\" clipper chip.\nChances are that the government has classified some details of the internals\nat a very high level, and manufacturers are required to observe security\nsafeguards and clearances corresponding to that level.\n\nWhile not perfect, it would prevent Joe Hacker from rolling his own spoofing\nchip, since not many counterfeiters can survive a background investigation.\nSome of the more notorious self-styled dissidents here, for example, have\nalready got their heads so high above the tall grass that they'd have little\nchance of getting a clearance.\n\nOf course it's not impossible that someone do this, but probably extremely\ndifficult. Chances are there will also be very heavy criminal penalties for\nphony clipper chips, on some national security/classified info grounds or\nother, thus making the game not worth the candle.\n", "\nIt also goes like this:\n\nFED1: We need to listen into 's\n conversations but don't have probable cause for a tap.\n\nFED2: Who do we have a tap on?\n\nFED1: .\n\nFED2: So get the keys - we can always claim that phone's being used on the\n tapped line.\n\nThere's got to be some way to associate an instrument with an individual or\nthe state effectively has a tap, possibly not admissible (given the War on\nDrugs exceptions to the 4/5 ammendments, who knows) but none the less\nlistenable tap on any phone.", ": \n: \n: \"Numerical Recipes in C\"..Fortran..Pascal has a nice section on\n: encryption and decryption based on the DES algorithm. There is\n: also source code provided (I think some versions of this book are \n: distributed with the source code on disk; the source code can\n: also be ordered from the publisher).\n: \n: --Victor Iseli\n: victori@xetron.com\n\nYes I benchmarked the DES implementation in the Recipes in C\nbook.. it is about 1 1/2 orders of magnitude SLOWER than the\nOuterbridge/Karn/Gillogly/et al implementation.\n\nIt may be instructional, but it isn't very fast.", "\nWell, I'm not a lawyer, but from what I can tell this is completely\nand utterly untrue.\n\nYou see, this country has this thing called a \"constitution\".\n\nIf you legitimately aquire the device, and you yourself are\nnot a government employee or otherwise encumbered, I don't think they\ncan stop you from revealing anything about the device you can\ndetermine. Remember the Pentagon Papers precedent? The First Amendment\napplies here.\n\nThe U.S. does NOT have an official secrets act. We do have laws that\nwill punish you for revealing what classified information you learned\nin your capacity as a government official, contractor, etc, and we\nhave laws that prohibit stealing such information. However, if they\nsell you the chip, I can't see that they can make reverse engineering\nit and revealing the details illegal.\n\n--\nPerry Metzger\t\tpmetzger@shearson.com", "a global key G, plus one key U_C for each chip C. The user can choose a\nnew session key K_P for each phone call P he makes. Chip C knows three\nkeys: G, its own U_C, and the user's K_P. The government as a whole\nknows G and every U_C. Apparently a message M is encrypted as\nE_G(E_{U_C}(K_P),C) , E_{K_P}(M). That's it.\n\nThe system as described here can't possibly work. What happens when\nsomeone plugs the above ciphertext into a receiving chip? To get M\nthe receiving chip needs K_P; to get K_P the receiving chip needs U_C.\nThe only information it can work with is C. If U_C can be computed\nfrom C then the system is cryptographically useless and the ``key\nescrow'' is bullshit. Otherwise how is a message decrypted?", "\n > Second question: Why!?!? Why is such a strange procedure used, and\n >not a real RNG ? This turns those S1,S2 in a kind of bottleneck for\n >system- security.\n\n\t>> The only theory that makes any sense is that S1 and S2 are\n\t>> either the same for all chips, or vary among very few\n\t>> possibilities, so that anyone trying to break the encryption\n\t>> by brute force need only plow through the possible serial\n\t>> numbers (2^30, about one billion), multiplied by the number\n\t>> of different S1, S2 combinations.\n\n\nSuppose instead that S1 and S2 can be reconstructed given 3 or 4 of the\nunit keys generated in a single batch (through some sort of known\nplaintext attack, say). Suppose further that 3 or 4 of the chips\nprogrammed in each session never find their way into commercial\nproducts, but instead end up \"elsewhere\".\n\nSuppose the folks at \"elsewhere\" can determine a unit key, given\nphysical access to one of these chips. Then those same folks can\ndetermine S1 and S2 for the whole batch...\n\nToo many suppositions? Yeah, probably.", "\n(a) To use for sensitive but not strategically important traffic,\n(b) if the system was cheap.\n\nFor example, I don't own a cordless phone. With Clipper, I would. If the \nlocal men in blue really want to listen to me talk to my friends or order \npizza, I'm no worse off than I am now, and I don't have to worry about\nlocal kids or nosy neighbors.\n\nThat is to say, Clipper \"raises the bar\" on insecure channels. It doesn't \nmake them secure, by any means, but a wall, even if the FBI can get a master \nkey by court order, is still better than a \"keep off the grass\" sign.\n\n\nSo, where can I buy a DES-encrypted cellular phone? How much does it cost?\nPersonally, Cylink stuff is out of my budget for personal use :)...\n\n\nThe Second and Fourth Amendments do come to mind. \n", "-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----\n\nGasp!\n\nI've just spent 3 hours catching up on sci.crypt here (slow reader I\nguess) and I really have to put out a few comments too. First, let me\nflame the famous Dave S. : He's obviously only 10 years old. Cut him\nsome slack. :^}\n\nThe joke about Clinton/crypto/drugs slammed me thru the roof. Nice job\nguys! I've been working on marijuana legalization for over 5 years\nnow, Clinton's actions so far have really helped. But because of\ngovernment action taken against various other groups, I have developed\na 64 bit DES based on public literature to protect my mailing list.\nThe S-boxes are the critical component, and since I chose 32 out of 57\nbased on the key, cracking this DES is going to tough. (The reason it\nslows you down a touch is that for each key you try you need to use a\ndifferent set of s-boxes, I know it's only a vector, but it sure makes\nrandom search a pain). Several marijuana legalization groups have had\ntheir mailing lists confiscated when people were charged with drug\nuse/sales. It's not a crime to be a member of a legalization org,\n*but* you will be watched.\n\nIt really is important to write a letter to every official you\npersonally vote for to explain *why* your privacy is being destroyed by\nthe \"cripple chip\". Amazingly enough they do listen when they get\n*enough* mail. The Doonsbery jokes about NRA postcards are real, and\nthe IMI (Illinois Marijuana Initiative) has grown to the point where we\n*are* seeing some changes.\n\nIt's pretty clear that all the hullabaloo is really about the\nimplimentation decision being made behind our backs. As Vesselin\npoints out, this was common practice in communist regimes (and may be\nagain depending on how the vote goes). But just as criminals have guns\nand \"law abiding\" citizens don't, and criminals like me have marijuana\nand \"law abiding\" subjects don't, criminals like me will have secure\ncrypto while \"law abiding\" robots don't. PGP is nice, but as time goes\non we all can do better. And to save our hides we will.\n\nSomeone posted an excerpt from Machiavelli. He's my favorite dude.\n500 years ago he saw clearly how people *are*, and tried to explain\nthat to \"princes\" who wanted people to *obey*. One section not quoted\n(I've got \"The Prince\" at home, so I'll just paraphrase :) ) had to do\nwith conquring a free city. The only way is to *completly destroy*\nit. Failing that, you must appoint locals to high positions and accept\nthe people's customs. Even after 100 years of oppression, a people\nwill remember their heratige and rise up to overthrow the oppresive\ngovernment. And he gave an example. And that was 300 years *before*\nThomas Jefferson.\n\nThere were questions about watching traffic. Only *interesting* traffic\nis watched: stuff that goes overseas and comes back; stuff with keywords\nlike marijauana, cryptography, NSA; certain individuals who are known\nsubversives, etc. It is easy enough to store all that traffic. So if\nyou know how to be *subversive* i.e. how to be unseen, it's pretty easy\nto go unnoticed for a long time. The stronger your crypto system and the\nless you're noticed, the better your chances of developing an organization\nwhich can diseminate truth to the masses.\n\nWhich gets me to the thread about a \"public encrypted conference\".\nThat's just silly. The first thing the feds do is send in an\ninfiltrator (like Dave S.) and they know what you're doing. It will be\nfun for teenagers and college students, but for the real world it's\npretty pointless. Crypto is useful for more things than hiding where\nyou get your marijuana.\n\nGuns, drugs and crypto do have some commonality: there are people in\ngovernment who want you to *obey* their rules. As Lundquist says in\nalt.drugs \"Live free or don't\". Machiavelli pointed out that's just\nhow most people actually live, inspite of appearences to the contrary.\nIt's true that the decision to shove the clipper (not the same thing as\nIntergraph's!!!) down our throats violates the principles of what the\nU.S. was founded on, but the government is full of idiotic robots\ncalled bureaucrats and there's less to worry about than one might\nthink. Only really innocent (read naive) subjects of the U.S. will be\nhurt by this, the rest of us *criminals* will live in secure freedom.\nde Toqueville pointed out 150+ years ago that the tyranny of the\nmajority will be mitigated by the mediocrity of the government.\n\nAnd given what I see government officials doing where I work (Argonne\nNational Lab.) the level of stupidity makes Dave S. look smart.\n\nPatience, persistence, truth,\t\twork: dvader@hemp-imi.hep.anl.gov\nDr. mike\t\t\t\thome: mrosing@igc.org\n\n-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----\nVersion: 2.2", " On the contrary, the entire Clipper proposal is an example of the\ngovernment servicing the people (in the sense of the term found in the\nsentence, \"The farmer paid $100 to rent a bull to service his cows.\")\n\n\n", "Hello,\n\nhow sensible is DES encrypted data towards bit errors? How much data per\nbit will be lost in average (I assume you still have the correct key)?\n\nThanx for hints,\nAxel\n\n---\nExperience is what you get if you don't get what you want...", "\nI speculate, from the MykoTronx data sheet on the MYK-78, that the algorithm \nis a classified cryptosystem, similar in application to DES but cleared by \nthe NSA for classified traffic, that has been in use for a number of years. \nMyktotronx refers to it as \"Government Type II encryption\", which matches the \ndesignation of one of the types of encryption available on STU-III phones, \nand may be the same as a cryptosystem I have heard called \"CIPHER2\".\n\nThis would make sense, since this is evidently a field-proven cryptosystem \nwhich can act as a \"pin-compatible\" substitute for DES. Combined with a \ntappable key exchange protocol, this would offer exactly what is claimed for \nClipper: secure encryption with access via a key escrow. If this is fact the \ncase, it would make me quite confident of the encipherment algorithm itself.\n\nNow, I do not know if these are in fact the same cryptosystem; my knowledge \nof classified cryptography isn't even fuzzy :), it's nonexistent. However, \nit would certainly have been the least-effort approach on the part of the \ngovernment: take an old military cipher that people can drop in place of DES \n(and which is at least as secure), set up a key escrow scheme for law \nenforcement, and promote it for public use. This also fits with Mykotronx, \nwho's been around but almost invisible for years.\n\nHas anyone else made this sort of connection, or am I just hallucinating pink \nelephants here? :). My curiousity has been piqued...\n", "-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----\n\nIn message <9304190956.AA10390@pizzabox.demon.co.uk> you write:\n\n[...]\n\n\nI'd lost the White House's deathless prose when I posted (that's what happens\nwhen you read news at home when you're rat-arsed), but I did have a bunch\nof follow-ups going on about cellular/cordless comms. The original article\nhas reappeared, so:\n\n The President today announced a new initiative that will bring\n the Federal Government together with industry in a voluntary\n program to improve the security and privacy of telephone\n communications while meeting the legitimate needs of law\n enforcement.\n\nHmm, telephone communications could indeed include end-to-end encryption on\nordinary landlines.\n\n The initiative will involve the creation of new products to\n accelerate the development and use of advanced and secure\n telecommunications networks and wireless communications links.\n\nBut the next paragraph says telecoms networks and wireless communications\nlinks.\n\nOK, it's far from clear exactly what Cripple (what an apposite anagram) will\nbe applied to, but the reason Joe Public wants secure comms is to stop\npeople listening in to his cellular or cordless phones (and he wouldn't\neven be bothered about that were it not for Wingnut and Squidqy's\nmisfortunes).\n\nYes, Cripple *might* be for end-to-end encyption, dropping to clear\nwhen the other end doesn't have Cripple. But then a cordless-to-ordinary\nconversation would be in clear leaving the cordless end just as vulnerable\nas at present. Nope, I suspect that Cripple will only be used on radio\nlinks.\n\nOK, it's possible `telecommunications networks' could mean `ordinary phone\nlines', but I'm betting it means the microwave links used by the telcos.\n\nMy apologies if I'm wrong, particularly if the turgid Press Release makes it\nclear that I'm wrong and I missed it, but as far as I can see it was full of\nobfuscation, and anyone expecting end-to-end encryption is in for a surprise\n(IMHO).\n\n\nBTW, Graham, I've posted questions to alt.security.pgp and not seen any\nreplies/followups from outside Europe - how about you? Have I made it into\neveryone's kill file, or is there some problem?\n\n- --Paul\n\n-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----\nVersion: 2.2", "\n\n\n\n\nSomething similar has happened to me - ages ago when we were working on PGP\nwe used to send short messages about development issues or simply to test \nnew features around. Now at this time PGP (and certainly the newer version)\nwas unknown over here. Suddenly the admin at the site I was using received\na request that I stop sending encrypted email. Now there is almost no way\nthat some automatic scanner could have found this, since they wouldn't have\nknown about PGP - they *must* have checked for unknown data types in the\nmessage, tried to unscramble it, found they couldn't get past the PEM\narmour part, and then contacted the sysadmin and asked me to stop. Luckily\nthe current email carriers are less picky about what goes over their\nnetworks :-).\n\nIn case people think email scanning doesn't take place, I can assure you\nthat it is done regularly by many sites - usually not by government\nagencies (or at least not that I know of), but by local administrators who,\nfor reasons of their own, have decided to monitor all communications\n(I'm sure you can all think of a whole mess of reasons - stop hackers/\nterrorists/child pornographers/drug dealers/evil commies/whatever). There\nhave been several occasions when I've got people into trouble simply by\nincluding the traditional NSA bait in a message (I don't try it any more\nnow :-). A friend of mine was once picked up for mentioning the name of\nthe UK town of Scunthorpe (hint: look for words embedded in it). I'm sure\nthere are many more examples of this happening (in fact if anyone has any\nexamples I'd appreciate hearing from them - I could use them as\nammunition during talks on privacy issues).\n\nPeter.", "-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----\n\nHi all..\n\nDoes anyone know of a UNIX utility allowing encrypted telnet sessions using\npublic-key? I'd like something so that nobody can snoop my password or\nsession text while I'm logging in remotely over the network.\n\nThanks\n\ng.\n\n- -------------------------------------------------------------------------\nPLEASE REPORT UNSIGNED (HENCE UNAUTHORISED) MESSAGES PURPORTEDLY FROM ME,\nSENT AFTER 22/04/93. gtf1000@cus.cam.ac.uk\n- -------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n\n-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----\nVersion: 2.2", "\n\n\nNo, he gives the keys to the FBI (who may then give them to the local police\non request) who then simply put some alagator clips on your phone junction\nbox and conduct an illegal tap. They then decrypt when they recover the tape.\nIts just doing what the government does best: breaking the law.", " > >(specifically the terrorists and drug dealers who proponents of key escrow\n > >cite as threats) will be highly motivated to steal the cipher phone of\n > >a legitimate user, and to kill this person or hold them hostage so\n > >discovery of compromise of the device will be delayed.\n\n >Why doing it in such a rough manner? It is much more professional to\n >steal the chip from the phone and even to replace it with a\n >pin-compatible do-nothing chip that does not encrypt at all. Chances\n >are that the victim will not notice anything, especially if it is done\n >professionally.\n\n Assuming that the bad guys can easily obtain substitute chips which don't\ncause any noticeable effect to either the user or the person at the other end\nof the line (if there is any significant difficulty to obtaining such chips,\nsome of the criminals will decide to fall back on the murder/kidnap method).\n\n > > Once a suitable collection of devices is stolen, criminals can communicate\n > >with impunity (assuming the cipher system carries no trapdoors apart from\n > >key escrow) until and unless the compromise is discovered by some other\n > >means.\n\n > No, because the Feds will still be able to decrypt the conversations.\n >True, they'll blame the wrong guys, but nevertheless one cannot say\n >something like \"The drugs arrive tommorrow on the ship 'Terminus'\"\n >when the Feds are listening, even if they cannot identify who the\n >speaker is.\n\n This assumes that the Feds are tapping Clipper phones belonging to ordinary\ncitizens (getting such a phone is the whole point of the crime under\ndiscussion). To be sure, I wouldn't put it past them -- but raising the\npossibility of such crime has the benefit of forcing the Feds to either\n'fess up about such intentions in advance or state that using Clipper\nexposes the user to an additional criminal threat. \n\n > No, the criminals will just use some secure encryption. The new\n >proposal does not stop criminals; it ensures that the government will\n >be able to wiretap the average citizen and stops the casual snooper.\n >To me, it also clearly looks as a step towards outlawing any other\n >strong encryption devices.", "\nAs I read the current wiretap law, it would not be legal now. On the\nother hand, assuming a legislative change, recording but not decrypting\nClipper conversations would probably be found constitutional by the Supreme\nCourt, using the same reasoning (or the lack thereof...) by which they\npermit random roadblocks to check for drunk drivers.\n\nIncidentally, if we use that as our model, the Court will likely not\nuphold selective recording. (On the other hand, I don't think they've\nthrown out ``drug courier profiles'' yet. Must be that exception to\nthe Fourth Amendment that I can never find in my copy of the Bill of\nRights.)\n\nA lot -- and I mean a *lot* -- will depend on exactly how Clippertaps\n(or Tipperclaps, for encrypted music?) are used. Don Alvarez showed in\nthe latest RISKS digest that it's possible to prevent the cops from\nreading traffic after their warrant expires.", "How can the government tell which encryption method one is using without\nbeing able to decode the traffic? i.e., In order to accuse me of using an\nunauthorized strong encryption technique they would have to take both\nkeys out of escrow, run them against my ciphertext and \"draw a blank\".", "In light of my recent paranoia concerning government proposals, I'd love to\nsee a UNIX-based encryption scheme that:\n\n1) Kept some files encrypted on the host machine (say, all the files in your\n home directory)\n2) Used a key system that could not be compromised by eavesdropping over a\n modem line.\n\nIt seems that this would require modifications to a shell program and a\nway of telling whether a file was encrypted or not, among other things.\n\nI'd love to know about potential security holes in such a system.\n\nDoes such a system exist? If it were made easy-to-use and readily\navailable, I think it would be a Good Thing(tm). I realize that this\nwould probably just involve putting a nice front-end on a readily available\nand very secure encryption scheme, but it should be done.", ": Since the law requires that wiretaps be requested by the Executive\n:Branch and approved by the Judicial Branch, it seems clear that one\n:of the key registering bodies should be under the control of the\n:Judicial Branch. I suggest the Supreme Court, or, regionally, the\n:Courts of Appeal. More specifically, the offices of their Clerks.\n\nI've got a better idea. We give one set to the KGB c/o Washington embassy,\nand the other set to the Red chinese.", "\n\n\nTrue of all security sytems, I think, and it is the fundamental measure to \nbe used in establishing a requisite security level.\n\n-- ", "\nWow, what a concept! Does anybody want to speculate on how this\n\"non-connection\" would fit into the theft of cable services laws?\nIt seems to me that unless this case is specifically written into\nthe legislation that the cable company would not have a leg to\nstand upon in court.\n\nDoes anybody out there have any specific legal knowledge on this?", "\nI hope there is something I don't understand about this system, but can\nsomeone tell me how these chips are going to be manufactured while maintaining\neach half key under total control of the separate escrow agencies? Don't\nboth halfs of the key have to come together (in some form) at the time\nthe chip is constructed?\n\nOr is it built like a fusable prom, with the chip being sent to the 1st\nescrow agency to program its 1/2 key, then the 2nd agency to program its\n1/2 key (but who invents the safeguards that prevent the 2nd agency from\nreading the information already programmed by the 1st)?\n\nThis isn't intended to be a flame or anything, I am just really curious\nhow to manufacture these things while still maintaining the key escrow\nsecurity without simply saying \"trust the manufacturer, they won't look\".", ": From: pmetzger@snark.shearson.com (Perry E. Metzger)\n\n: Indeed, were it not for the government doing everything possible to\n: stop them, Qualcomm would have designed strong encryption right in to\n: the CDMA cellular phone system they are pioneering. Were it not for\n: the NSA and company, cheap encryption systems would be everywhere. As\n: it is, they try every trick in the book to stop it. Had it not been\n: for them, I'm sure cheap secure phones would be out right now.\n\nIn the UK, it's impossible to get approval to attach any crypto device\nto the phone network. (Anything that plugs in to our BT phone sockets\nmust be approved - for some reason crypto devices just never are...)\n\nI was wondering some time ago how big a market there was for good old-\nfashion acoustic coupler technology to build a secure phone :-) ... is\nit possible to mask out all the real voice well enough so that none of\nit strays into the mouthpiece? Perhaps a well-sealed coupler attachment\nthat was as well blocked as possible, then a white noise generator on\nthe outside to muffle any real speech?", "\n\n\nThis is true for the mass market, but not for those who need strong crypto\nand are willing to pay the price. After all, one can buy strong crypto today\nif one is willing to spend enough.\n\nThus the concern is not economic.\n\nThe issue most worth worrying about is that after the system takes hold, the\ngovernment will outlaw other systems, and something voluntary will become\nthe only system available. That is a political, not an economic issue.\n\nAs a separate matter, you may be making an implied advocacy for cheap secure\ncrypto for everyone. It's true that the Clipper chip would probably prevent\nthat except via Clipper, but \"cheap, secure crypto for everyone\" is a\npolitical discussion, not an economic one, and the whole point of Clipper is \nto resolve that political (policy) tension between securing legitimate\ncommunications and tapping the crooks.\n", "\nNow why would anyone \"post\" anything encrypted? Encryption is only of \nuse between persons who know how to decrypt the data.\n\nAnd why should I care what other people look at? \n\nWhat does concern me is the continued erosion of my constitutional\nrights. ( Amendments I, II, IV, and V to note a few. )\n", "\n53 seconds to hash 20M of core (I bet I know who the source of your\ninformation is!). No, it's not acceptable if it's part of your login\nprocess. But if you are going to use network traffic as the source of\npseudo-random information, do the right thing and pass it through a\ncryptographic hash function, not a compressor. Aside from the fact\nthat it will run faster, it will give better results (think of a\ncryptographic hash as a function that \"distills\" randomness).\nSomething along the lines of \n\tetherfind -t -x -n | dd bs=1k count=10 2>/dev/null | md5\nshould do the trick. -t gives you timestamps, and the lack of -u makes\nsure that dd does not get ten lines as opposed to ten K. The above\ntakes a couple of seconds on a lightly-loaded ethernet.\n", " I would guess that they won't use Clipper at all. What they will\ndo is use their STU-IIIs amoung themselves and the governmental agencies\nthey need to talk to, and ignore Clipper. After all, if it's not secure\nenough for the agency/department they are communicating with why should\nthe coprations trust it?\n ", "\nNot enough magtape.\n\nSeriously, do you have any idea how much traffic flows through the US phone \nsystem in a single day?\n", "If we do not trust the NSA to be a registrar of Clipper Chip key halves,\nI would not trust Mitre either. Mitre does lots of work for NSA, at least\nin the Trusted Product Evaluation Program (evaluation of commercial off the\nshelf software for its efficacy in safeguarding classified information), and\nI assume in other, less open, programs.\n\nThere are at least two other FFRDCs (Federally Funded Research and Development\nCorporations) that work for NSA: Aerospace Corporation and the Institute for\nDefense Analysis. Now, if NSA were to be untrustworthy (a position that I\nam neutral about, for purposes of this posting), it would be in a position to\nexert economic pressure upon Mitre to release key halves on demand. It could\njust say, \"If you don't cooperate with us, we'll place all our evaluation\ncontracts with Aerospace and IDA.\"\n\nI am not saying that people at NSA, Mitre, Aerospace, or IDA are dishonest\nfolk. But since they are people, and people occasionally go bad, the\nsystem works better if organizations that you are depending upon to be\nindependent really are.\n\nAnd, of course, I speak for myself, not my employer.", "\nBig deal. If you are a legitimate law enforcement agent and have a\nlegitimate wiretap order, you just listen in on the line for 10\nminutes, get the serial number, and then take the order and go to the\nescrow agencies. If you notice the criminal is now using a different\nphone instrument, take your still-valid wiretap order to the escrow\nagency with the new serial number. (This provides opportunities for\nabuse by law enforcement, but thats not what we are discussing right\nnow.) I oppose Clipper, but the mechanics here are simple and easy to\nunderstand. The whole rest of your article is based on a large series\nof false premises, all predicated on the notion that this simple act\nis somehow impossible.\n\nI feel free to presume to tell you that you do not seem to understand\nthe mechanics of the proposal. Arguing that terrorists will be killing\npeople for their clipper phones is silly because its pointless. Lets\nbe alarmist about what really would show up as a problem, shall we?\n\n--\nPerry Metzger\t\tpmetzger@shearson.com", "\n If it's forbidden to inform someone of a police wiretap on their phone, then\nis it legal to work privtely as a \"sweeper,\" and report to the person you\nwork for whether you found a bug?\n", "\n\tI really like these claims. Where did they come from? We hear,\npractically daily, that the NSA monitors, oh, everything. They can\ncrack anything. They'd never release a cryptosystem they couldn't crack.\n\n\tWhere do people get these fascinating facts? 'The Puzzle Palace'?\nIf you can get it for a buck, 2nd hand, it must be true, eh? I'm pretty\nsure the NSA is supposed to, among many other things, provide high-quality\ncryptosystems to a variety of places. I don't recall reading anywhere\nreliable that they're supposed to:\n\n\t1) Monitor my phonecalls.\n\t2) Monitor usenet.\n\t3) Provide only cryptosystems they can easily crack.\n\t4) etc etc.\n\n\tThis is not to say that they *don't*, they might. But you don't\nknow that they do, and you have no evidence that they do, for almost\nall values of you. It follows, therefore, that for most values of 'you',\nyour claims about the NSA border on paranoia.", "\n\nIsn't there some *formal* action a citizen can take that *requires* the\nFCC to, at least, generate some paperwork?\n", "\n\nA nice formulation for the introduction of the first encryption\ndevices with built-in trapdoors - just like the Feds wanted...\n\n\nBla-bla.\n\n\nIndeed, and the current proposal does nothing to prevent the latter.\n\n\nThis doesn't say much. There are many incredibly weak encryption\nalgorithms in commercial use today...\n\n\nExcept from the government.\n\n\nNope. The criminals won't be stupid enough to use the new chip,\nthey'll use something secure. This technology provides only means to\nintercept the phone conversations of people who are stupid enough to\nuse it.\n\n\nThat is, the government has the keys. It doesn't matter much if they\nare in one or in two of its hands...\n\n\nCorrect. It does, however, provide those Americans with the false\nsense of privacy.\n\n\nIf the screening is not public, it cannot be trusted. Some people do\nnot trust DES even today, after all the examinations - only because\nsome parts of its design were kept secret.\n\n\nSo they'll use a different technology to hide their illegal\nactivities. So will those law-abiding citizens, who do not trust their\ngovernment not to misuse its abilities to decrypt their conversations.\n\n\nExcept from the government.\n\n\nHuh? Later it says that the new technology will be export restricted.\n\n\nIn short, the new technology can:\n\n1) Protect the law abiding citizen's privacy from the casual snooper.\n\nIt cannot:\n\n1) Protect him from the government, if it decides to misuse its\nability to decrypt the conversations.\n\n2) Protect him from the criminals who succeed to break the new\nencryption scheme or to steal the keys, or to bribe the people who\nhandle them, etc.\n\n3) Prevent the criminals from using secure encryption for\ncommunication.\n\n\n\nCorrect. However, it does not provide them that much privacy as it\nclaims.\n\n\n\nTwo candidates: the NSA and the Mafia.\n\n\n\nThat is, \"trust us\".\n\n\n\"Security through obscurity\".\n\n\nIf it's not entirely open to public examination, it cannot be\ntrusted. Besides, who can prove that the devices used for examination\nand the ones built into your phones will be the same?\n\n\n\nThe NSA and the FBI?\n\n\n\nWhy did they \"forget\" the Academia?\n\n\n\nDoesn't this smell to monopolism?\n\n\n\nLike the Mafia?\n\n\nThis is the main question, why was it buried at the end?\n\n\n\"We'll see\".\n\n\n\"Trust us\".\n\n\nIn short, \"If we decide to outlaw strong crypto, we'll tell you\".\n\n\nSince the US government seems to consider strong crypto as munitions\nand since the US constitutions guarantees the right to every American\nto bear arms, why is not every American entitled, as a matter of\nright, to an unbreakable commercial encryption product?\n\n\nBullshit. The proposed technology provides a false sense of security,\nencryption devices with built-in capabilities for breaking the\nencryption, does not prevent the criminals to use strong crypto, and\nis a step to outlaw strong crypto.\n\n\n\nWho was the optimist who believed that the new administration will\nleave the export controls on strong crypto devices?\n\nOK, I'm not American, it's not my business, but I just couldn't resist\nto comment... The whole plot looks so totalitaristic... It's up to\nyou, Americans, to fight for your rights.\n\nRegards,\nVesselin\n\nP.S. Now is the time for David Sternlight to pop up and claim that the\nnew system is great.", "\n\nNow THAT makes sense. But the other half must be in a non-government\nescrow. (I still like EFF, but I admin their security has not been\ntested.)\n", "\nNot when your talking about cryptography.\n\n\nThink again. You won't see me using apple's new signature from the\nfinder feature.\n\n\nThis analogy fails in its assumption that the government gives two\nsquirts about credibility.\n\n\nIn addition, Apple's proclaimed purpose in releasing the Macintosh wasn't\nsurvellience.\n\nQuite the opposite:\n\"On January 24, Apple will introduce.... Macintosh, and you'll see why\n1984 won't be, like '1984'\"\n\nSo don't give me any bullshit analogies about how we trust coke not to\nput mind control drugs in every can to get us to buy more.\n\n\n\nOne of the reasons we should be all the more suspicious. When was the\nlast time the president wasted his time to comfort americans?\nJust another reason to look closely at exactally what's going on.\n\n\nuni@acs.bu.edu", "Here are some ideas for those of you who want to oppose the White\nHouse Clipper chip crypto initiative. I think this is going to be a\ntough measure to fight, since the Government has invested a lot of\nresources in developing this high-profile initiative. They are\nserious about it now. It won't be as easy as it was defeating Senate\nBill 266 in 1991.\n\nPossible actions to take in response:\n\n1) Mobilize your friends to to all the things on this list, and\nmore.\n\n2) Work the Press. Talk with your local newspaper's science and\ntechnology reporter. Write to your favorite trade rags. Better yet,\nwrite some articles yourself for your favorite magazines or\nnewspapers. Explain why the Clipper chip initiative is a bad idea. \nRemember to tailor it to your audience. The general public may be\nslow to grasp why it's a bad idea, since it seems so technical and\narcane and innocent sounding. Try not to come across as a flaming\nlibertarian paranoid extremist, even if you are one. \n\n3) Lobby Congress. Write letters and make phone calls to your\nMember of Congress in your own district, as well as your two US\nSenators. Many Members of Congress have aides that advise them of\ntechnology issues. Talk to those aides.\n\n4) Involve your local political parties. The Libertarian party\nwould certainly be interested. There are also libertarian wings of\nthe Democrat and Republican parties. The right to privacy has a\nsurprisingly broad appeal, spanning all parts of the political\nspectrum. We have many natural allies. The ACLU. The NRA. Other\nactivist groups that may someday find themselves facing a government\nthat can suppress them much more efficiently if these trends play\nthemselves out. But you must articulate our arguments well if you\nwant to draw in people who are not familiar with these issues.\n\n4) Contribute money to the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) and\nComputer Professionals for Social Responsibility (CPSR), assuming\nthese groups will fight this initiative. They need money for legal\nexpenses and lobbying.\n\n5) Mobilize opposition in industry. Companies that will presumably\ndevelop products that will incorporate the Clipper chip should be\nlobbied against it, from within and from without. If you work for a\ntelecommunications equipment vendor, first enlist the aid of your\ncoworkers and fellow engineers against this initiative, and then\npresent your company's management with a united front of engineering\ntalent against this initiative. Write persuasive memos to your\nmanagement, with your name and your colleagues' names on it. Hold\nmeetings on it.\n\n6) Publicize, deploy and entrench as much guerrilla\ntechno-monkeywrenching apparatus as you can. That means PGP,\nanonymous mail forwarding systems based on PGP, PGP key servers,\netc. The widespread availability of this kind of technology might\nalso be used as an argument that it can't be effectively suppressed\nby Government action. I will also be working to develop new useful\ntools for these purposes. \n\n7) Be prepared to engage in an impending public policy debate on\nthis topic. We don't know yet how tough this fight will be, so we\nmay have to compromise to get most of what we want. If we can't\noutright defeat it, we may have to live with a modified version of\nthis Clipper chip plan in the end. So we'd better be prepared to\nanalyze the Government's plan, and articulate how we want it\nmodified.\n", "I was wanting to ask the same question Dan Bernstein asked--how does the\nClipper chip exchange keys? If the public key is only 80 or 160 bits long,\ndoes anyone know of any public-key schemes that are secure with that key\nsize? (Diffie-Hellman or maybe El Gamal, with p set to a constant value?)\n Presumably, the real scheme is something like:\n \n 1. Exchange/verify public keys.\n 2. Send encrypted (randomly-generated) session key.\n 3. Encrypt / Decrypt voice trafic with some sort of fast stream cipher.\n \n Can anyone elaborate on this, or show me what I'm missing here?", " \n \n It depends on the attack. Adding a bit to the key doubles the amount of\nwork to be done in a straight brute-force attack, where you try every single\npossible key until one works. Processing and storage requirements for this\nkind of attack on a 128-bit key seem like they ought to make it effectively\nimpossible. However, there may be other attacks whose difficulty is (for\nexample) proportional to, say, 2**sqrt(n), or some such. Also, a long\nkey does you little good if there is a way to incrementally guess a little\nof the key at a time....", "Does anyone know where I can get a hold of some secure encrypting chips\nor devices before they are banned completely?!?\n\nSteve\n", "\nPeople have been encrypting notes in their notebooks for hundreds of years\n-- maybe over a thousand. It's a long tradition dating at least back to\nthe alchemists.\n\nI know of nothing bad happening to them. I would assume that nothing bad\nwould happen to you, given this long history establishing encryption as\nthe property of individuals, to do with as they please.\n", "\nWell, they can't listen in on much of mine, since I already use\ncryptography for much of my electronic mail, and will start using it\nfor my telephony as soon as practical.\n\nHowever, allow me to tell a parable.\n\nThere was once a far away land called Ruritania, and in Ruritania\nthere was a strange phenonmenon -- all the trees that grew in\nRuritainia were transparent. Now, in the days when people had lived in\nmud huts, this had not been a problem, but now high-tech wood\ntechnology had been developed, and in the new age of wood, everyone in\nRuritania found that their homes were all 100% see through. Now, until\nthis point, no one ever thought of allowing the police to spy on\nsomeone's home, but the new technology made this tempting. This being\na civilized country, however, warrants were required to use binoculars\nand watch someone in their home. The police, taking advantage of this,\nwould get warrants to use binoculars and peer in to see what was going\non. Occassionally, they would use binoculars without a warrant, but\neveryone pretended that this didn't happen.\n\nOne day, a smart man invented paint -- and if you painted your house,\nsuddenly the police couldn't watch all your actions at will. Things\nwould go back to the way they were in the old age -- completely\nprivate.\n\nIndignant, the state decided to try to require that all homes have\nvideo cameras installed in every nook and cranny. \"After all\", they\nsaid, \"with this new development crime could run rampant. Installing\nvideo cameras doesn't mean that the police get any new capability --\nthey are just keeping the old one.\"\n\nA wise man pointed out that citizens were not obligated to make the\nlives of the police easy, that the police had survived all through the\nmud hut age without being able to watch the citizens at will, and that\nRuritania was a civilized country where not everything that was\nexpedient was permitted. For instance, in a neighboring country, it\nhad been discovered that torture was an extremely effective way to\nsolve crimes. Ruritania had banned this practice in spite of its\nexpedience. Indeed, \"why have warrants at all\", he asked, \"if we are\ninterested only in expedience?\"\n\nA famous paint technologist, Dorothy Quisling, intervened however. She\nnoted that people might take photographs of children masturbating\nshould the new paint technology be widely deployed without safeguards,\nand the law was passed.\n\nSoon it was discovered that some citizens would cover their mouths\nwhile speaking to each other, thus preventing the police from reading\ntheir lips through the video cameras. This had to be prevented, the\npolice said. After all, it was preventing them from conducting their\nlawful surveilance. The wise man pointed out that the police had never\nbefore been allowed to listen in on people's homes, but Dorothy\nQuisling pointed out that people might use this new invention of\ncovering their mouths with veils to discuss the kidnapping and\nmutilation of children. No one in the legislature wanted to be accused\nof being in favor of mutilating children, but then again, no one\nwanted to interfere in people's rights to wear what they liked, so a\ncompromise was reached whereby all homes were installed with\nmicrophones in each room to accompany the video cameras. The wise man\nlamented few if any child mutilations had ever been solved by the old\nlip reading technology, but it was too late -- the microphones were\ninstalled everwhere.\n\nHowever, it was discovered that this was insufficient to prevent\ncitizens from hiding information from the authorities, because some of\nthem would cleverly speak in languages that the police could not\nunderstand. A new law was proposed to force all citizens to speak at\nall times only in Ruritanian, and, for good measure, to require that\nthey speak clearly and distinctly near the microphones. \"After all\",\nDorothy Quisling pointed out, \"they might be using the opportunity to\nspeak in private to mask terrorist activities!\" Terrorism struck\nterror into everyone's hearts, and they rejoiced at the brulliance of\nthis new law.\n\nMeanwhile, the wise man talked one evening to his friends on how all\nof this was making a sham of the constitution of Ruritania, of which\nall Ruritanians were proud. \"Why\", he asked, \"are we obligated to\nsacrifice all our freedom and privacy to make the lives of the police\neasier? There isn't any real evidence that this makes any big dent in\ncrime anyway! All it does is make our privacy forfeit to the state!\"\n\nHowever, the wise man made the mistake of saying this, as the law\nrequired, in Ruritanian, clearly and distinctly, and near a\nmicrophone. Soon, the newly formed Ruritanian Secret Police arrived\nand took him off, and got him to confess by torturing him. Torture\nwas, after all, far more efficient than the old methods, and had been\nrecently instituted to stop the recent wave of people thinking obscene\nthoughts about tomatoes, which Dorothy Quisling noted was one of the\nmajor problems of the new age of plenty and joy.\n\n--\nPerry Metzger\t\tpmetzger@shearson.com", "I've been reading the sci.crypt, alt.privacy.clipper and comp.org.eff.talk\ndiscussions about the Clipper chip and find (as usual) that most of us\nthink alike -- so there's a lot of repitition. If each of these messages\nwere sent to Clinton as well as to the net (or instead of to the net), we\nmight actually have some effect.\n\n\t0005895485@MCIMAIL.COM (White House)\n", "\nI'm no defender of the AEC, but it is worth noting that it is unfair to tar\nthat organization with the decidedly minority scientific views of its\nformer chairperson and one term Washington governor, Dr. Dixie Lee Ray.\nDr. Ray's political agenda is well-known and documented. Likewise, her\nlack of objectivity in analysing scientific data is well-known.\n\njsh", " ...\n\n There's a better way. Doesn't Qualcom have a secure design\n that it decided not to market? Since they aren't going to\n use it, wouldn't the patriotic thing be to put the design in\n the public domain? How about selling a \"Cryptography\n Educational Kit\" with the critical parts? Something that could\n end up as a PC option board with two phone jacks?\n\n Cheers,\n Marc\n\n---\n Marc Thibault | marc@tanda.isis.org\n Automation Architect | CIS:71441,2226\n R.R.1, Oxford Mills, Ontario, Canada | NC FreeNet: aa185", "\nWhat they would need to do, though, is make sure that nobody has\naccess to decent crypto in the first place. They probably can't\ntell Clippered voice from Clippered triple-DESed voice until they\nget their copy of your key. Any criminal who's going to use\nencryption will do it under cover of Clipper. The only way to avoid\nthis will be to try to prohibit strong encryption.\n\nI probably shouldn't say this, but they could try to detect the use\nof an illegal cypher by transmitting in the clear some statistical\nproperties of the plaintext. An old-fashioned wiretap could then\ndetect the use of pre-encryption, which would drastically increase\nthe measured entropy of the input. A countermeasure to this would\nbe to use steganographic techniques which put out voice.\n\nYou can tell if the NSA built this feature in: blow on the mike, and\nobserve whether a band of thugs comes through your ceiling.", "\nThey also have a lot of the other voters really irritated at them.\n\n\nOkay, folks, I know I'm in the minority on this issue, but I can't\nlet this assertion go unchallenged yet again. I'm going to say this\nONLY ONCE, in the hopes of NOT starting a flame war off of the main\ntopic.\n\nGuns are offensive. Cryptography is defensive. See the difference?\nThe only way you can use a gun is to hurt somebody else. Crypto-\ngraphy helps prevent other people from hurting you.", "\n\nIt also falls within the purview of the ACLU, but that doesn't mean\nthe ACLU (or the EFF) would be the most effective instrument to \n\"win the hearts and minds\" in favor of access to cryptography. \n\nIt's precisely slogans like \"cryptography makes censorship impossible\"\nwhich stand to torpedo any attempt to generate a broad consensus in favor\nof encryption. It is not true, and in the context of a public debate it\nwould be a dangerous red herring. Advocates of strong crypto had better\nprepare themselves to answer such charges in pragmatic terms that laypeople\nand politicians can sympathize with. The usual mumblings about\nConstitutional amendments are not enough.\n\n", "\n Yow - get some sleep Brad! You mean that people (i.e. life-is-cheap\nterrorists & drug-dealing warlords) who want to communicate in privacy will\nprefer to break into my house, kill or kidnap me, and steal my telephone,\nrather than:\n\n - Spending $15 at K-mart to buy a new phone.\n\n - Purchasing a load of phones from the black market / flea market /\n super market.\n\n - Talking (*gasp*) face-to-face.\n\n - Walking down to any one of millions of pay phones.\n\n - Using messengers.\n\n - Going to excruciating effort to think of code phrases like \"I had\n a blowout on the freeway today\".\n\n Look, this system does nothing to threaten folks who _know_ they're\nbeing wiretapped, since it's trivial to find other avenues of communication;\nthey'd have no reason to resort to extreme measures, since a plethora of\nsimple alternatives are easily available to them.\n\n Among all the legitimate reasons to damn the proposed system, I don't\nthink we need to worry about terrorist commie drug warlord assasin thugs\nmurdering our families, kicking the dog and leaving the toilet seat up just\nto steal a $15 telephone. The system is more like urine testing: it\ncatches some small number of very stupid people, has no effect on the \"bad\nguys\" with at least three neurons working in unison who wish to subvert it,\nand penalizes most heavily those who have no cause to be subject to it.", "Well, it now seems obvious what Professor Denning was doing last fall\nwhen this key escrow trial balloon was raised!\n\nAll the more need for end-to-end encryption schemes that bypass the\ngovernment-approved system.\n\nBy the way, the \"Clipper\" name...isn't this already used for the\nClipper processor from Intergraph? I doubt they're the ones making the\nchip, so a name conflict may be present.\n\n-Tim May\n", "\n\n\n Lets carry this one step further. Suppose the text of the key is\nin itself conclusive evidence of the SAME CRIME for which the\nencrypted material is further evidence. I find myself envisaging a\nscenario like this:\n\nYou have made some scans of Peanuts strips. You encrypt them. The key\nis a phrase.\n\nThe Comic Police haul you in. They seize your system. They find the\nencrypted file.\n\nCP: \"Whats that file?\"\n\nYou: \"I take the fifth.\"\n\nCP: \"What's the keyphrase to that file?\" \n\nYou: \"I take the fifth.\"\n\nJudge: \"You have to reveal the keyphrase\" [I disagree, but I'm not a judge.]\n\nYou: \"Your Honor, revealing the keyphrase, in it's own right, would \n\ttend to incriminate me of breaking laws, independent of what \n\tmay or may not be in the encrypted file.\" \n\nJudge: \"I grant you immunity from whatever may be learned from the key\n\titself\"\n\nYou: \"The keyphrase is: \"I confess to deliberately evading copyright; \n\tthe file encoded with this keyphrase contains illegal scans of \n copyrighted Peanuts strips.\"\"\n\nJudge and CP: \"Oh.\"\n\n How will they get you now? I'm not saying that they won't, or\ncan't (or even that they shouldn't :-), but what legal mechanism will\nthey use? Should we be crossposting this to misc.legal?", "\nUmm... I beg to differ with the phrase ``only conceivable meaning''.\nThe SDNS protocols, for example, make explicit provision for multiple\nencryption systems, as does PEM. (And I'd love to see how they'd\nmandate this new system for PEM without disclosing it....)", "The question is not whether your radio will be stolen. The question is\nwhen your radio will be stolen.", "I have a bunch of questions about the encryption scheme\nreferenced in the Subject of this message. What is the relative data\nprivacy provided by the above sequence as compared with straight DES?\nDoes the addition of compression then encrypting make the cyphertext\nsignificantly harder to crack using current methods than straight DES?\nWould running crypt after DES provide greater data privacy? Is it\nimportant to remove the (constant) compress header before encryption?\nThank you, net, for your wisdom.", "I envision incorporation of new standart into\nvarious communication systems, thus making it prevalent on the market & \ntherefore cheap. The way to do that may be detaching crypto chip from \ncommunication equipment. It seems logical to provide Clipper chip \nto the end-user not as a part of phone, fax, modem & like but in the\nform of smart-card compatible with various telecomm. products. Banks \nwill encourage extensive use of new cards to make transactions by phone.\nNatural step will be to cross-reference this card to the person in the \ngovernment databases - or else this new version of \"wiretap proposal\" \nmake no sence at all; one wish to eavesdrop (spell.) on the particular \nperson, not on the particular modem or phone.\n \nAs a side note, I disagree with one poster, who said he won't care about\nability of the government to eavesdrop, since they can do that now \nanyway. Clipper will take away electronic survelliance from citizens, \nmaking it monopoly of the government. May be, we can find examples when\ninterceptions made by (unauthorised) people uncovered crimes of \nstate officials ?\n\n\n-- \n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n For PGP2.1 public key finger mkagalen@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu", "\n Each chip includes the following components:\n\n the Skipjack encryption algorithm\n F, an 80-bit family key that is common to all chips\n N, a 30-bit serial number\n U, an 80-bit secret key that unlocks all messages encrypted with the chip\n\nHmmm. A thirty bit serial number. And, we are told, the unit key U is\nderived deterministically from this serial number. That means that\nthere are only one billion possible unit keys.\n\n To generate the unit key for a serial number N, the 30-bit value N is\n first padded with a fixed 34-bit block to produce a 64-bit block N1.\n S1 and S2 are then used as keys to triple-encrypt N1, producing a\n 64-bit block R1:\n\n\t R1 = E[D[E[N1; S1]; S2]; S1] .\n\n Similarly, N is padded with two other 34-bit blocks to produce N2 and\n N3, and two additional 64-bit blocks R2 and R3 are computed: \n\n\t R2 = E[D[E[N2; S1]; S2]; S1] \n\t R3 = E[D[E[N3; S1]; S2]; S1] .\n\n R1, R2, and R3 are then concatenated together, giving 192 bits. The\n first 80 bits are assigned to U1 and the second 80 bits to U2. The\n rest are discarded. The unit key U is the XOR of U1 and U2. U1 and U2\n are the key parts that are separately escrowed with the two escrow\n agencies.\n\nHmmm. We must assume that generating the unit key U from the serial\nnumber N rather than generating it from a randomly selected U1 and U2\nis an intentional way of assuring a \"fail safe\" for the government --\nU is completedly determined given S1, S2 and N. If S1 and S2 do not\nchange they constitute effective \"master keys\" (along with F), the\ntheft of which (or the possession of which by various authorities)\ncompletely obviates the security of the system. However, more\ninterestingly, we know, for a fact that if S1 and S2 are fixed no\nmatter what the keyspace for U is no more than 2^30. Why not pick U1\nand U2 at random? Why this interesting restriction of they key space\nif it NOT to provide an additional back door?\n\nI find it disturbing that at the very best my security is dependant on\napproximately 30 bytes worth of information that could be written on\nthe back of a napkin.\n\nEven if S1 and S2 change periodically, the rationale behind this\nrestriction in the size of the keyspace seems strange if one is\nassuming that the goal is security -- and makes perfect sense if the\ngoal is an illusion of security.\n\nIf S1 and S2 do not change, even if they remain secret I wonder if\nthey can somehow be back-derived given enough unit key/serial number\npairs. We are assured that this cannot happen -- but no one\nunderstands how Skipjack works outside of government officials and,\nsoon, foreign intelligence services that gain the information via\nespionage. Presumably we will eventually have the information as well\n-- reverse engineering gets more and more advanced every year -- but\nby the time we know it may be too late.\n\n As a sequence of values for U1, U2, and U are generated, they are\n written onto three separate floppy disks. The first disk contains a\n file for each serial number that contains the corresponding key part\n U1. The second disk is similar but contains the U2 values. The third\n disk contains the unit keys U. Agent 1 takes the first disk and agent\n 2 takes the second disk. The third disk is used to program the chips.\n After the chips are programmed, all information is discarded from the\n vault and the agents leave. The laptop may be destroyed for additional\n assurance that no information is left behind.\n\nNone of this makes me feel the least bit secure. The silly notion of\n\"destroying the laptop\" appears to be yet another bizarre distraction.\nWe all know that you can't read data from DRAM that has been turned\noff for more than a few moments. On the other hand, what we don't know\nis why there is a need to generate the unit keys from S1 and S2 in the\nfirst place other than to weaken the system. We don't know if the\nagents in question would resist a million in cash a piece for their\ninformation -- its probably worth hundreds of million, so you can make\nthe bribe arbitrarily hard to resist. And to tell you the truth, doing\nthis in a \"vault\" rather than in Joe Random Tempest-shielded Room\nwith a laptop computer seems like melodrama designed to make\nhigh-school dropouts from Peoria impressed -- but it does very little\nfor most of the rest of us.\n\n The protocol may be changed slightly so that four people are in the\n room instead of two. The first two would provide the seeds S1 and S2,\n and the second two (the escrow agents) would take the disks back to\n the escrow agencies.\n\nWhat would this provide? Lets say the escrow agencies are the ACLU and\nthe NRA and their agents personally take back the disks and are always\nhonest. Who cares? The NSA must be laughing out loud, because they\nhave the algorithm to regenerate U given N and likely don't need to\nsteal they keys as they effectively already have them.\n\n--\nPerry Metzger\t\tpmetzger@shearson.com", "Here's a simple way to convert the Clipper proposal to an unexceptionable\none: Make it voluntary.\n\nThat is--you get high quality secure NSA classified technology if you agree\nto escrow your key. Otherwise you are on your own.\n\nDavid\n", "I sent a response to the White House at\n\n\t0005895485@MCIMAIL.COM (White House)\n\nand received a nice, automatic reply from MICMAIL noting, in passing, that\nif I had included a SNail address, I would get a reply in due course.\n\nFor those who care, my reply was:\n\n\t1.\tyes, let's protect the voice network\n\n\t2.\tprivately-developed crypto has always been available and\n\t\talways will be -- so let's think about how to do law\n\t\tenforcement given that fact not about how to hope to\n\t\tlegislate against it\n\n\t3.\tmy needs for crypto as a system designer are not met by the\n\t\tClipper Chip. I want freely to export uses of algorithms\n\t\t(like DES & RSA) which are already freely available in the\n\t\tdestination country\n", "\nYou've overlooked a fundamental Truth:\n\n\tboth headcount and budget of any government agency are\n\tmonotonic increasing functions.\n\nGiven that Truth, you need to look for what the agency can do to occupy\nall those people and spend all that money when crypto is unbreakable.\n\nPerhaps they could talk the world's telephone companies into making equipment\nthey could break into and tap.\n\nMaybe they could convince people that distributed computing was a good idea\nso that even the internal state of a process would be available for access\nby wiretapping.\n\nMaybe....\n", "] > Try reading between the lines David - there are *strong* hints in there \n] > that they're angling for NREN next,\n\n] Where? I honestly didn't see any...\n\nHint 1:\n\n: Sophisticated encryption technology has been used for years to\n: protect electronic funds transfer. It is now being used to\n: protect electronic mail and computer files. While encryption\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nHint 2:\n\n: This new technology will help companies protect proprietary\n: information, protect the privacy of personal phone conversations\n: and prevent unauthorized release of data transmitted\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n: electronically. At the same time this technology preserves the\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ \n: -- the privacy of our citizens, including the need to\n: employ voice or data encryption for business purposes;\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n: -- the ability of authorized officials to access telephone\n: calls and data, under proper court or other legal\n ^^^^^^^^\n: order, when necessary to protect our citizens;\n\nVERY BIG HINT 3:\n\n# The Administration is committed to working with the private\n# sector to spur the development of a National Information\n# Infrastructure which will use new telecommunications and computer\n# technologies to give Americans unprecedented access to\n# information. This infrastructure of high-speed networks\n# (\"information superhighways\") will transmit video, images, HDTV\n# programming, and huge data files as easily as today's telephone\n# system transmits voice.\n\nVERY BIG HINT 4: (See above)\n\n## Since encryption technology will play an increasingly important\n## role in that infrastructure, the Federal Government must act\n## quickly to develop consistent, comprehensive policies regarding\n## its use.\n\n] > and the only conceivable meaning of \n] > applying this particular technology to a computer network is that they \n] > intend it to be used in exclusion to any other means of encryption. \n\n] I disagree, if for no other reason than that there are already other \n] standards in place. Besides, even if they restrict encryption on the NREN, \n] who cares? Most of the Internet is commercial anyway. The NREN is only for \n] geovernment and university research (read the proposals--it's a \"data \n] superhighway\" for Cray users, not anything having to do with the Internet).\n\nOh, I see your point. I think you're wrong. But if you sit back and wait\nto find out if I'm right, it'll be too late. Just listen *very* carefully\nfor the first 'such and such will not be permitted on network XYZ' shoe to\ndrop.", "I have an idea as to why the encryption algorithm needs to be keep secret,\nand some things that i think it implies. (Of course these could all be\nwrong.....) \n\nfrom \n\n THE CLIPPER CHIP: A TECHNICAL SUMMARY\n Dorothy Denning\n Revised, April 21, 1993\n\n.\n.\n.\n\nThe Clipper Chip contains a classified single-key 64-bit block\nencryption algorithm called \"Skipjack.\" The algorithm uses 80 bit keys\n(compared with 56 for the DES) and has 32 rounds of scrambling\n(compared with 16 for the DES). It supports all 4 DES modes of\noperation. The algorithm takes 32 clock ticks, and in Electronic\nCodebook (ECB) mode runs at 12 Mbits per second.\n\nEach chip includes the following components:\n\n the Skipjack encryption algorithm\n F, an 80-bit family key that is common to all chips\n N, a 30-bit serial number (this length is subject to change)\n U, an 80-bit secret key that unlocks all messages encrypted with the chip\n\n.\n.\n.\n\nENCRYPTING WITH THE CHIP\n\nTo see how the chip is used, imagine that it is embedded in the AT&T\ntelephone security device (as it will be). Suppose I call someone and\nwe both have such a device. After pushing a button to start a secure\nconversation, my security device will negotiate an 80-bit session key K\nwith the device at the other end. This key negotiation takes place\nwithout the Clipper Chip. In general, any method of key exchange can\nbe used such as the Diffie-Hellman public-key distribution method.\n\nOnce the session key K is established, the Clipper Chip is used to\nencrypt the conversation or message stream M (digitized voice). The\ntelephone security device feeds K and M into the chip to produce two\nvalues:\n\n E[M; K], the encrypted message stream, and \n E[E[K; U] + N; F], a law enforcement field , \n\nwhich are transmitted over the telephone line. The law enforcement\nfield thus contains the session key K encrypted under the unit key U\nconcatenated with the serial number N, all encrypted under the family\nkey F. The law enforcement field is decrypted by law enforcement after\nan authorized wiretap has been installed.\n\n------------------\n\nsuppose i knew how the algorithm worked and knew the N for my chip, but\ndid not know F, then by cryptanalysis i might be able to determine F from\nif law enforcement field \n E[E[K; U] + N; F]\nnot knowing N would might make this much harder.\n\nNow suppose that I know F, (either legitimately or not),\nIf I know K (either because I am involved in the conversation, or I know U\nfor a party in the conversation), I may now be able to determine U for the\nother party.\n\nIf I know F I can also defeat the law enforcement field, since I could\nmake my own, with a different K then the one I am using. Knowing F also\nallows traffic analysis to be performed. So I might not know what you are\nsaying but I could know who you are saying it too.\n\nNow I admit that someone trying to compute U will not have lots of\nmessages to work from, but since we have no way of knowing that the key\ngeneration method does not (deliberately?) generate weak keys, or for that\nmatter that the published method is in fact used, perhaps the U's will be\nchosen from know weak keys for the system.\n\nObviously the compromise of F would be a disaster, both to law enforcement\nfor whom this whole thing is designed, and for the people who believe that\nit is giving them security. F is but one number, and I sure that alot of\npeople (more then 1) know what it is (and if some \"panel of experts\" is\ngoing to check it over for flaws then many more will know F, forget\ngrinding chips, bribery and blackmail work just fine.\n\nSo, am I wrong? Or are these problems.", "\n\nThey are using some technology developed by VLSI systems, the other manufacturer of\nthe Clipper Chips, that produces chips that are supposed to be highly resistant to\nreverse engineering.\n\n-- ", "The actual algorithm is classified, however, their main thrust here is\nfor cellular phones, and encryption is only over the radio end, not\nend to end, I think. End to end will come later.\n\nAnd of course you have to identify yourself to the phone company, and\nsince the phone company complies with court orders, they will know the\nmagic number of your chip when they sign out a warrant on you, and\nthen can present the warrant to the key escrow house.", "\nHey, it's better than the status quo.\n\nI am far less worried about \"the feds\" tapping my phone than high school \nscanner surfers who get their kicks out of eavesdropping on cellular and \ncordless phone calls.\n\nIt would be stupid to rely on even a \"Clipperized\" channel for truly \nsensitive material, but it *does* seem to finally offer a reasonable way to \nguard against casual eavesdropping. For example, even with my strong \"right \nto bear arms\" view of the private right to possess and use strong \ncryptosystems, the system as described provides enough security that I would \nactually buy a cordless phone, and would be much less wary of using cellular \nphones, walkie-talkies, and so on. As long as it's only used for mass-market \nvoice scrambling, I actually don't see a problem with it.\n\nIf you want more security than it offers, use something different. Use PKCS \nfor electronic mail, CELP over DES or triple DES with Diffie-Hellman key \nexchange for your voice traffic, or whatever.\n\nAnd yes, I'd rather just see all crypto restrictions lifted, but this is at \nleast an incrememental improvement for certain applications...\n", "\n\nLets hope. Years ago a Telecom tech refused to tap a line unless he saw the \nwarrant. The managment type who told him to do it fired him. The appeal\nagainst the dismissal was lost.\n\n\nGood luck.", "\n\n\n[much more deleted]\n\n\nHere is how! Lets write a DOCUMENT which includes all the reasons\nwe oppose Clipper, in clear, concise, non-techincal manner. I urge \neveryone of you to take the (very simple) \"start\" below and repost it\nwith changes. Let the text evolve until we reach something most of us\nlike. Then, all of you should send a copy (with a personnel letter)\nto your congress critter, local reporter on sci/tech, etc.\n\nPlease, to make this a success, try to post only an \"agreed\" version,\nnot flames. To respond to a flame to this, please change the subject\nto, e.g, \"clipper scope - discussion\".\n\n-- Michael Golan\n mg@cs.princeton.edu\n\n[all of these are points - which should be made into paragraphs]\n\nWhat is wrong with the clipper chip - By usenet users\n-----------------------------------------------------\n\n1) It is secret. \n2) How can we trust the escrow agencies?\n3) It is not cost-effective\n4) We want other encryption systems, the government seems to want to\n disallow it in the future\n5) Anyone can build a non-key system\n6) We are worried about a back door\n7) Once everyone uses a clipper chip, the mechanism for a Big-Brother\n government is in place, a change of government can lead to it. \n Especially since the escrow agencies operation is not governed by\n law (so the president can change the rules to allow free access to\n the keys at any time, e.g., during war)\n8) Few criminals are caught by wiretaps, the cost [and risks] are unjustified\n9) Once the FBI get hold of a key, it can decrypt past and future conversations", "\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\\\n Great... nice choice of bad guys to\n convince everyone how \"bad\" unrestricted\n encryption is. Why not use a child\n molester instead? Of course, the word\n *suspect* is never used here, so I guess\n these people have already been convicted\n and are operating this drug ring from\n their jail cells.\n\nHow about *this* question instead?\n\nQ: Suppose a law enforcement agency is conducting a wiretap on\n a political opponent of a senior administration official and\n intercepts a conversation...\n\nKinda changes your interpretation of the event, doesn't it? And yes,\nthe presence of the Clipper Chip DOES change things, because it will\nnot only give the people talking on the phone a false sense of security,\nit will also give federal law enforcement agencies the justification\nto deny use of strong encryption methods that are inconvenient to them.\nDang it all, it's SUPPOSED to be inconvenient (but not impossible).\nThat's the ONLY sure way to make sure that abuses are minimized while\nstill allowing legitimate law enforcement access.\n\n\n\nUh huh... sure. I predict that within two months (weeks?) of the chip's\ndebut, the full technical details will be posted to sci.crypt. And if\nthis has ANY impact on the security of the key escrow system, then we've\nbeen lied to. Any cryptosystem worth its salt can withstand the light\nof public scrutiny, and there is NO WAY you can be sure that an\nalgorithm has no \"unrecognized vulnerabilities\" unless you have half\nthe world trying to break it for a decade or so. Even then, you gotta\nbe careful.\n", "\nFor a good discussion of cryptographically \"good\" random number\ngenerators, check out the draft-ietf-security-randomness-00.txt\nInternet Draft, available at your local friendly internet drafts\nrepository. \n\nA reasonably source of randomness is the output of a cryptographic\nhash function (e.g., MD5), when fed with a large amount of\nmore-or-less random data. For example, running MD5 on /dev/mem is a\nslow, but random enough, source of random bits; there are bound to be\n128 bits of entropy in the tens (or hundreds) of megabytes of data in\na modern workstation's memory, as a fair amount of them are system\ntimers, i/o buffers, etc.", " I suspect that the decisive element in the political battle will be the\nFUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) factor.\n If the people who would be end users of the Cripple Chip hear of the whole\ndebate only vaguely -- the government says it's solid; other people in the\nfield say it's Swiss cheese -- the balance of doubt could shift against the\nFeds. Any attempt to limit other forms of encryption could then be presented\nas the government covering its own butt by protecting its poor product from\nsuperior competition.\n Comments?\n\n", "\nMy speculation does not include or depend upon a trapdoor in RSAREF. I\ndo not believe that RSA would consent to such. \n\nHowever, there are other limitation in the concept of RSAREF in which\nNSA has an interest. It has an interest in a limited number of\nimplementations, i.e., targets. It has an interest in fixed key or\nmaximum modulus size. \n\nIt has a legitimate (literally) right to pursue such interests. Within\nbounds, it probably has a right to pursue those interests by covert\nmeans. At least it has the same right as the rest of us not to disclose\nall of its motives and intentions. (Institutions are not self-aware;\nthey do not know their intentions in any meaningful sense.)", "\n\nIn the latest case in Denver, they were giving away tickets to a Denver\nNuggets basketball game. \n\nHow traceable is a money order? (I don't know. Haven't used one in 20 years)\n\nIs that even an issue if the weapons aren't checked for being stolen?", "\nDo not presume to tell me what I have and have not read. The system may\nnot rely upon registering people as owning particular phone units, but\nit is necessary to know which phone units are likely to be used for some\nsuspected criminal communication before you can obtain their unit keys\nfrom escrow. This necessity raises the stakes in favor of a criminal's\ncoercing or colluding use of some other person's Clipper phone.\n\nI will restate my assumptions more explicitly and amplify my argument.\nThe original title perhaps should have been \"Distinction between legal\nand illegal cipher systems considered harmful\", but \"Clipper considered\nharmful\" is not inaccurate, and is more eye-catching in the current context.\n\nAssumptions:\n\n 1. Clipper is made available.\n\n 2. Laws are passed to make use of cipher systems other than Clipper illegal\n (either on radio systems, or on any common carrier system). These laws\n also include enforcement authority to listen across the relevant radio\n spectrum (or other medium), characterize signals, validate Clipper\n wrappers, detect probable use of non-Clipper ciphers, and make such\n detection a cause for further action.\n\n 3. For escrowed keys to be useful, some specific Clipper chip must be\n associated with a suspected criminal. This means that at a minimum\n some association between the common carrier's unique phone ID (ESN) and\n the Clipper chip serial number N will be stored in a government database.\n An observed pairing of N and ESN other than the one recorded raises a\n red flag.\n\n 4. To reduce ordinary fraud, the cellphone system which offers Clipper\n will also be constructed with an ESN mechanism much more tamper-proof\n and much less spoofable than today's cellphones.\n\n 5. Criminals want inscrutable communications. Some criminals are not\n entirely stupid or ignorant, and will figure out both that Clipper\n cellphones offer excellent security in normal circumstances, and that\n they offer no security against law enforcement once a (presumably\n legitimate) wiretap order exists. They will also figure out that the\n wiretap order must necessarily be against a specific cellphone, because\n each one has a unique unit key.\n\n 6. Criminals do not want to call attention to themselves. Because they\n are not stupid or ignorant (or because they read netnews), and because\n they know that their open use of a non-Clipper cipher is likely to be\n detected, they will generally avoid using non-Clipper ciphers directly\n on some monitorable/tappable channel. They know that do so would raise\n a red flag, putting a given cellphone (if not a given person) under\n immediate suspicion.\n\n 7. It is impractical to reverse engineer Skipjack, discover family key F,\n and construct a functional clone of a Clipper chip.\n\nBy #2, #3, #4, and #7 it will be very difficult to spoof a given Clipper\nphone without immediate detection. Because it is difficult to obscure one's\nassociation to a specific phone by reprogramming or changing chips\naround, the criminal will be motivated to find an intact phone which is\nassociated with someone else.\n\nA non-stupid criminal will conclude that they can have Clipper-secure\ncommunications, at least for some limited time T, if they buy, beg, borrow,\nor steal use of someone's phone in a way that prevents that person from\nreporting compromise of the phone for at least time T. The encrypted\ncommunications might have been recorded, and thus be retrievable later,\nbut the criminal can delay, and quite likely evade, discovery by destroying\nor abandoning the phone before T elapses.\n\nIt would be unusual for an innocent person to volunteer use of their Clipper\nphone to someone else. The honest subscriber doesn't want to pay someone\nelse's bill, and he doesn't want to fall under suspicion.\n\nThis leaves two sources of Clipper phones for criminal use: coercion\nand collusion.\n\nCoercion first. Theft bears a relatively low risk, but also sometimes\na low time until detection (a few minutes if a phone is stolen from\na car parked in front of a store, a couple of weeks if a phone is stolen\nfrom someone who is away on vacation). Criminal commerce is likely to\narise in stolen Clipper phones, with phones coming from risk-inured poor\ncriminals, and cash coming from risk-averse wealthy criminals. Someone\nwho is extraordinarily motivated to gain a day or two of undetected\ncommunication (like a terrorist) could kill a person or hold them hostage.\nThe limited time (before detection) that a coerced phone is useful means\nthat continuing criminal enterprises require a continuing supply of\nfreshly coerced phones.\n\nThere would also be created a collusive commerce between relatively\nwealthy criminals, and ignorant or don't-care patsies who need money,\nand who will submit to being paid in return for subscribing to Clipper\nphone service for someone else's use.\n\nCriminals will learn that it is more to their advantage to coerce use of a\nClipper cellphone than it is to apply a non-Clipper cipher to a normal\ncellphone. They will call much less attention to themselves (or at least to\ntheir stolen phone) this way. The fact of a phone's use being coerced must\nfirst be reported before it can be identified as an interesting phone, and\nhave its keys obtained from escrow.\n\nClipper also allows an extraordinary opportunity for the criminal to\nconceal use of super-encryption. An automated full-system surveillance\nmechanism (quite feasible across radio bandwidth) which knows family key F,\ncan validate Clipper wrappers and N:ESN associations, but it cannot reveal\nin realtime the use of super-encryption, unless it knows all unit keys,\nwhich we are being assured are only to be made available in two separate\npieces, upon specific wiretap-like order.\n\nWhereas a criminal's use of any cipher within a normally cleartext medium\nwould stand out, a criminal's use of a non-Clipper cipher within a Clipper\nmedium would be very difficult to detect, even ex post facto in bulk\nrecordings, as long as the association between criminal and specific Clipper\nchip is fractured.\n\nIf you make use of this other cipher illegal per se, then you can charge\nthe criminal with this (if you can identify the true criminal - he'll be\nusing someone else's phone), but you'll have no evidence to help you against\nwhatever traditional crime he might have been planning. You will not even be\nable to detect that unusual (encrypted) communications are occurring until you\nidentify specific phones and obtain their keys from escrow.\n\nThe gangster and terrorist are thus arguably more, not less, secure than\nthey were before Clipper came along.\n\nI therefore consider Clipper harmful because:\n\n 1. It does not provide absolute privacy to the honest public against\n aggressive or dishonest government.\n\n 2. If other ciphers are proscribed, it engenders new types of direct\n criminal threat to the honest public.\n\n 3. It provides an extraordinarily effective mechanism for criminals to\n hide their use of some other cipher, making it more difficult than\n ever even to gain notice that unusual communications are occurring\n and that plans for some criminal act might be in progress.\n\n 4. If other ciphers are proscribed, lazy investigators and prosecutors\n are more likely to pursue the easily quantifiable cipher-use crime\n than they are the traditional and directly harmful crimes which key\n escrow is claimed to help against.\n\n 5. If other ciphers are proscribed, the stage is set for witch hunting\n of \"illegal\" cipher use. Because any computer can be used as a cipher\n machine...", "\nThe original one-way encryption I put into Multics about 1968 (as suggested\n\nby Joe Weizenbaum) was invertible. An Air Force tiger team demonstrated \nthis to me in May 1973. I then asked an expert (who requested anonymity) \nwhat I should use instead; the expert's suggestion was to treat the \n8-byte password as both key and data for the LUCIFER encryption algorithm, \nwhich is similar or identical to DES. This method or something stronger \nshould take care of (a). Issue (b) is discussed in comp.security.misc: \nlonger passwords and quality control on what users can choose as passwords\nare the common tactics.", " Hmmm... given the error corrections in modern audio CDs, is\nSteve> it sufficient to simply instruct your agent to decrypt using\nSteve> the bit stream from the second cut of the latest Garth Brooks\nSteve> CD, or are the usual number of bit errors found acceptable in\nSteve> commercial CDs because of that error correction enough to\nSteve> garble the message if such a method is used?\n\nOne unreliable data point: while looking over the shoulder of a\nrecording engineer, I decided that he was seeing a raw error rate of\nabout 1 in 1e6 on a CD ``master.'' Both the extrapolation to\nmass-market CDs and my state of mind while doing the arithmetic (I was\nwaiting for him to finish so we could go get something to eat) are\nquestionable. ", "\nI have a couple reasons why I would be more likely to trust this algorithm:\n\t1. The algorithm will be made totally public, once it is patented.\n\t2. The keys will NOT be escrowed.\nOf course if either of these is not true, I will not use this new algorithm.\nSince I have never seen this new algorithm, I have no idea how secure it is\nyet.\n\nI can't make any judgements about the algorithm itself yet, but I do notice\nthat the creators of this algorithm are being more open about how the\nthing works, and is willing to make it public, showing that after a bit\nof scrutiny, any weaknesses will probably be revealed, while we don't know\nabout Clipper.\n\nDoug Holland\n", "Here are some corrections and additions to Hellman's note, courtesy of\nDorothy Denning. Again, this is reposted with permission.\n\nTwo requests -- first, note the roles of S1 and S2. It appears to me\nand others that anyone who knows those values can construct the unit\nkey. And the nature of the generation process for K1 and K2 is such\nthat neither can be produced alone. Thus, the scheme cannot be\nimplemented such that one repository generates the first half-key, and\nanother generates the second. *That* is ominous.\n\nSecond -- these postings are not revealed scripture, nor are they\ncarefully-crafted spook postings. Don't attempt to draw out hidden\nmeanings (as opposed to, say, the official announcements of Clipper).\nLeave Denning out of this; given Hellman's record of opposition to DES,\nwhich goes back before some folks on this newsgroup knew how to read, I\ndon't think you can impugn his integrity.\n\nOh yeah -- the folks who invented Clipper aren't stupid. If you think\nsomething doesn't make sense, it's almost certainly because you don't\nunderstand their goals.\n\n\t\t--Steve Bellovin\n\n-----\n\nDate: Sun, 18 Apr 93 07:56:39 EDT\nFrom: denning@cs.georgetown.edu (Dorothy Denning)\nSubject: Re: Clipper Chip\nTo: (a long list of folks)\n\nI was also briefed by the NSA and FBI, so let me add a few comments to\nMarty's message:\n\n The Clipper Chip will have a secret crypto algorithm embedded in \n\nThe algorithm operates on 64-bit blocks (like DES) and the chip supports\nall 4 DES modes of operation. The algorithm uses 32 rounds of scrambling\ncompared with 16 in DES.\n\n\tIn addition to the system key, each user will get to choose his \n\tor her own key and change it as often as desired. Call this key \n\tplain old K. When a message is to be sent it will first be \n\nK is the session key shared by the sender and receiver. Any method\n(e.g., public key) can be used to establish the session key. In the\nAT&T telephone security devices, which will have the new chip, the key\nis negotiated using a public-key protocol.\n \n\tencrypted under K, then K will be encrypted under the unit key UK, \n\tand the serial number of the unit added to produce a three part \n\tmessage which will then be encrypted under the system key SK \n\tproducing\n\n\t E{ E[M; K], E[K; UK], serial number; SK}\n\nMy understanding is that E[M; K] is not encrypted under SK (called the\n\"family key\") and that the decrypt key corresponding to SK is held by\nlaw enforcement. Does anyone have first hand knowledge on this? I\nwill also check it out, but this is 7am Sunday so I did not want to wait.\n\n The unit key \n\twill be generated as the XOR of two 80-bit random numbers K1 \n\tand K2 (UK=K1+K2) which will be kept by the two escrow \n\nThe unit key, also called the \"chip key,\" is generated from the\nserial number N as follows. Let N1, N2, and N3 be 64 bit blocks\nderived from N, and let S1 and S2 be two 80-bit seeds used as keys.\nCompute the 64-bit block \n\n R1 = E[D[E[N1; S1]; S2]; S1] \n\n(Note that this is like using the DES in triple encryption mode with\ntwo keys.) Similarly compute blocks R2 and R3 starting with N2 and N3.\n(I'm unlear about whether the keys S1 and S2 change. The fact that\nthey're called seeds suggests they might.) Then R1, R2, and R3 are\nconcatenated together giving 192 bits. The first 80 bits form K1 and\nthe next 80 bits form K2. The remaining bits are discarded.\n\n\tauthorities. Who these escrow authorities will be is still to be \n\tdecided by the Attorney General, but it was stressed to me that \n\tthey will NOT be NSA or law enforcement agencies, that they \n\tmust be parties acceptable to the users of the system as unbiased. \n\nMarty is right on this and the FBI has asked me for suggestions.\nPlease pass them to me along with your reasons. In addition to Marty's\ncriteria, I would add that the agencies must have an established record\nof being able to safeguard highly sensitive information. Some suggestions\nI've received so far include SRI, Rand, Mitre, the national labs (Sandia,\nLANL, Los Alamos), Treasury, GAO.\n\n\tWhen a court order obtains K1 and K2, and thence K, the law \n\tenforcement agency will use SK to decrypt all information \n\tflowing on the suspected link [Aside: It is my guess that \n\tthey may do this constantly on all links, with or without a \n\tcourt order, since it is almost impossible to tell which links \n\tover which a message will flow.] \n\nMy understanding is that there will be only one decode box and that it\nwill be operated by the FBI. The service provider will isolate the\ncommunications stream and pass it to the FBI where it will pass through\nthe decode box, which will have been keyed with K.\n\n\tfor \"the wiretap authorizations.\" When Levy asked for\n\tthe details so he could review the cases as required by\n\tlaw, the agent told him that his predecessors just turned\n\tover 40-50 blank, signed forms every time. Levi did not\n comply and changed the system, but the lesson is clear: \n No single person or authority should have the power to\n authorize wiretaps\n\nNo single person does, at least for FBI taps. After completing a mound\nof paperwork, an agent must get the approval of several people on a chain\nthat includes FBI legal counsel before the request is even taken to the\nAttorney General for final approval.", "\n\nYes, you can use a stream cipher chip to hash data with only slight \nmodification. See:\n\n`A fast cryptographic checksum algorithm based on stream ciphers', X Lai,\nRA Rueppel, J Woolven, Auscrypt 92 pp 8-7 to 8-11.", "The stragegy of the government is interesting. The real fear comes from\nthem doing more than this.\n\nThis is a voluntary program, and thus harder for us to object to on\nthe surface.\n\nTheir strategy is a business one rather than legal one. They are\npushing to get a standard in place, a secret standard, and if they\nget it as a standard then they will drive competitors out of the market.\nIt will be legal to sell better, untapable encryption that doesn't have\nregistered keys, but it will be difficult, and thus not a plan for\nmost phone companies.\n\nYou see, with clipper chip phones you'll be able to talk to any\ncellular company, or other phones or ports because they will follow\nthe standard. AT&T has already announced a clipper chip encryption\nproduct. The government has marketed hard to get major vendors to\nuse these chips. If they get enough market share, they will rule.\n\nAnd thus there will be very little market for systems that can't be\ntapped by the police. The public isn't that concerned about it now,\nafter all. They freely do calls that anybody with an old TV can listen\nto today! They won't pay big extra bucks for proprietary phones that secure\nthem only from the police.\n\nWell, some people will buy these phones, but they will only work with\nother proprietary phones, so the market will be small and the phones\nexpensive. Unless they are made in numbers large enough to sell them\ncheap, only the Mob will buy them.\n\nAnd this means that the FBI will want to track the customer lists of\nbetter encryption phones, because \"the only reason a person would want\none is to evade the police.\"\n\nInteresting.", "It seems pretty obvious that it will be made illegal if VERY LOUD NOISE is\nnot made about this IMMEDIATELY to Congress and the House!\n\n \nI don't know what's worse - the waste of money, or the fact that (in SPITE\nof all Clinton's rhetoric to the contrary) this is a feeble attempt by\na large group of bored intelligence bureaucrats to justify their currently\nuseless jobs. Clinton said he was going to trim the fat from the government.\nThis doesn't look very dietetic to me! \n\nAs I said before in this group: drug dealing and terrorism both tend to\nbe international crimes which are not going to cease if the US starts to\nregulate encryption. The drug dealers and terrorists will simply go to\nother countries to communicate their plans, and will still carry them out\nhere and/or wherever else. This is not the solution to the problem.\n\nThey try to invent a new problem by saying we \"need\" encryption. I guess\nit's a good thing Bill Gates isn't a 4-star general or we would all \"need\"\nour own copies of MS-DOS too, right?\n\nUnd vee haff vays uff findink out iff you are usink DOCTOR DOS!!\n\n\nOur health care and education systems are in the toilet and they come up\nwith THIS pearl. If this goddamned government doesn't get a clue real quick\nand start trying to repair the infrastructure of the country rather than\ninventing someone to blame, Germany and Japan are going to eat the US alive,\nand we will deserve it. It's not like there's any shortage of REAL problems\nto solve, guys! \n\nA Clipper chip is really going to help the homeless! A Clipper chip is\nreally going to help educate the children in the ghettos of our cities!\nJust think of the generation gap that can be developed when they rehire\nDoD engineer dad to work on Clipper chips that will be used to decrypt\nslightly rebellious adolescent hacker son's naughty GIF files! I can see\nthe shitcom already.\n\nIf that wasn't a forged post or a sick joke, I'm popping that Dead Kennedys\ntape into the car stereo and tearing ass to Canada. Clinton on White Horse\nis near. It's the suede/denim secret police! They have come for your uncool\nniece! Don't worry it's only a phone...shit, I knew I should have gotten\nsome of those \"consent to monitoring\" stickers they keep on Autovon phones\nwhen I had the chance. I should have known I'd need them in civilian life.\n", "\nIt just occurred to me why the algorithm is secret. If it were\npublished, one could then build physically identical clone versions\nof the chip that would interoperate with official Clipper chips. But\nthe cloner wouldn't provide the keys to the escrow houses. Hmmn.\n\nOr is there a technical hack that I've missed? E.g. how about if the\nchips were made unprogrammed but serialized, and then shipped to the\ntwo escrow houses who programmed in their halves of the keys, but\nin a way that requires that secret keys known only to the escrow houses\nbe installed as well, without which clone versions wouldn't\ninteroperate? This is getting awfully complicated, but that's\ncrypto for you.\n", "I was annoyed to find that this guy posted my private e-mail response to\nhim, but since I believe what I said, I'll defend it anyway.\n\n\n\nBy \"almost\" I mean the differential cryptanalysis attack. The chosen\nplaintext attack requires a detailed analysis of about 2^36 chosen plaintexts\ndrawn from a total of about 2^47 that need to be run, if I understand the\nsituation correctly. This is certainly a \"break\" under the meaning of the\nAct, but does not constitute much less work than the brute force keysearch.\n\nThe rest of his article assumes that we can figure out the Skipjack\nencryption algorithm E by choosing the correct data to send through it and\nobserve the results. I wish him joy of it, and choose not to try that attack.\n\nI am not defending the system, and in fact am offended by the ideas of\nescrowed keys or a secret algorithm becoming a de facto industry standard.\nHowever, I also object to opposing it for the wrong reasons, since that\nweakens the case against it.\n\nI said (in my private e-mail):\n\nNo, it's quite different. The government would have no percentage in\nchoosing F to be a weak key, since it's not to their advantage to have\nanybody else know it. The \"experts\" could thus assume that F is no worse\nthan anything else during their analysis. Totally different situation\nfrom unknown S-boxes. Again, I'm not saying it would be good or\nsatisfactory for the experts to just be given the raw algorithm without\nthe rest of the surrounding details regarding the chip and protocols and\nso on -- simply that I doubt that they be given all the\ninformation.", " A 'multi-line cleartext bridge?\"\n ^^^^^^^^^\n And just were would you put that bridge? If it isn't at one of\nthe receiptants location, forget encryption at all. You have blown any\nsecurity you thought you might have had. ", "Since the AT&T wiretap chip is scheduled to be distributed \ninternationally, allowing the U.S. government to spy on foreign \ngovernments, companies and people as as well as to wiretap domestic \ncitizens, this is a world-wide issue. Thus Distribution: world.\n\n\n\nWhy do we hackers care about the Clipper chip? Do we give a shit\nabout anybody's privacy accept our own? And perhaps not even our\nown; are we so smart that we always know when we're talking to\nsomebody who has a wiretap on their phone?\n\nI find the \"call thru your computer\" ideas may reflect this attitude.\nIdeas that are of, by, and for hackers, and don't help anybody in the\nreal world, aren't going to do anybody much good, including ourselves\nwhere voice phones are concerned.\n\nWe *do* need an alternative to NSA-bugged telephones, but\nwe're talking inexpensive *telephones* here, including hand-sized\ncellulars, that need strong crypto, real privacy. Make-shift\ncomputer hacker rigs that require living by your computer to\ntalk privately over the phone are just a dumb stunt that doesn't \ndo anything for anybody's privacy in the real world. \n\nWhat we need is a true *privacy chip*. For example, a real-time \nvoice-encryption RSA, silicon compile it and spit out ASIC. \nPut this chip on the market as a de facto standard for international \nbusiness, diplomats, and private communications. If the U.S. bans \nit, we make it somewhere else and import it. The Japanese, German,\nDutch, Taiwanese, Korean, etc. electronics companies don't want the \nNSA spying on them. U.S. workers lose more jobs to government fascist\nstupidity.", "The cryptographic algorythm MUST be kept secret, or\nprivate individuals could make ClipperClones with\nwhich they could transmit messages which the feds would not have\nready access to. This is clearly unacceptable.", "\n While also allowing law enforcement agencies to intercept phone\nconversations of criminals *and* non-criminals unlawfully. (\"No, Rev.\nKing, we aren't spying on you.\")\n\n I wonder how long it will take for \"the wrong people\" to put their\nhands on the equipment necessary to read this stuff. It'll probably\nbe as safe as weapons locked safely in evidence rooms.\n\n\n And people to whom they sell them to. All it takes is corrupting\nthe right guy. No, that never happens.\n", "What is the reason for the push on clipper?\n\nTwo days after the lead story here in the Mercury Times (murky news)\nthere was another article on industrial espionage by the french.\n\nSomeone had said what can it hurt to allow the government to have\ncontinued access to our communications, they already have it. The\nproblem is that, yes the do have access, and probably more than\nwe realize. The government wants exclusive access to communications\nintercept here in the united states, cutting out other access detrimental\nto the national security (tm).\n\nI also doubt that a certain3 letter agency, that originated the encryption\nalgorithm and the chip designs needs to have anything to do with the \nescrow system to continue their intercept effort. ", "(alt.security.clipper added, to keep them informed of this issue)\n\n\n....\n: The proposal could be modified so that if they get a court order to tap you\n: and don't charge you with a crime within, say, 90 days, they have to buy you\n: a new phone.\n: \n: If they do charge you, and you are found innocent, they have to buy you a\n: new phone.\n: \n: :-)\n\nYes, but will they buy you a ticket on a time machine to allow you to\ngo back and use the phone with the new key instead of the phone whose\nkey they obtained?\n\nIt is unclear whether obtaining the key at time 0 also unlocks\nmessages recorded (by whomever) at earlier times. The announcement was\nsilent on this. The betting seems to be that once your key has been\nobtained (by the authorities, by divorce lawyers, by the Mafia, by the\nFBI, by lost or stolen backup tapes, by the NSA, etc.). all previous\nconversations are unsecure. (Session keys are negotiated, but knowing\nthe private key is believed by many commentators here to break the\nsecurity. No doubt more details will emerge.)\n\nSo, the loss of a key, whether one is guilty or innocent, may mean a lot\nmore than merely replacing the phone.\n\nSort of like saying to someone, \"Oh, I copied your diary. But I'll buy\nyou a new one.\"\n\n\nAnd the system, if made mandatory (as I expect), will make such\nstoring of conversations much easier, I fear. For one thing, the\ntransmission of the escrow key field acts as a clear signal to anyone\nlistening, a kind of \"Caller ID\" and \"Callee ID\" on a grand scale.\nAlso, the phone companies may not care as much about protecting the\nprivacy of the calls, as they perceive them all to be useless\nencrypted junk. (This is a bit of a reach, I know, suggesting that the\nClipper will make security more lax...).\n\nAnyway, still lots of issues unresolved.\n\n\n-Tim May\n\n", "\nYow! Am I ENCRYPTING yet?\n\nDidn't we go over this guns'n'crypto discussion a few months ago? Must\nwe go over it again?", "\nIf you put another computer on the port instead of the key, you can hack \nthem by reading what happens. So I've been told, I've never seen this done \nbut I think it's possible. You'd need some hardware knowledge and some \nsoftware to read the port!\n\n\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGuido Klemans\n\nInternet: rcstage1@urc.tue.nl valid until 16 may 1993\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n'Listen very carefully, I will say this only once.' Michelle of the resitance\n", " OK, Doug is right, it would be obstruction of justice, blah blah blah,\nBUT, saying \"I forgot\" is a lie, which is just as bad from a moral point\nof view _IF_ you think \"lawfulness\" is a good in and of itself (which \nadmittedly most people do not.) But there's an even better way out of this.\nPROVIDED the government is prosecuting you criminally, you can probably\nplead the fifth amendmeent and thus LEGALLY avoid revealing your key. The\ngovernment cannot demand information from a criminal defendant which \"may\ntend to incriminate\" that defendant. Though this has never been applied\nin the cryptography context (at least as far as I can tell) it seems an\nobvious application to me. \n\n This may be a common suggestion in this group, but if it's not (I'm new\nhere) I'd love to hear what people have to say about it. Since I don't\nreally read this group (and since the subject matter is more legal than\ncryptoid) maybe misc.legal.computing would be an appropriate place?\n\n Steve.\n", "NPR this morning had an interview with Linda McCarthy (name possibly\ngarbled by me), an official historian for the CIA. She has won an Emmy\nfor research on Moe Berg for a TV documentary (which I know from nothing\nbut which sounds good). She said that among other things, Berg was the \nprincipal spy for the OSS (CIA's WWII precursor) spying on Axis atomic\nprograms, because of his physics background and language skills. She said\nthat during the war he met with Heisenberg in Switzerland, and had \ninstructions to shoot Heisenberg if the Germans were close to us in bomb\nresearch (he concluded they were two years behind, and didn't shoot him).\n(I have heard elsewhere that Heisenberg deliberately misled the Nazi bomb\nprogram, but I don't know how reliable this is.) Unfortunately, NPR didn't\nmention any kind of a book she's writing -- I'd certainly buy it.\n\n(In case you're wondering about baseball relevance, Berg was a longtime\nMLB backup catcher. He was a member of an MLB All-Star team that toured\nJapan in 1934, presumably not because of his baseball prowess but because\nhe was one of the few Americans, much less MLB players, who spoke Japanese.\nPhotos he took of Tokyo on that trip were later used to plan bombing raids,\naccording to McCarthy.)", "I am testing IDEA block cipher implementations for correctness\nand needs some golden test vectors. I've looked through\nthe postscript IDEA chapter but the single example gives me\nzero degrees of freedom. I'll contact the inventor if necessary\nbut since we are NOT paying him money for use of his invention,\nI'd like to offload this from him. Anybody got vectors?\n(No disease vectors, please).\n", " \n \n Actually, David, I don't think it's any more intellectually honest to\nsay there are no backdoors than to say there are backdoors, unless you've\nhad a chance to examine the algorithm and the silicon closely. For all\nwe know, skipjack could be easily broken, or impossible to break. And\nclearly, if skipjack is not secure, then the clipper chip is not worth much.", "\nPlease let us know if you get a solid answer to the question of legality\nof other strong cryptosystems. So far any references I have seen\nhave been weasel-words (\"more plans in the future, etc\"), but nothing\nthat could be taken as a \"NO (strong crypto will NOT be outlawed)\". I\nhave heard (not verified) that the Crime Bill before Congress has\nlanguage that either requires escrow of keys, or that will regard\nall systems 'unapproved' for public use, like strong cryptosystems\nnot trivially broken by the Govt, or without escrowed keys\nwhich one cannot readily change (read: use being only permitted by\nfolks with 'special' connections, or government agencies) as either\n'terrorist tools' or 'drug dealers tools'. Not outlawed SPECIFICALLY\nbut by added Civil Forfeiture powers, and clever wording, EFFECTIVELY\noutlawed for all intents and purposes.\n\nNow, for some idle speculation ... for those who don't care, hit 'n' now.\n\nCrypto being EFFECTIVELY outlawed could be done without SPECIFICALLY\noutlawing ANY class of crypto systems. For example, a crowbar, hammers,\nscrewdrivers, and such can be regarded as 'burglar tools' pretty much\nat the whim of the authorities, based primarily on the individual\npossessing them in the car, etc. not being in a trade that makes routine\nuse of these tools. In a like manner, one who has no 'legitimate need'\n(gov't definition) for strong crypto software or systems, and is caught\nusing them, might find themselves in possession of 'terrorist tools'.\nIn other words, if one is not working for a corporation with extremely\nsensitive commercial data that warrants (in the Fed's opinion) strong\nsecurity, or a government agency, and securing only work-related data,\nnot personal data, one will most likely be nailed on this if discoverd.\nA personal desire for 'privacy' most certainly will not be regarded as\na 'legitimate NEED': \n\"Why do you want such strong security, especially from 'legitimate law\nenforcement'? An individual with 'legitimate' endeavors would not be so\nconcerned - government is not in the business of revealing your personal\nsecrets to the public... so you must be trying to conceal or planning\nto conceal some unlawful or criminal activity... DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING\nTO HIDE, HMMMM?\"\nI expect that initially there will be some people selected either at\nrandom, or who happen to have been 'troublemakers' for the purposes of\n'making an example' for those who think the Feds are not SERIOUS about\nthis... (mega ':-('s)\n\nOne asking about a 'right' to privacy will probably get a response that\nthere is no constitutional right for privacy spelled out AS SUCH (an\nargument used in the abortion debate): \"You do NOT have a right to have\nsecurity that 'Legitimate Law Enforcement cannot break'\" (as suggested\nin the Clipper Press Release).\n\nThis, in a nutshell, is what I find so extremely frightening. Not only\nfor crypto systems, as in this case, but for the precident it will set,\nlaying the groundwork for future erosions of privacy (escrow of both\nsafe-deposit box keys - 'master' keys or combinations for privately\nowned safes, and so on. WHY NOT?)...\n\nI cannot think of a better way to make an 'end-run' around those\n'inconvenient' parts of the US Constitution. A law cannot be easily\ndeclared unconstitutional, if it there IS NO SPECIFIC LAW. It would\nsimply be a minor extension of the RICO statutes or WoD policies. A\nsimple policy decision, just like so many of the gun regulations are\nmainly BATF policy decisions... The Conversation of the Fed agents\nwould go something like:\n\n\"We are gonna seize your home, your computers, your car, your bank\naccount, (you don't have to undress and give us yer clothes, unless you\nhave a floppy in yer pocket) because they are all connected with your\nacquisition, transport, and use of 'terrorist tools' and/or 'drug dealers\ntools' - part of the WoD or against terrorism, ya unnerstand... no\ndecent American Subject would be against these noble causes...\".\n\n\"Note we are not accusing YOU of any wrong-doing ... we are only saying\nyour HOME, COMPUTERS, CAR, BANK ASSETS are connected with wrong-doing\nSOMEHOW - they housed, transported, and funded these 'terrorist tools'.\nOnly a civil matter ... ... We had this 'tip'...\".\n\n\"Therefore, the Constitutional Protection on Individual rights do NOT\napply - we are 'arresting' the tainted PROPERTY... not YOU...\".\n\n\"If you wish to deposit a BOND, hire some attorneys, and go to court to\nPROVE the innocence of this property (that they are not 'terrorist tools'\nand again to prove they are not also 'drug dealers tools'), go ahead,\nwe have no problem with that! 'Course, with your bank assets seized,\nno car, computer, or home, (probably no job, too) and your\nless-than-limitless resources, you might run into some minor practical\ndifficulties ...\".\n\nTHAT is what has me going so damned ballistic... It is EXACTLY how\nthe logic goes when someone gives a 'tip' that your home has been\nused to store DRUGS... Note no trace of drugs need to be found on\nthe property... only some bozo who will say 'yup. I stored stuff in\nthat dude's house...' (probably to get out of a 10 year sentence for\ndealing). Much more cost effective to let him walk, to bust another\nday, and hit the jackpot with YOUR assets...\n\nOb Disclaimer (of course)...\n\nOk, note that I am not a lawyer, and can only base these speculations\non what I have read/heard/been told regarding past Civil Forfeiture\ncases, and how they are used to augment the budgets of assorted agencies,\nor to get 'cooperation' of folks who just want to be left alone, or who\ndo not wish to be put in a risky situation (especially in areas where\nthey are denied either meaningful police protection, AND the means to be\nable to even pretend to defend themselves, as is quite common back East,\nlike NJ, MA, NYC, Wa DC, or out West in CA). These people have the\nchoice of cowering under the government boot, or cowering under threats\nof pissed off drug dealing gang-bangers... helpless in either case...\nAll behind some dude who drops a dime on you for his gain, or behind\nthe Feds wanting to 'make an example'... Civil Forfeiture being the 'hook'.\n\nPoint is, are these speculations way out of line, or are they all too\ntypical, and if so, does the extension to crypto and just about anything\nthat the Feds regard as 'inconvenient' seem reasonable? And if not\nwhy not (what are our guarantees, besides the government promises)?\n\nNONE?\n\n", "\n\n\tHmmm. \"Check your facts.\" Good advice. Let's check Mr. Cain's\nfacts a bit, shall we?\n\n\n\nFACT: It is unlawful to distribute code implementing RSA without a license\nto do so from PKP, whether or not one is charging for it. Furthermore,\nany use of RSA, other than for research purposes allowed under US patent\nlaw, is similarly unlawful. Therefore, the \"average citizen\" cannot use\nRSA to encrypt message traffic in the US without a license from PKP.\n\nThere is no licensed, freely available product in the US that uses RSA\nencryption other than RSAREF (and hence RIPEM), at least as far as I am\naware. If you know of another, please post it here.\n\n\nFACT: The last contact I had with RSA Data Security, Inc was with some\nguy trying to sell me a license (unsolicited, I might add) for TIPEM.\nCost: $15K plus 2-5 percent royalties.\n\nI suppose it is a matter of opinion as to whether or not these terms count\nas \"mucho bucks\" or \"incredibly reasonable.\" Either way, however, this\ndefinitely falls into the \"routines *they* tell you to (use)\".\n\n\nFACT: There are no restrictions (yet!) on the use of cryptography under\nUS law, although this is beginning to look like it will change. The only\nimpediments to widespread use of RSA cryptography in the US are PKP's\npatents.\n\n\tMr. Cain, please shut up until you get your facts straight.\n\n=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\n\t\"Better than the whole world be destroyed and crumble to dust than\na free man deny one of his desires.\"\n\t\t-Benito Mussolini, Italian anarchist and poet.", "\nI must admit that this point has been running through my mind for most of\nthe discussion: one the dice are out there, it won't be long before someone\ndecaps it and, after a bit of work, has full details of the Clipper\nalgorythm. This isn't trivial to do, but then again, it is not impossibly\ndifficult either. Any half way decent VLSI design student should be able\nto take a photograph of a technology s/he is familiar with, and given a\ndescription of the input, output, control and supply lines, figure out \nthe function of various subsystems on the die. Indeed, this is not an\nuncommon exercise performed during training (because it makes you think\nabout design decisions made by other designers.\n\nI could speculate that these chips are going to be manufactured using\n\"tamperproof\" carriers (unlikely - such techniques are *very* expensive\nand this thing is supposed to be relatively cheap to produce), or that\nthere will be some legal or legislative framework to prevent publication\nof the algorythm (unlikely - please correct me if I am wrong but aren't these\nsupposed to be sold internationally?). I suppose that the most likely\nreason the algorythm is remaining secret for the moment is that some idiot\nbureaucrat, untrammeled by the realities of the situation, decided that\n\"well, we should keep it a secret because it is supposed to be secret,\nisn't it?\"\n\nJust some random thoughts...\n", "I have a question about digital communications encryption:\n\n\tThe Fact Sheet mentioned encryption/decryption microcircuitry with \nspecial \"keys\" for law enforcement for wire tapping purposes.\n\n\tIf I wanted to, couldn't I develop encryption of my own? That\nis, if me and a partner in crime had unique Encryption/decryption\ndevices installed before the \"tappable\" one, couldn't we circumvent\nthe \"keys\" system? Or replace it?\n\n\tI'd be really interested in knowing how the E/D microcircuits might\nbe made to prevent such befuddlement! (Laymans' Language, please! maybe a bit\ntechnical...)\n\nPlease E-mail to me, as I'm not in Net News as much as I'd like to be!\n\n\nPete\ndeuelpm@craft.camp.clarkson.edu\n", "\n\nMy MDC cipher (which uses any one-way hash function as a CFB-mode stream\ncipher, the current implementation uses MD5) uses a key of up to 2048 bits\n(that is, you can use a 1-bit key if you want and copy it over the entire\n2048-bit range, or you can use the entire 2048 bits). Runtime is\nindependant of key size, the system runs slightly slower than MD5 itself.\nI presume RC2 and RC4 use a similar system (or possibly they just hash an\narbitrary-length key down to n bits, maybe 128, using something like MD5).", "( Below is my response to Dr. Denning's letter to Steven Bellovin. Comments\n are invited. - Paul )\n\nIn alt.privacy.clipper, Steve Bellovin posted your message to\nhim, which included a brief passage concerning selection of agencies\nas escrow agencies.\n\nI am glad to see that the proposal as written states that the escrow\nagencies won't be law enforcement agencies. I would argue, however,\nthat *one* of the escrow agencies shouldn't be federal at all.\n\nAs a private citizen, I would feel much more \"secure in my person and\npapers\" knowing that an organization committed to individual civil\nliberties- the ACLU and the NRA come to mind- was safeguarding half of\nmy key. Both the ACLU and the NRA are resistent to government pressure\nby the simple expedient fact that they are not supported, funded, or\novertly controlled by the government.\n\nOf those federal and federally funded candidate agencies that you\nmentioned, I have the following comments:\n\n\t- SRI, Rand, Mitre, and national labs: I agree that they have\n great experience safeguarding sensitive information. I am not\n convinced that they would adequately safeguard _this_\n\tinformation, since in any case requiring disclosure, there's\n \tlikely to be sigificant pressure for disclosure- possibly\n \t*wrongful* disclosure.\n\n\t- GAO: perhaps. I would like to see more concrete evidence of\n \ttheir fidelity and ability.\n\n\t- *TREASURY*? Surely you're joking. Perhaps you'd ask BATF\n\tto safeguard keys. Maybe the Federal Reserve would be a \n\tbetter choice.\n\nEver since last fall's \"trial balloon\" was posted in sci.crypt, your\nname has been synonymous with those who place a great deal of trust in\nthe ability of government agencies and agents to act within the law.\n\nI agree with you in part: those agencies and agents *almost always*\nact properly. However, there have been enough cases where _sworn\nagents of the Federal Government_ have acted wrongly to make me feel\nthat having two federal agencies as key repositories is unacceptable.\n\n\nRespectfully,\n-Paul Robichaux\n (not speaking for NTI, BCSS, or NASA)\n\n", "\nThis is the one part that really scares me. Without\nthe keys, it can likely be determined if a person\nis using the \"State Approved\" encryption method,\nand if not then that persons life is forfet, and\nthe profits go to making more busts, and more \nprofit. \n\n\"Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.\"\nHuman nature has not changed very much in only a few\nhundred years....\n", "\n[...]\n\n(the date I have for this is 1-26-93)\n\nnote Clinton's statements about encryption in the 3rd paragraph.. I guess\nthis statement doesen't contradict what you said, though.\n\n--- cut here ---", "You should probably use numbers much larger than 64-bits. Also, you\nmay want to include some randomly-generated bitstrings in your protocol.\nThis way, if someone should find the shared key you and another person\nuse on one day, they won't be able to guess it for the next day....\n \n Ie A sends G**A mod P and random string R0\n B sends G**B mod P and random string R1\n \n Both find (G**A mod P)** B mod P = Shared Key, then both calculate\n \n Session Key = Hash(R0,Shared Key, R1)\n \n Also, you will want to make sure that you're getting the right public\nkey value G**A mod P. Someone with the power to intercept and change messages\ncan oterwise spoof you by sending both of you *his* public key, and then\nacquiring a session key with each of you....", "\n\tThis doesn't handle superencrypted traffic. If the clipper\ndoesn't impose any unfortunate performance side-effects there's no\nreason not to use it to superencrypt a stream of triple-DES encrypted\ntraffic. That way your traffic looks \"normal\" and perhaps anyone\ndesiring to listen in won't even bother, since they know nobody's\ngoing to really trust crypto that has classified internals for\nimportant stuff.", "\n There are some issues which come to mind when one considers\nthe law enforcement aspects of the use of the Big Brother\n(Clipper) chip.\n The drug dealers and terrorists aren't going to let\nthemselves be caught by using this type of encryption. In 1985\nthe New York Times reported that government investigators broke\nup a narcotics ring that was operating highly sophisticated\nequipment capable of allowing the leaders of the ring to\neavesdrop on the law-enforcement agents who were trying to arrest\nthem.\n A Mr. Deely, an NSA official, said \"There are a lot of\nmedium-sized countries that would have been proud to have the\nsignals intelligence operation of this group.\"\n For every John Gotti there are probably many more people who\nhave the sophistication to know what the risks of unsecure\ncommunications are. The press given to the Big Brother chip will\nonly increase their numbers.\n Even if there is some benefit to law-enforcement through the\nuse of Big Brother, it must be weighed against the constitutional\nand civil liberties questions involved.\n For example, in some areas of the world torture is used as\nan investigative tool by the local \"law-enforcement\" people. I\nsuspect it is an effective means of obtaining information and\nshortening many investigations. It probably also helps keep the\nconviction rate high.\n The fact that the torture tool is not used in this country\n(even with a court order obtained by showing \"probable cause\") is\nbecause we have rightly balanced the questions of expediency and\nwhat is ethically and morally right.\n I think that the same question of expediency versus morality\nshould come into play when considering the use of Big Brother. I\nvote for morality.\n I am quite disturbed by what I interpret as a veiled threat\nto prohibit the use of all encryption if this Big Brother chip is\nnot put into wide spread use. After a quick reading of the White\nHouse press release I came away with that impression.\n To most of the American public, the word \"hacker\" has\nrightly or wrongly come to mean \"high tech adolescent vandal\".\nIt has struck me that most of the people posting to sci.crypt\nregarding this issue are intelligent, thoughtful individuals who\nhave genuine concerns about the privacy and constitutional issues\nsurrounding Big Brother. I hope that the use of Big Brother does\nnot become mandatory and other encryption become illegal. I\nwould hate to see this become some kind of high tech Volstead\nAct.\n The high speed digital communications revolution is coming\nat us with the speed of an SST. The times they are a changing,\nand just as IBM is learning that they can't do business the same\nway they have done it for the past 40 years, maybe NSA should\nevaluate another approach.\n EFF, who have correctly questioned the cryptographic\nstrength of Big Brother, may need to send a stronger message out\nregarding the constitutional issues involved.\n Al Gore may want to think this one through a little more.\n And as for Dorothy Elizabeth Robling Denning: En quoi cela\nvous concerne, cheri?\n", "\n\n\n\nSo, who is Mykotronx, Inc.? It would be nice to know that they are\nnot a front company used by an intelligence or other agency of the \nU.S. government.\n\nWhile we are at it, the chip design(s) should be examined and verified\nagainst silicon to insure no trap doors or hidden protocols exist in silicon,\nregardless of the security level of the encryption algorithm. There is\nno proof that the chip won't squeel and role over for someone with the\nproper knowledge to interrogate it via the communications link.\n\nThe design examination should be done to the gate level. Also, how does one\nverify that what you are looking at is reflected in tapeout, or masks?\n\nThe silicon should be examined as well, the design in hand (a clean room\npublicly defined clipper chip) can be merged with another design later, or\nchanged between completion and mask out. There is little proof that what\nyou are told is in the chip is all that is in the chip.\n\nPut the (verified) masks in escrow, and use them for chip production,\nuse a third escrow party for programming the chips. ", "\nBut they can make you piss in a jar, and possibly provide DNA, semen,\nand hair samples or to undergo tests for gunpowder residues on your hand.\n\n(BTW, that was why the chemical engineer arrested in the WTC explosion\nthrust his hands into a toilet filled with urine as the cops were breaking\ndown the door -- the nitrogen in the urine would mask any residue from\nexplosives. I found it interesting the news reported his acts, but not\nhis reasons).\n\nSomewhere, perhaps a privacy group, they discussed the legal ramifications\nof using a password like\n\n I shot Jimmy Hoffa and his body is in a storage locker in Camden\n\na while back. The impression I got was that real judges would dismiss\narguments that this password is self-incrimination as first-year law\nschool sophistry -- the fact that you use a statement for a password has\nno bearing on the veracity of that phrase.\n\nYou are not being asked to incrimidate yourself (e.g., \"where did you\nbury the body?\"); you are being asked to provide information necessary\nto execute a legal search warrant. Refusing to provide the password is\nakin to refusing to provide a key to a storage locker... except that they\ncould always _force_ their way into the locker.\n\nOf course, that doesn't mean you have to help them _understand_ what\nthey find, or point out things they overlooked in their search!\n", "\n\tYes there is, the patent can be classified as secret. I recently\n\tsaw a patent from 1947 (dealing with nuclear weapons technology)\n\tthat was only declassified in the last couple of years. There\n\tis of course the problem of enforcing the patent.\n\n\n\tThis is absolutely right.", "\nin this regard that permission to export >>> PKZIP's encryption scheme\nhas twice been denied by NSA. Draw you own >>> conclusions.\n\nPKWare >>has obtained a license to export their program to the whole\nworld, >>except a very limited list of countries... Draw your own\nconclusions >>about the strength of the algorithm... :-)\n\nSorry if I was less than clear. :-) I was referring to our own efforts\nto receive export permission from NSA for the PKZIP encryption\nalgorithm, not to any effort on the part of Phil Katz or PKWare.\n\nI should point out that the original version of this algorithm was\ndesigned by Roger Schlafly and that WE (meaning Roger and myself) were\ntwice denied an export license for it. The second go 'round was just\nthis past fall.\n\nI had no knowledge of Phil's attempts in this. I do not even *know* for\nsure if he choose to implement the algorithm as it was designed by\nRoger, though I *believe* that was at least the case for versions prior\nto 2.0. And then there's the question of key management. :-)\n\nAnd even if our applications were identical, there is no reason to\nassume the NSA would treat them that way. :-)\n\n-mjm\n", "-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----\n\n\n\nThe point you all seem to have missed was covered when the UK cellphone\nscrambling system was discussed. Incidentally, my MP has responded to\nmy questions on that issue, and it appears that the UK and other `approved'\ncountries will get the secure A5 encryption, and `dodgy' countries will\nget A5X. Existing mobile equipment will drop to clear mode when used with\nA5X systems, but newer equipment will use A5/A5X/clear depending on the\ncapabilities of the base station.\n\nThe cops/feds do *not* need to be able to get hold of your private key to\nlisten in to cellular conversations. Encryption is not end-to-end, but \ncellphone to base-station - it *has* to be this way so that cellular users\nand fixed installations can talk to each other. For cellular to cellular\ncalls, the transmission is decrypted at the base-station, passed to another\nbase-station and re-encrypted. The cops/feds can listen to the unscrambled\ncall *provided* they get a warrant to tap into the cellular provider's\nequipment. The only reason for wanting a crackable system is so they can\nlisten without having to obtain a warrant.\n\nBut, maybe the Clipper system is secure, and they really do need a warrant\nto get the key out of escrow before they can listen in using a scanner (see\nabove - they don't *have* to go down this route anyway). I have my doubts,\nbut even if true once they have the key they will *never* again need a\nwarrant to tap into that particular phone whenever they want. `Well, Judge,\nit appears he wasn't a drug-dealer after all, so naturally we'll stop\nlistening in'...\n\nYou have every reason to be scared shitless. Take a look at the records\nof McCarthy, Hoover (J. Edgar, not the cleaner - though they both excelled at\nsucking) and Nixon.\n\n- --Paul\n\n-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----\nVersion: 2.2", "\n\n\nThis only makes sense if the government prohibits alternative non-escrowed\nencryption schemes. Otherwise, why not just use the front end without\nclipper?\n\nDavid\n", "One of the candidates that has been suggested for a key registration\nbody is the ACLU. I think this is poor choice. The ACLU is\nessentially a group of auditors: they audit how people's civil\nliberties are administered. Traditionally, auditors do not like to get\ninvolved in the design or operational aspects of things, and with good\nreason.\n\nWhen I was a systems programmer, it always infuriated me that the\nauditors would come in and tell us our implementation stunk from a\nsecurity point of view, but wouldn't tell us how to fix it. I always\nfigured they just liked to critcize, without doing the work to help fix\nthe problem.\n\nThen I took a stint as an auditor, and I found out the real reason.\nAuditors don't like to recommend solutions, because it puts them in a\nbad position if they have to criticize the implementation later. The\nauditee can say, \"Well, you told us this way would be OK.\" It\ncompromises the independence that is a necessary part of the auditor's\njob.\n\nTaking the case at hand, suppose ACLU becomes a key half registrar.\nSuppose that, perhaps through some error on ACLU's part, a key half gets\naway that shouldn't, and is used to deprive someone of her civil\nliberties. The ACLU gets wind of this, and wants to take it to court.\nBut they end up being at the same time on the side of the defendant\nand of the plaintiff, which is not an easy position to be in.\n\nThere are exceptions to the complete independence of auditors: at one\nplace where I worked, when payroll checks were printed, they were signed\nautomatically by a signature drum on the bursting machine. This drum\nwas kept by the auditors (who also kept the check stock), and\nwas brought down to Data Processing when it was time to do the checks.\n\nI believe the difference between this situation and the key registration\nsituation is that it is fairly obvious when it is time to do the payroll\nchecks: if they were done yesterday, and someone wants to do them again\ntoday, he better be able to produce yesterday's checks so that they can\nbe destroyed. Determining which of the many requests for key halves are\nlegit is a trickier process, one much more prone to mistakes that could\nput the ACLU in a protecting-the-client versus protecting-the-ACLU\nconflict of interest.\n\nAs always, my opinions are my own.", "\nOK, Andrew, I'll provide some evidence. A friend of mine worked for an\nelectronics manufacturer on with a west-coast office. They routinely sold\nequipment to the Japanese. One day, the Japanese started showing up with\ndiscount demands that were amazingly close to the cost to manufacture the\nproducts.\n\nThis company routinely sent most of the manufacturing data to the field \noffices. The Japanese had simply intercepted it. So my friend, the computer\nsystems admin, came up with a solution. He started sending the data out\ndouble-block-encrypted with DES. \n\nTwo days after this new distribution plan was implemented, the president of\nthe company got a visit from a pair of government agents. They told him to\n\"knock it off\". The president gave in, since his company did a considerable\nbusiness with the federal government.\n\nNow, if the government wasn't monitoring the communications, how would they\neven know that the encryption system was installed? Further, since encryp-\ntion isn't illegal, and DES certainly isn't, what is the basis of the\ngovernment's cease-and-desist demand?\n\nThe spooks do whatever they think is necessary, with or without the blessings\nof the law. I'll say \"no thanks\" to Clipper, or anything else the government\nproduces. For the moment, double or triple DES is probably adequate. And when\nthe line is idle, send random garbage, just to keep 'em busy. ", "\nWell, almost.... If I only had to solve the problem for myself, and were\nwilling to have to type in a second password (the secret key) whenever I\nlogged in, it could work. However, I'm trying to create a solution that\nanyone can use, and which, once installed, is just as effortless to start up\nas the non-solution of just using xhost(1) to control access. I've got\nreligeous problems with storing secret keys on multiuser computers.\n\n\nThanks for the pointer! It was good reading, and I liked the idea of using\nseveral unrelated sources with a strong mixing function. However, unless I\nmissed something, the only source they suggested (aside from a hardware RNG)\nthat seems available, and unguessable by an intruder, when a Unix is\nfresh-booted, is I/O buffers related to network traffic. I believe my\nsolution basically uses that strategy, without requiring me to reach into\nthe kernel.\n\n\nI heard about this solution, and it sounded good. Then I heard that folks\nwere experiencing times of 30-60 seconds to run this, on\nreasonably-configured workstations. I'm not willing to add that much delay\nto someone's login process. My approach (etherfind|compress, skip 10K) takes\na second or two to run. I'm considering writing the be-all and end-all of\nsolutions, that launches the MD5, and simultaneously tries to suck bits off\nthe net, and if the net should be sitting __SO__ idle that it can't get 10K\nafter compression before MD5 finishes, use the MD5. This way I could have\nguaranteed good bits, and a deterministic upper bound on login time, and\nstill have the common case of login take only a couple of extra seconds.", "\n\nThe easiest way is a user fee for each clipper chip manufactured. This makes\nthe funding separate from government.\n\nIt also has the neat side property that if the chip doesn't catch on, the\nscheme breaks down, and the government is back to the drawing boards,\nassuming that they haven't prohibited alternatives in the meantime.\n\nIn fact, maybe this should be part of the \"official\" system. Before the\ngovernment is allowed to move this past the \"experimental\" stage, they\nshould have to demonstrate economic viability by mass adoption. The\ngovernment is very fond of demonstration projects proving feasibility in the\nuse of government funds for social programs--they should have to make a\nsimilar feasibility demonstration (on economic viability cum acceptance\nterms) for this baby as well. Let's put it to the only vote that counts--a\nmarketplace vote among those who have to pay for it.\n\nDavid\n", "\n\n\nI don't think they can do that without changing the law. The chip itself\nisn't classified, and reverse engineering is allowed by law (possibly)\nunless prohibited by a valid contract. The algorithm may be classified,\nbut there are many court cases ruling that information identical to\nclassfied information, but obtained from unclassified sources, is freely\npublishable (with the possible exception of nuclear weapon information.)", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\nSo, who is Mykotronx, Inc.? It would be nice to know that they were\nnot a front company used by an intelligence or other agency of the \nU.S. government. Trusting the fox to guard the chickens, and all that.\nSeems suspicious when the rest of the sources are foxes.\n\nWhile we are at it, the chip design(s) should be examined and verified\nagainst silicon to insure no trap doors or hidden protocols exist in silicon,\nregardless of the security level of the encryption algorithm. It would be a \nshame if some three letter agency had the ability to interrogate my chip, when\nall I'd know is that someone rang, and when I attempted to go off hook the\nline went dead. Could be even worse if the chip were intended to connect\ndirectly to a modem.\n\nThe design examination should be done to the gate level. Does anyone have\na good idea how to tell if there is a piggyback design on silicon? The model\nwould be extra logic sharing pins with the advertised function. Tip offs\nwould be circuitry that would ignore incoming data if formats or sequence\nis not right. I can think of only two ways an output pin could be used,\nand its possible that might be noticed, but could be edited from the netlist.\nI think the silicon itself needs to be investigated. Imagine a design\ndone in two layer metalization, yet finding a third layer under the\nmicroscope. ", "Iff the phones transmit their serial nos. as part of the message then what\nis to say that each phone can take that serial number and use it to generate\nthe required key....\n\n\n", "\nAn excellent idea.\n\n\nWhile I don't know the full scope of the activities of the EFF, \nfrom what little I've seen I think it would be better to lobby for \nstrong cryptography through a distinct organization.\n\nThe EFF has been associated with efforts to prevent the banning of sex\nand pictures newsgroups at various universities. Horror stories about the\ncontents of those groups (e.g. exploitative pictures of possibly underaged\nmodels) have already surfaced in the press. The White House bulletin\nalready raised the specter of drug-dealing and terrorism, which is only one\nstep removed from the old \"crypto-wielding child molester\" argument. An\nEFF lobbying effort for cryptography would be too easily derailed by the\nconnection to child pornography and the like.\n\nSimilarly, LPF is connected with Stallman and his Gnu project. In\nlight of, say, the Gnu Manifesto, this means that in a public debate it\nstands to be labelled as \"communist\", \"anarchist hackers\", radical, etc. \n\nI don't know about CPSR, but if it is an offshoot of Physicians for Social\nResponsibility (best known for Helen Caldicott and her hysterical\nantinuclear lobbying) then it probably also carries unwelcome political\nbaggage.\n\nPerhaps for practical reasons a lobbying organization for cryptography\nwould best be formed under the umbrella of EFF or some other existing\ngroup, but its charter should then be distinct, independent, and limited to\nadvocacy for the right to cryptography. To reiterate Dan Bernstein's\nquestion: does any suitable organization exist? If not, what are you going\nto do about it?\n\nHaving mentioned the possible dangers of unwelcome political associations,\nI would be remiss not to suggest something in the opposite direction:\ngathering the support of the NRA by emphasizing the RKBA side of the\nissue as well as the First-Amendment side.\n\n", "\nGee. Say they feed the 80-bit key through Snefru-8 and take the first 60\nbits of the result, then use those 60 bits as the real key. How do you\nfigure out that each key is one of 2^20 ``equal'' keys? You can try a\nbirthday attack, but if the key can be changed only once a second then\nyou will need several lifetimes to get reliable statistics. Somehow I\ndon't think you could catch the NSA at this sort of skulduggery.", "Nathaniel Sammons (ns111310@LANCE.ColoState.Edu) wrote on Mon, 19 Apr 1993 02:36:36 GMT: \n\n\nAgreed. No agency such as the NSA (or whoever) would approve the public \nrelease of a crypto-system, if they didn't already have the technical\nmeans or the know-how to decrypt everything at their whim. Surely the whole\npoint of all this madness is to make Joe Public think that his/her\ncommunications will be kept safe, while James Bond at the NSA can, if need\nbe, have full, decrypted access to someone's communications? That'll be\nquite a heist, if they can pull it off. \n\n\nI thought that the US Government were going to release the algorithm to a\npanel of \"carefully chosen experts\", who would then \"study it deeply, and\nreport their findings\"? Exactly who will these people be? Academics? Or\nGovernment-sponsored researchers? Tiny-toons?\n\n\nI can only hope that the same sort of thing doesn't start filtering over\ninto the ears of the UK Government, and if the European Parliament gets\nwind of it, well, we can kiss goodbye to any form of Democracy in Europe \nat all.\n\n\nHallelujah! :-)", "\n\n\ner, excuse me but since the escrow agencies aren't yet chosen, how can you\nsay they have a \"history of untrustworthy behavoir[sic]\"?\n\nI'm sure each of us can think of agencies without such a history. Price\nWaterhouse has kept the secret of the Academy Awards for many years, even in\nthe face of an aggressive press. The Federal Reserve Open Market Committee\nhas successfully kept decisions from leaking for the statutory period until\npublication. Even the Department of Agriculture has successfully kept crop\nforecasts from leaking prematurely.\n\nFrankly, I'd trust the above (not the D of A, of course since they might be\nsubject to political pressure) far sooner than the ACLU, EFF, or CPSR which,\nthough not exactly government apologists, have no particular track record\nfor internal security that I know of.\n\nDavid\n", "\tWith E-Mail, if they can't break your PGP encryption, they'll just\ncall up one of their TEMPEST trucks and read the electromagnetic emmisions\nfrom your computer or terminal. Note that measures to protect yourself from\nTEMPEST surveillance are still classified, as far as I know.\n\n\n\tIf the new regime comes to fruition, make sure you protect your First\nAmendment rights by asserting your Second Amendment Rights.", "\nI agree. This is the danger I see, not the system itself. That is to say, \nthis is a political issue, not a technical one.\n", "\ncelular phones...........\n", " \n\nWe had a senior NSA scientist in Cambridge at one of our workshops recently\n(in fact he was here when the Clipper announcement was made, but we didn't\nlearn of it till after he'd gone). He said on this point that he was forbidden\nby law to monitor conversations between US nationals (and he is a chap who is \nvery precise about his choice of words). So I don't expect he'd have any qualms\nabout monitoring a domestic US conversation if one of the parties was an alien.\n\nHowever it got me thinking of the Navajo code talkers. Just imagine:\n\n+ `Hello, is that the Iraqi mission in New York? This is the Iraqi foreign\n+ ministry in Baghdad, I am Farouq Hussein, US citizen, social security number\n+ so-and-so'\n\n+ `Yes, indeed, this is the New York mission, Mustafa Jadid speaking, also a\n+ US citizen, my social security number is such-and-such, here is our report\n+ on activities against the Satan Clinton'", "\n In previous postings by Hellman, Bellovin, etal it was\nreported the Big Brother (Clipper) chip will encrypt plaintext in\n64 bit blocks as is done with DES. The users key K which can be\nderived from RSA, Diffy-Hellman, etc. is used to encrypt\nplaintext M and is then used to form a \"three part message\".\n This three part message consists of E[M; K], K encrypted\nwith some other key, and the chip serial number. This three part\nmessage is then encrypted by still another key.\n My question is: What is a message?\n For example, say we are dealing with an encrypted digitized\nvoice application. The speech waveform is sampled and digitized\nand then some number of samples are grouped into a 64 bit block.\nThis block is then encrypted and transmitted over a non-secure\ncommunications link.\n Where is the three part message? Is something appended to\neach 64 bit block? Is a header sent at the beginning of the\nsession?\n If the header is sent at the beginning of the session, how\ndo they insure the equipment manufacturer using the chip does\njust that? Can just anyone manufacture products using the chip?\nIs a facility clearance required to manufacture?\n Any ideas?\n", "Hello all,\nI thought you all might like to see this. It's a letter from Jerry\nBerman to David Chaum from November of 1985, in response to\ninformation that Mr. Chaum sent to Mr. Berman.\n\nWhile I have to congratulate EFF for its prompt response to the\nClipper Chip announcement from the White House, I think it's important\nto recognize the philosophy of their Executive Director, as explained\nbelow.\n\nI agree that legal remedies are important, but when pressed, I'd\nprefer to retain the ability to use purely technical solutions to\npreserve my privacy, because they'll hold up under fire.\n\nMr. Chaum has consented to the publication of this letter on the Net. \n\nI don't work for, nor am I a member of EFF, ACLU, or any similar\norganizations, but I do agree with them on a great many things. \n\n\t\t\t\t\t--Aristophanes\n\n----------\n\n\n AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION\n\n\n WASHINGTON OFFICE \n \n 122 Maryland Avenue, NE\n November 1, 1985 Washington, DC 20002\n --------------------\n National Headquarters\nMr. David Chaum 132 West 43rd Street \nCentre for Mathematics and Computer Science New York. NY 10036 \nP.O. Box 4079 (212) 944-9800 \n19O9 AB Amsterdam Norman Dorsen \n President \nDear Mr. Chaum: Ira Glasser\n Executive Director\n Eleanor Holmes Norton\n CHAIR\n National Advisory \n Council\n \n \n \n \n \n\n\tThank you for sending me a most interesting article. A\nsociety of individuals and organizations that would expend the\ntime and resources to use a series of 'digital pseudonyms' to\navoid data linkage does not in my opinion make big brother\nobsolete but acts on the assumption that big brother is ever\npresent. I view your system as a form of societal paranoia.\n\n\tAs a matter of principle, we are working to enact formal\nlegal protections for individual privacy rather than relying on\ntechnical solutions. We want to assume a society of law which\nrespects legal limits rather than a society that will disobey the\nlaw, requiring citizens to depend on technical solutions. e.g.\nrequire a judical warrant for government interception of data\ncommunications rather than encrypt all messages on the assumption\nthat regardless of the lawt the government will abuse its power\nand invade privacy.\n\n\tAs a matter of practicality, I do not think your system\noffers much hope for privacy. First, the trend toward universal\nidentifiers is as much.-a movement generated by government or\nindustry's desire to keep track of all citizens as it is by\ncitizens seeking simplicity and convenience in all transactions.\nAt best, your system would benefit the sophisticated and most\nwould opt for simplicity. The poor and the undereducated would\nnever use or benefit from it.\n\n\tFinally where there's a will, there's a way. If government\nwants to link data bases, it will, by law, require the disclosure\nof various individual pseudonyms used by citizens or prohibit it\nfor data bases which the government wants to link. Since\ncorporations make money by trading commercial lists with one\nanother, they will never adopt the system or if it is adopted,\nwill use \"fine printn contracts to permit selling various codes\nused by their customers to other firms.\n\n\tThe solution remains law, policy, and consensus about limits\non government or corporate intrusion into areas of individual\nautonomy. Technique can be used to enforce that consensus or to\noverride it. It cannot be used as a substitute for such\nconsensus.\n\n\n\n Sincerely Yours,\n\n /Sig/\n\n Jerry J. Berman\n Chief Legislative Counsel\n & Direrector ACLU\n Privacy Technology Project\n", "\n\nWhat??? This is an incredible statement! The NSA tried to suppress\npublic key crypto and RSA, and yet they claim to encourage use of\nstrong crypto for US citizens.\n\nWould you trust a black-box from the NSA versus an \"open system\" from\nelsewhere?\n\n/-----------------------------------\\\n\\-----------------------------------/\n\n\n", " The points raised about checking what is actually -in- the chip, as\nopposed to what is allegedly programmed therein, raise yet another trust\nissue. Even if we assume that these \"trusted agents\" are really entering\na wide range of S1 and S2 seeds (rather than using the same one all the\ntime to reduce the key search space to 30 bits), I assume they are not\ndoing so by picking up an iron filing and poking it into the circuitry\nat carefully selected points to encode data. They would presumably be\npunching numbers into a computer, which for all they know could program\nthe chips in a manner completely independent of the S1 and S2 values they\nare feeding into the system.\n\n\n\n\n", "\n: It means that the EFF's public stance is complicated with issues irrelevant\n: to the encryption issue per se. There may well be people who care about\n: the encryption issue who don't care to associate themselves with the\n: network erotica issue (or may even disagree with the EFF's position).\n\nPerhaps these encryption-only types would defend the digitized porn if it\nwas posted encrypted?", "\n\n\n\nLet's put it this way, they have a charter and several executive orders\nto obey, among other things which *explicitly* prohibit sharing this\ninformation (unless things have changed withing the last little while).\nI suppose they could ignore it, if they choose. But I doubt they would.\nFor an authoritative look at the NSA, get Bamford's \"The Puzzle Palace\".\nThat's all I can say.\n", "Arthur Melnick posts an interesting first-hand message about his NEA\nalgorithm. Though I have no reason to disbelieve anything he says, I want to\nclarify one point:\n\nHe says he has no connection with the NSA. If he was part of an \"NSA plot\",\nof course he'd say that.\n\nNow I don't think he is. But the level of some discussion here is of that\nsort, and very quickly we reach the point where it's impossible to continue\nrationally discussing some issues.\n\n\"I am not a crook\"\n\n\"Well, if you were, of course you'd say that\"\n\n\nor the ever popular favorite:\n\n\"Please prove the following negative.\"\n\nI don't know what to do with such messages, so I have taken to ignoring\nthem.\n\nComments?\n\nDavid", "\nThanks. Got that from two other sources as well. The full quote is as\nfollows:\n\nFrom Dorothy Denning, CRYPTOGRAPHY AND DATA SECURITY, Addison-Wesley\n1982,1983, page 8:\n\n\"Cryptosystems must satisfy three general requirements:\n\n\"1. The enciphering and deciphering transformations must be efficient for\nall keys.\n\n\"2. The system must be easy to use.\n\n\"3. The security of the system should depend only on the secrecy of the\nkeys and not on the secrecy of algorithms E [enciphering] or D\n[deciphering].\"\n\n\n\n--Mike\n\n\n\n", "Interestingly enough, in designing the escrow, we may want to use some\nrather unusual technology, such as sealed boxes of paper, or\ndestructive read memory, rather than typical computer databases, which\nis fun for a database of hundreds of millions of keys.\n\nThe greatest danger of the escrow database, if it were kept on disk,\nwould be the chance that a complete copy could somehow leak out. You\ncan design lots of protection, but with enough corruption a complete\ncopy is always possible. Storing it on paper or something very hard\nto copy at once may actually make sense. Or a medium that can't be\ncopied -- for example, something with very slow access times or which\nleaves a destructive trail if it is even read.\n\nOf course then it's hard to backup. However, I think the consequences\nof no backup -- the data is not there when a warrant comes -- are worse\nthan the consequences of a secret backup.\n\nAn audit trail that reveals when data has been access, that *can't* be\nerased by the humans involved, is also necessary.", " I did. You're mistaken. NSA's communications intelligence mission is\n strictly against foreign governments. Here's an excerpt from the enabling\n charter (24 Oct 52, Truman) that should clarify this. The charter was\n declassified in about Feb 1990 when an FOIA request made it public.\nInteresting! Where can I get the whole thing?\n\n NSA is not in the standard-setting business, though -- that's why this\n Clipper stuff came from NIST, which I believe is tasked with coming up\n with standards based on their best inputs from other government agencies,\n which would include NSA.\n\nSeveral of the newspaper reports have made it fairly clear that the\nNSA did all the real work. You can't believe everything you read in\nthe papers :-), but the package of information the NIST is faxing out\nhas so little information beyond what's widely known that it sounds\nlike it's true.", ":Thousands? Tens of thousands? Do some arithmetic, please... Skipjack\n:has 2^80 possible keys.\n\nWe don't yet know if all 80 bits count. Anyway, its looking like the\nkeys and escrow arrangements are smoke and mirrors to cover the way the NSA\ncan regenerate the key from the transmitted serial number.", "\nBut what about second sources for pin-compatible non-Clipper algorithm\nchips that also have escrowed keys? If a \"reputable firm\" produces a\nchip (with escrowed key) that is a pop-in replacement for the Clipper\nchip in my phone, and uses an algorithm that is widely known and evaluated\nand \"trusted,\" then what's the problem?\n\nThe Clipper is going to be reverse engineered anyway by any organization\nwith sufficient resources (can you say \"billions of cocaine dollars?\") so\nthose drug dealers they're so worried about will be slipping through the\ncracks. We law-abiding (non-incredibly-wealthy) citizens, naturally, will\nnot have this recourse. But claiming that the algorithm can't be\nreleased to prevent people from using non-key-escrowed chips is plain\ndeceitful... analysis of the chip output will provide information on\nthe necessary headers and whatnot, so the \"bad guys\" could build chips\nusing a *different* algorithm and still not escrow their keys.\n\nOr, they could just buy bunches of cheap phones at K-mart every week,\nand play Swap-the-Clipper-Chip with their cellular phone every day.\n", "\nYou seem to be assuming that all arrests are of equal value, and that\nthe use of wiretaps is spread uniformly among them.", "Exactly.\n\nBut I'll add another observation: if the chip does become a standard,\nthe algorithm won't _remain_ secret.\n\nLeaving the government with the only remaining option: to make use\nof un-escrowed keys illegal. Which won't begin to bother the terrorists\nand child abusers the government is so fond of referring to.\n\nNote that the Federalist papers stress _one_ reason for the right\nof citizens to bear arms: to defend themselves _against_ the army.\n_Our_ army.\n\nIMHO the _primary_ purpose of private crypto is defend ourselves\n_against_ the government. The odd terrorist I'm not worried about;\nthe goverment damages my quality of life every day.\n\nRob", ": It occurs to me that if they get a wiretap order on you, and the escrow\n: houses release your code to the cops, your code is now no longer secure.\n: \n: It's in the hands of cops, and while I am sure most of the time they are\n: good, their security will not be as good as the escrow houses.\n: \n: \n: What this effectively means is that if they perform a wiretap on you,\n: at the end of the wiretap, they should be obligated to inform you that\n: a tap was performed, and replace (for free) the clipper chip in your\n: cellular phone so that it is once again a code known only to the\n: escrow houses.\n\nGetting the court order to reveal the key *also* makes decipherable\nall *past* conversations (which may be on tape, or disk, or whatver),\nas I understand the proposal. I could be wrong, but I've seen no\nmention of \"session keys\" being the escrowed entities.\n\nAs the EFF noted, this raises further issues about the fruits of one\nbust leading to incrimination in other areas.\n\nBut is it any worse than the current unsecure system? It becomes much\nworse, of course, if the government then uses this \"Clinton Clipper\"\nto argue for restrictions on unapproved encryption. (This is the main\nconcern of most of us, I think. The camel's nose in the tent, etc.)\n\nAnd it may also become much worse if the ostensible security is\nincreased, thus allowing greater access to \"central office\" records by\nthe government (the conversations being encrypted, who will object to\nletting the government have access to them, perhaps even automatically\narchiving large fractions...). This was one of the main objections to\nthe S.266 proposal, that it would force telecom suppliers to provide\neasy access for the government.\n\nOne the government has had access to months or years of your encrypted\nconversations, now all it takes is one misstep, one violation that\ngets them the paperwork needed to decrypt *all* of them!\n\nDo we want anyone to have this kind of power?\n\n-Tim May, whose sig block may get him busted in the New Regime\n", "could someone repost or send to me via email the original posting of the\nClipper Chip press release.\n\nthanks\n\nandrew kriger\nhampshire college\nagk@neural.hampshire.edu", " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\n\n Just a random passing thought, but can anyone cite a documented use\nof encryption technology by criminals and terrorists.\n (Excluding the Iran-Contra Gang)\n\n\n-- \n\n Shaun P. Hughes sphughes@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu ", "\n\n\n\n\nWell, regardless of what policy liabilities anyone in Washington may think\nEFF has, it is going ahead aggressively attacking the assumptions that are\nbehind the Administrations Clipper Chip initiative. For all the reasons\nstated here. In Washington, you have to work under the assumption that \neveryone has some liabilities. Government and non-governmental \norganizations alike all share the same glass house. EFF is variously\nidentified as the Hacker Defense Fund, the First Amendment Absolutists,\nthe New Communists, etc, but it is also an acknowledged leader in the\ncivil liberties arena and is respected as a serious player in the \npolicy circles. So unless there is another organization with the\ncredibility and clout and right policy stance that you know of in\nWashington, please don't count EFF out as a valid representative of\nyour views in the Clipper Chip matter.", "\tThis is a very good point. AT&T obviously knew and participated in the\ndevelopment of the Clipper chip. This amounts to unfair business practice and\ngives AT&T an early monopoly on the market [hopefully a non-existant market].\nOther companies that compete with AT&T in the cellular market (Motorola, NEC, etc)\nhave grounds to file a complaint over this.\n\n\nIt would seem that the one fact that the government has overlooked in this\nwhole fiasco is the economic standpoint. As others have mentioned, the most\ndifficulty the Clipper chip faces is an economic one. Let's face it, the\naverage consumer doesn't care or know that the Clipper is a bad idea. If\nthere is a perceived need for cellular encryption, then the companies will\nprovide one. Most likely, a standard will emerge. But if the Clipper is\ntoo expensive (and $25 a chip is way too much) then they will develope their\nown or buy a cheaper one. I give SCT my full support, and hope the\nClipper chip goes the way of the Beta video tape format.\n\nAlso hope they get sued over re-using the name Clipper.\n\n-- \n ---------------------------------------Cyberspace:--------------------------", "\nIt is completely clear. You have to assume that each byte that was encrypted\nby this 'Clipper Chip' has been compromised. \nSome people wondered, why Denning, Hellman and others did not respond,\nwhen asked what would be done about such compromised phones, or if\ncompromise could not be restricted in time. (I did too) Let us just assume\nthat a) They do not know and b) Those who know don't tell and c)\nThey do not care. It seem's to be an 'Other Person's Problem' ...\n\n gec", "\n\n\tI was thinking about this, also. It's quite possible the\nsystem transmits, in clear, the serial number of the device being\nused. That way they can start a tap, get the serial number, and use\nthe warrant for the first tap to get the key.\n\n\tIf they tap someone who's apparently using encryption, but\ndon't find that prefix, then they'll assume it's an \"un-authorized\"\nencryption scheme.\n\n--\n\tMay the Kloo Gnomes be generous to you.", " \n\nYou would have to use something other than the AT&T black box - in other\nwords, I don't think public key would work. The session key would have \nto be agreed upon prior to the conversation and distributed to all \nsites beforehand.\n\nOr go out and get a STU-III ;-)\n\n-- \nDoug Bank Private Systems Division\ndougb@ecs.comm.mot.com Motorola Communications Sector\ndougb@nwu.edu Schaumburg, Illinois\ndougb@casbah.acns.nwu.edu 708-576-8207 ", "It seems to me that all discussions about Clipper security are almost \nirrelevant - if I cannot choose the key, but have to use a key chosen for\nme by the foundry, the security of the WHOLE UNIVERSE OF USERS is as good\n(or as bad) as the security of VLSI Technologies Inc.\n\nIt is a trivial effort to run any ciphertext agains ALL THE KEYS EVER \nMANUFACTURED - after all we are talking about 1 to 100 million keys that\nwill ever be manufactured. The key depositories can be as secure and\nincorruptible as they wish to be, nobody cares anyway...:-(\n\nNow if someone would convince me that the shipping docks of VTI, ATT and\nothers are impenetrable (remember: the chips have to ship with the key - \nyou or the dealer are going to submit it to the authorities eventually)\nI'd be a bit happier. But do we really believe that the various governments\n(including ours) won't have the full lists of all the keys ever manufactured?\n\nDid I miss something here?\n\nMy own opinions, quite obviously...\n--", "\nNot necessarily --- they could release the details of the algorithm\nwithout releasing the \"system key\" (called SK by Hellman). That would\nmake most people happy, and with some sort of verification procedure\nbefore key exchange, the \"official\" chips would only work with other\n\"official\" chips. In other words, secrecy of SK makes \"physically\nidentical clone versions\" impossible; secrecy of the algorithm shouldn't\nbe necessary.\n\nOf course, revealing the algorithm opens them up to attacks on SK ---\nsince all units share this key, compromising it may be a big deal.\nPersonally, I wouldn't feel too comfortable knowing that one \"secret\"\n80-bit number held in many places was all that guaranteed my security.\nOf course, compromise of SK doesn't necessarily mean that the system\nis compromised, but it's impossible to tell whether or not that's true\nwith a secret algorithm.\n\nIncidentally, what's to keep a \"secret algorithm\" from using the secret\nSK as the main key, with UK being only marginally important. Then\na court order for UK may not even be necessary to do a wiretap.\n", "\nFrom the limited details released so far, It seems that the clipper chip \nsystem must employ some sort of public key cryptography. Otherwise, the key \nmanagement problems inherent to symetric ciphers would make the system \nunworkable. It probably has some sort of public key exchange that takes place\nat the start of each call. Thats how they would identify the private key in \ntheir data base?\n\nThis means that either the NSA has developed some non RSA public key \nalgorythm or the feds have decided to subsidize PKP & RSADSI. The former is \nrather an exciting posibility since keeping the algorythm secret while making\nchip implimentations widely avalibe will be exceptionally hard. If the feds\nare forced to make it avalible in order to gain public acceptance than that \ncould break RSA's stranglehold on public key crypto in the U.S. \n\nAs for my impressions of the whole scheme It seems that instead of trying to\nban strong crypto, they are trying to co-opt it. Their contention that they \nneed to keep the algorythm secret to protect the security of the key\nregistration suggests possible inherent weakness to the algorythm. More likely\nis that they dont want anyone constructing black market devices which dont \nhave the keys registered. Anyone else notice that in their Q&A session, they\ntalk about releasing the keys only to people with proper autiorization but\ncarefully dance around stating that the keys will simply have to be supeonaed.\nThey seem to be trying to keep open the posibility of obtaining keys without \ncourt order even though tapping a phone line requires one. Also pick up on \ntheir implicit threat of eithe accept this or we'll ban strong crypto outright?\nI dont trust this plan at all and plan to oppose it in all (legal) ways\npossible.", "\n\nIn other words, \"Nice camera you got dere. It would be a shame if somet'in\nwuz ta happen to it...\"\n\n\n\n\nGood. Keep thinking critically.\n\n\nWhat if the secrecy is actually LESS damaging than the alternative?\n\n\n\nMake your own bite-size pieces. We'll wait.\n-- ", "\n Some countries have laws about importing crypto gear--I believe the U.S.\n does. Without a license the above scheme won't work (at least not legally)\n in such countries, including at least France and the U.S.\n\n David\n\nBZZT!\n\nWrong. The US does NOT have crypto import laws.\n\n-derek", "[Apologies for not posting to alt.clipper, or whatever, but it seems it\nmay not be in the newsfeed here.]\n\nThere may be another reason (good from NSA's point of view, horrible\nfrom everyone else's) why the algorithm/chip design might be secret.\n\nFirst, note that the \"experts\" will only look at \"details\", and of just \nthe algorithm:\n\n In addition, respected experts from outside the\n government will be offered access to the confidential details of\n the algorithm to assess its capabilities and publicly report\n their findings.\n\nWhy not the chip design? Well, here's the possiblity: in addition to\nencryption, the chip pre-processes voice signals to make them easier\nto analyze/transcribe electronically. The chip, once widespread, might\neffectively be part of a massively parallel computer for \"voice-\ngrepping\" the US phone network (or the criminal & wrong-thinking patrons\nthereof).\n\nI wouldn't put it past the NSA. Think how much easier it would make life\nfor them.\n\nAnd if this is indeed the case, think of the possible public outcry should\nit become widely known. Thus the secrecy.\n\nIt might be a good idea to have experts in DSP, voice recognition, and\nAI conversation-understanding to be on that panel, and insist they be\ngiven (authenticatable) design specs and implementation documentation.", "The Clipper chip is just the culmination of Dorthy Denning et all.\nBut lets ignore that for the moment.\n\nThe fundamental question is:Can the government stop me from using\nencryption?\n\nIgnoring for the moment the question of patented processes (such as\nPublic Keys), can the government stop me from using an encryption\nprocess?\n\nIf the answer is yes then what freedom we have in this country is\ntruly gone and its time to get out the guns or the lawyers\n(depending upon which causes more damage and to whom).\n\nHowever assuming that I can still encrypt things as I please, who\ncares about the clipper chip? As far as I'm concerned a phone line\nis insecure PERIOD. I don't care if they encrypt it 10 ways from\nsunday, if I didn't do the encrypting, I don't trust it. This is the\nattitude that everyone else should have. Instead of worrying about a\nclipper chip, simply connect your handset to your computer and feed\nthe voice single through, process, encrypt, and transmit over the\nphone. The guy on the other hand then does the same in reverse.\n\nCan't work you say? No Standard you say? Obviously you have never\nuses PGP.\n\nAnyone who expects the government to protect their freedoms is\nkidding themselves. Only you can protect your own freedoms.\n\nOne final thought addressed to EFF:\n\t1.Do you support the implementation of ANY form of\n\tencryption where the encryption key must be revealed?\n\t2.If you do, why? If not, why?\n\t3.What SPECIFIC actions are you planning to take to either\n\tsupport or stop this proposal?\n\t4.If you do not support this proposal, what alternatives do\n\tyou offer?\n\n\t\t\t\tThe Jester", "\nDavid,\n\n As an economist, I'm sure you can see the flaws in this logic. If the (naive)\nmarket is flooded with proprietary, but weak, encryption, then truly strong \nencryption will be unable to compete. Suppose the govt had a secret TV broadcast\nstandard, and then sold TVs below cost. Private industry has a better standard,\nbut it's not as widespread due to the govt early flooding of the market\nwith cheap proprietary sets. Even though the industry's technology is better,\nthe programming is being broadcast to the govt's unduplicatable standard.\nWho could compete?\n\n The other flaw, of course, is that making something voluntary today ensures\nthat it will be voluntary in the future. I went to renew my CA drivers license\nlast week and was required not only to give my SSN, but to PRODUCE AN SSN\nCARD to veryify the number! Note that a federal law once said that no state\nor local govt could ever require the use of SSNs for drivers license registration\n(specifically!).\n\n I do not trust the govt that says \"trust me on this even though we could\nhave an arrangement that doesn't require your trust.\" Something is big\ntime fishy. If you look more carefully, you'll see it.\n\n -mel", "\nIs the U used in the law enforcement field from the phone which placed the\ncall, from the unit whose 'start secure session' button was pressed first,\nor does each phone transmit its own law enforcement field? Even assuming\none of the first two choices, the FBI is going to get a fresh N,U for its\nown database about every other phone call, eventually accumulating keys for\nall the phones used to connect to the line they are monitoring, not just\nthe 'suspects' key. (Assuming the ever-thrifty FBI doesn't forget each key\nafter its wiretap permission has expired.) Not quite a pyramid, but not\nbad, either.", "\n >Thousands? Tens of thousands? Do some arithmetic, please... Skipjack\n >has 2^80 possible keys. Let's assume a brute-force engine like that\n >hypothesized for DES: 1 microsecond per trial, 1 million chips. That's\n >10^12 trials per second, or about 38,000 years for 2^80 trials. Well,\n >maybe they can get chips running at one trial per nanosecond, and build\n >a machine with 10 million chips. Sure -- only 3.8 years for each solution.\n\n But there is a MUCH more pernicious problem with the scheme as\nproposed. Building a brute force machine to test 2^40 possible keys\nif you have the other half from one escrow agent is EASY. (One chip,\none test per microsecond gives you one break every two weeks, and that\nbreak gives you all messages involving that phone.)\n\n The XOR scheme so that the files from one escrow agent gives you\nnothing is an improvement, but notice that XORing with (truely random)\nbit strings allows for an arbitrary number of escrow agents. Using +\nfor XOR, SK for the escrowed key, and A and B for two random bit\nstrings, hand SK+A+B, SK+A, and SK+B to three escrow agents. It is\npossible to come with an encoding scheme to match any escrow pattern,\nfor example 3 of 4, such that fewer cooperating escrow agents gives\nthe cracking agency no benefit.\n\n--\n\n\t\t\t\t\tRobert I. Eachus", "\n\nIf Brad's analysis is correct, it may offer an explanation for why the\nencryption algorithm is being kept secret. This will prevent competitors\nfrom coming out with Clipper-compatible phones which lack the government-\ninstalled \"back door.\" The strategy Brad describes will only work as long\nas the only way to get compatible phones is to have ones with the government\nchips.\n\n(It would be nice, from the point of view of personal privacy, if Brad\nturns out to be right. As long as people still have the power to provide\ntheir own encryption in place of or in addition to the Clipper, privacy\nis still possible. But the wording of several passages in the announcement\nmakes me doubt whether this will turn out to be true.)", "\n\nYou're reading far too much into this (aside from the obvious fact\nthat you shouldn't hold anybody to what they wrote in a 10 year old\nbook in a rapidly changing field like this.)\n\n\nQuite simply she says that the security should not DEPEND on the\nsecrecy of the algorithm. A secret algorithm can still be secure,\nafter all, we just don't know it. Only our level of trust is\naffected, not the security of the system.\n\nThe algorithm *could* be RSA for all we know, which we believe to\nbe secure.\n\nThey have a much better reason to classify the algorithm than to\nprotect its security. They want to protect its market share.\n\nIf they publish the algorithm, then shortly manufacturers would\nmake chips that implement the algorithm and standard but do not\nuse a key stored in escrow. And of course, everybody would buy them.\n\n\nThe whole push of this chip is that by establishing a standard that\nyou can only use if you follow their rules, they get us to follow\ntheir rules without enacting new laws that we would fight tooth and\nnail.\n\nQuite simply, with Clipper established, it would be much harder for\nanother encryption maker to define a new standard, to make phones that\ncan't talk to the leading phone companies. The result is tappable\ncryptography without laws forbidding other kinds, for 99% of the\npopulace.\n\n\nTo get untappable crypto, you would have to build a special phone that\nruns on top of this system, and everybody you talk to would have to\nhave an indentical one.\n\nThat's the chicken and egg of crypto. The government is using its\nvery special ability to solve chicken and egg problems of new\ntechnologies to control this one in a way they like.\n\n\nIt's almost admirably clever. When the EFF started, I posed the question here\n\"What are the police going to do when they wake up and discover they\ncan't wiretap?\" and nobody here had an answer (or even thought it was\nmuch of a question)\n\nThen came the backdoor and Digital Telephony bills, which we fought.\n\nNow we have their real answer, the cleverest of all.\n", "\nIt does give privacy, just not absolute privacy. The announcement was very \nup front about this, and about allowing wiretaps. How is this \"fooling\" \nanyone?\n\n\nSure. The two don't interoperate. You couldn't talk to, say, a Cylink phone \nfrom a Clipper phone. I would expect even multiprotocal phones to come with \nindicators saying which kind of link encryption is in use...\n\n\nSo start a company and build them. This is still mostly a capitalist \neconomy...\n\n\nI agree. Go for it.\n", "Thus said djb@silverton.berkeley.edu (D. J. Bernstein):\n\nGiven the description of the algorithm given, the only plausible\nexplantion I can find is that K_P must be agreed to out of bandwidth\nin advance by the two parties; i.e. it's a standard shared symmetric\nkey.", "\n\nThe Attorney General publishes the number of court-ordered taps each year.\nIt isn't enough (around a thousand) for the average non-crook, non-spy to\nworry about. In fact, considering any reasonable guess about the number of\nbig-time crooks and spies around, it may not be enough even for most crooks\nand spies to worry about.\n\nThere's no reason to believe that it will go up with Clipper, since the\nnumber of taps now includes many targets too stupid to use encryption (based\non the playbacks we've heard in court cases).\n\nDavid\n", "\nGetting rid of the keys is actually pretty easy to do automatically on\na communications link, as opposed to storage where the keys have to be\nretained somehow as long as the owner wants to be able to retrieve the\ndata.\n\nThe right way to do communications security is to generate a random\nsession key with Diffie Hellman, use it for a while and then destroy\nit. Once it's gone, there's no getting it back, and no way to decrypt\nrecordings of the conversation.\n\nTo make sure you aren't being attacked by a man in the middle, you\nhave to authenticate your DH exchanges. The AT&T secure phone does\nthis by displaying the DH key so you can compare them verbally over\nthe phone. This is nice and simple, but it relies on user awareness\nplus the inability of the man in the middle to duplicate the users'\nvoices.\n\nA better way is to authenticate the exchanges with RSA. Since you'd\nnever use RSA for actual encryption, compromising your RSA secret key\nwould only allow someone to impersonate you in a future conversation,\nand even that only until you revoke your public key. They would still\nnot be able to decrypt recordings of prior conversations for which the\nsession keys have been destroyed.\n\nI'm convinced that this is how the government's own secure phones\n(the STU-III) must work. Neat, eh?", "\n\nWRONG: I don't think even PKP claims this one. It is not unlawful to\ndistribute code implementing RSA. It appears to be unlawful to use it, so\nI agree with your last sentence.\n\n\nYes, that's correct.", "\n\nWell, it's said that people get the government they deserve.\n\nDon't worry, you'll get yours. You'll sleep much better when\neveryone with thoughts not on the government 'approved' list\nis rounded up and executed.", ": \n: All I have to say is...yeah, right. If you're willing to pay them\n: mucho big bucks and/or use the routines *they* tell you to do. \n: Doesn't sound very reasonable to me.\n\nAll I have to say is this is full of shit. I have negotiated a license\nand the bucks are incredibly reasonable with an upfront charge on a\nsliding scale depending on your capitalization. If you are a startup\nand can't afford it you can't afford to start up in the first place.\nWhy do people insist on making unequivocal statements about that which\nthey know nothing.\n\n: \n: But I don't guess PKP and RSA are interested in big bucks. Maybe\n: they have some other agenda? Secure communications only for \n: government agents, perhaps?\n\nHave you considered treatment for paranoia? The government is the\nsingle biggest thorn in RSA's side.\n\n: \n: Some limitation. Let me guess: don't use the code in any way PKP or\n: RSA doesn't like....such as...providing secure communications for the\n: average citizen.\n\nThat was exactly its purpose if you know anything about it. There is\nnothing at all preventing the average citizen using it, only selling\nit.\n\n: \n: I hope my cynicism is misplaced here. Go ahead...I'm not afraid to\n: be wrong every once in a while. But, I have an uneasy feeling that I\n: am right. :(\n\nIt is and you are wrong yet you emotionally state a bunch of crap as fact\nwith a tiny disclaimer at the end. Check your facts first and grow up.\nWhy is there such a strong correlation between interest in cryptography\nand immaturity I wonder.", "\nAt the company I worked for previously, I received a file that was des encryped\nand the person that had sent it, went on vaction. Rather than wait two weeks\nI set up a straight frontal attack with one key at a time. It only took two(2)\ndays to crack the file. No, I don't have any faith in DES.\n\nA.G.\n\n\n", "\nIf the Clipper chip can do cheap crypto for the masses, obviously one\ncould do the same thing WITHOUT building in back doors.\n\nIndeed, even without special engineering, you can construct a good\nsystem right now. A standard codec chip, a chip to do vocoding, a DES\nchip, a V32bis integrated modem module, and a small processor to do\nglue work, are all you need to have a secure phone. You can dump one\nor more of the above if you have a fast processor. With integration,\nyou could put all of them onto a single chip -- and in the future they\ncan be.\n\nYes, cheap crypto is good -- but we don't need it from the government.\nYou can do everything the clipper chip can do without needing it to be\ncompromised. When the White House releases stuff saying \"this is good\nbecause it gives people privacy\", note that we didn't need them to\ngive us privacy, the capability is available using commercial hardware\nright now.\n\nIndeed, were it not for the government doing everything possible to\nstop them, Qualcomm would have designed strong encryption right in to\nthe CDMA cellular phone system they are pioneering. Were it not for\nthe NSA and company, cheap encryption systems would be everywhere. As\nit is, they try every trick in the book to stop it. Had it not been\nfor them, I'm sure cheap secure phones would be out right now.\n\nThey aren't the ones making cheap crypto available. They are the ones\nkeeping cheap crypto out of people's hands. When they hand you a\nclipper chip, what you are getting is a mess of pottage -- your prize\nfor having traded in your birthright.\n\nAnd what did we buy with our birthright? Did we get safety from\nforeigners? No. They can read conference papers as well as anyone else\nand are using strong cryptography. Did we get safety from professional\nterrorists? I suspect that they can get cryptosystems themselves on\nthe open market that work just fine -- most of them can't be idiots\nlike the guys that bombed the trade center. Are we getting cheaper\ncrypto for ourselves? No, because the market would have provided that\non its own had they not deliberately sabotaged it.\n\nSomeone please tell me what exactly we get in our social contract in\nexchange for giving up our right to strong cryptography?\n--\nPerry Metzger\t\tpmetzger@shearson.com", "\n:It occurs to me that if they get a wiretap order on you, and the escrow\n:houses release your code to the cops, your code is now no longer secure.\n\nA very good point!\n\n:It's in the hands of cops, and while I am sure most of the time they are\n:good, their security will not be as good as the escrow houses.\n\nWhy should we expect the cops to be honest! They're underpaid\nfor the risks they face every day. The media dumps on the all\nthe time and blames them for all sorts of discrimination,\nbrutality.... How can we expect them to be more than human?\n\nBesides there are lots of cases of police abuses ranging from\nprotection scams to outright robbery (when I worked in D.C. there\nwas a breakin at a local Radio Shack and the alarm company heard the\ncops responding to the call over the audio pickup in the store:-).\n\n:What this effectively means is that if they perform a wiretap on you,\n:at the end of the wiretap, they should be obligated to inform you that\n:a tap was performed, and replace (for free) the clipper chip in your\n:cellular phone so that it is once again a code known only to the\n:escrow houses.\n\nThen you would know that Big Brother had been listening. Does he\nreally want to let you know?\n\n:Do the police normally reveal every tap they do even if no charges are\n:laid? In many ways, it would be a positive step if they had to.\n:Judges set time limits on warrants, I assume. At the end of the time\n:limit they should have to renew or replace your chip.\n\n:That's if we go with this scheme, which I am not sure I agree with.\n\nI'm completely against anything that makes it easier for the\ngovernment to encroach on the rights of individuals. The\nfounders of this country spent a lot of effort limiting the power\nof the government and specifying exactly what the governments\nrights were (and this didn't include a gov't spy in every\nbedroom). IMHO, there are entirely too many things going on\ntoday designed to preserve the government organism at the expense\nof individuals. Look around and reread 1984 and many early\nHeinlein books. Aren't there many parallels between the thought\npolice (can you spell Waco Texas?), and Heinlein's ``Crazy Years''?\n\nBill", "As promised, I spoke today with the company mentioned in a Washington\nTimes article about the Clipper chip announcement. The name of the company\nis Secure Communicatiions Technology (Information will be given at the end\nof this message on how to contact them).\n\n Basically they are disturbed about the announcement for many reasons that\nwe are. More specifically however, Mr. Bryen of Secure Communications\nbrought to light many points that might interest most of the readers.\n\n His belief is that AT&T was made known of the clipper well before the\nrest of the industry. This is for several reasons, several of which are:\n\n - A company of AT&T's size could never be able to make a decision to use\n the new chip on the SAME DAY it was announced.\n\n - Months ago they proposed using their own chip for AT&T's secure telephone\n devices. AT&T basically blew them off as being not interested at all.\n This stuck them as strange, until now...\n\n\n Also I spoke with Art Melnick, their cryptographer, he expressed several\nconcerns over the new Clipper Chip:\n\n - The obvious backdoor will be able to let many people decrypt the code.\n\n - Once the key is released to authorities the security of the crypto\n system is lost forever. These keys can end up in the hands of any agency\n of the government.\n\n - The fact that the escrowed keys never change means that the algorithm\n is vulnerable over time to an attacker.\n\n - The classified algorithm may hide another backdoor. But he feels that\n it is probably to keep people from forging fake serial numbers, or\n changing the keys themselves.\n\n - Additionally he feels that the NSA has probably spent enough time and\n money in working on a way to keep this chip from being reversed\n engineered, that he feels that reverse engineering it will be very\n difficult to do. He feels that they have developed a suitable technique\n to protect the chip from this attack. Also he feels that the chip is\n hardware encoded with the algorithm and not microcoded onto the chip.\n\nAdditonally I spoke with Mr. Melnick about their algorithm. He couldn't tell\nme much about their new agorithm because it hasn't been patented yet.\nHowever he told me a little:\n\n - The algorithm will be released for public review after patents have been\n granted for it. This is so the crypto community can see that it is\n secure.\n\n - The algorithm is called NEA for New Encryption Algorithm.\n The details were sketchy because now it is held as a trade secret\n until the patent was issued, but I was told that it will incorporate\n the following:\n\n - It will have fast encryption of data (Exact specs not given, but\n Mr. Melnick stated \"Much faster than what an RS-232 can put out.\")\n\n - It is a symmetric cipher, just like IDEA and DES.\n\n - It will use 64 bit data blocks for encryption (like DES and IDEA).\n\n - The key length was not given to me, but Mr. Melnick states that\n it is _adujustable_ and is \"More than adequate for security.\"\n\n - The algorithm is written in C and Assembler in software form, and\n can be ported to many platforms (Unlike the the Clipper Chip which\n is hardware ONLY and cannot be made into software) This I\n consider a definite plus for the NEA for widespread use.\n\n - The algorithm will accomodate public key distribution techniques\n such as RSA or Diffie-Hellman. This will also be supported in the\n hardware chip.\n\n - Right now the projected cost of the NEA chip will be about 10 dollars\n for each!! (Clipper will run 25 each chip [that is if it is produced\n enough, which probably won't happen]).\n\n - They currently sell a program called C-COM that uses the algorithm\n and a special streaming protocol that does not divide the encrypted\n data into \"blocks.\" This could prevent plaintext attacks if you know\n what the block header is. This program operates at all supported\n RS-232 speeds and uses the software implementation of the algorithm.\n\n - Most importantly: IT DOES NOT HAVE A BACKDOOR!!\n\n\n\nRight now the company is afraid that the new clipper chip will put them out\nof business. This is a very real possibility. So they really need help in\nstopping the clipper chip from becoming a standard. If you want to contact\nthem, they can be reached at..\n\nSecure Communications Technology\n8700 Georgia Ave. Suite 302\nSilver Spring, MD\n\n(301) 588-2200\n\nI talked to Mr. Bryen who represents the company. He can answer any\nquestions you have.\n\n\n\n\nAny factual errors occurring in this write up are my own and I apologize for\nthem ahead of time.\n\n ", "Isn't Clipper a trademark of Fairchild Semiconductor?", "dwight tuinstra posts a very interesting message in which he comments on the\neffects of the Clipper chip on state and local police. Actually, reading\nbetween the lines, it could be a very good thing for civil liberties in one\nrespect, since it will at least prevent cowboy cops and cowboy state and\nlocal agancies from reading your traffic if they tap it illegally.\n\nThere has been extensive discussion in the eff forum, for example, about\ninadmissible taps being used to develop information that could then lead to\nadmissible evidence. This might put a stop to such things, which must from\ntime to time be simple fishing expeditions.\n\nDavid", "\n[...]\n\n Who makes them forget and destroy all copies of the key once they've\ndecided you're not a criminal today? Just curious.\n------- Any views expressed are those of myself and not my employer. --------\nSteven C. Johnson, WB3IRU / VK2GDS |\nTRW | johnson@trwacs.fp.trw.com\nFP1 / 3133 | [129.193.172.90]\n1 Federal Systems Park Drive | Phone: +1 (703) 968.1000\nFairfax, Virginia 22033-4412 U.S.A. | Fax: +1 (703) 803.5189", "[...]\n\nWith all the activity in sci.crypt these past few days, I am not supprised\nyou missed it... NIST got Skipjack from the NSA :)\n\n[...]\n\n\"I am not a crook.\" President Richard M. Nixon\n ^^^^^^^^^", "\n Also not a lawyer, etc. but if I remember correctly the Contempt of Court\nbusiness is used in order to compel cooperation with what is (perhaps\nquestionably, different issue) the legitimate business of that court. Quite\nliterally the party is found guilty of holding the court \"in contempt\". Now,\nthe original scheme as suggested here would be to have the key disappear if\ncertain threatening conditions are met. Once the key is gone there is no\nquestion of Contempt of Court as there is nothing to compell, the key is no\nlonger there to be produced.\n\n Obstruction of justice would be a different issue but if the suspect in\nquestion would have some legitmate reason to protect his data from prying eyes\n(however extenuated) I think that this charge would be a hard nut to make. \n\n Perhaps it is time for a lawyer to step in and clear this all up?\n\n\n -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- -=*=-\n \nVincent A. Kub, WD0DBX | \"Saints should always be judged\n | guilty until they are proven\n vkub@charlie.usd.edu | innocent.\" -Geo. Orwell\n |\n 14 W.Cherry St. #2 | \"It is good to die before one has\n Vermillion, S.Dakota 57069 | done anything deserving of death.\"\nphone or fax to (605) 624-8680 | - Anaxandirdes\n | King of Sparta\n -------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----\nVersion: 2.2", "\n\n\nI don't think mr. Clinton can even understand the technical details of\nthe clipper encryption scheme. So, his \"assurances\" are of no value at\nal, if he gives them he just says what a panel of experts(?) told him.\nIf I lived in the USA, I would hope those experts were not paid by the\n.", "\nAs am I\n\nIf \"high quality secure NSA classified technology\" means handing my key\nover to whomever, I'll take PGP any day.\n\nRight now they are billing it as voluntary, i.e. bend over, here it comes.\n\nAs soon as enough Wiretap chip based units are out there, how much\neasier do you think it will be to redefine \"on your own\" to mean\nwrite it yourself and don't even THINK about distributing it...?\n\nGet honest, no one is going to buy this trash if they KNOW it's compromised\nalready, and less will buy it if the algorithm is not disclosed.\n\nThe NSA knows that making this stuff available to the public means\nhanding it to whatever foreign powers are interested in the process.\nSince when has export control stopped anyone (especially software wise)\n\nAsk yourself carefully if \" high quality secure NSA classified technology \"\nis something they are going to hand out. Not unless you can drive a\nNSA van through the holes.\n\nuni (Dark)\n", "In <1993Apr17.032828.14262@clarinet.com>, brad@clarinet.com sez:\n\nUnder the relevant federal law, 18 USC sec. 2518(8)(d), the\nauthorizing judge must notify the targets within 90 days after the tap\nperiod (with extensions) expires. This is the \"normal\" practice.\n\nOf course, no wiretap law would be complete without the Unless Clause,\nwhich in subsection 8(d) reads like this: \"On an ex parte showing\n[i.e., by the gov't without opposition, since that would obviously\ninvolve notice to the targets] of good cause to a judge of competent\njurisdiction the serving of the inventory required by this subsection\n[the order itself; dates of interception; etc.] *may be postponed*\"\n(emphasis added).\n\n\n[Followups directed to a few select groups.]\n", "After reading the debate over the Clipper, I have a few things to\nadd.\n\n\tFirst, most of the people I know who activly use encryption\nprivately do not care about most of the issues that surround this debate,\nand any questions about what is or is not ok to use in the US. All they\ncare about is wether or not what they are using is secure or not. That,\nafter all IS the bottom line. \n\n\tSecond, if I look at all the people I know who use any form\nof encryption at all, and this group spans people from the morons who\nstill insist that the DES is a good and secure standard, to people \nlooking at trying to improve upon existing strategies, I can not think\nof anyone of them who would approve blindly of a strategy that leaves\ntheir methods open to abuse. The Clipper does this, because people make\nmistakes by nature, and the US government is made up of people who are\njust as vulnerable to mistakes as everyone else. \n\n\tThird, since most of the people I know are at least marginaly\nfamiliar with the vulnerabilities present in current software encryption\nstratigies, I can't see how most of them are going to blindly trust that\nsomeone will not figure out a good way to compromise the Clipper Chip.\nThat despite any strengths or weaknesses that may exist in it. So, I can \nnot see a high degree of confidence developing in the chip.\n\n\tFourth, when it comes to criminal abuse, sure there are many stupid\npeople out there. And yes, some will be open to being caught via the \nbuilt in back door of the Clipper Chip. However, anyone who is going to\ndo any serious investigation of how best to secure their data is going\nto run into that problem pretty damned fast and, I would assume, start\nlooking around for other easily obtainible methods of encryption. \n\n\n\tIf nothing else were avalible, none of this would be an issue. However,\nthe truth is that most private encryption users that I've ever run into\nsimply do not give a damn about the legal status of RSA or PGP or anything\nelse. If it works, they use it. This is not going to change either. I do\nnot think for a moment that anyone with serious criminal intent will be\nslowed down by the advent of the Clipper Chip. It is all to easy to \nconvert encrypted data into unintellgible garbage as it is, if anything,\nthe Clipper Chip just adds another tool to the user.\n\n\n\tThe bottom line here is that people will use what works, and\nunavoidibly, I'm sure most criminals would rather face an encryption\nrelated charge than one which could potentialy lead to death penalty\ncharges in the case of criminals who murder as part of their conspiricy.\n\tThe other thing that has struck me since the advent and wide \nuseage of public encryption has begun is that quite simply the cat is\nout of the bag (Or if you have an interest in snooping, Pandora's Box\nhas been opened), and this is not going to change. I've seen a blindness\nto this that I've found utterly stunning, and the Clipper Chip, along\nwith the way it has been presented only confirms this to me to a larger\ndegree.\n\n\n\t\t\tSincerly,\n\n\t\t\tTim Scanlon\n\n-- ", "\nInteresting. Tell us, what happens if I were to say OK, I want to have\nsomething else. If the law enforcement wants my traffic, they can record\nit, then get a search warrant, and get the keys FROM ME, just like they\nwould the keys to a stout private safe, etc. (Lets say I suspect that\nthere is a way to trivially crack this at the Fed level, with no warrant,\nsay for NSA scanning for keywords, etc., and the government has abused\ngreat power in the past...).\n\nSo I say \"Mr Vendor, I want something different, independent. I am\na paranoid sort, ya understand...\".\n\nWill the result be \"Sorry, without Government permission, we cannot sell\nyou anything secure\", or would it be \"Sorry, we know which side our\nbread is buttered on, we cannot sell except to government people, law\nenforcement, and 'special' people...\".\n\nWhat, in your opinion, would be the chances of \"sure, we will sell you\nthis secure system ... be happy to...\"\n\nAlso, please be so kind as to tell us what the plans are for private\nencryption of, say files transferred by modem, or FTP, or data stored\non disk? SURELY you have a feel for what the administration is planning\nfor us people on that.... With your rather intimate relationship with\nthe FBI, NSA, etc. you must CERTAINLY have an idea. You are surely\nnot going to say \"the people are not to know, until it is too late...\"\nThis IS supposed to be government of the people by the PEOPLE, isn't\nit? That is, the people ARE the government's BOSSES? The BOSSES\nwant to know what the *@()#*&(@ is going on here...\n\nYou see, I am kind of nervous, because in the last month or so, I have\nseen a non-stop stream of ideas coming out of Wash DC that at least\nappear VERY STRONGLY to have a common trait to limit privacy (freedom\nfrom Govt eavesdropping), and the ability to defend ourselves against\nviolent attack (no, 911 is *NOT* good enough for 'common folk', they\narrive only in time to clean up the mess: I would be DEAD if I had to\ndepend on 911...). You see, with all that talk about National smart\nID cards, limiting of encryption to 'government approved', denial of\nmeans to effective personal defense (EIGHT bills in congress right now),\nit looks an AWFULLY lot like the whole thing is to be able to trace\nEVERY ACTIVITY of an individual from cradle to grave. All it would take\nis requiring that National ID card to be used in all transactions...\nand with no effective data protection, and with the people suitably\ndisarmed, there would not be a helluva lot they could do about it, now\nwould there? All in the name of the War on the Constitu ... er ...\ndrugs, and of course that catch word 'terrorists'. What is wrong with\ngood OLD-FASHIONED POLICE WORK to build a case? They don't want to\nhave to be burdened to leave the office, it seems...\n\nPlease read the Bill of Rights (first ten amendments to the US\nConstitution) and tell us how you can reconcile this Big Brother-ish\npolicy of the Administration (always for a 'crisis' of some kind, isn't\nit?) with that Bill of Rights in the context of the people who wrote\nit?\n\nReassure us - please... (or is that no longer regarded as necessary,\nseeing as apparantly the people have NO input on this agenda, the\nAdministration preferring to make all the DECISIONS in secret, then\nspringing it on us...). Doesn't sound much like ... by the PEOPLE\nto me. I cannot help notice that the congress people involved were\nNOT mentioned on the press release. I find that more than a little\nbit curious, don't you? I sure would like to know who to not vote\nfor come election time...\n\nYes, I am upset. I feel you are a part of this, because I recall it\nwas you that was posting HEAVILY in favor of a very similar idea (could\nhave been the SAME thing, it was so close) a few months ago... I\nalso recall it was not well received. Apparantly powers-that-be\nreally didn't care (or were not told, or both).\n\nFrom what I see, Clipper will ONLY be useful for conversations I don't\nwant the neighborhood kid listening in on. Any SERIOUS security I don't\nthink I would want to trust it a bit. Might as well use cleartext.\nCertainly corporations would be rather dumb to depend on this for serious\ntrade-secret data, especially if millions depended on that security.\nGiven enough money, one could BUY any keys they wanted. Buy a crooked\njudge, and a crooked cop. Given a few hundred thou, they wouldn't be\nhard to find. So, we end up with only criminals, terrorists, and the\nGovernment with real security, and the ability to eavesdrop. You know\nthe first two, if they are serious, ain't going to use this thing for\nTHEIR communications. I bet the government won't, either (except perhaps\nto order a pizza).\n\nTell us, will that be prima face evidence of criminal activity,\nsomeone not using the 'government approved' methods? That just a desire\nto have PRIVACY is no longer regarded as a legitimate right of an\nunconnected citizen? Will that be grounds for a fly-through-the-door\nraid, and confiscation of all one's equipment, as 'terrorist tools',\nusing civil forfeiture, so there will be no inconvenient need to\nPROVE any wrongdoing on the part of the citizen?\n\nI have yet another question, are we going to see articles in all the\npublic magazines, consisting of soothing text telling us how great\nthis is, how nice the government is by LETTING us have this illusion\nof privacy? That the government is going to be so kind as to let\nus 'sort of' exercise a RIGHT? What you want to bet that I am\ncorrect here?\n\nPlease answer these questions. As citizens of the United States, we\nhava a RIGHT to know what our Government plans to 'let' us have\nout of the goodness of their hearts...\n\nFunny thing, though - with all these proposals, I don't feel ONE BIT\nsafer from drug dealers, terrorists, or a common street thug. I am\nbeginning to wonder if the greater danger lies in the above entities,\nor our own government gone out of control?\n\nRe-assure us, please. So far, I haven't seen much to reassure me...\nand a LOT to greatly disturb me.\n", " >I wouldn't think so. Asking people to trust a secret algorithm seems\n >unsound to me.\n\n Maybe so, but it's quite common. There are millions of Macintosh users who\n have no idea what's in Apple's patented ROMs. Many have modems connected.\n How do you know all your business secrets aren't being stolen? Answer:\n 1. Because you trust Apple;\n 2. Because if any such attempt, however sophicsticated, came out, it would\n destroy Apple's credibility forever.\n\nThen there's also\n3) Because it's NOT SECRET. If I want to, I CAN go look at Apple's\ncopyrighted ROMs in a Mac, so they're not keeping any secrets. \nYou don't even have to pry the top off the chip and use an electron microscope,\nyou just have to read the data in memory and see if you can figure out what it means.\n(Motorola object code isn't all *that* obscure!) \nYes, it's copyrighted, so I can't go selling copies, or using the copy myself,\nbut I CAN see it, and disassemble it.\n\n4) They're not asking me to trust their honesty. They're asking me to\ntrust the quality of their assembly language programming :-),\nbut I can see for myself what the performance, price, and crashes/day are.\nNSA, an organization not known for its honesty or openness, \nis asking me to trust them with my privacy, but they won't trust me. Feh!", ": Here is a disturbing thought.\n....good stuff elided....\n: Don't pretend that no one unauthorized will ever get their hands on\n: the escrow databases.\n: \n.......\n: secret. The escrow databases aren't the sorts of secrets that our\n: teachers told us about, but they are the sort of big secrets they\n: would lump into this category. Imagine trying to replace 100 million\n: Clipper chips.\n\nSounds to me like a *great* gimmick for a replacement market...every\nso often issue a \"Clipper Alert\" announcing that some key backup tapes\nare missing, that some Drug Lords got 'em, whatever. Then the owners\nof these $1200 Clipperphones have to trot down to their local Key\nEscrow Agency and buy new chips and have them programmed.\n\nMicrotoxin, the Clipper supplier, will make a killing...maybe this was\nthe real idea. (Anybody know if Janet Reno has stock in Microtoxin,\nVLSI Technology, or AT&T?)\n\nCould be a good opportunity to undermine this with some\ndisinformation: float rumors that the key database has been stolen.\nAll the chips need replacing. It angers people, undermines confidence\neven more, and kills sales.\n\nAfter the Waco Massacre and the Big Brother Wiretap Chip, any tactic\nis fair.\n\n-Tim May\n\n", "Pat Myrto says if law enforcement wants keys, let them get a court order and\nthen ask him for them.\n\nMost use of probably cause wiretapping warrants isn't to decrypt historical\ntraffic, but for prospective listening once probably cause is established.\nPat's approach would tip off the crooks.\n\nDavid", ": The cops/feds do *not* need to be able to get hold of your private key to\n: listen in to cellular conversations. Encryption is not end-to-end, but \n: cellphone to base-station - it *has* to be this way so that cellular users\n: and fixed installations can talk to each other. For cellular to cellular\n: calls, the transmission is decrypted at the base-station, passed to another\n: base-station and re-encrypted. The cops/feds can listen to the unscrambled\n: call *provided* they get a warrant to tap into the cellular provider's\n: equipment. The only reason for wanting a crackable system is so they can\n: listen without having to obtain a warrant.\n\n: But, maybe the Clipper system is secure, and they really do need a warrant\n: to get the key out of escrow before they can listen in using a scanner (see\n: above - they don't *have* to go down this route anyway). I have my doubts,\n: but even if true once they have the key they will *never* again need a\n: warrant to tap into that particular phone whenever they want. `Well, Judge,\n: it appears he wasn't a drug-dealer after all, so naturally we'll stop\n: listening in'...\n\nThat was true for the UK Paul, but I'm fairly sure they're talking about\nbuilding end-to-end encryption phones out of this chip. It's *not* for\ncellular (though it certainly could be used there in the way you suggest)", "Wouldn't this method be vulnerable against a \"birthday\" attack?\nCurrently a cracker needs to find the _only_ (*1) key that produces\nthe given ciphertext. He has to try about 2^63 keys on the average.\nIn the proposed method the cracker only needs _any pair_ of key halves.\nIf he can store about 2^32 guesses for one half, he is likely to find\na mathching pair in about 2^32 guesses. (Here I have assumed that the\nDES-encryption is reversable, if the key is guessed. Is this so or do\nthe modifications of the S-boxes by the salt bits make it non-reversable?)", "\n[...]\n[...]\n\nI believe you are mistaken. I don't believe the AG publishes the\nnumber of state wiretaps.\n\n- Carl\n", "\nLet me see if I have this straight --- if a person knows S1 and S2,\nand the serial number of the unit, it's easy to reconstruct UK.\nOf course, if they know SK, the \"family key\", they can easily get the\nserial number of any unit that has made a transmission. So with S1 and\nS2 being used for a while \"batch\" of the unit keys, the number of\nused S1/S2 pairs will probably be fairly low. Of course, you have to\nbelieve that the NSA/FBI/name-your-favorite-government agency will\nknow SK so all it needs is the S1/S2 pairs, and presto, nasty details \nlike court orders for wire taps are no longer necessary.\n\nNow, I'm not one of the people who distrusts the government at every\nturn, but taking someone's word for it that the S1/S2 pairs are not kept\naround is pushing what I'm willing to believe just a little bit too far.\n\n", "Argh. This is what I get for acknowledging David Sternlight's existence.\n\n\nOkay, it looks like I am going to have to do the history lesson after all.\n\nDuring the Vietnam war, there were a great many citizens opposed to it\nwho considered themselves perfectly law abiding, although Mr. Nixon and\nhis lackeys thought otherwise.\n\nThe Federal government had no compunction about adding \"people who\nare otherwise decent, law abiding and upstanding, but disagree with\nus\" to your nice little list. Do you think this could never happen\nagain?\n\nNote that I am not speculating about what the government could do,\nbut discussing the sort of \"observation\" - including but not limited\nto phone tapping - that the government put its citizens under during\na time of national tension.\n\nYour naivete is still appalling, BTW. I mean, read what you posted again.\nHow are we to differentiate between Good People and Bad People? Answer:\nA priori, we can't; we have to assume. Now, which way do we assume? Do\nwe assume a priori that a citizen is law-abiding, or rather a potential\nCommunistDrugLordChildAbuserCultMessiah? One of the things that's\nsupposedly great about America is the freedoms enjoyed by citizens who\nare presumed to be law-abiding until proven otherwise.\n--\n", "I'm attempting to write a serious policy paper examining whether the\nproposed wiretap (or \"Clipper\") chip is a cost-effective tool for\npolice investigation. That is, ignoring concerns about government\nintrusions into individual privacy, is the value of easy wiretaps to\ninvestigators greater than the cost to the communications industry,\nand their customers, to support this wiretap technology? \n\nA rough estimate suggests that wiretaps are worth about five million\ndollars per year to U.S. law enforcement agencies. (In 1990, 872 U.S.\nwiretaps led to 2057 arrests, while total police expenditures of $28\nbillion led to 11.25 million arrests [ref US Statistical Abstracts].)\nI'm working on estimating this wiretap benefit more accurately, but\nI'd like to ask hardware experts out there to help me with estimating\nthe costs of the new proposed wiretap technology.\n\nPlease send me quotable/citeable estimates for:\n\n- How many chips which would need to be made per year to keep all\n phones with wiretap chips?\n- How much would it cost to make each chip?\n- How much did it cost to develop this technology in the first place?\n- How much more would supporting hardware, people, etc. cost, per chip?\n- What percentage cheaper would encryption chips and support have been\n if private enterprise could compete to meet customer encryption needs?\n- What percentage of phone traffic would be taken up by the proposed\n \"law enforcement blocks\"?\n- What is the total cost of handling all phone traffic per year?\n\nPut another way, the question I'm asking is, what if each police\nagency that wanted a particular wiretap had to pay for it, being\ncharged their share of the full social cost of forcing communication\nto be wiretap compatible? Would they choose to buy such wiretaps, or\nwould they find it more cost-effective to instead investigate crimes\nin other ways?", "WOW !!!!\nDid I discover a great BBS !!\nIt's called Sovereignty Lies In The People\nBBS: 916-589-4620 14.4 k baud. FREE and Confidential\n! Fictitious names OK ! Subjects and files contained on the BBS:\n\n* FIND OUT HOW THE GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN SCAMMING US !!!!\n* State Citizenship documents and issues.\n ARE YOU A CALIFORNIA REPUBLIC CITIZEN OR A U.S. FEDERAL CITIZEN ?\n Remember there were only State Citizens before the 14th amendment!!\n One is subject to federal income tax, one isn't.\n Did you volunteer to surrender your State Citizenship when you got\n your Social Security number? Which one are you?\n* Tax laws and issues. BEAT THE IRS\n* Traffic laws and issues. BEAT TRAFFIC TICKETS. Can you answer this one:\n What law allows a police officer to arrest you without a warrant when\n he issues you a ticket?\n* Religious truth issues. ARE ALL RELIGIONS SCAMS ????\n ARE ALL CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS OF THE GREAT CREATOR GOD ????\n* Trust documents and issues.\n\nThe SYSOP told me that instructions to beat traffic\ntickets will be on the BBS shortly. Beat traffic\ntickets without going to court!!! The BBS is GREAT, spread the word !!!!\nAlso: How come I don't hear more people talking about the\nFederal Reserve Bank? Just ask yourself these questions:\n\n1) Why would anyone borrow money from themselves at interest?\nThe Federal government does * NOT * * NOT *\nThe Federal reserve Bank is private. The American people are\nbeing ripped off royally. 100% of the income tax goes to pay\non the Federal debt to the Federal Reserve Bankers. Not one\ndime goes for services. Services like the military and\nwelfare come from excise taxes and the like.\n\n2) Why do we the American people stand for this?????", "...\n\nI seriously doubt that any practical implementation of this proposal would\nplace the onus on the individual to register keys. Realistically, the\nClipper-Chip will probably emit an ID code which will serve as the identifier\nwhen requesting the key fragments. The chip manufacturer would register\nthis identifier code vs. key combination when the chip is made and the\n(uninitiated) end-user can therefore remain completely outside the loop.\nThe chip could be used in a cellular phone, a modem, or other device --\nit really makes no difference: When the authorities detect the use of this\nencryption standard during surveillance, they would then capture the ID\nand apply for the key in order to decrypt the data.", "\n\n Of course, nothing prevents you from buying a new lock with cash\nand installing it yourself. Even modifying the core to match some\narbitrary key is not difficult to do at home. I once knew someone who\nhad fixed his locks in this way - his house, office and cars all took\nthe same key (which he took GOOD care of :-)\n\n\n\n Very bad (yours, that is). Have you ever had a safety deposit box?\nThey work on a two-key system. The bank clerk has one, and you have\nthe other (they are different keys). The bank does NOT keep a copy of\nyour key. If you lose it, they have to drill out the lock, and replace\nthe door. This is a time consuming and expensive process (which they\nwill be happy to charge to your account :-).\n\n This process is exactly analogous to having a private key which\nis NOT in a escrow system, and the state having to crack your cipher\nto get the data.\n\n Please do not use false analogies.", "My earlier argument that \"Clipper will encourage state and local cops \nto commit criminal acts\" is largely moot, now that we've learned that \nthe FBI will perform the actual tap. [It will encourage the *FBI* to\ncommit (even more) criminal acts, but that's not the point here.]\n\nBut this gives another avenue of attack on the Clipper proposal. When\nthe EFF/ACLU/CPSR FOIA requests are made, they should ask for details\non the bureaucratic and equipment infrastructure that is proposed (or \neven already budgeted) for the FBI to service tapping requests -- for now\nand the projected future. \n\nFrom these figures, estimate the number of Clipper-tap requests the FBI\nis expecting. Publish this figure. Compare it on a per-capita basis\nwith the amount of tapping now known or suspected.\n\nAlso estimate how expensive it would be for the FBI to install more\nClipper-tapping stations, and how rapidly they could be built and\ninstalled ... ie, get the \"plus or minus\" epsilon for the near future.\n\nMight be a mite disturbing for J. Q. Public to know these things.\n\nAnd despite all the technical details [BTW, thanks to those who've been\nproviding them!], we still don't know \n\n1) how the tapping requests will be transmitted and authenticated (though\n it isn't too hard to guess a good scheme).\n\n2) how the results will be securely transmitted (Fed Ex the audio tapes?)\n\n3) how privacy will be re-established when an investigation is complete.", "\nDon't forget Chemical Abstracts Service (which is pretty much the international\nclearinghouse for all chemical information), whose former director (Ronald\nWigington) and head of R&D (Nick Farmer) were openly former NSA employees.", "I thought that the Clipper Chip that was posted to t.p.g (sorry, I lost\nthe original post) was a joke. I really did. I didn't believe it for\na second. But on the way to work this morning, I heard about it on NPR.\n\nThis scares me almost as much as the doublespeak emanating from the\nFBI and BATF in Waco.\n", "I have been looking over the postings about the Clipper Chip and noticed\nan interesting omission from the discussion.\n\nYou all mention that the algorithm is classified and have expressed \nconcerns and ideas of how to figure out the algorithm using software.\n\nThe question that I have is why cant someone take one of these chips\nand reverse engineer it? I mean, take the thing to a chip testing/\nanalysis facility, one with a decent electron microscope. Just pry\noff the top of the chip and start scanning it with the electron\nmicrocope and figure out the circuitry. I remembered a place that I use\nto work for had one of these facilities that they used to analyze chips\nthat we accidently blew out while running tests. They could actually find\nthe area that was fried and show us where in the circuit it was. \n\nI am sure that many companies and universities must have these facilities\nand that the potential is there, especially at a university where the\nsecurity at such a facility is looser, for someone to take a clipper\napart and analyze it?\n\nWhat can the government do to prevent this? Start taking away all \nmicrochip analysis facilities and electron microscopes??", "\n\n\tI am an idiot. The plaintext that's relevant is the session key.\nIf you know that, you probably don't need a roomful of chips, do you?\nIf you were going to brute force something interesting, that'd be the\nmessage stream, which is sort of approximately known by, say, a bug in\nmy office. Then your roomful of chips could get the session key. Which\nI change every morning.\n\n\tReally, it's just a whole lot easier for the illicit wiretappers\nto stick a bug in your phone.", " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\n I first heard rumors of a similar government proposal (in Risks\nDigest???) in 1987 or 1988.", " OK, I heard a lot of talk about the NSA's infamous control over encryption\n export through the ITAR. Here's a question. Say I develop this great new\n encryption system, and I want to sell my software worldwide. The thought\n police then come in and say \"This algorithm is a threat to national security.\n You will not be permitted to export it.\" At this point, what kind of trouble\n could I get into if I ignored the ITAR and sold my program to international\n customers anyway?\n\nFirst of all, it's not the thought police, it's the export police.\nIf you move overseas with your great thoughts in your head, write the software there,\nand then sell it, the US Thought Police probably can't do too much about it,\nthough you might want to check with your lawyer first.\n\nHowever, if you write the program here, and sell it to furriners,\nyou are now an international arms dealer and can get thrown in the\nclink for *many* years, especially if they decide you'd be a good example,\nand Cuban Drug Dealers and Fanatic Middle Eastern Terrorists buy your stuff.\n\n(Definitions of \"public domain\" are different for ITAR purposes, so if\nyou've got a good enough lawyer who'll do your case for free after\nthey've confiscated everything you own as evidence, you might win.\nBut nobody wants to go first, since the stakes are _quite_ high.)", "\nSome thoughts:\n\nHas any work been done on encapsulating encrypted data inside \"non-encrypted\"\ndata files? Many file formats can be written with \"gaps\" in them to hide\nother data. New file formats could be designed to have alternate data hidden\nby dispersing it amongst the \"legitimate\" data. The hidden data would only\nshow up with the right key(s), and a file with hidden data would be\nindistinguishable from one without. So, only the correct key(s) would reveal\nthe presence of an \"illegal\" document.\n\nIf I devise a custom file compression algorithm and only I and a friend have\nthe uncompressor, and otherwise the file appears to be total gigerish, do I\nhave the right to transmit the file? Will we have to \"escrow\" all our data\nfile formats? Are gangs required to escrow their hand signals, colors and\ncatch phrases?", "\nI am not an expert in the cryptography science, but some basic things\nseem evident to me, things which this Clinton Clipper do not address.\nThe all pertain to opportunites for abuse, and conclusions based on what\nI have seen the membership of this group (except for two notable persons)\nagree to. If anything bad is possible by the government in theory, it\nalmost always ends up happening in fact. So the key is to make abuse\nIMPOSSIBLE. Question authority, and remember power DOES corrupt.\n\nI think one has to regard this whole idea in the sense that it WILL be\nexpanded to include other data forms, such as data transfer and stored\ndata. and as such should be treated as if it were expanded (or such\nexpansion will be almost impossible to stop, using Clipper as a precident).\nThere was a hint of that in the proposal, remember. That said, please\nbear with me, I am not very articulate, so I take more words to say\nwhat others could say much more briefly. Thank you.\n\n\nAs I suggested this is NOW. The hint is in the proposal that this or\nsimilar proposals are being considered for other forms of encryptions\nsuch as data transfer, data files, and such, largely dependent on how\nthis thing is accepted or flies. I think one would be wise to treat\nthis in the manner one would when (not if) it gets expanded to other\nareas than cellular phones. I think this is guaranteed to happen, if\nthis proposal gets by. Salami politics. It has been and is used in\nseveral other areas, it is certain to be used here. Government is not\ngoing to easily give up on the idea that they should be able to eavesedrop\nwhenever they want to. 'Court order required' has proven to be a rather\nflimsy guarantee. If the case warrants, they can always sieze the\nmaterial, and force one to give the key, or sit in jail forever on\nperiodically renewed contempt charges. So it is not denying the justice\nsystem the information, nor the ability to lock someone up if guilty\n(or refuses to divulge the means to access the info - this is not\nprotected under the Fifth - one can be forced to perform ACTS that would\nresult in divulging incriminating evidence). So, blocking restrictions\non private encryption is not preventing LEGITIMATE law enforcement - it\ndoes make ILLEGITIMATE law enforcement a bunch more difficult. Especially\nfishing expeditions without the target's knowlege. Don't give up the\nright to be safe from that - that should be non-negotiable, and Clinton\nand Co. know it (which is probably why they quietly developed this thing,\nfiguring if they get it this far, they can ram it on through). How come\nthose consulted could be roughly described as \"us insiders\"? They cannot\nquietely IMPLIMENT it though, when they ban other schemes to ensure its\nexclusive use. Hence the nice PR document to try and reassure everyone.\nDon't buy into it. Has government really earned that kind of trust,\npast or future? To be secure and free, one must keep government honest\nand the only way to do that is to make abuse IMPOSSIBLE, not 'unlikely'\nor 'difficult'.\n\n\nSo what? One could use information gained by re-use of the keys (saved\nafter the last case was finished) or other means (master key, backdoor,\neasily broken algorithm) to find other evidence which, given to a judge,\nwould authorize a tap which wouldn't have been possible otherwise. This\nhas been the more common manner of abuse of wiretaps in the past... For\nlocal cops, this might be workable to keep them honest, but the Feds\nhave a workaround somehow, BET on it. Does anyone really believe\nfor example, that the government will use a scheme NSA cannot listen\nin on scanning for keywords - either easily defeated in realtime or\nvia a 'master key'? I sure don't.\n\nThis whole thing sounds like something to eliminate the need to use\nold-fashioned police work to build a case. In the past, eavesdropping\nwas rather easy (with or without a court order). I think the Law\nEnforcement community has become a bit spoiled, and will resist changes\nthat require them to revert to using old-fashioned detective work. I\njust find it somewhat surprising coming from a bunch that cares so much\nabout civil and individual rights, that \"puts people first\". The question\nis \"put people first\" to WHERE?\n\nWith the innards not being revealed, how is one to be sure there DOESN'T\nexist a 'master key' for use by NSA, etc (so they can do their keyword\nscan, etc on conversations they routinely monitor, without a specific\ncourt order)? Remember, the cellular phone limitiation is only TEMPORARY.\nBet on it. And so far I have not heard about police telling people that\nthey have been tapped and nothing incriminating was found. What is to\nkeep them from simply keeping the keys on file for 'next time'? After\nawhile, they would have quite a collection. Kept especially for folks\nthey deem 'disruptive'. And if they get only one key, that would\nreduce the search space a lot, unless it is an RSA scheme. Remember\nNixon years? Need for court orders really slowed them down, didn't it?\n\nAnd unless the escrow accounts are not government controlled (fat chance!\nI see one ending up being under, say Treasury, the other under Justice\n:-)) it could be worth some serious bucks to some folks to get keys to\na competitor's Clinton Clipper (or descendent when this idea is expanded\nto be used for all non-government encryption). Enough bucks would get\none the keys or the innards for this algorithm. Perhaps not an important\nconcern, but given past government behavior and the other problems...\n\n\nWhat will one do when it is expanded to data storage encryption? You\ncan BET that if Clipper is accepted, that will be next on the agenda.\nIt is even hinted at in the proposal - read it carefully... Expect the\nargumet \"well, if you got nothing to hide...\" Fine. Then using that\nargument, one should not object to video cameras being installed in\nevery room of one's home. Granted - an exteme expansion of the idea but\nthe principle holds. Private stuff should remain private, even from a\ngovt fishing expedition. And laws/rules may change in the future as\nto 'safeguards'. When it comes to the Fed Government, safeguards are\npretty meaningless, if they want to do/get something.\n\nDon't work so hard to give up some rather treasured rights, or establish\nbad precidents, please. The price could be hell to pay, later.\n\n\nPeople would fight laws forbidding more NOW, but in, say two years,\nbecause we have this 'crisis' situation which MUST be addressed by some\n'drastic action', just this added reasonable restriction will only bother\nthose who have someting to hide... etc. Please don't buy into it.\n\nIf the Clinton Clipper is so very good, why not make its algrithm public\nso many people can exchange ideas and examine it, rather than a few\nisolated 'respected experts' (respected by whom? for what? Perhaps a\ncertain professor who likes key banks would be one of the selected\nexperts... this does seem to expand on some ideas the person was\nadvocating, if I recall :-). How would anybody know that what the\nexperts examine is the same as what will end up being used in the Clipper\nChip, if it is kept secret? Perhaps the Clipper will use a crippled\nversion (with a 'master key' provision), or features not present in the\nversion subjected for study and evaluation by the experts. And who\nchooses the expertes? The government? No conflict of interest there...\n:-)\n\nAnd isn't it a REQUIREMENT for any decent encryption scheme that it NOT\nhave its effectiveness reduced by having the algrorithm widely known?\nI was lead to believe that one should assume the other side has everything\nyou have, except for the key(s)... I recall ideas presented to this\ngroup are rejected if a requirement exists the algorithm be secret...\n\nAnother question - since it is a safe bet this Clipper thing would not\nbe used for government security, they are regarding it as not real secure\nbut \"good enough\" for common folk. I think I would like to see a full\ndescription (not a PR non-statement) of just what \"good enough\" means?\nI think when saying how strong it is, \"good enough\" really means \"not\nvery\". The excuse that other countries have these restrictions is not\nacceptable: Other countries do not have our Bill of Rights and\nConstitution (which the people, not the governments, of those other\ncountries often regard with envy - what we have as rights they have as\nrevokable privileges). And if we expect to retain those rights and\nprotections, we must not allow them to be gutted because we just GOTTA\nhave this thing to 'fight crime'. We have allready have our Bill of\nRights pretty much torn to shreds. We should not permit more weakining\nfor yet another 'noble cause', instead we should be trying to repair\nthe damage. Our crime problem may have a number of causes, but \"too\nmany rights and safeguards\" is not a signifigant one. A broken court\nsystem and poor police work are a much more signifigant cause as having\n\"too many rights\" (disregarding addressing the root causes for crime,\netc).\n\nBTW - those who suggest that this is just an attack on Clinton, believe\nthis: I would be going ballistic reagardless WHO seriously proposed\nthis thing. It is just another step in a gradual erosion of our rights\nunder the Constitution or Bill of Rights. The last couple of decades\nhave been a non-stop series of end-runs around the protections of the\nConstitution. It has to stop. Now is as good a time as any, if it\nisn't too late allready.\n\n\n", "I want to add link encryption to a module that multiplexes upper\nlevel routines into a single data link. The upper levels won't know\nabout this, and thus key exchange shall only need to occur once (at\nthe initial link establishment). I figure that I can do this with\nDES and a Diffie-Hellman key exchange.\n\nIs using a Diffie-Hellman exchange to establish a 64 bit DES key\nacceptable, in other words, what are the pro's and con's of such a \nsetup? Are there any important issues to watch out for (aside from\nfiltering out unacceptable keys)?\n\nAnd in order to achieve this, I guess I will need to use 64bit math\nroutines (for probable prime number calculation, exponentiation etc),\nso could someone point me towards a good package (this is strictly\nnon-commercial).\n\nMatthew.", "\n\n\nwell, IMHO (and i am just a nobody net.user) henry spencer is to\nsci.* as kibo is to alt.* and rec.*....\n\n....but i could be wrong...(did anybody mention the illuminati)\n\nkitten\n--", "If you look through this newsgroup, you should be \n\table to find Clinton's proposed \"Wiretapping\" Initiative\n\tfor our computer networks and telephone systems.\n\n\tThis 'initiative\" has been up before Congress for at least\n\tthe past 6 months, in the guise of the \"FBI Wiretapping\"\n\tbill.\n\n\tI strongly urge you to begin considering your future.\n\n\tI strongly urge you to get your application for a passport\n\tin the mail soon.", " >a real RNG ? This turns those S1,S2 in a kind of bottleneck for system-\n >security.", "\nThis is stupid. Won't it cost more to those companies hoping to \nserve the gov't and private markets if they DON'T use the same\ntechnology?\n", "\nDear Senator/Congressman/President {fill in the blank}\n\nI am writing you to voice my strong opposition to President Clinton's Clipper \nChip initiative. This proposal to establish a secret government designed\ncryptography chip with government key registration as the standard for voice\nencryption is very disturbing. The idea that citizens must register their \nsecrets with the government just in case they are trying to keep them secret \nis patently unAmerican. Additionally, the press release for this program\nstrongly implied that other forms of cryptography would be banned after the \nClipper Chip standard is in place. This latest attack on our civil rights is \ndeeply disturbing and is frankly a voting issue for me. \n\nThe presidents press release stated that the plan strikes a balance between the\nlegitimate needs of law enforcement and a citizens right to privacy but this \nis not the case. The fact is that since other strong cryptographic equipment \nis avalible the criminals, drug dealers and terrorists mentioned in the press \nrelease will simply use non clipper cryptography. Meanwhile the average citizen\nmay gain no protection against warentless wiretaps by the government since the \ngovernment escrowed key is derived deterministicly from the unit serial number\nwhich is broadcast by the chip durring its opperation. This seems like an \nobvious back door for the NSA and law enforcement. If you still do nott \nunderstand my objection to key registration, consider the way J. Edgar Hoover \nblackmailed government officials like yourself; would you now use a phone to \ntransmit personal details of your life that the NSA and FBI have the keys to?\n\n\n______________________________________________________________________________\nWell heres a letter, I didnt spell check it since I dont know how in EMACS\nso you might want to do that. ", "\n\nThe description of the chip's operation evidently leaves out some of the\nkey management aspects. Either the K_P is the secret key corresponding\nto a public key which is broadcast at message initiation, or it is the\nresult of a Diffie-Hellman key exchange or something similar. Either\nway there must be some protocols beyond those described here. It isn't\nclear whether they are implemented in the Clipper wiretap chip or must\nbe provided by other system components.", "Whoa. What did you say your name was? Address, SSN? Smoking foods, eh?\nI think the gov't would like to know about this...", "Hmm, followup on my own posting... Well, who cares.\n\nFirst let me try to work out the facts that we get to know about the\nClipper-Chip, from what Hellman and Denning were able to tell us:\n\nThe chip itself is not confined to (digital) telephony, but performs\ngeneral encryption in a symmetric manner. The chip supports CFB OFB\nECB (and whatever the fourth mode of operation for DES is), the algorithm\nconsists of 32 rounds of *whatever*, and takes 80-Bit keys. Input data\nseems to be 64 Bit? Yes.\nSo if two people want secure communication (whatever that means when \nClipper is involved) they have first to agree on ONE secret key. \n(Or is it one key per direction ?)\nThey can exchange this key via DH-schemes or however.\nSomehow the two feed their so won secret key into the Clipper-chip\nwhich is now ready to work.\nThe clipper chip carries an unique Serial-Number (30 Bit's), and 160 Key-Bits.\nThese 160 key-bits seem to have been gained by encrypting the serial-number\nwith 160 seed-bits. (The seed-bits seem not to be stored in the chip)\nAt beginning of communication (and perhaps at certain invtervals whithin??)\nbefore sending the fist real 64-bit output of the first encryption the Clipper\nchip put's out packets (I guess 3) which represent the serial number,\nand the session key. This might look like\nX{ E[K; chipkeyK1+K2], serial number}\nwhere X is a transformation of these 3? Packets involving a family-key.\nThis family(sp?)-key is equal for ALL chips. (X might be a simple XOR ???)\nAfter that, the (digital?) phone-call can be done as usual, every packet\nbeing encrypted and decrypted by Clipper.\n\nDenning describes how K1 and K2 shall be generated, using a seed of 160\nBit's.\n\nNow, leaving alone politics, which does not concern me as much as you, not\nbeing an American Citicien(tm) [ :-) ] , there are some weak points in this\nscheme, which might be exploited by several parties.\n\nAs far as I know about the generation of K1,K2 ; S1 and S2 look like the \nobvious backdoor. They could be used to generate the chip-keys by knowing\nthe serial-number (and also the family-key) of the chip. I really can't\nimagine why these seeds would be needed otherwise, as true random-sources\nfor the generation of the K1,K2 can be bought for not to much money.\n\nThen, the escrows. Each of them will get 80 bit of a 160-Bit key. Security\ncould (as little as existant) be maximized by giving them 160-bits\neach, which have to be xored together to give the K1,K2. Now let's simply\nassume the escrows are trustworthy, and can't be fooled by criminals or\nlaw enforchemnt agencies. (And there will be no quarrel between escrows\nand l.e.a which would hinder the l.e.a in doing their duties, and so on\nand so on) Once the keys are surrendered, the corresponding\nchip is compromised forever. Not very clever, IMHO [ :-)) ].\nHow about sending in the encrypted session-keys for each phone-call that\nthe police (or whoever) want's to listen to? Escrows could then simply decode\nthis session-key and send it back to police. (And would naturally not do this\nafter the warrant has expired...) This would be a better technical solution,\nbut I guess politics will not work that way.\n\nApparently (as Miss Dennings stated) the only one performing actually decodes\nof intercepted messages shall be the FBI. Great. So local guys can not inter-\ncept (understand) your traffic anymore. Does this mean that the FBI monopolizes\nthe right to do legal wiretaps ? (How is law over there, I have no idea who\nis allowed to tap, and who not) This certainly means that watched communi-\ncations will be routed automatically from the service-providing company\nto the FBI, if the communicaiton is a watched one. And this means as far\nas I understand it that the family-key has to be known by each switching-\ncompany, and those providing cellular-phone servies etcetc. So the family-key\nwill not be very secret, and thus serial-numbers of calls will be readable\nby anybody who cares. I _like_ traffic-analysis!\n\nWhat do you guess, what happens, if you use the chip in ECB mode, and the\nfirst few packets of the chip are somehow lost or garbled? So the session\nkey would not be actually broadcasted over the line? Hmmm. Shouldn't be so\ndifficult to do *that* :^)\n\nAnd now a last point, for the other side. After all I have read and heard about\nClipper (not the programming language for dBase, is it ? [:-)]) it seems\nto have many advantages, which shold not be overseen!\n\n\nNow an afterthought to your rights. Please note that I have no idea what I am\ntalking about!!!\n\nFrom: grady@netcom.com (1016/2EF221)\n\nIf this text is actually in your Bill of Rights, who can overrule this ?\nBut: 'Freedom of speech' is not 'Secrecy of speech'\n\nMaybe you need to extend your Amendment #4 to cover information and\ncommunication too ?\n\nI am not very sure in what position your government actually is *legally*\nwhen it tries to ban cryptography (and arms) Amendment say you may have them,\nbut not under what conditions. Hmm, tricky situation :-(\n\nActually it will make not much sense to discuss that topic in sci.crypt...\nDiscussion of technical details and vulnerabilites of the system are highly\nsuggested and appreciated :-)\n\nFriendly greetings,\n\n\tGermano Caronni\n\n\nDISCLAIMER: Everything in here is derived from things I heard and read from\nother persons, so everything could be wrong. All opinions and thoughts in here\nare mine, and subject to change without further notification. No warranty,\nneither implicit not explicit etc. etc. etc. ad nauseam.\n\np.s. Please don't ask me about political opinions, as I might not bother to re-\n ply. (For further information read the last line of P. Metzgers signature)", "\n\n\nActually the govrnment is telling you that if you want to use their\n\"product\" the manufacturer (actually better yet, some \"trusted\" pair\nof escrow agencies) has to have the key.\n\nMost of us already are in this situation--our car makers have keys to our\ncars (or can get them quickly from the VIN number), and I have no doubt\nthat if presented with a court order, they'd surrender copies to the\ngovernment.\n\nChances are that many locksmiths have the code numbers for house locks\nthey've installed, and in an emergency can cut keys; thus they'd also\nprovide such keys to the government pursuant to a court order.\n\nThe state has no difficulty gaining access to your safe deposit box if they\nhave a court order.\n\nBad analogy.\n\nThis is not to argue for or against the proposal, but rather better\ndistinctions are required in thinking about it than \"house key, safe-deposit\nkeys, etc.\".\n\nDavid", "\n\nIf you've got a secure device, you don't need public keys.\n\nIf the secret key which all chips share is SK, you can just use KP = \nE{(myname, yourname, date) ; SK}.\n\nMaybe that's why Jim Bidzos was reported as being cheesed off.", ": From: brad@optilink.COM (Brad Yearwood)\n\n: Assume in this case the usual canard-adversary of narcotraficantes. They\n: probably have more cash than the KGB did, and they're probably more generous\n: at handing it out. It will be easier than ever to find or cultivate Walkers\n: and Pollards for the keys, and it will be easy enough to find someone to\n: reverse-engineer the chip (unless the tamper proofing is damned clever and\n: effective).\n\nIf the administration *really* believes big-time drug dealers are the threat\n(personally I thought it was the CIA and the air force that did all the real\ndrug shipping :-) ) then they *ought* to take this seriously: unlike the\nKGB, drug dealers can make a most convincing argument for cooperation: \"help\nus and we'll be nice and give you some money, don't help us and we'll start\ncutting off your favourite body parts\"\n\nAfter all, it was probably an argument like that that persuaded Jack Ruby to\nshoot Oswald in full view of the police. Life in jail probably seems much\nmore preferable to most people than several weeks of something nasty\nfollowed by no life at all...", "\nI presume you are just going to use IDEA for the session encryption and\ntransmit the session key with RSA?\n\nDavid R. Conrad\t\t\"No his mind is not for rent/To any god or government\"", "\n\n\nas someone who just lived through a switch from SunOS4.x.x. to\nSolaris, i'll heartily agree with this. \n\nObCrypt: one of my main gripes with Solaris is its braindead mailx,\nwhich is -almost- enough like mail to get you hoping, but crashes\nhorribly when you try to do anything useful with it. (like use pgp-\ncapable sendmail replacements.)\n\njason\n", "At the risk of getting lost in the clipper chip discussion I give a \nsummary on my recent question:\n\n\nUnfortunately the answer is no - concealing the initialisation vector \nessentially doesn't give any additional security. I got 3 answers (from \ngrady@netcom.com, Mark.Lomas@cl.cam.ac.uk, smb@research.att.com) that \nopened my eyes. It's pretty simple:\n\nSay E is encryption (and D decryption) with key K on 64-bit blocks.\n\nLet c[0] be the initialisation vector,\nm[1], m[2], ... the message blocks,\nc[1], c[2], ... the cipher text blocks.\n\nThen encryption in cipher block chaining (CBC) mode works by the formula\n\n c[i] = E(m[i] XOR c[i-1]),\n\nand decryption by\n\n m[i] = c[i-1] XOR D(c[i]).\n\nSo if the attacker doesn't have c[0] this only affects the first message \nblock m[1]. But she can do her key search attack on m[2], m[3], ...\n\nThe situation in cipher feedback (CFB) mode is a bit more complicated but \nsimilar and left as an exercise for the reader :-)\n\nFinally there is the modified output feedback mode (OFB) where DES (or \nwhatever block cipher you use) simply acts as random generator by\n\n s[i] = E(s[i-1]) with initialisation vector (= seed) s[0],\n\nand encryption is given by\n\n c[i] = m[i] XOR s[i].\n\nHere the usual `known plaintext' attack against XOR-bitstream ciphers \nreduces the cracking to key search for K.\n", ":Judge: \"I grant you immunity from whatever may be learned from the key\n:\titself\"\n:You: \"The keyphrase is: \"I confess to deliberately evading copyright; \n:\tthe file encoded with this keyphrase contains illegal scans of \n: copyrighted Peanuts strips.\"\"\n:Judge and CP: \"Oh.\"\n: How will they get you now? I'm not saying that they won't, or\n:can't (or even that they shouldn't :-), but what legal mechanism will\n:they use? Should we be crossposting this to misc.legal?\n\nHm, could another court try you via a bypass of the double jeopardy amendment\nlike they are doing in the LAPD trial? Ie your judge is a state judge, and\nthen a federal judge retries you under the justification that its not the\nsame trail.\n", "\n\n\n\nWe might get further if we begin by accepting that the government \nreally couldn't be bothered less about the political opinions of the \nright wing pro establishment types. Just about the only circumstances \nin which I could think that they would be interested in their political \nviews would be to recruit them as spooks. They can be guaranteed to give\nthe government line when it counts. In US history it has been the \nsocialists such as myself who have been persecuted. \n\n\nNow before people start asserting that there is no mechanism by which\nthe administration can get their new chip adopted without legal force\nlets try thinking.\n\nIn the first place the clipper chip must have existed for several years as\na defense project. Therefore this is not a party matter at all. George Bush\nwas in any case hardly adverse to tapping calls, he was chief spook \nremember.\n\nSecondly the govt can quite easily apply pressure. They simply \"ask\" their\nchums who they give huge defense contracts to (motorola etc) to be \"nice\"\nboys. After all Bill is giving them a nice little trade monopoly since the\nchips won't be avaliable to foreign firms.\n\nThirdly the people who consider the Democrats to be socialist are not the\nsame as the ones who consider socialists to be communist. People might know\nthis if the US education system did not suffer from the Mcarthyite and \nDewy version of political correctness - the sort with tribunals and show \ntrials. Ever seen Ed Meese pissed? I have, it was when he said that socialism\nand communism were the same thing and brought the house down with laughter.\nIt took several minutes before we realised that he was serious.\n\n\nPhill Hallam-Baker", "\nThere's always the old switcheroo.\n\nMy brother works at a dialysis clinic. They were interviewing \ncandidates for a technician job (mainly electronics tech), and a\nurine screen was part of the interview. The bathroom was across\nthe hall from a lab. One candidate managed to switch his urine\nsample with one he grabbed from the lab. (No one was in it at\nthe time.)", "\nAnd anybody who can get the keys from the escrow company. This is a\ndatabase that's going to take plenty of updating - they think they can\nkeep it secure? Please... and that's just primary, not secondary\nsources, such as police using the key under a warrant. Would anyone\nbe surprised if they just \"neglected\" to erase the key if it turned\nout they couldn't nail you on anything?", "\n The classic comment on new encryption algorithms comes from\nFriedman:\n\n\t\"No new cypher is worth considering unless it comes \n\tfrom someone who has already broken a very hard one.\"\n\nHistorically, Friedman has been right. It's really hard to develop\na good cypher. IBM's Lucifer, the precursor to DES, turns out to have\nbeen fatally flawed. Most of the DES-like systems other than DES seem\nto be vulnerable to differential cryptanalysis. The first two tries at\npublic key encryption (remember knapsack cyphers?) were broken. Most\nif not all of the machine cyphers of the electromechanical era were\nbroken eventually. Attempts in the computer era to home-brew encryption\nhave been disappointing; the classic \"A survey of data insecurity packages\"\nin Cryptologia contains analyses and breaking techniques for a few of the\npopular \"security packages\" of the late 1980s.\n\n A new, proprietary algorithm? No way.\n\n If the US is permitting general export of this thing, it has\nto be weak; that's how the current regulations work. Currently there's\na willingness to allow systems with short keys (32 bits appears to be\nno problem; the 56 bits of DES are too many) or weak algorithms\n(I think Word Perfect qualifies under that rule) to be exported.\nI can't believe these guys shepherded their technique through the \nPTO and the State Department's Arms Control Division without finding that out.\n\n\t\t\t\t\tJohn Nagle", "\n[...]>\n[...]>\n\nIf the data isn't there when the warrant comes, you effectively have\nsecure crypto. If secret backups are kept...then you effectively have\nno crypto. Thus, this poster is essentialy arguing no crypto is better\nthan secure crypto.\n\nIf the data isn't there when the warrant comes, then the government will\njust have to use normal law enforcement techniques to catch crooks. Is\nthis so bad? BTW, bugging isn't YET a normal law enforcement technique.\nWith the privacy clipper, it WILL become a normal technique.\n/Jim", "\n\n\nMy interpretation of Denning's description is that S1 and S2 are chosen\nrandomly by agents of the key escrow companies at the start of each 300-\nchip programming session. I imagine that the chips are in a carrier which\nwill allow them all to be programmed fairly quickly - there would not be\na need to transfer chips one at a time into a little PLA programmer as some\npeople have envisioned.\n\nMy guess as to why this procedure is used is that basing the keys on the\nS1 and S2 using a specified algorithm provides an (in-principle) checkable\nway to verify that no back doors exist in the choice of the random numbers\nused to generate the keys. Since we have to trust the escrow companies\nanyway, it does not weaken the system to have the keys be generated from\nrandom seeds entered by the escrow agents. And since the algorithm for\nkey-generation is public (modulo Skipjack secrecy) then in principle an\nagent could challenge the procedure, ask for S1 and S2 to be exposed, and\nrun his own independent calculation of U1 and U2 to verify that that is\nwhat is actually being put onto the floppies.\n\nAnd yes, there are many ways in which failures to follow this scheme could\nbe hard to check. The laptop probably will not really be destroyed each\ntime. Hidden cameras in the ceiling could see the S1 and S2 entered by\nthe trusted escrow agents. Back doors in the chip could allow U to be\nrecovered. Heck, each chip could be recorded with the same U, ignoring\nwhat was on the floppy.", "\n\nAs usual, David Sternlight is demonstrating his inability to read. The\nproposal clearly states:\n\n=> The initiative will involve the creation of new products to\n=> accelerate the development and use of advanced and secure\n=> telecommunications networks and wireless communications links.\n\nIt speaks about telecommunications in general. Read it again, David.\nMaybe you'll understand it the next time... Nah, probably not.\n\n\nThat's exactly what the government wants all sheep-minded people to\nthink. Let's look at the current situation. It allows to almost\nanybody to eavesdrop almost everybody, unless secure (and I mean\nsecure) encryption is used. What will happen when (\"if\"? Ha!\noptimists...) the new proposal gets accepted? Almost nobody EXCEPT\nSOME will be able to eavesdrop everybody else, but the ability of\nthese \"some\" to eavesdrop will be guaranteed! The proposal emphasizes\non the former (\"almost nobody\") - which is clearly an improvement -\nand \"forgets\" to mention the drawbacks of the latter (\"guaranteed\").\nYes, my statement assumes that the next step will be to make the\nstrong crypto unlawful. You think that it will not happen? Good luck.\n\n\nIt's not just \"continued ability\". It's -guaranteed- ability.\n\n\nYeah, that's exactly what your government wants you to think. Let's\ntake small steps, one at a time. Concentrate on the current one, don't\nthink about the future. Trust us.\n\n\nIt's not asked because the proposal clearly says that this is the\nintention. They, unlike you, read what they write.\n\n\nYes, it will. It will stop the jerk who is eavesdropping now. It will\nallow only to the government to eavesdrop. (If the scheme is secure,\nof course, which is yet to be proven.) But how do you know that the\njerk you are fearing now will not get a government job tomorrow? The\nnew proposal -guarantees- him the ability to eavesdrop then. Hell,\nthat will even motivate him to get that job - if he indeed is that\nmentally pervert...\n\n\nGreat. The Greatest Cryptographer of All Times David Sternlight (tm)\nhas succeeded to evaluate the new system in the absense of any\ndetails whatsoever and has concluded that it is \"highly secure\". I\nguess, that comes from the background of working some 50 years for the\ntwo major crypto evaluating companies, right? Gee, now the government\ncan save all that money and trouble to ask a secret council of crypto\nexperts to secretly analyse the new secret method - for David\nSternlight has already done all the job for them...\n\n\n\"Trust us, we're from the Government and we're here to help you.\"\n\n\n\"Those who are prepared to trade their liberties for the promises of\nfuture safety, do not deserve either.\" This (or something like that; I\ndon't have the exact quote, but the meaning is the same) has been said\nby one of your great men. Maybe you should study their works more\ncarefully, if you have the brains to understand them, of course.\n\n\nThe main question is to guarantee to availability of -really- secure\ncryptography to the masses. Gee, if the proposal was saying \"we\nguarantee that every American will still have the full right to use\nany kind of encryption s/he would like and regard this proposal as\njust a default, voluntary implementation\", there would have been much\nless opposition... For some reason, they didn't even try to promise\nyou that. I wonder why... Was Orwell off only by 10 years?\n\n\nNo, in return you get crypto that is guaranteed to be crippled.\n\n\nWhile the above is just rumors, and while even if it is true, it is\nnot done -easily-, the new scheme can is guaranteed to be easily\nbreakable by anybody who has the two keys. It might be also breakable\nby somebody who does not have them but knows the right trick. Or who\nhas only one of them. NSA also told you that DES is secure, why don't\nyou simply trust them, huh?\n\n\nIt is -guaranteed- to be -easily- breakable - just get the keys. It\nmight be even easier, but until there is some evidence, this is just a\nwild speculation.\n\n\nThe trapdoors -are- there. In government's hands. The keys.\n\n\nLegitimate? And who decides what communications are legitimate? Oh, I\nguess, it's the government, right? The guys who already have the keys?\nIt's kinda if I have the keys from your car and I am asked to decide\nwho has the right to use it \"legitimately\"...\n\n\nImpossible, since you are demonstrating the same level of incompetence\nand ignorance as in the provious threads.\n\n\nUnfortunately, I have yet to see you posting a technically competent\nmessage.\n\nRegards,\nVesselin", "\nThose rules/regulations/laws would be subject to the same attack: that\nthey are attempting to preempt federal authority to regulate (or not)\nradio communications. Of course, as the original poster noted, court\nchallenges of this kind can get expensive.", "The clipper chip's User key is formed by:\n \n R1 = E[D[E[N1;S1];S2];S1]\n R2 = E[D[E[N2;S1];S2];S1]\n R3 = E[D[E[N3;S1];S2];S1]\n \n Why is the triple-encrytion used? Is it just to gain an effective\nincrease in keyspace to defeat a potential keysearch? (If so, why use\n80 bit keys?) Not knowing anything about the Skipjack algorithm, it's\nnot really possible to guess whether this makes it harder or easier to\nguess S1,S2.\n \n Why are N1, N2, and N3 formed as they are? It would be facinating to\nsee the Skipjack algorithm, to look for ways of attacking it that require\nthree ciphertext blocks formed in that odd way.\n \n Where do the 34-bit constant values that are concatenated with the\nserial number to form N1,N2,N3 come from? Are they changed from chip to\nchip, or session to session? (Even if they're published in the NY Times,\nif SkipJack is resistant to known-plaintext attacks, when using triple-\nencryption, then there's no break in security. But why allow that kind\nof weird format? If those three 34-bit values are truly-random bits, then\nmaybe it's used to ensure that a known-plaintext attack on SkipJack, if\nit exists, can't be easily used to derive S1 and S2 for a whole production\nrun of these chips....)\n \n Does Dorothy Denning read this group? If not, is someone on the group\nforwarding questions like these to her, or Martin Hellman, or anyone else\nwho's seen more details about the chip?", "\n From: amanda@intercon.com (Amanda Walker)\n\n > Oh great. Wonderful news. Nobody can listen in--except the feds. \n\n Hey, it's better than the status quo.\n\n I am far less worried about \"the feds\" tapping my phone than high school \n scanner surfers who get their kicks out of eavesdropping on cellular and \n cordless phone calls.\n\nI'm a political dissident. I'm scared shitless of the feds listening\nin on my calls. My opinions are the sort that would get me\n\"disappeared\" in a slightly less free society -- and who knows what\nsort of society we will be in in five or ten years? I have friends who\nhave had their phones tapped -- none of this is theoretical to me.\n\nAs for \"its better than the status quo\", well, first of all, you can\nget a cryptophone from companies like Cylink today -- and they work\nwell. In addition, a number of groups are now working on building\nsoftware to turn any PC into a privacy enhanced phone right now -- and\nthey are all working in overdrive mode.\n\n And yes, I'd rather just see all crypto restrictions lifted, but this is at \n least an incrememental improvement for certain applications...\n\nThere ARE no crypto restrictions... yet. You can use anything you want\nRIGHT NOW. The point is to maintain that right.\n\n--\nPerry Metzger\t\tpmetzger@shearson.com", "Clipper might be a good way to cover the use of another layer of\nencryption.\n\nCurrently, when you send an encrypted message, an opponent can usually\ntell 1) that you are using encryption 2) which encryption method you\nare using [because that information is usually in the clear].\n\nWith clipper, most opponents will only know that you are sending\nclipper-text, they won't know that your clipper-text is itself\nencoded.\n\nOnly those few opponents who get your clipper-keys will know\nthat your message is double encrypted.\n\n... kind of like a safety deposit box containing a lock box.\n\nSo, don't just think of replacements for clipper, also think of front\nends.\n\n- Carl\n\n\n", " >> conference calls?\n >It's not Clipper, it's any encryption system. I've seen a number of\n >designs; they generally involve a multi-line cleartext bridge.\n\n\t A 'multi-line cleartext bridge?\"\n\t\t\t ^^^^^^^^^\n\t And just were would you put that bridge? If it isn't at one of\n the receiptants location, forget encryption at all. You have blown any\n security you thought you might have had. \n\nMost of the people using encrypted conference bridges these days are\nmilitary (or equivalent, like CIA and other embassy personnel),\nso putting bridges on the recipient's location is normal -\nit's in a vault on a military base or Ft. Meade, and the\nsecure phones are in sound-proof rooms with big locks on the doors\nbecause they're talking about Classified Stuff (or Golf with Other Generals.)\n\nThat paradigm will change as we start using encrypted phones in our\noffices or homes to carry on normal conversations about dinner plans\nand stock purchases and meeting schedules and technical info\nand the good batch of illegal frop that we got last weekend from Bob;\nmost people don't use sound-proof vaults, and may use bridges in their\nPBX or from the local phone company (3-way calls) or Long Distance\nor value-added phone company (e.g. Alliance conference bridges).\n\nIf Clipjack is mainly used for the radio portion of cellular phones,\nthe conferencing aspects don't change. But there may be a market niche for\ntrusted conference-bridge providers, though I suppose the inquisitors\nwould try to get a blanket wiretap authorization for many bridges,\njust in case a Bad Guy might use the service.", "Can you help me to understand how a CardPhone operates and \nhow the values are stored on the phonecard..", "It might pay to start looking at what this proposal might mean to a\npolice agency. It just might be a bad idea for them, too.\n\nOK, suppose the NY State Police want to tap a suspect's phone. They\nneed a warrant, just like the old days. But unlike the old days, they\nnow need to \n\n (a) get two federal agencies to give them the two parts of\n the key.\n\nNow, what happens if there's a tiff between the two escrow houses?\nPosession/release of keys becomes a political bargaining chit. State\nand lower-level police agencies have to watch the big boys play politics,\nwhile potentially good leads disappear, lives and property are lost,\nstatutes of limitations run out, etc. Not to mention: a moderately\nclever person who suspects the police are after her/him will be buying\nnew phones faster than tap requests can be processed. Or using stolen\nones. [Will the Turing Police come and arrest you for transmitting\nwithout a dialing license?]\n\nThere's also bureacracy and security problems -- within each escrow house, \nhow will requests for key disclosure be authenticated? Put in enough\nsafeguards of the kind bureaucrats and activists feel comfortable with, and \nit might take a LONG time to get that key. [Even when a request is approved, \nhow is the key going to be disclosed? Will it be encrypted by a Clipper-type\nchip for transmission? In a bureaucracy the size of the Federal\nGovernment, with a databank of the necessary size, and data traffic of\nthe projected volume, there's going to be a lot of weak links. How many of \nthese kinds of problems will be open for public or \"expert\" scrutiny?] \n\nFurthermore, the Feds might be leery of handing completed keys around, \neven to State Police agencies: a trust and security issue. This would be \nan especially acute issue if some other State's Police had mishandled a \nkey, resulting in lawsuits, financial settlements, and political \nembarassment. So, the Feds implement it this way:\n \n (b) some federal agency gets the keys, performs the tap, and\n turns the results over to the NY State Police.\n\nBut let's say Cuomo's been causing some problems over a Clinton\nAid-To-Urban-Areas proposal. Or there just happens to be a turf war\ngoing on between the State cops and the Justice department on a case.\nNow, not only do we have the keys as a political chit, we have an\nextra player in the game *and* we have the tap's tapes as another\nbargaining chit. Again, the State Police lose.\n\nI understand that (legal) wiretaps are quite expensive to maintain. In\nscenario (b), who pays the bill?", "Secrecy in Clipper Chip\n\nThe serial number of the clipper chip is encrypted with the system key and\ntransmitted as one part of a three part message.\n\nPresumably the protocol can be recovered (if by nothing else, differential\nanalysis).\n\nPostulate if you will, a chip (or logic) sitting between the clipper chip\nand its communications channel. The purpose of this chip is twofold:\n \n\t1) Transmit Channel\n\n\t The spoof chip XORs the 30 bit encrypted serial number with\n\t a secondary keying variable. This renders the serial number\n\t unrecoverable with just the system key\n\n\t2) Recieve Channel\n\n\t The spoof chip XORs the incoming encrypted serial number\n\t with a secondary keying variable (assuming the serial number\n\t is necessary for local operation).\n\nThis has the net result of hiding the serial number. This gets more\ninteresting when the number of serial numbers issued becomes large,\nmaking it difficult to distinguish between valid serial numbers and\na spoofed serial number. Without knowing the system key, you could\nlie about the serial number, but risk detection of the lie.\n\nIF you had the system key and the encryption algorithm you could\nsuccessfully lie with a lower probability of detection by emulating the\nformat of your own serial number.", " The NSA's charter forbids them from doing any purely domestic\nintelligence work, I would think that even providing assistance in\ndevelopment of the Skipjack algorithom is a violation of that charter. \nBut as with any intrenched government agency, they will do what they\nthink is expedent.\n", " Is it realistic for the government to try to keep the details\nof the encrytion algorithm secret if it intends to use evidence from\nwiretaps in court? Won't defense attorneys attempt to obtain the\ndetails of the method if the prosecution attempts to present evidence\nfrom wiretaps in court? Is it certain that such attempts will fail?\n James B. Shearer\n", "From: res@colnet.cmhnet.org (Rob Stampfli)\n\n\t>separate locations to gain credibility. If they are seized and you are\n\t>compelled to decrypt it, you simply explain that you are an amateur\n\t>cryptologist playing around with one time pads, and that the first\n\t>file is the pad for the second. They XOR the two files, and sure\n\t>enough, out pops a copy of \"War and Peace\".\n\n\tSo, judging from recent history, at this point they drop the original\n\tcharges, preemptively find you guilty of copyright violations, and seize\n\tyour computer, your home, and your financial reserves under federal\n\tforfeiture laws.\n\nAh no - what *really* happens is that they turn up at the court with\n*another* file which when exored with your document gives up the famous\nE911 document :-) [And I tell you, some judges would fall for it...]", "\n\n Simple -- if you have a choice between:\n\n 1. American manufacturers peddling Cripple Chips with a secret untested\n algorithm whose keys are held by people with a history of untrustworthy\n behavoir, or\n\n 2. Japanese (to pick the obvious example) manufacturers peddling encryption\n chips with an algorithm that has faced public scrutiny and keys under\n the control of the user,", " I am aware of the restrictions imposed by the munitions act\n on the export of cryptographic technology, however, is it illegal to\n transmit encrypted data from the U.S. to another country? If so,\n then which laws apply to this situation?\n\nFrom the US law perspective, unless you're engaging in illegal speech,\nit's not illegal to use encryption. Yet. The NSA is allowed to try\nto listen, but you're not obligated to make it easy for them. Yet.\nThe other country may have more repressive laws about that;\nI gather France's bureaucracy wants to know what you're saying, \nand in the old Soviet Union, they didn't need laws to make things illegal :-(\n\n(paranoia follows, for those of you who want to play it safe :-)\nThe fact that the NSA is listening may affect your willingness to use\nwimpy crypto technologies, but it may also affect your willingness to\nuse technologies that violate RSA's patents, e.g. if you use PGP, the\nNSA may tell RSA that you're doing so, and if the Secret Service catches on,\nthey may decide that the mere fact that RSA hasn't filed a lawsuit\nagainst you doesn't mean that you don't deserve to have your computer\nconfiscated for possible patent violation, munitions law violation,\nespionage, money laundering, drug importation, and creatin' a disturbance,\nand then not give it back because you *did* violate the patent even\nthough they had to drop all the other charges, unlike that nasty Steve\nJackson who had the gall not to be guilty of *anything*.", "\nYou're blowing smoke. Qualcomm wants to sell to nice, lucrative overseas\nmarkets like Japan and the EC. The government told them \"don't do encryption\nif you ever hope to export this technology\". The reason that CDMA doesn't\nhave encryption is NOT because the G-men came a'knocking at Qualcomm's door.\nIt's because Qualcomm doesn't think that the US market for digital cellular\nis big enough for them. This is just the International Traffic in Arms\nRegulations all over again.\n\nIf you don't believe me, call Qualcomm and ASK THEM. Don't just throw\nout conspicracy theories. At least, don't do it on sci.crypt--there are\nwhole other newsgroups devoted to this kind of uninformed claptrap.\n\n\nHah. They're not that much more expensive. Besides, if a drug dealer\ncan afford a Rolex and a Mercedes, he can darn well afford Cylink phones.\nNo, Cylink sells their phones because they're willing to make different\nstuff for domestic use vs. export. Qualcomm isn't. So Cylink makes\nmoney--that's capitalism, comrade.\n\n\n\"Someone\" this and \"someone\" that. If you think it's so easy, why are\nyou whining on the net instead of getting your butt in gear and writing\nit? Your name would become known and loved by dozens! But no, that would\nrequire actual EFFORT.", "From: brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton)\n\n\tLet's assume, for the moment, that the system really is secure unless\n\tyou get both halves of the encryption key from the two independent\n\tescrow houses. Let's say you even trust the escrow houses -- one is\n\tthe ACLU and the other is the EFF. (And I'm not entirely joking about\n\tthose two names)\n\nI'm really not entirely sure I trust EFF any more to be honest.\n\nAnyway, any organisation can be deeply infiltrated. Look at CND in Britain\na dozen years ago - one of their top members was an SIS spy who stole their\ncomplete address list. How hard would it be to get one person to sneak in\nand copy the escrow data to disk?", "Okay, let's suppose that the NSA/NIST/Mykotronix Registered\nKey system becomes standard and I'm able to buy such a system\nfrom my local radio shack. Every phone comes with a built in\nchip and the government has the key to every phone call. \nI go and buy a phone and dutifully register the key. \n\nWhat's to prevent me from swapping phones with a friend or \nbuying a used phone at a garage sale? Whooa. The secret registered\nkeys just became unsynchronized. When the government comes \nto listen in, they only receive gobbledly-gook because the \nsecret key registered under my name isn't the right one. \n\nThat leads me to conjecture that:\n\n1) The system isn't that secure. There are just two master keys\nthat work for all the phones in the country. The part about\nregistering your keys is just bogus. \n\nor \n\n2) The system is vulnerable to simple phone swapping attacks\nlike this. Criminals will quickly figure this out and go to\ntown.", " Here's a simple way to convert the Clipper proposal to an unexceptionable\n one: Make it voluntary.\n\n That is--you get high quality secure NSA classified technology if you agree\n to escrow your key. Otherwise you are on your own.\n\nThat's the disturbing part - use of other products IS voluntary, for now,\nand the press releases talk about the White House's unwillingness to\ndecide that citizens have a right to good commercial crypto gear,\nand about how commercial alternatives will be permitted as long as\nthey provide key escrow services. That's a clear implication that\nthey're considering banning alternatives.\n\nAdditionally, use of real alternatives ISN'T totally legal -\nyou're not allowed to export really good crypto equipment except to\nthe government's friends (e.g. the Australian government)\nyou can only export even BAD crypto equipment with their permission,\nand the regulators who control the cellular telephone companies make\nsure there are only two competitors, so Joe's Garage Cellular can't\nstart offering a secure service. ", "It looks like Dorothy Denning's wrong-headed ideas have gotten to the\nAdministration even sooner than we feared. It's time to make sure they\nhear the other side of the story, and hear it loudly!\n\nPhil\n\n\n\n------- Forwarded Message\n\nSubject: text of White House announcement and Q&As on clipper chip encryption\n\nNote: This file will also be available via anonymous file\ntransfer from csrc.ncsl.nist.gov in directory /pub/nistnews and\nvia the NIST Computer Security BBS at 301-948-5717.\n ---------------------------------------------------\n\n THE WHITE HOUSE\n\n Office of the Press Secretary\n\n_________________________________________________________________\n\nFor Immediate Release April 16, 1993\n\n\n STATEMENT BY THE PRESS SECRETARY\n\n\nThe President today announced a new initiative that will bring\nthe Federal Government together with industry in a voluntary\nprogram to improve the security and privacy of telephone\ncommunications while meeting the legitimate needs of law\nenforcement.\n\nThe initiative will involve the creation of new products to\naccelerate the development and use of advanced and secure\ntelecommunications networks and wireless communications links.\n\nFor too long there has been little or no dialogue between our\nprivate sector and the law enforcement community to resolve the\ntension between economic vitality and the real challenges of\nprotecting Americans. Rather than use technology to accommodate\nthe sometimes competing interests of economic growth, privacy and\nlaw enforcement, previous policies have pitted government against\nindustry and the rights of privacy against law enforcement.\n\nSophisticated encryption technology has been used for years to\nprotect electronic funds transfer. It is now being used to\nprotect electronic mail and computer files. While encryption\ntechnology can help Americans protect business secrets and the\nunauthorized release of personal information, it also can be used\nby terrorists, drug dealers, and other criminals.\n\nA state-of-the-art microcircuit called the \"Clipper Chip\" has\nbeen developed by government engineers. The chip represents a\nnew approach to encryption technology. It can be used in new,\nrelatively inexpensive encryption devices that can be attached to\nan ordinary telephone. It scrambles telephone communications\nusing an encryption algorithm that is more powerful than many in\ncommercial use today.\n\nThis new technology will help companies protect proprietary\ninformation, protect the privacy of personal phone conversations\nand prevent unauthorized release of data transmitted\nelectronically. At the same time this technology preserves the\nability of federal, state and local law enforcement agencies to\nintercept lawfully the phone conversations of criminals. \n\nA \"key-escrow\" system will be established to ensure that the\n\"Clipper Chip\" is used to protect the privacy of law-abiding\nAmericans. Each device containing the chip will have two unique\n\n\n 2\n\n\n\"keys,\" numbers that will be needed by authorized government\nagencies to decode messages encoded by the device. When the\ndevice is manufactured, the two keys will be deposited separately\nin two \"key-escrow\" data bases that will be established by the\nAttorney General. Access to these keys will be limited to\ngovernment officials with legal authorization to conduct a\nwiretap.\n\nThe \"Clipper Chip\" technology provides law enforcement with no\nnew authorities to access the content of the private\nconversations of Americans.\n\nTo demonstrate the effectiveness of this new technology, the\nAttorney General will soon purchase several thousand of the new\ndevices. In addition, respected experts from outside the\ngovernment will be offered access to the confidential details of\nthe algorithm to assess its capabilities and publicly report\ntheir findings.\n\nThe chip is an important step in addressing the problem of\nencryption's dual-edge sword: encryption helps to protect the\nprivacy of individuals and industry, but it also can shield\ncriminals and terrorists. We need the \"Clipper Chip\" and other\napproaches that can both provide law-abiding citizens with access\nto the encryption they need and prevent criminals from using it\nto hide their illegal activities. In order to assess technology\ntrends and explore new approaches (like the key-escrow system),\nthe President has directed government agencies to develop a\ncomprehensive policy on encryption that accommodates:\n\n -- the privacy of our citizens, including the need to\n employ voice or data encryption for business purposes;\n\n -- the ability of authorized officials to access telephone\n calls and data, under proper court or other legal\n order, when necessary to protect our citizens;\n\n -- the effective and timely use of the most modern\n technology to build the National Information\n Infrastructure needed to promote economic growth and\n the competitiveness of American industry in the global\n marketplace; and \n\n -- the need of U.S. companies to manufacture and export\n high technology products.\n\nThe President has directed early and frequent consultations with\naffected industries, the Congress and groups that advocate the\nprivacy rights of individuals as policy options are developed.\n\n\n\n 3\n\nThe Administration is committed to working with the private\nsector to spur the development of a National Information\nInfrastructure which will use new telecommunications and computer\ntechnologies to give Americans unprecedented access to\ninformation. This infrastructure of high-speed networks\n(\"information superhighways\") will transmit video, images, HDTV\nprogramming, and huge data files as easily as today's telephone\nsystem transmits voice.\n\nSince encryption technology will play an increasingly important\nrole in that infrastructure, the Federal Government must act\nquickly to develop consistent, comprehensive policies regarding\nits use. The Administration is committed to policies that\nprotect all Americans' right to privacy while also protecting\nthem from those who break the law.\n\nFurther information is provided in an accompanying fact sheet. \nThe provisions of the President's directive to acquire the new\nencryption technology are also available. \n\nFor additional details, call Mat Heyman, National Institute of\nStandards and Technology, (301) 975-2758.\n\n- - ---------------------------------\n\n\nQUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ABOUT THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION'S\nTELECOMMUNICATIONS INITIATIVE\n\n\n\n\nQ: Does this approach expand the authority of government\n agencies to listen in on phone conversations?\n\nA: No. \"Clipper Chip\" technology provides law enforcement with\n no new authorities to access the content of the private\n conversations of Americans.\n\nQ: Suppose a law enforcement agency is conducting a wiretap on\n a drug smuggling ring and intercepts a conversation\n encrypted using the device. What would they have to do to\n decipher the message?\n\nA: They would have to obtain legal authorization, normally a\n court order, to do the wiretap in the first place. They\n would then present documentation of this authorization to\n the two entities responsible for safeguarding the keys and\n obtain the keys for the device being used by the drug\n smugglers. The key is split into two parts, which are\n stored separately in order to ensure the security of the key\n escrow system.\n\nQ: Who will run the key-escrow data banks?\n\nA: The two key-escrow data banks will be run by two independent\n entities. At this point, the Department of Justice and the\n Administration have yet to determine which agencies will\n oversee the key-escrow data banks.\n\nQ: How strong is the security in the device? How can I be sure\n how strong the security is? \n\nA: This system is more secure than many other voice encryption\n systems readily available today. While the algorithm will\n remain classified to protect the security of the key escrow\n system, we are willing to invite an independent panel of\n cryptography experts to evaluate the algorithm to assure all\n potential users that there are no unrecognized\n vulnerabilities.\n\nQ: Whose decision was it to propose this product?\n\nA: The National Security Council, the Justice Department, the\n Commerce Department, and other key agencies were involved in\n this decision. This approach has been endorsed by the\n President, the Vice President, and appropriate Cabinet\n officials.\n\nQ: Who was consulted? The Congress? Industry?\n\nA: We have on-going discussions with Congress and industry on\n encryption issues, and expect those discussions to intensify\n as we carry out our review of encryption policy. We have\n briefed members of Congress and industry leaders on the\n decisions related to this initiative.\n\nQ: Will the government provide the hardware to manufacturers?\n\nA: The government designed and developed the key access\n encryption microcircuits, but it is not providing the\n microcircuits to product manufacturers. Product\n manufacturers can acquire the microcircuits from the chip\n manufacturer that produces them.\n\nQ: Who provides the \"Clipper Chip\"?\n\nA: Mykotronx programs it at their facility in Torrance,\n California, and will sell the chip to encryption device\n manufacturers. The programming function could be licensed\n to other vendors in the future.\n\nQ: How do I buy one of these encryption devices? \n\nA: We expect several manufacturers to consider incorporating\n the \"Clipper Chip\" into their devices.\n \nQ: If the Administration were unable to find a technological\n solution like the one proposed, would the Administration be\n willing to use legal remedies to restrict access to more\n powerful encryption devices?\n\nA: This is a fundamental policy question which will be\n considered during the broad policy review. The key escrow\n mechanism will provide Americans with an encryption product\n that is more secure, more convenient, and less expensive\n than others readily available today, but it is just one\n piece of what must be the comprehensive approach to\n encryption technology, which the Administration is\n developing.\n\n The Administration is not saying, \"since encryption\n threatens the public safety and effective law enforcement,\n we will prohibit it outright\" (as some countries have\n effectively done); nor is the U.S. saying that \"every\n American, as a matter of right, is entitled to an\n unbreakable commercial encryption product.\" There is a\n false \"tension\" created in the assessment that this issue is\n an \"either-or\" proposition. Rather, both concerns can be,\n and in fact are, harmoniously balanced through a reasoned,\n balanced approach such as is proposed with the \"Clipper\n Chip\" and similar encryption techniques.\n\nQ: What does this decision indicate about how the Clinton\n Administration's policy toward encryption will differ from\n that of the Bush Administration? \n\nA: It indicates that we understand the importance of encryption\n technology in telecommunications and computing and are\n committed to working with industry and public-interest\n groups to find innovative ways to protect Americans'\n privacy, help businesses to compete, and ensure that law\n enforcement agencies have the tools they need to fight crime\n and terrorism.\n\nQ: Will the devices be exportable? Will other devices that use\n the government hardware?", " \n I don't doubt that this will be the attitude of many corporate leaders.\nIt's understandable--most corporate execs don't know much about cryptology,\nand it's easy to get taken in by someone peddling snake oil. And, the\nproposed scheme *is* a major improvement in telephone security to what\nexists now.\n \n The problem is that, with any security scheme of this kind, you have to\nconcern yourself with the weakest link in the chain. I suspect that NSA\nhas put a fairly strong encryption algorithm in this wiretap chip of theirs,\nprobably at least as strong as (say) DES in OFB-mode. Unfortunately, the\nexistence of the key-registry system seems to make possible all kinds of\npossible attacks at a small fraction of the expense of trying to build (say)\na DES keysearch machine.\n \n As originally described, it sounded like any police / court combination\ncould acquire the key for a given chip. I hope that's not the case, since\nit would imply a glaring hole. (How much does it cost to find *one* crooked\njodge and *one* crooked cop? Especially for a foreign intelligence agency\nor organized crime boss?) However, even if more intelligent schemes are used\nto allow access to the unencrypted phone conversations, there will be weak-\nnesses. They may be very expensive, and very difficult. But who would\ntrust his/her confidential information to an encryption scheme that, for\n(say) $100,000 could by cracked one time in a hundred? (DES, for all the\ncomplaints about a 56-bit key, would probably cost several million dollars\nto build a keysearch machine for.)\n \n How many million dollars would the confidential phone messages of\nthe GM headquarters be worth to Nissan, Chrysler, or Audi? How about\nhome phones of major execs and important engineers and designers?\n\"Gee, Mr Jones, I understand you've had some financial problems lately.\nMaybe I can help...\"\n \n \n Indeed, if NSA really designed the algorithm to be secure, it's very likely\nas secure as IDEA or 2-key DES. However, the system as a whole isn't resistant\nto \"practical cryptanalysis.\" In _The Puzzle Palace_, Bamford describes how\nseveral NSA employees were turned by foreign (presumably KGB) agents, despite\nsecurity measures that I doubt any Big 8 accounting firm could match. And\nNSA confidential data was *not* subject to being requested by thousands of\npolice organizations and courts across the land.", "I received a fax of a letter from Representative Markey (Subcommittee on \nTelecommunications and Finance) to Ron Brown (Secretary of Commerce). Since \nencryption and the Clipper chip are raised in this letter, I felt it would be\nof interest. I understand that on 29 April, Mr. Markey will be holding a\nhearing on the questions raised in this letter. There may also be a follow-on\nhearing dedicated to the clipper chip, but that's not definite.\n\nI've typed in the letter, which follows. Any errors in transcription are \nmine...\n\n---\nGlenn Tenney\ntenney@netcom.com Amateur radio: AA6ER\nVoice: (415) 574-3420 Fax: (415) 574-0546\n\n------------------ letter of interest follows ----------------\n\nApril 19, 1993\n\nThe Honorable Ronald H. Brown\nSecretary\nDepartment of Commerce\n14th and Pennsylvania Ave., NW\nWashington, DC 20236\n\nDear Secretary Brown:\n\n As you know, I have long been interested in the privacy \nand security of telecommunications transmissions and data in \na networked environment. Recent reports concerning the \nAdministration's endorsement of an electronic encryption \nstandard, based upon \"clipper chip\" technology, have raised a \nnumber of related issues. The international competitiveness \nof U.S. high tech manufacturers and the software industry is \na key factor that the government should consider when \naddressing issues of encryption and data security. As the \nnation moves forward in developing the national \ncommunications and information infrastructure, security of \ntelecommunications transmissions and network data will be an \nincreasingly important factor for protecting the privacy of \nusers.\n\n The \"hacker\" community can compromise the integrity of \ntelecommunications transmissions and databases linked by the \nnetwork. The people and businesses that use the nation's \ntelecommunications network and the personal computers linked \nthrough it increasingly are demanding that information be \nprotected against unauthorized access, alteration, and theft.\n\n I am concerned that the Administration's plan may mean \nthat to remain competitive internationally, U.S. companies \nwould be compelled to develop two products -- one for U.S. \ngovernment customers, and another for private, commercial \nusers who may want a higher encryption standard. This may \ninadvertently increase costs to those U.S. companies hoping \nto serve both markets. To assist the Subcommittee's analysis \nof this issue, please respond to the following questions:\n\n1. Has the encryption algorithm or standard endorsed by the \nAdministration been tested by any entity other than NSA, NIST \nor the vendor? If so, please identify such entities and the \nnature of testing performed. If not, please describe any \nplans to have the algorithm tested by outside experts and how \nsuch experts will be chosen.\n\n2. Under the Administration's plan, what entities will be the \nholders of the \"keys\" to decrypt scrambled data? What \nprocedures or criteria will the Administration utilize to \ndesignate such key holders?\n\n3. Does the encryption algorithm endorsed by the \nAdministration contain a \"trap door\" or \"back door,\" which \ncould allow an agency or entity of the Federal government to \ncrack the code?\n\n4. It is clear that over time, changes in technologies used \nfor communications will require new techniques and additional \nequipment. How will encryption devices adapt to the rapid \nadvancement of telecommunications technology?\n\n5. What additional costs would the proposed encryption place \non the Federal government? What is the estimated cost to \nconsumers and businesses which opt for the federal standard \nin their equipment?\n\n6. What is the Commerce Department's assessment of the \ncompetitive impact of the Administration's endorsement of the \n\"clipper chip\" technology on U.S. exports of computer and \ntelecommunications hardware and software products?\n\n I would appreciate your response by no later than close-\nof-business, Wednesday, April 28, 1993. If you have any \nquestions, please have your staff contact Colin Crowell or \nKaren Colannino of the Subcommittee staff at (202) 226-2424.\n\nSincerely,\n\nEdward J. Markey\nChairman\n\n###", " OK, I should have read the thread before posting my own $0.02. I would\njust add to Phil's very infomative discussion the following caveat: the\nfifth amendment applies ONLY in crinial cases. (\"...nor shall any person .\n. . be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself...\").\nThus if the father sued for custody of the children, the case would be\ncivil and the defendant mother would not have fifth amendment protection.\nOddly enough, her refusal to give information in a civil case can lead to\ncriminal contempt charges (thus landing her in jail.) The interesting part\nof all this is that in a murder trial, the woman CAN plead the fifth as \nto the location of the child--this is routine. A \"computer crime\" \nprosecution thus would seem to be fertile ground for this kind of defense, \nwhere a suit by a party injured by \"hackers\" would not. If I am accused, \nfor example, of sending encrypted kiddie porn over the nets the fifth should \nprotect my key. If I am accused of sending copyrighted material, however,\nit proabably will not (copyright infringement not being a \"crime\" in the\ntechnical sense.) The REALLY tricky question is, say I do both (naughty\nboy that I am) can the government use the information gained in the civil\ntrial (ie. my key) to gain access to my files for use in the criminal\nprosecution. The answer should certainly be no, but lord only knows how\nthis would work out.\n\nSteve.\n \n", "\n\nThe IRS doesn't need to rely on the Federal Marshall's Services; the\nIRS has its own Swat teams. I saw a picture of one in an article on\nthe IRS in some magazine or other.\n-- \nDave Feustel N9MYI ", "\nRight. People here believe the government is listening in on\neverything. Sure. If you can't provide an answer, change the\nassumptions to something you can deal with.\n\nIt's not a matter of the government listening on on everything, it's a\nmatter of the government listening on anyone they take an interest in.\nSay, if you do something heinous like attend a computer meeting at a\nmall, the Secret Service decides to go for a warrantless search, and\nacquires your name. It's a matter of any number of possible wiretap\nabuses that cryptology makes far less likely, and this chip can\nsabotage. \n\nPar for the course, though. I predicted that you'd be jumping in in\nfavor of this. The reply was that you'd justify anything up to and\nincluding death camps as long as the government backed them and had a\nwritten policy statement. Perhaps a little extreme, but not much.", "May as well look at one piece of this at a time. This paragraph:\n\n\nmeans they aren't planning to make it public, as was done with DES. As it\nsays in both sci.crypt FAQs, there's no way we are going to achieve the\nsame level of comfort with Clipper that we finally have with DES if we\ncan't actually get our hands on the bits and watch them flow around. Even\nthe best experts aren't going to think of everything: look how long it\ntook Biham and Shamir to get a handle on just how good DES is... and for\nall we know there's still more to learn.", "It should be noted that the US benefitted not only from German science and\ntechnology after WW2 but also from British science and technology. From the\ndiscovery and manufacture of penicillin to jet engines, swing wing aircraft,\nthe hovercraft etc etc. all were shipped lock-stick-and-barel across the\nAtlantic. We still are suffering from this sort of thing because of some of the\nmore parochial aspects of US procurement policy. Meiko, a British \nparallel computer company, for example, has now moved most of its facilities to\nthe US since that was the only way it could sell stuff over there.\n ", " > > :has 2^80 possible keys.\n > >\n > > We don't yet know if all 80 bits count.\n >\n > That doesn't worry me at all; they're not going to cheat at something\n >they can get caught at. And key size is one of the things that can be\n >verified externally. Feed lots of random key/input pairs into the\n >chip, then see what happens to the output....", "May I suggest that any any proposed cipher system\nhaving less entropy than the user's key and message can have\nan embedded subliminal channel as big as the\ndifference in entropies between the entropy of the user\ninput (message) and the entropy of the output?\n\nFor example, take plain DES. The unsuspecting\nuser inputs a string \"PLAINTEXT\" to be enciphered.\n\nHe cranks the algorithm which has been hacked\nby George Quisling and comes out with j*3H4902d.\n\nNine char in and nine chars out. Right?\n\nThe unsepecting user ships the ciphertext\nto be decrpyted and the message \"PLAINTEXT\"\nis produced. Everything fine, right? Nope.\n\n\nImagine the algorithm did a LZ compression\non PLAINTEXT before DESing. (Compressing is\ndown to four characters with more entropy:\n\n9#wj\n\nThe opponent now pads the message with his\nown message, also compressed\n\n*3dk@\n\nbefore applying DES to the concatenated\ncompressed pairs. When decrpyted, the\nfirst compressed message is stripped off\nand declared sent. Unbeknowst to the\nreceiver, the opponents accomplice collects\nthe remaining message in the bit bucket and\nuncompresses to KILL NOW.\n\nAnd to prevent all such subliminal or covert\nstorage channels you would need to have \nmaximal entropy all the time -- which is\na priori impossible because (for example)\na stereotypical message might be\nreplaced by one bit in the output reserving\nthe rest of the output bits for the long\ncovert message.\n\nIn other words, if you opponent get to muck\nwith the algorithm -- you either have got to\nmuck with it LAST or concede his possible \nembedding of covert channels.\n\nIn other words, if you present a message\nto an opponet with less than maximal entropy\nthen you have given him free bits of storage.\n", "\n\nThe patents don't apply in Canada. I think the free trade agreement may\nprovide for recognition of new patents, but not old ones.\n\n", "Q: Who was consulted? The Congress? Industry?\n\nA: We have on-going discussions with Congress and industry on\n encryption issues, and expect those discussions to intensify\n as we carry out our review of encryption policy. We have\n briefed members of Congress and industry leaders on the\n decisions related to this initiative.\n\nCongress?? So we're playing politics before we talk to CPSR, academia,\nthe public, internet users? I`ve heard of top-down design, but top-down \ndemocracy?? [Just whose state/district are the chip manufacturers in?]\n\nQ: If the Administration were unable to find a technological\n solution like the one proposed, would the Administration be\n willing to use legal remedies to restrict access to more\n powerful encryption devices?\n\nA: This is a fundamental policy question which will be\n considered during the broad policy review. [...bs about\n the wonderfulness of the key escrow system...]\n\n The Administration is not saying, \"since encryption\n threatens the public safety and effective law enforcement,\n we will prohibit it outright\" (as some countries have\n effectively done); \n\nThey'll just provide an easily-compromised version to JQ Public.\n\n nor is the U.S. saying that \"every\n American, as a matter of right, is entitled to an\n unbreakable commercial encryption product.\" \n\nMaybe we need a CRA -- Cryptographic Rights Amendment.\n\n There is a\n false \"tension\" created in the assessment that this issue is\n an \"either-or\" proposition. Rather, both concerns can be,\n and in fact are, harmoniously balanced through a reasoned,\n balanced approach such as is proposed with the \"Clipper\n Chip\" and similar encryption techniques.\n\nNice lullaby. But why am I not soothed?\n\n----------------\nAlso, \n\n\nWhy repeat themselves? It appears to some (and the story looks pretty\nconvincing to me, too) that the Justice Department stole a case-tracking\nsystem, modified it, and distributed it to \"friendly\" police and suchlike\nagencies around the world, eg. the Canadian Mounties. Of course, I have \nno doubt they swore Scout's Honor that there were no backdoors.\n\nWith that kind of intelligence, who'd want to be swamped with terabytes\nof commercial traffic?", "The M code stream might be independently attacked based on knowledge of\nclipper chip protocols as revealed plaintext. This could be invalidated\nby changing the temporal and or spatial relationship of the clipper M stream\nand the actual transmitted stream, under the control of a secure key\ngenerator synchronized between endpoints.\n\nThe useful life time of captured law enforcement blocks might be limited\nbased on hostile forces using them as targets following transmission\ninterception. You would need a large number of them, but, hey there's\nsupposed to be millions of these things, right? Adding time stamps to\nthe encrypted law enforcement block is probably impractical, who wants\nan encryption chip with a real time clock?\n\n*****************************************************************************\n\nThe entire idea of the law enforcement block can be invalidated.\n\nI just had the thought, that you could capture your own law enforcement blocks\nfor session keys K that you will not use in actual transmissions as\nthe session key authenticators. The proviso that you don't mind your own\nserial number being discovered.\n\nd. denning just sent out further information of a new version of the clipper\nchip.\tIf a hash function were to be embedded in a clipper M transmission\nblock reflecting the law enforcement block, it better not fall on 64 bit block\nboundaries. If it were a recognizeable datum, you could lie with it too.\n\nI like the randomizer inclusion in the MYK-80. I remember reading that\nIntel had an approved random noise source on silicon, hence the ability\nto put it Inside.", "\n\n\nImagine if this were available during the 1992 elections; instead of\nclumsily searching through the Clinton passport file, they could have \njust done a \"voice-grep\" (as someone stated earlier) on his telephone\nconversations for the last 10 years.\n\nI'm not a lawyer and I don't even play one on TV, but intuitively there's\nsomething wrong with having one's words archived for possible future\nuse against you. This possibility frightens me more than any of the\ntalk about the Clipper Chip, right to cryptography, etc.\n\n\nI'm afraid it just might.\n\n-nhy\n\n-- ", ": From: shirriff@sprite.berkeley.edu (Ken Shirriff)\n: Message-ID: <1r24us$oeh@agate.berkeley.edu>\n: It seems likely to me that that a large subset of encrypted communications\n: would be archived to tape so they could be read if sometime in the future\n: probable cause arises and a warrant is obtained.\n\nI think it is unlikely that data like this could be used in court.\nCurrently LEAs can install wiretaps on large numbers of phones, record\ncalls without listening to them, and then post-facto obtain warrants\nand listen to calls after probable cause is established. But this\nstrategy wouldn't get the stuff admitted in court. (At least, not\nin the near term.)\n\nIn other words, near as I can tell, the thing that makes such evidence\ninadmissable is the interception without a warrant, not the attempt to\ninterpret what was intercepted without a warrant. I'd be surprised\nthat archiving data without consent would be interpreted as anything\nbut analogous to a wiretap by the courts.\n\nNote that that doesn't mean I think it won't be done if technically\nfeasible. Just as I'm sure many wiretaps are done now without\nwarrants, just to fish for avenues to investigate. So in the future,\nstart surveilance, start archiving data, trump up some probable cause,\ndecrypt post-facto after the warrant is in hand, and the investigation\ngets a boost from data that, sadly, won't ever be presented to a jury.\n\nWhile I'm posting... for an interesting cautionary tale projecting this\narchiving scenario to extremes, read \"Lacey and his Friends\", a\ncollection of sf stories by David Drake. The US starts down the\nslippery slope by archiving *everyghing*. But don't worry folks, it's\nstored in a secure repository where nobody but LEAs with warrants can\nget to it. And by the way, we'll be installing cameras on all major\nstreets. Hey, this is nothing new, we already have cameras in banks and\nteller machines, don't we?\n\nAnd then we'll pass laws requiring cameras covering *all* public\nplaces. Then in some private places. Then we'll make it a crime ever\nto be out of range of a camera, except in legally licensed privacy\ncubicles. Only alone. And with a thorough body search before and\nafter. But, see, there's still a right to privacy. We haven't\ncurtailed any rights, not really. And just think how much easier it'd\nbe to solve crimes in such a situation: just obtain a warrant, put on a\nVR helmet and take a walk down memory lane.\n\nAnd hey, nobody'll be tracking *you* or *me*, no need to be self-conscious.\n\nAfter all, if you're not doing anything illegal...\n\nFunny, though. While speeding and the radar detector industry became\npretty much a thing of the past, somehow all this didn't elminate all\ncrime in the story. And somehow, politicians got exemptions on grounds\nof national security, and rich corporations got exemptions for their\nexecs on grounds of industrial espionage and the preservation of\ncompetition. And not everybody was exactly happy with the system. \nI can't imagine why.\n", "\nIt is also widely stated (in non-mainstream sources) that the CIA had a\nlarge part in the overthrow of the popular (and popularly-elected)\nleft-leaning Premier Mossadegh in 1953. Is this widely recognized outside\nthe U.S.? (I have never seen it mentioned at all in mainstream U.S.\nmedia.) How about within Iran?", "\nOh great. Wonderful news. Nobody can listen in--except the feds. You\nbelieve that the feds offer the least threat to liberty of anyone, and I'm\nsure I do too.\n\nGlad that jerk won't be tapping my phone anymore.\n-- \n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nJohn Hesse | A man, \njhesse@netcom.com | a plan, \nMoss Beach, Calif | a canal, Bob.", "This announcement is somewhat disconcerting; it doesn't do anything\nevil in and of itself, but bodes badly for the future of open\nalgorithms and standards in information security. I won't start\npanicking until/unless DES or RSA or stuff like that is prohibited, but\nI'm a little anxious. (No doubt it won't be long before someone posts\nexplaining how this just a small part of some far-ranging and\nlong-lived NSA-PKP-IRS-FBI-CIA-HandgunControlInc-Clinton conspiracy to\nsubvert freedom, democracy, and mathematics.) My feeling is that the\nadministration probably isn't that worried about things like DES and\nRSA and PGP and RIPEM, since they'll never be used by a group much\nwider than us computer geeks.\n\nThe fact that this just came out now suggests one of two things:\n\n1. The NSA has been working on this for a long time, and it only just\n now happened to be ``ready'' to release to the world at this time.\n\n2. The NSA has been working on this for a long time, but wasn't able\n to get the Bush administration to go along with this plan. (I\n find it unlikely that this would have been because of a sympathy\n for the unescrowed use of cryptography; more likely the\n administration felt that even escrowed, secret-algorithm and, for\n all we know, trivially breakable cryptography should not be made\n widely available.)\n\nThus said clipper@csrc.ncsl.nist.gov (Clipper Chip Announcement):\n\nThe majority of the discussion involving this \"Clipper Chip\" seems to\npertain to the encryption of telephone conversations. Does anyone\nknow if that means this chip is designed to work primarily with analog\nsignals? The language sort of suggests this, but it's hard to say.\n\nThe main thing I just don't get is whether this chip implements\nsymmetric or asymmetric cryptographic techniques. Anybody know?\n\nI'm guessing symmetric, but they don't get very clear about it. If it\nis symmetric, how is it useful for anything other than link-level\nencryption with an identical chip at each end? How can you negotiate\na per-session key using symmetric cryptography without using a trusted\nthird party who knows your key? (Or does it even use a per-session\nkey?)\n\nIf it's asymmetric, what about PKP's patents, which they claim cover\nall methods of doing asymmetric cryptography? Are they getting\nroyalties, or is hiding infringement the real reason for keeping the\nalgorithm secret? :-)", "-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----\n\n\n[...]\n[...]\n\n\n\nAs far as I can see, no matter how the session keys are generated (be it\nDiffie-Hellman or whatever), any Cripple conversation which travels in\nwhole or in part over a land-line is vulnerable to this scheme. Law-\nenforcement agencies can do it legally at the telco, or illegally by finding\nsome part of the phone line that they can cut into. The degree of risk\ndepends very much on location - not good in the middle of a busy street,\nbut not bad on a line in open country (leading to a drug lord's ranch). The\nonly way to defeat it would be if your phone had the equivalent of a public\nkey indexed against phone number for every phone you might want to call (all\nof them) - totally impractical, even if some part of the Cripple algorithm\ncould be used as a kind of public key (I don't understand enough about these\nthings to know).\n\nThis sort of encryption scheme is only really workable over a radio link,\nand even then you could probably interevene without causing problems for\nother phones nearby if you were physically close to the target phone.\n\nGosh, yet another way to get round Cripple encryption. How many is that\nwe've found so far? And that's without even knowing the details of the\nalgorithm.\n\n- --Paul\n\n-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----\nVersion: 2.2", "\nNo thanks. This topic is of interest to a much wider audience.\n\n\n\"In making this decision, I intend to prevent the private sector from\ndeveloping, except with the government's approval, other microcircuits\nor algorithms that are more effective in assuring privacy.\"", "\nOne more time...\n\n If they released the algorithm, it would be possible for someone\n to come up with an implementation which was identical, but\n lacking an escrowed key.\n\n Note that the press announcement mentioned that the algorithm was\n being kept secret for security of the key escrow system. In this\n case security means \"an escrowed key for EVERY clipper chip\".\n\n\n Assuming you believed all that is said about the effective of\n the algorithm, and the escrow system, which would you buy :\n\n (a) Chip from firm A with the escrowed key\n (b) Second source chip from reputable firm B with no key\n in government escrow.", "What is the status of cruptology for private citizens throughout the\nworld? or, more clearly, is there a listing of countries and their\npolicies on citizens encrypting electronic data? \n\nI'm curious how the Europeans handle this, for instance.", "I think it very unlikely there are back doors in clipper, for two reasons:\n\n1. The government doesn't need them if it can get the key (and yes, I assume\nthat the \"official\" government obeys court orders, etc.--and that the design\nof the chip and its approval were \"official\");\n\n2. It would defeat the whole purpose of providing secure crypto for American\nbusiness that couldn't be read by our economic adversaries. If this were not\na legitimate and genuine purpose, and as many think, the NSA can read DES,\nwhy bother otherwise?\n\nRational responses preferred to conspiracy theories, thanks.\n\nDavid", "-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----\n\nPlease note that the following speech was made by Chuck Hammill\nin 1987. Address all letters to his address, given at the end\nof this document.\n -- Russell\n\n FROM CROSSBOWS TO CRYPTOGRAPHY: THWARTING THE STATE VIA\n TECHNOLOGY\n\n Given at the Future of Freedom Conference, November 1987\n\n\n You know, technology--and particularly computer\ntechnology--has often gotten a bad rap in Libertarian cir-\ncles. We tend to think of Orwell's 1984, or Terry Gilliam's\nBrazil, or the proximity detectors keeping East Berlin's\nslave/citizens on their own side of the border, or the so-\nphisticated bugging devices Nixon used to harass those on\nhis \"enemies list.\" Or, we recognize that for the price of\na ticket on the Concorde we can fly at twice the speed of\nsound, but only if we first walk thru a magnetometer run by\na government policeman, and permit him to paw thru our be-\nlongings if it beeps.\n\n But I think that mind-set is a mistake. Before there\nwere cattle prods, governments tortured their prisoners with\nclubs and rubber hoses. Before there were lasers for\neavesdropping, governments used binoculars and lip-readers.\nThough government certainly uses technology to oppress, the\nevil lies not in the tools but in the wielder of the tools.\n\n In fact, technology represents one of the most promis-\ning avenues available for re-capturing our freedoms from\nthose who have stolen them. By its very nature, it favors\nthe bright (who can put it to use) over the dull (who can-\nnot). It favors the adaptable (who are quick to see the\nmerit of the new (over the sluggish (who cling to time-\ntested ways). And what two better words are there to de-\nscribe government bureaucracy than \"dull\" and \"sluggish\"?\n\n One of the clearest, classic triumphs of technology\nover tyranny I see is the invention of the man-portable\ncrossbow. With it, an untrained peasant could now reliably\nand lethally engage a target out to fifty meters--even if\nthat target were a mounted, chain-mailed knight. (Unlike\nthe longbow, which, admittedly was more powerful, and could\nget off more shots per unit time, the crossbow required no\nformal training to utilize. Whereas the longbow required\nelaborate visual, tactile and kinesthetic coordination to\nachieve any degree of accuracy, the wielder of a crossbow\ncould simply put the weapon to his shoulder, sight along the\narrow itself, and be reasonably assured of hitting his tar-\nget.)\n\n Moreover, since just about the only mounted knights\nlikely to visit your average peasant would be government\nsoldiers and tax collectors, the utility of the device was\nplain: With it, the common rabble could defend themselves\nnot only against one another, but against their governmental\nmasters. It was the medieval equivalent of the armor-\npiercing bullet, and, consequently, kings and priests (the\nmedieval equivalent of a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and\nCrossbows) threatened death and excommunication, respec-\ntively, for its unlawful possession.\n\n Looking at later developments, we see how technology\nlike the firearm--particularly the repeating rifle and the\nhandgun, later followed by the Gatling gun and more advanced\nmachine guns--radically altered the balance of interpersonal\nand inter-group power. Not without reason was the Colt .45\ncalled \"the equalizer.\" A frail dance-hall hostess with one\nin her possession was now fully able to protect herself\nagainst the brawniest roughneck in any saloon. Advertise-\nments for the period also reflect the merchandising of the\nrepeating cartridge rifle by declaring that \"a man on\nhorseback, armed with one of these rifles, simply cannot be\ncaptured.\" And, as long as his captors were relying upon\nflintlocks or single-shot rifles, the quote is doubtless a\ntrue one.\n\n Updating now to the present, the public-key cipher\n(with a personal computer to run it) represents an equiv-\nalent quantum leap--in a defensive weapon. Not only can\nsuch a technique be used to protect sensitive data in one's\nown possession, but it can also permit two strangers to ex-\nchange information over an insecure communications\nchannel--a wiretapped phone line, for example, or\nskywriting, for that matter)--without ever having previously\nmet to exchange cipher keys. With a thousand-dollar com-\nputer, you can create a cipher that a multi-megabuck CRAY\nX-MP can't crack in a year. Within a few years, it should\nbe economically feasible to similarly encrypt voice communi-\ncations; soon after that, full-color digitized video images.\nTechnology will not only have made wiretapping obsolete, it\nwill have totally demolished government's control over in-\nformation transfer.\n\n I'd like to take just a moment to sketch the mathemat-\nics which makes this principle possible. This algorithm is\ncalled the RSA algorithm, after Rivest, Shamir, and Adleman\nwho jointly created it. Its security derives from the fact\nthat, if a very large number is the product of two very\nlarge primes, then it is extremely difficult to obtain the\ntwo prime factors from analysis of their product. \"Ex-\ntremely\" in the sense that if primes p and q have 100\ndigits apiece, then their 200-digit product cannot in gen-\neral be factored in less than 100 years by the most powerful\ncomputer now in existence.\n\n The \"public\" part of the key consists of (1) the prod-\nuct pq of the two large primes p and q, and (2) one fac-\ntor, call it x , of the product xy where xy = {(p-1) *\n(q-1) + 1}. The \"private\" part of the key consists of the\nother factor y.\n\n Each block of the text to be encrypted is first turned\ninto an integer--either by using ASCII, or even a simple\nA=01, B=02, C=03, ... , Z=26 representation. This integer\nis then raised to the power x (modulo pq) and the resulting\ninteger is then sent as the encrypted message. The receiver\ndecrypts by taking this integer to the (secret) power y\n(modulo pq). It can be shown that this process will always\nyield the original number started with.\n\n What makes this a groundbreaking development, and why\nit is called \"public-key\" cryptography,\" is that I can\nopenly publish the product pq and the number x , while\nkeeping secret the number y --so that anyone can send me\nan encrypted message, namely\n x\n a (mod pq) ,\nbut only I can recover the original message a , by taking\nwhat they send, raising it to the power y and taking the\nresult (mod pq). The risky step (meeting to exchange cipher\nkeys) has been eliminated. So people who may not even trust\neach other enough to want to meet, may still reliably ex-\nchange encrypted messages--each party having selected and\ndisseminated his own pq and his x , while maintaining\nthe secrecy of his own y.\n\n Another benefit of this scheme is the notion of a \"dig-\nital signature,\" to enable one to authenticate the source of\na given message. Normally, if I want to send you a message,\nI raise my plaintext a to your x and take the result (mod\nyour pq) and send that.\n\n However, if in my message, I take the plaintext a and\nraise it to my (secret) power y , take the result (mod my\npq), then raise that result to your x (mod your pq) and\nsend this, then even after you have normally \"decrypted\" the\nmessage, it will still look like garbage. However, if you\nthen raise it to my public power x , and take the result\n(mod my public pq ), so you will not only recover the ori-\nginal plaintext message, but you will know that no one but I\ncould have sent it to you (since no one else knows my secret\ny).\n\n And these are the very concerns by the way that are to-\nday tormenting the Soviet Union about the whole question of\npersonal computers. On the one hand, they recognize that\nAmerican schoolchildren are right now growing up with com-\nputers as commonplace as sliderules used to be--more so, in\nfact, because there are things computers can do which will\ninterest (and instruct) 3- and 4-year-olds. And it is pre-\ncisely these students who one generation hence will be going\nhead-to-head against their Soviet counterparts. For the\nSoviets to hold back might be a suicidal as continuing to\nteach swordsmanship while your adversaries are learning\nballistics. On the other hand, whatever else a personal\ncomputer may be, it is also an exquisitely efficient copying\nmachine--a floppy disk will hold upwards of 50,000 words of\ntext, and can be copied in a couple of minutes. If this\nweren't threatening enough, the computer that performs the\ncopy can also encrypt the data in a fashion that is all but\nunbreakable. Remember that in Soviet society publicly ac-\ncessible Xerox machines are unknown. (The relatively few\ncopying machines in existence are controlled more inten-\nsively than machine guns are in the United States.)\n\n Now the \"conservative\" position is that we should not\nsell these computers to the Soviets, because they could use\nthem in weapons systems. The \"liberal\" position is that we\nshould sell them, in the interests of mutual trade and\ncooperation--and anyway, if we don't make the sale, there\nwill certainly be some other nation willing to.\n\n For my part, I'm ready to suggest that the Libertarian\nposition should be to give them to the Soviets for free, and\nif necessary, make them take them . . . and if that doesn't\nwork load up an SR-71 Blackbird and air drop them over\nMoscow in the middle of the night. Paid for by private sub-\nscription, of course, not taxation . . . I confess that this\nis not a position that has gained much support among members\nof the conventional left-right political spectrum, but, af-\nter all, in the words of one of Illuminatus's characters, we\nare political non-Euclideans: The shortest distance to a\nparticular goal may not look anything like what most people\nwould consider a \"straight line.\" Taking a long enough\nworld-view, it is arguable that breaking the Soviet govern-\nment monopoly on information transfer could better lead to\nthe enfeeblement and, indeed, to the ultimate dissolution of\nthe Soviet empire than would the production of another dozen\nmissiles aimed at Moscow.\n\n But there's the rub: A \"long enough\" world view does\nsuggest that the evil, the oppressive, the coercive and the\nsimply stupid will \"get what they deserve,\" but what's not\nimmediately clear is how the rest of us can escape being\nkilled, enslaved, or pauperized in the process.\n\n When the liberals and other collectivists began to at-\ntack freedom, they possessed a reasonably stable, healthy,\nfunctioning economy, and almost unlimited time to proceed to\nhamstring and dismantle it. A policy of political\ngradualism was at least conceivable. But now, we have\npatchwork crazy-quilt economy held together by baling wire\nand spit. The state not only taxes us to \"feed the poor\"\nwhile also inducing farmers to slaughter milk cows and drive\nup food prices--it then simultaneously turns around and sub-\nsidizes research into agricultural chemicals designed to in-\ncrease yields of milk from the cows left alive. Or witness\nthe fact that a decline in the price of oil is considered as\npotentially frightening as a comparable increase a few years\nago. When the price went up, we were told, the economy\nrisked collapse for for want of energy. The price increase\nwas called the \"moral equivalent of war\" and the Feds swung\ninto action. For the first time in American history, the\nspeed at which you drive your car to work in the morning be-\ncame an issue of Federal concern. Now, when the price of\noil drops, again we risk problems, this time because Ameri-\ncan oil companies and Third World basket-case nations who\nsell oil may not be able to ever pay their debts to our\ngrossly over-extended banks. The suggested panacea is that\ngovernment should now re-raise the oil prices that OPEC has\nlowered, via a new oil tax. Since the government is seeking\nto raise oil prices to about the same extent as OPEC did,\nwhat can we call this except the \"moral equivalent of civil\nwar--the government against its own people?\"\n\n And, classically, in international trade, can you imag-\nine any entity in the world except a government going to\ncourt claiming that a vendor was selling it goods too\ncheaply and demanding not only that that naughty vendor be\ncompelled by the court to raise its prices, but also that it\nbe punished for the act of lowering them in the first place?\n\n So while the statists could afford to take a couple of\nhundred years to trash our economy and our liberties--we\ncertainly cannot count on having an equivalent period of\nstability in which to reclaim them. I contend that there\nexists almost a \"black hole\" effect in the evolution of\nnation-states just as in the evolution of stars. Once free-\ndom contracts beyond a certain minimum extent, the state\nwarps the fabric of the political continuum about itself to\nthe degree that subsequent re-emergence of freedom becomes\nall but impossible. A good illustration of this can be seen\nin the area of so-called \"welfare\" payments. When those who\nsup at the public trough outnumber (and thus outvote) those\nwhose taxes must replenish the trough, then what possible\nchoice has a democracy but to perpetuate and expand the tak-\ning from the few for the unearned benefit of the many? Go\ndown to the nearest \"welfare\" office, find just two people\non the dole . . . and recognize that between them they form\na voting bloc that can forever outvote you on the question\nof who owns your life--and the fruits of your life's labor.\n\n So essentially those who love liberty need an \"edge\" of\nsome sort if we're ultimately going to prevail. We obvi-\nously can't use the altruists' \"other-directedness\" of\n\"work, slave, suffer, sacrifice, so that next generation of\na billion random strangers can live in a better world.\"\nRecognize that, however immoral such an appeal might be, it\nis nonetheless an extremely powerful one in today's culture.\nIf you can convince people to work energetically for a\n\"cause,\" caring only enough for their personal welfare so as\nto remain alive enough and healthy enough to continue\nworking--then you have a truly massive reservoir of energy\nto draw from. Equally clearly, this is just the sort of ap-\npeal which tautologically cannot be utilized for egoistic or\nlibertarian goals. If I were to stand up before you tonight\nand say something like, \"Listen, follow me as I enunciate my\nnoble \"cause,\" contribute your money to support the \"cause,\"\ngive up your free time to work for the \"cause,\" strive\nselflessly to bring it about, and then (after you and your\nchildren are dead) maybe your children's children will actu-\nally live under egoism\"--you'd all think I'd gone mad. And\nof course you'd be right. Because the point I'm trying to\nmake is that libertarianism and/or egoism will be spread if,\nwhen, and as, individual libertarians and/or egoists find it\nprofitable and/or enjoyable to do so. And probably only\nthen.\n\n While I certainly do not disparage the concept of poli-\ntical action, I don't believe that it is the only, nor even\nnecessarily the most cost-effective path toward increasing\nfreedom in our time. Consider that, for a fraction of the\ninvestment in time, money and effort I might expend in try-\ning to convince the state to abolish wiretapping and all\nforms of censorship--I can teach every libertarian who's in-\nterested how to use cryptography to abolish them\nunilaterally.\n\n There is a maxim--a proverb--generally attributed to\nthe Eskimoes, which very likely most Libertarians have al-\nready heard. And while you likely would not quarrel with\nthe saying, you might well feel that you've heard it often\nenough already, and that it has nothing further to teach us,\nand moreover, that maybe you're even tired of hearing it. I\nshall therefore repeat it now:\n\n If you give a man a fish, the saying runs, you feed him\nfor a day. But if you teach a man how to fish, you feed him\nfor a lifetime.\n\n Your exposure to the quote was probably in some sort of\na \"workfare\" vs. \"welfare\" context; namely, that if you\ngenuinely wish to help someone in need, you should teach him\nhow to earn his sustenance, not simply how to beg for it.\nAnd of course this is true, if only because the next time he\nis hungry, there might not be anybody around willing or even\nable to give him a fish, whereas with the information on how\nto fish, he is completely self sufficient.\n\n But I submit that this exhausts only the first order\ncontent of the quote, and if there were nothing further to\nglean from it, I would have wasted your time by citing it\nagain. After all, it seems to have almost a crypto-altruist\nslant, as though to imply that we should structure our ac-\ntivities so as to maximize the benefits to such hungry\nbeggars as we may encounter.\n\n But consider:\n\n Suppose this Eskimo doesn't know how to fish, but he\ndoes know how to hunt walruses. You, on the other hand,\nhave often gone hungry while traveling thru walrus country\nbecause you had no idea how to catch the damn things, and\nthey ate most of the fish you could catch. And now suppose\nthe two of you decide to exchange information, bartering\nfishing knowledge for hunting knowledge. Well, the first\nthing to observe is that a transaction of this type\ncategorically and unambiguously refutes the Marxist premise\nthat every trade must have a \"winner\" and a \"loser;\" the\nidea that if one person gains, it must necessarily be at the\n\"expense\" of another person who loses. Clearly, under this\nscenario, such is not the case. Each party has gained some-\nthing he did not have before, and neither has been dimin-\nished in any way. When it comes to exchange of information\n(rather than material objects) life is no longer a zero-sum\ngame. This is an extremely powerful notion. The \"law of\ndiminishing returns,\" the \"first and second laws of\nthermodynamics\"--all those \"laws\" which constrain our possi-\nbilities in other contexts--no longer bind us! Now that's\nanarchy!\n\n Or consider another possibility: Suppose this hungry\nEskimo never learned to fish because the ruler of his\nnation-state had decreed fishing illegal. Because fish\ncontain dangerous tiny bones, and sometimes sharp spines, he\ntells us, the state has decreed that their consumption--and\neven their possession--are too hazardous to the people's\nhealth to be permitted . . . even by knowledgeable, willing\nadults. Perhaps it is because citizens' bodies are thought\nto be government property, and therefore it is the function\nof the state to punish those who improperly care for govern-\nment property. Or perhaps it is because the state gener-\nously extends to competent adults the \"benefits\" it provides\nto children and to the mentally ill: namely, a full-time,\nall-pervasive supervisory conservatorship--so that they need\nnot trouble themselves with making choices about behavior\nthought physically risky or morally \"naughty.\" But, in any\ncase, you stare stupefied, while your Eskimo informant re-\nlates how this law is taken so seriously that a friend of\nhis was recently imprisoned for years for the crime of \"pos-\nsession of nine ounces of trout with intent to distribute.\"\n\n Now you may conclude that a society so grotesquely\noppressive as to enforce a law of this type is simply an\naffront to the dignity of all human beings. You may go far-\nther and decide to commit some portion of your discretion-\nary, recreational time specifically to the task of thwarting\nthis tyrant's goal. (Your rationale may be \"altruistic\" in\nthe sense of wanting to liberate the oppressed, or\n\"egoistic\" in the sense of proving you can outsmart the\noppressor--or very likely some combination of these or per-\nhaps even other motives.)\n\n But, since you have zero desire to become a martyr to\nyour \"cause,\" you're not about to mount a military campaign,\nor even try to run a boatload of fish through the blockade.\nHowever, it is here that technology--and in particular in-\nformation technology--can multiply your efficacy literally a\nhundredfold. I say \"literally,\" because for a fraction of\nthe effort (and virtually none of the risk) attendant to\nsmuggling in a hundred fish, you can quite readily produce a\nhundred Xerox copies of fishing instructions. (If the tar-\ngeted government, like present-day America, at least permits\nopen discussion of topics whose implementation is re-\nstricted, then that should suffice. But, if the government\nattempts to suppress the flow of information as well, then\nyou will have to take a little more effort and perhaps write\nyour fishing manual on a floppy disk encrypted according to\nyour mythical Eskimo's public-key parameters. But as far as\nincreasing real-world access to fish you have made genuine\nnonzero headway--which may continue to snowball as others\nre-disseminate the information you have provided. And you\nhave not had to waste any of your time trying to convert id-\neological adversaries, or even trying to win over the unde-\ncided. Recall Harry Browne's dictum from \"Freedom in an\nUnfree World\" that the success of any endeavor is in general\ninversely proportional to the number of people whose persua-\nsion is necessary to its fulfilment.\n\n If you look at history, you cannot deny that it has\nbeen dramatically shaped by men with names like Washington,\nLincoln, . . . Nixon . . . Marcos . . . Duvalier . . .\nKhadaffi . . . and their ilk. But it has also been shaped\nby people with names like Edison, Curie, Marconi, Tesla and\nWozniak. And this latter shaping has been at least as per-\nvasive, and not nearly so bloody.\n\n And that's where I'm trying to take The LiberTech\nProject. Rather than beseeching the state to please not en-\nslave, plunder or constrain us, I propose a libertarian net-\nwork spreading the technologies by which we may seize\nfreedom for ourselves.\n\n But here we must be a bit careful. While it is not (at\npresent) illegal to encrypt information when government\nwants to spy on you, there is no guarantee of what the fu-\nture may hold. There have been bills introduced, for exam-\nple, which would have made it a crime to wear body armor\nwhen government wants to shoot you. That is, if you were to\ncommit certain crimes while wearing a Kevlar vest, then that\nfact would constitute a separate federal crime of its own.\nThis law to my knowledge has not passed . . . yet . . . but\nit does indicate how government thinks.\n\n Other technological applications, however, do indeed\npose legal risks. We recognize, for example, that anyone\nwho helped a pre-Civil War slave escape on the \"underground\nrailroad\" was making a clearly illegal use of technology--as\nthe sovereign government of the United States of America at\nthat time found the buying and selling of human beings quite\nas acceptable as the buying and selling of cattle. Simi-\nlarly, during Prohibition, anyone who used his bathtub to\nferment yeast and sugar into the illegal psychoactive drug,\nalcohol--the controlled substance, wine--was using technol-\nogy in a way that could get him shot dead by federal agents\nfor his \"crime\"--unfortunately not to be restored to life\nwhen Congress reversed itself and re-permitted use of this\ndrug.\n\n So . . . to quote a former President, un-indicted co-\nconspirator and pardoned felon . . . \"Let me make one thing\nperfectly clear:\" The LiberTech Project does not advocate,\nparticipate in, or conspire in the violation of any law--no\nmatter how oppressive, unconstitutional or simply stupid\nsuch law may be. It does engage in description (for educa-\ntional and informational purposes only) of technological\nprocesses, and some of these processes (like flying a plane\nor manufacturing a firearm) may well require appropriate li-\ncensing to perform legally. Fortunately, no license is\nneeded for the distribution or receipt of information it-\nself.\n\n So, the next time you look at the political scene and\ndespair, thinking, \"Well, if 51% of the nation and 51% of\nthis State, and 51% of this city have to turn Libertarian\nbefore I'll be free, then somebody might as well cut my\ngoddamn throat now, and put me out of my misery\"--recognize\nthat such is not the case. There exist ways to make your-\nself free.\n\n If you wish to explore such techniques via the Project,\nyou are welcome to give me your name and address--or a fake\nname and mail drop, for that matter--and you'll go on the\nmailing list for my erratically-published newsletter. Any\nfriends or acquaintances whom you think would be interested\nare welcome as well. I'm not even asking for stamped self-\naddressed envelopes, since my printer can handle mailing la-\nbels and actual postage costs are down in the noise compared\nwith the other efforts in getting an issue out. If you\nshould have an idea to share, or even a useful product to\nplug, I'll be glad to have you write it up for publication.\nEven if you want to be the proverbial \"free rider\" and just\nbenefit from what others contribute--you're still welcome:\nEverything will be public domain; feel free to copy it or\ngive it away (or sell it, for that matter, 'cause if you can\nget money for it while I'm taking full-page ads trying to\ngive it away, you're certainly entitled to your capitalist\nprofit . . .) Anyway, every application of these principles\nshould make the world just a little freer, and I'm certainly\nwilling to underwrite that, at least for the forseeable fu-\nture.\n\n I will leave you with one final thought: If you don't\nlearn how to beat your plowshares into swords before they\noutlaw swords, then you sure as HELL ought to learn before\nthey outlaw plowshares too.\n\n --Chuck Hammill\n\n THE LIBERTECH PROJECT\n 3194 Queensbury Drive\n Los Angeles, California\n 90064\n 310-836-4157\n\n hammill@netcom.com\n\n[The above LiberTech address was updated December 1992, with the\n permission of Chuck Hammill, by Russell Whitaker]\n\nThose interested in the issues raised in this piece should participate\nin at least these newsgroups:\n\n alt.privacy\n alt.security.pgp\n comp.org.eff.talk\n sci.crypt\n\nA copy of the RSA-based public key encryption program, PGP 2.1 (Pretty\nGood Privacy), can be obtained at various ftp sites around the world.\nOne such site is gate.demon.co.uk, where an MS-DOS version can be had by\nanonymous ftp as pgp22.zip in /pub/pgp.\n\nVersions for other operating systems, including UNIX variants\nand Macintosh, are also available. Source code is also\navailable.\n\nHere's the blurb for PGP, by the way:\n\n- ---------------------- Quote ----------------------------------------\nPGP (Pretty Good Privacy) ver 2.2 - RSA public-key encryption freeware\nfor MSDOS, protects E-mail. Lets you communicate securely with people\nyou've never met, with no secure channels needed for prior exchange of\nkeys. Well featured and fast! Excellent user documentation.\n\nPGP has sophisticated key management, an RSA/conventional hybrid\nencryption scheme, message digests for digital signatures, data\ncompression before encryption, and good ergonomic design. Source\ncode is free.\n\nFilenames: pgp22.zip (executable and manuals), pgp22src.zip (sources)\nKeywords: PGP, Pretty Good Privacy, RSA, public key, encryption,\n privacy, authentication, signatures, email\n- ---------------------- End Quote -------------------------------------\n\nRussell Earl Whitaker whitaker@eternity.demon.co.uk\nCommunications Editor AMiX: RWhitaker\nEXTROPY: The Journal of Transhumanist Thought\nBoard member, Extropy Institute (ExI)\n\n\n-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----\nVersion: 2.2", "Note: The following was released by the White House today in\n conjunction with the announcement of the Clipper Chip\n encryption technology.\n\n FACT SHEET\n\n PUBLIC ENCRYPTION MANAGEMENT\n\nThe President has approved a directive on \"Public Encryption\nManagement.\" The directive provides for the following:\n\nAdvanced telecommunications and commercially available encryption\nare part of a wave of new computer and communications technology. \nEncryption products scramble information to protect the privacy of\ncommunications and data by preventing unauthorized access. \nAdvanced telecommunications systems use digital technology to\nrapidly and precisely handle a high volume of communications. \nThese advanced telecommunications systems are integral to the\ninfrastructure needed to ensure economic competitiveness in the\ninformation age.\n\nDespite its benefits, new communications technology can also\nfrustrate lawful government electronic surveillance. Sophisticated\nencryption can have this effect in the United States. When\nexported abroad, it can be used to thwart foreign intelligence\nactivities critical to our national interests. In the past, it has\nbeen possible to preserve a government capability to conduct\nelectronic surveillance in furtherance of legitimate law\nenforcement and national security interests, while at the same time\nprotecting the privacy and civil liberties of all citizens. As\nencryption technology improves, doing so will require new,\ninnovative approaches.\n\nIn the area of communications encryption, the U. S. Government has\ndeveloped a microcircuit that not only provides privacy through\nencryption that is substantially more robust than the current\ngovernment standard, but also permits escrowing of the keys needed\nto unlock the encryption. The system for the escrowing of keys\nwill allow the government to gain access to encrypted information\nonly with appropriate legal authorization.\n\nTo assist law enforcement and other government agencies to collect\nand decrypt, under legal authority, electronically transmitted\ninformation, I hereby direct the following action to be taken:\n\nINSTALLATION OF GOVERNMENT-DEVELOPED MICROCIRCUITS\n\nThe Attorney General of the United States, or her representative,\nshall request manufacturers of communications hardware which\nincorporates encryption to install the U.S. government-developed\nkey-escrow microcircuits in their products. The fact of law\nenforcement access to the escrowed keys will not be concealed from\nthe American public. All appropriate steps shall be taken to\nensure that any existing or future versions of the key-escrow\nmicrocircuit are made widely available to U.S. communications\nhardware manufacturers, consistent with the need to ensure the\nsecurity of the key-escrow system. In making this decision, I do\nnot intend to prevent the private sector from developing, or the\ngovernment from approving, other microcircuits or algorithms that\nare equally effective in assuring both privacy and a secure key-\nescrow system.\n\nKEY-ESCROW\n\nThe Attorney General shall make all arrangements with appropriate\nentities to hold the keys for the key-escrow microcircuits\ninstalled in communications equipment. In each case, the key\nholder must agree to strict security procedures to prevent\nunauthorized release of the keys. The keys shall be released only\nto government agencies that have established their authority to\nacquire the content of those communications that have been\nencrypted by devices containing the microcircuits. The Attorney\nGeneral shall review for legal sufficiency the procedures by which\nan agency establishes its authority to acquire the content of such\ncommunications.\n\nPROCUREMENT AND USE OF ENCRYPTION DEVICES\n\nThe Secretary of Commerce, in consultation with other appropriate\nU.S. agencies, shall initiate a process to write standards to\nfacilitate the procurement and use of encryption devices fitted\nwith key-escrow microcircuits in federal communications systems\nthat process sensitive but unclassified information. I expect this\nprocess to proceed on a schedule that will permit promulgation of\na final standard within six months of this directive. ", "[some deleted]\n\nOne thing that seems ambiguous is whether a signal being echoed down from\ngeosynchronous orbit is \"...from outside the United States.\"\n\nAlso, being able to assess whether NSA is playing by the rules requires\nknowing what the rules are. We only know a subset. For those even more\nsuspicious, there could be other surveillance organizations \"blacker\"\nthan the NSA.\n", "I received the following two notes from Martin Hellman with details\non how Clipper will work. They are posted with his permission. The\nimplications of some details are fascinating.\n\n-------\nDate: Sat, 17 Apr 93 23:05:23 PDT\nFrom: \"Martin Hellman\" \nTo: (a long list of recipients)\nSubject: Clipper Chip\n\n\nMost of you have seen the announcement in Friday's NY Times,\netc. about NIST (National Institute of Standards & Technology)\nannouncing the \"Clipper Chip\" crypto device. Several messges\non the net have asked for more technical details, and some have\nbeen laboring under understandable misunderstandings given\nthe lack of details in the news articles. So here to help out\nis your friendly NSA link: me. I was somewhat surprised Friday\nto get a call from the Agency which supplied many of the missing\ndetails. I was told the info was public, so here it is (the cc of this\nto Dennis Branstad at NIST is mostly as a double check on my\nfacts since I assume he is aware of all this; please let me know\nif I have anything wrong):\n\nThe Clipper Chip will have a secret crypto algorithm embedded in \nSilicon. Each chip will have two secret, 80-bit keys. One will be the \nsame for all chips (ie a system-wide key) and the other will be unit \nspecific. I don't know what NIST and NSA will call them, but I will \ncall them the system key SK and unit key UK in this message. \nThe IC will be designed to be extremely difficult to reverse so \nthat the system key can be kept secret. (Aside: It is clear that \nthey also want to keep the algorithm secret and, in my opinion, \nit may be as much for that as this stated purpose.) The unit key \nwill be generated as the XOR of two 80-bit random numbers K1 \nand K2 (UK=K1+K2) which will be kept by the two escrow \nauthorities. Who these escrow authorities will be is still to be \ndecided by the Attorney General, but it was stressed to me that \nthey will NOT be NSA or law enforcement agencies, that they \nmust be parties acceptable to the users of the system as unbiased. \nWhen a law enforcement agency gets a court order, they will \npresent it to these two escrow authorities and receive K1 and \nK2, thereby allowing access to the unit key UK.\n\nIn addition to the system key, each user will get to choose his \nor her own key and change it as often as desired. Call this key \nplain old K. When a message is to be sent it will first be \nencrypted under K, then K will be encrypted under the unit key UK, \nand the serial number of the unit added to produce a three part \nmessage which will then be encrypted under the system key SK \nproducing\n\n E{ E[M; K], E[K; UK], serial number; SK}\n\nWhen a court order obtains K1 and K2, and thence K, the law \nenforcement agency will use SK to decrypt all information \nflowing on the suspected link [Aside: It is my guess that \nthey may do this constantly on all links, with or without a \ncourt order, since it is almost impossible to tell which links \nover which a message will flow.] This gives the agency access to \n\n E[M; K], E[K; UK], serial number\n\nin the above message. They then check the serial number \nof the unit and see if it is on the \"watch list\" for which they \nhave a court order. If so, they will decrypt E[K; UK] to obtain K, \nand then decrypt E[M; K] to obtain M.\n\nI am still in the process of assessing this scheme, so please do \nnot take the above as any kind of endorsement of the proposed \nscheme. All I am trying to do is help all of us assess the scheme \nmore knowledgably. But I will say that the need for just one court \norder worries me. I would feel more comfortable (though not \nnecessarily comfortable!) if two separate court orders were \nneeded, one per escrow authority. While no explanation is\nneeded, the following story adds some color: In researching\nsome ideas that Silvio Micali and I have been kicking around,\nI spoke with Gerald Gunther, the constitutional law expert\nhere at Stanford and he related the following story: When\nEdward Levi became Pres. Ford's attorney general (right\nafter Watergate), he was visited by an FBI agent asking\nfor \"the wiretap authorizations.\" When Levy asked for\nthe details so he could review the cases as required by\nlaw, the agent told him that his predecessors just turned\nover 40-50 blank, signed forms every time. Levi did not\ncomply and changed the system, but the lesson is clear: \nNo single person or authority should have the power to\nauthorize wiretaps (or worse yet, divulging of personal\nkeys). Sometimes he or she will be an Edward Levi\nand sometimes a John Mitchell.\n\nMartin Hellman\n\n----\n\nDate: Sun, 18 Apr 93 11:41:42 PDT\nFrom: \"Martin Hellman\" \nTo: smb@research.att.com\nSubject: Re: Clipper Chip\n\nIt is fine to post my previous message to sci.crypt \nif you also post this message with it in which:\n\n1. I ask recipients to be sparse in their requesting further info \nfrom me or asking for comments on specific questions. By\nthis posting I apologize for any messages I am unable to\nrespond to. (I already spend too much time answering too much\ne-mail and am particularly overloaded this week with other\nresponsibilities.) ", "\n\nGood idea, But why put all the eggs in one basket?\n\nGiven that the escrow keys are generated 200 at a time on floppy disks, why\nnot keep them there rather than creating one huge database that will have to\nbe guarded better than Fort Knox.\n\nGive each floppy to a different bank for safekeeping. The USA has over 10,000\nbanks and thrifts - there are not likely to be more than 2,000,000 Clipper\nphones sold.", "\n\nThe chip and algorithm are classified. If you reverse engineer it and\ntell people, you are likely to go to jail.\n\nPerhaps some foreign governments or corporations could help us out by\ncracking the system outside the USA. The US government could probably\nstop importation of clone hardware, but a software implementation\nshould be practical.\n", "From: pmetzger@snark.shearson.com (Perry E. Metzger)\n\n\tYou obviously haven't read the information about the system. The chips\n\tput out serial number infomation into the cypher stream to allow\n\tthemselves to be identified. The system does not rely on registering\n\tpeople as owning particular phone units.\n\nAnd probably as a back door to allow re-generation of the secret key.\n\nHave we determined yet that S1 and S2 don't ever change?", "\nYes -- great chapter. Elizabeth Friedman (sp?) comes shining through.\n\nHowever, the chapter also notes that these rum runners invented their own\ncrypto -- hired ex-military folks, in fact. (How's that for a revolving\ndoor?)\n\nNow, given that today's rum runners (coke runners, actually) have even more\nmoney than yesterday's, it's reasonable to expect them to have even better\ncryptography. I doubt they have a chip foundry of their own yet, but ....\n\nSo, my question of the FBI/NIST/NSA is: \"How are you going to make the rum\nrunners use the Clipper Chip?\"\n\nAnswer: \tyou're not.\n\nQuestion:\tOK -- in that case, your justification for taking away our\n\t\trights has evaporated. How do you justify our loss of rights\n\t\tif you can't use the drug dealers and terrorists?\n\n", "IMHO, one should place the keybanks into satellites (space). The \nrecovery should be done only by (highly visible) teams of astronauts.\n\n\n-- \nBorut B. Lavrencic, D.Sc. | X.400 :C=si;A=mail;P=ac;O=ijs;S=lavrencic\nJ. Stefan Institute | Internet:Borut.B.Lavrencic@ijs.si\nUniversity of Ljubljana, | Phone :+ 386 1 159 199\nSI-61111 Ljubljana, Slovenia |\t PGP Public Key available on request", "\n\nGood question. I also wanted to find out and I did a while ago.\n\nIn our former communist times such activity (i.e. sending crypto emails)\nwould be prevented sooner ot later, law or no law. But now there is no law \nagainst it. So we are free to use it. We now have an EC conformant law for \nprotection and registration of personal files. You must remember that the \nsituation in small countries is vastly different from the big ones.\n-- \nBorut B. Lavrencic, D.Sc. | X.400 :C=si;A=mail;P=ac;O=ijs;S=lavrencic\nJ. Stefan Institute | Internet:Borut.B.Lavrencic@ijs.si\nUniversity of Ljubljana, | Phone :+ 386 1 159 199\nSI-61111 Ljubljana, Slovenia |\t PGP Public Key available on request", "something that no one has discussed yet (or I missed it):\n\nThe FBI sets up a wiretap AFTER the court order was handed. \nOnly at this point they can access the line and detect \nthe serial number N.\n\nWhat happens next, does the FBI simply asks for the keys\nfor N, and, since a warrant was issued for the line, the FBI \nsimply gets it? What if multiple phones are used from the\nsame house, the FBI just asks for N1, N2, etc.?\n\nExactly who is to prevent the FBI from claiming some\nother serial number, X, was also used over the wirtapped \nline and get the keys for X? \n\nEither a second court order (for the specific serial/key)\nis required (and I have seen no indication of this), or\nthe FBI can effectively ask for any pair of keys at any\ntime, so the escrow key holders are a total fake.\n\nAn unrelated issue: if and when all phones always use\nthe clipper chip, how are call-transfers going to take \nplace?!\n", "\tAnd this means that the FBI will want to track the customer lists of\n\tbetter encryption phones, because \"the only reason a person would want\n\tone is to evade the police.\"\n\nThey don't have to track customer lists - they merely have to digitally\nlisten to any phone line and eliminate any that don't have the clipper\nheader/signature. (No-one has said how it will be modulated - want a bet\nit's a non-standard and hence easily recognisable baudrate?)\n\nDevices to scan exchanges and detect modems etc already exist. I've seen\nthem advertised in the trade press.\n\nOnce you eliminate crippled crypto devices and ordinary data modems, what's\nleft is crypto worth looking more closely at. I guess any substitute scheme\nwill have to be v32bis or v.fast to disguise it, though then they just start\nlooking at the data too...\n\nWhatever happens though, the effect of this new chip will be to make private\ncrypto stand out like a sore thumb.", "\nCould somebody provide an overview of the proposed systems using the\nchip? (Ought to see if ATT has a spec sheet) Skipjack sounds like a\nnormal digital encryption algorithm, so the data path will have to be\n\tvoice --> digitize --> compress --> encrypt \nCompression will be necessary to fit the data on the wire, unless\nthey want to wait for ISDN (that we should be so lucky...). Feeding\npre-encrypted data into the compressor will cause it to chuckle at\nyou; you'd have to tap into the guts of the phone and hack either\nthe compressed data stream, or selected parts of the output stream\nbefore it hits the modem. Unless you want to pay for two fast\nmodems on top of the encryption, and just plug the box in between\nyour phone and the wall.\n", "April 16, 1993\n\nINITIAL EFF ANALYSIS OF CLINTON PRIVACY AND SECURITY PROPOSAL\n\nThe Clinton Administration today made a major announcement on\ncryptography policy which will effect the privacy and security of\nmillions of Americans. The first part of the plan is to begin a\ncomprehensive inquiry into major communications privacy issues such as\nexport controls which have effectively denied most people easy access to\nrobust encryption, and law enforcement issues posed by new technology.\n\nHowever, EFF is very concerned that the Administration has already\nreached a conclusion on one critical part of the inquiry, before any\npublic comment or discussion has been allowed. Apparently, the\nAdministration is going to use its leverage to get all telephone\nequipment vendors to adopt a voice encryption standard developed by the\nNational Security Agency. The so-called \"Clipper Chip\" is an 80-bit,\nsplit key escrowed encryption scheme which will be built into chips\nmanufactured by a military contractor. Two separate escrow agents would\nstore users' keys, and be required to turn them over law enforcement upon\npresentation of a valid warrant. The encryption scheme used is to be\nclassified, but the chips will be available to any manufacturer for\nincorporation into its communications products.\n\n This proposal raises a number of serious concerns .\n\nFirst, the Administration has adopted a solution before conducting an\ninquiry. The NSA-developed Clipper Chip may not be the most secure\nproduct. Other vendors or developers may have better schemes.\nFurthermore, we should not rely on the government as the sole source for\nthe Clipper or any other chips. Rather, independent chip manufacturers\nshould be able to produce chipsets based on open standards.\n\nSecond, an algorithm cannot be trusted unless it can be tested. Yet, the\nAdministration proposes to keep the chip algorithm classified. EFF\nbelieves that any standard adopted ought to be public and open. The\npublic will only have confidence in the security of a standard that is\nopen to independent, expert scrutiny. \n\nThird, while the use of the use of a split-key, dual escrowed system may\nprove to be a reasonable balance between privacy and law enforcement\nneeds, the details of this scheme must be explored publicly before it is\nadopted. What will give people confidence in the safety of their keys? \nDoes disclosure of keys to a third party waive an individual's Fifth\nAmendment rights in subsequent criminal inquiries? These are but a few\nof the many questions the Administrations proposal raised but fails to\nanswer.\n\nIn sum, the Administration has shown great sensitivity to the importance\nof these issues by planning a comprehensive inquiry into digital privacy\nand security. However, the \"Clipper Chip\" solution ought to be\nconsidered as part of the inquiry, and not be adopted before the\ndiscussion even begins.\n\nDETAILS OF THE PROPOSAL:\n\nESCROW\n\nThe 80-bit key will be divided between two escrow agents, each of whom\nhold 40-bits of each key. The manufacturer of the communications device\nwould be required to register all keys with the two independent escrow\nagents. A key is tied to the device, however, not the person using it.\n\nUpon presentation of a valid court order, the two escrow agents would\nhave to turn the key parts over to law enforcement agents. According to\nthe Presidential Directive just issued, the Attorney General will be\nasked to identify appropriate escrow agents. Some in the Administration\nhave suggested that one non-law enforcement federal agency (perhaps the\nFederal Reserve), and one non-governmental organization could be chosen,\nbut there is no agreement on the identity of the agents yet.\n\nCLASSIFIED ALGORITHM AND THE POSSIBILITY OF BACK DOORS\n\nThe Administration claims that there are no back doors -- means by which\nthe government or others could break the code without securing keys from\nthe escrow agents -- and that the President will be told there are no\nback doors to this classified algorithm. In order to prove this,\nAdministration sources are interested in arranging for an all-star crypto\ncracker team to come in, under a security arrangement, and examine the\nalgorithm for trap doors. The results of the investigation would then be\nmade public.\n\nThe Clipper Chipset was designed and is being produced and a sole-source,\nsecret contract between the National Security Agency and two private\nfirms: VLSI and Mycotronx. NSA work on this plan has been underway for\nabout four years. The manufacturing contract was let 14 months ago.\n\nGOVERNMENT AS MARKET DRIVER\n\nIn order to get a market moving, and to show that the government believes\nin the security of this system, the feds will be the first big customers\nfor this product. Users will include the FBI, Secret Service, VP Al\nGore, and maybe even the President. At today's Commerce Department press\nbriefing, a number of people asked this question, though: why would any\nprivate organization or individual adopt a classified standard that had\nno independent guaranty of security or freedom from trap doors?\n\nCOMPREHENSIVE POLICY INQUIRY\n\nThe Administration has also announced that it is about to commence an\ninquiry into all policy issues related to privacy protection, encryption,\nand law enforcement. The items to be considered include: export\ncontrols on encryption technology and the FBI's Digital Telephony\nProposal. It appears that the this inquiry will be conducted by the\nNational Security Council. Unfortunately, however, the Presidential\nDirective describing the inquiry is classified. Some public involvement\nin the process has been promised, but they terms have yet to be specified.\n\nFROM MORE INFORMATION CONTACT:\n\nJerry Berman, Executive Director (jberman@eff.org)\nDaniel J. Weitzner, Senior Staff Counsel (djw@eff.org)\n\nFull text of the Press releases and Fact Sheets issued by the\nAdministration will be available on EFF's ftp site.", "Archive-name: ripem/attacks\nLast-update: 31 Mar 93 21:00:00 -0500\n\nSOME POSSIBLE ATTACKS ON RIPEM\n------------------------------\n\nThis is a living list of potential weaknesses to keep your eyes open\nfor when using RIPEM for secure electronic mail. It does not go into\ngreat detail, and is almost certainly not exhaustive. Obviously, many\nof the weaknesses are weaknesses of cryptographically secured mail in\ngeneral, and will pertain to secure mail programs other than RIPEM.\nIt is maintained by Marc VanHeyningen . It\nis posted monthly to a variety of news groups; followups pertaining\nspecifically to RIPEM should go to alt.security.ripem.\n\nCRYPTANALYSIS ATTACKS\n---------------------\n\n- Breaking RSA would allow an attacker to find out your private key,\n in which case he could read any mail encrypted to you and sign\n messages with your private key.\n\n RSA is generally believed to be resistant to all standard\n cryptanalytic techniques. Even a standard key (about 516 bits with\n RIPEM) is long enough to render this impractical, barring a\n huge investment in hardware or a breakthrough in factoring.\n\n- Breaking DES would allow an attacker to read any given message,\n since the message itself is encrypted with DES. It would not allow\n an attacker to claim to be you.\n\n DES has only 56 bits in its key, and thus could conceivably be\n compromised by brute force with sufficient hardware, but few agencies\n have such money to devote to simply read one message. Since each\n message has a different DES key, the work for each message would\n remain high.\n\nKEY MANAGEMENT ATTACKS\n----------------------\n\n- Stealing your private key would allow the same benefits as breaking\n RSA. To safeguard it, it is encrypted with a DES key which is derived\n from a passphrase you type in. However, if an attacker can get a copy\n of your private keyfile and your passphrase (by snooping network\n packets, tapping lines, or whatever) he could break the whole scheme.\n\n The main risk is that of transferring either the passphrase or the\n private key file across an untrusted link. So don't do that. Run \n RIPEM on a trusted machine, preferably one sitting right in front of\n you. Ideally, your own machine in your own home (or maybe office)\n which nobody else has physical access to.\n\n- Fooling you into accepting a bogus public key for someone else could \n allow an opponent to deceive you into sending secret messages to him\n rather than to the real recipient. If the enemy can fool your\n intended recipient as well, he could re-encrypt the messages with\n the other bogus public key and pass them along.\n\n It is important to get the proper public keys of other people.\n The most common mechanism for this is finger; assuming the opponent\n has not compromised routers or daemons or such, finger can be \n given a fair amount of trust. The strongest method of key\n authentication is to exchange keys in person; however, this is\n not always practical. Having other people \"vouch for you\" by\n signing a statement containing your key is possible, although \n RIPEM doesn't have features for doing this as automatically as\n PGP. RIPEM does generate and check MD5 fingerprints of public keys\n in the key files; they may be exchanged via a separate channel for\n authentication.\n\nPLAYBACK ATTACKS\n----------------\n\n- Even if an opponent cannot break the cryptography, an opponent could\n still cause difficulties. For example, suppose you send a message\n with MIC-ONLY (a PEM mode which does not provide disclosure protection)\n to Alice which says \"OK, let's do that.\" Your opponent intercepts\n it, and now resends it to Bob, who now has a message which is\n authenticated as from you telling him to do that. Of course, he may\n interpret it in an entirely different context. Or your opponent\n could transmit the same message to the same recipient much later,\n figuring it would be seen differently at a later time. Or the\n opponent could change the Originator-Name: to himself, register \n your public key as his, and send a message hoping the recipient\n will send him return mail indicating (perhaps even quoting!) the\n unknown message.\n\n To defeat playback attacks, the plaintext of each message should \n include some indication of the sender and recipient, and a unique\n identifier (typically the date). A good front-end script for RIPEM\n should do this automatically (IMHO). As a recipient, you should be\n sure that the Originator-Name: header and the sender indicated within\n the plaintext are the same, that you really are a recipient, and that\n the message is not an old one. Some this also can and should be\n automated. The author of this FAQ has made a modest attempt at\n automating the process of generating and checking encapsulated\n headers; the programs are included in the standard distribution in\n the utils directory.\n\nLOCAL ATTACKS\n-------------\n\n- Clearly, the security of RIPEM cannot be greater than the security of\n the machine where the encryption is performed. For example, under\n UNIX, a super-user could manage to get at your encrypted mail,\n although it would take some planning and effort to do something like\n replace the RIPEM executable with a Trojan horse or to get a copy of\n the plaintext, depending how it's stored.\n\n In addition, the link between you and the machine running RIPEM is\n an extension of that. If you decrypt with RIPEM on a remote machine\n which you are connected to via network (or, worse yet, modem), an\n eavesdropper could see the plaintext (and probably also your\n passphrase.)\n\n RIPEM should only be executed on systems you trust, obviously. In\n the extreme case, RIPEM should only be used on your own machine,\n which you have total control over and which nobody else has access\n to, which has only carefully examined software known to be free of\n viruses, and so on. However, there's a very real trade-off between\n convenience and security here.\n\n A more moderately cautious user might use RIPEM on a UNIX workstation\n where other people have access (even root access), but increase\n security by keeping private keys and the (statically linked, of\n course) executable on a floppy disk.\n\n Some people will keep RIPEM on a multi-user system, but when dialing\n in over an insecure line, they will download the message to their\n own system and perform the RIPEM decryption there. However, the\n security provided by such a mechanism is somewhat illusory; since\n you presumably type your cleartext password to log in, you've just\n given away the store, since the attacker can now log in as you and\n install traps in your account to steal your private key next time\n you use it from a less insecure line. This will likely remain the\n situation as long as most systems use the rather quaint mechanism of\n cleartext password authentication.\n\n I find it nice to put a brief statement of how carefully I manage my\n security arrangement in my .plan next to my public key, so that\n potential correspondents can be aware what level of precautions are\n in place. Some people use two keys, a short one which is not\n carefully managed for ordinary use and a longer one which is treated\n with greater care for critical correspondence.\n\nUNTRUSTED PARTNER ATTACKS\n-------------------------\n\n- RIPEM's encryption will ensure that only a person with the private key\n corresponding to the public key used to encrypt the data may read the\n traffic. However, once someone with that key gets the message, she\n may always make whatever kind of transformations she wishes. There \n exist no cryptographic barriers to a recipient, say, taking an\n ENCRYPTED message and converting it to a MIC-ONLY message, signed by\n you and readable by anyone, although RIPEM does not provide this\n functionality. Indeed, the latest PEM draft I have seen specifically\n states that such transformations should be possible to allow\n forwarding functions to work.", "\n\nNonsense! I wasn't asked if Larry O'Brien should trust Nixon with his keys,\nbut whether I would.\n\nDavid", "\n\n Money orders operate pretty much like checks, with both parties being\nsupposed to sign them. I assume you'd have to show the buy-back people\nan ID, and you'd then have a money order made out to that ID. \n\n As far as traceable as a practical matter, I don't know, it would\ndepend on whether they bother to computerize who the recipient's name is\non the money order and bother keying that sort of thing in. I'd say\ncertainly the police and the buyback people would keep a record of who\nthey gave money orders out to.\n\n\n There might be some questions asked, I suppose, if somebody \nbrought in a number of weapons each time over a series of \"buy back\"\nprograms.\n\n ", " >Clipper also allows an extraordinary opportunity for the criminal to\n >conceal use of super-encryption. An automated full-system surveillance\n >mechanism (quite feasible across radio bandwidth) which knows family key F,\n >can validate Clipper wrappers and N:ESN associations, but it cannot reveal\n >in realtime the use of super-encryption, unless it knows all unit keys,\n >which we are being assured are only to be made available in two separate\n >pieces, upon specific wiretap-like order.\n\n The serial number will be in a 64 bit block, with a 34 bit filler. Doesn't\n take a lot to check to see if that is correct.\n\nDepends on whether the filler is a constant (makes checking easy,\nbut susceptible to replay), or variable (e.g. timer, counter, random),\nwhich makes replay harder and can also make it easier for the\ninquisitors to know if they've missed messages, or gotten them out of\nsequence, or other interesting things that sort of person might care about.\n\nIt is still easy to conceal super-encryption, at least until the\ninquisitors get ahold of the K key, which can take a while,\npresumably not in near-real-time. (Worst-case, in which the escrow agencies\nprovide the U key to the local cops, still only gets one side of the\nconversation per warrant, unless the same key is used for both directions,\nwhich I suppose the CAPSTONE version of the chip will probably insist on.)", "\n\nPlease note that Bill Clinton probably has little if anything to do\nwith the design, implementation or reasoning behind this chip or behind\nany \"moves\" being made using this chip as a pawn.\n\nRemember, when you elect a president of the united states, it's not\nthe case that all the Republicans, etc. in the NSA and FBI and CIA\nimmediately pack their bags and get replaced by a team of fresh young\nDemocrats. Most of the government -- say, 96% -- is appointed or\nhired rather than elected. Since this Clipper device has been in\nproduction for over six months, it probably has little or no \nfoundation in the currently elected Democratic Executive body.\n\n\nCould be. However, the sky hasn't fallen yet, Chicken Little.", " >Qualcomm had spare cycles in the DSPs for their new CDMA digital\n >cellular phones. They wanted to put strong crypto into them since they\n >had the capacity. The government decided to \"discourage\" them.\n\n You're blowing smoke. Qualcomm wants to sell to nice, lucrative overseas\n markets like Japan and the EC. The government told them \"don't do encryption\n if you ever hope to export this technology\". The reason that CDMA doesn't\n have encryption is NOT because the G-men came a'knocking at Qualcomm's door.\n It's because Qualcomm doesn't think that the US market for digital cellular\n is big enough for them. This is just the International Traffic in Arms\n Regulations all over again.\n\nPerry has already stated on the net that Qualcomm wanted to sell overseas, and\nthe government told them they wouldn't be allowed to export,\nso he's only blowing the same smoke you are :-)\nSure, they probably could have made a US version, and a non-crypto\nexport version, and contracted with a Bulgarian or Japanese software house to\ndevelop an overseas crypto ROM, but that's getting pretty expensive.\n\n No, Cylink sells their phones because they're willing to make different\n stuff for domestic use vs. export. Qualcomm isn't. So Cylink makes\n money--that's capitalism, comrade.\n\nWell, some people like capitalism, and others prefer free enterprise;\nthey're different! Using the government to stifle your competition is capitalist.\n\n >Someone out there WILL build a unit to do all this. Better yet,\n >prehaps someone will produce a package that turns any 486 box with a\n >sound card into a secure phone.\n \"Someone\" this and \"someone\" that. If you think it's so easy, why are\n you whining on the net instead of getting your butt in gear and writing it?\n\nWriting good crypto code is something most good programmers can do;\nwriting good new crypto algorithms is a very specialized skill.\nDeveloping new voice coding algorithms is also pretty specialized,\nbut finding ways to implement the more complex ones when you don't\nhave enough horsepower is still fairly hairy stuff.\nOnce the 586/Pentium becomes widespread, or the next generation of\nsound boards has DSPs on it, I suspect we'll see it happen.\nMaybe the vanilla 486+Soundblaster is enough.", "Gentlefolk,\n\n It seems to me that the \"Step 1\" of taking a warrant to the\n telco to get a wiretap is so much stinky red herring (don't\n you love animal metaphors).\n\n With each phone broadcasting the serial number of its chip\n (\"E(N;F)\" is not syntactically different than \"N\"), all they\n have to do is aim a reciever in the general direction of\n today's target and use the serial number to identify the\n session they want, and get the chip number of the other end of\n the conversation. Even without the key, this is great for\n traffic analysis. I can think of several ways to learn the\n right serial number.\n\n It looks like one intended effect of the Clipper is to\n eliminate the awkward business of getting the telco to\n cooperate (or risking getting caught in the act with your\n alligator clips erect). This is particularly handy if you have\n S1 and S2.\n\n BTW, did anyone explain why they are scrambling the serial\n number?\n \n Cheers,\n Marc\n\n---\n Marc Thibault | marc@tanda.isis.org\n Automation Architect | CIS:71441,2226\n R.R.1, Oxford Mills, Ontario, Canada | NC FreeNet: aa185", "\n\tThis appears to be generic calling upon the name of the anti-christ.\nJust for the hell of it, let's destroy this remark. Let us imagine that\nthe executive branch actually could extract keys from the escrow houses\nwithout anyone knowing, or telling. Now what? Dick has 80 bits of data.\nWhat the hell's he gonna do with it?\n\n\t1) Trot around to the telco and say 'we'd like an unauthorised\ndecrypting tap'. Uh huh.\n\t2) Break in to watergate and install his own tap (so his people still\ndo have to break in, neat, huh?) record some noise, then get the Executive\nBranch Phone Decryption Box (huh? they've got one? Goodness, wait 'til the\nwashington post gets hold of this) and decrypt the noise.\n\t3) More likely, stare at the key, and say 'Oh, hell it's not\nworth all this bloody hassle'\n\n\tTruth is, even granted *lots* of covert power on the part of\nthe Executive Branch, this system is *more* difficult to tap with than\nPOTS gear. The fact that it is easier to tap than some hypothetical\nsystem neither you nor I am going to place on our phones is neither\nhere nor there.\n\n\tThe only rational concerns I am seeing raised are:\n\n\ta) is the key really just chopped in half, and not some XOR\narrangement? That is, has some egregious technical error been built\nin to the plan?\n\tb) is this is the first step toward strict regulation of strong\nencryption?\n\n\n\n\tThis is b), of course. I suspect not. If the government actually\nwanted to make such regs, they'd just do it. A few hundred people on Usenet\nyelling about it wouldn't even slow the machine down.\n\n\tBesides, who is this mysterious 'they' who's going to take away\nall our rights the instant we let our guard down? Congress? That gang\nof buffoons can't even balance their checkbooks. The FBI? But.. they\ndon't make the laws. The NSA? Ditto. The white house? Bill Clinton\nis probably still looking for the bathroom. It's a big place, after all.\n\n\tAndrew", "\nTwo safeguards:\n\n1. The FBI could be asked to produce the law enforcement block to the escrow\nagencies, and associate it with a particular court order;\n\n2. If the thing comes to trial the defense attorneys can probe this issue\nclosely. It is not too different from proving that the speaker on a legal\nwiretap is the person the court order covered.\n\nPutting it another way, this question is not very different from the\npre-clipper question \"What's to prevent the FBI from getting a court order\nto tap Al Capone and then using it to tap Jonathan Livingstone Seagull\ninstead?\"\n\nDavid", "The key question is whether non-Clipper encryption will be made illegal.\n\n\nThe clear middle ground implied by these statements is to say that Americans\nhave the right to Clipper encryption, but not to unbreakable encryption.\nThis implies that, ultimately, non-Clipper strong encryption must become\nillegal.\n\n(As an aside, isn't the language here jarring? All this talk about\n\"harmonious balance\" when they're talking about taking away people's\nright to communications privacy?)\n\nAlthough the article emphasizes voice communication, data and mail encryption\nis mentioned as well:\n\n\n\nIt looks like the worst nightmares raised by Dorothy Denning's proposals\nare coming true. If the government continues on this course, I imagine\nthat we will see strong cryptography made illegal. Encryption programs\nfor disk files and email, as well as software to allow for encrypted\nvoice communications, will be distributed only through the\n\"underground\". People will have to learn how to hide the fact that\nthey are protecting their privacy.\n\nIt's shocking and frightening to see that this is actually happening here.", "\n(regarding NSA monitoring of US military code traffic)\n\n\nOn the contrary- The Walker spy case is one where the KGB was\ngiven keys (as I recall)\n-- \n", "The only way to view this method of generating unit keys is as a back-door.\nWhat else can you call a key deterministically generated from the serial\nnumber?\n\n\n To generate the unit key for a serial number N, the 30-bit value N is\n first padded with a fixed 34-bit block to produce a 64-bit block N1.\n S1 and S2 are then used as keys to triple-encrypt N1, producing a\n 64-bit block R1:\n\n\t R1 = E[D[E[N1; S1]; S2]; S1] .\n\n Similarly, N is padded with two other 34-bit blocks to produce N2 and\n N3, and two additional 64-bit blocks R2 and R3 are computed: \n\n\t R2 = E[D[E[N2; S1]; S2]; S1] \n\t R3 = E[D[E[N3; S1]; S2]; S1] .\n\n R1, R2, and R3 are then concatenated together, giving 192 bits. The\n first 80 bits are assigned to U1 and the second 80 bits to U2. The\n rest are discarded. The unit key U is the XOR of U1 and U2. U1 and U2\n are the key parts that are separately escrowed with the two escrow\n agencies.\n", " Is English (American, Canadian, etc.) common law recognized as\nlegally binding under international law? After all, we're talking about\nsomething that by its very nature isn't limited to the territory of one\nnation.", "\n\nAbsolutely, if I were assured by someone I trusted that the black box was\nmore secure. I have nothing to conceal from the government, but I would like\nto be sure that any Russian, Japanese, French, or other competitors for my\nservices can't read my traffic. I'd like to be sure that competitive bid\ninformation was safe from commercial competitors and foreign governments\nwhich would aid them.\n\nI believe the NSA has identical motivations with respect to my activities.\nThe President and many other senior government officials have made it very\nclear that they share these motivations. Thus I'd trust them on the\n\"coincidence of interests\" argument as well as on a basic trust in their\nprofessionalism and a high confidence in their skills.\n\nDavid", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nSo if we subvert one of the two escrow agents, we only have a 40-bit\nspace to search through...\n\n2^40 doesn't sound that big - is digital telephony subject to a known\nplaintext attack?\n\nIn which case half the key seems to be all that is needed, and the two\nagent escrow arrangement is pointless. \n\nOf course, the unknown algorithm might turn gaps in speech into \npseudo-random sequences, or there might be some magic involved, or...", "nobody@alumni.cco.caltech.edu correctly states Jerry Berman's 1985 view on\nprivacy, but he mistakenly assumes that this represents Berman's 1993 view as\nEFF Executive Director.\n\nAs one of the people who convinced Jerry that legal protections for privacy\nare insufficient, and that technical measures, especially public key\ncryptography, are also vitally necessary, I can tell you that Jerry and EFF\nare fully committed to this position.\n\nThe previous poster is apparently unaware of a long series of EFF positions in\nsupport of this view. I suggest those interested read EFF's position on\nClipper or our other work in digital privacy. Check ftp.eff.org for more\ndetails.\n\nOne of the great things about human beings is that they are capable of change\nand evolution in their thinking. The idea that crypto is critical to privacy\nis one which is no longer limited to certain net afficianados, but is \nspreading to parts of the public policy community in Washington.", "\nI agree. So why is Cylink the only (and expensive) game in town?\n\nNote: I think Cylink is great, and if my boss would double my salary, I'd buy \na bunch of their stuff :).\n\nOne thing that Clipper offers is interoperability, at a higher degree of \nsecurity than we currently have in non-proprietary voice encryption systems.\nThis means it will be cheaper than anyone's proprietary scheme, and easier to \ndeploy. This is, of course, either a bug or a feature depending on how you \nlook at it :).\n\n\nGreat! Where can I buy it?\n\nAnother note: If \"Clipper\" increases the incentive to bring stronger \nencryption to the mass market, all the better. It's far overpriced at \nthe moment.\n\n\nI don't care where we *need* to get it from, I care where we *can* get it \nfrom, and whether it will interoperate with everyone else.\n \n\nYou can build them right now as long as you don't want to export (a \nrestriction I firmly oppose). The only thing stopping people from making \ncheap encryption is greed: they want a lock on the market.\n\n\nOh, come on. Only if you trust it farther than it deserves. A Clipper phone \n*IS NOT* a substitute for a Cylink phone, or a STU-III. It's a substitute \nfor the \"voice scramblers\" advertised in the back of Radio Electronics.\n\n\nI disagree. Modulo ITAR, it's not the government that has sabotaged the \nmarket.\n\n\nCan you tell me where exactly we have given up that right?\n", "With all the talk about this Clipper chip, I have developed one question...\n\n\t\t\tHOW DOES IT WORK???\n\nIf you use this, then how does it get decrypted on the other end? Does the\nother party (receiving the phone call/mail/etc) have to know some code to \nundo it? Do I use a different method for calling one party than I would for \nanother?. If the other party can decrypt it, doesn't that mean that someone\nelse could also? I assume that if everyone has a different key, the only use\nwould be storing secure data for later retrieval by the same key. This seems\nlike a fundamental question to me, but I have very little experience with\ncryptosystems, other than DES. If someone could give me an explanation as\nto how it would be used (remember that I have had little experience with\nthis sort of thing) it would be very much appreciated. ", "\nTo me, a larger problem is that once disclosed, your keys could be used\nto decrypt any previously recorded conversations. I gather that from this\nproposal a warrant would be required to get the keys, but not to collect\nconversations! Consider the scenario where an agency collects preemptively\nall encrypted conversations for certain people likely to be targets (and\nnot necessarily \"legitimate\" targets), then arranges for some unrelated\nincident that can trigger a warrant:\n\n \"Your honor, we know that the suspect has received calls from noted \ncrime figure Bugsy Butthead [said calls arranged by the agency] and we must \ntherefore have this warrant to determine whether this suspect, in a\nsensitive govt post, is corrupt.\"\n\n I suppose that it is conceivable that there are session keys involved\nsomewhere, but that doesn't seem likely; if there are, why wouldn't the\ntechnical overview mention them when it goes to such details as the number\nof bits held by each escrow authority?\n\n This scheme is full of holes, and stinks to high heaven.\n\n -mel", "I can think of a couple of ways of guaranteeing authenticity in a one-time\npad encrytped scheme, though I'm not sure how to prove that what kind of\nauthenicity they provide.\n \n An obvious first-attempt might be to prepend a truly random (unpredictable\nfor Eve) block to the message, and then calculate a CRC which included the\nrandom starting block and all of the message. This could be encrypted after\nthe message. The problem is, I'm not sure it's impossible to come up with\na message that will hash to the same CRC regardless of the random starting\nblock. (It intuitively seems like it ought to be hard, but I'm not *that*\nsure....) Clearly, a crypto-strength hash like MD5 or the SHA would be\nstronger, but again, I'm not sure I'm comfortable claiming that it's\nunbreakable.\n \n A scheme to use up some of the pad bits to decide how many bits of 0's\nto include in the plaintext stream before going on wouldn't be too bad,\neither. At the cost of increasing the speed with which you use up your\npad, this could be used to give you arbitrarily low probability that your\nopponent could spoof a valid-looking message, since any deciphered plaintext\nin a spot that should be carrying 0's will show that something funny's going\non.\n \n If, for each message bit M_i, we used up one random bit, R_i, to decide\nwhether to insert a 0 into the plaintext stream, we'd get a total pad use\nof 2.5 times the message length. (We'd expand the message size by about\nhalf.) Each 0 that should appear in the plaintext stream that doesn't is a\nguess for our would-be spoofer. At each bit, she has to guess. I'm trying\nto see how to quantify her chances of making it all the way through the\nspoofed message, but it gets a little complicated, because she can get un-\nsynched, and still happen to have a 0 in that place in the spoofed message.\n \n Now, I can see a simple way of doing this that's got to be as secure\nas a one-time pad, at a cost of using 4 times the message length in pad bits.\n \n For each message bit, M_i, use one random bit, R_i, and xor them together\nto get X_i. Now, encrypt the three bits with the one-time pad. The enemy\nhas no way of guessing what R_i is, so he/she can't guess what X_i is, either.\nAny change she makes in the ciphertext stream will have to involve a guess\nof what R_i was. Is there any way to do this without using so many pad bits?\n \n Spoofing the message is equivalent to correctly guessing as many random\nbits as there are bits in the message. Clearly, this makes spoofing messages\njust as hard if you know the whole message text as if you know none of it.\nIn fact, it looks to me like this makes it just as hard to generate a spoofed\nmessage with the ciphertext as without it, but I'm not entirely sure about\nthat.\n \n Is there an easier way of doing this that's provably as secure as the\none-time pad?", "In order to have formulate a rational position on what cryptography\npolicies are acceptable, we must set forth a list of basic requirements.\nI would propose the following as a starting point:\n\n 1. The algorithm must be publicly known, and must have a record of\n surviving attempts by outside experts to find weaknesses.\n\n 2. The system implementation must make it possible to verify that the\n advertised algorithm is, in fact, the one that is being used.\n\n 3. The key must be quickly changeable by the user, and must be of a\n sufficient length and complexity to defeat any brute-force search\n possible now or in the reasonably near future.", "\n[Sarcastic text deleted, No value judgement implied]\n\n\nAt first I was going to complain that your analogy was completely\nirrelevant. But then I remembered something.\n\nRemember that move to get the U.S. to the metric system all those\nyears ago? As far as I know we were supposed to be there by now.\n\nThe government sold it as better for the people, easier to be in\ntune with the rest of the world. They had decided it was for\nour own good.\n\nThen, when the plan was released, it soon became apparant that the\ngovernment were a bunch 'o' thickies.\n\nThink about it, change all the railroad track widths, signs,\nscrews, abolish the old regime.\n\nAt the cost of millions of dollars.\n\nYour point is well taken. You think there is nothing to worry\nabout, you could care less who designs your cryptography, any\nmore than who designs your screws or the system of measurement\nyou use.\n\nSit back, that's right, just relax, we'll take care of all your\nneeds Mr. Molitor.\n\n", "Perhaps one way of getting away from this cripple chip that the U.S.\ngovernment seems to be pushing would be to come up with a good alternative.\nFor example, how about a scheme using RSA, and some hybrid of DES-CFB and\nanother strong stream cipher (Maybe IDEA-CFB)? This could be substantially\nthe same as the cripple chip, except that instead of key-registration, the\npolice could demand that you give up your secret key to them (with a court-\nissued warrant). Then, they could read the last few months of wiretapped\nmessages you've sent, and assuming you've committed no crimes, you could\ngenerate a new key pair and go about your business. I find that I'd be\nwilling to pay RSA for the right to use such a system, especially given the\nalternative. If you were unwilling to give up your secret key, then you'd\nprobably stay in jail (has anyone got a real legal precedent for this?).\n This would allow court-issued warrants to be used to gather information\non suspected criminals, but it couldn't be done in secrecy, and there\nwould be enormously less likelihood of corruption or theft of escrowed keys.\n(Maybe someone from the law-enforcement or intelligent community will correct\nme, but this doesn't *seem* like such a big loss in terms of law-enforcement\ncapabilities.)\n \n Any comments?", "I change login passwords every couple of months. I sure would suck if I had\nto get a new sparc station everytime I wanted to do this. It seems that this\nis what they expect you to do if you want to routinely change your password\non your phone. I'm sure the government contractor doesn't mind, but a system\nwhere you can cheaply change keys (DES) has inherent security advantages, \nregardless of the algorithms involved.", "\n\nKK> Newsgroups: sci.crypt\nKK> From: sphughes@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Shaun P. Hughes)\nKK> Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1993 07:18:59 GMT\n\n\n\t[..]\n\nKK> Just a random passing thought, but can anyone cite a documented use\nKK> of encryption technology by criminals and terrorists.\nKK> (Excluding the Iran-Contra Gang)\n\nKK> Sure, the rum-runners in Prohibition. See Kahn's _The Codebreakers_.\nKK> The irony was, they were using better codes and key security than\nKK> most governments were.", "\nIt depends on the mode you're using. For a single 64-bit input block, a\none-bit error will have a 50 percent chance of corrupting each of the 64\noutput bits - in other words, it essentially turns the output block into\na random number. If you're encrypting data in CBC mode, however, only the\none 64-bit block will be affected. The next block, and all that follow it\nwill be decrypted properly.\n\nIt's a good idea to have some kind of error correction in your system if\ncorrupted bits are likely.", "Just a little nitpicking. Wasn't it the government that required\na standard railway gauge ? Didn't that improve things ?\n\nPlease don't misunderstand. I'm utter suspicious of this Clipper\nchip. Why hold the design TOP SECRET ? Was this a work around the\nlaw that says that any discoveries made by people working for the\ngovernment is public domain. ( e.g. NIH Class Library, etc. )\nDES has its designs published all over the place and it is considered\nfairly strong ( although could be stronger ).", "\n\n\nWhew! Take it easy on the guy. Maybe he's going to do this in his\nspare time. Maybe he's going to do this to see how much a wiretap\n*really* costs. Maybe he's going to do this so he can add to the\nopposition to Clipper. I don't know fully why he might do this, but\nmaybe we shouldn't start flaming at the drop of a hat. ", "\n\n\nThere are several things in ITAR which have never been tested in court. \nThe concensus appears to be:\n\nYou could be arrested as an international arms trafficker. (You could,\nregardless of the state of the law, but there are some paragraphs which\nsuggest you would be violating the law.)\n\nIf it goes to court, the ITARs could be thrown out is incompatible with the\nFirst amendment; or the court could rule that \"software\" is \"technical\ndata\" not subject to the ITARs; or the court could rule that the\nphrase \"publicly available\" as defined in the ITARs would apply,\nmaking it only subject to requiring a general export license; or, you could\nbe prosecuted successfully for arms trafficing or espionage. General\nconcensus among lawyers who have read the ITARs, is that one of the first\ntwo would occur.", "\nI think your experiences under the Bulgarian regime are highly relevant.\nWe have too many people with their heads in the sand saying it cannot\nhappen here, as our Constitutional Rights are being trashed every day\nbecause the government justifies doing some end-run around the protections\nby a 'crisis' requiring 'drastic action'. It is most likely that in the\nfuture possession of secure encryption tools will be regarded as possession\nof 'terrorist and drug dealers tools', and be some serious Fedaral Felony.\nJust like common tools are 'burgular tools' if the police say so, common\ncomputer programs (even computers themselves) are now 'hackers tools',\nand will become 'terrorist tools'. BET ON IT.\n\nThe insights of someone who has lived throught this are very important.\nIf the US goes the way of the old Soviet Union and its client states\nas far as individual rights, privacy and overall freedom are concerned,\nthe rest of the world (remember 'New World Order'?) will not be far\nbehind - only a few years.\n\nPlease keep posting anything you find that is deficient or that threatens\nones rights in this thing.\n\nFor example, a conversation between a suspect and a lawyer will no longer\nbe private from Big Brother eavesdropping. Political dissent allready\nis very dangerous in this country, all it takes is the government to\ndecide that enough people will take one seriously, then one becomes\nguilty of 'plotting to overthrow the government by illegal means'. The\nphrase 'illegal means' is defined as whatever the government wants it\nto be defined as.\n\nCouple this with Clinton's pressing for a 'smart' National ID card (an\n'Internal passport'?), with the added wrinkle that anything about you and\nyour past can be put on it, and you can only take the government's\nword as to what is really on it (since they will be the only ones\nwith the means to completely read and reprogram the thing). Isn't\nthat nice?\n\nWhile the Feds can bust into one's safe without the keys, the owner\nknows his safe has been broken into. When they break into your 'secure'\nphone conversations (or other stored/transmitted data in the near future)\nyou have no way of knowing, so accountability as to the legalities has\ngone out the window. Just like a safe, if they have a legal cause, they\ncan get the keys from the suspect, just like they can get the keys to\na safe or the combination from the suspect. Same with encryption:\nRecord everything, get the warrants, THEN decode it with the keys\nobtained from the suspect.\n\nThis Clinton Cripple, along with its natural extensions, will make any\npriviliged communications between client and lawyer, and any meaningful\npolitical dissent virtually impossible. Which is the general idea.\nAny propeganda about its being secure, and the safeguards, and all\nof that are just that - propeganda to reassure people so they will\nby into this monstrosity. DON'T BE SUCKERED.\n\nBIG BROTHER IS LISTENING!!!\n\n\n", "I suspect that this clipper thing could backfire on the Gov in a\nbig hurry. I expect that products using these chips will socket them\nrather than soldering them, since once the keys are handed over by the\nescrow agencies, the chip is so much garbage, and will need to be\nreplaced. I expect that someone will come along with a pin compatible\nchip that uses secure encryption -- possibly even disguised so that it's\nnot possible to tell it from the clipper chip until you try to use the\n2 backdoor keys.\n\n If I were to manufacture such a chip, as part of my marketing\nstrategy, I would try to subvert one or both escrow agencies either\nthrough bribes or industrial espionage -- and then publicize the fact.\n(doing my best not to be connected with such activities -- which would\nlikely not be legal :-) Publicly discrediting the escrow agencies would\ngo quite far towards creating a market for a secure alternative.\n\n I also believe that someone will reverse engineer the clipper chip,\nand knowlege of the algorithm will likely be fairly widespread. Any back-\ndoors or weaknesses would further discredit the scheme, and help grow\nthe market demand for a secure alternative.\n\n I believe that the company that provides such an alternative will make\nfew friends in the LE community, but lots of money. I also believe that\nthe government will do it's best to make such plug replacements illegal.\nI expect that they will see the same success in limiting the availability\nof such alternatives as they have seen in limiting the availability of\ncertain illicit drugs -- ie. little to none.", "\n\tWhile I think it is unrealistic to suppose that the federal\nagencies will fail to promptly comply with a court order, there is \nstill a good point here. Local law enforcement will be unable to perform\na wiretap without bringing in federal agencies. Based on the (possibly\nincomplete) understanding of the system quoted from D. Denning, only the\nFBI will be able to decrypt the system key encryption layer, which seems\nto be needed even to identify what escrowed keys to request. This moves\na great deal of law enforcement power to the federal level.\n\tThe reason I like this point is that it may sway or even persuade\npeople who don't generally line up with the civil liberties crowd. A\nnational police force is opposed by people from a broad range of political \nviewpoints.\n", "\n > Clipper might be a good way to cover the use of another layer of\n > encryption.\n\n But, if you are making custom equipment in any case, why not just\nroll your own Clipper implementation and report the wrong keys to the\nEscrow agency? (Tells us who is going to be in the chip business if\nthis thing goes through--NSA, and those with something to hide from\nNSA.)\n\n If anyone can verify that your phone is not using the key registered\nto that serial number, either:\n\n 1) They have a court ordered wiretap. But what are they going to\ndo? Tell the judge that this individual really does have privacy?\nAll they know is that the keys are not enough, but not why.\n\n 2) They have a court ordered wiretap on a phone in this series.\n(This part is really scary. Since the \"expectation\" is that all\nchips in a particular batch will uses seeds based on the same S1 and\nS2 and the serial number, getting the keys for one of a batch may give\naccess to all.)\n\n 3) There is a backdoor which allows all messages to be deciphered\nwithout the keys. I find this one especially threatening since the\nscheme seems very open to known plaintext attacks. (What I need to\ndecipher is the data in the header. If I talk to someone who has one\nof these phones, presumably there will be an automatically negotiated\nkey generated. I'm not trying to decipher the record of the\nconversation to know what was said, I use it as a known plaintext to\nrecover the backdoor represented by the header, but I know what the\nheader says for conversations I participate in. Even worse, if the\nphones in a series have related keys, I can buy a phone/chip from the\nsame production lot. Then I can recover its keys, either elegantly by\ntalking to myself, or by brute force analysis of the actual chip, then\napply the key generation process with those seeds to find the target\nkeys.)\n\n Hmmm! I don't think I want to ever come close to these phones.\nEven DES is starting to look good. Two cans and a string will provide\nmuch better security.\n\n\n\n--\n\n\t\t\t\t\tRobert I. Eachus", "\nAnd if Richard Nixon had had this kind of toy, he wouldn't have had\nto send people into the Watergate.\n\nBut that's not really the issue. The real issue is whether this \nwill be used to justify a ban against individuals' use of private \n(i.e., anything else) encryption methods.\n\nUnrelated question...isn't the term \"Clipper,\" as neat as it is,\nalready taken by Intergraph?", "\nI totally agree. But how do you propose we take government back? They\nobviously don't listen to the people or want the people to know who is\nresponsibile for what (a person telnetted the site of the Clipper chip\nrelease, to see what the entity 'clipper' was, and got a few lists.\nBUt when another person tried a bit later, the commands were disabled)\nDoes not sound like an Administration that wants to have any accountability\nor information they don't control given to the people. The secret\ndevelopment and implimentation of the Clipper Chip decision further\nbacks that up. You can bet unaurhorized encryption methods and software\nwill be considered 'terrorist tools' and also subject to civil forfeiture,\nalong with the systems that are running it. YOU WATCH, SEE IF I AM WRONG.\n\nThe government is not going to be very cooperative about the people taking\nit back. And they have all the resources, unlimited access to the media\nfor propeganda, and almost all the guns (soon to be ALL the guns if\nClinton's agenda succeeds)... Those that do not play ball? Waco\nmight be a good example of what to expect... The warrant (just released)\nstated the reason for the raid was the BDs spent a very large sum\nfor weapons, over an undetermined amount of time. I don't recall\nspending a lot of money on guns, etc being illegal ... yet, that is.\n\nClinton might go down in history as the worst thing to ever happen to\nthe US of A. ... Now to be known as the 'Peoples Socalist Democratic\nRepublic of America' (PSDRA).\n\nBig Brother is LISTENING!!!\n\nHail Big Brother... (and Sister...?) only ten years late!!!\n", "\nThe same could be said for many other goverment agencies, but big budgets,\nlarge staffs, and long lead time haven't made many of them into models of\neffectiveness.\n\nThe fact is that those of us outside the inner circles have only James\nBamford's word that the people at the NSA use those legendary masses of\ncomputers for anything other than reading netnews, like many of us.\n\nThe NSA *doesn't* have an impressive record of accomplishments, at least\nnot a public record.\n", "\n . . . . .\n\n\nPlease don't be insulted, but based on this I would say that your\nencryption algorithm is very likely not worth the paper it's printed\non. If the NSA gave export approval, that means they felt confident\nthat they could crack it -- that's their JOB, mandated by LAW, and\nI'm sure they believe in what they do. If they gave export approval\nto an encryption algorithm which they weren't confident of being able\nto crack, they would be derelict in their sworn duty to monitor foreign\ncommunications for US national security related material.\n\nJust because many (most?) of us think that the government and the spooks\nare pugnacious slimeballs is no reason to lose sight of the fact that\nthey do their jobs to the best of their ability, and further that said\nability is rather high. I hope that one day we can make them all\nobsolete....... but until then, we have to cope with their existence.\nExport approvals are one thing they do that we can learn a lot from,\nfor example.\n", "I'd *desparately* prefer it if we didn't rehash the same arguments\nthat went on ad infinitum last time. That's especially true for\nsci.crypt. For that matter, I've created alt.privacy.clipper, since\nthe traffic is appearing in *many* different groups right now.\n\nI'm going to focus here on some technical aspects of the plan, hence my\nfollowup to sci.crypt. Frankly, if you're not an absolutist, your\nfeelings may turn on some of these issues. For example -- with an\n80-bit key, simply splitting it into two 40-bit pieces is much less\nacceptable than other schemes, because it means that if just one\nrepository is, shall we say, overly pliable, a would-be eavesdropper\nwould need to recover just 40 more bits of key. I need not point out\nin this newsgroup that that's pretty easy to do by exhaustive search.\nA slightly more complex scheme -- XOR-ing the key with a random number,\nand then with its complement -- would produce two 80-bit subkeys,\nneither of which is useful alone. That variant is much more resistant\nto attack. Clearly, one can get even more sophisticated, to protect\nthe subkeys even more.\n\nOther thoughts... Some people have noted the size and complexity of\nthe databases necessary. But the id strings the phones emit could be\ntheir back door key, double-encrypted with the escrow repositories'\npublic keys. For that matter, they could do that only with session\nkeys, and have no back door at all. In that case, the FBI would have\nto bring every intercept to the repositories to be decrypted. This\nwould answer many of the objections along the lines of ``how do you\nmake sure they stop''.\n\nWe can even combine that with a variant of the digital telephony back\ndoor -- have the switch do the tap, but with a digitally-signed record\nof the time, phone number, etc, of the call. That provides proof to\nthe escrow agents that the tap was done in compliance with the terms of\nthe warrant.\n\nI can suggest other variations, too. Suppose each Clipper chip had 100\npublic key pairs. Each would be used ~10 times, after which you'd need\nmore keying material. (Not a bad idea in any event.) This could be\nused to enforce time limits, or rather, usage limits, on each warrant;\nthe keys the repository agents would deliver wouldn't last for very\nlong.\n\nI suspect that the cryptographic algorithm itself is secure. Apart from\nthe obvious -- why push a weak algorithm when you've already got the\nback door? -- I think that the government is still genuinely concerned\nabout foreign espionage, especially aimed at commercial targets. This\nscheme lets the spooks have their cake and eat it, too. (I've heard\nrumors, over the years, that some factions within NSA were unhappy with\nDES because it was too good. Not that they couldn't crack it, but it\nwas much too expensive to do so as easily as they'd want.) They're keeping\nthe details secret so that others don't build their own implementations\nwithout the back door.", "What are the typical sizes for keys for commercial secret key algorithms?\nI know DES is 56 bits (\"tripple DES\" is 112 bits) and IDEA is 128 bits. Is\nthere anything made in the US that has 128 bit keys? Anything anywhere\nthat has larger keys? I've heard that RC2 can be scaled to arbitrarily\nlarge keys, but is this actually implemented anywhere?\n\nFinally, can anyone even concieve of a time/place where 128 bit keys aren't\nsufficient? (I certainly can't - even at a trillion keys a second, it\nwould take about 10 billion years to search just one billionth of that keys\nspace.)", "\nOh? Hellman said ``each user will get to choose his or her own key.''\nThat's the key which I called K_P, the session key. According to\nHellman, if Alice and Bob are communicating with the Clipper Chip,\nthen Alice chooses ``her own key'' and Bob chooses ``his own key.''\nThis is incompatible with the suggestion that when Alice and Bob are\ntalking, they use a _common_ K_P, chosen by classical or public-key\napproaches.\n\nThe protocol/key-management description published so far is either\nincomplete or incorrect. It leaves me with no idea of how the system\nwould actually _work_. I hope the CPSR FOIA request succeeds so that\nwe get full details.", " >there's no problem. The Feds don't care whose phone instrument is used, just\n >that the conversation is by the suspect on the tapped line. They get the\n >serial number, get the keys, and they are in business.\n\n So, you admit that Clipper opens the doors wide for the following scenario:\n\n FEDS: We need the keys to Joe Blow's phone.\n\n ESCROW AGENT: Joe Blow? You have a warrant to tap his line?\n\n FEDS: Well, no, but we have a warrant to tap Carlos \"Slime-Devil\" Gonzales'\n line, and our tap shows that Mr. Gonzales is using Mr. Blow's phone.", "Notwithstanding all the legitimate fuss about this proposal, how much\nof a change is it? ATT's last product in this area (a) was priced over\n$1000, as I suspect 'clipper' phones will be; (b) came to the customer \nwith the key automatically preregistered with government authorities. Thus,\naside from attempting to further legitimize and solidify the fed's posture,\nClipper seems to be \"more of the same\", rather than a new direction.\n Yes, technology will eventually drive the cost down and thereby promote\nmore widespread use- but at present, the man on the street is not going\nto purchase a $1000 crypto telephone, especially when the guy on the other\nend probably doesn't have one anyway. Am I missing something?\n The real question is what the gov will do in a year or two when air-\ntight voice privacy on a phone line is as close as your nearest pc. That\nhas got to a problematic scenario for them, even if the extent of usage\nnever surpasses the 'underground' stature of PGP.", "<>In this giant bally-ho over this Clipper chip I noticed a rather\n<>disturbing trend in some of the E-mail and posts I've tossing back and\n<>forth. \n<> [ ... deleted ... ]\nSomebody once said something like: \"Armed Violence is meant only to be\n<>used in response to an armed attack. It is not meant to be used in\n<>agression. This is the difference between self-defence and murder.\"\n<\nLet's try to avoid killing things, eh? There's enough blood shed in the\n<>world, without adding a couple of riots, Civil Wars, etc.\n<>\n<>I'm probably overreacting. But what I've read scared me a lot. I don't\n<>want my children growing up in a War Zone.\n<\n<\n, the agency itself is ranked in industry\npublications such as Govt Computer News as one of the worst caretakers of\nits computer resources. Recently, Prime Time Live did a long segment on\nthe USDA's computer troubles. They are making a concerted effort to change,\nbut intentions don't make a track record.", ": Does Dorothy Denning read this group? If not, is someone on the group\n: forwarding questions like these to her, or Martin Hellman, or anyone else\n: who's seen more details about the chip?\n\nOf course she does; it's just she's been toasted so often for being\nan NSA patsy that she's keeping her head down. You can always mail\nher directly as denning@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu,\ndenning@cs.cosc.georgetown.edu or denning@cs.georgetown.edu", "The recent discussion in this news group suggests that a key search attack \nagainst DES is quite feasible now. But normally DES is applied in CBC or CFB \nmode where one chooses a random init vector of 8 bytes. Questions:\n\n - Makes it sense to handle the init vector as an additional key? Then we have \na 56 + 64 = 120 bit key.\n \n - If yes: Is anything known about the security of this key scheme? Can we \nbreak it faster than by exhaustive search through the 120 bit key space?\n", "<: \n<: As a private citizen, I would feel much more \"secure in my person and\n<: papers\" knowing that an organization committed to individual civil\n<: liberties- the ACLU and the NRA come to mind- was safeguarding half of\n<: my key. Both the ACLU and the NRA are resistent to government pressure\n<: by the simple expedient fact that they are not supported, funded, or\n<: overtly controlled by the government.\n<: --------------------------\nFinally, because there is essentially no possibility of intercepting in\n >realtime the scrutable content of communications between stolen instruments,\n >there will exist strong motivation to record and archive _all_ communications\n >in the network for ex-post-facto scrutiny (once some criminal act is\n >discovered, and the instruments involved have been identified).\n\n\"All\" is a *very* big number. The AT&T Long Distance network has\naround 20,000 T3 trunks (45 Mbit/sec), which is on the order of 10**12 bits/sec.\nThat doesn't even count the amount of traffic in the LOCAL phone companies,\nor our long-distance competitors. It's about 200 Exabytes tapes / second,\nwhich is pretty large even for the NSA :-)\n\nOn the other hand, I can easily see them recording the traffic for\n\"interesting\" people, such as dissidents, suspected criminals,\nforeign telephone calls, and anybody noticed using encryption.\nAs Ken Shiriff speculates, recording encrypted traffic will probably\nbe judged not to be an invasion of privacy pretty soon ....", "\n\nWhat follows is my opinion. It is not asserted to be \"the truth\" so no\nflames, please. It comes out of a background of 20 years as a senior\ncorporate staff executive in two Fortune 50 companies.\n\nI'd be happy to use a crypto system supplied by the NSA for business, if\nthey told me it was more secure than DES, and in particular resistant to\nattempts by Japanese, French, and other competitive companies and\ngovernments to break.\n\nI'd be happy to do so even with escrowed keys, provided I was happy about\nthe bona fides of the escrow agencies (the Federal Reserve would certainly\nsatisfy me, as would something set up by one of the big 8 accounting firms).\n\nI'd trust the NSA or the President if they stated there were no trap\ndoors--I'd be even happier if a committee of independent experts examined\nthe thing under seal of secrecy and reported back that it was secure.\n\nI'd trust something from the NSA long before I'd trust something from some\nSwiss or anybody Japanese.\n\nThis may seem surprising to some here, but I suggest most corporations would\nfeel the same way. Most/many/some (pick one) corporations have an attitude\nthat the NSA is part of our government and \"we support our government\", as\none very famous CEO put it to me one day.\n\nJust some perspective from another point of view.\n", "With regard to your speculations on NSA involvement in the creation of\nPKP, I find that it fails the test of Occam's butcher knife. Never\nattribute to conspiracy what can be explained by forthright greed.\n", "\nOnce the chips are released (in phones, or whatever), they are vulnerable to \nphsyical inspection and observation. Now, I will grant that there will no \ndoubt be safeguards against \"peeling\" the chip, but the NSA has no monopoly \non cleverness. The chip, and the algorithms it uses, will not remain secret \nfor very long. Any university with a VLSI lab has the required equipment, as \ndoes any offshore semiconductor manufacturer.\n", ": WOULD WIRETAP CHIP BE COST-EFFECTIVE?\n\n: SUMMARY: Compared to an average monthly phone bill of sixty dollars,\n: wiretaps are only worth two cents a month to police. So the\n: proposed wiretap chip must raise phone costs by less than one part \n: in three thousand to be cost-effective. \n\nRobin's calculation is interesting and important, even if it's off by\nan order of magnitude (for example).\n\nEven if hardware costs for the Clipper Chip phones were ZERO, the\nprotocol overhead in transmitting the escrow field would be much\nhigher than the 1 part in 3 thousand...it depends on the exact details\nof the phone call length, protocol, etc. (shorter calls get a\nproportionately greater hit).\n\nHowever, I suspect most Americans will not find this line of reasoning\nas persuasive as the analogies about escrowing keys to one's house\nare.\n\n-Tim May\n\n", "\n\nHmm, here are a couple:\n\n1) If the algorithm becomes known, it will be easy to produce\npin-compatible non-crippled chips that provide -real- encryption and\nprivacy, because their keys are only in their users' hands.\n\n2) Since SkipJack is a symmetric key cypher, it needs some way to\nagree on a session key. The released information says that any\nprotocol may be used (e.g., DH). From a theoretical point of view,\nthis is probably true. However, from a practical point of view, those\nchips must have some kind of key exchange protocol built-in. What if\nit is good old RSA? This will mean that the producer will have to pay\nlots of bucks to PKP. By keeping the details secret this can be\navoided...\n\nRegards,\nVesselin", "I would think that you could reduce the defense of using non-clipper\nbased encryption technologies to defending freedom of expression \n(IE, free speech). That you have to right to express whatever you\nwant in whatever form your little heart desires so long as you do\nnot impinge on the rights of others.\n\nEncrypted text/sound/video is just another form of expression of that\nparticular text/sound/video. Just like digitized sound is another \nmeans of expression of sound -- streams of 100100101111 instead of\ncontinuous waveforms.\n\nAlso, it shouldn't be up to the government at all. Encryption \n_Standards_ can be decided upon by Independent Standards Orgainizations\n(apologies for the acronym). One can note how well this has worked\nwith ISO and the Metric System, SAE, etc. Independent entities \nor consortia of people/industries in that particular area are far\nmore qualified to set standards than any One government agency.\nConsider for example what the Ascii character set would have looked\nlike if it was decided by the government.\n\nI hope this helps folks to formulate their defenses. I'm still working\non mine and hope to be faxing my congressmen soon...", "There is an article in Communications Week (April 12's issue) which\nstates definitively that not only is the justice department trying to revive\nthe \"wiretapping bill\", but they are ALSO trying to find a way to force key\nregistration. CLIPPER is an obvious thrust in exactly this direction.\nDorothy Dennings is quoted in this missive.\n\nCommunications Week, April 12th, page 8. Read it and get peeved folks.\nThen ACT NOW or lose your fundamental right to privacy.\n\nClinton has shown us that his only interest in this has to do with abortion,\nand not the right of all citizens to be secure in their papers and effects.\n", " It is my intent to cut the government off at the knees with the pen\n(and keyboard). True, the lawyer and the lawbook only go so far, but\nI agree that it is best to use those resources to the maximum extent\nbefore seriously contemplating anything more... disruptive.\n\n", "Ever since Craig Rowland posted his piece \"New Encryption\"\nto sci.crypt there has been some discussion of our company,\nSecured Communications Technologies, Inc, and on encryption\nalgorithm, NEA.\n I spoke to Craig at length on 4/21/93 and we covered a lot\nof ground. Some of the information in the posting requires some\nclarification, and I would like to answer some of the questions\nraised on sci.crypt.\n SCT is a small company based in Silver Spring Maryland. Our\ntwo main products at this time are a PC based secure\ncommunications program called SECOM and a general purpose\nencryption chip which uses the NEA algorithm developed for SECOM.\n SECOM provides an encrypted secure communication link\nbetween two PC's connected over dial up telephone lines. It\nsupports simultaneous bi-directional file transfer and keyboard\nto screen \"chat\". It has its own proprietary communications\nprotocol which is tightly integrated to the encryption. All\nthough it is a packetized link, the data stream appears to be\ncontinuous because the packet boundaries are hidden.\n When SECOM was initially developed, it was implemented to\nuse DES encryption. A business decision was made to seek export\napproval for the product because it was perceived that the\noverseas market was a large one and provided a good marketing\nopportunity.\n We soon found out that we would NEVER be granted general\nexport approval for anything using DES. All though the reason\nfor this was never explicitly stated, it seems to have something\nto do with secret government to government agreements which are\nstill in effect.\n In any event, the decision was made to develop a new and\ndifferent algorithm which would take the place of DES. This was\nthe reason NEA (New Encryption Algorithm) was born.\n At this time NEA is being held as a trade secret. The\npreliminary work of patenting it has begun, and the plan is to\nmake it public once the patent process is complete. All though\none can make certain legal arguments for keeping it an ongoing\nsecret, I think in the case of an encryption algorithm it is\nnecessary to let people \"shoot at it\" over an extended period of\ntime to prove its worth.\n In order to get export approval for SECOM/NEA, it was\nnecessary to go through NSA and to reveal to them the details of\nthe program and algorithm. This was done only AFTER we had a\nfinished product to submit.\n Let me state unequivocally that there is NO \"back door\" to\nthe program or the algorithm. Secured Communications\nTechnologies is a closely held private company and\nNSA/FBI/CIA/NIST/WHATEVER has NO financial interest in any way\nwhatsoever with the company or any of the people involved.\n From a practical business standpoint, we are interested in\nselling chips and software (hopefully in large quantities) and a\nback door to the encryption, if found out, could destroy our\ncredibility and our business.\n With the encryption algorithm approved for export, we set\nout to talk to a number of potential customers for encryption\nproducts and systems. We were able to identify several common\nthreads of functionality requirements. This led to the design of\na chip with the encryption algorithm \"cast in silicon\" and\ncertain other capabilities added so that the chip could fulfill\nthe broad range of requirements that we identified.\n We are strongly opposed to the clipper/capstone chips. In a\npress release today, our president, Dr. Stephen Bryen stated:\n\n \"It seems as if the government has an unlimited source\n of funds to use to push its new bugged chips on the American\n Public. But do we not understand how the National Security\n Agency, which is not supposed to be involved in domestic\n spying, can fund the development of a commercial chip\n intended to accommodate U.S. government domestic spying\n activities.\"", "\n\tThen they'll probably also want to start tracking the customer\nlists of people purchasing SoundBlaster and similar boards, which can\nbe configured with the use of some code and a modem, to act as a pretty\ndecent digital-encrypting telephone. It's expensive, though, and kind\nof awkward. I don't know any drug lords, but I'm sure they'd favor\nsomething tappable over something secure as long as the user interface\nis nice.\n\n\tWhen you've got HRH Prince of Wales saying stupid things over\ncordless phones, it's not hard to imagine that drug dealers, child\npornographers, commies, LISP programmers, and other threats to the\ncivilized world might transact incriminating business over \"encrypting\"\ncellular phones.\n", "[... a bunch of well-meaning (maybe) cynnical text about screw-thread\n\tsizes, the rights of people to have their own standards,\n\tand the non-right of the gov. to regulate screw-threads...]\n\nWell, as funny as your little comment may seem, it has very little to\ndo with your personal privacy as a citizen, and about the governemnt\nbeing able to look at everything you have ever typed into a computer\nat one point or another.\n\nThis \"Clipper Chip\" stuff is the seeds for nightmares to make the \nNightmare on Elmstreet cheese-on-celluloid movies look like episodes\nof Mr. Roger's Neighborhood.\n\nIF the gov establishes a cryptography standard that has to be used by\neveryone, and everyone's personal key is divided into two segments\nand stored at two separate, albeit easy to find places, and that key is\nonly 80 bits to begin with, we are screwed (pardon the allusion to the \naffore-mentioned article)!\n\nthe gov, I believe, as do many others probably already have the cracking chips\nfor this Clipper Chip made. Hell, they probably based the encoder on the \nchip that cracks it, that way it's easier to break the code, but since it is a \nclassified algorythm, no one knows that they can crack it so easily.\n\nI, for one, and quite scared of this kind of thing, and plan to support \norganizations (and even disorganizations) who are fighting against this\nClipper Chip in any way that I can.\n\nI do not want the government to be able to have access, even with a search\nwarrant, to my keys... and I don't want those keys to be only 80 bits long\nto begin with!\n\n-nate sammons", "I have lurked here a bit lately, and though some of the math is\nunknown to me, found it interesting. I thought I would post an article I\nfound in the Saturday, April 17, 1993 Toronto Star:\n\n 'CLIPPER CHIP' to protect privacy\n\n Washington (REUTER) - President Bill CLinton announced yesterday a\nplan to plant a new \"Clipper Chip\" in every government telephone and\ncomputer line to prevent eavesdropping.\n\n Eventually the chips, developed by the government's National\nInstitute for Standards and Technology, would be used by commercial and\nprivate electronics communication users.\n\n The White House said that to assure privacy, each device containing\nthe encryption devices would be assigned two unique \"keys\" - numbers\nthat will be needed by government agencies to decode messages.\n\n The attorney-general has been assigned the task of arranging that the\nkeys are deposited in two \"key-escrow\" data bases. Access to them would\nbe limited to government officials with legal authorization to conduct a\nwiretap, the White House said in a statement.\n\n -30-\n\n\n Dan McKinnon", "\nDon Alvarez posted a good partial solution to this problem to\ncomp.risks. I'll present my variant on it instead, since I feel it's a\nbit stronger against some likely attempts to cheat. depends on the\nprotocol that's followed for reading traffic. Briefly, the cops get a\nwiretap warrant, and record the call. They then notice the encryption\nand the disclosure header. It, along with a copy of their warrant, is\nsent to the FBI, or whoever it is who holds the family key. The\nF-holder decrypts the header, and sends the serial number N and the\nencrypted session key U[K] to the escrow agents. They, in turn, use U1\nand U2 to recover K, and send that to the local police.\n\nNote how this solves the problem of wiretapping forever. Neither the\ncops nor the FBI ever see U, so they can't read other traffic. Every\nrequest must be validated by both the FBI and the escrow agents. The\ncops and the FBI together can't cheat, since they don't have U. (I\nregard that as a likely pairing of folks who might try to beat the\nsystem. It's to prevent this that I modified Alvarez's scheme.) The\nescrow agents can't read the conversation, since they don't have it;\nall they have is N and U[K]. And the police don't even see N.", "Greetings!\n\n Sorry for the typos.\n clipper hooks.\n Al\n", "\nI don't believe you, and I don't believe your friend.\n\nWhy? \n\nBecause DES is not known to have any known plaintext attacks readily\navailble. Unless your friend knows something and is keeping it secret,\nhe was bullshitting you.\n\nNow, it IS possible that he noted a weakness in the *implementation* of\nthe Kerberos protocol. For instance, using a weak RNG to generate keys\nmight cut down on the keyspace (not for the user keys -- for the other\nkind who's name I can't remember). However, this is not what was\nclaimed. You are claiming a general weakness in DES, which is not\nknown to exist in the open literature.\n\nDon't get me wrong -- DES is weaker than it should be. However,\ncracking it in 15 minutes requires more money be spent on the cracking\nmachine than ANY organization I know of has available.\n\n--\nPerry Metzger\t\tpmetzger@shearson.com", "\n [...]\n\nMaybe 300 such pairs suffice to reconstruct S1 and S2? By such a back-\ndoor (in the encryption algorithm perhaps) it would be possible (for \nthe manufacturer) to get the keys of all chips that were programmed in \none session. This would not, btw, enable anybody else to retrieve the \nkeys in the same way because they'll never get a bunch of 300 (N,U) \npairs with identical S1 and S2. (Note that these have to be constant \nfor the whole batch by the very nature of the procedure, i.e., they \nhave to be typed in manually by the `random number supplying agents'!)\n\nAnd I was wondering why they'll always do 300 chips in one session ... \nSince the procedure described by Ms Denning imposes high costs on the \nproduction of every chip (at least three persons for one hour each, \nplus the cost of a laptop finally blown to pieces in a spectacular, \nHollywood-like bonfire; add travelling expenses, drinks and lighting, \ndivide the sum by 300) there won't be a larger demand -- not from the \nprivate sector anyway. \n\nAnd let me mention one other thought that certainly has occurred to all \nthe notoriously paranoid people in this group before: Who is going to \nverify that _no_ interested party will perform tempest attacks on the \nvault?? \n\nWhere there's so much smoke and mirrors -- there can't be a nice, honest \nfire but something really worth hiding ... ", "\nUnless there has been a _major_ change in the law, there's no such beast\nas a \"classified patent.\" Patents exist to encourage communications and\ndevelop the state of the art. \n\n(The 17-year lock is a nuisance, but historically has been pretty trivial.\nIt's only in an industry which doubles performance every three years (or\n18 months, for some hardware) that 17 years is an eternity).\n\nThe same thing applies in civilian development: you can't patent something \n_and_ declare it a \"trade secret.\" However, you can (and should) mark all\nsoftware (including proprietary code) \"unpublished copyright\" so that it\never does get exposed you still have some legal protection.\n\n(Post-Berne this isn't required, since everything is \"born copyrighted.\"\nBut it takes a while for people to learn the new rules).\n", "It occurs to me that if they get a wiretap order on you, and the escrow\nhouses release your code to the cops, your code is now no longer secure.\n\nIt's in the hands of cops, and while I am sure most of the time they are\ngood, their security will not be as good as the escrow houses.\n\n\nWhat this effectively means is that if they perform a wiretap on you,\nat the end of the wiretap, they should be obligated to inform you that\na tap was performed, and replace (for free) the clipper chip in your\ncellular phone so that it is once again a code known only to the\nescrow houses.\n\nDo the police normally reveal every tap they do even if no charges are\nlaid? In many ways, it would be a positive step if they had to.\nJudges set time limits on warrants, I assume. At the end of the time\nlimit they should have to renew or replace your chip.\n\n\nThat's if we go with this scheme, which I am not sure I agree with.", "\nFirst of all, the chip doesn't do that. It runs at 16 megabits/second,\nwhich is far beyond what you need for voice. It's obviously intended\nfor data as well, and on high-speed lines at that.\n\nSecond -- what advantage is there to doing the processing in the phone?\nI don't care how fancy that chip is; it's not as fancy as the roomful\nof analyzers at Fort Meade running the program they'll have 5 years from\nnow. They can't update every Clipper chip that's out there.", "I don't wish to rehash the PGP patent issue at all, but I do feel\nthat some potential misconceptions in interpretting intellectual property\nlaws need to be raised.\n\n\nYou are correct that executing PGP would be a violation (unless the patent\nwere declared invalid by the courts), but... there is a question as\nto when, how, or if distributing PGP would be a violation. If the person\nor company distributing PGP receives money for doing so, then it is\nclearly a sale (for example, if it were on Compuserve, they charge you\nfor access so they would be selling PGP). When there is no charge for\nPGP things get less clear, but there would still be a reasonable view\nthat it is inducing an infringement.\n\n\nThis is a common misconception. The patent laws do not mention any valid\npurpose for infringing a patent. Although it is clear that in order to\ncreate a new invention either based on a prior patent or to avoid infringing\na prior patent, one must perform research on an existing patent. To\njust say that you infringed a patent (assume we're not talking the RSA\npatent) only for research purposes (wink wink, nudge nudge) and then never\ndevelop any related invention (ie. only use it), would be a clear\ninfringement.\n", "<> \n<> QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ABOUT THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION'S\n<> TELECOMMUNICATIONS INITIATIVE\n<> \n<> Q: Suppose a law enforcement agency is conducting a wiretap on\n<> a drug smuggling ring and intercepts a conversation\n<> encrypted using the device. What would they have to do to\n<> decipher the message?\n<> \n<> A: They would have to obtain legal authorization, normally a\n<> court order, to do the wiretap in the first place. They\n<> would then present documentation of this authorization to\n<> the two entities responsible for safeguarding the keys and\n<> obtain the keys for the device being used by the drug\n<> smugglers. The key is split into two parts, which are\n<> stored separately in order to ensure the security of the key\n<> escrow system.\n\nI apologize for being so dense but this sentence reads as if it\nwas lifted from a Luis Bunuel screenplay. Am I missing something?\nWhy on earth would drug smugglers even _use_ the device then?\nObviously, they'll be using something like triple encryption DES instead.\nAs long as alternatives to Clipper remain legal, Clipper accomplishes\nabsolutely nothing, ZERO, as far as law enforcement is concerned.\nThe whole scheme is an absolute, total, incredible, waste of government\ntime and money AS LONG AS other encryption schemes that are any good \nremain legal. In order for Clipper to work as intended all strong\ncryptosystems have to be outlawed.", "For example, I don't own a cordless phone. With Clipper, I would. If the \n local men in blue really want to listen to me talk to my friends or order \n pizza, I'm no worse off than I am now, and I don't have to worry about\n local kids or nosy neighbors.\nI do tend to agree. Sigh.\n\n So, where can I buy a DES-encrypted cellular phone? How much does it cost?\n\nOf course, if we didn't have government monopolies on cellular phone service,\nthere probably *would* be some available.\n\n > How can you reconcile the administrations self proclaimed purpose of \n > providing law enforcement with access to encrypted data without making \n > the clipper system the only crypto available in the U.S... ?\n The Second and Fourth Amendments do come to mind. \n\nThe Second Amendment is especially apt, given the ITAR definitions of\ncrypto equipment as munitions, and the gun-control people's increasing\nability to define things as \"assault weapons\" and make them illegal.\nTriple-DES is obviously used for \"assault phones\", while\nCripple will be legal, and Triple-Cripple may fall into the gray area\nof \"illegally upgrading to an assault phone\"...\n", "I don't know anything about this particular case, but *other*\ngovernments have been known to follow events on the Usenet. For\nexample after Tienanmien Square in Beijing the Chinese government\nbegan monitoring cyberspace. As the former Director of PeaceNet,\nI am aware of many incidents of local, state, national and\ninternational authorities monitoring Usenet and other conferences\nsuch as those on the Institute for Global Communications. But\nwhat's the big deal? You shouldn't advocate illegal acts in this\nmedium in any case. If you are concerned about being monitored,\nyou should use encyrption software (available in IGC's \"micro\"\nconference). I know for a fact that human rights activists in the\nBalkan-Mideast area use encryption software to send out their\nreports to international organizations. Such message *can* be\ndecoded however by large computers consuming much CPU time, which\nprobably the Turkish government doesn't have access to.", "<\n<> Here's a simple way to convert the Clipper proposal to an unexceptionable\n<> one: Make it voluntary.\n<\n That is--you get high quality secure NSA classified technology if you agree\n<> to escrow your key. Otherwise you are on your own.\n<\n<\"Secure\"? How do you know? Because NSA is trying to make you believe it?\n<\"Trust us.\" Yeah, right.\n<\n<\"Otherwise you are on your own\"? How do you know that tomorrow they\n Vogt-Koelln-Strasse 30, rm. 107 C\n\tThe algorithm is classified because a military contract (or similar\n >government equivalent to military) has been let for this \"proprietary\"\n >design that the Feds say that NSA developed. Is there a patent? Is that\n >patent publicly available? My betting is that that too is classified.\n\n Unless there has been a _major_ change in the law, there's no such beast\n as a \"classified patent.\" Patents exist to encourage communications and\n develop the state of the art. \n\nWhile there aren't classified patents, there are \"patent secrecy orders\".\n\nSuppose you invent a voice scrambler for CB radio, and apply for a patent.\nThe Patent Office decides the NSA might be interested, gives them a copy\nof your application, and you get a nice note back saying your patent\napplication has now been classified for national security reasons and\nyou're no longer allowed to make and sell it. \nI'm picking this example because it happened in the late 1970s.\nIt was probably some analog scrambler, and would have probably\nviolated FCC rules anyway, but it did get classified.\n\nOr suppose you publish a paper on your Really Spiffy Algorithm and\nthen file a patent application. Since it's been published,\nthey can't gain anything by classifying it, though you can't get\npatents in most countries other than the US, where patent laws are different.\n\nObviously a system of classified patents would be highly bogus\n\"You can't sell that widget, because there's a classified patent on it.\nYou're not allowed to see the patent, or know who owns the design,\nso just give us all your money and work in progress and maybe we won't throw\nyou in jail for espionage.\" Some countries might have that kind of\nsystem :-(, but we don't have that here. Quite. Yet.", " Once it hits land you can record it if you have telco access. The\n telco isn't supposed to give that without a warrant. That's the rule today.\n\n But even so, the evidence would not be admissible, I think, unless the\n judge so ordered. I think that even interception of the crypttext\n without a warrant would be illegal. Cops can't record today's plain\n cellular calls and then ask a judge, \"Hey, can we have permission to\n listen to those tapes?\" can they?\n\nHow long do you think it will be before it becomes legal for the\npolice to record encrypted conversations \"It's not violating your\nprivacy because we can't read the encryption without a warrant\", with the usual\ngood-faith exception if they accidentally record a non-encrypted conversation.\n\nBesides, it's covered by the Drug Exception to the Fourth Amendment...", "\nAfter IBM had invented the DES and the NBS had advertised for proposals,\nbut before IBM had decided to respond, I argued strenuously that they \nshould not; they should keep it proprietary. \n\nThe biggest proponent of proposing was Dr. Lewis Branscomb. Dr. Branscomb\nwas the IBM Chief Scientist and had come to IBM from NBS. Fortunately\nfor all of us, Dr. Branscomb understood the answer to the above question\nmuch better than I. He realized how difficult it would be to gain\nacceptance for any cryptographic mechanism. Because of the necessary\ncomplexity, publicity would not be sufficient and neither would \nauthority. In fact, it has taken both of those plus more than 15 \nyears.\n\nWe have also had independence. The DES was solicited by NBS, invented\nand proposed by IBM, and vetted by NBS. It has also been examined and\nvetted by experts like Adi Shamir, who are not subject to influence by\nany of these.\n\nEven now, there are still people posting on this list who do not trust\nthe DES in spite of all the time, all of the analysis, and all of the\npublic scrutiny.\n\n(Of course, it is just this point that NIST misses when it attempts to \ngain acceptance for a novel mechanism, developed in secret, on the basis\nof authority alone.)\n\nWe had a long thread here about whether or not the NSA can \"break\" the\nDES. That is a silly question. At some cost and in some time they\ncan \"break\" anything. The important question is at what cost and in\nwhat time.\n\nThe fundamental strength of the DES and RSA are not nearly so important\nas what we know about their strength. As long as we understand the\ncost and duration for an attacker, then we can use them in a safe way.\nAt this point, we may never replace either because of the inability of\nany successor to overcome this knowledge gap.\n\nDES and RSA are among the most significant inventions of the century\nand the most important inventions in the history of cryptography.\nWe are damned lucky to have them.", "I don't think mr. Clinton can even understand the technical details of\n\tthe clipper encryption scheme. So, his \"assurances\" are of no value at\n\tal, if he gives them he just says what a panel of experts(?) told him.\n\tIf I lived in the USA, I would hope those experts were not paid by the\n\t.\n\n\"The doctrine of plausible deniability\". No-one is going to tell him\nit has a back door. The NSA will assume he has the sense to work it out\nfor himself or they wouldn't be pushing it. Clinton might even *believe*\nthe NSA when they tell him, for the record, it doesn't have a back door.\n\nAnd no FOIA request in the world will ever find it. These guys don't\nplay by that set of rules. They have their own rule book, and no, you're\nnot allowed to see that either.", "\n\nThis actually supports Bill's speculation - IF there is a backdoor in\nRSAREF and IF PKP is supported secretly by the NSA, then it is more\nthan natural that they will welcome ANY public-key implementation that\nuses RSAREF and will strongly oppose themselves against ANY\nimplementation that doesn't.\n\nI personally cannot see how one could put a backdoor in a\nlong-precision modular arithmetic library that comes in source, but,\nof course, the fact that -I- cannot see it means nothing...\n\nRegards,\nVesselin", ": [deletions]\n: \n: > How can you reconcile the administrations self proclaimed purpose of \n: > providing law enforcement with access to encrypted data without making \n: > the clipper system the only crypto available in the U.S... ?\n: \n: The Second and Fourth Amendments do come to mind. \n: \n\nI think i heard someplace (misc.legal?, comp.org.eff.talk?) that the courts\nhave pretty much eliminated the fourth amendment already.\n", "I have been scanning and trying to read the articles in the sci.crypt area,\nbut what do I get? SURPRISINGLY, the blurb comes upon the screen \" file xxx\nhas either been cancelled or expired. Now I ask you, If it expired,\nwouldn't it be out of the available file cache?\nI am 32 and not a paranoid, but the older I get, the greater my cynicism of\nboth federal and state governments becomes. \nThe censorship of this Internet (and it is no less than censorship [stupid me, it's the GOVT.])\nis ridiculous. The Japanese have far outstripped our ciphertechnology, and \nour government is now, before your very observant eyes, trying to force the\n\"crypto standard\" onto a framefork where the \"standard\" is now an ancient\nrelic in terms of modern Japanese security techniques.\n\n\nNow, I pose the question: Why censor folks on the net and send the warning\nshown above (\"cancelled or expired\") when it would be wiser to not let people\nsee the post at all??\n\n\nWhich Article of the Constitution gives me the right of revolution if things\nseem to be going cockeyed??\n\n\nHmmm...", "Here is a disturbing thought.\n\nNow, we no longer live in the days of big filing cabinets. We live in\nthe electronic age. I asked myself, how big could the escrow database\nget? How hard might it be to steal the whole thing, particularly were\nI an NSA official operating with the tacit permission of the escrow\nhouses? (We can pretend that such will not happen, but thats naive.)\n\nWell, lets see. Ten bytes of each escrow half. Lets asume ten bytes of\nserial number -- in fact, I believe the serial number is smaller, but\nthis is an order of magnitude calculation. We assume 250*10^6 as the\npopulation, and that each person has a key. I get five gigabytes for\neach of the two escrow databases. Fits conveniently on a single very\nvaluable Exabyte tape. This can only get easier with time, but who\ncares -- I can already hold all the clipper keys in the country in my\npocket on two 8mm tapes.\n\nAdmittely, they will think of safeguards. They won't put the whole\ndatabase on one disk, prehaps. Maybe they will throw stumbling blocks\nin the way. This changes nothing -- they keys will be needed every day\nby hundreds if not thousands of law enforcement types, so convenience\nwill dictate that the system permit quick electronic retrieval. At\nsome point, with or without collusion by the agencies, those exabyte\ntapes are going to get cut. Dorothy Denning and David Sternlight will\ndoubtless claim this can't happen -- but we know that \"can't\" is a\nprayer, not a word that in this instance connotes realism.\n\nWith two exabyte tapes in your pocket, you would hold the keys for\nevery person's conversations in the country in your hands. Yeah, you\nneed the \"master key\" two -- but thats just ten bytes of information\nthat have to be stored an awful lot of places.\n\nCome to think of it, even if the NSA getting a copy of the database\nisn't a threat to you because unlike me you have no contraversial\npolitical views, consider foreign intelligence services. You know, the\nones that David Sternlight wants to protect us from because of the\nevil industrial espionage that they do. The French apparently do have\na big spying operation in friendly countries to get industrial\nsecrets, so he isn't being completely irrational here (although why\nour companies couldn't use cryptosystems without back doors is left\nunexplained by those that point out this threat.) \n\nPresumably, foreign intelligence services can get moles into the NSA\nand other agencies. We have proof by example of this: its happened\nmany times. Presumably, someday they will get their hands on some\nfraction of the keys. You can't avoid that sort of thing.\n\nDon't pretend that no one unauthorized will ever get their hands on\nthe escrow databases.\n\nWe crypto types are all taught something very important at the\nbeginning of intro to cryptography -- security must depend on the\neasily changed key that you pick to run your system, and not on a\nsecret. The escrow databases aren't the sorts of secrets that our\nteachers told us about, but they are the sort of big secrets they\nwould lump into this category. Imagine trying to replace 100 million\nClipper chips.\n\nI cannot believe that the NSA or whomever it is thats doing this\ndoesn't realize all this already. They are too smart. There are too\nmany of them who have made their bones in the real world. I suspect\nthat they know precisely what they are doing -- and that what they are\ndoing is giving us the appearance of safety so that they can continue\nto surveil in spite of the growth of strong cryptography. I suspect\nthat they realize that they can't put things off forever, but they can\ntry to delay things as long as possible.\n\nWho knows. Maybe even some of the higher ups, the inevitable\nbureaucratic types that rise in any organization, really do believe\nthat this scheme might give people some security, even as their\nsubordinates in Fort Meade wring their hands over the foolishness of\nit all.\n\n--\nPerry Metzger\t\tpmetzger@shearson.com", ": What if clipper is fairly secure but leaves a distinct clipper signature...\n: that is, what if it's not too difficult to tell that a msg. was clipper\n: encrypted, even if you can't tell the contents? In that case, anyone \n: who is trying to hide behind anther encryption scheme will stand out\n: from all of the other traffic and raise a red flag to the NSA, etc.\n\nI think the obvious answer (which may have been posted, but I haven't\nseen it) is to encrypt your data with some other scheme, then run it\nthrough clipper. The only way the police will be able to detect the\nother encryption is through a wiretap, so even if they do notice with\nan illegal wiretap, I have a hard time seeing a judge issuing a\nwarrant for a search to \"confiscate\" the illegal scheme (assuming that\nat one day, it comes to this; a worse case) based on an illegal\nwiretap. Then again, maybe I am an idealist. :>\n\n: \t------------ -------- ----------------------\n: \tBen Liberman INTERNET ben@genesis.MCS.COM\n: \t ben@tai.chi.il.us\n", "\nAgreed. Remember, I don't even think of Clipper as encryption in any real \nsense--if I did, I'd probably be a lot more annoyed about it.\n\n\nThat's not for Clinton (or anyone under him) to say, though. Only the \nfederal and supreme courts can say anything about the constitutionality.\nAnything the administration or any governmental agency says is opinion at \nbest.\n", " I have that book, and the way I read it is, one side of the\nconversation MUST be from outside the United States.\n Of coures, that ASS U MEs that the NSA plays by the rules...\n ", "\nI don't think they're paying for it.\n\n\nUseful? I find his estimate of the annual value to law enforcement\nof $5 million quite useful, if rough (e.g. wiretaps may be\npreferentially used on otherwise-hard-to-catch criminals, resulting\nin an underestimate). This comes to twenty cents a head over the\nU.S. population. I would find some rigorous numbers on this quite\nuseful -- it would make for nice slogans: \"Your privacy is worth\n$0.37\", or whatever it turns out to be.\n", "\n\nExactly what would that show, ?! the \"law enforcement block\" is easy to\ncreate, given the Government key and any serial number. \n\n\n*IF* it comes to trail about the wiretap.... ya, some safegaurd that is.\nWhat if they just harass people as a result, or learn things they shouldn't\nhave learned, etc? \n\n\nThe whole point of the Escrow system is to prevent the FBI from making \nillegal wiretaps. Why not have the FBI holds the\nkeys and that's it? Why do we need the escrow system at all?\n\nUnless a 3rd party (a judge) verifies that the requested serial number\nis \"right\", and the FBI can get any key they like at anytime, the escrow\nsystem is useless.", " \n It was implied in the first technical posting by Dorothy Denning that the\nFBI would do the decryption *for* the law enforcement agencies. It wasn't\nclear to me from the post whether this would be done in realtime or not, or\nwhether the FBI would just decrypt the session keys for the locals, or would\ndo the whole message.\n \n One thing I'm a bit puzzled by: Why aren't they doing this with a public\nkey scheme of some sort? You could generate two uniqe public/private pairsor\nfor each chip. Then, escrow the private keys with the escrow agencies. Set\nthe protocol up to encrypt the session key with both public keys. To decrypt\na message, both escrow agencies (in the right order, for most PK schemes)\nhave to decrypt with the escrowed private key. This way, there wouldn't be\nthecconcern that, once the police had asked fo a warrant/wiretap, they\nwould have your key forver.", "\nI do not think they can use the eavesdropping as evidence at all. However,\nusing the info they gather while listening, they can go searching THE right\nplace and find good, strong evidence, which they can use in court. \n\nQuestion : currently, it is easy to wire-tap, from the technical point of\nview, at least. Anybody using the appropriate radio receiver can listen\nto communications between a car-telephone and the ground station. The police\nalso, obviously. The clipper chip will make it much more difficult for the\nnon-authorized person to eavesdrop (note that I DO NOT write << impossible>> ).\nThe privacy will thus improve from the current situation. Poeple who REALLY\nhave something to hide already DO NOT use the phone to speak of these things.\nIf an illegal operation is really worth, one can afford having critical data\ncarried by a person rather than sending it electronically. \nThe clipper chip will not change this. \n\nThe problem is more politic. Foreign countries will never accept the clipper\nchip is the access to the escrow cannot be directly granted to their own\npolice following their OWN law, not the US law. i.e. each country will have\nits own escrow. How then will it be possible to monitor the international\ntraffic? or, will encrypted international traffic be possible ? or will there\nbe an international escrow, some kind of U.N. thing ?\n\nForbidding crypted communication is impractical: how is it possible to spot\na crypted communication in the thousands of megabytes of data which circulate\non the various existing networks. What about private networks ? And this will\nbe more and more impossible as the volume of electronic traffic will increrase\nin the next years.\n\nI think that the clipper chip can only be an interesting device to limit the\nrisk of , for instance, one's girlfriend's husband listening to his wife's\ncommunications. It will bring no more as regards to security. Is it worth ?\nI think so if its cost is limited, I think that many privacy invasions are done\nnot only by official services, but also by private entities. The clipper can\nhelp reducing these. Provided we do not hope too much of it, it is not a real\ndanger and it can be helpful.", "\nPresumably, the key split is so that no one group controls the privacy\nof the key, and that it would be infeasible to illicitly gain access from\nboth agents.\n\nHowever, if one agent wishes to break the crypto without the cooperation\nof the other agent, a 40-bit key is not going to stand in the way of a\nbrute force attack. If an agency (for example, the NSA) were to hold one\nof the two key-halves, then I don't imagine they really need the other half of\nthe key to start listening in.\n\nOr was that the point? \n\n\n(This is not to imply, at all, that I like the idea of the rest of the\nsystem.)", "\"The security of the system should depend only on the secrecy of\nthe keys and not on the secrecy of the algorithms\" -- Dorothy Denning", "My thoughts on why the algorithm is secret :\n\n The chip is (regretably) likely to become a standard. There will\n be many applications where economic factors dictate use of this\n chip, like it or not.\n\n If the alrogithm is public, and the code is as secure (absent the \n access to escrowed keys) as represented, an enterprising sort \n would make \"compatible crypto chips for which no key had been\n escrowed\". This is likely what the release was refering to when \n they refered to the secrecy of the algorithm protecting the\n security of the escrow system.", "\nTrue, but the basic idea behind any communications security system is not\nto absolutely deny access, but to make access more expensive (in time,\nmoney, manpower) than it is worth.\n", "\n\n[ ... ]\n\n\n\n[ ... ]\n\n\nOne very interesting thing I notice about this is that the only use of\nthe chip key is to encode the session key for the law enforcement field.\nIt is not used at all by the encryption algorithm.\n\nIt seems like it would be possible to create a device that would be\notherwise compatible, but would send out a bogus law enforcement field.\nThis might render the device unusable with \"normal\" devices if there's\nsome sort of validation involving the law enforcement field, but it\ncould certainly be used with other such modified devices.\n\nOf course, this is irrelevant if the NSA has a backdoor in the\nalgorithm, but it does make it possible to defeat the key escrow system.\n", "Being a browser of this group for some time,\n and being very concerned about the clipper chip proposal,\n I am hoping someone with more knowledge can help out.\n\nWho would be the most influential people to write to, protesting \nthe obvious next step hinted at by this proposal ?\n (Heads of what committees, etc.)\n\nWhat are the major flaws in the plan ?\n (From a cryptological standpoint)\n\n", "\nFalse, as federal courts have affirmed on many occasions. This is getting \nout of sci.crypt territory, though...\n", "From: Marc VanHeyningen \n\n\tThe majority of the discussion involving this \"Clipper Chip\" seems to\n\tpertain to the encryption of telephone conversations. Does anyone\n\tknow if that means this chip is designed to work primarily with analog\n\tsignals? The language sort of suggests this, but it's hard to say.\n\nI'd lay a few bucks that its just data-in-data-out in parallel. I suspect\nto make it a phone you'd need a codec and speech compression. There would\nbe a loss of bandwidth on the speech signal, which I suspect would scupper\nany of the suggestions I've seen here about putting a different encryption\nfront end on it.\n\nThere's no hint of any modulation scheme in the docs. I'm sure it's purely\na digital chip. The back end will come later, but I'm *positive* it won't\nbe left to the manufacturers - they all have to be the same modulation\nscheme to make it easy for the NSA to tap them.\n\nThe only other possibility is that this is intended only for ISDN phones.\n(Puts a whole new spin on EFFs obsession about ISDN if true, bwahahaha! ;-) )", "\nThe problem with \"Let's assume\" reasoning is that, taken to the extreme\n(and you're close), you arrive at \"Let's assume this is perfectly OK.\"\n\nThe assumptions you make are big ones. If the system is really secure, then\nwhy does the government have to keep the algorithm secret? There are plenty\nof encryption algorithms that don't depend upon nondisclosure to be secure,\nso why in the world use one that does? There are reasons, of course, but\nI certainly can't think of any honest ones.\n\nNext, you assume we can \"trust\" the escrow houses. But the last time I checked,\nEVERY SINGLE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT has experienced unauthorized disclosure,\ncorruption, and even fabrication, of supposedly secure data. The govt is\nsaying \"Yeah, but NOW we're serious, so you can trust us.\" Bullcrypt. \n\nAnd finally, although you didn't state it explicitly, you implicitly assume\nthat the warrant mechanism in this country is safe and reasonable. The case\nin Ventura County of a man shot and killed by officers serving a deliberately\nfraudulant warrant tells me that the govt has a long ways to go on this\nscore.\n\nRemember that all this is to catch the drug dealers, right? As others\nhave pointed out, the current proposal will, if deployed, render truly secure\nencryption much more expensive and inconvenient than Uncle Sam's brand.\nWho will be able to afford, and be sufficiently motivated, to purchase this\nexpensive, inconvenient higher protection? Somebody with lots of extra\ncash...\n\nThe following is more true than ever:\n\n \"When [strong] encryption is outlawed, only outlaws will have [strong]\nencryption.\"\n", "From: pmetzger@snark.shearson.com (Perry E. Metzger)\n\n\n\t Each chip includes the following components:\n\n\t the Skipjack encryption algorithm\n\t F, an 80-bit family key that is common to all chips\n\t N, a 30-bit serial number\n\t U, an 80-bit secret key that unlocks all messages encrypted with the chip\n\n\tHmmm. A thirty bit serial number. And, we are told, the unit key U is\n\tderived deterministically from this serial number. That means that\n\tthere are only one billion possible unit keys.\n\nOh hell, it's *much* worse than that. You think they'll ever make\nmore than a million of them? Serial numbers aren't handed out at random\nyou know, they start at 1 and work up... Call it a 20 bit space maybe.", "\nI wouldn't trust Mitre for another reason: \nremember \"The Cuckoo's Egg\"? How great was\ntheir security, eh?\n\nNSA - well, with the list of known \"turncoats\",\ndoes it make you wonder how many more unknown \nstill are there?\n\n(:-) (:-(\n-- \nRegards,\nUri. \t uri@watson.ibm.com\t scifi!angmar!uri ", "[...]\n\nI don't claim to be a crypto analyist... there isn't a whole lot of good\nliterature on the subject, and the best people don't seem to publish\ntheir work :) but I rather doubt the approach such folks use is brute\nforce (sorry to have implied that in my previous post). The history\nof these things is folks find clever ways of limiting the search and\nbang from there.\n\nI guess my real problem with Skipjack is I can not believe NSA would\nmake publicly available a system they couldn't break if they wanted...\nit just isn't in their charter. Remember DES came from IBM, not NSA\nand, when first published, was given a useful life of 20 years... I think\nwe are well past that point now :(\n\nRemember, based on the size of the NSA budget, they spend a lot more\non the technology of decryption than most computer companies spend on\nR&D. I have to imagine their stuff is real interesting...\n\nA friend who once worked for them (he is dead now) said he always enjoyed\nmonitoring SAC's (Strategic Air Command) crypto traffic :) and I rather\nsuspect that stuff is a bit more complex than Skipjack (Or was it the\nmilitary got the stuff from the NSA just like we get Skipjack from them ;)\n[BTW, folks, NSA wasn't being given the keys. And the Walker spy case\nshows for some of the systems, the KGB didn't need them either.]\n", ": Clipper Chip is a response to the fact that there is no business\n: or professional body in a position to establish a standard and\n: provide chipsets to implement it for analog or digial transmission\n: systems.\n: \n: RSA might be in position to do it, if they had active cooperation of\n: a couple of manufacturers of cellular phones or desktop phones.\n.......\n: Is RSA independt of the gov enough to spearhead this? I, for one,\n: would *gladly* pay royalties via purchasing secure phones.\n\n\nHear hear! I completely agree that we need to work quickly to\nestablish alternatives to the government's Clinton Clipper. As Brad\nTempleton and others have noted, once the Clipper becomes ensconced in\nenough phones there will be enormous pressure to make it the *legal*\nstandard, and it will become the \"market* standard as well. (There is\na lot of confusion in the proposal about whether the use of Clipper is\nmandated, about whether non-escrow alternatives will be allowed, etc.)\n\n(There are also unclear issues about how hard, or how illegal, it will\nbe to make \"workalikes\" which meet the standard but which generate\nphony or untappable keys...I'm sure the next several weeks will see\nthese issues thrashed out in this and other groups.)\n\nMeanwhile, I'd be interested to hear RSA Data Security's reaction.\nOften criticized in this group for their licensing policies (the usual\ncomplaints about MailSafe costing too much, at $125 or so, and the\ngeneral issue of software patents...), we may find that *allying*\nourselves with RSA is the best thing we can do. What's a mere\nlicensing fee when our liberty may be at stake? (If everyone who\nwanted true security paid, say, $100 for a lifetime use of all of\nRSA's patents--which expire in the period 1998-2002, or so--then RSA\nwould make tons of money and be happy, I'm sure. A small price to pay.\nFor those to whom $100 sounds like too much, I'm sure the actual terms\ncould be different, spread out over several years, whatever. To me,\nit's a small price to pay.)\n\nStrong crypto means strong privacy. Escrowing keys, sending copies of\nkeys to large databases, and splitting keys into two 40-bit pieces,\nall done with secret and non-analyzable protocols and algorithms, is\n*NOT* strong crypto!\n\nWhatever some of us may think about the abstract principles of\npatenting number theory applications, this minor issue pales in\ncomparison with the potential dangers of the Clipper proposal (note\nthat I said \"potential\"...we'll presumably learn more in the coming\nmonths).\n\nThe RSA algorithms are at least public, have been analyzed and\nattacked for years, and source code is available (to better ensure no\ndeliberate weakenesses or trapdoors).\n\nI know of a number of groups putting together voice encryption systems\nusing off-the-shelf hardware (like Soundblaster boards for the PC) and\nCELP-type software. The new generations of PCs, using fast 486s and\nPentiums are fast enough to do real-time voice encryption. Combined\nwith Diffie-Hellman key exchange, this should provide an alternative\nto the Clipper system.\n\nOf course, we don't really know if the Administration proposes to\noutlaw competing systems. (It seems to me that their goal of tapping\nterrorists, child pornographers, and Hilary bashers would be thwarted\nif low-cost alternatives to Clipper proliferated. Not to defend child\npornographers or terrorists, but limiting basic freedoms to catch a\nfew criminals is not the American way of doing things. End of soapbox\nmode.)\n\nI suggest we in these groups set aside any differences we may have had\nwith RSA (and don't look at me....I have both MacPGP *and* a fully\nlegal copy of \"MailSafe\"!) and instead work with them as quickly as we can.\n\nRSA?, Jim?, are you listening?\n\n-Tim May\n\nP.S. I reserve the right to retract these opinions if it should turn\nout that RSA Data Security was involved in the Clipper proposal.", "\n\n >But is it any worse than the current unsecure system? It becomes much\n >worse, of course, if the government then uses this \"Clinton Clipper\"\n >to argue for restrictions on unapproved encryption. (This is the main\n >concern of most of us, I think. The camel's nose in the tent, etc.)\n\n Excuse me? This has *already* happened. There's a couple of humps in\n the tent already. Ask the folks at Qualcomm what became of the\n non-trivial encryption scheme they proposed for use in their CDMA\n digitial cellular phone standard? There *already* are restrictions in\n place.\n\nYou have it slightly wrong. They dumped the encryption system because\nthey could not export it -- not because they could not produce it for\nU.S. use. There are no legal restraints on citizen use of strong\ncryptography -- yet.\n--\nPerry Metzger\t\tpmetzger@shearson.com", "The Clipper Chip will have no effect. Current generation PCs, portable\nand desktop, all have analog voice -> digital voice and vice versa\ncapabilities. So, I only need a modem output to the telephone,\nand I can interpose any encryption screen on my voice traffic I want.\n\nNot even a big deal, but it will pass muster if the have a way\nof checking whether I am using their Clipper Chip encryption without\na full decoding.\n\nI have been chided for stating that Dorthy Denning was intellectually\ndishonest in the ACM debate and in this newsgroup. I have previously\nrefrained from suggesting that she is arguing on behalf of consulting\nclients.\n\nNow, I say that it is clear that Dorthy Denning has been functioning\nas a lobbyist, not a computer scientist. She has used legal ethics\n(truth is what you can convince anyone of), not scientific ethics\n(truth is understanding the external world).\n\nMaybe we can revoke her ACM membership? 8)\n\nLew", "\nThat is not true, with chosen plaintext attacks DES keys can be determined\nwithout the full search.\n\n\nI am not willing to take that bet.\n\n\nYou can obviously shove arbitrary data through your chip......\nAs for the key, it is stated that the sesion key exchange is external to\nthe chip, so I can pick my keys too.\n\n\nBING BING BING BING BING, THAT EXACTLY MY POINT, SINCE WE CANT KNOW THAT\nTHEY DO NOT HAVE THIS CAPABILITY, THE ONLY SAFE ASSUMPTION IS THAT THEY\nDO... i admit that most of my cryptographic complaints are probably\nunfounded, but since we cant know one way or the other, im not gonig to\ntake their word for it....\n\n\nOh come on, thats like saying you could evaluate DES without the S-box\nconstants.....", "\n\nIMHO, encryption is (also) protected under the SECOND amendment of\nthe Constitution of the United States.\n\n\n\nI am not surprised that this administration is doing this.\nI could have told you so.\n\n\n\nPrivacy has ALWAYS been something that has the effect of restricting\nout ability to prosecute criminals. We are supposed to have the\npresumption of innocence.\n\nI have the right to pull the curtains over my windows and close my\ndoor, and the police may not come in. If I perform a crim in my home,\nthey will have to find out by means other than simply looking.\n\nEncryption is to my data as the window curtains are to my home.\nSimple enough?\n\n\n\nAnd yet the people vote for these people because they come out a lie\nto them about promising to fix things.\n\n\n\nYou mean they might have to go back to actually WORKING to do their job?\nOh heavens.\n\n\n\nPerhaps the FIRST amendment. Definitely the SECOND and FIFTH.\n\n\n\nUnfortunately, the vast segments of the population are misinformed.\nThey just haven't appended -SR to the name of out country, yet.\n\n\n\nI seriously doubt that the NSA thinks that privacy and surveillance are\ncompatible. I doubt of any smart person in any other agency thinks\nso, either. The PROBLEM is that they simply hold PRIVACY to be of no\nvalue at all.", "\n\tNot to pick on Mr. May in particular, of course, but isn't this\nkind of the domino theory? When one little country falls, its neighbor\nwill surely follow, and before you know it, we're all mining salt\nin Siberia for not turning in our Captain Crunch Secret Decoder Rings.\n\n\tSurely the hypothesis relying on the least wild assumptions is\nto take this at face value. Our lads at the fort were asked to cook up\nsomething that's pretty secure, with a key that can be escrowed neatly,\nand they did. The government plans to sell this thing, for the reasons\nthey state. Yes, those evil guys in the FBI can probably, with some\neffort, abuse the system. I got news for you, if the evil guys in\nthe FBI decide they want to persecute you, they're gonna, and you're\ngonna hate it. Fact is, the FBI doesn't want to listen to your phone\ncalls, and if they do, and if you're using triple-DES, they'll just\nget a parabolic microphone and point it at your head.\n\n\tThis is pretty clearly an effort by the government to do exactly\nwhat they're saying they're doing. As is typical with governments,\nit's mismanaged, and full of holes and compromises. As is typical\nwith our government, it's not too bad, could be worse.\n\n\tMy interpretation.\n\n\tAndrew\n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^", "Hi,\n\nI'd like to thank you all for the fast responses. \nSpecial thanks go to those who replied (lexical order):\n\nMarcus J Ranum \nPaul Crowley \npausch@saaf.se (Paul Schlyter)\ntarnold@vnet.IBM.COM (Todd W. Arnold)\nwcs@anchor.ho.att.com (Bill Stewart) \n\nMy question was:\n\n\nHow much of the DES-encrypted data is affected depends on the used\nencryption mode. According to Marcus J Ranum (mjr@TIS.COM) there is:\n\n\nUnfortunally, people strongly disagree which mode will lead to destruction\nof all of the following data. Sure seems that some modes will resync quite\nfast, others will never, others will even only effect the very block.\n\nSummarized, people said concerning *this* matter:\n\n/\n\\\n\nMaybe someone *definitely* knows what happens in which mode?\n\nNevertheless, Thank you all very much again.\n\nAxel Dunkel\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nI include the responses I got:\n\nFrom: tarnold@vnet.IBM.COM (Todd W. Arnold)\n\n\nIt depends on the mode you're using. For a single 64-bit input block, a\none-bit error will have a 50 percent chance of corrupting each of the 64\noutput bits - in other words, it essentially turns the output block into\na random number. If you're encrypting data in CBC mode, however, only the\none 64-bit block will be affected. The next block, and all that follow it\nwill be decrypted properly.\n\nIt's a good idea to have some kind of error correction in your system if\ncorrupted bits are likely.\n\n - Todd\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nFrom: pausch@saaf.se (Paul Schlyter)\n\n\nAt least 8 bytes of data will be destroyed if one bit encrypted data is\nin error.\n\nIf you use CBC (Cihper Block Chaining), then the remainder of the data\nwill be destroyed as well.\n\nDES is VERY seisitive for single bit errors. This is as it should be.\n\n-- \n---\nPaul Schlyter, Swedish Amateur Astronomer's Society (SAAF)\nNybrogatan 75 A, 6 tr, S-114 40 Stockholm, Sweden\nInterNet: pausch@saaf.se\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nFrom: Paul Crowley \n\n\nProbably very bad; you might lose the rest of the data stream. If you\nwant safety against dropped bits use an error correcting coder like the\nfreeware GNU ecc.\n __ _____\n\\/ o\\ Paul Crowley pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk \\\\ //\n/\\__/ Trust me. I know what I'm doing. \\X/ Fold a fish for Jesus!\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nFrom: wcs@anchor.ho.att.com\n\n how sensible is DES encrypted data towards bit errors? How much data per\n bit will be lost in average (I assume you still have the correct key)?\n\nIt depends on the mode you're using DES in.\nElectronic Code Book (ECB) takes a block of 64 input bits\nand produces 64 output bits, so if any bits are changed,\nthe entire block of 64 bits becomes bad.\nI forget which feedback mode is which.\nIn all of them, the results of encrypting one block affect later blocks.\nWith some modes, the system self-synchronizes, so errors are repaired\nin a few blocks. With other modes, once one block is bad,\nall later blocks will be bad too.\n\nThere's also the framing problem. If you have a bit change,\nthe block that it's in changes, and maybe later blocks also change.\nBut if you have bits lost or bits added (64 bits in, 63 or 65 bits out),\neverything is confused after that.\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nFrom: Marcus J Ranum \n\n\tdepends on the mode you're using. cfb, for example, synchronises\npretty fast. figure a bit error will destroy the current block and the\nnext one.\n\nmjr.\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n---\nExperience is what you get if you don't get what you want...", "\tI'm not sure it has been established that the government can\n\tprevent you from sending an algorithm abroad. The NSA seems\n\tto have won by intimidation so far. Why don't you try it? ;-)\n\tOf course you could just distribute your algorithm widely for\n\tfree and screw them up big time. (That would be my approach ;-))\n", "[...]\n\nOK Steve, here's a sketch of an alternative that I believe addresses\nmost of the objections to the Clipper scheme.\n\nNotation:\n\t+\tconcatenation\n\t^\texclusive or\n\tE(M,K)\tmessage M encrypted by key K\n\tD(M,K)\tmessage M decrypted by key K\n\tH(M)\thash (digest/signature) of message M\n\nImportant Values:\n\tU0[X]\t\tlocal chip unit key from escrow agency X\n\tU1[X]\t\tremote chip unit key from escrow agency X\n\tN[0]\t\tserial number of the local chip\n\tN[1]\t\tserial number of the remote chip\n\tA\t\tnumber of escrow agencies\n\tK[0],K[1]\t\"session keys\" agreed upon external to this protocol\n\tF\t\t\"family key\", need not be secret\n\nProtocol:\n\tChoose K0[1],...K0[A] such that K[0] = K0[1]^...^K0[A]\n\tRemote chip does same for K[1],K1[1],...,K1[A].\n\n\tCompute the following:\n\n\t\tL0[1] = E(K0[1], U0[1])\n\t\t...\n\t\tL0[A] = E(K0[A], U0[A])\n\n\t\tL[0] = N[0] + E(N[0] + L0[1] + ... + L0[A], F)\n\n\t\tRemote chip does the same for L1[1],...,L1[A],L[1]\n\n\tSend L[0] to remote chip and receive L[1] from remote chip\n\n\tCompute:\n\n\t\tKE[0] = H(K[0] + N[0] + L0[1] + ... + L0[A]\n\t\t\t+ K[1] + D(L[1], F)\n\n\t\tKD[0] = H(K[1] + D(L[1], F)\n\t\t\t+ K[0] + N[0] + L0[1] + ... + L0[A]\n\n\t\tNote that D(L[1], F) = N[1] + L1[1] + ... + L1[A]\n\n\t\tRemote chip does the same for KE[1] and KD[1]\n\n\tUser data is encrypted (decrypted) with keys KE[0], KE[1]\n\t\t(KD[0], KD[1])\n\nAssumptions:\n\tNo trap doors in E(), D() and H(). H() is not invertible.\n\n\tAlgorithms for E(), D() and H() are secret. Otherwise a software\n\timplementation (bogus chip) could communicate with a real chip.\n\n\tThe chip only supports the following operation:\n\n\t\t1) Return N[0]\n\t\t2) Load K0[x]\n\t\t3) Return E(K0[x], U0[x])\n\t\t4) Return E(N[0] + L0[1] + ... + L0[A], F)\n\t\t5) Given E(N[1] + L1[1] + ... + L1[A], F),\n\t\t\treturn N[1],L1[1],...,L1[A]\n\t\t6) Load K[1]\n\t\t7) Given E(N[1] + L1[1] + ... + L1[A], F),\n\t\t\tcompute KE[0], KD[0]\n\t\t8) Given M, return E(M, KE[0])\n\t\t9) Given M, return D(M, KD[0])\n\n\tAnything programmed into the chip can be determined by destroying\n\tthe chip (U[1],...,U[A],F,N[0]).\n\n\tU[1],...,U[A] can not be determined except by destroying the chip.\n\t(Unfortunately this may not be true in reality. I suppose it's\n\tpossible to determine how a chip has been programmed with a\n\tsophisticated[sp?] x-ray machine to look for blown fuses.)\n\n\tThe U's are programmed independantly by the escrow agencies.\n\nNotes:\n\tFor tapping escrow agency Y is given N[0], E(K0[Y], U0[Y]), N[1],\n\tE(K1[Y], U1[Y]) and returns K0[Y], K1[Y].\n\n\tLEA's must contact all escrow agencies with the serial numbers from\n\tboth chips and the encrypted partial keys. This allows the agencies\n\tto record that both chips were tapped.\n\n\tLEA's only get the session key, not the key to all conversations\n\tof a particular chip. This precludes real-time decrypting of a\n\tconversation but that isn't one of the STATED requirements.\n\nObservation:\n\tIn order for any secure by \"tap-able\" communication scheme to work,\n\tthe active parts need to share a secret. And if this secret is\n\trevealed, communications by those that know the secret can be made\n\t\"un-tap-able\". Obvious candidates are the cryptographic algorithm\n\tand the master (family) key. Relative size and complexity suggests\n\tthat the key can be obtained from a silicon implementation of the\n\tscheme a LOT easier and faster than the algorithm.\n\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\trsbx\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nRaymond S. Brand\t\t\t\t\trbrand@usasoc.soc.mil", "[story deleted]\n\nLet me give you another story that actually happened to ME. We sell\ncommunications boards that use a 68000. They used to be high tech. Our\nagent in the UK sold a system to a company in CH which packaged it in a\nproduct for CZ (London-Bern-Prague). I telexed the Brits and told them\nthe Swiss need to pass export paperwork through the US as, at the time,\nyou needed an export lisence for these systems.\n\nNow I knew the NSA was watching this traffic (just like they are watching\nTHIS traffic.)\n\nAnd what do you know... two weeks later an agent of the US government shows\nup in my office to remind me if we or our agents sold systems into the Evil\nEmpire, we had better make sure the export lisences were handled properly.\n\nHe was part of a FIVE man office in COLUMBUS OHIO!! who did this stuff\nbased on sources he could not reveal. (I assume most of the time these\nguys sat around the office with their thumbs up their ass as there isn't\nthat much stuff coming out of Columbus :)\n\nWow, the electric utility in Prague sure is a big worry for these folks :)\n\nThe point is, we have created a giant bureaucracy (NSA) with a budget\nbigger than the CIA's who, like all bureaucracies, fill their time looking\nfor things to do. The Evil Empire is gone. The NSA is not. They will do\nsomething to fill their time and justify their budgets. (I just wish they\ntoo would sit around with their thumbs up their ass... but that is too\nmuch to hope for... they will spy on us and do things like skipjack and\nsubvert people like Dorothy Denning.) Sigh...", "\nYeah, but who wants to start a pool on the first person arrested\nmistakenly and has their life turned upside-down because some law\nenforcement agency *does* make a chip::person association?\n\nI wonder if there are any plans to keep these records (e.g. encode the\nserial number into the UPC scanned at K-Mart along with the credit\ncard info, voila.)\n\nAt least your phone number tends to only locate to your house or\nwhatever (i.e. to be coming from your telephone number the person\nlikely is in your house etc.), plus or minus some shenanigans of\ncourse.\n\nBut I'd hate to think of these guys getting the clipper id, recording\nthe conversation, then doing a quick cross-lookup and your name comes\nup as owner of that id (mistakenly, maybe you sold the phone at a\ngarage sale or the phone was stolen from your car or whatever.) They\nmight only know who one side of the conversation is, for example.\n\nAnyone who thinks the govt is forbidden by law to cross-correlate such\ndatabases loses two points. First, law enforcement agencies can of\ncourse do this. Second, they're only forbidden from BUDGETING any\nmoney for it. The IRS, for example, does do this anyhow. They just\ndon't spend any money on it so it's (technically) legal I guess.\n\nInstead they probably trade little favors with companies like\nmastercard (if you're the IRS I'll bet you have a *lot* of\nopportunities to trade favors with major corps for their databases.)\n\nI know, an IRS guy read an amazing list off to me (from his screen, I\ncould hear him typing to pull up each screen) once on the phone during\na dispute I had with them (to intimidate me, actually, not much of a\ndispute, I didn't particularly disagree, but for some reason this\nfellow wanted to play tough guy with me, I hope he's better now.)\n\nAmazing stuff he had at his finger tips. Be afraid.\n\n-- \n -Barry Shein", "\nI perhaps should have been clearer and more concise in my post, but that's\nwhat I get from posting at 1 am...\n\nThe central point I made is that local/state police agencies attempting to\nplay by the rules and get warrants, legit escrowed keys, etc., may find\nthemselves at the mercy of bureaucratic inertia and agency infighting\nat the federal level. \n\nI disagree that this would assist civil liberties by hobbling the cowboy\ncops. It would be a strong incentive, as Vesselin points out, for more\npolice agencies to \"go rogue\" and try to get keys through more efficient\n\n Q: Suppose a law enforcement agency is conducting a wiretap on\n a drug smuggling ring and intercepts a conversation\n encrypted using the device. What would they have to do to\n decipher the message?\n\n A: They would have to obtain legal authorization, normally a\n ^^^^^^^^^^\n court order, to do the wiretap in the first place.\n ^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nThe clear implication is that there are \"legal\" authorizations other\nthan a court order. Just how leaky are these? (And who \nknows what's in those 7 pages that authorized the NSA?). There\nmay well arise a black market of sorts _within_ police agencies, in which\nkeys are traded. Furthermore, the police will be in an excellent\nposition to carry out this kind of thing without being caught. They\nalready have a communication infrastructure with secure portions. There\nare a few laws that I know of, that limit citizens' rights to access\npolice communications (or use the information they get). It may be\nvery difficult to prove police misuse -- the fact that you have such\nevidence may itself be evidence that YOU have broken some other law.\n\nThrow in private detectives, who have even fewer policy/constitutional\nrestrictions. Also consider mercenaries who've \"retired\" from intelligence\nagencies. William Gibson must be loving it. Great story material.\n\nDon't think it'll happen? \n\nWell, consider e.g. the Michigan State Police, generally a very professional\norganization, which for years kept \"Red Files\" on thousands of suspected \ncommies, knowing full well it was not consititutional. The standards\nof evidence were just about zero: people were in the file because they\nhappened to park near a place where, say, a US-China People's Friendship\nrally was happening -- the police went around writing down license\nplate numbers. If you happened to be visiting a friend who lived near the \nmeeting place, well, the state police wound up filing you as a subversive.\n(They were eventually found out and a court ruled against carrying on any\nmore such nonsense. I believe thay may have had to destroy the tapes\nas well.)\n\nEven with well-meaning cops (and I'm sure there are many), there will \nbe strong pressure to bend the constitutional safeguards. We don't need\nto assume corrupt or unbalanced officers -- it will all be in the interest \nof enforcing sensible laws, saving lives, and protecting property. \nCompromises will be made by well-meaning officers, facing what (to them) \nwill be a moral dilemma.\n\nClipper will make criminals out of cops. Do we want to do this to our\npolice forces?", "\n\nBetter, I think, is our right peacably to assemble. I have a right to meet\nyou in a park and talk privately. I have a right to see if anyone is\nnearby, listening.\n\nIn cyberspace, cryptography gives us a right to assemble with control over\nwho overhears us.\n", "The following document summarizes the Clipper Chip, how it is used,\nhow programming of the chip is coupled to key generation and the\nescrow process, and how law enforcement decrypts communications.\nSince there has been some speculation on this news group about my\nown involvement in this project, I'd like to add that I was not in\nany way involved. I found out about it when the FBI briefed me on\nThursday evening, April 15. Since then I have spent considerable\ntime talking with the NSA and FBI to learn more about this, and I\nattended the NIST briefing at the Department of Commerce on April 16. \nThe document below is the result of that effort. \n\nDorothy Denning\n---------------\n\n THE CLIPPER CHIP: A TECHNICAL SUMMARY\n\n Dorothy Denning\n\n April 19, 1993\n\n\nINTRODUCTION\n\nOn April 16, the President announced a new initiative that will bring\ntogether the Federal Government and industry in a voluntary program\nto provide secure communications while meeting the legitimate needs of\nlaw enforcement. At the heart of the plan is a new tamper-proof encryption\nchip called the \"Clipper Chip\" together with a split-key approach to\nescrowing keys. Two escrow agencies are used, and the key parts from\nboth are needed to reconstruct a key.\n\n\nCHIP STRUCTURE\n\nThe Clipper Chip contains a classified 64-bit block encryption\nalgorithm called \"Skipjack.\" The algorithm uses 80 bit keys (compared\nwith 56 for the DES) and has 32 rounds of scrambling (compared with 16\nfor the DES). It supports all 4 DES modes of operation. Throughput is\n16 Mbits a second.\n\nEach chip includes the following components:\n\n the Skipjack encryption algorithm\n F, an 80-bit family key that is common to all chips\n N, a 30-bit serial number\n U, an 80-bit secret key that unlocks all messages encrypted with the chip\n\n\nENCRYPTING WITH THE CHIP\n\nTo see how the chip is used, imagine that it is embedded in the AT&T\ntelephone security device (as it will be). Suppose I call someone and\nwe both have such a device. After pushing a button to start a secure\nconversation, my security device will negotiate a session key K with\nthe device at the other end (in general, any method of key exchange can\nbe used). The key K and message stream M (i.e., digitized voice) are then\nfed into the Clipper Chip to produce two values:\n\n E[M; K], the encrypted message stream, and \n E[E[K; U] + N; F], a law enforcement block. \n\nThe law enforcement block thus contains the session key K encrypted\nunder the unit key U concatenated with the serial number N, all\nencrypted under the family key F.\n\n\nCHIP PROGRAMMING AND ESCROW\n\nAll Clipper Chips are programmed inside a SCIF (secure computer\ninformation facility), which is essentially a vault. The SCIF contains\na laptop computer and equipment to program the chips. About 300 chips\nare programmed during a single session. The SCIF is located at\nMikotronx.\n\nAt the beginning of a session, a trusted agent from each of the two key\nescrow agencies enters the vault. Agent 1 enters an 80-bit value S1\ninto the laptop and agent 2 enters an 80-bit value S2. These values\nserve as seeds to generate keys for a sequence of serial numbers.\n\nTo generate the unit key for a serial number N, the 30-bit value N is\nfirst padded with a fixed 34-bit block to produce a 64-bit block N1.\nS1 and S2 are then used as keys to triple-encrypt N1, producing a\n64-bit block R1:\n\n R1 = E[D[E[N1; S1]; S2]; S1] .\n\nSimilarly, N is padded with two other 34-bit blocks to produce N2 and\nN3, and two additional 64-bit blocks R2 and R3 are computed: \n\n R2 = E[D[E[N2; S1]; S2]; S1] \n R3 = E[D[E[N3; S1]; S2]; S1] .\n\nR1, R2, and R3 are then concatenated together, giving 192 bits. The\nfirst 80 bits are assigned to U1 and the second 80 bits to U2. The\nrest are discarded. The unit key U is the XOR of U1 and U2. U1 and U2\nare the key parts that are separately escrowed with the two escrow\nagencies.\n\nAs a sequence of values for U1, U2, and U are generated, they are\nwritten onto three separate floppy disks. The first disk contains a\nfile for each serial number that contains the corresponding key part\nU1. The second disk is similar but contains the U2 values. The third\ndisk contains the unit keys U. Agent 1 takes the first disk and agent\n2 takes the second disk. The third disk is used to program the chips.\nAfter the chips are programmed, all information is discarded from the\nvault and the agents leave. The laptop may be destroyed for additional\nassurance that no information is left behind.\n \nThe protocol may be changed slightly so that four people are in the\nroom instead of two. The first two would provide the seeds S1 and S2,\nand the second two (the escrow agents) would take the disks back to\nthe escrow agencies.\n\nThe escrow agencies have as yet to be determined, but they will not\nbe the NSA, CIA, FBI, or any other law enforcement agency. One or\nboth may be independent from the government.\n\n\nLAW ENFORCEMENT USE\n\nWhen law enforcement has been authorized to tap an encrypted line, they\nwill first take the warrant to the service provider in order to get\naccess to the communications line. Let us assume that the tap is in\nplace and that they have determined that the line is encrypted with\nClipper. They will first decrypt the law enforcement block with the\nfamily key F. This gives them E[K; U] + N. They will then take a\nwarrant identifying the chip serial number N to each of the key escrow\nagents and get back U1 and U2. U1 and U2 are XORed together to produce\nthe unit key U, and E[K; U] is decrypted to get the session key K.\nFinally the message stream is decrypted. All this will be accomplished\nthrough a special black box decoder operated by the FBI.\n", "\tLet me ask you this. Would you trust Richard Nixon with your\ncrypto keys? I wouldn't.", "\nI can't answer all our questions in detail, but I can take a stab at\nthem.\n\nThe form the operations that compute R1, R2, and R3 is, of course, the\nfamous ``triple encryption'' suggested for use with DES. It's much\nstronger than a single encryption, and has an effective key length of\n160 bits. For reasons that were discussed when DES was first\nstandardized, a simple double encryption would not have the same\nstrength. Triple encryption has been used by IBM since more or less\nthe beginning to encrypt other keys. It's recommended for anything of\nvery high value. And I think we can agree that the R_i and S_i fit\nthat description.\n\nWhy n_1, n_2, and n_3? Well, you need different plaintext values. I\nhave no idea if they'll be disclosed or not. At a guess, they're\nconstructed so that they differ in as many bit positions as possible.\nA goo cryptosystem will scramble things a lot with even a 1-bit change\n-- but the values of N in a series will have fairly similar bit\npatterns, and there might, conceivably, be a weakness. So the n_i\nvalues are -- and I'm guessing -- chosen to increase the Hamming\ndistance.\n\nIn any event, I'm quite convinced that one cannot go back to the S_i\nfrom the U_i, let alone U. (Observe: if the NSA has U, they don't\nneed to find S_i. But even if they do, they can't get U_1 and U_2. In\ntheory, they should never even see those values, even with a warrant.)\n\nThe real question, I think, is why use this scheme at all, as opposed\nto a hardware random number generator. My answer is that this is\n*much* more verifiable. Look -- suppose that NSA, NIST, the ACLU, the\nEFF, and the NRA combined to build a *really* good random number\ngenerator, and that it passed every test you could think of. When you\ncome back next week to program some more chips, does it still work that\nwell? Have any components changed in value? Have the components been\nchanged out from under you? Does it still work well the in the\npresence of a focused microwave beam that tends to bias it towards\nselecting 1 bits? Yes, you can run detailed statistical tests on it\nagain, but that's hard.\n\nConsider, on the other hand, a software solution. You bring your own\nfloppies with you, you can run cryptographic checksums, etc. It's a\nlot easier to verify that the software is unchanged, in other words.\n(Yes, I can think of ways to cheat software, too. I think that they're\na lot harder.)\n\nThere are three issues with Clipper. The first is whether or not the\narchitecture of the whole scheme is capable of working. My answer,\nwith one significant exception, is yes. I really do think that NSA and\nNIST have designed this scheme about as well as can be, assuming that\ntheir real objectives are as stated: to permit wiretapping, under\ncertain carefully-controlled circumstances, with a minimum risk of\nabuse. (The exception is that U exists outside of the chip, on a\nprogramming diskette. That's seriously wrong. U_1 and U_2 should be\nloaded onto the chip separately.) To those who disagree (and I don't\nclaim my answer is obvious, though I found my own reasoning\nsufficiently persuasive that I was forced to rewrite the Conclusions\nsection of my technical analysis paper -- I had originally blasted the\nscheme), I issue this invitation: assume that you were charged with\nimplementing such a system, with complete regard for civil rights and\ndue process. What would you do differently? In answering this\nquestion, please accept NSA's fundamental assumptions: that both\nstrong cryptography against outsiders, and the ability to wiretap\n*some* domestic users, is necessary. (If you feel it necessary to\nchallenge those assumptions, do it in the context of the last issue I\npresent below. Right here, I'm discussing *just* the technical\naspects. And no, I don't by any means claim that just because\nsomething can be done, it should be.)\n\nThe second issue is whether or not this whole architecture is actually\ngoing to be used. Just because Clipper chips are made this way doesn't\nmean that that's the only way they'll be made. Maybe the NSA will\nsubstitute its own chips between the programming facility and the\nshipping dock. And they'll generate bogus warrant requests, so that\nthe escrow agents don't wonder why they've never called. (``Sorry,\nguys; all them terrorists and drug dealers and pedophiles seem to have\nbought triple-DES phones instead. Who'd 'a' thunk it?'') I have no\nanswer to this question, and at the moment, I don't see a way of\nanswering it. Those concerns are part of my reasoning in my answer\nto the final question, below.\n\nThe third, and most serious issue, is whether or not Clipper is a good\nidea even if carried out strictly according to the letter of the law.\nI think that the answer is no, but it's not a no-brainer. I'm a civil\nlibertarian, not a libertarian, for reasons that I explained at great\nlength on the net in the Elder Days, and that I don't have the energy\nto repeat now. But that means that I'm willing to accept that some\nlaws are necessary, so long as they respect the essential rights of\nindividuals. The government already has the ability and -- in our\nsystem -- the right to issue search warrants, and while that power has\ncertainly been abused, it's also been used quite properly and fairly in\nother cases. Is key escrow sufficiently different? I think so -- but\nagain, it's not an easy question for me. (It is easy for libertarians\nto answer, of course, since Clipper is completely alien to much of the\nrest of their (oft-admirable) philosophy. And it's also easy for those\nwho give their unreserved trust to government, a group I'm much more\ndistant from.)\n", "\nMedical info without a name/body attached is completely useless for\ntreatment.\n\n\nThus making it as secure as cash, for some purposes, but far less\nsecure for others.\n\n\nSure they do. The prospective sitter may have a nasty habit of molesting\nkids three or four months into the job. The references may not have\nknown him long enough or may not have picked up on this yet.\n\nRemember, criminal conviction info is public, so if you're going to\nargue for an ID card, other people are going to have a strong argument\nthat it disclose public info.\n\n\nThus making it useless for negative information.\n\n\nYeah right. How are you going to keep doctors from spilling the\nbeans? (We already know that you can't keep cops from disclosing\ninfo, but at least that info is typically supposed to be public\nanyway.)\n\n\nThe article discusses technology, not appropriate policy. It also\nfails to deal with \"what happens if the folks with the secrets blab\".\n\n-andy", "\n\n\nI wouldn't think so. Asking people to trust a secret algorithm seems\nunsound to me.", "\nDorothy Denning, _Cryptography and Data Security_, 1982, Addison Wesley.\nPage 8, under the heading \"Cryptosystems must satisfy three general\nrequirements. The other two are efficiency and ease of use.", "\nTrue in theory. In practice? The technology of cellular phones will\nprobably be spread spectrum and quite difficult to record the crypttext\nwithout the key. If the frequency path depends on they key, as I\nunderstand it to, it *could* be made effectively impossible to record.\n\nOnce it hits land you can record it if you have telco access. The\ntelco isn't supposed to give that without a warrant. That's the rule\ntoday.\n\nBut even so, the evidence would not be admissible, I think, unless the\njudge so ordered. I think that even interception of the crypttext\nwithout a warrant would be illegal. Cops can't record today's plain\ncellular calls and then ask a judge, \"Hey, can we have permission to\nlisten to those tapes?\" can they?\n\n\nYes, that is a major concern, but I think that they think they can\nwin just by having 99.5% of the USA use this system. They don't even\nhave to care about the cautious .5% that's left. They don't catch the\nreally smart crooks anyway. John Gotti, who would have to be retarded\nnot to realize he was likely to be wiretapped, glibly chatted away\non his tapped phone about murder plans. That's why he's in jail now.\nHard to believe, but true.\n\n\nThis scheme can succeed without laws forbidding more, which people would\nfight a lot harder. They like this enough that they are dropping the so\ncalled \"Digital Telephony\" proposal, according to rumours. However the\nmeaning of that is complex, since they still want to get at the crypttext\non telco systems, and that requires a bit of work.", "\nErgo, if your life is sufficiently boring, you have no need for privacy?\n\n(This is not meant to be personal, just the logical conclusion of your\nstatement.)", "\nThat's nothing. They wouldn't let the British buy Inmos Transputer systems\nbecause of security concerns. And we designed the damn things!\n", "Hi everybody!\n\nDoes anyone know of companies that are currently manufacturing\nencryption chips for sale to the general public? Get them while you\ncan! Some pointers would be greatly appreciated.\n\nThanks", "\nThis sounds an awful lot like a password-guesser, not a weakness in\nDES. Merritt and I pointed out this weakness in Kerberos in a paper\nthat came out about 2.5 years ago, in both Computer Communications\nReview and Usenix. For that matter, it was loudly discussed on the\nKerberos mailing list even earlier.\n\nThe problem has nothing whatsoever to do with DES, and everything to do\nwith bad password selection.", "\n\nWhy doing it in such a rough manner? It is much more professional to\nsteal the chip from the phone and even to replace it with a\npin-compatible do-nothing chip that does not encrypt at all. Chances\nare that the victim will not notice anything, especially if it is done\nprofessionally.\n\n\nNo, because the Feds will still be able to decrypt the conversations.\nTrue, they'll blame the wrong guys, but nevertheless one cannot say\nsomething like \"The drugs arrive tommorrow on the ship 'Terminus'\"\nwhen the Feds are listening, even if they cannot identify who the\nspeaker is.\n\nNo, the criminals will just use some secure encryption. The new\nproposal does not stop criminals; it ensures that the government will\nbe able to wiretap the average citizen and stops the casual snooper.\nTo me, it also clearly looks as a step towards outlawing any other\nstrong encryption devices.\n\nRegards,\nVesselin", "Excerpts from the Clipper announcement, with some questions:\n\n\n\nIn these two sections the phrases `or other legal order' and `normally a\ncourt order' imply there is some other way or ways of doing a legal\nwiretap. What is/are these? How do they affect the way people who trust the\nsystem of court orders to protect them feel about this escrow system?\n\nThe second section shows the sequence of events.\nThe law enforcer, armed with his warrant, attaches his headphones to the\nline with his croc-clips (remember, these are the folk who couldn't cope\nwith digital telephony) and hears a load of modem-like tones (we are\ntalking analogue telephony here).\nWhat next? What modulation scheme do these Clipper boxes use?\nIs it possible to record the tones for use after the keys are obtained?\nI thought it was quite difficult to record a modem session at some\nintermediate point on the line. Maybe they have taken a crash course\nin data comms and have a unit that demodulates the tones and stores the\ndigital stream for decryption later. This would still suffer from the\nsame problems as trying to record the tones as the demodulator would not\nbe at one end of the line. If calls can't be recorded for decryption later\nit would be quite easy to foil the system by buying lots of Clipper units\n(these are supposed to be cheap mass market items) and using them in turn.\n\nHow tolerant is the modulation scheme to errors? These things are proposed\nfor use by US corporations to secure their foreign offices, where phone\nline quality may well be poor. It seems hard enough to me to get digitised\nspeech of any quality into something a modem can handle without having to\nadd lots of error correction to keep the decryption in sync.\n\n\nThis raises an intersting question in the UK. Here it is illegal to connect\nanything to a public telecomms network without it being approved by a body\ncalled BABT. It has been stated, either here or in the uk.telecom group,\nthat they will not approve equipment that does encryption. I don't know\nif this is true or not, but this would make a good test case.\nPerhaps `friendly' countries, and the UK may still qualify, will get\nto fish in the escrowed key pool as well.\n", "\n\nInstead of reading between the lines, try to think a little bit. OK,\nif that's way too difficult to you, here are some hints.\n\nIndeed, the new proposal imposes some additional burocratic burden on\nthe local police, if they badly want to tape the magic cookie recipie\nthat your mom is telling you on the phone. So, guess what they will\ndo? Propose that the new technology is removed? Or implement some\n\"facilitations\"? Of course, you won't want to wait until they get the\napproval from two different agencies to decrypt the conversation\nbetween two child molesters, because meanwhile those two child\nmolesters might be conspiring about molesting your child, right? So,\nthere should be some way for them to get access to those keys\n-quickly-, right? Like, they could have a copy of the database, and\nworry about a warrant later...\n\nRegards,\nVesselin", "\nThere are other laws and directives which bear upon the subject. For\nexample, the National Computer Security Act of 1987 specifically directs\nNBS [sic] to work with NSA on developing security standards for civilian\nFederal computers. (Pick up the bill from cpsr.org; it also includes\na report describing it, and some of the legislative history, including\nconcerns about NSA's involvement.) Note also that NSA is specifically\ncharged with running the National Computer Security Center, -- to\nquote the aforementioned report -- ``NSA also will work with industries at\nthe DOD Computer Security Center to develop security standards for private\nsector use.''", "\n\nI don't know, but I'm as willing to speculate as anyone.\n\nSeveral people have suggested that the chips use public-key cryptography.\nAnother possibility is to use Diffie-Hellman key exchange, or some other\nalgorithm which has a similar effect. DH allows both ends to agree on\na session key which they use with symmetric cryptography (something\nlike DES) for the encryption.\n\nHow could the \"back door\" keys work in this system? I can see a few\npossibilities. One is that the DH-like algorithm has the property that\nthe session key can be deduced by an eavesdropper who knows the back door\nkeys for one (or possibly both) communicants. Perhaps the random numbers\nused in the DH are seeded by the back door key, or some such.\n\nAnother possibility, as was suggested here earlier, is that the chips\nsimply broadcast the session key, encrypted with the chip's own\ninternal secret key. In this system the back door keys are secret keys\nusable for decrypting this session key broadcast. Actually the chip's\nsecret key doesn't need to be a public key in this usage, but can be\nidentical to the secret back-door key. (This proposal seems most\nstraightforward to me.)\n\nStill another possibility is that the encryption algorithm used for the\nmessage itself has a \"dual key\" property, that possession of either of\ntwo keys can be used to decrypt it. One key would be the session key from\nthe DH exchange, and the other would be the back door key for the chip.\n\nIt's worth noting that one of the proposals Dorothy Denning raised\nduring her amazingly prescient on-line discussion last November and\nDecember was a variation on Diffie-Hellman in which a third party would\nparticipate in deriving the session keys. This doesn't quite fit into\nwhat we know of how Clipper works but it hints that those who had early\nknowledge of Clipper (or whose thinking was somehow synchronized with\nClipper designers) may have had Diffie-Hellman on their minds.", "[deletion]\n: >Perhaps these encryption-only types would defend the digitized porn if it\n: >was posted encrypted?\n: >\n: >These issues are not as seperable as you maintain.\n: >\n\n: Now why would anyone \"post\" anything encrypted? Encryption is only of \n: use between persons who know how to decrypt the data.\n\n: And why should I care what other people look at? ", "\nI wish I could agree with you. Ask yourself this. Why would any private\nsector entity wish to buy a crypto system that was KNOWN to be at least\npartially compromised? (Key escrows in this instance) Why would any\nprivate sector entity wish to buy a crypto system that had not been properly\nevaluated? (i.e. algorythm not publically released)\nThe answer seems obvious to me, they wouldn't. There is other hardware out\nthere not compromised. DES as an example (triple DES as a better one.)\n\nMy suspicion is that the prices will drop dramatically on these non clipper\nsystems. If not we're in trouble.\n\nGiven that the Clinton administration is not entirely stupid (although we'd like\nto think so) I cannot believe that they have failed to realize this.\nThey know their initiative will fail, much as crippled DES was never taken\nseriously. The only way their moves can work is by coercion. You know\nlittle about politics if you don't realize that this is just a first step\nin the next move, it makes NO sense otherwise. The next move, banning\nor SEVERLY crippling crypto not using the \"Clipper\" system is easily\njustified \"Why would anyone want other encryption unless they were trying\nto subvert the government? We've provided you with a very secure alternative\nso use it or go to jail/be fined/whatever.\"\nHow can you reconcile the administrations self proclaimed purpose of providing\nlaw enforcement with access to encrypted data without making the clipper system\nthe only crypto available in the U.S... ? You simply can't, and the administration\nknows it. Anyone who wanted to keep the govt. out of their hair, be it for\ndrug dealing or whatever, would just buy still available non-clipper systems.\n\nDon't sell our crafty Clinton types short, they can't be THAT stupid.\nEither banning non clipper crypto is the next answer or the administrations\ncollective I.Q. is about that of a potato.\n\nWhy do you think AT&T jumped on so fast? They know it's going to be big,\nand NOT because it's better. Right on the face of it, noone will buy the\nstuff that doesn't have to. AT&T must know this too, THINK MAN, why the\nhell would they jump the gun?\n\n\nI really wonder.\n\nTo wit: The letter I just sent to Clinton:\n\nThe White House\nOffice of the Press Secretary c/o:\nPresidential Comment Line (fax)\n(202) 456-2461\n \nApril 17, 1993\n \nSir and/or Madam:\n \n \nI must object most strongly to the administrations evolving position on encryption and\ncryptography. I am shocked at the Clinton regimes increasing lean towards a authoritarian approach with regard to privacy and freedom from government oversight in day to day life.\n \nIt is apparent to me that those who drafted the \"Clipper Chip Proposal\" (which is, incidentally, gaining notoriety as the \"Big Brother Proposal\") are either incredibly ignorant or very sly indeed. Anyone knowledgeable in the nuances of cryptographic development and research must understand that a key step in the development of a new algorithm, especially one destined for standardization, is the full disclosure of the algorithm to the private and academic sectors. The proper evaluation of an algorithm dep\n\n\n\n\n\nends on careful scrutiny by these sectors, and only such scrutiny can provide true public confidence in the security of the algorithm. The assumption that a new algorithm will be accepted based on assurances from \"experts\" without full disclosure is plain ignorance.\n \nIn addition, the assumption that an algorithm will be marketable over other technology, such as DES, when it is characterized by key escrow is lunacy. It seems an easy step in the logic chain that probable consumers will prefer to purchase equipment not crippled by government key escrow, no matter how \"tamper proof\" the key escrows might be.\n \nI cannot believe that even the least educated policy maker would have failed to realize these flaws. I can only assume then that the drafters of the \"Clipper Chip Proposal\" knew very well the difficulties of selling a crippled system to the private sector. The only way this proposal makes any sense, or has any chance of succeeding is in coercion. Even the language of the proposal makes it painfully clear that the next logical step is the outlawing of other encryption devices and hardware that do not uti\n\n\n\n\n\nlize the \"Big Brother Chip.\"\n \nUnfortunately the public at large is not educated enough on the issue to realize what they are losing. I expect the Big Brother proposal to encounter little resistance from the American people who you will have so efficiently duped once again with pretty words like \"harmony,\" \"right to encryption,\" and \"voluntary.\"\n \nIt mortifies me that the phrase that seems to be used more and more often to characterize the Clinton administration is \"I can't believe it's happening here.\" More startling is a question a colleague of mine posed and the realization that everyday it becomes more and more relevant; \"When is the Reichstag fire planned for?\"\n \n \n\t\t\t\t\t\tMost Concerned,\n \n\t\t\t\t\t\t[Signature]\n\t\t\t\t\t\tShaen Logan Bernhardt I\nuni@acs.bu.edu\n", "From article <67@cyberia.win.net>, by johnston@cyberia.win.net (Robert Johnston):\n\nHmmm... I wouldn't consider encryption to be a weapon. How would the\ngovernment classify encryption? Seems to me that encryption ought to\nbe covered by the first amendment. Using this line of reasoning, the\ngovernment shouldn't be able to restrict what data people encrypt and\nwhat encryption algorithms they use because this would be restricting\none's freedom of speech. In other words, encrypted data---text,\ngraphics, or other information---is just another form of free speech.\nFor this reason the government shouldn't be able to regulate the use\nof encryption algorithms and encrypted data. The only time the\ngovernment should be able to 'force' someone to reveal his or her\nencryption keys for some encrypted data is when the encrypted data\nin question may be something that isn't protected by the first\namendment such as kiddy porn. Even in a case like this the\ngovernment should be required to get a search warrant before coercing\nsomeone into revealing the keys.\n\nBTW, what encryption methods are considered to be state-of-the-art\nnowdays. Have the feds relaxed export restrictions on DES yet?\nAlso, is DES still regarded as a good form of encryption?\n\n\n\nScott Kennedy, Brewer and Patriot\n\nBefore: \"David Koresh is a cheap thug who interprets\n the Bible through the barrel of a gun...\" --ATF spokesman\nAfter: \"[The ATF] is a cheap thug who interprets\n [the Constitution] through the barrel of a gun...\" --Me", " >have no idea what's in Apple's patented ROMs. Many have modems connected.\n >How do you know all your business secrets aren't being stolen? Answer:\n >1. Because you trust Apple;\n >2. Because if any such attempt, however sophicsticated, came out, it would\ndestroy Apple's credibility forever. ", "\nI'm not up on the details of US patent law, but I think this is incorrect.\nThere is a \"reasonable use\" exemption for *copyright*. There is none for\n*patents*. The exemptions from patent licensing are quite narrow; R&D work\nis exempt but personal use is not. That is, it's okay to experiment with\na patented idea, but not to put it to practical use (e.g. to improve your\nstereo), even if it's only your own private practical use.\n\nOf course, it is unlikely that discreet personal use will ever be detected\nor that you will ever be sued over it.", "\t[Prof. Denning's description of SkipJack mostly omitted]\n\n\tCHIP STRUCTURE\n\tThe Clipper Chip contains a classified 64-bit block encryption\n\talgorithm called \"Skipjack.\" The algorithm uses 80 bit keys (compared\n\twith 56 for the DES) and has 32 rounds of scrambling (compared with 16\n\tfor the DES). It supports all 4 DES modes of operation. Throughput is\n\t16 Mbits a second. [...]\n\n\tF, an 80-bit family key that is common to all chips\n\tN, a 30-bit serial number\n\tU, an 80-bit secret key that unlocks all messages encrypted\n\t\t with the chip\n\tThe key K and message stream M (i.e., digitized voice) are then\n\tfed into the Clipper Chip to produce two values:\n\n \t E[M; K], the encrypted message stream, and \n\t E[E[K; U] + N; F], a law enforcement block. \n\nThree questions:\n1) It looks like each 64 bits of input gives you 4*64 bits of output:\n\t\tE[M;K] = 64 bits\n\t\tE[K;U] = E[ 80 bits ] = 128 bits\n\t\tE[ E[K;U], N ; F ] = E[ 128 + 30 bits ] = 192 bits\n Do you really need to transmit all 256 bits each time,\n or do you only transmit the 192 bits of wiretap block at the beginning? \n All 256 would be really obnoxious for bandwidth-limited applications\n like cellular phones (or even regular phones over \n\n2) how do the 4 DES modes interact with the two-part output?\n Do the various feedback modes only apply to the message block,\n or also to the wiretap block? Or, if the wiretap block is only\n transmitted at the beginning, does it get incorporated into\n everything through feedback modes, but not during ECB mode?\n\n3) Does the Clipper Chip check the wiretap block itself?\n Does the block have to be present at all?\n Since the receiving chip doesn't know the transmitter's U,\n it presumably can't check the validity of E[K;U], so it's \n limited to checking the *form* of the wiretap block,\n and maybe checking the serial number for reasonableness\n (unless there's some sort of back-door structure that lets\n it recognize a valid E[K;U].)\n \n In that case, can you replace the wiretap block with a DIFFERENT\n wiretap block, presumably an old valid one to avoid attracting attention?\n (The chip won't do it, so you postprocess the output.)\n Regular people can do one with their own serial number and a dummy key;\n paranoid people can use someone else's serial number.\n\n On the other hand, if I could think of that solution so easily,\n presumably the NSA could too - have they done something to block it,\n like use message encryption that's really E[M; K,U,N] ?\n\n\n\tThanks!", "\nThey may collect the data, but making sense of it is another matter.\n\nOn sci.crypt I'm a graduate CS major (with strong math background) and\nexperienced programmer taking a cryptology course. (<< keyword for\nalleged NSA filters).\n\nOn sci.skeptic I'm an ex-physics major who's a new-age flake, talking\nabout silly things like how a person's expectations colors what he\nsees.\n\nOn talk.religion.newage I'm a physics geek who enjoys squashing\ninteresting idea with WASP science, although I do write occasional\nposts showing a minimal knowledge of Zen, mythology, etc.\n\nI could go on, but I'm sure you see my point. I'm a single person,\nbut I react differently on different groups (admittedly, in part\nbecause I'm a contrarian you always shouts \"but, on the other hand...\").\nOn top of that, I _loath_ certainty and have taken public positions\nin the past for no reason other than to challenge \"conventional wisdom\".\nI wish them luck in figuring out who \"I\" am based on that information.\n\n(They can probably figure out I'm liberal, with a technical degree\nbut humanistic interests, from a common thread throughout my posts.\nBut that describes a fair portion of the users of Internet).\n", "\nFirstly, an aside:\n\nI agree that the weakness exists, but I have a lot of trouble\nbelieving that it represents a difficulty in real life. Given:\n\n1. the purpose of the one-time pad is to give unbreakable security,\nand the expense of key distribution etc., imply that the clients\nreally do want that level of security\n\n2. These same people want to keep P a secret\n\nI find it hard to believe that Eve might happen to have a copy of P\nlying around.\n\n(I am aware that the same argument applies to Eve knowing even a small\npart of the message, but Eve must know EXACTLY where (which bytes) in\nC her known susequence starts, or the result will be garbled. I find\nthis at least as surprising.)\n\nBack to the question:\n\nIf I had the resources to use a one-time-pad for such transmissions, I\nwould also append a Message Authentication Code to the message, using up\nthe next bits of the one-time-pad as the key perhaps. Your original\nquestion basically asked whether there was any way to authenticate the\nmessage with the same degree of security as the Pad itself provided,\nand I don't know the answer. However, I would propose the following\nfor discussion.\n\nAlice and Bob have an arbitrary number of secret, random bits to\nshare, which Eve doesn't know. She finds them out (effectively) by\nknowing some P and the corresponding C. It is the fact that they\nCORRESPOND that causes the problem. If a message authentication code was to\nbe created using some one-time-pad operation such that Eve could not\nknow which parts of the MAC were affected by which parts of the input,\nshe would be unable to forge a MAC to correspond.\n\nWhat is required is a non-linear combiner of parts of the message.\n(Non-linear so that simply xoring or subtracting or whatever doesn't\nhave exactly the same effect).\n\nNow, at the end of the encrypted message C, Alice appends a n-bit MAC\ncomputed as follows (S2 means the next full chunk of the one time pad):\n 1. compute C2 = P xor S2, and pad to an n-bit boundary with more of S\n 2. break C2 into n-bit chunks\n 3. set MAC to 0 (initialisation vector)\n 4. for i in each chunk sequentially\n set MAC = MAC NLOP C2[i]\n\nAt the end of this process MAC is the Message Authentication Code.\n\n(Bob verifies the MAC in the obvious manner; he recovers the\nplaintext P, then uses some more of his pad to reproduce the MAC in\nthe same manner.)\n\nNLOP is the non-linear operator, and there is the rub. The simplest\nnon-linear operator I can think of is an S-box; that is, have a fixed\n(even published) permutation of the n-bit integers, an indexable table\ncalled Sbox, and use:\n x NLOP y = x xor Sbox[y].\n\nPractically speaking, I think this solves your problem, as Eve never\nsees the intermediate output C2, and hence can't deduce S2 or perform any valid\nsubstitution on it.\n\nAlso practically speaking, you want the MAC to be fairly large, say 32\nbits, but you might not want a 4 gigabyte (say) S-box, so you might\nwork on 4 byte-sized S-boxes, but I think that is an irrelevant detail\nfor the discussion at hand.\n\nWho will be first to point out my errors, or give me a pointer to some\nliterature?", ": I have seen various references to 'triple des' recently. Could anyone\n: tell me what it is ? From context, I would guess that it means\n: encrypting each block 3 times, with a different key each time, but\n: I'd like to be sure.\n\n: Replies by email preferred - our news is unreliable.\n\nCould people replying to the above question post their responses here\nas well, as I'm sure others (including myself) would like to hear them.\n\nThanks.\n\nJon", "\nI may be an anarchist nutcase, but I wouldn't have frothed overmuch\nhad the government proposed a secure encryption standard. In fact,\nif the NSA had come up with a privacy chip rather than a wiretap\nchip, I would have been happy. They *could* have done this -- set\nup an ANSI committee, picked a secure cryptosystem, defined a\nprotocol and interface, and said, \"Hey, start building them.\"\n\nInstead we have a deliberately brain-dead version of a cryptosystem\nthat has not even been peer reviewed. Yes, the NSA owns some smart\npeople. But if they pulled a FEAL, well, AT&T is going to be left\nwith a lot of dud phones on its hands.\n\n\nHeh heh. The government already gave it up for us. Remember in the\nannouncement they described this scheme as balancing the two\nextremes of having no privacy and claiming that citizens had a\nConstitutional right to encryption? \n\nSo much for Clinton's support of the \"right of privacy\".", "\nBut the NSA will not be doing any wiretapping. The actual wiretapping will,\npresumably, be conducted by the FBI. Of course, the capability for this was\nprovided by the NSA, but I think that they are still within the limitations\nof their charter.\n\nI realize this is a fine point, and some may differ, but this is my opinion.\nAlthough I don't care for Clipper and won't support or use it, I don't see\nthe NSA as having overstepped their bounds.\n\nDavid R. Conrad\t\t\"No his mind is not for rent/To any god or government\"", "\nI don't find this a credible argument, for two reasons. One you have\nsupplied below: unless I care about entering the USA at any time in the\nfuture (eg. the Taiwanese backyard cloners - who BTW have been known to\ndecap custom silicon and reproduce it on daughterboards when pirating\nhigh-profit arcade machines and the like - who wouldn't care less), I am not \ngoing to care much about US confidentiality, am I? Only people like the\nreal me, who does care about travelling to various countries for business\nreasons, will sit up and follow laws like this, but I would contend that\nwe're not the main threat.\n\nI also have grave doubts whether an algorythm widely distributed in silicon\ncould possibly be called \"classified.\" It's like handing out military\nsecrets to the whole world in envelopes marked \"don't open me.\" I can\nimagine several credible defences which could be employed if it came to\na trial. One would be the stupidity of the government's actions.\n\n\nAmusing thought: could they have employed an algorythm which is infeasable\nfor a fast software implementation, but which is easy in custom hardware?\nIn DES, the extensive use of permutation tables (trivial in hardware: you\njust swap bus lines), but relatively slow in software have had a big effect\non the speed difference between hardware and software implementations of\nthat cipher (indeed, I suspect that Lucifer's designers were well aware that\nit would be, and approved.) Certain algorythms (usually parallel search\nalgorythms) can be very slow in software, yet can fly in custom hardware.\nI have no proof of their employment in Clipper -- it is pure conjecture. \nHowever, as a software implementation of this cipher is something that its \ndesigners would have been trying to avoid at all costs, then the inclusion \nof such techniques seems credible.\n\nHmmm... I also wonder what Intergraph thinks about the use of the name\n\"Clipper\" for this device. :)\n", "\n\tWell, actually, this one's easy. It's their job. The NSA is\nsupposed to develop cryptosystems. If the government chooses to go\nahead and sell those cryptosystems to the masses, so be it.\n\n\tThis sounds a lot like slamming the competition, not a cry\nfor justice. These guys are way out on a limb, if I read that right.\nThey've commited their new algorithm to silicon before it's been\nmade public. What are they gonna do if Shamir writes a paper showing\nhow to crack the entire class of algorithms in 5 minutes with a slide\nrule and a pencil?\n\n\tIf they weren't busy throwing muck to smear their competitors,\nI'd feel kinda sorry for 'em. Still do, a little.", "\nPreventing black market chips w/non-escrowed keys IS exactly what they\nmean by protecting the security of the key escrow system. There are\ntwo parts to the security of such a system:\n \n (a) Preventing decruption by unauthorized personel\n (b) Assuring that the gummit can always decrypt clipper\n traffic when it authorizes itself to do so.\n\nOf course, the ministry of propoganda will do a lot of tallking about\n(a) and very little about (b).\n\n rob boudrie\n rboudrie@chpc.org", "The protocol/key-management description published so far is either\n\tincomplete or incorrect. It leaves me with no idea of how the system\n\twould actually _work_. I hope the CPSR FOIA request succeeds so that\n\twe get full details.\n\nWouldn't it be easier just to ask denning@cs.georgetown.edu? ;-)", "\n It is Clinton's initiative now. He is pushing it hard\n Aren't the liberals supposed to be concerned about privacy\n rights?\n\n If you want to know more about the wiretapping initiative,\n read \"1984\" - it's in there, installed in every bedroom.\n\n\n-- \n------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDisclaimer: Opinions expressed are mine, not my employer's.", "\nThere are two issues here: copyright and patent.\n\nThe magazine article's contents are copyrighted, and may not be reproduced,\ntranslated, etc., without the copyright holder's permission. However, this\ndoes not cover the *ideas* expressed, only the form of expression. Copying\ntheir circuit diagram or PC-board pattern is copyright infringement. But\nit's unlikely that they could stretch copyright far enough to claim that\nthe circuit design itself is copyrighted. So long as you draw your own\ndiagrams and lay out your own boards, copyright shouldn't be an issue.\n\nPatents are different. The author does *not* have to give you any warning\nthat the design is covered by patent (although it would be sensible for\nhim to do so). In fact, it's possible that *he* was infringing on someone\nelse's patent without realizing it. Ignorance of the patented status is\nnot a defence against infringement, although it might reduce the damages\na court would award.\n\nHowever... unless there was something seriously novel about the circuit,\nalmost certainly it is \"obvious to one skilled in the art\" and therefore\nunpatentable. Routine engineering is not patentable; patents (in theory)\ncover only inventions, ideas that are genuinely new.\n\nCaution: I am not a lawyer. Consulting a professional would be wise if\nsignificant amounts of money are at stake.", "Deeply grateful for citations to any papers on electronic cash schemes.\nEnquiring minds &c...", "\nI am sure you didn't miss the implication that we could have another\nRichard Nixon type president in the future (perhaps not too distant\nfuture, acutally). With that in mind, then I take it you also would\nnot object to the Gov coming up with a decision (not proposal - just\nlike Clinton Cripple is a decision, not a proposal) sprung on us to\nstart placing video cameras with sound in every room of your house,\nwhich could be activated without your knowlege. They would be well\nconcealed so you wouldn't know the location, to prevent you from covering\nthe lens opening. After all, nothing you're doing would be of the\nslightest interest to a government official, right? So, you surely\nshould not object to such a proposal...\n\nNot the best anology, but the principle is pretty close - the ability\nto eavesdrop on your activity with little or no effort, without your\nknowlege, protected by entirely by \"government safeguards\". You can\nstill draw your curtains, so you can still have your privacy from everyone\nelse (except Big Brother)!! After all we need this for protection from\ndrug dealers and terrorists and other criminals (like 'enemies of the\nSTATE')... and you don't really have a right to \"unbreakable\" privacy\nanyway, sort of as the press release of the Clinton Cripple DECISION\nputs it...\n\nI find it curious they use the word \"unbreakable\" when the term really\nshould be \"difficult to break without proper authorization\" (which the\nGovernment most certainly has at their disposal, right? They wouldn't\nwant to be able to break it ILLEGALLY, would they?)... Nawww, not\n\"for the People\" Clinton....\n\nCan you, while my mind is on it, give us one good reason that the\nalgorithm should be a secret algorithm, unless this encryption scheme\neither is a joke, or contains features like a 'master key' or other back\ndoor for UNAUTHORIZED eavesdropping? If it was really even moderately\nsecure, and the government really meant to require the proper court\norder and the keys that are in the Escrow accounts to be able to decipher\nthe traffic, what is the need to keep the algorithm secret? Seems I\nhear rather often that if an encryption scheme requires the algorithm\nto remain a secret to be effective, it is not a worthwhile scheme... is\nthis just idle talk, or is the Administration bullshitting everyone?\n\nWith GREAT skepticism, and many doubts on our Administrations intentions...\n\nAnd WAIT!! We haven't been told the NEXT gem the Administration has in\nmind for e-mail and datafile security. The press release does say that\nthis is part of a comprehensive thing on data security for us unprivileged\ncitizens. Perhaps 'subjects' would be the better term - 'citizens'\nsomehow does not seem appropriate... that implies a free people, 'subjects'\nbetter fits a population who serve at the pleasure of their rulers.\nOne thing for certain: The government no longer regards the citizens\nas their bosses anymore, but the other way around...\n", "\n\nThousands? Tens of thousands? Do some arithmetic, please... Skipjack\nhas 2^80 possible keys. Let's assume a brute-force engine like that\nhypothesized for DES: 1 microsecond per trial, 1 million chips. That's\n10^12 trials per second, or about 38,000 years for 2^80 trials. Well,\nmaybe they can get chips running at one trial per nanosecond, and build\na machine with 10 million chips. Sure -- only 3.8 years for each solution.\n\nIDEA uses 128-bit keys. Shall I bother doing the calculations for you?\nHint: multiply 3.8 years by 2^(128-80). And you can't do IDEA at that\nspeed; key setup takes much too long. I wouldn't be surprised if that\nwere the case for Skipjack, too, though there's no way of knowing just\nyet. DES used only xor because that's what was feasible with mid-70's\ntechnology. Modern chips can do a lot more.", "\n > Just curious, how would the Clipper Chip system handle\n > conference calls?\n\n It's not Clipper, it's any encryption system. I've seen a number of\n designs; they generally involve a multi-line cleartext bridge.\n\nDepending on the encryption system, so long as everyone has the same\nkey, it can be done. For example, I was using \"vat\", which is an\nInternet Audio tool, for a conference call, and we were encrypting the\nsession. (Unfortunately, one site was doing more work, and didn't\nhave the CPU for it, so it didn't sound all that good at a different\nsite)\n\nSo, you don't neccessarily have to have a clear-text bridge. But if\nyou do, its totally internal to one of the sites involved in the\nconversation....\n\n-derek\n\n", "The system, or 'family', key would appear to be cryptographically\nuseless, since *every* chip must know it and be able to remove its\neffects from the bitstream. I daresay that it will be widely known\nalmost immediately after this system is deployed, and since it's been\npointed out that there is not a separate decrypt key -- the same key\nis used for both encryption and decryption -- there goes any benefit\nto the use of a system-wide key in SkipJack.", "O.K.- if you've read this group for a while, you know all about the\none-time-pad, but here's a question I haven't seen.\n\nThe one-time-pad yeilds ideal security, but has a well-known flaw in\nauthentication. Suppose you use a random bit stream as the pad, and\nexclusive-or as the encryption operation. If an adversary knows the \nplaintext of a message, he can change it into any other message. \nHere's how it works.\n\nAlice is sending Bob a plaintext P, under a key stream S\nAlice computes the ciphertext C = S xor P, and sends it to Bob.\n\nEve knows the plainext P, but wants the message to appear as P'.\nEve intercepts C, and computes C' = C xor P xor P' = S xor P'.\nEve sends C' to Bob.\n\nBob decrypts C' by computing C'xor S = P', thus receiving the \nfalse message which was substituted by Eve.\n\n\nNow the question is how can this attack be defeated with information\ntheoretic security, not just computational security.\nCan we define something like \"ideal authentication\" which is the\nanalog of ideal security. Can we obtain ideal authentication ?\n\nIf not, how much can we limit Eve's control over the message ?\n\nIf we can achieve ideal authentication, does the solution use more\nkey bits or expand the message ? Can we show the solution to be\noptimal in one or more parameters ?\n\nDoes anyone know if these questions have been aswered before ?", "If Clipper comes to cellular phones along with legal proscriptions against\nusing other cipher systems on these phones, a new and potentially dangerous\nclass of crime is created.\n\nCriminals who very badly want inscrutable tactical communications (specifically\nthe terrorists and drug dealers who proponents of key escrow cite as threats)\nwill be highly motivated to steal the cipher phone of a legitimate user, and\nto kill this person or hold them hostage so discovery of compromise of the\ndevice will be delayed.\n\nOnce a suitable collection of devices is stolen, criminals can communicate\nwith impunity (assuming the cipher system carries no trapdoors apart from\nkey escrow) until and unless the compromise is discovered by some other means.\n\nBecause life-is-cheap criminals are currently willing to kill people to steal\nvery large and conspicuous property (luxury cars), it is reasonable to assume\nthat they will be willing to kill people to steal small and inconspicuous\nproperty (a cipher cellular phone). Just as we have seen in the past with\n\"blue box\" technology, and in the present with modified cellular phones,\nwe can expect to see among high-stakes criminals a lucrative market for\nstolen cipher phones which can be used for a few days. The high-stakes\ncriminals will pay the life-is-cheap types substantial amounts for stolen\ninstruments.\n\nBecause a person is typically discovered as missing or dead in a few days,\na stolen instrument will be usable for only a few days. There will be a\ncontinuing demand for fresh phones: fresh bodies.\n\nIn other words, Clipper and similar systems have the potential to turn a\ncurrent inconvenience to law enforcement into a direct, vicious, and\npersistent threat to the general public.\n\nOn the other hand, if a criminal were to apply some arbitrary cipher to a\ndevice in a mostly non-ciphered network, the communication will at least\nstand out as being unusual, and perhaps worthy of other means of investigation.\n\nFinally, because there is essentially no possibility of intercepting in\nrealtime the scrutable content of communications between stolen instruments,\nthere will exist strong motivation to record and archive _all_ communications\nin the network for ex-post-facto scrutiny (once some criminal act is discovered,\nand the instruments involved have been identified). While recording and\narchiving may not be feasible for wireline networks, it is probably feasible\nacross the more limited bandwidth of radio networks. The existence of these\nrecordings could open up vast potential for abuse.", "\nI cannot believe you can make these claims given hard evidence of\nabuse. Do you ignore stories about survellience of Martin Luther\nKing, have you blocked from your mind McCarthy's crusade in the 50's?\n\n\nAnd how many illegal wiretaps are performed? Funny, but I'll be that\nthe FBI doesn't keep statistics on these!\n\n\"confidential informer\" = illegal wiretap\n\n/-----------------------------------\\\n\\-----------------------------------/\n", "\nTry reading between the lines David - there are *strong* hints in there\nthat they're angling for NREN next, and the only conceivable meaning of\napplying this particular technology to a computer network is that they\nintend it to be used in exclusion to any other means of encryption.\n\nDon't be lulled by the wedge because its end looks so thin.", "Someone in Canada asked me to send him some public domain DES file\nencryption code I have. Is it legal for me to send it?\n\nThanx.\n--\nEschew Obfuscation\n\nRob deFriesse Mail: rj@ri.cadre.com\nCadre Technologies Inc. Phone: (401) 351-5950\n222 Richmond St. Fax: (401) 351-7380\nProvidence, RI 02903", "<\n< Some countries have laws about importing crypto gear--I believe the U.S.\n< does. Without a license the above scheme won't work (at least not legally)\n< in such countries, including at least France and the U.S.\n<\n< David\n<\nThe Attorney General publishes the number of court-ordered taps each year.\n [...]\n\n I believe you are mistaken. I don't believe the AG publishes the\n number of state wiretaps.\n\n - Carl\n\n -- \n Carl Kadie -- I do not represent any organization; this is just me.\n = kadie@cs.uiuc.edu =\n\nHmmm.... now if we could have *3* keys kept in escrow, with one of the \ngroups keeping a key being the government, then the states would need\nfederal permission to run a wiretap.... interesting possibility:-)\n", "\n\nAs usually, you are not reading. The proposal -does- say that it is a\n\"voluntary program\". This doesn't make it more desirable, though...\n\n\n\"Secure\"? How do you know? Because NSA is trying to make you believe it?\n\"Trust us.\" Yeah, right.\n\n\"Otherwise you are on your own\"? How do you know that tomorrow they\nwill not outlaw encrypring devices that don't use \"their\" technology?\nBecause they are promising you? Gee, they are not doing even that -\nread the proposal again.\n\nRegards,\nVesselin", " Just a question. \n As a provider of a public BBS service - aren't you bound by law to gurantee\n intelligble access to the data of the users on the BBS, if police comes\n with sufficent authorisation ? I guessed this would be a basic condition\n for such systems. (I did run a bbs some time ago, but that was in Switzerland)\n\nThe US doesn't yet have many laws covering BBSs - they're not common carriers,\nthey're not phone companies, they're just private machines or services\noperated by businesses. There's no obligation to keep records.\nAs Perry Metzger points out, if the police come with a search warrant,\nyou have to let them see what the warrant demands, if it exists,\nand they generally can confiscate the equipment as \"evidence\"\n(which is not Constitutionally valid, but we're only beginning to\ndevelop court cases supporting us). A court MAY be able to compel\nyou to tell them information you know, such as the encryption password\nfor the disk - there aren't any definitive cases yet, since it's a new\nsituation, and there probably aren't laws specifically covering it.\nBut the court can't force you to *know* the keys, and there are no\nlaws preventing you from allowing your users to have their own keys\nfor their own files without giving them to you.\n\nEven in areas that do have established law, there is uncertainty.\nThere was a guy in Idaho a few years ago who had his business records\nsubpoenaed as evidence for taxes or some other business-restriction law,\nso he gave the court the records. Which were in Hebrew.\nThe US doesn't have laws forcing you to keep your records in English,\nand these were the originals of the records. HE didn't speak Hebrew,\nand neither did anybody in the court organization. Don't think they\nwere able to do much about it.\n\nIt might be illegal for your BBS to deny access to potential customers\nbased on race, religion, national origin, gender, or sexual preference;\nit probably hasn't been tested in court, but it seems like a plausible\nextension of anti-discrimination laws affecting other businesses.\n\n", "\n\nSome countries have laws about importing crypto gear--I believe the U.S.\ndoes. Without a license the above scheme won't work (at least not legally)\nin such countries, including at least France and the U.S.\n\nDavid\n\n", "Gee, I guess they should also have such a repository for house keys,\ncar keys, safety deposit keys, ... :-(\n\nrdl", "\nThere's an out for him. The announcement talked about strong cryptography\nI believe. Specifically:\n\n\tnor is the U.S. saying that \"every\n American, as a matter of right, is entitled to an\n unbreakable commercial encryption product.\"\n\nEvery vendor claims his product is unbreakable -- so this was sloppy wording.\n\nI am not claiming that we private citizens should have access to the NSA's\nbest, secret algorithms. I don't want any NSA algorithms, actually.\n\nI'll let them break my pitiful amateur algorithms -- and RSA's.\n\nAll I want is what I have already -- the ability and right to invent and use\nmy own algorithms, share them with my friends and sell them.\n", " \n Not necessarily. I've been thinking about this, and if this chip/scheme\nis to provide any real security, there must be some sort of key exchange,\neither using a public-key encryption scheme, or using a key exchange scheme\nlike Diffie-Hellman. If there's an out-of-band transmission of a shared\nsession key, then what protects that band from eavesdropping? If the phone\ncompany or some other online central authority generates a session key and\nsends it to both users, then what's the point of going to the trouble of\nhaving some complicated key-depositories? Just ask the phone company for\na copy of the session key for each call.\n \n Now, it's probably not practical for each user to keep an online copy of\nevery public key used by anyone anywhere, right? So, probably, there will\nbe some way of getting these keys verified. This might be a digitally-\nsigned (by the chip manufacturer) copy of the public key in this unit,\nstored by this unit. It might also be an online directory with access to\neveryone's public keys. (This would introduce another weakness to the\nsecurity of the scheme, of course.) Presumably, if you don't use your\ndesignated key, you can't get a verified connection to other standard chips.\n \n It might be useful to have a modified chip, which would allow you to\nuse either the original public/private key pair, or some other key pair\nand verification scheme. Unfortunately, this would not allow you to call\nmost people and establish secure communications....", "[..stuff deleted]\n\nI can buy a DES keysearch machine off the shelf now for approx $500K, but\nit is not sold by that name. Go buy a circuit emulation machine (eg. Quickturn)\ncontaining a bunch of FPGAs, (say 500 to 1000 3090's), and program each\nto be a DES search engine. Lets say 500 chips, running at 10Mhz = 5G tests/sec.\nTime is 14e6 sec max = 23 weeks, 12 weeks average. Can't wait that long?\nBuy a bigger machine.\n", "[An article from comp.org.eff.news, EFFector Online 5.06 - Carl]\n\n April 16, 1993\n\n INITIAL EFF ANALYSIS OF CLINTON PRIVACY AND SECURITY \n PROPOSAL\n\n The Clinton Administration today made a major announcement \non cryptography policy which will effect the privacy and security of \nmillions of Americans. The first part of the plan is to begin a \ncomprehensive inquiry into major communications privacy issues \nsuch as export controls which have effectively denied most people \neasy access to robust encryption as well as law enforcement issues \nposed by new technology.\n\n However, EFF is very concerned that the Administration has \nalready reached a conclusion on one critical part of the inquiry, before \nany public comment or discussion has been allowed. Apparently, the \nAdministration is going to use its leverage to get all telephone \nequipment vendors to adopt a voice encryption standard developed \nby the National Security Agency. The so-called \"Clipper Chip\" is an \n80-bit, split key escrowed encryption scheme which will be built into \nchips manufactured by a military contractor. Two separate escrow \nagents would store users' keys, and be required to turn them over \nlaw enforcement upon presentation of a valid warrant. The \nencryption scheme used is to be classified, but they chips will be \navailable to any manufacturer for incorporation into their \ncommunications products.\n\n This proposal raises a number of serious concerns .\n\n First, the Administration appears to be adopting a solution \nbefore conducting an inquiry. The NSA-developed Clipper chip may \nnot be the most secure product. Other vendors or developers may \nhave better schemes. Furthermore, we should not rely on the \ngovernment as the sole source for Clipper or any other chips. Rather,\nindependent chip manufacturers should be able to produce chipsets \nbased on open standards.\n\n Second, an algorithm can not be trusted unless it can be tested. \nYet the Administration proposes to keep the chip algorithm \nclassified. EFF believes that any standard adopted ought to be public \nand open. The public will only have confidence in the security of a \nstandard that is open to independent, expert scrutiny. \n\n Third, while the use of the split-key, dual-escrowed \nsystem may prove to be a reasonable balance between privacy and \nlaw enforcement needs, the details of this scheme must be explored \npublicly before it is adopted. What will give people confidence in the \nsafety of their keys? Does disclosure of keys to a third party waive \nindividual's fifth amendment rights in subsequent criminal \ninquiries? \n\n In sum, the Administration has shown great sensitivity to the \nimportance of these issues by planning a comprehensive inquiry into \ndigital privacy and security. However, the \"Clipper chip\" solution \nought to be considered as part of the inquiry, not be adopted before \nthe discussion even begins.\n\nDETAILS OF THE PROPOSAL:\n\nESCROW\n\nThe 80-bit key will be divided between two escrow agents, each of \nwhom hold 40 bits of each key. Upon presentation of a valid \nwarrant, the two escrow agents would have to turn the key parts \nover to law enforcement agents. Most likely the Attorney General \nwill be asked to identify appropriate escrow agents. Some in the \nAdministration have suggested one non-law enforcement federal \nagency, perhaps the Federal Reserve, and one non-governmental \norganization. But, there is no agreement on the identity of the agents \nyet.\n\nKey registration would be done by the manufacturer of the \ncommunications device. A key is tied to the device, not to the person \nusing it.\n\nCLASSIFIED ALGORITHM AND THE POSSIBILITY OF BACK DOORS\n\nThe Administration claims that there are no back door means by \nwhich the government or others could break the code without \nsecuring keys from the escrow agents and that the President will \nbe told there are no back doors to this classified algorithm. In order \nto prove this, Administration sources are interested in arranging for \nan all-star crypto cracker team to come in, under a security \narrangement, and examine the algorithm for trap doors. The results \nof the investigation would then be made public.\n\nGOVERNMENT AS MARKET DRIVER\n\nIn order to get a market moving, and to show that the government \nbelieves in the security of this system, the feds will be the first big \ncustomers for this product. Users will include the FBI, Secret Service, \nVP Al Gore, and maybe even the President. \n\nFROM MORE INFORMATION CONTACT:\n\nJerry Berman, Executive Director\nDaniel J. Weitzner, Senior Staff Counsel\n\n\n\n\n", "\nJust a question. \nAs a provider of a public BBS service - aren't you bound by law to gurantee\nintelligble access to the data of the users on the BBS, if police comes\nwith sufficent authorisation ? I guessed this would be a basic condition\nfor such systems. (I did run a bbs some time ago, but that was in Switzerland)\n\nFriendly greetings,\n\tGermano Caronni", "\n\nIt has actually come up (or it will in a week or two) in NZ. I'll post the\noutcome when the trial finishes (which could take months BTW). Overall it\nlooks like you can't be forced to reveal a password, if anyone can provide\na convincing legal argument to the contrary (ie an actual court case) I'd\nbe most interested...\n\nPeter.", "I've got an idea that would remove most of the political complaints\nI have about the Clipper chip. Pass a law stating that if, within a\nyear of performaing a wiretap on someone, a police agency hasn't\nmanaged to convict the suspect of the crime the warrant/wiretap was for,\nthen that agency owes the suspect $1 million to repay him/her for\nlost privacy.\n Of course, there are *still* problems with the technical aspects of\nClipper, and with the one-size-fits-all mentality that would be behind\nan attempt to enforce it as a standard. But this would be a way for\nthose in favor of allowing continued wiretaps to assure us that it will\nonly be used in cases where the crime is important and the police are\nall but certain that there really will be a conviction....", "\nThis is an addition (posted with permission) to some tech. details of\ncliper. They enligthen ??? the use of S1 and S2 for keygeneration.\n-------------------------------------------\nDate: Mon, 19 Apr 93 08:51:57 EDT\nFrom: denning@cs.cosc.georgetown.edu (Dorothy Denning)\nSubject: Re: Clipper Chip\n\nI just had another conversation with NSA to clarify some of the features\nof Clipper. Please feel free to distribute this and my other messages\non Clipper.\n\nThe name of the encryption algorithm is \"Skipjack.\"\n\nMartin Hellman had written\n\n and the serial number of the unit added to produce a three part\n message which will then be encrypted under the system key SK\n producing\n\n E{ E[M; K], E[K; UK], serial number; SK}\n\nTo which I responded:\n\n My understanding is that E[M; K] is not encrypted under SK (called the\n \"family key\") and that the decrypt key corresponding to SK is held by\n law enforcement. Does anyone have first hand knowledge on this?\n\nI was correct in that E[M; K] is not encrypted under SK. However, Skipjack\nbeing a single-key system, there is, of course, not a separate decrypt key\nfor the family key SK.\n\n The unit key, also called the \"chip key,\" is generated from the\n serial number N as follows. Let N1, N2, and N3 be 64 bit blocks\n derived from N, and let S1 and S2 be two 80-bit seeds used as keys.\n Compute the 64-bit block\n\n R1 = E[D[E[N1; S1]; S2]; S1]\n\n (Note that this is like using the DES in triple encryption mode with\n two keys.) Similarly compute blocks R2 and R3 starting with N2 and N3.\n (I'm unlear about whether the keys S1 and S2 change. The fact that\n they're called seeds suggests they might.) Then R1, R2, and R3 are\n concatenated together giving 192 bits. The first 80 bits form K1 and\n the next 80 bits form K2. The remaining bits are discarded.\n\nThe seeds S1 and S2 do not change. The whole process is performed on\na laptop computer, and S1 and S2 are supplied by two independent people\nso that no one person knows both. The same S1 and S2 are used during\nan entire \"programming session\" to generate keys for a stream of serial\nnumbers. Everything is discarded at the end (the computer could be\nthrown out if desired).\n\nThe serial number is 30 bits and the values N1, N2, and N3 are formed\nby padding the serial number with fixed 34-bit blocks (separate padding\nfor each value).\n\nThe resulting keys K1 and K2 are output onto separate floppy disks, paired\nup with their serial number. Each pair is stored in a separate file. The\nfloppy disks are taken away by two separate people on behalf of the two\nescrow agencies.\n\nDorothy Denning\ndenning@cs.georgetown.edu\n\n--------------------------------------------------------\nI am sure more technical detail will be known when time goes by.\nPlease remark, that in posting this, I do not automatically agree\nwith it's contents and implications. So don't swamp my mailbox :-)\n\nI just think this is an valuable addition to the less than technical\ndiscussion that is rising here. And, no, I don't mind if you call\nS1 and S2 'backdoor', as I could imagine the key-generation process\nworking without these seeds and the dependency of K1,K2 from the\nSerial-Number.\n\n\nFriendly greetings,\n\n\tGermano Caronni", "I am eager to hear the legal theory behind restricting exchange of\ncryptographic data and encrypted messages, given the first admendment;\nthe theory behind regulating the *personal* encryption of one's personal\n*thoughts and feelings* seems even less tenable.\n\nPerhaps if we make a *treaty* with, say, Iceland, to restrict crypto\nparaphernalia can a good \"end run\" around the Constitution happen...\n(Treaties -- as someone pointed out -- has the force of any other \"law of\nthe land\". Like the Bill of Rights.)\n\n\n Amendment 1\n\n Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or\nprohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,\nor of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to\npetition the Government for a redress of grievances.\n\n Amendment 2\n\n A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,\nthe right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.\n\n Amendment 3\n\n No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the\nconsent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed\nby law.\n\n Amendment 4\n\n The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and\neffects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated,\nand no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or\naffirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the\npersons or things to be seized.\n\n Amendment 5\n\n No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous\ncrime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in\ncases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in\nactual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be\nsubject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb;\nnor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against\nhimself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process\nof law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just\ncompensation.\n\n\nWell -- at least for a few minutes we had some privacy...", "\nI recall seeing a post some time ago saying that if the details of\nan encryption scheme couldn't be revealed, then the encryption\nscheme is worthless. I believe the statement was in response to\nsomebody saying that they had some new snazzy scheme, but the\nalgorithm was a secret.\n\nDoes this algorithm depend on the fact that the scheme is secret or\nis it for the stated reasons above?\n", " >in the field who might be able to find out haven't yet done their\n >review of the chip design, and there's been a lot of wild speculation\n >and guesswork from those with little information that it might be\n >Swiss cheese.\n\n Oh, that puts the debate on -excellent- terms for our side:\n\n FEDS: You people saying that Clipper is insecure don't have any real\ninformation to support that judgment.\n ME: Fine -- show me this \"information\" that would prove me wrong.\n FEDS: That's secret!", "\n\nHmmmmmm. $30 seems a bit expensive. How big is the chip? What kind\nof packages will be used? 3 volt or 5 volt technology? How much\ncurrent will it draw? I think there are many practical questions\nthat haven't been answered, especially since this chip already exists!\n\n\nOK, I've got a big problem with all of this. How in the world do you\nexpect to sell these chips for even $30 after all the overhead involved\nin this programming procedure? 2-4 people, a laptop, only 300 chips at \na time: give me a break. And how long does all of this take? Even if\nit is a minute per chip, it will take the greater part of a day to \nturn out 300 of these things. How long do you suppose it will take to\nprogram those 10,000 chips mentioned above? This is highly impractical!\n\n\nSo where can I find info on this AT&T device? What kind of vocoder\ndoes it use? Does it require ISDN phone lines? If not, is it full\nduplex? How does it sound? What kind of synchronization scheme is\nused? Will all other little black boxes have to conform to AT&Ts choices\nof protocol, etc.? Will anybody else be allowed to build boxes that\nconform to these specifications?\n\n", "Here is a revised version of my summary which corrects some errors\nand provides some additional information and explanation.\n\n\n THE CLIPPER CHIP: A TECHNICAL SUMMARY\n\n Dorothy Denning\n\n Revised, April 21, 1993\n\n\nINTRODUCTION\n\nOn April 16, the President announced a new initiative that will bring\ntogether the Federal Government and industry in a voluntary program\nto provide secure communications while meeting the legitimate needs of\nlaw enforcement. At the heart of the plan is a new tamper-proof encryption\nchip called the \"Clipper Chip\" together with a split-key approach to\nescrowing keys. Two escrow agencies are used, and the key parts from\nboth are needed to reconstruct a key.\n\n\nCHIP CONTENTS\n\nThe Clipper Chip contains a classified single-key 64-bit block\nencryption algorithm called \"Skipjack.\" The algorithm uses 80 bit keys\n(compared with 56 for the DES) and has 32 rounds of scrambling\n(compared with 16 for the DES). It supports all 4 DES modes of\noperation. The algorithm takes 32 clock ticks, and in Electronic\nCodebook (ECB) mode runs at 12 Mbits per second.\n\nEach chip includes the following components:\n\n the Skipjack encryption algorithm\n F, an 80-bit family key that is common to all chips\n N, a 30-bit serial number (this length is subject to change)\n U, an 80-bit secret key that unlocks all messages encrypted with the chip\n\nThe chips are programmed by Mykotronx, Inc., which calls them the\n\"MYK-78.\" The silicon is supplied by VLSI Technology Inc. They are\nimplemented in 1 micron technology and will initially sell for about\n$30 each in quantities of 10,000 or more. The price should drop as the\ntechnology is shrunk to .8 micron.\n\n\nENCRYPTING WITH THE CHIP\n\nTo see how the chip is used, imagine that it is embedded in the AT&T\ntelephone security device (as it will be). Suppose I call someone and\nwe both have such a device. After pushing a button to start a secure\nconversation, my security device will negotiate an 80-bit session key K\nwith the device at the other end. This key negotiation takes place\nwithout the Clipper Chip. In general, any method of key exchange can\nbe used such as the Diffie-Hellman public-key distribution method.\n\nOnce the session key K is established, the Clipper Chip is used to\nencrypt the conversation or message stream M (digitized voice). The\ntelephone security device feeds K and M into the chip to produce two\nvalues:\n\n E[M; K], the encrypted message stream, and \n E[E[K; U] + N; F], a law enforcement field , \n\nwhich are transmitted over the telephone line. The law enforcement\nfield thus contains the session key K encrypted under the unit key U\nconcatenated with the serial number N, all encrypted under the family\nkey F. The law enforcement field is decrypted by law enforcement after\nan authorized wiretap has been installed.\n\nThe ciphertext E[M; K] is decrypted by the receiver's device using the\nsession key:\n\n D[E[M; K]; K] = M .\n\n\nCHIP PROGRAMMING AND ESCROW\n\nAll Clipper Chips are programmed inside a SCIF (Secure Compartmented\nInformation Facility), which is essentially a vault. The SCIF contains\na laptop computer and equipment to program the chips. About 300 chips\nare programmed during a single session. The SCIF is located at\nMykotronx.\n\nAt the beginning of a session, a trusted agent from each of the two key\nescrow agencies enters the vault. Agent 1 enters a secret, random\n80-bit value S1 into the laptop and agent 2 enters a secret, random\n80-bit value S2. These random values serve as seeds to generate unit\nkeys for a sequence of serial numbers. Thus, the unit keys are a\nfunction of 160 secret, random bits, where each agent knows only 80.\n \nTo generate the unit key for a serial number N, the 30-bit value N is\nfirst padded with a fixed 34-bit block to produce a 64-bit block N1.\nS1 and S2 are then used as keys to triple-encrypt N1, producing a\n64-bit block R1:\n\n R1 = E[D[E[N1; S1]; S2]; S1] .\n\nSimilarly, N is padded with two other 34-bit blocks to produce N2 and\nN3, and two additional 64-bit blocks R2 and R3 are computed: \n\n R2 = E[D[E[N2; S1]; S2]; S1] \n R3 = E[D[E[N3; S1]; S2]; S1] .\n\nR1, R2, and R3 are then concatenated together, giving 192 bits. The\nfirst 80 bits are assigned to U1 and the second 80 bits to U2. The\nrest are discarded. The unit key U is the XOR of U1 and U2. U1 and U2\nare the key parts that are separately escrowed with the two escrow\nagencies.\n\nAs a sequence of values for U1, U2, and U are generated, they are\nwritten onto three separate floppy disks. The first disk contains a\nfile for each serial number that contains the corresponding key part\nU1. The second disk is similar but contains the U2 values. The third\ndisk contains the unit keys U. Agent 1 takes the first disk and agent\n2 takes the second disk. Thus each agent walks away knowing\nan 80-bit seed and the 80-bit key parts. However, the agent does not\nknow the other 80 bits used to generate the keys or the other 80-bit\nkey parts. \n\nThe third disk is used to program the chips. After the chips are\nprogrammed, all information is discarded from the vault and the agents\nleave. The laptop may be destroyed for additional assurance that no\ninformation is left behind.\n \nThe protocol may be changed slightly so that four people are in the\nroom instead of two. The first two would provide the seeds S1 and S2,\nand the second two (the escrow agents) would take the disks back to\nthe escrow agencies. \n\nThe escrow agencies have as yet to be determined, but they will not\nbe the NSA, CIA, FBI, or any other law enforcement agency. One or\nboth may be independent from the government.\n\n\nLAW ENFORCEMENT USE\n\nWhen law enforcement has been authorized to tap an encrypted line, they\nwill first take the warrant to the service provider in order to get\naccess to the communications line. Let us assume that the tap is in\nplace and that they have determined that the line is encrypted with the\nClipper Chip. The law enforcement field is first decrypted with the\nfamily key F, giving E[K; U] + N. Documentation certifying that a tap\nhas been authorized for the party associated with serial number N is\nthen sent (e.g., via secure FAX) to each of the key escrow agents, who\nreturn (e.g., also via secure FAX) U1 and U2. U1 and U2 are XORed\ntogether to produce the unit key U, and E[K; U] is decrypted to get the\nsession key K. Finally the message stream is decrypted. All this will\nbe accomplished through a special black box decoder.\n\n\nCAPSTONE: THE NEXT GENERATION\n\nA successor to the Clipper Chip, called \"Capstone\" by the government\nand \"MYK-80\" by Mykotronx, has already been developed. It will include\nthe Skipjack algorithm, the Digital Signature Standard (DSS), the\nSecure Hash Algorithm (SHA), a method of key exchange, a fast\nexponentiator, and a randomizer. A prototoype will be available for\ntesting on April 22, and the chips are expected to be ready for\ndelivery in June or July.\n", "\nI have a question that is a slight variation on the previously mentioned\nexamples that perhaps people could give me some pointers on (it has been a\ncouple of years since my Con Law class in college so I hope I am not\nmissing something obvious here...)\n\nBasic Scenario:\n\n\tI set up a bbs that uses public-key encryption and encryption of\n\tfiles on disk. The general setup is designed so that when users \n\tconnect they send a private key encrypted using the system public\n\tkey and the user's public-private keypair is used to wrap the\n\tone-time session keys used for encrypting the files on disk. The\n\tresult of this is that even if I reveal the system private key it\n\tis impossible for anyone to gain access to the files stored on the\n\tmachine. What is possible is for someone to use the revealed\n\tsystem private key to entice users into revealing thier personal\n\tprivate keys during the authentication sequence.\n\nQuestions:\n\n\tDoes the fact that the system private key does not provide any\n\tinformation useful for a search give me any protection as far as\n\tbeing coerced to reveal the key? (I doubt it myself..)\n\n\tIt seems providing the system private key does not mean that I am\n\tassisting in \"entrapment\" (the users would send thier key anyway\n\tand are not being enticed into doing something they would not\n\totherwise do) but is there any other hook that can be used?\n\n\tWould the user private-key enticement require wiretap approval?\n\nAny answers or general musings on the subject would be appreciated...\n\njim", "[...]\n\n[...]\n\nI was a cryptologic tech in the US Navy (CTRSN, nothing big). All 'spooks'\nin the Navy are required to know the \"gist\" of \"USSID 18\", the Navy-way of\nnaming a particular Presidential \"Executive Order\". It outlines what spooks\ncan and can't do with respect to the privacy of US nationals.\n\nThe following information is (of course) UNCLASSIFIED.\n\nThe whole issue hangs about what you mean by \"wiretap\". If the signal can\nbe detected by \"non-intrusive\" means (like radio listening), then it may be\nrecorded and it may be \"analyzed\". \"Analyzed\" means that it may be either\ndeciphered and/or radio-location may be used to locate the transmitter.\n\nThe catch is this: Any and all record of the signal and its derivatives\nmay only be kept for a maximum of 90 days, after which they are destroyed\nunless permission is obtained from the US Attorney General to keep them.\n\nDidn't you ever wonder how Coast Guard cutters *find* those drug-runners\nin all those tens of thousands of square miles of sea, even in the dark?!?", "a\nfollow-on\n\nGlenn,\n\nThanks for posting that. I was surprised to notice, however, that one\nquestion I might have expected to be asked was not: \"Are all forms of\nstrong encryption other than the Clipper to be made illegal?\" Speaking\nof which, is anyone aware of whether that question *has* been asked of\nany knowledgeable or official spokesperson for the government? I have\nnot yet seen it mentioned in any of a dozen places it might have been\nreported, but I could have easily missed it.", "\nAssume in this case the usual canard-adversary of narcotraficantes. They\nprobably have more cash than the KGB did, and they're probably more generous\nat handing it out. It will be easier than ever to find or cultivate Walkers\nand Pollards for the keys, and it will be easy enough to find someone to\nreverse-engineer the chip (unless the tamper proofing is damned clever and\neffective).", "\n\n\n\nNo, Mathew is proposing a public defence mechanism, not treating the\nelectronic device as an impropriety on the wearer. What he is saying is that\nthe next step beyond what you propose is the permanent bugging of potential\ncriminals. This may not, on the surface, sound like a bad thing, but who\ndefines what a potential criminal is? If the government of the day decides\nthat being a member of an opposition party makes you a potential criminal\nthen openly defying the government becomes a lethal practice, this is not\nconducive to a free society.\n\nMathew is saying that implanting electronic surveillance devices upon people\nis an impropriety upon that person, regardless of what type of crime or\nwhat chance of recidivism there is. Basically you see the criminal justice\nsystem as a punishment for the offender and possibly, therefore, a deterrant\nto future offenders. Mathew sees it, most probably, as a means of\nrehabilitation for the offender. So he was being cynical at you, okay?", "\n\nONLY IF this chip catches on. Which means alternatives have to be\ndeveloped. Which will only happen if Clipper is discredited.\n", "I am writing an article on Clipper for Network World. I am looking for\ncomments and opinions (that I can quote) on the scheme, its implications\nfor security and privacy, its acceptance here and overseas, etc. \n\nI hope this to be a balenced article, with opinions from various quarters.\nThe only catch is that your name and company affiliation will appear in\nprint.\n\nI am on very tight deadline (I need to finish this Wednesday night). Please\ncall or E-Mail responses.", "\nThe CLIPPER initiative is an announcement by Clinton that all the \n\"secure\" voice phones will use the same crypto chip, as a de-facto\ngovernment standard. Problem is, the government is admitting that\nthey hold the keys to break the code easily, and the Justice department\nwill be using the keys to listen in on \"illegal activities.\" Many\npeople are really scared about such an initiative because it is\na major step towards outlawing real crypto protection on things\nlike email if you read the press release. The project was developed\nby NSA and given to NIST. It uses two keys S1 and S2 that the\ngovernment claims are needed to break the code. They claim that\nthese keys will be handed to two different companies, and when they\nget a warrant to do a wiretap (the chip is nicknamed the wiretap chip),\nthey have to get the keys from both companies. People have poked holes\nthrough and through the press release official version and shown how\nit is nowhere near as nice as it sounds, and I have given the simplified\nversion. People over on sci.crypt are really scared about this\nproposal it seems.", "\n\nIs the sending of encrypted traffic without government permission legal in\nNew Zealand?\n\nDavid", "\nThis way to detect pre-encryption may be defeated ; one can do \ntransformation of the spectrum of encrypted signal just by adding some \npre-arranged (in the beginning of communication) function.\nI think so. Say, you can do FFT of your encrypted signal.\nJust thinking ... \n\n-- \n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n For PGP2.1 public key finger mkagalen@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu", "Having read the various \"Clipper\" announcements on the net over the last few \ndays and a LOT of uninformed speculation about the chip, its uses,\ngovernment plots, etc, I have the following questions.\n\n 1) What does the \"Clipper chip\" actually implement? Just the Skipjack\n\tcryptographic algorithm? Or does it also implement a \"chip to chip\"\n\tcommunications protocol? If it does implement a communications\n\tprotocol, can it be used as just a \"crypt chip\" also.\n\n 2) Where can the chip specifications and spec sheets be obtained?\n\n 3) Who may purchase them and under what conditions?\n\n 4) Are there restrictions as to how the chip may be used in a system?\n\n 5) The security of the algorithm and the encrypted communications does\n\tnot appear to require that the \"Family key\" be a secret. Why is\n\tit a secret? What happens when the \"family key\" becomes well known?\n\tIf it's a secret to make traffic analysis more difficult, does\n\tthe \"Law enforcement message\" contain any random information?\n\tHow much and how random is it?\n\n 6) Can the chip be programmed to reveal the \"Unit key\"? The chip \"serial\n\tnumber\"? Any of the programming parameters?\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nRaymond S. Brand\t\t\t\t\trbrand@usasoc.soc.mil", "I recently published a new privacy-protecting off-line electronic cash\nsystem as a technical report at CWI. Being a PhD-student at David\nChaum's cryptography-group, our group has a long history in research\nin the field of privacy-protecting cash systems.\n\nThe report is called CS-R9323.ps.Z, contains 77 pages, and can be\nretrieved from\n\nftp.cwi.nl (192.16.184.180)\n\nfrom the directory pub/CWIreports/AA.\nThe postscript-file is suitable for 300dpi laserprinters.\n\n====================================================================\nABSTRACT (from coverpage): We present a new off-line electronic cash\nsystem based on a problem, called the representation problem, of which\nlittle use has been made in literature thus far. Our system is the\nfirst to be based entirely on discrete logarithms. Using the\nrepresentation problem as a basic concept, some techniques are\nintroduced that enable us to construct protocols for withdrawal and\npayment that do not use the cut and choose methodology of earlier\nsystems. As a consequence, our cash system is much more efficient in\nboth computation and communication complexity than any such system\nproposed previously.\n \nAnother important aspect of our system concerns its provability.\nContrary to previously proposed systems, its correctness can be\nmathematically proven to a very great extent. Specifically, if we\nmake one plausible assumption concerning a single hash-function, the\nability to break the system seems to imply that one can break the\nDiffie-Hellman problem. \n \nOur system offers a number of extensions that are hard to achieve in\npreviously known systems. In our opinion the most interesting of these\nis that the entire cash system (including all the extensions) can be\nincorporated in a setting based on wallets with observers, which has\nthe important advantage that double-spending can be prevented in the\nfirst place, rather than detecting the identity of a double-spender\nafter the fact. In particular, it can be incorporated even under the\nmost stringent requirements conceivable about the privacy of the user,\nwhich seems to be impossible to do with previously proposed systems.\nAnother benefit of our system is that framing attempts by a bank have\nnegligible probability of success (independent of computing power) by\na simple mechanism from within the system, which is something that\nprevious solutions lack entirely. Furthermore, the basic cash system\ncan be extended to checks, multi-show cash and divisibility, while\nretaining its computational efficiency.\n====================================================================\n\nCryptographers are challenged to try to break this system! \n\nI made a particular effort to keep the report as self-contained as\npossible. Nevertheless, if you have any questions, please e-mail to\nme and I will try to reply as good as I can. Any comments are also\nwelcome!\n\nStefan Brands, ", "Though some may argue about the nose of the camel, it's worth noting that\nthe government proposal is limited to scrambled telephony. If it is only\nused for that purpose, and does not extend to electronic mail or file\nencryption, then it IS an improvement over the current mass-produced\nstandard civilian technology which, with a few exceptions, is limited to\neasy-to-break inverters.\n\nNote that the big issue for the feds is the continued ability to wiretap.\nBefore we go off the deep end with long discusions about secure crypto for\ne-mail and files, let's focus on this.\n\nOne question that was not asked in the release is whether this proposal is\nlimited to telephony, or if the government intends to expand it.\n\nThough I share many of the concerns expressed by some, I find the proposal\nless threatening than many others, since right now most Americans have no\nsecure telephony, and any jerk with a pair of clip leads and a \"goat\" can\neavesdrop. This would also plug up the security hole in cellular and\ncordless phones.\n\n-------\n\nReading between the lines, I infer that the system is highly secure\nwithout access to the keys. This would meet the needs of U.S. businesses\nconfronted by rich and powerful adversaries, including French and Japanese\nsecurity services and rich Japanese companies. It allows the NSA to make\navailable some of its better stuff while protecting law enforcement needs.\n\nMost legitimate U.S. corporations trust the NSA, and would be delighted to\nhave a high-security system certified by them, even at the price of\ndepositing keys in escrow. I see no difficulty in creating a reliable\nescrow. Corporations entrust their secrets to attorneys every day of the\nweek, and that system has worked pretty well.\n\nFrom my point of view this is a fair starting point. There are concerns that\nneed to be addressed, including the reliability of the escrows. But in\nreturn we get access to high-security crypto. Many have suggested that DES\nand other systems may be breakable by the NSA and hence others similarly\nskilled and endowed. There is at least a good possibility (which should be\nchecked) that the proposed system is not so breakable. It doesn't have to\nbe, nor does it have to have trapdoors, if the government can get the keys\npursuant to a legitimate court order. Thus they can protect legitimate\ncommunications against economic adversaries, while still being able to\neavesdrop on crooks pursuant to a court order.\n\n------\n\nIn discussing this, let's try to avoid the nastiness, personal attacks and\nnoise of some previous threads. This is a substantive and technical issue,\nand personal remarks have no place in such a discussion.\n", "\n\nUh, I'm afraid that your information is slightly out of date... PKWare\nhas obtained a license to export their program to the whole world,\nexcept a very limited list of countries... Draw your own conclusions\nabout the strength of the algorithm... :-)\n\nRegards,\nVesselin", "\n\nDoesn't matter if we assume they are obeying the law, since they won't have\nhad a court order to tap calls prior to the date of the court order, and\nthus won't have them available.\n\nIf they aren't obeying the law, we are in an entirely different discussion,\nin which this is the least of one's worries.\n\nDavid", "Thus said ee92jks@brunel.ac.uk (Jonathan K Saville):\n\nPGP is not available on the archive site rsa.com. If it were, it\nwould be highly amusing, since rsa.com (actually Public Key Partners,\nbut it's the same entity) is the organization holding the patents\nwhich they claim are violated if you actually \"make, use or sell\" PGP.\nI believe those patents also apply in Canada, but I'm not a patent\nlawyer or anything.\n\nThere is no such thing as freely redistributable code for RSA which\ncan be used in North America without legal entanglements. You may\nwish to consider RSAREF, however, which *is* available from the FTP\nsite rsa.com in /rsaref but probably doesn't meet your definition of\n\"freely redistributable\" (it's readily available in source, in C, and\ndoes RSA, MD5, etc. and comes with a license allowing noncommercial\nuse. Like any other strong crypto software, it's not exportable\nlegally. It can be modified with permission from RSADSI, which a\nnumber of people have received in the past.) For reasons that aren't\nentirely clear to me, RSA says that only U.S. people should take\nRSAREF from its server, although there aren't ITAR issues regarding\nCanada. The RIPEM distribution site (ripem.msu.edu) has RSAREF in its\ndistribution, and is OK for Canadians.\n--\nMarc VanHeyningen mvanheyn@cs.indiana.edu MIME & RIPEM accepted\n", "\nSince the FBI's account of what happened is being contradicted on an\nincreasingly frequent basis by other officials investigating the\nfire, the most pernicious idea of all is believing that Big Brother\nis going to be well-behaved with respect to cryptographic keys.\n\nIn light of the very serious allegations with respect to the DOJ\nselling software to various other intelligence services, what do\nyou suppose the chances are of some future DOJ selling escrowed\nkeys to business firms?\n\nTrusting the government to be honest and fair is putting the \nfox in charge of protecting the chickens.\n\n", "\nI must respectfully disagree with this assertion, Brad. The government is\nnotoriously sloppy with physical, communications, and information security. They\ncan't keep their computers safe, and they're \"trying\". Read \"DEA is\nNot Adequately Protecting National Security Information\" [GAO/IMTEC 92-31] for an\nexcellent example of what I'm talking about.\n\nPrivate sector organizations tend to be even more lax in their security measures.\nI believe that the escrow organizations will be penetrated by foreign\nintelligence services within months, if not weeks, of their selection. Private\norganizations that lack the resources of a full-fleged intelligence service will\ntake longer - perhaps on the order of one to two years. Nonetheless, the\npenetrations will take place, without question.", "How about this: The\nTelCo has your Clipper key. The TelCo\nhas your intended partner's key, if he is\nusing one. Whenever you call, the message\ngets decrypted and reencrypted wihtout\ny key exchange. I know it's a stupid\nsystem, but for the feds, it'd be\ngreat. The point of this isn;t to\ntake over the crypto market, BTW. Clinton\ndoen not want people to have any sort of crypto at\nall (just like Busch). But he needs some support\nfor the \"technology initiative\" garbage he's\npushing (industrial policy stuff) and a computer\nhip designed by the gov't is just the thing.\n\nWho's going to thing about the (literal) Billions of\nDollars it took for a government agency to design?", "\tBecause everyone but you expects that making alternative methods of \n\tencryption illegal is the next step. Otherwise the Cripple chip is \n\tutterly worthless. It should be obvious that \n\t\ta) the Cripple Chip is aimed at spying on ordinary citizens\n\t\t\t\tOR\n\t\tb) that other forms of encryption will soon be illegal.", "This may be a stupid question, but how does the government know which keys\nto ask for?\n\nWill owners be required to REGISTER their phones, faxes, modems, etc.,\nand inform the government when they are moved to a different phone number?\nWill there be penalities if the public does not do this? Will identification\n(the National Health Care ID, perhaps) be required when purchasing a\nClipper-equipted phone?\n\nOr will each chip transmit identifying information at the start of\na conversation? Identification which could be used to automatically\nlog who calls whom? (The _phone_ company keeps records, but this \ninformation would be accessable by a well-placed van near a microwave\nrelay station).\n\nThis raises the question of how the two phones agree on a communications\nencryption key. Will it be something that is derived from information\nexchanged at the start of the conversation -- and hence derivable by\nan eavesdropper?\n", " >Remember that they've promised to let a committee of outside experts see\n >the cryptosystem design.\n\n I hope there are some silicon jocks on the committee who can follow\n the algorithm through to hardware. While I doubt the NSA would pull\n any monkey business on this point -- they have to expect that the\n chip will be reverse-engineered sooner or later -- it's an obvious\n opportunity to introduce additional holes.\n\nThe chip isn't the place to pull the monkey business - you do it in\nthe key generation, either by having a mathematical backdoor,\nor by having the program on the laptop that supposedly generates the\nkeys also save a copy of S1 and S2 and leak it out somehow,\nor by having the program that supposedly puts the official keys\non the chip actually put a *different* key there (VERY hard to detect,\nsince the escrow agents have to either trust the NSA laptop or\ngive each other the S* keys, and they still don't know the algorithm.)\nOr have the chip-burner at the factory make copies of the keys.\nOr whatever.", "\n\nExcuse me? This has *already* happened. There's a couple of humps in\nthe tent already. Ask the folks at Qualcomm what became of the\nnon-trivial encryption scheme they proposed for use in their CDMA\ndigitial cellular phone standard? There *already* are restrictions in\nplace.", "Why are people willing to trust the STU-III?\nBecause the government does?\n", "In the article \"At last! Now you can talk to your computer.\" in the May\nissue of FORTUNE magazine, it was mentioned that phoneme prediction\nused Hidden Markov Modeling. This was the statistical method that Markov\ndeveloped to predict letter sequences in Pushkin's novel, _Eugene Onegin_.\nIt was then said that this technique worked so well that the NSA used\nit to crack codes.\nDoes anyone have any references for HMM and how the NSA used it?\nOr is this just an extension of the letter frequency tables that we\nare all using anyway?", "\nThere are companies (one in Canada, as I recall) which specialize in\nanalyzing chips to understand process technology, design rules,\n... to understand the probable yield of the assembly line making them,\nand therefore the probable current cost and possible future cost curves,\ngiven design shrinks, statistical quality control -> better yields, etc.\n\nTaiwanese, Japanese and especially Korean semiconductor manufacturers\nhave all (korea continues) reverse-engineered foreign chips and\nproduced the chip. Taiwan and Japan have signed intellectual\nproperty treaties, and now at least extract the gate/transitor level\ndesign before laying the chip out again. The koreans still\nuse mask-level copying, I believe. At least, they are under a lot\nof pressure to pass laws to meet international intellectual property\nstandards.\n\nAll this despite lots of attempts to hide the designs. There are lots\nof techniques to do so in both hardware and software design.\n\nFor a complex chip, there will be real intellectual effort extracting\nthe gate design from the transistor design, and the algorithm from\nthe gate design. But it won't take two smart guys even 6 months, working\n40 hour weeks. Koreans work 60 or more 8)\n\nLew", "I just posted this reply to comp.risks (answering RISKS DIGEST 14.53).\nSummary: Re: [14.53 Mark Seecof] \"key escrow\"\n\n\n\nIt is tempting (albeit chauvinistic) to believe that we have a new situation\nhere, thanks to our pet computers. This is not true. David Kahn's \"The\nCodebreakers\", a history of cryptography, makes two things obvious:\n\n1.\tCryptography is a spontaneous invention of private human individuals\n\tand has been going on for thousands of years. [Teen-age slang and\n\tcipher inventions provide a modern example of this spontaneous\n\tcreation.]\n\n2.\tThe systems people created on their own were roughly as secure as (and\n\tsometimes more secure than) those used by military and diplomatic\n\tusers *of that time* (although they seem very simple and insecure\n\ttoday). [e.g., In places, the Bible used a more complex simple\n\tsubstitution than Caesar did for his military dispatches, but before\n\tCaesar.]\n\nI commend Kahn's book to all who might be interested.\n", "There is a description of something called a \"fair crypto system\" in the\nMay 1993 issue of BYTE, p. 134, attributed to MIT professor Silvio Micali.\n\n The way it works is as follows:\n\n You generate your private key S, and break it up into pieces s1, s2, s3,\ns4, and s5, such that (s1 + s2 + ... + s5) mod p = S.\n You give each piece s1, s2, etc. to a different escrow agency.\n The agencies each compute g^sn mod p, and forward the result to the public\nkey telephone book keeper.\n The public key telephone book keeper multiplies all the g^sn mod p, reduces\nthe result to mod p, and this will be the user's public key.\n\n Now, if there were several hundered recognized escrow agencies, and the user\ncould give a piece of the key to each of the ones he trusted, the result would\nbe something of an improvement over the proposed Clipper system.", "\nIf the Administration is this far along, is it possible that the\ngovernment been working on it for a while and has been using the\nDennings to prime the pump, so to speak, or as the Judas goat?\nWhether paid off, just gullible, or what, doesn't really matter.\n\nIt might also be possible that the NSA / whoever has had the idea for\nthis for quite a while, has been promoting it (Denning, et al) and\nsiezed the new opportunity - a new administration who wants to spend\nmore money on espionage than Bush did.\n\nWhatever, i'm not so sure that the cause/effect order is totally\nobvious.", "I just joined this group recently and really do not know much about\ncryptography, but a couple things came to mind while reading through\nthe posts.\n\n1. Is the Clipper chip going to be exported? If not, how will\npeople communicate with other countries? Will they have to do\nthat in un-crypt-mode. Will other encryption techniques be\nlegal (assuming the government cracks down on using others) when\ngoing overseas, but not within the states?\n\n2. I've read about authentication systems that use an electronic \nsecurity card that looks like a calculator to create an encrypted\nPIN based on the time/date. The host system has the algorithm\nbuilt into it as well so that it can authenticate a user.\nIs there some form of encryption technology that would create\nkeys that are only valid at a certain instant in time? The \nsystems would then allow a \"window\" of time around this instant\nwhere the key would work.\nI realize that this technique would increase the amount of information\nneeding to be stored because you would need entire algorithms rather\nthan just keys. But for smaller scale things it might work.\nCould some similar method be used to make the two 80-bit keys that\nare issued to police/FBI/etc to tap a phone only usable for one-week\n(for instance). If further surveilance was needed, they would have\nto go back to the escrow service to get another key. This would\nmake it useless for local police to database keys they have used.\n\nI assume this is not possible because the receiving phone would need\nto be able to decypher the message. But any thoughts on the subject?\n\nThanks,\nTauren Mills", "-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----\n\n\nI find this a very disturbing view! Yes, we DO care about EVERYONE's\nprivacy... Even if \"they\" don't know it. What happens if the gov't\nstarts creating legislation such that the Clipper and such\ntechnologies become the only \"legal\" encryption forms? What happens\nwhen the Clipper is the *ONLY* type of encryption chips available to\nthe masses?\n\nSure, you might have your own method of encryption, but if you don't\nhave anyone else to talk to, what use is it? You can't assume that\nEVERYONE will be as open as you appear to be about encryption.\n\nThe point here is not the specific instance of the Wiretap Chip.\nRather, it is like having the government telling you that they want a\ncopy of your house key, safe-deposit box keys, etc., and telling you\nthat \"they wont use them unless its totally neccessary.\" I sure\nwouldn't want that. Why should encryption be any different?\n\n- -derek\n\nPGP 2 key available upon request on the key-server:\n\tpgp-public-keys@toxicwaste.mit.edu\n\n-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----\nVersion: 2.2\n\niQBuAgUBK9RxVjh0K1zBsGrxAQHd8ALEDi3Ear7rEmr1UHuxqv2YIblH6px6VXnb\n+sJLcUGzZxTCfxbRqIf7msLp98p0EvYYnLZbbORyVhfSzyyHYHeQqQILHEK3LPQE\naP29+od6YZrCCHarNRS024E=\n=Ftek\n-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----", "\nPhilip,\nI think your ideas are well taken and constructive. Thanks for\narticulating them in this forum.\n\n\nAs a flaming libertarian paranoid extremist (:-), I'at a loss for\nspecific objections that don't sound frighteningly technical. Any\nsuggestions? Perhaps somebody could post a list of these?\n\n \nOne way to do this might be to suggest that these companies should be\nimplementing their own schemes, not being limited to the govt's\nscheme.\n\nI find that most of my reasons for opposition to the CLipper scheme\nare algoritm insecurity and mistrust of the govt/NSA. These are hard \nto sell in letters to the editor and to nontechnical people. Any\nhints or advice. Maybe a small FAQ-type thing \"Why should I Hate\nClipper\" would be a good idea.", "\nWhy should he have to? This sort of thing should be included. How about\nthe millions of people who don't have access to pd libraries over networks?\n\nJust because people can work around it, doesn't mean that something shouldn't\nbe done to remedy the situation.", "brings up the issue of how the escrow agent will be paid, and the fact\nthat the government had financial leverage if they don't cooperate.\nIt's an important issue, especially if one of the escrow agents\ndecides they'd rather stop offering the service. \nI assume that if the escrow agent isn't the government,\nthen the contract for providing escrow service would include some\ntermination clause like returning the keys.\n\n\nBut who's the user paying the fees here, and what's the service? \nIf the user is the government, then the funding's not separate from the government.\n\nIf the user is the buyer, what's the service? \nKeeping the key for me? No thanks - I don't need, and won't buy their service!\nNot telling everybody my key? Sounds like blackmail!\n\nIf the user is the manufacturer, does the user have a choice about buying?\nThe alternative is to just generate the key and not escrow it, which is fine -\nI'd certainly pay more for this kind of key than an escrowed key!\n\nFace it, the escrow provider is providing a service the users don't want.\nThe only people who want it are the government, not the users.\nWhat you're really talking about is either the government paying for\nthe service, up front or per-year, either from general taxes,\nor from a special direct tax on wiretap chips, or on an indirect tax\n(forcing the manufacturer to pay the fee to the escrow agent.)\n\nI hope the escrow people have no way of finding out your name from\nyour serial number, especially if the escrow is a government agency.\n\nHere in New Jersey, we have lots of people willing to provide that\nsort of services for user fees. There are people willing to keep your\nstore from burning down for a small monthly fee, though sometimes people\nrefuse to pay and discover that the service really was effective.\nIf you go to a baseball game at Yankee Stadium, there are people who\nwill watch your car in the parking lot for a small user fee.\nSomething could scratch the paint, after all.\nAnd what a shame if your Clipper key got out!", "\nIt means that the EFF's public stance is complicated with issues irrelevant\nto the encryption issue per se. There may well be people who care about\nthe encryption issue who don't care to associate themselves with the\nnetwork erotica issue (or may even disagree with the EFF's position).", "\nLet's assume, for the moment, that the system really is secure unless\nyou get both halves of the encryption key from the two independent\nescrow houses. Let's say you even trust the escrow houses -- one is\nthe ACLU and the other is the EFF. (And I'm not entirely joking about\nthose two names)\n\nIn that case the Prince of Wales has nothing to worry about on this\nsystem. Indeed, as pointed out, since the current systems, even the\ncurrent digital systems, are very easy to decode -- right now anybody\nwith an old TV can hear them -- for most people, this will be viewed\nas an \"oh goody\" step upwards.\n\nAnd look at how tolerant the public is. They're willing to let the\nneighbours with the radios hear right now.\n\nIt was suggested by one person that a *lot* of non-evidentiary wiretapping\nis going on right now without warrants, because anybody can do it and it's\njust an ECPA violation. This would stop that. All tapping would need\na warrant, or a breach of security at the escrow houses.", "\nAh, not in the USA. Thats a relief, thought 'reality' must be slipping for a\nsecond. :-)\n\nSt Noam was on the radio tonight, he has just published a new book \"501 years\".\nPublished by South End i guess. Could some bostonian confirm please?\n\nI would love to hear what he thinks of the Clipper scam.\n\n~Paul", "Steve Bellovin writes a well-thought-out and nearly persuasive article about\nwhy the Clipper (are we still calling it Clipper today, or have they figured\nout a non-infringing word yet?) protocol is almost as good as one can do\ngiven their marching ordes.\n\n\nI'll accept the second assumption only for the sake of argument. In my\nview the primary remaining flaw is that the encryption algorithm is\nsecret, leading to suspicion that there is a back door. Without complete\ndisclosure this suspicion cannot be dispelled, no matter how many trusted\nexperts are allowed to look at it in isolation.\n\nIs it possible to do this whole thing with a public algorithm? The only\nconcern I've seen with making Skipjack public is that someone could build\nClipperphones without registering the keys. Assume F can really be kept\nsecret as the Government assumes. Then as part of the initial connection,\na Clipperphone executes a protocol with the Pseudophone to demonstrate\nthat they both know F. For example, the initiating phone picks a number Q\nand sends E[Q; F]. The receiver sends back E[Q+1; F], and the initiator\nsends back E[Q+2; F] to demonstrate that her first packet wasn't just a\nrandom 64-bit block. Repeat in the opposite direction with another Q so\nit can't be defeated by somebody building up a library of sequential\nnumbers by remembering responses and using those responses as the initial\nnumbers of subsequent challenges. This way Clipperphones will talk only\nto other Clipperphones. Of course the Pseudo Company can build their own\nproprietary Skipjack phone, but the Presidential Fact Sheet implies that\nthey won't get approval for it without equivalent key escrow.\n\nWhat's wrong with this picture? It depends of F staying secret and on\nSkipjack being resistant to cryptanalysis, but the Government appears to\nbelieve in both of these. Even if the particular Q&A I suggest has some\nflaw, I imagine there's a zero-knowledge-proof protocol that doesn't.\n\n\nAgreed. My view, and you can quote me: if it's not worth doing, it's\nnot worth doing well.", "I was lloking at the Geo Prizm Lsi today (very nice). Anyway, I had a\nquestions that the salesperson couldn't answer. How does the theft\ndeterrent on the Prizm's audio systems work? Can't find the answer\nin any of Geo's lterature. Thanks in advance.", "As of yet, there has been no description of the general principles\nbehind the Clipper proposal. For example, is this a public key system\nor a private key system? If the latter, then I don't see how the\nsystem could work (given that the keys are tied to the device and\nnot the person).\n\nFurther, the escrowed 80-bit keys are split into two 40-bit chunks.\nI would guess that the availability of one of these 40-bit chunks\nand a reasonable key-search machine, would allow you to read the traffic.\nI'm not suggesting that this is a deliberate weakness of the system,\nbut it does make you think. Of course, this is easily fixable by \ngiving out two 80-bit chunks which could be x-ored to generate the \nreal 80-bit key.", "\n[...]\n\n[From Mike Godwin , posted with permission - Carl]\n\nSadly, it does not. Suspects can be compelled to give handwriting and\nvoice exemplars, and to take blood and DNA tests.\n\n\nNo, but they could compell you to produce the key to a safe where, as it\nhappens, evidence that will convict you is stored. \n\nThe crypto-key disclosure issue hasn't come up yet, but current law\nsuggests that it's a loser for the defendant--he'll be compelled to turn\nover the key.\n\nThe test for compelled self-incrimination is whether the material to \nbe disclosed *in itself* tends to inculpate the discloser. In the example\nI gave above, the safe key itself has no testimonial value--ergo, it can\nbe disclosed under compulsion (e.g., subpoena duces tecum).\n\nMoreover, the government can always immunize the disclosure of a crypto\nkey--compelling you to disclose the key at the price of not using the fact\nof your disclosure as evidence in the case against you. Of course, they\ncan use whatever they discover as a result of this disclosure against\nyou.\n\n\n--Mike\n\n\n\n\n", "\nI hope there are some silicon jocks on the committee who can follow\nthe algorithm through to hardware. While I doubt the NSA would pull\nany monkey business on this point -- they have to expect that the\nchip will be reverse-engineered sooner or later -- it's an obvious\nopportunity to introduce additional holes.\n", ": Indeed, if NSA really designed the algorithm to be secure, it's very likely\n: as secure as IDEA or 2-key DES. However, the system as a whole isn't resistant\n: to \"practical cryptanalysis.\" In _The Puzzle Palace_, Bamford describes how\n: several NSA employees were turned by foreign (presumably KGB) agents, despite\n: security measures that I doubt any Big 8 accounting firm could match. And\n: NSA confidential data was *not* subject to being requested by thousands of\n: police organizations and courts across the land.\n\nAh yes, don't anyone mention Ronald William Pelton[*], heh heh heh. How\nembarrassing.", "\nWithout getting into the *really* *thorny* questions about reverse\nengineering and all of that, let me just point out that there already\nexist gate arrays and suchlike that have what's known as a security fuse\nwhich can be programmed after you've verified all other programming --\nthis makes it impossible to read out the programming of the device\n(again, ignoring the reverse engineering questions). Speaking from\nexperience here: I had to completely reinvent one of my designs some\nsix or seven years ago when the disk file was zapped, the backups were\nall bad, and the devices were unreadable because of the security fuses.\nMade me appreciate the value of printouts. ;-)\n\nSo on this point at least there's not so much worry.\n\nBut whether or not we can get the chips made reliably and securely is\nreally secondary to the question of whether use of the chip is itself\nlikely to be secure, methinks.", "brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton):\n}And yes, this has to be a public key system or it would be almost\n}impossible to handle. It might not be RSA, but that does not mean\n}that PKP doesn't get paid. Until 1997, PKP has the patent on the\n}general concept of public key encryption, as well as the particular\n}implementation known as RSA.\n\nHmm, my first thought was that they're using Diffie-Hellman exponential\nsession key exchange, or an equivalent. However, the Diffie-Hellman\npatent, like the Hellman-Merkle one on public key systems, claims\nall equivalents, so the basic point stands.\n\nInterestingly, a quote from Jim Bidzos showed up in the media real\nsoon after the announcement, and he sounded very pissed. Maybe he hadn't\nyet realized that PKP might have just struck gold? All they have to\ndo is get someone to admit the general scheme that the Clipper uses.\n---\nJef", "\nPerhaps the trusted escrow agencies can be the ones who come up with\nS1 and S2, and if these agencies are really trusted (ACLU & NRA is an\ninteresting example), we can hope that they'll use some physical\nprocess to come up with truly random numbers. If the NSA comes up with\nthe numbers, that's a trap door you could drive a truck through.\n\n\nMe either.\n\n It seems from the following that the CPSR is atleats starting to\nquestion this bogosity:\n\n ----------------------------------------------------------------\nApril 16, 1993\nWashington, DC\n\n COMPUTER PROFESSIONALS CALL FOR PUBLIC\n DEBATE ON NEW GOVERNMENT ENCRYPTION INITIATIVE\n\n Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility (CPSR)\ntoday called for the public disclosure of technical data\nunderlying the government's newly-announced \"Public Encryption\nManagement\" initiative. The new cryptography scheme was\nannounced today by the White House and the National Institute\nfor Standards and Technology (NIST), which will implement the\ntechnical specifications of the plan. A NIST spokesman\nacknowledged that the National Security Agency (NSA), the super-\nsecret military intelligence agency, had actually developed the\nencryption technology around which the new initiative is built.\n\n According to NIST, the technical specifications and the\nPresidential directive establishing the plan are classified. To\nopen the initiative to public review and debate, CPSR today\nfiled a series of Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests\nwith key agencies, including NSA, NIST, the National Security\nCouncil and the FBI for information relating to the encryption\nplan. The CPSR requests are in keeping with the spirit of the\nComputer Security Act, which Congress passed in 1987 in order to\nopen the development of non-military computer security standards\nto public scrutiny and to limit NSA's role in the creation of\nsuch standards.\n\n CPSR previously has questioned the role of NSA in\ndeveloping the so-called \"digital signature standard\" (DSS), a\ncommunications authentication technology that NIST proposed for\ngovernment-wide use in 1991. After CPSR sued NIST in a FOIA\nlawsuit last year, the civilian agency disclosed for the first\ntime that NSA had, in fact, developed that security standard.\nNSA is due to file papers in federal court next week justifying\nthe classification of records concerning its creation of the\nDSS.\n\n David Sobel, CPSR Legal Counsel, called the\nadministration's apparent commitment to the privacy of\nelectronic communications, as reflected in today's official\nstatement, \"a step in the right direction.\" But he questioned\nthe propriety of NSA's role in the process and the apparent\nsecrecy that has thus far shielded the development process from\npublic scrutiny. \"At a time when we are moving towards the\ndevelopment of a new information infrastructure, it is vital\nthat standards designed to protect personal privacy be\nestablished openly and with full public participation. It is\nnot appropriate for NSA -- an agency with a long tradition of\nsecrecy and opposition to effective civilian cryptography -- to\nplay a leading role in the development process.\"\n\n CPSR is a national public-interest alliance of computer\nindustry professionals dedicated to examining the impact of\ntechnology on society. CPSR has 21 chapters in the U.S. and\nmaintains offices in Palo Alto, California, Cambridge,\nMassachusetts and Washington, DC. For additional information on\nCPSR, call (415) 322-3778 or e-mail .", "\nSince you asked, the above is a bit inaccurate. More accurate is that the\ngovernment says its solid, other people in the field who might be able to\nfind out haven't yet done their review of the chip design, and there's been\na lot of wild speculation and guesswork from those with little information\nthat it might be Swiss cheese.\n\nDavid\n\n", " \n \n Hmmmm. I think, with really large keyspaces like this, you need to\nalter the strategy discussed for DES. Attempt decryption of several\nblocks, and check the disctribution of the contents. I don't think it's\nat all feasible to keep 2**80 encryptions of a known plaintext block on\n*any* amount of tape or CD-ROM. And certainly not 2**128 such encrypted\nblocks. (Anyone know a cheap way of converting every atom in the solar\nsystem into a one bit storage device?)\n \n Actually, a keysearch of this kind shouldn't be much worse than the\nsimpler kind in terms of speed. It's just that you have to do it over\nfor *every* encrypted message.\n \n Dumb question: Has anyone ever done any serious research on how many\nlegitimate ASCII-encoded 8-byte blocks there are that could be part of\nan english sentence? For attacking DES in ECB mode, it seems like a\ndictionary of this kind might be pretty valuable....", "\nYou can find what you're looking for on hundreds of sites worldwide. Try\n\n\tanonymous ftp to nic.funet.fi (Finland)\n\n\t/pub/unix/4.3bsd/net2/lib/libc/gen/crypt.c.Z\n\nThis includes source code for fully-functional DES encryption and decryption.\n\nThere are some who believe that public domain code is exportable, some\nwho don't. Make your own judgements, but it seems obvious to me.", "[..stuff deleted]\nOh, but can Big Brother afford such things in these times of tight\nbudgets?\n\nI don't know how many folks noticed it, but Dorothy \"Trust Me\" Denning gave\na real clue to the current state of the art at NSA on decrypto machines when\nshe said the NSA told her they didn't even want to be the holder of any\npart of the key. \n\nNow why is that? I doubt there is a trapdoor in Skipjack. (But we will\nnever know). And I doubt the NSA would promote a mass market chip they\ncouldn't compromise. Ergo, NSA is now capable of compromising (probably\nwith brute force keysearch) engines of the complexity of Skipjack. Look\nat the specs. Why, I bet they have thousands of little chips chugging\naway in their crypto busters... Maybe even tens of thousands. Complexity?\nNot much more than a 3090. How many such machines will fit into Fort Meade?\n\nI think PGP2.3 should have 256 bit IDEA keys...\n", " >tell RSA or any other non-DOD entity anything that its eavesdropping\n >reveals.", "\n > OK, I should have read the thread before posting my own $0.02. I would\n > just add to Phil's very infomative discussion the following caveat: the\n > fifth amendment applies ONLY in crinial cases. (\"...nor shall any person .\n > . . be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself...\").\n\n Maybe you are using the wrong amendment. If someone were to seize\na safe containing your (paper) records, and demand that you produce\nthe combination, the applicable defense would be on grounds of\nunreasonable search and seizure. The police would be entitled to\nsubpoena documents relating to a specific matter, but any broad search\nsuch as implied by impounding all your records would be unconstitutional.\nIn the case of the safe, they would probably get a locksmith and\nassert that they ONLY examined documents covered by the warrent.\n(Sure!) In the cryptographic case, their only resort would be\nrubber-hose cryptography.\n\n (This would also make a good \"mental experiment\" to use in\nchoosing escrow agents. Would you trust this proposed agent with a\nkey to your hard disk?--or half the key for that matter.)\n\n--\n\n\t\t\t\t\tRobert I. Eachus", "\n >At the company I worked for previously, I received a file that was\n >des encryped and the person that had sent it, went on vaction.\n >Rather than wait two weeks I set up a straight frontal attack with\n >one key at a time. It only took two(2) days to crack the file.\n >No, I don't have any faith in DES.\n \n\n Taking this at face value (though it seems quite dissonant with\n much else that has been published here about brute force DES\n cracking, unless Russell was lucky with respect to the key), I'd be\n very interested in whether the program Russell used is available?\n\nkey search is very practical in many real situations since people use\nsuch stupid keys on the average. password crackers know this well.\n\n Depending on his answer, this could be an appalling development\n calling into question both DES and RSA/DES.\n\nnot really. in fact, public key based communication systems very\noften pick keys automatically which are much better than passwords or\npass phrases.\n\n If any bright programmer with a little idle machine time can crack\n a single DES message in a couple of days (assuming no tricks that\n are message-specific),", "\n\nThis is an interesting point. As a VERY COARSE rule of thumb, you can\nfigure that the final price of a product is 3 to 5 times the Cost Of Goods.\n(The exact multiplier depends largely on economies of scale: Products that\nsell tens of millions of units/year will be at the low end, those that sell\nthousands of units/year will be at the high end. I suspect cellular phones\nare in the middle). This implies that adding a $25 chip would increase the\ncost of the phone by approx $100, or about 25% - 30%.\n\nI don't think you'll get a lot of consumer support for this.\n\n\n-tony", "\nDoesn't this just mean that the government might not approve\nsomething for use by other government agencies. This does not\nsound to me to be any form of threat that Joe User can't develop\nand use his own encryption algorithm.\n", "Just curious, how would the Clipper Chip system handle\nconference calls?\n\n\n\n", "(quoting someone else here) \n\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tYeah!\n\n\tThe algorithm is classified because a military contract (or similar\ngovernment equivalent to military) has been let for this \"proprietary\"\ndesign that the Feds say that NSA developed. Is there a patent? Is that\npatent publicly available? My betting is that that too is classified.\n\n\tIf the algorithm were made public, or reverse-engineered, it would\ncompromise not only the goal of Justice of being able to read every chip\nusers cypto-data but would reduce profits for the selected chip maker.\n\n\tWouldn't that just be too bad?\n", " >government maintaining a secret of some kind.", "\nActually, it is simple.\n\nA person P has committed a crime C in country X if P was within the borders\nof X at the time when C was committed. It doesn't matter if the physical\nmanifestation of C is outside X.\n\nFor instance, if I hack into NASA's Ames Research Lab and delete all their\nfiles, I have committed a crime in the United Kingdom. If the US authorities\nwish to prosecute me under US law rather than UK law, they have no automatic\nright to do so.\n\nThis is why the net authorities in the US tried to put pressure on some sites\nin Holland. Holland had no anti-cracking legislation, and so it was viewed\nas a \"hacker haven\" by some US system administrators.\n\nSimilarly, a company called Red Hot Television is broadcasting pornographic\nmaterial which can be received in Britain. If they were broadcasting in\nBritain, they would be committing a crime. But they are not, they are\nbroadcasting from Denmark, so the British Government is powerless to do\nanything about it, in spite of the apparent law-breaking.\n\nOf course, I'm not a lawyer, so I could be wrong. More confusingly, I could\nbe right in some countries but not in others...\n", "From Denning:\n\n the Skipjack encryption algorithm\n F, an 80-bit family key that is common to all chips\n N, a 30-bit serial number\n U, an 80-bit secret key that unlocks all messages encrypted with the chip\n\n E[M; K], the encrypted message stream, and \n E[E[K; U] + N; F], a law enforcement block. \n\nWhere the session key is K, and is transmitted encrypted in the unit Key U.\nWhich along with the serial number N is encrypted in the Family key F.\n\nPresumably the protocol can be recovered (if by nothing else, differential\nanalysis).\n\nPostulate if you will, a chip (or logic) sitting between the clipper chip\nand its communications channel. The function of this spoof chip is twofold:\n \n\t1) Transmit Channel\n\n\t The spoof chip XORs the 30 bit encrypted serial number with\n\t a secondary keying variable. This renders the serial number\n\t unrecoverable with just the family key\n\n\t2) Receive Channel\n\n\t The spoof chip XORs the incoming encrypted serial number\n\t with a secondary keying variable (assuming integrity of the\n\t law enforcement block is necessary for local operation -\n\t checksums, sequence control, etc.).\n\nThis has the net result of hiding the serial number. It is probable theere is\na known plaintext pattern used as a filler in the block containing N (34 bits\nas used in generating U, U1,U2) correctness of the law enforcement block\ncan be determined with only the family key F. Whereas, no one has proposed\nFederal Agencies be denied F, and because they could recover it themselves,\nThe correctness of the serial number can be tested by examining the pad bits\nof N in E[N; F].\n\nThe one could selectively alter the law enforcement block as above, but the\nmutilation could be detected. A better approach would be to mutilate the\nentire law enforcement block. If it were done with a group encryption scheme\nsuch as DES or (presumably) Skipjack, the chances the law enforcement block\ncan be recovered are lessened.\n\nWhat do you want to bet the transmission protocol can be recognized and the\nserial numbers decrypted in a target search? When digital transmission\nbecomes widely available, would there be a requirement that clipper protocol\ntransmissions be refused when containing mutilated law enforcement blocks?\n\nOne way to avoid notice, would be to spoof protocol information of the block\ncontaining M, as well as spoofing the law enforcement block.\n\nThe goal is to use a secure communications scheme, without redress to \ndetection or key K interception (contained encrypted within the law\nenforcement block). The data stream is returned to its original state\nfor use by the clipper chip (or system) if required, for proper operation.\n\nIt is somewhat improbable that the entire protocol will be contained within\nthe clipper chip, yet likely that sequence of events will be tested for,\nrequiring a valid law enforcement block to be received before accepting\nand decrypting E(M; K);\n\nThe spoof chip could be implemented anywhere in the protocols, including\non the resulting serial data stream. Existing clipper products could\nbe subborned. After all, they are high security encryption systems right?\n\nSuper encipherment/encryption could allow the chip to be used without\nredress to detection of the use of the chip, or disclosure of the serial\nnumber. Security must be adequate to deny the serial number, which should\nnot be recoverable by other means. One can see the use of cut outs for\nprocurring clipper phones, or once the number of units is high enough,\nstealing them. It would be a mistake on the part of authority, but nice\nfrom a point of privacy, if the serial number N were not associated with\na particular clipper chip or lot of chips through the manufacturing and \ndistribution process. Hopefully the list of known missing or stolen\nclipper serial numbers N encrypted with F, and the protocols are not \nsufficient plaintext to attact the super encrypted clipper stream.\nThis could be further made difficult by altering the temporal and or\nspatial relationship of the clipper stream to that of the super encrypted\nstream.\n\nDetection of an encrypted stream could tip off the use of the aforementioned\nscheme.\n\n******************************************************************************\n\nIf you could capture valid law enforcement blocks not your own, and use\nthem in a codebook sustitution with your own, where they point to a valid\nlaw enforcement block stored in a library utilizing a session key matching\nthe remainder of the transmission, you could simply out and out lie, yet\ndeliver to monitoring and/or hostile forces a seemingly valid law enforcement\nblock. These captured law enforcement blocks would be used as authenticators,\nsuch as in a manually keyed encryption system. Fending this off would require\nescalation in examining the protocols and blocks in the transmission.\n\nThe M code stream might be independently attacked based on knowledge of\nclipper chip protocols as revealed plaintext. This could be invalidated\nby changing the temporal and or spatial relationship of the clipper M stream\nand the actual transmitted stream, under the control of a secure key\ngenerator synchronized between endpoints.\n\nThe useful life time of captured law enforcement blocks might be limited\nbased on hostile forces using them as targets following transmission\ninterception. You would need a large number of them, but, hey there's\nsupposed to be millions of these things, right? Adding time stamps to\nthe encrypted law enforcement block is probably impractical, who wants\nan encryption chip with a real time clock?\n\n*****************************************************************************", "\n\nNever said you didn't publish, merely that there is data you don't\npublish, and that no-one scoriates you for those cases. \n\nIBM research publishes plenty, it's why you ended up with 2 Nobel\nprizes in the last 10 years, but that some projects are deemed\ncompany confidential. ATT Bell Labs, keeps lots of stuff private,\nLike Karamankars algorithm. Private moeny is entitled to do what\nit pleases, within the bounds of Law, and For all the keepers of the\ntemple of SCience, should please shove their pointy little heads\nup their Conically shaped Posterior Orifices. \n\npat", ": The message from the NIST about the clipper chip comes from the\n: following address:\n: \n: \tclipper@csrc.ncsl.nist.gov (Clipper Chip Announcement)\n: \n: Just who is that, I asked myself, or rather, I asked the computer.\n: \n: % telnet csrc.ncsl.nist.gov 25\n...list of name elided for brevity......\n: \n: Well, isn't that interesting. Dorothy Denning, Mitch Kapor, Marc\n: Rotenberg, Ron Rivest, Jim Bidzos, and others. The Government, RSA,\n: TIS, CPSR, and the EFF are all represented. I don't suppose anybody\n: within any of these organizations would care to comment? Or is this\n: just the White House's idea of a cruel joke on these peoples' inboxes?\n\nI know that at least one person on that list says the first he heard\nof Clipper was in the Friday morning newspaper! And another has\nalready fired off a letter of protest to NIST.\n\nMy point? I suspect this list, interesting as it is for various\nreasons, does not represent the cabal that put this proposal together.\nSome of them, yes. Others, no. \n\nThis may be nothing more than a mailing list of people who get\ncrypto-related announcements from NSA, er, I mean \"NIST.\"\n\n-Tim May", "\nMy choice for the escow house would be the Smithsonian, and someplace on\nthe west coast. My biggest concern isn't that the escrow house could\nbe compromised (it will be), but the fact it has been compromised will\nbe kept secret. \n\nThe keys could be kept under glass, with 24-hour C-SPAN coverage. If you\nthought your key had been stolen just turn on the cable, and wait until\nthe roving camera reachs the musuem case with your key. Or if you think the\nC-SPAN satellite has been compromised, take a tour of the Smithsonian\nyourself, and view the seal on your key.\n", "\nNo, which is why I want an investigation. \n \n\nWho ever said he was? What is obvious is that he was defending himself, and his\nfollowers, from the government. Whether you think he was right or wrong in\nthis is another question. If he was right, then he had the moral right to kill\nthose kgBATF agents.\n--Ray Cote", "and\nand\n\nabout Coca-Cola and Pepsi Cola and what they can teach us.\n\n\nSurely, if we must use pop patent law examples to discuss RC2 and RC4,\nit would make more sense to consider the case of RC Cola?", "\n\nDIs it possible to track down \"zuma\" and determine who/what/where \"seradr\" is?\nIf not, why not? I assu\\me his/her/its identity is not shielded by policies\nsimilar to those in place at \"anonymous\" services.", "\n\n\nThis has to be a dictionary attack. No other attack makes sense.\n\n\nThis means that whoever encrypted the file just typed some password\nwhich was a single dictionary word, and then Russell tried all the\nwords in the dictionary. This isn't too implausible, especially if he\nwas smart and clipped the first plaintext block off the ciphertext (if\nthe first block doesn't decrypt then obviously the others won't\neither).\n\nAssuming one attempt a second, it takes seven hours to try all the\nwords in /usr/dict/words. Not real tough.\n\nIf you want DES to be secure, you have to use RANDOM KEYS. You can't\njust type your wife's name and think \"aha they'll never guess that\none!\"\n\n\n\n-- \nDaniel F. Boyd -- boyd@cs.buffalo.edu ", "\n\n\n\nIn most cases information you come by properly is yours to use as you wish,\nbut there are certainly exceptions. If you write a paper which includes\nsufficiently detailed information on how to build a nuclear weapon, it is\nclassified. As I understand the law, nuclear weapons design is\n_automatically_ classified even if you do the work yourself. I believe you\nare then not allowed to read your own paper.\n\nA less serious example: if you tell drivers about a speed trap they are\nabout to run into, you can be fined, even though you might argue that you\nbroke no law when you discovered the location of the policeman. The charge\nis interfering with a police officer, which is quite similar what you would\nbe doing by reverse engineering the Clipper chip.\n\nDon't tell me that you think this violates the Constitution -- find some\ncourt cases which have struck down such laws. Many people would not be\ncomforted by the fact that the government violated their rights when it\nimprisoned them.\n", "\n- or their handlers.\n\n\nThey key depositories are IRRELEVANT. In order for the applicable law\nenformcement agencies to be able to know what keys to request from\nescrow, the system will have to squawk its serial number in clear text\nas part of the link establishment protocol. Whoever owns the program \nthat assigns keys to each serial number won't need access to the key\ndepository.\n\nIn other words, the FBI may need a court-ordered release of escrowed\nkeys, but the NSA has the keys before the chip is ever manufactured.\nThere is no need to go through the escrow or to try all keys. While\nrelations between law enforment agencies have sometimes been strained,\nthere is also a long history of trading favors. This will re-establish\nthe NSA as a very important agency for everyone to get along with,\nbecause they can give you untraceable encryption leaks without court\norders.\n\nThe more I think about this affair, the fouler it smells. I'd rather\nhave a DES with an engineered-in backdoor ...", "I'm quite astonished, shocked, and appalled at this serious frontal \nassault on emerging American freedoms. The Clinton administration \nnor any other government agency has any legitimate role whatsoever \nin regulating cryptography. To do so is tantamount to regulating \n`acceptable' speech, and is blatantly unconstitutional. Perhaps we \nshould rename this year `1984' in honor of such an illustrious \nproposal. Let the Crappy Chip live in infamy, and the adminstration\nreceive great shame and discredit for this bizarre misadventure.\n\nI am outraged that my tax money is being used to develop technology\nto restrict my freedoms far beyond reasonable measures. The U.S.\ngovernment will have my full uncooperation and disobedience on any\nserious threat to my liberties such as this, and I call on everyone\nwith an interest in a sensible government to resist and defy this \nproposal. The administration does not seem to understand that they\nare merely a subservient instrument to implement the will of the\npublic, and hence anyone involved in this proposal in this respect is \nwholly negligent and remiss in performing their lawful duty.\n\n\nIt seems to me that U.S. Diplomatic communications should be \ntappable by the U.N. whenever any countries produce a warrant to\nthe U.N. In fact, I think we should stop paying the NSA billions\nof dollars a year to produce unbreakable codes for this reason.\nThese actions violate the sovereignity of international law. (I hope\nMr. Clinton is shrewd enough to recognize my sarcasm and satire here.\nBut if he isn't, it's a modest and reasonable proposal, so he should\nfind merit with it nevertheless.)\n\nCryptography is neutral technology. If everybody has strong \ncryptography (including policemen, bureacrats, businessmen, \nhousewives, thugs and hoodlums), we have a sustainable \nequilibrium. Anything less is an unworkable anti-egaltarian \narrangement, intrinsically antithetical to American freedoms, and\nguaranteed to collapse under its own weight of inherent \nimpracticality. We don't need to compromise on issues of freedom.\n\n\nFor too long our government has demonstrated itself to be \nincreasingly hostile and a serious obstacle to economic vitality \nand protecting Americans.\n\n\nIt is not possible for the Federal Government\nto ``act quickly'' or develop ``consistent, comprehensive\npolicies'' PERIOD. And even if by some grandiose miracle such\na thing were possible, it would only be an efficient way to\ndeprive American citizens of fundamental and inalienable rights.\n\nThe administration has to be committed to leaving private \nindustries alone, esp. on this issue. The government has no \nlegitimate role in regulating the content of communications.\nLaw enforcement agencies must be prepared to forfeit their\nsurveillance bludgeon; they are soon and inevitably to be \ndisarmed of it. \n\n\nNo such laws can be constitutionally sound, and this is equivalent\nto a veiled threat, which I don't appreciate. This kind of \nextortion tends to agitate me and others into radicalism. I will\ntrade threats for threats, and violation for violation.\n\n\nIf the administration did say this, it would find itself \nimpeached for reckless and outrageous disregard of essential,\nestablished, entrenched, and explicit constitutional privacy \nguarantees. The administration would have no legal standing \nwhatsoever; such an action would be egregiously illegal and\ncriminal, and wholly untolerated and disregarded by vast \nsegments of the population.\n\n\nThe U.S., comprised of a vast majority of people fanatically \ncommitted to preserving their privacy in the face of an \nincreasingly totalitarian government, is saying just that. \nTake your chips and give them to NSA employees as Christmas bonuses.\nWe can run any algorithm on our computers we damn well please, \nand we will make any chips we please, and we will send any bit \npattern over our data highways we please. And if you try to stop \nus, you will be gradually or abruptly dissolved into nothingness.\n\n[privacy vs. law enforcement]\n\nThis is an outright Dingaling Denning lie. The two aims of\nprivacy and surveillance are intrinsically and fundamentally \nincompatible, and you have to work for the NSA to think otherwise. \nAmericans are about to discover ways, through the use of technology, \nto preserve their inalienable but forgotten freedoms that have slowly \nbeen eroded away by an increasingly distant and unresponsive and \n*unrepresentative* government.\n\n--", "OK, I heard a lot of talk about the NSA's infamous control over encryption\nexport through the ITAR. Here's a question. Say I develop this great new\nencryption system, and I want to sell my software worldwide. The thought\npolice then come in and say \"This algorithm is a threat to national security.\nYou will not be permitted to export it.\" At this point, what kind of trouble\ncould I get into if I ignored the ITAR and sold my program to international\ncustomers anyway?\n\nDoug Holland\n", "\nYou obviously haven't read the information about the system. The chips\nput out serial number infomation into the cypher stream to allow\nthemselves to be identified. The system does not rely on registering\npeople as owning particular phone units.\n\nI am against the proposal, but lets be accurate in our objections.\n\n--\nPerry Metzger\t\tpmetzger@shearson.com", "\n\nI suspect the government feels it is enough to prevent companies from\noffering secure encryption services. Big companies don't take that\nkind of risk. They're too visible and have too much to lose.\n\nThe US government may not have to make encryption illegal to prevent its\nuse. If they could credibly say to IBM or MIT: you will receive no US\ngovernment money next year unless you follow these voluntary guidelines on\nuse of encryption, I doubt either organization would delay making use of\nencryption a violation of local policies. The US government gets much of\nits power by making it impractical to operate without getting money from the\ngovernment while putting restrictions on use of such money that would be\nillegal if they were enacted as laws.\n", "About 50 people so far have asked, \"Once the FBI gets your Clipper keys,\nwon't they be able to read all your future and past traffic?\"\n\nThere has been no response from NIST, NSA, Ms. Denning, Mr. Hellman, or\nanyone else who might be able to give us an authoritative answer.\nThis is troubling.\n\nDidn't NSA think about this? Or is it a feature, and they thought we\nwouldn't notice?\n\nI would have thought that by now they would have responded with something\nof the form, \"Well, that won't be a problem because ....\"\n\nVery curious.", "WOULD WIRETAP CHIP BE COST-EFFECTIVE?\n\n by Robin Hanson\n Draft, April 21, 1993\n\n SUMMARY: Compared to an average monthly phone bill of sixty dollars,\n wiretaps are only worth two cents a month to police. So the\n proposed wiretap chip must raise phone costs by less than one part \n in three thousand to be cost-effective. \n\nBACKGROUND\n\nUntil now, phones have happened to allow the existence of \"wiretaps\",\ndetectors which could pick up conversations on a phone line. And over\ntime, law enforcement agencies have come to rely on this capability to\naid in criminal investigations. However, powerful new encryption\ntechnologies threaten this status quo, by making possible truly\nprivate communication. A small chip in each phone could soon make it\nliterally impossible to overhear a conversation without physical\nmicrophones at either end.\n\nIn order to preserve the ability of law enforcement agencies to tap\nphone conversations, the U.S. government announced on April 16, 1993\nthat it had developed and begun manufacturing a special \"wiretap\" chip\nto be placed in future phones, instead of the total privacy chips\nwhich have been under private development. The same day, AT&T\nannounced it would use these chips \"in all its secure telephone\nproducts\".\n\nEach chip would be created under government supervision, when it would\nbe given a fixed indentifier and encryption key. Periodically during\neach conversation, the chip would broadcast its identifier and other\ninfo in a special \"law enforcement block\". Law enforcement officers\nwith a court order could then obtain the key corresponding to the\nindentifier from special trust agencies, and could thereby listen in\non any future or previously recorded conversations on that phone.\n\nTo date, most concerns voiced about this plan have been about its\nsecurity. The government won't disclose the encryption algorithm, and\nmany suspect the government will not limit its access in the way it\nhas claimed. The track record of previous governments does not\ninspire confidence on this point [1].\n\nHowever, this paper will neglect these concerns, and ask instead\nwhether this new wiretap chip is a cost-effective tool for police\ninvestigation. That is, which is a cheaper way for society to\ninvestigate crime: force phone communications to support wiretaps, or\ngive police agencies more money to investigate crimes in other ways?\nOr to put it another way, would police agencies be willing to pay for\neach wiretap, if they had to pay their share of the full social cost\nof forcing phones to support wiretaps?\n\nTo start to answer this question, we might compare the current\nbenefits wiretaps provide to law enforcement agencies with projected\ncosts of implementing the new wiretap chip plan. And since current\nbenefits are easier to estimate, we begin there.\n\nWIRETAP BENEFITS\n\n1990 is the latest year for which wiretap statistics are available\n[2]. In that year, 872 wiretap installations were requested, and no\nrequests were denied. (This figure does not include wiretaps obtained\nwith the consent of a party to the conversation.) 2057 arrests\nresulted from wiretaps started the same year, 1486 arrests came from\nwiretaps in previous years, and 55% of arrests led to convictions.\n76% of the wiretaps were for phones (vs pagers, email, etc.), 60% were\nregarding drug offenses, and 40% were requested by federal\nauthorities. Each wiretap installation heard an average of 1487\ncalls, 22% of them incriminating, among 131 people, and cost an\naverage of $45,125 (extrapolating from the 794 installations\nreporting costs), mostly for labor.\n\nThus a total of about $40 Million was spent on wiretaps, to obtain\nabout 4000 arrests, at $10,000 per arrest. Thus these arrests are at\nleast four times more expensive than the $2500 per arrest figure one\ngets by dividing the $28 Billion spent by all police nationally by the\ntotal 11 Million non-traffic arrests [3]. Thus the $30 Million per\nyear spent on phone taps is only one thousanth of the total police\nexpenditures. And if we divide this by the 138 Million phone \"access\"\nlines in the country [3], we get about 23 cents spent per year per\nphone line, or about two cents a month.\n\nIn general, we deter a given class of criminals through a combination\nof a perceived probability of being caught and convicted, and some\nexpected punishment level if convicted. So the social value of having\nwiretaps is no more than the amount that we would have to pay to get\nthe same criminal deterrence through other means. If unable to\nwiretap a particular suspect's phone, police might instead use hidden\nmicrophones, or investigate that suspect in other ways. Or police\nmight focus on suspects more easily investigated without wiretaps. Or\nwe might raise the fine or prison time for certain types of crime.\n\nIf we generously assume that these substitutes for wiretaps would be\non average twice as expensive as wiretaps, then the annual social\nbenefit of phone wiretaps is about equal to the current spending level\nof two cents a month per phone line.\n\nWIRETAP COSTS\n\nLet us for the moment optimistically assume that the US government\nencryption scheme is as secure as whatever private enterprise would\nhave offered instead, protecting our conversations from the spying\nears of neighbors, corporations, and governments, both foreign and\ndomestic. Even so, the need to support wiretaps would add many\nadditional costs to build and maintain our communication system.\n\nExtra law enforcement blocks would be added to phone transmissions,\nincreasing traffic by some unknown percentage. A special process must\nbe used to add encryption keys to chips, while securely distributing\nthese keys to special agencies, which must be funded and monitored.\nThe chips themselves are designed by a military contractor, whose\ndesign is to remain secret, and are manufactured through a special\nprocess so that the chip becomes nearly impossible to take apart.\n(Chips are now offered at the relatively high price of $30 a peice in\nlots of 10,000 [4].) Private encryption systems not supporting\nwiretaps would require none of these extra costs.\n\nPerhaps most important, government degree would at least partially\nreplace private marketplace evolution of standards for how voice is to\nbe represented, encrypted, and exchanged in our future phones. It is\nwidely believed that governments are less efficient than private\nenterprise in procuring products and standards, though they may perhaps\nperform a useful brokering role when we choose between competing private\nstandards. How much less efficient is a matter of debate, some say\nthey pay twice as much, while others might say only 10% more. \n\nCurrently, a total of $96 Billion is spent as operating expenses of\nU.S. phone companies [3], which comes out to about $60 per month per\naccess line. If we compare this to the wiretap value of two cents per\nmonth, we see that if wiretaps raise average operating costs by even\nas much as one part in 3000, then wiretaps are not cost effective!\nAnd this doesn't even include extra costs phone owners pay because\ntheir encryption chips are more expensive. Of course most phones\nwouldn't have encryption chips for a while, but the wiretap benefit\nper phone is still the same, so this argument still applies.\n\nCONCLUSION\n\nGiven this dramatic difference between the total cost of running the\nphone system and the value of wiretaps, we can justify only the\nslightest modification of the phone system to accommodate wiretaps.\nWhen the only modification required was to allow investigators in to\nattach clips to phone wires, wiretap support may have been reasonable.\nBut when we consider substantial modification, the burden of proof is\nclearly on those proposing such modification to show that the costs\nwould really be less than the benefits. \n\nIf consensus cannot be obtain on this cost/benefit estimate, a\ncompromise might be to tax phones which do not support wiretaps at a\nrate of say five cents per month, a tax payable to police agencies\nnationwide to compensate them for their loss of wiretap abilities.\n\n[1] The Invisible Weapon, Oxford Press, ISBN 0-19-506273-6\n\n[2] Report on Applications for Orders Authorizing or Approving the\n Interception of Wire, Oral, or Electronic Communications, 1990,\n Administrative Office of U.S. Courts, Washington, DC 20544.\n\n[3] U.S. Statistical Abstracts, 1992. \n\n[4] Dorothy Denning, \"The Clipper Chip: A Technical Summary\",\n distributed to sci.crypt newsgroup April 21, 1993. ", ": At the company I worked for previously, I received a file that was des encryped\n: and the person that had sent it, went on vaction. Rather than wait two weeks\n: I set up a straight frontal attack with one key at a time. It only took two(2)\n: days to crack the file. No, I don't have any faith in DES.\n\n: A.G.\n\nFun! Three questions:\n\n1) What hardware did you use?\n2) When you found the key, was there anything about it that was special\n that meant you had been lucky to find it early? (Like the first 30 bits\n all being 0)\n3) ... or did you mean a dictionary attack rather than a binary key attack?", "\nI believe it's legal to send DES code or equipment from the US to Canada\nwith no export license. I think this is the only place you can do this - all\nother countries require a license.\n\nAs an aside, I've always thought it should be legal to send DES software\nanywhere, if you follow these rules:\n\n 1. Encrypt your DES software with DES.\n 2. Send the encrypted software to the recipient.\n 3. Send the key to the recipient.\n\nThe only way the person on the other end can use your DES software is if\nhe/she already *has* DES available - otherwise, they can't decrypt your\nprogram, and it is useless. If you've guaranteed they already have DES,\nhave you really violated any law by sending it to them in the form of\nyour program?? I'm sure it's still illegal, but it seems like a good idea...", "\nI've been a very intent NREN spectator of the NREN for years. As a \ncommercial IP software vendor, it really is my professional opinion that the \nNREN, at this point, is irrelevant to private sector networking. If it had \nbeen deployed five years ago, it would have been a major development. Now,\nhowever, it's just an upgrade to the NSFnet, and an attempt to revive the \nlagging use of the national supercomputer centers. You could cut out the \nNSFnet completely, and the Internet would continue chugging along without a \nhiccup (aside from a few universities).\n\nLong-haul networking and Internet connectivity have long since ceased to be \nunder federal sponsorship or regulation, at least in the USA. The success of \nthe CIX (Commercial Internet Exchange) is a prime example of this. While our \ndear VP has been promoting his \"data superhighway,\" the private sector has \nbeen building it, without the NSFnet's restrictions.\n\nTo illustrate, a connection from the machine on my desk to the machine your \narticle was posted from (pizzabox.demon.co.uk) involves *only* commercial IP \nproviders until it hits Amsterdam. No NSFnet. No NREN. No \"appropriate \nuse\" restrictions. It's even 1.544mbps (T1) until it hits the EUnet \ngateway...\n\nQED.\n", "\n\tI think I should also point out that the mystical DES engines\nare known plaintext engines (unless you add a ton of really smart\nhardware?)\n\n\tThe 'plaintext' is digitized voice, and exists for a very short\ntime, probably in a couple inches of copper, tops. It's flatly not\navailable -- your bug in my office can hear my voice, and even digitize\nit, but it's going to get a different bitstream.\n\n\tIt is horribly naive to suppose that regular folks can figure\nout how to crack skipjack, or clipper based telephones. I'm certainly\nnot devoting a great deal of thought to it.", "Maybe I don't know enough to know what I am asking, but with millions\nof these things about, how could the algorythm possibly stay secret?\nCouldn't some clever hackers just grind the thing down layer by layer,\nand see how it worked?\n\n-- ", "\n\nFollowing precedent in other areas, the government is likely to put a tax on\nencryption technology. Once the tax is imposed, it becomes a federal matter\nand suspicision of an unlicensed cryptographic tool will bring the BATF or\nFBI tossing grenades into your house. (The BATF appears to be the logical\nagency to enforce such regulations: federal control over alocohol, tobacco,\nand firearms is similary based on taxes.)\n\nLook at the FCC: they won't allow sale of any receiever that can receive\nbands that are supposed to be private. This has nothing to do with any\ndesire to prevent harmful interference. If the government can make a radio\nreceiver illegal what makes you think they won't claim the right to control\nencryption?\n", "Right on the heels of the Clinton \"registered encryption key\" debacle comes:\n\n\n\n\n\nWonder how much of that extra money goes into coming up with\nencryption schemes they can easily crack?", "\nThank you very much. After reading the text some distinct questions\narised to me, which I guess will also be asked by other people. Perhaps\nwould it be interesting to find an answer to these questions ?\n\n\n\nshorter or longer ?\n\n\n\n\nFirst question: When will the LawEnforcmentField be transmitted, and how\ndoes the remote Clipper Chip handle it? Is it transmitted periodically\nin the stream of encrypted blocks, or just at the beginning ? Does the\nphone at the other side discard those packets via a protocol whatsoever,\nor tries it to turn them into voice-output ? (Which would not be disturbing)\n\n\n\nSecond question: Why!?!? Why is such a strange procedure used, and not\na real RNG ? This turns those S1,S2 in a kind of bottleneck for system-\nsecurity.\n\n\n\nSo no (technical) provision will be taken to place a 'timeout' on these\nwarrants? This would be a unique possibility to realize such a technical\nrestriction, by letting the escrow-agencies perform the decoding of the\nsession key. Just take modem-lines instead of secure fax. Is this such\na bad idea ?\n\n\n\nWow! (How does the randomizer work?) Are the SHA (and Key exchange) secret,\nor publicly known ? Key-Exchange is DH, I guess ?\n\nIt seems that those who are opposed to this chip shall have a tough time,\nyour government realy means to act. :-(\n\nFriendly greetings,\n\t Germano Caronni\n", "\nAs long as \"you are on your own\" means that you can use your own encryption,\nI'm sold.", "\n\nIt depends on the algorithm used. 128-bit secret keys for RSA are\ndefinitively not secure enough.\n\nRegards,\nVesselin", "\n: P.S. I can't work out why the US government doesn't want to sell\n: them overseas. After all, they are rather easy for US interests to decode,\n: so make a perfect tool for industrial/military espionage...lulling \n: anyone stupid enough to buy it into a false sense of security. You will\n: notice that there is NO mention anywhere about safety for non-Americans.\n\nDon't forget, you are in the country that wouldn't let the Russians\nbuy Apple II's because of security concerns.", "\nA circut court judge in Illinois once said \"When dealing with a government\nthat seeks continually new and more creative ways to spy on its' citizenry,\none cannot discourage the move to empower the common citizen with the means\nto parry this attack on personal privacy.\"\n\n(Unfortunately the comment was with regard to the banning of radar\ndetectors....)\n\nThe point remains. More and more I see the government slowly washing\naway privacy. Even unwittingly. Do you think I will ever live in a\nsoceity that issues smart cards to citizens at birth? Do you think I\nwill live in a soceity that insists I register my crypto keys so they\ncan keep track of what I'm saying? Even if there is no evidence of my\nguilt? Do you think I will ever live in a soceity that seeks to meddle\nin the affairs of its' citizenry without recourse of any kind? I'm tired\nof it. There is (IMHO) no compromise with an administration that seeks\nto implement these proposals under the guise of enhancing privacy.\n\nMore than the proposals themselves, I read the language of the press\nreleases, the obvious deception involved in presenting these pieces to\nthe public, and I am sickened. I am revolted. I am repulsed.\n\n90%, perhaps even 95% of this country could care less about the\nclipper chip, the wiretap bill, the smart card, because they are so\nentrapped in the rhetoric of the Clinton Administration.\n\nThis saddens and frightens me.\n\nI am a conserveative believe it or not. A law and order conserveative.\nBut the move to a centralized authoratarian regime really scares me,\nmostly because I know you cant go far wrong underestimating the\nintelligence of the American people. Tell them it's going to keep\nthem safe from drug dealers and terrorists, and they will let you\nput cameras in their home.\n\nEven in the wake of Waco, you find those who support the increasingly\ntotalatarian moves.\n\n\nTo be quite honest, the way things are going, I'd call it self defense.\n\n\n\nAnd I dont want mine growning up in the eyes of a security camera\n24 hours a day.\n\nuni\n", "\n\nYes, \"Clipper\" is a trademark of Intergraph. Its the RISC chip used\nin some of thier workstations. \n\nI wonder what Intergraph is going to do to this infringement on thier\nname sake?\n", "I have seen various references to 'triple des' recently. Could anyone\ntell me what it is ? From context, I would guess that it means\nencrypting each block 3 times, with a different key each time, but\nI'd like to be sure.\n\nReplies by email preferred - our news is unreliable.\n\nThanks,\n\tRichard\n\n-- \n\n--------------\nPGP Public Key available on request\n--------------\n-- \n\n--------------\nPGP Public Key available on request", "\n > I believe it is illegal to send any cryptographic code out of the\n > country without an export license. (Others will correct me if\n > this is inaccurate.)\n\n Glad to! You are correct, it is illegal to send cryptographic\ncode (and lots of other things) out of the country without a license.\nHOWEVER, every US citizen has a general export license, allowing\nexport of lots of things, including constitutionally protected speech.\nThis has the effect that it is legal for US citizens to export some\nthings which it is illegal for a US corporation to export without\nfirst obtaining a license.\n\n > Dunno if you'd get one for the particular code you have; the only\n > way to find out is to apply for a license.\n\n Nope, talk to a good lawyer in the area of export law. But, in\ngeneral, the government has to have a very good national security case\nto try prevent the export of anything you personally might wish to\npublish. (Yes, I worded that the way I did intentionally. It is a\nlot easier for the government to TRY to prevent the export of\ninformation than to charge someone with a crime after the fact.\nEspionage is probably the only exception.)\n\n > Note that you need to distinguish between what is legal to send\n > to Canada if YOU have such a license, and what is legal to send\n > if you don't.\n\n If you are a US citizen, you have a general license. (I am not a\nlawyer, so take some of this with a grain of salt. However, I have\nalso had to swim through both ITAR and export regs in a few cases.)\n\n--\n\n\t\t\t\t\tRobert I. Eachus", "\n I know that at least one person on that list says the first he heard\n of Clipper was in the Friday morning newspaper! And another has\n already fired off a letter of protest to NIST.\n\n My point? I suspect this list, interesting as it is for various\n reasons, does not represent the cabal that put this proposal together.\n Some of them, yes. Others, no. \n\nI received mail from Mitch Kapor saying that he did not ask to be on\nthe list, and does not know why he was added. I'm sure the same\napplies to others on the list. So, I guess my initial theory was\nright, that the clipper list was just someone's idea of a bad joke. I\nguess I should be happy it wasn't a conspiracy.\n\n\t\tMarc", "psionic@wam.umd.edu, whose parenthesized name is either an unfortunate\ncoincidence or casts serious doubt on his bona fides, posts a message in\nwhich he seems willing to take the word of a private firm about which he\nknows little that their new encryption algorithm is secure and contains no\ntrapdoors, while seemingly distrusting that of the government about clipper.\n\nI suppose it depends on how paranoid one wishes to be, but how does the\nwriter know the firm isn't, for example, an NSA front? For purposes of this\nmessage, how do we know \"psionic\" isn't?\n\nI don't suggest that, but post this to point out that there is a class of\nspeculation that has no more truth value, without lots of hard evidence,\nthan the contrary one.\n\nBy the way, if \"psionic\" had said, in lower case letters, that the firm\nCLAIMS there was no back door, I'd have no problem with that phrasing.\n\nDavid", "\n\nTaking this at face value (though it seems quite dissonant with much else\nthat has been published here about brute force DES cracking, unless Russell\nwas lucky with respect to the key), I'd be very interested in whether the\nprogram Russell used is available? In whether he used a cleartext\nrecognition algorithm in the program or whether he had to examine each\ndecryption by hand? In whether he used a known plaintext attack?\n\nHe probably should also tell us, given his address, what machine he used--a\ndesktop, workstation, or super-computer.\n\nDepending on his answer, this could be an appalling development calling into\nquestion both DES and RSA/DES. Dunno about RSA/IDEA.\n\nIf any bright programmer with a little idle machine time can crack a single\nDES message in a couple of days (assuming no tricks that are\nmessage-specific), then here's my Clipper key, NSA; give me the chip at\nonce. :-)\n\nDavid", "\n\n\n\nNo wonder American businesses are going down the tubes! :-|\n\n\n(It's NIST, not NSA. NSA is not supposed to have anything to do with this.)\nThey didn't say that. They said is was better than some commercial-grade\nencryptions. I, for one, wouldn't trust them if they did, unless they\nrelease the algorithm for investigation.\n\n\nMaybe the ACLU and EFF. (It would have to be a non-profit, so the big 8\nwould be out.)\n\n\nI wouldn't trust the NSA. I think I would trust the President on this, but\nI'm not certain he would be told.\n\n\nThat's your problem.\n\n\nI want to emphasize the I am not speaking for Beckman Instruments at this\npoint. However, we are an international company, and I would like to think\nthat our customers come first, ahead of our government's whims.", "\nI understand, believe it or not, and there are any number of kinds of \nconversation and communication I engage in that I wouldn't even consider \nusing this scheme for. On the other hand, I don't see \"Clipper\" as providing \na secure channel--it just prevents casual eavesdropping. This is part of why \nI am not worried about it per se. Trying to look at Clipper as a serious \nsecurity tool is simply ludicrous. It's a voice scrambler, nothing more.\n\nThere is still plenty of market for real crypto.\n\n\nThey cost an arm and a leg, though. \"Clipper\" is obviously aimed at the mass \nmarket. It certainly won't put Cylink out of business.\n\n\nThis is old news. I can do this now.\n\n\nThere ARE restrictions. Example: We're a networking software vendor with a \nlarge overseas share of our market. We cannot currently ship PEM, or even \nsimple DES, in our products without case-by-case approval from the Department \nof State. ITAR presents a material trade barrier to US firms trying to \ncompete in international information systems markets.\n\nSure, you can use whatever freebie software you want to talk over BBS's in \nthe USA. I, on the other hand, want strong crypto (PKCS, for example) to be \nthe *default* for electronic mail, worldwide. I want priests to be able to \nhear confession over email. I want lawyers to be able to talk to clients in \nconfidence over email, or doctors talk with patients. I want to be able to \norder products from my favorite Japanese mail-order catalog over the net. I \nwant to be able to sign contracts, transact business, and so on \nelectronically.\n\nThis is so far infeasible as a result of the current restrictions on \ncrytographic systems, especially beyond the borders of the USA.\n\nClipper is irrelevant, and if it distracts the authorities into feeling safe, \nall the better. Its only danger is if it emboldens them into trying to put \nmore restrictions into place, on the theory that it is \"good enough for \nanyone who has nothing to hide.\" That argument is, of course, utter BS, just \nas much as \"no one needs an assault rifle\".\n", "Since the wiretap chip is being distributed internationally,\nallowing the U.S. government to spy on foreign governments,\ncompanies and people as as well as to wiretap domestic citizens,\nthis is a world-wide issue. Please put DISTRIBUTION: WORLD on the \nDistrubution: line. Thank you.\n\n\n\nYou don't care that people are being lied to, fooled into believing\nthe chip gives \"privacy\" when it fact it allows wiretaps? You\ndon't give a shit about anybody's privacy except your own? (And\nnot even your own; are you so smart that you know when you're talking to\nsomebody who has a wiretap chip on their phone instead of a privacy\nchip with private keys?)\n\n\n\"Simply?\" \"Everyone\" should have this attitude? The only people\nwho can have this attitude are the most hard-core\ncomputer hackers, who never make phone calls away from their\ncomputer, who apparently never call anybody except another computer \nhacker, or perhaps another spook (U.S. classified agents refuse to use\ntheir own system, only oblivious civilian dupes get that dubious privilege).\nOnly spooks and hard-core hackers need privacy, huh?\n\nWe *do* need an alternative to NSA-bugged telephones, but\nwe're talking inexpensive *telephones* here, including hand-sized\ncellulars, that need strong crypto, real privacy. Make-shift\ncomputer hacker rigs that require living by your computer to\ntalk privately over the phone are just a dumb stunt that doesn't \ndo anything for anybody's privacy in the real world. \n\nWhat we need is a true *privacy chip*. For example, a real-time \nvoice-encryption RSA, put it into a silicon compiler and spit out ASIC. \nPut this chip on the market as a de facto standard for international \nbusiness, diplomats, and private communications. If the U.S. bans \nit, we make it somewhere else and import it. The Japanese, German,\nDutch, Taiwanese, Korean, etc. electronics companies don't want the \nNSA spying on them. U.S. workers lose more jobs to government fascist\nstupidity.", "I think I should also point out that the mystical DES engines\n\tare known plaintext engines (unless you add a ton of really smart\n\thardware?)\n\nAssume the ton of smart hardware. It doesn't really have to be that smart.", "Yet again,\n\nthe escape sequences you are speaking about here are non standard and\ndangerous. In fact, an ANSI compliant sequence parser HANGS on them.\n\nWhy are there such strange ESC sequences instead of compatible DSC ?\n", "...\n\nWell, lets for a hypothetical put our selves in the place of the US end\nof the drug rings. What do we do about the Cripple chip? First off, we\nwould express disaproval to our congress critters, and remind them of the\nlarge sums of money our legitimate co.s provide to their campain coffers. We\nwould also let them know via the 'other' channels that a) their income is about\nto take a hit, and b) their health may not be too good either.\n\nBut just in case, the next obvious step to take is to BUY Mycotoxic and VLSI!\nYeah, free enterprise at work. :-) Now they have the Cripple in their pockets,\nliteraly as well as figurativly. Tough about the masses though.", null ], "marker": { "opacity": 0.5, "size": 5 }, "mode": "markers+text", "name": "6_the_to_of", "text": [ "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", 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"dtype": "f4" } }, { "hoverinfo": "text", "hovertext": [ "\nI heard about the arms sale to Saudi Arabia. Now, how is it such a grave\nmistake to sell Saudi Arabia weapons? Or are you claiming that we shouldn't\nsell any weapons to other countries? Straightforward answer please.\n\n\nWho benefits from arms sales? Hint, it isn't normally the gov't. It is\nthe contractor that builds that piece of equipment. Believe it or not,\nthe US and UK don't export the huge quantities of arms that you have\njust accused them of doing. Arms exports are rare enough, that it\nrequires an act of congress for non-small arms to most countries, if\nnot all. Do you believe in telling everyone who can do what, and who\ncan sell their goods to whom? \n\n\n", "\n\n\nLook up the facts first, post second. Bernadotte was assassinated\nin September 1948 by Lehi under the orders of its three commanders\n(one of whom was Yitzhak Shamir). There is no hard evidence of\ncomplicity of the Israeli government despite some effort by the UN\nand other organizations (US intelligence, Swedish government) to\nfind it. However a great fuss was made over the apparent lack of\nzeal of the Israeli government to track down the killers. The Lehi\nman who actually pulled the trigger later became a personal friend\nof David Ben-Gurion. The best published account in English is A. Ilan, \nBernadotte in Palestine, 1948 (Macmillan, 1989).\n", "From _Myths and Facts_, by Leonard J. Davis, Near East Research Inc.,\n1989:\n\n[pp. 108-109]\n\n \"Unlike the PLO's almost exclusive focus on civilian targets, the\n100 troups from the Irgun and Stern group that struck at Deir Yassin\non April 10, 1948, targeted the village for its military importance.\nDeir Yassin was on the road to Jerusalem, which the Arabs had\nblockaded, and it housed Iraqi troups and Palestinian irregulars.\nSnipers based in Deir Yassin were a constant threat to Jewish citizens\nin Jerusalem.\n\n \"Arab civilians were killed at Deir Yassin, but that attack does\nnot conform to the propaganda picture that the Arabs have tried to\npaint. The number of Arabs killed was generally reported to be about\n250. In 1983, however, Eric Silver of _The Guardian_ (Britain)\ninterviewed a survivor, Mophammed Sammour, who testified that 116 out\nof a population of 800-1000 were killed. 'About three days after the\nmassacre,' Sammour explained, 'representatives of each of the five\nclans in Deir Yassin met at the Moslem offices in Jerusalem and made a\nlist of the people who had not been found (alive). We went through the\nnames. Nothing has happend since 1948 to make me think this figure\nwas wrong.'", "\n\n\n\tI disagree. By converting to another religion, you certainly\ndo change your cultural identity, and lose that part of you which was\nJewish.\n\n\n\n\n\tNo, there is a serious cultural and religios difference\nbetween renouncing the jewish god and accepting a new one. \"Thou\nshall have no other gods before me.\" Conversion is a violation of\nthis, atheism you might be able to wiggle around with.\n\nAdam\n\n\n\nAdam Shostack \t\t\t\t adam@das.harvard.edu", "I have read numerous posts over a period of several months, by\nthis anti-Israel fanatic, hiding in the shadow of the respectable\nsounding name of the 'Center for Policy Research.' Obviously, it\nis no research center of any kind, unless 'researching' published\ndocuments to find material to use against Israel makes it so. \n\n Labeling a propaganda mill a research center is not surprising\nin itself. That is simply part of the propaganda process. I was\ncurious if anyone knew who this anti-Israel fanatic hiding behind\nhis phoney 'research center' name is. Is he an Arab? Is he some\ntypical anti-semite hiding behind a veneer of 'anti-zionism?' Is\nhe some Jew who perhaps lived in Israel and just couldn't make it\nthere, and is now taking his failure out on Israel? ", "....\n\nThanks for posting the references. I do not normally read t.p.m.,\nand I posted my request for references because Jim's article\nwas cross-posted to soc.culture.jewish. Allegations of Jewish\ndisrespect for the objects and buildings of other religions are\none of antisemitic stereotypes that permeate western culture, and\nrumors of church and Host desacration probably caused more pogroms\nthan blood libel. The stereotypes that pervade our culture create\ncognitive illusions that reify those stereotypes. Therefore any\nclaim that appears to reify a stereotype should be treated by\ndecent people with utmost suspicion until and unless documented.\nIf such a claim is cross-posted to a news group in which it has\nnot been documented before, such as s.c.j, a reference should be\ngiven the first time it appears. Now that the claim has been\ndocumented, I regard the whole episode as disgusting and\nshameful. Especially so because the official who failed to\nprovide proper temporary facilities for the evicted Jordanians\nwas probably Jewish, and as a Jew I know that he should have\nknown better.", "Message-ID: <1993Apr26.202714.4519@Virginia.EDU>\nDate: Mon, 26 Apr 1993 20:27:14 GMT\n\n\nFirst, the following two quite normal phrases: \n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^\n ^^^^^^^^^^^ \n\nand then he shows us what HE means by \"intelligent and unoffending manner\" \nand \"INTELLIGENT conversation\": \n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^\n [...deleted lines...]\n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n [...deleted lines...] \n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ \n [...deleted lines...]\n \n\n Later he reveals the truth:\n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ \n [...deleted lines...] \n\n Shurely he IS an anti-Semite (call it anti-Jew), maybe BECAUSE he\n is \"part Jewish\" (e.g. his mother might have *dated* a Jew who\n didn't marry her, and so she got a little bastard whom she taught\n hatred). \n \n He is also a coward since he doesn't dare to sign with his name. \n At the end he signs with a highly intelligent and intellectual \n phrase: \n \n\n\n\nMessage-ID: <1993Apr26.203425.4824@Virginia.EDU>\nDate: Mon, 26 Apr 1993 20:34:25 GMT\n\n\n The Nazis might also have sent this bastard to the gas chambers\n because of his \"part Jewish\"ness (only that he is not aware of it). \n\nPS: I wonder what kind of educational institution is @virginia.edu.\n Could it be the \"Free KKK-University of Virginia\" ? ;-)\n \n -----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n Manfredo Tichauer M. EMAIL : tichauer@valpso.hanse.de\n Opitzstrasse 14 VOICE : (++ 49 40) 27.42.27\n 2000 Hamburg 60 - GERMANY FAX : (++ 49 40) 270.53.09", "\nI hope, I hope, that we can begin to involve ourselves in the issues\nand concerns related to this peace process. We have differing opinions,\ncertainly, on these aspects but it is clear that we all share the hope\nthat \"resolution\" of the tensions and conflict **will** happen.\n\nAs we \"run to the defense\" of our side, there is no need to constantly \ninvolve ourselves in name-calling. All of us are regularly confused by\nthe \"other's\" reactive posting because \"they\" spend most of the post\napplying \"labels\" and presenting slogans than in just presenting their\nhonest views. Then...when we \"react\", we do the same thing.\n-------------=--------------------+-----------------------=-----------\n\nDo you, as I do, agree that this (sort) of \"peace process\" is needed?\nWhat about the particular points mentioned in the article? Is what\nIsrael is (supposedly) going to propose \"good\"? Does it go too far?\nNot far enough?\n\nIf you don't agree that a \"peace process\" is needed, what is?\n\n\n\n \n", " Chapter 7 operation in Somlia. Almost Chapter 7 in Cambodia and Yugo.\n 'Bout time the UN started using force to make the peace happen.\n Hopefully, they will soon be doing the same with world economics.\n\n", "\n\nIf a landlord sells an apartment building \"vacant\" to another landlord\nand fails to notify his tenants, they just might find themselves out\non the street all of a sudden. The seller may be a scoundrel and a\ncrook but this doesn't make the buyer a \"thief\", as Israelis are so\noften called here on tpm.\n\n\nThe Arabs that lived along the coast in Western Palestine, later to be\ncalled Israel, were shafted by their brother Arabs just as they've\nbeen shafted for decades since then by their Arab bretheren. Somehow,\nthough, the Arab call has continued to blame Israel, not only for the\nSyrian landowner sell-out in Western Palestine (Israel) but even for\nthe occupation of Eastern Palestine (Jordan) by the Hashemites. This\nis just more of refusing to take blame for one's own actions.\n\n\nIf your job was eliminated in a corporate takeover, you could probably\ngo to court, too. You'd probably lose, though.\n", "\n\nAnother CPR Non-Fact.\n\n\nActually, they are free to leave and seek work in Egypt, except that\nthe Egyptians don't want them, either. And who are you going to blame\nif/when Gazans establish their own state of Gaza/Palestine?\n\n\nActually, one such Jew who did risk his life to help Gazan Arabs was\nhacked to death by Palestinean murderers just last week. It seems\nthat the risk has been primarily from the Arabs \"in need of help\". \n\nThis is also true for telephone repairmen, traders who seek to buy\nagricultural products from Gazans, Israeli soldiers who get involved\nin fighting between feuding Palestinean groups that are as determined\nto destroy each other as they are to destroy outsiders...\n\n\nI just wanna see you try this here in the USA. You know what's going\nto happen. \n\n\nOkay. That's enough. I'm not going to read this posting of yours any\nfurther. \n\n\n", "\n\n Oh....I see...I didn't realize this...\n\n I think that perhaps you should print flyers on this topic, and your\n reasons for thinking the way you do. You should then distribute them\n amongst the world's population. You see, I don't think there are many\n people who are aware of this fact. Thank you for telling us the truth.\n\n BTW: I would start by sending your flyers to each of the UN officials.\n\t Also, after you have distributed your flyers you might consider\n hiding. You see, I think that once more people read what you think\n they will have to lock you up in a mental institute; and don't think\n they will ever let you out.\n \n It is a strange strange world you live in. I feel sorry for you.\n\n--", "Has anyone noticed or commented on the fact that so many of those who\nwere willing, nay demanding, that we wait forever for Mr Hussein and\nIraq, that we use tremendously costly \"sanctions\", to avoid a loss\nof life, are now at the fore front of those clammoring that we should\nhave smashed those \"religious radicals\" and we were wasting money allowing\nthis stand off to go on ? How the worm turns when the sect changes.\n", "Would it be asking too much for you to DOCUMENT these allegations of\n\"Israel used to arrest and kill neutral reporters\"? I think you confuse\nIsrael with other nations of that geographical region to which the notion\nof a free, unmonitored by the government, press corps would be a joke.", "\nSorry, I misread your remark about young men and women. (Though I am now\nunsure what that sentence does mean.)\n\n\nYou implied that anyone who wants to send troops to Bosnia wants to do so to\nhelp the \"butchers of their choice\". Since the primary targets of help are\nMuslim victims of \"ethnic cleansing\", you imply that such Muslim victims are\nbutchers.\n\n\nThis implies both sides are equal. True, it may sometimes be difficult or\nimpossible to determine which side is the victim, but that does not mean that\nvictims do not exist. Would you, in WWII have said that there were atrocities\non the sides of both the Jews and the Germans?\n\n\nYes, but both sides want different things. The Muslims chiefly want to not\nbe \"ethnic cleansed\". The Serbians want to \"ethnic cleanse\" the Muslims. It\nis indeed true that each side will stop when it gets what it wants, but the\nthings that the two sides want are not equivalent.\n\n\nI recall, before we did anything for Somalia, (apparent) left-wingers saying\nthat the reason everyone was more willing to send troops to Bosnia than to\nSomalia was because the Somalis are third-worlders who Americans consider\nunworthy of help. They suddenly shut up when the US decided to send troops to\nthe opposite place than that predicted by the theory.\n\nFor that matter, this theory of yours suggests that Americans should want to\nhelp the Serbs. After all, they're Christian, and the Muslims are not. If\nthe desire to intervene in Bosnia is based on racism against people that are\nless like us, why does everyone _want_ to help the side that _is_ less like us?\nEspecially if both of the sides are equal as you seem to think?\n--\n\"On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Leftover Turkey!\nOn the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Turkey Casserole\n that she made from Leftover Turkey.\n[days 3-4 deleted] ... Flaming Turkey Wings! ...\n -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait)", "\nYes it is, as has been evidenced by the previous two stages\nof withdrawal from the area and by the reductions in troops.\nCurrently the troops are kept at a level consistent with light\nand armored patrols. No permanent installations have been\nbuilt in the area, nor are any planned.\n\nAs to the prodigal \"water question\", you can continue to waste\nyour time looking for non-existent proof, or you can accept the\ntestimony of people here, some Lebanese, who have acknowledged\nthat they know of no evidence for these allegations.\n\n\nIt depends which of those territories you refer to.\nIn general, settlers were moved into the territories because\nat the time, in the context of the situations, it seemed the\nlogical move. This is not to say that views don't change\nor that mistakes are not made. Currently, I would say that\nthe only \"disputed territory\" that does not appear to be temporary\nis that of Eastern and northern Jerusalem.\n\n", "Atan):\n\n\nWell, Napoleon. It is your kind of people who are preventing peace \non the world. First of all, you didn't answer the question I asked\nat the end of my posting. And then you told me some bullshit\nthroughout your posting which had no positive point about the issue,\nfilled with hatred, and filled with emotions. Why am I doing this?\nForget it, I don't think you are worth it to discuss the issue.\n \n\n--\nTankut Atan\ntankut@iastate.edu", "\nThe Jerusalem Post is only a small part of the Israeli media ( One\nthat caters to outsiders for the most part, anyways).\n\nIf you never read Ha'aretz, Maariv, or other Hebrew langauge papers\n, or at least seen some of their articles translated, you are not\nreally getting the Israeli media.\n\n\n\n\n\n\nInlcuding some of the left-leaning ones?\n\n\n\nA -6 to a -10? Is that why stations such as PBS have run shows which\ndo not depict the Israeli standpoint at all?\n\nIS that why the Intifada got more coverage in 1987 and 1988 than did\nSaddamn gassing Kurds by the thousands?\n\n\n\n\n\nI am from Montreal. I read the Suburban. Did they ever advocate the\nKahane stupidity of expelling the Arabs? Are they racist?\n\nThe Suburban has some columnists that explain the Israeli standpoint.\n\nThey are nothing like Kahane. IN any case, the Suburban is a paper\nwith a minor local distribution and no influence.\n\n\n\n\nSo what source is the closest thing to a zero?\n", "\nDo you consider Neo-Nazis and white supremists to be Christian? I'd hardly\nclassify them as Christian. Do they follow the teachings of Christ? Love\none another. Love your neighbour as yourself. Love your enemies. Is Jesus\nChrist their Lord and Saviour? By the persecution of Jews, they are violating\nall the precepts of what Christ died for. They are in direct violation of\nthe teachings of Christ. Even Jesus who was crucified by the Jewish leaders\nof that time, loved His enemies by asking the Father for forgiveness of their\nsins. I am a Christian and I bear no animosity towards Jews or any one else.\nThe enemy is Satan, not our fellow man.\n\nGod be with you,", "# \n# > In Re:Syria's Expansion, the author writes that the UN thought\n# > Zionism was Racism and that they were wrong. They were correct\n# > the first time, Zionism is Racism and thankfully, the McGill Daily\n# > (the student newspaper at McGill) was proud enough to print an article\n# > saying so. If you want a copy, send me mail.\n# > \n# Was the article about zionism? or about something else. The majority\n# of people I heard emitting this ignorant statement, do not really\n# know what zionism is. They have just associated it with what they think\n# they know about the political situation in the middle east. \n# \n# So Steve: Lets here, what IS zionism?\n\n Assuming that you mean 'hear', you weren't 'listening': he just\n told you, \"Zionism is Racism.\" This is a tautological statement.", "\n\n\n\n\tA neutral organization would report on the situation in\nIsrael, where the elderly and children are the victims of stabbings by\nHamas \"activists.\" A neutral organization might also report that\nIsraeli arabs have full civil rights.\n\n\n\tCare to name names, or is this yet another unsubstantiated\nslander? \n\n\n\tTerrorism, as you would know if you had a spine that allowed\nyou to stand up, is random attacks on civilians. Terorism includes\nsuch things as shooting a cripple and thowing him off the side of a\nboat because he happens to be Jewish. Not allowing people to go where\nthey are likely to be stabbed and killed, like a certain lawyer killed\nlast week, is not terorism.\n\nAdam\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nAdam Shostack \t\t\t\t adam@das.harvard.edu", "\n\nYou probably mean the mass murders of Jews in the West Bank between 1936-1939. \n\n\n\n\n\n\nNaftaly\n\n", "\n\n\n\n\nPerhaps Iranians are not Arabs even not-so-strictly-speaking ?\n\n", "\n |> \n |> Final Solution for the Gaza ghetto ?\n |> ------------------------------------\n |> \n |> While Israeli Jews fete the uprising of the Warsaw ghetto, they\n |> repress by violent means the uprising of the Gaza ghetto and\n |> attempt to starve the Gazans.\n |> \n |> [...]\n |> \n |> The Jews in the Warsaw ghetto were fighting to keep themselves and\n |> their families from being sent to Nazi gas chambers. Groups like Hamas\n |> and the Islamic Jihad fight with the expressed purpose of driving all\n |> Jews into the sea. Perhaps, we should persuade Jewish people to help\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n |> these wnderful \"freedom fighters\" attain this ultimate goal.\n |> \n |> Maybe the \"freedom fighters\" will choose to spare the co-operative Jews.\n |> Is that what you are counting on, Elias - the pity of murderers.\n |> \n |> You say your mother was Jewish. How ashamed she must be of her son. I\n |> am sorry, Mrs. Davidsson.\n |> \n |> Harry.\n\n O.K., its my turn:\n\n\t DRIVING THE JEWS INTO THE SEA ?!\n\n I am sick and tired of this 'DRIVING THE JEWS INTO THE SEA' sentance attributed\n to Islamic movements and the PLO; it simply can't be proven as part of their\n plan !\n\n (Pro Israeli activists repeat it like parrots without checking its authenticity\n since it was coined by Bnai Brith)\n\n What Hamas and Islamic Jihad believe in, as far as I can get from the Arab media,\n is an Islamic state that protects the rights of all its inhabitants under Koranic\n Law. This would be a reversal of the 1948 situation in which the Jews in\n Palestine took control of the land and its (mostly Muslim) inhabitants.\n\n However, whoever committed crimes against humanity (torture, blowing up their\n homes, murders,...) must be treated and tried as a war criminal. The political\n thought of these movements shows that a freedom of choice will be given to the\n Jews in living under the new law or leaving to the destintion of their choice.\n\n As for the PLO, I am at a loss to explain what is going inside Arafat's mind.\n\n Although their political thinking seems far fetched with Israel acting as a true\n super-power in the region, the Islamic movements are using the same weapon the\n Jews used to establish their state : Religion.\n\n\n Ahmed.\n\nForget the syntax, Ahmed, and focus on the semnatics. The fact is that\nthe PLO does not recognize Israel's right to exist. This is perfectly\nobvious from the PLO covenant (Cairo, 1968). The covenant calls for\nthe destruction of the \"Zionist entity\". As far as I know the\nIsrael-destruction clauses still exist in the document which specifies\nthe purpose for the existence of the PLO. If you would like, I can\npost the relevant caluses.\n\nNow the Hamas ideal is far more radical, it seems. I know it has been\nposted here several times, and while I do not have a copy of it, I am\nsure that someone does and he (or she, of course) would be more than\nhappy to repost it.\n\nRegardless of phrasing, groups like Hamas, and the Hezbollah, and\neven the newly moderate and politically-correct PLO, have at the very\nheart of their ideologies the need for the destrcution of Israel.\n\nIt just seems to me that Mr. Davidsson's suggestion that Jews support\npeople envolved in these organizations is not a particularly appealing\none to many Jews.", "\n\nAbout 2 years ago, there was a lot of noise about a Church in the Old\nCity of Jerusalem being taken over by a Jewish group. In fact, the\nbuilding in question was a dormitory that belonged to a church and was \nnot physically connected to any church. It had been leased to a\nPalestinean Arab for 99 years and a Jewish group sub-leased it from\nhim. The church that owned the building disapproved and legal action\nwas started to revoke the sub-lease. The media, however, made it look\nlike Jewish vigilantes were stealing Church property in Jerusalem by\nforce. \n\n\nThe damage has already been done by the press in the above case. It\nis not surprising by now, of course, that many \"decent people\" regard\nthe press \"with utmost suspicion\".\n\n\nYou appear to be referring to Moshe Dayan. How do you know that the\n\"evicted Jordanians\" were not provided with something else? In fact,\nthis thread indicates that they were squatters on land that they did\nnot own but received compensation for their loss, anyways! Woe to\nJews when they feel that recovering land that has been taken from them\nby force (with \"ethnic cleansing\" of any remaining Jews) is\n\"disgusting and shameful\". \n", "\n(Re: the newsgroup -- followups set to talk.politics.mideast where this\nbelongs.)\n\nThis may make the term 'civil war' dubious, but it does nothing to the\nphrase 'destroy the government'. An occupying government is still a govern-\nment, and the Palestinians have made it quite clear that their goal is\nnot simply to prevent it from occupying the territories that don't con-\nfer citizenship (which is your own determination of the distinction) but\nto wipe it out entirely (and, not incidentally, the entire Jewish population\nit rules with it). This is an intent to 'destroy the government', no\nmatter where the government happens to be from.\n\n\nWasn't a requirement for democracy in Athens. For that matter, isn't\na requirement for the term democracy in the United States, which doesn't\nlet non-citizens vote either. Both the United States and Israel have\nprocesses whereby it is possible to acquire citizenship, with a great\ndeal of effort and a modicum of screening -- it's just that it isn't\nautomatic for living in the territories. It isn't automatic for living\nin New York, either.\n\nThat said, suit yourself. Having never considered democracy the ultimate\nin Good In This World, I could care less if you feel like calling Israel,\nor America, or anywhere else, a democracy. Personally, I withhold the\nterm from Israel for the same reason I withhold it from Britain... the\nparliamentary system is a serious handicap.\n\n\nAgain, suit yourself. In which case Israel is *not* attacking its own\npeople, it is fighting a war on foreign soil, in which case the residents\nare entitled to play rough, yes -- but Israel's allowed to get just as\nrough, within the bare limits of the rules of war. This includes, among\nother things, the right to shoot or bomb *anyone* a national of the coun-\ntry in question who is fighting them (which permits mass frontal assault\non all rock-throwers), along with the right to take out any installation\nof military importance (certain villages with too-good fortifications can\nbe handled by aerial bombing, as can waterways since they count as supply\nlines to the enemy), and the right to do anything whatsoever to whatever\nconstitutes a government that they can lay hands on (if Hamas is trying\nto set up as the ruling party, let them beware). \n\nIf this is not the scenario you want, I recommend you go back to calling\nit a civil war. Civil wars have to be handled nicer. You cannot say the\nPalestinians are a nation fighting a resistance war against a foreign\nnation and still call Israel a government who is treating its own people\ncruelly. If the Palestinians are fighting a war against a foreign country,\nso is Israel, and the gloves come *off*.\n\n\t-Naomi\n\n", "\nThe cases aren't really comparable. A project like a freeway requires\npublic hearings, court action, appeals, advance determination of\nrestitution, and so on. The razing of the Moghrabi district in East\nJerusalem happened within hours of the end of the hostilities of the 6\nDay War. The residents were given only two or three hours' notice to\npack up and find accomodations elsewhere. They had no chance of\npublic hearing, debate, appeal, negotiation or anything. It was get\nout or die in the rubble.\n", "Anas Omran...\n\t\n@>\tBut since all Jews that way, they find him a leader to follow!", "\nJews won't agree with you, Malcolm.\n\nCheers,\nKent", "In today's Israeline posting, at the end (an afterthought?), I read:\n\n\nWhile I applaud investing of money in Yehuda, Shomron, v'Chevel-Azza,\nin order to create jobs for their residents, I find it deplorable that\nthis has never been an active policy of any Israeli administration\nsince 1967, *with regard to their Jewish residents*. Past governments\nfound funds to subsidize cheap (read: affordable) housing and the\nrequisite infrastructure, but where was the investment for creating\nindustry (which would have generated income *and* jobs)? \n\nAfter 26 years, Yehuda and Shomron remain barren, bereft of even \nmiddle-sized industries, and the Jewish settlements are sterile\n\"bedroom communities\", havens for (in the main) Israelis (both\nsecular *and* religious) who work in Tel-Aviv or Jerusalem but\ncannot afford to live in either city or their surrounding suburbs.\n\nThere's an old saying: \"bli giboosh, ayn kivoosh\" -- just living there\nwasn't enough, we had to *really* settle it. But instead, we \"settled\"\nfor Potemkin villages, and now we are paying the price (and doing\nfor others what we should have done for ourselves).\n\n", "Absolutely. I'm sure that civilians on both sides would be pleased\nif the fighters (military, guerilla, whatever) would just take their\nargument elsewhere, find an unpopulated area somewhere, and slug it out. \nAt that point, we will all breath a sigh of relief *and* cheer for\nour side in the struggle.\n", "Well i'm not sure about the story nad it did seem biased. What\nI disagree with is your statement that the U.S. Media is out to\nruin Israels reputation. That is rediculous. The U.S. media is\nthe most pro-israeli media in the world. Having lived in Europe\nI realize that incidences such as the one described in the\nletter have occured. The U.S. media as a whole seem to try to\nignore them. The U.S. is subsidizing Israels existance and the\nEuropeans are not (at least not to the same degree). So I think\nthat might be a reason they report more clearly on the\natrocities.\n\tWhat is a shame is that in Austria, daily reports of\nthe inhuman acts commited by Israeli soldiers and the blessing\nreceived from the Government makes some of the Holocaust guilt\ngo away. After all, look how the Jews are treating other races\nwhen they got power. It is unfortunate.\n", "\n\nThis is one of the most ridiculous arguments I have heard from the \nEuropeans. \"Let's let the Serbs massacre, rape, and ethnically clean\n100,000 Bosnians because we don't want our pretty blue berets there\nto get scratched\". Well, I say, get them the hell out of there if you're\nworried for them, but don't deny Bosnians their basic right to self\ndefense! Lift the embargo against Bosnia, and let them defend themselves.\nWhat makes the UN troops more valuable than the Bosnian people? They\nare letting the civilians die so the soldiers could survive, when\nif anything, it should be the other way around. Idiots like Owen \nexpect Bosnians to swallow a forced plan, and just hope this problem\nwill go away. Well they're wrong. If they had got their butts in gear\n(that is, if Bosnia had oil) a year ago, much of this could be prevented.\nNow, however, the results of this tragedy will last for generations.\nThat's like forcing the jews to make peace with Hitler. Yeah right.\nThis, as senator Biden said, reeks of bigotry, and makes me and any \ndecent human being for that matter, quite sick. It should be the\nEuropeans, not the Americans, who take the inititiative and ask the\nother for support. This is their backyard, not the Americans.\nToday it's Bosnia, tomorrow it will be Kosovo and Macedonia, Greece,\nand then Turkey, and the damn thing will spread. Not to mention \nEuropean muslims who weren't even practicing before will rally to\nfundamentalism. Good luck handling that, your majesty! Owen was\nupset at the question which compared him to Chamberlain, who hoped\nto appease Hitler. He said that Chamberlain had been in Munich 2 years\nbefore any war, I have been here during a blazing war for the last\n18 months. Well, that makes him even worse, because Chamberlain could\nhave at least argued I'm giving Germany the benefit of the doubt,\nwhereas Owen can't even do that. What the west is doing is aiding the\nSerbs by tying the Bosnians' hands, and making the stupid excuse of their\npowerless troops on the ground, who can't even protect the Bosnian foreign\nminister in their own armored vehicle, and watch the killers just walk\naway! What kind of peace is this? What kind of civilization is this?\n\n\nEuropean leaders are PATHETIC, and are helping a genocide which even they\nwill not be able to forget. Yeah, they'll go to Africa and fight for some\ndamn dictator in their former colony, they'll go to Kuwait and fight for\noil, but in Bosnia not only they won't fight aggression, they'll even\ntie the hands of the victim. Now you tell me who is fooling whom.\n\n\n", "\nArab leaders are now following by Islamic rules? (Or is it only applicable\nin cases like this?) :-\n\nI remember an article of about a year ago which stated that besides his wife,\nSaddam also has a mistress. Assad's brother has a wife and *several*\nmistresses, and those 'emirs' in the Gulf have, within their lifetimes,\nwives in the double digitas (only they manage to keep four at a time).\n \nThis is all irrelevant. It takes a *lot* more than infidelity to make these\nleaders ruthless and corrupt. Maybe Netanyahu thought he could 'cleanse'\nhimself by making such a public confession. Does the average secular Israeli\ncare, though? The Mossad probably applauded him. :-)\n", "\n And why are we in Somalia? When right across the Gulf of Aden are\n some of the wealthiest Arab nations on the planet? Why does the \n US always become the point man for this stuff? I don't mind us\n helping out; but what invariably happens is that everybody expects\n us to do most of the work and take most of the risks, even when these\n events are occuring in other people's back yards, and they have the\n resources to deal with them quite well, thank you. I mean, it's \n not like either Serbia, or Somalia represent some overwhelming\n military force that their neighbors can't handle. Nor are the \n logistics a big deal -- it's a lot bigger logistical challenge \n to get troops and supplies from New York to Somalia, than from \n Saudi Arabia; harder to go from Texas to Serbia, than Turkey or \n Austria to Serbia.\n", "\n\nTrumpets, please.\n\n\n\"Forced to go to Palestine.\" How dreadful. Unlike other\nundesirables/Jews, she wasn't forced to go into a gas chamber, forced\nunder a bulldozer, thrown into a river, forced into a \"Medical\nexperiment\" like a rat, forced to march until she dropped dead, burned\nto nothingness in a crematorium. Your mother was \"forced to go to\nPalestine.\" You have our deepest sympathies.\n\n\nWe are pleased to hear of your escape. At least you won't have to\nsuffer the same fate that your mother did.\n\n\nYour homeland, Palestine? \n\n\nShould we assume that you are refering here to Jews who were kicked\nout of their homes in Jerusalem during the Jordanian Occupation of\nEast Jerusalem? These are the same people who are now being called\nthieves for re-claiming houses that they once owned and lived in and\nnever sold to anyone?\n\n\nI have never heard of NOT being a Jew as a crime. Certainly in\nIsrael, there is no such crime. In some times and places BEING a Jew\nis a crime, but NOT being a Jew??!!\n\n\nOur brains do not accept your logic, yet, either.\n\n\nThe way you've written this, you seem to accept criticism in the Arab\nworld UNLESS it deflects criticism from Israel, in which case, we have\nto presume, you no longer support criticism of the Arab world.\n\n\nLook who's taling about discrimination now!\n\n\nBe careful. You are starting to sound like Barfling.\n\n\nGood. Don't call yourself \"ARF\" or \"the Center for Policy Research\",\neither. \n", "From: Center for Policy Research \nSubject: Zionism - racism\n\n\nDiaspora 'a cancer'\n------------------- by Julian Kossoff and Lindsay Schusman in:\nJewish Chronicle, London, 22. Dec. 1989\n\nLeading Israeli author and cultural commentator, A.B. Yehoshua,\nlaunched a ferocious attack on diaspora Jewry at a Zionist Youth\nCouncil meeting in North London, last week.\n\nThe diaspora, he claimed, \"was the cancer connected to the main\ntissue of the Jewish people\". He was scathing about its failure to\nact before the Holocaust.\n\nHe said the diaspora's religious and secular leadership had\nignored the warning signs in the 1920s, and had fiercely opposed\nZionism. Consequently, he considered the Holocaust, \"the failure\nof Judaism\".\n\nHis talk, entitled \"Diaspora: A Neurotic Solution\", covered 5,000\nyears of Jewish history.\n\nMr. Yehoshua's other targets included Soviet Jews who were, he\nsaid \"not staying [in Israel], but running [away]\", and all Jews\noutside Israel \"who were using other people's countries like\nhotels\".\n\nThe only conclusion he could draw was that the diaspora was\nimmoral, because it looked to Israel for its identity but lived\nelsewhere.\n\nWorse, it threatened Israel itself, creating a distraction for her\ncitizens, who were leaving by the thousands.\n\nMr. Yehoshua, who described himself as \"a soldier for aliyah\",\nended by calling for the creation of a new \"total Jew\", living in\nIsrael.\n\nEarlier, speaking at a meeting of Jewish students on the\ndifficulties of forging a national identity in Israeli literature,\nMr. Yehoshua claimed that Israeli writers were paralyzed by the\ncountry's political situation.\n\nHe said Israel's wars had once provided writers with a vital\nsource of inspiration. Today, Israeli writers avoided writing\ndirectly about the Arab-Israeli conflict. No major work had been\nproduced about the intifada.\n\nInstead, writers were tackling themes such as Jewish identity,\nemigration from Israel and personal and family issues.\n\nMr. Yehoshua admitted he also felt unable to write about the\nIsraeli political situation. He could no longer step into an\nIsraeli Arab's shoes and portray him as a real \"flesh and blood\ncharacter\".\n\nHe claimed that after 40 years of statehood, the problem of\nIsraeli identity had not been solved. He said Jews remained too\npre-occupied with the borders of identity between Jew and non-Jew,\nand were not concerned with the nature of that identity.\n\nJewish values in Israel embraced every aspect of daily life,\nunlike in the diaspora, where Jews had no responsibility for the\ncountry they lived in, he said.\n\nHe warned that modern Hebrew, a unifying force for the Jewish\npeople, would have to struggle for its future, especially in\nliterary circles. It faced fierce competition from the English\nlanguage.\n", "From article <93111.225707PP3903A@auvm.american.edu>, by Paul H. Pimentel :\n\n\nThere is one big difference between Israel and the Arabs, Christians in this\nrespect.\n\nIsrael allows freedom of religion.", "\n From: Center for Policy Research \n Subject: Zionism - racism\n\n\n Diaspora 'a cancer'\n ------------------- by Julian Kossoff and Lindsay Schusman in:\n Jewish Chronicle, London, 22. Dec. 1989\n\n Leading Israeli author and cultural commentator, A.B. Yehoshua,\n launched a ferocious attack on diaspora Jewry at a Zionist Youth\n Council meeting in North London, last week.\n\n The diaspora, he claimed, \"was the cancer connected to the main\n tissue of the Jewish people\". He was scathing about its failure to\n act before the Holocaust.\n\n\n [ deleted for bravity ]\n\n\n Jewish values in Israel embraced every aspect of daily life,\n unlike in the diaspora, where Jews had no responsibility for the\n country they lived in, he said.\n\n He warned that modern Hebrew, a unifying force for the Jewish\n people, would have to struggle for its future, especially in\n literary circles. It faced fierce competition from the English\n language.\n\n -------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nSo?\n\n--Amos", ": \n: While you brought up the separate question of Israel's unjustified\n: policies and practices, I am still unclear about your reaction to\n: the practices and polocies reflected in the article above.\n: \n: Tim\n\nNot a separate question Mr. Clock. It is deceiving to judge the \nresistance movement out of the context of the occupation.", "Deletions...\n\nSo, you consider the german poster's remark anti-semitic? Perhaps you\nimply that anyone in Germany who doesn't agree with israely policy in a\nnazi? Pray tell, how does it even qualify as \"casual anti-semitism\"? \nIf the term doesn't apply, why then bring it up?\n\nYour own bigotry is shining through. \n-- ", "\n\n\nThe NY Times is in error. This is not simply my opinion; even the Arab sources\nthat I use do not make this claim. This, of course, is assuming that the NY\nTimes was refering to the islands that I named above. Of those islands, only\nAbu Musa has been in dispute and Iranian occupation of that island predates\nthe existence of the UAE.", "\n\nYes the govt handled it in the Rambo Hollywood type style\nwith extreeme Machismo. Perhaps thats not the way to handle\nit. \n\nIt is a completely different thing to start asserting as many\nhave done that the government is primarily to blame. The comparisons\nwith the NAZIs in particular are purely gratuitous.\n\nSince you have provided a constructive opinion on the issue your\npost desreves to be taken seriously. Peter Nelson also made some\nvery good points about how a low key approach might have been \nmore effective.\n\nThe point is though that you learn through mistakes. The govt\nplayed the wrong card and lost. Thats not a big deal. They\nhad had four guys murdered at the begining and maybee they \njust were not prepared for wuite this situation. Who could be?\n\nIf the same thing were to happen all over again we might perhaps\nbe able to castigate the Govt if they used the same tactics and failed\nin the same way. As it is I can't say that I would not have made the\nsame mistake. Maybee I wouldn't because I don't as a rule go in\nfor a confrontational situation if I can avoid it. Maybee I would\nbecause with all those press about its very difficult not to try\nthe macho stuff.\n\n\nThe FBI had information from within the compound we had no access\nto. They may have calculated that the B-D followers resolve was\ncracking based on their listening devices within the compound. They\nknew that Koresh had chickened out of one suicide attempt. This\nmay have been the reason why they considered that fear might have \nbeen a weapon for breaking his resolve. Again in Panama they had used\nthe heavy rock music to great effect during Bush's invasion. Funny that\nfew of the Koresh supporters and appologists complain much about the\ndeath of several thousand Pananmanian civilians while the US govt attempted\nto arrest their former ally.\n\n\n\nKoresh negated his civil rights the minute his followers fired\non the police helicopter. No matter whether the warrant was or\nwas not technically valid the guys who were carrying it out \nthought that it was. Thus the assault on them was completely\ninexcusable no matter what rationalisation people might wish to\nemploy.\n\nOf course we have to consider the guns issue. That is the whole\ncore of the question. Everything else is a diversion.\n", "\nADL authorities seem to view a lot of people as dangerous, including\nthe millions of Americans of Arab ancestry. Perhaps you can answer\nthe question as to why the ADL maintained files and spied on ADC members\nin California (and elsewhere??)? Friendly rivalry perhaps?\n\nPerhaps Yigal is a Greenpeace member? Or the NAACP? Or a reporter? \nOr a member of any of the dozens of other political organizations/ethnic \nminorities/occupations that the ADL spied on.\n\n\nParanoia?\n\n\nThe names of half the posters on this forum, unless they already \nhave them.\n", "\tAll humans suffered emotionally, some Jews and many\nothers suffered physically. It is sad that people like you are\nso blinded by emotions that they can't see the facts. Thanks\nfor calling me names, it only assures me of what kind of\nignorant people I am dealing with. I included your letter since\nI thought it demonstrated my point more than anything I could\nwrite. \n", "\n\nThank you, Brad/Ali, for warning us about the dangers of propaganda.\nIt's funny, though, coming from you.\n\n\nWho is it that executes these \"pin-point attacks\" on Israelis? The\nguys in the white hats or the ones in the black hats? Neither? You\nmean that they are just civilians, farmers, teachers, school children?\nWell, maybe they ARE terrorists, after all? And maybe that\n\"propaganda\" was correct, too? Hmm?\n", "\n [pseudo-letterhead deleted -- dcs]\n\n# While Israeli Jews fete the uprising of the Warsaw ghetto, they\n# repress by violent means the uprising of the Gaza ghetto and\n# attempt to starve the Gazans.\n\n Why do I detect the faint scent of bias here? Could it be because\n the Israelis aren't feasting? Perhaps because the Gazans aren't\n starving?\n\n# The Gaza strip, this tiny area of land with the highest population\n# density in the world,\n\n Oh, oh. I hadn't realized that the Chinese had wiped out Hong\n Kong, or that Singapore had sunk into the sea, or that several\n other cities had vanished. Either that, or this is a taste of\n the quality of 'Research' we're about to see.\n\n# has been cut off from the world for weeks.\n\n So I suppose that the footage on CNN last night was archival,\n and Ted Turner was faking it after the NBC style? Or is this\n another wee little exaggeration for the sake of a Greater Truth?\n\n# The Israeli occupier has decided to punish the whole population of\n# Gaza, some 700.000 people, by denying them the right to leave the\n# strip and seek work in Israel.\n\n Hey! You forgot that Israel has also denied Syrians the same\n 'right'. Come to think of it, Mexico is denying me that 'right'\n evan as I write this! Or are you ever so gently suggesting that\n Israel, unlike every other country on Earth, shouldn't be allowed\n to control traffic across its borders?\n\n# While Polish non-Jews risked their lives to save Jews from the\n# Ghetto, no Israeli Jew is known to have risked his life to help\n# the Gazan resistance. The only help given to Gazans by Israeli\n# Jews, only dozens of people, is humanitarian assistance.\n\n This sounds like a parallel, but it isn't. Tell us how many Poles\n went into the Ghetto to join the Jews there. Oops! For a moment\n there I forgot that in Poland, 'humanitarian assistance\" could\n get you killed. Come to think of it, humanitarian assistance to\n the Gazans can get Israelis killed, too. Except that in Gaza,\n it's likely to be by a Gazan death squad in your own office.\n\n So let's keep the parallel. Since the gross numbers aren't the\n same, we'll need a proportionality value. Should we use:\n * Gazan vs Jewish initial population?\n * Gazan vs Jewish death rates?\n * Gazans vs Jews who survived five years of occupation?\n * Israelis vs Nazis attacked by the 'resistance'?\n * Israelis vs Poles charged with aiding the victims?\n Since the two cases are so comparable, it shouldn't matter\n which we pick, they'll all be about the same, right?\n\n------------\n\nContrary to popular hyperbole, the IDF *could* quite easily kill\noff the entire population of Gaza in hours if they wanted to.\n(No, I'm not exaggerating. And I really don't want to discuss how.)\nNote that a million dead Gazans don't get much more headline\nspace than a dozen, and are just as soon forgotten -- and once\nexterminated, they can't keep popping up as headlines.\n\nSo if a \"Final Solution\" for Gaza would be so much better from\na *Realpolitik* standpoint, why doesn't Israel go for it? A\ndifficult question to answer for those who can't believe anything\ngood about Jews, and probably why they keep trying to force-fit\nthe facts into the theory.\n", "\n\n\nWhere in the world did you get this? Please read history books before\nyou start talking something\n", "WASHINGTON (UPI) -- A senior State Department official on Tuesday\nruled out any softening of U.S. attitudes toward Iraq but said relations\nwith Iran's Islamic regime could improve substantially if that\ngovernment disassociates itself from international terrorism.\n\t``Despite the name-calling and the harsh rhetoric from across the\nGulf, despite all this, we do not take a position of permanent hostility\ntowards the Islamic Republic of Iran,'' David Mack, deputy assistant\nsecretary for Near Eastern Affairs, said.\n\tThe primary U.S. objection is ``Iran's international behaviour''\nwhich includes ``extending support of violence'' to disrupt the Arab\nIsraeli peace process and its rapid build-up of dangerous weapons.\n\tMack said ``Iran could contribute to regional stability and peace but\nfirst it is to end the behaviour which threatens this area.''\n\tMack spoke at the U.S.-GCC business conference aimed at promoting\nGulf-American trade. He said the ``Middle East will be an item very high\non the agenda of the U.S. administration.''\n\tThe importance of the Gulf is underlined by Secretary of State Warren\nChristoper's visit last year to Saudi Arabia and Kuwait before anywhere\nelse in the world, Mack said. He added that the U.S. has no long-term\nplan to station troops in the Gulf.\n\tMack also insisted that the Clinton administration will continue to\npressure Iraq to ``comply with all the U.N. Security resolutions.''\n\t``As long as Iraq is ruled by Saddam Hussein we do not expect\ncompliance,'' Mack told delegates.\n", "Congratulations also are due to the Hamas activists who blew up the \nWorld Trade Center, no? After all, with every American that they put\n\nin the grave they are underlining the USA's bankrupt imperialist\npolicies. Go HAmas!\n\nBlah blah blah blah blah\n\nBrad, you are only asking that that violence that you love so much\ncome back to haunt you...............", "\n\n\t\"So after 1000 years of sightseeing and roaming around its \n\tok to come back, kill Palastinians, and get their land back, \n\tright?\"\n\nYes, that's casual antisemitism. I can think of plenty of ways\nto criticize Israeli policy without insulting Jews or Jewish history.\n\nCan't you?", "dear pete,\n\nfor one who is so zionist as you, you should at least know your\nhebrew, young man.\n\nThe last sentence in your posting should read:\n\nMedina achat leshnai amim (not Echad medionnot leshtai amim).\n\nI don't want to address your comments. They speak for themselves.\n\nbest regards from a Palestinian of Jewish origin who talks, reads and writes\nHebrew and does not hate Jews nor anybody else. ", "\n\nAlthough the Hebrew expression LE'UM is used, the ID card specifically states on\nthe 2nd page: EZRACHUT YISREALIT: Israeli citizen. This is true for all\nIsraeli citizens no matter what their ethnicity. In the United States most\nofficial forms have RACE (Caucasian, Black, AmerIndian, etc.).\n\n\nFunny, I have a number of maps and ALL of them have fixed borders.\n\n\n\n\nProbably yes. So what ?\n\n\n\n\n\nApart from Mordechai Vanunu who had a trial behind closed doors, there was one\nother espionage case (the nutty professor at the Nes Ziona Biological\nInstitute who was a K.G.B. mole) who was tried \"in camera\". I wouldn't exactly\ncall it a state secret. The trial was simply tried behind closed doors. I hate\nto disappoint you but the United States has tried a number of espionage cases\nin camera.\n\n\n\nNot Jews. Israeli citizens. Jordanian law is in effect in the West Bank but the\nKNESSET passed a law that Israeli law would be binding on Israeli citizens\nresiding in the West Bank. These citizens could be Jews, Israeli Muslims, Druze,\nor Israeli Christians. It has NOTHING to do with religion.\n\n\n\n\n\nAnyone who was registered (Jew, Muslim, Christian) could return. You might be\nconfusing this with the census taken in June 1967 on the West Bank after the\nSix Day War. In *this* instance, if the Arab was not physically present he\ncouldn't reside on the West Bank (e.g. if he had been visting Jordan).\n\n\n\nNo. Not even if you drowned him in bourbon, scotch or brandy :-)\n\n\n\n\nNot true. Although a minority, there *are* some Israeli Arabs living on\nkibbutzim. On the other hand, at my age (42) I wouldn't be admitted to a\nkibbutz nor could the family join me. Not that I would be so thrilled to do so\nin the first place. The kibbbutz movement places candidates under rigorous\nmembership criteria. Many Israeli Jews are not admitted.\n\n\n\nThe religious status quo in Israel has marriage and divorce handled by the\nreligious courts. The RABBANUT handles marriage and divorce for Jews, the\nMuslim SHAARIA courts are for Muslims, the Christian denominations have their\nreligious courts, and the Druze have their own courts. The entire religious\nestablishment (Jewish, Muslim, Druze, Christian) wants to keep it that way.\n\n\nI believe it's adjacent to a former Muslim cemetary. From what I heard (and I'd\nlike to get feedback from Muslins on the net) sanctity of cemetaries is not\nheld that sancrosanct as it is held by Jews. The current Israeli Ministry of\nTrade and Industry on Agron Road in Jerusalem is housed in a former hotel that\nwas built by Arabs in the 1920's on the site of an Arab cemetary.\n\n\nJosh\nbackon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL\n\n\n\n", "The above headline is much better than the original one.\nread on..\n\n\nSo far so good...\n\n\nOld friend, whatever....\n\n\nThat is a great attitude for someone who wants to pressure the Serbs to\naccept a peace plan that gives them most of the territory they got by\nforce and terror.\n\n\nthis is a good thing to hear. Anybody wondering why Serbia is not\nreally under any boycott? Anybody remembers the Gulf war? Did Saddam\nkill 100,000 people and rape 50,000 women? \n\n\nStill in the threatening stage.. Maybe when there is no more Bosnians,\nthe UN will lift the arms Embargo on them! Military intervention? that\nis reserved for Muslim countries.\n\nNOW HEAR THIS:\n\nreal positive I might add, in favor of his old freinds of course!\n\n\nYou bet they are not!\n\n", "I always believed the statement 'those who do not know their history\nare condemned to repeat it (Will Durant ?), but I am beginning to\nbelieve the opposite is true.\n\nHere in t.p.m and in other newsgroups it seems that history is\nmainly remembered to foment hatred or to be used as a club. In the\nhistory of my own people there are ample acts of shame, both done\nby my people and done to my people. Since I was not party to any\nof those acts, I refuse to accept blame for the evil acts that my\nancestors committed, nor do I direct hatred toward the descendants\nof those who committed evil acts against my ancestors.\n\nWill all of this discussion rebuild a single mosque? Will it rebuild\nthe Temple? Somehow I doubt that it will.\n\nA post in another group, on the Bosnian war, asked us all to love\neach other, that love would conquer hate. Sadly, I remember a TV\ninterview with a young woman in Sarajevo (sp?) who was as I remember,\na former olympic calibre contestant in the rifle shoot. She was now\ntrying to pick-off Serbian snipers. During the communist years she\nhad married a Serb, who was now fighting against her people. So it\nseems that hate will conquer love.\n\nIs there an odd chance that we might all forget past wrongs and try\nand see how we might all live together? It's a damn small planet,\nwhich we have come very close to turning into a radioactive ball,\nglowing softly in space. We seem to have been spared that prospect,\nshall we now bathe it in each other's blood?\n\nShalom, Salam, and Peace", "Are you pretending not knowing it? Here is why:\n\"Those who are not obedient to we West must be evil!\".\n\n\n", "In eggertj@moses.ll.mit.edu\n\n\nWhen I was in Jerusalem a couple of years ago, our guide told\nus the story of that mosque - not sure if it was true.\n\nApparently, it was built by a Jewish convert to Islam. He had\nhad a dispute with his neighbours, and built the mosque \"davka\" to\nannoy them. It's a cute story, but not sure if it's true...\n", "\n What if we remove one zeron and make it \"the genocide of two hundred\n thousands Muslims in Bosnia..\", would that make it any better..?\n And how about the 2,000,000 Muslims who were driven and continue to\n be driven out of their homes..? is that \"utterly ridiculous claim\"?\n And how about the rapes (over 60,000 women) and the concentration \n camps..? The us delegation which visited them reported yesterday\n on CNN that the serbs are giving the muslims detainees 4 biscuits\n and a cup of water a day..!!??\n That sure also sounds like an \"utterly ridiculous claim\".!\n", "\nActually, the record of the Allies activities, in the face of\nincontrovertible evidence as to what the Nazis (may they rot in hell)\nwere doing, clearly points to the conclusion that they would have done\nnothing. The railways to the camps were not bombed, despite the ease\nof doing so. The US, the \"place of refuge\" allowed in a bare pittance\nof Jews from Europe, primarily for public relations, so that the\ngovernment could say it was \"doing something\". Many ships with\nrefugees were turned away from US shores; some found refuge in Cuba or\nSouth America, many others sunk or had to return to Europe (with\npredictable consequences). The hope today is that we have\ncollectively learned a lesson, and are less complacent to ignore other\ncountries' \"internal affairs\". The sad reality is that this does not\nseem to be the case.\n\n", "Joachim Martillo writes\n\nIf you were to substitute the word \"Jew\"/\"Jewish\" in this posting where you \nsee the word \"Muslim\"/\"Islamic\", switch Joachim and Mohammed's names around, \nand then repost this, you would get a flood of messages attacking the author \nas an anti-semite. And rightly so. The author of this crap is a racist, pure \nand simple. He obviously has no qualms about being open with it, either, \nunlike some other Arab- and Mulsim-bashers on the Net. \n\nNow, I for one, am not going to look at Joachim's posting and infer from it \nthat all Jews think this way. Sure, there might be some, but this view is not \na part of Judaism, and it is stupid to believe that all Jews' minds are this \ntwisted. However, some Muslims might look at Joachim's flame as a \nreaffirmation of their worst fears about Jews: that they all hate Arabs and \nare racists.\n\nFor this reason, I am alarmed that not more Jews on the Net have spoken out \nagainst what Joachim has said. They have the chance to possibly change the \nanti-semitic views of some people on the net, to show them that all Jews do \n*not* hate all Arabs and Muslims, just like all Muslims do *not* hate all \nJews. Yet they are missing that chance. Remember, to many people, silence \nimplies consent.\n\nPeace.\n--", "From: Center for Policy Research \nSubject: From Israeli press. Short notes.\n\n/* Written 4:43 pm Apr 16, 1993 by cpr@igc.apc.org in igc:mideast.forum */\n/* ---------- \"From Israeli press. Short notes.\" ---------- */\nFROM THE ISRAELI PRESS\n\nHadashot, 14 March 1993:\n\nThe Israeli Police Department announced on the evening of Friday,\nMarch 12 that it is calling upon [Jewish] Israeli citizens with\ngun permits to carry them at all times \"so as to contribute to\ntheir security and that of their surroundings\".\n\nHa'aretz, 15 March 1993:\n\nYehoshua Matza (Likud), Chair of the Knesset Interior Committee,\nstated that he intends to demand that the police department make\nit clear to the public that anyone who wounds or kills\n[non-Jewish] terrorists will not be put on trial.\n\nHa'aretz, 16 March1993:\n\nToday a private security firm and units from the IDF Southern\nCommand will begin installation of four magnetic gates in the Gaza\nstrip, as an additional stage in the upgrading of security\nmeasures in the Strip.\n\nThe gates will aid in the searching of [non-Jewish] Gaza residents\nas they leave for work in Israel. They can be used to reveal the\npresence of knives, axes, weapons and other sharp objects.", "\n\nYour suggestion to learn something about \"the perversion of Judaism\"\nfrom someone you claim has experience in Israeli intelligence and the\nPLO is like a suggestion to learn something about the conspiracy of\nSesame Street from someone with experience in fashion design and\npizza-making. \n\n\n\"Judeo-Nazism\"? CPR, you're in a league with Barf Shmidling himself.\nYou can take that as a compliment, if you see it that way.\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\nYour bad English? (See quote above.)\n\n\n\nYou'd lose that wager, if the supporting argument were part of it.\n\n\nDid you know that Hitler himself was a devout Christian? And heterosexual?\n\n--Drywid", "\nI am not so sure of Jewish proselytism then, but I would like to relate\nan account of a recent dinner I had with Jews a few months ago.\n\nThe dinner was instigated by the aunt of the hostess, whom I had met while\nvisiting my wife in Galveston last October. The dear old aunt (now \ndeceased) was very proud of her Jewish heritage, although not especially\ndevout. Her parents were both murdered in Nazi concentration camps in\nAustria during WWII because they were Jewish. While conversing with her\nabout politics, world affairs and religion, she remarked that it would \nbe a good idea for me to visit her niece on my return to Atlanta.\n\nWithin two days of returning to Atlanta, her niece called to invite\nme over for dinner with her husband. I went, not knowing really what to\nexpect, other than stimulating conversation and fellowship. What I got,\nhowever, was rather unexpected. The thrust of the evening's discussion\nwas to condemn the Reagan-Bush policies prohibiting abortion counseling \nin federally funded family planning clinics, prohibiting the sterilization\nof minorities on welfare here and in Puerto Rico, on\nthe ban on fetal tissue research, and against the Mexico City policy,\n\"which denies U.S. foreign aid to programs overseas that promote abortion.\"\n\nThe crux of their position was to place the blame for the problems of\n\"overpopulation,\" rampant domestic crime, African starvation, unwed\nmothers, etc., on Christianity, rather on the fall of Adam. Now, this\nis not what I had to come to talk about. But every time I tried to \nbring up the subject of Judaism, they would condemn Jews for Jesus\nand admonish me against converting to Judaism, \"because it involves\ntoo much study and effort.\" And I did not even raise the prospect, nor\ntry to convert them to the truth of Christ! There was certainly no\nJewish proselytism going on there.\n\nAnd again, last November I toured a \"traditional\" Jewish synagogue and was\nsubjected to a 30-minute harangue against Jesus and Christianity in\ngeneral. I realize that these are two isolated incidents, and that the\nbest supervisor I ever had at work is Jewish, but from my experience,\nthe modern Jew is not known for his proselytism.\n\n \n-- \nboundary", "The latest Israeli \"proposal\", first proposed in February of 1992, contains \nthe following assumptions concerning the nature of any \"interim status\" \nrefering to the WB and Gaza, the Palestinians, implemented by negotiations.\nIt states that: \n >Israel will remain the existing source of authority until \"final status\"\n is agreed upon;\n >Israel will negiotiate the delegation of power to the organs of the \n Interim Self-Government Arrangements (ISGA);\n >The ISGA will apply to the \"Palestinian inhabitants of the territories\"\n under Israeli military administration. The arrangements will not have a \n territorial application, nor will they apply to the Israeli population \n of the territories or to the Palestinian inhabitants of Jerusalem;\n >Residual powers not delegated under the ISGA will be reserved by Israel;\n >Israelis will continue to live and settle in the territoriesd;\n >Israel alone will have responsibility for security in all its aspects-\n external, internal- and for the maintenance of public order;\n >The organs of the ISGA will be of an administrative-functional nature;\n >The exercise of powers under the ISGA will be subject to cooperation and \n coordination with Israel. \n >Israel will negotiate delegation of powers and responsibilities in the \n areas of administration, justice, personnel, agriculture, education,\n business, tourism, labor and social welfare, local police,\n local transportation and communications, municipal affairs and religious\n affairs.\n\nSeveral question do come to mind concerning the \"success\" we all hope for \nin the ongoing negotiation process. These arrangements certainly seem to \nbe essentially a rejection of any Palestinian \"interim\" self-control. \nWithout exposing itself to unwarranted risks and creating irresversible \nvulnerability, can Israel reasonably put forward (at later points in the \nnegotiating process) more \"relaxed\" proposals for this\"interim\" period? \nHow should proposals (from either side) be altered to temper their \n\"maximalist\" approaches as stated above? How can Israeli worries ,and \ndesire for some \"interim control\", be addressed while providing for a \nvery *real* interim Palestinian self-governing entity?\n\nTim\n\n\n\n", "massacre.\n\nAnswer: a(1-1/2-1/4-1/11)=280 -> a = 1760", "WASHINGTON - A stark reminder of the Holocaust--a speech by Nazi \nSS leader Heinrich Himmler that refers to \"the extermination of the\nJewish race\"--went on display Friday at the National Archives.\n\tThe documents, including handwritten notes by Himmler, are\namong the best evidence that exists to rebut claims that the\nHolocaust is a myth, archivists say.\n\t\"The notes give them their authenticity,\" said Robert Wolfe,\na supervisory archivist for captured German records. \"He was\nsupposed to destroy them. Like a lot of bosses, he didn't obey his\nown rules.\"\n\tThe documents, moved out of Berlin to what Himmler hoped\nwould be a safe hiding place, were recovered by Allied forces after\nWorld War II from a salt mine near Salzburg, Austria.\n\tHimmler spoke on Oct.4, 1943, in Posen, Poland, to more than\n100 German secret police generals. \"I also want to talk to you,\nquite frankly, on a very grave matter. Among ourselves it should be\nmentioned quite frankly, and yet we will never speak of it publicly.\nI mean the clearing out of the Jew, the extermination of the Jewish\nrace. This is a page of GLORY in our history which has never been\nwritten and is never to be written.\" [Emphasis mine--rje]\n\tThe German word Himmler uses that is translated as\n\"extermination\" is *Ausrottung*.\n\tWolfe said a more precise translation would be \"extirpation\"\nor \"tearing up by the roots.\"\n\tIn his handwritten notes, Himmler used a euphemism,\n\"Judenevakuierung\" or \"evacuation of the Jews.\" But archives\nofficials said \"extermination\" is the word he actually\nspoke--preserved on an audiotape in the archives.\n\tHimmler, who oversaw Adolf Hitler's \"final solution of the\nJewish question,\" committed suicide after he was arrested in 1945.\n\tThe National Archives exhibit, on display through May 16, is\na preview of the opening of the United States Holocaust Memorial\nMuseum here on April 26.\n\tThe National Archives exhibit includes a page each of\nHimmler's handwritten notes, a typed transcript from the speech and\nan offical translation made for the Nuremberg war crimes trials.\n\n\t---From p.A10 of Saturday's L.A. Times, 4/17/93\n\t(Associated Press)", "Danny Rubenstein, an Israeli journalist, will be speaking tonight \n(Wednesday, 7:30 pm) on the messy subject of politics in Israel.\nHe is speaking at Hillel on the U.C. Berkeley campus. The talk is\nsponsored by the Berkeley Israel Action Committee (IAC).", "Wow! It's sad to see that the University of Virginia has begun\nto produce such a virulent breed of Jew-haters and self-hating\nJews! \n", "From: Center for Policy Research \nSubject: Help Palestinian education\n\n\nHOW TO HELP PALESTINIAN EDUCATION\n\n(From 'Educational Network', No. 11, April 1993,\npubl. by Ramallah Friends Schools, P.O.Box 66, \nRamallah, West Bank, via Israel\nTel. 972-2-956230, Fax. 972-2-956231)\n\nMany of our readers have written to us asking how \nindividuals and organizations can help Palestinian \neducation. We have compiled a list of suggestions to guide \nyou. If you are interested in pursuing one or more of \nthese suggested activities, the Educational Network can \naid you by /coordinating/ the initial contacts, /following \nup/, and /providing any other support/ you may need.\n\n1. Link your teachers' union with a teachers' union here \n--- linkage should be based on a shared pedagogical \nenterprise.\n\n2. Get your union to actively support the right of \nPalestinian teachers in the Occupied Territories to form \nunions:\n\na. through the International Labor Organization (if your \nunion is a member)\nb. contacting other international unions which have \nsupported our right to form a union -- we can supply \nnames and addresses.\n\n3. Establish a SCHOLARSHIP FUND for one or more \nPalestinian students to study at a Palestinian university \nor school -- or establish a scholarship fund for a \nPalestinian student or teacher to study at a university \nabroad.\n\n4. Reproduce and publish information about Palestinian \neducation:\n\n a. for your union membership;\n b. for the outside community.\n\nThe Educational Network can supply up-to-date \ninformation and statistics.\n\n5. Send delegations of teachers to visit the Occupied \nTerritories during periods when our schools are in \nsession.\n\nThe Network can arrange an itinerary, make hotel and \nlocal travel arrangements, and provide a guide for the \nvisit.\n\n6. Sponsor Palestinian teachers to visit your city for an \neducational tour:\n\n a. to see schools and speak with educators in order to\n learn about progressive pedagogical ideas and\n experiences;\n\n b. to speak about the conditions of Palestinian\n education.\n\nThe Network will coordinate from Palestine.\n\n7. Establish teacher-exchange programs for one year in \nwhich a Palestinian teacher from a private school teaches \nat a public or private school abroad while a teacher from \nthat school spends a year in a Palestinian private school.\n\n8. Send an experienced educator to the Occupied \nTerritories to give workshops (all-day workshops or two-\nday workshops) on innovative teaching techniques.\n\nThe Network will pay for the person's food, lodging, and \ntravel while in Palestine, and will serve as guide.\n\n9. Set up a pen-pal program with a Palestinian school in \neither English or French.\n\n10. Set up a sister-school program with a Palestinian \nschool which would actively involve teachers as well as \nstudents at both schools -- a great tool for building \ninternational understanding and mutual sensitivity.\n\n11. Keep the Educational Network informed about \nimportant educational conferences so that we can send a \nPalestinian teacher to attend.\n\n12. Send to the Educational Network articles or other \nwritings or books dealing with innovative approaches and \nideas in the field of education so that we can then \ndisseminate the information locally.", "\n\nThat's why the Zionists decided that Zion must be Gentile-rein.\nWhat?! They didn't?! You mean to tell me that the early Zionists\nactually granted CITIZENSHIP in the Jewish state to Christian and\nMuslim people, too? \n\nIt seems, Elias, that your \"first point to note\" is wrong, so the rest\nof your posting isn't worth much, either.\n\nTa ta...\n", "Yea, I think not also. Israel's #1 issue is \"Security\" so *any* outcomes\nof \"negotiation\" certainly need to address ISREAL'S perception of this\nissue.\n\nThe problem is is defining (by \"outsiders\", by Israel, and by the Arabs\nthemselves) what is the #1 issue to the Arab side. Is it \"Palestinian\nstatehood\", is it that Israel as a state should not and must not be\nallowed to exist, is it that the existence of a self-governing non-\nmuslim \"state\" in the \"Islamic World\" is intolerable...what? Just as\nthe dividing line between Israel-fighting-for-security and Israel-fighting-\nto-expand is often hard to discern by \"outsiders\" (especially to the Arab \nworld), so the rationale behind the Arab-struggle-to-undermine-Israel-in-\nany-way could either be based on visceral rejectionism or a sense of being\nwronged that still values peace, who knows which. \n\nAnyway, in these talks, what \"gestures\" would you think would be seen\nby Israel as \"substantial\"?\n\n", "\n\n\nSince Facts and Myths doesn't even know where Deir Yassin was,\nwhy should we pay any attention to the rest of what it says?\n\n\nThis account from Eric Silver is the only valid point that M&F makes.\nYou can find it together with other evidence and analysis in \nSilver's biography of Begin. Also in Silver's book you will find\ndocumentary evidence that nearly everything else in M&F's account\nis pure bullshit.\n\n\nThis is pretty disgusting. The Guardian was told of one or two\nfeeble old men who dressed in women's clothing in a pathetic \nattempt to escape death. See Silver's book.", "\n(1)\n\n You know ed,... You're right! Andi shouldn't be comparing\n Israel to the Nazis. The Israelis are much worse than the\n Nazis ever were anyway. The Nazis did a lot of good for\n Germany, and they would have succeeded if it weren't for the\n damn Jews. The Holocaust never happened anyway. Ample\n evidence given by George Schafer at Harvard, Dept. of History,\n and even by Randolph Higgins at NYU, have shown that the\n Holocaust was just a semitic conspiracy created to obtain\n sympathy to piush for the creation of Israel.\n\n(2)\n\n Just kidding.\n\nBe careful rj3s. When people start finding humour in the Holocaust\nthey often run the danger of exposing themselves for the hateful\nrefuse that they really are.", "It seems that, to keep the peace talks going, Israel has to keep\nmaking goodwill gesture after goodwill gesture, while Palestinian\nArabs continue to go around hunting Jews.\n\nIf the peace talks are going to have any realistic chance of success,\nthe Arabs are going to have to start reciprocating, especially since\nthey are the ones who will be getting tangible concessions in return\nfor giving up only intangibles. If they keep trying to change the\nalready agreed upon rules, which seems to be one of their favorite\ngames, the Israelis are not likely to be very confident that the\nintangibles they will receive at the bargaining table will be worth\nthe parchment they're written on.\n\nIt takes two to negotiate a peace. It's time for the Arabs to start\ndoing their share.\n", "\nThere is no known writing directly attributable to Menachem Begin\nwhich admits a massacre at Deir Yassin. Thus, Hasan is wrong.\n\n\nThe word \"troops\" is unjustified. There has never been any evidence\nthat there were any regular or irregular Arab forces in the village\napart from the villagers defending themselves. According to the\nHaganah observer Pa'il, the Irgun/Lehi forces suffered a lot of\ncasualties because they were incompetent soldiers. When they ran\ninto trouble securing the central part of the village, a small group \nof Palmach soldiers came and took it without a single casualty.\nBegin's failure to even mention the Palmach is only one of the\nmajor inaccuracies (to use a kind word) in his account.\n\nIncidentally, \"three times as heavy\" may be correct, as there is\nserious evidence that the Arab loss was closer to 120 lives than\nto the oft-quoted 250 lives. However, note that Begin compares\nwounded Jews to dead Arabs. He fails to mention the number of\nwounded Arabs. Guess why.\n\n\nAs is thoroughly established by many sources, the loudspeaker truck\ngot stuck in a ditch too far from the village for it to provide a\nusueful warning.\n\n\nIt is worth noting how Begin disputes the standard myth that the\nPalestinian Arabs fled as part of a calculated plan.\n\n\nApparently 90% of Israeli historians are Jew-haters.\n\n\nI have previously posted quotations by Irgun participants that\ntotally destroys Begin's whitewash. I have no particular desire\nto post it yet again.", "\nIndeed Yaqouv, just like the ugly hatred spread by Kahane and\nKahanists, right? Or they are exempt from condemnation, and allowed\nto hate?\n\nI know you'll answer me indirectly, it doesn't bother me a bit.\nKeep it up.\n\nSteel (who's never pissed off).\n\n", "\n\n\tOk, I'll admit it. I can't find a quote with my meager online\nresources. but i did find this little gem:\n\n\t``When the Arabs set off their volcano, there will only be Arabs in\n\tthis part of the world. Our people will continue to fuel the torch\n\tof the revolution with rivers of blood until the whole of the\n\toccupied homeland is liberated...''\n\t--- Yasser Arafat, AP, 3/12/79\n\n\tSo, Ahmed is right. There was nothing about driving Jews into\nthe sea, just a bit of \"ethnic cleansing,\" and a river of blood.\n\n\tIs this an improvement?\n\nAdam\n\n\nAdam Shostack \t\t\t\t adam@das.harvard.edu", "\nUPI, and the newspapers who are reporting this being all owned by Saudis\nI wonder how secure they are feeling by reporting all of these things,\nmaybe Saudi Arabia is allowed to have all the human rights violations\nit can have, nobody is including them in any list,.. those are designed\nfor independent states.\n\n\nwhy is this reported from Cairo?\n\n.....\n\nCan somebody teach this man some logic?\nwhat is the relationship between a human rights league in Saudia\nand human rights in Bosnia, I guess if we wanted to know what is\nin Italy, we should know what is in Brasil (Syrian Joke)\n\n\ntheir claim of following Islamic law is the biggest disservice\nthat they ever did to Islam.\n\n...\n\nBut how about human rights in Egypt Mr Amin?", "\nHere you give positive, accurate \"facts\" about what happened to the beduins\nand the land:\n\n After the creation of the State of Israel, 80 percent of the Negev\n Bedouin were expelled to the Sinai or to Southern Jordan. The\n 10,000 who were allowed to remain were confined to a territory of\n 40,000 hectares in a region were annual mean precipiation was 150\n mm - a quantity low enough to ensure a crop failure two years out\n of three. The rare water wells in the south and central Negev,\n spring of life in the desert, were cemented to prevent Bedouin\n shepherds from roaming.\n\n A few Bedouin shepherds were allowed to stay in the central Negev.\n But after 1982, when the Sinai was returned to Egypt, these\n Bedouin were also eliminated. At the same time, strong pressure\n was applied on the Bedouin to abandon cultivation of their fields\n in order that the land could be transferred to the army.\n\nAnd now you say noone knows anything about what happened there:\n\n No reliable statistics exist concerning the amount of land held\n today by Negev Bedouin. It is a known fact that a large part of\n the 40,000 hectares they cultivated in the 1950s has been seized\n by the Israeli authorities. Indeed, most of the Bedouin are now\n confined to seven \"development towns\", or *sowetos*, established\n for them.\n\n (the rest of the article is available from Elias Davidsson, email:\n elias@ismennt.is)\n\nSo what you basically say is that \"we know for sure that nothing good happens\nthere now, we know for sure that the beduins prospered before the Jews arrived\nand that they were driven away by the Jews, noone on earth knows about\nwhat the Jews did there.\"\n\nIs that what you said? Could you proove any of the nonsense you wrote?\n\nBTW, try asking beduins in Sinai how they mis the Israelis. Not to mention\nthat there are enough valotaring beduins in the IDF to have at least one full\nbrigade of them.\n", "\n[HAMID] Anybody has any information about the number of the people have been \n[HAMID] killed by Israel during these 44 HAPPY YEAR?\n\nDoes anybody know how many Jews, Arabs, Christians and others have died \nin terrorist attacks and wars over these 45 years due to Arab rhetoric and \nrejectionism? The number is probably close to 100,000 at least.\n\nAll these lives wasted because the ARABS did not accept the PARTITION PLAN \nin 1947.\n\nTsiel", "\n\nWhat a dope! There is no value for Mohammed Elabdellaoui to be here\nat a Western University. Third-worldist and Islamic brain-rot has\nmade it impossible for him to acquire and analyze facts appropriately.\n\nThe history of the efforts of the Mufti of Jerusalem to serve the\nNazis in the South Balkans and set up Muslim SS Divisions is\nwell-documented. In general, Nazism and the leader-principle\nresonated well among Muslim peoples. Khomeini's concept of the faqih\nis a recent example of such resonance. In fact, totalitarianism is\netymologically a reasonable translation Islam.\n\nTo be fair, the Mufti did not succeed in getting large numbers of\nMuslims to join the SS. But the rather small Muslim SS unit did\nmanage to commit attrocities disproportionate to it size. There were\nalso Muslim people who were less than enthusiastic about the attempt\nof Muslim leaders to entice Muslim people to serve the Nazi cause\nactively. And the Turkish government ignored practically all Nazi\novertures even though an alliance with the Nazis against the Soviet\ngovernment would have made a great deal of tactical sense.\n\n\t\t\tLast time I heard, the nazis prided themselves in\n\nYes, the typical primitive Muslim psychopathological psychotic\nbehavior upon hearing or reading a disagreeable fact -- start whining\nabout the Jews. What a jerk.\n\n\nYou should go back to your mindlessly stupid 3rd world country. Your\nbrain has no business in a civilized first world country.", "From Israel Line, Thursday, April 22, 1993:\n \nToday's HA'ARETZ reports that three women were injured when a\nKatyusha rocket fell in the center of their community. The rocket\nwas one of several dozen fired at the communities of the Galilee in\nnorthern Israel yesterday by the terrorist Hizbullah organization [...] \n\n\n\nCongratulations to the brave men of the Lebanese resistance! With every\nIsraeli son that you place in the grave you are underlining the moral\nbankruptcy of Israel's occupation and drawing attention to the Israeli\ngovernment's policy of reckless disregard for civilian life.\n\n\n\tApparently, the Hizbollah were encouraged by Brad's cheers\n\t(good job, Brad). Someone forgot to tell them, though, that \n\tBrad asks them to place only Israeli _sons_ in the grave, \n\tnot daughters. Paraphrasing a bit, with every rocket that \n\tthe Hizbollah fires on the Galilee, they justify Israel's \n\tholding to the security zone. ", "\nTrue, but maybe not the worst possible - see Algeria. \n\n\nThis was true (and I may add the adjective \"stupid\") until the Intifada.\nSince then, no serious Israeli leader (including Shamir) really thinks\nthe the occupied territories worth the trouble. The only question became\nthe question of price and other quantitative detail. The best thing the \nPalestinians can do for themselves these days is to stop the Intifada\nand try to live as normally as possible (I know, it's hard under occupation).\nOtherwise people might think that five years of stone throwing (as justified\nas it may be) has caused the Palestinians an irreversible damage that \nprevents them from running a normal state when the time comes. Currently \nit serves no purpose and it's just a waste of human life and economic\nresources. ", "Heil Ajami!, or do you prefer\nHeil Martillo! or\nHeil Santos! or\nHeil Carlo! or\nHeil Joachim!<- This I would suggest against, it sounds too informal, mein\nfuhrer!", "\n\nThat doesn't answer my question: Can you give a proof that it is an official\npolicy of any Israeli government to kill \"neutral observers\" or UN personel\nor others like them?\n\nI wasn't sure that your original statement was wrong and was prepared to\nrecieve proofs that you are right (since I don't follow the events closely).\nYour last response made me pretty damn sure that at least YOU can't give such\na proof, and you made your original statement without much ground to put it\non.\n\n\nEven if it's true (and in this case I'd take it without asking you to prove it)\nit is still far from killing reporters. Also whenever that happened I'll bet\nit happened as individual actions by certain soldiers and not as a policy of\nthe government (e.g. see the Hawara case where a colonel was sentenced for\ngiving orders to kick Arabs, as far as I remember).\n\nBye,\n", "\nA number of points. You are making assumptions about the manner\nin which the cards are used. True, by law, all residents, citizens,\nand tourists must carry a form of identification with them. For\ncitizens, the standard ID is the ID card. The purpose this serves\non a daily basis, wherein they are presented at public places,\nis for the purpose of identifying the bearer. This takes place\nin banks (cashing checks), post offices (registered mail and such), etc...\nQuite frankly, it was rare that I ever had to present my ID card\nfor such activities more than once per week. There is no law or\nrequirement that forces people to wave their ID cards in public.\nFurthermore, none of the services I outlined discriminate against\nthe bearer in any manner by having access to this information.\n\nThe only case that I can think of in which the Le'um field might\nbe taken into account is during interaction with the police,\nbased upon the scenario. In general though, arab citizens are\nclearly recognizable, as are non-arabs. Your argument therefore\nbecomes moot unless you can provide an example of how this field\nis being used to discriminate against them officially.\n\n\n\nI take issue with your assertions. I think that Arab countries\ndo know that they have nothing to fear from \"Israeli expansionism\".\nMilitarily, Israel is not capable of holding onto large tracts of\nland under occupation to a hostile, armed, and insurgent population for a\nsustained period of time. As is, the intifada is heavily taxing\nthe Israeli economy. Proof of this can be seen in the Israeli\nwithdrawal from Lebanon. Israeli troops pulled back from the\nAwali, and later from the Litani, in order to control the minimal\nstrip needed to keep towns out of range of Katyusha missile fire.\nPublic opinion in Israel has turned towards settling the intifada\nvia territorial concessions. The Israel public is sufferring from\nbattle fatigue of sorts and the gov't is aware of it.\n\nWith regards to borders, let me state the following. I may not agree\nwith the manner in which negotiations are being held, however the crux\nof the matter is that everyone either makes or refrains from stating\na starting position. The arab parties have called for total withdrawal\nand a return to pre-48 borders. If Israel were to state large borders,\nthe negotiations might never get under way. If Israel were to state\nsmaller borders, then the arab countries might try and force even smaller\nborders during the negotiations. I think that leaving the matter to be\nsettled by negotiations and peace treaties is infinitely more realistic\nand sensible.\n\n\nYour statement is typical of the simple minded naivety of a \"center for\npolicy research\". Whether or not all of Vanunu's revelations were true has no\nbearing on the fact that some were. For disclosing \"state secrets\"\nafter having signed contracts and forms with the understanding that\nsaid secrets are not to be made public, one should be punished.\nAs to which were and which weren't, I am under no moral obligation\nto disclose that - quite the reverse in fact.\nHe was taken to court, tried, and found guilty. You may take issue\nwith a number of things but clearly you have no understanding of the\nconcept of \"Secrets of state\", something which every democratic govt\nhas.\n\n\nI noticed that he was documenting the fact that such prisoners could exist\nmore than he documented the fact that they do exist. The CLU noted,\nwhich you evidently did not pay attention to, that they know of no such\nreports or cases. I am sorry to tell you but in a country of 4 mill,\nas tightly knit as Israel, even if the matter of the arrest was not\nmade public, within a relatively short time frame, most people would know\nabout it. My own feelings are that the matter of the arrest should be\nmade public unless a court order is issued allowing a delay of X hours.\nThis would be granted only if a judge could be convinced that an\nannouncement would cause irreparable harm to the ongoing investigation.\n\n\nWell, I am sorry to say that your questions are slanted. Such\nquestions are often termed \"tabloid journalism\" and are not\ndisturbing because they avoid any attempt at objectivity.\nSuch questions were often used during the McCarthy era as\na basis for the witch-hunts that took place then. To use\nyour own example, these questions might have been lifted\nfrom the format used by Stalinist prosecutors that were looking\nfor small bits of evidence that they could distort and portray\nas a larger and dirtier picture.\n\nMy answers were not any more \"hysterical\" than the questions\nthemselves. The problem is not that the q's were provocative,\nit was that they were selective in their fact seeking. You\nfall into the same category of those who seek \"yes\" \"no\" answers\nwhen the real answer is \"of sorts\".\nI suspect that as long as the answers to these questions is not an\nunequivocal NO, you would remain unsatified and choose to interprete\nthem as you see fit. A sign of strength is the ability to look\nYou remind me of those mistaken environmentalists who once advocated\nculling wolves because of the cruelty to deer, only to find that they\nhad broken the food chain and wreaked havoc upon the very environment\nthey sought to protect. The color blindness you exhibit is a true\nsign of weakness.\n\n\nDitto.\n", "\n\nIn the South Lebanon area, only Israeli (and SLA) and Lebanese troops \nare present.\nSyrian troops are deployed north of the Awali river. Between the \nAwali river and the \"Security Zone\" only Lebanese troops are stationed.\n\n\nThat is your opinion and the opinion of the Israeli government.\nI agree peace guarantees would be better for all, but I am addressing\nthe problem as it stands now. Hopefully a comprehensive peace settlement\nwill be concluded soon, and will include security guarantees for\nboth sides. My proposal was aimed at decreasing the casualties\nin the interim period. In my opinion, if Israel withdraws\nunilaterally it would still be better off than staying.\nThe Israeli gov't obviously agrees with you and is not willing\nto do such a move. I hope to be be able to change your opinion\nand theirs, that's why I post to tpm.\n\n\nAs I explained, I contend that if Israel does withdraw unilaterally\nI believe no attacks would ensue against northern Israel. I also\nexplained why I believe that to be the case. My suggestion\nis aimed at reducing the level of tension and casualties on all sides.\nIt is unfortunate that Israel does not agree with my opinion.\n\n\n\n\nThat is too bad.\n \n\nBecause Israel is not occupying the \"Security Zone\" free of charge.\nIt is paying the price for that. Once Israel withdraws it may have\nlost a bargaining chip at the negociating table but it would save\nsome soldiers' lives, that is my contention.\n\n If Lebanon were willing to agree to\n\nThat is completely untrue. Hizbollah is now a minor force in Lebanese\npolitics. The real heavy weights are Syria's allies. The gov't is \nsupported by Syria. The Lebanese Army is over 30,000 troops and\nunified like never before. Hizbollah can have no moral justification\nin attacking Israel proper, especially after Israeli withdrawal.\nThat would draw the ire of the Lebanese the Syrian and the\nIsraeli gov'ts. If Israel does withdraw and such an act \n(Hizbolllah attacking Israel) would be akin to political and moral \nsuicide.\n\nBasil", "\n\nYou obviously haven't read his postings clearly.\n\n\nIsraelophiles? Is this anything like Israelists? You're treading on\nthin ice here.\n\n\nNow, you're falling through the ice. Barfie! We have a playmate for\nyou! \n\n\nThere is a difference between guerrilla warfare and terrorism.\nThe former primarily targets enemy soldiers. The latter primarily\ntargets civilians, and not necessarily enemy civilans, at that.\n\n\nInnocent British soldiers? Like innocent Iraqi soldiers?\nTHe British were EXECUTING Jewish fighters in what was soon to become\nthe recognized Jewish homeland. The British - to their eternal shame\nand damnation - were sending shiploads of Jewish refugees, civilians,\nback to Europe to be taken care of by Hitler.\n\nBy comparison, Palestinean \"fighters\" primarily target tourists,\nschoolchildren, babies, worshippers, shoppers, movie-goers and other\nsuch threatening people. Early Zionist fighters did no such things.\n\nYour comparison is ignorant and odious.\n\n\nDoes it bug you that the \"Israelites\" (they used to be\nIsraelophiles...) happen to be right?\n\n\nAre you kidding? Palestinean Arabs - who comprise a tiny proportion \nof the world's refugee population, who have almost no justifiable\nclaim to the territory that they desire, who have acted as criminals\nin the international community for decades - are being treated like\nthe most aggrieved and deserving minority in existence, even after\ntheir ignominious support for Saddam in Desert Storm. How many other\nworld \"leaders\" have addressed the UN with a machine-gun in hand,\nreceiving a standing ovation?\n\n\nYou are now parrotting some of the weakest arguments of the\nterrorists' apologists. Congratulations.\n\n\nGee, that's a nice name. Can I call you Pissed?\n", "\n\nWhy don't you pull your head out of your ass and into reality? First off, what\nis the deal with your subject lines? Do you think that you are being funny?\nHa ha. What a developed sense of humor you have, I'm surprised they let you \nout of the cage. Why don't we not talk about the \"official\" definition of\nforeign aid and talk about where money is really spent. More money is spent\nstationing troops in Germany (ie paying the troops, maintaining bases and equip,\netc) than in Israel. Plus, Israel does not ask the US to send troops to fight\nher battles. If you look at the amount of money spent defending Korean \nshipping lanes, Norway, and other trouble spots in the world, you will see that\naid to Israel - from a practical standpoint - is not that much. And so what -\nso what if Israel gets the most (assuming I buy your feeble argument)? What \nis your point? Do you not want to subsidize Israel? Well, you have two options\n1) Start your own campaign, get elected as president, and then force congress\nto cut all aid to Israel or 2) get the fuck out! If you don't like how this \ncountry operates and can't change it then move to Iran or something.", "\n\nHehehe.\n\nBTW, does the Litani River not flow West and not South? I think that its waters\nstay entirely within Lebanese territory and so what Hasan says about the Jordan\nRiver makes no sense, in any case. The Hasbani River, on the other hand, flows\ninto the Jordan, if I am not mistaken.", "From Israeline 4/16\n\nTwo Arabs Killed and Eight IDF Soldiers Wounded in West Bank Car\nBomb Explosion\n \nIsrael Defense Forces Radio, GALEI ZAHAL, reports today that a car\nbomb explosion in the West Bank today killed two Palestinians and\nwounded eight IDF soldiers. The blast is believed to be the work of\na suicide bomber. Radio reports said a car packed with butane gas\nexploded between two parked buses, one belonging to the IDF and the\nother civilian. Both busses went up in flames. The blast killed an\nArab man who worked at a nearby snack bar in the Mehola settlement.\nAn Israel Radio report stated that the other man who was killed may\nhave been the one who set off the bomb. According to officials at\nthe Haemek Hospital in Afula, the eight IDF soldiers injured in the\nblast suffered light to moderate injuries.\n\n\n\nThe Arab that was killed was a probably from the Mossad so it is not count \nas a murder.\n\n\nNaftaly\n\n\n-----\n", "Only Brendan McKay, or maybe ARF, would come to the rescue of Nazi\nracial theory. Is it distressing Brendan? The point is that any\neugenic solution to the Jewish Problem as Elias has proposed smacks\nof pure Nazism. The fact that Elias' proposal cast the entire \"problem\"\nas one of the abnormal presence of Israeli society in the Middle East,\nand that he buried a slam against U.S. aid to Israel in the midst of\nhis \"even-handed\" solution of the Jewish Question, made it obvious what \nhe had in mind: disolving the Jewish polity. That *is* a Nazi doctrine:\nrectification of the \"abnormal presence\" of the Jewish people within a \nlarger body politic. Whether your \"solution\" involves gas, monetary \nincentives to the poor Jews to marry out, or as Feisal Husseini has \nsaid, \"disolve the Zionist entity by forcing it to engage the normal \nsurrounding Arab culture,\" you are engaged in a Nazi project.\n\nJust as obvious is your statement: \"I will not comment on the value\nor lack of value of Elias's proposal.\" Still striking the glancing\nblow, right Brendan? You could easily see where he was going, but you\n\"will not comment.\" So, you are complicitous.\n\nWhat is your fascination with Nazi racial theory, anyway?\n\n-- Chris Metcalfe (\"someone else\")\n\n!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!\n", "\n\nThe Bible does tell us that governments are ordained by God (Romans 13).\n And furthermore, God foreknows everything that would happen. It is\njust to difficult for humans to graps with our limited minds, the\ninevitablity of the sucess of God's plan, and this is especially hard to\ngrasp when we see governemnts doing evil. However, though they are\ndoing evil (and we should not cooperate with them when they do such), it\nmust be understood that what happens is what God wanted so as to lead to\nthe final sucess of His plan to save as many souls from hell as is\npossible. In short, the slaughter in Bosnia, though deplorable in the\neyes of God (maybe, then again, they might be getting their just deserts\nnow rather than later; there are plenty of examples of God killing\npeople for their sins - Onan in the Old Testmament for example, and\nAnnias and Spahira in the New) is what he willed to happen so that His\nplan might be accomplished.\n But don't forget, it is not unbiblical for God to use one nation to\nexecute His just judgement upon another. The Romans were used to\nfulfill the chorus of \"Let his blood be upon our hands\" of the crowd in\nJersualem. And Chaldea was chastised by Babylon, which got Israel,\nwhich was inturn gotten by Persia, etc. God does use nations to punish\nother nations, as the Bible very clearly shows in the Old Testament. \nDon't you remember the words of God recorded in Daniel, \"Mene, mene,\ntekel, peres?\" Babylon had been weighed in the balance scales of God's\njustice, found severly wanting, and was thus given over to the Persians\nas their due punishment for their rebellion. Another exammple is the\nextirmination of the Cannanites, ordered by God as the task of Israel. \nThe Cannanites had been given their chance, found severly wanting, and\nthe Great Judge, carried out His just sentence accrodingly. I could go\non with more examples, but I see little need to do so, as my point is\nquite clear.\nTwo things need to be remembered at all times. 1) It is not up to us to\nquestion why God has ordered the world as He has. In His divine Wisdom,\nHe made the world as was best in His eyes, and like Paul says in Romans\n9, the clay is not one to tlak back to the potter. 2) The message of\nJesus Christ is as follows: \"Repent now, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at\nhand.\" Jesus Christ did not allow any time for dilly-dallying - \"Let\nthe dead bury the dead, come, follow me.\" There is not an infinite\namount of time, rather Christ is passing by right now, calling people to\nfollow Him and become fishers of men. He does not say, \"well, alright,\nyou can call me back in a week and see if my Kingdom fits in with your\nplans.\" He said \"Follow me.\" His message is NOT \"I'm just a sweety-pie\nwho would never hurt a fly, you've got all the time in the world, and\nDivine Judgement, that's only a fairy tale.\" \"Our great God and Savior\"\nJesus Christ (Titus 2.5) is also the just and righteous Judge of the\nworld. And it is not up to the defendants in the trial to be\nquestioning his entirely just sentences of either chastisement or mercy.", "\n\n\n\n\tNo one is forced to blow up airplanes. Terrorism is a choice\nmade by people because they do not want to work for peace.\n\n\n\tThere are *lots* of military targets in Israel. There are\nlots of legitamate targets in Israel. Old ladies, children, and\ncivilians in general are not acceptable targets.\n\n\tIf the only person you can kill is a civilian, you hold your\nfire. If that means you can't kill anyone, then you can't kill\nanyone. Claiming that civilain targets are acceptable because they\nare easy kills is rediculous.\n\n\n\tDid they make a policy of it?\n\n\n\tDid you mean excuse? :) Killing a soldier and killing a\ncivilian are two very different acts.\n\n\n\tNo, they killed soldiers so that the British government would\nleave. The objective was not to scare civilains, but show that the cost\nof staying was way too high. \n\n\tIn contrast, a terrorist kills civilains to scare other\ncivilains. They use random violence against people to make a point\nthat no one is safe until their demands are met. An analogy would be\nthe Irgun blowing up Harrods or 10 Downing.\n\n\n\tThats because you missed the essential point of arab\nterrorism, which is to scare civilains away from Israel, by killing\nthose who have something to do with Israel. It is to kill Jews\nbecause they might be Zionists. It is to kill people who live in\nIsrael because of where they live. The targets are rarely soldiers,\nor other people who understand they might be attacked in the line of\nduty, but innocent civilians, to underscore the message that no one\nwho deals with Israel is safe.\n\n\n\tOh, you mean you favor the Israelis, outnumbered 2 to 1,\noutgunned, surrounded by hostile states only one of which has signed a\npeace treaty in 45 years? You favor the Jews, people like Leon\nKlofhinger, a cripple who was thrown off a boat because he was Jewish?\nYou support the right of the Jewish people to live in peace?\n\n\tWhy, thank you for your support.\n\nAdam\n\nAdam Shostack \t\t\t\t adam@das.harvard.edu", "\nObviously, you really don't know.\n\nThey *have* spoken out (cf Sec'y of State Christopher's recent trip to the ME),\nthey have provided millions in aid, and they have participated in the airlifts\nto Sarajevo. They *would* supply military aid, if the UN would lift the embargo \non arms sales. \n\n\nSee above. (Kuwait has directly participated in the airlift of food to\nSarajevo.)\n\n\nHmm...some might say Kuwaitis are non-white. Ooops, I forgot, Kuwaitis are\n\"oil rich\", \"loaded with petro-dollars\", etc so they don't count.", "\nWhen the PLO moved into Lebanon and became, in parts of Lebanon, an\nOccupying Power itself, these same practices were common against\nnon-Palestinean and Palestinean alike. They are simply Standard\nOperating Procedures among Palestineans and have been for a very long\ntime. In fact, the greatest bloodbath of Palestineans will happen\nwhen they get self-rule. Can you possibly deny this? \n\nWhen the PLO is the Occupier, who are you NOW going to blame?\n\n", "\tI have to say I think this is the first time there has\nbeen something posted that opposed me without making personal\ninsults. Congradulations tim. I think the other people answered\nyou on most of the factual parts(esp. about the internal\nconflicts policy). \n\tIsrael very often gets away with more\nthan most other nations (Due to U.S. vetos). While I am not\nfamiliar with every instance I know that the reason Saudi\nArabia was not condemned for killig the pilgrims was that the\npilgrims were iranian. Yes, the UN is biased but mostly in\nfavor of the US and its allies (Including Israel, Saudi Arabia\nand Pakistan) and against \"Outlaw\" countries like iran and more\nrecently Iraq. Far be it from me to support the repressive\ngovernments there but I think they get more slack than Israel\nfor things they do \"wrong\". Again the reason some condemnations\ndon't occur lies in the race or country of the victims. The\ngassed Iraqi kurds got associated with Iran in the war and\nsince Iran was perceived as worse than Iraq no condemnation\nresulted. The palestinians killed by arab countries involved\nanother case of who cares. It seems that until very recently no\none cared about how many palestinians died anywhere (including\nin Israel and the occupied territories).\n\tAgain I appreciate the lack of personal insults.\n", "\nSteve,\n\nIf the Israelis are stupid enough to \"allow\" a second \"Palestinian\"\nstate (the first one is Jordon), then you will probably get your\nwish - and the Israelis would get what's coming to them.\n\nHowever, if the \"Palestinians\" were to somehow demonstrate that \nthey could govern themselves AND live in peace with their \nJewish neighbors, then they would have to give up the idea of\nJerusalem as a part of their state - and you would be disappointed.\n\n\n\nYashir Koach to this. ", "\nProbably not--he's just singing someone else's opera. He's good, too; perhaps he should get \"The Best Supporting Singer...\"\n\nI can give you a Q/A account that is well documented (just go back and reread some of the articles that appeared after this \"joke\"):\n\nQ: How many antisemites does it take to come up with another anti-Israeli\n provocation on the net?\n\nA: Just one. He'll fabricate a lie, and many more will applaud\n\nI would much prefer if Mr. Steel would refrain from this kind of jokes in the \nfuture. They're not just offensive. They also have a very negative effect on \nthe state of things between Jews and Arabs. So thanks for nothing, clown!", "In my postings I have made a proposal for comments and discussion.\nThose who don't want to discuss its merits and drawbacks are not forced to\ndo so.\n\nHowever I would make anybody who incites others to harm me or harass\nin a personal manner, legally responsible for their deeds. I cannot\naccept and will not accept threats to my personal integrity and I\nurge anybody who opposes terror to refrain from direct or indriect\nthreats.\n\nPS: My proposal has nothing to do with Nazi eugenics. It has to do with\nthe search for peace which would enable justice. I don't consider that\njustice is done, when non-Jews who fled or were expelled in 1948/1967\nare not permitted to return to their homeland. This can at best be called\npragmatism, a nice word for legitimizing the rule of the strong. It can\nnever be called justice. And peace without justice will never be peace.\nIt is my conviction that the situation in which a state, through the\nlaw, attempts to discourage mixed marriages (as Israel does), is not\nnormal. Such a state resembles more Nazi Germany and South Africa than\nWestern democracies, such as the United States, in which Jews are free to\nmarry whom they wish and do so in the thousands. My proposal may have\ndrawbacks but it is meant to force anybody to anything, just to\ncompensate for a certain time mixed couples for the hardships tehy\nendure in a society which disapproves of intermarriage.When the day\nwill come and Israel will become a truly civil and decmoractic society,\nin which the state is not concerned with the religious or ethnic\naffiliation of its constituency, such a Fund would not be needed any\nmore. I don't mind if Jews wish to marry Jews and keep their\ntraditions, why not ? But this is not the affairs of a state. Western\ndemocracy clearly separates these domains and I am certain that\nmost\nAmerican Jews enjoy this fact and would not love to live in a state termed\nChristian State and to have their Green cards stamped with a mark JEW.\n\nI would ask those who are genuinely interested in an exchange of views\nand personal experiencces to refrain from emotional, infantile\noutbursts which might leed readers to infer that Jews who respect\nJudaism are uncivilized. Such behaviour is not good for Judaism.", "\n\n\n\nAnd now he is posting lies about Benjamin Franklin in talk.politics.misc.\nSeems our Mr. Salah will stoop to any level (or is that *climb*) to\nspread his hate.\n", "\n\nThe wars of 1948, 1956, 1967, 1978 were definitely started by the Arabs.\nThe war in 1982 was instigated by the Arabs who continually murdered\nIsraeli children with their rocket attacks. Israel was only trying to\nstop this. \nLast what the heck are you talking about with \"1968 (Karama)\"? There was \nno war in 1968! \n\n Steve\n-- ", "\n\nI don't think any of the suspects were Americans. Consequently, they could\nnot be Arab-Americans. ", "sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes...\n\n\n\nKS, I see you're wanting Malcolm's response. Allow me one last inter-\njection then please:\n\nDistinguishing among the religious Jews, you've excepted the Messianic\nfor obvious reasons. Specifically, are you saying it's these religious \nJews, who trace their lineage back to Abraham by blood and orthodoxy, \nrather than by faith, who won't agree? Orthodox Jews? \n\nAs to the a/a (if I understand your direction), the issue remains \nunproven I suspect, considering how atheists and agnostics so often \nlook to reason. Atheist, it is reasonable to conclude will not agree.\nFor agnostics, a poll seems in order. Who knows? Myself, I'm not so \nsure the atheists can be counted out. \n\nFor the orthodox, I wonder how many would follow Moses, or Abraham,\nor David in accepting God's Word? Is the particular covenant to which\none adheres, more important than God promisimg? I reckon for many it\ndepends on the ongoing dialogue. Under these considerations, you might \nunderstand why I think it's premature to assert who will and won't agree.", "\nThe Swiss population is (and well was) far larger than that. I think\nyour question should be, \"...losing sleep over a million expert\nriflemen?\" Certainly he could have conquered Switzerland, but\na million armed militiamen (especially in a mountainous area, \nwhere tanks' effectiveness is limited) would have made it a\nreal pain. The question a conqueror would ask, is \"is it worth \nthe trouble?\" The more difficult an invasion is, the more likely\nthe answer would be \"no.\" Certainly a million riflemen (as\nopposed to a professional army of only ten or twenty thousand, the\nbest a country the size of Switzerland could support), makes\ninvasions more difficult.\n\n\nReally? In 1939? I'm not even sure you could prove that today (despite\nthe steriotype.) Certainly the Swiss bankers were not essential\nto the German war-time economy.", "\n\n \n \n\n\nYour statement is a common misconception, but it just isn't true. In the\nGerman Weimar system, the Chancellor was not necessarily the leader of the\nlargest Reichstag party; the Chancellor was appointed by the President and\ngenerally was the leader of a coalition of parties who could form an effective\nmajority in the Reichstag. Beyond that, the implication that Hitler rose to\nthe Chancellorship because a majority of Germans wanted Nazi rule is false\nas well. Before President Hindenburg appointed Hitler Chancellor in January\n1933, the German people did not show a particular desire to be led either by\nHitler or by the Nazi party. These are the results of the March 1932 election\nfor President, the closest Hitler ever came to direct election: Hindenburg\n49.6%, Hitler 30.1%, Thaelmann 13.2%, Duesterberg 6.8%. In the runoff election\nin April the results were: Hindenburg 53%, Hitler 36.8%, Thaelmann 10.2%.\nSo we can see that Hitler personally was supported by only about a third of\nGerman voters.\n\nSimilarly, the Nazi party never received more than 37% of the vote in\nReichstag elections. That occurred in July 1932. In the November 1932 election\nthe Nazis *lost* two million votes and 34 seats, down from 230 to 196 out of\nthe 608 in the Reichstag. Comparitively, the Socialists had 121 and the\nCommunists 100. The Communists had gained 11 seats, and the German National\nparty, which had supported the previous government, had picked up a million\nof the Nazis' lost votes to gain 15 seats (up to 52). I think the other large\nparty was the Catholic Center party (I don't know how many seats they had but\nI think they were declining), and there were numerous other small parties.\nThus the Nazi vote was on the decline at the time Hitler was appointed\nChancellor.\n\nWhat brought Hitler to power was *not* the demand of the German people for\nHitler or the Nazis to run things, but the inability of the other parties to\nput their differences behind them in favor of forming an effective government\nfor the country. Germany did not have an enduring democratic tradition, and\ntheir parliamentary system lacked effective center parties that favored the\ninterests of the majority of the population. Instead what they had was a\nnumber of small parties who were unable to put aside their own specific\nobjectives in order to combine against the Nazis, who were out to end the\ndemocratic process. In fact, part of the problem was that some of the other\nparties with substantial representation, like the Communists, were also\nout to end the democratic process, but with different results in mind, and\ngenerally didn't mind seeing parliamentary democracy go under.\n\nGermany had already had a non-Nazi Chancellor with a majority coalition\nfor five months while the Nazis had been the largest Reichstag party, and\nthere certainly was no danger of a revolution in favor of the Nazis.\nIf anything the Nazis were starting to get desperate because they had failed\nto get enough support to make Hitler President and their popular vote had\nbegun to decline.\n\nHitler was not Hindenburg's first choice to be Chancellor, not even his\nsecond choice. First, von Papen had been Chancellor since June 1932. After\nthe November election when the Nazis *lost* seats, Hindenburg first prevailed\non von Papen to remain as Chancellor. But there were intrigues behind his back\nand support for him was lacking. So then Hindenburg turned to von Schleicher,\nwho became Chancellor for two months. Eventually he too was unable to hold\ntogether a working coalition of parties to oppose the Nazis, who refused to\nparticipate in any government that was not led by a Nazi Chancellor. Some of\nthe Nazi leadership, particularly Gregor Strasser who was the #2 man in the\nparty at the time, wanted to participate in a coalition government. But others,\nknowing the party's support was waning, figured that their best hope to gain\npower lay in undermining the democratic process. Nevertheless, the country\nwas governed for seven months by Chancellors who were not Nazis, even though\nthe Nazis were the largest Reichstag party. The failure of these men to\nachieve a working coalition was due to the inability of their coalition\nparties to work together.\n\nHere's how William Shirer puts it in _The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich_:\n\n The cardinal error of the Germans who opposed Nazism was their\n failure to unite against it. At the crest of their popular strength,\n in July 1932, the National Socialists had attained but 37 percent of\n the vote. But the 63 percent of the German people who expressed their\n opposition to Hitler were much too divided and shortsighted to combine\n against a common danger which they must have known would overwhelm\n them unless they united, however temporarily, to stamp it out.\n\nTrue, the German people supported Hitler after he became Chancellor. But\nthat doesn't change the fact that there was not overwhelming support for him\n*before* he was in power. The German people were not crying out for Hitler to\ntake over, no matter how bad economic conditions were. The leftist parties\n(Socialists/Communists) probably had more support in total than the Nazis.\nHitler used the fact that others were passively or actively willing to see\nthe government paralyzed as a means to taking it over.\n", "\nHi Brad,\n\nI have two comments: Regarding your hope that the \"occupation will end... \nbelive that stiff resistance..etc. - how about an untried approach, i.e.,\npeace and cooperation. I can't help but wonder what would happen if all\nviolence against Israelis stopped. Hopefully, violence against Arabs\nwould stop at the same time. If a state of non-violence could be \nmaintained, perhaps a state of cooperation could be achieved, i.e.,\ngreater economic opportunities for both peoples living in the\n\"territories\". \n\nOf course, given the current leadership of Israel, your way may work\nalso - but if that leadership changes, e.g., to someone with Ariel\nSharon's mentality, then I would predict a considerable loss of life,\ni.e., no winners.\n\nSecondly, regarding your comment about the U.S. troops responding\nto \"stiff resistance\" - the analogy is not quite valid. The U.S.\ntroops could get out of the neighborhood altogether. The Israelis\ncould not.\n\nJust my $.02 worth, no offense intended.\n\nRespectfully, ", "\nSo what are you?\n\n\nI don't think that, you are just making noise.\n\n\nThat's true. I try to learn from people who know more than me,\nnot from useless farts.\n\n\nOf course, I have said that more times in this group than\nanyone else, I'd think.\n\n\nQuite true, that's why I am so careful in selecting quotes.\n\n\nOh bullshit. Fanatic my bum. Prove your blah or cork it.\n\n\nHow would you know what I consider? Read my mind?\n\n\nI looked very closely at a large number of sources. You have no\nidea what you are talking about.\n\n\nThat's true about the accounts of both Irgun and Arab propagandists.\nLike Begin, for example.\n\n\nNo, I never got that feeling. I got rather opposite feelings\nabout people like you, though.\n\n\nHonesty? Perhaps you would explain the testimony from members\nof the Irgun, to be found in their own handwriting in the\nIrgun Archives in Tel Aviv, that the wounded Arabs were killed,\nthat a group of 80 prisoners was massacred, that Lehi proposed\nexterminating everybody at the pre-raid meeting. Exactly what\nreasons can you propose that this testimony should be rejected\nin favour of Begin's?\n\n\nThis is very funny. You carried on about unsupported evidence,\npropagandists, axes to grind, and you end up telling us to stick\nto the account of the leader of the alleged killers. You are\nobviously a hopeless case, as everyone can plainly see.\n", "\n[Text Deleted]\n\n\n\nI have, my thesis was on Sun Tzu.\n\nMore to the point:\n\nThose who are called the good militarists of old, could make opponents\nlost contact between front and back lines, lose reliability between\nlarge and small groups, lose mutual concern for the welfare of the\ndifferent social classes among them, lose mutual accomodation between\nthe rulers and the ruled, lose enlistments among the soldiers, lose\ncoherence within the armies. They went into action when it was\nadvantageous, stopped when it was not.\n\nToday it is. Sitting on your hands will get you nowhere in this battle.\n\n\nuni@acs.bu.edu", "\n\nSealing off the Gaza Strip has the interesting side-effect of\ndemonstrating the non-viability of Gaza as an independent state.\nWhere are all of these people going to go to find work if they are\nseparated from Israel? If they complain about having to show id cards\non the way to work, how will they feel about showing passports on the\nway to work?\n", "\n\n\n\t100% Israeli citizens. The ethnic composition depends on what\nyou mean by formed. What the UN deeded to Israel? What it won in war?\n\n\n\n\tWere there anti-trust laws in place in mandatory Palestine?\nSince the answer is no, you're argument, while interestingly\nconstructed, is irrelevant. I will however, respond to a few points\nyou assert in the course of talking about anti-trust laws.\n\n\n\n\tAnd those fleeing Arab lands, where Jews were second class\ncitizens. \n\n\n\tJews often paid far more than fair market value for the land\nthey bought.\n\n\n\tYou know, Sam, when people start talking about an\nInternational Jewish conspiracy, its really begins to sound like\nanti-Semitic bull.\n\n\tThe reason there is no conspiracy here is quite simple.\nZionists made no bones about what was going on. There were\nconferences, publications, etc, all talking about creating a National\nhome for the Jews.\n\n\n\n[...]\n\n\tBecause you've never heard of it, its dead? The fact is, you\nclaimed Israel had to give arabs rights because of (non-existant)\nInternational aid. Then you see that that argument has a hole you\ncould drive a truck through, and again assert that Israel is only\ndemocratic within the (unexplained) constraints of one ethnic group.\nThe problem with that argument is that Arabs are allowed to vote for\nwhoever they please. So, please tell me, Sam, what constraints are\nthere on Israeli democracy that don't exist in other democratic\nstates?\n\n\tI've never heard anything about the Khazakistani arab\npopulation. Does that mean that they have no history or roots? When\nI was at Ben Gurion university in Israel, one of my neighbors was an\nIsraeli arab. He wasn't really all that different from my other\nneighbors. Does that make him dead or oppressed?\n\n\n\n\tHow recent is recent? I can probably build a case for a\nJewish Gaza city. It would be pretty silly, but I could do it. I'm\narguing not that Jerusalem is Jewish, but that land has no ethnicity.\n\nAdam\n\n\n\nAdam Shostack \t\t\t\t adam@das.harvard.edu", "Mack posted:\n\n\"I know nothing about statistics, but what significance does the\nrelatively small population growth rate have where the sampling period\nis so small (at the end of 1371)?\"\n\nThis is not small. A 2.7 per cent annual population growth rate implies\na doubling in 69/2.7 \\approx 25 years. Can you imagine that? Most people\nseem not able to, and that is why so many deny that this problem exists,\nfor me most especially in the industrialised countries (low growth rates,\nbut large environmental impact). Iran's high growth rate threatens things\nlike accelerated desertification due to intensive agriculture, deforestation,\nand water table drop. Similar to what is going on in California (this year's\nrain won't save you in Stanford!). This is probably more to blame than \nthe current government's incompetence for dropping living standards\nin Iran.", "\nIf that \"culture\" referred to is Israeli, being anti-zionist can be seen\nas a complete denial of that entity's right to exist and its \"legitimacy\". \nJust as saying that Islam has *no right* to establish and implement a \n\"state\" that includes any non-muslims, both are *absolute*, one-dimensional \nviews of that culture with regard to the issue of \"state\".\n\n\nIf that were the case, one would expect a few of that culture's positives\nto be discussed with regard to the issue at hand. Since the issue *centers*\non Israeli culture, I have yet to hear of *any* positives of that culture\nin this discussion.\n\n\nI agree with you. But I also feel that when a culture feels it is confronted \nby another group that wishes to see that culture \"disassembled\", the first\nculture has little choice but to *try* to secure its \"survival\" as well as\nmaintain its moral center. Since the culture is not about to turn away\nfrom *either* the matter of its survival or the valuing of its moral \nprinciples, it has the virtually impossible job of \"balancing\". \n\nTo discuss Israel's faults and \"crimes\" without *any* recognition of this\ncircumstance and *reality* it faces is a conscious decision based on the \ndiscussant's political biases, NOT on an honest and empathetically open \nunderstanding of the situation. The same applies to those who attempt to \npaint the Palestinian movement as \"all bad\" and dispense with considerations \nof the *reality* facing them.\n\nYou beg the question by centering on the symptoms while the issue\nof \"self-hating\" addresses the motivations. I certainly feel that\nanyone who expends so much effort inflating, distorting and robbing\nhuman context from aspects of his/her own culture is reflecting\na degree of dislike for it. Since bits of that culture are bound, \ndue to his/her upbringing, to be a part of him/her, a bit of self-\ndislike seems likely to be mixed in somewhere.\n\nAs you well know, this process of *blaming the other* for the morally\nquestionable actions one side is forced (by the \"other\", of course) to \ntake is thoroughly practiced by **both sides**. If you are only hearing\nthe pro-Israeli crowd's self-supporting arguments, that may be due to\nthe fact that you are not listening for anything else. *I* certainly\nhear the similarly distorting pro-Palestinian/pro-Arab element in\n*this* newsgroup (as well as in soc.culture.arabic).\n\n\nI agree, agree, agree, agree.\n\nHowever, in my response to the initial discussion above between Davidsson\nand those opposing his presentations, I saw Davidsson carefully putting \nacademic frills around a blatantly one-sided series of I-hate/dislike-\n\"them\", yesIdo,yesIdo,yesIdo. I did *not* find the approach of those \nopposing Davidsson to be centered *at all* on a denigration and denial\nof the \"other side\". \n\nI certainly do wonder if the degree to which Davidsson's views on the \nMiddle East have distorted is connected to his dislike and rejection\nof his jewish lineage. Having said this, however, I agree with you that \nthis constant accusing others of being \"self-hating\" jews seems\npointless. It is not worse a label than is \"why, you're on their side\",\nexcept to perhaps imply a certain degree of overly enthusiastic \nbiasedness.\n\nTim\n\n \n", ": >Prove it. I have a source that says that to date, the civilian death count\n: >(er, excuse me, I mean \"collateral damage\") is about 200,000.\n: \n: I have _never_ seen any source that was claiming such a figure. Please\n: post the source so its reliability can be judged. \n\nThis figure would not simply be deaths by bombing, but also death later\nfrom disease (the sewer system of Baghdad was deliberately targeted) and\nstarvation. I believe (but when I get a copy of the latest research in\nJune or July) that this was the figure proposed in the Census Bureau \nreport on the matter. The report was suppressed and the CB attempted to\nsack the author of the report, but failed due to procedural technicality.\nThe author is now on permanent leave. ", "\n+Last night, while watching the 2a.m. rebroadcast of Jerry Springer (a\n+talk show) I heard this Jewel of a thought from a 12 year old racist. \n+The focus of this show was on these kids and their hatred for the Jewish\n+religion, and why. \n\n[some stuff deleted]\n\n+Interesting (and scary) no? They went on to say how the Jews had \n+killed their god, and how in the end of time that all the races would\n+go to their homelands (of course, they would remain in America, which\n+is New Jeruselem, as it says in Gen 2??? (what another kid said) but\n+the rest of the races would go home) and then the great battle or plague\n+or whatever Revel. says would happen, and the jews would be killed.\n+\n+The most interesting thing about this was that my roomate is Catholic, \n+and had the KJV of the Bible on his desk. He immediatly opened it up\n+and began to search for the quoted passages (Gen, Rev, and John) to \n+look for himself, and couldn't find what they said they saw. I don't\n+know\n\nI saw this show a while back, and when I heard these kids\nquote the Bible to justify their racist claims, I looked up\nthat quote about Jesus hating Jews (since Jesus himself was a\nJew, my curiousity had been piqued by such a claim).\nThe jist of the passage (and I am sorry but I can't recall\nwhich passage it was exactly) was that Jesus was condemning\nthe Pharisees for being corrupt.\nOf course, the Pharisees were Jewish too, but it wasn't Jews\nas a whole that Jesus was condemning, just the powers that be.\n", "I have not seen but I guess would not liked it - to me he \nrepresents the worst of both American and Israeli politics\n- but this is a matter of taste.\n\nAs for the famous confession, it is currently believed (at\nleast by some people) that all this adultry affair was just\ninvented by him in order to impress the Likkud voters (and poor\njealous Hamazah) and appear as a \"real\" man. \n\n\n", "Was the article about zionism? or about something else. The majority\nof people I heard emitting this ignorant statement, do not really\nknow what zionism is. They have just associated it with what they think\nthey know about the political situation in the middle east. \n\nSo Steve: Lets here, what IS zionism?", "[It looks like Yigal has been busy...]\n\nRTw 04/14 2155 JEWISH GROUP SUED FOR PASSING OFFICIAL INFORMATION\n\n By Adrian Croft\n SAN FRANCISCO, April 14, Reuter - Nineteen people, including the son of\nformer Israeli Defence Minister Moshe Arens, sued the Anti-Defamation League\n(ADL) on Wednesday, accusing the Jewish group of disclosing confidential\nofficial information about them.\n Richard Hirschhaut, director of the San Francisco branch of the ADL, art\ndealer Roy Bullock and former policeman Tom Gerard were also named as defendants\nin the suit, filed in San Francisco County Superior Court.\n The 19 accuse the ADL of B'nai B'rith, a group dedicated to fighting\nanti-Semitism, and the other defendants of secretly gathering information on\nthem, including data from state and federal agencies.\n The suit alleges they disclosed the information to others, including the\ngovernments of Israel and South Africa, in what it alleges was a \"a massive\nspying operation.\"\n The action is a class-action suit. It was filed on behalf of about 12,000\nanti-apartheid activists or opponents of Israeli policies about whom the\nplaintiffs believe the ADL, Bullock and Gerard gathered information.\n Representatives of the ADL in San Francisco were not immediately available\nfor comment on Wednesday.\n The civil suit is the first legal action arising out of allegations that\nGerard, a former inspector in the San Francisco police intelligence unit, passed\nconfidential police files on California political activists to a spy ring.\n The FBI and San Francisco police are investigating the ADL, Bullock and\nGerard over the affair and last week searched the ADL's offices in San Francisco\nand Los Angeles.\n The suit alleges invasion of privacy under the Civil Code of California,\nwhich prohibits the publication of information obtained from official sources.\nIt seeks exemplary damages of at least $2,500 per person as well as other\nunspecified damages.\n Lawyer Pete McCloskey, a former Congresmen who is representing the\nplaintiffs, said the 19 plaintiffs included Arab-Americans and Jews -- and his\nwife Helen, who also had information gathered about her.\n One of the plaintiffs is Yigal Arens, a research scientist at the\nUniversity of Southern California who is a son of the former Israeli Defence\nMinister.\n Arens told the San Francisco Examiner he had seen a file the ADL kept on\nhim in the 1980s, presumably because of his criticism of the treatment of\nPalestinians and his position on the Israeli-occupied territories.\n According to court documents released last week, Bullock and Gerard both\nkept information on thousands of California political activists.\n In the documents, a police investigator said he believed the ADL paid\nBullock for many years to provide information and that both the league and\nBullock received confidential information from the authorities.\n No criminal charges have yet been filed in the case. The ADL, Bullock and\nGerard have all denied any wrongdoing.\n REUTER AC KG CM\n\n\n\nAPn 04/14 2202 ADL Lawsuit\n\nCopyright, 1993. The Associated Press. All rights reserved.\n\nBy CATALINA ORTIZ\n Associated Press Writer\n SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- Arab-Americans and critics of Israel sued the\nAnti-Defamation League on Wednesday, saying it invaded their privacy by\nillegally gathering information about them through a nationwide spy network.\n The ADL, a national group dedicated to fighting anti-Semitism, intended to\nuse the data to discredit them because of their political views, according to\nthe class-action lawsuit filed in San Francisco Superior Court.\n \"None of us has been guilty of racism or Nazism or anti-Semitism or hate\ncrimes, or any of the other `isms' that the ADL claims to protect against. None\nof us is violent or criminal in any way,\" said Carol El-Shaieb, an education\nconsultant who develops programs on Arab culture.\n The 19 plaintiffs include Yigal Arens, son of former Israel Defense Minister\nMoshe Arens. The younger Arens, a research scientist at the University of\nSouthern California, said the ADL kept a file on him in the 1980s presumably\nbecause he has criticized Israel's treatment of Palestinians.\n \"The ADL believes that anyone who is an Arab American ... or speaks\npolitically against Israel is at least a closet anti-Semite,\" Arens said.\n The ADL has denied any wrongdoing, but couldn't comment on the lawsuit\nbecause it hasn't reviewed it, said a spokesman at the ADL's New York\nheadquarters.\n The FBI and local police and prosecutors are investigating allegations that\nthe ADL spied on thousands of individuals and hundreds of groups, including\nwhite supremacist and anti-Semitic organizations, Arab-Americans, Greenpeace,\nthe National Association for the Advancement of Colored People and San Francisco\npublic television station KQED.\n Some information allegedly came from confidential police and government\nrecords, according to court documents filed in the probe and the civil lawsuit.\nNo charges have been filed in the criminal investigation.\n The lawsuit accuses the ADL of violating California's privacy law, which\nforbids the intentional disclosure of personal information \"not otherwise\npublic\" from state or federal records.\n The lawsuit claims the ADL disclosed the information to \"persons and\nentities\" who had no compelling need to receive it. It didn't elaborate.\n Defendants include Richard Hirschhaut, director of the ADL's office in San\nFrancisco. He did not immediately return a phone call seeking comment.\n Other defendants are San Francisco art dealer Roy Bullock, an alleged ADL\ninformant over the past four decades, and former police officer Tom Gerard.\nGerard allegedly tapped into law enforcement and government computers and passed\ninformation on to Bullock.\n Gerard, who has retired from the police force, has moved to the Philippines.\nBullock's lawyer, Richard Breakstone, said he could not comment on the lawsuit\nbecause he had not yet studied it.\n\n\n\n\n\nUPwe 04/14 1956 ADL sued for allegedly spying on U.S. residents", "\n\n\tOk, you don't like what I have to say. Would you care to\ndemonstrate how the above list, or any expanded version of it you\nchose to post, demonstrates fairness in the actions of the UN wrt\nIsrael?\n\n\n\tYou make the odd assumption that I read Israeli papers, not\nEuropean ones. My main source of news is the Economist, a London\nbased magazine.\n\n\tAlso, I do on rare occaisons, read Arab papers, but its hard\nto find English language papers from Arab countries here.\n\n\n\tHave I ever claimed to be objective? I pointed out, with a 27\nitem list, that Israel is condemned for actions that other nations are\nnot condemned for. You go off and attack me for reading only Israeli\nnewspapers.\n\n\tIf you'd like to debate this, please do. If you'd like to\nmake ad hominum attacks, feel free to do that too. But try not to\nmask one as another.\n\nAdam\n\nAdam Shostack \t\t\t\t adam@das.harvard.edu", "I would like to share with netters a few points I picked up from the PBS\n Frontline program regarding Iran's nuclear activities, aired on Tuesday\n April 13. For the sake of brevity, I'll present them in some separate\n points.\n\n 1- As many other western programs, this program was laid on a bed of\n misinformation throughout the program, to maximize the effect of the\n program on the viewer. Some of the misinformations were as follows:\n\n - It was alleged that:\" Late Imam Khomeini objected to Shah's technological\n advancements as anti-Islamic, but now things have changed and the proof of\n change is that some Iranian merchants are now selling personal computers. \"!\n These are the most ridiculous lies, one can make about the objectives \n of the Islamic Revolution in toppling the Shah and state of the technology\n in Iran after revolution.\n\n -Iran was equally accused of using chemical weapons against Iraqi aggressors\n while there has never been any proof in this regard, and nobody has seen\n Iraqi soldiers or civilians injured by Iranian chemical weapons, in\n contrary to what the whole world has seen about Iranian soldiers and\n civilians, injured by Iraqi chemical weapons.\n\n - While the number of martyrs during the sacred defense against Iraqi\n aggression has been officially announced to be about 117,000 and even most\n radical counter-revolutionary groups claim that Iran and Iraq had a total\n of one million dead, this program claims that Iran alone has one million\n dead left from the war.\n\n - The translation of Iranian officials' talks are not 100% true. For\n example when Iranian head of Atomic Energy says that: \" It hurts me to\n see that Iran is the subject of these unfriendly propaganda.\" The \n research.\"!\n\n 2- Almost all alleged devices or material bought or planned to be bought\n by Iranians were of countless dual usage, while the program tries to \n undermine their non-military uses, without any reference to Iran's\n big population and its inevitable need to other sources of energy in\n near future and its current deficit in electrical power.\n\n 3- The whole program is trying to show the Sharif University of \n Technology as a nuclear research center, while even the cameramen of the\n program know well that in a country like Iran without a so tightly closed\n society no one can make a nuclear bomb in a university! Taking in account\n the scientific advancement of Sharif U. in engineering fields and its\n potential role in improvement of Iran's industries and eventually the\n lives of people, it is obvious that they are persuading other countries\n to prevent them from further helping this university or other ones\n in scientific and industrial efforts.\n\n 4- A key point in program's justifications is trying to disvalidate as\n much as possible all efforts done by IAEA [*] in their numerous visits from\n Iran's different sites. They say: \"We are not sure if the places visited\n by IAEA are the real ones or not\" !, or \" We can not rely on IAEA's\n reports and observation, because they failed to see Iraq's nuclear\n activities before\" as if they didn't know that Iraq was trying to build\n nuclear weapons!\n\n 5- As an extremely personal opinion, the most disgusting aspect of the\n program was the arrogance of the member of US Senate foreign Affairs,\n William Triplet, in his way of talking, as if he was the god talking\n from the absolute knowledge!\n\n I hope all Iranians be aware of the gradual buildup against their\n country in western media, and I hope Iranian authorities continue to\n their wise and calculated approach with regard to international affairs\n and peaceful coexistence with friendly nations.\n\n\nMohammad\n", "excuse me for my ignorance. But I remember reading once that the \nBiblical tribe known as the Philistines still exists...they are the modern \nday Palestinians.\nAnyone out there with more info, please post it!!!", "\nProven? Maybe not. But it can certainly be verified beyond a reasonable doubt. This\nstatement and statements like it are a matter of public record. Before the Six Day War (1967)\nI think Nasser and some other Arab leaders were broadcasting these statements on\nArab radio. You might want to check out some old newspapers Ahmed.\n\n\n\nI think if you take a look at the Hamas covenant (written in 1988) you might get a \ndifferent impression. I have the convenant in the original arabic with a translation\nthat I've verified with Arabic speakers. The document is rife with calls to kill jews\nand spread Islam and so forth.", "\n\nThe borders of the Jewish state as drawn by the U.N. included the areas which\ncontained mostly Jews, that's what the surveys and the numerous commitees\nwhere after when they visited here.\n\n\nI never touched an Arab during my army service and never voted for anyone more\nright than the Green party. Will I be spared by these \"humanist standards\"?\n(or will anyone stop to consider this before sloughtering me?)\n\nI doubt it. And not only because of the past record of murdering helpless\nwomen and children since the turn of the century up to these days.\n", "Does anyone really believe the Swiss have had no war within their borders\nbecause every adult male owns a rifle? I'm a great admirer of the Swiss, but\n500 years of peace on their turf has zilch to do with gun ownership. Can you\npicture Hitler, with Panzers and Focke-Wulfs poised on the border, losing\nsleep over a few thousand expert rifleman? Sure. \nHitler stayed out of Switzerland because the Swiss run the money in this\nworld. We'd do well to emulate them on that and forget about getting more\nrifles on the street. Let's disband the NRA and start a National Investment\nBanking Association, replete with red and black sticker for the back window\nof Bubba's Mercedes 600! We could fire Charlton Heston and get Paul Volcker\nfor a spokesman.\n", "It seems that Egypt is only interested in fighting wars against its own\npeople, while objecting to any steps for Bosnia.. I am not surprised,\nWHo said that Mubarak represents Egypt (Hell he does not even represent\nall the criminals of Egypt)\n\n\n....\n\nThanks Saudia for the pocket change.\nCompare that to the \"Liberation of Q8\" and to what they gave to some\nweird causes.. O.K at least they are paying.\n\n\nMr. Amr Moussa was not worried about International law when he tortured\nto death many of his citizens and when he shot people praying in a Mosque,\nor when he is causing trouble to his neighbor just becasue the CIA says so.\nWhy doesn't he just shut up, he won't be involved in any Bosnian effort\nanyway, or does the west have to be represented even in an Islamic conference?\n\nThe more I hear about the Egyptian regime, the more I understand the\nexistence of the \"Jamaa Islamiyah\" there. After all most of its members\nand leaders are former and current victims of government torture, injustice,\nor relatives of victims. In some other places they get psychiatric care AND\nrevenge in the COURTS. But all they got is more of the same resulting in a \ncycle of madness that is initiated by the government with the illicit support \nof the west who is more concerned about the safety of half naked tourists in\nconservative neighborhoods than the dignity, social justice, and safety of the\nmajority of the poor oppressed people of Egypt. Enough said.", "\nNot just because of the riflemen. They also have many hard bunkers in\nthe mountains that would be nearly impossible to penetrate. As for\ntanks, they would be rather useless in such mountainous terrain. \n\n\nGee, that's a new one. He thought it was a different ethnic group. \nSince Hitler was determined to control, at the least, all of Europe,\ndo you think he gave a damn about international monetary concerns? \nAlso, there's a LOT of gold in Swiss vaults. Don't you think he new\nthat? If he could have, he would have taken Switzerland. However,\ncrazy as he was, he wasn't totally stupid. It would have cost him a\nhell of a lot to take Switzerland, with no guarantee that an invasion\nwould be successful. He probably figured (or his generals did, when\nhe was listening to them) that it wasn't worth the cost.", "\n\n(just an interrupting comment here) Since EARLY 1980's , israelis said they are \nwilling to give up the Adminstration rule of the occupied terretories to\nPalestineans. Palestineans refused and will refuse such settlement that denies\nthem their right of SELF-DETERMINATION. period.\n\n\nOk. I donot know why there are israeli voices against negotiations. However,\ni would guess that is because they refuse giving back a land for those who\nhave the right for it.\n\nAs for the Arabian and Palestinean voices that are against the\ncurrent negotiations and the so-called peace process, they\nare not against peace per se, but rather for their well-founded predictions\nthat Israel would NOT give an inch of the West bank (and most probably the same\nfor Golan Heights) back to the Arabs. An 18 months of \"negotiations\" in Madrid,\nand Washington proved these predictions. Now many will jump on me saying why\nare you blaming israelis for no-result negotiations.\nI would say why would the Arabs stall the negotiations, what do they have to\nloose ?\n\nArabs feel that the current \"negotiations\" is ONLY for legitimizing the current\nstatus-quo and for opening the doors of the Arab markets for israeli trade and\n\"oranges\". That is simply unacceptable and would be revoked. \n\nJust an opinion.", "\n\n\n\n\n\tAnd Lebanon has a right to make this decision without Syrian\ntroops controlling the country. Until Syria leaves, and free\nelections take place, its is rediculous to claim that the Lebanese\nwould even be involved in determining what happens to their country.\n\n\n\tI expect you will agree that the same holds true for Syria\nhaving no right to be in Lebanon?\n\n\n\n\tThe UN also thought Zionism is racism. That fails to make it true.\n\n\n\tThey lasted weeks against tanks in '48, and stopped those\ntanks from advancing. They also lasted days in '73. There is little\nevidence for the claim that they are military liabilities.\n\n\tThey evidence is there to show that when infiltrations take\nplace over the Jordan river, the existance of large, patrolled\nkibutzim forces terrorists into a very small area, where they are\nusually picked up in the morning.\n\n\n\n\tNonsense. Israel has been trying to get its neighbors to the\nnegotiating table for 40 years. It was the gulf war that brought the\narabs to the table, not the Israelis.\n\n\n\n\tNonsense. According to Arafat, Israel must be destroyed. He\nhas never come clean and denied that this is his plan. He always\nwaffles on what he means.\n\n\t``When the Arabs set off their volcano, there will only be Arabs in\n\tthis part of the world. Our people will continue to fuel the torch\n\tof the revolution with rivers of blood until the whole of the\n\toccupied homeland is liberated...''\n\t--- Yasser Arafat, AP, 3/12/79\n\n\n\n\nAdam Shostack \t\t\t\t adam@das.harvard.edu", "\n\n\n\nPlease, read my post carefully, I am saying that lift the arms emargo\nand let the MUSLIMS defend themselves. The point is these Europians \n\"civilized countries\" neither want to get intervene militarily themselves\nand nor they like to see the muslims of the world to help the oppressed.\n(Remember what happened almost one year ago when the so called UN discovered\nsome riffles in an Iranian jet in Bosnia!). The west is not indifferent\nin this matter they are siding with Serbs by keeping this embargo on only\nmuslim side (okay on-paper on both sides). \n\n-Khalid\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n", " >\n > Besides, there's no case that can be made for US military involvement\n > there that doesn't apply equally well to, say, Liberia, Angola, or\n > (it appears with the Khmer Rouge's new campaign) Cambodia. Non-whites\n > don't count?\n\n Hmm...some might say Kuwaitis are non-white. Ooops, I forgot, Kuwaitis are\n \"oil rich\", \"loaded with petro-dollars\", etc so they don't count.\n\n...and let's not forget Somalia, which is about as far from white as it\ngets.", "G-d has nothing to do with it. Some of the land was in fact given to the \nJews by the United Nations, quite a bit of it was purchased from Arab \nabsentee landlords. Present claims are based on prior ownership (purchase \nfrom aforementioned absentee landlords) award by the United Nations in the \npartition of the Palestine mandate territory, and as the result of \ndefensive wars fought against the Egyptians, Syrians, Jordanians, et al.\n\n***\nFirst, I should point out that many Jews do not in fact agree with the \nidea that the West Bank is theirs. Since, however, I agree with those who \nclaim the West Bank, I think I can answer your question thusly: the West \nbank was what is called the spoils of war. Hussein ordered the Arab Legion \nto attack Israel, which was a poor move, seeing as how the Israelis \npromptly kicked his butt. The territory is therefore forefeit. Retaining \npossession of ALL of the West bank is not desirable, but it beats \nnational suicide for the Israelis. Put another way, one could ask why it \nis that so many Palestinians seem to think that Tel-Aviv belongs to them \nand the future state of Palestine. As long as this state of affairs \ncontinues, it seems that to give the Palestinians a place from which they \ncan launch attacks on Jews is a real poor idea. Giving up the entire West \nBank would be idiotic froma security standpoint. In addition, there is \nthe small matter of Jerusalem, which is considered to be part of the West \nBank. The chances of the Israelis giving up Jerusalem are nil. Even \nleftists who think Yasser is a really cool dude, like Yossi Sarid, aren't \ngoing to propose giving up Jerusalem. If he did, he'd get run out of town \non a rail.\n", "\nWhile that is currently true from their perspective, it is also\nworthwhile to note that in such cases the populace often does suffer\nfrom attempts to control the guerillas. Furthermore, there were\ncases in the past of Palestinian gun emplacements being situated\nwithin villages. The argument that can be made for small arms\nfire can not be made for field pieces.\n\n\nAs I recall, Amal was primarily nationalistically \"Lebanon for\nthe Lebanese\" motivated. I think that the difference between them\nwas also a matter of funding and support. One question does\ncome to mind however, \n\nGiven that you claim the Hizbollah to be more committed etc... and\nthat their stated position is:\n\t1. No peace talks.\n\t2. No peace talks.\n\t.\n\t.\n\t.\n\t.\n\tN-1. No peace talks.\n\tN. No Israel\n\nif we assume that Lebanon and Syria are sincere in their desire for\npeace, why hasn't the Hizbollah been disarmed?\n\n\nBearing in mind the above and that military losses are more palatable\nthan civilian ones, I am sure you can understand why Israel is slow\nto act in that manner.\n\n\nI agree that Syria wants Lebanon to be part of its greater Syria.\nI don't necessarily see that the Syrians would be unhappy to see\nIsrael up to its neck in another Lebanese morass afterwhich Syria\ncould continue on its merry schedule when Israeli public opinion\nwould lead to a second pullout.\n\n\n<*sigh*>\n\nWhy can't some gov'ts negotiate as easily as some people?\n", "\n Lebanese resistance forces detonated a bomb under an Israeli occupation\n patrol in Lebanese territory two days ago. Three soldiers were killed and\n two wounded. In \"retaliation\", Israeli and Israeli-backed forces wounded\n 8 civilians by bombarding several Lebanese villages. Ironically, the Israeli\n government justifies its occupation in Lebanon by claiming that it is \n necessary to prevent such bombardments of Israeli villages!!\n\n Congratulations to the brave men of the Lebanese resistance! With every\n Israeli son that you place in the grave you are underlining the moral\n bankruptcy of Israel's occupation and drawing attention to the Israeli\n government's policy of reckless disregard for civilian life.\n\n Brad Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU)\n\nVery nice. Three people are murdered, and Bradly is overjoyed. When I\nhear about deaths in the middle east, be it Jewish or Arab deaths, I\nfeel sadness, and only hope that soon this all stops. Apparently, my\nview point is not acceptable to people like you Bradly.\n\nHernlem, you disgust me.", "Okay, I'll bite. I should probably leave this alone, but what the heck...\n\n\nBut didn't he credit the actual flag design to a party member - some dentist or\nother? I believe he gives such credit in Mein Kampf.\n\n\nWell, I'm no expert, but all of the histories of Nazi Germany assert this. They\nmake reference to several scandals that occurred long before \"the night of the\nlong knives\". The impression that I got was that homosexuality in portions of\nthe SA was common knowledge. Also, a book (by a homosexual author whose name\nescapes me at the moment) called \"Homosexuals in History\" asserts that Roehm\nand Heines were homosexuals, as well as others in Roehm's SA circle.\n\n\nWell, you're the one who is in Germany. If you don't believe the history books,\nlook up the primary sources yourself. Those of us outside of Germany do not\nhave access to these. You do. It seems to me that there were plenty of\ndocumented instances - several scandals, the fact that on the \"knight of the\nlong knives\" several SA members (including Heines) were found sleeping\ntogether, etc. Also I believe some people were complaining about the SA's\nhomosexual activities (seducing young boys, etc). The histories that I've \nread make a very convincing case. None of this sounds like urban legend to me. \n\n\nI know next to nothing about Irving and nothing about Funk. What precisely do\nyou know, that would contradict all of the other history books that I have\nread concerning the existence of homosexual Nazis? Are you trying to say that \nall historians are taking part in an anti-homosexual smear? What about \nhomosexual writers who agree with the official history? Don't you think they \nwould have found out the truth by now if Roehm and Heines were not homosexuals?\nI would think they would want to disassociate homosexuality from Nazism. No one \nshould use any connection between the two to bash homosexuals in any case. \n\n\nIf you are going to challenge *all* historians on this point (not just Irving),\nthen the burden of proof is on you. Track down the references. Find out where\nthe stories originate from. Again, you are the one in Germany, close to\narchival material - most people on the net are not.\n\n\nEh? What is your agenda here? To prove that the Nazis were heterosexuals, so\nthat you can bash heterosexuals? Does it bother you that some of the Nazis\nmight have been homosexuals? Does this make all homosexuals bad if this is\ntrue? Of course not. And what about bisexuals? Are they half-Nazis?\n\nI don't know why it would be so difficult to believe that some Nazis were\nhomosexuals. The German officer corps before WW1, for instance, was notorious\nfor its homosexuality. There were numerous scandals which rocked the German\ngovt. during the late 19th and early 20th century. Many of the Kaiser's friends\nwere prosecuted - the Kaiser was no homosexual, but the Germany army had a long\ntradition of tolerating homosexuality, going far back into Prussian history -\nback to Frederick the Great at least, who was himself a homosexual. Roehm was a \nproduct of this Prussian officer tradition, and the old German army (like the\nEnglish public school system), being a well known center of homosexuality,\nwould have been quite willing to overlook Roehm's homosexuality.\n\nIn addition, some Nazis complained of homosexuality in the Hitler Youth. The\nHitler Youth swallowed up all pre-Nazi youth groups, and some of the various \npre-war Vandervogel, Bund, and Volkish youth groups were known to promote \nhomoerotic ideals and friendship, and in many cases, homosexuality itself. So \nit seems to me not unlikely that there were plenty of homosexual Nazis, \nregardless of the official Nazi dogmas concerning the \"evils\" of homosexuality.\nWhy should this suprise anyone? Homosexuality has always existed, in all \nsocieties - it would be most unusual if the Nazis were an exception.\n\nNo, I don't have any sources for you, as I think the only kind of proof you\nwill accept would be citations from archival material, and I do not have access \nto these. Nor do I intend to reread every book on the Nazis and on modern\nhomosexuality that I have ever read - I don't have the time. Nothing is\nstopping you, however, from chasing down those sources. Until you prove\notherwise, though, I will stick with the established histories.", "\n\nI believe that CPR is himself such a \"house Jew\".\n", "Why do you insist on reposting the entire original post?\nDon't waste bandwidth, please. You know how picky us non-\nJews can be. Ha Ha. :|\n\n", "# \n# Q: When an Israeli pilot is bombing school children in Lebanon gets\n# shot down, and crashes head-first, what's the last thing that \n# goes into his mind (head)?\n# \n# A: His butt hole. \n\n Now this HAS to count as one of the most original and constructive\n contributions yet on tpm. All in all, well worth the $$$$ it took\n to send it to thousands of computers all over the world.", "\nI took your advice and ordered a copy of the Washinton Report. I\nheartily recommend it to all pro-Israel types for the following \nreasons:\n\n1. It is an excellent absorber of excrement. I use it to line\n the bottom of my parakeet's cage. A negative side effect is\n that my bird now has a somewhat warped view of the mideast.\n\n2. It makes a great April Fool's joke, i.e., give it to someone\n who knows nothing about the middle east and then say \"April\n Fools\".\n\nAnyway, I plan to call them up every month just to keep getting\nthose free sample magazines (you know how cheap we Jews are).\n\nBTW, when you call them, tell 'em barf sent you.\n\nJust Kidding,", "\nDid you check with the Afghans before posting this? They\nmight disagree.", "\n Another right-wing WASP imagining he's an oppressed minority. \nPerhaps Camille Paglia is right after all.\n\n\"I would not have any argument or problem with a peace-nik if they [...]\nstayed out of all conflicts or issues\"? I bet you wouldn't. You'd love it. \n\nBut what makes you think that sitting back, saying nothing about defense\nissues, and letting people like you make all the decisions is anything to do\nwith \"their ideals\"?\n", "\n\n\nActually I am not sure you have understood what I have said. On several\noccasions a minor party has put up an Arab for a Cabinet position. That\nis the major party (Labour in this case) has agreed that a minor party\ncan have so many seats and that party nominates an Arab for one. This is\nnot acceptable to the major party which insists on the minor party\nappointing a Jew. The favours owed, deals done, have all been settled.\nWhat remains is exactly who is going to sit in Cabinet. The party that\ngets the seat wants an Arab but that is not acceptable. This *is* racism.\nIt has nothing to do with politics at all.\n\nJoseph Askew\n", "\nOwwww!! Mr. Jefferson would be clearly disappointed in your designation of \nhim as author of the bill of rights. And your reference to those\nin Israel was condesceding and inappropriate.\nThe Declaratio of Independence of 1776 was written by Thomas Jefferson.\nIn 1787, the Constitution was drafted by 55 men in Philadelphia.\nIn 1791, the Bill of Rights was added. Well, maybe Jefferson\nwould be flattered.\n\nAs to you guys at UVA, your right, not all of you are anti-Jewish,\nor self-hating. But when I visited Charlottesville, I noticed\na distinct lack of diversity, from which I must assume you garner\nyour inability to perceive the reality of the outside world.\n", "\n# Well said Mr. Beyer :)\n\nHe-he. The great humanist speaks. One has to read Mr. Salah's posters,\nin which he decribes Jews as \"sons of pigs and monkeys\", keeps\npromising the \"final battle\" between Muslims and Jews (in which the\nstons and the trees will \"cry for the Muslims to come and kill the\nJews hiding behind them\"), makes jokes about Jews dying from heart\nattacks etc, to realize his objective stance on the matters involved.", "\n[BH] Tsiel,\n\n[BH] I would contend that there was shelling from both sides of the border,\n[BH] starting from the early 70's. Certainly the PLO did shell Northern\n[BH] Israel from the Arqoub region, but Israel did much more shelling\n[BH] destroying several South Lebanese villages. At the very least\n[BH] we can say that both sides exchanged shelling, with occasional\n[BH] aerial raids by Israel on Lebanese villages.\n[BH] In any case Steve's characterization that the 1982 invasion was only in \n[BH] response to years of shelling from Lebanon is false. Israel had\n[BH] many reasons for invading but mainly it did so to install a government\n[BH] in Lebanon favorable to Israel, and it nearly achieved this aim\n[BH] with the election of Basheer El Gemayel, and his brother, Amin\n[BH] El Gemayel, but the internal situation in Lebanon was too hard\n[BH] to control and predict so Israel had to withdraw, and Amin El Gemayel\n[BH] had to abrogate the 17 th of May Agreement.\n\nBasil,\n\nI was only correcting Steve's statement that Geurillas were shelling Israel\nfrom the Golan, which was absurd.\nThe fact that \"Israel did much more shelling\" was in response to Palestinian\nshelling from Lebanon. Israel has no intention of keeping an inch of Lebanese\nterritory. Israel will continue to fight Hizbullah, PLO, FPLP etc. as long as\nits northern border is not quiet. If the Lebanese army can control these \nelements then I think we can see genuine peace on the Israel-Lebanese border.\nI remind you that a couple thousand Lebanese cross each day into Israel to \nwork.\nAs for the election of Bashir Gemayel, it is true that he was favorable to\nIsrael, is that why the Syrians killed him? His brother Amin was a Syrian \npuppet, if he had not been, he would have been dead by now.\n\nTsiel", "Here is a press release from the White House.\n\n Text of President Clinton's Letter to Congress on Iranian Assets\n To: National Desk\n Contact: White House Press Office, 202-456-2100\n\n WASHINGTON, May 14 -- Following is a letter\nPresident Clinton wrote to Congress on Iranian Assets:\n\n TO THE CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES:\n\n I hereby report to the Congress on developments since the\n last Presidential report on November 10, 1992, concerning the\n national emergency with respect to Iran that was declared in\n Executive Order No. 12170 of November 14, 1979, and matters\n relating to Executive Order No. 12613 of October 29, 1987.\n This report is submitted pursuant to section 204(c) of the\n International Emergency Economic Powers Act, 50 U.S.C. 1703(c),\n and section 505(c) of the International Security and Development\n Cooperation Act of 1985, 22 U.S.C. 2349aa-9(c). This report\n covers events through March 31, 1993. The last report, dated\n November 10, 1992, covered events through October 15, 1992.\n\n 1. There have been no amendments to the Iranian\n Transactions Regulations (\"ITRs\"), 31 CFR Part 560, or to the\n Iranian Assets Control Regulations (\"IACRs\"), 31 CFR Part 535,\n since the last report.\n\n 2. The Office of Foreign Assets Control (\"FAC\") of the\n Department of the Treasury continues to process applications\n for import licenses under the ITRs. However, as previously\n reported, recent amendments to the ITRs have resulted in a\n substantial decrease in the number of applications received\n relating to the importation of nonfungible Iranian-origin goods.\n\n During the reporting period, the Customs Service has\n continued to effect numerous seizures of Iranian-origin\n merchandise, primarily carpets, for violation of the import\n prohibitions of the ITRs. FAC and Customs Service investi-\n gations of these violations have resulted in forfeiture actions\n and the imposition of civil monetary penalties. Additional\n forfeiture and civil penalty actions are under review.\n\n 3. The Iran-United States Claims Tribunal (the\n \"Tribunal\"), established at The Hague pursuant to the Algiers\n Accords, continues to make progress in arbitrating the claims\n before it. Since the last report, the Tribunal has rendered\n 12 awards, for a total of 545 awards. Of that total, 367 have\n been awards in favor of American claimants: 222 of these were\n awards on agreed terms, authorizing and approving payment of\n settlements negotiated by the parties, and 145 were decisions\n adjudicated on the merits. The Tribunal has issued 36 decisions\n dismissing claims on the merits and 83 decisions dismissing\n claims for jurisdictional reasons. Of the 59 remaining awards,\n 3 approved the withdrawal of cases, and 56 were in favor of\n Iranian claimants. As of March 31, 1993, awards to successful\n American claimants from the Security Account held by the\n NV Settlement Bank stood at $2,340,072,357.77.\n\n As of March 31, 1993, the Security Account has fallen\n below the required balance of $500 million 36 times. Iran has\n periodically replenished the account, as required by the Algiers\n Accords, by transferring funds from the separate account held by\n the NV Settlement Bank in which interest on the Security Account\n is deposited. Iran has also replenished the account with the\n proceeds from the sale of Iranian-origin oil imported into the\n United States, pursuant to transactions licensed on a case-by-\n case basis by FAC. Iran has not, however, replenished the\n account since the last oil sale deposit on October 8, 1992.\n The aggregate amount that has been transferred from the Interest\n Account to the Security Account is $874,472,986.47. As of\n March 31, 1993, the total amount in the Security Account was\n $216,244,986.03, and the total amount in the Interest Account\n was $8,638,133.15.\n\n 4. The Tribunal continues to make progress in the\n arbitration of claims of U.S. nationals for $250,000.00 or more.\n Since the last report, nine large claims have been decided.\n More than 85 percent of the nonbank claims have now been\n disposed of through adjudication, settlement, or voluntary\n withdrawal, leaving 76 such claims on the docket. The larger\n claims, the resolution of which has been slowed by their\n complexity, are finally being resolved, sometimes with sizable\n awards to the U.S. claimants. For example, two claimants were\n awarded more than $130 million each by the Tribunal in October\n 1992.\n\n 5. As anticipated by the May 13, 1990, agreement settling\n the claims of U.S. nationals for less than $250,000.00, the\n Foreign Claims Settlement Commission (\"FCSC\") has continued its\n review of 3,112 claims. The FCSC has issued decisions in\n 1,201 claims, for total awards of more than $22 million. The\n FCSC expects to complete its adjudication of the remaining\n claims in early 1994.\n\n 6. In coordination with concerned Government agencies,\n the Department of State continues to present United States\n Government claims against Iran, as well as responses by the\n United States Government to claims brought against it by Iran.\n In November 1992, the United States filed 25 volumes of\n supporting information in case B/1 (Claims 2 & 3), Iran's claim\n against the United States for damages relating to its Foreign\n Military Sales Program. In February of this year, the United\n States participated in a daylong prehearing conference in\n several other cases involving military equipment. Iran also\n filed a new interpretative dispute alleging that the failure\n of U.S. courts to enforce an award against a U.S. corporation\n violated the Algiers Accords.\n\n 7. As reported in November, Jose Maria Ruda, President of\n the Tribunal, tendered his resignation on October 2, 1992. No\n successor has yet been named. Judge Ruda's resignation will\n take effect as soon as a successor becomes available to take up\n his duties.\n\n 8. The situation reviewed above continues to involve\n important diplomatic, financial, and legal interests of the\n United States and its nationals. Iran's policy behavior\n presents challenges to the national security and foreign\n policy of the United States. The IACRs issued pursuant to\n Executive Order No. 12170 continue to play an important role\n in structuring our relationship with Iran and in enabling\n the United States to implement properly the Algiers Accords.\n Similarly, the ITRs issued pursuant to Executive Order No. 12613\n continue to advance important objectives in combatting inter-\n national terrorism. I shall exercise the powers at my disposal\n to deal with these problems and will report periodically to the\n Congress on significant developments.\n\n\n WILLIAM J. CLINTON\n\n\n THE WHITE HOUSE,\n May 14, 1993.\n\n -30-\n\n\n", "First of all I never said the Holocaust. I said before the\nHolocaust. I'm not ignorant of the Holocaust and know more\nabout Nazi Germany than most people (maybe including you). \n\tWhat I resent is ignorant statements that call people\nnames when they disagree with your position. Opposing the\natrocities commited by the Israeli governement hardly qualifies\nas anti-semitism. If you think name calling is a valid form of\nargument in intellectual circles, you need to get out more\noften.\n\tI don't think the suffering of some Jews during WWII\njustifies the crimes commited by the Israeli government. Any\nattempt to call Civil liberterians like myself anti-semetic is\nnot appreciated.\n", "\n\t\t\t^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nThis is very funny.\nAnyway, suppose that in fact israel didnot ATTACK jordan till jordan attacked\nisrael. Now, how do you explain the attack on Syria in 1967, Syria didnot\nenter the war with israel till the 4th day .\n\nBy the way it is funny that you are implying that the reason behind 1967\nby israel was only to capture Sinai, egypt ! \n", "\n\nIt's hard to beat a car-bomb with a suicidal driver in getting \nright up to the target before blowing up. Even booby-traps and\nradio-controlled bombs under cars are pretty efficient killers. \nYou have a point. \n\n\nIs this part of your Islamic value-system?\n\n\nHad Israeli methods been anything like this, then Iraq wouldn've been\nnuked long ago, entire Arab towns deported and executions performed by\nthe tens of thousands. The fact is, though, that Israeli methods\naren't even 1/10,000th as evil as those which are common and everyday\nin Arab states.\n\n\n\"Israeli soil\"???? Brad/Ali! Just wait until the Ayatollah's\nthought-police get wind of this. It's all \"Holy Muslim Soil (tm)\".\nHave you forgotten? May Allah have mercy on you now.\n\n", "\nMacedonia said yesterday it had neither requested or needs such\nforces. \n\nThis is sort of like sending the National Guard to Bel Air when\nthe riot is in South Central!\n\nObviously, Clinton is again trying to make policy for image purposes\nin America rather than to try to deal with the real problem and\nassume a share of responsibility for the problem. He obviously\ndidn't even consult with the Macedonians...he was just looking at\nthe map of the former Yugoslavia for the safest place to put \nAmerican troops so he could say to the Europeans...hey, look, we\nhave troops on the ground in the former Yugoslavia too...now let\nme bomb so I can make it look like I am doing something in the\nAmerican media. \n\nThe problem is that the blue berets in Bosnia are dead meat if\nClinton starts bombing, but Clinton doesn't have the courage to\nask that the blue berets leave, because then he becomes primarily\nresponsible to the Bosnian policy of the UN and the allies.\nClinton wants to have his cake and eat it too...he wants to feel\nfree to use American military power for the sake of domestic\nUS politics and his domestic image, but he doesn't want to assume\nthe primary international leadership role in the UN and among\nthe allies, like Bush, for all his faults, did in the Gulf War...\nbecause with leadership comes responsibility, and Clinton seems\nto want to retain the Europeans as scapegoats.\n\nClinton wants to leave the Europeans in charge and responsible,\nbut wants to freelance on the side...and if his freelancing gets\ntoo hot, he wants to be able to cut and run...the American public may\nbe easily fooled...European leaders aren't.", "\n\nOh yeah, Israel was really ready to \"expand its borders\" on the holiest day\nof the year (Yom Kippur) when the Arabs attacked in 1973. Oh wait, you\nchose to omit that war...perhaps because it 100% supports the exact \nOPPOSITE to the point you are trying to make? I don't think that it's\nbecause it was the war that hit Israel the hardest. Also, in 1967 it was\nEgypt, not Israel who kicked out the UN force. In 1948 it was the Arabs\nwho refused to accept the existance of Israel BASED ON THE BORDERS SET\nBY THE UNITED NATIONS. In 1956, Egypt closed off the Red Sea to Israeli\nshipping, a clear antagonistic act. And in 1982 the attack was a response\nto years of constant shelling by terrorist organizations from the Golan\nHeights. Children were being murdered all the time by terrorists and Israel\nfinally retaliated. Nowhere do I see a war that Israel started so that \nthe borders could be expanded.\n \n Steve\n-- ", "\n\nAhhh, of course. Israeli morality pales in the face of charming events \nlike the string of PLO-run skyjackings in the mid 80's (remember those \nTWA jokes?), and not to forget the Achille Lauro and however many airline\nbombings they have committed, not to mention bombings on the streets of \nIsrael (It's gotten to a point where children are told not to go near any\nbags or containers whose origins they don't know, because they could be \nbombs), or last weeks Katyusha rocket attack on Northern Israel by Fatah,\nthose wonderful \"mainstream moderates\" with whom Israel is attempting\nto negotiate.\n\nLet's not forget the fact that more Palestinians are killed by Palestinians\nthan by Israelis. Ahh yes, those charming humanitarian death squads.\nI've actually seen a videotape of an interrogation (DSee the documentary \n_Deadly Currents_--very neutral and balanced--seriously)--It was rather \ninquisition-esque. essentially, to prove his loyalty to \"the cause\" of\nwhichever group it was that was interogating him, he had to turn in someone\nelse, or else face death in one of the many fun-filled ways that the death-\nsquads love so much--beatings, dismemberment, acid, pouring melted plastic\non the face of the 'guilty party,' and of course beheading, always my \nfavorite. Did you catch the photos in the Washington Post a while back \nthe execution of a \"collaborator?\" 3 photos:\n1) one Palestinian leading another at gunpoint.\n2) The \"collaborator\" on his knees, the gun pointed at his temple.\n3) The executioner standing on the corpse of the \"collaborator\nshouting about how this is what happens to collaborators.\n\nWonderful justice system, and lots of regard for Human rights.\nRemember Black September?\nOk, so they just tried to take over Jordan, big deal.\n\nI'm rambling now, but are you getting what I'm saying?", "\n As someone who reads Israeli newpapaers every day, I can state\nwith absolute certainty, that anybody who relies on western media\nto get a picture of what is happening in Israel is not getting an\naccurate picture. There is tremendous bias in those stories that\ndo get reported. And the stories that NEVER get mentioned create\na completely false picture of the mideast.\n\n", "There are basically three alternatives for Gaza:\n\n1. To throw the Jews to the sea. that is basically to make them leave\n the Middle-East and go back to where they came from (russia, Europe, USA, etc)\n2. To throw the Gazans into the sea, in accordance with Yitzhak Rabin's\n wish and that of many Zionists.\n3. For Israelis and Palestinians to come to an honorable and fair (I\n don't attempt to say just) settlement, which would allow each person\n to live in dignity in his country in freedom and equality.\n\nI personnaly opt for the third alternative. How about you folks ?", "\nIt is funny how this one little quote from Genesis is treated\nby certain anti-Christians as if Christians have been given a\nfirm command to destroy the earth. You could prove almost\nanything by taking little quotes out of context from the Bible\n- it's a big book, you know. I doubt you could find a single\ncase of a anti-ecological action taking place specifically\nbecause teh perpetrator was motivated by a Christian belief.\n\nAs for the Nazis, they were motivated by German Nationalism,\nnot by Christianity. In fact they despised Christianity as a\nweak pacifist religion, and were much more keen on pagan\nglorification of strength and warfare. They killed the Jews\nbecause they were not Germans, not because they were\n\"Christ-killers\" - they were just as keen on killing the other\nnon-German ethnic minority, the Romanies or Gypsies.", "\nAll right! Let's hope they get off their rear ends and do something\nbecause the UN clearly is content to sit on its.\n", "\n\nHow about Jews who were expelled from their homelands in Iraq, Syria,\nJordan, Algeria, etc.? Don't they deserve justice, too?\n\n\nWhy is your criticism ALWAYS directed against Israel, but never\nagainst the Arab states, even when they are so much more guilty of the\naccusations you make? Is it because you now call yourself a\nPalestinean? \n\n\nThis is why the \"land-for-peace\" formula is so foolish. Land-for-land\nor peace-for-peace seems much more just, except that it would cost the\nArabs something and so is not under consideration. \n\nLet's not forget that about half of Israel's population are refugees\nfrom Arab countries. Somehow, THEIR land now being occupied by Arab\nstates and THEIR homes now being lived-in by Arab people are not\nincluded in any negotiations. Is this your prescription for peace? \n\n\nAgain, you've somehow managed to overlook the fact that the Arab\nstates are much more restrictive on these points. In fact, the\nofficially Judenrein policies of almost all of the Arab states makes\nthem resemble Nazi Germany chillingly closely.\n\n\nThere are many states in which Christians can live happily, many which\nhave official religions and Christian majorities and Christian-based\nlaws. There are some 2 dozen Arab and Islamic states. There is only\n1 (one) Jewish state. Do you have a problem with this? Is this one\nJewish state too many? There are others who might agree with you, you\nknow. \n\n\nHave you just arrived on tpm recently??? Again, the supporters of the\nArab and Islamic camps are frequently and massively guilty of\n\"emotional, infantile outbursts\" which have weakened their positions\ndramatically. Somehow, your criticisms are very one-sided and\nsimple-minded. \n\nP.S. How's the Fund coming along?\n", "From: Center for Policy Research \nSubject: Gaza and separation from Israel\n\n\nGaza and the idea of separation\n\nThe Israeli Left's inability to cope with the challenges it is\npresented with by reality becomes obvious at those moments when\nthe reality does not line up with the expectations of the left. We\nwere able to see this clearly during the Gulf War. Because of the\nPalestinian's popular solidarity with Iraq, Yossi Sarid -\ncurrently Minister of the Environment - made his infamous\nstatement: \"You look for me !\", i.e., I'am not making any more\nefforts to speak with you. From Yossi Sarid's point of view,\nPalestinian reality during the Gulf War was not the lengthy curfew\nor the danger of hunger it brought with it, but whether or not the\nPalestinians accepted what was acceptable to the party. Similarly\nMERETZ, MK Deddi Tzuker, recently faced with criticism from\nresidents of the West Bank town of Beit Sahour over his\ngovernment's and his party's lack of action for human rights and\npeace, responded by asking those present at the discussion whether\nthey would rather have a Likud government. From the Leftists'\nperspective this is the best government because it is THEIR\ngovernment, regardless of what it does.\n\nThese members of the Israeli Left have already decided how the\nfuture of the Occupied Territories will look, and they want to\ndictate to the Palestinians how to get there. An essential step\ntowards this future is their participation in Yitzhak Rabin's\ngovernment, and from their point of view the expulsions were a\nmarginal byproduct of this \"government of peace\", which need not\ndisturb the routine course of events. Likewise the \"Rabinic\"\npolicies in Gaza - the blowing up of houses with anti-tank rockets\nand the significant increases in the number of persons injured in\nthe suppression of demonstrations - need not disturb it.\n\nBut the fact that reality is not as they would have it forces\nitself upon them when a mob in Gaza falls upon a settler who has\nlost his way, when a settler is stabbed by his Palestinian\nworkers, or when a Palestinian knifes people in the streets of Tel\nAviv. Then all hell breaks loose and the Israeli Left has nothing\nto propose except separation: Let's cut ourselves off from the\nPalestinians, let's build a fence so high that they won't be able\nto harm us - this is the cry of the Israeli Left. Let us erect a\nfence between us and the reality whith is the occupation.\n\nMeron Benvenisti writes about this in Ha'aretz (4-3-93): \"...The\nliberal Left. which does not differentiate between physical\nseparation and 'the future of the territories', must come to\nunderstand that the regime of magnetic cards, exclusion of Arab\nworkers, closure, and curfew are instruments of enforcement\ndesigned for the suppression of a population in revolt, and that\ntheir ideological support for separation only provides\n'humanitarian' arguments for the legitimization of the .\n\nEnforced separation is carried out only to meet the need of the\nruling community, but it is only the ruled population which bears\nits burden. [.....].\n\n\"Whoover thinks that 'out of Gaza first' is a liberal,\nhumanitarian idea had best contemplate the question of whether\nthis position is also moral. It is very easy to shake off\nresponsibility for this concentration of human suffering, and to\nthus also disregard responsibility for it's creation. It is very\neasy to erect a fence between Jewish and Arab neighborhoods in\nJerusalem, when this fence has a gate - the keys to which are at\nthe disposal of one hand - which opens to allow the Jews to pursue\nall their interests, but is barred to the Arabs...\".", "\nTrue. At first, the news media seemed entranced by all the new gizmos\nthe military was using, not to mention the taped video transmissions from\nthe missiles as they zeroed in on their targets. But later, and especially\nafter the bunker full of civilians was hit, they changed their tone. It\nseemed to me that they didn't have the stomach for the reality of war,\nthat innocent people really do die and are maimed in warfare. It's like\nthey were only pro-Gulf-War as long as it was \"nice and clean\" (smart\nmissiles dropping in on military HQs), but not when pictures of dead,\ndying, and maimed civilians started cropping up. What naive hypocrites!\n\n\n[ discussion about blanket-bombing and A-bombs deleted.]\n ^^^^^^^^^\n\nI should have said here \"militarily justified\". It seems from your\ncomments below that you understood this as meaning \"morally justified\".\nI apologize.\n\n\nI have often wondered about this. I've always thought that the first bomb\nshould have been dropped on Japan's island fortress of Truk. A good,\ninpenatrable military target. The second bomb could've been held back\nfor use on an industrial center if need be. But I digress.\n\nYes, I have heard that we found evidence (after the war, BTW) that Japan\nwas seriously considering surrender after the first bomb. Unfortunately,\nthe military junta won out over the moderates and rejected the US's\nulimatum. Therefore the second bomb was dropped. Most unfortunate, IMO.\n\n\nI don't regret the fact that sometimes military decisions have to be made\nwhich affect the lives of innocent people. But I do regret the \ncircumstances which make those decisions necessary, and I regret the\nsuffering caused by those decisions. \n\n[...]\n\n\nActually, it was the fact that both situations existed that prompted US\nand allied action. If some back-water country took over some other\nback-water country, we probably wouldn't intervene. Not that we don't\ncare, but we can't be the world's policman. Or if a coup had occured\nin Kuwait (instead of an invasion), then we still wouldn't have acted\nbecause there would not have been the imminent danger perceived to\nSaudi Arabia. But the combination of the two, an unprovoked invasion\nby a genocidal tyrant AND the potential danger to the West's oil \ninterests, caused us to take action.\n\n\n[...]\n\nI'm not setting up a strawman at all. If you want to argue against the\nwar, then the only logical alternative was to allow Hussein to keep\nKuwait. Diplomatic alternatives, including sanctions, were ineffective.\n\nWell, in a sense, yes. They probably had no idea of what end Hitler\nwould lead their nation to.\n\n\nThey suffered along with the rest. Why does this bother you so much?\nThe world is full of evil, and circumstances are not perfect. Many\ninnocents suffer due to the wrongful actions of others. It it regretable,\nbut that's The-Way-It-Is. There are no perfect solutions.\n\n[...]\n\nProbably because we're not the saviors of the world. We can't police each\nand every country that decides to self-destruct or invade another. Nor\nare we in a strategic position to get relief to Tibet, East Timor, or\nsome other places.\n\nTell me how we could stop them and I'll support it. I, for one, do not\nagree with the present US policy of \"sucking up to them\" as you put it.\nI agree that it is deplorable.\n\n\nAre they? Or are they supposed to reflect the population of the locale\nwhere the trial is held? (Normally this is where the crime is committed\nunless one party or the other can convince the judge a change of venue\nis in order.) I'm not an expert on California law, or even US law, but\nit seems that this is the way the system is set up. You can criticize\nthe system, but let's not have unfounded allegations of racial \nprejudice thrown around.\n\n\nNo, not at all. The point is that the fact that there were no blacks\non the first jury and that Rodney King is black is totally irrelevant.\n\n\nGermans, perhaps. \"Peers\" doesn't mean \"those who do the same thing\",\nlike having murderers judge murderers. It means \"having people from\nthe same station in life\", presumably because they are in a better\nposition to understand the defendent's motivation(s).\n\n\nOK, granted. However, you are using this reasoning as part of *your*\nlogical argument in this discussion. This is not a court of law.\n\nThe media is not totally monolithic. Even though there is a prevailing\nliberal bias, programs such as the MacNeil-Lehrer News Hour try to give\na balanced and fair reporting of the news. There are even conservative\nsources out there if you know where to look. (Hurrah for Rush!)\n\nBTW, I never used the word \"conspiracy\". I don't accept (without *far*\nmore evidence) theories that there is some all-pervading liberal\nconspiracy attempting to take over all news sources.\n\n\nHardly. I didn't say that it's a Good Thing [tm] to kill innocent people\nif the end is just. Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world and\nthere are no perfect solutions. If one is going to resist tyranny, then\ninnocent people on both sides are going to suffer and die. I didn't say\nit is OK -- it is unfortunate, but sometimes necessary.\n\n\nI would agree that it was evil in the sense that it caused much pain\nand suffering. I'm not so sure that it was unnecessary as you say. That\nconclusion can only be arrived at by evaluating all the factors involved.\nAnd perhaps it *was* unnecessary as (let's say) we now know. That doesn't\nmean that those who had to make the decision to bomb didn't see it as\nbeing necessary. Rarely can one have full known of the consequences of\nan action before making a decision. At the time it may have seemed\nnecessary enough to go ahead with it.\n\nBut don't assume that I feel the bombing was *morally* justified -- I\ndon't! I just don't condemn those who had to make a difficult\ndecision under difficult circumstances.\n\n\nYou certainly are not in such a position if you are a moral relativist.\nI, as an absolutist, am in a position to judge, but I defer judgment.\n\n\nWrong. They were neither moral then nor now. They seemed necessary to\nthose making the decisions to bring a quick end to the war. I simply\nrefuse to condemn them for their decision.\n\nOne day I will stand before Jesus and give account of every word and action;\neven this discourse in this forum. I understand the full ramifications of\nthat, and I am prepared to do so. I don't believe that you can make the\nsame claim.\n\n\nAnd BTW, the reason I brought up the blanket-bombing in Germany was\nbecause you were bemoaning the Iraqi civilian casualties as being \n\"so deplorable\". Yet blanket bombing was instituted because bombing\nwasn't accurate enough to hit industrial/military targets in a\ndecisive way by any other method at that time. But in the Gulf War,\nprecision bombing was the norm. So the point was, why make a big\nstink about the relatively few civilian casualties that resulted\n*in spite of* precision bombing, when so many more civilians\n(proportionately and quantitatively) died under the blanket bombing\nin WW2? Even with precision bombing, mistakes happen and some\ncivilians suffer. But less civilians suffered in this war than\nany other iany other in history! Many Iraqi civilians went about their lives\nwith minimal interference from the allied air raids. The stories\nof \"hundreds of thousands\" of Iraqi civilian dead is just plain bunk.\nYes, bunk. The US lost 230,000 servicemen in WW2 over four years\nand the majority of them were directly involved in fighting! But \nwe are expected to swallow that \"hundreds of thousands\" of \n*civilian* Iraqis died in a war lasting about 2 months! And with \nthe Allies using the most precise bombs ever created at that! \nWhat hogwash. If \"hundreds of thousands\" of Iraqi civilians died, \nit was due to actions Hussein took on his own people, not due to \nthe Allied bombing.\n\nRegards,", "\nFrom a parallel thread. Much about definitions of bombs, etc. deleted.\n[...]\n\n\nMathew, I agree. This, it seems, is the crux of your whole position,\nisn't it? That the US shouldn't have supported Hussein and sold him arms\nto fight Iran? I agree. And I agree in ruthlessly hunting down those\nwho did or do. But we *did* sell arms to Hussein, and it's a done deal.\nNow he invades Kuwait. So do we just sit back and say, \"Well, we sold\nhim all those arms, I suppose he just wants to use them now. Too bad\nfor Kuwait.\" No, unfortunately, sitting back and \"letting things be\"\nis not the way to correct a former mistake. Destroying Hussein's\nmilitary potential as we did was the right move. But I agree with\nyour statement, Reagan and Bush made a grave error in judgment to\nsell arms to Hussein. So it's really not the Gulf War you abhor\nso much, it was the U.S.'s and the West's shortsightedness in selling\narms to Hussein which ultimately made the war inevitable, right?\n\nIf so, then I agree.\n\n[more deleted.]\n\nRegards,", "\n\nThere are many cases, but I do not remeber names. The Isralis shot and killed\na UN observer in Gaza in the first half of Intifada.", "In Re:Syria's Expansion, the author writes that the UN thought\nZionism was Racism and that they were wrong. They were correct\nthe first time, Zionism is Racism and thankfully, the McGill Daily\n(the student newspaper at McGill) was proud enough to print an article\nsaying so. If you want a copy, send me mail.", "\n\nThe village I described was actually the closest I could come to\ndescribing mine. I agree there may be other villages where the civilian\npopulation has deserted because it is too close to Israeli lines and\nthus gets bombed more often. In such villages often the only remaining \ninhabitants are guerillas and some elderly who have nowhere else to go.\nBut for the most part the typical South Lebanon village is more like\nmine. One where civilians and guerillas live together. They are\noften inhabiting the same house. Many families are large, some\nhave members of the families involved in Hizollah, most others\nare not. That is what is so hard of South Lebanon, Israel is\nnot fighting an army with well drawn battle lines, but a guerilla\ntyoe resistance which by definition and necessity blends with\nthe local populace. Not because they are evil cowards that\nuse women and children as shields, but because that is the only\nway one can fight a more powerful better equipped occupying army.\n\n\nHizbollah and Amal are now the main two militias. Though\nHizbollah people tend to be more committed to resistrance\noperation and better motivated by religious conviction.\n\n As to retaliation,\n\nIt may be a mixture of what we both say. Sometimes Israel chooses\nits targets carefully. At other times it just sends its pilots on\nsorties aimed at a town in general since it only knows that the \nattackers came from that specific village but has no further\nintelligence. On several occasions Israel retalliated against \ncivilian refugee camps, even in North Lebanon, just to show\nthat it will not sit idly after its soldiers have been attacked.\nMost of the time it directs the SLA to do the dirty work and\nindiscriminately shell some Lebanese villages on the other side.\nI have experienced this shelling myself on several occasions,\nthis is why the SLA militia is sometimes even more despised than \nIsraeli troops.\n\n\nI hope you are right on Israeli willingness to withdraw, but I still\ncontend that withdrawal would be the better course for Israel's\nsecurity, since it would reduce its military losses, and I claim\nthat the Lebanese and Syrian gov'ts would be able to prevent any \nfurther attacks on Northern Israel.\n \n\n\nHmm... Here we disagree on what serves Syria interests better.\nI think Syria wants to have Lebanon all to itself. It would\nbe willing to guarantee Northern Israel's security in return for\nIsraeli withdrawal. I don't think Syria wants Israel to be\ninvolved in its protectorate of Lebanon. Syria is sitting at the\nnegotiating table because it has come to accept that and wants\nto get a political resolution. A renewal of hostilities\nalong the Lebanese front could put the whole ME peace negotiations\nback in question.\n\n\n\n\nI agree that the loss of any human life is deplorable and regrettable.\n", "\nEnding an embargo does not _we_ must sell anything at all.\n\n\nYou seem to oppose ending the embargo. You know, it is difficult for Europeans\nto sell weapons when there is an embargo in place.\n\n\nBut if this was the reason, and if furthermore both sides are equal, wouldn't\nall us racist Americans be favoring the good Christians (Serbs) instead\nof the non-Christians we really seem to favor?\n--\n\"On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Leftover Turkey!\nOn the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Turkey Casserole\n that she made from Leftover Turkey.\n[days 3-4 deleted] ... Flaming Turkey Wings! ...\n -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait)", "\n4. Annex Gaza to Egypt.\n5. Annex Gaza to Israel\n6. Maintain the status quo.\n7. Partition Gaza into a Jewish and an Arab state.\n\n\tI don't necisarily support any of these, I just felt like\npointing out there are way more than three solutions. Next time,\nmaybe we'll see some research into them....\n\nAdam\nAdam Shostack \t\t\t\t adam@das.harvard.edu", "From: New Liberation News Service \nSubject: NLNS: Fascism with a Friendly Face\n\n/* Written 8:33 pm Apr 14, 1993 by nlns@igc.apc.org in igc:nlns.news */\n/* ---------- \"NLNS Packet 3.11 *** 4-14-93\" ---------- */\n\nFascism with a Friendly Face: Does Rush Limbaugh Remind You of \nAnyone?\nDaevid Bornhuetter-Machen, The Madison Edge\n\n\"The main difference between Adolf Hitler and Rush Limbaugh is that \nHitler was original and showed initiative.\" \n--Mort Sahl on The Tom Snyder Radio Show, ABC Radio Network, \nOctober 27, 1992.\n\n(NLNS)--Believe it or not, I was planning this comparative review of \nMein Kampf and Limbaugh's transcribed rant, The Way Things Ought to \nBe before Sahl issued his comparative review. As usual, Sahl's was \nindependent and sharp as a scalpel.\n\tMy effort can only dream of comparing favorably to Mort's. At \nleast it has a fairly popular orginating premise; everyone I'd mention the \nidea to thought it was either divinely inspired or at least past due for \ndelivery.\n\tThose reactions are based on parallels that should be obvious to the \nmost peripheral observer of the Acts of those False Prophets. Both are \nnoted for their galvanizing oratorical skills, which they both used with \npassion to generate a political cult of massive numerical proportions (in \nfact, Limbaugh claims to have an audience of just over 12 million, almost \nidentical to the number of votes cast for Hitler in the April 1932 German \nelection). Both used a myopic social perspective to build the cult, and \nenthusiastically amputated facts from the record to fabricate their \nideological quilt.\n\tThe last point is glaringly documented by passages in the opening \npages of both books. Hitler's example is when, on page 5, he claims the \nGerman nationalist terrorist Leo Schlageter (he bombed part of a railway \nline between Dusseldorf and Duisburg, being caught in the act, in 1923) \nwas \"betrayed to France by a representative of his government\" when \nthere has never been any factual foundation for such a statement.\n\tIn fact, the governments of both the Reich and Prussia, as well as \nthe Vatican, actively intervened to save him from execution, and almost \nsucceeded. Limbaugh follows suit by making the hysterically sarcastic \nclaim in his introduction that \"in a school or during a commencement \nceremony or many other public places... God is unconstitutional.\" Of \ncourse, it's not God but the official imposition of particular concepts of \nGod against an individual's will that's unconstitutional. But Limbaugh is \ntoo gleeful in his talent for distortion to want you to know that.\n\tOf course, one would assume that, by comparing the two books, \nmy main point would be that The Way Things Ought to Be is the modern \nAmerican Mein Kampf. Not really. At the time of the first German version \nof Mein Kampf, Hitler was just four months out of prison (June, 1925), \nand trying to reorganize the Nazis. He used the book to build his dozen \nmillion followers. Limbaugh, on the other hand, came up with his book \nafter building his dozen million. Twelve million went a longer way in \nWeimar Germany that it does in the Republicrat United States.\n\tThus, the more accurate parallels would be that Limbaugh's daily \nthree-hour radio show is the American Mein Kampf, the primary \npropoganda tool used to pump up the angry volume; and that The Way \nThings Ought to Be is actually the American Triumph of the Will, a \ntranslation of the same fascist message into a different medium. Also, the \nprinted word was the more important medium in Weimar Germany, since \nradio was still being thought of by impoverished Germans as a medium of \nluxury in 1925. Today, on the other hand, Americans are more likely to \nspend a few seconds to tune a radio dial at no monetary charge than drop \n$22 for 304 pages of transcripts of the same words.\n\tBut, as Mort Sahl also observed on the radio the other night, some \ncloutmeister of the radical right wants Limbaugh to be a focal point of \ntheir propoganda. (And remember, Sahl is an Al Haig conservative these \ndays.)\n\tMort might not know exactly who Rush's equivalent of Rodolf \nHess is (the book itself suggests Ed McLaughlin, the former president of \nABC radio and now Limbaugh's partner in EFM Media, the radio \nprogram's production company). But Mort himself is a veteran of the talk \nshow, having hosted them in New York, Washington and Los Angeles. He \nknows what evil lurks in the hearts of major market media men. He knows \nthat Limbaugh could not have collected his audience had not the \nopportunity been placed on a silver platter and handed to him. Limbaugh \nearns his money just as honestly as Al Capone did; it's almost worthy of a \nRICO indictment.\n\tOn questions of social issues, there is an overabundance of \nmaterial in the Limbaugh book that seems to echo Hitler's venom. For \nexample:\n\nOn Their Own Qualifications to Control Society\n\tHitler: \"Out of the host of sometimes millions of people, who \nindividually more or less clearly and distinctly guess the truth, partly \nperhaps understand it, one man [author's emphasis] must step forward in \norder to form, with apodeictic force, out of the wavering world of \nimagination of the great masses, granite principles, and to take up the fight \nfor their sole correctness, until out of the playing waves of a free world of \nthought a brazen rock of uniform combination of form and will arises\" \n(page 577).\n\tLimbaugh: \"Who needs the media when they've got me? ... The \nshow is devoted exclusively to what I think ... [the phrase \"with half my \nbrain tied behind my back to make it even\"] denotes the egress of mental \naptitude I require to engage and demolish liberals and others who disagree \nwith me ... It might take four or five years, but I'm convinced The Media \nwill slowly and reluctantly come around to my way of thinking, kicking \nand screaming all the way.\" (pages 266, 21, 299 and 273, respectively.)\n\nOn Religion as the Basis of a Nation\n\tHitler: \"In this world human culture and civilization are \ninseperably bound up with the existence of the Aryan. His dying-off or his \ndecline would again lower upon this earth the dark veils of a time without \nculture ... He who dares to lay hand upon the highest image of the Lord \nsins against the benevolent Creator of this miracle and helps in the \nexpulsion from Paradise.\" (Page 581.)\n\tLimbaugh: \"America was founded as a Judeo-Christian country ... \nBut our intellectual and political elites are often either hostile or \nambivalent toward religion ... People for whom belief in God is at best a \ncharming superstition have managed to ban prayer from the public schools \nfor the last thirty years. Is it only a coincidence that the quality of \nAmerican education has declined ever since?\" (pages 274-5.)\n\nOn Popular Culture as a Reason for Social Collapse\n\tHitler: \"The fight against the poisoning of the soul has to set in ... \nOne has only to look at the menus of our movie houses, vaudevilles and \ntheatres; and one can hardly deny that this is not the right kind of food ... \nTheatre, art, literature, movies, the press, billposters and window displays \nmust be cleaned of the symptoms of a rotting world and put into the \nservice of a moral idea of State and culture.\" (pages 346 and 348.)\n\tLimbaugh: \"Today, Hollywood is in trouble. The reason [is] that \nHollywood has forgotten who its audience is ... They make fun of people \nwho believe in God. They ridicule the traditional family, heterosexuality \nand monagamy. They disparage American heroes.\" (page 254.)\n\nOn the News Meida\n\tHitler: \"The activity of the so-called liberal press was the work of \ngravediggers for the German people and the German Reich. One can pass \nby in silence the Marxist papers of lies ... it's task is only to break the \npeople's folkish and national spine, in order to make it ripe for the yoke of \nslavery of international capital and its masters, the Jews.\" (Page 331.)\n\tLimbaugh: \"Elements of The Media have jumped on the \nbandwagon of leftist causes. The cynical journalist of the past has been \nreplaced in many cases by an enthusiastic cheerleader for causes ... During \nthe Gulf war, CNN correspondent Bernard Shaw [said] CNN is a global \nnetwork. We can't take sides. Cant take sides? --- --- ---! ... If they don't \nrealize that their freedom lies in the United States of America and that \ntherefore they should defend this nation, they are hopelessly misguided \nand, may I suggest, flirting with megalomania.\" (pages 270 and 268.)\n\n* * *\n\t\nTo continue these comparative excerpts is certainly possible, but \nultimately too depressing to take in one reading.\n\tAfter putting these books down, there is one undeniable fact that \nhaunts me. In the 1920s, Adolf Hitler fed depressed and frightened \nGermans the opiate of hatred of those around them; in turn, it allowed \nGermans to hand their collective national power to the Nazis. In the 1990s, \nRush Limbaugh is doing the very same thing: distributing hatred to \ndepressed and frightened Americans; in turn, it is helping the American \nradical right to maintain its power base as the 12-year nightmare of the \nReagan-Bush era comes to an end, hoping to rebuild it into their hopes for \nThe Fascist States of America.\n\tAnd if Limbaugh is not as repellant a Hitler, it is only because the \nradical right utilizes Limbaugh as its own gateway opiate. One can only \nwonder what the ultimate drug is they plan to hook America on.\n\nThe Madison Edge can be reached at PO Box 845, Madison, WI 53701-\n0845; (608) 255-4460.", "REFLECTIONS ON BOSNIA\n\nLORD OWEN AND THE SERBS\n\nIn early February '93, Lord Owen made appearances in New York City\non the Donahue and Charlie Rose shows. On a couple of occasions on\nthose shows Lord Owen gave away his pro-Serbian position when he\nmade the point that much or most of the Bosnian territory then in\ndispute or already overrun by Serbian forces had been controlled\nand occupied by Serbs before WWII. It was as if he were saying\nthat since the Serbs had previously occupied those territories and\nlost them during the Hitler years, they should be allowed to\nreconquer them today.\n\nI was familiar with this view because my father, a Yugoslav Jew\nwho escaped to this country during the war, was aided and found\nsympathy among the Serbs during those harrowing years. In recent\nmonths when the subject of Serbian aggression was mentioned, my\nfather would make the point that 850,000 Serbs were killed by Nazi\nand pro-Nazi Croatian forces known as the Ustasha. My father is\nso pro-Serbian that he dismissed reports of Serbian atrocities. My\nfather also excoriated New York Times columnist Anthony Lewis,\nbecause, my father said, Anthony Lewis \"is always talking about\nthe Muslims.\"\n\nUpdate--April 28, 1993 After an uneasy truce in and around\nSbernica, shelling has resumed in nearby areas by all sides and\nthe killing and the misery continues apace while the Clinton\nadministration dithers its response. In the days leading to the\ncollapse of resistance at Sbernica, Lord Owen changed his tune.\nPreviously he had opposed military intervention on the grounds\nthat it would endanger U.N. relief workers. When Serbian forces\nbegan to march on Sbernica, the threat to U.N. relief soldiers\nwent unmentioned while Lord Owen called for outside intervention\nto stop Serbian aggression, including the use of air strikes. The\ncurrent disastrous situation can be seen as a failure of the West\nand a failure of the Vance-Owen initiative which did nothing to\nhalt the Serbs. Now that it's too late to save Muslim areas that\nLord Owen felt should be in a Muslim state, Lord Owen belatedly\ncalls for strong action.\n\nCLINTON AND BOSNIA\n\nIn the summer of 1992, George Kenney, a senior State Department\nofficial, the undersecretary in charge of the Yugoslav desk, made\nnews when he resigned from the State Department because of the\nBush administration's refusal to take any action to halt Serbian\naggression. As Kenney saw it, Bush's inaction was largely due to\nthe president's unwillingness to risk any political capital by\ngetting involved there.\n\nApparently the same is true of the Clinton administration.\nClinton gives the impression that he cares more than Bush did\nabout the terrible ongoing tragedy, but the practical effect has\nso far been the same.\n\nAccording to the New York Times, (4/16/93) the Clinton\nadministration did everything it could to suppress a mid-March\nreport by its own experts which called for military action if\nnecessary to protect \"safe havens\" for the Muslims. At one point,\nSenate majority leader, George Mitchell was so incensed that the\nreport was kept from Congress, that he called for an\ninvestigation.\n\nInstead of helping the desperate Bosnians, Clinton has signalled\nagain and again that Milosevic and the Serbs are free to do what\nthey want in Bosnia--indeed, Clinton and the West have been\nsignalling that the Serbs should get on with the job and finish\noff the Bosnians as quickly as possible while we turn the other\nway. A key signal was when Clinton made it clear that he would\nNOT send in American military forces on the ground. On this\nissue, Clinton has made me wistful for Bush. Bush and Baker could\nnot have done worse, and might have been pressured to do better\nwell before this time. Lives in Bosnia might have been saved and\nthe destruction might have been curtailed..\n\nThe Nation, the left and \"the Bosnian QUANDARY\"\n\nTypical of the left's inability to come to grips with the core\nissue involved in Bosnia, i.e., a clear aggressor destroying\nhundreds of thousands of lives, is the editorial on the \"Bosnian\nquandary\" in The Nation (4/26/93). In the end the editorial votes\nto do nothing, even while noticing \"the ghastly atrocities of the\nBosnian Serbs\" and that the \"greater and lesser powers...dither\nand fuss [and] hang back.\" (\"Before anything else happens, the\nClinton Administration ought to pay the $530 million the United\nStates owes the\" U.N. the editorial concludes.)\n\nIn its most striking passage, the editorial writer warns that\n\"those who are pushing President Clinton to intervene on the side\nof the Bosnians had better review U.S. foreign policy since World\nWar II.\" The editorial argues for inaction on the basis that the\nBosnian Serbs are no worse than any number of U.S. clients\nincluding the Chileans, the South Africans, the Greek fascists and\nothers. (In a subsequent column for The Nation, Christopher\nHitchens correctly called this editorial, \"contemptible.\")\n\n***\n\nWilliam Pfaff, a European based journalist who writes for the The\nNew Yorker and the Los Angeles Times, is among a group of liberal\ncolumnists like Anthony Lewis, and Leslie Gelb who have clearly\nand consistently called for strong Western and American\nintervention to stop the Serbs. Pfaff's most recent column\n(Liberal Opinion Week 4/19/93) is entitled \"International\nCowardice Worsened Bosnian Tragedy.\"\n\nHe clarifies the international failure which has led to present\nsituation in one sentence. \"Having refused to intervene to\nsanction the threat to minority rights in newly independent\nCroatia in June 1991, or to block or penalize the military\naggression by Serbia that immediately followed, and the atrocious\n\"ethnic cleansing\" which followed that, the United Nations now\ncontemplates deploying in Bosnia military force on a scale which\ntwo years ago could have deterred the horrors Yugoslavia has since\nexperienced.\" He goes on to explain that U.N. plans now envisaged\ncall for a \"more daunting and open-ended military assignment than\na direct military intervention to halt the aggression would have\nbeen a year ago.\"\n\nAryeh Neier on the Serbs In his \"Watching Rights\" column in the\nThe Nation (5/3/93) Aryeh Neier gets to the heart of the\nmotivation of the \"aggressors\"--the preferred term for the Serbian\nforces who have been besieging and shelling Sarajevo for more than\na year. He explains that \"there is no military purpose that is\nserved by the destruction of its fabric and its people...Above\nall, few of those aligned with the forces attacking Sarajevo would\nwant to live there even if the city could be rebuilt. They are\nnot city people.\n\n\"It is this, I believe--aside from a desire to break the morale of\nBosnians and make them press their government to accept peace at\nany price--that explains the conduct of the siege of\nSarajevo...[I]t is a loathing for all that is urban, pluralist and\ncosmopolitan that has made Sarajevo the object for devastation.\n\n\"Historically, most of the Serbian population in Bosnia and\nHerzegovina has been rural, while Muslims, who were the civil\nservants and intelligentsia during the centuries of Ottoman rule,\nmade up a disproportionate share of the urban population....The\ndestruction of Sarajevo is not only an expression of hostility\nagainst this city; it is also an attack on the urban idea....The\ndemagogues who whipped up the passions let loose by this war\nexploited not only ethnic and religious bigotry but also hatred\nfor all that is cosmopolitan.\"\n\nThe light that Neier sheds on the issue helps to clarify what is\nat stake. The Serbs represent the know-nothing, anti-secularist,\nfundamentalist, fascist forces who are attacking the urban,\ncosmopolitan, secular, multi-cultural idea. They are attacking\nthe rest of us, just as Hitler did. One irony is that at the\nbeginning of the crisis over Bosnia, it was for awhile maintained\nby the Serbs and their supporters that they were responding to a\nthreat by the Bosnian Muslims to create a fundamentalist state.\n\nNeier has shown that it is the Serbs who are the great threat to\nsecularism, multi-culturalism, diversity and democracy. It's the\nSerbs who are attacking the democratic notion, the democratic\nidea.\n\nAnthony Lewis comes close to the point when he asks why does\nrespect for Clinton's presidency \"depend...on his acting\neffectively against Serbian aggression?...First of all because to\ndo nothing about genocide would be such a betrayal of the values\nwe and our allies profess.\" (Times, 4/26/93) But it's not merely\na betrayal of our values. It's because the Serbs are attacking us\nby proxy, just as Hitler was.\n\nOne argument for decisive action by the West that is heard in a\ndifferent form, is that war in the Balkans is destablizing for\nEurope. We hear it as, the Bosnians are Europe's Palestinians;\nthat is to say, just as the Palestinian refugee problem has been\nthe key to instability in the Middle East, just so will the\nhundreds of thousands of Yugoslav refugees of all ethnicities\nresult in turmoil in Europe for decades to come.\n\nOne of the lessons of the twentieth century is that even though\nthe Atlantic Ocean divides us, the Americas are ultimately tied to\nthe destiny of Europe. If Europe is destabilized, the U.S. will\ninevitably be affected and drawn into its problems. As in a\nwhirlpool, sooner or later we will be drawn into the maelstrom.\nAnd as past history and Pfaff have shown, it's much better if we\ndo so decisively, quickly and on our terms.", "\nIt was shafting on the part of the Arab land owners for doing it \nwithout notifying their tenant farmers and for not being responsible \nenough to make provisions for them, but rather just leaving\nthem to their fate.\n\nThe point is that the land was sold legally, often at prices\nabove its actual value. It was legal, and good business for\nthe sellers, though it left the Palestinians who worked the land\nin a poor situation. \n\nI don't know if others share this opinion. It is mine,\nand I'm sure there are some who agree and some who don't\nThe way I see it, the fallahin were caught in circumstances \nbeyond their control, in that since they didn't own the land,\nthey didn't have a say. Of course, now for the sake of the \"greater \nArab unity\" the Arabs are angry that the land was sold to the Jews\n(an act that is illegal in Jordan), but when it happened, it was just \nbusiness. \n\nThe purpose of buying the land was to provide space and jobs for \nJewish immigrants. In any case, no matter what the purpose, \nthe sales were legal, so I really don't see any grounds for \ncontesting them.", "\n\nThe lengthy article you quote doesn't imply this. It only states that\nit is somehow POSSIBLE, not that it is in any way likely. This is akin\nto an article saying that it is POSSIBLE that the USAF has several\ncaptured UFOs, without supporting the liklihood of such an assertion.\n\n\nIn other words, they were telling a pesky reporter to keep guessing.\n\nIsrael maintains this same attitude about nuclear weapons it may or\nmay not have. The US maintains the same attitude about the presence\nof nuclear weapons on specific naval craft. By refusing to\nacknowledge the existence of such weapons on specific ships, US\nwarships have, I believe, become unwelcome in New Zealand, which has\ndeclared itself a nuclear-free-zone. \n\n\nThe USAF has never officially admitted to having any UFOs, either.\n\n\nThis is stated as a fact without supporting evidence. It would've\nbeen more convincing if your reporter had come up with just one name\nof someone who is sitting in jail, lost to the world, as he suggests.\nMaybe Elvis, or JFK, somebody. \n\nLet's put it this way: If Israel has put people away without\npublicizing their arrests or the legal proceedings against them, how\nhas their disappearance been explained? People have relatives,\nfriends and colleagues, you know. Israel is not known as a place\nwhere people are made to vanish. Would you care to give us a list of\npeople whose whereabouts are unknown? People who are presumed to be\nimprisoned? This whole conspiracy story isn't something that we've\ncome to associate with Yigal Arens before. Perhaps from now on, we\nshould. \n", "\n\n\nHey tough guy, freedom necessitates responsibility, and\nno freedom is absolute. \nBTW, to anyone who defends Arafat, read on:\n\n\"Open fire on the new Jewish immigrants, be they from the Soviet\nUnion, Ethiopia or anywhere else....I give you my instructions to\nuse violence against the immigrants. I willjail anyone who\nrefuses to do this.\"\n\t\t\t\tYassir Arafat, Al-Muharar, 4/10/90\n\nAt least he's not racist!\nJust anti-Jewish\n", "\nAfter reading the first paragraph, a quick scan confirmed my first\nimpression: this is a bunch of revisionist and anti-semitic hogwash.\n\nThe NY Times reported on April 18, 1993 that the museum \"was built\nthrough private contributions on Federal land\". Your hate-mongering\narticle is devoid of current and historical fact, intellectual content\nand social value. Down the toilet it goes.....\n\n", "\n\nWhat did you have to go and bring THAT up for? Now they're going to\nsay that Israel is stealing the RAIN, too....\n", "\nAnother name for this region is Cis-Jordan.", "Bill Coleman writes...\n \n(responding to a discussion about a mosque in Jerusalem allegedly \nhaving been destroyed by Israel)\n\nBC> In today's Jerusalem Post Magazine there is a feature story about the\nBC> ongoing restoration of synagogues in the Jewish Quarter. The author,\nBC> Leah Abramowitz, writes that there were FIFTY-SEVEN synagogues in the\nBC> quarter in 1948, ALL of which were destroyed, some, she says, used as\nBC> donkey stables. The building shells, that is.\nBC> \nBC> I still find it really, really hard to understand why the demolition\nBC> of the buildings in front of the Kotel continues to evoke more outrage\nBC> than this. Everything is so much cheaper when it happens to the Jews.\nBC> \nBC> Why?\n \n The double standard of human behavior regarding the Jews must\n be manitained.\n\n A perfect example is the outcry over the temporary removal of\n 400 men who advocated murdering Jews and destroying the State\n of Israel, compared to the deafening silence over the abusive\n treatment of Jews in Arab countries during the past 50 years.\n\n Compare the tacit appoval that the world gives to Muslims who\n randomly murder Jewish civilians to the righteous indignation\n expressed if people in the occupied territories are kept from\n working in Israel in an effort to reduce these random murders\n from occuring, while everyone knows that no country is at all\n required to accept foreign workers, except Israel, of course.\n\n Jewish blood has always been cheap. The non-Jewish world ha\n never regarded any form of Jewish suffering important, except\n when the Jews were the models of the powerless victim holding\n the high moral ground, as it had been just after World War 2. \n However, as soon as the Jewish people started to take care of \n themselves, the ancient hatred of Jews was unleashed again. \n \n I doubt if the non-Jewish world is even capable of having any\n compassion towards Jews as anti-semitism is so ancient and so\n basic to both Christianity and Islam. \n \n Golda Meir said that there would be peace when the Arabs love\n their own children more than they hate the Jews. And while I\n know that there are more Arab parents who love their children \n than those who would send their children out into the streets \n to throw rocks at men trained to defend themselves with guns,\n the world is so obsessed by a hatred of Jews trying to defend \n themselves that they have yet to even question the actions of \n those parents who not simply allow their children to do this, \n but encourage them to throw themselves into harm's way. Even \n Arab children are expendable, if their tragic deaths are used \n in the neverending propoganda battle to blame Israel, and the \n Jews, for any misfortune befalling Arabs in the middle east.\n\n", " \n@ From: Kayhan Havai # 1026\n@ --------------------------\n@ \n@ o Dr. Namaki, deputy minister of health stated that infant\n@ mortality (under one year old) in Iran went down from 120 \n@ per thousand before the revolution to 33 per thousand at\n@ the end of 1371 (last month).\n@ \n@ o Dr Namaki also stated that before the revolution only\n@ 254f children received vaccinations to protect them\n@ from various deseases but this figure reached 93at\n@ the end of 1371.\n \nSomething funny happens to the percent sign. In paragraph\nabove, the vaccination rate went from 25 percent to 93 percent.\n \n - Farzin \n \n", "\n\nWell, you should have noted that I was cheering an attack on an Israeli \npatrol INSIDE Lebanese territory while I was condemning the \"retaliatory\"\nshelling of Lebanese villages by Israeli and Israeli-backed forces. My \"team\",\nyou see, was \"playing fair\" while the opposing team was rearranging the\nfaces of the spectators in my team's viewing stands, so to speak. \n\nI think that you should try to find more sources of news about what goes on\nin Lebanon and try to see through the propaganda. There are no a priori\nblack and white hats but one sure wonders how the IDF can bombard villages in \nretaliation to pin-point attacks on its soldiers in Lebanon and then call the\nLebanese terrorists.", "As we see right now, the position of influence enjoyed by parties favoring\nthe negotiation process is tenuous at best. The local \"elections\" in Hebron\nthat the PLO was expected to win (perhaps adding a bit to its flagging\nposition of \"legitimacy\" in the eyes of Palestinians and the Middle East)\nhave been disrupted by Hamas actions overtly directed towards\nundermining those (and all West Bank) elections. The present ruling Israeli \nLabor coalition seems to be one rather thin political ice. The Palestinian\ndelegation has been reduced from 14 to three to protest Israel \"lack of\nseriousness\" in the talks and refusal to reverse all the deportations\nimmediately.\n\nHopefully, however, each of the parties will begin to learn that just\nthe fact that negotiations are taking place *does not mean* they are giving \nanything away to \"the other side\" (which was/is the favorite argument of \nthe \"rejectionists\"). Let's hope that discusion and inevitable disagreement\non major issues leads at the same time to some agreement on smaller\n\"interim\" (\"phase\", whatever term we prefer) steps to be taken. \n\n\n\n", "THE WHITE HOUSE\n\n Office of the Press Secretary\n______________________________________________________________\nFor Immediate Release April 20, 1993 \n\n\t \n REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT\n IN PHOTO OPPORTUNITY WITH VACLAV HAVEL\n\t \n\t \n The Oval Office \n\t \n\n5:00 P.M. EDT\n\n\n\t Q\t Mr. President, President Havel is here for the \nHolocaust Museum opening, and you toured the museum last night. All \nthis focus on the Holocaust, how does that weigh on your decision-\nmaking process as far as Bosnia is concerned?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: Well, I think the Holocaust is the most \nextreme example the world has ever known of ethnic cleansing. And I \nthink that even in its more limited manifestations, it's an idea that \nshould be opposed. You couldn't help thinking about that. That's \nnot to compare the two examples. They're not identical; everyone \nknows that. But I think that the United States should always seek an \nopportunity to stand up against -- at least to speak out against \ninhumanity.\n\t \n\t Q\t Sir, how close are you to a decision on more \nsanctions on Bosnia?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: Well, of course, we've got the U.N. \nvote. Ambassador Albright was instrumental in the U.N. vote to \nstrengthen the sanctions and they are quite tough. And we now are \nputting our heads at the business of implementing them and looking at \nwhat other options we ought to consider. And I don't have anything \nelse to say, except to tell you that I spent quite a bit of time on \nit and will continue to over the next several days.\n\t \n\t Q\t Following your meeting today, sir, are you any \ncloser to some sort of U.S. military presence there?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: I have not made any decisions.\n\t \n * * * \n\t \n\t \n\t Q\t President Clinton, why have you decided to meet \nwith Mr. Havel?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: Well, I'm just honored that he would \ncome and see me. I'm glad he's here in the United States for the \ndedication of the Holocaust Museum. He is a figure widely admired in \nour country and around the world, and a very important person in \nEurope, and a very important person to the United States. So I'm \nhoping that we'll have a chance to talk about the new Czech republic \nand what kinds of things we can do together to support the causes we \nbelieve in.", "I flipped on my local Cable Access Channel (a channel where any\ncommunity member can broadcast whatever they want for about $50\nper half hour) and saw a \"documentary\" (I use this term loosely)\non the conflict in the West Bank.\n\nIt was apparently made with a hand held camcorder (the quality was\nterrible, and the camera was really jumpy). The documentary (sic)\ntold the tales of all of the children who died in the \"war\" against\nthe Jews as martyrs. \n\nIt was a regular sob story. One \"victimized youth\" was recounting\non how all he \"really\" wants to do is to get an education and that\nthe big bad Jews won't let him go to high school. He admittedly \nspent 4 years in prison (age 13 to 17) for murdering a Jewish woman\nbut claims that it was \"for the cause.\"\n\nI have seen this kind of garbage before. I have a lot of sympathy for\nthe Palestinian cause (as do many Jews), but I think that even many\nArabs would be ashamed to call this a documentary!\n\nThe most suprising part is that the only credits shown at the end\nwas an address for the makers of the film named JEWISH COMM. ON\nTHE MIDDLE EAST.\n\nAnybody heard of them? They make Peace Now look like right-wingers.\n", "\n[SB] Oh yeah, Israel was really ready to \"expand its borders\" on the holiest day\n[SB] of the year (Yom Kippur) when the Arabs attacked in 1973. Oh wait, you\n[SB] chose to omit that war...perhaps because it 100% supports the exact \n[SB] OPPOSITE to the point you are trying to make? I don't think that it's\n[SB] because it was the war that hit Israel the hardest. Also, in 1967 it was\n[SB] Egypt, not Israel who kicked out the UN force. In 1948 it was the Arabs\n[SB] who refused to accept the existance of Israel BASED ON THE BORDERS SET\n[SB] BY THE UNITED NATIONS. In 1956, Egypt closed off the Red Sea to Israeli\n[SB] shipping, a clear antagonistic act. And in 1982 the attack was a response\n[SB] to years of constant shelling by terrorist organizations from the Golan\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n[SB] Heights. Children were being murdered all the time by terrorists and Israel\n^^^^^^^^^^^^\n[SB] finally retaliated. Nowhere do I see a war that Israel started so that \n[SB] the borders could be expanded.\n\nI agree with all you write except that Terrorist orgs. were not shelling\nIsrael from the Golan Heights in 1982, but rather from Lebanon. The Golan\nHeights have been held by Israel since 1967, and therefore the PLO could\nnot have been shelling Israel from there, unless there is something I am\nnot aware of.\n\n\nTsiel", ": \n: THE HAMAS WAY of DEATH\n: \n: (Following is a transcript of a recruitment and training\n: videotape made last summer by the Qassam Battalions, the military\n\nAs opposed to Israel's many ways of death. Using bombers and artillery\nagainst Lebanese towns and villages. Using fire arms and lethal\nvariants of tear gas and *rubber coated* bullets against stone\nthrowers. Using tanks and anti-tank missiles against homes after a 5\nminute evacuation warning. Using Shin Bit's \"reasonable\" physical\npressure in interrogation. And more. Not counting of course past \npractices such as the bombardment of Beirut in 1982, the bombing of the \nEgyptian school of Bahr-El-Bakar and the Abu-Za'bal factory in 1978,\nthe downing of the Libyan airliner full of Egyptian passengers near\nthe same time. Overseeing the Maronite massacre in Sabra and Shatilla.\nThat is of course besides numerous massacres by Irgun and other gangs\nduring the British mandate period.\n\nIronically the same Op-Ed page in the NYT times from which the Naftaly\ncopied this article was running another article next to it by A.M.\nRosenthall blaming Bosnian Muslims for their own genocide by effectively\nsaying that it is stupid to seek independence if independence will bring\nyour people slaughter. But what else would one expect from Mr. Rosenthall\nwho never wasted a chance to bash Arabs or Muslims.", "The fact that Israel is already discussing with some Palestinians what the composition\nof the armed Palestinian Police Force in the territories will be during the transition\nphase indicates some real solid concessions and liberal thinking on the part of the\nIsraeli side.", "Sorry, ARF - you dog,\n\nThat news was suppressed because the Israeli national volleyball team\nrepeatedly spiked it.\n\nLet this be a lesson to others not to invoke the wrath of sports nuts.\n(Brits lead the way in this regard, with ~220 casualties in the last 2\nyears.)\n\nAnyway, Yigal would never sue. His life is (presumably) so pristine\nthat its most intimate details could be revealed without harm to\nanyone. Might even be good instruction for some people I can think of.", "\nI would change one of the many parts that define my cultural identity.\nIf I loose a leg, it might change my personality, but I do not\nstop being a human being. \nEven more, when someone gets a baboon heart, that person is still\nhuman.\n\n\nNot really. That is what differenciates agnostics from atheists.\nAs an atheist, I do not believe there is a god, nor do I believe that\nthere ever was one.\nSo, those commandments have no meaning to me. Also, there are a lot\nof ideas that have no meaning to me: The idea of a chosen people,\nthe idea of a given right to the land of Israel, the idea of keeping\nkosher, the idea of opposing intermarriage, the idea of having a \nTorah that was inspired by god, etc. \nBy being an atheist, I cannot support the idea of the Jewish Nation\nas defined by a religious principle or based on a religious identity.\nFor me, religion is just another piece in what constitutes the cultural\nidentity of the Jewish people. I believe that as a people with a \ncultural identity they constitute a Nation and have the same right as\nany other people in the world to have their own State. The same right\nas the Armenians have, as the Palestinians have, as the French have,\nand as anybody else have.\nI cannot say that by accepting a different god someone has lost all \ncultural identification. \n\n", "\n\n\n\n\tNot necessarily. As Shai points out, political appointments are\nbased on power. They are also based on favors owed, coalition\nbuilding, and deal making. While this may have a racist element to\nit, I think that its much more fair to attribute it to the \"old boy\"\nnature of politics. Now, I'll freely admit that the old boy system\nhas racist and sexist effects, but I don't think that those are its\npurpose, whether in the US, Israel, or elsewhere.\n\n\n\n\tHere again, you miss out on the old boy nature of politics,\nand the existance of back-room deals. As individuals, these arabs may\nnot be as well connected as the Jew who gets the job. I don't like\nthis aspect of politics, but I understand it exists.\n\nAdam\n\n\nAdam Shostack \t\t\t\t adam@das.harvard.edu", "\n\n\nThe imposed it knowing that Serbia has a stockpile of weapons, and that\nBosnia will have next to nothing to defend itself. Many experts predicted\na Massacre as early as March, 1992, but the Security Coucil knew what it\nwas doing.\n\n.......\n....\n....\n...\n..", "\nTimbo, Israel has not been recognized as a state by the Arabs, except for\nEgypt, of course. Isn't that a gesture? What has Israel offered?\nWell, it has been calling for peace talks for 45 years, asked for\neconomic relations, and asked for diplomatic ties. What else is there?\nWould you have Israel sacrifice its security? Nay, I think not.", "\tWhile dedicating the Holocaust Memorial Museum, President \nClinton remarked:\n\n\t``The evil represented in this museum is incontestable, \nbut as we are its witness, so must we remain its adversary in the \nworld in which we live, so we must stop the fabricators of history \nand the bullies as well.\"\n\n\tClinton made this comment shortly after giving Janet Reno \nthe go-ahead to hastily construct a gas chamber and crematorium\nin Waco... on the fiftieth anniversary of the Warsaw uprising.\n\n\tSay, wasn't Monday also the anniversary of Paul Revere's ride?\nIs that a clue?", "\n\n\n\nIf the attack was justified or not is at least debatable. But this is not the\nissue. The issue is that you were cheering DEATH. Read again your original\narticle. You find Israeli government responsible for those dead soldiers, that's\na reasonable (debatable) point, but feel satisfaction from dead bodies is \nNOT REASONABLE by any standards. No matter how you try to justify it.\nI may understand your frustration against israeli occupation in S Lebanon.\nBut no matter what you say, I can not understand your satisfaction for dead\nbodies.\n\nI have a question for you. Let's assume a bosnian village, inhabited by serbs\nuntill a few (10-20) years ago, and later taken over by bosnian muslims (the means\nare not very peaceful). Now, do you enjoy serbs coming and killing all (armed)\nbosnian muslims ? I would not enjoy, but I would not enjoy ANY dead bodies - \nisraelis, lebanese or bosnians.\n", "\nWho is the you Arabs here. Since you are replying to my article you\nare assuming that I am an Arab. Well, I'm not an Arab, but I think you\nare brain is full of shit if you really believe what you said. The\nbombardment of civilian and none civilian areas in Lebanon by Israel is\nvery consistent with its policy of intimidation. That is the only\npolicy that has been practiced by the so called only democracy in\nthe middle east!", "If the heading is true, Mr. Frank should be ashamed of himself.\n\nNothing makes me gag more than people who don't respect the\nrights of others to voice their opinions. My idol Lenny Bruce\nonce commented about \"that asshole Time Magazine\" when they\nadvocated censorship of his material. Time actually sided\nwith the cops' and their arresting of Bruce at his shows,\nwhereby he routinely would say \"cocksucker\", then the cops\nwould rush the stage to arrest him. My, how the times haven't\nchanged...\n\nI can't help but think of how Lenny would be received in today's\npolitically correct arena. Heck, I even support the right of\nneo nazis to speak their opinions and march down the streets.\n\nAnd before Mr. Frank or anyone else makes any wisecracks about\nanti-Semitism...I'm Jewish, a longtime member of AIPAC and the JNF,\nand have contributed over $1000 apiece to these fine groups. I'm\na regular contributor to every pro-Israel group I can find, but I\nstill support the right of people like Arf to speak up and vomit\nhis propaganda.\n\nI want to know just WHO these people are !!!\n\nI'm basing all this on the assumption that Mr. Frank did indeed\nwrite to some sysadmin requesting Mr. Teel to be admonished. If\nthis is not the case, I hereby retract these nasties directed\ntoward him. If not, I stand against Mr. Frank and his trashing\nof the First Amendment.", "Ten Questions about arab countries\n----------------------------------\n\nI would be thankful if any of you who live in arab countries could\nhelp to provide accurate answers to the following specific questions.\nThese are indeed provocative questions but they are asked time and\nagain by people around me.\n\n1. Is it true that many arab countries don't recognize\nIsraeli nationality ? That people with Israeli stamps on their\npassports can't enter arabic countries?\n\n2. Is it true that arabic countries such as Jordan and Syria\nhave undefined borders and that arab governments from 1948 until today\nhave refused to state where the ultimate borders of their states\nshould be?\n\n3. Is it true that arab countires refused to sign the Chemical\nweapon convention treaty in Paris in 1993?\n\n4. Is it true that in arab prisons there are a number of\nindividuals which were tried in secret and for which their\nidentities, the date of their trial and their imprisonment are\nstate secrets ?\n\n4a.\tIs it true that some arab countries, like Syria, harbor Nazi\nwar criminals, and refuse to extradite them?\n\n4b.\tIs it true that some arab countries, like Saudi Arabia,\nprohibit women from driving cars?\n\n5. Is it true that Jews who reside in the Muslim\ncountries are subject to different laws than Muslims?\n\n6. Is it true that arab countries confiscated the property of\nentire Jewish communites forced to flee by anti-Jewish riots?\n\n7. Is it true that Israel's Prime Minister, Y. Rabin, signed\na chemical weapons treaty that no arab nation was willing to sign?\n\n8. Is it true that Syrian Jews are required to leave a $10,000\ndeposit before leaving the country, and are no longer allowed to\nemmigrate, despite promises made by Hafez Assad to George Bush?\n\n9.\t Is it true that Jews in Muslim lands are required to pay a\nspecial tax, for being Jews?\n\n10. Is it true that Intercontinental Hotel in Jerusalem was built\non a Jewish cemetary, with roads being paved over grave sites, and\ngravestones being used in Jordanian latrines?\n\n11.\tIs it really cheesy and inappropriate to post lists of biased\nleading questions?\n\n11a.\tIs it less appropriate if information implied in Mr.\nDavidsson's questions is highly misleading?\n\nAdam\n\nAdam Shostack \t\t\t\t adam@das.harvard.edu", "\n\nOh, why do you expose your ignorance? The US has been running on debt for \nthe past four generations and has still financed what it pleases.\n\nAnd after the Gulf War, Israel could do whatever it wanted after\nnot decimating Iraq after the Scud attacks. It was encouraged, but\nby no means forced, to negotiate.\n\nMr. Baker, to address all of your points would be impossible, but in a \nnutshell, it is hypocritical for you to attack Israel's presence in\nLebanon without attacking Syria. Syrian occupation has been hostile,\nand amounts to annexation. Israel's is clearly defensive. If it \nwere not defensive, you would see all of Lebanon occupied, and governed by\nIsrael. But that is not what Israel wants.\n", "\n\nOf course, it hasn't. Besides Egypt, the rest of the Arab world still\nofficially denies that Israel exists.\n\n\nKick out Syria?\n\n\nAmerican-Occupied Lebanon? That's a new one on me!\n", "\nRight now, I'm just going to address this point.\nWhen the Jewish National Fund bought most of its land,\nIt didn't buy it from the Palestinians themselves, because,\nfor the most part, they were tenant farmers (fallahin),\nliving on land owned by wealthy Arabs in Syria and Lebanon.\nThe JNF offered a premium deal, so the owners took advantage of\nit. It's called commerce. The owners, however, made no \nprovisions for those who had worked for them, basically shafting \nthem by selling the land right out from under them.\nThey are to blame, not the Jews.\n\n", "\nWhile you brought up the separate question of Israel's unjustified\npolicies and practices, I am still unclear about your reaction to\nthe practices and polocies reflected in the article above.", "\n\n\tYou mean he talks about those Jews, who, because of their self\nhatred, spend all their time attacking Judaism, Jews, and Israel,\nusing the most despicable of anti-Semetic stereotypes?\n\n\tI don't think we need to coin a term like \"Jedeo-Nazism\" to\nrefer to those Jews who, in their endless desire to be accepted by the\nNazis, do their dirty work for them. We can just call them house\nJews, fools, or anti-Semites from Jewish families.\n\n\tI think \"house Jews,\" a reference to a person of Jewish\nancestry who issues statements for a company or organization that\ncondemn Judaism is perfectly sufficeint. I think a few years free of\ntheir anti-Semetic role models would do wonders for most of them.\n\nAdam\n\nAdam Shostack \t\t\t\t adam@das.harvard.edu", "\n Final Solution for the Gaza ghetto ?\n ------------------------------------\n\n While Israeli Jews fete the uprising of the Warsaw ghetto, they\n repress by violent means the uprising of the Gaza ghetto and\n attempt to starve the Gazans.\n\n [...]\n\nElias should the families of the children who were stabbed in their\nhigh school by a Palestinian \"freedom fighter\" be the ones who offer\ntheir help to the Gazans. Perhaps it should be the families of the 18\nIsraelis who were murdered last month by Palestinian \"freedom\nfighters\".\n\nThe Jews in the Warsaw ghetto were fighting to keep themselves and\ntheir families from being sent to Nazi gas chambers. Groups like Hamas\nand the Islamic Jihad fight with the expressed purpose of driving all\nJews into the sea. Perhaps, we should persuade Jewish people to help\nthese wnderful \"freedom fighters\" attain this ultimate goal.\n\nMaybe the \"freedom fighters\" will choose to spare the co-operative Jews.\nIs that what you are counting on, Elias - the pity of murderers.\n\nYou say your mother was Jewish. How ashamed she must be of her son. I\nam sorry, Mrs. Davidsson.", "\nI do not want to convince anyone. This is just USENET, not the real\nworld. I just read the opinions others have about a subject, and sometimes\nI present my opinion. I think that this net is only useful to exchange\nideas. I never wanted nor I want now to convince anyone of anything.\n\n\n\nFirst, and I repeat it, I never said that the idea of Jews having the\nright to have a State is racist.\nZionism, as a movement, is more than just that idea. I think that Zionism\nin the way it defines who is a Jew, for example, is racist-like.\nIn the same way I believe that Irish have a right to nationalism but I do\nnot support the bombing and killing of the IRA, I believe that Jews have\na right to nationalism but I do not support Zionism as it is right now.\n\n\nThat is what makes the basis for Zionist movements. However, I am not \nconsidering just that, but the rest of it. \n\n\nWhich makes an interesting point. People living in a Jewish State have\nshown that Jewish culture includes in it Jewish religion but they are\nnot the same. So, the Jewish people living in the Jewish State have shown \nus that there are some problems in a State where 80% of the people is secular\nbut Judaism is define according to religious standards, or where marriage\nis a religious stage, or where the Law of Return defines a Jew according to\na religious standard.\nDid those Israelis who do not believe in god and will never do become \nnon-Jews? Why should they still define then a Jew based on what is a \nreligious definition?\n\n\n\n\n\nAccording to Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary, Merriam-Webster Inc,\nPublishers, Springfield, Massachusetts, U.S.A., 1986, page 593, \n\nhy-poc-ri-sy: A feigning to be what one is nnot or to believe one does not.\n\nSo, saying that one believes in Zionism as a simple matter of people \nhaving the right to nationalism, but disregarding the right of the Palestinian\npeople to do the same, according to this dictionary, is hypocrisy.\n\n\n\nI know what my words mean. I do stand by what I said I believe: Zionism is\na form of racism. Of course, I tend to talk about things as they are and\nnot as they are defined in a broad sense.\n\n\n", "NEWS YOU MAY HAVE MISSED, APR 19, 1993\n \n Not because you were too busy but because\n Israelists in the US media spiked it.\n \n ................\n \n \n THOSE INTREPID ISRAELI SOLDIERS\n \n \n Israeli soldiers have sexually taunted Arab women in the occupied Gaza Strip \n during the three-week-long closure that has sealed Palestinians off from the \n Jewish state, Palestinian sources said on Sunday.\n \n The incidents occurred in the town of Khan Younis and involved soldiers of\n the Golani Brigade who have been at the centre of house-to-house raids for\n Palestinian activists during the closure, which was imposed on the strip and\n occupied West Bank.\n \n Five days ago girls at the Al-Khansaa secondary said a group of naked\n soldiers taunted them, yelling: ``Come and kiss me.'' When the girls fled, \n the soldiers threw empty bottles at them.\n \n On Saturday, a group of soldiers opened their shirts and pulled down their\n pants when they saw girls from Al-Khansaa walking home from school. Parents \n are considering keeping their daughters home from the all-girls school.\n \n The same day, soldiers harassed two passing schoolgirls after a youth\n escaped from them at a boys' secondary school. Deputy Principal Srur \n Abu-Jamea said they shouted abusive language at the girls, backed them \n against a wall, and put their arms around them.\n \n When teacher Hamdan Abu-Hajras intervened the soldiers kicked him and beat\n him with the butts of their rifles.\n \n On Tuesday, troops stopped a car driven by Abdel Azzim Qdieh, a practising\n Moslem, and demanded he kiss his female passenger. Qdieh refused, the \n soldiers hit him and the 18-year-old passenger kissed him to stop the \n beating.\n \n On Friday, soldiers entered the home of Zamno Abu-Ealyan, 60, blindfolded\n him and his wife, put a music tape on a recorder and demanded they dance. As\n the elderly couple danced, the soldiers slipped away. The coupled continued\n dancing until their grandson came in and asked what was happening.\n \n The army said it was checking the reports.\n \n ....................\n \n \n ISRAELI TROOPS BAR CHRISTIANS FROM JERUSALEM\n \n Israeli troops prevented Christian Arabs from entering Jerusalem on Thursday \n to celebrate the traditional mass of the Last Supper.\n \n Two Arab priests from the Greek Orthodox church led some 30 worshippers in\n prayer at a checkpoint separating the occupied West Bank from Jerusalem after\n soldiers told them only people with army-issued permits could enter.\n \n ``Right now, our brothers are celebrating mass in the Church of the Holy\n Sepulchre and we were hoping to be able to join them in prayer,'' said Father\n George Makhlouf of the Ramallah Parish.\n \n Israel sealed off the occupied lands two weeks ago after a spate of\n Palestinian attacks against Jews. The closure cut off Arabs in the West Bank\n and Gaza Strip from Jerusalem, their economic, spiritual and cultural centre.\n \n Father Nicola Akel said Christians did not want to suffer the humiliation\n of requesting permits to reach holy sites.\n \n Makhlouf said the closure was discriminatory, allowing Jews free movement\n to take part in recent Passover celebrations while restricting Christian\n celebrations.\n \n ``Yesterday, we saw the Jews celebrate Passover without any interruption.\n But we cannot reach our holiest sites,'' he said.\n \n An Israeli officer interrupted Makhlouf's speech, demanding to see his\n identity card before ordering the crowd to leave.\n \n ...................\n \n \n \n If you are as revolted at this as I am, drop Israel's best friend email and \n let him know what you think.\n \n \n 75300.3115@compuserve.com (via CompuServe)\n clintonpz@aol.com (via America Online)\n clinton-hq@campaign92.org (via MCI Mail)\n \n \n Tell 'em ARF sent ya.\n \n ..................................\n \n If you are tired of \"learning\" about American foreign policy from what is \n effectively, Israeli controlled media, I highly recommend checking out the \n Washington Report. A free sample copy is available by calling the American \n Education Trust at:\n (800) 368 5788\n \n Tell 'em arf sent you.", "\nI did say *any* invader, didn't I? What do you want from me, perhaps a neural\nnet design with all countries involved in Lebanon as its nodes? :-) (You are\nin Cognitive and Neural Systems)", "\n\nI didnot know that \"Master of wisdom\" can be \"name clling\" too,\nunless you consider yourself deserve-less !\n\n\nThat was only to confuse you! (ha ha ha hey )\n\n\t ^^^^^^^ are you trying to retaliate and confuse me here.\n\n\nFirst, my above statement doesnot say that \"the existence of israeli citizens\nin the WB revoke their right of life\" but it says \"the israeli occupation\nof the WB revoke the right of life for some/most its citizens - basically\nrevokes the right of for its military men\". Clearly, occupation is an\nundeclared war; during war, attacks against military targets are fully legitimate. \n\nSecondly, surely israeli have human rights, but they ask their goverment to\nprotect it by withdrawing from the occupied terretories, not by further oppressing\nPalestinean human rights.\n\n\n\n\nBecause not all states are like Israel, as oppressive, as ignorant, or as tyrant.\n\n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nSo you agree that that an israeli solution wouldnot preserve human rights.\n(i am understanding this from your first statement in this paragraph).\n\n\nExactly, you are right. I guess that the problem is that the israeli goverment \nis full with men like Joseph Weitz. \n\n\n\nAbove you wrote that you understood what i meant (underlined by ^ ): \nany system can be used to solve the conflict , but not any system would \nresolve it JUSTLY.\n\n\nYou are proving yourself as a \" \". First you understood what i meant, but then\nyou claim you didnot so to claim a contradiction in my logic. Too bad for you, \nthe Master of Wisdom.\n\n\n\nWhy do you feel ashamed by things and facts that you believe in , if you were a\nZionists. If you believe in Zionist codes and acts, well i feel sorry for you,\nbecause the same Rabbi Shoham had said \"Yes, Zionism is racism\".\nIf you feel ashamed and bothered by the Zionist codes, then drop Zionism.\nIf you are not Zionist, why are you bothered then. You should join me in\ncondemning these racist Zionist codes and acts.\n\nHasan\n\n", "\n\nThere are many neutral human rights organizations which always report\non the situation in the O.T. But, as most people used to see on TV, the\nIsraelis do not allow them to go deep there in the O.T. The Israelis \nused to arrest and sometimes to kill some of these neutral reporters. \nSo, this is another kind of terrorism committed by the Jews in Palestine.\nThey do not allow fair and neutral coverage of the situation in Palestine.\n", "THE WHITE HOUSE\n \n Office of the Press Secretary\n \n _______________________________________________________________\n \n For Immediate Release\t \t \t April 14, 1993\n \n \n TEXT OF A LETTER FROM THE PRESIDENT\n TO THE SPEAKER OF THE\n HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AND\n THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE OF THE SENATE\n \n \n April 13, 1993\n \n \n Dear Mr. Speaker: (Dear Mr. President:)\n \n As part of my continuing effort to keep the Congress fully \n informed, I am providing this report, consistent with section 4 \n of the War Powers Resolution, to advise you of actions that I \n have ordered in support of the United Nations efforts in \n Bosnia-Herzegovina.\n \n Beginning with U.N. Security Council Resolution 713 of \n September 25, 1991, the United Nations has been actively \n addressing the crisis in the former Yugoslavia. The Security \n Council acted in Resolution 781 to establish a ban on all \n unauthorized military flights over Bosnia-Herzegovina. There \n have, however, been blatant violations of the ban, and villages \n in Bosnia have been bombed.\n \n In response to these violations, the Security Council decided, \n in Resolution 816 of March 31, 1993, to extend the ban to all \n unauthorized flights over Bosnia-Herzegovina and to authorize \n Member States, acting nationally or through regional organi-\n zations, to take all necessary measures to ensure compliance. \n NATO's North Atlantic Council (NAC) agreed to provide NATO air \n enforcement for the no-fly zone. The U.N. Secretary General \n was notified of NATO's decision to proceed with Operation DENY \n FLIGHT, and an activation order was delivered to participating \n allies.\n \n The United States actively supported these decisions. At my \n direction, the Joint Chiefs of Staff sent an execute order to \n all U.S. forces participating in the NATO force, for the conduct \n of phased air operations to prevent flights not authorized by \n the United Nations over Bosnia-Herzegovina. The U.S. forces \n initially assigned to this operation consist of 13 F-15 and \n 12 F-18A fighter aircraft and supporting tanker aircraft. \n These aircraft commenced enforcement operations at 8:00 a.m. \n e.d.t. on April 12, 1993. The fighter aircraft are equipped for \n combat to accomplish their mission and for self-defense.\n \n NATO has positioned forces and has established combat air \n patrol (CAP) stations within the control of Airborne Early \n Warning (AEW) aircraft. The U.S. CAP aircraft will normally \n operate from bases in Italy and from an aircraft carrier in the \n Adriatic Sea. Unauthorized aircraft entering or approaching \n the no-fly zone will be identified, interrogated, intercepted, \n escorted/monitored, and turned away (in that order). If these \n steps do not result in compliance with the no-fly zone, such \n aircraft may be engaged on the basis of proper authorization by \n NATO military authorities and in accordance with the approved \n \n more\n \n \t \t \t \t \t \t (OVER)\n\f\n 2\n \n rules of engagement, although we do not expect such action will \n be necessary. The Commander of UNPROFOR (the United Nations \n Protection Force currently operating in Bosnia-Herzegovina) was \n consulted to ensure that his concerns for his force were fully \n considered before the rules of engagement were approved.\n \n It is not possible to predict at this time how long such \n operations will be necessary. I have directed U.S. armed forces \n to participate in these operations pursuant to my constitutional \n authority as Commander in Chief. I am grateful for the con-\n tinuing support that the Congress has given to this effort, and \n I look forward to continued cooperation as we move forward \n toward attainment of our goals in this region.\n \n \t \t \t \tSincerely,\n \n \n \n \n \t \t \t \tWILLIAM J. CLINTON\n \n \n ", "From: Center for Policy Research \nSubject: Zionist leaders' frank statements\n\nThe following are quotations from Zionist leaders. They appear in\nnumerous scholarly works dealing with the Palestine question. I urge those\nwho have access to original sources, to verify the authenticity of the\nsource and post here their finding, adhering to the truth whatever it be.\nThanks.\nElias Davidsson\n------------------------------\n\nQuotations from Zionist leaders\n\n1. \"There was no such thing as Palestinians\"\n(Golda Meir, Prime Minister of Israel, London Sunday \nTimes, 15 June 1969)\n\n2. \"There is, however, a difficulty from which the Zionist \ndares not avert his eyes, though he rarely likes to face it. \nPalestine proper has already its inhabitants.\"\n(Israel Zangwill, The Voice of Jerusalem, London 1920, \np.88)\n\n3. \"When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be \nable to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged \ncockroaches in a bottle.\"\n(Raphael Eitan, Israeli Chief of Staff, New York Times, 14 \nApril 1983)\n\n4. \"[The Palestinians are] beasts walking on two legs.\"\n(Menachem Begin, Prime Minister of Israel in a speech to \nthe Knesset,\nquoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, 'Begin and the \"Beasts\", New \nStatesman, 25 June 1982)\n\n5. \"Both the process of expropriation [of the Palestinians] \nand the removal of the poor must be carried out \ndiscreetly and circumspectly\".\n(Dr. Theodor Herzl, The Complete Diaries, Herzl Press, \n1960, I., p.88)\n\n6. \"Between ourselves it must be clear that there is no \nroom for both people together in this country...The only \nsolution is a Palestine.....without Arabs. And there is no \nother way than to transfer the Arabs from here to the \nneighboring countries, to transfer all of them; not one \nvillage, not one tribe, should be left.\"\n(Joseph Weitz, Jewish National Fund, administrator \nresponsible for Zionist colonization. Davar, 29 September \n1967).\n\n7.\"We shall try to spirit the penniless population [the \nPalestinians] across the border by procuring employment \nfor it in the transit countries, while denying it any \nemployment in our own country\"\n(Theodor Herzl, The Complete Diaries, Herzl Press, 1960, \nI, p.88)\n\n8. \"[Zionists]...looked for means...to cause the tens of \nthousands of sulky Arabs who remained in the Galilee to \nflee...I gathered all the Jewish muktars, who have contact \nwith Arabs in different villages and asked them to \nwhisper in the ears of some Arabs that a great Jewish \nreinforcement has arrived in Galilee and that it is going \nto burn all of the villages of the Huleh. They should \nsuggest to these Arabs, as their friends, to escape while \nthere is still time....The tactic reached its goal....wide \nareas were cleaned.\"\n\n(Yig'al Alon, Sepher Ha Palmach, in Hebrew, II. p.268, \nquoted in Khalidi, From Haven to Conquest, IPS, 1971).\n\n10. \"[Jews] must expel Arabs and take their place\" \n(David Ben Gurion, 1937, quoted in Shabtai Teveth, Ben \nGurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, \n1985, p. 89)\n\n11. \"We must do everything to ensure they [the \nPalestinian refugees] never do return\"\n(David Ben Gurion, in his diary, 19 July 1948, quoted in \nMichael Bar Zohar, Ben Gurion: The Armed Prophet, \nPrentice-Hall, 1967, p.157)\n\n12. \"The country was mostly an empty desert, with only \na few islands of Arab settlement\"\n(Shimon Peres, Minister of Defense, quoted in David's \nSling: The Arming of Israel, Weidenfeld and Nicholson, \n1970, p.249)\n\n13. \"All this story about the danger of extermination [of \nJews] has been blown up....to justify the annexation of \nnew Arab territories\"\n(Mordechai Bentov, Israeli Cabinet Minister, Al \nHamishmar, 14 April 1972)\n\n14. \"Neither Jewish ethics nor Jewish tradition can \ndisqualify terrorism as a means of combat\"\n(Yitzhak Shamir, Hehazit, Summer 1943 [Journal of the \nLEHI, the Stern Gang], translated from the Israeli daily \nAl-Hamishmar, 24 December 1987\n\n14. \"The domination of Jewish agriculture by Arab \nworkers is a cancer in our body\"\n(A. Uzan, Israeli Minister of Agriculture, Ha'aretz, 13 \nDecember 1974)\n\n15. \"There can be only one national home in Palestine, \nand that a Jewish one, and no equality in the partnership \nbetween Jews and Arabs\"\n(Montague David Eder, President of the Zionist \nFederation of Great Britain, 1931,\nin Doreen Ingrams, comp., Palestine Papers 1917-1922, \nSeeds of Conflict, George Braziller, 1973, p. 135)\n\n16. \"I hope that the Jewish frontiers of Palestine will be \nas great as Jewish energy for getting Palestine\"\n(Dr. Chaim Weizmann, first President of the State of \nIsrael, Excerpts from His Historic Statements, Writings \nand Addresses, Jewish Agency for Palestine, 1952, p.48)\n\n17. \"There is not a single Jewish village in this country \nthat has not been built on the site of an Arab village\"\n(Moshe Dayan, Ha'aretz, 4 April 1969...)\n\n18. \"Some people talk of expelling 700,000 to 800,000 \nArabs in the event of a new war, and instruments have \nbeen prepared\"\n(Aharon Yariv, former chief of Israeli military \nintelligence, 1980, Inquiry, 8 December 1980)\n\n19. \"If I was an Arab leader I would never make [peace] \nwith Israel. That is natural: we have taken their \ncountry.\"\n(David Ben Gurion, in Nahum Goldmann, The Jewish \nParadox, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1978, p.99)\n\n20. \"We should there [in Palestine] form a portion of the \nrampart of Europe against Asia, an outpost of civilization \nas opposed to barbarism.\"\n(Dr. Theodor Herzl, The Jewish State, London, 1896, p. \n29)\n\n21. \"I deeply believe in launching preventive war \nagainst the Arab States without further hesitation. By \ndoing so we will achieve two targets: firstly, the \nannihilation of Arab power; and secondly, the expansion \nof our territory\"\n(Menachem Begin, in a speech to the Knesset, 12 October \n1955)\n\n22. \"During the last 100 years our people have been in a \nprocess of building up the country and the nation, of \nexpansion, of getting additional Jews and additional \nsettlements in order to expand the borders here. Let no \nJew say that the process has ended. Let no Jew say that \nwe are near the end of the road.\"\n(Moshe Dayan, Ma'ariv, 7 July 1968)\n\n23. \"Until the British left, no Jewish settlement, however \nremote, was entered or seized by the Arabs, while the \nHaganah, under severe and frequent attack, captured \nmany Arab positions and liberated Tiberias and Haifa, \nJaffa and Safad\"\n(David Ben Gurion, Rebirth and Destiny of Israel, \nPhilosophical Library, 1954, p.530)\n\n24. \"In the months preceding the Arab invasion [of \n1948], and while the five Arab states were conducting \npreparations, we continued to make sallies into Arab \nterritory. The conquest of Jaffa stands out as an event of \nfirst-rate importance in the struggle for Hebrew \nindependence early in May, on the eve of the invasion \nby the five Arab states.\"\n(Menachem Begin, The Revolt, Nash, 1972, p.348)\n\n25. \"What the French could do in Tunisia, I said, the Jews \nwould be able to do in Palestine with Jewish will, Jewish \nmoney, Jewish power and Jewish enthusiasm\"\n(Dr. Chaim Weizmann, First President of the State of \nIsrael, Trial and Error, Harper, 1949, p.244)\n\n26. \"I do not think Nasser wanted war. The two divisions \nhe sent to the Sinai on May 14 [1967] would not have \nbeen sufficient to launch an offensive against Israel. He \nknew it and we knew it.\"\n(Yitzhak Rabin, Le Monde, 29 February 1968)\n\n27. \"To pretend that the Egyptian forces massed on our \nfrontiers [in 1967] were in position to threaten the \nexistence of Israel constitutes an insult not only to the \nintelligence of anyone capable of analyzing this sort of \nsituation, but above all an insult to the Zahal [Israeli \narmy]\"\n(General Res. Matti Peled, Ha'aretz, 19 March 1972)\n\n28. \"when we have broken the strength of the Arab \nLegion and bombarded Amman, we would wipe out \nTransjordan; after that Syria would fall....we would thus \nend the war, and would have put paid to Egypt, Assyria \nand Chaldea on behalf of our ancestors\"\n(David Ben Gurion in his diaries, quoted in Michael Bar-\nZohar, The Armed Prophet, A Biography of Ben-Gurion, \nPrentice-Hall, 1967, p.139)\n\n29. \"These Jews of the Diaspora would like to see us, for \ntheir own reasons, heroes with our backs to the wall. But \nthis wish can in no way change the realities.\"\n(Israeli General Ezer Weizmann, Le Monde, 3 June 1972)", "\n\n\nAll Muslims knew that the whole thing was set up to destroy Iraq, not\nto \"Liberate Kuwait\", The people who were killed by the invasion are\nmore (many many more), than the ones that were killed by the Iraqis\nin their smaller invasion. I lived in the west, and I have seen how \nyour media prepared you (helpless naive Americans) for a war against\nIraq even before the artificial conflict between Iraq and Kuwait that\nled to the invasion, as the CIA correctly predicted (and pretended to\nbe surprised not to know).\nIt just happened that Saddam was so predictible and so arrogant and stupid.\n\nWhat would I have done: Most Muslims would choose 300 dead Kuwaitis over\n200,000 dead Iraqis and 1000 dead Kuwaitis. The first case would happen\nif no western intervention happened, and the second case was a direct\nor indirect result of western envolvement.\n\nHuman rights in Kuwait? what about human rights in Iraq? why the west\ngave Saddam a green light to slaughter his own people? I will give my\nreason: because the rich Kuwaitis do not mind to be your salves, so\nthey deserve some democracy, but Iraqis might not, so they don't.\n\nAs simple as that, whether or not you want to admit it.\n\n\nNot necessarily the best solution, my view of an Islamic state (and\nthat of Turabi that your media made you hate) includes all the benefits\nof a secular state minus the injustices. Did you ever read a book by\nRashid Al-Ghannoushi (Tunisia), Hassan Turabi (Sudan)? You only know\nabout them from your Self-censured, self-controlled media.\n\nIf they make this kind of campaign against such a moderate thinker as\nTurabi is, and keep quite about such an extremist Muslim scholar as Bin\nBez of Saudi Arabia is, it just does not encourage any moderation in\nour ARab world.\n\n\nNo it was not that, it was just some irrelevent stuff that I took out\nto go around the copyright (;-))\n\nI ceased to take the Newyork times seriously. In issues concerning Islam\nit has become one of the biggest enemies (although less than the other\nNewYork daily since Mortimer took it over). It lies, selects facts that\nfits its agenda and even prints racist and open anti-Muslim editorials.\n\nWhat they claimed in that articles is a bunch of lies because while \nthe selected facts are true about some of those persons, the other members\nare actually defence lawyers and University science professors who wanted\nto fight corruption, uncover atrocities against opposition activists and\nShia minority, and generally increase awareness about the rights of all \ncitizens. The only thing that is common between those people is their concern\nfor the deterioration of human rights since the Saudi clan took a green\nlight from AMerica (after the gulf) to do whatever is necessary to stay\nin power. \n\n\nDo you know that ALL OF THE SAUDI ULEMA have been taught the same things?\nthe ones in the official Iftaa are as conservative as the ones that are\nopposing it. SOme of the members of the human rights committe are MORE\nPRO-WOMEN and wanted to defend them, and that is precisely one reason that\nBin Bez's Fatwah implied for the \"Illegality \" of this committee\nand for his claim that it represents \"Outside interests\"\n\nThere is a human rights issue in Saudi ARabia, and YOU and NY times chose\nto ignore the main issue and select some of the members of that committee\nand actually defend the actions done against them (including banning them\nfrom their Jobs.\n\nWhat a hypocricy. I am not surprised really, THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME.\n\nThe official Ulema are the most extremist anti-women meat-heads in Saudi\nArabia, the west continues on its campaign to discredit itself in the\nMuslim community, by supporting them. Well after Bosnia, I guess it has\nZERO credibility to begin with, so what the heck.", "\n[....]\n\nThanks Jon. I had forgotten about the 1912 and 1927 invasions (if I had\never learned of them. I mean I *really* forgot!) But I read the context\nas more recent, such as when the Sandinistas were expecting an \"imminent\"\ninvasion from the U.S. which never happened.\n\nI stand corrected. Thanks.\n\n\nI remembered this one. This one and Bush's invasion were the two I\nmentioned above. Good ol' Teddy R.-- he knew how to get things done!\n\n\nRegards,", "\n\n\nYou're just beginning to scratch the surface. Do you know how much\nmilitary equipment costs? When was the last time you tried to buy a\nmil-spec hammer, coffee-pot or toilet seat? \n\nPaying Israel to do the dirty work on it's own without putting\nAmerican soldiers's lives on the line is much, much, much cheaper than\nUncle Sam's arrangements with much of the rest of the world.\n", "RE: Red, wwhite, and black, the colors of the Imperial German war-flag --", "From: Center for Policy Research \nSubject: Symbiotics: Zionism-Antisemitism\n\n\nZionism and the Holocaust\n-------------------------- by Haim Bresheeth\n\nThe first point to note regarding the appropriation of the history\nof the Holocaust by Zionist propaganda is that Zionism without\nanti-semitism is impossible. Zionism agrees with the basic tenet\nof anti-Semitism, namely that Jews cannot live with non- Jews.\n\nThe history and roots of the Holocaust go back a long way. While\nthe industru of death and destruction did not operate before 1942,\nits roots were firmly placed in the 19th Century. Jewish\naspirations for emancipation emerged out of the national struggles\nin Europe. When the hopes for liberation through\nbourgeois-democratic change were dashed, other alternatives for\nimproving the lot of the Jews of Europe achieved prominence.\n\nThe socialist Bund, a mass movement with enormous following, had\nto contend with opposition from a new and small, almost\ninsignificant opponent, the political Zionists. In outline these\ntwo offered diametrically opposed options for Jews in Europe.\nWhile the Bund was suggesting joining forces with the rest of\nEurope's workers, the Zionists were proposing a new programme\naimed at ridding Europe of its Jews by setting up some form of a\nJewish state.\n\nHistorically, nothing is inevitable, all depends on the balance of\nforces involved in the struggle. History can be seen as an option\ntree: every time a certain option is chosen, other routes become\nbarred. Because of that choice, movement backwards to the point\nbefore that choice was made is impossible. While Zionism as an\noption was taken by many young Jews, it remained a minority\nposition until the first days of the 3rd Reich. The Zionist\nFederation of Germany (ZVfD), an organisation representing a tiny\nminority of German Jews, was selected by the Nazis as the body to\nrepresent the Jews of the Reich. Its was the only flag of an\ninterantional organisation allowed to fly in Berlin, and this was\nthe only international organisation allowed to operate during this\nperiod. From a marginal position, the leaders of the Zionist\nFederation were propelled to a prominence and centrality that\nsurprised even them. All of a sudden they attained political\npower, power based not on representation, but from being selected\nas the choice of the Nazi regime for dealing with the the 'Jewish\nproblem'. Their position in negotiating with the Nazis agreements\nthat affected the lives of many tens of thousands of the Jews in\nGermany transformed them from a utopian, marginal organisation in\nGermany (and some other countries in Europe) into a real option to\nbe considered by German Jews.\n\nThe best example of this was the 'Transfer Agreement' of 1934.\nImmediately after the Nazi takeover in 1933, Jews all over the\nworld supported or were organising a world wide boycott of German\ngoods. This campaign hurt the Nazi regime and the German\nauthorities searched frantically for a way disabling the boycott.\nIt was clear that if Jews and Jewish organisations were to pull\nout, the campaign would collapse.\n\nThis problem was solved by the ZVfD. A letter sent to the Nazi\nparty as early as 21. June 1933, outlined the degree of agreement\nthat existed between the two organisations on the question of\nrace, nation, and the nature of the 'Jewish problem', and it\noffered to collaborate with the new regime:\n\n\"The realisation of Zionism could only be hurt by resentment of\nJews abroad against the German development. Boycott propaganda -\nsuch as is currently being carried out against Germany in many\nways - is in essence unZionist, because Zionism wants not to do\nbattle but to convince and build.\"\n\nIn their eagerness to gain credence and the backing of the new\nregime, the Zionist organisation managed to undermine the boycott.\nThe main public act was the signature of the \"Transfer Agreement\"\nwith the Nazi authorities during the Zionist Congress of 1934. In\nessence, the agreement was designed to get Germany's Jews out of\nthe country and into Mandate Palestine. It provided a possibility\nfor Jews to take a sizeable part of their property out of the\ncountry, through a transfer of German goods to Palestine. This\nright was denied to Jews leaving to any other destination. The\nZionist organisation was the acting agent, through its financial\norganisations. This agreement operated on a number of fronts -\n'helping' Jews to leave the country, breaking the ring of the\nboycott, exporting German goods in large quantities to Palestine,\nand last but not least, enabling the regime to be seen as humane\nand reasonable even towards its avowed enemies, the Jews. After\nall, they argued, the Jews do not belong in Europe and now the\nJews come and agree with them.\n\nAfter news of the agreement broke, the boycott was doomed. If the\nZionist Organization found it possible and necessary to deal with\nthe Nazis, and import their goods, who could argue for a boycott ?\nThis was not the first time that the interests of both movements\nwere presented to the German public as complementary. Baron Von\nMildenstein, the first head of the Jewish Department of the SS,\nlater followed by Eichmann, was invited to travel to Palestine.\nThis he did in early 1933, in the company of a Zionist leader,\nKurt Tuchler. Having spent six months in Palestine, he wrote a\nseries of favourable articles in Der STURMER describing the 'new\nJew' of Zionism, a Jew Nazis could accept and understand.\n\nThis little-known episode established quite clearly the\nrelationship during the early days of Nazism, between the new\nregime and the ZVfD, a relationship that was echoed later in a\nnumber of key instances, even after the nature of the Final\nSolution became clear. In many cases this meant a silencing of\nreports about the horrors of the exterminations. A book\nconcentrating on this aspect of the Zionist reaction to the\nHolocaust is Post-Ugandan Zionism in the Crucible of the\nHolocaust, by S. B. Beth-Zvi.\n\nIn the case of the Kastner episode, around which Jim Allen's play\nPERDITION is based, even the normal excuse of lack of knowledge of\nthe real nature of events does not exist. It occured near the end\nof the war. The USSR had advanced almost up to Germany. Italy and\nthe African bases had been lost. The Nazis were on the run, with a\nnumber of key countries, such as Rumania, leaving the Axis. A\nsecond front was a matter of months away, as the western Allies\nprepared their forces. In the midst of all this we find Eichmann,\nthe master bureaucrat of industrial murder, setting up his HZ in\noccupied Budapest, after the German takeover of the country in\nApril 1944. His first act was to have a conference with the Jewish\nleadership, and to appoint Zionist Federation members, headed by\nKastner as the agent and clearing house for all Jews and their\nrelationship with the SS and the Nazr authorities. Why they did\nthis is not difficult to see. As opposed to Poland, where its\nthree and a half million Jews lived in ghettoes and were visibly\ndifferent from the rest of the Polish population, the Hungarian\nJews were an integrated part of the community. The middle class\nwas mainly Jewish, the Jews were mainly middle-class. They enjoyed\nfreedom of travel, served in the Hungarian (fascist) army in\nfronline units, as officers and soldiers, their names were\nHungarian - how was Eichmann to find them if they were to be\nexterminated ? The task was not easy, there were a million Jews in\nHungary, most of them resident, the rest being refugees from other\ncountries. Many had heard about the fate of Jews elsewhere, and\nwere unlikely to believe any statements by Nazi officials.\n\nLike elsewhere, the only people who had the information and the\near of the frightened Jewish population were the Judenrat. In this\ncase the Judenrat comprsied mainly the Zionist Federation members.\nWithout their help the SS, with 19 officers and less than 90 men,\nplus a few hundred Hungarian police, could not have collected and\ncontrolled a million Jews, when they did not even know their\nwhereabouts. Kastner and the others were left under no illusions.\nEichmann told Joel Brand, one of the members of Kastner's\ncommittee, that he intended to send all Hungary's Jews to\nAuschwitz, before he even started the expulsions! He told them\nclearly that all these Jews will die, 12,000 a day, unless certain\nconditions were met.\n\nThe Committee faced a simple choice - to tell the Jews of Hungary\nabout their fate, (with neutral Rumania, where many could escape,\nbeing in most cases a few hours away) or to collaborate with the\nNazis by assisting in the concentration process. What would not\nhave been believed when coming from the SS, sounded quite\nplausible when coming from the mouths of the Zionist leadership.\nThus it is, that most of the Hungarian Jews went quietly to their\ndeath, assured by their leadership that they were to be sent to\nwork camps.\n\nTo be sure, there are thirty pieces of silver in this narrative of\ndestruction: the trains of 'prominents' which Eichmann promised to\nKastner - a promise he kept to the last detail. For Eichmann it\nwas a bargain: allowing 1,680 Jews to survive, as the price paid\nfor the silent collaboration over the death of almost a million\nJews.\n\nThere was no way in which the Jews of Hungary could even be\nlocated, not to say murdered, without the full collaboration of\nKastner and his few friends. No doubt the SS would hunt a few Jews\nhere and there, but the scale of the operation would have been\nminiscule compared to the half million who died in Auschwitz.\n\nIt is important to realise that Kastner was not an aberration,\nlike say Rumkovsky in Lodz. Kastner acted as a result of his\nstrongly held Zionist convictions. His actions were a logical\noutcome of earlier positions. This is instanced when he exposed to\nthe Gestapo the existence of a British cell of saboteurs, Palgi\nand Senesh, and persuaded them to give themselves up, so as not to\ndisrupt his operations. At no point during his trial or elsewhere,\ndid Kastner deny that he knew exactly what was to happen to those\nJews.", "Face it Mr. Beyer, you're just outmatched by us Israeli\nintellectuals. Any attempts to defend the deceitful,\nundeserving Palestinians will prove fruitless!\n", "\n\n\nRepeat a lie often enough and people will start to believe it, eh?\n\nThe Hamas terrorists were given the opportunity to appeal. They've\nchosen not to, obviously because they get better propaganda mileage\nout of refusing.\n\nIsrael also agreed that they could return immediately, provided they\nagreed to stop killing Jews. Their refusal speaks for itself.\n", "\nHow do you define war? Do seiges and constant attacks on villiages\ncount as acts of war, or is that only when the Jews do them?\nJanuary, 1948: Arab Liberation Army attacks Kfar Szold\n 1000 men attack Kfar Etzion, 14 miles south of Jerusalem,\n after cutting off the supply lines to it.\nAttacks on Yehiam (Western Galilee) and kibbutz Tirat Tzvi.\nBy Mid-March, The Jewish settlements in the Negev had been cut off from\n land links with the rest of the Jewish population.\n The Etzion group of villiages, near Hebron, had been cut off,\n while 42 members of a convoy trying to supply Yehiam were\n slaughtered, cutting off the villiage.\nJerusalem was under seige, being cut off from its supply route from\n Tel Aviv (the bombed out supply trucks have been left on the side\n of that road to this day in memoriam). By this time, 1200 Jews \n had been killed.\n\nOf course, this isn't war, since it's only the Arabs attacking.\nJust like last week when the Fatah launched Katyusha rockets\nagainst Northern israel. Where does uprising end and war begin?\nWill it still be 'Intifadah' when the PLO brings in tanks?\n\n\n", "Arab citizens have the all the same rights as Jews. Arabs are\nexempt from military service, but that is about it. Arabs have a\nfull voice in Israeli politics, to the degree that they choose to\nget involved. They may vote. There are Arabs in the Cabinet. ", "\n[R2D2] Benjamin, my Zionist friend:\n[R2D2] It is amazing that there are still pigs like you left on this planet.\n[R2D2] Occupied Palestine has become a prison for its own inhabitants, thanks \n[R2D2] to you, the Zionist network around the world, and those who call \n[R2D2] themselves \"the chosen people of God\".\n[R2D2] If there is a God, and for as long as we have a breath left, we will\n[R2D2] fight for our freedom. Benjamin, don't rest too easily...\n\nThanks for writing your name and identifying yourself, you coward.\nThat is right hide behind your blind rhetoric, but beware JLE the \nMossad agent wil come and get you.\n\nTsiel", "\nYou deliberately deleted a line! I don't remember how wrote it, but I remember \nwhat he wrote. He wrote\n\nHappy 45 birth day of Israel!\n\nand I worte:\n\n\nIs this means that the number of the people have been killed by Israel are so\nhigh that you can not keep the track of, or this is also a part of Zionism \nideology that you don't need to keep the track of the people you kill? \nJust kill!\n\nHamid\n", "From article <1993Apr15.031349.21824@src.honeywell.com>, by amehdi@src.honeywell.com (Hossien Amehdi):\n\nTell me then, would you also fight the Syrians in Lebanon?\n\nOh, no of course not. They would be your brothers and you would\ntell that you invited them. ", "\n\nI wouldn't bet on it.\n\nArab governments generally don't care much about the Palestineans and\ntheir struggle but find it useful for political purposes back home.\nThey are happy to leave the Palestineans largely under Israeli control\nbecause that leaves the job of controlling them to the Israelis. The\nIsraelis don't like this job any more than King Hussein of Jordan\nliked it -- and he managed to kill them off at the rate of thousands\nper month when they started an Intifada in Jordan. The governments of\nSyria, Lebanon and Egypt all feel similarly. However, proclaiming\npublic support for the Palestinean war against Israel deflects\ncriticism from deep problems at home and lends an air of legitimacy to\neven the most brutal Arab tyrants.\n\nArab *PEOPLE* probably aren't much more sympathetic. Palestineans\nhave shown a willingness to destabilize and plunder in Jordan,\nLebanon and Kuwait and are viewed with suspicion elsewhere.\n\nYou might still be right in sympathy to the war against Israel, but I\nsuspect that many Arabs, far removed from the immediate border with\nIsrael (e.g. in Kuwait or Morroco), couldn't care less.\n", "Throughout the years of the Israel/Arab-Palestinian conflict, the internal\nPalestinian popultation has found itself essentially relegated to the\nlower tiers of the economy. Given the major kinds of positions required\nby the Israeli and the \"Palestinian\" economy, there are essentially two\ndifferent ones existing side by side aren't holding down many of the \"\nskilled\" positions. So, when Gaza has to operate on its own, there are \nfew residents trained to fill the need for middle and upper management.", "\nDamned if you do and Damned if you don't!\n\n\nJust for the record, Egyptian troops were one of the first to be\nstationed there. I can't remember the exact date but it was late last\nyear. In fact, they lost at least one man there as far as I know.\n", "\n\nSo far, you have presented your opinions as opposed to mine. I would\nhardly take them as facts.\n\n\n\nI could give you hundreds of words in my mother tongue (Spanish), that\nare comonly use and you will never find in a dictionary. Even more, I\ncould show you a lot of meanings that words in Spanish have different\nfrom those in the dictionary.\n\n\nAnd guess why. Isn't it curious that we do not know how many people define \nin how many different ways the term Jew, which is the basis of the movement \nitself?\nSo, the evidence shows that up to now, Jew, when considered in terms of Israel,\nthe Law of Return and Jewish Nationality is defined in terms of religion and\nnot of cultural identity, even if 80% of those defined as Jews in Isreal\nare not religious.\n\n\n\nThat IS a problem. I am saying that I do not support Zionism as it is\nnow. I believe that among the people in the Soviet Communist Party some\nmight even had been inspired by noble ideals. Does that change the\nfinal results of what happened in the USSR?\nIn the same way, even if the Zionist movement is not homogeneous, it\ndoes not matter. What matters is the result.\n\n\nI never said it directly nor indirectly. I am not talking about individuals\nwho defined themselves as zionists here. I am sure most of them are good,\nhonest and caring people. I am talking about the results of the Zionist\nMovement. I am talking about a Movement whose actions resulted in a\nLaw of Return with a religious definition of Jew, a country that defines\nnationality based on religion. I am talking about something I consider\na form of racism such as differenciation based on religious belief. \nAfter all, if Arabs in Israel cannot serve in the Army is becasue they \nwere not born in the \"right\" religion.\n\n\nI had never heard the definition: Only those who are religious are defined as Jews.\nI had always seen the definition: A person is a Jew is his/her mother is/was\na Jew, and if such person does not convert, although I had seen people\nargue about the last part.\n\n\nSo, there is no difference between citizenship and nationality in Israel?\nOr what do you mean by \"Actually, it doesn't\"?\n\n\nSo, it follows a religious definition and not a cultural one. That is what\nI call a form of racism.\n\n\nYou do not need to assume the representation of \"everybody else\" to \nmake your points. You should assume that you are just talking for yourself.\nAbout the other stuff, I still believe that the example was a valid one.\nIt would be a hypocrisy to say that one supports nationalism for all and\nthen support Zionism and then disregard the Palestinian's right.\n\n\nIt was an example. You are trying to justify something nobody has \ntalked about.\n\n\n\nReference.\n\n\nyes, but not all of them. A language is something that evolves all the time.\n\n\nNot really. I posted in another post the definition of Zionism. And, in\nthis post you have showed for me what I was telling you from the \nbegining. Zionism is a form of racism, even if most zionists are not\nracist in their individual and private lifes. A movement that ask\nfor a State and National rights for a people, and then in practice,\nthat people are defined according to religion is, for me, racist-like.\n\n\nYou did it. Next time be more careful.\n\n\nDo you know the difference between opinion and fact?\n", "\nI find these to be intriguing remarks. Could you give us a bit\nmore explanation here? For example, which religion is anti-semitic,\nand which aesthetic?", "\nLooking at [1] we find that during Roman times \"Tyre vied with Sidon\nfor first place in the intellectual life of the period\"; that Tyre was\nthe seat of a Christian bishop, eventually with 14 dioceses under it;\nthat \"the most magnificent church of its kind in all Phoenecia\" was the\nbasilica built in Tyre ca. 314; that Tyre was well known for its\nexports of glassware, wine, white marble, and dyed cloth; that Tyre,\nalong with other seaports, \"provided outlets for South Arabian, Indian\nand even Chinese trade\"; that Tyre had to accomodate its growing\npopulation by \"following a perpendicular, rather than horizontal, line\nof growth\" (because it was running out of land to build on); that Tyre\nestablished colonies of its own. None of this sounds like a \"small\nfishing village\" by any stretch of the imagination.\n\nCenturies later, under the Abbasids, Tyre had \"opulent and flourishing\nbazaars\" and buildings of 5-6 stories. During this period, Tyre was\n\"noted for its export of sugar, beads, and, as of old, glassware.\"\nDuring the Crusades, Tyre was the second-most flourishing city held\nby Franks. (There is a lot more, but I got tired of writing.)\n\nIn [2] we read the following description of modern Lebanon: \"other\n*major cities* in Lebanon include Tripoli, Sidon, Tyre, Baalbek and\nZahlah.\" [my emphasis] This source also discusses the impact of\nthe Lebanese Civil War, and the Israeli military actions (1978, 1982)\non the trading ports of Tyre and Sidon. It notes that after Israel's\nwithdrawel in 1984, \"Tyre appeared to enjoy a revival of its local\neconomy.\"\n\nIf Tyre is such an insignificant little fishing village at present,\nwhy is it always called a city (or, above, a \"major city\")? Why\ndoes it show up on all the maps? When population figures for cities\nin Lebanon are given, why is Tyre always one of the cities on the\nlist (even if the list is only a dozen cities long)?\n\n[1] Philip K. Hitti, _Lebanon in History: From the earliest times to\nthe present_, NY, St. Martins, 1967. \n\n[2] Federal Research Division, Library of Congress, _Lebanon: a\ncountry study_, edited by Thomas Collelo, 1989.\n\n\nA one-horse town? Sounds like a lot of work for one horse.\n(Anyway, Tyre is connected by roads to the mainland. They\nmay even use cars these days. :-) \n\nThe 1991 Encyclopedia Britannica says \"Pop. (1982 est.) 23,000.\" \nMost other references give figures in the 14-17 thousand range.\n(One atlas gives the population of Tyre as 60,000; the same\nsource give comparatively high figures for Sidon and Beirut, also,\nso I doubt that it is a typo. Perhaps these were figures for\nthe cities and their surrounding areas.) I don't doubt that the\npopulation of Tyre has fluctuated over the last few decades. In\nparticular, the 1982 Israeli military action hurt Tyre quite a bit. \n\n\nI thought you were talking about times that Tyre was destroyed.\nDon't most, if not all, of these apply not just to Tyre but to \nthe other cities in the area? Sidon, for example? Can you make\na case for Tyre having been singled out?\n\n\nThey had a good deal of autonomy under the Seleucids. From [2]:\nTyre \"receiv[ed] the rights [of autonomy] from Antiochus Ephiphanes\nand from 125 BC onward enjoy[ed] complete autonomy. She started a\nlarge series of coins, occasionally in gold ...\"\n\nThe descriptions of Tyre under the Romans don't seem to fit\nyour characterization, either. And under the Abbasids it seems\nto have been allowed to flourish. I still think you are stretching\nwhen you try to describe Tyre as having been nothing but a small\nfishing village.\n\n\nA Christian apologist whose standards of scholarship are quite low.\nHe happens to quote the same source you quote (Nina Jidejian,\n_Tyre through the Ages_, Beirut, Dar El-Mashreq Publishers, 1969).\nThe same sentence, in fact. He defends the fulfillment of the\nprophecy using the same argument you are using, an argument that\nI haven't seen in print anywhere else, which is why I jumped to\nthe conclusion that you were quoting Josh.\n\n(I tried to find the Jidejian book, but it isn't listed in Books\nin Print. Can you tell me more about it? Her descriptions are so\nmuch at odds with everything else I've read; I'm curious to know why.)", "\nWell, -I've- been reading t.p.m. for a while and here is what I saw\nYOU write:\n\n\n >For balance, perhaps you should mention the mosques in Jerusalem that\n >were razed after the Israeli victory in 1967. An eye for an eye, I guess.\n\nYour statment clearly tries to \"balance\" Arab atrocities by noting a\nsingle incident by the Israelis in war-time at their most holy site.\nYou even characterize it as \"an eye for an eye\". \n\n\n >That would be false. If you read your history, you will learn that\n >right after the 1967 war, the victorious Israelis decided to raze a\n >section of the newly captured East Jerusalem, near the Wailing Wall.\n >It is in this section that mosques were razed.\n\nso now you have to find some source that notes that more than 1 mosque\nwas razed. You then followed it with:\n\n >This episode is an example of a good government running amok with\n >newly acquired power. \n\nReally? Do you still feel that Israelis are comparable in the running\namok with power with, say, the Iraqis? Your \"eye for an eye\"\ncomparisons don't match the realities that most of us are familiar\nwith.\n\n\nThis happened to be during a war! And a fierce and mighty war it was,\ntoo. Would you say that the Jordanians \"indiscriminately shot up\nancient structures as is their custom\" in describing bullet holes in\nthe walls of the city? This was war! It was certainly not any \"eye\nfor an eye\" characterstic. Israelis do not harbor the same feelings\nof revenge as the Arabs generally do. This is one of the reasons that\nthe Peace Now movement exists in Israel and nowhere else in the M.E.\n\n", "... deleted\n\nI am not in the business of reading minds, however in this case it would not\nbe necessary. Israelis top leaders in the past and present, always come across\nas arrogant with their tough talks trying to intimidate the Arabs. \n\nThe way I see it, Israelis and Arabs have not been able to achieve peace\nafter almost 50 years of fighting because of the following two major reasons:\n\n 1) Arab governments are not really representative of their people, currently\n most of their leaders are stupid, and/or not independent, and/or\n dictators.", "\nMr. Emmanuel Huna,\n\nGive logic a break will you. Gosh, what kind of intelligence do\nyou have, if any?\n\n\nTesiel says : Be a man not an arab for once.\nI say : Fuck of Tsiel (for saying the above).\n\nI get tagged as a racist, and he gets praised?\nWell Mr. logicless, Tsiel has apologized for his racist remark.\nI praise him for that courage, but I tell Take a hike to whoever calls me\na racist without a proof because I am not.\n\nYou have proven to us that your brain has been malfunctioning\nand you are just a moron that's loose on the net.", "\n\n\nSounds like wishful guessing.\n\n\n\n\n'So-called' ? What do you mean ? How would you see the peace process?\n\nSo you say palestineans do not negociate because of 'well-founded' predictions ?\nHow do you know that they are 'well founded' if you do not test them at the \ntable ? 18 months did not prove anything, but it's always the other side at \nfault, right ?\n\nWhy ? I do not know why, but if, let's say, the Palestineans (some of them) want\nALL ISRAEL, and these are known not to be accepted terms by israelis.\n\nOr, maybe they (palestinenans) are not yet ready for statehood ?\n\nOr, maybe there is too much politics within the palestinean leadership, too many\nfractions aso ?\n\nI am not saying that one of these reasons is indeed the real one, but any of\nthese could make arabs stall the negotiations.\n\n \nI like California oranges. And the feelings may get sharper at the table.\n\n\n\nRegards,", "\nIf you want info claiming that blacks were brought to earth 60 trillion\nyears ago by Aliens from the plante Shabazz, I can send you literature from\nthe Nation of Islam (Farrakhan's group) who believe this.\n\nIf you want info claiming that the Holocaust never happened, I can send you\ninfo from IHR (Institute for Historical Review - David Irving's group), or\njust read Dan Gannon's posts on alt.revisionism.\n\nI just wanted to put Steve's post in with the company that it deserves.\n", "\n\n\n > most of their leaders are stupid, and/or not independent, and/or\n\n\n\n\nIt's not relevant whether I agree with you or not, there is some reasonable\nthought in what you say here an I appreciate your point. However, I would make 2\nremarks: \n\n - you forgot about hate, and this is not only at government level.\n - It's not only 'arab' governments.\n\nNow, about taugh talk and arrogance, we are adults, aren't we ? Do you listen \nto tough talk of american politicians ? or switch the channel ? \nI would rather be 'intimidated' by some dummy 'talking tough' then by a \nbomb ready to blow under my seat in B747.\n\n", "THE WHITE HOUSE\n\n Office of the Press Secretary\n_____________________________________________________________________\nFor Immediate Release April 14, 1993\n\n\n\n PRESS BRIEFING\n BY GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS\n\n\n The Briefing Room\n\n\n12:40 P.M. EDT\n\t \n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I guess I'm just prepared to take \nquestions today.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, Bob Dole says that the Clinton \nadministration's policy on Bosnia is a failure and that he wants the \nUnited States to take the lead in lifting the arms embargo so that \nthe Bosnian Muslims can defend themselves.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: As you know, President Clinton has \nsaid that that suggestion is under active consideration. Obviously, \nthis is a tragic situation in Bosnia. And if the Bosnian Serbs don't \ncome to the negotiating table in a constructive way, we'll look \nseriously at pressing for lifting the arms embargo. In the meantime, \nwe're going to continue to press for a tough sanctions resolution in \nthe U.N. We're going to continue to work on the Serbs to come to the \nnegotiating table. But the prospect of an arms embargo is something \nthe President certainly will consider if the Serbs don't come to the \ntable.\n\t \n\t Q\t How much longer are you going to give them to come \nto the table, George?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: We're working on that right now.\n\t \n\t Q\t It's been a long time.\n\t \n\t Q\t On February 19th, the President mentioned the value \nadded tax in Ohio. And when he was asked about it later by \nreporters, he said -- quote -- \"That is a radical change in the tax \nsystem of the United States. It's something I think we may have to \nlook at in the years ahead.\" Questioned again about it later he \nsays, \"It is not something that is now under consideration. If we \nstart considering it, I'll tell you.\" It wasn't a trial balloon or \nanything, he said. I was just discussing the tax response to a \nquestion. Donna Shalala, quoted in USA Today this morning -- quote -\n- \"Certainly we're looking at a VAT.\" What's gone on?\n\t \n\t Q\t The same with Alice Rivlin this morning.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The health care task force is \nreviewing a number of options. They haven't made any decisions yet. \nAnd as I have said from this podium time and time again, we're not \ngoing to comment on decisions that haven't been made.\n\t \n\t Q\t But you have also said from this podium time and \ntime again --\n\t \n\t Q\t Wait a minute. Whoa, Nelly. Whoa. \n\t \n\t Q\t that that was not under consideration.\n\t \n\t Q\t Yes. Clinton says, \"It is not something that is \nnow under consideration.\" Is that no longer true?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I believe the working group, as Ms. \nShalala says, has looked at this prospect, but no decisions have been \nmade of any kind.\n\t \n\t Q\t Well, I know. But he said he'd tell us about it if \nit was ever under consideration. I take it that now he is and he \ndidn't tell us about it or --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Did he say if it was under \nconsideration or if it was something to be proposed?\n\t \n\t Q\t \"If we start considering I'll tell you.\"\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: If it's something to be proposed?\n\t \n\t Q\t \"If we start considering it, I'll tell you.\" \nThat's a direct quote.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The task force has looked at a \nnumber of different options. They have not made any decisions yet. \nThe President has not made any decisions yet. This is -- one of the \nproposals under consideration by the task force was to go out and \ncast as wide a net as possible for different ideas on how to reform \nthe health care system. They have cast a very wide net. They have \nlooked at hundreds of different proposals -- probably thousands of \ndifferent proposals. But the President has not made any decisions.\n\t \n\t Q\t Well, is the President aware of their consideration \nof this option?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know if he's been briefed \non any preliminary conclusions or anything like that from the task \nforce on this specific proposal of any kind. I don't know that \nthat's gotten to his level. He started yesterday to go through with \nthe task force a very wide range of decisions and I don't believe \nthat that's been presented to him, no.\n\t \n\t Q\t Well, he's not relying on the USA Today to tell him \nwhat his task force is considering in the way of taxes.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No, he's going through it in a very \ndeliberate fashion. There are a number of decisions that have to be \nmade. I don't know that this proposal has reached that decision-\nmaking point.\n\t \n\t Q\t If this is still under consideration, that's a \nchange, at least from what we've been told by Dee Dee, I think about \nthree weeks ago or so. She said, that is not an option, talking \nabout the -- had a big argument with somebody over this, so I \nremember it specifically -- and said it not once, but twice. Is that \nnot the case?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Again, I don't know if this has \nbeen presented to the President as something that is being looked at \nat some level in the task force.\n\t \n\t Q\t It was ruled it out, though. I mean, unlike other \noptions that you've kept in the mix, this one specifically was ruled \nout.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Again, this is something that is \nbeing looked at, but no decision has been made of any kind. I mean, \nit doesn't -- it's not necessarily material until you get to the \ndecision-making phase. The working groups are looking at hundreds of \ndifferent options.\n\t \n\t Q\t If it was ruled out before and it's not ruled out \nnow, then something has changed, George. Yes, no?\n\t \n\t Q\t When a guy says in February --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, the working groups are \nlooking at the widest possible range of options.\n\t \n\t Q\t So something's changed. They weren't looking at it \nbefore; they're looking at it now.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, I don't know if the working \ngroups have gotten to that point yet. They are casting a very wide \nnet.\n\t \n\t Q\t How was it possible that you and Dee Dee were able \nto sell -- definitively rule it out as an option previously and now \nare saying that, in fact, it is being considered?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Again, the working groups are \nlooking at a wide range of options. They have not --\n\t \n\t Q\t Do you deny that you and Dee Dee ruled it -- flatly \nruled it out on several occasions in the past month?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't deny that -- I mean, those \nare the President's words. Those are very clear.\n\t \n\t Q\t Subsequent to the President's words, do you deny \nthat within the last month you and Dee Dee have both publicly ruled \nit out?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know about the timing. I \nthink what we did was refer back to the President's words and say \nthey stand.\n\t \n\t Q\t So don't they stand any longer?\n\t \n\t Q\t March 25th, Clinton said for the next four to five \nyears it was ruled out.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, those words -- the President \ndid say that in February. The working groups are on a separate \ntrack, and as I said, I don't believe --\n\t \n\t Q\t Separate from the President?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't believe this has been \npresented to the President.\n\t \n\t Q\t Are they considering something that the President \n--\n\t \n\t Q\t Has ruled out?\n\t \n\t Q\t has ruled out? I mean, will the President \nconsider a VAT tax?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Again, the working groups have not \npresented this to the President. They have looked at a wide range of \noptions. I suppose that if an argument is made, he will clearly \nlisten to it. That does not mean he has decided to do it.\n\t \n\t Q\t Can we put this another way? In his answer in \nOhio, he looked at the VAT in terms of restructuring the whole tax \nsystem. Under those -- that was the circumstance that he said it \nmight be considered at some future point. Is that no longer the \ncase, or is that the only way that he can see a VAT emerging?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I guess I'm not sure exactly what \nyou're asking.\n\t \n\t Q\t He talked about the VAT in the context of a \nrestructured tax system, not as a specific way to finance health \ncare, for example.\n\t \n\t Q\t Or anything else.\n\t \n\t Q\t Or anything else.\n\t \n\t Q\t It was always in the context of substituting for \nother taxes at a time of a dramatic overhaul of the whole tax system.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Right.\n\t \n\t Q\t Has that change, too?\n\t \n\t Q\t Is that still his view?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I haven't spoken about those \nspecific comments. I think -- I can just go back to it -- are the \nworking groups -- have they examined the possibility of a VAT? Yes, \nthey have.\n\t \n\t Q\t Certainly we're looking at a VAT, she said.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: They have examined the possibility \nof a VAT. Has it been presented to the President? Has he made a \ndecision? No, he has not.\n\t \n\t Q\t What kind of a deal do you have when you've got the \nPresident's appointed task force, obviously not oblivious to his \nruling something out except in the context of some huge down the line \nreform, goes ahead on its own and considers a tax which he has \nspecifically ruled out in any context other than much later, and then \ngoes ahead and announces that that's what they're looking at? Is the \nPresident concerned about that sort of thing?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think that the President's \nconcern is to make sure he gets the best health care proposal \npossible. He's concerned with making sure that they have the most \nthorough process for examining all the possible alternatives, all the \ndifferent alternatives. If a decision is made to go forward with \nsomething like that it's certainly something the President will \nexplain and justify. But no decision has been made along those \nlines.\n\t \n\t Q\t What does it mean exactly, though, when the \nPresident rules something out? Does it mean it can get back on the \ntable later if a more persuasive argument is made?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: That's just -- that's indisputably \ntrue. If you -- but, at the same time, he has not ruled it in. He \nhas not made a proposal.\n\t \n\t Q\t What makes him open to it now when he wasn't open \nto it before?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: He's certainly willing to listen to \nthe argument.\n\t \n\t Q\t Was he willing to listen to the argument for a \nshort-term tax this year, and he wasn't willing to listen to it in \nChilicothe? He's now open to it --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The context of his comments was \nthat it was not something -- he wanted to be clear that this is not \nsomething he was proposing, not something he was floating.\n\t \n\t Q\t Not something he was considering. Those are his \nwords -- \"It's not something that's now under consideration. If we \nstart considering it, I'll tell you.\" You're now acknowledging, are \nyou not, that it is under consideration and --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm acknowledging that the task \nforce has studied this proposal. I am also stating that the \nPresident has not made a decision on it.\n\t \n\t Q\t But the door is open for the President to \nreconsider including this as part of --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Obviously, the working groups are \nlooking at it. Again, but the President has not made a decision.\n\t \n\t Q\t Do you know if they will make a presentation on \nbehalf of the VAT to him?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know that. I assume that \nif -- I don't know what stage they are it in proposing. I don't know \nthat they're going to make the conclusion that this is something they \nshould present to him. I know this is something the working groups \nare looking at.\n\t \n\t Q\t Do you understand, George, that none of us are \nasking these questions in context of a decision that the President \nhas made, only about what the President is considering?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I understand that, and I am \nacknowledging that the working groups have examined the issue of a \nVAT.\n\t \n\t Q\t And the President will consider it?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I assume that he will consider the \nargument if it is presented to him.\n\t \n\t Q\t Does that mean the President -- that working groups \nthink that when the President says no, he means maybe? (Laughter.)\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think that means that the working \ngroups are trying to do the most thorough job possible.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, can I ask you another question about \nBosnia?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Sure. (Laughter.)\n\t \n\t Q\t No, he wants us to stay on this.\n\t \n\t Q\t Let's do gays in the military. (Laughter.)\n\t \n\t Q\t No, he got out of that swamp.\n\t \n\t Q\t I think we've gotten the bottom line on that VAT. \nReggie Bartholomew, your Special Ambassador in Belgrade, today said \nthat if the Serbs do not accept the agreement that has been worked \nout -- quote -- \"We will do our part to pursue the lifting of the \narms embargo together with our allies.\" That seems to go a bit \nfurther than what you've just said --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Sounds almost exactly what I just \nsaid.\n\t \n\t Q\t Well, do you accept -- in other words, you accept \nwhat Reggie --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, the President has said that \nthis is something that's under consideration. It is something he \nwill consider if the current actions don't bring the Serbs to the \ntable.\n\t \n\t Q\t Isn't there some kind of timetable here? \n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes, there is a timetable. There's \ngoing to be a vote on the U.N. resolution in about 10 days.\n\t \n\t Q\t That's on sanctions, that's on tightening the \nsanctions.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: That's right, that's sanctions. \nAnd we believe that that will ratchet up the pressure, and we hope \nthat that will bring the Serbs to the table. As you know, Mr. \nBartholomew also met with Mr. Churkin of Russia, and they are also \nworking on ways to bring the Serbs to the table. We will continue to \npressure them in many different ways and this is one possible option \nas well.\n\t \n\t Q\t The question is whether there's a timetable for \nconsideration or a vote on a decision on lifting the arms embargo, \nnot the sanctions.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The next vote in the U.N. is on \nsanctions. As far as I know, there are no votes scheduled on lifting \nthe arms embargo. But it is something that we have discussed both \ninternally and with our allies.\n\t \n\t Q\t Why did Reggie Bartholomew tell the Serbs that the \nU.S. would do that? What was the point of his telling them that?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, clearly, I mean, this is \nsomething that's under consideration, and this is something that we \ntake quite seriously if they do not come to the table. They should \nknow the consequences of failing to come to the table.\n\t \n\t Q\t Have they been given a deadline?\n\t \n\t Q\t Warren Christopher has been saying the same thing \nand it hasn't seemed to change the Serbs' behavior in the least. Why \nshould the Serbs take any heed of a threat to lift the arms embargo \nwhen so far everything that's been done has had no effect on the \nfighting in Bosnia?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I just don't accept the premise of \nyour question. It has had an effect; the embargo is having an \neffect. \n\t \n\t Q\t What effect?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: If the Serbians choose not to heed \nour warnings, then they will face the consequences.\n\t \n\t Q\t What effect has it had in Bosnia?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, the effect that it has had on \nthe Serbians, it has tightened up -- they are not getting their \nshipments through. We can brief more fully --\n\t \n\t Q\t In Bosnia, George. In Bosnia what effect has it \nhad?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, it's hard to say if it's \nstopped the aggression to date. That is why we're continuing to \npress for the Serbians to stop. But we believe that over time we \nwill continue to weaken the Serbs and that will have an effect. \nI'm not saying it's going to happen overnight; it clearly hasn't \nhappened overnight. But we believe that over time the sanctions can \nweaken the Serbs. If it fails to work and if the Serbs fail to come \nto the negotiating table, we'll move forward with the embargo.\n\t \n\t Q\t Isn't there a working deadline, George, of the 24th \n-- the same date as the U.N. -- the scheduled U.N. vote? Hasn't the \nUnited States said, along with many of the other NATO allies, that if \nthe Serbs aren't willing to sign on to the peace accord by then, that \nwe'll seek -- haven't we said that we will seek --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: We've said continually we're going \nto --\n\t \n\t Q\t But on that deadline?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't have a specific date, but \nwe're going to move forward with the resolution, the U.N. resolution, \nby around that time. And if that fails to take effect, if that fails \nto bring the Serbs to the table, we will clearly consider other \nactions.\n\t \n\t Q\t Isn't this awfully incremental?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: We're taking a step-by-step \napproach. We're ratcheting up the pressure and we're going to \ncontinue to do that.\n\t \n\t Q\t Is there a possibility, George, that by the time \nall these incremental steps are taken the Serbs will have achieved \ntheir goals and then what's the purpose?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think the purpose is to get the \nSerbs to stop the aggression. We are pursuing that goal on many \ndifferent fronts. We are pursuing it through the U.N.; we're \npursuing it through direct talks; we are pursuing it through \ntightening the sanctions. And we will consider lifting the arms \nembargo. We are turning the screws up on the Serbs and we will \ncontinue to do that.\n\t \n\t Q\t But if the efforts have been unsuccessful in \ngetting the Serbs to stop the aggression how effective will any \ncampaign be to have the Serbs give back what they've gained? I mean, \nonce they're entrenched --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I can't speculate on that. We're \ngoing to continue to press for them to come to the table now. We're \ngoing to continue to find ways to stop the aggression. But I can't \nsee into the future.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, on the stimulus package, House Republicans \nsay they're going to hold a series of town meetings on Saturday to \ntry and explain the details of your package. They cite polls which \nshow that the more people learn about it, the less they like it. \nWhat's your strategy to counter that?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The strategy we have is the one \nwe're going to continue. As you saw, the President today pointed up \nthe very real benefits of the summer jobs program that this package \nwill provide: 700,000 new summer jobs this summer for kids in inner \ncities and suburbs to do productive work. We are also going to point \nout the benefits of the highway money, the investments in highways. \nWe're going to point up the benefits of immunization. We're going to \npoint up the benefits of Head Start. We are going to say that the \nRepublicans have a choice: they can take action to create jobs or \nthey can perpetuate the gridlock of the last four years. \n\t \n\t Q\t Does it concern you, though, that the House now, \nthe House Republicans are after you as well as the Senate?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The House Republicans voted against \nit before. They made a mistake then; they're making a mistake now.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, does it strike anybody in the \nadministration that it's a bit strong to describe, as the President \ndid this morning, the summer jobs program as -- quote -- \"a \nreaffirmation of a promise of America\"?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Not at all. I think it's the \npromise of America to give kids a chance to reach their full \npotential. \n\t \n\t Q\t Government-funded jobs?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: To give people a chance to work? \nAbsolutely. That is the promise of America.\n\t \n\t Q\t I want to follow up on something I asked yesterday \n-- where does 700,000 summer jobs, where does that figure come from?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: That is on top of. I did look at \nit. There are currently 600,000 summer jobs in the pipeline. This \nwill be on top of the 600,000, so it will be a total of 1.3 million.\n\t \n\t Q\t The 700,000 would be created by the stimulus \npackage?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes.\n\t \n\t Q\t Where does that number come from? Because we've \nbeen told all along that the stimulus package would create 500,000 \nnew jobs. And according to Panetta, that breaks down to something \nlike 200,000 full-time jobs and 150,000 summer jobs.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes, but the summer -- that's when \nyou do their full-time equivalence. I mean, 700,000 individuals will \nreceive jobs this summer. When you calculate it for the full-time \njob effect, you have to do -- I don't know what the exact formula is.\n\t \n\t Q\t Seven hundred thousand part-time jobs --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: -- 150,000 or --\n\t \n\t Q\t One to four because it's three months.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Thank you.\n\t \n\t Q\t Can I follow up on that? Did the President \nmisspeak this morning when he said that some of the government money \nfor these summer jobs will pay for private -- for kids to work in the \nprivate sector?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Not necessarily. I mean, I think \nthat there will be grants available. That's one of the ways that you \npay for the jobs. At the same time, he's also issued a challenge to \nthe private sector to hire kids on their own as well. \n\t \n\t Q\t Tax dollars, for instance, would pay for kids to \nwork at Time-Warner?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think the Time-Warner is actually \nsomebody coming forward and actually doing a grant. That's going to \nbe the bulk of it. There could be isolated instances, though, where \nthere would be grants to businesses.\n\t \n\t Q\t Has the President spoken with any Senate \nRepublicans this week?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: \nNo, but there's been a lot of contact with Senate Republicans in the \nWhite House.\n\t \n\t Q\t At a lower level. But the President hasn't?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The President has not, no.\n\t \n\t Q\t Getting any closer to get the votes?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: We're continuing to work on it. \n\t \n\t Q\t Anybody leaning your way?\n\t \n\t Q\t On Haiti, The New York Times seems to be reporting \nsomething of a breakthrough in Aristide's attitude towards the coup \nleaders. Can you confirm that there has been this change, and what \nimpact will it have on the process? And what did Pezzullo have to \nsay yesterday in his report?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Pezzullo did brief the principals. \nI can't confirm what's actually happening in the talks. I would \nleave that to the negotiators themselves. But Mr. Caputo has \nreturned to Haiti. We have received a briefing here at the White \nHouse from Ambassador Pezzullo. And as we have said time and time \nagain, we believe that assurances of security are important to a \nfinal resolution to a broader political settlement.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, yesterday you offered some selective \nbreakdowns of how the stimulus would impact some states and cities. \nCan we get a complete breakdown by state of how these jobs would be \nimpacted?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think we have it for most states, \nyes. And I think we can get it out.\n\t \n\t Q\t Could you make that generally available?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I believe we can.\n\t \n\t Q\t And could you do it by the component of the \nstimulus? In other words --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know if we can do -- I know \nthat we can do it by summer jobs and other jobs. I don't know how \ndeeply it can be broken down. But clearly, we can break it down into \nsummer jobs and other jobs.\n\t \n\t Q\t And can I follow up? Is this the information that \nJeff Eller and the rest of the White House is using in the ads in the \nstates?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know if they're ads, but \nthey're press releases.\n\t \n\t Q\t Can you describe what those press releases contain?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: All we're doing is pointing out the \nbenefits of this package to various states. For instance, I know \nthat today Senator Dole is heading up to Vermont and New Hampshire. \nAnd I would point out that the stimulus package, the jobs package \ncreates 1,000 jobs in Vermont. It creates 2,000 jobs in New \nHampshire. And the people of those states should remind him that \nthis is important. \n\t \n\t Q\t Where are the releases going?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: They go to the states.\n\t \n\t Q\t To whom?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: We can get them. It's no problem.\n\t \n\t Q\t Can we get it?\n\t \n\t Q\t Why don't you put them out here as well?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think we can.\n\t \n\t Q\t This afternoon? Would that be possible?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'll have to check. I don't know. \nBut as soon as we can.\n\t \n\t Q\t Are you focusing these press releases on states \nwhere there are moderate or pragmatic Republican senators?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think we're trying to get as many \nas we can. It's actually quite difficult to pull this together and \nwe're doing our best. We're putting them out as we get them.\n\t \n\t Q\t Why are you so closely tracking Senator Dole's \nschedule?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I was just following it. \n\t \n\t Q\t Are press releases going along to states where he's \nvisiting?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm not sure. I think that \nprobably there are press releases going to Vermont. (Laughter.)\n\t \n\t Q\t Will there be a man in a chicken suit waiting? \n(Laughter.)\n\t \n\t Q\t George, as the President goes about the business of \ndefending what's in his stimulus package, he doesn't address what \nseems to be the Republicans' main point, that you're funding it with \ndeficit spending rather than \"if it's so important, why not come up \nwith the funding for it\" seems to be the Republican argument. And \nhow do you answer that?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: What was answer is, we are paying \nfor it over time. And if you look at our budget, we pay for this \npackage over time. We believe right now the economy needs a jump-\nstart for jobs.\n\t \n\t Q\t You're not claiming, are you, that that doesn't add \nto the deficit this year?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm saying we're paying for it over \ntime. I didn't say that.\n\t \n\t Q\t I know that, George. But I mean, from the \nbeginning, the question -- we do have annual budgets and things --\ndeficit spending will pay for that this year, will it not?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: This year they clearly will. But \nover time our budget fully pays for this program.\n\t \n\t Q\t What you're saying is that there are savings that \nwould cover this if it were this year in future years?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Absolutely. That's exactly what I \nsaid.\n\t \n\t Q\t I know that, but there is going to be outstanding \ndebt, it will add to the national debt from this year --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No, we're reducing the deficit by \n$500 billion -- $514 billion over the next four years.\n\t \n\t Q\t You mean you're reducing it below what it would \nhave been?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Exactly.\n\t \n\t Q\t In fact, you're adding a very large amount to the \nnational debt over the period of --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: But we're reducing it far more from \nwhat it would have been. That's true. \n\t \n\t Q\t Washington-type reduction. (Laughter.)\n\t \n\t Q\t You're getting to be a grumpy old man.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, has any decision been made about the White \nHouse or the President's participation in the gay rights march coming \nup in a week and a half?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: We're working on the President's \nschedule now. I believe he's going to be at the Senate Democratic \nretreat in Jamestown that weekend.\n\t \n\t Q\t Will he address it by phone?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know about that. It's a \nlittle far out, but I believe he's going to be in the Senate retreat.\n\t \n\t Q\t So will he have the leaders in a day or two before \nthe speech?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know. I would expect that \nat some point he would meet with the leaders of some of these groups. \nI don't know the schedule on it, though.\n\t \n\t Q\t Will there be an AIDS czar appointed prior to or in \nconjunction with the event?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm just not sure.\n\t \n\t Q\t April 22nd is Earth Day. What is the President \ngoing to do to mark that, and is it the case that he is going to sign \nthe biodiversity treaty that day?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I know there's been some work on \nthe biodiversity treaty. I don't know about signing it that day, but \nI would expect he'll have a statement on Earth Day or right around \nthen.\n\t \n\t Q\t Where is the work on the biodiversity treaty?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'd have to check with Katie \nMcGinty. I just know that there's been some work done, but I don't \nknow exactly what.\n\t \n\t Q\t When is Earth Day?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The 22nd, I think.\n\t \n\t Q\t Why is it you know that he is going to have a \nstatement on Earth Day but you don't know if he's going to have a \nstatement on the gay rights march?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I said I don't know if he's going \nto meet or when he's going to meet.\n\t \n\t Q\t Do you have a statement on the gay rights march?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't, actually, no. I wouldn't \nbe surprised if he did, though.\n\t \n\t Q\t Do you have some details on the Miyazawa visit?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: It's a working visit on Friday and \nthe President is looking forward to that in discussing a number of \nissues including Russian aid and the Japanese stimulus package and \nthe trade issues between the two countries.\n\t \n\t Q\t There was some expectations that a second aid \npackage to Russia was going to be unveiled at the G-7 meeting and, if \nI understand, it hasn't happened. Why is that or what's the status \non that?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The G-7 meeting is still going on \nand, as you know, Secretaries Bentsen and Christopher have talked \nabout the outlines of a possible package. But we're going to \ncontinue to consult with Congress and our G-7 allies on that.\n\t \n\t Q?\t We will not then make any kind of announcement \nduring the two-day meeting?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The meeting's not over yet. \n\t \n\t Q\t Is that when you're going to make one?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm not ruling out the possibility.\n\t \n\t Q\t the President's going to announce it tomorrow.\n\t \n\t Q\t Bentsen said that.\n\t \n\t Q\t Yes, Bentsen said it would be tomorrow.\n\t \n\t Q\t So did Christopher.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'd have to look at that, but I \nbelieve it is more likely that the announcement will come out of \nTokyo.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, has there been further consideration here \nabout going to -- sending the President out to Los Angeles?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know that there's -- it's \nnot something we've ruled out. We don't have a date set for it.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, you all have a position or do you support \nImmigration's plan to settle 4,000 Iraqi prisoners in the United \nStates?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: It's the first I've heard of it.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, there was a report today about the --\n\t \n\t Q\t Fortunately. (Laughter.) \n\t \n\t Q\t about the pace of appointments and says that \nPresident Clinton is behind President Bush in the number of positions \nthat people have been nominated for. Are you going to speed up the \npace of nominations or where do you stand with it?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: We filled 814 of the President's \nappointments. And it's broken down -- we have 384 Schedule C; 147 \nnoncareer SES; 213 PAS full-time. I'm not sure what that means --\n(laughter) -- 70 PA full-time. And this is about the same -- it's \nabout the same pace of President Bush. Obviously, as you move along \nfarther, once you -- each level of appointment actually has a \nmultiplier effect and frees up far more appointments. So we expect \nthe process to speed up. But we're at the pace of Bush. Obviously \nwe'd like to get these done as quickly as possible. \n\t \n\t I would point out that the FBI background checks and the \nbackground check is far more comprehensive and it takes more time \nthan our predecessors, and that is part of the holdup. But we're \nworking on it.\n\t \n\t Q\t Is that because of Nannygate?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think that's an awful big part of \nit, yes.\n\t \n\t Q\t In the story this morning, you were at \napproximately the same pace as Bush in making appointments, but way \nbehind in winning confirmations.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: That's where the background checks \ncomes into play. That's the problem.\n\t \n\t Q\t That's the background checks problem? Because I \nmean, you have a Democratic Senate --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No, that's not the -- you make the \nappointments, and then it takes quite a bit of time to fill out all \nthe forms and have the background checks done. That's exactly where \nthe problem is.\n\t \n\t Q\t What's the President doing this afternoon, and \nwhat's on the plan for tomorrow?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: He's got some meetings -- just \noffice meetings this afternoon for the most part, on a variety of \nissues that -- probably a half-dozen different issues. And then \nhe'll be -- tomorrow we'll have an event, probably again focused on \nthe stimulus and jobs package out of here at the White House. And \nFriday is the Miyazawa meeting.\n\t \n\t Q\t Will you be releasing his tax return tomorrow, \nGeorge?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Either tomorrow or Friday.\n\t \n\t Q\t Is there going to be a pre-briefing regarding the \nJapanese Prime Minister's visit tomorrow?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know about tomorrow, but \nwe'll probably get something done, as we usually do, for these \nvisits.\n\t \n\t Q\t Was Reverend Jackson here this morning and do you \nknow what that was about?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: He was here. He met with a group \nof us here at the White House, including Mack McLarty.\n\t \n\t Q\t Who?\n\t \n\t Q\t Reverend Jackson.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Reverend Jackson. Mack McLarty, \nme, Gene Sperling, Bruce Reed, Jeff Watson, Mark Gearan. \n\t \n\t Q\t Talking about Haiti?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: We talked about general urban \npolicy. He is about to go to Los Angeles. He was just back from \nMississippi, where we had a good victory last night; and he's going \non to Los Angeles.\n\t \n\t Q\t Did he request the meeting?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Actually, no. He's in continual \ncontact with the President. He had written a letter on a variety of \nissues, and so we asked him to come in and talk about it.\n\t \n\t Q\t George, Dole is having a fundraiser for Jeffords \ntonight in Vermont. Have you guys been in contact with Jeffords at \nall on this?\n\n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think there's been some contact, \nsure.\n\t \n\t Q\t Can you tell us about the contacts?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm not sure -- \n\t \n\t Q\t Do you know who contacted him or what was said?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I know that Howard Paster talked to \nhim and they just has a general talk about the package.\n\t \n\t Q\t And did he express his support for it now, or is he \n--\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I can't divulge the details of the \nconversation, but there have been conversations.\n\t \n\t Q\t The L.A. Times is reporting that abortion --\nelective abortions is likely to be included in the basic health care \npackage. Is this something the President is considering?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Again --\n\t \n\t Q\t Along with the VAT? (Laughter.)\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: It's certainly something that's \nbeen looked at, but no decisions have been made.\n\t \n\t Q\t What was the question?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The L.A. Times story on whether \nabortions will be covered by the President's health plan.\n\t \n\t Q\t Did the President in his meeting -- did you in your \nmeeting with Reverend Jackson ask his advice, solicit his advice \nabout what kind of stance the White House should take in the wake of \nthe verdict in L.A.?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, we certainly talked about the \nsituation in Los Angeles and the long-term prospects for economic \ndevelopment and other issues.\n\t \n\t Q\t For instance, did you discuss whether it would be \nhelpful for the President to go there or not?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, we discussed a wide range of \nissues related to Los Angeles. That was certainly one of them.\n\t \n\t Q\t Letting you perhaps go out on the way you came in, \nI need to go back to Bosnia just for a second and ask --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Oh, good.\n\t \n\t Q\t your reaction to Margaret Thatcher's comments \nthat you're just sitting by and watching a massacre.\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, we've been pushing very hard \non a number of fronts for more aggressive action. We will continue \nto do that.\n\t \n\t Q\t Can you tell us if you've made any progress in your \ntalks on the stimulus package getting a compromise? I mean, we don't \nhave any feel except talks are ongoing. Have you talked to like 20 \npeople or --\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know the numbers. We've \ntalked to several people and we've had wide-ranging sessions. \n\t \n\t Q\t Anyone leaning your way?\n\t \n\t MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I can't get into that. We're just \ngoing to keep working through Tuesday.\n\t \n\t THE PRESS: Thank you.\n\n END 1:10 P.M. EDT", "I must finally admit the total truth that is central to the\ncore of my being.\n\n I am a homosexual. Not just a normal, run-of-the-mill\nhomosexual, but a rabid homosexual Zionist. I hide behind the\nfacade of pro-Israel rhetoric so as to deflect suspicion of my\ntrue motive: the exchange of romantic dialogue with Nick Steel,\nand our frequent fudge-packing adventures, which we have\nendeavored to maintain at a discreet level. Of course, the need\nfor discretion has been obviated by my own admission here.\n\n The truth is that I could no longer hold this saccharine\nsecret any longer. I love you, Nick, and my love for you\nsurpasses that which I hold for Eretz Yisrael, may she stand\nforever, as our love has, and as your erection insinuating itself\ninto my kosher rectum always will.\n", "\n\"Liberate\" is the way an invader describes an invasion, including, if\nI'm not mistaken, the Iraqi liberation of Kuwait. Never invaded\nNicaragua? Only with more word games: can you say \"send in the\nMarines?\" \n\n\nOh, good: word games. If you let the aggressor pick the words,\nthere's scarcely ever been a reprehensible military action.\n\n\n\nThat's a convenient technique, much seen on alt.atheism: define those\nwho disagree with you according to a straw-man extreme that matches\nvirtually nobody.\n\n\nVery noble and patriotic. I'm sure the fine young Americans who\ncarpet-bombed Iraqi infantry positions from over the horizon,\ndestroyed Iraq's sewer and water infrastructure from the safety of the\nsky or further, or who bulldozed other Iraqi infantry into their\ntrenches [or more importantly the commanders who ordered them to] were\njust thrilled to be risking death (if not risking it by much) in the\ndefense of the liberty of ... well, wealthy Kuwaitis. Can't have\nthose oil-fields under a tyrant's heel if that tyrant is antagonistic\nto US interests... \n\n\nHaving pigeon-holed \"peace-niks\" (in this context, \"people who\ndisagree with me about the conduct of the Gulf War\") into\n\"peace-at-all-cost-hitler-supporting-genocide-abetting-wimps\", you can\nnow express righteous indignation when \"they\" refuse to fit this mold\nand question the conduct of the war on legitimate terms. HOW DARE\nTHEY!\n\n\nYes, hypocrisy indeed! Those violent peace-niks! (Care to list an\nexample here?)\n\n\nWow: instant '80's nostalgia! [Of course, \"peace-nik\" itself is a\n'50's Cold War derogatory term equating those who promote pacifism\nwith Godless Pinko Communists]. Yes indeed, I felt my freedoms\nmightily threatened by Iraq... ", "\n\n\tOne of these days you'll learn that the way to stop Israel\nfrom fighting back is to stop attacking. If there were no attacks in\nthe security zone for a year because the Lebanese army could maintain\nthe peace, then Lebanon would be in much better shape.\n\n\tTell me something, though. Why do Syrian troops not get\nattacked? Aren't they occupying Lebanon?\n\n\tIsrael has repeatedly stated that it will leave on two\nconditions. One is a demonstration that the Lebanese army can keep\nthe peace. The second is that the Syrians pull out as well.\n\nAdam\nAdam Shostack \t\t\t\t adam@das.harvard.edu", "(Amir Y Rosenblatt) writes\n > Sam Zbib Writes\n >>No one in his right mind would sell his freedom and dignity.\n >>Palestinians are no exception. Perhaps you heard about\n >>anti-trust in the business world.\n >>\n >>Since we are debating the legality of a commercial\n >>transaction, we must use the laws governing the guidelines\n >>and ethics of such transactions. Basic ANTI-TRUST law says\n >>that, while you can purchase IBM stocks for the purpose of\n >>investing, you can not acquire a large number of those\n >>shares with the intent or controlling IBM. You can do so\n >>only if you make your intentions CLEAR apriori . Clearly,\n >>the Jews who purchased properties from palastenians had some\n >>designs, they were not buying a dwelling or a real estate.\n >They were establishing a bridgehead for the European Jews.\n >>\n >>The palastenians sold their properties to the Jews in the\n >>old tradition of arab hospitality. Being a multi-ethnic /\n >>multi-religious society, accepting the jews as neighbours\n >>was no different, just another religion. Plus they paid fair\n >>market value, etc... They did not know they were victims of\n >>an international conspiracy. (I'm not a conspiracy theorist\n >>myself, but this one is hard to dismiss).\n >>\n\n\nAmir: \nWhy would you categorize the sale of land as shafting? was\nit because it was sold to Jews? was it fair to assume that the \nfallahin would be mistreated by the jews? is this the norm of \nany commerce (read shafting) between arabs and jews? \n\nYour claim that the Lebanese/Syrian Landlords sold Palestine\n(if true, even partially) omits the fact that the mandate\ntreaty put Lebanon and Syria under French rule, while\nPalestine under british. Obiviously, any such landlord\nwould have found himself a foreigner in Palestine and would\nbe motivated to sell, regardless of the price.\n\nIt is interesting though that you acknowledge that the\npalestinians were shafted. Do many Israelis or Jews share\nyour opinion ? Do you absolve the purchaser from\nany ethical commitments just because it wasn't written down? \n\nAll told, I did not see an answer in your response. The\nquestion was whether the intent behind the purchase was\naimed at controlling the public assets (land,\ninfra-structure etc...). IMHO the Palestinians have grounds\nto contest the legality of the purchase, say in world court.\n\nSam ", "I think the Israeli press might be a tad bit biased in\nreporting the events. I doubt the Propaganda machine of Goering\nreported accurately on what was happening in Germany. It is\ninteresting that you are basing the truth on Israeli propaganda.\n", "Are you trying to say that there were no massacres in Deir Yassin\nor in Sabra and Shatila? If so then let me tell you some good jokes:\n\nThere is not and was not any such thing like jewish killing in WWII\n\nPalestinians just did what Davidians did for fourty years and more.\n\nIn fact no one was killed in any war at any time or any place.\n\nPeople die that is all. No one gets killed.\n\nMaybe also vietamiese didn't die in Vietnam war killed by american\nnapalm they were just pyromaniacs and that's all.\n\nMaybe jews just liked gas chambers and no one forced them to get in there.they \nmay be thought it was like snifing cocaine. No?\n\nWhat do you think of this ? Isn't it stupid to say so?\nWell it is as stupid as what you said .Next time you want to lie do it\nintelligently.\n\nSincerely yours.", "From: Center for Policy Research \nSubject: From Israeli press. TORTURE.\n\n/* Written 4:41 pm Apr 16, 1993 by cpr@igc.apc.org in igc:mideast.forum */\n/* ---------- \"From Israeli press. TORTURE.\" ---------- */\nFROM THE ISRAELI PRESS.\n\nNewspaper: Ma'ariv Date: 18. December 1992 Author: Avi Raz\n\nSubject: Torture\n\nTitle of article: Moderate physical pressure\n\nSeveral times in the course of the long hours in the interrogation\nroom in Tulkarm prison, during which he says he was humiliated,\nbeaten and tortured, Omar Daoud Jaber heard his interrogator, a\nShabak agent 'Captain Louis', chatting on the phone with his wife.\n\"At those moments\", Omar said, \"I felt that he was like a\nhumanbeing, but right after he finished talking, he would be beat\nme and say, 'You listened to the conversation and enjoyed\nyourself' and I understood that he was not really a human being\".\n\nIn late October 1992, after 38 days in detention at Tulkarm\nprison, Omar Jaber was released without charges. \"Among the Jews,\nas among the Arabs, there are good people and bad people\", he said\nafter his release, \"but there, in Tulkarm, in the interrogations\nrooms, you cannot find even one person about whom you can say that\nhe is a human being\". Although he left the detention installation\nin Tulkarm bruised and humiliated (\"I sat at home for ten days. My\nhands shook from nerves\"), one may consider Omar Jaber lucky: He\ngot out, not so healthy, but entire, and even ultimately returned\nto normal functioning, at the small solar heater plant he owns.\n\nIn contrast, Hassan Bader al-Zbeidi, for example, was released\nseven weeks ago from detention in Tulkarm after 33 days in the\nShabak wing, cut off from his surroundings. He doesn't speak or\nreact. Mustafa Barakat, aged only 23, who was arrested in early\nAugust and was brought to the Tulkarm detention installation, left\nit one day later - dead. \"We have recently received an especially\nlarge number of testimonies concerning cruel tortures employed at\nthe Tulkarm detention installation by Shabak interrogators\", noted\nDr. Niv Gordon, director of the Association of Israel and\nPalestinian Physicians for Human Rights. (...)\n\nThe right to complain against the Shabak does not excite Anan\nSaber Makhlouf, a 20 year old student. In fact, he was extremely\nfearful about describing the manner in which he was interrogated\nin Tulkarm prison, in case the publication in the paper would\nreturn him to detention and lead to renewed mistreatment.\n\n(...follow description of tortures....)\n\nOmar, a tall bearded man, was silent. \"I do not want to talk about\nit\", he finally said, quietly. Some time later, embarrased and\nashamed, he spoke: \"Sometimes he beats you and beats you until\nyou'll kiss his hand, and not only his hand. Even the hands of\nanother interrogator, and another, whom he calls into the room,\nlater if I want, you will kiss my ass.\"\n\nThese things take place in an Israeli army detention installation,\nlocated within the military government compound in Tulkarm (West\nBank). But the Shabak interrogation wing is a separate kingdom. In\nearly March the IDF allowed representatives of B'Tselem, the\nIsraeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Territories, to\nvisit Tulkarm prison, but denied them access to the interrogation\nwing. \"The interrogation wing is Shabak property, being solely\nunder Shabak responsibility. All interrogations are performed by\nit\", said Lieutnant Sharon Sho'an, the commander of the\ninstallation, according to the internal report written by B'tselem\nmember, Yuval Ginbar, following the visit. Major David Pe'er,\ngoverning commander of the prison system in the Central Command,\nwas quoted in the report: \"There is an ethical problem here - no\none can enter the interrogation wing\".", "\nIf you recall, a subject was raised some weeks ago that touched upon\nthis. When someone claimed that guerillas were manifestations of\npopular sentiment, the topic arose:\"When does a civilian stop\nbecoming a civilian?\". If he houses and shelters guerillas of\nhis own free will, aiding them, has he violated his \"civilian\" status?\n\n\nBut don't you see that the same statement can be made both ways?\nIf Lebanon was interested in peace then it should accept the word\nof Israel that the attacks were the cause for war and disarming the\nHizbollah will remove the cause for its continued occupancy. Afterall,\nIsrael has already staged two parts of the withdrawal from areas\nit occupied in Lebanon during SLG.\n\n\nThat is not exactly true. The Hizbollah and their affiliated groups\nhave made several attempts to infiltrate the border of Israel.\n\n\nTrue, but the Syrians did allow (until at least 1984) guerillas to operate\nin the areas that were under their control, provided that those guerillas\nwere attacking Israeli lines.\n\nThe problem is that Syria is also not as stable a partner for long term\npeace as others in the area might be.\n", "From: Center for Policy Research \nSubject: rejoinder. Questions to Israelis\n\n\nTo: shaig@Think.COM\n\nSubject: Ten questions to Israelis\n\nDear Shai,\n\nYour answers to my questions are unsatisfactory.\n\nIn the answer to my first question, concerning the nonexistence of\nIsraeli nationality, your answer conflicts with information I have\nreceived from other quarters, according to which there are two\ndistinct categories of classifying Israelis: Citizenship\n(Ezrahut) and Nationality (Le'um). The former is used on passports\netc, and the later for daily identification in Israeli society. I\nam told that people in Israel have to carry their ID cards at all\ntimes and present them at many public places, almost every day.\nThese ID cards make clear who the holder is, a Jew or an Arab.\nYou maintain that this mainly because of religious services\nprovided. But do you really believe that this is the reason ?\nCould you provide evidence that this is the case and that it\nserves no other purpose ?\n\nIn the answer to my second questions, concerning the fact that\nIsrael has no fixed borders, you state that Israel's borders were\n'shaped and reshaped by both war and peace'. According to what I\nread, the first Zionists in the beginning of the Century, had\nplans for the Jewish State to extend into what is Lebanon and into\nTransjordan (Jordan). I also read that it was the express wish of\nBen-Gurion to not declare Israel's borders, when Israel was\nestablished, as this might restrict Israel's opportunities for\nlater expansion. Israel often claims it right of existence on the\nfact that Jews lived there 2000 years ago or that God promised the\nland to them. But according to biblical sources, the area God\npromised would extend all the way to Iraq. And what were the\nborders in biblical times which Israel considers proper to use\ntoday ? Finally, if Israel wants peace, why can't it declare what\nit considers its legitimate and secure borders, which might be a\nbase for negotiations? Having all the above facts in mind, one\ncannot blame Arab countries to fear Israeli expansionism, as a\nnumber of wars have proved (1948, 1956, 1967, 1982).\n\nYour answer to my third question is typical of a Stalinist public\nofficial. I don't think your answer is honest. You refer me to\nVanunu's revelations about Israel's nuclear arsenal without\nevaluating the truthfullness of his revelations. Now if he said\nthe truth, then why should he been punished, and if he lied, why\nshould he be punished? I would appreciate more honesty.\n\nSomebody provided an answer to the fourth question, concerning\n'hidden prisoners' in Israeli prisons. He posted an article from\nMa'ariv documenting such cases. It seems that such prisoners do\nexist in Israel. What do you think about that ?\n\nYou imply that my questions show bias and are formulated in such a\nway to 'cast aspersions upon Israel'. Such terms have often been\nused by the Soviet Union against dissidents: They call the Soviet\nUnion into disrepute. If my questions are not disturbing, they\nwould not call forth such hysterical answers. My questions are\nclearly provocative but they are meant to seek facts. I would be\nvery happy if you could convince me that what I am told about\nIsrael were just fabrications, but alas you have failed to do so.\nI suspect that you fear the truth and an open and honest\ndiscussion. This is a sign of weakness, not of strength.", " \n What a lie..!!??\n\n Ask the victims of the Nazis.\n Don't take the Bosnian muslims' word for it.\n Ask the Holoucost survivors who helped them, you will hear that\n the Bosnian muslims (among others) helped them.\n\n I also do object to the term ethnic cleansing, since what is happening\n in Bosnia is not ethnic cleansing, they all have the same ethnicity,\n what is different is religion. they are Orthodox christians, Catholic \n christians, and Muslims.\n\n It's religious cleansing.\n\n Also watching people being rounded up and slaughtered by the slitting of \n the throat, raped collectively and systematically, driven out of their\n homes by the millions (!!!!), tortured in concentration camps, maimed\n and ..... does indeed amount to moral rape.\n\n Nothing in the history justifies what's happening.\n", "In his neverending effort to make sure that we do not forget \n what a moron he is, Brad Hernlem has asked why Israel rarely\n abides by UN Security Council resolutions. Perhaps the list\n below might answer the question. \n\n\n Incident Security Council Response\n ------------------------------------------------------------ \n 1. Hindu-Moslem clash in INdia, over 2,000 killed, 1990 NONE\n 2. Gassing to death of over 8,000 Kurds by NONE\n Iraqi Air Force, 1988-89 \n 3. Saudi security forces slaughter NONE\n 400 pilgrims in Mecca, 1987 \n 4. Killing by Algerian army of 500 demonstrators, 1988 NONE\n 5. Intrafada (Arabs killing Arabs) -- over 300 killed NONE\n 6. 30,000 civilians slaughtered by government NONE\n troops in Hama, Syria, 1982 \n 7. Killing of 5,000 Palestinians by Jordanian troops, NONE\n thousands expelled, Sept., 1970 \n 8. 87 Moslems killed in Egypt, 1981 NONE \n 9. 77 killed in Egyption bread riots, 1977 NONE\n 10. 30 border and rocket attacks against Israel by NONE\n the PLO in 1989 alone \n 11. Munich, 1972: 11 Israeli athletes slaughtered NONE\n 12. Ma'alot, 1974: children killed in PLO attack NONE\n 13. Israel Coastal bus attack: 34 dead, 82 wounded NONE\n 14. Syria kills 23,000 Palestinians, 1976 NONE\n 15. Lebanon: over 150,000 dead since 1975 NONE\n 16. Yemen: 13,000 killed in two weeks, 1986 NONE\n 17. Sudan: Tens of thousands of Black slaves, NONE\n Civil War toll, 1 million killed, 3 million refugees \n 18. Tienenman Square massacre 1989 NONE\n 19. Rumania, 3,000 killed, 1989 NONE\n 20. Pan Am 103 disaster carried out by the P.L.O NONE\n 21. Northern Ireland NONE\n 22. Cambodia NONE\n 23. Soviet Occupation of Afghanistan NONE\n 24. American riots at Attica, Watts, Newark, Kent State NONE\n 25. 1981: Israel destroys Iraqi reractor, Israel CONDEMNED\n 26. 1990: Israeli police protect Israeli worshipers CONDEMNED\n against Arab mob, 18 anti-Jewish rioters killed \n 27. Syrian soldiers slaughter Christian soldiers NONE\n after they surrender, 1990 ", "\n\n\nWhat the hell do you know about Israeli policy? What gives you the fiat\nto look into the minds of Israeli generals? Has this 'policy of intimidation'\nbeen published somewhere? For your information, the actions taken by Arabs,\nspecifically the PLO, were not uncommon in the Lebanon Campaign of 1982. My\nbrain is full of shit? At least I don't look into the minds of others and \nmake Israeli policy for them!\n\n\nYeah, yeah, yeah. We all suffer. It's too bad that civilians get killed but\nI will blame their Arab leaders who put them in positions of danger before I\nwill blame the Israelis. Just like Palestinians who send their children into\nwarzones to throw rocks at armed Israeli soldiers. What irresponsible parents!\nAs Golda Meir said, peace will only come when the Arabs start loving their\nchildren more than they hate the Jews.", "\nRight. We'll probably end up giving them weapons.\n\n\nDuring WWII, the British managed to supply arms to the Yugoslavs despite\nGerman occupation. If the Europeans had the will to do anything besides\nsponsoring peace conferences, they would have no problem putting any kind of\nweapon they wanted into Bosnia.\n\nI guess I would favor ending the embargo if the Congress would pass a law\nforbidding export of US military supplies to Yugoslavia, including via third\nparties. Until then the risks of the US being drawn into a more active\nrole would be too great. I do not see the arms embargo as a major factor in\nthe outcome of the war.\n\n\nBoth sides are certainly not equal in the eyes of the press. And that's\nabout all we have to go on, isn't it? \n\nAnd I wish you'd quit hurling words like racist around. There are many levels\nat which people react to what they see. At the most fundamental level, you\ndo not have to consciously recognize the racial element - you simply tend to\nempathize more with people who are like yourself. As far preferring\nChristian over Moslem, I am an atheist myself, and I think you'll agree that\nin the US, the majority of people do not typically discriminate on the basis of\nreligion, nor give it a particularly important place in their world view. \n", "\nI guess that it was not acceptable because Germany *also* chose\na path of aggression simultaneously that put the interests of\nother countries in peril. I wonder whether US or other countries\nwould have risked themselves if only Jews were persecuted and\nHitler had no imperialist ambitions. (I am no student of history\nand I am just asking questions.)\n\nIf even for a moment you think that I am condoing ethnically\nmotivated violence and killings, you are dead wrong. Let me\nassure I am not. My only question is this: Do powerful countries\nhave a moral obligation to interefere in other countries if\ntheir own interests are not threatened. I cite an essay by\nCharles Krauthammer in the Time (this week) that discusses\nthis issue eloquently.\n\nFor example, did US and other European countries abandon their\nmoral compunctions when they chose not to send military troops\nto Bombay when Hindus, in a rare fit of impassioned rage, killed\nmany Muslims recently. I think not!\n\nUnder what conditions should US interfere in foregin countries,\nis an abstraction one must clarify before resorting to acrimonious\naccusations of religious bigotry and such.\n\nSatya Prabhakar", "\nI believe that things are getting mixed here.\nCritizicing Israel and/or being anti-zionist is not seeing \"the absolute \nnegatives of that culture\". Maybe, because a person can see the positives \nof that culture is that that person opposes zionism and the actions of the\nState of Israel.\nI, for one, consider the actions of the State of Israel with respect to\nthe human rights of the Palestinian people as an example of an action thaty\nopposes what Jewish culture was suppose to uphold as an example of \nrespect and what the Jewish people learned about oppresion, segregation and\nyears in the diaspora.\n\n\n\nHe might not want to recognize that. It does not make him a self-hating\nJew, as far as I see it. At most, he is a person who is not telling\nthe truth.\n\n\n\nBut, so far, it seems that the blame is always put on \"the other\".\nIf you read this newsgroup, for example, Israel is never guilty by\nherself. She is always responding to the actions of the \"other\", and\nit goes as if the actions of Isreal do not also affect the response\nof the \"other' in a cycle that never ends. Also, there is blindness to\ntry to understand what the other feels and why.\nThere is always and excuse. There is always a rationale to explain why\nthings happen as they do.\nAnd, what is the worst part for me, there seems to be all the time an\nintention to try to de-humanize the \"other\", as if the other did not\ncare about their future, children, peace, etc, etc.\n\n", "\nActually, I find the stuff about JC being a carpenter more\ninteresting. Is there an independent source for this assertion,\nor is it all from the Christian Bible? Is there any record at\nall of anything he built? A table, a house, some stairs (Norm\nAbrams says the real test of a carpenter's skill is building\nstairs with hand tools). Did he leave any plans behind for, say\nkitchen counters and cabinets? Did he build his own cross?\nIf so, did he use pressure-treated lumber? Gotta use that\npressure-treated anywhere that wood meets concrete, but it\nholds up better anyway for mose outdoor applications. I keep\nseeing these bumper-stickers that say \"My boss is a Jewish\nCarpenter,\" but they're always on the back of Ford Escorts,\nand a real carpenter's apprentice would probably drive a\npickup, so I'm out for verification that he really was a\ncarpenter.\n\nDean Kaflowitz", "\nThe ADC is an organization of Arab-*AMERICANS*.\n\nLet me see...you're saying that \"most if not all\" Arab-AMERICANS should be\nspied on? You're also saying that \"most if not all\" Arab-AMERICANS\nshould be views as a national security threat to Israel (and the US, \nas you gratuitously imply in your reference to the WTC bombing, in \nwhich no Arab-AMERICANS were involved)? By inference, can we assume \nthat you think that anyone of Arab lineage anywhere in the world poses \na threat to Israel and, therefore, should be spied on?\n\nPerhaps, then, on the basis of Pollard spy case (not to mention the\nRosenbergs, etc.) you think that all Jewish Americans should be spied \non by the ADC.\n\nOh, never mind; this whole spying case has obviously so \nconvoluted your sense of right or wrong in these matters that I have \nno wish confuse you further.\n\n\nSo the LA times reporter who had information about him\nsold to the South African government was involved in \"anti-Israel\nactivity or propaganda\"? Are we to infer that the simple act of\nreporting an event in a newspaper constitutes \"anti-Israel\nactivity or propaganda\"? Or was it South Africa? The LA \ntimes reporter was based in South Africa, after all. \n\n", "\nLet's save some bandwidth, skip the intermediate articles and go\nstraight to the Nazis and Hitler :-)\n\n(we do have wall sockets, thank you, and they're better than yours)", "Elias' initial statement certain *is* hot air. But it seems to be\nalmost standard procedure around here to first throw out an absurb,\noverstated image in order to add extra \"meaning\" to the posting's\n*real point*. \n\nHowever, his second statement *is* quite real. The essential sealing off\nof Gaza residents from the possibility of making a living *has happened*.\nCertainly, the Israeli had a legitimate worry behind the action they took,\nbut isn't that action a little draconian?\n\n", "From: Center for Policy Research \nSubject: Poem by Erich Fried \n\n\nPoem by German-Jewish poet Erich Fried (Holocaust survivor)\n\nEin Jude an die zionistischen Kaempfer - 1988\n\n von Erich Fried\n\nWas wollt ihr eigentlich ? Wollt ihr wirklich die uebertreffen\ndie euch niedergetreten haben vor einem Menschenalter in euer\neigenes Blut und in euren eigenen Kot ?\n\n\t *\n\nWollt ihr die alten Foltern jetzt an andere weitergeben mit allen\nblutigen dreckigen Einzelheiten mit allem brutalen Genuss die\nFolterknechte wie unsere Vaeter sie damals erlitten haben ?\n\n *\n\nWollt jetzt wirklich ihr die neue Gestapo sein die neue Wehrmacht\ndie neue SA and SS und aus den Palaestinensern die neuen Juden\nmachen ?\n\n *\n\nAber dann will auch ich weil ich damals vor fuenfzig Jahren selbst\nals ein Judenkind gepeinigt wurde von euren Peinigern ein neuer\nJude sein mit diesen neuen Juden zu denen ihr die Palaestinenser\nmacht\n\n *\n\nUnd ich will sie zurueckfuehren helfen als freie Menschen in ihr\neigenes Land Palaestina aus dem ihr sie vertrieben habt oder in\ndem ihr sie quaelt ihr Hakenkreuzlehrlinge ihr Narren und\nWechselbaelge der Weltgeschichte denen der Davidstern auf euren\nFahnen sich immer schneller verwandelt in das verfluchte Zeichen\nmit den vier Fuessen das ihr nun nicht sehen wollt aber dessen Weg\nihr heut geht !\n", "\n\n\nI only want to say that I agree with Noam on this point\nand I hope that all sides stop targeting civilians.", "Let me remind all of those Muslim-haters out there who like to\nmention the Mufti's cooperation with Germany as a reason to let Muslims\nbe slaughtered everywhere in the world of the following facts:\n\n1)Why blame the Muslims for what the Nazis did and FORGIVE ITALY, THE CROATS,\nAND MANY OTHER EUROPEANS FOR BEING REAL ALLIES TO HITLER?\n\n2)Why blame Muslims for supporting Germany the enemy of their enemy\nat the time (Britain who colonized most of the middle east and was responsible\nfor most atrocities against Muslims in the region) and FORGIVE GERMANY ITSELF\nEVENTHOUGH IT IS THE ONE WHO CREATED NAZISM?\n\n3)As far as Muslims are concerned : THERE WAS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN\nNAZI GERMANY, AND ANTIMUSLIM COLONIALIST BRITAIN/FRANCE IN 1940. They were\nall racist, anti-arab, and full of arrogance and hate. WWII and the wars \nin ALgeria, Sudan, and other places proved that very clearly. Even anti-\nsemitism was not more spread in Germany than in France or Britain, it just\nhappened to be official policy in Germany.\n\nAnd we will forgive you, just set our countries free.", "\nLook nobody asked those countries about their UN forces\nto be on the ground. They can take their forces which are\nincomponent and ineffective at the first place. And let whoever are\nwilling to do the job what it takes. How anyone can defend this\nstinking UN force on the ground who let the Bosnnian PM\nyanked out from the UN vehicle and being shot by the Serbian\nmilitary? How anyone can defend this UN force who are just watching\nthe shelling on cities and towns everyday? How anyone can\ndefend and say those stinking UN forces being effective\nwhen Bosnian had almost 14,000 children casualties between 5-14 age \ngroups? I think talking about the current UN forces to Bosnian\nmuslims is just an insult to their casualties. \n\nI think Senator Biden said it all what has to be said on this issue.\nEurope is a sad place to criticize human rights in anywhere in this \nworld. Like Biden said, they are the bigots when it comes to \ncultural difference and minorty closer to their home.\nBecause they get rid of their minorities long long time\nago starting in 15th centuries. And they let Adolph\nto take care of the rest in 20th Century. But he was much more \nnaughty than they expected because he dared to step many \ntoes. So, why spoil the good thing now when Serbs doing today what \nthey were thinking the same yesterday.", "\nTo which Mark Ira Kaufman responds:\n\nMark,\nWere you one of the millions of Americans cheering the slaughter of Iraqi\ncivilians by US forces in 1991? Your comment could also apply to all of\nthem. (By the way, I do not applaud the killing of _any_ human being,\nincluding prisoners sentenced to death by our illustrious justice department)\n\nPeace.\n-marc\n\n", " . . . \n\n ^^^\nThe Syrians? Iranian agents? Or just Israeli invaders?\n--\n@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ ---------------\nGary Bradski I'net: bradski@park.bu.edu | reverberate | \nCognitive and Neural Systems ---------------\nBoston University. | V V\n111 Cummington St, Boston MA 02215 ^ Y\n617/ 353-6426 ^ ^ | ", "From: Center for Policy Research \nSubject: Arab H.R. Assoc.,Nazareth\n\n\nThe Arab Association for Human Rights\nP.O. Box 215\nNazareth, 16101 Israel\nPhone (972)-6-561923\nFax (972)-6-564934\n\nThe Arab Association for Human Rights (HRA) was \nformed in 1988 to address discriminatory practices and \nhuman rights abuses by Israel against its Palestinian \ncitizens.\n\nIt is a unique association concerned with the civil, \npolitical, economic, social and cultural rights of the \nPalestinian national minority in Israel. Among the issues \nof concern are land confiscation, education, prison \nconditions, unemployment, torture and the unequal \nallocation of Israel's resources.\n\nToday there are around 800,000 Palestinian Arabs living \nwithin the Green line (the pre-1967 borders of Israel), \nconstituting 18% of Israel's citizens. For them it is an \nempty citizenship in a system geared exclusively for the \nneeds of the Jewish population. Legally and practically, \nIsrael has proclaimed itself a Jewish state and early \npromises of equality for non-Jewish citizens have not \nbeen fulfilled. This is apparent in many areas strongly \naffecting the Palestinian national minority.\n\nMost Arab agricultural land has been confiscated since \n1948. The Arab sector is vastly underfunded and does \nnot receive a fair share of state resources. On a day-to-\nday level, Palestinians face discrimination in many \ndifferent forms and find it is a struggle to get permission \nto build a house, start a business, find a job or educate \ntheir children.\n\nACTIVITIES", "So why not condemn the Mufti for his Nazi leanings, and condemn all his\nsupporters, while also condemning the similarly genocidal killing of\ninnocents, Muslim or not, in Bosnoia-Herzegovina? Hatred and bigotry\nremain just that, no matter who practices them.", "Center for Policy Research writes...\n\n\n\n Your comparison with the Warsaw Ghetto uprising is insulting,\n and racist beyond belief. The attempts to quiet any violence\n in the Gaza Strip are just that. The efforts to quell murder\n and mayhem in the Gaza strip were the resluts of violence and\n came AFTER the violence. It was not an arbitrary racial move\n like the nazi treatment of Jews. Jews had NOT committed acts\n of violence and murder as have the residents of Gaza. I find \n your eagerness to ignore the acts of murder nothing more than\n anti-Israel bigotry.\n\n\n\n It is NOT punishment, but protection from repeated attacks by\n residents of Gaza. You self-servingly omit any references to\n WHY Israel has had to take action. Apparaently the deaths of\n innocent Israeli civilians do not enter into your equation, a\n racist ommission on your part.\n\n\n\n The right of Israel to protect its citizens from murderers is\n also recognized by international law. Israeli civilians have\n been getting stabbed to death on a daily basis. If this wave\n of murder does not matter to you, then your posturing for the\n basic human rights you claim matter so much to you is nothing\n but an anti-Israel charade.\n\n\n\n Do you know of residents of Gaza who have applied for Israeli\n citizenship and were denied? I have heard of no such denials\n taking place. Can you document this, or is this more of your\n stupid and innacurate propaganda? The truth is that if Gazan\n residents applied for citizenship, HAMAS would murder them as\n collaborators.\n\n\n\t Many Gazans are born in towns and villages located in\n\n How dare you use such a disgusting phrase. How very easy you\n attack a people, when you omit facts which fly in the face of\n your pure racism. Perhaps you are judging a people to be the\n racists that you are. Do you believe that all Jews must have \n the same bigoted makeup as you? \n \n Here's another little fly in your ointment, about the 'master \n race,' for you to avoid...\n\n Two months ago a plane with 86 Bosnian Muslims left Bosnia to\n seek asylum in the middle east. Four Arab nations refused to\n grant them asylum. Then when Israli Arabs agreed to take the\n responsibility for them, they were allowed into Israel. Yes,\n Israel. But when the plane landed, the Israeli Arabs who had\n previously agreed to take care of them refused to be involved\n with the rescue project, because they felt that it would make\n Israel look good. It was more important to avoid any good PR\n for Israel than to take care of fellow Muslims. Israel moved\n them to a kibbutz, where they are safe and secure. The truth\n is that time after time the Islamic world has turned its back\n on Muslims in need more than Israel has. Even in the case of\n the 400 deportees, Lebanon was willing to let their so-called\n Arab brothers freeze to death rather than give them sanctuary\n in Lebanon. \n\n Nearly twice as many Palestinians have been murdered by other\n Palestinians than in confrontations with Israel. Hundreds of\n thousands of Palestinians had been deported from Kuwait, just\n because they were Palestinian. The truth is that your phoney\n concern for the welfare of the Palestinians is nothing but an\n excuse to attack Israel. You are part of the ignorant effort\n to confine all concern for the welfare of the Palestinians to\n attacking Israel. But the truth is there are greater reasons\n than Israel for the plight of the Palestinians. To disregard\n Jordan or Kuwait or Saudi Arabia or any of the other oil-rich \n nations who do nothing for these people, is to use the plight \n of these poor people as a vehicle for your hatred of Jews, or\n your hatred of Israel. Anti-semitism and anti-Zionism is NOT\n the same as pro-Palestinian and anyone who insists that it is\n the same really does not give two hoots for their welfare.\n\n\n\n Your pathetic analogy is so absent of relevant fact that your\n racism cannot be disguised. Jews had never declared war on a\n Polish people. Jews had never attacked Poles with knives, or\n had used the Ghetto as a staging ground for attacks. To take\n something like the Warsaw Ghetto(the creation of which you do\n not even bother to discuss!)and the uprising that followed is\n to degrade the dead, and to show that intelligent debate on a \n difficult situation is beyond your intellectual purview. You\n clearly have never even read a single word of the Covenant of \n the Islamic Resistance Movement. Here is arguably the single\n most anti-semitic genocidal document since Mein Kampf, yet it\n is totally disregarded in your rantings. Your racism is most\n evident in your eagerness to avoid such documentation. If it\n were considered, you might actually have to deal with mideast\n problems in a balanced manner, rather than in an anti-semitic\n manner.\n\n\n\n And just how was Gaza obtained? Do you forget that Israel is\n not in the habit of grabbing land for the hell of it, but had\n taken Gaza in a war that it did not start? Did you know land\n Israel captures in wars, wars which other nations have ALWAYS\n started, aren't the same as Israel, and they are subject to a \n completely different set of international laws? Since you do\n continuously refer to international law, would you please say\n what specific international laws Israel is violating? \n \n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t This attitude\n\n I can cite 6,000,000 reasons why it is not.\n\n\n\n Where is this quote? I have never heard Rabin assert that he\n wished such a thing. Since you are in general a liar, you'll\n have to provide the entire quote, with source, or this effort\n will be regarded as just another one of your fabrications.\n\n\n\n Only you are led to ask such a loaded, racist, intellectually\n dishonest question. You inability to come to terms with what\n you are has turned you into a racist of the highest order.\n\n\n\n Why do you not feel the same compassion for the Jews of Iran,\n or Iraq, or Yemen, or Saudi Arabia, or Syria? Do you have an\n inkling of what they have endured over the past decades? Or,\n what about the plight of the Palestinians in Kuwait? Or what\n about the treatment of the Bosnian Muslims? Do you think the\n residents of Gaza are being subjected to what all the Muslims \n in Bosnia are enduring? Why are you indifferent to the death\n and suffering of people? Why do you not care that these folk\n are being exterminated? Why do you not care that only Israel\n has given any of these people safe haven? Could it be due to \n the fact that it is not Israel who is doing the killing? The\n people in Gaza are not being exterminated. They aren't being\n killed. They aren't being raped. They aren't being starved.\n They aren't being driven from their lands. They are not kept\n from receiving food or other supplies. But the Bosnians are.\n And the ONLY country which has provided some sanctuary to the\n Bosnian Muslims is the same nation that you have devoted your \n life to attacking, in the guise of compassion. \n\n Your rantings are so unfettered by the burden of intellectual\n honesty that you ought to take a deep breath and ask yourself\n what your real motives are. Do not flatter yourself into the\n belief that truth or compassion are what drives you. In your\n case, it is clear that hate beats out love every time. Maybe\n you are burdened with some kind of guilt for having been born\n a Jew. It is obvious that your hatred of your own Judaism is\n being dumped on all other Jews. Why else would you suggest a\n racist idea like breeding Jews out of existence? Maybe these\n fits of anti-semitism are a result of being cut off from your \n own people for an extended period. Whatever the case may be, \n it is clear that you are not what you have labored so hard to \n appear to be. When you realize that you can't care for other \n people while you hate yourself you might actually begin to do \n some good.", "\n\nYes, victims exist. There are a staggering number of victims in the world and\nmore each day. I think on balance, intervention would create more victims,\nincluding American ones. Since the first responsibility of the US government\nis to protect Americans, I think they serve that role best by staying away\nfrom Bosnia and other regional conflicts.\n\n\nOf course not. The Jews were not trying to carve a territory out of Germany\neither, and except for small-scale resistance and a few larger uprisings, did\nnot have an army or a government.\n\n\nI see the pattern of atrocities as a fairly often practiced tactic of a\ncolonizing power - driving away and/or eliminating the population of an\narea they want to control. The US tried basically that in Vietnam, the Iraqis\nin Kuwait, the Israelis in Palestine, South Africa, etc, etc, etc. It sucks,\nit's ugly, and it's saddening. But it is not genocide.\n\nIt is not my impression that the Serbs want to eliminate every Muslim in\nYugoslavia. I still say the Bosnians are getting their asses kicked; they\nshould surrender and evacuate the areas they can't hold.\n\n\nI am a staunch Republican, BTW. The irony of arguing against military\nintervention with arguments based on Vietnam has not escaped me. I was opposed\nto US intervention in Somalia for the same reasons, although clearly it was\nnot nearly as risky.\n\n\nWell, one thing you have to remember is, the press likes a good story. Good\nfor business, don't you know. And BTW, not \"everyone\" wants to help the\nside that is less like us.\n\nI never said the two sides were morally equivalent, I said neither one is\ninnocent.\n\nThere are just too many good reasons to stay away:\n\n1) The Europeans are perfectly able to deal with this dispute on their borders\n in any way we do it. Put another way, we have no assistance to offer the\n Europeans which they do not already possess themselves. It is not good to\n promote the idea in anyone's mind that the United States is responsible\n for cleaning up every bloody mess in the world.\n\n2) Clinton is not the man to lead this country into a military adventure. Full\n stop.", "\n\n\n\nJust to address this one point, what about the two Katyusha rocket \nattacks made within Lebanon, for which Fatah claimed responsibility.\nI didn't realize that one can use Katyushas while onr is disarmed.\nAlso, Page 8 of today's New York Times, Faisal Saleh, a high ranking \nFatah official, and his 9 month old son were gunned down in Beirut \nby members of Abu Nidal. There have been 46 assasination attempts \nin 1993 alone in the fued between these two factions, resulting in\n11 deaths.", "\n\nI am fairly sure that she could obtain citizenship by making an\napplication for it. It might require immigration to Germany, but\nI am almost certain that once applied for citizenship is inevitable\nin this case.\n\n\n\n\nMore interesting only for your propaganda purposes. I have said several\ntimes now that I don't consider Iran particularly exemplary as a good\nIslamic state. We might talk about the rights of people in \"capitalist\nsecular\" third world countries to give other examples of the lack of\nrights in third world countries broadly. Say, for example, Central\nAmerican secular capitalist countries whose govt's the US supports\nbut who Amnesty International has pointed out are human rights vacua.\n", "\nThe whole \"saddam is going to invade Saudi Arabia\" was nothing but US State\nDepartment propeganda. Saddam (and Iraq in general) never recognised the \nBritish created Kuwait. They were trying to recover land they believed\nwas theirs, much like the Argentines in the Faulklands. The Kuwaitis pushed\njust a little too far by taking Iraqi oil and Saddam thought he'd settle\nthe dispute the old fashioned way...\nEverybody would have been much better off had they left the reunited Iraq\ntogether and concentrated on taking out Saddam. A strong, united Iraq with\nan elected government would have gone a long way to ridding the world of\nthe feudal dictatorships in the Gulf.\nBut of course a weak divided Arab people better suits US foriegn policy...", " The operation going on in Somalia is a peacekeeping/peaceenforcement\n operation where force may be used. It is not a war. It is also legal\n under international law, which is higher than US law. The operation\n is occuring under the ageis of the United Nations. Can't get a higher\n authority than that on this earth.\n", "\n[my previous posting deleted]\n\n\nThe poster casually trashed two thousand years of Jewish history, and \nKen replied that there had previously been people like him in Germany.\n\nThat's right. There have been. There have also been people who\nwere formally Nazis. But the Nazi party would have gone nowhere\nwithout the active and tacit support of the ordinary man in the\nstreet who behaved as though casual anti-semitism was perfectly\nacceptable.\n\nNow what exactly don't you understand about what I wrote, and why\ndon't you see what it has to do with the matter at hand?", "\njust picked out this one point because it struck me....\nwhy do you believe this? muslims believe in many of the same things\nthat christians and jews believe; they believe jesus, while not the\nmessiah, is a prophet. this seems to me to be much closer to\nchristianity than other religions are. (then again i tend to be\nsomewhat liberal about others' beliefs.)\n\nthis also relates to the serbian \"ethnic cleansing\" question. i have\nbeen waiting for condemnations of this and have seen very few. HOW\ncan we stand by and watch innocent people, even people whose beliefs\nwe condemn, if this is the case (and don't get me wrong, the things\nfundamenalist muslims have to say about women make my blood boil), be\ntortured, raped (the stories about that made me physically ill), and\nkilled? jesus loves all, not just those who love him back -- and he\nwould advocate kindness toward them (in the hopes of converting them,\nif that's the way you want to put it) rather than killing them. \n\ni'm sorry i got off the subject here -- maybe i should have used a\ndifferent title. i did need to get this off my chest, however.\n\npeace (shalom),\nvera shanti\n_______________________________________________________________________________\nHand over hand\t\t\t\tnoye@midway.uchicago.edu\nDoesn't seem so much\t\t\t(Vera Noyes)\nHand over hand\t\t\t\t\nIs the strength of the common touch\tdrop me a line if you're in the mood\n\t- Rush, \"Hand Over Fist\"\n_______________________________________________________________________________\n\n[I am also worried about this issue. I've made a posting under my own\nname earlier today. I do not much want to discuss Moslem beliefs\nhere. This isn't the right group for it. Their beliefs about Jesus\nappear to come as much from the Koran as the Bible. This means that\nwhile they honor him, what they think he did and stood for differs in\nmany ways from Christian beliefs about him. But Moslem beliefs are\nan appropriate topic for soc.religion.islam.\n\nAs I'm sure you know, many Christians believe that you must accept\nChrist in order to be saved. While Stanley's comment appears to be\nanti-Moslem, I would assume he would say the same thing about all\nreligions other than Christianity.", "(Please note followup)\nIn <1993Apr27.012045.8543@Virginia.EDU> ab4z@Virginia.EDU (\"Andi\n\n\nComparing Israel to Nazi Germany is name-calling of the lowest kind.\nPlease don't be disingenuous.\n\n\nDo civil libertarians make no distinction between the Nazis and\nIsrael? Would you say that the Iraqis are like the Nazis?\n\nIf you do not make such distinctions, then all injustices are\nequally evil, and the world is a completely evil place. In that\ncase, we may as well give up right now.\n", "Sorry guys for this long article, but in fact it is mostly quotings..\n\n \n\nwell, if you just waited for 5 more lines you would have read my statement\n\"Secondly, surely israeli have human rights, but ...\"\n\n\nbecause they belong to the human race, or do you disagree on that too ?\n\n\nI donot know about you, but it makes full sense to me.\nIsraelis are being killed because Israel is occupying , Let israel withdraw\nand israeli blood will be saved. It isNOT the palestineans who undermined\nthe right of life of israelis, but it is israel which occupied and exposed \nthe life of its citizens to the the unconcluded war of 1967 !\n\nMore generally, the violence in the occupied terretories is part of the intifada,\nand i had previously posted a \"long\" article about this issue, whom i finished\nby an open question:\nSuppose the Intifada stops, What is the motive for Israel to withdraw ?\ndonot tell hope for peace and this bullshit. Everybody in the world looks\nand hopes for peace, so why isnot there any. hope of peace is necessary\nbut not sufficient motive.\n\n\n\nAs for the Arabian countries, their problems are an Arabian concern. \nthe Arabian people can deal with it themselves, if the west doesnot intervene.\nAs for Serbs, I donot think that those FUCKED UP RAPISTS (excuse my language\nbut it really hurts as much if I was in Bosnia itself) areNOT humans. Those\nsurely came from outer space or something. No human can allow himself\nto see such attrocities than to participate in.\n \n\nOk.\n\n\nMy definition is the same as yours, but one has to look into the world politics.\nIn politics, a \"solution\" doesNOT imply \"JUST solution\".\n\n\nIt seems that it was problem in the definition of \"solution\".\nI think a solution must be just, because otherwise it would never be lasting.\nHowever, when politicians say a solution, they donot mean a just solution but \njust a solution.\n\n", "In responding to the post below I have considered issues far outside the\nscope of revisionism and principally have considered the political\nimplications of a racist ideology and its inevitable outcome. Thus it\nis tangentially relevant to soc.history and alt.revisionism but I have directed\nfollowups to t.p.m since it is principally consideration of the political\nlessons to be drawn from the history of the NAZI party that I deal with.\n\n\n\n\nLet us assume for the sake of argument that this was indeed the case? Does\nthis mean that Hilter would have been in any way less guilty of mass murder\nbecause he aquiesced rather than participated as an active and ardent\nsupporter?\n\nOne of the important things to realise about the NAZIs is that the system\nwas far more evil than any single member. Once created the NAZI party\nitself was a murder machine that would inevitably commit genocide, there was\nnoone within it strong enough to prevent it. Remember that Hitler did not\noriginaly lead the NAZI party nor was he particularly powerful within it\nuntil his oratory allowed the party to come to power. Had Hitler reneged\nupon the emotiaonal expectations which he had created within the ranks of \nhis supporters he would have been replaced as he had himself replaced the\nold guard who he beleived were unable to grasp the intellectual implications\nof their rhetoric. \n\nThis is why all parties that espouse NAZI style race supremacy ideologies must\nbe considered as dangerous and as evil as the NAZIs. The idea that one \"race\"\nof people is inherently superior to another and that the greatest goal of\nhumanity is to achieve racial perfection has only one logical outcome,\nthe gas chambers of Auschwitz.\n\nThe NAZI party is not simply the tale of a supremely evil single man who\nlead an entire country astray, beyond the evil of individuals there was the\nevil of the system itself which was self generating and self perpetuating.\nHitler was an extreemly evil person who built his party arround an ego\ncult centered on the demonstration of his own power, this does not however\nmean that he was as entirely free from political constraints as he and\nhis propagandists worked so hard to assert. The myth that racism can\nproduce a strong government that can cure a nations ills must be \nemphatically rejected. In the same way we must accept a distinction between\na govenrment that demonstrates its strength and one that is able to \ngovern decisively in the manner it beleives is best. I would accept only the\nlatter as a \"strong\" government since most displays of strength are made\nnecessary by an essential weakness.\n\nIt is important to understand that the NAZIs were not stupid nor were they\namoral in the sense that they lacked moral scruples. They acted in the\nsame manner as the Spanish Inquisition - murder and torture in the cause\nof morality. The fault of the NAZIs lies in their axioms, not in their\nlogic nor in their implementation of those axioms. Thus all such parties\nsuch as the National Front or David Dukes Klu Klux Klan front who assert\nthe truth of those axioms must be considered for what they are, advocates\nof a system that would commit genocide. \n\nThe conclusion that Hitler was not only responsible but imensely evil is\ninescapable from the historical record. It is important though to not let\nthe conclusion be reached that the NAZIs espoused a set of ideas that\nwere basically correct but had an unfortunate proponent. The evils of\nthe concept of race supremacy are primary. Although this most emphaticaly\ndoes not excuse individual culpability this is nevertheless secondary.\n\nNo matter what the promises made by a racist, supremacist party upon \nelection those promises will be broken as soon as circumstances permit.\nIf this requires the replacement of the leaders that originally made\nthe pledges, that will occur. Hatred is a supreme justifier. It also creates\na dynamic of its own when those in government allow it reign. For many\nin government politics is a method of providing a justification for\ntheir own existence through a demonstration of their importance. A \nrhetoric of hatred inevitably develops the question of action since the\ncontinued existence of an object of hatred is inevitably a reminder of the\nessential impotence of the politician. Thus we have the US raid on Tripoli\nwhich has little purpose beyond a demonstration of power. It is important\nto realise that there is no quantum jump between the politics of the right\nand those of the extreeme right but a progression from the reinforcement\nof popular predjudice to action being taken on the basis of that predjudice.\nIn the same way the extreeme left trace their route to despotism through\ntheir assertion of the subjugation of the individual to ideology.\n\nIt is important though that in attempting to understand the dynamics\nof political systems that this is not used to excuse the participants. The\nleaders of a nation take on a supreme moral burden but not only do\nso voluntarily are required to stive to do so. Thus to take on such a \ntask without a fundamental examination of the logical progression of\nones set of axioms to its conclusion in itself is a moral crime. Furthermore\nin taking on such a duty one is obliged to put the interest of the whole\nbefore personal concerns, even of personal security.\n\nAlthough it was inevitable that a party such as the NAZIs, based upon hatred\nand an idolisation of the symbols of power should have saught to commit\ngenocide it was not inevitable that they should succeeded. Each member of\nthe system had an ability to create a change within it that had a possibility\nof changing the dynamic. Realising that the individual cannot hope to \ncontrol a system does not mean accepting that the individual cannot \naffect the system.\n", "I am trying to follow the current conflict in former Yugoslavia. One thing\nI cannot figure out is where do the Serbs and Croats get their weapons,\netc? Don't they run out of them?", "# |> >\n# |> >It is NOT a \"terrorist camp\" as you and the Israelis like \n# |> >to view the villages they are small communities with kids playing soccer\n# |> >in the streets, women preparing lunch, men playing cards, etc.....\n# |> >SOME young men, usually aged between 17 to 30 years are members of\n# |> >the Lebanese resistance. Even the inhabitants of the village do not \n# |> >know who these are, they are secretive about it, but most people often\n# |> >suspect who they are and what they are up to. These young men are\n# |> >supported financially by Iran most of the time. They sneak arms and\n# |> >ammunitions into the occupied zone where they set up booby traps\n# |> >for Israeli patrols. Every time an Israeli soldier is killed or injured\n# |> >by these traps, Israel retalliates by indiscriminately bombing villages\n# |> >of their own choosing often killing only innocent civilians. \n# |> \n# |> This a \"tried and true\" method utilized by guerilla and terrorists groups:\n# |> to conduct operations in the midst of the local populace, thus forcing the\n# |> opposing \"state\" to possible harm innocent civilians in their search or,\n# |> in order to avoid the deaths of civilians, abandon the search. Certainly the\n# |> people who use the population for cover are *also* to blaim for dragging the\n# |> innocent civilians into harm's way.\n# |> \n# |> Are you suggesting that, when guerillas use the population for cover, Israel\n# |> should totally back down? So...the easiest way to get away with attacking\n# |> another is to use an innocent as a shield and hope that the other respects\n# |> innocent lives?\n# \n# Tell me Tim, what are these guerillas doing wrong? Assuming that they are using\n# civilians for cover, are they not killing SOLDIERS in THEIR country? If the\n# buffer zone is to prevent attacks on Israel, is it not working? Why is it \n# further neccessary for Israeli guns to pound Lebanese villages? Why not just\n# kill those who try to infiltrate the buffer zone? You see, there is more to\n# the shelling of the villages.... it is called RETALIATION... \"GETTING BACK\"\n# ...\"GETTING EVEN\". It doesn't make sense to shell the villages. The least\n# it shows is a reckless disregard by the Israeli government for the lives of\n# civilians.\n\n Please clarify your standards for rules of engagement. As I\n understand it, Israelis are at all times and under all\n circumstances fair targets. Their opponents are legitimate\n targets only when Mirandized, or some such?\n\n I'm sure that this makes perfect sense if you grant *a*priori*\n that Israelis are the Black Hats, and that therefore killing\n them is automatically a Good Thing (Go Hezbollah!). The\n corollary is that the Hezbollah are the White Hats, and that\n whatever they do is a Good Thing, and the Israelis only prove\n themselves to be Bad Guys by attacking them.\n\n This sounds suspiciously like a hockey fan I know, who cheers\n when one of the players on His Team uses his stick to permanently\n rearrange an opponent's face, and curses the ref for penalizing\n His Side. Of course, when it's different when the roles are\n reversed.", "Avi,\n For your information, Islam permits freedom of religion - there is\nno compulsion in religion. Does Judaism permit freedom of religion\n(i.e. are non-Jews recognized in Judaism). Just wondering.", "\nI am replying to this because I haven't seen anyone else do so yet. It\nseems rather odd really as there are so few really wierd posters left\nwho aren't fascists or Arab extremists.\n\n\nYes it was and it was clearly admitted so by the troops who carried it\nout and then stupidly deposited testimony in their own archives to that\neffect.\n\n\nSource? Noone is claiming this anymore except you. Would you like\nto name one credible historian who asserts this? I believe that\neven Begin has the decency not to claim this.\n\n\nYes they did and thye said so - they said they went their with the\nintention of killing all the men and all the women who got in their\nway. Their *own* archives remember, this is not hostile testimony.\n\n\nSound van bogged down in a ditch. No warning given.\n\n\nYes it was and no it was not. It was a massacre - the murder of hundreds\nof unarmed civilians who had no part in the fighting. The surviving men\nwere taken to the local quarry and shot in the back of the head. Not\nintentional? Yeah right.\n\n\nNo it did not - you have a source for this slander of course?\n\n\nThe men involved said clearly that the intention was to kill all the\nmen. It was a premeditated mass murder nothing else.\n\n\nOn that we agree at least.\n\n\nYes they did want to kill the inhabitants and many of them were killed.\nThis is of course simple to resolve, the Haganah sent a soldier to report\non the massacre. He brought a photographer with him. He sent in a report.\nThe Israeli government suppressed it. Now the government was a Labour\nGovernment. Since then the Revisionists have gotten into power but for\nsome reason Likud didn't release the report and its pictures either.\nPerhaps you might want to tell me why? If it happened as you claim then\nthere will be no pictures of men shot in the head with their hands tied\nbehind their backs, no women and children shot as they slept. Yet for\nsome reason they did not take the chance to clear their own name. You\nhave a reason for this don't you? I somehow doubt it. The facts are\nexactly as the people responsible claim - a premeditated mass murder\nnothing else. No Iraqi soldiers, no other fighting. Just ethnic cleansing\nat work.\n\nJoseph Askew\n", "I like what Mr. Joseph Biden had to say yesterday 5/11/93 in the senate.\n\nCondemening the european lack of action and lack of support to us plans \nand calling that \"moral rape\".\n\nHe went on to say that the reason for that is \"out right religious BIGOTRY\"\n", "\n\n\nJust a couple of days ago, I heard on the radio news that a Neo-Nazi\norganization had set up a BBS to keep its members informed. According\nto the radio man, the Nazis were using encryption to reduce their risk\nif they were prosecuted. No, I do not have any more information.\n\nHave fun.\n", "\n\n\nHow would you deal with Arabs who ALWAYS threaten to drive you into the sea or\nburn half your conuntry? Would you talk nicely? Would you say please? You\nwouldn't. The language of the middle east is power and force. Sorry - that\nis the way it is now. If you aren't strong, you go down. Israel has to talk \nand act tough. Notice, Israel talks and acts tough in battle, but is willing\nto talk peace.\n\n\n\nTrue - and they have brainwashed their people into thinking Jews are some sort\nof monsters. Arab non-recognition of Israel and support of war and terror\nis also an important factor, wouldn't you say?\n\n\nWhat do you want Israel to do? They are negotating? I'm sick of people calling\nfor Israel to withdraw from the territories now. That's not realistic, don't\nyou realize that? A solution must be negotiated. It is on the table. Have\npatience. ", "\n\n\nIs there any Israeli a civilian, in your opinion ?\n\nNow, I do not condone myself bombing villages, any kind of villages.\nBut you claim these are villages with civilians, and Iraelis claim they are \ncamps filled with terrorists. You claim that israelis shell the villages with the\n'hope' of finding a terrorist or so. If they kill one, fine, if not, too bad, \ncivilians die, right ? I am not so sure. \n\nAs somebody wrote, Saddam Hussein had no problems using civilians in disgusting\nmanner. And he also claimed 'civilians murdered'. Let me ask you, isn't there \nat least a slight chance that you (not only, and the question is very general, \nno insult) are doing a similar type of propaganda in respect to civilians in\nsouthern Lebanon ?\n\nNow, a lot people who post here consider 'Israeli soil' kind of Mediteranean sea.\nHow do you define Israeli soil ? From what you say, if you do not clearly \nrecognize the state of Israel, you condone killing israelis anywhere.\n\n\nI do not know what was the pupose of the action you describe. If it was \nto kill civilians (I doubt), I certainly DO NOT CONDONE IT. If civilians were \nkilled, i do not condone it. \n\n\n\n\n\nMr. Hernlem, it was YOU, not ME, who was showing a huge satisfaction for 3 \nisraelis (human beings by most standards, Don't know about your standards) killed.\n\nIf you ask me those questions, I will have no problem answering (not with a \nquestion, as you did) : No, NOBODY is qualified candidate for murder, nothing\njustifies murder. I have the feeling that you may be able yourself to make\nsimilar statements, maybe after eliminating all Israelis, jews, ? Am I wrong ?\n\n\nNow tell me, did you also condone Saddam's scuds on israeli 'soldiers' in, let's\nsay, Tel Aviv ? From what I understand, a lot of palestineans cheered. What does\nit show? It does not qualify for freedom fighting to me ? But again, I may be \nwrong, and the jewish controlled media distorted the information, and I am just\nan ignorant victim of the media, like most of us.\n", " \n[TC] Do you, as I do, agree that this (sort) of \"peace process\" is needed?\n[TC] What about the particular points mentioned in the article? Is what\n[TC] Israel is (supposedly) going to propose \"good\"? Does it go too far?\n[TC] Not far enough?\n\n[TC] If you don't agree that a \"peace process\" is needed, what is?\n\nI personally think that a peace process is needed, since only through\nnegotiations will the future generations be able to live in stability.\nUnfortunately not all think like this, we have cases like:\n\tAnas Omran, Hamza Saleh, Jle, Mohammed Reza, Mehmed Abu-Abed, \nAnwar Mohammed and others who think that JIHAD is the only solution. \n\nI wish that people (including myself) would have more objective views like Tim,\nBasil and Shai for example and put the rhetoric aside and start discussing\n\"substance\".\n\nMy view is that Israel has made more gestures towards its Arab foes than the\nopposite. What have the Sysrians given to us or proposed? What have the\nPalestinians proposed? If the Palestinians would just revoke or rewrite their \ncharter, or just condemn acts of Palestinian violence that would be a good\nstart.\nThe Palestinians have all to gain from these negotiations. Its seems though\nthat they are not strong enough to make decisions on their own and are\nplagued by internal strife, that is why we are not getting anywhere.\nFundamentalism is slowly taking over in the territories, then it will be\ntoo late to discuss issues with the Palestinians since they will only\nvow for the destruction of Israel.\nArabs must take example on Egypt. Egypt came to the bargaining table,\ngot what it wanted from Israel and there is now peace and cooperation\nbetween the two countries. \nThe tougher you play ball with Israel the tougher Israel gets.\n\nTsiel\n\n\nTsiel", "Subject: Re: PLEASE! SHOW UP IN WASHINGTON DC FOR BOSNIA (MAY 15th)\nFrom: Nick Jovanovic, jovanovic-nick@yale.edu\nDate: 12 May 1993 17:19:43 -0400\n\nNo, I'm not claiming 2,000,000 have been killed. We are in the middle of\nthe genocide process that Mr. Major has given yet another \"green light\"\nto. Mladic seems to have most of what he wants, but Boban is just\ngetting his appetite whetted. Because Mladic refuses to allow\ninternational observers to inspect mass-grave sites and killing centers\nin places like Foca, Brcko, and Visegrad, it will be years before we have\nan accurate account of the number killed. \n\nIn practical terms, it would be impossible to kill all 2,000,000. There\njust isn't the kind of machinery of crematoria and gas chambers and\ntransportation lines that the Nazis took 8 YEARS to develop. And\nremember, the Nazis killed minorities in the countries they occupied. To\nactually kill 42% of the population requires extreme genocidal\norganization. \n\nBut I do claim that the goal of the genocide is the systematic\nannihilation of Bosnian Muslim culture, by killing as many as is\nfeasible, by rape, by torture, by the demolition of mosques, libraries,\nand culture artificts, the burning and renaming of villages, the shelling\nof civilians. So that there won't be any of the 2,000,000 or so Muslims\nwhose lives have not been shattered by the genocide, though they still\nmay be alive.\n\nAnd Mr. Major not only finds this acceptable, he helps it along by making\nsure that the victims don't have arms to defend themselves.\nMike.", "Mr. water-head,\ni never said that israel diverted lebanese rivers, in fact i said that\nisrael went into southern lebanon to make sure that no \nwater is being used on the lebanese\nside, so that all water would run into Jordan river where there\nisrael will use it !#$%^%&&*-head.", "Well,I tried not to get involved in this never ending talk,but,man,I REALLY got\nhot about this bullshit.\n\n\nMaking stupid and idiot jokes about soliders will not bring anything (not\nmentioning peace or agreement). I also know several tens of jokes about arabs\n(palestinians) but I DO NOT post them to Usenet (Anyway,not to THIS newsgroup),\nsince I don't think I will achieve any target but making other parts furious,and\nthis is NOT my target.\nIf this is your target...well...that tells a lot about you.\n\n\n\nDid you really think he is talking about something realistic?\n\n\nYeah,well,sometimes,when cowards put their children and wives in the front line,\nso their enemy cannot do anything,well,maybe in those cases,you have no better\nthing to do (to save your life) than shooting. And if parents want their\nchildren alive,I think it would be better that before they get out to throw\nstones/molotov botlles,or when they come to kill soliders,to keep their children\nin the houses.\n\n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^----\\/\n Look in the dictionary at the word \"terrorism\"! It\n\t\t\t esp for political purposes.\n\t\t\t It sounds more like your guys...\n\n\nYeah? Well,I guess you were in there,and you know it all...\n\n ^^^^^^^^^^---\\/\n Where from do you know that it was \"on purpose\"?\n\t\t\t Personally,I didn't hear about this case,although\n\t\t\t I don't deny it.But how can ANYBODY,besides the\n\t\t\t person itself,can say it was \"on purpose\"?\n\n\nYeah,sure.The truck driver looked in the car with his Zionist Equipment of\nDetecting Palestinian Children,and then he thought to himself:Hey there is a\n5 year and 2 weeks girls in the car.Why won't I make an accident and kill\nthe \"enemy\"? Maximum I will die too in the crash...But what do I care?...\n\n\nWell,It was about 3 years ago ,in the Intifada (The fact that you can't\nremember the time prooves how much do you care about it). I DO NOT think\nthat what the soliders did was correct. But I will not agree that they \"were\nbreaking their arms\".I saw that film,and,unlike in the USA,it was broadcasted\nentirely not long ago (in a talk show) and at the end the \"arm-broken\" guys got\nup and walked and used their arms very good. They guy who did it was interviewed\nand he said he did it because the terrorist or whatever he was refused to take\nhis orders,and spitted in his face. What ammount of truth exist in this\nstatement I cannot tell you,because I wasn't there. But the guy who did it was\nin prison,if it makes you any good.\n\n\nNo,it didn't. The Israeli army is still the most important army in the midlle\neast.It is still the only human army(as much as an ARMY can be human).To any\nAmerican who will claim the opposite,I can only remember the CNN broadcasting\nof the American Solider who beat a Somalian boy. It was very cruel to see.But\nI won't say because of this that the American army is cruel.\n\n\nSome kind of proof! \"Obvious\"? Where from? If you say it is behind the scenes,\nhow do you know about it?\n\n\n\nI just wanted to show how much garbadge one can say,without knowing ANYTHING\nabout what he says,and living a life far away from the place he talks about.", "\n\n\nAs usual, when Salah is not totally racist, she manages to get\nvirtually all the facts wrong.\n\nAssad pledged to allow Jews to leave Syria, but not to go to Israel.\n\nUnfortunately, not all of them have escaped yet, but not because they\ndon't want to leave; rather, Assad went back on his word and stopped\nissuing travel permits. He claimed bureaucratic snags, but everyone\nknows it was a tactic to pressure Israel.", "From: Center for Policy Research \nSubject: From Israeli press: Nazi methods.\n\n/* Written 4:38 pm Apr 16, 1993 by cpr@igc.apc.org in igc:mideast.forum */\n/* ---------- \"From Israeli press: Nazi methods.\" ---------- */\nFROM THE ISRAELI PRESS\n\nNewspaper: Ha'aretz Date: 14 February1993 Author: Gideon Levi\n\nSubject: NAZI methods in Gaza\n\nTitle: In the neighborhood of Hope, among the rubble\n\n(Excerpts)\n\nMahmoud Jowara'r stared at me long and sadly: \"I worked my entire\nlife in order to built that house and this is what is left\". Only\nTV could transmit the full sadness of his face. \"You say that we\nteach our children to hate you, but what do you expect to happen\nto a child who sees this ?\" And once again he wraps himself in a\nlengthy silence, his face crumbling into weeping. Mahmoud stood in\nthe field of rubble that was once his home. The term\n'dispossession' has an absolute meaning here. Nothing is left of\nwhat he accumulated during his entire life, only the rubble of a\nhouse and shreds of belongings.\n\nOnce again Khan Yunis. Once again demolished homes. Last Thursday\nthere was a search for wanted people here. Once again the IDF\nforces employed the new method, fired and bombed and shot missiles\nand placed explosives. Already three times during the past weeks I\nhave gone out to see the destruction and each time I was more\nhorrifying scenes. This time they hit the largest number of\nhouses, 17 according to the IDF estimate, ten of them completely\ndemolished. But not only that: the method has also become more\nbrutal. Three weeks ago, in Tufah neighborhood in Gaza, the\nresidents were still told to remove their valuables from their\nhomes. This time the army skipped that part; three weeks ago the\nhandcuffed men, inhabitants of the demolished homes, were supplied\nwith some water and one apple during the 12 hours they had to\nstand. This time there was only water. Three weeks ago they were\neven allowed to go out to the toilet. This time the soldier just\ngold them: Piss and shit in your pants. And thus, last Thursday,\nsome 45 men stood for about 12 hours, their hands bound behind\ntheir backs, their eyes blindfolded, without food, with wet pants\non their legs and a terrible feeling of humiliation in their\nhearts, listening to the sounds of the explosions destroying their\nhomes, one after the other.\n\n(...)", " I have never seen such immaturity among semitophiles. This\nAndi Beyer character shows no signs of anti semitism, yet\nbecause he deviates from the norm of accepted opinion, you\nattack him. Why did not anyone venture to answer Andi's\nquestion in an intelligent and unoffending manner? The only\nones guilty here of not backing up there viewpoints with fact\nare the Israelophiles. Now will we please start having some\nINTELLIGENT conversation? You all are an insult to you race!\n{assuming you are also semitic}\n\tNow I have a comment concerning Israeli terrorism\nduring the 1930's and 1940's. The Hirgun, and other branch -\noff militant groups, did fight the British do get them out of\nPalestine. Yet I fail to see how this Israeli form of\nterrorism was better than the terrorism practiced now by the\nArabs. These Jewish terrorist groups killed innocent British\nsoldiers, but not only thta also killed many Jews who were in\nfavor of a compromise with the Palestinians. In addition, they\nmassacred an entire Palestinian village in 1948, contributing\nto the exodus of the frightened Palestinians who feared their\nvery lives.\n\tI mention this not because I'm anti semitic [I'm part\nJewish] but because this self righteousness on the part of the\nIsraelites pisses me off so. I'm not as critical of the\nPalestinians because they were indeed screwed over by the\nJews. It 's a damn shame that the Palestinians had to pay for\nGerman and European anti semitism.", "\n\nThe idea of the U.S, or any other nation, taking action, i.e., military\nintervention, in Bosnia has not been well thought out by those who \nadvocate such action. After the belligerants are subdued, it would require\nan occupation force for one or two generations. If you will stop and\nthink about it, you will realize that these people have never forgotten\na single slight or injury, they have imbibed hatred with their mother's\nmilk. If we stop the fighting, seize and destroy all weapons, they will\nsimply go back to killing each other with clubs. And the price for this\nfutility will be the lives of the young men and women we send there to\ndie. A price I am unwilling to even consider.\n\n\nThere is no valid comparison to the Holocaust. All of the Jewish people\nthat I have known as friends were not brought up to hate. To be wary of\nothers, most certainly, but not to hate. And except for the Warsaw\nuprising, they were unarmed (and even in Warsaw badly out-gunned).\nIt is very easy to speak of muscle when they are someone else's muscles.\nSuppose we do this thing, what will you tell the parents, wives, children,\nlovers of those we are sending to die? That they gave their lives in some noble cause? Noble cause, separating some mad dogs who will turn on them.\n\nWell, I will offer you some muscle. Suppose we tell them that they have\none week (this will give foreign nationals time to leave) to cease\ntheir bloodshed. At the end of that week, bring in the Tomahawk firing\nships and destroy Belgrade as they destroyed the Bosnian cities. Perhaps\nwhen some of their cities are reduced to rubble they will have a sudden\nattack of brains. Send in missiles by all means, but do not send in\ntroops.\n\n\nBy all means lift the embargo.\n\n\nWhich killers? Do you honestly believe they are all on one side?", "\nMr. Salah, why are you such a homicidal racist? Do you feel this\nsame hatred towards Christans, or is it only Jews? Are you from\na family of racists? Did you learn this racism in your home? Or\nare you a self-made bigot? How does one become such a racist? I\nwonder what you think your racism will accomplish. Are you under\nthe impression that your racism will help bring peace in the mid-\neast? I would like to know your thoughts on this.\n", "\nProviding safety and security for one's own people is the most\nfundamental responsibility of any political entity. For the Palestinian\nleadership to refuse to accept this responsibility, i.e. take the\nresponsibility to protect their people from radical Palestinian elements\nwho are opposed to the peace process, is reprehensible. To argue that a\nPalestinian police force would be established in order to control peaceful\npolitical groups only reinforces the reality that the Palestinian\nleadership, so far, can not exercise control over radical Palestinian\nelements nor effectively deal with the killing of Palestinians by\nPalestinians. This is a problem that can only be solved by the\nPalestinian people.\n", "\nDorin,\nLet's not forget that the soldiers were killed not murdered. The\ndistinction is not trivial. Murder happens to innocent people, not people\nwhose line of work is to kill or be killed. It just so happened that these\nsoldiers, in the line of duty, were killed by the opposition. And\nresistance is different from terrorism. Certainly the athletes in Munich\nwere victims of terrorists (though some might call them freedom fighters).\nTheir deaths cannot be compared to those of soldiers who are killed by\nresistance fighters. Don't forget that it was the French Resistance to the\nNazi occupying forces which eventually succeeded in driving out the\nhostile occupiers in WWII. Diplomacy has not worked with Israel and the\nLebanese people are tired of being occupied! They are now turning to the\nonly option they see as viable. (Don't forget that it worked in driving\nout the US)\n\n-marc\n\n", "\n\nIn today's Jerusalem Post Magazine there is a feature story about the\nongoing restoration of synagogues in the Jewish Quarter. The author,\nLeah Abramowitz, writes that there were FIFTY-SEVEN synagogues in the\nquarter in 1948, ALL of which were destroyed, some, she says, used as\ndonkey stables. The building shells, that is.\n\nI still find it really, really hard to understand why the demolition\nof the buildings in front of the Kotel continues to evoke more outrage\nthan this. Everything is so much cheaper when it happens to the Jews.\n\nWhy?\n", "I have read that there will be some concrete proposals concerning creation\nof a \"palestinian police force\" during the talk's next stage. Does anyone\nknows of the details of this idea? How does it \"fit\" with the differing\nconceptions listed above?\n", "There have been a number of articles on the PBS frontline program\nabout Iranian bomb. Here is my $0.02 on this and related subjects.\n\nOne is curious to know the real reasons behind this and related\npublic relations campaign about Iran in recent months. These include:\n\n1) Attempts to implicate Iran in the bombing of the New York Trade\n Center. Despite great efforts in this direction they have not\n succeeded in this. They, however, have indirectly created\n the impression that Iran is behind the rise of fundamentalist\n Islamic movements and thus are indirectly implicated in this matter.\n\n2) Public statements by the Secretary of State Christoffer and\n other official sources regarding Iran being a terrorist and\n outlaw state.\n\n3) And finally the recent broadcast of the Frontline program. I \n suspect that this PR campaign against Iran will continue and\n perhaps intensify.\n\nWhy this increased pressure on Iran? A number of factors may have\nbeen behind this. These include:\n\n1) The rise of Islamic movements in North-Africa and radical\n Hamas movement in the Israeli occupied territories. This\n movement is basically anti-western and is not necessarily\n fueled by Iran. The cause for accelerated pace of this \n movement is probably the Gulf War which sought to return\n colonial Shieks and Amirs to their throne in the name of\n democracy and freedom. Also, the obvious support of Algerian\n military coup against the democratically elected Algerian\n Islamic Front which clearly exposed the democracy myth.\n A further cause of this may be the daily broadcast of the news\n on the slaughter of Bosnian Moslems.\n\n2) Possible future implications of this movement in Saudi Arabia\n and other US client states and endangerment of the cheap oil\n sources from this region.\n\n3) A need to create an enemy as an excuse for huge defense\n expenditures. This has become necessary after the demise of\n Soveit Union.\n\nThe recent PR campaign against Iran, however, seems to be directed\nfrom Israel rather than Washington. There is no fundamental conflict\nof interest between Iran and the US and in my opinion, it is in the\ninterest of both countries to affect reestablishment of normal\nand friendly relations. This may have a moderating effect on the\nrise of radical movements within the Islamic world and Iran .", "\n I too noticed that in all this screaming and shouting, not one \nperson brought up the question of atrocities being commited on non-muslims \nby the Sudanese Government. Could it be that they are Africans and so who\ncares? I suggest that everyone cut the hypocrisy and bleating about Bosnia \nand go on to discuss something even more meaningless.\n\n The report below shows that the Sudanese are acting in the finest\ntraditions of Islamic law as expounded by some die-hard people on the \nnet (who shall remain nameless). \n\nSudan\n-----\n\nGovernment troops 'steal women, children'\n\n\nWASHINGTON - Government troops in Sudan are involved in massacres,\nkidnapping and the transporting of forced labor into Libya, according\nto a State Department document declassified Wednesday.\n\n The report compiled by the U.S. embassy in Khartoum said government\nforces, particularly Arab militias organized as the Popular Defense\nForces, \"routinely steal women and children\" in southern Sudan.", "\n\nDorin, of all the criticism of my post expressed on t.p.m., this one I accept.\nI regret that aspect of my post. It is my hope that the occupation will end (and\nthe accompanying loss of life) but I believe that stiff resistance can help to \nachieve that end. Despite what some have said on t.p.m., I think that there is \na point when losses are unacceptable. The strategy drove U.S. troops out of \nLebanon, at least.", "\nDon't be so sure. Look what happened to Japanese citizens in the US during\nWorld War II. If you're prepared to say \"Let's round these people up and\nstick them in a concentration camp without trial\", it's only a short step to\ngassing them without trial. After all, it seems that the Nazis originally\nonly intended to imprison the Jews; the Final Solution was dreamt up partly\nbecause they couldn't afford to run the camps because of the devastation\ncaused by Goering's Total War. Those who weren't gassed generally died of\nmalnutrition or disease.\n", "\nEnemy? Sounds like that's the viewpoint of the stereotypical rednecked\nconservative -- 'always been commies, always will be.' I suggest you\nlisten very carefully to the stuff Yeltsin and his people are saying\nand compare that with the very anti-West slogans coming from his\nopponents in the Russian congress. I sure know who I want to back.\n\nOh, BTW, Germany has sure come back as a terrible enemy after WWII,\nhasn't it?\n\nBetter to let them degenerate into civil war? Remember all those\nnuclear weapons in Russia. I cannot imagine that they would not\nbe used in a civil war. If nationialists take over and, even if\nthey prevent a civil war, most feel they must take back large\nparts of land that are in other countries (like Ukraine.) I also cannot\nimagine Ukraine giving up land without a fight, possibly nuclear.\n\nHow does this affect us? Well, we are on the same planet and if\nvast tracks of Europe are blown away I think we'd feel something.\nA massive breakup of a country that spans 1/6th the planet is\nbound to have affects here. (Of course, there is also the\nhumanitarian argument that democracies should help other\ndemocracies (or struggling democracies).)\n\n\nSeriously. Everyone has different opinions on what is stupid.\nMy two \"causes\" are aid to Russia and a strong space program.\nSomeone else will champion welfare or education or doing studies\nof drunken goldfish. That is why we have a republic and not a\ntrue democracy. Instead of gridlock on a massive scale, we\nonly have gridlock on a congressional scale.\n\nBTW, who is to decide 'stupid?' This is just like those who\nwant to impose their 'morals' on others -- just the sort of\nthing I thought Libertarians were against.\n\nActually, my politics are pretty Libertarian except on this one issue \nand this is why it is impossible for me to join the party. It seems\nthat Libertarians want to withdraw from the rest of the world and\nlet it sink or swim. We could do that 100 years ago but not now.\nLike it or not we are in the beginnings of a global economy and\nglobal decision making. ", "I really don't know how you can possibly maintain this hypocritical\nstance.\n\nOn the one hand, you imply that there is a conspiracy of Arab-Americans\nthat warrants the illegal gathering of information on them (ie. auto license/\nregistration information in California) and other forms of \"monitoring\", including\nblatant attempts by paid ADL agents to discredit an American-Arab \norganization by trying to distribute Nazi propaganda. Furthermore,\nyou attempt to rationalize this through crude stereotyping by pointing \nto the WTC bombing, in which Arab-Americans had no involvement.\n\nOn the other hand, you publish this excerpt, which seems to rail\nagainst notions of a racial (Jewish, in this case) conspiracy and\nstereotypes.\n\nIf you really aren't the hypocrite you appear to be, please explain \nyourself.\n", "\n\nThey certainly are until the Arabs make peace. Only the most leftist/Arabist\nlunatics call upon Israel to withdraw now. Most moderates realize that an \nIsraeli withdrawl will be based on the Camp David/242/338/Madrid formulas\nwhich make full peace a prerequisite to territorial concessions.\n", "\nI looked back at this, and asked some questions of various people and\ngot the following information which I had claimed and you pooh-poohed.\nThe US has not sold Iraq any arms. Their navy is entirely made of\nF-USSR vessels. Their airforce (not including stuff captured from Kuwait\nwhich I am not as sure about), doesn't include any US equipment. Their\nmissiles are all non-US. Their tanks are almost all soviet, with about\n100 French tanks (older ones). The only US stuff in the Iraqi arsenal\nis a few M113s. Those were not sold to Iraq. Iraq captured them from\nother countries (like Kuwait). Information is hard to prove. You are\nclaiming that the US sold information? Prove it. \n\nNow, how did the US build up Iraq again? I just gave some fairly\nconclusive evidence that the US didn't sell arms to Iraq. Information\nis hard to prove, almost certainly if the US did sell information, then that\nfact is classified, and you can't prove it. If you can provide some\nuseful evidence that the US sold arms or valuable intelligence to Iraq,\nI am very interested, but not if you just make claims based on what\n\"everyone knows\".\n", "This is such Bullshit. Deir Yassin was an unprovoked attack on\nthe part of the Jews, and a massacre defines it best in my\nopinion. The village of Deir Yassin had had a pact with the\nJews, a peace pact, but the Irgun purposely broke this\nagreement in order to scare off the Palestinians. I might\ngrant that this village housed armed Arabs [I doubt it] but\nnothing in the archives and available literature indicates that\nthis was a motivating force amongst the Irgun. The Deir Yassin\nMASSACRE was part of an over all strategy to intimidate the\nPalestinians to flee the Jewish Homeland.,...and contrary to\nyour belief, many civilians were killed. Deir Yassin was later\nadvertized by the very Jews who perpetrated it because it was\nuseful in getting many Palestinians to leave. The Palestinians\nwere rightfully scared off, because they did not want another\nDeir Yassin. \n\tI'm not necessarily condemning the Israelites here;\natrocities were aslo committed on the part of the Arabs.\nIsraelophiles should just be careful in thinking that they are\nand were the good guys in the middle east. Both Arab and Jew\nsuck equally.\n", "\nThe Litani river flows in a west-southwestern direction and indeed does\nnot run through the buffer zone. The Hasbani does flow into the Jordan\nbut contrary to what our imaginative poster might write, there has been\nno increase in the inflow from this river that is not proportional to\nclimatic changes in rainfall.\n\n", "Andy Beyer has claimed that the Israeli Press is a bit biased.\nBut the fact is that there are events shaping the politics of the\nmideast that people who do not read the Israeli press simply know\nnothing about. Many of these events are not even mentioned here.\nI read the Israeli press to learn of important events about which\nyou know nothing, because of your total reliance on western media\nfor your information on Israel. Since I read both American media\nand Israeli media, I can say with absolute certainty that anybody\nwho reliesx exclusively on the American press for knowledge about\nIsrael does not have a true picture of what is going on.", "From: Center for Policy Research \nSubject: Rabin and his Palestinians kapos\n\n\nRabin's plans for a Palestinian police\n\n(from The Other Front, Alternative Information Center,\nJerusalem, 5 May 1993)\n\n\"The decision to view the setting up of a local police force \nfor (sic) the Palestinians as the central issue for \ndeliberation at the peace talks to be resumed next week - \neven before subjects like elections in the territories and \nareas of juridiction in the framework of autonomy - is a \nsign of the Israeli government's serious attitude towards \nthe peace process.\n\n\"The setting up of a police force is not part of the 'gesture \npackage', but deals with the very heart and substance of \nthe Palestinian struggle for national identity. As it turns \nout, the main objective guiding the prime minister in the \nsetting up of a Palestinian police force - and apparently \nalso supported by Foreign Minister Shimon Peres - is to \nensure the holding of democratic elections in the \nterritories.\"\n\nThus writes Amnon Barzilai in his editorial (Israeli daily \nHadashot, 23 April), and his position articulates the \nthinking of most of the commentators who dealt with this \nissue in the past two weeks. Over against them stand the \nsettlers and rightwing parties, who also interpret the \ndecision to encourage the establishment of a Palestinian \npolice force as a significant step towards the instituting of \nreal autonomy, something which will restrict what can be \ndone by the Jewish settlers in the West Bank and Gaza \nStrip. With a variety of demonstrations, including street \ntheater on 'What will happen when there is a Palestinian \npolice force', rightwing elements are attempting to \nfrighten the Israeli public and to pressure Rabin to go \nback on his decision. Members of the Kach movement \nhave even begun to organize a 'settler police force' in the \nOccupied Territories, as counter-balance to the future \nPalestinian police force.\n\nHowever, as Barzilai points out, the main function of the \nnew police force - as far as the Israeli government is \nconcerned - has nothing to do with the settlers, over \nwhom they will apparently have no authority, but will \ncontrol political groups within the Palestinian population, \nwhom the government is interested in neutralizing. \nWrites Barzilai:\n\n\"...According to ideas currently taking shape, the setting \nup of a local police force in the territories will precede, \nnot only the stage of electsion, but also the final stages of \nthe preparing of the interim autonomy agreement.\n\n\"The willingness of the Israeli government to set up a \nlocal Palestinian police force is evidence that the \ngovernment is serious about arriving at a settlement with \nthe Palestinians...\"\n\nIt's no wonder that the Palestinian public is also greatly \nworried about this new Israeli initiative. And it is \ninevitable that pressure will be brought to bear on Faisal \nHusseini and the rest of the delegation members, from a \nvariety of directions, to refuse the gift which Rabin would \nlike to give them. But at this stage, it looks like the \nPalestinians are cooperating in the fulfillment of his \nplans.\n", "\n I guess that it was not acceptable because Germany *also* chose\n a path of aggression simultaneously that put the interests of\n other countries in peril. I wonder whether US or other countries\n would have risked themselves if only Jews were persecuted and\n Hitler had no imperialist ambitions. (I am no student of history\n and I am just asking questions.)\n\nI don't think they would have. After all the U.S. was one of the\ncountries that turned away Jewish refugees when there was still time\nto get them out. (Considered and rejected at the Cabinet level then..)\n\n ...\n Under what conditions should US interfere in foregin countries,\n is an abstraction one must clarify before resorting to acrimonious\n accusations of religious bigotry and such.\n\nAs I understand it, International law provides the right of any\ncountry to intervene to prevent genocide. I think once the World\nCourt has ruled that genocide is being committed... \n\nIf a Human Rights Czar is appointed at the U.N., we could have\ninternational monitors recording events and responses of local\nofficials and develop an objective basis. This could be backed by\nadjudication at the International Court of Justice and enforcement\nthrough a Rapid Deployment Force under the U.N. Secretary General's\ncommand. I would like to see the U.N. directly impose ICJ rulings\nwhenever feasible (without the possibility of vetos at the UN Security\nCouncil.. much as the President can't veto a U.S. Supreme Court\nruling). \n \nThe U.S. is now supporting the effort to appoint the HR Czar -- the\nthird world opposition is led by three countries, China, Iran and\nPakistan (What company is Pakistan keeping!). \n\nThe U.S. is also reconsidering its opposition to the U.N. force\ninitially envisaged in the Charter (although under the control of the\nSecurity Council). The UN SC is quite a flawed body. Rogue\ngovernments like the PRC have even threatened their veto in the last\nfew months to block the move to place U.N. troops in Bosnia under\nChapter 7 instead of 11 (if I have the numbers straight) where they\ncould have moved from being a monitoring to an enforcement force\nwithout requiring further SC action. (The PRC even continues to\nthreaten using its veto on U.N. action despite the ICJ ruling. The\ncurrent set-up requires the SC to enforce ICJ rulings..).\n\nPeace,", "Some articles on the topic: \n\n\nRTw 12/23 0859 GULF ARABS DEMAND IRAN WITHDRAWAL FROM ISLANDS \n\n (Eds: updates with end of summit details, quotes) \n By Youssef Azmeh \n ABU DHABI, Dec 23, Reuter - Gulf Arab states, emerging from a summit\nthat restored \ntheir unity after almost three months of crisis, piled pressure on Iran\non Wednesday to \nreverse its virtual annexation of a strategic Gulf island. \n They issued a statement after a three-day Gulf Cooperation Council\nsummit saying Iran \nhad to show proof of its good neighbourly intentions by rescinding\nmeasures that \"rocked \nGulf stability and security.\" \n The leaders avoided the anti-Iranian rhetoric of recent statements\nby Egypt, which \nengineered a last minute settlement of a border row between Saudi Arabia\nand Qatar that \nallowed all members to attend the summit. \n Egypt said its fears about Iranian intentions in the region and\nTehran's alleged \nencouragement of Moslem fundamentalist unrest were largely behind\nPresident Hosni \nMubarak's mediation. \n The GCC statement stressed that developing relations between the\nGulf Arab states and \nIran \"is linked to enhacing confidence and to measures Iran might take\nin line with its \ncommitment to the principle of good neighbourliness and the respect of\nthe sovreignty and \nterritorial integrity of the region's states.\" \n It denounced Iran's measures on the island of Abu Musa, which it\nshares with the \nUnited Arab Emirates, and the continued occupation of the Greater and\nLesser Tumbs \nislands. \n Iran earlier this year extended its control over Abu Musa beyond a\nsmall garrison it \nestablished there in 1971 under an agreement with the UAE emirate of Sharjah. \n It has since rescinded orders expelling foreigners who worked on the\nisland for the \nUAE government. But diplomats say it continues to exercise its authority\nover the whole \nisland, which the UAE sess as as virtual annexation. \n The Tumbs were occupied by the former Shah of Iran in 1971 and the\nUAE has since the \nAbu Musa crisis erupted insisted that they have to be returned as part\nof a general \nsettlement. \n The GCC leaders called on the U.N. to maintain sanctions against\nIraq for not fully \nimplementing Security Council resolutions following its 1990 invasion of\nKuwait. \n They endorsed once again the \"Damascus Declaration,\" a pact signed\nwith Egypt and \nSyria after their troops took part in the U.S. led alliance that drove\nIraqi troops out of \nKuwait. \n But delegates said the leaders were unable to agree the details of a\nfund they \nannounced they would create at their last summit in Kuwait last year\nwhich would have \nhelped Egypt's and Syria's economic development programme. \n They said the leaders could not agree on a breakdown of\ncontributions from each state \nalthough the total amount had been scaled down to $6 billion from the\n$10 billion agreed \nlast year. \n The fact that the leaders of all GCC states -- Saudi Arabia,\nBahrain, Kuwait, Oman and \nQatar -- attended the summit was seen as a major achievement although\ntheir unity was only \nmaintained with outside help. \n Most delegations were not too worried for the moment about the slow\nprogress of the \nconservative rulers discussions on a future security structure for the\nregion that boasts \nthe bulk of global oil and gas reserves. \n The leaders were unable to choose between two proposals. \n One put forward by a summit committee headed by Oman's Sultan Qaboos\nto create a \n100,000-man rapid deployment force that could rush to defend any member\nagainst external \naggression, such as Iraq's invasion of Kuwait. \n Another was a Saudi-supported plan to expand the existing 10,000-man\n\"Peninsula \nShield\" force which had so far played a largely symbolic role and is\ncommanded by a Saudi \ngeneral. \n Little headway was made on plans for a reginal common market\nalthough the summit \ncalled for concrete proposals to be submitted to next year's summit due\nto be held in \nSaudi Arabia next December. \n REUTER YA DYA DJG \n\n\n\nRTw 12/23 0835 GULF LEADERS END SUMMIT \n\n ABU DHABI, Dec 23, Reuter - Gulf Arab states ended a three-day\nannual summit on \nWednesday with an appeal to Iran to end its occupation of three\nstrategic Gulf islands as \na condition for restoring friendly ties across the Gulf. \n A joint statement issued after the summit, marked by relief over the\nsettlement of a \nrow between two Gulf Cooperation Council members, also called for\ncontinued U.N. sanctions \nagainst Iraq. \n It said Baghdad had failed to implement key Security Council\ndecisions following the \nexpulsion of its troops from Kuwait early last year. \n The summit broke no new ground on steps to achieve a Gulf common\nmarket, but called on \nofficials to present a plan for common external tarrifs for all six\nmembers to the next \nsummit which will be held in Saudi Arabia in December 1993. \n The statement stressed that developing relations between the Gulf\nArab states and Iran \n\"is linked to enhacing confidence and to measures Iran might take in\nline with its \ncommitment to the principle of good neighbourliness and the respect of\nthe sovreignty and \nterritorial integrity of the region's states.\" \n It denounced Iran's measures on the island of Abu Musa, which it\nshares with the \nUnited Arab Emirates, and the continued occupation of the smaller\nislands, the Greater and \nLesser Tumbs. \n It expressed deep regret and extreme concern for the unjustified\nIranian measures \nwhich contradict a proclaimed wish to develop relations and called on\nIran to rescind \nthose measures and end the occupation which it said was \"shaking peace\nand stability in \nthe area.\" \n Iran earlier this year extended its control over Abu Musa beyond a\nsmall garrison it \nestablished there in 1971 under an agreement with the UAE emirate of Sharjah. \n It has since rescinded orders expelling foreigners who worked on the\nisland for the \nUAE government but diplomats in the region say that its security forces\ncontinue to \nexercise their authority over the whole island. \n The UAE has seen this as virtual annexation. \n The Tumbs were occupied by the former Shah of Iran in 1971 and the\nUAE has since the \nAbu Musa crisis erupted insisted that they have to be returned as part\nof a general \nsettlement. \n REUTER YA DYA DJG \n\n\nRTw 12/26 1441 IRAN HINTS IT READY TO GO TO WAR OVER ISLANDS \n\n (Eds: updates with SNSC statement) \n NICOSIA, Dec 26, Reuter - Iran told its Gulf Arab neighbours on\nSaturday it was ready \nto defend militarily three disputed islands, reminding them of its\neight-year war with \nIraq. \n \"Our eight-year defence (in the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war) has proved to\nthe world that \nour brave nation will never hesitate to defend the sovereignty and\nsafeguard the \nterritorial integrity of Iran,\" Iran's Supreme National Security Council\n(SNSC) said. \n A meeting of the heads of the six-nation Gulf Cooperation Council\nvoiced full support \non Wednesday for the United Arab Emirates (UAE) in its dispute with Iran\nover the Gulf \nislands of Abu Musa, Greater Tumb and Lesser Tumb. \n The move has triggered strong Iranian criticism and warnings.\nBesides the UAE, the GCC \nalso groups Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar and Saudi Arabia. \n Iranian President Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani, who chaired the SNSC's\nmeeting on \nSaturday, said during his Friday prayer sermon at Tehran University:\n\"Iran is surely \nstronger than the likes of you. To reach these islands one has to cross\na sea of blood.\" \n The SNSC, quoted by the official Iranian news agency IRNA received\nin Cyprus, also \ncriticised the GCC and described its support of the UAE as \"irresponsible.\" \n \"No country will ever be able to covet even an inch of Iranian soil,\"\nsaid the SNSC. \n Earlier on Saturday, the English language Tehran Times, believed to\nbe close to the \nForeign Ministry, said the UAE should be aware that Iran's\nself-restraint had certain \nlimits. \n It dismissed a UAE claim to the islands as unfounded and said a 1971\nagreement to \nshare Abu Musa with the UAE emirate of Sharjah still applied. \n \"The idea of Abu Dhabi officials that Tehran would always refrain\nfrom responding to \nthe blows inflicted by them was \"childish,\" Tehran Times said. \n IRNA said the newspaper was commenting on the GCC statement which\nurged Iran to \nreverse what it says is the annexation of Abu Musa island and to pull\nout of the two other \nislands. \n Iran says the islands near the entrance to the Gulf have\nhistorically belonged to it. \nThe dispute flared this year after Iran tightened its control over Abu Musa. \n REUTER AF JCH \n\nRTw 12/28 1011 TEHRAN PAPER WANTS IRAN REVIVE CLAIM TO BAHRAIN ", "\n\tNone of you guys noticed my \"Gross Mistake\" 'cause you\ndon't have a clue. I noticed the misspeaking myself and\ncorrected it. I doubt you would have ever noticed.\n\n\tActually I've read books and taken courses on the\nsubject. Ah yes and like you lived in the greater Deutschland. \n \n\nYou guys are funny. It's funny to see people lose control and\nstart the name calling when they realize they have no point.\n\n\nCould have fooled me.\n\n\tI understand how individual liberties (freedom of\nspeach, religion etc.) could be a thing you \"never heard\nabout\". Actually, Civil Libertarians believe in the fundamental\nfreedoms that belong to human beings. They would support the\nJews against the Nazis or anyone else who tries to oppress them\nand they would support the Arabs against the Israelis and any\nother such oppressive regimes (Iraq etc.) \n\n\n\nWell actually now that you mentioned here are a few things I\nappreciate:\n\n1. Politeness\n2. Stimulating conversation\n3. A red rose\n4. New York in june and a good Gerschwinn tune\n5. A chocalate Sundae\n6. Really angry out of controll funny people", "The following announcement is from the Bosnia Task Force, USA.\n\n\n Yusuf Islam (formerly Cat Stevens of London) and Muhammad Ali\n (former heavyweight champion) will be the grand marshals of\n the Washington rally on Saturday, May 15, 93\n -------------------------------------------\n\n\n Twenty to Twenty Five thousands are expected to march\n demanding an end to genocide in BOSNIA\n \n\n Rally will begin 1pm from Lafayette Park in front of White House\n ----------------------------------------------------------------\n\nIn the largest planned rally ever by Muslims in America, the Bosnia Task\nForce, USA has called upon all Muslims in the USA to hold rallies\nthrough out the USA. Muslims in 400 miles radius are, however, requested\nto come to Washington D.C. for a rally in front of the White House.\n\nThe rally will start sharp at 1pm on May 15, 93 in front of the White House and\nwill March to Capitol Hill. All are requested to be in Lafayette park by noon.\n\nIt is going to be a big rally. More than 20,000 persons are expected to\nparticipate. New York is targeting 50 buses. People as far as Texas and Arizona\nare coming. Never in Washington's history have so Many Muslims have marched\nbefore. Are you ready for this historical event? Call every one you know to\nbring them to rally.\n\nOur Demands:\n------------\n\n1) Recognize the genocidal nature of the Milosevic regime and its aggression.\n2) Lift the arms embargo from the Bosnian government.\n3) provide the Bosnian government with arms for self-defence.\n4) Use NATO air power to enforce the will and conscience of the World community\non Serbia.\n5)Begin the War Crime tribunals immediately.\n\nIF YOU ARE NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION, YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM! \n\n\nMembers of the Bosnia Task Force, USA:\nISNA, ICNA, Ministry of Imam W. Deen Mohammed, The National Community,\nBosnia Action Committee of Chicago, Majlis Shura New York, American\nMuslim Council, Michigan Islamic Council, Balkan Muslim Association.\nPhone: (312) 829-0087 Fax: (312) 829-0089\n------------------------------------------------------------------------", "Now we have strong evidence of where the CPR really stands.\nUnbelievable and disgusting. It only proves that we must\nnever forget...\n\n\n!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!\n\n\nNot so unconventional. Eugenic solutions to the Jewish Problem\nhave been suggested by Northern Europeans in the past.\n\n Eugenics: a science that deals with the improvement (as by\n control of human mating) of hereditory qualities of race\n or breed. -- Webster's Ninth Collegiate Dictionary.\n\n\nThis is nothing more than Feisal Husseini's statement that the\nZionist entity must be disolved by forcing it to \"engage\" the\nsurrounding \"normal\" Arab society.\n\n\"a strong mixed stock\", \"integration of Israeli society into\nthe Middle East in a graceful manner,\" these are the phrases\nof Nazi racial engineering pure and simple. As if Israeli\nsociety has no right to exist per se!\n\n\n\"the continued existance of a specific Jewish People overrides\nany other consideration, be it human love, peace of human\nrights.\" Disolve the Jewish People and protect human values\nsuch as love and peace; yes ve have heard this before Her Himmler.\nNotice how the source of the problem seems to be accruing to\nthe Jews in this analysis. Ya, Der Spiegal ist a gut sourcen...\n\n\nNice attempt to mix in a slam against U.S. aid to Israel.\n\n\nCritical comment: you can take the Nazi flag and Holocaust photos\noff of your bedroom wall, Elias; you'll never succeed.\n\n-- Chris Metcalfe\n\n!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!", "# \n# |> \n# |> |> |> First, my above statement doesnot say that \"the existence of israeli citizens\n# |> |> |> in the WB revoke their right of life\" but it says \"the israeli occupation\n# |> |> |> of the WB revoke the right of life for some/most its citizens - basically\n# |> |> |> revokes the right of for its military men\". Clearly, occupation is an\n# |> |> |> undeclared war; during war, attacks against military targets are fully legitimate. \n# |> \n# |> I'd like you to tell me, in your own words who the military are, wrt Israel then.\n# |> In uniform, or not? On duty, or off-duty? Soldier to be, or not?\n# |> (That is, since it's compulsory one might regard any Israeli as a\n# |> legit target using that definition)\n# \n# in uniform or not ? doesnot make a difference if the person is in army.\n# On duty, or off-duty? doesnot matter if the army man was on duty or on a\n# vacation week.\n# Soldier to be, or not? sure i meant only military men.\n\n Just trying to get this clear, so please bear with me. As far as\n I can tell, you're proposing the following rules of engagement\n between Israel and the Palestinean resistance. Please feel\n revise this preliminary draft as necessary:\n\n 1) Israeli military personnel are fair game at any time, in uniform\n or out, on duty or off. In practice, since any male or female\n Israeli of military age (18-?) may be off-duty military, all but\n young children are acceptable targets. Since the existence of\n Israel constitutes indication of hostile intent, no further\n provocation is required.\n\n 2) To avoid inpermissable violations of the rights of non-combatant\n Palestineans, Israeli forces must not engage Palestineans\n without positive identification as military personnel, clear\n indication of aggressive intent, and a clear field of fire.\n\n a) Positive identification may be assured by either checking for\n Palestinean military uniform, by posession of exclusively\n military armament (ie, T78 MBTs or MiG-29 aircraft), or\n self-identification (either verbal or documentary). Note\n that dual-use military/civilian weaponry such as hand grenades,\n AK-47 rifles, and RPG launchers do not constitute positive\n military identification and require closer inspection such\n as document checks.\n\n b) Aggressive intent (as distinct from merely 'hostile' intent,\n which is the normal condition) may be assured by not less\n than three rounds of incoming fire separated by intervals\n of not less than ten seconds between rounds. Note that a\n single burst of automatic-weapon fire counds as one round,\n as does a volley of rocket fire from more than one source.\n As noted above, dual-use weaponry may NOT be assumed to\n originate from military personnel, and thus do not justify\n armed response.\n\n c) A clear field of fire can be guaranteed by making a positive\n military identification of all personnel in the target area of\n the weapons to be used. Note that aggressive intent need not\n be proven for all possible targets. Thus, if IAF aircraft\n are attacked by a SAM crew it is not necessary to check the\n papers of each crew member so long as none are obviously\n civilians (as indicated, for instance, by the posession of\n uniquely civilian weaponry such as stones, axes, and Molotov\n coctails.) Since it is often difficult for IAF elements to\n land and make the necessary checks, ground forces should\n first screen prospective strike areas before AGM fire.\n For ACM purposes, a cockpit-to-cockpit pass within 5 meters\n is usually sufficient for this purpose, but may be repeated\n if necessary.", "\nI don't like this comment about \"Typical\" thinking. You could state\nyour interpretation of Exodus without it. As I read Exodus I can see \na lot of killing there, which is painted by the author of the bible\nin ideological/religious colors. The history in the desert can be seen\nas an ethos of any nomadic people occupying a land. That's why I think\nit is a great book with which descendants Arabs, Turks and Mongols can \nunify as well.\n\n\n", "From Israeline 4/27/93\n\nPeace Talks Resume Today; Israel to Offer Palestinians New\nProposals\n \nIsrael Radio, KOL YISRAEL, reports on today's resumption in\nWashington of the bilateral peace talks, following a recess which\nlasted over four months. According to the report, Israel is\nexpected to offer the Palestinians new proposals regarding the\nauthority of the Palestinian Executive Council, general elections,\ncontrol over land and human rights issues in the Territories.\nIsrael will express its readiness to give the Palestinians control\nof more land than previously offered. According to the radio\nreport, one estimate is that Israel will give the Palestinians\ncontrol over as much as two thirds of the administered lands, as\nwell as broad authority on water issues. Israel will seek to\npromote its offer to hold elections in the Territories in hopes of\nstrengthening the position of the Palestinian delegation to the\npeace negotiations. According to Israel Radio, the Israeli\ndelegation to the bilateral talks with the Palestinians will offer\ngreater responsibilities to the Palestinian Executive Council\nallowing it certain legislative capabilities, without making it a\nsymbol for Palestinian sovereignty. U.S. Secretary of State Warren\nChristopher invited all the heads of delegations to a gathering\ntonight. It will be the first such event since the Madrid\nconference. Head of the American team at the bilateral peace talks,\nEdward Djerejian, said that tonight's gathering is meant to\ndemonstrate the U.S.' active role in the peace process.\n ", "Dear folks,\n\nI am still awaiting for some sensible answer and comment.\n\nIt is a fact that the inhabitants of Gaza are not entitled to a normal\ncivlized life. They habe been kept under occupation by Israel since 1967\nwithout civil and political rights. \n\nIt is a fact that Gazans live in their own country, Palestine. Gaza is\nnot a foriegn country. Nor is TelAviv, Jaffa, Askalon, BeerSheba foreign\ncountry for Gazans. All these places are occupied as far as Palestinians\nare concerned and as far as common sense has it. \n\nIt is a fact that Zionists deny Gazans equal rights as Israeli citizens\nand the right to determine by themsevles their government. When Zionists\nwill begin to consider Gazans as human beings who deserve the same\nrights as themselves, there will be hope for peace. Not before.\n\nSomebody mentioned that Gaza is 'foreign country' and therefore Israel\nis entitled to close its borders to Gaza. In this case, Gaza should be\nentitled to reciprocate, and deny Israeli civilians and military personnel\nto enter the area. As the relation is not symmetrical, but that of a master\nand slave, the label 'foreign country' is inaccurate and misleading.\n\nTo close off 700,000 people in the Strip, deny them means of subsistence\nand means of defending themselves, is a collective punishment and a\ncrime. It is neither justifiable nor legal. It just reflects the abyss \nto which Israeli society has degraded. \n\nI would like to ask any of those who heap foul langauge on me to explain\nwhy Israel denies Gazans who were born and brought up in Jaffa to return\nand live there ? Would they be allowed to, if they converted to Judaism ?\nIs their right to live in their former town depdendent upon their\nreligion or ethnic origin ? Please give an honest answer.", "\n\nInfact on tuesday, the Bosnian foreign minister asked formally the UN to leave Bosnia,\njust to show how much hypocracy is there in Europe. These so called UN is actually\nhelping Serbs carry out their etnic-clensing/murders/rapes. In Zepa the UN effectively\nhelped the Serbs carry out their heinous crimes by spreading conflicting reports that\nnothing was going on there. The cowards, or so called UN peacemakers, only \"attempted\" to \ngo out there for a fact finding mission -as if with all the ham-radio operators were lying\nand all the US war planes out there have no means of flying over there. This is the biggest\nfarce in the history of the world and the same act has been repeated over and over again in\ndifferent beseiged Bosnian towns....\n\nYes! I heard today that the president of Bosnia- under pressure from the \"civilized nations\"\nhas appealed to the UN to stay there in Bosnia. He should know better..\n\nThese hypocrates (Sadly! it includes Clinton administration too) all came out and said\nthat the call for a referendum from bosnian serbian perliment (or a bunch of\nrapists/criminals) is a farce and yet they have to wait for the result of this referendum\nto act.... \n\nFor those of you who are against US to commit ground troops, fine just lift the arms-embargo on BOTH\nsides (since we know that serbs always got the heavy weapons form federal army). \n\nWake up West!! and admit that you are the most uncivilized, the most hypocratic and the most violent\nbunch on this earth...\n\n\n\n-Khalid\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n", "Danhy,\n\nAs you think Bedouin will be surprised by the posted article, I\nwould be happy to have some feedback from Bedouin readers, if you\nwill. I cannot judge the accuracy of the article, but assumes that\nit is no fabrication. Any critical review would be helpful.", "\n\n\n\nAccording to the NY Times, the 4 islands \"belong[] to the United Arab\nEmirates.\" \n\n\nWhy is it, then, that when the British, Iranians and UAE refer to\nOccupied Territory, they mean territory in dispute in Israel but not\nin their own affairs?\n", "\n\nThat would be nice, but considering professional diplomats between Israel and\nAthe Arabs have been unable to do so for 45 years, I can't see us starting.\nBut hey - as soon as anyone wants to discuss things reasonably and in a \nscholarly manner, count me in.\n\nAnyway the responses were mostly negative and I've been\n\nPeople have very strong opinions and you need to be careful regarding what \nyou say - if you say, make it factual and be able to back it up.\n\n\nThanks for teaching us about the civilized world, Andi. I guess we all just \ncame out either the desert or the ghetto, right? And no, we are not paid\nIsraeli lobbyists nor are we conspirators of the ZOG - we are just people who\nbelieve in our cause and find offense when people imply some sort dirty dealing\nor disloyalty due to our love of Israel (disguised as \"paid Israeli lobbyists\" -\nwhat kind of image is that?) \n\n\nOh! Thank you! I needed your approval of my heritage. I guess I can go home\nand feel good now and sleep comfartably knowing that Jews _really_ aren't\nworse people than anyone else, contrary to what we all _know_ is true.", "\n\n\nAnd some of us call them murderous bastards, but what's in a name.\n\n\nJust a damn minute! What history books did you read? I seem to recall\nthat there were a few British, Canadian, American, and Commonwealth\nsoldiers in France about that time. Perhaps you believe they were taking\na vacation trip?\n\n\nSure, the Lebanese want to get all foreigners out of the country so they\ncan go back to killing each other off.\n\n\n\nREB\n", "\n\nIf you _know_ that the number is \"so high\", would you care to provide it? \nTo tell you the truth, Hamid, most of those killed by the Israeli Army were\nagressors who were invading or attacking Israel with the intention of murdering\nJews and destroying the Jewish State. Thus, I have no sympathy for them and\nI really don't give a damn about how many were killed.\n", "Attention Israel Line Recipients\n \n Friday, April 16, 1993\n \n \nTwo Arabs Killed and Eight IDF Soldiers Wounded in West Bank Car\nBomb Explosion\n \nIsrael Defense Forces Radio, GALEI ZAHAL, reports today that a car\nbomb explosion in the West Bank today killed two Palestinians and\nwounded eight IDF soldiers. The blast is believed to be the work of\na suicide bomber. Radio reports said a car packed with butane gas\nexploded between two parked buses, one belonging to the IDF and the\nother civilian. Both busses went up in flames. The blast killed an\nArab man who worked at a nearby snack bar in the Mehola settlement.\nAn Israel Radio report stated that the other man who was killed may\nhave been the one who set off the bomb. According to officials at\nthe Haemek Hospital in Afula, the eight IDF soldiers injured in the\nblast suffered light to moderate injuries.\n ", "\n Anas Omran has claimed that, \"the Israelis used to arrest, and\nsometime to kill some of these neutral reporters.\" The assertion\nby Anas Omran is, of course, a total fabrication. If there is an\nonce of truth iin it, I'm sure Anas Omran can document such a sad\nand despicable event. Otherwise we may assume that it is another\npiece of anti-Israel bullshit posted by someone whose family does\nnot know how to teach their children to tell the truth. If Omran\nwould care to retract this 'error' I would be glad to retract the\naccusation that he is a liar. If he can document such a claim, I\nwould again be glad to apologize for calling him a liar. Failing\nto do either of these would certainly show what a liar he is.\n", "As I recall from Kieth Hernandez' 'auto'biography, Rusty is a devout\nRoman Catholic. Kieth and Rusty would carpool to Shea everyday but\nSunday, when Rusty would go to mass.\nSC\n", "\n\nIndeed Yaqouv, just like the ugly hatred spread by Kahane and\nKahanists, right? Or they are exempt from condemnation, and allowed\nto hate?\n\nNo, fool, not at all like hatred of one's sworn enemies, enemies who\nhave said time and again that they mean to kill you, and have, by mur-\ndering innocent men, women and children, shown that they really mean it.\n\nThe late rabbi never hated anyone merely for having been born into a par-\nticular group, but he (and I) hate and would/will kill anyone who comes\nto kill Jews. I recall VERY well Rabbi Kahane's words to the Iraqis at a\ndemonstration: \"You want peace? Here is our hand (holding out an open\nhand)! You don't want peace? Here is our hand (holding out a fist)!\"\n\nI know you'll answer me indirectly, it doesn't bother me a bit.\nKeep it up.\n\nIndirectly? The wonder of it is that I bother answering the likes of you\nat ALL!\n\nSteel (who's never pissed off).\n\n\n--\n / .. / .\n /_______/_/__________/_/_/ _< /____/\n /___ / .. /____/", "\nPardon me Tim, but I do not see how it can be possible for the IDF to fail\nto detect the presence of those responsible for planting the bomb which\nkilled the three IDF troops and then later know the exact number and \nwhereabouts of all of them. Several villages were shelled. How could the IDF\npossibly have known that there were guerrillas in each of the targetted\nvillages? You see, it was an arbitrary act of \"retaliation\".\n\n\n\nThe problem, Tim, is that the original reason for the invasion was Palestinian\nattacks on Israel, NOT Lebanese attacks. \n\n\nFirst, I believe that my statement applies to both sides.\n\nHaving said that, I think it is neccessary to separate what is legitimately\nnegotiable and what is not. For example, no country has the right to abuse\none's human rights. Deciding whether there will be one or two states in\nPalestine is a legitimate question. While de facto one state exists, Israel \nmust treat all within its domain equitably.\n\n\nYes, I am afraid that what you say is true but that still does not justify\noccupying your neighbor's land. Israel must resolve its disputes with the\nnative Palestinians if it wants peace from such attacks.\n\n\nNot true. Lebanese were not attacking Israel in the 1970s. With a strong\nLebanese government (free from Syrian and Israeli interference) I believe\nthat the border could be adequately patrolled. The Palestinian heavy\nweapons have been siezed in past years and I do not see as significant a\nthreat as once existed.", "\nSomeone else said something similar. I will not comment on the\nvalue or lack of value of Elias's \"proposal\". I just want to say\nthat it is very distressing that at least two people here are\nprofoundly ignorant of Nazi racial doctrine. They were NOT\nlike Elias's idea, they were more like the opposite. \n\nNazis believed in racial purity, not racial assimilation. An \ninstructive example is the Nazi attitude to Gypsies. According to \nNazi theoreticians, Gypsies were an Aryan race. They were persecuted,\nand in huge numbers murdered, because most European Gypies were\nconsidered not pure Gypsies but \"mongrels\" formed from the pure Gypsy \nrace and other undesirable races. This was the key difference between \nthe theoretical approach to Jews and Gypsies, by the way. It is also \ntrue that towards the end of WWII even the \"purist\" Gypsies were \nhunted down as the theory was forgotten.", "\n\nthe last arab country was syria. but not all of them\nmigrated due to the jewish state economical and \nsecurital dilemma!\n", " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nO.K., its my turn:\n\n DRIVING THE JEWS INTO THE SEA ?!\n\nI am sick and tired of this 'DRIVING THE JEWS INTO THE SEA' sentance attributed\nto Islamic movements and the PLO; it simply can't be proven as part of their\nplan !\n\n(Pro Israeli activists repeat it like parrots without checking its authenticity\nsince it was coined by Bnai Brith)\n\nWhat Hamas and Islamic Jihad believe in, as far as I can get from the Arab media,\nis an Islamic state that protects the rights of all its inhabitants under Koranic\nLaw. This would be a reversal of the 1948 situation in which the Jews in\nPalestine took control of the land and its (mostly Muslim) inhabitants.\n\nHowever, whoever committed crimes against humanity (torture, blowing up their\nhomes, murders,...) must be treated and tried as a war criminal. The political\nthought of these movements shows that a freedom of choice will be given to the\nJews in living under the new law or leaving to the destintion of their choice.\n\nAs for the PLO, I am at a loss to explain what is going inside Arafat's mind.\n\nAlthough their political thinking seems far fetched with Israel acting as a true\nsuper-power in the region, the Islamic movements are using the same weapon the\nJews used to establish their state : Religion.\n", "From: Center for Policy Research \nSubject: Labour's enclaves policy.IMPORTANT\n\n\nLabour's enclaves policy in the occupied territories\n\nby Israel Shahak\npubl. in Middle East International, London, 30.4.93\n\nIt is not difficult to discover Israel's policy towards the \nPalestinians at any given time. It can be easily inferred \nfrom the facts on the ground and from the information \nprovided by the Hebrew press. There is one condition, \nthough. The torrents of claptrap about \"the peace \nprocess\" must be totally ignored, as must Israel's official \npronouncements, whole sole purpose is to distort reality. \nBy concentrating only on the facts, it was early apparent \nthat Labour's policies were no different from those of \nShamir but for their greater reliance on deceit and their \nmore effective implementation.\n\nLikud's policies were accurately described by Ariel \nSharon in an article, accompanied by a map, in Yediot \nAharonot last August. The Sharon plan envisaged a \ndivision of the West Bank into seven, and the Gaza Strip \ninto four, \"autonomous\" Palestinian enclaves, all of them \nunder Israeli supervision. The total area of these \nenclaves amounted to about 15 per cent of the \nterritories. The rest was to be controlled by the Israeli \nsettlements and the highways built around the enclaves. \nThe entire area around Jerusalem, from the outskirts of \nRamallah to the boundaries of Bethlehem, has already \nbeen turned into a \"Greater Jerusalem\" where the Arab-\ninhabited localities amount to small enclaves surrounded \nby areas occupied by Israeli settlements or reserved for \nthem.\n\nJudging from Labour's settlement policy, it may be \nassumed that it may content itself with a lesser number \nof Arab enclaves of a rather larger size than Sharon had \nplanned. But the principle of surrounding the enclaves by \nsettlements strategically dispersed along the highways \nremains unchanged. Labour plans only four enclaves in \nthe West Bank: two in \"Samaria\" and two in \"Judea\" (i.e. \nnorth and south of Jerusalem respectively), and no more \nthan two in the Gaza Strip. In regard to \"Greater \nJerusalem\", Labour's policies hardly deviate from \nSharon's.\n\nA saner version of Likud policy\n\nAs some Israeli correspondents at once realised, Labour \npolicies were but a saner version of Sharon's \nextravaganza. Last July, Gideon Eshet wrote in Yediot \nAharonot that, while \"barely a few months ago\" Labour \nsupported the demand to freeze all construction beyond \nthe Green Line, \"no specific decision to freeze \nconstruction in the territories has been taken\". And Uzi \nBenziman wrote in Ha'aretz that \"as far as can be judged \non the basis of the internal political discussions in \nJerusalem, Rabin intends to stick to Likud's ways\".\n\nThe two biggest enclaves envisaged by Labour are \nlocated in \"Samaria\". Therefore the belt of settlements \naround the \"Trans-Samaria Highway\", designed to \nseparate those enclaves from each other, is of paramount \nimportance. According to the latest data, the percentage \nof Israeli settlers in the entire West Bank population \n(apart from East Jerusalem) is a mere 5.5 per cent. But \nfor the area around the \"Trans-Samaria Highway\", the \ncorresponding figure is almost 20 per cent, and it is \nincreasing steadily. The situation in the settlements of \nthe \"Efrat Block\" south of Jerusalem, designed to sever \nthe enclave around Bethlehem from the one around \nHebron, is pretty much the same. The \"Efrat Block\" is now \nbeing connected with West Jerusalem by a highway.\n\nThe project is costly in the extreme, because the highway \nis designed to bypass Bethlehem by a sequence of long \ntunnels. The final decision to build this highway was \nsuspended until Rabin's return from his US visit in \nMarch. The subsequent decision to renew its construction \ncan be seen as US approval for the enclaves plan as a \nwhole.\n\nProcess of impoverishment\n\nThe enclaves plan implies deliberate and steady \nimpoverishment of the Palestinians. This is well known \nin Israel but ignored abroad by all who should be \nconcerned, including the PLO. In regard to the Gaza Strip, \nthe whole process was best described by Ze'ev Shiff in \nHa'aretz in March. He mentions having seen \"a pamphlet \nissued six years ago by the Civil Administration \nforecasting the conditions in the Gaza Strip under Israeli \nrule in 2000\". His analysis deserves to be quoted \nextensively:\n\n\"We continue to steal the Strip's water, even though its \nquality deteriorates from year to year. We continue to \nsteal the Strip's tiny land resources, in order to found \nthere more and more settlements, as if we deliberately \nwant to make the inhabitants despair, and in their \ndespair think in termws of having nothing to lose. It is \nby our own doing that the Strip's workers must now \nspend travelling to their workplaces almost as much time \nas they spend working. From the military point of view, \nwe have kept control of no more than half the Strip's \narea at an increasingly exorbitant price in manpower and \nresources. About a year before Moshe Arens left the \ndefence ministry, I heard him saying that we should \nwithdraw from the Strip come what may. His argument \nwas that Israel sinks into the Strip ever deeper and \ndeeper. He told me he had proposed this to Yitzhak \nShamir but he rejected it.\" Yitzhak Rabin rejects it too.\n\nEnormous state support for the Qatif Block settlers can \nalso be cited as proof that the enclaves plan is being \nimplemented. The Qatif Block settlements, founded by \nthe first Rabin government of 1974-77, are intended to \ndivide the Gaza Strip into two separate enclaves. Efraim \nDavidi of Davar had data showing how vital for Israeli \nthis enterprise is. \"The Qatif Block is now producing 40 \nper cent of Israeli tomatoes destined for export, and a \nsubstantial proportion of cut flowers.\" He also deals with \nthe subsidies the settlers receive, considerably \naugmented by the present government. Owing to them, \nhousing units are cheap. The present government does \nnot spare efforts to recruit new settlers to the block. \n\"Any prospective settler will get a 95 per cent mortgage \nfor his house on top of a grant of 18,000 shekels \n($6,500).\"\n\nSuch data shows that Israel's plans apply whether the \nPalestinians of the Gaza Strip are allowed or forbidden to \nwork in Israel. The economic motivations were explained \nby Danny Rubinstein in Ha'aretz in March:\n\n\"From the economic viewpoint Gaza could already be \nsealed off hermetically and all the Strip's workers could \nbe barred from entering Israel...Even though accurate \ndata is hard to come by, it is indisputable that during the \nlast two years the numbes of Gazan workers arriving \ndaily to work in Israel has markedly decreased, from \n80,000 in the mid'80s to 40,000 today. But the decrease \nis not only due to restrictions imposed on entering Israel \nfrom Gaza. It is also due to the drastic curtailment of \ndemand for Gazan labour in Israel. With unemployment \nin Israel soaring and the construction of apartments \nblocks virtually halted, the workers from Gaza are no \nlonger really needed...\"\n\nGaza's total dependence\n\nThe entire economy of the Gaza Strip is totally dependent \non Israel. In recent years in the Gaza Strip there has \nbeen an increase in sub-contracted work for Israeli \nfactories, mostly footware and textiles. Thousands of \nsmall workshops, employing an average of four workers, \nget their raw materials or unfinished products, together \nwith detailed working instructions, from Israeli factories. \nRubinstein attributes this development to the fact that \n\"the average wage in the Gaza Strip is merely 40 per cent \nof that in the West Bank, which in turn stands at half the \naverage wage in Israel; and besides the Gazan employer \ndoes not pay any social security for his employees.\" If \nthe average wage in the Gaza Strip is just a fifth of that \nin Israel, the profits of Israeli factories and even of \nPalestinian sub-contractors must be vast.\n\nThey are higher still when \"a Gazan sub-contractor \nprovides labour to be performed at home, with the \nfamily's help. The livelihood of tens of thousands of \nGazans depends on such sub-contracted work.\" Many of \nthem are women and children, paid about ten shekels \n($3.50) a day which can last 12 hours or more. There can \nbe no doubt that profits from exploiting cheap Gazan \nlabour are one of the reasons for the stubborn opposition \nof Rabin and other Israeli ministers to withdrawal from \nthe Strip.\n\nEconomic conditions in the Gaza Strip differ little from \nwhat was created straight after Israel's conquest [in \n1967]. In this respect, one should not be deluded by the \ntalk, nowadays fashionable, about Israeli gestures \nintended to \"encourage economic development in the \nterritories\", As Israeli journalists point out, all permits \nfor opening new businesses depend on a prior approval \nby the Shin Bet. \"Behind all the professed goodwill there \nis no desire to solve problems, just the attitude of a good \ncolonialist, willing to do something for the benefit of the \nnatives, but on condition that they behave nicely, do not \nbecome rebellious, and never do anything against the \ninterests of the metropolis, its economic interests \nincluded,\" wrote Michal Sela in Davar in February. The \ndevelopment of sub-contracted work in the Gaza Strip \naccords perfectly with Sela's diagnosis.\n\nSela also shows how exactly the economic controls work. \n\"In all branches of the economy, lobbies have been set in \nmotion for purposes of freeing Israeli production from \nthe threat of any Palestinian competition. The method is \nsimplicity itself. As soon as any Israeli producer succeeds \nin persuading the government, or even the trade and \nindustry minister alone, a military order is issued \nprohibiting the export of a given produce to Israel. If this \ndoes not suffice, a Palestinian factory may be denied a \nlicence to operate or bureaucratic obstacles may paralyse \nits production.\" Among the most active of such lobbies is \nthe agricultural one. It has succeeded in limiting exports \nof Gazan vegetables (except for those grown by settlers) \nnot only to Israel but also to Europe, where they \notherwise might compete with Israeli exports.\n\nPerpetuaring apartheid\n\nLabour's goal is to perpetuate this apartheid regime in \nthe territories. The same goal is shared by the US, which \notherwise could not support the Labour government so \nfirmly. In my view one of the reasons the US feels \nhappier about supporting Labour than Likud is its \ngreater efficiency in pursuing the settlement drive. This \npoint was brought home by Ofer Shelah in Ma'ariv, who \ndeplored the settlers' failure which he attributed to \nLikud's inefficiency. he showed that the peak yearly \nsettlement growth \"occured during the term of office of \nthe National Unity government (i.e. 1984-90) in which \nRabin served throughout as the defence minister\". \nLikud's reputation for settling the territories better than \nLabour is false, attributable to the many tiny settlements \nwithout strategic value founded under Shamir for \nsymbolic reasons.\n\nTo sum up: Labour's policy, unconditionally supported by \nthe US differs from that of Likud primarily in the \nefficiency with which it is implemented. According to \nthat policy the territories are to be divided into two \nparts. The major part is to be ruled by Israel directly, \nand the minor part indirectly. In my view, this racist \nscheme is doomed to ultimately fail, but at a horrifying \nprice in human suffering. The sooner its true nature is \nrecognised, the less suffering it may cause.", "\nMay I suggest you chech out the _Palestinian National Covenant (1964)_. It may\nnot use the exact words as quoted above but I'm sure many will agree that the\nsame message is being issued. Later on when I get back home I will try to find\nthe precise section(s) but you can do the research for now (I hope). I also\nrealize that Yasser Arafat renounced the _Covenant_ *to the Western media only*\nbut he has yet to inform the PNC officially and enequivocally of his exact\nintentions on this issue. Therefore, as far as we are concerned the _Covenant_\nstill stands as the \"Bible\" (so to speak) of the mainstream Palestinian\nNational movement!\n\n\n\nAs a staunch pro-Israel activist I can confidently say that Bnai Brith has NOT\ninfluenced my opinions on the Arab-Israeli conflict. As I mentioned above,\njust a little research on the subject will lead anyone to reach a similar\nconclusion on the Palestinian National movement (the PLO in most cases). BB\ndoes not properly speak for me nor many of the people around me who share\nmy views.\n\n\nWhat 1948 situation? A negative situation I presume? Is this the same\n\"situation\" when the Jordanian occupiers of East Jerusalem would not allow the\nJews to go worship at the HOLIEST SITE IN JUDIASM? Was this an example of\nQu'ranic law being exercised? If not, I have another suggested reading for\nyou... get into the \"soc.culture.arabic\" newsgroup where the posters have been\ndebating the topic \"Jews in the Qu'ran\" (and may I remind you the people doing\nthe debating appear to be devout Muslims with some knowledge of the Qu'ran).\nYou will find that Jews aren't really viewed positively by the Qu'ran (to put\nit lightly). So how do you think Jews (or any other non-Islamic religion) will\nbe treated by an Islamic state governed by the words of the Qu'ran? I think\nthe 1948-1967 \"situation\" in Jerusalem will return *at best*! What do you\nthink?\n\n\nAll I have to say to that is, once again, see s.c.a - \"Jews in the Qu'ran\" and\nthink again. \"Freedom of choice\" is *definitely* not an option in Qu'ranic\nlaw especially for non-Muslims and ALL women! Remember the Gulf War? I'm sure\nyou saw the reports about how women had few rights in Saudi Arabia (an Islamic\nstate).\n\n\nProbably nothing! Aside from how to break the news to his Palestinian brethren\nthat the _Covenant_ is \"null and void\" without getting assassinated himself!\n\n\nIn conclusion, Ahmed, you should go to the library and find the _Palestinian\nNational Covenant (1964)_ and read it VERY CAREFULLY. By the way, Redpath\nLibrary DOES have it in stock because that is exactly where I found it when I\nwas doing my research. So enjoy the reading and I hope we will be hearing back\nfrom you soon!\n\n- Mike\n\n---\n MI KE MIK EMIK EMI K \"Opinions expressed above\n M I K E M I K E M are my own and not that\n M I K E MIKEM I KEM I K of 'Big Blue'\"\n M I K E M IKE M IKE MIKE", "To my fellow Columbian, I must ask, why do you say that I engage\nin fantasies? Arafat is a terrorist, who happens to have\n a lot of pull among Palestinians. Can we ignore the two facts?\nI doubt it.", "\n Are you trying to say that there were no massacres in Deir Yassin\n or in Sabra and Shatila? If so then let me tell you some good jokes:\n\n There is not and was not any such thing like jewish killing in WWII\n\n Palestinians just did what Davidians did for fourty years and more.\n\n In fact no one was killed in any war at any time or any place.\n\n People die that is all. No one gets killed.\n\n Maybe also vietamiese didn't die in Vietnam war killed by american\n napalm they were just pyromaniacs and that's all.\n\n Maybe jews just liked gas chambers and no one forced them to get in there.they \n may be thought it was like snifing cocaine. No?\n\n What do you think of this ? Isn't it stupid to say so?\n Well it is as stupid as what you said .Next time you want to lie do it\n intelligently.\n\n Sincerely yours.\n\n Hassan\n\nArab civilians did die at Dir yassin. But there was no massacre. First\nof all, the village housed many *armed* troops. Secondly, the Irgun\nand Stern fighters had absolutely no intentions of killing civilians.\nThe village was attacked only for its military significance. In fact,\na warning was given to the occupants of the village to leave before\nthe attack was to begin.\n\nBy all rational standards, Dir Yassin was not a massacre. The killing\nwas unintentional. The village housed Arab snipers and Arab troops.\nThus it was attacked for its military significance. It was not\nattacked with intentions of killing any civilians.\n\nTo even compare Dir Yassin, in which some 120 or so Arabs died, to the\nHolocaust is absurd. The Irgun did not want to kill any civilians. The\nvillage had almost 1000 inhabitants, most of whom survived.", "From Israeline 4/27/93\n\nRabin: We Must Concentrate on Qualitative Changes in Israeli\nSociety\n \nToday's AL HAMISHMAR quotes Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin's\nIndependence Day interview yesterday on Israel Television. Rabin\nsaid that enforcing Jewish sovereignty over the entire Land of\nIsrael would lead to the establishment of a bi-national state. \"I\nwould view it as if the historical destiny of my generation, Dor\nTashach, the generation that had the great privilege of determining\nthe fate of the people and founding the Jewish state, had been\nlost.\" Rabin added, \"We must stop dreaming of settlements [i.e. in\nthe Territories] and focus on qualitative and substantive changes\nin Israeli society to make it a productive society dependent on its\nown labor.\" The Prime Minister concluded saying that he would like\nto achieve a significant breakthrough in the peace process during\nhis government's term.\n", " Just observed at the National Model United Nations here in NYC.\n Just one word on it : AWSOME.\n Peace, matt\n", "\nIt is easy for Sen. Biden to say that when there are no US troops in\nZepa or Srebinica or Sarejevo...\n\nThe existing UN policy may certaining be wrong, but the US wants\nto dictate policy, and make Europe responsible for the consequences\nof that policy...\n\n...Bosnia is a big enough problem for the US to preach about what\nother countries should be doing with their forces...but its forces\nare safely tucked away at home in the US.", "\nAs I said, I do not want to convice anyone, so, why should my opinions\nconvince anyone?\nI do not believe that my opinions are refuted by facts.\n\n\n\nMaybe youy view of a dictionary is the problem here. One thing is the\naccepted meaning of a word by a dictionary, and sometimes a completely\ndifferent thing is what that word came to mean after a long time.\n\n\n\nOK. Tell me how many people in Zionist movements define a Jew in a \ndifferent way, and how many are who define Jew based on a religious way.\n\n\nYou need to start reading before answering. \nMy point was that because some movement claims to be nationalistic, it \ndoes not mean that I consider it to be nationalistic. I did not comapre\nIsrael to the IRA. I think that you are starting to put words on my \nmouth and that is wrong.\n\n\n\nI never said that Zionism is monolithic. If you are going to attribute\nme things, present the quotes where I said that.\n\n\nThat is your problem. I could certainly interpret this like you are \nrunning out of arguments. First, you put words in my mouth, now, you\nsay you do ot believe me.\n\n\n\nWhy don't you try reading for a change? Did I say that the Law of Return\ndemand a person to be religious? Now, how does the Law of Return define \nwho is a Jew and who is not? I said that it uses a religious standard:\nIf your mother is a Jew, you are a Jew, if your mother is not Jewish,\nneither you are.\nDo not twist my words, please.\n\n\n\nI am not talking about the debate. I am talking about how things are right\nnow. When the debate is over, I'll see what happens.\nRight now, things are like they are.\nLet me ask you one thing. I understand that Israel differenciates between\nCitizenship and Nationality. Suppose M(ale) and F(emale) have a child in\nIsrael. Which nationality will the child's ID show, according to each one\nof the following cases:\n\na) F and M are both Jewish.\nb) F is Jewsh and M is not.\nc) F is Muslim and M is jewish.\nd) F is Christian and M is Jewish.\ne) F and M are both non-Jewish.\n\n\n\n\nIt called history. At some point it was OK. Now, I believe, it is not. \n\n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n ^^^^^^^^\n\nInteresting. How do you know? Had I ever talked to you about this and \nforgotten about that?\n\n\n\nWhich definition are you now talking here about? \nI do not know why you are so touchy. I never said that you did not support\nPalestinian self-determination. I just gave an example of hypocrisy. I never\nsaid that someone in this net is guilty of it. It was just an example. Nothing\nmore, nothing less than that. Why did you have to clarify what you think?\n\n\nHere you have several problems.\nFirst, you should know that words have more meanings than those given in\nthe dictionary.\nSecond, it may come to be a shock for you to know that there are more\nwords than those in the dictionary.\nThird, we can exchange ideas if you want, but you come out with this nonsense\nabout being believable = using the definitions given in a dictionary.\nIt seems that you cannot answer to the ideas given by others without insulting\nothers. Sad.\n\n\nIf you did not put words in my mouth, it might be that you might\nstart reading what I had actually said. So far, you come over and over\ntwisting what I said or presenting things I never said as if I had said\nthem. In this way, you are answering to yourself. That is why you do not\nfind it believable. Maybe, if you start reading what I had actually said,\nand not what you added, you might change your mind.\n\n\nFirst, there is nothing resembling a fact in what you added to what I said,\nas if I had said it. \nSeconf, anyone else is supposed to mean \"than I do\"?\n\n", "\n The Israelis\n used to arrest and sometimes to kill some of these neutral reporters.\n\nEh???? Could you please give me details about an event where a \"Neutral\nObserver\" was killed by purpose by an Israeli soldier?\n\n--Amos", "\n\n\n\n\nAgressive actions are taken by both sides. Tough talk is done by both sides.\nWhen an arab leader is menacing to throw all jews in the water is also tough talk,\nI think. And killing people is mildly agressive (justified, in your opinion \nif they are israeli soldiers, justified, in others' opinion if they are jews, not\njustified at all in others opinion).\n\nWhen Brad wrote the article about 3 Israelis killed, ther was a lot of pride \nand satisfaction in his lines. That's what I feel disgusting. We may agree \nor not when a killing is 'technically' murder, but being enthousiastic about it?\n\n\nAnd again, I may appreciate some of your points, but you are not objective. That\nis not a blame, just a remark.\n", "\n\nI know nothing about statistics, but what significance does the\nrelatively small population growth rate have where the sampling period\nis so small (at the end of 1371)? Is it adequete to suggest a trend or\nis it just noise?\n", "While one may question the motives of the Arabs who sold land to Jews,\noften while publicly criticizing the sale of land to Jews, it was the\nJews and not the Arabs who were taken advantage of, as the prices the\nJews paid for barren land was many times the price fertile land was\nbeing sold for in the United States at the same time.", "\n\nNot sure. But the number of Israelis killed defending Israel is a little more\nthan 17,000 in the last 45 years and 61,000 injured.\n\nYou must try to make a mockery out of everything, don't you? Pathetic.", "The comparison of the Palestinian situation with the Holocaust\nis insulting and completely false. Any person making such a rude\nand false comparison is either ignorant of the Holocaust, or also\nignorant of the situation in the mideast, or is an anti-semite.", "\n\nPerhaps you've been under a rock since, say, the turn of the century. How\nin the #$^& is one man supposed to review every single freaking\ngovernmental action, every day? That's why we have an executive branch. HE\nreviewed the plan and said \"go,\" but he wasn't the architect and he wasn't\nthere, bullhorn in hand, implementing it. Yes, he was responsible in the\nsense that he was briefed. So what! Shit happens. That sounds like a\ncallous way to dismiss the deaths of 90+ people, but I can't understand why\npeople get so bent about the accidental death/suicide (which is it? could\ntake months...) of some total fucking sociopath/child molester and his\ncrazed followers while opposing U.S. intervention in Bosnia. Just like\nBilly boy said. I think some of you people have too much time on your\nhands, and screwed up priorities.\n\nJust my HO...", "\nThere is no doubt that Israeli authorities ordered the destruction of\nmosques in the vicinity of the Wailing Wall. That does not mean,\nhowever, that once can generalize from this to any other points. The\nentire plaza, mosques and all, was cleared to make it possible for Jews\nto have a place to worship in the place that was holiest to many of\nthem, and which had been denied to them for millenia.\n\nOn the other hand, throughout the rest of Jerusalem and Israel, to the\nbest of my knowledge, Israeli authorities have scrupulously avoided\ndamage to any Islamic religious sites. This contrasts with the policies\nof previous regimes which destroyed Jewish synagogues out of hate and\nbigotry.\n\n", "From: Center for Policy Research \nSubject: Desertification of the Negev\n\n\nThe desertification of the arid Negev\n------------------------------------- by Moise Saltiel, I&P March\n1990\n\nI. The Negev Bedouin Before and After 1948 II. Jewish\nAgricultural Settlement in the Negev III. Development of the\nNegev's Rural Population IV. Economic Situation of Jewish\nSettlements in 1990 V. Failure in Settling the Arava Valley\nVI. Failure in Settling the Central Mountains VII. Failure in\nMaking the Negev \"Bedouinenrein\" (Cleansing the Negev of Bedouins)\nVIII. Transforming Bedouin into Low-Paid Workers IX.. Failure\nin Settling the \"Development Towns\" X. Jordan Water to the\nNegev: A Strategic Asset XI. The Negev Becomes a Dumping\nGround XII. The Dimona Nuclear Plant XIII. The Negev as a\nMilitary Base XIV. The Negev in the Year 2000\n\nJust after the creation of the State of Israel, the phrase \"the\nJewish pioneers will make the desert bloom\" was trumpeted\nthroughout the Western world. After the Six Day War in 1967, David\nBen-Gurion declared in a letter to Charles de Gaulle: \"It's by our\npioneering creation that we have transformed a poor and arid land\ninto a fertile land, created built-up areas, towns and villages in\nabandoned desert areas\".\n\nContrary to Ben-Gurion's assertion, it must be affirmed that\nduring the 26 years of the British mandate over Palestine and for\ncenturies previous, a productive human presence was to be found in\nall parts of the Negev desert - in the very arid hills and valleys\nof the southern Negev as well as in the more fertile north. These\nwere the Bedouin Arabs.\n\nThe real desertification of the Negev, mainly in the southern\npart, occurred after Israel's dispossession of the Bedouin's\ncultivated lands and pastures. Nowadays, the majority of the\n12,800 square-kilometer Negev, which represents 62 percent of the\nState of Israel (pre-1967 borders), has been desertified beyond\nrecognition. The main new occupiers of the formerly Bedouin Negev\nare the Israeli army; the Nature Reserves Authority, whose chief\nrole is to prevent Bedouin from roaming their former pasture\nlands; and vast industrial zones, including nuclear reactors and\ndumping grounds for chemical, nuclear and other wastes. Israeli\nJews in the Negev today cultivate less than half the surface area\ncultivated by the Bedouin before 1948, and there is no Jewish\npastoral activity.\n\nI. Agricultural and pastoral activities of the Negev Bedouin\nbefore and after 1948\n-------------------------------------------------- In 1942,\naccording to British mandatory statistics, the Beersheba\nsub-district (which corresponds more or less to Israel's Negev, or\nSouthern, district) had 52,000 inhabitants, almost all Bedouin\nArabs, who held 11,500 camels, 6,000 cows and oxen, 42,000 sheep\nand 22,000 goats.\n\nThe majority of the Bedouin lived a more or less sedentary life in\nthe north, where precipitation ranged between 200 and 350 mm per\nyear. In 1944 they cultivated about 200,000 hectares of the\nBeersheba district - i.e. 16 percent of its total area and *more\nthan double the area cultivated by the Negev's Jewish settlers\nafter 40 years of \"making the desert bloom\"*\n\nThe Bedouin had a very low crop yield - 350 to 400 kilograms of\nbarley per hectare during rainy years - and their farming\ntechniques were primitive, but production was based solely on\nanimal and human labor. It must also be underscored that animal\nproduction, although low, was based entirely on pasturing.\nProduction increased considerably during the rainy years and\ndiminished significantly during drought years. All Bedouin pasture\nanimals - goats, camels and sheep - had the ability to gain weight\nquickly over the relatively rainy winters and to withstand many\nwaterless days during the hot summers. These animals were the\nresult of a centuries-old process of natural selection in harsh\nlocal conditions.\n\nAfter the creation of the State of Israel, 80 percent of the Negev\nBedouin were expelled to the Sinai or to Southern Jordan. The\n10,000 who were allowed to remain were confined to a territory of\n40,000 hectares in a region were annual mean precipiation was 150\nmm - a quantity low enough to ensure a crop failure two years out\nof three. The rare water wells in the south and central Negev,\nspring of life in the desert, were cemented to prevent Bedouin\nshepherds from roaming.\n\nA few Bedouin shepherds were allowed to stay in the central Negev.\nBut after 1982, when the Sinai was returned to Egypt, these\nBedouin were also eliminated. At the same time, strong pressure\nwas applied on the Bedouin to abandon cultivation of their fields\nin order that the land could be transferred to the army.\n\nNo reliable statistics exist concerning the amount of land held\ntoday by Negev Bedouin. It is a known fact that a large part of\nthe 40,000 hectares they cultivated in the 1950s has been seized\nby the Israeli authorities. Indeed, most of the Bedouin are now\nconfined to seven \"development towns\", or *sowetos*, established\nfor them.", "# \n# \n# ># So Steve: Lets here, what IS zionism?\n# \n# > Assuming that you mean 'hear', you weren't 'listening': he just\n# > told you, \"Zionism is Racism.\" This is a tautological statement.\n# \n# I think you are confusing \"tautological\" with \"false and misleading.\"\n\n No, but you're right that I didn't express myself well.\n\n The dialog went:\n\n A: \"Zionism is racism.\"\n B: \"What IS zionism?\"\n DC: \"You weren't listening, were you?\"\n\n In other words, the first statement *defined* a Zionism of discourse.\n Everything else was redundant.", "\nChris, solid job at discussing the inherent Nazism in Mr. Davidsson's post.\nOddly, he has posted an address for hate mail, which I think we should\nall utilize. And Elias,\n\nWie nur dem Koph nicht alle Hoffnung schwindet,\nDer immerfort an schalem Zeuge klebt?", "Subject: Re: Europe vs. Muslim Bosnians\nFrom: Satya Prabhakar, prabhak@giga.cs.umn.edu\nDate: Wed, 12 May 1993 15:50:31 GMT\nBIGOTRY\"\nMuslims,\n\nThis kind of racialist generalization is utterly inappropriate. SOME\nBosnian Muslims cooperated with the Nazis in World War 2. Other Bosnian\nMuslims risked their lifes to hide Jews from the Nazis and Ustashe, and\nthose Jews who survived the war remember that. In fact the Jewish leader\nin Sarajevo has remained there saying he wants to repay the debt to the\nBosnian Muslims that saved so many Jewish lives in WW2.\n\nSimilarly, SOME Serbs are \"doing\" to Muslims now. This is a group of\nserial-killers, rapists, and thieves who have control of the vast\nYugoslav army arsenal. Many other Serbs oppose these atrocities. As one\nof Serbian heritage who condemns emphatically the genocide being carried\nout against Muslims by both HVO and Mladic forces, I condemn your\ngeneralization about Bosnian Muslims and about Serbs.\n\n\n This is not a fresh case of\n\nEvery place on earth is the scene of a saga of mutual hatred and\ndestruction. The holocaust was not a \"fresh case.\" It was another\nchapter in a 900 year history of attacks on Jews in Europe. That didn't\nmake it acceptable. and Balkan history does not make the genocide against\nBosnian Muslims acceptable.\n\nNot taking sides in this\n\nStanding by and allowing well-armed criminals to slaughter Bosnian Muslim\ncivilians, while enforcing an arms embargo against the Bosnian Muslims is\nnot only religious bigotry it is direct complicity in mass-murder.\n\n\n It could just\n\nYou tell us a region on earth that does have a long history of war. NATO\nis the largest military \"police force\" in the world. It was not\n\"helpless.\" It could have stopped the carnage a year ago. \n\n\n\nRegards,\n\nMike.", "Welcome to the Peace Run\n\n You're invited to join in\n a Global Relay Run... and\n help light the Way.\n\n\n\n ---- Why the Peace Run ----\n\nThere's a new spirit in the Nineties: a spirit of oneness, a growing\nbelief in the possibility of true global peace.\n\nThe goal of the Sri Chinmoy Oneness-Home Peace Run is simple: to\nbring this spirit forward in a concrete way, to transform it into\na reality in their own lives.\n\nEvery other year, thousands of men, women and children from more\nthan 70 nations - passing a flaming Peace Torch from hand to hand -\njoin together in a relay run that virtually circles the globe.\nTranscending political and cultural boundaries, they go from\nnation to nation - across mountains, jungles and deserts - carrying\nthe message of brotherhood to all humankind.\n\nEach person who holds or runs with the Peace Torch lights a path\nfor those who follow. Each time the Peace Torch changes hands, the\nflame of oneness burns a little brighter - until one day it will\nshine in the hearts and minds of every individual on earth.\n\n\n\t\t ---- Making History ----\n\nThe three Peace Runs since 1987 have achieved some historic break-\nthroughs: in the Middle East, a landmark run crossed the Egyptian-\nIsraeli border; in Europe, a precedent-setting run linked Eastern\nand Western Europe with Russia; in the United States, Mexico and\nCanada, entire cities were dedicated to the cause of world peace;\nand in Poland, the Peace Torch was blessed by Pope John Paul II.\n\n\n\t\t ---- Speaking as One: World ----\n ---- Leaders, Celebrities - and You ----\n\nThe Peace Run has won the support of leaders the world over -\nPresidents, Prime Ministers, religious leaders, sports figures and\nentertainment personalities.\n\nIts message has spread to a half billion people though newspaper\nreports, magazine articles and radio and TV broadcasts, including\nspecials on PBS, MTV and NBC's Today Show.\n\nreconciliation. The world must know that God wants us to live\namicably as brothers and sisters, members of one family, the human\nfamily, God's family.\" - Archbishop Desmond Tutu,\n\t\t\t Nobel Peace Prize Winner\n\n\n\t\t ---- How It All Works ----\n\nPeace Run 1993 started with a five-borrough relay in New York\nCity on Saturday April 17, converging at various points to lead\nup to the opening ceremony outside the United Nations Dag\nHammarskjold Building. There, runners from around the world\nwere gathered for the fourth lighting of the Peace Torch.\n\nFrom there, Peace Torches are now being transported to over\nseventy countries for a series of concurrent international or\ncross-country relay runs including the United States, Canada,\nJapan, Australia, Russia and Eastern and Western Europe. Smaller\nruns will take place in the Philippines, Mexico, Israel, South\nAmerica, Egypt and elsewhere in Africa. Distance to be covered:\n31,000 miles.\n\nthe minds of those who support, participate in, witness, or hear\nabout the event.\" - Carl Lewis,\n Six-Time Olympic Gold Medalist\n\n\n ---- Who's Behind It ----\n\nThe Peace Run is sponsored by the Sri Chinmoy Marathon Team, an\ninternational running organization that believes sports can be a\npowerful instrument for promoting world peace. Each year the Team\nputs on hundreds of athletic events, including several world-class\nultramarathons, marathons and triathlons, in dozens of countries.\n\nThe Peace Run itself is inspired by the global peace ambassador\nSri Chinmoy, who has written and lectured extensively on peace,\noffered hundreds of free peace concerts and met with countless\nworld figures to advance the cause of international harmony.\n\nThe Run is managed by Peace Runs International, a non-profit\norganization based in the United States.\n\n\n ---- Take a Step For Peace ----\n\nThe Peace Runs in 1987, 1989 and 1991 attracted nearly half a\nmillion participants. We're expecting even more people to join\nPeace Run '93.\n\nYou can also join the Run - carrying the Peace Torch a few steps,\na few blocks or a few miles. Or you can come out and cheer the\nrunners as they carry the Torch through your community.\n\nYou can also join local celebrities and government officials in\none of the thousands of welcoming ceremonies scheduled along the\n70-nation route.\n\nYour inner support is important too. If you're a runner, each time\nyou go out, you can dedicate your run to the cause of world peace.\n\n\n\t\t ---- The Next Step is Yours ----\n\t\t ---- Make It One For Peace ----\n\n\nFor information contact:\nPeace Runs International\n161-44 Normal Road\nJamaica, NY 11432 USA\ntel. 718/291-6637 Fax: 718/291-6978\n\nPeace Run Canada\n2456 Agricola Street\nHalifax, Nova Scotia B3K 4C2\ntel. 902/425-1174 Fax: 902/420-0773", "\n\nYou apparently think you are some sort of one-man judge and jury who\ncan declare \"total\" victory and then sit back and enjoy the\napplause. But you've picked the wrong topic if you think a few\nrigged \"quotations\" can sustain the legend and lie of the Deir\nYassin \"massacre.\"\n\nYou have a lot to learn when it comes to historical methodology.\nAt the most basic level, you should know that there is a big\ndifference between weighing evidence fairly and merely finding\n\"quotations\" that support your preset opinions.\n\nIf you have studied the history of Israel at all you must know that\nmany of the sources of your \"quotations\" have an axe to grind, and\ntherefore you must be very careful about whom you \"quote.\" For\nexample, Meir Pa'il, whom you cite, was indeed a general, a scholar,\nand a war hero. But that doesn't mean everything that comes out of\nhis mouth is gold. In fact (and here your lack of experience\nshows), Pa'il is such a fanatic, embittered leftist that much of his\nanti-Israel blathering (forget about anti-Irgun blathering) would be\nconsidered something like treason in non-Israel contexts. But of\ncourse you don't consider this AT ALL when you find a juicy\n\"quotation\" that you can use to attack Israel.\n\nBenny Morris (of Hashomer Hatzair) represents himself as a \"scholar\"\nwhen he rehashes the old attacks on the Irgun. Don't be fooled.\nIt's just the old Zionist ideological catfight, surfacing as an\nattack on the (then-) Likud government. If you will look closely at\nthe section on Deir Yassin in his book on the War of Independence,\nyou will see his \"indictment\" to be pure hot air. And this is the\nBEST HE CAN DO after decades of digging for any sort of damning\nevidence. Unfortunately for him, because his book parades itself as\n\"scholarly,\" he is forced to put footnotes. So you can clearly see\nthat his Deir Yassin account is based on nothing.\n\nThe Deir Yassin \"massacre\" never took place as the propagandists\ntell it, any more than the Sabra and Shatila \"massacres.\" Do you get\nthe feeling people like to blame the Jews for \"massacres,\" even if\nthey have to make them up? It must sound spicy. Even some Jews\nlike to do it, for reasons of their own.\n\nPlease, don't confuse any of you Deir Yassin \"massacre\" stuff\nwith facts or scholarship. You should stick to Begin's version\nunless you find something serious to contradict it.", "\n\nCan anyone figure out what kind of deranged parent was stupid enough to\nbring their infant on a rock throwing crusade (or jihad, sorry)? 18-month\nold infants certainly don't walk around the streets on their own. That would\nlead me to believe that some nimrod of a \"parent\" brought them along for a \nlittle terrorism.\n\n\nthats what happened.\n\n\n\nUhm, last I heard, the territories were disputed. Israel's occupation is not\nillegal. They are legally allowed to remain there until a settlement is reached\nwith the arabs which, from the behavior of the Palestinian negotitating team,\nwill probably be never.\n\n\n\nhuh? they were buying vegetables.\n\n\n", "\n\t[...deleted...]\n\nAt least you're consistent. I'm sure the highly propagandized Germans\ntended to believe their government's version too in the thirties and\nforties as those \"different\" highly demonized Jewish \"cultists\" met\ntheir fate. Always trust your government.\n\n", "Actually, I'm still trying to understand the self-justifying rationale\nbehind the recent murder of Ian Feinberg (?) in Gaza.\n", "\nRust Staub is NOT Jewish.\nIn fact, I think his father was a minister.\n", "\n...and then his \"fantasy\" begins...\n\n\nThis clearly is a \"fantastic\" story, Anas! I am very curious as to who\n(or what) your sources are for this grossly exaggerated account (if not,\nblatant lie). It surprises me that this \"story\" has not yet made it to\nthe front pages of the major newspapers (which love to make the State of\nIsrael look as evil as humanly possible)! Such a story would be \"eaten up\"\nby some of the papers over here. So please explain to me why I have never\nseen nor heard of it before! - Believe me, I'm not expecting a reply because\nwe both know where the story came from... YOUR DREAMS!!!!", "\n \n This can be turned around. The Austrians who should feel guilty about\n their actions during WWII, but don't, justify their anti-semetism by making\n every Israeli action into an atrocity. The Austrians, Germans and other\n Europeans have extensive trading relations with the Arab block; being \n pro-Arab is good for business. I don't think that ethics has a thing to\n do about it.", "\n Israel - Happy 45th Birthday!", "\n\n\tWhat alternative would you suggest be taken to safeguard the\nlives of Israeli citizens?\n\nAdam\nAdam Shostack \t\t\t\t adam@das.harvard.edu", "I caught the tail end of a piece on NPR (National Public Radio) about\nChomsky. Apparently there is a new documentary about him and his\nconcepts on the propagandist news media of the West, or some such.\nThe funny thing is that NPR painted Chomsky and the documentary in\nsuch a positive light, or at least ended the report in a positive way.\nThe documentary is just now showing in a few cities in the US, and\nwill open in more cities in June. Sorry, forgot the title.", "\nThis a \"tried and true\" method utilized by guerilla and terrorists groups:\nto conduct operations in the midst of the local populace, thus forcing the\nopposing \"state\" to possible harm innocent civilians in their search or,\nin order to avoid the deaths of civilians, abandon the search. Certainly the\npeople who use the population for cover are *also* to blaim for dragging the\ninnocent civilians into harm's way.\n\nAre you suggesting that, when guerillas use the population for cover, Israel\nshould totally back down? So...the easiest way to get away with attacking\nanother is to use an innocent as a shield and hope that the other respects\ninnocent lives?\n\n\nYour damn right Israel insists on some sort of \"demilitarized\" or \"buffer\"\nzone. Its had to put up with too many years of attacks from the territory\nof Arab states and watched as the states did nothing. It is not exactly\nsurprizing that Israel decided that the only way to stop such actions is to \ndo it themselves.\n\n\nWhat? So the whole bit about attacks on Israel from neighboring Arab states \ncan start all over again? While I also hope for this to happen, it will\nonly occur WHEN Arab states show that they are *prepared* to take on the \nresponsibility and the duty to stop guerilla attacks on Israel from their \nsoil. They have to Prove it (or provide some \"guaratees\"), there is no way\nIsrael is going to accept their \"word\"- not with their past attitude of \ntolerance towards \"anti-Israel guerillas in-residence\".\n\nGood lord, Brad. What in the world goves you the idea that UN troops stop\nanything? They are ONLY stationed in a country because that country allows\nthem in. It can ask them to leave *at any time*; as Nasser did in '56 and\n'67. Somehow, with that \"limitation\" on the troops \"powers\" I don't\nthink that Israel is going to be any more comfortable. Without a *genuine* commitment to peace from the Arab states, and concrete (not intellectual or political exercises in jargon) \"guarantees\" by other parties, the UN is worthless\nto Israel (but, perhaps useful as a \"ruse\"?).\n\n\nPerhaps you are aware that, to most communities of people, there is\nthe feeling that it is better that \"many of us die fighting\nagainst those who attack us than for few to die while we silently \naccept our fate.\" If,however, you call on Israel to see the sense of \nsuffering fewer casualties, I suggest you apply the same to Palestinian,\nArab and Islamic groups.\n\n\nFrom Israel's perspective, \"concessions\" gets it NOTHING...except the \nrealization that it has given \"something\" up and now *can only \nhope* that the other side decides to do likewise. Words *can be taken\nback* by merely doing so; to \"take back\" tangible items (land,\ncontrol of land) requires the sort of action you say Israel should\nstay away from.\n \nIsrael put up with attacks from Arab state territories for decades \nbefore essentially putting a stop to it through its invasion of Lebanon.\nThe entire basis of that reality was exactly as you state above: 1) Israel \nwould express outrage at these attacks and protest to the Arab state \ninvolved, 2) that state promptly ignored the entire matter, secure \nin the knowledge that IT could not be held responsible for the acts \ncommitted by \"private groups\", 3) Israel would prepare for the next \nround of attacks. What would Israel want to return to those days (and\ndon't be so idiotic as to suggest \"trust\" for the motivations of\npresent-day Arab states)?\n\nAh, ok...what is \"different\" about the present situation that tells\nus that the Arab states will *not* pursue their past antagonistic \npolicies towards Israel? Now, don't talk about vague \"political factors\"\nbut about those \"tangible\" (just like that which Israel gave up)\nfactors that \"guarantee\" the responsibility of those states. Your\nassessment of \"difference\" here is based on a whole lot of assumptions,\nand most states don't feel confortable basing their existence on that\nsort of thing.\n\n\nIt has not. Without the support, and active involvement, of Syria,\nLebanon would not have been able to accomplish all that has occurred.\nOnce Syria leaves who is to say that Lebanon will be able to retain \ncontrol? If Syria stays thay may be even more dangerous for Israel.\nTim", "\nI lived there until July 1992 so I think that on the whole,\nmy input is relevant.\n\n\nThose are two separate questions. Obviously, Israeli authorities do\nrecognize Israeli nationality for some purposes, e.g. passports,\nconsular services, etc... ID cards have a field of nationality\nwhich is a subdivision of the above. Ostensibly, this field\nis provided for sevices provided by the religious departments\nof the gov't, though this is not the general case.\n\n\nFrom its onset, Israel's borders have been shaped and reshaped by both\nwar and peace. As such, the Israeli gov't has always felt that defining\nits borders is a step that is meaningful only after peace treaties have\nbeen conluded with its neighbors. There is no plan for \"ultimate borders\"\n(is this a game like \"ultimate frisbee\"?) extending into other countries.\n\n\nAside from what Vaanunu provided, no.\n\n\nIf that is true, then by virtue of the question's subject, it is\nunanswerable. Anyone who claims its validity. is claiming an oxymoron.\nThat having been said, I deny the above.\n\nYou go on to ask quite a number of questions that show an obvious\nbias. Questions of the sort \"Is it true that you entered your\nmother's vagina?\" which are based upon some kernel of truth, though\nphrased in a way as to render them repugnant and cast aspersions\nupon Israel. Incidentally, the answer to the above is usually yes,\nunless you were born via a C-section.\n", " >\n > The reason is very simple: How many people do you want to die in a riot?\n >In a new Civil War?", "It is all so changed by now. but in case any of you is\ninterested in what I actually said, I never compared the\nIsraeli treatment of the palestinians with the Holocaust.\nAnyway that is the truth if it matters. I was about to forget\nabout it myself since everyone started calling me anti-semitic\nfor making the comparison that I never made. What I did say was\nthat the Nazis didn't start with the Holocaust and their\ninitial actions were similar to what the Israelis are doing now.\n\tThe Jews that were stranded on the polish border since\nno country accepted them are like the arabs stranded on the\nlebenese border. No trials, no hearing, just expulsion based on\nguilt due to race. \n", "\n\nTo Andi,\n\nI have to disagree with you about the value of Israeli news sources. If you\nwant to know about events in Palestine it makes more sense to get the news\ndirectly from the source. EVERY news source is inherently biased to some\nextent and for various reasons, both intentional and otherwise. However, \nthe more sources relied upon the easier it is to see the \"truth\" and to discern \nthe bias. \n\nGo read or listen to some Israeli media. You will learn more news and more\nopinion about Israel and Palestine by doing so. Then you can form your own\nopinions and hopefully they will be more informed even if your views don't \nchange.", "\n\nWell over 100,000 in Lebanon alone.\n1,000,000 - 2,000,000 in the Iran/Iraq conflict, even if Iranians\naren't Arabs, strictly speaking. (They seem to hate the Zionists at\nleast as much as anyone else in the neighborhood. Is there some\ncorrelation perhaps between hating Israel and killing off your own\npeople?)\n", "\n[...]\n\nWait a minute, Doug. I know you are better informed than that. The US \nhas never invaded Nicaragua (as far as I know). We liberated Grenada \nfrom the Cubans\tto protect US citizens there and to prevent the completion \nof a strategic air strip. Panama we invaded, true (twice this century). \nVietnam? We were invited in by the government of S. Vietnam. (I guess \nwe \"invaded\" Saudi Arabia during the Gulf War, eh?) Mexico? We have \ninvaded Mexico 2 or 3 times, once this century, but there were no missiles \nfor anyone to shoot over here at that time. Hawaii? We liberated it from \nSpain.\n\nSo if you mean by the word \"invaded\" some sort of military action where\nwe cross someone's border, you are right 5 out of 6. But normally\n\"invaded\" carries a connotation of attacking an autonomous nation.\n(If some nation \"invades\" the U.S. Virgin Islands, would they be\ninvading the Virgin Islands or the U.S.?) So from this point of\nview, your score falls to 2 out of 6 (Mexico, Panama).\n\n[...]\n\nNo, it's someone who believes in \"peace-at-all-costs\". In other words,\na person who would have supported giving Hitler not only Austria and\nCzechoslakia, but Poland too if it could have averted the War. And one\nwho would allow Hitler to wipe all *all* Jews, slavs, and political \ndissidents in areas he controlled as long as he left the rest of us alone.\n\n\"Is it supposed to be bad to be a peace-nik,\" you ask? Well, it depends\non what your values are. If you value life over liberty, peace over\nfreedom, then I guess not. But if liberty and freedom mean more to you\nthan life itself; if you'd rather die fighting for liberty than live\nunder a tyrant's heel, then yes, it's \"bad\" to be a peace-nik.\n\nThe problem with most peace-niks it they consider those of us who are\nnot like them to be \"bad\" and \"unconscionable\". I would not have any\nargument or problem with a peace-nik if they held to their ideals and\nstayed out of all conflicts or issues, especially those dealing with \nthe national defense. But no, they are not willing to allow us to\nlegitimately hold a different point-of-view. They militate and \nmany times resort to violence all in the name of peace. (What rank\nhypocrisy!) All to stop we \"warmongers\" who are willing to stand up \nand defend our freedoms against tyrants, and who realize that to do\nso requires a strong national defense.\n\nTime to get off the soapbox now. :)\n\n[...]\n\nRegards,", "From: Center for Policy Research \nSubject: Ten questions about Israel\n\n\nTen questions to Israelis\n-------------------------\n\nI would be thankful if any of you who live in Israel could help to\nprovide\n accurate answers to the following specific questions. These are\nindeed provocative questions but they are asked time and again by\npeople around me.\n\n1. Is it true that the Israeli authorities don't recognize\nIsraeli nationality ? And that ID cards, which Israeli citizens\nmust carry at all times, identify people as Jews or Arabs, not as\nIsraelis ?\n\n2. Is it true that the State of Israel has no fixed borders\nand that Israeli governments from 1948 until today have refused to\nstate where the ultimate borders of the State of Israel should be\n?\n\n3. Is it true that Israeli stocks nuclear weapons ? If so,\ncould you provide any evidence ?\n\n4. Is it true that in Israeli prisons there are a number of\nindividuals which were tried in secret and for which their\nidentities, the date of their trial and their imprisonment are\nstate secrets ?\n\n5. Is it true that Jews who reside in the occupied\nterritories are subject to different laws than non-Jews?\n\n6. Is it true that Jews who left Palestine in the war 1947/48\nto avoid the war were automatically allowed to return, while their\nChristian neighbors who did the same were not allowed to return ?\n\n7. Is it true that Israel's Prime Minister, Y. Rabin, signed\nan order for ethnical cleansing in 1948, as is done today in\nBosnia-Herzegovina ?\n\n8. Is it true that Israeli Arab citizens are not admitted as\nmembers in kibbutzim?\n\n9. Is it true that Israeli law attempts to discourage\nmarriages between Jews and non-Jews ?\n\n10. Is it true that Hotel Hilton in Tel Aviv is built on the\nsite of a muslim cemetery ?\n\nThanks,", "\n How many of you readers know anything about Jews living in the\nArab countries? How many of you know if Jews still live in these\ncountries? How many of you know what the circumstances of Arabic\nJews leaving their homelands were? Just curious.\n\n\n", "\nI suppose for the same reason Jews call the Occupied Territory, Judea and\nSumaria. It's called propaganda and if you repeat lies often enough,\npeople start to believe it.", "\nI don't, though when I was in Israel I did make a point of listening\nto JTV news, as well as Monte Carlo Radio. In the United States,\nI generally read the NYT, and occasionally, a mainstream Israeli\nnewpaper.\n\n\nWhat you may not be taking into account is that the JP is no longer\nrepresentative of the mainstream in Israel. It was purchased a few\nyears ago and in the battle for control, most of the liberal and\nleft-wing reporters walked out. The new owner stated in the past,\nmore than once, that the JP's task should be geared towards explaining\nand promoting Israel's position, more than attacking the gov't (Likud\nat the time). The paper that I would recommend reading, being middle\nstream and factual is \"Ha-Aretz\" - or at least this was the case two\nyears ago.\n\n\nAnd what about the \"Nat'l Enquirer\"? 8^)\nBut seriously, if one were to read some of the leftist newspapers\none could arrive at other conclusions. The information you received\nwas highly selective and extrapolating from it is a bad move.\n", "\nContrary to what the \"Protocols of Zion crowd\" might suggest,\nJudaism does not have any such goals.\n\n\nThe question you ask is complicated and deserves an honest answer.\nI am going to provide one from my own current perspective, not a historical\none. Currently, as a non-observant jew/Israeli/American, my own feeling\nis that Jews from the diaspora do not have a greater right in Palestine or\nIsrael, than the palestinians or Israelis (both arab and jew) do.\nWith regard to Jewish Israelis, they should have the same rights\nin Israel as do all other Israelis.\n\n\nWho are them? If by them you mean the non-religious Jews, I think\nyou should be aware by now that the majority of the settlers and their\nsupporters are religious. The other part of the problem is, to my\nknowledge, not that the palestinians don't want to be a part of Israel,\nas much as they would accept (for the most part) being full citizens\nof Israel, with all the priviliges and responsibilities accorded Israeli\ncitizens. What they object to is the current limbo in which they find\nthemselves.\n\n", "I recently read that during Bill Clinton's campaign, he stated\nthat if elected he would immediately recognize Jerusalem as\nIsrael's capital. According to the article, Mr. Clinton\nreaffirmed this after winning the presidency. However,\nduring recent talks with President Mubarak, Secretary of\nState Christopher stated that \"the status of Jerusalem\nwill be a final matter of discussion between the parties\".\n\nNow I don't want to start a big discussion over the status\nof Jerusalem. All I want to know is if anyone can \nauthenticate Mr. Clinton's statements with dates, places, etc.\n\nThank you.", "Hamza answers one of my articles:\n\n[TO] If indeed Israeli soldiers killed a \"Hamas Mujahid\" with an anti-tank\n[TO] missile then I'm almost sure that the \"terrorist zionists\" would not\n[TO] have been able to cut up a body which was probably desintegrated by the\n[TO] missile.\n\n[Hamza] maybe the missile didn't hit directly such that his body\n[Hamza] gets \"desintegrated.\" of course, destroying 10 houses to\n[Hamza] kill someone is not a surgical operation, or is it?\n\nWell done Hamza. You edited my answer to Anas Omran, took everything out\nof context and then replied to it the way you wanted.\nNow I really understand why the peace process is not making any progress.\n\nYou guys ain't listening, just babbling away to your same old rhetoric.", "\n\n7. Massacre of Jews in WWII: 6.3 million\n8. Massacre of other 'inferior races' in WWII: 10 million\n9. Communist purges: 20-30 million? [Socialism is more or less a religion]\n10. Catholics V Protestants : quite a few I'd imagine\n11. Recent goings on in Bombay/Iodia (sp?) area: ??\n12. Disease introduced to Brazilian * oher S.Am. tribes: x million\n\n\nThe Desert Brat", "\n\nThe American people didn't have any problem with it too (Clinton). Actually I\nthink that it does not make any difference as long as they have the\nqualifications to become leaders. BTW in my political view I hope (and should be \nthe Arab hope too) that Binyamin Netanyahu will not be ellected as prime minister \nof Israel.\n\nNaftaly\n\n----", "\n\nThat still doesn't mean we should cheer their deaths. Policemen are also in \nthe line of fire and their job includes the possibility of getting killed. \nShould we be happy when they die? As I said before, the question is not\nwhether or not you agree with the policies of Israel. You may wish for the\nIsraelis to cease occupation, but don't rejoice in death.\n", "\n\nWhere the hell do you get off calling it \"Arab land\"? Jews have been\nliving there for a long time. Jews didn't just start arriving in 1900,\nthey've been living there for thousands of years, except for periods when\nthey were expelled but they always returned home.\n\n Steve\n-- ", "\nThis would be one of the results of \"U.S. backed PEACE!!!!!!\" process.\n\nHamid", "I hear George Bush (remember him?) will receive an honors degree from\nsome Kuwaiti University for contributing to certain Kuwaiti interests\nnot too long ago. Do you think it would add much to his resume? ;-)\n\n\n\n", "\n\nAlthough I don't want to muddy the waters unnecessarily I disagree. Any\ndiscrimination based on religion is not and cannot be racist unless the\nsole qualification for religious membership is racial. This is not the\ncase for Israel although it might get a little closer than, say, Islam.\nThis of course raises the vexed question of Church AntiSemitism. Jews\nhave been heavily discriminated against on the grounds of religion in\nmany Christian countries. If we take Russia as an example Jews were\nseriously persecuted but that persecution in the eyes of the Church\nand State stopped at the baptismal font. Officially anyway. If a Jew\nconverted there were no legal barriers in his way (that I know of anyway.)\nPeter the Great's Interior Minister came from such a convert background.\nCan we then claim that the Russian Orthodox did not teach AntiSemitism\nand was not AntiSemitic? Similarly for the Roman Catholic Church? I\nsuspect so as this is not a racial 'taint' but one based on belief\nand AS is after all a form of racism. Well maybe not. What is\nAntiSemitism then if not something racially based? I wonder if Hitler\nkilled converts of 'pure' German blood. Does anyone know one way or\nthe other?\n\nJoseph Askew\n", "I guess Hasan finally revealed the source of his claim that Israel\ndiverted water from Lebanon--his imagination.", "\n This is such Bullshit. Deir Yassin was an unprovoked attack on\n the part of the Jews, and a massacre defines it best in my\n opinion. The village of Deir Yassin had had a pact with the\n Jews, a peace pact, but the Irgun purposely broke this\n agreement in order to scare off the Palestinians. I might\n grant that this village housed armed Arabs [I doubt it] but\n nothing in the archives and available literature indicates that\n this was a motivating force amongst the Irgun. The Deir Yassin\n MASSACRE was part of an over all strategy to intimidate the\n Palestinians to flee the Jewish Homeland.,...and contrary to\n your belief, many civilians were killed. Deir Yassin was later\n advertized by the very Jews who perpetrated it because it was\n useful in getting many Palestinians to leave. The Palestinians\n were rightfully scared off, because they did not want another\n Deir Yassin. \n\t I'm not necessarily condemning the Israelites here;\n atrocities were aslo committed on the part of the Arabs.\n Israelophiles should just be careful in thinking that they are\n and were the good guys in the middle east. Both Arab and Jew\n suck equally.\n\nrj3s, you say that there is no evidence that what motivated the Irgun\nto attack Dir Yassin was its strategic importance. In fact, Begin,\nwho was in charge of the Irgun, wrote that Dir Yassin was attacked for\nits military significance.\n\nDir Yassin was merely a battle in the War of Liberation. People died.\nBut the thing was never intended to be a masacre. That this hapenned\nis a tragedy of war - not a crime of the Irgun.", "From: Center for Policy Research \nSubject: Hebrew labor: racist connotations\n\n\nAVODA IVRIT - HEBREW LABOR\n---------------------------------\n\n\"Hebrew labor\" is a concept which has served the Zionist movement\nfor a long time. It has a double-barreled message: 1) The new Jew\nmust learn to do physical labor, i.e. working the land; 2) The\nland in this country must pass into Jewish hands, i.e. to the same\nnew Jew who has \"learned\" to work it. Both aspects of the\ntwo-pronged concept of \"Hebrew labor\" have racist connotations. On\nthe one hand, the diaspora Jew's lack of training in physical\nlabor is a myth shared by Zionists and antisemites. On the other\nhand, its meaning in practice has been the displacement of the\nArab farmer from the source of his livelihood.\n\nThe occupation and the cheap Palestinian labor which streamed from\nthe occupied territories to the factories, orchards, and\nhot-houses of Israel relegated the myth of \"Hebrew labor\" to the\nhistory books and nostalgic memories of the Zionist Movement. It\nhas blossomed forth anew, however, as the government's answer to\nproblems caused by the closure of the territories. Today too this\nconcept has two functions: 1) to give a progressive look to the\nclosing of the Palestinian population. Or in the words of\nEnvironment Minister Yossi Sarid, \"I have no tears for those who\nget rich off of cheap labor\". 2) to furnish an answer to the\nunemployed Israeli who complains of being obliged to work for\nwages that are lower than the unemployment insurance he receives.", "can anybody guess this from the title?\n\nNot me, I thought that a clash between Israelis and Arabs resulted\nin four deaths on one side and two on the other.\n\n\nHow about being illegally settled there?\nI am not sure about the signals the Israelis are sending, one day\nthey are willing to accept a Jordan/West Bank federation, the other\nthey do not recognize the west bank as occupied territory (neither\ndid the U.S, \"the honest brocker\")\n(details of the killings omitted, PLO,Hamas graffiti both claim responsability)\n\n\nNow don't tell me that this could not be an Israeli spy.\nWe will know later.\n\n\t\t\t*********************************\nNow the UPI shows its ugly face once and for all.\nUSUALLY?\nIt happened once this year, once last year. out of possibly thousands\nor more. Man how low can you get.", "\n\n\nFrom a recent interview in Middle East Insight magazine,\nClinton said that he supports moving the US Embassy to\nJerusalem, but would not do so at this time because it\nwould interrupt the peace talks. \n\n--\nmsilverm@nyx.cs.du.edu\t\t\t\tGO CUBS!!!", "==========================================================================\n Yes, we do have a beautiful country. And I enjoy it. Most of all, I\n enjoy the thought that I have the means and can exercise my rights\n to defend me and mine. \n \n And I want to thank all of you good folks, like Prescod, who remind me\n of what I have. Along this line, I watched a documentary on one of the\n Nazi concentration camps. Stacks and stacks of bodies. There were scenes\n of Hitler speechifying, and what struck me, was the reverence and adoration\n on the faces of the people in the crowds. I guess they were happy that\n Hitler had implemented full gun control and was taking care of the Jewish\n problem all at the same time.", "\n\nIf anyone gets the New York Times, the Edit page has a transcript\nof a VHS from Hams describing their methods of torture and \nexecution. I will post it later on.\n\n\n\n\n", "\n\n...quickly followed by...\n\n\nThis is the standard method for claiming non-combatant status, even\nfor the commanders of combat.\n\n\n\"Innocent civilians\"??? Like the ones who set up the booby traps or\nengaged in shoot-outs with soldiers or attack them with grenades or\naxes? \n\n\nAnd the rest of the world is getting used to Arab tactics of claiming\ninnocence for even the most guilty of the vile murderers among them.\nKeep it up long enough and it will backfire but good.\n", "\n\n\nNow you are actually claiming that 2,000,000 Muslims have been killed\nin B-H???\n\nPlease substantiate this utterly ridiculous claim.", "\n\n\n\tIn Islam, there is no compulsion, just a tax on dhimini. In\nJudaism, non-Jews are allowed to do as they wish, and there is no\neffort made to convert them.\n\n\n\n\nAdam Shostack \t\t\t\t adam@das.harvard.edu", "\nThis has been discussed before, by several people, on this net. The\nstatement is attributable either to Hajj Amin al-Husseini, former Grand\nMufti of Jerusalem - and the leader of the Palestinian death squads\nduring the 1948 war, or to one of his chief henchmen. \n\nIt was not coined by B'nai B'rith or, for that matter, any Jewish\norganization. \n", "\nThose areas became states.\n\nPuerto Rico has the population needed to become a state. But the ethnic\nmix there is such that Puerto Rico will probably never become a state.\n\nI say we cut them loose. If they don't want to become a state, we\nshouldn't continue to subsidize their existence.", ": \n: \"But Hadas might be a fictitious character invented by the two men for \n: billing purposes, said Mohammed Mehdi, head of the Arab-American Relations Committee.\"\n: \n: Tim\n\nI would remind readers of the fact that the NY Daily News on March 5th \nreported the arrest of Joise Hadas. Foreign newspapers reported her\nrelease shortly afterwards. I can provide copies of the articles \nupon request.", "I was curious to check out how many San Jose Mercury News mentioned\nTyre (1990-92). Here's the outcome from the research (condenced versions,\ncopyright San Jose Mercury news):\n\n---\n Bombings in the two largest cities in southern Lebanon killed 11 people\nand \nwounded 80 others. A car bomb blew up in Tyre, killing 10 people and\nwounding \n75. A man was killed and five others seriously wounded in an explosion in \nNabatiye.\n---\n An Israeli navy patrol boat attacked and sank a rubber guerrilla boat off\n\nsouthern Lebanon early today, killing the two men aboard, the army command \nsaid.\n \n It said in a communique that a Dvora patrol boat opened fire on the \nmotorized rubber dinghy north of Tyre after identifying it as hostile. The\narmy \nsaid no one on the Israeli boat was injured. The affiliation of the slain \nguerrillas was not immediately known.\n---\n Rival factions of the guerrilla group led by terrorist mastermind Abu\nNidal \nbattled Sunday in Tyre, Lebanon, with machine guns and rocket-propelled \ngrenades, killing at least four people and wounding 15, police said.\n---\n Lebanon's mainstream Shiite Muslim militia said Thursday that it had \nuncovered a network of tunnels in a southern Lebanese village where it said\npro-\nIranian kidnappers had held Western hostages.\n \n Officials of the militia, Amal, led local journalists through the\ncatacomb-\nlike alleys and showed them two cells with iron doors at the village, \nKawthariyet al Siyad, near Tyre, the ancient port city, about 40 miles\nsouth of \nBeirut.\n \n The officials said they were certain that U.S. Marine Lt. Col. William\nR. \nHiggins was detained there shortly after he was seized by gunmen on a road \noutside Tyre in February 1988.\n--------------\n...anyway, I counted 20 articles during these 3 years of reporting. I also\nfound out the possible reason why the numbers for the inhabitants of the\ncity is defined between 14000 and 24000. It seems that Tyre is one of the\nplaces\nwhere people from Libanon flee to during more extensive bombings, so\nthere's\na constant flow of refugees entering and leaving Tyre (articles mentioned\nthousands of people entering and leaving this place).\n\nI counted 0 articles for my home town, Kristinestad, so from now I will\nconsider this place to be a fishing village :-).\n\nCheers,\nKent\n", "\nThey were attacking the Iraqis to drive them out of Kuwait,\na country whose citizens have close blood and business ties\nto Saudi citizens. And me thinks if the US had not helped out\nthe Iraqis would have swallowed Saudi Arabia, too (or at \nleast the eastern oilfields). And no Muslim country was doing\nmuch of anything to help liberate Kuwait and protect Saudi\nArabia; indeed, in some masses of citizens were demonstrating\nin favor of that butcher Saddam (who killed lotsa Muslims),\njust because he was killing, raping, and looting relatively\nrich Muslims and also thumbing his nose at the West.\n\nSo how would have *you* defended Saudi Arabia and rolled\nback the Iraqi invasion, were you in charge of Saudi Arabia???\n\n\nI think that it is a very good idea to not have governments have an\nofficial religion (de facto or de jure), because with human nature\nlike it is, the ambitious and not the pious will always be the\nones who rise to power. There are just too many people in this\nworld (or any country) for the citizens to really know if a \nleader is really devout or if he is just a slick operator.\n\n\nYou make it sound like these guys are angels, Ilyess. (In your\nclarinet posting you edited out some stuff; was it the following???)\nFriday's New York Times reported that this group definitely is\nmore conservative than even Sheikh Baz and his followers (who\nthink that the House of Saud does not rule the country conservatively\nenough). The NYT reported that, besides complaining that the\ngovernment was not conservative enough, they have:\n\n\t- asserted that the (approx. 500,000) Shiites in the Kingdom\n\t are apostates, a charge that under Saudi (and Islamic) law\n\t brings the death penalty. \n\n\t Diplomatic guy (Sheikh bin Jibrin), isn't he Ilyess?\n\n\t- called for severe punishment of the 40 or so women who\n\t drove in public a while back to protest the ban on\n\t women driving. The guy from the group who said this,\n\t Abdelhamoud al-Toweijri, said that these women should\n\t be fired from their jobs, jailed, and branded as\n\t prostitutes.\n\n\t Is this what you want to see happen, Ilyess? I've\n\t heard many Muslims say that the ban on women driving\n\t has no basis in the Qur'an, the ahadith, etc.\n\t Yet these folks not only like the ban, they want\n\t these women falsely called prostitutes? \n\n\t If I were you, I'd choose my heroes wisely,\n\t Ilyess, not just reflexively rally behind\n\t anyone who hates anyone you hate.\n\n\t- say that women should not be allowed to work.\n\n\t- say that TV and radio are too immoral in the Kingdom.\n\nNow, the House of Saud is neither my least nor my most favorite government\non earth; I think they restrict religious and political reedom a lot, among\nother things. I just think that the most likely replacements\nfor them are going to be a lot worse for the citizens of the country.\nBut I think the House of Saud is feeling the heat lately. In the\nlast six months or so I've read there have been stepped up harassing\nby the muttawain (religious police---*not* government) of Western women\nnot fully veiled (something stupid for women to do, IMO, because it\nsends the wrong signals about your morality). And I've read that\nthey've cracked down on the few, home-based expartiate religious\ngatherings, and even posted rewards in (government-owned) newspapers\noffering money for anyone who turns in a group of expartiates who\ndare worship in their homes or any other secret place. So the\ngovernment has grown even more intolerant to try to take some of\nthe wind out of the sails of the more-conservative opposition.\nAs unislamic as some of these things are, they're just a small\ntaste of what would happen if these guys overthrow the House of\nSaud, like they're trying to in the long run.\n\nIs this really what you (and Rached and others in the general\nwest-is-evil-zionists-rule-hate-west-or-you-are-a-puppet crowd)\nwant, Ilyess?\n", "\n\n\n\n\nFrom what I read, the other fellow told Salameh how to put it together\nover the phone. The bomb was supposedly some sort of sophisticated\ntype, so to put a (I assume complicated) sophisticated bomb together\nfrom instructions _over the phone_ (!) one must need some brains I would\nexpect.\n\n\n\nI read this in an article in \"The Australian Muslim Times\", the\nnewspaper (weekly) of the Australian Muslim community. \n\nIf this is true, perhaps one of the Muslims based in North America (if\nthey see this posting) can elaborate.\n\n\n\n\n\n\nI don't deny this fact.\n\nThe thrust of my argument here is that \n\n(a) Salameh is, according to US law, innocent as he has not been found\nguilty in a court of law. As his guilt has not been established, it is\nwrong for people to make postings based on this assumption.\n\n(b) Islam teaches us _not_ to harm innocents. If Muslims -- who perhaps\nhave not realized that Islam teaches this -- perform such actions, it is\n_not_ _because_ of the teachings of Islam, but rather _in spite of_ and\n_in contradiction to_ the teachings of Islam. This is an important \ndistinction.\n\nI should clarify what Muslims usually mean when they say \"Muslim\". In\ngeneral, anyone who calls themselves a \"Muslim\" and does not do or \noutwardly profess\nsomething in clear contradiction with the essential teachings of Islam\nis considered to be a Muslim. Thus, one who might do things contrary to\nIslam (through ignorance, for example) does not suddenly _not_ become a\nMuslim. If one knowingly transgresses Islamic teachings and essential\nprinciples, though, then one does leave Islam.\n\nThe term \"Muslim\" is to be contrasted with \"Mu'min\", which means \"true\nbeliever\". However, whether a Muslim is in reality a Mu'min is\nsomething known only by God (and perhaps that person himself). So you\nwill not find the term Mu'min used very much by Muslims in alt.atheism,\nbecause it is not known to anybody (except myself and God), whether I,\nfor example, am a \"true believer\" or not. For example, I could just be\nputting on a show here, and in reality believe something opposite to\nwhat I write here, without anyone knowing. Thus, when we say \"Muslims\"\nwe mean all those who outwardly profess to follow Islam, whether in\npractice they might, in ignorance, transgress Islamic teachings. By\n\"Muslim\" we do not necessarily mean \"Mu'min\", or \"true believer\" in\nIslam.", "\n\nGreat, someone will be posting from 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion' next\n\n\nAt this time the PLO did not exist and would not for the next 20 years.\nYou knew that didn't you? Perhaps you might want to add up all the Jewish\ncivilians killed during the 48 War. I'll opt for the massacre at Deir Yassin.\nWhich do you think is the greater?\n\n\nWhile we are talking about this man I have included more of his testimony\nthat Harry naturally does not use nor does Myths and Facts. I wonder why.\nNo doubt he was lying right Harry?\n\n \"The reason was mainly economic. That is\n to capture booty in order to maintain\n the bases which we had then established\n with very poor resources. The main idea,\n despite this, remained the conquest of\n the village by force of arms, something\n which was then unknown in the country,\n and became a turning point in Jewish\n military operations\"\n\n Yehuda Lapidot, Jabontinsky Archives Testimony\n\n \"Apart from the military discussion, the\n Lehi put forward a proposal to liqui-\n date the residents of the village after\n the conquest, in order to show the Arabs\n what happens when the IZL and the Lehi\n set out together on an operation, and for\n another main reason - it would cause a\n great uproar throughout the land and\n would be an important turning point in\n the course of the battles. The clear aim\n was to break the Arab morale and raise\n somewhat the morale of the Jewish commu-\n nity in Jerusalem, which had been hit\n hard time after time, especially recenctly\n by the desecration of Jewish bodies which\n fell into Arab hands\"\n\n Yehuda Lapidot, Jabotinsky Archives\n testimony as quoted by Yisrael Segal in\n \"The Deir Yassin File\", published by\n Koteret Rashit 19th January 1983\n\nSo it wasn't like the Holocaust more like Lidice - a warning, a punishment.\nCollective and inflicted on unarmed innocents just not as through.\n\n \"When it comes to prisoners, old people\n and children, there were differences\n of opinion, but the majority was for\n liquidation of all the men in the village\n and any other force that opposed us,\n whether it be old people, women or children\n\n Benzion Cohen\n Commander of the attack on Deir Yassin,\n (J.A.T.)\n\nLet me put in some words here\n a. premeditated\n b. murder\nWhat do you say about the eyewitness testimony of the man in command?\n\n \"We had prisoners and before the retreat\n we decided to liquidate them. We also\n liquidated the wounded, as anyway we could\n not give them first aid. In one place\n about eighty Arab prisoners were killed\n after some of them had opened fire and\n killed one of the people who came to give\n them first aid. Arabs who dressed up\n as Arab women were also found, and so\n they started to shoot the women also who\n did not hurry to the area where the\n prisoners were concentrated\"\n\n (J.A.T.)\n\nShooting prisoners, the wounded, as a warning to hurry? Sounds VERY\nfamiliar to me, how about you? Heard of other people other places doing\nthese things?\n\n \"In one case - the Zahran family - only\n one out of twenty five survived. In\n another house they caught the sixteen\n year old son Fuad. His mother was holding\n him. They killed him with a knife. The\n mother spent twenty years after that in\n a mental hospital. A young woman and her\n two year old baby were shot in the\n street. Their bodies were left there.\n They moved to the centre of the village\n and started to kill everybody they saw or\n heard, as soon as anybody opened his\n door. They were using bombs [grenades],\n machine-guns, submachine-guns. My cousin\n escaped with bullet-holes in his clothes.\n One of the officers put his machinegun\n through a window and started shooting\n outwards, killing everybody who moved.\n They killed my uncle, Ali Hassan Zeidan,\n and my aunt Fatima. She heard him call\n 'help me'. She ran to him and they killed\n her. Another neighbour Haj Yarah,\n heard some voices and came out. They killed\n him too. His son Muhammad, who was\n about seventeen, heard his father call\n him and went to the same place. They\n killed him. His mother heard her son cry\n for help. She ran out and they killed\n her. That was near my house. I saw this\"\n\n Muhammad Arif Sammour\n\nFunny how 'Myths and Facts' does not see fit to include this too - after all\nif he is reliable enough to report casualties why not the actual events? What\ndo you say about this Harry?\n\n \"In the exchange that followed four men\n were killed and a dozen were wounded..\n ..by noon time the battle was over and\n the shooting had ceased. Although there\n was a calm, the village had not yet surrendered.\n The Irgun and Lehi men came\n out of hiding and began to 'clean' the houses.\n They shot whoever they saw, women\n and children included, the commanders did\n not try and stop the massacre...I\n pleaded with the commander to order his\n men to cease fire, but to no avail. In\n the meantime twenty five Arabs had been\n loaded on a truck and driven through\n Mahane-Yehuda and Zichron Yosef. At the\n end of the drive, they were taken to\n the quarry bvetween Deir Yassin and Givat\n Shaul, and murdered in cold blood\"\n\n Meir Pa'il, interview with Yediot Ahronot 4|4|1972\n", "Many of you ask me whether I approve of severe human rights\nviolations by Arab States becuse I focus on Israeli human rights\nviolations.\n\nLet's make things clear: My opposition to H.R. violations in Arab\nStates is total and without qualification. No Arab State is and can\nclaim to be democratic. No Arab state claims to be democratic.\n\nI am born in Palestine (now Israel). I have family there. The lack of\npeace and utter injustice in my home country has affected me all my life.\nI am concerned by Palestine (Israel) because I want peace to come to\nit. Peace AND justice. \n\nIf anybody has legitimate claims towards Arab states, he should present\nhis claims and ask for support. Jews who left Arab states are fully \nentitled to make claims and should do so, if they consider their case has\na merit. It is their basic right to return to these countries, if they\nwish. If not, they should not complain and compare themselves to the\nPalestinians who have been struggling for the right of return since\nIsrael was established and whose right is upheld by the United Nations\nquasi totally. If Jews feel discriminated in Arab countries, they have a\nlegitimate claim that any decent person can and should support. \n\nHuman rights violations by Arab States don't justify, legitimate nor\nare the cause for Israeli breaches of international law and human rioghts.\nIsraeli breaches stem from the Zionist concept, which can only be\nimplemented by negating basic rights to Palestinians. \n\nIsraeli trights and Palestinian rights are not symmetrical. The first\nparty has a state and the other has none. The first is an occupier and\nthe second the occupied. For any meaningful relationship to emerge, some\nsymmetry must be established. As long as Israelis and Jews don't realise\nthe necessity of a change of perspective towards the Palestinian people\nand as long as Israelis and Jews don't want to exorcise their own\npast towards the Palestinians (the Naqba of 1948, etc.) and refuse to\nacknowledge that the creation of Israel was dependent upon the removal\nof most Palestinian Arabs, there will be no base for a real trust.\n\nWhen I read the first time the list of the 383 Arab villages\ndestroyed by the State of Israel in and after 1948, I got a shock. \nI hope others will be touched by this discovery and think about the\nmeaning of such massive destruction and destitution.", "\nI'm not sure about this but I hope the answer is that you can't apply under\nthe law of return. By conversion, you've elected not to be a part of the\nJewish nation.\n\n\n\nAt the moment you converted, you officially anounced to the world that *you* do not\nconsider yourself to be part of the Jewish Nation. So, why should the Jewish Nation\nconsider you to be a member?\n\n\n\nNo. As a result of wars brought by the Arabs against the Jews in an attempt to\nannihilate Israel, the Arabs have lost their claim to land there. Attacking Israel\nis/was illegal and they now have to pay the price. Do I feel sorry for the\nPalestinians? Yes I do. But I blame the Arab nations for their problems, not\nIsrael.\n", "\n Great interview with Benjamin Netanyahu on CNN - Larry King Live (4/15/93)\n This guy is knows what he is talking about. He is truely charismatic,\n articulate, intelligent, and demonstrates real leadership qualities. \n\nI agree, but I wish I liked his politics.\n", "Less Than 40 People (617) 267-1700\n40 or more (617) 262-1915", "This is nonsense. I lived in the Negev for many years and I can say\nfor sure that no Beduins were \"moved\" or harmed in any way. On the\ncontrary, their standard of living has climbed sharply; many of them\nnow live in rather nice, permanent houses, and own cars. There are\nquite a few Beduin students in the Ben-Gurion university. There are\ngood, friendly relations between them and the rest of the population.\n\nAll the Beduins I met would be rather surprised to read Mr. Davidson's\nposter, I have to say.", "First this man promotes the dissolution of the Jews through an\nintermarriage process, and then says that it will be just a bunch\nof 'fundamentalist' Jews who will object. This clown even called\nfor 'buying' the dissolution of the Jewish people.\n\n Does this idiot mean to suggest that any Jew who objects to an\nimibicilic notion like this is fundamentalist? Or does he simply\nmean to insult the orthodox by using the word 'fundamentalist?'\n\n I am not orthodox. I am not fundamentalist. I would desire a\ngenuine peace in the region more than this pinhead Davidsson can\never understand. But when he shows his willingness to dismiss an\nentire culture, he proves that the only thing more brain-boggling\nthan his stupidity is his willingness to display his stupidity in \nthis newsgroup.", "It is appropriate to add what Himmler said other \"inferior races\" \nand \"human animals\" in his speech at Posen and elsewhere:\n\n\nFrom the speech of Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler, before SS\nMajor-Generals, Posen, October 4 1943\n[\"Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression\", Vol. IV, p. 559]\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\nOne basic principal must be the absolute rule for the SS man: we\nmust be honest, decent, loyal, and comradely to members of our own\nblood and to nobody else. What happens to a Russian, to a Czech,\ndoes not interest me in the slightest. What the nations can offer\nin good blood of our type, we will take, if necessary by kidnapping\ntheir children and raising them with us. Whether nations live in\nprosperity or starve to death interests me only in so far as we\nneed them as slaves for our culture; otherwise, it is of no interest\nto me. Whether 10,000 Russian females fall down from exhaustion\nwhile digging an anti-tank ditch interest me only in so far as\nthe anti-tank ditch for Germany is finished. We shall never be rough\nand heartless when it is not necessary, that is clear. We Germans,\nwho are the only people in the world who have a decent attitude\ntowards animals, will also assume a decent attitude towards these\nhuman animals. But it is a crime against our own blood to worry\nabout them and give them ideals, thus causing our sons and\ngrandsons to have a more difficult time with them. When someone\ncomes to me and says, \"I cannot dig the anti-tank ditch with women\nand children, it is inhuman, for it will kill them\", then I\nwould have to say, \"you are a murderer of your own blood because\nif the anti-tank ditch is not dug, German soldiers will die, and\nthey are the sons of German mothers. They are our own blood\".\n\n\n\nExtract from Himmler's address to party comrades, September 7 1940\n[\"Trials of Wa Criminals\", Vol. IV, p. 1140]\n------------------------------------------------------------------\nIf any Pole has any sexual dealing with a German woman, and by this\nI mean sexual intercourse, then the man will be hanged right in\nfront of his camp. Then the others will not do it. Besides,\nprovisions will be made that a sufficient number of Polish women\nand girls will come along as well so that a necessity of this\nkind is out of the question.\n\nThe women will be brought before the courts without mercy, and\nwhere the facts are not sufficiently proved - such borderline\ncases always happen - they will be sent to a concentration camp.\nThis we must do, unless these one million Poles and those\nhundreds of thousands of workers of alien blood are to inflict\nuntold damage on the German blood. Philosophizing is of no avail\nin this case. It would be better if we did not have them at all -\nwe all know that - but we need them.\n\n", "From: Center for Policy Research \nSubject: Final Solution for Gaza ?\n\n\nFinal Solution for the Gaza ghetto ?\n------------------------------------\n\nWhile Israeli Jews fete the uprising of the Warsaw ghetto, they\nrepress by violent means the uprising of the Gaza ghetto and\nattempt to starve the Gazans.\n\nThe Gaza strip, this tiny area of land with the highest population\ndensity in the world, has been cut off from the world for weeks.\nThe Israeli occupier has decided to punish the whole population of\nGaza, some 700.000 people, by denying them the right to leave the\nstrip and seek work in Israel.\n\nWhile Polish non-Jews risked their lives to save Jews from the\nGhetto, no Israeli Jew is known to have risked his life to help\nthe Gazan resistance. The only help given to Gazans by Israeli\nJews, only dozens of people, is humanitarian assistance.\n\nThe right of the Gazan population to resist occupation is\nrecognized in international law and by any person with a sense of\njustice. A population denied basic human rights is entitled to\nrise up against its tormentors.\n\nAs is known, the Israeli regime is considering Gazans unworthy of\nIsraeli citizenship and equal rights in Israel, although they are\nconsidered worthy to do the dirty work in Israeli hotels, shops\nand fields. Many Gazans are born in towns and villages located in\nIsrael. They may not live there, for these areas are reserved for\nthe Master Race.\n\nThe Nazi regime accorded to the residents of the Warsaw ghetto the\nright to self- administration. They selected Jews to pacify the\noccupied population and preventing any form of resistance. Some\nJewish collaborators were killed. Israel also wishes to rule over\nGaza through Arab collaborators.\n\nAs Israel denies Gazans the only two options which are compatible\nwith basic human rights and international law, that of becoming\nIsraeli citizens with full rights or respecting their right for\nself-determination, it must be concluded that the Israeli Jewish\nsociety does not consider Gazans full human beings. This attitude\nis consistent with the attitude of the Nazis towards Jews. The\ncurrent policies by the Israeli government of cutting off Gaza are\nconsistent with the wish publicly expressed by Prime Mininister\nYitzhak Rabin that 'Gaza sink into the sea'. One is led to ask\noneself whether Israeli leaders entertain still more sinister\ngoals towards the Gazans ? Whether they have some Final Solution\nup their sleeve ?\n\nI urge all those who have slight human compassion to do whatever\nthey can to help the Gazans regain their full human, civil and\npolitical rights, to which they are entitled as human beings.\n\nElias Davidsson Iceland\n\nFrom elias@ismennt.is Fri Apr 23 02:30:21 1993 Received: from\nisgate.is by igc.apc.org (4.1/Revision: 1.77 )\n\tid AA00761; Fri, 23 Apr 93 02:30:13 PDT Received: from\nrvik.ismennt.is by isgate.is (5.65c8/ISnet/14-10-91); Fri, 23 Apr\n1993 09:29:41 GMT Received: by rvik.ismennt.is\n(16.8/ISnet/11-02-92); Fri, 23 Apr 93 09:30:23 GMT From:\nelias@ismennt.is (Elias Davidsson) Message-Id:\n<9304230930.AA11852@rvik.ismennt.is> Subject: no subject (file\ntransmission) To: cpr@igc.org Date: Fri, 23 Apr 93 9:30:22 GMT\nX-Charset: ASCII X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: RO\n\nFinal Solution for the Gaza ghetto ?\n------------------------------------\n\nWhile Israeli Jews fete the uprising of the Warsaw ghetto, they\nrepress by violent means the uprising of the Gaza ghetto and\nattempt to starve the Gazans.\n\nThe Gaza strip, this tiny area of land with the highest population\ndensity in the world, has been cut off from the world for weeks.\nThe Israeli occupier has decided to punish the whole population of\nGaza, some 700.000 people, by denying them the right to leave the\nstrip and seek work in Israel.\n\nWhile Polish non-Jews risked their lives to save Jews from the\nGhetto, no Israeli Jew is known to have risked his life to help\nthe Gazan resistance. The only help given to Gazans by Israeli\nJews, only dozens of people, is humanitarian assistance.\n\nThe right of the Gazan population to resist occupation is\nrecognized in international law and by any person with a sense of\njustice. A population denied basic human rights is entitled to\nrise up against its tormentors.\n\nAs is known, the Israeli regime is considering Gazans unworthy of\nIsraeli citizenship and equal rights in Israel, although they are\nconsidered worthy to do the dirty work in Israeli hotels, shops\nand fields. Many Gazans are born in towns and villages located in\nIsrael. They may not live there, for these areas are reserved for\nthe Master Race.\n\nThe Nazi regime accorded to the residents of the Warsaw ghetto the\nright to self- administration. They selected Jews to pacify the\noccupied population and preventing any form of resistance. Some\nJewish collaborators were killed. Israel also wishes to rule over\nGaza through Arab collaborators.\n\nAs Israel denies Gazans the only two options which are compatible\nwith basic human rights and international law, that of becoming\nIsraeli citizens with full rights or respecting their right for\nself-determination, it must be concluded that the Israeli Jewish\nsociety does not consider Gazans full human beings. This attitude\nis consistent with the attitude of the Nazis towards Jews. The\ncurrent policies by the Israeli government of cutting off Gaza are\nconsistent with the wish publicly expressed by Prime Mininister\nYitzhak Rabin that 'Gaza sink into the sea'. One is led to ask\noneself whether Israeli leaders entertain still more sinister\ngoals towards the Gazans ? Whether they have some Final Solution\nup their sleeve ?\n\nI urge all those who have slight human compassion to do whatever\nthey can to help the Gazans regain their full human, civil and\npolitical rights, to which they are entitled as human beings.", "\n\nOops...small mistake. Thanks for mentioning it. I just read on\nthe.Israel.line that a village just got shelled by terrorists last week \nand some children were killed. I guess the terrorists must have gotten by\nthe security zone. Just think at how much more shelling would be \nhappening if the security zone weren't there.\nL8r...\n\n Steve\n-- ", "\n\nAh - Palestine and the Arab Israeli conflict. Sounds interesting.\n\n\nThis is misleading. I supposed Charles D. Smith characterizes the bombing\nof the King David Hotel as a civilian installation too. Any installation \nattacked by Etzel was linked to some sort of official function of the \nMandatory government.\n\n\nWhat kind of CIVILIANS? I assume Charles D. Smith means completely innocent\npeople who were intentionally targeted, right? Please provide examples.\n\n\nNice strawman. In _The Revolt_ Begin does state that the *myth* of a massacre\nat Deir Yassin may have had the effect of scaring some Arabs into fleeing.\nHowever, nowhere does he claim that this was the result of any specific policy\nof the Etzel. Thus, if it did happen, it was not so intended. I think Arab \ncalls for Palestinians to leave and fear of a war started by Arab hands had \na greater effecton Arab migration than Deir Yassin.\n\nIn fact these jewish TERRORIST groups managed\n\nReally. Nice use of caps. I like it. Very effective. Actually, according to \nmany sources, including American diplomatic officials, the greatest encouragment\nfor Arabs to leave their villages came from Arab leaders.\n\n\n", ": The Swiss population is (and well was) far larger than that. I think\n: your question should be, \"...losing sleep over a million expert\n: riflemen?\" Certainly he could have conquered Switzerland, but\n: a million armed militiamen (especially in a mountainous area, \n: where tanks' effectiveness is limited) would have made it a\n: real pain. The question a conqueror would ask, is \"is it worth \n: the trouble?\" The more difficult an invasion is, the more likely\n: the answer would be \"no.\" Certainly a million riflemen (as\n: opposed to a professional army of only ten or twenty thousand, the\n: best a country the size of Switzerland could support), makes\n: invasions more difficult.\n\n Hitler invaded Yugoslavia and occupied it. The mountainous portions were\nsometimes patrolled by the wermacht, but they were certainly not in control.\nThere were two major native factions opposing each other and the germans,\nIt was basically useless to the germans (no production) and a drain on their\nresources (a armored division and a couple of infantry divisions) Which if\nmy memory is correct, were kind of stuck there up until the allies accepted\ntheir surrender. (I think that the allies also let the germans keep some \nof their weapons for self defense unitil they were able to get to the \nlowlands, away from the resistance factions. This is from memory, and \nit is unreliable. ", "\n[anti-Israel rantings deleted]\n\nAs my father says in Russian, \"pol yevreya, poltara anitsemita\" or roughly\ntranslated \"half a Jew is an anti-semite and a half.\" Now, Mr. Davidsson, \nI know what he means.", "\tDo you have a problem with the language? I said\neveryone suffered emotionally because they sympathyzed with the\nvictims of Holocaust. I wasn't implying that anyone suffered\nmore than the actual victims. Neither was I implying any\nwrongdoing on the part of the Jews as the cause for the\nHolocaust. What is wrong with you guys? Regardless of what one \nsays you keep hearing what you want to hear. \n", "\nTry coming up with your own definition of any or all \"self-hating\" peoples.\nTo me, any who reject their culture to the point where they *only* see the\nabsolute negatives of that culture (generally, or regarding a particular\nevent) and accept *only* those views purely opposing aspects of that culture \n(thus, selective belief in and use of historical facts and a complete ignoring\nof \"context\" results) \"hate\" their culture. That certainly describes Elias, \nsince he has no intention of recognizing that, alongside the Palestinian\nexperience and perspective, there exists also that of Israelis. \nAnd, this is precisely why Israeli society has been tremendously harmed\nby the actions it (its government) has *felt it had to take* in response\nto an \"other\" perceived as a threat. Just as with you, there has long \nbeen a strident and emotional debate about the pain Israelis feel when \nforced to \"balance\" desires for survival and moral beliefs. The trauma\nof having to make that choice is made worse by the fact that neither\ncan be conveniently brushed aside (as a result of a reasoned political\ndebate) for the sake of the other, only reshaped. \n", "From: jbrown@batman.bmd.trw.com\n\nThere are many indications that would have taken place had Saddam\nbeen wanting or planning on going into Saudi Arabia. There were\nnone. This has been openly stated by ex-Pentagon analysts. Pull.\n\nFrom: jbrown@batman.bmd.trw.com\n\nActually, reports from other mid-east countries showed that Hussein\nwas ready to make concessions due to the sanctions. We just didn't want\nhim to - we wanted to crush him, as well as battle-test all these high\ntech toys we've built over the years.\n\nFrom: jbrown@batman.bmd.trw.com\n\nWe're also hypocrites of the first magnitude. Obviously, we don't give\na shit about freedom and democracy. All we care about is our oil. Oh,\nand the excuse, now that the Soviets are gone from the board, to keep\na sizable military presence in the gulf region. Care to make bets about\nwhen ALL our troops will come home?\n\nBasically, Saddam was OK with us. He was a killer, who tortured his\nown people, used gas on them, and other horrors - he was a brutal\ndictator, but he was OUR brutal dictator. Once he said \"fuck you\" to\nthe US, he became the next Hitler. The same for Noriega. He was a\nbastard, but he was OUR bastard...until he changed his mind and went\nhis own way. Then we had to get rid of him.\n\n\n\nDavid Hunt - Graduate Slave | My mind is my own. | Towards both a\nMechanical Engineering | So are my ideas & opinions. | Palestinian and\nCarnegie Mellon University | <<>> | Jewish homeland!\n====T=H=E=R=E===I=S===N=O===G=O=D=========T=H=E=R=E===I=S===N=O===G=O=D=====\nEmail: bluelobster+@cmu.edu Working towards my \"Piled Higher and Deeper\"", "\n\ni would like to remind my jewish colleague mzm that much of the\nstories of the holocaust (including the ones in the u.s. holocaust\nmemorial museum) were *not* eaten up by some of the papers.\n\nwe just have to wait to build muesums for it..\n ", "\n\nNot acceptable. Syria and Lebanon have a right to determine if\nthey wish to return to the situation prior to the French invasion\nwhere they were both part of the same \"mandate territory\" - read\ncolony.\n\nIsrael has no right to determine what happens in Lebanon. Invading another\ncountry because you consider them a threat is precisely the way that almost\nall wars of aggression have started.\n\n\n\nAgain territorial expansion by force.\n\n\n\nThe UN defines them as occupied. They are recognised as such by every\nnation on earth (excluding one small caribean island).\n\n\n\nSo the Adam thinks that peace is possible with continued occupation and \na continued military presence? That is a completely unsustainable situation\nbecause the USA is bankrupt and simply cannot afford to finance the\nIsraeli ecconomy any more. There is no money for such an occupation.\n\n\n\nThey were moved in as part of a deliberate policy to prevent the return\nof the occupied territories. Machiavelli described the reasoning in the\nPrince. The clear intention was to create a constituency which the Likud\nbeleived could not be deprived of the land stolen from the indigenous\npopulation.\n\nThe pretexts under which the settlers aquired land was through the \nredefinition of much land used in common as \"public land\". The assertion\nthat the village common on which the village depends for food belongs to\nan invader simply because no individual has title is clearly an\nexcuse. When the land is used to build a condominium for aliens brought\nin to occupy the land for a foreign power there is a clear breach of the\nGeneva convention which stipulates that land use in occupied territories\nmust not be changed. \n\nNo amount of self justifying on the part of Likud and hard linner appologists\nwill change the fact that the majority of world governments, and all of\nthose that actually have any power have condemned this practice.\n\n\n\nTheyu also are a liability. We are talking about civilian encampments that\nwould last no more than hours against tanks,\n\n\nDon't fool yourself. It was the gulf war that brought the Israelis to the\nnegotiating table. Once their US backers had a secure base in the gulf\nthey insrtructed Shamir to negotiate or else.\n\nIf the creation of settlements had gone on any longer the USA would have\ncut the money supply.\n\n\nNot at all. They can chose to live in an arab state or return to Israel.\n\n\nThe existence of a comunity does not give the right for another country\nto annexe territory, not in Bosnia, not in the West Bank.\n\n\nUnless the new boundaries drawn up are those of 48 there will be no peace.\nAraffat has precious little authority to agree to anything else.\n\n\nThe real issue is not the land treaty but the trade treaty. Since the\nPalestinians will remain heavily dependent on Israel indefinitely it\nis this that will be the guarantor of peace. another factor will be the\nreturn of lands confiscated by the Israeli state within Israel and the\ndismantling of the shadow structures which allow discrimination against\nnon-Jews within what is nominaly a secular state. \n\nThe irony is that in return for a guarantee that the palestinian state has\na non descrimination law in order to protect the remaining settlers the\nIsraeli state is going to be forced inot the same position. This will mean\noutlawing of discrimination such as that which prevents arabs from buying\nor using much of the land. \n\n", "\n\n\n\n\tQuite a few people couldn't have cared less about what\nhappened to the Jews of Europe. If they had cared, they would have\ndone something.\n\n\n\tMaybe its because many of us, who have been on usenet for\nseveral years remember tripe like this being posted:\n\n-------------\n\n\n\tThis was posted fairly recently. There has been much more\nracist stuff in the past. Why are we expected to listen to it and\nremain \"calm?\" I don't think that listening to racist or anti-semetic\nslurs is an incitement to calm debate.\n\n\tPerhaps you don't mean to be coming off as highly offensive.\nHowever, the way you have posted seems to be typical of those who have\nan irrational dislike for Israel and Jews. Perhaps if you took a\nclose look at what you've posted thought a bit about the combatative\ntone you've used, you would see why people are reacting the way they\nare. \n\nAdam Shostack \t\t\t\t adam@das.harvard.edu", "Dave Kingman is Jewish", "Israel - Happy 45th Birthday!\n\n", "\n\n\nYou somehow missed Nabil's comments, even though you included it in\nyour followup: \n\n >The number which could have arrived to the Holy Lands must have been\n >substantially less ude to the harsh desert and the killings between the\n >Jewish tribes on the way..\n\nI am not aware of \"killings between Jewish tribes\" in the desert.\n\nThe point of \"typical thinking\" here is that while Arabs STILL TODAY\nact in the manner you describe, like \"any nomadic people occupying a \nland\", killing and plundering each other with regularity, others have\nsomehow progressed over time. It is not surprising then that Arabs\noften accuse others (infidels) of things that they are quite familiar\nwith: civil rights violations, religious discrimination, ethnic\ncleansing, land theft, torture and murder. It is precisely this \nmechanism at work that leads people to say that Jewish tribes were\nkilling each other in the desert, even without support for such a\nludicrous suggestion.\n", "\n\n\tWrong. Zionism *acknowledges* the fact that anti-Semites\nexist, and prevent Jews from living in peace. That does not mean we\nagree that Jews are all greedy, that Jews kill Christian Children,\ncommited deicide, or anything else. We acknowledge that there are\nmorons out there who do believe these things.\n\nAdam\n\n\n\nAdam Shostack \t\t\t\t adam@das.harvard.edu", "From: Center for Policy Research \nSubject: Assistance to Palest.people\n\n\nU.N. General Assembly Resolution 46/201 of 20 December 1991\n\nASSISTANCE TO THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE\n---------------------------------------------\nThe General Assembly\n\nRecalling its resolution 45/183 of 21 December 1990\n\nTaking into account the intifadah of the Palestinian people in the\noccupied Palestinian territory against the Israeli occupation,\nincluding Israeli economic and social policies and practices,\n\nRejecting Israeli restrictions on external economic and social\nassistance to the Palestinian people in the occupied Palestinian\nterritory,\n\nConcerned about the economic losses of the Palestinian people as a\nresult of the Gulf crisis,\n\nAware of the increasing need to provide economic and social\nassistance to the Palestinian people,\n\nAffirming that the Palestinian people cannot develop their\nnational economy as long as the Israeli occupation persists,\n\n1. Takes note of the report of the Secretary-General on assistance\nto the Palestinian people;\n\n2. Expresses its appreciation to the States, United Nations bodies\nand intergovernmental and non-governmental organizations that have\nprovided assistance to the Palestinian people,\n\n3. Requests the international community, the United Nations system\nand intergovernmental and non-governmental organizations to\nsustain and increase their assistance to the Palestinian people,\nin close cooperation with the Palestine Liberation Organization\n(PLO), taking in account the economic losses of the Palestinian\npeople as a result of the Gulf crisis;\n\n4. Calls for treatment on a transit basis of Palestinian exports\nand imports passing through neighbouring ports and points of exit\nand entry;\n\n5. Also calls for the granting of trade concessions and concrete\npreferential measures for Palestinian exports on the basis of\nPalestinian certificates of origin;\n\n6. Further calls for the immediate lifting of Israeli restrictions\nand obstacles hindering the implementation of assistance projects\nby the United Nations Development Programme, other United Nations\nbodies and others providing economic and social assistance to the\nPalestinian people in the occupied Palestinian territory;\n\n7. Reiterates its call for the implementation of development\nprojects in the occupied Palestinian territory, including the\nprojects mentioned in its resolution 39/223 of 18 December 1984;\n\n8. Calls for facilitation of the establishment of Palestinian\ndevelopment banks in the occupied Palestinian territory, with a\nview to promoting investment, production, employment and income\ntherein;\n\n9. Requests the Secretary-General to report to the General\nThe General Assembly at its 47th session, through the Economic and Social\nCouncil, on the progress made in the implementation of the present\nresolution.\n-----------------------------------------------", "the 'Center for Policy Research' writes...\n \n\n Considering all the murders of innocent Israelis at the hands \n of Arab death merchants, I see nothing wrong with the advice.\n\n\n As usual, the bias of the 'Center for Policy Research' echoes\n through this newsgroup. Here we have an enraged Likudnik who\n is venting his spleen, and you portray it as if this is going\n to become policy. You don't say what the response to Matza's\n suggestion was. Do do not mention whether he was refering to\n terrorists caught in the act, which could be a clear cut case\n of self-defence. Would you care to elaborate on this, or was\n this all you wanted to say on the matter. Why don't you give\n up this 'Center for Policy Research' crap, and just post your \n biases without trying to legitimize them with a pompous name?\n\n\n A laudable precaution. \n \n Every single thing you post about Israel is posted to portray\n Israel as negatively as you can. Deliberate omissions are an\n integral part of the shtick. And it's not only the incidents\n that you do not mention, but even the stories you do post are\n fraught with omissions, which change the entire meaning. The\n absurdity of your respectable name cannot hide your bias.\n\n In your effort to portray Israel in an unfavorable light, you \n have accomplished nothing, except to prove that a respectable \n sounding label like the Center for Policy Research is nothing \n but a smoke screen for someone with a heavily biased attitude \n against Israel and the need to vent it. ", "\n\n You really belong to the 25-30% of ignorants in USA who don't know what\n the Holocaust (\"Shoa\" should be the real word) was. First you write in \n\n Message-ID: <1993Apr24.203620.6531@Virginia.EDU>\n Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1993 20:36:20 GMT\n\n ^^^^^^^ \n\n and later, as somebody informed you about your gross mistake, you\n write in \n \n Message-ID: <1993Apr25.181351.1373@Virginia.EDU>\n Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1993 18:13:51 GMT\n\n ^^^^^^^^\n\n instead of Joseph GOEBBELS. And you dare to say that you\n \"know more about Nazi Germany than most people (maybe including \"us\")\" ? \n I'm sure you learned the history of Nazi Germany AND Austria from\n your family. \n \n \n Trying to make comparisons between Israels politics and Nazi German-\n Austrian politics shows only your degree of ignorance (high), intellect\n (low), humanity (none) and antisemitism (average). I respect anybody\n who dissagrees with me as long as he respects me and discusses in a\n civilized manner. I would never say that anybody that critizises Israel\n and/or its politics is an antisemite, except he uses antisemitic\n vocabulary/terminology/demagogy. Israel is not a perfect country and\n its politicians also commits errors, even some of them are corrupt\n (like politicians in any other country), but they carry a huge burden:\n to care for the safety of ALL its citizens, and that is really not an\n easy task in a country that is surrounded by enemies who only expect\n that Israel commits the ONE BIG ERROR and wipe the country (and its\n Jewish citizens plus the so-called collaborators, arabs that wanted to\n live in peace with their Jewish neighbours) of the map. As I said,\n Israel is not a perfect country, but it is the ONLY democracy in the\n whole Middle-East and the only country in the world where Jews from\n everywhere can have a refuge in case of persecutions in the countries\n they are living.\n Our long history has taught us that we cannot rely on non-Jewish\n nations and its governments: as soon as there are more or les big\n social-economical-political problems in any country, the first ones\n that pay for the broken glasses are the Jews, and later the other\n minorities of the country.\n \n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ \n\n This is really outrageous: 6.000.000 murdered Jews, besides the\n thousands who survived the Shoa in some way or another, and the rest\n of the living ones mourning for all of them ! I don't know what you\n call a \"Civil Libertarian\" (never heard about them) but I know only\n one thing: if all of them think like you do it, then \"Civil Libertarians\"\n is a new denomination for Antisemites. May other Civil Libertarians come\n to word to this group so that we can learn if A.Beyer and me are right\n (that Civil Libertarians are Antisemites), or that I'm wrong and he is\n missusing that word.\n BTW, I couldn't care less for what Andi Beyer appreciates. \n \n -----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n Manfredo Tichauer M. EMAIL : tichauer@valpso.hanse.de\n Opitzstrasse 14 VOICE : (++ 49 40) 27.42.27\n 2000 Hamburg 60 - GERMANY FAX : (++ 49 40) 270.53.09", "From: Center for Policy Research \nSubject: From Israeli press. Madness.\n\n/* Written 4:34 pm Apr 16, 1993 by cpr@igc.apc.org in igc:mideast.forum */\n/* ---------- \"From Israeli press. Madness.\" ---------- */\nFROM THE ISRAELI PRESS.\n\nPaper: Zman Tel Aviv (Tel Aviv's time). Friday local Tel Aviv's\npaper, affiliated with Maariv.\n\nDate: 19 February 1993\n\nJournalist: Guy Ehrlich\n\nSubject: Interview with soldiers who served in the Duvdevan\n(Cherry) units, which disguise themselves as Arabs and operate\nwithin the occupied territories.\n\nExcerpts from the article:\n\n\"A lot has been written about the units who disguise themselves as\nArabs, things good and bad, some of the falsehoods. But the most\nimportant problem of those units has been hardly dealt with. It is\nthat everyone who serves in the Cherry, after a time goes in one\nway or another insane\".\n\nA man who said this, who will here be called Danny (his full name\nis known to the editors) served in the Cherry. After his discharge\nfrom the army he works as delivery boy. His pal, who will here be\ncalled Dudu was also serving in the Cherry, and is now about to\ndepart for a round-the-world tour. They both look no different\nfrom average Israeli youngsters freshly discharged from conscript\nservice. But in their souls, one can notice something completely\ndifferent....It was not easy for them to come out with disclosures\nabout what happened to them. And they think that to most of their\nfellows from the Cherry it woundn't be easy either. Yet after they\nbegan to talk, it was nearly impossible to make them stop talking.\nThe following article will contain all the horror stories\nrecounted with an appalling openness.\n\n(...) A short time ago I was in command of a veteran team, in\nwhich some of the fellows applied for release from the Cherry. We\ncalled such soldiers H.I. 'Hit by the Intifada'. Under my command\nwas a soldier who talked to himself non-stop, which is a common\nphenomenon in the Cherry. I sent him to a psychiatrist. But why I\nshould talk about others when I myself feel quite insane ? On\nFridays, when I come home, my parents know I cannot be talked to\nuntil I go to the beach, surf a little, calm down and return. The\nkeys of my father's car must be ready for in advance, so that I\ncan go there. I they dare talk to me before, or whenever I don't\nwant them to talk to me, I just grab a chair and smash it\ninstantly. I know it is my nerve: Smashing chairs all the time\nand then running away from home, to the car and to the beach. Only\nthere I become normal.(...)\n\n(...) Another friday I was eating a lunch prepared by my mother.\nIt was an omelette of sorts. She took the risk of sitting next to\nme and talking to me. I then told my mother about an event which\nwas still fresh in my mind. I told her how I shot an Arab, and how\nexactly his wound looked like when I went to inspect it. She began\nto laugh hysterically. I wanted her to cry, and she dared laugh\nstraight in my face instead ! So I told her how my pal had made a\nmincemeat of the two Arabs who were preparing the Molotov\ncocktails. He shot them down, hitting them beautifully, exactly as\nthey deserved. One bullet had set a Molotov cocktail on fire, with\nthe effect that the Arab was burning all over, just beautifully. I\nwas delighted to see it. My pal fired three bullets, two at the\nArab with the Molotov cocktail, and the third at his chum. It hit\nhim straight in his ass. We both felt that we'd pulled off\nsomething.\n\nNext I told my mother how another pal of mine split open the guts\nin the belly of another Arab and how all of us ran toward that\nspot to take a look. I reached the spot first. And then that Arab,\nblood gushing forth from his body, spits at me. I yelled: 'Shut\nup' and he dared talk back to me in Hebrew! So I just laughed\nstraight in his face. I am usually laughing when I stare at\nsomething convulsing right before my eyes. Then I told him: 'All\nright, wait a moment'. I left him in order to take a look at\nanother wounded Arab. I asked a soldier if that Arab could be\nsaved, if the bleeding from his artery could be stopped with the\nhelp of a stone of something else like that. I keep telling all\nthis to my mother, with details, and she keeps laughing straight\ninto my face. This infuriated me. I got very angry, because I felt\nI was becoming mad. So I stopped eating, seized the plate with he\nomelette and some trimmings still on, and at once threw it over\nher head. Only then she stopped laughing. At first she didn't know\nwhat to say.\n\n(...) But I must tell you of a still other madness which falls\nupon us frequently. I went with a friend to practice shooting on a\nfield. A gull appeared right in the middle of the field. My friend\nshot it at once. Then we noticed four deer standing high up on the\nhill above us. My friend at once aimed at one of them and shot it.\nWe enjoyed the sight of it falling down the rock. We shot down two\ndeer more and went to take a look. When we climbed the rocks we\nsaw a young deer, badly wounded by our bullet, but still trying to\nsuch some milk from its already dead mother. We carefully\ninspected two paths, covered by blood and chunks of torn flesh of\nthe two deer we had hit. We were just delighted by that sight. We\nhad hit'em so good ! Then we decided to kill the young deer too,\nso as spare it further suffering. I approached, took out my\nrevolver and shot him in the head several times from a very short\ndistance. When you shoot straight at the head you actually see the\nbullets sinking in. But my fifth bullet made its brains fall\noutside onto the ground, with the effect of splattering lots of\nblood straight on us. This made us feel cured of the spurt of our\nmadness. Standing there soaked with blood, we felt we were like\nbeasts of prey. We couldn't explain what had happened to us. We\nwere almost in tears while walking down from that hill, and we\nfelt the whole day very badly.\n\n(...) We always go back to places we carried out assignments in.\nThis is why we can see them. When you see a guy you disabled, may\nbe for the rest of his life, you feel you got power. You feel\nGodlike of sorts.\"\n\n(...) Both Danny and Dudu contemplate at least at this moment\nstudying the acting. Dudu is not willing to work in any\nsecurity-linked occupation. Danny feels the exact opposite. 'Why\nshouldn't I take advantage of the skills I have mastered so well ?\nWhy shouldn't I earn $3.000 for each chopped head I would deliver\nwhile being a mercenary in South Africa ? This kind of job suits\nme perfectly. I have no human emotions any more. If I get a\nreasonable salary I will have no problem to board a plane to\nBosnia in order to fight there.\"", "Excerpts from netnews.talk.politics.mideast: 16-May-93 Re: Saudi\nclergy condemns d.. Robertc. Moldenhauer@par (2149) \n\n The whole \"saddam is going to invade Saudi Arabia\" was nothing but US State \n Department propeganda. Saddam (and Iraq in general) never recognised the \n British created Kuwait. \n\nThis is complete garbage. It is Kuwait FAQ number 1 (maintained, but\nnot compiled, by me to rebut the leftist drivel frequently posted wrt\nKuwait): \n\n------------------------------------------------------------ \n\nFirst is a note on the bogus arguments that the British \ndrew the maps to deprive Iraq of Oil. Then follows a \nchronology of events in Kuwait's history. Following \nthe chronology is a speech by the Kuwaiti ambassador \nto the U.N.. Following this is an article on the origins \nof Kuwait. Following this is a series of articles \nwhich attest to the fact that Kuwait was independent of both \n(non-existent) Iraq and the Ottoman Empire. \n\n--- \n\nThe Iraqi regime claims that Kuwait was cut from Iraq by the British \nin order to deprive Iraq of its oil. The 1913 and 1932 border treaties \nbetween Kuwait and Iraq represent clear testimonies against such an \nallegation since oil was discovered in Kuwait in 1938! \n\n--- \n\nKuwait: A Chronology \n\n[BC 600] The Hellens settled in Al-Khazna Hill area on Failaka \nIsland. \n\n[529] Al-Monzer Bin-Ma'a Al-Sama'a defeated Al-Hareth Al-Kindi in \nthe Kuwaiti area of Wara. \n\n[300] The Greeks lived on Failaka Island for two centuries. \n\n[73] A royal message was inscribed on the Ikarus stone which is \nnow on view in the National Museum of Kuwait. \n\n[AD 623] The Arabs defeated the Persians at the battle of Zat \nAl-Salassel in the Kazima area. \n\n[1672] The approximate date of the establishment of Kuwait town \nwhen Barrak was the Amir of the Beni Khaled tribe. \n\n[1711] Approximately when the Al-Sabah family arrived in Kuwait. \n\n[1752] The approximate date of the election of Sabah Bin Jaber \nfrom the Al-Sabah family to be the first ruler of Kuwait. \n\n[1760] The first wall, 750 meters long, was built around Kuwait \nCity. \n\n[1762] Abdulla Bin Sabah, the second ruler of Kuwait, came to \npower. \n\n[1765] C. Niebuhr, the Danish traveler, visited Kuwait which he \nreferred to on his map as ``Grane.'' \n\n[1773] Kuwait was attacked by an epidemic and most of its \ninhabitants died. \n\n[1783] The Kuwaitis defeated the tribe of Bani K'ab in the sea \nbattle of Riqqa. \n\n[1811] The second wall of Kuwait, 2300 meters long, was built. \n\n[1871] The Al-Taba'ah accident, in which many Kuwaiti diving \nships were sunk, was caused by a massive tidal wave between India and \nMuscat. \n\n[1886] The first Kuwaiti currency was minted in copper during the \nreign of Sheikh Abdulla Al-Sabah II. \n\n[1899] Kuwait signs a treaty with Britain and becomes a protectorate. \n(see note below) \n\n[1911] December 22. Al-Mubarakiya School, the first formal \nschool in Kuwait, opened. \n\n[1920] The third wall of Kuwait, 6400 meters long, was built. \n\n[1921] Kuwait took the first step toward democracy, the formation \nof a consultative council, but did not last for long. \n\n[1922] The total number of Kuwaiti pearl diving boats reached \n800, manned by over 10,000 sailors and divers. \n\n[1922] The first public library in Kuwait was established. \n\n[1926] The historian Abdul Aziz Al-Rasheed published the first \nbook on Kuwait. \n\n[1928] Kuwait's first periodical, the ``Kuwaiti Magazine,'' was \npublished by Abdul Aziz Al-Rasheed. \n\n[1930] Kuwait Municipality was established. \n\n[1930] An Amiri Decree was issued prohibiting the wearing of the \nBisht because of soaring prices. \n\n[1933] The Municipality installed lighting in the Kuwait market. \n\n[1934] December 7. Heavy rainfall destroyed many Kuwaiti houses. \nTherefore this year was called ``The destructive Year,'' ``Al-Sannah \nAl-Hadamah.'' \n\n\n[1938] February. Oil was discovered in Burgan oilfield. \n\n[1938] The first general elections, resulted in the first \nLegislative Council. \n\n[1942] The first bank in Kuwait was opened. \n\n[1945] ``Kuwait House'' was established in Egypt to look after \nKuwaiti missions and interests. \n\n[1946] The first Kuwaiti crude oil shipment was exported. \n\n[1948] ``Kazima Magazine'' was issued, the first Kuwaiti magazine \nto be both printed and published in Kuwait. \n\n[1950] Sheikh Ahmed Al-Jaber Al-Sabah, who had ruled Kuwait for \nthirty years, died. \n\n[1951] May 12. Kuwait Radio went on the air for the first time. \n\n[1952] The first ``Kuwait Masterplan'' was drawn up. \n\n[1954] Khalid Al-Faraj, the man of letters and poet, died. \n\n[1954] December, 11. ``Kuwait Al-Youm'' (Official Gazette) was \nissued for the first time. \n\n[1955] Oil was struck in Al-Rawdhatain, north of Kuwait. \n\n[1957] Kuwait wall was demolished and removed. \n\n[1957] The ``Social Affairs Department'' conducted the first \npopulation census. \n\n[1958] December 1. The first issue of ``Al-Arabi'' magazine was \npublished. \n\n[1960] The first Kuwaiti woman was employed by Kuwait Oil \nCompany. \n\n[1961] April 1. The Kuwaiti Dinar became the official currency \nin Kuwait. \n\n[1961] June 19. The agrrement of January 23, 1899, concluded \nbetween Kuwait and Great Britain, was terminated. \n\n[1961] July 20. Kuwait became a member of the Arab League. \n\n[1961] December, 31. Kuwait Fund for Arab Economic Development \nwas established. \n\n[1962] January 20. The elected constituent assembly met to draw \nup the Constitution of Kuwait. \n\n[1962] An Amiri Decree was issued providing for the division of \nthe country into three governorates. \n\n[1962] November 11. The Amir of Kuwait, Sheikh Abdulla Al-Salem \nAl-Sabah ratified the first Constitution of Kuwait. \n\n[1963] January. The first elected National Assembly of Kuwait \nconvened. \n\n[1963] May 17. Kuwait became a member of the United Nations \nOrganization. \n\n[1963] August 7. The great Kuwaiti poet Saqr Al-Shebaib died. \n\n[1965] November 24. The Amir of Kuwait, Sheikh Abdulla Al-Salem \nAl-Sabah, passed away. \n\n[1966] The Neutral Zone was partitioned between Kuwait and Saudi \nArabia. \n\n[1966] November 27. Kuwait University was inaugurated. \n\n[1968] May 13. Kuwait freed itself from all external obligations \nwhen it canceled the agreement of June 19, 1961. \n\n[1969] April 1. Central Bank of Kuwait was established. \n\n[1969] October 18. The first communications satellite earth \nstation in Kuwait was inaugurated. \n\n[1973] July 6. The Kuwaiti pioneer and reformer Sheikh Yousef Bin \nEisa Al-Qina'ai died. \n\n[1975] March. The government acquired full ownership of Kuwait \nOil Company. \n\n[1976] The Social Security Law, applicable to Kuwaiti nationals, \nwas issued. \n\n[1976] The Future Generations Reserves Law was issued. It \nstipulates the allocation of 10\\% per annum of the State revenues for \nfuture generations. \n\n[1977] December 31. The Amir of Kuwait Sheikh Sabah Al-Salem \nAl-Sabah died. \n\n[1981] May 25. Kuwait signed the Articles of Association of the \nGulf Cooperation Council. \n\n[1983] The Bubiyan Bridge, linking Bubiyan Island to the \nmainland, was opened for traffic. \n\n[1985] May 25. The Amir survived an attempt \non his life when a bomb-laden car rammed into his motorcade on Arabian \nGulf Street. \n\n\n\n---From Kuwait, Facts and Figures, 1986. \n\nShedding Some Light \n\nOn September 29 1990, the National Council on US-Arab Relations \ninvited the Kuwaiti Ambassador to the United States, Saud Nasser \nAl-Sabah. The following are quotes of his speech: \n\n``Kuwait itself was an entity identified as Kuwait even before \nIraq was identified as Iraq in the Ottoman Empire. Kuwait was in \nexistence since 1752. We continued to be in existence until the \nconflict between the Ottoman Empire and the British and others in the \narea. Thereafter, we signed with the British in 1899 a protective \nagreement whereby the British guaranteed the sovereignty and security \nof Kuwait.'' \n\n``In 1913, the British and the Ottoman signed an agreement defining \nwithout any doubt the borders of Kuwait as they stand today. Such an \nagreement was reconfirmed in 1932 between the Kuwaiti government \nand the Iraqi government at that time. That is when Iraq became a state, \nafter Kuwait itself.'' \n\n``In 1961, when we declared our independence Iraq seized the \nopportunity to claim Kuwait as part of Iraq. There were threats. The \nBritish came in, and Arab forces came in to guarantee the sovereignty \nand territorial integrity of Kuwait. In 1963, Kuwait and Iraq again \nsigned border agreement, thereby defining our territory and Iraq's \nrecognition to the sovereignty and territory of Kuwait.'' \n\n---Compiled by Firyal Alshalalbi \n\n\nOrigins of Kuwait \n\nThe establishment of Kuwait is attributed to Barrak b. Ghurair of the \nBani Khalid who used Kuwait as a summer residence. The beginning of \nKuwait goes back to the late 17th century and some historians go \nfurther up to 1611. Kuwait's name is derived from al-Kut which means \nfortress. Kuwait is also called Qurain, which is the diminutive of qarn, a \nhorn or hill. Kuwait town flourished and grew since its \nestablishment. \n\nThe 'Utub, al-Sabah family is a branch of 'Utub, settled in Kuwait \nduring the early 18th century. They lived under the protection \nof Bani Khalid until 1752. After that, they became independent and \nSabah Bin Jabir was chosen as the first ruler for 'Utub. \n\nCarsten Niebuhr (1733-1815) a Dutch explorer was among the first who \nwrote about the Arabia. He was the mathematician in the scientific \nexpedition sent in 1760 by the King of Denmark to Arabia. He \ndocumented details of Arab tribes inhabiting both coasts of the Gulf \nand in the case of Kuwait, he was the first writer to give the two \nnames by which the town was known, Kuwait and Qurain. Niebuhr's chart \nof the Persian Gulf was the best one drawn before the end of that \ncentury, see the map from Abu Hakima, History of Eastern Arabia \n1750-1800. pub.1965. \n\nAl-Sabah ('Utub) kept good relations with other powers in the eastern \nArabia. According to Ahmed Abu Hakima's conclusions in his well \ndocumented study about the history of eastern Arabia between 1750-1800, \nthere was no Ottoman rule on the region. ``In the second half of \nthe 18th century, there was no Ottoman ruler in Eastern Arabia. \nIn fact, Ottoman rule was not even nominally acknowledged. Their \nattempts to restore their lost position in al-Hasa through the \ncampaign of Thuwayni in 1786, and Ali Pasha's expedition against the \nWahhabis in 1798, were unsuccessful. At Kuwait, the nearest point of \nthe Utbi domains to the Ottoman Mutasallimiyya of Basra, the Shaikh \nwas under no form of Ottoman control. The aim of 'Utbi external policy \nwas to keep on friendly relations with all the forces working in the \nGulf.'' (p. 182-183) Abu Hakima continued in his conclusions that ``Kuwait \nwas not a dependency of Basra, the Persian occupation of Basra \n(1775-79) did not affect Kuwait.'' (p.183) \n\nKuwait had its own identity through the Ottoman domination on the Arab \nworld. This identity was clear to the British and the French who \ntried to win the support of Kuwait's Sheikh between 1793-95 when the \nBritish wanted his support in their conflict with the French in the \nGulf area. \n\n--- \n\nIndependent Kuwait \n\nThis is the first of a series of articles that testify to the \nindependence of Kuwait throughout its history from both Iraq and the \nOttomans. \n\nThe following text is related to an expedition carried out by the \nOttomans in 1871 against the Wahhabis in Eastern Arabia (where the oil fields \nin Saudi Arabia now). Kuwait and its ruler at that time, Sheikh \nAbdulla Ibn Sabah Ibn Jabir, allied themselves with the Turks:} \n\nAbdullah' role in the fighting was not a minor one. He joined the \nexpedition as a commander of the large Kuwaiti fleet and was the first \nto use its guns against the besieged town of Al-Qatif. Had it not been \nfor this bombardment by the Kuwaiti fleet, Al-Qatif obviously would \nnot have surrendered in a mere three hours. \n\nIn relation to this, a question arises as to why the Ottoman warships \nrefrained from participating in the bombardment. The answer lies in \nreports relating to the political movements that preceded accounts of \nthe progress of the expedition. Because the Ottomans were unwilling to \njeopardize the maritime peace imposed by Britain in the area, the \nSultan and the Pasha promised their warships would not be used in the \nwar against Su'ud or any Sheikh in the war zone. Kuwait, which was not \na party to the above-mentioned treaty of 1861, was under no such \nobligation especially since the expedition was not directed against \nthose who had signed it. \n\n\n[ From the above text, we can see that Kuwait was not part of the \nOttomans or the British colonies. For more details about the mentioned \nexpedition, please check out the source of the above text: \n\nThe Modern History of Kuwait, 1750--1965, by Ahmed Abu-Hakima, McGill \nUniversity, Canada ] \n\n--- \n\nIndependent Kuwait--2 \n\nThis is another article of a series of articles that testify to the \nindependence of Kuwait throughout its history from both Iraq and the \nOttomans. \n\nThe following text discusses a dispute on an estate called Sufiyya in Zubair, \nIraq, between the Sheikh of Kuwait and Al-Zuhair tribe in Zubair. \n\nIn 1866, trouble developed over the possession by Sheikh Sabah of the \nestate which was [purchased] by his father, Sheikh Jabir, in 1836. This \nproperty was sequestered by a Turkish Qa'immaqam [representative] on \nthe basis of a claim by the Al-Zuhair that the vendor had been the \nowner of a share and not of the n 100e Sufiyya. At the same time, \nSheikh Sabah was required to expel from other lands owned by him at \nthe island of Fao some cultivators who had immigrated from Persian \nterritory. \n\nIt should be recalled that the Turkish officials from the start \nshowed strong prejudice in favor of the Zuhair claimants. Abdulla Ibn \nSabah, the eldest son of the ruler of Kuwait who went to Basra as his \nfather's agent in the case, narrowly escaped being thrown into jail \nupon his refusal to make a payment amounting to the value of seven \nyears produce which the Ottoman authorities deemed the plaintiffs were \nentitled to receive. \n\nEventually, the dispute was settled by the Wali [Governor] of Baghdad \nin favor of the Sheikh of Kuwait. The decision of the Governor of \nBasra in favor of the Sheikh was apparently made for various reasons. \nSome writers think that the Governor wanted to win Abdulla over to the \nTurkish side, and suggest that the Governor, Namiq Pasha, even offered \nhim the title of Qa'immaqam, which he declined. Nevertheless, the \nproceedings of the Turks in this case were regarded by the inhabitants \nof Kuwait as attempts to cause a confrontation with Zubair. It seems \nthat they had anticipated a conflict and according to reports by the \nBritish Agent at Basra, the people of Kuwait were prepared to a man to \nabandon their town rather than submit to Turkish rule. Lorimer suggests \nthat the final order of Namiq Pasha, upholding the Kuwait Sheikh's \ntitle to Sufiyya, was perhaps due to a report that Sheikh Sabah, \n``with the object of attacking Zubair if the decision should go \nagainst him, had obtained a promise of countenance and armed support \nfrom the Wahhabi Amir.'' \n\nIn addition to this legal matter with Zubair, Kuwait had had other \nproblems with Basra whose courts tried to jail Abdulla Ibn Sabah, as \nexplained above. However, Kuwait's relations with the Ottoman \nmutasallims of Basra had at times been amicable and in several \ninstances, those mutasallims even sought refuge at Kuwait when \npressured by the Pashas of Baghdad who exercised control over them. \n\n[ Source: The Modern History of Kuwait, 1750--1965, by Ahmed Abu-Hakima, \nMcGill University, Canada ] \n\n--- \n\nIndependent Kuwait--3 \n\nThis is another article that testifies to the \nindependence of Kuwait throughout its history from both Iraq and the \nOttomans. \n\n\nWhen Pelly [Colonel Pelly, the British Resident in the Gulf] visited Kuwait \nfor the first time on March 3, 1863, he was \nmet at Jahra by Sheikh Mubarak, the second son of the ruler, Sheikh \nSabah. Just before he reached Kuwait town on March 4, he was met by \nSheikh Abdulla, the eldest son and heir apparent, who accompanied him \nto the town gate on their way to ``a very good home,'' which had been \nprepared for Pelly and his companions. ``Scarcely had we entered it,'' \nsays Pelly, ``when Sheikh Sabah himself came.'' \nThis description of Pelly's reception indicates that to a certain \ndegree it was run according to protocol. \n\nThe government system of Kuwait and administration of justice were the \nsubject of comments made by Pelly. ``The Government is patriarchal,'' \nsays Pelly, ``the Sheikh managing the political, and the Cazee [Qadi] \nthe judicial departments. The Sheikh himself would submit to the \nCazee's decision.'' Punishment was rarely inflicted. ``Indeed, there \nseems little government interference anywhere, and little need of an \narmy.'' Pelly in admiration of how the Sheikh ran the affairs of the \ncountry, retold the following remark which the Sheikh had made to him: \n\nWhen my father was nearly 120 years old, he called me and said, ``I \nshall soon die. I have made no fortune, and can leave you no money, \nbut I have made many and true friends, grapple them. While other \nstates around the Gulf have fallen off from injustice or \nill-government, mine has gone on [flourishing]. Hold to my policy, and \nthough you are surrounded by desert, and pressed by a once hostile \nand still wandering set of tribes, you will prosper.'' \n\n[ Source: The Modern History of Kuwait, 1750--1965, by Ahmed Abu-Hakima, \nMcGill University, Canada ] \n\n--- \n\nIndependent Kuwait--4 \n\nThis is another article that testifies to the \nindependence of Kuwait throughout its history from both Iraq and the \nOttomans. \n\n\nThe British had always regarded Sheikh Jabir as a ``good friend,'' but \nin October 1839, an event took place at Kuwait which could have \nweakened those good relations. On October 30, Lieutenant Edmunds, the \nAssistant Resident at Abu Shahr [in Iran], arrived in Kuwait on a \nspecial mission from the Resident, Captain Hennell. His mission was to \nfind out if Kuwait was willing to welcome the establishment of a \nBritish line of post across the desert from Kuwait to the \nMediterranean. The British war vessel fired the usual salute in honor \nof the Sheikh after it had anchored in the waters of Kuwait Bay. The \nsalute was not acknowledged and Edmunds waited in the vessel for three \ndays before he was able to communicate with the Sheikh. \n\nAfter Edmunds' return to Abu Shahr, both he and Captain Hennell \nexplained this unusual behavior of the Sheikh, to have been due not \nto ill-will, but principally to a desire to mislead the Egyptian agent \nat Kuwait as to the nature of his relations with the British. \nTherefore, they considered that Jabir's conduct did not indicate any \nchange in his friendly policies towards the British. \n\nIf the British tolerated the attitude of Jabir towards Edmunds, so \nalso did the Egyptians. Earlier in the same year, some of the most \nwanted men in the Wahhabi camp, such as 'Umar Ibn 'Ufaisan, the \nWahhabi general in Al-Hasa, and Wahhabi tribes like Al-Duwaish, \nsought refuge in Kuwait. \n\nProtection of refugees seeking political \nasylum in his country was a policy that had been adopted earlier by \nSheikh Abdulla Ibn Sabah. This can, therefore, be looked upon as an \nindication of self-confidence; an outcome of Kuwait's independence \nfrom foreign powers. It corroborates the fact that Kuwait, if \nnecessary, was prepared to defend itself against more powerful \nneighbors. \n\nThis defense depended not only on the walls of the city, but also on \nbedouin tribes in its neighborhood and a merchant fleet equipped with \nthe necessary guns comparable to other Arab fleets of the time. \n\nAs to Kuwait's position between 1815 and 1839, one can safely state \nthat it managed to maintain a neutral policy with regard to the \nstruggling Wahhabis and Egyptians. Relations with the British and \neven with the Pasha of Baghdad continued on good terms. \n\n[ Source: The Modern History of Kuwait, 1750--1965, by Ahmed Abu-Hakima, \nMcGill University, Canada ] \n\n--- \n\n\n\n\n\n\n They were trying to recover land they believed \n was theirs, much like the Argentines in the Faulklands. The Kuwaitis pushed \n just a little too far by taking Iraqi oil and Saddam thought he'd settle \n the dispute the old fashioned way... \n\nAre you really this cartoonish? Or do you seriously believe this? If\nso, please post your proof. \n\n Everybody would have been much better off had they left the reunited Iraq \n together and concentrated on taking out Saddam. A strong, united Iraq with \n an elected government would have gone a long way to ridding the world of \n the feudal dictatorships in the Gulf. ", "\n...\n\n Sounds just like a racial theory that Hitler outlined in Mein Kampf.\n\n\n\n-- \n------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDisclaimer: Opinions expressed are mine, not my employer's.", "So, Mr. Salah is still claiming Stalin was a Jew? \n\nThis thread began on SCA, when he and another guy claimed both Stalin\nand Lenin were Jews. When I posted evidence from books and the Britannica\nshowing they were Christians, someone made the (correct) remark that\nLenin's maternal grandfather was a Jew who converted to Christianity.\n\nTo counter the fact that Stalin was a Christian who, during his youth,\nwas trained to be a priest, Mr. Salah wrote \"yes, it says he was trained\nto be a priest, but not for what religion!\" (BTW, Stalin developed\nstrong antisemitic feelings later in his life).\n\nMr. Salah seems intent on trying to spread hate against Jews by posting\nantisemitic forgeries and trying to \"prove\" that certain notorious\npeople were Jews, even if they were not.\n", "\tFirst let me correct myself in that it was Goerbels and\nnot Goering (Airforce) who ran the Nazi propaganda machine. I\nagree that Arab news sources are also inherently biased. But I\nbelieve the statement I was reacting to was that since the\namerican accounts of events are not fully like the Israeli\naccounts, the Americans are biased. I just thought that the\nIsraelis had more motivation for bias.\n\tThe UN has tried many times to condemn Israel for its\ngross violation of human rights. However the US has vetoed most\nsuch attempts. It is interesting to note that the U.S. is often\nthe only country opposing such condemnation (well the U.S. and\nIsrael). It is also interesting to note that that means\nother western countries realize these human rights violations.\nSo maybe there are human rights violations going on after all. \n", "\n\nNobody ever produced the meagerest evidence for this. It does not\nappear in several long published accounts by Irgun participants.\nEven some Irgun propagandists do not make this claim.\n\n\nSeveral members of the Irgun attacking party, including the leader,\ndeposited personal declarations in the Irgun archives (Jabotinsky\nInstitute, Tel-Aviv) which state that the Lehi proposed to \"liquidate\nthe village after the conquest\". It seems the Begin overruled\nthis plan, however the willingness of many of the attackers to\nseriously consider this possibility serves as instructive\ncharacter evidence.\n\n\nThe Haganah tried to get the Irgun to attack a village with\nreal military significance, but it was considered too hard. \nThe soft target of Deir Yassin was chosen instead.\n\n\nThere was intention (probably originating with Begin) to give such\na warning but the loudspeaker truck got stuck in a ditch before\nreaching the village. Everyone knows that.\n\n\nBy all rational standards, you should be posting from b-cpu.\n\n\nA lie repeated is still a lie.\n", "\n\n\n\nSyria had been bombing Israeli settlements from the Golan and sending\nterrorist squads into Israel for years. Do you need me to provide specifics?\nI can.\n\nWhy don't you give it up, Hasan? I'm really starting to get tired of your \nempty lies. You can defend your position and ideology with documented facts\nand arguments rather than the crap you regularly post. Take an example from\nsomeone like Brendan McKay, with whom I don't agree, but who uses logic and\ndocumentation to argue his position. Why must you insist on constantly spouting\nbaseless lies? You may piss some people off, but that's about it. You won't\nprove anything or add anything worthy to a discussion. Your arguments just \nprove what a poor debater you are and how weak your case really is.", "\nIf \"ownership\" were rightly based on \"worthiness\" there wouldn't be any owners.\nWhat is your point?\n\nAs I understand it, Israel's \"claim\" on Jerusalem is based on 1) possession,\nand 2) the absolutely CENTRAL (not second, not third) role it plays in jewish \nidentity. \n\n", "Ilyess sez: \n >So how would have *you* defended Saudi Arabia and rolled \n >back the Iraqi invasion, were you in charge of Saudi Arabia??? \n \n All Muslims knew that the whole thing was set up to destroy Iraq, not \n to \"Liberate Kuwait\", The people who were killed by the invasion are \n more (many many more), than the ones that were killed by the Iraqis \n in their smaller invasion. I lived in the west, and I have seen how \n your media prepared you (helpless naive Americans) for a war against \n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ \nNo doubt you plan on exploiting \"helpless naive Americans\" for your own\npurposes. Hmm...let's see: \n\n Iraq even before the artificial conflict between Iraq and Kuwait that \n led to the invasion, as the CIA correctly predicted (and pretended to \n be surprised not to know). \n It just happened that Saddam was so predictible and so arrogant and stupid. \n\n What would I have done: Most Muslims would choose 300 dead Kuwaitis over \n 200,000 dead Iraqis and 1000 dead Kuwaitis. The first case would happen \n if no western intervention happened, and the second case was a direct \n or indirect result of western envolvement. \n\nPossibly, if 200,000 Iraqis had indeed died, but this number is based on\nGreenpeace estimates. Greenpeace had compromised its alleged\nimpartiality during the war by condemning the potential environmental\nconsequences of Allied miiltary action, while initially *completely*\nignoring Iraq's horrible environmental crimes, starting with the dumping\nof millions of barrels of oil into the Gulf at Ahmadi to the blowing of\nover 700 oil wells. What is the real number? There has been a lot of\nwork on this in the last two years, none of it reported as the\nGreenpeace figure seems to get continuously bandied about. The real\nnumber seems to be around 10,000, on the same order as the number of\nKuwaitis killed, tortured and kidnapped during the occupation. I've\nincluded an article I recently posted below, but this is really old\nnews. Independent Television News reported a figure around 15,000 only\na few months after the war, but it was hardly reported. \n\nFor the Allies to have killed 200,000 Iraqis, they would have had to\nkill twice the *total* number of Iraqis in Kuwait. \n\nThe favored image of the hysterics is the last battle of the war at\nMutla'. This was yet another example of the American and European media\nplaying into the hands of Iraq and its de facto allies. The\ndestruction of the Iraqi convoy at Mutla' was portrayed as an all-out\nslaughter. This is simply not true. The head and tail of the convoy\nwas bombed initially, resulting in a lot of casualties at these points. \n Before bombers came back, most of the rest of the Iraqi soldiers fled\non foot. \n\nFurthermore, your estimates of Kuwaiti war dead if Allies hadn't invaded\nis completely ridiculous. You have acknowledged (certainly implicitly) \n that Saddam is a barbarous brute. You have acknowledged the hundreds\nof thousands he has been responible for killing *in his own country*. \nYou *know* that the man he appointed as governor of Kuwait, Ali Majid,\nwas his most brutal henchman, presiding over the near genocide of the\nKurds in the late 80's and, more recently, the Shi'a. Yet, when it\ncomes to his treatment of Kuwaitis, he is an angel. In your estimate,\nhe would've killed *fewer* than he already had when the war started. \nWhat a joke! \n\n\nAPn 03/09 0006 Iraq War Dead \n\nCopyright, 1993. The Associated Press. All rights reserved. ", "\nThere certainly are muslims who *do not* believe that their dream of \na global Islamic community should be achieved through force. There are, \nhowever, others (and, they are often far more visible/vocal than the \nformer) who *do* accept the establishment of global Islam through force. \nI would *not* feel threatened by those only accepting or pursuing \n\"Islamicization\" through peaceful means, nor by Jews advocating the same\napproach. Those advocating force as a means of expanding their side's\npower are certainly a threat.\n\nTo Palestinians, Israel is doing just that; maintaining its dominance\nof those *outside* its own \"group\". If I am told that \"I am not one of\nyou\" but you then impose your control on me, damn right you are a threat.\nIf I am a member of a non-muslim minority *inside* the Islamic\nworld and *actively did not* accept my \"minority\" status, I *would also \ncertainly* see Islam's domination as having been acheived, and maintained, \nthrough the powerful coercive force all majorities wield over minorities\nwithin their ranks.\n\nI am not a zionist, but do feel that *both* Jewish and Palestinian\nnationalist desires need, at this juncture, to be accepted in some way.\nFor the same reason that some muslims believe it is proper and righteous\nfor Islam to be spread by force upon those who DO NOT WANT THAT. \n\n\n[I refer to the \"most\" you also refer to] \nBecause they are scared, and feel very threatened, as well feeling that \nthis area *is* to some degree part of their belief/religion/heritage/\nidentity/etc.", "Having read the posted long article by JPFO, I have some observations:\n\n1. This article does NOT claim that the GCA of 1968 is a \"verbatim \ntranslation\" of a Nazi law. What it says is that in another place --\nthe book they're talking about -- they compare the two things section\nby section. The implication is that the similarities are devastating.\nIn the next sentence, they talk about how in that book they reproduce \nthe German text of the Nazi law, together with its translation. Not \nsurprisingly, a reader could easily conflate these two things into a \nsingle idea: that the American GCA is a literal translation of the Nazi\nlaw; and sure enough, that's what the whole thing has mutated into, \nurban-folklore style.\n\n2. The article goes to great pains to establish that Senator Dodd had a \ncopy of the Nazi law, either from his time on the Nurnberg prosecution \nteam or later. This fact is considered highly incriminating, but I don't \nunderstand why. The author repeats several times that he is simply unable \nto imagine how anyone could come into possession of the original text; and \nyet in a paragraph towards the end, he explains it perfectly:\n\n\"If Dodd got his copy of the original German text of the Nazi Weapons\nLaw during his time at Nurnberg, it likely was part of a collection of\ndocuments, for example, issues of the Reichsgesetzblatt [the German\nlaw registry].\"\n\nBingo. Exactly. \n\nDodd had a *book*, with a series of Nazi laws in it, including the one\nunder discussion. All of the stuff about \"Why would a U.S. congressman\nhave a copy of a Nazi law?\" melts away, by the author's admission. He\nthen continues: \"But if he acquired the original German text of the \nNazi Weapons Law after his service at Nurnberg, he must have done so \nfor a very specific reason...\" But there's absolutely no reason to \nthink that this is the case. In fact, as a \"senior member of the U.S. \nteam that helped to prosecute Nazi war criminals\", it seems to me that\nhe would have *had* to have a copy. All arguments about whether \nthe Nazi Weapon Law is really of historical interest (as it obviously\nis, certainly according to the author here), or whether Dodd personally\nprosecuted the Interior Minister who signed it, can be put aside as red \nherrings.\n\n3. Having established that Dodd owned a copy of the original German text, the\nJPFO article then tries to draw sinister implications from the fact that he \nasked to have it translated. The problem is, in the context of the charge \nlevelled at Dodd, these two things work *against* each other. People ask \nto have things translated when they *don't know what they mean*. If Dodd \ntook it upon himself to preserve the Nazi law with idea of someday introducing \nit into American law, surely by 1968 he would have know what it *meant*, \nwouldn't he?\n Anyway, this precise charge -- the main one that I questioned in an earlier\nposting -- is just silly. Why would Dodd need the exact translation for this\npurpose? Is the idea that the gun controllers, despite being presumably bent\non disarming the populace with the goal of eventually destroying all civil\nliberties, needed a crib sheet? Didn't they have any idea how to do it\non their own?\n Once again, the author provides a perfectly acceptable answer to his\nown question: \"Dodd may have offered his copy of the Nazi Weapons Law\nto show that the specific proposal did not resemble anything in the \nNazi law.\" In fact, since the law and its translation *were* entered\ninto the Congressional Record, under the heading of documents \"concerning\nthe history of Nazism and gun confiscation\", Dodd's motivation isn't a \nmystery: he asked for the translation in order to put it in the CR.\n\n4. Even this article makes it clear that the part of the Nazi law that\nwas added *by* the Nazi regime is only a small part of that law. \nRegistration of guns, for instance, was begun in 1928, and thus NOT\na \"Nazi-inspired\" idea. The parts of the Nazi law that parallel the \n1968 GCA include handgun control of some sort, and the identification \nof certain weapons as sporting weapons. The JPFO then goes on to list \nother parts of the Nazi law, forbidding ownership of weapons by Jews;\nof course, there are no such provisions in the American GCA. Nevertheless,\nin a rhetorical move guaranteed to muddy the waters, immediately after the \ndiscussion of the anti-Jewish parts of the law, the JPFO article continues, \n\"Given the parallels between the Nazi Weapons Law and the GCA'68...\" -- so \nas to get maximum emotional mileage out of that aspect of the law.", "\n\nYou are conveniently ommitting the fact that the Arab governments told the\nArab citizens of Israel to leave Israel, join with the Arab armies so that\nafter what they felt like an assured victory occured, these Arabs could\nreturn to their former homes, reclaim them as well as anything else they\nwanted that belonged to Jews. When the Arabs lost, Israel was left with\na bunch of people who has just tried to kill them who now wanted back\ninto the country as citizens. What would you have done? Let them in so\nthey could kill Jews? Israel sees those Arabs who stayed as citizens \nbecause they were loyal to Israel during the war and didn't leave. Of\ncourse some Arabs could have left to avoid the fighting but distinguishing\nbetween the two is impossible. Therefore a decision was made based on\nsecuturity of the country.\n\n\nNo kibbutz that I have ever visited has any \"employees\" unless they had to\nhire some people for the restaurants, hotels etc if there weren't enough \npeople ON the kibbutz to do them. In such cases, they are paid properly.\nIf a kibbutz turns away an Arab, 9I have never seen or heard of this) but it\nreflects only on the membership comittee of that kibbutz, not the whole\nkibbutz movement.\n\n\nThis just shows how ignorant you are of Israeli politics. Although the \nmajor parties in Israel aren't religious (however not totally secular),\ndue to the format of the government (coalition) the religious parties have\nalways had a lot of pull since they were needed to form a majority coalition.\nIn fact, from what I heard the present government is the least influenced\nby the religious parties in the existance of Israel. Israel CANNOT be\ncalled a secular state. For instace, Haifa is the only city in the country\n(except for maybe some Arab cities) where buses run on the Jewish Sabbath. \nThere are many other examples of religion in Israel. Marriages in Israel\nare NOT contolled by the state, but by Rabbis and Priests. Obviously your \ndisbelief of this fact sheds some light of your ignorance of the country\nyou claim to know so much about.\n\n Steve\n-- ", "\nAnd we all know what an unbiased source the NYT is when it comes to things\nconcerning Israel.\n\nNeither the Times nor the trained seals who have responded thus far seem to\nrecognize the statement that these \"private funds\" were all tax exmpt. In\notherwords, American taxpayers put up at least 30% of the money. And\nfinalyy, how does \"Federal land\" mitigate the offensiveness of this alien\nmonument dedicated to perpetuating pitty and the continual flow of tax money\nto a foreign entity?", "\nGannon, why don't you tell the readers of these newsgroups\nhow you hail Nazism on your BBS, and post long articles\nclaiming non-Whites are inferior?\n\n# THE U.S. HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL MUSEUM: A COSTLY AND DANGEROUS MISTAKE\n\nThe Museum is entirely funded by private donations, but don't\nexpect this fact to deter \"Maynard\".\n\nBTW, Gannon's ideological fathers also had a passion for constructing\nmuseums and collections, some of which served to educate the\npublic about the racial supremacy of the Aryans. One such\ncollection was that of skeletons, and there was no lack of these\naround:\n\nLetter from SS-Standartenfuehrer Sievers to SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer\nDr. Brandt, November 2 1942\n[\"Trial of the Major War Criminals\", p. 520]\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\nDear Comarade Brandt,\n\nAs you know, the Reichsfuehrer-SS has directed that\nSS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Prof. Dr. Hirt be supplied with everything\nneeded for his research work. For certain anthropological\nresearches - I already reported to the Reichsfuehrer-SS on\nthem - 150 skeletons of prisoners, or rather Jews, are\nrequired, which are to be supplied by the KL Auschwitz.\n\n\nHowever, the good Doctor needed some more items to complete his\nresearch:\n\nTestimony of Magnus Wochner, SS guard at the Natzweiler Concentration\nCamp\n[\"The Natzweiler Trial\", Edited by Anthony M. Webb, p. 89]\n--------------------------------------------------------------------\n... I recall particularly one mass execution when about 90 prisoners\n(60 men and 30 women), all Jews, were killed by gassing. This took\nplace, as far as I can remember, in spring 1944. In this case the\ncorpses were sent to Professor Hirt of the department of Anatomy in\nStrasbourg.\n", "\n\"fete\"??? Since this word both formally and commonly refers to\npositive/joyous events, your misuse of it here is rather unsettling.\n \n\nI certainly abhor those Israeli policies and attitudes that are\nabusive towards the Palestinians/Gazans. Given that, however, there \n*is no comparison* between the reality of the Warsaw Ghetto and in \nGaza. \n\nJust as international law recognizes the right of the occupying \nentity to maintain order, especially in the face of elements\nthat are consciously attempting to disrupt the civil structure. \nIronically, international law recognizes each of these focusses\n(that of the occupied and the occupier) even though they are \ninherently in conflict.\n\nIsrael certainly cannot, and should not, continue its present\npolicies towards Gazan residents. There is, however, a third \nalternative- the creation and implementation of a jewish \"dhimmi\"\nsystem with Gazans/Palestinians as benignly \"protected\" citizens.\nWould you find THAT as acceptable in that form as you do with\nregard to Islam's policies towards its minorities?\n \n\nIt is a race, then? Between Israel's anti-Palestinian/Gazan\n\"Final Solution\" and the Arab World's anti-Israel/jewish\n\"Final Solution\". Do you favor one? neither? \n\nSince there is justifiable worry by various parties that Israel\nand Arab/Palestinian \"final solution\" intentions exist, isn't it\nimportant that BOTH Israeli *and* Palestinian/Gazan \"rights\"\nbe secured?\n\n", "I will try to answer some of Dorin's questions, even though they were\nnot addressed to me specifically, but I feel that I am a bit concerned\nby the thread since I am a Southern Lebanese from a village that is \noften on the receiving end of Israel's bombs.\nIn the first place the death of three soldiers on a patrol in occupied\nLebanese terrritory is NOT an act of terrorism or murder. It is \ndisingeneous to compare their death to that of athletes in Munich\nor any other act of terrorism or mrder. This exercise is aimed \nsolely at diverting the issue and is far from the truth.\nIt seems to me, Dorin, that, you are so remote and ignorant of the problem\non the ground that your comments can only be charactrized as irrelevant,\nand heavily colored by the preconceptions and misinformation.\nI will try to paint the most accurate picture I can of\nwhat the situation really is in South Lebanon.\n\n\n\nI am. I was back in my home village this last summer. For your information\nwe are PEOPLE, not a bunch of indiscriminate terrorists. Most of the \npeople in my village are regular inhabitants that go about their daily\nbusiness, some work in the fields, some own small shops, others are\nolder men that go to the coffe shop and drink coffee. Is that so hard to\nimagine ???? It is NOT a \"terrorist camp\" as you and the Israelis like \nto view the villages they are small communities with kids playing soccer\nin the streets, women preparing lunch, men playing cards, etc.....\nSOME young men, usually aged between 17 to 30 years are members of\nthe Lebanese resistance. Even the inhabitants of the village do not \nknow who these are, they are secretive about it, but most people often\nsuspect who they are and what they are up to. These young men are\nsupported financially by Iran most of the time. They sneak arms and\nammunitions into the occupied zone where they set up booby traps\nfor Israeli patrols. Every time an Israeli soldier is killed or injured\nby these traps, Israel retalliates by indiscriminately bombing villages\nof their own choosing often killing only innocent civilians. Once they\nare back they announce that they bombed a \"terrorist hideout\" where\nan 8 year old girl just happened to be.\nWe are now accustomed to Israeli tactics, and we figure that this is \nthe Israeli way of telling us that \"if you're gonna hurt our soldiers\nyou're gonna pay the price\". We accept this as a price we have to pay\nto free our land, Israel knows very well that it is not really hurting\nthe resistance that much militarily with these strikes, but rather\njust keeping the pressure on the villagers to demand from their young \nmen to stop attacking Israeli soldiers since these attacks are\ntaking a heavy toll on the lives of the civilian villagers.\nIsrael's retalliation policy is cold hearted, but a reality that\nwe have come to accept and deal with, the Lebanese Resistance\non the other hand is not going to stop its attacks on OCCUPYING \nISRAELI SOLDIERS until they withdraw, this is the only real \nleverage that they have to force Israel to withdraw.\nThe people of South Lebanon are occupied, or shelled by Israel on a \nregular basis. We do not want to be occupied. If Israel insists that\nthe so called \"Security Zone\" is necessary for the protection of \nNorthern Israel, than it will have to pay the price of its occupation\nwith the blood of its soldiers. If Israel is interested in peace,\nthan it should withdraw from OUR land. We are not asking for the \nestablishment of a Lebanese occupied zone in northern Israel to protect\nour villages that are attacked on a regular basis by Israel, so the\nbest policy seems to be the removal of Israeli occupation and the\nestablishment of peace keeping troops along the border.\n\nI have written before on this very newsgroup, that the only\nreal solution will come as a result of a comprehensive peace\nsettlement whereby Israel withdraws to its own borders and\npeace keeping troops are stationed along the border to insure\nno one on either side of the border is shelled.\nThis is the only realistic solution, it is time for Israel to\nrealize that the concept of a \"buffer zone\" aimed at protecting\nits northern cities has failed. In fact it has caused much more\nIsraeli deaths than the occasional shelling of Northern Israel\nwould have resulted in. \nIf Israel really wants to save some Israeli lives it would withdraw \nunilaterally from the so-called \"Security Zone\" before the conclusion\nof the peace talks. Such a move would save Israeli lives,\nadvance peace efforts, give Israel a great moral lift, better Israel's \npublic image abroad and give it an edge in the peace negociations \nsince Israel can rightly claim that it is genuinely interested in \npeace and has already offered some important concessions.\nAlong with such a withdrawal Israel could demand that Hizbollah\nbe disarmed by the Lebanese government and warn that it will not \naccept any attacks against its northern cities and that if such a\nshelling occurs than it will consider re-taking the buffer zone\nand will hold the Lebanese and Syrian government responsible for it.\nThere seems to be very little incentive for the Syrian and Lebanese\ngoovernment to allow Hizbollah to bomb Israel proper under such \ncircumstances, and now the Lebanese government has proven that it is\ncapable of controlling and disarming all militias as they did\nin all other parts of Lebanon.\n \n\nI agree, only in the case of the Isareli soldiers their killing\nCANNOT be qualified as murder, no matter what you say.\n\n I have the feeling that you may be able yourself to make\n\nYes, we have no quarrel with Jews, or Israeli civilians.\nThe real problem is with OCCUPYING Israeli soldiers and those brave\nIsraeli pilots that bomb our civilian villages every time an \noccupying soldier is attacked.\n \n", "OK, you've already disqualified yourself (who ever you are) from\nbeing objective.\n\n\nJews are a people with a common cultural heritage, religion, and history.\nWe are not a race.\n\n\n\nYou don't see a difference between killing British soldiers (who were\npreventing Jews who tried to escape the Nazis from entering the\nBritish mandate) and Arab terrorist who kill civilian men, women, and\nchildren?!?\n\n\n\nThat's ridiculuous on atleast two counts. First of all, even if you identify\nyourself as completely Jewish that doesn't rule out the possibility that you're\na self-hating anti-semite. One can always find Jews who are uncomfortable with\ntheir identities (since they only want Jews to be cowering victims) and are\nwilling to speak up for their enemies. Secondly, the strength or weakness of\nyour arguments does not depend on your identity.", "From: Kayhan Havai # 1026\n--------------------------\n \n \no Dr. Namaki, deputy minister of health stated that infant\n mortality (under one year old) in Iran went down from 120 \n per thousand before the revolution to 33 per thousand at\n the end of 1371 (last month).\n \no Dr Namaki also stated that before the revolution only\n 254f children received vaccinations to protect them\n from various deseases but this figure reached 93at\n the end of 1371.\n \no Dr. Malekzadeh, the minister of health mentioned that\n the population growth rate in Iran at the end of 1371\n went below 2.7\n \no During the visit of Mahathir Mohammad, the prime minister\n of Malaysia, to Iran, agreements for cooperation in the\n areas of industry, trade, education and tourism were\n signed. According to one agreement, Iran will be in\n charge of building Malaysia's natural gas network.\n \n----------------------------------------------------------\n \n - Farzin Mokhtarian\n \n", "\n\n\n\tHate to be simple minded about this Tim, but I think its\nreally very simple. He was a dirty Jew. And the only good Jew, in\nsome peoples mind, is a dead Jew. Thats what 40 years of propaganda\nthat fails to discriminate between Jew and Zionist will do. Thats\nwhat 20 years of statements like the ones I've appended will do to\nsomeones mind. They make people sick. They drag down political\ndiscourse to the point where killing your opponent is an honorable way\nto resolve a dispute.\n\n\tWhat else can come of such demagogery? Peace?\n\nAdam\n\n\nArafat on political pluralism:\n\n\t``Any Palestinian leader who suggests ending the intifada\n\texposes himself to the bullets of his own people and\n\tendangers his life. The PLO will know how to deal with\n\thim.''\n\t--- Arafat, Kuwaiti News Agency, 1/2/89\n\nArafat on the massacre at Tienamin Square:\n\n\t``... on behalf of the Arab Palestinian People, their\n leadership, and myself... [I] take this opportunity to express\n extreme gratification that you were able to restore normal order\n after the recent incidents in People's China.''\n\t--- Arafat in telegram sent to the head of the Chinese Communist Party\n\nYassir Arafat, humanitarian:\n\n ``Open fire on the new Jewish immigrants ... be they from the\n Soviet Union, Ethiopia, or anywhere else. It would be a disgrace if\n we did not lift a finger while herds of immigrants settle our\n territory. I want you to shoot... It makes no difference if they\n live in Jaffa or Jericho. I give you explicit orders to open fire.\n Do everything to stop the flow of immigration.''\n\t--- Yassir Arafat, Al Muharar (Lebanese weekly), April 10, 1990\n\nYassir Arafat on genocide:\n\n\t``When the Arabs set off their volcano, there will only be Arabs in\n\tthis part of the world. Our people will continue to fuel the torch\n\tof the revolution with rivers of blood until the whole of the\n\toccupied homeland is liberated...''\n\t--- Yasser Arafat, AP, 3/12/79\n\n\n\n\nAdam Shostack \t\t\t\t adam@das.harvard.edu", "\n\nThis is historically incorrect. Early Zionist 'fighters' did indeed\ntarget civilians. They made random attacks in Arab marketplaces,\nkilling innocent passers-by. Your assertion of the opposite is an\nattempt to whitewash history. Anyone can read about the history of\nthe Zionist terrorists. A good book to start is the one by J. Bowyer\nBell, an expert in international terrorism. (His main interest is\nIrish terrorism.)\n\n AUTHOR: Bell, J. Bowyer, 1931-\n TITLE: Terror out of Zion : Irgun Zvai Leumi, LEHI, and the Palestine\n underground, 1929-1949 / J. Bowyer Bell.\n PUB. INFO: New York : St. Martin's Press, c1977.\n DESCRIPTION: xi, 374 p., [14] leaves of plates : ill., maps ; 24 cm.\n SUBJECTS: *S1 Lohame herut Yisrael.\n *S2 Irgun tsevai leumi.\n *S3 Israel-Arab War, 1948-1949.\n *S4 Jewish-Arab relations--1917-1949.\n LC CALLNO: DS119.7.B382 1977\n\nFor completeness, Arab thuggery of the same period was also rampant,\nand targeted chiefly Jewish civilians. Can anyone tell me what the\nopposite of live and let live is?", "\nIt has nothing to do with how long they have been voting, as much as HOW\nthey have been voting. Pick up a list of the Labor parties proposals\nfor MK prior to the election and pay attention to the order. Correlate this\nwith the number of Arab party members eligible to vote in party elections.\nFurther correlate this with the voting results from Arab areas.\n\nLo and behold, you will discover that Israeli Arab Labor party members\ndid not band together unanimously or en large for a select group of\nArab candidates. This problem is further exacerbated by the rifts\nbetween Israeli Arabs. Some claim membership to right wing parties\nwhile others vote for parties that do not pass the minimum cutoff.\n\nI worked within the labor party during the late 70's elections (not this\nlast one) as a volunteer and was privy to the voting results that\nwere returned from the local delegates elected. At the time, the system\nwas structured differently but it did not cease to amaze me that there\nwas no massive effort to lobby for Arab reps. by their own delegates.\n\n\nQuite simply, if all eligible Arab voters became members of the Labor\nparty and voted, they would be able to command more than %15 of\nthe delegates. This is a power base that can not be ignored!\nEspecially when they are not ranked high in the party (once again\ndue to lack of political power). I have seen how the labor party\nworks from the inside and my experience has been that, as in most\npolitical situations, the MKs act out of their own self-interest.\n\nAnd to answer your question, I \"broke\" with labor because I felt\nthat they were heeding too much to the right-wing and ultra-orthodox\ncoalition members.\n\n\nFair enough. My take on the matter, and I will admit to the possibility\nthat this might be seen differently is that this was a dummy argument.\nIf he was sitting on the committee, then someone else obviously would not\nbe. In drumming up support for his seat, MK [?] would not be averse to\nusing this argument, or it could be used on his behalf.\n\nAs to the proof presented in this article, I would find it very\ninteresting to know who proposed the compromise along with a followup\ndescribing how the matter stands/was resolved.\n\nLet me just take this opportunity to say that I deplore such actions\nand groundless justifications.\n\n\nFor the record, Roni Milo, is a brash MK (self described) from the Likud\n(note NOT LABOR). Quite frankly, I don't think anything he would say could\nsurprise me. Annoy and aggravate, yes, surprise - no.\n\n\nYes I do and thank you for providing it. I would be most interested\nin knowing how things turned out. Anyone......?\n\n", "\nI thought the implication was that the prince destroyed one fourth of the\nremaining Persian troops on the second round, and then 1/11 of those remaining\non the third round. This would mean", "From Israeline 4/14\n\nToday's MA'ARIV reports that yesterday, following Egyptian\nPresident Hosni Mubarak's meeting with PLO Chief Yasser Arafat and\nprominent Palestinian Faisal al-Husseini, the latter said that in\nprinciple, the Palestinians have decided to participate in the\npeace talks. Nonetheless, he noted that everything will be decided\nupon at the meeting of the Arab foreign ministers in Damascus. The\nnewspaper also reports that threatening phone calls were recently\nmade to houses of several of the senior members of the Palestinian\ndelegation to the peace talks. The threats, in Arabic, demanded\nthat the delegates not go to Washington to, \"sell out the\nPalestinian people.\" One caller threatened, \"Should you go, you\nwill not find your family alive upon your return.\" The newspaper\nstates that such phone calls were received, as far as is known, at\nthe houses of Faisal al-Husseini, Hanan Ashrawi and others.\n", "\nDoes anyone have a reference to the claim that the Arabs in the\nMoghrabi district were \"squatters\"? I haven't seen this in the books\nI have read. I haven't seen the opposite, either...", "\n\n\nCome on! Most if not all Arabs are sympathetic to the Palestinian war \nagainst Israel. That is why the ADL monitors Arab organizations. That is\nthe same reason the US monitored communist organizations and Soviet nationals\nonly a few years ago. \n\n\nAll of these groups have, in the past, associated with or been a part of anti-\nIsrael activity or propoganda. The ADL is simply monitoring them so that if\nanything comes up, they won't be caught by surprise.\n\n\n\nNo, that is why World Trade Center bombings don't happen in Israel (aside from\nthe fact that there is no world trade center) and why people like Zein Isa (\nPalestinian whose American group planned to bow up the Israeli Embassy and \n\"kill many Jews.\") are caught. As Mordechai Levy of the JDL said, Paranoid\nJews live longer.\n\n\n\nThey probably do.", "I don't think Yigal and his friends have had as much fun for years,\nif ever, as they're getting over this ADL business.\n\nThe publicity is likely to generate some speaker's fees, too. ", "Danny Rubenstein, an Israeli journalist, will be speaking tonight \n(Wednesday, 7:30 pm) on the messy subject of politics in Israel.\nHe is speaking at Hillel on the U.C. Berkeley campus.", "\nDr. cheghadr bA namakand! They just wait until they are teenagers to kill\nthem!\n\n\nhuh?\n\n\n\nYup. IRI also granted a great deal of reconstruction of houses and\nbuildings in war torn areas to Malaysia. Khak too sareshoon, one of the \nonly industries we really have is construction, and there are all these\nunemployed youth, and they give money to Malaysia to do what Iranians\ncan and should be doing.\n ", "April 13, 1993 response by Al Moore (L629159@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM):\n\nBasically the problem is that Israel may remain, or leave, the occupied \nterritories; it cannot do both, it cannot do neither. So far, Israe \ncontinues to propose that they remain. The Palestinians propose that they \nleave. Why should either change their view? It is worth pointing out that \nthe only area of compromise accomodating both views seems to require a\nreduction in the Israeli presence. Israel proposes no such reduction....\nand in fact may be said to *not* be negotiating.\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nTim: \n\nThere seem to be two perceptions that **have to be addressed**. The\nfirst is that of Israel, where there is little trust for Arab groups, so\nthere is little support for Israel giving up **tangible** assets in \nexchange for pieces of paper, \"expectations\", \"hopes\", etc. The second\nis that of the Arab world/Palestinians, where there is the demand that\nthese \"tangible concessions\" be made by Israel **without** it receiving\nanything **tangible** back. Given this, the gap between the two stances\nseems to be the need by Israel of receiving some ***tangible*** returns\nfor its expected concessions. By \"tangible\" is meant something that\n1) provides Israel with \"comparable\" protection (from the land it is to \ngive up), 2) in some way ensures that the Arab states and Palestine \n**will be** accountable and held actively (not just \"diplomatically) \nresponsible for the upholding of all actions on its territory (by citizens \nor \"visitors\").\n\nIn essence I do not believe that Israel objections to Palestinian\nstatehood would be anywhere near as strong as they are now IF Israel\nwas assured that any new Palestinian state *would be committed to** \nco-existing with Israel and held responsible for ALL attacks on Israel \nfrom its territory.\n\tAside from some of the rather slanted proposals above,\n\thow *could* such \"guarantees\" be instilled? For example,\n\thow could such \"guarantees\"/\"controls\" be added to the\n\tPalestinian PISGA proposals?\n\nIsrael is hanging on largely because it is scared stiff that the minute\nit lets go (gives lands back to Arab states, no more \"buffer zone\", gives\nfull autonomy to Palestinians), ANY and/or ALL of the Arab parties\ncould (and *would*, if not \"controlled\" somehow) EASILY return to the \ntraditional anti-Israel position. The question then is HOW to *really*\nensure that that will not happen.", "I have found Jewish people very imagentative and creative. Jewish religion was the foundation for Christianity and\nIslam. In other words Judaism has fathered both religions. Now Islam has turned against its father I may say.\nIt is Ironic that after communizem threat is almost gone, religion wars are going to be on the raise. \nI thought the idea of believing on one God, was to Unite all man kind. How come both Jews and Islam which believe\non the same God, \"the God of Ebrahim\" are killing each other? Is this like Dr. Frankenstien's story?\nHow are you going to stop this from happening? How are you going to deal with so many Muslims. Nuking them \nwould distroy the whole world? Would God get mad, since you have killed his followers, you believe on the same\nGod, same heaven and the same hell after all? What is the peacefull way of ending this Saga?\n\n\nMan kind needs religion, since it sets up the rules and the regulations which keeps the society in a healthy state.\nA religion is mostly a sets of rules which people have experienced and know it works for the society.\nThe praying, keeps the sole healthy and meditates it. God does not care for man kinds pray, but man kind hopes\nthat God will help him when he prays.\nReligion works mostly on the moral issues and trys to put away the materialistic things in the life. But the \nreligious leaders need to make a living through religion? So they may corrupt it, or turn it to their own way to\nmake their living. i.e Muslims have to pay %20 percent of their income to the Mullahs. I guess the rabie gets his\ncut too! \n\nIs in it that religion should be such that everybody on planet earth respects each other, be good toward each other\nhelps one another, respect the mother nature. Is in that heaven and hell are created on earth through the acts \nthat we take today? Is in it that within every man there is good and bad, he could choose either one, then he will\nsee the outcome of his choice. How can we prevent man kind from going crazy over religion. How can we stop\nanother religious killing field, under poor Gods name? What are your thoughts? Do you think man kind would\nto come its senses, before it is too late?\n\n\nP.S. on the side\n\nDo you think that Moses saw the God on mount Sina? Why would God go to top of the mountain? He created\nthe earth, he could have been anywhere? why on top the mountain? Was it because people thought to see God\nyou have to reach to the skies/heavens? Why God kept coming back to Middle East? Was it because they created\nGod through their imagination? Is that why Jewish people were told by God, they were the chosen ones?\n\nProfit Mohammad was married to Khadijeh. She was a Jewish. She taught him how to trade. She probably taught\nhim about Judaism. Quran is mostly copy right of Taurah (sp? old testement). Do you think God wrote Quran?\nMakeh was a trade city before Islam. Do you think it was made to be the center of Islamic world because Mohammad\nwanted to expand his trade business? Is that why God has put his house in there? \n\nI think this religious stuff has gone too far. All man kind are going to hurt from it if they do not wise up.\nLook at David Koresh, how that turned out? I am afraid in the bigger scale, the Jews and the Muslims will\nhave the same ending!!!!!!!!\n\nReligion is needed in the sense to keep people in harmony and keep them doing good things, rather than\nplotting each others distruction. There is one earth, One life and one God. Let's all man kind be good toward\neach other.", "\n\n\tThat's true. Israeli ID cards do not identify people\n\tas Israelies. Smart huh?\n\n\n\n\tYes. There's one warhead in my parent's backyard in\n\tBeer Sheva (that's only some 20 miles from Dimona,\n\tyou know). Evidence? I saw it!\n\n \n\n\tYes. But unfortunately I can't give you more details.\n\tThat's _secret_, you see.\n\n\n\t\t\t[...]\n\n\n\n\tYou're welcome. Now, let me ask you a few questions, if you\n\tdon't mind:\n\n\t1. Is it true that the Center for Policy Research is a \n\t one-man enterprise?\n\n\t2. Is it true that your questions are not being asked\n\t bona fide?\n\n\t3. Is it true that your statement above, \"These are indeed \n\t provocative questions but they are asked time and again by\n\t people around me\" is not true?\n", "\nBut it's STILL HAPPENING. That's the entire point. Only last month, John\nMajor hailed it as a great victory that he had personally secured a sale of\narms to Saudi Arabia. The same month, we sold jet fighters to the same\nIndonesian government that's busy killing the East Timorese.\n\nIt's all very well to say \"Oops, we made a boo-boo, better clean up the\nmistake\", but the US and UK *keep* making the *same* mistake. They do it so\noften that I can't believe it's not deliberate. This suspicion is reinforced\nby the fact that the mistake is an extremely profitable one for a decrepit\neconomy reliant on arms sales.\n\n\nNo, I thought both were terrible.\n", "\n\nBullshit. You've been in Iceland for the past 30 years. You told us\nso yourself. It had something to do with not wanting to suffer the\nfate of your mother, who has lived with Jews for a long time or\nsomesuch. Sounded awful.\n\n\nAre you as concerned about peace and justice in Palestine (Jordan)?\n\n\nLet's say that Israel grants the PLO _EVERYTHING THEY EVER ASKED FOR_.\nThat Israel goes back to the 1967 borders. What will the \"Palestinean\nArabs\" in Tel-Aviv call themselves? The Palestineans in West\nJerusalem? In Haifa? Will they still claim to be \"occupied\"?\n\nOr do you suggest that Israel expell or kill off any remaining Arabs,\nmuch as the Arabs did to their Jews?\n\nIndeed, there is much which is not symmetrical about the conflict in\nthe M.E. And most of this lack of symmetry does NOT favor Israel.\n\n", "\nWhere does it say in the bible that Christians are supposed to persecute\nJews? Isn't it love your enemies instead? They may say they are \"Christian\"\nbut do their actions speak differently? Do you believe what everyone tells\nyou? I don't. I came to believe in God by my own investigation and conclusions.\nAnd ultimately by my own choice. Salvation, however, was granted only through\nthe grace of God.\n\n\nTo be a Christian is to model oneself after Jesus Christ as implied by the\nvery name Christian. If you say you believe in your head but do not feel in\nyour heart, what does that say of your belief?\n\n\nWhite supremists and Neo-Nazis are NOT any brand of Christian.\n\n\"If you hate your whom you can see then how can you love God whom you cannot\n see?\"\n\nWhat does this belief entail? Believing in Christ and having your sins\nforgiven in His name does NOT give a Christian a free licence to sin. To\nrepent of a sin is to ask forgiveness of that sin and TRY NOT to do it\nagain. I am a Christian, but if you lump me in with racists and accuse me\nof being such, then are you not pre-judging me? BTW, I am of Chinese racial\nbackground and I know what it is to be part of a visible minority in this\ncountry. I don't think that I would be favourably looked upon by these\nWhite supremist \"Christians\" as you call them.\n\nAnyone can say what they believe, but if they don't practice what they preach,\nthen their belief is false. Do you concur?\n \n\nNazis and racists in general are the ones that come to my immediate attention.\nWhat I believe is that such people may be using the bible to mask their racial\nintolerance and bigotry. They can do as they do and hide behind Christianity\nbut I tell you that Jesus would have nothing to do with them.\n\n\nNo arguement there.\n\n\nThe only point I'm trying to make is that those who call themselves Christian\nmay not be Christian. I ask that you draw your own conclusions by what they\ndo and what they say. If they are not modelled after the example of Jesus\nChrist then they are NOT Christian. If they have not repented of their sins\nand accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Saviour then they are \nNOT Christian. These are the only criteria to being a Christian.\n\nMay God be with you,", "\n\n\nIt is not a question of an individuals standing. When a party puts up an\nArab for a Cabinet post and that Arab is rejected but the position is given\nto a Jew from the same party we are not talking about power but racism.\nWould you care to deny this has happened on several occasions with Labour\ncoalitions?\n\n\nNot their party - them as *individuals*. Even when they belong to nice\npeaceful Zionist mainstream parties they are not welcome. Arabs are\nexcluded on ficitious security grounds which are just an excuse. It\nsure looks like racism to me.\n\nArabs are excluded from cabinet, even when they do the things you\nsuggest, because they are Arabs. Unless of course you have a better\nreason? I am happy to listen to any good reason why a leftist Jew\nis less of a security risk than a leftist Arab from the same party.\nLook at the present cabinet.\n\nJoseph Askew\n", "\n\n\nI have no idea what this guy means but the Syrian Jews are not allowed\nto leave Syria because Assad welshed on his promise and is not letting\nthem go. Israel has nothing to do with it.\n\nAs for the other Arab countries there are still small communities left\nin some Arab countries. Morocco has the largest group I think comprising\nperhaps just over a thousand (but I have lost the exact figure. Maybe\nsomeone will be so kind as to post it). There are communities left in\nYemen (which went to the polls yesterday in what might appear to be a\nfree-ish election), Algeria (this is a tiny group, a couple of leftist\nintellectuals I think), of course Syria and Lebannon.\n\nThe circumstances of the departure of the Jews from various Arab countries\nis controversial in some cases - like Iraq - and I do not want to get into\na dispute about it. Egypt expelled most of its community outright. Most of\nthe French North African Jews left rather than face Independence. I think\nthat Moroccans might have been encouraged by some AntiSemitic acts but I\nam not sure. Someone else around here will know for sure. There are claims\nthat Israeli intellegence officers spread rumours around Algeria that the\nJews would not be welcome but this is probably just propaganda. It would\ntake a very stupid person not to realise the benefits of a move to France\n(as most did) or to Israel. Yemeni Jews were airlifted to Israel. Those\nleft were rumoured to have another airlift last year but I heard nothing\nabout it so I guess it was just a rumour. Any I left out except Iraq?\n\nJoseph Askew\n", "\nWhat is this \"Gaza\"? Are you purposely separating it from the \"West Bank\"?\nIf so, why separate the people and territories? If not, why are you just\naddressing \"Gaza\" here? \n\nBy all means, continue to list the \"etc.\" The reason I particularly\nbring this up here is that there are **many** from middle eastern\nand west asian countries. That fact in itself **adds** an important\nelement to any consideration of \"resolution\" of the Arab-Israel\nconflict.\n\n\nYou explained what \"sea\" meant with regard to the Israelis/jews,\nplease do so in this case.\n\n\n\"Just\"? You better not ask for that because that would mean North \nAmerican tribes would be returned their lands, the pre-Islamic tribes \nwould take back their lands from the Islamic invaders, the Saxons get \nto kick the Normans out of the UK, the central and south american \ntribes get to kick the spanish descendents out of thier lands..... \nAnd, once we have returned the land to those who last possessed it, \nwe have to find out from whom **they** stole it. At some point, *every* \nculture stole the land they are on from previous occupants.\n\n\nBut wait! Now you refer to \"Palestinians\", so what happened to \"Gaza\"?\n\nAs we both know, most people would choose the third alternative. And,\nsince you have done so in the past, perhaps you would initiate things by \npresenting your vision of \"resolution\". In doing so, however, the worries\n(not paranioas, *worries*) and resonable expectations **of both**\nparties should be considered.\n\n", "\nStop! Hold it! You have a few problems here. Official history says that \nthe first accusations of homosexuality in the SA came from OUTSIDE of the Nazi \nparty, long BEFORE the Nazis ever came to power. So this objection is a red\nherring, even if established history is wrong on this point. Moreover, none of \nthe histories I've read ever made mention of Hitler or anyone else ever using \nhomosexuality as a pretext for purging Roehm. A point I saw reiterated was that\nHitler and the party covered up these accusations. If you are going to accuse\nofficial history of being a fabrication, you should at least get your facts\nright. The pretext for purging Roehm was that he was planning to use the SA in\na coup against Hitler. Nowhere is there mention of using allegations of\nhomosexuality as a pretext for the purge, nor as a justification afterwards (it\nis possible that the histories I've read have not mentioned this, but I doubt\nit - would it be in Hitler's best interest to admit to the world that his\nformer right hand man was a homosexual?). \n\nAnyway, as I said before, it is always possible that I have missed references \nto the Nazis making use of charges of homosexuality against the SA after the \nnight of the long knives - but this does not prove that they were false. Even \nthe Nazis could tell the truth when it was to their advantage. In any case, \nthis does not deal with accusations of homosexuality in the SA during the \n1920's.\n\n\nAh, yes. I forgot this was being posted to alt.conspiracy. I can smell the\nparanoia from here. Since the Nazis never officially charged Roehm with \nhomosexuality (at least, not according to what I've read), I'd like to know \nwhat tainted \"evidence\" you are talking about. Since the accusations were made \nby persons outside of the Nazi party, long before it came to power, and those \naccusations were common knowledge to journalists and others in Germany in the \n1920's and 30's, just how would it be possible for the Nazis to go back in \ntime and plant \"tainted\" evidence? How exactly does one doctor newspapers \nwhich were circulated around the world, without the discrepancies being \nobvious? What actual incidences of Nazi doctoring evidence on this matter\ndo you know about? And what about the testimony of people who were involved in \nthese matters, some of whom were not Nazis? And what is the point of making a \nfalse accusation of homosexuality if you do not publicize it? Since the point \nhere seems to be to discredit established history, then the burden of proof \nfalls on the revisionist. The revisionists had better do their homework \nbefore making accusations. Otherwise they simply look like conspiracy nuts.\n\n\nThis is just about the *only* thing we agree on. \n\nI suspect that the notion that there might have been bad people - Roehm and \nhis SA buddies - who were homosexuals must disturb some people. The feeling\nseems to be that if a nasty individual is accused of homosexuality, that this\nmust be an attempt to bash homosexuals. This fear - often justified - is what\nlies behind this distrust of official history, or so it seems to me. But this\nis not a good justification for trashing accepted accounts of this subject. If \nyou really think that historians are so incompetent, why don't you write them \nand ask where they got their sources on this subject, if you can't tell from \ntheir footnotes? I'm a graduate student in history. Writing to professors and\ntracking down sources is old hat. But my time is limited and this is not my\nspecialty - and neither you nor anyone else have said anything that would\ncast one shred of doubt on existing evidence. I'm not going to waste my time\ntrying to debunk someone's paranoia. Do the research yourself.\n\n\nGiven that you already consider all evidence \"tainted\", what on earth would\nconstitute concrete particulars? And since when have concrete particulars been\nconsidered \"shrewd guesses\"?\n\nI suggest that those who do not trust popular historians (Irving et al) -\nhistorians writing for a popular audience do not, as a rule, provide copious \nfootnotes - should try instead reading academic historians, who usually \nprovide footnotes to all their sources in immmense detail. This is the place \nto start looking. Assuming that one really wants to know the truth.\n\nI'll bet the folks on alt.pagan are tired of this subject already. My\napologies - we seem to have gone off on a bit of a tangent. I forget which gods\nare responsible for keeping strings within appropriate newsgroup subject\nboundaries...", "Elias Davidsson writes...\n \n \nED> The following are quotations from Zionist leaders. They appear in\nED> numerous scholarly works dealing with the Palestine question. I urge those\nED> who have access to original sources, to verify the authenticity of the\nED> source and post here their finding, adhering to the truth whatever it be.\n\n It is your responsibility for posting quotes in context. Your\n phony 'research center' is the source of the most unscholarly,\n out-of-context, agenda-ridden, and sophmoric propaganda that I\n have ever seen. Don't believe me, folks? Let's take a little\n stroll through a few of Elias Davidsson's contributions to our \n understanding of the middle east.\n \nED> Quotations from Zionist leaders\n\nED> 1. \"There was no such thing as Palestinians\"\nED> (Golda Meir, Prime Minister of Israel, London Sunday \nED> Times, 15 June 1969)\n\n And what do suggest that she meant by this? Do you think she\n meant that the Palestinians don't exist? Or does it actually\n mean that the people who self-identify as 'Palestinians,' did\n not appear to be a distinct ethnic group in the eyes of Golda\n Meir? \n\n\nED> 2. \"There is, however, a difficulty from which the Zionist \nED> dares not avert his eyes, though he rarely likes to face it. \nED> Palestine proper has already its inhabitants.\"\nED> (Israel Zangwill, The Voice of Jerusalem, London 1920, \nED> p.88)\n\n When this was written, seventy three years ago, the people of\n the region were not all Jews. They are not all Jews now. No\n Jew but the most rabid bigot has ever called for an Israel to\n be ONLY for Jews. That was true then. It is true now. \n\n\nED> \"[The Palestinians are] beasts walking on two legs.\"\nED> (Menachem Begin, Prime Minister of Israel in a speech to \nED> the Knesset,\nED> quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, 'Begin and the \"Beasts\", New \nED> Statesman, 25 June 1982)\n\n Since you inserted the words 'The Palestinians are' we cannot\n know what Begin was talking about. \n \n For someone who wants to embellish his own importance with an \n absurd pseudo-organizational name like the 'Center for Policy\n Research,' you are not a very honest person. \n\n\nED> \"Both the process of expropriation [of the Palestinians] \nED> and the removal of the poor must be carried out \nED> discreetly and circumspectly\".\nED> (Dr. Theodor Herzl, The Complete Diaries, Herzl Press, \nED> 1960, I., p.88)\n\n Herzl died eighty nine years ago. Are you suggesting that he\n has stated what is Israel's policy today? Have you ever seen\n Israel even entertain a policy to exclude non-Jews, let alone \n actually try to remove non-Jews from Israel? If you actually \n believe that this quote has anything to do with Israel's non-\n Jewish citizenry today, you are an idiot. But if you realize\n that Israel has no intention of removing non-Jewish Israelis,\n then you are nothing but a common liar. This one time I will \n give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you are stupid. \n\n \nED> \"We shall try to spirit the penniless population [the \nED> Palestinians] across the border by procuring employment \nED> for it in the transit countries, while denying it any \nED> employment in our own country\"\nED> (Theodor Herzl, The Complete Diaries, Herzl Press, 1960, \nED> I, p.88)\n\n Once again you quote a man gone for almost a century. You do\n so within the context of modern day Israel. \n \n Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. How does this fact define the\n United States today?\n\n\nED> \"[Jews] must expel Arabs and take their place\" \nED> (David Ben Gurion, 1937, quoted in Shabtai Teveth, Ben \nED> Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, \nED> 1985, p. 89)\n\n Did he say 'Jews,' or did you add this?\n \n This was also a statement from ten years before Israel became\n a state. It has no bearing on Israel. \n \n\nED> \"We must do everything to ensure they [the \nED> Palestinian refugees] never do return\"\nED> (David Ben Gurion, in his diary, 19 July 1948, quoted in \nED> Michael Bar Zohar, Ben Gurion: The Armed Prophet, \nED> Prentice-Hall, 1967, p.157)\n\n YOU added the words 'the Palestinian refugees.' And by doing\n so, you are misleading people into believing that Ben Gurion,\n who was expressing his hope that people who fled their lands,\n at the encouragement of people such as KING ABDULLAH, and the \n MUFTI OF JERUSALEM, was gloating over people abandoning their\n homes. What he was refering to were the Arabs with whom Jews\n were at war. \n\nED> \"The country was mostly an empty desert, with only \nED> a few islands of Arab settlement\"\nED> (Shimon Peres, Minister of Defense, quoted in David's \nED> Sling: The Arming of Israel, Weidenfeld and Nicholson, \nED> 1970, p.249)\n\n At the time of the rebirth of Israel this was certainly true,\n especially when compared to what Israel has accomplished in a\n few short decades.\n\n\nED> \"All this story about the danger of extermination [of \nED> Jews] has been blown up....to justify the annexation of \nED> new Arab territories\"\nED> (Mordechai Bentov, Israeli Cabinet Minister, Al \nED> Hamishmar, 14 April 1972)\n\n Since Israel has not annexed even one millimeter of territory \n in more twenty six years, this quote is irrelevant. \n\n\nED> \"Neither Jewish ethics nor Jewish tradition can \nED> disqualify terrorism as a means of combat\"\nED> (Yitzhak Shamir, Hehazit, Summer 1943 [Journal of the \nED> LEHI, the Stern Gang], translated from the Israeli daily \nED> Al-Hamishmar, 24 December 1987\n\n Again, you are quoting a man who was fighting for what he had\n been promised from a time as ancient as biblical, to the time\n of the Balfour Declaration, just a few short years back. And\n what was thought of and described as terrorism by Jews didn't\n include slaughtering Olympic athletes, brutally murdering the \n innocent, attacking school buses, and murdering another human \n being for the sole reason that he or she is an Arab.\n \n \nED> \"The domination of Jewish agriculture by Arab \nED> workers is a cancer in our body\"\nED> (A. Uzan, Israeli Minister of Agriculture, Ha'aretz, 13 \nED> December 1974)\n\n There were serious concerns about a work force that consisted \n of people from OUTSIDE Israel. It is a wise to be concerned.\n A work force consisting of foreigners is not a good situation\n for a country.\n\n\nED> \"There can be only one national home in Palestine, \nED> and that a Jewish one, and no equality in the partnership \nED> between Jews and Arabs\"\nED> (Montague David Eder, President of the Zionist \nED> Federation of Great Britain, 1931,\nED> in Doreen Ingrams, comp., Palestine Papers 1917-1922, \nED> Seeds of Conflict, George Braziller, 1973, p. 135)\n\n This also has no meaning for a country formed seventeen years\n after this statement was made. Obviously times change. This\n is NOT what Israel is about today. I believe the peace talks\n make this quote irrelevant.\n\n\nED> \"There is not a single Jewish village in this country \nED> that has not been built on the site of an Arab village\"\nED> (Moshe Dayan, Ha'aretz, 4 April 1969...)\n\n This is completely false.\n\n\nED> \"Some people talk of expelling 700,000 to 800,000 \nED> Arabs in the event of a new war, and instruments have \nED> been prepared\"\nED> (Aharon Yariv, former chief of Israeli military \nED> intelligence, 1980, Inquiry, 8 December 1980)\n\n Expelled from where? Israel? The occupied territories? New\n Jersey? Is there any way we can read this and get an idea as\n to what on earth he was talking about. Obviously not.\n\n \nED> \"We should there [in Palestine] form a portion of the \nED> rampart of Europe against Asia, an outpost of civilization \nED> as opposed to barbarism.\"\nED> (Dr. Theodor Herzl, The Jewish State, London, 1896, p. \nED> 29)\n\n Interesting notion. Considering that this was written nearly\n a century ago, it is quite visionary.\n\n\nED> \"I deeply believe in launching preventive war \nED> against the Arab States without further hesitation. By \nED> doing so we will achieve two targets: firstly, the \nED> annihilation of Arab power; and secondly, the expansion \nED> of our territory\"\nED> (Menachem Begin, in a speech to the Knesset, 12 October \nED> 1955)\n\n This was said nearly forty years ago. Begin is dead. And it\n should be obvious to anybody that if Israel was expansionist,\n it would have ANNEXED the occupied territories right after it\n captured them. Israel would not be negotiating to get rid of\n them.\n\n\nED> \"During the last 100 years our people have been in a \nED> process of building up the country and the nation, of \nED> expansion, of getting additional Jews and additional \nED> settlements in order to expand the borders here. Let no \nED> Jew say that the process has ended. Let no Jew say that \nED> we are near the end of the road.\"\nED> (Moshe Dayan, Ma'ariv, 7 July 1968)\n\n He's dead, too. And since Israel has not annexed ANY land at \n all since 1967, you are once again wasting bandwidth with all\n of these misleading quotes. They are so out of sync with the\n reality of Israel, that you do nothing but make yourself look\n like a fanatic desperate to sway people, by misleading them.\n\n\nED> \"Let us not today fling accusations at the [Palestinian \nED> Arab] murderers. Who are we that we should argue \nED> against their hatred ? For eight years now they sit in \nED> their refugee camps in Gaza, and before their very eyes, \nED> we turn into our homestead the land and the villages in \nED> which they and their forefathers have lived. We are a \nED> generation of settlers, and without the steel helmet and \nED> the cannon we cannot plant a tree and build a home. Let \nED> us not shrink back when we see the hatred fermenting \nED> and filling the lives of hundreds of thousands of Arabs, \nED> who sit all around us. Let us not avert our gaze, so that \nED> our hand shall not slip. This is the fate of our generation, \nED> the choice of our life - to be prepared and armed, strong \nED> and tough - or otherwise, the sword will slip from our \nED> first, and our life will be snuffed out.\"\nED> (Moshe Dayan, eulogy of Roy Rutenberg at Kibbutz Nahal \nED> Oz, 1956, quoted in Uri Avneri, Israel without Zionists, \nCollier Books, Macmillan, New York, 1971, p.154)\n\n Interesting quote. It's true that we should never lose sight\n of the plight of these people. We should also recognize that\n this quote preceded the disgusting wave of Arab terrorism and\n violence directed at innocent people, that began in 1972 with \n the massacre of the Israeli athletes in Munich, and continues \n to this day.", "\nOf all the stupid postings you've brought here recently, it is\nilluminating that you chose to put your own name on perhaps the\nstupidest of them.\n\n\nDoes this mean that you are calling for the dismantling of the Arab\nstates? \n\n\nApparently, your answer is yes.\n\n\nAttempts to solve these problem by traditional military means and\nnon-traditional terrorist means has also failed. But that won't stop\nthem from trying again. After all, it IS a Holy War, you know.... \n\n\n\"No just solution possible.\" How very encouraging.\n\n\nYou mean that it gets even funnier?\n\n[...]\n\nNo, the Fund should be financed by the Center for Policy Research. It\nIS a major organization, isn't it? Isn't it?\n\n\nYeah, just like marriages among Arabs has strengthened their\nsocieties. \n\n\nThe world could do with a bit less Middle Eastern \"grace\".\n\n\nBoy, you're a one-man band. Listen, if you'd like to Followup on your\nown postings and debate with yourself, just tell us and we'll leave\nyou alone.\n", "# \n# >> I am not aware of any such incidents. \n# >\n# >\n# >> I've read most of the history books dealing with this period,\n# >> good and bad, and while it is possible that I missed one or two,\n# >> none of those I've read documents any razing of mosques. So I\n# >> think that this remarkable claim requires specific documentation.\n# >\n# >For the forgetful newcomers, here are the references.\n# >\n# >The reference I based my posting on originally is the book \"The West\n# >Bank Story\", by Rafik Halabi (New York: Harcourt Brace Jovanovich\n# >1982. Original title: Die Westbank Story). \n# >\n# >Quoting from The West Bank Story, pages 35-36:\n# >\"On the night of June 10, an Israeli officer marched from door to door\n# >through the Moghrabi Quarter [of East Jerusalem] giving the residents\n# >three hours' notice to evacuate their homes. \n# >\n# >... [The participants in a\n# >July 24, 1967 meeting of a group of Arab relgious and political\n# >figures] protested the immodest dress of Israelis visiting the mosques\n# >and the destruction of two mosques in the Moghrabi Quarter adjacent to\n# >the Western Wall.\"\n# \n# This issue has been going on for a while and your presentation here of\n# just one reference probably won't resolve this issue to those that\n# oppose your insistence that mosques *were* destroyed. Even in your\n# location of this one reference, you spend most of your quote dealing\n# with an incidence that, while abhorrant, has nothing to do with the \n# issue at hand here. Then, at the end of the quote, there is an almost\n# off-hand comment that \"two mosques\" were destroyed.\n\n Tim, you're missing the big sleight-of-hand here. I can accept every\n word quoted from Halabi and still have ZERO evidence of any mosques\n being razed. Note that what Halabi refers to is not that mosques\n were razed but that people PROTESTED alleged razing. Too well we\n know that this is a common demagogic tactic (or has anyone forgotten\n the Temple Mount riots, when the Moslem crowd was led to believe\n that the Israeli Guards were there to cover for the TMF instead of\n stop them?)", "\nA lot of people won't agree with me. That's their right and I respect that.\nHowever, to the point, Jews are also covered by the saving grace of Jesus\nChrist. There are Jews who have become Christians.", "\nI asked some simple questions at different occations. I don't understand why\nsome people insulted me for those SIMPLE questions!\nAnyway, I didn't reply to them with the same language and I won't, because\n\n1. There is no need\n2. There is no benefit \n3. I don't have time to reply to those garbages\n\nBy the way, do you want to know who am I? I am not a NATIONALIST Arab of 1967.\n I am not a COMONIST Arab of 70's. Are you sure that you want to hear\n my name? I am a MUSLIM FIGHTER. I am the same child who \nfight with your armed soldier with stone! I am the same guy who wants to \nbring JUSTICE to Palestine, I am the same fighter who wants to kicked Israel\nout of south Lebonon in the same way of the 1982. I am the son of KHOMEINI.\nI am honored to be a HEZBULLAH.... Don't you know me!!!? Just ask Rabin\nhe knows me! \n\nHamid\n", "In a previous article, sadek@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (mohamed.s.sa \n\nMohamed,\n\nWhat has he got to say about the carnage and genocide in our own SUDAN?\nThe two scenarios must be viewed from the same perspective or don't you\nthink so? well, methinks. no flames intended!!!\n\noguocha\n\n\n\n", " [snip]\n In the first place the death of three soldiers on a patrol in occupied\n Lebanese terrritory is NOT an act of terrorism or murder. It is \n disingeneous to compare their death to that of athletes in Munich\n or any other act of terrorism or mrder. This exercise is aimed \n solely at diverting the issue and is far from the truth.\n\nI agree that the death of three soldiers on a patrol etc... is\nnot terrorism. That having been said, lets continue.\n\n [snip]\n imagine ???? It is NOT a \"terrorist camp\" as you and the Israelis like \n to view the villages they are small communities with kids playing soccer\n in the streets, women preparing lunch, men playing cards, etc.....\n\nI would not argue that all or even most of the villages are \"terrorist\ncamps\". There are however some which come very close to serving that\npurpose and that is not to say that other did not function in that way\nprior to the invasion. \n\n SOME young men, usually aged between 17 to 30 years are members of\n the Lebanese resistance. Even the inhabitants of the village do not \n know who these are, they are secretive about it, but most people often\n suspect who they are and what they are up to. These young men are\n supported financially by Iran most of the time. They sneak arms and\n ammunitions into the occupied zone where they set up booby traps\n for Israeli patrols. Every time an Israeli soldier is killed or injured\n by these traps, Israel retalliates by indiscriminately bombing villages\n of their own choosing often killing only innocent civilians. Once they\n are back they announce that they bombed a \"terrorist hideout\" where\n an 8 year old girl just happened to be.\n\nSome of the villages, and yours might well be among them, are as you\ndescribe. Not all are. There are a large number of groups in the area,\nbacked by various organizations, with a wide range of purposes. Hizbollah\nand Amal were two of the larger ones and may still be. As to retaliation,\nwhile mistakes may be made, that is still a far cry from indiscriminate\nbombing, which would have produced major casualties.\n\n Israel's retalliation policy is cold hearted, but a reality that\n we have come to accept and deal with, the Lebanese Resistance\n on the other hand is not going to stop its attacks on OCCUPYING \n ISRAELI SOLDIERS until they withdraw, this is the only real \n leverage that they have to force Israel to withdraw.\n\nWell, here we disagree. I think that Israel would willingly withdraw if\nthe Lebanese gov't was able to field a reliable force in the area to police\nit and prevent further attacks.\n\n This is the only realistic solution, it is time for Israel to\n realize that the concept of a \"buffer zone\" aimed at protecting\n its northern cities has failed. In fact it has caused much more\n Israeli deaths than the occasional shelling of Northern Israel\n would have resulted in. \n\nActually that is not clear at all. I will agree that the death toll is no\nlonger civilian and now primarily military though.\n\n There seems to be very little incentive for the Syrian and Lebanese\n goovernment to allow Hizbollah to bomb Israel proper under such \n circumstances, and now the Lebanese government has proven that it is\n capable of controlling and disarming all militias as they did\n in all other parts of Lebanon.\n\nNo, the Syrian gov't is more than happy to have Israel sink into another\nLebanese morass. I could elaborate if necessary.\n\n I agree, only in the case of the Isareli soldiers their killing\n CANNOT be qualified as murder, no matter what you say.\n\nNo, but it is regretable, as is the whole situation.\n", "\nThis is a very impotant update, I will omit just a few lines, and add\nsome \"overhead\" for the sake of the copyright :-)\n\nI say despite all the bad news for Muslims around the world, things are\nshaping up very well, a lot of killings might happen in the near future,\nthough (as if Bosnia is not a lot).\nRight now, I feel like saying what Martillo said : \"the stage is set\".\nI don't think that things will be the same in ten year, \nOn the pessimistic/realistic side, we can only see the stage set for more\nwars imposed on our people, and governments being remote controlled.\nto fight each other and to oppress their own people, but I am confident\nthey will all fall:\nI venture to list the order: Sudan/Yemen alliance, Algeria/Libya in 5 years,\nTunisia one year later but Egypt may face direct colonization very soon to\nprevent an Islamic government which might take over after Egypt attacks \nSUdan and is envolved in atrocities there as it fails to achieve\nvictory. Meanwhile Saudia faces a civil war and goes to war \nwith Yemen/Sudan over it, The new North African \nAlliance (Algeria/Tun/Libya) goes to war with Morocco who attacks it.\nU.S/France involved everywhere but cannot concentrate on one place, \nespecially that Syria/Jordan/Iraq have to be kept under control.\n\nAfter the cloud clears, I do not know what the end result will be,\n\nO.K back to reality:\n\n \tCAIRO, Egypt (UPI) -- The Cairo-based Arab Organization for Human\n Rights (AOHR) Sunday called on King Fahd of Saudi Arabia to order the\n release of members of the kingdom's first human rights group.", "I understand how israel captured the teritory and feels that it\nis its right to annex it. I can't fully understand why it has\nto deal with palestinians much the same way jews were treated\nbefore the holocaust (the Final Solution) by Hitler. What I\ntotally don't get is why the U.S. has to subsidize the\nexistance of such a thorough abuser of human rights.\n\t\t\t\tJust wondering\n", "The following was posted and no doubt retyped by Yigal Ahrens and considering \n the importance of the issue and the almost total blackout except in \n California, I am reposting to other appropriates groups.\n \n \n \n From LA Times, Friday, April 9, 1993. P. A1.\n \n EVIDENCE OF ADL SPY OPERATION SEIZED BY POLICE\n \n By Richard C. Paddock, Times staff writer\n \n SAN FRANCISCO -- Police on Thursday served search warrants on the\n Anti-Defamation League here and in Los Angeles, seizing evidence of a\n nationwide intelligence network accused of keeping files on more than\n 950 political groups, newspapers and labor unions and as many as\n 12,000 people.\n \n Describing the spy operation in great detail, San Francisco\n authorities simultaneously released voluminous documents telling how\n operatives of the Anti-Defamation League searched through trash and\n infiltrated organizations to gather intelligence on Arab-American,\n right-wing and what they called \"pinko\" organizations.\n \n Representatives of the Anti-Defamation League, a well-known\n organization in the U.S. Jewish community dedicated to fighting\n anti-Semitism, declined detailed comment Thursday but denied breaking\n any laws.\n \n Police allege that the organization maintains undercover operatives to\n gather political intelligence in at least seven cities, including Los\n Angeles and San Francisco.\n \n Groups that were the focus of the spy operation span the political\n spectrum, including such groups as the Ku Klux Klan, the White Aryan\n Resistance, Operation Rescue, Greenpeace, the National Assn. for the\n Advancement of Colored People, the United Farm Workers and the Jewish\n Defense League. Also on the list were Mills College, the board of\n directors of San Francisco public television station KQED and the San\n Francisco Bay Guardian newspaper.\n \n People who were subjects of the spy operation included former\n Republican Rep. Pete McCloskey, jailed political extremist Lyndon H.\n LaRouche and Los Angeles Times foreign correspondent Scott Kraft, who\n is based in South Africa.\n \n Authorities said much of the material collected by the groups was\n confidential information obtained illegally from law enforcement\n agencies. They also alleged that data on some individuals and\n organizations was sold separately to the South African government.\n \n In addition to allegations of obtaining confidential information from\n police, the Anti-Defamation League could face a total of 48 felony\n counts for not properly reporting the employment of its chief West\n Coast spy, Roy Bullock, according to the affidavit filed to justify\n the search warrant.\n \n The Anti-Defamation League disguised payments to Bullock for more than\n 25 years by funneling $550 a week to Beverly Hills attorney Bruce I.\n Hochman, who then paid Bullock, according to the documents released in\n San Francisco. Hochman, a former president of the Jewish Federation\n Council of Greater Los Angeles and one of the state's leading tax\n attorneys, will be out of the city until late next week and could not\n be reached for comment, his office said.\n \n Until 1990, Hochman, a former U.S. prosecutor, also was a member of a\n panel appointed by then-Sen. Pete Wilson to secretly make initial\n recommendations on new federal judges in California. Hochman is a\n former regional president of the Anti-Defamation League.\n \n The league, which initially cooperated with police, has denied\n repeatedly that its intelligence-gathering operation broke any laws.\n League officials will not confirm or deny whether Bullock was an\n employee and have said they simply traded information with police\n departments about people who might be involved in hate crimes.\n \n But in an affidavit filed to obtain warrants for Thursday's searches,\n San Francisco police alleged that \"ADL employees were apparently less\n than truthful\" in providing information during an earlier search\n conducted without a warrant.\n \n David Lehrer, executive director of the Los Angeles ADL office, said\n the organization has not violated the law. \"There is nothing\n nefarious about how we operate or what we have done,\" he said. \"Our\n record speaks for itself.\"\n \n The police affidavit contends that Lehrer had sole control of a secret\n fund used to pay for \"fact-finding operations.\" Lehrer, according to\n the documents, signed checks from the account under the name L.\n Patterson.\n \n An ADL official said the account was used to pay for subscriptions to\n a wide variety of extremist publications that might balk at sending\n them directly to the Anti-Defamation League.\n \n Bullock, 58, who has been collecting intelligence for the ADL for\n nearly 40 years, defended his efforts during a lengthy interview with\n San Francisco police. He said that he gathered names from many\n sources and entered them into his computer under headings such as\n \"Skins\" and \"Pinkos,\" but that did not necessarily mean that they were\n under surveillance.\n \n \"I might never see or call up on 99% of them again,\" Bullock said.\n \"And it doesn't mean anything that they're in the files. It's not a\n threat to anyone's civil rights that a name appears in my files under,\n say, 'Pinko.'\"\n \n In recent years, Bullock worked closely with San Francisco Police\n Officer Tom Gerard, who fled to the Phillippines last fall after he\n was questioned by the FBI in the case.\n \n A former CIA employee, Gerard supplied Bullock with criminal records\n and Department of Motor Vehicles information such as home addresses,\n vehicle registration, physical characteristics and drivers license\n photographs.\n \n Using files gathered for the Anti-Defamation League, Gerard and\n Bullock also provided information to the South African government,\n receiving $16,000 over four years, the documents show.\n \n The file on Times staff writer Kraft, which was apparently sold to the\n South African government, provides some insight into the hit-and-miss\n nature of the spy operation.\n \n The file notes that Kraft's articles \"appear frequently in The Times\n and are well researched and written,\" but little else about the file\n is accurate. The brief entry confuses The Times' Kraft with another\n Scott Kraft and provides the South African government with the wrong\n Kraft's physical description, photograph and other personal\n information.\n \n Nevertheless, the documents provide illuminating details of how\n Bullock for decades infiltrated all manner of organizations, from\n skinheads to left-wing radicals, searching regularly through the trash\n of target groups. Using Anti-Defamation League funds, he also ran his\n own paid informants under code names such as \"Scott\" and \"Scumbag.\"\n \n He worked closely with police officers up and down the coast,\n exchanged information with the FBI and worked with federal agencies,\n including the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.\n \n It was Bullock's work as a paid informant for the FBI -- while spying\n on behalf of the Anti-Defamation League and the South African\n government -- that proved his undoing. The FBI learned that he was an\n agent of a foreign government and began investigating, leading to the\n probe of the Anti-Defamation League's intelligence network. The\n Anti-Defamation League employed undercover operatives to gather\n information in Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York, Washington,\n Chicago, St. Louis and Atlanta, according to the affidavit and\n investigators. Joining San Francisco police in searching league\n offices and a Los Angeles bank were investigators from the office of\n San Francisco Dist. Atty. Arlo Smith and the state Franchise Tax\n Board. The Los Angeles Police Department, which earlier refused to\n cooperate with the investigation, was informed of the searches in Los\n Angeles but not invited to participate. Investigators suspect that\n some confidential information in the Anti-Defamation League files may\n have come from Los Angeles police officers.\n \n \n \n From Los Angeles Times, Saturday, April 10, 1993. P. A23.\n \n ADL VOWS TO COOPERATE WITH SPY INVESTIGATION\n \n By Richard C. Paddock, Times staff writer.\n \n SAN FRANCISCO -- The Anti-Defamation League defended its record as a\n civil rights group Friday and said it will cooperate with authorities\n who are investigating whether the organization collected confidential\n police information on citizens and groups.\n \n But San Francisco Dist. Atty. Arlo Smith said that Anti-Defamation\n League employees involved in intelligence gathering could face many\n felony counts of receiving confidential files, eavesdropping, tax\n violations and conspiracy.\n \n Police have accused the Anti-Defamation League of not being truthful\n about its spying operations, which collected information on more than\n 12,000 individuals and 950 political groups across the political\n spectrum.\n \n Hundreds of pages of documents released by prosecutors Thursday show\n that the ADL maintained a nationwide intelligence network and kept\n files on political figures.\n \n Even so, Smith suggested that if the Anti-Defamation League shut down\n its spy operation, prosecutors would take that into account when\n deciding what charges to file.\n \n In a statement released in Washington, National Director Abraham H.\n Foxman described the ADL as \"a Jewish defense agency which has fought\n to protect all minorities from bigotry and discrimination for 80\n years.\"\n \n Foxman said the organization is regarded as a credible source on\n extremist groups and has a tradition of routinely providing\n information to police, journalists, academics, government officials\n and the public. It has never been the policy of the ADL to obtain\n information illegally, he said.\n \n \"Like other journalists, in order to protect the confidentiality and\n physical safety of its sources, ADL will not comment on the nature or\n identity of any source of information,\" Foxman said.\n \n The Anti-Defamation League refused to acknowledge that one of its\n longtime employees, Roy Bullock, was anything more than \"a private\n individual who is alleged to be an ADL 'informant.'\"\n \n Among the documents released by prosecutors were detailed statements\n showing how the ADL funneled weekly payments to Bullock through\n Beverly Hills attorney Bruce I. Hochman.\n \n \"Roy would penetrate organizations and needed this arrangement to be\n distanced from ADL,\" Hochman told a San Francisco police investigator.\n Hochman could not be reached Friday at his home or office for comment.\n \n Despite the Anti-Defamation League's assertion that it will cooperate\n with authorities, San Francisco police said the group did not turn\n over all pertinent documents during a voluntary search of the group's\n offices in Los Angeles and San Francisco last fall.\n \n A second round of searches Thursday, this time with search warrants,\n produced a vast quantity of records, primarily dealing with financial\n transactions, Smith said. Further searches may be necessary and it\n will be at least a month before any charges are filed, he said.\n \n \"The investigation, of course, will go wherever the facts lead us,\"\n the district attorney said.", "...\n\n\tBefore or after his kids were shot?\n\n\n\tThen why make the comment?\n\n\n\tAs did the Jews against the Nazis in WW II: do what I say or die.\n\n\n\n\tALl humans, I hope.\n\n\n\tOr perhaps they have: kill first, blame the dead ones,\n\tdestroy all the evidence.\n", "I think there are some generally accepted criteria according to which\none can evaluate whether certain policies or practices constitute\nracial discrimination. These criteria are to be found for example in the\n1. International Convention for Abolition of All Forms of Racial\n Discrimination (ratified by most countries)\n2. The International Covenant of Political and Civil Rights\n3. The Human Rights Charter\n4. The European Convention of Human Rights\n\nIf one reads carefully how racial discrimination is defined in these\nlegally binding instruments, and does not resort to sophistry, it is\nobvious that the State of Israel is guilty of racial discrimination.\n\n\nThe people suffering the most extreme form of racial discriminatnion\nby the Zionist regime are the Palestinian refugees, some of whom live\nunder Israeli military control and others who live in the diaspora.\n\nThey are not entitled to return to their homeland for the sole\nreason that they are not Jews. International law does not include any\nprovisions which permits such denial of rights, under any circumstance.\nIsrael's actions of denial are totally illegal and immoral. By allowing\nthe return of the refugees and permitting them to settle in Tel in any area of\nthe State of Israel, the State would finally gain its legitimaty under\ninternational law and could be justified in asking to be recognized. It\nwould facilitate the peaceful integration of Israel into the Middle-east\nand constitute the best guarantee for permanent Jewish presence -\nin the area. Any attempt to create a separation, formal and human, between the\nIsraeli Jewish and Palestinian Arab communities, is fraught with\ngenociadal implications. I hope that U.S. Jews, who sincerely wish that\npeace prevail in Israel/Palestine, will finally realize this fact.\n\nElias Davidsson\n", "It is very encouraging that a number of people took so interest in my posting.I recieved a couple of letters too,some has debated the statement that events in Bosnia are unprecedented in the history of the modern world.Those who contest this statement present the figures of the World War II.However we must keep in mind that it was a World War and no country had the POWER to stop it,today is the matter not of the POWER but of the WILL.It\nseems to be that what we lack is the will.\nSecond point of difference (which makes it different from the holocast(sp?) ) is that at that time international community\ndidnot have enough muscle to prevent the unfortunate event,\ntoday inspite of all the might,the international community is not just standing neutral but has placed an arms embargo which\nis to the obvious disadvantage of the weeker side and therefore to the advantage of the bully.Hence indirecltly and possibly\nunintentionally, mankind has sided with the killers.And this,I think is unprecedented in the history of the modern world.", "\nSize of armies, duration, numbers of casualties both absolute and as a\npercentage of those involved, geographical area and numbers of countries\ntoo, are all measures of size. In this case I'd say the relevant\nstatistic would be the number of combatants (total troops) compared to\ntotal casualties from among the total civilian population in the\naffected geographical area.\n\n\nVietnam and Korea might make good comparisons.\n\n\nWestern news in general, but in particular the American \"mass media\":\nCBS, NBC, ABC, etc. The general tone of the news during the whole\nwar was one of \"those poor, poor Iraqis\" along with \"look how precisely\nthis cruise missile blew this building to bits\".\n\n\nI agree.\n\n\nPerhaps so. And maybe the atomic bomb was a mistake too. But that's easy\nto say from our \"enlightened\" viewpoint here in the 90's, right? Back\nthen, it was *all-out* war, and Germany and Japan had to be squashed.\nAfter all, a million or more British had already died, hundreds of \nthousands of French, a couple hundread thousand or so Americans, and \nmillions of Russians, not to mention a few million Jews, Poles, and \nother people of slavic descent in German concentration camps. All \nthings considered, the fire-bombings and the atomic bomb were\nessential (and therefore justified) in bringing the war to a quick\nend to avoid even greater allied losses.\n\nI, for one, don't regret it.\n\n\nSure. And it's the people who suffer because of them. All the more\nreason to depose these \"entrenched political rulers operating in their\nown selfish interests\"! Or do you mean that this applies to the allies\nas well??\n\n\nI make no claim or effort to justify the misguided foreign policy of the\nWest before the war. It is evident that the West, especially America,\nmisjudged Hussein drastically. But once Hussein invaded Kuwait and \nthreatened to militarily corner a significant portion of the world's\noil supply, he had to be stopped. Sure the war could have been\nprevented by judicious and concerted effort on the part of the West\nbefore Hussein invaded Kuwait, but it is still *Hussein* who is\nresponsible for his decision to invade. And once he did so, a\nstrong response from the West was required.\n\n\nWell, it's not very \"loving\" to allow a Hussein or a Hitler to gobble up\nnearby countries and keep them. Or to allow them to continue with mass\nslaughter of certain peoples under their dominion. So, I'd have to\nsay yes, stopping Hussein was the most \"loving\" thing to do for the\nmost people involved once he set his mind on military conquest.\n\nI mentioned it.\n\nIf we hadn't intervened, allowing Hussein to keep Kuwait, then it would\nhave been appeasement. It is precisely the lessons the world learned\nin WW2 that motivated the Western alliance to war. Letting Hitler take\nAustria and Czechoslavkia did not stop WW2 from happening, and letting\nHussein keep Kuwait would not have stopped an eventual Gulf War to\nprotect Saudi Arabia.\n\n\nSure. What was truly unfortunate was that they followed Hitler in\nhis grandiose quest for a \"Thousand Year Reich\". The consequences\nstemmed from that.\n\nWhat should I say about them? Anything in particular?\n\n\n\nSo? It was the *policemen* on trial not Rodney King!! And under American\nlaw they deserved a jury of *their* peers! If there had been black\nofficers involved, I'm sure their would have been black jurors too.\nThis point (of allegedly racial motivations) is really shallow.\n\n\nSo? It's \"hard to imagine\"? So when has Argument from Incredulity\ngained acceptance from the revered author of \"Constructing a Logical\nArgument\"? Can we expect another revision soon?? :) (Just kidding.)\n\n\nI have to admit that I wonder this too. But *neither* the prosecution\nnor the defense is talking. So one cannot conclude either way due to\nthe silence of the principals. \n\n\nOK. It certainly seemed to me that there was excessive force involved.\nAnd frankly, the original \"not guilty\" verdict baffled me too. But then\nI learned that the prosecution in the first case did not try to convict\non a charge of excessive force or simple assault which they probably\nwould have won, they tried to get a conviction on a charge of aggravated\nassault with intent to inflict serious bodily harm. A charge, which\nnews commentators said, was akin to attempted murder under California\nlaw. Based on what the prosecution was asking for, it's evident that \nthe first jury decided that the officers were \"not guilty\". Note, \nnot \"not guilty\" of doing wrong, but \"not guilty\" of aggravated assault \nwith the *intent* of inflicting serious bodily harm. The seeds of the \nprosecutions defeat were in their own overconfidence in obtaining a \nverdict such that they went for the most extreme charge they could.\n\nIf the facts as the news commentators presented them are true, then\nI feel the \"not guilty\" verdict was a reasonable one.\n\n\nThanks mathew, I like the quote. Pretty funny actually. (I'm a \nMonty Python fan, you know. Kind of seems in that vein.)\n\nOf course, oversimplifying any moral argument can make it seem\ncontradictory. But then, you know that already. \n\nRegards,", "\n\n\nNo, you have completely misunderstood. I was opposed to intervention in\nSomalia for the same reason I am opposed to intervention in Bosnia - there is\nno security interest of the United States there which justifies risking the\nlives of American servicemen, and there are too many crises in the world for us\nto take on all of them. In the case of Bosnia, the risks are obviously much\ngreater, and there are other countries in a much better position and with far\nbetter reasons to take action than the US.\n\n\nYou continue to misunderstand. I did not say the reason why people want to\nintervene is because of racist (<- you seem to be overly fond of using this\nword, btw. I said the phenomenon was race-related, which is not the same as\nracist. Perhaps this distinction is too subtle for you to grasp) motives - I\nsaid the attention and outrage at the entire Yugoslavian situation was a result\nof it being 1) closer to home, 2) happening to people we can identify with, and\n3) relentlessly harped on by the media. I never said anything about which side\nwould be preferred, which has a lot more to do with the presentation of the\nconflict than any psychological factors. I think there is no doubt that despite\nthe fact we intervened in Somalia, the level of attention devoted to there was\nconsiderably less than what is devoted to Bosnia, if the newspapers and tv news\nI see are any guide.\n", "\n\n[After a small refresh Hasan got on the track again.]\n\n\n\n\n |> |> I get the impression Hasan realized he goofed and is now\n |> |> trying to drop the thread. Let him. It might save some\n |> |> miniscule portion of his sorry face.\n\n |> Not really. since i am a logical person who likes furthering himself\n |> from any \"name calling\", i started trashing any article that contains\n |> such abuses without responding to, and sometimes not even reading articles \n |> written by those who acquired such bad habits from bad company!\n |> \n |> Ah, but in my followup on the subject (which you, by the way, never bothered\n |> responding to..) there was no name-calling. Hence the assumption.\n |> Do you feel more up to it now, so that we might have an answer?\n |> Or, to refresh your memory, does the human right issue in the area\n |> apply to Palestinians only? Also, do you claim there is such a thing as \n |> forfeiting a human right? If that's possible, then explain to the rest of \n |> us how there can exist any such thing?\n |> \n |> Use your logic, and convince us! This is your golden chance!\n\n |> Jonas Flygare,\n\n\n well , ok. let's see what Master of Wisdom, Mr. Jonas Flygare,\n wrote that can be wisdomely responded to :\n\nAre you calling names, or giving me a title? If the first, read your \nparagraph above, if not I accept the title, in order to let you get into the\num, well, debate again.\n\n\n\n |> [hasan]\n\n |> |> [flax]\n\n |> |> |> [hasan]\n\n |> |> |> In case you didNOT know, Palestineans were there for 18 months. \n |> |> |> and they are coming back\n |> |> |> when you agree to give Palestineans their HUMAN-RIGHTS.\n\n |> |> |> Afterall, human rights areNOT negotiable.\n\n |> |> |> Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the right to one's life _also_\n |> |> |> a 'human right'?? Or does it only apply to palestinians?\n\n |> |> No. it is EVERYBODY's right. However, when a killer kills, then he is giving\n |> |> up -willingly or unwillingly - his life's right to the society. \n |> |> the society represented by the goverment would exercise its duty by \n |> |> depriving the killer off his life's right.\n\n |> So then it's all right for Israel to kill the people who kill Israelis?\n |> The old 'eye for an eye' thinking? Funny, I thought modern legal systems\n |> were made to counter exactly that.\n\n So what do you expect me to tell you to tell you, Master of Wsidom, \n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t ^^^\n------------------------------------------------------------------\nIf you insist on giving me names/titles I did not ask for you could at\nleast spell them correctly. /sigh.\n\n when you are intentionally neglecting the MOST important fact that \n the whole israeli presence in the occupied territories is ILLEGITIMATE, \n and hence ALL their actions, their courts, their laws are illegitimate on \n the ground of occupied territories.\n\nNo, I am _not_ neglecting that, I'm merely asking you whether the existance\nof Israeli citicens in the WB or in Gaza invalidates those individuals right\nto live, a (as you so eloquently put it) human right. We can get back to the \nquestion of which law should be used in the territories later. Also, you have \nnot adressed my question if the israelis also have human rights.\n\n What do you expect me to tell you, Master of Wisdom, when I did explain my\n point in the post, that you \"responded to\". The point is that since Israel \n is occupying then it is automatically depriving itself from some of its rights \n to the Occupied Palestineans, which is exactly similar the automatic \n deprivation of a killer from his right of life to the society.\n\nIf a state can deprive all it's citizens of human rights by its actions, then \ntell me why _any_ human living today should have any rights at all?\n\n |> |> In conjugtion with the above, when a group of people occupies others \n |> |> territories and rule them by force, then this group would be -willingly or \n |> |> unwillingly- deprived from some of its rights. \n\n |> Such as the right to live? That's nice. The swedish government is a group\n |> of people that rule me by force. Does that give me the right to kill\n |> them?\n\n Do you consider yourself that you have posed a worthy question here ?\n\nWorthy or not, I was just applying your logic to a related problem.\nAm I to assume you admit it wouldn't hold?\n\n |> |> What kind of rights and how much would be deprived is another issue?\n |> |> The answer is to be found in a certain system such as International law,\n |> |> US law, Israeli law ,...\n\n |> And now it's very convenient to start using the legal system to prove a \n |> point.. Excuse me while I throw up.\n\n ok, Master of Wisdom is throwing up. \n You people stay away from the screen while he is doing it !\n\nOh did you too watch that comedy where they pipe water through the telephone?\nI'll let you in on a secret... It's not for real.. Take my word for it.\n\n |> |> It seems that the US law -represented by US State dept in this case-\n |> |> is looking to the other way around when violence occurs in occupied territories.\n |> |> Anyway, as for Hamas, then obviously they turned to the islamic system.\n\n |> And which system do you propose we use to solve the ME problem?\n\n The question is NOT which system would solve the ME problem. Why ? because\n any system can solve it. \n The laws of minister Sharon says kick Palestineans out of here (all palestine). \n\nI asked for which system should be used, that will preserve human rights for \nall people involved. I assumed that was obvious, but I won't repeat that \nmistake. Now that I have straightened that out, I'm eagerly awaiting your \nreply.\n\n Joseph Weitz (administrator responsible for Jewish colonization) \n said it best when writing in his diary in 1940:\n\t \"Between ourselves it must be clear that there is no room for both\n\t peoples together in this country.... We shall not achieve our goal\n\t\t\t\t\t\t^^^ ^^^\n\t of being an independent people with the Arabs in this small country.\n\t The only solution is a Palestine, at least Western Palestine (west of\n\t the Jordan river) without Arabs.... And there is no other way than\n\t to transfer the Arabs from here to the neighbouring countries, to\n\t transfer all of them; not one village, not one tribe, should be \n\t left.... Only after this transfer will the country be able to\n\t absorb the millions of our own brethren. There is no other way out.\"\n\t\t\t\t DAVAR, 29 September, 1967\n\t\t\t\t (\"Courtesy\" of Marc Afifi)\n\nJust a question: If we are to disregard the rather obvious references to \ngetting Israel out of ME one way or the other in both PLO covenant and HAMAS\ncharter (that's the english translations, if you have other information I'd\nbe interested to have you translate it) why should we give any credence to \na _private_ paper even older? I'm not going to get into the question if he\nwrote the above, but it's fairly obvious all parties in the conflict have\ntheir share of fanatics. Guess what..? Those are not the people that will\nmake any lasting peace in the region. Ever. It's those who are willing to \nmake a tabula rasa and start over, and willing to give in order to get \nsomething back.\n\n\n \"We\" and \"our\" either refers to Zionists or Jews (i donot know which). \n\n Well, i can give you an answer, you Master of Wisdom, I will NOT suggest the \n imperialist israeli system for solving the ME problem !\n\n I think that is fair enough .\n\nNo, that is _not_ an answer, since I asked for a system that could solve \nthe problem. You said any could be used, then you provided a contradiction.\nGuess where that takes your logic? To never-never land. \n\n\n \"The greatest problem of Zionism is Arab children\".\n\t\t\t -Rabbi Shoham.\n\nOh, and by the way, let me add that these cute quotes you put at the end are\na real bummer, when I try giving your posts any credit.\n--\n", "Elias Davidsson writes...\n\nED> dear pete,\nED> \nED> for one who is so zionist as you, you should at least know your\nED> hebrew, young man.\nED> \nED> The last sentence in your posting should read:\nED> \nED> Medina achat leshnai amim (not Echad medionnot leshtai amim).\nED> \nED> I don't want to address your comments. They speak for themselves.\nED> \nED> best regards from a Palestinian of Jewish origin who talks, reads and writes\nED> Hebrew and does not hate Jews nor anybody else. \nED> \nED> Elias\n \n The above claim that you do not hate anybody may not be quite\n true. The falsity of this statement is easily visible in the\n intellectual corruption that dominates everything you post in\n this group. Your complete lack of objectivity toward Israel, \n and Jewish identity in general, reveal biases that indicate a\n great steaming heap of hatred!\n \n You certainly have shown a genuine hatred for honesty and for\n objectivity. You repeatedly post items or quotes removed from \n their original context so that they can be used to further an \n agenda of rabid opposition to the very existence of Israel.\n\n You have used this dishonest technique to paint a false image \n of several Israeli leaders. I can't say if you actually HATE\n these leaders, but the lies and misrepresentations of them do\n suggest that you have a visceral prejudice against them.\n \n So, while you claim that you do not hate anybody, there is an\n ample body of evidence to suggest that this claim of yours is \n false. It is obvious that you hate Israel, and it is evident\n that you hate the Jewish people.\n\n And, if you are Jewish, you are a self-hating Jew. There can\n be no doubt of this. Although you will call upon your Jewish\n background in an effort to claim the high moral ground, there\n is no doubt that you would like to see the Jewish people fade\n away completely, as a people. Your advocacy of intermarriage\n for the purpose of dissolving the Jewish people is proof that \n you hate the Jewish people.\n\n And by your effort to superimpose the meaninglessness of your\n own Jewishness on all Jews, you've clearly demonstrated to me \n that you hate yourself.\n \n * * * *\n\n \"Who is a Jew? A person whose integrity decays when unmoved \n by the knowledge of wrong done to other people.\" ", "\n[DG] THE U.S. HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL MUSEUM: A COSTLY AND DANGEROUS MISTAKE\n[DG] by Theodore J. O'Keefe\n[DG] HARD BY THE WASHINGTON MONUMENT, within clear view of the Jefferson\n[DG] Memorial, an easy stroll down the Mall to the majestic Lincoln Memorial,\n[DG] has arisen, on some of the most hallowed territory of the United States of\n[DG] America, a costly and dangerous mistake. On ground where no monument yet\n[DG] marks countless sacrifices and unheralded achievements of Americans of all\n[DG] races and creeds in the building and defense of this nation, sits today a\n[DG] massive and costly edifice, devoted above all to a contentious and false\n[DG] version of the ordeal in Europe during World War II, of non-American\n[DG] members of a minority, sectarian group. Now, in the deceptive guise of\n[DG] tolerance, the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum begins a propaganda\n[DG] campaign, financed through the unwitting largess of the American taxpayer,\n[DG] in the interests of Israel and its adherents in America.\n\n[JAKE] After reading the first paragraph, a quick scan confirmed my first\n[JAKE] impression: this is a bunch of revisionist and anti-semitic hogwash.\n\nJake, I'm really disappointed in you. It took you a whole paragraph\nto see that it was \"bunch of revisionist and anti-semitic hogwash\". :-)\n\nThe article title \"THE U.S. HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL MUSEUM: A COSTLY AND \nDANGEROUS MISTAKE\" should have been enough! :-)\n\nTsiel", "It seems that President Clinton can recognize Jerusalem as Israels capitol\nwhile still keeping his diplomatic rear door open by stating that the Parties\nconcerned should decide the city's final status. Even as I endorse Clintons vie\nw (of course), it is definitely a matter to be decided upon by Israel (and\nother participating neighboring contries).\nI see no real conflict in stating both views, nor expect any better from\npoliticians.", "\nThen you haven't been paying attention to the arguments levelled against\nthem. They have been, over and over again. They will be again.\n\n\nHey, what do you think dictionaries are for? You quite obviously need\none. A good dictionary gives both, and you well know it.\n\n\nI don't think that data exist on this directly.\n\n\nThat is no problem. But once again you are defining Zionism as *ONE*\nmovement. You are implying that it is monolithic. You *KNOW* this is\nnot and has never been the case.\n\n\nYou don't say it directly. You implied it, and I showed explicitly\nwhere and how you implied it. Now you're trying to wriggle out of it.\nWon't wash, and you know it.\n\n\nIt's you, not me, who is running out of arguments. \n\n\nWhat you said is that \"Judaism is defined according to religious\nstandards.\" Now this can have several different meanings, and you know\nit. One of the meanings that it can have is to say that \"Only those who\nare religious are defined as Jews\". Another is to say that \"Only those\nwho meet the religious definition of a Jew is one.\" And there are\nothers. I'm not twisting your words. I'm trying to make you aware that\nyour words don't mean what you think they do.\n\n\nActually, it doesn't. And the citizens' rights are exactly THE SAME in\nboth cases, anyway.\n\n\nJewish\n\n\nJewish\n\n\nIt'll depend on what religion is practiced in the house. The original\nlaw of return would still admit such a person if they were Jewish, if\nmemory serves.\n\n\nNot Jewish.\n\n\n\nThat's valid, as far as I can see.\n\n\nMore than once. As have others.\n\n\nThe very one you give above. It is absolutely inconsistent with the\ntwist you put on it. \n\n\nNo you didn't. You had to twist the definition of the word 180 degrees\nin order to do so, and everyone else knows it. I'm not being touchy.\n\n\nBecause what you gave *WAS NOT* an example. IT WAS an example of how\nthe definition of a word can be twisted around 180 degrees. \n\n\nOh, so now what are dictionaries for?\n\n\nDuh. As a scientist, whose technical terms are very often not found in\ncommon dictionaries, I know this. But when a term is common, like\nhypocrisy, a good dictionary can be regarded as an authoritative source.\n\n\nIt's not nonsense. When people read what you write, they have to try to\nassociate a meaning to those words. Dictionaries give the meanings of\nwords, don't they? Now, I assume that you'd like to have the words you\nuse mean what you'd like them to. But the fact is, you're using very\ndifferent meanings than are in the dictionary, or you would like the\nreader to assign them new meanings, which they never had. \n\n\nNot at all. What I cannot abide is utter bombast when you've been\nproven completely wrong.\n\n\nI never put even one syllable in your mouth. You have tried to prove\nthis and you failed. \n\n\nPoppycock.\n\n\nI read what you said. I did not add anything. You simply either don't\nknow that the words don't mean what you'd like them to - which cannot be\nthe case now since you've been proven wrong and you quite obviously\ndon't have a defense against the arguments presented, or you're twisting\nthe meanings. Which is it?\n\n\nHa! There's nothing resembling fact in what you've said. I NEVER added\n*ANYTHING* to what you said.\n\n\n", "\n: First off they could recognise Iraqu's responsibility in initiating the\n: Iran/Iraq war. Providing technical assistance to Iran to get it's oil\n: production back up to capacity would also be a smart move, at the moment \n: Iran is above it's OPEC ceiling. If they had extra capacity they would\n: use it and bring down the oild price further which is in our interests.\n\nI agree with most of what Phill says, except the point about it being in\nour interests to bring down the oil price. Consider that both the U.S.\nand Great Britain have domestic sources to partly satisfy \ntheir energy needs. Pricy OPEC oil impacts both Germany,\nJapan and many other \"industrial rivals\" more than these two. \nIn addition, the proceeds from the sale (especially by Saudi Arabia, Kuwait\nU.A.E. etc) are disproportionately reinvested in the U.S. and G.B., \npropping up these economies and further providing an incentive \nto keep prices from falling too low.", "\nMuslims helping the Nazis??? Where on earth do you come up with such\naccuusation?? Do you have proofs?? If not, you should publically apologize\nfor such a statement. Last time I heard, the nazis prided themselves in\nneeding no body to carry their politics and ideologies. And if your statment\nwere true, don't you think Israel would of used it to point to what a Muslim\nneighbor (PALESTINE) could do to them if they allowed it to be? The jewish\nlobby and power is very strong, and if what you said is true, we would of\nheard it from them before you could come up with it.\nAnd you dare say that you are taking no sides!!", "\n\nSo, it's okay to use civilians for cover if you're attacking soldiers\nin your country. (Of course, many of those attacking claim that they\naren't Lebanese, so it's not their country.)\n\nGot it. I think. Hmm. This is confusing.\n\nCould you perhaps repeat your rules explaining exactly when it is\npermissible to use civilians as shields? Also please explain under\nwhat conditions it is permissible for soldiers to defend themselves.\nAlso please explain the particular rules that make it okay for\nterrorists to launch missiles from Lebanon against Israeli civilians,\nbut not okay for the Israelis to try to defend themselves against\nthose missiles.\n", "\n Note the clause \"more forcibly\", above. My point is that they have\n made a few pro-forma, perfunctory remarks, and sent in a few C-130's and\n so forth, but it's clearly not something they're losing much sleep over.\n They're just going through the motions, while Moslems are being \"ethnically\n cleansed\" out of what used to be Yugoslavia. The US has been speaking\n out far more loudly than the Moslem nations in the UN and other world\n forums.\n\n\n\n Precisely. Humanitarian concerns were not the primary justification\n for US involvement in the Gulf - oil and geopolitics were. If the \n the Kuwaitis didn't have oil (and assuming Iraq still saw fit to \n invade them) I doubt you would have seen Operation Desert Storm.\n", "\nHow about some sources for all these numbers? Or is this more stuff that\n\"everybody knows\"?", "The honest answer to your question about Arabs who were expelled\nfrom Jaffa, and/or who fled Jaffa, or anywhere else in Israel, having\nthe right to return is: Yes, unfortunately, they have the right to\nreturn. They may apply for citizenship like any other non-Israeli and\nthen go to >Jaffa and try to buy their house back from the Jews who now\nown it. \n\n\tAnd now a question and answer for you: Can the Jews who were\nborn and raised in Hebron, or their descendants go back to THEIR homes\nin Hebron? The answer is: absolutely NOT, because they were almost all\nmurdered by their Arab neighbors - the \"palestinians\".\n\n\tNow, do I think the Arabs should be allowed to even visit\n\"their\" homes in Jaffa? Hell, no. Bring back the Jews of Hebron, Petah\nTikva, Jerusalem, Safed, etc. Then, perhaps I would be in favor of Arabs\nreturning to their Jaffa homes. However, seeing as no Arab has yet been\nable to bring people back from the dead, I'd say that's out.\n\nWith all the hope in the world,\n\nNissan Ratzlav-Katz", "Aryans who do not base their reasoning on Nazi ideology are racists...\n\nThus spoke an American citizen in the name of Judaism. If this is Judaism,\nI think Judaism should be combatted as any extremist and dangerous\nphilosophy.\n\nI suspect however that Martin Buber, Albert Einstein and other Jewish\nscholars would have rather converted to Christianity than stay Jews, if\nthey would have perceived Judaism as such a perverted philosophy.", "I saw a 3 hour show on PBS the other day about the history of the\nJews. Appearently, the Cursades(a religious war agianst the muslilams\nin 'the holy land') sparked the widespread persecution of muslilams \nand jews in europe. Among the supporters of the persiecution, were none \nother than Martin Luther, and the Vatican.\n\nLater, Hitler would use Luthers writings to justify his own treatment\nof the jews.", "\n\tOther people have commented on most of this swill, I figured\nI'd add a few comments of my own.\n\n\n\tHong Kong, and Cairo both have higher population densities.\n\n\n\tThere is no fundamental right to work in another country. And\nthe closing of the strip is not a punishment, it is a security measure\nto stop people from stabbing Israelis.\n\n\n\n\tDozens minus one, since one of them was stabbed to death a few\ndays ago.\n\n\tAdam\n\nAdam Shostack \t\t\t\t adam@das.harvard.edu", "\nThe number of civilian Iraqi deaths were way over-exaggerated and \nexploited for anti-war emotionalism by the liberal news media. The\nfacts are that less Iraqis died in the Gulf War than did civilians \nin any other war of comparable size this century! This was due mostly\nto the short duration coupled with precise surgical bombing techniques\nwhich were technically possible only recently.\n\nThe idea that \"hundreds of thousands\" of Iraqi citizens died is\nludicrous. Not even \"hundreds of thousands\" of Iraqi soldiers died,\nand they were the ones being targeted! Or do you think that the US\nand its allies were specifically out to kill and maim Iraqi civilians?\nEither the smart bombs didn't hit their targets (and we know they did),\nor they were targeting civilian targets (!) which is hardly condusive to\ndestroying Iraq's military potential. The military mission planners are\nnot fools, they know they have to hit *military* targets to win a war.\nHitting civilian targets does nothing but unite the people against you,\nnot a laudable goal if one wants the people to rise up against their\ntyrant-dictator. \n\nHow about all the innocent people who died in blanket-bombing in WW2?\nI don't hear you bemoaning them! War is never an exact science, but\nwith smart bombs, it's becoming more exact with a smaller percentage\nof civilian casualties. Sometimes mistakes are made; targets are\nmisidentified; innocents die. That's war the way it really is.\nBut the alternative, to allow tyrannical dictators to treat the earth\nlike it's one big rummage sale, grabbing everything they can get is\nworse. Like Patrick Henry said some 217 years ago, \"I know not what\ncourse others may take -- but as for me, give me liberty, or give me\ndeath!\" War is always the price one must be willing to pay if one\nwishes to stay free. \n\n\nMathew, your sarcasm is noted but you are completely off-base here.\nYou come off sounding like a complete peace-nik idiot, although I\nfeel sure that was not your intent.\n\nSo the Iraqi war was wrong, eh? I'm sure that appeasement would have\nworked better than war, just like it did in WW2, eh? I guess we\nshouldn't have fought WW2 either -- just think of all those innocent\nGerman civilians killed in Dresden and Hamburg. How about all the poor \nFrench who died in the crossfire because we invaded the continent? We \nshould have just let Hitler take over Europe, and you'd be speaking\nGerman instead of English right now.\n\nTyrants like Hussein *have* to be stopped. His kind don't understand\ndiplomacy; they only understand the point of a gun. My only regret is\nthat Bush wimped out and didn't have the military roll into Baghdad, so\nnow Hussein is still in power and the Iraqi people's sacrifice (not to\nmention the 357 Americans who died) was for naught. Liberating Kuwait \nwas a good thing, but wiping Hussein off the map would've been better!\n\nAnd as for poor, poor Rodney King! Did you ever stop and think *why*\nthe jury in the first trial brought back a verdict of \"not guilty\"?\nThose who have been foaming at the mouth for the blood of those\npolicemen certainly have looked no further than the video tape.\nBut the jury looked at *all* the evidence, evidence which you and I\nhave not seen. When one makes a judgment without the benefit of a\ntrial where evidence can be presented on both sides, one has simply\nlowered himself to the level of vigilante justice, a state-of-mind\nwhich your sarcasm above seemingly spoke against, but instead tends\nto support in the case against the policemen. \n\nLaw in this country is intended to protect the rights of the accused,\nwhether they be criminals or cops. One is not found guilty if there is\na reasonable doubt of one's guilt, and only the jury is in a position\nto assess the evidence and render a verdict. Anyone else is simply\nsuccumbing to verbal vigilantism.\n \nRegards,", "\n\nAnybody has any information about the number of the people have been killed\nby Israel during these 44 HAPPY YEAR?", "the 'Center for Policy Research' writes...\n \n\n Considering all the murders of innocent Israelis at the hands \n of Arab death merchants, I see nothing wrong with the advice.\n\n\n As usual, the bias of the 'Center for Policy Research' echoes\n through this newsgroup. Here we have an enraged Likudnik who\n is venting his spleen, and you portray it as if this is going\n to become policy. You don't say what the response to Matza's\n suggestion was. Do do not mention whether he was refering to\n terrorists caught in the act, which could be a clear cut case\n of self-defence. Would you care to elaborate on this, or was\n this all you wanted to say on the matter. Why don't you give\n up this 'Center for Policy Research' crap, and just post your \n biases without trying to legitimize them with a pompous name?\n\n\n A laudable precaution. \n \n Every single thing you post about Israel is posted to portray\n Israel as negatively as you can. Deliberate omissions are an\n integral part of the shtick. And it's not only the incidents\n that you do not mention, but even the stories you do post are\n fraught with omissions, which change the entire meaning. The\n absurdity of your respectable name cannot hide your bias.\n\n In your effort to portray Israel in an unfavorable light, you \n have accomplished nothing, except to prove that a respectable \n sounding label like the Center for Policy Research is nothing \n but a smoke screen for someone with a heavily biased attitude \n against Israel and the need to vent it. You ", "\n\nAny state that the CIA does not control is called \"state that is linked\nto terrorism/militants/fundamentalists etc..\"\nMeanwhile Even Egyptian \"experts\" who hate The Islamic movement admit\nthat what is happening in Egypt is spontaneous and most of the time a\nreaction to what the government does.\n\n...\n\nCan anybody see any contradiction between the above and the first\nparagraph? \nDoes anybody know what the UPI original article's title was?", "\n\n\nI would hope that if you intend to have a reasonable discussion you might\nwait until I express an opinion before deciding I should be flamed for it.\nAs for 'war' I am not sure how I would define it. If you just look at attacks\non villages then there is no way of deciding when it started. Would you\ncount the riots in the 20's and 30's? Violence but not war. I personally\nthink that 'war', as opposed to civil disturbance or whatever, requires\norganisation, planning and some measure of regualr or semi-regular forces.\nPerhaps the Arab Liberation Army counts. I could easily be convinced it was\nso. From what I know they did not have a great deal of planning let alone\norganisation. The Haganah and Palmach certainly did. That is not a cause\nfor criticism, it merely reflects the great organisation generally in the\n'Zionist' camp.\n\n\nNow you are being silly aren't you? In any case the war did NOT start\nwith the invasion of the Arab Armies. You see we both agree on something.\nAnd the previous posters were wrong, no?\n\n\nAgain I am not sure, I doubt you want my opinion anyway, but I think\nwar requires organisation as I said before. It needs a group to command\nand plan. If Fatah lauches rockets from Southern Lebanon (and are you\nsure you have the right group - not the Moslems again?) then that sounds\nlike war to me. Stone throwing does not.\n\nJoseph Askew\n", "\n CHECK MENAHEM BEGIN DAIRIES (published book) you'll find accounts of the\n massacres there including Deir Yassen,\n though with the numbers of massacred men, children and women are \n greatly minimized.\n\nAs per request of Hasan:\n\nFrom _The Revolt_, by Menachem Begin, Dell Publishing, NY, 1977:\n\n[pp. 225-227]\n\n \"Apart from the military aspect, there is a moral aspect to the\nstory of Dir Yassin. At that village, whose name was publicized\nthroughout the world, both sides suffered heavy casualties. We had\nfour killed and nearly forty wounded. The number of casualties was\nnearly forty percent of the total number of the attackers. The Arab\ntroops suffered casualties neraly three times as heavy. The fighting\nwas thus very severe. Yet the hostile propaganda, disseminated\nthroughout the world, deliberately ignored the fact that the civilian\npopulation of Dir Yassin was actually given a warning by us before the\nbattle began. One of our tenders carrying a loud speaker was stationed\nat the entrance to the village and it exhorted in Arabic all women,\nchildren and aged to leave their houses and to take shelter on the\nslopes of the hill. By giving this humane warning our fighters threw\naway the element of complete surprise, and thus increased their own\nrisk in the ensuing battle. A substantial number of the inhabitants\nobeyed the warning and they were unhurt. A few did not leave their\nstone houses - perhaps because of the confusion. The fire of the enemy\nwas murderous - to which the number of our casualties bears eloquent\ntestimony. Our men were compelled to fight for every house; to\novercome the enemy they used large numbers of hand grenades. And the\ncivilians who had disregarded our warnings suffered inevitable\ncasualties.\n\n \"The education which we gave our soldiers throughout the years of\nrevolt was based on the observance of the traditional laws of war. We\nnever broke them unless the enemy first did so and thus forced us, in\naccordance with the accepted custom of war, to apply reprisals. I am\nconvinced, too, that our officers and men wished to avoid a single\nunnecessary casualty in the Dir Yassin battle. But those who throw\nstones of denunciation at the conquerors of Dir Yassin [1] would do\nwell not to don the cloak of hypocrisy [2].\n\n \"In connection with the capture of Dir Yassin the Jewish Agency\nfound it necessary to send a letter of apology to Abdullah, whom Mr.\nBen Gurion, at a moment of great political emotion, called 'the wise\nruler who seeks the good of his people and this country.' The 'wise\nruler,' whose mercenary forces demolished Gush Etzion and flung the\nbodies of its heroic defenders to birds of prey, replied with feudal\nsuperciliousness. He rejected the apology and replied that the Jews\nwere all to blame and that he did not believe in the existence of\n'dissidents.' Throughout the Arab world and the world at large a wave\nof lying propaganda was let loose about 'Jewish attrocities.'\n\n \"The enemy propaganda was designed to besmirch our name. In the\nresult it helped us. Panic overwhelmed the Arabs of Eretz Israel.\nKolonia village, which had previously repulsed every attack of the\nHaganah, was evacuated overnight and fell without further fighting.\nBeit-Iksa was also evacuated. These two places overlooked the main\nroad; and their fall, together with the capture of Kastel by the\nHaganah, made it possible to keep open the road to Jerusalem. In the\nrest of the country, too, the Arabs began to flee in terror, even\nbefore they clashed with Jewish forces. Not what happened at Dir\nYassin, but what was invented about Dir Yassin, helped to carve the\nway to our decisive victories on the battlefield. The legend of Dir\nYassin helped us in particular in the saving of Tiberias and the\nconquest of Haifa.\"\n\n\n[1] (A footnote from _The Revolt_, pp.226-7.) \"To counteract the loss\nof Dir yassin, a village of strategic importance, Arab headquarters at\nRamallah broadcast a crude atrocity story, alleging a massacre by\nIrgun troops of women and children in the village. Certain Jewish\nofficials, fearing the Irgun men as political rivals, seized upon this\nArab gruel propaganda to smear the Irgun. An eminent Rabbi was induced\nto reprimand the Irgun before he had time to sift the truth. Out of\nevil, however, good came. This Arab propaganda spread a legend of\nterror amongst Arabs and Arab troops, who were seized with panic at\nthe mention of Irgun soldiers. The legend was worth half a dozen\nbattalions to the forces of Israel. The `Dir Yassin Massacre' lie\nis still propagated by Jew-haters all over the world.\"", "\n\nSigh.\n\nFarwell LA, Donchin E. The truth will out: Interrogative polygraphy (\"lie\ndetection\") with event-related brain potentials. Psychophysiology\n1991;28:531-547\n\n\"The research reported here was supported in part by contract number 87F350800\nwith the Central Intelligence Agency. Preliminary reports were presented at the\n1986, 1988, and 1989 meetings of the Society for Psychophysiological Research\".\n\nDonchin happens to be an Israeli.\n\nDo you really think that Israel needs something as primitive as torture when it\nhas THIS as well as something brought over by a Russian mathematician from the\nLenningrad Military Hospital in 1979 (factor-analysis of multiple unit\nactivity of the brain) ??? Surely you jest.\n\nWhen Israel sics trained dogs on Arab prisoners the way it's commonly done on\nprison farms in Mississippi or Alabama, *then* you have a right to protest\nagainst torture. When Israeli security personnel beat Arab prisoners the way\nChicago police do, *then* you have a right to complain. Since it does NOT\npractice physical torture in any way, kindly refrain from using this word.\n\nJosh\nbackon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n", "Do all those who are saying the government is responsible for the death\nof those in the compound also say that the Isrealis are responsible\nfor the death of the Isreali athletes at the Olympics? Hey, the\nPalestinians and the Dividians COULD have given up peacefully ('yeah,\nand monkey could fly out my butt' - Wayne).", "Los Angeles Times, Tuesday, April 13, 1993. P. A1.\n\nNEW DETAILS OF EXTENSIVE ADL SPY OPERATION EMERGE\n\n\t* INQUIRY: Transcripts reveal nearly 40 years of espionage\n\t by a man who infiltrated political groups\n\nBy Richard C. Paddock, Times staff writer.\n\nSAN FRANCISCO -- To the outside world, Roy Bullock was a small-time\nart dealer who operated from his house in the Castro District. In\nreality, he was an undercover spy who picked through garbage and\namassed secret files for the Anti-Defamation League for nearly 40\nyears.\n\nHis code name at the prominent Jewish organization was Cal, and he was\nso successful at infiltrating political groups that he was once chosen\nto head an Arab-American delegation that visited Rep. Nancy Pelosi\n(D-San Francisco) in her Washington, D.C., office.\n\nFor a time, Cal tapped into the phone message system of the White\nAryan Resistance to learn of hate crimes. From police sources he\nobtained privileged, personal information on at least 1,394 people. \nAnd he met surreptitiously with agents of the South African government\nto trade his knowledge for crisp, new $100 bills.\n\nThese are among the secrets that Bullock and David Gurvitz, a former\nLos Angeles-based operative, divulged in extensive interviews with\npolice and the FBI in a growing scandal over the nation-wide\nintelligence network operated by the Anti-Defamation League.\n\nOfficials of the Anti-Defamation League, while denying any improper\nactivity, have said they will cooperate with the investigation. They\nhave refused to discuss Bullock and Gurvitz.\n\nTranscripts of the interviews -- among nearly 700 pages of documents\nreleased by San Francisco prosecutors last week -- offer new details\nof the private spy operation that authorities allege crossed the line\ninto illegal territory.\n\nAt times, the intelligence activities took on a cloak-and-dagger air\nwith laundered payments, shredded documents, hotel rendezvous with\nforeign agents and code names like \"Ironsides\" and \"Flipper.\"\n\nOn one occasion, Gurvitz recounts, he received a tip that a\npro-Palestinian activist was about to board a plane bound for Haifa,\nIsrael. Although the Anti-Defamation League publicly denies any ties\nto Israel, Gurvitz phoned an Israeli consular official to warn him. \nShortly afterward, another official called Gurvitz back and debriefed\nhim.\n\nThe court papers also added to the mystery of Tom Gerard, a former CIA\nagent and San Francisco police officer accused of providing\nconfidential material from police files to the Anti-Defamation League.\n\nGerard fled to the Philippines last fall after he was interviewed by\nthe FBI, but left behind a briefcase in his police locker. Its\ncontents included passports, driver's licenses and identification\ncards in 10 different names; identification cards in his own name for\nfour American embassies in Central America; and a collection of blank\nbirth certificates, Army discharge papers and official stationery from\nvarious agencies.\n\nAlso in the briefcase were extensive information on death squads, a\nblack hood, apparently for use in interrogations, and photos of\nblindfolded and chained men.\n\nInvestigators suspect that Gerard and other police sources gave the\nADL confidential driver's license or vehicle registration information\non a vast number of people, including as many as 4,500 members of one\ntarget group, the Arab-American Anti-Discrimination Committee.\n\nEach case of obtaining such data from a law enforcement officer would\nconstitute a felony, San Francisco Police Inspector Ron Roth noted in\nan affidavit for a search warrant.\n\nThe Anti-Defamation League, a self-described Jewish defense and civil\nrights organization, acknowledges it has long collected information on\ngroups that are anti-Semitic, extremist or racist. The ADL's\nfact-finding division, headed by Irwinn Suall in New York, enjoys a\nreputation for thoroughness and has often shared its information with\npolice agencies and journalists. \n\nHowever, evidence seized from Bullock's computer shows he kept files\non at least 950 groups of all political stripes, including the\nAmerican Civil Liberties Union, Earth Island Institute, the United\nFarm Workers, Jews for Jesus, Mother Jones magazine, the Center for\nInvestigative Reporting, the Bo Gritz for President Committee, the\nAsian Law Caucus and the AIDS activist group ACT UP.\n\nThe computer files also included information on several members of\nCongress, including Pelosi, House Armed Services Committee Chairman\nRon Dellums (D-Berkeley) and former Republican Rep. Pete McCloskey\nfrom the Bay Area.\n\nIn their statements, Bullock and Gurvitz said the Anti-Defamation\nLeague has collected information on political activists in the Los\nAngeles area for more than 30 years. They said they worked closely\nwith three Los Angeles County sheriff's deputies who specialized in\nintelligence work, a Los Angeles Police Department anti-terrorism\nexpert and a San Diego County Sheriff's Department intelligence\nofficer.\n\nA spokesman for the Los Angeles Sheriff's Department said he knew\nnothing of any contact between the deputies and the ADL. The Los\nAngeles Police Department, which earlier refused to cooperate with the\ninvestigation, and the San Diego Sheriff's Department declined\ncomment.\n\nBullock, 58, is one of the most intriguing characters in the spy\ndrama. Although he is not Jewish, he began working undercover as a\nvolunteer for the ADL and the FBI in Indiana in 1954 after reading a\nbook about a man who infiltrated the Communist Party.\n\nBullock moved to Los Angeles in 1960 and was given a paid position by\nthe ADL as an intelligence operative, he told authorities. In the\nmid-1970s, he moved to San Francisco and continued his spy operations\nup and down the West Coast.\n\nTo keep his identity secret, his salary has always been funneled\nthrough Beverly Hills attorney Bruce I. Hochman -- who has never\nmissed a payment in more than 32 years, Bullock said.\n\n\"I was an investigator for the ADL. I investigated any and all\nanti-democratic movements,\" Bullock said. \". . . Officially, I'm only\na contract worker with Bruce Hochman. That way, the league would not\nbe officially connected with me.\"\n\nBullock said he became a master at infiltrating groups from Communists\nto Arab-American to gay radicals to skinheads, usually using his own\nname but once adopting the alias Elmer Fink.\n\n\"I'm one of a kind,\" he told police.\n\nIn recent years, however, his ADL affiliation has increasingly become\nknown, and at one point he was confronted by a skinhead armed with a\nshotgun who threatened to kill him.\n\nIn the mid-1980s, he helped San Francisco police solve a bombing at a\nsynagogue by combing through the trash of extremist Cory Phelps and\nmatching handwriting with samples on a threatening letter obtained by\npolice. In part because of this investigation, he became close\nfriends with Gerard, who at the time was working in the San Francisco\npolice intelligence division.\n\nBullock frequently searched through the garbage of target groups. An\nFBI report noted how he investigated one Palestinian group:\n\n\"Bullock would write reports based on what he found in the trash, and\nwould share the reports with Gerard. Bullock also gave the trash to\nGerard for Gerard to examine. Gerard would later return the trash to\nBullock.\"\n\nFrom a wide range of sources, Bullock compiled files on 9,876\nindividuals and more than 950 political groups. Gerard, whose files\ncontained many identical entries, kept files on 7,011 people.\n\nIn 1987, Bullock and Gerard began selling some of their vast wealth of\ninformation to the South African government. Bullock tells of\nmeetings secretly with South African agents at San Francisco hotels\nand receiving envelopes filled with thousands of dollars in new $100\nbills.\n\nBullock insists the information he sold consisted of data he culled\nonly from public sources. Once he rewrote an innocuous item published\nby San Francisco Chronicle columnist Herb Caen about South African\nBishop Desmond Tutu and the wife of prominent attorney Melvin Belli --\nand submitted it as his own work.\n\nBullock said it was Gerard who sold official police intelligence. \nBullock said he split about $16,000 from the South African government\nevenly with Gerard, telling him at one point, \"I may be gay but I'm a\nstraight arrow.\"\n\nIn his interviews with the police and FBI, Bullock talked freely about\nengaging in certain activities that prosecutors say would appear to\nviolate the law.\n\nFor example, Bullock admitted to receiving driver's license records\nand criminal histories from Gerard on about 50 people -- a fraction of\nthe confidential police data found in his computer. And he said\nGerard gave him complete San Francisco Police Department intelligence\nfiles on various Nazi groups that were supposed to be destroyed under\ndepartment policy.\n\nBullock said he also received a confidential FBI report on the Nation\nof Islam that he later shredded at the Anti-Defamation League's San\nFrancisco office.\n\nBullock seemed proud of his \"Operation Eavesdrop,\" in which he used a\npaid informant, code-named Scumbag, to help tap into a White Aryan\nResistance phone message network, listening to the messages left by\nmembers of the right-wing group. \"For a short time, it was\nwonderful,\" he told police.\n\nIn Los Angeles, ADL operative Gurvitz was hired about four years ago\nas a \"fact-finder\" to keep intelligence files and occasionally go\nundercover to the meetings of target groups.\n\nAmong other things, he told San Francisco authorities, the Los Angeles\nADL office kept a record of any Arab-American who had \"anti-Israel\nleanings\" or who wrote a letter to a newspaper expressing such\nsentiment.\n\nGurvitz was recently forced to resign after an incident in which he\nattempted to misuse the ADL intelligence network to seek revenge on a\nrival who got a job Gurvitz wanted at the Simon Wiesenthal Center for\nHolocaust Studies. Gurvitz got confidential police data on the rival\nand threatened to expose him as a Jewish spy to a right-wing hate\ngroup.\n\nGurvitz has since begun cooperating with police and the FBI in the\nprobe, providing considerable information about the ADL operation. \nUnlike Bullock, he has been assured he is not a subject of the\ninvestigation.\n\nGurvitz declined through his father in Los Angeles to be interviewed\nby The Times. Bullock's attorney said his client would not comment.", ": I heard about the arms sale to Saudi Arabia. Now, how is it such a grave\n: mistake to sell Saudi Arabia weapons? Or are you claiming that we shouldn't\n: sell any weapons to other countries? Straightforward answer please.\n\nSaudi Arabia is an oppressive regime that has been recently interfering\nin the politcs of newly renunified Yemen, including assasinations and \nborder incursions. It is entirely possible that they will soon invade.\nUnluckily for Yemen it is not popular in the West as they managed to put\naside political differences during reunification and thus the West has\neffectively lost one half (North?) as a client state.", "\n\n\n\n \n ^^^^^^^^^\n\n\nMaybe we should ask the 83,103 people who were laid off this January whether\nor not we're in a recession. That was a figure that was reported in the\nNew York Times. There is no official figure, because the Bureau of Labor\nStatistics stopped government tracking of layoffs eight months ago due to\nbudget cuts.\n\n(The above information was published in Harper's Index, Harper's magazine.)\n", "\n[ANAS] A high rank Israeli officer was killed during a clash whith a Hamas\n[ANAS] Mujahid. The terrorist Israelis chased and killed a young Mujahid\n[ANAS] using anti-tank missiles. The terrorist zionists cut the Mujahid's\n[ANAS] body into small pieces to the extend that his body was not recognized.\n[ANAS] At leat ten houses were destroyed by these atni-tank missiles.\n\nIf indeed Israeli soldiers killed a \"Hamas Mujahid\" with an anti-tank missile\nthen I'm almost sure that the \"terrorist zionists\" would not have been able\nto cut up a body which was probably desintegrated by the missile.\n\nStop polluting the net with you fantasies.\n\nTsiel", " > Lines: 13\n > NNTP-Posting-Host: yfn.ysu.edu\n > \n > \n > \n > >Our little Goebbels, to those who forgot, is talking about an alleged\n > >\"infection\" of \"fine Egyptian men\", by a \"Mossad agent caught spying\n > >with her father in Egypt\". As noted before, the women is a Muslim\n > >Israeli, she was not a spy, and she didn't infect anybody.\n > \n > The Jewish version of the story!!\n > \n > \"A Muslim Israeli.\" I thought it is a Jewish State.\n > Hasn't it yet been defined up to this point?\n > \n\n This is a post from a hospital? The inmates from foam the cushion ward\n have net access!", "Whatever.\nAnyway, Elias should take a look at my quotes to find real, effective\nways of getting your point across. Notice that all the quotes are \nrecent. Buy a clue, Nazi man from up north.", "\nWhich was my point. By converting to another religion I do not loose\nmy cultural identity, I just loose my religious identification.\nI consider that defining the belonging to a nation that claims the \nright to have a State based on religious belief is a form of racism.\n\n\nTo be a part or not of the Jeish Nation is defined by my culture and not\nby my religion. Actually, if I am an atheist, which is in fact like \nconverting into a non-Jewish in terms of religion, I am still considered as\npart of the Jewish Nation.\nI can be proud of my Jewish culture while not giving any importance to the\nJewish religion. Or, even more, I can be proud of my Jewish culture while\nstill be convinced that the real god is another one.\nI do not know anyone who lost his memebership to the American nation \nbecause he changed of god.\n\nI still believe that we should never confusse the actions of States with\nthe individuals who happen to live there.\nIn the same way that I do not think it is right to blame all Israelis for the\nhuman rights violations of Israel, I do not think that we should assume\nthat all Arabs are guilty of the actions of the Arab States.\nSome people fled their homes because they were scared. Now they are in\nthere, still suffering for what they are not responsible.\nAnd, remember that we also were told the same at some point. We ended in\nthe diaspora. And, of course, I am not for doing to others what I did not\nwant done to me. \n", "\n\nWhat is so honorable about placing bombs in passenger airliners,\npromising to execute Rushdie, killing 1-2 million people in the\nIran/Iraq war, murdering tourists and persecuting ethinc Christians in\nEgypt, massacring Christians in Sudan, harassing Christians in and \nbarring Jews from Saudi Arabia? How are paranoid Muslims \"righteous\nin defending themsselves\" in these situations? Who are they even\nafraid of?\n\n\nConsidering that you seem to be posting from central New Jersey, this\nis an odd comment coming from you. I dare you to speak your mind in\nthe Middle East in any country besides Israel.\n", "I agree with you Harry, however you must also concede then that\nArab terrorism is also a tragedy of war. remember that the\nPalestinians have no other effective target but civilians in\norder to further their cause. If Irgun had to attack civilian\ntargets to terrorize in order that they might obtain some\nobjective, I'm sure they would have done so. I also don't\nexclude Irgun's action against British soldiers as terrorism.\nThe British were showing signs of favoring a compromise with\nregards to Palestine, and the Irgun and branch off groups made\na point to kill young British recruits so that mothers and\nfathers back in Britain would get angry at Britains continued\npresence in Palestine. Sounds like a form of terrorism to me,\nand not much removed from Arab terrorism. We must not also\nforget that Irgun, or Irgun branch off groups [more likely]\nkilled many jews who were not as hardline zionist as they, or\nwho cooperated with the British. \n\tI'll reiterate again.... both sides are screwy, but\nI'll favor the underdog in this case because I do think they\nwere a bit screwed.\n", "\n\n\nNo, he does not. Arafat explicitly *denies* this claim.\n\n\nfrom a Libyan televison interview with Yasser Arafat 7-19-1991\nQ: Some people say that the Palestinian revolution has many times changed\n its strategies and tactics, something which has left its imprint on the\n Palestinian problem and on the Palestinian Liberation Front. The\n [strategies and tactics] have not been clear. The question is, is the\n direction of the Palestinian problem clear? The Palestinian leadership\n has stopped, or at least this is what has been said in the media, this\n happened on the way to the dialogue with the United States, the PLO\n recognized something called \"Israel\"...\n\nA: No, no, no! We do not recognize the State of Israel. We said\n \"recognition\" -- when a Palestinian state is established. It will then\n decide if to recognize Israel or not. When it is established, its\n parliament will convene and decide.\n\n\n\tAnd replace them with what? If Israel is to withdraw its\ncontrol of any territory, there must be two prerequsites. One is that\nit leads to a reduction in deaths. The second is that it should not\nweaken Israels bargianing position with respect to peace talks.\n\n\tLeaving Gaza unilateraly is a bad idea because it encourages\narabs to think they can get what they want by killing Jews. The only\nway Israel should pull out of Gaza is at the end of negotiations.\nThese negotiations should lead to a mutually agreeable solution with\nsecurity guarantees for both sides.\n\n\tUntil arabs are ready to sit down at the table and talk again,\nthey should not expect, or recieve more concessions.\n\n\nAdam\n\n\n\n\nAdam Shostack \t\t\t\t adam@das.harvard.edu", "\n\n\n\nPolish and Jewish are *not* mutually exclusive.\n\n\n\n", "Some of your article was cut off on the right margin, but I will try\nand answer from what I can read.\n\nJudaism did not father Islam. We had many of the same prophets, but\nJudaism ignores prophets later prophets including Jesus Christ (who\nChristians and Muslims believe in) and Mohammed. The idea of believing\nin one God should unite all peoples. However, note that Christianity\nand Islam reflect the fact that there are people with different views\nand the rights of non-Christians and non-Muslims are stated in each\nreligion.\n\n\nWe are supposed to pay 6% of our income after all necessities are\npaid. Please note that this 6% is on a personal basis - if you are\npoor, there is no need to pay (quite the contrary, this money most\noften goes to the poor in each in country and to the poor Muslims\naround the world). Also, this money is not required in the human\nsense (i.e. a Muslim never knocks at your door to ask for money\nand nobody makes a list at the mosque to make sure you have paid\n(and we surely don't pass money baskets around during our prayer\nservices)).\n\nGod's presence is certainly on Earth, but since God is everywhere,\nGod may show signs of existence in other places as well. We can not\nsay for sure where God has shown signs of his existence and where\nhe has not/.\n\nThe Qur'an is not a copyright of the Taurah. Muslims believe that\nthe Taurah, the Bible, and the Qur'an originally contained much the same\nmessage, thus the many similiarities. However, the Taurah and the\nBible have been 'translated' into other languages which has changed\ntheir meaning over time (a translation also reflects some of the\npersonal views of the translator(s). The Qur'an still exists in the\nsame language that it was revealed in - Arabic. Therefore, we know\nthat mankind has not changed its meaning. It is truly what was revealed\nto Mohammed at that time. There are many scientific facts which\nwere not discovered by traditional scientific methods until much later\nsuch as the development of the baby in the mother's womb.\n\n\nOnly God knows for sure how it will turn out. I hope it won't, but if\nthat happens, it was the will of God.\n\nPlease send this mail to me again so I can read the rest of what\nyou said. And yes, may God help us all.", "\n\nmaybe the missile didn't hit directly such that his body\ngets \"desintegrated.\" of course, destroying 10 houses to\nkill someone is not a surgical operation, or is it?\n \n", "\n I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but since the majority\nof the contributors (and may be even readers) of this newsgroup seem\nto be muslims, christians and jews, my question could be of some \ninterest to any of them.\n It's my impression that both Islam and Christianity pay great\nrespect to an obscure 1st century jewish lad from Judea/Galilee. Why \nthey chose this particular jew among all possible jews is a mystery\nto me (personally, I prefer Woody Allen - his stories are much juicier)\n- but perhaps it's an accident of history.\n Anyway, it seems that they may be talking about two different\njews. According to the New Testament his father's name was Joseph,\nwhile in Qur'an he appears as Zachariah. \n Who's right and why the name difference? I'm really curious.\n David.\n", "\n\nThe cads! The fact that this is precisely what the US was up to of\ncourse is not mentioned. It is a fact that Regan and Bush sold arms\nto Iran, it is also a fact that they supported and armed Iraq.\n\nStill this is state dept propaganda so none too surprizing.\n\n\nIn the case of Lybia there is the problem that the US only decided\nthat Gadffii ordered the bombing after it needed to make peace with\ndamascus during the gulf war. One day the US is certain that its Syria,\nthe next Lybia. For a strange reason the US will not provide evidence to\nLybian courts for extradition proceedings. Faced with similar demands the\nUSA would reject them as would any other country.\n\n\n\nThe word is \"terrorism\".\n\n\nThe problem is that after the behaviour of George Bush the USA has an\nimage abroad as doing precisely what it likes and is in its own interests\nthen comming out with a Dysney scripted sugary justification repeating a\nfitting combination of the words \"freedom\" \"dignity\" \"democaracy\" or\nof \"terrorism\" \"dictatorship\" etc as appropriate.\n\nThe USA could go quite far to mend the bridges with Iran. The people there are\nrather pissed off because the USA first supported the Shah who they\nloathed and then supported Saddam when he mounted an unprovoked attack. \nHardly surprizing after the embassy hostage crisis but Iran is meant to be\nthe country run by unreasonable bigots not the USA so if there is to be\nmovement it would be easier for the USA to move.\n\nFirst off they could recognise Iraqu's responsibility in initiating the\nIran/Iraq war. Providing technical assistance to Iran to get it's oil\nproduction back up to capacity would also be a smart move, at the moment \nIran is above it's OPEC ceiling. If they had extra capacity they would\nuse it and bring down the oild price further which is in our interests.\n\nThe Iranian clerics would have an interest in seeking a raprochment \nsimply because a permanent war footing is debilitating. They also need\nwestern technology. \n", "\nThat's not true. I gave you two examples. One was the rather\npevasive anti-semitism in German Christianity well before Hitler\narrived. The other was the system of social ranks that were used\nin Imperail Germany and Austria to distinguish Jews from the rest \nof the population.\n\nNeither of these were very terrible in themselves, but both helped\nto set a psychology in which the gradual disenfranchisement of Jews\nwas made easier.", "\nYou might want to re-think your attitude about the Holocaust after\nreading Deuteronomy chapter 28.", "\nPlease list the names of some of those neutral reporters that were killed\nin the \"O.T.\". It is also interesting to note that at the outbreak of\nthe intifada, palestinian parties quickly began orchestrating their\ndemonstrations for the benefit of the media. Having spoken to a Danish\nreporter who covered the initfada, I know of at least one case where\nhe found out that a \"mass demonstration\" on the outskirts of Gaza was\nsetup for himself and his colleagues. When I asked whether the footage\nshot was sent he replied affirmatively, \"after all, it did happen.\"\nWhen this became the case, the IDF began closing sensitive trouble\nspots to reporters.\n\n", "\n\nTsiel,\n\nI would contend that there was shelling from both sides of the border,\nstarting from the early 70's. Certainly the PLO did shell Northern\nIsrael from the Arqoub region, but Israel did much more shelling\ndestroying several South Lebanese villages. At the very least\nwe can say that both sides exchanged shelling, with occasional\naerial raids by Israel on Lebanese villages.\nIn any case Steve's characterization that the 1982 invasion was only in \nresponse to years of shelling from Lebanon is false. Israel had\nmany reasons for invading but mainly it did so to install a government\nin Lebanon favorable to Israel, and it nearly achieved this aim\nwith the election of Basheer El Gemayel, and his brother, Amin\nEl Gemayel, but the internal situation in Lebanon was too hard\nto control and predict so Israel had to withdraw, and Amin El Gemayel\nhad to abrogate the 17 th of May Agreement.\n", "\n\nI lived in Tokyo for a year and a half, and one of the many reasons why\nI intend to go back indefinitely is the freedom one enjoys when one can\nwalk anywhere (and I mean *anywhere*) at any time of day or night and not\nfeel uneasy, even if one's from an ethnic minority as I was.\n\nClues for Bobby (why do I bother?): (i) Tokyo is a city, and inner Tokyo\nis an inner city; (ii) there is a negligible level of violent crime, and\na street murder will be a lead item on *national* TV news; (iii) the\npopulation is almost universally atheistic.\n\nNext time I go for a stroll around Beirut at night, I'll let you know how\nit compares.\n\n\nCheers\n\nSimon", "# \n# #Are you saying that:\n# \n# #(1) People voted for Hitler, and he became Reich Chancellor, in good\n# #part because he used bully boys to attack communists,\n# \n# Hitler did not become become Reich Chancellor because people voted for\n# him. I'm not sure if you meant to imply that or not, but I just thought\n# I'd bring that up.\n# \n# Eric Smith\n\nHitler became Chancellor because people voted for his political\nparty. That's not a huge difference in a parliamentary system.\n\n", "\n\nIn fact, this \"productive human presence\" in the desert has, in the\ncenturies it has been there, produced one of the greatest\ncivilizations in human history. They not only created the wheel, but\nthe printing press, the light bulb, Post-Modern skyscraper\narchitecture, Broadway theatre and nuclear power, as well.\n\n\nRight, Elias. The Negev was a veritable Garden of Eden until the Evil\nJews turned off the rain and turned it into a horrible desert. Part\nof the International Jewish Conspiracy. Say, who should I call to\nturn off the rain here in NY, right now?\n\n\nYeah, deserts rarely look like the Garden of Eden.\n\n\nThis is why Nature Reserves people are heavily armed with anti-tank\nweaponry. Just what we need in the Nature Reserves.\n\n\nNothing like \"vast nuclear reactors\" when it comes to hiding them from\nair attack. AT least Saddam had the sense to hide his CBN plants in\n\"baby milk\" factories.\n\n\nIndeed, many older people recall fondly those lovely tomatoes and\noranges that the Bedouin exported form their Garden of Eden. In fact,\nthat region used to supply the entire world with bananas, until the\nJews pushed that business onto the \"banana republics\".\n\n\n\n\nElias, you're stupid postings are a source of considerable amusement\nand hilarity. Please don't stop. I might even have to go back to\nwatching TV.\n", "\n\nThere were a great many Germans, Poles and others who did not\nsympathize with the victims of the Holocaust but instead participated\nwith enthusiasm in the killing.\n\nThe Holocaust wasn't a massacre, it wasn't even killing for sport; it\nwas an entire Industry of Death. German engineers, architects\ntechnicians and bureaucrats proudly put their best efforts into as\nefficient and methodical a Killing Machine as they could devise and\noperate. And it certainly was something extraordinary.\n\nPlease don't bleat to us about how the Nazis suffered from the\nHolocaust.\n\n\n All Jews suffered during WWII [...]\nwas \"correct\" him with:\n All humans suffered [...]\n\nSo what WERE you implying?\n\n\nAre we supposed to thank you for your generosity? \nOr should we be pleased with your minimal common sense?\n\n\nWhy is it that when someone writes something simple like \"All Jews\nsufffered during WWII\" that YOU feel the burning need to add\ncommentary? Regardless of what people write, you keep trying to twist\nthings into what YOU want to hear. People with similar tendencies in\nmore extreme form are sometimes called Historical Revisionists. Is\nthis something that you aspire to?\n", "\n\n...\n\nOf course you never read Arab media,\n\nI read Arab, ISRAELI (Jer. Post, and this network is more than enough)\nand Western (American, French, and British) reports and I can say\nthat if we give Israel -10 and Arabs +10 on the bias scale (of course\nyou can switch the polarities) Israeli newspapers will get either\na -9 or -10, American leading newspapers and TV news range from -6\nto -10 (yes there are some that are more Israelis than Israelis)\nThe Montreal suburban (a local free newspaper) probably is closer\nto Kahane's views than some Israeli right wing newspapers, British\nrange from 0 (neutral) to -10, French (that Iknow of, of course) range\nfrom +2 (Afro-french magazines) to -10, Arab official media range from\n0 to -5 (Egyptian) to +9 in SA. Why no +10? Because they do not want to\noverdo it and stir people against Israel and therefore against them since \nthey are doing nothing.\n\n \n\nthe average bias of what you read would be probably around -9,\nwhile that of the average American would be the same if they do\nnot read or read the new-york times and similar News-makers, and\n-8 if they read some other RELATIVELY less biased newspapers.", "\n\n+>The Golan Heights is a serious security problem, and Israel obviously\n+>will have to keep part of it and give up part of it. (One should\n+>remember that the Golan Heights had been part of the area that was to\n+>be in Britain's Palestine Mandate, slated to become part of the Jewish\n+>state, until Britain traded it to France for other considerations. In\n+>other words, it is an historical accident that it was ever part of\n+>Syria.)\n\n\tThe Palestine mandate had no borders before\nthe borders were negotiated and drawn. The most the Golan may have been\nis on the list of what territories Britian would have liked to\nsee in the palestine mandate.\n\tUntil the mandates came into existance, there were no defined\nboundaries between any of the various territories in the region.", "Although I realize that principle is not one of your strongest\npoints, I would still like to know why do do not ask any question\nof this sort about the Arab countries.\n\n If you want to continue this think tank charade of yours, your\nfixation on Israel must stop. You might have to start asking the\nsame sort of questions of Arab countries as well. You realize it\nwould not work, as the Arab countries' treatment of Jews over the\nlast several decades is so bad that your fixation on Israel would\nbegin to look like the biased attack that it is.\n\n Everyone in this group recognizes that your stupid 'Center for\nPolicy Research' is nothing more than a fancy name for some bigot\nwho hates Israel.", "\nOf course posting some hard evidence or facts is much more\ndifficult. You have not bothered to substantiate this in\nany way. Basil, do you know of any evidence that would support\nthis?\n\nI can just imagine a news report from ancient times, if Hasan\nhad been writing it.\n\nNewsflash:\nCairo AP (Ancient Press). Israel today denied Egypt acces to the Red\nSea. In a typical display of Israelite agressiveness, the leader of\nthe Israelite slave revolt, former prince Moses, parted the Red Sea.\nThe action is estimated to have caused irreparable damage to the environment.\nEgyptian authorities have said that thousands of fisherman have been\ndenied their livelihood by the parted waters. Pharaoh's brave charioteers\nwere successful in their glorious attempt to cause the waters of the\nRed Sea to return to their normal state. Unfortunately they suffered\nheavy casualties while doing so.\n\n", " \tWASHINGTON (UPI) -- Secretary of State Warren Christopher said Tuesday\n there are better ideas to stop the human slaughter in the Balkans than\n ordering American fighters to bomb the Serbs, but a frustrated senator\n told him to do just that.\n \t``We've not done a damn thing,'' Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del., told\n Christopher at a hearing of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. \n ``Preventive diplomacy is not in your capability right now in Bosnia-\n Herzegovina.\n \tBiden chastised the administration and its Republican predecessor for\n what he characterized as a limp response to the Serbian policy of \n ``ethnic cleansing'' of Muslims, including rape and shelling of\n civilians.\n \t``The time has come for us and the world to stop bemoaning the fact\n that all the options are bad ones,'' Biden said. ``They are all bad ones\n and we ought to pick a couple.''\n \tBiden also endorsed lifting an international arms embargo against the\n former Yugoslavia so the Muslim-dominated Bosnian government might have\n a chance to at least defend itself against the Serbs.\n \tChristopher said this could give an opening role in the conflict to\n ****************************************************\n the radical Islamic government of Iran.\n***************************************\nO, I C!\n Biden endorsed bombing Serbian heavy weapons around the besieged\n eastern town of Srebrenica.\n \t``There's not a military person...who will not tell you that they\n could today, if you gave them the order, take out the heavy weaponry\n around Srebrenica,'' Biden said.\n \t``If you did nothing else, nothing else but that, you would have\n saved hundreds of women and children who are being absolutely massacred\n right now.''\n \tMilitary action ``is the only thing that's going to change the\n equation,'' Biden said.\n....................................\n \tDespite the frustrations and pressure, Christopher had no enthusiasm\n for American combat aircraft to strike Serb positions in Bosnia-\n Herzegovina.\n....................\n\nHumanitarian as in feeding them and let them get raped and killed.\n\n\t *******(then)\n\t*******************(Now)\n\nWhy don't they get the hell out of there, they ared doing nothing to\nprotect the victims anyway.. Maybe becasue they have a different agenda.\n\n *************************", "\n\nJust want to back this up with a personal anecdote. My grandparents\nhave a Navajo rug made in the 1920's, which they received in trade \nfrom the weaver while living in Flagstaff, Arizona. The decorative motif\nconsists of 4 large black swastikas, one in each corner. What's more, the\ncolor scheme is black, white, and red. To the casual glance it would\nundoubtedly appear to be a Nazi relic of some kind. Yet they owned it\nten years before Hitler and the National Socialists came to power. \n\nAs I recall, they took it down in the 30's, and didn't feel quite right\nabout putting it back up until the 60's. It still draws comments from \nthose who don't know what it is.\n\n--ccm\n\n-- \nChristopher C. May * U. of Ariz. Coll. of Medicine '93 * cmay@ccit.arizona.edu\n+=============================================================================+\n+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+", "\nIn the same way in which antisemite means anti-Jewish and not anti-all-\npersons-of-who-are-semite, a \"form of racism\" means: A form of segregation\nagainst all those who are different based on the religious identification.\n\nAAP\n", "\n[ANAS] There are many neutral human rights organizations which always report\n[ANAS] on the situation in the O.T. But, as most people used to see on TV, the\n[ANAS] Israelis do not allow them to go deep there in the O.T. The Israelis \n[ANAS] used to arrest and sometimes to kill some of these neutral reporters. \n[ANAS] So, this is another kind of terrorism committed by the Jews in Palestine.\n[ANAS] They do not allow fair and neutral coverage of the situation in \n[ANAS] Palestine.\n\nBring me one case where Israeli Soldiers deliberately killed a \"neutral \nreporter\". This is another one of your wet dreams.\n\nUnlike many countries, Israel does allow reporters in and out of the O.T. \nThat is what the problem is. If Israel were a country like China, then \nnothing would transpire from what is happening in the O.T. But there\nseems to be a proliferation of journalists in Israel always trying to show\nhow evil the Israeli monster is. Arab countries don't allow journalists \nanywhere, we have yet to hear about the massacres of Kurds, the destruction\nand annihilation of Hama, the killings of moslem fundamentalists in mosques\nin Egypt and Algeria etc... Why is it we only get state reports? How accurate\nare they?\nAnas, go give a lesson of freedom of speech to your Arab bretheren before\ntelling us what to do.\n\nTsiel", "Yesterday, I watched an outstanding documentary on PBS prepared for Frontline\nby the documentary consortia. It is called \"Memory of the camps\" and shows some\n\"un-censored\" pictures taken immediately after the liberation of Bergen-Belsen\nand other death camps.\n \nI recommend it to everybody. Check with your PBS station for re-broadcast.\nIT IS A MUST SEE documentary. \n \nIn the Seatle, Vancouver area KSTS-9 will re-broadcast the documentary\non Monday 01:30 am.\nYou can also order a copy from PBS Video 1-800-3287271. The cost is $59.95.", "\nI'm not aware that the US government considers me dangerous. In any\ncase, that has nothing to do with the current case. The claim against\nthe ADL is that it illegally obtained and disseminated information that\nwas gathered by state and/or federal agencies in the course of their\nstandard interaction with citizens such as myself. By that I refer to\nthings such as: address and phone number, vehicle registration and\nlicense information, photographs, etc.\n\n\nYou should ask the ADL, if you want an authoritative answer. My guess\nis that they collected information on anyone who did or might engage in\npolitical criticism of Israel. I further believe that they did this as\nagents of the Israeli government, or at least in agreement with them.\nAt least some of the information collected by the ADL was passed on to\nIsraeli officials. In some cases it was used to influence, or attempt\nto influence, people's access to jobs or public forums. These matters\nwill be brought out as the court case unfolds, since California law\nentitles people to compensation if such actions can be proven. As my\nprevious posting shows, California law entitles people to compensation\neven in the absence of any specific consequences -- just for the further\ndissemination of certain types of private information about them.", "\nI've read estimates that Pol Pot killed somewhere in the neighborhood\nof 2 million.\n\nDrew ", "From: Center for Policy Research \nSubject: Zionists reject non-Jews. News\n\n\nEthiopian Jews and not-quite Jews\n\nThe Israeli press has published items about Ethiopian \nJews waiting in camps in Addis Ababa for immigration to \nIsrael, who are dying of starvation. The following are \nexcerpts from an interview with the former general \ndirector of the JDC project for development and welfare \nof Ethiopian Jews, Kobi Friedman (Hadashot, 21 April \n1993), who has stated that \"there are people dying in \nAddis Ababa, but they are converts to Christianity\":\n\n\"Hadashor published the item about the dying Jews after \nviewing a video tape filmed last week in Adis Ababa. \nHow do you know that they are actually converts to \nChritianity ?\n\n\"If there are Jews on the tape, then I don't know what to \nsay. I am speaking from experience when I say that those \nwho remained in Ethiopia are Christians. I know that \nthere have previously been things published in the press \nby interesting parties, and there is no connection \nbetween them and reality.\"\n\n\"What interested parties ?\"\n\n\"Ethiopian immigrants who want their Christian relatives \nto come here.\"\n\n\"What to you recommend that Ethiopian children in Israel \ndo, when their parents and the rest of their relatives \nremain in Ethiopia ?\"\n\n\"I ask if it is the job of the State of Israel to bring in the \n40 relatives who stayed in Ethiopia. Well, my answer is \nthat it is not. It would be a better solution, economically \nas well, for that young man to buy a one-way ticket to \nEthiopia and reunite with his family there.\"", "\n\nIt wasn't all that long ago that the acts of Israeli soldiers were\ndescribed as \"superhuman\". Now, they are \"inhuman\". Did the Israelis\nchange so radically so quickly or have reporting attitudes changed?\n\n\nWhen the Jews were powerless, they did what they could to help others,\nwhich was obviously quite limited. Later, liberated American Jews\nwere on the forefront of the civil-rights movement. The Jewish\ngovernment of Israel rescued Jews ranging in skin color from White\nRussian to Brown Yemenite to Black Ethiopian. Please, Andi, tell us\n\"how the Jews are treating other races when they got power.\"\n\n\nYour ignorance and bias are indeed unfortunate.\n", "\nKaufman,\nI think we have a problem in this newsgroup: every time somebody puts\ndown serious questions on Israel, the first response would be \"what about\nthe Arab countries?\" ...\n\nMost of the Arab countries governments are ruling their people with Iron\nfist policy and Dark Ages democracy (if exists). Ironically, these are \nthe countries that the \"West\" would like to deal with and would wage \nmassive wars to protect them and their resources.\n\nFor Israel the situation is different, Israel claims it is a\ndemocracy -- I would call it selective democracy, that abides by Western\ndemocratic standards. If Israel is saying that then\nit has to be compared to Western standards. If this comparison is the\nadvertized propaganda from Israel, then we have to look at seriously at\nquestion that can and should be asked regarding any country advertizing\nthis standard. \nThat is very incorrect, I see you have been brain-washed well, I would\nrecommend non-Zionist history books).\n\n\nPlease, speak for yourself. Do not imagine that \"everyone\" subscribes to\nyour beliefs, you would be lucky if you believe them yourself.\n\n\nWhat is this, you trying to destroy the credibility of the author, why?\nall of this because he asked some serious question. These tactics of\ndestroying the credibility of a person beacuse you do not agree with\nher/him is old and does not work anymore, go tell your superiors\n(AIPAC?) to change their guide books.\n\n\nSalam,\n\nEyad Nuweiri\nSoftware Engineer\nUnify Corp.\t\t\n\n*** Disclaimer: This is my personal views, not of my employer ***\n", "\nThis could be accomplished by other criteria. One must remember\nthat children often bring stress into households. As an alternative,\none could consider financial incentives for every sexual act performed\nby two partners of different ethnic backgrounds. The plan could\nbe entitled \"PEACE INCOME SEXUAL SECURITY\", or PISS for short.\n\nEvery time an Israeli gets screwed\nby a Palestinian or visa versa, they would be eligible for income.\nIn keeping with the spirit of the times, condoms would be a tax deductible\nexpense. This policy does not discriminate on a gender basis nor\nwould it apply to domestic animals of either nationality.\n\nJoint Palestinan-Israeli teams would be obligated to ensure that all\nacts were voluntary and promptly rewarded. The teams of Palestinian-Israel\nMorals Patrols, or PIMPS, would receive a percentage of the financial\nincome in order to encourage their participation and add to their\nincentive in locating suitable candidates.\n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nShouldn't that be insemination?\n\n", "\n\n\tHuh? Mohamed Salimeh was perhaps a Korean? How do you claim\narab-americans had no involvement in the WTC bombing?\n\n\tOk, his involvement is alleged by the FBI, which doesn't seem\nto reliable these days. But honestly, there is a pile of evidence\npointing to them, and it seems those 5 were involved.\n\n\tThis does not mean that all arab-americans were involved, nor\nshould they be blamed for it, but denying that there were some\narab-americans involved sounds sorta silly to me.\n\nAdam\nAdam Shostack \t\t\t\t adam@das.harvard.edu", ": >> WHO is Josie Hadas?\n: \n: \n: I see you didn't notice my recent posting.\n: \n: The FBI found that \"Josie Hadas\" was simply an alias taken by Salameh.\n: \n\nI have the sources for the information in the Chronology, including the\nNY Daily News of March 5 that reports the arrest of Josie Hadas and a\ncopy of the foreign press reports of her release shortly afterwards.\n\nWhat is the source for your alias story?\n\nAnd pray tell me how can the FBI arrest and release an alias?\n: \n: >> WHAT is the relationship between that person and the Israeli mussad?\n: \n: Zilch, zero, nothing. Like the IQ of the idiot who posted this absurdity in the\n: first place.", "I appeal to to all of you to show up in Washington DC. this saturday to\nparticipate in a peaceful demonstration for the sake of humanity!! This is a \ncritical point in the history of world and we can make a change otherwise things\nwill not change there in Bosnia.. Rapes/killings/ethnic cleansing will\ngo on as a norm in the days to follow. The UN will get to the towns after the fall\nof thousands of inocent civilians (like in Zapa just the past weekend!). It happened\nto the Jews in 1940's, it's happening to the muslims today and who will be the next\nvictim??\n\nSince the Europeans want to remain indifferent in this issue, time has come for US to\ntake a leadership role to stop these crimes against humanity. Time is now and\nthis is for real folks, the people of New England Bosnian Relief Committee seriously believe\nthat Clinton's Adminstration will stop supporting the Bosnian cause without sustained\npublic pressure. I just called Democaratic Sen. John Kerry's office and they are saying that \nhe (the senator) is waiting for president to take a decision, means that he will wait and \njoin the band-wagon later if it ever moves! \n\nPlease don't rely on others to take part in this demonstration -You as an individual\nwill make a big difference. Bring your families too, not only you will help a great\ncause but also it will be fun for all. I know of several families from Massachusetts\nwho are travelling friday night to participate there. Contact the local Islamic center\nor Bosnia relief agency if you want to travel by pre-arranged busses. The best option \nfor students is to rent-a-car and car-pool. Please, spread the word around...\n\n\n\nRegards,\n\nKhalid Chishti \n\nIf you live in Massachusetts and want more info:\n\nCall Ginan (from New England Bosnian Relief Committee): 617-623-1973 \nOR \nNew England Bosnian Relief Committee phone no: (617) 464-0111\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n", "\nNo we don't. They might be zealous, and maybe the bureau shouldn't\nexist by some people, but they ARE NOT NAZIS.\n\nWhy do people toss around the Nazi label so easily?\n\n", "\nOK. Lets look into this.\nAccording to my dictionary,\nZi-on-ism: an international movement orig. for the establishment of a Jewish\nnational or religious community in Palestine and later for the support of\nmodern Israel.\n\nNow, I do not support the establishment of nations based on religious \nprinciples, while I support the establishment of nations based on cultural\nidentities.\n\nSo. Here are some questions I have to ask for anyone to answer. My point\nis what someone said long time ago: In politics, like with men, it is important\nto distiguish between what they say they do and what they are actually\ndoing.\n\n1) My mother is Jewish (and so is my father). If I apply for the Law of\nReturn, do I get in as a Jew trying to return to his land, from which my\nfamily was expelled about 2000 years ago?\n2) If I go back, which nationality would my ID show?\n3) If I decided to go back to the land from which my relatives had been \nexpelled 2000 years ago, but first I convert to any other religion, can I \napply to the law of Return as a member of the Jewish Nation or should I \napply as someone whose mother is Jewish?\n4) Which nationality would show my ID in case 3)?\n5) What has change in me between the day before and the day after I converted\nto loose my being part of the Jewish Nation?\n6) Suppose I want to get married to my current wife, who is non-Jewish in\nIsrael, how do I do it?\n7) How would my situation change if I decided, after going back to\nIsrael, to convert to Islam?\n\n\nNow, here is one more question. I do believe that most people in a country\ndo not care about politics. They just want to be left alone.\nSuppose my father is Arab. Suppose he was born in Palestine, in some place \nwhich now is part of Israel. Suppose that his father, and his grandfather as\nwell as 20 or 30 generations before him were born in that place.\nNow suppose there is a war of independence and my father, scared by all the\nfighting going on, tries to take his family to a place more secure, among \npeople he knows, who speak a language he understands, who worship the same\ngod. Now, suppose that that place is some other Arab country. \nAnd, now suppose that the war is over and that there is a new country created\nwhere my father used to live, and that that country is called Israel.\nAnd, that in that country, Jews from all over the world are received. And\nthat people whose family left thet country 200 generation ago are recieved and\ngranted full-citizenship.\nShould I, if I decided to go back to my father's land, where he was born as\n20 or 30 generations of my family were born, have the right to go back and\nask to be recognized in the same way those who are returning after 2000\nyears?\n\nThen, finally, people ask me how I would define a Jew, but that is irrelevant.\nI am not talking about how I would define a Jew, but about how people in \nZionist organizations, and more important, in Israel, define a Jew.\nHow would those who are Zionist define a Jew? \n\n\n\n", "\nAnyone who can repeate this choice piece of tripe without checking\nhis/her sources does not deserve to be believed. The Gaza strip does\nnot possess the highest population density in the world. In fact, it\nisn't even close. Just one example will serve to illustrate the folly\nof this statement: the city of Hong Kong has nearly ten times the\npopulation of the Gaza strip in a roughly comparable land area. The\ncenters of numerous cities also possess comparable, if not far higher,\npopulation densities. Examples include Manhattan Island (NY City), Sao\nPaolo, Ciudad de Mexico, Bombay,... \n\nNeed I go on? The rest of Mr. Davidsson's message is no closer to the\ntruth than this oft-repeated statement is.\n", "It seems to me that many readers of this conference are interested\nwho is behind the Center for Polict Research. I will oblige.\n\nMy name is Elias Davidsson, Icelandic citizen, born in Palestine. My\nmother was thrown from Germany because she belonged to the 'undesirables'\n(at that times this group was defined as 'Jews'). She was forced to go\nto Palestine due to many cynical factors. I have meanwhile settled in\nIceland (30 years ago) and met many people who were thrown out from\nmy homeland, Palestine, because of the same reason (they belonged to\nthe 'indesirables'). These people include my neighbors in Jerusalem\nwith the children of whom I played as child. Their crime: Theyare\nnot Jews. My conscience does not accept such injustice, period. My\nwork for justice is done in the name of my principled opposition to racism\nand racial discrimination. Those who protest against such practices\nin Arab countries have my support - as long as their protest is based\non a principled position, but not as a tactic to deflect criticism\nfrom Israel. The struggle against discrimination and racism is universal.\n\nThe Center for Policy Research is a name I gave to those activities\nundertaken under my guidance in different domains, and which command\nthe support of many volunteers in Iceland. It is however not a formal\ninstitution and works with minimal funds.\n\nProfessionally I am music teacher and composer. I have published \nseveral pieces and my piano music is taught widely in Europe.\n\nI would hope that discussion about Israel/Palestine be conducted in\na more civilized manner. Calling names is not helpful.", "\nI think the problem here is that I pretty much ignored the part\nabout the Jews sightseeing for 2000 years, thinking instead that\nthe important part of what the original poster said was the bit\nabout killing Palestinians. In retrospect, I can see how the\nsightseeing thing would be offensive to many. I originally saw\nit just as poetic license, but it's understandable that others\nmight see it differently. I still think that Ken came on a bit\nstrong though. I also think that your advice to Masud Khan:\n\n #Before you argue with someone like Mr Arromdee, it's a good idea to\n #do a little homework, or at least think.\n\nwas unnecessary.\n\n\nThroughout all your articles in this thread there is the tacit\nassumption that the original poster was exhibiting casual\nanti-semitism. If I agreed with that, then maybe your speech\non why this is bad might have been relevant. But I think you're\nreading a lot into one flip sentence. While probably not\ntrue in this case, too often the charge of anti-semitism gets\nthrown around in order to stifle legitimate criticism of the\nstate of Israel.\n\nAnyway, I'd rather be somewhere else, so I'm outta this thread.", "Years ago I grabbed the following from the net - maybe from this\nnewsgroup. Does anyone know of a source for whether this is an\naccurate quote? Thanks! Bartletts leaves out the homosexual lines,\nbut they were one of the groups the Nazis tried to exterminate.\n===\nIn Germany, they first came for the communists,\nand I didn't speak up because I wasn't a communist.\nThen they came for the jews,\nand I didn't speak up because I wasn't a jew.\nThen they came for the trade unionists,\nand I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.\nThen they came for the homosexuals, and I didn't speak up\nbecause I wasn't a homosexual.\nThen they came for the catholics, and I didn't speak up\nbecause I was a protestant.\nThen they came for me ---\nbut by that time there was no one left to speak up.", "UN Resolution 666 guarantees humanitarian aid will get into Irag during\nthe Gulf War. Is this war over? Is aid getting in, or are they still\ntrying to smoke out Saddam? Is this the Middle East? Are we talking\nreligious war here? Am I ranting?", "\n\n\nPlease explain how the removal of Israel from the eqation is going to\nease the situation in Iran, Iran/Iraq, Iraq, Iraq/Kuwait, Syria,\nLebanon, Libya, Algeria, Egypt, Sudan ... Human rights, freedom of\npress and religion, slavery, government oppression in authoritarian\nsocieties -- how are these going to be solved by removing Israel\nfrom the Middle East?\n", "\n\nSo was it on CNN or not? \n\n\n\nWhat proof. You said above: \"was it not reported...\" and \"someone please give \nfull details if they can remember\". Hear say is not proof. \n\n\n\nYes, like the 700 or more Palestinians brutally murdered by their brothers.\n\n\n\n", "\n\nIf you consider Israeli reporting of events in Israel to be propoganda, then \nconsider the Washington Post's handling of American events to be propoganda\ntoo. What makes the Israeli press inherently biased in your opinion? I\nwouldn't compare it to Nazi propoganda either. Unless you want to provide\nsome evidence of Israeli inaccuracies or parallels to Nazism, I suggest you \nkeep your mouth shut. I'm sick and tired of all you anti-semites comparing\nIsrael to the Nazis (and yes, in my opinion, if you compare Israel to the Nazis\nyou are an anti-semite because you know damn well it isn't true and you are\njust trying to discredit Israel).", "\n\n\n\n\tIt was for the purpose of establishing a state, not an\nexclusive state. If the state was to be exclusive, it would not have\n400 000 arab citizens.\n\n\tAnd no, I do not consider the purchase of land a hostile\naction. When someone wants to buy land, and someone else is willing\nto sell it, at a mutually agreeable price, then that is commerce. It\nis not a hostile action leading to war.\n\n\n\tOh, you mean like both Jews and Arabs being citizens? The\narabs who stayed are now citizens, with as much right to choose who\nthey vote for as the Jews.\n\n\n\tHuh? The people who left, did so voluntarily. There is no\nreason for Israel to let them in.\n\n\n\tIsrael got no western aid in 1948, nor in 1949 or 50...It\nstill granted citizenship to those arabs who remained. And how\nis granting citizenship a facade?\n\n\n\n\tTry again, you tell me what its isn't, but you fail to\nestablish what it is.\n\n\tAlso, Jews did have history in Israel for over a thousand\nyears. There were lots of Jews slaughtered by Crusaders in Israel.\nThere was a thriving community in Gaza city from roughly 1200-1500.\nJews were a majority in Jerusalem from 1870 or so onwards. Does that\nmake the land Jewish?\n\nAdam\n\n\nAdam Shostack \t\t\t\t adam@das.harvard.edu", "\n\nIf he gives you the same story explaining the presence of several\nsynagogues in the \"Moslem Quarter\", then the story becomes suspect...\n\nIn reality, the Old City was not as neighborhooded in the past as it\nbecame after 1948. In pre-Israel Jerusalem, there were many Jews in\nwhat is now called the Moslem Quarter. There are postal and telephone\ndirectories from that time to prove it. It's really rather\ninteresting to hear Arabs there claim that a house or store has been\nin the family for centuries even when there are clear photos and\ndocuments that show a Jewish-owned business at the same location just\na few decades ago.\n", "\n\t Now I have a comment concerning Israeli terrorism\n during the 1930's and 1940's. The Hirgun, and other branch -\n off militant groups, did fight the British do get them out of\n Palestine. Yet I fail to see how this Israeli form of\n terrorism was better than the terrorism practiced now by the\n Arabs. These Jewish terrorist groups killed innocent British\n soldiers, but not only thta also killed many Jews who were in\n favor of a compromise with the Palestinians.\n\nThe Irgun killed SOLDIERS, which is a legitimate way to drive an unwanted\nfogriend regime from a country. They didn't kill blindly their families or\nsuch (not as a policy, I agree that brits which were not soldiers also were\nkilled sometimes) nor they killed Arabs just for being Arabs.\n\nIn case I have to remind you the difference, the majority of the attacks of\nthe Arab terrorist organizations was on civilians. They even tried to\njustify their attacks by saying that all Jews in the Israel served in the army\nat one point in time or another and therefore are legitimate targets.\n\n In addition, they\n massacred an entire Palestinian village in 1948, contributing\n to the exodus of the frightened Palestinians who feared their\n very lives.\n\nYes, these exceptions were tragic mistakes. I wasn't there and don't have\nreffereces handy but from what I heard your description is a bit carried away,\nmost of the vilagers fled with several dozens, most of them claimed to be\nfighters being killed.\n\nThose \"massaceres\" are far from being the rule considering that dozens if not\nhounders of Arab vilages came under Israeli rule during the same time period.\n\n\t I mention this not because I'm anti semitic [I'm part\n Jewish] but because this self righteousness on the part of the\n Israelites pisses me off so. I'm not as critical of the\n Palestinians because they were indeed screwed over by the\n Jews. It 's a damn shame that the Palestinians had to pay for\n German and European anti semitism.\n\nWhat do you mean \"screwed over by the Jews\"? They began the '47 war and\ndidn't accept the arrgenment planned by the U.N., what did you expect the\nJews to do??\n\n\t\t\t\t Pissed off at Immature,\n\t\t\t Closeminded, Self righteous\n\t\t\t\t Semites\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nArabs are also Semites.", "\nAnd is there a reason or value for such a brainless shit for brains asshole\nto be haer. You are a self hating bastard. Neither your name nor your\nideas, which I've come across before and thought were too stupid and \nuncivlized to respond to, prove your first-worldist claim and civility.\n\n\nGive me sources to read it or shut up. You think I will take such an\nignorant as yourself on his words??\n\n\nThere is nothing primitive about Islam except in your mind. I do read and\nlive daily with disagreable facts, and I only ask them to prove themselves.\nThe last time I checked, this was truly a 1st-worldist civilized approach to\nfacts and figures. I did not whine about the jews, I merely stated a fact\nthet is strange to nobody. As far as me being jerk, FUCK YOU. (Sorry to\nother people that read this).\n\n\nI am at home fuck face. my name does not mean I am from somewhere else,\nexcept in your litte manute stupid brain. And while we are at names,\nyours does not particularly seem to be 1st-worldist. Ajami?? What's that\n? Arabic?? As I said you must be ashamed of what you are. You must\nreally hate yourself don't you ass-hole??\n\nMohammed", "\nYou *know* that putting something like this out on the newsgroup is *only*\ngoing to generate flames, not discussion. Try adding some substance to\nthe issue of \"gestures\" you mentioned.\n\nWhat is it you feel that Israel *has* offered as a \"gesture\"? What would\nyou (*realistically*) expect to see presented by the Arabs/Palestinians\nin the way of \"gesture\"?\n\n\nWhat are the \"rules\" that have been bent by Arab actions? It would seem\nthat the Israeli deportations were seen by the other side as an example\nof \"changing the rules\". \n\n", "\n\nThe problem if transffering US government files about Yigal Arens\nand some other similar persons does or does not violate a federal\nor a local American law seemed to belong to some local american law\nforum not to this forum.\nThe readers of this forum seemed to be more interested in the contents\nof those files.\nSo It will be nice if Yigal will tell us:\n1. Why do American authorities consider Yigal Arens to be dangerous?\n2. Why does the ADL have an interest in that person ?\n3. If one does trust either the US government or the ADL what an\n additional information should he send them ?\n", "\nThere are doubts about it. Why don't you define what self-hating Jew means?\nI found the idea itself of being a self-hating Jew to be one of those\nrediculous things that people repeat and repeat because it seems to have a\nmeaning when in fact it has none.\nI hope you can come up with a definition in itself and not something like:\nlook at this person, that is a self-hating Jew.\n\n\nThat is why I get moved when I see the Israeli Army killing people in \nthe Occupied Territories as much as I get moved when I see a Plestinian\nstabing people in Israel.", "\n# 3. Is it true that Israeli stocks nuclear weapons ? If so,\n# could you provide any evidence ?\n\nYes, Israel has nuclear weapons. However:\n\n1) Their use so far has been restricted to killing deer, by LSD addicted\n \"Cherrie\" soldiers.\n\n2) They are locked in the cellar of the \"Garinei Afula\" factory, and since\n the Gingi lost the key, no one can use them anymore.\n\n3) Even if the Gingi finds the key, the chief Rabbis have a time lock\n on the bombs that does not allow them to be activated on the Sabbath\n and during weeks which follow victories of the Betar Jerusalem soccer\n team. A quick glance at the National League score table will reveal\n the strategic importance of this fact.", "(Frank DeCenso)\n\n\nHow incredibly fucking stupid. Of *course* the text is referring to the city\nitself (buildings, bricks, mortar, etc.) Otherwise it makes no sense to\nrefer to the future of Tyre as being reduced to nothing but a _place_ to spread \nfishing nets.", "From: Center for Policy Research \nSubject: rejoinder. Questions to Israelis\n\n\nDear Josh\n\nI appreciate the fact that you sought to answer my questions.\n\nHaving said that, I am not totally happy with your answers.\n\n1. You did not fully answer my question whether Israeli ID cards\nidentify the holders as Jews or Arabs. You imply that U.S.\ncitizens must identify themselves by RACE. Is that true ? Or are\njust trying to mislead the reader ? Do you know of any democratic\ncountry where people are asked to reveal their ethnical or\nreligious identity to any public official who so requests ?\n\n2. The answer to the second question is evasive. There are all\nkinds of maps issued. They are not equivalent to State policy.\nYou did not respond to my question.\n\n3. Your answer to the third question (Israeli nuclear arsenal) is\ninteresting. You say that Israeli 'probably' stocks nuclear\nweapons. What evidence have you for maintaining that ?\n\n4. My fourth question was answered by someone else who posted a\nMa'ariv article documenting such cases. I did not ask about cases\nlike Vanunu (everybody knew he was tried and imprisoned) but about\nthose about whom nobody even knows that they have been tried and\nimprisoned.\n\n5. Thanks for clarifying the question concerning the legal status\nof the inhabitants of the occupied territories. From it I\nunderstand that there are two sets of laws in these ares, one for\nthe occupier (civil law) and one for the occupied (military law).\nThe law allows Israeli Arabs to settle in Hebron, it seems. If so,\nwhy doesn't it allow Hebron Arabs to settle in Israel ?\n\n6. Your answer to the question concerning rights to return\nconflicts with what I was told, namely that hundreds of thousands\nof non-Jews who left for some reason or other the area under\nIsrael control during the war of 1947-8, were prevented from\nreturning for the sole reason they were not Jews. Jews who also\nleft, for example to Europe, to avoid the clashes, were allowed to\nreturn. How can you justify such discrimination, if this is true ?\nIs the mere fact of a person leaving area of combat to seek refuge\nsomewhere else a reason for stripping him of his right to live in\nhis homeland ?\n\n7. Somebody answered my 7.question regarding Y. Rabin signing an\norder for ethnical cleansing in 1948. According to that\ninformation, Y. Rabin signed the order for the expulsion of all\ninhabitants of Lydda and Ramleh, about 50,000 people. These\nexpulsions were helped by massacres of civilians and other\natrocities which remind Bosnia. I was referred to a book by\nIsraeli journalist Benny Goodman called The Origin of the\nPalestinian Refugee Problem, published by Cambridge University\nPress. Is this book available in your library ?\n\n8. You maintain that there are some Israeli Arabs living in\nIsraeli kibbutzim. I wonder how many and where. There is very\nlittle evidence available about that. As much as I know, many\nArabs are working *for* kibbutzim, even for many years, but are\nnot accepted as members. Could it be that kibbutzim do not want\nArabs ?\n\n9. My question about the lack of civil marriage in Israel was\nwhether it is true that the Israeli legislator intended to\ndiscourage intermarriage. You did not address this question but\nevaded it by saying that the 'entire religious establishment wants\nto keep it what way'. I am certain that if only religious\ncommunities in the U.S. would be asked, they would gladly abolish\ncivil marriage so that people would depend upon rabbis and priests\nto officiate marriages. But Israel has always been ruled by a\nsecular majority. Your answer is not satisfactory.\n\n\nI would be glad to have some more input from you after these\ncomments.", "Gulf has changed the third parts's perception of Arabs.\n1. Before, people tended to think Arabs have tough character. After seeing\nIraqis begging for surrender, people do not gave Arabs much weight.\n2. People tended to think Arabs are a united people in fighting Isrealis.\nAfter Gulf War, seeing some Arab nations beated up Iraqis in order to\nwaiver the debt to U.S. and Kuwaitis consistly trying to draw West nations\nto hit Iraq again, people started to see Arab World as a dog cage, echoing\nsound of barking.\n", "\n\tThere is something almost comical in the fact that Yigal Arens is \nimportant enough to have the ADL and G-d knows who else sifting through his \ngarbage (which happens to be legal; you throw it out, it ain't yours any more).\n\n\tThis brings to mind a few possibilities other than the ADL connection:\n\n\t- it is all in Arens' mind.\n\t- Bullock may have been working for Arens' friend in the PLO\n\t- Arens' father (or is it brother?) Moshe Arens (former Israeli Defense \nMinister) was spying on him.\n\t- Arens hired Bullock to spy on him to get attention.\n\n\tIn any case, who cares?", "\n\n\n\nThen by your logic, the Jews in Europe in the 1930's were the cause for\nthe Holocaust. Hitler told them to leave and because they didn't they\nbrought the whole thing on themselves. Because as you say, they could\nhave COME OUT of Germany.\n\n\n\n\nSame for the Jews in Europe 1930's.\n\n\nYou don't see any evidence of the abuse -- therefore it must be taking place?\nAs you point out everwhere but here, it is irrelevant to this case. The\nATF is not in charge of investigating child abuse.\n\n\n\nIn obvious contradiction to the statements made by the F. B. I.\n\n\nAnd just what are those actions that you are judging them by?\nTheir refusal to let the government control their lives? Their refusal\nto submit to unconstitutional laws? Their refusal to behave like\ncowards? Some of Texas' heros could have taken the cowardly way\nout too and surrendered the Alamo. After all, all they had to do was\nCOME OUT. They stayed as you say by their \"OWN CHOICE\". Problem\nis not everyone chooses to act like a groveling dog in the face of\ninsurmountable odds. But as you point out, they certainly do have\nthat right. \n\n\nBull. They did, in fact, live a quiet, religious life -- as they claimed.\nThe warrant was not issued because they \"stockpiled weapons\". It is\nnot against the law to own as many guns as you want -- yet (Except in \nVirginia).The warrant was issued for some \"gun parts\" that are about the size \nof a half-dollar. Certainly worth the lives of so many people, don't you \nthink?\n\n\nYou can forget that WE business. I certainly do blame them.\n", "# \n# >This issue has been going on for a while and your presentation here of\n# >just one reference probably won't resolve this issue to those that\n# >oppose your insistence that mosques *were* destroyed. Even in your\n# >location of this one reference, you spend most of your quote dealing\n# >with an incidence that, while abhorrant, has nothing to do with the \n# >issue at hand here. Then, at the end of the quote, there is an almost\n# >off-hand comment that \"two mosques\" were destroyed.\n# >\n# >To support a claim of this nature, what other authors support this\n# >incident? If identifiable mosques were destroyed they are certainly\n# >identifiable, they have names and addresses (steet location). The\n# >comment by one reporter *does* make us wonder if \"this happened\" but\n# >by no means \"proves it.\n# \n# There is no doubt that Israeli authorities ordered the destruction of\n# mosques in the vicinity of the Wailing Wall. That does not mean,\n# however, that once can generalize from this to any other points. The\n# entire plaza, mosques and all, was cleared to make it possible for Jews\n# to have a place to worship in the place that was holiest to many of\n# them, and which had been denied to them for millenia.\n# \n# On the other hand, throughout the rest of Jerusalem and Israel, to the\n# best of my knowledge, Israeli authorities have scrupulously avoided\n# damage to any Islamic religious sites. This contrasts with the policies\n# of previous regimes which destroyed Jewish synagogues out of hate and\n# bigotry.\n\n Or, for that matter, with the USA. Around here, nobody reroutes\n freeways to avoid churches, synagogues, and so forth. They just\n get condemned, paid off, and the road goes through. The same is\n standard policy for any number of other public projects: schools\n and sports arenas being only two examples.\n\n Anticipating the objection that the cases aren't comparable: how\n not? The Wall has to count as the #1 tourist attraction in that\n part of the world; making room for the traffic would be a twenty\n second decision for any city council I ever heard of.", "\nLet's see, if Alexander destroyed Tyre, and people move back, and\nthey construct houses, and after a while 14000 people live there\nand still call it Tyre, it is not considered to be rebuilt. Instead\nit's considered to be 'just-some-people-that-got-together-for-fishing-\nand-they-needed-houses' place.\n\n\nSigh, I was never born in a city then (my home town has 10.000\npeople). I have to consult my city and inform them that it's from\nnow a fishing village. When this city (Kristinestad) was founded\nin the 17:th century about 1000 people lived there, so the norms\nwere even more bizarre for dumb Swedish queens who founded cities\nalong the coast of Finland.\n\nI would like to know why Paul thought is was worth mentioning the \nsmall fishing place of Tyre in Acts. Again, maybe he was a keen\nfisherman and wanted to visit the shores of Tyre? :-)\n\nCheers,\nKent", "sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes...\n\n\n\nWhich Jews KS? \n\n(ex. as a people, as a language, religiously, politically, or...) \n\nDo you mean those Jews who are God's chosen?\n\n{And Malcolm, please, if you will, set your word wrap at 75 or less \nto avoid clutter?}", "\nWell Bosnia and the US did...the UN cannot impose blue berets on\na country, and the US has voted for the current policy and mandate\nin the Security Council...and could have said no if it wanted to...\nit has a veto.\n\nClinton has not demanded the removal of the UN forces...because he want\nto have his cake and eat it too...he wants to dictate policy but\nnot be responsible for the policy he wants to dictate. If Clinton\nasks for the blue berets to leave, then he Bill Clinton becomes\nresponsible for what happens...him and Sen. Biden and their friends\nwho want to fight the war from 10,000 ft...as long as the blue berets\nare there Clinton can use Europe as a scapegoat for American\nindecisiveness.\n\nI fully admit that the current UN policy approved by all the major\npowers including the US may be wrong or inappropriate...but these\n\"back-seat drivers\" in the US like Clinton and Biden are just a bunch\nof hypocrites looking for an gimmick to look like they are doing \nsomething to assuage their own consciences and those who are\ndemanding action or leadership...and most European leaders are\nsmart enough to know the difference between American hot air and\nAmerican leadership.\n\n\nWell, if Biden is so outraged...why the hell doesn't he do something\nabout it...where is his resolution in the US Senate for a declaration\nof war or the commitment of US forces and troops. Biden is just\nfull of hot air. ", "Mark Ira Kaufman writes\n\nNever mind the fact that these people were denied the right to a fair trial. \nAnd Israel was supposed to uphold \"Western values\", eh?\n\n\nCheck your facts before bashing Islam again. While there may be Muslim \nanti-semites, this is no way a tenet of the religion. Saying anti-semitism is \n\"basic\" to Islam is implicating the entire Muslim world, based on a selective \nsampling of a few people, and it flies in the face of what Islam teaches.\n\nPeace.\n--", "\nPlease cite specific examples where an Arab party member was rejected\nwhile a Jewish party member was accepted. If you examine these I am\nsure you will discover that the Arab party member did not have the power\nbase that his Jewish counterpart had. The party structure in Israel\nhas changed quite a bit insofar as knesset member elections go. Knesset\nmembers for most parties are now elected via primaries. The top standing\nmembers end up with cabinet posts. This is purely a political power\nissue. Check the ranking of Arab labor party members, as opposed\nto Jewsih members and let me know which posts are held by Jews that\nranked lower in the party than their Arab fellow electees.\n\nOnce again, if for arguments sake, all the Arab Israelis were to vote\nfor Labor at the next election, you can rest assured that the number of\nArab MKs and cabinet members would increase proportionately to the\npower shift.\n\n\nYou are overlooking the fact that they wield political power\nas individuals based upon a wider collective power base.\n\n\nThe reasoning I see at work is purely political. As far as security\ngoes I think that some serious gaffs were made by right wing Jews\nas well - e.g. Sharon.\n", "\nNot exactly the same, but reminiscent of the assassination of Count\nBernadotte, who was _the_ UN negotiator during the 1948 Israeli war of\nindependence. He was killed by the Israelis. Seems he was being too\nsuccessful in negotiating a cease-fire, which would have worked\nterritorially against the nascent Israel, compared to continued war.", "\nParts of Sen. Biden's statement were quoted by the Washington Post today:\n\n Let me put it plainly, Mr. Secretary. You are required to speak\n diplomatically; I am not. I cannot even begin to express to you\n my contempt for a European policy that is now asking us to \n participate in what amounts to a codification of the Serbian victory.\n ...\n What you have encountered is a discouraging mosaic of indifference,\n timidity, self-delusion and hypocrisy.\n ...\n After they held our coats on Kuwait and Somalia, they are asking us\n to put in a few thousand troops on the ground in order to have the\n right to speak and in order to implement their new idea of 'safe\n havens' for the Bosnians...\n Let's not mince words. European policy is based on cultural and\n religious indifference, if not bigotry. And I think it's fair to say\n that this would be an entirely different situation if the Muslims\n were doing what the Serbs have done, if this was Muslim aggression\n instead of Serbian aggression.\n\nToo bad the Washington Post did not include his next sentence, which \npointed out that a consequence of such policy is a rising anger\nwithin the Islamic world, the consequences of which we cannot begin\nto predict. Later, Biden told a reporter why he spoke out:\n\n I think someone has to respond to Europe to make it clear\n this is a big deal... so they will understand.\n\nand it IS a big deal. By refusing the fundamental human right of\nself-defense to Bosnia-Herzegovina, Europe and the world have \naided the Serbian aggression. Moreover, the arms embargo has\nforced a situation in which Bosnian Serbs have 10 times more heavy\nweaponry than Bosnian Croats and Muslims combined. Under such\nconditions, it is very easy for Serbs to play a \"divide-and-conquer\"\ngame, and to get the Muslims and Croats (who have strong common\ninterests and who were allied against the Serbian aggression) \nto start fighting each other, which leads to their mutual catastrophe.\n\nOne final quote: U.S. Secretary of State, Warren Christopher, has\nsaid in Rome last week that \"In practice, the embargo had the opposite\neffect intended. It made aggression certain.\"\n\nAll diplomats who deluded themselves that they could negotiate peace\nwhile enforcing a 10:1 imbalance of power on the ground have contributed\nto this tragedy.\n", "Organization: Aiken Computation Lab, Harvard University\nKeywords: \n\n\n\tIsrael has a right to keep Jerusalem for many reasons. They\ninclude the fact that the majority of the citizens are Israeli, the\nfact that Israel maintains religious freedom for all people, and the\nhistorical connection of Judaism to Jerusalem.\n\n\tWhen Jerusalem was devided by a Jordanian invasion in 1948,\nthe cease fire agreement included the right of individuals to visit\nreligious shrines. This cease fire agreement was violated by Jordan,\nwho did not allow Jews to visit holy sites under their control. The\nJordanians also bulldozed every synagoge in the city. They turned a\nJewish cemetary into a hotel, and used the gravestones in their\nlatrines.\n\n\tIsrael has allowed individuals of all religions into\nJerusalem, protected holy sites, and demonstrated its fitness to\ncontrol the city.\n\n\tAlso, I should point out that Islam is not centered in\nJerusalem, but has holy sites there. The home of Islam is Mecca,\nwhere all Muslims should make a pilgramage (the hajj). Unlike Israeli\nJerusalem, Jews and Christians are not allowed in Saudi Mecca.\n\nAdam\n\nAdam Shostack \t\t\t\t adam@das.harvard.edu", "If we can't avoid throwing out gut-reactions to what we see as \"extremist\"\nviews here in the newsgroup, we're certainly not going to be any better at\nit in the real world. Hey, it easy here. After reading the offending post, \nwe can step back, take some deep breathing exercises, have a gallon of\nice cream (or sex, whichever calmsus), and reply in something other\nthan the usual king-of-the-hill mentality. \n\nPerhaps, starting here with an immediate \"accusation\" is not a particularly\ngood way to generate open responses? How about explaining what you see as\nbeing Israel's *real worries* and how they *need* to be addressed? Since\nthe \"other side\" sees Israel's \"gestures\" in a completely different light\nthan you do, perhaps \"they\" also have *real worries*. From their point\nof view, what are they? How can those worries be addressed? \n\nIt is certainly much harder to \"reach compromise\" (or, even sit down\nand talk with...) an other side which is fractured into several\ndifferent ideologies, each with its own set of \"demands\". While it is\nup to \"them\" to generate unity on their side, is there anything that\nIsrael can do (without sacrificing its security, its position) to\nencourage that unification along lines that Israel prefers?\n\n", "\nTell me Tim, what are these guerillas doing wrong? Assuming that they are using\ncivilians for cover, are they not killing SOLDIERS in THEIR country? If the\nbuffer zone is to prevent attacks on Israel, is it not working? Why is it \nfurther neccessary for Israeli guns to pound Lebanese villages? Why not just\nkill those who try to infiltrate the buffer zone? You see, there is more to\nthe shelling of the villages.... it is called RETALIATION... \"GETTING BACK\"\n...\"GETTING EVEN\". It doesn't make sense to shell the villages. The least\nit shows is a reckless disregard by the Israeli government for the lives of\ncivilians.\n\n\n\n\nIf Israel is not willing to accept the \"word\" of others then, IMHO, it has\nno business wasting others' time coming to the peace talks. \n\n\nNo, I am not Basil. I think Basil is a very intelligent person and I\nrespect what he writes. Basil is a person that I would gladly call\na friend. He is, however, not me. Nor am I Lebanese, as some seem to\nsuspect.\n \n\nTim, you are ignoring the fact that the Palestinians in Lebanon have been\ndisarmed. Hezbollah remains the only independent militia. Hezbollah does\nnot attack Israel except at a few times such as when the IDF burned up\nSheikh Mosavi, his wife, and young son. Of course, if Israel would withdraw\nfrom Lebanon and stop assassinating people and shelling villages they wouldn't\nmake the Lebanese so mad as to do that. Furthermore, with Hezbollah \nsubsequently disarmed, it would not be possible.\n\n\nTim, when is the last time that you recall any trouble on the Syrian border?\nNot lately, eh?\n\nIsrael knows very well that the Syrians are able to restrain ALL who would use\nterritory under their control to attack Israel. While Lebanon would be better\noff with Syria and Israel out of its borders, the presence of Syrian troops\nin Lebanon has meant a sharp decrease in attacks on Israeli territory (not on\nIsraeli troops in Lebanon, however. Please note the distinction) in the\npast two years.\n\n\nI disagree, Basil has always seemed to me to be a cool-headed person, slow\nto anger (certainly more so than I). What is most important is that he is an \nactual witness to things from the other end of the Israeli guns. If only the \nIsraeli government would remember what it was like when the roles were \nreversed perhaps they would moderate their \"retaliation\".", "\n\nAnas, of course ! The YAHUD needed blood for the matza. After all, Passover\n*was* last month :-)\n\nWhy don't you give us your National Geographic travelogue of your recent trip\nto \"Palestine\" ? Or are you too disappointed by what you saw ? :-)\n\nJosh\nbackon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL\n\n\n\n\n\n", "\n\n\tAnd all this time I thought it was the US & Britian invading\nNormandy, the constant, round the clock bombing, and the fact that the\nGermans were fighting on two fronts. How silly of me. :)\n\n\tThis is not to devalue the actions of the resistance\nmovements, but resistance movements did not defeat the Nazis.\n\n\n\tIsrael has repeatedly stated that it will leave when the\nLebanese government shows that it can prevent attacks on Israel, and\nwhen the Syrians agree to leave.\n\n\tThe Lebanese have not tried diplomacy for very long, or maybe\nthey're not capable of getting rid of the Syrians and Iranians who\noccupy their land. If they closed down the Hezbolah, and negotiated a\nwithdrawl of Syrian forces, Israel would be happy to leave.\n\nAdam\n\nAdam Shostack \t\t\t\t adam@das.harvard.edu", "From: Center for Policy Research \nSubject: Unconventional peace proposal\n\n\nA unconventional proposal for peace in the Middle-East.\n---------------------------------------------------------- by\n\t\t\t Elias Davidsson\n\nThe following proposal is based on the following assumptions:\n\n1. Fundamental human rights, such as the right to life, to\neducation, to establish a family and have children, to human\ndignity, the right to free movement, to free expression, etc. are\nmore important to human existence that the rights of states.\n\n2. In the event of a conflict between basic human rights and\nrights of collectivities, basic human rights should prevail.\n\n3. Between the collectivities defining themselves as\nJewish-Israeli and Palestinian-Arab, however labelled, an\nunresolved conflict exists.\n\n4. This conflict has caused great sufferings for millions of\npeople. It moreover poisons relations between communities, peoples\nand nations.\n\n5. Each year, the United States expends billions of dollars\nin economic and military aid to the conflicting parties.\n\n6. Attempts to solve the Israeli-Arab conflict by traditional\npolitical means have failed.\n\n7. As long as the conflict is perceived as that between two\ndistinct ethnical/religious communities/peoples which claim the\nland, there is no just nor peaceful solution possible.\n\n8. Love between human beings can be capitalized for the sake\nof peace and justice. When people love, they share.\n\nHaving stated my assumptions, I will now state my proposal.\n\n1. A Fund should be established which would disburse grants\nfor each child born to a couple where one partner is Israeli-Jew\nand the other Palestinian-Arab.\n\n2. To be entitled for a grant, a couple will have to prove\nthat one of the partners possesses or is entitled to Israeli\ncitizenship under the Law of Return and the other partner,\nalthough born in areas under current Isreali control, is not\nentitled to such citizenship under the Law of Return.\n\n3. For the first child, the grant will amount to $18.000. For\nthe second the third child, $12.000 for each child. For each\nsubsequent child, the grant will amount to $6.000 for each child.\n\n\n4. The Fund would be financed by a variety of sources which\nhave shown interest in promoting a peaceful solution to the\nIsraeli-Arab conflict, including the U.S. Government, Jewish and\nChristian organizations in the U.S. and a great number of\ngovernments and international organizations.\n\n5. The emergence of a considerable number of 'mixed'\nmarriages in Israel/Palestine, all of whom would have relatives on\n'both sides' of the divide, would make the conflict lose its\nethnical and unsoluble core and strengthen the emergence of a\ntruly civil society. The existence of a strong 'mixed' stock of\npeople would also help the integration of Israeli society into the\nMiddle-East in a graceful manner.\n\nObjections to this proposal will certainly be voiced. I will\nattempt to identify some of these:\n\n1. The idea of providing financial incentives to selected\nforms of partnership and marriage, is not conventional. However,\nit is based on the concept of affirmative action, which is\nrecognized as a legitimate form of public policy to reverse the\nperverse effects of segregation and discrimination. International\nlaw clearly permits affirmative action when it is aimed at\nreducing racial discrimination and segregation.\n\n2. It may be objected that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict\nis not primarily a religious or ethnical conflict, but that it is\na conflict between a colonialist settler society and an indigenous\ncolonized society that can only regain its freedom by armed\nstruggle. This objection is based on the assumption that the\n'enemy' is not Zionism as ideology and practice, but\nIsraeli-Jewish society and its members which will have to be\ndefeated. This objection has no merit because it does not fulfill\nthe first two assumptions concerning the primacy of fundamental\nhuman rights over collective rights (see above)\n\n3. Fundamentalist Jews would certainly object to the use of\nfinancial incentives to encourage 'mixed marriages'. From their\npoint of view, the continued existence of a specific Jewish People\noverrides any other consideration, be it human love, peace of\nhuman rights. The President of the World Jewish Congress, Edgar\nBronfman, reflected this view a few years ago in an interview he\ngave to Der Spiegel, a German magazine. He called the increasing\nassimilation of Jews in the world a , comparable in its\neffects only with the Holocaust. This objection has no merit\neither because it does not fulfill the first two assumptions (see\nabove)\n\n4. It may objected that only a few people in\nIsrael/Palestine, would request such grants and that it would thus\nnot serve its purpose. To this objection one might respond that\nalthough it is not possible to determine with certainty the effect\nof such a proposal, the existence of such a Fund would help mixed\ncouples to resist the pressure of their respective societies and\nencourage young couples to reject fundamentalist and racist\nattitudes.\n\n5. It may objected that such a Fund would need great sums to\nbring about substantial demographic changes. This objection has\nmerits. However, it must be remembered that huge sums, more than\n$3 billion, are expended each year by the United States government\nand by U.S. organizations to maintain an elusive peace in the\nMiddle-East through armaments. A mere fraction of these sums would\nsuffice to launch the above proposal and create a more favorable\nclimate towards the existence of 'mixed' marriages in\nIsrael/Palestine, thus encouraging the emergence of a\nnon-segregated society in that worn-torn land.\n\nI would be thankful for critical comments to the above proposal as\nwell for any dissemination of this proposal for meaningful\ndiscussion and enrichment.", "I will again *repeat* my statement: 1) I *do not* condone these \n*indiscriminate* Israeli acts (nor have I *ever*, 2) If the villagers do not know who these \"guerillas\" are (which you stated earlier), how do you expect the\nIsraelis to know? It is **very** difficult to \"identify\" who they are (this\n*is why* the \"guerillas\" prefer to lose themselves in the general population \nby dressing the same, acting the same, etc.).\nI agree; but, because Lebanon was either unwilling or unable to stop these\nattacks from its territory should Israel simply sit quietly and accept its\nsituation? Israel asked the Lebanese government over and over to control\nthis \"third party state\" within Lebanese territory and the attacks kept\noccuring. At **what point** does Israel (or ANY state) have the right to do\nsomething ITSELF to stop such attacks? Never?\nIt is also the responsibility of *any* state to NOT ALLOW *any* outside\nparty to use its territory for attacks on a neighboring state. If 1) Angola\nhad the power, and 2) South Africa refused (or couldn't) stop anti-Angolan\nguerillas based on SA soil from attacking Angola, and 3) South Africa\nrefused to have UN troops stationed on its territory between it and Angola,\nwould Angola be justified in entering SA? If not, are you saying that\nAngola HAD to accept the situation, do NOTHING and absorb the attacks?\nI refered above *at all times* to the Palestinian attacks on Israel from\nLebanese soil, NOT to Lebanese attacks on Israel. \n\nOne hopes that a Lebanese government will be strong enough to patrol its \nborder but there is NO reason to believe it will be any stronger. WHAT HAS \nCHANGED is that the PLO was largely *driven out* of Lebanon (not by the \nLebanese, not by Syria) and THAT is by far the most important making it \nEASIER to control future Palestinian attacks from Lebanese soil. That\n**change** was brought about by Israeli action; the PLO would *never*\nhave been ejected by Lebanese, Arab state or UN actions. \nI fully recognize that the Lebanese do NOT WANT to be \"used\" by EITHER side,\nand have been (and continue to be). But the most fundamental issue is that\nif a state cannot control its borders and make REAL efforts to do so, it\nshould expect others to do it for them. Hopefully that \"other\" will be\nthe UN but it is (as we see in its cowardice regarding Bosnia) weak.", "\n\nGee, I'd better tell this to the Mental Health Branch of the Israeli Army\nMedical Corps ! Where would we be without you, Davidson ?\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nSigh.\n\nFour (4) deer in Tel Aviv ?? Well, this is probably as accurate as the rest of\nthis fantasy.\n\n\n\n\n\n\nYisrael Shahak the crackpot chemist ? Figures. I often see him in the\nRechavia (Jerusalem) post office. A really sad figure. Actually, I feel sorry\nfor him. He was in a concentration camp during the Holocaust and it must have\naffected him deeply.\n\n\n", "\n Actually Judea and Samaria are proper geographical names, just like \n Asia Minor or Lake Michigan. Judea and Samaria are even used in \n an atlas published in (what used to be) USSR circa 1970 that I have at\n home. The government of the USSR was of course quite hostile towards\n Israel and would hardly engage in a pro-Israel propaganda. I would be\n willing to mail a photocopy of the relevant page to Mr. Schmidling \n with relevant words underlined to simplify his search, if he promises\n to report to the net afterwards.\n\nMr. Schmidling is to be congtatualted for being living exception to this\ngeneral rule. For although he is almost without peer in both the number\nof lies posted and in the number of times he repeats them --- he hasn't \nfound many people who believe his lies (yet ?).\n", "\nWhat gives the US the right to keep New York? It is the home of the\nUnited Nations as well as being home to a myriad of ethnic groups.\n\n(Actually, NYC is more comparable to the Gaza Strip; the controlling\nauthority would probably be pleased as punch to unload it on someone\nelse -- but no-one seems to want it! :-)\n\n\nA-historical bullshit. Shamir fought the British (who, incidentally,\nshipped whole shiploads of Jews back to the Nazis for extermination\nand hung those Jewish fighters that they captured and didn't want to\ndeal with anymore). Shamir did not attack civilians on airliners,\ncruise ships, in airports, sports events, movie theaters, markets,\non buses and children in schoolyards. Your comparison to a Master\nMurderer like Abu Nidal is BLIND!\n", " >>I'm surprised that you don't consider the acquisition of land by\n >>the Jews from arabs, for the purpose of establishing an exclusive\n >>state, as a hostile action leading to war.\n\n\nCould you please tell me what was the ethnic composition of \nIsrael right after it was formed. \n\n\n\nNo one in his right mind would sell his freedom and dignity.\nPalestinians are no exception. Perhaps you heard about\nanti-trust in the business world.\n\nSince we are debating the legality of a commercial\ntransaction, we must use the laws governing the guidelines\nand ethics of such transactions. Basic ANTI-TRUST law says\nthat, while you can purchase IBM stocks for the purpose of\ninvesting, you can not acquire a large number of those\nshares with the intent or controlling IBM. You can do so\nonly if you make your intentions CLEAR apriori . Clearly,\nthe Jews who purchased properties from palastenians had some\ndesigns, they were not buying a dwelling or a real estate.\nThey were establishing a bridgehead for the European Jews.\n\nThe palastenians sold their properties to the Jews in the\nold tradition of arab hospitality. Being a multi-ethnic /\nmulti-religious society, accepting the jews as neighbours\nwas no different, just another religion. Plus they paid fair\nmarket value, etc... They did not know they were victims of\nan international conspiracy. (I'm not a conspiracy theorist\nmyself, but this one is hard to dismiss).\n\n\n\n\nAgain Adam, the devil is in the details. I don't want to get\non a tangent here but its the same reasonning that says its\nOK to return 100 deportes and leave the rest. Because 100 is\na nice number that you can devide by 10, 100 and besides, it\nhas an integer square root.\n\n\n\nDo you actually believe this? My experience tells me that\nevery palestinian I knew still keeps the key to his home, in\nPalestine. Besides they often refer to their exodus as an\nescape from hell (so to speak). I know none that agrees with\nyou. Did you sample their opinions? I know you don't care,\njust being rethorical.\n\n\n\n\nDon't get me wrong. I beleive that Israel is democratic\nwithin the constraints of one dominant ethnic group (Jews).\nIsrael probably had a few options after 1948: ethnic\ncleansing Serbian style, and deserve the wrath of the\ninternational community, or make the best out of a no win\ncondition: show the world how good Israel is towards the\n'bad' arabs. Personaly, I've never heard anything about the\narab community in Isreal. Except that they're there. So\nyes, they're there. But as a community with history and\nroots, its dead.\n\n\n\n\n\n\nI stand corrected. I meant that the jewish culture was not\npredominant in Palestine in recent history. I have no\nproblem with Jerusalem having a jewish character if it were\npredominantly Jewish. So there. what to make of the rest\nPalestine?\n\n\n\n-- \nSam Zbib Bell-Northern Research\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\nBitnet/Internet: zbib@bnr.ca VOICE: (613) 763-5889\n FAX: (613) 763-2626\nSurface Mail: Stop 162, P.O.Box 3511, Station C, Ottawa, Canada, K1Y 4H7", "Copyright 1993 Agence France Presse\n Agence France Presse\n\nHEADLINE: Egyptian arrested after mock threat to blow up Iran's\nParis mission\n\nDATELINE: PARIS\n\nBODY:\n\n PARIS, April 16 (AFP) - An Egyptian man held police at bay\nfor several hours outside the Iranian Embassy here, threatening\nto blow up the building to protest against terrorism and\nfundamentalism.\n\n The man in his thirties, who was identified only as \"an\nEgyptian national ,\" displayed a banner outside the embassy\ngate and said he was in possession of several sticks of dynamite\nhe threatened to set off.", "\nHeck, I remember reading a quote of Luther as something like: \"Jews should\nbe shot like deer.\" And of course much Catholic doctrine for centuries was \nextremely anti-Semitic.\n\n\n", "\t[...details of US built chemical plant at Al Alteer near Baghdad...]\n: However, the plant's intended use was to aid the Iraqi infrastructure.\n: It is not an example of selling a weapon. May sound nitpicking,\n: but are we going to refuse to sell valuable parts that build the\n: infrastructure because of dual use technology? \n\n\tI am contending that in this case (and in the case of the sale\nof pesticides by UK companies) that they knew full well that it was to \nbe used for the production of chemical weapons even if that was not its\nofficially stated purpose.\n\n: I personally don't think that letting Iran conquer Iraq would have been a \n: good thing. \n\n\tFor that matter, neither do I (for the reasons you state). It is the \nhypocrisy and claims the US did not help Iraq that make me angry, plus the\nfact that the USA seems to believe it has the *right* to interfere where\nis sees fit (i.e. has an interest) rather than a *duty* to intervene where\nit is required. This is demonstrated by the failure of the US to do anything\nabout East Timor (and the region *is* becoming destabilised). The USA might\nhave done something approaching the right thing, given my reservations about\nthe uncessary number of civillian casualites, but for wholly the wrong reasons\nand after having a hand in creating the situation.\n\n: That in no way would affect the US later military action against Iraq.\n\n\tI did not suggest it would and it would be ridiculous to assert\notherwise. I was simply indicating the USA has previously aided Iraq.\n\n: Intel on manufacturing techniques, or something of that nature? \n\n\tNo, apparently data (orginally from satellites although I doubt\nthat Iraq would have been given the raw data) concerning troop concentrations.", "You know ed,... You're right! Andi shouldn't be comparing\nIsrael to the Nazis. The Israelis are much worse than the\nNazis ever were anyway. The Nazis did a lot of good for\nGermany, and they would have succeeded if it weren't for the\ndamn Jews. The Holocaust never happened anyway. Ample\nevidence given by George Schafer at Harvard, Dept. of History,\nand even by Randolph Higgins at NYU, have shown that the\nHolocaust was just a semitic conspiracy created to obtain\nsympathy to piush for the creation of Israel.\n\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\n", "THE WHITE HOUSE\n\n Office of the Press Secretary\n______________________________________________________________\nFor Immediate Release April 23, 1993 \n\n\t \n PRESS CONFERENCE BY THE PRESIDENT\n\t \n\t \n The East Room \n\n\n1:00 P.M. EDT\n\t \n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: Terry, do you have a question?\n\t \n\t Q\t Mr. President, there's a growing feeling that the \nWestern response to bloodshed in Bosnia has been woefully inadequate. \nHolocaust survivor Elie Wiesel asked you yesterday to do something, \nanything to stop the fighting. Is the United States considering \ntaking unilateral action such as air strikes against Serb artillery \nsites?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: Well, first let me say, as you know, for \nmore than a week now we have been seriously reviewing our options for \nfurther action. And I want to say, too, let's look at the last three \nmonths. Since I became President I have worked with our allies and \nwe have tried to move forward, first on the no-fly zone, on \nenforcement of it, on the humanitarian airdrops, on the war crimes \ninvestigation, on getting the Bosnian Muslims involved in the peace \nprocess. We have made some progress. And now we have a very much \ntougher sanctions resolution. And Leon Fuerth, who is the National \nSecurity Advisor to the Vice President, is in Europe now working on \nimplementing that. That is going to make a big difference to Serbia.\n\t \n\t And we are reviewing other options. I think we should \nact. We should lead -- the United States should lead. We have led \nfor the last three months. We have moved the coalition. And to be \nfair, our allies in Europe have been willing to do their part. And \nthey have troops on the ground there.\n\t \n\t But I do not think we should act alone, unilaterally, \nnor do I think we will have to. And in the next several days I think \nwe will finalize the extensive review which has been going on and \nwhich has taken a lot of my time, as well as the time of the \nadministration, as it should have, over the last 10 days or so. I \nthink we'll finish that in the near future and then we'll have a \npolicy and we'll announce it and everybody can evaluate it.\n\t \n\t Q\t Can I follow up?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: Sure.\n\t \n\t Q\t Do you see any parallel between the ethnic \ncleansing in Bosnia and the Holocaust?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: I think the Holocaust is on a whole \ndifferent level. I think it is without precedent or peer in human \nhistory. On the other hand, ethnic cleansing is the kind of \ninhumanity that the Holocaust took to the nth degree. The idea of \nmoving people around and abusing them and often killing them solely \nbecause of their ethnicity is an abhorrent thing. And it is \nespecially troublesome in that area where people of different ethnic \ngroups live side by side for so long together. And I think you have \nto stand up against it. I think it's wrong.\n\t \n\t We were talking today about all of the other troubles in \nthat region. I was happy to see the violence between the Croats and \nthe Muslims in Bosnia subside this morning, and I think we're making \nprogress on that front. But what's going on with the Serbians and \nthe ethnic cleansing is qualitatively different than the other \nconflicts, both within the former Yugoslavia and in other parts of \nthe region.\n\t \n\t Q\t Mr. President, by any count, you have not had a \ngood week in your presidency. The tragedy in Waco, the defeat of \nyour stimulus bill, the standoff in Bosnia. What did you do wrong \nand what are you going to do differently? How do you look at things? \nAre you reassessing? (Laughter.)\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: I don't really believe that the \nsituation in Bosnia -- it's not been a good week for the world, but I \ndon't know that the administration could have made it different.\n\t \n\t On the stimulus package, I'd like to put it into the \nlarger context and remind you that in this 100 days we have already \nfundamentally changed the direction of an American government. We \nhave abandoned trickle-down economics. We've abandoned the policies \nthat brought the debt of this country from $1 trillion to $4 trillion \nin only a decade. \n\t \n\t The budget plan, which passed the Congress, which will \nreduce the deficit and increase investment, has led to a 20-year low \nin mortgage rates, dramatically lower interest rates. There are \nprobably people in this room who have refinanced their home mortgages \nin the last three months, or who have had access to cheaper credit. \nThat's going to put tens of billion dollars coursing throughout this \neconomy in ways that are very, very good for the country. And so we \nare moving in the right direction economically.\n\t \n\t I regret that the stimulus did not pass, and I have \nbegun to ask -- and will continue to ask not only people in the \nadministration, but people in the Congress whether there is something \nI could have done differently to pass that. Part of the reason it \ndidn't pass was politics; part of it was a difference in ideas. \nThere are really people still who believe that it's not needed. I \njust disagree with that. \n\t \n\t I think the recovery -- the economists say it's been \nunderway for about two years, and we've still had 16 months of seven-\npercent unemployment, and all the wealthy countries are having \ntrouble creating jobs. So I think there was an idea base -- an \nargument there, that while we're waiting for the lower interest rates \nand the deficit reduction and the investments of the next four years \nto take effect, this sort of supplemental appropriation should go \nforward.\n\t \n\t Now, I have to tell you, I did misgauge that because a \nmajority of the Republican senators now sitting in the Senate voted \nfor a similar stimulus when Ronald Reagan was President in 1983, and \nvoted 28 times for regular supplemental appropriations like this. I \njust misgauged it. And I hope that I can learn something. I've just \nbeen here 90 days. And, you know, I was a Governor working with a \ncontentious legislature for 12 years, and it took me a decade to get \npolitical reform there. So it takes time to change things. But I \nbasically feel very good about what's happened in the first 100 days \nwith regard to the Congress.\n\t \n\t Q\t Waco --\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: Well, with regard to Waco I don't have \nmuch to add to what I've already said. I think it is a -- I want the \nsituation looked into. I want us to bring in people who have any \ninsights to bear on that. I think it's very important that the whole \nthing be thoroughly gone over. But I still maintain what I said from \nthe beginning, that the offender there was David Koresh. And I do \nnot think the United States government is responsible for the fact \nthat a bunch of fanatics decided to kill themselves. And I'm sorry \nthat they killed their children.\n\t \n\t Q\t Mr. President, to follow up partly on Helen on your \nstimulus package and on your political approach to Capitol Hill, Ross \nPerot said today that you're playing games with the American people \nin your tax policy. He was strongly critical of your stimulus \npackage. He said he's going to launch an advertising campaign \nagainst the North American Free Trade Agreement. How are you going \nto handle his political criticism? Will it complicate your efforts \non the Hill with your economic plan? And do you plan to repackage \nsome of the things that have been in your stimulus program and try to \nresubmit them to the Hill?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: Let me answer that question first. \nWe're going to revisit all of that over the next few days. I'm going \nto be talking to members of Congress and to others to see what we can \ndo about that. With regard to the economic plan, I must say I found \nthat rather amazing. I don't want to get into an argument with Mr. \nPerot. I'll be interested to hear what his specifics are, but I \nwould -- go back and read his book and his plan. There's a \nremarkable convergence except that we have more specific budget cuts, \nwe raise taxes less on the middle class and more on the wealthy. \nBut, otherwise, the plans are remarkably similar. \n\t \n\t So I think it would be -- I'll be interested to see if \nmaybe perhaps he's changed his position from his book last year and \nhe has some new ideas to bring to bear. I'll be glad to hear them.\n\t \n\t Q\t To follow up, sir, how do you plan to handle his \npolitical criticism? He's launched a campaign against you. Do you \nthink you can sit back and just --\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: Well, first of all, I will ask you to \napply the same level of scrutiny to him as you do to me. And if he's \nchanged his position from the positions he took in the campaign last \nyear, then we need to know why and what his ideas are. Maybe he's \ngot some constructive ideas. \n\t \n\t I think the American people have shown that they're very \nimpatient with people who don't want to produce results. And the one \nthing I think that everybody has figured out about me in the last -- \neven if they don't agree with what I do -- is that I want to get \nsomething done. I just came here to try to change things. I want to \ndo things. And I want to do things that help people's lives. So my \njudgment is that if he makes a suggestion that is good, that is \nconstructive, that takes us beyond some idea I've proposed that will \nchange people's lives for the better, fine. But I think that that \nought to be the test that we apply to everyone who weighs into this \ndebate and not just to the President.\n\n\t Q\t Mr. President, to go back to Bosnia for a minute. \nYou continue to insist that this has to be multilateral action, a \ncriteria that seems to have hamstrung us when it comes to many \noptions thus far and makes it look as if this is a state of \nparalysis. The United States is the last remaining superpower. Why \nis it not appropriate in this situation for the United States to act \nunilaterally?\n\n\t THE PRESIDENT: Well, the United States -- surely you \nwould agree, that the United States, even as the last remaining \nsuperpower, has to act consistent with international law under some \nmandate of the United Nations.\n\n\t Q\t But you have a mandate and --\n\n\t THE PRESIDENT: They do, and that is one of the things \nthat we have under review. I haven't ruled out any option for \naction. I would remind all of you, I have not ruled out any option, \nexcept that we have not discussed and we are not considering the \nintroduction of American forces into continuing hostilities there. \nWe are not. \n\n\t So we are reviewing other options. But I also would \nremind you that, to be fair, our allies have had -- the French, the \nBritish and the Canadians -- have had troops on the ground there. \nThey have been justifiably worried about those. But they have \nsupported the airdrops, the toughening of the sanctions. They \nwelcomed the American delegation now in Europe, working on how to \nmake these sanctions really work and really bite against Serbia. And \nI can tell you that the other nations involved are also genuinely \nreassessing their position, and I would not rule out the fact that we \ncan reach an agreement for a concerted action that goes beyond where \nwe have been. I don't have any criticism of the British, the French \nand others about that.\n\t \n\t Q\t Would that be military action?\n\t \n\t Q\t Mr. President, several of the leading lights in \nyour administration, ranging from your FBI Director to your U.N. \nAmbassador, to your Deputy Budget Director to your Health Services \nSecretary, have issued statements in the last couple of weeks which \nare absolutely contradictory to some of the positions you've taken in \nyour administration. Why is that? Are you losing your political \ngrip?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: Give me an example. \n\t \n\t Q\t Example? Judge Sessions said that there was no \nchild abuse in Waco. Madeleine Albright has said in this morning's \nnewspapers, at least, that she favors air strikes in Bosnia. All of \nthese are things you said that you didn't support.\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: First of all, I don't know what -- we \nknow that David Koresh had sex with children. I think that is \nundisputed, is it not? Is it not? Does anybody dispute that? Where \nI come from that qualifies as child abuse. And we know that he had \npeople teaching these kids how to kill themselves. I think that \nqualifies as abuse. And I'm not criticizing Judge Sessions because I \ndon't know exactly what he said.\n\t \n\t In terms of Madeleine Albright, Madeleine Albright has \nmade no public statement at all about air strikes. There is a press \nreport that she wrote me a confidential letter in which she expressed \nher -- or memo -- in which she expressed her views about the new \ndirection we should take in response to my request to all the senior \nmembers of my administration to let me know what they thought we \nought to do next. And I have heard from her and from others about \nwhat they think we ought to do next. And I'm not going to discuss \nthe recommendations they made to me, but in the next few days when I \nmake a decision about what to do, then I will announce what I'm going \nto do. So I wouldn't say that either one of those examples qualifies \nspeaking out of school.\n\t \n\t Q\t How about the Value Added Tax, Mr. President?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: What was that?\n\t \n\t Q\t The Value Added Tax -- Mrs. Rivlin and Miss Shalala \nboth said that they thought that that was a good idea.\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: I don't mind them saying they think it's \na good idea. There are all kinds of arguments for it on policy \ngrounds. That does not mean that we have decided to incorporate it \nin the health care debate. No decision has been made on that. And I \nhave no objection to their expressing their views on that. We've had \na lot of people from business and labor come to us saying that they \nthought that tax would help make their particular industries more \ncompetitive in the global economy. I took no -- that wasn't taking a \nline against an administration policy.\n\t \n\t Q\t Mr. President, a week ago a group of gay and \nlesbian representatives came out of a meeting with you and expressed \nin the most ringing terms, their confidence in your understanding of \nthem and their political aspirations, and their belief that you would \nfulfill those aspirations. Do you feel now that you will be able to \nmeet their now enhanced expectations?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: Well, I don't know about that. And I \ndon't know what their -- it depends on what the expectations are. \nBut I'll tell you this: I believe that this country's policies \nshould be heavily biased in favor of nondiscrimination. I believe \nwhen you tell people they can't do certain things in this country \nthat other people can do, there ought to be an overwhelming and \ncompelling reason for it. I believe we need the services of all of \nour people, and I have said that consistently. And not as a \npolitical proposition. The first time this issue came up was in 1991 \nwhen I was in Boston. I was just asked the question about it.\n\t \n\t And I might add -- it's interesting that I have been \nattacked -- obviously, those who disagree with me here are primarily \ncoming from the political right in America. When I was Governor, I \nwas attacked from the other direction for sticking up for the rights \nof religious fundamentalists to run their child care centers and to \npractice home schooling under appropriate safeguards. I just have \nalways had an almost libertarian view that we should try to protect \nthe rights of American individual citizens to live up to the fullest \nof their capacities, and I'm going to stick right with that.\n\t \n\t Q\t Are you concerned, sir, that you may have generated \nexpectations on their end and criticism among others that has \nhamstrung your administration in the sense of far too great emphasis \non this issue?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: Yes, but I have not placed a great deal \nof emphasis on it. It's gotten a lot of emphasis in other quarters \nand in the press. I've just simply taken my position and tried to \nsee it through. And that's what I do. It doesn't take a lot of my \ntime as President to say what I believe in and what I intend to do, \nand that's what I'll continue to do.\n\t \n\t Q\t Mr. President, getting back to the situation in \nBosnia -- and we understand you haven't made any final decisions on \nnew options previously considered unacceptable. But the two most \ncommonly heard options would be lifting the arms embargo to enable \nthe Bosnian Muslims to defend themselves and to initiate some limited \nair strikes, perhaps, to cut off supply lines. Without telling us \nyour decision -- presumably, you haven't made any final decisions on \nthose two options -- what are the pros and cons that are going \nthrough your mind right now and will weigh heavily on your final \ndecision? \n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: I'm reluctant to get into this. There \nare -- those are two of the options. There are some other options \nthat have been considered. All have pluses and minuses; all have \nsupporters and opponents within the administration and in the \nCongress, where, I would remind you, heavy consultations will be \nrequired to embark on any new policy.\n\t \n\t I do believe that on the air strike issue, the \npronouncements that General Powell has made generally about military \naction, apply there. If you take action, if the United States takes \naction, we must have a clearly-defined objective that can be met. We \nmust be able to understand it and its limitations must be clear. The \nUnited States is not, should not, become involved as a partisan in a \nwar. \n\t \n\t With regard to the lifting of the arms embargo, the \nquestion obviously there is if you widen the capacity of people to \nfight will that help to get a settlement and bring about peace? Will \nit lead to more bloodshed? What kind of reaction can others have \nthat would undermine the effectiveness of the policy?\n\t \n\t But I think both of them deserve some serious \nconsideration, along with some other options we have.\n\t \n\t Q\t Do you think that these people who are trying to \nget us into war in Bosnia are really remembering that we haven't \ntaken care of hundreds of thousands of veterans from the last war and \nwe couldn't take care of our prisoners and get them all home from \nVietnam? And now many of them are coming up with bills for \ntreatment of Agent Orange. How can we afford to go to any more of \nthese wars?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: Well, I think that's a good argument \nagainst the United States itself becoming involved as a belligerent \nin a war there. But we are, after all, the world's only super power. \nWe do have to lead the world and there is a very serious problem of \nsystematic ethnic cleansing in the former Yugoslavia, which could \nhave not only enormous further humanitarian consequences -- and \ngoodness knows there have been many -- but also could have other \npractical consequences in other nearby regions where the same sorts \nof ethnic tensions exist.\n\n\t Q\t Did you make any kind of agreement with Boris \nYeltsin to hold off either on air strikes or any kind of aggressive \naction against the Serbs until after Sunday? And in general, how has \nhis political situation affected your deliberation on Bosnia?\n\n\t THE PRESIDENT: No, I have not made any agreement, and \nhe did not ask for that. We never even discussed that, interestingly \nenough. The Russians, I would remind you, in the middle of President \nYeltsin's campaign, abstained from our attempt to get tougher \nsanctions through the United Nations in what I thought was the proper \ndecision for them and one that the United States and, I'm sure, the \nrest of the free world very much appreciated. \n\n\t Q\t Do you wish, Mr. President, that you'd become more \ninvolved in the planning of the Waco operation? And how would you \nhandle that situation differently now?\n\n\t THE PRESIDENT: I don't think as a practical matter that \nthe President should become involved in the planning of those kinds \nof things at that detail. One of the things that I'm sure will come \nout when we look into this is -- the questions will be asked and \nanswered, did all of us who up the line of command ask the questions \nwe should have asked and get the answers we should have gotten? And \nI look forward to that. But at the time, I have to say, as I did \nbefore, the first thing I did after the ATF agents were killed, once \nwe knew that the FBI was going to go in, was to ask that the military \nbe consulted because of the quasi, as least, military nature of the \nconflict given the resources that Koresh had in his compound and \ntheir obvious willingness to use them. And then on the day before \nthe action, I asked the questions of the Attorney General which I \nhave reported to you previously, and which at the time I thought were \nsufficient. I have -- as I said, I'm sure -- I leave it to others to \nmake the suggestions about whether there are other questions I should \nhave asked.\n\t \n\t Q\t Mr. President, what is your assessment of Director \nSessions' role in the Waco affair? And have you made a decision on \nhis future? And if you haven't, will you give him a personal hearing \nbefore you do decide?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: Well, first of all, I have no assessment \nof his role since I had no direct contact with him. And I mean no \nnegative or positive inference. I have no assessment there. I stand \nby what I said before about my general high regard for the FBI. And \nI'm waiting for a recommendation from the Attorney General about what \nto do with the direction of the FBI.\n\t \n\t Q\t Mr. President, since you said that one side in \nBosnia conflict represents inhumanity that the Holocaust carried to \nthe nth degree, why do you then tell us that the United States cannot \ntake a partisan view in this war?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: Well, I said that the principle of \nethnic cleansing is something we ought to stand up against. That \ndoes not mean that the United States or the United Nations can enter \na war, in effect, to redraw the lines, geographical lines of \nrepublics within what was Yugoslavia, or that that would ultimately \nbe successful.\n\t \n\t I think what the United States has to do is to try to \nfigure out whether there is some way consistent with forcing the \npeople to resolve their own difficulties we can stand up to and stop \nethnic cleansing. And that is obviously the difficulty we are \nwrestling with. This is clearly the most difficult foreign policy \nproblem we face, and that all of our allies face. And if it were \neasy, I suppose it would have been solved before. We have tried to \ndo more in the last 90 days than was previously done. It has clearly \nnot been enough to stop the Serbian aggression, and we are now \nlooking at what else we can do.\n\t \n\t Q\t Yesterday you specifically criticized the Roosevelt \nadministration for not having bombed the railroads to the \nconcentration camps and things that were near military targets. \nAren't there steps like that that would not involve conflict --direct \nconflict or partisan belligerence that you might consider?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: There may be. I would remind you that \nthe circumstances were somewhat different. We were then at war with \nGermany at the time and that's what made that whole incident so --\nseries of incidents -- so perplexing. But we have -- as I say, we've \ngot all of our options under review.\n\t \n\t Q\t The diplomatic initiative on Haiti is on the verge \nof collapse. What can you do to salvage it short of a full-scale \nmilitary operation?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: Well, you may know something I don't. \nThat's not what our people tell me. I think Mr. Caputo and \nAmbassador Pezzullo have done together a good job. The thing keeps \ngoing back and forth because of the people who are involved with the \nde facto government there. It's obvious what their concerns are. \nThey were the same concerns that led to the ouster of Aristide in the \nfirst place, and President Aristide, we feel, should be restored to \npower. We're working toward that. I get a report on that -- we \ndiscuss it at least three times a week, and I'm convinced that we're \ngoing to prevail there and be successful. \n\t \n\t I do believe that there's every reason to think that \nthere will have to be some sort of multilateral presence to try to \nguarantee the security and the freedom from violence of people on \nboth sides of the ledger while we try to establish the conditions of \nongoing civilized society. But I believe we're going to prevail \nthere.\n\t \n\t Q\t Mr. President, would you care to make your \nassessment of the first 100 days before we make one for you? \n(Laughter.)\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: Well, I'll say if -- I believe, first of \nall, we passed the budget resolution in record time. That was the \nbiggest issue. That confirmed the direction of the administration \nand confirmed the commitments of the campaign that we could both \nbring the deficit down and increase investment, and that we could do \nit by specific spending cuts and by raising taxes, almost all of \nwhich come from the highest income people in this society --reversing \na 12-year trend in which most of the tax burdens were borne by the \nmiddle class, whose incomes were going down when their taxes were \ngoing up, while the deficit went from $1 trillion to $4 trillion, the \ntotal national debt, and the deficit continued to go up.\n\t \n\t We have a 20-year low in interest rates from mortgages. \nWe have lower interest rates across the board. We have tens of \nbillions of dollars flooding back into this economy as people \nrefinance their debt. \n\t \n\t We have established a new environmental policy, which is \ndramatically different. The Secretary of Education has worked with \nme and with others and with the governors to establish a new approach \nin education that focuses on tough standards, as well as increasing \nopportunity. We have done an enormous amount of work on political \nreform, on campaign finance and lobbying reform. And I have imposed \ntough ethics requirements on my own administration's officials. \nThese things are consistent with not only what I said I'd do in the \ncampaign, but with turning the country around. The Vice President is \nheading a task force which will literally change the way the federal \ngovernment operates and make it much more responsive to the citizens \nof this country. \n\t \n\t We are working on a whole range of other things. The \nwelfare reform initiative, to move people from welfare to work. And, \nof course, a massive amount of work has been done on the health care \nissue, which is a huge economic and personal security problem for \nmillions of Americans. \n\t \n\t So I think it is amazing how much has been done. More \nwill be done. We also passed the Family Leave bill. A version of \nthe motor voter bill -- that has not come out of conference back to \nme yet. And everything has been passed except the stimulus program. \nSo I think we're doing fine and we're moving in the right direction. \nI feel good about it.\n\t \n\t Q\t Sir, a follow-up. Wouldn't you say, though, that \none of your biggest initiatives, aid to Soviet Russia, is now \npractically finished -- if we can't pass a stimulus bill in our own \ncountry, how can we do it for them?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: Let me recast the question a little bit. \nIt's a good question -- (laughter) -- it's a good question, but to be \nfair we've got to recast it. We have already -- the first round of \naid to the Soviet -- to non-Soviet Russia, to a democratic Russia, is \nplainly going to go through, the first $1.6 billion. The aid that we \nagreed with our partners in the G-7 to provide through the \ninternational financial institutions, which is a big dollar item, is \nplainly going to go through. The question is, can we get any more \naid for Russia that requires a new appropriation by the United States \nCongress? And that is a question I think, Mary, that will be \nresolved in the weeks ahead, in part by what happens to the American \nworkers and their jobs and their future. I think the two things will \nbe tied by many members of Congress.\n\n\t Q\t The tailhook report came out this morning, \ndocumenting horrendous and nearly-criminal conduct on the part of the \nNavy. How much did you discuss the incident and what might be done \nabout it with your nominee to be the Secretary of the Navy?\n\n\t THE PRESIDENT: First, let me comment a little on that. \nThe Inspector General's report details conduct which is wrong and \nwhich has no place in the armed services. And I expect the report to \nbe acted on in the appropriate way. I also want to say to the \nAmerican people and to all of you that the report should be taken for \nwhat it is, a very disturbing list of allegations which will have to \nbe thoroughly examined. It should not be taken as a general \nindictment of the United States Navy or of all the fine people who \nserve there. It is very specific in its allegations, and it will be \npursued. \n\n\t The only thing I said to the Secretary-Designate of the \nNavy and the only thing I should have said to him, I think, is that I \nexpected him to take the report and to do his duty. And I believe he \nwill do that.\n\n\t Q\t Mr. President, to back to Russia for just a minute. \nThe latest poll show that Mr. Yeltsin will probably win his vote of \nconfidence. But there seems to be a real toss-up on whether or not \nvoters are going to endorse his economic reforms. \n\n\t THE PRESIDENT: I understand that. \n\n\t Q\t Can you live with a split -- (laughter) -- can you \nlive with a split decision, though, or do you need both passed in \norder to then build support for Russian aid?\n\n\t THE PRESIDENT: I believe -- the answer to your question \nis, for the United States, the key question should be that which is \nposed to any democracy, which is who wins the election. If he wins \nthe election, if he is ratified by the Russian people to continue as \ntheir President, then I think we should do our best to work with him \ntoward reform.\n\t \n\t You know, we had a lot of other countries here for the \nHolocaust Museum dedication -- their leaders were here. Leaders from \nEastern Europe, leaders from at least one republic of the former \nSoviet Union; all of them having terrible economic challenges as they \nconvert from a communist command and control economy to a market \neconomy in a world where there's economic slowdown everywhere. And \nin a world in which there's economic slowdown and difficulty, all \nleaders will have trouble having their policies be popular in a poll \nbecause they haven't produced the results that the people so \nearnestly yearn for. You can understand that. \n\t \n\t But if they have confidence in the leadership, I think \nthat's all we can ask. And the United States will -- if the Russian \npeople ratify him as their President and stick with him then the \nUnited States will continue to work with him. I think he is a \ngenuine democrat -- small d -- and genuinely committed to reform. I \nthink that we should support that.\n\n\t Q\t Mr. President, Mr. Perot has come out strongly in \nwhat is perceived behind the line against a free trade agreement --\nNAFTA. How hard are you going to fight for this free trade agreement \nand when do you expect to see it accomplished?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: I think we'll have the agreement ready \nin the fairly near future. You know, our people are still working \nwith the Mexican government and with the Canadians on the side \nagreements. We're trying to work out what the environmental \nagreement will say, what the labor agreement will say, and then what \nthe fairest way to deal with enforcement is. \n\t \n\t The Mexicans say, and there is some merit to their \nposition, that they're worried about transferring their sovereignty \nin enforcement to a multilateral commission. Even in the United \nStates, to be fair, we have some folks who are worried about that --\nabout giving that up. On the other hand, if we're going to have an \nenvironmental agreement and a labor standards agreement that means \nsomething, then there has to be ultimately some consequences for \nviolating them. So what we're trying to do is to agree on an \napproach which would say that if there is a pattern of violations --\nif you keep on violating it past a certain point -- maybe not an \nisolated incident, but a pattern of violation -- there is going to be \nsome enforcement. There must be consequences. And we're working out \nthe details of that.\n\t \n\t But I still feel quite good about it. And this is just \nan area where I disagree with Mr. Perot and with others. I think \nthat we will win big if we have a fair agreement that integrates more \nclosely the Mexican economy and the American economy and leads us \nfrom there to Chile to other market economies in Latin America, and \ngives us a bigger world in which to trade. I think that's the only \nway a rich country can grow richer. If you look at what Japan and \nother countries in the Pacific are doing to reach out in their own \nregion, it's a pretty good lesson to us that we had better worry \nabout how to build those bridges in our own area. \n\t \n\t So this is an idea battle. You know, you've got a lot \nof questions and I want to answer them all, but let me say not every \none of these things can be distilled simply into politics -- you \nknow, who's for this and who's for that, and if this person is for \nthis, somebody else has got to be for that. A lot of these things \nhonestly involved real debates over ideas, over who's right and wrong \nabout the world toward which we're moving. And the answers are not \nself-evident. And one of the reasons that I wanted to run for \nPresident is I wanted to sort of open the floodgates for debating \nthese ideas so that we could try to change in the appropriate way. \nSo I just have a difference of opinion. I believe that the concept \nof NAFTA is sound, even though, as you know, I thought that the \ndetails needed to be improved.\n\t \n\t Q\t Mr. President, there was a tremendous flurry of \ninterest earlier this month in the Russian document that purported to \nshow that the Vietnamese had held back American prisoners. General \nVessey has now said publicly that while the document itself was \nauthentic, he believes that it was incorrect. Do you have a personal \nview at this point about that issue? And more broadly, do you \nbelieve that, in fact, the Vietnamese did return all the American \nprisoners at the time of the Paris Peace Accord?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: First let me say, I saw General Vessey \nbefore he went to Vietnam and after he returned. And I have a high \nregard for him and I appreciate his willingness to serve his country \nin this way. As to whether the document had any basis in fact, let \nme say that the government of Vietnam was more forthcoming than it \nhad been in the past and gave us some documents that would tend to \nundermine the validity of the Russian documents claim.\n\t \n\t I do not know whether that is right or wrong. We are \nhaving it basically evaluated at this time, and when we complete the \nevaluation, we'll tell you. And, of course, we want to tell the \nfamilies of those who were missing in action or who were POWs. I \nthink that we'll be able to make some progress in eliminating some of \nthe questions about the outstanding cases as a result of this last \ninterchange, but I cannot say that I'm fully satisfied that we know \nall that we need to know. There are still some cases that we don't \nknow the answer to. But I do believe we're making some progress. I \nwas encouraged by the last trip.\n\t \n\t Q\t I'd like to follow up on that. Before the U.S. \nnormalizes relations, allows trade to go forward, do you have to be \npersonally sure that every case has been resolved or would you be \nwilling to go forward on the basis that while it may take years to \nresolve these cases, the Vietnamese have made sufficient offerings to \nus to confirm good faith?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: A lot of experts say you can never \nresolve every case, every one, that we couldn't resolve all the cases \nfor them and that there are still some cases that have not been \nfactually resolved, going back to the Second World War. But what I \nwould have to be convinced of is that we had gone a long way toward \nresolving every case that could be resolved at this moment in time, \nand that there was a complete, open and unrestricted commitment to \ncontinue to do everything that could be done always to keep resolving \nthose cases. And we're not there yet. \n\t \n\t Again, I have to be guided a little bit by people who \nknow a lot about this. And I confess to being much more heavily \ninfluenced by the families of the people whose lives were lost there, \nor whose lives remain in question than by the commercial interest and \nthe other things which seem so compelling in this moment. I just am \nvery influenced by how the families feel.\n\t \n\t Q\t your economic stimulus package, are you doing \nsome kind of reality check now and scaling back some of your plans, \nyour legislative plans for the coming year, including the crime bill, \nthe health care initiative and other things? Are there any plans to \ndo that? And also, did you underestimate the power of Senator Bob \nDole?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: No, what I underestimated was the extent \nto which what I thought was a fairly self-evident case, particularly \nafter we stayed below the spending caps approved by this Congress, \nincluding the Republicans who were in this Congress last year -- when \nwe had already passed a budget resolution which called for over $500 \nbillion in deficit reduction. When they had voted repeatedly for \nsupplemental appropriations to help foreign governments, I thought at \nleast four of them would vote to break cloture, and I underestimated \nthat. I did not have an adequate strategy of dealing with that. \n\t \n\t I also thought that if I made a good-faith effort to \nnegotiate and to compromise, that it would not be rebuffed. Instead, \nevery time I offered something they reduced the offer that they had \npreviously been talking to the Majority Leader about. So it was a \nstrange set of events. But I think what happened was what was a \nsignificant part of our plan, but not the major part of it, acquired \na political connotation that got out of proportion to the merits, so \nthat a lot of Republicans were saying to me privately, \"Mr. \nPresident, I'd like to be for this, but I can't now. And we're all \nstrung out and we're divided.\" \n\t \n\t And I think we need to do a reality check. As I said, \nwhat I want to know -- let me go back to what I said -- what I want \nto know from our folks and from our friends in the Senate on -- and \nRepublicans or Democrats -- is what could I have done differently to \nmake it come out differently. Because the real losers here were not \nthe President and the administration. The real losers were the \nhundreds of thousands of people who won't have jobs now. We could \nhave put another 700,000 kids to work this summer. I mean, we could \nhave done a lot of good things with that money. And I think that is \nvery, very sad. And it became more political than it should have. \nBut the underlying rationale I don't think holds a lot of water --\nthat it was deficit spending. That just won't wash.\n\t \n\t Q\t and redo --\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: No. I mean, you know, for example --you \nmentioned the crime bill. I think it would be a real mistake not to \npass the crime bill. I mean, the crime bill was almost on the point \nof passage last year. And they were all fighting over the Brady \nBill. Surely, surely after what we have been through in this country \njust in the last three months, with the kind of mindless violence we \nhave seen, we can pass a bill requiring people to go through a \nwaiting period before they buy a handgun. And surely we can see that \nwe need more police officers on the street. \n\t \n\t That's another thing that -- I really believe that once \nwe move some of that money -- not all, but some of it up into this \njobs package to make some of the jobs rehiring police officers on the \nstreet who'd been laid off, that would be a compelling case. I mean \npeople are scared in this country and I think we need to go forward. \nI feel very strongly that we need to go forward on the crime bill.\n\t \n\t Q\t Mr. President, back to the tailhook report for a \nsecond. That report contained very strong criticism of the Navy's \nsenior leadership in general, but did not name any of the senior \nofficers. Do you believe that the senior officers who are implicated \nin this, including Admiral Kelso who was there one night in Las \nVegas, should they be disciplined and do you believe the public has a \nright to know the names of the senior officers?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: You should know that under the rules of \nlaw which apply to this, I am in the chain of command. There is now \nan Inspector General's report and the law must take its course. If I \nwere to answer that question I might prejudice any decisions which \nmight be later made in this case. I don't really think -- I think \nall I can tell you is what I have already said. I was very disturbed \nby the specific allegations in the Inspector General's report, and I \nwant appropriate action to be taken. \n\t \n\t Until the proper procedures have a chance to kick in and \nappropriate action is taken, I have been advised that because I am \nthe Commander-in-Chief I have to be very careful about what I say so \nas not to prejudice the rights of anybody against whom any action \nmight proceed or to prejudice the case in any other way either pro or \ncon. So I can't say any more except to say that I want this thing \nhandled in an appropriate and thorough way.\n\t \n\t Q\t Mr. President, could I ask you for a clarification \non Bosnia? You said that you were not considering introduction of \nAmerican forces. Does that include any air forces as well as ground \nforces, sir?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: I said ground forces.\n\t \n\t Q\t You said ground forces. Could I ask you, sir, if \nyou fear that using U.S. air strikes might draw the United States \ninto a ground war there?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: I just don't want to discuss our \nevaluation of the options anymore. I've told you that there's never \nbeen a serious discussion in this country about the introduction of \nground forces into an ongoing conflict there.\n\t \n\t Q\t With hundreds of thousands of gays in Washington \nthis weekend for the march, did you ever reconsider your decision to \nleave town for this weekend? Did you ever consider in any way \nparticipating in some of the activities? \n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: No.\n\t \n\t Q\t Why not?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: Because I -- and, basically, I wouldn't \nparticipate in other marches. I think once you become President, on \nbalance, except under unusual circumstances, that is not what should \nbe done. But more importantly, I'm going to the American Society of \nNewspaper Editors, a trip that presumably most of you would want me \nto make, to try to focus anew on what I think are the fundamental \nissues at stake for our country right now. And I expect that I will \nsay something about the fact that a lot of Americans have come here, \nasking for a climate that is free of discrimination; asking, \nbasically, to be able to work hard and live by the rules and be \ntreated like other American citizens if they do that, and just that. \nAnd that's always been my position -- not only for the gays who will \nbe here, but for others as well. \n\t \n\t Thank you very much.", "I seldom see any posts in this group. Is anyone out there in Christendom\nlistening? If so, why don't we get some dialog going here?\n\nHere's a topic to get things started. My daughter's Christian school sends\nhome a weekly update on school related topics. This week they sent\nsomething *very* interesting. It was an article written by the leader of a\nnational (US) Christian school organization about a trip he recently made\nto Jerusalem. While there, he was introduced to one of the rabbis who is\nworking on a project to rebuild the Temple at Jerusalem. The article\nincluded photos of the many furnishings that have already been made in\npreparation for furnishing the rebuilt temple according to the\nspecifications given in the Bible. \n\nWhat was even more striking is the fact that the plans for the temple are\ncomplete and the group is only awaiting permission from the Israeli\ngovernment before beginning the building. The other startling fact is the\nvery recent archeological discovery that the original site of the temple is\nunoccupied and available for building. Previously it has been thought that\nthe original site was underneath what is now a mosque, making rebuilding\nimpossible without sparking a holy war. \n\nNow it appears that nothing stands in the way of rebuilding and resuming\nsacrifices, as the Scriptures indicate will happen in the last days.\nAlthough the Israeli government will give the permission to start, I think\nit is the hand of God holding the project until He is ready to let it\nhappen. Brothers and sisters, the time is at hand. Our redemption is\ndrawing near. Look up!", "What gives Isreal the right to keep Jeruseleum? It is the home of the muslim a\ns well as jewish religion, among others. Heck, nobody ever mentions what Yitza\nk Shamir did forty or fifty years ago which is terrorize westerners much in the\n way Abdul Nidal does today. Seems Isrealis are nowhere above Arabs, so theref\nore they have a right to Jerusaleum as much as Isreal does.\n", "\n\n\"Assuming\"? Also: come on, Brad. If we are going to get anywhere in \nthis (or any) discussion, it doesn't help to bring up elements I never \naddressed, *nor commented on in any way*. I made no comment on who is \n\"right\" or who is \"wrong\", only that civilians ARE being used as cover \nand that, having been placed \"in between\" the Israelis and the guerillas,\nthey *will* be injured as both parties continue their fight.\n \n\t[The *purpose* of an army's use of military uniforms \n\tis *to set its members apart* from the civilians so that \n\tcivilians will not be thought of by the other side as\n\t\"combatants\". So, what do you think is the \"meaning behind\", \n\tthe intention and the effect when an \"army\" purposely \n\t*does not were uniforms but goes out of its way to *look \n\tlike civilians'? *They are judging that the benefit they will \n\treceive from this \"cover\" is more important that the harm\n\tthat will come to civilians.*\n\nThis is a comment on the Israeli experience and is saying\nthat the guerillas *do* have some responsibility in putting civilians\nin \"the middle\" of this fight. By putting on uniforms and living apart\nfrom civilians (barracks, etc.), the guerillas would significantly lower\nthe risk to civilians.\n\n\tBut if the guerillas do this aren't *they* putting themselves\n\tat greater risk? Absolutely, they ask themselves \"why set \n\tourselves apart (by wearing uniforms) when there is a ready-made \n\tcover for us (civilians)? That makes sense from their point of \n\tview, BUT when this cover is used, the guerillas should accept \n\tsome of the responsibility for subsequent harm to civilians.\n\n\nI agree with you here. I have always thought that Israel's bombing\nsortees and bombing policy is stupid, thoughtless, inhumane AND\nineffective. BUT, there is no reason that Israel should passive wait \nuntil attackers chose to act; there is every reason to believe that\n\"taking the fight *to* the enemy\" will do more to stop attacks. \n\nAs I said previously, Israel spent several decades \"sitting passively\"\non its side of a border and only acting to stop these attacks *after*\nthe attackers had entered Israeli territory. It didn't work very well.\nThe \"host\" Arab state did little/nothing to try and stop these attacks \nfrom its side of the border with Israel so the number of attacks\nwere considerably higher, as was their physical and psychological impact \non the civilians caught in their path. \n\nThis is just another \"selectively applied\" statement.\n \nThe reason for this drawn-out impasse between Ababs/Palestinians and Israelis\nis that NEITHER side is willing to accept the Word of the other. By your\ncriteria *everyone* should stay away from the negotiations.\n\nThat is precisely why the Palestinians (in their recent PISGA proposal for \nthe \"interim\" period after negotiations and leading up to full autonomy) are\ndemanding conditions that essentially define \"autonomy\" already. They DO\nNOT trust that Israel will \"follow through\" the entire process and allow\nPalestinians to reach full autonomy. \n\nDo you understand and accept this viewpoint by the Palestinians? \nIf you do, then why should Israel's view of Arabs/Palestinians \nbe any different? Why should they trust the Arab/Palestinians' words?\nSince they don't, they are VERY reluctant to give up \"tangible assets \n(land, control of areas) in exchange for \"words\". For this reason,\nthey are also concerned about the sorts of \"guarantees\" they will have \nthat the Arabs WILL follow through on their part of any agreement reached.\n\nAbsolutely, so are the Arabs/Palestinians asking FIRST for the\nIsraelis \"word\" in relation to any agreement? NO, what is being\ndemanded FIRST is LAND. When the issue is LAND, and one party\nfinally gets HOLD of this \"land\", what the \"other party\" does\nis totally irrelevent. If I NOW have possession of this land,\nyour words have absolutely no power; whether Israel chooses to\nkeeps its word does NOT get the land back.\n\n\nWhile the \"major armaments\" (those allowing people to wage \"civil wars\")\nhave been removed, the weapons needed to cross-border attacks still\nremain to some extent. Rocket attacks still continue, and \"commando\"\nraids only require a few easily concealed weapons and a refined disregard\nfor human life (yours of that of others). Such attacks also continue.\n\n\nBat guano. The situation you call for existed in the 1970s and attacks\nwere commonplace.\n\n\nThere is NO WAY these groups can be effectively \"disarmed\" UNLESS the state\nis as authoritarian is Syria's. The only other way is for Lebanon to take\nit upon itself to constantly patrol the entire border with Israel, essentially\nmirroring Israel's border secirity on its side. It HAS TO PROVE TO ISREAL that\nit is this committed to protecting Israel from attack from Lebanese territory.\n\nThat's what I said, ok? But, doesn't that mean that Syria has to \"take over\"\nLebanon? I don't think Israel or Lebanon would like that.\nWhat both \"sides\" need is to receive something \"tangible\". The Arabs/\nPalestinians are looking for \"land\" and demanding that they receive it\nprior to giving anything to Israel. Israel has two problems: 1) if it\ngives up real *land* it IS exposing itself to a changed geostrategic\nsituation (and that change doesn't help Israel's position), and 2) WHEN\nit gives up this land IT NEEDS to receive something in return to\ncompensate for the increased risks", "\nBased on the same reasons? You mean you were opposed to US intervention in\nSomalia because since Somalia is a European country instead of the third world,\nthe desire to help Somalia is racist? I don't think this \"same reason\" applies\nto Somalia at all.\n\nThe whole point is that Somalia _is_ a third world country, and we were more\nwilling to send troops there than to Bosnia--exactly the _opposite_ of what\nthe \"fixation on European countries\" theory would predict. (Similarly, the\ndesire to help Muslims being fought by Christians is also exactly the opposite\nof what that theory predicts.)\n\n\nI'm referring to people who want to help at all, of course. You don't see\npeople sending out press releases \"help Bosnian Serbs with ethnic cleansing!\nThe Muslim presence in the Balkans should be eliminated now!\" (Well, except\nfor some Serbs, but I admit that the desire of Serbs in America to help the\nSerbian side probably _is_ because those are people more like them.)\n--\n\"On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Leftover Turkey!\nOn the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Turkey Casserole\n that she made from Leftover Turkey.\n[days 3-4 deleted] ... Flaming Turkey Wings! ...\n -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait)", "Yedi'ot Ahronot, April 9, 1993. Excerpt.\n\nEACH ONE AND HIS OWN NEVO*\n\n(* A reference to General Azri'el Nevo, Shamir's Military Secretary. \nIrrelevant to this excerpt.)\n\nBy Nahum Barne'a\n\n. . .\n\nIn mid '91 SHABAK found itself in the center of another storm [...]. \nA year and a half earlier, Khaled Sheikh Ali, 27, a member of the\nIslamic Jihad, died at the SHABAK installation in Gaza prison. The\ntwo SHABAK interrogators who were responsible for his death were put\non trial. In September '91 the Supreme Court rejected their appeal and\nsentenced them to 6 months in prison. As far as is known, this was\nthe first time in Israel's history that SHABAK operatives were sent to\nprison. The Supreme Court unanimously rejected the warning by the\ndirector of SHABAK that the sentence will be detrimental the\neffectiveness of other interrogators. [...] The judges in the case\nwere [...] Barak, Goldberg, and Matza.\n\nWhen they realized that they were on their own, the interrogators\nagreed to talk. Deputy State Attorney Rachel Sukkar[sp?] was placed\nin charge of investigating the affair. She [...] questioned the\ndirectors of all SHABAK divisions. She investigated only the matter\nof the death in Gaza prison. She discovered that not only torture,\nbut also \"the culture of lies\", which Judge Landau had described in\nhis report of two years before, were still very much in existence. \nNothing had changed.\n\nThe report was classified and was seen by only some ten people, among\nthem the Prime Minister, the people at the top of the judicial system\nand Judge Landau. The director of SHABAK claimed that he did not\nknow. After all, they were dealing only with a single jail and with\nlow ranking people. The system bit the bullet and accepted the\nexplanation. One of SHABAK's high-ranking officials was transfered\nfrom his very high position to a less high position.\n\n. . .\n\n[\"The culture of lies\" referred to above is the SHABAK interrogators'\npolicy of lying in court when denying detainees claims that they were\ntortured in the course of interrogation. The Landau commission sought\nto correct this problem by legalizing a list of torture methods --\nthus eliminating the fear that a detainee might be released if those\nmethods were used to extract a confession. The fact that the need to\nlie still persists would seem to indicate that SHABAK is not sticking\nto the \"approved\" torture methods. -- Yigal]", "\nthe question is by going East or West from the misisipi. on either choice\nyou would loose Palestine or Broklyn, N.Y.\n\nI thought you're gonna say fromn misisipi back to the misisipi !\n\n\nLet's say : \" let's establish the islamic state first\" or \"let's free our\noccupied lands first\". And then we can dream about expansion, Mr. Gideon\n", "\n\n\n\nYup. I can hear the _millions_ cheering for DK right now! Josef Stalin eat\nyour heart out! :)\n--\nBake Timmons, III", "Already say it the other week on CBC Snoozeworld\n\n\nYeah, I thought Bonanza was full of lies about the West...\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nWhy the hell would such an oil rich (and hydroelectric potential to be\nexploited) spend billions on a nuclear energy programme?\n\n\nYeah, and we have every reason in the world to trust the Iranian regime.\nAfter all, they've been *so* forward with us in the past....\n\n\nMaybe he *is* God!\n", "\n\n\n[ ... questions omitted ... ]\n\n\nFunny you should mention it, but I've heard these questions time\nand again, also. Why just the other day, a couple neo-Nazis by\nUCLA were passing out literature like this.\nCheers,\nSteve", "\nI agree with Shai, there are many references to Israeli\nplans on the Litani river but I have yet to find hard \nevidence. I had mentioned before that there is a report\ncommissioned by the UN to study the Litani river, it is \nstill in draft form. The Israeli gov't also commissioned\na study on the river that was done by Dr. Ben Wolfe.\nThe Litani starts in the Bekaa valley in Lebanon,\nflows Southward, then West across South Lebanon and\ndischarges into the Mediterranean near the city of Tyre.\nThere are other rivers such as the Hasbani and the Wazzani\nthat start in Lebanese territory than join the Jordan river. \nThe most mentioned plan was one that would divert water\nfrom the Litani into these, then the water would flow\nnaturally into the Lac De Houle. BUT there is no evidence\nof any diversion structure (which would need to be at least\n3 km long). The area is mountainous, inaccessible and\noccupied by Israel so I have not seen any independent \nreports of the existence of any diversion structure there.\nAnother often mentioned diversion is through deep wells.\nIt is also rumored that Israe has 600 m wells\ntapping into deep aquifers and drawing water on the\nIsraeli side of the border. If such wells are indeed\nunder use they would be costly to operate \n(high energy costs) and the Lebanese and Israeli gov't should \nagree on the distribution of water from shared aquifers\nas part of an overall peace plan and the bilateral\nnegociations on \"regional issues\". The fact that we have\nbeen at war all this time has led to the current state\nof affairs where withdrawals from such aquifers is\ncompletely unregulated.\n\n\nBasil\n\n\n\n", "What else do you expect? Israel is trying to portray itself\nas the great democracy. One requirement is to have a leader\nwho previously had an extra-marital affair (e.g. Bill Clinton)\nIt helps if your wife says it's OK.", "\nChristian anti-Semitism comes from the obvious fact that the Jews should\nknow the Hebrew Scriptures better than anyone else, yet they did not\nconvert to Christianity en mass, thus rejecting \"Christian Love.\"\n", "First of all I'm still baffled what you possibly could have\nfound racist in my argument for freedom of speach. I did not\nmention names, nationalities, countries let alone races. \n\tYou are right in that Virginia.edu does not have a\nthought police like Israel.nysernet.org seems to. I didn't know\nthat you guys are getting a privelege by the Israelis by\ngetting \"the means to speak publicly\". Virginia.edu lets EVERY\nstudent regardless of their opinion to speak their mind. \n\tVirginia.edu is true to its founding father, Thomas\nJefferson the author of the bill of rights, in allowing freedom\nof speach. Sorry you guys in israel have a hard time with the\nconcept.\n\n", "\n\nThat operation was done by a small Jewish fraction BEFORE the state even\nexisted and, as far as I remember, was disaproved by most of the Jews.\n\nSaying that \"He was killed by the Israelis\" is plain wrong because there wasn't\n\"Israel\" at the time.\n\nAnd as far as the Jews liked the idea of having part of the land you can see\ntheir reaction to the UN resolution from 29 November, and the Arab's reaction\ntoo (no, it wasn't that the Arabs danced in the streets with doznes of Jewish\nstates invading them but quite the other way around).\n\nBye,", "THE HAMAS WAY of DEATH\n \n (Following is a transcript of a recruitment and training\nvideotape made last summer by the Qassam Battalions, the military\narm of Hamas, an Islamic Palestinian group. Hamas figures\nsignificantly in the Middle East equation. In December, Israel\ndeported more than 400 Palestinians to Lebanon in response to\nHamas's kidnapping and execution of an Israeli soldier. A longer\nversion appears in the May issue of Harper's Magazine, which\nobtained and translated the tape.)\n \n My name is Yasir Hammad al-Hassan Ali. I live in Nuseirat [a\nrefugee camp in the Gaza Strip]. I was born in 1964. I finished\nhigh school, then attended Gaza Polytechnic. Later, I went to work\nfor Islamic University in Gaza as a clerk. I'm married and I have\ntwo daughters.\n The Qassam Battalions are the only group in Palestine\nexplicitly dedicated to jihad [holy war]. Our primary concern is\nPalestinians who collaborate with the enemy. Many young men and\nwomen have fallen prey to the cunning traps laid by the [Israeli]\nSecurity Services.\n Since our enemies are trying to obliterate our nation,\ncooperation with them is clearly a terrible crime. Our most\nimportant objective must be to put an end to the plague of\ncollaboration. To do so, we abduct collaborators, intimidate and\ninterrogate them in order to uncover other collaborators and expose\nthe methods that the enemy uses to lure Palestinians into\ncollaboration in the first place. In addition to that, naturally,\nwe confront the problem of collaborators by executing them.\n We don't execute every collaborator. After all, about 70\npercent of them are innocent victims, tricked or black-mailed into\ntheir misdeeds. The decision whether to execute a collaborator is\nbased on the seriousness of his crimes. If, like many\ncollaborators, he has been recruited as an agent of the Israeli\nBorder Guard then it is imperative that he be executed at once.\nHe's as dangerous as an Israeli soldier, so we treat him like an\nIsraeli soldier.\n There's another group of collaborators who perform an even\nmore loathsome role -- the ones who help the enemy trap young men\nand women in blackmail schemes that force them to become\ncollaborators. I regard the \"isqat\" [the process by which a\nPalestinians is blackmailed into collaboration] of single person as\ngreater crime than the killing of a demonstrator. If someone is\nguilty of causing repeated cases of isqat, than it is our religious\nduty to execute him.\n A third group of collaborators is responsible for the\ndistribution of narcotics. They work on direct orders from the\nSecurity Services to distribute drugs as widely as possible. Their\nvictims become addicted and soon find it unbearable to quit and\nimpossible to afford more. They collaborate in order to get the\ndrugs they crave. The dealers must also be executed.\n In the battalions, we have developed a very careful method of\nuncovering collaborators, We can't afford to abduct an innocent\nperson, because once we seize a person his reputation is tarnished\nforever. We will abduct and interrogate a collaborator only after\nevidence of his guilt has been established -- never before. If\nafter interrogation the collaborator is found guilty beyond any\ndoubt, then he is executed.\n In many cases, we don't have to make our evidence against\ncollaborators public, because everyone knows that they're guilty.\nBut when the public isn't aware that a certain individual is a\ncollaborator, and we accuse him, people are bound to ask for\nevidence. Many people will proclaim his innocence, so there must be\nirrefutable proof before he is executed. This proof is usually\nobtained in the form of a confession.\n At first, every collaborator denies his crimes. So we start\noff by showing the collaborator the testimony against him. We tell\nhim that he still has a chance to serve his people, even in the\nlast moment of his life, by confessing and giving us the\ninformation we need.\n We say that we know his repentance in sincere and that he has\nbeen a victim. That kind of talk is convincing. Most of them\nconfess after that. Others hold out; in those cases, we apply\npressure, both psychological and physical. Then the holdouts\nconfess as well.\n Only one collaborator has ever been executed without an\ninterrogation. In that case, the collaborator had been seen working\nfor the Border Guard since before the intifada, and he himself\nconfessed his involvement to a friend, who disclosed the\ninformation to us. In addition, three members of his network of\ncollaborators told us that he had caused their isqat. With this\nmuch evidence, there was no need to interrogate him. But we are\nvery careful to avoid wrongful executions. In every case, our\nprincipal is the same: the accused should be interrogated until he\nhimself confesses his crimes. \n A few weeks ago, we sat down and complied a list of\ncollaborators to decide whether there were any who could be\nexecuted without interrogation. An although we had hundreds of\nnames, still, because of our fear of God and of hell, we could not\nmark any of these men, except for the one I just mentioned, for\nexecution.\n When we execute a collaborator in public, we use a gun. But\nafter we abduct and interrogate a collaborator, we can't shoot him\n-- to do so might give away our locations. That's why collaborators\nare strangled. Sometimes we ask the collaborator, \"What do you\nthink? How should we execute you?\" One collaborator told us,\n\"Strangle me.\" He hated the sight of blood.\n", "\nSince one is also unlikely to get \"the truth\" from either Arab or \nPalestinian news outlets, where do we go to \"understand\", to learn? \nIs one form of propoganda more reliable than another? The only way \nto determine that is to try and get beyond the writer's \"political\nagenda\", whether it is \"on\" or \"against\" our *side*.\n\nTim ", "\n\nFind an encyclopedia. Volume H. Now look up Hitler, Adolf. He had\nmany more people than just Germans enamoured with him.\n\nP.", "\n\n\nwhy does this remind me of bosnia and ethnic cleansing ??????\n\n\n\ntippu\n\n", "[deleted]\n\nIt's noteworthy that the posts about the west being\nevil etc are made not in some Islamic hellhole but from\nthe west. If the west is so bad, why do they come here?\nNotice how they comfortably exercise their rights to\nfree expression, something completely absent in their\nown countries.\n\nVasudev\n", "\n\nActually, this is incorrect. French resistance may have played some\npart in hindering the German war effort, however the crucial role was\nsupplied on D-Day.\n\n\nInteresting statement. Especially when you consider that Lebanon\nhad claimed to have made progress in the peace talks, as well as\nIsrael. Of course, one of the prime obstacles to Israel's complete\nwithdrawal is the lack of governmental control that can be applied\nto the area as well as the large presence of Syrian forces which\nhave not been asked to withdraw as well.\n\n", "\nYes. As long as the goverment over there can force some authority and prevent\nterrorists attack against Israel. \n\n\nSinai had several big cities that were avcuated when isreal gave it back to\nEgypth, but for a peace agreement. So it is my opinin that the settlers will not\nbe an obstacle for withdrawal as long it is combined with a real peace agreement\nwith the Arabs and the Palastinians.\n\n\n\nNaftaly\n", "\n\n\nIsraeli nationalism (also known as Zionism) is the nationalism of the\nJewish people. The Jewish people are not a new phenomenon at all.\n\nPalestinean nationalism is the nationalism of Arab people. Arabs have\nbeen around for a long time. They already have some 2 dozen states,\nlarge and small, covering 98% of the Middle East.\n\nMore specifically, Palestinean nationalism is the nationalism of Arabs\nfrom the region of Palestine, just as Egyptian nationalism is the\nnationalism of Arabs from the region of Egypt. One Palestinean state\nalready exists in what was once known as Palestine: - it is called\nJordan. \n\nThere is no justification in carving out a second and tiny Palestinean\nstate out of the only Jewish state, itself very, very small, just as\nthere is no justification in carving out another American state out of\nMexico. \n\n\n", "\nThey certainly never CALLED themselves \"Palestinians\"\n\n\nComing from a soldier that can't surprise you. Eitan is now in\ncharge of Tsomet, and there's a reason why he only gets a few votes\nevery year: They only elect him because he is squeaky clean, no \ncorruption.\n\n\nI'm ignorant. What's New Statesman?\n\nOh, those Crafty Jews again! When will you learn, anti-Semite from \nIceland.\nLet's face it, in 1967, what other view was there?\n\nThe penniless could mean anyone, big guy. Grow up. I hate\nyour brackets. \n\nThey gave them advance warning. Not like the PLO, eh?\n\n\nYeah, yeah. More brackets. Am I too picky?\n\n\nBracket man.\nThat was the truth. Were you there, Elias?\n\n\nSo the Holocaust never happened, eh Naziman Elias?\n\n\nLehi always warned in advance. Not the PLO, buddy boy.\nIt was true! Why should Jews be unemployed? We say that in\nAmerica, Jerky.\n\nI firmly believe that today.\n\nYou don't understand metaphor, Naziman.\nAnd your quotes lead nowhere. Not only do I doubt there actuality,\nbut I guarantee they were compiled by some neo-Nazi group.\n\nBut I love your pseudo-intellectual approach. It makes you\nsound even dumber than your conclusions.\n\nEchad medinot leshtai amim.", "\nAlberto, you've repeatedly misunderstood my postings. You are now making the exact point\nthat I've made several times but with a different definition of religion. You don't not\nhave to believe in the \"religious\" aspects of Judaism to be a Jew (this would confine\nJudaism to be just a religion in the sense of a Christianity.). So, by converting out of\nJudaism, I don't mean just not believing in the god of Judaism. I mean voluntarily\nremoving yourself from the Jewish nation. I am an agnostic but still consider myself\nJewish because of my cultural heritage. (I admit that many religious jews would argue\nthat I am not completely jewish because of my lack of faith, but Judaism is a religion of\ndissent and debate isn't it?). The fact that one can opt to become Jewish simply by\nconverting to Judaism makes the nation of the jewish people the *least* racist and most\nopen nation. We have no quotas!\n\nSo I will once again make my point. Defining a member of the Jewish nation by religion\n(not, as you say, religious belief) is NOT racism. You come to your incorrect conclusion\nbecause you use a different definition for religion when you define the law of return and\nwhen you define judaism.", "\n\nUh Oh! The first sign of an argument without merit--the stating of one's \n\"qualifications\" in an area. If you know something about Nazi Germany, \nshow it. If you don't, shut up. Simple as that.\n", "\n\nIf you look at the bottom of this article you will see that I have very\nkindly dug up one of Yigal Arens previous postings (entirely without his\npermission, I hope he doesn't mind) containing translations from Ha'arezt\ndetailing just such a case. Perhaps you think that Ha'arezt lies? Would\nyou like to provide me with an assurance that this practise *never* occurs?\n\n\nRight, Arabs have been voting in Israel for how long? And in all that time\nNOT ONE Arab EVER gained enough of a personal following to get his fellow\nparty members to put in a Ministry? This is about as likely as sprouting\nwings and flying to Rio. What basis do you have for explaining this odd\nfailure? You seem very confident that you are right, exactly how do you\nknow, why are you sure?\n\n\nExactly what basis do you have for saying this when the Labour party\nhas never put an Arab into a Cabinet post and insists its coalition\nmembers do the same? Why and on what basis are you reassuring me in\nthe face of 50 years of discriminatory practise?\n\n\nHey what?? As I said even when their party puts them up they get knocked\nback. It surely couldn't be because they are Arabs is it?\n\n\nWell yes, but Security is the reason most often given by people who\nwant to make excuses. I merely thought it would crop up and so\npre-empted it.\n\nStart of Article (All commets in [*....*] are mine not Dr. Arens)\n\n[Comments in square brackets are mine - Yigal]\n\n\nRacism in the Knesset\n---------------------\n\nCoalition requirements on one hand, and the presence of progressive MKs\nfrom _Meretz_ in the coalition on the other, have compelled Rabin and\nhis friends to change, to some extent, their attitude towards the Arab\npublic and their representatives in the Knesset. Although he did refuse\nto view them as partners, taking part in the coalition and joining the\ngovernment, he did agree to meet with them and to give them a document\nof intentions which included a commitment to \"work towards a decrease in\nthe discrimination between Jewish and Arab citizens\". [Decrease WHAT?!?!\nBut posters have told us time and again that such discrimination does\nnot exist *at* *all*! Is Rabin, too, a closet self-hater??? - Yigal].\n\nHowever, racism has not disappeared. When the Knesset sat to consider\nwho would staff its various committees, a request was made to put an MK\nfrom Hadash [the Communist party, one of the \"Arab\" parties - Yigal] on\nthe State Comptroller's Committee. And oh, did that ever stir up a\nstorm -- including in the ranks of Labor -- since many Knesset members\nfind it unthinkable that an Arab MK sit on one of the important house\ncommittees. \"Security secrets\" are liable to fall into their hands...\n\nThis attitude -- which until recently had not even aroused criticism,\nbeing so natural and so deeply-embossed upon people's hearts -- holds\nthat there are Knesset members who, despite having been elected by tens\nof thousands of votes, are not entitled to be full partners in the body\nwhich represents the people of Israel. We are not speaking here of\npolitical discrimination -- which would be bad enough in itself -- but\nof racial discrimination. The proof: one of the compromises proposed\nwas that MK Mahamid [an Arab - Yigal] should be replaced by Tamar\nGojanski [a Jew - Yigal] from the same party. It was not the member's\nparty which was considered unfit, but his race...\n\n[* Here is a documented case in a respected Israeli newspaper. *]\n\nIt is worth noting that for the first time since the state's founding, a\npublic debate has arisen on this subject, as witness the following\narticle:\n\n\nA TEST OF SELF-CONFIDENCE\n\nBy Gid'on Levi, Ha'aretz, July 26, 1992\n\nRevelations of discrimination against Arabs have become such an integral\npart of our daily routine that there is not much effort made to deal\nwith them. [Do you hear that, -----? Please contact this Levi fellow\nand explain to him how little he knows about Israel. Please! - Yigal].\nExcept that sometimes the demon bursts out from behind the government's\nwindow dressing, and then the phenomenon is seven times more serious.\n\nLast week provided two more such examples: the Israeli Knesset is\nfinding it very difficult to allow Arab representation on its more\nimportant committees; and Israel Television is finding it no less\ndifficult to give a platform to Arabs from the territories. Seemingly\ntwo entirely different matters, but in fact they are one and the same.\n\nThe 13th Knesset proved last week that, even though one third of its\nmembers are new faces, it has not renewed its own face at all, at least\non one issue. Parliamentary traditions may be modernized and\nparliamentary traditions may become obsolete, and only one tradition\nendures forever: no Arab shall set foot in the more important committees\nof the house. There has never been and never will be an Arab MK on the\nExternal Affairs and Defense Committee or on the Finance Committee.\nWorlds have been overturned over the question of whether or not \"to\ngive\" Arabs, for the first time, a place on the State Comptroller's\nCommittee.\n\nThe arguments are old and well-known: In all three of the above\ncommittees innumerable secrets are revealed -- and woe unto us if an\nArab should hear them. One must not make light of such arguments, but\ntheir significance should also not be exaggerated. Every Arab MK is not\nspending all his time waiting for the opportune moment to hand over\ninformation from the Knesset committee room to Black Panther\nheadquarters in Jenin; and not all the aforementioned committees are\ncontinually occupied in the discussion of top-secret matters, which\ncould safely be revealed, for example, to MKs supportive of the Jewish\nUnderground, but not to an Arab MK from the Likud, Labor, or even from\nHadash.\n\nThe Arabs themselves would probably forego membership in the Subcommittee\non Secret Service Matters, but what would happen, one may ask, if MK\nNawaf Masalha were to hear, God forbid, a review of the Foreign Minister\nin an open meeting of the Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, or even\na review of the Army Chief of Staff which, in any case, are regularly\nleaked to the next edition of the news. And what would happen if MK\nHashem Mahamid were to report on what he had seen with his own eyes at\nal-Najah?\n\nTheir non-participation [in important committees] and that of their\ncolleagues, creates an intolerable situation, where Arab members of the\nelected house have only semi-positions. They are good enough for\naddressing plenary sessions, and for voting for or against the\ngovernment and participating in the deliberations of the Immigration and\nAbsorption Committee. But they must not, for example, participate in\nthe process of formulating the state budget in the Finance Committee or\nin the allocation of resources to local authorities. In any case, they\nhave little part in that.\n\nLabor's dependence on the support of the Arab parties has brought about\nsome improvement: MK Hashem Mahamid, will, it seems, participate in the\nState Comptroller's Committee. Earlier, there had been a ridiculous\nattempt made to dictate to Hadash who their representative should be,\nand thus to prevent the Arab from entering this dubious holy-of-holies,\nbut it soon became clear that there was no legal or constitutional\nbacking for such a step.\n\nBut not to worry: even now the Jewish mind is contriving devices. The\nnew Committee Chair, Roni Milo, has already announced that he will set up\nsubcommittees aplenty for his committee. Thus he will decide where it\nis permissible for Mahamid to participate and where not. A solution\nsuch as this could, by the way, also have been adopted for the rest of\nthe committees, thereby completely eliminating the fear of state secrets\nbeing leaked to the enemy and removing the stain of discrimination from\nthe Knesset.\n\n[. . .]\n\nEnd Article\n\nDo you accept that as documentation?\n\nJoseph Askew\n", "\nAt issue was not a trial behind closed doors, but arrest, trial and\nimprisonment in complete secrecy. This was appraently attempted in the\ncase of Vanunu and failed. It has happened before, and there is reason\nto believe it still goes on.\n\nRead this:\n\nFrom Ma'ariv, February 18 (possibly 28), 1992\n\nPUBLICATION BAN\n\n The State of Israel has never officially admitted that for many\n years there have been in its prisons Israeli citizens who were\n sentenced to long prison terms without either the fact of\n their arrest or the crimes of which they were accused ever\n being made public.\n\nBy Baruch Me'iri\n\nAll those involved in this matter politely refused my request, one way\nor another: \"Look, the subject is too delicate. If I comment on it, I\nwill be implicitly admitting that it is true; If I mention a specific\ncase, even hint at it, I might be guilty of making public something\nwhich may legally not be published\".\n\nThe State of Israel has never officially admitted that for many years\nthere have been in its prisons Israeli citizens who were sentenced to\nlong prison terms without either the fact of their arrest or the\ncrimes of which they were accused ever being made public. More\nprecisely: A court ordered publication ban was placed on the fact of\ntheir arrest, and later on their imprisonment.\n\nIn Israel of 1993, citizens are imprisoned without us, the citizens of\nthis country, knowing anything about it. Not knowing anything about\nthe fact that one person or another were tried and thrown in prison,\nfor security offenses, in complete secrecy.\n\nIn the distant past -- for example during the days of the [Lavon - YA]\naffair -- we heard about \"the third man\" being in prison. But many\nyears have passed since then, and what existed then can today no\nlonger be found even in South American countries, or in the former\nCommunist countries.\n\nBut it appears that this is still possible in Israel of 1993.\n\nThe Chair of the Knesset Committee on Law, the Constitution and\nJustice, MK David Zucker, sent a letter on this subject early this\nweek to the Prime Minister, the Minister of Justice, and the Cabinet\nLegal Advisor. Ma'ariv has obtained the content of the letter:\n\n\"During the past several years a number of Israeli citizens have been\nimprisoned for various periods for security offenses. In some of\nthese cases a legal publication ban was imposed not only on the\nspecifics of the crimes for which the prisoners were convicted, but\neven on the mere fact of their imprisonment. In those cases, after\nbeing legally convicted, the prisoners spend their term in prison\nwithout public awareness either of the imprisonment or of the\nprisoner\", asserts MK Zucker.\n\nOn the other hand Zucker agrees in his letter that, \"There is\nabsolutely no question that it is possible, and in some cases it is\nimperative, that a publication ban be imposed on the specifics of\nsecurity offenses and the course of trials. But even in such cases\nthe Court must weigh carefully and deliberately the circumstances\nunder which a trial will not be held in public.\n\n\"However, one must ask whether the imposition of a publication ban on\nthe mere fact of a person's arrest, and on the name of a person\nsentenced to prison, is justified and appropriate in the State of\nIsrael. The principle of public trial and the right of the public to\nknow are not consistent with the disappearance of a person from public\nsight and his descent into the abyss of prison.\"\n\nZucker thus decided to turn to the Prime Minister, the Minister of\nJustice and the Cabinet Legal Advisor and request that they consider\nthe question. \"The State of Israel is strong enough to withstand the\ncost incurred by abiding by the principle of public punishment. The\nState of Israel cannot be allowed to have prisoners whose detention\nand its cause is kept secret\", wrote Zucker.\n\nThe legal counsel of the Civil Rights Union, Attorney Mordechai\nShiffman said that, \"We, as the Civil Rights Union, do not know of any\ncases of security prisoners, Citizens of Israel, who are imprisoned,\nand whose imprisonment cannot be made public. This is a situation\nwhich, if it actually exists, is definitely unhealthy. Just like\ncensorship is an unhealthy matter\".\n\n\"The Union is aware\", says Shiffman, \"of cases where notification of a\nsuspect's arrest to family members and lawyers is withheld. I am\nspeaking only of several days. I know also of cases where a detainee\nwas not allowed to meet with an attorney -- sometimes for the whole\nfirst month of arrest. That is done because of the great secrecy.\n\n\"The suspect himself, his family, his lawyer -- or even a journalist --\ncan challenge the publication ban in court. But there are cases where\nthe family members themselves are not interested in publicity. The\njournalist knows nothing of the arrest, and so almost everyone is\nhappy...\"\n\nAttorney Yossi Arnon, an official of the Bar, claims that given the\nlaws as they exist in Israel today, a situation where the arrest of a\nperson for security offenses is kept secret is definitely possible. \n\"Nothing is easier. The court orders a publication ban, and that's\nthat. Someone who has committed security offenses can spend long\nyears in prison without us knowing anything about it.\"\n\n-- Do you find this situation acceptable?\n\nAttorney Arnon: \"Definitely not. We live in a democratic country, and\nsuch a state of affairs is impermissible. I am well aware that\npublication can be damaging -- from the standpoint of security -- but\ntotal non-publication, silence, is unacceptable. Consider the trial of\nMordechai Vanunu: at least in his case we know that he was charged\nwith aggravated espionage and sentenced to 18 years in prison. The\ntrial was held behind closed doors, nobody knew the details except for\nthose who were authorized to. It is somehow possible to understand,\nthough not to accept, the reasons, but, as I have noted, we at least\nare aware of his imprisonment.\"\n\n-- Why is the matter actually that serious? Can't we trust the\ndiscretion of the court?\n\nAttorney Arnon: \"The judges have no choice but to trust the\npresentations made to them. The judges do not have the tools to\ninvestigate. This gives the government enormous power, power which\nthey can misuse.\"\n\n-- And what if there really is a security issue?\n\nAttorney Arnon: \"I am a man of the legal system, not a security expert.\n Democracy stands in opposition to security. I believe it is possible\nto publicize the matter of the arrest and the charges -- without\nentering into detail. We have already seen how the laws concerning\npublication bans can be misused, in the case of the Rachel Heller\nmurder. A suspect in the murder was held for many months without the\nmatter being made public.\"\n\nAttorney Shiffman, on the other hand, believes that state security can\nbe a legitimate reason for prohibiting publication of a suspect's\narrest, or of a convicted criminal's imprisonment. \"A healthy\nsituation? Definitely not. But I am aware of the fact that mere\npublication may be harmful to state security\".\n\nA different opinion is expressed by attorney Uri Shtendal, former\nadvisor for Arab affairs to Prime Ministers Levi Eshkol and Golda\nMeir. \"Clearly, we are speaking of isolated special cases. Such\nsituations contrast with the principle that a judicial proceeding must\nbe held in public. No doubt this contradicts the principle of freedom\nof expression. Definitely also to the principle of individual freedom\nwhich is also harmed by the prohibition of publication.\n\n\"Nevertheless\", adds Shtendal, \"the legislator allowed for the\npossibility of such a ban, to accommodate special cases where the\ndamage possible as a consequence of publication is greater than that\nwhich may follow from an abridgment of the principles I've mentioned.\nThe authority to decide such matters of publication does not rest with\nthe Prime Minister or the security services, but with the court, which\nwe may rest assured will authorize a publication ban only if it has\nbeen convinced of its need beyond a shadow of a doubt.\"\n\nNevertheless, attorney Shtendal agrees: \"As a rule, clearly such a\nphenomenon is undesirable. Such an extreme step must be taken only in\nthe most extreme circumstances.\"", "From: Center for Policy Research \nSubject: conf:mideast.levant\n\n\nRights of children violated by the State of Israel (selected\narticles of the IV Geneva Convention of 1949)\n-------------------------------------------------------------\nArticle 31: No physical or moral coercion shall be exercised\nagainst protected persons, in particular to obtain information\nfrom them or from third parties.\n\nArticle 32: The High Contracting Parties specifically agree that\neach of them is prohibited from taking any measure of such a\ncharacter as to cause the physical suffering or extermination of\nprotected persons in their hands. This prohibition applies not\nonly to murder, torture, corporal punishment (...) but also to any\nother measures of brutality whether applied by civilian or\nmilitary agents.\n\nArticle 33: No protected person may be punished for an offence he\nor she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and\nlikewise measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited.\n\nArticle 34: Taking of hostages is prohibited.\n\nArticle 49: Individual or mass forcible transfers, as well as\ndeportations of protected persons from occupied territory to the\nterritory of the Occupying Power or to that of any other country,\noccupied or not, are prohibited, regardless of their motive.\n\nArticle 50: The Occupying Power shall, with the cooperation of\nthe national and local authorities, facilitate the proper working\nof all institutions devoted to the care and education of\nchildren.\n\nArticle 53: Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or\npersonal property belonging individually or collectively to\nprivate persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities,\nor to social or cooperative organizations, is prohibited, except\nwhere such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by\nmilitary operations.", "\n[most of Brads post deleted.]\n\n\n\tTell me, do these young men also attack Syrian troops?\n\n\n\n\tThere must be a guarantee of peace before this happens. It\nseems that many of these Lebanese youth are unable to restrain\nthemselves from violence, and unable to to realize that their actions\nprolong Israels stay in South Lebanon.\n\n\tIf the Lebanese army was able to maintain the peace, then\nIsrael would not have to be there. Until it is, Israel prefers that\nits soldiers die rather than its children.\n\n\n\n\tIsrael should withdraw from Lebanon when a peace treaty is\nsigned. Not a day before. Withdraw because of casualties would tell\nthe Lebanese people that all they need to do to push Israel around is\nkill a few soldiers. Its not gonna happen.\n\n\n\n\tWhy should Israel not demand this while holding the buffer\nzone? It seems to me that the better bargaining position is while\nholding your neighbors land. If Lebanon were willing to agree to\nthose conditions, Israel would quite probably have left already.\nUnfortunately, it doesn't seem that the Lebanese can disarm the\nHizbolah, and maintain the peace.\n\nAdam\nAdam Shostack \t\t\t\t adam@das.harvard.edu", null ], "marker": { "opacity": 0.5, "size": 5 }, "mode": "markers+text", "name": "7_the_of_to", "text": [ "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", 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"dtype": "f4" } }, { "hoverinfo": "text", "hovertext": [ "\nWell, looking at the videos it seems that this fire started in various\nplaces at the same time, which would indicate that this was a planned\naction. I'm sure FBI and BATF didn't *deliberately* start a possible\nfire, having a sniper kill Korresh would have been a far easier \nmethod. Looking at the careful operation, and use of tear gas\nthat as I know don't start fires, it is less likely that this \nwas the case.\n\nSorry, but my bets are on fanatical people keen to start\nArmageddon -- theirs.\n\nCheers,\nKent", "\n...the question is: for how long? Even if the FBI had done nothing, I guess the \nBDs would have committed suicide, but maybe not until hunger and thirst gave them\nthe choice between sucide or surrender. \nThe BDs was warned in beforehand about the FBI action. They HAD the chance to\nsurrender and get a fair trial. No matter who started the fire, the BDs were \nresponsible for 80+ peole dying. No one else.\n", "\nOnce again, Koresh closed the door on an agent with a search warrant,\nand the door was then perforated by a rain of bullets from the\ninside.\n\nThey shot first.\n\n", "\n\n\n I HEARTILY agree. Now that the BATF warrant has been \n unsealed, it is CLEAR that Clinton and Reno supported an\n ILLEGAL raid. Did they not KNOW this?\n\n\n\n NO authority for a 'no-knock\" raid\n NO authority to use helicopters.\n NO authority to search for a \"drug lab\"\n\n And, apparently, not even any authority to search for \"automatic\n weapons\".", "\nHow about letting in the press?\n\nHow about letting Koresh out to talk to the press?\n\nMaybe if he had been allowed to talk with the press/TV for a couple of\ndays he would have surrendered peacefully.\n\n\nHow about letting the relatives of Koresh`s followers talk?\n\n\nSeems to me when you isolate someone, try to send them crazy by playing\nloudspeakers through the night of Tibetan chants, etc., you don`t have\nmuch to stand on when they behave as if they are crazy. (I`m not too\nsure of their sanity to start with.)\n\nI am VERY suspicious when the government controls all communication,\nand sends the press 2 miles away. \nI have a gut feeling that no-knock warrant, which is sealed, would not\nstand up to scrutiny.", "Would someone be kind enought to document the exact\nnature of the evidence against the BD's without reference to\nhearsay or newsreports. I would also like to know more about\ntheir past record etc. but again based on solid not media\nreports. \n\n\tMy reason for asking for such evidence is that last night\non Larry King Live a so-called \"cult-expert\" was interviewed from\nAustralia who claimed that it was his evidence which led to the\noriginal raid. This admission, if true, raises the nasty\npossibility that the Government acted in good faith, which I\nbelieve they did, on faulty evidence. It also raises the\npossibility that other self proclaimed cult experts were advising\nthem and giving ver poor advice.", "Fellow Texans and Members of Crime Strike in Texas\n \nCrime Strike in Texas has a loosely knit coalition with most\nVictims Rights Groups in Texas. We ask that you write a\nletter protesting the release of the following murderer.\n \nThis letter should be written to :\n \nRaven Kazen - Victims Services\nBoard of Pardons and Paroles\nP.O. Box 13401 - Capital Station\nAustin, Texas 78711\n \nThe letter should be written if at all possible on RED PAPER\nas that was agreed on at one of our first meetings . It\nrepresents the coalition and all of its parts as well as the\nheart ache of those left behind and the blood spilled by\nthese criminals. The letter should have only one name on it\nso it can be filed in the folder of that criminal waiting for\nhis next try at parole.\n \nList of Criminals:\n \nToday we have only one parole to protest , On October 4,\n1990, Mark Steven Hughes rendered numerous blows to the head\nof James Allen Pompa . Ten month old James went into a coma\nand died two days later.\n \nOn July 8, 1992, Mark Steven Hughes pled guilty to Injury to\na Child and received a ten-year sentence. According to Texas\nlaw, Mark became eligible for parole on January 4, 1992 --\nsix months before he was even sentenced!\n \nWould you join us in strongly protesting the release from\nprison of Mark Steven Hughes, who beat a baby to death .\n \nMark Steven Hughes - beat to death the baby boy of\nRussel Pompa -- Reference Mark Steven Hughes - TDC# 633546\n \n \nMark your envelope \"PROTEST LETTER\" on the front and back.\n \nA typical letter is indicated on the next page ---\n \nTHANK YOU VERY MUCH.\n \nIrvin Wilson - Volunteer Crime Strike Texas\n \n \nDate: April 13, 1993\n \nRaven Kazen - Victims Services\nBoard of Pardons and Paroles\nP.O. Box 13401 - Capital Station\nAustin , Texas 78711\n \nI protest the parole of Mark Steven Hughes TDC#633546, who,\nmurdered James Son of Russel Pompa.\n \nHe should be kept in prison for his full sentence and not be\nreleased at any time prior to his full sentence for any\nreason.\n \n \nIrvin Wilson\nHouston, Texas\n ", "\nWhat if.......\n\nWhat if the FBI thought that tear gas would force the Davidians out;\nat least the mothers and the children, so they (the FBI) did not\nbother to think about the effect of tear gas on young children......\n\nWhat if the FBI knew they killed several of the children by using\ntear gas......(let`s assume the FBI knew via their listening devices)\n\nWhat if the FBI saw fire accidently break out at one end of the\nbuilding, e.g. by an upset oil lamp.......\n\nWhat if the FBI thought they could finally force the rest of the\nDavidians out AND also destroy the evidence that they (the FBI) had\nkilled the children by starting a fire at the other end......\n\nWhat if the FBI miscalculated and not many of the rest of the Davidians\nmade it out.......?????", "\n\n\n\n\nNo, they didn't have electrical power, but no, I don't find the idea of\nDavidians calmly cooking lunch with gas masks on as the FBI knocks the\nbuildings down very credible,either.\n\nIt's not like this whole discussion is relevant. It started when some-\none made the wholly unsubstantiated allegation that the wood stove ig-\nnited NAPALM the FBI shot into the buildings.\n\nI'm not a groveling apoligist for the feds, far from it. But wild ac-\ncusations like this are ridiculous and obfuscate legitimate criticism of\ntheir conduct in this whole affair.", "Something about how Koresh had threatened to cause local \nproblems with all these wepaons he had and was alleged to\nhave. \n\nSomeone else will post more details soon, I'm sure.\n\nOther News:\nSniper injures 9 outside MCA buildling in L.A. Man arrested--suspect\nwas disgruntled employee of Universal Studios, which\nis a division of M.C.A.\n\n\nQUESTION:\nWhat will Californians do with all those guns after the Reginald\ndenny trial?", "\n\nI don't know how quickly YOU can get a woodstove to heat up from a cold\nstart, but mine takes about three hours.\n\n\nMox nix. The BD's were prepared to provide their own heat and light,\nand were doing so for weeks while the power was out. That means the\ncompound contained containers of flammable liquids or gases (that could\nbe busted by a tank intrusion), plus ignition sources, which no one can \ntell for sure were all off at the time.\n\n\nOn the contrary. We are proposing alternate scenarios. The people who\nare coming to wild conclusions are the feds, who are absolutely positive\nhow the fire started, even though none of them were in a position to \nsee it, either (and the stories they \"hear\" from their prisoners changes\nhourly).\n-- ", "\n\n\nActually, if I were one of the survivors and wanted to institute a civil\nrights violation lawsuit against the Treasury Dept., I would claim that\nthe BATF/FBI itself was to blame for any mass hysteria/insanity...", "Hi folks!\t\t\n\nRecently saw one post about KREME being a *bad idea*, but that was only\t\none man's opinion. \t", "I see no difference between Janet Reno's claim of responsibility for\nthe Waco Massacre and the IRA's claims of responsibility for various\nacts of terrorism against British citizens.\n\n\n-- \nDave Feustel N9MYI ", "\nNot to mention that the story was rewritten today. Those two BD's who\n\"admitted to starting the fire\", forget 'em, they don't exist anyone.\nToday, \"a few saw someone starting a fire\" and \"our aerial surveillance\nshowed them starting fires\" at this morning's press conference. \nTomorrow, even this excuse may evaporate. A reporter pointed out\nthat a BD being brought to arraingement shouted that tanks knocking\nover lanterns started the fire. Curiouser and curiouser.\n\n", "The Waco Quiz\n\nWhat would you do in the following hypothetical situations?\n\nYou have committed no crime. The BATF conducts a \"no-knock\" raid.\na) Hands in air. Say \"Do you have a warrant?\" Think of hefty suit settlement.\nb) Say \"You have 1 second to identify yourself as a cop or I shoot.\"\nc) Shoot. Heck, at least in federal prison you might get to have sex.\n\nYou have killed federal agents. They blast strange music at you.\na) Come out with hands up. \"I wish to turn state's evidence.\" Hope deal's good.\nb) Wait, figuring other federal agents will get bored and go on vacation.\nc) Wait. If they come after you there will be a chance to kill MORE g-men.\n\nThe FBI has you surrounded, asks you to come out immediately.\na) Come out, figuring long prison term is chance to catch up on some writing.\nb) Stall. You just can't concentrate when you're on trial for some reason.\nc) Decide to write novel-length prophecy now while ideas are fresh in mind.\n\nFBI calls and says they will use tear gas if you don't come out.\na) Come out with hands up. Your radical bro-in-law hated getting gassed at UC.\nb) Get out your gas mask. Really, these feds will have to give up eventually.\nc) Shoot at vehicles delivering tear gas. It's rude to break down a man's door!\n\nFBI calls and says they will use tanks to break down your walls.\na) Come out with your hands up. Flimsy cardboard construction won't last long.\nb) With presence of mind, move flammable devices away from tinder-dry haybales.\nc) Spread some kerosene around and hit a match. Big Schwarzenegger ending.\n\nPoints are awarded in the following manner: 0 points for every (a) answer,\n-1 points for every (b) answer, and -2 points for every (c) answer.\nCount 'em up and compare with your friends!\n\nIf you answered (a) all the time, you are probably in jail, but alive.\nIf you answered (b) all the time, you may still be holed up in your compound.\nIf you answered (c) all the time, you are probably dead.\n\n(Feel free to copy this and distribute to your friends.)\n", "\n\nWait a minute. The story being pushed here is that the fire started\nin ONE PLACE. This is not consistent with the story that they were\nTRAPPED by the fire (particularly in a building that all of a sudden\nhad many more exits).\n\nChoose one, please.\n\n\nWell, for everyone besides Koresh and his blood children, we can \nassume independent choice: Ah, they chose to stay in the face of\nan assault which clearly endangered their lives. Or, alternatively,\nthey were not permitted to leave. Choose one.\n", "\n\nThe suggestion that they Davidians committed suicide is\ncompletely without evidence. Except for the editorials...\n\nPlease re-word. \"propensity for allegedly dousing themselves\".\n\nOh, and the survivors claim the the FBI started the burning\nby accidentally igniting kerosene lanterns (remember that they'd\nalready cut the power), and the propane tanks. This sounds\na lot more likely than committing suicide by setting the place\nafire.\n\n--D", "Yesterday, the FBI was saying that at least three of the bodies had\ngunshot wounds, indicating that they were shot trying to escape the\nfire. Today's paper quotes the medical examiner as saying that there\nis no evidence of gunshot wounds in any of the recovered bodies.\n\nAt the beginning of this siege, it was reported that while Koresh\nhad a class III (machine gun) license, today's paper quotes the\ngovernment as saying, no, they didn't have a license.\n\nToday's paper reports that a number of the bodies were found with\nshoulder weapons next to them, as if they had been using them while\ndying -- which doesn't sound like the sort of action I would expect\nfrom a suicide.\n\nOur government lies, as it tries to cover over its incompetence\nand negligence. Why should I believe the FBI's claims about\nanything else, when we can see that they are LYING?\n\nThis system of government is beyond reform.", "Dear netters\n\nI am wondering about the accident of Koresh. I have heard different \nexplanations.\nWithout any explanation about your opinions and believes,\n please kindly tell me:\n\n 1)- What was Koresh talking about?. (Or what was his message)\n 2)- What was the main reason that Government went in war with\n Koresh?\n(Some say that due to Tax payment, ....)\n\nThanks in advance for your historical explanation.", "\nWell, they never should have gotten into this situation.\n\nLook at the history of this group. David Koresh has been arrested\n?twice? by local police. Both times, he accepted the arrest warrant\nand went peacefully. So, the feds decide to arrest him. How do they\nchoose to arrest a person with a record of peaceful obedience under\narrest? They throw a concussion grenades at his building. \n\nIn addition, we KNOW that we've been lied to. Initially, we were told\nthat they suspected him of molesting children and having several\nwives. But these are NOT ATF offenses, were they? So they changed\ntheir story, several times. And the original warrant is STILL sealed.\nAnd we were told about the rockets and ammunition they had... but did\nanyone notice any ammo exploding in the fire? They claimed that Koresh\nhadn't left the compound in months... but people in town report seeing\nhim just a week before the raid.\n\nHow would I have handled it differently? \n\nWell, first, I haven't seen any evidence that the BDs did anything\nwrong. There's a sealed warrant, and a collection of stories which\nkeep changing about what they did. So I might not have done ANYTHING.\n\nOK. Now, supposing that I know what the BDs are being arrested for.\nWell, they've got a history of accepting arrests... so, I send\nofficers to the door with a warrant. Wearing bulletproof vests.\nCovered from a distance by sharpshooters. Now, there's no good reason\nto suspect that these people will do anything, right? Why didn't\nanyone TRY serving a warrant?\n\nOK. Going further. They refuse the warrant. It becomes necessary to\nraid. You plan a raid. You hear an hour before that there was a leak,\nand they know your coming. SO what do you do? Well, change your\nplans, right? Nope... they go ahead with it anyone... including\nsending in unprotected men to break into the place. It was idiotic. I\ndon't know what I would have ended up doing. But that original raid\nshould NEVER have happened.\n\nThe shit that came later should NEVER have happened.\n\nThe full record of the raid should be released to the public to let us\nknow what the hell really happened there.\n\nThe lies should NEVER have been told.\n\n\t", " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nI watched the CNN report and I never heard them report that the ATF started the\nfire. They did speculate that the type of CS gas might have _accidentaly_\nstarted the fire. \n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nFrom my understanding of the CNN report it was 6 HOURS after they started.\n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nThe track vehicle that I saw in the vicinity of the building where fire was \nfirst noticed looked more like an armored recovery vehicle (the type used to \ntow tanks of battle fields) and not an armored flame-thrower vehicle.\n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nAs someone else has pointed out, why would the stove be in use on a warm day \nin Texas. It seems to me that it would be very poor planing to hope for a wood\nstove to ignite the \"napalm\" when the stove would probably not be in use. And \nI doubt that it would have taken 6 hours to ignite it.\n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nRight Clinton is in office. (Sorry I couldn't resist, please no flames :))\n\n\nIn short Mr. Gorman (I am assuming Mr. as a title because I don't think a woman\nwould be stupid enough to make this post) I don't know what episode of CNN you\nwere watching but it obviously was not the same one that I was watching or your\ntears seamed to have blured your hearing along with your eye sight.\n\nPlease excuse any mispelled words as I am a product of the Arkansas education\nsystem which Slick Willie of the \"Double Bubba Ticket\" has so greately improved\nduring his tenour as Governer of my great state (taking it from 49th in the \nnation in 1980 and allowing it to drop to 51st, how I don't know, and bringing\nit to 44st and back to either 48th or 49th in 1990--sorry I can't rember the \nsource of these numbers but they can be found).", "\tPersonally, I think it was Mrs. O'Leary's cow that knocked over that\nlantern...\n\n:*)", "Anyone catch the TV show Law & Order last night (at least here in\nNYC)? They \"the law enforcement people\", needed to catch a member of\nDoD (Department of Doom) for inflicting a computer virus in a\nhospital's mainframe which ended up killing two people because wrong\namounts of medication were given to them.\n\nAnyhow, is \"Department of Doom\" on the list?", ": In article <1r6p8oINN8hi@clem.handheld.com>, jmd@cube.handheld.com (Jim De\n: > \n: > I have not made up my mind about Waco, but there sure seems to be a group of \n: > devoted government following fanatics willing to believe whatever that \n: > government wants to tell them, without any shred of doubt, nor thought of thier\n: > own. They sure get shrill whenever their belief structure is being shaken.\n: > \n: > Kinda reminds you of the BDs, doesn't it?\n: > \n: > Jim\n\n: Go to hell. I'm no \"government [-] following fanatic.\" Your sweeping\n: generalizations evince your own ignorance. What were they supposed to do?\n: Just let him be? \n\nYes. Given the history of the BD's and the fact that they were just \npeacefully minding their own business, I think this would have been\nthe correct course of action in the very beginning. Everything that\nfollowed was a direct result of the major media fuck-up that the BATF\nperpetrated just over 51 days ago.\n\n:Fuck him. Fuck the ATF, too. They should've done it right\n: the first time.\n\n: joe.kusmierczak@mail.trincoll.edu\n\nYep, no doubt about it. They should have just bombed those kooks\nright from the git-go. Yeah, sure! So much for any resemblence\nto an America that abides by the Constitution. So much for feeling\nsafe in your home. So much for any of the rights enumerated in the\nBill of Rights being upheld. Why bother? They just get in the way\nof an effective government. That is, a government of the elite, by\nthe elite, for the elite. \n\nJoe, attitudes like yours frighten me. You have very few facts about\nwhat actually happened, and what information you do have came from a \nsingle source, the FBI/BATF. Yet you are more than happy to pronounce\nthe BD's guilty-as-charged based on this one-sided testimony. Scary!\n", "Ever since the siege at Waco started the FBI spokesman has been\nstressing how unstable and paranoid David Koresh was. He stressed how\nlikely it was the the Branch Davidians would commit mass suicide. He\nwas concerned with the safety of the children.\n \nWhat did the FBI do to defuse the situation, Did they try to reassure\nKoresh? DId the FBI offer medical assistance to the BD? Did the FBI\noffer them a supply of water when the BD pump stoped working? Did the\npermit Koresh to communicate with anyone outside the compound?\n \nWhat the FBI did was harass the Branch Davidians as much as possible.\nThey kept powerful lights shining on the compound, shut off their\nelectrical power, put their pump out of action, assaulted their ears\nwith loud noise, cut off their communication with the outside and kept\nlimiting their permitter. The stated goal was to put pressure on\nDavid Koresh.\n \nWas the FBI attempting to get Koresh to surrender or were they hoping\nto get Koresh so mad that he and some of his followers would attack\nthe the tanks.\n \nIt appears that the tactics employed by the FBI did drive Koresh over\nthe edge. The blame for the deaths should be shared by both the\nfederal experts whose tactics drove Koresh over the edge and the fools\nat the ATF who planed the raid.\n \nStupidity and incompetence of the BATF and the FBI leadership have\nresulted in the needless death of 90 innocent people.\n \nIf every thing had gone as planned 90 people would be alive today.\nInstead the ATF screwed up and caused the death of 90+. Incompetent\nlaw enforcement can kill you!\n \n", "\nHow about tell everyone what the hell they were doing there in the first place?\n\nIf we knew that, we'd be in a much better position to judge their actions.\nUntil then, we can only speculate and develop nice conspiracy and/or police\nstate stories.", "\nI agree, I saw no reason they could not have had \"close in\" pool\ncameras manned by volunteers and protected by sandbags or whatever.\n\n[Points made by Dick DeGueran, Koresh's lawyer]\n\nOkay, their word against the FBI's at this point. See ya in court!\n\n\nDear, dear. They could have COME OUT.\n\n\nOkay, they were living in a fire hazard. That they built.\n\n\nNo crime, irrelevant either way.\n\n\nAh yes, that is exactly what I would do. Hold Bible study. Take a nap.\nAlways a wise course of action when you're being gassed.\n\n\nI don't believe there was a \"suicide pact\". I believe that Koresh\nwanted a fiery conflagration ... which he may not have told his followers.\nIn fact, this hypothesis is CONFIRMED by the survivors' stories.\n\n\nYes, that's right. And once the whole compound was demolished, where\ndid they expect to go?\n\n\nThe building is being RAMMED and they are going UPSTAIRS? That's almost\nas bad as running into a fire.\n\n\nHm, an interesting notion. We'll see.\n\n\nMore Bible study, no doubt. Hey, it's a *priority*.\n\n\nActually, on Friday he stated that there was no evidence either way and\nhe could not flatly contradict the federal agents' claims. We'll know\nmore later. In any event, it's irrelevant.\n\n\nFor six hours they were trapped? The building was not \"destroyed\" \nimmediately. They COULD HAVE LEFT AT ANY TIME.\n\n\nSix hours to move it away. Or COME OUT.\n\n\nIrrelevant, anyway. PR one way or the other, but no crime or innocence\nindicated.\n\n\nNo word on whether they were being fired back at, which is an operative\nquestion here.\n\n\nRight. For six hours you know that a tank could come thru the wall at \nany point, and you leave a COLEMAN LANTERN BURNING. Near BALES OF HAY.\n\n\nIt's ultimately irrelevant who \"lit\" the fire. They had ample opportunity\nto LEAVE.\n\n\nMost charismatic leaders are extremely intelligent, actually. They tend\nto be excellent actors and skilled manipulators. (Ex.: Ted Bundy.)\n\n\nMedical assistance was jsut a phone call away. Gee, all he had to do\nwas COME OUT.\n\n\nNot relevant to any crimes.\n\n\nWhile he was there. Anyway, outsiders RARELY see abuse. It's a secretive\nthing. All we have to go on are the court documents in the Jewell case\nand the mistrial in California.\n\n\nEXACTLY. By their OWN CHOICE.\n\n\nLooks like there will be several investigations, starting with Congressional\ncommittee hearings next week....\n\n\nI have NEVER judged them by their religion, but by their ACTIONS.\n\nIf they had lived a quiet, religious life as they claimed, there would\nhave been no raid, no siege, and no deaths. Instead, they chose courses\nof action at every turn that were at the very least STUPID, if not\nIRRATIONAL. The first was to stockpile weapons. The second was to\nshoot federal agents. The third was to stay inside.\n\nJust as we don't blame a cop who shoots a kid who had pointed a toy\nweapon at him, I don't think the FBI deserves blame in this case.\n", "After seeing William Sessions on television, explaining the great lengths\nto which the FBI went to determine the suicidal tendancies of David Koresh, \nI got the very unpleasent feeling that Koresh had manipulated the FBI's \nperceptions much the way he manipulated his own followers.\n\nMaybe I was manipulated by the news story.", ": What happened in Waco is not the fault of the BATF. If they would of\n: had the proper equipment and personal then they could of captured the\n: compound on the initial assault and none of this would of happened.\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n Initial assault on the \"compound\" ( more like a wooden farm house if\n it burned to the ground like it did ) for WHAT? Regardless of who\n started/caused the fire, NONE of this would have happened if the\n ATF can HONESTLY justify their initial assault and handled it \n properly! \n\n QUESTION AUTHORITY!\n \n\n: With the WoD and the increased crime in the streets the BATF is needed\n: more now then ever. If they blast away a few good fokes then that is\n: the price we all have to pay for law and order in this country. Look\n: at all the good people that died in wars to protect this great country\n: of ours.\n: \n: With the arms build up in Waco they needed to hit that compound with\n\n Show me some evidenence instead of repeating what the FBI/ATF\n told you.\n\n: mega fire power. They could of gone in there blasting and killed a few\n: women and kids but it would of been better then letting them all burn\n: to death 51 days later.\n\n Then I'm sure you won't mind if the ATF or the DEA raid your house\n someday on a bogus informant tip. So what if they killed/wounded your \n family \"accidentally\" during the raid, it's just a fair price to pay\n for law and order in this country, right? Answer this question \n honestly before making anymore ignorant statements!\n\n What is even more disturbing than out of control government agencies\n are citizens who allow them to be irresponsible. ", "\nNo crime here.\n\n\nNo crime here.\n\n\nNo crime here.\nAlso no substantiation of your claim that Koresh said this. I for one have\nnever heard this mentioned before. Where did you hear it?\n\n\nUp to which moment? The one where you decided that anyone who claims to be\nGod no longer has the protection of the Constitution?\nWhat happened to the separation of church and state?\n\n\nI have yet to see any evidence of *this*, either. From what I hear the\n*original* warrant (the reason for the Feb. raid) is still sealed. What are\n\"unsealed\" seem to be warrants taken out after the initial raid.\n\n\nFunny, I haven't seen any of these \"interviews.\"\nInteresting that when the social services agencies investigated Koresh on\nthese previous charges, they found absolutely no evidence of abuse.\n\n\nFunny, I don't remember hearing anything about childrens' statements,\neither. Where did you say you heard all this?\n\nWhat *I* heard was that none of the children who left the compound early in\nthe seige exhibited any signs typical of abuse, physical or mental. This\nfrom the newspaper and national TV news.\n\nDid you also hear that it's the job of the BATF and the FBI to lay siege to\nhomes where child abuse is suspected? I thought you did.\n\n\n\"Clearly?\" Please tell us what Koresh was doing that can be construed as\nother than \"minding his own business\" before the BATF raided the place.\n\n\nYour logic just amazes me. I think your grandparents who died in\nAuschwitz would be turning over in their graves if they could hear how\ncavalierly you throw away people's protection of law because you think\nthey're \"scary\" and \"not the sort of person you'd want your daughter to\ndate.\" What sort of people do you suppose the Nazis thought your\ngrandparents were? Probably not the sort they'd want their little\nfrauleins dating...\n\n\nAnd next I suppose you'll tell us exactly WHO these \"well-trained killers\"\nhave killed?\n\n\nBecause you said so, right? Right.\n\n\nSo someone with a different background, say someone who didn't claim to be\nthe Messiah, in your book COULD shoot and kill Federal Law Enforcement\nofficials WOULD be a good citizen whose crusade enjoys our support?\n\n\nWorth the paper it's printed on.\n\nYou're amazing, simply amazing.", "\n First, a tank drove through the wall into the living room.\n\n I can't stop thinking about the children who were inside\n the house (the room?) at the time.\n\n How many people got killed during the Tiannamen Square events?\n\n\n\n-- \n------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDisclaimer: Opinions expressed are mine, not my employer's.", "\n\nOn the news from radio station KANU (Lawrence, KS) about 6:15 this Monday\nmorning, I heard someone with a nasal-sounding voice (supposedly the Waco\ncoroner?) claim that he had found TWO persons killed with a single shot\nto the forehead.\n--Myron.", "\n\nHow do you know? Were you there?\n\nWhile obviously Koresh was a nut case, the (typical) inability of the\ngovernment/media to get its story straight is quite disturbing. On\ntuesday night, NBC news reported that the FBI did not know the place\nwas burning down until they saw black smoke billowing from the\nbuilding. The next day, FBI agents were insisting that they saw Davidians\nsetting the fire. The FBI was also adamantly denying that it was possible\ntheir battery of the compound's wallks could have accidentally set the\nblaze, while also saying they hadnt been able to do much investigating\nof the site because it was still too hot. So how did they KNOW they\ndidnt accidentally set the fire.\n\nSounds like the FBI just burned the place to the ground to destroy\nevidence to me.\n\n", "]>>\n]>>> >napalm, then let the wood stove inside ignite it.\n]>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n]>>> As someone else has pointed out, why would the stove be in use on a warm day \n]>>> in Texas. \n]>>\n]>>Do YOU eat all your food cold?\n]>\n]>Ever hear of electric ovens or microwaves? Very popular.\n]>Electric stoves outside metro-areas especially.\n]\n]Ever hear about cutting off the electricity? That was done.\n]How effective is an electric stove then?\n\nDidn't the Branch Davidans have an emergency generator? Oh well, I don't think\nBrent thought of that anyway.\n\n", "A friend recorded CNN news during the gassing and incineration of\nthe BD's. I went through it carefully today, and found something\nvery interesting. A tank is pulling out of the house, and there\nis a fireball, maybe 24\" across that lasts for about 1 second.\nExactly ten minutes and thirty nine seconds later, the smoke starts\nbillowing out of that area of the building.\nNow, I'm no govt. spokestwinkie, so it might really have been a\nweather balloon or something. Perhaps someone would check it out\nand comment.\n\n", "\nI suppose it's too late now, but the repeated use of the word\n\"release\" is peculiar. Let's say you and your family are besieged\nin your home by some people with tanks, helicopters, and automatic\nweapons. They give you a break from the amplified sounds of dying\nrabbits to blare, \"You in there! Release the children, and they'll\nbe perfectly all right.\" Stipulate on top of that that you may not\nhave your epistemology entirely in order. Is it entirely surprising\nthat the Branch Davidians were reluctant to \"release\" their children\ninto FBI custody?", "Much of the dispute about the origin of the fire that destroyed the\nBD compound could be settled by examining the propane tank supposedly\ncrushed by one of the army tanks when they breached the walls of the\ncompound. If the the propane tank is flattened and has tread marks on it,\nthen the BD's version of the cause of the fire would seem to be\nverified.\n\n-- \nDave Feustel N9MYI ", "\n\nCNN just claimed he bought 104 \"semi-automatic assault rifles\". And\nthey say Koresh wasn't god-like... He managed to buy or build a\ncollection of fully-automatic semi-automatic rifles... Quite a feat,\nI would say. ;-)\n\nThey're still making charges of \"sexual abuse\" and such, or course.\nNobody seems to have noticed that the Treasury department has nothing\nto do with sex crimes. Or maybe the feds have recently instituted a\nTAX on sex crimes... Yeah, that's why the BATF was there, looking for\nunregistered *guns* (\"this is my weapon, this is my gun, this is for\nfighting, this is for...\").\n\n\nI also heard that they're claiming to be cautious because of Koresh's\n\"heated ammunition stockpile\". I seem to recall that smokeless powder\ntends to decompose at even moderate temperatures. I would be rather\nsurprised, after a fire of that nature, if *any* of his \"stockpile\" is\nunexploded, or unburned.\n\n\nI seem to recall that aluminum powder is a common component of\nfireworks... The folks on rec.pyro could probably tell you.\n\n\nI think *anything* is legal if you have the proper license. If he had\na \"curios and relics\" permit, I believe he could legally own\nhandgrenades to go with his launcher.\n\n--\nCharles Scripter * cescript@phy.mtu.edu\nDept of Physics, Michigan Tech, Houghton, MI 49931", "\nA search for illegally held weapons (IF there were any, no evidence yet\nproduced to this effect) does not justify firing into a house with\nwomen and children, either. It also does not justify shooting first\nwithout identifying oneself (the ATF and FBI have done this before, so\ndon't say they haven't, please) or producing a warrant.\n\nGuess it depends on whose story one believes, huh?\n\n\nWhich \"others\" are we talking about here?\n\n\n\"Sub lethal\"? Excuse me, but those people are dead!!!\n\n\nEvidence? So far the FBI has produced none. Don't hold your breath.\n\n\nOnly a few of those being held in chains and s(hackles are wanted . \nThe rest are being held for the crime of being \"material witnesses\".\n\n\nIt was not the Feds decision to make, but the firefighters.\n\n\nThis is true of ANY answer to a call for help from a fire department by\nANY citizen. Since fire departments do answer calls that \"deprive \nresources that might be needed elsewhere\" it is not a valid reason for\nnot calling them.\n\nFurther, since the Davidians had not been found guilty of any crime in\na court of law, they are subject to the same protection as any other\ncitizen. And las far as I know, even criminals in prison are not left to \nburn to death in a fire.\n\n\nI guess this is a matter of religious faith with you? The government\nsays it, so it must be so? Or haven't you been reading this thread well \nenough to notice that some of us here don't beleive their story?\n\n\nPatients in psychiatric hospitals are not left to die in fires, either.\nBesides, as I explained, some of us here believe their distress might\nhave been genuine. Are you SO certain it wasn't?\n\n\nThere is no evidence that the Davidians committed human sacrifice \neither before of after the initial raid. And self-defense is not\nmurder.\n\n\nHe did not say it was deliberate. Accidents do not require conspiracy\ntheories, only wanton disregard for human life. The initial raid alone\n(agents firing blind into walls against all standards of law enforce-\nment procedure) proves they did not mind killing people.\n\n\nNo one here is \"supporting Koresh\". We are opposing the illegal use of\nexcessive violence by our government against our citizens. That is all.\n\n\nA society that believes it is OK to terrorize people for their religious\nviews will destroy itself in due time. It is the feds who disrupted the\n\"fabric of society\" in Waco, not Koresh. It is the feds who forced a\nnightmare onto the people of Mount Carmel.\n\n\nOn what basis do you assume we haven't? Don't you really mean\n\"It would be a good thing if people drew the same conclusions from\nhistory that I do?\" :-)\n\n\n\"Militant\" implies acts of aggression against one's neighbors. The\nDavidians left their neighbors alone.\n\n.religious heretics who left to set up such a community\n\nSo what? The Mormons were considered a \"cult\" for years, and were chased\nout of one place after another on much the same thinking as you are\nadvocating. When they finally got to \"set up a community\" they left\npeople alone. So far Americans haven't been put to the sword by Mormon\nhordes crying to avenge Joseph Smith. :-)\n\n\nIt doesn't mean they won't either. Anyway, the whole purpose of a \nsystem of laws is to punish people for what they DO, not what they\nMIGHT do. \n\n\n\"Telling\" is not the same as \"forcing\". When the police knock at my\ndoor, I cannot make them go away by changing the channeI. As for Pat\nand friends, I don't even WATCH their channel, since I am an atheist.\nSo far, not watching them tell me what to do hasn't gotten me killed :-)\n\n\nRight now, the only people sticking guns in anyone's faces is the \ngovernment. And they are trying very hard to run my life. Or \nhaven't you noticed?\n\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------", "\nWhat ever happened to the 'Adobe Fortress' I kept hearing about? I\nthought this was a 'Cult Stronghold'! If the kgbatf knew it was a\ntinderbox, why didn't they just have all the talking heads line up\nand start huffin' and puffin?", "\n As you're no doubt aware, Phill, there are probably five or six\ndifferent, mutually contradictory versions of the events in Waco on\nFeb. 28 all of which are from reputable news sources, ranging the the \nAssociated Press to TIME to Newsweek.\n\n Some of the earliest reports issued by the AP were not at all\nflattering the to BATF, and produced some question as to who fired first.\n\n Now, for all I know, you were there to witness it. But\nI kind of doubt that.\n\n\n The BATF, in a letter they've been sending out to people,\nsays both that they were ambushed because they lost the element of\nsurprise, and that they went up and knocked on the door and had it\nslammed in their faces.\n\n It strikes *me* as kind of strange to rely on surprise to\nserve a warrant by knocking on the door.\n\n There are at least questions that need to be answered.\n\n\n This paranoid assertation was made by witnesses to the original\nassault who stated that the BATF initiated hostilities by throwing\nconcussion grenades and reported by the Associated Press.\n\n\n Phill, the BATF were in a firefight with the BD for *forty-five*\nminutes. I find it hard to believe that if they were expecting peaceful\ncitizens they *wouldn't* have shown up in live-stock trailers and would\nhave retreated immediately.\n\n If they *were* expecting peacful citizens, why show up with over\na hundred officers, some of which clearly visible on video to be carrying \nsub-machineguns, and *3* National Guard Helicopters?\n\n I don't know who did what, but, as I said, there are questions that \nneed to be answered.\n\n\n", "Ken Arromdee writes\n\n\n\nYes, but tell me how you think your question answers my question. If\nthe BDs didn't know immediately that they were dealing with feds\n(uniform apparel, insignia), they must have figured it out in pretty\nshort order. Why did they keep fighting? They seemed awfully ready\nfor having been attacked \"without warning\". \n", "\nIn this case, it was unimportant as to who set the fire. The Davidians\nwould have burned no matter what, ESPECIALLY if the BATF/FBI set the\nfire as this would make the beseiged martyrs to Vernon Howell and\ntherefore rocket to heaven. A few comments from the remaining\nDavidians scattered throughout the country seemed to confirm this\ntheory (One cult member said that she wished that she had been there,\nand that now she would have to wait for Vernon to Return for them. She\nactually seemed upset that she did not burn with them).\n\nWhile I think that Vernon started the fire (his followers anyway), \nit is incidental to their reaction.\n", "From article <1r0mhtINNa59@cronkite.Central.Sun.COM>, by dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard):\n\nI noticed that too. Special agent (asshole actually) Ricks stated that\nDavid Koresh had \"explosives that could blow up an armored vehicle 40\nfeet into the air.\" It looked like to me that the BDs had plenty of\nopportunity to use these explosives---provided that they had them in the\nfirst place. For example, when one of the tanks was injecting CS gas\ninto the ranch house (yes ranch house; the BDs weren't living in a\nfortress) they could have easily destroyed or disabled that tank because\nit was idling there for a considerable length of time. So, why didn't\nthey do this? Could it be that they didn't have any explosives or\nsimilar munitions? I just don't buy what the ATF and FBI have been\nsaying. Hopefully, the truth will come out.\n\nHere's something noteworthy: after the fire had been burning for some\ntime an explosion occurred---just *one* explosion. The media said that\nthis was some of the explosives that the BDs posessed going off. I\ndon't think this was the case. My brother and I noticed that this\nso-called \"explosion\" resembled a plume of propane gas being ignited.\nWe figure that this is what it was because of how the \"explosion\"\nlooked and sounded. Obviously, it wasn't due to something like TNT,\ndynamite, or C4. I have seen a propane explosion before...the explosion\nin the ranch house greatly resembled this. Also, I noticed something\nthat looked like a propane tank in the charred ruble the next day.\n\nIsn't it curious that the ATF wasn't very forthcoming about how the four\nofficers got killed? Many weeks had gone by before they stated that\nsome of the officers had been killed and/or wounded by grenades thrown\nby the BDs. Earlier, when someone asked one of the spokespersons about\nwhether or not an autopsy had been performed on the slain agents, they\nsaid that an autopsy had been done but THEY WEREN'T READY TO RELEASE\nTHE FINDINGS. Now why is this? Does the ATF have something to hide?\nPerhaps those four agents were killed by friendly fire. What is the\ncause of death exactly? NO ONE HAS EVER SAID WHAT IT IS.\n\nWhat is certain is this: ATF agents *did* throw grenades into the\ncompound. As a matter of fact, Mr. Koresh handed his lawyer a grenade\nbody during one of the lawyer's visits to the compound. Later on\nthe lawyer gave the grenade body (I don't know if it was a dud or a\nspent one btw) to the ATF. How much do you want to bet that this\ngrenade will mysteriously disappear? At this point in time the only\npeople we know who had grenades was the ATF agents. Wouldn't it be\na shocker if the no one ever found any evidence of grenades, rockets,\nor explosives in the rubble? The ATF would sure have egg on their\nface then. Note that the ATF is doing the *initial* sweep of the\nrubble. The FBI and the Texas Rangers won't investigate until the\nATF is done. This looks like a perfect opportunity for the ATF to\nmake sure that others \"find\" what they want for them to \"find\" if\nyou know what I mean. I'm probably being a little paranoid here\nbut if I am I have could reason to be. Recall that several weeks\nhad gone by before anyone said that the BDs had used grenades.\nAlso recall that early on the ATF had *denied* that their agents\nused grenades on the BDs. Someone is lying here.\n\n\nScott Kennedy, Brewer and Patriot", "A few comments on the ATF's botched handling of this case:\n\n1. Attempting to storm the compound in broad daylight? The explanation\n we were given (at least at one point) was that they thought the cult\n members would be at religious services. My only comment on this bit\n of idiocy is that if you're going to operate as a quasi-military unit,\n you'd better understand basic military tactics. One cardinal rule\n is that only a fool plans an operation where if one assumption is\n incorrect, the operation will fail disastrously.\n\n2. We were told that ATF got four agents killed because they were\n outgunned, they didn't expect such heavy resistance. When\n questioned about why such an overwhelming military-style assault\n was planned, we were told that it was because the cultists were\n thought to be heavily armed. Can you say contradictory? I knew\n you could!\n\n3. The BATF has had a bad reputation for years as a bunch of arrogant,\n hotdoggers. I was talking to relatives a couple of weeks ago and\n referred to them as a bunch of Crockett and Tubbs wannabes. I'm\n more than ever convinced that's right on target. An anecdote not\n related to the Waco fiasco is that apparently the BATF screwed up\n some of the evidence in the World Trade Center bombing. There's\n now an excellent chance some of the forensic evidence gathered by\n the FBI will not be admissible in court. This is not hearsay. I\n was told this by a relative of my wife's who happens to be an FBI\n agent. His opinion of the BATF was, ummm, well, let's just say\n uncomplimentary.\n\n4. I have *still* not been presented with one iota of evidence that\n the BD's had *any* of the alleged illegal weaponry which was the\n reason for the raid in the first place. BTW, we're *still* hearing\n this justification. AG Reno, on CNN yesterday, made references\n to this issue, without any substantiation. She also waved around\n the \"He's a child abuser and we heard he was beating the children!\"\n flag. Sigh.\n\n5. A point re the Feds in general: their handling of the whole siege\n reflected a complete lack of understanding of the probable thought\n processes of the cultists. AG Reno said they pushed the button\n because they were afraid a mass suicide was in the offing. My\n only comment on that is that if the cultists were that close to\n the edge, what the hell did she think their reaction would be to\n an hours-long assault on the compound where holes were punched in\n the walls and CS gas pumped in? If I were a BD, I'd expect the\n forces of the godless government to assault me at any time. In\n that light, whether they torched themselves or drank Jim Jones\n Kool-Aid is irrelevant. Also, look at how the siege was conducted:\n Bright lights, loud rock music, cutting off communications and\n other contact with the outside. All measures designed to make the\n BD's feel more and more isolated and threatened. This might have\n been a great strategy - if they were dealing with criminals. As it\n was, it looks to me like everything they did fed into Koresh's\n paranoid delusions.\n\n\n\n\n-- \n\n#include ", "...\n\n\tYou can tell, folks, when the man has run out of reason:\n\tattack the man's beliefs (in legal terminology, argument\n\tad hominem: attack the man, not what he did that has yet to\n\tbe proven illegal)>\n\n\n\n\tWRONGo. Remember the fire movie a couple of years ago?\n\t\"Backdraft\"? The scene in the factory with propane gas\n\tcoming out of pipes and gasoline all over the floor,\n\twith a 750 degree flame front overhead?\n\n\t\tNote that it did not flash all at once?\n\n\tFires ignite and burn unpredictably.\n\tGases (like tear gas) mix and distribute unevenly.\n\t\tAnd flash unevenly.\n\n\tYou are not a fire analyst. You cannnot tell.\n\t\t(NB: Neither am I. And I cannot tell\n\t\tNor is the FBI spokesman\n\t\tNor is Reno\n\t\tMaybe we all should shut up and get a\n\t\t\tforensics analysis first.\n\n\n\tYes,. there was a flash: in one room, just pumped full of it.,\n", "I do not think it is at all unlikely that Clinton ro his policy\nwonk facilitators arranged the Waco raid as a display piece for the\nGun War on the Constitution. Look at what the Bush administration did to\nget material for the Drug War on the Constitution--remember that baggie of\ncrack George waved at the cameras? They took a dealer from the ghetto\nand brought him to the White House so they could say drugs had been\ndealt onb the White House Lawn.\nAnd I don't think anybody could honestly think Clinton would have any\nmoral qualms about the raid...\nThe only really worrisome thing is that the BD's heroic defense of\ntheir ranch will make Clinton's Gun War on the Constitution _more_\nsuccessfull--exactly as he wanted. The media and politicians will\nfilter this so that the general public will think the BD's\nare bad guys! Don't help them. Stand up for the BD's with your\nfriends and family adnd in public anytime you can--their supposed\nmoral qualms are not important to the issue. They are heroes in the\nfight against oppressive government; it could just as well have been\nyou.\n-watkins@earth.eecs.uic.edu (Brian E Watkins)\n", "\n\nEven if it were a capital offense, the warrant was not even an arrest warrant,\nbut a search warrant. In other words, there was no evidence of illegal\narms, just enough of a suggestion to get a judge to sign a license to\nsearch for illegal evidence.", "I predict that the outcome of the study of what went wrong with the\nFederal Assault in Waco will result in future assaults of that type\nbeing conducted as full-scale military operations with explicit\nshoot-to-kill directives.\n-- \nDave Feustel N9MYI ", "\n\nFor those of you still unsure whether this is satire, the jury is still out:\n\n \"Also yesterday, even though the compound no longer exists, the\n US attorney's office here released formerly sealed documents,\n including a search warrant and related affidavits, that authorities\n planned to use when the siege was over.\n\n \"These documents did not include the original warrants the Bureau of\n Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms had in late February, which to this\n day have never been released.\n\n \"...one of the documents indicated the agency planned to seek\n samples of Koresh's handwriting not only to verify that he had\n signed for some gun purchases, but also that he espoused\n 'certain doctrines hostile to law enforcement and particularly\n the ATF.'\"\n\nSo, one of the charges against Koresh seems to be Contempt of Cop -- he\nexpressed hostility to the BATF. That chilly feeling in your gonads is \nperfectly normal, folks... it should go away in about 51 days.\n\n The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog.\n ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ\n abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz\n\nThat should save them the trouble of subpoena-ing samples. Heavens knows \nI want to cooperate fully, meinherren.\n-- ", "\nPlease tell me what you think would have happened had the people \ncome out with their hands up several weeks ago.\n\n\nMore than someone who would not release children from the compound.\n\nI.e., more than David Koresh/Vernon Howell/\"Jesus Christ\".\nI saw lengthy excerpts from an Australian documentary made in \n1992 that clearly showed that this was a cult.\n\nI am not pleased with the BATF handling of the affair. I think they \nbungled it badly from the start. But I don't think they are \nresponsible for the fire, which started in two different places.\n\n\n", "A really sad op-ed appeared in my school's newpaper today. It\nclaimed that full-auto weapons are illegal in the U.S.\nI understand that full-auto weapons made and registered before\nMay 19, 1986 are still legal in 40 of the 50 states. Is\nTexas one of those states?\n\nCan anyone point me to a source for info on how many people have been \nkilled by legal full-auto weapons in the U.S.?\n\nAnd finally, I think it would be great if anyone was keeping a digest\nof facts on the Waco incident. In particular, I would like a source\nfor the FBI/BATF mentioning the supposed methamphetamine lab, and\ninformation on the beginning of the raid, specifically BATF\nlies.\n\nI am also interested in past BATF no-knock warrents which have lead\nto personal and property damage against innocent citizens.\n\nI intend to put together a reply to this op-ed very soon. The author\nof the piece states he wants to work for the BATF. gack! ", "\n\nBecause the Gun loonies were firing on vehicles with 50mm amunition that\nhas a range of 3000 meters.\n\nNext question.\n\n\nThe problem is of course the laws that allow a bunch of raving nutters\nto collect a huge stack of arms in the first place.\n\nThe sequence of events meant that there really was no option but to\nattempt some sort of breakthrough via an intervention. If the FBI had\nhad the stomach for it they could have mounted a commando type\nraid and attempted to save the children by shooting all the adults.\nIt really was a no win situation. Koresh had plenty of opportunity \nto give up and stand trial for the murder of the 4 ATF officers. Instead\nhe ordered the murder of the children.\n\n\nIn order to reject the word of the FBI and BATF it is neccessary to beleive\nthe words of a man who has just murdered 17 children and ordered the \nsuicide/murder of his other 80 followers. According to the account given\nthe BATF attempted to serve a warrant upon Koresh at the ranch and were met\nby gunfire in a deliberate attempt to murder them. The Koresh/gun supporter\nclaim that the BATF started shooting simply does not stand up. If the \nAFT had gone there to start shooting they would have gone with heavier\ngrade weaponry than standard issue handguns. For all practical purposes\nthey were unarmed, the B-D followers had automatic weapons.\n\n\nThe B-D seige could not be allowed to go on indefinitely. The B-D were\nquite capable of commiting mass suicide and murdering the children at any\ntime. A commando assault was the only other likely action that could have\nachieved that objective, that would have been very risky, orders of \nmagintude harder than Antebbe or the Iranian Embassy Seige. Airplanes\nand Embassies are not designed for defense against attack ranch \napocalypse was. 6 terrorists are far easier to disloge without casualties\nthan 80.\n\nAllowing the siege to go on was not an option either, besides the serious\nrisk that Koresh would proclaim armageddon at any moment there was the \nquestion of the difficulties of keeping the emmergency team on standby over\na prolonged period. The longer the siege went on the more mentally prepared\nKoresh and his followers would be for a prolonged siege. Rather than go\nin prematurely the mistake was probably to go in too soon.\n\n\nCan you think of a better way of getting the children out?\n\nA 100% certain way?\n\n\nThe people who do not want gun control must obviously discount the entire\ngovernment story. This is simply rationalisation. It is not enough for \nthem to simply dismiss the government as incompetent. That would require\nthem to come up with a solution themselves. Instead they have to come\nup with a government conspiracy theory whereby the government decided to\nset out to murder 80 people just to set up some sort of scare to alow them\nto get gun control legislation through.\n\nThis conspiracy theory assumes that the BATF deliberately got 4 of its\nagents killed and that the FBI etc actually enjoy sitting out in the\nmiddle of Texas being shot at by religious nutters.\n\nStill the conspiracy theory is comforting, it allows them to pretend that\nWACO proves nothing except about how incompetent the government is in \nresolving a hostage crisis. No govt in the world has ever faced a \ncomparable situation, quite probably there was no manner in which it\ncould be peacefully resolved. The blame does not rest on the FBI, it\nrests on the fact that Koresh was allowed to get so far, in particular\nthe person who tipped the B-D off in advance has the murder of 4 ATF\nagents and 17 children on his or her conscience.\n\n\nThere are a large number of people in the US who predict the end of society\npreach salvation through armed security. The fact is that these are the\nvery people who pose the threat to society in the first place. The next WACO\nmay not be religious nutters but a political movement. A splinter group\nof the Klu Klux Klan taking over a schoolhouse in a black area for example\nand holding several hundred children hostage.\n\nThe only possible solution to such situations that can work is to prevent\nthem arising. No other government in the world has faced such a situation. \nthis is because no other government has so carelessly allowed high power\nweaponry to become avaliable to any little Hitler or would be Messiah\nto set themselves up as dictator in their own little empire.\n", "16. What is the condition of the propane tank mentioned by the BD\nsurvivors? I.e. is it crushed and does it have tread marks on it?\n-- \nDave Feustel N9MYI ", "Here is a press release from the American Federation of State, \nCounty and Municipal Employees.\n\n Unions Point To Deadly Workplaces; AFSCME, Other Unions\nCommemorate Workers Memorial Day\n To: National Desk, Labor Writer\n Contact: Janet Rivera of the American Federation of State, County\nand Municipal Employees, AFL-CIO, 202-429-1130\n\n WASHINGTON, April 23 -- The American Federation of State, \nCounty and Municipal Employees (AFSCME) and other unions\nof the AFL-CIO on Wednesday, April 28, will commemorate the fifth\nannual Workers Memorial Day -- a day to pay homage to the 6\nmillion workers who are killed, injured, or diseased on the job.\n This year, AFSCME will focus its Workers Memorial Day efforts an\nthe dangerous environment in which corrections officers must work.\nEarlier this month, an AFSCME corrections officer, Robert\nVallandingham, was killed by inmates who overtook the corrections\nfacility in Lucasville, Ohio.\n The law and order agenda of the 1980s has resulted in a steady\nincrease in the prison population for the past five years. On\nJn. 1, 1992, the prison population was 709,587. Projections\nshow a continued increase in the number of inmates, with an\nexpected prison population of 811,253 in 1994.\n The conditions which this burgeoning prison population has\ncreated for corrections officers is partially reflected in the\nnumber of assaults by inmates against staff. Assaults against\nstaff increased dramatically between 1987 and 1989, and remain\nhigh. In 1987, there were 808 assaults by inmates against staff,\ncompared to 9,961 such assaults in 1991.\n The increased number of inmates has brought on the dangerous\ncombination of overcrowding and understaffing. For example in Ohio\nofficer-to-inmate ratio is 1 to 8.4 -- the second worst ratio in\nthe nation. The national average is 1 to 5.3. Other health and\nsafety issues facing corrections officers include AIDS, Hepatitis\nB, tuberculosis, stress, and chemical hazards.\n AFSCME has more than 50,000 members who work in the nation's\nfederal, state and local correctional facilities.\n Correction officers are not alone in performing their jobs under\nlife-threatening conditions. Every year, 10,000 American workers\ndie from job-related injuries, and tens of thousands more die from\noccupational disease. Public employees do some of the nation's\nmost dangerous jobs. Perilous occupations include:\n\n -- Highway Workers - Highway workers are often injured and\n frequently killed by moving traffic because work zones are\n not barricaded or don't have proper lighting.\n -- Health Care Workers - Hospitals have the highest number of\n job-related injuries and illnesses of any private sector\n employer and nursing homes ranked fifth. There were more\n than 325,000 job-related illnesses and injuries in private\n sector hospitals in 1991, up almost 10 percent over the\n previous year. It is generally believed that health care\n workers employed at public sector hospitals and nursing homes\n have a significantly higher rate of injuries and illnesses\n than do their private sector counterparts. Health and safety\n issues facing health care workers include exposure to\n tuberculosis and the HIV virus, back injuries, and high\n levels of stress.\n -- Social Workers - Social workers who work in mental health\n institutions are often the victims of assaults and,\n sometimes, fatal attacks. For instance, last October, a man\n carrying a semiautomatic handgun walked into the Schuyler\n County Social Services Building in Watkins Glenn, N.Y.\n and fatally shot social services workers, before turning the\n gun on himself. There are two basic problems. First is a\n growing lack of support services for people who don't have\n the help they need. Because workers are overworked, some\n clients are not given the adequate amount of counselling.\n Such conditions may cause clients to become more frustrated.\n The \"quality\" of the clients is also becoming more violent,\n as more are moved out of the institutions.\n\n Nearly 2 million workers have been killed by workplace hazards\nsince OSHA was passed. Moreover, as AFSCME President Gerald W.\nMcEntee explains, OSHA does not provide workplace safety\nprotections for public employees.\n \"More than 1,600 public employees are killed each year on the\njob, yet 27 states still provide no federally-approved OSHA\ncoverage for public employees,\" said McEntee. \"This, despite the\nfact that public employees -- highway workers, health care workers,\ncorrections officers, to name but a few -- do some of the most\ndangerous work in our society. This year we are fighting for\npassage of OSHA reform legislation to give all workers greater\nrights and protections, and finally guarantee all public employees\nsafe workplaces. We need the public support to be successful.\"\n Government workers suffer 25 percent more injuries than private\nsector workers, and these injuries are almost 75 percent more\nsevere.\n Public employees were exempted from OSHA when the law was passed\nin 1970 and today, public employees in more than half the states\nhave no OSHA coverage.\n -30-", "time\n\nNo, Lt Calley was later acquitted. His troops killed 400-500\npeople, including kids, elderly and women... I sure don't want\nto see the domestic law enforcement agencies in this country\nadhere to those \"military standards\"... If they did, we're\nall in big trouble...(The My Lai massacre was covered up\nby high-ranking officials and ALL who were involved were\nACQUITTED).\n\n == Minh ==", "Deletions...\n\nCorrection. I think it was 1978. Also, contrary to earlier belief, it\nis now widely accepted that not all committed suicide, but were actually\nkilled. In the end, they did die for a lie, but some not out of\nconviction alone. Thought I try to make this point clear.\n-- ", "The ATF agent interviewed on \"Street Stories\" reported that the raid was\nill planned, and went ahead even when they (the BD's) knew the ATF was \ncoming. WHY?\n\nI believe this raid was ill planned because they only had 2 days to plan it,\nand it was continued when failure was obvious because it had a bit part\nin the much larger political agenda of President Clinton. I would even \nsuggest that the loss of 4 ATF agents is inconsequential in this the\ncontext of his political agenda. It MIGHT even be beneficial to his agenda, \nas it helps point up just how evil these assualt weapons are. Further proof\nmight be that the ATF denied their agents (Street Stories report) requests\nfor sufficient fire power. \n\nImportant dates: \nFeb 25th - NJ assembly votes to overturn assault weapon ban.\nFeb 28th - Compound in Waco attacked.\t \n\nOn Feb. 25th the New Jersey assembly voted to overturn the assault weapon\nban in that state. It looked like it might be a tight vote, but the Senate\nin N.J. was going to vote to overturn the ban. It would not sit well to have\nan Eastern state overturn an assault weapon ban, given Clintons stated\nagenda on gun control. I suspect Clinton gave the order to get someone or some\ngroup with assualt weapons and have the press present (they were initially\nat the incident in Waco) to record the event for the TV audience. The agent \non \"Street Stories\" reported that a supervisor was urging them all to \"get \nready fast\", as \"they know we are coming\". I believe this attack continued, \neven tho the probablility of failure was high, because it came from the top \ndown. After the N.J. assembly vote, the ATF had a limited amount of time to\ncome up with something, and the Wackos in Waco fit the bill nicely.", "\n\nHm. A previous poster argued that the fact that the BD's did not rush to\nescape the burning building indicated that it was they, and not any of the\ngovernment actions, that started the fire. On the other hand, I wonder if,\nwith a face full of \"massive amounts of CS,\" *I* would be able to escape\na burning tinder-box like that ranch house assuming my best efforts.\n-- ", "Good points. In addition, I would point out that now is one of the\nbest times to fight this political battle, with much of the opposition\nin disarray -- an FBI director (Sessions) on his way out, an Attorney\nGeneral (Reno) who has only been in long enough to find the office coffee\nmachine two tries out of three (and, between slow confirmations and\nClinton's Saturday Night Massacre, hasn't much of a staff in place).\nIf we really get lucky, both of the above will be too busy trying to\nkeep their feet from being held to the Waco fire to spend much effort\ninsisting on their alleged right to spy on the American people.", "\nGo to hell. I'm no \"government [-] following fanatic.\" Your sweeping\ngeneralizations evince your own ignorance. What were they supposed to do?\nJust let him be? Fuck him. Fuck the ATF, too. They should've done it right\nthe first time.", "(st) Stephen Tice \n(km) Ken McVay\n\n\n(st)Seems to me Koresh is yet another messenger that got killed\n(st)for the message he carried. (Which says nothing about the \n\n(km)Seems to be, barring evidence to the contrary, that Koresh was simply\n(km)another deranged fanatic who thought it neccessary to take a whole bunch of\n(km)folks with him, children and all, to satisfy his delusional mania. Jim\n(km)Jones, circa 1993.\n\nI think there's plenty of evidence to the contrary - six \"rescued\"\nDavidians consistantly recounted that the Federal tank knocked over a barrel\nof propane. These guys haven't exactly been spending time together,\nplotting an elaborate and consistent story. It would be contradictory\nfor Koresh to go for \"mass suicide\" - remember that Koresh's death was\nthe opening of the sixth seal - the signal that Armageddon had begun.\nHis army (the people in the compound) would then fight the powers of\nevil and win, ending in the Rapture. The fire wiped out his army. I\nread earlier that Koresh was planning to walk out of the compound \nand blow himself up with a grenade - that would jibe better with\nhis teachings.\n\n(st)In the mean time, we sure learned a lot about evil and corruption.\n(st)Are you surprised things have gotten that rotten?\n\n(km)Nope - fruitcakes like Koresh have been demonstrating such evil corruption\n(km)for centuries.\n\nI'd think you'd be the last one to support gassing people and \nburning them to death for their religious beliefs. Corrupt? Evil?\nI don't know. We'll never know. And when you start calling people \nfruitcakes about their religious beliefs, that's dehumanizing people.\nWe saw what happened when many Germans started believing that Jews\nwere subhuman.\n\nIn one neat stroke, they destroyed all the evidence that could have \npointed to wrongdoing. And killed all the witnesses, including 12\nchildren whose last view of life was choking and pain, followed by\nburning them alive.\n\nI am extremely saddened that this tragedy occurred. I'm furious that\nthey used my money to do it. ", "oldham@ces.cwru.edu (Daniel Oldham) babbles:\n\nWhat happened in Waco is not the fault of the BATF. If they would of\nhad the proper equipment and personal then they could of captured the\ncompound on the initial assault and none of this would of happened.\n\n\tIf they'd gone to the door and knocked on it to serve the\n\twarrant, like the Sheriff had done 3 other times, they\n\twouldn't have needed to HAVE an initial assault. But then,\n\tHerr Klinton and Attorney Gen'l Reno wouldn't have been\n\table to have told such heroic stories about how they\n\t\"protected\" the rest of us from a group of people who\n\tkept to themselves, miles out in the prairie.\n\nThe BATF needs more people, better weapons and more armored\ntransports. When they meet hostile fire they should be able to use\nmore force instead of retreating to a stand off. If you are going to\ndo a job then do it right. The BATF is there to protect us and they\nmust have the proper equipment and people to do the job.\n\n\tThe BATF needs to be disbanded. This out of control group\n\tof Rambo wannabees is a danger to the Republic.\n\nWith the WoD and the increased crime in the streets the BATF is needed\nmore now then ever. If they blast away a few good fokes then that is\nthe price we all have to pay for law and order in this country.\n\n\tWell, I figure you're going to get flamed pretty badly by\n\teverybody else for this incredibly stupid statement, so I'll\n\tjust let it pass for now.\n\n\tCase Western reserve, huh? Do the Feds know about that big \n\tstockpile of automatic weapons and crack you have in your\n\thouse? Are you the same Daniel Oldham that lives on Orchard\n\tDrive? Just so they get the address right, that is...\n\nLook\nat all the good people that died in wars to protect this great country\nof ours.\n\n\tWell, it used to be a great country. Now I'm not so sure. \n\tI knew a few of those good people who died in wars; I was\n\tin Viet Nam. I can assure you, none of us fought to protect\n\tthe right of the government to attack its own citizens with\n\tmilitary force without provocation. (Hint: serving a search warrant\n\tis NOT sufficient provocation to stage a military style assault\n\ton a religious group. At Least not here in the US. Maybe in\n\tIraq, or Syria...)\n\nWith the arms build up in Waco they needed to hit that compound with\nmega fire power. They could of gone in there blasting and killed a few\nwomen and kids but it would of been better then letting them all burn\nto death 51 days later.", "Has anybody heard an explanation of why the FBI was using tear gas\nin a 35 mph wind?\n\nDoesn't seem like vry good tactics to me ...\n\nAny other explanations?\n\nLew", "\nAccording to CNN last night (Saturday 4/24/93) he has now found bullets\nin two of the corpses, in the head (that would indicate that the bullets\nwere aimed at killing the humans).\n\nCheers,\nKent", "Here is a press release from the White House.\n\n President Clinton's Remarks On Waco With Q/A\n To: National Desk\n Contact: White House Office of the Press Secretary, 202-456-2100\n\n WASHINGTON, April 20 -- Following are remarks by President \nClinton in a question and answer session with the press:\n\n1:36 P.M. EDT\n\n THE PRESIDENT: On February the 28th, four federal\nagents were killed in the line of duty trying to enforce the law\nagainst the Branch Davidian compound, which had illegally stockpiled\nweaponry and ammunition, and placed innocent children at risk.\nBecause the BATF operation had failed to meet its objective, a 51-day\nstandoff ensued.\n\n The Federal Bureau of Investigation then made every\nreasonable effort to bring this perilous situation to an end without\nbloodshed and further loss of life. The Bureau's efforts were\nultimately unavailing because the individual with whom they were\ndealing, David Koresh, was dangerous, irrational, and probably\ninsane.\n\n He engaged in numerous activities which violated both\nfederal law and common standards of decency. He was, moreover,\nresponsible for the deaths and injuries which occurred during the\naction against the compound in February. Given his inclination\ntowards violence and in an effort to protect his young hostages, no\nprovocative actions were taken for more than seven weeks by federal\nagents against the compound.\n\n This weekend I was briefed by Attorney General Reno on\nan operation prepared by the FBI, designed to increase pressure on\nKoresh and persuade those in the compound to surrender peacefully.\nThe plan included a decision to withhold the use of ammunition, even\nin the face of fire, and instead to use tear gas that would not cause\npermanent harm to health, but would, it was hoped, force the people\nin the compound to come outside and to surrender.\n\n I was informed of the plan to end the siege. I\ndiscussed it with Attorney General Reno. I asked the questions I\nthought it was appropriate for me to ask. I then told her to do what\nshe thought was right, and I take full responsibility for the\nimplementation of the decision.\n\n Yesterday's action ended in a horrible human tragedy.\nMr. Koresh's response to the demands for his surrender by federal\nagents was to destroy himself and murder the children who were his\ncaptives, as well as all the other people who were there who did not\nsurvive. He killed those he controlled, and he bears ultimate\nresponsibility for the carnage that ensued.\n\n Now we must review the past with an eye towards the\nfuture. I have directed the United Stated Departments of Justice and\nTreasury to undertake a vigorous and thorough investigation to\nuncover what happened and why, and whether anything could have been\ndne differently. I have told the departments to involve independent\nprofessional law enforcement officials in the investigation. I\nexpect to receive analysis and answers in whatever time is required\nto complete the review. Finally, I have directed the departments to\ncooperate fully with all congressional inquiries so that we can\ncontinue to be fully accountable to the American people.\n\n I want to express my appreciation to the Attorney\nGeneral, to the Justice Department, and to the federal agents on the\nfront lines who did the best job they could under deeply difficult\ncircumstances.\n\n Again, I want to say as I did yesterday, I am very sorry\nfor the loss of life which occurred at the beginning and at the end\nof this tragedy in Waco. I hope very much that others who will be\ntempted to join cults and to become involved with people like David\nKoresh will be deterred by the horrible scenes they have seen over\nthe last seven weeks. And I hope very much that the difficult\nsituations which federal agents confronted there and which they will\nbe doubtless required to confront in other contexts in the future\nwill be somewhat better handled and better understood because of what\nhas been learned now.\n\n Q Mr. President, can you, first of all, tell us why,\nafter 51 days, you decided --\n\n Q Mr. President, can you describe for us what it is\nthat Janet Reno outlined to you in your 15-minute phone conversation\nwith --\n\n THE PRESIDENT: I can't hear you both. If one will go\nfirst and then the other.\n\n Q Sorry. Can you describe what Janet Reno --\n\n Q Mr. President --\n\n THE PRESIDENT: I'll answer both your questions, but I\ncan't do it at once.\n\n Q Can you describe what she told you on Sunday about\nthe nature of the operation and how much detail you knew about it?\n\n THE PRESIDENT: Yes. I was told by the Attorney General\nthat the FBI strongly felt that the time had come to take another\nstep in trying to dislodge the people in the compound. And she\ndescribed generally what the operation would be -- that they wanted\nto go in and use tear gas which had been tested not to cause\npermanent damage to adults or to children, but which would make it\nvery difficult for people to stay inside the building. And it was\nhoped that the tear gas would permit them to come outside.\n\n I was further told that under no circumstances would our\npeople fire any shots at them even if fired upon. They were going to\nshoot the tear gas from armored vehicles which would protect them and\nthere would be no exchange of fire. In fact, as you know, an awful\nlot of shots were fired by the cult members at the federal officials.\nThere were no shots coming back from the government side.\n\n I asked a number of questions. The first question I\nasked is, why now? We have waited seven weeks; why now? The reasons\nI was given were the following:\n\n Number one, that there was a limit to how long the\nfederal authorities could maintain with their limited resources the\nquality and intensity of coverage by experts there. They might be\nneeded in other parts of the country.\n\n Number two, that the people who had reviewed this had\nnever seen a case quite like this one before, and they were convinced\nthat no progress had been made recently and no progress was going to\nbe made through the normal means of getting Koresh and the other cult\nmembers to come out.\n\n Number three, that the danger of their doing something\nto themselves or to others was likely to increase, not decrease, with\nthe passage of time.\n\n And number four, that they had reason to believe that\nthe children who were still inside the compound were being abused\nsignificantly, as well as being forced to live in unsanitary and\nunsafe conditions.\n\n So for those reasons, they wanted to move at that time.\nThe second question I asked the Attorney General is whether they had\ngiven consideration to all of the things that could go wrong and\nevaluated them against what might happen that was good. She said\nthat the FBI personnel on the scene and those working with them were\nconvinced that the chances of bad things happening would only\nincrease with the passage of time.\n\n The third question I asked was, has the military been\nconsulted? As soon as the initial tragedy came to light in Waco,\nthat's the first thing I asked to be done, because it was obvious\nthat this was not a typical law enforcement situation. Military\npeople were then brought in, helped to analyze the situation and some\nof the problems that were presented by it. And so I asked if the\nmilitary had been consulted. The Attorney General said that they\nhad, and that they were in basic agreement that there was only one\nminor tactical difference of opinion between the FBI and the military\n-- something that both sides thought was not of overwhelming\nsignificance.\n\n Having asked those questions and gotten those answers, I\nsaid that if she thought it was the right thing to do, that she\nshould proceed and that I would support it. And I stand by that\ntoday.\n\n Q Mr. President --\n\n THE PRESIDENT: Wait. Go ahead.\n\n Q Can you address the widespread perception --\nreported widely, television, radio and newspapers -- that you were\ntrying somehow to distance yourself from this disaster?\n\n THE PRESIDENT: No, I'm bewildered by it. The only\nreason I made no public statement yesterday -- let me say -- the only\nreason I made no public statement yesterday is that I had nothing to\nadd to what was being said and I literally did not know until rather\nlate in the day whether anybody was still alive other than those who\nhad been actually seen and taken to the hospital or taken into\ncustody. It was purely and simply a question of waiting for events\nto unfold.\n\n There was -- I have -- I can't account for why people\nspeculated one way or the other, but I talked to the Attorney General\non the day before the action took place. I talked to her yesterday.\nI called her again late last night after she appeared on the Larry\nKing Show, and I talked to her again this morning. A President -- it\nis not possible for a President to distance himself from things that\nhappen when the federal government is in control.\n\n I will say this, however. I was, frankly, surprised\nwould be a mild word, to say that anyone that would suggest that the\nAttorney General should resign because some religious fanatics\nmurdered themselves. (Applause.)\n\n I regret what happened, but it is not possible in this\nlife to control the behavior of others in every circumstance. These\npeople killed four federal officials in the line of duty. They were\nheavily armed. They fired on federal officials yesterday repeatedly,\nand they were never fired back on. We did everything we could to\navoid the loss of life. They made the decision to immolate\nthemselves. And I regret it terribly, and I feel awful about the\nchildren.\n\n But in the end, the last comment I had from Janet Reno,\nis when -- and I talked to her on Sunday -- I said, now, I want you\nto tell me once more why you believe -- not why they believe -- why\nyou believe we should move now rather than wait some more. And she\nsaid, it's because of the children. They have evidence that those\nchildren are still being abused and that they're in increasingly\nunsafe conditions, and that they don't think it will get any easier\nwith time -- with the passage of time. I have to take their word for\nthat. So that is where I think things stand.\n\n Q Can we assume then that you don't think this was\nmishandled in view of the outcome, that you didn't run out of\npatience? And if you had it to do over again, would you really\ndecide that way?\n\n THE PRESIDENT: No -- well, I think what you can assume\nis just exactly what I announced today. This is a -- the FBI has\ndone a lot of things right for this country over a long period of\ntime. This is the same FBI that found the people that bombed the\nWorld Trade Center in lickety-split, record time. We want an inquiry\nto analyze the steps along the way. Is there something else we\nshould have known? Is there some other question they should have\nasked? Is there some other question I should have asked? Can I say\nfor sure that no one -- that we could have done nothing else to make\nthe outcome come different? I don't know that. That's why I want\nthe inquiry and that's why I would like to make sure that we have\nsome independent law enforcement people, not political people, but\ntotally non-political, outside experts who can bring to bear the best\nevidence we have.\n\n There is, unfortunately, a rise in this sort of\nfanaticism all across the world. And we may have to confront it\nagain. And I want to know whether there is anything we can do,\nparticularly when there are children involved. But I do think it is\nimportant to recognize that the wrong-doers in this case were the\npeople who killed others and then killed themselves.\n\n Q Mr. President, were there any other options\npresented to you for resolving this situation at any point from\nFebruary 28th until yesterday?\n\n THE PRESIDENT: Well, yes, I got regular reports all\nalong the way. There were lots of other options pursued. If you go\nback -- you all covered it very well. The FBI -- you did a very good\njob of it. I mean, the FBI and the other authorities there pursued\nany number of other options all along the way, and a lot of them\nearly on seemed to be working. Some of the children got out, some of\nthe other people left. There was a -- at one point, there seemed to\nbe some lines of communication opening up between Koresh and the\nauthorities. And then he would say things and not do them and things\njust began to spin downward.\n\n Whether there were other -- in terms of what happened\nyesterday, the conversation I had with the Attorney General did not\ninvolve other options except whether we should take more time with\nthe present strategy we were pursuing -- because they said they\nwanted to do this, because they thought this was the best way to get\npeople out of the compound quickly before they could kill themselves.\nThat's what they thought.\n\n Q Did the government know that the children did not\nhave gas masks?\n\n Q congressional hearings once the situation -- are\nyou in agreement with that?\n\n THE PRESIDENT: That's up to the Congress. They can do\nwhatever they want. But I think it's very important that the\nTreasury and Justice Departments launch this investigation and bring\nin some outside experts. And as I said in my statement, if any\ncongressional committees want to look into it, we will fully\ncooperate. There is nothing to hide here. This was probably the\nmost well-covered operation of its kind in the history of the\ncountry.", "It is interesting, sometimes, to listen to U.S. news as seen through\nthe eyes of another country.......\n\nB.B.C. world news service, on short-wave, originating out of London,\nreports that a survivor of the Waco massacre states that a tank, when\nmaking a hole in the wall of the building, knocked over a kerosene\nlamp and that is how the fire started. Attempts were made by the\npeople inside to put out the fire, but it spread too quickly.\n\nHas anyone in U.S. heard anything similar or are U.S. government\nspin-doctors censoring such information?", " \n[...]\n \n Well, chalk one up for driving away sympathies by looking like\na paranoid lunatic.\n \n \n Last I heard there were nine. Apparently as of this point they've\nfound no bodies, except those killed during the initial assault a couple\nof months ago.\n \n Be cute if Koresh hit the trail.\n \n Maybe he was bodily assumed into heaven. Wouldn't that just\nmake AG Reno's day?\n ", "\n Let's try that again: Why was the BATF concerned about surprise\nwhen they intended to serve the warrant by knocking on the door? The\nBATF appears to be inconsistant in their own description of events.\n\n And in any case, how does one mount an ambush if one isn't\n\"on alert?\"\n\n\n So, were the BATF fired on before or after they left the trailers\nto knock on the door to serve the warrant? Every description I've\nheard indicates the BATF did not hang around in the trailers once\nthey decided to open them up.\n\n For that matter, if they expect peaceful citizens, why come in live-\nstock trailers to being with?\n\n\n Ok, just to make sure we've got this straight: You consider\narmed troops in disguised vehicles and multiple helicopters to be\nused to serve search warrants on peaceful citizens. (And just so\nwe don't have one of those entertaining shifts, *you* described them\nas the BATF expecting them to be, peaceful.)\n\n\n I don't see how past abuses excuse present ones. Hell, you're\nnot even discussing the same government. \n", "\n\nI doubt if Koresh had let the BATF have a look inside his place as they \nintended to do, \"orchestrated character assassination, noise torture, and\na holocaust\" would never have come to pass.\n\nThe BD's killed members of the BATF on the first day. \"Orchestrated character\nassassination and noise torture\" seem like a small retribution. The use\nof tanks is quesionable however.\n\n\n\n--Abhijit", "I understand fire trucks had been at the site for several weeks but were\nsent home three or four days before the assault. Can anyone confirm this?\n", "\n\nFirst the FBI said they saw two members of the cult start the fire-and the \nFBI never lies. Second, the first started in opposite ends of the compound \nat the same time and thirdly, the fire spread too quickly for it not to be \nhelp without an accelerate.\n\n", "\tNor, to point out the obvious, are the deluded, siege-mentality\nfollowers of a religious nut-case who thought he was Jesus Christ or possibly\nThe Big Guy.\n\tPersonally, much as I regard the BATF and FBI as ConDupes, I'll take\ntheir word over a bunch of silly pinks who were stoopid enough to lock\nthemselves up with a goofball like \"David Koresh\" in a makeshift arsenal.\n\t************************************************************\n\t* \tThe_Doge of South St. Louis\t\t\t *\n\t*\t\tDobbs-Approved Media Conspirator(tm)\t *\n\t*\t\"One Step Beyond\" -- Sundays, 3 to 5 pm\t *\n\t*\t\t88.1 FM\t\tSt. Louis Community Radio *\n\t* \"You'll pay to know what you *really* think!\" *\n\t*\t\t\t-- J.R. \"Bob\" Dobbs\"\t\t *\n\t************************************************************\n", "\nI've already corrected my mistake earlier in this thread. I saw a brief \nnews report which led to the above inaccuracy. I have since seen detailed \nsummaries that show the tanks returned in the late morning.\n\nSo, why didn't the BD's leave when the gas was first introduced much \nearlier in the morning? Didn't they care about the children?\n\nWhy didn't they release the children weeks ago?\n\n\n", "The FBI released large amounts of CS tear gas into the compound in\nWaco. CS tear gas is a fine power. Is CS inflammable. Grain dust\nsuspended in air can form an explosive mixture, will CS suspended in air\nform an explosive mix? Could large quantities of CS have fueled the\nrapid spread of fire in the compound?\n \nPlease note I am directing all followups to talk.politics.guns\n", "\n\nThat has not been demonstrated. Had he come to trial, there was a very real\npossibility that Koresh would have gotten an acquittal on grounds of self-\ndefense. All survivors of the debacle have sworn that the BATF shot first.\n\n\nThey \"rang the doorbell\" using a concussion grenade! And if the bloody\nwarrants were \"legal\" then why were they _sealed_ after the fight started?\nAnd if Koresh had declared himself a \"private state\" and was just daring the\ngov't to go in, then why did he surrender last year to a local sheriff who\nserved a warrant _for_his_arrest_ (as opposed to the BATF search warrant,\nwhich did not include arrest unless violations were found) by just calling\nhim up to tell him and then going out to collect him with his squad car?\nThat doesn't sound like a dictator to me, it sounds like someone who knows\nhe has a court battle. Things might have gone very differently if the BATF\n_had_ \"rung the doorbell\".\n\n\nThis is stupid. That is no paranoid assertion, it is testamony from surviving\nwitnesses, and the BATF _has_ no tanks, nor am I aware of either the BATF _or_\nthe FBI using any until yesterday. When they use maximum force they do just\nwhat they did that first day that got four officers killed.\n\n\n\"Underarmed\"? You flabberghast me, they were loaded for bear and every\npicture shows them wearing bullet-proof vests! They were using concussion\ngrenades and full-auto weapons, what was missing low-yield tac-nukes? This\nis a transparent attempt to retcon a justification for the ridiculous amount\nof force used, both initially and yesterday. You should be ashamed.\n\n\nThey _had_ a sure-fire method: keep them bottled up and talk them to death or\nsurrender without giving him justification for some looney-tune religious\nstunt.\n\nPhil, I've been reading your postings for months and I'm convinced that you\nwill back anything, no matter how damaging it may be to yours or anyone\nelse's rights if you think it will hurt people you don't like. It's people\nwith that attitude that set up the preconditions for the Holocaust, a process\nthat is in place _now_ in this country, even if the tattered, pitiful remains\nof the Constitution is slowing its progress. This isn't a Libertarian issue,\nothers may argue that line, but from a strictly Constitutional view of a\ndemocratic gov't, what the FBI and BATF did was wrong, wrong, wrong, even if\ntheir _reasons_ for trying to arrest Koresh were 100% right. _Anything_ that\nleads to the deaths of 17 children, if nothing else touches your stoney\nheart, is _wrong_ no matter who pushed the button. For God's sake, man, get\nyour morality back.\n\nLarry Smith (smith@ctron.com) No, I don't speak for Cabletron. Need you ask?", "\nWhat's despicable is that this sordid incident is being glommed onto by all\nsorts of people desperately trying to \"get a revolution.\" It makes\n\"ambulance chasing\" by lawyers seem like a harmless pastime.\n\nFor the last few months, benighted souls have been calling C-SPAN on issues\nas mundane as budget resolutions, saying that \"I don't know, I just have\nthe feeling there is going to be a revolution in this country,\" and so on.\n\nGet real! For a real case study in revolution, go to Blockbuster Video\nand check out \"Underground,\" a film made about the Weather Underground in\nthe 70's. Even with all the strife back then, the \"revolution\" never did\ncome. And Waco is supposed to be the spark of the end times?\n\nIn the tape, it is interesting to see the way the Weatherpersons dance\naround the issue of one of their defining moments, which was when a few\nof their comrades managed to blow themselves up manufacturing bombs in\na Greenwich village townhouse. The problem, one of them said, was that\nthey were so caught up in their armed struggle that they *forgot* about\ntheir own personal safety and weren't \"careful.\" But of course that was\n*society's* fault, a society that didn't instill a sense of worth in\nthe people, so they neglect their own safety.\n\nCurrent apologists for Koresh may pick up some important rationalization\ntips from this tape!\n", "[..]\n\nThis statement simply amazes me! \"Through no fault of ATF, the element of \nsurprise was lost\"! What element of surprise? In the paragraph preceding this \none, he said \"... the special agents announced who they were and their purpose \nfor being at the compound\", which was to serve the federal warrant. No element \nof surprise was even needed for that. \n\nNo, the element of surprise that they lost was that needed for a preemptive \nfirst strike, without warning. \n\n\nRead: They need to wait until they see how it comes out before they fabricate \nanymore, which could get disproven.\n\n\nAs always, no facts, just my opinions/observations.\n\nJim\n--\njmd@handheld.com", "\nWait a second, you're ignoring major facts here.\n\nThere was NO attempt to simply serve a warrant. The BATF had a\nno-knock warrant. The initial firefight began when the BATF threw\nconcussion grenades at the building. (BATF admits this!)\n\n\nLet's be realistic here, shall we?\n\nYou're a member of a rather paranoid religious organization. Someone\ncomes to your building, dressed in black suits, carrying firearms.\nThey throw a concussion grenade at the place, and try to break in.\nWhat, exactly, are you going to do?\n\nI would not allow anyone to enter my home without first identifying\nthemselves. If someone attacks my home by firing weapons or throwing\nexplosive, I think I'd be entirely justified in defending myself.\n\nRegardless of what I think of the BDs, and regardless of whether or\nnot they were guilty of firearms violations, this is NOT the way you\ntreat people in a supposedly free society.\n\n\t", "\n\n What is your proof that they \"did the best they could\"? Unless\n they had strong evidence that the children were in IMMEDIATE danger\n then \"the best they could\" have done was to SHOW RESTRAINT.\n\n Some of us DID predict this outcome, or at least suggested a\n strong possibility of it. I, for one, said that in the event of\n an assault against the building the CHILDREN were the ones in danger\n either from the assault itself or from a \"Jonestown\" (my phrase\n a week after the seige started) style suicide. And as I pointed\n out then, and repeatedly over the objections of people on the net \n who disagreed with me, an adult may freely choose suicide but they\n have no right to impose this choice on their children.\n\n Now, while I don't expect the FBI to pay any attention to what I \n have to say on this, I *DO* expect them to figure it out on their\n own or to take the advice of experts. The cult specialist inter-\n viewed in yesterday's Boston Globe said he was repeatedly \"stonewalled\"\n by the FBI when he pointed out to them that their confrontational\n tactics played perfectly into Koresh's mad view of the world and so \n increased the chance of a tragic outcome.\n\n\n Give *US* a break! Pumping teargas for 45 minutes into a compound \n filled with CHILDREN?!! This doesn't seem to show much regard for \n their lives or safety. \"Nontoxic teargas\" is an oxymoron. Children\n have tiny respiratory passages which are easily blocked by the secretions\n induced by teargas; moreover teargas can easily cause fatalities in anyone\n subject to laryngospasms, asthma, or heart disease.\n\n If a madman is holding a gun to a hostage, someone who provokes the \n madman by attacking him bears nearly as much repsonsibility for the\n death of the hostage as the madman himself. These kinds of situations\n have to be handled *delicately* - not by surrounding a place with\n tanks and heavily armed personnel and blaring rock music from loud-\n speakers at all hours. That approach is idiotic. \n\n\n\n The solution is to greatly reduce the authority of the \"the authorities\".\n The Feds showed themselves here, as they have so many times in the\n past, to be a gang of trigger-happy, impulsive, yahoos who cause more\n trouble than they prevent. Their confrontational approach reinforced\n every single message Koresh was giving his followers, virtually guarantee-\n ing that whatever crazy solution Koresh proposed would be followed\n willingly. This was pointed out here, on Compuserve, in the press,\n just about every place except in the Justice Department where it seems\n a n.i.h. philosophy prevails. \n ", "Hi,\n\n\nWonder how much money is being spent at Waco by BATF ?\n\nAre we paying because BATF messed up and have made this\na prestige issue ??\n\n\nGirish\n\n\n\n-- \n\nGirish Kumthekar\t\tUnix Technical Support", "\n\n\nWell the attorneys of the Davidians reported on Larry King that\nthe tanks had actually damaged the structure to the extent that\neffectuating egress from the building was difficult at best.\nWith a rapidly spreading fire and large amounts of smoke and\ntear gas, finding the right exits, or acceptible holes in the walls\nwere nearly impossible. I find this explanation to be completely \nplausible. Doesn't mean that it's true, but I don't find it\nintrinsically less believable than the government stories.\n\n\n\nI concur.\n\n\nIndeed. According to the lawyers, the Davidian survivors say that\nlanterns were knocked over during the \"probing\" and that's how\nthe fire started. A tragic accident, if true.\n\n\n\nSee above. This one is going to be thoroughly investigated. Maybe\nwe'll eventually get some idea of what happened. My view is that,\nfrom beginning to end, this operation was a botch and that it is\ncompletely possible that nut cases who were otherwise law-abiding\ncitizens were victims of a bureaucratic execution.\n-- \npaul hager\t\thagerp@moose.cs.indiana.edu", "[...]\n\n\n\nMr. Kuo: I don't recall seeing your byline around much before (at least\non t.p.m). Let me clue you in on this newsgroup. t.p.m is populated\nlargely by people whose hatred for the U.S. government, especially\nthe government of Mr. Clinton, is literally boundless. To these\npeople, the suggestion that agents of the U.S. government would carry\nout a spectacular massacre of its own citizens, in full view of TV\ncameras, is not an 'extraordinary claim'. It's just another day in\nthe life of these United States.\n\nThey don't have to suggest any reason why the FBI would want to\npublicly massacre citizens. Have you seen 'The Crying Game'? \n\n\t\"It's in their nature\".\n\n\nDon Pajerek", "\nConsider this: The BDs had more than one lamp; The tanks made more than\none hole in the building. Did anyone else notice on the video that it\nappeared that wherever there was smoke coming out of the building, there\nwas a tank nearby?\n\nThe fact that it appears that fires started in several places does not\nrule out anything.\n\nAlso, where are these several witnesses? The way I heard it (from the FBI\nspokesman on CNN) the \"witnesses\" were all people driving the tanks.\n\n\nToo bad nothing will happen to her or him. The FBI and the media have\ndone their job well.", "\tMinor quibble back at you. I am in the same general area as\n\tthe Koresh compound and I can tell you that the air was quite\n\tchilly that morning, especially with the high winds that\n\twere blowing. (Of course the swiss cheese walls made it\n\teven worse. ;-)\n", "\nOf course they did, otherwise they wouldn't have staged the\nraid in the first place.\n\n\n\n\n\nNapalming seems a bit redundant.\n\nThe Stupidity was in the BATF mindset 'We're from Washington\nWe Know Better\" Execute Plan A: Storm the compound in a No-Knock\n- the locals are gullible rubes, who cares that they served\nwarrents by knocking on the door. Such an old fashioned, out dated\nmethod of Law Enforcement anyway. Gotta have the latest Armament\nTechnology, doncha know?\n\nSweet baby buddah - didn't these clown ever read \"Dealing\nwith Paranoids\"?\n\nchus\npyotr\n\n\n", "\n\n\nPresumably the B-D did not mount a continuous state of alert with gunmen\nready to fire on people who casually walked up to ring the doorbell.\n\nOnce inside the building the BATF would have been in control. Trained\npolice officers are a match to any bunch of Bozos playing at soldiers.\n\n\n\nNot a smart move. Unless meant to be part of the surprize cover. Even so\nthe narrow opening of the trucks simply was not a good idea. A side opening\ntruck would have been much better, more like a covered waggon.\n\n\n\nSounds just about right to me. Its the minimum amount of force that I\nwould consider necessary to serve a warrant on the talk.politics.guns\nannual dinner.\n\nMichael Hesseltine ordered the use of over 5000 crack troops including\nmembers of the parachute regiment to remove approx 250 hippy peace\nprotestors on a site where they wanted to install cruise missiles. He\neven turned up in a flack jacket to monitor the proceedings. Just about the\nmost dangerous tool the women possesed was a tin opener. That single\naction probably cost him the position as Prime Minister. One of the elders\nof my church got arrested in that heroic action by the forces of Toryism.\nHesseltine ever after was something of a national joke.\n", "\n\nIs this a joke? The legal way to serve a search warrant is to knock on\nthe door. Tossing in a grenade to serve a search warrant violates the\nUS Constitution and is hence, illegal. The BD complied with legal\nsearch warrants in the past. I do not understand why the BATF used an\nillegal means to serve their search warrant last February.", "isaackuo@skippy.berkeley.edu (Isaac Kuo) states in reply to deleted\narticle about no-knock searches, arrests\n\n\n\nIn general no-knock raids are to preserve evidence, like drugs,\nwhich can be flushed down the toilet. They are not the standard way\nto arrest a violent felon like a bank robber. If there is no need to\nsearch or preserve evidence they will just surround the dwelling and\norder the suspect to come out with her hands up. If the suspect does\nnot come out tear gas will be used.\n\n\ncomment on the BD omitted\n\n\n\nIt is not a method to apprehend criminals.\n\n\nIt is a very dangerous method to obtain evidence that might be\ndestroyed if a warrant is served in the normal way. It is the most\ndangerous way to arrest anyone. The cops are charging into a room\nand they don't know what is in it. It is much safer to surround the\nplace and announce yourself.\n\n\n\nCops are not cops _until_ they identify themselves as police officers.\n\n\nMost drug dealers and professional criminals are aware of the\nlikelihood of arrest but they also know how the system works. If they\nare arrested they call their lawyer, post bail and hope for a plea\nbargain. If they pull a gun and shoot a cop during a raid they will\nbe charged with first degree murder if they survive the raid. Drug\ndealers have guns for protection from their customers and other\ncriminals, not to shoot cops. Cops are shot on no-knock drug raids\nbecause the criminals aren't aware that they are cops.\n\nNo-knock raids on homes occupied by non-criminals are more likely to\nend in disaster. Mom and Pop citizen _KNOW_ that they have not\ncommitted any crime, they KNOW that anyone breaking into their house\ncannot be a cop because they have done nothing wrong. If they have\nthe means to defend themselves they may because they KNOW that the\nhousebreakers are criminals not cops. Cops and homeowners may die.\n\nThe first reports from Waco stated that the ATF had a warrant to\nsearch for illegal weapons and also an arrest warrant if the illegal\nweapons were found. In this case the no-knock warrant was not called\nfor. It is difficult to flush a gun down the toilet. The ATF could\nhave surrounded the compound. A marked police car could have driven\nup to the entrance and uniformed officers could have knocked and\nserved the warrant usual way. It this had happened and and Koresh\nrefused the warrant or drove the cops off at gun point then most of\nthe t.p.g folks would have kept quiet.\n", "\nSo, you approve of the BATF launching a 100-person raid, complete\nwith flack jackets, men hidden in horse trailers, stun grenades,\nsemi-auto weapons on peaceful citizens? who would also accept\na search authoried by a court?\n\nThere is still no proof that the Branch Davidians had illegal weapons.\nNothing else was in the jurisdiction of the BATF, unless they were\nthought to have a still, or be smoking untaxed cigarettes.\n\nThe automatic firearms violation is a TAX matter ! You don't serve\nno-knock warrants on someone with .50 CAL MGs. It isn't necessary\n(they can't flush a machine gun down a toilet, you know), and it isn't\nsmart (if you are right, you got a good chance of getting blown away.\nif you are wrong, you shouldn't have done it.)\n\n\nThe stupidity was indeed related to this. But the stupidity may have been to\nattempt to serve the warrant by ludicrously over-armed, over-protected\nand over-confident gestapo. Escalation isn't automatically brilliant.\n\nIT WAS A TAX MATTER ! YOU CAN\"T FLUSH MGs DOWN THE TOILET !\nYOU DON\"T NEED NO-KNOCK WARRANTS FOR EVERYTHING.\n\nActually, IMHO nothing justifies them, but that is another argument .\nThere wasn't any murder of police officers. There was probable cause\nto arrest them for murder perhaps. We US citizens are innocent until proven\nguilty.\n\nThere also wasn't any killing until the BATF screwed up real bad.\n\n\nLew", "on Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1993 12:38:50 GMT, Paul Dietz \n\n/in essence, holding a match under the nozzle, is just *nuts*. One\n/thing you absolutely must do in such an engine is to guarantee that\n/the propellants ignite as soon as they mix, within milliseconds. To\n/do otherwise is to fill your engine with a high explosive mixture\n/which, when it finally does ignite, blows everything to hell.\n\nDefinitely! In one of the reports of an early test conducted by Rocketdyne at \ntheir Santa Susanna Field Lab (\"the Hill\" above the San Fernando and Simi \nValleys), the result of a hung start was described as \"structural failure\" of \nthe combustion chamber. The inspection picture showed pumps with nothing below\n, the CC had vaporized! This was described in a class I took as a \"typical\nengineering understatement\" :-)", "Yes, the local sheriff stated that anytime he wanted to talk to Koresh, all\nhe had to do was call him and Koresh would come down.\n\n\n\nFull agree with you here. I think its ridiculous that he did not even talk\nto Janet Reno until sometime Tuesday, however, he did talk with Wendell\nHubbel(?). So who really is the Attorney General????\n\n\nHopefully the investigation will answer some of these bizarre questions.", "\n+>Critisism is too easy. What solutions do people have that would have been\n+>better than what the FBI had been doing for the last few months?\n\n\nAfter the seige began:\n\nSurround the place with Razor wire and then let them sit. Do not\nhave daily press conferences, do your best to keep things out of\nthe press.\n\n\nAs things get more and more miserable inside, one of two things is\ngoing to happen:\n\n\t1. People will start coming out.\n\n\t2. They will commit suicide in mass at some point.\n\n\nThe thing to remember about (2) is that hysterical situations and \"assults\"\nplay into the hands of a \"leader\" who has picked this course. Its\nmuch easier to stampede people into something like suicide if there\nis gas coming in and bullets in the air. Let them be hungry and miserable\nfor longer and longer and it will probably be more effective.\n\n\tThe \"possiblity\" that they would all kill themselves at some\npoint would not bother me in the least or alter tactics. If people\nare going to take their own lives, the best you can probably do is\nprevent yourself from giving them the opportunity or an excuse to\ndo it.", "\n\nNo, this is not true. the CNN pictures show two sites clearly and a third is\nbarely distinguished. \n\nIf you have a tape you should note that there are two towers at either end\nof the building, a big one and a little one. What appears to be merely a \nlong shot of the big tower with the tank in front is in fact the little\ntower. You can tell beacuse the flag in the foreground switches sides from the\nright of the picture to the left.\n\nThe third site is visible as the flames clearly come from a point obscured by\nthe small tower. You need a tape and a good slow motion video to see this.\n\n", "The latest news seems to be that Koresh will give himself up once he's\nfinished writing a sequel to the Bible.\n", "\n\n Good. Another liberal converted by Waco! If Dave had had something\n realistic, there would have been none of this \"Bradley\" vehicle\n crap.", " \nJames, it could be that they were determined to stay together in the compound\nno matter what happened. Perhaps the fire was accidental, and the DB simply\nrefused to leave the compod. Perhap they died fighting the fire? who knows.\nwe will have to wait and see. i persaonlly find it hard to believe that they \nwould all agree to burn themselves up! what a horrible way to go.", "\n\n\n\t* The news statement was that there was $200,000 worth of \"firearms\n\t and ammunition (no mention of \"assault weapons\")\" on the premises,\n\t not that Koresh had purchased them (what would his crime be if he\n\t had?). This averages to about $2000 per person, not an astronomical\n\t number.\n\n\t* We don't know that there is a thigh-deep pile of a million rounds...\n\t we know that the FBI SAYS there is a pile of a million rounds. ", "\nThe FBI says that some of the survivors claim to have seen the leaders\nof the cult talking about setting a fire, and to have smelt kerosene.\nI assume this will come out at any trial that occurs as a result\nof these events.", "\n\nram.page, n.: To move about wildly or violently. A course of frenzied,\nviolent action.\n\nWho assaulted who here, Phill? Do you remember exactly which side came \nout looking for trouble?\n\n\nSo if it turns out that the fire WAS caused by a tank knocking over a\nColeman lantern, you'll support punishing the \"responsible\" people, Phill?\nOr will you find then find a different reason to hang it all on Koresh?\n-- ", "\n\tIf the FBI started the fire, why didn`t people flee the\nburning building?", "\nMy god, how many chances do they get? Operation Move (Philedelphia, early \n80's), Black Panthers (Chicago, 1969), etc., etc. Hell, we get heavily armed\nmillenial cults out west every couple of years. Do with have to start a \ncascade of times the feds have been in situations like this?\n", "\n\nAttention please!\n\nAccording to the rules of usenet flame wars, once a discussion degenerates\nto the point where Hitler is mentioned, that flame war may be declared\nended. I would like to take this opportunity to do that now. Clearly\nfurther discussion is not useful with the current set of facts, and the\ncurrent name calling and invocation of Hitler's name is not productive even\nby the standards of usenet talk groups.\n\nIf you must continue, please don't discuss this in misc.legal. It's not\nabout the law. If you would like to discuss the law as it applies to the\nWaco incident, please ask questions of the form: \"if the FBI started the\nfire accidentally, who would be legally responsible for the deaths\".\n\nNote that followups are set not to include misc.legal.\n", "\n(Whatever the above comment has to do with the hazards of fighting a\nfire in the midst of ammo cooking off...)\nMaybe the fire department was loudly complaining the whole time about\nbeing diverted from their other duties, and the FBI said \"FIne. Go home\nand we'll call you if we need you.\" A million things could have happened,\nwe don't know.\n\nBTW, this is the first time I have heard that the Waco FD was on scene\nfor all but the last 2 days... what's the source (out of curiosity)?\n\n\n", "\n\n\n Yes, so? You still haven't explained why they \n can't be used to enforce Civil Law. They certainly\n would have done a better job of Koresh. Just call\n in an air strike.\n", "\n\n Minor quibble: The assualt (and it was one) began near dawn. The fire did\nnot break out for several hours. I find it highly unlikely that the BD would\nbe cooking lunch while armored vehicles punch holes in their house and are\npumping in tear gas. The lantern story makes more sense, except the fire \nseemed to spread too quickly, even given the nature of the buildings and the\nvery high winds. And it was daylight, but I guess in the innner recesses it\ncould be dark--shutters probably closed as well.\n\n Which puts us back to the FBI did it, or the BD did it, or some other screw-\nup occured, which is quite possible.\n\n The problem with the FBI as a monolithic entity doing it is that it requires\n*everybody* involved to keep their mouths shut. While they tended to behave \nlike total idiots, that does not make them homocidal maniacs, either. And if\nit was one nutcase agent, then it serves no purpose to blame the whole agency.\n\n I can believe that a real nut-case like a Koresh would start such a fire,\nbut I'm far from convinced he actually did so.\n\n Then again, I rarely go off making blanket condemnations and pronouncments\nwithin 2 hours of a very confusing incident over 175 miles away...\n\nsemper fi,", "\n\tWaco is a city of about 100,000 people. The population temporarily\n raised to about 102,000 people when all the feds, and state police officers\n arrived.\n\n\tI tell you what, I stayed in a hotel room about 4 miles from the BD\n compound around 3 weeks ago. I have never felt more paranoid in my whole\n life. There were at least 100 state police in the hotel.\n\n\n\n", "\n\nIn the interest of accuracy (seems a liitle late to start\nthat, I know) the medical examiner has *not* contradicted\nthe FBI.\n\nThe FBI said they found some folks who had been shot in\nthe head, and the medical examiner said \"we have not seen\nevidence of this\".\n\nAt the time the medical examiner said that, they were dealing\nwith charred bodies in the compound - this sounds like\ntypical medical examiner not releasing details until\na thorough investigation. The medical examiner saying\nhe hasn't seen something is *not* the same thing as saying\nthat it isn't there.", "actions \nthe \nthem\n\nThis is, of course, your opinion. I differ greatly. There can be NO doubt the \nFBI at least shares in the blame.\n\n\n--\njmd@handheld.com", "\n\nIt is silly to make this statement. Fifteen minutes after the fire\nstarted, the \"official word\" out of FBI headquaters in DC was\nthat the DV's committed suicide. It would seem logical that the\nlantern story has more credibility. You can't even to pretend to\nknow for sure what happened... although Clinton is doing just that.\n", "\n\n\nApparently you are unfamiliar with the history of the FBI. You might\ntry looking up articles from the 70's on the FBI's Cointelpro\noperation for starters.\n-- \nDave Feustel N9MYI ", "\n: Oh? Then why did the smoke and flames start from three different places?\n: In particular, three different places where there were no APV's?\n\nThe crushed remains of a PRESSURIZED propane tank were found in the ruins\nof the BD compound. The key word is PRESSURIZED. When that baby was \ncrushed, the gas would have gone all over the place. And when ignited, \nwould look just like the pictures of the explosion we saw on the TV \nnews. Ammo doesn't go up all at once - kind of like fireworks going off.\nPropane gas goes off in a big fireball. Gee, that's kind of consistent \nwith what the pictorial history shows. Hmmmmm...\n\n: And if the government did start the fire, then why weren't people trying\n: to get out of the compound?\n\nRemember, PRESSURIZED gas. People all over the building.\nConflagration in less than a minute. Huge explosion. Gas masks being\nworn by the inhabitants. Makes a lot of sense that very few of those\non the inside would even know that the tank was damaged. If they\nthought it was just a normal fire, they would probably be trying to\nput it out. Then - BOOM - the fireball. After that explosion and \nconcussion, I doubt anybody on the inside of the building was capable\nof moving.\n\n: And besides... oh, I don't know why I'm even bothering.\n\nGood question. Take an objective look at what happened, listen to the \nthings that the FBI said (\"The BD's started the fire.\" \"The BD's bodies\nwere found with gunshot wounds.\") that are now being refuted by the \nevidence being recovered. Seems that the FBI is deliberately making\nstatements that have no rational basis in fact, and trying to make\nthem sound like fact. \n\n: I find it tremendously chilling that so many people seem eager to believe\n: a murderous, heavily-armed religious cult, despite much evidence to the\n: contrary. Thought Experiment: Suppose this exact same thing happened under\n: the Bush administration. What would your answer be then? Would you still\n: prefer to believe the cultists?\n\nYes, I would still believe that the FBI and the BATF were on a non-stop\nstring of lies and half-truths. This is consistent with their operations\non numerous occasions.\n\nAnd as for the BD's being murderous, they did not cause any problems until\nthey were assaulted by the BATF. So now a thought experiment for you: If\nthe BATF had never stormed that farm, would four agents and 90 BD's be\ndead today? \n\n: (No, I don't really expect a response to that challenge.)\n\n: >But then\n: >again, that is how Mr. Clinton was elected, by people who believe that\n: >his campaign promisses would be respected by him once he got into office.\n\n: Um, isn't that how all politicians are elected?\n\nYes. That is how politicians are elected. Kind of scary, isn't it. Now\nif we as a people actually held Mr. Clinton to his promises instead of\napologizing and denying that he ever made them, and actually expected\naccountability by our government, I doubt that debacles like Waco would\nhappen as often as they do.\n\n: So is there any particular reason the gummint decided to slaughter eighty\n: people? Are they, like, just plain evil, or what? Did they just wake up\n: one day, stretch and yawn, and throw a dart at a map of the United States\n: to figure out who to oppress that day? I'm eager to know.\n\nAcutally, no. THe BATF has a rather checkered history of staging raids of\nthis sort just prior to the time when their budget comes up for review. \nOddly enough, their budget was about to be reviewed just two weeks after\nthe initial raid on the BD's. \"Coincidence? I think not!\"\n\nAnd as for the fire, what happened was caused by the act of knocking over\nwalls with an armored vehicle of destruction. The FBI tried to convince\nthe world it was suicide, but all of the facts that are coming out by\nthe investigation of the Texas rangers and medical examiners point to \na gas explosion and quick fire that decimated all of the occupants of the\nbuilding. Sounds to me like a law enforcement agency that is trying to \ncover its ass. \n\n: And does Bill Clinton have cooler theme music than Darth Vader? How is he\n: on diabolical laughter? Does he look good in a cape? These things MUST be\n: investigated. You first.\n\nOh, please. If you want to argue, argue. If you merely want to demean those\nwho see this differently than you, then please go somewhere else. \n\n: Mark Sachs IS: mbs110@psuvm.psu.edu", "\n Actually all the liberals I've seen have deplored the burning of \nchildren. I would far preferred that the Davidians had not set the \nfire that burned themselves and their children to death, but I don't \nbelieve that the responsibility for the fire (or the almost complete \nabsense of attempts to escape the blaze) can be placed at the door of \nthe Federal authorities.\n\n\n Not so. My wife got me a convenient plastic \"drip pan\" for Christmas...\n\n\n Yeah, those Nazis. You know how we liberals just love those Nazis.\n\n\n Yeah, as information trickles in... funny how that works...\n", "\n\nThis was reported in Canadian papers Thursday, 22 April - I _think_ the\nsource was UPI, but don't recall for certain.\n\n\n\nI understand that at least two goverment investigations have been ordered,\nso we may learn more during their hearings. \n\n\nTough call without more investigation, but if the thermal imaging story\nholds up, I think the government will be more credable... of course,\nparanoia fans won't believe their results anyway, will they?\n\n\nHear, hear! I'd also like to see the autopsy reports confirm news reports\nthat multiple victims were found shot (in the head), and in positions\ninconsistent with fire victims. It is simply too early to draw conclusions\neither way about this nasty incident, but I tend to believe the government\nside.\n", " \n \nI'm not sure what you mean by 'saving face' unless you are confusing\nthe FBI with the BATF who are the ones who were in charge of the\noriginal search warrant.\n \nIndependant Negotiators? What was there to negotiate? Any sort of plea\nbargin has to be brought to the court, the negotiators can't negotiate\ncharges or sentences. FBI negotitators did make a deal for the\nDividians to come out. Koresh showed he was not negotiating in good\nfaith and there is no reason to believe independent negotiators\nwould have done any better.", "\n\n\nNo firearms were ever ever shot at the National Guard at Kent State.\n\nAt the time of the shooting, no rocks were being thrown at all. The squad was\nslowly proceeding up a knoll, away from the body of students. Some students\nwere taunting them, and photographs of the incident show at most one or two\nstudents who were following and taunting.\n\nThe series of photographs show the squad slowly proceeding up the hill, while\noccasionally their NCO, .45 in hand turned back to look at where they came from.\nAll at once, as if on command, the entire squad turned and fired their M1\nGarands, firing 30.06 rounds into the crowd (the NCO can be shown with this\n45 at full recoil). At least two of the students shot had nothing to do with\nthe taunters... they were only passing through, and were not participants in\nthe confrontation.\n\nThere is some dispute whether the Guard was even legally on Campus... apparently\nthey had not been invited onto the state school by the president, who had\nconveniently flown the coop, so as not to be around. The governor of Ohio,\nJames Rhodes, had just embarked on a senate campaign, and wanted it to be known\nthat he was tough on peaceniks, so had ordered the guard in.\n\nThe matter was quickly covered up. Some years later, wounded survivors launched\na civil lawsuit against those responsible... a settlement was made, and under the\nterms, the plaintiffs could not discuss much, and guilty individuals were not\nidentified (in fact, those shooters in the squad have been identified).", "\nThe briefing documents for the raid had a notation on them about a\nsimilar local property which had sold for $800,000 prior to the\nraid, if recent TV coverage can be believed.\n\n\nThe Ventura County DA came to the same conclusion in the report he\nreleased, which lambasted the Sheriff's Office.\n\nToo bad the old man was nearly blind, and didn't take a few\ngoose-stepping Drug Warriors (TM) with him.\n", " \nstarted!\".\nnot \n\nIt's also what you say when you're waiting for the end to come in a \n\"fiery apocalypse\"...just a thought.\n\nPersonally, if the fire was set (by either side), I wonder about the\ntiming. If Koresh & Co. set the fires, why wait through six hours of\nwall-bashing and tear-gassing before starting; was there anything \"new\"\nthat happened just around that point? Similarly, if the FBI were going\nto torch the place (and fake it, of course), why wait so long, wouldn't\nit be more \"reasonable\" to believe the BD's would set the fire early\nafter the assault began? \n\nThe most plausible (to me) explaination is that of an accidental starting\nof the fire by the tanks. Among other things, I say that because I\nwas listening to the radio when the fire started and the reporter\n(watching from a distance, of course) said that it looked like at least\none of the tanks had penetrated farther into the building than previously.\nSpecifically, he said that one tank apparently was halfway (half of\nthe tank's lenght) into the building where it previously had only been \npenetrating a few feet.", "\n\nIf there are many as..., er, people in the USA who reason like the\nabove, then it should not be surprising that the current plot has been\nallowed to happen...\n\nRegards,\nVesselin", "\nSome of the survivors have been \"interviewed\" on TV as they were going\nto or returning from court. They basically said, no way was there any\nkind of suicide pact or attempt.\n", "\n\nWho said it was dead. It seems to be alive and well here on the net.", "\n [The original question was about who started the fire and whether the \n \"madmen\" were inside or outside the compound. To which I replied on \n the possible sanity level of those inside and outside.]\n\nI paid my taxes. There was no reference to sex or religion on the form.\nThe comments above and below were meant to address who might be unstable \nenough to keep children in a building with tear gas or start a fire.\n\n\nI agree that the BATF handled the affair badly. \n\n\nDo you believe they would put impostors before the national tv cameras?\n\nAt this point, we are getting conflicting reports from the survivors.\nBest wait til more light is shed upon them. Of course, this is no \ngood if you believe in eternal darkness.\n\n\n", "\n\n\n\n The BATF warrant was unsealed yesterday.\n\n The entire operation was illegal from day ONE.\n\n\n No authority for a \"no-knock\" raid.\n No authority to use the Texas helicopters.\n No authority to search for a \"drug lab\". More ATF lies.\n", "This was posted by Lyn Bates to the firearms-politics mailing list:\n\nI recently learned that Don Kates was going to be in Boston to give a talk\nat the Harbard Law School about the Waco situation. (Of course, this was\nall set up after the incident started but long before its unhappy\nconclusion.) So, yesterday I went to hear him. What follows is a rough\nsummary of what I think I heard him say, which should not be taken as\nexactly what he actually said...\n\nKates started by saying that since he didn't know any more about the fire\nthan the audience did (it had just happened the day before), he would not\ndiscuss that, but would concentrate on the original raid.\n\nKoresh definitely was not playing with a full deck. But so what? This\nisn't the first time that the leader of a new, small religious group has\nbeen ridiculed by the public. Extreme religious views nearly always fuel\nhatred and mistrust. The first amendment applies, maybe especially, to\npeople like Koresh.\n\nLengthy digression into the history of police organizations in the US.\nThere were none until about 1830, when they began in metropolitan areas.\nPolice originally were not armed; if they found a crime in progress, they\ncalled local armed citizens to help. Many began to carry arms for\nprotection despite regulations against them, eventually the laws were\nchanged to allow them to carry guns. The original intent was to have many\nsmall police departments, jealous of one another and competitive, but not\nlarge enough to be a threat to liberty, hence the plethora of\norganizations ranging from postal inspectors to the coast guard. When the\nFBI was started, agents did not have the authority oto carry guns (they\nwere to be, after all, a bureau of investigation, not a police force).\n\"All police agencies will be misused by anyone in power to maintain that\npower.\"\n\nThe BATF started as a tax collection agency, whose primary job was to raid\nillegal stills. When the price of sugar went up so high that moonshiners\nno longer found their trade no longer profitable, many illegal stills\ndisappeared, and the BATF needed something else to do to justify its\nexistence, so it turned to activities like phony raids on gun stores.\nAround the time when the BATF's annual budget is under review, the media\nis alerted by the BATF to come to such-and-such a place, where at a\npre-arranged time, a bunch of cars full of BATF agents roar up to the door\nand the media get great pictures of the agents entering the premises of a\ngun dealer suspected of not keeping books properly. The media isn't\ninvited in for the boring hours of agents leafing through paperwork, but\nif any irregularities are found, the media gets to cover the agents\nremoving armfuls of guns from the premises, and the luckless FFL in\nchains.\n\nThe Waco incident happened a few weeks before BATF's budget was up for\nreview.\n\nKates' opinion is that it was a staged publicity stunt that went bad, and\nthat the BATF never thought for a moment that they would actually be shot\nat, or they would have planned the raid differently (not sending 100\nagents over open ground with no cover, for example), and would have had\nsome medical personnel on hand.\n\nHe confirmed that some years ago there was a warrant for Koresh's arrest\nin connection with a murder charge, and the local sheriff called him on\nthe phone and explained about it. Koresh sais, ok, come pick me up, and\nthe sheriff did, temporarily confiscating all the guns so that they could\nbe tested. Koresh was later cleared, release, and presumably got his guns\nback. At least at that time, he was rational enough to be approached\nrationally, and behaved in a reasonable manner.\n\nThe BATF didn't take into account that, unlike most of the FFL's they\naudit, Koresh was actually paranoid, and fostered paranoia in his\nfollowers. Thus the pubicity stunt looked like a real attack to them, and\nthey reacted accordingly.\n\nWith respect to the original warrant, it had not been unsealed when Kates\nwas giving his talk, so he could not comment on it, except to mention that\nthe BATF has been known to not double-check the veractiy of their\ninformants, if they can manage to get a judge to issue a warrant. He had\nmore to say about the way the warrant was served, which may have been\ncompletely illegal. Apparently the proper way to serve a warrant is to\nknock on the door and announce that you're an officer with a warrant for\nthus-and-so; if they don't open the door and the evidence is flushable,\nthen it is ok to break in the door. But since it is hard to flush guns\ndown the toilet, there may have been no justification for the BATF\nbreaking in the way they did. If the constitutional rights of the\nDavidians were violated by an invalid warrant, or by an improperly served\nwarrant, then the Davidians may have been justified in their actons. A\nclose look at one of the original films shows that one BATF agent _may_\nhave shot himself by accident when entering the building; if so, this was\nthe first shot fired!\n\nThe role of the media could have been a whole lot worse. After an initial\nposition on the side of the BATF, the media began to come around to the\nview that this might be a situation in which legally armed citizens held\noff a bad, possibly illegal attack. A real cynic might say that the FBI\nwent in when they did because it was clear that public opinion was\nbeginning to change sides, and the FBI wanted to act before they lost the\npublic's sympathy.\n\nShould the BATF be abolished? No. Police agencies _should_ be numerous,\ndiverse, inefficient, decentralized, etc. Better a few inept accidents\nlike this, than a move toward a single, large, well-organized,\nwell-trained, powerful, domestic police force, which would eventually have\neven more tragic results.\n\n - Lyn Bates\n (bates@bbn.com)\n\nPS Don Kates will be giving a shorter version of this talk at Boston\nCollege Law School next Tuesday, April 27. I don't know the exact time or\nplace, but presumably a phone call to the BC law school could elicit that\ninformation.", "\n\nI'm sure the Federal Bureau of Investigation (fbi.gov on the Internet) is going\nto *love* reading your incitement to murder.\n", "\n\n The above statement ignores reality. The BD WERE provoked.\n\n\n\n\n Damn, Phil. You must have seen a different tape of the initial raid than\nI did. Your `doorbell' happened to include lobbing percussion grenades and\nattempting to storm the compound through the windows. I can honestly say\nI have never seen a `doorbell' that works like that.\n\n\n\n\n\n THINK, man. The BATF are serving a warrant on someone who they feel might\n have illegal automatic weapons. If they expected, as you state, that `the B-D\n to be anything other than peaceful citizens' they could have sent one, maybe \n two agents up to the front door, knock, and attempt to serve the warrant on\n the person answering the door. Scenario one, that person lets them in to \n perform the search and no one gets hurt. Scenario two, the person answering\n the door pulls a weapon aand kills both officers. Now you have two dead BATF\n agents instead of four, the BATF knows exactly where they stand with regards\n to the BD and began to formulate a plan of action to arrest those responsible\n without harm to the innocent people/children within the compound.\n\n\n\n\n No, the stupidity was the attempt to serve the warrant SWAT style.\n\n\n\n\n Sure, do it within the law. The BATF is there to uphold the law, not\n circumvent it to fit their needs.....\n\n\n<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>\n\n Paul R. Busta\t Busta@vicki.enet.dec.com\n Salem, N.H.\n 603-894-3962", "It's truly unfortunate that we don't have the Japanese tradition of\nHari-Kari for public officials to salvage some tatters of honor after\nthey commit offenses against humanity like were perpetrated in Waco,\nTexas today.\n-- \nDave Feustel N9MYI ", "\nThis is about the third person who's parroted the FBI's line about the\nfires being set \"six hours after the tear gas was injected.\" Suppose you\nwant to explain to us the videotape footage shown on national TV last night\nin which a tank with the gas-injecting tubes is pulling its injection tubes\nout of the second story of a building as the building begins to belch smoke\nand then fire?\n\nDo tell.", "\n\tWhat a load of crap ! The BDs had absolutely NO RIGHT to fire\n\tupon the BATF agents. If they didn't know who they were at\n\tfirst, then they should have surrendered immediately when they\n\tdid realize who they were dealing with. Little groups of loonies\n\tdo not get to decide just what laws they will obey or disobey\n\tor what sorts of warrants are justified. Like the rest of us,\n\tthey get their say at the voting booth and if their personal\n\twants are not backed by the majority of voters, then too bad.\n\tIf they wanted to keep automatic weapons, then they could apply\n\tfor the proper permits. If they had a problem with the warrant\n\tthen they get to argue that in court. In no event do they get\n\tto establish their own little nation inside our own and pretend\n\tthat our laws and law-enforcement personel have no jurisdiction\n\twithin their borders. You live on US territory, you live by\n\tUS laws - period. (unless you are a congressman)\n\n\tSure, the situation was handled badly by both the BATF and\n\tthe FBI. It would have been all so easy to detain Koresh and\n\this core members while they were out in the streets of Waco.\n\tThe BATF, threatened with budget cuts, was trying for a\n\tpropaganda coup ... and dragging the press along for the big\n\tcommando-style assault is proof of that. They should be\n\troasted for both their imcompetance and their mindset. On the\n\tother hand, they DID have the legal right to do what they did.\n\tOnce the attack was begun, they should have pressed on and\n\tfinished it rather than let an interminable situation like that\n\ttake root. ", " \n \nJanet Reno, the FBI, et al were nothing but pawns in Koresh's game.\nHe was a madman who was going to hurt the children, and everyone\nelse in the compound no matter what the FBI did.\n \n \nSuch a hostage situation has taken place on numerous occasions\nwith the result of the police trying to take the place by\nforce and the result being the death of the hostages and the\ngunmen. However, this is the first time I've heard of\nthe blame landing squarely on the police.\n \nIn this country we have a policy of not negotiating a back down\nfrom terrorists and hostage takers since that only encourages\nother terrorists and hostage takers.", "\n*sigh*\n\nIt is standard procedure to suspend law enforcement officers, or re-assign\nthem to administrative (non enforcement) duties, while an investigation\ninto possible misconduct is going on. The Administration has given no\nindication that such suspensions will occur in this case. And given that\nthe president, attorney general and governor were all involved in the\ndecisions that led to the Waco Massacre, they should also suspend all\nactivities regarding law enforcement. Given their positions, that equates\nto an enforced vacation.\n\n", "\n\nCheck again. You may find that the arrest warrant was issued AFTER the\nfirst firefight.\n-- ", " \nBrent, the Feds turned off the BD's electricity a couple of weeks ago... \n \nPerhaps you haven't been paying attention to the radio, TV, or newspapers, \nthough. \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n\n\n-- ", "After the initial gun battle was over, they had 50 days to come out\npeacefully. They had their high priced lawyer, and judging by the\nposts here they had some public support. Can anyone come up\nwith a rational explanation why the didn't come out (even after\nthey negotiated coming out after the radio sermon) that doesn't\ninclude the Davidians wanting to commit suicide/murder/general mayhem?", "Doesn't seem like those responsible for the assault were very concerned\nabout the welfare of the children inside. Seems like they were more\ninterested in flexing their muscle before the media. My reasoning?\nJust ask yourself this one question:\n\nSuppose the scenario was slightly different and we had Chelsea Clinton\nbeing kidnapped by terrorists, holed up in a compound for 51 days.\nDo you think Clinton, Reno, the FBI, and the ATF would be so eager\nto use a show of force?\n\nNuff said.\n\n\n-- \nRichard Mulac ck347@cleveland.freenet.edu", "In the interests of completeness, I thought readers of these \nnewsgroups would want to see FBI Director William Sessions'\nstatement, as released by the FBI press office.\n\n FBI Director's Statement On Waco Standoff\n To: National Desk\n Contact: Federal Bureau of Investigation, Press Office,\n 202-324-3691\n\n WASHINGTON, April 19 -- The following is a statement by \nFBI Director William S. Sessions regarding the Branch Davidian \nincident in Waco, Texas:", "\n\nJust out of curiosity, what else was there to do in this situation?\nWait another 51 days/weeks/months/years???\n\nWas there anything indicating that these children and the other\npeople were going to get out alive?\n", ": The Branch Davidians were not violent and were not planning to start\n: violence.\n: \n: When the BD compound was assaulted by the ATF the BD did fire back.\n: But they agreed to a cease fire and they allowed the ATF to care for\n: their wounded. The BD even released the ATF agents they captured. It\n: is clear from the release of the agents and allowing the ATF medical\n: attention that the BD were not looking for trouble.\n\n This is the first I've heard of the BD capturing and releasing ATF agents.\nIs there any more info about this?", "\n+>1. There is no such thing as non-toxic tear gas. Tear gas is non-breathable\n+> remaining in it's presence will cause nausea and vomiting, followed eventually\n+> by siezures and death. Did the FBI know the physical health of all the people\n+> they exposed?? Any potential heart problems among the B-D's??\n\n\tThey certainly knew that there were pregnant women in there plus \nchildren. I could not believe when they said that the gassing was\nan attempt to \"save the children\" yesterday. I can't think of a much\nworse sort of child abuse that pouring tear gas into a building.\n\n\n+>2. Have you ever seen a tear gas canister?? Tear gas is produced by burning a\n+> chemical in the can. The fumes produced are tear gas. The canister has a \n+> warning printed on the side of it. \"Contact with flamable material can result\n+> in fire.\" Now, how many of these canisters did they throw inside a building \n+> they admited was a fire-trap??\n\n\tI have heard two things recently explaining this:\n\n\t1. They pumped the gas into the building from outside via some\n\tsort of pipe rather than by canister.\n\n\t2. The sort of tear gas they are using was described as some\n\tsort of powdery material that sticks to things. Kind of\n\tlike a powder cloud.\n\n\tAnd once again, these are government lacky explainations and\n\tsince government stories always change, none or all of the\n\tinformation might not be true.\n\n\n+>This whole thing was a case of over-reaction by the officials at every step.\n+>I hope it is thoroughly investigated and the responsible parties are held\n+>accountable. But that is highly unlikely when you figure they are going to\n+>be investigating themselves.", "\nHas this video been made public? The FBI spokesman also said they \nfirst knew of the fire when black smoke started pouring out, but\nlater said that *three* different FBI agents saw B-D members starting\nthe fires.\n\nAlso the FBI claims to have listening devices (bugs) in the compound. \nWill they make public the tapes of what the B-D said?\n\n\nWell sealing the initial search warrent, keeping the media miles away,\nnot letting the B-D talk to the public, making contradictory statements,\nnot releasing the vidio & tapes are not steps to ensure public confidence \nin their actions.\n", "\n\nWell, dozens of children left the compound between the original BATF assualt\nand the FBI assault 7 weeks later. So if Koresh really wanted to kill\nchildren, why did he let so many go?\n\n", "\nYeah, right, and if the ATF trashes your place on a bad tip they have\nto pay to repair it, sure. And if your computer equipment is\nconfisticated in a raid they have to charge you with a crime within,\nsay, 90 days. You're stretching the naivete bit on this one.", "From article <1r19l9$7dv@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, by oldham@ces.cwru.edu (Daniel Oldham):\n\nThey did have the proper equipment. The problem is that they went about\nthings the wrong way. The ATF should have served the warrant in a\npeacable manner instead of going in there like a bunch of Rambos with\nguns blazing. I'm not trying to excuse what David Koresh did. I'm\njust saying that the ATF (henceforth to be known as the cigarette cops :-)\nwent about the \"raid\" in an improper manner.\n\n\nLet the FBI, Customs, and local police officers do the ATF's job. WE\nDON'T NEED THEM ANYMORE!!! The cigarette cops are just leftovers\nfrom Prohibition days. They are an anachronism!\n\n\nIncluding you? What if the cigarette cops kicked down your door and\ncut you in half with a machine gun? THIS COULD ACTUALLY HAPPEN.\nMaybe they get the wrong address and then raid *your* home, for example.\nIt's happened before and it can happen *again*. I have heard of more\nthan one instance of a no-knock raid going sour. Just recently I\nheard about a case in which police raided this guy's home because they\nthought he had dope or something. The guy blew both of the officers\naway and he didn't go to jail for it. The judge hearing the case\nruled that the man was acting in self-defense.\n\n\nAre you sure that that would have been the way to go? Surely the FBI\nand ATF could have handled this fiasco better. They didn't have to\nmassacre all those people. As Stimpy said in \"Fake Dad\", \"Shame, shame,\ndouble shame!\" The FBI and ATF should be ashamed of theirselves. \n\n\nScott Kennedy, Brewer and Patriot", "\nSo, your opinion is truth. I see... :-)\n\n\nYou can believe that if you wish. It is undeniable, however, that people \nhave left the compound unharmed and alive earier in the standoff.\n\nAnd since their leader was preaching that they would have an apocalypse, you \ncan not say undeniably that there wouldn't have been a mass suicide if the \nFBI had simply stayed outside and waited another 51 days.\n\n\nI am the heartless bleeding heart? You are not making sense.\nYou seem to have no concern that someone would keep children inside this \ncompound when they had 51 days to let them out. That sounds pretty heartless \nto me.\n\nI just heard on the news that some of the survivors regret they hadn't \nstayed in the inferno to prove their loyalty to Koresh. This makes me \nsad and sick.\n\n\nHave you ever heard of Jonestown?\nThe sad thing is the people inside the compound were the authority \nworshipers and their only authority was Koresh/Howell. If these \npeople were able to think for themselves, there would likely be a lot \nmore survivors today. Koresh preached a fiery apocalypse as early as \nlast year.\n\n\nBy all means, the FBI should be investigated, too. \nBTW, I thought the second ammendment was God. :-)\n\n\n", "Rejoice! The Streets of Amerika are much safer now that the Branch\nDavidians no longer have those nasty assault weapons. Your children will\nno longer lie awake at night wondering when the next Brand Davidian will\nattempt to shoot them from their rural compound. \n\n Men, women, and children have been murdered by our great BATF, but the\ngreater good has been secured for all.", "\nStill mastering the language, eh? Notice the use of \"apparently\".\n\nas \nif \n\nI'm not denying that at all. But every day is another chance for a good \nending, why push it? Mr. Roby, you are going to die, anyway, why not today? \nEvery moment of life is precious.\n\ndevotion \nYou \n\nNo, you are the heartless \"bleeding heart\". A flaming liberal who \"cares \ndeeply\", who \"feels your pain\".\n\n\nYou have continually raised this issue, without any understanding of the bonds \nbetween parent and child. It is not easy to say a final goodbye to your \nchildren, I do not think I could do it, either. If that makes me heartless, so \nbe it. How many children do you have? I have three.\n\n\n\nIt just makes me sad. I never claimed Koresh was an angel.\n\n\nI made the same authority worshiper point about you a few lines back. And once \nagain, Jonestown, however sick it was, was doing OK, until \"the Authorities\" \nshowed up and pushed a fragile person over the edge. \n\nA bull in a china shop.\n\naffair \n\nNope, the constitution in total is, for me. If you think the RKBA is all I'm \nabout, you misjudge me.\n\nJim\n\n--\njmd@handheld.com", "\nActually if 'a few minutes' translates into 6 hours, you have it\nright. BUT you (and I guess your single-source news agency CNN)\nfailed to mention the Davidians pouring kerosene all over and lighting it in plain\nview.\n\n\nWell, small-scale Jim Jones type suicide with fire instead of kool-aid.\n\n\nSorry, guy, you got it wrong. ATF was pumping tear gas into the compound.\nThe Branch Davidians (going along with their apocolyptic faith) set their\nown compound on fire killing all but 9 or so. No children survived.\n\n\nSelf-slaughter, anyway. I pity the children who were to young to be able\nto make a conscious choice.\n\n\nYou are wrong. Thank goodness. I would suggest, however, that you take\na deep breath, and wait 30 minutes or so before posting. Also make sure\nyour facts are correct before making your allegations(sp.).\n\n\nYou repeated wrong. There were 9.\n\n\nGod help the Branch Davidians.\n\n\nNO DON'T!!!! THERE IS WAY TOO MUCH OF THIS CRAP BEING CROSSPOSTED ALL OVER\nCREATION AS IT IS!!!!!!\n", "...\n\n\tNearly all of them. Witness LA> Firemen are among our real\n\theroes most of the time. I wonder when they were actually\n\taasked to come, or if they found out about the fire over the\n\tTV ....\n\n\n\tShot at by whom? prove it!\n\n\n\tWhen \"law\" replaces \"justice\" the system is dying or dead.\n\tNote that we had a small revolution 216 years ago on this\n\tpoint.\n\n\n\tOr perhaps just wait.\n\tOr maybeeven send in a few agents who are Christian to\n\t\tsit down and pray outside the line? Try affinity\n\t\trather than subversion?\n\n\n\n\tChuckle. SO would you if someone points a gun at you.\n\tAt that point you can die or live; and if living means\n\tstayng in a building to keep badge carrying nuts off your\n\tkids, I suspect you might as well.\n\nBOTH sides were wrong.\n\n\n\tTry again: go see the movie Sophie's CHoice.\n\tGrow up.\n", "\n\n\nLet's go to the videotape. Here's exactly what you posted:\n\n\n\nSo if you weren't saying that the deaths of \"bastard children of a sacreligious\nzealot\" was no big thing (and I know I am not the only one who read it that\nway), just what the hell WERE you saying?\n\n\nSo who brainwashed YOU into believing that whatever the government says it\nthe truth? Or that Koresh was any actual threat to you and the rest of the \nUS? Haven't you ever stopped to wonder WHY the government raided this farm?\nThis raid was NOT ABOUT RELIGION, SEX, OR CHILD ABUSE. To the best available\nevidence at the moment, this raid, psychological torture, and group death was \nabout Koresh's failure to PAY A $200 TAX on ONE grenade launcher that he may \nor may not even have had! That's why it was the BATF doing the raiding in the\nfirst place.\n\nDo you think a $200 tax evasion justifies an armed assault by the government\nwith 100 armed men in trailers, orchestrated character assassination, noise\ntorture, and a holocaust?\n\n\nThen think before you post.\n-- ", "\n\n\n\nWell put, Jim. I am as concerned about the media's complicity in this\ngrowing coverup. Can you imagine the media outrage, the lawsuits, the\ninvestigations that would emit if the government kept the media away from\nany other story? Particularly if a Republican administration had been\nbehind it. What's going on here?\n\nLet's look beyond the initial blunder and examine what happened next.\nI'm a student of human phychology, particularly in the area of psy-ops\nbecause I've found some of the techniques to be useful in business\nnegotiations. That puts me firmly in the amateur ranks. This AMATEUR\nknows that the first thing to do when sizing up the opponent is to do a\npsychological profile on him. You can bet your ass the FBI had\nprofessionally done profiles on Koresh. Koresh's behavior was\nemminently predictable. It is typical of people who move away from\ncivilization to be willing to fight to the death to preserve their\nisolation. It would also be typical, given Koresh's religious\norientation, for such an individual to interpret a government assault as\nthe apocalypse. Suicide is as an acceptable alternative to being\nconsumed in the apocalypse.\n\nIMHO, the FBI knew all this and decided after 50 days of concentrated\npsy-ops to initiate that apocalypse. I believe they chose a course of\naction designed specifically to push Koresh over the edge while publicly\nappearing to be acting reasonably. They KNEW that Koresh considered the\ntanks to be the Chariots of Fire mentioned in the Book of Revelations.\nThey KNEW that sending tanks, oops, combat engineering vehicles,\nobstensibly to perform \"gas insertions\" (love that NewSpeak) WOULD push\nhim over the edge.\n\nLook at some supporting evidence. Koresh's attorney mentioned on TV\nearlier today (4/20) that one of Koresh's major concern was the biblical\nrole of the tanks stationed around the compound. The FBI (through Reno\non Larry King last night and at the news conference this morning)\nclaimed to have listening devices in the compound. If that was true\nthey KNEW their actions were driving him to the brink. They KNEW they\nwere pushing the Davidians toward mass suicide. Any rational and\nreasonable agency NOT interested in killing those people would, at\nthe first sign of preparations for suicide, have pulled completely back and\nwould have gotten rid of all the armor. Instead they continued with the\n\"gas insertion\" right up to the point where flames appeared. The image\nthat will remain etched in my mind is that of the tank strutting back\nand forth in front of the burning compound, gloating over the kill.\n\nLet's step back and assess how this thing could have been ended without\nbloodshed. This technique would have required a law enforcement agency\ninterested in constitutionally enforcing the law and in the preservation\nof life instead of achieving a military victory and of vengence.\n\nThe way to have nabbed Koresh was simply to have announced a pull back,\nabandoned the assault, torn down the concertina wire and removed the\narmor, maintained covert surveillance of the compound and then exploited\nhis ego to flush him out. Exploiting his ego would have been simple. A\nsimple invite or two from the tabloid talk shows to come on TV and tell\nhow he whipped the US government would have been something he could not\nhave resisted. He could have then been nabbed when he left the\ncompound. Simple, clean and safe but because it would have required the\nFBI to execute a tactical retreat and would have deprived them of the\nrevenge they sought, it was totally out of the question. Not without\nall that testesterone floating around. After all Jannet Reno had to\nshow the world how big her balls are.\n\nYesterday was a sad, sad day for the American system. I am sick to my \nvery soul.\n\nJohn", "\n\n\nThis claim hasn't been retracted or contradicted yet, as many earlier\ngovernment claims have? At least one clip showed a fire erupting\nafter a tank busted in a wall. We have unsubstantiated claims by\nthe government about the FLIRs spotting \"simultaneous\" fires.\n\n\nThat's easy. Six hours of CS gas, heavy smoke from a rapidly spreading\nfire, confusion, panic. Only 10% got out. The building was collapsing\nall around them and finding the way out was a matter of luck.\n\n\nThe Davidians may have committed suicide, or some few zealots among\nthem might have started the fires -- that is possible. But, given\nthe government's earlier inability to tell a straight story, I find\nmy above scenario equally possible. I wait for some independent\ninvestigation to look into the whole thing.\n\nIt would be one thing if the government spokespeople had been\nconsistent and forthright throughout. Keeping the press far away\nand ghettoized in \"pools\" was not conducive to building up trust.\nSealing the warrants was non-optimal, as well. This operation\nwas out of control from the git-go.\n\n\n\nSpeaking only for myself, I think Bush and Reagan should have been\nimpeached over Iran-Contra.\n\nIn 1979, I would probably have given the benefit of the doubt to\nthe government. No more. Like I said, I'll wait to see the\nresults of an independent investigation -- if there is one --\nbefore I choose whom to believe.\n\n\nBut you got one, anyway.\n\n\n\nI generally vote for the lesser of two evils. This last time, it\nwas the least of three evils.\n\n\n\nIt was a bureaucratic execution. Out of control bureaucracies driven\nby percieved self-interest and gross stupidity.\n\n\nClinton is just another statist. My only problem with Clinton on this\nis that he is apparently willing to blindly back the ATF and FBI.\n\n-- \npaul hager\t\thagerp@moose.cs.indiana.edu", "russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) writes...\n\n\n\n\n\tIt's fairly simple. It was decided to burn the place down,\n\tand more than one agent was dispatched to set the fires in\n\tseparate parts of the compound. I doubt that \"simultaneously\"\n\tmeans \"at the exact same time\" in this case. It likely means\n\t\"close enough together to preclude them from being part of\n\tthe same fire.\"\n\n\n\n\tThey might be waiting until the evidence comes in from the\n\tsite, and the investigation is at least well underway. \n\n\n\n\tThe same could be said of Jonestown.\n\n\n\tMaybe. Then again, I've been suprised at what folks have missed\n\tin the past in similar situations. Don't jump t oconclusions.\n\n _____ _____\n \\\\\\\\\\\\/ ___/___________________\n Mitchell S Todd \\\\\\\\/ / _____/__________________________\n________________ \\\\/ / mst4298@zeus._____/.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'_'_'_/\n\\_____ \\__ / / tamu.edu _____/.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'_'_/\n \\__________\\__ / / _____/_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_/\n \\_ / /__________/\n \\/____/\\\\\\\\\\\\\n \t\t\t \\\\\\\\\\\\", "\nBut they also might have run out of fire-wood (maybe chopping up furnature?).\n\nThey also may not have been cooking, but eating MREs and other\ndelicacies stored for just such an occation...\n\nJust a thought.\n\nBrent \"Yes I am well aware that their electricity was cut, thanks to the\nHUNDREDS of E-mail messages and replies to my post\" Irvine\n", "\nThe Wall Street Journal had an article on how the police were whining\nabout all the new guns; excuse me, but police are EMPLOYEES of the\ngovernment. Rather like having your janitor complain about job\nconditions.\n\nI say Californians should form armed block clubs that would engage\nin coordinated strategies should BATF attempt to disarm them based\non the \"nefarious tipster\" theory of law enforcement. Unlike Waco, \nCalifornians should be able to destroy armored vehicles in city\nstreets with incendiary weapons, acetylene after slowing them down\nwith abandoned car blockades. M-1 Garands should easily outclass\nBATF shock troops with their H&K MP-5 SMGs, and there should be\nenough Sony Walkmans and Boom Boxes to overwhelm any FBI psy-war\noperation... yes, a good time would be had by all. Billary Clinton\nwould get what he wanted, a War on Gunowners, the BATF would attempt\nto show the anti-gun press they they really, REALLY were in charge\nwith a 500-man \"Charge of the Light Brigade,\" and the FBI would attempt \nto show how _THEY_ really were in charge by asking the Californian \nNational Guard to level the area with artillary!", "\n: ... I think they should rename Waco TX to Wacko TX!", "\n\n\nA suggestion: cameras panning over planted automatic weapons, followed by\na show trial and medals all around for the valiant forces of Lawn Order?\n-- ", ": Seems to me Koresh is yet another messenger that got killed\n: for the message he carried. (Which says nothing about the \n: character of the messenger.) I reckon we'll have to find out\n: the rest the hard way.\n: ", "\n\n\nThe paucity of this line of argument is that it is provably false.\n\nTexas state officials COULD and DID investigate child abuse charges.\nThey COULD and DID apprehend Koresh peaceably. The COULD and DID\nimpound his weapons for the duration. And Koresh was NOT CONVICTED.\n\nNote that child abuse and similar accusations are STATE matters, not\nfederal. The state COULD and DID handle them properly and peaceably,\nand furthermore violating no one's constitutional rights in the process.\n\nSo maybe the best way for BATF/FBI to save people is to mind their \nown fucking business.\n-- ", "\n\nWhich statement is dead wrong, because our local posters have confirmed that \nit was quite chilly that morning.\n\n\nNo, we argue that it was not entirely unreasonable for a woodstove to be \noperational.\n\n\nObviously you missed my earlier posting about the physica of woodstoves.\nIn brief, you can't turn your woodstove on and off like your gas range.\nIt stays on all the time. It even stays \"on\" for over 24 hours AFTER you\nshut it off (which is why most working woodstoves aren't ever \"shut off\"\nuntil spring).\n-- ", "\n\nOh, you mean something like moving the press back to a single\nlocation, 2 miles away from the \"compound\"? The press was allowing\ninto foxholes in Vietnam, but it's \"too dangerous\" to allow them near\nthe Branch Davidians?... There's something skewed about the logic here. \n\n--\nCharles Scripter * cescript@phy.mtu.edu\nDept of Physics, Michigan Tech, Houghton, MI 49931", "\nWas THAT your argument. Well, you didn't make it very well. You started \nfrom the questionable premise that the fire was necessarily an act of\ninsanity, rather than an act of negligence or an accident. Recall, one\nsurvivor claims that the fire started when a tank knocked over a kerosene \nlamp. Kind of makes arguments regarding relative sanity somewhat moot, no?\n\n\n\"Nice evasive maneuver, Mr. Chekov, but they're still on our tail.\"\n\nLet me ask it more plainly. Which of the above complaints about David \nKoresh's religious or sexual proclivities justified an armed raid by the \nBureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms?\n\n\n\n\n\nIt's not entirely far-fetched. Nobody outside the compound would know \nEVERYBODY inside the compound. Don't forget, the BATF admits having \nagents inside the compound, in any case.\n\n\nI'm simply being the devil's advocate. There's reasonable doubt by the\nboatload standing in the way of anybody totally swallowing the official \ngovernment story on Waco.\n-- ", "\n1) Well, Mr Koresh allowed other children and adults to leave the compound\nduring the course of the siege; why didnt these children leave then?\nI dont know myself, and certainly havent heard any answers on this here.\n\n2) Yes, one simple non-action, ie NOT attacking the compound with\nmodified tanks, would have prevented this tragedy. I bet you blamed\nthe MOVE people for the deaths that occurred in adjacent row\nhouses in Philadelphia, not the government which dropped the\nfirebomb, right?\n\n", "I wouldn't want anyone to make kindling out of my front living-\n room wall and then drive their diesel powered M-60 tank into it,\n shooting super-hot soot all over my curtains and that freshly \n made kindling.\n In other words, please don't FLAME me!", "\nAssuming the fire was caused by lanterns and stoves being knocked about\nby the tanks pushing on the walls (would shake a building pretty good)\nperhaps they didn't flee because fleeing would have meant ENTERING the\nfire from the other side? Like they were surrounded by the fire, and\nrubble, which finally (combined with teargas, and combustion gasses)\novercame and enveloped them?\n\nIn other words they were TRAPPED by the flames, heat, fumes and rubble?\n\nDoes that sound plausable? Not as dramatic as Korash forcing them to\nstay, or shooting them (no shot victims found yet), but plausable...\n", "\nIn the FBI briefing, no mention was made of having the fire starters in \ncustody.\nnot \n\nWhy not his mother? Why not the media?\n\n_______________________________________________________________________________ \n_\nSystem.\"\n\n--\njmd@handheld.com", "\n\n\n\tI would agree that a propane explosion is as likely as an\n\tammunition/explosives blast. My question was directed to the\n\tperson who claimed that the propane tank was likely ruptured\n\tby the tank before, or just as, the fire started. If that were \n\ttrue, shouldn't the explosion have happened very soon after \n\tthe fires started?\t\n\n\n\n\n\tThe FBI has made such a fuss over the videotapes and other\n\tevidence that they have to release something sooner or\n\tlater. It's going to happen, and we'll get to see for\n\tourselves.\n\n\tOften law enforcement agencies will withold evidence from\n\tpublic view until the investigation is over. \n\n _____ _____\n \\\\\\\\\\\\/ ___/___________________\n Mitchell S Todd \\\\\\\\/ / _____/__________________________\n________________ \\\\/ / mst4298@zeus._____/.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'_'_'_/\n\\_____ \\__ / / tamu.edu _____/.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'_'_/\n \\__________\\__ / / _____/_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_/\n \\_ / /__________/\n \\/____/\\\\\\\\\\\\\n \t\t\t \\\\\\\\\\\\", "\nCNN reported tonight that some bodies were found with bullet holes in their\nheads. However, I have no information on the possible causes.\n\nThis is not to say that Government stories are to be taken at the face value in\nthis case, but to jump to conclusion at this stage may be the source of\nembarrassment in the future. Let's be paranoic, this may be a ploy to smoke\nout the opposition and decredit them. :-)\n\nComparison of this incidence to Tienanmen Square is made in soc.culture.china. \nJust in case you need more ammunition to shoot at each other. :-)\n\nNo matter which side you are on this Waco issue, are you ready to die defending\nyour cause?\n\nPeace be with you.", ":\n:> As someone else has pointed out, why would the stove be in use on a warm day\n:> in Texas. \n:\n:Do YOU eat all your food cold?\n\nThank you for pointing out the obvious to people who so clearly missed it.\nI can't stand it when people's first reaction is to defend the aggressor.\n\nMr. Tavares, you have a unique and thoughtful way of getting to the heart\nof the matter, and I thank you for putting it to good use.\n\nMike Ruff\n\n", "Tim> NNTP-Posting-Host: nwfocus.wa.com\n\n\nTim> I saw the film on CNN *as* it happend. It was clear from that\nTim> tape that the fire started in ONE location. Right where the\nTim> tank was attacking, and then had pulled back. There were not\nTim> several spots where the fire started, it started in one\nTim> location and was spread in the direction of the heavy wind.\nTim> The FBI claims to have seen or filmed several starting\nTim> points. Yet they keep this hidden. They have spread so much\nTim> lies. Well I guess if I was responsible for the mass murder\nTim> of 80 people who were exercising constitutional rights, I\nTim> would lie about it too...\n\nGosh, Tim, you must have seen a different live broadcast than I did. While\nthe smoke did emerge from one place initially, it was a considerable\ndistance from the tank, and in a very short time, fire appeared at several\nplaces a good distance apart from there.\n\nThen there's that nagging question about why, out of all those people,\nonly a few made any attempts to escape or save the children. If it were\nme, with my child, [and I wasn't committing suicide,] I believe I would have\nmade SOME attempt to at least save the child. As it was, at least one of\nthe survivors was attempting to GO BACK INTO THE FIRE when they were\nphysically removed. No one lifted a finger to bring out a child, apparently.\n\nHow do you explain that? And the two survivors who claimed to have doused\nthe place with lantern oil and SET the fire (no doubt on David's orders). \n[At least until the lawyers talked to them.] \n\nTim> And also, why have they not yet released the search warrant???? \n\nThat *is* a good question. Maybe because it would be a further\nembarrassment, seeing as how the ATF went in there in Dirty Harry mode\ninitially. \n\nAs stupidly as it all was handled, I find it difficult to believe that the\nentire FBI has completely gone corrupt under a new administration less\nthan 100 days old. Stupidity and bad decisions and plans have always been\nwith us. They just had an alignment at Waco.\n\nTim> Seeeeee Ya turmoil@halcyon.com FUCK THE POLICE!!!!\n\nSee? Freedom of speech abounds.\n\nL.\n\"Yeh, Buddy.. | larry@psl.nmsu.edu (Larry Cunningham)| _~~_\n I've got your COMPUTER! | % Physical Science Laboratory | (O)(-)\n Right HERE!!\" | New Mexico State University | /..\\ \n (computer THIS!) | Las Cruces, New Mexico, USA 88003 | <> ", "\nWhat is \"doing it right the first time\"? Murdered them all? Used tanks? \nMaybe they should have had enough evidence to indict. From the list presented\nto date, I haven't seen ANYTHING illegal. They claim that the BD's bought\ncomponents to convert their weapons to Class III devices, but no evidence that\nthey had done so. In fact, with a Class III FFL living with them, this may\nhave been legal (given recent court rulings).\n\nWhat you really meant to say was that the ATF should have done the right and\nlwaful thing. Or did you just want the BD's dead?", "\nThe killing of the ATF agents is a separate issue. My point is that many\nchildren died because of Koresh defending himself. Did he have what you\ncall the \"moral right\" to keep those children in a dangerous enviroment in\norder to defend himself? \n\n", "The best reason to abolishing the ATF is that they don't have enough\nto do. If the organization were disbanded and its duties assigned to\nthe FBI (firearms) and IRS (tobacco and alcohol). Both of these\norganizations have enough to do. The FBI is probably not going to try\nto get a criminal charge of illegal machine gun for having a broken\ngun.\n \nThere have been postings stating that law enforcement should be\ndivided and and weak. But there is nothing more dangerous to\nliberties than a law enforcement agency without enough criminals to\nchase. The ATF is one and look at the trouble it started in\nWaco.\n \n", "\nThe Dividians didn't have that option after the FBI cut off their\nelectricity.\n", "\nSo far, the medical examiner (according to the news) has found NO EVIDENCE\nof gunshot wounds in bodies so far examined. If this continues to be\nthe case, it will sort of shoot holes (pun intended) in the FBI story,\nwouldn't it? And cartridges going off outside a firearm do not launch\na bullet like they do when fired from a gun. The bullet hardly moves,\nit is the brass casing that goes flying, and then with less than lethal\nforce. It will hurt, yes, but not KILL you - I doubt if it wil penetrate\na coat, for example.\n\nHow about an INDEPENDENT investigation, with full subpoena powers, and\npowers to prosecute on felony charges, to investigate for any possible\nillegal/criminal activity on the part of both the BATF and FBI? I\ncannot see any reason why not - to use the phrase they like to use\nso often, \"if they have nothing to hide...\" they should welcome it,\nand vigorously support it. Note that an internal investigation by the\nDept of Justice is NOT an independent investigation...\n", "COCHRANE,JAMES SHAPLEIGH writes\n\n\nThis group killed itself to fulfill its interpretation of prophecy\nand to book a suite in Paradise, taking innocent kids along for the\nride. I hardly think the feds were motivated by persecution. If they\nwere, all Koresh would have had to do was surrender quietly to the\nauthorities, without firing a shot, to get the American people behind\nhim and put the feds in the hot seat. But no, God told him to play\nthe tough guy. There's great strength in yielding, but few appreciate\nthis. \n", "\n\noh, i see. electricity is a natural right & our wonderful government\nwould -never- cut off the power to the people they were besieging.\nare you really this dumb, or just acting like it for the sake of\nargument?\n\njason\n", "Ah yes, I see a few liberal weenies have come out of the woodwork\nto defend the burning of the children. Probably drooled all over themselves\nwhile watching the TV coverage.\n\nProbably had a few like that in Nazi Germany, as well.", "\nNo answer.\n\n\nI do not feel like the cameras were out of range. Cameras watched the first \nconfrontation. Cameras watched the banners. Cmaeras watched the final \nconfrontation with tanks. Cameras watched the fire. When weren't cameras \nable to watch? When would cameras be unable to watch people coming out with \ntheir hands up?\n\n\nWell, that is what BATF should have done. Either, Koresh would have gone \npeaceably as he has done in the past, or perhaps it was already too close \nto the apocalypse in his own mind. It is hard to predict the actions of \na leader who would not release the children when most rational people would.\n\nNow will you answer my question up top?\n\n\n", "\nThere's another point to be made. Those who have been inside burning\nhouses know that if they want to stay alive, it's better to run out\nfrom the building. We had one case where an FBI agent *had to \ndrag out a women* from the burning house, she run back in when\nshe saw the forces arriving. It is a good indication of the fanatical\nmind that the followers had -- including having they children burned\ninstead of saving these innocent victims of the instance.\n\nCheers,\nKent", "\nI watched it live, and have re-watched it several times, and from the press \nvantage point, there was only one starting point visible, where the tank \npunched in on the windward side, and the winds whipped that fire across the \nwhole, dry, wooden, structure in minutes. Faned by the 30 mph gusts, and the \nHueys. If there were other fires started, they were not visible, nor were \nthey needed to cause the flame progression I observed.\nAll witnesses get thier paychecks from the FBI.\n\nYep. They media has endorsed the FBI version without question. Sad.\n\nJim\n--\njmd@handheld.com", "\n\n\tWould *you* have come out if you knew the only national TV\ncameras were well over a mile away, and yet the agents with the guns\nwere only a few yards away? They had contact with a lawyer, so I\nam inclined to believe they had an idea of what their situation\nactually was. This also leads to the conspiracy theory that the\nlawyer had the BATF pinned on rights violations if the BD's\nacted as witnesses, hence the arson. I doubt that one too, but\nit is still quite clear that leaving a safe place to surrender is\na rather stupid thing to do until that place is no longer safe.\n\n\n\tAs a matter of course, given how they've allowed no other\nviews to be heard. I'll reserve judgement until the trial, but so\nfar as the FBI is concerned their statements carry the same amount\nof weight as photons at rest.\n\n\n\tLudicrous, yes. Possible, yes. Plausible? Get the jury.\n\n\n\tThat's what gets me too. It is likely the cult members were\nholed up in an enforced place inside the building. With a decent arson\nattempt I suspect many of them could have been trapped. In addition,\nthe introduction of CS gas for several hours would have rendered many\nof them immobile if not unconscious when their masks quit. All the props\nare there, but proving what scene was played is difficult. The only\ncertainty is that the FBI and BATF have few witnesses against them.", "\n\tDont you believe that the Branch Davidians committed suicide for one\nminute. I would not put it past the FBI to lob in some incendiary grenades\nwhile they feed your their story. Don't ever ever trust what your wonderful\ngovernment tells you. Janet Reno and the FBI have the murder of a hundred\npeople on their hands. Hope they can sleep at night....\n\nP.Vasilion, kb2nmv\nSUNY @ BUFFALO\n<>", "\tThis will not, of course, deter the several die-hard Koreshies on\nthis net, who will probably claim that the Tarrant County medical examiner\n(Dr. Peerwani) was coerced by the FBI into faking this evidence. Either that,\nor they'll claim the FBI shot them.\n\tThe rest of us might contemplate the difficulty of determining the\ncause of death from a corpse that has been reduced to a Krispy Kritter.\n\t************************************************************\n\t* \tThe_Doge of South St. Louis\t\t\t *\n\t*\t\tDobbs-Approved Media Conspirator(tm)\t *\n\t*\t\"One Step Beyond\" -- Sundays, 3 to 5 pm\t *\n\t*\t\t88.1 FM\t\tSt. Louis Community Radio *\n\t* \"You'll pay to know what you *really* think!\" *\n\t*\t\t\t-- J.R. \"Bob\" Dobbs\"\t\t *\n\t************************************************************\n", "\nNot to mention last year's Weaver affair.\n\nAnyway, here's how I see the Waco affair; I'd be interested in other peoples'\ninterpretations...\n\n1. Koresh and his people were basically minding their own business.\n2. Some weapons violations may have been committed and I wouldn't have\n disapproved of prosecuting him for those violations. However, I think\n the BATF was criminal for starting negotiations with a military style\n assault and for firing into a house where there were children and other\n noncombatants.\n3. I don't see they couldn't just leave a token guard on the place and wait\n the BDs out; I don't approve of the tear gas approach and, if it caused\n the fire to be started, I think the FBI agent responsible should spend\n 10-20 years in jail.\n4. However, if Koresh's response to the tear gas was to kill everyone there,\n I hold him largely responsible for their deaths.", "Hmm... am I the only person that remembers Masada? This isn't the first time\na group has committed suicide to avoid persecution/capture... and you seem to\nmiss the point that the raid SHOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!\nI find the FBI actions too damn reminiscent of the Warsaw Ghetto... fitting \nthat Al Gore was in Poland for events marking the 50th anniversery of that...\nRemove any references to dates and you have two raids by government troops\nwearing black uniforms, carrying automatic weapons, backed by armored vehicles,\nagainst religious minorities they claim were practicing sexually deviant \nbehavior and hoarding weapons... Too damn similar...\n\nJames\n\nps: I am not advocating the BD's, I just find the whole situation too damn \ntroubling.\n", "\nIn some South American countries, after political undesirables disappeared,\nthe family would get a notice of death and a bill for the disposal\nof the body. You apparently think that would be a good idea.\n\nThe Federal Government initiated this action against Koresh and his\nfollowers, surrounded them for 51 days, engaged in psychological\nwarfare, used heavy military equipment against US citizens on\nUS soil; and now that the compound caught fire while they were\npumping in CS gas after knocking holes in the building; disavows\nall responsibility. Big Brother is NOT always right.\n", "To Rob and all others that have been debating about the wood stove.\n The original post claimed that the ATF/FBI was pumping napalm into the \nbuilding with the hopes that the wood stove inside would ignite it. I responed\nwith why would the wood stove be lit in the first place? It wouldn't be lit \nfor heating purposes because of the weather in Texas. Everyone now claims \nthat it was for cooking. Stop and think about this. CS gas was being pumped\ninto the building and I presume that everyone was wearing gas masks (either\nbought or some type of makeshift type) and this had been going on for 6 hours.\nI don't know if you have ever been around CS, but I have. Being exposed to CS\ngas was part of my Army training, so I know that without a mask it VERY \nuncomfortable and makes your eyes water, nose run, and makes you sick in \nthe stomach. And with the mask it is very difficult to drink water much less \neat. So my question now is \"why were they cooking food?\"\n I will buy that a lantern could have been knocked over and caused the fire.\nBut that stove was not being used for cooking (unless they were even more\ncrazy than the ATF/FBI claim).", "\nWhat is the penalty if convicted of murdering 4 Federal agents\nin Texas? The death penalty.\n\n\nYup.", "\n\n\n\nIndeed. Larry King had the two attorneys (whose clients are now\ndead) of Koresh and another Davidian on his show last night. Their\ndiscussions with the survivors differ from the FBI account. The\nattorneys say that they were told that the tanks knocked over lanterns\nin the compound which started the fires.\n\nGovernment spokespeople have lied and contradicted each other \nthroughout this whole affair. I'll wait for some better evidence before\nI form an opinion.\n-- \npaul hager\t\thagerp@moose.cs.indiana.edu", "On a Los Angeles radio station last weekend, the lawyers for the\nfamily of the MURDERED rancher said that the Los Angeles Sheriff's\nDepartment had an assessment done of the rancher's property before\nthe raid.\n\nThis strongly implies that the sheriff's department wanted the property;\nany drugs (which were not found) were only an excuse.\n\nIn Viet Nam, Lt Calley was tried and convicted of murder because his\ntroops, in a war setting, deliberately killed innocent people. It is time\nthat the domestic law enforcement agencies in this country adhere to\nstandards at least as moral as the military's.\n\nGreed killed the rancher, possibly greed killed the Davidian children.\nGovernment greed.\n\nIt is time to prosecute the leaders who perform these invasions.\n", "\nNo, this is far from clear. We only have the word of the FBI spokepeople that\na survivor made this claim. We have the contradictory word of the lawyers who\nspoke with the survivors individually that ALL of them agreed that they did\nNOT have a suicide pact and did not intentionally start the fire. In the absense\nof any more evidence, I don't see how we can decide who to believe.\nFurthermore, its quite possible that there was no general suicide pact and that\nsome small inner circle took it upon themselves to kill everyone else.\nWith the state of the area now, we may never know what happened.\n\n\nAgain, we have only the word of the FBI on this claim. The lawyers who\nhave also talked to the survors deny that any of them are making that claim.\n\n\nI will agree on your assessment as to the relative probabilities. Its more likely\nthat the BD's started the fire than did the FBI. But there is currently NO\nway to decide what actually happened based on the publically available evidence\n(which is nearly none).\n\n\n D. The fire was an started accidentally by the BDs. I am truely amazed that\n I have heard (or read) of no one suggesting this possibility.\n With all the tear gas and the lack of electical power in the compound and\n the adults wearing gas masks, it had to have been chaotic inside.\n I can easily image someone leaving a lamp too close to something or\n accidentally dropping a lamp or knocking one over. With the winds, it\n would have quickly gotten out of control.\n\n\n No, I think that D is also quite reasonable. I personally can't really\nasses any relative probablities to either of these 3 probabilities although if\nforced to bet on the issue, I would probably take an accident (either FBI or\nBD) over intential setting of the fire).\n\n I would also like to add a comment related to the reports that bodies recovered\nhad gunshot wounds. The coroner was on the Today Show this morning and categorically\ndenied that they've reach any such conclusions. He pointed out that under intense\nheat, sufficient pressure builds up in the head that can cause it to explode and\nthat this can look very much like a massive gunshot wound to the head which is\nquite consisted with te reports I've read and heard.\n\n In short, there's been almost no evidence corroborating any of the many\nscenarios as to what happened on Monday. We should remain skeptical until\nmore information is available. \n\n\n-- ", "Also, it appears that two of the three Marines have some sort of charges\npending against them from another fight they were in a week before. \nInteresting.\n\nFrank\n\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nFrank R. Chloupek \nCHLOUPEK@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu \nDepartment of Physics -- *The* Ohio State University\n(Not just any Ohio State University) ", "american and european universities were full of Angry Young People(tm)\nthat wanted to overthrow the government, and wouldn't think twice\nabout lobbing a molotov cocktail at the national guard (military police\nin Europe.)\n\nCertainly, it would have been very bad form to take anything\nthe System(tm) said at face value.\n\nThis was in the end of the sixties and the begining of the seventies,\nI'm told. I was too young to remember.\n\nSomething wrong happened along the way, I'm afraid. Maybe the west\nbecame just too comfortable, or maybe I was born too late :(\n\nYours, disappointed with with the youth of today,\n\nPS: 1) Half smilies implied.\n 2) There *is* a difference between lining up 90 people against the\n wall and executing them, and causing their deaths through negligence/\n imcompetence. I honestly hope we witnessed the latter. As they say,\n the alternative is too horrible to contemplate.\n 3) I'm sure the Abused Children(tm) from the compound are much \n safer now.\n-- ", "\n\n\nAnd this search procedure must also follow the rule of law.\n\n\nIt may, if necessary, when the search is executed in an illegal and\nviolent fashion.\n\n\nThese \"criminals\" were threatening the lives of NO ONE -- they were fired \non FIRST, according to a number of accounts.\n\n\nWrong. Firing a gun at someone is lethal force, even if no one is hit.\nOf course, they DID hit AND kill people.\n\n\nYou are silly. There are no such warrants in existence, Phill.\n\n\n\nThanks, Phill, for another example of that great socialist sensitivity.\n\"Obey the government or die.\"\n\n*PLONK*\n-- ", "\n[lotsa stuff taken out]\n\nBottom line: due process was not served. No peaceful attempt to serve\na warrant occurred.\n\nThink on that.", "\n\n I don't think we've got a conspiracy on our hands, or anything\nvaugely similar. I do think that the Feds showed a distinct lack of\nboth intelligence and disregard for others safety throughout this whole\nmess.\n\n I do think the FBI and the BATF screwed up big. What made me\nreally concerned was FBI director William Sessions being on CNN engaging\nin what could only be called spin control before the place had even\ncooled down. Evertyhing had literally blown up in their faces and I felt\nthere had to be something more important he should have been doing...\n", "\nWe have reached the point in our society when there are certain crimes\nthat are so heinous that to merely be accused with them one is automaticly\nconsidered guilty and deemed not to have any natural rights much less civil \nrights. Among these are drug abuse, sexual perversion, and political \nincorrectness.\nToday Billary accused Koresh of having SEX with infants. He had been accused of\na number of differing crimes (inconsistantly) over the last two months, but \nthis is the first time I have heard that one. I had heard child abuse but\nthis is somewhat stronger.\nIt is fairly obvious that Koresh was hiding behind the children; and ironicly\nconsidering his apocalyptic dread, believed enough in the American People's\ninherent goodness to believe he was protected.\nIt is truly amazing that all these people who 60 days ago had never heard of \nthe Branch Davidian now believe that he was suicidal, crazy, a child abuser and \na immenant danger to others based solely on what the Government spokespersons\nhad said. Remember that these people have an awful lot to loose if it is found\nthat they have screwed up. \nBut they don't have as much to lose as David Koresh and his followers lost.\nFor in our society as it stands murder is not one of the heinous crimes.\n\n", "\n\n\nHas anyone publically considered the possibility that the fires were set\nfor defence instead of suicide and the destruction and confusion caused\nby the tanks and gas caused things to get out of the BDs control?\n\n--\n\"Spending programs are now 'investments,' taxes are 'contributions,' and \nthese are the same people who say _I_ need a dictionary?\" - Dan Quayle 2/19/93", "Just saw on CNN that the independent team that examined the Waco fire\nand reported that it was started inside by the BDs is now under question.\n\nThe attoneys for the BD's are claiming that it's not an impartial team\nfor the team leader is the wife of one of the BATF agents. HA!\n\nThe goverment continues with it's propaganda.\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\n-\tThis is not a secure line. -\n-\tDaniel R. Oldham\t\t\toldham@heron.icd.ab.com -", "\n\nTrue.\n\n\nNo more risk than smaller stashes unless the stash is somehow confined so\nthe heat from early ignitions could somehow bulk-heat the remainder.\n\nTwo years ago this month my house and office burned. In my office was my\nreloading bench. On the top shelf next to the wooden ceiling was \nabout 100 lbs of smokeless powder, 5 lbs of black powder, several thousand\nprimers and a couple thousand loaded rounds, primarily in .45ACP, .30-20\nand .308. The fire was extinguished before the area containing the \nreloading supplies were fully involved. There was about 1/2\" of char on\nthe joists, subsequently removed by sandblasting. Lots of heat in other\nwords.\n\nNone of the powder kegs ignited. One 1lb can of pistol powder ignited.\nNo explosion, as the can opened at the seam as it was designed to do.\nThe black powder cans were charred and got so hot the plastic lids\ncompletely melted and ran down inside. The smokless powder was\ncontained mostly in 8 lb cardboard or metal kegs. The kegs were charred\nbadly enough that the paper labels burned completely off and in the case\nof the metal cans, the plastic lids melted completely away.\n\nMany of the rounds cooked off. They were in close proximity to wood\non all sides so the effects were easy to observe. In most cases with the\nrifle ammo, the cartridge cases ruptured in the middle. Many bullets were\nfound still in the neck. Small shards of brass were lightly stuck into \nthe wood. Lightly enough that brushing them with a fingertip would usually\ndislodge them. Primers generally popped out of the primer pockets.\nThe .45ACP rounds that cooked off left empty cases and bullets laying around.\nNo dents were observed above the storage area, indicating the bullets\nleft the cases slowly enough not to be a hazard.\n\nOrdinary small arms ammo is NOT a hazard when cooking off regardless\nof what the FBI says. \n\nJohn\n", "THE WHITE HOUSE\n\n Office of the Press Secretary\n______________________________________________________________\nFor Immediate Release April 20, 1993 \n\n\t \n REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT\n IN QUESTION AND ANSWER SESSION WITH THE PRESS \n\n\n The Rose Garden\n\n\n1:36 P.M. EDT\n\t \n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: On February the 28th, four federal \nagents were killed in the line of duty trying to enforce the law \nagainst the Branch Davidian compound, which had illegally stockpiled \nweaponry and ammunition, and placed innocent children at risk. \nBecause the BATF operation had failed to meet its objective, a 51-day \nstandoff ensued. \n\t \n\t The Federal Bureau of Investigation then made every \nreasonable effort to bring this perilous situation to an end without \nbloodshed and further loss of life. The Bureau's efforts were \nultimately unavailing because the individual with whom they were \ndealing, David Koresh, was dangerous, irrational, and probably \ninsane. \n\n\t He engaged in numerous activities which violated both \nfederal law and common standards of decency. He was, moreover, \nresponsible for the deaths and injuries which occurred during the \naction against the compound in February. Given his inclination \ntowards violence and in an effort to protect his young hostages, no \nprovocative actions were taken for more than seven weeks by federal \nagents against the compound. \n\t \n\t This weekend I was briefed by Attorney General Reno on \nan operation prepared by the FBI, designed to increase pressure on \nKoresh and persuade those in the compound to surrender peacefully. \nThe plan included a decision to withhold the use of ammunition, even \nin the face of fire, and instead to use tear gas that would not cause \npermanent harm to health, but would, it was hoped, force the people \nin the compound to come outside and to surrender.\n\t \n\t I was informed of the plan to end the siege. I \ndiscussed it with Attorney General Reno. I asked the questions I \nthought it was appropriate for me to ask. I then told her to do what \nshe thought was right, and I take full responsibility for the \nimplementation of the decision. \n\t \n\t Yesterday's action ended in a horrible human tragedy. \nMr. Koresh's response to the demands for his surrender by federal \nagents was to destroy himself and murder the children who were his \ncaptives, as well as all the other people who were there who did not \nsurvive. He killed those he controlled, and he bears ultimate \nresponsibility for the carnage that ensued.\n\t \n\t Now we must review the past with an eye towards the \nfuture. I have directed the United Stated Departments of Justice and \nTreasury to undertake a vigorous and thorough investigation to \nuncover what happened and why, and whether anything could have been \ndone differently. I have told the departments to involve independent \nprofessional law enforcement officials in the investigation. I \nexpect to receive analysis and answers in whatever time is required \nto complete the review. Finally, I have directed the departments to \ncooperate fully with all congressional inquiries so that we can \ncontinue to be fully accountable to the American people.\n\t \n\t I want to express my appreciation to the Attorney \nGeneral, to the Justice Department, and to the federal agents on the \nfront lines who did the best job they could under deeply difficult \ncircumstances. \n\t \n\t Again, I want to say as I did yesterday, I am very sorry \nfor the loss of life which occurred at the beginning and at the end \nof this tragedy in Waco. I hope very much that others who will be \ntempted to join cults and to become involved with people like David \nKoresh will be deterred by the horrible scenes they have seen over \nthe last seven weeks. And I hope very much that the difficult \nsituations which federal agents confronted there and which they will \nbe doubtless required to confront in other contexts in the future \nwill be somewhat better handled and better understood because of what \nhas been learned now.\n\t \n\t Q\t Mr. President, can you, first of all, tell us why, \nafter 51 days, you decided --\n\t \n\t Q\t Mr. President, can you describe for us what it is \nthat Janet Reno outlined to you in your 15-minute phone conversation \nwith --\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: I can't hear you both. If one will go \nfirst and then the other.\n\t \n\t Q\t Sorry. Can you describe what Janet Reno --\n\t \n\t Q\t Mr. President --\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: I'll answer both your questions, but I \ncan't do it at once.\n\t \n\t Q\t Can you describe what she told you on Sunday about \nthe nature of the operation and how much detail you knew about it?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: Yes. I was told by the Attorney General \nthat the FBI strongly felt that the time had come to take another \nstep in trying to dislodge the people in the compound. And she \ndescribed generally what the operation would be -- that they wanted \nto go in and use tear gas which had been tested not to cause \npermanent damage to adults or to children, but which would make it \nvery difficult for people to stay inside the building. And it was \nhoped that the tear gas would permit them to come outside. \n\t \n\t I was further told that under no circumstances would our \npeople fire any shots at them even if fired upon. They were going to \nshoot the tear gas from armored vehicles which would protect them and \nthere would be no exchange of fire. In fact, as you know, an awful \nlot of shots were fired by the cult members at the federal officials. \nThere were no shots coming back from the government side.\n\t \n\t I asked a number of questions. The first question I \nasked is, why now? We have waited seven weeks; why now? The reasons \nI was given were the following:\n\t \n\t Number one, that there was a limit to how long the \nfederal authorities could maintain with their limited resources the \nquality and intensity of coverage by experts there. They might be \nneeded in other parts of the country.\n\t \n\t Number two, that the people who had reviewed this had \nnever seen a case quite like this one before, and they were convinced \nthat no progress had been made recently and no progress was going to \nbe made through the normal means of getting Koresh and the other cult \nmembers to come out. \n\t \n\t Number three, that the danger of their doing something \nto themselves or to others was likely to increase, not decrease, with \nthe passage of time.\n\t \n\t And number four, that they had reason to believe that \nthe children who were still inside the compound were being abused \nsignificantly, as well as being forced to live in unsanitary and \nunsafe conditions.\n\t \n\t So for those reasons, they wanted to move at that time. \nThe second question I asked the Attorney General is whether they had \ngiven consideration to all of the things that could go wrong and \nevaluated them against what might happen that was good. She said \nthat the FBI personnel on the scene and those working with them were \nconvinced that the chances of bad things happening would only \nincrease with the passage of time.\n\t \n\t The third question I asked was, has the military been \nconsulted? As soon as the initial tragedy came to light in Waco, \nthat's the first thing I asked to be done, because it was obvious \nthat this was not a typical law enforcement situation. Military \npeople were then brought in, helped to analyze the situation and some \nof the problems that were presented by it. And so I asked if the \nmilitary had been consulted. The Attorney General said that they \nhad, and that they were in basic agreement that there was only one \nminor tactical difference of opinion between the FBI and the military \n-- something that both sides thought was not of overwhelming \nsignificance.\n\t \n\t Having asked those questions and gotten those answers, I \nsaid that if she thought it was the right thing to do, that she \nshould proceed and that I would support it. And I stand by that \ntoday.\n\t \n\t Q\t Mr. President --\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: Wait. Go ahead.\n\t \n\t Q\t Can you address the widespread perception --\nreported widely, television, radio and newspapers -- that you were \ntrying somehow to distance yourself from this disaster?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: No, I'm bewildered by it. The only \nreason I made no public statement yesterday -- let me say -- the only \nreason I made no public statement yesterday is that I had nothing to \nadd to what was being said and I literally did not know until rather \nlate in the day whether anybody was still alive other than those who \nhad been actually seen and taken to the hospital or taken into \ncustody. It was purely and simply a question of waiting for events \nto unfold. \n\t \n\t There was -- I have -- I can't account for why people \nspeculated one way or the other, but I talked to the Attorney General \non the day before the action took place. I talked to her yesterday. \nI called her again late last night after she appeared on the Larry \nKing Show, and I talked to her again this morning. A President -- it \nis not possible for a President to distance himself from things that \nhappen when the federal government is in control.\n\t \n\t I will say this, however. I was, frankly, surprised \nwould be a mild word, to say that anyone that would suggest that the \nAttorney General should resign because some religious fanatics \nmurdered themselves. (Applause.) \n\t \n\t I regret what happened, but it is not possible in this \nlife to control the behavior of others in every circumstance. These \npeople killed four federal officials in the line of duty. They were \nheavily armed. They fired on federal officials yesterday repeatedly, \nand they were never fired back on. We did everything we could to \navoid the loss of life. They made the decision to immolate \nthemselves. And I regret it terribly, and I feel awful about the \nchildren. \n\t \n\t But in the end, the last comment I had from Janet Reno, \nis when -- and I talked to her on Sunday -- I said, now, I want you \nto tell me once more why you believe -- not why they believe -- why \nyou believe we should move now rather than wait some more. And she \nsaid, it's because of the children. They have evidence that those \nchildren are still being abused and that they're in increasingly \nunsafe conditions, and that they don't think it will get any easier \nwith time -- with the passage of time. I have to take their word for \nthat. So that is where I think things stand.\n\t \n\t Q\t Can we assume then that you don't think this was \nmishandled in view of the outcome, that you didn't run out of \npatience? And if you had it to do over again, would you really \ndecide that way?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: No -- well, I think what you can assume \nis just exactly what I announced today. This is a -- the FBI has \ndone a lot of things right for this country over a long period of \ntime. This is the same FBI that found the people that bombed the \nWorld Trade Center in lickety-split, record time. We want an inquiry \nto analyze the steps along the way. Is there something else we \nshould have known? Is there some other question they should have \nasked? Is there some other question I should have asked? Can I say \nfor sure that no one -- that we could have done nothing else to make \nthe outcome come different? I don't know that. That's why I want \nthe inquiry and that's why I would like to make sure that we have \nsome independent law enforcement people, not political people, but \ntotally non-political, outside experts who can bring to bear the best \nevidence we have. \n\t \n\t There is, unfortunately, a rise in this sort of \nfanaticism all across the world. And we may have to confront it \nagain. And I want to know whether there is anything we can do, \nparticularly when there are children involved. But I do think it is \nimportant to recognize that the wrong-doers in this case were the \npeople who killed others and then killed themselves.\n\t \n\t Q\t Mr. President, were there any other options \npresented to you for resolving this situation at any point from \nFebruary 28th until yesterday?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: Well, yes, I got regular reports all \nalong the way. There were lots of other options pursued. If you go \nback -- you all covered it very well. The FBI -- you did a very good \njob of it. I mean, the FBI and the other authorities there pursued \nany number of other options all along the way, and a lot of them \nearly on seemed to be working. Some of the children got out, some of \nthe other people left. There was a -- at one point, there seemed to \nbe some lines of communication opening up between Koresh and the \nauthorities. And then he would say things and not do them and things \njust began to spin downward. \n\t \n\t Whether there were other -- in terms of what happened \nyesterday, the conversation I had with the Attorney General did not \ninvolve other options except whether we should take more time with \nthe present strategy we were pursuing -- because they said they \nwanted to do this, because they thought this was the best way to get \npeople out of the compound quickly before they could kill themselves. \nThat's what they thought.\n\t \n\t Q\t Did the government know that the children did not \nhave gas masks?\n\t \n\t Q\t congressional hearings once the situation -- are \nyou in agreement with that?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: That's up to the Congress. They can do \nwhatever they want. But I think it's very important that the \nTreasury and Justice Departments launch this investigation and bring \nin some outside experts. And as I said in my statement, if any \ncongressional committees want to look into it, we will fully \ncooperate. There is nothing to hide here. This was probably the \nmost well-covered operation of its kind in the history of the \ncountry.\n\t \n\t Go ahead, Sarah.\n\t \n\t Q\t There are two questions I want to ask you. The \nfirst is, I think that they knew very well that the children did not \nhave gas masks while the adults did, so the children had no chance \nbecause this gas was very -- she said it was not lethal, but it was \nvery dangerous to the children and they could not have survived \nwithout gas masks. And on February 28th -- let's go back -- didn't \nthose people have a right to practice their religion?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: They were not just practicing their \nreligion, they were -- the Treasury Department believed that they had \nviolated federal laws, any number of them.\n\t \n\t Q\t What federal laws --\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: Let me go back and answer -- I can't \nanswer the question about the gas masks, except to tell you that the \nwhole purpose of using the tear gas was that it had been tested; they \nwere convinced that it wouldn't kill either a child or an adult but \nit would force anybody that breathed it to run outside. And one of \nthe things that I've heard -- I don't want to get into the details of \nthis because I don't know -- but one of the things that they were \nspeculating about today was that the wind was blowing so fast that \nthe windows might have been opened and some of the gas might have \nescaped and that may be why it didn't have the desired effect. \n\t \n\t They also knew, Sarah, that there was an underground \ncompound -- a bus buried underground where the children could be \nsent. And they were -- I think they were hoping very much that if \nthe children were not released immediately outside that the humane \nthing would be done and that the children would be sent someplace \nwhere they could be protected. \n\t \n\t In terms of the gas masks themselves, I learned \nyesterday -- I did not ask this fact question before -- that the gas \nwas supposed to stay active in the compound longer than the gas masks \nthemselves were to work. So that it was thought that even if they \nall had gas masks, that eventually the gas would force them out in a \nnonviolent, nonshooting circumstance.\n\t \n\t MS. MYERS: Last question.\n\t \n\t Q\t Mr. President, why are you still saying that --\n\t \n\t Q\t Could you tell us whether or not you ever asked \nJanet Reno about the possibility of a mass suicide? And when you \nlearned about the actual fire and explosion what went through your \nmind during those horrendous moments?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: What I asked Janet Reno is if they had \nconsidered all the worse things that could happen. And she said --\nand, of course, the whole issue of suicide had been raised in the \npublic -- he had -- that had been debated anyway. And she said that \nthe people who were most knowledgeable about these kinds of issues \nconcluded that there was no greater risk of that now than there would \nbe tomorrow or the next day or the day after that or at anytime in \nthe future. That was the judgment they made. Whether they were \nright or wrong, of course, we will never know. \n\t \n\t What happened when I saw the fire, when I saw the \nbuilding burning? I was sick. I felt terrible. And my immediate \nconcern was whether the children had gotten out and whether they were \nescaping or whether they were inside, trying to burn themselves up. \nThat's the first thing I wanted to know. \n\t \n\t Thank you.\n\t \n\t Q\t Mr. President, why are you still saying it was a \nJanet Reno decision? Isn't it, in the end, your decision?\n\t \n\t THE PRESIDENT: Well, what I'm saying is that I didn't \nhave a four- or five-hour, detailed briefing from the FBI. I didn't \ngo over every strategic part of it. It is a decision for which I \ntake responsibility. I'm the President of the United States and I \nsigned off on the general decision and giving her the authority to \nmake the last call. When I talked to her on Sunday, some time had \nelapsed. She might have made a decision to change her mind. I said, \nif you decide to go forward with this tomorrow, I will support you. \nAnd I do support her. \n\t \n\t She is not ultimately responsible to the American \npeople; I am. But I think she has conducted her duties in an \nappropriate fashion and she has dealt with this situation I think as \nwell as she could have. \n\t \n\t Thank you. (Applause.)", "This is my first time on the network, but I am very concerned with this\nincident in Waco. I will refrain from stating my opinions until after I have\nread the FAQ. Could someone tell me how to get this? I must say that I\nbelieve the Govt. was wrong in the actions that they took in this situation.", "\n This is the first I hear that Koresh refused to release\n someone. In fact, a lot of people, including children, came out\n during the stand-off.\n\n How do you know Koresh killed his followers? The FBI said\n he had had no such plans (and they had the place bugged), Koresh's \n attorney said the same thing, and the survivors claimed that the \n fire was started by goverment agents.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n-- \n------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDisclaimer: Opinions expressed are mine, not my employer's.", "\nFunny, the medical examiner today stated that there was no\nevidence ONE WAY or ANOTHER that there were bullet wounds --\nnot a single autopsy has been performed, so all reports are\ndeemed speculative. INCLUDING reports that there were NO\nbullet wounds.\n\n\nBefore long, I think all the kneejerk conspiracy theorists\nare going to start getting pretty pissed off at how easily\nthey mislead themselves. Also, pretty disappointed at\nbeing ignored by the coutnry.\n", "\nOh? How about the press? If the BATF & FBI were going to shoot people\nleaving a burning building, don't you think they would get rid of the\npress first?", "\n\n\n\nI wonder where you have been getting your mis-information from. Straight\nfrom the BATF itself?\n\nKoresh and his followers did not -capture- the compound a few years ago, it\nhas always been theirs. A few years ago their was an argument over who should\nlead the group, a gunfight erupted *one* person died. Koresh was charged\nwith the murder. When the sheriff came to arrest him, the sheriff knocked\non the dorr and showed Koresh the warrant (a tactic that the BATF might try\nlearning). Koresh and the others charged peacibly surrendered to the sherrif.\nA trial ensued, the others were found innocent, and the jury hung on Koresh's\ncharge.", "\n \n \n\n If they had been quiet there would have been no deaths?? I thought thier\nneighbors said that the Davidians never bothered them. Oh, well, that couldn't\nhave been your point, then. \n\n If they hadn't been stockpiling weapons, then the ATF wouldn't have felt \nthreatened and had to move in. Here's a newsflash: It isn't illegal to\nown more than one firearm. It isn't even illegal to own *lots* of firearms.\n \n They shot federales? The feds shot them, too. \n\n How about that staying inside thing? Here's another newsflash: sometimes\nthe government does nasty things to you that you don't deserve. Since\nthey were so nice to the Davidians the first time round, I can see why\nthe Davidians didn't surrender so easily, especially because they were\nexpecting the end of the world.\n\n-- \nAndrew Diederich diederic@spot.colorado.edu", "The Branch Davidians were not violent and were not planning to start\nviolence.\n \nWhen the BD compound was assaulted by the ATF the BD did fire back.\nBut they agreed to a cease fire and they allowed the ATF to care for\ntheir wounded. The BD even released the ATF agents they captured. It\nis clear from the release of the agents and allowing the ATF medical\nattention that the BD were not looking for trouble.\n \nIf the BD were violent they would have held the ATF agents as\nhostages. They would not have released them like they did. If they\nhad kept the agents hostage they could have used them as bargening\nchips for medical attention etc.\n \nA big thing is being made of the BD collection of weapons but no one\nhas shown that they had any plans to use them. It is also apparent\nthat the BD did not have any military training. If they had, they\ncould have dug bunkers and trenches and increased their\nfortifications. They could have shot out the lights and speakers. It\nappears that the BD were not violent, they shot back at the attacking\nATF agents out of panic. There were shots fired on the last day but\nthey were in response to the FBI attack on the compound with armor.\n \nAll the violence in Waco was initiated by the federal agents, not the\nBD.\n \n \n", "\n\n\tI HOPE THAT YOU ARE IN THE WAY OF THE NOBLE FEDERAL ENFORCERS and\nare blown away accidently by the governments goons.\n\nYou would cheer the death to 25 childern?\n\nThis is the sort of person who served as a death camp guard.", ": : Seems to me Koresh is yet another messenger that got killed\n: : for the message he carried. (Which says nothing about the \n: : character of the messenger.) I reckon we'll have to find out\n: : the rest the hard way.\n: : \n: \n: Koresh was killed because he wanted lots of illegal guns.", "\nOn TV news this morning it was reported that the local Texas authorities\nwho have reviewed the cases of the 21 children who were released\nearlier in the siege have found no evidence of physical or sexual\nabuse of any of the children. I don't recall if this was on Good\nMorning America or our local Texas TV station.", "\nIt's hard to know what/who to believe. However, the letter I received from\nthe BATF, in response to one I sent to Bentsen, said that there was a search\nwarrant AND an arrest warrant.", "\n\nI just got through listening to the 10 o'clock news on Channel 4 here in\nDallas. They trotted out a list of justifications produced by the ATF after\n\"months of investigation\" for their raid. \n\nI couldn't believe the junk on this list! For example, the BDs were accused\nof stockpiling a bunch of \"9mm and .223 ammunition that can be used in M15\nand M16 assault rifles\". Imagine that--they had ammunition! They also had\naluminum dust! (Yeah, it's a component of thermite, but so far I haven't\nheard that it's illegal to take a grinder to the aluminum lawn\nfurniture...) The only thing on the list that could conceivably have been\nillegal was an M-79 grenade launcher. (Anybody know about this?)\n\nMonths of investigation! For this 80+ people died!\n", "Most of you will have probably seen the news by the time you read this,\nbut the Branch Davidian compound is no more. This morning about 6:00,\nthe feds punched holes in the compound walls by using a tank. They \nthen started using non-lethal tear gas. Shortly after noon, 2 cult\nmembers were seen setting fire to the compound. So far, about 20-30\npeople have been seen outside the compound. The fate of the other 60 or\n70 people is unknown, neither is the fate of the 17 children that were\ninside. The compound did burn to the ground.\n\nKoresh, who at times has claimed to be the Messiah, but then backed off\nand only claimed to be a prophet, had promised several times to come\nout peacefully if his demands were met. First, he demanded that his\nmessage be broadcast on the radio, which it was, but he didn't come out.\nHe claimed to be waiting for a message from God. Finally, he said that\nGod told him that he needed to decipher the mystery of the 7 seals in\nRevelation, and when he was finished, he'd come out. He finished the\nfirst one, but didn't do any more work that anyone knows of since then.\nThe federal agents did warn him that if they didn't come out, they \nwould be subjected to tear gas.\n\nI think it's really sad that so many people put their faith in a mere\nman, even if he did claim to be the son of God, and/or a prophet. I\nthink it underscores the importance of putting you faith only in\nthings that are eternal and knowing for yourself what the Scriptures\nsay and what they mean, instead of relying on others to do it for you,\neven if those others are learned and mean well.", "What happened in Waco is not the fault of the BATF. If they would of\nhad the proper equipment and personal then they could of captured the\ncompound on the initial assault and none of this would of happened.\n\nThe BATF needs more people, better weapons and more armored\ntransports. When they meet hostile fire they should be able to use\nmore force instead of retreating to a stand off. If you are going to\ndo a job then do it right. The BATF is there to protect us and they\nmust have the proper equipment and people to do the job.\n\nWith the WoD and the increased crime in the streets the BATF is needed\nmore now then ever. If they blast away a few good fokes then that is\nthe price we all have to pay for law and order in this country. Look\nat all the good people that died in wars to protect this great country\nof ours.", "\nI have not made up my mind about Waco, but there sure seems to be a group of \ndevoted government following fanatics willing to believe whatever that \ngovernment wants to tell them, without any shred of doubt, nor thought of thier \nown. They sure get shrill whenever their belief structure is being shaken.\n\nKinda reminds you of the BDs, doesn't it?\n\nJim\n--\njmd@handheld.com", "Everyone is complaining about the debacle in Waco. It is hard to \nunderstand all this angst. What happend there is nothing less than\nwhat we wanted to happen. Why all the sour grapes ?\n\nBATF was looking for a propaganda event to counteract their impending\nbudget cuts ... the attendance of the press at the initial big\ncommando raid is proof. It would have been ever so easier to grab\nKoresh and his central followers as they shopped in Waco. Alas, no\npropaganda value there. \n\nThe FBI screwed-up big time, all the time. They should have never allowed\nthe situation to drag out like that. A quick second assault, before the\nBDs could decide on a strategy, would have been the better plan. \n\nThe BDs themselves were the biggest screw-ups though. They imagined\nthat US law and US law-enforcement had no jurisdiction within their\nlittle 'country'. WRONG ! They had no right whatsoever to fire on\nthe BATF, and if they mistook their identity initially, they should\nhave surrendered at once when they did realize who they were. If the\nBDs had a problem with the warrants, they take it to court, just like\nthe rest of us. If they wanted full-auto weapons, they could have\nobtained the proper permits, just like the rest of us would need to\ndo. What they may NOT do is decide for themselves what US law applies\nto themselves and which does not. They get their chance like the rest\nof us - at the voting booth. \n\nIf the BATF and FBI have become latter-day Gestapo, then they have\nbecome that way because WE have desired them to be so. We get to\nvote on laws, and on the lawmakers. By our choices over the years,\nwe have approved the creation and form of the BATF and FBI. When\nthe FBI was out chasing 'pinkos', the general public didn't seem\nto mind a bit of extra-constitutional activity. When the BATF is\nraiding militant black organizations, we don't mind the heavy hand.\nWhen the FBI is dicking around with the rights of potheads, the\npublic doesn't mind. Suddenly, when we see a bit of ourselves in\nthe current 'enemy' choosen by these agencies, we get all bent out\nof shape. SUPRISE ! You reap what you sow.\n\nWaco was an encapsulation of the All-American experience - religious\nfanaticism, militaristic thinking and overwhelming violence. Don't\nblame it on 'them', the FBI and BATF. They were just acting within\nthe parameters we have set over the years. We made 'them'. We ARE 'them'.", "\n\n Give ME a break, chum. Are you telling me that Clinton and\n Reno DID NOT KNOW that the BATF actions were ILLEGAL, adn\n in VIOLATION of their warrant?\n\n\n", "\nI really don't understand all this! I watched on satellite network feeds as \nperhaps 90 people died before my eyes, while the two Huey's fanned the flames, \nand the FBI stopped the firetrucks at the gate. \n\nSomething was VERY wrong with that scene.\n\nPerhaps if I'd watched RAMBO movies, I might've been dulled to the pain of \nfellow humans dying.\n\nThank GOD I still feel. I'm very sorry for you who don't. For you who think \nthey got what they deserved. Can you really believe that? Even if Koresh was \nthe sadistic mad man they said he was, did the others deserve his fate? If, \nin fact, he was mad, wasn't that even more reason to believe he duped his \nfollowers, and therefore they were innocent, brainwashed, victims? Is there \nany scenaro that justifies all that death?\n\nAnd if not, it is clear that the deaths would not have occured if the BATF has \nnot FUCKED UP initially, and now the FBI got impaitent and pushed Korech over \nthe edge.\n\nAnd that's if you buy the latest version of the \"story\" hook, line, and sinker. \nI have believed all along that they could not let them live, the embarrassment \nto the BATF and the FBI would've been too severe.\n\nRemember, this was a suspicion of tax-evasion warrant. There were no \nwitnesses, except the FBI. All information filtered through the FBI. All they \nhad to do was allow one remote controlled pool camera be installed near the \nbuilding, and the press could've done their job, and would've been able to back \nthe FBI's story with close up video, while incurring no risk to the press. \nUnless they did not want the public to see something. The complete lack of any \nother source of information other than the FBI really causes me concern. \n\n\nSick to my stomach, and getting sicker from all the Government apologists\n--\njmd@handheld.com", "\nFrom what I saw of the videotape, there was an explosion which looked\nmore like one due to propane rather than (official version)\nammunition.\n\n\nIf only we could be certain that the hard evidence will be released.", " > unsealed, it is CLEAR that Clinton and Reno supported an\n > ILLEGAL raid. Did they not KNOW this?\n\n\n\n > NO authority to use helicopters.\n\n\n\n\tSorry, I missed all this! Can you please give an update on\n\tthe warrant? I hadn't heard that it was unsealed. There\n\twas no authority for a \"no-knock?\" This is news. How about\n\tan OK for a wiretap?", "\nAnd who is responsible for it not happening?\nCertainly not the children. Koresh was calling the shots. He was \ntalking with his lawyer and the FBI. Since others were released safely, \nthere is no sane reason for keeping the children inside the compound.\n\n\nNot at all. Are you a Koresh worshiper?\n\n\nThanks for my laugh of the day! Definitely a very silly supposition.\n\n\nI would if I could. The news show that showed the lengthy excerpts also \nhad interviews with the filmmaker who made the documentary who basically \nconfirmed what was shown in the excerpts from the time he spent at the \ncompound in 1992.\n\n\nI believe that this was reported by local radio reporters on site.\nA fire started in a three story tower at the same time as the two \nstory window shown on the tv coverage.\n\n\nI thought about mentioning how Reagan and the military treated the press \nin Grenada and how that set the precedent, but decided it wasn't worthy \nof discussion. If the news reporter got shot, you can bet his family \nwould sue the government for letting him into the danger area.\n\nThe root cause of suspicion in my mind is why 100 people wouldn't flee \na building that had numerous exits during the 30 minutes time it took \nto burn down. Or why didn't they flee hours earlier when the tear gas was \nfirst introduced? I can find no rational explanation for their behavior.\n", "\nm> The latest news seems to be that Koresh will give himself up once he's\nm> finished writing a sequel to the Bible.\n\nAlso, it's the 16th now. Can the Feds get him on tax evasion? I don't\nremember hearing about him running to the Post Office last night.\n", "\n\nOn Ted Koppel last night, the ubiquitous Australian woman claimed that\nKoresh trained the women (years ago) how to commit suicide by swallowing\ncyanide or by putting a gun in their mouth. With cyanide on hand, why\nchoose to roast yourself? There are too many unanswered questions here.\n-- ", "\nFor starters, they could have gone on waiting and negotiating. The Davidians\nweren't going anywhere, and their supplies had to be limited. Large, perhaps,\nbut limited. If they had simply fired the compound by themselves without\ngov't tanks smashing down their walls, then at least the gov't would not be\nguilty of having _again_ used an inappropriate level of force, and would have\nbeen able to use the meantime to continue to pressure and negotiate. No, they\nwould not have looked good on the news in six months or a year. But they sure\nas hell don't look very good now.\n\nLarry Smith (smith@ctron.com) No, I don't speak for Cabletron. Need you ask?", "\nAs I understand it was considered unsafe for the tv networks to get\nany closer. Surely the networks can judge the risks of reporting\nfor themselves. I haven't noticed CNN being banned from Baghdad\nhotels yet despite the (all too real) risk of having a cruise\nmissile land in the lobby. Incidentally has that ever been explained\nor are we to assume that out of the whole of the city an off-course\nmissile just happened to hit that hotel at a probability of about\n1 in some very large number?\n\nUnsafe for who I wonder?", "\nProper counter to this claim: \"Forensic analysis of the WTC bomb by\nmeans of taggants would have been as impossible as semantic analysis\nof NYT editorials by means of taggants -- the difficulty in both cases\nbeing to have persuaded the bull to consume the taggants before \nproduction of either item.\"\n-- ", "Apparently needing to clarify his comments from Thursday, Dr. Nizam\nPlawaby (spelling?), the Medical Examiner for Tarrant County, Texas,\nwho has authority in the Waco deaths, stated that since no autopsies\nhad been performed, there is no evidence for bullet wounds, or \nevidence against bullet wounds.\n\nJanet Reno also stated that she had never been told of bullet wounds\nby anyone in the Justice Department. \n", "garrod@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (David Garrod) writes...\n\n\n\n\n\tIt was on CBS yesterday. The explanation is reasonable enough.\n\tThen again, if the fire was accidental, why didn't more\n\tpeople get out?\n\n\n\tThat's true. I think there were several Australians in the \n\tgroup as well.\n\n _____ _____\n \\\\\\\\\\\\/ ___/___________________\n Mitchell S Todd \\\\\\\\/ / _____/__________________________\n________________ \\\\/ / mst4298@zeus._____/.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'_'_'_/\n\\_____ \\__ / / tamu.edu _____/.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'_'_/\n \\__________\\__ / / _____/_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_/\n \\_ / /__________/\n \\/____/\\\\\\\\\\\\\n \t\t\t \\\\\\\\\\\\", "\n\nNot when the power has been cut off for weeks on end. Any generators are\nno doubt out of fuel, too. So all they would have is wood stoves and\nkerosene lanters (maybe). It is alleged that the tanks pushing in the\nwalls knocked over the lanters, starting the fire. Remember, the FBI\nhad bugs which they even used (illegally) to eavesdrop on private\nconversations with the lawyers. If a suicide order were given they\nWOULD HAVE KNOWN IT IN TIME. If the Feds had been concerned they would\nhave had emergency equipment ready. Not an hour or so later, not\nleaving the water THEY TURNED OFF, off. They could have turned it back\non. They just didn't wanna. Scores to settle...\n\n", "God forgive me for being an American who pays taxes to a government\nthat commits atrocities like the Waco Massacre of 1993.\n-- \nDave Feustel N9MYI ", "Well, the question of why fire equipment took so long to reach the \ncompound has been answered. ABC aired a report including the 911 tapes \nfrom Monday. The FBI called 911 within 4 minutes of the fire's breakout. \nUnfortunately, dispatch of vehicles outside the Waco city limits \nrequired approval of a deputy chief, who was not available (literally \nout to lunch?); the 911 operator desperately called around to local \ncommunity volunteer fire departments to get something out there. By \nthe time trucks arrived 27 minutes later, the whole complex was aflame \nand it was clearly too little, too late; there were just two pumpers \nand no water supply. The FBI made another call requesting a tank truck, \nbut the Waco department apparently depended on hydrants and did not \nhave one. Though clearly unwilling to risk firemen's lives in the \nline of fire, it seems they might have done so had there been sufficient \nequipment and water to make a difference.\n\nThey even aired a tape of a woman who called Waco 911 from Georgia \nasking if anything was being done. Civic-minded, but probably \nirresponsible; if everyone watching television did that, no local \ncalls could get through.\n\nABC also aired the comments of an independent fire investigator who \nviewed tapes from more than one side of the compound (not just the \nstandard \"pool shot\"), and agreed that the fire a) must have been \nstarted in at least 3 places, and b) must have had an accelerant \nto spread so fast.\n\nNeither of these is conclusive proof that the Koresh crowd offed \nthemselves more than the FBI offed them, but it's a heck of a lot \nstronger proof than some of the \"theories\" floating around the net.\n\nScore 2 FBI, 0 Branch Davidians. Or is that -89 Branch Davidians?\n", "...\n\nThat people are at risk and that some die during a hostage situation might\nbe considered an acceptable scenario in storming a compound. \n\nWhen EVERYONE dies (save for nine people), including twenty children, the \noutcome must be considered a failure.\n\nNow was the failure due to unforseeable circumstances, incompetence, or\nnegligence? From the double talk and multiple stories I've seen on the news\ncoming from the FBI and Reno I find \"it was an honest mistake\" hard to swallow\n\nLet's hope they get their stories straight for the second round of questions.\n\n", "\n\nSeeing as how people are willing to quote the FBI quoting cultists\nwho just yesterday were deranged and not to be trusted (hmm the FBI\nor the cultists...) I think I'll quote the BBC quoting (actually voice\ninterview) one of the two British survivors. He claimed that the fire\nstarted when the tanks caused an internal wooden wall/roof to collapse\nknocking over kerosene lamps and that they had no suicide plan.\n\nMaybe true, partly true, or false.", "\n\n\tNo chance. If that CS ignited at all, it would have been\nquite similar to a grain bin explosion. Explosion, I note. The\nentire compound would have been leveled, not merely burned. As\nthere was no explosion, there was no CS ignition causing the fire.\n\n\tNote: at five miles a decent grain elevator explosion will\nknock you on your butt and your ears will ring for days. I speak\nfrom experience here.", "\nThat doesn't count as getting rid of the press. Getting rid of the press\nwould mean getting them far enough away so that they wouldn't be able to\nsee what is going on.", "Okay, lets get the record straight on the Livermore gas gun. \nThe project manager is Dr. John Hunter, and he works for the\nLaser group at Livermore. What, you may ask, does gas guns\nhave to do with lasers? Nothing, really, but the gun is physically\nlocated across the road from the Free Electron Laser building,\nand the FEL building has a heavily shielded control room (thick walls)\nfrom which the gun firings are controlled. So I suspect that the\noffice he works for is an administrative convenience.\n\nI visited Hunter at the beginning of Feb. and we toured the gun.\nAt the time I was working on gas gun R&D at Boeing, where I work,\nbut I am now doing other things (helping to save the space station),\n\nThe gun uses a methane-air mixture, which is burned in a chamber\nabout 200 ft long by 16 inch ID (i.e. it looks like a pipe).\nThe chamber holds a 1 ton piston which is propelled at several\nhundred m/s down the chamber. On the other side of the piston\nis hudrogen gas, initially at room temperature andsome tens\nof atmospheres.\n\nThe piston compresses and heats the hydrogen ahead of it until\na stainless steel burst diaphragm ruptures, at around 50,000 psi.\nThe barrel of the gun is about 100 feet long and has a 4 inch\nbore. It is mounted at right angles to the chamber (i.e. they\nintersect). This was done so that in the future, the barrel\ncould be raised and the gun fired into the air without having to\nmove the larger and heavier chamber. The projectile being used\nin testing is a 5 kg cylinder of Lexan plastic, 4 in in diameter\nand about 50 cm long.\n\nAll of the acceleration comes from the expansion of the hydrogen\ngas from 50,000 psi downwards until the projectile leaves the\nbarrel. The barrel is evacuated, and the end is sealed with a\nsheet of plastic film (a little thicker than Saran wrap). The\nplastic is blown off by the small amount of residual air trapped\nin the barrel ahead of the projectile. \n\nThe gun is fired into a bunker filled with sandbags and plastic\nwater jugs. In the early testing fragments of the plastic\nprojectile were found. At the higher speeds in later testing,\nthe projectile vaporizes.\n\nThe testing is into a bunker because the Livermore test range is\nabout 3 miles across, and the projectile would go 100-200 km\nif fired for maximum range. The intent is to move the whole gun\nto Vandenberg AFB after the testing is complete, where they can\nfire into the Pacific Ocean, and use the tracking radar at VAFB\nto follow the projectiles.\n\nThe design goal of the gun is to throw a 5 kg projectile at 4\nkm/s (half of orbital speed). So far they have reached 2 km/s,\nand the gun is currently down for repairs, as on the last test\nthey blew a seal and damaged some of the hardware (I think it\nhad to do with the methane-air more detonating than burning, but\nI haven't had a chance to talk to Hunter directly on this).\n\nThere are people waiting to test scramjet components in this\ngun by firing then out of the gun into the air (at Mach 12=\n4 km/s), since the most you can get in wind tunnels is Mach 8.\n\nThis gun cost about 4 million to develop, and is basically\na proof-of-concept for a bigger gun capable of firing useful-\nsized payloads into space. This would require on the order of\n100 kg projectiles, which deliver on the order of 20 kg\nuseful payload to orbit.\n\nDani Eder\n", "Our Lord and Savior David Keresh has risen!\n\n\n\tHe has been seen alive!\n\n\n\tSpread the word!\n\n\n\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------", "\nNo, and Im especially unhappy that these 70+ people died in an assault\non private property with government armored vehicles.\n\nI am also unhappy (or actually, very suspicious) that the FBI was dismissing\nout of hand any chances that they might have accidentally set the blaze \nthemselves. I mean, I guess we are just supposed to believe that\nramming modified tanks into the walls of a building and injecting\ntoxic gases into the building are just routine procedures, no WAY\nanything could go wrong.\n\n", "\n\nThe latest news I saw was that two of the eight known survivors (not NO\nSURVIVORS!!! as you so rudely put in all caps) said they started the\nfire.\n\nI won't go on with the things the wacko of Waco did.\n", "Boston Globe, Wednesday April 21 1993\n\ncol. 4 \"Bodies found in ruins as FBI defends raid on cult ranch\"\ncol. 5 \"Clinton blames Koresh, orders probe of siege\"\ncol. 2 \"The children: panws in a horrifying game\"\n\npg. 18, col. 1, Editorial page \n\t\"Judgment at Waco\"\n\n\tNow the scientific and political scrutiny of the\nhorror show in Waco begins, though nothing can\nundo the tragedy that might have been prevented \nthere.\n\tForensic experts will study the rubble and\nashes of the Branch Davidian compound, where at\nleast 85 people, including 24 children, perished in\nsmoke and fire caused by theapocalyptic visions of\na manipulative madman AND A STUNNING LAPSE IN\nJUDGMENT BY FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS.\n [emphasis added by me]\n\tInvestigators will re-create conditions at the\ncompound and identify accelerants and other fac-\ntors fueling the inferno. That is their strong suit.\n\tBut the public must question why agents of the\nFederal Bureau of Investigation lacked the oper-\national skill and teh behavioral insight to resolve\nthe 51-day standoff free of flames and fury.\n\tThe loss of life most clearly reflects the demen-\ntia of cult leader David Koresh, whose personal\ndelusiosn are now seared on the public conscious-\nness. His assembly of Davidians had stockpiles of\narms--and had used them. LIttle in the way of\nrationality could be expected from Koresh, a self-\nconfsesed \"sinner without equal.\"\n\tWhat continues to mystify are th eactions of\nfederal agents, who bungled the case from the\nstart. The misadventure began on Feb. 28 when\n100 agents of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, To-\nbacco and Firearms storemd the compound, intent\non seizing Koresh and a cache of automatic weap-\nons. Four agents and an estimated six cult mem-\nbers died inteh ensuing gun battle. Earlier\noppor-tunities to isolate and arrest Koresh outside the\ncomplex had not been adequately explored.\n\tAuthorities prepared a siege and resolved that\nthose deaths would be the last. Fifty-one days into \nthe siege there was no public outcry to storm the\ncompound.\n\tIt had been correctly perceived that the chil-\ndren inside \"Rancho Apocalypse\" were essentially \nhostages. With their lives at stake, there was no\nreason for the government to be impatient. The\ngovernment's superior firepower, control of water\nand utilities and freedom of movement created the\nconditions for a belated but bloodless resolution.\n\tNeither Attorney General Janet Reno nor the\nFBI has provided a sigle compelling reason for\nabandondoning the course of patience.\n\tIf intelligence was accurate and Koresh was\ngrowing increasingly violent and bizarre, it is diffi-\ncult to see how a tear-gas attack launched by an\nM-60 combat vehicle would clear his mind. If re-\nports of escalating child abuse were accurate, they\nwould have to be weighted against the potential for\neve ngreated hamr.\n\n\netc etc tec....\n[paragraphs, 2.5 paragraphs deleted]\n\nBut some of the responsibility rests with Clinton,\nand inexperienced president who did not pay\nenough attention to the life-and -death decisions\nbeing made on WAco.\n\tIf Reno is to be faulted for anything, ti would\nbe for her overreliance on the judgment of law en-\nforcement officers--a common problem among\nprosecutors.\n\tFull investigations into th eWaco tragedy must\nbe conducted by both the executive and legislative\nbranches. The first step is to verify how the blaze \nstarted. Though apportioning blame will play a \nrole, it is of greater importnace to find strategies\nto elude the fire next time.", "\nI seem to recall graphic news file of buddhist monks setting themselves on fire\nin the streets of Saigon. Yes, its a horrible way to go, but apparently not\nso horrible that someone with enough religious conviction might not be able to \ncarry it through. And, since they've discovered bullet wounds in a couple of \nthe bodies from the compound, there is the possiblity that those with the will power to self immolate also had the will power to take out the ones who had\nless constitutional fortitude. Then again, maybe the FBI ran in while the fire\nwas raging, executed those two, and ran out again.", "\n\nIf they hadn't killed the ATF people in the original raid, I think I would \nlaugh my ass off. (Actually, to be honest, I still might.)", "\nThen post what the press has said, not what you wished they said.\nThe Medical Examiner has refuted the FBI \"facts\" and if you don't\nbelieve someone who has a LOT more reason to be impartial then \nwhat do you have to say for yourself.\n\n\nI was willing to grant this for sake or argument until I read the\nfollowing.\n\nThe FACTS as reported by the press and impartial government\nsources support ME.\n\n\nThere is NO testimony, at the press conference, the FBI said they\nhad NO testimony, the SURVIVORS as reported by CNN and Newsday\nwire service said that ALL the survivors gave consistent stories\nrefuting the FBI. They were lighting and heating with kerosine.\nAre you trying to PROVE you're an idiot.\n\n\n\n\nThen open your eyes and ears, at least 3 of those 4 sources have\nreported your full of shit.\n\n\n", "Is there evidence independent of the FBI that indicates that the Branch\nDavidians set the fire? What have the survivors said? Did the press see\nanything?\n\nThere is, unfortunately, precedent for the U.S. government saving children by\nroasting them alive. (There is precedent for religious self-imolation\nas well.)", "\n\tWhat I saw on TV and what you claim are two different things. The\nDavidians did not start shooting until after the BATF lobbed a couple\ngenades in the windows and started shooting themselves.\n\n\n\tEASY! If you see federal agents in body armor with sub machine guns\ngoing in throught windows, that is a No-Knock warrant. Also since the \nvideotape shows the BATF throwing grenades before the BD's etunred fire, \nyou can safely assume that they didn't ring the doorbell.\n\n\nP.Vasilion,", "Flash over is a frequent occurrence with indoor fires. A fire will\nstart small and in one location and heat the air. The temperature in\nthe room builds up and then everything inflammable in the room catches\nfire at once.\n \nThis may have occurred in the BD compound, I have heard reports that\nthe windows were covered which would permit a fire to start unnoticed\nby those outside the compound. When the fire got big enough, and\nbroke through the walls, it appeared to be started in two places but\nwas really one big fire.\n \nBecause of the large quantities of tear gas inserted into the building\nit is possible that many of the women and children were in a room free\nof tear gas they would try to seal the door to keep out the tear gas.\nWhen they learned that a fire had broken out it was too late for them\nto escape. They were trapped by the flames in their safe room.\n \nI find it hard to believe that the FBI was not recording the final\nassault. I think that they would have wanted to have tapes to show\ntheir agents of the the FBI overcoming the \"forces of evil\", aka\nthe Branch Davidians. The tapes would also allow the FBI to prove\nthat they were not using excessive force.\n \n", "This is the AP story from Fri morning.\n\nAs the walls came tumbling down and tear gas filled the air, cult leader\nDavid Koresh sprang into action. He left his third-floor bedroom and began\nlooking around the house, making sure women and children were secure and \nchecking that everyone had their gas masks on properly. Within hours, the \ncompound became an inferno. Nine Branch Davidians excaped.\n This is their story, gleaned from lawyers who spoke with six of them\nwho are jailed on charges that include conspiracy and murder. That day the \nsix said a portable radio offered the only contact with the outside world \nsince Koresh's right-hand man, Steve Schneider, ripped out the compounds's \nphone line after FBI agents called before dawn Monday saying this was the\ncults last chance: Come out or prepare to get forced out.\n They kept their word. By dawn, tanks were battering the Mount Carmel\ncompound, punching for hours to creat holes for tear gas to enter. The BD\nmeanwhile proceeded with their daily routines. Strapped into gas masks, the\nwomen did laundry. Others read Bibles in their rooms. The 17 children, all\nunder 10, remained by their mothers' sides. Still, it was hard to ignore what \nwas happening around them. Each time a tank rammed the poorly-constructed building\nit shook violently. Cult members dodges falling gypsum wallboard and doors.\nHundreds of gas canisters hurled in from the armored vehicles were filling\nthe air with noxious fumes. The flying canisters were more frightening than\nthe tanks. At least one man was hit in the face. The gas began filling the air,\ndriven by heavy gusts of wind coming through windows and the holes the tanks\nmade. Scattered throughout the house, the cult members made no efforts to\ngather. Then the FBI sent in its biggest weapon -- a massive armored vehicle\nheaded for a chamber, lined with cinder blocks, where authorities hoped to \nfind Koresh and Schneider and fire tear gas directly at them.\n Here the cult members' story diverges from the government's version. The\nFBI says cult members set fires in three places. But each of the six cult\nmembers, in separate discussions with lawyers, consistently gave versions\nat odds with the FBI's account. They say the tank flattened a barrel of \npropane, spilling its contents. And as the tank thundered through the house,\nit tipped over lit lanterns, spitting flames that ignited the propane and\nother flammables. The home of used lumber, plywood, and wallboard tacked \ntogether with tar paper was vulnerable. The building erupted. Nine BD's\nescaped jumping through windows and dashing through other openings. Others\ndied groping in the blackness.", "\nFlame on!!\n\nIs this guy serious????\n\nIf he would ever really pay attention to the news (oops I forgot that the media\n for the most part loves to jump right on top of a story before all the facts \n are known, as well as to manipulate what we see and thus what we believe). \n Any ways one of Koresh's DEVOTED followers that DID I REPEAT DID survive this\n \"GENOCIDAL MASS-SLAUGHTER OF INNOCENT PEOPLE\". Besides there are nine \n survivors in the burn-unit of the local hospital and was reported that David\n was in one of the towers when the shit hit the fan. Besides, a majority of \n these children were children that he was supposed to have been the father of,\n this then makes them bastard children to a sacraligious zeloit (sp). Also\n someone should have told David and his followers that if they can't the heat\n then they should stay out of the kitchen!! (pun intended)\n\nFlame off\n\n\" Aaah Daniaalson yah wanna fight, fight me!!\" ", "\nFunny, Brent, but so far we have heard two versions of the \"facts:\"\n\n1) What the government says. This includes what the government says that\n two survivors have said.\n\n2) What Koresh's lawyer (who was actually inside the compound) says,\n including what he says that most of the survivors have said.\n\nStrange, but they seem to disagree in most important particulars.\n\nIf anyone has actually seen news reports of any of the survivors\nspeaking first-hand, feel free ot pitch in. I may have missed it.\nBut my money is that their story will sound a hell of a lot like\ncase 2, and not at all like case 1.\n-- ", "\n\n\n\n\nJason - I've heard the people who are talking about this dismissed as\nconspiracy nuts, but nobody seems to be talking about a conspiracy, at\nleast at the beginning. There were a lot of bad decisions that went into\nthis tragedy, and some people may now be taking some serious evasive\naction to avoid being held responsible for the unexpected results of\nthose bad decisions. Actually, the only ones I see that are tied into\na conspiracy theory are the ones raving about deranged cultists with\nstockpiles of weapons and suicide pacts.\n\n\n\nI think there are a lot of us that have been following this pretty closely\nfrom the beginning, and we woud probably agree that this tragedy was more\nthe result of stupidity than malice.\n\n\n\n\n", "\n\ndead? I saw David Koresh at a local 7-11......\n", "Just to remark that I have heard that David Koresh has risen from \nthe dead. I dont know if it is true or not, but this is what I have\nbeen told. What do you guys think?", "\nThis whole thread is rediculous. Who cares if they had a stove going\nor not. Does it matter if they had a stove burning, or lanterns\nburning, or candles burning, or someone smoking, etc, etc, etc. The\npremise is that the FBI was filling the house with napalm so that it\nwould catch fire. This is crazy. FBI was NOT PUMPING NAPALM into the\nDavidians home. You will have to have pretty damn strong evidence to\nconvince me of that.\n\nI can believe mass suicide/murder by Koresh. I can believe an\naccident by the Davidians. I can believe an accident by the FBI. I\ncan easily believe mass stupidity on all sides but I can not believe\nthat the FBI lit this fire intentionally. No way.\n", " \nWell, for one thing most, if not all the Dividians (depending on whether\nthey could show they acted in self-defense and there were no illegal\nweapons), could have gone on with their life as they were living it.\nNo one was forcing them to give up their religion or even their\nlegal weapons. The Dividians had survived a change in leadership\nbefore so even if Koresch himself would have been convicted and\nsent to jail, they still could have carried on.\n \nI don't think the Dividians were insane, but I don't see a reason\nfor mass suicide (if the fire was intentional set by some of the\nDividians.) We also don't know that, if the fire was intentionally\nset from inside, was it a generally know plan or was this something\nonly an inner circle knew about, or was it something two or three\nfelt they had to do with or without Koresch's knowledge/blessing, etc.?\nI don't know much about Masada. Were some people throwing others over?\nDid mothers jump over with their babies in their arms?", "\nI think it was - he went into town fairly often, and was known to go\njogging. This was even during the 9 month period when he was being\nwatched. One wonders why the BATF went ahead, when they had been warned\naccording to an interview with a BATF agent, that the BD were expecting\nthem, and why they had the media in tow. Almost looks like they wanted\nto have a romp and a nice show for the media, and it all went to hell...\n\nHe was also never known to act violently. He has always surrendered\npeacefully before (but of course, the warrants were served peacefully).\nHe has been tried on the allegations before and found NOT GUILTY.\n\nThe justification for this mess was he was alleged to have purchased\n$200,000.00 worth of guns and stuff (over an undetermined time period).\nLast I heard this is not a crime, or indication of one. I know of an\nINDIVIDUAL with that much value in guns. SHould he get a fly-thru-the-door\nshoot-first-talk-later raid? (grenades are shooting first, nobody I\nknow of can say 'oh, thats only a stun grenade, thats OK...'). Can you?\nI sure cannot. Also, one cannot be sure that 200K figure is not calculated\nlike the Feds calculate the value of a drug siezure... Even so, it\nis a 'so what' issue... He wasn't bothering anyone (besides the\nBATF who doesn't like folks other than themselves or other govt\npeople having any effective guns)... and having an unapproved\nreligeous group. Are we required to not offend the BATF these\ndays? I sure hope it hasn't come to THAT...\n\nMY point is, it DOES NOT ADD UP. We need an independent investigation,\nand NOW. Assuming other than FBI/BATF are preserving the evidence.\n\n\nThey had the premisis bugged. I am inclined to think a further wait\nwould have saved lives. One wonders why they didn't have emergency\ngear on hand when they moved, and why they didn't turn on the water\nwhen a fire was observed, instead of saying \"aw, gee, there is no water\".\n\nWhy so long before the fire gear even SHOWED UP - like after the building\nhad pretty much finished burning? Fireman safety? Isn't that a decision\nthe firefighters should be allowed to make? No water? Why didn't\nthe Feds TURN IT BACK ON? They sure could cut it off quickly enough...\n\nOne does wonder about the possibility of 'settling scores'...\n\n\nWhat does 'taking responsibility' mean? You think she is going to be\nfacing jail time if the acts were found to be criminal? You think\nshe is going to face ANY repercussions if the FBI/BATF are found to\nhave acted wrongly? I don't. It is a nice PR gimmick, though.\n\nI am not assured there will even be a serious independent investigation\nfor possible wrongdoing or criminal acts on the part of the BATF or FBI.\nI expect to hear \"they are our best law enforcement. They wouldn't do\nanything like that - NO WAY. OUT of the QUESTION. End of issue\".\n\nI want to see an INDEPENDENT investigation, with full prosecuting and\nsubpoena powers. With felony prosecution where felony acts are found.\nFat chance, I bet. I bet the Justice Dept will have an internal\ninvestigation which will turn up at most 'poor judgement'.\n\nI hope I am wrong, that this is gone over with a fine tooth comb.\n", "\nWhere were you brought up? In the former USSR? Is Innocent until proven \nguilty by a jury of your peers, NOT Dan Rather, dead in this country? Seems \nso. Is tax evasion, the only charge brought against the BDs, punishable by \ndeath in this country, now?\n\n\nNot really. You are a blind idiot.\n\n\n\"Not sure\", yet you condem them to death for it? If the BATF had stayed home, \nall would be alive, now. So who murdered who?\nYou have a short memory.\n\nnext.\n\nSleep well, tonite, heartless idiot. Sleep the sleep of the simple-minded.\n\nI shall weep for my country, myself.\n\n\nI'm short of patience tonite, but rabid dogs deserve and get better treatment \nthan the BDs got.\n\nJim\n--\njmd@handheld.com", "Mark 'Mark' Sachs , representing the Students for \n\n\n\n\nWell, I only saw it start in one place. A tank punched a hole in a wall,\nand as it withdrew flames came out and spread quickly in the direction that\na 30+ mph wind was blowing. I saw a diagram in USA Today yesterday, and\nfires started at 2 of the 3 holes that the tanks made. A terrible, negligent\naccident.\n\n\n\n\nMaybe they couldn't. I've often marvelled at how people could get burned alive\nin the upstairs of a 2 story house on fire, but it happens all the time.\nWhat if they were in sealed rooms, trying to avoid the gas, and didn't know\nabout the fire until it surrounded them? Remember the Israelis hiding in\nsealed rooms during Desert Storm to avoid gas-bearing Scuds?\n\nCripes, Mark, are you REALLY a college student? Maybe you ought to stop\nworrying about increased beverage access and start clearing your head.\nEver heard of questioning authority? \n\n\n\nOK, I'll buy that. You _do_ seem totally clueless...\n\n\ncontrary. \n\nWellllll.... They weren't murderous. They'd never harmed or even threatened \nanybody until they were attacked by a paramilitary force using military weapons\nand hardware. And as far as \"evidence\", what are you talking about? \nEverything the Feds have said they've retracted practically as soon as they get\nquestioned in detail about it. Maybe you and your Increased Beverage\nAccess buddies, sitting around the bar slurring stuff like \"they shoulda\nkilled 'em all 51 days ago\" don't feel that way, but then you're probably\none of those people still saying about Klinton \"Give the guy a chance, we don't\neven know what he's gonna do! (Burp)\n\n\n\n\nNo problem, you don't have any questions that scare any of us. Most of our\nminds are apparently more developed than yours. \n\nThe answer is: *YES!* In a f*cking heartbeat! \n\nThought Experiment: Would you be mindlessly down on your knees with your mouth \nopen, blissfully sucking up anything the Feds said if Bush were the president?\nWhat, no comeback? (OK, go ahead, say it. \"Read my lips, no new taxes\" %^P )\n\n\n\n\nNot in such a great degree. Bush broke one promise, maybe two (taxes/guns)\nand we held him accountable for it. Of course, it took him the better part of\n4 years to do it; Slick's only been in office 101 days and he's broken lots\nof them. Anddd... I imagine he'll also be held accountable for that.\n\n(I can just see the campaign buttons now: \"ABC - Anybody But Clinton\")\n\n\nHmmm.... Apparently you just got here. Nobody's claiming that it was anything\nbut a stupid mistake by a bunch of incompetent public employees who normally\ndon't get this kind of scrutiny when the mess up. And as far as how they picked\nthe Davidians, who knows? Maybe they figured that nobody'd care about such\na politically incorrect group as a bunch of fundies out on the Texas prairie.\nMaybe they figured they'd just go in there and run roughshod over the BDs\nduring their religious services (which was the reason the Feds gave for the\ntiming of the raid) rather than running into resistance. Maybe they KNEW\nthat the BDs weren't ANYWHERE NEAR as violent as the Feds' spin doctors are\ntrying to tell the public. Maybe they were AFRAID to try this kind of thing\non the Crips and Bloods. Maybe it was because the ATF's budget is up for\napproval and they seem to favor doing something dramatic whenever that is\nthe case. Of course, their reasoning doesn't matter, only what they did,\nand this time, people are just paying more attention to it.\n\n\n\nNot if you mean that stupid \"don't stop thinking about tomorrow\"...\n\n\nAll I've ever heard is Hillary's diabolical giggle. Waffle Man seems to have\nlost his sense of humor...\n\n\nDon't know, never seen him in one. He probably looks fat and puffy faced,\njust like in a suit. I saw him in the Rose Garden the other day, and I\ncouldn't get over how much he is starting to look like Teddy Kennedy.\n\n\n\n\nDon't worry, these things WILL be investigated. Now go back to your beer,\nyou dimwit....\n\n", "\nLast night CNN reported that FBI has infrared pictures showing\nthat the fires started in three places at the same time. That \nwould indicate something not resembling an accident.\n\nCheers,\nKent", "\nSay WHAT? Surrounding the compound with armed men and throwing\ngrenades isn't a provocation?\n\n\nYou're smoking something not legal in the US. They never rang the\ndoorbell. Not even the BATF has claimed that they have. This was a\nno-knock search.\n\nAs to the good reason the BATF has-- the warrant and supporting\naffadavit have not been made public. \n", "\n...\n\nI must object to the characterization of those opposed to the\ngovernment's handling of the Waco situation as \"gun supporters\".\nYour argument tries to paint the BATF critics as right-wing\ngun nuts, and just mixes up two issues.\n\nI am one of the BATF/FBI critics, and yet I am a liberal\nand just as anti-gun as you are. I just happen to believe\nthat everyone has civil rights, even religious crazies.\nThey're all human beings, not some nest of wasps that\nyou're trying to exterminate.\n\nThe BATF created the crisis situation by the way they handled\nthe original raid. It was well known that Koresh regularly\nwent jogging outside his property. He could have been served\nwith a search warrant then. He could have been arrested if\nhe had refused to comply. Instead officers armed with grenades\ninvaded the property. This escalated into a shooting war\nwith tragic deaths on both sides.\n\nThose were the first two mistakes: the bad judgment of\nasking for a no-knock warrant, and the bad and probably\nillegal way the already-unwise warrant was served.\n\nAt this point, the situation escalated to where it was\ndescribed as an armed standoff and a hostage crisis.\nThat's when the government started covering their traces,\nsealing the warrant, revising their reported history of\nthe incident, etc.\n\nThings were already building up to disaster. Now the\ngovernment could have simply closed the supply routes\nand waited. But according to Janet Reno, that option\nhad \"never been seriously considered\". So, supposedly\nbecause the agents were \"frustrated and fatigued\", and\nbecause there supposedly were no backups, they felt\nthey had to go in.\n\nNow it's entirely possible that Koresh was responsible\nfor the fire. If that's so, he deserves the blame\nfor the deaths of the people in his compound.\n\nBut the government's hands are far from clean.\nTheir first raid demonstrated bad judgment plus\ncontempt for the 4th amendment. The motivations\nfor the second raid are just too unbelievable.\nAnd their coverup of the events of the first\nraid undermines their credibility in anything\nthey do thereafter. We have only some very\nbiased FBI agents' word for what happened.\n\nAnd please let's not turn this into a pro-gun vs. anti-gun\ndiscussion. Anti-gun people do not believe that gun-owners\ndeserve to get frontally assaulted by armed government\nagents. And Koresh's civil rights exist whether his\nguns were legal, illegal, illegal-but-should-have-been-legal,\nor whatever! \n\n", ": \n: Nut or not, he was clearly a liar. He said he would surrender after\n: local radio stations broadcast his message, but he didn't. Then he\n: said he would surrender after Passover, but he didn't.\n: ", "\n\nIn two places at once? Bit of a coincidence, that.\n\nWhatever the faults the FBI had, the fact is that responsibility\nfor those deaths lies with Koresh.\n\nP.", "Those of us who questioned the mass suicide line may still have \nwondered, \"If it wasn't suicide, why did so few get out?\" The \nanswer is now available - the gas the government had been pouring\nin on them is so disabling that its use in wartime is banned by the\nchemical weapons treaty.\n\nThe U.S. had agreed not to use this gas against enemy soldiers in\nwartime, but used it in peacetime against civilians, including \nnnocent children.\n\nFor confirmation see Friday's CLINTON:AM press briefing by George\nStephanopoulous, posted in alt.news-media and other locations.\n(When questioned about it, his reply was that the treaty did\nnot forbid its internal use by law enforcement agencies.\n \n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nThis posting from Stephen F. Austin State University's ANONYMOUS account.\n\nPlease report abuses to newsmgr@ccsvax.sfasu.edu", "Speaking of ME's. The FBI said the fire victims were found face-up\n \nsuggesting they died prior to the fire. The ME says, in a word,\nBULLSHIT, the victims WERE face down. The FBI says they sent a body\nof a victim that was shot, supposedly by BD guards, the ME\nsays, in a word, BULLSHIT, the body showed NO evidence of gunshot\nwounds. Can the ATF/FBI tell the difference between CYA and truth?\n\n\n", "As quoted from by nate@psygate.psych.indiana.edu (Nathan Engle):\n\nWhat laws did they circumvent? Being \"frightening\" isn't a crime. Some people\nare afraid of young Black males. That doesn't make the mere status of being a\nyoung Black male a crime.\n\nThe BATF itself admitted leading off by throwing handgrenades. There is no\nevidence that they properly identified themselves as law enforcement \npersonnel. Under those circumstances, other persons have been found to be\nacting within their legal rights to exercise self defense against unidentified\narmed intruders.\n\nThe charges are irrlevant anyway, since the BATF has absolutely no jurisdiction\nin such matters anyway. Of course that hasn't stopped them from making other\nsuch spurious charges, such as the existence of mythical \"meth labs\". Of\ncourse they whole \"cult\" thing indicates the level of contempt that they have\nfor the 1st amendment.\n\nThat armed resistance, at least initially, may well have been LEGAL.\n", "\n\nThis is, apparently, what passes for intelligent discourse at Trinity.\nJoe \"FBI cultist\" Kusmierczak gets angry when its pointed out that\nthe FBI has told him is a LIE, the mounting evidence is that \nthey've lied about almost every detail of 4/19 except that they\nwere there. What can you expect of cultists like him, somebody\noughtta burn him out, and if he's trapped, well, good riddance!\nRight Joe?\n", "\nThe letter implies that both warrants were issued before the Feb 28th\nshootout but doesn't say so exlicitly. ACK!", "\nWell, actually, the Davidians (Koreshians?) started the fire themselves, \nthe last I heard ( around 15:00 EST). Eight people ran out into the feilds\nsurrounding the compound. All were captured and two admitted to setting the \nfire. I don't buy your napalm theory at all (although it would have made a \ngreat commercial for my .sig). Why the hell would they have a wood stove\nburning on such a warm day? Flame throwers use liquid petroleum, napalm \nis more of a gel. Now to further dispute your theory, the diluted CS gas\nwas inserted around 06:00 if I understood correctly. The place didn't start\nburning until around 10:00 or 11:00.\n \n \nCalm down kid. Vernon (Koresh's real name) said himself that he would not leave\nthat compound alive. The inhabitants thereof had accepted the fact that they \nmay very well have to kill themselves before it was all over.\n\n\nThere are at least eight survivors. A caller on Rush Limbaugh today suggested\nthat the rest may even be hiding in underground bunkers. That's not such a wild\nidea considering their weaponry and resolve. \n\n\nSheesh! Get over it. I haven't heard (read) such ranting since the Hindenberg\nburned. This should have ended 50 days ago. I'm glad my tax dollars have\nfinally stopped working to pay a bunch of guys to stand around and give press\nconferences. Now they can get back to more important things, like catching\ncigarrette smugglers.", "\n\nThat wasn't my point. My point is that your implied position about the \"Waco\nMassacre\" is an assertion cum political position. According to a CNN poll,\nabout 86% of Americans think the FBI acted properly, and a majority think\nthey should have done it (the tear gas) a lot sooner. A large majority also\nbelieve the FBI was not at all responsible for the death of the victims,\nKoresh was. (Let's avoid the kind of fruitless argument of the sort If A\nhadn't X'd, then B might not have Y'd....)\n\nWhat you call the \"Big Brother Chip\" is right now a proposal under\ndiscussion, and it is not yet clear that strong crypto is going to be\nbanned.\n\nTherefore neither justifies \"any tactic is fair.\" Thus the statement is\nnonsense. It is pernicious, because \"any tactic\" can lead to damaging\nothers.\n\nAs I see you know from the tone of your reply, there's nothing personal\nintended.\n\nDavid", "\n\nThe peaceful attempt to serve the warrant was met with gunfire. Due process\nwas not served because the Branch Davidians wanted it that way.\n\n*You* think on that.\n\n\n--\n\"Milk is for babies; when you're a man, you drink beer\" - Arnold", "Folks,\n\nIt's time to start building some precise questions to send to our\nfederal elected officials and to investigative reporters in our\nlocal TV, radio and newprint media. Ideally, these questions could be\nasked at any investigation into the BATF's and FBI's participation\nat the WACO fiasco in hopes of being resolved and, hopefully, wake\nup the local news media that they are not getting the entire truth\nfrom the BATF and FBI. My list is up to 13 that are really nagging \nat my gut. The list will probably grow. \n\n1. What were the contents of the original warrant, now sealed, that\n the BATF obtained?\n\n2. It is reasonable to believe that illegal firearms and/or ammunition\n could not be flushed down the toilet. Therefore, a \"no-knock\"\n raid could be ruled out. Prior to the initial assault on the \n complex, did a single BATF agent and accompanying witness (without \n a contingent of assault and news media personnel) attempt to knock \n on the door of the Branch Davidian's complex and serve the warrant \n in a manner prescribed by law?\n\n3. On the day of the initial assault on the complex, BATF agents\n were aware that several small children were inside the buildings.\n In the ensueing gun battle, BATF agents fired into a building\n known to contain children, killing at least one two-year old child.\n Knowing children were present, why didn't the BATF have an\n alternate plan and immediately retreat from the area close to\n the complex and implement the alternate plan rather than opening\n fire and jeopardizing the lives of the children in the building? \n\n4. The FBI spokesman states that paper evidence indicates that\n David Koresh and members of the Branch Davidians possessed over\n $200,000 in firearms and ammunition. Did David Koresh and the\n members of the Branch Davidians have a valid Federal Firearms\n License, were they actively participating in the legal business\n of selling/buying firearms and ammunition, and were any of the\n weapons they had illegally possessed? Does this paper evidence\n consist only of weapons purchased or does it include legally\n dispossessed weapons.\n\n5. After the original assault on the compound tragically failed,\n a BATF spokeswoman stated \"We were outgunned!\". Yet, TV newscasts\n of video tape filmed at the time of the incident show BATF agents\n armed with MP-5 and AR-15/M16 rifles. Although unclear on the\n video tape because of obstruction from full view by agent's\n bodies, they also may have had AK-47 and SKS rifles. What type(s)\n of firearms did the BATF agents have immediate access to at the \n scene of the original assault on the complex?\n\n6. Since there is no evidence to confirm anyone was inside the\n complex involuntarily, why did the FBI treat it as a \"hostage\"\n situation? \n\n7. Along the same lines, why did the FBI use \"psychological warfare\"\n techniques, including sensory overload, sleep deprivation, and\n other disruptive techniques that would test the sanity of any \n normal person rather than using techniques aimed at placing the \n complex occupants into a calmer frame of mind?\n\n8. Reports indicate several of the children inside the complex\n were accompanied by their mothers. Since it is reasonable\n to expect these mothers would have their children taken away\n from them if they came out, why did the FBI expect the mothers\n to just walk out and surrender themselves to the authorities?\n\n9. Agents at the scene claim to have seen members of the Branch\n Davidians setting fire to the complex. Branch Davidian members\n who survived the inferno claim the fire was started when an \n armored vehicle punched through the wall and knocked over a \n lantern which was setting on a table. Video tape of the incident \n does show an armored vehicle punching a hole in the wall and the \n fire erupted almost immediately from the same general location. \n Was the source of the fire the same room where the armored vehicle \n penetrated?\n\n10. FBI spokesmen are voicing the opinion that the David Koresh and\n the members of the Branch Davidians committed mass suicide. Yet,\n bodies are being discovered throughout the house and other areas\n within the building complex. This seems to be counter to any\n known mass suicides through history. What evidence does the FBI\n have that a mass suicide pact existed?\n\n11. FBI Director Sessions stated that the massive fireball shown on\n the video tape was caused by the Branch Davidian's ammunition\n and/or powder cache exploding. Yet, the fireball seems to be\n more characteristic of the type created when compressed gas\n or other highly volatile fuel source explodes. Was any evidence \n found which would indicate the Branch Davidians had an ammunition \n and/or powder cache which exploded to create this fireball? If so,\n and if David Koresh and members of the Branch Davidians were \n engaged in the legal business of selling/buying firearms, was the\n amount determined to be excessively greater than one would expect\n for someone engaged in such a legal business?\n\n12. It is rumored that one FBI agent was extremely upset about critical\n news media coverage and intentionally used an armored vehicle to\n crush a reporter's car which had been left at the compound. Is \n there any factual basis to this rumor and, if so, what charges will \n be brought against the FBI agent who performed the act?\n\n13. FBI Director Sessions states that, during the final assault on the\n complex, \"over 80 shots were fired at the vehicles.\" On the video\n tape of the incident, you can hear the drone of the armored vehicles\n engines. Yet, there is no sound of the sharp reports that one\n would expect to hear if shots were fired. Also, there are no \n indications of smoke and/or muzzle flashes appearing from the windows,\n buildings or other structures in the video. Surely, these should be \n evident if the Branch Davidians had fired on the armored vehicles. \n Finally, the video tape does not show any indication of paint splatter, \n sparks or other characteristic spray of material which should be \n apparent if the Branch Davidians had fired upon the vehicles. Do \n any of the armored vehicles which were brought in to pump tear gas \n into the compound show evidence of fresh damage due to being hit by \n shots from high-power rifles?\n\n14. CS gas is considered to be a chemical warfare agent. The United\n States has signed international treaties which prevent the use\n of CS gas in warfare. If the United States could not morally use\n CS gas against Saddam Hussein and his troops, why is it morally\n acceptable to use the same agent against citizens of our own land?\n\n15. On April 21, FBI spokesmen state that at least 3 bodies discovered\n in the complex had bullet wounds to the head indicating they had\n been murdered or had committed suicide. On April 22, the county\n coroner claims he knows nothing about any bodies found with bullet\n wounds to the head. Were any of the victims bodies found within\n the burned out complex have bullet wounds to the head?", "\n\n\n\tWhen did the BATF say this? Everything I've seen from the BATF,\n\tfrom the official version to the dissident statements of BATF\n\tofficers who conducted the raid claims that the Davidians were\n\tshooting at the agents long before they were within grenade \n\trange. \n\n\tAlso, if the warrant is sealed, how do we know it was a 'no-knock'? \n\n _____ _____\n \\\\\\\\\\\\/ ___/___________________\n Mitchell S Todd \\\\\\\\/ / _____/__________________________\n________________ \\\\/ / mst4298@zeus._____/.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'_'_'_/\n\\_____ \\__ / / tamu.edu _____/.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'_'_/\n \\__________\\__ / / _____/_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_/\n \\_ / /__________/\n \\/____/\\\\\\\\\\\\\n \t\t\t \\\\\\\\\\\\", "\n\tCOuld he? And the first three that died, when guns ablazing in came\n\tthe BATF and FBI?\n\n\tI imagine I would have some trouble giving up my children to\n\tsomeone who had just shot -- what -- two of them?\n\n\tNB: It takes two sets of guns in a situation like this.\n\n\n\tFanatical: those whowill not tolerate another's way of life\n\tReligious: Based on emotional, internal, or otherwise\n\t\tlacking in commonly defined _scientific_ basis,\n\t\tincluding legal ones, such as this old saw:\n\n\t\t\tInnocent untilproven guilty\n\n\t\tnot\n\t\t\tInnocent until presumed guilty\n\n\tWho is the fanatic? Note who is dead; this usually bespeaks\n\ta fair bit for the idea that the OTHER side also had lethal\n\tweapons, used fatally.\n\n\t\tThey are dead: the children.\n\t\t\tAt best Koresh was an asshole and the government\n\t\t\tcriminally negligent in its hadni\\ling of the case.\n\n\t\t\tAt worst, Koresh and his followers were\n\t\t\t\tinnocent\n\t\t\t\tnot brainwashed\n\t\t\t\tguilty of illegal arms possession\n\t\t\t\t\t(as yet unproven)\n\t\t\t\tand murderedd\n\t\t\t\talong with 25 children\n\t\t\tThey cannot speak for themselves\n\t\t\tMembers of the (surviving, alive, and not burned\n\t\t\t\tto death) BATF/FBI can, and are\n\t\t\t\tinappropriately\n\t\t\t\tto the public eye\n\t\t\t\toutside the bounds of their legal authorities\n\t\t\t\t\tread the charter:\n\t\t\t\t\tthe Constitution specifies that\n\t\t\t\t\tthe COURTS convict, while the\n\t\t\t\t\tenforcement arm INVESTIGATES,\n\t\t\t\t\tand that the evidence involved\n\t\t\t\t\tshuld not be disseminated in a\n\t\t\t\t\tway to harm or injure a party\n\t\t\t\t\tinvolved prior to that action;\n\t\t\t\t\tits called slander or libel\n\t\t\t\t\t(even where factually true butthen\n\t\t\t\t\tdistoted or disseminated with intent\n\t\t\t\t\tto harm\n\t\t\t\tfor the purpose of covering their butts\n\n\t\t\tbecause the bottom line is:\n\t\t\t\tthey SAID they wanted the kids to get out\n\t\t\t\t\talive\n\t\t\t\tand theFBI, the BATF, Ms. Reno, the Prez,\n\t\t\t\t\tand EVERYBODY ELSE IN THIS\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\tSICK\n\t\t\t\t\t\tSELFSERVING\n\t\t\t\t\t\tGROUP OF UPRIGHT ANIMALS\n\t\t\t\t\tthat used to be a freedom loving\n\t\t\t\t\tpeaceful country called\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\tAmerica: look up the name,\n\t\t\t\t\t\tit might surprise you\n\t\t\t\thas turned the \"point the finger of blame\"\n\t\t\t\ton the OTHER guy.\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\tand LET THOSE KIDS DIE.\n\n\t\t\t\tNote well: they lived 51 days; they only\n\t\t\t\tdied when attacked by outside force.\n\n\t\t\tSPock's World, Diane Duane:\n\n\t\t\t\tThe spear in the heart of another\n\t\t\t\tis the spear in your own ....\n\n\t\tALL of us are responsible.\n\n\t\tIam; you are. The question is not whether, but how:\n\n\t\t\tGuess what: you get to make up your own mind\n\t\t\ton that.\n\n\n\tWho created the war zone? You should be ashamed of bypassing that.\n\tIt's the same damned (Literally) comment made by the folks in\n\tthe former Yugoslavia to justify Ethnic Cleansing:\n\n\t\t\"Gee, they had the guns, all they had to do was surrender\".\n\n\n\tWhose \"cause\" did they die for? The one where they lived,\n\tpeacibly, to all known purposes (until proven in COurt,\n\tfolks!), or the Cuase of Righteous Government SafeGuarding \n\tThe Freedom Of The CHildren\n\n\t\tWho are now dead.\n\n\n\tAgainI say:\n\n\t\tI do NOT know who did what\n\t\tI was NOT there.\n\t\tThe FBI leaders show moral SICKness trying to\n\t\t\tconvict in the press ahead of schedule\n\t\tAnd you should look over your shoulder,\n\n\t\tbecuase if there is anything my ruminations that\n\t\tactually sets onto real fact of what happened\n\n\t\t\tand I do not know that; I am defending\n\t\t\tpeople who ahving been burned to death cannot\n\t\t\tspeak for themselves\n\n\t\tyou may, in 22-5 years, find that the concept in our\n\t\tCourt system has gone from\n\n\t\t\tDue Processss\n\n\t\tto\n\n\t\t\tDue Profit\n\n\t\tand the BATF come to collect their fair share of the tax\n\t\ton the value of your house if you rented it for income\n\n\t\t\twhich is going down now, folks.\n\t\t\tRead Bankruptcy 1995\n\t\t\t\tIts accurate in figures\n\t\t\t\tand it bypasses the greedy\n\t\t\t\t\tbusinessman and\n\t\t\t\t\tmankers who have\n\t\t\t\ttaken profit from the corruption\n\t\t\t\tof our govbernment.\n\n\t\t\tLook to where the money went, folks.\n\n\t\t\tYou got $10 for medicare that paid a doctor for\n\t\t\t$00.50 worth of medicine.\n\n\t\t\t\tThis is the customaryprofitmargin\n\t\t\t\tto businessmen for goernment entitlements.\n\n\tWho wll own the land of the cult now? Note well: it WAS nonproift,\n\treligious, and nontaxable. Large tract of land .... hmmm.\n\n\tUse your brains, folks: it happened Germany, and it can happen\n\there.\n\t\t\t4.3 trillion (admitted) and counting....\n\nroyc.", "\nCorrection: The *FBI* *says* that two of the nine who escaped said the fire\nwas deliberately set by cult members. Since the press was kept miles away,\nwe have absolutely no independent verification of any of the government's\nclaims in this matter.\n", "THE ENEMY WITHIN\n ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n By Robert I. Friedman\n The Village Voice, May 11, 1993, Vol. XXXVIII No. 19\n\n | How The Anti-Defamation League Turned the Notion |\n | of Human Rights on Its Head, Spying on Progress- |\n | ives and Funneling Information to Law Enforcement |\n\n\nRoy Bullock wanted to be a spy since he was a teenager in Indiana and\nread \"I Led Three Lives,\" Herbert Philbrick's Cold War saga of\npenetrating the Communist Party for the FBI. Philbrick had become an\nAmerican folk hero in the 1950s for building dossiers on unsuspecting\ncolleagues. It was a time when Hollywood produced more than 30 films\nportraying the informer as the quintessential American patriot. In\nBoston, where Philbrick led three lives as an FBI informant, Communist\nParty member, and private citizen, the mayor even proclaimed a Herbert\nPhilbrick Day and presented the spy with a plaque.\n\nFor Bullock, a shy young man who was coming to terms with his\nhomosexuality in the straight-arrow '50s, the life of a double agent\nwas the perfect way to hide his lifestyle while fighting the Communist\nmenace.\n\n\"I was fascinated with Herbert Philbrick,\" Bullock recently told\nfederal investigators, \"and so I thought I would try to infiltrate the\nCommunist Part. In 1957, I went to the Sixth World Youth and Student\nFestival in Moscow with the American delegation. I gave them [the FBI\na full report on it when I returned, along with some photos I took of\nsome Soviet military vehicles.\"\n\nBullock was hooked. For the next two years, he worked as an unpaid\ninformant for the FBI. But he found his true calling when he became a\npaid spy for the Anti-Defamation League in 1960. Now his activities\nare at the center of the biggest domestic spy scandal in recent\nAmerican history -- a scandal that may end with the ADL's criminal\nindictment in San Francisco.\n\nOver a 30-year period, he compiled computer files for the ADL on 9876\nindividuals and more than 950 groups of all political stripes,\nincluding the NAACP, the Rainbow Coalition, ACLU, the American Indian\nMovement, the Center for Investigative Reporting, Pacifica, ACT UP,\nPalestinian and Arab groups, Sandinista solidarity groups, Americans\nfor Peace Now, and anti-apartheid organizations. Bullock, who even\nspied on the recently slain South African nationalist Chris Hani when\nhe visited the Bay Area in April 1991, sold many of his ADL files on\nanti-apartheid activists to South African intelligence. Meanwhile,\nbetween 1985 and 1993, the ADL paid him nearly $170,000, using a\nprominent Beverly Hills attorney as a conduit in order to conceal its\nfinancial relationship with Bullock.\n\nLast month, police raided ADL offices in Los Angeles and San\nFrancisco, as well as Bullock's home, confiscating computer files and\nboxes of documents. According to court records, Bullock's files\ncontained the driver's license and vehicle registration information,\nin addition to criminal histories on individuals -- much of which was\nallegedly stolen from the FBI and police computers. Bullock, 58, told\nthe FBI that copies of virtually everything in his computer data base\nhad been given to the San Francisco ADL office. \"Based on the\nevidence,\" says Inspector Ron Roth, in a police affidavit, \"I believe\nthat Roy Bullock and ADL had numerous peace officers supplying them\nwith confidential criminal and DMV information.\"\n\nWhat's more, the San Francisco D.A. is investigating Bullock for\ntapping phones, accessing answering machines, and assuming false\nidentities to infiltrate organizations. Documents seized from\nBullock's home also contained evidence of his forays into Bay Area\ntrash cans: He had the names and phone numbers of employees at the\nChristic Institute in San Francisco, as well as telephone message\nslips to staff members (including names and phone numbers of callers),\noffice correspondence listing the names and return addresses of the\nsenders, and inter-office memos. He also had receipts from Christic\nInstitute's bank accounts at Wells Fargo and Eureka Federal Savings,\nas well as itemized canceled checks with the names of the payees, the\ndates, and amounts. Bullock even knew the balance in the Christic\nInstitute's checking account.\n\nInvestigations by the FBI and police in San Francisco have revealed\nthat the ADL has shared at least some of its spy gathering material\nwith Israeli government officials. What's more, Israel apparently used\ntips from the ADL to detain Palestinian Americans who travelled there.\n\n * * *\n\nThe ADL was established in New York City in 1913 to defend Jews, and\nlater other minority groups, from discrimination. It led the fight\nagainst racist and fascist groups like the Ku Klux Klan and the\nAmerican Nazi Party, and in the 1960s championed the civil rights\nmovement.\n\nBut there was also a darker side. In the late 1940s, the ADL spied on\nleftists and Communists, and shared investigative files with the House\nCommittee on Un-American Activities and the FBI. The ADL swung\nsharply to the right during the Reagan administration, becoming a\nbastion of neoconservatism. To Irwin Suall, a repentant Trotskyite\nwho heads the ADL's powerful Fact Finding Department, the real danger\nto Jews is posed not by the right -- but by a coalition of leftists,\nblacks, and Arabs, who in his view threaten the fabric of democracy in\nAmerica, as well as the state of Israel. In the tradition of his\nideological soulmate William Casey, Suall directed the ADL's vast\nnetwork of informants, who were given code names like \"Scumbag,\"\n\"Ironside,\" and -- for a spy reportedly posing as a priest in Atlanta\n-- \"Flipper.\"\n\nFor years, journalists and liberal members of the Jewish community\nknew the ADL spied on right-wing hate groups. As long as the targets\nwere anti-Semitic organizations like the Liberty Lobby and Lyndon\nLarouche, no one seemed to be particularly troubled. But the Bullock\ncase reveals that the ADL also spied on groups that have a nonviolent,\nand progressive orientation. This apparent massive violation of civil\nliberties may end with the ADL's criminal indictment in San Francisco,\nwhere the investigation began. The human rights group faces possible\ncriminal prosecution on as many as 48 felony counts, including an\nindictment for gaining illegal access to police computers. Says one\nsource close to the West Coast investigation, \"It is 99 per cent\ncertain that the ADL will be indicted.\"\n\nIn the wake of the San Francisco investigation, police probes of ADL\nspying are spreading to other parts of the country. \"We have received\nnumerous complaints about ADL [spying],\" says Sam Adams, a\nspokesperson for the mayor's office in Portland, Oregon.\n\nOn April 16, the Harlem-based Black United Fund of New York, and\nAfrican American self-help group that Bullock allegedly spied on,\nwrote District Attorney Robert Morgenthau, requesting \"an immediate\ninvestigation\" of the ADL. \"The ADL's actions cause great concern, as\nit is a direct and flagrant violation -- at minimum -- of our civil\nrights....We call upon you to join with the District Attorney of San\nFrancisco to...bring and end to this latest form of McCarthyism.\"\n\nGerald McKelvey, a spokesperson for Morgenthau's office, says, \"We\nhave no evidence before us that warrants any sort of investigation.\"\nMcKelvey adds that Morgenthau offered to assist the FBI and the San\nFrancisco D.A.'s office on their pending investigation. \"They have\nnot, so far, asked for our assistance.\"\n\nThe ADL acknowledges sharing information on violence-prone groups with\nlaw enforcement officials. It also admits to maintaining extensive\nfiles on a wide variety of organizations, but says, in a two-page\npress release, \"The vast majority of ADL's files are composed of news\nclips, magazine articles, books, journals, and other documents....\"\n\n\"ADL has made it clear that it does not and will not countenance\nviolations of the law on the part of anyone connected with the agency,\nand the process by which the League gathers information is presently\nunder review to insure that no laws are being violated.\"\n\nThat's what the ADL says for public consumption. But morale is so low\nthat its employees complain of sleepless nights and crying fits. And\neven as other Jewish groups circle the wagons around the ADL in a show\nof solidarity, many do so holding their noses. More than a few Jewish\nofficials privately say the ADL has to decide whether it is a human\nrights group or a secret police agency.\n\n\"The ADL is regarded both inside the Jewish community and outside the\nJewish community as the definitive source of information on anti-\nSemitism and extremist groups,\" says Daniel Levitas, the former\nexecutive director of the Center for Democratic Renewal, an Atlanta-\nbased group that monitors anti-Semitism, racism, and hate groups.\n\"One of the things this scandal has done is that it has completely\ntainted the ADL's credibility and reputation with regard to its\nobjectivity. This scandal is going to be a devastating blow to the\nJewish community at large because people regard the ADL as synonymous\nwith American Jewry.\"\n\n * * *\n\nBullock's talents as a snoop and his extreme conservatism meshed well\nwith the ADL's Cold War worldview. In 1960, he moved to Southern\nCalifornia where he became an ADL spy for $75.00 a week. Bullock\nalmost always used his real name when snooping, although he once\ncalled himself Elmer Fink when corresponding with supporters of\nAlabama governor George Wallace. Bullock provided the ADL's office in\nLos Angeles with written reports, which were transmitted to Fact\nFinding Department head Irwin Suall, according to court records.\nUnder Suall's stewardship, Fact Finding Department had become the\nADL's heart and soul. Located at ADL national headquarters across\nfrom the United Nations, the department had assembled a vast library\non \"hate groups,\" culling material from publications, speeches, and\ninformants reports.\n\nBullock was more than adept at leading a double life. Not long after\nmoving to California, he ingratiated himself with a woman in the John\nBirch Society who helped him gain access to the group's Boston office.\nThere, he found a file the right-wingers were keeping on the ADL. The\ndiscovery gave rise to speculation in the ADL New York office that\nthey had somehow been penetrated by the Birchers.\n\nBullock focused almost exclusively on right-wing extremist groups\nuntil the early 1970s when ADL L.A. head Milton Sinn was replaced by\nHarvey Schechter, who encouraged him to target the left as well. A\nfew years later, Bullock moved to the Castro District in San Francisco\nwhere he posed as an art dealer. And ADL fact finder who had\ninfiltrated the local Arab community had just been exposed. When the\nensuing scandal died down, Bullock was ordered by the ADL to penetrate\nthe Arabs.\n\nThe ADL was especially concerned about the American-Arab Anti-\nDiscrimination Committee, founded by the former South Dakota senator\nJames Abourezk to combat Arab-bashing. In a page out of the CIA's\ndirty tricks handbook on penetration and destabilization, Bullock\njoined the ADC, and then recruited Nazis into the group, apparently\ntrying to discredit it, according to published reports.\n\nIn 1987, the ADL sent Bullock to attend the National Association of\nArab Americans annual congress in Washington. According to court\ndocuments, Bullock was told to find the source of the group's funds.\nBullock was unable to \"follow the money.\" But he did such a good job\nat ingratiating himself that he was appointed to head a NAAA\ndelegation that visited Congress member Nancy Pelosi.\n\nIt's not surprising that the ADL penetrated Arab organizations. But\nonly acute paranoia explains their interest in groups like ACT UP. As\nfar as Bullock was concerned, gay groups in San Francisco were heavily\ninfiltrated by what he called \"gay left revolutionaries,\" prompting\nhim to write about their activities for the ADL.\n\nBullock soon expanded his horizons, moving into the shadowy realm of\nforeign espionage after Richard Hirschhaut, the head of ADL's San\nFrancisco office, introduced him to Thomas Gerard in 1986. Gerard was\nthen a detective with the San Francisco Police Department's\nIntelligence Unit. Gerard had worked as a demolitions expert for the\nCIA in El Salvador in the early 1980s, where he apparently had more\nthan a passing interest in right-wing death squads. (Police searching\nGerard's briefcase found extensive CIA literature about torture and\ninterrogation, photos of blindfolded and chained men, as well as\npassports made out to Gerard in 10 different names, including Thomas\nClouseau. From a remote jungle island redoubt in the Philippines\nwhere he fled last November, Gerard told the Los Angeles Times that he\nwill blow the lid off the CIA's involvement with Latin American death\nsquads if he is indicted in the ADL spy case.)\n\nAfter their very first encounter in the ADL office, Gerard and Bullock\nhad lunch at McDonald's, \"I liked Tom right off,\" Bullock later told a\nSan Francisco police investigator whose report of the interrogation\nwas obtained by the _Voice_. \"Tom is a very charming, roguish\ncharacter, with a great deal of integrity. Let me say here, I\nconsider Tom Gerard one of the finest policemen I've ever worked\nwith, absolutely. Honest, capable, intelligent and 100 percent\nAmerican.\"\n\nBefore long, Bullock was providing Gerard with confidential ADL\nreports on various groups and individuals. In turn, Gerard gave\nBullock classified police intelligence files on local Arab Americans,\nskinheads, and others. Bullock told the FBI that Gerard's material\nended up in his ADL reports. \"I would say 99 percent of the data that\nI got was name, address, and sometimes physical description. Criminal\nhistory, very rarely,\" Bullock told investigators. Gerard also gave\nBullock a chart that outlined a vast network of Bay Area Arab American\nbusinessmen and organizations that allegedly has ties to Middle East\nterror groups, as well as surveillance photos of Arab Americans\nreceiving weapons training overseas. Bullock claims that U.S. Customs\nin New York gave Gerard the photos. \"It was understood that Bullock\nwould be very careful with what he did with the information Gerard\ngave him, and that Bullock would not release it except to the ADL or\nother law enforcement officers,\" says an FBI report.\n\nThere was nothing unusual about Bullock's cozy relationship with law\nenforcement. By the mid-1980s, the ADL was swapping files with\nhundreds of \"official friends,\" the organization's euphemism for U.S.\nlaw enforcement and intelligence sources. The ADL's relationship with\nthe FBI's counterterrorism office was so close that ADL's reports on\nArab American group's covert ties to Middle East terrorists were \"must\nreading.\"\n\nIt's no accident that police found a 1986 classified FBI report\nentitled \"Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)--New\nYork Area\" while searching the ADL's San Francisco office. In 1987,\nADL spooks investigated seven Palestinians and a Kenyan studying in\nCalifornia universities on student visas. When the ADL discovered\nthey were disseminating PFLP literature, it informed the FBI, which in\nturn took the case to the Immigration and Naturalization Service.\nAfter the INS ordered the students deported as subversives, ADL\nregional director David Lehrer gloated in the _Los Angeles Times_\nabout his office's cooperation with law enforcement, although he's\nbackpedaling now. The \"Los Angeles 8\" deportation is still under\nappeal.\n\n * * *\n\nWhile the ADL worked quietly with America's top cops, it enjoyed\nsimilar ties with Israel's spy agencies -- a charge that ADL leaders\nvehemently deny. But as early as July 7, 1961, ADL director Benjamin\nEpstein wrote to B'nai B'rith executive secretary Saul Joftes,\nrequesting $25,000 for his investigators. \"Our information,\" he\nboasted to Joftes, \"in addition to being essential for our own\noperations, has been of great value and service to both the United\nStates Department and the Israeli Government. All data have been made\navailable to both countries with full knowledge to each that we are\nthe source.\"\n\nIn 1987, the ADL came under FBI scrutiny in the wake of the Pollard\nspy scandal. While assigned to the Navy's Anti-Terrorist Alert\nCenter, where he had access to the most closely guarded U.S. secrets,\nJonathan Pollard stole thousands of pages of classified documents for\nIsrael, which, according to federal prosecutors, \"could fill a room\nthe size of a large closet...ten feet by six feet by six feet.\"\nPollard's handler was Avi Sella, an Israeli air force colonel whose\nwife worked for the New York ADL as a lawyer. Pollard later wrote to\nfriends that a prominent ADL leader was deeply involved in the Israeli\nspy operation.\n\nWhile there is no proof that anyone connected with the ADL was\ninvolved with Pollard, there is evidence that the ADL freely passes\ninformation to Israeli intelligence. In March 1993, the FBI\ninterrogated David Gurvitz, an ADL fact finder in Los Angeles until\n1992 when he was fired by Suall for illegally obtaining police\ninformation to use against a rival at the Simon Wiesenthal Center.\nThe FBI pointedly asked Gurvitz if he had ever transmitted information\nto Israel. Gurvitz admitted that in 1992 he had learned from a law\nenforcement contact that Michael Elias, allegedly a member of a\nradical PLO faction, was scheduled to travel from San Francisco\nInternational Airport en route to Haifa. Gurvitz phoned the deputy\nIsraeli consul general in L.A. with the information. \"Later the same\nday,\" according to a 15-page FBI interview of Gurvitz obtained by the\n_Voice_, \"Gurvitz was called back by another man, who said he was from\nthe Israeli Consulate, and who asked Gurvitz to repeat the information\nabout Elias. Gurvitz did not get this man's name, but their\nconversation was in Hebrew so Gurvitz felt confident the man was\nactually an Israeli Consulate official.\"\n\nAmong the 12,000 names of private citizens that police found in ADL\nfiles in San Francisco was Mohammed Jarad, a 36-year-old Chicago\nresident who was arrested in Israel on January 25, for allegedly\ndistributing hundreds of thousands of dollars to Hamas, the large\nIslamic fundamentalist movement in the Occupied Territories. The\nChicago ADL office runs at least three undercover informants who work\nwith \"official friends\" in local law enforcement, according to\ndocuments released by the San Francisco D.A. and sources close to the\nADL. Given these facts, Arab American groups surmise that the ADL has\npassed information on Jarad to Israeli intelligence.\n\nOne technique used by the ADL to monitor the large Arab American\ncommunity in the Midwest was to scan the local Arab press for funeral\nnotices. According to sources familiar with the practice, ADL\ninvestigators in unmarked vans videotaped the Palestinian funerals,\nwhich sometimes turned into PLO rallies. Palestinians have been\ndetained at Ben-Gurion Airport simply on the basis of having been\nfilmed attending a funeral in Chicago, according to Suhail Miari, the\nexecutive director of the United Holy Land Fund, whose cousin was an\nArab member of Israel's Knesset.\n\nShortly after Jarad was arrested, the Israeli government announced\nthat Hamas was being run from America with money and operational\ninstructions relayed by courier or fax. Israel's charges were played\nup on the front page of _The New York Times_. According to well-\nplaced sources, Yehudit Barsky, an ADL fact finder in New York, worked\nclosely with Israeli officials on this campaign of vilification,\nintroducing \"friendly\" reporters to \"official friends\" in Chicago law\nenforcement.\n\nBarsky, who is fluent in Arabic, prepared an ADL report about how\nHamas is funded in America. She identified the Dallas-based Islamic\nassociation for Palestine in North America as the front organization\nfor Hamas in the U.S.A. \"Its infrastructure functions as an\ninterlocking network of organizations, small businesses, and\nindividual activists,\" says the February 1993 ADL report, which\noutlines the organization's development, its activities on U.S.\ncollege campuses, and its \"metamorphosis\" during the Gulf War. It\nalso traces Hamas fundraising through a plethora of alleged front-\ngroups from Plainfield, Indiana, to Culver City, California. It is\ndoubtful that Barsky could have compiled such sophisticated data\nwithout the help of \"official friends\" and ADL spies.\n\nBarsky refused to comment. But she used to talk to Greg Slabodkin as\nmany as three times a week when he was an opposition researcher for\nAIPAC, whose spy operation was disclosed last summer in the _Voice_.\n\"The level of cooperation was very close,\" Slabodkin said during a\nrecent phone conservation from Israel where he is in graduate school.\n\"If we felt our files were lacking, we contacted the ADL.\"\n\nWhen Sha'wan Jabarin, a 30-year-old Palestinian human rights worker in\nthe Occupied Territories won a $25,000 Reebok Human Rights Award in\n1990, Slabodkin recalls that Barsky faxed AIPAC the man's entire\npolice file, which she had obtained from the Israeli embassy. Jabarin\nhad been arrested numerous times in Israel, and once confessed to\nbeing a member of the PLO after having been severely tortured.\nJabarin, who received a short jail term, became an Amnesty\nInternational Prisoner of Conscience. Of course, to AIPAC and the\nADL, Jabarin was a terrorist. Slabodkin, who was ordered to keep tabs\non him when he was in the U.S. to receive his award, called a\nrepresentative of Al Haq, the Palestinian human rights group that\nemployed Jabarin, to obtain his itinerary. AIPAC even opened a file\non musician Jackson Browne, who presented Jabarin with the Reebok\naward.\n\nWhile the ADL may be able to rationalize its close monitoring of\nArabs, and even left-wing gay revolutionaries, it has a far harder\ntime explaining its obsession with spying on anti-apartheid activists.\nDavid Gurvitz told the FBI that when he started working as a fact\nfinder for the ADL in L.A. in March 1989, ADL files already bulged\nwith information about the Israel-South African connection and anti-\napartheid groups. \"Gurvitz confirmed that the ADL did routinely\ncollect information on persons engaged in anti-apartheid activities in\nthe United States,\" says the FBI report. While Gurvitz said there\nwere files in the L.A. ADL office dating to the 1930s, he estimated\nthe oldest material on anti-apartheid activities dates back to the\nlate 1970s, paralleling Begin's rise to power in Israel and a\ndeepening of ties between the Jewish state and South Africa. \"In\nabout August, 1992,\" says the report of the FBI's March 3, 1993,\ninterview with Gurvitz, \"an anti-apartheid demonstration was held at\nthe South African Consulate in Los Angeles. Participating in the\ndemonstration were the Los Angeles Student Coalition and the Socialist\nWorkers Party. Gurvitz went to two demonstration planning sessions,\nand a subsequent demonstration. He wrote a report for the ADL on each\nof the planning sessions and on the demonstration. Copies of the\nreports were disseminated to Bullock, among others, in care of the San\nFrancisco ADL office.\"\n\nIn 1986 Bullock learned that the consul general of the South African\nConsulate in Los Angeles would be speaking in Las Vegas at a meeting\norganized by Willis Carto, the head of the anti-Semitic Liberty Lobby.\n\"Suspecting that the Consul General did not know who Willis Carto is,\"\nsays the FBI report, \"Bullock suggested to Gerard that they might want\nto warn the South Africans. Gerard agreed and informed the Consul\nGeneral, who canceled his appearance.\"\n\nA few months later, Gerard phoned Bullock and told him a South African\nintelligence officer wanted to meet them. During a rendezvous in a\nhotel near Fisherman's Wharf, the South African said he was interested\nin acquiring information on American anti-apartheid activists. The\nSouth African, who called himself Mr. Humphries, also asked for\ninformation about groups that were advocating divestments. \"Gerard,\nwho was present throughout the meeting,\" says the FBI report, \"told\nHumphries that he [Gerard] had been employed by the CIA....Humphries\noffered to pay Bullock $150.00 per month in exchange for information.\nBullock noted that much of the information Humphries said he wanted\nwas already in the possession of Bullock and the ADL.\"\n\nBetween 1987 and 1991, Bullock sold information to South African\nintelligence, receiving steady raises, which he split evenly with\nGerard. \"Bullock said it was his impression, though Gerard never\nexplicitly told him so, (and Bullock never asked) that Gerard may have\nbeen telling the CIA about his and Bullock's contacts with the South\nAfricans,\" says the FBI report. \"Gerard had said he knew the CIA\n'resident agent' in San Francisco....Once, after Gerard dropped\nBullock off at Bullock's residence following a meeting with Louie [who\nreplaced Humphries as their handler], Gerard said he was going to go\nto the San Francisco CIA office.\"\n\nAl the while, Gerard may have been \"tasking\" Bullock for the CIA.\n\"Bullock recalled that once, after he had met Gerard, Bullock went to\nChicago, Illinois to conduct an investigation on behalf of the ADL,\"\nsays the FBI report. \"The target of the investigation was a group\ncalled the Palestine Human Rights Campaign. Bullock learned that a\nwoman [name deleted] was transporting money between the PLO or the\nPFLP, and the United States. Bullock told this to Gerard. Gerard\nlater told Bullock that Gerard's 'guy at the CIA' would like to know\nmore. Gerard asked Bullock if Bullock would go back to Chicago to\ngather more information on the Palestine Human Rights Campaign.\nBullock, however, never did go back.\"\n\nGerard also seems to have had a close relationship with Mossad, which\nmay have started in 1991 when he went on an ADL junket to Israel. The\nADL frequently sponsors trips for American law enforcement officials\nto Israel, where they are wined and dined and meet their counterparts\nin various intelligence agencies. According to an affidavit by San\nFrancisco police inspector Roth, the \"all-expense paid trip [to\nIsrael] was more or less a thank-you gift and a liaison gesture by the\nADL to continue the close relationships it has with specific law\nenforcement officers from the United States.\"\n\nGerard may have liked what he saw in Israel. A short time after\ntravelling there, he went to Addis Ababa where he helped with Mossad's\nrescue of Ethiopian Jews.\n\nAs Gerard's relationship with South Africa deepened, he talked more\nopenly about his exploits in the CIA. \"Bullock recalled Gerard\nmentioning that he had been in Algeria on CIA business, and that\nGerard discussed the PLO and 'safehouses,'\" says the FBI report, \"To\nthis Louie once responded that Israeli intelligence had determined\nthat the PLO and the African National Congress were cooperating.\nGerard also spoke of having travelled with the CIA to Afghanistan....\nLouie also [told Gerard and Bullock] about his adventures inside South\nAfrica as an intelligence officer. Both Gerard and Louie traded 'war\nstories' and regaled each other and Bullock with tales of 'narrow\nscrapes.'\"\n\nAlthough there is still much mystery about what triggered law\nenforcement's investigation of the ADL, it was probably the theft of\na classified FBI report on the Nation of Islam from the FBI's San\nFrancisco office. Police armed with search warrants recovered the\nreport in the ADL San Francisco office. Gurvitz says he had sent a\ncopy of it to Mira Boland, the director of the ADL's fact finding\ndivision in Washington, D.C. Boland was preparing an op-ed piece for\n_The Washington Times_, in which she argued that the Nation of Islam\nshould not receive federal funds for the reconstruction of L.A.\nbecause the group is anti-Semitic and violence-prone. (Boland, who\nhad arranged the ADL police junket to Israel attended by Gerard,\ntestified in a 1990 criminal trial in Roanoke, Virginia, that she had\nworked for the CIA for 14 months and later was a subcontractor for the\nDefense Department before joining the ADL. During the trial, Boland\nadmitted to sharing information with a CIA official at an invitation-\nonly ADL conference.)\n\nAfter he was questioned by the FBI last fall, Gerard fled to the\nPhilippines, which has no extradition treaty with America. Gerard is\nbelieved to have supplied information from police computers not only\nto the ADL, but to Israel and South Africa as well. The _San\nFrancisco Examiner_ reported that Gerard may be charged with violating\nfederal espionage laws.\n\nAlthough Bullock worked for the ADL for 30 years, and Irwin Suall\npraised him in a July 1992 memo as \"our number one investigator,\" the\nADL now argues that he was a rogue agent. In its own defense, the ADL\nalso asserts that its fact finders operate no differently than\njournalists. After all, ask ADL officials, don't journalists keep\nfiles?\n\nBut the difference between the practice of journalism and the ADL's\nmethod of gathering information couldn't be more striking.\nJournalists place information in the public domain where they are held\naccountable for falsehoods, distortions, and libel. And for the most\npart, journalists don't share their investigative files with foreign\nand domestic police agencies. The ADL has no such inhibition.\nBecause many of its files are not open to public scrutiny, false\ninformation collected by ideologically biased researchers cannot be\ncorrected. Once a proud human rights group, the ADL has become the\nJewish thought police.\n\n\"The ADL says it's a human rights group not just for Jews but for\neveryone,\" says Chip Berlet, a highly respected researcher at the\nMassachusetts-based Political Research Associates, which monitors\nright-wing extremist groups. \"That's fine but it can't do that and\nspy on Palestinians. It's blatantly unethical and frankly immoral.\"\n\n\"My argument to people is that the ADL wears four hats. Each of the\nhats independently is appropriate. It is a broad-based human rights\ngroup that looks at the broad issues of prejudice and discrimination.\nIt is a group that defends Jews against defamation. Entirely noble.\nNothing wrong with that hat. It is a group, whose leaders, at least,\nconsistently defend the actions of Israel against its critics, which\nagain is entirely appropriate. And it is a group that maintains an\ninformation-sharing arrangement with law enforcement. Again, there is\nnothing wrong for a group to do that.\"\n\n\"But you can't do all four. It is impossible to do all four and not\nviolate the bounds of ethics. There's a built-in conflict of interest\nif you wear all four hats.\"\n\nADL national director Abraham Foxman apparently sees no such conflict.\nIn a September 1, 1992, letter to the _Voice_, Foxman complained: \"ADL\nhas a proud 80-year record of fighting bigotry and promoting civil\nrights and constitutional freedoms. Any imputation of an effort or\nmotive on our part to smear or stifle the free speech of anyone is\nfalse and baseless\"\n\n\"Throughout his pieces [on AIPAC's spying], Friedman describes the\ndissemination of information as if it were slander, and the existence\nof files as a token of McCarthyite inclination. The depiction is\nmisleading in several ways. Virtually every journalist, academic,\npolitician and organization keeps files on subjects they deem\nrelevant; tracing the logic of Friedman's reckless charges, the\nLibrary of Congress is tantamount to the KGB. Moreover, disseminating\nthe public record of a public figure is neither defamation nor\nMcCarthyism.\"\n\nBut many believe the ADL is increasingly in the defamation business.\nAsk Jesse Jackson, James Abourezk, or the leaders of the New Jewish\nAgenda -- all past targets of ADL smears. (At the same time, the ADL\nexonerated the fascist World Anti-Communist League, which assisted\nRonald Reagan's covert war against Nicaragua, a policy endorsed by ADL\nleaders.)\n\nIn the early 1980s, researchers Russ Bellant and Berlet asked to meet\nfact finding head Irwin Suall, to discuss their work on anti-Semite\nLyndon LaRouche. \"Our view then of Irwin Suall was that he was this\nreally terrific investigator,\" says Berlet. \"So we introduce\nourselves, say what we are up to and Suall leans back in his chair and\nbasically runs down a dossier on each of us: about what our political\nactivities are, who we work with, what organizations we belong to.\nObviously, he was just trying to blow us away and he succeeds\nadmirably. We were just sitting there with our mouths open feeling\nvery uncomfortable.\"\n\n\"And then he leans forward and says, 'The right-wing isn't the\nproblem. The left-wing is the problem. The Soviet Union is the\nbiggest problem in the world for Jews. It's the American left that is\nthe biggest threat to American Jews. You're on the wrong track.\nYou're part of the problem.' We were stunned. I was virtually in\ntears. This is not how I perceived myself. We basically stumbled out\nof there in a daze.\"\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n Letters (response to Friedman's article)\n\n The Village Voice, May 18, 1993, Vol. XXXVIII No. 20\n\nA LEAGUE OF HIS OWN\n\nRobert I. Friedman's assault on the Anti-Defamation League [The Anti-\nDefamation League Is Spying On You.\" May 11] demonstrates that he has\nan axe to grind and his own prejudiced and biased agenda to promote.\nIt also demonstrates that concern for accurate reporting is far down\non his list. The story is replete with inaccuracies, innuendos, and\noutright falsehoods, and conveys a picture of ADL so divorced from\nreality as to be farcical. Friedman is even wrong on such basic,\neasily determined facts as where ADL was founded (Chicago, not New\nYork) and the building in which ADL'S San Francisco office is located\n(not the Jewish Community Federation building pictured).\n\nADL has done the work of fighting haters for 80 years, without\n\"spying\" on organizations or individuals and with profound respect for\nthe law. Our mission is to monitor and expose those who are anti-\nJewish, racist, anti-democratic, and violence-prone, and we monitor\nthem primarily by reading publications and attending public meetings.\nThrough the years, we have published scores of reports on anti-\nSemitism emanating from both the left and the right. In fact,\nalthough Friedman's bias leads him to assume the contrary, ADL's\nprimary concern is still the far right.\n\nBecause extremist organizations are highly secretive, sometimes ADL\ncan learn of their activities only by using undercover sources.\nFriedman's hyperbole notwithstanding, these sources function in a\nmanner directly analogous to investigative journalists. Some have\nperformed great service to the American people -- for example, by\nuncovering the existence of right-wing extremist paramilitary training\ncamps -- with no recognition and at considerable personal risk. The\ninformation ADL obtains is placed in the public domain, and through\nthe years ADL has established a reputation for accurate reporting.\n\nFriedman's article, by contrast, contains so much misinformation that\nit would take an article equally as long to set the record straight.\nA few examples: He states that an \"ADL leader was deeply involved in\nthe [Jonathan Pollard] Israeli spy operation,\" and that Pollard's\nhandler's wife \"worked for the New York ADL as a lawyer.\" Not true.\nFriedman also states: \"ADL investigators in unmarked vans videotaped\nPalestinian funerals.\" Not true. Elsewhere, he asserts that ADL was\nobsessed \"with spying on anti-apartheid activists.\" Again, not true.\nWe could go on and on -- and, of course, Friedman does not reveal\n*his* sources.\n\nThe distortion games Friedman plays when he mentions numbers further\nreveal his lack of objectivity. When it comes to how much ADL paid\nRoy Bullock a week -- as an independent contractor, not an employee\n(an important distinction Friedman also fails to make) -- he includes\nthe zeros ($75.00, $150.00), inviting the reader to see a large\nnumber. By contrast, when he observes that ADL paid Bullock \"nearly\n$170,000\" between 1985 and 1993, he chooses not to point out that\namounts to little more than $20,000 a year -- hardly an excessive sum.\n\nWhat is accurate about Friedman's story is Chip Berlet's description\nof ADL's four hats. Yes, ADL looks at broad issues of prejudice and\ndiscrimination. Yes, ADL defends Israel against critics. And yes,\nADL maintains an information-sharing relationship with law enforcement\nregarding extremist activities and hate crimes. We see no conflict in\nthese four activities, and we believe most _Voice_ readers won't\neither.\n\nABRAHAM FOXMAN\nNational Director\nAnti-Defamation League\nManhattan\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nROBERT I. FRIEDMAN REPLIES:", "\nOnly my common sense. The fire was caused by either Koresh and his\nfollowers or by the FBI/ATF/CIA/KGB/and maybe the Harper Valley PTA. Since\nyou are throwing around the evidence arguement, I'll throw it back. Can\nyou prove any government agency did it? (Please don't resort to \"they \ncovered it up so that proves they did it\" or any wild theories about how\nthe government agencies intentionally started the fire. The key words\nare proof and evidence.)\nproves they did it\"\n\n\nPlease explain how Koresh was defending himself from those children who\nburned. \n", "\nOr perhaps David Koresh didn't listen too well?? Just because mistakes\nwere made does not mean the President *lied*.\n", "\n\tMy god, a sane person! Somebody asking intelligent questions rather\nthan spouting of unsubstantiated drivel and making comparisons to Nazi\nGermany. I question, along with others, the initial raid by the ATF.\nThere are some definite questions needing answers.\n\n\n\tProbably. Which is why there are so many people angry at the\ninitial confrontation. Why attack a compound with as many people in that\ncompound who are willing to die for their leader? Further, they attacked\nin the daylight hours without proper backup, medical support, etc. That\nwas rather stupid...\n\n\n\tThis I doubt. While I question the ATF's initial raid, I believe\nthat the remainder of the standoff was handled fairly well with the single\nexception of the psychological \"warfare\" by blaring music, etc. I think\nthat was uncalled for and probably hindered the outcome.\n\n\n\tSee above...\n\n\n\tAgreed.\n\n\n\tWhich is actually rather refreshing nowadays. Most of the time, the\nhigher-ups claim \"I don't remember...\" or \"I had no involvement...\" :-)\n", "Jason Kratz writing:\n\n...\nJK>If they had rocket launchers and such (as the press and gov claims) why\nJK>shouldn't they have done something? What possible use would a religious cult\nJK>have for a rocket launcher? Also, is child abuse covered by the Bill of\nJK>Rights?\n...\n\nThis is taken a little out of context and I'm not flaming Jason...it's just\nthat this was the proverbial straw....\n\nI grow a little weary of the allegations (here, the media, people on the\nstreet) that the BD's had all these \"horrible illegal weapons and other\nparaphenalia of destruction capable of blowing tanks 50 feet into the air...\"\nand then, without missing a beat, discuss how the BD's willfully commited\nmass suicide, or killed their own less fanatical and *then* commited mass\nsuicide, etc., etc.\n\nIf the BD's had all these things and intended to \"blow up their abode, blow up\nWaco, blow up the entire country, or whatever suits your fancy, what happened\nto all the violence they were supposed to unleash? Why wouldn't they have \"gone\nout in the proverbial blaze of glory\" and \"come out shooting\" with an attitude\nof \"let's take as many of those dogs as possible with us\"?\n\nInstead, they seemed to have preferred death to whatever they thought was in\nstore for them at the government's hands.\n\nIt's totally immaterial whether they were all crazy, all fanatics, all followers\nof the antichrist, haters of the government, practicers of weird lifestyles, or\nwhatever...they must have felt that they were being pressured into renouncing\ntheir beliefs, however how strange or lunatic those beliefs might appear to \"you\nand me\". There is much precedent for such devotion to cause.\n\nMy conclusion at this point is that the \"authorities\" seriously misread their\ndanger to society (else why did the BD's not do as suggested above) and/or chose\nthis incident to make some heinous point or satisfy some internal agenda, up to\nand including AG J. Renbo using this as an opportunity to assert her manhood.\n\nSome people really do believe it is better to die than be subjected to what\nthey perceive as the godless government. When I force myself to not judge\nothers by my own personal standards and beliefs, I can almost admire their\nstand.\n\nI surely believe in the Constitution but I don't know that I have such strength\nof conviction as evidenced by the BD's.\n---\n . OLX 2.2 . Obesa non cantatis!\n ", "\nFor goodness sake if they had fired a cruise missile at the compound more\npeople would have come out alive. It was obvious to anyone with the remotest\ncontact with reality that such an outcome was likely (not just possible)\nhowever the fire started. As, Mr Lawnmower, you seem to have already entered\nyour own little virtual reality I guess you can't be expected to understand\nthings in the real universe.", "\nThe documentary interviewed Koresh and current and ex-members. \nThe documentary disucussed Koresh's \"Christ\" status inside the cult, \ncult brain-washing techniques, and unusual sex practices (the leader \ngets any he wants, and tells others when they can or can't). I will let \nothers decide if using religious authority to have sex with a minor is \ntechnically child abuse or not.\n\n\nAll true.\n\n\nWell, if a fire was deliberately set by members of the cult, then the \nhistory and background of the cult is very relevant. The history \nand backgournd of the Jones cult was very important in understanding \nwhat happened at Jonestown.\n\nNot taking into account the history and background of Koresh's cult may \nalso help explain why the FBI and BATF so badly predicted the reponses \nthey would get from inside the compund nearly every step of the way in \nthis badly handled affair.\n\n\nIt is likely that there will be at least two investigations (JD and congress) \nat this point.\n\n\nInteresting and conflicting details are starting to come out. I have \nreverted back to wait mode to find out whether the fire was intentional \nor accidental and how it started and why it spread so fast.\n\n\n", "\n\n\tSeAL Team six should have handled it? Delta Force? The\nBATF had more than enough equipment and men. They did not have\ngood intel, but they did have poor planning. They fucked up. Even\nin just the most basic military sense, they fucked up. Excuses do\nnot justify body counts.\n\n\n\tAnd your excuses fall upon deaf ears when the same BATF\nhas shown shitty leadership despite more people, better weapons,\nand exclusive use of armor against their targets. BATF is nothing\nmore than a private army of the government. Do the agents swear an\noath, as I did, to uphold the Constitution? You know, that document\nthat stipulates the highest law of the land? If they do, they should\nbe up for charges in a court of law. Remember, the law? That's\nthe whole reason for any of this.\n\n\n\tYeah, I've been related to many of them. This is flame-bait,\nright? I'm not paying your price. Mind if I sight in my guns on\nyour body? Think of it as the price you have to pay that we may all\nlive without fear of my making a stray shot. It's fine and dandy to\nrevel in the other guy being the target and your supposed safety. In\nthe military, we called this \"chicken shit.\" Leadership from the rear.\nThe War on Drugs, despite being a catchy term for nothing more than\na continuation of policy since before this century, seems to have\ngotten you convinced that my rights aren't worth your good vibes.\nMind if I cut your net access, as well as access to any and all forms\nof expression? See, you make me nervous, what with you being able\nto influence so many. I'm sure you can see how this is the price we\nhave to pay for freedom and liberty in this country, as well as\na fair and unbiased judiciary.\n\n\n\tMind if we include you in the body count? I'm sure we could\nall file it under \"civic improvement\" and your life wouldn't have\nbeen sacrificed in vain. If you like, you can will your estate to\ndefecit reduction, too. Now, when you learn how the law protects, or\ndoesn't protect, everybody equally and how our collective boot may\none day be on your collective throat, perhaps at that time you will\nmature enough to realize just what you're talking about and how\nserious this is.\n\n\tNext time, include a smiley. While I hesitate to think that\nyou could have meant this seriously, it deserved a small flame anyway.", "Here is a press release from the White House.\n\n President Clinton's Remarks On Waco With Q/A\n To: National Desk\n Contact: White House Office of the Press Secretary, 202-456-2100\n\n WASHINGTON, April 20 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Following are\nremarks by President Clinton in a question and answer session\nwith the press (Part 2 of 2):\n\n Go ahead, Sarah.\n\n Q There are two questions I want to ask you. The\nfirst is, I think that they knew very well that the children did not\nhave gas masks while the adults did, so the children had no chance\nbecause this gas was very -- she said it was not lethal, but it was\nvery dangerous to the children and they could not have survived\nwithout gas masks. And on February 28th -- let's go back -- didn't\nthose people have a right to practice their religion?\n\n THE PRESIDENT: They were not just practicing their\nreligion, they were -- the Treasury Department believed that they had\nviolated federal laws, any number of them.\n\n Q What federal laws --\n\n THE PRESIDENT: Let me go back and answer -- I can't\nanswer the question about the gas masks, except to tell you that the\nwhole purpose of using the tear gas was that it had been tested; they\nwere convinced that it wouldn't kill either a child or an adult but\nit would force anybody that breathed it to run outside. And one of\nthe things that I've heard -- I don't want to get into the details of\nthis because I don't know -- but one of the things that they were\nspeculating about today was that the wind was blowing so fast that\nthe windows might have been opened and some of the gas might have\nescaped and that may be why it didn't have the desired effect.\n\n They also knew, Sarah, that there was an underground\ncompound -- a bus buried underground where the children could be\nsent. And they were -- I think they were hoping very much that if\nthe children were not released immediately outside that the humane\nthing would be done and that the children would be sent someplace\nwhere they could be protected.\n\n In terms of the gas masks themselves, I learned\nyesterday -- I did not ask this fact question before -- that the gas\nwas supposed to stay active in the compound longer than the gas masks\nthemselves were to work. So that it was thought that even if they\nall had gas masks, that eventually the gas would force them out in a\nnonviolent, nonshooting circumstance.\n\n MS. MYERS: Last question.\n\n Q Mr. President, why are you still saying that --\n\n Q Could you tell us whether or not you ever asked\nJanet Reno about the possibility of a mass suicide? And when you\nlearned about the actual fire and explosion what went through your\nmind during those horrendous moments?\n\n THE PRESIDENT: What I asked Janet Reno is if they had\nconsidered all the worse things that could happen. And she said --\nand, of course, the whole issue of suicide had been raised in the\npublic -- he had -- that had been debated anyway. And she said that\nthe people who were most knowledgeable about these kinds of issues\nconcluded that there was no greater risk of that now than there would\nbe tomorrow or the next day or the day after that or at anytime in\nthe future. That was the judgment they made. Whether they were\nright or wrong, of course, we will never know.\n\n What happened when I saw the fire, when I saw the\nbuilding burning? I was sick. I felt terrible. And my immediate\nconcern was whether the children had gotten out and whether they were\nescaping or whether they were inside, trying to burn themselves up.\nThat's the first thing I wanted to know.\n\n Thank you.\n\n Q Mr. President, why are you still saying it was a\nJanet Reno decision? Isn't it, in the end, your decision?\n\n THE PRESIDENT: Well, what I'm saying is that I didn't\nhave a four- or five-hour, detailed briefing from the FBI. I didn't\ngo over every strategic part of it. It is a decision for which I\ntake responsibility. I'm the President of the United States and I\nsigned off on the general decision and giving her the authority to\nmake the last call. When I talked to her on Sunday, some time had\nelapsed. She might have made a decision to change her mind. I said,\nif you decide to go forward with this tomorrow, I will support you.\nAnd I do support her.\n\n She is not ultimately responsible to the American\npeople; I am. But I think she has conducted her duties in an\nappropriate fashion and she has dealt with this situation I think as\nwell as she could have.\n\n Thank you. (Applause.)", "On 26-Apr-93 in Re: What part of \"No\" don't..\nPlease provide evidence that having a moment of silence for a student\nwho died tragically costs taxpayers money.\n", "nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes...\n\n\nThe rest of the story seems to be that the agreement for the broadcast\nwas for prime-time, and that Koresh never even heard it played. Wasn't\neven tuned in to the radio when it aired -- so no reason to come out.\n\nIf later they had given him a copy of the grossly twisted newswire \ntranscript -- I'm certain Koresh would think he was at the mercy of\nevil itself. \n\nAs to coming out after Passover, wasn't that just one of the lawyer's\nspeculations Peter?", "\nIn the Air Force world at least, the crisis escalates when scale\nmodels of the plane in question (i.e. about to be sacrificed) begin to\narrive in key Senators and Congresspersons' offices.\n\nOf course it is assumed that coffee mugs and other decorative junk has\nbeen tried earlier.\n\nSpiros", "\n\nWe've heard a lot of talk about brainwashing in Waco but the brainwashing\nof the general population never ceases to amaze me. Here is an\nexample of action being taken which results in the worst possible\noutcome and despite people's deep intuition telling them something\nis wrong the programming will still cut in and say that the\nagents probably acted in good faith. NO THEY DIDN'T. They either did\nnot have enough information to act in good faith or else they acted\nknowing the risk. Sums up human stupidity all over and one of these\ndays it will destroy the fucking planet: \"Oh sorry. Didn't think they\nwould respond by launching a strike. All our best calculations told\nus they were bluffing.\"\n", " \n \n \n The BATF got sat on pretty early on. After the initial shooting\nwas over, it pretty much become the FBI's show. (Even that BATF guy\nstopped showing up next to the speaker at the daily press conferences).\n ", "Did you by any chance see the pictures of the agents in flak jackets climbing\nup on the roof and breaking windows. You call that peaceful? If you\nbelieved, as these people did, that they would be attacked by evil forces\nfrom the outside, found the scores of agents breaking into your compound\nwhat would you do? Your beliefs always determine your actions. The\nbeliefs may be wrong from my point of view but they are yours all the same.\n\nTo make it more practical. If I attempted to stick you with a needle you\nwould try to stop me because you believe it would hurt, or that I do not\nhave that right. If you did not you would ignore me. You certainly would\nit you saw me sticking the needle in a tree.\n\nKoresh may have been misguided, only God knows. But the Jews at Masada\ndied for what they believed, the three Hebrews preferred to die in the\nfurnace rather than bow down, Daniel preferred to die in a lion's den\nrather than stop praying to his God, and as a Christian I am prepared to\ndie for my faith.\n\nKoresh was not dying for now reason. He had a cause. Why should he give\nup the children to forces he was convinced were evil. The events are\nbizarre but they match his beliefs.", "Today the Texas ME found two people, a man and a woman shot in the head\ninside the burned compound. But these were not the people that the FBI\ndescribed a few days before. The FBI said that the person found in front of\nthe compound had been shot and several children were also. The two people\nfound today were on top of the main inside concrete bunker that provided\nthe most protection during the fire. So the comment that children were\nshot is still not proved.\n", "\nHere goes:\n\nMore than a few years back (if you were born that year, you can legally drink),\nwe tried it out. We found an 8 ft. deep cistern that we lined with some 10 ft.\n2X6s. We put a large can (one of those industrial sized pork'n beans cans)\nstuffed with oily rags and scraps of wood in the bottom. After lighting the\nfire, we LOWERED a box of .38 Spc. SWCs into the can. We heard pops, one solid\nbang and several \"fizzzz shussss\". After we thought the excitment was over, we\nboldly climbed down to find that NONE of the bullets had left the can, several\nof the shells were lieing around the bottom of the well and the boards had all\ndied of smoke inhalation. And 5 or 6 of the shells still had live primers!", "The Waco/Whacko Bar-B-Q caused me to remember an official explanation\nfrom the Vietnam War. The 90s, liberal version is:\n\n \"It was necessary to incinerate the children in order to save them.\"", "\n\n Koresh had a lawyer, Deguin(?) who he spoke to in person several times during\nthe last few weeks. \n\n\n This strikes me as a tad ingenous. \"If X had done/note done Y, then Z would\nnever have happened.\" I tend to place tha responsibility on the group/person\nactually committing the act, not on those whon \"forced them to do it\".\n\n After all, to take an extreme example, if the British were not in Northern\nIreland, the IRA would not be forced to place bombs in shopping centers.\n\n That said, this whole sorry story was a totally unecessary, utterly fucked\nup mess from the get go.\n\nsemper fi,", "Question for those of you who seem to be fundamentalists (Stephen\nTice, the Cotera, Joe Gaut, et al)(apologies if I've mislabelled any\nof you, I've only started reading t.r.m since the BD disaster. But I\nknow the Cotera is a fundy) and are defending Koresh and his beliefs\nas an example of True Christianity under persecution from the the Big\nBad Secular State: what is your opinion of his reported sexual habits?\nIf the reports are accurate, what IYO does this say about the quality of\nhis Christianity? Or are the allegations just part of the Big\nCover-Up?\n\n(I remain deliberately neutral on the cause of the fire: I wouldn't\nput it past Koresh to have torched the place himself. On the other\nhand, if the propane-tank-accident story is correct, I wouldn't put it\npast the FBI to try to cover its ass by claiming Koresh did it. I\nhope your government does a VERY thorough investigation of the whole\ndebacle, and I'll be disappointed if a few heads don't roll. The\nauthorities seem to have botched the original raid, and in the matter\nof the fire, are guilty of either serious misjudgement, or reckless\nendangerment.)", "\n\nThat's another sad thing. I'd expect this sort of shit from the BATF.\nBut I'm goddamn disappointed in the FBI. They used to be professionals.\n-- ", "\nIn the videos of the original BATF attack on the BD church, did anyone\nhappen to see BATF agents on the highest structure, where Koresh's\nroom was? I don't recall seeing BATF agents higher than the roof of the\nlowest structures, so I made an assumption that BATF helos did the\nfiring down into the tower. Any other info on how the rounds came\nthrough the roof?\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\n+>The paranoid assertion that the BATF fired first in an unprovoked\n+>assault assumes that the BATF were on a death wish. Had they\n+>expected the B-D to be anything other than peacefull citizens who\n+>would accept a search authorized by a court they would have turned up\n+>in a tank and broken the door down on day one.\n\n\tThe search was a \"no-knock\" warrent. Meaning that what\nthose on the scene see is a bunch of men with guns storming \ntheir compound and lobbing grenades at them. The terms of the\nsearch warrent are secret and the BATF has yet to even reveal\nwhat they were.\n\n\n\n\n+>The stupidity was the attempt to serve a warant on the place by\n+>ludicrously underarmed and unprotected police. \n\n\tThey did not serve a warrent, they basically attacked the\ncompound and expected a surrender. They had semiautomatics and\nconcussion grenades that we KNOW about. \n\n\tLook at the death and injury toll inflicted on both sides in the first\nbattle and its difficult to believe that either side had any\nsuperiority in weapons.\n", "Cross-posted to talk.politics.guns from can.politics:\n\n# >been to Waco, Texas lately? yes, the government takes care of us\n# >all, doesn't it? as long as you belong to a government-sanctioned\n# >religion.\n#\n# Excuse me, but didn't these gun-ladden cult members threaten, shoot and kill\n# some people?\n\nThey threatened no one. Their neighbours thought they were a little\nstrange but all in all the kind of people you would want to live\nnext door to.\n\nOne version has the BATF serving a *search* warrant by jumping out\nof a horse trailer with guns and tossing concussion grenades. If\nthis is the true order of events then the 'cult' could not know\nthat a search warrant was being served and since there was no proof\nthat these guys were police, the 'cult' had every right to defend\nthemselves.\n\n: Torching themselves shows briliant tactics, and convinces me\n: they *realy* belong in society ...\n\nIf you watch actual footage of the fire from start to finish it\nis not at all clear that fire wasn't started by the tanks. The\npeople who survived are claiming that the fire was started by\nthe tanks knocking over some kerosene lanterns. The FBI is\nclaiming that the 'cult' started the fire.\n\n'they *realy* belong in society' is a catchy phrase but\nI'm personally waiting to see what the Texas Rangers have to say\nabout it all before I pass judgment. Why don't you do the same.\n\nSome more interesting facts about the Waco incident:\n\n1) The original assault was conducted by BATF officers wearing\n an assorted types of camouflage. I saw, on CNN, at least\n three different types. I would be hard pressed to identify\n a bunch of guys in 'bring-your-own' battle fatigues as\n uniformed officers of the law even if they were claiming to\n be police.\n \n2) The BATF has been lying from the beginning:\n + \"We only had handguns\" - the original footage showed 4 BATF\n officers on a roof top getting shot at, one had an MP-5\n assault sub-machine gun.\n + \"We were out gunned\" - sub-machine guns and shotguns are the\n BEST in quarters weapon, you can't be out gunned when you\n have the best guns available for the job.\n + \"We didn't know they had guns that would shoot through doors!\" -\n this one is the best, there are very few guns that won't shoot\n through a household door, or through a house WALL for that\n matter. Since officers from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and\n *Firearms* should know that, they are either lying or incredibly\n incompetent. Not to mention criminally negligent if they are\n shooting bullets that they think will stop when the encounter\n plywood.\n + \"We had a search warrant. Actually, we had an arrest warrant.\n No, wait, we had both. Yeah, that's the ticket.\n Oh, and they're child molesters too. And they make *drugs*.\n Did we mention we think they have rocket launchers.\"\n - The story from BATF and FBI spokespeople has changed daily\n and their claims were getting increasingly outrageous.\n \n3) Throughout the siege the FBI and BATF have be claiming that one\n of their biggest concerns was that Koresh and his followers would\n mass suicide. Now they are claiming that that's what he did\n AND that they are surprised that he did. Huh?\n\nAll in all I think that anything the FBI and BATF say should be\ntaken with a grain or two of salt.\n\nRob.", "\nPerhaps it is because witnesses who have left the compound have all\ntestified that the BATF shot first, they they did not identify themselves\nbefore tossing in concussion grenades (not that anyone inside could have\n_heard_ such identification after being near a concussion grenade) and\nthe announcement from the BATF that they have sealed the warrant under\nwhich they were operating - which was a _search_ warrant, by the way,\n_not_ an arrest warrant. In short, perhaps because the BATF is wildly\nout of control and perhaps calmer heads have realized that bombing a\ncompound full of woman and children will not improve their position.\nThere is a real chance that Koresh will be able to prove self-defense\nin court. That will leave - what? - four officers dead and no one to\nblame but the BATF.\n\nFollowups directed to alt.activism, where the discussion has raged nearly\nas long as the seige, and which shows every sign of not giving up nearly\nas soon.\n\nLarry Smith (smith@ctron.com) No, I don't speak for Cabletron. Need you ask?", "\n\nThe above conveniently ignores the murder of four BATF agents by the\nBranch Davidians in an unprovoked ambush.\n\nAny government that allows tinpot dictators to set up shop and declare\na private state has drifted into anarchy. There are laws to control\nthe ownership of guns and the BATF had good reason to beleive that\nthey were being violated. They set out to obtain a legal warrant and \nattempted to serve it only to be met with gunfire when they rang\nthe doorbell.\n\nThe paranoid assertion that the BATF fired first in an unprovoked\nassault assumes that the BATF were on a death wish. Had they\nexpected the B-D to be anything other than peacefull citizens who\nwould accept a search authorized by a court they would have turned up\nin a tank and broken the door down on day one.\n\nThe stupidity was the attempt to serve a warant on the place by\nludicrously underarmed and unprotected police. \n\n\nIf anyone on the net cares to suggest a sure fire method of bringing\nthe murderes of four police officers to justice perhaps we could\nhear it.\n", "Can people please stop the 'I think/know the BATF/FBI are completely\nresponsible but they'll cover it up so that the investigation will\nshow that Koresch is responsible' bs. In an investigation of this\nsize with the feds, state, and civilians involved in the\ninvestigation it would be practially impossible to cover up.\nAnd with Republicans like Arlen Spector calling for investigations,\nthis isn't going to be handled with kid gloves.", "\nAnd another survivor claims he heard someone shouting \"The fire's started!\".\nOdd terminology. That's what one says when you know a fire is planned, not \nwhen one occurs by accident. We will have to wait and see what the evidence \nshows, assuming one is willing to believe any evidence offered by the \n\"distrustful ones\".\n\n\nNeither. Again I was merely addressing the sanity level of the players. \nI agree that the BATF handled the affair badly from day one. BTW, I heard \non the news today that the affadavit behind the no-knock warrant was unsealed \ntoday. Grenade launcher was the only thing on the list that I found \nunusual.\n\n\nAmbitious news reporters could use the documentary filmed by an Australian \nin 1992 on the compound grounds to help identify survivors. I, for one, \nwill check their stories for consistency with what I learned in a long \nnews story about that documentary.\n\n\nCertainly there is some room for doubt. I certainly reserve the right \nto change my opinions when new evidence warrants such a change. If I \nwere conspiratorially minded, however, I would never be able to change \nmy mind, because any evidence I disliked would have to be a lie \nfabricated by the \"distrustful ones\".\n\n", "\nA great deal of documentation exists on exactly that phenomenon. Especially\nregarding Vietnam and the Mai Lai (sp?) massacre\n\nNot that I'm suggesting that they started it on purpose but even if they\nnow know that they accidentally started (or contributed to it) you can\nbe sure the initial reaction is to lie. Remember the Iranian airliner\nwhich the US navy mistook for a fighter and shot down?", "\n[horror story about FBI ruining a guy's life for the hell of it omitted]\n\n\nSo, is this a real story or a work of fiction? How about some\nsources? When, where, and in what newspaper did you get all this\nfrom? Or is it all hypothetical?", " \nThe FBI has claimed from the begining that it wasn't standard use\ntear gas. How do you know it was? Or do you just assume it was\nfor flamebait?", "So far, there is NO credible evidence that the BD's set the fires\nthemselves. We only have the ATF/FBI's sayso. Law enforcements type\nwould *never* lie to cover their ass, right?\n\n\nNo, not love, just share a surprising similarity of beliefs and\nmethod.\n\n\nFunny, yeah, funny how you didn't wait for the FBI spokesdroid \nlatest reversal of \"facts\" before proclaiming the BD's burned\nthemselves to death.\n\n\n\n", "\n\n\n \nIt was filmed the day of the first assault. The BDs clearly allowed the\nBATF agents who were shot and wounded to leave the compound. The\nlesson, I suppose is that you should keep shooting untill ALL the pigs\nare dead and then get the fuck outa dodge. Never give a pig an even\nbreak. ", "\n+>Can people please stop the 'I think/know the BATF/FBI are completely\n+>responsible but they'll cover it up so that the investigation will\n+>show that Koresch is responsible' bs. In an investigation of this\n+>size with the feds, state, and civilians involved in the\n+>investigation it would be practially impossible to cover up.\n\n\tThe place has burned to the ground. The FBI and company\nhave the whole area cordoned off and have already arrested \nreporters for being at the site and taking pictures.\n\n\tAll your going to get in terms of a story is what the FBI, ATF\nand the Texas Rangers decide to release. \n\n\n\n+>And with Republicans like Arlen Spector calling for investigations,\n+>this isn't going to be handled with kid gloves.\n \n\tWhen the Philadephia cops dropped their bomb on MOVE and\nmanaged to burn down an entire neighborhood many people said \nthe same thing. Dead men and rubble tell no tales that the\npolice dont want them to tell. ", "Just to shed some light on the fire, it was widely reported (AP, etc.) that\nthere WERE several witnesses to BD folks starting the fires. It has also\nbeen reported that the fires broke out in several places at once, which\nrules out a Bradley knocking over a lamp, etc. as the cause.\n\nWhat I would like to see is some serious discussion of this incident. I\nbelieve the moves made were right and proper, but I still have some problems\nwith some of the tactics. After watching the ABC special on it tonight, as\nwell as CNN and Nightline, I question some of the ATF and FBI actions.\n\n1) Could it have been possible to have taken Koresh outside the compound at\nsome time before the Feb. 28th raid?\n\n2) Could a further wait have resulted in a different outcome.\n\n3) Were FBI actions (blaring loudspeakers, etc.) the \"right\" course of action?\n\nAnd a few other questions. Like I said, I believe the actions taken, in\ngeneral, were proper. But I still have some reservations.", "\n\n The lethality in small part, but mostly what I found frightening \nwas the fact that they were wielded by people who believed that they \nate breakfast every morning with Jesus Christ. Now I wasn't there in \nGalilee back in the Roman occupation, so I don't know for certain that \nDavid Koresh was not Jesus Christ, but I strongly suspect that he was \nnot (even aside from the fact of never having seen them in a photograph \ntogether).\n\n\n I admit I can't cite a specific, but if there isn't a law against \npurchasing grenade components and assembling them into functioning units \nthen perhaps we need one. All second ammendment arguments aside, I'm just \nnot sure that I like the idea of private citizens with hand grenades.\n", "\n\nI am not exactly known as a Flower Child Pacifist, but lets call\ncowpoop cowpoop.\n\n\"The peaceful attempt to serve the warrant\" consisted of the following\nactions, in order:\n\n1) BATF agents forcing their entry of the \"compound\" through second\nstory windows.\n\n2) BATF agents loosing some grenades (allegedly \"stun\" or \"flash\"\ngrenades) which promptly detonated.\n\n*After* which, according to the tapes I have seen, the B-D\nstarted shooting back.\n\nNow exactly how is it that someone breaking into private property\nand tossing grenades around is considered \"peaceful\" by\n*anyone*? You *think* on that.\n\n(Which is not to say I do not still hold my previous and\nentirely correct notions about what should be worn and\nwhat arms should be used in assaulting a building.)\n", "\nAw, gee, and whose fault is THAT?\n\n\nDear, dear. They could have COME OUT.\n\n\nDear, dear. They could have COME OUT.\n\n The gas began filling the air,\n\nIt couldn't have gotten too heavy with all that wind blowing through.\n\nScattered throughout the house, the cult members made no efforts to\n\nSad, but they COULD HAVE COME OUT.\n", "\t[...deleted...]\n\nUnfortunately, I think you've got it figured pretty well. I also ask\nmyself the question \"Why did they plan for so many months. Why was\nthis so important to them? What was the government really up to?\nWhy did they seal the warrant? Were they after Koresh or were they after \nthe first and second amendments, among others?\n", "\n\nThe BATF is there to collect taxes, not to protect your sorry ass or mine.\n\n\nAll flame-bait, of course. If you really want to be flame bait, send me\nyour address and I'll tell the BATF about those automatic weapons you\nhave stockpiled. You'll be warm in no time.\n-- ", "And \n\nAnd Bejing = Peking, who cares about native tongue, as long as we all \nunderstand each other.\n\n\nOh, not more than a few feet, I wouldn't think. I'm sorry IF your paternal \ngrandparents died in Oswiecym or Aushwitz, which is easier to say than prove, \nbut if so, the lesson they paid thier lives for was wasted on you.\n\n\nYou are the expert. I often feel compelled to brag about the circumstances of \nmy grandparent's death. 8-}\n\n\nA BATF offense, if true.\n\n\nA LOCAL offense, if true. Totally outside the BATF's domain.\n\n\nI didn't know the man. Just what the TV chose to tell me.\n\n\nI thought there were prejudicial undertones here. I would trust my daughter's \njudgement.\n\n\nI don't believe either side blindly.\n\nIF they fired first, without announcing in a beleivable way who they were ( I \ncan pound on your door and claim to be the police, will you just lay down and \ntake it if I do?), then he could be justified in firing on the ATF in \nself-defense.\n\n\n\"His background\"? What law has he been convicted of breaking in the past?\n\nJim\n--\njmd@handheld.com", "\nNOT an accurate analogy. David Koresh did not take a bunch of\nhostages and then call the BATF with a ransom note. You make\nit sound as if the BATF showed up to save those children in the\nfirst place. I have some interesting news for youBATF\nhas absolutely NO jurisdiction in child abuse cases. \n\nIt seems to me that the BATF showed up, took the Davidians hostage. \nThen the FBI showed up, negotiated to have a few of the hostages \nreleased, but were unable to keep the BATF from killing the rest \nof the poor people trapped inside the compound.\n\n Steve Martin\n Steve_Martin@msmgate.mrg.uswest.com", "\n\n There was at least one blast consistent with petroleum products that I\nsaw, however propane is interesting stuff. It doesn't explode on contact with\nair. It is *possible* for a tank to rupture without exploding. Far more\nlikely, however, is that the compound was equipped with NG outlets running to\nthe tank. Damage from the CEV's could have ruptured the gas lines, allowing\nthe gas to spread, unnoticed in the CS fumes and general excitement (propane\ntypically has a distinctive odor added to it for just this reason -- to smell\nleaks), until reaching a flame or spark, and then Whooosh! Fire everywhere,\nand maybe an explosion. Use of NG is pretty common in Texas, especially\nsemi-rural areas.\n\n\n This is true, but so far the FBI/BATF track record on this incident is very\nbad.\n\n\n I think it would have disarmed many people if the FBI followed this same\npolicy. They have not. They are making claims without evidence, and what\nevidence we have so far tends to refute their story.\n\nsemper fi,", "good job to whoever posted the article. I'd\nbeen saving that NYTimes edition for a while, planning to ytpe it\nin myself, but now I don't have to.\n\nFor all of those people who were worried about whether or not\nthe media would even question the raid, we owe it to the\nNY Times (despite their rabidly anti-gun editorials) for \nbeing willing to talk to these 4 BATF agents.", "\n\nI keep hearing this, but every assertion of this form has come from\ngovernment sources except two. As far as I am concerned, I am not\nready to stipulate that Koresh EVER promised to come out except for\nhis first promise and his last promise.\n\nThe first promise was conditional on his audio tape being given \nNATIONAL exposure. Well, it never was -- it was broadcast locally,\nin a chopped-up fashion, and that's all. And even then, they cleverly \ncut it off when it got to the part where he demanded \"national exposure,\"\nbut not so cleverly that we didn't hear it.\n\nThe last promise was conditional on the finishing of his manuscript.\nWe'll never know if he would have kept that one.\n\n\nStrangely enough, the previous day they said they were prepared to\n\"wait as long as it takes.\"\n\n\nQuite possible. But arguments of intent do not mark the dividing \nline between guilt and innocence -- only the line between murder and \nnegligent manslaughter.\n\n\nThis would be an interesting development.\n\n\nIt's too tempting for one or more of the survivors to \"go state's\nevidence,\" parrot the FBI story, hang the whole \"suicide\" on Koresh, \nclaim they only stayed at gunpoint, etc. If any of them do this\nin the next few weeks, it doesn't prove much; but if none of them\ndo, it would be a strong indication to me that the FBI story is\ndead wrong.\n-- ", "Janet Reno killed the Waco children. She is responsible for\ntheir deaths. She should resign immediately. She should have \nunderstood that David Koresh was a madman who would do anything\nagainst the children if he became provoked. All the warning \nsigns were there and she ignored them. She provoked Koresh\ninto killing the children.\n\nThe situation in Waco was similar to a hostage situation with \na madman holding a gun against the head of an innocent person.\nIn such a situation, a person who provokes the madman and causes \nhim to pull the gun's trigger is responsible for the death of the\nhostage. Janet Reno blindly stumbled in there and basically\nthrew a tear gas container at the madman hoping that he would\nrelease the hostage. It's no surprise that the madman would\npull the trigger in response to that kind of provocation.\n", ":What happened in Waco is not the fault of the BATF. If they would of\n:had the proper equipment and personal then they could of captured the\n:\n:With the WoD and the increased crime in the streets the BATF is needed\n:more now then ever. If they blast away a few good fokes then that is\n:\n:With the arms build up in Waco they needed to hit that compound with\n:mega fire power. They could of gone in there blasting and killed a few\n\nI hope this is a joke... if not, here's my response:\n\nThe BATF has a history of no-knock raids with poor evidence, often resulting in\ninnocent people being killed or suffering injury to person or property. I will\nNOT support the BATF until they clean up their act... Maybe... As to equipment,\nthe BATF has damn near anything it wants... Their faults were in intelligence\n(military and civilian definitions apply), tactics (attacking during DAYLIGHT??), methodology (the FBI stated that it is against government policy to assault\na position where there are non-combatants/potential hostages without attempting\nnegotiations first), and legality. The BATF's jurisdiction is TAXES on firearms\nand tobacco. They are a branch of the department of the treasury. They have\nvery curiously backed away from their claims of illegal weaponry to push the\nchild-abuse charges... The BATF has no jurisdiction over non-firearms/tobacco\nissues! And the charges of child-abuse had been investigated in the past with\nno violence and no validation. This was a clear case of first the BATF, then\nthe FBI, having watched too many Rambo movies... My opinion is that the agent\nin charge should be charged with executing an illegal raid, criminal negligence,\nmurder, civil rights violations, and breaking his/her oath to uphold and defend\nthe Constitution of the US. The warrant should be unsealed to reveal to the \npublic what justification the BATF thought it had in committing an armed assault\non American citizens. And while on the issue of investigating this issue,\nthe Randy Weaver case and the Johnny Lawmaster case should be investigated for\nBATF wrongdoing.\n\nJames\n\nbtw, if the BATF came busting in my windows with concussion grenades, you could damn well bet I would return fire to the utmost of my ability.\n\n\n", "Hmmm... I hadn't heard about rockets. ATF must be escalating their\ntall tails... anyway\n\nWhy should they have \"done something\"? The Davidians had not attacked\nor even threatened anyone.\n\n\nIt is not yours nor the governments right to tell others what they have\na legitimate right to own.\n\n\nIs child abuse now within the jurisdiction of the department of the\ntreasury? Attacking citizens without due process on the strength of\nunsubstantiated rumors about a violation of a law which does not\nfall under your jurisdiction is a pretty serious breech of rights.\n\n\nIf he gets any more done we will really be in trouble!", "\n\nTitle 18, 241 and/or 242 seem to apply. 241 is conspiracy (two or\nmore persons) against rights of citizens. 242 is deprivation of\nrights under color of law. Both call for up to life in prison if\ndeath occurs. Reno, Bentsen, and Clinton are probably all principals\nto the crime (as they are responsible for authorized actions on the\npart of their subordinates). \n\n\nYou forgot one detail, they should be turned over to the Texas\nauthorities for trial, as the crime was committed there (Article 4,\nsection 2). \n\n--\nCharles Scripter * cescript@phy.mtu.edu\nDept of Physics, Michigan Tech, Houghton, MI 49931", "And just where is the evidence for this? FBI sayso. The Texas Medical\nExaminer refuted 2 of their lies today.\n\n\n\nLet me put you in a building, pump in CS, knock the walls down around\nyou and see how fast you find an exit.\n\nI don't know why either, you're willing to swallow everything fed you.\nGood boy.\n\n\nOh a Clinton apologist, why didn't you *say* so.\n\n\nThe kgBATF was expecting a quick victory while the cameras rolled,\nhowever, they were the only ones with a script.\n\n\nHey, you're the apologist, *you* tell us.\n\n\n", "\n\nI leave the anti-semitism to anti-gun types like Holly Silva. I have in\nfact been calling for the disbanding of the BATF for quite some time.\nIt is an outlaw agency run by incompetants who only have contempt for\nthe laws which they supposedly enforce.\n\nI attribute the acts of the FBI to stupidity. I attribute the acts of\nthe BATF to malice. So did Senator Dennis DeConcini when he held\nhearings about their misconduct.\n\n", "\nNeither. \n\n\nYou don't have to pay attention to any one source, neither do you\nhave to abandon your critical thinking, but to disregard all sources\nof information as 'lies' and 'distortions' and substitute your own\npet theories is more likely to get you wild untruths than by basing\nyour theories on the 'facts' as they are reported by the media and\nthe government.\n\n\nActually there was evidence of the fire being set deliberately -\nboth testamony by the survivors and IR tape showing the fire\nbeing set in 3 places AND the petrochemical soot that the fire \nwas giving off (indications of kerosine or gasoline feeding the\nfire). \n\nYou might not believe 1 or 2 if you are totally paranoid or very\nskeptical, but my 3rd point is visible to anyone who watches the\ntapes of the fire and has started a BBQ grill.\n\n\nHo ho ho. I listen to NPR, watch CNN, NBC. I also read the\npapers. Where do you get YOURS?\n", "\n\tThis morning on CNN (tues April 27), Texas Cops say Arson is suspected\n\tbecause of two falsh points. CNN also stated that _all_ surviors\n\tclaim the fires are FBI set. Your argument are made-up, untrue\n\tand unverified at best.\n\n The day of the attack the FBI claimed to have seen two BD'ers setting\n the fire outside of the compound. Yesterday, the arson squad said two \n flash points at the or near the tank entry points\n\n Not good evidence for the FBI hit squad.\n\n is there a difference between thinking that you won't survive a confrontation\n with the FBI (parnoia?) and committing suicide?\n\n\n\tNo, claimed by the escapees not contradicted\n\n\tWhat I'm finding interesting is the conflicting reports. FBI says\n\tthat bodies have been found with bullet wounds and the Texas Cornuers\n\t(sp) says that they haven't yet found any bullet holes..\n\n", "\nMoreover, the BATF has admitted having agents in the compound, and as\nfar as I have been able to ascertain, those agents were still in the\ncompound when the first shots were fired. For all we know, these two\npeople may BE the agents, who would certainly be unlikely to stay around\nand \"cook\" with the faithful...\n\nAssuming the two people in question were even in the compound at all.\n\nMaybe I sound paranoid, but I watched Janet Reno last night harping on\nhow much David Koresh was a big, bad child abuser, and I kept wondering \nwhy she -- much less BATF -- wanted us to infer that she had any \njurisdiction over such accusations in the first place.\n\nI'm POSITIVE that the \"sealed warrant\" is not for child abuse. What was\nit for? Peobably weapons violations. Janet Reno didn't say WORD ONE\nlast night about weapons violations. Why? Because she knows that such\na case is no longer believable?\n-- ", "I'm putting together a list of the civil rights violations perpetrated against\nthe Davidians by the FBI/BATF. Here is what I've got so far. Care to add\nany or provide more backup info?\n\nFirst Amendment:\n1) FBI/BATF violated Davidians right to free exercise of religion from the \n\tstart. We now have a de facto precident against any minority religion.\n2) FBI/BATF violated BD right to free speach by:\n\ta> preventing them to speak to media\n\tb> preventing them from practicing their beliefs\n3) FBI/BATF violated the freedom of the press by:\n\ta> keeping them 2 miles from the Davidians\n\tb> preventing the media to cover the FBI/BATF actions close-up\n\tc> censoring media reports\n4) FBI/BATF violated the BD's right to peaceable assemble\n\ta> proven by initial baseless assault\n\nSecond Amendment:\n1) The BATF went after them because they had too many guns and guns that the\n\tFBI/BATF didn't approve of. 'Nuff Said.\n\nFourth Amendment:\n1) The right of the BD's to be \"secure in their persons, houses, papers, and\n effects against unreasonable searches and seizures\" was violated by:\n\ta> Initial baseless assault\n\nFifth Amendment:\n1) The Davidians were \"held to answer for a capital or otherwise infamous\n crime\" without a \"presentment or indictment by a Grand Jury.\"\n2) The Davidians were \"deprived of life, liberty, and property without due \n process of law.\n\nSixth Amendment:\n1) The accused were denied the right to \"a speedy and public trial by an\n impartial jury\" when the FBI became judge, jury and executioner.\n2) The BD's were never informed of the specific \"nature anad cause of the\n accusation.\"\n\nEighth Amendment:\n1) The Davidians suffered cruel and unusual punishment when:\n\ta> The FBI cut off the water to the ranch\n\tb> The FBI used Psy-War (loudspeakers broacasting the screams of\n\t dying rabbits and Tibetian Chants)\n\tc> The FBI prevented family members from contacting their family\n\t inside the ranch.\n\td> The FBI used tear-gas against them (especially the children)\n\te> The FBI burned the ranch down.\n\tf> Thoes who escaped were imprisoned without bail without a hearing.\n\nAnything I miss?", "\nThe 24 children were, of course, killed by a lone gunman in a second story\nwindow, who fired eight bullets in the space of two seconds...\n", "\nI have already called senators, legislators and the Governor demanding\nthat the warrants be unsealed, and that all involved in this atrocity\n(including the President, Attorney General and Governor) be suspended\npending an investigation.\n\nI seriously doubt, however, that anything will ever be done.\n\n\nWelcome to Amerika!\n\n", "\nI assume you have evidence that he was responsible for the deaths?\n \n\nAgain, I'd like to see some evidence.\n \n\nOnce again, where's your proof? Suicide is considered a sin by Branch\nDavidians. Also, Koresh said over and over again that he was not going to\ncommit suicide. Furthermore, all the cult experts said that he was not\nsuicidal. David Thibedeau (sp?), one of the cult members, said that the fire\nwas started when one of the tanks spraying the tear gas into the facilities\nknocked over a lantern.\n \n\nEvidence please?\n\n\nI'd like to point out that the Bible says \"Do not commit murder.\" The NKJ\ntranslation mistranslates. Self-defense was never considered murder. The\nreason why they were stockpiling weapons is because they were afraid the\ngovernment would try something. Their fears were obviously well founded.\n--Ray Cote", "\n: failed to mention the Davidians pouring kerosene all over and lighting it in\n: plain view.\n\n Brent, I'm still waiting to see if there are any evidence of how the fire\ngot started, so I'm not going to tell you who did it... As far as you keep\ntalking about the Davidians pouring kerosene all over, stop and *think*\nfor a second if it is possible the stove or lamp was knocked over and\nstarted a fire, and the Davidians were pouring water on it (wrong solution\nbut I doubt I can do much better in their states of mind...) to try to\nput it out? \n\n By the way, just how far where you standing from the Davidians when you\nsaw them setting the place on fire? Oh, in case you are new in town,\nmicrowave ovens doesn't work very well when there's no electricty. :-0\n\n Get some *facts* before you post next time!", "\nI suppose after Waco, it's only prudent to leave the \"to the death\" part out.", "\n\tThe word \"released\" is loaded: until convicted in CXOurt,\n\tmy children are my own.", "[Joe, why don't you put your username on your account?]\n\n\n\nOr claims to have discovered so... It would hardly be the first time\nthey raided someone based on incorrect evidence.\n\n\nIt was a \"no-knock\", according to the Associated Press report.\nHere's something I found in my collection:\n\n Excerpts from an article in the Knoxville News-Sentinel Final\n Edition Monday, March 1, 1993 (the byline is associated press):\n\n WACO, Texas - Fierce gun battles erupted Sunday as more than 100\n law officers tried to arrest the leader of a heavily armed\n religious cult. At least four federal agents and two cult members\n were reported killed. [...]\n\n The gun battles began when federal agents hidden in livestock\n trailers stormed the sect's head-quarters Sunday morning,\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n witnesses said. The agents had warrants to search for guns and\n explosives and to arrest Howell, said Les Stanford of the ATF in\n Washington. [...]\n\n Witnesses said the law officers stormed the compound's main home,\n throwing concussion grenades and screaming \"Come out,\" while three\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n National Guard helicopters approached. For a moment, there was no\n response. Then the shooting began. \n\nI think \"storming the sect's head-quaters\" and \"throwing concussion\ngrenades\" qualifies as a no-knock (or perhaps an illegal assault).\n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nProbably not. But then again, neither are you.\n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nAnd just what is \"his background\"? What prior crimes had he been\nCONVICTED of?\n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nSorry, BATF are \"Federal TAX Enforcement officials\". They're not\npolice, nor do they have police powers.\n\n--\nCharles Scripter * cescript@phy.mtu.edu\nDept of Physics, Michigan Tech, Houghton, MI 49931", "\nFirst of all, I wouldn't have gone after the Davidians for a firearms\nviolation which I object to in the first place. Second, I wouldn't\nhave executed a search warrant via an armed assault when all the\nDavidians were sure to have been there. Third of all, I wouldn't have\ncut off all outside communication to Koresh. And I certainly wouldn't\nhave gone in with a tank-- time was on the FBIs side. Since they had\noutside resupply, they could wait indefinitely.\n\n", "\nUnworthy of comment.\n\n\nNor would they have died if they had come out with their hands empty.\nThat is undeniable truth. My heart bleeds just as much as yours for \nthe children who were never released given 51 days of ample opportunities \nto do so. My heart also bleeds for people so blinded by religious devotion \nto not have the common sense to leave the compound when tanks came up \nand started dropping in tear gas early in the morning.\n\n\nI do not think this. However, if they did set the fire (which started in \nmore than one place and spread very quickly), then they got what they \nwanted and put into motion themselves.\n\nI see the BATF is going to be investigated by the Justice Dept. and likely \nby Arlen Spectre and congress. This is good. They have bungled the affair \nfrom the start.\n\n\n", "Did anyone else notice how the question of what federal\nlaws were violated was brushed aside? I'd like to know\nwhat laws were violated, and on what evidence the orignial\nBATF warrants were based.\n", "[reply to jimh@carson.u.washington.edu (James Hogan)]\n \n \nI take the view that they are here for our entertainment. When they are\nno longer entertaining, into the kill file they go.", "Relay of coverage seen:\n----------------------\nThere was a press conference by authorities at the compound on CNN earlier \ntoday (Wednesday). It was explained that two news photographers were found \non the compound earlier this morning without permission. It was explained \nto the press corps. that this is dangerous and that an unknown photographer \nturning around with a long lens camera could be mistaken for someone dangerous \nby a Texas Ranger surveying the site. (!) \n\nThe two photographers were said to be currently in jail and \nthe press were warned to follow the authorities' guidelines. \nIt was also emphasized that the survey of the \"crime\" scene at this \npoint was crucial and that the press could not be allowed to interfere.\nThe press will not be allowed in until the bodies are removed and the \nsite has been completely surveyed for evidence for a court case. \n\nThat is the gist of the beginning of the conference to the best of my \nmemory. I bring this up because I haven't seen anyone else note it \nand I haven't seen the regular newscasts mention it. It will \nprobably be mentioned in the papers tomorrow.\n\nMy opinions:\n-----------\nI find this disturbing. While I believe that Koresh is largely \nresponsible for not ending this standoff in a peacable manner during the \nlast 51 days of patient opportunity, I find the secrecy surrounding the \naftermath more damaging to the authorities' position than they realize.\n\nSince the vast majority of potential defendents in a court case are \nalready dead, the emphasis on the importance of building the court \ncase seems overblown to me.\n\nIt will be interesting to see the hearings on this affair. I have also \nheard congressional calls for a review and possible overhaul of government \nenforcement agencies which you will recall I have stated would be a good \nidea in previous months.\n\nPlease also note that I by no means endorse or agree with the many \nconspiracy-type theories I have read here and in other groups. As usual, \nI am basing my opinions on info gathered from various media and filtered \nby my own common sense and consideration of plausibility, IMHO. As such, \nmy opinion is subject to change as more information is made available.\n\n\nScott Roby Standard Disclaimer", "/>/:/g\nj:Maybe they WANTED it to look like murder. He had 50+ days. I think this was\n:>coming the whole time. He didn't even put the children in the buried bus or\n:>the underground bunker during the CS seige. He put them up into the tower\n:>to die.\n:\n:\tIs CS gas lighter or heavier than air? Do you know? If the\n\nCS is heavier than air... most chemical weapons are...\n", "\n\n Which one? The one yesterday, or has there been another? If it was yester-\nday, catch up.\n\n IMO, 90% of all \"conspiracy\" charges are easily explained by the simple\nfact that in these days of instantaneous news transmission, all kinds of\nstuff gets said when people really just don't know what the hell's going on.\nThen the story changes once the facts are in and suddenly cries of \"its all a \nwhitewash!\" start. Naturally, everybody wants to cover his/her ass.\n\n\n Damnfino. I just tend to take issue with absolute statements that are ob-\nviously wrong on their face and tend to inflame, not inform. The isolation\nwas significant, but not total.\n\nsemper fi,", "...\n\n\tIt's amazing how everyone automatically blames one side or the other.\n\tOne thing for sure: Koresh will have no chance to defend himself\n\tagainst the statements (lacking in fact or COurt sponsored verification)\n\tmade by agents who participated in the situation that killed him.\n\n\t\tI don't know they murdered him; I also don't know\n\t\tthat the Branch Davidians set a fire and suicidede.\n\n\t\tIt is SICK of BATF or FBI spokepeople to make such\n\t\tcomments in advance of forensic pathology.\n\n\tStephen: thank you. God speed. \n\n\n\tYah.\n\n\n\tBINGO. Am I the only one to notice:\n\ta)\tNo peaceful attempt to serve a warrant.\n\tb)\tSix months to develop a scene and six days to end it?\n\tc)\t.... ah God:\n\n\t\t\t25 children\n\t\t\tat least 64 adults\n\t\t\tplus 6 at the beginning\n\t\t\tand more BATF agents\n\n\t\t\tall dead.\n\n\n\tHas anyone asked themselves these questions:\n\n\t1) Have you seen the ENTIRE video sequences taken during the\n\t opening rounds? I seem to recall missing several key parts:\n\t\ta) The first five minutes of day one; only the shooting\n\t\t part comes out.\n\t\tb) What happened to the Feds video units? You mean they do\n\t\t not carry helmet cams? Wonder why not?\n\t2) How is it you can have camera crews with live transmission\n\t video present and NOT have an uninterrupted record?\n\n\t\ta) You realize the units carry ittle bitty 8mm backups?\n\t\t\tThat hold 90 minutes per unit? And there are\n\t\t\ttwounits on the professional handhelds (so no\n\t\t\ttape turnover gaps)?\n\t\tb) Until all views are seen, it is premature to point\n\t\t\tfingers in either direction.\n\n\tAs you well point out, Stephen.\n\n\n\tMore on this below.\n\n\n\tYes. But it is so hard toremain human under the full\n\tpressure of hazard, game playing, and life.\n\n\n\tMore to the point: when someone dies (almost like it was intended\n\tthat way), both sides will kill to maintain their innocence --\n\t\ta contradiction in terms.\n\n\n\tTrue. Usually I pick the unpopular side and point out\n\tfrom the evidence seen what might have alternatively happened.\n\n\n\tThis requires someone interested in God's Will. Please note\n\tthat the outstanding _overt_ problem in this country today\n\tis one where the Government:\n\n\t\twants Caesar's coin to pay off the debt.\n\n\n\tYes: The AMerican People. Not the Federal Government.\n\tANd if it is not spent towards that end, _no_one_ deserves\n\tthe coin.\n\n\n\n\tYah. Fewpeople hear the contradiction:\n\n\t\tMoney\n\t\tmade\n\t\tin the image\n\t\tof God\n\n\n\tI wish you were wrong. Many pundits are saying 3 years.\n\tThe onyl good thing to come out of my divorce (and my\n\texposure to the Damned (pardon me) American Divorce Attorney\n\tis:\n\n\t\tI have no money left to lose to taxes or inflation.\n\n\n\t25 children dead. If anyone thinks blaming Koresh -- or the BATF\n\thelps this any at all, is sick. and wrong.\n\n\t\tThe reason you can tell that the BATF may not be entirely\n\t\tstraight on this is that the leaders at press conferences\n\t\thavew made ANY comments about even the POSSIBILITY that\n\t\tKoresh or his followers caused this.\n\n\t\tThe BATF agentss are more concerned with their repuations\n\t\tand morals (\"not my fault, Koresh did it!\") than they\n\t\tare with:\n\n\t\t\t25 dead children.\n\n\tSame goes for Koresh & his followers - who are all (mostly) dead.\n\n\n\tMore on power and favoritism. (My personal opinion).\n\n\tLook to history: whenever privilege has replaced whatever\n\ttoken of objective law and justice a society has had,\n\n\t\tHitlerrs have followed.\n\n\n\tYou do your name sake proud, Stephen.\n\tIts hard, but please keep on keeping on:\n\t\teach voice in the wilderness now will\n\t\tsave a generation unborn from horror\n\n\n\tThe day I _need_ a gun or abomb to protect myself in this\n\tsociety is the day that society is already beyond redemption\n\n\t\tand that aint' redundant, if you have any Christian\n\t\tbelief aytall.\n\n\t... and the day that I cannot peacefully enjoin others in the\n\tact that Thoreau called Civil Disobedience to rectify the\n\twrongs that my society practises, without undue harm or\n\tpunishment befalling me, is the day that society has ceased to\n\tbe a human society, and become a society of animals.\n\n\t\tWe are _very_ cclose to that.\n\n\n\tSix years fighting an unjust COurt issue: still struggling to be\n\tpatient.\n\nFor those who like contrary questions:\n\n\tNB: I was not there. I am not a Branch Davidian nor a law\n\tofficial hater. I do hate liars or the six letter variety of same.\n\tThe official side has its advocates already; lets balance the\n\tequation and asj a few questions on the other side, for the sake\n\tof an old saw the BATF abd FBI seem to want to bypass:\n\n\t\tinnocent until proven guilty.\n\tnot\n\t\tinnocent until presumed guilty.\n\n\t1) Where are the video tapes from the tanks? ALL of them.\n\n\t\tDon't tell me they do not exist. They are standard\n\t\tequipment.\n\n\t2) So you think Koresh fired the place, because of the explosion?\n\n\t\ta) Tear gas comes with an aerosol to spread it. This\n\t\t aerosol is DELIBERATELY made to be as non-flammable\n\t\t as possible. It is as non-flammable as possible.\n\n\t\t\t.... gotcha!\n\n\t\t ... when in isolation from other substances.\n\n\t\t WHy was a pipe deliveryu system used rather than remote\n\t\t launchers? WHy did the FBI not announce \"this window,\n\t\t blown in plus tear gas, five minutes; then the wall come\n\t\t down\", and maintain a left to right sequence?\n\n\t\tb) Most aerosols also have a secondary compound, that when\n\t\t mixed in, becomes a VERY flammable (and difficult to trace)\n\t\t suspension, with a VERY special property: exposure to\n\t\t brief eruptions of high heat (muzzle blasts) or long\n\t\t exposure to low heat (matches, a stove) will NOT tend\n\t\t to ignite.\n\n\t\t\tWhat other chemicals come up in the forensics?\n\t\t\tWho else will be allowed to test the site?\n\n\t\tc) After a few minutes to hours (ifdesired, the combnation\n\t\t rate can be controlled as desired), the mixture can be made\n\t\t to become veryignitable onb exposure to a temperature\n\t\t above a certain point (a tracer round) for a certain\n\t\t heat quantity (a small explosive charge) or for a length\n\t\t of time (start a wall fire and wait).\n\n\t\t\tCheck your military records; look at the tapes.\n\t\t\tWhy were tanks (large capacity delivey systems),\n\t\t\ttear gas (why not somnorifics?), and now (why\n\t\t\tthe hurry. was there still a comm channel open\n\t\t\tto the outside?).\n\n\t\t\tDo you see any trace of fire coming BACK to the\n\t\t\tcompound in the videos? ALL the videos? Which ones\n\t\t\tare missing?\n\n\tDo I sound paranoid? Maybe. Am I? Probably not.\n\tYou trust the FBI and BATF to render judgement?\n\t\tIN advance of a Court? God help us.\n\t\t\t(For we are surely not helping ourselves).\n\tYou trut the Federal Gevernment to give us a clean slate?\n\n\t\tYou are 4.3 trillion (admitted!) down and counting.\n\t\tLook again.\n\n\tDid it happen that way? I do not know. I was not there.\n\t\tAND IT SHOULD WAIT FOR A COURT TO DECIDE.\n\tBut will that happen? 89 people will NOT have the chance\n\t\tto tell their side as the BATF leader was, on camera.\n\nNo one wins. Except: more force next time.\n\n\tListen to your hearts, people.\n\nThanx again Stephen.\n\nroy andrew crabtree", "\n True. Today's Boston Globe interviewed a former Unification Church\n leader who is now a consultant on cults. He said the FBI's approach\n was totally wrong. He said they should have tried to break down the \n BD's loyalty to Koresh through psychological means. Koresh's whole\n theology was based on an approaching confrontation with the forces \n of evil in the world and a seige mentality based on this. The Feds\n played into his hands **PERFECTLY**. By surrounding the compound\n with tanks and playing loud rock music and glaring lights at them \n they strongly reinforced Koresh's message that the outside world was\n evil and threatening. He said instead they should have set up \n a picnic atmosphere, and acted inviting and friendly. If they\n broadcast anything over PA systems it should have been loving \n relatives reflecting on pleasant events from the cult members'\n childhoods. The idea is to make the outside world and surrender\n seem like a pleasant, desirable alternative. Interesting comments.\n", "\n\nDrop three billiard balls on a ramp, and they all roll in the same\ndirection. Pour some blood into the sea, and sharks will converge\nfrom miles around. Throw a pebble at one starling, and all 200 will\ndepart.\n\nNatural processes can mimic the outward results of conspiracy when no\nactual conspiracy is required.\n\nPut a government functionary in an embarrassing situation, and he\nquickly covers his ass.\n\nThis, too, is completely natural.\n\n\nIt looks that way to me, too. But you have to understand that it's NOT \nthe first time they have instigated raids like these. The most recent\none ALSO ended up in a long standoff, but it wasn't quite as public\nas this one, and they didn't kill quite as many people. Maybe this \nscrewup will make them think long and hard about raiding any more \nresidences in this manner. But probably not.\n\n\nI assume you're talking about Philadelphia.\n\n\nIf you're a fan of conspiracies, the time to make that batch of\npopcorn is AFTER the screwup, when it's time for the coverup.\n-- ", "\n: >What happened in Waco is not the fault of the BATF. If they would of\n: >had the proper equipment and personal then they could of captured the\n: >compound on the initial assault and none of this would of happened.\nThe BATF is a part of the dept. of treasury, not justice. If they needed\nto assault a place they could just do like the IRS does...call in the\nfederal marshalls service, their fugitive collection teams do similar type\nassaults all the time. And they are very, very good about it, in both the\ntactical and legal parts of it. But I suspect that the marshalls would\nnot have touched it, because the search warrant (which is still sealed I\nbelieve) was so bogus. \n\nBesides the BATF also could have gotton SWAT teams from: federal marshalls\nservice; FBI; secret service; national park service; texas rangers; nearby\nlarge city police forces; the military. But they had to use their own\nguys, nobody elses SWAT team was good enough for the holy cause of gun\ncontrol. \n\n\tI also find the timing of the raid to be extremely interesting. \nInitial raid: two days before the NJ senate was going to overturn their\n\"assault weapon\" confiscation law; a couple weeks before the BATF's budget\nwas going to come up in congress for review; shortly after Reno got\nconfirmed as AG (I don't need to remind you about her anti-gun line);\nright around the presidents 100th day in office. As a wise man once\naction. I don't believe that these four things are conincidental. Do\nyou? \n\n\nfood for thought...", "\n\n\n\nAnd they work especially well when the Feds have cut off your utilities.\n-- ", "From article , by hallam@dscomsa.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker):\n[stuff about British cult members deleted]\n\nThey were using 50 caliber ammunition not 50mm ammo. 50mm would be 5cm; a\nshell of this size would be larger than a lot of cannon shells.\n\nSnipers could have screened the people trying to put out the fire. Besides,\nthe ranch house (not \"fort apocalypse\"; it was just a house despite what\nthe FBI and ATF says) was on *fire*. The \"Gun loonies\" couldn't hardly\nhave been shooting at fire men while there house was engulfed in flames.\nThe FBI and ATF don't have any excuse for not having fire engines there\nto put out the blaze. The bastards waited until the fire was *well*\nunder way before they called the fire department in Waco. They didn't\neven tell the fire department to be on standby. I sincerely hope that\nthe FBI, ATF, Attorney General Janet Reno, and all others involved in\nthis fiasco get the just punishment that they so richly deserve.\nSomeone should pay for this needless, tragic waste of human life.\n\nSadly, these evil SOBs will probably never face justice. The media\nand the government will just whitewash this incident and chalk it\nup as being solely David Koresh's fault. Sadder still, the American\npeople will probably believe them.\n\n\nThis is not the problem...the problem is that we have a government that\nis becoming more tyrannical every day. If people decide to own guns\n*and* live in one place together then that is their prerogative. On\nthe other hand, if the BDs were in posession of explosives and illegal\nguns then the government did have the right to search their compound.\nBut, the allegations that the BDs were in posession of illegal weapons\nhasn't been proven yet, so I'm not going to conclude that the BDs broke\nany laws. David Koresh was accused of abusing children, but if this\nis his *only* crime then the presence of the ATF can't be justified.\nThe ATF is only supposed to deal with firearms, tobacco, and alcohol\nviolations. ATF agents are basically cigarette cops...they should\nstay out of other kinds of law-enforcement actions that are out of\ntheir jurisdiction. Better yet, they should be s**tcanned IMO.\n\n\nSounds like something the SS would do. Human life---children and adults\nalike---should be treated with respect---even if they are \"heavily-armed\nreligious wackos\".\n\nDavid Koresh's lawyer seemed to think that everyone *would* come out\npeacefully sooner or later. The FBI and ATF had NOTHING BUT TIME ON\nTHEIR HANDS! Why did they have to escalate the situation and cause\nthis senseless tragedy? Their job is to protect the public and SAVE\nLIVES NOT KILL PEOPLE for crying out loud.\n\n \nDon't be so sure about that. I read in a newspaper today that one of the\ncult members said that when one of the tanks went through the wall that\nit knocked over a lantern which caused the ranch house to be caught on\nfire. This cult member also said that David Koresh had *no* intentions\nof committing mass suicide. David Koresh's lawyer also confirms this.\nTherefore, if this is true then this means that the FBI AND ATF MURDERED\nEVERYONE IN THAT HOUSE! Even if this is not true, the FBI and ATF still\ndon't get off the hook because they waited a damn long time to call the\nWaco fire department. Perhaps they wanted all these people to die.\n\n \nYou're wrong on several accounts. ATF agents were adequately armed. They\nhad MP5s, AR-15s, and shotguns. Some agents were armed with automatic\npistols but not all were. The ATF's initial claim---which they later\nretracted---that agents were underarmed is simply ludicrous.\n\n\nGun control isn't the only issue here. If the sick little monkeys in\nWashington try to use the Waco incident as a reason to ban guns then\nthey will have demonstrated just how f***ed up they are. What concerns\nme much more than new gun control legislation is that the government\nseems to be able to get away with s**t like they did in Waco...they are\nbecoming more and more callous about people's rights and the law. This\ngreatly disturbs me and it should disturb you as well.\n\n\n\nScott Kennedy, Brewer and Patriot", "\nAnd this results in a fire that starts in one room and torches the entire place\nbefore anyone in the adjacent rooms can escape? I don't think so. So much for\nthe smolder theory.", "\nI tend to agree, but I would like a better explanation of why the FBI stopped \nthe firetrucks at the gate. I saw this in realtime. It concerns me that the \nFBI \"appeared\" to not be too interested in stopping the fire after it started, \nand actually started flying hueys around the compound, which had to add in some \nsmall part to the winds driving the fire.\n\nJim\n--\njmd@handheld.com", "Look, folks, I don't know what happened in Waco. I do not claim the BDs are \nangels, I never did. Koresh may very well be the devil incarnate. I just \ndon't know. But I do know that I must question any single source of \ninformation, such as we have here. And I must question even harder given that \nit is single source at the insistance of that very government. What ever else \nhappened at WACO, that is perhaps the biggest evil done. And even more so in \nlight of the discrepencies turning up between the federal officials and the \nstate officials.\n\nBut what I really don't understand is the hoards of devoted government \nworshipers who believe the government could not possibly do any wrong. They \nare fanatic to the point of making things up, such as Brent's microwave oven \ndisclaim of the BD's using fire for food heating. \n\nI am hard pressed to see any real difference between the claimed power Koresh \nheld over the BDs, and the demonstrated power the government holds over those \nrapid apologists.\n\n\nJim\n--\njmd@handheld.com", "\n\nLook, I don't want to bore everybody here with the physics of woodstoves,\nbut they're not anything like your Caloric gas range. It takes about\nthree hours for a woodstove to get hot enough to cook on, and afterwards \nyou can't just \"shut it off\" -- it will contain hot embers for over 24 \nhours even after you choke it COMPLETELY.\n\nSo it ain't exactly \"light up the stove and cook me a batch of them \npancakes, Aunt J...\" If you use a woodstove for cooking, or even for\nheating your house at night, you will have it lit to SOME extent all \nthe time. Trust me on this one, I speak from experience.\n-- ", "Broadcasting amplified sounds of tortured rabbits?\n\nBurning alive men, women, and children?\n\nWe have on our hands here some truly sick puppies.\n", "betz@gozer.idbsu.edu \n\nThe FBI and Koresh were calling the shots. And there were very sane reasons \nfor keeping the children, if they let them go, the parents would NEVER see them \nagain. That is not an easy choice, in spite of you cold attitude about it.\n\n\nI am a constitution worshiper. You quite obviously eat anything the \nauthorities feed you, without doubt, which makes you no different that a Koresh \nworshiper\n\nyou \nIf you do not believe this, you are truly naive. It is not only possible, it \nis easy. I worked in the broadcast profession, at a network station, in the \nlate 70s, I know what I'm saying here. Embarrasing footage is easy to get, add \na little sinister music, and the right voice-over, and I'll have you mother \nagreeing to commit you.\n\nThe news shows were looking for excerpts which backed their position. Do you \nthink they would show excerpts which disproved their points?\n\nThe reports of multi-starts came solely from the FBI. Anyone observing the \nfire from the available video would be hard pressed to see more than one point \nof fire. Which spread across the compound as a uniform rate.\n\nit \n\nNo reported has ever sued the government for such a situation. They know the \ndangers. Remember, the BATF invited the initial coverage. And how about a \nsimple, remote-controlled, camera or two? There were ways to provide media \naccess. The FBI obviously just didn't want any.\n\nI can find several. Tear gas and smoke making it impossible to remove the \nbarricades. Flames blocking exits to the saferooms. Perhaps the gun shots were \nfrom the FBI, keeping them pinned in? Who knows?\n\n\nJim\n--\njmd@handheld.com", "\"Freed om of Religion\" has absolutely nothing to do with building a small\narsenal and grooming 10-year old children to be your wife. \"I'll come out\nas soon as I finish my manuscript on the Seven Seals.\" Oh, OK, David.\n\nI agree that Koresh was as much of a victim as a perpetrator; this because\nhe grew up inside the cult, and engaged in a power struggle where his\nsupporters helped inflate his ego.\n\nThat doesn't change the fact that he was a loose fucking cannon with a\nshitload of serious weapons. Or that he was banging thirteen year olds and\ntwisting their impressionable little minds.\n\nThis was no MOVE fuck-up. A helicoptor was thermal-imaging the compound\nthat afternoon and detected three fires erupting almost simultaneously.\nThere were no CS CANISTERS... a specially modified Abrams was pupming the\nstuff in. No chance of starting a fire there. Kerosene lamps? Maybe one,\nbut not three fires. No way. Koresh wasn't just talking out of his ass. I\nexpected this to happen.\n\nMaybe they WANTED it to look like murder. He had 50+ days. I think this was\ncoming the whole time. He didn't even put the children in the buried bus or\nthe underground bunker during the CS seige. He put them up into the tower\nto die. Fuck all of you \"Big Brother\" paranoid freaks. The only good thing\nto come of any of this is that there will be one less group of crazoids to\nattract some of the more rootless members of our society.", "Watch from where? Two miles away? Far enough away that whatever\nreally happenned must be explained through the vengeful filter of\na humiliated agency that said (quote!) \"Enough is enough.\"\n\n\nThe FBI sent letters to Martin Luther King's wife insinuating\nthat MLK was having an affair! Again, please tell us exactly\nhow much you trust our supposedly benevolent government.\n\n\nI suspect that there were plenty of camerapeople willing to\nrisk small arms fire to get some good footage. These people\nwere told to get the hell out of camera range. Why?\n\nDrew ", ": \n: I believe this raid was ill planned because they only had 2 days to plan it,\n: and it was continued when failure was obvious because it had a bit part\n: in the much larger political agenda of President Clinton. I would even \n: suggest that the loss of 4 ATF agents is inconsequential in this the\n: context of his political agenda. It MIGHT even be beneficial to his agenda, \n: as it helps point up just how evil these assualt weapons are. Further proof\n: might be that the ATF denied their agents (Street Stories report) requests\n: for sufficient fire power. \n: \n: Important dates: \n: Feb 25th - NJ assembly votes to overturn assault weapon ban.\n: Feb 28th - Compound in Waco attacked.\t \n: \n: On Feb. 25th the New Jersey assembly voted to overturn the assault weapon\n: ban in that state. It looked like it might be a tight vote, but the Senate\n: in N.J. was going to vote to overturn the ban. It would not sit well to have\n: an Eastern state overturn an assault weapon ban, given Clintons stated\n: agenda on gun control. I suspect Clinton gave the order to get someone or\n: some: group with assualt weapons and have the press present (they were\n: initially\n: at the incident in Waco) to record the event for the TV audience. The agent \n: on \"Street Stories\" reported that a supervisor was urging them all to \"get \n: ready fast\", as \"they know we are coming\". I believe this attack continued, \n: even tho the probablility of failure was high, because it came from the top \n: down. After the N.J. assembly vote, the ATF had a limited amount of time to\n: come up with something, and the Wackos in Waco fit the bill nicely.\n: \n: ...rich \n\n\n I don't know Rich. Last year when the congress was debating the Bushmans\n'Crime Bill', the incident at Lubys' cafe occured. Most of the anti-gun\ncrap was amended out of the bill anyway. \n\n \n Could a president 'order': go find some 'assault weapons' and bring the\nmedia\". I hope not. Frankly, the Toon-meister* scares me. Of course \nhaving a Democratic majority in congress doesn't help. (Apologies to all \nDemos' who support RKBA)\n\n( *definition: toon-meister - a characatureic name for the current \npresident of the U.S.: Clinton aka, Clintoon aka Toon-meister.)", "My theory is that Koresh was seriously wounded in the initial gunbattle\nand died on Day 9 of the siege. On Day 11 of the siege he rose from the\ndead and periodically appeared to his followers and the FBI over the\nnext 40 days. Living with someone who's risen from the dead isn't easy,\nas Timmy Baterman's father in *Pet*Sematary* could attest, so after 40\ndays they did what Baterman did--shot themselves and burned the place\nto the ground.\n\nConsistent with the facts, isn't it? Did anyone actually *see* Koresh\nbetween Day 9 and Day 11?", "gassed.\n\nBut apparently true. My opinion, only, of course.\n\n\nNo, it is not. It is possible the FBI planned for this to happen, and the \ngunfire heard was the FBI keeping the folks inside. I'm not proposing this as \nthe way it went down, but just to point out that it's not \"undeniable\" that if \nthey walked out yesterday, they would be alive today.\n\n\nMy heart \"bleeds\" for no one. You are the \"bleeding heart\". And I'm sure \nbeyond any possible doubt that you do not feel for those people as I do. You \ncan not say the heartless things you have said if you did.\n\n\n\"they got what they wanted\". What kind of creature are you that you can \nbelieve this?\n\nWe agree on this. Now lets have your God, the FBI, investigated, too.\n\n-\nrethought \nlanded \n\nJim\n--\njmd@handheld.com", "tha\n\nAny death is serious. Wanna discuss match control? Firearms related \nunintentional deaths among children ages 14 and under are the fault of one or \nmore negligent persons, not the gun.\n\n\nProviding false hope, then, is the intent?\n\n\n200% increase in California schools, eh? Gun control is working fine, there!\nSo your religion is different. Does that make it his wrong? Even assuming \nKoresh actually made that decision, and the verdict is still out on that.\n\n \n\nJim\n--\njmd@handheld.com", "\n\nSeems to be, barring evidence to the contrary, that Koresh was simply\nanother deranged fanatic who thought it neccessary to take a whole bunch of\nfolks with him, children and all, to satisfy his delusional mania. Jim\nJones, circa 1993.\n\n\nNope - fruitcakes like Koresh have been demonstrating such evil corruption\nfor centuries.", "pmoloney@maths.tcd.ie (Paul Moloney) writes...\n\n\nNever lived out in the country I see. 4 years ago I had a place\nwhere I had to carry in propane every month, hook the bottle up \nto copper line, to supply both the stove, and a type of water-\nheater called a flash-heater. A flash heater has a pilot lamp.\n\nHere's the point. If the Davidians had their propane tanks hooked \nup to copper (or some such) lines, run through the ceiling spaces\n-- when the FBI started wrecking the place, they could easily have\nruptured the lines. Which then would start spreading out through\nthe overhead. And since it was a country home, it wasn't necessarily\nbuilt with non-flamable insulation. \n\nIt's probably more plausible than anything else, that the fire started\nmainly as a result of accident -- or willful negligence on the part of\nthe FBI, which should have known better (ie. manslaughter).\n\nIt's certain that if the tanks hadn't been used that day -- the fire\nwouldn't have started.\n", "\n\nWatch the videotape carefully, the CNN coverage was fairly decisive.\n\nThe first fire starts in the Tower, this is three storeys high and there\nis a flag to the right of it on the picture. The second fire starts \nin another tower which is similar to the first only two storeys high.\nThe flag is on the left in the camera picture that shows this fire\nstarting.\n\nThus the camera pictures cleraly show the fire starting at two separate\nlocations. The FBI report a third. I was not able to verify it from the\nvideotape however someone else identified a fire shown to be starting behind\nthe small tower in the second (flag on left) camera angle.\n\n\nThe flames coming out of the building are yellow/orange. This is the\nnormal colour for carbon compounds burning. The flames were those of a \nsolid or confined liquid burning, not of a gas exploding. \n\n\nThe explosion that occurs mid way along the building is certainly not an\nexplosive though. The cloud itself is on fire. This would seem to\nbe most likely to be some sort of fuel oil store exploding rather than\nthe explosion of a magazine.\n\n\n\nDepends entirely on how they were distributed. You would not be able\nto identify ammunition rounds going off from video camera coverage\nfrom a mile away. If and when the FBI release pictures from cmeras\non the armoured vehicles (which presumably exist) it might be possible to \nget a clearer picture. \n\nIf anyone expects to see explosions hollywood style aka Rambo movies then\nremember that in real life cars do not burst into flames when going over cliffs.\n\nJust about the most you could expect would be to see the grenades\ngoing off. Since the building was designed to be blast proof to some\nextent it would be difficult to distinguish the grenades going off from\nthe collapse of the building due to the fire.\n\n\n\nParanoia.\n\n\nYou wouldn't beleive the FBI if they showed you a picture of Koresh himself\nsetting light to the place. Your mindset is such that you are simply\nunable to accept as true anything that might suggest that a group of\nheavily armed weapons fanatics might indeed be in the wrong.\n\nThe gun lobby can't accept that the B-D set light to the place because\nthat would mean that Koreh had murdered 17 children, that would mean that\ntheir taking his account of the murder of 4 BATF agents would be even\nless credible than it was to start with.\n\nKoresh had 51 days to come out with his hands up and face a fair trial. \nInstead he ordered the murder of everyone in the place.\n", "As quoted from <1993Apr5.172734.8744@icd.ab.com> by kdw@icd.ab.com (Kenneth D. Whitehead):\n\n\nThere were some significant differences. Whereas the Branch Davidians are\nreported to have gotten along rather well with their neighbors, the MOVE\npeople are generally conceded to have gone far out of the way to antagonize\ntheir BLACK neighbors, using loudspeakers to all hours of the night, keeping\nlarge piles of garbage, promoting rat and insect infestation, and allegedly\nthreatening to kidnap their neighbors' children.\n\nStill the same sort of questions regarding use of force remain in that case.\n", "\nWhy thanks for your reply to my post. By the way, I never, never ever said \nthat it was right to shoot \"THOSE kind\" of babies. However it was the Branch\nDavidian people in there that insisted on staying there with their \"savior\" \n(yeah right budy boy) because he had brain-washed them into believing that \nwhat ever he says is the truth, even if means that they are to give up their\nlives for <<<>>> cause. Therefore it is Davids fault and not the ATF's\nwho gave them 50 to 51 days to get out, this was 50 days to many for me and\nfor many of the rest of the U.S. I am however sad to hear of the death of any \nchild unlike the sick bastard I supposedly am.", "\n\tIf there was a large propane tank, and it was breached, don't \n\tyou think that there would be an identifiable explosion?\n\tFurther, the BD members have as much reason to lie as the \n\tGov't.\n\n\n\n\tThey'd only autopsied one body when this information was released.\n\tI wouldn't doubt though\n\n\n\n\tThe only evidence that exists right now (at least what we know\n\tabout) is various claims and counter claims. I'm waiting until\n\tthe hard evidence is released. What about you?\n\n _____ _____\n \\\\\\\\\\\\/ ___/___________________\n Mitchell S Todd \\\\\\\\/ / _____/__________________________\n________________ \\\\/ / mst4298@zeus._____/.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'_'_'_/\n\\_____ \\__ / / tamu.edu _____/.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'_'_/\n \\__________\\__ / / _____/_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_/\n \\_ / /__________/\n \\/____/\\\\\\\\\\\\\n \t\t\t \\\\\\\\\\\\", "The explanations of Federal law enforcement officials about what\nhappened in Waco is just another example of the survivors writing the\nhistory books to put themselves in the best of a bad light.\n-- \nDave Feustel N9MYI ", "hello,\n\nI just want to make 2 points:\n\n1) The FBI is not stupid. These people are chosen for their intelligence,\neducation, loyalty to the government, etc. They are given much intensive\ntraining. So, to all of you who refuse to believe there could be any\nconspiracy here, and say that the FBI was just stupid, I say I don't\nbelieve it.\n\n2) The FBI has acces to the latest in audio and video technology -- the\nlatest digital systems. The FBI can manufacture evidence. Need a tape of\nKoresh saying, \"light the fire\", and you can have one. Need a thermal\nimaging video of three people lighting fires, and through the magic of\ncomputer graphics, you can have one. The thing is, manufacturing these\npieces of evidence takes time. So it may be a few more days before we\nget to see them. Or maybe we just haven't heard any tapes or seen any\nFBI video is because it is:\n\t1) classified\n\t2) too gruesome for our eyes\n\t3) lost/got coffee spilled on it\n\nDwayne Jacques Fontenot", "\nSince neither side would be particularly interested in telling the truth,\nyou have to weigh the 'facts' given by each yourself, and weigh it with\nthe newsreporting if you care.\n\nMany cult members will probably side with the attorney, and if he\nis lying, change their stories to match his. And if the Feds also\nlie, the cult members who become disillusioned will change their\nstories to match the Feds. \n\nNeither sides are interested in the truth. The Media is more interested,\nbut usually either don't have the time to get it straight or tie themselves\nto the ratings and deliberately distort. \n\nFor me, though, the black soot billowing outside the compound added with\nhow fast the fire spread ponted to *someone* dousing large parts of the\ncompound with some sort of gasoline or fire-starter. I doubt the Feds\ndid that as they were more interested in arresting Vernon. The real\nunbalanced one (at least the one that lost his cool) was Vernon, so\nI figured that he was more likely to do it (after all he was Jesus \nbeing persecuted by the authorities, and had followers to hold onto,\nso made the decision. He and his followers also probably felt that they\nwere rocketing to heaven by doing this stuff). Thsi conclusion, I came\nto after umpteen million hours of listening to NPR and other radio\nshows (I always have the radio going when I am in my office on some\ninnocuous talk-show or news program as background noise).\n\n", "In the wake of the Waco denouement, I had email discussions with\npeople from this group. In particular, we discussed how cults\noperate, why the FBI might be motivated to black out news or behave\nthe way it did, and what kinds of problems are involved in dealing\nwith cults and similar organizations.\n\nI include an edited account of what I wrote. The identity of my\ncorrespondents have (I hope) been erased. The editing process makes\nthe text choppy - sorry about that. I've tried to retain the\ninformation content.\n\nEllipses (...) indicate where text was removed. A few of the comments\nin parentheses are new, intended to make it easier for outsiders to\nunderstand.\n\nThese notes are preliminary - feel free to criticize.\n\nCheers(?),\nOded\n\n------------------------ (begin included text) -----------------------\n\nI took a course called the MADNESS OF CROWDS, ... The course included\ncults and briefly mentioned/analyzed Jonestown. (Did some external\nreading too).\n\nWilliam Adorno ... edited a series of books on the psychology of\n\"evil\" mass movements... starting with THE AUTHORITARIAN PERSONALITY,\nUniversity of Chicago Press, 1948 ... an attempt to figure out what\nwould motivate people to support fascism or be the bad guys in WWII,\nand by extension in other wars, in racial lynchings ... I don't think\nthe books are perfect, and the study of psychopathology has advanced\n..., but you can elicit Koresh types from even the first volume. So I\nthink they're onto something.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\t\tHow cult psychology works...\n\t[I'm an amateur. Hope I'm not hopelessly naive.]\n\nSo long as Koresh could \"own\" his people, he made sure they didn't\nbelieve there was any life out there for them, away from him.\nOtherwise, he'd (Koresh) be nothing. During the siege, ex-Davidians\nrecounted how he convinced the people in the compound they survived\nonly through his intercession with God to spare their worthless souls.\nAbsolutely classic brainwashing technique. ... As long as they\nbelieved him, they'd ignore BATF/FBI/Child Protective Services or even\nthe Red Cross asking them to come out. After all, if they ever left\nhim, God would catapult them straight to Hell, and the combined forces\nof the US gummint, with all the goodwill in the world (doubtful)\ncouldn't save them for a second. If I believed it, I'd stay and die\ntoo, like the folks in Jonestown.\n\nFor a prosaic analogy, replace a cult leader with an estranged wife\n(or husband), and notice how many folks show up, kill the ex and then\nthemselves. That's the consequence of shattered \"cultism.\" It really\ndoes happen all the time. [By the way, the treasured ideal in such\ncases, without which life is meaningless, is the relationship, no\nmatter how abusive, rather than the individual's partner.]\n\n...\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n [Why No News, Don't The Feds Owe The World An Explanation?]\n\nI agree that official explanations are in order. I can also see good\n(?) reasons for news blackouts.\n\n\n ... that no matter what, those people would have died, because Koresh\nmade sure they believed they had no lives outside his influence.\nHence it would make little difference when or how the FBI acted. He\nheld them hostage, as his trump against going to jail, but nothing\nwould really stop him from offing them. Even if the FBI went away!\n\nLook at history. Rep Leo Ryan (and some staffers) visited Jonestown,\nat the request of constituents who had relatives there. Once\nJonestown was discovered, and even though they killed Ryan and his\nentourage ... they all killed themselves, because Jim Jones knew he'd\nbe busted. Internal arguments asking to spare the children, brought\nup by some of the women in the cult, were shouted down. There are\ntapes... The \"logic\" of saying that no matter how bad the gummint is, it\nwouldn't kill the kids, was shouted down as blasphemy, and the people\nwho brought it up were threatened with ostracism by people who by\nTHEIR OWN AVOWAL would be dead within the hour. I suspect it's the\nsame with the Branch Davidians.\n(There's a book on Jonestown by James Reston Jr., titled OUR FATHER\nWHO ART IN HELL. I don't know whether it's good - never read it.)\n\n...\nThe only way to prevent such a problem would be never to investigate\nreports of child abuse or sexual mistreatment, or organizations buying\nfull-auto conversion kits or shipping hand grenades via UPS, on the\noff chance of stumbling across cults that would kill themselves. ...\n\nSo, the only way the BATF/FBI could \"save\" those people, and future\ncults, is by ignoring such signs.\n\nI suppose there's another way - outsmarting Koresh and tricking him\ninto letting them go, or somehow influencing \"his\" people to abandon\nhim while he owns most of their means of communication with the world.\n... a mighty tough row to hoe. ... I suspect the FBI tried to do that\nwith blackouts, noise and other sensory insults. However, maybe\nthey're not very sophisticated, or maybe the job is impossible. It's\ncertainly possible the guy running the show was a jerk.\n\n...\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\t[Why the FBI might want to blackout during and coverup after]\n\n ... - if they were doing a poor job of weaning the BD's from\nKoresh, they'd want to keep it quiet so they wouldn't be embarrassed.\n\n ... - if they were trying to wean the BD's from Koresh, they'd\nwant to keep it quiet so he couldn't outflank them, or well-meaning\nboneheads from ANY point of view wouldn't screw it up. ... I _hate_\nplaying chess when the world screams in my face, especially if at\ncheckmate time people really die, and I could be blamed.\n\n...\n\nI don't think ignoring such incidents is a workable policy, unless you\ndeny the FBI, BATF, Child Protective Services (of whatever stripe) and\nthe rest of the gummint should exist at all. \n\n\t\t(the end)\n----------------------------------------------------------------------", "\nWell they could unseal the original warrent (Why was i sealed in the\nfirst place?), release their video & tapes (from their listening devices\ninside the compound) and quit makeing contradictory statements.\n\nDo you believe their statement that the children were killed by\nlethal injection? They later stated that the childrens bodies\nwere burned to the point the would be hard to identify. So\nhow did they come up with the lethal injection theory?\n\n\nUnless the evidence was destroyed or other evidence planted.\n\n\nYou mean \"Magic bullet\" Spector?\n\nI know, a lone gunman killed all the Branch Davidians. :-) || :-(\n", ":\n:According to an Australian documentary made in the year before the stand off \n:began, Koresh and his followers all believed he was Christ. Koresh \n:had sex with children and women married to other men in the compound. \n:These were the \"perfect children\" resulting from the \"great seed\" of \n:his \"magnified horn\". Ex-members describe him in ways not dissimilar \n:to the way Jim Jones has been described.\n\nI don't know how accurate the documentary was; however, Koresh was never\nconvicted of any crimes against children, nor was the BATF after him for\nchild abuse. Their purview (in this case) is strictly in firearms violations,\nso this information is irrelevant to the discussion.\n\n:FBI agents have to pass rigorous psychological examinations and background \n:checks. Plus, those in charge will undoubtedly have to explain their \n:decisions in great detail to congress. Why would the FBI want to fulfill \n:Koresh's own prophecy?\n\nThose in charge will undoubtedly have to explain *something*, but whether\ntheir answers even remotely resembles the truth we may never know. And who\nis left alive to care whether the prophecy is fulfilled? It only holds\nmeaning for the nine who survived.\n\n:>Correction: The *FBI* said that two of the cult members said this; so far,\n:>no one else has been able to talk to them.\n:\n:So, when they talk to the news reporters directly, and relate the same \n:details, will you believe them?\n\n*IF* they confirm the story, I probably will. Definitely not until then, \nhowever.\n\n\nMike Ruff", "\nNot to mention that the G-men believed the children didn't have gas masks.\n\nBut that was not, with respect to the children, the point of the gassing.\nThe feds *knew* that the children's health would be in danger and proceeded\nunder the assumption that the \"motherly instinct\" of the Davidian women\nwould remove them from harm's way. I busted a gut on that one.\n\nSomeone else on the net observed that the administration's appeal to a\nwoman's \"motherly instinct\" would never wash with feminists and liberals\nif a republican were in the White House. I say that such an justification\ncould *only* come from a feminist mindset. \n\nBTW - I'd read in the paper yesterday that the type of gas used was CS2.\nThe paper didn't provide any specifics about it.", " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nI know that this isn't the group for it, but since you brought it up,\ndoes anyone have any idea why they haven't \"bombed\" the Waco cult? \n\nJust curious.\n\n\n\n . \n / \nLarry __/ _______/_ \nkeys@csmes.ncsl.nist.gov / \\ \n _____ __ _____ \\------- ===\n ----------- / ____/ / / /__ __/ \\\n / ___ / / ___ / / / / ____ |\n | / \\/ /__ / | / /__ __/ /__ / \\ / \n /___ \\_______/ /_____/ /______/ ====OO\n \\ / \\ / \n - 1990 2.0 16v -\n\n\n ---------------- FAHRVERGNUGEN FOREVER! -------------------- \n The fact that I need to explain it to you indicates\n that you probably wouldn't understand anyway!", "rja@mahogany126.cray.com (Russ Anderson) writes...\n\n\n\n\n\tThe fact is that Koresh and his followers involved themselves\n\tin a gun battle to control the Mt Carmel complex. That is not\n\tin dispute. From what I remember of the trial, the authories\n\tcouldn't reasonably establish who fired first, the big reason\n\tbehind the aquittal.\n\n _____ _____\n \\\\\\\\\\\\/ ___/___________________\n Mitchell S Todd \\\\\\\\/ / _____/__________________________\n________________ \\\\/ / mst4298@zeus._____/.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'_'_'_/\n\\_____ \\__ / / tamu.edu _____/.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'_'_/\n \\__________\\__ / / _____/_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_/\n \\_ / /__________/\n \\/____/\\\\\\\\\\\\\n \t\t\t \\\\\\\\\\\\", "\n\n The Associated Press had an article on Monday March 1, I believe,\nwhich quoted witnesses as describing BATF agents throwing grenades prior\nto any gunfire on the part of the Davidians.\n\n It was among the first of a crop of different, mutually exclusive\ndescriptions.", "\nKoresh & some of his followers were tried and found *innocent* of\nall charges following that shootout. Were you unaware of this or\ndid you purposly leave out this fact?\n\n", "I told some friends of mine two weeks ago that Koresh was dead. The FBI and\nthe BATF could not let a man like that live. He was a testimonial to their\nstupidity and lies. \n\nNow before everyone gets crazy with me, let me say that Koresh was crazy as \na bed bug, but out government was crazier...and they lied to us.\n\nThey told us compound had been under survaillance for quite some time. Yet, \nwhoever was watching the place failed to see that Koresh went jogging and into\ntown on a regular basis. Everyone in the area claimed to have seen him and \nwondered why they didn't pick him up then. There are two possible answers.\nFirst, they didn't see him. What kind of survaillance is that? Second, they\ndidn't care. They wanted a confrontation. They wanted publicity and they got\nit.\n\nAfter the first battle, they told us that they did not know he knew they were\ncoming. They also said it would have been foolish to go in knowing that.\nWell, we know now that they intercepted the informants call and went in anyway.\n\nDid they explore all of the possibilities for ending the seige? According to\nthem they did, but according to the Hartford Courant, the woman that raised\nKoresh (His Grandmother) was not allowed to go in and see him. \n The FBI agent who she spoke with was Bob Ricks and according to the paper he\n\n\"A lot of people think if you just talk to them logically they will come out.\nHis grandmother raised Vernon Howell; (Koresh's Real name) she didn't raise\nDavid Koresh.\"\n\nSomeone who raises you and loves you does not speak to you strickly on a\nlogical level. There is also an emotional level on which they can reach you.\n\nHere's another one. All during this operation the FBI has been claiming that\nthey feared a mass suicide and that is one of the reasons that something must\nbe done. Now they claim they never thought he would do it?\n\nI knew they were going to do something when they started talking about how\nmuch money this was costing. That was the start of the \"Justification\" part\npart of the plan. That's when I knew it would come soon.\n\nBut, back to the plan. It is considered \"Cruel and Unusal Punishment\" to\nexecute criminals in the minds of many people, but look at what's acceptable.\n\nThey knew the parents (adults) had gas masks. They did not know, or were not\nsure, if the children had them. So the plan was to pour the gas into the \ncompound. The mothers, seeing what the gas was doing to their children were\nsupposed to run out and that would only leave the men to deal with.\n\nI spent two years in the army and like everyother veteran I went through CBR\n(Chemical, Biological Radiological) warfare training. Part of that training\nis going into a room filled with the same stuff that the children were\nsubjected to. To make the stuff really interesting the gas also has a chemical \nagent that irritates the skin. You think its on fire.\n\nI have no doubts the children would become hysterical. Its not the kind of\nthing you never want to do again. This was the plan, the final solution.\n\nWe waited 444 days for our hostages to come home from Iran. We gave these\npeople 51 days. \n\nI stated on several occasions that there was absolutely nothing in this whole\nthing that the government could point to as a success. Well, FBI agent Ricks\nchanged my mind. Again a newclip from the Hartford Courant:\n\n\"And while expressing regret at the loss of life, he suggested that the\noperation had been at least a modified success because not a single federal\nshot had been fired and not a single federal agent had been hurt.\"\n\nIt took 17 dead children to get us that new definition of success.\n\nOne more thought. The government claimed that they believed he had automatic\nweapons on the premises. \n \n HE HAD A LICENSE FOR THE 50 CALIBER MACHINE GUN!\n\nTHEY KNEW DAMN WELL HE HAD ONE. THEY ALSO KNEW HE HAD IT LEGALLY!\n\nStill, without the element of surprise they sent in agents to get him.\nFor all of this my President takes full responsibility. What a guy!\nI hope he gets it.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n", "It didn't happen.\n\nObviously. You are an authority worshiper.\n\n\nGive me a camera, and time with you, and I can present excerpts that show you \nto be a cult leader. Guarenteed. You should at least view the whole \ndocumentary before you claim it as a source.\n\n\n\nTwo places, eh? You saw this? Or did the wonderful FBI tell you this? \nI saw one place.\n\n\nCouldn't answer this one, eh? This is the most important question of all, it \nis the root cause of all the other suspicion.\n\n\nJim\n\n--\njmd@handheld.com", "\nWow, the scope of the mission of the ATF continues to expand. Besides\nAlcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, they now seem to be involded in Child\nProtective Services, Drug Enforcement and Tax Evasion.\n\nThey look to be on the road to being the nations *boys in blue*!\nNo Knock in one hand, M-16 in the other. Zeik-Heil!!!\n\nLance\n\n\n", null ], "marker": { "opacity": 0.5, "size": 5 }, "mode": "markers+text", "name": "9_the_to_they", "text": [ "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "9_the_to_they" ], "textfont": { "size": 12 }, "type": "scattergl", "x": { "bdata": 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"dtype": "f4" } }, { "hoverinfo": "text", "hovertext": [ "\nAnd Noemi makes me think of \"cuddle\", not \"KotL\".", "Can someone please remind me who said a well known quotation? \n\nHe was sitting atop a rocket awaiting liftoff and afterwards, in answer to\nthe question what he had been thinking about, said (approximately) \"half a\nmillion components, each has to work perfectly, each supplied by the lowest\nbidder.....\" \n\nAttribution and correction of the quote would be much appreciated. ", " >but whether I would.", "\n\nNope, I've answered each question posed, and most were answered multiple\ntimes.", "\nArcher> How about \"Interactive Sex with Madonna\"?\n\nor \"Sexium\" for short.\n\n/Lars", "/ iftccu:talk.politics.guns / Jason Kratz / 3:34 pm Apr 18, 1993 /\n\n\nSounds like a VOGON quote to me..... Perhaps YOU should READ more widely \ninstead of watching that idiot box....", "Can you aswer me one question? How did you get to be so retarded?", "\n [flame-bait, pure and simple]\n\n\n", "_TOO_ many.", "\n\nHey Pal! Who're you calling litte?\n\n\nTony", "\n\nPeter,\n\nI believe this is your most succinct post to date. Since you have nothing\nto say, you say nothing! It's brilliant. Did you think of this all by\nyourself?\n\n-marc ", "\nWas that post for real? I thought it was a late April Fool joke. Some of it\nseemed a bit over the top even by McElwaine/Abian/etc standards :-)\n", " \n\nOh boy, get a small baby and figure out how much brain power they\nhave the first 6 months....\n\nCheers,\nKent", "\nAn open letter to Marc Afifi\n\n\nDear Marc,\n\tI believe that you are wrong about Mr. Freeman. He has written in\na style that raises the level of posts on this board. If you just don't seem\nto get it, I believe that it is more of a reflection of you and your abilities\nthan of him. His posts contain substance and and he defends his positions \nwell.\n\tHaving said this, I would like to ask in general for people on this \nboard to realize that if they don't agree with the substance of posts, then they should respond to the substance (or lack of) of the posts rather than attack\nthe author of the posts. When one has to resort to attacking a poster rather than what he/she has written, one can see that that person does not have the\nability to make a coherent argument concerning the post.\n\nPeace,\n", "that's okay, he's perfectly welcome to come to Scotland you know ;-)\n\n", "\n\n[ edited ]\n\nNow that's funny! (remembering that good humor always dances\nuncomfortably close to the truth) \n\nI can't wait to see the inevitable flames. :-)\n", "\n\nIf anybody is having problems following the thread be sure to ask the\norigonal poster to rectify your misunderstanding.", "It's me again!", "\n\nThis is probably the best part of your post. Everything else is\nshrill speculation.", "\n\nShouldn't have. But he may need to see the shrink about why he\nwanted to kill himself. Depressed people can be succesfully treated\nusually.\n\n\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "\n\nThis newsgroup is for intelligent discussion. I want you to either smarten\nup and stop this bullshit posting or get the fuck out of my face and this\nnet.\n\n Steve\n\n-- ", "The Sophomore\n (Romans 1:22)\n\nThe sophomore says, ``What is truth?''\nand turns to bask in the admiration of his peers.\n\nHow modern how daring how liberating\nHow modern how daring how liberating\nthey chant\n\nThe sophomore, being American\nDoesn't know\nThat his ``question''\n\n modern\n skeptical\n cynical\n\nWas asked before, by a\n\n modern\n skeptical\n cynical\n urbane cosmopolitan\n\nPolitician (appointed not elected)\nWho happened to live two thousand years ago.\n\nLike many politicians he cared\n\n Less about ideals\n than results\n\n Less about ends\n than means\n\n Less about anything\n than keeping his job\n (and his head).\n\nWe might call him\nA bit brutal\nThough `firm' would be kinder\n(And no doubt Stalin, who let nobody go, laughed at his laxness)\nHe didn't like his job; perhaps he no longer hoped for better\n(Nor feared worse, except regarding his head).\n\nAnd when these wily Jews\nWith their heads-I-win, tails-you-lose\n conundrums\nBrought forth their madman,\nHis first impulse was to play the Roman:\n``I find nothing wrong with him,\n See to it yourselves.''\n\nBut when they mentioned `King' and `Caesar'\nHis heart froze.\n\nIf he killed their madman\n He'd start a riot\n and lose his job\n (and his head)\n\nIf he saved the King of the Jews\n He'd piss off Caesar\n and lose his job\n (and his head)\n\nAnd when his wife told him to have\n Nothing to do with the righteous lout\nShe didn't tell him anything\n He hadn't already figured out.\n\nSo he punted.\n\n``Not my jurisdiction! Take him to see Herod!''\n(who just happened to be in town....)\n\nHerod appreciated the courtesy\nBut wasn't worried\n And sent the sharp-tongued fool\n (Who suddenly didn't have much to say,\n funny how people lose it under pressure....)\n back\nIn the attire proper\n to his Royal State.\n\nHis ass is covered---if Herod has no problem,\nCaesar certainly won't. The fool can be king\nof whatever world he wants\nas long as it's not Caesar's.\n\n``I'm letting him go,'' he said with a shout.\n(Looks like he'll last this one out....)\n\nThe crowd's reaction puzzled him.\n They really wanted him dead.\nThey didn't want the King of the Jews,\n They wanted Barabbas instead\n(And, as Josephus records, they got him)\n\nOh well, he thought,\nThey all look the same to me.\nAnd we'll get Barabbas next time.\n\nAnd if I can get them to say\n ``We have no king but Caesar!''\n By killing a madman,\nHell, I'll kill ten a day.\n\nAnd then Pilate had his fun\n A little joke\n Short\n To the point\n Trilingual\n\nAnd all this\nWent as it always does\nWhen someone gets caught\nIn the gears of government\n\nAnd there's a scientific explanation\n (no doubt)\nFor the superstitious rumors\n (persisting to this day)\nThat it didn't all end\nWith a tomb\nand a Roman squadron on guard.\n\nOur sophomore doesn't know about this\nHe doesn't recognize his kindred spirit\n(Or truth either, as he admits).\n\nI guess we haven't learned much\nin two thousand years.\n\n\n\n", "Lets not forget ", "I was shocked to see that the subject of my last rely to awesley was\n\"Luser!\" That was certainly not my intention. I meant to leave the\nsubject line unchanged. I believe that the NNTP server I use at columbia\nmust have put in that subject line in protest over problems with my header.\n That was rather rude of them, but beggars can't be choosers, I suppose.\n\nIn any case, I didn't do it and I apologize to awesley for the apparent\ninsult.", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nWell, again, I am doing as much as the poster I was replying too. I am\nquite busy and really don't have the time to respond in full scholarly\nform to every accusation that is flippantly made by someone who's \nbeing clearly antagonistic.\n\n\n\n\nI have considered it. But if someone spreads falsehoods out of\nignorance then they are still spreading falsehoods. Those falsehoods\ngenerally do not come out of nowhere but are produced by people\nwho know that what they are saying is (at _least_) not the whole\ntruth. I still consider such spreading of falsehoods propaganda\non some level.\n\n\n\n\nBob, I never accused you of having your head up your ass! It takes\nme quite some time in dealing with someone before accusing them of\nhaving their head up their ass. I was accusing the original poster\n(Benedikt, I believe) of being so impaired.\n\n\nCheers,", "\nI happen to take the violation of a person much more seriously than the\n\"violation\" of a mindless clump of cells smaller than my thumb.\n\nYour mileage may vary.", "\n\nNow, I had put a Wink at the end of my suggestion indicating it was\nintensely sarcastic. I can't help it if everyone got all serious.\n\nRoss.\n\n\tI never saw your original posting. it dropped on the floor\nsomewhere. I just saw the trickle down, thought it was intensely\nstupid, not knowing anything about the joke, mentioned arbitron\nand left it with an equally stupid joke. Bill in his ever increasing\ndevotion to thoroughness dug up several arbitron stats.\n\nI myself think the arbitron stats are severely methodologically impaired,\nbut are a good measure of proportion. I don't think anyone\nknows how many people read news anymore.", "\nYou can tell your friend from me that I was in a publisher's\nwarehouse one time and saw thousands of copies of The Joy of\nCooking and every one of them was syllable-perfect.\n\nI have since sold all I own and become a follower of The Joy\nof Cooking. The incident I mentioned convinced me, once and\nfor all, that The Joy of Cooking is inspired by god and the\none true path to his glory.", "\n\n[stuff deleted]\n\nThen why not simply stop reading them. This isn't intended as a flame,\nbut your post reminds me of the old joke: \n Patient: \"Doctor it hurts when I do this.\"\n Doctor: \"Then stop doing that.\"", "To all the readers of talk.politics.mideast,alt.flame,alt.stupidity\n\nI am posting this message on behalf of a staff member at UCDavis whose \naccount had been broken into and used to post offensive messages to\nall these groups.\n\n\t--Dave\n\n----begin included message from szljubi@othello.ucdavis.edu\n\n\nPlease be advised that the person(s) sending to you the inflammatory\nremarks you have been receiving have been doing so by ILLEGALLY accessing\nmy account.\n\nOur campus Information Technology security group has cut off my account's\naccess to this hacker, and every effort is being made to track down this\nperson.\n\nI apologize profusely that you have been subjected to the derogatory\ncomments made by this person and I detest that my name was attached to\nthem.\n\nThank you to those of you who alerted our campus security about the nature\nof this problem.\n\nSincerely,\nP. Ljubi\n", "\n\tYou know what my answer will be: Hrivnak! The choice is obvious.\n\n\n", "\n I agree with you.\n", "I have one word for you LOSER!!!!", "\n\nHopefully, he doesnt take it personal...", "]joe, i'm sorry you felt i was pissing on your list. no disparagement\n]was intended and i would be most interested to know what i said that\n]made you feel that way. \n\nyou didn't, I meant 'pissing' like boxer owners 'piss' on K bike owners\nand K bike owners 'piss' on boxer owners and so forth. in the end it's\nnothing more than co-owner ribbing. no disparagement was received or \nreturned intentionally, sorry 'bout the lack of :-)'s.\n", "\nHave you informed your wife of this prioritization?\n\nThis board will have\n\nThou hast used my name in vain! I never coerce. Ridicule, maybe, but\nnever coerce. Please take responsibility for your actions.\n\n(deletia)\n", "\n\n\n\nMr. Sternlight, your naivete and historical ignorance is appalling.\n\n[ History lesson detailing 1968-74 deleted. ]", "\n->I addressed most of the key issues in this very long (284 lines) post\n->by Dean Kaflowitz in two posts yesterday. The first was made into the\n->title post of a new thread, \"Is Dean Kaflowitz terminally irony-impaired?\"\n->and the second, more serious one appeared along the thread\n->\"A Chaney Post, and a Challenge, reissued and revised\"", "...His account that is.\n\nMany important issues, and some not-so important ones, are discussed here\non the net on a daily basis. I have just been informed of what I feel is\none of the most important things that we could ever discuss -- The \nout-and-out censorship of one of our fellow posters because some people\ndon't like what he says or thinks.\n\nWe have all seen the postings here by AJ Teel. Although many of us have\nnot agreed with their content, I'm sure most of us have been at least\nsomewhat interested in them. I, for one, am greatful to live (I thought)\nin a country where people like Mr. Teel are allowed to say what they please.\nIf I don't wan't to read it, I can just skip on by, or unsuscribe. But,\nunfortunately, some people cannot let others live and let live. They feel\nan overwhelming need to snuff out the little bastards. Now it seems that\nMr. Teel will be with us no more, due mainly to our brother, and cheif\nnet police, Ted Frank.\n\n\nPLEASE HELP AJ TEEL REGAIN NET (POST) ACCESS AND CORRECT THIS INJUSTICE. \n\n ARE YOU ON TED'S HIT LIST? \n ARE YOUR THOUGHTS CORRECT? \n IS YOUR ACCOUNT SAFE?\n HAS YOUR SYSADMIN BEEN CONTACTED BY THE THOUGHT POLICE?\n\nI thought the NLG and the ACLU supported people with diverse opinions. NOT!\n\n \nPlease read the following forwarded messages from AJ Teel so that \nyou may understand this vial act for what it is...\n\n------------------------------ forwarded ---------------------------------\n\nNewsgroups: alt.activism,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,misc.legal\nSubject: Officer Ted Frank, Thought Police Badge Number NWO-666\nSummary: Ted wins the argument by killing his opponent!\nExpires: \nDistribution: \nOrganization: University of Colorado, Boulder\nKeywords: NWO Ted Frank\n\nWell, well, well... Thanks to eck@panix.com (Mark Eckenwiler) and\nthf2@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank), my account is to be axed.\nI guess that the information I am presenting is just toooo difficult\nfor them to deal with. They (ONLY Ted and Mark) have complained to my\nsysadmin some unknown number of times to get me off the net. (In his\ndefense, Mark sent only one message and it was not THAT bad; it has\nbeen posted in one of the newsgroups; However, it *was* not directed\nat me as would be common practice and I am VERY good at responding\nvia netmail...)\n\nWhile I disagree with Ted, I would not send mail to his sysadmin\nto get him axed. Name-calling was not enough; jumping on every post\nI made was not enough; ignoring specific points when they were not\nwhat the desired picture was not enough; SIMPLY IGNORING ME IF I\nAM SUCH A KOOK WAS NOT ENOUGH. Even now I do not wish to have him\naxed, but I do wish to express my disgust about this. \"Argumentum\nad silence-your-opponent-um\"?! I would have thought he would have\nwanted me to stay around just to have someone to yell about and\nseem sooo wise... (to himself, I think).\n\nThe issue that seems to be: \"Is the following an advertisement?\"\nApparently, Ted and Mark think so...\n\n1) I Posted an article from around one year ago as it was taken \n\t*off the net* from last year. If reposting an article\n\tconstitutes posting an ad, then I am guilty. This post\n\tdid have a name and address and, yes, a price. If one\n\thad posted the address and subscription price of \"Newsweek\",\n\twould that be an ad? I get nothing from showing this stuff.\n2) I Posted a list of documents showing examples of the kind of\n\t\"proof\" that was REQUESTED BY TED FRANK. He then complains\n\tto my sysadmin saying that I am advertising and, lo and\n\tbehold, \"poof\", there goes my account. This one had an\n\taddress in it! Oh, no! I Guess that means it is an ad!\n\nIf you value the alternative view I have been discussing, or VALUE\nITS DISCUSSION even if you do not agree with it, I ask that you send\na note saying as much to me to show to the sysadmin. They rarely get\n\"Ya know, that user on your net was real helpful...\" or whatever; they\nonly get \"I don't like what that user is doing because...\".\nPlease do not send the note to the sysadmin. I need to take it to them\nin a manner that has at least a chance of getting through.\n\nIn my files here are hundreds of responses from people saying \"Thanks for\nthe info\" or \"Could you send me such and such?\" or \"Your posts are\nvery interesting... keep it up.\" and only a handfull of \"Go aways\". But,\nI guess the fact that I have decided not to waste my time trying to\nconvince Ted is a Net Offense[TM] of such magnitude as to warrant\na message complaining about me. (Knock, knock...\"My name is Ted and\nand this is Mark... We're from the thought police. Seems you have\nsome pretty dangerous ideas here, and we're here to confiscate them...\")\nNWO Indeed!\n\nGuess I will have to go back to the drawing board and come up with\na new plan... Thanks Ted and Mike. Hope you are happy.\nI will be on for a few more days and then... that's all folks!\nYour comments and support are requested. I can no longer post\nto news. I ask what this has accomplished... Is there some benefit\nfrom making alternative views simply vanish? Not in my book. \nSeems the easiest way to win an argument is to make the opposing side\nshut up. Images of Waco.... ah, but alas... And all this when I am in the\nprocess of typing in a letter to me from the Tax Collector saying that\na lien was removed due to a letter that I wrote challenging jurisdiction.\nOh, well... It takes time to come up with the info requested, and I\nwas just getting started.\n\nIt should be noted that Ted Frank has been accused publicly over 40\ntimes of being an NWO supporter and has never made an statements to the\ncontrary. Further, what ARE Ted Frank's motivations for getting me axed?\nWe all know that SOME PEOPLE are getting paid to collect info on people\non the net that are of \"interest\" to the government, and Ted sure seems\nto have a *personal* interest in debunking me. Hmmm... just who does\nhe work for? The University of Chicago which he \"attends\"(?) is well\nknown as one of the biggest NWO supporters...\n\nAnd finally, if anyone would be able to help me find a new account here\nin the Boulder/Denver area, I would greatly appreciate it. I am in the\nprocess of installing Linux and so will be able to do UUCP or maybe\na TC/IP connection. Any help here would be greatly appreciated. Since I\nam longer be able to post news and will no longer have email VERY\nsoon, I hope that anyone who wishes to contact me will do so via:\n\n\tA. J. Teel, Sui Juris\n\tc/o USPS Box 19043\n\tBoulder, Colorado, U.S.A.\n\tPostal Zone: 80308-9043\n\t\n\tor leave me voice mail at: c/o (408) 281-0434\n\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nSelected messages from Ted Frank via sysadmin follows:\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nWith Explicit Reservation Of All Rights (U.C.C. 1-207)\nRegards, -A. J. Teel-, Sui Juris (ajteel@dendrite.cs.Colorado.EDU)\n\n\n---------------------------\n\nReceived: from locutus.cs.colorado.edu by dendrite.cs.Colorado.EDU with SMTP id AA14777\n (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Mon, 5 Apr 1993 14:39:19 -0600\nReceived: by locutus.cs.colorado.edu with SMTP id AA15908\n (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Mon, 5 Apr 1993 14:36:54 -0600\nMessage-Id: <199304052036.AA15908@locutus.cs.colorado.edu>\nTo: \"Ted Frank\" \nSubject: Re: List of documents \nCc: cstmr@locutus.cs.colorado.edu, csops@locutus.cs.colorado.edu,\n ajteel@locutus.cs.colorado.edu, vaxops@locutus.cs.colorado.edu\nReply-To: trouble@cs.colorado.edu\nIn-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 05 Apr 93 13:29:06 CDT\nDate: Mon, 05 Apr 93 14:36:51 -0600\nFrom: barb@locutus.cs.colorado.edu\nStatus: OR\n\n--------\n\n Please ask ******* to stop advertising his wares on the network. Thank you.\n\t\t\t[Editor's Note: ^^^???]\n \n >[START OF DOCUMENT: doclist.txt.lis ]\n >DOCUMENTS NOW AVAILABLE\n >\n >BILL MEDINA, Sui Juris\n >Post Office Box 70400\n >Sunnyvale, California, U.S.A.\n >Postal Zone: 94086-0400\n \n (79 lines deleted).\n\n---------------\n Resolution:\n---------------\n\nThank you. He has been warned before. We are taking action.\n\n\nBarbara J. Dyker Department of Computer Science\nManager, Computer Operations Campus Box 430B, ECEE00-69\nbarb@cs.colorado.edu University of Colorado\n(303) 492-2545 Boulder, CO 80309-0430\n\n--------------------\n.cs.colorado.edu Mon Apr 5 15:50:36 1993\nReceived: from locutus.cs.colorado.edu by dendrite.cs.Colorado.EDU with SMTP id AA15809\n (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Mon, 5 Apr 1993 15:50:34 -0600\nReceived: by locutus.cs.colorado.edu id AA16069\n (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ajteel); Mon, 5 Apr 1993 15:50:27 -0600\nDate: Mon, 5 Apr 1993 15:50:27 -0600\nFrom: Barbara Dyker \nMessage-Id: <199304052150.AA16069@locutus.cs.colorado.edu>\nReceived: by NeXT.Mailer (1.87.1)\nReceived: by NeXT Mailer (1.87.1)\nTo: ajteel@locutus.cs.colorado.edu\nSubject: your account\nCc: vaxops@locutus.cs.colorado.edu, usenet@locutus.cs.colorado.edu,\n mozer@locutus.cs.colorado.edu\nStatus: OR\n\n[...]\n\nI had already warned you that your inappropriate use of\nyour account here must stop. You have used your account\nhere as a soapbox for your political \"sui juris\" agenda.\n\n[...]\n\n\n\n[Editor's note: What commercial advertisemnets are we talking about?]\n\n\n[...]\n\n\n[Editor's note: I *wonder* who the other post was from??!]\n\nTo: \"Ted Frank\" \nSubject: Re: Bouncing \n\nCc: cstmr@eclipse.cs.colorado.edu, csops@eclipse.cs.colorado.edu\nReply-To: trouble@cs.colorado.edu\nIn-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 17 Mar 93 21:05:59 CST\nDate: Thu, 18 Mar 93 08:40:15 MST\nFrom: laszlo@eclipse.cs.colorado.edu\n\n--------\n\n >Bounced names:\n > garry@research.att.com\n > bill@kean.usc.mun.ca\n > jad@hopper.Virginia.EDU\n > kima@gator.rational.com\n >\n >Hello All:\n > I am having trouble reaching the following (keeps bouncing).\n > If you sent me mail and haven't gotten a response, check here.\n > Also, can anyone tell me why these are bouncing? I used\n > the reply in elm which should send it right back, right?\n >With Explicit Reservation Of All Rights (U.C.C. 1-207)\n >Regards, -A. J. Teel-, Sui Juris (ajteel@dendrite.cs.Colorado.EDU)\n >\n[...]\n\n[Editor's Note: The reason for posting the header lines from the bounced\nmessages was to show what the problem was and hopefully correct it.]\n\n[Ted Frank] It's inexcusable to post 150 lines of bounced mail headers to four\nnewsgroups.\n A simple four-line post would have been sufficient.\n\n---------------\n Resolution:\n---------------\n[Lazlo]\nyes i agree. BUT our policy is to not watch everypost someone here \nmakes.\nwe generally let the net itself take care of inappropriate postings\nby flaming the user into shape (which i assume this is ment to be).\nwe (CS operations) don't like to get involved in this stuff (unless\nits illegal, repetitive posts of 1gig gifs, harassment, or something\nelse that offends the community in general). my suggestion is that\nyou take it to email and explain what a post for bounces should look \nlike or tell him to RTFM\n\nlaz\n[Editor's note: Obviously, Ted had no such intention of doing so...]\n\nted frank | \"However Teel should have mentioned that though \nthf2@kimbark.uchicago.edu | his advice is legally sound, if you follow it \nthe u of c law school | you will probably wind up in jail.\"\nstandard disclaimers | -- James Donald, in misc.legal\n\n[Editor's Note: From this .sig, it seems obvious that Ted Frank has an\naxe to grind... Why that particular quote?.... Hmmm... Sure makes me wonder.]\n\n", "\n\nOops! Quite right. I got so busy that I saved Frank's last post back then,\nintending to respond when I could, and I sort of forgot. I'll try to do it\nsoon if anyone's still interested, and probably even if they're not.\n\n\nWell, yes, maybe I am. I'm trying to have people buy and take on my opinions,\nthus causing said opinions to spread in time-honoured memetic virus mode until\nthe world is a veritable paradise. So how about it, folks? As they say over\nhere, You Know It Makes Sense.\n\n\nCheers\n\nSimon", "ok - sorry about that...i didn't realise he was being sarcastic about\n those sort of things.\n\nbut i'll tell you, mike lupica (daily news) usually says some pretty\n funny things in his \"shooting from the lip\" columns...", "\nNo brains and he can't spell either.\n\n.edu?? I hope you're not a student at Duke...\nyou would be wasting your tuition.\n", "...\n\nApologies, I've not been paying attention.", "I have a request for those who would like to see Charley Wingate\nrespond to the \"Charley Challenges\" (and judging from my e-mail, there\nappear to be quite a few of you.) \n\nIt is clear that Mr. Wingate intends to continue to post tangential or\nunrelated articles while ingoring the Challenges themselves. Between\nthe last two re-postings of the Challenges, I noted perhaps a dozen or\nmore posts by Mr. Wingate, none of which answered a single Challenge. \n\nIt seems unmistakable to me that Mr. Wingate hopes that the questions\nwill just go away, and he is doing his level best to change the\nsubject. Given that this seems a rather common net.theist tactic, I\nwould like to suggest that we impress upon him our desire for answers,\nin the following manner:\n\n1. Ignore any future articles by Mr. Wingate that do not address the\nChallenges, until he answers them or explictly announces that he\nrefuses to do so.\n\n--or--\n\n2. If you must respond to one of his articles, include within it\nsomething similar to the following:\n\n \"Please answer the questions posed to you in the Charley Challenges.\"\n\nReally, I'm not looking to humiliate anyone here, I just want some\nhonest answers. You wouldn't think that honesty would be too much to\nask from a devout Christian, would you? \n\nNevermind, that was a rhetorical question.", "How much better to get wisdom than gold, to choose understanding rather\nthan silver! ", "\n[ stuff deleted ]\n |> Are you calling names, or giving me a title? If the first, read your \n |> paragraph above, if not I accept the title, in order to let you get into the\n |> um, well, debate again.\n\n Hasan replies:\n I didnot know that \"Master of wisdom\" can be \"name clling\" too,\n unless you consider yourself deserve-less !\n\nUnless you are referring to someone else, you have in fact given me a name \nI did not ask for, hence the term 'name calling'.\n\n |> So what do you expect me to tell you to tell you, Master of Wsidom, \n |> \t\t\t\t\t\t\t ^^^\n |> ------------------------------------------------------------------\n I replied:\n |> If you insist on giving me names/titles I did not ask for you could at\n |> least spell them correctly. /sigh.\n\n Hasan gloats:\n That was only to confuse you! (ha ha ha hey )\n\nHell-bent on retarding into childhood, no? \n\n |>when you are intentionally neglecting the MOST important fact that \n |>the whole israeli presence in the occupied territories is ILLEGITIMATE, \n |>and hence ALL their actions, their courts, their laws are illegitimate on \n |>the ground of occupied territories.\n |> \n >No, I am _not_ neglecting that, I'm merely asking you whether the existance\n >of Israeli citicens in the WB or in Gaza invalidates those individuals \n >right\n ^^^^^^^ are you trying to retaliate and confuse me here.\n\nNo, I really do try to spell correctly, and I apologize if I did confuse you.\nI will try not to repeat that.\n\n |> to live, a (as you so eloquently put it) human right. We can get back to the \n |> question of which law should be used in the territories later. Also, you have \n |> not adressed my question if the israelis also have human rights.\n\n\n First, my above statement doesnot say that \"the existence of israeli citizens\n in the WB revoke their right of life\" but it says \"the israeli occupation\n of the WB revoke the right of life for some/most its citizens - basically\n revokes the right of for its military men\". Clearly, occupation is an\n undeclared war; during war, attacks against military targets are fully legitimate. \n\nOk, let me re-phrase the question. I have repeatedly asked you if the \nIsraelis have less human rights than the palestinians, and if so, why.\nFrom your posting (where you did not directly adress my question) I inferred\nthat you thought so. Together with the above statement I then assumed that the\nreason was the actions of the state of Israel. Re: your statement of \noccupation: I'd like you to define the term, so I don't have to repeat this\n'drag the answer out of hasan' procedure more than neccesary.\n\n Secondly, surely israeli have human rights, but they ask their goverment to\n protect it by withdrawing from the occupied terretories, not by further oppressing\n Palestinean human rights.\n\nI'm sorry, but the above sentence does not make sense. Please rephrase it.\n\n\n |> If a state can deprive all it's citizens of human rights by its actions, then \n |> tell me why _any_ human living today should have any rights at all?\n\n\n Because not all states are like Israel, as oppressive, as ignorant, or as tyrant.\n\nOh, ok. So how about the human rights of the Syrians, Iraqis and others?\nDoes the name of Hama sound familiar? Or how about the kurds in Iraq and\nTurkey? \nHow about the Same in Sweden (Ok, maybe a bit farfetched..) the Russians in\nthe Baltic states or the Moslem in the old USSR and Yugoslavia?\nDo the serbs have any human rights remainaing, according to you?\n\n\n |> |> And which system do you propose we use to solve the ME problem?\n |> \n |> The question is NOT which system would solve the ME problem. Why ? because\n |> any system can solve it. \n |> The laws of minister Sharon says kick Palestineans out of here (all palestine). \n |> \n |> I asked for which system should be used, that will preserve human rights for \n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n |> all people involved. I assumed that was obvious, but I won't repeat that \n |> mistake. Now that I have straightened that out, I'm eagerly awaiting your \n |> reply.\n\n So you agree that that an israeli solution wouldnot preserve human rights.\n (i am understanding this from your first statement in this paragraph).\n\nNo, I'm agreeing that to just kick all the Palestinians out of Israel proper \nwould probably lead to disaster for both parties. If that's what you refer \nto as the 'Israeli solution' then so be it.\n\n |> Joseph Weitz (administrator responsible for Jewish colonization) \n |> said it best when writing in his diary in 1940:\n |> \t \"Between ourselves it must be clear that there is no room for both\n |> \t peoples together in this country.... We shall not achieve our goal\n |> \t\t\t\t\t\t^^^ ^^^\n |> \t of being an independent people with the Arabs in this small country.\n |> \t The only solution is a Palestine, at least Western Palestine (west of\n |> \t the Jordan river) without Arabs.... And there is no other way than\n |> \t to transfer the Arabs from here to the neighbouring countries, to\n |> \t transfer all of them; not one village, not one tribe, should be \n |> \t left.... Only after this transfer will the country be able to\n |> \t absorb the millions of our own brethren. There is no other way out.\"\n |> \t\t\t\t DAVAR, 29 September, 1967\n |> \t\t\t\t (\"Courtesy\" of Marc Afifi)\n |> \n\n\nOh? Have you met with them personally, to read their diaries? Fascinating.\nWhat do you _do_ for a living?\n\n\n Above you wrote that you understood what i meant (underlined by ^ ): \n any system can be used to solve the conflict , but not any system would \n resolve it JUSTLY.\n\nAn unjust solution would be a non-solution, per definition, no?\nYou said the following:\n\nFor all A it holds that A have property B.\nThere exists an A such that property B does not hold.\n\nThus, either or both statements must be false.\n\n |> Guess where that takes your logic? To never-never land. \n\n\nI was merely pointing out a not so small flaw in your reasoning.\nSince you claim to be logical I felt it best to point this out\nbefore you started using your statements to prove a point or so.\nAm I then to assume you are not logical?\n\n\n\nAny quote can be misused, especially when used to stereotype all \nindividuals by a statement of an individual. If you use the same\nmethods that you credit 'Zionists' with, then where does that place you?\n\nOh, by the way, I'd advice you not to assume anything about my 'loyalties'.\nI will and am condemning acts I find vile and inhuman, but I'll try as \nlong as I can not to assume those acts are by a whole people.\nBy zionist above do you mean the state of Israel, the government of Israel, \nthe leaders of Israel (political and/or religious) or the jews in\ngeneral? If you feel the need to condemn, condemn those responsible\ninstead. How would you feel if we started condemning you personally\nbased on the bombings in Egypt? \n\n--\n", "[deletia wrt pathetic Jee-zus posting by Bissel] \n\nNO. He hasn't extended to US the courtesy you've shown us, so he don't get no\npie. Tammy, I respect your beliefs because you don't try to stamp them into\nmy being. I have scorn for posters whose sole purpose appears to be to\nevangelize.", "\n\n\nOnly in my dreams....", "\nSuch lunacy!\n", "And again......\n title says it all. WHY?", "Haven't seen this one on here yet, so here it goes:\n\nB. arely\nA. dequate,\nT. otally\nF. ***ed!\n\n I don't know about adequate, but it fits the acronym. =)\n\n-- \nAndrew Diederich diederic@spot.colorado.edu", "\nOf your spelling, eh?\n\n\t\t\tDr Zippy.", "k\n\nGuys, guys, (and gals), let's lay off Jason here. Though he stepped\nin it, he has been very good so far about admitting he doesn't know\nwhat he's talking about, and even more stunning is that he seems", "\n\n\nGeez, I think some of these people have been too long on the net,\nyou are not going to convince anyone of anything through violent\nlanguage, one wonders why so many have violent tounges...\n\n\n\n\n", "\n\nAnd it is a damn good thing that she did post it since she claims to represent\npeople in rec.sport.hockey.\n\n\n\nHer sole purpose in mentioning the net, as Steve Gallichio has already \npointed out, is to lend weight to her points through association with the\ninternet. There is no other reason to mention the internet. This is \nmisrepresentation and if the internet was a private corporation Alison\nwould be leaving herself wide open to all kinds of civil suits.\n\n\nThis is not a letter. It is a petition claiming to represent a large\nproportion of rec.sport.hockey users, and by implication, a significant\nnumber of internet users. 65 names can in no way be considered a \n\"large\" proportion of rec.sport.hockey which, while we have no way of\ncounting actual readership, is accessible to hundreds of thousands of\npeople. 65 persons is no more than a fly's fart in a windstorm.\n \n\n\nGee. You looked up \"large\" in the dictionary? What next? Two syllable \nwords?\n\n\nLet me suggest that the only place you are likely to envy the magnitude of \n65 is when you are looking for ways to beef up your IQ scores.\n\n\n\nAs I said, he *might* be impressed by the size of the list of names. But \nit would have to be considerably larger. But even this definition does\nnot account for the original context from which you lifted this sentence.\n\n\nWell then what the hell is your point? You don't really know if you have\nan opinion about the hockey issue but you do know that you don't like me. \nIs that it?\n\n\n-- ", "\nWelcome. I am the official keeper of the list of nicknames that people\nare known by on alt.atheism (didn't know we had such a list, did you).\nYour have been awarded the nickname of \"Buckminster.\" So the next time\nyou post an article, sign with your nickname like so:\nDave \"Buckminster\" Fuller. Thanks again.\n\nJim \"Humor means never having to say you're sorry\" Copeland", "\n\nHello. I am the David Sternlight keeper of the FAQ. Unfortuantely I cannot\nfind it at the present time.\n\nFrom the original FAQ:\n\nQuestion: Does anyone take David Sternlight serious?\n\nFact: No one takes David Sternlight serious. They review his opinions and\nin most cases immediately discard them or jerk them over to\nalt.fan.david-sternlight which actually should be alt.flame.david-sternlight.\n\nA photograph of David Sternlight for the curious:\n\n\n\n |\\/\\/\\/\\|\n | |\n | (o)(o)\n C _) David Sternlight\n | ,___| Net.Police\n | / a.k.a. PROUD\n _0--------/\\/----\\/\\-------0_ DICK OF\n / /0 \\----/ 0\\ \\ THE INTERNET\n / | \\ \\||/ / | \\\n / /|DAVID || POLICE|\\ \\\n _/_____/ || ] || | [#] || \\_____\\_\n |_______/ |\\____/ || \\__*_/| \\_______| \n\n\nQuestion: Why does David continue to relate mis statements regarding\nencryption and other topics?\n\nFact: David Sternlight has a chemical imbalance of the right side of his\nbrain.\n\n\n", "What are you, retarded?", "\n----------\nDon't worry, Danny, every blatantly violent and abusive posting made by \nHamzah is immediately forwarded to the operator of the system in which he \nhas an account. I'd imagine they have quite a file started on this \nfruitcake--and have already indicated that they have rules governing \nracist and threatening use of their resources. I'd imagine he'll be out \nof our hair in a short while.", "critus\n\n\n\n\n \n", "\nIn a word, yes.\n", " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\n\nJoachim\n\nI have restrained from involvement in flame wars. These comments however make\nme long for the days when I was a flame warrior. I would hope that you would\nrefrain from such idiotic slander. \n\n\nWinslow (formerly of Madison)\n\nP.S. I might have to drop the formerly and become the \"old\" Winslow of Madison.", "Sounds similar to something Wally Schirra said.", "A delightful message, interesting, and so kindly written. Thanks.", "Anyone around here read this yet?\nDoes Anita have a number?\n\n\n\nTony", "\n\n\nWrong newsgroup or no, What did Syd mean when he wrote that line?", "\nYou don't think these are little things because with twenty-twenty\nhindsight, you know what they led to.", "\n\nGee, since you ignored the entire substance of my substantial\npost, you got a lot of nerve claiming that I don't understand\nwhat's being talked about.\n\nRespond to the previous post or shut the fuck up. You're\nreally annoying.\n\n\n-- \nMaddi Hausmann madhaus@netcom.com\nCentigram Communications Corp San Jose California 408/428-3553", "I would like to publicly apologize to our Anisa Aldoubosh\n for playing :\n****\nWell Anisa I am not sure that I feel the necessary remorse.\nYou and another Muslim lady ( Hanan Ashrawi ) seems to me to\nbe some attempt to charm the west into forgetting what you\nare really saying.\nIt is not that we hate muslims but we hate certain things you\nare saying every now and then. And it is depressing to ponder the \nprospects for peace while those wievs are held by your people.\nNot that we are better then you , we have our own prejudices\nand vices in the West thank you. But your views are really \ndepressing . Thus I have fallen in the temptation to tease\nand make a little fun instead of ....\nand have problems to mobilize the necessary remorse!\n\nBest Regards\n\n\n ", "\tNeed I say more???????\n\n", "\nRoger? Lecture someone on not using smileys? What sweet hipocracy...\n\nKOZ", "John Berryhill, Ph.D. writes\n\n\numm, please don't lump us all together. It's those blatant,\nfundamentalist pickers that give the rest of us a bad name. Some of\nus try very hard to be discreet and stay alert.\n", "\n\n\n\tCan't we just stick this guy in the FAQ and stop responding to him,\nguys? The last several flame-wars with him have been pretty much identical.\nCould someone just collect all the articles from this one, and simply\nre-post the entire block whenever he tries to start one? It'd be simpler.\nRoger apparently is one of those embarassing specimens who enjoys flames.\nWhy give him what he wants?\n\n\tOh, Roger.. You're dull.. very dull... You should get a new act.", "\nUm, Kent... just what *have* you been doing with his wife?!? ;-D\n", "[...]\n[...]\n[...]\n\n\"Hey, what the hell do you mean by that? You suck. I have a god-given\nright to express opinions, carry a gun and to not wear a helmet, goddamn \nit. Everything you stand for is STUPID.\"\n\n\n\n\nYou know, Alan, I really like this one.\n\n\n-----\nTommy McGuire\nmcguire@cs.utexas.edu\nmcguire@austin.ibm.com", ".Chris\n", "\n\n\n You are hereby authorized not to laugh. By special dispensation of\nher Hillariness. This offer void where prohibited by law, consumer must\npay applicable sales tax.....\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------", "\nHow about the nickname Bake \"Flamethrower\" Timmons?\n\nYou weren't at the Koresh compound around noon today by any chance, were you?\n\nRemember, Koresh \"dried\" for your sins. ", "\nDon't kid around... They just might listen.", "\nOuch. I guess I didn't. Sorry. But my comment was just more\n'irony' into the fire.\n\nCheers,\nKent", "\n[ a nearly perfect parody -- needed more random CAPS]\n\n\nThanks for the chuckle. (I loved the bit about relevance to people starving\nin Somalia!)\n\nTo those who've taken this seriously, READ THE NAME! (aloud)\n", "\n And you're the guy that doesn't know that illiterate people can't write \ncoherent sentences. Does that make you superior somehow?\n\n Steve\n[]", "\n\n\n\n\n\nPeople get a life !!!!!!!!!!", " \n\nHuh, if ignorance is strength, then I won't distribute this piece\nof information if I want to follow your advice (contradiction above).\n\n\nCheers,\nKent", "Walter-\n\nI tried several times in the past to communicate with you and Susan, but\nyou ignored me, and I don't honestly believe my letters were mean. Rather\nI thought they were thoughtful and compassionate, but I see now what I should\nhave seen then. Call me naive.\n\nI give up on this group. As my Lord advised, that if you are unwelcome in\na city then brush the dust of your feet and go on.\n\nIf anyone cares about the topic they write to me direct, if not, well,\nmay God bless you as well.", "\nYou could take my wrongly spelled surname :-).\n\nCheers,\nKent Sandvik", "\n: >We could start with those posters who annoy us the most, like Bobby or\n: >Bill.\n\n: Your wish is my command.\n\n: Bill \"Shit-stirrer\" Connor\n: Bobby \"Circular\" Mozumder\n\nI'm not sure my new nom d'net is exactly appropriate, but it comes\nvery close. Considering what I have to wade through before I make one\nof my insightful, dead-on-the-money repsonses, I have to agree that\nsomething's getting stirred up. I would like to believe my\ncharacterization of what I respond to would be kinder though, but if\nyou insist ...\n\nI am also surprised to find that I have offended anyone, but in some\ncases it's unavoidable if I am to say anything at all. For those to\nwhom fairness is important, check out my contributions, haven't I been\nmost generous and patient, a veritable paragon of gentility?\n\nOh, BTW, I don't mind being paired with Bobby; I admire his tenacity.\nHow many of you would do as well in this hostile environment - you\nthink -I'm- offensive ?! read your own posts ...\n\nLove and kisses,\n\nBill\n\nP.S.", "Simple, eh?", " (in real life, Elias DAvidson) quotes\n\n\nA nutcase quoting a crackpot.\n\nNext time, post this to rec.humor, or perhaps alt.conspiracy.\n", "\n\n\n\n\nHey puppy, you are getting further around the bend every day. But\nI wouldn't miss your adolescent ravings for the world, everyone\nneeds a good laugh now and then. :-)\n", "\nMe too!", "\nPersonally, I think Jeffy-Poo was still smarting more from the third degree\nburns he suffered after April 1st last year rather than the supposed burns\nthat he suffered in \"the joke\". Granted I was one of those people that were\ntaken in by it and I was certainly concerned...and then pissed at him for \npulling such a thing (which I made known to him).\n\nBut then again, for an April Fool \"joke\" I would also go on record as saying\nthat it was the best orchestrated one I've ever seen and it certainly sucked\na LOT of people into believing it 8-( 8-| 8-\\ 8-)...\n\n\"sick\" - \"twisted\"??? Who in this group could ever be accused of such a thing?\n\nI tip my twisted lid to thee Jeffy 8-).\n", "\nNow, now, before we get too carried away here....", "\nNor mine, either of them!", "\n\nIf a six year old child does a funny trick and you say well done he will\ndo it again and it may be funny. Then they may repeat it over and over\nagain bu you still have to pretend its funny even though it isn't any\nmore. Once they are older than six you expect them to realise that doing\nthe same thing over and over again isn't funny any more.\n\nBasicaly Ed fails to be amusing because he is merely crass. He does not\nmake jokes that have any political content beyond attempting to ridicule\ntheir target. Calling someone Slick Willie is not funny even if you put\non a red nose while you say it, it was a good debating point used on the\nspur of the moment 12 months ago but now its use merely demonstrates that the\nuser couldn't think of anything original to say.\n\n\nIn the UK there is a tradition of old retired Colnels who bore the dinner\nguests rigid with their descriptions of old campagns. Ed is clearly one\nof this type of people who fails to see when a joke is spent.\n\n", "\n\tActually, I've been following her remarks for some time, with\ninterest. I'm also a member of academia, and her remarks have nothing\nbut elevate her respectability in my eyes. It remains to be seen whether\nyou are the radical fringe, or I.\n\n\tIt is generally an error to assume that your beliefs are held by\nthe majority, or even a sizable minority. Especially when you're seeing\ntens, nay dozens, of people on usenet agreeing with you.", "\n\n\n\n\n\n Oh, oh, we all know what's going to happen now don't we!", "Watch your language ASSHOLE!!!!", "\n\n\nSure, but Robert \"Koresh-Fetesh\" (sic) Knowles seems good, too. :) \n\nThough I wasn't there, at least I can rely on you now to keep me posted on what\nwhat he's doing.\n\nHave you any other fetishes besides those for beef jerky and David Koresh? \n--\nBake Timmons, III", "\nCool it, will you? Let people form their own opinions.\nEven Mr. Sternlight might be right sometime, and you guys\nare setting things up so that the only way he can regain \nany credibility is to renounce his previous statements and\nmove towards the mainstream of net.opinion. This does not\nbespeak tolerance, IMO.\n\n\nIndeed... ", "-> >\tI think he's talking about Kinsey who came up with the 10%\n-> >statistic used heavily by gay groups to push their political agenda.\n-> >Kinsey's work has often been accused of lacking a strong scientific\n-> >backbone. \n-> \n-> I really must defend my man Alfred. Not that this poster was really\n-> to be taken seriously, since the deletiae are a phobe's rants. But\n-> still, some who aren't such phobes mistakenly criticize my man. \n\n\tYou really need to be able to support yourself without\ninsults. The article you're calling rants actually had absolutely\nnone of my opinions and was only a series of factual statements.", "\nsatire \\'sa-tir\\ n [MF or L; MF, fr. L _satura_, _satira_, fr. (lanx)\nsatura full plate, medley, fr. fem. of _satur_ sated; akin to L\n_satis_ enough - more at SAD](1509) 1: a literary work holding up\nhuman vices and follies to ridicule or scorn. 2: trenchent wit,\nirony, or sarcasm used to expose and discredit vice or folly. syn see\nWIT.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tspl", "Bye.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\"Nothing is as inevitable as a mistake whose time has Garrett Johnson\n come.\" --Tussman Garrett@Ingres.com\n\"The probability of someone watching you is proportional\nto the stupidity of your action.\" - Unknown", ": [I have some qualms about postings like this. You might want to\n: engage in a bit more conversation with Joel before deluging \n: someone who doesn't expect it with cards. --clh]\n\nI'd suggest that more than _some_ qualms are in order. Without knowing\nanything about the situation, it is impossible to evaluate the\nappropriateness of writing. Some folks will check, others with more\nzeal than time may not.\n\nIMHO, requests of this nature should be made only for oneself or for someone\nwho knows and approves of the idea. Otherwise, it is intrusive and\ndisrespectful of the individual.", "\n\n[Andi's posting deleted...]\n\nHamaza's only comment is:\n\n\nAndi, when you get the full-fledged support of Hamaza Salah, you know\nyou're on the wrong track.\n", "What are you stupid?", "\n[all kinds of unacceptably racist drivel deleted]\n\nAnd after that we find the man has absolutely nothing to say.\n\nRichard J. Rauser, you are a dishonourable little man.\n\ncaustically, when necessary,\n\nrm\n ", "\n\nOK: So you were a naive teen.\n\n\n\tWrong: 1915 and if you do your homework, 1909.\nBut he was born LAST century (1883).\n", "\nIt is ironic that in any post that criticizes langauge ability, the critic\ninvariably makes a mistake himself (\"english\" is generally written \"English\".)\n\n\nOddly, I do not see that I have contested any of that. Perhaps you, with \nassuredly greater \"english\" ability can explain, in tiny words that I might\ngrasp their meaning, precisely WHERE I infer that you have said any of those\nthings? \n\n\nNo Mr Fisher, you should place the burden of proof on the one who makes the\nallegation in the first place. You do not. Perhaps you might explain why that\nis? As for the email route, Mr Fisher, you might have tried that yourself. ", "\n\tWhatta ass!!!!!\n\n", "\nJohn:\n\n\tIt not \"good netiquette\" to quote a complete article :-) NOTHING\nPERSONAL, Please! :-)\n\n\tThis views sadden me too! Don't think that I don't care! Sorry\nif it seemed different. It IS serious stuff; but I have a 'sick' sense of\nhumor though (some say... :-)\n\nTolerance!", "\n\n\nUh, Gerald, I think he was joking...\n", "Please get a REAL life.\n\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\nWhat loyalty!\n\nJim, it seems you've been reading a little too much Russell Hoban\nlately. As Hemingway said, my imitators always imitate the _bad_\naspects of my writing. Hoban would, no doubt, say the same here.\n\n", "\n\nFirst, thanks to all who replied to my original question.", "\n Who cares what the fellow wrote anyway? I mean, it came from\nPSUVM, so how could it possibly have been of any importance?\n\n=====\n\n(disperse smileys until no longer offended)\n\n", ": \n: >: I hope my cynicism is misplaced here. Go ahead...I'm not afraid to\n: >: be wrong every once in a while. But, I have an uneasy feeling that I\n: >: am right. :(\n: >\n: >It is and you are wrong yet you emotionally state a bunch of crap as fact\n: >with a tiny disclaimer at the end. Check your facts first and grow up.\n: >Why is there such a strong correlation between interest in cryptography\n: >and immaturity I wonder.\n: \n: Oh, I see, flame someone, tell them that they are immature, tell them\n: they are wrong, and then don't offer any proof for your assertions.\n: \n: You really *are* a putz. Put up or shut up.\n: \n\nI will provide any proof you wish in private. Name it, dickhead.\n", "Roger,\n\n\t SHUT UP.\n\n \tThank you.\n", "Aside to the moderator:\n\n\n\nI won't quote any of it, but there are several errors in the article.\nNot things that are just differences of opinion, but the writer just\nplain has his facts confused.\n\nFor example, Kip McKean was *asked* to come to the Lexington church\nby the leaders there. He brought no team. He actually had been in\nCharleston, IL up to that point. He had many friends, even leaders in\nGainesville, telling him not to go, because people in the Northeast\nweren't \"open\" and he'd be wasting his time and talents. Really!!\n(This fact was a kind of \"inside joke\" at one point after the church\nin Boston took off so well... Not open, indeed!) ;-)\n\nI could take it on point by point, but I am not in a position to know\none way or the other about some things in the article. I just wanted\nto point out that it contains misinformation.\n\nMark", "\n[some big deletions]\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ \n\nAnother in a string of idiotic generalizations. Gad, I'm surprised I got \nthis far down in the post. I guess some just like seeing their names up on \na CRT. \n\nLike me :-)\n\n\n\nPhil Trodwell ", "Well, it's that time of year again here at IU: graduation.\nUnfortunately, this means that I am out of here, more than likely for\ngood. I cannot say if I'll be in here under another username or not, or\neven if I'll ever get back in here at all. I am leaving this part of my\nministry to another brother, John Right. So, have fun and remember that\nflaming can be considered slander.", "\nSome of us aren't that fucking stupid you cock sucking asshole. That's why\nwe haven't had our own little DD suaree. I'm soo impressed that you've had\nto spend your own precious little dollars to make up for your own stupid\nact. Now go fuck off.\n\n\n\nFriends killed by Drunk Driving Assholes like Andress Infante: 2\nChildren friends orphaned by Drunk Driving Assholes like Infante: 2\n\n\n\nNow who's the self-righteous asshole, you weak willed fuck head?\n\n", "\nNo, no, no! Bill, please, don't nominate ANYone who pronounces it\n\"noo-q-lar\"! Jimmy always used to drive everyone nuts when he did that! \nAnd don't let Amy anywhere near! And...\n\n\n{Emily Litella voice}\n\n...never mind.\n\n------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ \n\nPaul Havemann (Internet: paul@hsh.com)", "\n\nWhen someone starts criticizing the Leftists for not being Leftist\nenough, we get a pretty clear idea of what they believe to be normal.\nI hope that your not still calling yourself fair and unbiased, Elias.\n", "\n\nCan you tell us more?", "[...]\n\nAw, c'mon. The serious overreaction ought to be worth a couple of points,\nnot to mention the bit condemning everthing the flamee might ever say.\nThe non sequitur about guns and helmets is just the proper flourish.\n\nI personally am of the opinion that there are two types of good flames.\nThe first does trade ``quality,'' in the sense you mention, for heat.\nThis has a certain surprise value and if done correctly, which I\ncontend was done above, is reasonably entertaining. While it is true that\nthe flame I posted does not mention anyone's habitual velocity, friends,\ndinner, or entertainment, it says what it needs to with the appropriate\nflair and it is short. The weakness of this type of flame is actually\nthat it can easily be taken too far, at which point it becomes trite and\nboring. (Witness the Infante thread recently....)\n\nThe other type of flame, which you seem to be glorifying above, has\na few weaknesses as well. In the first place, it can get verbose and \ntedious in the extreme, particularly if the reader does not already strongly\nidentify with one side or the other. In the second, discussing someone's\npersonal qualities, habits, and so forth can quickly become libelous.\n(Or is that slanderous? I can never remember the difference.) This leads\nto a proliferation of lawyers, which is widely regarded as a BAD THING.\nFinally, introducing polysyllabic words is problematic. I can't haul my\nbig dic. around on my bike, and it would be bad form to use a word which\nactually turned out to have a meaning, especially one which ran counter\nto my use and flamage in general.\n\nIn summary, Blaine, your score for that flame is incorrect. While it may\nbe the wunder-flame, the weaknesses you point out are not necessarily\nweaknesses, and your suggested corrections are not always useful nor\napplicable. You also probably couldn't outrun a tennis ball with a\nflatulent dog stapled to your posterior, and I'll bet you and your \nmotorcycle lean to the outside while turning. The same goes for anyone\nwho looks like you, too.\n\n\n-----\nTommy McGuire\nmcguire@cs.utexas.edu\nmcguire@austin.ibm.com", "\n\nI followed up without a thought of double-checking...if I double-checked\nevery fact people vomited onto the table here on the net, I'd never have\ntime to sleep. But to pass the buck to the person who originally posted\nthat quote...\n\n...well, Michael? Take it away! (wild applause)\n\nDrewcifer", " Seems to me that Johns H.D. in Ft Collins used to carry some\n honest to god womens garb.>\n\n\n", "\n\n\nDid you have anyone in particular in mind there Jody?", "\nYou forgot the smiley-face.\n\nI can't believe this is what they turn out at Berkeley. Tell me\nyou're an aberration.\n", "\nIgnorance is STRENGTH!", "\n\nWell I don't see any smileys here. I am trying to figure out if the poster\nis a dog or a wordprocessor. Couldn't be neither. Both are smarter than\nthis.\n\n\"I might not be great in Math\"\n\n\n-- ", "In my last post I referred to Michael Adams as \"Nick.\" Completely my\nerror; Nick Adams was a film and TV actor from the '50's and early '60's\n(remember Johnny Yuma, The Rebel?). He was from my part of the country,\nand Michael's email address of \"nmsca[...]\" probably helped confuse things\nin my mind. Purely user headspace error on my part. Sorry.", "There are actually only two of us. I do Henry, Fred, Tommy and Mary. Oh yeah,\nthis isn't my real name, I'm a bald headed space baby.", "It might be nice to:\n\n1. cut out the ad hominem attacks on Prof. Denning, Mr. Sternlight,\netc. If you have something objective to say about their views, go\nahead and say it (subject to point 2.). Personal attacks reflect more\non the attacker more than on the attackee. Throw light, not heat!\n\n2. restrict the discussion to appropriate newsgroups. I submit that\ncomp.org.acm and comp.org.ieee are not appropriate for this\ndiscussion. You have now made subscribers to these newsgroups aware of\nthe issue. If they want to know more or participate in the discussion,\nthey can easily join sci.crypt, comp.security.misc, alt.security, or\ncomp.org.eff.talk.\n-- ", "\n\tIf you have something reasoned and intelligent to say then you should\npost. If all you can do is rant and rave- save it.\n\n\tTrue conservatism is cutting spending and taxes. It's a matter of\ndebate just how succesful the last few presidents have been at that.\n\n\tI hear it again and again, and I've noticed far more often from \nliberals than anyone else- \"if you don't agree with me you are close-minded\"\n\tLook who's talking. I suggest you take a look at your post. I see\nnothing but unfair and unsubstantiated generalizations. It suggests that the\nauthor is anything but open-minded.\n\tNext time you feel like posting something like this- save it for \nsomebody who cares.\n", "\n\nSeems that you're more \"just misinformed\" than \"just wondering.\"\n\nThe comparison you're making is not just totally off base, but\noffensive to all sane people.", "\n\tAgain, tell us about it Ken!\n\n-=- Andy -=-\n", "Sounds as though his heart's in the right place, but he is not adept at\nexpressing it. What you received was _meant_ to be a profound apology.\nApologies delivered by overworked shy people often come out like that...\n", "\nLook up \"irony\", Keith.\n", "\nYup, that was quite contemptuous of the President to make a decision that\n12% disagree with...", "Just kidding\n", "\nYou're right. Thanks for enlightening me.", "\n\n\n\n\nDitto here too...\n\n", "\nUnless I'm imaging things, (always a possibility =) 1992 QB1, the Kuiper Belt\nobject discovered last year, is known as Smiley.\n", "You are quite the loser", "\nI just exchange ideas over the USENET with other people. I never \nattacked you as to put you in the need to defend yourself against me.\nI am not a violent person, and I do not see how can anyone be threatened\nby the opinions and ideas of others as expressed on USENET.\nI asked you to continue on email because I am not interested on a\nflamefest, where you change my words or just make up some of your own\nand present them as mine.\nSo, do not worry. You do not need to defend yourself because I am not\nattacking you.\n\n\nThis is a good advice for yourself.\n\n", "Of course you do. You married it a while ago, remember?\n", "\nI DID NOT WRITE THAT! In fact, those statements were a rebuttal to\nan earlier posting that I made, and this was culled from my *strong*\nrebuttal to those statements. PLEASE! Slander. Shame.\n\n\n\n\n\"after the game, it's no big deal\" ???? After the employees leave\nthe workplace, it doesn't matter what they say about the boss or the\ncompany? Puhlease.\n\n\n\n\nFirst, it's Ross Porter. Second, I am really tired of seeing the kind\nof response that indicates that all I do is parrot what some media\nperson says or writes. I have a brain. If I choose to characterize\nsomething in a certain fashion, it's because that is what I believe\nto be accurate. It is not just because some unnamed \"mediot\" made\nthe characterization. \n\n\nI did *not* brand Darryl's response as petulant, because I never heard\nany response from Darryl. I did call him a name. I referred to him \nas a primadonna. Someone else concluded that I did that because I\n\"hate\" him. I don't hate him. I think he's a primadonna. If you\ndisagree, fine. But stop putting words in my mouth.\n\n\n\n--\tThe Beastmaster\n\n", "What an anal retentive you are wimp.", "\n\nWell said Mr. Beyer :)\n", "Just Testing !!!\n\tNo flames please !", "[reply to mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington)]\n \n \nThe guy didn't sound too shy to me. He sounded like a jerk. I say ditch\nhim for someone more knowledgeable and empathetic.", "\nHowever, he said on his radio show today that he won't read anything\nfrom the two alt groups. He simply deletes them without reading them. He\nsays that some of the people in the two groups are vicious.", "*>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>\n Is this a joke ?\n *>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>\n\n-- \n ___________________________________________________________________ ", "Maddi: >>\n\n\n\nNo, no, no! I've already been named by \"Killfile\" Keith.\nMy nickname is Maddi \"Never a Useful Post\" Hausmann, and\ndon't you DARE forget it, \"Half\".\n\n\nYou really should quote Ivan Karamazov instead(on a.a), as he was\nthe atheist.\n\n-- \nMaddi Hausmann madhaus@netcom.com\nCentigram Communications Corp San Jose California 408/428-3553", "Is this group for real? I honestly can't believe that most of you expect you\nor your concerns to be taken remotely seriously if you behave this way in a\nforum for discussion. Doesn't it ever occur to those of you who write letters\nlike the majority of those in this group that you're being mind-bogglingly\nhypocritical?\n", "[obnoxious name-calling deleted]\n\n\tOk, who wants rm off of here? I say we get his net privleges revoked.\n\tAny seconds?\n", "Hey Serdar,\n What are you retarded?", "\nuhhhh there are only three l's.", "\n\n\nHow do you know it's based on ignorance, couldn't that be wrong? Why would it\nbe wrong \nto fall into the trap that you mentioned? \n\nAlso, if I may, what the heck where we talking about and why didn't I keep \nsome comments on there to see what the line of thoughts were?\n\nMAC\n \n\n\n\n\n\n--\n****************************************************************\n Michael A. Cobb\n \"...and I won't raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois\n class to pay for my programs.\" Champaign-Urbana\n -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu", "\n\n\n\n\nCould someone explain where these names come from? I'm sure there's a \nperfectly good reason to name a planetoid \"Smiley,\" but I'm equally sure that\nI don't know what that reason is.", "MELITTIN", "I agree totally with you! Amen! You stated it better and in less world \nthan I did.", "\nNope. Flames should be *interesting*. Around here, guns & helmets\nare the wallpaper.\n\n\nNot everyone in rec.motoland is so easily amused. Blaine, as an Elder,\nhas seen the Superflamers at their peaks (or depths, if you prefer). \nWith that sort of incendiary backdrop, awarding your faltering Bic a\n0.5 was the purest act of charity.\n\n\nUnless, of course, your audience has only seen several thousand similarly\nuninspiring attempts in this arena. In that case, the trite & boring\nthreshold tends to drift away from where you first set it, as yours will,\neventually (or not).\n\n\nUntil you can yank the flame out of Blaine's Internet Port before he\ncan io_close() it, you are in no position to lecture him, grasshopper.\n\n\nOh please (yawn), you're slipping further down the scale with each\nsuccessive attempt. It's so embarrassing to watch. Say, you're not\nfrom Waco, are you?", "\nBetter yet: act.\n\nJohn", "\n[...]\n\nThese don't seem like \"little things\" to me. At least, they are orders\nworse than the motto. Do you think that the motto is a \"little thing\"\nthat will lead to worse things?", "\ni'm telling you, sam, three l's. call up mom and ask.", "\n\n\nGreg's obviously confused. There aren't many (any) gentlemen on this \nnewsgroup. Well, maybe. One or two.\n", "\nI think you just answered your own question...\n", "\n\n\nhahahahahahahahahahaha - thanks for that, I haven't laughed so much in \nages!", "zillion lines in response to article <1993Apr18.034101.21934@iti.org>,\nin which Allen wrote a zillion lines in response to article\n<17APR199316423628@judy.uh.edu>, in which Dennis wrote another zillion\nlines in response to Allen.\n\nHey, can it you guys. Take it to email, or talk.politics.space, or\nalt.flame, or alt.music.pop.will.eat.itself.the.poppies.are.on.patrol,\nor anywhere, but this is sci.space. This thread lost all scientific\ncontent many moons ago.", "\n...execellent examples of Luther's insane rantings deleted...\n\nGee, I'm *sooooo* surprised that they don't teach this part of his\nideology in high schools today.\n", "Hi Christian friends,\n\nMy name is Joel, I have a sister who's 25th birthday is tomorrow.....She\nused to be on fire for the Lord, but somehow, for some reason, she\nbecame cold....she don't want to associate anymore with her old\nchristian friends.........so I thought maybe some of you could help her\nout again by sending her a postcard or card with a little message of\nencouragement.....hand written is okay....her address is 3150 Hobart\nAve. San Jose Ca. 95127...........\n\nThank you and God Bless.\n\nPS: Jesus Christ is LORD!!!!!!!! ", "\nPersonal attacks? \n\n\nDeliberate misinterpretation of a persons statement? (By cutting out\nthe part of the statement, he tries to blunt the thrust of the sentence.\nHe never addresses the issue of extreemist peace people not holding true\nto their ideals.)\n\n\nIgnoring the challenge? (He ignores the challenge that extreemists for\npeace tend to be quite insistent that everyone accept their ideals for\nthe world, and have even turned quite violent. (Witness, Chicago, summer\n1968)).\n\n\nParanoia? (He assumes that anyone who argues against his viewpoint must\n\"masturbate over Guns'N'Ammo.\")\n\nFire up the Oven, it isn't hot enough!\n", "\nBob: Excellent! To the point and correct! Spread the word. \n\n", "\n\nDitto,", "\nToo many clues, not enough substance. You ask a lot of\ngood questions, though, but they are questions *you* should\nbe worried about, not me. I'm not the inerrantist here.\n\nLet me know when you are ready to get serious.", "\nI think the next time I post something like this, I obviously need to make\nthe sarcasm a bit more obvious...\n\n\nchuck\n", "Hello, I'm back..\n\nI would first like to thank each and every person who sent me a response (be\nit a positive or negative one). I read EVERY letter and thought about \neach one!! \n\nI got all sorts of responses, from \"marry her\" to \"have nothing ever to \ndo with her again\"\n\nThrough reading the Bible and through a lot of prayer, here is what I have\ndecided to do.\n\nI sent her a letter today. First, i told her that if she was really serious\nabout moving away from home to another state that \"I would do anything to \nget you here in NC.\" I told her that I tried to find out if there were \nany new stores planning to be built---but they wouldn't tell me.\n\nAbout her marraige comment (I'm not gonna call it a proposal, cause\nI still don't know if it was a total joke or not) I more or less said\nthat \"Marry me?? Well, get transferred to NC first and then we'll talk :) :)\"\n\nHopefully, what i said could be interpreted either way.\n\nNeedless to say, there has been a lot of praying over this...I \nhave done a lot of reading about marraige from the Bible. If\nshe was dead serious about getting married---I wouldn't do it\nyet simply b/c she is not (as far as I know to this point) a Christian.\nIt just wouldn't work w/o God in the marraige as well. I figure\nthat if God wanrs this to go through--he's kept us in touch for 10 \nyears now---he can handle one more. If God wants it to happen, it\nwill happen!\n\nShe will be in NC in June meetinf some relatives so I'll get to \nsee her...and I'll get a letter from her befoe then so I know\nmore of what to look forward to.\n\nI guess all I can do now is wait and pray. I have decided not to tell\nmy folks until I'm totally sure what is going on.\n\nI do ask that everyone that wrote me to please keep this situation\nin your prayers..\n\nFinally, I would like to thank EVERYONE who wrote in...\n\nIf you have anything else for me...I will be at this email address\nfor one week. Please tell me anyhting you want...I'm curious\nhow folks think about what i did.\n\n\nThanx", "*thud*\n\n(see .sig)\n", "Reposted, without permission, from rec.music.dylan:\n", "\nActually, I was simply relaying the reasoning of this so-called genius BW\nwriter. I agree. The reasoning was foolish. \n\nNext time, before you say something foolish, be aware what you are responding\nto.", "How about posting one of her replies to your letters?", "In <1993Apr16.140953.5025@vax.cns..edu>, jbrown@vax.cns.muskingum.edu writes...\n\nI would appreciate it if you would not refer to Mr. Maynard by his\ninitials. Thanks, see you in the Norris finals.\n\nRon", "\n\n\nYes, and I do everyone else. Why, you may wonder, don't I do 'Fred'?\nWell, that would just be too *obvious*, wouldn't it? Oh yeah, this\nisn't my real name, either. I'm actually Elvis. Or maybe a lemur; I\nsometimes have difficulty telling which is which.\n\n-- \n\"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live\n in the real world.\" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden", "I responded to a post last week and it carried somewhat of a hostile\ntone for which I am apologizing for. It is not my intent to create\ncontriversy or to piss people off. To those who I offend, I'm sorry\n", "\n\n\n\n\nMy mistake. ", "Can someone please remind me who said a well known quotation? \n\nHe was sitting atop a rocket awaiting liftoff and afterwards, in answer to\nthe question what he had been thinking about, said (approximately) \"half a\nmillion components, each has to work perfectly, each supplied by the lowest\nbidder.....\" \n\nAttribution and correction of the quote would be much appreciated. ", "]I wrote the slash two blues for a bit of humor which seems to be lacking\n]in the MOA Owners News, when most of the stuff is \"I rode the the first\n]day, I saw that, I rode there the second day, I saw this\" \n\nI admit it was a surprise to find something interesting to read in \nthe most boring and worthless mag of all the ones I get.\n\n]any body out there know were the sense if humor went in people?\n]I though I still had mine, but I dunno... \n\nI think most people see your intended humor, I do, I liked the article.\nyou seem to forget that you've stepped into the political arena. as well\nintentioned as you may intend something you're walking through a china\nstore carrying that /2 on your head. everything you say or do says something\nabout how you would represent the membership on any given day. you don't\nhave to look far in american politics to see what a few light hearted\njokes about one segment of the population can do to someone in the limelight.\n\nOBMoto: I did manage to squeak in a reference to a /2 ;-)\n", "\n\n\nBut of course YOUR version of YOUR position has been included in the\nCharley Challenges, so your claim above is a flat-out lie. Further,\nonly last week you claimed that you \"might not\" answer the Challenges\nbecause you were turned off by \"included text\". So which is it, do\nyou want your context included in my articles or not? Come to think\nof it, this contradiction has the makings of a new entry in the next\nChallenges post.\n\nBy the way, I've kept every bloody thing that you've written related\nto this thread, and will be only too pleased to re-post any of it to\nback my position. You seem to have forgotten that you leave an\nelectronic paper trail on the net.\n\n\n\nNow, now, let's not change the subject. Wouldn't it be best to finish\nup the thread in question before you begin new ones?", "\n\nYes me, why?\n", "\n\n\n\n\nI don't remember the article that you removed so I can't comment on it.\nWhat I can comment on though is your response.\n\nDo you really believe that what you wrote is sufficient to refute the article?\nDo have any facts in addition to your opinion?", "\n\n\tTo big for a .sig? \n\n\tNo way!\n\n\n\tKeith \" Home of the billdboard .sig files \" Ryan\n\n\t=)\n\n---\n\nPrivate note to Jennifer Fakult.\n\n \"This post may contain one or more of the following:\n sarcasm, cycnicism, irony, or humor. Please be aware \n of this possibility and do not allow yourself to be \n confused and/or thrown for a loop. If in doubt, assume\n all of the above.", "\n\nAnd anyone who doesn't agree with you is, by your own definitions, a\n\"useless fart\". Just like any text that disputes your own \"findings\"\nis always described as \"flawed\" or \"biased\". In other words, you\ntrumpet the things you like and dismiss those that might embarass you.\nWe've seen you play these games here for a long time.\n\nOne thing is for sure: When it comes to \"useless farts\", you sure know \nwhat you're talking about.\n", "\n\nperhaps you can quote just a bit of her argument?", "Gilligan = Sloth\nSkipper = Anger\nThurston Howell III = Greed\nLovey Howell = Gluttony\nGinger = Lust\nProfessor = Pride\nMary Ann = Envy\n", "\nProof positive that some people are beyond satire.\n", "\n\nHey! I LIKE quiche, even if I did have to look \nat your note to spell it (assumed) correctly.\n\nReally, you <*sniff*> tough guys are all the same...", "\n Wow, look at alllthe pretty puddles!!!!\n\n Jimmy crack koan, and I don't care, Jimmy crack koan and i don't care, Jimmy\ncrack Koan and i don't care, Zen Master's gone away.....\n", "\nHow do you spell \"tuna helper\" ? ", "i'd just like to repeat and emphasize that because someone else is\ntrying to make you feel horrible and worthless does not mean that you\nshould feel that way, although that's easier to say than believe\nsometimes. remember, God made you and loves you, so he must think\nyou're something special. (excuse the trite language here.) also,\nthe bully may just be someone who is mean for no reason -- not out of\nintentional mental torture. has anyone else been harassed? maybe\nthey're just not talking about it. \n\ni would have emailed but my reactions weren't fast enough and the post\ni'm responding to didn't include your address. just take courage and\nremember that all of us on the net are rooting for you.", "Agreed.\nAgreed.\n\n\nAgreed.\n\n\nAnd this demonstrates, I assume, that you're a liberal. :-).", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\nI stand corrected. This is all from memory, mind you :-)\n\n\nYeah, that's what I was trying to say. No, REALLY!", "\n\n |>>|> Excerpts from \"Insight\" magazine, March 15, 1993\n\n | *Paranoia part deleted.*\n\n | Isn't Insight magazine published by the Mooneys?\n\n I don't remember the article that you removed so I can't comment on it.\n What I can comment on though is your response.\n\n Do you really believe that what you wrote is sufficient to refute\n the article? Do have any facts in addition to your opinion?\n\nNo one has time to chase down every rumor that gets printed\nin the National Enquirer or whatever. The point is to wait\nand see if the assertions of the (rather bizarre) original\npost will be corroborated in any way. Perhaps they will.\nThe recent posts of the rather bizarre original poster speak\nfor themselves.", "(Ali's letter deleted for brevity)\n\n\nRoger,\nYour responses might just exclude you from sharing your opinions,\nthen. You see, the same rights Ali has to mail her letter to the NHL\nare the same ones that let you post replies that mow her down like\nwheat at harvest-time. She never said she represented the entire\ninternet or the entire group rec.sport.hockey. She has every right to\nstate her opinion along with those of the fifty or sixty or\nhundred-odd folk who've agreed to allow her to list their names on the\nbottom of it. You may not agree with it. Fine. I really don't care\nenough about the name change to care. Your name isn't attached to it,\nso why moan and complain? If you felt her words were leading, well,\nyou're free to feel that way and take exception, but manners never\nhurt. I personally disagree and feel her generalizations were fine\n(I have the right to think and say that, too). Ali's under no\ncompunction to change a single word. Now, while you're free to\ndisagree with every word she wrote, to tear apart her character is\nuncalled for. I'm posting this as a form of public reprimand. If you\ntear down Ali's integrity and character publicly, you'll get chastised\npublicly in return. Would it have been so hard to say, \"Ali, please\nbe a bit more specific in your description, the way I've read it\nindicates you're stating my view also, and that's simply not true.\nI'd really like to see a disclaimer noting that you don't mean the\nentire internet or the entire r.s.h. group attached to it, despite\nyour intent to list names at the bottom. Thanks. Cordially as\nalways,\" &c. Calling her a moron and an asshole just reduces the\nweight of your words and the opinions of their author in the eyes of\nmyself, and possibly others. \n\nOh, and Ali, nice to see someone standing up for something, even if\nit's not something I personally advocate. :-)\n\n\n\n\n\n\n", "\nPerhaps because you just made it up?", "\n\nIf this doesn't beat all I ever heard! The above certainly says a\nmouthful about the mindset of Ted Frank, and also of statists\neverywhere.", "\n\nWell, you're going to have to practice, but you're getting\nthe hang of it. Soon we're going to have to give you a new\nnickname. Try these on for size:\n\nTammy \"Lucky Seven\" Healy\nTammy \"Pass the falafel\" Healy\nTammy \"R Us\" Healy\nTammy \"Learning by Doing\" Healy\n\n\n\nMaddi \"Never a Useful Post\" Hausmann\n\n-- \nMaddi Hausmann madhaus@netcom.com\nCentigram Communications Corp San Jose California 408/428-3553", "\nAd hominem, sarcastic innuendo? Absolutely. Forgotten? Hardly.\nBored? Not really. I try not to confuse \"life on a.a.\" with life.\n\nI just can't overcome the urge to tease/taunt folks who bound FAQ-less\nonto a.a. with such a chip on their shoulder. To listen to you,\none might think we belonged to some church!\n\nI appreciate the patience of others who questioned your posting\non a line-by-line content basis, though it's hard to know what\nimpact that might have had, as compared to, say, \"shovelling\".\n\n\nI think I only lamented that, whatever the initial satisfactions,\npast a certain point circular abuse-heaping was just that.\n\n\nSincere questions: Why are you here? What are you looking for?", "\n\nNice touch - using the word *seem*.\n-- \nDave Feustel N9MYI ", "\n\n\nPhill, are you trying to convince everyone on the net that\nyou are in fact an abject moron for some reason? Repeating\nthe same rubbish over and over again may make something a \n\"fact\" in whatever backwater you are posting from, but it doesn't\nwash here, so save it.\n\n", "\n[...]\n\n ^^^^^^^^^\n\nHe doesn't have a beard.\n\nRob, being pointless, wondeing if anyone else caught that.\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n____ ___ ____ / \\ Any resemblance between the above views and\n================== / .clarku.edu \\ want Clarkies to think about them.", "\n You know, I never really appreciated them before!\n\n", "\nWill someone please post the David Sternlight FAQ to alt.privacy.clipper before\nsomeone unfamiliar with him takes him seriously and starts yet another\nflame fest?", "[Pitt vs. Penn State controversy deleted]\n\nNo. It wouldn't be sufficient cause to bitch to the system operator if this\nwas just some guy saying that atheists are going to hell. The point was \nthat recently many messages were posted from that address. Each of these\nmessages was posted to a different newsgroup, with the apparent intent of\nprovoking the readers of that particular group. This, along with the fact\nthat these posts were written in all-caps, makes these posts suspect.\nWhoever is using this account is using it irresponsibly. If it is the\nintended user, they should consider appropriate action. If it is someone\nelse-- which seems a possibility, then this is also reason to report it.\n\tWe get many posts in the flavor of the one that started this thread.\nIt is only because I have seen posts on other groups by this user that I\nam considering action.", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHow can you assume it was a sarcastic remark?", "\nIf the first rule of humor is never having to say you're sorry then the \nsecond rule must be never having to explain yourself. Few things are \nworse that a joke explained. In spite of this, and because of requests\nfor me to post my list o' nicknames, I must admit that no such list\nexists. It was simply a plot device, along with me being the keeper\no' the list, to make the obvious play on the last name of Fuller and to\nadvance the idea that such a list should be made.\n\nI assumed that the ol' timers would recognize it for what it is. \nNevertheless, how about a list o' nicknames for alt.atheism posters?\nIf you think of a good one, just post it and see if others like it.\nWe could start with those posters who annoy us the most, like Bobby or\nBill.\n\nJim \"D'oh! I broke the second rule of humor\" Copeland", "\nDid you forget to put in a sarcasm flag?", "\n\nAw, just take a moment to digest it and I'm sure you'll see the humour...", "I suggest another name change:", "[deleted for a very good reason which I'm sure you can guess]\n\n0. Enact a law that bans people without a sense of humor from\n posting allegedly humorous items. If he did this, I think\n his approval rating would go through the roof!\n\n\nThis means we can't quote Ed without his permission. No using these lists\nin your .sigs, folks!\n", "the sub. says it all.", "Again I assume this is not just flame bait by Roger, but actually a\ntruly held opinion. \n\n\nThanks. For speaking for all those who didn't feel it was important\nenough to say something themselves. \n\nI wouldn't say that the letter clearly implies representation of the\nviews of a group that you belong to. It represents a subset (that you\ndon't belong to) of a larger group (which you do, if only because this\nisn't a moderated group).\n\nLook, there are several ways to state an opposing viewpoint. Three\nthat come to mind are as follows:\n\n1) Say it subtly. Result: it may not be clear.\n2) Say it directly yet politely. Result: probably it will spark some \n interesting conversation.\n3) Say it directly and obnoxiously. Result: validity goes right out\n the window.\n\n\nYou realize that anything you say can, and most certainly will, be\nused against you.\n", " >What all you turkey pro-pistol and automatic weapons fanatics don't seem to\n >realize is that the rest of us *laugh* at you. You don't make me angry, you\n >just make me chuckle - I remeber being in Bellingham, Washington and seeing a\n >...\n\nYou consider laughing at others civilized behavior? What was I supposed to\nlearn from your article? Treat people like dogs?", "\nHow can you say that? I presume that you mean that talking about\nrestricting rights is not the same as restricting those rights. Well,\narguing for those restrictions may lead to implementation, much\nthe same way as assault can lead to battery (legal definitions).\n\n\nWell, I can't speak for the homosexuals, but I've seen ALOT\nof polite discussion on t.p.g. Please, everyone, don't take\nthis guy's word, or mine for that matter, on it. Read t.p.g.\nfor a while, and try to determine from which direction most of\nthe flameage originates. If you post without flamebait, you\nwill generally receive reasoned responses. True, there are\nthose who tend to lose their tempers quickly, as there are on\nall newsgroups, but they really do feel their rights are in jeopardy.\n\nOh, and neat trick talking derisively about another newsgroup while\nnot crossposting to allow them to defend themselves.\n\n\nMethinks you doth protest too much.\n\n\t\t\t\tDave Schabel\n\n\n", "You definetly are in need of a shrink, loser!", "I am most embarassed that my irrate, intemperate post is still\ncirculating.\n\nI have been chided by experts for my behavior. I now agree with\nall of them, although some were no more restrained in their\nspeech than I was 8)\n\nI have apologized to Robin Hanson.\n\nLew", "Everbody has been defining envelope.\nWhy was the world \"envelope\" chosen, rather than say \"shell\", \nor \"boundary\". In analogy with the envelopes of airships perhaps?\n\nActually, \"shell\" might be good. Push the shell too hard and\nit (the aircraft?) breaks. ", "[...]\n\nI presume that you meant to say tcsh here ------^^^^^\n\n-- \n\nMichael Salmon\n\n#include\t\n#include\t\n#include\t", "Before more bandwidth gets wasted on this:\n\nI APOLOGIZE for my flame.\n\nFirst, because I distributed the message to so many newsgroups; I did\n not check the crosspostings of the article I followed up on.\n\nSecond, for not making my argument clear enough. I reacted to the tone\n of many of the anti-Kirlian posts, not to their content. Right\n or wrong, I found the arguments set in arrogant and sneering words\n (that includes \"jokes\"), which I still think is unwarranted.\n\nAnd, obviously, I should not have done the same.", "I just wanted to know:", "\nOf course, the list has to agree with the nickname laws laid down by the\nGIPU almost 2000 years ago (you know... the 9 of them that were written on\nthe iron tablets that melted once and had to be reinscribed?). Since I am\na prophet of the GIPU I decree that you should post the whole list of\nnicknames for the frequent posters here!", "\nThank you very much for clarifying your position and source. Apologies \nare accepted in good faith. This absolutely was no attempt to bring you to\nyour knees, It is merely a suggestion to really check and re-sheck your\nsources before throwing a flame into the net.\n\nThanx again", "\n\n\n\n\tCould you speak up? I can't hear you....\n\n\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------", "\n\nWell, I don't recall assuming anything, except perhaps that the columnist \nwho reported the incident was telling the truth i.e. the sarcastic impression\ncame from _him_ (Steve Simmons?). Besides, to my knowledge Alex has a pretty\nfair grasp of the English language...and his recent comment after the Detroit\ngame would indicate that this remark _is_ what I think it to be. Very low.\n", "Okay, okay. I forgot about that. Sheeesh.", "L(> |JB> 1) Ron...what do YOU consider to be \"proper channels\"...\nL(> \nL(> | I'm glad it caught your eye. That's the purpose of this forum to\nL(> | educate those, eager to learn, about the facts of life. That phrase\nL(> | is used to bridle the frenzy of all the would-be respondents, who\nL(> | otherwise would feel being left out as the proper authorities to be\nL(> | consulted on that topic. In short, it means absolutely nothing.\nL(> \nL(> An apt description of the content of just about all Ron Roth's \nL(> posts to date. At least there's entertainment value (though it \nL(> is diminishing).\n\n Well, that's easy for *YOU* to say. All *YOU* have to do is sit \n back, soak it all in, try it out on your patients, and then brag\n to all your colleagues about that incredibly success rate you're\n having all of a sudden...\n\n --Ron--", "\nFinally, someone seems to be making sense in this thread.", "ALL I CAN SAY IS \n\n\n\n\n G O T I G E R S!!!!!!\n\n\n\n", "\n\n\nWhat _is_ your problem? Hite's post wasn't a flame. It was a\ncorrection of *your* error.\n\nYOUR reply was a flame. \n\n\nNot in the least. \n\n", "\n\n\n\nGood comeback, Rog. Your quick wit and intelligence continues to\namaze everyone.\n", "\n\tGee, I feel so ignorant now...\n\n\tResearch, then post.", "Does anyone recieve annoying email from Roger Maynard whenever they post an\narticle telling them to leave him alon and stop posting to the group??\nThese emails are filled with insults- more than are usual in Roger's posts\nand have little if any hockey info.\nI have recieved two in the last 2 days.\nI am just wondering if I am special or Roger trys to bully everyone who\ndisagrees with him.\n\nGregmeister\n\nObligatory hockey comment:", "\nDo you realize how many smiles are crossing faces after you wrote that?\n(-;\n\ngld", "\nExactly. You took the words right out of my mouth, Ron :-)\n\n-- ", "} In article <1993Apr14.175545.3528@alleg.edu>, millits@yankee.org (Sam\n} \n} i'm telling you, sam, three l's. call up mom and ask.\n} \n} bob vesterman.\n} \nyeah, and in case even that isn't enough to prompt boy genius\n\"Sam\" to pick up a paper and see how \"his\" name is spelled,\nhere's another hint: the single \"L\" comes between the two \"I\"s...", "\n\tI did. Regularly. And it was.\n\n\t\t\t\tMichael\n", "\nThat's funny, I thought you were making a statement about what\npeople think. In fact, I see it quoted up there.", "Please excuse my previous posting. It was appended to this thread by \naccident.\n", "\nIt isn't. And I wasn't aware that this O'Hair chick was a reader of\na.a., so that doesn't support your assertion that the argument is\n\"the whole basis of a great many HERE rejecting...\".", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n*********************************************************************\n\nThat's cool; I wish everyone had the smae kind of names; the\nworld would certainly be a better place!!\n", "\n\n\nJust felt it was important to add four letters that Steve left out of\nhis Subject: header.", "\n\nI agree, although I would have no idea how to go about doing it. But\nyou've got my vote.\n\n\n--I'm outta here like Vladimir\n--Alan", "\n[many lines deleted]\n\nAh, here Freeman is being prejudiced (look it up and see what I mean Freeman).\nHere Freeman is pre-judging someone before he knows all of the facts. Guess\nit can happen to the best (and in his case the worst) of us.\n\nFreeman thinks I am behind when actually I am quite on top of things. The\npoint he seems to be missing now is that after a certain point accuracy can be\nvery tedious and ridiculous. See Freeman's next post for an explanation.\n", "...\n...\n\nYeah...I've seen you're grand mother...I bet she could.", "\nHey! Glad to have some serious and constructive contributors in this\nnewsgroup. I agree 100% on the statement above, you might argue with\nBobby for eons, and he still does not get it, so the best thing is\nto spare your mental resources to discuss more interesting issues.\n\nCheers,\nKent", "\nI'll defer to your greater firsthand knowledge in such matters.", "\nPerhaps it's time to start rec.sport.baseball.graffiti, where the kiddies\ncan go yell taunts and insults at each other and leave the rest of us in\npeace. ", "[ some real stupid remarks ]\n ...\n ...\n [ lots of serious dribble for no real reason ]\n ...\n\nHey, I don't really care, but when someone sends me\nemail telling me to fuck off, I get rather pissed. If he posted\nto the net, I could really care less, but sending mail\nis just childish. Mr. Infant(e) is just that, an infant. Give \nhim a few more years to grow up and maybe he'll learn some \nnetwork etiquette.\n\nIf you can't stand the flames,\nand you don't have the brains,\nStay out of the newsgroup.\n\nKind of catchy n'est pas?\n", "\nI remember seeing it several months ago, and it was marked as a joke.\nFunny how things circulate!", "\nAre you in contact with her, is that what she said, or what you THINK\nher reason is?\n\nAlso, could it be possible that she is not replying because she has\nno reply that wouldn't confirm the worst suspicions? If the suspicions\nare way out of pocket, one would think the person would be in there\nsaying so, and indicating WHY they are out of pocket. Hiding behind\na veil of secrecy is not reassuring.\n\n", "\n\n\n\nWell, when you crosspost to talk.origins, what do you expect?\n", "shut up andi!\n", ": \n: > [...] You're not breathing clean air provided by government\n: > regulations, [...]\n: \n: If this doesn't beat all I ever heard! The above certainly says a\n: mouthful about the mindset of Ted Frank, and also of statists\n: everywhere.\n: --\n\nYes, there's certainly no need to argue with him, or address the\nsubstance of what he says- he's a statist, after all. Probably \npolitically correct, too... ", "\n >\tIf the new Kuiper belt object *is* called 'Karla', the next\n >one should be called 'Smiley'.\n\n Unless I'm imaging things, (always a possibility =) 1992 QB1, the Kuiper Belt\n object discovered last year, is known as Smiley.\n\nAs it happens the _second_ one is Karla. The first one was\nSmiley. All subject to the vagaries of the IAU of course,\nbut I think they might let this one slide...\n\n* Steinn Sigurdsson \t\t\tLick Observatory \t *\n* steinly@lick.ucsc.edu\t\t\"standard disclaimer\" \t *\n* \"The worst thing you can say to a true revolutionary is that his \t *\n* revolution is unnecessary, that the problems can be corrected without *\n* radical change. Telling people that paradise can be attained without *\n* revolution is treason of the vilest kind.\" -- H.S. 1993\t\t * \n", "--\n\nHey, c'mon guys (and gals), I chose my words very carefully and even \ntried to get my FAQ's straight. Don't holler BOHICA at me!\n \n----------------------------------------------------------------------", "((fluffy bi fantasy squelched))\n\n\nDear Mr. Elf,", "\nSure sounds like aXe to me.\n\n-- \n\nMichael Salmon\n\n#include\t\n#include\t\n#include\t", "Tony \n\nI appreciate the narrow-mindedness of the view expressed in\nthe text you quoted. I also appreciate your being amused\nby such determined ignorance. Without taking anything away\nfrom your mirth, I want to say that these views sadden me.\nI can only hope that that sort of narrow-mindedness will\ndie with the generations that have promoted it. Teach \nyour children well.\n\n\n\nPax.\n\nJohn\n\n", "\nYOUR sex life, maybe....", "Go back to nursery school jerk.", "\n\tGive me a call when you build a working model. \n\n\tThen we'll talk stock options.\n---\n\nPrivate note to Jennifer Fakult.\n\n \"This post may contain one or more of the following:\n sarcasm, cycnicism, irony, or humor. Please be aware \n of this possibility and do not allow yourself to be \n confused and/or thrown for a loop. If in doubt, assume\n all of the above.", "\nOh, that was just a bet.\n", "Maddi Hausmann chirps:\n\n\n\n\nThat's nice.\n\n\nYou forgot the third equality...whirrr...click...whirrr...see below...\n\n\n\n= Maddi \"The Mad Sound-O-Geek\" Hausmann\n\n...whirrr...click...whirrr\n\n--\nBake Timmons, III", "\n\nI'll drink to that.\n\n\n\n\nNice to see Steve still has his high and almighty intellectual prowess \nin tact.\n\n\n\nYawn...\n\n\n\nExactly my question to you, Steve. What's your point? This person had\none, you didn't\n\n\nNice to see that some things never change, Steve, if you aren't being\nignorant in one group [*.alternative] you're into another. One positive\nthing came out of it, you are no longer bothering the folks in \n*.alternative, it's just a shame that these people have to suffer so\nthat others may breath freely. ", "\n\n\nWell Sherri, I'd agree with you except that most 'kiddies' have more sense than\nto spew their obscenities in front of a group of adults..\n\nI try to edit this newsgroup and feed it to one of the local elementary schools,\nthey have a group of students that just love baseball and are learning to use\ncomputers, but I'm telling you, it's gotten to the point that I don't even edit\nthe files anymore, just read them and throw out the trash... And thanks to all\nyou people that think it's wonderful to include a swear word or two in your\nsignature files, that's really nice... I have to read the whole article and\nthen toss it out because of the .sig. Don't get me wrong, I know all the words you\ndo, (and I've even made up some of my own!) or I wouldn't be able to edit them out ;^)\nbut this just doesn't seem to be the place, a public forum, to spew foul language,\nsorry..\n\nThanks to all you people that keep in mind, there might be some decent, young\npeople, interested in baseball and computers reading this newsgroup.. They enjoy\nyour articles.", " \n(Deletion)\n ", "\nOh, darn.\nOkay, okay, let's stop slamming Ipser, and get on with making fun of other\npeople.", "\ndefinitely a lemur.\n\nElvis couldn't spell, just listen to any of his songs.", "\n\n\nMINOR? You put unsignalled lane change in a MINOR category? Now I know\nwho these guys are...", "\n\nWhat's this? Another idiot from McRCIM.McGill.EDU? Or are these all\nthe same dope using different accounts?\n", "\n\tHeheheheh.. Sorry, Roger, I wronged you.. You're not boring ALL\nthe time.. This one is a classic. 'cordially, as always' HEHEHEHEHHE!\n\n\tAre you a jerk?\n\n\t\tDo people hate you?\n\n\t\t\tAre you no fun at parties?\n\n\tWell! Come to the ROGER MAYNARD SCHOOL OF CORDIALITY!\n\n\tWe can teach you to be 'cordial' with the best of them! Use\nsuch time honored 'cordiality' techniques as:\n\n\t1) Calling people assholes!\n\t2) Comparing them to viruses!\n\n\tFor advanced students:\n\n\t3) Comparing them to DIRTY viruses. What is a DIRTY virus,\n\t\tand how can you tell it from a clean one? We know,\n\t\tand here at the ROGER MAYNARD SCHOOL OF CORDIALITY,\n\t\twe can teach you to know, too!\n\n\tHEHEHEH.. Thanks, Roger.. This made my evening :-)", " \n \n \nAfter insult, Gregg resorts to lies:\n \n ", "\nDefinitely, J.R. \"Bob\" Dobbs, numero uno, top dog, not one can touch, not\none can knock Bob out of the box. Bob kills me mon! Everyday!\n\nBut close El Segundo (el subliminal) is the infamous Paul (birthname Saul) the\nEvangeline who became famous as a result of his numerous trampoline act \ntours of the eastern Mediterranean.", "Ditto. Great post.", "\nI'll see your 3 and raise you 4.", "\n\nNo, Brent that would be\nalt.sex.bondage.holly.silva.goofy.anti.semite.... :)\n", "\n\nAnd you can bet that I wouldn't be the only one not belonging to the\nmoderated group if it was moderated by an anally-retentive little\ndullard like yourself. \n\n\nI hardly need you to presume to lecture me on how to communicate my points\nof view. This \"posting\" that you have made is the second on the subject of\nthe NHL letter and you have yet to communicate your opinion on the matter.\nInstead you content yourself with flaming me.\n\n\nResult:\nMoronic little busy bodies like yourself take advantage of a perceived\nopportunity to post rules for others to live by. \n\n\nWell if using it \"against\" me means you are going to post something of\nsignificance then by all means go ahead. I insist. Otherwise why don't\nyou just go back to sleep or do whatever it is that you do when you are \nall by yourself...\n\n-- ", "\nTrue, except that I've known few fundies who had enough sense to\nbe embarrassed by Josh McDowell.\n\n(Okay, maybe a cheap shot. But I'm in that kind of mood.)", "Boy are you going to look silly in a couple of weeks.\n\n", "\n\tSigh.\n\tI try to make a little joke, I try to inject some humour here\nand what happens? In the immortal words of Foghorn Leghorn:\n\n\t\"I say, that was a _joke_, son.\"\n\n\tI thought that the bit about McElwaine, not to mention the two\nsmileys, would indicate to even the most humour impaired that I was\nJOKING.\n\tSigh.\n\t(And will everyone who pat's suggestion (thanks bunches, pat)\n*please* stop sending me email.)\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------", "\n\nGosh, Jesse is that famous now? He was my intern. Landau not liking\nit makes me like it out of spite. (Just kidding, Bill). \n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | \"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon.\" ", "\nI couldn't have said it better, Mark!", "\n\nYup! Ruins your sex life!\n\nTony\n\n", "\n\nNo, no, no! The previous one was called \"Smiley\". 1992 QB1 = Smiley,\nand 1993 FW = Karla.\n\nNote that neither name is official. It seems the discoverers have an\naversion to the designation scheme.", "\n No, it appears he didn't. Well, I think he's on to something here. I\nmean the post he responded to (not) did pretty much speak for itself.\n", "\nExsqueeze me? I saw *your* original post in alt.discrimination.\nYour post was cross-posted to three groups. My followup was cross-posted\nto two of those three (omitting soc.motss).\n\nNow, instead of engaging in meta-discussion off the topic, could you answer \nthe question posed? If your statement is so \"beign\"(!?), you should have no\ntrouble politely responding to a polite query.", "Could you explain what any of this pertains to? Is this a position\nstatement on something or typing practice? And why are you using my\nname, do you think this relates to anything I've said and if so, what.", "Haven't we wasted enough bandwidth on this silly discussion already!!\n[Please no flames -- let sanity prevail]", "For discussion of Nikolai Tesla (who else??)\n", "Arthur Clarke may have quoted the comment about knowing you're to be\nhanged in the morning concentrating a man's mind wonderfully, but the\nsource of the comment is Samuel Johnson.\n\n(Pardon me if you already knew that.)", "Regards,\nSteve.", " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nI thought it was: \"There are two kinds of people in the world. Those who \nthink there are two kinds of people and those who don't.\"\n\n\nAnd then there's: \"There are three kinds of people in the world. Those who \nlike math and those who don't.\"\n\nObmoto: Michigan weather forecast for Saturday: high in the low 40s, \nchance of snow flurries, showers possible. Enjoy the weather where you \nare. Have a ride on me.\n", "I addressed most of the key issues in this very long (284 lines) post\nby Dean Kaflowitz in two posts yesterday. The first was made into the\ntitle post of a new thread, \"Is Dean Kaflowitz terminally irony-impaired?\"\nand the second, more serious one appeared along the thread\n\n\"A Chaney Post, and a Challenge, reissued and revised\"\n\nboth only in talk.abortion, but I am posting its contents into\ntalk.religion.misc as soon as I exit here.\n\nThis should be enough for us to thrash out for the next week or so. The\nsecond post really grapples with the main bones of contention between us.\nThe first is more lighthearted and tells about such things as \nKaflowitzDebatingPoints [tm], which he continues to rack up on both\ntalk.abortion and talk.religion.misc, while setting follow-ups to \ntalk.abortion alone. His lame excuse for the latter policy is that\nhe gets a prompt as to where to set follow-ups, and does not follow\ntalk.religion.misc much; this suggests that he is being hypocritical in not\nalso setting his Newsgroups line to talk.abortion alone.", "At first this kind of ranting annoyed me, but now it's rather entertaining.\nThese kinds of posts don't require ANY facts, logic, or even sense. It's \nkind of like what 10-year old kids do on the playground. So go on and play.\nNot everyone on the net is as simple minded as you guys seem to be.\n\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\"Nothing is as inevitable as a mistake whose time has Garrett Johnson\n come.\" --Tussman Garrett@Ingres.com\n\"The probability of someone watching you is proportional\nto the stupidity of your action.\" - Unknown", "BULLSHIT ! ! !\n\n\n", ": >: >> Gilligan = Sloth\n: >: >> Skipper = Anger\n: >: >> Thurston Howell III = Greed\n: >: >> Lovey Howell = Gluttony\n: >: >> Ginger = Lust\n: >: >> Professor = Pride\n: >: >> Mary Ann = Envy\n: >\n: >Assorted Monkeys= Secular Humanism\n: \n: Assorted Headhunters - Godless, Heathen Savagery\n: Russian Agent who looks like Gilligan - Godless Communism\n: Japanese Sailor - Godless Barbarism\n: Walter Pigeon - Godless Bird Turd\n: The Mosquitos (Bingo, Bango, Bongo, Irving) - Godless Rock'n'Roll\n: Harold Heckuba (Phil Silvers) - Hollywood Hedonism\n: John McGiver - Butterfly flicking\n: Tonga, the Fake Apeman - Deceit, Lust\n: Eva Grubb - Deceit, lust\n", "\nDennis, I'm astounded. I didn't know you were interested to even\nstudy such filth as alt.sex.stories provide...\n\nCheers,\nKent", "\n Could someone explain where these names come from? I'm sure there's a \n perfectly good reason to name a planetoid \"Smiley,\" but I'm equally sure \n that I don't know what that reason is.\n\nRead John le Carre's \"Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy\", \"The Honorable Schoolboy\"\nor \"Smiley's People\".", "\nThat's what the pseudo-disclaimer is supposed to say, sorry for the confusion.\n\n-nate", "\nLook, asshole, I got him confused with somebody else. I didn't flame\nyou, and I would appreciate it if you extended me the same courtesy.\n\nNo, I don't know everything in the world. Does that surprise you?", "\nAs will I, and the Ultimate Lurker.", "Oh come on, Josh!\n\n", "\n\nHow about, \nFrank Jacksonsuck-Bolick\nor \nFrank \"Cake Icing\" Bolick\nor\nFrank it's not a cow but a Bolick\nor\nFrank How Do you get a ribbon to stay on a birthday present Bolick\nor\nFrank \"Burns\" Bolick\nor\nFrank Lee Bad Player Bolick\nor\nFrank \"I Suck, not\" Bolick\n\nand so on.\n\n\n\n\nMatt Wall * wall@cc.swarthmore.edu * Hey, I gotta job here, OK?", "\n\n\n\n\n\nWell, I thought it must have been a joke, but I don't get the \njoke in the name. Read it aloud? David MACaloon. David MacALLoon.\nDavid macalOON. I don't geddit.", "\nNot this again.\n", "\nIt is nonsense, Danny, if you can refute it with proof. If you are citing your\nexperience then you should have been there in the 1940's (the article is\ncomparing the condition then with that now).\n\nOtherwise, it is you who is trying to change the facts.", "Woof woof!\n", "\n\nYou are absolutely daft. No flame required. You lack a brain.\n\n\n\nWell... at least you're educated, it seems. But give credit\nwhere credit is due: to Richard Dawkin(s?) \n(the meme is a meme he invented)", "\n\nOkay Mr. Dyer, we're properly impressed with your philosophical skills and\nability to insult people. You're a wonderful speaker and an adept politician.\nHowever, I believe that all you were asked to do, was simply provide scientific\nresearch refuting the work of Olney. I don't think the original poster sought\nto start a philisophical debate. she wanted some information. Given a little\neffort one could justify that shooting oneself with a .45 before breakfast is a\nhealthy practice. But we're not particularily interested in what you can\nverbally prove/disprove or rationalize. Where's the research? Where are the\nstudies?\n\nI appoligize if this sounds flamish. I simply would like to see the thread get\nback on track. \n\n\nLone Wolf", "If the new Kuiper belt object *is* called 'Karla', the next\none should be called 'Smiley'.", "TO: menon@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Ravi or Deantha Menon)\n\n\nRO> First off, use some decent terms if ya don't mind. This is sci.med, not\nRO> alt.sex.\n\nWould you like to rephrase that?\n ", "I have been told that I seem to be very smug in my post. I appoligize\nif anyone felt this way. I did not at all desire to come across in\nthat way. I was trying to express that I didn't understand his logic\nand that I wished him the best in his life.", "\n[stuff deleted]\n\n ^^^\n\t\t\t\tI think you mean HCI here.\n\n\n\n[snip]\n\n\n\t\t\t\tJoe", "CAN you read ??\n\tIf so: read my posting about Quisling OR look in a dictionary.\n\tIf not: Don't read this :)\n", "\n\n\nBobby, there's a question here that I just HAVE to ask. If all\nof your posts aren't some sort of extended, elaborate hoax, why\nare you trying so hard to convince the entire civilised world\nthat you're feeble minded? You have a talent for saying the most\nabsurd things. Here's a little sign for you, print it, cut it out\nand put it on top of your computer/terminal.\n\n ENGAGE BRAIN PRIOR TO OPERATING KEYBOARD\n\n\n(Having said all that, I must admit we all get a laugh from\nyour stuff.)\n\n\n\n\n-- ", "\nNah, let's reserve rec.sports.idiots for people who POST\nobvious flamebait, like yourself.\n\nIf someone posts something as controversial (not to mention\nidiotic) as what Austin posted in a widely accessed newsgroup,\nsomeone should challenge the statement. There is a school\nof thought that suggests that silence = consent. Whereas\nthis idea may not apply to everything in life, it certainly\nSHOULD apply to a forum of public discussion, which r.s.b.\nis.\n\nIf you've been reading r.s.b. lately, you'll find\nthat even elementary school children have had access\nto our postings, alibet in an edited form. It's making me\nthink a little more carefully about some of the things I post.\n\nIn conclusion, if someone like Austin wants to post his drivel\nin some obscure newsgroup that I don't read, fine. He's got the\nright to rant, rave, and drool all he wants to in the name\nof free speech. But if he drools in a newsgroup that I read,\nthen I will support the right of anyone to provide rebuttal\nto his drooling.\n\nNow, of course, you don't have to read any of this.\nAnd if you want to cut down on flames, then\n\n\n\n\nDON'T POST FLAMEBAIT!\n(You don't have to respond to flames, either. Saves cyberspace)\n\n", "\nMore like those who use their backs instead of their minds to make\ntheir living who are usually ignorant and intolerant of anything outside\nof their group or level of understanding.\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\"Tuba\" (Irwin) \"I honk therefore I am\" CompuTrac-Richardson,Tx\nirwin@cmptrc.lonestar.org DoD #0826 (R75/6)", "Cathy Smith posting for L. Neil Smith\n\nDear Bill -- \n\nVery, VERY good -- you made my whole day with this post. Thanks\na lot.\n\nL. Neil Smith", "\n\nCould you expand on this? I have a feeling you're right, but I don't quite\nunderstand.", "\n\n\n\nThis statement is just so blatantly disgusting and free of any implicit\nneural activity that I will almost completely ignore it.\n\n\n\n\nSigh. It's so amusing to watch bigots point fingers at what they imagine to\nbe other bigots. I do believe this person meant \"bean *counting*\". And are\nyou trying to suggest that only Hispanics eat beans? Or that they even have\na monopoly on eating beans? Or that this person is seriously promoting what\nis obviously a tongue-in-cheek .sig?\n\nYou must have a brain somewhere, if you can cause your fingers to type. Use\nit.\n\nDrywid", "Hey Serdar:\n Man without a brain, yare such a LOSER!!!", "\n\nAnd you know what? There is no such method inherent in real life\neither. So I would assume you would endorse the notion that we \ncannot state, with any level of objectivity, that Mother Theresa\nhas accomplished more good in this world than Joseph Stalin.\nAfter all, life on earth is a team effort.\n\n\nHave you tried glasses? I find them quite useful. \n\nAfter all, there must be some reason you choose to ignore the mounds\nof evidence we present. It's too bad you feel it necessary to close\nyour mind and eyes to knowledge; you live a poorer life as a result\nof that choice.\n\nHeck, I'd wager that you could predict a WS winner with greater\naccuracy than Jeanne Dixon. And you know why? Because I have\nfull confidence that despite your protestations to the contrary,\nyou are quite capable of using the knowledge we can come up\nwith through statistical methods to boost your knowledge level. \n\n\nHave you tried calling a kettle black?\n\n\nIn other words, in your world, you cannot objectively state that\nJack Morris was more important to the Blue Jays than Al Leiter last\nyear.\n\nIn your world, that may indeed be true. Fortunately, in the world\nthe rest of us occupy, it's not.\n\nI hope you never serve on a jury, Roger. I think the rest of the\njury would have to kill you. \"There's no way I can objectively\njudge the defendant to be innocent or guilty. You see, there are\n2 billion other people on this planet. We have no way of knowing\nwhether the defendant would have committed the crime if it wasn't\nfor all the other people on the planet. We have no way of knowing\nhow the defendant would have acted had he been on a different planet,\nbecause living on this planet is a team effort. And no individual\ncommitts a crime totally isolated from his society; he is a part of\nthat society. That being case, anything I have to say on his\nculpability would be absolute subjectivity, so I refuse to vote.\"", "\n\n\nGrow up, childish propagandist.\n\n\n", "Your \"lite\" posting for the day, from rec.humor.funny:\n\n-- ", "I hope you're not going to flame him. Please give him the same coutesy you'\nve given me.", "Boy that was really humorous. I'm impressed by your incredible senses of wit,\nsarcasm and propriety. Mind if I post jokes about your mother?\n", "\n\nOh, I see, flame someone, tell them that they are immature, tell them\nthey are wrong, and then don't offer any proof for your assertions.\n\nYou really *are* a putz. Put up or shut up.\n\ncpk", "what\ndone.\n\n", "\nOk if you are so right, name a few good examples that were brought up.\n\n\njohn", "of \nthier\n\nEloquently, if somewhat shrilly, put. \n\n\nWell, why not?\n\n\nYou have a way with words. And you sure get shrill on cue.\n\nJim\n--\njmd@handheld.com", "\nHow generous Andi. Thanks for your validation. 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"dtype": "f4" } }, { "hoverinfo": "text", "hovertext": [ "\nIn Massachusetts, you will likely be arrested for murder, but\nif you convince the cops/DA that you used lethal force because\nof threat of death or serious bodily harm, then the charges\nwould probably be dropped. If you run away and are later caught,\nthen you will have a much harder time convincing cops/judge/jury\nof your innocence. Going \"on the lam\" is seen as an indication\nof guilt by a lot of people.\n", "I just heard on CNN that the Texas Rangers found an M60 machine gun\nin the BD compound Rubble. The newscaster called this a new hi-tech\nmilitary weapon! HA HA!! I would bet that it is that Rock Armory\nM60 semi-auto, or that it was leagally owned and the tax was paid.\n\nWhat year was the M60 patented?", "------------- cut here -----------------\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 13\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n Gonorrhea -- Colorado, 1985-1992\n ================================\n SOURCE: MMWR 42(14) DATE: Apr 16, 1993\n\n The number of reported cases of gonorrhea in Colorado increased 19.9% \nfrom 1991 to 1992 after declining steadily during the 1980s. In comparison, in \nthe United States, reported cases of gonorrhea in 1992 continued an overall \ndecreasing trend (1). This report summarizes an analysis of the increase in \ngonorrhea in Colorado in 1992 and characterizes trends in the occurrence of \nthis disease from 1985 through 1992. \n In 1992, 4679 cases of gonorrhea were reported to the Colorado Department \nof Health (CDH) compared with 3901 cases reported in 1991. During 1992, \nreported cases increased 22.7% and 17.5% among females and males, respectively \n(Table 1). Similar increases occurred among blacks, whites, and Hispanics \n(15.6%, 15.1%, and 15.9%, respectively); however, the number of reported cases \nwith race not specified increased 88% from 1991 to 1992 and constituted 9.7% \nof all reported cases in 1992. Although the largest proportional increases by \nage groups occurred among persons aged 35-44 years (80.4%) and greater than or \nequal to 45 years (87.7%), these age groups accounted for only 11.0% of all \nreported cases in 1992. Persons in the 15-19-year age group accounted for the \nlargest number of reported cases of gonorrhea during 1992 and the highest age \ngroup-specific rate (639 per 100,000). \n Reported cases of gonorrhea increased 32.9% in the five-county Denver \nmetropolitan area (1990 population: 1,629,466) but decreased elsewhere in the \nstate (Table 1). Half the cases of gonorrhea in the Denver metropolitan area \noccurred in 8.4% (34) of the census tracts; these represent neighborhoods \nconsidered by sexually transmitted diseases (STDs)/acquired immunodeficiency \nsyndrome (AIDS) field staff to be the focus of gang and drug activity. \n When compared with 1991, the number of gonorrhea cases diagnosed among \nmen in the Denver Metro Health Clinic (DMHC, the primary public STD clinic in \nthe Denver metropolitan area) increased 33% in 1992, and the number of visits \nby males to the clinic increased 2.4%. Concurrently, the number of cases \ndiagnosed among women increased by 1%. Among self-identified heterosexual men, \nthe number of gonorrhea cases diagnosed at DMHC increased 33% and comprised \n94% of all cases diagnosed in males, while the number of cases diagnosed among \nself-identified homosexual men remained low (71 and 74 in 1991 and 1992, \nrespectively). \n Four selected laboratories in the metropolitan Denver area (i.e., HMO, \nuniversity hospital, nonprofit family planning, and commercial) were contacted \nto determine whether gonorrhea culture-positivity rates increased. Gonorrhea \nculture-positivity rates in three of four laboratories contacted increased \n23%-33% from 1991 to 1992, while the rate was virtually unchanged in the \nfourth (i.e., nonprofit family planning). \n From 1985 through 1991, reported cases of gonorrhea among whites and \nHispanics in Colorado decreased; in comparison, reported cases among blacks \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 14\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nincreased since 1988 (Figure 1). During 1988-1992, the population in Colorado \nincreased 9.9% for blacks, 9.8% for Hispanics, and 4.5% for whites. In 1992, \nthe gonorrhea rate for blacks (1935 per 100,000 persons) was 57 times that for \nwhites (34 per 100,000) and 12 times that for Hispanics (156 per 100,000) \n(Table 1). Among black females, reported cases of gonorrhea increased from \n1988 through 1992 in the 15-19-year age group; among black males, cases \nincreased from 1989 through 1992 in both the 15-19-and 20-24-year age groups. \n\nReported by: KA Gershman, MD, JM Finn, NE Spencer, MSPH, STD/AIDS Program; RE \nHoffman, MD, State Epidemiologist, Colorado Dept of Health. JM Douglas, MD, \nDenver Dept of Health and Hospitals. Surveillance and Information Systems Br, \nDiv of Sexually Transmitted Diseases and HIV Prevention, National Center for \nPrevention Svcs, CDC. \n\nEditorial Note: The increase in reported gonorrhea cases in Colorado in 1992 \nmay represent an overall increase in the occurrence of this disease or more \ncomplete reporting stimulated by visitations to laboratories by CDH \nsurveillance staff during 1991-1992. The increases in confirmed gonorrhea \ncases at DMHC and in culture-positivity rates in three of four laboratories \nsuggest a real increase in gonorrhea rather than a reporting artifact. \nHowever, the stable culture-positivity rate in the nonprofit family planning \nlaboratory (which serves a network of clinics statewide) indicates that the \ngonorrhea increase did not uniformly affect all segments of the population. \n One possible explanation for the increased occurrence of gonorrhea in \nColorado may be gang- and drug-related sexual behavior, as implicated in a \nrecent outbreak of drug-resistant gonorrhea and other STDs in Colorado Springs \n(2). Although the high morbidity census tracts in the Denver metropolitan area \ncoincide with areas of gang and drug activity, this hypothesis requires \nfurther assessment. To examine the possible role of drug use -- implicated \npreviously as a factor contributing to the national increase in syphilis (3-6) \n-- the CDH STD/AIDS program is collecting information from all persons in whom \ngonorrhea is diagnosed regarding drug use, exchange of sex for money or drugs, \nand gang affiliation. \n The gonorrhea rate for blacks in Colorado substantially exceeds the \nnational health objective for the year 2000 (1300 per 100,000) (objective \n19.1a) (7). Race is likely a risk marker rather than a risk factor for \ngonorrhea and other STDs. Risk markers may be useful for identifying groups at \ngreatest risk for STDs and for targeting prevention efforts. Moreover, race-\nspecific variation in STD rates may reflect differences in factors such as \nsocioeconomic status, access to medical care, and high-risk behaviors. \n In response to the increased occurrence of gonorrhea in Colorado, \ninterventions initiated by the CDH STD/AIDS program include 1) targeting \npartner notification in the Denver metropolitan area to persons in groups at \nincreased risk (e.g., 15-19-year-old black females and 20-24-year-old black \nmales); 2) implementing a media campaign (e.g., public service radio \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 15\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nannouncements, signs on city buses, newspaper advertisements, and posters in \nschools and clinics) to promote awareness of STD risk and prevention targeted \nprimarily at high-risk groups, and 3) developing teams of peer educators to \nperform educational outreach in high-risk neighborhoods. The educational \ninterventions are being developed and implemented with the assistance of \nmembers of the target groups and with input from a forum of community leaders \nand health-care providers. \n\nReferences\n\n1. CDC. Table II. Cases of selected notifiable diseases, United States, weeks \nending December 26, 1992, and December 28, 1991 (52nd week). MMWR 1993;41:975. \n\n2. CDC. Gang-related outbreak of penicillinase-producing Neisseria gonorrhoeae \nand other sexually transmitted diseases -- Colorado Springs, Colorado, 1989-\n1991. MMWR 1993;42:25-8. \n\n3. CDC. Relationship of syphilis to drug use and prostitution -- Connecticut \nand Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. MMWR 1988;37:755-8, 764. \n\n4. Rolfs RT, Goldberg M, Sharrar RG. Risk factors for syphilis: cocaine use \nand prostitution. Am J Public Health 1990;80:853-7. \n\n5. Andrus JK, Fleming DW, Harger DR, et al. Partner notification: can it \ncontrol epidemic syphilis? Ann Intern Med 1990;112:539-43. \n\n6. Gershman KA, Rolfs RT. Diverging gonorrhea and syphilis trends in the \n1980s: are they real? Am J Public Health 1991;81:1263-7. \n\n7. Public Health Service. Healthy people 2000: national health promotion and \ndisease prevention objectives--full report, with commentary. Washington, DC: \nUS Department of Health and Human Services, Public Health Service, 1991; DHHS \npublication no. (PHS)91-50212. \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 16\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n Effectiveness in Disease and Injury Prevention\n Impact of Adult Safety-Belt Use on Restraint Use Among\n Children less than 11 Years of Age -- Selected States,\n 1988 and 1989\n ======================================================\n SOURCE: MMWR 42(14) DATE: Apr 16, 1993\n\n Motor-vehicle crashes are the leading cause of death among children and \nyoung adults in the United States and account for more than 1 million years of \npotential life lost before age 65 annually (1). Child safety seats and safety \nbelts can substantially reduce this loss (2). From 1977 through 1985, all 50 \nstates passed legislation requiring the use of child safety seats or safety \nbelts for children. Although these laws reduce injuries to young children by \nan estimated 8%-59% (3,4), motor-vehicle crash-related injuries remain a major \ncause of disability and death among U.S. children (1), while the use of \noccupant restraints among children decreases inversely with age (84% usage for \nthose aged 0-4 years; 57%, aged 5-11 years; and 29%, aged 12-18 years) (5). In \naddition, parents who do not use safety belts themselves are less likely to \nuse restraints for their children (6). To characterize the association between \nadult safety-belt use and adult-reported consistent use of occupant restraints \nfor the youngest child aged less than 11 years within a household, CDC \nanalyzed data obtained from the Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System \n(BRFSS) during 1988 and 1989. This report summarizes the findings from this \nstudy. \n Data were available for 20,905 respondents aged greater than or equal to \n18 years in 11 states * that participated in BRFSS -- a population-based, \nrandom-digit-dialed telephone survey -- and administered a standard Injury \nControl and Child Safety Module developed by CDC. Of these respondents, 5499 \n(26%) had a child aged less than 11 years in their household. Each respondent \nwas asked to specify the child's age and the frequency of restraint use for \nthat child. The two categories of child restraint and adult safety-belt use in \nthis analysis were 1) consistent use (i.e., always buckle up) and 2) less than \nconsistent use (i.e., almost always, sometimes, rarely, or never buckle up). \nData were weighted to provide estimates representative of each state. Software \nfor Survey Data Analysis (SUDAAN) (7) was used to calculate point estimates \nand confidence intervals. Statistically significant differences were defined \nby p values of less than 0.05. \n Each of the 11 states had some type of child restraint law. Of these, six \n(Arizona, Kentucky, Maine, Nebraska, Rhode Island, and West Virginia) had no \nlaw requiring adults to use safety belts; four (Idaho, Maryland, Pennsylvania, \nand Washington) had a secondary enforcement mandatory safety-belt law (i.e., a \nvehicle had to be stopped for a traffic violation before a citation for nonuse \nof safety belts could be issued); and one state (New York) had a primary \nenforcement mandatory safety-belt law (i.e., vehicles could be stopped for a \nsafety-belt law violation alone). In nine states, child-passenger protection \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 17\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nlaws included all children aged less than 5 years, but the other two states \nused both age and size of the child as criteria for mandatory restraint use. \nThe analysis in this report subgrouped states into 1) those having a law \nrequiring adult safety-belt use (law states), and 2) those without such a law \n(no-law states). \n Overall, 21% of children aged less than 11 years reportedly were not \nconsistently restrained during automobile travel. Both child restraint use and \nadult restraint use were significantly higher (p less than 0.05, chi-square \ntest) in law states than in no-law states (81.1% versus 74.3% and 58.7% versus \n43.2%, respectively). \n High rates of restraint use for children aged less than or equal to 1 \nyear were reported by both adults indicating consistent and less than \nconsistent safety-belt use (Figure 1). Adults with consistent use reported \nhigh rates of child-occupant restraint use regardless of the child's age \n(range: 95.5% for 1-year-olds to 84.7% for 10-year-olds). In comparison, for \nadults reporting less than consistent safety-belt use, the rate of child-\noccupant restraint use declined sharply by the age of the child (range: 93.1% \nfor 1-year-olds to 28.8% for 10-year-olds). When comparing children of \nconsistent adult safety-belt users with children of less than consistent adult \nsafety-belt users, 95% confidence intervals overlap for the two youngest age \ngroups (i.e., aged less than 1 and 1 year). \n Reported child-occupant restraint use in law states generally exceeded \nthat in no-law states, regardless of age of child (Table 1). In addition, \nhigher adult educational attainment was significantly associated with \nincreased restraint use for children, a factor that has also been associated \nwith increased adult safety-belt use (8). \n\nReported by: National Center for Injury Prevention and Control; National \nCenter for Chronic Disease Prevention and Health Promotion, CDC. \n\nEditorial Note: The findings in this report are consistent with others \nindicating that adults who do not use safety belts themselves are less likely \nto employ occupant restraints for their children (6,9). Because these \nnonbelted adults are at increased risk of crashing and more likely to exhibit \nother risk-taking behaviors, children traveling with them may be at greater \nrisk for motor-vehicle injury (10). \n Educational attainment of adult respondents was inversely associated with \nchild restraint use in this report. Accordingly, occupant-protection programs \nshould be promoted among parents with low educational attainment. Because low \neducational attainment is often associated with low socioeconomic status, such \nprograms should be offered to adults through health-care facilities that serve \nlow-income communities or through federal programs (i.e., Head Start) that are \ndirected at parents with young children. \n Injury-prevention programs emphasize restraining young children. In \naddition, however, efforts must be intensified to protect child occupants as \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 18\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nthey become older. Parents, especially those with low educational attainment, \nthose who do not consistently wear safety belts, and those from states that do \nnot have mandatory safety-belt use laws, should be encouraged to wear safety \nbelts and to protect their children by using approved child safety seats and \nsafety belts. Finally, the increased use of restraints among children may \nincrease their likelihood of using safety belts when they become teenagers -- \nthe age group characterized by the lowest rate of safety-belt use and the \nhighest rate of fatal crashes (5). \n\nReferences\n\n1. CDC. Childhood injuries in the United States. Am J Dis Child 1990;144:627-\n46. \n\n2. Partyka SC. Papers on child restraints: effectiveness and use. Washington, \nDC: US Department of Transportation, National Highway Traffic Safety \nAdministration, 1988; report no. DOT-HS-807-286. \n\n3. Guerin D, MacKinnon D. An assessment of the California child passenger \nrestraint requirement. Am J Public Health 1985;75:142-4. \n\n4. Hall W, Orr B, Suttles D, et al. Progress report on increasing child \nrestraint usage through local education and distribution programs. Chapel \nHill, North Carolina: University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, Highway \nSafety Research Center, 1983. \n\n5. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Occupant protection trends \nin 19 cities. Washington, DC: US Department of Transportation, National \nHighway Traffic Safety Administration, 1991. \n\n6. Wagenaar AC, Molnar LJ, Margolis LH. Characteristics of child safety seat \nusers. Accid Anal Prev 1988;20:311-22. \n\n7. Shah BV, Barnwell BG, Hunt PN, LaVange LM. Software for Survey Data \nAnalysis (SUDAAN) version 5.50 Software documentation. Research Triangle \nPark, North Carolina: Research Triangle Institute, 1991. \n\n8. Lund AK. Voluntary seat belt use among U.S. drivers: geographic, \nsocioeconomic and demographic variation. Accid Anal Prev 1986;18:43-50. \n\n9. Margolis LH, Wagenaar AC, Molnar LJ. Use and misuse of automobile child \nrestraint devices. Am J Dis Child 1992;146:361-6. \n\n10. Hunter WW, Stutts JC, Stewart JR, Rodgman EA. Characteristics of seatbelt \nusers and non-users in a state with a mandatory use law. Health Education \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 19\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nResearch 1990;5:161-73. \n\n* Arizona, Idaho, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Nebraska, New York, Pennsylvania, \nRhode Island, Washington, and West Virginia. \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 20\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n Publication of CDC Surveillance Summaries\n =========================================\n SOURCE: MMWR 42(14) DATE: Apr 16, 1993\n\n Since 1983, CDC has published the CDC Surveillance Summaries under \nseparate cover as part of the MMWR series. Each report published in the CDC \nSurveillance Summaries focuses on public health surveillance; surveillance \nfindings are reported for a broad range of risk factors and health conditions. \n Summaries for each of the reports published in the most recent (March 19, \n1993) issue of the CDC Surveillance Summaries (1) are provided below. All \nsubscribers to MMWR receive the CDC Surveillance Summaries, as well as the \nMMWR Recommendations and Reports, as part of their subscriptions.\n\n SURVEILLANCE FOR AND COMPARISON OF BIRTH DEFECT PREVALENCES\n IN TWO GEOGRAPHIC \n AREAS -- UNITED STATES, 1983-88 \n\n Problem/Condition: CDC and some states have developed surveillance \nsystems to monitor the birth prevalence of major defects. \n Reporting Period Covered: This report covers birth defects surveillance \nin metropolitan Atlanta, Georgia, and selected jurisdictions in California for \nthe years 1983-1988. \n Description of System: The California Birth Defects Monitoring Program \nand the Metropolitan Atlanta Congenital Defects Program are two population-\nbased surveillance systems that employ similar data collection methods. The \nprevalence estimates for 44 diagnostic categories were based on data for 1983-\n1988 for 639,837 births in California and 152,970 births in metropolitan \nAtlanta. The prevalences in the two areas were compared, adjusting for race, \nsex, and maternal age by using Poisson regression. \n Results: Regional differences in the prevalence of aortic stenosis, fetal \nalcohol syndrome, hip dislocation/dysplasia, microcephalus, obstruction of the \nkidney/ureter, and scoliosis/lordosis may be attributable to general \ndiagnostic variability. However, differences in the prevalences of arm/hand \nlimb reduction, encephalocele, spina bifida, or trisomy 21 (Down syndrome) are \nprobably not attributable to differences in ascertainment, because these \ndefects are relatively easy to diagnose. \n Interpretation: Regional differences in prenatal diagnosis and pregnancy \ntermination may affect prevalences of trisomy 21 and spina bifida. However, \nthe reason for differences in arm/hand reduction is unknown, but may be \nrelated to variability in environmental exposure, heterogeneity in the gene \npool, or random variation. \n Actions Taken: Because of the similarities of these data bases, several \ncollaborative studies are being implemented. In particular, the differences in \nthe birth prevalence of spina bifida and Down syndrome will focus attention on \nthe impact of prenatal diagnosis. Authors: Jane Schulman, Ph.D., Nancy \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 21\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nJensvold, M.P.H, Gary M. Shaw, Dr.P.H., California Birth Defects Monitoring \nProgram, March of Dimes Birth Defects Foundation. Larry D. Edmonds, M.S.P.H., \nAnne B. McClearn, Division of Birth Defects and Developmental Disabilities, \nNational Center for Environmental Health, CDC. \n\n INFLUENZA -- UNITED STATES, 1988-89\n\n Problem/Condition: CDC monitors the emergence and spread of new influenza \nvirus variants and the impact of influenza on morbidity and mortality annually \nfrom October through May. \n Reporting Period Covered: This report covers U.S. influenza surveillance \nconducted from October 1988 through May 1989. \n Description of System: Weekly reports from the vital statistics offices \nof 121 cities provided an index of influenza's impact on mortality; 58 WHO \ncollaborating laboratories reported weekly identification of influenza \nviruses; weekly morbidity reports were received both from the state and \nterritorial epidemiologists and from 153 sentinel family practice physicians. \nNonsystematic reports of outbreaks and unusual illnesses were received \nthroughout the year. \n Results: During the 1988-89 influenza season, influenza A(H1N1) and B \nviruses were identified in the United States with essentially equal frequency \noverall, although both regional and temporal patterns of predominance shifted \nover the course of the season. Throughout the season increases in the indices \nof influenza morbidity in regions where influenza A(H1N1) predominated were \nsimilar to increases in regions where influenza B predominated. Only 7% of \nidentified viruses were influenza A(H3N2), but isolations of this subtype \nincreased as the season waned, and it subsequently predominated during the \n1989-90 season. During the 1988-89 season outbreaks in nursing homes were \nreported in association with influenza B and A(H3N2) but not influenza \nA(H1N1). \n Interpretation: The alternating temporal and geographic predominance of \ninfluenza strains A(H1N1) and B during the 1988-89 season emphasizes the \nimportance of continual attention to regional viral strain surveillance, since \namantadine is effective only for treatment and prophylaxis of influenza A. \n Actions Taken: Weekly interim analyses of surveillance data produced \nthroughout the season allow physicians and public health officials to make \ninformed choices regarding appropriate use of amantadine. CDC's annual \nsurveillance allows the observed viral variants to be assessed as candidates \nfor inclusion as components in vaccines used in subsequent influenza seasons. \nAuthors: Louisa E. Chapman, M.D., M.S.P.H., Epidemiology Activity, Office of \nthe Director, Division of Viral and Rickettsial Diseases, National Center for \nInfectious Diseases; Margaret A. Tipple, M.D., Division of Quarantine, \nNational Center for Prevention Services, CDC. Suzanne Gaventa Folger, M.P.H., \nHealth Investigations Branch, Division of Health Studies, Agency for Toxic \nSubstances and Disease Registry. Maurice Harmon, Ph.D., Connaught \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 22\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nLaboratories, Pasteur-Mirieux Company, Swiftwater, Pennsylvania. Alan P. \nKendal, Ph.D., European Regional Office, World Health Organization, \nCopenhagen, Denmark. Nancy J. Cox, Ph.D., Influenza Branch, Division of Viral \nand Rickettsial Diseases, National Center for Infectious Diseases; Lawrence B. \nSchonberger, M.D., M.P.H., Epidemiology Activity, Office of the Director, \nDivision of Viral and Rickettsial Diseases, National Center for Infectious \nDiseases, CDC. \n\nReference\n\n1. CDC. CDC surveillance summaries (March 19). MMWR 1993;42(no. SS-1).\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 23\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n\n\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n Clinical Research News\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n\n Clinical Research News for\n Arizona Physicians\n\n Vol. 4, No. 4, April 1993 Tucson, Arizona\n\nPublished monthly by the Office of Public Affairs at The University of Arizona\n Health Sciences Center. \n Copyright 1993, The University of Arizona\n\n High Tech Assisted Reproductive Technologies\n\nFollowing the birth of the first in vitro fertilization-embryo transfer (IVF-\nET) baby in 1978, a host of assisted reproductive technologies have been \ndeveloped that include IVF-ET, gamete intrafallopian tube transfer (GIFT), \nembryo cryopreservation (freezing) and gamete micromanipulation. Together, \nthese technologies are referred to as the high-tech assisted reproductive \ntechnology (ART) procedures. \n\nOvulation induction, sperm insemination and surgery for tubal disease and/or \npathology still are the mainstays of the therapies available for infertility \nmanagement. However, when these fail, it almost always is appropriate to \nproceed with one of the ART procedures. \n\nTherefore, in addition to a comprehensive basic and general infertility \nservice at The University of Arizona Center for Reproductive Endocrinology and \nInfertility, there is a program of Assisted Reproduction that specializes in \nART procedures. This program serves as a tertiary provider for those patients \nin the state of Arizona whose infertility problems cannot be resolved by the \ntraditional therapies. \n\nThe following article (on back) describes the ART procedures available in our \nCenter, clarifies appropriate applications for each, and considers the \nrealistic expectations for their success. Procedures included are: \n\no in vitro \no fertilization - embryo transfer (IVF-ET), gamete intrafallopian tube \n transfer \no (GIFT), cryopreservation of human embryos and gamete micromanipulation. \nThis article also considers ongoing research in our program that is directed \ntowards improved success of these technologies. \n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 24\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n Future Areas of Research\n\nIn addition to ongoing research that is directed exclusively toward the \nmanagement of infertile couples, we are developing the technology to assist \ncouples who are at risk for producing embryos with a serious hereditary \ndisease. \n\nThis technology involves biopsying the preimplantation human embryo and then \nsubjecting the biopsied cells to genetic analysis using either DNA \namplification or fluorescent in situ hybridization. \n\nThere are recent reports of the successful application of DNA amplification by \nother centers, for example, for diagnosis of the genes for cystic fibrosis and \nhemophilia. We hope to apply and further focus fluorescent in situ \nhybridization technology for probing the X chromosome, the identification of \nwhich will provide a scientific basis for counselling patients who exhibit \nsex-linked disorders. \n\nThe considerable clinical application of such technology lies in the fact that \nit circumvents the need for prenatal diagnosis, in addition to the possibility \nof a subsequent termination of affected fetuses, in order to avoid the birth \nof affected children. \n\n\nCatherine Racowsky, Ph.D.\nAssociate Professor and Director of Research\nDepartment of Obstetrics and Gynecology\nCollege of Medicine \nUniversity of Arizona\nTucson, Arizona\n\n Applications, Success Rates and Advances for the\n Management of Infertility\n\nThe following are the ART procedures available at The University of Arizona \nCenter for Reproductive Endocrinology and Infertility. \n\n In Vitro Fertilization - Embryo Transfer is the core ART procedure of our \nAssisted Reproduction Program. This procedure involves retrieval of \nunfertilized eggs from the ovary, their insemination in vitro in a dish, and \nthe culture of resultant embryos for 1 or 2 days, before they are transferred \nto the patient's uterus. All cultures are maintained in an incubator under \nstrictly controlled atmospheric and temperature conditions. Before being \nprocessed for use in insemination, semen samples are evaluated in our \nandrology laboratory using both subjective light microscopy and computer-\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 25\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nassisted semen analyses. To ensure an adequate number of eggs with which to \nperform IVF-ET, or indeed, GIFT, follicular development is typically \nstimulated, with gonadotropins (perganol, metrodin), gonadotropin releasing \nhormone (GnRH, Factrel, lutrepulse) and/or GnRH analogues (lupron, Depo \nlupron, synarel). Occasionally, however, IVF-ET is accomplished with eggs \nobtained in non-stimulated cycles. While some programs utilize laparoscopic \negg retrieval in the operating room with the patient under general anesthesia, \nwe undertake the less costly approach of ultrasound-guided retrieval in our \nInfertility Unit, with the patient sedated. \n Couples who resort to IVF-ET exhibit such pathologies as tubal \ndeficiencies, ovulatory dysfunction, endometriosis, and/or mild forms of male \nfactor infertility. According to the United States IVF Registry, the overall \nsuccess rate for IVF-ET nationwide has stabilized at about 14 percent per \ncycle. Results from our program, involving 86 patients who have undergone 173 \nIVF-ET cycles, reflect a comparable success rate. \n Nevertheless, the overall incidence of success with this procedure is \ndisconcertingly low and emphasizes the need to address those physiological \nfactors that limit achievement of a higher percentage of pregnancies. Well \nrecognized predictors of outcome include patient age, response to exogenous \novarian stimulation, quality of sperm and number of repeated IVF-ET cycle \nattempts. However, among these, age is the single most significant determinant \nof conception. Therefore, it is critical that such patients are referred to an \nAssisted Reproduction Program at the earliest opportunity following failure of \ntraditional therapies. \n The underlying basis for the negative effect of age on fertility has not \nbeen clearly delineated beyond recognition that: 1) the number of eggs \navailable for retrieval declines markedly with age; 2) fertilization rates \nsignificantly decrease in eggs retrieved from patients who are over 40 years; \nand 3) provided the appropriate hormonal background is present, age is \nunrelated to uterine competency to sustain pregnancy. Ongoing research in our \nCenter, therefore, is investigating physiological changes in the egg that may \nbe impacted by age. We have determined that more than 50 percent of eggs that \nfail to fertilize in vitro are chromosomally abnormal, and that a significant \nproportion of these abnormalities are accountable to patient age. Currently, \nthe only recourse for such patients is to use eggs obtained from a donor. Our \nprogram has initiated recruitment of volunteer egg donors to satisfy the needs \nof a list of recipients interested in this form of therapy. \n\n GIFT - This high-tech ART procedure is performed in the operating room, \nusually with the use of a laparoscope and, in contrast to IVF-ET, involves \nintroducing sperm and freshly retrieved eggs into the lumen of the Fallopian \ntube (an average of 3 eggs/tube). Under these circumstances, fertilization \noccurs in vivo and, if excess eggs are retrieved, the remainder undergo IVF, \nwith subsequent options for embryo transfer in that cycle, or freezing for \ntransfer in a subsequent cycle. This ART procedure is applied to cases in \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 26\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nwhich there is at least one patent Fallopian tube but the couple has such \npathologies as ovulatory dysfunction, endometriosis, male factor infertility \nand/or idiopathic infertility. \n The data reported in the United States IVF Registry for 1985 through 1990 \nindicate that the overall success rate with GIFT is higher than that obtained \nwith the IVF-ET technique (range of clinical pregnancies for GIFT is 24 to 36 \npercent and for IVF-ET 14 to 18 percent). In view of this fact, one might \nexpect more patients to be treated with GIFT than IVF-ET. However, in our \nprogram we have taken into account three basic concerns which, while \nsubstantially reducing the number of GIFT cycles performed, benefit the \npatient. These concerns are: 1) the increased costs associated with performing \na procedure in the operating room; 2) the risks, albeit minimal, of undergoing \ngeneral anesthesia; and 3) the considerable benefits to be accrued from \nobtaining direct information on the quality and fertilizability of the eggs, \nand the developmental competency of resultant embryos. \n The increased success with GIFT undoubtedly reflects the artificial \nenvironment provided by the laboratory in the IVF-ET procedure. Between \nJanuary 1, 1991, and December 31, 1992, we have performed a total of 12 GIFT \ncycles, with an overall success rate of 20 percent. \n Embryo cryopreservation, or freezing, is applied in our program when \nembryos result from residual GIFT eggs or from non-transferred IVF embryos. \nThis procedure not only provides patients with a subsequent opportunity for \nsuccess at much reduced costs, but also circumvents the legal and ethical \nissues relating to disposal of supernumerary embryos. Therefore, as stipulated \nby the American Fertility Society ethical guidelines for ART programs, from \nboth a practical and an ethical standpoint, all Assisted Reproduction programs \nshould have the capability of cryopreserving human embrys. \n Gamete Micromanipulation - This ART procedure, which is still very new, \nis applied to couples who are unaccepting of insemination with donor semen but \nwho have severe male factor infertility (less than 10 million sperm/ml in \ncombination with fewer than 20 perccent motile sperm, and/or less than 10 \npercent sperm with normal morphology). We are currently developing the \nprocedure of sub-zonal insertion (SZI), which entails injecting sperm under \nthe coating around the egg, the barrier normally penetrated by the sperm \nthrough enzymatic digestion. \n Available data from SZI programs world-wide indicate that only 5 to 10 \npercent of SZI cycles result in a pregnancy. This statistic undoubtedly \nrelates to limitations imposed by abnormalities inherent in the sperm. \nTherefore, we are currently focusing on the development of improved techniques \nfor the recognition and selection of sperm chosen for manipulation. Such \nefforts are unquestionably worthwhile in view of the fact that this technology \noffers the only realistic opportunity for severe male factor patients to \nestablish conception. \n\nCatherine Racowsky, Ph.D.\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 27\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nAssociate Professor and Director of Research\nDepartment of Obstetrics and Gynecology\nCollege of Medicine \n--------- end of part 2 ------------\n", ": >NEWSPAPER AD CENSORSHIP\n: >\n: >San Fran. Independent\tSan Fran. Examiner\tSan Jose Mercury News\n: >1201 Evans Ave\t\t110 5th St.\t\t750 Ridder Park Dr.\n: >San Fran., CA 94124\tSan Fran., CA 94103\tSan Jose, CA 95190\n: \nHmmm, the SJ Merc. carries Targemasters West, National Shooting club,\n Reeds sportshop, Sportsmens supply and Big 5 ads. They all sell guns.\nNo they don't have any adds like in Shotgun news. If they won't at least\nrun the current adds I swear I'll cancel my subscription and end to cash\nto the CRPA.", "\n: >: > Last year the US suffered almost 10,000 wrongful or accidental\n: >: > deaths by handguns alone (FBI statistics). In the same year, the UK\n: >: > suffered 35 such deaths (Scotland Yard statistics). The population\n: >: > of the UK is about 1/5 that of the US (10,000 / (35 * 5)). Weighted\n: >: > for population, the US has 57x as many handgun-related deaths as the\n: >: > UK. And, no, the Brits don't make up for this by murdering 57x as\n: >: > many people with baseball bats.\n\n: [snip]\n\n: If you examine the figures, they do. Stabbing is favourite, closely\n: followed by striking, punching, kicking. Many more people are burnt to\n: death in Britain as are shot to death. Take at look and you'll see for\n: yourself. \n\nIt means that very few people are shot to death in Great Britain.", "\n: >: Rate := per capita rate. The UK is more dangerous.\n: >: Though you may be less likely to be killed by a handgun, the average\n: >: individual citizen in the UK is twice as likely to be killed\n: >: by whatever means as the average Swiss. Would you feel any better\n: >: about being killed by means other than a handgun? I wouldn't.\n: \n: >What an absurd argument. Switzerland is one-fifth the size of the\n: >UK with one-eigth as many people therefore at any given point on\n: >Swiss soil you are more likely to be crow bait. More importantly,\n: >you are 4x as likely to be killed by the next stranger approaching\n: >you on a Swiss street than in the UK.\n\n: You are betraying your lack of understanding about RATE versus TOTAL\n: NUMBER. Rates are expressed, often, as #/100,000 population.\n: Therefore, if a place had 10 deaths and a population of 100,000, the\n: rate would be 10/100,000. A place that had 50 deaths and a population\n: of 1,000,000 would hav a rate of 5/100,000. The former has a higher\n: rate, the latter a higher total. You are less likely to die in the\n: latter. Simple enuff?\n\nFor chrissakes, take out your calculator and work out the numbers.\nHere... I've preformatted them for you to make it easier:\n\n\t\t\thandgun homicides/population\n\t\t\t----------------------------\n\tSwitzerland :\t24 / 6,350,000\n\t UK : 8 / 55,670,000\n\n... and then tell me again how Switzerland is safer with a more\nliberal handgun law than the UK is without...by RATE or TOTAL NUMBER.\nYour choice.", "\n\n\tWhen I might possibly be on the receiving end of a violent gesture, \n\tthen *I* get to decide for myself. If someone does not like it, too\n\tbad. I would be doing exactly what YOU or any other living creature\n\twould do in terms of evaluation. What's the big deal?\n\n\n\tSometimes.\n\n\n\tI might.\n\n\n\tNot in my experience. And let us not forget that context is often an\n\timportant factor in evaluating a situation. Seeing disheveled persons\n\ton a hiking trail is not likely to be evaluated equally with meeting\n\ta grimey sort, as described above, on a lonely city street at 3 am.\n\tAnyone that cannot properly discriminate between these two different\n\tsituations is legitimate fodder for the old \"survival of the fittest\" \n\tprinciple.\n\n\n\tSounds like you doubt your own abilities. You sound pretty\n\ttypical in this respect. You also seem to think that you'll\n\tbe safe or safer if others are unarmed. This is dangerous \n\tfantasy.\n\n\n\tThen you are in need of some form of therapy. Not necessarily that\n\tof an analyst, but maybe you should learn about guns. Your fear is\n\tseems to be based in ignorance and false knowledge. You see a person\n\twith a gun and you feel threatened. Why is this so? Have you any\n\tlegitimate basis for this? Any first-hand experience that lends\n\tvalidity to your fears? Or are your fears based on mediated experience,\n\ti.e. the anecdotes of others such as network news? I trust you can\n\tsee the lack of legitimacy in such mediated inputs?\n\n\tAnd why are you afraid of the PEOPLE as mentioned above? Forgive me,\n\tbut you sound afraid to the point of paranoia. Perhaps you should talk\n\tto someone about this. I am not saying this to be rude or fascetious,\n\tbut I think anyone with fear as deep and baseless as yours *seems* to\n\tbe needs some sort of help. Living in fear really sucks, even if it\n\tis only when around people with guns in the back country.\n\n\tTell me: would you be as fearful of a park ranger who was right in \n\tfront of you with their side arm in clear view? Why or why not?", "\nI called the Texas bill tracking people (800/253-9693) again today \nregarding HB 1776 -- Concealed Carry. Well, it was supposed to come\nup for a vote this past Wednesday, but the bill got sent back to\nthe Public Safety Committee. The PSC gave it a favorable rating\nAGAIN, and the bill must now be scheduled for debate by\nthe Calendars Committee AGAIN.\n Daryl Biberdorf N5GJM d-biberdorf@tamu.edu\n + Sola Gratia + Sola Fide + Sola Scriptura\n", "\n\n\nTwo questions:\n\n1) You asserted that both the AR-15 and AK-47 are not suitable for\n \"real hunting\". If you have no problem with hunting, or using\n self loading rifles for hunting, why did you say this? If not\n for deer, then what about other, smaller game?\n\n2) When did I get the nickname \"NRA man\"? Notice I have never referred\n to you as \"Janette\" which you don't seem to like. Do I get any\n super-powers, like Spider Man or Powdered Toast Man?\n\nScott Kennedy Brewer, Patriot, and now NRA-Man, defender of Truth,\n Justice, and the 2nd Amendment.", "}Dillon has published a letter in the Blue Press telling people\n}\"How to Bankrupt HCI\" by requesting information from them.\n}\n}Last time this idea went around in rec.guns, a couple of people\n}said that HCI counts all information requestors as \"members\".\n}\n}Can anyone confirm or deny this?\n}\n}If true, what's the impact of HCI getting a few thousand new\n}members?\n\nLast I heard, HCI had something like 250K members to the NRA's 3 million.\nIf true, and they want to play duelling mandates, well ...", "\n\nYou can't think of any valid reason to own a gun that can't wait?\n\nEither you have a very limited imagination or a strange definition of\nthe word \"valid\".\n\nHere are a few reasons you might want a gun *right now*:\n\nYou're a Korean greengrocer in LA and a riot has just started in a\nnearby neighborhood.\n\nYou've received a death threat.\n\nYour SO has just broken your arm and you fear for your life if you\nstay with him and he's said he'll kill you if you leave him.\n\nA psychopath is breaking into people's houses in your neighborhood and\nrobbing and killing people inside.\n\nA violent mugger is operating on the route you have to take to get to\nyour night job.\n\nThere are lots of dangers you might be in that won't wait for the\nwaiting period for you to purchase a gun.\n", "\nThat reminds me of one of Texas's ads...you hear a guy speaking in\nFrench (like it's a letter home), then the French moves to the \nbackground, and a French-accented voice come to the foreground, talking\nabout how he went walking on the beach, and it felt so much like\nhome that he decided to take his shoes off...and the rest of his\nclothes. It ended with \"please send bail.\" :-)\n\n\nI normally have an unloaded Colt Delta in my glove box with a loaded\nmagazine handy (which is perfectly legal in Oklahoma). For those\ntimes that I'm travelling inter-state, I keep an unloaded \nS&W .44 Magnum revolver in the glove box, with a speed-loader\nin my pocket (which is legal everywhere, under Federal law, Illinois\nState Police be hanged).\n\nAs I've said before, this is stricly for defense; my insurance\nwill pay to replace my car, but I only have one life...\n\n\t\t\t\tJames", "\n\n\n\n\nOf course. The term must be rigidly defined in any bill.\n\n\nI doubt she uses this term for that. You are using a quote allegedly\nfrom her, can you back it up?\n\n\n\n\nI read the article as presenting first an argument about weapons of mass\ndestruction (as commonly understood) and then switching to other topics.\nThe first point evidently was to show that not all weapons should be\nallowed, and then the later analysis was, given this understanding, to\nconsider another class.\n\n\n\n", "\nI first read and consulted rec.guns in the summer of 1991. I\njust purchased my first firearm in early March of this year.", "} A note on the lighter side, I've noticed most gun-banners (some of my\n} friends included) are the one who make comments that indicate they are \n} more likely to resort to violent. So are they really banning guns so they \n} wouldn't end up shooting someone else?\n\nCould be.\n\nIt is also likely that since they feel they are more likely to resort to\nviolence, they have a hard time believing that anyone else would react\notherwise.", "\nOf course, if you're a criminal, or hang around with criminals, or\nflash large wads of cash in the wilder parts of town, or utter verbal\nbigotry in the right public places, your chances of being shot are much\nhigher.\n\nAvoiding these behaviors, on the other hand, decreases your chances of\nbeing shot.\n\nSomething like 60% of all murders are criminals killing criminals. \nOver 90% of murders are committed by people with a prior *known*\nhistory of violence.\n\nSimplistic moral, suitable for my three year old, and most inane\nposters: \"Bad people do bad things - repeatedly.\"\n", "\nThat's open for debate. Certainly, an excessive number of people are\nmurdered every year but people also do save innocent lives with firearms.\nThe media just don't tell us when it happens...\n\n\nI think there are more of us than there are federal marshalls...\n\n\nCrap. It's simplistic thinking on the part of feather-headed dolts.\n\n\nNuts.", "Anyone who worries about his own gun should not have one. If you carry\nany pistol with a empty chamber and safety the chances of it going off\nare about zero. Unless you sit it on top of a lite stove for a couple\nof minutes or put it in a fire. :-) \n", "\nNot so. Surveys have shown while the public thinks certain types\nof gun control may be acceptable they do believe they have an\nindividual right to keep and bear arms, and that the police should\nnot have /discretion/ over who may and may not own firearms.\n\n\nBy the end of the Clinton administration a lot of things will be\nscrewed up. Hell, we'll probably be just like England.\n\n\n\"Tough titty\" ? My how eloquent you are.\n\nAs for your claim, I think Clinton has a big fight ahead of him if\nhe thinks he's going to pass some comprehensive gun legislation.\nHe will sign the Brady Bill if it gets to his desk. We will do\nwhatever we can to either keep that from happening, or modify it\nsuch that it is acceptable to us.\n\n\nSorry, that's not possible. And that's why we won't give them up\neither. Legally or illegally, American's will keep their firearms.\nThe number of unregistered weapons in New York City is in the millions.\nThere aren't even close to that number of violent criminals there.\n\n\nIf the gov't was serious about stopping violent crime they would\nkeep violent criminals in jail for a long long time where they\nbelong instead of letting them out on early release.\n\n\nHey, we can go into politics too if we feel like it.\n\n\nI don't believe this one bit.\n\n\nSnore. Like I take advice on the RKBA from a Brit. No way.\n\n\nYou watch too much \"Star Trek\". Actually, this is an understandable\nattitude from a Brit; you are a subject of the state.\n\n\nNot necessarily. There are ways of resisting oppression without\ngetting caught by the gov't.\n\n\nThe \"abstract criminal\" like the ones who killed a relative of mine\nwhile she was working in a carry-out.\n\n\nWhile undesirable, they are sometimes unavoidable. If you don't want\nto resist a criminal attack by all means do nothing. I will (a) take\nmy chances resisting violent attack, and (b) stand a better chance of\nbeing unharmed than someone who does nothing.\n\n\nWhat a joke. Criminals want a disarmed population. How can you keep\ncriminals from preying on us after our best means of self defense is\ntaken away ?", "\nHaving lived, played, and worked on and near the Navajo reservation\nfor a number of years, I can confirm this is an ancient pattern,\nfound in petroglyphs dated 800 to 1200 years old.\n\nAlso, the Indians never stopped making rugs with this pattern - they\njust stopped selling them after the Nazi's pre-empted the swastika.\n\nNote also that the Indian versions use both clockwise and\ncounter-clockwise swastikas.\n\nOb guns: It's the rare Navaho family that doesn't own a rifle. \nThey remember being \"relocated\" by the US Army, and don't intend to\ndo it again. The Hopi, on the other hand, have a dislike for\nweapons, from my experience. Perhaps they just hide them better\nfrom strangers.\n", "\n\n\n500,000 to 1,000,000 self-defense incidents a YEAR doesn't count with you?\n\n\nMaybe they're just UNLUCKY. If a rapist pulls a woman into an alley\nin Boston, chances are almost certain that she won't be counted \nas one of those self-defenders because our local constabulary didn't\nconsider it important that she be allowed to arm herself. Even though\nthe shotgun she owns at home makes her show up in the \"gun owner\" column.\n\n\nIronic words for somebody who lives in Florida. The \"average threat\nlevel\" in Florida has been REDUCED by a liberal CCW policy. It's well\nknown that your local thugs like to target tourists precisely because \nthey are less likely to be carrying than your natives. Come on up to\nBoston, or NYC, or Washington DC, and see how much diddlysquat the \n\"average threat level in the country\" means to a resident there.\n\n\nSometimes this works. Sometimes it just lands your good neighbors \non the dance card for the next wave of drive-bys. Someone here once\ntold a story about LA gangs moving into Phoenix. I've misplaced the\noriginal text, but the story started with one resident calling the \ncops on a gang member. Sure enough, a few nights later, there was a \ndrive-by performed at the resident's house. Except that this time,\nunlike in LA, the entire street came out and returned fire, putting\nan end to the car's occupants. The gang packed up and left.\n\nOf course, in LA, or in a place like Florida after the hurricane,\nyour first problem is to FIND an officer to step up to and tell\nanything.\n\n\nLook, nobody is arguing this. I have a fire extinguisher at home. \nThat doesn't mean I can be careless about tossing my burnt matches \non the carpet. I live carefully, monitor the woodstove, get my flue\ncleaned twice a year, and test my smoke alarms annually. But if --\nDESPITE all this -- a fire does start, it's too late for any of\nthese things EXCEPT the extinguisher.\n\n\nYou seem to be agreeing with your opponent. You can't trust your\ngovernment to protect you from abusers and violators -- white-collar,\nblue-collar, epauletted, or tank-shirted. Ultimately, no one has the\npower to enforce your \"rights\" but you. Unless you've given up that \npower.\n\n\nToo many people fit that category, that is true. Some of us like to\nbelieve that they are uninterested in the facts behind the case for gun \nownership because they've been conditioned to believe that there AREN'T \nany. You seem content to underestimate the electorate; I'm willing to\ntry to raise their consciousness.\n\n\nI think we can.\n\nHCI was founded in what, 1980? In the mid-80's, they ran a \"One \nMillion Strong!\" campaign for two years before reaching this goal. \nMy understanding is that they \"reached\" it by the stratagem of including\nwide classes of people other than dues-paying members. (I can't speak\nauthoritatively on this -- maybe somebody else has details.) Then they\nstarted running a \"Two Million Strong!\" campaign for a while -- but they\nlet it slip into unannounced obscurity when it became clear that they\nsimply were never going to reach that level of membership.\n\nIn 1964, just after the commencement of the Dodd Hearings -- the starting\npoint of the modern gun-control movement, the NRA had a mere 625,000 members. \nBy 1968, barely after the first murmurs of future registration, it had \nabout a million. Today, it has over three million members, making it the\nthird largest membership organization in the country (next to AARP and AAA).\nAnd its membership is GROWING FASTER than at any previous time. (Historical\nfigures from Kukla's \"Gun Control,\" pp. 61 and 420.)\n\nAs you say, many of the people in the middle of this debate are bemused\nby their T-bones and MTV. That leaves hard-core gun-owners against \nhard-core gun banners.\n\nI know a number of ex-HCI members who have recently become NRA members.\nI've never heard of a single one who has gone the other way.\n\nYes, I think we can and will win this one.\n\n\nI think they would be used far less to hammer nails, as well, but,\nlike you, I can't give any citation showing that this utilization is\nCURRENTLY significant at more than an anecdotal level. If you can, \nI'm waiting.\n-- ", "The Libertarian Second Amendment Caucus in Fort Collins, Colorado,\nsubmitted this as a questionnaire to the city council candidates\nin the upcoming election. As expected, very few of the candidates\n(3 of 13) responded, but they know we're watching.\n\nFeel free to use any and all of these questions that strike your \nfancy or use them as inspiration for your own.\n\n *****\n \n 1. Would you be willing to state, in writing, that if you are\n publicly demonstrated to have violated your oath of office\n you would resign and never run for office again?\n \n 2. Under what circumstances do the rights of the group come\n before the rights of the individual?\n \n 3. Would you support a city charter amendment prohibiting the\n city government, its officials, agents, and employees from\n initiating force against any human being for any reason?\n \n 4. Please put the following list in order of precedence (from\n lowest to highest): a) city ordinance, b) city resolution, \n c) state law, d) federal statute, e) U.S. Constitution, \n f) state constitution.\n \n 5. Do you believe that it's appropriate for any city official or\n employee to be paid more than his or her average private\n sector constituent?\n \n 6. Do you believe that involuntary contributions are a legitimate\n means of funding council programs?\n \n 7. Would you support a program recognizing the right of\n taxpayers to \"earmark\" their taxes (either as \"must be used\"\n or \"must not be used\") for specific programs?\n \n 8. In the event that the candidate \"None of the Above\" were to\n win a city election, which option do you believe most\n appropriate? a) The candidate with the next highest vote total\n fills the office. b) A special election is held to fill the \n office, with none of the previous candidates eligible to run \n again. c) Let the office remain unfilled and unfunded until \n the next election. d) Abolish the office.\n \nPlease return your questionnaire to: [address of your choice]\n\nA signature and date line were added here.\n \nThank you for taking the time to fill out this questionnaire.\n\n ******\n\nThe questionnaires were sent with self-addressed, stamped envelopes.\n\nP.S. One person _did_ get a perfect score on the questionnaire, and,\nno, he didn't help write it.\n\nCathy Smith", "\n\n\nWhat makes you say that the guns were illegal?? I understand that the BD's\nhad a valid Class III Federal Firearms Permit, which would allow them to\nhave pretty much anything short of a howitzer legally.", "\n\nPlease cite your evidence that he was intending to use it.\n\n\nWhy not?\n\n\nCheck the sig.\n\n\nSociety does not have rights only individuals have rights.\n\n\nOK, your a commie.\n\n\nYou think you have a right to rape anyone? No wonder you don't care about\nthe rightws of others.\n\n\nPlease indicate which law you feel Koresh broke, and when was he convicted of\nsaid crime.\n\n\nSo you feel that owning guns makes him a threat to society. When are y ou\ngoing to start going after knives and baseball bats as well.\nOr do you feel that someone who spouts unpopular ideas is by definition a\nthreat to society.\n\n\nIt is simple if you think that there job is to assualt civilians.\n\n\n\nIn other words you don't support any of them.", "\n\nFirearm? Let's not even consider long knives (swords), which were also\ncommon militia weapons in the 18th century, and which, if anything, are\noften restricted more heavily than firearms. Whatever sense gun control\nmakes, knife control makes even less.\n-- ", "\n\nSo? Kratz was there - does that mean that he's a gang member?\n\nEven in the most gang-infested areas, most of the residents ARE NOT\ngang-members.\n\n\nHow was it obvious? Were they not trying to hit the target? Or, does\nKratz confuse \"marksmanship\" with \"trying to simulate a post\"? If so,\nthat excludes self-defense shooting, but the rest of us understand\nthat that exclusion would be an error. (It excludes a lot of legit\n\"gun games\" as well.)\n\n\nSounds like practical pistol or maybe IPSC. It also sounds like how a\nself-defense shooter might well practice. The only things that action\nexcludes are hunting and \"like a post\" shooting. Kratz should get out\nmore often.\n\n-andy", "\n\nIf in said situation. I would, reviewing other cases I've seen reported\non in the articles I've read etc.., suggest the safest legal course of action\nis as follows. Warn your assailant loudly and in clear tones that you have a \nweapon(Yes!Even though it's blatantly obvious now that you have it out!)\nand that you will shoot him if he advances/does not cease whatever hostile \naction he is currently involved in.( ie: Drop the knife or I'll shoot!)\nRepeat this process three times,if you can!(not if he's pointing a freaking\ngun at you himself!That's kinda impractical.) (There are variables here and\nI will try to address them in turn) After said warning (considering it's\n ignored) Aim center mass and fire until he drops! This is not sadism, it's\npracticality.If he hasn't gone down he's still a threat!(Why I support .45)\nIF HE TURNS AND RUNS DO NOT PURSUE OR FIRE AT HIS BACK! SHOT'S FIRED IN ANGER\nWILL BURN YOU LATER! (Though in some cases the I can see where that might not\nbother me all that much!) If you do drop him! REMAIN WHERE YOU ARE! Have a\nBystander or witness(Or Create one by yelling at the top of your lungs!)\ncall the police, and wait! Reholster your weapon VISIBLY! Or place it on \nthe ground nearby. Do not attempt to recollect your brass.The police will\nuse it's location to piece together the scene along with your testimony and\nthat of any witnesses. Mentally mark witnesses! If the police say that none\ncame forward let them know who you saw! Attempt to keep your weapon loaded\nwith the minimum required(how the hell can I phrase this?) Try to avoid special\npurpose ammunition. Hollow points and Hydrashock rounds give the opposing\nlawyer the type of loaded phrasing he will need to sawy the jury that you\nfully intended to kill someone! The only special purpose rounds that I can\nthink of that would actually help your case (as it has in several) is the\nGlaser Safety Slug (oh what a lovely name SAFETY SLUG) The stated purpose\nand stated design parameters of the round are life savers in court.\n(ie. Attempting to create a bullet which will not overpenetrate, not \nricochette, and which is designed to STOP (Not Kill (Gee, to bad the two often\ncross, damn I'm real sorry that rapist is dead! NOT!) an assailant with\none shot. This, again, can be a real life saver in a hostile court.\nBe as cooperative with the police as possible! Show them where you were.\nRepeat your information as often as requested. They will often ask you the\nsame questions over and over to verify facts, and ,unfortunately, to see\nif your lying. Fill out all statements and show all required identification\nand weapon permits (BOOO! Down with registered citizens!Register your\n politicians as deadly tax weapons needing to be confiscated!) If they are\nrequired in your state. Contact a lawyer immediately if they decide to\nhold you or that further questioning is needed. If you cannot afford one,\ncontact the NRA. They have a legal assistance fund.(Or at least they used to)\nI DO HOPE YOUR A MEMBER! (Not my business either way though..) If I was\nvague on anything, or I left some questions unanswered, you can E-MAIL\nme or post here. (Preferebly E-MAIL. I don't have a load of time to review\nthe news)\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tKane", "for those who live near or plan to vacation in New Hampshire\nand Maine, I am posting the basic info of how to\napply for a LTC (CCW) in those states for non-residents.", "Dennis Deconcini, 1982\n \n...In these and similar areas, the\nBureau has violated not only the dictates of common sense, but of 5\nU.S.C. Sec 552, which was intended to prevent \"secret lawmaking\" by\nadministrative bodies.\n These practices, amply documented in hearings before this Sub-\ncommittee, leave little doubt that the Bureau has disregarded\nrights guaranteed by the constitution and laws of the United\nStates.\n It has trampled upon the second amendment by chilling exercise\nof the right to keep and bear arms by law-abiding citizens.\n It has offended the fourth amendment by unreasonably search-\ning and seizing private property.\n It has ignored the Fifth Amendment by taking private property\nwithout just compensation and by entrapping honest citizens with-\nout regard for their right to due process of law.\n The rebuttal presented to the Subcommittee by the Bureau was\nutterly unconvincing. Richard Davis, speaking on behalf of the\nTreasury Department, asserted vaguely that the Bureau's priorities\nwere aimed at prosecuting willful violators, particularly felons ille-\ngally in possession, and at confiscating only guns actually likely to\nbe used in crime. He also asserted that the Bureau has recently\nmade great strides toward achieving these priorities. No documen-\ntation was offered for either of these assertions. In hearings before\nBATF's Appropriations Subcommittee, however, expert evidence\nwas submitted establishing that approximately 75 percent of BATF\ngun prosecutions were aimed at ordinary citizens who had neither\ncriminal intent nor knowledge, but were enticed by agents into\nunknowning technical violations.\n \n( Exerpt from: 97th Congress; 2d Session COMMITTEE PRINT\n T H E R I G H T T O K E E P A N D B E A R A R M S\n REPORT\n of the\n SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE CONSTITUTION\n of the\n COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY\n UNITED STATES SENATE\n NINETY-SEVENTH CONGRESS\n SECOND SESSION\n FEBRUARY, 1982\n Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary\n U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE\n88-618 O\n WASHINGTON : 1982\n \n \nLetter to Constituent: April 1993\n \n \nThank you for contacting me regarding the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,\nand Firearms (ATF), which is the Federal law enforcement agency with\njurisdiction over firearms violations and regulations.\n \nIt has been my experience as chairman of the Appropriations\nSubcommittee on Treasury, Postal Service and General Government which\nfunds ATF, that ATF is one of the most competent and highly\nprofessional law enforcement agencies in the Federal government.\nThe agents of ATF have proven their value again and again in\nsuccessful, legal operations to curb the unlawful possession and use\nof firearms, especially in the area of drug-related crimes. It\nenforces the Armed Career Criminal Act which calls for mandatory\nminimum sentences for repeat felons using firearms to carry out an\nillegal activity. The Bureau has made itself a key component in\npreventing gang related violence, also, both by educating at-risk\nyouth to the dangers of gang membership as well a s by depriving known\ngangs from access to weapons.\n \nThe Waco, Texas case involved the execution of search warrants by ATF\non the Branch Davidians for illegal firearms and explosives possession\n(automatics, semi-automatics, and machine-guns, in addition to bombs\nand other explosives.) In virtually every gun case, ATF is asked to\ntrace weapons through its' National Firearms Tracing Center, where\nthey keep all dealer and Federal firearms license information. ATF\nis the Federal governments' firearms expert and routinely works with\nstate and local police to execute warrants. ATF, working with state\nand local law enforcement in Texas and the U.S. Attorneys' office\nfelt it was necessary to execute these warrants in order to legally\nestablish that a crime had been committed and conclude a long and\nthorough investigation of illegal gun and explosives held by members\nof the Branch Davidians. In addition, ATF carefully selected a\nSunday morning, knowing from their source, inside, that the men would\nbe separated from the women and children and not in the area where\nit was known that the illegal weapons were stored.\n \nAs you may be aware by now, Vernon Howell a.k.a. David Koresh\nspiritual leader of the Branch Davidians was tipped of the impending\nexecution of the search warrants. Unfortunately, ATF lost the\nelement of surprise and the cult was able to arm themselves and\nprepare for ATFs' entry into the compound. Once a hostage situation\npresented itself, the ATF asked the FBI to become involved since the\nFBI is skilled in hostage negotiations. In addition, and military\ntanks were brought in due to the serious nature of the situation and\nfirepower of the Branch Davidians.\n \nBased on what I have learned about ATF's role in the Branch Davidian\nraid, I believe the agency acted responsibly. I am, however, deeply\nsaddened by the loss of lives of the 4 law enforcement agents who\nattempted to enter the compound and the civilian members of the\ncult. I fully expect the Department of Treasury to conduct a\nthorough evaluation with representatives from law enforcement outside\nthe Department to be headed by the Assistant Secretary for\nEnforcement. In addition, ATF will conduct its' own review of the\nWaco operation. I look forward to reviewing the findings of the\nevaluators and hope this situation in Waco will be brought to a quick\nand peaceful conclusion.\n \nSincerely,\n \nDennis DeConcini\nChairman\nSubcommittee on Treasury,\nPostal Service and\nGeneral Government\n \nApril 7, 1993\n ", "/ iftccu:talk.politics.guns / hays@ssd.intel.com (Kirk Hays) /\n 3:31 pm Apr 13, 1993 / \n\n >Some of the pro-gun posters in this group own no guns. The dread\n >\"Terminator\", aka \"The Rifleman\", owned no firearms for several\n >years while posting in this group, as an example. There are\n >others.\n\nFor what it is worth, I own no firearms of any sort. As long-time\nreaders of this group know, I am dedicated to the RKBA.\n\nThis is not about toys. It is about freedom.", "\n\nAh, but when you fire at armed folks they have this nasty habit of\nfiring back. A simple terrorist could get hurt that way.", "\n\n What crap, Phil. 50mm? Wrong. To give you a clue as to how big 50mm is, the\n F-16 fighter aircraft have 20mm gattling guns used to shoot down other \n aircraft. A 50mm gun would be somewhere in the `cannon' realm. They might\n have had .50 calibre but definitely not 50mm. \n\n\n\n<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>\n\n Paul R. Busta\t Busta@kozmic.enet.dec.com\n Salem,N.H. \n 603-894-3962\n", ": >> \n: >I'm not going to argue the issue of carrying weapons, but I would ask you if \n: >you would have thought seriously about shooting a kid for setting off your\n: >alarm? I can think of worse things in the world. Glad you got out of there\n: >before they did anything to give you a reason to fire your gun.\n: \nI think people have a right to kill to defend their property. Why not? Be\nhonest: do you really care more about scum than about your car?\n", "/ iftccu:talk.politics.guns / steiner@jupiter.ca.boeing.com / 12:07 am Apr 15, 1993 /\n\nAlso, you need to consider our legal system. Since any of these things\nCAN be lethal, you are going to have a hard time explaining why you applied \nlethal force when you DIDN'T think it was necessary. (If you thought lethal\nforce was necessary, you wouldn't be using rubber bullets, would you?) Ouch. \nIf you are justified in shooting them at all, you are justified in using \nthe best self defense ammunition you can get your hands on. It might actually\nIMPROVE the legal outcome.\n\nThis is why hollow points hold up in court. They are safer for you, safer\nfor innocent by standers, (don't as a rule go through the perp) and actually\nsafer for the perp. If you are using military hard ball, you may have to \nshoot him 'MANY' times, where one or two hollow points might stop him and \ndo the job. As a rule, the fewer wound channels, the better the chance \nfor his surviving the incident.", "\n\nSo, you have the right unless the Federal Government says you don't.\nI don't think I like this very much.\n\nThis would be much better if it said \"everyone except those who have\nbeen striped of this right by due process of law\" or some such thing.\n\nAlso, I don't care for the Federal Government stepping on states rights\nregardless of which state right is being stepped on. If the constitution\ndoesn't give the Feds some power then they have to just shut up about\nit.\n\nThe only way the Feds should have anything to say is if the Constitution\nprohibits localities from infringing on the RKBA. In which case this\nbill should just reiterate that the RKBA is guaranteed by the Constitution\nand that the Feds will take appropriate action if it is infringed.\n\n", "Gun clubs:\nIf you are a member you CAN borrow weapons....(Suprised??)\nYou are supposed to train with a .22 for the 6 months, THEN\nyou can start with anything bigger.\n\nDrivers licence:\nForgot that USA is THE land of cars.....\nGetting one in Scandinavia (and northern europe) is not easy.\nAverage time is about 20 hours of training, and the cost is rather......\nBut we think this is acceptable because a car is NOT a toy, and\nbad drivers tend to hurt OTHERS.\n(If you are really bad, you WON'T get a lincence!)\n\nAbuse by the goverment:\nThis seems to be one of the main problems; Any harder gun-control\nwould just be abused by the goverment.(!)\nEither some of you are a little paranoid (no offence...) OR you should\nget a new goverment. (You do have elections??)\n\nGuns 'n Criminals:\nMOST weapons used by criminals today are stolen.\nKnown criminals can NOT buy weapons, that's one of the points of gun control.\nAnd because gun control are strict in WHOLE scandinavia (and most of europe),\nwe dont have any PROBLEM with smuggled guns.\n\nMixing weapons and things that can be use as one:\nWhat I meant was that cars CAN kill, but they are not GUNS!\nSomeone said that if we 'ban' guns we'd have to ban cars to, because they 'kill' to...\nI don't think we should argue on this one..... ;)\n\nThe issue (I hope..):\nI think we all agree that the criminals are the main problem.\nGuns are not a problem, but the way they are used is.... (and what are they for??)\n\nI think this discusion is interesting when you think of (ex)Jugoslavia:\nThey should all have weapons, it's their rigth to have them, and if they use them\nto kill other (Innocent) people the problem is humans, not guns.\n\nIf 50% of ALL murders was done with axes, would you impose some regulations on them\nor just say that they are ment to be used at trees, and that the axe is not a problem,\nit's the 'axer' ??\n(An example, don't flame me just because not exactly 50% are killed by guns...)\n\nThink about the situation in Los Angeles where people are buying guns to protect\nthemselves. Is this a good situation ?? Is it the rigth way to deal with the problem ??\n\nIf everybody buys guns to protect themselves from criminals (and their neighbor who have\nguns) what do you think will happen ?? (I mean if everybody had a gun in USA)\n\nDon't flame the Englishmen because of Northern Irland, they have gun control that works\n(in England) and fonds from USA are one of the reasons why IRA can bomb innocents...\n(Something about throwing stones in glass houses...)\nDon't flame them because of what to (three?) children did either.\n(Can an Jugoslav have an oppinion on guns or even peace??) (YES!)\n\n(My numbers about crime rates after restrictions on shot-guns are from the police\nand the Statistisk Sentralbyraa) (understood that one Sorenson??)\n\nLAST WORD:\nResponsible gun owners are not a problem, but they will be affected if you want to protect \nyour citicens.\n\n\n\n\tThis is not a .signature.\n\tIt's merely a computergenerated text to waste bandwith\n\tand to bring down the evil Internet.\n", "}>Look, if you can figure out a reliable means of keeping guns away from\n}>bad people, while not interfering with good people, I think we'd all be\n}>for it. The problem is, the methods we're using now don't do the trick.\n}\n}Don't manufacture them. Don't sell them. Don't import them.\n\nJapan did this. It required near-total isolation from the rest of the world\nfor 2 centuries.\n\n}Some guns will get through, but far fewer, and far less people will\n}die because of them. Hunting weapons could be allowed, of course, as\n}long as they are big, and bulky, and require reloading after a few\n}shots (how many times can you shoot at the same animal, anyways One\n}assumes they are moving!)\n\nHunting weapons are great for extortionist sharpshooters. \"Send me money or\nelse I'll pick you off from 2 miles away.\"\n\nTim Starr - Renaissance Now!\n\nAssistant Editor: Freedom Network News, the newsletter of ISIL,\nThe International Society for Individual Liberty,\n1800 Market St., San Francisco, CA 94102\n(415) 864-0952; FAX: (415) 864-7506; 71034.2711@compuserve.com", "\nNational Rifle Association\n1600 Rhode Island Ave. NW\nWashington, DC 20036-3268\n1-800-368-5714 (membership)\n", "\nI agree. Sad, but true.\n\n\nPlease name one.\n\n\n.... Upon which our Bill of Rights is based. Some delusion.\n\n\nIf this were not true in practice, then certain unethical politicians would\nnot be passing gun control laws. Politicians are generally whores to public\nopinion. This does NOT mean the the public is either well informed or correct.\nAs for the stats, anyone can support anything with the right stats. The \n\"right\" stats, from what I've seen, are sometimes even used to support\nconflicting sides of the same issue.\n\n\n\nUsed to own firearms? While armed insurrection, as the FF's of the Const. \nmay have envisioned seems to me a somewhat fanatical approach to avoiding this,\nPolitical protest is still an option at this point. I agree that it's \nargueably not enough and/or too late. If all else fails, there's always\nPVC pipe and cosmoline.\n\n--\n\nChris Miller\nchris@MorningStar.Com", "I'm not sure were this thread has been before i popped in, but I've never\nthought of waiting periods as having anything to do with training or\ncompetence. I just can't imagin any valid reason for having a gun that\ncan't wait a few days. I can think of plenty of bad reasons for not\nwanting a waiting period: I want to buy a gun and kill so-and-so right\nnow, I've crossed the state line to buy a gun illegally and I can't\nafford to spend the night here, etc.\n\nI'm not a big fan of guns, but I feel that it is important to guard\nAmerican's rights to own them. On the other hand, we license and regulate\nmany things without seriously impeding anyones constitutional rights.", "\nPlease, PAY ATTENTION.\nI, and others, were referring to TOTAL HOMICIDE DEATHS, NOT JUST\nHANDGUN HOMICIDES. In terms of how likely are you to be killed,\n(regardless of how it's done, 'cause DEAD is DEAD), the UK has a\nhigher homicide rate. Period. You are more likely to be killed in the\nUK than in Switzerland. If you were to be murdered with a handgun,\nthen yes, Switzerland has a higher rate. But, to belabor the point,\nyou are MORE LIKELY to be murdered in the UK. In that sense, the\nweapon is irrelevant. The UK is more violent, period.\n\nAl\n[standard disclaimer]", "\nNope. Here in Northern California, a newspaper recently did a survey,\nasking if people favored stricter gun controls. A full 40% said no.\nHere, in one of the most Liberal (it wasn't always a swear word :( areas\nof the country, nearly half the people don't want additional controls, let\nalone revocation of RKBA...\n\n\nMisguided dolt though he may be (though, I still maintain, less dangerous\nthan Bush), Clinton does not publicly support revoking the second amendment.\n\n\nWell, I'll help MY neighbors...\n\n\nViolent solutions are passe'? I take it you propose disarming the police,\nthen?\n\nPlease don't mention RKBA in the same breath as the KKK. RKBA is about\nbeing able to defend yourself and others, not about killing the innocent.\nActually, your mention of the KKK is rather funny, considering that the\nfirst gun control law in the US were created specifically to disarm black\npeople...", " You're drifting off topic. In any case, if you check on any of the\ntopics devoted to gun rights issues, you will find ample evidence that\nthe \"misinformation\" is your assertion that the term \"the people\" in\nthe Second Amendment has mysteriously taken on a meaning diametrically\nopposite the meaning of the exact same term in the First and Fourth\nAmendments.\n\n\n", "I came across the following notice in the Denver Post classified secction\nthis morning (April 26, 1993):\n\n\\begin{quote}\n\nNOTICE:\n\nThe Denver Post will no longer knowingly accept any advertisement to buy\nor sell assault weapons. The Denver Post finds that the use of assault\nweapons poses a threat to the health, safety, and security of its readers.\n\n\\end{quote}\n\nNow I suppose the Post is within its rights to refuse such ads. However,\nthe second sentence is so noxious, I feel compelled to bring it to the \nattention of the t.p.g/c.g readership. \n\nI called the Post classified number (825-2525) and expressed my displeasure. \nAccording to the supervisor I spoke to, the Post was reacting to public\ncomplaints regarding the running of assult weapon ads. However, she said\nthe paper was keeping track of the reaction to the change in policy. I \nstrongly encourage Denver Post readers to call and make their feelings known.", "\nOh are we Jill? Let me tell you a story then...\n\nOne evening not long in this country a man, a parolee, a convicted KNOWN \nviolent crimminal lead police on high speed chase after breaking another law.\nHe decided that police had no right to do their jobs and enforce the law\nand assualted two of while attempting to resist arrest. When police use\nmetal sticks to force him into submission we heard all the reason why certain\npeople in this country have and excuse when they refuse to obey the law, \nhow this was a perfect example of police oppression, how all the police\nhad to do was behave a certain way and all would have been finei, how nothing\nthe victim did could have possibly warranted the response - some blows with\na few sticks - he got from the authorities.\n\nFunny, how when it's Bloodbath Billy or his hitwench calling the shots,\na group of people who were bothering no one, were not know to have broken \nany law, who asked only that they be left alone to practice their religion\nas they fit, how it is now that the government is justified in assualting\nthose people with 100 heavily armed commandos simply because the gun \ngrabbers in DC thought these people had more guns thay they thought they\nshould have. Now when it's the Clinton administration that has the blood\nof dozens on its hand AAAALL of a sudden it's the people who refused to\nhave their civil rights violated, it's their fault, those evil fanatics\nprovoked it...\n\nHow is it in the mind of the liberal Democrat-Clinton supporter that a\ncrimminal puke, scum bag, piece of garbage like Rodney King could not have\npossibly provoked the beating he got, but this bunch of wierdos could cause \na fifty one day stand off that ended with the burning deaths of all of them\nand their children, all by themselves with no help from the the police. \nAnd to here people say they deserved what they got, to hear Clinton say\nthe blame rest solely with Koresch, what a cowardly piece of work that\nman has shown, again, himself to be.\n\nWE'RE blaming the right people. It is you and others that defend ANY of the\nactions of the BATF, FBI or Justice Department in this matter, that with \neach word prove again and again the depth of the hypocrisy, the double\nstandard that people like the Clintons would hold certain Americans to. \nWhile at the same time allowing others to do as they please with only \nexcuses to offer their victims. It's all to clear these days, from the\ncomments of the \"president\" and the rationalizations of his supporters\nin these groups, that in a liberal Democratic vision of America only\na certain select few people can expect to have civil rights enforced, \nand this administration intends to enforce laws, apply the Constitution\nand obey the laws only when it suits them to do so. \n\nThe Rooster\n\n\t\t\t\tWARNING!\n\n By order of Heir Clinton and for your own\n personal safety: Remember to maintain membership\n in ONLY BATF approved religious organizations.\n\t \t BATF approved religious services.\n", "----------------------------------------------------------------------\nOpen letter by Dr. Paul H. Blackman, Research Coordinator for\nNRA-ILA. NRA Official Journal 1/89.\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nDear sir:\n\nBy now, we are used to the New England Journal of Medicine's publication\nof small-scale studies related to firearms from which conclusions are\ndrawn which are quantum leaps from the data, followed by announcements of \nmomentus \"scientific\" findings. These are regularly released to the press\nwithout the caveats which riddle the conclusory paragraphs, and\noften accompanied by an editorial calling attention to the findings.\nGenerally, while they at least present a few interesting data, however\nmeaningless, the studies misinterpret statistics, and ignore or belittle\nserious studies by criminologists.\n\nThe latest effort -- \"Handgun Regulations, Crime, Assaults, and Homicide:\nA Tale of Two Cities,\" by J.H. Sloan, et al., with the accompanying \neditorial, \"Firearms Injuries: A Call for Science,\" by two employees\nof the Centers for Disease Control (November 10), however, is an insult\nto the intelligence of any serious scholar in any field and have so few\ndata and so many flaws that I feel compelled to write at some length\nto call attention to various major and minor failings, in no particular\norder.\n\n\t1. The authors misleadingly cite Wright, et al. (Ref. 1) to \n\tsupport the statement that \"some have argued that restricting\n\taccess to handguns could substantially reduce our annual rate\n\tof homicide.\" Wright, et al., in fact studied and rejected that\n\tcontention.\n\t\n\t2. The authors pretended that Vancouver and Seattle are very\n\tsimilar cities with similar economic circumstances, histories,\n\tdemographic characteristics, and the like. In fact, the cities\n\tare very different with very different demographic characteristics\n\twhich appear to explain completely the higher homicide rate in\n\tSeattle. Both cities are over three-forths non-Hispanic white\n\tand *the non-Hispanic white homicide rates are reported to be\n\tthe same in Seattle and Vancouver*. It is the different back-\n\tgrounds, problems, circumstances, and behaviors of the various\n\tethnic minorities which explain the difference in homicide.\n\t\n\t3. The authors pretend they are evaluating Canada's gun law,\n\tcompared to Washington State's. But they do not examine at all\n\tthe situation in Vancouver prior to the gun law taking effect\n\tin 1978. As it happens, in the three years prior to that (1975-\n\t1977), Vancouver averaged 23 homicides per year, one-eighth\n\tinvolving handguns, (Ref. 2) and in the seven years of the NEJM\n\tarticle there were 29 homicides per year, one-eigth involving\n\thandguns. Surely even the medical profession recognizes that\n\tone must look to see the prior situation was before concluding\n\tthat a change made a difference? Would a physician conclude that\n\ta patient was benefiting from eating oat bran muffin each day\n\tfor seven years because his cholesterol level was 200 without\n\tat least seeing if it was 180 before he started the regimen?\n\t\n\t4. The authors pick two medium-sized cities to evaluate a national\n\tgun law. Nothing can be learned from such a tiny and arbitrarily\n\tselected sample. Seattle appears to have been selected because\n\tit was convienient for the authors rather than for any scientific\n\treason. Would physicians call something a scientific study which\n\tinvolved one experimental subject and one dissimilar \"control\"?\n\tHad different arbitrarily selected cities been chosen, opposite\n\t\"scientific\" conclusions would follow: Vancouver's homicide\n\trate *exceeds* that of such \"wild west\" cities in Texas as\n\tEl Paso, Corpus Christi, Austen, and, in Colorado, Colorado\n\tSprings. (Ref. 3)\n\t\n\t5. The authors fail to clearly demonstrate that firearms or\n\thandguns \"are far more commonly owned in Seattle than in\n\tVancouver.\" They use two surrogate approaches in pretending\n\tto study the availability of firearms/handguns. The first is\n\tan apples-and-oranges effort to compare the number of carry\n\tpermits in Seattle to the number of registered handguns in\n\tVancouver. But the number clearly understates the number of\n\thandguns in Seattle, and counts primarily *protective* handgun\n\towners. The second, however, tells nothing about the number\n\tof handguns in Vancouver, and counts *non-protective* handguns\n\tfor the most part. Where is it difficult to obtain handguns\n\tlegally for protection, registration figures are\n\tmeaningless. There are 66,000 registered handguns in New York\n\tCity (New York Daily News, Sept. 27, 1987). Comparing the two,\n\tthat method suggests about 930 handguns per 100,000 population\n\tin New York City compared to 960 in Vancouver, meaning Vancouver\n\thas a greater \"prevalence of weapons\" than New York City.\n\t\n\tThe second method of measuring gun density is \"Cook's gun\n\tprevalence index, a previously validated measure of intercity\n\tdifferences.\" But the validation was by Cook of his own\n\ttheory. (Ref. 4) Normally, second opinions are sought from a\n\tdifferent doctor. More significantly, the Cook index is\n\tbased on the average of the percentage of firearms involvement\n\tin suicide and homicide. So the authors are basically taking\n\ta measure of misuse. Unsurprisingly, gun misuse in homicide\n\t(42% in Seattle, 14% in Vancouver) is related to gun misuse in\n\thomicide plus suicide, divided by two (41% in Seattle, 12% in\n\tVancouver). The authors are not measuring the relative avail-\n\tability of firearms, or of handguns, in Seattle and\n\tVancouver.\n\t\n\t6. The authors misstate the laws of both Washington and\n\tCanada. They neglect to mention the significant fact that\n\tWashington has a waiting period and background check prior to\n\tthe purchase of a handgun, and that provisions exist in Canadian\n\tlaw for owning and carrying handguns for personal\n\tprotection. The authors also make it appear that it is more\n\tdifficult to get a handgun legally in Canada than is actually\n\tthe case.\n\t\n\t7. The authors ignore all other factors which might explain\n\tthe differences in crime rate, beyond some vague mention of the\n\tpenalities provided by law and the roughest of estimates of \n\tclearence for one particular offense -- homicide involving a\n\tfirearm. There is no measure of: the differences in the number\n\tof law enforcement officers; their aggressiveness in making\n\tarrests for gun law violations in the two jurisdictions; arrest\n\trates for other offenses; conviction rates; actual sentences\n\timposed for gun-related crimes, violent crimes without guns,\n\tor gun law violations; or incarceration rates. Whereas social\n\tscientists would attempt to measure and hold for such differences,\n\tthe authors of the NEJM \"tale of two cities\" fail even to mention\n\tmost factors related to crime control.\n\t\n\t8. The authors dismiss claims that handguns are an effective\n\tmeans for protection unless the criminal is killed. Such is not\n\tthe case. Criminologists (Ref. 5-8) have found that almost\n\t650,000 Americans annually use handguns for protection from\n\tcriminals, and that using a gun for protection reduces the\n\tliklihood that a crime -- rape, robbery, assault -- will be\n\tcompleted by the criminal and reduces the likelihood of injury\n\tto the victim. It is interesting, nonetheless, that the authors\n\treported the same number (four) of civilian justifiable homicides\n\twithout firearms in each city but that less restrictive Seattle\n\taccounted for 100% of the reported civilian justifiable homicides\n\tinvolving firearms.\n\t\n\t9. The Centers for Disease Control, which funded the \"study,\"\n\teditorially praised the paper, (Ref. 9) saying it \"applied\n\tscientific methods to examine a focus of contention betweeb\n\tadvocates of stricter regulation of firearms, particularly\n\thandguns.\" There is nothing in the paper which could possibly\n\tbe mistaken for \"scientific methods\" by a sociologists or\n\tcriminologists. The Vancouver-Seattle \"study\" is the equivolent\n\tof testing an experimental drug to control hypertension by finding\n\ttwo ordinary-looking middle-class white males, one aged 25\n\tand the other 40, and without first taking their vital signs,\n\tadministering the experimental drug to the 25-year-old while\n\tgiving the 40-year-old a placebo, then taking their blood pressure\n\tand, on finding the younger man had a lower blood pressure, \n\tannouncing in a \"special article\" a new medical breakthrough.\n\tIt would be nice to think that such a \"study\" would neither be\n\tfunded by the CDC or printed by the NEJM.\n\t\n\tSince the longstanding anti-gun biases of the NEJM and the CDC\n\tmake them willing to present shoddy research as \"scientific\n\tbreakthroughs\" in \"special articles\" and editorials relating\n\tto firearms, we are obligated to correct the record by notifying\n\tthe news media and those with congressional and executive oversight\n\tover the activities of the Centers for Disease Control about\n\tthe distortions contained in \"Handgun Regulations, Crime, Assaults,\n\tand Homicides: A Tale of Two Cities\" and \"Firearm Injuries: A Call\n\tfor Science.\" Clearly, all scientific standards go by the wayside\n\twhenever the CDC and the New England Journal of Medicine seize\n\tan opportunity to attack firearms ownership in America.\n\t\n\t\t\t\tREFERENCES\n\n1. Wright JD, et al, *Weapons, crime and violence in America*: a literature\nreview and research agenda, Washington, D.C.: Department of Justice,\n1981.\n\n2. Scarff E. *Evaluation of the Canadian gun control legislation*: final\nreport. Ottawa: Ministry of the Solicitor General of Canada, 1983,\np. 87.\n\n3. Department of Justice, Federal Bureau of Investigation, *Crime in\nthe United States*, 1987 (Uniform Crime Reports). Washington, D.C.:\nGovernment Printing Office, 1988\n\n4. Cook PJ. *The role of firearms in violent crime*. In: Wolfgang M.\nWeiner NA, eds. *Criminal violence*, Beverly Hills, Calif.: Sage, 1982:\n236-90, pp. 270-271.\n\n5. Kleck G. *Crime control through the private use of armed force*.\nSocial Problems 1988: 35:1-21.\n\n6. Ziegenhagen EA, Brosnan D. *Victim responses to robbery and crime\ncontrol policy*. Criminology. 1985: 23:675-695.\n\n7. Lizotte AJ. *Determinants of completeing rape and assault*. Journal\nof Quantitative Criminology. 1986: 2:203-217.\n\n8. Sayles SL, Kleck G. *Rape and resistance*. Paper at the American Society\nof Criminology convention, Chicago, 1988.\n\n9. Mercy JA, Houk VN. *Firearm injuries: a call for science*. \nNEJM: 319:1283-1285.\n==========================================================================\n\n GUNS AND SPUTTER\n by James D. Wright\n (from July 1989 issue of REASON, Free Minds & Free Markets)\n\n suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.\" The problem is demonstrated\n by the most recent entry in a long line of scientific research purporting\n to show a causal link between gun availability and homicide. Funded by\n the federal government and published last year in the New England Journal\n of Medicine, the study compared homicide rates in Seattle and Vancouver and\n suggested that a handgun ban \"may reduce the rate of homicide in a \n community.\"\n The nine medical doctors who published \"Handgun Regulations, Crime,\n Assaults, and Homicide\" essentially reasoned in three steps: (1) Despite\n many historical, social, and demographic similarities, (2) Vancouver\n has a markedly lower homicide rate (3) because its stricter gun regulations\n make guns less available. The second step in their reasoning seems\n indisputable. The overall homicide rate in Seattle (for the period\n 1980-86) was 11.3 per 100,000 popuation, compared with 6.9 in Vancouver.\n Homicide is definitely more common in Seattle. The question then becomes,\n Why?\n The authors present a believable although not entirely accurate case\n to support the notion, as claimed in the third step of their reasoning,\n that Vancouver's handgun regulations are much more stringent. But their\n evidence on the difference in gun *availabilty* is indirect and \n unpersuasive; indeed, they acknowledge that direct evidence on the point\n does not exist. They offer two fragments of inferential data in support\n of the claim that guns are more available in Seattle; but for all anybody\n knows as a matter of empirical fact, the opposite could be true. We\n are therefore being asked, at the conclusion of the study, to believe that\n a difference in gun availability explains the difference in homicide rates\n when a difference in gun availability has not itself been established.\n Indeed, the situation is even more troublesome. The first of the two\n indirect bits of evidence is a difference between the number of concealed-\n weapons permits issued in Seattle and the number of restricted-weapons\n permits issued in Vancouver. Differences between the two cities in the\n permit regulations render these two numbers strictly noncomparable.\n* The second bit of evidence is \"Cook's gun prevalence index,\" which stands\n* at 41 percent for Seattle but only 12 percent for Vancouver. Cook's index\n* however, does not measure the relative prevalence of gun ownership in \n* various cities. It measures gun misuse--it is an average of the percentage\n* of homicides and suicides involving firearms.\n* In the present case, the index shows only that in homicides and suicides,\n* firearms are more likely to be used in Seatte than in Vancouver. To take\n* Cook's index as a measure of general firearms availability, it must be\n* assumed that the proportional involvement of guns in homicides and suicides\n* is directly related to their relative availability in the general \n* population. But this is exactly what the authors are seeking to prove. To\n* assume what one is seeking to prove, then to \"prove\" it on the basis of\n* that assumption does ot constitute scientific evidence for anything.\n Even if we were to grant, on the basis of no compelling evidence, that\n guns are less common in Vancouver, we might still question what causes what.\n The authors attribute Seattle's higher crime rate to a higher rate of gun\n ownership. But it might well be argued that low crime or homicide rates\n reduce the motivation for average citizens to obtain guns--in other words,\n that crime rates explain the variation in gun ownership, not vice versa.\n In fact, it was once commonly argued that Great Britain's low rate of\n violent crime was a function of that nation's strict gun laws and the \n consequent low rate of gun ownership--until British researcher Colin \n Greenwood found that Great Britain had enjoyed low rates of violent crime\n for many decades before strict firearms controls were enacted. To invoke\n an ancient methodological saw, correlation is not cause.\n Nor do the problems with this study end with its lack of direct data\n on gun ownership. The authors say Seattle and Vancouver are \"similar in\n many ways,\" implying that they differ mainly in gun availability, gun-law\n stringency, and crime rates. This is an evident attempt to establish\n the ceteris paribus condition of a sound scientific analysis--that \"all\n else is equal\" among things being compared.\n* Clearly the two cities are similar in some ways, but a closer look \n* reveals differences in ways that are relevant to their respective crime\n* or homicide rates. The cities are closely matched in what percentage\n* of their population is white (79 percent and 76 percent). But Seattle\n* is about 10 percent black, while Vancouver is less than 0.5 percent.\n* Vancouver's minority population is overwhelmingly Asian. So although the\n* authors show that th two cities are approximately comparable on a half-\n* dozen readily available demographic indicators, they have not shown\n* that all potentially relevant sources of variation have been ruled out.\n* In fact, the differences in racial compositions of the two cities is\n* particularly relevant in light of the study's breakdown of homicide rates\n* according to the race of the victim. For the white majority, the homicide\n* rates are nearly identical--6.2 per 100,000 in Seattle, 6.4 in Vancouver.\n* The differing overall homicide rates in the two cities are therefore due\n* entirely to vastly different rates among racial minorities. For blacks,\n* the observed difference in homicide rate is 36.6 to 9.5 and for Hispanics\n* 26.9 to 7.9. (Methodoligical complexities render the Asian comparison\n* problematic, but it too is higher in Seattle than in Vancouver.) Racial\n* minorities are much more likely to be the victims of homicide in Seattle\n* than in Vancouver; the white majority is equally likely to be slain\n* in either city.\n Since the nearly 2:1 initial difference in homicide reates between the\n cities is due exclusively to 3:1 or 4:1 differences between minority \n groups, it is fair to ask why postulated difference in \"gun availability\"\n (or gun-law strigency) would matter so dramatically to minorities but not\n matter at all to whites. Can differential gun availability explain why\n blacks and Hispanics--but not whites--are so much more likely to be killed\n in Seattle than in Vancouver? (Studies in the United States, incidentally,\n do not show large or consistent racial differences in gun ownership.)\n Or are other explanations more plausible? Could the disparity between\n Canadian and American rates of poverty among racial minorities have \n anything to do with it? What are the relative rates of drug or alcohol \n abuse? Of homelessness among each cty's minority population? (The city\n of Seattle runs the largest shelter for homeless men west of the \n Mississippi.) Unemployment among young, central-city, nonwhite men in the\n United States usually exceeds 40 percent. What is the comparable Canadian\n percentage?\n The crucial point is that Canada and the United States differ in many\n ways, as do cities and population subgroups with the two countries. Absent\n more detailed analysis, nearly any of these \"many ways\" might explain part\n or all of the difference in homicide rates. In gross comparisons such\n as those between Seattle and Vancouver, all else is *not* equal.\n* The authors of this study acknowledge that racial patterns in homicide\n* result in a \"complex picture.\" They do not acknowledge that the ensuing\n* complexities seriously undercut the main thrust of their argument. They\n* also acknowledge that \"socio-economic status is probably an important\n* confounding factor in our comparison,\" remarking further that \"blacks \n* in Vancouver had a slightly higher mean income in 1981 than the rest of\n* Vancouver's population.\" Given the evidence presented in the article,\n* it is possible that all of the difference in homicide rates between Seattle\n* and Vancouver results from greater proverty among Seattle's racial\n* minorities. But the authors pay no further attention to this possibility,\n* since \"detailed information about household incomes according to race\n* is not available for Vancouver.\"\n The largely insurmountable methodological difficulties confronted in \n gross comparative studies of this sort can be illustrated with as simple\n example. If one were to take all U.S. couties and compare them in terms\n of (1) pervalence of gun ownership and (2) crime or homicide rates, one \n would find an astonishing pattern: Counties with more guns have less crime.\n Would one conclude from this evidence alone that guns actually reduce \n crime? Or would one insist that other variables also be taken into\n account? In this example, the \"hidden variable\" is city size: Guns are\n more common in small towns and rural areas, whereas crime is a big-city\n problem. If researchers failed to anticipate this variable, or lacked the\n appropriate data to examine its possible consequences, they coud be very\n seriously misled. In the study at hand, the authors matched two cities\n for size but not for minority poverty rates or other hidden variables,\n and their results are impossible to interpret.\n In the editorial \"Firearm Injuries: A Call for Science\" accompanying\n the study, two officials from the Centers for Disease Control lauded the\n authors for applying \"scientific methods\" to a problem of grave public\n heath significance. But in attempting to draw causal conclusions from\n nonexperimental research, the essence of scientific method is to anticipate\n plausible alternative explanations for the results and try to rule them\n out. Absent such effort, the results may well seem scientific but are\n little more than polemics masquerading as serious research. That this\n study is but one of a number of recent efforts--all employing practical\n identical research designs and published in leading scientific journals--\n is cause for further concern.\n\n [James D. Wright is professor of sociology at Tulane University. He has\n researched extensively on the relationship of firearms and crime.]\n\nReason published monthly except combined August-September issue by the Reason\nFoundation, a nonprofit, tax-exempt organization. Subscription rate: $24.00 \nper year.", "Okay, here is the result of my efforts. I'm just getting started with this\ntype of activity, so please set your flame-thowers on low.\n\nComments, corrections, suggestions, welcomed.\n\n****************************************************************************\n\nEditor, \n\nI would like to ask you and your readers a few questions that are related to\nthe \"right to keep and bear arms\", and to a greater degree, the many other\n\"rights\" that we take for granted on a daily basis. \n\n1.\tYou're sleeping at night, when you hear someone in your house. You\ncall the police. How will you defend yourself, should the need arise, while\nyou are waiting for the police to arive? \n\n2.\tYou are driving your family home when your car breaks down. A \"good\nsamaritan\" stops to \"help\", when you find you and your family at gun-point or\nknife-point. How will you defend yourself? And your Family? \n\n3.\tYou are a woman walking alone to your car or home. A man appears\nsuddenly with the intent to rape you. How will you defend yourself? Are you\nstrong enough to fight off your attacker? Are you willing to let this man rape\nyou in order to survive the attack? \n\nIf the House and Senate have their way, we will soon not have the right to keep\nand bear arms, as provided by the Second Amendment to the Constitution. A gun\nmay not be the answer to each and every dangerous situation, but are you going\nto let the politicians decide what sort of force or weapon you may use to\ndefend yourself and your family? \n\nMany times a situation may be diffused by just brandishing your handgun. If\ncertain members of the House and Senate have their way, .25, .32, and 9mm\nammunition will be banned for sale to anyone other than the military and law\nenforcement departments. Very soon, you may not be able to purchase ammunition\nfor use in your handgun. \n\nThere is already a 15 day waiting period in California. Do you really feel\nthat any law abiding citizen should be required to wait this amount of time for\nthe purchase of a handgun when his life or family members have been threatened?\n\nOur local police do an excellent job, but they can not be there all the time,\nor in a moments notice. You should have the right to protect yourself while\nwaiting for help to arrive. \n\nThere is currently legislation circulating in Washington that would prohibit\nthe sale of certain types of ammuntion, handguns, rifles, and shot-guns. One\nelected official even wants to repeal the Second Amendment! \n\nI want to ask the readers of this paper what they would do if their elected\nofficials decided that they should only belong to a \"certain church\", or go to\nchurch on a \"partiular day\"? What if you were told that you could only read\ncertain books? Write about certain subjects? What if you no longer had the\nright to a jury of your peers? How about the right to assemble in a peaceful\nmanner? ", ": > Last year the US suffered almost 10,000 wrongful or accidental\n: > deaths by handguns alone (FBI statistics). In the same year, the UK\n: > suffered 35 such deaths (Scotland Yard statistics). The population\n: > of the UK is about 1/5 that of the US (10,000 / (35 * 5)). Weighted\n: > for population, the US has 57x as many handgun-related deaths as the\n: > UK. And, no, the Brits don't make up for this by murdering 57x as\n: > many people with baseball bats.\n\n: You just can't compare this way! All homicides must be shown, per capita, not \n: just handguns. The availability of them in the USA makes them the preferred \n: murder weapon, but ban them, and some other weapon will step in as the \n: favorite.\n\nAs a \"favorite\", sure. As lethal, not likely. A study of violence in\nChicago produced this table:\n\n\t\tPercentage of Reported Gun and Knife Attacks\n\t\t\t Resulting in Death\n\t\t\t \n\tWeapon\t\t\t\tDeaths As Percentage of Attacks\n\t---------------------------------------------------------------\n\tKnives (16,518 total attacks)\t\t 2.4\n\tGuns (6,350 total attacks)\t\t12.2\n\n\tSource: Firearms and Violence in American Life\n\t\nIt might be contended that if gun murderers were deprived of guns\nthat they would find a way to kill as often with knives. If this were\nso, knife attacks in cities where guns were widely used in homicide\nwould be expected to show a low fatality rate, and knife attacks in\ncities where guns were not so widely used (like Vancouver) would show\na higher fatality rate. But the Nat'l Commission on the Causes and\nPrevention of Violence Task Force analyzed the data and found this\nnot to be the case. It appeared to them that as the number of knife\nattacks increased in relation to the number of firearms attacks\n(which presumably happened where guns were less available to assailants),\nthe proportion of FATAL knife attacks did NOT increase relative to the\nproportion of gun attacks. In fact, the reverse was true.\n\nWhat was found was that most homicides did not show a determination on\nthe part of the assailant to kill. Fatalities caused by knife tended\nto show a single-mindedness on the part of the assailant to do grave\nphysical injury: multiple stabs wounds, wounds concentrated about the\nhead neck and chest, etc. Most gun homicides did not show this\npattern. Rather, more fatal attacks were committed during a moment of\nrage and not the focused intent to kill the victim.\n\n\tSource: Report on Firearms and Violence\n\n: Then, since England != USA (my ancestors left because of the oppression) you \n: must compare England before strict gun laws to England after strict gun laws to \n: be able to draw any meaning at all. England has essentially legalized drugs, \n: so there are no drug gangs battling for turf, etc., there. If you drop out the \n: drug related killings here, the USA would look a whole lot more peaceful.\n\nThere are a lot of factors which make a difference. Actually, I'm not\nfond of making ANY kind of social parallels between Europeans and\nAmericans. There are more cultural, beahvioral and economic\ndifferences between us than similarities. I just sort of found\nmyself backed into that corner over the last couple of weeks. I\ndon't think we could ever attain the low levels of European violent\ncrime here in the US, whether we banned guns or required every\nlaw-abiding citizen to carry a loaded Uzi.\n\nOn the other hand, we can draw lessons from neighbors who are more\nculturally similar, namely the Canadians. In fact, an exhaustive,\nseven-year study has already been done of the respective crime rates\nof Vancouver, British Columbia and Seattle, Washington... cities\nwith roughly the same population, urban economy, geography\nand crime but with decidedly different approaches to gun control.\n\nIn Seattle, handguns may be purchased legally for self-defense. After\na 30-day waiting period, a permit can be obtained to carry a concealed\nweapon. The recreational use of handguns is minimally restricted.\n\nIn Vancouver, self-defense is not considered a valid or legal reason\nto purchase a handgun. Concealed weapons are not permitted.\nRecreational uses of handguns (target shooting, collecting) are\nregulated by the province. Purchase of a handgun requires a\nrestricted-weapons permit. A permit to carry may be obtained in\norder to transport the weapon to licensed shooting clubs. Handguns\ntransported by vehicle must be stored in the trunk in a locked box.\nIn short, gun control but not unreasonably so.\n\nBoth cities aggressively enforce their gun laws. Convictions for\ngun-related offenses carry similar penalties. The researchers\nstudied all cases of robbery, assault (simple and aggravated),\nburglary and homicides occurring in Seattle and Vancouver from\n1/1/80 to 12/31/86. In defining the cases, they used the same\nstandard: the FBI's Unified Crime Report.\n\nResults: during the seven-year study the annual rate of robbery in\nSeattle was found to be only slightly higher than that in Vancouver\n(1.09 / 1.11). Burglaries occurred at nearly identical rates (.99).\n18,925 assaults were recorded in Seattle versus 12,034 in\nVancouver. The risk of being a victim of a simple assault in\nSeattle was found to be only slightly higher than Vancouver (1.18 /\n1.15) and the risk of aggravated assault was also slightly higher\n(1.16 / 1.12). However, when aggravated assaults were subdivided by\nweapon and the mechanism of assault, a clear pattern emerged.\nAlthough both cities reported nearly identical rates of aggravated\nassault involving knives and other dangerous weapons, firearms were\nfar more likely to be used in Seattle. In fact, 7.7 times as often.\n\nOver the seven-year study, 388 homicides occurred in Seattle\n(11.3 per 100,000) vs. 204 homicides in Vancouver (6.9 per 100,000).\nAfter adjustment for differences in age and sex among the populations,\nthe relative risk of being a victim of homicide in Seattle, as\ncompared to Vancouver, was found to be 1.63.\n\nWhen homicides were subdivided by the mechanism of death, the rate\nof homicide by knives and other weapons (excluding firearms) in\nSeattle was found to be almost identical to that in Vancouver.\nVirtually ALL of the increased risk of death in Seattle was due to\na more than fivefold higher rate of homicide by firearms. Handguns\naccounted for roughly 85% of homicides involving firearms. Handguns\nwere 4.8 times more likely to be used in homicides in Seattle than\nin Vancouver.\n\nThe authors of the report also investigated \"legally justifiable\"\nhomicides (self-defense). Only 32 such homicides occurred during\nthe seven-year study, 11 of which were committed by police. Only\n21 cases of civilians acting in self-defense occurrred: 17 in\nSeattle and 4 in Vancouver. Only 13 involved firearms. After\nexcluding these cases, there was virtually no impact on these\nearlier findings.\n\n-------\n\nThis is, I feel, a very fair report. One might even make the\nargument that it is biased against Canada as a whole because\nVancouver reports annual rates of homicide two to three times\nthat of Ottawa, Calgary and Toronto while Seattle reports\nannual homicide rates only half to two-thirds that of NYC,\nChicago, Los Angeles and Houston.\n\nCritics of handgun control always argue that limited legal access\nto handguns will have little effect on the rates of homicide because\npersons intent on killing others will only try harder to acquire a\ngun or will kill by other means. This report shows differently.\nIf the rate of homicide in a community were influenced more by\nthe strength of intent than by the availability of weapons, we\ncould expect the rate of homicides by weapons other than guns to\nbe higher in Vancouver than in Seattle. However, during the study\ninterval, Vancouver's rate of homicide by weapons other than guns\nwas not significantly higher than that in Seattle, suggesting that\nfew would-be assailants switched to homicide by other methods.\n\nAs well, ready access to handguns for self-defense by law-abiding\ncitizens was not endorsed in this report. Although Seattle did\nexperience a higher rate of firearm death for self-defense, these\ncases accounted for less than 4% of the homicides in both cities\nduring the course of the study period. And, as was reported,\nSeattle apparently didn't enjoy relief from any crime category\nover Vancouver because citizens may legally arm themselves for\nself-defense.\n\n\tHeavily quoted source: Handgun Regulation, Crime,\n\tAssaults, and Homicide: A Tale of Two Cities.\n\n\tJohn H. Sloan, Arthur L. Kellerman, Donald T. Reay,\n\tJames A. Ferris, Thomas Koepsall, Frederick P. Rivara,\n\tCharles Rice, Laurel Gray and James LoGerfo", "Okay. I have my copies of all relevant gun-control bills. I'm mad as hell.\nI want to get involved. I want to join the battle to protect our Second\nAmendment Rights.\n\nWho do I write?\n\nWho should I concentrate on writing my comments to? The actual author of the\nbill? The supporters of the bill? My Congressman? My Senator? Newspapers?\nMagazines? All of the above?\n\nI don't believe that I will change the world, but at least I am going to throw\na few punches. Can any of you offer any advice or suggestions to me as I now\nbegin to get involved here?\n\nThanks for replying directly to me via e-mail.", "\nI think that HCI people honestly believe that passing more gun control\nlaws will be in the best interests of public safety. Why do I think\nthis? Because I used to buy the HCI line. During my freshman year (1987),\ntheir line made so much sense -- only people who \"need\" guns should be\nable to get them, and the people who \"need\" them are the police and\nother elites. Unfortunately for us, this position is highly emotional\nand not well thought-out. They never stop to think that HCI's position\nbasically says that the non-elite are incompetents (that's you and me,\nfolks!) and that the Second Amendment has absolutely nothing to do with\nhunting or other \"legitimate\" uses (which excludes overthrowing tyrannical\ngovernments and defending yourself when the police have proven they\ncan't protect you).\n\n\nEvery pro-control person I've talked to is always left stumped when I\nsimply argue the facts of gun control (that it has yet to be proven to\nlower crime rates) and weapons terminology (and I'm no expert -- but\nexplaining exactly how an \"evil\" semiautomatic weapon really works\ndoes wonders).\n\nI hvae personally found well-reasoned arguments to be most effective\nagainst the emotional pro-control people. The trick is to get them to\nrealize that the Second Amendment exists not for hunters but for the\noppressed and the terrorized.", "\n\n\nHey dude you are making me paranoid! What an argument!!!\n\n\n\nNo, Frank Crary's arguments are based on the assumption that most people\nare sane, normal people. tpg disproves this of gun owners. USEnet as a whole\ndisproves it of humanity as a whole.\n\nWe now have proof positive that guns don't make you safer. Buy a lot of\nguns and you either get shot in the no knock raid or get the FBI to burn\ndown your house. See even in the paranoid mindset of tpg there are good reasons\nto support gun control.\n\n\nCuddles 'n kisses", "\n Looking at it from up here in the Frozen North, it looks like\n you could do worse than get the NRA involved. They have a\n kindred problem, a large number of voters, the right attitude,\n and lots of funds.\n\n From an ethical _or_ constitutional viewpoint, I haven't seen\n a good argument for cryptographic rights that doesn't also\n support the NRA position on guns (and vice-versa).\n\n Cheers,\n Marc\n\n---\n Marc Thibault | marc@tanda.isis.org\n Automation Architect | CIS:71441,2226\n R.R.1, Oxford Mills, Ontario, Canada | NC FreeNet: aa185", "\n\n This seems a strange argument to make considering that Canada's\nviolent crime rate in general is far lower than that of the U.S. (Our\nnon-gun crime rate is greater than their *entire* crime rate). It\nwould seem strange to suggest that it, to, were the result of gun\ncontrol laws.\n\n I think if we looked we'd find very specific (cultural and\nenforcement) reasons why the non-gun rate is low as well, and then\nthat reasons could be applied to the with-gun rates as easily.\n\n\n Aside from the fact that I find the idea of being punished\nbecause somebody might steal something from me and go and commit a\ncrime with it a silly solution, it still doesn't address the\nquestion of Canada. (Which is now, by the way, blaming their rising\ngun-crime rate on the U.S. Strange that the border used to \"magically\"\nkeep the guns out, but now isn't.)\n\n\n The other side of the coin, of course, is that far \"illegal drugs\"\nare purchases legally or stolen from people who purchase them legally. \nI've still not been convinced that guns, a commodity which criminals\nhave shown their perfectly willing to pay for from illegal sources\n(stolen either from police, military, or civilian) we wouldn't simply\nsee South American sources from which drugs come start smuggling guns as\nwell, since there's a thriving gun manufacturing industry down there.\n\n\n And as was not pointed out in the study, but in critiques\nof it, (two seperate articles by James Wright and David Kopel come\nto mind) it was pointed out that the difference was *also* almost\nentirely minority related. That is, the gun crime rate skyrocketed\nfor poor minorities (Blacks and Hispanics primarily) while when you\ncompared the white majority they were virutally identical.\n\n The problem with the NEJM study was they compared minority vs.\nnon-minority percentages but failed to take into account the relative\nconditions of those minorities. That there was an eqaul percentage of\nnomn-whites was about as far as they went. They failed to take into\naccount that the non-whites in either city were not living in the\nsame conditions.\n\n If the situation was entirely based on availability of guns,\nthen we'd expect that the white rates, the two groups which are\narguably fairly comparative in the two cities, would have a far\nhigher rate in Seattle. Yet the majority in Seattle is not only\nnot significantly higher when the minorities are excluded, but slightly\nlower.\n\n\n\n The point is, of course, that many of the U.S. \"inner-city\"\nproblems are not mirrored in Canada. As such if there is a condition\nwhich is significantly different in Canada from the U.S., and violent\ncrime is highly correlated to that area, suggesting that gun control\nis the source of Canada's low rate is highly questionable. (As one\nCanadian pointed out on talk.politics.guns, Canada's major gun control\nin 1978 did not result in either a reduction or a slowing of an increase\nin violent crime rates, which have been rising steadily since. Apparently\nthey didn't even mirror the U.S.s very large drop of violent crime in\nthe early eighties.\n\n\n True only to a certain extent. Take Washington D.C., where\ngun control was instituted while it had crime problems true, but that\ncrime proceeded to explode afterwards. Similarly for New York.\n\n The question is not simply a point in time where crime was high\nor low. Did the gun control significantly and positively impact\nviolent crime. Since it's gone up in those areas, often faster than it\nwas going up before, you can't simply dismiss the high crime rate by\nsaying gun control was caused by it. Yes, gun control may be instituted\nto deal with high crime. But if the crime is not positively impacted, you\ncan't continually say that that crime rate was entirely a cause of\nthat gun control, since much of that crime rate increased after gun control\nwas implemented, just as happened in Canada.\n\n\n As would be expected if violent crime was generally independent\nof gun control.\n\n\n Would this be the laws which made manufacturers liable for what\nothers did with their guns, and suddenly the police found nobody would\nsell to them?", "\nHello,\n\n\tI understand this philosophy. The bears are a national\ntreasure, the area is their sanctuary and people who enter it\ndo so at their own risk. It is better that that rare human be\nkilled by a bear than that bears be provoked or shot by unbear-savvy\nvisitors. The bears aren't having a population explosion, humans\nare so it is better that a human be killed than endanger the bears.\nI don't agree with this philosopy, but I understand it.\n\n\tThe psychos are a bit different. They are not a national\ntreasure but I suppose the decision has been made that to \"allow\"\nprovision for defense against them would also \"allow\" provision\nfor defense against bears. Again, I suppose it has been decided\nthat it is better for the rare human to be killed by a psycho than\nto take a chance on threatening the bears.\n\n\tPersonally, I wouldn't go into an area where I would be\n\"managed\" so as to reduce my safety ..... but ... come to think\nof it I guess I live in a managed wilderness myself :-)", "\nThe Supreme Court seems to disagree with you -- they have stated that\n\"the people\" is a term of art refering to an individual right, and\nhave explicitly mentioned the second amendment as an example.\n\nI quote:\n\n \"... 'the people' seems to have been a term of art employed in\n select parts of the Constitution. The Preamble declares that the\n Constitution is ordained, and established by 'the people of the\n the U.S.' The Second Amendment protects the right of the people\n to keep and bear Arms ....\"\n\t- Supreme Court of the U.S., U.S. v. Uerdugo-Uriquidez (1990).\n\nFurthermore, in the Miller decision, they only permitted prosecution\nfor possession of a sawed-off shotgun because the defense had not\npresented testimony and they therefore accepted the argument of the\ngovernment that such weapons have no military value -- they held that\nthe amendment protected the individual right to possess military\nweapons. Unfortunately, no second amendment case has successfully\ngotten to the court in fifty years. However, that does not change the\ninterpretation.\n\nFurthermore, it appears that others disagree with you as well, vis:\n\n \"The conclusion is thus inescapable that the history, concept,\n and wording of the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the\n United States, as well as its interpretation by every major\n commentator and court in the first half-century after its ratifi-\n cation, indicates that what is protected is an individual right\n of a private citizen to own and carry firearms in a peaceful manner.\"\n - Report of the Subcommittee on the Constitution of the\n Committee on the Judiciary, United States Senate,\n 97th Congress, Second Session ( February 1982 )\n\nYou might rightfully ask \"well then, what does that first bit about\nmilitias mean?\"\n\nWell, \"militia\" in historical context basically means the whole of the\nadult males of the country. (Indeed, the U.S. Code still defines\n\"militia\" as all armed men over the age of 17).\n\n \"The Militia comprised all males physically capable of acting\n in concert for the common defense .... And ... these men were\n expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of\n the kind in common use at the time.\"\n\t- Supreme Court of the United States, U.S. v. Miller (1939).\n\nThe reason for the phrase being there was to explain the rationale\nbehind the amendment, which was this: by depending on the people to\nbear arms in defense of the country, no centralization of military\npower could ever occur which would permit tyranny -- in short, the\ngovernment would remain perpetually in fear of the people, rather than\nthe other way around.\n\n \"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason\n for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last\n resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.\"\n - Thomas Jefferson, Proposal Virginia Constitution, June 1776\n 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 (C. J. Boyd, Ed., 1950).\n\n \"And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not\n warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of\n resistance ? Let them take arms ... The tree of liberty must be\n refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.\"\n - Thomas Jefferson (letter to William S. Smith, 1787, in\n Jefferson, On Democracy 20, S. Padover, ed., 1939).\n\n \"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed;\n as they are in almost every kingdom of Europe. The supreme\n power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword;\n because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute\n a force superior to any bands of regular troops that can be, on\n any pretense, raised in the United States.\"\n - Noah Webster, \"An Examination into the Leading Principles\n of the Federal Constitution\" (1787), in Pamphlets on the\n Constitution of the United States (P. Ford, 1888).\n\nYou may disagree with the second amendment, and wish that it be\nrepealed, but please do not pretend that it isn't there and that it\ndoesn't mean what it says. You might argue that conditions have\nchanged and that it should no longer be present, but you can't imagine\nit away.\n\nI could fill a book with detailed argumentation. Many have already.\n\nHowever, none of this has anything to do with cryptography. Lets get\nit out of here. If you insist on discussing this, please do it in\ntalk.politics.guns, where people will gladly discuss this matter with\nyou.\n\n--\nPerry Metzger\t\tpmetzger@shearson.com", "I just called Texas' legislative bill tracking service and found out\nthat HB 1776 (Concealed Carry) is scheduled for a floor vote TODAY!\nLet those phone calls roll in.\n\nDaryl", "\nCarrying in the glove box is not covered...I'm not sure what I was \nthinking there. It _is_ legal in Oklahoma. \n\nOn inter-state travel, as long as it is legal for you to own\nat your point of origination and destination, the gun is carried\nin a locked compartment/box (glove box specifically excluded) separate\nfrom the ammo, it is legal under Title 19, Chapter 44, Section 94(9? I\nforget, and my copy of the regs is at home) of the US Code. This,\nunfortunately, has not prevented the theft by state troopers of a\ncertain state (which shall remain nameless to protect the hopelessly\nstupid) under that state's law.\n\nGee, and I thought Federal Law overrode state law...\n\n\t\t\t\tJames", "\n\tThe debate over the Second Amendment rages on.\nArguments continue over what a \"well-regulated militia\"\nis and what TRKBA means in practical terms. However, the\nONLY authority in this area, is a binding court decision\non the matter. Even a decision in this area is subject to\nan overturning by a higher court. Is there anyone who\nhas the facts of a legal precedent, preferably a Supreme\nCourt decision on the specific meaning of the 2nd Amendment?\n", "\nCCW's are issued at the discretion of the police chief, so it varies\ntown by town.\n\nIn my town, forget about anything more than \"target and sport\" (carry to\nand from the gun club / hunting area only) unless you're Mr. Moneybags\nwith Large Daily Deposits. (\"Your life isn't worth shit, but your money --\nnow, that's important.\") In other towns, they treat law abiding citizens\nlike adults. \n\nSecret game hint: you never know when the rules will be changed -- a change \nin police chief can throw a town from either side of the board to the other\n-- fun for the whole family!\n\nSome chiefs will grant you a \"personal protection\" permit if you have been\nattacked or threatened. Some other blue-suited assholes have been known to \ncount this as a NEGATIVE against applicants.\n\nIt's a crap shoot, and your rights are the stakes.\n-- ", "\n\n\n\tWhy sell them at a low price to poor people immediately? The NRA\nis an educational organization too, after all, and it would be a shame\nto pay all that money for new guns when these cheap guns would allow a\nlot of money thus saved to be used in opening more classes. Mention\nthat the NRA trains our boys in blue and you've got the media between\na rock and a hard place.\n\n\t\"City pays $50 per gun to reduce crime.\"\n\t\t\tor\n\t\"NRA to pay $50 per gun to provide training guns for police\n\t and citizens. Classes expanded with money saved.\"", "\nThere are roughly 1200 fatal, firearms-related accidents each year.\nThe large majority involve rifles and shotgun; there are under 500\nfatal handgun accidents each year. I really doubt all of those\noccur while the pistol is holstered, so the number of \"self-inflicted\ngunshot wounds by people wearing thigh holsters\" is probably\nwell under 250 per year.\n\n\nHandguns designs have included a \"hammer block\" since around 1960\nor earlier. This is a metal part which physically seperates\nthe cartridge and the firing pin: Even under impact, the gun\ncannot fire. The hammer block is connected to the trigger and\nis pulled out of the way as the trigger is pulled. As a result,\nmodern pistols can fire _only_ if the trigger is pulled (or \nin some cases, if they are cocked by hand and then dropped.) \n\n\nI don't know about animal attacks, but there are 23,500 murders \neach year and under 500 die in the manner you suggest. If only\n2.1% of the murders were killings by \"wacko\"s, you would be\nwrong. Worse, there are also 102,500 rapes and 1,055,000 aggravated\nassaults each year. These numbers make violent attacks, and \npreventing them, thousands of times more significant than the\naccidents you are worried about.\n\n(These figures, by the way, are from the FBI's \"Uniform Crime\nReport\" for 1990. I'll stop by a library tomorrow and look at\nthe \"National Crime Victimization Survey\", which is more\nspecific about where and when the crimes occured.)", "A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of the FREE State,\nthe right of the people to KEEP and BEAR arms, shall not be infringed.\n\nI know that as a Canadian, I don't have much to stand on...\n\nBut, I think that the right to KEEP and BEAR arms is very important to\nmaintaining a FREE society. The America is still the most enviable\nplace to live on this Earth (by anyone with their head on straight)\nand will stay that way only if more people stand-up PUBLICLY for what\nthey believe!!\n\nRemember, that if you stand for nothing... You'll fall for anything...\nincluding \"well-meaning\" socialists, they did in Canada.", "And why is this Freeman? Even if a pro-gun person doesn't know what they are\ntalking about there is always the possibility that they will learn a thing or\ntwo. I am and will continue to post even if people get angry with what I have\nto say. I have several good sources of material now that I know where to look\nso calm down.\n\nAh, Freeman seems to forget from my statement that I am learning. I have also\nasked several of the not-so-hostile folks on this group for sources of\ninformation to read. Do you think, Freeman, that maybe this means I am\ninterested in learning? I think it does because as you said people who don't\nknow anything won't be good for the pro-gun cause.\n\nAnother good habit to get into is to realize that not everyone is you Freeman\nand accept mistakes. Sure, maybe it could have been some type of\nmisinformation being slung by some anti-gun nut but it wasn't. I made my\nstatement to inform everyone of this and everyone who replied said don't worry\nabout it but also to learn as much as you can. They accepted my mistake and\ngave me sources of information and told me to read as much as possible. I have\nread several posts of yours and have found them informative. Why don't you\ngive me the same chance?\n", "\nI don't think anyone is arguing that there would be no effect. But\nthere would be no _net_ _positive_ effect. You also have to \nconsider the negative side: Law abiding citizens, armed with \nfireamrs (pistols for the most part), prevent between 80,000\n(National Crime Survey) and 1,000,000 (Dr. Kleck) crimes\neach year. (Those are the extremes. Most studies find\nthe number to be 500,000 to 600,000.) About 1% of those crimes are\nhomicides, so private ownership of firearms _saves_ approximately\n5,000 lives each year. There are roughly 12,000 criminal homicides\nand fatal accidents involving guns each year. For there to \nbe any net benefit, you would have to show that gun control measures\nwould disarm over 40% of the criminals currently using guns.\nThat would be very hard to do: According the the federal BATF,\nonly 8% of criminals buy their guns over the counter. Since\ngun control laws, by their very nature, only effect legal\nsales, such a law would remove all the benefits of armed,\nlaw-abiding citizens while having only a minimal effect on\narmed criminals (who, by and large, get their guns illegally.) \nThat doesn't sound like a net benefit to me.\n \n\nSince most were with licensed weapons, I assume you are not\nsupporting \"reasonable\" laws (i.e. waiting periods, background\nchecks, licenses, etc...). Since only a complete ban would \nalter the statistic you refer to, I assume that's what you\nare supporting.\n\nBy the way, 1135 people dies in 1986 from falling down stairs.\n250 accidental handgun deaths isn't significant next to \nother household accidents.\n\n\n1080 children under the age of 10 died by drowning, 69 from \ndrinking poisonous household chemicals (like Drano), 139 from\nfalls. If the real goal is to reduce the tragic, accidental\ndeaths of children, wouldn't a ban on drain cleaners be a \nbetter palce to start? (Or, perhaps, restricting ownership to\nprofessionals like plumbers?)\n\n\nWhile you might call it \"emphasis\", refering to completely two\nstatistics in the same sentence _implies_ a comparison. If it\nisn't valid, and you put the numbers together to convince people\nyou are right, the kindest thing I could call it is propaganda.", "\n\n As a data point from Tennessee, a friend of mine and a police\nofficer essentially recommends that if you can, fade away. Even if\nyou were perfectly justified you're likely in for a great deal of \nhassle. (A side note, carrying a gun concealed is a misdemeanor.)\n\n\n It's one of those \"by State\" things, pretty much. ", "\nI'm getting tired of these wimpy Liberals whining about gun control,\ntoo! Ya know, the Second Amendment says\n\n\tA well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a\n\tfree State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms,\n\tshall not be infringed.\n\nNow, notice, it says *arms*. Not guns. Arms.\n\nThe Comsymp ZOG wants you to think that it is the only legitimate\npossessor of nuclear weapons. Unconstitutional! You and I have just\nas much right to a kilogram or two of nice weapons grade plutonium as\nany cruddy little pointy headed liberal Los Alamos pinkos.\n\nSupport your right to keep and bear short range nuclear weapons. It's\na legitimate and challenging sport.\n\nAnd screw the limit.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tspl", "\n\nI never advocated \"hiding in the sand.\" I'm advocating a peaceful\nsolution while a peaceful solution is possible. Unless you want blood on\nyour hands.\n\n\nRead the above.\n\n\nI type corrected. (:-)\n\n\nEnglish revolution-> what revolution? They never had one. \nIndia-> If they could get around their religion restrictions\nMexico-> Point Taken, I forgot about this one. \nFrance-> Napoleon Bonepart would have something to say about this.\nHolland-> I didn't know they had one, won't comment because I don't know\nenough.\n\n\nActually, I consider the issue on topic. When you start gambling with\nfire crackers, sooner or later, somebody is going to lose a hand.\n\n\nFine. Exercise the right to free speech. That's great! But don't resort\nto armed violence until there's no other possibility.\n\n\nNo. I believe there are bad cops, and good cops. There are bad people,\nand good people. (And all that grey inbetween.) \n\nI have had the pleasure of knowing a police officer who did his best to\nuphold the laws he swore to defend. I have also seen what happens when\npolice power is abused.\n\nDon't generalize in either direction. It just causes problems.\n\n\nMe either. Nice can of worms, ain't it?\n", "\n\n\n\nCompared to the Second Amendment? I think it's worse.\n\nThe problem is, the devil is in the details. You know, the Brady Bill\nsounds like a \"good idea\" too, until you discover that there is NO check,\nand that the police DON'T have to allow your purchase even if you check\nout, and that you have NO recourse if they don't.\n\nAre there any loopholes here? I'm no lawyer, I can't be sure. I\nwould have never noticed the second one mentioned above in the Brady\nBill, for example.\n\nThe more words involved, the more details. What was that saying about\nAbraham Lincoln requiring 200 words to free the slaves, and the modern\nCongress requiring 3,000,000 words to describe price controls on rice?\n\n\nThat only works with bad laws. Good laws are like good computer programs. \nQuality has to be written in from the start, not added on later.\n-- ", "103D CONGRESS \n1ST SESSION \n \n H. R. 1276 \n \nTo establish the right to obtain firearms for security, and to use firearms\n in defense of self, family, or home, and to provide for the enforcement\n of such right.\n \n ======================= \n \n IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES \n \n March 10, 1993 \n \nMr. BARTLETT introduced the following bill; which was referred to the\n Committee on the Judiciary \n \n ======================= \n \n A BILL \n \nTo establish the right to obtain firearms for security, and\n to use firearms in defense of self, family, or home, and\n to provide for the enforcement of such right.\n \n Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representa-\n tives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,\n \n SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.\n \n This Act may be cited as the \"Citizens' Self-Defense\n Act of 1993\". \n \n SEC. 2. RIGHT TO OBTAIN FIREARMS FOR SECURITY, AND\n TO USE FIREARMS IN DEFENSE OF SELF,\n FAMILY, OR HOME; ENFORCEMENT.\n \n (a) ESTABLISHMENT OF RIGHT. -- A person not pro-\n hibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm shall have\n the right to obtain firearms for security, and to use fire-\n arms in defense of self, family, or home.\n \n (b) FIREARM DEFINED. -- As used in subsection (a),\n the term \"firearm\" means a --\n \n (1) shotgun (as defined in section 921(a)(5) of\n title 18, United States Code);\n\n (2) rifle (as defined in section 921(a)(7) of such\n title); or\n\n (3) handgun (as defined in section 10 of Public\n law 99-408).\n\n (c) ENFORCEMENT OF RIGHT. --\n\n (1) IN GENERAL. -- A person whose right under\n subsection (a) is violated in any manner may bring\n an action in any United States district court against\n the United States, any State, or any person for\n damages, injunctive relief, and such other relief as\n the court deems appropriate.\n\n (2) AUTHORITY TO AWARD A REASONABLE AT-\n TORNEY'S FEE. -- In an action brought under para-\n graph (1), the court, in its discretion, may allow the\n prevailing party, other than a State, a reasonable\n attorney's fee as part of the costs.\n\n (d) STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS. -- An action may not\n be brought under subsection (c)(1) after the 5-year period\n that begins with the date the violation described therein\n is discovered.\n\n------------------------ (end of HR 1276) ------------------------\n\n\nWell, this sounds good to me. The key is Section (2)(c)(2), which\nwill effectively open up the Federal court system to all the folks\nwho can't afford to adopt an Attorney with whom to fight city hall.\nAll of you who've been saying \"hey, isn't that illegal?\" could just\ngo hire your own Attorneys on a pay-if-you-win (\"contingency fee\")\nbasis, and sue the bums ... :-)\n\nWhat you can do now:\n\n(1) Write your Representative, and ask them to co-sponsor HR 1276.\n\n(2) Write Representative Roscoe Bartlett, the sponsor --\n\n Representative Roscoe Bartlett\n 312 Cannon House Office Building\n Washington, D.C. 20515\n\n -- to tell him who your own Representative is, and that you've\n asked them to join him as a co-sponsor of HR 1276.\n\n(3) Contact Gun Owners of America --\n\n Gun Owners of America\n 8001 Forbes Place\n Springfield, Virginia 22151\n\n -- which has committed to lobby on behalf of HR 1276.\n\n(4) For those of us with a RealJob (TM), find out how to reach\n Representative Bartlett's campaign fund (I'm working on it)\n and toss in a few bucks. You can bet your bippy that he's\n going to be one of the HCI \"targets\" in the next election,\n which isn't that far away (1994).", "*****************************************************************\n* *\n* MONSTER RALLY!! *\n* == For the Right to Own and Carry Weapons == *\n* *\n* TOMORROW, Sunday, April 18, 1993, from 1:00 to 3:30 p.m., *\n* the Denver LIBERTARIAN PARTY will sponsor a rally *\n* AT THE STATE CAPITOL in support of *\n* the individual right to own and carry weapons. *\n* *\n* Speakers will include former Colorado deputy attorney general *\n* DAVID KOPEL, radio host KEN HAMBLIN, DLP Chair DAVID SEGAL, *\n* pistol instructor LENDA JACKSON, and novelist L. NEIL SMITH. *\n* *\n* Your presence and participation are highly welcome. For more *\n* information call David Segal at (303) 296-4059. *\n* *\n*****************************************************************\n\nCathy Smith", "One of our ASU students needs data and or a copy or an article regarding\n accidents, injury or death to \"children\" (articles which state the age\n limits of \"children\") relating to firearms for a sociology report.\n\n We have a copy of the long Edgar A. Suter, M.D. article and but we can't find\n the Paul Blackman (NRA) \"expose'\".\n\n Any articles (or sections thereof) which deal with comparisons over time,\n locations, age groups, other reasons for accidents, injury or death, with\n percentages would be welcome.\n\n Please send same to our I.D. and node.", "\n\nWhy don't you call the City and ask? Oak Park also has an illegal handgun\nban as well, but does allow those with a \"collectors FFL\" to possess\n(\"collectible?\") handguns.\n\n\nProbably a fine in practical terms.\n\n\nIt wouldn't impede your defense at all. There was an actual incident\nin Oak Park where a gas station owner engaged in a shootout with a\nhandgun; the grand jury decided not to presecute. On the other hand,\na black man used an illegally owned handgun in Oak Park to defend\nhimself, and the Village tried to make an example out of him. An NRA\nDirector who lived there made a stink about this, and it was decided\nnot to charge the guy. Of course, pissing off anti-gun police thugs\nhas it's own drawbacks, like when the Oak Park Police Chief came to his\nhouse, and told him: \"this is stepping over the line; this could get\ndangerous for you.\" Whereupon the few black Oak Park police officers\nwatched over his house to ensure that the white anti-gun police chief\nand his anti-gun cronies wouldn't f*ck with him, his home or family.\n\n\nL.V. Cipriani states that the \"Any other weapon\" category is allowed,\nbut the exact relationship between an Ithaca Auto-burgular, which I\nbelieve is in the \"Any other weapon\" category and a chopped barrel\nH&K HK-94 (Class 3 for sure) is not clear to me...\n\n\nIn your dreams, buddy. As long as Democrats reign in Chicago, Illinois\nresidents will always be disarmed and helpless in the streets. Politicians\nget around this by provisions in the law that allow them to carry\nconcealed weapons. Voters in Chicago are too stupid to vote these a**holes\nout of office; because the Dems are always in power, the Illinois \nSupreme Court is always tilted to the Democratic Party's views on guns.\n[All candidates supported by political consultant David Axelrod are\nanti-gun, which explains anti-RKBA Crook County States Attorney \nJack(ass) O'Malley being a so-called \"Republican.\"]", "In <1993Apr19.221331.26203@pony.Ingres.COM>, garrett@Ingres.COM sez:\n[re Michael Friedman and Phil Ronzone]\n\nTry asking Michael whether he still thinks the M-16 \"is one of the\nmost beautiful machines around.\" Or ask Phil if he still claims that\nthe Due Process and Equal Protection clauses of the 14th amendment\napply to the federal government. The responses should be as\nenlightening as the recent name-calling, and about as relevant.\n\n-- \nThey told me you had gone totally insane, and that your methods were unsound.", "\nThere was an interesting column on the editorial page of the Dallas\nMorning News on Saturday by Walter Williams, who I believe is a\nprofessor at Georgetown (I wonder if he knows of Dorothy \"you're not in\nKansas anymore\" Denning). The article was titled \"Government slowly\neroding our liberties\", and in it he tells a story attributed to the\nlate Leonard Read who\n\n explained that if you wanted to take liberty away from\n Americans, you had to know how to cook a frog. Mr. Read\n said you can't cook a frog by boiling a pot of water and\n then throwing the frog in. His reflexes are so quick that\n as soon as his feet touch the water, he will leap away.\n You must put the frog in a pot of cold water and heat it\n up bit by bit. By the time the frog realizes he's being\n cooked, it is too late. It is the same with Americans.\n If anyone tried to take our freedoms all at once, we\n would naturally rebel and suppress the tyrant. But as\n with successful frog cooking, our liberties can be taken\n a little bit at a time.\n\nThe last line of the article says, \"It's not too late for us, but the\nwater is getting pretty warm.\" I'd have toagree that it's warm and the\nClipper is keeping the temperature on an upward course.\n\nNOTE: followups redirected to alt.privacy.clipper\n", "\n Two questions: When was this, and do you have the relevant\nnumbers. (Please note, this is *not* in any way an indication I don't\nbelieve you or that you're not correct, but when the drop occured is\nrelevant.)\n \n\n The primary objection (beyond ones based on the ideal of\nRKBA that it is simply not something the government should do) is\nthat it makes guns a play-thing and tool of the rich and connected.\nIt discriminates against the poor.\n\n Is self-defense considered appropriate, and if so, under what\nconditions? (Are you allowed, for instance to get a gun for protection\nif you're going to be carrying a very large sum of money on a regular\nbasis or have been threatened.)\n\n\n This has been suggested in the U.S., and generally supported among\ngun owners. What many object to is that many, if not most, proposals\ncontain a sort of \"gotcha\" clause which allows an arbitrary denial, even\nif you qualify in every way.\n\n\n At this point, it should be pointed out that in general\na driver's licence in the U.S. is for the most part nothing like its\nEuropean counterpart. I understand getting one is far more difficult\nthere than here. In the U.S. it's a joke. \n\n But my usual objection is that you're discussing two different\nthings. For instance, in the U.S. a driver's license is a permit\nto operate a motor vehicle on a public road. It is not necessary\nto own one, or to operate it on private property. That is, the\nability to require driving permits is generally considered to arise\nfrom the government's legitimate power to enact reasonable regulations\nfor behavior on public lands. A permit to own an automobile, for instance,\nwhich is far closer an analogy, would be a much harder thing to get\npast legally, since it wouldn't be based on making regulations on public\nproperty, but in restricting activity on private property. \n\n\n This varies *widely*. (One thing I think Europeans have\na difficult time with is that the U.S. has fifty unique jurisdictions,\nwhere the laws from one state to another can be as radically different\nas from one country in Europe to another).\n\n Some places allow open carry of both guns and knives. Some allow\nconcealed. Some prohibit both, or allow one or the other. And it can\nbe either a state or local restriciton. \n\n\n The question must be asked: Is the right of *this* individual\naffecting the rights of this *other* individual. What we usually\nget is that the rights of this *group* (meaning some individuals within\nthis group, here defined as \"people who own guns,\") are adversely affecting \nthe rights of some other group. \n\n If for instance, \"Bob\" were using his gun to attack \"Steve,\" you'd\nhave a point. But essentially what we're discussing is that becuase\nsome person who qualifies as a member of the group \"people who own\nguns\" then some third person, perhaps in another *time zone* is told\nthat their being a member of that group is taking away somebody else's\nrights. It's like trying to punish all newspapers for the libel commited\nby one.\n\n\n The issue is crime, violence, and murder. The question is to\nwhat extent guns and gun legislation impact those.\n\n\n Of course not. It would be nice if we didn't have to fear that\nother people might get it into their twisted little minds to hurt us.\nBut currently we don't have that option. Nor do I expect we will.\n\n\n No state does. In any case, there's a limit to which the state\nmay enforce it's \"wisdom\" on me. Freedom in general is an unwise\nconcept. If you pre-emptively restrict everything which might be\n\"unwise\" then freedom becomes a meaningless concept.\n \n\n I'll raise my hand against driver's licenses. As currently\nimplemented they're a waste of time and little more than revanue\ngeneration for the State and ignored by a startling number of\ndrivers. It does not guarantee a level of skill any higher than is\nnecessary to get your car on the road and get yourself or somebody\nelse killed, or a knowledge of traffic laws beyond what any ten year\nold will have picked up riding around in his parents car.\n\n But, as I mentioned, they're two different things.\n", "\n\n\n So could the defenders in the Alamo. You're clearly missing the\n point here. Typically, I might add.\n\n If it were me, I doubt that *I* would have come out.\n\n BATF show up, start shooting at me, etc. Then they paint me\n a child-molesting murdering fanatic, call up TANKS, hundreds\n of automatic-armed goons. Restrict press access to two miles\n away. ", "\n\nThough David Sternlight pushes the envelope of credibility by claiming that\ntalk.politics.guns is not the place to discuss guns, or the meaning of the\nSecond Amendment, it seems he would rather post to millions of people out \nof relative ignorance of the subject than to follow the currently active \nthreads discussing EXACTLY this topic which at least explore the fallacies \nof his erroneous claim, and at most explode them.\n\nBasic fact #1, Mr. Sternlight: The RIGHT described is a \"right of the people\nto keep and bear arms;\" not a \"right of the people to form a militia,\" a\n\"right of a militia to keep and bear arms,\" or a \"right of well-regulated\npeople to keep and bear arms.\" This should be apparent from a simple\nreading of the sentence.\n\nFor the other arguments, I suggest you check out the thread, \"Some more\nabout gun control,\" playing now in an alt.politics.usa.constitution\nnear you.\n-- ", " ^^^^^^^\n \nYou can't spell. There is no question about it.\n\n \nWe must be reading different public opinion polls. I agree that the\nmisguided public would like to see assault weapons banned (mainly because\nthey are being lied to by the media about the frequency of their use\nin violent crime ... ~1%), but if public opinion were so dead-set\nagainst the RKBA you can bet that idiots like Metzenbaum and Schumer\nwould be seeing their foolish bills getting passed through Congress\na LOT easier than they are. And as governments go broke and can no\nlonger protect their citizens you can bet that the American people\nwill start to really appreciate the usefulness of firearms. Contrary \nto what you might think, time is probably on OUR side, not YOURS.\n\n \nYeah, right. Don't hold your breath. My condolences on the discovery\nof uncomfortable resilience in your mammary glands, but this has nothing\nto do with the issue at hand.\n\n... ridiculous tripe deleted ...\n \n \nYeah, the liberal press doesn't like us much, but you can't really\nexpect coherent thought from them anyway. Their opinions are based\nmore on a desire to appear politically correct than on facts (which\nare generously provided by the FBI, if they'd bother to put on their\nBirkenstocks and go to the library to read them). Most of my friends\nare anti-gun, and without exception NONE of them bases his/her opinions\non facts. They would rather believe (despite all evidence to the\ncontrary) that disarming law-abiding citizens would make the world\nmore civilized, when all it really does is make us all sheep. They \nwould rather wallow in their pitiful liberal white guilt about how\nsociety has driven the criminal to rob, rape, and murder. They \nsupport spending millions of public dollars protecting the rights of scum\nwho have already demonstrated that they have no regard for society\nor its laws. They ignore the fact that areas with the strictest gun\ncontrol (NYC,DC) have the worst crime and areas with little gun\ncontrol (VT,NH,ID) have very little crime in comparison. But they\nhave to ignore this because otherwise they would need to confront\nthe fact that law-abiding citizens who own guns are not the ones that\nare causing most of the trouble in society. Oh no, we certainly can't\naccept that! But I guess I have faith that when crime starts making\nsignificant inroads into their neighborhoods and starts directly\nhurting them and their families, they will probably whistle a different\ntune. They just better hope it isn't too late then.\n\n \nHmmm. I wasn't expecting company tonight. I might be able to whip\nup a quick cheese and cracker plate, but they should probably bring\ntheir own drinks. Do I have time to vacuum the rug?\n\n\nI'm glad you ended the posting here. Your medication seems to have\nworn off ...\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------\nLee Gaucher NRA | My opinions.\ngaucher@sam.cchem.berkeley.edu | No one else's.", "fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary @ University of Colorado, Boulder):\n\n \n These stats are invalid; we're talking BACKCOUNTRY. These stats for\n rapes/assaults/deaths do not represent the backcountry singularly; the\n great majority represent urban incidents. You should have pointed this out.", "\nAnd you shouldn't, as the matches kill more kids. So why are you bleating\nabout guns?\n\n\nIt may be tired, but it is true.\n\n\nNo, that's not right either. People who have both easy access and the\ndesire to kill, kill people. Considering that people who have the\ndesire to kill turn that into easy access .... (Haven't you folks\nlearned anything from either Prohibition or the war on drugs?)\n\nIf you don't affect the desire, you're wasting your time, not to\nmention the other costs incurred.\n\n\nGood for them. I note that the TM folks make the same argument. If\nyou'll pay their expesnses ($21 million for a reasonable size city),\nthey promise to meditate away all crime, disease, etc. At least\nthey're not promising to jail me if I don't go along with their little\nplan - they're going to just sit in a room and fly, leaving me alone.\n\n\nAh, but we have evaluated gun control using before-after and it\ndoesn't work to reduce crime. What is the point? We can't claim that\nit is symbolic, as people do get jailed.\n\n\nNo, they're essentially saying \"we hope this will keep you from\nnoticing that we're not doing anything useful\". Pissing away\nresources isn't \"caring\".\n\n\nNope, you'll merely be ignored, as Wright, Rossi, and Daly were after\nfinishing \"Under the Gun\". They were supposed to prove that gun\ncontrol worked, so ....\n\n\nSo, who gassed them? Given their previous experience with thugs who\nthrew grenades before yelling \"we're from the govt and we're here to\nhelp you\", would a rational person think that the feds had their best\ninterests at heart? Would you \"know\" that the gas was \"non-lethal\"?\n\n-andy", "Misinterpretation, though it should be a crime in itself, is what\nUnited States lawyers use to make their bread and butter.\n\n In Manchester, CT a few years ago, a small company wanted to run a\ngame system galled \"LaserGames,\" similar in many aspects to Photon\n(tm). Three lawyers and about a hundred citizens found an ancient law\nin Manchester's books which clearly from context was designed to\nprohibit travelling carnivals by enumerating the features of a carnival\nwhich they felt at the time made the prohibition obvious. Among these\nthings was \"shooting galleries,\" which is what the lawyers for the\nopposition to LaserGames wanted to harp upon. The judge took the two\nwords from this law, completely out of context, and ruled that\nLaserGames could not operate in Manchester.\n\n Keep in mind that most travelling carnivals use projectile weapons in\ntheir shooting galleries, and not light beams. Clearly from context,\nLaserGames got shafted, but if the two words are applied, their denial\nof operating permission was justified.\n\n If I had the text of the law I'd post it, but I'm afraid I don't\nremember it all well enough to even try. That little bit with the two\nwords stuck well, though.", "\n\n\nAnd I'm sure that is a great comfort to the widows and children of\nthose stabbed, beaten and burned to death. The real question is,\n\"Did the crime rate in England go down, after they enacted \ngun control laws?\" If you look at the rates before and after their\nfirst such law in 1920, you will see no effect.", "\n\n\nKilled by handgun, or killed? If I'm dead, I don't much care if it\nwas by being shot or stabbed to death.\n\n\n\n\n\nI don't think you can get an accurate indicator of how safe England is\ncompared to Switzerland by concentrating only on handgun murders and \ncompletely ignoring murders by other weapons, not to mention the rate of\nother violent crimes. If there are more guns in circulation, if follows\nthat more people will be killed with them 'cause they are available to\nthe person intent on committing a crime _regardless_ of whether they\nhave to do it with a gun, knife, or bare hands. \n\nThe gun control lobby doesn't seem to understand this point. If people\nare intent on committing a crime, they will do it with whatever means\nare available to them. ", "\n\nAbsolutely, unless you are in the U.S. Then the cager will pull a gun\nand blow you away.", "OK... quick scenario... you're at home, not bothering anybody... next thing you\nknow, somebody comes crashing in the upstairs window and you hear an explosion.\nYou see that this individual has a submachinegun, and that more similarly armed\nindividuals are rushing your front door. Will you a) defend yourself and family\nagainst this attack b) realize \"oh, only the BATF would enter like that, so I \nbetter surrender\" or c) roll over and let whoever is attacking your home do\nwhat they would like? You have chosen a), and discover that the people you \ndefended yourself against are federal agents, who now are camped outside your\ndoor waiting for you to surrender. You have learned that they intend to \ncharge you with murder, and are further defaming your name, while claiming that\nyou can safely surrender at any time. Then they start using psychological \nwarfare techniques against you, while still claiming that you can safely give up\nand will receive a fair trial. Some weeks into this standoff, you are still\nholding out, when they begin a new ploy to induce your surrender, namely using\ntear gas to annoy you, and ramming your home with tanks. Yet they claim that\nyou can safely surrender at any time. While you patiently wait out this latest\nround of attacks, your house catches fire and the bales of hay you were using as\ncover spread the fire rapidly through the house, and you try to escape through\nthe fortifications you had raised for your own defense and the rubble created\nby the tanks. Only 9 of your followers make it.\n\nI am not claiming that the above scenario is accurate. I am disagreeing with\nthe notion that it is their own fault for dying because they refused to \nsurrender to agents of the Federal government after another federal agency\ncommitted an armed assault of their home on the basis of a flimsily concocted\nsearch warrant. \n\nLook at how the Texas Rangers view the BATF. Look at the FBI statements\nregarding the BATF actions. From all apparent sources, the FBI blundered\ntrying to clean up the mess made by the BATF, resulting in an accidental fire\nwhich killed most of the BD's who were still in the compound, and are now \nplaying CYA. The BATF committed an illegal assault, obtained the use of \nTexas NG resources with fabricated allegations, and compounded their abuses\nby accusing the BD's of crimes outside their jurisdiction once they had been\nheld off in their assault.\n", "\nSaying \"hopefully the effect of policy X will be Y\" is *much* different\nfrom saying \"hopefully if there is any effect of policy X it will be Y.\"\nHere you've made both statements.\nIf the former describes a reasonably-likely outcome of policy X, then\nperhaps policy X is worthy of consideration - but the latter statement\nis not something to base policy decisions on!\n\n\nAccording to groups like the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence (formerly\nthe National Coalition to Ban Handguns - interesting name change, don't you\nthink?) who include murder and suicide by firearms in the \"leading causes of\nunintentional death) figures but *don't* include murder and suicide by other\nmeans as causes of unintentional death. Can't you see past the bullshit?\n\n\nCertainly accidental deaths by any cause are serious things - but the\nanti-gun groups insist over and over again that accidental death by\nfirearms is a *stastically serious problem*, and even if you don't use\nthese deaths as a justification for gun control, these groups do. I'm\nsorry if I jumped to conclusions about your reason for mentioning\naccidental deaths due to firearms being something that warranted concern,\nbut in light of your statement that you are a staunch supporter of gun\ncontrol measures, I think the conclusion was a reasonable one.\nThe fact remains that tragic though individual accidental gun deaths may\nbe, they are *not* a serious problem statistically speaking.\n\n\nSorry if it wasn't clear to me. I thought you were waffling on your view\nof buyback programs with the talk of symbolic offerings and hopefully\npreventing accidents and heat-of-passion shootings. I have to disagree on\nall these counts; I can't understand how a buying guns from people who\naren't intending to misuse them (obviously those who want to use guns to\ncommit crimes aren't going to turn them in) could be construed as a\npositive way for police to respond to \"interpersonal violence.\"\n\n\nWhat, the people who publish figures saying that as many children commit\nsuicide by HANDGUNS ALONE each year as the FBI says commit suicide by ALL\nMETHODS per year? Who do you think I should believe? The people who call\neveryone up to age 24 \"children\" when they're screaming about the \"carnage\nof our nation's children\" being caused by handguns?\n\n\nAh, yes, the agency that considers accidental shootings of children to be\nsuch a statistical problem that a stated objective in the Healthy People\n2000 document is to \"enact laws in 50 states requiring manufacturers of\nhandguns to make the handguns more difficult to fire, minimizing the\nlikelihood of accidental or intentional dscharge by children?\" The\nagency that funded the \"study\" of DC which pronounced that the DC gun ban\nhad saved X lives (yes, they actually gave us a number) on the basis of\na look at the *number* of shootings rather than the *rate* of shootings?\nIt wasn't their fault that the population of DC dropped in their \"post law\"\nperiod...\n\n\n\nOkay, I'll concede I no longer have the numbers I once read on these. I'll\nretract my dispute of your numbers. However, I would be greatly interested\nin seeing how CPHV and CDC came up with these numbers.\n\n\nWhat's this got to do with anything? Hell, when *I* was in elementary\nschool I came home to an empty house with guns in it. Why is this a\nproblem? I didn't touch the guns - I had been taught not to. I had also\nbeen taught not to mess with the gasoline in the garage, the fuse box, the\ncar, the knives, the oven, and the tools. The problem is not the guns,\nit's the parents!!!\n\n\nAnd what are these states doing with the kids they find with guns?\nNOTHING. No criminal prosecution, no expulsion, in most cases not even\nsuspension. They take the gun, slap the kids on the wrist, say \"ain't it\nawful,\" and go on as if everything's back to normal. What's wrong with\nthis picture?\n\n\nI don't think Koresh was the Messiah, either... but isn't it obvious that\nif he believed the forces of evil were come to destroy him, then he\nbelieved the children were much safer inside the compound? I didn't say\nhe was sane... just that he behaved in a pretty rational manner given what\nhe thought was going on. He thought he had them in the one place where\nharm *wouldn't* come to them.\n\n\nLet's see *you* try to find the exits, unbarricade them, and flee a fire\nwhen you've been kept awake for most of 50 days by loudspeakers and subjected\nto six hours of tanks knocking in your walls and tear gas assault.", "\nWhat about guns with non-lethal bullets, like rubber or plastic bullets. Would\nthose work very well in stopping an attack?", "\nAnd how come we don't pass out bullet-proof vests in school\nto promote safe gun usage? ", "Posted by Cathy Smith for L. Neil Smith\n\n LETTER TO A LIBERAL COLLEAGUE\n\n[AUTHOR'S NOTE: \"Adrian\" -- name changed to protect the guilty -- \nand the author are science fiction novelists who once worked with \nthe same editor at a famous New York publishing house.]\n\nDear Adrian: \n\nI'm way behind schedule on my current book again, so this reply to \nyour note -- criticizing the recent magazine interview I gave and \ngenerally attacking gun ownership -- will necessarily consist \nmostly of assertions you're free to believe (or not) I can back \nwith evidence and logic I've neither time nor energy to present \nnow. I've written fully on this topic before and will again in the \nfuture. When I do, I'll make sure you get copies. \n\nThere are many arguments I might make, from the futility and danger \nof delegating self-defense to the police (see Don Kates in the Jan. \n10, 1985 WALL STREET JOURNAL) to the real effect of prohibition, \nshifting consumers from newly-outlawed handguns or semiautomatic \nrifles to items like sawed-off shotguns or homemade bombs, but I'll \nlimit myself here to commenting on the newspaper clipping you sent \nwith your note. \n\nFirst, the freedom to own and carry the weapon of your choice is a \nnatural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, civil, and \nConstitutional right -- subject neither to the democratic process \nnor to arguments grounded in social utility. \n\nSecond, publication of some latter-day \"scientific study\" doesn't \nalter the fact that the gun prohibitionists I discussed in my \ninterview -- annoying you so much in the process -- were lying. \n\nThird, the freedom to own and carry the weapon of your choice is a \nnatural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, civil, and \nConstitutional right -- subject neither to the democratic process \nnor to arguments grounded in social utility. \n\nFourth, as often happens with these things, the \"study\" doesn't \nsupport the gun prohibitionists' original numerical contentions \nanyway, but simply adds a new layer of spurious claims to an older \nbody of lies, omissions, and distortions. \n\nFifth, the freedom to own and carry the weapon of your choice is a \nnatural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, civil, and \nConstitutional right -- subject neither to the democratic process \nnor to arguments grounded in social utility. \n\nSixth, the fact that gun prohibitionists have been caught lying on \ncountless occasions (Carl Bakal, author of NO RIGHT TO KEEP AND \nBEAR ARMS, even confessed to it publicly) makes the value of this \npresent \"study\" dubious, to say the least. \n\nSeventh, the freedom to own and carry the weapon of your choice is \na natural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, civil, \nand Constitutional right -- subject neither to the democratic \nprocess nor to arguments grounded in social utility. \n\nEighth, given your own lifelong service as a federal bureaucrat \n(not to mention the cynical sophistication of your fiction), you \nshould be better aware than most people how \"progress\" -- in \ndesigning \"studies\" to prove whatever you want -- outstrips our \nability to collect meaningful data. A case in point we might agree \non is the fact that it took another kind of prohibitionist 20 or 30 \nyears to create \"studies\" \"proving\" that pornography causes crime. \nMore naive (and probably more honest) efforts in the 50s and 60s \nclearly indicate the contrary. \n\nNinth, the freedom to own and carry the weapon of your choice is a \nnatural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, civil, and \nConstitutional right -- subject neither to the democratic process \nnor to arguments grounded in social utility. \n\nTenth, another reason to doubt all such \"studies\" is that human \nbehavior (as the Austrian School of economics demonstrates) is far\ntoo complex and unpredictable to be meaningfully quantified. The \nattempt to do so -- and then create public policy based on the \nresulting pseudo-information -- is wrecking our civilization. \n\nEleventh, the freedom to own and carry the weapon of your choice is \na natural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, civil, \nand Constitutional right -- subject neither to the democratic \nprocess nor to arguments grounded in social utility. \n\nTwelfth, the \"study\" is also worthless because it incorporates \nfigures for suicide, which is not necessarily a tragedy but \nbasically another individual right, sometimes with ancillary social \nbenefits. If anything, perhaps suicide INTERVENTION should be a \ncriminal offense. \n\nThirteenth and finally, the National Rifle Association officials \nquoted in the article, whatever their shortcomings (and they are \nmany), are correct in this instance: the \"study\" is meaningless \nbecause the freedom to own and carry the weapon of your choice is a \nnatural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, civil, and \nConstitutional right -- subject neither to the democratic process \nnor to arguments grounded in social utility. \n\nAnd because of that, Adrian, even if the \"study\" were valid, it \nwouldn't deter me from a lifelong personal objective of seeing that \nanyone can own any weapon he or she prefers and carry it however, \nwhenever, and wherever he or she desires without asking anybody's \npermission. In this I'm ably assisted by gun prohibitionists \nthemselves, whose yawping invariably moves previously unarmed \npeople to go out and buy their first gun \"while they still can\". \nBefore the '68 Gun Control Act, most of the \"shooting fraternity\" \nviewed handguns (incorrectly, as it turned out) as inaccurate, \nineffective toys. There probably weren't six million of them in \nthe whole country. Now, thanks to Kennedy, Metzenbaum, the Bradys, \nand their ilk -- AMERICA'S GREATEST SPORTING GOODS SALES TEAM -- we \nprobably manufacture at least that many every year.\n\nThe fascinating datum is that Handgun Control, et al. are perfectly \naware of this -- so I guess you'll have to ask them yourself what \ntheir real motives are. \n\nLook: gun-making isn't an arcane or difficult art (and by the way, \nit's easier to make a fully automatic weapon than a semiautomatic; \nthe fact that I can still obtain my own weapon of preference, the \nself-loading pistol, is the only thing which keeps me from pursuing \nthis further). Even if it were difficult, there are already a \nquarter billion firearms in America, with an estimated \"half life\" \nof 1000 years -- possibly more for stainless steel. Guns are gonna \nbe around a long time, Adrian, whether you like it or not.\n\nAs for me, to paraphrase Elmer Keith, regardless of what the law \nprovides or any court decides, I'm always going to be armed. And I \nwill always work to see that others are, as well. The bad news is \nthat there are thousands more -- perhaps even hundreds of thousands \n-- where I come from. We can't be stopped by passing laws, we can \nonly be forced to arm ourselves and others secretly and -- given \nboth the practical and alleged differences between full automatics \nand semiautomatics -- perhaps more efficiently. \n\nSo what's the point? \n\nL. Neil Smith\nAuthor: THE PROBABILITY BROACH, THE CRYSTAL EMPIRE, HENRY MARTYN, \nand (forthcoming) PALLAS\nLEVER ACTION BBS (303) 493-6674, FIDOnet: 1:306/31.4\nLibertarian Second Amendment Caucus\nNRA Life Member", "\nFaith and intelligence tell me that when a druggie breaks into my house at\nnight with a knife to kill me for the $2 in my wallet, a .357 is considerably\nmore persuasive than having devotions with him.\n", "\nI am sure that Mike is correct on this point. I am also pretty sure that\nadministering \"truth serum\" would be ruled a violation of your right\nnot to incriminate yourself. But, what is the salient difference?\nBoth drawing blood and injecting \"truth serum\" incapacitate you for\na while, but do no permanent damage. Is it simply that we have come to\nview one as acceptable, while the other is viewed as a fundamental\nviolation of one's rights? If this is the case, how do we expand the\nprotections of the 5th amendment to incorporate new technologies without\nthe results being a hodgepodge of different judges personal opinions?", "I have also heard about HCI claiming thant anyone they get an address\nfrom is a member. If this is the case their membership rolls are\ngrossly inflated and we should not call them and give them a name\nand address to add to their already false rolls. Perhaps\nif you could get a copy of their existing membership, then pretend to\nbe an existing member, do that several thousand times, you could\nhurt HCI. But names are power. Remeber the NRA uses the fact\nthat it has 3 million paid members in order to flex its muscles.\n\nPerhaps politicians don't realize the lying tactics of HCI, wait a\nminute, HCI learned it from politicians....", "\n Well, if we're going to discuss being a police officer in\nAmerica today. \n\n The FBI lists 132 police officers killed (feloniously and\naccidentally) in 1990. That's apparently everybody at all levels.\n\nYear Officers killed Rate/100,000 police officers\n1982 164* 47.6\n1983 152** 40.2\n1984 147 39.4\n1985 148*** 37.9\n1986 133 34.9\n1987 148 39.0\n1988 155**** 41.9\n1989 145***** 38.1\n1990 132 32.0\n\n\n* Includes one officer in Mariana Islands\n** Includes one officer each in Guam and Mariana Islands\n*** Includes one officer in Guam and two in foreign locations\n**** Includes one officer in American Samoas and two in foreign countries\n***** Includes one officer in Guam and one Federal officer killed in\nPeru\n\n\n God, I love the information age! :-) \n", "It's worse than you show it.....look for Janet REno and others to\nlink the words \"child abuse\" and \"p[rivate stores of guns\" from\nnow on out.", "/ iftccu:talk.politics.guns / mikey@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Strider) / 8:51 pm Apr 12, 1993 /\n\n\nI've been watching this knife verses gun bit for a while now, (even\ncontributed a few comments) but this stuff \"I'd rather face a knife than\na gun\" has GOT to come from ignorance! I used to think pretty much the\nsame thing, then I got 'educated.'\n\nPeople do not as a rule understand how deadly knives can be, or how\nquickly you can be killed with one. Most people don't understand that\nit takes less than an inch of penetration in some areas to cause quick\n(within a minute or so) death.\n\nThe death rates from handguns and knives are within a few percentage\npoints of each other. Many people not realizing how deadly knives are\n'try their luck' and thus more get injured by knives. A gun is deadly\nonly in a single direction and it's only advantage is that it is a\nremote control weapon. A contact weapon such as a knife controls a\nspherical area 7 to 10 feet in diameter.\n\nMost people have never seen knife wounds, aside from slicing a finger by\naccident. From 21 feet or so, a knife is very nearly an even match for\na holstered gun in experienced hands, even if the knife wielder has only\nmoderate skill. From inside 10 feet or so, a knife is a match for a\nDRAWN gun. A knife is utterly silent, it never jams and never runs out\nof ammunition. It is limited only by the speed, dexterity skill and\nability of it's wielder. Criminals in general are young, fast and\nstrong. It's interesting to note that the patterned slashing attacks\nused by many martial artists remarkably resemble the wild uncontrolled\nslashing attacks of novices. I've talked to several well trained\nmartial artists. They have unanimously agreed that if they ever go up\nagainst a knife they simply plan on being cut, hopefully not as bad as\nthe attacker.\n\nPracticing with firearms requires facilities and equipment. Practicing\nwith knives requires only a small area and something to simulate a\nknife, say a popsicle stick or tooth brush. Criminals practice their\nknife attacks in prison.\n\nIf you have not trained against knives with a firearm and do not realize\nthese facts the first inkling you will have that something is wrong is\nthe knife ripping through your throat, or in the case of an experienced\nattacker, parts of your body falling off onto the ground. A 60 year old\nman with arthritis can close that 7 yard distance and gut you in about\none and a half seconds. Dennis Tueller with a broken leg in a walking\ncast managed it in two. I've seen people close that distance and strike\nin 1 second. I'm old, over weight and slow. I can do it in 1.3\nseconds. I've seen morgue footage of people killed with edged weapons\nthat you would not believe. (How about a single stab wound to the chest\nwith a TABLE FORK! In this case the attacker used the HANDLE, not the\npointed end.)\n\nAdd to this the 'fact' that hand gun 'stopping' power is largely a myth.\nExcept in the case of a central nervous system shot, or a round that\ndestroys the skeletal structure, it takes anywhere from 3 to twelve\nseconds for a bullet wound to 'take effect.'\n\nThis is true of even heart shots. There is the case of the police woman\nin L.A., the first recorded survivor of a .357 shot to the heart. That\nlady not only killed her attacker, but chased him down to do it! All\nfour of her shots, fired after SHE had been shot, struck the perp. Atta\ngirl! The bullet entered her on a downward angle, went through the apex\nof her heart, down through the diaphragm, clipped her liver and\ndestroyed her spleen. It then exited her back leaving a tennis ball\nsized hole. She died about six times on the operating table, but was\nout of the hospital in 15 days and was back on full duty in eight\nmonths! She was off duty at the time and not wearing her vest. She was\non her way home so happened to have her gun. No, she doesn't think\ncivilians should have the same rights. Sigh.\n\nThe moral of the story is that even if you DO manage to shoot a knife\nattacker, you'd better be planning on doing some dodging. A good\nalternative is to shoot for and break the pelvis. People can often walk\n(a little) on broken legs but a broken pelvis will nearly always anchor\nthem. Many firearms schools recommend pelvis shots against contact\nweapons. The target is as large as the traditional 'center of mass' and\nis more reliable to STOP somebody with a contact weapon, assuming a\ncaliber powerful enough to 'do the job.' Hot .38's on up will usually\ndo this.\n\nRemember folks, the idea isn't to 'take em with you' but for you to live\nand them to fail, whatever the consequences for them. This the reason\n'killing them' isn't our goal, or in many cases even good enough to keep\nus alive.\n\nI don't want to face a violent attack of any sort. Knowing what I now\nknow, I can't rightly say I'd rather face a knife than an gun. It would\nhave to depend on the attacker, and if I could pick and choose, I\nWOULDN'T BE THERE. This is really the bottom line. Criminals do not\nfear the law. Criminals do not fear the weapon. They fear the citizen\nbehind the weapon that has shown the resolution and determination to do\nwhatever it takes.", "\nUnfortunately, elections can, and are, bought. Promise the voters money, and\nthey will vote for you.\n\n\nSame here. Convicted felons may not legally purchase firearms.\n\n\nThat you know of.\n\nWhile I lived in the DBR, a gang robbed a joint US Army/Bundewehr armoury and\ngot several hundred M-16s, ammunition, handguns and some explosives. When I\nleft two years later, there were no clues.\n\n\nWho uses them is the problem. Crime, in the U.S., is \"no big deal\" if you are\nthe criminal. How about 5 years for murder. Credit for time served (in jail,\nwaiting for trial) and you are out in 12 months, worst case. If we would put\ncriminals, especially violent ones, in the slam for true sentences, crime would\ndrop. Instead, we reward them for being good and let them out early, very\nearly.\n\n\nSerbs, Croats and Muslims have been killing each other almost since before the\ninvention of guns. Old women are throwing stones at UN trucks. This is a\nhatred that goes beyond reason.\n\nYes, the problem is the user. Question back (since you are one of the rational\nones): If all gun crime were to stop, would you support dropping all gun\ncontrols?\n\n\nThey did not believe, from experience, that the \"police\" (including National\nGuard) could/would protect them. Unless you want to argue that a human being\ndoes not have a right to protect him/herself, they did the right thing. What\nwould you suggest as a defense against a mob throwing bottles and rocks, and\nalso likely armed with stolen firearms?\n\n\nCriminals would move to Scandinavia??? :-) The average criminal would look for\na less hazardous job, and the rest would likely be buried at county expense.\n\n\nPersonally, I criticize the fools who send money to the IRA to \"make Ireland\nfree\". Of course, this is the last thing the IRA wants, because they lose\npower if England pulls out. But that's for another group.\n\n\nThe U.S. has roughly 20 times the major sporting events as the U.K.. How many\nriots did we have at sporting events last year (off the playing field)? \nHooligan is a word never used when reffering to sports fans here. I guess\nthat's where the different cultures thing comes in.\n\n\nYes. The question is, is the problem one of too many guns (mostly from the\narmy) or not enough (nonSerbians can not defend themselves.\n\n\nBut disarming responsible gun owners is not the solution. Yet, that is exactly\nwhat HCI is proposing.", "/ iftccu:talk.politics.guns / jrm@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu / 6:26 am Apr 14, 1993 /\n\n\n\nI suppose that depends on how you define 'vast' majority....\n\nYou are correct about 'majority.' Somewhere between 1 out of three and \none out of 10 will at some period in their lives experience a violent \nassault. The risk is generally higher than emergency medical problems\nlike heart attack and stroke.\n\n'Vast' is probably too loose a term. With approximately 1,000,000 Americans\nusing firearms each year, over a 30 year period we get (roughly, since some\nmay have to do this more than once) 30 MILLION Americans with experience in \nusing firearms for self defense. 30/250 yields 12 percent of the population.\n(Yes, I know that is a REAL rough estimate. We're closer to 270 million now, \nbut many of these are minors and should be included etc, thus the percentage\nif anything is low.)\n\nAt any rate, most minority groups in this range are not usually referred \nto as 'tiny' minorities, so I don't see how the other part of the group \ncan be referred to as the 'vast' majority. A little more work might \nsupport a 'simple' majority of Americans never use, own or display a firearm.\n\nCertainly when you are talking about OWNERSHIP you are wrong. Nearly half\nof your fellow citizens own one or more firearms. \n\n\nPlease provide a list of other means that are as effective. Then you might \nconvince your local police departments to switch. Good luck.", "\n\nIn Oregon your must get a background check (ie fingerprints, full slap), 15\nday waiting period. That is unless you have a CCW then all requirments\nhave been meet.", "[Note, Ohio legislation unlike Federal legislation, shows the entire\nlaw as it would be changed by the legislation. These parts are in\nALL CAPITALS, the rest (i.e., current law is in regular type)].\n\nAS INTRODUCED\n \n120TH GENERAL ASEMBLY \n \nREGULAR SESSION H. B. NO. 278\n \n1993-1994\n \nREPRESENATIVE BEATTY\n \nA BILL\n\nTo amend sections2923.11, 2923.17,and 2923.20 and\nto enact section 2923.181 of the Revised Code\nto expand the defintion of dangerous ordnance to\ninclude military weapons that do not use bolt \naction, to increase the penalty for a violation\nof the prohibition against possession of\ndangerous ordnance, to prohibit any person from\nacquiring a military weapon on or after the act's\neffective date, to require the licensure of \nmilitary weapons acquired for aproper purpose\nprior to the act's effective dte, to prohibit a\nperson from importing, manufacturing, or selling\na military weapon, and to declare an emergency.\n\nBE IT ENACTED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE STATE OF OHIO:\n\nSection 1. That sections 2923.11, 2923.17 and 2923.20 be\n\namended and section 2923.181 of the Revised Code be enacted to \n\nread as follows:\n\n Sec. 2923.11. As used in section 2923.11 to 2923.24 of\nthe Revised Code:\n (A) \"deadly weapon\" means any instrument, device, or thing\ncapable of inflicting death, and designed or specially adapted\nfor use as a weapon, or possessed, carried, or used as a weapon.\n (B)(1) \"firearm\" means any deadly weapon capable of\nexpelling or propelling one or more projectiles by the action of\nan explosive or combustible propellant. \"firarms\" includes an\nunloaded firearm, and any firearm which is inoperable but which\ncan readily be rendered operable.\n (2) When determining whether a firearm is capable of\nexpelling or propelling one or more projectiles by the action of\nan explosive or combustible propellant, the trier of fact may\nrely upon circumstancial evidence, including, but not limited to,\nthe representations and actions of the individual exercising\ncontrol over the firearm.\n (C) \"Handgun\" means any firearm designed to be fired while \nheld in one hand.\n (D) \"Semi-automatic firearm\" means any firearm designed or\nspecially adapted to fire a single cartridge and automatically\nchamber a suceeding cartridge ready to fire, with a single\nfunction of the trigger.\n (E) \"Automatic firearm\" means any firearm designed or\nspecially adapted to fire a succession of cartridges with a \nsingle function of the trigger. \"Automatic firearm\" also means\nany semi-automatic firearm designed or specially adapted to fire\nmore than thirty-one cartridges without reloading, other than a\nfirearm chambering only .22 caliber short, long, or long-rifle\ncartridges.\n (F) \"Sawed-off firearm\" means a shotgun with a barrel less\nthan eighteen inches long, or a rifle with a barrel less than\nsixteen inches long, or a shotgun or rifle less than twenty-six\ninches long overall.\n (G) \"Zip-gun\" means any of the following:\n (1) Any firearm of crude and extemporized manufacture;\n (2) Any device, including without limitation a starter's\npistol, not designed as a firearm, but which is specially adapted\nfor use as a firearm;\n (3) Any industrial tool, signalling device, or safety\ndevice, not designed as a firearm, but which as designed is\ncapable of use as such A FIREARM, when possessed, carried, or\nused as a firearm.\n (H) \"Explosive device\" means any device designed or\nspecially adapted to cause physical harm to persons or property\nby means of an explosion, and consisting of an explosive\nsubstance or agency and a means to detonate it. \"Explosive\ndevice\" includes without limitation any bomb, any explosive\ndemolition device, any blasting cap or detonator containing an\nexplosive charge, and any pressure vessel which has been\nknowingly tampered with or arranged so as to explode.\n (I) \"Incendiary device\" means any firebomb, and any device\ndesigned or specially adapted to cause physical harm to persons\nor property by means of fire, and consisting of an incendiary\nsubstance or agency and a means to ignite it.\n (J) \"Ballistic knife\" means a knife with a detachable\nblade that is propelled by a spring-operated mechanism.\n (K) \"Dangerous ordinance\" means any of the following,\nexcept as provided in division (L) of this section:\n (1) Any automatic or sawed-off firearms. zip-gun, or\nballistic knife;\n (2) Any explosive device or incendiary device;\n (3) Nitroglycerin, nitrocellulose, nitrostarch, PETN,\ncyclonite, TNT, picric acid, and other high explosives; amatol, \ntritonal, tetrytol, pentolite, pecretol, cyclotol, and other high\nexplosive compositions; plastic explosives; dynamite, blasting\ngelatin, gelatin dynamite, sensitized ammonium nitrate, liquid-\noxygen blasting explosives, blasting powder, and other blasting\nagents; and any other explosive substance having sufficient\nbrisance or power to be particularly suitable for use as a\nmilitary explosive, or for use in mining, quarrying, excavating,\nor demolitions;\n (4) Any firearm, rocket launcher, mortar, artillery piece\ngrenade, mine, bomb, torpedo, or similar weapon, designed and\nmanufactured for military purposes, and the ammunition for that\nweapon;\n (5) Any firearm muffler or silencer;\n (6) ANY MILITARY WEAPON;\n (7) ANY DETACHABLE MAGAZINE, MAGAZINE, DRUM, BELT, FEED \nSTRIP, OR SIMILAR DEVICE THAT HAS A CAPACITY OF, OR THAT READILY\nCAN BE RESTORED OR CONVERTED TO ACCEPT, MORE THAN FIFTEEN ROUNDS \nOF AMMUNITION; \n (8) Any combination of parts that is intended by the owner\nfor use in converting any firearm or other device into a \ndangerous ordinance.\n (L) \"Dangerous ordnance\" does not include any of the\nfollowing:\n (1) Any firearm, including a military weapon and the\nammunition for that weapon, and regardless of its actual \nage, which employs a percussion cap or other obsolete ignition \nsystem or which is designed and safe for use only with black\npowder, and\n (2) Any pistol, rifle, or shotgun, designed or suitable\nfor sporting purposes, UNLESS THE FIREARM IS EITHER OF THE\nFOLLOWING;\n (a) A military weapon as issued or as modified, and the\nammunition for that weapon;\n (b) AN automatic or sawed-off firearm.\n (3) Any cannon or other artilery piece which,\nregardless of its actual age, is of a type in accepted use prior \nto 1887, has no mechanical, hydraulic, pneumatic, or other system\nfor absorbing recoil and returning the tube into battery without\ndisplacing the carriage, and is designed and safe for use only\nwith black powder;\n (4) Black powder, priming quills, and percussion caps\npossessed and lawfully used to fire a cannon of a type defined in\ndivision (L) (3) of this section during displays, celebrations,\norganized matches or shoots, and target practice, and smokeless\nand black powder, primers, and percussion caps possed and\nlawfully used as a propellant or ignition device in small-arms or\nsmall-arms ammunition;\n (5) Dangerous ordinance which is inoperable or inert and\ncannot readily be rendered operable or activated, and which is\nkept as a trophy, souvenir, curio, or museum piece.\n (6) Any device which is expressly excepted from the\ndefinition of a destructive device pursuant to the \"Gun Control\nAct of 1968,\" 82 Stat. 1213, 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(4), as amended, and\nregulations issued under that act.\n (M) \"MILITARY WEAPON' MEANS ANY OF THE FOLLOWING;\n (1) ANY FIREARM THAT ORIGINALLY WAS MANUFACTURED FOR \nMILITARY USE, OR A COPY OF ANY SUCH FIREARM, IF THE FIREARM IS\nNOT A BOLT ACTION FIREARM;\n (2) ANY MODEL OF ANY OF THE FOLLOWING FIREARMS THAT IS A\nSEMI-AUTOMATIC FIREARM AND IS A RIFLE OR ANY MODEL OF ANY COPY OF\nANY OF THE FOLLOWING FIREARMS THAT IS A SEMI-AUTOMATIC FIREARM\nAND IS A RIFLE;\n (a) ARMALITE AR-180;\n (b) AUTO-ORDNANCE THOMPSON MODELS 1927A1 AND M-1;\n (c) AVTOMAT KALASHNIKOV;\n (d) POLY TECH AK-47S;\n (e) CHINA SPORTS AK-47 BULLPUP;\n (f) MITCHELL AK-47 AND M-76\n (g) BARRETT LIGHT-FIFTY MODEL 82A1;\n (h) BARETTA AR-70;\n (i) BUSHMASTER AUTO RIFLE;\n (j) CALICO M900 AND M-100\n (k) COLT AR-15\n (l) COMMANDO ARMS CARBINE, MARK 111, MARK 45, AND MARK 9;\n (m) UNIVERSAL 5000 CARBINE, ENFORCER;\n (n) AMERICAN ARMS ARM-1 AND AKY 39;\n (o) DAEWOO MAX-1 AND MAX-2;\n (p) FABRIQUE NATIONALE FN/FAL, FN/LAR. AND FN/FNC;\n (q) FAMAS MAS 223;\n (r) FEATHER AT-9;\n (s) FEDERAL KC-900 AND XC-450\n (t) GALIL AR AND ARM;\n (u) GONCZ HIGH-TECH CARBINE;\n (v) HECKLER AND KOCH HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, AND PSG-1;\n (w) MANDALL TAC-1 CARBINE\n (x) RUGER MINI 14/SF FOLDING STOCK MODEL;\n (y) SIG 57 AMT AND 500 SERIES;\n (z) SPRINGFIELD ARMORY SAR-48, G-3, BM-59 ALPINE, AND M1A\n \nCARBINE;\n (aa) STERLING MK-6 AND MARK 7;\n (bb) STEYR AUG;\n (cc) UZI CARBINE AND MINI-CARBINE;\n (dd) VALMET M-62S, M-76, M-78, AND M82 BULLPUP CARBINE;\n (ee) WEAVER ARMS NIGHTHAWK;\n (ff) MILITARY M14 AND MILITARY M1 CARBINE .30;\n (gg) SPRINGFIELD ARMORY M1A ASSAULT;\n (hh) THOMPSON 27A-5 WITH DRUM MAGAZINE;\n (ii) PLAINFIELD COMMANDO UNIVERSE 5000 CARBINE;\n (jj) COBRAY M-11 WITH OR WITHOUT SILENCER;\n (kk) SPECTRE AUTO CARBINE;\n (ll) SWD COBRAY;\n (mm) ARMI JAGER AP-74 AND AP-74 COMMANDO;\n (nn) ARMSCORP OF AMERICA ISRAELI FN-FAL;\n (oo) CLAYCO SKS CARBINE; \n (pp) DRAGUNOV SNIPER;\n (qq) EMF AP-74;\n (rr) IVER JOHNSON PM30 P PARATROOPER;\n (ss) NORINCO SKS;\n (tt) PARTISAN AVENGER;\n (uu) SIGARMS SG 550 SP AND SG 551 SP;\n (vv) SQUIRES BINGHAM M 16;\n (ww) WILKINSON \"TERRY\" CARBINE.\n\n (3) ANY MODEL OF ANY OF THE FOLLOWING FIREARMS THAT IS A\nSEMI-AUTOMATIC FIREARM AND IS A PISTOL OR ANY MODEL OF ANY COPY\nOF ANY OF THE FOLLOWING FIREARMS THAT IS A SEMI-AUTOMATIC FIREARM\nAND IS A PISTOL:\n\n (a) BUSHMASTER AUTO PISTOL;\n (b) CALICO 100-P AUTO PISTOL;\n (c) EBCIN NJ-IV, MP-9, AND MP-45;\n (d) FEATHER MINI-AT;\n (e) GONCZ HIGH TECH PISTOL'\n (f) HOLMES MP-83 AND MP-22;\n (g) INTRATEC TEC-9 AND SCORPION .22;\n (h) IVER JOHNSON ENFORCER;\n (i) INGRAM MAC-10 AND MAC-11;\n (j) MITCHELL ARMS SPECTRE AUTO;\n (k) SCARAB SKORPION;\n (l) STERLING MK-7;\n (m) UZI PISTOL;\n (n) UNIVERSAL ENFORCER;\n (o) WILKINSON \"LINDA\" AUTO PISTOL.\n \n (4) ANY MODEL OF ANY OF THE FOLLOWING FIREARMS THAT IS A\nSEMI-AUTOMATIC FIREARM AND IS A SHOTGUN OR ANY MODEL OF ANY COPY\nOF ANY OF THE FOLLOWING FIREARMS THAT IS A SEMI-AUTOMATIC FIREARM\nAND IS A SHOTGUN:\n \n (a) FRANCHI SPAS-12 AND LAW-12;\n (b) STRIKER 12 AND STREET SWEEPER;\n (c) BENELLI M1 SUPER 90;\n (d) MOSSBERG 500 BULLPUP;\n (e) USAS-12 AUTO SHOTGUN.\n \n Sec. 2923.17. (A)(1) No person shall knowingly acquire,\nhave, OR carry any dangerous ordnance.\n \n (2) NO PERSON SHALL KNOWINGLY USE ANY DANGEROUS ORDNANCE.\n (B) This section does not apply to ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:\n (1) Officers, agents, or employees of this or any other\nstate or the United States, members of the armed forces of the\nUnited States or the organized militia of this or any other\nstate, and law enforcement officers, to the extent that any such\nperson is authorized to acquire, have, carry, or use dangerous\nordnance and is acting within the scope of his duties;\n (2) Importers, manufacturers, dealers, and users of\nexplosives, having a license or user permit issued and in effect\npursuant to the \"Organized Crime Control Act of 1970,\" 84 Stat.\n952, 18 U.S.C. 843, and any amendments or additions TO or\nreenactments OF THAT ACT, with respect to explosives and\nexplosive devices lawfully acquired, possessed, carried, or used\nunder the laws of this state and applicable federal law;\n (3) Importers, manufactuers, and dealers having a license\nto deal in destructive devices or their ammunition, issued and in\neffect pursuant to the \"Gun Control Act of 1968,\" 82 Stat. 1213.\n18 U.S.C. 923 and any amendments or additions TO or\nreenactments OF THAT ACT, with respect to dangerous\nordnance lawfully acquired, possessed, carried, or used under the\nlaws of this state and applicable federal law;\n (4) Persons to whom surplus ordnance has been sold,\nloaned, or given by the secretary of the army pursuant to 70A\nStat. 62 and 263, 10 U.S.C. 4684, 4685, 4686, and any\namendments or additions TO or reenactments OF THAT ACT, with\nrespect to dangerous ordnance when lawfully possessed and used\nfor the purpose specified in THAT section;\n (5) Owners of dangerous ordnance registered in the\nnational firearms registration and transfer record pursuant to\nthe act of October 22, 1968, 82 Stat.1229, 26 U.S.C. 5841, and\nany amendments or additions TO or reenactments OF, and\nregulations issued UNDER THE ACT.\n (6) Carriers, warehousemen, and others engaged in the\nbusiness of transporting or storing goods for hire, with respect\nto dangerous ordnance lawfully transported or stored in the usual\ncourse of their business and in compliance with the laws of this\nstate and applicable federal law;\n (7) The holders of a license or temporary permit issued\nand in effect pursuant to section 2923.18 of the Revised Code, \nwith respect to dangerous ordnance lawfully acquired, possessed,\ncarried, or used for the purposes and in the manner specified in\nTHE license or permit.\n (C) DIVISION (A)(1) OF THIS SECTION DOES NOT APPLY TO THE\nACQUISITION, HAVING, OR CARRYING OF DANGEROUS ORDNANCE THAT IS A\nMILITARY WEAPON IF BOTH OF THE FOLLOWING APPLY:\n (1) THE PERSON WHO ACQUIRES, HAS, OR CARRIES THE DANGEROUS\nORDNANCE IN QUESTION ACQUIRED IT BEFORE THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF\nTHIS AMENDMENT AS A COLLECTOR'S ITEM OR FOR A LEGITIMATE\nRESEARCH, SCIENTIFIC, EDUCATIONAL, INDUSTRIAL, OR OTHER PROPER\nPURPOSE;\n (2) NO LATER THAN THE CLOSE OF BUSINESS ON THE SEVENTH DAY\nAFTER THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS AMENDMENT, THE PERSON WHO\nACQUIRED THE DANGEROUS ORDNANCE IN QUESTION IN ACCORDANCE WITH\nDIVISION (C)(1) OF THIS SECTION SUBMITTED AN APPLICATION PURSUANT\nTO SECTION 2923.181 OF THE REVISED CODE FOR A LICENSE TO HAVE AND\nCARRY IT AND THE APPLICATION HAS NOT BEEN DENIED OR A VALID\nLICENSE HAS BEEN ISSUED TO THE PERSON.\n (D) DIVISIONS (A)(1) AND (2) OF THIS SECTION DO NOT APPLY \nTO THE ACQUISITION, HAVING, CARRYING, OR USING OF ANY DANGEROUS\nORDNANCE DESCRIBED IN DIVISION (k)(7) OF SECTION 2923.11 OF THE\nREVISED CODE THAT WAS ACQUIRED PRIOR TO THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF\nTHIS AMENDMENT.\n (E) Whoever violates this section is quilty of unlawful\npossession of dangerous ordnance, a AN AGGRAVATED felony of the\nFIRST degree.\n Sec. 2923.181. (A) ANY PERSON WHO ACQUIRED A MILITARY \nWEAPON BEFORE THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS SECTION SHALL FILE A\nWRITTEN APPLICATION FOR A LICENSE TO HAVE AND CARRY THE MILITARY\nWEAPON WITH THE SHERIFF OF THE COUNTY OR SAFETY DIRECTOR OR\nPOLICE CHIEF OF THE MUNICIPAL CORPORATION WHERE THE APPLICANT\nRESIDES OR HAS HIS PRINCIPAL PLACE OF BUSINESS. THE APPLICATION\nSHALL BE FILED NO LATER THAN THE CLOSE OF BUSINESS ON THE SEVENTH\nDAY AFTER THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS SECTION AND SHALL BE\nACCOMPANIED BY A FILING FEE OF FIFTY DOLLARS. THE PERSON SHALL\nFILE A SEPARATE APPLICATION AND PAY A SEPARATE FILING FEE FOR\nEACH MILITARY WEAPON THAT HE HAS OR INTENDS TO CARRY. THE\nAPPLICATION SHALL CONTAIN ALL OF THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION:\n (1) THE NAME, AGE, ADDRESS, OCCUPATION, AND BUSINESS\nADDRESS OF THE APPLICANT, IF THE APPLICANT IS A NATURAL PERSON,\nOR THE NAME, ADDRESS, AND PRINCIPAL PLACE OF BUSINESS OF THE\nAPPLICANT, IF THE APPLICANT IS A CORPORATION;\n (2) A DESCRIPTION OF THE MILITARY WEAPON FOR WHICH A\nLICENSE IS REQUESTED, INCLUDING THE SERIAL NUMBER AND ALL\nIDENTIFICATION MARKS;\n (3) A STATEMENT OF THE PURPOSE FOR WHICH THE MILITARY\nWEAPON WAS ACQUIRED AND FOR WHICH IT IS TO BE POSSESSED, CARRIED,\nOR USED;\n (4) ANY OTHER INFORMATION THAT THE ISSUING AUTHORITY MAY\nREQUIRE IN GIVING EFFECT TO THIS SECTION;\n (5) THE OATH OF THE APPLICANT THAT THE INFORMATION ON THE\nAPPLICATION IS TRUE.\n (B)(1) NO LATER THAN THE CLOSE OF BUSINESS ON THE\nFOURTEENTH DAY AFTER AN APPLICATION FOR A LICENSE TO HAVE AND\nCARRY A MILITARY WEAPON HAS BEEN FILED UNDER DIVISION (A) OF THIS\nSECTION, THE ISSUING AUTHORITY SHALL EITHER APPROVE THE\nAPPLICATION AND ISSUE A LICENSE TO THE APPLICANT OR DENY THE\nAPPLICATION AND SEND A LETTER OF DENIAL BY ORDINARY MAIL TO THE\nAPPLICANT. AFTER CONDUCTING ANY NECESSARY INVESTIGATION, THE\nISSUING AUTHORITY SHALL ISSUE A LICENSE TO AN APPLICANT WHOM IT\nDETERMINES SATISFIES THE FOLLOWING CRITERIA:\n (a) THE APPLICANT IS TWENTY-ONE YEARS OF AGE OR OLDER, IF\nTHE APPLICANT IS A NATURAL PERSON;\n (b) IT APPEARS THAT THE APPLICANT WILL POSSESS AND CARRY\nTHE MILITARY WEAPON AS A COLLECTOR'S ITEM OR FOR A LEGITIMATE,\nSCIENTIFIC, EDUCATIONAL, INDUSTRIAL, OR OTHER PROPER PURPOSE;\n (c) IT APPEARS THAT THE APPLICANT HAS SUFFICIENT\nCOMPETENCE TO HAVE AND CARRY THE MILITARY WEAPON AND THAT PROPER\nPRECAUTIONS WILL BE TAKEN TO ENSURE THE SECURITY OF THE MILITARY\nWEAPON AND THE SAFETY OF PERSONS AND PROPERTY;\n (d) THE APPLICANT OTHERSWISE IS NOT PROHIBITED BY LAW FROM\nHAVING OR CARRYING DANGEROUS ORDNANCE.\n (2) A LICENSE ISSUED PURSUANT TO DIVISION (B)(1) OF THIS\nSECTION SHALL BE VALID FOR ONE YEAR AFTER THE DATE OF ITS\nISSUANCE. THE LICENSE SHALL BE RENEWED PURSUANT TO DIVISION \n(C) OF THIS SECTION.\n (C)(1) EXCEPT AS PROVIDED IN DIVISION (C)(3) OF THIS\nSECTION, ANY PERSON WHO IS ISSUED A LICENSE UNDER DIVISION (B)(1)\nOF THIS SECTION SHALL RENEW THE LICENSE BY FILING AN APPLICATION\nFOR RENEWAL BY REGULAR MAIL WITH THE SHERIFF OF THE COUNTY OR THE\nSAFETY DIRECTOR OR POLICE CHIEF OF THE MUNICIPAL CORPORATION WHO\nWAS THE ISSUING AUTHORITY OF THE LICENSE. AN APPLICATION FOR\nRENEWAL SHALL BE FILED ANNUALLY NO LATER THAN ONE YEAR AFTER THE\nDATE ON WHICH THE LICENSE WAS ISSUED OR LAST RENEWED.\n (2) EACH SHERIFF AND EACH SAFETY DIRECTOR AND PEACE OFFICER\nOF A MUNICIPAL CORPORATION SHALL MAKE AVAILABLE APPLICATIONS FOR\nTHE RENEWAL OF A LICENSE ISSUED UNDER DIVISION (B)(1) OF THIS\nSECTION. IN THE APPLICATION THE APPLICANT, UNDER OATH, SHALL\nUPDATE THE INFORMATION SUBMITTED IN THE PREVIOUS APPLICATION FOR\nA LICENSE OR THE RENEWAL OF A LICENSE.\n THE APPLICATION FOR THE RENEWAL OF A LICENSE SHALL BE\nACCOMPANIED BY A FEE OF FIVE DOLLARS. THE APPLICANT SHALL FILE A\nSEPERATE APPLICATION FOR RENEWAL AND PAY A SEPERATE RENEWAL FEE\nFOR EACH MILITARY WEAPON THAT HE INTENDS TO CONTINUE TO HAVE AND\nCARRY.\n (3) A PERSON WHO HAS CHANGED HIS RESIDENCE OR PRINCIPAL\nPLACE OF BUSINESS TO A LOCATION OUTSIDE OF THE JURISDICTION OF\nTHE ISSUING AUTHORITY SUBSEQUENT TO THE ISSUANCE OR RENEWAL OF A\nLICENSE UNDER THIS SECTION SHALL RENEW HIS LICENSE BY FILING AN\nAPPLICATION IN THE MANNER PRESCRIBED BY DIVISION (A) OF THIS\nSECTION WITH THE SHERIFF OF THE COUNTY OR THE SAFETY DIRECTOR OR\nPOLICE CHIEF OF THE MUNICIPAL CORPORATION WHERE HE THEN RESIDES\nOR HAS HIS PRINCIPAL PLACE OF BUSINESS. WHEN MAKING AN\nAPPLICATION TO RENEW A LICENSE AFTER A CHANGE IN RESIDENCE OR\nPLACE OF BUSINESS, THE APPLICANT SHALL GIVE NOTICE OF THE CHANGE\nOF ADDRESS BY REGULAR MAIL TO THE ORIGINAL ISSUING AUTHORITY FOR\nTHE LICENSE AND THE STATE FIRE MARSHALL ON NOTIFICATION FORMS\nPRESCRIBED BY THE SHERIFF, SAFETY DIRECTOR, OR POLICE CHIEF FROM\nWHOM HE SEEKS RENEWAL.\n (D) A LICENSE TO HAVE AND CARRY A MILITARY WEAPON SHALL\nIDENTIFY THE PERSON TO WHOM IT IS ISSUED, IDENTIFY THE MILITARY\nWEAPON FOR WHICH IT IS ISSUED, STATE THE PURPOSE IDENTIFIED IN\nDIVISION (B)(1)(b) OF THIS SECTION FOR WHICH THE MILITARY WEAPON\nWILL BE POSSESSED AND CARRIED, STATE ITS EXPIRATION DATE, AND\nLIST ALL RESTRICTIONS ON THE HAVING OR CARRYING OF THE MILITARY\nWEAPON AS PRESCRIBED BY THE LAWS OF THIS STATE AND APPLICABLE\nFEDERAL LAW.\n (E) ANY PERSON WHO IS ISSUED A LICENSE TO HAVE AND CARRY A \nMILITARY WEAPON UNDER THIS SECTION AND WHO CHANGES HIS ADDRESS\nSHALL NOTIFY THE ISSUING AUTHORITY OF THE CHANGE OF HIS ADDRESS\nNO LATER THAN NINETY DAYS AFTER THE CHANGE HAS OCCURRED.\n (F) THE ISSUING AUTHORITY SHALL FORWARD TO THE STATE FIRE\nMARSHALL A COPY OF EACH LICENSE ISSUED OR RENEWED UNDER THIS\nSECTION. THE STATE FIRE MARSHALL SHALL KEEP A PERMANENT FILE OF\nALL LICENSES ISSUED OR RENEWED UNDER THIS SECTION.\n (G) THE ISSUING AUTHORITY SHALL CAUSE EACH APPLICATION FEE\nOF FIFTY DOLLARS, FILED UNDER DIVISION (A) OF THIS SECTION, TO BE\nDEPOSITED IN THE GENERAL FUND OF THE COUNTY OR MUNCIPAL\nCORPORATION SERVED BY THE ISSUING AUTHORITY. THE ISSUING\nAUTHORITY SHALL CAUSE TWO DOLLARS AND FIFTY CENTS OF EACH RENEWAL\nFEE, FILED UNDER DIVISION (C) OF THIS SECTION, TO BE DEPOSITED IN\nTHE GENERAL FUND OF THE COUNTY OR MUNICIPAL CORPORATION SERVED BY\nTHE ISSUING AUTHORITY AND SHALL SEND TWO DOLLARS AND FIFTY CENTS\nOF EACH RENEWAL FEE TO THE TREASURER OF STATE FOR DEPOSIT IN THE\nSTATE TREASURY TO THE CREDIT OF THE GENERAL REVENUE FUND.\n (H) WHOEVER VIOLATES DIVISION (A) OF THIS SECTION IS\nGUILTY OF FAILING TO APPLY FOR THE LICENSURE OF A MILITARY\nWEAPON, A FELONY OF THE FOURTH DEGREE. WHOEVER VIOLATES DIVISION\n(C) OF THIS SECTION IS GUILTY OF FAILING TO APPLY FOR RENEWAL OF\nA LICENSE FOR A MILITARY WEAPON, A MISDEMEANOR OF THE FIRST\nDEGREE.\n (I) A MILITARY WEAPON THAT IS NOT LICENSED AS REQUIRED BY\nTHIS SECTION IS CONTRABAND, AS DEFINED IN SECTION 2901.01 OF THE\nREVISED CODE AND IS SUBJECT TO FORFEITURE UNDER SECTION 2933.43\nOF THE REVISED CODE.\n SEC. 2933.20. (A) No person shall DO ANY OF THE\nFOLLOWING:\n (1) IMPORT, MANUFACTURE, POSSESS FOR SALE, SELL, OR\nFURNISH TO ANY PERSON ANY MILITARY WEAPON;\n (2) Recklessly sell, lend, give, or furnish any firearm to\nany person prohibited by section 2923.13 or 2923.15 of the\nRevised Code from acquiring or using any firearm, or recklessly\nsell, lend, give, or furnish any dangerous ordnance to any person\nprohibited by section 2923.13, 2923.15, or 2923.17 of the Revised\nCode from acquiring or using any dangerous ordnance;\n (3) Possess any firearm or dangerous ordnance with\npurpose to dispose of it in violation of division (A) of this\nsection;\n (4) Manufacture, possess for sale, sell, or furnish to\nany person other than a law enforcement agency for authorized use\nin police work, any brass knuckles, cestus, billy, blackjack,\nsandbag, switchblade knife, springblade knife, gravity knife, or\nsimilar weapon;\n (5) When transferring any dangerous ordnance to\nanother, negligently fail to require the transferes to exhibit\nANY identification, license, or permit showing him to be\nauthorized to acquire dangerous ordnance pursuant to section\n2923.17 of the Revised Code, or negligently fail to take a\ncomplete record of the transaction and forthwith forward a copy\nof THE record to the sheriff of the county or safety\ndirector or police chief of the municipality where the\ntransaction takes place;\n (6) Knowingly fail to report to law enforcement\nauthorities forthwith the loss or theft of any firearm or\ndangerous ordnance in such person's possession or under his\ncontrol.\n (b) Whoever violates this section is quilty of unlawful\ntransactions in weapons. Violation of division (A)(1) OF THIS\nSECTION IS AN AGGRAVATED FELONY OF THE FIRST DEGREE. VIOLATION\nOF DIVISION (A)(2) OR (3) Oof this section is a felony of the\nthird degree. Violation of division (A) (4) OR (5) of this\nsection is a misdemeanor of the second degree. Violation of\ndivision (6) of this section is a midemeanor of the fourth\ndegree.\n Section 2. That existing section 2923.11, 2923.17 and\n2923.20 of the Revised Code are hereby repealed.\n Section 3. This act is hereby declared to be an emergency\nmeasure necessary for the immediate preservation of the public\npeace, health, and safety. The reason for this necessity is that\nwith immediate action, this act will prohibit the continued\npurchase, possession, and use of military weapons and as a result\nwill ameliorate a substantial threat of death and injury to the\npublic caused by the misuse of improper use of these weapons.\nTherefore, this act shall go into immediate effect.", "\nI think its an attempt to show lives_saved v lives_lost; all other\n gun related crimes don't result in lives_lost. On the other hand,\n its impossible to know how many of the successful self defenses \n prevented lives from being lost. In other words, the lives_lost\n is pretty clear [its the homicide and non negligent manslaughter\n number], while the lives saved is some percentage of the successful \n self defenses. Clearly that percentage doesn't have to be real \n high to show that lives_saved > lives_lost.\n\nAs a semi-related point, check out Kleck's \"Point Blank\". I believe\n it goes into some related areas; it also is well written and informative. \n\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\nDoes anyone know the particulars on the Senate File 303?\nDoes this bill allow or deny off-duty police from carrying concealed?", "\nHowever, don't forget that the police in Chicago can carry just about\nanything they want except for the Glock, which is not approved for\ncarry (Guess they figure all cops are like the Police Chief of Winnetka,\nwho happened to let off a stray round of 9mm. This is the same anti-gun\npolice chief that wanted full-auto Uzis for his patrol cars...).\n\nPerhaps in the judgement of the majority of Chicago's finest, a close-to-\n100% reliable weapon like a revolver is preferable to a 99.99% reliable\nautomatic. I note that in Germany, where certainly the 9mm semi-auto\nhandgun is king, some of the more elite police types want revolvers.\n\nI don't think the issue is cost, because Chicago police certainly make\non the order of at least $40K/year. \n\nYour presumption of \"disadvantage\" I think is not borne out by the\nexperiences of New York City's cops; there the cops usually come out\non top with their standard .38 Spl revolvers.\n\nI've seen S&Ws, Rugers and Beretta 9mms in addition to the revolvers\ncarried by Chicago cops.... in the past, I've seen .45 M1911s; others\nhave seen Browning Hi-Powers...", "\nI suspect that you think that this is less lethal than the typical\n\"assault weapon\". You are wrong. Compared to what most criminals use, a\n9mm with military ammo (FMJs), or a military rifle (use is extremely\nrare), .223 or 7.62mm with military ammo (FMJs), the .32 H&R magnum with\n\"civie\" bullets is more lethal. Most of the arms which criminals (and\nthe military) use are among the least lethal arms in existance.", "\n\tRemember me, Tom? I hope you'll respond, and I seem to\nbe a Voice of Reason or some such (I've been recieving fan mail,\nso naturally my ego is somehwat inflated of late), and hope to\nmake a few points here.\n\n\n\tAnd our argument is that you cannot remove them from the people\nwho need restricting and not remove them from the people who don't. A\nfairly simple problem, given our size and numbers. Do you agree? We\nall believe criminals, particularly violent criminals, should not have\nfirearms. The problem is making a law that does this without trodding\nupon the rights of the vast majority. Nobody here seems to be able to\ndo it, and I doubt anybody in Norway can either. Thus, we are left with\na philosophical difference: does the safety of a few justify restricting\nthe many? We say \"no,\" while others say \"yes.\"\n\n\n\tCan you provide a method that cannot be abused? I doubt it.\n\n\n\tOf course. This is not in contention. What is in contention\nis how much one has to pay.\n\n\n\tIt is this \"giving a little\" that makes Americans wary...\nWe have seen this argument before. You might remember how a\nChamberlain \"gave a little\" to a particular fascist/short asshole,\nand how such \"appeasement\" worked. While it might work in some\ninstances, it doesn't work in others, and since we cannot predict\nthe future we must be cautious in using actions that have a\nhistory of failure.\n\n\n\tCars are not essential in Norway any more than they are in\nthe USA. I'm willing to bet that you have neighbors that would be\nwilling to drive you anywhere you wanted to go for a price. Thus,\ncars are not essential for your transportation. However, the\narguments presented show that, since cars are used to kill far more\npeople than guns in the USA, it makes much more sense to restrict\ncars than it does guns. How one defines \"essential\" often depends\nupon what one is willing to go through for that service. When we\nlook at the raw data, such comparisons are not individually weighed.\n\n\n\tThis depends upon what the populace was willing to do. As\nDesert Storm proved, even an armed populace won't just revolt even\nwhen given a chance. Still, would Hitler have done all that he did\nwith an armed populace? We have to wonder, as some of his first\nacts were to confiscate firearms. Other points in history show\nthat dictators were overthrown by arms in the hands of the populace.\nThus, we're left wondering if Hitler would have been overthrown\nor if King George was just unlucky in keeping the USA as a colony.\nOne can argue both sides; one also has to live with each action.\n\n\n\tIt is about #2, but so far all proposals to curtail #2 have\nwound up enforcing #1 as well. I only wish that \"or\" was so logical.\n\n\n\tThat was, on my part, purely in jest. I merely pointed out\nhow we were from similar backgrounds racially, but of wholly different\nbackgrounds politically. I thought this would underscore my point on\nhow our cultures were so different despite similar heritage.\n\n\n\tBATF can *only* enforce gun/tobaccco/alcohol violations. Child\nabuse is a matter for the individual states and local authorities.\n\n\n\tThat hierarchy is a paid-for feed at many sites. Most people do\nnot get it for this reason, and I suspect money, not censorship, is the\nmain reason. Do you get alt.sex* at your site? I can't read it here\nbecause of censorship and legal fears, so again our differences show.\nYou have topless sunbathing, and in the USA we can watch a murder every\nfifteen seconds and yet breasts are forbidden on television.", "\nThat's an interesting statement. There's quite a difference between\nHollywood's \"Old West\" and the real one. Yes, there were drunks,\nsaloons, mining camps, and thugs. However, as McGrath showed, the\nthugs preyed almost exclusively on one another. McGrath claims that\nthis was due to the fact that no one much cared if someone who\ninsisted on getting into a fight got his way, even if he lost, while\nthey really did care when thugs preyed on others.\n\n\nWe haven't figured out that those distinctions don't actually work.\nMachine guns have been strictly regulated since 1934. Said regulation\nis both perfect (legally owned machine guns aren't ever used\ncriminally) and a complete waste of time (the criminal use of machine\nguns hasn't change at all). The result - we're now arguing about\nguns that LOOK like machine guns, but are no different than other\nguns.\n\n-andy", "Only as far as it affects the crime rate.\n\nDid the RATE of crime fall? If not, the ban was of no use. It is the rate of \nviolent crime that matters, not the tools used. \"It's the crime, stupid!\"\n\n\nApparently that became the weapon of choice after the shotguns were banned. \nAfter that, they'll decide the car of choice is the Saab, and propose a ban on \nthat!\n\n\nYes. We still trust honest people here. For the time being.\n\n\n\n--\njmd@handheld.com", "\nAs I'm sure others will have pointed out to you by now, none of the above\nmeasures are required for you *on your own property*. You do not have to\nhave a license, your car does not have to be registered or inspected, and\nyou do not have to have insurance or safety training classes, when you own\nand operate that vehicle on your own premises. If you are going to make use\nof this dubious analogy, at least make it accurate. And by the way, in Texas\nyou can drive a car in public (with the proper credentials), but an ordinary\ncivilian can't carry a gun legally in public to save his/her life.\n\nSo I won't even consider registration, *manadatory* safety classes, or\n*manadatory* liability insurance unless I get a federal law repealing\nall local, state, and federal gun control laws which abridge the Second\nAmendment, and a non-discretionary federal weapons carry permit, good\nanywhere in the United States. Come on, you wanted the analogy.\n\n\nMike Ruff", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n.\n\n\n\n\nre. \n\nown.\n\ns.\n \nWill do! I appreciate the thoughtfullness of the Post to not be an\nintermediary for such sales. The \"Right to bear arms\" is one of the most\nmisapplied rights in our Constitution, and assault weapons go way beyond\nwhat is, or rather should be (imho), a \"natural\" right in America. Just\nask the family of that boy shot back in September - the papers are full of\nstories about a child with an assult weapon with a \"angelic face\" (Post)\nwho committed the murder without ever thinking.\n \nThis has all got to get under control. I applaud the Post for their bravery", "\n\n\n\n\n He meant the US spends more per capita on guns than Canada which isn't\nreally surprising because we were so busy protecting the western world from\nthe USSR that all other countries could slack off on their defense spending.", "\n\tDown to 170-some odd lines. We must be making progress!\nOn an ironic note, where I deleted lines Emacs continually gave me\nthe message \"Garbage collecting... Done.\" Think it's trying to\ntell me something?\n\n\n\n\tYou lurkers can join in at any time, you know! Ahhh..\nTalk.politics.guns -- the kindler, gentler newsgroup. Who would\nhave thought?\n\n\n\tI remind you of shrapnel. I consider 5' a reasonable space\nlimitation, but make no mistake a gun blowing up is a hazard to\nthose nearby, say in the next lane at the range. My point was at\nwhat distance, or level of threat, we draw the line. Is it the\nendangerment of others, so we do a 5' restriction, or the possibility\nof being shot, hence we draw a 1.5 mile restriction, or a nuke and\ndraw a 5 mile restriction? To me they al suffer from the fundamental\nflaw that they restrict based upon the instrument rather than placing\nthe responsibility for usage squarely upon the shoulders of the user.\nPerhaps Sen. Metzenbaum declaring the Barrett Light Fifty an assault\nrifle has made this more apparent to me, since the Barrett has\nonly range and acurracy going for it.\n\n\n\tI disagree, on the grounds that a house can be rebuilt much\nmore easily than my family once I have died. I assume that word\nwould get to the citizens that such an attack was planned. If this\nis not the case, the tactical and strategic implications change\nquite a bit. Personally, my home is worth, say, twenty Martians\nintent on taking over the world. My family? All of them. The\nbalancing act here is hard to judge sitting at my desk.\n\n\n\tThat seems to be the case already, given that heavy\nweapons aren't commonly owned by the citizenry. With such low\nnumbers, obviously due to cost, I don't think the superior\nweapons are going to be of great effect against a numerically\nsuperior foe. Furthermore, it is even more doubtful their training\nincludes proper tactical movements that best utilize tanks,\nwhereas the commonly rifleman is not so hampered in effectiveness.\n\n\n\tI had envisioned that the armorer, perhaps the officers\nof a select group, and the like would exercise control over the\nheavier, more complex weapons. But, if Joe Bob owns an old Sherman\ntank I certainly wouldn't ask him to give it up. Follow orders\nfrom the officers, yes. Since the expense of a tank is so large,\nthough, chances are it would be jointly purchased and should\ntherefore be jointly maintained and operated.\n\n\n\tThis I'll agree with to a point. The State having control\nover the heavy weapons should not be justification for the state\nto have them centrally located. Keep them spread out, such that\nthe ability of the State to lock them up isn't so easy. Otherwise,\nI would have to assume that State control would rest on the\nauthority of the Governor and militia officers.\n\n\n\tI'm having a hard time seeing how these heavy weapons,\nfairly few in numbers, could not be easily wielded by a few\npeople with government support. Just as you argued above that\nthe weapons should be divvied up and under democratic control\nso one side doesn't have all of them, I can't see where this\nsituation is alleviated in having the select militia holding\nall the weapons and the unorganized militia being the infantry.\nI think a better mix is called for. But, I would argue that\nthe Federal army should rely upon the select militia and the\nunorganized militia for the bulk of its infantry units.\n\n\n\tWe have to assume that there would be those who would\nside with the government-controlled forces, and if they've all\nthe equipment an infantry force 3x the size would be in trouble.\nI'd like to see that heavy stuff, say tanks, offset by the\nlocal troups having a few 105's and anti-tank weapons in their\narmory. These would be much more useful to infantry than the\ntank would be when cost and training requirements are figured in.\nI suppose I'm quibbling over what constitutes heavy equipment.\n\n\n\tSo would I, but the resources often aren't available to\noutfit local units well enough. Thus, we will certainly have to\ncall in others, and a mechanized unit carries more stuff faster\nthan anything else.\n\n\n\tPerhaps our ideas of heavy weapons are different? I think\nmain battle tanks, self-propelled artillery, and 155mm and up\nfield pieces are heavy stuff. M113 troop carriers, 2 1/2 ton\ntrucks, HumVee's, old M60 tanks, 105 Howitzers, are more the stuff\nof a mechanized infantry. Actually, this is what the Guard units\nin Iowa are currently fielding in some units.\n\n\tPerhaps it is just my innate fear of having the real heavy\nequipment under State control, with little but numbers and light\nstuff to act as a deterrent. Allowing main battle tanks to the\nstates should be balanced with anti-tank capability in the local\nranks. Similarly, local units would need to band together quickly,\nhence small and fast response means mechanized infantry. Finally,\nthe militia is more than just fighting. Equipment is needed for\nother responses. The Federal army, I'm convinced, should have a\nvery minumum of infantry, relying on the state and local militias\nfor these functions.", "\n\tOK ... a near-majority actually OWN firearms, but I will still\n\tclaim that the VAST majority never needs to use them or even\n\tthreaten anyone with them. What do they do right ... or are\n\tthey just lucky ? In either case, this means the 'average\n\tthreat level' in this country is rather low. \n \n\n\tI think you have weapons on the brain. I never said that these\n\talternative means of self-protection involved any hardware.\n\tWhy are 'good' neighborhoods 'good' ? It isn't because every\n\tperson is armed to the teeth. It is because of (1) attitude\n\tand (2) cooperation. In the 'good' neighborhoods, the residents\n\tmake themselves aware of their neighbors and notice when\n\tstrangers are lurking around. 'Good' neighborhoods form groups\n\tlike 'crime-watch' to increase this effect, and the relative\n\teffectiveness of the police. When hostiles are arrested, the\n\tgood neighbors step up and say \"THAT'S the one officer ! He\n\twas robbing Mr. Jones' house\". \n\n\tIn short, the alternative to firepower is gangs ... or at\n\tleast a benificent manifestation of that social cooperative.\n\tReplace lead with flesh ... the flesh makes a better\n\tconversationalist too and you can invite it over for a\n\tblock party. \n\n\n\tOliver North. The man is positively worshiped in many\n\tall-American 'conservative' quarters. He and Big Ron\n\tset-up a secret government and did all sorts of severely\n\tillegal deeds - the kind of stuff you and I would be doing\n\ttwenty-to-life for, yet he walks free. This BS happens all\n\tthe time. In fact, it happens so much that no one really\n\tcares anymore. 'Legitimacy' is a non-issue. Legality is\n\ta non-issue. So long as we get T-bones and our MTV, who\n\tgives a rats ass ? \n\n\n\tNo. I claimed that no one is interested in the statistical\n\taspects of the argument. Pure emotion, like the abortion issue.\n\n\n\tArgue away ... you can't win. \n", "Politicians want to eliminate private ownership of guns before the\ngeneral public starts violently resisting the tax increases needed\nto fund the federal government as an ever higher percentage of tax\nrevenue goes to pay interest on the national debt (currently 57 cents\nout of every tax dollar collected and rising).\n\n-- \nDave Feustel N9MYI ", "Recently while looking around in Traders Sporting Goods store, a very well\nstocked firearms store, I discovered a printed document that was being \ndistributed by the good folks who work there. Traders, BTW, is located in\nSan Leandro, CA.\n\nGranted, the document may be asking you and I to help out Traders, but in the\nbig scope of things, I feel that we would do all gun owners a favor by helping\nto this cause.\n\nAnyway, here it is:\n\nNEWSPAPER AD CENSORSHIP\n\nAre you letting the newspapers tell you how to live your life, what's good for\nyou, what's not, and exercise blatant censorship over what you read in their\nadvertisments?\n\nThe newspapers have now decided to censor gun ads - which is why you no longer\nsee the ads that Traders, San Leandro, has run for many years.\n\nThese ads were run for the law-abiding honest citizens who own firearms for\nsporting use or self-protection. They certainly have the right to do so, under\nthe Second Amendment Right to Bear Arms.\n\nIf you are tired of newspapers who run sex and liquor ads galor, yet refuse to\nrun legitimate gun ads, please send a letter to the editors indicating your\ndispleasure over their censorship doctrine.\n\nFollowing is a list of Bay area newspapers who censor gun ads. Perhaps you'd\nlike to send them your thoughts on this issue!\n\nOakland Tribune\t\tDaily Review\t\tAlameda Times-Star\nPOB 28883\t\tPOB 5050\t\t1516 Oak St.\nOakland, CA 94604\tHayward,94540\tAlameda, CA 94501\n\nArgus\t\t\tTri Valley Herald\tSan Leandro Times\n3850 Decoto Rd.\t\tPOB 10367\t\t161 W. Juana Ave.\nFremont, CA 94555\tPleasanton, CA 94588\tSan Leandro, CA 94577\n\nContra Costa Times\tSan Mateo Times\t\tSan Francisco Chronicle\nPOB 5088\t\tPOB 5400\t\t901 Mission St.\nWalnut Creek, CA 94596\tSan Mateo, CA 94402\tSan Francisco, CA 94103\n\nSan Fran. Independent\tSan Fran. Examiner\tSan Jose Mercury News\n1201 Evans Ave\t\t110 5th St.\t\t750 Ridder Park Dr.\nSan Fran., CA 94124\tSan Fran., CA 94103\tSan Jose, CA 95190\n\nThen there are six pages of \"facts\". I can not validate these facts, and \nthere were no sources, but many feel and sound very true. Here are the topic\nheadlines:\n\n- Big Media Snow Job\n- Blaming Firearms for Murder is Like Blaming Hospitals for Death\n- I could use the same Nazi Journalistic Technique of CBS and ABC to prove\n that Hospitals Cause Death\n- How NBC, CBS, and ABC have scammed the American people on \"gun control\"\n- American TV journalism is based on Nazi journalism\n- Why TV journalists lie\n- The Government with the help of the TV networks, has succeeded in playing\n one group against the other\n- Gun laws are unconstitutional\n- American gun laws are based on Nazi gun laws\n- The Government is trying to devide and conquer\n- The CIA wants your firearms\n\nand so on for six pages.\n\nSo now we have the media trying help put gun dealers out of business by trying\nto limit their exposure to potential customers, and preventing the customers\nfrom reading about sales of ammunition and firearms for sporting, hunting, or\nother recreational use.\n\nLet me know if you write to any of these bozos.\n\n/-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\\\n\n\n\n", "\nLet's see if I have this straight. A law is created that says \"you can not\nhave a automatic weapon\" and therefore it's ok for the government to use\nany level of force to enforce that law. Doesn't matter if the entire \npopulation of the planet is destroyed as long as that law is obeyed.", "\n\nYes, and everyone thinks as you do. No one thinks that he is going to cause\nor be involved in a fatal accident, but the likelihood is surprisingly high.\nJust because you are the man on the firing squad whose gun is shooting\nblanks does not mean that you are less guilty.\n\n\nYou mean that killing is wrong in all but one situtation? And, you should\nnote that that situation will never occur. There are always other options\nthank killing. Why don't you just say that all killing is wrong. This\nis basically what you are saying.\n\n\nAre you attempting to be condescending?\n\n\nBut, most people have found the risk to be acceptable. You are probably\nmuch more likely to die in a plane crash, or even using an electric\nblender, than you are to be executed as an innocent. I personally think\nthat the risk is acceptable, but in an ideal moral system, no such risk\nis acceptable. \"Acceptable\" is the fudge factor necessary in such an\napproximation to the ideal.", "Just saw a new commercial(?) by the NRA. It starts out with a \nbunch of politicians talking about how to get rid of crime.\nThey finally realize that they need to put criminals away\nlonger but there isn't enough jail space so they decide on another gun\nlaw.( During this whole seen there quoteing various statistics on how\neasy criminals get off ) \nIn the next seen the politician is announceing on tv how this gun law \nwill get rid of crime and there is this grungy looking guy (criminal)\nwatching him on tv just laughing his ass off.\nClassic.", "\n\n\tThat's OK -- you can mail me if you want more discussion.\n\n\n\tAround here, long-guns are proof of age and fill out the forms.\nFor pistols, nation-wide check for felonies and three days wait. The\n\"good reason\" is the difference, and one Americans tend to get annoyed\nover as we see no reason the guy with the badge is any better than us.\n\n\n\tNot when dealing with America. I can drive an 18-wheel truck\nwith no permit, no license, and at age 12 if I'm engaged in farming\nwork. Strange, that, but there is little to no problem with this.\nAgain, personal rights versus collective security.\n\n\n\tStrange that the rates would decline, since killing somebody\nis much more frowned upon than merely stealing a gun.\n\n\n\tWhy attract attention? I carry my sword openly to and from\npractice, as that is the only legal thing I can do. I also attract\na lot of attention doing this. I'd rather be lost \"in a crowd of one\"\nthan be the subject of attention while carrying a weapon. Think of\nthe word \"intimidation\" and you can see where intimidation is not\nthe preferable method for the normal citizen.\n\n\n\tAggressive towards whom? Southerners? Germans? Precisely\nwhy I think your society is less violent, weapons aside.\n\n\n\tThen the masses have the same rights as the individuals, because\neverything comes down to the individual in one instance or another. To\ndraw an analogy, Norway is involved in the EEC. The USA in involved in\nNATO. The EEC requires certain changes in your laws. NATO requires\nno such changes in USA law. These laws affect citizens, and hence\nNorway is saying Europe is more important than, say, Norwegians having\nmotorcycles that make over 100bhp. In the USA, we'd likely tell the\nEEC to get stuffed since the EEC has no business, in our eyes, in\ntelling us how much horsepower we can safely ride. While I note\nthat our own state governments often play with game with the federal\ngovernment, in essence this is a cultural difference between us.\n\n\n\tIt shouldn't. Since neither of our countries has managed to\nremove criminals from society, in America we feel (and remember we\nhave individual states that are larger than your country) that if the\npolice cannot protect us then we must do so ourselves. The criminals\nin our country are quite violent, hence we prepare for them.\n\n\n\tWe don't. E-mail me to find out just how difficult it really\nis in this country. It is easier than in yours, but theft is far\neasier than the troubles we go through to purchase over here.\n\n\n\tThey are neither. They are an option. We would never force\nyou to own guns if you lived here. We would, however, fight to keep\nthat option open to you.\n\n\n\tThen you show you are a responsible, rational user of weapons.\nWelcome to our ranks. Now, how do we teach the young people this sort\nof responsibility? Cultures seem to have a grave impact here.\n\n\tI notice you didn't use my great-grandfather's name. Well,\nhe didn't like it much either ;-)", "From article <1993Apr18.000152.2339@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu>, by jrm@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu:\n\nOnly irrational fools such as yourself are set against RKBA. There are\n*plenty* of people who support it.\n\n\nThe government will be overthrown *long* before that happens. A *huge* \nmillitia composed of all available men and women who care about their\ncountry will defeat the forces of the evil Klintonistas. The people\n*will* prevail!\n\nOh, so you think armed citizens alone can't overthrow the government?\nConsider this: do you think *all* law enforcement officials and members\nof the Armed Forces will turn against the people that they are entrusted\nto serve? Not hardly. You can count on a lot of people in the Army,\nMarines, Air Force, Navy, National Guard, police officers, and so on\njoining in the cause to defend the liberties and freedoms of American\ncitizens. COUNT ON IT! THE GOVERNMENT WILL NOT BE ABLE TO DISARM\nEVERYONE WITHOUT STARTING A CIVIL WAR!\n\n\nWrong again. People will just hide their guns so these \"officers\"\n(more like jack-booted stormtroopers) will not be able to find them.\n\n\nThey will unless they are idiots. They will realize that if they don't\nthen they will be *next* including you. Believe me if what you describe\nhappens they will be coming for *more* than guns. Disarming citizens\nwould require that everyone's cherished freedoms and liberties be\nsuspended temporarily. More likely, they'd never be restored unless the\n*people* do something about it.\n\n\n\nScott Kennedy, Brewer and Patriot", "I would like to know what restrictions there are on purchasing handguns \n(ie waiting periods, background check etc..) in the states of Nevada and \nOregon. Thanks.\n -Bill\n", "\nI suppose these illegal guns have been found? I suppose he was going to kill a\nbunch of people with them?\n--Ray Cote", ":>Hey, gang, it's not about duck hunting, or about dark alleys,\n:>it's about black-clad, helmeted and booted troops storming\n:>houses and violating civil rights under color of law. \n:>\n:>Are YOU ready to defend YOUR Constitution?\n:\n:Its also about crazy fatigue clad survivalist types blasting the \n:snot out of people who accidentally stray onto his land in the\n:name of 'self defense.'\n\nWell, the count is now at least 86 dead by government action. How many\nhave been killed in the last year in the manner you described? What, no\nfacts? Oh, how silly of me; I forgot, you don't like guns, so you don't\nneed no stinkin' facts.\n\n\n:Don't get too self-righteous, Mr. gun-toter.\n\nDon't get too smug, Mr. gun-hater.\n\n\nMike Ruff", "\nI have a bayonet in the factory scabbard from a Swedish Mouser mounted to \nthe handlebars of my Zuki'. That 10\" blade and my long arms do quite well \nthank you.\n\n ----===== DoD #8177 = Technician(Dr. Speed) .NOT. Student =====----", "THE ARMED CITIZEN\n+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++\nMere presence of a firearm, without a shot being fired, prevents\ncrime in many instances, as shown by news reports sent to The\nArmed Citizen. Shooting usually can be justified only where\ncrime constitutes an immediate, imminent threat to life or limb\nor, in some circumstances, property. The accounts below are from\nclippings sent in by NRA members. Anyone is free to quote or\nreproduce them.\n+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++\n\n - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -\n==================================================================\n Retired Las Vegas deputy police chief Larry Bolden initially\ntried to defend himself with a steering wheel bar lock when a\ncriminal attacked him in his car. But then the intruder wrestled\nit from him, Bolden pulled his pistol and fired several times,\nwounding his attacker and stopping the incident. \"He was just a\ncitizen defending himself,\" a police official said.\n\t(The Review-Journal, Las Vegas, Nev., 11/11/92)\n==================================================================\n - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -\n==================================================================\n A pair of teenaged robbers armed with a sawed-off shotgun and\nhandguns took the day's receipts from Brooklyn bodega owner Hector\nMartinez. As they made their getaway, Martinez grabbed his\nregistered 12-gauge shotgun and gave chase. When one fired,\nMartinez returned three blasts, slightly wounding his assailants.\nThey fled but were apprehended when they sought medical attention.\n\t(Newsday, Long Island, N.Y., 01/05/93)\n==================================================================\n - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -\n==================================================================\n A sign posted on the door of Roman Paras' shop reads \"The \nowners of this property are armed and highly skilled to protect\nlife, liberty and property from criminal attack.\" Apparently, a\npair of robbers didn't pause to read it as they threatened Paras'\nwife in their Oxnard, Calif., convenience store. Hearing her\nscream, Paras grabbed his .38, ran to the front of the store and\nshot it out with the masked and armed men, killing one criminal.\n\t(The Times, Los Angeles, Calif., 12/04/92)\n==================================================================\n - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -\n==================================================================\n Anne Marie Sullivan was showering in her Portland, Oreg., home\none morning when she heard the front door crash in. She jumped\nout of the shower in time to see a man entering the home. Running\nto the bedroom, Sullivan retrieved her boyfriend's pistol and\nfired two shots, mortally wounding the intruder. The dead man had\na lengthy police and prison record.\n\t(The Oregonian, Portland, Oreg., 01/07/93)\n==================================================================\n - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -\n==================================================================\n Mike Baranelli would have let two robbers who burst into a\nBirmingham, Ala., barber shop keep his money. But the 75-year-old\nretired teacher was unwilling to surrender his life. When the\nintruders ordered Baranelli, the shop owner, and another man to \nlie on the floor, Baranelli pulled his pistol and shot both men in \nthe head, killing one. \"I felt sure there was going to be three \ndead people in there. I think I had some divine help,\" Baranelli \nsaid.\n\t(The Sunday Advertiser, Montgomery, Ala., 01/03/93)\n==================================================================\n - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -\n==================================================================\n Believing an elderly Harvey, Ill., couple would again be easy\nprey, a knife-wielding home invader instead met death when the\n76-year-old homeowner loosed three rounds from a semi-automatic\npistol. Police said the dead man had been charged several times\nfor thefts from the couple's home.\n\t(The Star, Chicago Heights, Ill., 01/07/93)\n==================================================================\n - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -\n==================================================================\n The criminal's profile was scheduled to appear on \"America's\nMost Wanted,\" but his shot at fame was abruptly canceled by a\nHallandale, Fla., service station clerk. The Michigan prison\nescapee walked into the station and announced a robbery. Instead\nof cash, he got bullets in the head and chest from station clerk\nGary McVey. Police said McVey acted in self-defense and would not\nface charges.\n\t(The Sun-Sentinel, Ft. Lauderdale, Fla., 12/04/92)\n==================================================================\n - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -\n==================================================================\n A Bridgeport, Conn., oil delivery man handed over the few\ndollars he had. But the thug, apparently unsatisfied with his\ntake, turned his gun on his victim and demanded more money. \nInstead of more cash, the deliveryman instead pulled his own\npistol and fired, mortally wounding the robber. Police said the\ndead man had held up a nearby market just before the fatal\nincident.\n\t(The Courant, Hartford, Conn., 01/13/93)\n==================================================================\n - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -\n==================================================================\n After repeated burglaries at her San Marcos, Calif., home, Joan\nVessel, 64, was ready with a .38 and a cordless phone when she\nheard glass breaking one afternoon. When she found two teenagers\nattempting to get into her woodshed, Vessel fired a warning shot\nover their heads, marched them into the front yard and called\npolice.\n\t(The Times Advocate, Escondido, Calif., 12/25/92)\n==================================================================\n - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -\n==================================================================\n Angry that his auto insurance had been canceled, a client used\nbrass knuckles to take it out on Brandon, Fla., agent Steven\nTaylor. When his assailant walked out of the office, Taylor\ngrabbed a pistol kept there and held the former client at gun-\npoint until police arrived.\n\t(The Tribune, Tampa, Fla., 01/14/93)\n==================================================================\n - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -\n==================================================================\n Dozing one evening at his Exeter, Pa., office, Jim Pisano was\nawakened by the barking of his dog. Sitting in stunned amazement,\nhe watched as two men smashed out his office window, reached in\nand grabbed one of his hunting rifles. Reaching a pistol on his\ndesk, Pisano fired several shots, apparently wounding one of the\nburglars, and putting them to flight.\n\t(The Times-Leader, Wilkes-Barre, Pa., 12/09/92)\n==================================================================\n - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -\n==================================================================\n Trying on a pair of shoes was just an act for a criminal who\nthen pulled a knife and demanded money. When the man advanced,\nthe Flint, Mich., shoestore owner drew his pistol and fired,\ncritically wounding the would-be robber.\n\t(The Journal, Flint, Mich., 01/13/93)\n==================================================================\n - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -\n==================================================================\n Disarmed and pistol whipped after struggling with a pair of\nshotgun-toting thugs, Brooklyn, N.Y., pharmacist Soel Melero \ncontinued fighting and managed to retrieve a second-also licensed-\nhidden pistol. Firing three times, the druggist killed one of his\nassailants. The other fled empty-handed.\n\t(The Daily News, New York, N.Y., 01/18/93)\n==================================================================", "[This is a co-authored report from two of us who were there.]\n\nGun Owners Action League, our state rifle association, started the day\nwith a rally in the secluded courtyard behind the statehouse at 9:30.\nIt was looking sparse (about 40 people) until the speaker began,\nwhereupon about 120 more people followed the loudspeakers from\nwherever they had been lost, and filled out the area something proud.\n\nMike Yacino of GOAL spoke. One of his best throwaway lines was to\nremind us that all of us holders of carry permits there had been\nchecked and certified clear of all crimes by the state; while the\npeople in the Statehouse behind us only had to be certified clean of\n\"election fraud\" to hold their jobs.\n\nNancy Snow and Amos Hamburger were busy handing out ID buttons and\nsheets describing all the bills to be presented at the hearings, and\ntelling people where to find their own representatives (and in too\nmany cases, who they were).\n\nMike warned us that the committee was going to suspend its rules and\ndiscuss a bill that hadn't made it onto the official list. It seems a\ndelegation of students from Simon's Rock of Bard College (alma mater\nof Wayne Lo, who shot up the place with an SKS late last year) was\nbeing bussed in to testify for a bill to ban all sales of firearms or\nammo to anyone who is not a state resident.\n\nThe hearings were originally scheduled in the (large) Gardner\nAuditorium at 10:30, but that had been pre-empted by the Governor's\nhearings on the Framingham Eight (women in prison for killing abusive\nhusbands, and seeking release). So we had until 1:30 to buttonhole\nour representatives, after which we would be squashed into an\ninadequate hearing room.\n\nOne of my representatives' staffers was somewhat offensively smarmy.\nHe said, \"Oh, it must be gun hearings day again! The gun lobby is\nalways so organized every year.\" I got a little pissed, and replied,\n\"I'm not from the gun lobby -- I'm from your district.\"\n\nAt 12:30, your second reporter arrived in time to notice a\ndemonstration going on in front of the statehouse (where the\npro-gunners weren't). Randy Price from the TV News was there, in his\nmirror reflective shades, talking to one of the anti-gun types, and\nseveral Simon's Rock anti-gun \"close-the-loophole\" protestors.\n(Earlier, Randy had covered the GOAL rally.)\n\nThe room we had been assigned seated about 50. Remember, there were\nabout 160 gun owners there, plus another 20-30 students and teachers\nfrom Bard. One of us had already reserved a seat; the other never got\ncloser than the atrium outside -- and there was a crowd behind HIM. A\ncop took up station at the entrance and prevented the rest of the\ncrowd from coming in. Soon after the debate started, a loudspeaker\nwas set up outside in the hall for the benefit of everyone else.\n\nEveryone who was there (inside and outside) got to sign up on a sheet\nsaying what their position was on which bills. Most of us signed up\nto \"support GOAL's position\" on \"all bills.\"\n\nFirst, because of their time constraints, public officials got to\ntestify. And first up was the bill that nobody had seen (the students\nhad some curfew, I guess). \n\nCurrently, Massachusetts law allows a non-resident to purchase long\nguns or ammo from a local dealer provided he complies with the laws of\nhis own state. Previously, the law was similar, but applied only to\nnon-residents from states adjoining Massachusetts. The Simon's Rock\nfolks called the current law a \"loophole\" and wanted it closed.\n\nTwo of their reps spoke about Wayne Lo and his \"SKS assault rifle.\"\nThe second one, Hodgekiss, a co-sponsor, had done his homework so well\nthat he kept confusing Montana (Wayne Lo's home state) with Missouri,\nand became belligerent when about five gun owners in the gallery\ncorrected him after his second muff. Carr, from Gloucester, claimed\nthat the new bill would put the law back the way it was, but he was\nlying: the new bill allows purchases by non-residents of adjoining\nstates ONLY if they have licensing in their own state \"as strong as\"\nthat in Massachusetts. Since none of them do, that's that.\n\nSome of the things these two said were really offensive. \"In some of\nthese other states, anyone can buy a gun as long as he's breathing!\"\n(Oooooo!) \"We have some very, very good gun laws in Massachusetts; if\nonly the other states would adopt the same type of laws, we wouldn't\nbe having this situation -- but they won't.\" (Naughty, naughty!)\n\nNext up was Boston city councilman Albert \"Dapper\" O'Neill. He was\nthere to testify pro-gun, but in some ways he was a liability. He's\nreasonably elderly and tends to wander and repeat himself, plus he's\nalmost a caricature of a law-n-order politician. He badmouthed the\nACLU, said violent criminals should be executed, and that if he were\njudge, he'd give arrestees their \"last rights\" (pun intended) on the\nspot (at which many of the gun owners applauded, which bothered me.)\nHe said that all the proposed gun restrictions were a step in the\nright direction -- for the criminals. He said this FOUR times :-(\n\nTwo of the bills under consideration would allow police to rescind a\nCCW or FID, and confiscate all your guns, if someone had filed a\nrestraining order against you. (Note that the filing of a restraining\norder requires no warrant, no hearing, no evidence, and no conviction\n-- just an accusation.) Senator Barrett of Reading testified in favor\nof it, and patronized the pro-gunners there several times by saying,\n\"I'm sure all the gun owners here will agree with me that we have to\nget these weapons out of the hands of people that our courts have\nconvicted.\" I haven't seen such a disgustingly disingenuous\nperformance since Nixon whined that he wasn't a crook.\n\nBarrett also spoke in favor of the bill making the FID card renewable\nevery five years, instead of permanent as it is now. The stated\npurpose is to remove FID cards from those who have become ineligible.\n\"Revenue has nothing to do with it.\" (Yeah, right.) Apparently, some\ncongressmen think we're stupid enough to swallow the argument that\nit's preferable to process 1.6 million renewals every cycle in the\nvague hope of catching a recent felon than to simply take the goddamn\ncard away from a criminal at conviction time. As usual, hassle the\nlaw-abiding instead of the crook.\n\nThe two co-chairs of the committee were Rep. Caron and Sen. Jujuga.\nJujuga didn't say much (he was a co-sponsor of both \"restraining\norder\" bills) but Caron struck me as a sharp guy that wouldn't let any\nbad logic or lies on the part of either side to go unchallenged. (He \nwas a co-sponsor of one of the \"restraining order\" bills as well.) One\nof the younger reps on the committee (forgot his name) was\nvociferously pro-gun, somewhat embarrassingly so. His heart was in\nthe right place, but his arguments seemed to be confined to, \"every\nyear it's the same damn thing, you come in here with this crap...\"\nIt's nice to have a friend on the committee, but he could have been\nmore effective.\n\nAt about 3:00, it was clear that the hall-jam couldn't continue.\nSomeone came out of another meeting hall and yelled at the cop because\nthe loudspeaker was disturbing their meeting, so the loudspeaker was\ndisconnected. So they found a bigger hall upstairs. One of us had\nto leave to catch his charter bus, and so missed the \"public\"\ntestimony; the other got a seat this time.\n\nCaron began by talking about how he got his FID 16 years ago, left the\nstate, and then returned without notifying them of his address change.\nHe complained that the state record system was not up-to-date and that\nhis PD back in his city of birth still thought he lived there. Great\nquote: \"If you purchase a gun today, it will not get into the state\ncomputer system until 1999.\" (This was also an argument he used\nagainst the renewable FID card.)\n\nTestimony was heard from several \"battered women,\" one of whom had\nbeen attacked by some guy in his 20's who had an FID card because he\ngot it when he was 15 or thereabouts. They used a lot of emotion and\nsaid how they were scared of these men. A staffer of Attorney General\nHarshbarger testified in favor of this anti-gun bill, saying how\n50,000 restraining orders were granted last year, and how these women\nneeded to be protected. Caron noted that a restraining order was\ngranted for 10 days, and then a hearing was held to determine whether\nthe order would be extended to a year. He asked whether she would be\nsatisfied if the FID were revoked at the time of this hearing rather\nthan after the initial issuance of the FID. She gave some long\nrambling circumlocution in response.\n\nThen testimony against the bill was heard. Mike Yacino (who looks\nsomething like Einstein) got up and made the point that restraining\norders were issued on too little evidence, that judges like to issue\nrestraining orders just to let things cool off no matter who they\nthink is right (man or woman), and that the hearings for restraining\norders are lightning sessions with little time to consider facts.\nAtty. Karen McNutt spoke with him a few times during his testimony.\n\nOther pro-gunners got up to testify. One said he had had to file a\nrestraining order against a tenant to clear her out, and that she\ncountered by filing one against him! He noted that this would have\nallowed the state to confiscate his guns if the new bill became law.\nOne of the junior reps noted that \"this is America\" and we have to be\ncertain that individual rights are respected. Senator Jujuga\nreiterated this, saying that \"people who abuse smaller people can go\nto Hell as far as I care, but we have to be careful about equating\nconviction with a restraining order.\" (Point and match, Senator.)\n\nAnother pro-gunner got up and testified that he didn't know his\ncitizenship \"expired every 5 years,\" and that a driver's license was a\nprivilege, not a right like the right to keep and bear arms.\n\nA third got up and said the problem was with the criminal justice\nsystem, and argued in favor of a death penalty bill and public\nhangings. Senator Jujuga said he had himself tried to get a death\npenalty bill passed, and joking responded that he, too, favored public\nhangings. The speaker then responded, \"I'll make you a deal. You get\nme the rope, and I'll tie the noose.\"\n\nNext came public testimony on the Simon's Rock bill. A teacher\ntestified that she had been the teacher of Wayne Lo, and that \"he\nwouldn't have been able to shoot people inside a building while he was\noutside\" without his evil gun. She said that the \"loophole\" should be\nclosed to prevent something like this from \"ever happening again\".\n\nFour or five other kids testified in favor of this bill, one of\nspilling tears for the good legislators. One of the students actually\nshot by Wayne Lo was also there. Many of them had T shirts on,\nsaying, \"As long as one person can buy a gun in anger, none of us are\nsafe -- support gun control.\" The committee was reluctant to grill or\ncorrect the kids, except for Caron, who corrected one student who had\nclaimed that anyone could apply for an FID. \"Only residents can get\nFID's,\" he said. (How much do you want to bet that this kid had no\nidea he had been conned into testifying for a bill that would cut\nout-of-staters completely off?)\n\nYacino and McNutt spoke again, this time noting that the bill as\nwritten would affect both ammo AND ALL guns possessed by\nout-of-staters. Karen also noted that hunters in CT, NH, and VT could\nbe put away for a year if they wandered across the MA boundary\nsomewhere in the woods and got challenged by game wardens. Yacino\nunderscored the fact that Lo COULD have gotten an FID as a resident\nstudent -- and, hell, even an CCW, as he had NO criminal or mental\nrecord.\n\nOne junior rep was upset that it would take MA residents longer to buy\na gun than out-of-staters, and thought it was \"elitist\". Another\n(Caron?) said that we need the protection of preventing non-residents\nfrom buying without an FID because only two other states in the union\nhad \"FID-type\" cards, so complying with all the laws of one's home\nstate was \"not enough.\" One pro-gun speaker replied that this\nresembled a mother watching her son in a marching band and exclaiming,\n\"Everyone's out of step but Johnny!\"\n\nAll the Bard College people were filing out as the pro-gun testimony\nfor this bill was made, and thus only pro-gunners were around when the\nother bills came under consideration. The main bills remaining (and\nGOAL's position) were:\n\no H.4375 and four others: Notify police chiefs so they can pull \n licenses when a holder is convicted (strongly supported)\n\no H.1732: Require trigger locks on all handguns sold (opposed)\n\no H.962: Require trigger locks on all loaded firearms (strongly\n opposed)\n\no H.1350: Allow every municipality to enact their own gun laws \n (opposed)\n\no H.1731: Fund bullet-proof vests for municipal police (supported)\n\no S.1097: State Constitutional Amendment for the RKBA (supported)\n\no Several on police discretion in the issuance of FID cards (opposed)\n\no Several altering non-resident license conditions (supported)\n\no H.1135: Ban damn near all guns everywhere in the state (guess!)\n\nSome of these took only 30 seconds to consider, as the remaining\npro-gunners raised hands in unison either for or against them.\n\nMike Yacino noted that, besides the danger in screwing with a trigger\nlock on a loaded gun, that bill would make it illegal for a licensee\nto carry his concealed handgun unless it were locked.\n\nCaron blew right through H.1350 when he saw that we opposed it.\nAgain, he brought up the state's archaic records capability and said,\n\"This would create hundreds of different licensing systems.\"\n\nThe session ran late -- since it was the last scheduled hearing, it\ncould not be adjourned until everyone who wanted to had testified. It\nended at about 6:30.\n-- ", " \nthere is NO evidence of effect of gun buyback programs but hopefully if\nthere is any effect it may prevent injuries or deaths in one of these types\nof common incidents.\n \n Firearms are the fifth-leading cause of unintentional deaths among children\nages 14 and under. I don't understand how the ratio to other accidental\ndeaths is important. So guns don't kill as many children as car accidents.\nWhat is the difference in severity between 1,000 deaths and 10,000 deaths?\nI am not trying to use accidental gun-related deaths among children as a\njustification for gun control. Who needs to be convinced that accidental\ngun deaths of children is a serious problem? I assumed that any humane\nperson would be concerned when any 10 year old got hold of their parents\ngun from their bedroom drawer and accidently blew away one of their friends.\n \n My point was, gun buyback programs which are almost always run by police\ndepartments MIGHT (I stress might) do a LITTLE (I stress little) good by\ngiving people the impression that the police are attempting to respond\nto interpersonal gun violence in a unique way. Overall, I thought that I\nhad made it clear that I did not think that gun buyback programs were\nuseful.\n \n \n Well Joe, I suggest that you talk to the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence\nor the Centers for Disease Control. If YOU look carefully you will see\nthat YOU greatly underestimate the presence of guns in the lives of youths.\nThe CPHV reports that 135,000 youth bring GUNS to school DAILY and that\n400,000 bring GUNS to school at least once a year. The CDC estimates\nthat 1 out 0f 25 high school students carried a gun to school at least once\nin 1990. The CDC also says that 1.2 million elementary-aged, latch-key\nchildren (kids who come home from school to an empty house), have access\nto guns in their home. California schools reported a 200% increase in\nstudent gun confiscations between 1986 and 1990, and a 40% increase between\n1988 and 1990. Florida reported a 61% percent increase in gun incidents in\nschools between 1986/87 amd 1987/88. These are the \"statistics\".\n \n \n \n Okay, maybe I worded it wrong...DAD. I meant that to put children in a\nsituation (fortified compound) where harm could come to them is not the\nact of a Messiah in my opinion. I'm not saying that Koresh had control over\nthese children directly, but I would hope that whatever Messiah there is\nwould not let innocent children die.\nIf as he claimed he was the Messiah and people followed him as such, why\ndid he not tell their parents to free the children instead of letting them\nburn alive? Thanks for the reality check Joe, its been real.", "UPI Washington DC, Update Desk\t\t\t4/15/93\n\n For the past several months the Clinton administration has been\n stymied by mixed signals coming from the economy. While most\n leading indicators has shown an apparent improvement in the \n economy, there has been no corresponding improvement in the area\n of jobs creation.\n\n The unemployment figures seem stalled at the 7% mark. last month,\n in an effort to understand this problem, President Clinton appointed\n a blue ribbon panel to try to resolve the apparent conflicting\n economic signals. This panel was chaired by Vice President Gore.\n\n Today the panel released their results, providing a shocking conclusion.\n \"It's the guns\" Vice President Gore said. Apparently NRA members, and other\n \"gun-nuts\" are purchasing firearms at in record numbers, pulling the\n economy out of the recession. \"Their buying them five times faster than\n ever before, and stockpiling left and right\", the Vice President said. \n\n However, since many domestic firearm and ammunition manufacturers have\n been experiencing hard times during the past few years, including several\n declarations of bankruptcy by many leading American gun makers, they have\n not rushed to increase hiring to meet the new demand.\n\n \"We want to see if this run will continue before hiring more people\", said\n the President of Colt industries. \"As long as Clinton is in office, we\n suspect it will\", he added.\n\n In response to this new information, President Clinton announced a new\n Gun Control measure to be introduced into Congress this session. It's \n called the \"Ban-One-A-Month\" Gun Control Bill. Under the terms of this law,\n every make and model of all firearms will be written on individual index \n cards. The cards will all be put in a big hat and the President will draw\n one card every month. Sixty days later that gun will be banned from any\n further manufacture/importation or sale in this country, except to the\n politically connected and to members of the National Police Force.\n\n The President said, \"This law will benefit America two ways. When the\n Gun-Of-The-Month is announced every thirty days, the gun-nuts will run\n out and buy thousands of them, boosting the economy even more. In addition,\n over the long run, we will get all of these icky-evil guns off of the\n street.\" He also announce the appointment of Sarah Brady to oversee\n this program, citing her \"Honesty, and unbiased view on the subject\n of gun control\".\n\n Senators Metzenbaum, DeConcini, Feinstein, and Boxer have proposed an\n amendment to the Bill which would add additional index cards containing\n caliber designations for all know ammunitions. \"Their stockpiling,\n stockpiling, stockpiling\" screamed Metzenbaum during a press conference\n at the national Headquarters of Handgun Control Inc.\n\n Senators Simon, Metzenbaum, and Moyenhan also introduced an amendment\n that would make all guns illegal to possess once the last card has been\n drawn from the hat. Senator Simon was quoted as saying, \"First we'll\n fuck em, then we'll kick em out of bed in the morning\", during a press\n conference he held in the second floor Mens Restroom of the Senate\n building. He of course was referring to the fact that he would allow\n the people to purchase the guns to help the economy, but would require\n the BATF to seize all of the guns in America sometime in the year 2008,\n after all of the cards have been drawn.\n\n The head of the BATF responded by saying, \"We will have to see if this\n thing in Waco is over by then. We may be too busy to seize all those\n guns\".\n\n US House Representatives Pat Schroeder and David Skaggs of Colorado\n declared this proposed law as being \"reasonable gun control which won't\n affect anybodys Constitutional right to own sporting guns\".\n\n - end article -\n\n For the humor impaired :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) \n\n Bill Vojak\n vojak@icebucket.stortek.com\n\t\t\t\tNRA, ILA,\n Colorado Firearms Coalition\n------------------------------------------------------------\nThe CBS Nightly Propaganda With Dan Rather. (RATHER NOT!)\nThe CBS Nightly Propaganda With Dan Rather. (RATHER BIASED!)", "\nTell me are you really this stupid, or are you just pretending. \n\n\nA fire insurance is not an offensive weapon.\n\n\nA spare tire is not an offensive weapon.\n\n\t\t \tHow should one deal with a man who is convinced that\n\t\t \the is acting according to God's will, and who there-\n Jokke\t\tfore believes that he is doing you a favour by\n\t\t \tstabbing you in the back?", "I have been convinced of the right of AMericans to an effective \nself-defense, but something strikes me as odd among the\npro-RKBA arguments presented here.\n\nThe numbers comparing hundreds of thousands (indeed, even a\nmillion) of instances of law abiding citizens deterring\ncriminal activity, seem valid to me. Likewise the number\nof gun-caused homicides each year (about 11,000/year?). However,\nit is surprising that the \"Evil AntiGun Empire \" (Darth Vader\nbreathing sound effect here) never tries to compare\n\"All legitimate gun defenses\" vs. \"All gun crimes.\" Instead, \nit's always \"All legitimate gun defenses,\" which includes\ncases in which the criminals are shot but not killed, and\ncases in which the criminal is not here, vs. just \ncriminal gun homicides, which only includes case sin which\nthe victim died.\n\nWhy is this? Of course, it wouldn't be unreasonable to say\nthat in each crime already measured (involving guns), the\nconsequnces are already known and it is safe to assume that\na gun-based bank robbery last week will not suddenly turn\ninto a gun-basd robbery+homicide. Whereas in the legitimate\ngun defenses, one may assume that all those criminals who\nwere deterred would have committed more crime or more\nserious crimes had they not been deterred.\n\n-Case Kim", "I just read a clari article about how, among the other weapons\nthe BD had purched, they had two \"Barrett 50-caliber armor-piercing\nrifles.\" How the hell do you use an armor-piercing rifle? Run\nup to a tank and try to stab it?\n\nOnce again, ignorance prevails amongst the media . . .", "\nWell, we're not. Which goes to prove you still don't understand what\nwe're saying here.\n\n\nI've lived through the bombing of Cambodia; My Lai; inflated body counts\nin VietNam; the funding of Noreiga; Watergate; Contragate; Chappaquiddick;\nKent State; domestic spying by the CIA; Edwin Meese's Pornography \nCommission; the War on Drugs; civil seizure; the MOVE disaster; the LA \ndisaster; and now Waco.\n\nDo you really believe that government always does what is right?\n\n\nWatch the news for the next couple of months. Watch how this whole\ngovernment-initiated debacle turns into shouting for \"more gun control.\"\nIt's already started.\n-- ", "\nI phoned Licensing Division in Washington State to ask for an application\nfor a CCW. Instead they promptly sent me an applicationfor becoming a \nfirearms dealer in Washington!", "\nIs the license required for driving a car exclusively on private\nproperty, such as a farm? Here in the United States, the license\nis required only for the use of public roads.\n\n\nWe also have a nation of 250 million people, _many_ issues and\nusually only two candidates for a given office. A President\nmight be willing to abuse mild gun control laws and create\na de-facto ban (something a majority of the people would object to)\nand still be elected: The voters might look at issues like the\ncivil rights of minorities, health care, etc... and vote\nfor the \"lesser of two evils.\" I don't think this is a matter\nof paranoia, since local governments in (for example) New York\nand Chicago have abused existing, mild gun control laws to \ncreate a virtual ban.\n\n\nIn which case, the United States already has adaquate gun control laws:\nAccording to federal statistic, only 7% of gun-wielding criminals\nlegally purchase their own guns from licensed dealers. If that's\nthe point of gun control (to prevent criminals from legally purchasing\nguns) then America doesn't need any additional laws to accomplish\nthis.\n\n\nHow is this any different from guns? There are legal purposes for\nowning and using a gun: They are appropriate tools for hunting,\ntarget shooting and self-defence. Like cars, murder isn't\ntheir only (or even a common) use.\n\n\nI certainly couldn't imagine the American public accepting regulation\nof axes. While the politics of other nations may be different,\nin America there is strong opposition to any intrusive law that\nprimarily would effect the average, law-abiding citizen who had\nnot done anything wrong.\n\n\nA good way to deal with which problem? It is an excelent way to deal \nwith the short-term problem of rioting and violent attacks. Of course,\nit doesn't do anything for the long-term issues that start riots. But\nat this point, what can these individuals do about long-term social\nproblems? \n\n\nThere are, according to surveys, guns in 40% of American homes.\nIn many parts of the country, this is closer to 100%. Those places\nwhere almost everyone owns a gun are, on average, safer than those\nwhere guns are less common.\n\n\nThis is, I think, a fundamental difference between American government\nand that of other nations. Here it is not acceptable to punish\nor restrict the average, law-abiding citizen in the name of some\nvague \"common good.\" ", "\nThe Cold War has not ended. The only thing that has happened is that \nthe two sides have exchanged roles.\n\nThe USA has a higher imprisonment rate (400 per 100,000 population)\nthan any country in Europe by a factor of 10 or so. In California,\nit is over 600 per 100,000 population. The prison population in\nCalifornia is now over 100,000, a quadrupling since 1980. Most of\nthese inmates were convicted under the drug prohibition laws. Police\nnow confiscate property, without trial, under a \"good faith probable\ncause\" standard, in the name of depriving the horrible ghastly drug\ndealers of their ill-gotten gains. Conduct an opinion poll, and a\nmajority will answer \"yes\" if you ask them whether civil liberties and\ndue process should be diluted in order to Send Our Young People The\nMessage That We Are Serious About Winning The War On Drugs. I don't\nknow whether anyone has measured such a figure among gun owners, but\nI would expect the same result. They certainly seem to vote that way.\n\nAccording to Jack Herer's book _The Emperor Wears No Clothes_, over\nTWELVE MILLION YEARS of prison time have been served under the\nmarijuana prohibition laws, by people who were minding their own\nbusiness and causing no harm to others (and less harm to themselves\nthan users of tobacco, with 400,000 confirmed kills/year). Under\nthe \"War on Drugs\" campaign of \"zero tolerance\" due process protections\nhave eroded, and mandatory sentences of ten years without parole have\nproliferated. By and large, gun owners have voted for the politicians\nwho favor such measures. And now, all the precedents--not only\nlegal, but political: \"My fellow Americans, we must send our young\npeople the message that we are serious about winning the War On\nMurder\"--are going to be applied to the oncoming wave of gun\nprohibition laws. Gun owners are about to get a taste of the medicine\nthey voted for believing it would be used only on those with different\ntastes in recreational drugs.\n\nWhat goes around comes around.\n", ":> Surrender your arms. Soon enough, officers will be around to collect\n:> them. Resistance is useless. \n:\n:Don't tell me -- you're the \"Borg Warner,\" right?\n\nHAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Hee, hee. \n\nThis was absolutely fabulous. I nearly fell out of my chair laughing.\nWonderful! Mr. Tavares, my hat is off to you again!\n\n\nMike Ruff\n", "\nAsk the Brits. Enough people have been killed by rubber bullets that they now\nuse them under only certain \"controlled\" circumstances. And they are fired\nfrom something that looks like a tear gas launcher.\n\nThere are smaller rubber bullets and pellets (for shotguns). I understand that\nthey are only intended to be discouragers, ie. for the snapping but not truly\ndangerous animal. In general, they do not seem capable of really stopping\nsomeone who wants you or past you. They are fired at very low muzzle velocity\n(the .38 ball round is intended for a 400fps load). Finally, as your mother\nwarned you, you can put an eye out with that thing. :-)", " \n \n \n While I wouldn't be too terribly impressed with anybody who got\nto be paranoid based on either Usenet in general or Phill Hallam-Baker's\ncomments in general, you'd be surprised.\n \n For most people, if you accuse them of something long enough and\nloud enough, to enough people, they start to ask why they're bothering\nto fight it.\n \n If nothing you do will be considered right, why bother to do right?\nIt's pretty basic human nature.\n \n \n What an amazing thing. I didn't realize that over a hundred million\ngun owners all posted to tpg.\n \n Even if *all* the posts in talk.politics.guns illustrated what\nyou say they illustrate, it would still only reflect the written\npersonas (which is often different from face-to-face) of a very, very\nsmall and select group.\n \n Anybody who seriously generalizes any attitudes or positions on\nUsenet to the general population of any country either doesn't care\nabout accuracy or needs to have a few realities explained to them.\n \n \n Speaking of which...\n \n Most of the \"readership\" posts I've seen put the most read\nnewsgroups at about 160,000 readers, a number I have a feeling is\nfairly inflated. The posters, rare and regular, are themseleves a\nvery tiny minority of that group. And the whole of Usenet readers\nare themselves a very distorted sample of humanity.\n \n If anything, the only real thing you can get out of the relative\nsample of Usenet readers is that we've got too much equipment and too\nmuch time available to us.\n \n \n Proof that guns don't make you safer is that if you buy one the\ngovernment will show up and kill you?\n \n Tell me, if the government took away the voting rights of\neverybody who exercised their free speech, would that then be proof\nthat free speech squelches political activity?\n \n You are equating two things with each other that don't.\n \n \n Phill, if you really believe that the various posts on\ncomputer nets represents *either* most of the poster's in person\npersonalities *or* the general public's general opinions, then\nI have some serious reservations about your grasp on reality.\n \n But don't expect you really do believe that. It's simply\na convenient way to make your point, and hopefully make those\npeople you don't like look bad.\n \n \n Have a nice day, Phill.\n ", "The Denver Post (supposed voice of the supposed Rocky Mountain Empire)\nran the following in the 'Firearms, Supplies' classified heading on \nFriday, 23 April 1993. If you have an opinion about their new found\nwisdom, I am told that the person to speak with is one Mr. Walters,\n(303)820-1267.\n\n\tNotice\n\n\tThe Denver Post will no longer \n\tknowingly accept any advertise-\n\tment to buy or sell assault weap-\n\tons. The Denver Post finds that \n\tthe use of assault weapons poses\n\ta threat to the health, safety, and\n\tsecurity of its readers.\n\nLet 'em know what you think...\n\n--Dan\n--\nSpooksmoke: Revolution, Assasination, Thorium, Cobalt-60, Clintin, CIA, NSA, SHC\n DoD #202 / loki@acca.nmsu.edu / liberty or death / taylordf@ucsu.colorado.edu \n Send me something even YOU can't read...\n-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----\nVersion: 2.2", "\n\nYup, you said it. I admire such honesty. ;-)\n\n\nFire an Anschutz .22, then come back and talk to us. You're letting\nignorance and possibly fear cloud your thinking. Either that, or this\nis sour grapes because we beat you in the Olympic shooting events.\nFunny, you'd think biathalon would be a natural sport for the norse. ;-)\n\n\nPrecisely. That makes them the best method of defense for the citizenry.\nNot everybody has the time to train with a gladius, you know, but for\nsome reason those who prey on others seem to have more free time. To\nextend this a bit further, you need only a certain level of competence\nto beat another with a range weapon. Getting in their face with a\nweapon and winning is much more difficult, and requires more training\ntime the average citizen just does not have. I've spent a few years\npracticing with a sword. I can take the common person armed with one\n(though self-defense isn't the reason I own one). My kid sister would\nhave an even chance of beating me, gun vs. gun, with only a month of\ntraining. That makes firearms much better, in our eyes.\n\n\nExcellent point. Perhaps you aren't so naive after all?\n\n\nTaken into consideration in what respect? Though quite wrong, let's\nmake it a blanket statement for weapons in general. This has been\ntaken into consideration. We call use of them aggrivated assault,\nassault with a deadly weapon, assault with intent to kill, attempted\nmurder, and a whole host of others, and tack on extra prison time.\n\n\nIn Norway I suspect it was about the only weapon available. You conquered\nyour land (among others) a full millenia before we were thought of, and\nshortly thereafter weapons weren't quite so common. I suspect that a few\nworld wars made a difference too, since in times of emergency weapons\ntend to be turned in or donated to needy causes. I'm curious, though,\nwere the weapons used in the crimes bought shortly before the crime, or\nwere they aquired by other means? Any requirements other than just\nregistering the shotgun?\n\n\n\"Come on down to honest Erik's Used Swords! Here's a slightly-used\nshort sword, *THE* battlefield supremacy weapon of the eleventh\ncentury! Only $39.95 with trade-in. Easy financing!\" Sorry, I\ncouldn't resist. You guys still slicing each other with long knives,\nor is this really not a problem?\n\n\nI'm all for that. What gets me is that scandanavians (and yes, I'm only\na couple generations off the longship) used to be some of the most\nfeared warriors on the planet a mere millenia ago, yet now seem to\nspend their time sitting in spas and doing a bit of topless sunbathing.\nMaybe you had a bit more time, and a more homogeneous culture, to become\ncivilized with?\n\n\nYes. We're too damned violent, partially I believe because we are not\na homogeneous culture and don't identify ourselves as \"Americans\" first\nand foremost. I'm rather proud of my Norwegian and Danish heritage,\nwhereas I suspect you couldn't care less about that 2% Welsh blood in\nyour veins thanks to a raid in Ireland back in 1055? The time scale\nand the homogeneous culture are important. Equally important is a\nbasic philosophical difference in personal versus collective good.\nIn America, the individual is more important than the masses. Personal\nliberties are prized above all. This is, sadly, changing of late, but\nI trust you notice how this call for freedom makes laws that restrict\nindividuals for little collective benefit hateful to Americans. I'd\nhazard a guess that, were America less interested in freedom and\npersonal liberty and more interested in collective good we never would\nhave sent our armed forces anywhere. One poor effect of this culture\nwe have is that we're looking out for ourselves and it is quite easy\nto identify with only a small segment of the population. My grandmother\ntells of being discriminated against back in Denmark because she spoke\n\"low Dane,\" whereas others spoke \"high Dane.\" It was shortly after\nWorld War II, as I remember, that \"low Dane\" was abolished so there was\none common dialect. We cannot fathom such a minor thing being a problem,\nbecause we have even more obvious means of identifying an \"outsider.\"\n\n\nTake heart, yours is better than 90% of what gets posted by native speakers.\nAny helpful hints for our educational system? People have this annoying\ntendency to drop out of school and sell drugs over here.\n\n[ ;-) And what kind of name is Thomas Parsli? Here, you can use my great\ngrandfather's before he changed it: Christian Aarskog. That's a\ngreat one for getting mispronounced. I think that's why he changed it.\nI don't think he needs it anymore ;-) ]", "\nThis is not borne out of reality; the old Soviet Union had a very\nserious domestic handgun and submachinegun trade, guns that were\nof commercial grade because they were produced in honest-to-goodness\nmachineshops. Why would all production have to be local; don't we\nhave a road system that is the envy of the world?\n\nI seem to recall incidents in the past where Chinese entreprenaurs\nattempted to smuggle AK-47s (semi-autos) into this country to\nget around import number limitations (May have been Gunweek where\nI read that years ago...)\n\nAny person with high-school drafting skills and vocational school\nmachineshop training could produce a submachinegun. You talk about\nthe average person not being able get even a zip-gun; well now, think\nof all that private CNC controlled machinery that is not being used for\n3 shifts a day; do you think that if guns were being sold on the\nblack market for say, $150, an enterprising mechanical engineer\ncould be using that machinery to produce workable submachineguns\nfor sale? After all, GUNWEEK had an article and pictures on how BATF\nwas looking for the manufacturer of quite efficient silencers that\nwere of commercial quality and finish.", "As quoted from by rats@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (Morris the Cat):\n\nIf anybody wanted proof of the nonsense of the \"you can't build guns\" claim,\nthey need look no farther than the Philippines. Amateur gunsmiths there\nregularly produce everything from .45 automatics to full auto shotguns. Now\nif this guy wants to claim that the Philippines is either technologically\nsuperior to the US or that their transportation is better than ours, all I\ncan say is that he's living in a fantasy world.\n", "jrm@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu:\n\n Firearms tend to fall into this low dollar/pound area. It would not\n be economic to smuggle them in. All production would have to be\n local. There are not all that many people who have both the skill\n AND motivation to assemble worthwhile firearms from scratch.\n High-ranking crime figures could obtain imported Uzis and such, but\n the average person, and average thug, would be lucky to get a zip-gun\n - and would pay through the nose for it.\n\nGood point you make. However, a zip gun, by definition, is a crude,\nhomemade gun--certainly not something capable of sustained, accurate\nfire, but it would be useful as a means of getting a normal gun. Recall\nthe tiny, single-shot pistols made by the Allies during World War II for\nuse by partisans. They were essentially well-made zipguns, incapable of\neffective fire beyond a few feet. But they were useful as a means of\nkilling German soldiers for their guns.\n\nAlso note that the crowd-pleasin' favorite, the Sten gun, was\nspecifically designed to require as little machine work as possible.\nThe point's been made here that one could make a Sten clone with steel\ntubing, hand tools and a welder.\n\nI still think that while the point is good, I think there's a difference\nbetween marijuana and firearms, in that quality marijuana can be grown\nlocally; there's no need to import the stuff. If guns are banned, I\nthink the demand for \"real\" guns will be sufficient to make smuggling\neconomically feasible, thus rendering a ban moot. In any case, the\nresult would be the same--people who aren't criminals won't have\nfirearms, and \"bad guys\" will continue to have access to them, one way\nor another. And I don't see that as a necessary situation.", "April 19, 1993\n \nAs William O. Douglas noted, \"If a powerful sponsor is lacking,\nindividual liberty withers -- in spite of glowing opinions and\nresounding constitutional phrases.\"\n \nThe legislative scorecard outlined below resulted from subcommittee,\ncommittee, and floor action. Many important victories, however, come\nfrom coordinating with legislators to ensure anti-gun/anti-hunting\nlegislation is either amended favorably, rejected, or never voted.\nThese quiet victories are no less impressive in protecting our\nfundamental civil liberties guaranteed by the Second Amendment to the\nU.S. Constitution.\n \n ****\n \nArizona - SB 1233, NRA-supported legislation concerning minors in\ncriminal possession of firearms passed the House 36-18, is currently\nawaiting action by the Governor.\n \nArkansas - HB 1447, Firearms Preemption Legislation was signed by the\nGovernor making this the forty-first state to pass preemption.\nPreemption had passed twice in previous sessions only to be vetoed by\nthen Gov. Bill Clinton. HB 1417, mandatory storage of firearms,\namended and then killed in committee.\n \nColorado - SB 42, mandating the storage of firearms with a\ntrigger-lock, killed in committee. SB 104, prohibiting the sale of\ncertain semi-auto firearms was killed in committee. SB 108,\nso-called Colorado Handgun Violence Prevention Act, including a\nprovision for a 10-day waiting period, killed in committee.\n \nConnecticut - Substitute Bill No. 6372, imposing a 6% tax on all\nfirearms, ammunition, and archery equipment killed in Environment\nCommittee.\n \nFlorida - A bill to require a 3-year license at a cost of $150 to own\nor possess semi-automatic firearms with a second degree felony\nprovision (15 years in prison) died in committee along with numerous\nother anti-gun owner bills. No anti-gun legislation passed in\nFlorida this year.\n \nGeorgia - SB 12, supposed instant check with provision allowing for\nup to a 7-day \"waiting period,\" defeated in House Public Safety\nCommittee and sent to Interim Study committee. Mandatory storage\nbill -- SB 247 -- was defeated 39-15 in the Senate. The same bill\npassed the upper-House 52-2 in 1992.\n \n \nIllinois - HB 90, prohibiting the sale, possession, manufacture,\npurchase, possession, or carrying of certain semi-auto firearms, was\ndefeated in House Judiciary II Subcommittee on Firearms. HB 91,\nmandatory storage legislation, failed in House Judiciary Subcommittee\non Firearms. HB 1550, repeals FOID and makes FTIP, point of sale\ncheck permanent, passed out of Judiciary Committee by a 10-4-2 vote.\nPresently on the calendar for third reading in the House.\n \nSB 40, mandatory storage bill, defeated in committee.\nSB 265, imposing a handgun excise tax, failed in Senate committee on\nRevenue's Subcommittee on Tax Increases.\nSB 272,imposing a tax on all persons engaged in the business of\nselling firearms, failed in Senate Revenue Committee's Subcommittee\non Tax Increases.\n \nIndiana - SB 241, Statewide Firearms Preemption, passed in the Senate\n34-16, and in the House 77-22. Twelve amendments were introduced on\nthe House floor to SB 241. Among these amendments were a ban on\ncertain semi-auto firearms, Mandatory Storage, Trigger-Lock, a ban on\n\"Saturday Night Specials\" (Similar to 1988 Maryland Bill), and\nHandgun Rationing (one handgun per month). All were defeated.\n\n\t[I read this morning (4/20) S.B. 241 was defeated -- lvc]\n \nKansas - HB 2435, providing for a 72-hour waiting period on all\nfirearms was defeated in committee. HB 2458, presently on the\nGovernor's desk, HB 2459 and SB 243 and 266 all relating to victims'\nrights, are expected to be enacted into law.\n \nMaine - Funding for the Department of Fish and Wildlife 1993-94\nbudget, was restored following severe reductions in the Governor's\nproposed budget. LD 612, an anti-hunting bill which included reverse\nposting and 1000 yard safety zones, killed in committee.\n \nMaryland - SB 6-(Firearms Incendiary ammunition) died in committee on\na 8-3 vote, SB 41 (Reckless Endangerment - Firearms - Sale or\nTransfer) died in committee on a 11-0 vote, SB 126 (Gun Control -\n\"Assault Weapons\") died in committee on 9-2 vote, SB 182 (Weapons\n-Free School Zone) was withdrawn, SB 185 (Weapons on School Property-\nDriver's License Suspension was withdrawn, SB 265 (\"Assault Pistols\"\n- Sale, Purchase or Transport) died in committee on 8-3 vote, SB 328\n(\"Assault Pistols\" Act of 1993) died in committee on a 8-3 vote, SB\n682 (Baltimore City-Firearms-Rifles and Shotguns) died in committee\non a 9-2 vote.\n \nHB 274 (Pistol and Revolver Dealers Licenses - compliance with zoning\nlaws) was withdrawn, HB 366 (Regulated Firearms-sales and transfer)\ndied on the Senate Floor, HB 374 (Handguns and \"assault weapons\" -\nAdvertising for sale or transfer) died in committee, HB 384 (Handguns\nand \"Assault Weapons\" - Exhibitors) died in committee, HB 495\n(\"Assault Pistols\" Act of 1993) died in committee on a 14-9 vote, HB\n496 (Gun Shows-Sale, Trade, or Transfer of regulated firearms) died\nin committee on a 19-6 vote, HB 601 (Firearms - Handguns - \"Assault\nPistols\" - Handgun Roster Board) was withdrawn, HB 683 (Rifles and\nShotguns - Registration) was withdrawn, HB 945 (Pistols and Revolvers\n- Private sales or transfers- required notice) died in committee,\nand HB 1128 Prince Georges County -\n Weapons - Free School Zone) was withdrawn.\n \nMississippi - HB 141, closing a loophole allowing felons to possess\nfirearms, passed both Houses and signed by the Governor. The bill\ncodifies into law mechanism for certain felons to have their Second\nAmendment liberties reinstated.\n \nNebraska - LB 83 and LB 225, mandatory trigger-lock bills, killed in\ncommittee.\n \nNew Hampshire - H.B. 363, providing for reciprocity for concealed\ncarry licenses passed. H.B. 671, increasing the term of a License\nto Carry Loaded Handguns passed.\n \nNew Mexico - SB 762, imposing a 7-day \"waiting period,\" defeated in\nSenate committee (0-5) and then on floor of the Senate (15-24). HB\n182, mandatory storage legislation, was killed by a vote of 1-8 in\ncommittee. HB 230, legislation safeguarding sportsmen in the field\nfrom harassment by animal rights extremists, signed into law by the\nGovernor on March 30.\n \nNew York - Seven-day waiting period was defeated in the City of\nBuffalo. Ban on certain semi-autos was defeated in Monroe County.\nThe tax and fee bills to be imposed on guns and ammo were not\nincluded in the 1993-94 budget. SB 207, making pistol licenses\nprovides for validity of pistol license throughout the state, passed\nSenate. Currently awaiting action in Assembly committee.\n \nNorth Dakota - HB 1484, granting victims compensation in certain\ncircumstances, was signed into law by the Governor on April 8.\n \nOregon - SB 334, banning firearms on school grounds and in court\nbuildings, withdrawn as a result of gun owners opposition.\n \nRhode Island - HB 5273, mandatory firearms storage legislation,\ndefeated in committee by a vote of 8-5. HB 6347, an act prohibiting\naliens from owning firearm; defeated by unanimous vote in committee.\nHB 5650, excepting NRA instructors from the firearms safety\nrequirement, reported favorably. HB 5781, exempting persons with an\nAttorney General's permit from the 7-day waiting period, reported to\nthe floor by a vote of 11-1.\nHB 6917, extending the term of a permit to carry from two years to\nthree years, reported to the floor unanimously.\n \nUtah HB 290, reforming the state's concealed carry statute, passed\nout of House committee. SB 32, creating civil liability for\nso-called negligent storage of a firearm, and SB 33 creating the\noffense of \"reckless endangerment\" with a firearm, killed on Senate\nfloor.\n \nVirginia: S.B. 336, and S.B. 803, requiring proof of state residence\nto obtain Virginia Driver's License passed. S.B. 804, which\nincreases the penalty and imposes a mandatory minimum sentence for\n\"straw man\" purchases of multiple firearms passed. S.B. 858,\nallowing possession of \"sawed-off\" rifles and shotguns in compliance\nwith federal law passed. S.B. 1054, making it a felony for first\noffense of carrying a concealed firearm without a license (which the\nNRA opposes until law-abiding citizens can acquire a concealed carry\nlicense for self-defense), was defeated. H.B. 1900, increasing the\npenalty for use of a firearm in committing a felony was passed. H.B.\n2076, requiring proof of residence to obtain a driver's license\npassed. H.B. 2272, providing for a referendum on the imposition of a\nstatewide three- day \"waiting period\" in handgun purchases was\ndefeated.\n \nWashington: SB 5160, calling for waiting periods and licensing for\nall semi-automatic firearms, died in committee.\n \nWest Virginia - S.C.R. 18, which calls for a study to control\ntransfers of handguns and \"Assault Weapons\" was defeated in the\nSenate 24-10.\n \nWisconsin - In a referendum up against all odds, the determined\nefforts of the Madison Area Citizens Against Crime paid off on April\n6 when a nonbinding referendum banning the possession of handguns in\nMadison, Wisconsin, was defeated. Despite opposition to the ban --\naired largely by firearms owners at a series of public meetings on\nthe issue -- the Common Council voted on February 17 to place the\nreferendum on the ballot, allowing only seven weeks of campaigning to\nreverse public opinion on the controversial issue.\n \nAn October 1992 poll conducted by the Wisconsin State Journal found\n57% in support and 38% opposed, with 5% expressing no opinion. By\nelection day, of the more than 56,000 voters who went to the polls,\n51% cast ballots in opposition to the proposal while 49% voted to\nhave the Madison Common Council enact such a ban. The campaign\ncommittee, spearheaded by the Wisconsin Pro-Gun Movement and NRA-ILA,\nrelied on neighborhood canvassing, direct mail and radio/TV\nadvertising to educate voters on the civil liberties implications\nraised by enforcement of the ban if the referendum was approved.\n \nDespite the surprising defeat, it is expected that the Madison\ninitiative's chief proponent, Mayor Paul Soglin, will attempt to have\nthe Common Council enact an ordinance banning handguns.\n \n Downloaded from GUN-TALK (703-719-6406)\n A service of the\n National Rifle Association\n Institute for Legislative Action\n Washington, DC 20036", "\nHere are a few ideas:\n\n1) a free library card so they can look up the FBI\n Uniform Crime Report which shows how good HCI is\n at lying through their teeth,\n\n2) a free RTD Transit Pass which will allow anti-gunners\n to tour South Central Los Angeles and convince\n people living there that they don't need guns to protect\n themselves because the police will do it for them \n (don't lose the pass, you'll need it to get out),\n\n3) a free bus ride to Vermont, which has almost no gun\n control and, curiously enough, almost no crime either,\n\n4) a free calculator, since anti-gunners have heretofore\n been unable to figure out what a small percentage of\n the guns owned in America are used to commit violent crime.\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------\nLee Gaucher NRA | My opinions.\ngaucher@sam.cchem.berkeley.edu | No one else's.", "OHIO HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE TUEDAY, APRIL 6, 1993\n \nH.B. NO. 278- REPRESENTATIVE BEATTY\n \n TO AMMEND SECTION 2923.11, 2923.17, AND 2923.20 AND TO ENACT \nN 2923.181 OF THE REVISED CODE TO EXPAND THE DEFINTION OF DANGEROUS \nORDINANCE TO INCLUDE MILITARY WEAPONS THAT DO NOT USE BOLT ACTION, TO \nINCREASE THE PENALTY FOR A VIOLATION OF THE PROHIBTION AGAINST POSSESION \nOF DANGEROUS ORDINANCE, TO PROHIBIT ANY PERSON FROM ACQUIRING A MILITARY \nWEAPON ON OR AFTER THE ACT'SEFFECTIVE DATE, TO REQUIRE THE LICENSURE OF \nMILITARY WEAPONS ACQUIRED FOR A PROPER PURPOSE PRIOR TO THE ACT'S \nEFFECTIVE DATE, TO PROHIBIT A PERSON FROM IMPORTING, MANUFACTURING, OR \nSELLING A MILITARY WEAPON, AND TO DECLARE AN EMERGENCY.\n \nAs of Monday, April 12, 1993 H.B. 278 had not been assigned to a \ncommittee. Introduced as an emergency measure if this passes there is no \nchance for a reforendum, and would go into effect immediately as opposed \nto the state requirement of 90 days before a law goes into effect.\n ", "\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\n\n The \"used to kill\" is the heart of the misinformation. It's one\nof those technically accurate phrasings that conveys the wrong impression.\nWhat Mr. Quiqley is more than aware of, I'm sure, is that when people\nread this they think violent arguments where one member of the family\ngrabs a gun and shoots another, thereby creating a tragic situation\nwhich could easily have been avoided had the gun not been there, or\na tragic accident, especially involving a child.\n\n Unfortunately, that's not the way things stack up. The majority\nof that 43 \"times\" (37 I believe) are suicides. That is, someone \nintentionally took a firearm and shot themselves intending to kill \nthemselves. And why it's popular to try and blame suicides on guns,\nthe evidence doesn't support this. Internal studies, as well as\ncomparative studies with other countries, indicate that cultural\nfactors far outweigh whether a person will kill themselves or not.\n(Japan, for instance, has a slightly higher rate than the U.S. There\npeople jump off buildings.)\n\n According to the National Crime Survey, 40% of violent crime\nis commited by \"non-strangers,\" which mistakenly has been generalized\nregarding the King County study to mean, \"Friends and family.\" That\nis, Mr. Quigley, and others who quote this statistic, are banking on\nthe mental image that a \"Friend, family member, or child,\" equates\nto a loving relationship, and that it was cut short in a moment of\nanger. Unfortunately, all too often husbands beat and kill wives,\nchildren assault parents, or vice-versa. Most rapes are commited by \nsomeone known to the victim, for instance. Essentially, that a gun\nwas used against a \"friend\" or family member doesn't mean they\nweren't trying to hurt the other person. Crime is highest among\npoor urban families, and those are also the areas most \"at risk\"\nfor family problems, especially violent ones. A son in a gang may\nnot be as loving toward his parents if they disapprove than a suburban\nkid might.\n\n Finally, it hinges on the fallacy that a dead intruder is the\nonly value of a self-defense firearm. Using the minimum figures I\nworked out using the NCS I got about an 80:1 ratio between deadly\nself-defenses (justifiable homicides) and with-gun self-defenses.\nBetween the FBI Uniform Crime report and the NCS there's an enormous\namount of data and anybody with the calculator can crunch the numbers.\nAs such it is incorrect to assume that a dead body is the only valid\nmeans of determining the success of such a defense, since according\nto the NCS (which has been considered by many to seriously under-report\ndefenses) there were far more successful with-gun defenses than intruders\nkilled.\n\n Not it also confines itself to the home, where attack by a \"friend\nor family member\" is far, far more likely, and excludes any defense\nwhich occurs outside the home. (I believe a large number occur in\nbusinesses.)\n\n\n I have not seen the exact data for this, so I can't comment. I\nwill point out Canada's and Japan's suicide rate as indications that\nculture far more than firearm availability affect suicide rates.\n\n There was also a comparative study between Canada (for what\nit's worth, considering the difficulty of comparing across cultural\nlines) published in the New England Journal of Medicine (I can get the\nexact cite if you need it) that concluded that restrictive firearm laws \nwould not significantly impact the over-all suicide rate.\n", "\nDid they or did they not sustain Miller's conviction? I don't have the\ntext of the case handy. \n\nYes, shotguns had been used in WWI, the Spanish-American War, and the\nUS Civil War. That was not in question. The possession of a sawed-off\nshotgun was, i.e., a weapon altered to improve concealibility.\n\n\nYou are free to produce evidence that I'm not willing to abide with\nall the implications of this. \n\nJust because I don't whole-heartedly endorse the NRA position does not\nmean that I oppose the RKBA. This attitude is what makes the NRA\nunpopular.\n", "\n\n I'm neither a doctor nor a firearms tech expert, but it would seem\nthat given the way a holstered gun points, accidental injuries inflicted\nthat way would be among the least lethal.\n", "\nWhy? If you're not a threat, you're not affected at all.\n\n\nWhy? I note that the available psych info says that feelings of\nsecurity INCREASE. The victimization stats say that that increase\nis rational.\n\n\nYes, they are, but how?\n\n\nNope - that doesn't happen. Instead the switch (among those who\nchange behaviors) to property crimes. That's an improvement even if\nthe economic take is unchanged. Sure - not everyone switches, but\nthey were killing before.\n\n-andy", "\n\nSo instead you are asking individual citizens to place themselves at risk\nby assuming that everyone who claims to be a cop, actually is a cop.\nAround here the police have actually made public service announcements saying\nthat if you are a lady driving by yourself at night and you see blue lights\nflashing behind you. Do not pull over until you reach a well lit, preferably\noccupied place, gas station etc.\n\n\nIt wouldn't be murder, it would be self defense.", "\n\n That's nice. We strive for entertainment value. :-) \n\n\n In the first place, you have to realize the feeling goes both\nways. Canadians laugh at the U.S., and Americans simply shrug and\nwoner why the hell we let them be a State in the first place. ;-) \n\n\n Interesting strategy, posting here with complaints about\npeople elsewhere.\n\n\n Courtesy is apparently a dead commodity in the rest of the\ncivilized world. \"Gun nut morons,\" indeed. \n\n\n We've got guns, they've got a monarch and an economy on the verg\nof collapse. Finger pointing across the Atlanticis a waste or time.\n\n\n Canada has been blaming the U.S. for their problems for years.\nThe simple fact of the matter is this: Ten years ago they crowed about\nhow great their system was because they'd gotten rid of the guns and\nthe U.S. would be so much better if they'd just get into the divine light\nshining from the North. We pointed out that it was cultural differences,\nand pointed to their pre-control crime rates. We also pointed out that\nthe history of the entire world contained smuggling, and that whenever\nsomething was wanted, it was smuggled in.\n If the problem were based on U.S. guns, it would have surfaced\nyears before.\n\n Now more Canadian criminals want guns. And they are being provided.\nCanada has its own version of the drug problem. Yet drugs are prohibited\nin the U.S.\n\n\n Saw a news report out of Britain that armed crime is on the rise,\nand several police agencies are considering have permanent \"firearms\nofficers\" to deal with it.\n\n According to U.S. News & World Report, British handgun deaths have\nrisen over 250% over the past twelve years. The U.S. number has dropped\n5%.\n\n Maybe they're smuggling them across the U.S./U.K. border. Yeah,\nthat's the ticket.\n\n\n Have a nice day, Steve. Learn a little common courtesy and\npoliteness.\n", "\nBy this, do you mean that you consider it absolutely impossible for the\nmedia to be guilty of hypocrisy?\n\nNote that the film industry in California traded their political support\nfor an \"assault weapon\" ban in the state for an amendment to the bill\nexempting the entertainment industry from that very ban.\n\nNote that the very issue of the Batman comic book (\"Seduction of the Gun\")\nthat was produced as a tool for gun-control organizations carries a back-\npage ad for a \"Terminator II\" video game extolling the numerous and\nvaried sophisticated weapons available to the player.\n\nNote that Arthur Ochs Sulzberger, publisher of the NY Times -- one of the\noldest and most incessant gun-control grinders -- himself carries a\nconcealed handgun.\n\nStill, you find it completely incredible that these folks live by the \naphorism, \"Do as I say, and not as I do.\"\n-- ", "\nWell, I would guess the probability of a BMW driver having a gun would\nbe lower than some other vehicles. At least, I would be more likely \nto say something to someone in a luxosedan, than a hopped-up pickup\ntruck, for example.\n\n- Mark\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\nMark S. Burnham (markb@wc.novell.com) AMA#668966 DoD#0747 \nAlfa Romeo GTV-6 '90 Ninja 750", "/ iftccu:talk.politics.guns / hays@ssd.intel.com (Kirk Hays) / 3:31 pm Apr 13, 1993 /\n\n\nGood point, Kirk.\n\nHe's still around too. He's responded by email to a couple of my posts, \nand gosh darn, he's gotten down right civil! This happed about the time \nhe got his first firearm. Wonder if there is a relationship here? Turns\nout that MOST people (at least the ones who are not criminals to start\nwith) act responsibility once given the chance.", "[ ... ]\n\nThen it also supports basing such regulations on ignorance.\n\nMiller had disappeared, and nobody bothered to present _his_\nside to the Supreme Court -- in particular, that sawed-off\nshotguns were used in the World War I trenches, and in other\ntight spots ever since guns had been invented. Would _you_\nturn one down if you had to \"clean\" an alley in E. St. Louis?", "\nI have the April 15, 1993 issue of the SF Chronicle in my lap. Page\nE7 (in the \"Sporting Green\" section) has a Trader's advert. (The\ncopy is a bit screwed up - it says that the prices offered expire\n4-14-93, but the ad is there.)\n\nThe SF Examiner and Chronicle run the same set of adverts (because\nthey have a joint printing/biz agreement and differ only in editorial\ncontent).\n\nI've seen gun ads recently in the merc, which is anti-gun editorially,\nalbeit not from traders, but from its competitors.\n\nI don't know about the other papers.\n\nDoes Traders claim that things are changing? When?\n\n\nBecause it's easier than telling the truth and no one much cares\neither way.\n\n\nBefore you do, make sure that the bozos are actually doing what\nyou're accusing them of.\n\n-andy", "#\n# Which Article of the Constitution gives me the right of revolution if things\n# seem to be going cockeyed??\n#\n# Hmmm...\n# --\n# Peter G. White, President, Synthesis 93 Inc.\n# Milwaukee, Wisconsin, U.S.A.\n# Peter.White@mixcom.com\n", ": You are loosing.\n: There is no question about it. \n: Of those who vote, your cause is considered an abomination. No matter\n: how hard you try, public opinion is set against the RKBA. \n\n Care to show some *real* numbers instead of something HCI make up?\n I thought so, all \"foaming at the mouth\" shouting but nothing is \n ever said...\n \n: This is the end. By the finish of the Clinton administration, your\n: RKBA will be null and void. Tough titty.\n\n Well, we'll just have to wait and see about that, won't we? Or are\n you quite satisified with living in your little fantasy?\n \n< SNIP >\n: cases of firearms abuses has ruined your cause. There is nothing you\n< SNIP >\n: The press is against you, the public (the voting public) is against\n: you, the flow of history is against you ... this is it !\n\n Not true, it is ONLY those who are ignorant and are afraid to understand,\n accept, and deal with the real problems behind this violent society \n who are proposing gun control as a band-aid solution. May be I should \n refresh your memory with a quote from Prez. Clintion? \n\n \"It's the criminals, stupid!\" \n\n HEY, why is he cutting the budget for more prisons? May be someone need \n to remind him of what he promised...on second thought, why bother...\n\n: Surrender your arms. Soon enough, officers will be around to collect\n: them. Resistance is useless. They will overwhelm you - one at a time.\n: Your neighbors will not help you. They will consider you more if an\n: immediate threat than the abstract 'criminal'. \n\n Oooh, WACO II, coming to your living room soon... When was the last\n time you turned off your TV? Can't remember? I thought so...\n\n: Too fucking bad. You have gone the way of the KKK. Violent solutions\n: are passe'. Avoid situations which encourage criminals. Then you will\n: be as safe as possible. Such as it is ...\n\n Wait, I got it, this is a late April fool post, right? I didn't\n think ANYBODY is stupid enough to post something like this...good one\n guys, this group was getting boring without Holly and Susan. ", "\nSo what. We think you're pretty hilarious too.\n\nI love how you Brit's kiss royal arse. That you're willing to throw\nout freedom-of-speech for the sake of protecting the reputation of the\nroyal sluts.\n\nThat the British government advertised in American newspapers \"Send A Gun\nto Defend a British Home -- British civilians, faced with threat of\ninvasion, desperately need arms for the defense of their homes.\" during\nWWII. [American Rifleman November, 1940]\n\nThat The Obscene Publications Act and the Misuse of Drugs Act have been\nused as justification for the police to seize masterpieces such as William\nS. Burrough's \"Junky\", Hunter Thompson's \"Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas\",\nand Tom Wolfe's \"The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test\". British courts have\nnever recognized the right to assemble or to demonstrate.\n\nThat evidence obtained form coerced confessions is allowed in a trial.\n\nThat only serious felonies warrant a trial by jury.\n\nThat suspected terrorists must prove their innocence, instead of the\ngovernment having to prove their guilt.\n\nThat the secretary of state may issue an \"exclusionary order\" which\nbars someone from ever entering a particular part of the United Kingdom,\nsuch as Northern Ireland or Wales.\n\nThat the BBC banned Paul McCartney's \"Give Ireland Back to the Irish\"\nas well as John Lennon's \"Give Peace a Chance\" during the Gulf War.\n\nYes, England is very very funny. And very pathetic.\n\n\nSo what. Laughter is a way of dealing with things we find uncomfortable.\nI thought the \"Las Vegas Show Girl\" ads on Las Vegas street corners were\npretty funny.\n\nYes indeed, there are many strange and wonderous things in this country.\nI wouldn't have it any other way.\n\n\nI don't disagree with that, I don't think it's bad either.\n\n\nSo what. If they didn't come from here they would come from elsewhere\ndisguised as cocaine.\n\n\nYou can laugh all you want, for us it's a matter of life or death.\nI don't find that funny in the least.\n\nAs for England:\n\n\"As our allies become more open, Britain grow yet more secretive and\ncensorious. Perhaps the real British vice is passivity, a willingness\nto tolerate constraints which others would find unbearble.\" [in \"Britain,\nAn Unfree Country\" by Terrence DeQuesne and Edward Goodman, pp 33.]", "Excerpts from netnews.talk.politics.guns: 18-Apr-93 2ND AMENDMENT DEAD -\nGOOD ! by jrm@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu \n\nexcerpted from a letter I wrote a while ago:\n\n Although less apparent to those who have not researched\nthe facts, personal protection is as legitimate a reason as\nsport for the private citizen to own a gun. The most recent\nresearch is that of Dr. Gary Kleck of the Florida State\nUniversity School of Criminology.1 He found that handguns\nare more often used by victims to defeat crime than by\ncriminals to commit it (645,000 vs. 580,000 respectively in\nthis study). These figures are even more encouraging when\nyou consider the number of crimes that never occur because\nof the presence of a gun in the hands of a law-abiding\nprivate citizen. In a National Institute of Justice study\nof ten state prisons across the country they found that 39%\nof the felons surveyed had aborted at least one crime\nbecause they believed that the intended victim was armed.,\nand 57% agreed that \"most criminals are more worried about\nmeeting an armed victim than they are about running into the\npolice.\"2\n One of the most heinous of crimes is that against the\nwomen of this country. It has been my recent observation\nthat more women are purchasing handguns for defense in\nresponse to the present danger of these assaults. This\nshould be taken as encouraging news if the events of Orlando\nFlorida are any indicator. In the late 1960's the female\npopulace was plagued with a series of brutal assaults; just\nthe publicity of the record number of women buying guns and\nobtaining training resulted in an 88% decrease in rape for\nthat area, the only city of its size in the country to\nexperience a decrease of crime for that year. Additionally,\na 1979 US Justice Department study of 32,000 attempted rapes\nshowed that overall, when rape is attempted, the completion\nrate is 36%. But when a woman defends herself with a gun,\nthe completion rate drops to 3%.\n \n1 G Kleck, Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America Aldine\nde Gruyter, NY, 1991\n2 JD Wright & PH Rossi Armed and Considered Dangerous: A\nSurvey of Felons and Their Firearms, Aldine de Gruyter, NY,\n1986\n-------\n\n__________________________________________________________________________\n[unlike cats] dogs NEVER scratch you when you wash them. They just\nbecome very sad and try to figure out what they did wrong. -Dave Barry", "\n\nShooting those .44 cal. blanks, I suspect. Them movie guys is dangerous.\n\n\nPractice with them, I hope.\n-- ", "\nWell, if police think they are so special that only _THEY_ are worthy\nof self-defense, perhaps we start putting the arm on police; maybe\nwe should start demanding that police are only police when ON-DUTY,\nthat after that they are just like the ordinary disarmed helpless\nchumps they consider \"civilians.\"\n\nLet's prohibit arms carrying by police when off-duty. Or, if they make\nthe assertion that \"Well, I need to maintain my gun\" let's make it\nregulation that they can carry an UNLOADED firearm home, that it's\nonly fair that they be just as helpless as poor schmuck coming home\nfrom his computer operator job...\n\nNRA Director/ex-San Jose cop Leroy Pyle states in the latest SWAT\nmagazine that anti-cops better watch out for this schism between\nRKBA folks and the police. He asks the rhetorical question of 'What\nif what's left of the gun lobby starts demanding the disarmament\nof the police?\"", "[followups to talk.politics.guns]\n\nrl> Russell Lawrence\nkr> Karl Rominger\n\nkr> I support the right of any citizen with out a criminal history to own and\n use firearms, regardless of race, gender, and RELIGION.\n\nrl> Thanks for admitting that you, yourself, adhere to an illogical dogma.\n\n Well, folks in t.p.guns, want to show how Russell's \"illogical dogma\" is\n wrong?\n", "\tOh, OK. Just wondering. I am not a real expert on weapons, I was just\nwondering if they would do the job.", "\n[Warning: Flammage to follow...]\n\nAh, that British sense of humor. Probably got a real gut-buster going\nwhen the IRA blew that kid up a couple of weeks ago, huh? Of course,\nin Britain, your government has ordered you defenseless, so your way\nof coping with violent criminals is to laugh at victims.\n\n\nI don't know about a .45. My own preference is for 9mm.\n\n\nAh, Canada. Where the criminals don't bother with checking to see\nif the victims are home. They just break on in. America's a little\ndifferent, you see. Criminals worry a bit more about getting shot,\nso they more frequently check to see if anyone's home.\n\n\nI've heard Gun World in Phoenix, Arizona, is fantastic! I'm hoping\nto visit there myself soon.\n\n\nAh, Britain again. Isn't that the place where you're guilty until\nproven innocent? Tell me, Mr. \"jaj@vax.oxford.ac.uk\" didn't Britain\ncome begging to us \"gun nut morons\" in the early 1940s for guns to\ndefend yourselves against Hitler? Seems as though your supposedly \nenlightened government had disarmed you: \"Aw chaps, you can jolly\ngive up your guns. If that Hitler man starts to threaten, we can \nalways hit up the Yanks for a few guns. They've got a bloody\neccentric habit about those guns, you know. Just hand in your\nshotgun, that's it. Thank you.\" \n\n\nAin't it just amazing how those black markets work? Damn if those\ndrugs from south america keep coming over our borders, too, even\nthough we've banned them. Guess we might as well legalize them. \nMakes you want to send fifty bucks to the Libertarian Party just\nthinking about it, doesn't it? \n\nYour close-minded ignorance is without parallel. I guess that's what\nhappens when you're raised as a \"subject\" without rights. Your\ntype gravitates to those who desire to hold power over you.\n\n\nJust chuckle as the cops beat you senseless to get a confession.\nJust laugh yourself silly when you find that confession is valid\nin court. \"Hey mate, this is justice, British style.\" \n\nDrew ", "There are actually a few important things we can glean from this mess:\n1)\tWhen they start getting desperate for an answer to the question: \"What's\nit all about. Mr. Natural?\", pinkboys will buy darn near *anything*, which\nmeans:\n2)\tThere's still plenty of $$$$ to be made in the False Jesus business\nby enterprising SubGenii. Just remember that:\n3)\tOnce you've separated the pinks from their green, don't blow it all\non automatic weapons from Mexico. Put it in a Swiss bank account. Smile a\nlot. Have your flunkies hand out flowers in airports. The Con will just\nshrug you off as long as:\n4)\tYou never, never, NEVER start to believe your own bulldada! If\n\"David Koresh\" hand't started swallowing his own \"apocalypso now\" crap, he'd\nbe working crossword puzzles in the Bahamas today instead of contributing to\nthe mulch layer in Waco. This is because:\n5)\tWhen you start shooting at cops, they're likely to shoot back. And \nmost of 'em are better shots than you are.\n\n\tIn short:\n\t- P.T. Barnum was right \n\t\tand\n\t- Stupidity is self-correcting\nThus endeth the lesson.", "\nI guess what I am really asking, like I did above, how does my government\nwho is my servent, tell me the soveriegn what I can or cannot possess?\n\nIt would seem to me that the act of possessing a machine gun is no less\n\"criminal\", by definition, than the act of possessing a television set. I also would seem\nto me that it would be better to pass laws that say, that if I harm\nor kill someone with the machine gun or the television set that there \nwould be specific penalties for doing such. \n\n\nSorry, I was close.\n\n\n\n", "\nEven if they outlawed private posession of firearms, there would be no moral\nforce behind that law; I imagine compliance would be low.", "I'm writting letters to my Congresscritters and was wondering if\n there is any reason(s) why I should NOT support the following\n Bills, other than the previous comments about S.458. Just checking\n before I mail the letter to make sure I don't support something\n that I really shouldn't.\n\n -----------------\n I strongly SUPPORT the following laws currently being considered in Congress\n as they would either have a positive effect towards reducing crime, or re-\n enforce our Constitutional right under the 2nd amendment.\n\n * S. 441 (Campbell)\tTo amend title 18, United States Code, to provide a\n\t\t\tmandatory minimum sentence for the unlawful possession\n\t\t\tof a firearm by a convicted felon, a fugitive from\n\t\t\tjustice, a person who is addicted to, or an unlawful\n\t\t\tuser of, a controlled substance, or a transferor or\n\t\t\treceiver of a stolen firearm, to increase the general\n\t\t\tpenalty for violation of Federal firearms laws,\n\t\t\tand to increase the enhanced penalties provided for the \n\t\t\tpossession of a firearm in connection with a crime of \n\t\t\tviolence or drug trafficking crime, and for other\n\t\t\tpurposes.\n\n * S.458 (Smith) \tTo restore the second Amendment Rights of all Americans.\n\n * S.488 (Specter)\tTo provide Federal penalties for drive-by shootings.\n\n * S.504 (Kohl)\tTo amend section 924 of title 18, United States Code to\n\t\t\tmake it a Federal crime to steal a firearm or explosives\n\t\t\tin interstate or foreign commerce.\n\n\n Bill Vojak\n vojak@icebucket.stortek.com\n\t\t\t\tNRA, ILA,\n Colorado Firearms Coalition\n-----------------------------------------------------------------\n Here's a story, bout a man named Brady, who took a .22 bullet\n in his head. Even though he can act perfectly normal, he\n prefers to pretend he's brain dead.\n\n Here's a story, bout a woman named Brady, who had nothing to\n do but sit around all day. Then her husband became a media\n martyr, now she wants to take all your guns away.\n\n The Brady Bunch, The Brady Bunch, This is how we got stuck\n with the Brady Bunch. . . . .", "\n\nFret not, you made it.\n\n\nNot while we still have our guns. \n\nHey, gang, it's not about duck hunting, or about dark alleys,\nit's about black-clad, helmeted and booted troops storming\nhouses and violating civil rights under color of law. \n\nAre YOU ready to defend YOUR Constitution?", "long\n\nThe NRA is successful because (among a number of things), on the drop of\na hat, they can get a congresspersons office flooded with postcards,\nfaxes and phone calls. Certainly, with our way-cool Internet powers of\norganization, we can act in the same way, if such action is appropriate.\n\nAs long as we are kept informed of events, anyone on this bboard can make\na call to action. Hopefully, we're a strong enough community to act on\nthose calls. I realize this is a little optomistic, and I'm glad EFF is\nworking in the loop on these issues, but don't underestimate the\npotential of the net for political action.", "\nThey do. According the the Los Angeles Police Department, illegal\nmanufacture is one the three primary sources of machine guns and\nsubmachine guns used in crimes (sumggling and theft from the\npolice and military being the other two.) Washington D.C. police\nhave stated that 40% (If I'm remembering the figure correctly) of\nthe guns they conficate were illegally built.\n\n\nIt takes about 6 hours and a few tools to make one (at least one\nof reasonable quality). Unless the drug dealer enjoyes messing\naround on a lathe (say, as a hobby), he's going to have to \npay someone anyway. Materials plus six hours of a machinist's\ntime for something legal would run about $100. The blackmarket\nprices for guns are usually in the $50 to $200 range (at least\nthose few I've seen cited in newspaper articles were...)\n\n\nWashington D.C. has a total ban on handguns and prohibits assembled\nrifles within city limits. It's homicide rate is almost ten\ntimes the national average. It is also illegal for a D.C.\nresident to drive to the Virginia or Maryland suburbs and\nbuy a gun (dealers are required by federal law to check IDs\nand make sure the buyer isn't from another state) so the ban \ncan not be easily side-stepped.\n\n\nSure. But it you couldn't buy one, you would write your own (in\nfact, people _did_ write their own 15 years ago...) More likely,\nyou would find a friend who was a particularly good programer\nand get him give you a copy of his. Software is a _very_ bad\nexample for your case: How many people do you know with illegal\ncopies of $400 word processors? If people want something, and\nit isn't available (or affordable) legally, they will usually\nget it illegally.\n\n\nQuite.\n\n\n13-3-2. The formula has been around for half a million years.\nOr are you going to restrict sales of sulpher, charcoal and\nsaltpeter? That's alot cruder than modern smokless powder, but\nit works very well. The only real problems are a ~25% reduction\nin energy (so a .357 magnum would \"only\" be as deadly as a 9mm)\nand it makes alot more smoke... Of course, a smart black marketeer\ncould just make the gun in 9mm and steal the ammunition from the\npolice (the police are often corruptable, and things are known\nto disappear from police evidence rooms and armories and\nreappear on the streets...)\n\n\nPerhaps you weren't watching the news two years ago, but the Serbs \nalso tried to invade Slovinia. They were driven out after a few\nweeks by partisans armed with home-made _anti-tank_ weapons.\nThe Afghan rebels frequently made their own rifles. ", "\n\n Currently, there is a bill before the Texas legislature that would make it\nlegal for some ordinary folks to carry concealed weapons. I don't have the\ndetails, sorry.\n\nsemper fi,", "\n\n\n\n\nI don't sign any blank checks.\n\nWhen Doug Foxvog says \"weapons of mass destruction,\" he means CBW and\nnukes. When Sarah Brady says \"weapons of mass destruction\" she means\nStreet Sweeper shotguns and semi-automatic SKS rifles. When John\nLawrence Rutledge says \"weapons of mass destruction,\" and then immediately\nfollows it with:\n\n\n...what does Rutledge mean by the term?\n-- ", "There are actually a few important things we can glean from this mess:\n1)\tWhen they start getting desperate for an answer to the question: \"What's\nit all about. Mr. Natural?\", pinkboys will buy darn near *anything*, which\nmeans:\n2)\tThere's still plenty of $$$$ to be made in the False Jesus business\nby enterprising SubGenii. Just remember that:\n3)\tOnce you've separated the pinks from their green, don't blow it all\non automatic weapons from Mexico. Put it in a Swiss bank account. Smile a\nlot. Have your flunkies hand out flowers in airports. The Con will just\nshrug you off as long as:\n4)\tYou never, never, NEVER start to believe your own bulldada! If\n\"David Koresh\" hand't started swallowing his own \"apocalypso now\" crap, he'd\nbe working crossword puzzles in the Bahamas today instead of contributing to\nthe mulch layer in Waco. This is because:\n5)\tWhen you start shooting at cops, they're likely to shoot back. And \nmost of 'em are better shots than you are.\n\n\tIn short:\n\t- P.T. Barnum was right \n\t\tand\n\t- Stupidity is self-correcting\nThus endeth the lesson.", "\n\n\nIt works for me. I avoid obscenities, and try to remain calm cool and \ncollected, and try something like, \"You almost just killed me, and I'm not \nmoving until you apologize.\" or something more or less benign like that. I \nhaven't been shot a single time, but I don't do it in Texas, and I do only \ndo it when there are plenty of witnesses around.", "The Colorado Daily recently reprinted the Wall Street Journal's article\non Paxton Quigley, including the nefarious little paragraph the Journal\ntacked onto the end. After recieving much assistance from various T.P.G.\ntype folks, I wrote a letter to the editor criticizing this last paragraph,\nand surprise, surprise, surprise, they published it. The text follows.\nThe Colorado Daily, btw, is the University of Colorado (Boulder) student\n(I think) newspaper... not exactly a big coup, but every little bit, i guess...\n\n(The title was the only thing they changed/added)\n\n\"Gun Stats\"\n\nThe Daily recently reprinted an article from the\nWall Street Journal, primarily concerned with Paxton\nQuigley, author of \"Armed and Female.\" The article,\nin turn, cites a misleading statistic that was originally\nreported in the New England Journal of Medicine. The\narticle states, \"A study... found that a gun in the home\nwas 43 times more likely to be used to kill its owner,\nspouse, a friend, or child than to kill an intruder.\" This\nis an often-quoted statistic, and it is misleading for sev-\neral reasons, outlined below:\n\nThe study gives the impression that, if you own a \ngun, the likelihood that you will successfully use it to \ndefend yourself is less than that of the gun being turned\nagainst you. The study, however, fails to take into\naccount cases where a law-abiding citizen uses a gun \nto thwart a crime, without actually killing the perpe-\ntrator.\n\nThe study actually refers to 'acquaintances' rather\nthan 'friend'. This would include the friendly neigh-\nborhood thug who shows up like clockwork, every\nmonth, the second your grandmother cashes her social\nsecurity check. Possibly an acquaintance, but hardly a\nfriend.\n\nThe NEJM study is based on the immediate dis-\nposition of cases and fails to take into account cases\noriginally filed as homicides that were later ruled to be\nself-defense. Especially considering the small sample \nsize (396), taking these events into account has a sub-\nstantial effect on the 43:1 ratio quoted.\n\nCriminologist Gary Kleck gives us a slightly dif-\nerent statistic: a gun is 33 times more likely to be \nused, successfully, by a private citizen against an \naggressor than it is to kill anyone at all. Further, per-\nsons defending themselves from aggression by using a \ngun fare better than those who resist vicimization by\nsome other means, or who offer no resistance at all.\nStatistics available from the FBI and other agencies \nalso show that a gun is 245 times more likely to be\nused by a non-criminal to defend against criminal threat\nthan to be used to commit criminal homicide, 535 times\nmore likely to be used to defend against a criminal\nthreat than to accidentally kill anybody, and 50 times\nmore likely to defend against criminal threat than to be\nused to commit suicide.\n\nIt is well to keep in mind that nearly anything can \nbe proved by uncritical quotation of statistics. One has\nto consider carefully what questions were asked by\nthose gathering the data before one can draw an accu-\nrate conclusion from them.\n\nD.F. Taylor\nCU Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry\n\n\n--\nSpooksmoke: Revolution, Assasination, Thorium, Cobalt-60, Clintin, CIA, NSA, SHC\n DoD #202 / loki@acca.nmsu.edu / liberty or death / taylordf@ucsu.colorado.edu \n Send me something even YOU can't read...\n-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----\nVersion: 2.2", "Re: More on Gun Buybacks\n\nThe Denver buy back, trading guns for Denver Nuggets tickets was pretty much\na bust. Very few guns were turned in. The news tried to hype it but \nwhen the best they could do was \".... including a loaded .38...\" well,\nyou get the picture.\n\nA side note- the news also reported that the guns would be checked for\nwhether or not they were stolen. STOLEN GUNS WILL BE RETURNED TO THEIR\nOWNERS!!!!! (They say)\n\n(Does this have anything to do with the rally on the Capital steps yesterday\n in support of the RKBA????)\n\nEven the rally made the 5 pm news on 3 channels :-)\n", "\nThe number bounces between 2% and 18%, depending on the study quoted and\nthe type of gun being studied.\n\nSome cites:\n\n---------------------------------------\n\nA recent BATF study (titled \"Protecting America, Yes\") surveyed 471 career \ncriminals and found that only 7% of guns used in violent crimes were\npurchased from retail dealers.\n\n---------------------------------------\n\nNational Institute of Justice\nResearch in Brief\n\nNovember 1986\n\n The Armed Criminal in America\n by James D. Wright\n\n(1) Legitimate firearms retailers play only a minor role as direct\n sources of handguns for adult felony offenders.\n\nOnly about one-sixth of the gun-owning felons obtained their most\nrecent handguns through a customary retail transaction involving a\nlicensed firearms dealer. The remainder -- five out of six --\nobtained them via informal, off-the-record transactions involving\nfriends and associates, family members, and various black market\noutlets. The means of acquisition from these informal sources\nincluded cash purchase, swaps and trades, borrowing and renting, and\noften theft. The criminal handgun market is overwhelmingly dominated\nby informal transactions and theft as mechanisms of supply.\n\n---------------------------------------\n\nINDEPENDENCE ISSUE PAPER No. 4- 91\nIndependence Institute\n14142 Denver West Parkway #101\nGolden, CO 80401 \n(303) 279-6536\n\n WHY GUN WAITING PERIODS THREATEN PUBLIC SAFETY\n By David B. Kopel\n\n The basic problem with waiting periods is shown by a Bureau of Alcohol,\nTobacco and Firearms study of gun dealer sales in Des Moines and Greenville.\nThe study found that about one to two percent of sales were to dangerous\ncriminals.[51] In short, waiting periods have no statistically noticeable\nimpact on any type of crime because only a tiny fraction of crime guns\nare purchased at retail by ineligible buyers.\n\n51. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, Assistant Director of Criminal\nEnforcement, Memorandum to Director, July 10, 1975 (Greenville survey; of\n20,047 names submitted to FBI for record checks, 68 had felony convictions;\nof those, 41 had not been represented by counsel at their conviction or who\ncommitted crimes in the distant past; twenty-seven buyers were prosecuted)\n(of the 1.3% of buyers selected for prosecution, .9% had non-violent felony\nconvictions, and .4% had violent convictions). Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and\nFirearms, Assistant Director for Criminal Enforcement, memorandum to\nDirector, May 8, 1975 (of 374 records checked, 39 were purchasers with felony\nrecords who were not appropriate for prosecution because of age or\nnon-violent nature of felony; six purchasers were prosecuted).\n\n---------------------------------------\n\nINDEPENDENCE ISSUE PAPER No. 12-91\n\n THE ASSAULT WEAPON PANIC:\n POLITICAL CORRECTNESS\" TAKES AIM\n AT THE CONSTITUTION\n\n By Eric Morgan and David Kopel\n\n Testimony before Congress revealed that most \"assault weapons\" in the\nhands of criminals were obtained through illegal channels.{97} The testimony\nis consistent with the National Institute of Justice's research findings\nbased on studies of felons in state prisons. The NU study, authored by\nsociologists James D. Wright and Peter Rossi found that only sixteen percent\nof criminals had obtained their most recent handgun from a gun store. (The\nfigures included purchases by legal surrogates, rather than directly by the\ncriminal.) Wright and Rossi, who had begun their research as firm proponents\nof gun control, concluded that no set of controls on retail purchases, and\nprobably not even full scale gun prohibition, would reduce criminal use of\nguns. Wright and Rossi suggested that lawmakers concerned about gun crime\ndirectly target the black market in criminal guns, and\nleave the legitimate retail market alone.{98} Not surprisingly, Wright\nbelieves that the consequences of current \"assault weapon\" legislation on\nstreet violence are likely to be ineffective.{99} He warns that gun\ncontrols aimed at ordinary citizens are less likely to reduce the pool of\ncriminal guns than to provide organized crime with lucrative new\nbusiness.{100}\n\n6. _See, _e.g., The Anti-drug, Assault Weapons Limitation Act of 1989. S.\nRep. No. 160, 101st. Cong., 1st. Sess. 6-8 (1989) [hereinafter SENATE REPORT]\n(introduced by Senator DeConcini to reduce semiautomatic firearms abuse by\ndrug traffickers and violent criminals); Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control\nAct of 1989, CAL. PENAL CODE $$ 12275-12290 (West 1990) [hereinafter Roberti-\nRoos]; MD. ANN. CODE art. 27 $$ 442,481E (1989) (placing greater restrictions\non 17 varieties of \"assault weapons,\" and providing punishments for failure\nto comply or attempts to evade).\n\n97. SENATE REPORT, _supra note 6, at 17.\n\n98. James Wright & Peter Rossi, ARMED AND CONSIDERED DANGEROUS: A SURVEY OF\nFELONS AND THEIR FIREARMS (New York: Aldine de Gruyter, 1986).\n\n99. _Lock _and _Load _for _the _Gunfight _of _'89, U.S. NEWS & WORLD REP.,\nMarch 27, 1989, at 9 [hereinafter _Gunfight]. Wright also said, \"If criminals\ncan get all the drugs they want, they can get guns, too.\" _Id.\n\n100. James Wright, \"Second Thoughts About Gun Control,\" 91 _The _Public\n_Interest (Spring 1988), at 30-3 1.\n", "\"We\" know because the area that the gun shop/shooting range is in is right on\nthe border of the west side of Chicago. That is a gang infested area. There\nare many, many bad things going on in that area. Also, I have several friends\nthat live very close to that area who have had problems with some of these\nfolks. By the way, where did I say that they were minorities? Do you think\nthat only minorities have gangs? Not so. As far as the quotes are concerned\nit was totally obvious that they weren't just practicing for marksmanship. I\ndon't know about you but I have never seen anyone else practice marksmanship by\ntaking their gun out of their coat as fast as possible and start shooting. If\nyou would have been there Andy it would've been obvious to you too. Of course\nit might not have been. Who knows. All I do know is that I was there, I live\nhere and I know that they were gang bangers. When you live here long enough it\nbecomes pretty easy to spot them via gang colors, gang signs, etc. One last\nthing. My sister is a social worker. She makes it her point to find these\nthings out (gang signs, colors, etc) because it is in her best interest to do\nso. She is nice enough to let me know these things so I can watch out for\nmyself as I live right on the border of the west side of the city. Enough said.", "\nIn my case I am alive thanks to a gun, that is provable..\neven in your twisted logic.\n\n\nNo... Wrong again brain trust.. \n\n\nHuh? What planet are you from? \n\n\nWrong... Not as long as freedom remains ..\n\nPS: Get a Dictionary..\n", "Well, I dropped by the library yesterday, and picked up back copies\nof the National Crime Survey (1986-1990) in an effort to examine what\nit said about self-defense with a firearm.\n\n I haven't ground through much in the way of numbers yet, but a couple\nof things jumped out at me. First only 1986 and 1987 specify the type of\nweapon used in self defense. 1988, 1989, and 1990 refer only to \"weapon.\"\nThe second is that while assaults rose about 3% from 1986 to 1987, w/gun\ndefenses reported *fell* by almost 25%. Unless there's an explanation for\nthis, I'm tempted to mark it as a reporting problem, and as such going \nahead with any examination of the numbers would be a waste of time.\n\n Anybody have an idea what might have cause a real difference, and\nnot just a reporting difference? The survey doesn't appear to have\nchanged significantly between 1986 and 1987.\n", "\n Here's a question: If most marijuana is domestic and\nproducing it here is economical, why would we expect it to be\nimported?\n\n\n Yet it was done. Done quite successfully for a number of years.\n*Somebody* thought it was worth the risk.\n\n\n Your assumption is that this \"low\" dollar/pound area is\nsufficiently low as to make gun-running unprofitable. On what\ndo you base this? \n\n And given that smuggling channels are already established,\nand given the economies of scale, would it really add significantly\nmore expense to start smuggling firearms, especially considering\ndoing so would be less hazardous (in terms of getting caught) than\ndrugs?\n\n\n Now *that* was a jump. In any case, define \"local.\" It's\na big country.\n \n\n Wow, you gotta love the speculation.\n\n As I posted before, we import billions upon billions of raw\nores across the Mexican border. Not only that but ships come in and\nout of U.S. harbors every day full stuff. And customs doesn't even\nhave the extra advantage of being able to sniff them out. \n\n I'd be willing to wager that a shipload of handguns would be\nworth more than a shipload of raw ore, *and* you're virtually guaranteed\nto get it past customs, because they'd have to hand search every hold of\nevery ship which came through.\n\n It's not simply a matter of how much money are they worth, but how\nmuch *more* money are they worth than other goods, based on the likelihood\nof being caught. Less money than drugs, but also a safer thing to smuggle.\n", "} \tThe vast majority get through life without ever having to\n} \town, use or display a firearm.\n} ...\n} \n} Given society\n} \tas we now experience it - it seems safer to get rid of\n} \tas many guns as possible.\n\nConsidering that the uses include self defense, hunting, target shooting\nand collecting, I don't buy the notion that the vast majority of people\ndon't \"own, use or display a firearm\".\n\nBut let's say your contention is true. What's the point of \"get[ting]\nrid of as many guns as possible\", if they weren't being used anyway?", "\n\n How about \"firearm related.\"\n\n\n Texas is unusual in this regard. It would be nice to reduce them\nboth, though.\n\n As Texas doesn't appear to have an murder rate that much higher than\nthe national average, I would expect it is a result of a much higher\nsuicide rate.\n\n\n Be nice if you didn't have to suffer at all.\n\n\n Here's where we run into a problem. I am perfectly willing to\nhave government regulation on something which is likely to cause others\nharm. What we're discussing, though, is the extreme regulation of a large\ngroup in order to target a small group, and I don't think that's\nappropriate. \n\n\n Does this, then, justify anything? At some point you have to draw\na line (at least to my way of thinking) where the government must have\nsomething a little more substantial than a set of percentages with which\nto punish an individual.\n\n Where do *you* draw the line? Or is there one?\n\n\n Virginia. It passed.\n\n\n Does it?\n\n\n Cute analogy. \n\n The U.S. doesn't treat drunk driving like a serious crime. However,\nwe also don't confiscate cars of people who drink. We also don't confiscate\n*all* cars because some people drink and drive. It's the core of the legal\nsystem that in order to punish an individual (and I'd call property\nconfiscation a punishment) you must have evidence against that individual.\nThat is, it isn't enough to show that the majority of people convicted of\nmurder are white in order to convict a particular white guy of murder.\n\n\n Huh?", "Post all you want, foreigner. We'd rather hear from you\nthan those \"I'll support the fascist who writes the\nhecks for my salary\" .edu site types!\n\nShould you expect the Police to come in and\nassault you, lay siege and refuse to help when they\n(yes, let's give them the benefit of the doubt)\naccidently burn down your ranch home? Even though\ney have emergency vehicles nearby?\n\nIs this a proper response when you just keep to yourself?\nEven if you DON'T hurt anyone? And you\n're cooperative with cops when you occasionally come out?", "\n\n Ack, what a public relations nightmare just begging happen.\n\n \"Gun Lobby pays vigilanties.\"\n\n \"NRA to shell out dough to gunfighters.\"\n", "\n\nWith yet another tax being floated by the Clinton administration to\npay for new ``free'' social programs, I've really begun to suspect\nthat the Canadians, long resentful of their place in the American\nshadow, brainwashed an American draft dodger who fled to Canada some\ntime between 1966 and 1968, tutored him in the ways of Canadian\nsocialism, awarded him with smokeless marijuana cigarettes when he got\nthe correct answers, then returned him to the states (under the\ncontrol of the domineering wife assigned to his case) to attain high\npublic office and destroy the evil individualistic and free market\nforces in America, thus shaping America in the Canadian image.", "\nNo, but I have several other breakdowns of accidental shootings.\nI've never seen one that specifically provides the info that Davis insists\nthat he has, so I'd love to have a cite.\n\n\nWrong. There's one gun design where that can happen, and it is\nsupposed to be carried with the hammer over an unloaded chamber.\n(Cocking the gun turns the cylinder so that a loaded cylinder is under\nthe hammer. In other words, it can be usefully carried in a safe\nmanner.) Other handgun designs don't have that property; if their\ntrigger isn't pulled, the hammer can't hit the firing pin.\n\n\nThe breakdowns that I do have include the above category. From them I\ncan safely say that if Davis is right in ALL of his claims, a large\nnegative number of people are killed by animals, because we know that\nthe number of killings by wackos is reasonably large and that the\nnumber of accidents due to gun failures (which is a superset of the\ndescribed circumstance) is near zero.\n\n\nPlease do. Include a cite for those of us who like looking at\ncontext. Make sure that your source excludes other types of\naccidents and suicides that are misreported. (\"Gun cleaning\naccident\" is police-speak for \"the family needs the insurance\nmoney.\")\n\n-andy", "/ iftccu:talk.politics.guns / kendall@lds.loral.com (Colin Kendall 6842) / 9:23 am Apr 13, 1993 /\n\n\nFollow more than one months posting. As more than one reader has noted, \nthere IS some reporting bias here. I have seen months where these \nnumbers were reversed. I don't keep a constant tally, but it seems \nthis particular issue had more shots fired than any other I can remember.", "\n\nSo, like, what do you do during those six months to be \"active?\"\nMy town has a similar requirement, and it's rather stupid. Before\nyou can buy a handgun, you have to be an active member of a gun club.\nWell, how active can you be without a gun, chief?\n\nMost gun owners feel a check of criminal records for crimes and mental\ndisorders would be a very good thing -- IF it couldn't be abused by the\ngovernment. But every time this is proposed, there is always some\ntrapdoor by which the government can deny your purchase EVEN IF you\nare perfectly qualified to own a gun. And we oppose this.\n\n\nSince the fatal accident rate for licensed automobile drivers in the US \nis around 50 times the fatal accident rate of largely unlicensed gun\nowners, I'd think twice before using this analogy.\n\nBesides, the problem is criminal use of guns, not accidents. (There\nare about 500,000 criminal uses of guns in the US every year -- but\nonly 1,400 accidents.) I don't think it's necessary to spend a lot\nof energy making sure a criminal CAN shoot a gun before he gets one.\n\nJust like the check, most gun owners feel positively about requiring\nsafety courses -- IF they couldn't be abused by the government. But \nthey already have! One state doesn't hold the courses, another doesn't \nfund them, a third holds them only once a year with limited attendence \nto those with political connections. Is this fair?\n\n\nAnd how many of them acquire these guns from legal retail outlets?\nHow many are borrowed, stolen, smuggled, bought on the black market?\n\n\nSome states allow ONLY open carry. Some allow ONLY concealed carry.\nSome allow both. Some allow both, but require licenses for concealed \ncarry. All you can say is if one of these modes has a clear advantage\nover another in terms of reducing crime or any other public good,\nthen state legislators SOMEPLACE are doing exactly the wrong thing.\nWhich means that they really don't have any objective reasons for \nthese laws other than their preferences -- a bad way to govern.\n\n\n(\"Hot-livered.\" I LOVE that expression. Here, we say \"hot-headed.\")\n\n\nTypically, the only criminals who can affect the rights of ALL the other\npeople are criminals in government offices. The rest of our criminals\naffect the rights of only one or a few people at a time, and they do this\nduring the commission of a crime. POSSESSION of a gun by someone hurts\nNO ONE else. It is when they do something violent with that gun that\nthe crime occurs. Of course, it is a crime for a felon or ex-felon to\npossess a gun, but we don't feel it is right to treat common citizens\nwho have lived good lives as if they were just \"pre-felons\" waiting to\ncommit crimes.\n\n\nI don't understand this sentence.\n\n\nLife isn't fair. I shouldn't need a fire extinguisher either, or\nflood and theft insurance, or to lock the doors of my house and car.\nBut pining for a better world won't do anything to address what I have\nto do to live in this one.\n\n\nNone of ours, I'm sure.\n\n\nFrankly, I'm not sure I know what good a driver's license does anyone,\neither. The people who drive safely never use it, and the people who \ndrive drunk, drive without it!\n\nHowever, a car is a good tool, but not one that protects my right to life.\nI rank the right to life somewhere north of the right to travel freely.\n\n\nThe question is not whether or not you want to own guns personally. It's\nwhether or not you think that ALL people should be forced to do as you do.\nI don't have any problem with someone who says they would never own a gun.\nI do have a problem with someone who says I should be prevented from owning\none, too.\n-- ", "Path: nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!pa.dec.com!decwrl!ames!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!psuvm!cunyvm!jcehc\nOrganization: City University of New York\nDate: Wednesday, 21 Apr 1993 14:17:47 EDT\nFrom: \nMessage-ID: <93111.141747JCEHC@CUNYVM.BITNET>\nNewsgroups: talk.politics.guns\nSubject: Should Anybody be Permitted to Own a .50 BMG rifle?\nLines: 26\n\n For the moment, forget about BATF incompetence or FBI hubris. Did\nanybody catch Rep. Charles Shumer on the news last night holding up\na .50 BMG cartridge and rhetorically asking if anybody should be allowed\nto own one of these. (I presume he meant the rifle for which it is chambered\nand not the cartridge which you can get for a buck.)\n\n So what's your guess for the upcoming anti-gun agenda:\n\n1. A ban on heavy caliber rifles. (read .50 BMG)\n\n2. A ban on \"sniper rifles\"\n\n3. A ban on \"stockpiling\" guns and ammunition.\n\n\nBTW: Shumer is perhaps the most misinformed congressman I have seen on\n the news. I wonder how he finds the floor in the morning.\n-------\nMICHAEL F. GORDON\nJCEHC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU\n\n\"Vote as you shot.\" (19th Cent Republican campaign slogan )\n\n\nShumer is not mis-informed, he knows full well what he is doing.\n\nIf you look at his other votes, and positions as an agent of redistribution\nof wealth & property in this country, to him guns and personal freedom \nare incompatible with his obvious world-view. They are a threat to the\n'order' he would impose.\n\n\tR\n\n--\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\"It [collectivism vs individualism] is an ancient conflict. Men have come\nclose to the truth, but it was destroyed each time and one civilization fell\nafter another. Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The\nsavage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe.\nCivilization is the process of setting man free from men.\"\n -- Ayn Rand : 'Roark's speech from the _Fountainhead_'\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nI don't speak for my company. We hire the 'Politically Correct' to do that.", "\n\nWell, may I point out that paranoia is an IRRATIONAL fear, without basis\nin reality. As we've seen here in the US, there is nothing irrational\nabout it. Perhaps you folks in Finland have been down on your knees\nbeing good little boys and girls so that the former Soviet Union didn't\ncome across the border and stomp the snot out of you for so long that\nyou just figure everybody should be so accomodating to tyranny.\n\n\n\n\nIf you don't like us talking about political issues involving attacks\non people for owning guns, don't read talk.politics.guns.\n\n\n\nNobody's trying to save YOU from anything, so butt out. I couldn't\ncare less about what somebody on the other side of the world thinks \nabout this. Of course, you do have a right to an opinion... but I've\nalways figured that opinons are like hemmorhoids. Every asshole's\ngot them, I just don't care about yours. \n\n", "\n\n\nOne more time.\n\nIt ain't about duck hunting.\n\nIt ain't about lone perps on lonely streets.\n\nIt's about DEFENDING OUR RIGHTS from the *GOVERNMENT*, which \nhas seen fit to ignore history and attempt once again to take\nthem from us. They WILL SUCCEED if we don't do something NOW.\n\nThat's why I think the NRA is a bunch of WEENIES, because they\nhave FORGOTTEN that fundamental fact.\n\nPardon all my shouting, but there seem to be a whole helluva lot\nof people on Condition White, fat, dumb, and happy, sucking that\nglass teat for all they're worth.... Wake up and smell the cordite,\ngang, they're shooting at us, and it's high time we shot back,\nat least with our keyboards..... \n\nmy two bits'", " >> bad people, while not interfering with good people, I think we'd all be\n >> for it. The problem is, the methods we're using now don't do the trick.\n\n > Don't manufacture them. Don't sell them. Don't import them.\n >\n > Some guns will get through, but far fewer, and far less people will\n > die because of them. Hunting weapons could be allowed, of course, as\n > long as they are big, and bulky, and require reloading after a few\n > shots (how many times can you shoot at the same animal, anyways One\n > assumes they are moving!)\n\nA better solution:", " \t\nIf, if, if.... Anyway, the question was if the gun was identifiable, which\nit is.\n\n-Tim", "You know, I was reading 18 U.S.C. 922 and something just did not make \nsence and I was wondering if someone could help me out.\n\nSay U.S.C. 922 :\n\n(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful for\nany person to transfer or possess a machinegun.\n\n Well I got to looking in my law dictionary and I found that a \"person\" \nmight also be an artificial entity that is created by government \nand has no rights under the federal constitution. So, what I \ndon't understand is how a statute like 922 can be enforced on \nan individual. So someone tell me how my government can tell\nme what I can or cannot possess. Just passing a law \ndoes not make it LAW. Everyone knows that laws are constitional\nuntil it goes to court. So, has it ever gone to court, not\njust your run of the mill \"Ok I had it I am guilty, put me in jail\"\n\nHas anyone ever claimed that they had a right to possess and was told\nby the Supreme Court that they didn't have that right?\n\n\n", "\nFor me, it would be an obvious choice: Armed self-defence is clearly\nand strongly protected by the Colorado Constitution and the laws\nof the state. In the very clear-cut situation of your hypothetical,\nI wouldn't have anything to fear from the police (unless I had been\npublicly carrying the weapon concealed, something I'm not in\nthe habit of doing... Even then, the worst I'd have to deal with \nwas a class 2 misdemeanor.) Even if the situation were not so\nclear, and I might have to worry about arrest for manslaughter or\nhomicide, it would still be safer to wait for the police. If\nI were to leave and try to avoid police involvement, I'd be committing\nseveral felonies and ruining my chances of claiming self-defence\nin court (\"If it really was self-defence,\" the prosecuter would\nask, \"why did you run away and hide from the police?\")\n\nIn other states, however, this decision might not be so clear-cut:\nIf someone in, say, Washington D.C. were to use a gun in self-defence\nhe would _automatically_ be guilty of several felony violations of\nthat city's gun control laws. Such a person's choices would be\nbetween certain conviction for a couple of felonies versus possible\nconviction for half a dozen. ", "\nWell, this isn't the right group for this, but I have to say that I don't\nthink violence is any more socially acceptable now, by any means. How\ncan you say that when we used to have of pistol-toting gunslingers as \nheros, or even gangland thugs being considered romantic. Do you think\nour great grandparent got yelled at by their parents for playing cowboys\nand indians? I don't think so. That behavior was somewhat encouraged\nback then, in fact.\nI think the only difference between now and then is that nowadays, when\nsome teenager kills another one in a classroom in California, we here \nabout it in MA the same day. Back in the old days, they'd never hear \nabout something like that, period. \n\nSorry about posting to rec.autos, but this is where it came up...\n\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n ___ \n / _ \\ '85 Mustang GT Bob Pitas\n / /USH 14.13 @ 99.8 bpita@ctp.com\n / /| \\ Up at NED, Epping, NH (Cambridge, MA)\n\n \"\" - Geddy Lee (in YYZ)\nDisclaimer: These opinions are mine, obviously, since they end with my .sig!", "I have a few questions I'd like to ask;\nFirst,How would someone(me)be able to get a dealers license \nand second,besides dear old departed gramp's,where would I\nfind a good place to learn gunsmithing.\n\t\tall replies appreciated!\n\t\t\tJohn\n\n\n", "\n It's not the NRA's fault; but it is something to consider if you are\nconsidering contributing to the NRA. If candidate B is a complete asshole\nwhose only saving grace is that he opposes unnecessary restrictions on\nfirearms, I wouldn't want my membership dues funding efforts to get him\nre-elected.\n\n I have other problems with the NRA (as an organization; the individual\nmembers I've met have been loyal, trustworthy, honest, brave, etc.,\nespecially my boss who probably reads this newsgroup B->); they are\ndefinitely pro-hunting, and I recall seeing a pro-Desert Storm NRA bumper\nsticker. Sometimes they come on too strong in the political arena, which\ncontributes to their reputation as \"bad guys\" amoung many people.", "\n[unrelated text deleted]\n\n\n\nI think that Phil needs to get out a ruler and see exactly how big 50mm rounds\nare - roughly 2\" diameter. The type of stuff used in Anti-Aircraft gunnery.\n.50 calibre is much smaller, but the 3000m effective range (~2mi) sounds about\nright. Maybe he just got the two confused..... The FBI's reasoning was sound,\nbut the note from PH-B was factually wrong.\n\nTom H.\n\n\n\n-- \n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Tom Hyatt I'm a diehard Saints fan, so i've thyat@sdf.lonestar.org suffered quite enough, thank you! Arlington, TX Help! I'm being repressed! -M.Python -------------------------------\n", "I don't know what Traders is claiming, but it appears to me that\nthe Oakland Tribune has censored gun ads in the past. Likewise\nfor the San Francisco Chronicle, and I have never seen a gun\nad in the San Francisco Examiner.\n\nSpecifically, about a year ago on Thursdays, when Traders placed\nits ads, the Chron. ad would not have any graphics representing\nany handgun sale, though text could list it. The Trib. would\nrun a graphic of a handgun. The Examiner would not have a Traders\nad at all.\n\nOver the past year while Oakland politicians have made a lot of noise\nabout measures to fight crime the Trib stopped taking the Traders\nad, then started publishing it, but without any handgun graphic, then\nstopped, then started. Since the Trib. was sold some months ago it\nhas not had the Traders ad. During one of these non-ad interludes\na Traders employee told me that the Trib. had refused to take their\nads.\n\nYes, the usual Chron. Thursday ad was there today, with graphics\nrepresenting rifles, safes, etc. as usual.", "Frank Benson:\n\nAnother spelling flame?\n\nAren't you the guy who threatens people on talk.politics.guns? 2nd\namendment yea, 1st amendment nay.", "\n\nNo. The issue is reducing crime, not guns. If gun control doesn't\nlower crime overall, then is doesn't address the issue.\n\n\nDoes that matter if assaults with a baseball bat become much\nmore common? Muggers using a gun rely primarily on the\nthreat of the gun, and rarely shoot their victim. A mugger\nusing a knife is much more likely to start by stabbing his victim \nin an effort incapacitate him. So, while a knif may not\nbe as deadly as a gun, criminals are more likely to actually\n_use_ the knife (as opposed to threatening the victim with it.)\nIt isn't at all clear that replacing the criminal's gun with a\nknife would reduce murders. Stabbings might just become more\ncommon. That's why it is important to look at the overall\n(not the with-gun) homicide rate. It avoids the issue of\nsubstitution, different criminal techinques of using different\nweapons, etc... and measures what we want to prevent: Murders.\n\n\n\"Face\"? Possibly. However, facing knife-welding attackers isn't\ntoo common: Stabbing without warning and by supprise is the\nusual tactic. Very few criminals shoot from cover: It attracts\nto much attention and they don't have a chance to go through your\npockets. Overall, I'd much rather be threatened with a gun\nthan actually stabbed with a knife.\n\n\nActually, the exact same statement is true of guns: Training in\nunarmed self-defence will let you disarm an untrained gunman \nwithout much problem.\n\nYou also ignore the criminal's reaction: The National Crime\nSurvey clearly shows that criminals (unarmed, armed with a\nknife, gun or whatever) are unwilling to risk their lives\nin a confrontation. If faced with a serious threat, almost\nall prefer to leave and find an easier target. Therefore,\nusing (or threatening to use, as is much more commonly the case)\na weapon _is_ the best defence against an attacker, regardless\nof how he is armed. Knives, however, are much less effective\nthan guns: Criminals don't consider knifes as a \"serious threat\"\nnearly as often as they do guns.", "Though I agree this is not the place to discuss guns, I note in passing that\na number of gun apologists seem to have ignored the words \"well regulated\"\nin their distorted interpretations of the Second Amendment.\n\nDavid", "\n The relevance is that if you've got x homicides and reduce\nthe number of gun homicides in that group, but x doesn't decrease\nby a significant amount, have you made an improvement, and is that\nimprovement worth what you've paid?\n\n\n If a baseball bat is a tenth as likely to kill a victim as a gun,\nis that any comfort to that tenth?\n\n\n I've faced a knife. And I was damn annoyed I didn't *have*\na gun. All the statistics in the world didn't change the fact that\n*he* was interested in cutting *me*.\n\n\n \"Anyone trained in self-defense.\" \n\n Unarmed self-defense isn't for everyone. What's more, it requires\nsubstantially more training to be safe and effective than a firearm.\nIt requires physical proximity and thus a greater threat to the victim,\nwhich is a primary problem with stun guns. You have to actually touch\nyour assailant. Unless you're *very* good, a large, stronger assailant\ncan simply ignore your blows long enough to incapacitate you.\n", "\nFrom: \"Preston K. Covey\" \nSubject: Gun Stats & Mortal Risks\nDate: Mon, 15 Feb 1993 18:35:05 -0500 (EST)\n\n\nFolks,\n\nHail from the nether world. On February 4th, the Wall Street Journal\ncarried a front-page article by Erik Larson entitled \"Armed Force.\" I\nfelt a reply was in order to his citation of the notorious scare stat\nthat \"A Gun is 43 times more likely to kill than to protect.\" I sent\nthe following to the WSJ.\n\n-----\n\nGun Stats & Mortal Risks\n\nPreston K. Covey\n\n\n\tErik Larson~s even-handed article on Paxton Quigley (~Armed Force,~\n2/4/93, WSJ) cites the world~s most notorious ~statistic~ regarding guns\nin the home: ~A pioneering study of residential gunshot deaths in King\nCounty, Washington, found that a gun in the home was 43 times more\nlikely to be used to kill its owner, spouse, a friend or child than to\nkill an intruder.~ The ~43 times~ stat is everywhere these days; it\nhas grown in media lore like the proverbial urban myth: it was inflated\nby one pugilistic talk-show pundit to ~93.~ Given the shock value of\nthe finding, the conclusion of the 1986 New England Journal of Medicine\n(NEJM) study is remarkably understated: ~The advisability of keeping\nfirearms in the home for protection must be questioned.~ \n \n\tResponsible people should indeed question the risks and benefits of\nbringing a firearm into their home. But what we need to know is this: \nWhat exactly are the risks and benefits? The NEJM testimony is neither\nthe whole truth about the benefits nor nothing but the truth about the\nrisks. Further, as with motor vehicles, we want to know: What control\ndo we have over the risks and benefits? And, as with the risks of\ncancer or heart disease or auto accidents: How can we minimize the\nrisks? Like raw highway death tolls, the NEJM stat is not very helpful\nhere. \n\n\tThe NEJM finding purports to inform us, but it is framed to warn us\noff. It is widely promulgated in the media as a ~scare stat,~ a\nmisleading half-truth whose very formulation is calculated to prejudice\nand terrify. The frightful statistic screams for itself: The risks far\noutweigh the benefits, yes? What fool would run these risks? If your\ncar were 43 times more likely to kill you, a loved one, a dear friend or\nan innocent child than to get you to your destination, should you not\ntake the bus? \n\n\tUncritical citation puts the good name of statistics in the bad company\nof lies and damned lies. Surely, we can do better where lives are at\nstake. Let~s take a closer look at this risky business:\n\n\tThe ~43 times~ stat of the NEJM study is the product of dividing the\nnumber of home intruders/aggressors justifiably killed in self-defense\n(the divisor) into the number of family members or acquaintances killed\nby a gun in the home (the dividend). The divisor of this risk equation\nis 9: in the study~s five-year sample there were 2 intruders and 7 other\ncases of self-defense. The dividend is 387: in the study there were 12\naccidental deaths, 42 criminal homicides, and 333 suicides. 387 divided\nby 9 yields 43. There were a total of 743 gun-related deaths in King\nCounty between 1978 and 1983, so the study leaves 347 deaths outside of\nhomes unaccounted.\n\n\tThe NEJM~s notorious ~43 times~ statistic is seriously misleading on\nsix counts:\n\n\t1. The dividend is misleadingly characterized in the media: the ~or\nacquaintances~ of the study (who include your friendly drug dealers and\nneighborhood gang members) is equated to ~friends.~ The implication is\nthat the offending guns target and kill only beloved family members,\ndear friends, and innocent children. Deaths may all be equally tragic,\nbut the character and circumstance of both victims and killers are\nrelevant to the risk. These crucial risk factors are masked by the\ncalculated impression that the death toll is generated by witless\nWaltons shooting dear friends and friendly neighbors. This is\ncriminological hogwash.\n\n\t2. The study itself does not distinguish households or environs\npopulated by people with violent, criminal, or substance-abuse histories\n-- where the risk of death is very high -- versus households inhabited\nby more civil folk (for example, people who avoid high-risk activities\nlike drug dealing, gang banging and wife beating) -- where the risk is\nvery low indeed. In actuality, negligent adults allow fatal but\navoidable accidents; and homicides are perpetrated mostly by people with\nhistories of violence or abuse, people who are identifiably and\ncertifiably at ~high risk~ for misadventure. To ignore these obvious\nrisk factors in firearm accidents and homicides is as misleading as\nignoring the role of alcohol in vehicular deaths: by tautology, neither\ngun deaths nor vehicular deaths would occur without firearms or\nvehicles; but the person and circumstance of the gun owner or driver\ncrucially affect the risk. \n\n\t3. One misleading implication of the way the NEJM stat is framed is\nthat the mere presence of a gun in the home is much more likely to kill\nthan to protect, and this obscures -- indeed, disregards -- the role of\npersonal responsibility. The typical quotation of this study (unlike\nLarson~s) attributes fatal agency to the gun: ~A gun in the home is 43\ntimes as likely to kill . . . .~ (The Center to Prevent Handgun\nViolence, a major promulgator of the NEJM statistic, uses this\nparticular formulation.) We can dispense with the silly debate about\nwhether it~s people or guns that accomplish the killing: again, by\ntautology, gun deaths would not occur without the guns. The question\nbegged is how many deaths would occur anyway, without the guns. In any\ncase, people are the death-dealing agents, the guns are their lethal\ninstruments. The moral core of the personal risk factors in gun deaths\nare personal responsibility and choice. Due care and responsibility\nobviate gun accidents; human choice mediates homicide and suicide (by\ngun or otherwise). The choice to own a gun need not condemn a person to\nNEJM~s high-risk pool. The gun does not create this risk by itself. \nPeople have a lot to say about what risk they run with guns in their\nhomes. For example, graduates of Paxton Quigley~s personal protection\ncourse do not run the touted ~43 times~ risk any more than skilled and\nsober drivers run the same risks of causing or suffering vehicular death\nas do reckless or drunk drivers. Undiscriminating actuarials disregard\nand obscure the role of personal responsibility and choice, just as they\ndisregard and obscure the role of socio-economic, criminological and\nother risk-relevant factors in firearm-related death. This is why we\nresent insurance premiums and actuarial consigment to risk pools whose\nnorms disregard our individualities. Fortunately, nothing can consign\nus to the NEJM risk pool but our own lack of choice or responsibility in\nthe matter.\n\n\t4. Suicide accounts for 84% of the deaths by gun in the home in the\nNEJM study. As against the total deaths by gun in King County,\nincluding those outside the home, in-house suicides are 44% of the total\ndeath toll, which is closer to the roughly 50% proportion found by other\nstudies. Suicide is a social problem of a very different order from\nhomicide or accidents. The implication of the NEJM study is that these\nsuicides might not occur without readily available guns. It is true\nthat attempted suicide by gun is likely to succeed. It is not obviously\ntrue that the absence of a gun would prevent any or all of these\nsuicides. This is widely assumed or alleged, but the preponderance of\nresearch on guns and suicide actually shows otherwise, that this is\nwishful thinking in all but a few truly impulsive cases. (See: Bruce\nL. Danto et al., The Human Side of Homicide, Columbia University Press,\n1982; Charles Rich et al., ~Guns and Suicide,~ American Journal of\nPsychiatry, March 1990.) If suicides were removed from the dividend of\nthe NEJM study~s risk equation, the ~43 times~ stat would deflate to\n~six.~ The inclusion of suicides in the NEJM risk equation -- like the\ncauses, durability, or interdiction of suicidal intent itself -- is a\nprofoundly debatable matter. Quotations of the NEJM study totally\ndisregard this issue.\n\n\t5. Citations of the NEJM study also mislead regarding the estimable\nrate of justifiable and excusable homicide. Most measures, like the\nNEJM homicide rate, are based on the immediate disposition of cases. \nBut many homicides initially ruled criminal are appealed and later ruled\nself-defense. In the literature on battered women, immediate case\ndispositions are notorious for under-representing the rate of\njustifiable or excusable homicide. Time~s January 18, 1993, cover story\non women ~Fighting Back~ reported one study~s finding that 40% of women\nwho appeal have their murder convictions thrown out. Time~s July 17,\n1989, cover story on a week of gun deaths reported 51% of the domestic\ncases as shootings by abuse victims; but only 3% of the homicides were\nreported as self-defense. In a May 14, 1990, update, Time reported\nthat 12% of the homicides had eventually been ruled self-defense. In\nTime~s sample, the originally reported rate of self-defense was in error\nby a factor of four. The possibility of such error is not acknowledged\nby promulgators of the NEJM statistic. \n\n\t6. While both the dividend and the product of the NEJM risk equation\nare arguably inflated, the divisor is unconscionably misleading. The\ndivisor of this equation counts only aggressors who are killed, not\naggressors who are successfully thwarted without being killed or even\nshot at. The utility of armed self-defense is the other side of the\ncoin from the harms done with guns in homes. What kind of moral idiocy\nis it to measure this utility only in terms of killings ? Do we measure\nthe utility of our police solely in terms of felons killed -- as\nopposed to the many many more who are otherwise foiled, apprehended, or\ndeterred? Should we not celebrate (let alone count ) those cases where\nno human life is lost as successful armed defenses? The question posed\nto media that cite the NEJM scare stat is this: Why neglect the\ncompendious research on successful armed defense, notably by\ncriminologist Gary Kleck (Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America ,\nAldine de Gruyter, 1992)?\n\tKleck~s estimations of the rate and risk of defensive firearm use are\nbased on victimization surveys as well as other studies: the rate is\nhigh (about one million a year) and the risk is good (gun defenders fare\nbetter than anyone, either those who resort to other forms of resistance\nor those who do not resist). Dividing one million gun defenses a year\nby 30,000 annual gun deaths (from self-defense, homicides, suicides, and\naccidents) yields 33. Thus, we can construct a much more favorable\nstatistic than the NEJM scare stat: \n\nA gun is 33 times more likely to be used to defend against assault or\nother crime than to kill anybody. \n\n\tOf course, Kleck~s critics belittle the dividend of this calculation;\nwhat is good news for gun defenders is bad news for gun control. We\nshould indeed question the basis and method of Kleck~s high estimation\nof defensive firearm use, as I have questioned the NEJM statistic. \nClearly, the issue of how to manage mortal risks is not settled by\nuncritical citation of statistics. One thing troubles me still: we\ncan hardly escape the unquestioned NEJM scare stat in our media, but we\nhardly ever find Kleck~s good work mentioned, even critically.\n", "Oh Christ, here we go again. I'm actually going to assume that\nthis was a serious posting, fool that I am.\n\n \nAnd I suppose I should just take your word for it. Did you ever\nthink that many people who use firearms to protect themselves\nmight not admit to it because of the ridiculous laws which exist\nforbidding concealed carry?\n\n \nI already own a cool jacket. I ride a bicycle to work and park\nit behind my desk. And if my woman decides to go with someone\nelse, I'd be disappointed but killing her new suitor will probably\nnot endear her to me any more than before. Frankly, I've never\nmet a woman worth killing for anyway. (Now, an AR-15 with a chrome\nbarrel, THAT's worth killing for ...!-))\n\n \nDoes this pinhead know something the rest of us don't?\nI'm not too worried about federal martials coming to get my guns.\nThe government can't seem to keep violent criminals in jail since\nthey don't have enough prison space, and the legal system is over-\nburdened anyway. Where are they going to put all the millions of\ngun-owners who won't fork over their weapons? Maybe you'd like to\nvolunteer the services of your humble abode, since you obviously\nfeel sooooo strongly about this.\n\n \nYour argument has been rendered useless. Accept this. Find another\nnewsgroup.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------\nLee Gaucher NRA | My opinions.\ngaucher@sam.cchem.berkeley.edu | No one else's.", "Editorial - A10, Saturday, April 24, 1993\n\n CRIMESTRIKE HITS TOWN\n\n With the chilling reality of crime at the hands of urban terrorists\n that were noted above (a high school student and gang article in the\n same column), we welcome into the ranks of those dedicated to re-\n moving criminals from the streets the National Rifle Association's\n new CrimeStrike project, engineered by Arizona's former chief assist-\n ant attorney general Steven J. Twist.\n\n CrimeStrike is working to reverse the disturbing trend of daily\n crime. It is promoting solutions that can be applied nationally,\n including tough and honest sentencing of the sort that Arizona is\n applying with its Truth in Sentencing law; funding construction and\n staffing of appropriate prison space; ensuring that the system is\n primed to punish serious youthful offenders; strict attention to the\n rights of victims; and citizen and community involvement.\n\n Phoenix will be the home for this national organization.\n\n The Gazette has vigorously opposed many NRA policies on issues of gun\n control, and will be resolute in promoting prudent laws that seek\n reasonable regulation of firearms.\n\n But CrimeStrike is an appropriate creation, a response to a clear\n need for more robust vigilance in holding legislators and judges ac-\n countable when it comes to swiftly and surely punishing criminals.\n\n When an organization has an issue, it has an issue, and Crime-\n Strike has it - especially when it is willing to direct its dollars\n to getting criminals off the street.", "\tWhy? Either the numerator or the denominator could fluctuate.\n\tThe dollar value of a gun would (of course)\n\tgo up if supply were restricted. The weight of a gun might\n\tgo down significantly as technology improved. I don't\n\tthink you have a basis to assert this. ", "I don't remember the figures EXACTLY, but there were about 3500 deaths in Texas\nin 1991 that was caused by guns.....\nThis is more than those beeing killed in car-ACCIDENTS!\n(Yes, there could be that low sentences or high poverty could influence the\nfigures but they're still *pretty* high right??)\nI also believe Texas has some of the most liberal 'gun-laws' in USA......\n\n\n*I* should not suffer because of others....\nWe all agree on this one, BUT we also live in a sociaty and therefor\nwe'll have to give up *SOME* of our 'freedom' (Note the '').\n\nDo you have an insurance??\nThen you'll have to pay because of what others do...\n\nDo you buy anything??\nYOU are paying for those who return goods, steal or even those who gets a bonus...\n\nDo you live with other people??\nThen you 'can't' do ererything you'd want (burping/farting playing music LOUD)\n\n-What the hell is he trying to say ??\nWhen you live in a society (USA are stilll counted as one...) you\nhave to saccrifice.\nThe question is HOW MUCH.\n\n\nOne state (don't remember which, Texas??) tried to impose a rule that you could\nonly buy ONE gun each MONTH. Think you all know what happened.....\n\nI respect the right to defend yourself, but that right should not inflict on\nother people.\n\nIt seems like you all realize that you have a problem in America, the only\nproblem is\nthat you won't take the car away from the drunk driver, you hope to cure him\nfirst.\n\nHope life comfirms to the standard of Winnie the Poh.\n\n\n\n\tThis is not a .signature.\n\tIt's merely a computergenerated text to waste bandwith\n\tand to bring down the evil Internet.\n", "[stuff deleted]\n\nme:\nDavid:\n\nThis is a very, very good point. Who cares what kind of gun you've got if\nyou're lying on the ground dead.\n\n[more stuff deleted. mostly mine]\nAnother very good point that is well taken. It seems that when lots of lead\nis flying (either the cops or the gangs) someone innocent always gets caught\nin the crossfire.\n\nAll points made above are well taken. I guess I am in the mindset of\n\"having more makes it better\" which is obviously not the correct mindset\nto take in this discussion. Now that I think about the situation a\nlittle more carefully I see your point exactly David and I\nwholeheartedly (sp?) agree. Like I said I'm just assuming that \"more\nbullets and/or bigger bullets is better\". Once again though I want to\nstate that I am a pro-gun individual and do NOT believe that gun control\nis really a viable option here in the United States regardless of the drivel\nthat I spout here :-)", "\n\n Not provable. It's about as \"provable\" as the number of votes\nvast for Bill Clinton in the last election. If you accept the information\navailable, you can prove one way or the other. If you refuse to accept\nit, nothing is \"provable.\"\n\n\n Fine, support your assertation. But, you haven't supported\nany assertations just yet.\n\n The National Crime Survey, that secret Arm of the NRA, estimates\nbetween 40,000 and 50,000 with-gun self-defenses from assaults, and\nis considered to considerably under-report. When broken down by weapon,\nthere is no form of \"self-defense\" including dowing nothing which is\nmore effective at avoiding injury or death.\n\n\n Ok, support *this* assertation. Hell, support *one*.\n\n\n That's nice.\n\n\n That's nice, too.\n\n\n Why on Earth should we? If you're correct we've nothing to\nlose by continuing to argue against it and everything to gain.\n", "OHIO HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE THURSDAY, APRIL 8, 1993\n \nH.B. NO. 287- REPRESENTATIVES SEESE, DAVIS, BATCHELDER, AMSTUTZ, T. \nJOHNSON, VAN VYVEN, WACHTMANN, WHITE, DI DONATO, BOGGS, LOGAN\n \n TO AMEND SECTION 1531.01 OF THE REVISED CODE TO ADD MOURNING DOVE \nTO THE GAME BIRD LIST AND PERMIT THE CHIEF OF THE DIVISION OF WILDLIFE IN \nTHE DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES TO REGULATE THE HUNTING OF MOURNING \nDOVES, AND TO MAKE AN APPROPRIATION.\n \nThis would allow the hunting of mourning doves in Ohio and give the \nsportsman something they have been pushing for.", "\nYo! Watch the attributions--I didn't say that!\n\nAgain, this isn't an appropriate forum for discussions on whether you\nshould shoot someone for property damage/vandalism/theft, but every\nresponsible gun owner realizes that there are limits, and the punishment\nmust fit the crime. I mean, think about it--is a (really) harmless\nprank worth killing over?\n\nAs I said, the situation described (punks setting off alarms and\ntaunting people to come out) could turn very ugly very quickly, and\nit is worth being prepared when your life is potentially on the line.\n\n\t\t\t\tJames", "\nIf I hear someone screwing with my car (ie, setting off the alarm) and\ntaunting me to come out, you can be damn sure that my Colt Delta Elite\nwill also be coming with me. It's not the screwing with the car that'd\nget them shot, it's the potential physical danger. If they're\ntaunting like that, it's very possible that they also intend to rob\nme and/or do other physically harmful things.\n\nIf they're just screwing around, no harm done. If they're bent on\nmayhem, they will receive the cure for their lead deficiency; a\n180gr. injection @1200 fps...there's no telling what today's violent\ncriminals will do. Death may be the most pleasant outcome...\n\n\t\t\t\tJames", ": In article manes@magpie.linknet.com (Steve \n: [...]\n: > I don't know how anyone can state that gun control could have NO\n: > effect on homicide rates. There were over 250 >accidental< handgun\n: > homicides in America in 1990, most with licensed weapons. More\n: > American children accidentally shot other children last year (15)\n: > than all the handgun homicides in Great Britain. (Source: National\n: > Safety Council. Please... no dictionary arguments about RATES vs\n: > TOTAL NUMBERS, okay? They're offered for emphasis, not comparison).\n: > \n\n: You're a great debater. You chose your sources of information, claim them\n: to be superior,\n\nI've made no such claim. Please direct my attention towards any\nposting of mine where I claimed superior sources of information.\nIt's probably because I bothered to post any references at all while\nothers seem content to post numbers pulled from the ozone, that\nyou've confused it with fact-twisting. If so, I apologize. \n\n: then take those twisted numbers and twist them further by trying \n\nWell then, here's fair opportunity for you to prove that I've \"twisted\nnumbers.\" On what grounds do you contradict those references? Do you have\nany citations... any sources of your own that I can take similar\ngratuitous shots at?\n\n: to compare absolute numbers between two countries that have major population \n: differences, the USA and GB, and then whine that you are afraid someone might \n: attack your process, and so claim the numbers are for \"emphasis, not \n: comparison\"? Emphasis of what?\n\nNitpicking and scolding is a whiney debating style, Jim.\n\n: Anything else is blowing smoke.\n\nYou seddit, brudda.\n ", "\nre: is \"John Q. Public with a gun\" protected?\n\n\n\n\nMiller was convicted of owning a sawed-off shotgun and not paying the\nNFA '34 tax. Snatches of the court's decision:\n\nThe Second Amendment was intended to \"assure the continuation and render \npossible the effectiveness of such a force [the militia]... It must be \ninterpreted and applied with that end in view.\"\n\nThe militia includes \"all males physically capable of acting in concert \nfor the common defense.\"\n\nHowever, regarding sawed-off shotguns, \"certainly it is not within \njudicial notice that this weapon is any part of the ordinary military \nequipment or that its use could contribute to the common defense.\"\n\n\"Judicial notice\" is the term of art here -- it meant that no such\nevidence had been formally presented. This is different from claiming\nthat they had ruled that it wasn't.\n\n\nI'm not talking about plain shotguns in war -- I'm talking about short-\nbarrelled (\"sawed-off\") shotguns in war.\n\nCompare Revolutionary War blunderbusses; luparas in the Spanish-American \nWar; and trench-cleaners in WW I. They were also put to good use by\nUS soldiers in WW II, not to mention being invaluable to \"tunnel rats\" \nin Vietnam, but, of course, \"Miller\" took place in 1939.\n\n\nHere is my quandary: you seem to be arguing that certain types of \nguns fall outside the scope of the Second. This isn't a useful argument \nunless you believe that some significant gun or class of gun belongs\nin that class. \n\nI think we both agree that zip guns probably aren't protected. Maybe \nwe also both agree that all the weapons that random state governments \nhave been banning or trying to ban because they have \"no sporting purpose\" \nand \"no provate citizen would ever need these guns\" DO fall under the \nprotection of the Second. \n\nSo, given that damn near any gun of any practical utility is or has at \nsome time been used by the military, even if only for marksmanship \ntraining purposes, I need to understand why you are intent on pressing \nthis point, arguing that that SOMETHING is not protected by the Second.\n\n\nOften, what makes someone unpopular is what other people say about him.\nHow much did any of us fear or abhor the Branch Davidians six months ago?\nHow many of us feared or abhorred Saddam Hussein five years ago?\n-- ", "\nAnd you'd be wrong about that too.\n\nNote that Texas isn't unique in this \"more with-gun deaths than\nwith-car deaths\", but some of the other states where it happens have\nextremely strict gun laws. Oops - so much for the \"meaning\".\n\nIt isn't clear that the comparision means anything anyway as car\naccidents are unintentional while gun deaths aren't, but if we're\ngoing to make it, let's at least be honest.\n\n\nGive it up for what? Gun control doesn't have any benefits, so\nit fails by this standard.\n\n\nNote that insurance gives me something in return - gun control doesn't.\n\n\nThat's half the question - the rest is \"and what do you get for your\nsacrifice\". If the answer to the second question is \"nothing\", as it\nis for gun control, then we don't have to ask the first question\nbecause getting nothing means that no sacrifice is justified.\n\n-andy", "\nA long-time reader of t.p.g, I am also a staunch RKBA supporter, yet\nI own no firearms.\n\n\nAmen, brother.\n\n--\nNicholas Sylvain (sylvain@netcom.com) --- I am the NRA\n\n", "[Posting the text of H.R. 893 ...]\n[ ... ]\n[page break]\n\nOB ill-wind-and-all-that: with Bill the Prez in there, at least the\nanti-gunners are out of the closet. The provision that any existing\nso-called \"assault weapons\" die with their current owners was worked\ninto H.R. 3371 (102nd Congress bill number) a couple of years ago,\nin a complicated way that the anti's claimed was a \"drafting error.\"\n\nCan't call 'em \"lying bastards\" any longer. (Not all the time ... :-)", "No it's not. If you would have read my other post I was accurate. Here's what\n\n[material from another post]-------------------------> The other point that I\nwould like to make because I know it's true (looked this one up in the Illinois\n this is for you Andy-----> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nstatutes before) is that it is illegal to carry a concealed weapon in Illinois.\n^^^^^^^^ <------ Also for you Andy.\n\nAnd then I went on to say:\nThere is no such thing as a CCW for us ordinary folk here.\n[end of quoted material]\n\nOf course I forgot to mention who \"us ordinary folk\" are so just for Andy I'm\ngoing to go to the library tomorrow and photocopy the part of the Illinois\nstatutes with this information and post it. Ordinary citizens CAN NOT get a\nlicense to carry a concealed weapon. There are very few people who can. I\neven asked my lawyer friend about this and he told me that only certain people\ncan get licenses for concealed carry. He couldn't remember which people but he\nknew for sure that regular citizens couldn't get that type of license. He told\nme to go check at the library for the statutes which I did. I'll post that\ninfo tomorrow night. Until then.......", "\nI don't think such a Canada is any more \"culturally similar\" to\nthe United States than England. In terms of laws regarding individual\nrights, restrictions on police searches, etc... (all closely\nrelated to crime) Canadian laws parallel England's and differ\ngreatly from those of the United States.\n \n\nActually, they do not have \"roughly the same... urban economy\", \nand extremely different ethnic composition.\n\n\nHowever, if you account for economic and ethnic differences,\nthe difference disappears completely: Seattle's minorities are\npredominatly poor, while Vancouver's are middle or upper class.\nThe rates for whites in both cities were found to be identicle,\nwhile the rate for poor, Seattle minorities was almost three\ntimes as great as for the well-to-do minorities of Vancouver.\nThe pattern seems to be one of poverty and race relations, not\none of gun control.\n\n\nThat is a gross distortion: \"Self-defense\" does not mean killing\nthe attacker. There were 21 cases of civilians killing their \nattacker in self-defence. But such cases represent less that\n0.5% of the crimes prevented by armed self-defence; for every\ncase you cite, there were over 200 other cases of self-defence\nwhere the crime was prevented but the attacker was not killed.\n(0.5%, by the way, is the most conservative possible figure,\nbased on the National Crime Survey's estimate of 80,000\ncrimes prevented by armed self-defence each year. Most other \nstudies on the subject put the figure at 500,000 to 600,000.\nThose figures would imply less than 0.08% of sucessful self-defences\ninvolve killing the attacker.) \n\nSo, more correctly, there over 4000 (possibly as many as 25,000) \ncases of civilians acting in self-defence, only 21 of which resulted\nin the death of the attacker. This is a significant factor, in\ncomparison to the 592 homicides. If memory serves, homicides\nmake up approximately 1% of the violent crimes the study\nconsidered, so the fair comparison would be 40 - 250 homicides\nprevented and 592 homicides. Clearly, the study can not be\nclose to accurate, since it ignored these cases of self-defence.", "\n\n\tCan you say, \"I get more background radiation from living in\nDenver or having an office in a limestone building than I do standing\nnext to a power reactor at full power or standing next to a nuclear\nwarhead that is armed?\" Look up \"shielding\" in your dictionary. You\ndon't need six feet of lead to make decent shielding; your dead skin\ncell layer does an excellent job on alpha particles, and neutrons\nare slowed by mere *water*. What do you think 75% of you is?\n\n\n\tIf the militia has as its job the overthrow of an illegal\ngovernment, they are indeed useful weapons to the militia. They\nwon't be too useful in certain areas, but leveling the Pentagon\nwould be a \"good thing\" for said overthrow and it's likely one man\ncarrying a backpack would stand a better chance than one thousand\narmed with Colt Peacemakers. Don't let self-defense become the\nonly reason you can have a gun and your sole means of justification.\nMyself, I won't overthrow my government until it ceases to be my\nlegal government, but if I need to I want every weapon I can get.\n\n\tOne can just as easily say no rifle larger than a .22 is\nneeded to kill a human being. They are right. When that human\nbeing is wearing armor and riding in an APC, things get a bit\ndifferent. I don't see where the weapon is a problem. It's not.\nOnly the manner of use is in contention here.\n\n\n\tI guess you either don't have an alarm clock or have never\nheard the terms \"timer\" or \"martyr\" either. Don't forget remote\ndetonation devices. That CB radio in the pickup next to you can\neasily transmit ten miles in decent weather. That's out of the\nblast radius of many portable nuclear devices.\n\n\tJust what is it about radioactive decay that has you worried?", "\nGood - now let's look at those sections. They'll prove my point.\n\n\nNote that this doesn't affect all concealed carry. (Look after the\nword \"except\".) It always helps to read the law before commenting on\nit.\n\nWould a prudent storekeeper carry concealed? How about someone at\nhome? Note that both are legal, and a lot of \"common\" people qualify\nfor one or the other.\n\n-andy", "W.K. Gorman:\n\n<3>> Maybe now's the time for us, the NRA, GOA, CCRTKBA, SAF, et al to band\n<3>> together and buy CNN as *our* voice. Wouldn't that be sumpin....broadcast\n<3>> the truth for a change and be able to air a favorable pro-gun item or two..\n\n<3>I would like to see this happen. I don't think it will. I don't\n<3>think the average gun-owner will take any notice of what is happening\n<3>until they break down HIS door.\n\n<3>BUT I will go on record publicly to the effect that I will contribute a\n<3>minimum of $1,000.00 to the buy-out fund if it can be organized and made\n<3>viable. Anybody else want to put their money where their mouth is? :)\n<3>There ar 50+ MILLION gun owners out there. If - and it's a big and\n<3>not very realistic if - we got hold of CNN, the anti-gun bullshit would\n<3>STOP RIGHT THERE. Why won't it happen - because nobody will get off their\n<3>ass and MAKE it happen. Nuts.\n\nAny NRA headquarters weenies listening to this man. Any RTKBA organization\nhoncho listening. It's time to stop fighting the Brady's and the Schumer's\n(now there's an interesting meaning to the acronynm BS) from the comfort\nof the office....we had better get serious with our time and money and get\nafter it or we might just as well pack it in now.\n---\n . OLX 2.2 . Gun control advocates must have had a sanity by-pass!\n ", "\n\nHow about a gun buy-back/charity? Get some sponsors to fund the\npurchase of used firearms, have a gunsmith check them over, and give\nor sell them at a low price to poor persons wishing to own firearms. ;-)\n[OK, you guys can work out the details of who is \"needy\", etc...]\n\n--\nCharles Scripter * cescript@phy.mtu.edu\nDept of Physics, Michigan Tech, Houghton, MI 49931", "\nIn the hands of a defender, a .357 _is_ a miracle from God. He helps those \nwho help themselves. Or haven't you ever heard that one before?", " >This argument sounds very stupid.. if the ability to make guns from\n >\"simple metalworking\" was easy, then Drug dealers would make their own \n >wouldn't they???.. why spend hundreds of dollars buying a gun that\n >somebody else made cheap and is selling it to you at an\n >exorbitant markup???... The simple truth of the matter is, that regardless\n >of how easy it is to make guns, banning guns will reduce the \n >the number of new guns and seriuosly impede the efforts of a \n >killer intent on buying a weapon....\n >To show why the tools argument is the silliest i have ever seen.. take an\n >analogy from computer science... almost every computer science major\n >can write a \"wordprocessor\" yet we(comp sci majors) would willingly pay 3 \n >to 400 bucks for a professional software like wordperfect... why don't we \n >just all write our own software???...... Because it is highly \n >inconvinient!!!..\n >Same with guns... secondly.. how does one get this gunpowder for the \n >\"home made gun\" ??? Take a quick trip to the local 7-eleven???.\n > If guns were really that simple to make... the Bosnian muslims would\n >be very happy people (or is it the case that metalworking tools are\n >banned in bosnia??? (deep sarcasm) ).\n >\n >well this is my two cents..\n > i will now resume reading all these ridiculus post from people\n > who must make their living doing stand-up comedy.\n** END OF FORWARDED MATERIAL **\n", "A couple of questions for you firearms law experts out there: \n\nQuestion #1\n\nAccording to the NRA/ILA state firearms lawbook, in Wisconsin it is\n'unlawful for any person except a peace officer to go armed* with a \n\"concealed and dangerous weapon.\" There is no statutory provision for\nobtaining a lixense or permit to carry a concealed weapon.'\n\n* Jury instructions indicate that 'to go armed' one must have a firearm\non one's person or within his immediate control and available for use.\n\n\n\nDoes this mean that open carry is allowed? If so, just how 'open' does it\nhave to be? Would an in the pants holster be considered concealing? What\nif one had their jacket on and it partially covered the weapon? Also,\nis there any way to be allowed to carry concealed, or is it just not allowed,\nperiod? \n\nQuestion #2\n\nAs I understand it, in Evanston, IL, they have a ordinance banning handguns.\nIs there any way to get around this provision? What would the penalty if\nyou were found out be? What if you used said handgun in a defensive shooting\nin your apartment there? How would the city law apply to your impending \ntrial for the shooting?\nAlso, what is IL state law concerning short barreled weapons? Short barreled\nshotgun is what I would be interested in if a handgun were not available, \neither that or a shortened 9mm carbine (ie Colt, Marlin). \nOne more thing, what is the chance of getting a CCW permit in IL without being\nrich or famous or related to the mayor?", "\nProof by assertion! I love it! Uh, please explain why the smugglers\ndo not also rank a notch below (or above) the military in terms\nof communications, intelligence gathering (e.g., why fight officials\nwhen you can bribe them...\"I'll give you a hundred grand to let that\nsemi past...\"), and firepower. \n\nWhat's the point here? You're arguing that the black market\nWORKS (which it does, of course). \n\n\nThis is the wrong way to quantify things. The smuggler would\nbe concerned about value/cubic foot. Go to a gun show and\nprice out a crate of good quality handguns. \n\n\nWhat's \"local?\" \n\n\nWhat is a worthwhile firearm? Hell, anything that WORKS! Go\nget yourself a copy of the Army's 1969 Improvised Munitions Manual.\nSee how easy it is to make a functional firearm.\n\n\nIf paying $10 for inconspicuous parts at the local K-Mart is\n\"through the nose.\" \n\nDrew", "Could someone email me a USNail address for the NRA? I'd like to write them\na letter encouraging them to see to it VERY EMPHATICALLY that the 2nd\namendment is restored to the form that the founding fathers intended.\n\nPeople like Howard Metzenbaum seem very intent on diluting the 2nd amendment\nto the point where it is no effort for the governmentski to do what they\ndid in Waco.\n\nAfter all, from what I know of the Federalist papers, it is this kind of\ntyranny the 2nd amendment was supposed to be designed to protect against.\n\nHonestly! M-60 tanks against the civilian population! Attack helicopters!\n\nWe need the right to keep and bear anti-tank weapons. Actually, if they\nintend to mass armour against the (weakly-armed, at that) civilian population,\nwe need the right to field tactical nukes. Government tyranny! Who would\nhave ever thought it would happen here!\n\nI wonder who'se house they'll run tanks through next, because the gov.\nSUSPECTS child abuse. Maybe yours! Maybe mine!\nAnd what is an Illegal Weapon (which they have yet to show us), if the\n2nd amendment is designed to do what I believe it is, and the gov. uses\ntanks against you? Government self-serving? Naaaah. Not here.\n\nTime was when the U.S. used armour/attack helicopters against small countries.\nNow, we're down to using them against to what amounts to a busload and a\nhalf of civilians.\n\n\"First they came for the Jews, but I did not stop them, because I was\nnot a Jew: Then they came for the catholics, but I did not stop them\nbecause I was not a catholic! Then they came for the lutherans, but\nthere was now no one left to stop them!\" Rev. Martin Niemoller.\n(probably didn't get it verbatim, but you get the idea).\n\nIf the NRA reads this, then never mind about the address.\nGod save us!", "\nThe point that I forgot to bring up here (and this has nothing to do with being\na gang member or not) is that it is illegal to carry a concealed weapon in this\narea (or in the state of illinois for that matter). This is not to say that\npeople in Illinois don't carry concealed weapons illegaly but practicing like\nthat when there are other people around wasn't too bright of an idea.\n\n\nI agree. If you don't practice at all and carry a gun for self-defense you\nmost likely would be in big trouble if a situation were to arise.", "\nMurderous, huh? Yeah, there was all sorts of carnage going on there in\nthe 60 YEARS they were there -- BEFORE the government assaulted them.\nOh, I forgot -- you probably consider self-defense as murder.\n\n\nDamn right. This is not a partisan thing; it's about individual \nliberties -- the right of a citizen to be left the hell alone.\n\n\nThat's another indication that you don't understand the issue.\n\n\n\n\"Our appropriations are coming up soon. We need a good PR boost. Let's\nfind a socially unpopular group who happen to have a lot of guns, go in\nlike gangbusters, be heros, and have the local media get it all on video \ntape. Then we won't have to worry about our budget until next year.\"\n\n\nWhy don't you knit one to match his jogging outfit?\n-- ", "\nAs David Veal points out, this sort of \"promotion\" would be used\nagainst gun owners by the mass media.\n\nHowever, here is my proposal: offer gun safety classes in your area,\nfree, as a community service. Such a class would normally cost $40\nor $50, so offering it free is a good promotion.\n\nOur Gun Club has organized several of these (we just finished\nteaching another one last night, in fact) and they have been\nvery well received. We get a lot of people who are novices\ninterested in guns. We even get a few who are anti-gun, but\nfeel they should know something about \"gun safety\" since members\nof their family keep guns at home.\n\nTeaching such a course gives us many desirable benefits:\n\n(1) We have the chance to teach gun safety rules; this increases\n firearm awareness and may help to reduce gun accident stats.\n\n(2) A \"gun safety\" class is Politically Correct, and likely to\n be viewed positively by the public and the media.\n\n(3) Most of the students are 'normal people' (not gun enthusiasts)\n and this kind of class gives us the chance to give them a\n gentle introduction to firearms.\n\n(4) Some of the students are enthusiastic, and will purchase a gun\n and become more involved in shooting or personal defense.\n\n(5) It improves the public perception of our club and gun owners\n in general. Our students see that we are all reasonable,\n non-aggressive, soft-spoken people, which helps to mitigate\n the standard image of a hardcore gun owner. Even anti-gun\n students sometimes tell us they have \"something new to think\n about\" with regards to personal gun ownership.\n\n(6) Sharing our experience with others is a lot of fun.\n\nOur course is the standard NRA-certified \"Home Firearm Safety\"\nclass, and our students pay only $5 for materials. We also\nteach the NRA's \"Personal Protection\" class, although the cost\nis higher for that one since we have to purchase range time.\n\nI think firearms safety classes are an excellent response to\ngun buy-backs.", "\n If you want to talk \"less likely to get killed with a handgun\"\nyou'd have a point. \"Safer\" includes other things than simply handguns,\nand you can't conclude \"safer\" by ignoring them.\n\n Now if somebody's got the total homicide rates...\n", "\nIf you check the news today, (AP) the \"authorities also found a state-of-the-art\nautomatic machine gun that investigators did not know was in the cult's arsenal.\"\n[Carl Stern, Justice Department]\n\nI imagine the authorities know the difference between semi and fully automatic\nand probably knew weather the guns were legal as they have access to any relative\ndocumentation (i.e. permits). In addition the .50 caliber guns (plural) were\nsemi-automatic rifles.", "\nNonsense.\n\nMike, in Heinlein's \"Moon is a Harsh Mistress\" decides that a weapon is some\nmechanism which allows you to deliver energy at a distance. (I don't\nhave the book handy or I'd find the exact quote).\n\nGuns do that.\n\nCryptosystems do not.\n", "you consider those I got from you to be such.\n\nYes, You state the reference, and then YOU claim it's a good or fair treatment. \n\n\nYou fail to see the differences between absolute numbers and rates.\n\npopulation \nmight \n\nNo, you just miss the point. By your methods, I can prove gun control to be a \ntotal failure. New York's total homocide count, with it's strict gun control, \nis MUCH higher than Rhode Island's, with it's less strict gun control. FAR \nmore folks are killed in New York, than Rhode Island. Therefore, according to \nMane Logic(tm), gun control has made New York a much more dangerous place than \nRhode Island. Remember, it's \"Nitpicking\" and \"a whiney debating style\" to \npoint out the differences between New York and Rhode Island that might defeat \nmy argument.\n\n\nNow you agree? Wow, a break-through!\n\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\nIf I recall correctly, the bill would provide for concealed carry if\nthe person takes a 15-hr DPS safety course in firearms and pays a $150\nfee for the license. The bill is apparently veto-proof in the House,\nbut LtGov Bullock has said it will never come to the floor of the\nSenate and Dreamboat Annie has vowed to veto it if it comes to her\ndesk. *shrug*", "[much blathering on the Role Of Military Forces in\nEnforcing Civil Law deleted]\n\nThe main problem with trying to get the Military involved in Police work\nis the differences in the missions.\n\nThe Police take names, try and find out what happened,\nstop suspects (thats the meaning of 'arrest') and\nturn them over to the custody of the Judicial Branch\nfor the adjudication of their case.\n\nThe Military's mission is to kill the enemy before\nthey can escape or surrender.\n\nchus\npyotr\n", "Woops. I'm not sure if I screwed up, but this is either forgery or some \nsort of mistake (aborted post that didn't abort) on my part. \n\nBogus article below if seen in another post should be ignored.. \n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n/ iftccu:talk.politics.guns / bressler@iftccu.ca.boeing.com (Rick Bressler) / 3:29 pm Apr 13, 1993 /\n/ iftccu:talk.politics.guns / papresco@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) / 1:49 am Apr 12, 1993 /\n\nLet's look at this critically:\n1.How many guns did this illegal manufacturing site make compared to\n--------------------------------------------------------------------\n", "\nThat's nice, but it doesn't answer the question. There is a difference\nbetween \"the feds can mandate literacy\" and \"the feds can't interfere\nwith literacy/book possession\".\n\n\nActually, the Miller court did nothing of the kind. It remanded\nthe case back to the trial court because the miller court didn't\nknow if the weapon in question was a militia weapon. (Doesn't it\nbother anyone that a major constitutional issue was taken up in\na case where there was no defense? Miller had been released by\nthe appeals court and disappeared - only the govt was represented.)\n\nWe don't know what would have happened with the reasonable \"all guns\nare militia weapons\" argument.\n\n-andy", "\nYou would be arrested as an international arms trafficker.", "\n\nSo why did the Australian Customs Service make a public statement to\na parliamentary committee last year that weapons smuggling was a problem\nwhich it was not able to control? Possibly criminals don't have your \ngrasp of economics?", "\n\n As perhaps some insight into how this sort of thing works, the\nlocal college newspaper had a big crusade to have the U.T. police\nrelease crime stats. (The school claimed that to do so would violate\nfederal education records privacy laws). They swore up and down they\nweren't interested in student discipline records, only for stats so people\ncould make an evaluation of how safe the campus was.\n\n It was barely a week after crime stats were released before the\nDaily Beacon had an editorial calling for student disciplinary stats\nto be released, because they complained certain segments of the campus\npopulation were treated administratively rather than turned over to the\npolice and therefore the criminal states weren't accurate.\n\n What people say they want public today may not be what they\nsay tomorrow.\n", "High power assault gun? Why, you must be talking about the 155mm Howitzer.\n\nOr did you want to try a 16 incher? Or one of the German railway guns?", "\n This might be illegal without a very specific Presidential declaration\nor even a change in law. In general (sic), U.S. military troops are not\npermitted to be used for domestic policing operations.\n", "Try the firearms archive. Larry Cipriani's instructions follow. By\nthe way, thanks for the archive Larry..\n\nThis year is the 103rd congress directory.\n\n----------------------------\nFrom\nwatson!yktnews.watson.ibm.com!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!news.ans.net!howland.r\nreston.ans.net!bogus.sura.net!darwin.sura.net!dtix.dt.navy.mil!mimsy!cbvox1.\n.att.com!lvc Thu Apr 8 19:41:01 1993\nArticle: 40039 of talk.politics.guns\nPath:\nwatson!yktnews.watson.ibm.com!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!news.ans.net!howland.r\nreston.ans.net!bogus.sura.net!darwin.sura.net!dtix.dt.navy.mil!mimsy!cbvox1.\n.att.com!lvc\nFrom: lvc@cbvox1.att.com\nNewsgroups: talk.politics.guns\nSubject: Information about the anonymous ftp RKBA archive\nMessage-ID: <1993Apr8.182924.7274@cbnews.cb.att.com>\nDate: 8 Apr 93 22:50:09 GMT\nSender: magnum@mimsy.umd.edu\nOrganization: Ideology Busters, Inc.\nLines: 1795\n\nThis is the INDEX file for the anonymous ftp RKBA archive.\nThe archive site has been moved and is now at:\n\n\tgodiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu\n\t\nin the directory\n\n\t/usr0/anon/pub/firearms/politics/rkba\n\nThis archive is accessible only via anonymous ftp; instructions for\nanonymous ftp are at the end of this file.\n\nAn email server is available at another site, and as a result is\nnot completely in sync with this archive. To get the index for\nthe rkba email-server send:\n\n\tget rkba index\n\nas the body of a message to listserv@mainstream.com\n\nFor help send:\n\n\thelp\n\nIf you have any additions or suggestions for improvement to the\nRKBA archive please let me know.\n--\nLarry Cipriani, att!cbvox1!lvc or l.v.cipriani@att.com\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: rkba82\n\nReport of the Subcommittee on the Constitution of the Committee on\nthe Judiciary, United States Senate, Ninety-seventh Congress, Second\nSession, February, 1982\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/102nd/HCR11\n\nHouse Concurrent Resolution 11 by Mr. Crane, January 3, 1991\n\nExpressing the sense of the Congress with respect to the right of all\nAmericans to keep and bear arms in defense of life or liberty and in\npursuit of all other legitimate endeavors.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/102nd/HJR438\n\nHouse Joint Resolution 438 by Mr. Major Owens, March 11, 1992\n\nProposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States\nrepealing the Second Amendment to the Constitution; includes comments\nby Owens entered into the Congressional Record.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/102nd/HR1133\n\nHouse Bill 1133 by Mr. Goodling, February 27, 1991\n\nTo amend title 18, United States Code, to prohibit transfer of firearm to,\nor possession of a firearm by, a person convicted of a drug crime, and to\nprovide enhanced penalties for possession of a firearm during a drug crime.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/102nd/HR1354\n\nHouse Bill 1354 by Mr. Scheuer, March 7, 1991\n\nTo end the use of steel jaw leghold traps on animals in the United States.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/102nd/HR1412\n\nHouse Bill 1412 by Mr. Staggers, March 13, 1991\n\nTo amend title 18, United States Code, to provide for the establishment\nof a national hotline which a Federal Firearms licensee may contact to\nlearn if receipt of a handgun by a prospective transferee is prohibited,\nand to require such a licensee to contact the hotline before the transfer\nof a handgun to a nonlicensee.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/102nd/HR1559\n\nHouse Bill 1559 by Mr. Gibbons, March 21, 1991\n\nTo prohibit the importation of semiautomatic assault weapons, large\ncapacity ammunition feeding devices, and certain accessories.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/102nd/HR1770\n\nHouse Bill 1770 by Mr. Smith of Florida, April 15, 1991\n\nTo amend title 18, United States Code, to prohibit certain handguns\nwhich are unsuitable for lawful sporting purposes.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/102nd/HR19\n\nHouse Bill 19 by Mr. Hughes January 3, 1991\n\nTo prohibit the possession, transfer, and certain exports of restricted\nweapons, the manufacture of firearms capable of accepting a silencer or\nbayonet without alteration, and the possession and transfer of large\ncapacity ammunition feeding devices, and for other purposes.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/102nd/HR282\n\nHouse Bill 282 by Mrs. Collins, January 3, 1991\n\nTo provide for the mandatory registration of handguns.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/102nd/HR2922\n\nHouse Bill 2922 by Mr. Cardin, July 17, 1991\n\nTo amend the Public Health Service Act to establish an entitlement of\nStates\nand certain political subdivisions of States to receive grants for the\nabatement of health hazards associated with lead-based paint, and to amend\nthe Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to impose an excise tax and establish a\ntrust fund to satisfy the Federal obligations arising from such\nentitlement.\n\n[This bill would impose upto a $0.75/pound tax on all new lead, and\n$0.37/pound tax on recycled lead.]\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/102nd/HR318\n\nHouse Bill 318 by Mr. Dornan, January 3, 1991\n\nTo amend the Animal Welfare Act to prohibit dog racing and dog training\ninvolving the use of live animals as visual lure and to make such Act\napplicable to facilities that are used for dog racing or dog race training.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/102nd/HR3371\n\nHouse Bill 3371\n\t\t\t\n\"The Violent Crime Prevention Act of 1991\"\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/102nd/HR371\n\nHouse Bill 371 by Mr. Marlenee, January 3, 1991\n\nTo protect persons engaged in a lawful hunt within a national forest;\nestablishing an administrative civil remedy against individuals or groups\nintentionally obstructing, impeding, or interfering with the conduct of a\nlawful hunt; and for other purposes.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/101st/HR4079\n\nHouse Bill 4079 by Mr. Gingrich, February 22, 1990\n\nTo provide swift and certain punishment for criminals in order\nto deter violent crime and rid America of illegal drug use.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/102nd/HR436\n\nHouse Bill 436 by Mr. Weiss, January 3, 1991\n\nTo prohibit the manufacture, transfer, or importation of .25 caliber\nand .32 caliber ammunition.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/102nd/HR465\n\nHouse Bill 465 by Mr. Rangel, January 7, 1991\n\nTo prohibit certain exports of fully automatic or semiautomatic\nassault weapons.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/102nd/HR4897\n\nHouse Bill 4897 by Mr. Cunningham, April 9, 1992\n\nTo amend title I of the Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968\nto deny grant funds to States unless law enforcement officers are permitted\nto carry concealed firearms.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/102nd/HR5633\n\nHouse Bill 5633 by Mr. Schumer, July 21, 1992\n\nTo amend title 18, United States Code, to expand the scope of the multiple\nfirearms sales reporting requirement, and to require that persons comply\nwith State and local firearms licensing laws before receiving a Federal\nlicense to deal in firearms.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/102nd/HR5807\n\nHouse Bill 5807 by Mr. Schumer, August 10, 1992\n\nTo impose criminal penalties upon the failure of a Federal firearms\nlicensee to report to appropriate authorities the loss or theft of a\nfirearm from the inventory or collection of the licensee.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/102nd/HR7\n\nHouse Bill 7 by Mr. Feighan\n\nTo require a waiting period before the purchase of a handgun;\nalso known as \"The Brady Bill\"\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/102nd/HR750\n\nHouse Bill 750 by Mr. Russo, January 30, 1991\n\nTo amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1954 to provide that the excise tax\non handguns will be transferred to a trust fund to be used for purposes of\nproviding compensation to victims of crime, and for other purposes.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/102nd/S214\n\nSenate Bill 214 by Mr. Hatch, January 15, 1991\n\nTo provide procedures for calling Federal constitutional \nconventions under article V for the purpose of proposing \namendments to the United States Constitution.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/102nd/S2304\n\nSenate Bill 2304 by Mr. Lautenberg, March 3, 1992\n\nTo amend title 18, United States Code, to permanently prohibit the\npossession of firearms by persons who have been convicted of a violent\nfelony, and for other purposes.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/102nd/S257\n\nSenate Bill 257\n\nTo require a waiting period before the purchase of a handgun.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/102nd/S2813\n\nSenate Bill 2813 by Mr. Gore, June 4, 1992\n\nTo establish in the Government Printing Office an electronic\ngateway to provide public access to a wide range of Federal\ndatabases containing public information stored electronically.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/102nd/S2913\n\nSenate Bill 2913 by Mr. Chafee, June 30 1992\n\nTo prohibit the manufacture, importation, exportation, sale,\npurchase, transfer, receipt, possession, or transportation of\nhandguns and ammunition, with certain exceptions.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/102nd/S3282\n\nSenate Bill 3282 by Mr. Mitchell, September 28 1992\n\nTo amend title 18, United States Code, to require a waiting period\nbefore the purchase of a handgun.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/101st/S386\n\nSenate Bill 386 by Mr. Metzenbaum, February 8, 1989\n\nTo control the sale and use of assault weapons. \n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/102nd/S51\n\nSenate Bill 51 by Mr. Moynihan, January 14, 1991\n\nTo prohibit the manufacture, transfer, or importation of .25 caliber\nand .32 caliber and 9 millimeter ammunition.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/102nd/S634\n\nSenate Bill 634 by Mr. Symms, March 13, 1991\n\nTo amend chapter 44, title 18, United States Code, to provide clarification\nof limitations on controls of firearms, and to prohibit the use of Federal\nfunds to political subdivisions which implement certain gun control ordi-\nnances.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/101st/S747\n\nSenate Bill 747 by Mr. DeConcini,\n\nTo amend chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, regarding\nassault weapons.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/102nd/S789\n\nSenate Bill 789, by Mr. Moynihan, April 9, 1991\n\nTo prohibit the importation of semiautomatic assault weapons, large\ncapacity ammunition feeding devices, and certain accessories.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/102nd/S892\n\nSenate Bill 892, By Mr. Metzenbaum, April 23, 1991\n\nTo amend title 15, United States Code, to authorize the Consumer Product\nSafety Commission to regulate the risk of injury associated with firearms.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/102nd/S918\n\nSenate Bill 918, by Mr. Packwood, April 24, 1991\n\nThe amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to exempt small manufacturers,\nproducers, and importers from the firearms excise tax.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/103rd/HCR3\n\nHouse Concurrent Resolution 3, by Mr. Crane, January 5, 1993\nExpressing the sense of the Congress with respect to the right of all\nAmericans to keep and bear arms in defense of life or liberty and in the\npursuit of all other legitimate endeavors.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/103rd/HJR81\n\nHouse Joint Resolution, by Mr. Owens, January 27, 1993\nProposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States\nrepealing the Second Amendment to the Constitution.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/103rd/HR277\n\nHouse Bill 277, by Mr. Mazolli, January 5, 1993 \n\nTo amend title 18, United States Code, to require a waiting period \nbefore the purchase of a handgun. \n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/103rd/HR544\n\nHouse Bill 544, by Mr. Torricelli, January 21, 1993\n\nTo amend title 18, United States Code, to prohibit the transfer of 2 or\nmore handguns to an individual in any 30-day period.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/103rd/HR661\n\nHouse Bill 661, by Mrs. Collins, January 27, 1993\n\nTo provide for the manufacturer, importer, or dealer of a handgun or an\nassault weapon to be held strictly liable for damages that result from the\nuse of the handgun or assault weapon.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/103rd/HR737\n\nHouse Bill 737, by Mr. REYNOLDS, February 2, 1993\n\nTo provide for the manufacturer or importer of a handgun or an assault\nweapon to be held strictly liable for damages that result from the use\nof the handgun or assault weapon, and to amend the Internal Revenue\nCode of 1986 to increase the excise tax on firearms and use a portion\nof the revenues from such tax to assist hospitals in urban areas to\nprovide medical care to gunshot victims who are not covered under any\nhealth\nplan.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/103rd/HR1025\n\nHouse Bill 1025, by Mr. Schumer, February 22, 1993\n\nTo provide for a waiting period before the purchase of a hadgun,\nand for the establishment of a national instant criminal\nbackground check system to be contacted by firearms dealers\nbefore the transfer of any firearm.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/103rd/S108\n\nSenate Bill 108, by Mr. Moynihan, January 21, 1993\n\nTo prohibit the importation of semiautomatic assault weapons, large\ncapacity ammunition feeding devices, and certain accessories.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/103rd/S109\n\nSenate Bill 109, by Mr. Moynihan, January 21, 1993\n\nTo amend section 923 of title 18, United States Code, to require the\nkeeping\nof records with respect to dispositions of ammunition, and to require a\nstudy\nof the use and possible regulation of sales of ammunition.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/103rd/S178\n\nSenate Bill 178, by Mr. Moynihan, January 21, 1993\n\nTo amend chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, to prohibit the\nmanufacture, transfer, or importation of .25 caliber and .32 caliber\nand 9 millimeter ammunition.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/103rd/S179\n\nSenate Bill 179, by Mr. Moynihan, January 21, 1993\n\nTo tax 9 millimeter, .25 caliber, and .32 caliber bullets.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/103rd/S376\n\nSenate Bill 376, by Mr. Lautenberg, February 16, 1993\n\nTo prohibit the transfer of 2 or more handguns to an individual in any\n30-day period.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress/103rd/S414\n\nSenate Bill 414, by Mr. Metzenbaum, February 24, 1993 \n\nTo amend title 18, United States Code, to require a waiting period\nbefore the purchase of a handgun. \n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: gun-free-zones\n\nText of the GUN FREE SCHOOL ZONES ACT OF 1990 from PUBLIC LAW 101-647\nNOV. 29, 1990\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: aclu\n\nA collection of articles on the ACLU's position on gun control.\nIncluded is ACLU Policy Statement #47 which gives the ACLU interpretation\nof the Second Amendment.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: dcm-info\n\nA collection of articles explaining the Civilian Marksmanship Program.\nIn other words, \"Why does the United States Department of Defense sell\nbattle rifles to civilians ? \"\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: dial911\n\n\"Dial 911 and Die!\" By Aaron Zelman and Jay Simkin of Jews for the\nPreservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO)\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: fija-info\n\nThe Fully Informed Jury Amendment, and what it means to gun owners\nand the right to keep and bear arms.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: whitemanslaw\n\nWhite Man's Law by William R. Tonso, from the December 1985\nReason magazine\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: jefferson\n\nThe First Inaugural Address of Thomas Jefferson, 2nd president of the\nUnited States.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: jewishistory\n\nJewish History Rufutes Gun Control Activists, by Elliot Rothenberg\nfrom the February 1988 *American Rifleman*.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: law-abiding\n\nThe Law-Abiding Gun Owner as Domestic and Acquaintance Murderer\nfrom \"Guns, Murders, and the Constitution: A Realistic Assessment of\nGun Control,\" by Don B. Kates, February, 1990, pp.45-49.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: second-ideology\n\n\"The Second Amendment and the Ideology of Self-Protection\" by\nDon B. Kates, Jr. Reprinted from CONSTITUTIONAL COMMENTARY,\nVol. 9. No. 1. Winter 1992, (c) 1992 by Constitutional Commentary,\n\nKates puts the Second Amendment and philosophies of self-protection\ninto a historical perspective\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: new-understa\n\nToward a New Understanding of the Second Amendment, by David T. Hardy\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: to-bear-arms\n\n\"To Bear Arms for Self Defense: Our Second Amendment Heritage\" by\nStephen P. Halbrook.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: no-treason\n\nNo Treason, The Constitution of No Authority by Lysander Spooner\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: resistance\n\nExcerpts from the study \"Crime Control Through the Use of Armed Force\",\nby Associate Professor Dr. Gary Kleck, Florida State University School\nof Criminology, published in the February 1988 issue of SOCIAL PROBLEMS.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: waitper-qna\n\nWaiting Period -- Questions and Answers by Handgun Control, Inc. (HCI)\nand Citizens for Safe Government (CSG)\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: warsaw\n\n\"The Warsaw Ghetto; 10 Handguns Against Tyranny\",\nby Dr. David I Caplan from February, 1988 American Rifleman.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: wethepeople\n\nSupreme Court interpretations of the Second Amendment.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: sc-ftp\n\nHow to retreive Supreme Court decisions via anonymous ftp.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: alternative-policy\n\nALTERNATIVE POLICY FUTURES by Franklin E. Zimring\nfrom THE ANNALS OF THE AMERICAN ACADEMY OF POLITICAL AND SOCIAL SCIENCE.\nVolume 455, May 1981; published by The American Academy of Political\nand Social Science; 1981.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: embarassing.2nd.amendment\n\nThe Embarassing Second Amendment by Sanford Levinson, Yale Law Journal\nVolume 99, pp 637-659 (1989)\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: nra800\n\nPhone numbers for the NRA, many are toll-free 800 numbers\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: nradrugs\n\nA collection of articles on the NRA's position on the War on Drugs.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: fl-aw-part1\n\nFlorida A.W. Commission - Exec Summary Part 1,\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: fl-aw-part2\n\nFlorida A.W. Commission - Exec Summary Part 2,\nSTOCKTON -- THE FACTS by Martin L. Fackler, MD\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: iwba\n\nInformation about the International Wound Ballistics Association,\nMartin Fackler, president\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: gunshyjudges\n\nGun-Shy Judges by Jacob Sullum, from the May 1991 issue of Reason Magazine\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: heatofmoment\n\nIn the Heat of the Moment, By James D. Wright\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: racist-soil\n\nArticle \"Gun Control Sprouts from Racist Soil.\" by Roy Innis,\nfrom the Wall Street Journal 11/21/91\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: core-policy\n\n\"Bearing Arms for Self-Defense -- A Human and Civil Right\" by\nRoy Innis, National Chairman, Congress of Racial Equality (CORE)\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: righttobear\n\nThe Right to Bear Arms By Sanford Levinson from the\nDaily News, Ft Walton Beach, FL. (1991)\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: rock-island\n\nUnited States of America v. Rock Island Armory, US District Court for\nthe Central District of IL; the court ruled that making a post '86\nmachine gun is not illegal -- believe it or not.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: dalton\n\nUnited States of America v. John William Dalton, US Court of Appeals,\nTenth Circuit, 91-1149; the court ruled that owning or transferring\na post '86 machine gun is not punishable under the NFA -- believe it\nor not.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: waitdanger\n\nWhy Gun Waiting Periods Threaten Public Safety By David B. Kopel,\nMarch 25, 1991\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: aw-qna\n\nAssault Weapon Questions & Answers\nby Handgun Control, Inc. and Citizens for Safe Government (CSG)\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: ccw-survey\n\nA state by state survey of Carrying Concealed Weapons laws.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: us-vs-miller\n\nUnited States vs. Miller et al., Appeal from the District Court of the\nUnited States for the Western District of Arkansas.\n\nArgued March 30, 1939 -- Decided May 15, 1939\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: presser\n\nThe history of Presser v Illinois is a fascinating exercise of how\npolitically based decisions on our Constitutional rights have come back\nto haunt us.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: cia-ncbh\n\nA column by Neal Knox presenting evidence that former CIA agent\nEdwin O. Welles played a major role in founding HCI and NCBH.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: conphone\n\nA list of voice and fax phone number for representatives and senators.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: billofrights\n\nThe first 10 articles of amendment to the United States Constitution.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: constitution\n\nThe Constitution of the United States of America\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: decl-of-indp\n\nThe Declaration of Independence\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: dont-wait\n\n\"Criminals Don't Wait -- Why Should You ?\" from the NRA. Exposes the\nfraudulent arguments made for waiting periods.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: external\n\nPositive Externalities of Gun Ownership, by John Kell, from\n\"The Freeman: Ideas on Liberty, October 1991 \"\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: english-hist\n\nFirearms Legislation in Great Britain, by Jan A. Stevenson\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: simkin\n\n\"Control Criminals, Not Guns\" by Jay Edward Simkin found in the\nMarch, 25 1991 [or '92?] Wall Street Journal:\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: unabridged\n\nThe Unabridged Second Amendment, by J. Neil Schulman\n\nAn interview with Roy Copperud, retired professor of journalism at\nUSC and author of \"American Usage and Style: The Consensus\". Copperud\noffers his professional opinion on the meaning of the Second Amendment.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: uzitruth\n\nA letter from J. Harper Wilson, Director FBI Uniform Crime Reporting\nProgram to Paul H. Blackman, Research Coordinator of the NRA stating\nthat only one police officer, of Puerto Rico, was shot and killed with\na semi-automatic 9mm Model A Uzi.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: maketheirday\n\n\"How to Make Their Day\" by Don B. Kates Jr. and Patricia Terrell Harris\nin the National Review, October 21, 1991\n\nKates and Harris debunk several myths about firearms, criminals, and\nviolence.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: two-myths\n\nTwo myths of gun control from \"Point Blank: Guns and Violence in\nAmerica\" by Gary Kleck.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: aw-not-problem\n\n\"Assault Weapons Aren't the Problem\", by Gary Kleck, published in\nThe New York Times Tuesday, September 1, 1992\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: oregon-study\n\n1990 Oregon Study of Retail Firearm Sales and CHL Licensing\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: children\n\nFighting for Children's Hearts and Minds by Robert Pew, American\nRifleman - April 1992\n\nDiscusses how HCI and it's Center to Prevent Handgun Violence\nhave set out to use public schools as forums for their anti-gun\npropaganda.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: gunssputter\n\n\"Guns and Sputter\" by James D. Wright, from July 1989 issue of REASON.\nWright exposes the flaws in the New England Journal of Medicine study\ncomparing the homicide rates of Seattle and Vancouver.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: nejm-info\n\nA collection of articles and information on the New England Journal of\nMedicine Vancouver/Seattle handgun crime comparison study.\n\nSee also the file gunssputter, authored by James Wright.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: dcstudy.1\n\nThe New England Journal of Medicine. 1991 Dec 5. 325 (23).\npp 1647-1650.\nEditorials: Firearms And The Killing Threshold.\nKassirer-Jerome-P.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: dcstudy.2\n\nThe New England Journal of Medicine. 1991 Dec 5. 325 (23).\npp 1615-1620.\nSpecial Article: Effects Of Restrictive Licensing Of\nHandguns On Homicide And Suicide In The District Of Columbia.\nLoftin-Colin. McDowall-David. Wiersema-Brian. Cottey-Talbert-J.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: nejm-editorial\n\nThe New England Journal of Medicine. 1988 Nov 10. 319 (19).\npp 1283-1285.\nEditorial: Firearm Injuries: A Call For Science.\nMercy-James-A. Houk-Vernon-N.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: nejm-letters\n\nThe New England Journal of Medicine. 1989 May 4. 320 (18).\npp 1214-1217.\nCorrespondence: Handgun Regulations, Crime, Assaults, And\nHomicide: A Tale Of Two Cities.\nBlackman-Paul-H. Hagen-Tim. Morris-David-C.\nStolinsky-David-C. Tirer-Samuel. Gryder-John-W.\nKuziak-John-D. Sloan-John-H. Kellerman-Arthur-L-Kellermann.\nRivara-Fred-P. Koepsell-Thomas. Reay-Donald-T.\nLoGerfo-James-P. Rice-Charles. Ferris-James-A. Gray-Laurel-\nA. Mercy-James-A. Houk-Vernon-N.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: suicide.1\n\nThe New England Journal of Medicine. 1990 Feb 8. 322 (6).\npp 369-373.\nSpecial Article: Firearm Regulations And Rates Of Suicide:\nA Comparison of Two Metropolitan Areas.\nSloan-John-Henry. Rivara-Frederick-P. Reay-Donald-T.\nFerris-James-A-J. Kellermann-Arthur-L.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: suicide.2\n\nThe New England Journal of Medicine. 1990 Jul 12. 323 (2).\np 137.\nCorrespondence: Firearm Regulations and Rates of Suicide.\nBlackman-Paul-H. Sloan-John-Henry. Rivara-Frederick-P.\nKellermann-Arthur.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: totc\n\nThe New England Journal of Medicine. 1988 Nov 10. 319 (19).\npp 1256-1262.\nSpecial Article: Handgun Regulations, Crime, Assaults, And\nHomicide: A Tale of Two Cities.\nSloan-John-Henry. Kellermann-Arthur-L. Reay-Donald-T.\nFerris-James-A. Koepsell-Thomas. Rivara-Frederick-P.\nRice-Charles. Gray-Laurel. LoGerfo-James.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: nra.cdc\n\nAn open letter from Paul H. Blackman, of NRA to the Director, Office\nof Scientific Integrity Review, U.S. Public Health Service, detailing\nwhy they should evaluate the integrity and competency of firearms research\nconducted by and for the Centers for Disease Control (CDC).\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: RKBA.000\n\nWhat the RKBA.nnn files are all about.\n\nThe RKBA.nnn series are set of small (60-100 lines typically) postings\nthat address common questions and myths about all aspects of firearms.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: RKBA.001\n\nAccidental deaths by firearms and by other means.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFILE: RKBA.002\n\nDeclining trend of accidental deaths by firearms\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: RKBA.003\n\nHomicide per capita in the US\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: RKBA.004\n\nChildren and firearms\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: RKBA.008\n\nAnnual firearm manufacture in the United States\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: RKBA.010\n\nDeclaration of Independence\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: RKBA.013\n\nTrend in weapons use for robberies (1974-86)\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: RKBA.014\n\nReasons for homicide and non-negligent manslaughter\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: RKBA.015\n\nAre firearms a leading cause of death of children?\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: RKBA.016\n\nIs the United States the most violent nation?\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: RKBA.999\n\nComplete list of all sources used for the RKBA.nnn series.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: cox-study\n\nAnalysis of the Cox Atlanta Journal Constitution, 21 May 1989 article\non Assault Weapons, by James J. Baker of NRA-ILA, before the Select\nCommittee on Narcotics Abuse and Control, U.S. House of Representatives.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: feder11.txt\n\nThe Federalist Papers, as transcribed by Project Gutenberg 1.1\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: great-quotes\n\nThomas Jefferson quotes and more ...\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: civilian\n\nCivilian Possession of Military Firearms, by Richard A. I. Munday,\nfrom the January/February 1988 issue of the UK Handgunner.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: good-go-bad\n\n\"When Good, Law-Abiding Citizens Go Bad\", from UK Handgunner No. 46\nJan-Feb 1989. Discusses how the rate of compliance of gun control\nlaws is always very low, even among otherwise law abiding citizens.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: tory-national-socialism\n\n\n\"Tory National Socialism\", by Richard A.I. Munday, UK Handgunner,\nJul-Aug 86. Discusses the gun control leanings of socialists of\nthe right.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: the-big-lie\n\n\" Gun Grabbers vs. Assault Rifles: The Big Lie\" by Neal Knox,\n\nSemi-auto military-styled \"assault\" rifles are not now nor have they\never been a threat to society. These facts have been determined by\nthe government - but never released to the public!\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: ff-47\n\n\"The Founding Fathers and the AK-47\", by Sue Wimmershoff-Caplan\nDiscuss the question if the Founding Fathers would have approved of\nthe AK-47 for civilian ownership.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: hcikkk\n\n\"Handgun Control, Inc., & the KKK\" by David Kopel, from the Oct 91\nissue of Gun World magazine. Discusses the parallels in the hate\ncampaigns of the Ku Klux Klan and Handgun Control, Inc.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: rkba-orgs\n\nA list of organizations devoted to the preservation of the Second\nAmendment.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: victoria\n\n\"The Gun Law Handbook\" for the state of Victoria, Australia (Oct 1988).\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: nra-purposes\n\nA summary of the NRA's purposes and objectives, and positions on some\ngun control issues.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: ktw\n\nA collection of articles relating to teflon coated, armor piercing\nbullets.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: thompsoncenter\n\nThe Supreme Court decision in the case:\n\nUnited States of America v. Thompson/Center Arms Co.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: DMN_Gratia_CCP\n\n\"Concealed weapons can prevent tragedies like Killeen's\" by\nDr. Suzanna Gratia in the Dallas Morning News, Sunday April\n29th, 1992\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: Knox_AW_lies\n\nNeal Knox on how military style semi-auto's are not a threat\nto public safety, how they are not fundamentally different\nthan ordinary hunting weapons, and how the gun grabbers are\nexploiting the bad image this class of weapons has to enact\nfurther gun control.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: WSJ_Crimestrik\n\n\"The NRA Mounts a Militant Campaign Taking Aim at Criminal-Justice\nSystem\" by Alix M. Freedman staff reporter of The Wall Street Journal.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: med-media\n\n\"Gun Prohibition in the Medical Literature - Telling the Truth?\" by\nEdgar A. Suter, MD ; discusses anti-gun bias in medical journals.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: toy-guns\n\n\"Court Psychologist Says Toy Guns Are Good For Children\" from Gun Week,\n1989. \n\nGlen David Skoler, court psychologist for the Arlington County, VA,\nclaims \"toys of violence\" -- including toy guns are, in fact, good\nfor children.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: awca89-appeal\n\nText of the 9th Circuit court of Appeals in the Fresno Rifle and Pistol\nClub challenge to California's Roberti-Roos Assault Weapon Control Act\nof 1989.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: lp92-rkba\n\nThe right to keep and bear arms plank of the 1992 National Platform of\nthe Libertarian Party.\n\nAnd a reproduction of the Libertarian Party brochure\n\"Responsible Gun Ownership: Equal Rights for America's Gun Owners\"\n\nThe entire 1992 National Platform of the LP is available via anonymous\nftp on think.com in the file /pub/libernet/LP/libertarian-platform-1992\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: let-july91\n\nAn article from the July/August 1991 issue of Law Enforcement Technology\nwith a survey of police officers on their views of gun control.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: nacp-poll\n\nA study conducted by the National Association of the Chiefs of\nPolice (NACP) through its American Law Enforcement Survey for 1989,\nin which 16,259 chiefs of police, sheriffs and law-enforcement command\npersonnel were polled with a list of 30 questions, it was determined\nthe overwhelming majority of officers support the right of private\narms ownership, and agreed that gun bans had little effect on crime.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: hci-advert\n\nA example of the propaganda used by HCI in soliciting contributions.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: hci-transcript\n\nA transcription of the HCI video tape \"America Needs a National\nHandgun Control Policy\"\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: gartner\n\nMichael Gartner, president of NBC News, calls for a ban on handguns\nin this USA TODAY Thursday January 16th 1992 editorial.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: nra-lp\n\nA resolution passed by the voting membership of the NRA at its national\nconvention in Anaheim, CA stating the NRA will support third party\ncandidates.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: cooley\n\nThomas M. Cooley, LL.D., General Principles of Constitutional Law in\nthe United States of America, 298-299 (3rd ed. 1898), a leading \nconstitutional commentator discussed the rights protected by the Second\nAmendment:\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: kilpatrick\n\n\"Gun Law Might Curb Rising Murder Rate\" by James Kilpatrick, St. Louis\nPost-Dispatch Tuesday June 23, 1992. Kilpatrick expresses support for\na national firearms law as proposed by C. Everett Koop, that is, a\nrequirement that gun owners pass a competency test, among other things.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: vanity-fair\n\nA summary of the 10 page article on Jim and Sarah Brady which appeared\nin the January '91 issue of Vanity Fair Magazine.\n\nQuestion: \"Was it true you wanted to get a gun to protect\n\tyourself against Hinckley?\"\n\nAnswer Jim brady: \"I had a gun\"\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: goldwin\n\n\"Gun Control Is Constitutional,\" by Robert A. Goldwin from the\nWall Street Journal edtorial page, Thrusday, December 12, 1991\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: anniston\n\nTwo articles on a murder averted in Anniston, Alabama by a man\nwith a CCW permit. The importance of this event is that it closely\nfollowed the murders by Hennard in Texas, but the media did not\ncover Anniston.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: staggers-brady\n\nA survey of public support for the Staggers Instant Background\nCheck and the Brady Waiting Period. The basic finding is that\nonce the public understands the advantages of the instant background\ncheck vs. the problems with the Brady waiting period support for\nthe Brady waiting period diminishes greatly.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: brady-vote\n\nHow Congress voted on the Staggers Instant Background Check and\nthe Brady Waiting period.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: vs-vote\n\nHow Congress voted on the Volkmer-Sensenbrenner Amendment to\nstrike the new gun control sections from the administration\ncrime bill.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: dc-vote\n\nHow the U.S. Senate voted on S. 2113, the repeal of the District\nof Columbia's anti-gun strict liability law.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: covey\n\n\"Gun Control: Trying the Facts, Weighing the Values\" A monograph based\non \"Crime, Inequality, Guns, & Equity\" by Preston K. Covey, Ph.D.,\nDirector Center for the Advancement of Applied Ethics, Carnegie Mellon\nUniversity.\n\nAddresses the desirability of gun bans: ethical aspects, equity issues,\nand other values at stake in the management of mortal risks, deadly\nforce and its instruments. \n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: assays-of-bias\n\n\"Assays of Bias on the Second Amendment: The Media Elite\" by\nPreston K. Covey, Director Center for the Advancement of Applied\nEthics [excerpts from a longer monograph]\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: cleveland\n\nA critique of:\n\nACCIDENTAL FIREARM FATALITIES IN A METROPOLITAN COUNTY (1958-1973)\nRushforth, Hirsch, Ford, and Adelson\nAmerican Journal of Epidemiology #100, 1974, pp. 499-505.\n\n\nThis is THE study that lies at the heart of the gun control\nclaim that owning a firearm for self-defense is too dangerous.\nThe claims that a defensive gun is X (=6 in this study)\ntimes more likely to be used against an innocent person than\nin lawful self-defense originated with this report in 1974.\n\nby Robert I. Kesten\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: tiananmen-lessons\n\n\"LESSONS FROM TIANANMEN SQUARE\" by Neal Knox reprinted from\nGuns & Ammo, September 1989\n\nWhy the Second Amendment is so important, even in todays more\n\"progressive\" era. Included is a description of the 1932\nBonus March in Washington, DC in which Gen. Douglas MacArthur\nopposed unemployed WWI veterans lobbying for the government to\nimmediately pay their promised Veteran's Bonus.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: forward-trace\n\n\"California FFL Dealer Defies \"Forward Trace\"\" by Neal Talbot in\nThe New Gun Week, March 1, 1991.\n\nDetails how the BATF bullies FFL holders into giving BATF copies\nof 4473's in violation of federal law.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: justice-stats\n\n\"Handgun Crime Victims\", by Michael R. Rand, Bureau of Justice Statistics\nStatistician, U.S. Department of Justice.\n\nThis Bureau of Justice Statistics Special Report describes the key findings\nfrom an analysis of handgun crimes reported in the National Crime Survey\nfor 1979-87. It describes the victims of hand-gun [sic] crime, how the\nhandgun was used during the crime, and the nature and extent of handgun\ncrime injury. It also provides information on handgun offenders, the\nlocation of handgun crimes, and whether the crime was reported to the\npolice.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: chafee\n\nIncluded are:\n\n1) Transcript of press conference with Senator John Chafee, and former\nSupreme Court justice Warren Burger on S. 2913, Chafee's, handgun ban.\nAlso speaking was Vernon Jordan, former member of the Jimmy Carter\nWhite House; Mayor Sharon Pratt Kelly; Michael Beard of National\nCoalition to Stop Gun Violence; Michael Casserly (executive director,\nCouncil of the Great City Schools); Dr. Carden Johnston representing\nthe American Academy of Pediatrics;\n\n2) An article by Neal Knox in which he describes how Sarah Brady kicked\nout HCI president Charles Orasin because of a disagreement on Chafee's\nhandgun ban.\n\n3) An article on Burger's support for S. 2913.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: alarmist-view\n\n\"Gun Registration: An 'Alarmist' View\" by Jon vanWormer; reprinted\nfrom the December 1985 Guns & Ammo. How an rkba moderate became a\nradical.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: fackler-papers\n\nA list of articles by \"Col. Martin L. Fackler, M.D., F.A.C.S.\"\nWound Ballistics Lab, and where to write for copies of them.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: gun-war\n\n\"THE GREAT AMERICAN GUN WAR\" by Barry Bruce-Briggs,\n_The_Public_Interest_ No. 45, Fall 1976, pp 37-62\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: george-will\n\n\"Repeal Second Amendment and Save Lives\", by George Will\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: reeves\n\n\"Drastic Steps to End the War at Home\" by Richard Reeves, no date\nnor publication available; placed in rkba archive 9/2/92\n\n\"Studies _Prove_ Gun Control Works\" by Richard Reeves, from the\nKansas City Star, 9/28/92.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: canada-ban-list\n\nA reproduction of a brochure from the Canadian Department of Justice\nlisting newly prohibited and restricted firearms (as of June 1992).\n\nAlso included is the \"point system\" used to determine if a firearm\nshould be reviewed for possible banning.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: copkiller\n\nLyrics to the rock song \"Cop Killer\" by Ice-T on the album Body Count.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: cva.1\n\nA letter from the California Voters Alliance, asking for support in\ntheir effort to defeat anti-gun California Assemblyman Terry Friedman,\nco-author of California's waiting period law for rifles and shotguns. \n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: astrology\n\n\"CRIMINOLOGY'S ASTROLOGY: The CDC Approach to Public Health Research\non Firearms and Violence\" by PAUL H. BLACKMAN, Ph.D., Institute for\nLegislative Action, National Rifle Association, 1990\n\nA paper presented at the annual meetings of the American Society of\nCriminology, Baltimore, Maryland, November 7-10\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: aw-panic\n\nThe Assault Weapon Panic: \"Political Correctness\" Takes Aim,\nat the Constitution, by Eric Morgan and David Kopel\n\nPublished by The Independence Institute, October 10, 1991\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: state-rkba\n\nA collection of RKBA provisions from State constitutions.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: too-late\n\nChapter 13 \"But then it was too Late\" of \"THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE\nFREE: The Germans, 1933 - 1945\", by: Milton Mayer, University of\nChicago Press\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: militia-code\n\nThe legal definition of the militia of the United States of America\ntaken from:\n\nUnited Stated Code (USC), TITLE 10, Section 311 and Section 312.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: legal-mg-crime\n\nReport No. 32 of the Firearms Coalition of Silver Spring, MD. 11/29/89\nby Neal Knox. Knox reports that a legally registered machine gun was\nused in a drug hit. Subsequent reports said charges were dropped for\nlack of evidence.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: hci-cash\n\nHCI donation records to US Senators and Congressmen.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: paulreverenet\n\nInformation about the \"Paul Revere Net\", a network of 2nd Amendment\nBulletin Boards\n\nThe Paul Revere Network (PRN) is a coast-to-coast network of\ncommitted grass-roots gun rights activists who rely upon computer\nbulletin board systems for their primary mode of communication.\nLeroy Pyle (NRA Director and 27-year San Jose police veteran)\nis Founder and Director of the PRN. Based in San Jose, CA,\nPyle's BBS (1:143/223) currently hubs all network message\ntraffic.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: gun-talk\n\nInformation about the NRA-ILA Bulletin Board \"Gun Talk\"\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congressgrades\n\nA grading of congressmen based their votes on 1) the Brady Bill\n(HR7), 2) Staggers (HR1412) and 3) the Volkmer-Sensenbrenner amendment\nto strike the anti-gun provisions from the house crime bill (HR3371).\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: lawmaster\n\n\"FEDS TRASH LAW-ABIDING GUN OWNER'S HOME\", NRA official journal March\n1992, by Richard E. Gardiner. Details how the BATF raided the home of\nJohnny Lawmaster in search of a non-existent unregistered M-16 auto-sear.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: point-blank\n\nThe concluding chapter to \"Point Blank\" by Gary Kleck.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: purdy-rapsheet\n\nPatrick Purdy's criminal record.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: progundocs\n\nStatement of purpose and contact information for \"Doctors for Integrity\nin Research & Public Policy\"\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: orlando\n\nA summary of the effects of the highly publicized Orlando training\nprogram in which over 6000 women were trained in basic pistol\nmarksmanship and the law of self-defense.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: form4signoff\n\nA letter from Wayne Miller, Chief National Firearms Act Branch of\nBATF stating that local law enforcement signoff on the ATF Form 4,\napplication for Taxpaid Transfer and Registration of Firearm [i.e.,\nmachine gun], is completely discretionary.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: badlands.txt\n\nNew Zealand Firearms Control by Robert Badlands.\n\nA paper presented at a conference on Gun Control held at Melbourne\nUniversity-Union Theatre 27-28 August 1988. The conference was\nsponsored by the Sporting Shooters' Association of Australia.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: danto.txt\n\nIssues Regarding Gun Control in America by Bruce L. Danto\n\nA paper was presented at a conference on Gun Control held at Melbourne\nUniversity-Union Theatre 27-28 August 1988. The conference was\nsponsored by the Sporting Shooters' Association of Australia.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: fine.txt\n\nImpediments to the Purposeful Reform of (Australian) Firearms Laws by J. D.\nFine\n\nA paper presented at a conference on Gun Control held at Melbourne\nUniversity-Union Theatre 27-28 August 1988. The conference was\nsponsored by the Sporting Shooters' Association of Australia.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: greenwd.txt\n\nUntitled paper by Colin Greenwood\n\nA paper presented at a conference on Gun Control held at Melbourne\nUniversity-Union Theatre 27-28 August 1988. The conference was\nsponsored by the Sporting Shooters' Association of Australia.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: kates.txt\n\nGun Control: Recent Research on the American Experience by Don B. Kates,\nJr.\n\nA paper presented at a conference on Gun Control held at Melbourne\nUniversity-Union Theatre 27-28 August 1988. The conference was\nsponsored by the Sporting Shooters' Association of Australia.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: marsden.txt\n\nGun Control: A Banker's Perspective, by ??? Marsden\n\nA paper presented at a conference on Gun Control held at Melbourne\nUniversity-Union Theatre 27-28 August 1988. The conference was\nsponsored by the Sporting Shooters' Association of Australia.\n\nNote, this paper is almost impossible to read currently as the original\nwould not scan well. A more readable copy will be supplied later.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: backdoor\n\nBack Door Gun Control by Peter Alan Kasler from the January 1993\nissue of American Survival Guide magazine.\n\nKasler discusses four examples of innocent people whose firearms\nare confiscated, and/or charged with a crime when none was committed,\nas examples of how gun control is implemented in the real world.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: armed-citizen\n\n\"The Armed Citizen\" feature from \"The American Rifleman\" and \"The\nAmerican Hunter\"; these stories show how firearms are indeed useful\nfor self-defense.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: botsford\n\nThe Case Against Gun Control by David Botsford\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: academia-bias\n\n\"Fighting Anti-Gun Bias in Academia -- an article downloaded from the\nNRA-ILA BBS \"Gun Talk\"\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: story-of-gun\n\n\"The Story of a Gun\" by Erik Larson, from \"The Atlantic\", January 1993.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: hcr**\n\nReports to the Firearms Coalition, by Neal Knox.\n\nAll these files are named hcr then two numbers, e.g., hcr51 for\n\"Report No. 51 to the Firearms Coalition\"\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: whose.txt\n\n\"Whose Side Are They On ?\"\n\n\"Freedom From War: The United States Program For General and Complete\nDisarmament in a Peaceful World.\" an official publication of the United\nStates of America government.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: nccfa\n\nContact information for the \"National Collegiate Coalition for Firearms\nAwareness\"\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: canada\n\nSome facts about Canadian gun control laws, gun ownership and violent\ncrime.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: time-letter\n\nTime magazine's form letter response to criticism of their\n\"Death By Gun\" issue.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: gun-in-school\n\n\"Health Objectives for the Nation: Weapon-Carrying Among High School\nStudents -- United States, 1990\" edited by David Dodell, D.M.D.\n\nProposes ways to reduce carrying of firearms by high school students.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: congress-cover\n\n\"Congress Covers Itself But Not Public\" by Paul Craig Roberts, printed\nin the Cleveland Plain Dealer October 2nd, 1992.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: hamper\n\n\"Restrictions hamper law abiding folks, not criminals.\" by\nDavid B. Kopel, printed in the Columbus OH Dispatch, January 16th.\n\nPoints out how waiting periods can cause a great deal of harm.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: schumer-gripe\n\nA \"Washington Post\" letter to the editor by Congessman Charles E. Schumer\ndiscussing his bill, H.R. 5633, which requires law enforcement sign-off\non FFL applications.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: sof\n\nA UPI article on a lawsuit against \"Soldier of Fortune\" which forced\nthem out of business.\n\nThis article is copyright by UPI, and archived with permission; please\nrespect the re-distribution prohibition.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: fl-stats\n\nA summary of CCW permit statistics for the state of Florida, e.g.,\nthe number of permits issued, number revoked, number denied, etc.\nThis proves that people obtaining CCW permits are law abiding\ncitizens and are not wreckless with their firearms.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: knox-on-ruger\n\n\"Knox Replies To Comment From Ruger Counsel's\" from\nThe New Gun Week, December 1, 1989.\n\nNeal Knox discusses how Sturm, Ruger Inc. are willing to sacrifice the\nRKBA for the benefit of their business.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: american-blacks\n\n\"Gun Control and American Blacks\" by Raymond G. Kessler (pp. 476-478)\n\nIn the United States, the experience of blacks from slavery \nthrough the 1960's was one of the clearest and best-documented \nexamples of the political functions of gun control.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: nraction*\n\nThe NRA-ILAs little known newsletter \"NRAction\"; names will have the\nmonth and year at the end, e.g., nraction0291.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: americamilitia\n\n\"America's Militia\" by David B. Kopel, appeared in \"Gun World\" magazine\nDecember 1992.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: hci93agenda\n\nThe \"Action Agenda for a National Gun Policy\" by HCI.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: hci-newsletter\n\nThe Handgun Control Semi-Annual Progress Report for December 1992.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: hattoripetition\n\nA petition written by the host family of Japanese exchange student\nYoshihiro Hattori, who was killed when he went to the wrong home for\na Halloween party:\n\n\"To protest the easy availability of firearms in the United States\"\n\nwhich will be presented to President Clinton.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: hci-election\n\n\"What the Election Means for Our Gun Control Movement\" by Sarah Brady.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: centerwall\n\nUniversity of Washington Pyschiatrist Dr. Brandon Centerwall writing\nin the April 1989 American Journal of Epidemiology says that television \nexposure is related to half of the homicides in the United States.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: va-outrage\n\n\"An Outrage in Virginia\" by Neal Knox. Describes how BATF used a\nVirginia gun dealer to general strawman sales and then later \"traced\"\nthose guns back to VA so they could claim 40% of guns they traced\ncame from VA. When the dealer stopped cooperating they were convicted\nof conducting strawman sales, one of the owners committed suicide.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: factcard93\n\nThe 1993 Firearms Fact Card published by the NRA-ILA\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: nejm43\n\nA letter to the editor of the Wall Street Journal by Preston Covey\non the factoid \"You are 43 times more likely to kill someone you know\nwith a gun than a criminal.\"\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: gifford\n\nAn op-ed piece by Dan Gifford which appeared in the March 8 1993 issue\nof the Cleveland Plain Dealer; it discusses the issue of police abuses\nand citizen self defense against such abuses.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: reynolds\n\nAn editorial \"Gun Makers Must Pay the Price\" by Mel Reynolds (D-IL),\nmember US House of Representatives, which appeared in the 02/15/93\nissue of the Chicago Tribune.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: pozner\n\n\"Gun Control\" with Vladamir Pozner (yes, the commie) and Phil Donahue\nfrom a Feb. 25 1993 broadcast on CNBC.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: trustpeople\n\nCATO Institute Policy Analysis No. 109, July 11, 1988\n\"TRUST THE PEOPLE: THE CASE AGAINST GUN CONTROL,\" by David B. Kopel\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: bitterprice\n\nThe British Shooter Pays A Bitter Price, by Keith G. N. Nicholson\nfrom the American Rifleman, March 1993.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: batman\n\n\"Cartoon Campaign for Gun Control\" from the March 8th 1993 issue\nof \"New American\"\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: batfss\n\n\"Waco Shootout Evokes Memory of Warsaw '43\" from the Wall Street\nJournal, Monday, March 15, 1993\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: academics\n\nContact information for \"Academics for the Second Amendment\"\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: propaganda\n\nAnti-Gun-Ownership Propaganda, by Doan Boal in the March, '92 issue\nof Survival Guide.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: media-fairness\n\nMedia Fairness Action Plan Is Continuing, by James H. Warner, NRA Ass't\nGeneral Counsel, from American Rifleman, March 1993, page 54.\n\nThis describes the FCC's \"personal attack\" rule and how the NRA may\ntake advantage of this rule against broadcasters who attack the NRA.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: artconf\n\nARTICLES OF CONFEDERATION, Proposed by Congress November 15, 1777,\nRatified and effective March 1, 1781\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: pending-bills\n\nA list of the currently pending gun control bills in the US Seante and\nHouse of Representatives.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: noduty\n\nSelf-Reliance For Self-Defense -- Police Protection Isn't Enough!\nby Peter Kasler\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: leftout\n\nThe Second Amendment: A Right Left Out, by Doctor Linda Karen Miller\nappearing in The American Rifleman, February 1993, p. 33.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: copsnguns\n\nWHAT COPS SHOULD KNOW ABOUT THE GUN ISSUE! by Leroy Pyle,\nfrom the May 1992 issue of Guns&Ammo.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: crossfire\n\nA transcript of the Wednesday, March 3 1993 edition of the CNN\nshow CROSSFIRE. The participants are Michael Kinsley, John Sununu,\nRep. Charles Schumer (D-NY) Criminal Justice Subcmte.,\nand J.F. = Rep. Jack Fields (R-TX) \n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: naziconnection\n\nThe WAR ON GUN OWNERSHIP STILL GOES ON! -- GUN CONTROL'S NAZI CONNECTION!\nby Craig Peterson from the May 1993 issue of Guns & Ammo.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: armedcriminal\n\nThe Armed Criminal in America, by James Wright, 1986. A Research in\nBrief published by the National Institute of Justice.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: bigotry\n\n\"BIGOTRY, SYMBOLISM AND IDEOLOGY IN THE BATTLE OVER GUN CONTROL\" by\nDon Kates, from the 1992 \"Public Interest Law Review\"\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: flmurd.ps\nFile: gamurd.ps\nFile: idmurd.ps\nFile: mtmurd.ps\nFile: nodiscr.ps\nFile: ormurd.ps\nFile: pamurd.ps\nFile: philmurd.ps\nFile: utmurd.ps\nFile: vamurd.ps\nFile: wamurd.ps\nFile: wvmurd.ps\n\nCCW laws and murder rates in several states, by Clayton Cramer. These\nare all PostScript files and require the use of PostScript printer to\nprint.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: hammer\n\nMarion Hammer on the Failure of Gun Control, downloaded from Gun Talk.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: threechiefs\n\nThe views of Police Chiefs Daryl Gates (LA), Lee Brown (NYC), LeRoy Martin\n(Chicago) on gun control and other civil rights.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nRKBA archive: general information and anonymous ftp instructions.\n\nThe moderator of the firearms-politics mailing list, Karl Kleinpaste,\nhas agreed to set up an anonymous ftp archive directory for RKBA\nrelated information. This directory can be used for things like\narticles by Kates, Wright, Tonso, Levinson, Supreme Court Decisions,\nthe RIA vs US decision, copies of legislation, and so on. It's not\nmeant to be for the discussions that normally appear here.\n\nSo, in the future if you're looking for something check there first\nand then ask here.\n\nInstructions:\n\nShort version for techies:\n\nThe site is godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu. Place contributions into the\ndirectory /usr0/anon/pub/firearms/politics/rkba. The ftp commands\nget, put, mget, or mput should work. Give the command \"type binary\"\nto be sure files are transferred correctly. Your files will be moved\nto the rkba directory. To get a file use the commands get or mget.\n\nI will maintain an index which you should get first to check if\nthe file you want to read or write already is archived.\n\nLong version for non-techies:\n\nIn order for you to use this archive your computer must be on\nthe Internet. To connect to the archive site run the command:\n\n\tftp godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu\n\nIf that doesn't work you cannot use this archive. If the ftp\ncommand is successful you'll get this prompt asking you for a\nlogin:\n\tName (godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu:lvc):\n\nInstead of lvc your initials will appear. Answer this prompt with:\n\n\tftp\n\nNext you'll get this prompt asking your for your e-mail address:\n\n\tGuest login ok, send e-mail address as password:\n\nI would enter:\n\n\tl.v.cipriani@att.com\n\nYou'll enter your own e-mail address. You'll get these lines\nor similar as output:\n\n\tRemote system is UNIX.\n\tUsing binary mode to transfer files.\n\nNext, the command prompt is printed:\n\n\tftp> \n\nIf you do not get the line \"Using binary mode to transfer files.\"\nRun the command:\n\n\ttype binary\n\nNow you're logged in to the archive machine. There are many\ndirectories on this machine but the two you are concerned with are\n\n\t/usr0/anon/pub/firearms/politics/rkba\nand\n\t/usr0/anon/pub/firearms/politics/incoming\n\nThere are subdirectories to the rkba directory, those are discussed below.\n\nWhen you login to the system your directory is /usr0/anon. To retreive\nfiles change your current directory to the rkba directory with the command:\n\n\tcd /usr0/anon/pub/firearms/politics/rkba\nor\n\tcd pub/firearms/politics/rkba\n\nTo submit files change your directory to the incoming directory with\nthe command:\n\n\tcd /usr0/anon/pub/firearms/politics/incoming\nor\n\tcd pub/firearms/politics/incoming\n\nOnce you do this you'll get another ftp> prompt asking you to enter\nanother command.\n\nTo find the names of the existing files in the directory you are\nin run the command:\n\n\tls -l\n\nThis will produce something like:\n\ntotal 6021\n-r--r--r-- 1 karl 6932 Jun 16 1992 DMN_Gratia_CCP\n-r--r--r-- 1 karl 69149 Apr 5 19:20 INDEX\n-r--r--r-- 1 karl 18965 Jun 16 1992 Knox_AW_lies\n-r--r--r-- 1 karl 10930 Apr 30 1992 S361\n-r--r--r-- 1 karl 8958 Jun 16 1992 WSJ_Crimestrike\n-r--r--r-- 1 karl 2649 Jan 13 18:33 academia-bias\n-r--r--r-- 1 karl 935 Mar 22 22:38 academics\n-r--r--r-- 1 karl 36079 Aug 4 1992 aclu\n... and so on ...\n\nEach line corresponds to one file. Reading right to left, the fields\nare the file name, the last modification date of the file, the size of\nthe file in bytes, and some permission fields which you do not need\nto be concerned with.\n\nTo get a file run the command \"get\" followed by the name of the file\nyou want, for example:\n\n\tget INDEX\nor\n\tget noduty\n\nAfter the file is transfered to your machine a message like this:\n\n\tTransfer complete.\n\t19580 bytes received in 5 seconds (4 Kbytes/s)\n\nYou can repeat the get command for every file you want to retreive.\nYou can use the mget command to retreive multiple files. If the\nfile you want is in a subdirectory, for example, congress/103rd/HR1025\nyou should change your directory to the appropriate subdirectory first\nand then retrieve it:\n\n\tcd congress/103rd\n\tget HR1025\n\nOnce you're finished you can log off with the command:\n\n\tquit\n\nIf you have a file you want to contribute the procedure is a little\ndifferent. First of all you should find out if the file already\nexists, so get a copy of the index file with the procedure above\nand look it over to make sure you wouldn't repeat an entry. The\nindex will have a description of each of the files in the rkba\ndirectory. For example:\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nFile: whitemanslaw\n\nWhite Man's Law by William R. Tonso, from the December 1985\nReason magazine\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nOnce you've determined you won't be duplicating an entry, login\nand change to the incoming directory command (see above). Once\nyou are in the incoming directory use the command:\n\n\tput file_name\n\nIn this case:\n\n\tput whitemanslaw\n\nAgain there'll be a \"Transfer complete, so many bytes transfered\nin so many seconds\" message. Now your file is on the archive\nmachine.\n\nAnother thing to watch out for is duplicate file /names/. Be sure\nthere isn't a file in the incoming directory that is called the same\nas the file you want to write. If you use the same name you'll\noverwrite the previous file [or you'll get an error message].\n\nYour file may have to be renamed if there is a conflict with a\nfile by the same name in the rkba directory.\n\nOnce your file is in the incoming directory send me an entry for\nthe INDEX file and I will add it to the file.\n\nIf you cannot use anonymous ftp and would still like to contribute\na file email the file to me and I'll take care of the rest.\n\nIf you submit a file and do not notify me it may be removed, so\nbe sure to let me know first.\n\nIf you have any questions feel free to ask me.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n-- \nLarry Cipriani -- l.v.cipriani@att.com\n\n\n\n\n", "\nI'd like to point out that I was in error - \"Terminator\" began posting only \nsix months before he purchased his first firearm, according to private email\nfrom him.\n\nI can't produce an archived posting of his earlier than January 1992,\nand he purchased his first firearm in March 1992.\n\nI guess it only seemed like years.\n\nBack to your regularly scheduled flame fest.\n", "\nWhat's \"loosing?\" \n\n\nI vote. I don't consider RKBA an abomination. \n\n\nI'm sure Sarah Brady would be delighted to hear your ranting and\nraving. However, Clinton has not publically stated that he would\nlike to repeal the Second Amendment. \"Tough titty\" to you.\n\n\nAre we going to \"make do without\" like the people in New York City? \nYou know New York City: That gun ban utopia you dream about, with\nthe millions of unregistered handguns? New York City, by the way,\nhas a very high crime rate.\n\nPerhaps you should know about a gungrabber's nightmare - Idaho.\nHere in Idaho, the police give concealed carry permits to anyone\nover 21 without a criminal record. There are no gungrabber schemes\nsuch as FOIDs, waiting periods, \"gun a month,\" or LTCs. And horror\nof horrors! You don't even NEED a permit to carry a concealed\nweapon while outside of city limits (although you do need a permit\nfor concealed carry in an automobile).\n\nI feel a hell of a lot safer in Boise than I would in your gun ban\ndream state (e.g., Washington, D.C.).\n\n\nThe voting public in Idaho is staunchly pro-gun. Both senators\nare NRA-endorsed \"A\" rated! Buy a clue, pal.\n\nGet out your wallet and buy another clue. There are millions upon\nMILLIONS of pre-1968 (i.e., non-4473'ed) firearms out there.\nThey have a half-life approaching eternity. And cosmoline is not\nexactly tracked by the feds.\n\nGun control laws were passed to PROTECT the KKK from blacks!\n\nDrew", "\n\n\n\n\nI don't know for sure if Winchester made any commemeratives. If I\nrecall correctly, the rifle itself was a .44-40 Model 92 with an\noversized loop lever. I don't think Winchester makes this rifle\nany more. Rossi make a Model 92 look-alike in .38 Special and\n.357 Magnum.", "\nIt wasn't \"invented\", but was supposed by the writers of the Constitution\nto be a universal, pre-existing right. Howsomever...\n\n\nHmmm. You need to spend some time in a library, son.\n\nWhen the Bill of Rights was written, in addition to the (muzzleloading)\nshotgun and pistol you mention we had:\n\n - rifles in calibers ranging from around .30 to .69 caliber and up.\n - cannon with various different projectiles to choose from (and owned\n by civilians).\n - breech-loading rifles\n\nIn addition, semiautomatic and full-automatic firearms had been patented\nand/or demonstrated by several people in various places during the preceding\ncentury or so.\n\n\nSounds good. Any refererences to this actually happening, or is it\njust exaggeration for effect following one or more incidents of someone\nfiring a handful of shots from something that may or may not be an\nUzi, semi- or full-auto?\n\n\nUntil the root conditions that justified it go away (criminal behavior,\neither private or government, which should be defended against), there's\nno reason it should go away.\n\n-- ", " \nSorry Charles...According to the National Safety Council, ACCIDENT FACTS,1991\n\"In 1990, gun accidents were the fifth-leading cause of accidental death\nfor children ages 14 and under.\"\n \n That thinking is so screwed up, I don't even know how to respond to it.\nA rational person would concentrate on motor vehicle deaths, and not attempt\nto affect childhood falls, drownings, gunshot injuries, etc.????????????????\nSo this so called rational person, (using your definition), if he or she\nwere attempting to affect the leading causes of deaths for adults aged 25\nthrough 64 would only worry about cancer, and would not try to decrease\nLESSER CAUSES such as heart disease, injuries, stroke, suicide, liver disease,\nchronic lung disease, homicide, HIV infection, or diabetes. Oh, okay Charles,\nthat makes a lot of sense. I tell you what Charles, I'll call the Heart\nFoundation and suicide hotlines and tell them that they are not acting rational\nand that they can all go home because they are addressing the LESSER CAUSES\nof death. And you call your local police homicide department, liver foundation\nand diabetes foundation and tell them to stop addressing these lesser causes.\nPlease, quit wasting my time with this silly shit Charles.\n \nI've got an idea Charles, why don't you start a talk.politics.caraccidents\ngroup or talk.politics.fall group? This is talk.politics.guns. Don't\nconfuse the issue. Just because a social problem may not claim as many\nvictims as another, we should not try to address it? I don't agree.\nI'm not posting to t.p.g to debate the supposed severity of causes of\nchildhood deaths. I am really getting frigging sick of having to respond\nto the irrational statements of people who assume that someone who\nwants to discuss youth gun violence or unintentional youth gun deaths\nis trying to make a political issue out of it.\n \n \n Again Charles, you tend to confuse the issue and take things out of context\nfor your own purposes. The statement that you responded to above is actually\nin reference to a previous post by another person who, like you, expressed\nconcern over making youth gun violence a priority. I guess, maybe Humane\nperson and Rational person could be interchangeable huh? Both would be defined\nas \"a person who only addresses the social problem that causes the greatest\nnumber of childhood deaths.\" If that is the case, I'm extremely glad that I\nam inhumane and irrational.\n \nSorry Charles, the FBI Uniform Crime Report is WELL known for misrepresenting\nthe facts. But if you insist, according to the 1990 UCR, \"Firearm murders\nof youngsters 19 and under increased 125 percent between 1984 and 1990\"\n \nIs the National Center for Health Statistics good enough for you? They state\nthat \"Every day, 12 American children ages 19 and under are killed in gun\naccidents, suicides, and homicides. Many more are wounded\".\n \nOr how about the National Pediatric Trauma Registry? They say \"Gunshot\nwounds to children ages 16 and under nearly doubled in major urban areas\nbetween 1987 and 1990.\"\n \nDo you also doubt the American Academy of Pediatrics Charles??? They state\nthat \"Gunshot wounds among children in urban areas increased 300% from\n1986 to 1988.\"\n \nCharles, I hope you don't need to be convinced that youth are increasingly\nvictims of gun injuries and that they have easy access to guns. If you don't\nrealize this fact, (I don't care if you go by CDC or FBI data, or if you go\ninto the homes, schools, and streets where these kids are and take a poll\nby yourself), I'm not going to bother to try to convince you. Its obvious\nthat you have ruled out any idea of discussing this issue in a sane fashion\nand that you are so focused on trying to make this a gun control and political\ndiscussion. I really don't want to do that.\n \n Charles, it's obvious that you know nothing about the CDC.\nThey don't just study cancer and heart disease. I've got news for you,\ninterpersonal gun violence IS an epidemic. In 1984, Surgeon General\nC. Everett Koop declared that gun violence is as much a public health\nproblem as cancer, heart disease, or auto accidents.\n \n \nWHO THE F**K SAID ANYTHING ABOUT TEACHING CHILDREN TO SAFELY HANDLE\nFIREARM CHARLES??? In the future, if you are going to post to t.p.g and jump\ninto a previous discussion, please read the entire posting, not just 1\nsentence that you decide to respond to. What the hell are you saying here???\nYou're wasting time and space trying to make a political and gun control\nissue out of a discussion that isn't.\nCharles buddy, I'm getting really tired of this. Do you live on the planet\nMars??? As a physicist, I realize that you probably don't come into contact\nwith many youth, but I REALLY think you need to make a trip to your local\nurban high school and discover the joy of guns in schools. In addition\nspend a few minutes talking to these kids. Ask them if they have ever heard\ngunshots in their neighborhoods, whether they know anyone who has been shot,\nwhether they know anyone who has a gun, whether they have ever held a gun, and\nwhether they themselves have ever been shot.\n \nBelieve me Charles, THAT will be your *INDEPENDENT* VERIFICATION.", " >...\n >In the near future, federal martials will come for your arms.\n >No one will help you. You are more dangerous, to their thinking,\n >than the 'criminal'. This is your own fault. \n >\n >The 2nd amendment is dead. Accept this. Find another way.\n\nYou know, in many ways this might be just the kick we need to straighten\nthings out in this country. Also, people would have a need to replace\nguns with something else, perhaps deadly sprays that would make Mace and OC\nseem like water. They would be lighter and easier to conceal.\n\nGuns are really \"old\" in design and as long as we have tons of them, no one\nis motivated to design something better. I'm sure we could come up with\nsome real nasty stuff if we tried and getting rid of these guns would get\nus moving on this track asap. This is what we really want, right? Stuff\nthat's smaller, lighter and far more deadly.", ": \n: Probably not. But then, I don't pack heavy weaponry with intent to use it.\n: You don't really think he should have been allowed to keep that stuff do \n: you? If so, tell me where you live so I can be sure to steer well clear.\n\nI understand that they had the neccessary licenses and permits to own\nautomatic weapons. \n\n: The public also has rights, and they should be placed above those of the\n: individual. Go ahead, call me a commie, but you'd be singing a different\n: tune if I exercised my right to rape your daughter. He broke the law, he\n: was a threat to society, they did there job - simple.\n\nI haven't seen any proof (or even evidence) that the BD's had broken the\nlaw. If you have proof (or evidence), let's hear it. \"The FBI said so\" is\nNOT evidence.\n\n: \n: I'll support them all (except no. 2)", "\n\n\nYes. BTW, the appropriate Amendments were posted here some time ago.\n\n\nIt's OK, it's OK... Just a month ago I expressed my belief that the\nright to have a means to shoot your neighbor is not that much\nnecessary to ensure a people's right to be free and got flamed by lots\nof American gun supporters. So I thought that...\n\nNever mind. The new Cripple Chip is a purely American problem, so deal\nwith the mess yourselves. I just wanted to share with you a bit of my\nexperience of living 30 years under a totalitarian regime (I'm\nBulgarian) - because I thought that it might be useful to you. Oh\nwell.\n\nRegards,\nVesselin", " I think we just found the difference between a citizens arrest (physical \n detention of a suspect) and a report/warrant.", "\n... or consider the thousands in Central America killed by those brave\nCIA/NSC sponsored \"Freedom Fighters.\"\n\nThus far, Slick Willie is a piker.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tspl\n", "Generally, an organization has influence in proportion to:\n\n\tThe narrowness of its objectives\n\tThe number of members\n\tThe strength of belief of its members\n\nThis is why the pro- and anti-abortion groups are so strong: narrow objectives,\nlots of interested members who are real passionate.\n\nFor this reason, mixing with the NRA is probably a bad idea. It diffuses\nthe interests of both groups. It may well diminish the Passion Index\nof the combined organization. It is not clear it would greatly enlarge\nthe NRA.\n\nSo, I believe a new organization, which may cooperate with NRA where the\ntwo organization's interest coincide, is the optimum strategy.\n\nlew", "...\n\nOne might well ask if CA gun owners have given up on the NRA/CRPA.\n\nThe national NRA doesn't march in and get things passed. They provide\na convenient label for local activities/activists.\n\n-andy", "\n\nBut this is all gun control laws end up doing. Politicians can never\nmanage to get a handle on those who obtain arms illegally, so all their\nlaws can ever do is further restrict people who obtain them legally.\n\nKaren McNutt, a local attorney, states that there are about two MILLION\nlicensed gun owners in Massachusetts. In the past year, the number of\nlicensed gun owners involved in gun crimes was something like SIX.\nYet, there were a large number of gun crimes in the state last year.\n\nDoes passing laws that will further restricting only those people ALREADY\nobeying laws pay any dividents?\n\n\nSo far, I've seen them treated with the least respect by legislators.\n\n\nSee, this is what I call the \"argument from religion:\" \"I believe.\" Don't\nbelieve -- it's not NECESSARY to take this on faith. Go look at the history\nof countries that passed gun restrictions. Pay particular attention to\nwhether or not violent crime was HIGHER before the restrictions and LOWER\nafter. (Don't look at \"violent gun crimes,\" that's begging the question.)\nYou may be very surprised.\n\n\nYou have this absolutely backwards. If crime stopped in the presence of\nstrict gun control, there is NO WAY I would consider lifting any of it.\nHowever, if gun control made absolutely NO IMPROVEMENT in the violent \ncrime rate, THAT'S when I would have it lifted. Think about it.\n\nSo far, none of the stats show any improvement...\n\n\nDo you really think driver's tests are any indication of your propensity\nfor having accidents? \n\nI've never known anybody stupid enough to take a driving test while \ndrunk; after having been up all night; with two fighting kids in the \nback seat; with a hot cup of coffee on their lap; or while putting on \nmakeup, reading the newspaper, or talking on their cellular phone. \nBut that's what they're doing when they have those accidents.\n\n\nHow can anything that has no positive effect at all ever be \"necessary?\"\n\n\nAnd it didn't help, any of it.\n\n\nI'm sorry, I don't remember any story where Winnie the Pooh was\noffered weapons.\n-- ", "\n Mr. Parsli, I have to take exception at this. There are\nverifiable, previous *examples* of levels of U.S. governments\nabusing gun-control restrictions. I don't think it is paranoid\nto worry that what has been abused in the recent past might be abused\nin thye future. After so many times of getting burned any sane person\nwill stop putting his hand on the stove.\n\n\n I'd love to. But as long as the politicians grab power to sell\npork back to their constituents, there's not a lot I can do. \n\n It's silly to suggest that if there's anything we can't trust\nthe government to do, and therefore the government should be allowed\nto do it, then we should change governments. Down that road lies\ntotal government power. I've never been a fan of totalitarianism.\n\n\n This is very likely.\n\n\n The North American Continent is not Europe, no matter how many\npeople would like it to be. Drugs are very illegal and they're\nhere. For years Canada has crowed about its gun control. If it is\nnecessary to control guns over the whole continent, then Canada should\nhave always had comparable rates to the U.S., yet they still don't.\nUnless you can tell me why the Canadian border is so much more\nmagical than the Mexican border (which is shorter and far more\nheavily patrolled) then I really can't accept that argument.\n\n\n No, there are approximately 31,000 deaths due to guns in the U.S.,\ntwo-thirds of which are suicides. (Unfortunately I don't have suicide\nrates for Norway.) However, this makes the per-gun death rate about\nhalf the per-car death rate.\n\n\n The problem's been humans since before we had stone axes. The\nfct of the matter is simply this: If nobody ever assaulted anybody,\nwhether there is a weapon of any sort around would be totally\nirrelevent.\n\n Yet weapons are *built*. I'd suggest, then, that the murderous\nimpulse in humanity pre-dates weapons.\n\n Anyway, the Bosnians et al. have been making an excellent attempt\nto kill each other for half a thousand years. Taking away their guns, even\nif we could, would neither halt the killing nor reduce the brutality.\n\n\n\n In the U.S., approximately 60% of murders are commited with firearms.\n(50% with handguns, 10% with non-handguns.) The reason I say that guns, per \nse, are not the problem, is that our non-gun rate exceeds most of Europe's\ncountries *entire* violent crime rate. I don't really think we've got\nmore knives or fists. \n\n In any case, I think examples of gun control *applied* to the U.S.\nhave been abkect failures, just like drug prohibition and other forms\nof prohibition. Until you deal with *why* people are doing what they\nare doing, you won't solve your problem. And if the problem is \nviolent crime, you shouldn't concentrate on the tools instead. The\n*vast* majority of guns is never, ever misused. (On the order of\n99.5% over the entire lifetime of the gun). This says to me that\nyou can't make the argument that the gun itself causes the misuse.\n\n\n The situation is not \"good\" in that people fear for their lives.\nBut recall the scenes of the store-owners during the last riots,\nprotecting their shops with guns. Would it have been better they,\ntoo, lost their livelihoods?\n\n\n The problem of poverty and rage in Los Angeles, no it isn't.\nHowever, if that problem becomes a violent action, then yes, it can\nbe appropriate. Whether or not some person has been hurt by their condition\nwon't make me less dead if they burn down my house with me in it.\n\n You have to examine which problem you're referring to. If\nyou're discussing someone violently assaulting you, then it is\na perfectly legitimate response to make them stop. (Hopefully\nsimply letting them know you're prepared to shoot them would be enough,\nas it was with the above-mentioned store-owners.)\n\n\n 45% of Households have some form of firearm, usually a long gun.\nThat accounts for a level of access for at least 100 million Americans.\nFirearm ownership is most likely among educated, well-off whites, the\ngroup *least* likely to be involved in violent crime.\n\n You may take that for what it's worth.\n", "Hi,\n\nIn Canada, any gun that enters a National Park must be sealed (I think it's a\nsmall metal tag that's placed over the trigger). The net result of this is\nthat you _can't_ use a gun to protect yourself from bears (or psychos) in the\nNational Parks. Instead, one has to be sensitive to the dangers and annoyances\nof hiking in bear country, and take the appropriate precautions.\n\nI think this policy makes the users of the National Parks feel a little closer\nto Nature, that they are a part of Nature and, as such, have to deal with\nnature on it's own terms.", "Mark Wilson responding to C.D. Tavares:\n\n\nMW>|So the laws exist, and the penalties are as you say, but nobody is ever\nMW>|prosecuted under these laws. They are \"traded away\" for easy pleas.\n\nMW>Having such gun laws on the books is still better than nothing.\nMW>What would the DA have traded away in order to get the guilty plea if the\nMW>gun law had not been in effect.\n\nOur liberty?\n\nRight...don't even think about enforcing the law and imposing the prescribed\npenalty....let's hose the citizens instead.\n---\n . OLX 2.2 . Madness takes its toll - please have exact change\n ", "From article <1993Apr18.001319.2340@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu>, by jrm@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu:\n\nIt certainly is provable. Around a million Americans every year defend\nthemselves with firearms. In many of these cases the defender doesn't even\nhave to fire a shot! The mere presence of a gun is oftentimes all the\ndeterrent that is needed.\n\nI don't like violence anymore than anyone else does. But, taking away the\nright of Americans to keep and bear arms is not the solution to the violent\ncrime problem in this country. If honest, law-abiding citizens are unable\nto get firearms then they will be preyed on even more by criminals who will\nbe able to acquire guns through illegal channels. Expect to start seeing\nthe crime syndicates who smuggle drugs into this country start smuggling\nguns. Believe me this will happen. There is *plenty* of economic\nincentive for gangsters to illegaly import guns into this country if guns\nshould be banned by the Klintonistas.\n\n\nStatistics, por favor?\n\n\nSee my previous post. That ought to set you straight.\n\n\nPeople have the right to keep and bear arms no matter what the\nConstitution says. That means that even if the 2nd Amendment is\nrepealed the *people* (that's all American citizens FYI) will *still*\nhave the right to keep and bear arms.\n\n\nScott Kennedy, Brewer and Patriot", "The following is quoted from the tail end of a (rather condescending)\narticle about Paxton Quigley, that appeared in US Snooze and World Lies,\n(sorry... i think it was in the wall street journal...)\nand was repeated in the Colorado (people's) Daily, a student newspaper\nat the University of Colorado at Boulder.\n\n\"A study of residential gunsot deaths in King County, Wash., found that\na gun in the home was 43 times more likely to be used to kill its owner,\nspouse, a friend, or child than to kill an intruder. Studies by the \nWestern Psychiatric Institute, in Pittsburgh, found that the mere presence\nof a gun in the home sharply incresases the likelihood a family member\nwill commit suicide, even in the absence of psychiatric illness.\"\n\nI have seen these numbers quoted before, and I have seen very specific\nrefutation of them quoted as well. If someone will be so kind as to\nemail the relevant information, I will write a letter to the editor of\nthe Co. Daily (which might get published) and send a copy to USN&WR as\nwell.\n\nThanx...\n\n--Dan\n\n--\n DoD #202 / loki@acca.nmsu.edu / liberty or death / taylordf@ucsu.colorado.edu \n Send me something even YOU can't read...\n-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----\nVersion: 2.1", "\nHmm. I beg to differ. It will probably make a big difference at some\npoint.\n\n\nThankfully, it is true that the majority go through life without\nhaving to use a firearm. Howver, there are situations where firearms\nare the most effective means of self protection. What other means do\nyou propose as equally effective?\n\n\n\nNew to this country? New to political theory?\nAlas, I was speaking of principle. Without principle, all attempts at\nrepublican forms of gov't are futile. There are times when public and\npolitical opinion are contrary to principle, which is why we have a\nConstitution which enumerates gov't powers and presumes certain\nrights. A major reason for this was to prevent a tyranny of the\nmajority.\n\n\nThis is exactly why law should be based on reasoned thought, not\nimmediate perception. Of course, it doesn't always work that way.\nFortunately, while there are no guarantees, logic sometimes does\nprevail. And, if not, there are still means for correction. \nAs far as \"enough active voters\" are concerned, that is still\nan open question until the vote is made.\n\n\nYou portray a possible scenario for the future. But, how will you\nsilence RKBA supporters right now? As long as public debate is\nallowed, such debate will continue. If we allow public debate to be\nrestricted or denied, then we will get a gov't we deserve.", "\nI don't know this specific ratio, but I do have an earlier post that says\na gun is 33 times more likely to defend someone (including the times where\nthe gun isn't fired, just scares the perpetrator away) than it is to kill\nsomeone. (including self defense) The post is kind of long, but I'll be\nglad to dig it up and email it to anyone who asks.\n\nDoug Holland\n\n-- ", ":Yea, there are millions of cases where yoy *say* that firearms\n:'deter' criminals. Alas, this is not provable. I think that that\n:there are actually *few* cases where this is so. \n\nYou \"think\" wrong. Ask the FBI. They've got the proof. Look it up.\n\n:The bulk of firarems are used against unworthy and unnesessary\n:opponents ... those who posessa a cool jakcet you want, those who\n:would argue with you about a parking space, those who would\n:take your woman. In short, trivial and worthless causes.\n\nYou lie like a snake. The \"vast majority\" of the 200 MILLION firearms\nin this country are never used in anger. Your feelings notwithstanding.\n\n:Too much of this has ruined you cause. There is no recovery. \n:In the near future, federal martials will come for your arms.\n:No one will help you. You are more dangerous, to their thinking,\n:than the 'criminal'. This is your own fault. \n\nWe will overcome the kind of blind, pig-headed, utterly stupid idiocy that\nyou and others spout in a vain attempt to further your own agendas. We\nwill make the truth be known, despite your best efforts to the contrary.\n\n:The 2nd amendment is dead. Accept this. Find another way.\n\nThe Second Amendment won't be dead unless it is repealed. That won't happen.\n\nEVER.\n\nAccept this. Find another way to try and control other's lives, because we\nsee you for what you are, and we are not fooled.\n\nMike Ruff\n\n\n", "(I deleted your name because I don't want to sound accusative in my remark)\nI'm not going to argue the issue of carrying weapons, but I would ask you if \nyou would have thought seriously about shooting a kid for setting off your\nalarm? I can think of worse things in the world. Glad you got out of there\nbefore they did anything to give you a reason to fire your gun.\n\nWe can all ask \"what's happening to society these days\", but don't forget to\nask another important question too: What effort am I expending to make it any\ndifferent than it is?", "\nRather, people kill people with guns. The sad truth is: sometimes that is\ngood, or at least, better than the alternative.\n\n\nOk. There are about 1400 fatal firearm accidents per year [1], and the\nnumber has been in decline since early this century [2]. Most of these\naccidents involve rifles or shot guns, not handguns.\n\n...\n\nIn fact there are both guns and bullets designed specifically for that. \nThe idea that my Ruger Mark II Bull Barrel (a semi-auto 0.22 caliber\nhandgun) was designed to kill or hurt people, even for self defense,\nwould, I'm sure, come as a surprise to its designer. It certainly isn't\nwhy I have it. It certainly would hurt someone if you shot them with it,\nand might even kill them, but it is simply wrong to say it was designed to\nkill people.\n\n\nIn fact, that is what happens most of the time. Most self defensive uses\nof firearms don't involve firing any shots. Most criminals would prefer\nnot to be shot, and will go to some effort not to be, including doing what\nyou say when you point a gun at them.\n\nIf you were called on to design a tool, that could be easily carried, to\nimmediately stop someone attacking you, what would it be? A handgun is\nabout the best anyone has come up with and experience shows it does work\nthe best.[3]\n\n\nCertainly, no one argues that handguns (of the type we are discussing)\naren't deadly weapons. However, it simply isn't true to say that all of\nthem were designed to kill people. Moreover, what exactly is wrong with\nhaving deadly weapons? There are times when it is perfectly legitimate to\nuse deadly force, e.g. in self defense. I consider it not just my right,\nbut my duty to defend myself and my family, and that includes having and\nknowing how to use the tools to do that.\n\n\"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear\narms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in\ngovernment.\"\n\t- T. Jefferson.\n\nI think what Jefferson said is still true.\n\n\nNot very often compared to other use.[3]\n\n\nThis isn't that common either, at least when compared to other uses. It is\nvery rare that a non-violent person will suddenly \"get-pissed\" and kill\nsomeone, gun or not. In most cases, the people who murder have long\nhistories of violence. If you have good reason to believe that these\npeople wouldn't kill if they didn't have a gun, feel free to present it.\n\n\nRight, but there are times when killing things is called for. I hope I\nnever have to shoot a person, but I've had to kill a number of animals from\nrodents to cows, and when I do, I don't want them to suffer any more than\nis necessary. I prefer they die instantly, but failing that, I want them\nto drop so I can quickly finish them with the next shot, and failing that,\nI don't want them to go fast or far. I try to choose the best weapon and\nammunition I have to try to achieve that goal for the size of animal I'm\nafter, but it doesn't always work as I plan. Without belaboring the point,\npeople who are overly impressed with the killing or shopping power of guns,\nparticularly handguns, haven't used them much for that purpose.\n\n\n[1] Accidental deaths in 1988:\n\t48700 deaths by auto\n\t11300 deaths by fall\n\t 5300 deaths by drowning\n\t 4800 deaths by fire\n\t 4400 deaths by poison\n\t 3200 deaths by food\n\t 1400 deaths by firearm\n\n Source: Statistics Department, National Safety Council.\n \"Accidents Facts 1988 Edition\". National Safety Council.\n 444 N. Michigan Avenue, Chicago IL 606111 (800) 621-7619\n\n\n[2] RKBA.002 - Declining trend of accidental deaths by firearms\n Version 1.1 (last changed on 90/04/23 at 22:28:19)\n\nDESCRIPTION\n===========\nThe accidental deaths by firearm per capita has been declining steadily \nfor almost sixty years. In 1932, the accidental deaths by firearm per \n1,000,000 people was 24.03. In 1987, it was 5.74. The decline has been \nsteady, consistent, and a fairly straight line when plotted. At the rate \nof the last sixty years, it will reach zero sometime around 2025 AD.\n\nCONCLUSION\n==========\nFirearms have been a declining factor in accidental deaths for over \nsixty years, despite rising per-capita gun ownership.\n\n\n\n[1] = Year.\n[2] = Population.\n[3] = Accidental deaths.\n[4] = Accidental deaths per 1,000,000.\n\n\n[1] [2] [3] [4] [1] [2] [3] [4] \n1932 124,840,000 3,000 24.03 1961 183,691,000 2,204 12.00\n1933 125,579,000 3,014 24.00 1962 186,538,000 2,092 11.21 \n1934 126,374,000 3,033 24.00 1963 189,242,000 2,263 11.96 \n1935 127,250,000 2,799 22.00 1964 191,889,000 2,275 11.86 \n1936 128,053,000 2,817 22.00 1965 194,303,000 2,344 12.06 \n1937 128,825,000 2,576 20.00 1966 196,560,000 2,558 13.01 \n1938 129,825,000 2,726 21.00 1967 198,712,000 2,896 14.57 \n1939 130,880,000 2,618 20.00 1968 200,706,000 2,394 11.93 \n1940 132,122,000 2,375 17.98 1969 202,677,000 2,309 11.39 \n1941 133,402,000 2,396 17.96 1970 204,879,000 2,406 11.74 \n1942 134,860,000 2,678 19.86 1971 207,661,000 2,360 11.36 \n1943 136,739,000 2,282 16.69 1972 209,896,000 2,442 11.63 \n1944 138,397,000 2,392 17.28 1973 211,909,000 2,618 12.35 \n1945 139,928,000 2,385 17.04 1974 213,854,000 2,613 12.22 \n1946 141,389,000 2,801 19.81 1975 215,854,000 2,380 11.03 \n1947 144,126,000 2,439 16.92 1976 218,035,000 2,059 9.44 \n1948 146,631,000 2,191 14.94 1977 220,239,000 1,982 9.00 \n1949 149,188,000 2,330 15.62 1978 222,585,000 1,806 8.11 \n1950 151,684,000 2,174 14.33 1979 225,055,000 2,004 8.90\n1951 154,287,000 2,247 14.56 1980 227,757,000 1,955 8.58 \n1952 156,954,000 2,210 14.08 1981 230,138,000 1,871 8.13\n1953 159,565,000 2,277 14.27 1982 232,520,000 1,756 7.55 \n1954 162,391,000 2,271 13.98 1983 234,799,000 1,695 7.22 \n1955 165,275,000 2,120 12.83 1984 237,001,000 1,668 7.04 \n1956 168,221,000 2,202 13.09 1985 239,279,000 1,649 6.89 \n1957 171,274,000 2,369 13.83 1986 241,613,000 1,600 6.62 \n1958 174,141,000 2,172 12.47 1987 243,915,000 1,400 5.74 \n1959 177,073,000 2,258 12.75 \n1960 180,671,000 2,334 12.92\n\nSources: \nU.S. Bureau of the Census, Historical Statistics of the United States, \nColonial Times to 1970, Bicentennial Edition, Part 2, Washington, DC, 1975.\n\nU.S. Bureau of the Census, Statistical Abstract of the United States: \n1982-83. (103th edition.) Washington, DC, 1982 [sic]..\n\nU.S. Bureau of the Census, Statistical Abstract of the United States: \n1989 (109th edition.) Washington, DC, 1989.\n\n\n[3] Kleck, Gary. \"Guns and Self-Defense: Crime Control through the Use of\nForce in the Private Sector.\" __Social Problems__ 35(1988):4, pp. 7-9.", "\nCarrying a pistol, loaded or unloaded, in the glove compartment, is\nconsidered carrying a concealed weapon in Colorado and is illegal without\na concealed weapons permit. Unless the law has been changed recently,\ncarrying a weapon openly is legal in Colorado but concealing it is illegal.\nI read a newspaper account last year where police stopped a car on a\ntraffic infraction and observed a .357 magnum revolver sitting on the\nseat. The driver could not be cited for possessing or carrying the weapon\nbecause it was not concealed. The article stated that if the gun had\nbeen discovered in the glove box, it would have been considered a crime.\n", "\n\tAs a stong self-defense advocate, you're 'statement', does littel\nbut irk me. Of course shooting someone because they throw a rock at your\ncar is out of the question, but what if they disabled your car with their\nrock and then wanted to come kill/rape/rob/beat/ or otherwise harm you,\nyour wife, kids? \n\tI think you would like the power to defend yourself in this situation,\nwouldn't you? Or is it that you value the lives of such rock throwers\nmore than your own or those of your family? \n\tDon't think it couldn't happen to you. From the sounds of it here\nit has happened to a few people. \n\n\tPlease do not misunderstand. The only justification for using\ndeadly force on someone, is that if you don't, it will mean your own \ndeath or grave bodily harm. I am far far away from supporting\nvilante justice or anything like that..\n\n\tOh, and if you mean to be funny, please add the appropriate :-)\n\t\nFollowups to talk.politics.guns please... we're getting a bit off track\nhere....", "# So the Blue PRess suggests that we bankrupt HCI by requesting information\n# and the concern by list members is that HCI will claim everyone that calls\n# as a new member. I think they will. I also think they will claim a new\n# MANDATE to ban all firearms from the solar system wheter we call and ask for\n# information or not!\n# \n# On the other hand, with due respect to the Editor of the Blue PRess, just\n# becaue Mike makes damned good presses, dies, powder scales, and got tired of\n# Lee's atacks DOES NOT MEAN THAT EVERY DILLON FAN FOLLOWS WHAT MIKE CALLS FOR\n# LIKE HE WAS KARESH AND WE WERE TRANSDILLIDIANS! \n# \n# Our local State Assemblyman has called for a complete ban on all non-bolt\n# action military rifles and all assault weapons, a 7 day wait for purchase\n# permits { it currently takes 10 to 14 working days here in NC } and one\n# permit/year. The flood of calls he got was 7 for and 3 against. Guess who\n# called supporting his move? Guess what ILA is doing? Right?\n# \n# CHL\n# \n\n\n", "\nhow so? i think you're making assumptions here that might not \nnecessarily be true. -my- personal choice would be a semi-auto, but \nrevolvers are just as effective, if not more so.\n\n\nrelevancy, please? you sound shocked, but that hardly proves anything.\n\n\nwait, doesn't Chicago have -serious- gun control? if so, why do the\npolice need all that firepower in the first place? (sarcasm alert)\n\nall the patrol cars i've seen around here have shotguns clamped to \nthe dash board. IMHO, that's all the police need to outgun just about \nanything.\n\njason\n", "\n\n \"A handful of anti-gun zealots are telling the public that their\nright to self-defense is of less importance than the interests of\nHandgun Control, Inc. This action comes as local, state and federal law\nenforcement officials continue their assault on the Branch Davidian\ncompound--an assault which has already resulted in the death of one\ntwo year old child at the hands of federal agents. This has highlighted\nthe need for citizens to be able to defend themselves and their children\nagainst the excesses of their own government.\"\n\n\n \"Any suggestion by opponents that this bill will increase crime is a \ndistortion of the facts, at best. The aggressive outreach by officials\nin central Florida to train and arm women has led to a dramatic drop in\nthe level of assault and rape in that area. Of course, this program is\na rare gem, as many law enforcement officials apparently believe that an\nunarmed citizenry will be easier to control, and thus favor tighter \nrestrictions.\"\n\n\n \"The vote today is a tribute to the good sense of the public at large\nwho are putting their lives on the line every day as they go about their\nlawful affairs. The entire country knows how vulnerable the average \ncitizen is, both to attacks from criminals and from armed assault by our\nown police. Texas lawmakers who voted for this concealed handgun bill have\nshown total understanding for those innocent, law-abiding citizens on the\nfront lines, and the families of those who have fallen.\"\n\n\n \"I urge the House of Representatives to pay attention to the needs\nof their constituents, and not be stampeded by ill-conceived arguments\nfrom ideological fanatics.\"\n\nAin't propaganda fun?\n", "\n\nPreliminary data regarding similar research into kangaroo overpopulation\nin Australia do not in any way support the cost-effectiveness of this\napproach. It _may_ be cost-effective for deer--if you quietly overlook\nthe fact that the net cost to the state of deer hunting is _negative_\n(i.e. a profit) because the (majority of) hunters pay for licences.\nThe cost comparisons are probably being done assuming that people have\nto be employed to cull the animals, which is not in fact the case.\nYou figure people are going to pay for licences to implant contraceptive\npellets or spread baits?\n\nThere has been a fair bit of discussion about this here recently,\nbecause the kangaroo population in the grounds of the Governor-\nGeneral's residence has now reached plague proportions. Despite the\nwhines of the rampant animal-libbers, the most effective method of\ncontrolling the population is still considered to be controlled\nshooting.\n\n\nSome people take satisfaction (IMHO, legitimate satisfaction) in eating\nfood that they have harvested themselves. The pleasure derived from\nhunting is the same as that you get from eating fruit and vegetables\ngrown in your own garden (and, in general, game meat is probably much \nfreer of unpleasant chemicals than what you buy from the butcher or\nthe supermarket).\n\n\nBy \"cannot now be justified\" I guess you mean that you personally\ndon't see any justification. Fine--but what makes your opinion\nso important?\n\n\nCertainly the last point is correct. If politicians don't see any\nvotes for themselves in opposing stupid legislation or in developing\nand supporting measures which might be effective in reducing the \nincidence of violent crime they won't do these things.", "\nOk, this is the only thing I will comment on from Stan at this time...\npart of this forum we call rec.scouting is for policy discussions and\nrelated topics. This is a policy discussion, and involves related \ntopics. this is not a \"fringe\" group discussion. obviously, it \nengenders strong feelings from all sides of the issues at hand. \nWether a particular view is anti-societal or not is your opinion, \nand yours alone, don't try to make it seem otherwise. \nIf you do not wish to engage in this discussion, use a kill file. \nIf you wish to continue in this discussion, please do so, knowing \nfull well the implications that apply.\nI know for myself that I plan on continuing with the discussion when \ni have the wish to have input. I for one am tired of people trying to \nsay that this is not a matter significant for this group! It is, and \nquite so. Especially for those of us who feel the impact more closely.\n", "\nThat includes suicides. Since it has been shown in other countries that\nsuicide rates are pretty much independent of the means available for\ndoing oneself in (studies include some done/published in Japan, Canada,\nAustria, Norway), suicides ought not be included in the count.\n\nIf this is done, the number of vehicle-related deaths greatly exceeds that\nof firearms-related deaths in Texas.\n\n\nCertainly not.\n\n\nWhy? Unless it's doing something that directly hurts someone else, what's\nthe point? (Otherwise, you'd better stop operating all motor vehicles, since\nthe price of operating them *greatly* exceeds the cost in lives of firearms.\n\n\nWEll, it's been done at least twice. South (North?) Carolina did it a few\nyears back...and watched its crime rate relative to the rest of the country\nrise quite a bit.\n\nVirginia just passed the law...no word yet on what the results will be, but\nI'd be willing ot bet that a reduction in crime rates won't be one of them.\n\n\nSelf-defense doesn't \"inflict\" on other people (except perhaps the criminal\nwho's tried to do you damage, and maybe indirectly on future potential victims\nwho might not become victims).\n\n\n\n-- ", "\nAnd, I might add, vitamin C has been endorsed by a Nobel Laureate as a\npanacea for almost everything from the common cold to cancer. \n\n\nWait a minute. S&K did NOT compare trends. If they did, they would\nhave seen that the advent of Canada's gun law had no effect on\nhomicides, total or handgun. Without a pre- vs. post comparison, one\ncannot speculate as to the utility of anything. All they have is a\ncorrelation, and correlation DOES NOT prove causality.\n\n\n\nHold it again. You dismiss a point about demographics, then you ask\nabout socio-economic demographics? Very slick.\n\nOnce again, correlation does not prove causality. Looking at pre-vs.\npost data, the Canadian gun law had no effect.\n\n\nSir, if you were a Canadian, and owned a gun before the restrictive\ngun laws were passed, and decided to hide it rather than turn it in,\nwould you answer truthfully a question about gun ownership from\nsomeone who calls, writes, or asks you on the street? That is one\nproblem with surveys. Nobody will answer an incriminating question.\nAnother is that people will often tell you what they THINK you want to\nhere.\n\n\nDoes that mean no Vancouver citizens have handguns? I think not. You\nare discounting guns purchased beforehand, and guns purchased for\npurposes other than self-defense, which can also be used for defense.\n\n\nHe makes valid points about demographic differences. You then resort\nto the kind of argument that the \"Politically Correct\" movement often\nuses to stifle any debate. Nice, real nice.\n\n\n\nOne doesn't have to produce his own data in order to point out the\nflaws in the methodology and conclusions of another's study. Again,\nyou resort to PC tactics.\n", ":|> >wrong about the whole guns-for-protection mindset, it ignores the\n:|> \n:|> Why? If you're not a threat, you're not affected at all.\n:|> \n:\n:Aha. That's the part that makes me nervous too. Who gets to decide if\n:I am a threat? Based on appearance? Would someone feel more threatened\n:\nActions determine whether someone presents a threat... and I don't carry a gun\nso much for people, cause I tend to fade if there are any about, but due to \nseveral encounters with formerly domestic dogs... these critters ain't scared\nof folks, and can get aggressive.\n\n:on staying at and saw someone sitting there cleaning his gun. Softly I backed\n:away, and hiked another 5 miles to get *out of there*. I'll freely admit it here:\n:I'm not afraid of guns; I'm afraid of people that bring them into the backcountry.\n:\nI'd count that as a fear of guns... somebody having the sense to keep their\nweapons maintained isn't as likely to present a threat. The Army taught me to\nclean any weapons DAILY, since they usually need it, regardless of whether \nthey've been used... You'd be amazed how sweaty a holster can get, or how much\ntrail dust will get in it. And I guess you'd be scared of me and my former\nExplorer Post... seems the advisors were National Guard Special Forces grunts,\nand considered it heresy to be out in the woods without a weapon... course, \nusually you wouldn't notice 'em... :) They tended to avoid public scrutiny...\n\n:Of course, that may be the way to solve the solitude problem. Just carry a gun\n:and display it prominently, and one probably won't see most of the other hikers\n:out there, who will be hiding in the woods. 1/2 :-)\n:\n: - Dania\nMy 9mm goes in a hip holster, mixed in with magazine pouches (hold lotsa stuff \nin them), canteens, knives, compasses, and such... Not so easy to notice, in \nthe off chance I decide to be visible... I prefer not to be, since walking \nquietly away from active areas increases the number of non-human type critters\nI see...\n\nJames\n\n", "Does anybody have any solid data on how many legally owned versus\nillegally owned firearms are used in crime. I know the number of\nlegally owned guns used in crime is small, but I would like a number,\nand a reference if possible.\n\nData should be e-mailed to me.\nOpen discussion should be directed to talk.politics.guns\n\n-Seth\n\n__________________________________________________________________________\n[unlike cats] dogs NEVER scratch you when you wash them. They just\nbecome very sad and try to figure out what they did wrong. -Dave Barry", "[deleted]\n\nWhich crap, the ridiculous assertions that Uzis are mowing down cops\nright and left? The assertions that dialing 911 should be the proper\nand only option available to the law-abiding citizens?\n\nA factoid:\n\n56 cops were killed in the whole country last year. This is down from\naround 100 in the early '80s. Wow, a real explosion in cop killings\nthere eh? :-)\n", " From psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell) on rec.martial-arts...\n >I'm sure such weapons have been developed. Our society does not,\n >however, condone their possession or use. \n\nActually, Joe, I wrote the above. Peter was responding to my article.\n\nI'm actually rather confused by your post. I suppose I didn't\nmake myself clear, cause you seem to have gotten exactly the\nopposite impression from what I intended. I suppose \"the authorities\"\nmight have been a better term than \"society\". Carry and use a firearm\nin many parts of the country (certainly the parts I live in), and expect,\nat the very least, to have an awful lot of explaining to do.\nAnd there is also appears to be a trend in society at large that\nactively opposes what many see as their right to defend themselves.\n\n In a few other parts of our society, handguns are banned or\n so restricted as to be practically unavailable to the law-\n abiding citizen for self-defense outside the home. Funny, \n though, how the criminals in such places continue to have a \n lush supply of guns and no compunctions about using them. \n IMHO, you don't need to be either a political philosopher or \n a crime victim to realize that there's a flaw in the gun-\n grabbers' logic. \n\nAgreed.\n\n You're welcome to your HO, too, the First Amendment being as \n important as the Second, but please don't let your obvious \n good intentions be subverted by insupportable generalities \n about something as big and diverse as US society.\n\nMy only intention was to comment that the existence of suitable\nweapons of self defense doesn't mean you'll escape a whole shitload\nof trouble should you be forced to use them.\n\n Or by the\n naive hope that making gun possession a crime will give pause \n to someone who would be a criminal anyway.\n\nI made no such statements, nor do I have such a naive hope or outlook. \n \n Wishing you peace and the wherewithal to defend yourself\n if others' thoughts are not that kindly,\n\nThat's all I want: the opportunity to leave in peace, or to \nhave the means to defend myself when that in not possible.\n\nI *think* we agree on this issue. I guess my position didn't\nsurvive the transition from cognition to ASCII.\n", "------------------------- Original Article -------------------------\n\nThe Colorado Daily recently reprinted the Wall Street Journal's article\non Paxton Quigley, including the nefarious little paragraph the Journal\ntacked onto the end. After recieving much assistance from various T.P.G.\ntype folks, I wrote a letter to the editor criticizing this last paragraph,\nand surprise, surprise, surprise, they published it. The text follows.\nThe Colorado Daily, btw, is the University of Colorado (Boulder) student\n(I think) newspaper... not exactly a big coup, but every little bit, i guess...\n\n(The title was the only thing they changed/added)\n\n\"Gun Stats\"\n\nThe Daily recently reprinted an article from the\nWall Street Journal, primarily concerned with Paxton\nQuigley, author of \"Armed and Female.\" The article,\nin turn, cites a misleading statistic that was originally\nreported in the New England Journal of Medicine. The\narticle states, \"A study... found that a gun in the home\nwas 43 times more likely to be used to kill its owner,\nspouse, a friend, or child than to kill an intruder.\" This\nis an often-quoted statistic, and it is misleading for sev-\neral reasons, outlined below:\n\nThe study gives the impression that, if you own a\ngun, the likelihood that you will successfully use it to\ndefend yourself is less than that of the gun being turned\nagainst you. The study, however, fails to take into\naccount cases where a law-abiding citizen uses a gun\nto thwart a crime, without actually killing the perpe-\ntrator.\n\nThe study actually refers to 'acquaintances' rather\nthan 'friend'. This would include the friendly neigh-\nborhood thug who shows up like clockwork, every\nmonth, the second your grandmother cashes her social\nsecurity check. Possibly an acquaintance, but hardly a\nfriend.\n\nThe NEJM study is based on the immediate dis-\nposition of cases and fails to take into account cases\noriginally filed as homicides that were later ruled to be\nself-defense. Especially considering the small sample\nsize (396), taking these events into account has a sub-\nstantial effect on the 43:1 ratio quoted.\n\nCriminologist Gary Kleck gives us a slightly dif-\nerent statistic: a gun is 33 times more likely to be\nused, successfully, by a private citizen against an\naggressor than it is to kill anyone at all. Further, per-\nsons defending themselves from aggression by using a\ngun fare better than those who resist vicimization by\nsome other means, or who offer no resistance at all.\nStatistics available from the FBI and other agencies\nalso show that a gun is 245 times more likely to be\nused by a non-criminal to defend against criminal threat\nthan to be used to commit criminal homicide, 535 times\nmore likely to be used to defend against a criminal\nthreat than to accidentally kill anybody, and 50 times\nmore likely to defend against criminal threat than to be\nused to commit suicide.\n\nIt is well to keep in mind that nearly anything can\nbe proved by uncritical quotation of statistics. One has\nto consider carefully what questions were asked by\nthose gathering the data before one can draw an accu-\nrate conclusion from them.\n\nD.F. Taylor\nCU Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry\n\n\n--\nSpooksmoke: Revolution, Assasination, Thorium, Cobalt-60, Clintin, CIA, NSA, SHC\n DoD #202 / loki@acca.nmsu.edu / liberty or death / taylordf@ucsu.colorado.edu\n Send me something even YOU can't read...\n-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----\nVersion: 2.2", "\nUm. Would you mind telling us what state/municipality you live in? There\nare different laws in different places, you know.\n\n tom coradeschi <+> tcora@pica.army.mil", "\n\n\nThere is one point I'd like to make, that most people seem to have forgotten.\nThat is that one of the underlining principles in the Constitution is a DISTRUST\nof governmental authority and control. All those \"checks & balances\" is because\nthey realize that you should distrust those in power. What everyone seems to have\nforgotten as well is the original reason that the Bill of Rights guaranteed the\nright to bear arms. It's inclusion was not to allow you to protect yourself\nagainst other citizens, but to prevent the government from taking away your only\nmeans of protecting yourself from an armed and aggressive government. Its hard to\noppress your citizenry when its armed against you.\n\nI am not a fanatic, I'm a retired Naval officer. Because I have spent so much\ntime defending it, perhaps I understand its \"purpose\" as well as its \"plan\".", "\n\n\n\nIn Texas, you cannot carry a handgun. Period. Either concealed or open.\nAnd your numbers are misleading; they include suicides and accidents. The\nreal number from the Department of Public Safety:\n\n Murders, Non-neg hom\t\tCar fatalities\n1991\t\t\t2651\t\t\t 3079\n1992\t\t\t2240\t\t\t 3057\n\nTexas only has \"liberal\" gun laws as far as purchasing a firearm; aside \nfrom that, it's probably more restrictive than most states as far as carry\ngoes.\n\n\n\nThe state was Virginia, and the law passed.\n\n\nThat right only inflicts on those who threaten my rights to life,\nliberty, the pursuit of happiness, etc., in the first place. I am not\na criminal, and I don't indiscriminately fire my weapons at random. \nSo please explain how I am \"inflicting\" anything on other people.\n\n\n", "Excerpts from netnews.talk.politics.guns: 21-Apr-93 The Dayton Gun \"Buy\nBack\" (.. by Larry Cipriani@cbnews.cb \n\nPro-gun people can take used pot-metal guns with sale values LESS THAN\n$50.00 and turn them in, thus making a profit at the gun-grabbers\nexpense.\n\n-Seth\n\n__________________________________________________________________________\n[unlike cats] dogs NEVER scratch you when you wash them. They just\nbecome very sad and try to figure out what they did wrong. -Dave Barry", "\nIn Texas, it is legal to carry handguns while \"traveling\", and also to and from\nsporting activities. ^^^^^^^^\n\nChapter 46 of the Texas State Penal Code does NOT restrict long guns.\nTherefore, it is legal to carry and transport long guns any place in Texas.", "\n\tAs a matter of fact, I know it.\n\n\tThere were several shootings recently in which the guns had\nbeen purchased at the Baltimore Gunsmith, on Broadway - a favorite\nplace to get cheap \"popular\" pieces. By \"popular\" I am referring to\nthe kinds of guns our local youth gangs like: pistol grip shotguns,\ncheap magnums, and Tec-9s.\n\n\tI hate to poke a hole in your bubble, but I was referring\nto a specific gunstore, and specific incidents. Any other questions?", ":You are loosing.\n\n\"Loosing\"? Well, I'll avoid the spelling flames and see if this person\ncan make up for it.\n\n\n:There is no question about it. \n\nOh, there's LOTS of question about it. People are becoming more aware each\nday that their rights are being threatened, so much so that NRA membership \nis growing at the rate of nearly 2,000 per *day*. We are slowly gaining\nour rightful voice, despite the biases, prejudices, and veiled motives of\nthe liberal media and anti-gun politicians. We will win.\n\n:Of those who vote, your cause is considered an abomination. No matter\n:how hard you try, public opinion is set against the RKBA. \n\nWhat do you base this on? Some highly-skewed poll conducted by NBC News?\nThe same group who faked GM pickup explosions just to make \"news\"? Right.\n\n:This is the end. By the finish of the Clinton administration, your\n:RKBA will be null and void. Tough titty.\n\nIt is true that we face even greater obstacles to our rights, betrayed by\nthose lying politicians who swear an oath to protect the Constitution \"from\nall enemies, both foreign and domestic.\" But the People will take only so\nmany lies and deceits.\n\n:You had better discover ways to make do without firearms. The number of\n:cases of firearms abuses has ruined your cause. There is nothing you\n:can do about it. Those who live by the sword shall die by it. \n\nThen the criminals who live by murder shall die by it. Honest, law-abiding\ncitizens need have no fear on that count. You, however, will evidently\ndie by (or at least in) ignorance. And the number of firearms self-defenses\nshall spell out our ultimate victory.\n\n:The press is against you, the public (the voting public) is against\n:you, the flow of history is against you ... this is it !\n\nThe flow of history was against the Founding Fathers, but they managed to \nsuccessfully form the first real free republic on the face of this planet,\na republic that has become the model for all others to follow. The press\nis against us, for its own selfish motivations. And the people will soon\nrealize the depths of deceit being spread by that media, and nullify its\nill-directed power. The People are with us.\n\n:Surrender your arms. Soon enough, officers will be around to collect\n:them. Resistance is useless. They will overwhelm you - one at a time.\n:Your neighbors will not help you. They will consider you more if an\n:immediate threat than the abstract 'criminal'. \n\nI shall never submit to an illegal, unConstitutional police state. I will\ntake my own vow to uphold the Constitution, and I shall defend it and my\ncountry against a tyrannical government gone mad, should it become\nnecessary.\n\n:Too fucking bad. You have gone the way of the KKK. Violent solutions\n:are passe'. Avoid situations which encourage criminals. Then you will\n:be as safe as possible. Such as it is ...\n\nI will not be your sacrificial sheep, and I shall not bow down to you or\nanyone else who seeks to control my life. Being an unarmed target is the\nSUREST way of encouraging criminals, and believe me, I shall avoid it as\nmuch as possible. Then I shall be as safe as possible. I will answer\nwith violence only when no other option exists, but I shall surely answer.\n\nMike Ruff\n\n\n", "\nSteve,\n It's nice that you find me laughable but I don't quite\nunderstand. Is it because you think my firearms clash with\nwhat I'm wearing, or that my NRA sticker isn't on straight?\nPlease state your judgement! \n I find it sad that people won't accept the responsibility\nto defend themselves. And I laugh with the same contempt you\nhave for me at the sheep who expect the government to protect\nthem.\n\n\nYou and your friends sound like a bunch of smug intellectuals.\n\n\nOh, I guess you are. I'm still waiting for you all-knowing\nacademic-likes to solve the worlds problems. Let us know when\nyou have the answers or punch lines as this case may be.\n\n\nSo it's not a \"Yankee\" thing?\nAre Canadians actually as uncivilized as we Americans?\n\n\nWell if it's anything like here it wouldn't matter if they\ndid; they wouldn't be able to use them.\n\n\nYou shouldn't waste your time watching TV, Steve. It will corrupt\nyour mind.\n\n\nDitto to you, Self Righteous One.\nLay your derogatory tirade on thick, Steve. Y'all can keep laughing and\nI'll keep feeling safe and secure.\n\n", "[MODERATOR: Nice summary, Keith, thanks.]\n\nI talked to the federal Dept. of Justice (DOJ, Ottawa) to try and\nclarify a bunch of things regarding changes to Canadian gun laws.\nI am posting here for informational purposes; questions to email,\nfollowup to t.p.g.\n\n1. It is still technically feasible (but almost impossible) to get\n a concealed carry permit in Canada. This is contrary to what I\n was told by a police officer.\n2. It is still legal to use lethal force (such as a firearm) to\n protect life, also contrary to what the officer told me. Guns\n must be stored locked up and unloaded, however.\n3. Regarding hi-capacity magazines, it is still not clear who will\n be exempt or how this will be managed. This is up to each province.\n The general idea is that exempt persons will receive a letter/form\n authorizing them to possess the high capacity magazines. \n Apparently, the authorization is to specify how many of these\n 'prohibited weapons' you will be allowed to possess. Dealers will\n be allowed to order high capacity mags for those allowed to possess\n them, but will not be allowed to stock them.\n4. High capacity magazines converted to comply with the new limits will\n not be considered prohibited weapons. Amendments to the regulations\n specify some possible methods to alter the magazines. Some \n manufacturers (Beretta) will be marketing reduced capacity magazines.\n (God knows how much they'll charge for these)\n\nThis covers most of what we discussed. I have typed this from memory,\ndo not take it as gospel. I am not a lawyer and I refuse to play one on TV.\n\n\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------", "\n\n\n\nI think a new organization would be a much better idea, as the NRA\ncarries as much undesireable baggage for me as the EFF and CPSR do\nfor others.\n\nAre any hot-shot, reputable organizers reading this message? If an\neffective group comes into existence, it can count on me signing up.", "\n\n\n\nBecause there are about 40 homicides total (i.e. using guns, knives,\ntire-irons, baseball bats, bare hands, etc...) in Switzerland\neach year and 850 homicides, total, in England. That's three\ntimes worse per capita in England than in Switzerland. Since\ndead is dead, it really doesn't matter that 60% of the Switz\nmurders involved a gun or that only 0.9% of the English murderers\ndo. ", "\n\nPlease take this thread out of \"tx.politics.talk.politics.guns\" which does\nnot exist. How about \"tx.politics,talk.politics.guns\" instead, eh?\n-- \nEd McGuire 1603 LBJ Freeway, Suite 780\nSystems Administrator/ Dallas, Texas 75234\n Member of Technical Staff 214/620-2100, FAX 214/484-8110\nIntellection, Inc. ", ": Frank Crary posted:\n: : Sure, but the difference in per-capita crime rates predates the\n: : gun control laws: The homicide rate in England was a tenth that\n: : of America, back when anyone in England could buy a gun without\n: : any paperwork at all.\n\n: Steve Manes asks:\n: > Got a citation for this?\n\n: Colin Greenwood from Scotland Yard did a study that showed that gun\n: control has had no effect on crime or murder rates in the UK. His book,\n: _Firearms_Controls_, has been published in London by Keegan Paul (name\n: may be misspelled).\n\nOthers dispute that, like Richard Hofstadter, ,\nand Newton and Zimring's . But,\nagain, statistics between too dissimilar cultures are difficult to\nquantify.\n\nI don't know how anyone can state that gun control could have NO\neffect on homicide rates. There were over 250 >accidental< handgun\nhomicides in America in 1990, most with licensed weapons. More\nAmerican children accidentally shot other children last year (15)\nthan all the handgun homicides in Great Britain. (Source: National\nSafety Council. Please... no dictionary arguments about RATES vs\nTOTAL NUMBERS, okay? They're offered for emphasis, not comparison).\n\nIf Mr. Greenwood believes that Brits are much too sober and\ncoordinated to make such mistakes I'd like to introduce him to my\nfriend, Amanda from Brighton. I used to have some pretty nice\ncrystal in my place until she moved in. I've gotten used to the\nsnide comments from guests about the clown motif on my rubber\nwine glasses.\n", "As quoted from <1993Apr14.184448.2331@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu> by jrm@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu:\n\nThat depends only on the profit of doing so. The differences\nin cost of production will determine local vs smuggle.\n\n\nThose of us who have actually made semi-autos (full-autos are easier)\nare getting quite a giggle out of this. I'd estimate that 5% of\nthe people at my high school couldn't do it. (I was one of the\nfew who failed shop.) People who have actually seen me do mechanical\nwork would probably say that 1% is more like it.\n\nStarting with even 90% of the population, you can be sure that\n\"enough\" people will be motivated.\n\n\nHow much is \"through the nose\"? After all, we know quite a bit\nabout how much a gun is worth to a criminal, so if that is dwarfed\nby the price demanded by the \"bad\" part of that 90%....\n\nThe relevant economic analysis has been made. The \"profit\" of\ngun crime is high enough that the price required to push criminals\nout of the market is high enough that everyone will be motivated.\nThat analysis ignored some \"improvements\" in the criminal gun\nmarket that could make them even cheaper. (They're not efficiently\nused now, but a \"loaner\" set up would drive the value still higher\nwithout affecting criminal use.)\n\n-andy", "\nSo? Look in the trunk some time. Heck - look at the dash. That\nfunny thing attached with a quick-release is a gun. The ones in the\ntrunk are \"better\". (I don't have numbers for Chicago, but\nPhiladelphia police cars carried multiple automatic weapons and\nthousands of rounds as standard issue in the 60s.)\n\n\nWhat is the nature of this disadvantage? If the cop can shoot, 6\nrounds will do the job against a single opponent (especially since the\ncop has guaranteed backup). If the \"gang member\" can shoot, the extra\nrounds don't help. The only time this difference can matter is if\nneither can shoot, and cops aren't supposed to be throwing lead around\nlike that.\n\nBTW - most cops carry multiple guns. You're not supposed to know\nabout the second, third, and so on.\n\n\nHow do \"we\" know that they were gang members and not undercover cops\nor even law-abiding menacing minorities. BTW - Why the sneer quotes?\n\nThey were actually practicing\n\nThen the extra rounds won't make any difference, so why is it an issue?\n\n-andy", "As quoted from <1993Apr14.184448.2331@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu> by jrm@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu:\n\n\nYou don't know much about modern automatic weapons, do you? Just about ANYBODY\nwith basic manufacturing skill can turn out HIGH QUALITY submachineguns. A \ncouple of high school shop teachers were recently arrested for building \nsubmachineguns in the school shop.\n\nI suggest that you go to the library and find a copy of \"Smallarms of the \nWorld\". Your entire premise is based on non-factual assumptions.\n", " \n Did I say that a child who unintentionally shoots someone is not negligent?\n NO. I hate to repeat myself Jim, but like I told Joe, I was not attempting\nin any way to justify gun control. You're right, any death is serious.\nTHAT was my point to Joe who said that \"anti-gunners\" try to convinve\nthe country that accidental gun deaths related to children are a serious\nproblem. I guess I assumed everyone thought that it was a problem.\nNo, I don't want to discuss match control. I don't equate a book of matches\nto a loaded 9 millimeter either. Don't confuse the issue. And please don't\nsay that tired old NRA line \"Guns don't kill people, people kill people\".\nSure, people can kill people without guns. But easy access to guns makes it\na lot more convenient. \"Guns don't kill people, People with easy access to\nguns kill people\".\n \n Jim, I'm just saying how it is. I'm not saying if that is a good thing\nor not. From the police who I have talked with who run some of these gun\nbuyback programs, I get the impression that they really think they are\nhaving an impact on the community. When I ask them if they have an evaluatory\ncomponent to the program, they say \"well no...\" So, in answer to your\nquestion, no, false hope is not the intent. I think the intent is to\nshow folks that police are attempting to do something to curb interpersonal\ngun violence whether its effective or not. Look, if you can't measure\nthe impact of these programs using some sort of pre-test and post-test\nevaluation, what is the point? It must be symbolic in nature. The police are\nessentially saying \"look, if you have a gun lying around and you don't\nwant it, we'll give you $50 for it...because we care about the community\".\nIf you, I and Joe could think of a way to measure the effectiveness or\nineffectiveness of these programs we could become rich and famous.\n ", "\nThis is where Freeman's love of accuracy becomes really ridiculous.\n\n[his point was that it is possible under certain circumstances for many people\nto carry concealed in Illinois]\nI did read the law before I commented on it. Judging from replies I received\nabout my \"Semantics on t.p.g\" post many (if not most) people here on t.p.g\nassume that when CCW laws are asked about the person is asking about the\npossibility of an ordinary citizen getting one. It would also follow that said\nperson would get the CCW to carry on his/her person away from their home and/or\nbusiness.\n\n\n\n\nMaybe Freeman did prove his point but his point is not relevant. The thing\nthat most people seem to care about when they ask questions about carrying\na concealed weapon is whether or not they can carry it concealed on their\nperson when they are out on the street somewhere. I'm sure that not many\npeople are concerned with whether or not they can carry concealed at home.\nSpeaking as someone who lives in Illinois (the only place where the above\nquoted law is relevant :-)) I know that it is legal to own a handgun here (I\nam not taking into account city ordinances). I could care less about whether\nor not I can carry concealed at home. I only care about the fact that\nI can't carry concealed in the place where it really counts- out on the street.\nFreeman loves to be accurate and I can understand that (especially not) but he\nseems to be forgetting that accurate facts don't always replace common sense.\nI am not going to followup to this thread anymore because I believe that it is\nuseless to argue these points anymore. The only thing that is happening now\nis that Freeman and I are \"running around in circles\" trying to prove each\nother wrong and I do not have the time to be playing games anymore. Of course\nnow Freeman will attack me about my use of common sense in some of my earlier\nposts but what can I do. My only advice for Freeman - quit being so picky\nabout accuracy sometimes and use your common sense; it really does work some-\ntimes.", "-- \n73, Tom\n================================================================================\nTom Wagner, Audio Visual Technician. Malaspina College Nanaimo British Columbia\n(604)753-3245, Loc 2230 Fax:755-8742 Callsign:VE7GDA Weapon:.45 Kentucky Rifle\nSnail mail to: Site Q4, C2. RR#4, Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada, V9R 5X9 ", " Or, how about the Clint Eastwood line in \"Pink Cadillac\" -\n \"I believe in gun control. If there's a gun around, I wanna be\n the one controlling it.\"", "\n\nThey sure make it sound like that.\n\n\nEven a simpleton knows a baseball bat is considered a deadly weapon. \nIf one cannot run away (e.g. old, infirm, even middle-aged if the\nassailant is younger), a handgun is the most effective means of\ndefense. You won't even have to fire a shot 98% of the time.\n\n\nAny real streetfighter (and there are LOTS of them), with or without a\nknife, will kick the living sh** out of most people \"trained in\nunarmed self defense\". For the majority of people, a gun is the most\neffective form of self defense.", "This is exactly what I have heard before. If you were to fade away and\nnobody saw you what kind of evidence would they be able to get to catch you\n(this is assuming that you either collected your brass or had a revolver)?\n\n\nGuess it's time to take a trip to the library and look at the Illinois statutes\nagain :-) Just for the record folks I'm just asking this because I'm curious.\nI'm just trying to find out from people who have read more on stuff like this.\n", "According to WNCI 97.9 FM radio this morning, Dayton, Ohio is operating a\ngun \"buy back\". They are giving $50 for every functional gun turned in.\nThey ran out of money in one day, and are now passing out $50 vouchers of\nsome sort. They are looking for more funds to keep operating. Another\nmedia-event brought to you by HCI.\n\nIs there something similar pro-gun people can do ? For example, pay $100\nto anyone who lawfully protects their life with a firearm ? Sounds a bit\ntacky, but hey, whatever works.", "\nWell, let me see if I can explain it. It's similar to collecting coins,\nor stamps, or campaign buttons, or coke bottles, or juke boxes, or model\ntrains, or just about anything else that is collected (and just about\neverything is collected). In all cases, you might consider it something\nof an aberration; I mean, what purpose does it serve? Not much really;\nit's just a hobby. The collector yearns for diversity (not much use in\nhaving TWO of the same thing, except for trading/selling it), historical\nsignificance (this was the thingy used by so-and-so), technical significance\n(this is the only one that does such-and-such like this; this is the first\none to do it this way), rarity, and so on.\n\nSome people use their collections, other people do not. As you state, you\nuse your collection. In one sense, this diminishes the value of your\ncollection as the items suffer wear and exposure. In another sense, it\ncan enhance your own enjoyment of your collection. Some people collect\nfirearms that they do not use; other people use some or all of the firearms\nthey collect. It's just personal preference.\n\nOops, 'personal preference' ... I guess we're not supposed to have that any\nmore, are we?", "I have NEVER spoken for a ban against guns in America !\nWhat I've said is that there seems to be to MANY of them, and especially\nto many in wrong hands....\n\nNow IF you would like to reduce the number, how would you do it without affecting\ngood/responcible gun owners ??\n\n\nI DO believe in a persons freedom.\nWhat I don't believe is that you can have it all and don't pay for it.\n\nMOST europeans believe in a society of individuals, and that you HAVE\nto give 'a little' to make that society work.\n\nCars and guns should really not be mixed, I just tried to make a point.\nLike America, Norway has some spaces you have to cross to get from a to b,\nso a car is essential in most parts....\n\nGuns on the other hand are not essential in Norway, so we don't \nargue that IF we 'banned' guns we HAVE to ban cars.....\n\n\nEVERYONE who believe that Hitler and WW2 could be avoided if there were\nmore guns in Germany in the 30's: PLEASE read some HISTORY!\n\n\nIs this discussion about\n\n1. Banning weapons for ALL Americans\n or\n2. Making it harder for criminals to get one ??\n\n\n\nChange of name.......\nWrote that one after reading the first postings about the Waco 'incident'.\nI still think there are 'some' posters should move their post to alt.conspiracy\nor make a new newsgroup.\n(If you read the first postings after the Waco fire you should see who I mean......)\n\nDid the BATF get the warrant for a gun search only or was there other reasons.\n(Child abuse for instance)\n\nDoesn't the people reading this newsgroup have access to the clari.news.* hierarcy ??\n(Some seems rather mis/unInformed)\n\n(Or is the clari.news.* hierarcy ruled and censored by the corrupt facist goverment??)\n\n", "\n\nThere are, but not any that would help Texans: In many states,\nsuch laws have been found to violate the state constitution. \nBut the federal Second Amendment does not apply directly to the\nstates. It was written to limit the federal government only. \nThe Fourteenth Amendment was written to extend the restrictions\nof the Bill of Rights to the state level. However, the exact\nwording of the Fourteenth Amendment is very vague. The Supreme\nCourt has been dancing around the issue without facing it\ndirectly for over 100 years. In practice, the Bill of Right\n(indirectly applies through the Fourteenth) applies to the\nstate governments only if the Supreme Court has ruled that \nparticular provision. The Court has made no such rulings on\nthe Second Amendment.", "\nWhen will you people realize that our right to keep and bear isn't\nprimarily intended to be for protecting against criminals and beasties\nin the wild? Granted, it is a big part, but we also need military style\nweapons so we can fight off the government when they come to our door.\nWhen ten agents come to my door, it would be nice to be able to shoot\nall of them for 'not upholding the constitution to the best of their\nability'. It will be a lot harder doing that with the puny weapons you\nlisted above.\n\nPlease read the Federalist papers for all clarification on RKBA. These\ndocuments have cleared up plenty of misnomers that friends of mine have\nhad.\n\n\n\n\n", "\nActually, they won't. What they'll tell you is that if you add up the\nnumber of suicides, murders of one drug dealer by another, legit\nself-defenses of a battered spouse, and so on, you'll end up with a\nnumber that is much larger than the number of self-defense killings\nagainst strangers committed in the bedroom. (BTW - they didn't\nhonestly count the latter either, but let's not quibble.) They\ntry to claim that comparison is between the costs of self-defense\nand the benefits, but they're wrong.\n\nThis comparison doesn't measure the costs of self-defense and it\ndoesn't measure the benefits either. For example, the goal is not to\nkill the attacker, whatever your relationship to him, but to stop him.\nWhile the number of killings may be proportional to the number of\nstops, it isn't equal.\n\nAnyone who confuses that comparison with an honest evaluation\nis either lying or....\n\n-andy", "\nI've been a member of the NRA for several years and recently \"joined\"\nHCI. I wanted to see what they were up to and paid the minimum ($15)\nto get a membership. I also sent the NRA another $120.\n", "\n.\n.\n. \n \nAre you sure about this? I'm currently looking at a copy of last \nThursday's SF Chronicle and there is the typical one column Traders\nad on page C7 in the Sports section. Not only that, but there is\na part in the middle which rather prominently says \"WANTED: We pay\ncash for assault rifles and pistols.\". Granted, I haven't seen today's\npaper yet. But I'd be surprised if there wasn't a Traders ad in it.\nIt's probably worth it to write to the Chronicle (and other papers)\nanyway, because all their anti-gun editorials are disgusting.\n\nBy the way, let me put in a plug for Traders. I have shopped all\nover the SF Bay Area and I have never seen another store with lower\nprices. And their selection is amazing.\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\nLee Gaucher | My opinions.\ngaucher@sam.cchem.berkeley.edu | No one else's.", " ^^^^^\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nSorry, but I really can't figure out what you're trying to say, above.\n\n\nNot exactly:\n\n\"An unconstitutional act is not law; it confers no rights; it imposes\n no duties; affords no protection; it creates no office; it is in legal\n contemplation, as inoperative as though it had never been passed.\"\n Norton vs. Shelby County, 118 US 425 p.442\n\n\"The general rule is that an unconstitutional statute, though having the\n form and name of law, is in reality no law, but is wholly void, and\n ineffective for any purpose; since unconstitutionality dates from the\n time of it's enactment, and not merely from the date of the decision so\n branding it.\"\n\n\"No on is bound to obey an uncontitutional law, and no courts are\n bound to enforce it.\"\n 16 Am Jur 2d, Sec 177\n late 2d, Sec 256\n\n\nAutomatic weapons? No. The Supreme Court has never heard such a case.\n-- ", "I HATE long postings, but this turned out to be rather lengthy....\n\n\nOverall Crime rate:\nIt fell....just like that...\n\nAcquiring weapons in Norway:\nYou can buy (almost) all kinds of weapons in Norway, BUT you must have a \npermit, and a good reason to get the permit....\nIf I would like to have a handgun, i would have to get an gun-licence from \nthe police and to be a member of a gun-club.\nThe police would check my criminal records for any SERIOUS crimes and/or\nrecords of SERIOUS mental diseases.\nNow, if a got my licence, I would have to be an active member of the gun\n-club for 6 months BEFORE I could collect my gun.\nIt's a little like getting a drivers licence isn't it ???\nYou have to prove that you CAN drive before you are allowed to...\n\nUse of guns in crimes (in Norway):\nSome crimes are commited with guns that have been in the owners 'arms'\nfor a long time, but these are rather the exeption.\nMost criminals accuire guns to use them in crimes, and mostly short \ntime befor the crime.\n\nUse of knives:\nIt IS allowed to cary knifes in public, but not in your belt or 'open'.\nYou (Americans) think it's ok to have a gun, but not to carry it open\nin public -rigth ??\n\nScandinavians ARE 'aggressive':\nWe northeners are not as hot-livered as southeners, but when we decide\nto take action we DO.\nAsk ANY historian or millitary with an knowledge of europe....\n(Or ask any German who served in Norway in WW2.....)\n\nIndividual vs masses:\nYes the individual is more important than the masses, but only to some\nextent....\nYour criminal laws are to protect the individuals who makes the masses ??\nWhat happens when the rigths of some individuals affects the rights of \nall the others ??\n\n\nThe issue:\nI believe the issue is GUNS, and gun-legislation.\nWe shouldn't mix weapons and items that can serve as one....\nIF i lived in Amerika I would probably have a gun to defend myselfe in HOME.\nBut should it have to be like that ??\nDo you think it's wise to sell guns like candy (some states do...) ??\nIf you believe it's smart/neccacery to have drivers-licence WHY do you think\nit should be free to buy guns ??\n\nDisclaim-her:\nI'm not a pacifist or anti gun. \nI would defend my home, loved ones and country, but I don't view guns as\nneccities or toys.\nI HAVE done army service, and HAVE used a variaty of weapons, but wouldn't\nwant to have one for self defence or because they 'feel good'....\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\tThis is not a .signature.\n\tIt's marly a computergenerated text to waste bandwith\n\tand to bring down the evil Internet.\n", "Here is a letter I sent to David Skaggs, (Dem, CO). Before anybody says\nsomething, yes the letter is a bit \"sharp\" in tone. I have been writting\nreasonable and polite letters to him for years, and all I get in return\nin the HCI party line. Since he already is NRA F rated, I don't think that\nupsetting him will harm the cause. Sorry if you disagree, but recent events\nin Texas REALLY have me pissed.\n\n-------------------\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tApril 20, 1993\nRepresentative Skaggs,\n\nRecently I wrote to you regarding my outrage over the tactics used by the\nBureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms, (BATF), in Texas. In your response\nyou stated that \"Events in Texas underscore the need for stricter gun control\nlegislation to keep guns out of the hand of groups such as the Branch Davidians.\nMy question to you is, \"what grounds would you use to deny them access to \nfirearms?\" Best I can tell this statement underscores your apparent total\nignorance of the subject, and highlights your personal bias against firearms.\nI say this because there are only two possible paths of \"gun control\" which you\ncould have been referencing.\n\nEither:\n1) You were talking about their access to semi-automatics firearms. In this\ncase I should point out that semi-automatic firearms are legal in most areas of\nthis Country, including Texas and Colorado. In addition the members of the\n\"cult\" have never been convicted of any crimes which would deny them the ability\nto purchase these weapons. So under what grounds would you deny them these\nguns? Their religion? The fact they they live in a large group alone by\nthemselves? Because you consider them to be a cult? Maybe I consider your\nChurch to be a cult!\n\nThis line of reasoning by you borders on the concept of \"thought crimes.\" You\nand Pat Robertson should really get along.\n\n2) You were referring to the ALLEGED FULLY automatic weapons possessed by the\n\"cult.\" Under current US law, FULLY automatic weapons have been covered by\nsome of the strictest gun control laws in this Nation. So if David Koresh\nillegally possessed them, he would have had to circumvent some of the strictest\nlaws we have. How will more laws help? By the way, it has been reported that\nDavid Koresh possessed a Federal Firearms License which would have permitted \nhim to possess FULLY automatic weapons. If true, the 85 people who perished\nMonday in the fire, died so that the Federal government could collect a couple\nhundred dollars in taxes on guns David Koresh didn't declare.\n\nI have heard claims that they were \"stockpiling weapons.\" Yet considering the\nnumber of people in the complex, even 200+ weapons would not have been out of\nline with gun ownership statistics for all of Texas. What's next? A siege of\nDallas/Ft Worth for alleged \"stockpiling?\"\n\nFace it David Skaggs, You have voted for virtually EVERY gun control law that\nhas passed through Congress, yet you claim that you are only for \"reasonable\"\nrestrictions. Bull****! Handgun Control Inc. is struggling to maintain\n250,000 PAID members, while the NRA has just exceeded 3,000,000 members. They\nare still growing at a rate of 2,000 new members per day. Driving around YOUR\ndistrict I see NRA stickers every day. In eight plus years of living here I\nhave only seen ONE HCI bumper sticker. When you vote for your \"reasonable\"\ngun control laws, are you really representing your district, or are you\nrepresenting Sarah Bradys'?\n\n\n\t\t\t\t\tThank You,\n\n\n\n\n\t\t\t\t\tWilliam J. Vojak\n\n\n\n\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tApril 20, 1993\nRepresentative Skaggs,\n\nRecently I wrote to you regarding my outrage over the tactics used by the\nBureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms, (BATF), in Texas. In your response\nyou stated that \"Events in Texas underscore the need for stricter gun control\nlegislation to keep guns out of the hand of groups such as the Branch Davidians.\nMy question to you is, \"what grounds would you use to deny them access to \nfirearms?\" Best I can tell this statement underscores your apparent total\nignorance of the subject, and highlights your personal bias against firearms.\nI say this because there are only two possible paths of \"gun control\" which you\ncould have been referencing.\n\nEither:\n1) You were talking about their access to semi-automatics firearms. In this\ncase I should point out that semi-automatic firearms are legal in most areas of\nthis Country, including Texas and Colorado. In addition the members of the\n\"cult\" have never been convicted of any crimes which would deny them the ability\nto purchase these weapons. So under what grounds would you deny them these\nguns? Their religion? The fact they they live in a large group alone by\nthemselves? Because you consider them to be a cult? Maybe I consider your\nChurch to be a cult!\n\nThis line of reasoning by you borders on the concept of \"thought crimes.\" You\nand Pat Robertson should really get along.\n\n2) You were referring to the ALLEGED FULLY automatic weapons possessed by the\n\"cult.\" Under current US law, FULLY automatic weapons have been covered by\nsome of the strictest gun control laws in this Nation. So if David Koresh\nillegally possessed them, he would have had to circumvent some of the strictest\nlaws we have. How will more laws help? By the way, it has been reported that\nDavid Koresh possessed a Federal Firearms License which would have permitted \nhim to possess FULLY automatic weapons. If true, the 85 people who perished\nMonday in the fire, died so that the Federal government could collect a couple\nhundred dollars in taxes on guns David Koresh didn't declare.\n\nI have heard claims that they were \"stockpiling weapons.\" Yet considering the\nnumber of people in the complex, even 200+ weapons would not have been out of\nline with gun ownership statistics for all of Texas. What's next? A siege of\nDallas/Ft Worth for alleged \"stockpiling?\"\n\nFace it David Skaggs, You have voted for virtually EVERY gun control law that\nhas passed through Congress, yet you claim that you are only for \"reasonable\"\nrestrictions. Bull****! Handgun Control Inc. is struggling to maintain\n250,000 PAID members, while the NRA has just exceeded 3,000,000 members. They\nare still growing at a rate of 2,000 new members per day. Driving around YOUR\ndistrict I see NRA stickers every day. In eight plus years of living here I\nhave only seen ONE HCI bumper sticker. When you vote for your \"reasonable\"\ngun control laws, are you really representing your district, or are you\nrepresenting Sarah Bradys'?\n\n\n\t\t\t\t\tThank You,\n\t\t\t\t\tWilliam J. Vojak\n\n---------------------------\n\n Bill Vojak\n vojak@icebucket.stortek.com\n\t\t\t\tNRA, ILA,\n Colorado Firearms Coalition\n------------------------------------------------------------\nThe CBS Nightly Propaganda With Dan Rather. (RATHER NOT!)\nThe CBS Nightly Propaganda With Dan Rather. (RATHER BIASED!)", " \n\n...in other words faith in a .357 is far stronger than faith in a \nGod providing a miracle for his followers. Interesting. Now, if \nDavid Korresh was God, why couldn't he use lightning instead of \nsemi-automatic rifles? It seems even he didn't trust in himself.\n\nCheers,\nKent", "\n Any projectile traveling at or near typical bullet speeds is potentially\nlethal. Even blanks [which have no projectile] can cause death if the\nmuzzle is in close proximity to the victim. I have heard of rubber or\nplastic bullets being used effectively during riot situations [where the\nintent is crowd control, rather than close range self defense]; i've also\nseen reports of deaths caused by them [the British in Northern Ireland].\n Use of a firearm for self defense is appropriate and lawful only in the\ngravest of situations; at that point, i consider deadly [lethal] force to \nbe a proper reaction [and so does the law]. \n Furthermore, use of less effective [but still potentially lethal] force\nhas its own set of problems. It may well take more applications of the\nless effective force to stop the incident; this places all parties at some\nrisk; the victim because the attack has not stopped, and the assailent \nsince the aggregate damage done by the multiple applications may well be\nmore deadly.\n", "\nwhen does carrying a tool classify someone as a rambo. so all the\npioneers that came west were rambo's? adrienne!!! :-)\n\n\nwould your tune change if you were one of the \"dozen or two bear attacks\"?\nbelieve me, when you need a firearm, you NEED a firearm.\n\n\nplease cite your references. i'll let others (please note followup)\ncite valid references to show you that this is an untruth.\n\n\nwell, you might as well go naked. forget the matches, backpack, sleeping\nbag and all the rest that's is a modern convenience. a firearm is just\na tool. as some people won't carry gaiters, some people do. firearms\nshould be in the same category. it should be a personal choice.\n\nand your factoid about shooting victims in the ER. count how many come in\ndue to automobile accidents and automobile crimes. maybe we should outlaw\ncars.\n", "friends\n\nThat was what I got from your phrasing, too. Well, then, were they (the ones \nyou saw) black? You don't deny seem to deny it, either.\n\nby\n\nThat is the recommended way to practice with a CCW, too. Aim alone is no good \nfor defense, if you can't get the gun rapidly.\n\n\nWhat, outside of prejudice, would have made it obvious?\n\nlive\nit\n\nYes, prejudice is more subtle in the north, isn't it?\n\nsaid.\n\nMore than enough. I understand you completely.\n\n\nJim\n--\njmd@handheld.com", null ], "marker": { "opacity": 0.5, "size": 5 }, "mode": "markers+text", "name": "11_the_of_gun", "text": [ "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", 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"dtype": "f4" } }, { "hoverinfo": "text", "hovertext": [ "Hi!\n\nI am looking for the email address of the author to\n\"A Generic Solution to Polygon Clipping\", \nCommunication of the ACM, July 1992, Vol. 35, No. 7. \nI got information about the author as follows\n\tMr. Bala R. Vatti\n\tLCEC, 65 River Road, Hudson, N.H. 03051\n\temail: vatti@waynar.lcec.lockheed\nI want to get some related and detailed papers about the\nsame topic from the author. But I failed to send my email \nto the address. Any information is appreciated.\n\nThank you very much.\n\nBest regards.", "This is the third and final call for votes for the creation of the\nnewsgroup misc.health.diabetes. A mass acknowledgement of valid votes\nreceived as of April 19th 14:00 GMT appears at the end of this\nposting. Please check the list to be sure that your vote has been\nregistered. Read the instructions for voting carefully and follow\nthem precisely to be certain that you place a proper vote.\n \nInstructions for voting:\n \nTo place a vote FOR the creation of misc.health.diabetes, send an\nemail message to yes@sun6850.nrl.navy.mil\n \nTo place a vote AGAINST creation of misc.health.diabetes, send an\nemail message to no@sun6850.nrl.navy.mil\n \nThe contents of the message should contain the line \"I vote\nfor/against misc.health.diabetes as proposed\". Email messages sent to\nthe above addresses must constitute unambiguous and unconditional\nvotes for/against newsgroup creation as proposed. Conditional votes\nwill not be accepted. Only votes emailed to the above addresses will\nbe counted; mailed replies to this posting will be returned. In the\nevent that more than one vote is placed by an individual, only the\nmost recent vote will be counted.\n \nVoting will continue until 23:59 GMT, 29 Apr 93.\nVotes will not be accepted after this date.\n \nAny administrative inquiries pertaining to this CFV may be made by\nemail to swkirch@sun6850.nrl.navy.mil\n \nThe proposed charter appears below.\n \n--------------------------\n \nCharter: \n \nmisc.health.diabetes unmoderated\n \n1. The purpose of misc.health.diabetes is to provide a forum for the\ndiscussion of issues pertaining to diabetes management, i.e.: diet,\nactivities, medicine schedules, blood glucose control, exercise,\nmedical breakthroughs, etc. This group addresses the issues of\nmanagement of both Type I (insulin dependent) and Type II (non-insulin\ndependent) diabetes. Both technical discussions and general support\ndiscussions relevant to diabetes are welcome.\n \n2. Postings to misc.heath.diabetes are intended to be for discussion\npurposes only, and are in no way to be construed as medical advice.\nDiabetes is a serious medical condition requiring direct supervision\nby a primary health care physician. \n \n-----(end of charter)-----\n \nThe following individuals have sent in valid votes:\n \n9781BMU@VMS.CSD.MU.EDU Bill Satterlee\na2wj@loki.cc.pdx.edu Jim Williams\nac534@freenet.carleton.ca Colin Henein\nad@cat.de Axel Dunkel\nal198723@academ07.mty.itesm.mx Jesus Eugenio S nchez Pe~a\nanugula@badlands.NoDak.edu RamaKrishna Reddy Anugula\napps@sneaks.Kodak.com Robert W. Apps\narperd00@mik.uky.edu alicia r perdue\nbaind@gov.on.ca Dave Bain\nbalamut@morris.hac.com Morris Balamut\nbch@Juliet.Caltech.Edu\nBGAINES@ollamh.ucd.ie Brian Gaines\nBjorn.B.Larsen@delab.sintef.no\nbobw@hpsadwc.sad.hp.com Bob Waltenspiel\nbruce@uxb.liverpool.ac.uk bruce\nbspencer@binkley.cs.mcgill.ca Brian SPENCER\ncline@usceast.cs.scarolina.edu Ernest A. Cline\ncoleman@twin.twinsun.com Mike Coleman\ncompass-da.com!tomd@compass-da.com Thomas Donnelly\ncsc@coast.ucsd.edu Charles Coughran\ncurtech!sbs@unh.edu Stephanie Bradley-Swift\ndebrum#m#_brenda@msgate.corp.apple.com DeBrum, Brenda\ndlb@fanny.wash.inmet.com David Barton\ndlg1@midway.uchicago.edu deborah lynn gillaspie\ndougb@comm.mot.com Douglas Bank\ned@titipu.resun.com Edward Reid\nedmoore@hpvclc.vcd.hp.com Ed Moore\nejo@kaja.gi.alaska.edu Eric J. Olson\nemcguire@intellection.com Ed McGuire\newc@hplb.hpl.hp.com Enrico Coiera\nfeathr::bluejay@ampakz.enet.dec.com\nfranklig@GAS.uug.Arizona.EDU Gregory C Franklin \nFSSPR@acad3.alaska.edu Hardcore Alaskan\ngabe@angus.mi.org Gabe Helou\ngasp@medg.lcs.mit.edu Isaac Kohane\ngasp@medg.lcs.mit.edu Isaac Kohane\nGeir.Millstein@TF.tele.no\nggurman@cory.Berkeley.EDU Gail Gurman\nggw@wolves.Durham.NC.US Gregory G. Woodbury\ngreenlaw@oasys.dt.navy.mil Leila Thomas\ngrm+@andrew.cmu.edu Gretchen Miller\nhalderc@cs.rpi.edu\nHANDELAP%DUVM.BITNET@pucc.Princeton.EDU Phil Handel\nhansenr@ohsu.EDU\nhc@Nyongwa.cam.org hc\nheddings@chrisco.nrl.navy.mil Hubert Heddings\nherbison@lassie.ucx.lkg.dec.com B.J.\nhmpetro@mosaic.uncc.edu Herbert M Petro\nHOSCH2263@iscsvax.uni.edu\nhrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu Herman Rubin\nHUDSOIB@AUDUCADM.DUC.AUBURN.EDU Ingrid B. Hudson\nhuff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU Edward J. Huff\nhuffman@ingres.com Gary Huffman\nHUYNH_1@ESTD.NRL.NAVY.MIL Minh Huynh\nishbeld@cix.compulink.co.uk Ishbel Donkin\nJames.Langdell@Eng.Sun.COM James Langdell\njamyers@netcom.com John A. Myers\njc@crosfield.co.uk jerry cullingford\njesup@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com Randell Jesup\njjmorris@gandalf.rutgers.edu Joyce Morris\njoep@dap.csiro.au Joe Petranovic\nJohn.Burton@acenet.auburn.edu John E. Burton Jr.\njohncha@comm.mot.com\nJORGENSONKE@CC.UVCC.EDU\njpsum00@mik.uky.edu joey p sum\nJTM@ucsfvm.ucsf.edu John Maynard\njulien@skcla.monsanto.com\nkaminski@netcom.com Peter Kaminski\nkerry@citr.uq.oz.au Kerry Raymond\nkieran@world.std.com Aaron L Dickey\nknauer@cs.uiuc.edu Rob Knauerhase\nkolar@spot.Colorado.EDU Jennifer Lynn Kolar\nkriguer@tcs.com Marc Kriguer\nlau@ai.sri.com Stephen Lau\nlee@hal.com Lee Boylan\nlmt6@po.cwru.edu\nlunie@Lehigh.EDU\nlusgr@chili.CC.Lehigh.EDU Stephen G. Roseman\nM.Beamish@ins.gu.edu.au Marilyn Beamish\nM.Rich@ens.gu.edu.au Maurice H. Rich.\nmaas@cdfsga.fnal.gov Peter Maas\nmacridis_g@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz Gerry Macridis\nmarkv@hpvcivm.vcd.hp.com Mark Vanderford\nMASCHLER@vms.huji.ac.il\nmcb@net.bio.net Michael C. Berch\nmcday@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu\nmcookson@flute.calpoly.edu\nmfc@isr.harvard.edu Mauricio F Contreras\nmg@wpi.edu Martha Gunnarson\nmhollowa@libserv1.ic.sunysb.edu Michael Holloway\nmisha@abacus.concordia.ca MISHA GLOUBERMAN \nmjb@cs.brown.edu Manish Butte\nMOFLNGAN@vax1.tcd.ie\nmuir@idiom.berkeley.ca.us David Muir Sharnoff\nNancy.Block@Eng.Sun.COM Nancy Block\nndallen@r-node.hub.org Nigel Allen\nnlr@B31.nei.nih.gov Rohrer, Nathan\nowens@cookiemonster.cc.buffalo.edu Bill Owens\npams@hpfcmp.fc.hp.com Pam Sullivan\npapresco@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca Paul Prescod\npaslowp@cs.rpi.edu\npillinc@gov.on.ca Christopher Pilling\npkane@cisco.com Peter Kane\npopelka@odysseus.uchicago.edu Glenn Popelka\npulkka@cs.washington.edu Aaron Pulkka\npwatkins@med.unc.edu Pat Watkins\nrbnsn@mosaic.shearson.com Ken Robinson\nrick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu Richard H. Miller\nrobyn@media.mit.edu Robyn Kozierok\nrolf@green.mathematik.uni-stuttgart.de Rolf Schreiber\nsageman@cup.portal.com\nsasjcs@unx.sas.com Joan Stout\nSCOTTJOR@delphi.com\nscrl@hplb.hpl.hp.com\nscs@vectis.demon.co.uk Stuart C. Squibb\nshan@techops.cray.com Sharan Kalwani\nsharen@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com Sharen A. Rund\nshazam@unh.edu Matthew T Thompson\nshipman@csab.larc.nasa.gov Floyd S. Shipman\nshoppa@ERIN.CALTECH.EDU Tim Shoppa\nslillie@cs1.bradley.edu Susan Lillie\nsteveo@world.std.com Steven W Orr\nsurendar@ivy.WPI.EDU Surendar Chandra\nswkirch@sun6850.nrl.navy.mil Steven Kirchoefer\nS_FAGAN@twu.edu\nTARYN@ARIZVM1.ccit.arizona.edu Taryn L. Westergaard\nThomas.E.Taylor@gagme.chi.il.us Thomas E Taylor\ntima@CFSMO.Honeywell.COM Timothy D Aanerud\ntsamuel%gollum@relay.nswc.navy.mil Tony Samuel\nU45301@UICVM.UIC.EDU M. Jacobs \nvstern@gte.com Vanessa Stern\nwahlgren@haida.van.wti.com James Wahlgren\nwaterfal@pyrsea.sea.pyramid.com Douglas Waterfall\nweineja1@teomail.jhuapl.edu\nwgrant@informix.com William Grant\nYEAGER@mscf.med.upenn.edu\nyozzo@watson.ibm.com Ralph E. Yozzo\nZ919016@beach.utmb.edu Molly Hamilton", "\n\n INTENSIVE JAPANESE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURGH THIS SUMMER\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\n\nThe University of Pittsburgh is offering two intensive Japanese language\ncourses this summer. Both courses, Intensive Elementary Japanese and \nIntensive Intermediate Japanese, are ten week, ten credit courses \neach equivalent to one full year of Japanese language study. They begin \nJune 7 and end August 13. The courses meet five days per week, five hours \nper day. There is a flat rate tuition charge of $1600 per course. \nFellowships available for science and engineering students. Contact \nSteven Brener, Program Manager of the Japanese Science and Technology\nManagement Program, at the University of Pittsburgh at the number or\naddress below. \nALL INTERESTED INDIVIDUALS ARE ENCOURAGED TO APPLY, THIS IS NOT LIMITED TO \nUNIVERSITY STUDENTS.\n\n\n\n \n\n#######################################################################\n################# New Program Announcement ########################\n#######################################################################\n\n\n JAPANESE SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY MANAGEMENT PROGRAM\n\nThe Japanese Science and Technology Management Program (JSTMP) is a new\nprogram jointly developed by the University of Pittsbugh and Carnegie Mellon \nUniversity. Students and professionals in the engineering and scientific \ncommunitites are encouraged to apply for classes commencing in June 1993 and \nJanuary 1994.\n\n\nPROGRAM OBJECTIVES\nThe program intends to promote technology transfer between Japan and the \nUnited States. It is also designed to let scientists, engineers, and managers\nexperience how the Japanese proceed with technological development. This is \nfacilitated by extended internships in Japanese research facilities and\nlaboratories that provide participants with the opportunity to develop\nlong-term professional relationships with their Japanese counterparts.\n\n\nPROGRAM DESIGN\nTo fulfill the objectives of the program, participants will be required to \ndevelop advanced language capability and a deep understanding of Japan and\nits culture. Correspondingly, JSTMP consists of three major components:\n\n1. TRAINING IN THE JAPANESE LANGUAGE\nSeveral Japanese language courses will be offered, including intensive courses\ndesigned to expedite language preparation for scientists and engineers in a\nrelatively short time.\n\n2. EDUCATION IN JAPANESE BUSINESS AND SOCIAL CULTURE\nA particular enphasis is placed on attaining a deep understanding of the\ncultural and educational basis of Japanese management approaches in \nmanufacturing and information technology. Courses will be available in a \nvariety of departments throughout both universities including Anthropology,\nSociology, History, and Political Science. Moreover, seminars and colloquiums\nwill be conducted. Further, a field trip to Japanese manufacturing or \nresearch facilities in the United States will be scheduled.\n\n\n3. AN INTERNSHIP OR A STUDY MISSION IN JAPAN\nUpon completion of their language and cultural training at PITT and CMU, \nparticipants will have the opportunity to go to Japan and observe,\nand participate in the management of technology. Internships in Japan\nwill generally run for one year; however, shorter ones are possible.\n\n\nFELLOWSHIPS COVERING TUITION FOR LANGUAGE AND CULTURE COURSES, AS WELL AS\nSTIPENDS FOR LIVING EXPENSES ARE AVAILABLE.\n\n FOR MORE INFORMATION AND APPLICATION MATERIALS CONTACT\n\nSTEVEN BRENER\t\t\t\tSUSIE BROWN\nJSTMP\t\t\t\t\tCarnegie Mellon University, GSIA\nUniversity of Pittsburgh\t\tPittsburgh, PA 15213-3890\n4E25 Forbes Quadrangle\t\t\tTelephone: (412) 268-7806\nPittsburgh, PA 15260\t\t\tFAX:\t (412) 268-8163\nTelephone: (412) 648-7414\t\t\nFAX: (412) 648-2199\t\t\n\n############################################################################\n############################################################################ \n\n\nInterested individuals, companies and institutions should respond by phone or\nmail. Please do not inquire via e-mail.\nPlease note that this is directed at grads and professionals, however, advanced\nundergrads will be considered. Further, funding is resticted to US citizens\nand permanent residents of the US.", "Would the person who is running the e-mail list for KANSAS CITY Royals please\ne-mail details regarding mailing list. If you on the list and know the info\nplease send me info as well.\n\nPlease e-mail as I don't have time always to read this group\n\nJohn", "Hey, I can't send mail to you, so....\n\nCould you please resend me your address? I lost it (for H. in\nMoscow)", "Hi Netters!\n\nI am looking for the list of universities in Austrailia, which has electronics department. \nI am considering to spend a year for research in Austrailia about communication area.ýé I am interested in Mobile communication areas and spread spectrum communications etc. \nBut I don't have any information about Austrailian Universities.\nCan anybody recommend a good university in coûßmmunic÷³ation area?\nAny comments will be welcomed!\n\nBye.", "jsn104 is jeremy scott noonan\n", "I would like to hear from people who are thinking of going to the Urbana 93\nconference in December this year. I have recently received info from IFES\n(International Fellowship of Evangelical Students) and am thinking about\nattending although I am still not sure whether I can afford it.\n\nI would also like to hear from people involved in IFES or IVF groups just to\nhear how things are going on your campus.\nAre there any news groups or groups of people who already do this.\n\nI am involved in the Christian Fellowship at the University of Technology\nSydney in Australia. If you are interested to find out how we are going \nmail me to find out.", "In <1993Apr21.211038.12363@newshub.ists.ca> dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca\n\n", "Sorry all the personal replies I sent about help with UnlockFolder\ngot\neaten by my mail program (my fault), so I'd like to thank everyone\nwho sent me info!\n\n Kristen Lepa\n", "I offered to relay this information for a ham friend of mine without\nInternet access:\n\nHis name is Robert (Bob) Wondolowski, N1KDA, and his car was a \n1985 Brown Cutlas Sierra Sedan, Massachusetts plate 716ADL.\n\nHis HT (Yaesu FT415) and mobile antenna were also included in the car.\nIt was stolen from Lynn, Mass. about 10 days ago (being on April 6).\n\nIf anyone has any information about the car's whereabouts, please e-mail\nme.\n\nThank you for taking the time to read this message.\n\n\n===============================================================================\n===============================================================================", "I'll contact you offline about this.", "\n\n70277.2502@compuserve.com\n\n", "\n\tThis entire dispute over a chip has deluged this newsgroup with a \n\tlot of posts that have nothing to SELL. It all harkens back to a\n\tcertain user's post of a month or so ago: STOP POSTING COMPUTER\n\tEQUIPMENT HERE!!! Save it for the computer.forsale newsgroups!\n\tIf you don't GET the computer.forsale newsgroups, then ask your\n\tsysadmin. to try to subscribe to it at your location. Otherwise,\n\tknock it off! \n", "There is a new DoD listing. To get a copy use one of these commands:\n\n\t\tfinger motohead@cs.colorado.edu\n\t\t\t\tOR\n\t\tmail motohead@cs.colorado.edu\n\nIf you send mail make sure your \"From\" line is correct (ie \"man vacation\").\nI will not try at all to fix mail problems (unless they are mine ;-). And I\nmay just publicly tell the world what a bad mailer you have. I do scan the \nmail to find bounces but I will not waste my time answering your questions \nor requests.\n\nFor those of you that want to update your entry or get a # contact the KotL.\nOnly the KotL can make changes. SO STOP BOTHERING ME WITH INANE MAIL\n\nI will not tell what \"DoD\" is! Ask rec.motorcycles. I do not give out the #'s.\n", "% mail newsserv@kiae.su\nSubject: PLEASE, HELP!!!\n\n\n\n Dear Ladies and Gentlemen!\n\n\n We should be grateful for any information about address and (or)\n E-mail address of Loma-Linda Hospital (approximate position: USA,\n California, near Vaimor town, 60 miles from Los-Angelos).\n A patient needs consultation in this clinics before operation.\n", "Just an apology in advance for posting a binary to this newsgroup.\nI've had several attempts to mail it to the original poster but \nit's not getting through intact.\n", "Are you people sure his posts are being forwarded to his system operator???\nWho is forwarding them???\n\nIs there a similar file being kept on Mr. Omran???\n\nSalam,\n\nJohn Absood", "I am interested to know if there is any Pontiac e-mail car clubs out\nthere? Has anyone started one, or is anybody thinking about starting one.\nThanks for any info you can give me", "email your replies to:", "* Attention voters:\n*\n* I had a problem with my mailbox on the first day of voting.\n* Please check the Vote Acknowlegement (ACK) at the end of this CFV.\n* If your name/address is not there, please send your vote again.\n* (Actually, check even if you voted after the first day)\n\n\nIntroduction:\n\n\tThis is the third (and final) Call For Votes (CFV) for the creation\n\tof four OS/2 newsgroups and the renaming of one:\n\t(a) create comp.os.os2.programmer.porting (unmoderated)\n\t(b) renaming of comp.os.os2.programmer to\n\t comp.os.os2.programmer.misc (unmoderated)\n\t(c) comp.os.os2.setup (unmoderated)\n\t(d) comp.os.os2.multimedia (unmoderated)\n\t(e) comp.os.os2.bugs (unmoderated)\n\n\tThis is the second attempt at creating comp.os.os2.programmer.porting\n\tand comp.os.os2.setup, and renaming comp.os.os2.programmer to\n\tcomp.os.os2.programmer.misc. The first attempt failed in the summer\n\tof 1992 (the voting deadline was August 31, 1992). The voting rules\n\tstate that another attempt for creating newsgroups can be started\n\tafter a six month waiting period (in this case, it is March 1, 1993).\n\tThis is the first attempt at creating comp.os.os2.multimedia and\n\tcomp.os.os2.bugs.\n\n\tThis document contains:\n\t* the background showing the need for these proposals\n\t* the proposed charters for these proposals\n\t* voting instructions\n\t* a voting ballot\n\t* some example ballots\n\t* the voting rules\n\t* the voting schedule\n\t* the Mass Acknowledgement\n\n\nBackground:\n\n\tThe creation of two, free, 32-bit compilers for OS/2 2.x (gcc/2\n\tand emx/gcc; read comp.os.os2.programmer for details) has spurred\n\ta continuing deluge of software ported from UNIX platforms, such\n\tas emacs, less, awk, grep, sed, xscheme, ispell, flex, yacc, and\n\tmuch more. Borland has released its C/C++ compiler for OS/2 2.x,\n\tallowing for easier porting of DOS and Windows software.\n\n\tMuch of the PC hardware and drivers were written for DOS, and\n\tlater, Windows. As more people are discovering OS/2 2.x, the\n\tnumber of people asking questions about OS/2's compatibility\n\twith their hardware increases, as does the questions on the\n\tavailability of drivers for their hardware, installation\n\tprocedures, etc.\n\n\tMultimedia is becoming popular. OS/2 2.0 supports Windows\n\tMultimedia Extensions using Win-OS/2 3.0. Furthermore, IBM is\n\tincluding direct multimedia support in OS/2 starting with version\n\t2.1 (in addition to using Win-OS/2 3.1).\n\n\tAny non-trivial software will have bugs -- OS/2 is not exempt,\n\tespecially since IBM is constantly adding new features to OS/2.\n\tSo far, IBM has issued system patches and corrective service disks\n\t(e.g. the Service Pak) for free (free from BBSs and ftp sites, or\n\tfor free plus a small media charge for diskettes -- read\n\tcomp.os.os2.misc for details).\n\n\nProposed Charters:\n\n\t(a) create comp.os.os2.programmer.porting (unmoderated)\n\n\t\tIt will provide a forum for developers of ported software so\n\t\tas to coordinate efforts, avoid duplication of effort, and\n\t\tspur additional development. The group will also cover\n\t\ttopics such as porting from other platforms (such as DOS,\n\t\tWindows, UNIX, etc), toolkits which aid in program\n\t\tportability (including porting tools such as Mirrors), and\n\t\tso forth.\n\n\t(b) rename: comp.os.os2.programmer.misc (unmoderated)\n\n\t\tTo keep the structure of the OS/2 newsgroup heirarchy\n\t\torthogonal, comp.os.os2.programmer should be renamed to\n\t\tcomp.os.os2.programmer.misc.\n\n\t\tcomp.os.os2.programmer.misc will still be the newsgroup\n\t\tfor OS/2 programmers to discuss programming issues and\n\t\ttechnical aspects of OS/2 in an unmoderated setting.\n\n\t(c) create comp.os.os2.setup (unmoderated)\n\n\t\tIt will be devoted to OS/2 system setup topics, including the\n\t\tavailability of device drivers, compatibility information,\n\t\tinstallation procedures, system requirements, and overall\n\t\tperformance optimization.\n\n\t(d) create comp.os.os2.multimedia (unmoderated)\n\n\t\tIt will provide a forum for discussion of multi-media issues.\n\n\t(e) create comp.os.os2.bugs (unmoderated)\n\n\t\tIt will provide a forum for OS/2 system bug reports, bug\n\t\tdiagnosis and work arounds, the availability of system\n\t\tpatches and corrective service disks, and so forth.\n\n\t\t[Note that discussion of bugs in applications belong in other\n\t\tnewsgroups, and discussion of bugs in OS/2 betas belong in\n\t\tcomp.os.os2.beta]\n\n\nHow to Vote:\n\n\tTo cast your vote, fill out the ballot below and e-mail it to me.\n\tMany newsreaders will allow e-mail to be sent by replying to this\n\tpost. Be sure to send only the ballot, and edit out the rest of\n\tthis post.\n\n\t1) Type in your vote for each proposal:\n\n\t If you favor the charter as proposed, put a \"yes\" after its name.\n\t If you oppose the charter as proposed, put a \"no\" after its name.\n\t To abstain, leave a blank after its name.\n\n\t2) Type in your last name (i.e. your family name), a comma, and\n\t your first name (i.e. your personal name).\n\n\t3) Cut out the ballot, Please do not delete any lines of the\n\t ballot.\n\n\t4) E-mail your ballot to mlevis@lonestar.utsa.edu before 11:59:59 pm\n\t (Central Time), April 24, 1993.\n\n\nBallot:\n\n----------------cut here----------------cut here----------------cut here----\n\n (a) comp.os.os2.programmer.porting:\n (b) comp.os.os2.programmer.misc:\n (c) comp.os.os2.setup:\n (d) comp.os.os2.multimedia:\n (e) comp.os.os2.bugs:\n\n (f) voter's last, first name:\n\n e-mail ballot to mlevis@lonestar.utsa.edu by April 24\n\n----cut here----------------cut here----------------cut here----------------\n\n\nExample Ballot #1:\n\n\t(a) comp.os.os2.programmer.porting: yes\n\t(b) comp.os.os2.programmer.misc: yes\n\t(c) comp.os.os2.setup: no\n\t(d) comp.os.os2.multimedia:\n\t(e) comp.os.os2.bugs: no\n\n\t(f) voter's last, first name: Smith, John\n\n\tIn this example, John Smith favors comp.os.os2.programmer.porting\n\tto be created, and comp.os.os2.programmer to be renamed to\n\tcomp.os.os2.programmer.misc. He also opposes the creation of\n\tcomp.os.os2.setup and comp.os.os2.bugs. He does not have a view\n\ton the creation of comp.os.os2.multimedia. \n\n\nExample Ballot #2:\n\n\t(a) comp.os.os2.programmer.porting: yes\n\t(b) comp.os.os2.programmer.misc: yes\n\t(c) comp.os.os2.setup: yes\n\t(d) comp.os.os2.multimedia: yes\n\t(e) comp.os.os2.bugs: yes\n\n\t(f) voter's last, first name: Doe, Jane\n\n\tIn this example, Jane Doe favors the creation or rename of all\n\tthe proposals.\n\n\nVoting Rules:\n\n\t* One vote per person. If you vote more than once, only the most\n\t recent vote will be counted.\n\n\t* Votes must be mailed to me by the person voting. Proxy voting,\n\t forwarding, posting votes to a newsgroup, etc. will not be counted.\n\n\t* Do not ask how the votes are going. The status of the votings\n\t will be revealed only after the poll closes.\n\n\t* I will acknowledge votes by Mass Acknowledgement (ACK). I will\n\t post the ACK twice (see Schedule below).\n\n\t* If you need help for using your editor, using e-mail, how\n\t voting works in general, etc. then ask an expert at your site.\n\t Also see the ``How To Create a New Newsgroup'' article which is\n\t posted to news.answers on a regular basis.\n\n\t* If you need any clarifications on voting procedures for this\n\t CFV, send me e-mail at mlevis@ringer.cs.utsa.edu.\n\n\t* When the voting period is over (see Schedule below), a proposal\n\t passes if both of the following formulas are true:\n\t 1) the number of YES votes exceeds the number of NO votes\n\t by at least 100 (i.e. YES >= NO + 100, or YES - NO >= 100).\n\t 2) the number of YES votes exceeds at least twice the\n\t number of NO votes (i.e. YES >= 2 * NO, or YES - NO >= NO).\n\t In other words, a proposal passes if:\n\t YES - NO >= max (100, NO)\n\t where max() returns the highest number given to it.\n\n\nSchedule:\n\n\tThe voting period started on March 29 when the first CFV was posted\n\tby David Lawrence (the news.announce.newgroups moderator).\n\n\tThis third CFV is a repeat of the first CFV, but it also has the\n\tMass Acknowledgement (ACK) of names and e-mail addresses of those who\n\thave already voted -- re-send your vote if it is not there. If you\n\thave not voted yet, vote now!\n\n\tThe voting period will end at 11:59:59 pm (Central Time), on\n\tApril 24, 1993. Votes received after that time will not count.\n\tThe voting results and tally will be posted shortly after that\n\tdate.\n\n\nMass Acknowledgement:\n\n\tHere is the list of people who have already sent in their ballots\n\tas of 12:01 am (Central Time) on April 15, 1993:\n\n bdubbs@cs.tamu.edu\nAiyagari, Sanjay ska1@crux3.cit.cornell.edu\nAlcorn, Justin alcorn@alpha.ces.cwru.edu\nArien, Peter LAAAA43%BLEKUL11.BITNET@FRMOP11.CNUSC.FR\nAsselin, Andre assela@rpi.edu\nAurand, Tom tom@longs.lance.colostate.edu\nBaechler, Cedric cbaechle@iiic.ethz.ch\nBartlett, Warren bart@pdn.paradyne.com\nBates, John johnb@up.edu\nBeadles, J. jeff@neon.rain.com\nBeal, Kenneth kbeal@amber.ssd.csd.harris.com\nBedersdorfer, Jochen beders@dfki.uni-sb.de\nBell, Douglas dab6@SCL.CWRU.Edu\nBenningfield, Robert concert.net!aurs01!aurw7a!benningf\nBiegel, Bryan biegel@tigris.stanford.edu\nBlackman, Ed EBB7683@VENUS.TAMU.EDU\nBodnar, John jbodnar@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu\nBoisvert, Wesley wesb@dermit.isis.org\nboneham, kevin boneham@suntan.eng.usf.edu\nBoresch, Stefan boresch@tammy.harvard.edu\nBoschma, Wilfried v911071@si.hhs.nl\nBotha, David BOTH-DD@mella.ee.up.ac.za\nBowe, Nathaniel woody@vnet.IBM.COM\nBowers, Neil neilb@borris.eece.unm.edu\nBraun,David roland@roll.choate.edu\nBronner, Geoffrey geoffb@coos.dartmouth.edu\nBrors, Dieter db@ix.de\nBrown, Bill brown@chinchilla.ir.ucf.edu\nCambria, Michael cambria@smaug.enet.dec.com\nCarlson, Bill woc8r@poplar.cs.virginia.edu\nChampion, Evan evanc@carbon.isis.org\nChandonia, John chandoni@husc.harvard.edu\nChen, Ted tedc@cs.ubc.ca\nChua, Hak c164-ez@po.berkeley.edu\nCiesielski, Boleslaw bolek@viewlogic.com\nClement, Bruce frey@alfheim.actrix.gen.nz\nClemente, Marc F. mfclemente@ucdavis.edu\nCline, Ernest cline@usceast.cs.scarolina.edu\nCocking , Simon simonc@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au\nCompton, Curtis compton@plains.NoDak.edu\nCostello, Robert rcc9885@ultb.isc.rit.edu\nCoulman, Randy coulman@skdad.usask.ca\nCox, Anthony AECOX@waikato.ac.nz\nCox, Robert rcox@qvack.EE.McGill.CA\nCulliton, Tom culliton@srg.af.mil\ndaigle, Joe daigle@apollo.hp.com\nDeCarlo, John jdecarlo@mitre.org\nDippold, Ron rdippold@qualcomm.com\nDonaldson, Ian icd@ecr.mu.oz.au\nDrye, Stephen scdrye@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca\nDuffy, Patrick duffy@theory.chem.ubc.ca\nDusitsin, Krid dusitsin@ee.umr.edu\nErzberger, Martin erzberg@ifi.unizh.ch\nFeldtmann, Marten marten@feki.toppoint.de\nFeustel, Edward efeustel@ida.org\nfilippini,luigi luigi@berlioz.crs4.it\nFischer, Stefan fischer@tammy.harvard.edu\nFleuren, Rik rik@sci.kun.nl\nFrancis, Tim francis@vnet.IBM.COM\nFrancois Menard menaf00@dmi.usherb.ca\nFranks, Derek franks@hercules.cs.uregina.ca\nFranzki, Wolfgang wfranzki@hlrserv.hlrz.kfa-juelich.de\nFriedrich, Jochen jofried@fzi.de\nFriis, Torben tfriis@imada.ou.dk\nG\"unther, Stefan stefan@med-informatik.uni-hildesheim.de\nGalarza, Edward LENBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU\nGammon, Robert rgammon@rgam.sc.ti.com\nGartler, Hermann herm@owlnet.rice.edu\nGarzik, Jeff gtd543a@prism.gatech.edu\nGershman, Mark gershman@bach.udel.edu\nGiller, David R. rafetmad@cheshire.oxy.edu\nGnassi, John jgnassi@hstbme.mit.edu\nGoyal, Mohit goyal@utdallas.edu\nGreen, Anthony green@roboco.uucp\nGrupenhoff, Mike kashmir@wam.umd.edu\nGuo, Youren yguo@sparc0a.cs.uiuc.edu\nHacker;Jonathan hacker@cco.caltech.edu\nHaggerty, Michael mrhagger@Athena.MIT.EDU\nHargrave, BJ fattire@vnet.IBM.COM\nHartman, Shane shane@spr.com\nHartzman, Les hartzman@kilroy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov\nHassa, George hassag@rpi.edu\nHed, Nevo nyh@wpi.WPI.EDU\nHeederik, Robbert heederik@fwi.uva.nl\nHellerhoff, Torsten Torsten_Hellerhoff@ac2.maus.de\nHendel, Bernd BHENDEL@estec.estec.esa.nl\nHenriksen, Gerald rn.1035@rose.com\nHenry, Andrew A.H.Henry@gdr.bath.ac.uk\nHerbison, B.J. herbison@lassie.ucx.lkg.dec.com\nHerron, Kenneth kherron@ms.uky.edu\nHilmer, Andrew hilmera@mist.CS.ORST.EDU\nHoang, Long lhoang@orion.oac.uci.edu\nHodge, Bob HODGE@iccgcc.cs.hh.ab.com\nHodges, Matthew modester@iastate.edu\nHollebone, Bruce lermer@theory.chem.ubc.ca\nholsman, Ian IHolsman@cmutual.com.au\nHopkins, John john@uhs1.uhs.uga.edu\nHoppenbrouwers, Jeroen hoppie@kub.nl\nHoward, Robert robert.howard@matd.gatech.edu\nHuang, Ping pshuang@Athena.MIT.EDU\nJackson, Dave D.Jackson@axion.bt.co.uk\nJensen, Colin ljensen@netcom.com\nKassarjian, Steven kassarji@spot.Colorado.EDU\nKiehl, Horst kiehl@ibt013.ibt.kfa-juelich.de\nKitchin, Bruce kitchin@lf.hp.com\nKone, Bob bkone@rflab.ee.ubc.ca\nKovarski, Mark kovarski@zooid.guild.org\nKretzer, Myke tanith@csd4.csd.uwm.edu\nLacy, Stephen sl31+@andrew.cmu.edu\nlai, william lai@seas.gwu.edu\nLandy, Brian landy@cco.caltech.edu\nlau, frankie lau@tammy.harvard.edu\nLau, Stephen lau@ai.sri.com\nLawton, Gef glawton@cs.uah.edu\nLe Glasse, Franck Franck.Leglasse@irisa.fr\nLebius, Henning lebius@utkux1.utk.edu\nlee, james jelee@ucdavis.edu\nLehtonen, Jari jarlehto@utu.fi\nLeitner, Thomas tom@finwds01.tu-graz.ac.at\nLempriere, Mike mikel@networx.com\nLentin, Kevin kevinl@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au\nLeung, Johnnie k7z092@rick.cs.ubc.ca\nLim, Pean plim@claircom.com\nLin, Steven slin@cisco.com\nLindholm, George lindholm@ucs.ubc.ca\nLiukkonen, Juha jliukkon@cc.helsinki.fi\nLogan, Stan logan@lexmark.com\nLu, Kevin kevinlu@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au\nMartin, Johannes jmartin@mogli.zdv.uni-mainz.de\nMashao, Daniel djm@lems.Brown.EDU\nMaturo, Larry larry@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu\nMaxwell, Scott scott.maxwell@channel1.com\nMayer, Gunther H. gmayer@physik.uni-kl.de\nMaynard, Jay jmaynard@nyx.cs.du.edu\nMcCarthy, Christopher mccarthy@gollum.ttd.teradyne.com\nMcgehrin, Matthew matthew@dabeef@des.edu\nMcGing, John jmcging@access.digex.com\nMcGuire, Ed emcguire@intellection.com\nMcMillan, Andrew Andrew.McMillan@folly.welly.gen.nz\nmeyer, jeff moriarty@tc.fluke.COM\nMiller, Richard rick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu\nMittelstaedt, Olaf H.-P. mittelst@felix.rz.fh-ulm.de\nmoorcroft, marc smarry@zooid.guild.org\nMorrison, John Paul jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca\nMosher, David dmosher@nyx.cs.du.edu\nMouawad, Naji. nmouawad@math.uwaterloo.ca\nMullins, Don mullins@magnum.convex.com\nNadler, Cliff cnadler@vnet.IBM.COM\nNareid, Helge Helge.Nareid@due.unit.no\nNarinian, Vartan v.narinian@ic.ac.uk\nNorton, Charles M. cmn@ftp.com\no'neel, bruce oneel@aplcenmp.apl.jhu.edu\nO'Rourke, Sean sorourke@lonestar.utsa.edu\nOldham, C. R. cro@socrates.ed.asu.edu\nOlson, Eric ejo@kaja.gi.alaska.edu\nOussoren, Ronald roussor@cs.vu.nl\nowens, bill owens@cookiemonster.cc.buffalo.edu\nParks, Dwayne dcp@engr.uark.edu\nParry, Tom parry@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au\nPebly, Bob pebly@vnet.IBM.COM\nPerdue, Alicia arperd00@mik.uky.edu\nPetro, Herbert hmpetro@mosaic.uncc.edu\nPietilainen, Pekka ppi@eero.oulu.fi\nPoole, David dpoole@hydrogen.oscs.montana.edu\nPowell, Stephen stevep@kralizec.zeta.org.au\nPrescod, Paul papresco@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca\nProvensal, jerome uunet.UU.NET!iac!jerome\nQuinn, Michael quinn@phoenix.Princeton.EDU\nRao, Venkat rao@cactus.org\nReisert, Jim reisert@mast.enet.dec.com\nReynolds, Robert easyrob@cs.utexas.edu\nRobertson, James ROBERTSON@PHYSC3.BYU.EDU\nRoelofs, Greg roe2@midway.uchicago.edu\nRosenvold, Johan Kristian jkr@ifi.uio.no\nRuppel, Markus m.ruppel@imperial.ac.uk\nRyan, Sean FSSPR@acad3.alaska.edu\nSalomon, Larry os2man@Panix.Com\nSchimke, Nathan schimken@cs.rpi.edu\nSchipper, Haijo haijo@cs.rug.nl\nSeymour, Jim qintar@agora.rain.com\nShankar, Gess gess@knex.via.mind.ORG\nShaw, Jeremy jeremy@plxsun.plx.com\nSierwald, Joern Sierwald@tu-harburg.dbp.de\nSIPPLES, TIMOTHY sip1@midway.uchicago.edu\nSkogstad, Oddbjorn odskog@siri.unit.no\nSmith, Donald djs6015@ultb.isc.rit.edu\nSmith, Eliot esmith@psych.purdue.edu\nSneath, Tim psyhtjs@mips.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk\nSorensen, Tom gt0040a@prism.gatech.edu\nSriram, N swknasri@nuscc.nus.sg\nSteele, Alan steele@nrcphy1.phy.nrc.ca\nSteinkopf, Dirk dirk@km21.zfe.siemens.de\nStirling, Ian T. ian@vnet.IBM.COM\nStrazdus, Stephen sstrazdu@sedona.intel.com\nstreeter, carl cstreete@nyx.cs.du.edu\nSum, Eva eesum00@mik.uky.edu\nSum, Joey jpsum00@mik.uky.edu\nSuttor, Jeff jsuttor@netcom.com\nSwallow, Doug doug@montage.oau.org\nSward, David sward+@cmu.edu\nThomas, Stephen swt@therson.affinity.mn.org\nThompson, Michael tommy@msc.cornell.edu\nTiffany, Bernard lbt@umich.edu\ntorremans, engelbert etorrem%hvlpa@att.att.com\nTremain, Jim JIM@BIOLOGY.watstar.uwaterloo.ca\nTsen, Maoee tsen0001@student.tc.umn.edu\nvan der Lek, Petja P.vanderLek@research.ptt.nl\nVan Iwaarden, Ronald rvaniwaa@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU\nvan Woerkom, Marc E.E. Marc_Van-Woerkom@ac3.maus.de\nVeeraraghavan, Venkatesh venky@owlnet.rice.edu\nVeldhuyzen, Eric v912182@si.hhs.nl\nVigor, Kevin kevin@wicat.COM\nVillumsen, Ole ovillumsen@daimi.aau.dk\nWald, David wald@theory.lcs.mit.edu\nWallace, Jack grey@vnet.IBM.COM\nWantosch, Rainer RAINER@sasowa.han.de\nWatson, Brett watson@s1.elec.uq.oz.au\nWeber-Fahr, Christoph weber@rhrk.uni-kl.de\nWeeks, Larry dev@ecn.purdue.edu\nWerner, John werner@SOE.Berkeley.Edu\nWest, Mike west@esd.dl.nec.com\nweyrich, orville uunet.uu.net!weyrich!orville\nWhite, Andrew apwhite@csugrad.cs.vt.edu\nWiersema, Brian brianw@umd5.umd.edu\nWimmer, Carsten Carsten_Wimmer@train.fido.de\nWittenauer, Allen Allen_Wittenauer@crispy.carb.il.us\nWoodbury, Gregory ggw@wolves.Durham.NC.US\nWorthington, Stephen stephen@actrix.gen.nz\nWright, Gregory gregory@bcstec.ca.boeing.com\nWyble, Richard transfer.stratus.com!schunix!rwyble\nYOUNG, DAVID M. dyoung@netcom.com\nZabbal, Christian kris@binkley.cs.mcgill.ca\nzawodny, jeremy jzawodn@andy.bgsu.edu\nZou, Nan nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu", "I need to know the following information about the upcoming\nCrypto Conference; The address to submit articles, and the\nnumber of copies needed. Thanks,\n\t\t\t\tJonathan DeMarrais \n\t\t\t\tjed@pollux.usc.edu\n\n-- \n--- Jay jed@pollux.usc.edu (University of Southern California)", "\n\nI thought your nickname was \"UnEnlightened\"\n-- \nMaddi Hausmann madhaus@netcom.com\nCentigram Communications Corp San Jose California 408/428-3553", "\n\nSherzer Methodology!!!!!!\n\n", "I heard they were posted somewhere, but I can not find them.\n\nPlease e-mail location.\n\nThanks,\n\t-Jody\n\n-- \nJody Hagins -- hagins@avlin8.us.dg.com\nData General Corporation, Linthicum, MD", "Subject says it all. Please email soon. \nskcgoh@tartarus.uwa.edu.au\n", "\n\n\nLikewise for me please. First time I've hear of it, but I've beem looking\nfor something like this for the past few months.", "I'm trying to get in touch with Mitsumi - anyone have their number?\n\n-- \n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\n --- --- Frank Pikelner /~\\\n \\ \\ \\ Technical Assistant, Department of Computer Science \n \\- \\-- York University (Toronto, Canada) ,\\^/;\n \\ \\ Internet: frank@cs.yorku.ca _{!}_", "Evolution of SCO newsgroups and Mailing Lists\n ---------------------------------------------\n \n Many readers enjoyed the opportunity to obtain and contribute useful\n information on SCO Open Desktop since 1990 through the ancestral USENET\n newsgroup sco.opendesktop or it's companion mailing list. Similarly,\n there was a demonstrated need for an information and discussion forum\n for SCO products in general.\n \n With the increasing demand for accessibility and for additional SCO\n newsgroups, many current contributors including those who have been\n active in circulating SCO related newsgroups and mailing lists felt\n that the readership would be best served by creating a biz.sco.*\n hierarchy to improve propagation (and hence availability) worldwide.\n\n biz.sco.{opendesktop,general,announce} were newgrouped May 1, 1991 in\n accordance with accepted procedure within \"biz\". Given the content,\n this change relocated the \"opendesktop\" newsgroup to a more proper place\n within the established usenet news hierarchy and adds the new \"announce\"\n and \"general\" groups. On Aug 1, 1991, the former \"sco-list@uunet.uu.net\"\n became \"scogen\" in keeping with established biz.sco.* naming conventions.\n\n biz.sco.binaries and biz.sco.sources were newgrouped on June 1, 1992\n to respectively accommodate SCO Xenix, UNIX and OpenDesktop specific\n binaries and source code. The binaries and sources news groups are\n moderated, with moderator and submissions information and policy\n outlined in the periodic imformational postings in those newsgroups.\n Respecting USENET etiquite, these newsgroups are _not_ gated to\n mailing lists, but are archived on several nuucp and ftp hosts.\n\n biz.sco.magazine was newgrouped Dec 14, 1992, to provide a discussion\n area for the readers, writers and publishers of SCO Magazine.\n \n Subject to the USENET NEWS hierarchies carried by your upstream feed,\n you are now able to subscribe to the following:\n \n Newsgroup mailing list subscription\n --------- -------------------------\n biz.sco.opendesktop scoodt-request@xenitec.on.ca\n biz.sco.general scogen-request@xenitec.on.ca\n biz.sco.announce scoann-request@xenitec.on.ca\n\tbiz.sco.sources\t\t\t\n\tbiz.sco.binaries\t\t\n\tbiz.sco.magazine\t scomag-request@xenitec.on.ca\n\n You are _strongly_ encouraged to obtain these newsgroups via USENET\n NEWS mechanisms vrs mail. Anyone having difficulty arranging a news\n feed for these newsgroups is welcome to email the undersigned and\n I'll do my best to help. We also offer all required software in\n source code form via anonymous FTP and UUCP, as do many archive sites.\n If, after having explored all options, you are still unable to receive\n biz.sco.* as news, you may subscribe to the mailing lists.\n \n The 4 discussion newsgroups are bi-directionally gated to companion\n mailing lists, so anyone not having access to NEWS but who does have a\n UUCP or Internet mail feed can still participate fully using email.\n Mailing list subscribers should send their request to the appropriate\n \"mailing list subscription\" address above, including in the message body:\n\n\tAdd: subscriber_address\t\t-eg-\n\tAdd: your_logname@site.do.main -or-\n\tAdd: up!stream!yoursite!your_logname\n\n Inclusion of an alternative working bang-path relative to a well know\n major functional site might prove beneficial. Deletions are handled\n the same way, simply substitute \"Delete:\" for \"Add:\", ensuring that\n you use the exact same address you subscribed with. Mailing list\n subscribers receive \"how to post to the mlist\" article submission\n information when their request is processed. If you don't receive\n an acknowledgement within a few days, check your routing and try a test\n message via xenitec.on.ca back to your host. In such cases, it's likely\n that someone, somewhere, is bouncing mail replies to you (and would do\n the same with mailing list traffic), and you'll want to resolve your\n connectivity problem before trying to subscribe again. Mailing list\n subscriptions are free, subject to whatever arrangements you may have\n with the site(s) feeding you.\n \n Should you receive no response or experience a sudden and prolonged\n drop to zero volume on one of the mailing lists, this indicates that we\n are no longer able to find a working route to your site. We loose a\n handful of subscribers this way each month. If this happens to you,\n please email us your known working bang-path relative to a major site.\n\n What's in the newsgroups (and mailing_lists where applicable):\n \n biz.sco.opendesktop: Technical questions and answers and informative\n postings relating to past, present, and future\n implementations of the SCO OpenDeskTop operating\n environment and it's various bundled components.\n \n biz.sco.general: Questions, answers and comments on SCO products\n in general, and of course resulting discussions.\n \n biz.sco.announce: SCO and SCO Developer product announcements of\n\t\t\tinterest to current and future users of SCO products,\n\t\t\tand to SCO developers, resellers and distributors.\n (moderated, followups directed to biz.sco.general).\n\n biz.sco.sources:\tSysV or BSD source code for useful programs and\n\t\t\tutilities, modified to compile and run with various\n\t\t\tincarnations of SCO Xenix, UNIX, and/or OpenDesktop.\n\n biz.sco.binaries:\tBinary packages compiled from SCO compatible source\n\t\t\tcode, often from source posted in biz.sco.sources\n\t\t\tand often installable using the SCO \"custom\" utility.\n\n biz.sco.magazine:\tInteraction between the SCO Magazine readers, \n\t\t\twriters and publishers.\n\n You should always endeavour to post your article to the most applicable\n newsgroup. For example, posting your ODT question to the \"general\"\n newsgroup will preclude your question and answers to it from being\n saved in the public ODT archives. Appropriate crossposting is allowed.\n\n The undersigned is solely responsible for administration of the biz.sco\n namespace. Suggestions for additional biz.sco.* newsgroups and/or\n mailing lists should be emailed to the address below.", "I am coordinating the Space Shuttle Program Office's e-mail traffic to\nNPO Energia for our on-going Joint Missions. I have several e-mail\naddresses for NPO Energia folks, but I won't post them on the 'Net for\nobvious reasons. If you need to know, give me a yell.\n\n-- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office\n kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (713) 483-4368", " Is there a Chicago Cubs mailing list?? If so, I'd like to join.\nAny help appreciated....\n\n\n", "\nI've tried 72105.1351@compuserve.com\n\nBounced twice.... Any other guesses?", "Sender: \nReply-To: harmons@gyro.WV.TEK.COM (Harmon Sommer)\nDistribution: \nOrganization: /usr/ens/etc/organization\nKeywords: \n\n\n\n", "\nSorry again. I guess you need my address.", "Are there any Off-Line mail readers for the net-news? In qwk format? It \nwould be really helpfull to be able to download the net news from a Vax or\nmainframe and read it off-line.....\n\n\nAdam Hodge", "\n\n\n\n When we take a hand off the bars we fall down!\n\n__\n Jorg Klinger | GSXR1100 | If you only new who\n Arch. & Eng. Services |\"Lost Horizons\" CR500 | I think I am. \n UManitoba, Man. Ca. |\"The Embalmer\" IT175 | - anonymous", "Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.vw\nSubject: Re: Quick question\nSummary:\nExpires:\nSender:\nReply-To: ct22@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Constantino Tobio)\nFollowup-To:\nDistribution: \nOrganization: Columbia University\nKeywords: Removing panels.\n\n\nQuick question. Why are you posting this to a VW newsgroup?\n\nNewsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.vw\nSubject: Re: Quick Question\nSummary: \nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Columbia University\nKeywords: \n\nNewsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.vw\nNewsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.vw\nSubject: Re: Quick question\nSummary:\nExpires:\nReferences: <1993Apr5.211457.12789@ole.cdac.com>\nSender:\nReply-To: ct22@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Constantino Tobio)\nFollowup-To:\nDistribution: \nOrganization: Columbia University\nKeywords: Removing panels.\n", "... Wayne McGuire? Did someone prove he's anon15031@anon.penet.fi,\nand he ran off to restock on PCP?", "Reply address: mark.prado@permanet.org\n\nIf anyone knows anyone else who would like to get sci.space,\nbut doesn't have an Internet feed (or has a cryptic Internet\nfeed), I would be willing to feed it to them. I have a nice\noffline message reader/editor, an automated modem \"mailer\"\nprogram which will pick up mail bundles (quickly and easily),\nand an INSTALL.EXE to set them up painlessly. No charge for\nthe sci.space feed, though you have to dial Washington, D.C.\nThis is NOT a BBS -- it's a store & forward system for mail\nbundles, with minimum connect times. (I'm used to overseas\ncalls.) (This is not an offer for a free feed for any other\nparticular newsgroups.) Speeds of up to 14400 (v32bis) are\nsupported. VIP's might be offered other free services, such\nas Internet address and other functionality.\n\nI get my feed from UUNET and run a 4-line hub. I've been\nhubbing for years -- I have an extremely reliable hub.\n\nThe software I provide runs under MS-DOS (and OS/2 and Windows\nas a DOS box). Other, compatible software packages exist for\nthe MacIntosh and Unix.\n\nAny responses should be private and go to: \nmark.prado@permanet.org\n\n(By the way, to all, my apologies for the public traffic on my\nglib question. I really didn't expect public replys. But thanks\nto Bill Higgins for the interesting statistics and the lead.)", " HELP!\nMaybe anybody know names of conferences in\nPlease help Me find any information for next keywords:\nechocardiography and cardiology+dopler\nI hawe no informatins on this subjects 2 years becouse i leave in\nTbilisy.\nsorry for my bad english!\nMY adress: irina@kiria.kheta.georgia.su\n\n", "------------- cut here -----------------\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n +------------------------------------------------+\n ! !\n ! Health Info-Com Network !\n ! Medical Newsletter !\n +------------------------------------------------+\n Editor: David Dodell, D.M.D.\n 10250 North 92nd Street, Suite 210, Scottsdale, Arizona 85258-4599 USA\n Telephone +1 (602) 860-1121\n FAX +1 (602) 451-1165\n\nCompilation Copyright 1993 by David Dodell, D.M.D. All rights Reserved. \nLicense is hereby granted to republish on electronic media for which no \nfees are charged, so long as the text of this copyright notice and license \nare attached intact to any and all republished portion or portions. \n\nThe Health Info-Com Network Newsletter is distributed biweekly. Articles \non a medical nature are welcomed. If you have an article, please contact \nthe editor for information on how to submit it. If you are interested in \njoining the automated distribution system, please contact the editor. \n\nE-Mail Address:\n Editor: \n Internet: david@stat.com\n FidoNet = 1:114/15\n Bitnet = ATW1H@ASUACAD \nLISTSERV = MEDNEWS@ASUACAD.BITNET (or internet: mednews@asuvm.inre.asu.edu) \n anonymous ftp = vm1.nodak.edu\n Notification List = hicn-notify-request@stat.com\n FAX Delivery = Contact Editor for information\n\n\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n\n T A B L E O F C O N T E N T S\n\n\n1. Comments & News from the Editor\n OCR / Scanner News ................................................... 1\n\n2. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention - MMWR\n [16 April 1993] Emerging Infectious Diseases ......................... 3\n Outbreak of E. coli Infections from Hamburgers ....................... 5\n Use of Smokeless Tobacoo Among Adults ................................ 10\n Gonorrhea ............................................................ 14\n Impact of Adult Safety-Belt Use on Children less than 11 years Age ... 17\n Publication of CDC Surveillance Summaries ............................ 21\n\n3. Clinical Research News\n High Tech Assisted Reproductive Technologies ......................... 24\n\n4. Articles\n Low Levels Airborne Particles Linked to Serious Asthma Attacks ....... 29\n NIH Consensus Development Conference on Melanoma ..................... 31\n National Cancer Insitute Designated Cancer Centers ................... 32\n\n5. General Announcments\n UCI Medical Education Software Repository ............................ 40\n\n6. AIDS News Summaries\n AIDS Daily Summary April 12 to April 15, 1993 ........................ 41\n\n7. AIDS/HIV Articles\n First HIV Vaccine Trial Begins in HIV-Infected Children .............. 47\n New Evidence that the HIV Can Cause Disease Independently ............ 50\n Clinical Consultation Telephone Service for AIDS ..................... 52\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page i\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n\n\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n Comments & News from the Editor\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n\nI would like to continue to thank everyone who has sent in a donation for the \nMednews OCR/Scanner Fund. We have reached our goal! A Hewlett Packard\nScanjet IIp was purchased this week.\n\nThank you to the following individuals whose contributions I just received:\n\nJohn Sorenson\nCarol Sigelman\nCarla Moore\nBarbara Moose\nJudith Schrier\n\nAgain, thank you to all who gave!\n\nI have been using Wordscan Plus for the past couple of weeks and would like to \nreview the product. Wordscan Plus is a product of Calera Recognition Systems. \nIt runs under Windows 3.1 and supports that Accufont Technology of the Hewlett \nPackard Scanners. \n\nWhen initially bringing up the software, it lets you select several options; \n(1) text / graphics (2) input source ie scanner, fax file, disk file (3) \nautomatic versus manual decomposition of the scanned image. \n\nI like manual decomposition since the software then lets me select which \nparts of the document I would like scanned, and in what order.\n\nOnce an image is scanned, you can bring up the Pop-Up image verification. The \nsoftware gives you two \"errors\" at this point. Blue which are words that were \nconverted reliability, but do not match anything in the built-in dictionary. \nYellow shade, which are words that Wordscan Plus doesn't think it converted \ncorrectly at all. I have found that the software should give itself more \ncredit. It is usually correct, instead of wrong. If a word is shaded blue, \nyou can add it to your personal dictionary. The only problem is the personal \ndictionary will only handle about 200 words. I find this to be very limited, \nconsidering how many medical terms are not in a normal dictionary. \n\nAfter a document is converted, you can save it in a multitude of word \nprocessor formats. Also any images that were captured can be stored in a \nseperate TIFF or PCX file format.\n\nI was extremely impressed on the percent accuracy for fax files. I use \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 1\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nan Intel Satisfaxtion card, which stores incoming faxs in a PCX/DCX format. \nWhile most of my faxes were received in \"standard\" mode (200x100 dpi), the \naccuracy of Wordscan Plus was excellent. \n\nOverall, a very impressive product. The only fault I could find is the \nlimitations of the size of the user dictionary. 200 specialized words is just \ntoo small. \n\nIf anyone has any specific questions, please do not hesitate to send me email.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 2\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n\n\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n Centers for Disease Control and Prevention - MMWR\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n\n Emerging Infectious Diseases\n ============================\n SOURCE: MMWR 42(14) DATE: Apr 16, 1993\n\n Introduction\n\n Despite predictions earlier this century that infectious diseases would \nsoon be eliminated as a public health problem (1), infectious diseases remain \nthe major cause of death worldwide and a leading cause of illness and death in \nthe United States. Since the early 1970s, the U.S. public health system has \nbeen challenged by a myriad of newly identified pathogens and syndromes (e.g., \nEscherichia coli O157:H7, hepatitis C virus, human immunodeficiency virus, \nLegionnaires disease, Lyme disease, and toxic shock syndrome). The incidences \nof many diseases widely presumed to be under control, such as cholera, \nmalaria, and tuberculosis (TB), have increased in many areas. Furthermore, \ncontrol and prevention of infectious diseases are undermined by drug \nresistance in conditions such as gonorrhea, malaria, pneumococcal disease, \nsalmonellosis, shigellosis, TB, and staphylococcal infections (2). Emerging \ninfections place a disproportionate burden on immunocompromised persons, those \nin institutional settings (e.g., hospitals and child day care centers), and \nminority and underserved populations. The substantial economic burden of \nemerging infections on the U.S. health-care system could be reduced by more \neffective surveillance systems and targeted control and prevention programs \n(3). \n This issue of MMWR introduces a new series, \"Emerging Infectious \nDiseases.\" Future articles will address these diseases, as well as \nsurveillance, control, and prevention efforts by health-care providers and \npublic health officials. This first article updates the ongoing investigation \nof an outbreak of E. coli O157:H7 in the western United States (4). \n\nReferences\n\n1. Burnet M. Natural history of infectious disease. Cambridge, England: \nCambridge University Press, 1963. \n\n2. Kunin CM. Resistance to antimicrobial drugs -- a worldwide calamity. Ann \nIntern Med 1993;118:557-61. \n\n3. Lederberg J, Shope RE, Oaks SC Jr, eds. Emerging infections: microbial \nthreats to health in the United States. Washington, DC: National Academy \nPress, 1992. \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 3\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n\n4. CDC. Preliminary report: foodborne outbreak of Escherichia coli O157:H7 \ninfections from hamburgers --western United States, 1993. MMWR 1993;42:85-6.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 4\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n Update: Multistate Outbreak of Escherichia coli O157:H7\n Infections from Hamburgers -- Western United States,\n 1992-1993\n =======================================================\n SOURCE: MMWR 42(14) DATE: Apr 16, 1993\n\n From November 15, 1992, through February 28, 1993, more than 500 \nlaboratory-confirmed infections with E. coli O157:H7 and four associated \ndeaths occurred in four states -- Washington, Idaho, California, and Nevada. \nThis report summarizes the findings from an ongoing investigation (1) that \nidentified a multistate outbreak resulting from consumption of hamburgers from \none restaurant chain. Washington \n On January 13, 1993, a physician reported to the Washington Department of \nHealth a cluster of children with hemolytic uremic syndrome (HUS) and an \nincrease in emergency room visits for bloody diarrhea. During January 16-17, a \ncase-control study comparing 16 of the first cases of bloody diarrhea or \npostdiarrheal HUS identified with age- and neighborhood-matched controls \nimplicated eating at chain A restaurants during the week before symptom onset \n(matched odds ratio OR=undefined; lower confidence limit=3.5). On January \n18, a multistate recall of unused hamburger patties from chain A restaurants \nwas initiated. \n As a result of publicity and case-finding efforts, during January-\nFebruary 1993, 602 patients with bloody diarrhea or HUS were reported to the \nstate health department. A total of 477 persons had illnesses meeting the case \ndefinition of culture-confirmed E. coli O157:H7 infection or postdiarrheal HUS \n(Figure 1). Of the 477 persons, 52 (11%) had close contact with a person with \nconfirmed E. coli O157:H7 infection during the week preceding onset of \nsymptoms. Of the remaining 425 persons, 372 (88%) reported eating in a chain A \nrestaurant during the 9 days preceding onset of symptoms. Of the 338 patients \nwho recalled what they ate in a chain A restaurant, 312 (92%) reported eating \na regular-sized hamburger patty. Onsets of illness peaked from January 17 \nthrough January 20. Of the 477 casepatients, 144 (30%) were hospitalized; 30 \ndeveloped HUS, and three died. The median age of patients was 7.5 years \n(range: 0-74 years). Idaho \n Following the outbreak report from Washington, the Division of Health, \nIdaho Department of Health and Welfare, identified 14 persons with culture-\nconfirmed E. coli O157:H7 infection, with illness onset dates from December \n11, 1992, through February 16, 1993 (Figure 2A). Four persons were \nhospitalized; one developed HUS. During the week preceding illness onset, 13 \n(93%) had eaten at a chain A restaurant. California \n In late December, the San Diego County Department of Health Services was \nnotified of a child with E. coli O157:H7 infection who subsequently died. \nActive surveillance and record review then identified eight other persons with \nE. coli O157:H7 infections or HUS from mid-November through mid-January 1993. \nFour of the nine reportedly had recently eaten at a chain A restaurant and \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 5\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nfour at a chain B restaurant in San Diego. After the Washington outbreak was \nreported, reviews of medical records at five hospitals revealed an overall 27% \nincrease in visits or admissions for diarrhea during December 1992 and January \n1993 compared with the same period 1 year earlier. A case was defined as \npostdiarrheal HUS, bloody diarrhea that was culture negative or not cultured, \nor any diarrheal illness in which stool culture yielded E. coli O157:H7, with \nonset from November 15, 1992, through January 31, 1993. \n Illnesses of 34 patients met the case definition (Figure 2B). The \noutbreak strain was identified in stool specimens of six patients. Fourteen \npersons were hospitalized, seven developed HUS, and one child died. The median \nage of case-patients was 10 years (range: 1-58 years). A case-control study of \nthe first 25 case-patients identified and age- and sex-matched community \ncontrols implicated eating at a chain A restaurant in San Diego (matched \nOR=13; 95% confidence interval CI=1.7-99). A study comparing case-patients \nwho ate at chain A restaurants with well meal companions implicated regular-\nsized hamburger patties (matched OR=undefined; lower confidence limit=1.3). \nChain B was not statistically associated with illness. Nevada \n On January 22, after receiving a report of a child with HUS who had eaten \nat a local chain A restaurant, the Clark County (Las Vegas) Health District \nissued a press release requesting that persons with recent bloody diarrhea \ncontact the health department. A case was defined as postdiarrheal HUS, bloody \ndiarrhea that was culture negative or not cultured, or any diarrheal illness \nwith a stool culture yielding the Washington strain of E. coli O157:H7, with \nonset from December 1, 1992, through February 7, 1993. Because local \nlaboratories were not using sorbitol MacConkey (SMAC) medium to screen stools \nfor E. coli O157:H7, this organism was not identified in any patient. After \nSMAC medium was distributed, the outbreak strain was detected in the stool of \none patient 38 days after illness onset. \n Of 58 persons whose illnesses met the case definition (Figure 2C), nine \nwere hospitalized; three developed HUS. The median age was 30.5 years (range: \n0-83 years). Analysis of the first 21 patients identified and age- and sex-\nmatched community controls implicated eating at a chain A restaurant during \nthe week preceding illness onset (matched OR=undefined; lower confidence \nlimit=4.9). A case-control study using well meal companions of case-patients \nalso implicated eating hamburgers at chain A (matched OR=6.0; 95% CI=0.7-\n49.8). Other Investigation Findings \n During the outbreak, chain A restaurants in Washington linked with cases \nprimarily were serving regular-sized hamburger patties produced on November \n19, 1992; some of the same meat was used in \"jumbo\" patties produced on \nNovember 20, 1992. The outbreak strain of E. coli O157:H7 was isolated from 11 \nlots of patties produced on those two dates; these lots had been distributed \nto restaurants in all states where illness occurred. Approximately 272,672 \n(20%) of the implicated patties were recovered by the recall. \n A meat traceback by a CDC team identified five slaughter plants in the \nUnited States and one in Canada as the likely sources of carcasses used in the \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 6\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\ncontaminated lots of meat and identified potential control points for reducing \nthe likelihood of contamination. The animals slaughtered in domestic slaughter \nplants were traced to farms and auctions in six western states. No one \nslaughter plant or farm was identified as the source. \n Further investigation of cases related to secondary transmission in \nfamilies and child day care settings is ongoing. \n\nReported by: M Davis, DVM, C Osaki, MSPH, Seattle-King County Dept of Public \nHealth; D Gordon, MS, MW Hinds, MD, Snohomish Health District, Everett; K \nMottram, C Winegar, MPH, Tacoma-Pierce County Health Dept; ED Avner, MD, PI \nTarr, MD, Dept of Pediatrics, D Jardine, MD, Depts of Anesthesiology and \nPediatrics, Univ of Washington School of Medicine and Children's Hospital and \nMedical Center, Seattle; M Goldoft, MD, B Bartleson, MPH; J Lewis, JM \nKobayashi, MD, State Epidemiologist, Washington Dept of Health. G Billman, MD, \nJ Bradley, MD, Children's Hospital, San Diego; S Hunt, P Tanner, RES, M \nGinsberg, MD, San Diego County Dept of Health Svcs; L Barrett, DVM, SB Werner, \nMD, GW Rutherford, III, MD, State Epidemiologist, California Dept of Health \nSvcs. RW Jue, Central District Health Dept, Boise; H Root, Southwest District \nHealth Dept, Caldwell; D Brothers, MA, RL Chehey, MS, RH Hudson, PhD, Div of \nHealth, Idaho State Public Health Laboratory, FR Dixon, MD, State \nEpidemiologist, Div of Health, Idaho Dept of Health and Welfare. DJ Maxson, \nEnvironmental Epidemiology Program, L Empey, PA, O Ravenholt, MD, VH Ueckart, \nDVM, Clark County Health District, Las Vegas; A DiSalvo, MD, Nevada State \nPublic Health Laboratory; DS Kwalick, MD, R Salcido, MPH, D Brus, DVM, State \nEpidemiologist, Div of Health, Nevada State Dept of Human Resources. Center \nfor Food Safety and Applied Nutrition, Food and Drug Administration. Food \nSafety Inspection Svc, Animal and Plant Health Inspection Svc, US Dept of \nAgriculture. Div of Field Epidemiology, Epidemiology Program Office; Enteric \nDiseases Br, Div of Bacterial and Mycotic Diseases, National Center for \nInfectious Diseases, CDC. \n\nEditorial Note: E. coli O157:H7 is a pathogenic gram-negative bacterium first \nidentified as a cause of illness in 1982 during an outbreak of severe bloody \ndiarrhea traced to contaminated hamburgers (2). This pathogen has since \nemerged as an important cause of both bloody diarrhea and HUS, the most common \ncause of acute renal failure in children. Outbreak investigations have linked \nmost cases with the consumption of undercooked ground beef, although other \nfood vehicles, including roast beef, raw milk, and apple cider, also have been \nimplicated (3). Preliminary data from a CDC 2-year, nationwide, multicenter \nstudy revealed that when stools were routinely cultured for E. coli O157:H7 \nthat organism was isolated more frequently than Shigella in four of 10 \nparticipating hospitals and was isolated from 7.8% of all bloody stools, a \nhigher rate than for any other pathogen. \n Infection with E. coli O157:H7 often is not recognized because most \nclinical laboratories do not routinely culture stools for this organism on \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 7\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nSMAC medium, and many clinicians are unaware of the spectrum of illnesses \nassociated with infection (4). The usual clinical manifestations are diarrhea \n(often bloody) and abdominal cramps; fever is infrequent. Younger age groups \nand the elderly are at highest risk for clinical manifestations and \ncomplications. Illness usually resolves after 6-8 days, but 2%-7% of patients \ndevelop HUS, which is characterized by hemolytic anemia, thrombocytopenia, \nrenal failure, and a death rate of 3%-5%. \n This report illustrates the difficulties in recognizing community \noutbreaks of E. coli O157:H7 in the absence of routine surveillance. Despite \nthe magnitude of this outbreak, the problem may not have been recognized in \nthree states if the epidemiologic link had not been established in Washington \n(1). Clinical laboratories should routinely culture stool specimens from \npersons with bloody diarrhea or HUS for E. coli O157:H7 using SMAC agar (5). \nWhen infections with E. coli O157:H7 are identified, they should be reported \nto local health departments for further evaluation and, if necessary, public \nhealth action to prevent further cases. \n E. coli O157:H7 lives in the intestines of healthy cattle, and can \ncontaminate meat during slaughter. CDC is collaborating with the U.S. \nDepartment of Agriculture's Food Safety Inspection Service to identify \ncritical control points in processing as a component of a program to reduce \nthe likelihood of pathogens such as E. coli O157:H7 entering the meat supply. \nBecause slaughtering practices can result in contamination of raw meat with \npathogens, and because the process of grinding beef may transfer pathogens \nfrom the surface of the meat to the interior, ground beef is likely to be \ninternally contaminated. The optimal food protection practice is to cook \nground beef thoroughly until the interior is no longer pink, and the juices \nare clear. In this outbreak, undercooking of hamburger patties likely played \nan important role. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has issued interim \nrecommendations to increase the internal temperature for cooked hamburgers to \n155 F (86.1 C) (FDA, personal communication, 1993). \n Regulatory actions stimulated by the outbreak described in this report \nand the recovery of thousands of contaminated patties before they could be \nconsumed emphasize the value of rapid public health investigations of \noutbreaks. The public health impact and increasing frequency of isolation of \nthis pathogen underscore the need for improved surveillance for infections \ncaused by E. coli O157:H7 and for HUS to better define the epidemiology of E. \ncoli O157:H7. \n\nReferences\n\n1. CDC. Preliminary report: foodborne outbreak of Escherichia coli O157:H7 \ninfections from hamburgers --western United States, 1993. MMWR 1993;42:85-6. \n\n2. Riley LW, Remis RS, Helgerson SD, et al. Hemorrhagic colitis associated \nwith a rare Escherichia coli serotype. N Engl J Med 1983;308:681-5. \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 8\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n\n3. Griffin PM, Tauxe RV. The epidemiology of infections caused by Escherichia \ncoli O157:H7, other enterohemorrhagic E. coli, and the associated hemolytic \nuremic syndrome. Epidemiol Rev 1991;13:60-98. \n\n4. Griffin PM, Ostroff SM, Tauxe RV, et al. Illnesses associated with \nEscherichia coli O157:H7 infections: a broad clinical spectrum. Ann Intern Med \n1988;109:705-12. \n\n5. March SB, Ratnam S. Latex agglutination test\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 9\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n Use of Smokeless Tobacco Among Adults -- United States,\n 1991\n =======================================================\n SOURCE: MMWR 42(14) DATE: Apr 16, 1993\n\n Consumption of moist snuff and other smokeless tobacco products in the \nUnited States almost tripled from 1972 through 1991 (1). Long-term use of \nsmokeless tobacco is associated with nicotine addiction and increased risk of \noral cancer (2) -- the incidence of which could increase if young persons who \ncurrently use smokeless tobacco continue to use these products frequently (1). \nTo monitor trends in the prevalence of use of smokeless tobacco products, \nCDC's 1991 National Health Interview Survey-Health Promotion and Disease \nPrevention supplement (NHIS-HPDP) collected information on snuff and chewing \ntobacco use and smoking from a representative sample of the U.S. civilian, \nnoninstitutionalized population aged greater than or equal to 18 years. This \nreport summarizes findings from this survey. \n The 1991 NHIS-HPDP supplement asked \"Have you used snuff at least 20 \ntimes in your entire life?\" and \"Do you use snuff now?\" Similar questions were \nasked about chewing tobacco use and cigarette smoking. Current users of \nsmokeless tobacco were defined as those who reported snuff or chewing tobacco \nuse at least 20 times and who reported using snuff or chewing tobacco at the \ntime of the interview; former users were defined as those who reported having \nused snuff or chewing tobacco at least 20 times and not using either at the \ntime of the interview. Ever users of smokeless tobacco included current and \nformer users. Current smokers were defined as those who reported smoking at \nleast 100 cigarettes and who were currently smoking and former smokers as \nthose who reported having smoked at least 100 cigarettes and who were not \nsmoking now. Ever smokers included current and former smokers. Data on \nsmokeless tobacco use were available for 43,732 persons aged greater than or \nequal to 18 years and were adjusted for nonresponse and weighted to provide \nnational estimates. Confidence intervals (CIs) were calculated by using \nstandard errors generated by the Software for Survey Data Analysis (SUDAAN) \n(3). \n In 1991, an estimated 5.3 million (2.9%) U.S. adults were current users \nof smokeless tobacco, including 4.8 million (5.6%) men and 533,000 (0.6%) \nwomen. For all categories of comparison, the prevalence of smokeless tobacco \nuse was substantially higher among men. For men, the prevalence of use was \nhighest among those aged 18-24 years (Table 1); for women, the prevalence was \nhighest among those aged greater than or equal to 75 years. The prevalence of \nsmokeless tobacco use among men was highest among American Indians/Alaskan \nNatives and whites; the prevalence among women was highest among American \nIndians/Alaskan Natives and blacks. Among both men and women, prevalence of \nsmokeless tobacco use declined with increasing education. Prevalence was \nsubstantially higher among residents of the southern United States and in \nrural areas. Although the prevalence of smokeless tobacco use was higher among \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 10\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nmen and women below the poverty level, * this difference was significant only \nfor women (p less than 0.05) (Table 1). \n Among men, the prevalence of current use of snuff was highest among those \naged 18-44 years but varied considerably by age; the prevalence of use of \nchewing tobacco was more evenly distributed by age group (Table 2). Although \nwomen rarely used smokeless tobacco, the prevalence of snuff use was highest \namong those aged greater than or equal to 75 years. \n An estimated 7.9 million (4.4% 95% CI=4.1-4.6) adults reported being \nformer smokeless tobacco users. Among ever users, the proportion who were \nformer smokeless tobacco users was 59.9% (95% CI=57.7-62.1). Among persons \naged 18-24 years, the proportion of former users was lower among snuff users \n(56.2% 95% CI=49.4-63.0) than among chewing tobacco users (70.4% 95% \nCI=64.2-76.6). Among persons aged 45-64 years, the proportion of former users \nwas similar for snuff (68.9% 95% CI=63.1-74.7) and chewing tobacco (73.5% \n95% CI=68.9-78.1). \n Among current users of smokeless tobacco, 22.9% (95% CI=19.9-26.0) \ncurrently smoked, 33.3% (95% CI=30.0-36.5) formerly smoked, and 43.8% (95% \nCI=39.9-47.7) never smoked. In comparison, among current smokers, 2.6% (95% \nCI=2.3-3.0) were current users of smokeless tobacco. \n Daily use of smokeless tobacco was more common among snuff users (67.3% \n95% CI=63.2-71.4) than among chewing tobacco users (45.1% 95% CI=40.6-\n49.6). \n\nReported by: Office on Smoking and Health, National Center for Chronic Disease \nPrevention and Health Promotion; Div of Health Interview Statistics, National \nCenter for Health Statistics, CDC. \n\nEditorial Note: The findings in this report indicate that the use of smokeless \ntobacco was highest among young males. Adolescent and young adult males, in \nparticular, are the target of marketing strategies by tobacco companies that \nlink smokeless tobacco with athletic performance and virility. Use of oral \nsnuff has risen markedly among professional baseball players, encouraging this \nbehavior among adolescent and young adult males and increasing their risk for \nnicotine addiction, oral cancer, and other mouth disorders (4). \n Differences in the prevalence of smokeless tobacco use among \nracial/ethnic groups may be influenced by differences in educational levels \nand socioeconomic status as well as social and cultural phenomena that require \nfurther explanation. For example, targeted marketing practices may play a role \nin maintaining or increasing prevalence among some groups, and affecting the \ndifferential initiation of smokeless tobacco use by young persons (5,6). \n In this report, one concern is that nearly one fourth of current \nsmokeless tobacco users also smoke cigarettes. In the 1991 NHIS-HPDP, the \nprevalence of cigarette smoking was higher among former smokeless tobacco \nusers than among current and never smokeless tobacco users. In a previous \nstudy among college students, 18% of current smokeless tobacco users smoked \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 11\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\noccasionally (7). In addition, approximately 7% of adults who formerly smoked \nreported substituting other tobacco products for cigarettes in an effort to \nstop smoking (8). Health-care providers should recognize the potential health \nimplications of concurrent smokeless tobacco and cigarette use. \n The national health objectives for the year 2000 have established special \npopulation target groups for the reduction of the prevalence of smokeless \ntobacco use, including males aged 12-24 years (to no more than 4% by the year \n2000 objective 3.9) and American Indian/Alaskan Native youth (to no more \nthan 10% by the year 2000 objective 3.9a) (9). Strategies to lower the \nprevalence of smokeless tobacco use include continued monitoring of smokeless \ntobacco use, integrating smoking and smokeless tobacco-control efforts, \nenforcing laws that restrict minors' access to tobacco, making excise taxes \ncommensurate with those on cigarettes, encouraging health-care providers to \nroutinely provide cessation advice and follow-up, providing school-based \nprevention and cessation interventions, and adopting policies that prohibit \ntobacco use on school property and at school-sponsored events (5). \n\nReferences\n\n1. Office of Evaluations and Inspections. Spit tobacco and youth. Washington, \nDC: US Department of Health and Human Services, Office of the Inspector \nGeneral, 1992; DHHS publication no. (OEI-06)92-00500. \n\n2. National Institutes of Health. The health consequences of using smokeless \ntobacco: a report of the Advisory Committee to the Surgeon General. Bethesda, \nMaryland: US Department of Health and Human Services, Public Health Service, \n1986; DHHS publication no. (NIH)86-2874. \n\n3. Shah BV. Software for Survey Data Analysis (SUDAAN) version 5.30 Software \ndocumentation. Research Triangle Park, North Carolina: Research Triangle \nInstitute, 1989. \n\n4. Connolly GN, Orleans CT, Blum A. Snuffing tobacco out of sport. Am J Public \nHealth 1992;82:351-3. \n\n5. National Cancer Institute. Smokeless tobacco or health: an international \nperspective. Bethesda, Maryland: US Department of Health and Human Services, \nPublic Health Service, National Institutes of Health, 1992; DHHS publication \nno. (NIH)92-3461. \n\n6. Foreyt JP, Jackson AS, Squires WG, Hartung GH, Murray TD, Gotto AM. \nPsychological profile of college students who use smokeless tobacco. Addict \nBehav 1993;18:107-16. \n\n7. Glover ED, Laflin M, Edwards SW. Age of initiation and switching patterns \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 12\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nbetween smokeless tobacco and cigarettes among college students in the United \nStates. Am J Public Health 1989;79:207-8. \n\n8. CDC. Tobacco use in 1986: methods and tabulations from Adult Use of Tobacco \nSurvey. Rockville, Maryland: US Department of Health and Human Services, \nPublic Health Service, CDC, 1990; DHHS publication no. (OM)90-2004. \n\n9. Public Health Service. Healthy people 2000: national health promotion and \ndisease prevention objectives. Washington, DC: US Department of Health and \nHuman Services, Public Health Service, 1991; DHHS publication no. (PHS)91-\n50213.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n--------- end of part 1 ------------\n", "\n\nI am one of those people who always willl have unlimited stores of unfounded\nrespect for people who have been on newsgroups/mailing lists longer than I\nhave, so you certainly have my sympathy Tom. I have only been semi-regularly\nposting (it is TOUGHto keep up) since this February, but I have been reading\nand following the threads since last August: my school's newsreader was down\nfor months and our incompetent computing services never bothered to find a new\nfeed site, so it wasn't accepting outgoing postings. I don't think anyone\nkeeps track of where other posters go: it's that old love 'em and leave 'em\nInternet for you again...\n\n\nbest regards,", "Cool off! These people have as much right to be here as you do.\n(BTW, is this the kind of friendly, helpful service we should\nexpect from Cray?)\n", "------------- cut here -----------------\n \n ONCE A YEAR...FOR A LIFETIME VIDEO KIT. This kit\n includes a 25-minute VHS videotape that presents common\n misconceptions about mammography. It tells of the\n benefits gains by the early detection of breast cancer.\n Jane Pauley and Phylicia Rashad are the narrators. Kit\n includes a guide, poster, flyer, and pamphlets on\n mammography. This kit is available directly by writing\n to: Modern, 5000 Park Street North, St. Petersburg, FL\n 33709-9989.\n \n \n \nADDITIONAL RESOURCES\n \n \n COMBINED HEALTH INFORMATION DATABASE (CHID). A computerized\n bibliographic database developed and managed by agencies of\n the U.S. Public Health Service. It contains references to\n health information and health education resources. The\n database provides bibliographic citations and abstracts for\n journal articles, books, reports, pamphlets, audiovisuals,\n product descriptions, hard-to-find information sources, and\n health promotion and education programs under way in state\n and local health departments and other locations. In\n addition, CHID provides source and availability information\n for these materials, so that users may obtain them directly.\n \n At present, there are twenty-one subfiles on CHID. The\n National Cancer Institute created the Cancer Patient\n Education subfile in 1990. It serves as a resource for the\n CHID user who is interested in identifying patient education\n programs for specific cancer patient populations, as well as\n for the user who is trying to locate educational resources\n available for patient or family cancer education. Citations\n include the contact person at cancer centers, so the user\n can follow up directly with the appropriate person.\n \n To access CHID, check with your local library. Most medical\n school, university, hospital, and public libraries subscribe\n to commercial database vendors.\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 28\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n \n FINAL REPORT: AN INTEGRATED ONCOLOGY WORKSTATION (revised\n 5/92). This book provides a conceptual overview of what a\n clinical information system for practicing oncologists might\n include: a database of electronic patient chart records\n combined with access to a knowledge base of information\n resources such as PDQ, CANCERLIT, and MEDLINE--an\n integration of data and knowledge combined to create a\n clinical \"oncology workstation.\" The concept was developed\n as a means to assist the oncologist and his or her office\n staff in the daily management of patient care and clinical\n trials. This book can be obtained by contacting: Dr.\n Robert Esterhay, Project Officer, Computer Communications\n Branch, Building 82, Room 201, Bethesda, MD 20892.\n \n SCIENTIFIC INFORMATION SERVICES OF THE NATIONAL CANCER\n INSTITUTE. (91-2683). This booklet from the International\n Cancer Information Center (ICIC) describes each ICIC product\n or service, including scientific journals (Journal of the\n National Cancer Institute and NCI Monographs), specialized\n current awareness publications (CANCERGRAMS, and ONCOLOGY\n OVERVIEWS), and online databases (PDQ and CANCERLIT). To\n obtain copies of the booklet, write to: International Cancer\n Information Center, Dept. JJJ, National Cancer Institute,\n Bldg. 82, Rm. 123, Bethesda, Maryland 20892 or fax your\n request to 301-480-8105.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 29\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n Publications for Patients Available from the NCI (1/93)\n \nFree copies of the following patient education materials are available (in \nsingle copy or bulk) by calling the NCI's Publication Ordering Service, 1-800-\n4-CANCER. \n \n \nCANCER PREVENTION\n \n CHEW OR SNUFF IS REAL BAD STUFF. This brochure, designed\nfor seventh and eighth graders, describes the health and social\neffects of using smokeless tobacco products. When fully opened,\nthe brochure can be used as a poster.\n \n CLEARING THE AIR: A GUIDE TO QUITTING SMOKING. This\npamphlet, designed to help the smoker who wants to quit, offers a\nvariety of approaches to cessation. [24 pages]\n \n DIET, NUTRITION & CANCER PREVENTION: THE GOOD NEWS. This\nbooklet provides an overview of dietary guidelines that may\nassist individuals in reducing their risks for some cancers. It\nidentifies certain foods to choose more often and others to\nchoose less often in the context of a total health-promoting\ndiet. [16 pages]\n \n WHY DO YOU SMOKE? This pamphlet contains a self-test to\ndetermine why people smoke and suggests alternatives and\nsubstitutes that can help them stop.\n \n \nEARLY DETECTION\n \n \n BREAST EXAMS: WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW. This pamphlet provides\nanswers to questions about breast cancer screening methods,\nincluding mammography, the medical checkup, breast self-\nexamination, and future technologies. Includes instructions for\nbreast self-examination. [10 pages]\n \n CANCER TESTS YOU SHOULD KNOW ABOUT: A GUIDE FOR PEOPLE 65\nAND OVER. This pamphlet describes the cancer tests important for\npeople age 65 and older. It informs men and women of the exams\nthey should be requesting when they schedule checkups with their\ndoctors. It provides a checklist for men and women to record\nwhen the cancer tests occur, and it describes the steps to follow\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 30\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\nshould cancer be found. [14 pages]\n \n DO THE RIGHT THING: GET A MAMMOGRAM. This brochure targets\nblack women age 40 or older. It describes the importance of\nregular mammograms in the early detection of breast cancer. It\nstates the NCI guidelines for mammography.\n \n ONCE A YEAR FOR A LIFETIME. This brochure targets all women\nage 40 or older. It describes the importance of regular\nmammograms in the early detection of breast cancer. It states\nthe NCI guidelines for mammography.\n \n QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ABOUT BREAST LUMPS. This pamphlet\ndescribes some of the most common noncancerous breast lumps and\nwhat can be done about them. Includes instructions for breast\nself-examination. [22 pages]\n \n QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ABOUT CHOOSING A MAMMOGRAPHY FACILITY.\nThis brochure lists questions to ask in selecting a quality\nmammography facility. Also discusses typical costs and coverage.\n \n TESTICULAR SELF-EXAMINATION. This pamphlet contains\ninformation about risks and symptoms of testicular cancer and\nprovides instructions on how to perform testicular self-\nexamination.\n \n THE PAP TEST: IT CAN SAVE YOUR LIFE! This easy-to-read\npamphlet tells women the importance of getting a Pap test. It\nexplains who should request one, how often it should be done, and\nwhere to go to get a Pap test.\n \n \nGENERAL\n \n \n RESEARCH REPORTS. In-depth reports covering current\nknowledge of the causes and prevention, symptoms, detection and\ndiagnosis, and treatment of various types of cancer. Individual\nreports are available on the following topics:\n \n Bone Marrow Transplantation\n Cancer of the Colon and Rectum\n Cancer of the Lung\n Cancer of the Pancreas\n Melanoma\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 31\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n Oral Cancers\n \n THE IMMUNE SYSTEM - HOW IT WORKS. This booklet, written at\na high school level, explains the human immune system for the\ngeneral public. It describes the sophistication of the body's\nimmune responses, the impact of immune disorders, and the\nrelation of the immune system to cancer therapies present and\nfuture. [28 pages]\n \n \n WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT CANCER. This series of\npamphlets discusses symptoms, diagnosis, treatment, emotional\nissues, and questions to ask the doctor. Includes glossary of\nterms and other resources. Individual pamphlets are available on\nthe following topics:\n \n Bladder\n Bone\n Brain\n Breast\n Cervix\n Colon and Rectum\n Dysplastic Nevi\n Esophagus\n Hodgkin's Disease\n Kidney\n Larynx\n Lung\n Melanoma\n Multiple Myeloma\n Non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma\n Oral Cancers\n Ovary\n Pancreas\n Prostate\n Skin\n Testis\n Uterus\n \n \nPATIENT EDUCATION\n \n ANTICANCER DRUG INFORMATION SHEETS IN SPANISH/ENGLISH. Two-\nsided fact sheets (in English and Spanish) provide information\nabout side effects of common drugs used to treat cancer, their\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 32\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\nproper usage, and precautions for patients. The fact sheets were\nprepared by the United States Pharmacopeial Convention, Inc., for\ndistribution by the National Cancer Institute. Single sets only\nmay be ordered.\n \n ADVANCED CANCER: LIVING EACH DAY. This booklet addresses\ncoping with a terminal illness by discussing practical\nconsiderations for the patient, the family, and friends. [30\npages]\n \n CHEMOTHERAPY AND YOU: A GUIDE TO SELF-HELP DURING\nTREATMENT. This booklet, in question-and-answer format, addresses\nproblems and concerns of patients receiving chemotherapy.\nEmphasis is on explanation and self-help. [64 pages]\n \n EATING HINTS: RECIPES AND TIPS FOR BETTER NUTRITION DURING\nCANCER TREATMENT. This cookbook-style booklet includes recipes\nand suggestions for maintaining optimum nutrition during\ntreatment. All recipes have been tested. [92 pages]\n \n FACING FORWARD: A GUIDE FOR CANCER SURVIVORS. This booklet\npresents a concise overview of important survivor issues,\nincluding ongoing health needs, psychosocial concerns, insurance,\nand employment. Easy-to-use format includes cancer survivors'\nexperiences, practical tips, recordkeeping forms, and resources.\nIt is recommended for cancer survivors, their family, and\nfriends. [43 pages]\n \n PATIENT TO PATIENT: CANCER CLINICAL TRIALS AND YOU. This\n15-minute videocassette provides simple information for patients\nand families about the clinical trials process (produced in\ncollaboration with the American College of Surgeons Commission on\nCancer).\n \n QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ABOUT PAIN CONTROL: A GUIDE FOR\nPEOPLE WITH CANCER AND THEIR FAMILIES. This booklet discusses\npain control using both medical and nonmedical methods. The\nemphasis is on explanation, self-help, and patient participation.\nThis booklet is also available from the American Cancer Society.\n[44 pages]\n \n RADIATION THERAPY AND YOU: A GUIDE TO SELF-HELP DURING\nTREATMENT. This booklet addresses concerns of patients receiving\nforms of radiation therapy. Emphasis is on explanation and\nself-help. [52 pages]\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 33\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n \n TAKING TIME: SUPPORT FOR PEOPLE WITH CANCER AND THE PEOPLE\nWHO CARE ABOUT THEM. This sensitively written booklet for\npersons with cancer and their families addresses the feelings and\nconcerns of others in similar situations and how they have coped.\n[68 pages]\n \n WHAT ARE CLINICAL TRIALS ALL ABOUT? This booklet is\ndesigned for patients who are considering taking part in research\nfor new cancer treatments. It explains clinical trials to\npatients in easy-to-understand terms and gives them information\nthat will help them decide about participating. [24 pages]\n \n WHEN CANCER RECURS: MEETING THE CHALLENGE AGAIN. This\nbooklet details the different types of recurrence, types of\ntreatment, and coping with cancer's return. [28 pages]\n \n \nBREAST CANCER EDUCATION SERIES\n \n BREAST BIOPSY: WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW. This booklet\n discusses biopsy procedures. It describes what to expect in\n the hospital and while awaiting a diagnosis. [16 pages]\n \n BREAST CANCER: UNDERSTANDING TREATMENT OPTIONS. This\n booklet summarizes the biopsy procedure and examines the\n pros and cons of various types of breast surgery. It\n discusses lumpectomy and radiation therapy as primary\n treatment, adjuvant therapy, and the process of making\n treatment decisions. [19 pages]\n \n MASTECTOMY: A TREATMENT FOR BREAST CANCER. This booklet\n presents information about the different types of breast\n surgery. It explains what to expect in the hospital and\n during the recovery period following breast cancer surgery.\n Breast self-examination for mastectomy patients is also\n described. [25 pages]\n \n AFTER BREAST CANCER: A GUIDE TO FOLLOWUP CARE. This\n booklet is for the woman who has completed treatment. It\n explains the importance of checking for possible signs of\n recurring cancer by receiving regular mammograms, getting\n breast exams from a doctor, and continuing monthly breast\n self-exams. It offers advice for managing the physical and\n emotional side effects that may accompany surviving breast\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 34\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n cancer. [15 pages]\n \n PEDIATRIC CANCER EDUCATION SERIES\n \n HELP YOURSELF: TIPS FOR TEENAGERS WITH CANCER. This\n magazine-style booklet is designed to provide information\n and support to adolescents with cancer. Issues addressed\n include reactions to diagnosis, relationships with family\n and friends, school attendance, and body image. [37 pages]\n \n HOSPITAL DAYS, TREATMENT WAYS. This hematology-oncology\n coloring book helps orient the child with cancer to hospital\n and treatment procedures. [26 pages]\n \n MANAGING YOUR CHILD'S EATING PROBLEMS DURING CANCER\n TREATMENT. This booklet contains information about the\n importance of nutrition, the side effects of cancer and its\n treatment, ways to encourage a child to eat, and special\n diets. [32 pages]\n \n TALKING WITH YOUR CHILD ABOUT CANCER. This booklet is\n designed for the parent whose child has been diagnosed with\n cancer. It addresses the health-related concerns of young\n people of different ages; it suggests ways to discuss\n disease-related issues with the child. [16 pages]\n \n WHEN SOMEONE IN YOUR FAMILY HAS CANCER. This booklet is\n written for young people whose parent or sibling has cancer.\n It includes sections on the disease, its treatment, and\n emotional concerns. [28 pages]\n \n YOUNG PEOPLE WITH CANCER: A HANDBOOK FOR PARENTS.\n This booklet discusses the most common types of childhood\n cancer, treatments and side effects, and issues that may\n arise when a child is diagnosed with cancer. Offers medical\n information and practical tips gathered from the experience\n of others. [86 pages]\n \n \nSPANISH LANGUAGE PUBLICATIONS\n \nSi desea hablar con un especialista en informacion sobre el\ncancer, por favor llame al 1-800-422-6237 (1-800-4-CANCER).\n \nCANCER PREVENTION\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 35\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n \n A TIME OF CHANGE/DE NINA A MUJER. This bilingual fotonovela\n was developed specifically for young women. It discusses\n various health promotion issues such as nutrition, no\n smoking, exercise, and pelvic, Pap, and breast examinations.\n [34 pages]\n \n DATOS SOBRE EL HABITO DE FUMAR Y RECOMENDACIONES PARA DEJAR\n DE FUMAR. This bilingual pamphlet describes the health\n risks of smoking and tips on how to quit and how to stay\n quit. [8 pages]\n \n GUIA PARA DEJAR DE FUMAR. This booklet is a full-color,\n self-help smoking cessation booklet prepared specifically\n for Spanish-speaking Americans. It was developed by the\n University of California, San Francisco, under an NCI\n research grant. [36 pages]\n \n \nEARLY DETECTION\n \n HAGASE LA PRUEBA PAP: HAGALO HOY...POR SU SALUD Y SU\n FAMILIA. This bilingual brochure tells women why it is\n important to get a Pap test. It gives brief, clear\n information about who needs a Pap test, where to go to get\n one, and how often the Pap test should be done.\n \n HAGASE UN MAMOGRAMA: UNA VEZ AL ANO...PARA TODA UNA VIDA.\n This bilingual brochure describes the importance of\n mammograms in the early detection of breast cancer. It\n gives brief information about who is at risk for breast\n cancer, how a mammogram is done, and how to get one.\n \n LA PRUEBA PAP: UN METODO PARA DIAGNOSTICAR CANCER DEL CUELLO\n DEL UTERO. This booklet in Spanish answers questions about\n the Pap test, including how often it should be done,\n significance of results, and other diagnostic tests and\n treatments. [16 pages]\n \n LO QUE USTED DEBE SABER SOBRE LOS EXAMENES DE LOS SENOS.\n This booklet in Spanish explains the importance of the three\n actions recommended by the NCI to detect breast cancer as\n early as possible: requesting regular mammography, getting\n an annual breast exam from the doctor, and performing a\n monthly breast self-exam. [6 pages]\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 36\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n \n PREGUNTAS Y RESPUESTAS SOBRE LA SELECCION DE UN CENTRO DE\n MAMOGRAFIA. This brochure lists questions and answers to\n ask in selecting a quality mammography facility.\n \nPATIENT EDUCATION\n \n ANTICANCER DRUG INFORMATION SHEETS IN SPANISH/ENGLISH. Two-\n sided fact sheets (in English and Spanish) provide\n information about side effects of common drugs used to treat\n cancer, their proper usage, and precautions for patients.\n The fact sheets were prepared by the United States\n Pharmacopeial Convention, Inc., for distribution by the\n National Cancer Institute. Single sets only may be ordered.\n \n DATOS SOBRE EL TRATAMIENTO DE QUIMIOTERAPIA CONTRA EL\n CANCER. This flyer in Spanish provides a brief introduction\n to cancer chemotherapy. [12 pages]\n \n EL TRATAMIENTO DE RADIOTERAPIA: GUIA PARA EL PACIENTE\n DURANTE EL TRATAMIENTO. This booklet in Spanish addresses\n the concerns of patients receiving radiation therapy for\n cancer. Emphasis is on explanation and self-help. [48\n pages]\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 37\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n\n\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n AIDS News Summaries\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n\n AIDS Daily Summary for April 19 to April 23, 1993 \n\n The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) National AIDS \nClearinghouse makes available the following information as a public service \nonly. Providing this information does not constitute endorsement by the CDC, \nthe CDC Clearinghouse, or any other organization. Reproduction of this text \nis encouraged; however, copies may not be sold. Copyright 1993, Information, \nInc., Bethesda, MD \n\n ================================================================= \n April 19, 1993 \n ================================================================= \n \"Absence of HIV Transmission From an Infected Orthopedic Surgeon\" Journal of \nthe American Medical Association (04/14/93) Vol. 269, No. 14, P. 1807 (von \nReyn, C. Fordham) \n\n The risk of HIV transmission from an HIV-positive surgeon to patient is \nextremely low, provided that the surgeon strictly adheres to universal \ninfection control procedures, write C. Fordham von Reyn et al. of the \nDartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center in Lebanon, N.H. The researchers contacted \n2,317 former patients on whom an HIV-positive orthopedic surgeon performed \ninvasive procedures between January 1, 1978 and June 30, 1992. The \northopedic surgeon voluntarily withdrew from practice after testing positive \nfor HIV. A total of 1,174 former patients underwent HIV testing, \nrepresenting 50.7 percent of patients on whom the orthopedic surgeon \nperformed invasive procedures during the 13.5-year period. Patients were \ntested from each year and from each category of invasive procedure. All \npatients were found to be negative for HIV by enzyme-linked-immunosorbent \nassay. Two former patients reported known HIV infection prior to surgery. \nThe examination of AIDS case registries and vital records neglected to detect \ncases of HIV infection among former surgical patients. The estimated cost of \nthe initial patient notification and testing was $158,000, with the single \nmost expensive activity being counseling and testing. This accounted for 37 \npercent of the total expense. The patient notification and testing were \nconducted while maintaining the confidentiality of the orthopedic surgeon who \nwas an active participant in the planning and execution of the study. \nNotifying patients of the infected surgeon's HIV-status is both disruptive \nand expensive and is not routinely recommended, the researchers conclude. \\ \n ================================================================= \n\"Investigation of Potential HIV Transmission to the Patients of an HIV-\nInfected Surgeon\" Journal of the American Medical Association (04/14/93) Vol. \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 38\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n269, No. 14, P. 1795 (Smith Rogers, Audrey et al.) \n\n The risk of HIV transmission during surgery is so remote that it will be \nquantified only by gathering data from multiple, methodologically similar \ninvestigations, writes Audrey Smith Rogers et al. of the Johns Hopkins \nUniversity School of Medicine in Baltimore, Md. The researchers identified a \ntotal of 1,131 persons in hospital databases who underwent invasive surgical \nprocedures between 1984 and 1990 and for whom the HIV-positive surgeon was \nlisted as the operating surgeon. The AIDS case registries were reviewed for \nall patients having undergone invasive procedures and death certificates were \nobtained. Among the 1,131 patients, 101 were dead, 119 had no address, 413 \nhad test results known, and 498 did not respond to the questionnaire. No \nstudy patient name was found in reported AIDS case registries. One newly \ndetected, HIV-positive patient was determined to have been most probably \ninfected in 1985 during a transfusion. There was no HIV transmission in 369 \nperson-hours of surgical exposure, suggesting that HIV transmission to \npatients is unlikely to occur more frequently than once per 1000 person-hours \nof surgical exposure. The researchers determined there is no evidence to \nsuggest that the surgeon failed to adhere to standard infection-control \nguidelines; over 50 percent of the patients with invasive procedures chose to \nbe tested, and of those whose results were revealed, only one person was \nfound to be infected with HIV. The study patient's infection was probably \nthe result of a tainted blood transfusion received in 1985. As a result, \nthere is no evidence that the transmission of HIV from the HIV-positive \nsurgeon to any patient transpired, the researchers conclude. \n ==================================================================\n April 20, 1993 \n ==================================================================\n \"Drug Concerns to Share AIDS Data\" New York Times (04/20/93), P. C10 \n(Kolata, Gina) \n\n A total of 15 major pharmaceutical companies have decided, in a highly \nunusual move, to share AIDS drugs and information while the drugs are \nundergoing early clinical testing. Dr. Edward Scolnick, president of the \nMerck Research Laboratory in Rahway, N.J., arranged the collaboration. He \nsaid that cooperation between companies seemed increasingly significant as it \nhad become clear that combinations of drugs were likely to be more effective \nin fighting HIV than any drug used alone. The researchers are hopeful that \nHIV, when faced with a combination of several drugs requiring mutation at \ndifferent sites for resistance to develop, will be unable to evolve all the \nmutations at the same time. Therefore, several drugs taken together or one \nafter the other could halt the spread of HIV. Currently, the drug companies \ndo not know what other drugs their competitors are developing. The new \nagreement allows companies to routinely exchange animal data and safety data \non new AIDS drugs. \"An agreement like this will greatly facilitate \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 39\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\ncompanies' ability to choose the best drug combinations much faster and in a \nmuch more efficient way,\" said Scolnick. He also said that the \ncollaboration would not violate antitrust laws. In creating the agreement, \nMerck spoke frequently to members of AIDS advocacy groups, including ACT-UP. \nDr. Daniel Hoth, director of the division on AIDS at the National Institute \nof Allergy and Infectious Disease said, \"We're delighted to see the \npharmaceutical industry take this step because we think that increasing the \ninformation flow will likely accelerate the discovery of better compounds for \nAIDS.\" Related Stories: Wall Street Journal (04/20) P. B1; Philadelphia \nInquirer (04/20) P. A3; USA Today (04/20) P. 1B \n================================================================== \n\"The Next Step in AIDS Treatment\" Nature (04/08/93) Vol. 362, No. 6420, P. 493 \n(Maddox, John) \n\n Although AZT was found to be ineffective in prolonging the lives of \npeople infected with HIV, the findings do not indicate that AZT should not be \nadministered in people with full-blown AIDS, writes columnist John Maddox. \nAZT has been used in the United States in asymptomatic HIV-positive people on \nthe basis that administration of the drug appeared to abate the decline of \nT-cell counts. However, a report in the Lancet demonstrated that AZT should \nnot be used early in the course of disease. While the CD4 counts of the 877 \npeople given AZT were consistently greater than those of patients receiving \nonly placebo, the first three years of follow-up have shown that the \nproportions of people in the two groups progressing to overt AIDS or even to \ndeath were not significantly different at roughly 18 percent. The \nconclusions are that AZT is not an effective AIDS drug in HIV-infected \nindividuals, and that CD4 cell count may not be a reliable proxy for the \nprogression to AIDS in infected people. But nothing is implied by the study \nof the utility of AZT in the treatment of those in whom symptoms have already \nappeared--there is no case for abandoning that treatment, at least on the \nevidence now available. It is much more alarming that the CD4 count has \nproven to be an unreliable mark of the efficacy of drug treatment in HIV \ninfection. AIDS researchers should acknowledge HIV is alive from the \nbeginning of infection and turn it into a workable assay of the progress of \ndisease. The general application of such an assay will probably in itself \nprovide a better understanding of the pathogenesis of AIDS, concludes \nMaddox. \n ================================================================== \n\"Infective and Anti-Infective Properties of Breastmilk From HIV-1-Infected \nWomen\" Lancet (04/10/93) Vol. 341, No. 8850, P. 914 (Van de Perre, Philippe \net al.) \n\n A vaccine preparation inducing a persistent immune response of the IgM \ntype in the mother's body fluids could be valuable to prevent transmission of \nHIV-1 from mother to child, write Philippe Van de Perre et al. of the \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 40\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\nNational AIDS Control Program in Kigali, Rwanda. The researchers hypothesized \nthat transmission of HIV-1 through breastmilk could be favored by the \npresence of infected cells, by deficiency of anti-infective substances in \nbreastmilk, or both factors. A total of 215 HIV-1-infected women were \nenrolled at delivery in Kigali, Rwanda; milk samples were collected 15 days, 6 \nmonths, and 18 months post partum. HIV-1 IgG, secretory IgA, and IgM were \nassayed by western blot, for the latter two after removal of IgG with \nprotein G. In the 15-day and 6-month samples, the researchers sought viral \ngenome in milk cells by double polymerase chain reaction with three sets of \nprimers (gag, pol, and env). At 15 days, 6 months, and 18 months post \npartum, HIV-1 specific IgG was detected in 95 percent, 98 percent, and 97 \npercent of breastmilk samples; IgA in 23 percent, 28 percent, and 41 percent; \nand IgM in 66 percent, 78 percent, and 41 percent. In children who survived \nlonger than 18 months the risk of infection was associated with lack of \npersistence of IgM and IgA in their mothers' milk. The presence of HIV-1-\ninfected cells in the milk 15 days post partum was strongly predictive of \nHIV-1 infection in the child by both univariate and multivariate analysis. \nThe combination of HIV-1 infected cells in breastmilk and a defective IgM \nresponse was the strongest predictor of infection. IgM and IgA anti-HIV-1 in \nbreastmilk may protect against postnatal transmission of HIV, the researchers \nconclude. \n ================================================================== \n April 21, 1993 \n ================================================================== \n\"Firms to Share AIDS Research in Global Venture\" Journal of Commerce \n(04/21/93), P. 7A \n\n A total of fifteen U.S. and European pharmaceutical companies announced \nTuesday they will swap drug supplies and information on early-stage AIDS \nresearch to hasten the search for combination therapies to fight HIV \ninfection and AIDS. The companies said the unusual move resulted primarily \nfrom the increasing concentration of AIDS research on combination therapies \nsince realizing that HIV is likely to develop resistance to every individual \nAIDS drug. Edward Scolnick, president of Merck & Co. Research Laboratories, \nled the collaborative effort that took a year of negotiations to come \ntogether, said participants. In addition to Merck, the other companies \ninvolved in the Inter-Company Collaboration for AIDS Drug Development are \nBristol-Myers Squibb Co., Burroughs Wellcome, Glaxo Inc., Hoffman-La Roche, \nEli Lilly & Co., Pfizer Inc., Smithkline Beecham, AB Astra, Du Pont Merck, \nSyntex Inc., Boehringer Ingelheim, Miles Inc., and Sigma-Tau. The \nparticipants said that all companies involved in AIDS drug development they \nwere aware of had joined the collaboration, and that any company actively \ninvolved in HIV anti-viral development may participate. Scolnick said the \ncollaborators would most likely meet every couple of months for a daylong \nscientific meeting where they will review for one another their preclinical \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 41\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\nand early clinical data. The American Foundation for AIDS Research (AmFAR) \nwas pleased with the news of the collaboration, which it hopes will lead to \nthe development of drug combinations that will reduce viral resistance. \nRelated Story: Financial Times (04/21) P. 1 \n================================================================== \n\"Guidance Over HIV-Infected Health-Care Workers\" Lancet (04/10/93) Vol. 341, \nNo. 8850, P. 952 (Horton, Richard) \n\n The United Kingdom's Department of Health recently followed the advice \nof AIDS experts that there is no scientific reason for routine HIV testing \namong health-care workers. Following recent highly publicized reports of \nhealth professionals who contracted HIV, the department issued revised \nguidelines on the management of such cases. Dr. Kenneth Calman, Chief \nMedical Officer, said doctors, dentists, nurses, and other health-care \nworkers have an ethical duty to seek advice if they have been exposed to HIV \ninfection, including, if appropriate, diagnostic HIV testing. He said, \n\"Infected health care workers should not perform invasive procedures that \ncarry even a remote risk of exposing patients to the virus.\" The guidelines \n--------- end of part 3 ------------\n", "So, I begin my 6 week sabbatical in about 15 minutes. Six wonderful weeks\nof riding, and no phones or email.\n\nI won't have any way to check mail (or setup a vacation agent, no sh*t!), \nthough I can dial in and get newsfeed, (dont ask), so if there are any \noutstanding CFC's or such things,please try my compuserve address:\n\n72517.3356@compuserve.com\n\nAnybody wants to do some WEEKDAY rides around the BA, send me a mail\nto above or post here.\n\nI'll be thinking about all of you stuck if front of your\nterminals......\"Sheeyaahhh, and monkeys might fly out of my butt...\"\nride safe,\ndave\n\n\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\n Sense AIN'T common....\n\nDave Warner Opinions unlikely to be shared\nAMA 687955/HOG 0588773/DoD 870\t by my employer or anyone else\ndwarner@sceng.ub.com _Signature on file_ \ndwarner@milo.ub.com 72517.3356@compuserve.com \n'93 FXSTS '71 T120 (Stolen)\n", "\n\nand so on.\n\nsee my response in comp.dcom.modems.....all of your answers are there.\n\nbtw, next time, if you must cross-post into other groups, CROSS-POST\ninstead of posting multiple copies. that way, only one copy of your\narticle must be transmitted by the network, and only one copy is stored\non people's disks (except in the case of brain-damaged news software).\n\n --jim\n\n--\n#include 73 DE N5IAL (/4)\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nINTERNET: jim@n5ial.mythical.com | j.graham@ieee.org ICBM: 30.23N 86.32W\nAMATEUR RADIO: n5ial@w4zbb (Ft. Walton Beach, FL) AMTOR SELCAL: NIAL", "Hi. \nI have a friend who is interested in subscribing to this newsgroup.\nUnfortunatly she does not have usenet access. If someone could send\nher a faq and info on how to subscribe, we'd be very appreciative If\nyou want to send it to me, you can and I will get it to her. I do not\nread this newsgroup regularly though so e-mail please.\nThank you\nJody\n-- \n\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nJody Rebecca\t\tColby College\t\tMajors: History/Sociology\n\t\t\tClass o' '94 \nE-Mail: jrgould@colby.edu\n\t samuel@paul.rutgers.edu\n\nFantasy, Music, Colors, and Animals will lead this society out of oppression.\n", "\n\n\nWell ...\nHave a look at a new journal: Journal of Experimental Mathematics\nIt has several Fields medallists on its editorial board.\nYou want to knwo more?\nTry Klaus Peters in Boston or David Epstein at Warwick .\n", "\n\n\nNo, obviously talking about Research Assistants. I favor a high protein,\nlow fat diet, barely adequate salary on a fixed time schedule, four hours\nof sleep a night, continuous infusion of latte, unpredictable praise \nmixed randomly with anxiety-provoking, everpresent glances with \nlowered eyebrows, unrealistic promises of rapid publication, and \nevery three months a dinner consisting of nothing but microbrewery ale\nand free pretzels. Actually, mine hails from San Diego, and indeed \nhas more problems in Seattle in cold weather than in warm.", "\n\nYou should post his/her email request, with proper attributes, of course, to\nthe newsgroup. The request then becomes a matter of rec.moto public record\nand warrants the ceremonial gang-FAQing.\n\nGlad to help,\nRide safe,\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------", "Does anyone know of any recent information on the Frescoe work being\ndone by the Consortium? I've seen the short description that was \npublished in The X Resource, but am looking for something with a bit\nmore depth to it.\n", "\nVery good point. Is there someone out there that is working on this?\nI'd offer my time to help manage/do it all myself but yaw'll are not\ngoing to hear from me over the summer. I'm not trying to be pushy,\nand there is being progress made (re: pov mailing list).\n\n-hed\n", "Could someone out there please tell me how I could get onto\nthe Saab mailing list. Specifically I need the address and\ninstructions on what to do.\n\nThanks in advance", "\nI certainly like this \"Option C\"... It's much more like the original\nPhase B studies from the early 1970's. Good stuff!\n", "\nDoes this organization have an official e-mail address these\ndays? (an address for any of the SF Bay Area Lodges, e.g. Thelema\nwould do.)\n 93...\n A.Lizard\n", "unsubscribe\n\n\n", "Does anyone have a schedule of Kol Israel broadcasts in different\nlanguages that could be posted or e-mailed to me. Your\nassistance would be greatly appreciated", "C A L L F O R V O T E\n-------------------------\n \nThis is the official Call For a Vote on the creation of 3 newsgroups\nfor those engaged or interested in all areas relating to the\nPUBLISHING OF ANY SORT OF CDROM MATERIAL. Please repost this CFV to any\nnewsgroup, listserver or reflector that you think might have a\ngroup interested in this subject in order to reach as broad an\naudience as possible. Every vote counts, so make sure you register\nyours if you want these groups to be created.\n\n \nProposed Groups\n---------------\ncomp.publish.cdrom.hardware\ncomp.publish.cdrom.software\ncomp.publish.cdrom.multimedia\n \nStatus\n------\nUnmoderated.\n \n\nVoting Period\n-------------\nFrom: The appearance of this posting\nTo: 23:59 EST, 21 May 1993\n\nHow To Vote\n-----------\nAll votes must be emailed to: manaster@yu1.yu.edu\nor sent as a reply to the originator of this CFV (manaster@yu1.yu.edu). \n\n-To vote, simply copy the example below and delete either the \"Yes\"\nor the \"No\" before each group to register your vote for or against\nthe creation of that group. A line containing \"Yes/No\" as in the\nexample below, will be considered an abstention with respect to\nthat particular group. Note that each group will have its own\nseparate vote count and that you may split your vote for the groups\nor abstain as you will. Please provide your Name and E-mail address\nas shown in the example below.\n\n\t\tEmail your vote following this\n\t\texample.....\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\nSubject: Re: Vote on comp.publish.cdrom.*\n\t\nI vote \"Yes/No\" for the creation of \"comp.publish.cdrom.software\"\nI vote \"Yes/No\" for the creation of \"comp.publish.cdrom.hardware\"\nI vote \"Yes/No\" for the creation of \"comp.publish.cdrom.multimedia\"\n\n\t[Last Name], [First Name] [(E-mail Address)]\n\t.\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nVoting Rules\n------------\n-Only one vote per user (Two different people cannot vote under the\n same user name).\n-Any votes which are received before or after the voting period\n will be discarded.\n-Anyone who wants to change their previous vote may do so by voting\n again. They must indicate that they have previously voted and are\n changing their mind in a footnote. A changed vote will discard your\n previous vote.\n-Email messages sent to the above addresses must constitute unambiguous\n and unconditional votes for/against newsgroup creation as proposed.\n Conditional votes will not be accepted.\n-Only votes emailed to the above addresses will be counted; mailed\n replies to this posting will be discarded.\n-In the event that more than one vote is placed by an individual, only\n the first vote will be counted unless it was changed as above.\n-No information will be supplied as to how people are voting until the\n final acknowledgment is made at the end, at which time the full vote\n will be made public.\n\nAmbiguous Votes\n---------------\nAmbiguous votes -- those who do not follow the specified format, or \ndo not make clear the voter's intent, will, where possible, be \nreturned to their senders for clarification. Ambiguous votes which \ncannot be returned to their senders or for which no clarification is \nprovided will be identified in the final vote tally.\n\nEvery Vote Counts........Feel free to Flood my mail!!!\n\n\nRationale\n---------\nThe rationale for this proposal is a need for those interested or\ninvolved in the publishing of cdrom materials to have a forum for\nthe discussion relating to their needs. At the moment the main fora\nfor such discussion are in alt.cd-rom and comp.multimedia neither\nof which have publishing as their focus. Some lists serve the\ngeneral cdrom community with focuses on library, government and\nnetwork usage, and until several weeks ago none were devoted \nto publishing (CDPub has just been setup). In any case a list is not,\nand ought not, be a replacement for regular usenet newsgroups.\n \nThe reason for the division into three groups is a natural\npartition of interest between the hardware and software topics,\nand between the two main focal points of software, i.e. fulltext\nand multimedia publishing. Topics such as CDROM XA, CDI, CD-R, \nPhoto CD and other related formats would be included as well. \nTopics related to cdrom publishing that are neither clearly\nhardware or software related such as books, copyright issues and\nother legal matters, packaging, distribution, could be included in\nthe purvue of comp.publish.cdrom.software, as would any other\nnonhardware or multimedia topic that relates in some way to cdrom\npublishing, in any format, and is appropriate to the Internet.\n \nThe main focus of comp.publish.cdrom.software would be topics such as\nindex and retrieval software, premastering software, cdrom\nsimulation software, hypertext, sgml, scanning and imaging\nsoftware, data capture software, data clean up, compression,\nencryption etc as relates to publishing cdroms.\n \nThe main focus of comp.publish.cdrom.multimedia would be software that\naids in the multimedia authoring and publishing process - audio and\nvideo.\n \nThe main focus of comp.publish.cdrom.hardware would be hardware that\nrelates to cdrom publishing, as well as hardware for data capture,\nsuch as all sorts of scanners and data capture hardware, as well as\ninformation that publishers need to know about the hardware that\nthe intended enduser will utilize (the hardware that will\neventually play the published cdrom) including networks for cdrom.\n \nNotes\n-----\nThese groups are not to be used for topics such as reviews or\nquestions relating to already published cdroms or reviews or\nquestions relating to general purpose cdrom drives and the like.\nRequests for help in installing a cdrom drive and other general\ntopics should be directed to other fora. Questions about cdroms\nmounted on LANs should be directed to bit.listserv.cdromlan.\n \nCharter\n-------\n \nProposed Charter -- COMP.PUBLISH.CDROM.SOFTWARE\n \nThe USENET newsgroup, comp.publish.cdrom.software, will be a newsgroup for \ndiscussion of the following example topics, but not limited to them:\n \n\tIndex and retrieval software\n \n\tAuthoring software\n \n\tScanning and imaging software\n \n\tOCR and OCR cleanup\n \n\tHypertext\n \n\tSGML\n \n\tPremastering and Simulation (cdrom) software\n \n\tCopyright and legal issues related to publishing cdroms\n \n\tOther nonhardware topics related to cdrom publishing\n \nProposed Charter -- COMP.PUBLISH.CDROM.HARDWARE\n \nThe USENET newsgroup, comp.publish.cdrom.hardware, will be a newsgroup for \ndiscussion of the following example topics, but not limited to them:\n \n\tCD-R equipment\n \n\tData capture hardware\n \n\tScanners\n \n\tVideo and audio capture hardware\n \n\tNetworking hardware\n \n\tMidi hardware\n \n\tPhoto CD hardware\n \n\tPublishing systems\n \n\tCDI and DVI hardware\n \n\tCompression and encryption hardware\n \n\tKeyboarding\n \n\tOther hardware publishing topics\n \nProposed Charter -- COMP.PUBLISH.CDROM.MULTIMEDIA\n \nThe USENET newsgroup, comp.publish.cdrom.multimedia will be a newsgroup for \ndiscussion of the following example topics, but not limited to them:\n \n\tMultimedia authoring software\n \n\tImaging software\n \n\tAudio and Midi software\n \n\tColor control software\n \n\tVideo editing software\n \n\tAudio editing software\n \n\tMultimedia utilities useful for publishers\n \n\tIntegration of text, image, audio and video\n \n\tCompression and encryption of multimedia\n \n\tMultimedia copyright and related legal issues\n \n\tMultimedia databases and hypertext\n \n\tOther multimedia publishing topics", "\nYou are in the village. Many happy returns! Be seeing you!", "-- \njamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu\nJames Miller", "I'm looking for the address to join the Cleveland Sports Mailing List.\nIf anyone knows it, I would be greatful if they could email a copy of\nit to me. If you are a member, just mail me one of the List's letters.\nI could probably figure it out from there.\n\nThanks!\n\n\n", "It worked!!!\nThank you very much!\n", "\nSure thing. Here are the FIrstClass systems in those area codes:\n\nMacValley Online\t \tBurbank, CA\t\t\t \t(818) 840-0518\nThe Drawing Board\t \tHacienda Heights, CA\t (818) 965-6241\nBPS\t\t\t\t\t\t Hollywood, CA\t\t \t(213) 874-1919\nSanGabriel Valley MUG \t Pasadena, CA\t\t \t(818) 790-5426\n\nAnd here is all of California (unformated, sorry):\n\nMiddle Earth\t\t\tAnaheim, CA\t\t\t\t(714) 828-9758\nByte Out of The Apple\tBenecia, CA\t\t\t\t(707) 747-0306\nPlanet BMUG\t\t\t\tBerkley, CA\t\t\t\t(510) 849-2684\nMacValley Online\t\tBurbank, CA\t\t\t\t(818) 840-0518\nGentle Rain Forum\t\tClaremont, CA\t\t\t(909) 593-6144\nCyberSpace BBS\t\t\tCulver City, CA\t\t\t(310) 568-9184\n* AllNet\t\t\t\tCupertino, CA\t\t\t(408) 736-2607\nThe Boy's Club \t\tCupertino, CA\t\t\t(408) 261-8331\nMeme Net\t\t\t\tFresno, CA\t\t\t\t(209) 431-6363\nSierra Mouse Trap\t\tGrass Valley, CA\t\t(916) 265-9739\nThe Drawing Board\t\tHacienda Heights, CA\t(818) 965-6241\nThe Public BBS\t\t\tHalf Moon Bay, CA\t\t(415) 726-3587\nBPS\t\t\t\t\t\tHollywood, CA\t\t\t(213) 874-1919\nImagine-NET\t\t\t\tIrvine, CA\t\t\t\t(714) 660-7738\neNet\t\t\t\t\tLa Canada, CA\t\t\t(818) 952-6609\nGuerilla Symbiotics\t\tLa Verne, CA\t\t\t(909) 593-6862\nMacrocosm\t\t\t\tLivermore, CA\t\t\t(510) 449-1648\nOneNet\t\t\t\t\tLos Altos, CA\t\t\t(415) 948-1349\nMacIsland\t\t\t\tLos Angeles, CA\t\t\t(310) 476-2299\nMacShasta\t\t\t\tMt. Shasta, CA\t\t\t(916) 926-4854\nFoundation\t\t\t\tNewhall, CA\t\t\t\t(805) 255-7237\nSanGabriel Valley MUG\tPasadena, CA\t\t\t(818) 790-5426\nGooey BBS\t\t\t\tPoint Mugu, CA\t\t\t(805) 986-1216\nServant Christian BBS\tRedondo Beach, CA\t\t(310) 371-2770\nSBAMUG\t\t\t\t\tRedondo Beach, CA\t\t(310) 792-8083\nA-1 EZ OK\t\t\t\tSan Diego, CA\t\t\t(619) 693-1575\nThis is not empTV?\t\tSan Diego, CA\t\t\t(619) 450-1590\nHarry's BBS\t\t\t\tSan Francisco, CA\t\t(415) 824-7809\nBare Bones BBS\t\t\tSan Jose, CA\t\t\t(408) 272-2173\nCity Connection\t\t\tSan Jose, CA\t\t\t(408) 272-3332\nMacDaze\t\t\t\t\tSanta Barbara, CA\t\t(805) 964-6320\nMac Magic\t\t\t\tSanta Barbara, CA\t\t(805) 682-1737\nCrumal's Dimension\t\tSanta Clara, CA\t\t\t(408) 246-7854\nCasa del Cyborg\t\t\tSanta Cruz, CA\t\t\t(408) 457-2595\nBeacon Comminque'\t\tSimi Valley, CA\t\t\t(805) 522-9602\nChannel Z\t\t\t\tSimi Valley, CA\t\t\t(805) 581-4975\nJake and the Mac Man\tSolona Beach, CA\t\t(619) 775-2142\nIguana BBS\t\t\t\tSunnyvale, CA\t\t\t(408) 733-8626\nVIZability\t\t\t\tWalnut Creek, CA\t\t(510) 210-0800\n\n- Jason", "Hi all,\n\n I'm trying to get mailing addresses for the following\ncompanies. Specifically, I need addresses for their personnel\noffices or like bureau. The companies are:\n\n\t- AMROC\n\t- Orbital Sciences Corp. (sp?)\n\t- Spacehab, Inc. (I know this one is somewhere in \n\t\t \t Seattle, WA, or at least part of it is.)\n\t- Space Industries, Inc. (Somewhere in Houston)\n\t- Space Enterprises Inc.\n\nIf anybody could point me in the right direction on this, I\nwould be most appreciative. I prefer an email response, but I\nwill post a summary if sufficient interest exists.\n\nThanks,", "\n\n\n\nDon't you think it would be better to E-mail back to you that we read sci.space\nso that you can count them and every server in the world does not have to get\nBW'd to death. Or instead you could possible cut and past all the senders into\na single post and save on header bandwidth.... Not meaning to be taken as a \nflame it's late and we have to work toward a demo .... little punchy\n-- ", "I want to start of list for Syclone and Typhoon owners. If you are interested\nin participating, please contact me via e-mail.", "(Dear Moderator: Would you add this to the BCC faq?)\n\nIn case there are any ex-members of the \"Boston Church of Christ\"\nlooking for a support organization, here's the number of \"BostonEX\" in\nBurlington, MA: 617-272-1955.\n\n--------\n\ns.r.c readers in New England may be interested in seeing a series of\nnews reports about the BCC in the 6 pm nightly news on Channel 5\n(WCVB, Boston), for the next few days (starting Wed, 5/19).", "1993 Andrew Tutorial \n and \n Technical Conference \n\n\nWhen: Thursday and Friday, June 24 and 25, 1993 \n (Deadline for Registration: June 4, 1993) \n\nWhere: Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. \n\nSponsor: Andrew Consortium of CMU's School of Computer Science. \n\nSchedule: The Tutorial will be on Thursday, followed by dinner and the\n Annual Meeting. The Conference proper will be on Friday. All\n Conference attendees are welcome at the Annual Meeting. \n\n Wednesday, June 23 \n\n Check in: After 4:00 PM \n Informal Reception: 7:30 PM \n\n Thursday, June 24 \n\n Tutorial: 9:00 A.M. - 5:00 PM \n Conference Dinner: 6:30 PM \n Annual meeting: 8:00 PM \n\n Friday, June 25 \n\n Technical Conference: 9:00 AM - 5:00 PM \n\nCost: \n Tutorial fee includes breaks, lunch and tutorial materials: $100 \n Conference fee includes conference dinner, breaks and proceedings: $100 \n Rooms (student housing): $50 / night \n\nHousing is tight around the campus area, so please register soon. If you \nprefer to stay in off-campus housing, please contact us for suggestions. \nMary Anne Cowden will be handling registration. You can contact her by\nemail, mc8b+@andrew.cmu.edu, or by phone, (412) 268-6710. \n\f Registration Form \n\nPlease complete the attached form and return it to: \n\nMary Anne Cowden \nAndrew Consortium Technical Conference \nCarnegie Mellon University \nSmith Hall 106 \n5000 Forbes Avenue \nPittsburgh, PA 15213-3890 \n\n <- cut along here -> \n- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -\n- - - - - - - - - - - - \n\n\n\nName: ______________________________________________ \n\nAddress: \t______________________________________________ \n\n\t\t______________________________________________ \n\nOrganization: \t______________________________________________ \n\nEmail: ______________________________________________ \n\nPhone: ______________________________________________ \n\n\n\n\nTutorial\t\t$ ___________ $100 \nConference\t\t$ ___________ $100 \nHousing\t\t$ ___________ $50/night \n\n\tTOTAL ENCLOSED $ ___________ \n", "\n\n\nWould you mind posting the responses you get?\nI am also interested, and there may be others.\n\nThanks,", "][bozo posts GIFS to rec.moto]\n]>he and his postmaster are also gonna get 500 copies of the post in their \n]>mailboxes.\n]\n] Hey, it's a great picture. You can't fault his taste, only his\n]technique. Chill out and educate instead of getting your panties in a\n]bunch.\n\nditto to you Dave. I'm using the picture as the bacground on my sun, and\nI haven't sent a single message to the guy. looks like you get to keep the\npanties.\n\n-- \nJoe Senner -- joe@Rider.Cactus.Org Austin, TX", "Request for Information\n\nI have been reading about an organisation called \"WinWord Developer's Relations\nGroup\". I believe they have produced publications called WinWord Software\nDevelopment Kit (or WordBasic SDK) and 'The Proceedings of the Windows\nDevelopers' Tools Conference, WordBasic' sessions assembled by Steve Wexler.\n\nWould you be able to help me with a contact name and address for this\norganisation or these publications.\n\nThank you\n\n", "\n\t\t......@compuserve.com", "Count me interested in a Cardinal's mailing list. If anyone\nfinds one or starts one, please let me know.\n\nThanks,\n\nDick Detweiler", "\nApologies... Your mail is probably in the pile that arrived just before\nI got sick about a month ago... A reply will appear eventually...\n\n\nSo far, there have been none (unless you count an interview in The Amateur\nComputerist about the history of netnews, which may be disqualified because\nTAC's budget doesn't run to reproducing photos...).", "\nThere is just something disconcerting about the name of this group. :)\n\n", "Anyone interesting in a mailing list for Harley-Davidson bikes, lifestyle,\npolitics, H.O.G. and whatever over 310 members from 14 countries make it,\nmay subscribe by sending a request to:\n\n harley-request@thinkage.on.ca\n or uunet.ca!thinkage!harley-request\n\n***\n* Your request to join should have a signature or something giving your full\n* Email address. Do not RELY on the header \"From:\" field being useful to me.\n*\n* This is not an automated \"listserv\" facility. Do not expect instant\n* gratification.\n***\n\nThe list is a digest format scheduled for twice a day.\n\nMembers of the harley list may obtain back-issues and subject-index\n listings, pictures, etc. via an Email archive server. \nServer access is restricted to list subscribers only.\nFTP access \"real soon\".\n\nOther motorcycle related lists i've heard of (not run by me),\n these addresses may or may not be current:\n\n 2-stroke: 2strokes-request@microunity.com\n Dirt: dirt-request@zygot.ati.com\n European: listserv@frigg.isc-br.com\n Racing: race-request@formula1.corp.sun.com\n digest-request@formula1.corp.sun.com\n Short Riding: short-request@smarmy.sun.com\n Wet Leather: listserv@frigg.isc-br.com\n", "\n\nContact: WATCHMAN FELLOWSHIP\n P.O. Box 171194\n Holladay, UT 84117-1194", "I noticed you post in comp.graphics and know a person with your name. I was\nwondering if you used to live in Paxton Mass. If so, I have a friend that\nwould like to say HI.\n\n\nSorry for the inconvience if this isn't who I think it is.\n", "Is this newsgroup archived anywhere beyond the normal expiration\ndates, say for the last 6 months or more?", "I'd like to thank everyone and anyone who sent me information\nto help me with my project. \n\n\n\n_______ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ \n--| |- | | | | / /\\ \\ | |\\ \\ | | \\ \\/ /\n | | | -- | / -- \\ | | \\ \\ | | \\ / \n | | | __ | / ----- \\ | | \\ \\| | / /\\ \\ \n |_| |__| |__| /__/ \\__\\ |_| \\____| /__/ \\_\\\n\n\n\nI'll send my report to all who requested a copy!\n", "\tI believe SI had an in-depth article on Moe a while ago. I remember\n\tthat the article revealed some new facts regarding the secretive\n\tMoe. My SI subscription expired this past February, the second of\n\ttwo years that I received same. Therefore my guess is that the\n\tarticle appeared sometime in 1991-92. \n\n\tCan anyone else be more definitive as to a date of the SI article ?\n", "\n +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+\n | Kevin Marshall, Operational Support, Motorola ECID, Swindon, UK. |\n | E-mail : marshalk@zeus |\n | Phone : +44 793 545127 (International) (0793) 545127 (Domestic) |\n +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+\n", "ignore \n\n\n", "\nWhy bother with a new newsgroup? If you want to discuss the subject,\n*start discussing it*. If there is enough traffic to annoy the rest of\nus, we will let you know... and *then* it will be time for a new newsgroup.", "A few days ago there was a posting in this group by Andrea Winkler\ntitled \"X and Security / X Technical Conference\". I was one of the\ninstructors of that tutorial. Unfortunately, my system purged\nthe message before I had a chance to see it, and I don't have\nAndrea's email address. If someone has Andrea's address and/or\nthe posting, I would really appreciate it if you'd forward it to\nme!\n\nThanks\n--Jeremy\n\nJeremy Epstein\t\t\tInternet: epstein@trwacs.fp.trw.com\nTrusted X Research Group\tVoice: +1 703/803-4947\nTRW Systems Division\nFairfax Virginia", "\n\n\n\n\n\nYour wrong. Never give up. Update your program as much as possible, with a\nvery low price of upgrade to registered users (and *PLEASE* make sure you keep\na list of registered numbers!)...\n\n--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGeorge Gruschow Death do you gronk.\nag625@yfn.ysu.edu ggruscho@nyx.cs.du.edu", "Could someone please post any info on these systems.\n\nThanks.\nBoB\n-- \n---------------------------------------------------------------------- \nRobert Novitskey | \"Pursuing women is similar to banging one's head\nrrn@po.cwru.edu | against a wall...with less opportunity for reward\" ", "\nCould someone please send me the postal and email address of\nCongruent Corporation (and any competitors they may have).\n\nThank you.\n-- \nsnail@lsl.co.uk ", "\n****************************************************************\n* ////// ----------------------\n* // // \"Electronic Networking For / PsychNet.Com /\n* ////// \"Professional Psychology.\" /Serving Psychologists/\n* // sychNet (1-800-541-2598) / World Wide /\n*// -----------------------\n************************************************************\n\n\tIt's an experiment, place a not so subliminal, slightly\ncagey message in front of a viewer and see how long it takes to create a response, and what was the response...\n\tIt was the same thing with the \"Blow me\" message, only it had a\nquicker response time...and some unexpected responses along with the\nexpectedly negative ones...\n\tAnyone see how long that took?\n\t\tYours, in jest...\n\t\t\tTom T", "*Reminder* Plan now for the Andrew Conference.\n*Date* The dates are as noted below. (We have not changed them.)\n*Submission extension* We are still accepting papers.\n\n*Tutorial topic* \n\t_Converting Andrew source code to C++_\n\nThis tutorial will discuss the steps necessary to convert a site from C\n(extended with classC) to C++. Conversion of the source code requires\nonly a couple of steps:\n\trun the converter\n\tfill in missing type information\nDescribing this will not take long. The remainder of the day will be\nspent learning how to write objects in C++ and practicing.\n\n------------------------------\n\n1993 Andrew Technical Conference and Consortium Annual Meeting\nJune 24-25, 1993\nCarnegie Mellon University\nPittsburgh, PA\n\nThe conference will be held on the last Thursday and Friday in June. A\ntutorial will be on Thursday the 24th and the conference proper on the\n25th with the annual meeting at the dinner on the evening between the\ntwo days. All conference attendees are welcome at the annual meeting,\nthough only Consortium members will be able to vote.\n\nThis year's theme is \n\n\tApplication Construction by Non-Programmers\n\nMuch of the effort on X toolkits has been aimed at programmer\nconstruction of applications. There have, however, been some excellent\nUIMS systems built on top of X. Papers addressing the theme will\nconsider questions such as\n\tWhat is needed for application construction by non-programmers?\n\tCan we avoid programming altogether, or is a simple language needed?\n\tIs it sufficient to create applications, or must users be able to\ncreate new widgets?\n\tShould widgets and applications be able to print themselves?\n\nYour participation in the conference is welcome. Papers are appropriate\non the theme or any aspect of the Andrew User Interface System, including\n\n\tapplications\n\texperience with users\n\tnew objects\n\treviews of and proposals for revision of \n\t\tinternal Andrew protocols\n\nWe expect to have an RS/6000 with video projector available if you would\nlike to do a demonstration. \n\nPaper proposals should be submitted by 15 May 1993.\nAcceptance will be 1 June with final papers due by 15 June.\n\nSend papers via electronic mail to wjh+@andrew.cmu.edu.", "I've done a bit of looking, and havn't been able to \ncome up with a mailing list or newsgroup for users\nof Adobe Photoshop. Assuming I've just not missed\nit, I'll go ahead and see if there is enough interest\nto start a mailing list (and/or alt. newsgroup).\n\nDrop me a note if you might be interested in subscribing.\n\nTHANKS!\n\n--Bob Wier (NOT of the Grateful Dead :-)", "[stuff deleted]\n\nMy company maintains a 20,000+ mailing list which is regularly rented for\none time use by the major software companies. The method you are using to\n\"seed\" your junk mail, isn't really effective. Bulk mailers regulary \neither send their databases to be \"cleaned\" by the NCOA, which if you've\nmoved recently, will revert back to the original \"xxx Cool\", and in large\nmailings, there will likely be a dupe of you, and they'll pick the first, and use the\nothers for future mailings.\n \nBTW, our list is currently one of the hottest lists for actual buyers of\na MS Windows utility product in the $100 range, and is available through\nDirect Media in CT., at $0.10 per name. Please let your direct mail\nmarketing rep. know about this.. Thanks.", "\n[blah blah blah]\n\n\n\nlet's create a new group: rec.autos.CR-is-right-no-its-not-yes-it-is-oh-yeah-\nmy-father-can-lick-your-father-.......\n\n\n:-)\n", "Hi, I'm new to Internet, so this is a bit of a test message, so even a \ntoken reply would be very appreciated.", "Please unsubscribe pancamo@blkbox.com. This user has become inactive and I\nwish to discontinue his participation in this mailing list.", "You can't. But good luck trying.", "Hello everyone. I just wanted to let everyone know that I have just\nbeen selected as part of the Reduction In Force here at Amdahl. For all\nthat are currently in a dialog with me, or are waiting letters from me,\nI have saved your letters on floppy and will continue when I get back\non the net from another account in the future.\n\nFor those who are on the GEnie network, my email address there is:\n\n T.ROSE1\n\nGod Bless and Goodbye until then. If you want to continue dialogs with\nme via US MAIL, I can be contacted at:", "Hi,\nI am not sure where to post this message, please contact me if I'm way off\nthe mark.\nOn 19.3.93 my wife went to her General Practitioner (Doctor). He mentioned\nan article from a medical journal that is of great interest to us. He had\nread it in the previous three months but has been unable to find it again.\nThe article was about Whiplash Injury/Cervical Pain. It mentions the use of\na MRI (Magnetic Resonance Imagery) machine as a diagnostic tool and the work\nof a neurosurgeon who relived cervical pain.\nThis article is most likely in an Australian medical journal. I very much\nwant to obtain the name of the article, journal and author because the case\nmatches my wife. We would very much appreciate anyone's help in this matter\nvia email preferably.\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGavin Anderson email: GAnderson@cmutual.com.au\nAnalyst/Programmer. phone: +61-3-607-6299\nColonial Mutual Life Aust. (ACN 004021809) fax : +61-3-283-1095\n-----------Some people never consciously discover their antipodes----------\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGavin Anderson email: GAnderson@cmutual.com.au\nAnalyst/Programmer. phone: +61-3-607-6299\nColonial Mutual Life Aust. (ACN 004021809) fax : +61-3-283-1095", "\nThis is the fifth request to find out about a Cardinals mailing list.\nIt looks like one does not exist. If anyone has the initiative, \ncreating a list might be a worthwhile activity.", "\n\n \n I'd like any accumulated information on this as well please.\n \n Thanks.\n \n_________________________________________ \n _____ |\n | | | |\n =========== | Baden de Bari |\n | o o | | |\n | ^ | | baden@sys6626.bison.ca |\n | {-} | | baden@inqmind.bison.ca |\n \\_____/ | |", "From article , by baden@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (baden de bari):", "===============================================================================\n \tI'm looking for the E_Mail Address of the Caere Corporation. \n\tTheir Address is:\n\n\tCAERE CORPORATION\n\t100 COOPER COURT\n\tLOS GATOS\n\tCALIFONIA 95030\n\n\tIf you know the address o have access to find it. Please could\n\tyou send it to me. \n\n\tMy E_Mail Address is:\n\n\t\t\n\n\tThanking you in advance,", "\tsubscribe grape@nswses.navy.mil\n", "-- \nPete Norton\npeten@well.sf.ca.us\npeten@holonet.net \nnorton@hou.amoco.com \n", "Contact me for details.\n\n peter@psychnet.psychol.utas.edu.au\n\nPeter\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nP.Tattam International Phone 61-02-202346\nProgrammer, Psychology Department Australia Phone 002-202346\nUniversity of Tasmania, Hobart, Tasmania, Australia", "\n\n\n\nPlease post your response as well. I think many would be \ninterested in this one. Thank You.\n-- ", "\n\n\nCHEERS Brandon. That's the best suggestion I have seen that. !!!", ": ========================================================================\n: Jo Pelkey Phone: (509)375-6947\n: Battelle Pacific Northwest Labs Fax: (509)375-3641\n: Mail Stop K7-22 Email: je_pelkey@pnl.gov\n: P.O. Box 999\n: Richland, WA 99352\n: ========================================================================\n\nHi Jo,\n\nI'm also interested in your questions, so if you get any\nanswers via email and not via repost please let me know.\n\nThanks, rainer.\n", "\n\nTHANKS! It did work, and it is just what I needed thanks...", "fuchs@tsar.princeton.edu (Ira H. Fuchs):\nthe \nthe \nusing ", "Can anyone mail me the address of Houston's Mailing List?\nThanks in advance. \nJ. Scott Smithers\nsmithers@dcseq.uscga.edu\n", "From article , by Steve Frampton :\n\nYes! In the usual ftp sites.", "Eric, send me email with your address, I lost it! I've reconsidered!", "This is an invitation to send articles to the Informatica magazine.\nThe first fully international issue has been published and echoes \nare quite favourable. For any information, contact (matjaz.gams@ijs.si). \n\nDear Colleague, April 25, 1993\n\nNumber 1 of volume 17 of Informatica is now out of print and some of you \nwill receive it in a week or so. As you will see, the journal is structured\nin the following way: the editorial (first page); profiles (second page\n-- biography of an editor, in this issue, Terry Winograd); the edited\npart of papers (pp. 3-80); mission and research reports (A plan for\nknowledge archives project in Japan and CSLI in Stanford, pp. 81-100);\nand news and announcements (pp. 101-108). This structure is mentioned to\ngive you a suggestion how could you help to make the contents of the\njournal significant, diverse, and interesting, bringing your own views\ninto the discourse.\n A great emphasis is given to the so-called editorial page. This page\nexpresses an opinion (belief) of the writing editor to some problems\nwithin the scope of computing and informatics, extending into other\nconcerning disciplines, e.g. cybernetics, advanced AI, cognitive sciences,\nmind, informationally concerned neural sciences, advanced technology \n(e.g. photonics), etc. I asked professor Terry Winograd to write this\npage for Number 2. I certainly would appreciate very much to get\nsuggestions or possible offers from other editors, who like to express\ntheir strong (directed) beliefs concerning a future development of the\narea in question.\n On the second page of each Number an editor's profile is published.\nThe aim of the profile is twofold: to show his/her professional \nachievements, interests, scientific, and philosophical orientation on\none side; to narrate his/her life story in the environments in which\neditors has lived and live on the other side. This kind of story should\nbe instructive, adequately factically faced, contributing to the \nunderstanding of circumstances in which editors have to act and live.\n The edited part (edited papers) is still critical. I would like to have\na stock of accepted papers in advance, so the issuing dates of a particular\nnumber can be fixed (e.g. January, April, July, and October). In situation\nright now, I ask you to help me with contributions of yours or your\ncolleagues, collaborators, students, etc. Some critical views to the\ncontemporary development of computing and informatics are appreciated.\nA special emphasis should be given also to originality by which fresh\nideas are coming into the circulation of different professional communities.\n Reports of different occasions (symposia, conferences, meetings, etc.)\nand particularly on new books, papers, and interesting events are welcome.\nYou can send these news immediately (also by your secretary) by e-mail.\nOn the other hand, you can send books and other publications (annual\nreports, journals, calls for papers, etc.) for reviewing and publishing\nin Informatica. We in the editorial staff will manage the rest.\n E-mail is functioning satisfactorily, so please use it in every respect.\nYou can submit editorial notes, profiles, reports, news and even complete\npapers written in standard LaTex format (especially formulas). We received\nseveral final (corrected) texts in Number 1 from different sites (US,\nRussia, etc.). In this way, you can compose reports from already typed\ntexts, using your own choice and editing, and submit them to the contact\nperson (matjaz.gams@ijs.si), who is always being on your disposal. So,\nyou will receive a prompt confirmation and any information concerning\nour common interest and job.\n\nAt the end, please do not forget: we need your cooperation and help in\nevery mentioned respect. The aim of Informatica is to open various\npossibilities of communication concerning strong scientific and \nphilosophical orientations as well as those coming up, still unrevealed,\nand on the way to become significant. Please, do not apprehend to give\nproposals, suggestions, and, certainly, contributions via the e-mail\nand by other means.\n\nSincerely yours,", "Archive-name: space/net\nLast-modified: $Date: 93/04/01 14:39:15 $\n\nNETWORK RESOURCES\n\nOVERVIEW\n\n You may be reading this document on any one of an amazing variety of\n computers, so much of the material below may not apply to you. In\n general, however, systems connected to 'the net' fall in one of three\n categories: Internet, Usenet, or BITNET. Electronic mail may be sent\n between these networks, and other resources available on one of these\n networks are sometimes accessible from other networks by email sent to\n special 'servers'.\n\n The space and astronomy discussion groups actually are composed of\n several mechanisms with (mostly) transparent connections between them.\n\n One mechanism is the mailing list, in which mail is sent to a central\n distribution point which relays it to all recipients of the list. In\n addition to the general lists for space (called SPACE Digest for\n Internet users, and SPACE on BITNET), there are a number of more\n specialized mailing lists described below.\n\n A second mechanism is Usenet 'netnews'. This is somewhat like a bulletin\n board operating on each system which is a part of the net. Netnews\n separates contributions into hundreds of different categories based on a\n 'group name'. The groups dealing most closely with space topics are\n called 'sci.space.news', 'sci.space', 'sci.space.shuttle', 'sci.astro',\n and 'talk.politics.space'. Contributors 'post' submissions (called\n 'articles' in netnews terminology) on their local machine, which sends\n it to other nearby machines. Similarly, articles sent from nearby\n machines are stored locally and may be forwarded to other systems, so\n that an article is posted locally and eventually reaches all the Usenet\n sites interested in receiving the news group to which the article was\n posted.\n\n Gateway machines redirect the Usenet sci.space group into Internet and\n BITNET mailing lists and vice versa; the other Usenet groups are not\n accessible as mailing lists. If you can receive netnews, its more\n flexible interface and access to a wider range of material usually make\n it the preferred option.\n\nMAILING LISTS\n\n SPACE Digest is the main Internet list, and is now being run by the\n International Space University (in only its second change of management\n in over a decade). Email space-request@isu.isunet.edu (message body\n should be in the format 'subscribe space John Public') to join. Note\n that the moderated SPACE Magazine list is defunct at present for lack of\n a moderator. Old copies of SPACE Digest since its inception in 1981 are\n available by anonymous FTP. Retrieve\n\tjulius.cs.qub.ac.uk:pub/SpaceDigestArchive/README\n for further details.\n\n Elements is a moderated list for fast distribution of Space Shuttle\n Keplerian Elements before and during Shuttle flights. NASA two line\n elements are sent out on the list from Dr. Kelso, JSC, and other sources\n as they are released. Email to elements-request@telesoft.com to join.\n\n GPS Digest is a moderated list for discussion of the Global Positioning\n System and other satellite navigation positioning systems. Email to\n gps-request@esseye.si.com to join.\n\n Space-investors is a list for information relevant to investing in\n space-related companies. Email Vincent Cate (vac@cs.cmu.edu) to join.\n\n Space-tech is a list for more technical discussion of space topics;\n discussion has included esoteric propulsion technologies, asteroid\n capture, starflight, orbital debris removal, etc. Email to\n space-tech-request@cs.cmu.edu to join. Archives of old digests and\n selected excerpts are available by anonymous FTP from\n gs80.sp.cs.cmu.edu (128.2.205.90) in /usr/anon/public/space-tech,\n or by email to space-tech-request if you don't have FTP access.\n\n SEDS-L is a BITNET list for members of Students for the Exploration and\n Development of Space and other interested parties. Email\n LISTSERV@TAMVM1.BITNET with a message saying \"SUBSCRIBE SEDS-L your\n name\". Email saying \"INDEX SEDS-L\" to list the archive contents.\n\n SEDSNEWS is a BITNET list for news items, press releases, shuttle status\n reports, and the like. This duplicates material which is also found in\n Space Digest, sci.space, sci.space.shuttle, and sci.astro. Email\n LISTSERV@TAMVM1.BITNET saying \"SUBSCRIBE SEDSNEWS your name\" to join.\n Email saying \"INDEX SEDSNEWS\" to list the archive contents.\n\n Ron Baalke (baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov) runs a mailing list which\n carries the contents of the sci.space.news Usenet group. Email him\n to join the list.\n\n As a general note, please mail to the *request* address to get off a\n mailing list. SPACE Digest, for example, relays many inappropriate\n 'please remove me from this list' messages which are sent to the list\n address rather than the request address.\n\nPERIODICALLY UPDATED INFORMATION\n\n In addition to this FAQ list, a broad variety of topical information is\n posted to the net (unless otherwise noted, in the new group\n sci.space.news created for this purpose). Please remember that the\n individuals posting this information are performing a service for all\n net readers, and don't take up their time with frivolous requests.\n\n ACRONYMS\n\tGarrett Wollman (wollman@UVM.EDU) posts an acronym list around the\n\tfirst of each month.\n\n ASTRO-FTP LIST\n\tVeikko Makela (veikko.makela@helsinki.fi) posts a monthly list of\n\tanonymous FTP servers containing astronomy and space related\n\tmaterial to sci.space and sci.astro.\n\n AVIATION WEEK\n\tHenry Spencer (henry@zoo.toronto.edu) posts summaries of\n\tspace-related stories in the weekly _Aviation Week and Space\n\tTechnology_.\n\n BUYING TELESCOPES\n\tRonnie Kon (ronnie@cisco.com) posts a guide to buying telescopes to\n\tsci.astro.\n\n ELECTRONIC JOURNAL OF THE ASA\n\tDon Barry (don@chara.gsu.edu) posts the monthly Electronic Journal\n\tof the Astronomical Society of the Atlantic to sci.astro.\n\n FLIGHT INTERNATIONAL\n\tSwaraj Jeyasingh (sjeyasin@axion.bt.co.uk) posts summaries of\n\tspace-related news from _Flight International_. This focuses more on\n\tnon-US space activities than Aviation Week.\n\n LARGE ASTRONOMICAL PROJECTS\n\tRobert Bunge (rbunge@access.digex.com) posts a list describing many\n\t\"Large Telescope Projects Either Being Considered or in the Works\"\n\tto sci.astro.\n\n NASA HEADLINE NEWS & SHUTTLE REPORTS\n\tPeter Yee (yee@ames.arc.nasa.gov) posts a variety of NASA material,\n\tincluding NASA Headline News (with the schedule for NASA SELECT),\n\tshuttle payload briefings and flight manifests, and KSC shuttle\n\tstatus reports. For Usenet users, much of this material appears in\n\tthe group sci.space.shuttle.\n\n NASA UPDATES\n\tRon Baalke (baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov) posts frequent updates from\n\tJPL, Ames, and other centers on the Ulysses, Gailileo, Pioneer,\n\tMagellan, Landsat, and other missions.\n\n ORBITAL ELEMENT SETS\n\tTS Kelso (tkelso@blackbird.afit.af.mil) posts orbital elements from\n\tNASA Prediction Bulletins.\n\n\tMike Rose (mrose@stsci.edu) posts orbital elements for the Hubble\n\tSpace Telescope to sci.astro.\n\n\tJost Jahn (j.jahn@abbs.hanse.de) posts ephemerides for asteroids,\n\tcomets, conjunctions, and encounters to sci.astro.\n\n SATELLITE LAUNCHES\n\tRichard Langley (lang@unb.ca) posts SPACEWARN Bulletin, which\n\tdescribes recent launch/orbital decay information and satellites\n\twhich are useful for scientific activities. Recent bulletins are\n\tavailable by anonymous FTP from nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov in\n\tANON_DIR:[000000.ACTIVE.SPX].\n\n SHUTTLE MANIFEST\n\tKen Hollis (gandalf@pro-electric.cts.com) posts a compressed version\n\tof the Space Shuttle launch manifest to sci.space.shuttle. This\n\tincludes dates, times, payloads, and information on how to see\n\tlaunches and landings.\n\n SOLAR ACTIVITY\n\tCary Oler (oler@hg.uleth.ca) posts Solar Terrestrial reports\n\t(describing solar activity and its effect on the Earth) to\n\tsci.space. The report is issued in part from data released by the\n\tSpace Enviroment Services Center, Boulder Colorado. The intro\n\tdocument needed to understand these reports is available by\n\tanonymous FTP from solar.stanford.edu (36.10.0.4) in\n\tpub/understanding_solar_terrestrial_reports. nic.funet.fi\n\t(128.214.6.100) also has this document in\n\t/pub/misc/rec.radio.shortwave/solarreports and is an archive site\n\tfor the reports (please note this site is in Europe, and the\n\tconnection to the US is only 56KB). A new primary archive site,\n\txi.uleth.ca (142.66.3.29), has recently been established and will be\n\tactively supported.\n\n SOVIET SPACE ACTIVITIES\n\tGlenn Chapman (glennc@cs.sfu.ca) posts summaries of Soviet space\n\tactivities.\n\n SPACE ACTIVIST NEWSLETTER\n\tAllen Sherzer (aws@iti.org) posts a newsletter, \"One Small Step for\n\ta Space Activist,\" to talk.politics.space. It describes current\n\tlegislative activity affecting NASA and commercial space activities.\n\n SPACE EVENTS CALENDAR\n\tRon Baalke (baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov) posts a calendar including\n\tanniversaries, conferences, launch dates, meteor showers and\n\teclipses, and other space-related events.\n\n SPACE NEWS\n\tJohn Magliacane (kd2bd@ka2qhd.UUCP) posts \"SpaceNews\" (covering\n\tAMSATs, NOAA and other weather satellites, and other ham\n\tinformation) to rec.radio.amateur.misc and sci.space.\n\n SPACE REPORT\n\tJonathan McDowell (mcdowell@cfa.harvard.edu) posts \"Jonathan's Space\n\tReport\" covering launches, landings, reentries, status reports,\n\tsatellite activities, etc.\n\n TOWARD 2001\n\tBev Freed (freed@nss.fidonet.org) posts \"Toward 2001\", a weekly\n\tglobal news summary reprinted from _Space Calendar_ magazine.\n\n\nWARNING ABOUT NON-PUBLIC NETWORKS\n\n (Included at the suggestion of Eugene Miya, who wrote the item)\n\n NASA has an internal system of unclassified electronic mail and bulletin\n boards. This system is not open for public use. Specifically, NASA\n personnel and procurement operations are regarded with some sensitivity.\n Contractors must renegotiate their contracts. The Fair and Open\n Procurement Act does not look kindly to those having inside information.\n Contractors and outsiders caught using this type of information can\n expect severe penalities. Unauthorized access attempts may subject you\n to a fine and/or imprisonment in accordance with Title 18, USC, Section\n 1030. If in fact you should should learn of unauthorized access, contact\n NASA personnel.\n\n Claims have been made on this news group about fraud and waste. None\n have ever been substantiated to any significant degree. Readers\n detecting Fraud, Waste, Abuse, or Mismanagement should contact the NASA\n Inspector General (24-hours) at 800-424-9183 (can be anonymous) or write\n\n\tNASA\n\tInspector General\n\tP.O. Box 23089\n\tL'enfant Plaza Station\n\tWashington DC 20024", "Dear Netters:\n\nA new religious newsgroup \"soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya\" was pro-\nposed on Oct 16, 1992. The discussion about this new proposed\nnewsgroup went on in various related groups. The proposal, was\nsupposed to enter a vote during the last week of November 92. Due\nto a false Call For Votes, by some opponent, the voting had to be\ncanceled. I quote here a statement from the moderator of\nnew.announce.newgroups:\n\n\n\"The current Call For Votes (CFV) for an Ahmadiyya newsgroup\n is being canceled. A new call for votes will be issued within\n a few weeks, possibly with a new impartial vote taker. Discus-\n sion on the proposal is still open until the new vote is called...\"\n -- by Lawrence, Nov 20, 1992.\n\n\nA lot of confusion arose among the netter as to whom to vote.\nTherefore it was decided to give a cool down period, so that all\nconfusions are over. It has been over 4 months of that instant\nand now we are again attempting to create this newsgroup. A fresh\nRFD is hereby being issued. Please! take part in the discussion\nunder the same title heading and in \"news.groups\" or at least\ncross-post it to \"news.groups\".\n\n\n****************************************************************\n\n REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION\n\n****************************************************************\n\n\n\nNAME OF PROPOSED NEWSGROUP: \n==========================\n\n soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya\n\n\nCHARTER: \n=======\n\n A religious newsgroup, which would mainly discuss the be-\nliefs, teachings, philosophy and ideologies of all major reli-\ngions of the world as they exist to foster better religious\nknowledge and understanding among followers of all religions as\nthey share common basis. This newsgroup will be devoted to build\na peaceful mutual understanding of the Ahmadiyya branch of\nIslam, its peacefull beliefs, ideology and philosophy and how it\nis different from other branches of Islam in fostering world\npeace and developing better understanding among religious people.\nIt may also be used to post important religious events within the\nWorld Wide Ahmadiyya Islamic Community in general.\n\n\nPURPOSE OF THE GROUP: \n====================\n\n The following are some of the main purposes this group will\n achieve:\n\n i) To discuss the common beliefs of all major religions as\n they relate to Ahmadiyya Muslim Community.\n\n ii) To discuss the doctrines, origin and teachings of this\n puissant spiritual force on earth.\n\n iii) To examine Islamic teachings and beliefs in general in\n light of the Quran and established Islamic traditions\n of 15 centuries from Ahmadiyya perspective.\n\n iv) To discuss the similarities between Ahmadi Muslims and\n people of other Religions of the world and discuss how\n religious tolerance and respect to other's faiths can\n be brought about to eliminate inter-religion rivalries\n and hatred among people of religions. \n\n v) To discuss the origin and teachings of all religions in\n general and Islamic and Ahmadiyya Muslims in particular\n to foster better understanding among Ahmadi Muslims and\n other religious people.\n\n vi) To discuss current world problems and solution to these\n problems as offered by religion.\n\n vii) To exchange important news and views about the Ahmadiyya\n Muslim Community and other Religions.\n\n viii)To add diversity in the religious newsgroups present\n on Usenet.\n\n ix) To discuss why religious persecution is on the rise in\n the world and find solutions to remedy the ever deter-\n iorating situation in the world in general and in the \n Islamic world in particular.\n\n x) To discuss the contributions of founders of all reli-\n gions and their people for humanity, society and world \n peace in general and by the International Ahmadiyya Mus\n -lim Community in particular.\n\n\nTYPE: \n====\n\nThe group will be MODERATED for orderly and free religious dialo-\ngue. The moderation will NOT prevent disagreement or dissent to\nbeliefs, but will mainly be used to prevent derogatory/squalid\nuse of dialect and irrelevant issues. The moderators have been\ndecided through personal e-mail and through a general consensus\namong the proponants by discussion in news.groups. The following\nmoderators have been proposed and agreed upon:\n\nModerator: Nabeel A. Rana (rana@rintintin.colorado.edu) \nCo-Moderator: Dr. Tahir Ijaz (ijaz@ccu.umanitoba.ca)\n\n\n\nA BRIEF DESCRIPTION ABOUT AHMADIYYA/ISLAM:\n=========================================\n\n\n The Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam, an international organi-\nsation, was founder in 1989 in Qadian, India. The founder of this\nsect, Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835-1908), proclaimed to be the\nPromised Reformer of this age as foretold in almost all the major\nreligions of the world today (Islam, Christianity, Judiasm, Hin-\nduism). He claimed to be the long awaited second comming of\nJesus Christ (metaphorically), the Muslim Mahdi, and the Promised\nMessiah. He claimed that the prophecies contained in almost all\nthe great religions of the world about the advent of a messenger\nfrom God have been fulfilled.\n\n The claims Hazrat Ahmad raised storms of hostility and\nextreme oposition from many priestlike people of Muslims, Chris-\ntians, Jews and Hindus of that age. Such opposition is often wit-\nnessed in the history of divine reformers. Even today this sect\nis being persecuted specially in some of the Muslim regimes.\nDispite the opposition and persecution, this sect has won many\nadherents in 130 countries. It has over 10 million followers, who\ncome from a diverse ethnic and cultural background.\n\n The sect is devoted to world peace and in bringing about\na better understanding of religion, and the founders of all reli-\ngions. Its mission is to unite mankind into one Universal broth-\nerhood and develop a better understanding of faith. Ahmadi\nMuslims have always been opposed to all kind of violence and spe-\ncially religious intollerance and fundamentalism.\n\n Among its many philanthropic activities, the sect has es-\ntablished a network of hundreds of schools, hospitals, and clin-\nics in many third world countries. These institutions are staffed\nby volunteer professional and are fully financed by the sect's\ninternal resources.\n\n The Ahmadiyya mission is to bring about a universal moral\nreform, establish peace and justice, and to unite mankind under\none universal religion.\n\n\nNEWSGROUP CREATION: \n==================", "I just bought a 1962 T-BIRD and would like any info on a club\nin and around the the B.C. coast.\n Eric Thomas\n\n", "\nPlease do not do this!\n\nI don't know how the rest of you read news, but here's how I do it: I\nsubscribe to an \"outernet\" system which allows me to dial up via modem and\ndownload e-mail and news articles automatically. When someone posts a\nhuge attached binary file, I have no choice but to receive it along with\nall the other new articles in the groups I subscribe to. I also pay for\nthe connect time, which is normally not a problem because I have a 14.4K\nmodem and each day's upload/download session takes only 5 minutes or so. \nToday's session, however, lasted about 25 minutes because of ROMAN.BMP. \nConsequently, it cost me about $3.00 extra just to receive a file that I\ndidn't want in the first place.\n\nIf you have cool bitmaps that you want to make available, there are other\nways to do it: either upload the file to an ftp site (like\nftp.cica.indiana.edu, which has a complete Windows section) and tell\npeople how to get to it, or use one of the newsgroups like\nalt.binaries.pictures (or something like that), which are file archives\nrather than discussion groups. Don't use discussion groups like this one\nto send out attached files, especially when they're 600K in size.", "[most of post deleted]\nThere is an easy way out....\nPost the flyers on the stall doors, but add at the bottom, in nice large\ncapitals,\n\n EMERGENCY TOILET PAPER\n\n:)\n", "The following 4 addresses are on the LymeNet mailing list, but are rejecting\nmail. Since the list server originally accepted these addresses successfully,\nI assume these addresses have since been eliminated. Improperly functioning\nmail gateways might also be responsible.\n\nIf you are listed here and would still like to remain on the list, please\nwrite to me. Otherwise, I will remove these addresses from the list before the\nnext newsletter goes out.\n\nAs a general rule, please remember to *unsubscribe* from all your mailing\nlists before your account is closed. This will save the listserv maintainer\nfrom many headaches.\n\nLezliel@Sitka.Sun.COM\nKenneth_R_Hall@Roch817.Xerox.COM\nWestmx!ayoub@uunet.uu.net\nAbsol.absol.com!rsb@panix.COM\n-- \n--", "I'm having trouble receiving News at the moment due to an overloaded\nNews server. I think that I can post out reasonably quickly, though.\n\nI'm in a couple of threads at the moment which may be pending replies.\nIf anyone wants a reply from me over something I've posted then I\nsuggest sending an e-mail copy of the point to me so that I can reply by\nNews.\n\nThis is one way to shut me up!!\n\nCheers,\n\nDavid.\n\n---\nOn religion:", "\nPlease do...and let us know specifics. (lest I'm the only one on this).\n\nMickey", "Archive-name: rec-autos/part3\n\nThe Automotive Articles Archive Server:\n\nthe automotive archive server is in the process of being rehosted,\nand is presently not available.", "I apologize if this post isn't entirely appropriate for the newsgroup.\n\n I would like to correspond with any Christians attending the University\nof Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. I will be transfering there in August to\ncomplete my Ph.D. and I thought it would be nice to correspond with people\nbefore I moved out.\n", "Reply to haljordan@delphi.com or call 708 674-2603:", "\n\n\n I was referring to their propensity to dent during a spill. Prespill\nthey are of course a work of art.\n\n__\n Jorg Klinger | GSXR1100 | If you only new who\n Arch. & Eng. Services |\"Lost Horizons\" CR500 | I think I am. \n UManitoba, Man. Ca. |\"The Embalmer\" IT175 | - anonymous", "Hello Cliff \n\nMany people on the internet (like us) have to pay for\nevery byte of data passed through subscribed news groups.\n\nBitmaps are large. Bitmaps cost us a lot of money. There are\nspecial news-groups for bitmaps because of this. We don't\nsubscribe to them. Put you bitmaps in the right place.\nRead one of the FAQ guides in the newuser groups and it\nwill tell you all about bitmaps and the thousands of\nestablishments like mine that you have just cost money.\n\nSome of them have very limited budgets.\n\nGo away.\n\nP.S. This is a flame ;-)\nP.P.S You distribution of \"usa\" didn't work.\n\nKenB\n", " Please replay yxy4145@usl.edu\n Thanks a lot\n\n", "Hi net!\nDue to further investigation I would like to study the following article:\n\tPeterson, \"Ray tracing general B-Splines\",\n\tProc. ACM Mountain Regional Conference, April 1986\nUnfortunately I didn't find it in any library's register.\nIf there is anyone having access to this paper or knowing about a\nlibrary containing those proceedings (preferrably in Germany), please \nlet me know! Any help would be appreciated! \n\nThanks a lot, \nJoerg Haber\n", "Ithaca technical support can be reached at:\n\n tech_support@ithaca.com\n\nor by phone at:\n \n 510-523-5900\n", "Hey, I want my posts forwarded too. I can't get my sysadmin to pay\nany attention to me.\n\n", "Whoops!! Wrong group. Soooooooooooooooorry folks..\n", "The Harvard Computer Society is pleased to announce its third lecture of\nthe spring. Ivan Sutherland, the father of computer graphics and an\ninnovator in microprocessing, will be speaking at Harvard University on\nTuesday, April 20, 1993, at 4:00 pm in Aiken Computations building, room\n101. The title of his talk is \"Logical Effort and the Conflict over the\nControl of Information.\"\n\nCookies and tea will be served at 3:30 pm in the Aiken Lobby. Admissions\nis free, and all are welcome.\n\nAiken is located north of the Science Center near the Law School.\n\nFor more information, send e-mail to eekim@husc.harvard.edu.\n\nThe lecture will be videotaped, and a tape will be made available.\n\nThanks.\n", "325/441/577.\n\n", "There were a few people who responded to my request for info on\ntreatment for astrocytomas through email, whom I couldn't thank\ndirectly because of mail-bouncing probs (Sean, Debra, and Sharon). So\nI thought I'd publicly thank everyone.\n\nThanks! \n\n(I'm sure glad I accidentally hit \"rn\" instead of \"rm\" when I was\ntrying to delete a file last September. \"Hmmm... 'News?' What's\nthis?\"....)", "I try to unsubscribe from this group by sending an email but that doesn't work.\n\nCould some one tell me the listserv address and command for me to unsubcribe ?\n\nI am leaving this Friday (30th April 93) and the mail box will overflow\nsoon after that.\n\nThanks\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------\nPhilip Nguyen\nResearch Engineer\nFlexible Manufacturing Research and Development Centre (FMR&D)\nMcMaster University\n1280 Main St. West\nHamilton, On L8S 4L7\nVoice: (416) 529-7070 ext 2902 or 7343\nFax: (416) 572-7944\ne-mail: phil@flex.eng.mcmaster.ca", "Frank, I got your mailing on early historical references to Christianity.\nI'd like to respond, but I lost your address. Please mail me.", "\n\n\n\n\nThere is an office on the middle left US coast on Middlefield Road in\nMenlo Park, CA (415) 329-4390\n", "------------- cut here -----------------\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n +------------------------------------------------+\n ! !\n ! Health Info-Com Network !\n ! Medical Newsletter !\n +------------------------------------------------+\n Editor: David Dodell, D.M.D.\n 10250 North 92nd Street, Suite 210, Scottsdale, Arizona 85258-4599 USA\n Telephone +1 (602) 860-1121\n FAX +1 (602) 451-1165\n\nCompilation Copyright 1993 by David Dodell, D.M.D. All rights Reserved. \nLicense is hereby granted to republish on electronic media for which no \nfees are charged, so long as the text of this copyright notice and license \nare attached intact to any and all republished portion or portions. \n\nThe Health Info-Com Network Newsletter is distributed biweekly. Articles \non a medical nature are welcomed. If you have an article, please contact \nthe editor for information on how to submit it. If you are interested in \njoining the automated distribution system, please contact the editor. \n\nE-Mail Address:\n Editor: \n Internet: david@stat.com\n FidoNet = 1:114/15\n Bitnet = ATW1H@ASUACAD \nLISTSERV = MEDNEWS@ASUACAD.BITNET (or internet: mednews@asuvm.inre.asu.edu) \n anonymous ftp = vm1.nodak.edu\n Notification List = hicn-notify-request@stat.com\n FAX Delivery = Contact Editor for information\n\n\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n\n T A B L E O F C O N T E N T S\n\n\n1. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention - MMWR\n [23 April 1993] Rates of Cesarean Delivery ........................... 1\n Malaria Among U.S. Embassy Personnel ................................. 5\n FDA Approval of Hib Vaccine for Children/Infants ..................... 8\n\n2. Dental News\n Workshop Explores Oral Manifestations of HIV Infection ............... 11\n\n3. Food & Drug Administration News\n FDA Approves Depo Provera, injectable contraceptive .................. 14\n New Rules Speed Approval of Drugs for Life-Threatening Illnesses ..... 16\n\n4. Articles\n Research Promises Preventing/Slowing Blindness from Retinal Disease .. 18\n Affluent Diet Increases Risk Of Heart Disease ........................ 20\n\n5. General Announcments\n Publications for Health Professionals from National Cancer Institute . 23\n Publications for Patients Available from National Cancer Institute ... 30\n\n6. AIDS News Summaries\n AIDS Daily Summary for April 19 to April 23, 1993 .................... 38\n\n7. AIDS Statistics\n Worldwide AIDS Statistics ............................................ 48\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page i\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n\n\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n Centers for Disease Control and Prevention - MMWR\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n\n Rates of Cesarean Delivery -- United States, 1991\n =================================================\n SOURCE: MMWR 42(15) DATE: Apr 23, 1993\n\n Cesarean deliveries have accounted for nearly 1 million of the \napproximately 4 million annual deliveries in the United States since 1986 \n(Table 1). The cesarean rate in the United States is the third highest among \n21 reporting countries, exceeded only by Brazil and Puerto Rico (1). This \nreport presents data on cesarean deliveries from CDC's National Hospital \nDischarge Survey (NHDS) for 1991 and compares these data with previous years. \n Data on discharges from short-stay, nonfederal hospitals have been \ncollected annually since 1965 in the NHDS, conducted by CDC's National Center \nfor Health Statistics. For 1991, medical and demographic information were \nabstracted from a sample of 274,000 inpatients discharged from 484 \nparticipating hospitals. The 1991 cesareans and vaginal births after a prior \ncesarean (VBAC) presented in this report are based on weighted national \nestimates from the NHDS sample of approximately 31,000 (11%) women discharged \nafter delivery. The estimated numbers of live births by type of delivery were \ncalculated by applying cesarean rates from the NHDS to live births from \nnational vital registration data. Therefore, estimates of the number of \ncesareans in this report will not agree with previously published data based \nsolely on the NHDS (2). Stated differences in this analysis are significant at \nthe 95% confidence level, based on the two-tailed t-test with a critical value \nof 1.96. \n In 1991, there were 23.5 cesareans per 100 deliveries, the same rate as \nin 1990 and similar to rates during 1986-1989 (Table 1). The primary cesarean \nrate (i.e., number of first cesareans per 100 deliveries to women who had no \nprevious cesareans) for 1986-1991 also was stable, ranging from 16.8 to 17.5. \nIn 1991, the cesarean rate in the South was 27.6, significantly (p<0.05) \nhigher than the rates for the West (19.8), Midwest (21.8), and Northeast \n(22.6). Rates were higher for mothers aged greater than or equal to 30 years \nthan for younger women; in proprietary hospitals than in nonprofit or \ngovernment hospitals; in hospitals with fewer than 300 beds than in larger \nhospitals; and for deliveries for which Blue Cross/Blue Shield * and other \nprivate insurance is the expected source of payment than for other sources of \npayment (Table 2). The same pattern characterized primary cesarean deliveries. \n Since the early 1970s, the number and percentage of births to older women \nincreased; however, if the age distribution of mothers in 1991 had remained \nthe same as in 1986, the overall cesarean rate in 1991 would have been 23.3, \nessentially the same as the 23.5 observed. \n Based on the NHDS, of the approximately 4,111,000 live births in 1991, an \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 1\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\nestimated 966,000 (23.5%) were by cesarean delivery. Of these, an estimated \n338,000 (35.0%) births were repeat cesareans, and 628,000 (65.0%) were primary \ncesareans. Since 1986, approximately 600,000 primary cesareans have been \nperformed annually. In 1986, 8.5% of women who had a previous cesarean \ndelivered vaginally, compared with 24.2% in 1991. Of all cesareans in 1991, \n35.0% were associated with a previous cesarean, 30.4% with dystocia (i.e., \nfailure of labor to progress), 11.7% with breech presentation, 9.2% with fetal \ndistress, and 13.7% with all other specified complications. \n The average hospital stay for all deliveries in 1991 was 2.8 days. In \ncomparison, the hospital stay for a primary cesarean delivery was 4.5 days, \nand for a repeat cesarean, 4.2 days -- nearly twice the duration for VBAC \ndeliveries (2.2 days) or for vaginal deliveries that were not VBACs (2.3 \ndays). In 1986, the average hospital stay for all deliveries was 3.2 days, for \nprimary cesareans 5.2 days, for repeat cesareans 4.7 days, and for VBAC and \nnon-VBAC vaginal deliveries 2.7 and 2.6 days, respectively. \n\nReported by: Office of Vital and Health Statistics Systems, National Center \nfor Health Statistics, CDC. \n\nEditorial Note: The cesarean rate in the United States steadily increased from \n1965 through 1986; however, the findings in this report indicate that rates \nhave been stable since 1986 (3). Because there is little evidence that \nmaternal and child health status has improved during this time and because \ncesareans are associated with an increased risk for complications of \nchildbirth, a national health objective for the year 2000 (4) is to reduce the \noverall cesarean rate to 15 or fewer per 100 deliveries and the primary \ncesarean rate to 12 or fewer per 100 deliveries (objective 14.8). \n Postpartum complications -- including urinary tract and wound infections \n-- may account in part for the longer hospital stays for cesarean deliveries \nthan for vaginal births (5). Moreover, the prolonged hospital stays for \ncesarean deliveries substantially increase health-care costs. For example, in \n1991, the average costs for cesarean and vaginal deliveries were $7826 and \n$4720, respectively. The additional cost for each cesarean delivery includes \n$611 for physician fees and $2495 for hospital charges (6). If the cesarean \nrate in 1991 had been 15 (the year 2000 objective) instead of 23.5, the number \nof cesarean births would have decreased by 349,000 (617,000 versus 966,000), \nresulting in a savings of more than $1 billion in physician fees and hospital \ncharges. \n Despite the steady increase in VBAC rates since 1986, several factors may \nimpede progress toward the year 2000 national health objectives for cesarean \ndelivery. For example, VBAC rates substantially reflect the number of women \noffered trial of labor, which has been increasingly encouraged since 1982 (7). \nOf women who are offered a trial of labor, 50%-70% could deliver vaginally (7) \n--a level already achieved by many hospitals (8). Trial of labor was routinely \noffered in 46% of hospitals surveyed in 1984 (the most recent year for which \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 2\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\nnational data are available) (9) when the VBAC rate (according to NHDS data) \nwas 5.7%. The year 2000 objective specifies a VBAC rate of 35%, based on all \nwomen who had a prior cesarean, regardless of whether a trial of labor was \nattempted. To reach the overall cesarean rate goal, however, increases in the \nVBAC rate will need to be combined with a substantial reduction in the primary \nrate. \n One hospital succeeded in reducing the rate of cesarean delivery by \napplying objective criteria for the four most common indications for cesarean \ndelivery, by requiring a second opinion, and by instituting a peer-review \nprocess (10). Other recommendations for decreasing cesarean delivery rates \ninclude eliminating incentives for physicians and hospitals by equalizing \nreimbursement for vaginal and cesarean deliveries; public dissemination of \nphysician- and hospital-specific cesarean delivery rates to increase public \nawareness of differences in practices; and addressing malpractice concerns, \nwhich may be an important factor in maintaining the high rates of cesarean \ndelivery (4). \n\nReferences\n\n1. Notzon FC. International differences in the use of obstetric interventions. \nJAMA 1990; 263:3286-91. \n\n2. Graves EJ, NCHS. 1991 Summary: National Hospital Discharge Survey. \nHyattsville, Maryland: US Department of Health and Human Services, Public \nHealth Service, CDC, 1993. (Advance data no. 227). \n\n3. Taffel SM, Placek PJ, Kosary CL. U.S. cesarean section rates, 1990: an \nupdate. Birth 1992;19:21-2. \n\n4. Public Health Service. Healthy people 2000: national health promotion and \ndisease prevention objectives -- full report, with commentary. Washington, DC: \nUS Department of Health and Human Services, Public Health Service, 1991; DHHS \npublication no. (PHS)91-50212. \n\n5. Danforth DN. Cesarean section. JAMA 1985;253:811-8. \n\n6. Hospital Insurance Association of America. Table 4.15: cost of maternity \ncare, physicians' fees, and hospital charges, by census region, based on \nConsumer Price Index (1991). In: 1992 Source book of health insurance data. \nWashington, DC: Hospital Insurance Association of America, 1992. \n\n7. Committee on Obstetrics. ACOG committee opinion no. 64: guidelines for \nvaginal delivery after a previous cesarean birth. Washington, DC: American \nCollege of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, 1988. \n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 3\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n8. Rosen MG, Dickinson JC. Vaginal birth after cesarean: a meta-analysis of \nindicators for success. Obstet Gynecol 1990;76:865-9. \n\n9. Shiono PH, Fielden JG, McNellis D, Rhoads GG, Pearse WH. Recent trends in \ncesarean birth and trial of labor rates in the United States. JAMA \n1987;257:494-7. \n\n10. Myers SA, Gleicher N. A successful program to lower cesarean-section \nrates. N Engl J Med 1988;319:1511-6. \n\n* Use of trade names and commercial sources is for identification only and \ndoes not imply endorsement by the Public Health Service or the U.S. Department \nof Health and Human Services.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 4\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n Malaria Among U.S. Embassy Personnel -- Kampala, Uganda, 1992\n =============================================================\n SOURCE: MMWR 42(15) DATE: Apr 23, 1993\n\n The treatment and prevention of malaria in Africa has become a \nchallenging and complex problem because of increasing drug resistance. \nAlthough the risk of acquiring malaria for U.S. citizens and their dependents \nstationed overseas generally has been low, this risk varies substantially and \nunpredictably. During May 1992, the Office of Medical Services, Department of \nState (OMS/DOS), and CDC were notified of an increased number of malaria cases \namong official U.S. personnel stationed in Kampala, Uganda. A review of the \nhealth records from the Embassy Health Unit (EHU) in Kampala indicated that 27 \ncases of malaria were diagnosed in official personnel from March through June \n1992 compared with two cases during the same period in 1991. EHU, OMS/DOS, and \nCDC conducted an investigation to confirm all reported malaria cases and \nidentify potential risk factors for malaria among U.S. Embassy personnel. This \nreport summarizes the results of the investigation. \n Malaria blood smears from 25 of the 27 reported case-patients were \navailable for review by OMS/DOS and CDC. A case of malaria was confirmed if \nthe slide was positive for Plasmodium sp. Of the 25 persons, 17 were slide-\nconfirmed as having malaria. \n A questionnaire was distributed to all persons served by the EHU to \nobtain information about residence, activities, use of malaria \nchemoprophylaxis, and use of personal protection measures (i.e., using bednets \nand insect repellents, having window and door screens, and wearing long \nsleeves and pants in the evening). Of the 157 persons eligible for the survey, \n128 (82%) responded. \n Risk for malaria was not associated with sex or location of residence in \nKampala. Although the risk for malaria was higher among children aged less \nthan or equal to 15 years (6/32 19%) than among persons greater than 15 \nyears (11/94 12%), this difference was not significant (relative risk \nRR=1.6; 95% confidence interval CI=0.6-4.0). Eighty-two percent of the \ncases occurred among persons who had been living in Kampala for 1-5 years, \ncompared with those living there less than 1 year. Travel outside of the \nKampala area to more rural settings was not associated with increased risk for \nmalaria. \n Four malaria chemoprophylaxis regimens were used by persons who \nparticipated in the survey: mefloquine, chloroquine and proguanil, chloroquine \nalone, and proguanil alone. In addition, 23 (18%) persons who responded were \nnot using any malaria chemoprophylaxis. The risk for malaria was significantly \nlower among persons using either mefloquine or chloroquine and proguanil (8/88 \n9%) than among persons using the other regimens or no prophylaxis (9/37 \n24%) (RR=0.4; 95% CI=0.2-0.9). Twelve persons not using prophylaxis reported \nside effects or fear of possible side effects as a reason. \n The risk for malaria was lower among persons who reported using bednets \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 5\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\nall or most of the time (2/27 7%) than among persons who sometimes or rarely \nused bednets (15/99 15%) (RR=0.5; 95% CI=0.1-2.0). The risk for malaria was \nalso lower among persons who consistently used insect repellent in the evening \n(0/16), compared with those who rarely used repellent (17/110 15%) (RR=0; \nupper 95% confidence limit=1.2). Risk for malaria was not associated with \nfailure to have window or door screens or wear long sleeves or pants in the \nevening. \n As a result of this investigation, EHU staff reviewed with all personnel \nthe need to use and comply with the recommended malaria chemoprophylaxis \nregimens. EHU staff also emphasized the need to use personal protection \nmeasures and made plans to obtain insecticide-impregnated bednets and to \nprovide window and door screens for all personnel. \n\nReported by: U.S. Embassy Health Unit, Kampala, Uganda; Office of Medical \nSvcs, Dept of State, Washington, D.C. Malaria Br, Div of Parasitic Diseases, \nNational Center for Infectious Diseases, CDC. \n\nEditorial Note: In Uganda, the increase in malaria among U.S. personnel was \nattributed to poor adherence to both recommended malaria chemoprophylaxis \nregimens and use of personal protection measures during a period of increased \nmalaria transmission and intensified chloroquine resistance in sub-Saharan \nAfrica. The findings in this report underscore the need to provide initial and \ncontinued counseling regarding malaria prevention for persons living abroad in \nmalaria-endemic areas -- preventive measures that are also important for \nshort-term travelers to such areas. \n Mefloquine is an effective prophylaxis regimen in Africa and in most \nother areas with chloroquine-resistant P. falciparum; however, in some areas \n(e.g., Thailand), resistance to mefloquine may limit its effectiveness. In \nAfrica, the efficacy of mefloquine, compared with chloroquine alone, in \npreventing infection with P. falciparum is 92% (1 ). Mefloquine is safe and \nwell tolerated when given at 250 mg per week over a 2-year period. The risk \nfor serious adverse reactions possibly associated with mefloquine prophylaxis \n(e.g., psychosis and convulsions) is low (i.e., 1.3-1.9 episodes per 100,000 \nusers 2), while the risk for less severe adverse reactions (e.g., dizziness, \ngastrointestinal complaints, and sleep disturbances) is similar to that for \nother antimalarial chemoprophylactics (1). \n Doxycycline has similar prophylactic efficacy to mefloquine, but the need \nfor daily dosing may reduce compliance with and effectiveness of this regimen \n(3,4). Chloroquine alone is not effective as prophylaxis in areas of intense \nchloroquine resistance (e.g., Southeast Asia and Africa). In Africa, for \npersons who cannot take mefloquine or doxycycline, chloroquine and proguanil \nis an alternative, although less effective, regimen. Chloroquine should be \nused for malaria prevention in areas only where chloroquine-resistant P. \nfalciparum has not been reported. \n Country-specific recommendations for preventing malaria and information \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 6\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\non the dosage and precautions for malaria chemoprophylaxis regimens are \navailable from Health Information for International Travel, 1992 (i.e., \n\"yellow book\") (5) or 24 hours a day by telephone or fax, (404) 332-4555. \n\nReferences\n\n1. Lobel HO, Miani M, Eng T, et al. Long-term malaria prophylaxis with weekly \nmefloquine in Peace Corps volunteers: an effective and well tolerated regimen. \nLancet 1993;341:848-51. \n\n2. World Health Organization. Review of central nervous system adverse events \nrelated to the antimalarial drug, mefloquine (1985-1990). Geneva: World Health \nOrganization, 1991; publication no. WHO/MAL/91.1063. \n\n3. Pang L, Limsomwong N, Singharaj P. Prophylactic treatment of vivax and \nfalciparum malaria with low-dose doxycycline. J Infect Dis 1988;158:1124-7. \n\n4. Pang L, Limsomwong N, Boudreau EF, Singharaj P. Doxycycline prophylaxis for \nfalciparum malaria. Lancet 1987;1:1161-4. \n\n5. CDC. Health information for international travel, 1992. Atlanta: US \nDepartment of Health and Human Services, Public Health Service, 1992:98; DHHS \npublication no. (CDC)92-8280.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 7\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n FDA Approval of Use of a New Haemophilus b Conjugate Vaccine and a\n Combined Diphtheria-Tetanus-Pertussis and Haemophilus b Conjugate\n Vaccine for Infants and Children\n ==================================================================\n SOURCE: MMWR 42(15) DATE: Apr 23, 1993\n\n Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib) conjugate vaccines have been \nrecommended for use in infants since 1990, and their routine use in infant \nvaccination has contributed to the substantial decline in the incidence of Hib \ndisease in the United States (1-3). Vaccines against diphtheria, tetanus, and \npertussis during infancy and childhood have been administered routinely in the \nUnited States since the late 1940s and has been associated with a greater than \n90% reduction in morbidity and mortality associated with infection by these \norganisms. Because of the increasing number of vaccines now routinely \nrecommended for infants, a high priority is the development of combined \nvaccines that allow simultaneous administration with fewer separate \ninjections. \n The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) recently licensed two new products \nfor vaccinating children against these diseases: 1) the Haemophilus b \nconjugate vaccine (tetanus toxoid conjugate, ActHIB Trademark), * for \nvaccination against Hib disease only and 2) a combined diphtheria and tetanus \ntoxoids and whole-cell pertussis vaccine (DTP) and Hib conjugate vaccine \n(TETRAMUNE Trademark), a combination of vaccines formulated for use in \nvaccinating children against diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, and Hib disease. \n\n ActHIB Trademark \n\n On March 30, 1993, the FDA approved a new Haemophilus b conjugate \nvaccine, polyribosylribitol phosphate-tetanus toxoid conjugate (PRP-T), \nmanufactured by Pasteur Merieux Serum et Vaccins and distributed as ActHIB \nTrademark by Connaught Laboratories, Inc. (Swiftwater, Pennsylvania). This \nvaccine has been licensed for use in infants in a three-dose primary \nvaccination series administered at ages 2, 4, and 6 months. Previously \nunvaccinated infants 7-11 months of age should receive two doses 2 months \napart. Previously unvaccinated children 12-14 months of age should receive one \ndose. A booster dose administered at 15 months of age is recommended for all \nchildren. Previously unvaccinated children 15-59 months of age should receive \na single dose and do not require a booster. More than 90% of infants receiving \na primary vaccination series of ActHIB Trademark (consecutive doses at 2, 4, \nand 6 months of age) develop a geometric mean titer of anti-Haemophilus b \npolysaccharide antibody greater than 1 ug/mL (4). This response is similar to \nthat of infants who receive recommended series of previously licensed \nHaemophilus b conjugate vaccines for which efficacy has been demonstrated in \nprospective trials. Two U.S. efficacy trials of PRP-T were terminated early \nbecause of the concomitant licensure of other Haemophilus b conjugate vaccines \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 8\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\nfor use in infants (4). In these studies, no cases of invasive Hib disease \nwere detected in approximately 6000 infants vaccinated with PRP-T. These and \nother studies suggest that the efficacy of PRP-T vaccine will be similar to \nthat of the other licensed Hib vaccines. TETRAMUNE Trademark \n On March 30, 1993, the FDA approved a combined diphtheria and tetanus \ntoxoids and whole-cell pertussis vaccine (DTP) and Haemophilus b conjugate \nvaccine. TETRAMUNE Trademark, available from Lederle-Praxis Biologicals (Pearl \nRiver, New York), combines two previously licensed products, DTP (TRIIMMUNOL \nRegistered, manufactured by Lederle Laboratories Pearl River, New York) and \nHaemophilus b conjugate vaccine (HibTITER Registered, manufactured by Praxis \nBiologics, Inc. Rochester, New York). \n This vaccine has been licensed for use in children aged 2 months-5 years \nfor protection against diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, and Hib disease when \nindications for vaccination with DTP vaccine and Haemophilus b conjugate \nvaccine coincide. Based on demonstration of co mparable or higher antibody \nresponses to each of the components of the two vaccines, TETRAMUNE Trademark \nis expected to provide protection against Hib, as well as diphtheria, tetanus, \nand pertussis, equivalent to that of already licensed formulations of other \nDTP and Haemophilus b vaccines. \n The Advisory Committee for Immunization Practices (ACIP) recommends that \nall infants receive a primary series of one of the licensed Haemophilus b \nconjugate vaccines beginning at 2 months of age and a booster dose at age 12-\n15 months (5). The ACIP also recommends that all infants receive a four-dose \nprimary series of diphtheria and tetanus toxoids and pertussis vaccine at 2, \n4, 6, and 15-18 months of age, and a booster dose at 4-6 years (6-8). A \ncomplete statement regarding recommendations for use of ActHIB Trademark and \nTETRAMUNE Trademark is being developed. \n\nReported by: Office of Vaccines Research and Review, Center for Biologics \nEvaluation and Research, Food and Drug Administration. Div of Immunization, \nNational Center for Prevention Svcs; Meningitis and Special Pathogens Br, Div \nof Bacterial and Mycotic Diseases, National Center for Infectious Diseases, \nCDC. \n\nReferences\n\n1. Adams WG, Deaver KA, Cochi SL, et al. Decline of childhood Haemophilus \ninfluenzae type b (Hib) disease in the Hib vaccine era. JAMA 1993;269:221-6. \n\n2. Broadhurst LE, Erickson RL, Kelley PW. Decrease in invasive Haemophilus \ninfluenzae disease in U.S. Army children, 1984 through 1991. JAMA \n1993;269:227-31. \n\n3. Murphy TV, White KE, Pastor P, et al. Declining incidence of Haemophilus \ninfluenzae type b disease since introduction of vaccination. JAMA \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 9\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n1993;269:246-8. \n\n4. Fritzell B, Plotkin S. Efficacy and safety of a Haemophilus influenzae type \nb capsular polysaccharide-tetanus protein conjugate vaccine. J Pediatr \n1992;121:355-62. \n\n5. ACIP. Haemophilus b conjugate vaccines for prevention of Haemophilus \ninfluenzae type b disease among infants and children two months of age and \nolder: recommendations of the Immunization Practices Advisory Committee \n(ACIP). MMWR 1991;40(no. RR-1). \n\n6. ACIP. Diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis -- recommendations for vaccine use \nand other preventive measures: recommendations of the Immunization Practices \nAdvisory Committee (ACIP). MMWR 1991;40(no. RR-10). \n\n7. ACIP. Pertussis vaccination: acellular pertussis vaccine for reinforcing \nand booster use -- supplementary ACIP statement: recommendations of the \nImmunization Practices Advisory Committee (ACIP). MMWR 1992;41(no. RR-1). \n\n8. ACIP. Pertussis vaccination: acellular pertussis vaccine for the fourth and \nfifth doses of the DTP series -- update to supplementary ACIP statement: \nrecommendations of the Immunization Practices Advisory Committee (ACIP). MMWR \n1992;41(no. RR-15). \n\n* Use of trade names and commercial sources is for identification only and \ndoes not imply endorsement by the Public Health Service or the U.S. Department \nof Health and Human Services.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 10\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n\n\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n Dental News\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n\n International Workshop Explores Oral Manifestations of\n HIV Infection\n\n NIDR Research Digest\n written by Jody Dove\n March 1993\n National Institute of Dental Research\n\n At the Second International Workshop on the Oral Manifestations of HIV \nInfection, held January 31-February 3 in San Francisco, participants explored \nissues related to the epidemiology, basic molecular virology, mucosal \nimmunology, and oral clinical presentations of HIV infection. \n The workshop was organized by Dr. John Greenspan and Dr. Deborah \nGreenspan of the Department of Stomatology, School of Dentistry, University of \nCalifornia, San Francisco. An international steering committee and scientific \nprogram committee provided guidance. \n The conference drew more than 260 scientists from 39 countries, including \nAsia, Africa, Europe, Central America, South America, as well as the United \nStates and Canada. Support tor the workshop was provided by the National \nInstitute of Dental Research, the National Cancer Institute, the National \nInstitute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, the NIH Office of AIDS Research, \nand the Procter and Gamble Company. \n Among the topics discussed were: the epidemiology of HIV lesions; ethics, \nprofessional responsibility, and public policy; occupational issues; provision \nof oral care to the HIV-positive population; salivary HIV transmission and \nmucosal immunity; opportunistic infections; pediatric HIV infection; and \nwomen's issues. \n\n Recommendations\n\n Recommendations emerged from the workshop to define the association \nbetween the appearance of oral lesions and rate of progression of HIV, to \nestablish a universal terminology for HIV-associated oral lesions, to look for \nmore effective treatments for oral manifestations, to expand molecular biology \nstudies to understand the relationship between HIV infection and common oral \nlesions, and to study the effects of HIV therapy on oral lesions. \n\n Epidemiology\n\n Since the First International Workshop on Oral Manifestations of HIV \nInfection was convened five years ago, the epidemiology of HIV infection has \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 11\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\nradically changed. In 1988, HIV infection was detected and reported largely \nin homosexual and bisexual males, intravenous drug users, and hemophiliacs. \nToday, more HIV infection is seen in heterosexual males and females and in \nchildren and adolescents. \n While the predominant impact of HIV infection has been felt in Africa, a \nmajor increase in infection rate is being seen in Southeast Asia as well. \nFive hundred thousand cases have been reported to date in this region and more \nare appearing all the time. \n Researchers are continuing to document the epidemiology of oral lesions \nsuch as hairy leukoplakia and candidiasis. They also are beginning to explore \nthe relationships between specific oral lesions and HIV disease progression \nand prognosis. \n\n Social/political Issues\n\n Discussion on the social and political implications of HIV infection \nfocused on changing the public's attitude that AIDS is retribution for \nindiscriminate sexual behavior and drug use. Speakers also addressed health \ncare delivery for HIV-infected patients, and the need to educate the public \nabout what AIDS is, and how it is acquired. \n\n Saliva and Salivary Glands\n\n Conference speakers described transmission issues and the HIV-inhibitory \nactivity of saliva, the strength of which varies among the different salivary \nsecretions. Whole saliva has a greater inhibitory effect than submandibular \nsecretions, which in turn have a greater inhibitory effect than parotid \nsecretions. Research has shown that at least two mechanisms are responsible \nfor salivary inhibitory activity. They attributed the HIV-inhibitory effect \nof saliva to the 1) aggregation/agglutination of HIV by saliva, which may both \npromote clearance of virus and prevent it reaching a target cell, and 2) \ndirect effects on the virus or target cells. \n Other topics discussed were the manifestation of salivary gland disease \nin HIV-infected persons and current research on oral mucosal immunity. \n\n Pediatric Issues\n\n Pediatric AIDS recently has emerged as an area of intense interest. With \nearly and accurate diagnosis and proper treatment, the life expectancy of HIV-\ninfected children has tripled. The prevention of transmission of HIV from \nmother to child may be possible in many cases, particularly if the mother's \nsero-status is known prior to giving birth. \n\n Periodontal and Gingival Tissue Disease\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 12\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n Oral health researchers continue to explore periodontal diseases and \ngingivitis found in individuals with HIV infection. Recommendations made at \nthe workshop include the standardization of terminology, refinement of \ndiagnostic markers, standardization of study design, and proper consideration \nof confounding variables resulting from periodontal therapy. \n\n Occupational and Treatment Issues\n\n Occupational issues surrounding the treatment of HIV-infected individuals \nand treatment rendered by HIV-infected health care professionals still command \nconsiderable attention. Factors under consideration include the cost/benefit \nof HIV testing, patient-to-health care provider transmission of HIV infection \nand the reverse, and the use of mainstream versus dedicated facilities for the \ntreatment of HIV-infected patients. \n Conference participants anticipate that a third International Workshop on \nthe Oral Manifestations of HIV Infection will be held in five years or less. \nProceedings from the second workshop will be published by the Quintessence \nCompany in late 1993.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n--------- end of part 1 ------------\n", "About two years ago I posted the following:\n \nI am planning to write a new book called \"Great Canadian Scientists.\"\nPlease forward your nominations to me: shell@cs.sfu.ca\n \nThe rules are that the person must be a Canadian citizen. They don't have\nto be born in Canada or even live in Canada, but they must have (or have\nhad, if they are dead) Canadian citizenship while they are/were great\nCanadian scientists.\n \nAbout 70 people have been nominated already and they are listed at the\nend of this posting.\n \nI'm not quite sure what should constitute greatness, and there may be a\ngray area here. If you have any ideas on criteria for greatness, I would be\npleased to hear them. In any event, please nominate people even if you are\nnot sure they are great. I would like as big a list as possible.\n \nPlease give me a name and email address, phone number or mail address, so\nthat I can contact the person. If you don't know any of the above, then\ngive me their last known whereabouts. Also please give your reason for why\nyou think the person should be considered a great Canadian scientist.\n \nAfter I have the list, I will choose about six of the most interesting ones\nand do in-depth biographies of those individuals in the style of Tracy\nKidder's \"Soul of a New Machine\" or some other dramatic technique.\nThe rest of the great Canadian scientists will appear in an appedix with \none paragraph biographies.\n \nIf you have any other ideas about this project, I am interested to hear\nthem.\n \nSo far, I have received 68 nominations as follows:\n \n \nFirst Name Last Name Nominator Famous For\n---------- --------- --------- ----------\nSid Altman Kuszewski, John Catalytic RNA(Nobel Chem 89)\nFrederick Banting me Insulin (Nobel U23 medicine)\nDavidson Black Stanley, Robert Discovered Peking Man\nJames R. Bolton Warden, Joseph chemistry?\nRaoul Bott Smith, Steven Math: algebraic topology.\nWillard Boyle Chamm, Craig Co inventor of CCD\nGerard Bull Stanley, Robert Ballistics and gunnery\nDennis Chitty Galindo-Leal, Carlos First animal ecologist\nBrian C. Conway Tellefsen, Karen Electrochemistry\nStephen Cook Mendelzon, Alberto NP-completeness, complexity\n? Copp Kuch, Gerald biochem aspects of physiol\nH.S.M. Coxeter Calkin, Neil J. Regular polytopes (math)\nP. N. Daykin Palmer, Bill Chem, mosquito repellant\nH. E. Duckworth anonymous Mass Spectroscopy, admin\nJack Edmonds Snoeyink, Jack Math, Operations research\nReginald Fessenden Johnsen, Hans Wire insulation, light bulb\nUrsula Franklin McKellin, William Physics archeol. materials\nJ. A. Gray Gray, Tom Nuclear physics, The Gray\nE. W. Guptill Chamm, Craig Slotted array radar\nDonald Hebb Lyons, Michael Learning (Hebbian synapses)\nGerhard Herzberg me Optical spectr Nobel 71\nJames Hillier me Electron Microscope (Can/Am)\nCrawford S. Holling Galindo-Leal, Carlos Ecology, predators and prey\nDavid Hubel Lyons, Michael Visual cortex (Nobel med ?)\nKenneth Iverson Dare, Gary Invented APL\nJ. D. Jackson Austern, Matt Elementary Particle Theory\nAndre Joyal Pananagden, Prakash Category theory, categ Logic\nMartin Kamen me Carbon-14 (Canadian/Amer.)\nIrving Kaplansky Knighten, Bob Algebra, functional analysis\nGeorge S. Kell Kell, Dave Hot water freezing\nT. E. Kellogg Palmer, Bill Chem, mosquito repellant\nGeraldine Kenney-Wallace Siegman, Anthony Chemistry ? Administration\nBrian Kernaghan Brader, Mark C programming language\nMichael L. Klein Marchi, Massimo Theoretical Chemistry\nCharles J. Krebs Galindo-Leal, Carlos Ecology, Krebs effect\nK. J. Laidler Tellefsen, Karen Chemical Kinetics\nG. C. Laurence Palmer, Bill Physics ????\nRaymond Lemieux Smith, Earl First synthesized glucose\nMartin Levine Meunier, Robert Computer vision\nEdward S. Lowry himself Computer programming\nPere Marie-Victorin Meunier, Robert Jardin Botanique de Montreal\nColin MacLeod Turner, Steven Nobel (?) DNA discovery?\nMarshall McLuhan Clamen, Stewart Social sci, communications\nBen Morrison Willson, David Aurora Borealis\nLawrence Morley Strome, Murray Plate Tektonics/Remote sense\nFarley Mowat Abbott, John Northern Animal rights?\nKevin Ogilvie Kendrick, Kelly Genetics, cure for herpes?\nSir William Osler Lyons, Michael Medicine\nP.J.E. Peebles Vishniac, Ethan Most important cosmologist\nWilder Penfield Perri, Marie Anatomical basis for memory\nJohn Polanyi me chemiluminescensce Nobel86\nDenis Poussart Meunier, Robert Computer Vision\nAnatol Rapoport Lloyd-Jones, David conflict theory, game theory\nHoward Rapson Sutherland, Russell Pulp chemistry\nHans Selye Goel, Anil K. Psychology of stress.\nWilliam Stephenson Wilkins, Darin WW2 Enigma code, Wire photo\nBoris Stoicheff Siegman, Anthony Raman Spectroscopy\nDavid Suzuki Meister, Darren Science communication\nHenry Taube Parker, Wiley Physical Chemistry Nobel83\nRichard Taylor Manuel, John Verified Quark model Nobel90\nDavid Thompson Eisler, Michael Mapped western Canada\nEndel Tulving Green, Christopher Psychology of memory\nBill Tutte Royle, Gordon matroid theory (math)\nI Uchida Palmer, Bill Down's syndrome\nJ. Tuzo Wilson Collier, John Continental Drift theory\nR. H. Wright Palmer, Bill Chem, mosquito repellant\nJ.L.(Allen) Yen Leone, Pasquale VL baseline interferometry\nWalter Zinn me Breader Reactor (Can/Amer.)\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n \nThe list is growing nicely. It's amazing to see just how much was discovered\nby Canadians. Actually there are many more who were born in Canada, but\nbecame Americans after graduate school.\n \nPlease note: a lot of people have nominated Alexander Graham Bell but I\nfeel he was really a Scottish/American with a summer home in Canada. Now\nI know this is debatable, but please don't nominate him again.\n \nIf anyone can fill in some of the question marks on the list, please drop\nme a line.\n==================================================\n \nThat was two years ago. Since then, I have received a grant from Science\nCulture Canada, a division of Supply and Services Canada to research the\nbook. Since my old posting the book has evolved into an educational book\nfor kids aged 9 - 14 (though this may change again) It will have about\n40 two-page spreads with a large graphic in the middle and text/graphic\nboxes all around on the following subjects: Vital statistics and photo of\nthe scientist, Personal statement from the scientist, Narrative of a few\nmoments in the life of the scientist, \"What I was doing when I was 12\",\nSo you want to be a , Experiment you can do. There \nwill be an appendix with 100 - 200 more scientists with one paragraph\nbiographies who didn't quite make it to the double spreads. The whole thing\nwill then be published on CD-ROM with video and sound clips for added\nrichness. I am looking for a CD-ROM publisher as well. The text part may\nalso be available on the CANARIE electronic highway being developed in\nCanada as well.\n \nI am still looking for a publisher though Penguin Canada came close \nto being it. Hope to find one soon. \n \nI would like to again ask for more nominations, especially in the\npure sciences of Physics, Chemistry and Biology. Also criticisms of \nthe list are welcomed. Also women and French-Canadian scientists are needed.\n \nI hope this posting will get others to nominate more Great Canadian\nScientists, and to discuss what is \"great\" what is \"Canadian\" and what is\n\"scientist\".\n \nPlease respond to:\nshell@sfu.ca\n \nor\nBarry Shell 604-876-5790\n \n4692 Quebec St. Vancouver, B.C. V5V 3M1 Canada", "Enclosed is an advertisement for the Defending the Faith IV\nconference to be held at Franciscan University of Steubenville (Ohio)\nJune 25-27. I attended DTF III last year, and plan to go again this\nyear. I would recommend it highly to Catholic interested in\napologetics. There will be lots of music, well-known Catholic speakers,\nfellowship, as well as Eucharistic Liturgies Friday and Sunday.\n\n Registration is $85 per person, but I believe financial aid is\navailable if you need it. Housing in residence halls (each of which has\nits own Blessed Sacrament chapel), if desired, is $30/person for double\noccupancy for two nights ($30 total). Reservations can also be made for\nyou at the very nearby Holiday Inn. I think it was $47 a night there\nfor my single room. Meals are available at the cafeteria (Friday dinner\nthrough Sunday lunch) for $38 or $32, with or without breakfast,\nrespectively.\n\n Franciscan University of Steubenville is located in eastern Ohio on\nUS Route 22, 1/2 mile west of the Ohio River and Ohio Route 7. Greater\nPittsburgh International Airport is less than one hour (35 miles) from\ncampus.\n\n Feel free to e-mail me if you have any question I can answer.\n\n Here is the agenda, as typed in by a friend of mine:\n\nFriday afternoon special:\n\nReflections on C.S. Lewis, a preliminary session with Walter Hooper.\nWalter Hooper is one of the foremost international experts on the\nwritings of C.S. Lewis. In 1963, he served as secretary to C.S. Lewis,\nand he has since edited 18 of Lewis' literary works for publication.\nWalter was ordained a priest in the Church of England in 1965, serving\nin Oxford, England, until he entered the Catholic Church in 1988.\n\n----------------\nFriday evening, opening session:\nIn Search of the Truth: Finding the Fullness of Faith\nBishop Fabian Bruskewitz.\n\nKnow Your Rites\nKimberly Hahn.\n-------------------\nSaturday Morning\nApologetics Means Never Having to Say You're Sorry\nKarl Keating\n\nC.S. Lewis: My Signpost to the Catholic Church\nWalter Hooper\n\nMass\nBishop Bruskewitz, celebrant\nFr. Ray Ryland, homilist\n\n---------------------------\nSaturday afternoon:\n\nThe Mystery of Femininity: Why It Excludes the Priesthood\nDr. Alice von Hildebrand\n\nMen Make Better Fathers: Masculinity and the Male Priesthood\nDr. Peter Kreeft\n\n----------------------------\nSaturday evening:\n\nWhen Do Catholics Hear the Gospel?\nDr. Thomas Howard\n\nThe Catholic Gospel: Not Just Saving Sinners\nScott Hahn\n\n-----------------------------\nSunday morning:\n\nThere's No Place Like Rome: The Pilgrimage of Two Protestant Pastors\nPanel.\n\nMass\nFr. Ray Ryland, celebrant\nFr. Michael Scanlan, TOR, homilist\n\n\n-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\n\n Here is the ad that appeared in _The Catholic Answer_:\n\n DEFENDING THE FAITH IV CONFERENCE\n\n CATHOLIC CHURCH TEACHING:\n\n KNOW WHY YOU BELIEVE June 25-27, 1993\n\n Times have changed. Major Catholic doctrines are misunderstood and\nattacked. Like never before, believers need to know the reasons behind\nthe Catholic Church's teaching. As our first pope urged: \"Always be\nready to give a defense for the hope that is within you\" (I Peter 3:15).\n\n Grab your notebooks and get ready for an unforgettable spiritual and\nintellectual weekend. This year's conference will candidly confront the\nhardest questions and objections about the Catholic faith. Deepen your\nunderstanding of Church teaching with _Scott_ and _Kimberly Hahn, Dr.\nThomas Howard, Karl Keating, Dr. Alice von Hildebrand, Dr. Peter\nKreeft,_ and _Fr. Ray Ryland_.\n\n Cut throught the confusion and doubt, and be better equipped to give\na defense for the hope that is within you.\n\n Join us at _Defending the Faith IV_, the fourth in a series of annual\nconferences designed to strengthen the life of Catholics and others\ninterested in the Catholic faith. It can help _you_ know why you\nbelieve.\n\n\nCall toll free today:\t\t\t\tFranciscan University\n800/437-TENT\t\t\t\t\t of Steubenville\nor 614/283-6314\t\t\t\t Steubenville, Ohio 43952-6701", "\nTo send a message to a CompuServe user via Internet E-Mail enter the\nmail mode and address your receiver as follows: 723123.313@compuserve.com\nThe number is the receiver's CompuServe I.D. number. If the users number\ncontains a comma or anything other than a period, change it to a period.", "\n\n 101 Courageous Dr. \n Leage City, TX 77573\n Phone: (713) 538-6000 \n\n \nGood Luck!\nDoug ", "\n\nI don't know how to reach Serdar, but you might be able to reach his\nsysadmin by email, phone, or snail-mail.\n\nHere is information from rs.internic.net:\n\nAhmet Cosar (ANATOLIA-DOM)\n 1530 S. 6th St.\n Suite C705\n Minneapolis, Minnesota, 55454\n\n Domain Name: ANATOLIA.ORG\n\n Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact:\n Cosar, Ahmet (AC234) cosar@ANATOLIA.ORG\n 612-376-7873\n\nAnd here is what \"finger cosar@umn.edu\" gets you:\n\n name: Ahmet Cosar-1\n info: Last registered 1993 Winter Qtr\nInternet mailbox: cosa0001@student.tc.umn.edu\n other mailbox: PROFS: COSA0001@UMNTCML\n postal address: 1530 So 6th St Apt C705\n Minneapolis\n MN 55454\n surname: Cosar\n telephone: +1 612-376-7873\n title: Grad\n userid: cosa0001\n X.400 mailbox: /G=Ahmet/S=Cosar-1/OU=mail/O=tc/PRMD=umn.edu/ADMD= /C=us/", "please subscribe me.", "Does anyone know about the Christian Embassy in Washington DC? What\nexactly does it do?\n\nPlease respond to lisa@ux1.lbl.gov", "unfortunately not\n\n", "Give out the address, I'll drive by and take a look myself, then post.\n\n", "\nTwo things:\n\n\t1. Read your own posts. I was agreeing with Bob. No correction\n\t needed.\n\n\t2. Don't quote stuff out of context.\n\n-- \n--------------------------------------------------------------------\n Dave Medin\t\t\tPhone:\t(205) 730-3169 (w)\n SSD--Networking\t\t\t\t(205) 837-1174 (h)\n Intergraph Corp.\n M/S GD3004 \t\tInternet: dtmedin@catbyte.b30.ingr.com\n Huntsville, AL 35894\t\tUUCP: ...uunet!ingr!b30!catbyte!dtmedin\n\n ******* Everywhere You Look (at least around my office) *******", "\n\ndoes anyone know?\n\n-- ", "\nI seem to recall Rush saying that he has a CompuServe account. If anyone\nwants to E-mail him, all we need is his account number (i.e.: 12345,6789)\nand then we could e-mail him via gateway by using a dot instead of a comma\nlike so: \"12345.6789@compuserve.com\". (THIS IS *NOT* HIS ADDRESS.)\n\nSo, does anyone know his e-mail address? He *says* he uses it all the time.\n(I wonder if he reads alt.fan.rush-limbaugh... His ego is big enough!)", "\nOops, forgot the phone number. It's 1-800-377-8287.\n\n\n\n", "I am looking for a copy of the following Siggraph publication: Gomez, J.E.\n\"Comments on Event Driven Annimation,\" Siggraph Course Notes, 10, 1987.\n\nIf anyone knows of a location where I can obtain a copy of these notes, I\nwould appreciate if they could let me know. Thanks.", "If anyone is keeping a list of the potential contributors, \nyou can put me down for $1000.00 under the conditions above", "\nplease e-mail me too,\n\nthanks\n\n...howard\nhfeldman@infoserv.com\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------", "\n\nTry postmaster@norton.com \nor postmaster@symantec.com\n--", "Please Ineed information about desk top publishe- post graduate courses\nand if possible email address or normal mail.\nthanks in advance\n", "\n\n\nIn case you haven't sent it yet, it's \"Bentsen\", not \"Bensen\".", "try cd'ing to\n\n\tpublications/May_93_online\n\non siggraph.org\n\nIt's there!", "\nI have been in the same boat as you last year. I've tried four times to\nsend you an email response, but your end doesn't seem to accept my mail?\nPlease let me know if you receive this.\n\nCheers Nigel", "Found it! Thanks. I got several offers for help. I appreciate it and\nwill be contacting those people via e-mail.\n\nThanks again...", "Had a deal with Jay Hayes from Deleware and was ripped off do not deal with\nthis guy and if you know him go to his door with a bat! He lives in Deleware\nand I will post his full address later as well as his phone number in case\nany on e else wants to call and leave nasty messages. He will not return\nemail and he will not return my phone calls I left a message iwth hgis\nroomate to call collect and hes not man enough. He still maintains net\nprivilages, can we somehow get this turkey off the net.", "-------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n CALL FOR PAPERS\n\n\n The Eighth International Symposium on Computer and Information Sciences\n\n ISCIS VIII\n November 3 - 5, 1993, Antalya, Turkey\n\n\n Organized by\n\n EHEI\n Ecole des Hautes Etudes en Informatique, Paris, France\n\n METU\n Middle East Technical University, Ankara, Turkey\n\n\n in cooperation with\n IEEE Computer Society Turkey Chapter,\n IEEE Turkey Section\n and the following universities:\n Bogazici, Ege, Hacettepe, Istanbul Teknik, Yildiz.\n\n ISCIS Advisory Board:\n E.Arkun, E.Gelenbe, U.Halici, E.Harmanci, K.Inan,\n Y.Karsligil, S.Kuru, N.Yalabik, U. Yarimagan, S.Yilmaz\n\n\n Conference Chair Program Co-Chairs Publicity Chair\n -------------------- ------------------------ ----------------------\n Erol Gelenbe, L. Gun, IBM, USA Ugur Halici, METU\n Duke University, USA R. Onvural,IBM, USA halici@vm.cc.metu.edu.tr\n erol@egr.duke.edu P. Quinton,IRISA, France halici@trmetu.bitnet\n\n\n Program Committee\n -----------------\nV. Akman, Turkey, E. Alpaydin, Turkey, E. Arkun, Turkey, I. Aybay, Turkey,\nS. Bilgen, Turkey, A. Dogac, Turkey, A. Dogramaci, Turkey, S. Fdida, France,\nJ.M. Fourneau, France, E. Gelenbe, USA, G. Gonenc, Turkey, U. Halici, Turkey,\nE. Harmanci, Turkey, K. Inan, Turkey, S. Jaehnischen,Germany, S. Kuru, Turkey,\nM. Nivat, France, V. Paschos, France, N.Pekergin, France, J.F. Perrot, France,\nM. Raynal,France, A. Stafylopatis, Greece, G. Stamon,France, G. Ucoluk, Turkey,\nN. Yalabik, Turkey\n\n\n Publicity Committee\n -------------------\n Isik Aybay, Osman Basbugoglu, Semih Bilgen, Emin Germen, Mert Sungur\n\n\nISCIS VIII is the eighth of a series of meetings which have brought together\ncomputer scientists and engineers from about twenty countries. This year's\nconference will be held in the beautiful Mediterranean resort city of\nAntalya, in a region rich in natural as well as historical sites.\n\n\n RESEARCH PAPERS ARE SOUGHT IN THE FOLLOWING AREAS:\n --------------------------------------------------\n Theory of Computer Science - Computer Architecture & Systems\n Artificial Intelligence - Neural Networks\n Graphics and Image Processing - Computational Mathematics\n Operations Research Applications - Databases\n Performance Evaluation - Software Engineering\n Computer Networks - Parallelism\n\nPaper Submission: Full papers are limited to 8 pages and short\ncommunications are limited to 4 pages. Submit five camera ready copies\n(one original and four copies) of the paper and an accompanying letter by\npostal mail only, so as to arrive by June 30, 1993 to:\n\n ISCIS VIII, Attn Drs Levent Gun and Raif Onvural,\n IBM E95/B 673, P.O. Box 12195, Research Triangle Park, NC 27709, USA\n\nSelected papers from ISCIS VIII will be published in the journal Information\nSciences (Elsevier - North Holland).\n\nPoster Submission: Submit five camera ready copies of 1 page extended\nabstract with an accompanying letter by July 30, 1993 to the address given\nabove.\n\nInformation: For required writing format, further information and\nannouncements, contact:", "please subscribe me.", "Hi,\n\tDoes anyone know anything about this group and what they\ndo? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks!\n", "\nThe domain address of the WHO is: who.arcom.ch\nSo try sending email to postmaster@who.arcom.ch\n\nJosh\nbackon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL\n\n\n\n\n\n", "with\nmodel\ntoward", "ctwomey@vms.eurokom.ie (Colum Twomey) comments:\n\n\nCasady & Greene seems to be notoriously slow about responding, as\nI've heard from others who have contacted them. They may not reply\nvia fax, but via snail mail. Give them time, or contact them again.\n\nRhia\n", "Hi all,\n\n\tI got tired of waiting for a mailing list so I am going to make one....\njust send me your complete e-mail address on your message and I'll send\nyou a confirmation and the Yankee mailing list address\n\n-john", "My news feed is broken and I haven't received any new news in 243 hours\n(more than 10 days). So, if you reply to this, please send private\nemail to the address esther@demand.ed.ray.com -- I have set the\nReply-To line to have that address but I don't know if it will work.\n\n[It depends upon the software, but generally I wouldn't expect\nreply-to to cause an email cc to be sent in addition to a posting.\nYou'll probably need to do something specific, which will vary\ndepending upon your news software. --clh]\n\nAt any rate, I need some support. (Much thanks to Jayne K who is\nalready supporting me with kind words and prayers!)\n\nI've been working at this company for eight years in various\nengineering jobs. I'm female. Yesterday I counted and realized that\non seven different occasions I've been sexually harrassed at this\ncompany. Seven times. Eight years. Yesterday was the most recent one;\nsomeone left an X-rated photo of a nude woman in my desk drawer.\n\nI'm really upset by this. I suppose it could have been worse -- it\ncould have been a man having sex with a sheep or something.\n\nThere was no note. I do not know if it was:\n\n\t- someone's idea of an innocent joke, that went awry\n\t- someone's sick idea of flirting\n\t- an act of emotional terrorism (that worked!)\n\nI dreaded coming back to work today. What if my boss comes in to ask\nme some kind of question, I don't know the answer so I take a military\nspecification down off from my shelf to look up the answer, and out\nfalls a picture of a man having sex with a sheep? I generally have a\nBible on my desk for occasional inspiration; what if I open it up to\nCorinthians and find a picture a la the North American Man Boy Love\nAssociation? I want to throw up just thinking about this stuff.\n\nI can lock up my desk, but I can't lock up every book I have in the\noffice. I can't trust that someone won't shove something into my\nbriefcase or my coat pocket when I'm not looking so that I go home to\nfind such a picture, or a threat, or a raunchy note about what someone\nwants to do to my body.\n\nTo make it worse, the entire department went out to lunch yesterday to\ntreat our marvelous secretary to lunch. The appointed hour for\nleaving was 11:30. I was working in another building but wanted to go\nto the lunch. So I returned at 11:25, only to find that ever single\nperson had already left for lunch. They left at 11:15 or so. No one\ncould be bothered to call me at the other building, even though my\nnumber was posted. So, I came back to a department that looked like a\nneutron bomb had gone off and I was the sole survivor. This, despite\nthe fact that everyone knew how bad I felt about this naked woman being\nleft in my desk drawer.\n\nI need some prayers --- I can't stop crying. I am so deeply wounded\nthat it's ridiculous.\n\nI feel like I'm some kind of sub-human piece of garbage for people to\nreduce me and my sisters to simply sex organs and the sex act. I feel\nlike I'm a sub-human piece of garbage that's not worthy of a simple\nphone call saying \"We're leaving for Mary's lunch a little early so\nthat Bob can get back for a big 1:00 meeting...\"\n\nPlease pray that my resentments will either go away, or be miraculously\nturned into something positive. Please pray that whoever is torturing\nme so will stop, and find some healing for him- or herself. Please pray\nfor my being healed from this latest wound (which falls on top of a\nwhole slew of other wounds...). Please pray that I can find a new job\nin a place where the corporate culture does its best to prevent such\nharrassment from happening in the first place, and swiftly acts\nappropriately when something occurs despite its best precautions. (This\ncompany, in my opinion, has pretty words about how sexual harrassment\nisn't tolerated but when you get right down to it, how is it that one\nfemale engineer can be touched inappropriately, left obsene or\nthreatening notes, left obscene pictures, spoken to lewdly, etc, seven\ntimes in eight years in the same place? Pretty words from the company\ndo me no good when I'm terrified or healing from the latest assault.)\n\nAnd please pray that I don't turn into an automaton because of this.\nThat's my bad habit: \"ignore it and it will go away\", \"you're not worth\nanyone's time so don't go talking to anyone about this\", \"you're right,\nyou are a sub-human piece of garbage and deserve to be treated this\nway\", \"you are just an object\", \"you prostitute your mind to this\ncompany so why can't others expect you to prostitute your body there as\nwell?\", \"what makes you think women aren't just possessions, and\nnothing more than sex organs and their ability to perform the sex act?\"\nThis is the kind of thinking that can catapault one into a major\ndepressive episode; please pray that these thoughts don't come into\nmy head and stay there, triggering depression.\n\nPlease pray that this latest trauma doesn't come between me and God.\nIn a way, a wound like this is an invitation to a deeper connection to\nGod, and it's also a possible trigger for a spiritual crisis that can\nseparate one mentally from God. (I know God doesn't drop me from his\nloving hand, but it's awfully easy for me to walk to the edge of the\nhand, look down, think I'm falling and forget that God's still holding\non to me.)\n\nAlthough this probably isn't entirely appropriate for this newsgroup,\nI really can use the kind of loving support you all provide. For this\nreason I hope good Mr. Moderator allows me this latest indulgence. After\nall, he's allowed me the thermometer note, and a few other off-the-wall\ntopics.\n\nThanks in advance to everyone for your support and prayers. Peace to you,\nEsther\n", "unsubscribe\n\n", "\n...\n\nUpdate:\n\n\tNo, I or my friends with me now have not delt with him, but we\ndid try to call him, and there's no answer at his phone.\n\n\tThe call was made at midnight EST; God knows what time that is\nin Arizona.\n\n\tWe'll try again later.\n\n\tAnybody want to saturate his mail box?\n", "\n\nI think one only needs to scan Mr. Davidsson's bibliography to see what kind\nof objective sources he uses. ", "Archive-name: rec-autos/part1\n\n[most recent changes, 15 March 1993: addition of alt.autos.karting -- rpw]\n\n === Welcome to Rec.Autos.* ===\n\nThis article is sent out automatically each month, and contains a general\ndescription of the purpose of each of the automotive newsgroups, and\nsome suggested guidelines for discussions. The keywords `Monthly Posting'\nwill always appear to make killing this article easy for users of\nnewsreaders with kill facilities. This article is posted to all autos\ngroups, but followups are directed only to rec.autos. If you don't\nunderstand what this means, ask your system administrator for help, or at\nleast for copies of the newuser documentation. Failing that, please\nsubscribe to the newsgroup news.announce.newusers and read the\ndocumentation provided there.\n\nIntroduction to the Rec.Autos newsgroup hierarchy:\n\nrec.autos.tech\n\nis intended for technical discussions of automobiles, their design,\nconstruction, diagnosis, and service. Other discussions are largely\ninappropriate, especially For Sale ads.\n\nrec.autos.sport\n\nis intended for discussion of legal, organized competition involving\nautomobiles. Technical discussions are appropriate insofar as they apply\nto competition vehicles. Discussion from either of two viewpoints,\nspectator and participant, is encouraged. Arguments about sports cars are\nlargely inappropriate, as are most other discussions. For Sale ads are\ninappropriate unless they are for competition vehicles and/or equipment.\nDiscussions of illegal events are marginal; one should probably avoid\nadvocating breaking the law. (remember, the FBI reads Usenet!)\n\nrec.autos.driving\n\nis intended for discussions related to the driving of automobiles.\nAlso, if you must discuss 55 vs. 65, or radar detectors, or boneheads, do it here.\n\nrec.autos.vw\n\nis intended for discussion of issues related to the use and ownership\nof automobiles manufactured by Volkswagen (this includes VWs, Audis,\nSeats, etc.) It was created on the grounds that the info-vw mailing\nlist was very successful. It should not be presumed from the existence\nof this group that it is appropriate to create many groups to cover many\ndifferent marques; groups specific to individual marques should only be\ncreated on demonstration of sufficient interest, via some avenue such as\na mailing list.\n\nrec.audio.car\n\nis not properly part of the rec.autos.* hierarchy. it is, however,\nthe correct place for discussion of automotive audio equipment, and\nso is mentioned here.\n\nrec.autos.antique\n\nis intended for the discussion of older cars (usually more than 25 years\nold, although this is not a hard-and-fast rule.)\n\nalt.hotrod\n\nis not part of the hierarchy, but also of potential interest to the\nrec.autos reader. it is gatewayed to the moderated hotrod mailing\nlist, and is for serious discussion of modifying and developing\nperformance vehicles.\n\nalt.autos.rod-n-custom\n\nalso not part of the `official' hierarchy; devoted to that peculiar\nAmerican hobby of customizing older cars.\n\nalt.autos.karting\n\nfor the discussion of the popular motorsport and hobby, karting.\n\nrec.autos\n\nis intended to capture discussion on all other automotive topics.\n\n\nCrossposting:\n\nCrossposting occurs when more than one newsgroup name is included on\nthe Newsgroups: line in the article header; such articles will appear\nin all of the newsgroups listed.\n\nCrossposting is one of the most misunderstood and misused facilities on\nUsenet. You should only post to a group because you feel an article is\nappropriate; you should NEVER crosspost just to reach a particular\naudience. This distinction is subtle, but important. Radar Detector\narticles, for example, are more-or-less appropriate in rec.autos. They are\nalmost never appropriate in sci.electronics or rec.ham-radio, and the fact\nthat you might want to reach the audience in sci.electronics or\nrec.ham-radio is NOT adequate justification for posting to either group.\n\nCrossposting between any or all of the rec.autos.* groups is usually\ninappropriate; if you find yourself doing so, consider whether or not it is\ntruly advisable, before sending your article. Consider setting Followup-To:\nto point to only one newsgroup if you feel you must crosspost.\n\nCrossposting between rec.autos.* and misc.consumers is chancy at best; in\nparticular flame wars over the speed limit in the US and/or the use of\nradar detectors should NEVER be crossposted between any of these groups.\n\nMost readers of sci.electronics and rec.radio.* couldn't care less about\nthe police radar and radar detector arguments that go on endlessly in\nrec.autos.\n\nIt is an excellent idea to check the Newsgroups: and Followup-to: lines of\narticles before posting a followup. In particular, be wary of posting to\nmisc.test, rec.arts.startrek.*, or talk.bizarre, or any combination of these\nthree. The life you save may be your own.\n\nDistribution:\n\nThere is a field in the header of any news article which allows you to\n(partially) control where the article goes; it is called the Distribution\nfield. It may be very useful for many reasons; it should also serve\nas a reminder that news is a very large and widespread system.\n\nThe distribution of rec.autos.* is fairly extensive. As of this writing, \nthe Automotive newsgroups are known to reach most of Europe, Australia,\nNew Zealand, and some locations in Japan. With this in mind, I offer the\nfollowing hints about use of the Distribution: field in your article\nheaders, and on article content.\n\n1) Please take care not to send for-sale ads about clapped out Ford\nMavericks in New Jersey to France or California; i doubt that anyone in\neither place will care, except for my girlfriend, who for some strange\nreason likes Mavericks (but only 4-door Mavericks, at that.)\n\n2) When posting technical questions, please include the market for which\nyour car was manufactured. For example, there are a number of differences\nbetween a European-market Ford Escort and a US-market Escort. Likewise,\nall 1750cc and early 2000cc Alfa Romeos reached the US with Spica Fuel\ninjection; European market cars usually got carbs (often Webers). These\ndifferences can be important to your readers; make your situation clear.\nFailure to do so can lead to pointless flame wars and a significant\nspread of misinformation.\n\n3) Be careful about your capacities and specifications when posting;\nin the US we get a mix of Metric and English system values, whereas\nEurope is almost entirely on the Metric system. A future edition\nof this monthly posting will contain a list of commonly-used\nabbreviations that may not be known in some places that rec.autos\nreaches; this cuts both ways so let us not be parochial about it.\n\n4) Use the Distribution: field to limit where your article goes, when\npossible. Within North America, the values na (north america), can\n(canada), and usa may be used. in addition, the two-letter state\nabbreviations of the US are supported in some cases; e.g. if i wanted\nto send an article only to New York and New Jersey, i could put\n\"ny,nj\" in a Distribution field. note that multiple, comma-separated\nvalues are legal. these distribution fields vary widely, however, so\nyou should check with your local sysadmin to find out what is likely\nto be supported in your area.\n\nThe Dangers of Overgeneralization:\n\nTo amplify a warning from the distribution section of this article:\nBe wary of making foolish assumptions about all cars, tires, etc. What is\ntrue for a 1973 Buick with a 455cid engine may be quite utterly wrong for a\n1976 Honda with a 1200cc engine. Headlight laws in Sweden are decidedly\ndifferent from those in Idaho.\n\nThe Need for Adequate Specification:\n\nWhen you ask a question, please give a reasonable amount of information;\ne.g., if you have a question about your Honda, please specify year,\nmodel, engine size, etc. Otherwise, most answers to your question may be\nquite useless.\n\n\nConcerning Lemons:\n\nAt one time or another, every auto manufacturer has manufactured a lemon or\ntwo; even Honda admits to this. Please don't waste everyone's time by\nannouncing to the world that your `brand x' automobile is terrible, so all\n`brand x' automobiles are terrible, so no one should ever buy a car from\nthe `brand x' company. Such articles are worse than useless, because they\ncause substantial wasted bandwidth while carrying little or no useful\ninformation.\n\n\nConcerning Flames:\n\nAs much as we might wish it, a flame-free newsgroup is something that most\nlikely will never occur. Here are some guidelines for flames and how\nto deal with them (a list of flame-prone topics follows in the next section\nof this posting):\n\nIf you post something truly obnoxious and inflammatory, don't imagine for a\nminute that including the words `No Flames' will work. It won't, and\nyou'll get exactly what you deserve.\n\nIf you're going to flame, you're more likely to get away with it if you can\ncite a fact or maybe a well-known reference. No one is likely to believe\nbald, unsupported assertions.\n\nBe careful about who you choose to insult. Consider not insulting anyone.\n\n\nAsking the Question:\n\nIt is a bad idea to post a question and end it with a phrase like `Please\nsend email, I don't read this group'. It is a much better idea to\nend the question with `Please send email, if there is sufficient interest\nI'll summarize the results in a later posting. I may miss posted responses\nto this request'.\n\nAnswering the Question:\n\nIf someone wants to hop up their Yugo, don't tell them to get a Mustang.\nEither be silent, or give them useful advice. If someone wants advice on\ndefending a speeding ticket, don't tell them to obey the law next time --\nit's offensive, presumes guilt which is not proven, and doesn't directly\naddress the original question. In general, don't post in order to see\nyour words in print, and don't post in order to enjoy feeling smug and\nself-righteous.\n\n\nStale and/or Inflammatory Topics:\n\nCertain topics are considered stale by `old timers'; while discussion of\nthem is certainly ok, and new, factual information is welcome, ravings\nabout them are extremely tiresome, and may get the person who posts them\nignored altogether. Some topics are naturally inflammatory; it is\ndifficult if not impossible to have meaningful discussion of them. Some\nof these topics include the following:\n\n1) the 55mph speed limit in the US: Pro and Con\n\n2) discussions about the morality and legality of the sale and usage of\n radar detectors.\n\n3) discussions over which radar detector is best.\n\n4) discussions over what is a sports car (this is one reason why\n rec.autos.sport is not a `sports car' group -- everyone would argue\n about what constitutes a `sports car'.)\n\n5) disputes over whether or not US Federal law protects the driver's\n right to own and operate a radar detector\n\n6) `Buy American' discussions\n\n7) `clever' bumper stickers and personalized license plates\n\n8) cars are terrible\n\n9) What kind of car did Maxwell Smart drive?\n [when I have a complete, accurate answer it will be added to the\n commonly-asked questions article which is also posted monthly.\n Until then, please don't waste bandwidth on this topic. -- rpw]\n\n\n\nPlease direct comments and suggestions about this article to:\n\n welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com", "Dear Friends,\n\nHi!\n\nI need some information about the Organization ofISlamic Conference (OIC). Does anyone know if there are books, articles, or journals that contains information regarding this organization? If you know would you please send me an E.MAil at my address! I thank you in advance and hope to hear soon since I need thisat present.\n\nRegards!!", "I think Mark was talking about making it available to people who didn't\nhave email in the first place.\n\nIf anybody in the Boston area wants a sci.space feed by honest-to-gosh UUCP\n(no weird offline malreaders), let me know. I'll also hand out logins to\nanyone who wants one, especially the Boston Chapter of NSS (which I keep forgetting\nto re-attend).\n\n\n", "However valuable, this discussion does NOT belong on comp.org.acm or on\ncomp.org.ieee. Please edit your followups to include only the appropriate\nnewsgroups.\n", "\n\nTry lyman.pppl.gov -- /pub/8051\n", "Does anyone know how I can obtain information about the ICS widget data book?\nI only have their email address, and they don't seem to be reading (or \nreplying) to their mail.\n\n\n -------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n! Jan-Olav Eide, Software Engineer / Systems Administrator !\n! snail mail : ! email : !\n! Nordic Offshore Systems ! olav@nordic-offshore.no ! \n! Drilling Information Services ! voice : !\n! Ringsveien 3, Box 185 ! (+47) 67125580 ext. 211 !\n! 1321 Stabekk ! fax : ! \n! Norway ! (+47) 67125401 !\n! \"I don't believe in astrology. But then I'm a Capricorn, and !\n! Capricorns don't believe in astrology\" !\n --------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n\n-- ", "\n\n\n[stuff deleted]\n\n\n\n\n\nWhat's it gonna cost? \n\nGinny McBride Oregon Health Sciences University\nmcbride@ohsu.edu Networks & Technical Services", "I'm trying to find Tom Haapanen, formerly tom@wes.on.ca\nwho was the keeper of the FAQ for this newsgroup.\nHe was working at Watrerloo Engineering Software,\nbut netfind can't even find that (but it may have\nbeen a uucp connection). If anyone knows how to\ncontact Tom, please let me know.", "If anyone has the current Moto Guzzi National Owners Club\naddress please e-mail it to me. Thanks in advance!\nT.K.", "\nNah... I figure most people would be so busy reading that they wouldn't\nhave *time* to post. :-) :-) :-)\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tspl", "Anyone know of a phillies mailing list out there? .... they don't get much\ncoverage up here in Grand Rapids, MI *sob*\n\n--", "\nThe SEI. Software Engineering Institute, a DoD funded part of Carnegie Mellon\nUniversity. You can read about part of it in Ed Yourdon's The Decline and\nFall of the American Programmer (Yourdon Press).\n\nJust passing thru.....", "only\n(to\nwas\nmjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com\n", "please subscrive me.", "\nPlease post to news, too.\n\n\n\n", "Hi, folks out there !\n\nI don't know whether I am in the right newsgroup, but I have a question.\n\nIf I am completely wrong here in this group, could you mail me the right name \nof the correct newsgroup ?\n\nA friend of mine is studying electronics at the Technical University in \nKarlsruhe/Germany since one year.\n\nHe wants to know whether there are possibilities to study audio control \nengineering in the U.S.A. .\n\nDoes anybody know how to get information about these studies in the U.S.A. ?\nCould you send me information like (e-mail)adresses of the universities, \n\"quality\" of these studies, and so on ?\n\nIs it possible to e-mail the universities directly to get information ?\n\nDo the universities send information via e-mail ?\n\nPlease could you answer via e-mail, because I don't read this newsgroup \nregularly.\n\n\nThanks in advance.\n\nStephan Jaeger", "\nsubscribe min@stella.skku.ac.kr\n\n", "\nieee.general\n\nand\n\nieee.announce\n", "Subject pretty much says it all - I'm looking for Johnny Hart's (creator\nof the B.C. comic stip) mailing address.\n\nFor those of you who haven't seen them, take a look at his strips for Good\nFriday and Easter Sunday. Remarkable witness!\n\nIf anyone can help me get in touch with him, I'd really appreciate it! \nI've contacted the paper that carries his strip and -- they'll get back to\nme with it!\n\nThanks for your help,\n\nDave Arndt\nSt. Peter's Evangelical Lutheran Church\nSt. Peter, MN 56082", "I am on the list under two addresses, I think:\n\ttom@capmgtsci.com\nand\n\tzuma!tom@netcomsv.netcom.com\n\nPlease delete the second one, \n\tzuma!tom@netcomsv.netcom.com\n\nThanks. Sorry for the screw up.\n", "CALL FOR VOTES\n\nThis is the official 2nd Call For Votes for this newsgroup.\n\nNAME OF PROPOSED NEWSGROUP: \n==========================\n\n soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya\n\n\nCHARTER: \n=======\n\n A religious newsgroup, which would mainly be devoted to \nfostering an understanding and appraisal of the Ahmadiyya Muslim\nCommunity, its beliefs, ideology and philosophy. It will also \ndiscuss the distinction between Ahmadiyya Muslim Community and \nother branches of Islam.\n \n In addition this newsgroup will also discuss the beliefs, \nteachings, and philosophy of all the other major religions to pro-\nmote universal religious appreciation, awareness, and tolerance.\n\n The newsgroup may also be used to post important religious\nevents within the world wide Ahmadiyya Islamic Community.\n\n\nVOTING INSTRUCTIONS: \n====================\n\nVoting is being held since the first call for votes appeared (May 4, 1993),\nand will continue untill May 25, 1993 (23:59:59 GMT)\n\nAll votes should be received within this period. It gives a total\nof 21 days for all to vote.\n\nAll votes in _favor_ of creation of the proposed newsgroup should\nbe sent in a form of a e-mail message to:\n\n \n SRIA-YES@UCSU.COLORADO.EDU\n\n\nwith a clear statement in the body of the message like:\n\n I vote YES for soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya\n I vote in favor of s.r.i.a.\n etc.\n\nSimilarly all votes _against_ the proposed newsgroup should be \nsent in a form of a e-mail message to:\n\n\n SRIA-NO@UCSU.COLORADO.EDU\n\n\nwith a clear statement in the body of the message like:\n\n I vote NO for soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya\n I vote against the creation of s.r.i.a.\n etc.\n\n\n* You may also include your vote in the SUBJECT header of your mail.\n\n* Please make sure to include your FULL NAME, if your mailer does\n not do that for you. \n\n* One person may only vote ONCE. No matter how many e-mail accounts\n s/he has. Only one vote per person shall be considered valid.\n\n* Any ambiguous votes like \"I vote YES for S.R.I.A., if ....\" shall \n only be considered comments and would NOT be counted as votes.\n\n* Votes received _after_ 23:59:59 GMT, on May 25, 1993, will not\n be valid and not counted.\n\n* In the event of multiple votes being received from the same\n person, only the last one will be counted. If you change your \n mind regarding the way you have voted, send your new vote again,\n your previous vote shall be discarded.\n \n* Posting to USENET will NOT be counted a vote.\n\n* Please DO NOT send any votes to the e-mail address of the per-\n son who has posted this CVF. Those votes shall not be counted\n either.\n\n\nNOTE: An acknowledgement shall be sent to everyone who votes.Two \nadditional CFV's will be posted during the course of the vote.\nNumber(s) of \"YES\" or \"NO\" votes will not be disclosed during the\nthe voting period, at the end of which all votes shall be made\npublic.\n\n\nPURPOSE OF THE NEWSGROUP: \n========================\n\n The following are the main purposes this group shall achieve:\n\n i) To highlight the common beliefs of all major religions \n and philosophical traditions as they relate to Ahmadiyya \n Muslim Community.\n\n ii) To discuss the doctrines, origin and teachings the Ahmad-\n iyya Muslim Community, a dynamic world-wide movement.\n\n iii) To expound Islamic teachings and beliefs in the Holy \n Quran and Islamic traditions from the Ahmadiyya Islamic\n perspective.\n\n iv) To emphasize and discuss the similarities between Ahmadi \n Muslims and followers of other religions of the world and \n to explore how understanding and respect for each other's\n faith can be brought about to eliminate religious intol-\n erance and malice among people of all religious and phil-\n osophical traditions.\n \n v) To look into the origin and teachings of all religions in\n general and of Islam and Ahmadiyya Muslim Movement in par-\n ticular, and to use the commonality of origin to foster\n better understanding among Ahmadi Muslims and other people\n and to promote an acceptance of universality of fundamental\n rights to the freedom of conscience.\n\n vi) To point out current world problems and suggest solutions \n to these problems, as offered by different religions and \n systems of ethical philosophies.\n\n vii) To investigate the implications of science on religion \n with particular emphasis on the Ahmadi Muslim perspective,\n but with openness to dialogue with people of all religions\n and philosophical traditions with reasoned positions as to\n the relationship between religion and empirical science,\n logic, and scientific ethics. \n \n viii) To exchange important news and views about the Ahmadiyya\n Muslim Community and of other religions.\n\n ix) To add diversity to the existing religious newsgroups pre- \n sent on Usenet in the interest of promoting a forum for\n decorous dialogue. \n\n x) To inquire why religious persecution is on the rise in the\n world and suggest solutions to remedy the ever deterior-\n ating situation in the world in general and in the Islamic\n world in particular. \n\n xi) To commemorate the contributions to humanity, society and\n world peace made by the founders and followers of all\n religions in general and by the International Ahmadiyya\n Muslim community in particular.\n\n\nTYPE: \n====\n\nThe group will be MODERATED for orderly and free religious dialo-\ngue. The moderation will NOT prevent disagreement, dissent, or \ncontroversy based on a difference of beliefs or doctrine; rather,\nthe moderators will seek mainly to discourage gratuitously deroga-\ntory, abusive, or squalid language, and the introduction of issues\nwhich are irrelevant based on the provisions of this charter. \n\nThe moderators have been chosen through personal e-mail and through\na general consensus among the proponents by discussion in news.groups.\nThe following moderators have been proposed and agreed upon:\n\nModerator: Nabeel A. Rana \nCo-Moderator: Dr. Tahir Ijaz \n\n\n\nA BRIEF DESCRIPTION ABOUT AHMADIYYA ISLAM:\n===============================================\n\n\n The Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam, an international organi-\nsation, was found in 1889 in Qadian, India. The founder of this\nmovement, Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835-1908), was proclaimed to \nbe the Promised Reformer of this age as foretold in the Scriptures\nof almost all major religions of the world. He claimed to be the \nfulfillment of the long awaited second comming of Jesus Christ\n(metaphorically), the Muslim Mahdi, and the Promised Messiah.\n\n The claims of Hazrat Ahmad raised storms of hostility and\nextreme opposition, which are often witnessed in the history of \ndivine reformers. Even today this sect is being persecuted especial-\nly in some of the Muslim regimes. The right of Ahmadi Muslims to \nopenly practice their religion and to define themselves as Muslims\nhas been severely restricted in many Muslim Countries. The United\nNations, human rights organizations such as Amnesty International\nand top leaderships of some countries have voiced their concerns \nagainst this denial of basic human and civil liberaties to the\nmembers of this movement, but so far to no avail.\n\n Despite the opposition and persecution, the movement cont-\ninues to grow with a current membership of millions from around the\nworld in over 130 countries, who come from diverse ethnic and cul-\ntural backgrounds.\n\n The movement is devoted to world peace and strives towards\ndeveloping a better understanding of all religions. Ahmadi Muslims\nhave always been opposed to all forms of violence, bigotry, reli-\ngious intolerance and fundamentalism.\n\n Among its many philanthropic activities, the sect has es-\ntablished a network of hundreds of schools, hospitals, and clinics\nin many third world countries. These institutions are staffed by\nvolunteer professionals and are fully financed by the movement's\ninternal resources. The movement stresses the importance of educa-\ntion and leadership. Its members have included a high number of\nprofessionals as well as world class individuals.\n\n The Ahmadiyya mission is to bring about a universal moral\nreform, establish peace and justice, and to unite mankind under\none universal brotherhood.\n\n\nNEWSGROUP CREATION: \n==================\n\n The discussion for this proposed newsgroup has now offi-\ncially ended. Voting will be held for three weeks. If the news-\ngroup gets 2/3rd majority AND 100 more \"YES/Create\" votes than\n\"NO/don't create\" votes; the newsgroup shall be created. \n\n\nABOUT THE VOTE-TAKER: \n====================\n\n Mr. Anthony Lest has been asked by the proponents of\nthis newsgroup to act as an official impartial vote-taker for the\nproposed newsgroup. He has no objection to use his workstation\nfor the purpose of vote-taking. Neither the University of Colora-\ndo, nor Anthony Lest has anything to do with the proposal of the\nnewsgroup. They are just collecting the votes as a neutral third\nparty.\n\nQUESTIONS OR COMMENTS:\n=====================\n\n Any questions or comments about the proposed newsgroup\nmay be sent to:\n Nabeel A. Rana ", "I am interested in finding other Physical Therapy Students on the\nnet...If you are one, or you know anyone could you get into contact\nwith me via email, my address is\n\ngecko@camelot.bradley.edu\n\n\n\t\t\t\tthankyou", "Hi there, I can't seem to get mail to you. Can you tell me your entire\nadress, or even your dotted decimal address?\n\n (ie. 131.202.3.10)\n\n Thanks,\n rocket@calvin.cs.unb.ca \n\n-- ", "\nThis is also being replied to via e-mail. I dialed my university\nlibrarian, and he looked it up:\n\nLoma Linda University Medical Center\nLoma Linda, CA 92350\n\nI don't know an Internet address for them, but they can be reached by\ntelephone at (714) 824-4300.\n\nGood luck.\n", "Could somebody please tell me if there is a Dodgers newsletter on the Net,\nand if so how to subscribe? Thanks,\nJoel\n", "JOB OPPORTUNITY\n\t\t ---------------\n\n\nSERI(Systems Engineering Research Institute), of KIST(Korea\nInstitute of Science and Technology) is looking for the resumes\nfor the following position and need them by the end of June (6/30). \nIf you are interested, send resumes to:\n\n\tCAD/CAE lab (6th floor)\n\tSystems Engineering Research Institute\n\tKorea Institute of Science and Technology \n\tYousung-Gu, Eoeun-Dong,\n\tDaejon. Korea\n\t305-600\n\n\n\tCOMPANY: Systems Engineering Research Institute\n\n\tTITLE : Senior Research Scientist\n\n\tJOB DESCRIPTION : In depth knowledge of C.\n\tWorking knowledge of Computer Aided Design.\n\tWorking knowledge of Computer Graphics.\n\tWorking knowledge of Virtual Reality.\n\tSkills not required but desirable : knowledge of\n\tdata modeling, virtual reality experience,\n\tunderstanding of client/server architecture.\n\n\tREQUIREMENT : Ph.D\n\n\tJOB LOCATION : Daejon, Korea\n\n\tContact Info : Chul-Ho, Lim\n\t\t CAD/CAE lab (6th floor)\n\t\t Systems Engineering Research Institute\n\t\t Korea Institute of Science and Technology \n\t \t Yousung-Gu, Eoeun-Dong,\n\t\t Daejon. Korea\n\t\t 305-600", "--\n\nAre the any Opel GT's out there? I'm wondering if there are enough to\nstarting a mail list...\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nMatthew R. Singer MIT Lincoln Laboratory\n(617) 981-3771 244 Wood Street\nsinger@ll.mit.edu Lexington, MA 02173", "I have seen a fair bit of traffic recently concerning Epilepsy and\nseizures. I am also interested in this subject -- I have a son with\nEpilepsy and I am very active with the local association. I posted a\nmessage like this a few months ago and received no replies, but here it\nis again.\n\nIs anyone interested in participating in a mailing list on Epilepsy and\nseizures? This would allow us to hold discussions and share\ninformation via electronic mail. I already run a Listserver for two\nother groups, so the mechanics would be easy.\n\nIf you are interested, mail me a note. If I get enough replies, I will\nmake it happen and provide you with the details.\n\nBTW, I have also started a database on Epilepsy. This is part of my\nresearch on natural language question answering systems. Users of this\nservice are able to ask questions about Epilepsy and the program\nsearches the database and retrieves its best response. The technology\nworks by comparing your question against a set of questions that have\nbeen seen before. All new questions that are not answered are recorded\nand used to improve the system.\n\nThis database is still small and sparse, but we are adding new\ninformation. To try it out, do the following\n\n\ttelnet debra.dgbt.doc.ca\n\tlogin: chat\n\n\tThen select the Epilepsy item from the menu of databases.\n\n-- \nAndrew Patrick, Ph.D. Communications Research Centre, Ottawa, CANADA\n andrew@calvin.dgbt.doc.CA", "Hello,\n \nI've been on the DKBtrace/PoVray mailing list out of trearn.bitnet\nfor some time now, but when I tried to post the other day the\nlistserv told me that the list doesn't exist! So I got a global\nlist of groups from the listserv and - - NOTHING! I grepped every\nstring I could think of. If Frank, Ville Saari, Andre Beck, or anyone\nelse who's a regular on DKB-L can tell me what is going on, please do!\n \nRegards,", "Is CCI still published? If so, does anyone have their address?\n\n", "Would someone please send me James Oberg's email address, if he has\none and if someone reading this list knows it? I wanted to send\nhim a comment on something in his terraforming book.\n\n\tPaul F. Dietz\n\tdietz@cs.rochester.edu", "I just about closed this once before. I'm now doing so for real, after\ntonight's posting.\n", "\nAnd guess who's here in your place.\n\nPlease finger xyzzy@gnu.ai.mit.edu for information, or if you are\na mail/news only site, mail xyzzy@gnu.ai.mit.edu with the subject line\n\"SEND FINGER\".\n\n", "Please remove me from this mailing list - we finally\ngot our news feed!\n\n\tRon L.\n", "About three weeks ago on the SPACE list, someone was quoting a source on the\nrelative traffic and rankings of this listserv. A figure of 88th in\ntraffic(?) was given. Unfortunately I did not clip the message and I would\nlike to know the source of the rankings list. If anybody still has that\ndiscussion on their disk or knows the source (or is the poster himself!)\nI'd appreciate getting that reference. Being on the road I have temporarily\nunsubscribed to the list to cut down mail box stuffing so please reply\nvia e-mail to lek@aip.org OR 71160.2356@compuserve.com or I won't get your\nanswer!", ") From: coates@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Jeffery David Coates)\n) Subject: TEST\n) Date: 23 Apr 1993 21:09:29 GMT\n) Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute\n) \n) \n) \n) Test\n) \nFailed\n", "*****************************************************************************\n* Lyme Disease Electronic Mail Network *\n* LymeNet Newsletter *\n*****************************************************************************\n Volume 1 - Number 09 - 4/26/93\n\nI. Introduction\nII. Announcements\nIII. News from the wires\nIV. Questions 'n' Answers\nV. Op-Ed Section\nVI. Jargon Index\nVII. How to Subscribe, Contribute and Get Back Issues\n\nI. ***** INTRODUCTION *****\n\nIn this issue of the Newsletter, we learn of the CDC's announced concern for\nthe \"resurgence of infectious diseases\" in the United States. Thanks to\nJonathan Lord for sending me the UPI release. The CDC announced they would\nfeature a new series of articles in the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly\nReport on these infectious diseases (LD is one of them). We will keep you\nup to date on this series.\n\nIn addition, we feature a The Wall Street Journal article on the legal issues\nsurrounding LD. We also look at Lyme's effects from the perspective of\nurologists in an abstract entitled \"Urinary Dysfunction in Lyme Disease.\"\n\nFinally, Terry Morse asks an intriguing question about a tick's habitat.\n\n-Marc.\n\n\nII. ***** ANNOUNCEMENTS *****\n\nSOURCE: The Lyme Disease Update\nSUBJECT: Call for Articles\n\nAttention Health Care Professionals:\n\nThe Lyme Disease Update would like to publish your articles on Lyme disease\ndiagnosis, Lyme treatment, and the effects on Lyme on Lyme patients' physical\nand mental health.\n\nThe LDU has a monthly circulation of 6,000. Our mailing list includes Lyme\npatients, physicians, researchers, county health departments, and over 100\nLyme support groups nationwide. We strive to give our readers up-to-date\ninformation on Lyme disease prevention, diagnosis, and treatment, and a\nsource for support and practical advice on living with Lyme disease.\n\nArticles for the LDU should be approximately 900 to 1200 words and should\naddress Lyme disease issues in non-scientific language. To submit your\narticle, mail to: Lyme Disease Update\n P.O. Box 15711-0711\n Evansville, IN 47716\n or FAX to: 812-471-1990\n\nOne year subscriptions to the Lyme Disease Update are $19 ($24 outside the\nUS). Mail your subscription requests to the above address, or call\n812-471-1990 for more information.\n\n\nIII. ***** NEWS FROM THE WIRES ******\n\nSender: Jonathan Lord \nSubject: RESURGENCE OF INFECTIOUS DISEASE CONCERNS CDC\nDate: Thursday April 15, 1993\n\nATLANTA (UPI) -- A resurgence of infectious diseases blamed on newly\nemerging viruses and bacteria pose a major challenge for the nation's\nhealth care system, federal health officials said Thursday.\n\nThe Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, reporting its latest\nfindings in an investigation of contaminated hamburger meat that\nsickened hundreds in 4 states and killed at least four, said it will\nput renewed emphasis on battling infectious diseases.\n\nPart of that emphasis includes a new series titled \"Emerging\nInfectious Diseases\" to be featured in the CDC's Morbidity & Mortality\nWeekly Report, which has a wide circulation in the health community.\nThe issue also will top the agenda of a two-day meeting of scientific\ncounselors to update the CDC's draft plan for dealing with the growing\nthreat of infectious ailments.\n\n\"This is an issue that has been coming and we do have a responsibility\nto deal with it,\" said Dr. Ruth Berkelman, deputy director of the CDC's\nNational Center for Infectious Diseases.\n\nThere were more cases of malaria in the U.S. in 1992 than in any year\nsince the 1960s, and Latin America is experiencing a cholera epidemic,\nthe first in this century, she said.\n\nResistance of disease-causing agents to antibiotics is also a problem.\n\"We are seeing much more antibiotic resistance than we have in the past\"\nBerkleman said. She said even common ear infections frequently seen in\nchildren are becoming resistant to antibiotic treatment.\n\n\"Despite predictions earlier this century that infectious diseases\nwould soon be eliminated as a public health problem, infectious diseases\nremain the major cause of death worldwide and a leading cause of illness\nand death in the United States,\" the CDC said.\n\nIt cited the emergence since the 1970s of a \"myriad\" of newly\nidentified pathogens and syndromes, such as Escherichia coli O157:H7, a\ndeadly bacterial infection; the hepatitis C virus; HIV, the virus that\ncauses AIDS; Legionnaires disease; Lyme disease; and toxic shock syndrome.\n\n\"The incidences of many diseases widely presumed to be under control,\nsuch as cholera, malaria and tuberculosis, have increased in many areas,\"\nthe CDC said. It said efforts at control and prevention have been\nundermined by drug resistance.\n\n=====*=====\n\nSOURCE: WALL STREET JOURNAL\nREFERENCE: 04/15/93, pB1\nHEADLINE: Lyme-Disease Ruling Raises Liability Issues\n\nThe tick that causes Lyme disease may have found a new way to cause\ndamage: legal liability.\n\nA federal judge's decision holding a property owner liable for not\ndoing enough to protect workers from Lyme disease is getting as much\nattention as the latest medical study on the disease, a flu-like\nillness that can cause severe physical and mental disabilities and in\nrare instances death. The decision last week has put property owners\non notice that they may have to do more than protect themselves from\nthe ticks-they also may have to protect themselves from litigation if\nsomeone becomes infected while on the property.\n\nThe decision by U.S. District Judge Robert J. Ward in New York came\nafter a week-long trial in a case involving four track workers for the\nLong Island Railroad. Judge Ward found that the workers contracted the\ndisease after they were bitten by ticks while on the job. He ordered\nthe New York state-owned commuter line to pay the workers more than\n$560,000 to compensate for pain and suffering, in addition to medical\nexpenses and lost wages.\n\nSummer camps, schools, companies with facilities in rural or\nsemirural areas, and homeowners who rent to vacationers are among the\ngroups that need to be worried about this ruling, says Stephen L.\nKass, an attorney at New York law firm Berle, Kass & Case, who wrote a\nlegal article three years ago warning property owners of the potential\nliability. Even a family that invites friends over for a backyard\nbarbecue might be potentially liable.\n\nLawsuits for insect bites, while rare, aren't unheard-of. A summer\nvacationer in Southampton, N.Y., last year sued the owner of the home\nshe rented, claiming that a tick on the property gave her Rocky\nMountain spotted fever. In 1988, also on Long Island, a jury ordered\nan outdoor restaurant to pay more than $3 million to a patron who was\nstung by a bee, causing an allergic reaction and permanent\nquadriplegia. The judge later threw out the award, citing no evidence\nthat a beehive was near the restaurant.\n\nBut lawyers say that the attention to Lyme disease throughout the\ncountry -- it's most prevalent in New England, the Middle Atlantic\nstates, Wisconsin, Minnesota and the Northwest -- may make this\nparticular insect bite a particularly litigious one.\n\nThe illness already has proved to be a source of controversy in the\ncourtroom over such issues as the type of medical care insurers will\ncover and medical malpractice claims against doctors for not\ndiagnosing the disease.\n\nLawyers say worker's-compensation claims related to Lyme disease\nhave become common in some states in recent years. Payments in\nworker's-compensation cases, however, are limited to medical costs and\nlost earnings.\n\nThe case before Judge Ward dealt with a potentially much more\nlucrative avenue for damages, because it involved the question of\nnegligence. Unlike the worker's compensation process, the law governing\ninjuries to rail workers allows for a finding of negligence and, as a\nresult, for additional payments for pain and suffering. Property\nowners and lawyers say that negligence claims can be made in many\nother situations where people are exposed to the ticks that carry the\ndisease.\n\nIra M. Maurer, a partner at New York law firm Elkind, Flynn &\nMaurer, who represented the rail workers, says the decision will help\nto establish \"the duty of all sorts of property owners to protect\nagainst Lyme disease.\"\n\nLawyers caution that despite Judge Ward's decision, winning a\nlawsuit for damages caused by Lyme disease may prove difficult. For\none thing, victims have to demonstrate that they have pinned down when\nand where they got the tick bite. Judge Ward found that the plaintiffs\nin the railroad case got Lyme disease while working on property owned\nby the railroad, even though none of the men remembered being bitten.\nThe workers, who weren't outdoorsmen likely to be exposed elsewhere to\nthe insects, said they saw ticks in the high grass that surrounded\nsome work sites.\n\nA spokeswoman for the railroad says that there was no proof that\nthe four men were bitten while on the job and that the railroad is\nconsidering an appeal. The railroad also disputes Judge Ward's finding\nthat it didn't do enough to protect employees. The spokeswoman says\nthe railroad provides track workers with insect repellent and special\npants to protect against bug bites.\n\nDebate in the scientific community over Lyme disease could open up\nsome legal defenses for property owners, such as questioning whether a\nvictim actually has the disease rather than some other illness.\nEarlier this week, the Journal of the American Medical Association\nreported that doctors overly diagnose patients as having Lyme disease.\nAnd damages awarded to a victim also might be influenced by medical\ndisputes over the degree of harm that Lyme disease causes.\n\nBecause of health and safety concerns, some groups and companies\nalready take special measures to protect against Lyme disease. Last\nyear, at its headquarters in Franklin Lakes, N.J., Becton, Dickinson &\nCo. began using Damminix, a pesticide made by EcoHealth Inc. of Boston\nthat is designed to kill ticks carrying the disease. The medical-\nsupply company's headquarters include a 120-acre park, and the company\nwas worried that employees who walk on its trails for recreation might\nget infected.\n\nRuth Lister, a spokeswoman for the American Camping Association in\nIndianapolis, says that many youth camps accredited by her\norganization also have begun to check children for ticks. And Carole\nKatz, a member of the board of the Fire Island Pines Property Owners\nAssociation, says her group spends $30,000 each year to treat their\n100-acre site off the coast of New York with the tick-killing\npesticide.\n\n=====*=====\n\nTITLE: Urinary dysfunction in Lyme disease.\nAUTHORS: Chancellor MB; McGinnis DE; Shenot PJ; Kiilholma P; Hirsch IH,\nDepartment of Urology, Jefferson Medical College, Thomas Jefferson\nUniversity, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.\nREFERENCE: J Urol 1993 Jan; 149 (1): 26-30\n\nLyme disease, which is caused by the spirochete Borrelia burgdorferi, is\nassociated with a variety of neurological sequelae. We describe 7 patients\nwith neuro-borreliosis who also had lower urinary tract dysfunction.\nUrodynamic evaluation revealed detrusor hyperreflexia in 5 patients and\ndetrusor areflexia in 2. Detrusor external sphincter dyssynergia was not\nnoted on electromyography in any patient. We observed that the urinary tract\nmay be involved in 2 respects in the course of Lyme disease: 1) voiding\ndysfunction may be part of neuro-borreliosis and 2) the spirochete may\ndirectly invade the urinary tract. In 1 patient bladder infection by the\nLyme spirochete was documented on biopsy. Neurological and urological\nsymptoms in all patients were slow to resolve and convalescence was\nprotracted. Relapses of active Lyme disease and residual neurological\ndeficits were common. Urologists practicing in areas endemic for Lyme\ndisease need to be aware of B. burgdorferi infection in the differential\ndiagnosis of neurogenic bladder dysfunction. Conservative bladder\nmanagement including clean intermittent catheterization guided by urodynamic\nevaluation is recommended.\n\n\nIV. ***** QUESTIONS 'N' ANSWERS *****\n\nNote: If you have a response to this question, please forward it to the\neditor.\n\nSender: Terry Morse \nSubject: Question on Lyme Vectors and Compost Piles\n\n When I visited my sister on Long Island, NY, I was cautioned to avoid the\ncompost heap in her back yard, as she thinks this is where she became\ninfected.\n\n A friend of mine here in Oregon who has a compost heap would like me to\nback that claim up with documentation. Do lyme-carrying ticks hang out in\ncompost heaps?\nThank you.\n\n\nV. ***** OP-ED SECTION *****\n\nThis section is open to all subscribers who would like to express an opinion.\n\n\nVI. ***** JARGON INDEX *****\n\nBb - Borrelia burgdorferi - The scientific name for the LD bacterium.\nCDC - Centers for Disease Control - Federal agency in charge of tracking\n diseases and programs to prevent them.\nCNS - Central Nervous System.\nELISA - Enzyme-linked Immunosorbent Assays - Common antibody test\nEM - Erythema Migrans - The name of the \"bull's eye\" rash that appears in\n ~60% of the patients early in the infection.\nIFA - Indirect Fluorescent Antibody - Common antibody test.\nLD - Common abbreviation for Lyme Disease.\nNIH - National Institutes of Health - Federal agency that conducts medical\n research and issues grants to research interests.\nPCR - Polymerase Chain Reaction - A new test that detects the DNA sequence\n of the microbe in question. Currently being tested for use in\n detecting LD, TB, and AIDS.\nSpirochete - The LD bacterium. It's given this name due to it's spiral\n shape.\nWestern Blot - A more precise antibody test.\n\n\nVII. ***** HOW TO SUBSCRIBE, CONTRIBUTE AND GET BACK ISSUES *****\n\nSUBSCRIPTIONS:\nAnyone with an Internet address may subscribe.\nSend a memo to listserv@Lehigh.EDU\nin the body, type:\nsubscribe LymeNet-L \n\nFAX subscriptions are also available. Send a single page FAX to 215-974-6410\nfor further information.\n\nDELETIONS:\nSend a memo to listserv@Lehigh.EDU\nin the body, type:\nunsubscribe LymeNet-L\n\nCONTRIBUTIONS:\nSend all contributions to LymeNet-L@Lehigh.EDU or FAX them to 215-974-6410.\nAll are encouraged to submit questions, news items, announcements, and\ncommentaries.\n\nBACK ISSUES:\nSend a memo to listserv@Lehigh.EDU\nin the body, type:\nget LymeNet-L/Newsletters x-yy (where x=vol # and yy=issue #)\n\nexample: get LymeNet-L/Newsletters 1-01 (will get vol#1, issue#01)\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nLymeNet - The Internet Lyme Disease Information Source\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nEditor-in-Chief: Marc C. Gabriel \n FAX: 215-974-6410\nContributing Editors: Carl Brenner \n John Setel O'Donnell \nAdvisors: Carol-Jane Stolow, Director\n William S. Stolow, President\n The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey (908-390-5027)\nChief Proofreader: Ed Mackey \n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nWHEN COMMENTS ARE PRESENTED WITH AN ATTRIBUTION, THEY DO NOT NECESSARILY\nREPRESENT THE OPINIONS/ANALYSES OF THE EDITOR.\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTHIS NEWSLETTER MAY BE REPRODUCED AND/OR POSTED ON BULLETIN BOARDS FREELY\nAS LONG AS IT IS NOT MODIFIED OR ABRIDGED IN ANY WAY.\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nSEND ALL BUG REPORTS TO mcg2@Lehigh.EDU.", "\n[byteocide]\n\nYou take two copies with a different registration id, compare them byte for \nbyte and you know where they are located. Usually you will be able to \nfind out what is what after that. \n\nAnd what keeps me form registering as John Doe from the company Public \nDomain, Yellow Brick Road 1, Tinseltown or something???\n\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGuido Klemans\n\nInternet: rcstage1@urc.tue.nl valid until 16 may 1993\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n'Listen very carefully, I will say this only ones.' Michelle of the resitance\n", "\nA practical suggestion, to be sure, but one could *also* peek into\nnews.lists, where Brian Reid has posted \"USENET Readership report for\nMar 93.\" Another posting called \"USENET READERSHIP SUMMARY REPORT FOR\nMAR 93\" gives the methodology and caveats of Reid's survey. (These\npostings failed to appear for a while-- I wonder why?-- but they are\nnow back.)\n\nReid, alas, gives us no measure of the \"power/influence\" of readers...\nSorry, Mark.\n\nI suspect Mark, dangling out there on Fidonet, may not get news.lists\nso I've mailed him copies of these reports.\n\nThe bottom line?\n\n +-- Estimated total number of people who read the group, worldwide.\n | +-- Actual number of readers in sampled population\n | | +-- Propagation: how many sites receive this group at all\n | | | +-- Recent traffic (messages per month)\n | | | | +-- Recent traffic (kilobytes per month)\n | | | | | +-- Crossposting percentage\n | | | | | | +-- Cost ratio: $US/month/rdr\n | | | | | | | +-- Share: % of newsrders\n | | | | | | | | who read this group.\n V V V V V V V V\n 88 62000 1493 80% 1958 4283.9 19% 0.10 2.9% sci.space \n\nThe first figure indicates that sci.space ranks 88th among most-read\nnewsgroups.\n\nI've been keeping track sporadically to watch the growth of traffic\nand readership. You might be entertained to see this.\n\nOct 91 55 71000 1387 84% 718 1865.2 21% 0.04 4.2% sci.space\nMar 92 43 85000 1741 82% 1207 2727.2 13% 0.06 4.1% sci.space\nJul 92 48 94000 1550 80% 1044 2448.3 12% 0.04 3.8% sci.space\nMay 92 45 94000 2023 82% 834 1744.8 13% 0.04 4.1% sci.space\n(some kind of glitch in estimating number of readers happens here)\nSep 92 45 51000 1690 80% 1420 3541.2 16% 0.11 3.6% sci.space \nNov 92 78 47000 1372 81% 1220 2633.2 17% 0.08 2.8% sci.space \n(revision in ranking groups happens here(?))\nMar 93 88 62000 1493 80% 1958 4283.9 19% 0.10 2.9% sci.space \n\nPossibly old Usenet hands could give me some more background on how to\ninterpret these figures, glitches, or the history of Reid's reporting\neffort. Take it to e-mail-- it doesn't belong in sci.space.", "Hey Nick! I got a bounce from postmaster@bnr.ca, it seems that they've never \nheard of a user 'npet'. You should sort these guys out.\n\n\nTony", "O.K. It would be a shame for Cards fans on the net\nto go through the 1993 championship season without a \nmailing list to talk on so I would be willing to look\nat starting one.\n\nExcept there's one little problem...\n\nI don't know the first thing about how to do it or \nwhat it requires in terms of resources or time. So\nif some kind soul could e-mail me the particulars of\ngetting starting and managing a mail list, I'd see\nif it would be feasible for me to start a Cards mailing \nlist.\n\nThanks in advance,\n\nDick Detweiler", "Some weeks ago, someone posted an article telling when and where\na hamfest and computerfest was going to be help in Dayton, OH.\nUnfortunately, I lost the article and I was wondering if someone\ncould repost it.\n\nI believe it was being held the 23,24,and 25 of this month at\nthe Dayton convention center but I'm not sure.\n\nAny help and more details would be greatly appreciated.", "Does anybody know if there is a mailing list or newsgroup for\nPower Systems and related areas?\n\nThanks,\n", "\nNo! Distribution keywords are case sensitive. What you want\nis\n\n\tDistribution: world\n\nor no Distribution line at all. \"WORLD\" in capital letters is wrong.", "\n@===@ @===@\n ### Mark Juric A.I. Programs ###\n ### mjuric@ai.uga.edu University of Georgia ###\n ### Athens, Georgia 30602 ###\n@===@ @===@\n\n\n", "And then cjkuo@symantec.com (Jimmy Kuo) quoth:\n\nWell, either way, the Reds have to play a man down for 3 days.\n", "\nI add my congratulations as well. To all those who survive the gauntlet,\ncheers.", "I've gotten very few posts on this group in the last couple days. (I\nrecently added it to my feed list.) Is it just me, or is this group\nnear death?\n--", "Hello there!\nA few days ago I got a mail concerning bitmap-stretching\nfrom SCOTT LEATHAM @ Microsoft Redmond WA, USA.\nI really would like to answer back to him, but I have \nlost his email-address.\nSo if Scott or anybody that knows his email-address\nreads this, please mail me his address so I can\nanswer his mail.\n\nPlease mail to : d91tm@efd.lth.se", "Hello,\n\nHas anyone used the Requirements Analsys methodology Hatley & Pirbhai ? I am\na British final year real-time degree student, and as a project I am covering\nthis methodology. I would be very grateful to anyone who could give me their\nviews on this method. Please mail me if you feel you can help, and I will send\nyou my questions.\n\nThanks in advance,", "Eric, send me your email address, I lost it! I've reconsidered!", "Just opened up the distribution.\n", "\n\n\n Yes, please create the group alt.raytrace soon!!\nI'm hooked on pov.\ngeez. like I don't have anything better to do....\nOH!! dave letterman is on...\n", "--- Received from EEI.EEIIHY 353-1-2800455 93-04-26 12.28\n -> VAX.XPERT..EXPO.LCS.MIT.EDU..INET\n -: - - - - - - - - - - > MAIL USER IN VAX AND INTERNET\nhelp\n\n", "bosox-request@world.std.com\nto mail to the list: bosox@world.std.com", "Just wanted to let all the people who e-mailed me about \na possible Cardinals mailing list that I wasn't able to\nget the OK to host the list here so someone else will\nhave to do it. :-(\n\nMany thanks to Bob Netherton for his helpful info.", "\nDidn't you hear? His address has changed. He can be reached at the \nfollowing address:\n\ndkoresh@branch.davidian.compound.waco.tx.us\n\nI think he was last seen posting to alt.messianic.\n\nJim", "Hi,\n I'd like to subscribe to Leadership Magazine but wonder if there is one on\ndisk instead of on paper. Having it on disk would save me retyping\nillustrations, etc into a word processor. It's just cut and paste.\n If there are other good Christian magazines like Leadership on disk media,\nI'd appreciate any info.", "\n\n\n\nYou also have a severe problem with news headers.\n\nFTP to cs.purdue.edu:pub/vanecek and pull proxima.tar.Z\nand proxima.ps.Z. Tres spif.\n\n-- ", "Does anyone know any good decipleship trainning program during min August \nto end of Sept. Or any missionary programs.\nI currently belong to the Missionary Alliance Church in Oregon.\nPlease reply by mail.\n\nthanks.", "\n\n\nCan I suggest the University of Western Australia in Perth.\nThe weathers great, the people are great and our Electronic Engineering department is great.\nI am a first year student here ... so I don't know much about what projects but I do know they have a good reputation in the fields of dsp and communications. Ever heard of QPSX? The people who own are ex-UWA ... so that gives an indication of what the department is like.\n\nFor more information\nemail: yianni@swanee.ee.uwa.edu.au\nwith the above request and he should be able to tell some more info\n\nor write\n\nDepartment of Electrical and Electronic Engineering\nUniversity of Western Australia\nStirling Highway\nCRAWLEY 6009\nWestern Australia\nAustralia\n\n\nYours\nMark\n\nmtearle@tartarus.uwa.edu.au", " \n \n \n \n The answer is in the FAQ for this group. nough said.\n \n ", "I know that this is not the correct place to post this, but I have \nexhausted all other logical options. I used to be on the INFO-UNIX \nnewsgroup mailer. The mailers mysteriously quite coming around the end of\nlast year. All e-mails requesting that I be placed back on the list have\nbeen ignored. I have been unable to locate the administrator of this list.\n\nIf anyone knows of the internet address that I can send a the request to\nget back on this list, can you please send it to me. If you don't know\nof this specific newsgroup mailer, I would appreciate the address of *any*\nUNIX-related newsgroup. Thanks.\n\n Cutoff,\n Steve\n slosser@ntsc-rd.navy.mil", "Thanks to everyone who sent replies regarding this case. A few of them were\nvery informative and helped very much. \n", "\nPlease don't respond anymore, I have enough beta testers now. Thank you.\n\n-- \n Dipl.-Inform. Rainer Klute I R B : immer richtig beraten\n Univ. Dortmund, IRB\n Postfach 500500 |)|/ Tel.: +49 231 755-4663\nD-W4600 Dortmund 50 |\\|\\ Fax : +49 231 755-2386", "Hi Gang,\n\nI'd like to subscribe to the White Sox mailing list, if one exists.\nCan someone please e-mail me the address?\n\nThanks alot,\n-John", "THE FOLLOWING POSTING WAS FORGED IN MY NAME! PLEASE IGNORE SUCH POSTINGS!\n\n[FORGED] Newsgroups:soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.\n[FORGED] soviet,soc.culture.greek\n[FORGED] From: dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian)\n[FORGED] News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 \n[FORGED] Organization: University of Tennessee Computing Center\n[FORGED] Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1993 21:36:00 GMT\n[FORGED] Lines: 293\n[FORGED]\n[FORGED] Dear friends,\n[FORGED]\n[FORGED] I am a graduate student in Education at the University of Tennessee. \n[FORGED]\n .\n .\n .\n[FORGED]\n[FORGED]\n[FORGED] __QUESTIONNAIRE__\n[FORGED] Teaching Music for deaf children.\n[FORGED]\n[FORGED] NAME ________________________________\n[FORGED] ADDRESS/ E-MAIL _____________________\n[FORGED] EMPLOYING INSTITUTION _______________\n[FORGED] YEARS OF EXPERIENCE_________ GRADE LEVEL(S)____\n[FORGED] EDUCATIONAL BACKGROUND:BACHELOR__ MASTERS__ DOCTORATE__\n[FORGED] PROFESSIONAL FIELD:SPECIAL EDUC.__ MUSIC EDUC.__ OTHER*__\n\nTHE ABOVE POSTING WAS FORGED IN MY NAME! PLEASE IGNORE SUCH POSTINGS!\n", "First you find a congenial member of the opposite sex ...\n--\nThomas Clarke\nInstitute for Simulation and Training, University of Central FL\n12424 Research Parkway, Suite 300, Orlando, FL 32826\n(407)658-5030, FAX: (407)658-5059, clarke@acme.ucf.edu", "Adam Benson\nMt. Pearl, NF\nadamb@garfield.cs.mun.ca\n\n\n", "In-Reply-To: <20APR199312262902@rigel.tamu.edu> lmp8913@rigel.tamu.edu (PRESTON, LISA M)", "The vote to create the proposed group, Sci.life-extension, was\naffirmative.\n\nYes votes: 237.\nNo votes: 28.\n\nWhat follows is a list of the people who voted, by vote (\"no\" or \"yes\").\n\nHere are the people who voted NO:\n\nbailey@utpapa.ph.utexas.edu (Ed Bailey)\nbarkdoll@lepomis.psych.upenn.edu (Edwin Barkdoll)\nmsb@sq.com (Mark Brader)\ncarr@acsu.buffalo.edu (Dave Carr)\ndesj@ccr-p.ida.org (David desJardins)\njbh@Anat.UMSMed.Edu (James B. Hutchins)\nrsk@gynko.circ.upenn.edu (Rich Kulawiec)\nstu@valinor.mythical.com (Stu Labovitz)\nlau@ai.sri.com (Stephen Lau)\nplebrun@minf8.vub.ac.be (Philippe Lebrun)\njmaynard@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jay Maynard)\nemcguire@intellection.com (Ed McGuire)\nrick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Richard H. Miller)\nsmarry@zooid.guild.org (Marc Moorcroft)\ndmosher@nyx.cs.du.edu (David Mosher)\nejo@kaja.gi.alaska.edu (Eric J. Olson)\nhmpetro@mosaic.uncc.edu (Herbert M Petro)\nsmith-una@YALE.EDU (Una Smith)\nmmt@RedBrick.COM (Maxime Taksar KC6ZPS)\nurlichs@smurf.sub.org (Matthias Urlichs)\nac999266@umbc.edu (a Francis Uy)\nwerner@SOE.Berkeley.Edu (John Werner)\nwick@netcom.com (Potter Wickware)\nggw@wolves.Durham.NC.US (Gregory G. Woodbury)\nD.W.Wright@bnr.co.uk (D. Wright)\nyarvin-norman@CS.YALE.EDU (Norman Yarvin)\nask@cblph.att.com\nspm2d@opal.cs.virginia.edu\n\nHere are the people who voted YES:\n\nFSSPR@ACAD3.ALASKA.EDU (Hardcore Alaskan)\nkalex@eecs.umich.edu (Ken Alexander)\nph600fht@sdcc14.UCSD.EDU (Alex Aumann)\nfranklin.balluff@Syntex.Com (Franklin Balluff)\nbarash@umbc.edu (Mr. Steven Barash)\nbuild@alan.b30.ingr.com (Alan Barksdale (build))\nlion@TheRat.Kludge.COM (John H. Barlow)\npbarto@UCENG.UC.EDU (Paul Barto)\nryan.bayne@canrem.com (Ryan Bayne)\nmignon@shannon.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Mignon Belongie)\nbeaudot@tirf.grenet.fr (william Beaudot)\nlavb@lise.unit.no (Olav Benum)\nross@bryson.demon.co.uk (Ross Beresford)\nben.best@canrem.com (Ben Best)\nlevi@happy-man.com (Levi Bitansky)\njsb30@dagda.Eng.Sun.COM (James Blomgren)\ngbloom@nyx.cs.du.edu (Gregory Bloom)\nmbrader@netcom.com (Mark Brader)\nebrandt@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (Eli Brandt)\ndoom@leland.stanford.edu (Joseph Brenner)\nrc@pos.apana.org.au (Robert Cardwell)\njeffjc@binkley.cs.mcgill.ca (Jeffrey CHANCE)\nsasha@cs.umb.edu (Alexander Chislenko)\nmclark@world.std.com (Maynard S Clark)\n100042.2703@CompuServe.COM (\"A.J. Clifford\")\ncoleman@twinsun.com (Mike Coleman)\nsteve@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu (Steve Coltrin)\ncollier@ivory.rtsg.mot.com (John T. Collier)\ncompton@plains.NoDak.edu (Curtis M. Compton) \nbobc@master.cna.tek.com (Bob Cook)\ncordell@shaman.nexagen.com (Bruce Cordell)\ncormierj@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Cormier Jean-Marc)\ndjcoyle@macc.wisc.edu (Douglas J. Coyle)\ndass0001@student.tc.umn.edu (\"John R Dassow-1\")\nbdd@onion.eng.hou.compaq.com (Bruce Davis)\ndemonn@emunix.emich.edu (Kenneth Jubal DeMonn)\ndesilets@sj.ate.slb.com (Mark Desilets)\nmarkd@sco.COM (Mark Diekhans)\nkari@teracons.teracons.com (Kari Dubbelman)\nlhdsy1!cyberia.hou281.chevron.com!hwdub@uunet.UU.NET (Dub Dublin)\nwilldye@helios.unl.edu (Will Dye)\n155yegan%jove.dnet.measurex.com@juno.measurex.com (TERRY EGAN)\neder@hsvaic.boeing.com (Dani Eder)\nglenne@magenta.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Glenn Ellingson)\nfarrar@adaclabs.com (Richard Farrar)\nghsvax!hal@uunet.UU.NET (Hal Finney)\nlxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel)\nafoxx@foxxjac.b17a.ingr.com (Foxx)\ni000702@disc.dla.mil (sam frajerman,sppb,x3026,)\nmpf@medg.lcs.mit.edu (Michael P. Frank)\nMartin.Franklin@Corp.Sun.COM (Martin Franklin)\ntiff@CS.UCLA.EDU (Tiffany Frazier)\nAiling_Zhu_Freeman@U.ERGO.CS.CMU.EDU (Ailing Freeman)\nTimothy_Freeman@U.ERGO.CS.CMU.EDU (Tim Freeman)\ngt0657c@prism.gatech.edu (geoff george)\nmtvdjg@rivm.nl (Daniel Gijsbers)\nexusag@exu.ericsson.se (Serena Gilbert)\nrlglende@netcom.com (Robert Lewis Glendenning)\ngoetz@cs.Buffalo.EDU (Phil Goetz)\ngoolsby@dg-rtp.dg.com (Chris Goolsby)\ndgordon@crow.omni.co.jp (David Gordon)\nbgrahame@eris.demon.co.uk (Robert D Grahame)\nsascsg@unx.sas.com (Cynthia Grant)\ngreen@srilanka.island.COM (Robert Greenstein)\njohng@oce.orst.edu (John A. Gregor)\nroger@netcom.com (roger gregory)\nevans-ron@CS.YALE.EDU (Ron Hale-Evans)\nbrent@vpnet.chi.il.us (Brent Hansen)\nRon.G.Hay@med.umich.edu (Ron G. Hay)\nakh@empress.gvg.tek.com (Anna K. Haynes)\nclaris!qm!Bob_Hearn@ames.arc.nasa.gov (Robert Hearn)\nfheyligh@vnet3.vub.ac.be (Francis Heylighen)\nhin9@midway.uchicago.edu (P. Hindman)\nfishe@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Carwil James)\njanzen@mprgate.mpr.ca (Martin Janzen)\nkarp@skcla.monsanto.com (Jeffery M Karp)\nrk2@elsegundoca.ncr.com (Richard Kelly)\nmerklin@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Ed Kemo)\nkessner@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (KESSNER ERIC M)\nmapam@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr R A Khwaja)\nkoski@sunset.cs.utah.edu (Keith Koski)\nkathi@bridge.com (Kathi Kramer)\nbenkrug@jupiter.fnbc.com (Ben Krug)\nfarif@eskimo.com (David Kunz)\nedsr!edsdrd!sel@uunet.UU.NET (Steve Langs)\npa_hcl@MECENG.COE.NORTHEASTERN.EDU (Henry Leong)\nS.Linton@pmms.cam.ac.uk (Steve Linton)\nalopez@cs.ep.utexas.EDU (Alejandro Lopez 6330)\nkfl@access.digex.com (\"Keith F. Lynch\")\nKAMCHAR@msu.edu (Charles MacDonald)\nrob@vis.toronto.edu (Robert C. Majka)\nphil@starconn.com (Phil Marks)\ncam@jackatak.raider.net (Cameron Marshall)\nmmay@mcd.intel.com (Mike May ~)\ndrac@uumeme.chi.il.us (Bruce Maynard)\ni001269@discg2.disc.dla.mil (john mccarrick)\nxyzzy@imagen.com (David McIntyre)\ncuhes@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Malcolm McMahon)\nmcpherso@macvax.UCSD.EDU (John Mcpherson)\nmerkle@parc.xerox.com (Ralph Merkle)\neric@Synopsys.COM (Eric Messick)\npmetzger@shearson.com (Perry E. Metzger)\ngmichael@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Gary R. Michael)\ndat91mas@ludat.lth.se (Asker Mikael)\nMILLERL@WILMA.WHARTON.UPENN.EDU (\"Loren J. Miller\")\nminsky@media.mit.edu (Marvin Minsky)\npmorris@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Paul Morris)\nMark_Muhlestein@Novell.COM (Mark Muhlestein)\ndavid@staff.udc.upenn.edu (R. David Murray)\ngananney@mosaic.uncc.edu (Glenn A Nanney)\nanthony@meaddata.com (Anthony Napier)\ndniman@panther.win.net (Donald E. Niman)\nnistuk@unixg.ubc.ca (Richard Nistuk)\nJonathan@RMIT.EDU.AU (Jonathan O'Donnell)\nmartino@gomez.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Martin R. Olah)\ncpatil@leland.stanford.edu (Christopher Kashina Patil)\ncrp5754@erfsys01.boeing.com (Chris Payne)\nsharon@acri.fr (Sharon Peleg)\nphp@rhi.hi.is (Petur Henry Petersen)\nchrisp@efi.com (Chris Phoenix)\npierce@CS.UCLA.EDU (Brad Pierce)\njulius@math.utah.edu (\"Julius Pierce\")\ndplatt@cellar.org (Doug Platt)\nMitchell.Porter@lambada.oit.unc.edu (Mitchell Porter)\ncpresson@jido.b30.ingr.com (Craig Presson)\nprice@price.demon.co.uk (Michael Clive Price)\nU39554@UICVM.BITNET (Edward S. Proctor)\nstevep@deckard.Works.ti.com (Steve Pruitt)\nMJQUINN@PUCC.BITNET (Michael Quinn)\nrauss@nvl.army.mil (Patrick Rauss)\nremke@cs.tu-berlin.de (\"Jan K. Remke\")\nag167@yfn.ysu.edu (Barry H. Rodin)\nksackett@cs.uah.edu (Karl R. Sackett)\nrcs@cs.arizona.edu (Richard Schroeppel)\nfschulz@pyramid.com (Frank Schulz)\nkws@Thunder-Island.kalamazoo.MI.US (Karel W. Sebek)\nbseewald@gozer.idbsu.edu (Brad Seewald)\nshapard@manta.nosc.mil (Thomas D. Shapard)\nhabs@Panix.Com (Harry Shapiro)\nmuir@idiom.berkeley.ca.us (David Muir Sharnoff)\ndasher@well.sf.ca.us (D Anton Sherwood)\nzero@netcom.com (Richard Shiflett)\nAP201160@BROWNVM.BITNET (Elaine Shiner)\nrobsho@robsho.Auto-trol.COM (Robert Shock)\nrshvern@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Rob Shvern)\nwesiegel@cie-2.uoregon.edu (William Siegel)\nggyygg@mixcom.mixcom.com (Kenton Sinner)\nbsmart@bsmart.tti.com (Bob Smart)\ntonys@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU (Anthony David Smith)\nsgccsns@citecuc.citec.oz.au (Shayne Noel Smith)\ndsnider@beta.tricity.wsu.edu (Daniel L Snider)\nsnyderg@spot.Colorado.EDU (SNYDER GARY EDWIN JR)\nblupe@ruth.fullfeed.com (Brian Arthur Stewart)\nlhdsy1!usmi02.midland.chevron.com!tsfsi@uunet.UU.NET (Sigrid\nStewart)\nnat@netcom.com (Nathaniel Stitt)\ntps@biosym.com (Tom Stockfisch)\nstodolsk@andromeda.rutgers.edu (David Stodolsky)\ngadget@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Steve Strong)\ncarey@CS.UCLA.EDU (Carey Sublette)\njsuttor@netcom.com (Jeff Suttor)\nswain@cernapo.cern.ch (John Swain)\nszabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo)\nptheriau@netcom.com (P. Chris Theriault)\nak051@yfn.ysu.edu (Chris Thompson)\ngunnar.thoresen@bio.uio.no (Gunnar Thoresen)\ndreamer@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Andrew Trapp)\njerry@cse.lbl.gov (Jerry Tunis)\nmusic@parcom.ernet.in (Rajeev Upadhye)\ntreon@u.washington.edu (Treon Verdery)\nevore@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Eric J Vore)\nU13054@UICVM.BITNET (Howard Wachtel)\nsusan@wpi.WPI.EDU (Susan C Wade)\n70023.3041@CompuServe.COM (Paul Wakfer)\newalker@it.berklee.edu (\"Elaine Walker\")\njew@rt.sunquest.com (James Ward)\njeremy@ai.mit.edu (Jeremy M. Wertheimer)\nbw@ws029.torreypinesca.NCR.COM (Bruce White 3807)\nweeds@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Mark Wiedman)\nwiesel-elisha@CS.YALE.EDU (Elisha Wiesel)\nWILLINGP@gar.union.edu (WILLING, PAUL)\nsmw@alcor.concordia.ca (Steven Winikoff)\nwright@hicomb.hi.com (David Wright)\nebusew@anah.ericsson.com (Stephen Wright 66667)\nliquidx@cnexus.cts.com (Liquid-X)\nxakellis@uivlsisl.csl.uiuc.edu (Michael G. Xakellis)\ncs012113@cs.brown.edu (Ion Yannopoulos)\nyazz@lccsd.sd.locus.com (Bob Yazz)\nlnz@lucid.com (Leonard N. Zubkoff)\n62RSE@npd1.ufpe.br\nadwyer@mason1.gmu.edu\nART@EMBL-Hamburg.DE\natfurman@cup.portal.com\nbillw@attmail.att.com\ncarl@red-dragon.umbc.edu\ncarlf@ai.mit.edu\ncccbbs!chris.thompson@UCENG.UC.EDU\nCCGARCIA@MIZZOU1.BITNET\nclayb@cellar.org\ndack@permanet.org\ndaedalus@netcom.com\ndanielg@autodesk.com\nDave-M@cup.portal.com\nF_GRIFFITH@CCSVAX.SFASU.EDU\ngarcia@husc.harvard.edu\ngav@houxa.att.com\nhammar@cs.unm.edu\nherbison@lassie.ucx.lkg.dec.com\nhhuang@Athena.MIT.EDU\nhkhenson@cup.portal.com\nirving@happy-man.com\njeckel@amugw.aichi-med-u.ac.jp\njgs@merit.edu\njmeritt@mental.mitre.org\nJonas_Marten_Fjallstam@cup.portal.com\nkqb@whscad1.att.com\nLPOMEROY@velara.sim.es.com\nlubkin@apollo.hp.com\nkunert@wustlb.wustl.edu\nLINYARD_M@XENOS.a1.logica.co.uk\nM.Michelle.Wrightwatson@att.com\nmoselecw@elec.canterbury.ac.nz\nnaoursla@eos.ncsu.edu\nng4@husc.harvard.edu\npase70!dchapman@uwm.edu\npocock@math.utah.edu\nRUDI@HSD.UVic.CA\nSCOTTJOR@delphi.com\nstanton@ide.com\nsteveha@microsoft.com\nstu1016@DISCOVER.WRIGHT.EDU\nSYang.ES_AE@xerox.com\ntim.hruby@his.com\nTodd.Kaufmann@FUSSEN.MT.CS.CMU.EDU\ntom@genie.slhs.udel.edu\nUC482529@MIZZOU1.BITNET\nWMILLER@clust1.clemson.edu\nyost@mv.us.adobe.com\n\n(The group still passes if you don't count the people for\nwhom I just have email address.)", " yxy4145@usl.edu Thanks a lot.\n\n", "LOOK INTO THE FUTURE\n\nDiscover what lies ahead in Love, Health and Finance\n\nSpeak LIVE with a Psychic of your choice\n\n900-446-6995 Extension 107\n\nYOU MUST BE 18 OR OVER TO CALL.", "It was brought to my attention that there was an oversight in the SIGKids\nResearch Showcase Call for Participation and Entry Form.\n\nPlease note that the SIGKids Research Showcase is part of \nSIGGRAPH '93, August 1-6, 1993 Anaheim, California.\n\nThank you,\n\nDiane Schwartz\nSIGKids Committee Member\nInstitute for the Learning Sciences\n1890 Maple Avenue, Suite 150\nEvanston, Illinois 60201", "\n\nAm I glad you write that. I got flamed all along because I begged NOT to\ncrosspost some nonsense articles.\n\nThe problem with crossposting is on the first poster. I am aware that this\nposting is a crossposting too, but what else should one do. You never know\nwhere the interested people stay in.\n\nTo split up newsgroups brings even more crossposting.\n\n-- \n\nJan Holler, Bern, Switzerland Good is not good enough, make it better!\nholli!holler@augs1.adsp.sub.org ((Second chance: holler@iamexwi.unibe.ch))", "Inguiry by address:er1@eridan.chuvashia.su\n", "\nI'd like this too... maybe you should post an answer key after a while?\n\nNanci", "Also note (from and ):\n\n% whois -h rs.internic.net tis-dom\nTrusted Information Systems, Inc. (TIS-DOM)\n 3060 Washington Road, Route 97\n Glenwood, MD 21738\n\n Domain Name: TIS.COM\n\n Administrative Contact:\n Walker, Stephen T. (STW3) walker@TIS.COM\n (301) 854-6889\n Technical Contact, Zone Contact:\n Dalva, David I. (DID1) dave@TIS.COM\n (301) 854-6889\n\n Record last updated on 02-Jul-92.\n\n Domain servers in listed order:\n\n TIS.COM 192.33.112.100\n LA.TIS.COM 192.5.49.8\n\n\tAnd \"dockmaster\" is an infamous address ...\n", "I am posting this message for a friend of mine who does not have a computer\naccount, if you have any questions please call Dan at (814)238-1804.", "I think you tried to send me a message re: the animation query\nI posted to comp.windows.x. I've appended what I received below.\nIf you can remember what you typed, I'd appreciate another attempt!\n\nDerek\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------\n-----------------------------------------------------------\n\n----- Begin Included Message -----\n\nFrom aol.com!Postmaster Thu Apr 22 04:47:31 1993\nReceived: by cast0.ast.cam.ac.uk (UK-Smail 3.1.25.1/2)\n id ; Thu, 22 Apr 93 04:47 BST\nReceived: from sco1.prod.aol.net by hp81.prod.aol.net with SMTP\n\t(1.37.109.4/16.2) id AA19251; Wed, 21 Apr 93 23:49:16 -0400\nFrom: Postmaster@aol.com\nX-Mailer: America Online Mailer\nTo: dcr@mail.ast.cam.ac.uk\nSubject: Returned Mail Unknown Member \nDate: Wed, 21 Apr 93 23:46:36 EDT\nMessage-Id: <9304212346.tn60988@aol.com>\nStatus: R\n\n\n The mail you sent could not be delivered; it was addressed to an unknown user.The text you sent follows...\n\nHi, I'm new to this group so please bear with me!\n\nTwo years ago I wrote a Sunview application for fast animation\nof raster files. With Sunview becoming rapidly obselete, I've\nfinally decided to rewrite everything from scratch in XView.\nI put together a quick test, and I've found that XPutImage()\nis considerably slower (factor of 2 on average?) than the\nSunview command pw_rop() which moves image data from memory\npixrects to a canvas. This was on a Sparc IPX. It seems that:\n(1) the X protocol communication is slowing things down; or\n(2) XPutImage is inefficient...or both! My question is, what\nis the fastest way in X11R5 to dump 8 plane image data to\na window? Can I take advantage of the fact that the client is\nrunning on the same machine as the server? Or am I stuck with\nXPutImage() (in which case I might as well give up now...)?\n\nAll help appreciated...thanks!\n\nDerek\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------\n-----------------------------------------------------------\n\n\n\n----------------------- Headers ------------------------\nReceived: from uupsi7 by aolsys.aol.com id aa23625; Wed, 21 Apr 93 23:39:41 EDT\nReceived: from EXPO.LCS.MIT.EDU by uu7.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via SMTP;\n id AA16562 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 93 19:44:00 -0400\nReceived: by expo.lcs.mit.edu; Wed, 21 Apr 93 13:58:06 -0400\nReceived: from ENTERPOOP.MIT.EDU by expo.lcs.mit.edu; Wed, 21 Apr 93 13:58:05 -0400\nReceived: by enterpoop.MIT.EDU (5.57/4.7) id AA15705; Wed, 21 Apr 93 13:57:34 -0400\nReceived: from USENET by enterpoop with netnewsfor xpert@expo.lcs.mit.edu (xpert@expo.lcs.mit.edu);contact usenet@enterpoop if you have questions.\nTo: xpert@expo.lcs.mit.edu\nDate: Wed, 21 Apr 1993 15:46:20 GMT\nFrom: dcr@mail.ast.cam.ac.uk (Derek C. Richardson)\nMessage-Id: <1993Apr21.154620.16330@infodev.cam.ac.uk>\nOrganization: Institute of Astronomy, Cambridge\nReply-To: dcr@mail.ast.cam.ac.uk\nSubject: Animation with XPutImage()?\n", "Archive-Name: rec-autos/part6\n\n[New article as of 4 February 1993 -- rpw]\n\n\nMany people want to set up mailing lists for their favorite\nautomotive topics; rather fewer know how to do it. This article\nwill provide the essential information for doing so on standard\nUnix systems. A shell script and examples of alias file setups\nare included which presently run on a Sparc 2 here at balltown.cma.com\nfor a number of mailing lists. Note that if you do set up an automotive\nmailing list, please let me know of the -request address so that I can\nlist it in the montly rec.autos posting. Also inform the keeper of the\nUsenet list-of-lists (check news.answers for this monthly posting.)\n\nFirst of all, to get anywhere, you need to either 1) be a sysadmin,\nor 2) have some measure of assistance from your sysadmin. It is also\nimportant that you have reasonably good network connectivity; if it seems\nlike you get everything several days after anyone else, or that you\nhave trouble getting email through, then your network connectivity is\nprobably not good enough.\n\nListserv:\n\nThere is a handy automated mailing list package named listserv, which\nis available from several ftp servers on the network. Details of\nthe installation and operation of listserv are beyond the scope of this\narticle, but anyone who is considering running a large mailing list should\nprobably look at listserv carefully.\n\nThe Alias file:\n\nOn a typical unix system; there is a file named /usr/lib/aliases on\nwhichever file server is your mail host; it contains lines such as:\n\nfoo: bar, baz, bletch\n\n\nwhich means that any email sent the name `foo' on that host is\nredistributed to users bar, baz, and bletch. thus, the simplest\npossible email list is \n\nmy-favorite-car: member1, member2, member3, my-address\nmy-favorite-car-request: my-address\n\nthis has a couple of problems; the most noticeable one being that\nyou have to be superuser to edit the alias file. however, you can\ndo the following, with the connivance of your sysadmin:\n\nmy-favorite-car: :include:/home/mydir/misc/autos/my-favorite-car-list\nmy-favorite-car-request: my-address\n\nWhere the file specified is a list of comma and newline separated\naddresses. This file can be in the list admin's home directory,\nowned by the list admin.\n\nBounced Mail:\n\nthis still has a problem; bounced mail usually gets distributed to all the\nmembers of the list, which is generally considered somewhat irritating.\nTherefore, the way that the driving school mailing list is set up\nis instructive (Thanks to harpal chohan of the bmw list for this setup,\nby the way. I'm not sure where he got it from.)\n\n\nschool-request: welty\nschool-rebroadcast: :include:/home/newwelty/misc/autos/school/list\nschool: \"|/usr/local/adm/bin/explscript school\"\nowner-school: school-request\nowner-school-out: school-request\n\n\nhere's what is going on here:\n\nthe owner- and -request addresses are intended as traps for bounced mail\ncoming from the network. the -request address also serves as the point\nof contact for administrative duties.\n\nschool is what people send mail to; instead of pointing at addresses,\nit points at a shell script which rewrites headers before resending\nthe email. school-broadcast (of which nobody except me knows the name;\nthe name has been changed here to protect my own sanity) points at the\nactual list members.\n\nthe shell script i use is as follows:\n\n-----------------\n#!/bin/sh\ncd /tmp\nsed -e '/^Reply-To:/d' -e '/^Sender:/d' -e '/^From /d' | \\\n (echo Reply-To: ${1}@balltown.cma.com; \\\n echo Errors-To: ${1}-request@balltown.cma.com; \\\n echo Sender: ${1}-request@balltown.cma.com; \\\n cat -) | \\\n /usr/lib/sendmail -om -f ${1}-request@balltown.cma.com \\\n -F \"The ${1} Mailing List\" ${1}-rebroadcast\nexit 0\n-------------------\n\nnote that this script does not know the name of the list; the name\nis passed in from outside, so that the script may be used for multiple\nlists (i run several out of this site.)\nthe script excises Reply-To:, Sender:, and From lines from the incoming\nmessage, substitutes for Sender: and Reply-To:, and adds Errors-to:\n99.9% of all email bounce messages end up being sent to the -request\nor owner- addresses if this header rewrite is done.\n\nFor digested lists, there is some digestification software around.\nHopefully I'll be able to provide more information in a future version\nof this posting.\n\nrichard welty (welty@balltown.cma.com)", "im interseted in buing some of those....I am a student at R.I.T. please reply saying how to contact you.....Ed\n", "If there is anyone attending the ISSA conference in Arlington, VA next\nweek, I would appreciate them getting in touch with me.", "Inguiry by address:er1@eridan.chuvashia.su\n", "I am not sure that I am supposed to post this mail here. However\nduring the last year, while I was involved in developing graphical user\ninterface (GUI) applications, I have enjoyed being personally part of this\nnews group wherin I got some interesting information which helped me in my\nwork. I am posting my resuming hoping that people working in my area would\nmake time to look at it.\n________________________________________________________________________________\n_\n\t\t\t\t\t\t304A WestGate Hall,\n\t\t\t\t\t\tISU, Ames, IA 50011.\n\t\t\t\t\t\t(515) 294 1525\n\t\t\t\t\t\tApril 29, 1992.\n\nDear Prospective Employer:\n\nI am seeking employment as a software engineer with interests in software\ndesign and development, in which I can utilize my experience in hardware, \nC & C++ programming, graphical user interface (GUI), operating systems and\ncomputer networking.\n\nI received my Bachelors of Engineering (BE) degree in Electronics\nEngineering in 1990 and a M.S. degree in Electrical Engineering in Dec 1992 \nfrom Iowa State University. Currently I am enrolled in a M.S. in Computer\nEngineering at Iowa State University.\n\nDuring my Masters program, as a research assistant since Jan 1991, I have\npublished three papers including one in the IEEE Transactions on Magnetics.\nThese papers are a reflection of the quality of my research and my ability\nto learn new concepts quickly.\n\nI have been involved in many projects involving software developments and\nhave extensive experience programming in C, C++, Fortran and Assembly Level. \nI am also familiar with operating systems like Unix, Ultrix and MS-DOS.\nI am familiar with Motif/X programming and currently, as a research assistant,\nam involved in graphical user interface (GUI) design using the multiplatform \nGUI toolkit XVT++. My experiences also include areas such as operating systems\nand computer networks, through course work and projects. I was involved in the\nstudy of the design and development of the internals of the XINU operating\nsystem. I have also been involved in many TCP/IP programming projects in\ncomputer networking.\n\nWhile in college I learnt the importance of clear and concise communication.\nI have also learned a lot about time management. In my M.S. program I\nhave maintained a 3.70 grade average, worked 20 hours per week and\nhave enjoyed being involved in many other extra curricular activities.\n\nMy software experiences along with my hardware background (Electronics\nEngineering) would be very helpful in my career goals as a software engineer.\nI request that my qualifications may kindly be reviewed. I would like to\nhave an interview to discuss your employment needs and my career goals. \nI am eager to hear from you soon.\n\n\nSincerely\n\nS.N. Rajesh (rajsnr@iastate.edu)\n\n...........................................................................\n\t\t\t\tRESUME\n...........................................................................\n\n\t\t\t S. N. RAJESH\n\t\t __________________\n\n Work\t\t Residence\n305 Coover ISU,\t\t\t\t\t304A WestGate hall, ISU\nAmes, IA 50011 \t\t\t\tAmes, IA 50011\n \t\t\t\t\t(515) 294-1525\n\n \t E-mail: rajsnr@iastate.edu\n\nOBJECTIVE\tTo obtain a challenging position as a Software Engineer \n\t\tinvolving software design and development, in which I can\n\t\tutilize my experience in hardware, C & C++ programming, \n\t\tgraphical user interface (GUI), operating systems and \n\t\tcomputer networking.\n\nEDUCATION\tCurrently enrolled in a M.S. in Computer Engineering, Iowa state\n\t\tUniversity, Ames, Iowa 50011.\t\n\n\t\tM.S. in Electrical Engineering, Iowa State University, Ames, \n\t\tIowa 50011 (Dec 1992) \tGPA\tMajor: 3.8/4.0\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tOverall: 3.7/4.0.\t\n\t\tThesis: Probability of Detection (POD) Models for Eddy Current\n\t\tNondestructive Evaluation (NDE) Methods. \n\t\t(Project Funded by Federal Aviation Administration (FAA))\n\n\t\tB.E. in Electronics Engineering, Bangalore University,\n \t\tBangalore, India (Jan 1990).\n\nPUBLICATIONS\tS. N. Rajesh, L. Udpa and S. S. Udpa, \"Numerical Model Based\n\t\tApproach for Estimating Probability of Detection in NDE \n\t\tapplications\", IEEE Transactions on Magnetics, Vol. 29,\n\t\tNo. 2, March 1993. \n\n\t\tS. N. Rajesh, L. Udpa and S. S. Udpa, \"Estimation of \n Eddy Current Probability of Detection using 3D Finite Element\n\t\tModel\", presented at the 19th Annual review of Progress in\n\t\tQuantitative Nondestructive Evaluation Conferance, San Diego,\n\t\tCalifornia (Jul 1992)\n\n\t\tS. N. Rajesh, L. Udpa, S. S. Udpa and N. Nakagawa, \"Probability\n of Detection Models for Eddy Current NDE Methods\", Presented at\n the 18th Annual Review of Progress in Quantitative\n Nondestructive Evaluation Conferance, Brunswick, ME (Jul 1991)\n\nRELEVANT * Implemention of Operating Systems * Electronic Devices and Circuits\nCOURSE * Computer Network Architecture * Pulse and Digital Circuits\nWORK * Advanced Computer Communications * Artificial Neural Networks\n * Introduction to Supercomputing * Pattern Recognition\n * Microprocessors and Computer * Digital Image Processing\n\t Organization * Digital Signal Processing\n * Computer Technology and * Integrated Circuits and Design\n\t Programming\n\nPROJECTS\t* Implementation of the fork system call on the Xinu operating\n\t\t system. Also involved in the implementation of a CPU\n\t\t scheduling algorithm taking into consideration the aging\n\t\t of processes. This project involved the study of the design\n\t\t and development of the internals of the Xinu operating system.\n\t\t* Design and development of an interrupt driven keyboard driver.\n\t\t This project involved a thorough understanding of device \n\t\t drivers.\n\t\t* Design and development of a Unix like tree structured \n\t\t directory which allows the creation of subdirectories and\n\t\t organization of files accordingly. This project included the\n\t\t implementation of routines such as mkdir, rmdir, cd, ls and\n\t\t rm to support the directory structure.\n\t\t* Analysis of methods of congestion control in computer\n networks.\n * Implementation of the Bellman-Ford routing algorithm for a\n distributed network. The communication between network nodes\n was based on UDP. This project involved programming in C++.\n\t\t* Simulation of the various digital logic functional units \n\t\t starting from the basic gates to registers, counters, adders,\n\t\t multipliers, arithmetic logic unit (ALU) and so on. The\n\t\t project involved extensive C programming in an Unix\n\t\t environment.\n\nWORK\t\tResearch Assistant, Center for NDE, Iowa State University, Ames,\nEXPERIENCE\tIA 50011 (Aug 1992-Present)\n * Work involves development of applications using graphical\n user interface (GUI) toolkits. Familiar with programming in\n a Motif/X environment. More recent work involves development\n of multiplatform GUI applications, in C++, using the portable\n\t\t GUI toolkit XVT++.\n (This project is supported by NIST (National Institute of\n Standards and Technology)).\n\n\t\tResearch Assistant, Center for NDE, Iowa State University, Ames,\n\t\tIA 50011 (Jan 1991-Aug 1992)\n\t\t* Work involved developing software for modeling electromagnetic\n\t\t NDE techniques such as the eddy current method. It also\n\t\t involved optimization of the code on the parallel computer\n\t\t Cray YMP.\n\t\t (This project was supported by FAA and involved working in\n\t\t close contact with the aircraft industry (Boeing)).\n\n\t\tTrainee Engineer, Indian Telephone Industries, Bangalore India.\n\t\t* Work involved design and development of a microprocessor\n\t\t (8085) based programmable telephone dialler used in cordless \n\t\t telephones. Involved programming of a 8085 microprocessor \n\t\t to control the pulsing actions of the relays in a telephone \n\t\t circuit (Jan-Nov 1989).\n\nCOMPUTER\tLanguages: C, C++, Fortran, Assembly Level.\nSKILLS\t\tSoftware: Motif/X, XVT, Computer Graphics (Hoops), TCP/IP \n\t\t\t programming, Image Processing Utilities, SDRC-Ideas, \t\t \t\t Autocad.\n\t\tOperating Systems: Unix, Stellix, Ultrix, MS-DOS.\n\t\tSystems: DEC Series, HP and Sun Workstations, Macintosh, \n\t\t\t Stellar.\n\t\tParallel Systems: Cray YMP, IBM 3090J, MasPar, N-Cube.\n\nHONOURS AND \t* Iowa State University Graduate College Scholarship \nACTIVITIES \t (Jan 1991-Present)\n\t\t* Ranked 42 out of over 20,000 students in Bachelors of\n\t\t Engineering Entrance Examination ensuring full\n\t\t scholarship, from the state, to pursue my Bachelors's degree.\n\t\t* Current member of IEEE", "Sorry, forgot to add its a Jap. import\nAndy\n", "INTENSIVE JAPANESE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURGH THIS SUMMER\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\n\nThe University of Pittsburgh is offering two intensive Japanese language\ncourses this summer. Both courses, Intensive Elementary Japanese and \nIntensive Intermediate Japanese, are ten week, ten credit courses \neach equivalent to one full year of Japanese language study. They begin \nJune 7 and end August 13. The courses meet five days per week, five hours \nper day. There is a flat rate tuition charge of $1600 per course. \nFellowships available for science and engineering students. Contact \nSteven Brener, Program Manager of the Japanese Science and Technology\nManagement Program, at the University of Pittsburgh at the number or\naddress below. \nALL INTERESTED INDIVIDUALS ARE ENCOURAGED TO APPLY, THIS IS NOT LIMITED TO \nUNIVERSITY STUDENTS.\n\n\n\n \n\n#######################################################################\n################# New Program Announcement ########################\n#######################################################################\n\n\n JAPANESE SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY MANAGEMENT PROGRAM\n\nThe Japanese Science and Technology Management Program (JSTMP) is a new\nprogram jointly developed by the University of Pittsbugh and Carnegie Mellon \nUniversity. Students and professionals in the engineering and scientific \ncommunitites are encouraged to apply for classes commencing in June 1993 and \nJanuary 1994.\n\n\nPROGRAM OBJECTIVES\nThe program intends to promote technology transfer between Japan and the \nUnited States. It is also designed to let scientists, engineers, and managers\nexperience how the Japanese proceed with technological development. This is \nfacilitated by extended internships in Japanese research facilities and\nlaboratories that provide participants with the opportunity to develop\nlong-term professional relationships with their Japanese counterparts.\n\n\nPROGRAM DESIGN\nTo fulfill the objectives of the program, participants will be required to \ndevelop advanced language capability and a deep understanding of Japan and\nits culture. Correspondingly, JSTMP consists of three major components:\n\n1. TRAINING IN THE JAPANESE LANGUAGE\nSeveral Japanese language courses will be offered, including intensive courses\ndesigned to expedite language preparation for scientists and engineers in a\nrelatively short time.\n\n2. EDUCATION IN JAPANESE BUSINESS AND SOCIAL CULTURE\nA particular enphasis is placed on attaining a deep understanding of the\ncultural and educational basis of Japanese management approaches in \nmanufacturing and information technology. Courses will be available in a \nvariety of departments throughout both universities including Anthropology,\nSociology, History, and Political Science. Moreover, seminars and colloquiums\nwill be conducted. Further, a field trip to Japanese manufacturing or \nresearch facilities in the United States will be scheduled.\n\n\n3. AN INTERNSHIP OR A STUDY MISSION IN JAPAN\nUpon completion of their language and cultural training at PITT and CMU, \nparticipants will have the opportunity to go to Japan and observe,\nand participate in the management of technology. Internships in Japan\nwill generally run for one year; however, shorter ones are possible.\n\n\nFELLOWSHIPS COVERING TUITION FOR LANGUAGE AND CULTURE COURSES, AS WELL AS\nSTIPENDS FOR LIVING EXPENSES ARE AVAILABLE.\n\n FOR MORE INFORMATION AND APPLICATION MATERIALS CONTACT\n\nSTEVEN BRENER\t\t\t\tSUSIE BROWN\nJSTMP\t\t\t\t\tCarnegie Mellon University, GSIA\nUniversity of Pittsburgh\t\tPittsburgh, PA 15213-3890\n4E25 Forbes Quadrangle\t\t\tTelephone: (412) 268-7806\nPittsburgh, PA 15260\t\t\tFAX:\t (412) 268-8163\nTelephone: (412) 648-7414\t\t\nFAX: (412) 648-2199\t\t\n\n############################################################################\n############################################################################ \n\n\nInterested individuals, companies and institutions should respond by phone or\nmail. Please do not inquire via e-mail.\nPlease note that this is directed at grads and professionals, however, advanced\nundergrads will be considered. Further, funding is resticted to US citizens\nand permanent residents of the US.", "\n\tPlease do! And if you don't want to post it here, email to me\n:-) I don't know how this discussion is appreciated here. I hate\n'invading' newsgroups with themes of limited interest :-)", "please subscribe me.", "In <1r1d2r$baf@umcc.umcc.umich.edu> dlc@umcc.umcc.umich.edu (David\n", "Hi,\n\n\nI just sent a mail to Turgut Kalfaoglu (sp?), the maintainer of the list,\nand asked him what's going on. If the list is (for whatever reason) really\ndead, we might have to put up a list ourselves. But for now, I want to wait\nfor his answer.\n\nFrank", "The latest issue of The Andrew View, newsletter of the Andrew Consortium\nis available. The simplest way to get it is via ftp from\nemsworth.andrew.cmu.edu (128.2.45.40) in directory ./newsletters; \nsubdirectories ASCII and PostScript contain the newsletter in those\nformats. \n\nIf you have requested it in the past, you will receive an email copy. \nYou may request to be placed on the mailing list by sending your request\nto info-andrew-request@andrew.cmu.edu.", "I'm looking for the following article:\n\n\t``The War Within: an Anatomy of Lust''\n\tLeadership 3 (1985), pp 30-48\n\nI've looked in the libraries of 3 UK Bible Colleges, but none of them subscribe\nto the Magazine (its a US publication, btw). If anyone has access to this\narticle and would be willing to post me a photocopy (I presume that copyright\nrestrictions will allow this?), please e-mail me. Thanks,", "Please subscribe me to this mailing list", "SUBSCRIBE XPERT skji@eve.kaist.ac.kr\n", "\nIs any education a prerequisite for employment at IHR ?\nIs it true that IHR really stands for Institution of Hysterical Reviews?\nCurious minds would like to know...\n\nHap\n", "--\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n mike_johnson@mentorg.com", "\n\tNice sig. Like the change. \n\tBTW: Could you post the names of the people who are going to be on the\nletter? I (and I'm sure others) would like to know if we are included. If I'm\nnot I want to be! Roger is a fool!\n\n\t", "please subscrive me.", "Announcing\nthe Trincoll Journal\n\n Trinity College's\nPaperless Publication\n\nThe Trincoll Journal is an interactive magizine written in Hypercard. \nThis publication offers a wide variety of information concerning the\n\"Trinity Campus\", and the Greater Hartford Area. In addition the Journal\nalso provides a unique forum for opinion and expression.\n\nWe would like to invite the Internet community to participate in the\ncreation of this publication by submitting Articles, Art Work, Events\n(for the Greater Hartford Area only), and anything else that you think is\ninteresting, to the Journal each week.\n\nArticles may be written about anything as long as they are written well! \nWe are also interested in mirroring Newsletters and other information not\neasily accessible to non-intensive Macintosh Users.\n\nThe weekly deadline for submitting Materials is Wendsday 10:00pm (Eastern\nStandard Time).\nPlease send all submissions to: Journal@mail.trincoll.edu\n\nTo receive the Journal each Week send a mail message with the words\n\"Subscribe Journal\" as the subject line to: Journal@mail.trincoll.edu.\nPlease include Full name and instituion in the body of text.", "\nI copy relevant articles like this and post'em on local BBSes. Not\neveryone has newsgroup access. ;-)\n\n-Kelley-\n-- \n-----------------------------------------------------------------\nThomas Kelley Boylan, PowerPC, IBM Austin, kelleyb@austin.ibm.com", "\n\tKudos to Mark for his generous offer, but there already exists a\nlarge (email-based) forwarding system for sci.space posts: Space Digest.\nIt mirrors sci.space exactly, and provides simple two-way communication.\n\n\tTO SUBSCRIBE:\n\t Send the following message in the *body* (not subject) of an\n\t email message:\n\n\t\tsubscribe space John Q Public\n\n\t to one of these addresses:\n\n\t\tlistserv@uga\n\t\tlistserv@uga.cc.uga.edu\n\t\tlistserv@finhutc\n\t\tlistserv@finhuc.hut.fi\n\t\tspace-request@isu.isunet.edu\n\n\t You'll receive all the posts in \"digest\" form once a day. Please\n\t use a listserv if you can, the \"space-request\" address is handled\n\t manually.\n\n\tTO POST MESSAGES:\n\t Send your message (with a reasonable Subject line) to:\n\n\t\tspace@isu.isunet.edu\n\nQuestions, comments to space-request@isu.isunet.edu", "zyda@cs.nps.navy.mil (Michael Zyda) notes:\n\n\nI had the same problem and called the people who handle the box; the\nproblem happened some time ago and was caught almost instantly. All\nregistrations going to that address are now fixed. See what trouble\nyou get into when you don't procrastinate, Mike?\n\nAnd no, SIGGRAPH 93 has not skipped town -- we're preparing the best\nSIGGRAPH conference yet!", " ^^ missing \"r\"\n\nDana-Farber Cancer Institute\n44 Binney Street\nBoston, MA 02115\n\n(617)732-3000", "\n\nI want to subscribe, I am located in Israel and my name is David Gotlieb\n\n", "[Frank's solution deleted.]\n\nIf you have access to telnet, contact nyx.cs.du.edu. It's a public access\nUnix system, completly free, and all you need to for access is a verifiable\nform of ID (I think he requires a notarized copy of a picture, or a check, or\nsome such).", "I am looking for the email address of the World Health Organization,\nin particular the address for the Department of Nursing or the Chief\nScientist for Nursing: Dr. Miriam Hirschfeld. The snail-mail address I\nhave is the following:\n\n World Health Organization\n 20 Avenue Appia\n 1211 Geneva 27\n Switzerland\n\nPlease respond directly to me. Thank you for your assistance.\n\n\n\n --- elg ---", "Praise God! I'm writing everyone to inform you that I have been\naccepted to the Doctor of Psychology program at Fuller Theological\nSeminary in Pasadena, CA. I've been working long and hard to try to\nget in there and have said many hours of prayer. I'm very excited for\nthis opportunity, but also very nervous about it.\n\nI'd appreciate the prayers of the readers of this group for my preparation\nfor school this summer and for my career as a graduate student. I'd also\nappreciate any information any of the readers of this group might have \nabout Fuller, Pasadena, or California in general, like good places to\nhave fun, good churches to check out, or anything else that might be\ngood for me to know. Also, if anyone knows of any foundations that \nmight have funding or scholarship money available, please let me know!\nOf course, if you wish to make a personal contribution.....:)\n\nThe contract for my current job is over at the end of April. I'll be\ntaking a couple classes at UT this summer and then I'll be moving to\nPasadena. Hopefully, I'll be able to get net.access next fall, although\nFuller doesn't have it itself.\n\nI've enjoyed the interesting discussions and I commend everyone for their\nearnest search to please God. Thanks to our moderator for providing\nsuch a wonderful service and in doing a great job of running this news\ngroup.\n\nMay God bless you all. Vaya con Dios, mi amigas y amigos.\n\nPaul\n\n\n===============================================================================\nPaul Conditt\t\tInternet: conditt@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu\nApplied Research\tPhone:\t (512) 835-3422 FAX: (512) 835-3416/3259\n Laboratories\t\tFedex:\t 10000 Burnet Road, Austin, Texas 78758-4423\nUniversity of Texas\tPostal:\t P.O. Box 8029, Austin, Texas 78713-8029\nAustin, Texas <----- the most wonderful place in Texas to live\n", "From:\tMX%\"Andy.Macrae@Corp.Sun.COM\" 6-APR-1993 06:48:34.96\nTo:\tSRGXNBS\nCC:\t\nSubj:\tRe: I^2C bus and long haul serial (also Axlo\n\nReturn-Path: \nReceived: from Sun.COM by GRV.GRACE.CRI.NZ (MX V3.1C) with SMTP; Tue, 06 Apr\n 1993 06:48:29 +1300\nReceived: from Corp.Sun.COM (lemay.Corp.Sun.COM) by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id\n AA24280; Mon, 5 Apr 93 11:48:08 PDT\nReceived: from grendal.Corp.Sun.COM by Corp.Sun.COM (4.1/elliemay (corpmail1\n inbound)) id AA25933; Mon, 5 Apr 93 11:48:07 PDT\nReceived: by grendal.Corp.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05710; Mon, 5 Apr 93\n 11:47:28 PDT\nDate: Mon, 5 Apr 93 11:47:28 PDT\nFrom: Andy.Macrae@Corp.Sun.COM (Andrew MacRae)\nMessage-ID: <9304051847.AA05710@grendal.Corp.Sun.COM>\nTo: srgxnbs@grace.cri.nz\nSubject: Re: I^2C bus and long haul serial (also Axlo\nCC: Andy.Macrae@Corp.Sun.COM\ncontent-length: 693\n\n\nBruce,\n\tFor the latest information on Access.Bus call the Access.Bus\nIndustry Group at (408) 991-3517. Also, Sun will be hosting the next\nmeeting of the group on April 19th, here in Mountain View. For some reason\nI am not able to post to any newsgroups today, so please feel free to pass\nthis information on yourself as you see fit.", "\nThe author of Wcl (or the current care taker). His is the only name I found\nin the dist tree. I have tried to mail him at: David.Smyth@ap.mchp.sni.de,\nbut the mail bounced back.\nAny help in finding him will be greatly appreciated.\n\nTry\n\tdavid@ap542.uucp\n\tdavid%ap542@ztivax.siemens.com\n\n\nXtian.\n", "This is as bad as the \"Did You Know\" Japan bashing of 2 weeks ago. After\nfinding this set of postings for the third time I hope no one shows up.\n\nI don't know why fools insist on posting to every group. It just\nagrevates people. ", "I recently had to move and forgot to update my address to the Orthodox\nmailing list. Can anyone e-mail me the address for changes and what\nexactly I have to put in caps, etc? (please send the original\nsubscription address also). Thanks ahead of time! -Ed.", "Voting for creation of the newsgroup misc.health.diabetes ended at\n23:59 GMT on 29 Apr 93. At this time, the total response received\nconsisted of 155 votes for newsgroup creation and 14 votes against\nnewsgroup creation. Under the Guidelines for Usenet Group Creation,\nthis response constitutes a passing vote.\n\nThere will be a delay to allow time for the net to respond to this\nresult, after which the newsgroup misc.health.diabetes should be\ncreated.\n\nPlease check the vote acknowledgement list to be sure that your vote\nwas received and properly credited. Any inconsistencies or errors\nshould be reported to swkirch@sun6850.nrl.navy.mil by email.\n\nI want to thank everyone who participated in the discussion and vote\nfor this newsgroup proposal.\n\nThe following is the voting summary:\n\nVotes received against newsgroup creation:\n\ncline@usceast.cs.scarolina.edu Ernest A. Cline\ncoleman@twin.twinsun.com Mike Coleman\nejo@kaja.gi.alaska.edu Eric J. Olson\nelharo@shiva.njit.edu Elliotte Rusty Harold\nemcguire@intellection.com Ed McGuire\nhansenr@ohsu.EDU\nhmpetro@mosaic.uncc.edu Herbert M. Petro\njjmorris@gandalf.rutgers.edu Joyce Morris\njulian@bongo.tele.com Julian Macassey\nknauer@cs.uiuc.edu Rob Knauerhase\nlau@ai.sri.com Stephen Lau\nmacridis_g@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz Gerry Macridis\nowens@cookiemonster.cc.buffalo.edu Bill Owens\nrick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu Richard H. Miller\n\nVotes received for newsgroup creation:\n\n9781BMU@VMS.CSD.MU.EDU Bill Satterlee\na2wj@loki.cc.pdx.edu Jim Williams\nac534@freenet.carleton.ca Colin Henein\nad@cat.de Axel Dunkel\nal198723@academ07.mty.itesm.mx Jesus Sanchez Pe~a\nandrea@unity.ncsu.edu\nanugula@badlands.NoDak.edu RamaKrishna Reddy Anugula\napps@sneaks.Kodak.com Robert W. Apps\narperd00@mik.uky.edu Alicia R. Perdue\nbaind@gov.on.ca Dave Bain\nbalamut@morris.hac.com Morris Balamut\nbch@Juliet.Caltech.Edu Bryan Hathorn\nbernsteinn@LONEXA.ADMIN.RL.AF.MIL Norman P. Bernstein\nBGAINES@ollamh.ucd.ie Brian Gaines\nbgeer@beorn.sim.es.com Bob Geer\nBjorn.B.Larsen@delab.sintef.no Bjorn B. Larsen\nbobw@hpsadwc.sad.hp.com Bob Waltenspiel\nbock@VSIKP0.UNI-MUENSTER.DE Dirk Bock\nbruce@uxb.liverpool.ac.uk Bruce Stephens\nbspencer@binkley.cs.mcgill.ca Brian Spencer\nclaudia@LONEXA.ADMIN.RL.AF.MIL Claudia Servadio-Coyne\ncompass-da.com!tomd@compass-da.com Thomas Donnelly\nconstabiled@LONEXA.ADMIN.RL.AF.MIL Diane Constabile\ncsc@coast.ucsd.edu Charles Coughran\ncurtech!sbs@unh.edu Stephanie Bradley-Swift\ndebrum#m#_brenda@msgate.corp.apple.com Brenda DeBrum\ndlb@fanny.wash.inmet.com David Barton\ndlg1@midway.uchicago.edu Deborah Lynn Gillaspie\ndougb@comm.mot.com Douglas Bank\ndrs@sunsrvr3.cci.com Dale R. Seim\ndt4%cs@hub.ucsb.edu David E. Goggin\ned@titipu.resun.com Edward Reid\nedmoore@hpvclc.vcd.hp.com Ed Moore\nemilio@Accurate.COM Elizabeth Milio\newc@hplb.hpl.hp.com Enrico Coiera\n\"feathr::bluejay\"@ampakz.enet.dec.com\nfranklig@GAS.uug.Arizona.EDU Gregory C. Franklin\nFSSPR@acad3.alaska.edu\ngabe@angus.mi.org Gabe Helou\ngasp@medg.lcs.mit.edu Isaac Kohane\ngavin@praxis.co.uk Gavin Finnie\nGeir.Millstein@TF.tele.no Geir Millstein\nggurman@cory.Berkeley.EDU Gail Gurman\nggw@wolves.Durham.NC.US Gregory G. Woodbury\ngmalet@surfer.win.net Gary Malet\nGONZALEZ@SUHEP.PHY.SYR.EDU Gabriela Gonzalez\ngreenlaw@oasys.dt.navy.mil Leila Thomas\ngrm+@andrew.cmu.edu Gretchen Miller\nhalderc@cs.rpi.edu Carol Halder\nHANDELAP%DUVM.BITNET@pucc.Princeton.EDU Phil Handel\nhc@Nyongwa.cam.org\nheddings@chrisco.nrl.navy.mil Hubert Heddings\nherbison@lassie.ucx.lkg.dec.com\nHOSCH2263@iscsvax.uni.edu Kathleen Hosch\nhrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu Herman Rubin\nHUDSOIB@AUDUCADM.DUC.AUBURN.EDU Ingrid B. Hudson\nhuff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU Edward J. Huff\nhuffman@ingres.com Gary Huffman\nHUYNH_1@ESTD.NRL.NAVY.MIL Minh Huynh\nishbeld@cix.compulink.co.uk Ishbel Donkin\nJames.Langdell@Eng.Sun.COM James Langdell\njamie@SSD.intel.com Jamie Weisbrod\njamyers@netcom.com John A. Myers\njc@crosfield.co.uk Jerry Cullingford\njcobbe@garnet.acns.fsu.edu James Cobbe\njesup@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com Randell Jesup\njoannm@hpcc01.corp.hp.com JoAnn McGowan\njoep@dap.csiro.au Joe Petranovic\nJohn.Burton@acenet.auburn.edu John E. Burton, Jr.\njohncha@comm.mot.com\nJORGENSONKE@CC.UVCC.EDU Keith Jorgenson\njpsum00@mik.uky.edu Joey P. Sum\nJTM@ucsfvm.ucsf.edu John Maynard\njulien@skcla.monsanto.com\nkaminski@netcom.com Peter Kaminski\nkerry@citr.uq.oz.au Kerry Raymond\nkieran@world.std.com Aaron L. Dickey\nkolar@spot.Colorado.EDU Jennifer Lynn Kolar\nkriguer@tcs.com Marc Kriguer\nlaurie@LONEXA.ADMIN.RL.AF.MIL Laurie J. Key\nlee@hal.com Lee Boylan\nlmt6@po.cwru.edu Lia M. Treffman\nlunie@Lehigh.EDU\nlusgr@chili.CC.Lehigh.EDU Stephen G. Roseman\nM.Beamish@ins.gu.edu.au Marilyn Beamish\nM.Rich@ens.gu.edu.au Maurice H. Rich\nmaas@cdfsga.fnal.gov Peter Maas\nmarilyn@LONEXA.ADMIN.RL.AF.MIL Marilyn M. Tucker\nmarkv@hpvcivm.vcd.hp.com Mark Vanderford\nMASCHLER@vms.huji.ac.il Michael Maschler\nmcb@net.bio.net Michael C. Berch\nmcday@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu Marrianne C. Day\nmcookson@flute.calpoly.edu\nmelynda@titipu.resun.com Melynda Reid\nmfc@isr.harvard.edu Mauricio F. Contreras\nmg@wpi.edu Martha Gunnarson\nmhollowa@libserv1.ic.sunysb.edu Michael Holloway\nmisha@abacus.concordia.ca Misha Glouberman \nmjb@cs.brown.edu Manish Butte\nMOFLNGAN@vax1.tcd.ie Margaret O' Flanagan\nmuir@idiom.berkeley.ca.us David Muir Sharnoff\nN.D.Treby@southampton.ac.uk N. D. Treby\nN.J.C.Hookey@durham.ac.uk N. J. C. Hookey\nNancy.Block@Eng.Sun.COM Nancy Block\nndallen@r-node.hub.org Nigel Allen\nnlemur@eecs.umich.edu Nigel Lemur\nnlr@B31.nei.nih.gov Nathan Rohrer\npams@hpfcmp.fc.hp.com Pam Sullivan\npapresco@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca Paul Prescod\npaslowp@cs.rpi.edu Pam Paslow\nphil@unet.umn.edu Phil Lindberg\npillinc@gov.on.ca Christopher Pilling\npkane@cisco.com Peter Kane\npmmuggli@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu Pauline Muggli\npopelka@odysseus.uchicago.edu Glenn Popelka\npulkka@cs.washington.edu Aaron Pulkka\npwatkins@med.unc.edu Pat Watkins\nrbnsn@mosaic.shearson.com Ken Robinson\nrmasten@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Roger Masten\nrobyn@media.mit.edu Robyn Kozierok\nrolf@green.mathematik.uni-stuttgart.de Rolf Schreiber\nsageman@cup.portal.com\nsasjcs@unx.sas.com Joan Stout\nsca@space.physics.uiowa.edu Scott Allendorf\nSCOTTJOR@delphi.com\nscrl@hplb.hpl.hp.com\nscs@vectis.demon.co.uk Stuart C. Squibb\nshan@techops.cray.com Sharan Kalwani\nsharen@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com Sharen A. Rund\nshazam@unh.edu Matthew T. Thompson\nshipman@csab.larc.nasa.gov Floyd S. Shipman\nshoppa@ERIN.CALTECH.EDU Tim Shoppa\nsjsmith@cs.UMD.EDU Stephen Joseph Smith\nslillie@cs1.bradley.edu Susan Lillie\nsteveo@world.std.com Steven W. Orr\nsurendar@ivy.WPI.EDU Surendar Chandra\nswkirch@sun6850.nrl.navy.mil Steven Kirchoefer\nS_FAGAN@twu.edu Liz Fagan\nTARYN@ARIZVM1.ccit.arizona.edu Taryn L. Westergaard\nThomas.E.Taylor@gagme.chi.il.us Thomas E. Taylor\ntima@CFSMO.Honeywell.COM Timothy D. Aanerud\ntsamuel%gollum@relay.nswc.navy.mil Tony Samuel\nU45301@UICVM.UIC.EDU Mary Jacobs \nvstern@gte.com Vanessa Stern\nwahlgren@haida.van.wti.com James Wahlgren\nWaldref@tv.tv.tek.com Greg Waldref\nwaterfal@pyrsea.sea.pyramid.com Douglas Waterfall\nweineja1@teomail.jhuapl.edu\nwgrant@informix.com William Grant\nWINGB@Underdale.UniSA.edu.au Brian Wing\nYEAGER@mscf.med.upenn.edu\nyozzo@watson.ibm.com Ralph E. Yozzo\nysharma@yamuna.b11.ingr.com Yamuna Sharma\nZ919016@beach.utmb.edu Molly Hamilton\nzulu@iesd.auc.dk Bjoern U. Gregersen\n\nThe charter for misc.health.diabetes appears below.\n \n--------------------------\n \nCharter: \n \nmisc.health.diabetes unmoderated\n \n1. The purpose of misc.health.diabetes is to provide a forum for the\ndiscussion of issues pertaining to diabetes management, i.e.: diet,\nactivities, medicine schedules, blood glucose control, exercise,\nmedical breakthroughs, etc. This group addresses the issues of\nmanagement of both Type I (insulin dependent) and Type II (non-insulin\ndependent) diabetes. Both technical discussions and general support\ndiscussions relevant to diabetes are welcome.\n \n2. Postings to misc.heath.diabetes are intended to be for discussion\npurposes only, and are in no way to be construed as medical advice.\nDiabetes is a serious medical condition requiring direct supervision\nby a primary health care physician. \n \n-----(end of charter)-----", "sorry about that last post, my server neglected to send the message:", "\n[Dan's article deleted]\n\nI found the same add in our local Sunday newspaper.\nThe add was placed in the ..... cartoon section!\nThe perfect place for it ! :-)", "\u0002ubject: subscrive\n\n\nplease subscribe me.", "Sorry to clog up the news group with this message.\n\nWayne Rigby, I have the info you requested, but for some\nreason I can not mail it to you. Please contact me!\nSend email address.\nj\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\"No Real Programmer can function without caffeine\" - Zen + Art of Internet\n\n _/_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/ John S. Muller\n _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ muller@diego.llnl.gov\n _/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ muller@sisal.llnl.gov\n _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ jmuller@libserv1.ic.sunysb.edu \n _/_/_/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ \n\n\"You are not drunk until you have to grab the grass,\n to keep the grass from falling off the earth\" - Some Stupid Comedian", "In , thomasr@cpqhou.se.hou.compaq.com sez:\n\nThis is all terribly interesting, but it doesn't belong in misc.legal.\nTake it elsewhere, please.\n\n-- \n Have you hugged your common nucleus of operative fact today?", "Please satisfy my curiosity. I'm interested in finding out who is using the\ne-mail system. Please do not flood me with mail after April 21st. Thanks!\nMaria Alice Ruth mao111@psuvm.bitnet or @psuvm.psu.edu\n\n1. Are you male or female?\n\n2. How long have you been using the e-mail system?\n\n3. How do you have access (at work, at school, etc)?\n\n4. Who taught you how to use the system? Is that person male or female?\n\n5. Have you helped anyone to learn the system? Was that person(s) male or\n female?\n\n6. Which net did you find my questions on?\n\n7. Which other nets are you interested in?", "subscribe comp.graphics\nquit\n", "If available please send to\nGlen Moore\nDirector\nScience Centre\nWollongong, Australia\nfax: 61 42 213151 email: gkm@cc.uow.edu.au\n\n", "\nI know you said E-mail preferred but because this is a common problem\nwith WPWin I'll post it here.", "Archive-Name: rec-autos/part2\n\nAutomotive Mailing Lists (Electronic Mail, that is):\n\n[last updated 3/17/93; new lotus, exotic cars list subscription info;\n added Portland, OR motorsports list, Corvair list, Triumph TR8 list -- rpw]\n\nThere are a number of electronic mailing lists on the network devoted to\nvarious special automotive topics.\n\nTo the best of my knowledge, all the lists appearing here have open\nmembership policies. It is my policy not to list `closed' mailing lists\nhere.\n\nMost mailing lists provide separate addresses for administrative\nqueries and for general mail; where separate administrative\naddresses exist, I have listed those below, as the general addresses\nare not appropriate for inquirys and requests.\n\nAudi\n (send requests to quattro-request@aries.east.sun.com)\n\nAutocross/Solo\n (send requests to autox-request@hoosier.cs.utah.edu)\n\nBMW\n (send requests to bmw-request@balltown.cma.com\n both regular and digest forms available)\n\nBritish Cars\n (send requests to british-cars-request@hoosier.cs.utah.edu)\n\nBuick Grand National/Regal/GNX\n (send requests to gnttype-request@srvsn2.monsanto.com)\n\nCamaro/Firebird (GM F-body)\n (send requests to f-body-request@boogie.EBay.Sun.COM)\n\nCorvair\n (send requests to bryan@pegasus.mitre.org)\n\nCorvettes\n there are two lists; the first is more of a competition oriented\n list, and the second is more general in nature (or so i am told)\n\n Competition:\n (send requests to vettes-request@cimage.com)\n General:\n (send requests to vettes-request@compaq.com)\n\nDatsun/Fairlady Roadsters\n (send requests to datsun-roadsters-request@hoosier.cs.utah.edu)\n\nDodge Stealth/Mitsubishi 3000GT\n\t(send requests to stealth-req%jim.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu)\n\nEclipse/Talon/Laser\n (send requests to diginst!talon-request@radius.com)\n\nElectric Vehicles\n (send requests to info-ev-request@ymir.claremont.edu)\n\nExotic-Cars\n\t (send requests to exotic-cars-request@sol.asl.hitachi.com)\n\nFabrication (race cars)\n\t (send requests to racefab-request@pms706.pms.ford.com)\n\nInternational Harvester (discussion of Scouts, pickups, etc.)\n\t (send requests to ihc-request@balltown.cma.com)\n\nItalian Cars\n\t (send requests to italian-cars-request@balltown.cma.com;\n both regular and digest forms available)\n\nHondas\n listserv@brownvm.brown.edu; use standard listserv subscription\n procedure: the mail message body to listserv should be\n \"sub HONDA-L your-real-name\" with no subject line in the header\n\nHot rods\n (send requests to hotrod-request@dixie.com)\n\nLand Rovers\n\t (send requests to land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com)\n\nLotus\n\t (send requests to lotus-cars-request@netcom.com)\n\nMazdas\n (send requests to mazda-list-request@ms.uky.edu)\n\nMiata\n listserv@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu; use standard listserv subscription\n procedure: the mail message body to listserv should be\n \"sub miata your-real-name\" with no subject line in the header\n\nMerkurs\n (send requests to merkur-request@pcad.UUCP)\n\nMopar\n (mostly high performance Chrysler, Dodge, Plymouth products.\n send requests to mopar@casbah.acns.nwu.edu)\n\nMR2\n (send requests to mr2-interest-request@validgh.com)\n\nMustangs\n There are two lists, the first is for Mustangs through 1973,\n the second for Mustangs from 1980 on. nobody cares about\n the Mustang II, so don't ask.\n\n classic:\n (send requests to classic-mustangs-request@hpfctjc.fc.hp.com)\n modern:\n\t (send requests to mustangs-request@cup.hp.com)\n\nOffroad & 4X4\n (send requests to offroad-request@ai.gtri.gatech.edu)\n\nPorsches\n\t (send requests to porschephiles-request@tta.com)\n\nPortland, Oregon Motorsports Activities\n (send requests to pdxracer-request@reed.edu)\n\nRally\n (send requests to rally-request@stratus.com)\n\nRX7\n\t (send requests to jjn@cblpf.ATT.COM)\n\nSaabs\n (send requests to saab@network.mhs.compuserve.com)\n\nSaturn\n (send requests to saturn-request@oar.net)\n\nSchool (high performance driving schools)\n (send requests to school-request@balltown.cma.com)\n\nSentra SE-R, G20, N2000\n (send requests to se-r-request@pencom.com)\n\nSupras\n (send requests to supras-request@vicor.com)\n\nToyota\n\t (send requests to toyota-request@quack.sac.ca.us)\n\nTriumph TR7/V8, TR8\n (send requests to jtc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu)\n\nVolvos\n\t (requests to swedishbricks-request@me.rochester.edu)\n\nWheel-to-Wheel Racing\n (forum for race drivers, workers, crew, and wannabes;\n send requests to wheeltowheel-request@abingdon.sun.com)\n\nZ-Cars (Nissan/Datsun)\n (send requests to z-car-request@dixie.com)", "\n\nso when is PRODIGY going to open the doors for inetgate to accept\ninternet mail eh?\n\nobviously if you can post news, mail should go through as well..\n\n", "Does NuTek (or anyone at NuTek) have an email address?\n\nIf not, why not? =)\n", "\nCould someone please send me the postal and email address of\nCongruent Corporation (and any competitors they may have).\n\nThank you.\n-- \nsnail@lsl.co.uk ", "Sorry but I forgot this ps.\n\nRight now my sight is getting news about two weeks behind so it's \nkind of necessary (to me) that any responses be sent to me directly.\n\n\nThanks a lot", "\n\nI would be veru interested also, if there is one.\nCould someone please send me some info?", "Does anyone know how can I get detailed information about PALs and GALs.\nPlease reply via e-mail.\nThanks a lot in advance.", "\nAnd seen from my point of view, I get far too much articles to keep up with\nthem. I am lucky if I can scan through the subjects from time to time.\n\n-- \n Dipl.-Inform. Rainer Klute I R B : immer richtig beraten\n Univ. Dortmund, IRB\n Postfach 500500 |)|/ Tel.: +49 231 755-4663\nD-W4600 Dortmund 50 |\\|\\ Fax : +49 231 755-2386", "Brandon Wise\nbwise@nyx.cs.du.edu\n\n\n", "Anyone have a phone number for Applied Engineering so I can give them\na call?", "Would someone please leave me the full address for Canon in Canada.\nthank you.\n\n--- Via UCI v1.21 (C-Net Amiga)", "\nCompuServe is in Columbus, OH. So are the corporate headquarters of several \nmajor insurance companies, the largest private R&D company in the world \n(Batelle Memorial Institute), DCSC (The Defense Construction & Supply \nCenter), Ohio State University (one of the three largest US universities), \nOCLC (the Online College Library Center), and so on. You'd be amazed, \nactually.\n\nColumbus only *looks* like a cow town.\n", "\nIf anyone knows of such a site could they please send it to me also.\nthanks", " Please replay to : yxy4145@usl.edu\n Thanks a lot\n\n", "\nHere is a list of the FirstClass systems in Illinois:\n\nChicago Machine Chicago, IL (312) 233-9607\nInsane Domain Chicago, IL (312) 274-9515\nMAC Universe BBS Chicago, IL (312) 235-6794\nThe NET Rockford, IL (815) 968-4729\nMacTRIPP Wilmette, IL (708) 251-4158\nInnovators Vernon Hills, IL\t \t(708) 918-1231\n\nIf anyone wants the numbers to more FirstClass systems, I would be glad to\npost the complete list.\n- Jason Hyerstay\n- Adrenaline Admin", "...\n\nIn reply to mail queries; I don't know if a video is available yet. I asked\nabout a month ao and was told RSN.\n\nSeveral have also asked which of Chomskys books. My answer is ALL of them, and\nanything else you can get as well. How ever, due to irritations like the 24 hr\nday etc, I would say 'Manafacturing Conscent' first, them th last parts of\n'Detering Democracy' ie the bits about the \"domestic 3rd world\". Chilling.\n\nAnyone at MIT have a good St. Noam bibliography?", "\nWhy? There is no need to go into this.......\n\n\nespecially this rivetting piece of information.\n\n\nAs I remember, someone did ask if UV had a speach code. But, really,\nthere is no need for this brief survey course. \n\n\nHow wonderful for you.\n\n\n", "REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION\n\nThis is a request for discussion on the creation of a newsgroup\nconcerning Saab cars. It will allow participaants to exchange\ninformation on purchasing, maintaining, repairing, and outfitting\nSaabs.\n\nGroup Name:\n\n\trec.autos.saab\n\nStatus:\n\n\tUnmoderated\n\nRationale:\n\n\tThere may be enough people with Saab cars or interested in\n\tbuying a Saab or interested in knowing more about Saabs for any\n\treason to justify such a new newsgroup. The recent growth of\n\tthe net could improve the turnaround time between posing a\n\tquestion and receiving answers from the community.\n\nDiscussion:\n\n\tComments on this proposed new newsgroup should be posted to the\n\tUSENET Newsgroup \"news.groups\". If the reader is not able to\n\tdo so, comments may be e-mailed to the proposer, at the address\n\tbelow.\n\nVoting:\n\n\tIf no problems arise, voting will start 1 month from the\n\tposting date of this RFD.\n\nProposer:\n\nTommy Reingold tommy@boole.att.com", null ], "marker": { "opacity": 0.5, "size": 5 }, "mode": "markers+text", "name": "12_of_and_the", "text": [ "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "12_of_and_the" ], "textfont": { "size": 12 }, "type": "scattergl", "x": { "bdata": 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"dtype": "f4" } }, { "hoverinfo": "text", "hovertext": [ "April 24th is approaching, and Armenians around the world\nare getting ready to remember the massacres of their family members\nby the Turkish government between 1915 and 1920. \n At least 1.5 Million Armenians perished during that period,\nand it is important to note that those who deny that this event\never took place, either supported the policy of 1915 to exterminate\nthe Armenians, or, as we have painfully witnessed in Azerbaijan,\nwould like to see it happen again...\n Thank you for taking the time to read this post.", "\n\nDr. Goebels thought that a lie repeated enough times could finally \nbe believed. I have been observing that 'Poly' has been practicing \nGoebels' rule quite loyally. 'Poly's audience is mostly made of Greeks \nwho are not allowed to listen to Turkish news. However, in today's \ninformed world Greek propagandists can only fool themselves. For \ninstance, those who lived in 1974 will remember the TV news they \nwatched and the newspapers they read and the younger generation can \nread the American newspapers of July and August 1974 to find out what \nreally happened. \n\nThere are in Turkiye the Greek Hospital, The Greek Girls' Lycee \nAlumni Association, the Principo Islands Greek Benevolent Society, \nthe Greek Medical Foundation, the Principo Greek Orphanage Foundation, \nthe Yovakimion Greek Girls' Lycee Foundation, and the Fener Greek \nMen's Lycee Foundation. \n\nAs for Greece, the longstanding use of the adjective 'Turkish' \nin titles and on signboards is prohibited. The Greek courts \nhave ordered the closure of the Turkish Teachers' Association, \nthe Komotini Turkish Youth Association and the Ksanti \nTurkish Association on grounds that there are no Turks\nin Western Thrace. Such community associations had been \nactive until 1984. But they were first told to remove\nthe word 'Turkish' on their buildings and on their official\npapers and then eventually close down. This is also the \nfinal verdict (November 4, 1987) of the Greek High Court.\n\nIn the city of Komotini, a former Greek Parliamentarian of Turkish\nparentage, was sentenced recently to 18 months of imprisonment\nwith no right to appeal, just for saying outloud that he was\nof Turkish descent. This duly-elected ethnic Turkish official\nwas also deprived of his political rights for a period of three \nyears. Each one of these barbaric acts seems to be none other than \na vehicle, used by the Greek governments, to cover-up their inferiority \ncomplex they display, vis-a-vis, the people of Turkiye. \n\nThe Agreement on the Exchange of Minorities uses the term 'Turks,' \nwhich demonstrates what is actually meant by the previous reference \nto 'Muslims.' The fact that the Greek governments also mention the \nexistence of a few thousand non-Turkish Muslims does not change the \nessential reality that there lives in Western Thrace a much bigger \nTurkish minority. The 'Pomaks' are also a Muslim people, whom all the \nthree nations (Bulgarians, Turks, and Greeks) consider as part of \nthemselves. Do you know how the Muslim Turkish minority was organized \naccording to the agreements? Poor 'Poly.'\n\nIt also proves that the Turkish people are trapped in Greece \nand the Greek people are free to settle anywhere in the world.\nThe Greek authorities deny even the existence of a Turkish\nminority. They pursue the same denial in connection with \nthe Macedonians of Greece. Talk about oppression. In addition,\nin 1980 the 'democratic' Greek Parliament passed Law No. 1091,\nvirtually taking over the administration of the vakiflar and\nother charitable trusts. They have ceased to be self-supporting\nreligious and cultural entities. Talk about fascism. The Greek \ngovernments are attempting to appoint the muftus, irrespective\nof the will of the Turkish minority, as state official. Although\nthe Orthodox Church has full authority in similar matters in\nGreece, the Muslim Turkish minority will have no say in electing\nits religious leaders. Talk about democracy.\n\nThe government of Greece has recently destroyed an Islamic \nconvention in Komotini. Such destruction, which reflects an \nattitude against the Muslim Turkish cultural heritage, is a \nviolation of the Lausanne Convention as well as the 'so-called' \nGreek Constitution, which is supposed to guarantee the protection \nof historical monuments. \n\nThe government of Greece, on the other hand, is building new \nchurches in remote villages as a complementary step toward \nHellenizing the region.\n\nAnd you pondered. Sidiropoulos, the president of the Macedonian Human \nRights Committee, became the latest victim of a tactic long used by \nthe Greeks to silence critics of policies of forced assimilation \nof the Macedonian minority. A forestry official by occupation, \nSidiropoulos has been sent to 'internal exile' on the island of \nKefalonia, hundreds of kilometers away from his native Florina. \nHis employer, the Florina City Council, asked him to depart in \n24 hours. The Greek authorities are trying to punish him for his \ninvolvement in Copenhagen. He returned to Florina by his own choice \nand remains without a job. \n\nHelsinki Watch, a well-known Human Rights group, had been investigating \nthe plight of the Turkish Minority in Greece. In August 1990, their \nfindings were published in a report titled \n\n 'Destroying Ethnic Identity: Turks of Greece.'\n\nThe report confirmed gross violations of the Human Rights of the \nTurkish minority by the Greek authorities. It says for instance, \nthe Greek government recently destroyed an Islamic convent in \nKomotini. Such destruction, which reflects an attitude against \nthe Muslim Turkish cultural heritage, is a violation of the \nLausanne Convention. \n\nThe Turkish cemeteries in the village of Vafeika and in Pinarlik\nwere attacked, and tombstones were broken. The cemetery in\nKarotas was razed by bulldozers.\n\nShall I go on? Why not? The people of Turkiye are not going \nto take human rights lessons from the Greek Government. The \ndiscussion of human rights violations in Greece does not \nstop at the Greek frontier. In several following articles \nI shall dwell on and expose the Greek treatment of Turks\nin Western Thrace and the Aegean Macedonians.\n\nIt has been reported that the Greek Cypriot administration \nhas an intense desire for arms and that Greece has made \nplans to supply it with the tanks and armored vehicles it \nhas to destroy in accordance with the agreement reached on \nconventional arms reductions in Europe. Meanwhile, Greek \nand Greek Cypriot officials are reported to have planned \nto take ostentatious measures aimed at camouflaging the \ntransfer of these tanks and armored vehicles to southern \nCyprus, a process that will conflict with the spirit of \nthe agreement on conventional arms reduction in Europe.\n\nAn acceptable method may certainly be found when there\nis a will. But we know of various kinds of violent\nbehaviors ranging from physical attacks to the burning\nof buildings. The rugs at the Amfia village mosque were \ndragged out to the front of the building and burnt there. \nShots were fired on the mosque in the village of Aryana.\n\nNow wait, there is more.\n\n 'Greek Atrocities in the Vilayet of Smyrna (May to July 1919), Inedited\n Documents and Evidence of English and French Officers,' Published by\n The Permanent Bureau of the Turkish Congress at Lausanne, Lausanne,\n Imprimerie Petter, Giesser & Held, Caroline, 5 (1919).\n\n pages 82-83:\n\n<< 1. The train going from Denizli to Smyrna was stopped at Ephesus\n and the 90 Turkish travellers, men and women who were in it ordered\n to descend. And there in the open street, under the eyes of their\n husbands, fathers and brothers, the women without distinction of age\n were violated, and then all the travellers were massacred. Amongst\n the latter the Lieutenant Salih Effendi, a native of Tripoli, and a\n captain whose name is not known, and to whom the Hellenic authorities\n had given safe conduct, were killed with specially atrocious tortures.\n\n 2. Before the battle, the wife of the lawyer Enver Bey coming from\n her garden was maltreated by Greek soldiers, she was even stript\n of her garments and her servant Assie was violated.\n\n 3. The two tax gatherers Mustapha and Ali Effendi were killed in the\n following manner: Their arms were bound behind their backs with wire\n and their heads were battered and burst open with blows from the butt\n end of a gun.\n\n 4. During the firing of the town, eleven children, six little girls\n and five boys, fleeing from the flames, were stopped by Greek soldiers\n in the Ramazan Pacha quarter, and thrown into a burning Jewish house\n near bridge, where they were burnt alive. This fact is confirmed on oath\n by the retired commandant Hussein Hussni Effendi who saw it.\n\n 5. The clock-maker Ahmed Effendi and his son Sadi were arrested and\n dragged out of their shop. The son had his eyes put out and was then\n killed in the court of the Greek Church, but Ahmed Effendi has been\n no more heard of.\n\n 6. At the market, during the fire, two unknown people were wounded\n by bayonets, then bound together, thrown into the fire and burnt alive.\n\n The Greeks killed also many Jews. These are the names of some:\n\n Moussa Malki, shoemaker killed\n Bohor Levy, tailor killed\n Bohor Israel, cobbler killed\n Isaac Calvo, shoemaker killed\n David Aroguete killed\n Moussa Lerosse killed\n Gioia Katan killed\n Meryem Malki killed\n Soultan Gharib killed\n Isaac Sabah wounded\n Moche Fahmi wounded\n David Sabah wounded\n Moise Bensignor killed\n Sarah Bendi killed\n Jacob Jaffe wounded\n Aslan Halegna wounded....>>\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nSo, did the Jews kill the Germans? \nYou even make Armenians laugh.\n\n\"An appropriate analogy with the Jewish Holocaust might be the\n systematic extermination of the entire Muslim population of \n the independent republic of Armenia which consisted of at \n least 30-40 percent of the population of that republic. The \n memoirs of an Armenian army officer who participated in and \n eye-witnessed these atrocities was published in the U.S. in\n 1926 with the title 'Men Are Like That.' Other references abound.\"\n (Rachel A. Bortnick - The Jewish Times - June 21, 1990)\n\n\nYes. To be exact, Armenians slaughtered 2.5 million Muslim people between \n1914 and 1920.\n\n\nSource #1: McCarthy, J., \"Muslims and Minorities, The Population of Ottoman \n Anatolia and the End of the Empire,\" New York University Press, \n New York, 1983, pp. 133-144.\n\nSource #2: Hovannisian, Richard G., \"Armenia on the Road to Independence,\n 1918. University of California Press (Berkeley and Los Angeles),\n 1967, p. 13.\n\nSource: Hovannisian, Richard G.: Armenia on the Road to Independence, 1918.\nUniversity of California Press (Berkeley and Los Angeles), 1967, p. 13.\n\n\"The addition of the Kars and Batum oblasts to the Empire increased the\n area of Transcaucasia to over 130,000 square miles. The estimated population\n of the entire region in 1886 was 4,700,000, of whom 940,000 (20 percent) were\n Armenian, 1,200,000 (25 percent) Georgian, and 2,220,000 (45 percent) Moslem.\n Of the latter group, 1,140,000 were Tatars. Paradoxically, barely one-third\n of Transcaucasia's Armenians lived in the Erevan guberniia, where the \n Christians constituted a majority in only three of the seven uezds. Erevan\n uezd, the administrative center of the province, had only 44,000 Armenians\n as compared to 68,000 Moslems. By the time of the Russian Census of 1897,\n however, the Armenians had established a scant majority, 53 percent, in the\n guberniia; it had risen by 1916 to 60 percent, or 670,000 of the 1,120,000\n inhabitants. This impressive change in the province's ethnic character \n notwithstanding, there was, on the eve of the creation of the Armenian \n Republic, a solid block of 370,000 Tartars who continued to dominate the \n southern districts, from the outskirts of Ereven to the border of Persia.\" \n (See also Map 1. Historic Armenia and Map 4. Administrative subdivisions of \n Transcaucasia).\n\nIn 1920, '0' percent Turk. \n\n\"We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as \n ways of escape for the Tartars and then proceeded in the work \n of extermination. Our troops surrounded village after village. \n Little resistance was offered. Our artillery knocked the huts \n into heaps of stone and dust and when the villages became untenable \n and inhabitants fled from them into fields, bullets and bayonets \n completed the work. Some of the Tartars escaped of course. They \n found refuge in the mountains or succeeded in crossing the border \n into Turkey. The rest were killed. And so it is that the whole \n length of the borderland of Russian Armenia from Nakhitchevan to \n Akhalkalaki from the hot plains of Ararat to the cold mountain \n plateau of the North were dotted with mute mournful ruins of \n Tartar villages. They are quiet now, those villages, except for \n howling of wolves and jackals that visit them to paw over the \n scattered bones of the dead.\" \n\n Ohanus Appressian\n \"Men Are Like That\"\n p. 202.\n\n\n SOME OF THE REFERENCES FROM EMINENT AUTHORS IN THE FIELD OF MIDDLE-EASTERN\n HISTORY AND EYEWITNESSES OF THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE OF 2.5 MILLION MUSLIMS\n\n1. \"The Armenian Revolutionary Movement\" by Louise Nalbandian,\n University of California Press, Berkeley, Los Angeles, 1975\n\n2. \"Diplomacy of Imperialism 1890-1902\" by William I. Lenger, Professor\n of History, Harward University, Boston, Alfred A. Knopt, New York, 1951\n\n3. \"Turkey in Europe\" by Sir Charles Elliot, \n Edward & Arnold, London, 1900\n\n4. \"The Chatnam House Version and Other Middle-Eastern Studies\" by\n Elie Kedouri, Praeger Publishers, New York, Washington, 1972\n\n5. \"The Rising Crescent\" by Ernest Jackh,\n Farrar & Reinhart, Inc., New York & Toronto, 1944\n\n6. \"Spiritual and Political Evolutions in Islam\" by Felix Valyi,\n Mogan, Paul, Trench & Truebner & Co., London, 1925\n\n7. \"The Struggle for Power in Moslem Asia\" by E. Alexander Powell,\n The Century Co., New York, London, 1924\n\n8. \"Struggle for Transcaucasia\" by Feruz Kazemzadeh,\n Yale University Press, New Haven, Conn., 1951\n\n9. \"History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey\" (2 volumes) by\n Stanford J. Shaw, Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, New York,\n Melbourne, 1977\n\n10.\"The Western Question in Greece and Turkey\" by Arnold J. Toynbee,\n Constable & Co., Ltd., London, Bombay & Sydney, 1922\n\n11.\"The Caliph's Last Heritage\" by Sir Mark Sykes,\n Macmillan & Co., London, 1915\n\n12.\"Men Are Like That\" by Leonard A. Hartill,\n Bobbs Co., Indianapolis, 1928\n\n13.\"Adventures in the Near East, 1918-22\" by A. Rawlinson,\n Dodd, Meade & Co., 1925\n\n14.\"World Alive, A Personal Story\" by Robert Dunn,\n Crown Publishers, Inc., New York, 1952\n\n15.\"From Sardarapat to Serves and Lousanne\" by Avetis Aharonian,\n The Armenian Review Magazine, Volume 15 (Fall 1962) through 17 \n (Spring 1964)\n\n16.\"Armenia on the Road to Independence\" by Richard G. Hovanessian,\n University of California Press, Berkeley, California, 1967\n\n17.\"The Rebirth of Turkey\" by Clair Price,\n Thomas Seltzer, New York, 1923\n\n18.\"Caucasian Battlefields\" by W. B. Allen & Paul Muratoff,\n Cambridge, 1953\n\n19.\"Partition of Turkey\" by Harry N. Howard,\n H. Fertig, New York, 1966\n \n20.\"The King-Crane Commission\" by Harry N. Howard,\n Beirut, 1963\n\n21.\"United States Policy and Partition of Turkey\" by Laurence Evans,\n John Hopkins University Press, Baltimore, 1965\n\n22.\"British Documents Related to Turkish War of Independence\" by Gothard \n Jaeschke\n \n1. Neside Kerem Demir, \"Bir Sehid Anasina Tarihin Soyledikleri: \n Turkiye'nin Ermeni Meselesi,\" Hulbe Basim ve Yayin T.A.S., \n Ankara, 1982. (Ingilizce Birinci Baski: 1980, \"The Armenian \n Question in Turkey\")\n\n2. Veysel Eroglu, \"Ermeni Mezalimi,\" Sebil Yayinevi, Istanbul, 1978.\n\n3. A. Alper Gazigiray, \"Osmanlilardan Gunumuze Kadar Vesikalarla Ermeni\n Teroru'nun Kaynaklari,\" Gozen Kitabevi, Istanbul, 1982.\n\n4. Dr. Kirzioglu M. Fahrettin, \"Kars Ili ve Cevresinde Ermeni Mezalimi,\"\n Kardes Matbaasi, Ankara, 1970. \n\nT.C. Basbakanlik Osmanli Arsivi, Babiali, Istanbul:\n\na) Yildiz Esas Evraki\nb) Yildiz Perakende\nc) Irade Defterleri\nd) Cemaat-i Gayr-i Muslime Defterleri\ne) Meclisi Vukela Mazbatalari\nf) Dahiliye Nezareti, Kalem-i Mahsus Dosyalari\ng) Dahiliye Nezareti, Sifre Defterleri\nh) Babiali Evrak Odasi: Siyasi Kartonlar\ni) Babiali Evrak Odasi: Muhimme Kartonlari\n\nT.C. Disisleri Bakanligi, Hazine-i Evrak, Defterdarlik \n\na) Harb-i Umumi\nb) Muteferrik Kartonlar\n\nBritish Archives:\n\na) Parliamentary Papers (Hansard): Commons/Lords\nb) Foreign Office: Confidential Print: Various Collections\nc) Foreign Office: 424/239-253: Turkey: Correspondence - Annual Reports\nd) Foreign Office: 608\ne) Foreign Office: 371, Political Intelligence: General Correspondence\nf) Foreign Office: 800/240, Ryan Papers\ng) Foreign Office: 800/151, Curzon Papers\nh) Foreign Office: 839: The Eastern Conference: Lausanne. 53 files\n\nIndia Office Records and Library, Blackfriars Road, London.\n\na) L/Political and Security/10/851-855 (five boxes), \"Turkey: Treaty of\n Peace: 1918-1923\"\nb) L/P & S/10/1031, \"Near East: Turkey and Greece: Lausanne Conference,\n 1921-1923\"\nc) L/P & S/11/154\nd) L/P & S/11/1031\n\nFrench Archives\n\nArchives du ministere des Affaires entrangeres, Quai d'Orsay, Paris.\n\na) Documents Diplomatiques: Affaires Armeniens: 1895-1914 Collections\nb) Guerre: 1914-1918: Turquie: Legion d'Orient.\nc) Levant, 1918-1929: Armenie.\n\n\nOfficial Publications, Published Documents, Diplomatic Correspondence,\nAgreements, Minutes and Others\n\nA. Turkey (The Ottoman Empire and The Republic of Turkey)\n\nAkarli, E. (ed.); \"Belgelerle Tanzimat,\" (istanbul, 1978).\n(Gn. Kur., ATASE); \"Askeri Tarih Belgeleri Dergisi,\" V. XXXI (81),\n(Dec. 1982).\n----; \"Askeri Tarih Belgeleri Dergisi,\" V. XXXII (83),\n(Dec. 1983).\nHocaoglu, M. (ed.); \"Ittihad-i Anasir-i Osmaniye Heyeti Nizamnamesi,\"\n(Istanbul, 1912).\nMeray, S. L. (trans./ed.) \"Lozan Baris Konferansi: Tutanaklar-Belgeler,\"\n(Ankara, 1978), 2 vols.\nMeray, S. L./O. Olcay (ed.); \"Osmanli Imparatorlugu'nun Cokus Belgeleri;\nMondros Birakismasi, Sevr Andlasmasi, Ilgili Belgeler,\" (Ankara, 1977).\n(Osmanli Devleti, Dahiliye Nezareti); \"Aspirations et Agissements \nRevolutionnaires des Comites Armeniens avant et apres la proclamation\nde la Constitution Ottomane,\" (Istanbul, 1917).\n----; \"Ermeni Komitelerinin Amal ve Hareket-i Ihtilaliyesi: Ilan-i\nMesrutiyetten Evvel ve Sonra,\" (Istanbul, 1916).\n----; \"Idare-i Umumiye ve Vilayet Kanunu,\" (Istanbul, 1913).\n----; \"Muharrerat-i Umumiye Mecmuasi, V. I (Istanbul, 1914).\n----; \"Muharrerat-i Umumiye Mecmuasi, V. II (Istanbul, 1915).\n----; \"Muharrerat-i Umumiye Mecmuasi, V. III (Istanbul, 1916).\n----; \"Muharrerat-i Umumiye Mecmuasi, V. IV (Istanbul, 1917).\n(Osmanli Devleti, Hariciye Nezareti); \"Imtiyazat-i Ecnebiyye'nin\nLagvindan Dolayi Memurine Teblig Olunacak Talimatname,\" (Istanbul, 1915).\n(Osmanli Devleti, Harbiye Nezareti); \"Islam Ahalinin Ducar Olduklari\nMezalim Hakkinda Vesaike Mustenid Malumat,\" (Istanbul, 1919).\n----; (IV. Ordu) \"Aliye Divan-i Harbi Orfisinde Tedkik Olunan Mesele-yi\nSiyasiye Hakkinda Izahat,\" (Istanbul, 1916).\nTurkozu, H. K. (ed.); \"Osmanli ve Sovyet Belgeleriyle Ermeni Mezalimi,\"\n(Ankara, 1982).\n----; \"Turkiye Buyuk Millet Meclisi Gizli Celse Zabitlari,\" (Ankara, 1985),\n4 vols.\n\nRussia\n\nAdamof, E. E. (ed.); \"Sovyet Devlet Arsivi Belgeleriyle Anadolu'nun \nTaksimi Plani,\" (tran. H. Rahmi, ed. H. Mutlucag), (Istanbul, 1972).\n\nAltinay, A. R.; \"Iki Komite - Iki Kital,\" (Istanbul, 1919).\n----; \"Kafkas Yollarinda Hatiralar ve Tahassusler,\" (Istanbul, 1919).\n----; \"Turkiye'de Katolik Propagandasi,\" Turk tarihi Encumeni Mecmuasi,\nV. XIV/82-5 (Sept. 1924).\nAsaf Muammer; \"Harb ve Mesulleri,\" (Istanbul, 1918).\nAkboy, C.; \"Birinci Dunya Harbinde Turk Harbi, V. I: Osmanli Imparatorlugu'nun\nSiyasi ve Askeri Hazirliklari ve Harbe Girisi,\" (Gn. Kur., Ankara, 1970).\nAkgun, S.; \"General Harbord'un Anadolu Gezisi ve (Ermeni Meselesi'ne Dair)\nRaporu: Kurtulus Savasi Baslangicinda,\" (Istanbul, 1981).\nAkin, I.; \"Turk Devrim Tarihi,\" (Istanbul, 1983).\nAksin, S.; \"Jon Turkler ve Ittihad ve Terakki,\" (Istanbul, 1976).\nBasar, Z. (ed.);\"Ermenilerden Gorduklerimiz,\" (Ankara, 1974).\n----; \"Ermeniler Hakkinda Makaleler - Derlemeler,\" (Ankara, 1978).\nBelen, F.; \"Birinci Dunya Harbinde Turk Harbi,\" (Ankara, 1964).\nDeliorman, A.; \"Turklere Karsi Ermeni Komitecileri,\" (Istanbul, 1980).\nEge, N. N. (ed.); \"Prens Sabahaddin: Hayati ve Ilmi Mudafaalari,\"\n(Istanbul, 1977).\nErcikan, A.; \"Ermenilerin Bizans ve Osmanli Imparatorluklarindaki Rolleri,\"\n(Ankara, 1949).\nGurun, K.; 'Ermeni Sorunu yahut bir sorun nasil yaratilir?', \"Turk Tarihinde\nErmeniler Sempozyumu,\" (Izmir, 1983).\nHocaoglu, M.; \"Arsiv Vesikalariyla Tarihte Ermeni Mezalimi ve Ermeniler,\"\n(Istanbul, 1976).\nKaral, E. S.; \"Osmanli Tarihi,\" V. V (1983, 4th ed.); V. VI (1976, 2nd ed.);\nV. VII (1977, 2nd ed.); V. VIII (1983, 2nd ed.) Ankara.\nKurat, Y. T.; \"Osmanli Imparatorlugu'nun Paylasilmasi,\" (Ankara, 1976).\nOrel, S./S. Yuca; \"Ermenilerce Talat Pasa'ya Atfedilen Telgraflarin\nIcyuzu,\" (Ankara, 1983). [Also in English translation.]\nAhmad, F.; \"The Young Turks: The Committee of Union and Progress in\nTurkish Politics,\" (Oxford, 1969).\n\nSerdar Argic", "If you did not see with your 'eyes' freedom of religion you\nmust ne at least blind !\n2 weeks ago I read the interview of a Turkish journalist in a GReek magazine,\nhe said nothing about being forbiden to have Turkish press in Greece !\nGive as a brake. You call athnic cleansing of apopulation when it doubles?\nWhat do you mean by that ? Anyway in Greece, as in every country if you want\nsome property you 'inform' the goverment .\nWell well well. When Turkish in Area of Komotini elect 1 out of 3\nrepresenatives of this area to GReek parliament, if not freedom what is it?\n3 out of 3 ? Maybe there are only Turks living there ....\nI cannot deny that actions of fanatics from both sides were reported.\nA minority of Greek idiots indeed attack religious places, which\nwere protected by the Greek police. Photographs of Greek policemen \npreventing Turks from this non brain minority were all over Greek press.\n", "\n\nThe above explained propaganda which certainly has nothing to do with \nthe true facts is also today the main source of ASALA/SDPA/ARF terrorists'\nillegal activities that still try to make money out of the bodies of \nthe innocent victims of the Turkish genocide.\n\nThe criminal acts of the x-Soviet Armenian Government come directly\nunder the scope of the Convention on Genocide adopted by the General \nAssembly of the United Nations on December 8, 1948, containing the \nfollowing provisions:\n\nThe Contracting Parties, having considered the declaration made \nby the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution\n95 (1) dated December 11, 1946, that genocide is a crime under\ninternational law, contrary to the spirit and aims of the United\nNations and condemned by the civilized world;\n\nRecognizing that in all periods of history genocide has inflicted\ngreat losses on humanity; and\n\nBeing convinced that, in order to liberate mankind from such odious\nscourge, international cooperation is required;\n\nMembers agree as hereinafter provided:\n\nArticle 1. The Contracting Parties confirm that genocide, whether\ncommitted in time of peace or in time of war, is a crime under \ninternational law which they undertake to prevent and to punish.\n\nArticle 2. In the present Convention genocide means any of the\nfollowing acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or\nin part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as \nsuch:\n\nA) Killing member of the group;\nB) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;\nC) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life \n calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole \n or in part;\nD) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;\nE) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group;\n\nArticle 3. The following acts shall be punishable:\n\na) Genocide\nb) Conspiracy to commit genocide\nc) Direct and public incitement to commit genocide\nd) Attempt to commit genocide.\n\nArticle 4. Persons committing genocide or any of the other acts\nenumerated in Article 3 shall be punished, whether they are\nconstitutionally responsible rulers, public officials or private\nindividuals.\n\nHad the Convention on Genocide existed before the Armenian \nmassacres of the Turks and Kurds, it would probably have been \ndifficult for the x-Soviet Armenian Government and its responsibles\nto start murdering of civilian, defenseless, faithful Ottoman\ncitizens, children and women, (GENOCIDE AND ATTEMPT TO GENOCIDE),\nto make plans to exterminate, as they have done also to Urartus\nand Jews, faithful Ottoman citizens (CONSPIRACY TO COMMIT GENOCIDE), \nto incite Armenians to armed revolt against the legal authority\nand to commit Genocide, (DIRECT AND PUBLIC INCITEMENT TO COMMIT\nGENOCIDE).\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nLet me improve this one for you, then. For nearly one thousand years, \nthe Turkish and Kurdish people lived on their homeland - the last \none hundred under the oppressive Soviet and Armenian occupation. The \npersecutions culminated in 1914: The Armenian Government planned and \ncarried out a Genocide against its Muslim subjects. 2.5 million Turks \nand Kurds were murdered and the remainder driven out of their homeland. \nAfter one thousand years, Turkish and Kurdish lands were empty of Turks\nand Kurds. \n\nThe survivors found a safe heaven in Turkiye.\n\nToday, x-Soviet Armenian government rejects the right of Turks and \nKurds to return to their Muslim lands occupied by x-Soviet Armenia.\n\nToday, x-Soviet Armenia covers up the genocide perpetrated by its \npredecessors and is therefore an accessory to this crime against \nhumanity.\n\nx-Soviet Armenia must pay for its crime of genocide against the Muslims \nby admitting to the crime and making reparations to the Turks and Kurds.\n\nTurks and Kurds demand the right to return to their lands,\nto determine their own future as a nation in their own homeland.\n\n...On this occasion, we once again reiterate the unquestioned \njustice of the restitution of Turkish and Kurdish rights and...\n\n- We demand that the x-Soviet Armenian Government admit its \nresponsibility for the Turkish and Kurdish Genocide, render \nreparations to the Muslim people, and return the land to its \nrightful owners. The recognition of the Genocide has become an \nissue which cannot be delayed further, and it is imperative that \nartificial obstacles created for political manipulations be removed.\n\n- We believe the time has come to demand from the the United States \nthat it formally recognizes the Turkish and Kurdish Genocide, adopts \nthe principles of our demands and refuses to accede to Armenian pressures \nto the contrary.\n\n- As taxpayers of the United States, we express our vehement \nprotest to the present U.S. Government policy of continued \ncoddling, protection and unqualified assistance towards x-Soviet\nArmenia.\n\n- Our territorial demands are strictly aimed at x-Soviet Armenia's.\n\n\nSource: \"From Sardarapat to Sevres and Lausanne\" by Avetis Aharonian. The \nArmenian Review, Vol. 16, No. 3-63, Autumn, Sep. 1963, pp. 47-57.\n\np. 52 (second paragraph).\n\n\"Your three chiefs, Dro, Hamazasp and Kulkhandanian are the ringleaders\n of the bands which have destroyed Tartar villages and have staged \n massacres in Zangezour, Surmali, Etchmiadzin, and Zangibasar. This is\n intolerable. Look - and here he pointed to a file of official documents\n on the table - look at this, here in December are the reports of the last\n few months concerning ruined Tartar villages which my representative\n Wardrop has sent me. The official Tartar communique speaks of the\n destruction of 300 villages.\"\n\np. 54 (fifth paragraph).\n\n\"Yes, of course. I repeat, until this massacre of the Tartars is stopped\n and the three chiefs are not removed from your military leadership I\n hardly think we can supply you arms and ammunition.\"\n\n\"...it is the armed bands led by Dro, Hamazasp and Kulkhandanian who\n during the past months have raided and destroyed many Tartar villages in\n the regions of Surmali, Etchmiadzin, Zangezour, and Zangibasar. There are\n official charges of massacres.\"\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "Accounts of Anti-Armenian Human Right Violations in Azerbaijan #015\n Prelude to Current Events in Nagorno-Karabakh\n\n +-----------------------------------------------------------+\n | |\n | . . . They beat up the husband, dragged the wife outside, |\n | and stood her naked next to our burning things; her | \n | husband was lying at her feet on the ground. The crowd |\n | shouted, \"Look at the naked Armenian!\" They were going to |\n | throw the poor woman into the fire...Mamma wouldn't allow |\n | it but I went to the window and saw her standing there, |\n | and they took skewers that had been heated in the fire |\n | and stuck them into her body. |\n | |\n +-----------------------------------------------------------+\n\nDEPOSITIONS OF:\n\nZINAIDA POGHOSOVNA HAKOPIAN\n\n Born 1937\n Dispatcher\n Kavkazenergoremont Electric Booster Station\n\n Her daughters\n\nGAYANE (GAYA) VAZGENOVNA HAKOPIAN\n Born 1970\n Orderly\n Sumgait Municipal Hospital No. 1\n\nDIANA VAZGENOVNA HAKOPIAN\n Born 1978\n Second-Year Student\n Sumgait Secondary School No. 13\n\n Residents at Building 21/31, Apartment 47\n Microdistrict No. 3\n Sumgait [Azerbaijan]\n\n\n-Zinaida: On March 20 we arrived in Yerevan, and the next day they registered\nus at the train station and took us to the boarding house. The conditions were\nwonderful, thanks to our Armenians, who received us. But it's not relaxing all\nthe same. I don't know how everyone else feels about it, but for me it's \ntorture. We don't have a place to call our own. I had a two bedroom apartment \nin Sumgait, my children went to school and we lived well, in friendship. It's \npainful that in our times, in 1988, in the Soviet period, people can break \ninto our apartment and try to kill me and my children, in whom I've put all my\nefforts and my whole youth. Everything was going well for us: my older \ndaughter was studying at the Institute, the middle one was preparing to enter \nmedical school and was interning as an orderly, and my youngest had been sick \nfor a long time, but had returned to health. I have been though a lot in my \nlife: it's been seven years since I lost my husband, I raised my children by \nmyself. Lots of women have similar fates, but there's nothing to be done about\nit. But I can't control myself when I remember what happened in Sumgait on \nFebruary 27, 28, and 29, it was just a horror, it's indescribable.\n\nOn February 27 our relative, Ira, came to visit us. She's better friends with\nmy oldest daughter, and so right away she asked, \"Where's Vika?\" I say,\n\"Vika's off in Pirkuli on a trip for three days, she's supposed to come back\ntomorrow.\" My middle daughter, Gaya, had baked a cake and we sat there talking\nand laughing, drinking tea. Then Gaya and Diana went to walk Ira home.\n\nThey left and a few minutes went by; suddenly I hear noise. I raced out to\nthe balcony--our balcony is right across from the bus station, we live at the\ncorner of Mir and Druzhba Streets--I look and see that there are hoards of\npeople near the bus station and they're all shouting something. What they're\nshouting I can't understand. Our neighbor is standing on his balcony, too. I\nask, \"Nufar, what's happened?\" He says, \"I don't know, I can't figure it out\neither.\" I got scared--the kids had gone outside, and I wanted to run after\nthem, but then there was a knock at the door. I open the door and it's the\nkids. \"Mamma,\" says Gayane, \"you'll never believe what's going on out there! \nIt's awful!\" Ira says, \"Aunt Zina, they're shouting, 'Karabagh! Karabagh! \nKarabagh is ours!' We didn't know what was going on. They're threatening to \ndrive out the Armenians and slaughter them.\"\n\nI called my brother, and his wife answered the phone. I said, \"Aunt Tamara, \ndon't worry, Ira is staying here with us, and we'll see her home later.\" I \ncouldn't shut my eyes all night long, even until morning. I was worried about\nVika. My God, what was going on, what had happened?!\n\n-Gayane: That day, on the 27th, we stood on the balcony and observed what was \nhappening, although Mamma wouldn't allow us to watch all of it. There weren't \n50 yards between our building and the bus station. We could see and hear \neverything perfectly. They were stopping buses, dragging people out, leading \nall the passengers out, looking for Armenians. If they found an Armenian on \nthe bus, then it started . . .I don't know what to call it . . .\n\n-Zinaida: It's called slaughter.\n\n-Gayane: The mob would descend on people and beat them. I don't know if they \nwere killing them or not, but when they left them, they lay still, not moving,\nas though nothing was left of them. One person was lying there and they \nstarted dragging him. The police were standing right there, to the side, not \ndoing anything, they didn't take any steps to calm that mob.\n\nIt was awful to stand there and watch it all from the balcony. And you \ncouldn't go anywhere, somehow . . . you wanted to be able to see everything\nso as to tell of it later. We wanted to leave Sumgait that day. What kept us\nwas the idea that we live in the Soviet Union, and that something would be\ndone about it. Where in the world was our government?!\n\n-Zinaida: We couldn't leave town, of course, because our older daughter wasn't\nhome. And at the same time I was terrified for Gaya and Diana. On Sunday \nmorning when I went to see Ira home, our neighbor said, \"Zin', you know they \nwent into Valodya's house and smashed everything he had. They murdered his \nfather and two sons.\" Valodya is our neighbor, he's an Armenian, he lives on \nthe first floor. I think, my God, what is happening?! And in broad daylight!\n\nI saw Ira home and when on the way back I came across a mob shouting \"Slay the\nArmenians! Karabagh is ours!\" This was at 12 o'clock in the afternoon. On the \nway I stopped into a bread store and the saleswoman says, \"They beat our store\nmanager, they thought he was an Armenian and they beat him, but he was an \nAzerbaijani.\" And I asked, \"Did they kill him?\" She says, \"No, he's in serious\ncondition.\" I left there and started to walk home on that same street, but the\nmob started moving in my direction. I turned off the street and went down the \nlittle way that goes toward the Sputnik store. There I met another crowd, but \nthese weren't bandits, these were our people from Sumgait. I was so frightened\nthat I walked without knowing where was going, I couldn't feel my legs or the \nground under my feet. I was walking and there was a boy standing before my \neyes. This was on the 27th, around evening time. He ran under our balcony, and\nthe mob surged toward him shouting, \"He's an Armenian, get him!\" He wore a \nblack coat. They grabbed him, that boy, near the bus stop, I saw it. They \ngrabbed him by the legs and struck his head on the asphalt.\n\nI made it home but I just couldn't calm down. My oldest daughter was in my \nthoughts. I was thinking, my daughter's coming home now, they'll stop her bus \nand she'll be gone. There's no police, no protection, nothing. It's like they \nhad all died, there's no one, nothing, no authorities whatsoever. I can't even\nfind the words for it! I look and see an Ikarus arriving. Before going to the \nbus station they stop near our place, across from the Kosmos movie theater. So\nthis Ikarus stops there and the gang is yelling, the Azerbaijanis are running\ntoward it yelling, \"Armenians out!\" And I see them take the Armenians and beat\nthem, killing them. I can't watch it any more. It was a nightmare. I just \ncouldn't watch it. But Gaya was standing there watching it, and I scolded her.\nShe says, \"Mamma, I have to see it, I have to know what's happening, I have to\nsee it with my own eyes so I can tell our people of it later. So our children \nwill know.\"\n\nGayane: We saw a great deal on the 27th. They caught no less than 20 people\nbefore my eyes. I can't say for sure if they killed them or not . . .\n\n-Zinaida: There were too many people there, the mob was too big. You couldn't \nmake anything out. But I saw that boy in the black coat with my own eyes. He\nwas 18 or 19 years old.\n\n-Gayane: I think he was older, probably, about 22. A tall fellow, a big guy, \nin a coat. He was walking quickly, but when they shouted that he was an\nArmenian, he tore off running. And the mob went after him. They caught him \nright under our balcony. I don't know. I don't think there could have been \nmuch left of him after that. You can imagine what happens when a crowd attacks\none person. It was a mob, big, angry, and featureless. You know, there was a \nsimilarity in the way they were dressed, mostly they were wearing long black \ncoats. You couldn't even tell them apart, they were all wearing black and they\nall looked alike.\n\n-Zinaida: When they picked up that boy and struck him against the asphalt and \nhe cried \"Mamma!\" I ran into the room. I couldn't watch any longer. An awful \nlot was going on right then, in various places, it wasn't only that boy, \nseveral people were being beaten up. You couldn't see all of it at once, but \nwhen that boy cried \"Mamma!\" I immediately started watching only him.\n\n-Gayane: On that first day it went on from about six in the morning until\ntwelve at night. At midnight they dispersed and the police took their place.\nThey were scattered about in all districts. But how can you explain the fact\nthat by morning, when it had already started getting light, around seven\no'clock, our police were gone? The police disappeared and yielded their\npositions to the bandits. In the morning they started gathering at our inter-\nsection again, at the bus station and at the entrance to downtown. From\nmorning on all the roads and mass transit stops were covered, and by nine\no'clock you couldn't even see the ground. There were thousands of people in\nthe crowd. Again they began stopping vehicles and checking for Armenians.\n\n-Zinaida: They had signals. I realized that when I noticed that they made a \ncross with their arms, they crossed their arms over their heads. The cross,\nevidently, meant that the vehicle had Armenians in it. They let the\nAzerbaijani cars through, and they stopped the Armenian ones and started\ntheir pogrom.\n\n-Gayane: They stopped a white Zhiguli and asked the driver what his \nnationality was. He got out and said they were from Baku. \"But what is your\nnationality?\" He says Armenian. They immediately start shouting, \"Ermeni,\nErmeni!\" And he says, \"What's going on? I'm coming from Baku. I don't live\nin Sumgait.\" \"Doesn't matter, who cares if you're from Baku or Sumgait.\"\nAnyway the crowd pounced on him and started beating him, and they dragged a \nwoman--his wife, probably--out of the car. At this point the police came and \ntook the two and led them away. Then the mob started smashing the car, and \nthen burned it. The flames blazed . . . it was a horrible fire! Then everyone \nran away, they thought the car was going to explode. About 20 minutes later \nanother car comes along, a green Moskvich. They ran up shouting \"Ermeni! \nErmeni!\" But this time they didn't pull the people out of the car, they didn't\nbeat them. Maybe they burned them along with the car, because no one emerged \nfrom the flames. The neighbor boy Vakhit was standing on the balcony too, \nacquaintances of his walked by below, and he asked them and they said, \"Yes, \nthey burned them along with the car.\" About two hours later a whole wedding \nprocession came by, and there was a doll on the first car. We thought they \nwere Armenians, but the cars started to honk loudly. They were Azerbaijanis, \nand they were immediately allowed through.\n\n-Zinaida: The driver waved his hand as if to say 'get out of the way.' The\nwhole crowd parted and the procession passed through freely.\n\n-Gayane: By the way, at the marriage hall, which is right in the courtyard\nof our building, there was a wedding that day. The Azerbaijanis were cele-\nbrating and dancing. On the streets there was grief and death, people were\nbeing killed, and people were celebrating the whole time.\n\n-Zinaida: Before the apartment itself was attacked I asked Gaya to call and \nfind out when the tourist bus was supposed to arrive. She went to her \ngirlfriend's in the building, she lives in the first entryway, on the third \nfloor. Gaya came back and said, \"Mamma, the bus is supposed to come around\neight, after eight.\" You can imagine what I was feeling, how hard it was:\nVika knew nothing about what was happening and was coming to meet her death. \nThen I heard shouting. I raced to the window and see that the belongings of \nour neighbors from the second entryway are being thrown outdoors. They were \nthrashing about with the pillows and the feathers were lying like snow. I \nstarted to cry. I am walking around the room, crying, wailing: Vika's not \nhere, what will come of her . . . Gaya, of course, was consoling me: \"Mamma, \nnothing will happen to her, don't worry, calm down, she's in good company, \nthey'll look out for her.\"\n\nDiana: I saw the green car burn. The car was burning when we went out onto the\nbalcony. Gaya pushed me away, telling me to get off the balcony. I left. Then \nthey came up to the balcony and asked if there were any Armenians here.\n\n-Zinaida: You're right, I forgot about that, that was on the 27th.\n\nDiana: There's a small, grassy area in front of our balcony; there are trees\nplanted there. The mob asked if there were any Armenians in the building.\nAll the neighbors said, no, there are no Armenians here. There weren't a lot\nof Armenians in our building, but there weren't just a few Armenian families, \neither.\n\n-Gayane: They fell upon the apartments on the 28th. There were terribly many \nof them. Our courtyard is huge, and it was completely filled with them.\n\n-Zinaida: Katusev had made an appearance on television earlier. He said that \ntwo people, Azerbaijanis, had been killed in Karabagh. And when he said that \n. . . you know how bees sound, have you heard how they buzz? It was like the \nbuzzing of millions of bees . . . and with this buzzing they flew into our \ncourtyard, howling and shouting. I don't know how to describe it. By this \npoint we were afraid to watch from the balcony, but when I looked out of the \nbedroom window--the Znaniye Bookstore is down there, and Armenians live on the \nsecond and fourth floors--I saw their things being thrown out the windows. I \nrealized that they would be upon us any minute. I shouted to Gayane, \"Gaya, \nhide the gold.\" That's honestly what I told my child. I grabbed Diana. I \ndidn't know what to do! Vika still wasn't home, and it was already getting \ndark. I was afraid to look at the time because I was already horrified as it \nwas.\n\n-Gayane: Just in case, we changed the television channel from the Moscow \nstation to the Azerbaijani one.\n\n-Zinaida: And turned it up loud.\n\n-Gayane: We never listened to Azerbaijani music. It just didn't do much for \nus. In all those years we almost never listened to it. But sometimes we would\nwatch some entertainment show or film on Azerbaijani television. And that was \nit. And here we had it turned up full blast. So they would think we were \nAzerbaijanis.\n\n-Zinaida: Well you can imagine, they're slaughtering Armenians, robbing them, \nand we're listening to this concert music from Baku. Our Azerbaijani neighbors\nsuggested we do it, they knocked on the door and told Gaya to turn on \nAzerbaijani music. But we already had it on anyway. Turn on the lights, they \ntold us, so they will think you're not Armenians. They're saying the Armenians\nare afraid to turn on their lights, they're hiding.\n\n-Gayane: Apparently there was some kind of arrangement, because we noticed \nthat the lights were off only in Armenian apartments, that is, the \nAzerbaijanis were warned, and every last one of them had their lights on.\nWhen we turned the lights off two of our neighbors came immediately, and\nlater, another one. \"Turn on the lights,\" they told us, \"please. Nothing will\nhappen. Be calm. Nothing will happen.\"\n\n-Zinaida: \"We won't allow them to come into your apartment.\"\n\n-Gayane: We believed those people. We had never done anything bad to them.\n\n -Zinaida: After the whole nightmare, about March 15, before we left for\nArmenia, when I was coming into the building they were all crying. The\nAzerbaijanis were crying, saying, \"Can it be there is no God? How could\nthey raise their hands against your family? You never did anyone any harm,\nyou never refused anyone anything, not in hard times, or in time of fortune,\nor in time of mourning. How could they give you away? How could they sell you \ndown the river?\" They really had given us away. Some of them protected us, but\nothers gave us away. They sold us down the river.\n\n-Gayane: I was wearing slacks that day, and when it all began I became \ncautious for some reason and I changed my clothes. Azerbaijani women don't \nwear pants. Young Armenian and Russian girls in Sumgait wore pants, but the \nAzerbaijanis found that very strange. And I thought I better put on a skirt, \notherwise they won't believe me if I told them we were Azerbaijanis. There was\nnothing else we could do. No other way out. I was forced to turn myself into \nGod knows who. I let my hair down, tousled it, and threw a scarf over my head.\n\n-Zinaida: And she told me, \"Mamma, you hide. Take Diana and go into the other \nroom. You two look more like Armenians. They'll figure out that we're \nArmenians right away.\" But how could I go away and leave her there?!\n\n-Gayane: I went out onto the balcony. It worked out better that way. We were \nthe only Armenian family in the fourth entryway. This gave us hope: we were \nthe only ones, the neighbors wouldn't let them in. They, the Azerbaijanis, \nwould fear for themselves and for their children. I looked and saw someone \ncrawling up on the balcony from below, it was easy to get up onto our balcony.\nWhen we would lose the keys the neighbors would let up into their places and \nwe would crawl across onto our balcony and get in that way. So I turned around\nand saw a guy with a knife on our balcony. He looks at me and shouts, \"What \nnationality are you here?\"\n\n-Zinaida: At the same time they were knocking on the door.\n\n-Gayane: \"What nationality are you?\" he's shouting. Well at first I was\nfrightened, but then I got control of myself and answered in perfect \nAzerbaijani, \"You should be ashamed of yourself, asking a question like that.\nCan't you see I'm an Azerbaijani? If I were an Armenian would I come out to \nmeet you face to face and look you in the eyes?\" He looks at me and tells the\npeople with him, \"Yes, Azerbaijanis live here.\" From below they tell him,\n\"Check it out, it can't be, they have to be Armenians.\" And he asks me again,\n\"What nationality are you?\" I say, \"Can't you see?\" I started fuming. I could\nnot say anything else. \"You're blind, that's for sure! You can yell all you\nwant, but that won't make us Armenians.\" I hear them breaking down our\ndoor, and Mamma went toward the door. I say, \"I don't have time to deal\nwith you, they're breaking down our door.\" 1 go to the door and ask, \"Who is\nit?\" They answer, \"Open up!\" I say, \"Wait, why are you breaking the door?\nWhat's going on? I'm opening up.\" We never locked the lower lock, it was\nbroken, but now they had locked it out of fear, and I couldn't get it open. I\nsay wait, I'm looking for the key. I opened the door--it was almost broken\ndown already. I opened the door and they burst in. I say, \"What's going on?\nWhy are you breaking down our door?\"\n\n-Zinaida: Then they started climbing in from the balcony. They're shouting, \n\"Why don't you open the door?\" And I say, \"Well you've already come in the \nbalcony.\" Then Diana sees their knives, runs into the bathroom, and closes the\ndoor. Gaya cries out, \"Mamma, Diana ran into the bathroom!\" I ran to the door \nand forgot that we were pretending to be Azerbaijanis, and said in Armenian: \n\"Diana, open the door!\" Gaya tried to calm them down, and I'm shouting with\ntears in my eyes for Diana to open the door.\n\n-Diana I was sitting on the couch with my doll, Little Red Riding Hood. That \nguy climbed in from the balcony with a big knife with a yellow handle. They \nput it up to Mamma's stomach. I ran to the bathroom, opened the door, and \nslammed it behind me. I was frightened, and started to cry. I shouted, \"Mamma,\nthey want to kill you!\" And then . . . then they started shouting, \"Give us \nyour passports.\" And Gaya says, \"What do you need passports for, we're \nAzerbaijanis.\"\n\n-Gayane: I tried to convince them that we were Azerbaijanis, I was trying\neverything I could, I could get on my knees and plead. I could humble myself, \nbecause at that moment I was worried about other lives than just my own. To be\nhonest I didn't care about anything else, as long as my little sister would \nsurvive, her life and health had cost us so dearly! I tell them, \"What, don't \nyou understand anything?\" They started shouting, they were tremendously \nexcited, shouting with terribly loud voices, saying that in Stepanakert their \ngirls were being killed, raped, and tossed around with pitchforks. Why \nshouldn't they do the same to us? I said, \"Who's doing all that? Who is doing \nit? Some Armenians! What does that have to do with us? Give me the knife, I'll\ncut my own face.\" \"Now you calm down,\" they tell me.\n\nZinaida: I told them, \"Why didn't you deal with them there! There, in \nKarabakh? Nothing has happened here, no one has been fighting here, not we \nwith the Armenians, nor they with us. Why didn't you give it right back to\nthem there? What've we got to do with this?\" I got confused. I had been\nsaying that we were Azerbaijanis, but suddenly I started speaking as though\nI were an Armenian, but they didn't notice. One of them was next to me,\nwith a knife at my breast. And he says to the others, \"What pretty girls.\" He\nmeant Gaya and my 10-year-old Diana. I was terrified. Gaya started assuring \nthem that we were Azerbaijanis. One guy stood in the doorway and gave us bad \nlooks.\n\n-Gayane: He demanded the passports. I said, \"Young man, I don't have my \npassport here.\" He says, \"Let's have the passport, we won't believe you\nwithout your passport.\" And one of them started hurriedly searching for\ndocuments. They turned the wardrobe in the other room upside down, took the \npicture off the wall, and started pulling the clothes off their hooks, yelling\nand shouting, \"Passport! Passport!\" They all started yelling, there was so \nmuch noise in the apartment. They were all shouting. My hair stood on end. \nSuddenly I said, \"Listen, my Papa died, 40 days haven't passed yet, we have a \nMuslim household, we're in mourning, you should be ashamed of yourselves, \nyou've disgraced your honor.\" And then Mamma started to cry.\n\n-Zinaida: I started crying: \"My husband died, 40 days haven't yet passed,\naren't you ashamed of yourselves!\" In fact my husband had died seven years\nearlier, in 1981. \"We're in mourning, and you burst in here demanding docu-\nments. The documents are at the housing office, I'm filing for my pension.\"\nWell it seemed like they believed us. Then one guy said, \"They're Lezgins.\nCan't you see, there are no men here, only women. Leave.\" Another fellow in\nthe group agreed with him, he also said that we were Lezgins. But a third\nsaid, \"No, they're Armenians.\" Well the other two convinced him, I don t know \nhow, and all the rest of them listened to them too. There were about 50 of \nthem, if not more, all in our three-room apartment, even the entryway was \nfilled. They started leaving. Yes, we're Lezgins, we're Lezgins.\" They started\nleaving, and one of them took our tape recorder with him. And the one who had \nfirst called us Lezgins says, \"Leave that, what are you doing?\" They seemed to\nobey that guy.\n\n-Gayane: He was tall, wearing baggy jeans and a coat.\n\n-Zinaida: With a little moustache, I think.\n\n-Gayane: No, he didn't have a moustache, he was tall with brown hair, he \nwasn't a bad-looking sort. He didn't have anything in his hands.\n\n-Zinaida: He stood at the threshold.\n\n-Gayane: Yes, he didn't look like a bad guy, and you know, his face seemed \nfamiliar to me. I had seen him somewhere. And more than once. But I can't \nremember where. When he came in I was stupefied, I had a premonition that he \nwouldn't be able to remain indifferent. When he said that we were Lezgins and \nthat they should leave, such gladness started to glow inside of me. Hope. They\ncontinued to argue on their way out. Some said, \"They're Armenians all the \nsame.\" And that fellow answered, \"even if they are Armenians, it's shameful,\nthe father died, they're mourning, there's nothing but women in the house, \nthere's no men. We should stay out of the apartment.\" \"What do you mean, stay \nout? We can go in there!\" And he said, \"No, we should stay out, they're \nLezgins, we're leaving here.\" The three of them protected us.\n\n -Zinaida: No, the two of them. The one in the short coat and the one in the\ngrey suit, who stood at the threshold, about 19 or 20 years old. Well they\nwere all young really. The two of them defended us.\n\n-Diana: Three, three!\n\n-Zinaida: Do you remember the third one, Diana?\n\n-Diana: Yes, he was wearing dark clothes.\n\n-Gayane: The third one was the one who came back. He wore a long brown coat.\n\n-Diana: He wore a long, darkish brown coat, and his hair was dark too. When \nthey left, they told him downstairs that those women were Armenians, and ran \nback and said that they were going to kill us.\n\n-Zinaida: They had all left, and we had started to calm down a little, and I\nclosed the door. And then there is a knock. I told Gaya, \"Take Diana and go\ninto the other room.\" My daughters went into the dining room, and I opened the\ndoor. There was a guy there who said, \"Run, hide! They're coming to kill you \nnow!\" We ran up to the third floor. We had some good neighbors up there,\nAzerbaijanis. I sent the kids and stood there alone, not knowing what to do. \nI was so far gone . . . Out of a whole room I couldn't even think of anything \nto take. I even forgot to take my work documents; at the time I had been \npreparing a report to send to Baku, and the documents were at home. I couldn't\nsee anything . . . I could only see Vika, my older daughter. I sent Gaya and \nDiana upstairs, and stood there asking that fellow, \"Should I close the door \nand leave everything like this?\" He says, \"What do you mean, door? Get out of \nhere, they're coming to kill you! What are you standing there for?\" And I ran \nafter the children.\n\n-Gayane: We barely had time to get up to the third floor when they burst into \nour apartment and started shouting, \"Where are the Armenians?\" We were already\nat the neighbors'. They had an infant at the time, and the neighbor said, \n\"Don't you worry, I'm not letting anyone in this apartment no matter what.\"\n\n-Zinaida: On the third floor there I started asking the folks, our neighbors,\nto go meet Vika. The bus was due to arrive at eight o'clock. I dissolved in\ntears, Gaya was soothing me, Diana was next to us, she was crying too, and I'm\nalready thinking that I've lost my older daughter, but deep in my heart I \nstill believe she's alive . . . And my tears choked me. I was going out of my\nmind. But no one could leave the building, the courtyard was packed with\npeople, swarming with them. From the balcony the neighbor in whose apartment \nwe were hiding asked the bandits, \"Where are those Armenians, the ones who \nwere at home? Where did they make off to?\" They told him they didn't know. \nThey asked him where he lived. He answered, \"Can't you see, on the third \nfloor.\" He asked them specially to divert attention from his own apartment. We\nheard them taking free reign of our apartment, and they threw our color \ntelevision off the balcony and it exploded.\n\n-Gayane: Mamma was crying the whole time. She fell into a faint and we brought\nher around and held her back, because the whole time she kept making for the \ndoor to go outside, alternately raving and sobbing, shouting, and calling \nVika. She didn't notice us, probably because we were next to her. Her thoughts\nwere only on Vika. The neighbors who were hiding us were calming her too, \noffering tea.\n\n-Zinaida: We are very grateful to them. Thanks to them my children and I are\nalive, well, and unharmed. When they were throwing our belongings out and \nburning them--the beds, the pillows, and the chairs--our neighbor came to us \nand said, \"How lucky you are that it's not you standing there naked, but some \nother woman instead. You're from our part of the building you lost your \nhusband, you have children, thank God you're not in her position, we wouldn't \nhave been able to take it. I don't know what I would do.\" He of course \nwouldn't have done anything, he was just trying to calm us down. In the yard \nthey were torturing our neighbors, fellow Armenians They lived on the fifth \nfloor, in the third entryway. A married couple, Vanya and Nina, and their \nthree children. Their last name is V. They hid their two daughters, and stayed\nwith their son to defend themselves, they even got boiling water ready, and an\naxe, and held them off for a long time, but the . . . They beat up the \nhusband, dragged the wife outside, and stood her naked next to our burning \nthings; her husband was lying at her feet on the ground. The crowd shouted, \n\"Look at the naked Armenian!\" They were going to throw the poor woman into the\nfire. The neighbors came out, an Azerbaijani woman threw her a scarf, and she \ncovered herself with it, and the neighbors led her off to their apartment. \nAll the neighbors saw and heard it . . .\n\n-Gayane: Mamma wouldn't allow it but I went to the window and saw her standing\nthere, and they took skewers that had been heated in the fire and stuck them \ninto her body. Our neighbor, who lived in the same entryway as Nina--she \nlives with us in the same boarding house now--saw what they had done, Nina \nshowed her, from her knees up, almost up to her neck, her whole body was \ncovered, riddled, with wounds.\n\n-Zinaida: In the morning, during the night of the 29th, rather, after one\no'clock, two buses approached the station. I wanted to run out. By then I\ndidn't care any more if I lived or died, but Gayane wouldn't let me go, and\nthe neighbors said that I would bring disaster to them and they would be\nslain along with their children. Gaya was crying and said that I forgot about\nthem, my other children, but I could only think of Vika. I imagined her torn\nto pieces, I'm a mother, and they're just children, they don't understand I\nwould have jumped off the balcony and run to the soldiers for help. I was\ngoing to do it but Gayane wouldn't let me: \"Mamma, please! Mamma, I beg of \nyou!\" The neighbors were sleeping and Gayane woke them with her cries. So we \nheld on that way till morning.\n\nOn the morning of the 29th I told our neighbor I was going to go downstairs to\nour apartment, maybe Vika was lying there, murdered. He told me he would go \nhimself. He was gone for about five minutes, but it seemed like an eternity to\nme. He returned and said there was no one there, nothing. I went down too, \nstole down like a mouse, and slipped in everything was thrown all about. I \ndidn't go to the soldiers because the armored personnel carriers were far \naway, farther than the bus station. I began looking for the briefcase with my \nwork in it. I was miserable because of my daughter, and at the same time \nbecause of my work. My documents were there, my travel papers--I worked in the\ntransport division -- and my trip sheets.\n\n-Gayane: Mamma is a very responsible person, she was always ready to work \naround the clock to do her job.\n\n-Zinaida: I look around and I can't find the briefcase. I didn't care about \nthe fact that everything had been stolen out of all three of my rooms, that\neverything was smashed, and the furniture was broken, I worried about that\nlater, but at first I was concerned about the lost documents. I went into the\nkitchen. My daughter had hidden some valuables in the gas stove: my ring and \nmy earrings. It was all there. Five minutes passed and Gayane ran in and said,\n\"Mamma, hurry.\" And Diana came downstairs too. Gayane found her coat among \nthe debris, and Diana found her track shoes, her coat, and some of her \ndresses.\n\n-Diana: Immediately after we got back up to the neighbors they started \nthrowing things around in the apartment under us. They threw a television onto\nthe asphalt, it exploded so violently it sounded like a thunderclap. Then, \nwhen Vika wasn't there, I wouldn't eat, and they forced me, but I couldn't \neat. Because I loved Vika terribly and she and I had always gone to the movies\nand gone for walks in the park. When we went into our apartment the next day \nand everything was broken, right away I started looking for my dolls and my \nbooks, but I didn't see anything. When we went back upstairs I managed to take\ntwo cups from my tea service, and Gaya took Vika's suit and one of her own \ndresses. My Italian boots were gone, my brown coat, it was beautiful, there \nwasn't a one of my beautiful dolls, and my giant lion was gone too, the one \nthat had been on top of the television. He was very large and very handsome. \nI had two satchels, one for first grade and the other for second grade, one \nwas yellow-green with a boy and a girl on it, they're playing a drum and a \nviolin, and there is a dog sitting there closing its ears, and on the other \none were the letters A, B, C, D, E and the numbers 4+5, two girls and a boy \nwith their mouths open like they are singing. They were beautiful satchels. \nThey were gone too. I had many books, I collected them, they were in the \nbedside tables. And a boy had given me a little apron and a headband for my \nbirthday, they weren't around either. And I had some big books, fat ones, and \nthey disappeared, only one was left, The Malachite Box. The Adventures of \nKarlson, Pippi Longstockings, and Fairy Tales of the World were left. All the \nother books were gone.\n\n-Zinaida: I continued searching for my briefcase, and then my supervisor\narrived. He had waited for me until nine o'clock, but I didn't appear, and he\nthought something must have happened, so he came. He's a Russian, Aleksei \nSemyonovich Lomakin. Alik Aliyev, the mechanic, came with him. When they saw \nmy wrecked apartment they were just petrified, they could not say a thing. \nWhen I saw them I started crying. My Azerbaijani neighbors came in. Some of \nthem were crying, others were helping me pick up. I go on looking for my \ndocuments and at the same time put things into the wardrobe. Now that I \nremember it it's both funny and painful: How could I have thought that I had \nreturned to my apartment and that everything had gone back to normal? \nIncidentally, later, when I went back to the apartment again those things were\ngone too. And the door was gone. After my supervisor left, in the afternoon, \nthe neighbor said that we should leave, find another refuge. \"I'm afraid,\" he \nsaid, \"that someone saw you come to my apartment, and that they could kill you\nand us too. My God, where could I go it was daytime and those . . . I don't \neven know what to call them, the bandits, those marauders, those jackals, I \ndon't know what to call them, I can't find the words, they were everywhere. \nWhere should I go with two girls? When I opened the door I had tears in my \neyes, and I was terrified . . . And he said, \"Go to Alik's, he's an\nAzerbaijani, too.\" and I say, \"You should have said that earlier, when my \nsupervisor was here with the car, he could have taken us with him.\" Everyone \nfeared for their own lives. What could I do? I went out into the entryway and \nstood. And he says, \"any other time I would keep you here a year, or two. But \nright now, I'm sorry . . . \" Then another door opened, also on the third \nfloor. I ask the neighbor, \"Tayara, can we hide at your place?\" She's an \nAzerbaijani too. She says, \"What kind of question is that? Come in!\" She hid \nus. There were many people in the courtyard, and Gaya and I hid in the \nwardrobe, and they put Diana under a mattress, leaving a small opening so the \nchild could breathe. Tayara said that when the bandits left she would let us \nout, and when they came back she would hide us again.\n\nWe sat in the wardrobe for about a half hour. Gaya became ill, and I allowed \nher to get out. My legs fell asleep and felt like cannons. We hadn't eaten or \ndrunk anything for so long, since the 27th, when we saw that horror--and all \nof it just snapped in me. Tayara's husband went outside, even though I begged \nhim to stay, saying there should be a man in the house. He said that he'd be \nin the courtyard, and if anything happened his wife would signal him. She put \nher passport and all of their documents on the table so if they suddenly came \nin she could show them that they were an Azerbaijani family. My girls went to \nthe window--and what was going on out there! I feared for my children, that \nsomeone would recognize them from the street. Gaya let her hair down and put \non a scarf so she would resemble an Azerbaijani, but directly across there was\na 9-story building, their windows were right across from us, and I shouted \nthat someone would see her and give us away on the spot. But she kept on \nlooking.\n\n-Diana: I watched too.\n\n-Zinaida: Downstairs the bandits were fighting with the soldiers. The soldiers\ndidn't shoot, they didn't have orders to. I saw them throwing rocks at\nthe soldiers, they were young boys, 18- and 19-year olds, and they defended\nthemselves . . . I'm a mother after all, and they were no different from my\nchildren. When one of the soldiers fell and his head started bleeding I had to\nstop looking, l couldn't watch anymore . . . I imagined my children in their\nshoes . . .\n\n-Gayane: The troops had assumed their defense that morning and had cordoned \noff the buildings, and some of the soldiers surrounded the bus station, Block \n36, and our Microdistrict 3. But they only cordoned them off from the outside.\nThe mob fell upon the soldiers, who started to protect themselves, and the mob\nsurged into the courtyard with the soldiers after it. They caught several \nAzerbaijanis and started beating them with their clubs. One fell down and they\ncracked open another's head . . .\n\n-Zinaida: They show Lebanon on television, and the war in Afghanistan--that's just\nwhat it was like. Like in America, how they attack demonstrations with shields\nand clubs--that's just how it was in our courtyard.\n\n-Gayane: Don't compare it with America, those were peaceful demonstrations, \nbut these?!\n\n-Zinaida: But how could it happen here and not off somewhere in America! They \nattacked the soldiers, hurled stones at them . . . Then I thought, where's the\ntear gas that the Americans use to disperse demonstrators? If they had used \ngas on those jackals they all would have scattered.\n\n-Gayane: They would not have scattered. The soldiers had been there since \nmorning, they didn't bring in fresh troops. They hadn't eaten, they were fine \nstanding there for about three hours, but then they got tired. They weren't \neven allowed to sit down . . . At noon they, the soldiers, attacked them, and \nthen the tables were turned. The mob went after the soldiers, the guys were \nbunched into a group in the center street and covered themselves with their \nshields, and the Azerbaijanis surrounded them and threw paving stones at them.\nAnd those guys sat there covering themselves with their shields. And meanwhile\ntanks with machine guns were cruising the streets . . . They always say, \"Our \nchildren have never seen war.\" I never even dreamed about it, there was no \nneed to. But then I thought about those people who had lived through a war. It\nwas truly horrible . . . The guys were tired, exhausted, some had had their \nclubs taken away, others, their shields, they had been beaten, they were \ncovered in blood . . . so many died! They beat the soldiers with their own \nclubs and shields. And those guys stood there and couldn't defend themselves, \nthey couldn't open fire. They couldn't even defend themselves, let alone us. \nIt's comical . . .\n\n-Zinaida: What are you saying? How can it be funny?\n\n-Gayane: No, I didn't mean that: How could something like that happen during \nour Soviet period? It's painfully embarrassing! And they burned the armored \npersonnel carriers, too. Someone shouted, \"Get away, it's going to blow!\" \nEveryone scattered away, and the armored personnel carrier exploded. The \nsoldiers lost their senses. And when they drove the personnel carrier and the \nbus at the mob out of rage and fury, they drove right up on the sidewalk.\n\n-Zinaida: The bus that had brought the troops. Only the driver was in it. The \nbus ran over three people straight off, I saw it. And two armored personnel \ncarriers ran over four more. All in one or two minutes. The bus ran over \nthree, one of the carriers ran over two, and the second, two more. Right on \nour street there's a dry cleaners and appliance and watch repair places; one \nof the armored personnel carriers went that way, and they say it ran over\nseveral over there, too. But they ran over seven before our eyes. Then the bus\nploughed into a book kiosk.\n\n-Gayane: No, that was a flower place. It was a new booth. He drove straight \ninto it.\n\n-Zinaida: The driver jumped out and they dragged the vehicle out to the\nmiddle of the road and set it on fire.\n\n-Gayane: And I also saw the troops put a bunch of Azerbaijanis in a bus and \ntake them in a convoy to Baku. There were many arrests.\n\n-Zinaida: Our neighbor, the one who hid us, couldn't take it, and he told his \nwife that we should leave. They were running around in the courtyard looking \nfor the Armenians. They knew that they were hiding with Azerbaijanis, and they\nwere saying that they were going to check the Azerbaijani families. Poor \nTayara got scared too, and started to cry; I pleaded with her, I said that I \nwould remember forever how she saved my children and me, but where could we \ngo?\n\n-Gayane: She didn't make us leave, she said that she would do anything, but \nshe was afraid.\n\n-Zinaida: I told Tayara that we would just stay a little longer and that at\nnight we would return to our apartment. Then her husband came back and said \nthat a curfew had been imposed. He says, \"Zina, you owe us a drink. Gorbachev \nannounced a curfew.\" And Bagirov [First Secretary of the Communist Party of \nAzerbaijan SSR] was on television, he said that two people had been killed in \nKarabagh, but nothing was wrong, automobile windows had been broken, but there\nhadn't been any killings. He kept making statements, and there were \nAzerbaijani songs and dances. Tayara turned the TV all the way up. When we \nlearned of the curfew we calmed down, but then a crowd ran into the courtyard \nagain, a large one. Our neighbor told them that there had been only one \nArmenian family here, but they had already killed them all, there was no one \nleft. We hid in the wardrobe again. and they stuck Diana back under the bed.\n\n-Gayane: Tayara went down to our apartment to see what was happened there, and\nfound two bandits. They asked her, \"What are you doing here\" Tayara answered, \n\"I came to take something for myself.\" \"Take all you want, they're gone now.\" \n\n-Zinaida: Yes, she had wanted to get something for us, at least some bedding. \nShe said, \"What are you going to do, empty handed, naked, with three children,\nnothing remains of your entire apartment.\" In short, we calmed down, and the \ncrowd raced off to the other building, the one across from us. I don't know \nwhat went on there.\n\n-Gayane: The curfew had its effect on the gangs, many started to disperse:\nthey were warned that they would open fire on them. The soldiers didn't know \nthe city, they couldn't get oriented, they drove up and down the main streets,\nbut didn't go into the courtyards. When we were at the City Party Committee \nthey asked people from Sumgait to go with them and show them the way.\n\n-Zinaida: The tanks entered the city on the night of the 29th.\n\n-Gayane: No, Mamma, the tanks had been there earlier, but were near the City \nParty Committee, where the Armenians were . . . After midnight, on March 1, \nwhen I had finally gotten to sleep after two sleepless nights, Mamma said, \n\"Get your things together, they have sent buses for us.\" As it was we had been\ndressed the entire time. Mamma went to check it out . . .and came back for us.\n\n-Zinaida: When I came back for the children Tayara said that Vika was alive \nand well, some guys had come and told her that they had hidden her in a safe \nplace. I both believed it and didn't believe it. We ran out to the tanks. The \nGambarians were there, Roman and Sasha; their father, Shurik, the clarinetist,\nwas killed, and their mother was there. Sasha came over and asked about the \ngirls. I was surprised, how did he know my girls? He said that he knew me and \nthe girls. Our neighbor himself went for Gaya and Diana and it seemed like he \nwas taking forever so I went after him. Another neighbor came out, Anna \nVasilyevna, a Russian: \"Zinochka, my dear, goodbye and good luck.\" She kissed \nDiana. They put us in the bus and the captain gave the order for us to be \ntaken to the City Party Committee. The bus wouldn't start, so they put us on \nanother one. It was pouring rain.\n\n-Diana: When they imposed the curfew there were many soldiers on the streets, \nand they all had clubs and shields. And when the Azerbaijanis attacked them, \nmany of the soldiers died. They threw paving stones--huge rocks--at the \nsoldiers. I saw this myself. The soldiers ran over those Azerbaijanis with the\ntanks. The soldiers saw that the Azerbaijanis were doing violence to people \nand they ran over them out of rage. We got scared and they hid me under a \nmattress and a blanket, and Gaya and Mamma crawled into the wardrobe. And they\nwere fighting right down there on the street . . . Near the building they were\nblowing up buses and tanks, and cars were burning, and there were many dead in\nthe courtyard. They drove without looking to see if it was a sidewalk or a \nstreet, they just drove, and the ones who didn't manage to get out of the way \nwere run over by the tanks. And when we left--it was evening, it was already \ndark--there were three buses, and one of them had soldiers in it. Mamma ran up\nand said, \"Get your clothes on, let's go.\" Gaya was wearing slippers, and I \nhad on my blue dress, but it was an old one. I was wearing my old jacket, my \nold dress, and slippers. And nothing else. Gaya had on a skirt, her Angora \nsweater, and slippers. It was raining hard, and there were puddles on the \nstreet. They gave Mamma an old coat because she was wearing a short-sleeved \ndress; she put it on and we ran out. We got onto the bus and I was hungry, one\nof the soldiers from Yerevan gave me rations and carried me from one bus to\nthe other in his arms. I gave him the little glass that remained from Vika's\ntrousseau, and he gave me his telephone number.\n\n-Gayane: In the bus there was a soldier with a shield sitting at every window.\nWe had to be ready for anything. They took us to the City Party Committee, let\nus out, and then took us into the City Party Committee building under armed \nguard. It was jammed with people and you couldn't breathe. We asked, \"Are \nthese all us? Armenians?\" They answered yes. We were surprised that there were\nso many Armenians in Sumgait. All those years we lived there and didn't know \nthere were so many Armenians, 18,000. We were struck by that, we had never \nnoticed. Going downstairs the next day I ran into the Secretary of the \nKomsomol from Vika's plant, the Khimprom. He said that Vika was alive and \nwell. When I told Mamma she of course calmed down some more. But you know, \nafter all that it was hard to believe anything, our faith in everything was \njust gone. She didn't believe it completely.\n\n-Zinaida: I didn't believe it because I had heard all kinds of things. When\nwe arrived at the City Party Committee we heard everything imaginable! It\nwas the fear of God. I saw many of our acquaintances, they were kissing each \nother and asking how their children and homes were. Many people already knew \nthat there had been a pogrom of our apartment. They had seen the broken \nwindows. I cried, saying that I didn't know where Vika was. One woman said \nthat they had taken two of her daughters and that she couldn't find one of \nthem; the other had been slashed all over. A second said that her husband and\nher son had been murdered. That was Nelli Aramian. She lived in Building 6 in \nour microdistrict. They killed her husband, Armo, and her son Artur. I heard \nso many things like that that I was already starting to lose touch; my \npatience had run dry waiting for my daughter. Later an Azerbaijani fellow came\nto me and said, Aunt Zina, Vika sent me, she's alive and well and hidden in a \nsafe place; if you want I'll call her there and you can speak with her. We \nwent downstairs to the first floor and he called Vika. I spoke with her, heard\nthe voice of my child. She had managed to survive in that hell. Then I started\nbegging that Azerbaijani to bring her to the City Party Committee. He tried to\ntalk me out of it: \"I'll bring her wherever you go, don't worry, I've looked \nafter her better than a brother does a sister.\" All the same I asked him to \nget her. He brought her and I calmed down. On the second day there was a \nmeeting with Demichev [Member of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the\nCommunist Party of the USSR,] and people started shouting. One shouted, \"Give \nme my son back!\", another yelled, \"Where is my daughter?!\", a third wanted her\nhusband . . . Bagirov was there too, and he stood there blinking, not saying \nanything.\n\n-Gayane: When Demichev asked where we wanted to go, everyone shouted, \"To\nRussia!\" To be honest we were all frightened of Armenia, there were such wild \nrumors it was as though we were in a terrible dream, and no one wanted to go \nto Armenia. But he said that he couldn't evacuate 18,000 people to Russia and \nthat he would meet with everyone individually the next day and speak with \nthem. And he also said that today he was going to go look at all of our \napartments. On March 3 we went to the military barracks in the village of \nNasosny. We were taken care of marvelously by the military. They sent special \nflights of children right from there to Minvody, Yerevan, and Moscow. One \nwoman left for Moscow with a letter for Gorbachev and Gromyko.\n\n-Zinaida: The worst was truly behind us by then. Everything had passed, but \nthe pain will remain for our whole lives. It cannot be forgotten. Under no \ncircumstances should we, our children, or our grandchildren forget. Who will\nanswer for those who died? For our mothers, sisters, brother, sons and\ndaughters? Who will bear the responsibility? Who will wash away their blood? \nSomeone should be made to answer, and severely, so it has an effect on the \npeople that did with us as they pleased . . . It isn't over yet, now we live \nhere, in Armenia, protected, but the issue isn't resolved. We would like\nto stay in Armenia, in our homeland, so that all the Armenian people will be\nunited. Then we will be invincible. Armenians won't be scattered throughout \nthe Soviet Union, about the world, and if we're all together this won't happen\nagain. As a mother of three children, as a woman, as a sister, I ask Armenians\nto be united so that what happened in Sumgait will never happen again. Our \nhomeland . . . The only request we have is that we be helped in obtaining an \napartment and getting jobs. So that our children can work for the good of \nArmenia. If we aren't able to, then let our children do it. And if it's \npossible, we'll work for the good of Armenia too. This is the land of our \nforefathers. Our grandfathers and great-grandfathers lived here too, it was \nonly later that people dispersed all over. Like a mother, the land here bore \nand reared us. It is our wife, and will protect us, too. I want but one thing:\nthat our people never see the hardship that our children saw, that your \nchildren here, in Armenia, never see anything like it.\n\n May 28, 1988\n Yerevan\n\t\t - - - reference - - -\n\n[1] _The Sumgait Tragedy; Pogroms against Armenians in Soviet Azerbaijan,\n Volume I, Eyewitness Accounts_, edited by Samuel Shahmuradian, forward by\n Yelena Bonner, 1990, published by Aristide D. Caratzas, NY, pages 187-203\n\n", "The scenario and genocide staged by the Armenians 78 years ago in \nx-Soviet Armenia is being reenacted again - this time in Azerbaijan. \n\nThe stories of survivors of Karabag massacre are in 'Milliyet' today.\n\n69 year old Hatin Nine telling:\n\n-''My Twin grandchildren were cut to pieces in front of my eyes. They told\nme: We won't kill you. But the babies have to die in front of your eyes.''\n\n72 year old Huseyin Ibrahimoglu:\n\n- ''Our Turkish village in Khojalu Town was blown up in two hours.\n Turks, you must die.''\n\n28 year old Gulsum Huseyin:\n\n- ''They bayonetted my 3 year old daughter in her stomach in front of\n my eyes.''\n\nAre these stories lies? Have the eye-witnesses been day-dreaming?\nWere these stories forged by Turkish journalists in the region?\n\nThe nonsense of such a claim is clear from the writings of British\nJournalists, too. Two days before we had quoted from a Sunday Times\narticle. They[British] reported the events in Karabag even before\nTurkish journalists. What is more here are the pictures. Pictures\nof people who were bayonetted, whose eyes were gouged, ears cut off.\n\nEven the Armenian Radio couldn't claim these \"lies.\" They are saying\n\"exaggeration.\" That means ''somethings'' have happened but the\nsituation is not as bad as reported. Perhaps that village of Khojalu\ntown was destroyed in 4 hours, instead of 2... Or Gulsum Huseyin's\n3 year old daughter was bayonetted in her chest instead of stomach...\n\nThe massacre is clearly seen with all its dimensions. The effects of\nthis massacre on Karabag and environs cannot be reduced by any word.\n\nSome of the western press', led by some French Newspapers, ability\nto ''close their eyes'' is nothing but complicity in this massacre.\n\nYesterday we gave samples from Le Figaro. Until yesterday's print\nno news about the real events in Karabag were printed. So were the\nFrench TV channels.. The subject they considered related to Karabag\nwas ''The necessity of protecting Armenians against Azeri attacks.''\n\nThe age we are living in is termed a human rights age. There are lots\nof organizations such as United Nations and CSCE(Conference on Security\nand Cooperation in Europe), and rules, all designed to fight against human\nrights violations. International reactions must be made with international\ncooperation. With support of everybody and every organization claiming\nto be civilized.\n\nCould there be a more serious human rights violation than that of the\nright to live -and with such levels of barbarity and cruelty-? Where\nis the cooperation? Where are the reactions? And the intellectuals,\njournalists, writers, TV stations of certain western countries such\nas France who are fast to claim leadership of \"human rights?\"\nWhere are you?\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\n\n\n Hmm ... Turks sure know how to keep track of deaths, but they seem to\nlose count around 1.5 million.", "\n\nBecause, the x-Soviet Armenian government got away with the genocide \nof 2.5 million Turkish men, women and children and is enjoying the \nfruits of that genocide. And they are doing 'it' again. Are you so \nblind?\n\n\nKurds 'R' us; Armenians 'R' not.\n\n\nExcuse me?\n\n \"We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as \n ways of escape for the Tartars and then proceeded in the work \n of extermination. Our troops surrounded village after village. \n Little resistance was offered. Our artillery knocked the huts \n into heaps of stone and dust and when the villages became untenable \n and inhabitants fled from them into fields, bullets and bayonets \n completed the work. Some of the Tartars escaped of course. They \n found refuge in the mountains or succeeded in crossing the border \n into Turkey. The rest were killed. And so it is that the whole \n length of the borderland of Russian Armenia from Nakhitchevan to \n Akhalkalaki from the hot plains of Ararat to the cold mountain \n plateau of the North were dotted with mute mournful ruins of \n Tartar villages. They are quiet now, those villages, except for \n howling of wolves and jackals that visit them to paw over the \n scattered bones of the dead.\" \n\n Ohanus Appressian\n \"Men Are Like That\"\n p. 202.\n\n\nA genocide is a deliberate and organized massacre of people in an \nattempt to exterminate a race. This is the worst crime in history. \nIt happened to the Turks in eastern Anatolia and the Armenian \ndictatorship. 2.5 million Turks and Kurds were killed in the worst \nways imaginable. It is sickening to think that the human race is capable \nof such actions, but there is no denying the fact that the Armenian \ngenocide of 2.5 million Muslims happened.\n\nPeople of Turkiye deeply sympathize with those whose relatives were \nkilled in the Turkish genocide. I understand their anger that there \nare those who still deny that the Turkish genocide indeed took place, \ndespite the fact that the genocide of 2.5 million Turks has been \nwell documented over the past six decades. We cannot reverse\nthe events of the past, but we can and we must strive to keep the\nmemory of this tragedy alive on this side of the Atlantic, so as\nto help prevent a recurrence of the extermination of a people\nbecause of their religion or their race. \n\nSource: Bristol Papers, General Correspondence: Container #32 - Bristol\n to Bradley Letter of September 14, 1920.\n\n\"I have it from absolute first-hand information that the Armenians in \n the Caucasus attacked Tartar (Turkish) villages that are utterly \n defenseless and bombarded these villages with artillery and they murder\n the inhabitants, pillage the village and often burn the village.\"\n\n\nWhy not?\n\n\nAnd the Germans were subject to Jewish Genocide? Are you for real? \nTell me 'Halsall', were you high on \"ASALA/SDPA/ARF\" forgeries and\nfabrications when you wrote that? Where is your non-existent list\nof scholars. Here is mine: During the First World War and the ensuing \nyears - 1914-1920, the Armenian Dictatorship through a premeditated \nand systematic genocide, tried to complete its centuries-old policy \nof annihilation against the Turks and Kurds by savagely murdering \n2.5 million Muslims and deporting the rest from their 1,000 year \nhomeland.\n\nThe attempt at genocide is justly regarded as the first instance\nof Genocide in the 20th Century acted upon an entire people.\nThis event is incontrovertibly proven by historians, government\nand international political leaders, such as U.S. Ambassador Mark \nBristol, William Langer, Ambassador Layard, James Barton, Stanford \nShaw, Arthur Chester, John Dewey, Robert Dunn, Papazian, Nalbandian, \nOhanus Appressian, Jorge Blanco Villalta, General Nikolayef, General \nBolkovitinof, General Prjevalski, General Odiselidze, Meguerditche, \nKazimir, Motayef, Twerdokhlebof, General Hamelin, Rawlinson, Avetis\nAharonian, Dr. Stephan Eshnanie, Varandian, General Bronsart, Arfa,\nDr. Hamlin, Boghos Nubar, Sarkis Atamian, Katchaznouni, Rachel \nBortnick, Halide Edip, McCarthy, W. B. Allen, Paul Muratoff and many \nothers.\n\nJ. C. Hurewitz, Professor of Government Emeritus, Former Director of\nthe Middle East Institute (1971-1984), Columbia University.\n\nBernard Lewis, Cleveland E. Dodge Professor of Near Eastern History,\nPrinceton University.\n\nHalil Inalcik, University Professor of Ottoman History & Member of\nthe American Academy of Arts & Sciences, University of Chicago.\n\nPeter Golden, Professor of History, Rutgers University, Newark.\n\nStanford Shaw, Professor of History, University of California at\nLos Angeles.\n\nThomas Naff, Professor of History & Director, Middle East Research\nInstitute, University of Pennsylvania.\n\nRonald Jennings, Associate Professor of History & Asian Studies,\nUniversity of Illinois.\n\nHoward Reed, Professor of History, University of Connecticut.\n\nDankwart Rustow, Distinguished University Professor of Political\nScience, City University Graduate School, New York.\n\nJohn Woods, Associate Professor of Middle Eastern History, \nUniversity of Chicago.\n\nJohn Masson Smith, Jr., Professor of History, University of\nCalifornia at Berkeley.\n\nAlan Fisher, Professor of History, Michigan State University.\n\nAvigdor Levy, Professor of History, Brandeis University.\n\nAndreas G. E. Bodrogligetti, Professor of History, University of California\nat Los Angeles.\n\nKathleen Burrill, Associate Professor of Turkish Studies, Columbia University.\n\nRoderic Davison, Professor of History, George Washington University.\n\nWalter Denny, Professor of History, University of Massachusetts.\n\nCaesar Farah, Professor of History, University of Minnesota.\n\nTom Goodrich, Professor of History, Indiana University of Pennsylvania.\n\nTibor Halasi-Kun, Professor Emeritus of Turkish Studies, Columbia University.\n\nJustin McCarthy, Professor of History, University of Louisville.\n\nJon Mandaville, Professor of History, Portland State University (Oregon).\n\nRobert Olson, Professor of History, University of Kentucky.\n\nMadeline Zilfi, Professor of History, University of Maryland.\n\nJames Stewart-Robinson, Professor of Turkish Studies, University of Michigan.\n\n.......so the list goes on and on and on.....\n\nNow wait, there is more.\n\n Mark Alan Epstein, 'The Ottoman Jewish Communities and their Role\n in the Fifteenth and Sixteenth Centuries,' Klaus Schwarz Werlag,\n Freiburg (1980).\n\n page 19:\n\n <>\n\n\n page 21:\n\n <> (*)\n\n\n page 41:\n\n <<...the impression gained from the Hebrew sources is that the Jews were\n firmly aware of the community of interests which existed between them\n and the Ottomans, especially in comparison to relations with the Christians\n of Europe.\n\n Confirmation of the commonality of interests between Muslims and Jews is\n also indicated by the fact that European Christians perceived the Jews\n as allies of Islam and were well aware of Muslim-Jewish cooperation.\n Certainly the activity of important Jewish financiers and politicians\n representing the Ottoman government abroad did not pass unnoticed. European\n sources are the basis for much of our knowledge of their careers. In addition\n it appears that Christian pirates plundered ''Turks and Jews,'' their\n sworn enemies, and that Europeans considered the Jews to be agents who\n regularly reported to the Ottomans.\n\n There are well-known examples of overt Jewish support for the Ottomans\n in the struggle against European powers. The two best known instances\n of Jewish support for the campaigning Ottomans are the frequently cited\n instances of the Jewish contributions to the conquests of Buda, in the\n early sixteenth century, and of Rhodes. We also have reports of sympathy\n for the Ottomans during the siege of Chios. An unpublished Ottoman\n document shows dramatically the mutual interests which existed in some\n Greek towns...>>\n\n page 43:\n\n <>\n\n\n page 46:\n\n <<...it seems that the relations between Greeks and Jews were not\n particularly cordial. The two groups had little in common, few common\n interests, and perceived no common philosophical or religious tradition\n which could serve as the basis for cooperation, rather than enmity. If\n there was any identifiable bond of good will which existed between\n religious communities in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries, it was\n that between Muslims and Jews, neither of whom had much in common with\n the Orthodox.>>\n\n page 46:\n\n <>\n\n page 151:\n\n <>\n\n page 161:\n\n <>\n\n\n(*) A version of Rabbi Sarfati's [Tzarfati] letter is given by Prof.Shaw:\n\n page 32:\n\n <>[13]\n\n[13] Israel Zinberg, A History Of Jewish Literature. vol.V. The Jewish\n Center of Culture in the Ottoman Empire (Hebrew Union College Press,\n Ktav Publishers, New York, 1974).\n\nSerdar Argic", "HELLO, shit face david, I see that you are still around. I dont want to \nsee your shitty writings posted here man. I told you. You are getting\nitchy as your fucking country. Hey , and dont give me that freedom\nof speach bullshit once more. Because your freedom has ended when you started\nwriting things about my people. And try to translate this \"ebenin donu\nbutti kafa David.\".\n\nBYE, ANACIM HADE.\nTIMUCIN\n\n", "Source: Hassan Arfa, \"The Kurds,\" (London, 1968), pp. 25-26.\n\n \"When the Russian armies invaded Turkey after the Sarikamish disaster \n of 1914, their columns were preceded by battalions of irregular \n Armenian volunteers, both from the Caucasus and from Turkey. One of \n these was commanded by a certain Andranik, a blood-thirsty adventurer.\n These Armenian volunteers committed all kinds of excesses, more\n than six hundred thousand Kurds being killed between 1915 and 1916 in \n the eastern vilayets of Turkey.\"\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nWell, apparently we have another son of Dro 'the Butcher' to contend with. \nYou should indeed be happy to know that you rekindled a huge discussion on\ndistortions propagated by several of your contemporaries. If you feel \nthat you can simply act as an Armenian governmental crony in this forum \nyou will be sadly mistaken and duly embarrassed. This is not a lecture to \nanother historical revisionist and a genocide apologist, but a fact.\n\nI will dissect article-by-article, paragraph-by-paragraph, line-by-line, \nlie-by-lie, revision-by-revision, written by those on this net, who plan \nto 'prove' that the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Turks and Kurds is \nnothing less than a classic un-redressed genocide. We are neither in \nx-Soviet Union, nor in some similar ultra-nationalist fascist dictatorship, \nthat employs the dictates of Hitler to quell domestic unrest. Also, feel \nfree to distribute all responses to your nearest ASALA/SDPA/ARF terrorists,\nthe Armenian pseudo-scholars, or to those affiliated with the Armenian\ncriminal organizations.\n\nx-Soviet Armenian government got away with the genocide of 2.5 million \nTurkish men, women and children and is enjoying the fruits of that genocide. \nYou, and those like you, will not get away with the genocide's cover-up.\n\nDuring the First World War and the ensuing years - 1914-1920, \nthe Armenians through a premeditated and systematic genocide, \ntried to complete its centuries-old policy of annihilation against \nthe Turks and Kurds by savagely murdering 2.5 million Muslims and \ndeporting the rest from their 1,000 year homeland.\n\nThe attempt at genocide is justly regarded as the first instance\nof Genocide in the 20th Century acted upon an entire people.\nThis event is incontrovertibly proven by historians, government\nand international political leaders, such as U.S. Ambassador Mark \nBristol, William Langer, Ambassador Layard, James Barton, Stanford \nShaw, Arthur Chester, John Dewey, Robert Dunn, Papazian, Nalbandian, \nOhanus Appressian, Jorge Blanco Villalta, General Nikolayef, General \nBolkovitinof, General Prjevalski, General Odiselidze, Meguerditche, \nKazimir, Motayef, Twerdokhlebof, General Hamelin, Rawlinson, Avetis\nAharonian, Dr. Stephan Eshnanie, Varandian, General Bronsart, Arfa,\nDr. Hamlin, Boghos Nubar, Sarkis Atamian, Katchaznouni, Rachel \nBortnick, Halide Edip, McCarthy, W. B. Allen, Paul Muratoff and many \nothers.\n\nJ. C. Hurewitz, Professor of Government Emeritus, Former Director of\nthe Middle East Institute (1971-1984), Columbia University.\n\nBernard Lewis, Cleveland E. Dodge Professor of Near Eastern History,\nPrinceton University.\n\nHalil Inalcik, University Professor of Ottoman History & Member of\nthe American Academy of Arts & Sciences, University of Chicago.\n\nPeter Golden, Professor of History, Rutgers University, Newark.\n\nStanford Shaw, Professor of History, University of California at\nLos Angeles.\n\nThomas Naff, Professor of History & Director, Middle East Research\nInstitute, University of Pennsylvania.\n\nRonald Jennings, Associate Professor of History & Asian Studies,\nUniversity of Illinois.\n\nHoward Reed, Professor of History, University of Connecticut.\n\nDankwart Rustow, Distinguished University Professor of Political\nScience, City University Graduate School, New York.\n\nJohn Woods, Associate Professor of Middle Eastern History, \nUniversity of Chicago.\n\nJohn Masson Smith, Jr., Professor of History, University of\nCalifornia at Berkeley.\n\nAlan Fisher, Professor of History, Michigan State University.\n\nAvigdor Levy, Professor of History, Brandeis University.\n\nAndreas G. E. Bodrogligetti, Professor of History, University of California\nat Los Angeles.\n\nKathleen Burrill, Associate Professor of Turkish Studies, Columbia University.\n\nRoderic Davison, Professor of History, George Washington University.\n\nWalter Denny, Professor of History, University of Massachusetts.\n\nCaesar Farah, Professor of History, University of Minnesota.\n\nTom Goodrich, Professor of History, Indiana University of Pennsylvania.\n\nTibor Halasi-Kun, Professor Emeritus of Turkish Studies, Columbia University.\n\nJustin McCarthy, Professor of History, University of Louisville.\n\nJon Mandaville, Professor of History, Portland State University (Oregon).\n\nRobert Olson, Professor of History, University of Kentucky.\n\nMadeline Zilfi, Professor of History, University of Maryland.\n\nJames Stewart-Robinson, Professor of Turkish Studies, University of Michigan.\n\n.......so the list goes on and on and on.....\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nThey are news because they are the exceptions. And the 'Islamic Holocaust'\nis much the topic of the day. The historical evidence proves that during \nthe period of 1914 to 1920, the Armenian Government ordered, incited, \nassisted and participated in the genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people \nbecause of race, religion and national origin. Armenians perpetrated acts \nof sabotage, destroyed telephone cables, blew up bridges, blocked passes, \nset up ambushes, attacked security stations and small Turkish outposts \nbehind the Ottoman Army lines on the one hand, and on the other ruthlessly \nattacked Turkish and Kurdish villages, slaughtering the Turkish population \nindiscriminately, women, children, old and young alike. Innocent \nMuslims were one by one cruelly bayonetted to death, or massacred with \naxes and swords, or else shut up in mosques or in schools and then burnt\nalive as can be seen below.\n\nWidespread Armenian massacres of innocent Muslims took place in regions \nof Van, Kars, Sivas, Erzurum, Bitlis, Erzincan, Mus, Diyarbakir and \nMaras. The Ottoman Army, while fighting to prevent the Russian invasion,\nalso had to deal with Armenian genocide squads who cowardly hit from \nbehind. The Armenian genocide of the Muslims spread to all parts of \nEastern Anatolia. Starting from late 1914, Armenians committed \nwidespread massacres and genocide in Eastern Anatolia, because the arena\nwas left to the Armenians. Almost every Turkish town and village from \nErzincan up to Azerbaidjan suffered large scale massacres and genocide \nby Armenians and the Turkish genocide has been documented by Armenian, \nRussian, American, British, Ottoman, German, Austrian and French \njournalists and officers who observed the first genocide of this century\ncommitted by the blood-thirsty Armenian genocide squads.\n\nThe Ottoman Army, liberating Trabzon, Bayburt, Erzincan, Erzurum, \nKars and other regions from the Russians, saw that the cities and their \nvillages had been destroyed and burnt, people slaughtered, massacred.\nThe massacres conducted by Armenians, which became a black stain for\nhumanity, shocked and disgusted even the Russian, British, German,\nAustrian, French and American authorities.\n\nAlmost every Ottoman document is related to Armenian massacres and \ncruelties. The inhuman treatment, cruelties, atrocities, genocide by \nArmenian genocide squads perpetrated against innocent Moslem Turkish \nand Kurdish people, are sufficiently reflected in historical documents. \nEven today over seventy-five years later, the terrifying screams of \nthe victims of these cruelties can be heard.\n\n\nSource: Documents: Volume I (1919).\n \"Document No: 76,\" Archive No: 1/2, Cabin No: 109, Drawer \n No: 3, File No: 346, Section No: 427(1385), Contents No: 3, 52-53.\n (To Lt. Colonel Seyfi, General Headquarters, Second Section, \n Istanbul - Dr. Stephan Eshnanie)\n\n'Neues Wiener Tagblatt' - Vienna, 'Pester Lloyd' 'Local Anzliger' - Berlin,\n'Algemeen Handelsblat' - Amsterdam, 'Vakit' - Istanbul.\n\n\"I have been closely following for two weeks the withdrawal of Russians and\n Armenians from Turkish territories through Armenia. Although two months\n have elapsed since the clearing of the territories of Armenian gangs, I\n have been observing the evidence of the cruelties of the Armenians at \n almost every step. All the villages from Trabzon to Erzincan and from\n Erzincan to Erzurum are destroyed. Corpses of Turks brutally and cruelly\n slain are everywhere. According to accounts by those who were able to\n save their lives by escaping to mountains, the first horrible and fearful\n events begun when the Russian forces evacuated the places which were then\n taken over by Armenian gangs. The Russians usually treated the people \n well, but the people feared the intervention of the Armenians. Once these\n places had been taken over by the Armenians, however, the massacres begun.\n They clearly announced their intention of clearing what they called the\n Armenian and Kurdish land from the Turks and thus, solve the nationality\n problem. Today I had the opportunity to meet Austrian and German soldiers\n who had escaped from Russian prison camps and come from Kars and\n Alexander Paul (Gumru-Leninakan)...Russian officers tried to save the \n Turks and there were clashes between Russian officers and Armenian gangs. \n I am now in Erzurum, and what I see is terrible. Almost the whole city is \n destroyed. The smell of the corpses still fills the air. Although there are \n speculations that Armenian gangs murdered Austrian and German prisoners as \n well, I could not get the supporting evidence in this regard, but there is \n proof of murdering of Turkish prisoners of war.\"\n\n Dr. Stephan Eshnanie\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nPardon me?\n\n\"Greece Government Rail-Roads Two Turkish Ethnic Deputies\"\n\nWhile World Human Rights Organizations Scream, Greeks \nPersistently Work on Removing the Parliamentary Immunity\nof Dr. Sadik Ahmet and Mr. Ahmet Faikoglu.\n\n\nDr. Sadik Ahmet, Turkish Ethnic Member of Greek Parliament, Visits US\n\nWashington DC, July 7- Doctor Sadik Ahmet, one of the two ethnic\nTurkish members of the Greek parliament visited US on june 24 through\nJuly 5th and held meetings with human rights organizations and\nhigh-level US officials in Washington DC and New York.\n\nAt his press conference at the National Press Club in Washington DC,\nSadik Ahmet explained the plight of ethnic Turks in Greece and stated\nsix demands from Greek government.\n\nAhmet said \"our only hope in Greece is the pressure generated from\nWestern capitals for insisting that Greece respects the human rights.\nWhat we are having done to ethnic Turks in Greece is exactly the same\nas South African Apartheid.\" He added: \"What we are facing is pure\nGreek hatred and racial discrimination.\"\n\nSpelling out the demands of the Turkish ethnic community in Greece\nhe said \"We want the restoration of Greek citizenship of 544 ethnic\nTurks. Their citizenship was revoked by using the excuse that this\npeople have stayed out of Greece for too long. They are Greek citizens\nand are residing in Greece, even one of them is actively serving in\nthe Greek army. Besides, other non-Turkish citizens of Greece are\nnot subject to this kind of interpretation at an extent that many of\nGreek-Americans have Greek citizenship and they permanently live in\nthe United States.\"\n\n\"We want guarantee for Turkish minority's equal rights. We want Greek\ngovernment to accept the Turkish minority and grant us our civil rights.\nOur people are waiting since 25 years to get driving licenses. The Greek\ngovernment is not granting building permits to Turks for renovating\nour buildings or building new ones. If your name is Turkish, you are\nnot hired to the government offices.\"\n\n\"Furthermore, we want Greek government to give us equal opportunity\nin business. They do not grant licenses so we can participate in the\neconomic life of Greece. In my case, they denied me a medical license\nnecessary for practicing surgery in Greek hospitals despite the fact\nthat I have finished a Greek medical school and followed all the\nnecessary steps in my career.\"\n\n\"We want freedom of expression for ethnic Turks. We are not allowed\nto call ourselves Turks. I myself have been subject of a number of\nlaw suits and even have been imprisoned just because I called myself\na Turk.\"\n\n\"We also want Greek government to provide freedom of religion.\"\n\nIn separate interview with The Turkish Times, Dr. Sadik Ahmet stated\nthat the conditions of ethnic Turks are deplorable and in the eyes of\nGreek laws, ethnic Greeks are more equal than ethnic Turks. As an example,\nhe said there are about 20,000 telephone subscribers in Selanik (Thessaloniki)\nand only about 800 of them are Turks. That is not because Turks do not\nwant to have telephone services at their home and businesses. He said\nthat Greek government changed the election law just to keep him out\nof the parliament as an independent representative and they stated\nthis fact openly to him. While there is no minimum qualification\nrequirement for parties in terms of receiving at least 3% of the votes,\nthey imposed this requirement for the independent parties, including\nthe Turkish candidates.\n\nAhmet was born in a small village at Gumulcine (Komotini), Greece 1947.\nHe earned his medical degree at University of Thessaloniki in 1974.\nhe served in the Greek military as an infantryman.\n\nIn 1985 he got involved with community affairs for the first time\nby collecting 15,000 signatures to protest the unjust implementation\nof laws against ethnic Turks. In 1986, he was arrested by the police\nfor collecting signatures.\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\n\n\nAre you related to 'Arromdian' of ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism and Revisionism \nTriangle?\n\n\nDitto.\n\n\nHELSINKI WATCH: \"PROBLEMS OF TURKS IN WESTERN THRACE CONTINUE\"\n\nAnkara (A.A) In a 15-page report of the \"Helsinki Watch\" it is\nstated that the Turkish minority in Western Thrace is still faced\nwith problems and stipulated that the discriminatory policy being\nimplemented by the Greek Government be brought to an end.\n\nThe report on Western Thrace emphasized that the Greek government\nshould grant social and political rights to all the members of\nminorities that are equal to those enjoyed by Greek citizens and\nin addition they must recognize the existence of the \"Turkish\nMinority\" in Western Thrace and grant them the right to identify\nthemselves as 'Turks'.\n\nNEWSPOT, May 1992\n\n\nGREECE ISOLATES WEST THRACE TURKS\n\nThe Xanthi independent MP Ahmet Faikoglu said that the Greek\nstate is trying to cut all contacts and relations of the Turkish\nminority with Turkey.\n\nPointing out that while the Greek minority living in Istanbul is\ncalled \"Greek\" by ethnic definition, only the religion of the\nminority in Western Thrace is considered. In an interview with\nTurkish origin. The individuals of the minority living in Western\nTrace are also Turkish.\"\n\nEmphasizing the education problem for the Turkish minority in\nWestern Thrace Faikoglu said that according to an agreement\nsigned in 1951 Greece must distribute textbooks printed in Turkey\nin Turkish minority schools in Western Thrace.\n\nRecalling his activities and those of Komotini independent MP Dr.\nSadIk Ahmet to defend the rights of the Turkish minority,\nFaikoglu said. \"In fact we helped Greece. Because we prevented\nGreece, the cradle of democracy, from losing face before European\ncountries by forcing the Greek government to recognize our legal\nrights.\"\n\nOn Turco-Greek relations, he pointed out that both countries are\npredestined to live in peace for geographical and historical\nreasons and said that Turkey and Greece must resist the foreign\npowers who are trying to create a rift between them by\ncooperating, adding that in Turkey he observed that there was\nwill to improve relations with Greece.\n\nNEWSPOT, January 1993\n\n\nMACEDONIAN HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVISTS TO FACE TRIAL IN GREECE.\n\nTwo ethnic Macedonian human rights activists will face trial in\nAthens for alleged crimes against the Greek state, according to a\nCourt Summons (No. 5445) obtained by MILS.\n\n Hristos Sideropoulos and Tashko Bulev (or Anastasios Bulis)\nhave been charged under Greek criminal law for making comments in\nan Athenian magazine.\n\n Sideropoulos and Bulev gave an interview to the Greek weekly\nmagazine \"ENA\" on March 11, 1992, and said that they as\nMacedonians were denied basic human rights in Greece and would\nfield an ethnic Macedonian candidate for the up-coming Greek\ngeneral election.\n\n Bulev said in the interview: \"I am not Greek, I am Macedonian.\"\nSideropoulos said in the article that \"Greece should recognise\nMacedonia. The allegations regarding territorial aspirations\nagainst Greece are tales... We are in a panic to secure the\nborder, at a time when the borders and barriers within the EEC\nare falling.\"\n\n The main charge against the two, according to the court\nsummons, was that \"they have spread...intentionally false\ninformation which might create unrest and fear among the\ncitizens, and might affect the public security or harm the\ninternational interests of the country (Greece).\"\n\n The Greek state does not recognise the existence of a\nMacedonian ethnicity. There are believed to be between 350,000 to\n1,000,000 ethnic Macedonians living within Greece, largely\nconcentrated in the north. It is a crime against the Greek state\nif anyone declares themselves Macedonian.\n\n In 1913 Greece, Serbia-Yugoslavia and Bulgaria partioned\nMacedonia into three pieces. In 1919 Albania took 50 Macedonian\nvillages. The part under Serbo-Yugoslav occupation broke away in\n1991 as the independent Republic of Macedonia. There are 1.5\nmillion Macedonians in the Republic; 500,000 in Bulgaria; 150,000\nin Albania; and 300,000 in Serbia proper.\n\n Sideropoulos has been a long time campaigner for Macedonian\nhuman rights in Greece, and lost his job as a forestry worker a\nfew years ago. He was even exiled to an obscure Greek island in\nthe mediteranean. Only pressure from Amnesty International forced\nthe Greek government to allow him to return to his home town of\nFlorina (Lerin) in Northern Greece (Aegean Macedonia), where the\nmajority of ethnic Macedonians live.\n\n Balkan watchers see the Sideropoulos affair as a show trial in\nwhich Greece is desperate to clamp down on internal dissent,\nespecially when it comes to the issue of recognition for its\nnorthern neighbour, the Republic of Macedonia.\n\n Last year the State Department of the United States condemned\nGreece for its bad treatment of ethnic Macedonians and Turks (who\nlargely live in Western Thrace). But it remains to be seen if the\nUS government will do anything until the Presidential elections\nare over.\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nNever. I don't know whether anybody formulated and proposed such an \nindex or criteria to determine the magnitude of a genocide as mentioned \nand advised by Toynbee. If one ever does you will easily see the magnitude \nof the crime of genocide committed by the Armenians, by massacring an alien\npopulation under their rule which constituted about 40% of their total\npopulation and they did it only within a time period of a little over\ntwo years in which they enjoyed having full control over this population.\n\nNow I would like to ask you:\n\n Is there any other genocide in the history of mankind similar to \n this one?\n\nAnd again I would like to ask you:\n\n Whether the silent and unmourned martyrdom of these hundreds of thousands\n of Turks of the Republic of Armenia who were exterminated as a \"Final\n Solution\" to Turco-Tartar problems in Armenia is similar or not\n to the martyrdom of six million Jews in Europe as a final solution to\n Jewish problems?\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "Jammer !\n\n Dit is geen fantastische advertentie over nep-rolexen\n maar een evenzo duidelijke mededeling hieromtrent :\n\n Aangezien het alleen al aanbieden van deze horloges onder\n vermelding van de echte merknaam niet geheel correct is,\n wil ik met dit bericht duidelijk maken dat ik, Marcel Engelbertink,\n niet meer zal adverteren met imitatie-horloges van het merk ROLEX.\n\n Enig persoon die hierin geiinteresseerd is kan ik jammer genoeg ook niet\n meer helpen.\n\n\n\n\n For all the foreign people who can't even understand dutch ?!? :\n\n In spite of earlier mailing about fake-rolex's, I announce that I\n don't have any information available any longer and I won't use\n the trade name ROLEX anymore for those fake models.\n\n\n Yours fakefully,\n\n", "Subject: Re: NETTEKI BUTUN VATANSEVERLERE DUYURU....\n\nca (Suat Kiniklioglu) [a.k.a. Kubilay Kultigin] continues...\n\n[KK] BUTUN NETTEKI ARKADASLARA DUYURU....\n[KK]\n[KK] (SIYASI PLATFORMUN HANGI \"TARAFINDA OLURSANIZ OLUN\")\n[KK] \n[KK] BUGUNLERDE BU NETTE OLSUN, TALK.POLITICS.MIDEAST VE TALK.POLITICS.\n[KK] SOVIET'TE OLSUN OLAGAN DAN FAZLA VE \"ETKIN\" ERMENI VE YUNAN\n[KK] POSTINGLERI YAZILMAKTADIR. BU YAZILARIN COGU GUNCEL KARABAG\n[KK] KIBRIS VE BOSNA KONULARINDA YOGUNLASMAKTADIR. BURADAN HAREKETLE\n[KK] \"HEPIMIZIN\" BIRAZ DAHA AKTIF OLMASI VE \"USENMEYIP\" CEVAP YAZMASI\n[KK] OLDUKCA FAYDALI OLACAKTIR.\n[KK]\n[KK] EVET, HERKESIN ISI GUCU VAR...AKADEMIK YILIN YOGUN BIR DONEMI\n[KK] FAKAT MEYDANI BOS BIRAKMAMANIN VE ULKEMIZIN CIKARLARINI \"IDEOLOJIK\n[KK] PLATFORMDA\" GOZETMENIN DE SORUMLULUGU VAR...\n[KK]\n[KK] YARINLARIN CAGDAS VE GUCLU TURKIYESI'NI HEP BERABER KURMAK UMUDUYLA,\n[KK]\n[KK] SAYGILAR,\n\n[KK] Kubilay Kultigin\n\n[KK] ***** VATAN SEVGISI RUHLARI KIRDEN KURTARAN EN KUVVETLI RUZGARDIR *****\n\nIn translation, as a public service:\n\nSubject: AN ANNOUNCEMENT TO ALL PATRIOTS ON THE NET...\n\nAN ANNONCEMENT TO ALL FRIENDS ON THE NET...\n\n(REGARDLESS OF \"WHEREVER YOU STAND\" ON THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM)\n\nIN RECENT DAYS ARMENIAN AND GREEK POSTINGS OF THAN THE USUAL IN NUMBER AND\n\"EFFECTIVENESS\" ARE BEING WRITTEN BOTH ON THIS NET AND THE TALK.POLITICS.\nMIDEAST AND TALK.POLITICS.SOVIET. MOST OF THESE WRITINGS CONCENTRATE ON THE\nSUBJECTS OF KARABAGH, CYPRUS AND BOSNIA. DUE TO THIS FACT, IT IS QUITE USEFUL\nFOR \"US ALL\" BE MORE ACTIVE AND \"NOT FEEL RELUCTANT\" TO RESPOND. \n\nYES, EVERYBODY HAS HIS/HER OCCUPATION...IT IS A BUSY PERIOD IN THE ACADEMIC \nYEAR. HOWEVER, [WE MUST] HAVE A RESPONSIBILTY NOT TO LEAVE THE FORUM EMPTY AND \nWATCH THE INTERESTS OF OUR COUNTRY ON THE \"IDEOLOGICAL LEVEL\"...\n\nIN THE HOPE OF BUILDING TOGETHER A MODERN AND POWERFUL TURKEY OF TOMORRROW.\n\nREGARDS,\n\nKubilay Kultigin\n\n***** THE LOVE OF THE FATHERLAND IS THE STRONGEST OF ALL WINDS CLEANSING FILTH \nOFF SOULS *****\n\n", "(Soner Yamen) responded to article <1r20kr$m9q@nic.umass.edu> BURAK@UCSVAX.\n\n[AFS] Just a quick comment::\n[AFS]\n[AFS] Armenians killed Turks------Turks killed Armenians.\n[AFS]\n[AFS] Simple as that. Can anybody deny these facts?\n\nJews killed Germans in WWII -- Germans killed Jews in WWII, BUT there was \nquite a difference in these two statements, regardless of what Nazi \nrevisionists say!\n\n[SY] My grand parents were living partly in todays Armenia and partly in\n[SY] todays Georgia. There were villages, Kurd/Turk (different Turkic groups)\n[SY] Georgian (muslim/christian) Armenian and Farsi... Very near to eachother.\n[SY] The people living there were aware of their differences. They were \n[SY] different people. For example, my grandfather would not have been happy \n[SY] if his doughter had willed to marry an Armenian guy. But that did not \n[SY] mean that they were willing to kill eachother. No! They were neighbors.\n\nOK.\n\n[SY] Armenians killed Turks. Which Armenians? Their neoghbors? As far as my\n[SY] grandparents are concerned, the Armenians attacked first but these \n[SY] Armenians were not their neighbors. They came from other places. Maybe \n[SY] first they had a training at some place. They were taught to kill people,\n[SY] to hate Turks/Kurds? It seems so...\n\nThere is certainly a difference between the planned extermination of the\nArmenians of eastern Turkey beginning in 1915, with that of the Armeno-\nGeorgian conflicts of late 1918! The argument is not whether Armenians ever \nkilled in their collective existence, but rather the wholesale destruction of\nAnatolian Armenians under orders of the Turkish government. An Armenian-\nGeorgian dispute over the disposition of Akhalkalak, Lori, and Pambak after\nthe Turkish Third Army evacuated the region, cannot be equated with the\nextermination of Anatolian Armenians. Many Armenians and Georgians died\nin this area in the scramble to re-occupy these lands and the lack of\npreparation for the winter months. This is not the same as the Turkish \ngenocide of the Armenians nearly four years earlier, hundreds of kilometers\naway!\n\n[SY] Anyway, but after they killed/raped/... Turks and other muslim people\n[SY] around, people assumed that 'Armenians killed us, raped our women',\n[SY] not a particular group of people trained in some camps, maybe backed\n[SY] by some powerful states... After that step, you cannot explain these \n[SY] people not to hate all Armenians. \n\nI don't follow, perhaps the next paragraph will shed some light.\n\n[SY] So what am I trying to point out? First, at least for that region,\n[SY] you cannot blame Turks/Kurds etc since it was a self defense situation.\n[SY] Most of the Armenians, I think, are not to blame either. But since some\n[SY] people started that fire, it is not easy to undo it. There are facts.\n[SY] People cannot trust eachother easily. It is very difficult to establish\n[SY] a good relation based on mutual respect and trust between nations with\n[SY] different ethnic/cultural/religious backgrounds but it is unfortunately\n[SY] very easy to start a fire!\n\nAgain, the fighting between Armenians and Georgians in 1918/19 had little to\ndo with the destruction of the Armenians in Turkey. It is interesting that\nthe Georgian leaders of the Transcaucasian Federation (Armenia, Azerbaijan, \nand Georgia) made special deals with Turkish generals not to pass through \nTiflis on their way to Baku, in return for Georgians not helping the Armenians \nmilitarily. Of course, as Turkish troops marched across what was left of\nCaucasian Armenia, many Armenians went north and such population movement \ncaused problems with the locals. This is in no comparison with events 4 years \nearlier in eastern Anatolia. My father's mother's family escaped Cemiskezek -> \nErzinka -> Erzerum -> Nakhitchevan -> Tiflis -> Constantinople -> \nMassachusetts. \n\n[SY] My grandparents were *not* bloodthirsty people. We did not experience\n[SY] what they had to endure... They had to leave their lands, there were\n[SY] ladies, old ladies, all of her children killed while she forced to\n[SY] witness! Young women put dirt at their face to make themselves\n[SY] unattractive! I don't want to go into any graphic detail.\n\nMy grandmother's brother was forced to dress up as a Kurdish women, and paste\npotato skins on his face to look ugly. The Turks would kill any Armenian\nyoung man on sight in Dersim. Because their family was rather influential,\nlocal Kurds helped them escape before it was too late. This is why I am alive \ntoday.\n\n[SY] You may think that my sources are biased. They were biased in some sense.\n[SY] They experienced their own pain, of course. That is the way it is. But\n[SY] as I said they were living in peace with their neighbors before. Why \n[SY] should they become enemies?\n\n", "\nThe Greeks did try to invade Cyprus just before the Turkish intervention: They\nfailed. Just for your info. ", "\n\nTroglodytism does not necessarily imply a low cultural level.\nThe image-conscious Armenians sorely feel a missing glory in \ntheir background. Armenians have never achieved statehood and \nindependence, they have always been subservient, and engaged \nin undermining schemes against their rulers. They committed \ngenocide against the Muslim populations of Eastern Anatolia \nand Armenian Dictatorship before and during World War I and \nfully participated in the extermination of the European Jewry \nduring World War II. Belligerence, genocide, back-stabbing, \nrebelliousness and disloyalty have been the hallmarks of the \nArmenian history. To obliterate these episodes the Armenians \nengaged in tailoring history to suit their whims. In this zeal \nthey tried to cover up the cold-blooded genocide of 2.5 million \nTurks and Kurds before and during World War I.\n\nAnd, you don't pull nations out of a hat.\n\n\nSource: Walker, Christopher: \"Armenia: The Survival of a Nation.\"\n New York (St. Martin's Press), 1980.\n\nThis generally pro-Armenian work contains the following information\nof direct relevance to the Nazi Holocaust: \n\na) Dro (the butcher), the former Dictator of the Armenian Dictatorship and\nthe architect of the Genocide of 2.5 million Turks and Kurds, the most \nrespected of Nazi Armenian leaders, established an Armenian Provisional \nRepublic in Berlin during World War II; \n\nb) this 'provisional government' fully endorsed and espoused the social \ntheories of the Nazis, declared themselves and all Armenians to be members \nof the Aryan 'Super-Race;' \n\nc) they published an Anti-Semitic, racist journal, thereby aligning themselves \nwith the Nazis and their efforts to exterminate the Jews; and, \n\nd) they mobilized an Armenian Army of up to 20,000 members which fought side \nby side with the Wehrmacht.\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "and\n\nMentioning that Turkic people are wide-spread means desiring a Turkish empire?\nIs that the logical thing to conclude from a statement like that? \nTo me it just says that Turkey may have economical benefits from that\nif she can be competitive enough. No more than that. But of course\nyou have the freedom of extrapolating as you wish from any statement.\n\nOne question: In what context did Ozal use the words you are quoting?\nCan you give the whole speech. \n\n--\nTankut Atan\ntankut@iastate.edu", "Koc) responded to article <1993Apr22.152937.14766@urartu.sdpa.org> dbd@urartu.\n\n[DD] Problem 1\n[DD]\n[DD] My father told me the following story. During the famous wars between the \n[DD] Armenians and the Persians, prince Zaurak Kamsarakan performed \n[DD] extraordinary heroic deeds. Three times in a single month he attacked the \n[DD] Persian troops. The first time, he struck down half of the Persian army. \n[DD] The second time, pursuing the Persians, he slaughtered one fourth of the \n[DD] soldiers. The third time, he destroyed one eleventh of the Persian army. \n[DD] The Persians who were still alive, numbering two hundred eighty, fled to \n[DD] Nakhichevan. And so, from this remainder, find how many Persian soldiers \n[DD] there were before the massacre.\n\n[Koc] Answer: a(1-1/2-1/4-1/11)=280 -> a = 1760\n\nGood for you! You win the prize -- a free trip to Karabakh as an Azeri \nsoldier! Now, calculate the odds of you coming back after trying to de-populate\nthe area of Armenians!\n\n[Koc] Corollary: Armenians strike, slaughter, destroy, and massacre. After\n[Koc] all, they are not as innocent as the asala network claims.\n\nFact: I didn't notice any mention of Turks in Shirak, Van, or Trebizon in\n this seventh century story!\n\nFact: These places were filled with Armenians as of 1915.\n\nFact: By the end of 1916, after the Turkish genocide of the Armenians, there\n were no Armenians left in Shirak, Van, or Trebizon -- only Turks and\n Kurds! In fact, there were no Pontus Greeks left alive in Trebizon \n either!\n\nConclusion: Numbers don't lie in either case!\n\n ", " \nErmenistan kasiniyor...\n\nLet me translate for everyone else before the public traslation service gets\ninto it\t: Armenia is getting itchy. ", "\nImagine, you have been under seige for almost two months by an enemy which you\nbelieve wants to kill you. Suddenly, they pump tear gas into your building and\npunch holes in it with tanks. Then a fire breaks out. Do you run outside to\nbe slaughtered, or stay and face your fate.\n\nCheck Ethiopia vs. Italy in WWII for some answers to that question.", "\n\nThat is the result of living in an alternate universe with 'Arromdians'\nof the ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism and Revisionism Triangle. Are you '*ians'\nfor real?\n\nA Final Goodbye in Azerbaijan:\n\n[Photo by Associated Press]: \"At a cemetery in Agdam, Azerbaijan, family \nmembers and friends grieved during the burial of victims killed in the \nfighting in Nagorno-Karabagh. Chingiz Iskandarov, right, hugged the \ncoffin containing the remains of his brother, one of the victims. A copy \nof Koran lay atop the coffin.\"\nThe New York Times, 3/6/92\n\nFinal Embrace :\n\n[Photo by Associated Press]: \"Chingiz Iskenderov, right, weeps over \ncoffin holding the remains of his brother as other relatives grieve \nat an Azarbaijani cemetery yesterday amid burial of victims killed \nin fighting in Nagorno-Karabagh.\"\nThe Washington Post, 3/6/92\n\nNagorno-Karabagh Victims Buried in Azerbaijani Town :\n\n\"Refugees Claim Hundreds died in Armenian Attack...Of seven bodies seen \n here today, two were children and three were women, one shot through \n the chest at what appeared to be close range. Another 120 refugees \n being treated at Agdam's hospital include many with multiple stab \n wounds.\"\n Thomas Goltz\n The Washington Post, 2/28/92\n\nArmenians Burn Azeri Village in New Unrest:\n\n\"Armenian guerillas attacked a strategic Azeri village...in Nagorno-Karabagh \n and burned it to the ground on Tuesday, Commonwealth television reported. \n Channel one television said the village of Malybeili, in the Khodzhalin \n district, was now cut off and a large number of wounded were left stranded. \n Itar-Tass news agency said several people were killed and 20 wounded in \n the attack on the village... Tass also said shells fired from Armenian \n villages into the Azeri populated town of Susha, just 6 miles south of \n Stepenakert, demolished two houses and damaged five others...Fierce fighting \n flared two weeks ago following the crash of an Azeri helicopter in Karabagh \n in which 40 people died.\" (Reuters)\n Turkish Daily News, 2/12/92\n\nCIS Commander Pulls Troops Out of Karabagh :\n\n\"Elif Kaban, a Reuter correspondent in Agdam, reported that after a battle \n on Wednesday, Azeris were burying scores of people who died when Armenians \n overran the town of Khojaly, the second-biggest Azeri settlement in the \n area. 'The world is turning its back on what's happening here. We are dying \n and you are just watching,' one mourner shouted at a group of journalists.\"\n Helen Womack\n The Independent, 2/29/92\n\nArmenian Soldiers Massacre Hundreds of Fleeing Families:\n\n\"The attackers killed most of the soldiers and volunteers defending the \n women and children. They then turned their guns on the terrified refugees. \n The few survivors later described what happened: 'That's when the real \n slaughter began,' said Azer Hajiev, one of the three soldiers to survive. \n 'The Armenians just shot and shot. And they came in and started carving \n up people with their bayonets and knives.' A 45-year-old man who had been \n up on us and people were falling all around. My wife fell, then my child.\"\n Thomas Goltz\n Sunday Times, 3/1/92\n\nArmenian Raid Leaves Azeris Dead or Fleeing:\n\n\"...about 1,000 of Khojaly's 10,000 people were killed in Tuesdays attack. \n Azerbaijani television showed truckloads of corpses being evacuated from \n the Khocaly area.\"\n Brian Killen (Reuters)\n The Washington Times, 3/2/92\n\nAtrocity Reports Horrify Azerbaijan :\n\n\"Azeri officials who returned from the seen to this town about nine miles \n away brought back three dead children, the backs of their heads blown off...\n 'Women and children had been scalped,' said Assad Faradzev, an aide to \n Karabagh's Azeri governor. Azeri television showed pictures of one \n truckload of bodies brought to the Azeri town of Agdam, some with their \n faces apparently scratched with knives or their eyes gouged out.\"\n Brian Killen (Reuters)\n The Washington Times, 3/3/92\n\nMassacre By Armenians Being Reported:\n\n\"The Republic of Armenia reiterated denials that its militants had \n killed 1,000 [Azeris]... But dozens of bodies scattered over the \n area lent credence to Azerbaijani reports of a massacre.\"\n (Reuters)\n The New York Times, 3/3/92\n\nKillings Rife in Nagorno-Karabagh, Moldova:\n\n\"Journalists in the area reported seeing dozens of corpses, including some \n of the civilians, and Azerbaijani officials said Armenians began shooting \n at them when they sought to recover the bodies.\"\n Fred Hiatt\n The Washington Post, 3/3/92\n\nBodies Mark Site of Karabagh Massacre:\n\n\"A local truce was enforced to allow the Azerbaijanis to collect their dead \n and any refugees still hiding in the hills and forest. All are the bodies \n of ordinary people, dressed in the poor, ugly clorhing of workers. Of the 31 \n we saw only one policeman and two apparent national volunteers were wearing \n uniform. All the rest were civilians, including eight women and three small\n children. Two groups, apparently families, had fallen together, the children \n cradled in the women's arms. Several of them, including one small girl, had \n terrible head injuries: only her face was left. Survivors have told how they \n saw Armenians shooting them point blank as they lay on the ground.\"\n Anatol Lieven\n The Times (London), 3/3/92\n\nKarabagh Survivors Flee to Mountains:\n\n\"Geyush Gassanov, the deputy mayor of Khocaly, said that Armenian troops \n surrounded the town after 7 pm on Tuesday. They were accompanied by six \n or seven light tanks and armoured carriers. 'We thought they would just \n bombard the village, as they had in the past, and then retreat. But they \n attacked, and our defence force couldn't do anything against their tanks.' \n Other survivors described how they had been fired on repeatedly on their \n way through the mountains to safety. 'For two days we crawled most of the \n way to avoid gunfire,' Sukru Aslanov said. His daughter was killed in the \n battle for Khodjaly, and his brother and son died on the road.\"\n Anatol Lieven\n The Times (London), 3/3/92\n\nCorpses Litter Hills in Karabagh:\n\n\"As we swooped low over the snow covered hills of Nagorno-Karabagh we saw \n the scattered corpses. Apparently, the refugees had been shot down as \n they ran...Suddenly there was a thump...[our Azerbaijani helicopter] had \n been fired on from an Armenian anti-aircraft post...\"\n Anatol Lieven\n The Times (London), 3/4/92\n\n\"Police in western Azerbaijan said they had recovered the bodies of \n 120 Azerbaijanis killed as they fled an Armenian assault in the \n disputed enclave of Nagorno-Karabagh and said they were blocked from \n recovering more bodies.\"\n The Wall Street Journal, 3/4/92\n\nExiting Troops Attacked in Nagorno-Karabagh:\n\n\"Withdrawal halted; Armenians Blamed...\n More video footage and reports from Khocaly paint a grim picture of \n widespread civilian deaths and mutilation...\n One woman's feet appeared to have been bound...\"\n Paul Quinn-Judge\n The Boston Globe, 3/4/92\n\n (to be continued...)\n\nSerdar Argic", "\nDA] Armenia is involved in fighting with Azarbaijan. It is Armenian\nDA] soldiers from mainland Armenia that are shelling towns in Azarbaijan.\n\n\nAre you related to 'Arromdian' of ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism and Revisionism\nTriangle? If you feel that you can simply act as a fascist Armenian \ngovernmental crony in this forum you will be sadly mistaken and duly \nembarrassed. This is not a lecture to another historical revisionist \nand a genocide apologist, but a fact. This time, fascist x-Soviet Armenian \nGovernment will not get away with the genocide of 204,000 Azeri men, women \nand children. Not a chance.\n\n The SUNDAY TIMES 8 March 1992\n Morgues fill as Azeris head for all-out war\n -------------------------------------------\n Thomas Goltz, the first to report the massacre by Armenian soldiers in\n the worst violence since the breakup of the Soviet Union, reports from\n Agdam\n ------\n Khojaly used to be a barren town, with empty shops and treeless dirt\n roads. Yet it was still home to thousands of people who, in happier\n times, tended fields and flocks of geese. Last week it was wiped off\n the map.\n .......\n As sickening reports trickled in to the Azerbaijani border town of\n Agdam, and the bodies piled up in the morgues, there was little doubt\n that Khojaly and the stark foothills and gullies around it had been\n the site of the most terrible massacre since the Soviet Union broke\n apart.\n .......\n I was the last Westerner to visit Khojaly. That was in january and\n people were predicting their fate with grim resignation. Zumrut Ezoya,\n a mother of four on board the helicopter that ferried us into the\n town, called her community \"sitting ducks, ready to get shot\". She and\n her family were among the victims of the massacre on February 26.\n .......\n \"The Armenians have taken all the outlying villages, one by one, and\n the government does nothing.\" Balakisi Sakikov, 55, a father of five,\n said. \"Next they will drive us out or kill us all,\" said Dilbar, his\n wife. The couple, their three sons and three daughters were killed in\n the assault, as were many other people I had spoken to.\n ......\n \"It was close to the Armenian lines we knew we would have to cross.\n There was a road, and the first units of the column ran across then\n all hell broke loose. Bullets were raining down from all sides. we had\n just entered their trap.\"\n The azeri defenders picked off one by one. Survivors say that Armenian\n forces then began a pitiless slaughter, firing at anything moved in\n the gullies. A video taken by an azeri cameraman, wailing and crying\n as he filmed body after body, showed a grizzly trail of death leading\n towards higher, forested ground where the villagers had sought refuge\n from the Armenians.\n \"The Armenians just shot and shot and shot,\" said Omar Veyselov, lying\n in hospital in Agdam with sharapnel wounds. \"I saw my wife and\n daughter fall right by me.\"\n People wandered through the hospital corridors looking for news of the\n loved ones. Some vented their fury on foreigners: \" Where is my\n daughter, where is my son ?\" wailed a mother. \"Raped. Butchered. Lost.\"\n Azerbaijan has said as many as 1,000 refugees were killed as they\n tried to flee. The Armenians have denied this, saying the civilians\n were caught in \"crossfire\".\n .......\n\nSource: The Times, 2 March 1992.\n\nCORPSES LITTER HILLS IN KARABAKH\n\nANATOL LIEVEN COMES UNDER FIRE WHILE FLYING WITH AZERBAIJANI FORCES TO \nINVESTIGATE THE ALLEGED MASS KILLINGS OF REFUGEES BY ARMENIAN TROOPS...\n\nAs we swooped low over the snow-covered hills of Nagorno-Karabagh we saw \nthe scattered corpses. Apparently, the refugees had been shot down as \nthey ran. An Azerbaijani film of the places we flew over, shown to \njournalists afterwards, showed DOZENS OF CORPSES lying in various parts \nof the hills.\n\nThe Azerbaijanis claim that AS MANY AS 1000 have died in a MASS KILLING \nof AZERBAIJANIS fleeing from the town of Khodjaly, seized by Armenians \nlast week. A further 4,000 are believed to be wounded, frozen to death \nor missing... \n\nSeven of us squatted in the cabin of an Azerbaijani M24 attack helicopter \nas we flew to investigate the claims of the mass killings. Suddenly there \nwas a thump against the underside of the aircraft, a red flash of tracer \nripped past the starboard wing, and the helicopter rocked sharply. We \nswung round, and there was a deafening burst of fire from the cannon \nunder our wing as the helicopter crew returned fire.\n\nWe had been fired on from an Armenian anti-aircraft post. We swung round \nagain, tipped to starboard and appeared to dive straight down into a \nvalley. The brown earth swooped around our heads, the helicopter swung \nround again and followed the contours of the ground. Our cannon fired \nrepeated blasts.\n\nLater it emerged that a civilian helicopter that we had been escorting \nhad landed successfully at Nakhichevanik in the east of the disputed \nenclave of Nagorno-Karabakh, to pick up some of the dead. We had, in \nfact, been attacked both by ground fire and by an Armenian helicopter. \nI had seen the Armenian helicopter intermittently through the window, \nits cannons firing, but had thought - mistakenly - that it was on \n\"our side\". Our group of Western journalists had embarked on a \nsearch-and-rescue flight that had become a combat mission.\n\nOur flight consisted of the civilian passenger helicopter and two \nM24 Soviet attack helicopters in the Azerbaijani service, nicknamed \nflying crocodiles for their armour. Our party was in the second \ncrocodile. The civilian helicopter's job was to land in the mountains \nand pick up bodies at sites of the mass killings. The attack helicopters \nwere there to give covering fire if necessary.\n\nThe operation showed a striking sign of the disintegration of the Soviet \narmed forces because our pilot was a Russian officer. An Azerbaijani \nofficial told us that there were now five former Soviet military \nhelicopters -and their pilots- fighting for Azerbaijan. \"They have \nsigned contracts to fly for us,\" he said. The helicopter we engaged \nin combat was most probably flown by a brother-officer of our Russian \npilot, but fighting for the Armenians.\n\nWe had taken off just before 5pm on Saturday from Agdam airfield, an \nheated for the Armenian-controlled mountains of Karabakh, a sheer \nwhite wall in the distance. The civilian helicopter picked up four \ncorpses, and it was during this and a previous mission that an \nAzerbaijani cameraman filmed the several the several dozen bodies \non the hillsides. We then took off again in a hurry and speed back \ntowards Azerbaijani lines. Azerbaijani gunners on the last hill before \nthe plain - and safety - gazed up at us as we passed.\n\nBack at the airfield in Agdam, we took a look the bodies the \ncivilian helicopter had picked up. Two old men a small girl were \ncovered with blood, their limbs contorted by the cold and rigor \nmortis. They had been shot.\n\nWhat did our Russian pilot think of the tragedy, our close shave, \nand the war in Nagorno-Karabakh? He gave us CHEERFUL GRIN, POLITELY \nDECLINED TO ANSWER QUES TIONS, AND MARCHED OFF TO HIS DINNER.\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nLet us not forget the Nazi Armenians. Nazi Armenians were of service \nto Germans in Arab countries as well. As Uzun put it, one well-known \ncase which received a lot of media-coverage involved two Nazi Armenian \nagents which were dropped over Syria by Italian war planes. The mission \nof the agents was to mingle among the Armenian population in Syria and \nto acquire relevant information for the German Wehrmacht on the allied \nforces in the area.[1] Nazi Armenians also helped German propaganda \nefforts in Arab countries designed to promote pro-Nazi sentiments among \nthe French- and British-ruled Arab populations. Beirut had traditionally\nbeen strong-hold of the Nazi Armenians and until very recently it was\nthe center of international Armenian terrorism. \n\nIn Russia General Dro (the Butcher), the architect of the Turkish\ngenocide in WWI, was working closely with the German Secret \nService. He entered the war zone with his own men and acquired\nimportant intelligence about the Soviets. His experience with\nthe Turkish genocide in x-Soviet Armenia made him an invaluable \nsource for the Germans.[2]\n\n[1] Meyer, Berkian, ibid., p. 150. \n[2] Meyer, Berkian, ibid., p. 113; Patrick von zur Muehlen,\n ibid., p. 84.\n\nSerdar Argic", "Source: \"Men Are Like That\" by Leonard Ramsden Hartill. The Bobbs-Merrill\nCompany, Indianapolis (1926). (305 pages). \n(Memoirs of an Armenian officer who participated in the genocide of 2.5 \n million Muslim people)\n\n\np. 19 (first paragraph)\n\n\"The Tartar section of the town no longer existed, except as a pile of\n ruins. It had been destroyed and its inhabitants slaughtered. The same \n fate befell the Tartar section of Khankandi.\"\n\np. 22 (second paragraph)\n\n\"Many of our men had served in the Russian Army, and were trained soldiers.\n We Armenians were rich and possessed arms. Tartars had never received\n military training. They were poor, and possessed few arms beyond knives.\n Shortly after the killing of the Tartars in our village, the revolution\n in Russia was suppressed.\"\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\n\n\nThen you must be living in an alternate universe. Where were they?\n\n An Appeal to Mankind\n\nDuring the last three years Azerbaijan and its multinational\npopulation are vainly fighting for justice within the limits of\nthe Soviet Union. All humanitarian, constitutional human rights\nguaranteed by the UN Charter, Universal Declaration of Human\nRights, Helsinki Agreements, Human Problems International Forums,\ndocuments signed by the Soviet Union - all of them are violated.\n\nThe USSR's President, government bodies do not defend Azerbaijan\nthough they are all empowered to take necessary measures to\nguarantee life and peace.\n\nThe 140,000 strong army of Armenian terrorists with Moscow's\ntacit consent wages an undeclared war of annihilation against\nAzerbaijan. As a result, a part of Azerbaijan has been occupied\nand annexed, hundreds of people killed, thousands wounded.\n\nSome 200,000 Azerbaijanis have been brutally and inhumanly\ndeported from the Armenian SSR, their historical homeland.\nTogether with them 64,000 Russians and 22,000 Kurds have also\nbeen driven out, a part of them now settled in Azerbaijan.\nSome 40,000 Turkish-Meskhetians, Lezghins and representatives \nof other Caucasian nationalities who escaped from the Central\nAsia where the President and government bodies did not guarantee\nthem the life and peace also suffered from these deportations.\n\nOne of the scandalous vandalisms directed not only against\nAzerbaijan science but the world civilization as well is the\nArmenian extremists' destruction of the Karabakh scientific\nexperimental base of The Institute of Genetics and Selection \nof the Academy of Sciences of the Azerbaijan SSR.\n\nWe beg you for humanitarian help and political assistance,\nfor the honour and dignity of 7 million Azerbaijanis are\nviolated, its territory, culture and history are trampled,\nits people are shot. There is persistent negative image of\nAzerbaijanians abroad, and this defamation is spread over \nthe whole world by Soviet mass media, Armenian lobby in the\nUSSR and the United States. \n\nOne of the myths is that all events allegedly involves and\ngenerated by interethnic collisions and religious intolerance\nwhile the truth is that all these shootings and recent \nevents stem from the territorial claims of Armenia on\nAzerbaijan.\n\nIt is a well documented fact that before the conflict there\nwere no frictions between Armenians and Azerbaijanis on the\nissue of Karabakh. Hundreds and thousands Armenians placidly\nand calmly lived and worked in Azerbaijan land, had their\nrepresentatives in all government bodies of the Azerbaijan\nSSR.\n\nWe are for a united, indivisible, sovereign Azerbaijan, we \nare for a common Caucasian home proclaimed in 1918 by one\nof the founding fathers of the Azerbaijan Democratic \nRepublic - Muhammed Emin Rasulzade.\n\nBut all these goals and expectations are trampled upon the\nSoviet leadership in favour of the Armenian expansionists\nencouraged by Moscow and intended to create a new '1,000\nYear Reich' - the 'Great Armenia' - by annexing the \nneighboring lands.\n\nThe world public opinion shed tears to save the whales,\nsuffers for penguins dying out in the Antarctic Continent.\n\nBut what about the lives of seven million human beings?\nIf these people are Muslims, does it mean that they are\nless valuable? Can people be discriminated by their \ncolour of skin or religion, by their residence or other\nattributes?\n\nAll people are brothers, and we appeal to our brothers\nfor help and understanding. This is not the first appeal\nof Azerbaijan to the world public opinion. Our previous\nappeals were unheard. However, we still carry the hope\nthat the truth beyond the Russian and Armenian propaganda\nwill one day reveal the extent of our suffering and\nstimulate at least as much help and compassion for\nAzerbaijan as tendered to whales and penguins.\n\n\t\tTHE COMMITTEE FOR PEOPLE'S HELP TO \n KARABAKH (OF THE) ACADEMY OF SCIENCES \n OF THE AZERBAIJAN SSR\n\n\nBut perhaps Turkiye should intervene in the affairs of the Caucasus\nin the name of peace and democracy. The Armenians are Christians, the\nAzerbaijanis are Moslems, and Islam is a religion especially unloved\nby the democrat-westernizers. Besides, at the root of this conflict\nlie the territorial claims on Azerbaijan, a consequence of which\nwere the blood and suffering of innocent Azeri people, hundreds of\nthousands of refugees, and gross violations of human rights. \n\nRecently Armenians attacked the Azeri town of Khojaly and massacred\nthousands of Azeris. The Paris-based 'Association for Democracy and\nHuman Rights in Azerbaijan' puts the number of Khojali victims\nat 3,145. Some of the dead were scalped and mutilated. This whole\nthing has now gone entirely too far.\n\n\nThey already did. The scenario and genocide staged by the Armenians \n78 years ago in the Ottoman Empire is being reenacted again - this \ntime in Azerbaijan. There are remarkable similarities between the \nplots, the perpetrators, and the underdogs. \n\nReport taken from The New York Times, Tuesday, March 3, 1992\n\n MASSACRE BY ARMENIANS BEING REPORTED\n\n Agdam,Azerbaijan,March 2 (Reuters) - Fresh evidence emerged today \nof a massacre of civilians by Armenian militants in Nagorno-Karabakh, \na predominantly Armenian enclave of Azerbaijan.\n The republic of Armenia reiterated denials that its militants had killed\n1,000 people in the Azerbaijani populated town of Khojaly last week and \nmassacred men, women and children fleeing the carnage across snow-covered\nmountain passes.\n But dozen of bodies scattered over the area lent credence to Azerbaijani\nreports of a massacre.\n\n Scalping Reported\n Azerbaijani officials and journalists who flew briefly to the region\nby helicopter brought back three dead children with the back of their\nheads blown off. They said shooting by Armenians has prevented them \nfrom retrieving more bodies.\n \"Women and children have been scalped,\" said Assad Faradshev, an aide\nto Nagorno-Karabakh's Azerbaijani Governor. \"When we began to pick up bodies,\nthey began firing at us.\"\nare lying there like flocks of sheep. Even the fascists did nothing like this.\"\n \n Truckloads of Bodies\n Near Agdam on the outskirts of Nagorno-Karabakh, a Reuters photographer,\nFrederique Lengaigne, said she had seen two trucks filled with Azerbaijani\nbodies.\n \"In the first one I counted 35, and it looked as though there were as\nmany in the second,\" she said. \"Some had their head cut off, and many had\nbeen burned. They were all men, and a few had been wearing khaki uniforms.\n\nSerdar Argic", "\nThe following news from Turan News Agency in Baku-Azerbaijan\nis brought to you as a service of:\n\n \n P.O. Box 14571\n Berkeley, CA 94701\n FAX: (804) 490-3832\n Email: farid@mem.odu.edu\n\nP L E A S E make a hard copy of the news available to an Azerbaijani near you!\n//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////\nH E A D L I N E S |\n\n* THE NEW VICE-PREMIER PLANS TO INTENSIFY THE WORK ON THE ATTRACTION OF\n WESTERN INVESTMENTS \n* THE PROPOSAL TO SUMMON SPECIAL SESSION OF THE SUPREME SOVIET IS REJECTED\n AGAIN\n* THE PROSPECTS OF TRADE/ECONOMIC COOPERATION BETWEEN AZERBAIJAN AND ESTONIA \n* AZERBAIJAN DOES NOT INTEND TO JOIN THE CIS COMMON ECONOMIC ZONE \n* THE QUESTIONS OF GRANTING CREDIT TO AZERBAIJAN WILL BE DISCUSSED IN MOSCOW \n* AZERBAIJAN WILL REPLY TO THE SECOND VARIANT OF TRILATERAL INITIATIVE BY 26\n OF MAY \n* THE ANNOUNCEMENT OF THE PROSECUTOR OF THE REPUBLIC OF AZERBAIJAN \n* AZERBAIJAN'S PARLIAMENT INTENDS TO APPEAL TO RUSSIAN PARLIAMENT REGARDING\n THE SIX ACCUSED SOLDIERS\n* ARMENIANS ARE PREPARING MORE \"KARABAKHS\" ON THE NORTH CAUCASUS\n* STATE ASSISTANCE FOR NATIONAL MINORITY DEVELOPMENT\n* MEMORANDUM OF COOPERATION ON EXTRACTING OIL-GAS FIELDS OF AZERBAIJAN WAS\n SIGNED\n* ARMENIA TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THE PROSECUTION OF SIX RUSSIAN SOLDIERS \n* NEW PROVOCATIONS OF ARMED FORCES OF ARMENIA \n* \"UNOCAL\" COMPANY WILL BUILD 50 HOUSES FOR REFUGEES IN AZERBAIJAN \n* MANAT IS BEGINNING TO FALL IN VALUE \n* THE DISCUSSION OF PARLIAMENTARY ELECTION BILL WILL LAST TILL MID JULY \n* ISA GAMBAR SUGGESTS THAT AZERI-RUSSIAN PARLIAMENT COMMISSION FOR CLARIFYING\n THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE CRIMINAL CASE BE CREATED \n* WILL THE TRILATERAL INITIATIVE BE RUINED? \n* FATE OF 645 MILLION TONS OF OIL WILL BE DECIDED THIS SUMMER \n* THE SCIENTISTS-LAWYERS OF RUSSIA APPEALED TO THE PRESIDENT OF AZERBAIJAN\n* ARMENIAN ARTILLERY CONTINUES FIRING ON AZERI DISTRICTS\n* AZERI PRIME-MINISTER IS LEAVING FOR GREAT BRITAIN \n\n\nTHE NEW VICE-PREMIER PLANS TO INTENSIFY THE WORK ON THE ATTRACTION OF\nWESTERN INVESTMENTS\n\n BAKU (MAY 19) TURAN: Yesterday, Rasul Guliyev, the recently appointed\nVice-Premier of the republic, received the US ambassador in Azerbaijan,\nRichard Miles. As \"Azerbaijan\" newspaper informs, the issue of attraction\nof western investments in Azerbaijan was discussed in the meeting. In\nparticular, Gulyiev stated that western capital has to be investigated in\nthe most profitable spheres of manufacture. He also noticed, that the number\nof the priority manufactures will be released from debts. \nGuliyev also said that intensifying the activities of the American oil \ncompanies will promote the strengthening of the American-Azeri relations.\n\n\nTHE PROPOSAL TO SUMMON SPECIAL SESSION OF THE SUPREME SOVIET IS REJECTED AGAIN\n\n Baku (May 19) Turan: Yesterday, in the sitting of the Milli Mejlis,\nthe chairman, Isa Gambar, rejected the proposal of the deputy Arif\nRahimzade to summon a special session of the Supreme Soviet of Azerbaijan.\n This written proposal to summon a session was signed by 130 deputates. But\nthe chairman said that the signatures were invalid and the proposal couldn't\nbe submitted for discussion.\n Earlier, the leadership of the Milli Mejlis called the proposal to summon\na special session of the Supreme Soviet a coup attempt. But the deputy for\nthe Parliament, Rahimzade, doesn't consider that the deputates have the \nobjective of removing Milli Mejlis and its chairman from the power. It concerns the\nserious analysis of the social, economic and foreign policy activity of the\nrepublic's authority. Rahimzade said that the deputates for the Parliament,\nejected from their duties one year ago have the rights to express their opinion\non these questions.\n The Supreme Soviet of Azerbaijan (340 deputates) was dissolved one year ago,\nwhen it attempted to bring Ayaz Mutalibov back to the power.\n The functions of S.S. were handed over to Milli Mejlis, consisting of 50\ndeputates (25 \"democrats\" and 25 \"partocrates\"). At that time \"democrats\" and\n\"partocrates\" came to an agreement that Milli Mejlis wouldn't exist for a long \ntime and would be dissolved after parliamentary elections. At the same time,\nthe deputates ejected from their duties were guaranteed that they could summon\na session of the Supreme Soviet any time and went in for political activity out\nof the Parliament. --0--\n\n\nTHE PROSPECTS OF TRADE/ECONOMIC COOPERATION BETWEEN AZERBAIJAN AND ESTONIA\n\n Baku (May 19) Turan: The prospects of signing trade-economic agreement\nbetween Azerbaijan and Estonia were discussed in the meeting of the Foreign \nMinister Tofig Gasimov with the group of experts of the Ministry of Economics,\nMinister of Foreign Affairs and Estonian Bank administration on May 18. \nThe group of experts is headed by Tikht Reiman, the chief of the Ministry of\nEconomics of Estonia.\n The MIA of Azerbaijan informed Turan agency, that in their stay in Baku,\nthe delegation will also visit Ministry of Economics and National Bank of the\nrepublic.--0--\n\n\nAZERBAIJAN DOES NOT INTEND TO JOIN THE CIS COMMON ECONOMIC ZONE\n\n Baku (May 19) Turan: Deputy prime-ministers of the republic, Vahid\nAhmedov and Abbas Abbasov declared that Azerbaijan wouldn't join the CIS\ncommon economic zone.\n Vahid Ahmedov considers that the CIS economic zone proposal to create a \ncommon tax system contradicts independent economic policy of the republic. \nAccording to Abbas Abbasov, the pact of cooperation proposals, submitted for\nthe discussion of the leaders of CIS states in Moscow on May 14, has a number\nof unfavorable points for Azerbaijan.\n Such announcements of two deputy prime-ministers sound sensational on the\nbackground of the fact that the president of Azerbaijan and the chairman of\nthe Parliament noted the necessity of the republic on joining the CIS economic\nzone.--0--\n\n\nTHE QUESTIONS OF GRANTING CREDIT TO AZERBAIJAN WILL BE DISCUSSED IN MOSCOW\n\n Baku (May 19) Turan: Today, Azerbaijani delegation headed by the director\nof the foreign relation department of the Ministry of Finance of the republic\nalong with the representatives of the National Bank will leave for Moscow to\nhold consultation with Russian government on granting credit to Azerbaijan. \nAccording to the preliminary information, the credit will be 50 billion rubles.\n As press-centre of Ministry of Finance informed Turan's correspondent, \nprecise amount of the credit, conditions of its repay and a number of other\nquestions of mutual interest will be discussed in the course of the meeting in\nMoscow. It is known that this credit will be mostly used for mutual settling\nof industrial enterprises of Azerbaijan and Russia.\n When the sides reach the agreement, it is proposed for signing by the end \nof May.--0--\n\n\nAZERBAIJAN WILL REPLY TO THE SECOND VARIANT OF TRILATERAL INITIATIVE BY 26 OF\nMAY\n\n Baku (May 19) Turan: On the measures for peace presented by Russia,\nTurkey and the USA to Azerbaijan and Armenia, the representative of the\npresident of Azerbaijan in the talks on Nagorno-Karabakh, Asim Gasimov noted\nthat the plan was not seriously changed in comparison with the first variant.\n \"Just some comments to several points were added to the schedule by \ninsistence of the Armenian side. We do not intend to come back to the analysis\nof the schedule, because we have given a positive answer to it on May 6\",- said\nGasimov.\n The representative of the president of Azerbaijan informed that they just\nbegan to work on the examination of the commentary, and their answer would be \ngiven as requested by the authors of trilateral initiative by May 26.\n As it is known, the first variant of the peace measures was rejected by\nArmenia, which put forward a number of pre-conditions for its acceptance.--0--\n\n\nTHE ANNOUNCEMENT OF THE PROSECUTOR OF THE REPUBLIC OF AZERBAIJAN\n\n BAKU (MAY 20) TURAN: The Azerbaijani prosecutor's office has announced\nthat the Russian mass media's attempt to portray the 6 Russian soldiers \ncondemned by the military board of the Azerbaijani Supreme Court, as innocent\npeople is unjustified.\n Accounts of the witnesses and the confessions of the condemned themselves,\nprove that their crimes were committed together with the Armenian military units\nand with the knowledge of the headquarters of the Russian army unit, where they\nserved.\n The announcement points out that the attempts to represent these soldiers\nas ordinary mercenaries who have nothing to do with the Russian army are also \nunfounded. For there are irrefutable evidences that these soldiers were on the\nlist of one of the military unit's of Russian commandos in Yerevan.\n Certain Russian circles try to conceal the fact of direct participation of\nthe Russian army in the undeclared war of Armenia against Azerbaijan from the\nRussian community. Azerbaijan's prosecutor's announcement follows, that this\ntype of actions can make the situation in the region much more complicated.--0--\n\n\nAZERBAIJAN'S PARLIAMENT INTENDS TO APPEAL TO RUSSIAN PARLIAMENT REGARDING THE\nSIX ACCUSED SOLDIERS\n\n BAKU (MAY 20) TURAN: As Turan agency was informed, parliament of Azerbaijan\nis considering the question of appealing to Russian parliament about the six\naccused soldiers' fortune. In particular, the offer to send the representatives\nof the Commission on military affairs of the armed forces of Russian Federation\nto Baku for the detailed study of the results of six Russian soldiers' case will\nbe directed to Russian parliament.\n According to one of the supporters of this offer, such initiative will give\nRussian parliament the possibility to be convinced of the correctness of the\ninvestigation. There will also be a chance to discuss the reasons that have\ngiven rise to the present situation - that is the Russian troops participation\nin the war against Azerbaijan.\n\n\nARMENIANS ARE PREPARING MORE \"KARABAKHS\" ON THE NORTH CAUCASUS\n\n BAKU (MAY 20) TURAN: The National-liberation front founded by group of \nArmenians living on the North Caucasus appealed to establish Armenian autonomies\non the territories of Rostov, Stavropol and Krasnodar regions, - reported the\nnewspaper \"Russky vestnik\" on March 9, 1993 published in Geneva.\n The North Caucasus is regarded as an integral part of Armenia in the \ndocuments of this organization. Admitting the non-realizability of \"reunion\" of\nthe North Caucasus and \"Armenia proper\" at present, the front is appealing to \nthe UN, presidents of Russia, Armenia and the United States to consider the\nneed to establish Armenian autonomies on the Caucasus.\n To attain these goals, the Armenian organization considers it necessary to\ncarry out on the North Caucasus the forms and methods of activity \"identical to\nthose in Nagorno Karabakh\". Besides the decision to fund cells of Armenian\nnational-liberation fronts in every settlement and to appeal to leaders of\nArmenian terrorist groups in Greece and Iran to sent to the North Caucasus \ninstructors for training of Armenian youth to wage secret wars was adopted.\n Thus according to the newspaper \"Russky vestnik\", \"new Karabakhs\" are \nbeing planning on the North Caucasus. --O--\n\n\nSTATE ASSISTANCE FOR NATIONAL MINORITY DEVELOPMENT\n\n BAKU (MAY 20) TURAN: The meeting headed by the State secretary of\nAzerbaijan, Ali Kerimov, with the participation of the national cultural\ncenters was held in Baku. The first results of the realization of the president\nElchibey's decree on state assistance for the development of language and\nculture of national minorities adopted on September 16, 1992 were considered. \n The State secretary called this decree as an important step to establish a\nlegal democratic state. He confirmed once more the commitment of the leadership\nof Azerbaijan to set up a democratic society in which the rights of all \nnationalities and ethnic groups would be respected.\n The State Counsellor of the president of Azerbaijan on the national policy,\nHidayat Orujev, announced that in spite of the difficulties of the \"undeclared\nwar\" against the republic, the leaders of the state managed to solve many \nproblems concerning the satisfaction of cultural and other needs of the ethnic\ngroups. \n For today, all 33 national-cultural centers registered by the Ministry of\nJustice in the capital of Azerbaijan are provided with accommodation, furniture \nand means of communication. All the accommodations are rent-free ( 8 foreign\ndiplomatic missions in Baku are placed in the hotels because of the absence of\nfree accommodations including the representation of the UN General secretary). \n As it was noted, a great work was carried out since the decree was adopted\nto create conditions for total development of the ethnic groups. On the North of\nAzerbaijan where Lezghins live, a national Lezghin theater was opened, \nradiocast is transmitted in Lezghin. The work over the creation of the\neducational literature for Talyshs, Tats, Lezghins and Kurds and national\nteaching and scientific staff is being carried out in the Academy of Sciences\nof Azerbaijan.--O-- \n\n\nMEMORANDUM OF COOPERATION ON EXTRACTING OIL-GAS FIELDS OF AZERBAIJAN WAS SIGNED\n\n BAKU (MAY 20) TURAN: As Turan agency was informed in the State \nconcern \"Azerineft\", the Memorandum of understanding with the companies\n\"AMOCO Caspian Sea Petroleum\", \"Bi-Pi Exploration Operating\", \"Pennzoil\nCaspian\", \"Unocal Khazar Ltd.\", \"McDermott\" and Turkish oil corporation on\nmutual extracting of fields \"Azeri\", \"Chirag\" and \"Gyuneshli\" was signed. \nAccording to the memorandum, the general group on preparing of a common\nprogram of activity was created. \n According to the president of \"Azerineft\", Sabit Bagirov, cooperation\nwill provide for using the experience of foreign companies more efficiently. \n During the project, the main principles will be the effective use of\noil-gas resources, the rational sharing of investments, the reducing of\nexploitation expenditures and maximizing the profit of Azerbaijan from the\nexploitation of these fields. \nThe memorandum also envisions the necessity to take into account the historical\nand political-economical interests of Azerbaijan under optimum use of oil-gas\nfields. --O--\n\n\nARMENIA TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THE PROSECUTION OF SIX RUSSIAN SOLDIERS\n\n BAKU (MAY 21) TURAN: After Azerbaijani court passed sentence on \nsix Russian soldiers fighting on the Armenian side in Karabakh,\nArmenian propaganda has become actively involved.\n The Armenians living in Russia appealed to the president Yeltsin\nwith a request \"to display firmness in asserting the rights of Russian\nsoldiers\". At the same time, Armenian mass media call legal proceedings\non the case in Baku as \"a farce aimed at getting more arms from Russia\".\n The Karabakh Armenians have issued a threat recently. If one could\nbelieve the Yerevan agency \"Snark\", the Armenians in Karabakh presented\nan ultimatum to authorities in Azerbaijan. The essence of this ultimatum\nis that if Russian soldiers are not shown mercy, three Azeri prisoners in\nKarabakh will be shot dead.\n It is simple to explain such \"touching attitude of Armenians\" to\nthe six Russian soldiers' fate. If by chance the sentence is executed\nit will cause not anti-Azeri but anti-Armenian reaction, as the accused\nRussian soldiers were recruited in Yerevan by the former Defence Minister\nof Armenia and then transferred to Karabakh.\n If the soldiers get mercy, Armenian side will think highly of its\nsaving of lives of \"innocent Russians\". --O--\n\n\nNEW PROVOCATIONS OF ARMED FORCES OF ARMENIA\n\n BAKU (MAY 21) TURAN: According to the Defence Ministry of\nAzerbaijan on May 20-21, the firing on the territories of Azerbaijan\nfrom the military bases on the territory of Armenia was in progress.\n The day before, the villages of Kolly-Gyshlag, Shotaraz,\nNyachaflar of Zangelan district of Azerbaijan were under fire from\nKafan district of Armenia. Two inhabitants were wounded, there were\ndestructions in the villages.\n On May 20, the firing on the villages of Bashkend, Mutudere,\nShynykh, Novosaratovka and Novoivanovka of Kedabek district of\nAzerbaijan from the positions of Armenian armed forces was in\nprogress.\n At the same day the diversion group of the armed forces of\nArmenia (50-60 men) violated the frontier of Azerbaijan, penetrated\ninto the territory of Kedabek district of Azerbaijan, killed two\nshepherds at the village of Aili-Dara and made an attempt to take a\nflock across the frontier. Azeri frontier-guards stopped the enemy.--O--\n\n\n\"UNOCAL\" COMPANY WILL BUILD 50 HOUSES FOR REFUGEES IN AZERBAIJAN\n\n BAKU (MAY 21) TURAN: As Turan agency was informed by the\nrepresentation of UNOCAL American oil company, the leaders of this\ncompany decided to give 750 thousand dollars for the construction of\n50 houses for refugees.\n At present, the American side suggested a village project for \nconsideration by appropriate departments of Azerbaijan. The project\nis a farm village where each house has a personal lot, subsidiary\naccommodations and so on.\n According to the program the construction and putting into\noperation of the village will be this year. --O--\n\n\nMANAT IS BEGINNING TO FALL IN VALUE\n\n BAKU (MAY 21) TURAN: Lately, at the black market of Baku, the\nnational currency - Manat, fell in price compared with the Russian\nRuble. Thus one gives 1100 Rubles or 120 Manats for one US dollar.\nTaking into account the official exchange-value of the Manat with \nrespect to Ruble which is 1-10, the national currency fell in value\n10 percent. Meanwhile the exchange-value of the Manat to the Ruble is\nthe same at banks, state establishments and in trade.\n According to the representatives of the business circles and\nexperts, the present situation is explained by the fact that the rubles\nare bought by the local businessmen. They need rubles for financial\noperations in Russia. As the remittance of payments from the republics\nof the former USSR to Russia is a great problem now, many businessmen\narrange deals in cash. Taking into consideration the volume of business \nwith Russia, counted by billions, it is not hard to imagine how much \nRubles in cash the businessmen need. --O--\n\n\nTHE DISCUSSION OF PARLIAMENTARY ELECTION BILL WILL LAST TILL MID JULY\n\n Baku (May 22) Turan: According to the president's decree, the\nexpert group, including representatives of the Parliament and \npresidential apparatus, are working out new wording of the Constitution\nof the Republic of Azerbaijan. This must be adopted by Milli Mejlis before\nthe Parliamentary elections. Together with this, the work on the new\nConstitution, that would be, evidently, adopted by new Parliament of\nthe country, is going on. The newsmen were informed about the work on the\npress-conference of the Supreme Soviet of the republic the day before.\n Parliamentary legal experts, Safa Mirzoyev, Simran Hasanov and \nrepresentatives of the department of the president's apparatus Fazil Mustafaev\nand Shahin Aliev took part in the press-conference.\n The national discussion of the project of the Parliamentary\nelection law is going on at present. According to Simran Hasanov the bill\ndidn't cause any objections. It was noted, that until now, no alternative\nvariant of the election law was put forward.\n The newsmen were also informed, that Parliamentary commissions\nwill examine all coming proposals till June 10. By June 15 all\nproposals will be generalized and submitted for discussion in Milli Mejlis.--0--\n\n\nISA GAMBAR SUGGESTS THAT AZERI-RUSSIAN PARLIAMENT COMMISSION FOR \nCLARIFYING THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE CRIMINAL CASE BE CREATED\n\n BAKU (MAY 22) TURAN: The Chairman of the Milly Mejlis of the\nAzerbaijan republic, Isa Gambar, sent the return letter to the Chairman\nof the Russian Supreme Soviet Ruslan Khasbulatov in connection with\nthe conviction of the Russian servicemen lieutenant V.Semion, sergeant\nK. Tukish, M.Lisov and A.Filipov by the military college of the\nSupreme Court of Azerbaijan.\n In his letter, Isa Gambar suggested that the commission of Azerbaijan\nMilly Mejlis deputates on a par with the experts of the Russian Supreme\nSoviet be established to clarify the circumstances of this criminal\ncase. In his view, \"the conclusion of the commission could help in the \nobjective solving of this problem, as well as such kind of problems\nin the future. But the main thing is, it could help to promote the\nknowledge about involvement of the Russian servicemen in crime\".\n In its turn, in connection with the Russian parliament message,\nMilly Mejlis adopted a resolution on May 19, according to which the\npermanent commissions on government building and legal policy, human\nrights and international relations are charged with the exploration of\nthis problem.--0--\n\n\nWILL THE TRILATERAL INITIATIVE BE RUINED?\n\n Baku (May 22) Turan: As Turan agency was informed, Russian representative\nto the talks on Karabakh, Vladimir Kazimirov, doubted in realization of the \nTrilateral initiative. He expressed this opinion during a telephone talk with\nthe representatives of Azerbaijan. At the same talk he declared, that in case\nthe peace process deadlocked, Russia would pursue Yeltsin's initiative itself.\n Such statement from the Russian diplomat, who is one of the authors\nof the Trilateral initiative, suggests that the Russian leadership is\npaving the way for complete exclusion of the USA and probably Turkey from\nthe peacemaking process. This statement can also mean, that Russia and\nUS having achieved understanding on Bosnian problem, have agreed on partial\nUS departure from Transcaucasia.--0--\n\n\nFATE OF 645 MILLION TONS OF OIL WILL BE DECIDED THIS SUMMER\n\n Baku (May 22) Turan: The president of Azerbaijan State Oil Company,\nSabit Bagirov, declared recently that complete treaty on development of\noil fields Chirag, Azeri and Guneshli would be signed this summer.\nAs it is known, western oil companies AMOCO, BP-STATOIL, PENNZOIL-\nRAMCO have an interest on development of these three richest Caspian\nfields.\n According to the plan, SOCAR and BP-STATOIL are to sign a complete\ntreaty on development of Chirag field on June 16. Later AMOCO and\nPENNZOIL will sign treaties.\n Specialists value total reserves of these three fields to be 645\nmillion ton. 310 million of them fall on Azeri field, 180 mln.ton\non Geneshli and 150 mln.ton on Chirag.\n The exploitation of these fields is to last tens of years and it is to\nbring in Azerbaijan 100 billion dollars in revenue. In addition to the net\neconomic profit, Baku calculates upon the political support of the West in\nthe defence of its interests at the international scene.\n As president Elchibey said in his closest encirclement \"the May of\n1993 will be one of the most difficult periods for Azerbaijan and its\nindependence and we have to stand these tests\".--0--\n\nTHE SCIENTIST-LAWYERS OF RUSSIA APPEALED TO THE PRESIDENT OF AZERBAIJAN\n\n BAKU (MAY 22) TURAN: As the press-service of the president of Azerbaijan\ninforms, today, the appeal of the Institute of the Government and law of the\nRussian Academy of Sciences to president Elchibey was received.\nThe appeal contains the call \"to display mercy, humanism and clemency \non the death sentences of the former servicemen of the Russian Armed\nForces\".\n The authors of the appeal point out, that they don't justify the\nparticipation of the Russian servicemen in the war against the azeri people,\ndon't call in question the lawfulness of the passed sentence, denounce\nthe mercenary according to the UN principals, and they are sorry about the\nRussian servicemen being drawn in such grave crime.\n At the end of their letter, scientists, mentioning the soldiers'\nmothers' tears and grief, their praying day and night of safety, ask the\npresident of Azerbaijan to \"save those guys\".\n It should be noticed, that unlike lawyers, soldiers' mothers,\ntaking part in the inquiry, called the cause of their grief only\nRussian policy. According to their words, the leaders, that lay down\nlives of Russian men to achieve their political aims, must be made\nanswerable.\n Unfortunately, the appeal didn't mention the grief of the mothers\nof Azerbaijani soldiers, killed by sentenced Russian servicemen.--0--\n\n\nARMENIAN ARTILLERY CONTINUES FIRING ON AZERI DISTRICTS\n\n BAKU (MAY 22) TURAN: On May 22, two soldiers of National army of\nAzerbaijan were killed during the \"Grad\" shelling of the villages of\nKolly Gyshlag, Shaifly, Shotaraz, Nyachaflar of Zangelan district of\nthe republic from the territory of Kafan district of Armenia.\n The night before and in the morning of May 22, the villages of\nTovuz, Gazakh and Gubatly districts of Azerbaijan were under fire\nfrom the territory of Armenia. There are destructions. \n The situation in Agder district of Azerbaijan became complicated. \nOn May 21, the enemy fired on the regional centre of Agdere from the\nvillage of Ortakend. The transportation of man power and military equipment\nto this district is in progress. According to reports the enemy is setting\nup a new weapon emplacement to fire on the regional centre and near by\nvillages.\n According to the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the concentration\nof man power and military equipment is observed in Krasnoselsky\ndistrict of Armenia which borders on Azerbaijan as well as on the\nfrontier with Fizuli district. --O--\n\n\nAZERI PRIME-MINISTER IS LEAVING FOR GREAT BRITAIN\n\n BAKU ( MAY 22 ) TURAN : The Minister of Foreign Economic Relations,\nRauf Garayev, in his interview to Turan agency said, that\n\"Great Britain is the biggest foreign economic partner of Azerbaijan\nafter Iran\". The business cooperation between the two countries\ndevelops in such spheres as oil - industry, the manufacture of oil\nextraction equipment, communication and agriculture.\n According to the Minister's words, the forthcoming visit of\nAzerbaijani Prime-Minister, Panah Huseynov, to Great Britain on May\n23-24, is very important. It is expected, that the visit will\nhelp, to solve the problems of opening in Azerbaijan the branch\noffices of some British banks, insurance firms; to conclude\ncontracts on the sphere of manufacture of agricultural equipment; on\nbuilding in Azerbaijan off shore oil platforms, and reconstruction of the\nentire communication system of Azerbaijan.\n In Garayev's view, the expansion of the cooperation with Great Britain\nwill have a great political meaning for Azerbaijan.\n According to politicians and reviewers in Baku, at present, Great\nBritain as an European state is close to Azerbaijan. The continuation of\nthe economic and political cooperation of the two states is foreseen. --O--\n\n \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \n T U R A N N E W S A G E N C Y\n Baku - Azerbaijan \n Phone: (8922) 66-7977 66-7833\n Fax: (8922) 66-2009\n Telex: 142168 META SU\n \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\n \nSerdar Argic", "\nHenrik (?),\n\nYour ignorance manifests itself in an awkward form of intransigence. I'm not\ngoing to spend time to review with you the recent history of Cyprus. If you are\nreally interested, I can provide you with a number of references on the issue.\nJust send me EMail for that.\n\n\nRelax! You're swinging fists into open air... I was *agreeing* with you,\nassuming that would be one of your points that you did not state! You may \nnot be very much used to it, to be agreed with - that is, but take it more\neasily. !:-)\n \t\n\nNo, Henrik, believe me: You don't hope that.\n\n\nWas that after or before one French plane changed its route to avoid\ninspection??? \n\n--\nOnur Yalcin \noyalcin@iastate.edu", "\n[DD] Not taking sides leaves one in a state of perpetual indecision because \n[DD] both sides in this issue have their own logic at any given time. As an \n[DD] Armenian I am partisan -- by definition. However, this does give me the \n ^\n |\n obviously a \"not\" goes here--+ as \n evidenced by the context.\n\n[DD] license to lie, cover-up, or revise events under question as we have read \n[DD] on UseNet in postings by agents of the Turkish government. I understand \n[DD] both sides of the issue, but this does not mean I will advocate both sides\n[DD] when it suits me. Such a position would make me a hypocrite. I am also not\n[DD] being paid by agents of Turkey nor Azerbaijan as are many proponents of \n[DD] the Azeri side. I refer to agents such as Captioline International Group,\n[DD] Ltd., being paid in excess of $30,000/month by Azerbaijan. I state my case\n[DD] unencumbered by such advocacy or prostitution. \n\nThanks to Mr. CG.\n\n", "Accounts of Anti-Armenian Human Right Violations in Azerbaijan #013\n Prelude to Current Events in Nagorno-Karabakh\n\n +---------------------------------------------------------------------+\n | |\n | I said that on February 27, when those people were streaming down |\n | our street, they were shouting, \"Long live Turkey!\" and \"Glory to |\n | Turkey!\" And during the trial I said to that Ismailov, \"What does |\n | that mean, 'Glory to Turkey'?\" I still don't understand what Turkey |\n | has to do with this, we live in the Soviet Union. That Turkey told |\n | you to or is going to help you kill Armenians? I still don't |\n | understand why \"Glory to Turkey!\" I asked that question twice and |\n | got no answer . . . No one answered me . . . |\n | |\n +---------------------------------------------------------------------+\n\nDEPOSITION OF EMMA SETRAKOVNA SARGISIAN\n\n Born 1933\n Cook\n Sumgait Emergency Hospital\n\n Resident at Building 16/13, Apartment 14\n Block 5\n Sumgait [Azerbaijan]\n\n\nTo this day I can't understand why my husband, an older man, was killed. What \nwas he killed for. He hadn't hurt anyone, hadn't said any word he oughtn't \nhave. Why did they kill him? I want to find out--from here, from there, from \nthe government--why my husband was killed.\n\nOn the 27th, when I returned from work--it was a Saturday--my son was at home.\nHe doesn't work. I went straight to the kitchen, and he called me, \"Mamma, is \nthere a soccer game?\" There were shouts from Lenin Street. That's where we \nlived. I say, \"I don't know, Igor, I haven't turned on the TV.\" He looked \nagain and said, \"Mamma, what's going on in the courtyard?!\" I look and see so \nmany people, it's awful, marching, marching, there are hundreds, thousands, \nyou can't even tell how many there are. They're shouting, \"Down with the \nArmenians! Kill the Armenians! Tear the Armenians to pieces!\" My God, why is \nthat happening, what for? I had known nothing at that point. We lived together\nwell, in friendship, and suddenly something like this. It was completely \nunexpected. And they were shouting, \"Long live Turkey!\" And they had flags,\nand they were shouting. There was a man walking in front well dressed, he's \naround 40 or 45, in a gray raincoat. He is walking and saying something, I \ncan't make it out through the vent window. He is walking and saying something,\nand the children behind him are shouting, \"Tear the Armenians to pieces!\" and \n\"Down with the Armenians!\" They shout it again, and then shout, \"Hurrah!\" The \npeople streamed without end, they were walking in groups, and in the groups I \nsaw that there were women, too. I say, \"My God, there are women there too!\" \nAnd my son says, \"Those aren't women, Mamma, those are bad women.\" Well we \ndidn't look a long time. They were walking and shouting and I was afraid, I \nsimply couldn't sit still. I went out onto the balcony, and my Azerbaijani \nneighbor is on the other balcony, and I say, \"Khalida, what's going on, what \nhappened?\" She says, \"Emma, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know what \nhappened.\" Well she was quite frightened too. They had these white sticks, \neach second or third one had a white rod. They're waving the rods above their \nheads as they walk, and the one who's out front, like a leader, he has a white\nstick too. Well maybe it was an armature shaft, but what I saw was white, I \ndon't know.\n\nMy husband got home 10 or 15 minutes later. He comes home and I say, \"Oh \ndear, I'm frightened, they're going to kill us I bet.\" And he says, \"What are \nyou afraid of, they're just children.\" I say, \"Everything that happens comes \nfrom children.\" There had been 15- and 16-year kids from the Technical and \nVocational School. \"Don't fear,\" he said, \"it's nothing, nothing all that \nbad.\" He didn't eat, he just lay on the sofa. And just then on television they\nbroadcast that two Azerbaijanis had been killed in Karabakh, near Askeran. \nWhen I heard that I couldn't settle down at all, I kept walking here and \nthere and I said, \"They're going to kill us, the Azerbaijanis are going to \nkill us.\" And he says, \"Don't be afraid.\" Then we heard--from the central \nsquare, there are women shouting near near the stage, well, they're shouting\ndifferent things, and you couldn't hear every well. I say, \"You speak\nAzerbaijani well, listen to what they're saying.\" He says \"Close the window\nand go to bed, there s nothing happening there.\" He listened a bit and then \nclosed the window and went to bed, and told us, \"Come on, go to sleep, it's\nnothing.\" Sleep, what did he mean sleep? My Son and I stood at the window\nuntil two in the morning watching. Well he's sick, and all of this was\naffecting him. I say, \"Igor, you go to bed, I'm going to go to bed in a minute\ntoo.\" He went and I sat at the window until three, and then went to bed. \nThings had calmed down slightly.\n\nThe 28th, Sunday, was my day off. My husband got up and said, \"Come on, Emma, \nget up.\" I say, \"Today's my day off, let me rest.\" He says, \"Aren't you going \nto make me some tea?\" Well I felt startled and got up, and said, \"Where are \nyou going?\" He says, \"I'm going out, I have to.\" I say, \"Can you really go \noutside on a day like today? Don't go out, for God's sake. You never listen to\nme, I know, and you're not going to listen to me now, but at least don't take \nthe car out of the garage, go without the car.\" And he says, \"Come on, close \nthe door!\" And then on the staircase he muttered something, I couldn't make it\nout, he probably said \"coward\" or something.\n\nI closed the door and he left. And I started cleaning . . . picking things up\naround the house . . . Everything seemed quiet until one o'clock in the after-\nnoon, but at the bus station, my neighbor told me, cars were burning. I said,\n\"Khalida, was it our car?\" She says, \"No, no, Emma, don't be afraid, they\nwere government cars and Zhigulis.'' Our car is a GAZ-21 Volga. And I waited,\nit was four o'clock, five o'clock . . . and when he wasn't home at seven I\nsaid, \"Oh, they've killed Shagen!\"\n\nTires are burning in town, there's black smoke in town, and I'm afraid, I'm \nstanding on the balcony and I'm all . . . my whole body is shaking. My God, \nthey've probably killed him! So basically I waited like that until ten \no'clock and he still hadn't come home. And I'm afraid to go out. At ten\no'clock I look out: across from our building is a building with a bookstore,\nand from upstairs, from the second floor, everything is being thrown outside. \nI'm looking out of one window and Igor is looking out of the other, and I \ndon't want him to see this, and he, as it turns out, doesn't want me to see \nit. We wanted to hide it from one another. I joined him. \"Mamma,\" he says,\n\"look what they're doing over there!\" They were burning everything, and there \nwere police standing there, 10 or 15 of them, maybe twenty policemen standing \non the side, and the crowd is on the other side, and two or three people are \nthrowing everything down from the balcony. And one of the ones on the balcony \nis shouting, \"What are you standing there for, burn it!\" When they threw the \ntelevision, wow, it was like a bomb! Our neighbor on the third floor came out \non her balcony and shouted, \"Why are you doing that, why are you burning those\nthings, those people saved with such difficulty to buy those things for their \nhome. Why are you burning them?\" And from the courtyard they yell at her, \"Go \ninside, go inside! Instead why don't you tell us if they are any of them in \nyour building or not?\" They meant Armenians, but they didn't say Armenians, \nthey said, \"of them.\" She says, \"No, no, no, none!\" Then she ran downstairs to\nour place, and says, \"Emma, Emma, you have to leave!\" I say, \"They've killed\nShagen anyway, what do we have to live for? It won't be living for me without \nShagen. Let them kill us, too!\" She insists, saying, \"Emma, get out of here, \ngo to Khalida's, and give me the key. When they come I'll say that it's my \ndaughter's apartment, that they're off visiting someone.\" I gave her the key \nand went to the neighbor's, but I couldn't endure it. I say, \"Igor, you stay \nhere, I'm going to go downstairs, and see, maybe Papa's . . . Papa's there.\"\n\nMeanwhile, they were killing the two brothers, Alik and Valery [Albert and \nValery Avanesians; see the accounts of Rima Avanesian and Alvina Baluian], in \nthe courtyard. There is a crowd near the building, they're shouting, howling, \nand I didn't think that they were killing at the time. Alik and Valery lived\nin the corner house across from ours. When I went out into the courtyard I saw\nan Azerbaijani, our neighbor, a young man about 30 years old. I say, \"Madar, \nUncle Shagen's gone, let's go see, maybe he's dead in the garage or near the \ngarage, let's at least bring the corpse into the house. \"He shouts, \"Aunt \nEmma, where do you think you're going?! Go back into the house, I'll look for \nhim.\" I say, \"Something will happen to you, too, because of me, no, Madar, \nI'm coming too.\" Well he wouldn't let me go all the same, he says, \"You stay \nhere with us, I'm go look.\" He went and looked, and came back and said, \"Aunt \nEmma, there's no one there, the garage is closed. \"Madar went off again and \nthen returned and said, \"Aunt Emma, they're already killed Alik, and Valery's \nthere . . . wheezing.\"\n\nMadar wanted to go up to him, but those scoundrels said, \"Don't go near him, \nor we'll put you next to him.\" He got scared--he's young--and came back and \nsaid, \"I'm going to go call, maybe an ambulance will come, at least to take \nAlik, maybe he'll live . . . \" They grew up together in our courtyard, they \nknew each other well, they had always been on good terms. He went to call, but\nnot a single telephone worked, they had all been shut off. He called, and \ncalled, and called, and called--nothing.\n\nI went upstairs to the neighbor's. Igor says, \"Two police cars drove up over \nthere, their headlights are on, but they're not touching them, they are still \nlying where they were, they're still lying there . . . \"We watched out the\nwindow until four o'clock, and then went downstairs to our apartment. I didn't\ntake my clothes off. I lay on the couch so as not to go to bed, and at six\no'clock in the morning I got up and said, \"Igor, you stay here at home, don't\ngo out, don't go anywhere, I'm going to look, I have to find Papa, dead or\nalive . . . let me go . . . I've got the keys from work.\"\n\nAt six o'clock I went to the Emergency Hospital. The head doctor and another \ndoctor opened the door to the morgue. I run up to them and say, \"Doctor, is \nShagen there?\" He says, \"What do you mean? Why should Shagen be here?!\" I \nwanted to go in, but he wouldn't let me. There were only four people in there,\nthey said. Well, they must have been awful because they didn't let me in. They\nsaid, \"Shagen's not here, he's alive somewhere, he'll come back.\"\n\nIt's already seven o'clock in the morning. I look and there is a panel truck\nwith three policemen. Some of our people from the hospital were there with\nthem. I say, \"Sara Baji [\"Sister\" Sara, term of endearment], go look, they've\nprobably brought Shagen.\" I said it, shouted it, and she went and came back\nand says, \"No, Emma, he has tan shoes on, it's a younger person.\" Now Shagen \njust happened to have tan shoes, light tan, they were already old. When they \nsaid it like that I guessed immediately. I went and said, \"Doctor, they've \nbrought Shagen in dead.\" He says, \"Why are you carrying on like that, dead, \ndead . . . he's alive.\" But then he went all the same, and when he came back \nthe look on his face was . . . I could tell immediately that he was dead. They\nknew one another well, Shagen had worked for him a long time. I say, \"Doctor, \nis it Shagen?\" He says, \"No, Emma, it's not he, it's somebody else entirely.\" \nI say, \"Doctor, why are you deceiving me, I'll find out all the same anyway, \nif not today, then tomorrow.\" And he said . . . I screamed, right there in the\noffice. He says, \"Emma, go, go calm down a little.\" Another one of our \ncolleagues said that the doctor had said it was Shagen, but . . . in hideous \ncondition. They tried to calm me down, saying it wasn't Shagen. A few minutes \nlater another colleague comes in and says, \"Oh, poor Emma!\" When she said it \nlike that there was no hope left.\n\n That day was awful. They were endlessly bringing in dead and injured \npeople.\n\nAt night someone took me home. I said, \"Igor, Papa's been killed.\"\n\nOn the morning of the 1st I left Igor at home again and went to the hospital: \nI had to bury him somehow, do something. I look and see that the hospital is \nsurrounded by soldiers. They are wearing dark clothes. \"Hey, citizen, where \nare you going?\" I say, \"I work here,\" and from inside someone shouts, \"Yes, \nyes, that's our cook, let her in.\" I went right to the head doctor's office\nand there is a person from the City Health Department there, he used to\nwork with us at the hospital. He says, \"Emma, Shagen's been taken to Baku.\nIn the night they took the wounded and the dead, all of them, to Baku.\" I\nsay, \"Doctor, how will I bury him?\" He says, \"We're taking care of all that,\ndon't you worry, we'll do everything, we'll tell you about it. Where did you\nspend the night?\" I say, \"I was at home.\" He says, \"What do you mean you\nwere at home?! You were at home alone?\" I say, \"No, Igor was there too.\" He\nsays, \"You can't stay home, we're getting an ambulance right now, wait just\none second, the head doctor is coming, we're arranging an ambulance right\nnow, you put on a lab coat and take one for Igor, you go and bring Igor here\nlike a patient, and you'll stay here and we'll se~ later what to do next ...\"\nHis last name is Kagramanov. The head doctor's name is Izyat Jamalogli\nSadukhov.\n\nThe \"ambulance\" arrived and I went home and got Igor. They admitted him as a \npatient, they gave us a private room, an isolation room. We stayed in the \nhospital until the 4th.\n\nSome police car came and they said, \"Emma, let's go.\" And the women, our \ncolleagues, then they saw the police car, became anxious and said, \"Where are \nyou taking her?\" I say, \"They're going to kill me, too . . . \" And the\ninvestigator says, \"Why are you saying that, we're going to make a positive\nidentification.\" We went to Baku and they took me into the morgue . . . I\nstill can't remember what hospital it was . . . The investigator says, \"Let's \ngo, we need to be certain, maybe it's not Shagen.\" And when I saw the caskets,\nlying on top of one another, I went out of my mind. I say, \"I can't look, no.\"\nThe investigator says, \"Are there any identifying marks?\" I say, \"Let me see\nthe clothes, or the shoes, or even a sock, I'll recognize them.\" He says, \n\"Isn't they're anything on his body?\" I say he has seven gold teeth and his \nfinger, he only has half of one of his fingers. Shagen was a carpenter, he had\nbeen injured at work . . .\n\nThey brought one of the sleeves of the shirt and sweater he was wearing, they \nbrought them and they were all burned . . . When I saw them I shouted, \"Oh, \nthey burned him!\" I shouted, I don't know, I fell down . . . or maybe I sat \ndown, I don't remember. And that investigator says, \"Well fine, fine, since \nwe've identified that these are his clothes, and since his teeth . . . since\nhe has seven gold teeth . . . \"\n\nOn the 4th they told me: \"Emma, it's time to bury Shagen now.\" I cried, \"How, \nhow can I bury Shagen when I have only one son and he's sick? I should inform \nhis relatives, he has three sisters, I can't do it by myself.\" They say, \"OK, \nyou know the situation. How will they get here from Karabagh? How will they \nget here from Yerevan? There's no transportation, it s impossible.\"\n\nHe was killed on February 28, and I buried him on March 7. We buried him in \nSumgait. They asked me, \"Where do you want to bury him?\" I said, \"I want to \nbury him in Karabagh, where we were born, let me bury him in Karabagh,\" I'm \nshouting, and the head of the burial office, I guess, says, \"Do you know what \nit means, take him to Karabagh?! It means arson!\" I say, \"What do you mean, \narson? Don't they know what's going on in Karabagh? The whole world knows that\nthey killed them, and I want to take him to Karabagh, I don't have anyone \nanymore.\" I begged, I pleaded, I grieved, I even got down on my knees. He\nsays, \"Let's bury him here now, and in three months, in six months, a year, \nif it calms down, I'll help you move him to Karabagh . . . \"\n\nOur trial was the first in Sumgait. It was concluded on May 16. At the\ninvestigation the murderer, Tale Ismailov, told how it all happened, but then\nat the trial he . . . tried to wriggle . . . he tried to soften his crime. \nThen they brought a videotape recorder, I guess, and played it, and said, \n\"Ismailov, look, is that you?\" He says, \"Yes.\" \"Well look, here you're \ndescribing everything as it was on the scene of the crime, right?\" He says, \n\"Yes.\" \"And now you're telling it differently?\" He says, \"Well maybe I \nforgot!\" Like that.\n\nThe witnesses and that criminal creep himself said that when the car was going\nalong Mir Street, there was a crowd of about 80 people . . . Shagen had a \nVolga GAZ-21. The 80 people surrounded his car, and all 80 of them were \ninvolved. One of them was this Ismailov guy, this Tale. They--it's unclear\nwho--started pulling Shagen out of the car. Well, one says from the left side\nof the car, another says from the right side. They pulled off his sports \njacket. He had a jacket on. Well they ask him, \"What's your nationality?\" He \nsays, \"Armenian.\" Well they say from the crowd they shouted, \"If he's an\nArmenian, kill him, kill him!\" They started beating him, they broke seven of\nhis ribs, and his heart . . . I don't know, they did something there, too \n. . . it's too awful to tell about. Anyway, they say this Tale guy . . . he \nhad an armature shaft. He says, \"I picked it up, it was lying near a bush, \nthat's where I got it.\" He said he picked it up, but the witnesses say that he\nhad already had it. He said, \"I hit him twice,\" he said, \" . . . once or twice\non the head with that rod.\" And he said that when he started to beat him \nShagen was sitting on the ground, and when he hit him he fell over. He said, \n\"I left, right nearby they were burning things or something in an apartment,\nkilling someone,\" he says, \"and I came back to look, is that Shagen alive or\nnot?\" I said, \"You wanted to finish him, right, and if he was still alive, you\ncame back to hit him again?\" He went back and looked and he was already dead.\n\"After that,\" that bastard Tale said, \"after that I went home.\"\n\nI said, \"You . . . you . . . little snake,\" I said, \"Are you a thief and a \nmurderer?\" Shagen had had money in his jacket, and a watch on his wrist. They\nwere taken. He says he didn't take them\n\nWhen they overturned and burned the car, that Tale was no longer there, it was\nother people who did that. Who it was, who turned over the car and who burned\nit, that hasn't been clarified as yet. I told the investigator, \"How can you \nhave the trial when you don't know who burned the car?\" He said something, but\nI didn't get what he was saying. But I said, \"You still haven't straightened \neverything out, I think that's unjust.\"\n\nWhen they burned the car he was lying next to it, and the fire spread to him. \nIn the death certificate it says that he had third-degree burns over 80\npercent of his body . . .\n\nAnd I ask again, why was he killed? My husband was a carpenter; he was a good \ncraftsman, he knew how to do everything, he even fixed his own car, with his \nown hands. We have three children. Three sons. Only Igor was with me at the \ntime. The older one was in Pyatigorsk, and the younger one is serving in the \nArmy. And now they're fatherless...\n\nI couldn't sit all the way through it. When the Procurator read up to 15\nyears' deprivation of freedom, I just . . . I went out of my mind, I didn't\nknow what to do with myself, I said, \"How can that be? You,\" I said, \"you are \nsaying that it was intentional murder and the sentence is 15 years' \ndeprivation of freedom?\" I screamed, I had my mind! I said, \"Let me at that\ncreep, with my bare hands I'll . . . \" A relative restrained me, and there\nwere all those military people there . . . I lest. I said,\" This isn't a \nSoviet trial, this is unjust!\" That's what I shouted, l said it and left . . .\n\nI said that on February 27, when those people were streaming down our street, \nthey were shouting, \"Long live Turkey!\" and \"Glory to Turkey!\" And during the \ntrial I said to that Ismailov, \"What does that mean, 'Glory to Turkey'?\" I \nstill don't understand what Turkey has to do with this, we live in the Soviet \nUnion. That Turkey told you to or is going to help you kill Armenians? I still\ndon't understand why \"Glory to Turkey!\" I asked that question twice and got no\nanswer . . . No one answered me . . .\n\n May 19, 1988\n Yerevan\n\n\t\t - - - reference - - -\n\n[1] _The Sumgait Tragedy; Pogroms against Armenians in Soviet Azerbaijan,\n Volume I, Eyewitness Accounts_, edited by Samuel Shahmuradian, forward by\n Yelena Bonner, 1990, published by Aristide D. Caratzas, NY, pages 178-184\n\n", "\n\nOboy, this is exciting. First you discuss your non-existent literature\ntastes, then your fantasies, and now your choices of historical revisionism.\nAre you related to 'Arromdians' of the ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism and\nRevisionism Triangle?\n\nThe Agreement on the Exchange of Minorities uses the term 'Turks,' \nwhich demonstrates what is actually meant by the previous reference \nto 'Muslims.' The fact that the Greek governments also mention the \nexistence of a few thousand non-Turkish Muslims does not change the \nessential reality that there lives in Western Thrace a much bigger \nTurkish minority. The 'Pomaks' are also a Muslim people, whom all the \nthree nations (Bulgarians, Turks, and Greeks) consider as part of \nthemselves. Do you know how the Muslim Turkish minority was organized \naccording to the agreements? \n\nIt also proves that the Turkish people are trapped in Greece \nand the Greek people are free to settle anywhere in the world.\nThe Greek authorities deny even the existence of a Turkish\nminority. They pursue the same denial in connection with \nthe Macedonians of Greece. Talk about oppression. In addition,\nin 1980 the 'democratic' Greek Parliament passed Law No. 1091,\nvirtually taking over the administration of the vakiflar and\nother charitable trusts. They have ceased to be self-supporting\nreligious and cultural entities. Talk about fascism. The Greek \ngovernments are attempting to appoint the muftus, irrespective\nof the will of the Turkish minority, as state official. Although\nthe Orthodox Church has full authority in similar matters in\nGreece, the Muslim Turkish minority will have no say in electing\nits religious leaders. Talk about democracy.\n\nThe government of Greece has recently destroyed an Islamic \nconvention in Komotini. Such destruction, which reflects an \nattitude against the Muslim Turkish cultural heritage, is a \nviolation of the Lausanne Convention as well as the 'so-called' \nGreek Constitution, which is supposed to guarantee the protection \nof historical monuments. \n\nThe government of Greece, on the other hand, is building new \nchurches in remote villages as a complementary step toward \nHellenizing the region.\n\nThe longstanding use of the adjective 'Turkish' in titles\nand on signboards is prohibited. The Greek courts have\nordered the closure of the Turkish Teachers' Association, \nthe Komotini Turkish Youth Association and the Ksanti \nTurkish Association on grounds that there are no Turks\nin Western Thrace. Such community associations had been \nactive until 1984. But they were first told to remove\nthe word 'Turkish' on their buildings and on their official\npapers and then eventually close down. This is also the \nfinal verdict (November 4, 1987) of the Greek High Court.\n\nHelsinki Watch, a well-known Human Rights group, had been investigating \nthe plight of the Turkish Minority in Greece. In August 1990, their \nfindings were published in a report titled \n\n 'Destroying Ethnic Identity: Turks of Greece.'\n\nThe report confirmed gross violations of the Human Rights of the \nTurkish minority by the Greek authorities. It says for instance, \nthe Greek government recently destroyed an Islamic convent in \nKomotini. Such destruction, which reflects an attitude against \nthe Muslim Turkish cultural heritage, is a violation of the \nLausanne Convention. \n\n\nHELSINKI WATCH: \"PROBLEMS OF TURKS IN WESTERN THRACE CONTINUE\"\n\nAnkara (A.A) In a 15-page report of the \"Helsinki Watch\" it is\nstated that the Turkish minority in Western Thrace is still faced\nwith problems and stipulated that the discriminatory policy being\nimplemented by the Greek Government be brought to an end.\n\nThe report on Western Thrace emphasized that the Greek government\nshould grant social and political rights to all the members of\nminorities that are equal to those enjoyed by Greek citizens and\nin addition they must recognize the existence of the \"Turkish\nMinority\" in Western Thrace and grant them the right to identify\nthemselves as 'Turks'.\n\nNEWSPOT, May 1992\n\n\nGREECE ISOLATES WEST THRACE TURKS\n\nThe Xanthi independent MP Ahmet Faikoglu said that the Greek\nstate is trying to cut all contacts and relations of the Turkish\nminority with Turkey.\n\nPointing out that while the Greek minority living in Istanbul is\ncalled \"Greek\" by ethnic definition, only the religion of the\nminority in Western Thrace is considered. In an interview with\nTurkish origin. The individuals of the minority living in Western\nTrace are also Turkish.\"\n\nEmphasizing the education problem for the Turkish minority in\nWestern Thrace Faikoglu said that according to an agreement\nsigned in 1951 Greece must distribute textbooks printed in Turkey\nin Turkish minority schools in Western Thrace.\n\nRecalling his activities and those of Komotini independent MP Dr.\nSadIk Ahmet to defend the rights of the Turkish minority,\nFaikoglu said. \"In fact we helped Greece. Because we prevented\nGreece, the cradle of democracy, from losing face before European\ncountries by forcing the Greek government to recognize our legal\nrights.\"\n\nOn Turco-Greek relations, he pointed out that both countries are\npredestined to live in peace for geographical and historical\nreasons and said that Turkey and Greece must resist the foreign\npowers who are trying to create a rift between them by\ncooperating, adding that in Turkey he observed that there was\nwill to improve relations with Greece.\n\nNEWSPOT, January 1993\n\n\nMACEDONIAN HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVISTS TO FACE TRIAL IN GREECE.\n\nTwo ethnic Macedonian human rights activists will face trial in\nAthens for alleged crimes against the Greek state, according to a\nCourt Summons (No. 5445) obtained by MILS.\n\n Hristos Sideropoulos and Tashko Bulev (or Anastasios Bulis)\nhave been charged under Greek criminal law for making comments in\nan Athenian magazine.\n\n Sideropoulos and Bulev gave an interview to the Greek weekly\nmagazine \"ENA\" on March 11, 1992, and said that they as\nMacedonians were denied basic human rights in Greece and would\nfield an ethnic Macedonian candidate for the up-coming Greek\ngeneral election.\n\n Bulev said in the interview: \"I am not Greek, I am Macedonian.\"\nSideropoulos said in the article that \"Greece should recognise\nMacedonia. The allegations regarding territorial aspirations\nagainst Greece are tales... We are in a panic to secure the\nborder, at a time when the borders and barriers within the EEC\nare falling.\"\n\n The main charge against the two, according to the court\nsummons, was that \"they have spread...intentionally false\ninformation which might create unrest and fear among the\ncitizens, and might affect the public security or harm the\ninternational interests of the country (Greece).\"\n\n The Greek state does not recognise the existence of a\nMacedonian ethnicity. There are believed to be between 350,000 to\n1,000,000 ethnic Macedonians living within Greece, largely\nconcentrated in the north. It is a crime against the Greek state\nif anyone declares themselves Macedonian.\n\n In 1913 Greece, Serbia-Yugoslavia and Bulgaria partioned\nMacedonia into three pieces. In 1919 Albania took 50 Macedonian\nvillages. The part under Serbo-Yugoslav occupation broke away in\n1991 as the independent Republic of Macedonia. There are 1.5\nmillion Macedonians in the Republic; 500,000 in Bulgaria; 150,000\nin Albania; and 300,000 in Serbia proper.\n\n Sideropoulos has been a long time campaigner for Macedonian\nhuman rights in Greece, and lost his job as a forestry worker a\nfew years ago. He was even exiled to an obscure Greek island in\nthe mediteranean. Only pressure from Amnesty International forced\nthe Greek government to allow him to return to his home town of\nFlorina (Lerin) in Northern Greece (Aegean Macedonia), where the\nmajority of ethnic Macedonians live.\n\n Balkan watchers see the Sideropoulos affair as a show trial in\nwhich Greece is desperate to clamp down on internal dissent,\nespecially when it comes to the issue of recognition for its\nnorthern neighbour, the Republic of Macedonia.\n\n Last year the State Department of the United States condemned\nGreece for its bad treatment of ethnic Macedonians and Turks (who\nlargely live in Western Thrace). But it remains to be seen if the\nUS government will do anything until the Presidential elections\nare over.\n\n================================================================\n M. I. L. S.\n================================================================\n91, Rue du Craetveld - Kraatveldstraat 91 Orce Nikolov 28 1120\nBRUSSELS, Belgium SKOPJE, Macedonia tel/fax: +32/2/268 18 48\ntel/fax:+38 91 201 566 modem: +32/2/262 28 97 n.acc:\nFamibank-Citibank Belgium 954 8691431 92\n\nSerdar Argic", "Source: \"Men Are Like That\" by Leonard Ramsden Hartill. The Bobbs-Merrill\nCompany, Indianapolis (1926). (305 pages). \n(Memoirs of an Armenian officer who participated in the genocide of 2.5 \n million Muslim people)\n\n\np. 204 (first paragraph).\n\n\"I was soon asleep. In the night I was awakened by the persistent crying of\n a child. I arose and went to investigate. A full moon enabled me to make\n my way about and revealed to me all the wreck and litter of the tragedy\n that had been enacted. Guided by the child's crying, I entered the yard of\n a house, which I judged from its appearance must have been the home of a\n Turkish family. There in a corner of the yard I found a women dead. Her\n throat had been cut. Lying on her breast was a small child, a girl about a\n year old.\"\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nSince your criminal grandparents ruthlessly exterminated more than\n600,000 Kurds between 1914 and 1916 in Eastern Anatolia. Referring to \nnotes from the personal diary of Russian General L. Odishe Liyetze on \nthe Turkish front, he wrote,\n\n\"On the nights 11-12 March, 1918 alone Armenian butchers \n bayoneted and axed to death 3000 Muslims in areas surrounding\n Erzincan. These barbars threw their victims into pits, most\n likely dug according to their sinister plans to extinguish \n Muslims, in groups of 80. My adjutant counted and unearthed\n 200 such pits. This is an act against our world of civilization.\"\n\nOn March 12, 1918 Lieut-colonel Griyaznof wrote (from an official\nRussian account of the Turkish genocide),\n\n\"Roads leading to villages were littered with bayoneted torsos,\n dismembered joints and carved out organs of Muslim peasants...\n alas! mainly of women and children.\"\n\nSource: Doc. Dr. Azmi Suslu, \"Russian View on the Atrocities Committed\n by the Armenians Against the Turks,\" Ankara Universitesi, Ankara,\n 1987, pp. 45-53.\n \"Document No: 77,\" Archive No: 1-2, Cabin No: 10, Drawer \n No: 4, File No: 410, Section No: 1578, Contents No: 1-12, 1-18.\n (Acting Commander of Erzurum and Deveboynu regions and Commander\n of the Second Erzurum Artillery Regiment Prisoner of War,\n Lieutenant Colonel Toverdodleyov)\n\n\"The things I have heard and seen during the two months, until the\n liberation of Erzurum by the Turks, have surpassed all the\n allegations concerning the vicious, degenerate characteristic of\n the Armenians. During the Russian occupation of Erzurum, no Armenian\n was permitted to approach the city and its environs.\n\n While the Commander of the First Army Corps, General Kaltiyin remained\n in power, troops including Armenian enlisted men, were not sent to the\n area. When the security measures were lifted, the Armenians began to \n attack Erzurum and its surroundings. Following the attacks came the\n plundering of the houses in the city and the villages and the murder\n of the owners of these houses...Plundering was widely committed by\n the soldiers. This plunder was mainly committed by Armenian soldiers\n who had remained in the rear during the war.\n\n One day, while passing through the streets on horseback, a group of\n soldiers including an Armenian soldier began to drag two old men of\n seventy years in a certain direction. The roads were covered with mud,\n and these people were dragging the two helpless Turks through the mud\n and dirt...\n\n It was understood later that all these were nothing but tricks and\n traps. The Turks who joined the gendarmarie soon changed their minds\n and withdrew. The reason was that most of the Turks who were on night\n patrol did not return, and no one knew what had happened to them. The \n Turks who had been sent outside the city for labour began to disappear\n also. Finally, the Court Martial which had been established for the\n trials of murderers and plunderers, began to liquidate itself for\n fear that they themselves would be punished. The incidents of murder\n and rape, which had decreased, began to occur more frequently.\n\n Sometime in January and February, a leading Turkish citizen Haci Bekir\n Efendi from Erzurum, was killed one night at his home. The Commander\n in Chief (Odiselidge) gave orders to find murderers within three days.\n The Commander in Chief has bitterly reminded the Armenian intellectuals\n that disobedience among the Armenian enlisted men had reached its\n highest point, that they had insulted and robbed the people and half\n of the Turks sent outside the city had not returned.\n\n ...We learnt the details this incident from the Commander-in-Chief,\n Odishelidge. They were as follows:\n\n The killings were organized by the doctors and the employers, and the\n act of killing was committed solely by the Armenian renegades...\n More than eight hundred unarmed and defenceless Turks have been\n killed in Erzincan. Large holes were dug and the defenceless \n Turks were slaughtered like animals next to the holes. Later, the\n murdered Turks were thrown into the holes. The Armenian who stood \n near the hole would say when the hole was filled with the corpses:\n 'Seventy dead bodies, well, this hole can take ten more.' Thus ten\n more Turks would be cut into pieces, thrown into the hole, and when\n the hole was full it would be covered over with soil.\n\n The Armenians responsible for the act of murdering would frequently\n fill a house with eighty Turks, and cut their heads off one by one.\n Following the Erzincan massacre, the Armenians began to withdraw\n towards Erzurum... The Armenian renegades among those who withdrew\n to Erzurum from Erzincan raided the Moslem villages on the road, and\n destroyed the entire population, together with the villages.\n\n During the transportation of the cannons, ammunition and the carriages\n that were outside the war area, certain people were hired among the \n Kurdish population to conduct the horse carriages. While the travellers\n were passing through Erzurum, the Armenians took advantage of the time\n when the Russian soldiers were in their dwellings and began to kill\n the Kurds they had hired. When the Russian soldiers heard the cries\n of the dying Kurds, they attempted to help them. However, the \n Armenians threatened the Russian soldiers by vowing that they would\n have the same fate if they intervened, and thus prevented them from\n acting. All these terrifying acts of slaughter were committed with\n hatred and loathing.\n\n Lieutenant Medivani from the Russian Army described an incident that\n he witnessed in Erzurum as follows: An Armenian had shot a Kurd. The\n Kurd fell down but did not die. The Armenian attempted to force the\n stick in his hand into the mouth of the dying Kurd. However, since\n the Kurd had firmly closed his jaws in his agony, the Armenian failed\n in his attempt. Having seen this, the Armenian ripped open the abdomen\n of the Kurd, disembowelled him, and finally killed him by stamping\n him with the iron heel of his boot.\n\n Odishelidge himself told us that all the Turks who could not escape\n from the village of Ilica were killed. Their heads had been cut off\n by axes. He also told us that he had seen thousands of murdered\n children. Lieutenant Colonel Gryaznov, who passed through the village\n of Ilica, three weeks after the massacre told us the following:\n\n There were thousands of dead bodies hacked to pieces, on the roads.\n Every Armenian who happened to pass through these roads, cursed and\n spat on the corpses. In the courtyard of a mosque which was about\n 25x30 meter square, dead bodies were piled to a height of 140 \n centimeters. Among these corpses were men and women of every age,\n children and old people. The women's bodies had obvious marks of\n rape. The genitals of many girls were filled with gun-powder.\n\n A few educated Armenian girls, who worked as telephone operators\n for the Armenian troops were called by Lieutenant Colonel Gryaznov\n to the courtyard of the mosque and he bitterly told them to be \n proud of what the Armenians had done. To the lieutenant colonel's\n disgusted amazement, the Armenian girls started to laugh and giggle,\n instead of being horrified. The lieutenant colonel had severely\n reprimanded those girls for their indecent behaviour. When he told\n the girls that the Armenians, including women, were generally more\n licentious than even the wildest animals, and that their indecent\n and shameful laughter was the most obvious evidence of their inhumanity\n and barbarity, before a scene that appalled even veteran soldiers,\n the Armenian girls finally remembered their sense of shame and\n claimed they had laughed because they were nervous.\n\n An Armenian contractor at the Alaca Communication zone command\n narrated the following incident which took place on February 20:\n\n The Armenians had nailed a Turkish women to the wall. They had cut\n out the women's heart and placed the heart on top of her head.\n The great massacre in Erzurum began on February 7... The enlisted men \n of the artillery division caught and stripped 270 people. Then they\n took these people into the bath to satisfy their lusts. 100 people\n among this group were able to save their lives as the result of\n my decisive attempts. The others, the Armenians claimed, were \n released when they learnt that I understood what was going on. \n Among those who organized this treacherous act was the envoy to the\n Armenian officers, Karagodaviev. Today, some Turks were murdered\n on the streets.\n\n On February 12, some Armenians have shot more than ten innocent\n Moslems. The Russian soldiers who attempted to save these people were\n threatened with death. Meanwhile I imprisoned an Armenian for\n murdering an innocent Turk. \n\n When an Armenian officer told an Armenian murderer that he would \n be hanged for his crime, the killer shouted furiously: 'How dare\n you hang an Armenian for killing a Turk?' In Erzurum, the \n Armenians burned down the Turkish market. On February 17, I heard\n that the entire population of Tepekoy village, situated within\n the artillery area, had been totally annihilated. On the same \n day when Antranik entered Erzurum, I reported the massacre to\n him, and asked him to track down the perpetrators of this horrible\n act. However no result was achieved.\n\n In the villages whose inhabitants had been massacred, there was a\n natural silence. On the night of 26/27 February, the Armenians deceived\n the Russians, perpetrated a massacre and escaped for fear of the \n Turkish soldiers. Later, it was understood that this massacre had\n been based upon a method organized and planned in a circular. \n The population had been herded in a certain place and then killed\n one by one. The number of murders committed on that night reached\n three thousand. It was the Armenians who bragged to about the details\n of the massacre. The Armenians fighting against the Turkish soldiers\n were so few in number and so cowardly that they could not even\n withstand the Turkish soldiers who consisted of only five hundred\n people and two cannons, for one night, and ran away. The leading\n Armenians of the community could have prevented this massacre.\n However, the Armenian intellectuals had shared the same ideas with\n the renegades in this massacre, just as in all the others. The lower\n classes within the Armenian community have always obeyed the orders\n of the leading Armenian figures and commanders. \n\n I do not like to give the impression that all Armenian intellectuals\n were accessories to these murders. No, for there were people who\n opposed the Armenians for such actions, since they understood that\n it would yield no result. However, such people were only a minority.\n Furthermore, such people were considered as traitors to the Armenian\n cause. Some have seemingly opposed the Armenian murders but have\n supported the massacres secretly. Some, on the other hand, preferred\n to remain silent. There were certain others, who, when accused by\n the Russians of infamy, would say the following: 'You are Russians.\n You can never understand the Armenian cause.' The Armenians had a\n conscience. They would commit massacres and then would flee in fear\n of the Turkish soldiers.\n\n The incidents that occurred only recently clearly manifest the real\n nature of the Armenian ideology. Nothing which is already done can\n be undone.\"\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nWith your level of understanding, my dear friend Mutlu probably\nthought that he'd be nice and help you genocide apologist to get \nthe point. Besides, all your article reflects is your abundant\nignorance. Ignorance is probably the main reason why you historical\nrevisionist are in such a mess. You even make Nazi/criminal Armenians \nlaugh.\n\n\n \"In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.\n It is in our power to tear away the veil of illusion that some of us\n create for ourselves. It certainly is possible to severe the artificial\n life-support system of an imagined 'ethnic purity' that some of us\n falsely trust as the only structure that can support their heart beats \n in this alien land.\"\n (Sahak Melkonian - 1920 - \"Preserving the Armenian purity\") \n\n\n\"An appropriate analogy with the Jewish Holocaust might be the\n systematic extermination of the entire Muslim population of \n the independent republic of Armenia which consisted of at \n least 30-40 percent of the population of that republic. The \n memoirs of an Armenian army officer who participated in and \n eye-witnessed these atrocities was published in the U.S. in\n 1926 with the title 'Men Are Like That.' Other references abound.\"\n (Rachel A. Bortnick - The Jewish Times - June 21, 1990)\n\n\n 1.\"Men Are Like That\" by Leonard A. Hartill, Bobbs Co., Indianapolis, \n 1926\n\n Memoirs of an Armenian Army Officer translated to English and\n published by a member of American \"Near East Relief Organization.\"\n Gives the whole account of the genocide of all Turkish and Moslem\n people in Armenia organized and executed by Armenian Government and\n Army. Also gives account of countless other massacres and atrocities\n against the Turkish people in Armenia.\n\n 2.\"Adventures in the Near East\" by A. Rawlinson, \n Dodd, Meade & Co., 1925\n\n Eyewitness account of the same genocide by a British Army Officer.\n\n 3.\"World Alive, A Personal Story\" by Robert Dunn,\n Crown Publishers, Inc., New York, 1952\n\n Another eyewitness account of the same genocide by an American \n Officer.\n\n 4.\"From Sardarapat to Serves and Lousanne\" by Avetis Aharonian,\n The Armenian Review Magazine, Volume 15 (Fall 1962) through 17 \n (Spring 1964)\n\n Memoirs of the chief Armenian delegate to the Paris Peace Conference\n were published in the Armenian Review Magazine in 13 articles from\n Volume 15 (Fall 1962) to Volume 17 (Spring 1964). These memoirs \n include an interview between Aharonian and British Foreign Minister \n Lord Curzon in which above-mentioned genocide was discussed. The \n official report mentioned by Lord Curzon is the report of British \n High Commissioner to Caucasia, Sir Oliver Wardrop.\n\n\n 'Kill Turks and Kurds wherever you find them and in \n whatever circumstances you find them. Turkish children \n also should be killed as they form a danger to the \n Armenian nation.' (Hamparsum Boyadjian - 1914)[1]\n\n [1] M. Varandian, \"History of the Dashnaktsutiun,\" p. 85.\n\n\nSource: Hovannisian, Richard G.: Armenia on the Road to Independence, 1918.\nUniversity of California Press (Berkeley and Los Angeles), 1967, p. 13.\n\n\"The addition of the Kars and Batum oblasts to the Empire increased the\n area of Transcaucasia to over 130,000 square miles. The estimated population\n of the entire region in 1886 was 4,700,000, of whom 940,000 (20 percent) were\n Armenian, 1,200,000 (25 percent) Georgian, and 2,220,000 (45 percent) Moslem.\n Of the latter group, 1,140,000 were Tatars. Paradoxically, barely one-third\n of Transcaucasia's Armenians lived in the Erevan guberniia, where the \n Christians constituted a majority in only three of the seven uezds. Erevan\n uezd, the administrative center of the province, had only 44,000 Armenians\n as compared to 68,000 Moslems. By the time of the Russian Census of 1897,\n however, the Armenians had established a scant majority, 53 percent, in the\n guberniia; it had risen by 1916 to 60 percent, or 670,000 of the 1,120,000\n inhabitants. This impressive change in the province's ethnic character \n notwithstanding, there was, on the eve of the creation of the Armenian \n Republic, a solid block of 370,000 Tartars who continued to dominate the \n southern districts, from the outskirts of Ereven to the border of Persia.\" \n (See also Map 1. Historic Armenia and Map 4. Administrative subdivisions of \n Transcaucasia).\n\nIn 1920, '0' percent Turk. \n\n\"We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as \n ways of escape for the Tartars and then proceeded in the work \n of extermination. Our troops surrounded village after village. \n Little resistance was offered. Our artillery knocked the huts \n into heaps of stone and dust and when the villages became untenable \n and inhabitants fled from them into fields, bullets and bayonets \n completed the work. Some of the Tartars escaped of course. They \n found refuge in the mountains or succeeded in crossing the border \n into Turkey. The rest were killed. And so it is that the whole \n length of the borderland of Russian Armenia from Nakhitchevan to \n Akhalkalaki from the hot plains of Ararat to the cold mountain \n plateau of the North were dotted with mute mournful ruins of \n Tartar villages. They are quiet now, those villages, except for \n howling of wolves and jackals that visit them to paw over the \n scattered bones of the dead.\" \n\n Ohanus Appressian\n \"Men Are Like That\"\n p. 202.\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nComing from an idiot/crook Armenian, I'd take that as a compliment.\nYour criminal grandparents committed unheard-of crimes, resorted\nto all conceivable methods of despotism, organized massacres, poured \npetrol over babies and burned them, raped women and girls in front of \ntheir parents who were bound hand and foot, took girls from their \nmothers and fathers and appropriated personal property and real estate. \nAnd today, they put Azeris in the most unbearable conditions any other \nnation had ever known in history.\n \nSource: John Dewey: \"The New Republic,\" Vol. 40, Nov. 12, 1928, pp. 268-9.\n\n\"They [Armenians] traitorously turned Turkish cities over to the Russian \n invader; that they boasted of having raised an army of one hundred and\n fifty thousand men to fight a civil war, and that they burned at least\n a hundred Turkish villages and exterminated their population.\"\n\n\n SOME OF THE REFERENCES FROM EMINENT AUTHORS IN THE FIELD OF MIDDLE-EASTERN\n HISTORY AND EYEWITNESSES OF THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE OF 2.5 MILLION MUSLIMS\n\n1. \"The Armenian Revolutionary Movement\" by Louise Nalbandian,\n University of California Press, Berkeley, Los Angeles, 1975\n\n2. \"Diplomacy of Imperialism 1890-1902\" by William I. Lenger, Professor\n of History, Harward University, Boston, Alfred A. Knopt, New York, 1951\n\n3. \"Turkey in Europe\" by Sir Charles Elliot, \n Edward & Arnold, London, 1900\n\n4. \"The Chatnam House Version and Other Middle-Eastern Studies\" by\n Elie Kedouri, Praeger Publishers, New York, Washington, 1972\n\n5. \"The Rising Crescent\" by Ernest Jackh,\n Farrar & Reinhart, Inc., New York & Toronto, 1944\n\n6. \"Spiritual and Political Evolutions in Islam\" by Felix Valyi,\n Mogan, Paul, Trench & Truebner & Co., London, 1925\n\n7. \"The Struggle for Power in Moslem Asia\" by E. Alexander Powell,\n The Century Co., New York, London, 1924\n\n8. \"Struggle for Transcaucasia\" by Feruz Kazemzadeh,\n Yale University Press, New Haven, Conn., 1951\n\n9. \"History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey\" (2 volumes) by\n Stanford J. Shaw, Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, New York,\n Melbourne, 1977\n\n10.\"The Western Question in Greece and Turkey\" by Arnold J. Toynbee,\n Constable & Co., Ltd., London, Bombay & Sydney, 1922\n\n11.\"The Caliph's Last Heritage\" by Sir Mark Sykes,\n Macmillan & Co., London, 1915\n\n12.\"Men Are Like That\" by Leonard A. Hartill,\n Bobbs Co., Indianapolis, 1928\n\n13.\"Adventures in the Near East, 1918-22\" by A. Rawlinson,\n Dodd, Meade & Co., 1925\n\n14.\"World Alive, A Personal Story\" by Robert Dunn,\n Crown Publishers, Inc., New York, 1952\n\n15.\"From Sardarapat to Serves and Lousanne\" by Avetis Aharonian,\n The Armenian Review Magazine, Volume 15 (Fall 1962) through 17 \n (Spring 1964)\n\n16.\"Armenia on the Road to Independence\" by Richard G. Hovanessian,\n University of California Press, Berkeley, California, 1967\n\n17.\"The Rebirth of Turkey\" by Clair Price,\n Thomas Seltzer, New York, 1923\n\n18.\"Caucasian Battlefields\" by W. B. Allen & Paul Muratoff,\n Cambridge, 1953\n\n19.\"Partition of Turkey\" by Harry N. Howard,\n H. Fertig, New York, 1966\n \n20.\"The King-Crane Commission\" by Harry N. Howard,\n Beirut, 1963\n\n21.\"United States Policy and Partition of Turkey\" by Laurence Evans,\n John Hopkins University Press, Baltimore, 1965\n\n22.\"British Documents Related to Turkish War of Independence\" by Gothard \n Jaeschke\n \n1. Neside Kerem Demir, \"Bir Sehid Anasina Tarihin Soyledikleri: \n Turkiye'nin Ermeni Meselesi,\" Hulbe Basim ve Yayin T.A.S., \n Ankara, 1982. (Ingilizce Birinci Baski: 1980, \"The Armenian \n Question in Turkey\")\n\n2. Veysel Eroglu, \"Ermeni Mezalimi,\" Sebil Yayinevi, Istanbul, 1978.\n\n3. A. Alper Gazigiray, \"Osmanlilardan Gunumuze Kadar Vesikalarla Ermeni\n Teroru'nun Kaynaklari,\" Gozen Kitabevi, Istanbul, 1982.\n\n4. Dr. Kirzioglu M. Fahrettin, \"Kars Ili ve Cevresinde Ermeni Mezalimi,\"\n Kardes Matbaasi, Ankara, 1970. \n\nT.C. Basbakanlik Osmanli Arsivi, Babiali, Istanbul:\n\na) Yildiz Esas Evraki\nb) Yildiz Perakende\nc) Irade Defterleri\nd) Cemaat-i Gayr-i Muslime Defterleri\ne) Meclisi Vukela Mazbatalari\nf) Dahiliye Nezareti, Kalem-i Mahsus Dosyalari\ng) Dahiliye Nezareti, Sifre Defterleri\nh) Babiali Evrak Odasi: Siyasi Kartonlar\ni) Babiali Evrak Odasi: Muhimme Kartonlari\n\nT.C. Disisleri Bakanligi, Hazine-i Evrak, Defterdarlik \n\na) Harb-i Umumi\nb) Muteferrik Kartonlar\n\nBritish Archives:\n\na) Parliamentary Papers (Hansard): Commons/Lords\nb) Foreign Office: Confidential Print: Various Collections\nc) Foreign Office: 424/239-253: Turkey: Correspondence - Annual Reports\nd) Foreign Office: 608\ne) Foreign Office: 371, Political Intelligence: General Correspondence\nf) Foreign Office: 800/240, Ryan Papers\ng) Foreign Office: 800/151, Curzon Papers\nh) Foreign Office: 839: The Eastern Conference: Lausanne. 53 files\n\nIndia Office Records and Library, Blackfriars Road, London.\n\na) L/Political and Security/10/851-855 (five boxes), \"Turkey: Treaty of\n Peace: 1918-1923\"\nb) L/P & S/10/1031, \"Near East: Turkey and Greece: Lausanne Conference,\n 1921-1923\"\nc) L/P & S/11/154\nd) L/P & S/11/1031\n\nFrench Archives\n\nArchives du ministere des Affaires entrangeres, Quai d'Orsay, Paris.\n\na) Documents Diplomatiques: Affaires Armeniens: 1895-1914 Collections\nb) Guerre: 1914-1918: Turquie: Legion d'Orient.\nc) Levant, 1918-1929: Armenie.\n\n\nOfficial Publications, Published Documents, Diplomatic Correspondence,\nAgreements, Minutes and Others\n\nA. Turkey (The Ottoman Empire and The Republic of Turkey)\n\nAkarli, E. (ed.); \"Belgelerle Tanzimat,\" (istanbul, 1978).\n(Gn. Kur., ATASE); \"Askeri Tarih Belgeleri Dergisi,\" V. XXXI (81),\n(Dec. 1982).\n----; \"Askeri Tarih Belgeleri Dergisi,\" V. XXXII (83),\n(Dec. 1983).\nHocaoglu, M. (ed.); \"Ittihad-i Anasir-i Osmaniye Heyeti Nizamnamesi,\"\n(Istanbul, 1912).\nMeray, S. L. (trans./ed.) \"Lozan Baris Konferansi: Tutanaklar-Belgeler,\"\n(Ankara, 1978), 2 vols.\nMeray, S. L./O. Olcay (ed.); \"Osmanli Imparatorlugu'nun Cokus Belgeleri;\nMondros Birakismasi, Sevr Andlasmasi, Ilgili Belgeler,\" (Ankara, 1977).\n(Osmanli Devleti, Dahiliye Nezareti); \"Aspirations et Agissements \nRevolutionnaires des Comites Armeniens avant et apres la proclamation\nde la Constitution Ottomane,\" (Istanbul, 1917).\n----; \"Ermeni Komitelerinin Amal ve Hareket-i Ihtilaliyesi: Ilan-i\nMesrutiyetten Evvel ve Sonra,\" (Istanbul, 1916).\n----; \"Idare-i Umumiye ve Vilayet Kanunu,\" (Istanbul, 1913).\n----; \"Muharrerat-i Umumiye Mecmuasi, V. I (Istanbul, 1914).\n----; \"Muharrerat-i Umumiye Mecmuasi, V. II (Istanbul, 1915).\n----; \"Muharrerat-i Umumiye Mecmuasi, V. III (Istanbul, 1916).\n----; \"Muharrerat-i Umumiye Mecmuasi, V. IV (Istanbul, 1917).\n(Osmanli Devleti, Hariciye Nezareti); \"Imtiyazat-i Ecnebiyye'nin\nLagvindan Dolayi Memurine Teblig Olunacak Talimatname,\" (Istanbul, 1915).\n(Osmanli Devleti, Harbiye Nezareti); \"Islam Ahalinin Ducar Olduklari\nMezalim Hakkinda Vesaike Mustenid Malumat,\" (Istanbul, 1919).\n----; (IV. Ordu) \"Aliye Divan-i Harbi Orfisinde Tedkik Olunan Mesele-yi\nSiyasiye Hakkinda Izahat,\" (Istanbul, 1916).\nTurkozu, H. K. (ed.); \"Osmanli ve Sovyet Belgeleriyle Ermeni Mezalimi,\"\n(Ankara, 1982).\n----; \"Turkiye Buyuk Millet Meclisi Gizli Celse Zabitlari,\" (Ankara, 1985),\n4 vols.\n\nRussia\n\nAdamof, E. E. (ed.); \"Sovyet Devlet Arsivi Belgeleriyle Anadolu'nun \nTaksimi Plani,\" (tran. H. Rahmi, ed. H. Mutlucag), (Istanbul, 1972).\n\nAltinay, A. R.; \"Iki Komite - Iki Kital,\" (Istanbul, 1919).\n----; \"Kafkas Yollarinda Hatiralar ve Tahassusler,\" (Istanbul, 1919).\n----; \"Turkiye'de Katolik Propagandasi,\" Turk tarihi Encumeni Mecmuasi,\nV. XIV/82-5 (Sept. 1924).\nAsaf Muammer; \"Harb ve Mesulleri,\" (Istanbul, 1918).\nAkboy, C.; \"Birinci Dunya Harbinde Turk Harbi, V. I: Osmanli Imparatorlugu'nun\nSiyasi ve Askeri Hazirliklari ve Harbe Girisi,\" (Gn. Kur., Ankara, 1970).\nAkgun, S.; \"General Harbord'un Anadolu Gezisi ve (Ermeni Meselesi'ne Dair)\nRaporu: Kurtulus Savasi Baslangicinda,\" (Istanbul, 1981).\nAkin, I.; \"Turk Devrim Tarihi,\" (Istanbul, 1983).\nAksin, S.; \"Jon Turkler ve Ittihad ve Terakki,\" (Istanbul, 1976).\nBasar, Z. (ed.);\"Ermenilerden Gorduklerimiz,\" (Ankara, 1974).\n----; \"Ermeniler Hakkinda Makaleler - Derlemeler,\" (Ankara, 1978).\nBelen, F.; \"Birinci Dunya Harbinde Turk Harbi,\" (Ankara, 1964).\nDeliorman, A.; \"Turklere Karsi Ermeni Komitecileri,\" (Istanbul, 1980).\nEge, N. N. (ed.); \"Prens Sabahaddin: Hayati ve Ilmi Mudafaalari,\"\n(Istanbul, 1977).\nErcikan, A.; \"Ermenilerin Bizans ve Osmanli Imparatorluklarindaki Rolleri,\"\n(Ankara, 1949).\nGurun, K.; 'Ermeni Sorunu yahut bir sorun nasil yaratilir?', \"Turk Tarihinde\nErmeniler Sempozyumu,\" (Izmir, 1983).\nHocaoglu, M.; \"Arsiv Vesikalariyla Tarihte Ermeni Mezalimi ve Ermeniler,\"\n(Istanbul, 1976).\nKaral, E. S.; \"Osmanli Tarihi,\" V. V (1983, 4th ed.); V. VI (1976, 2nd ed.);\nV. VII (1977, 2nd ed.); V. VIII (1983, 2nd ed.) Ankara.\nKurat, Y. T.; \"Osmanli Imparatorlugu'nun Paylasilmasi,\" (Ankara, 1976).\nOrel, S./S. Yuca; \"Ermenilerce Talat Pasa'ya Atfedilen Telgraflarin\nIcyuzu,\" (Ankara, 1983). [Also in English translation.]\nAhmad, F.; \"The Young Turks: The Committee of Union and Progress in\nTurkish Politics,\" (Oxford, 1969).\n\nSerdar Argic", "From article <1993Apr22.145106.158@cathy.ijs.si>, by Borut.B.Lavrencic@ijs.si:\n[...]\n[...]\n\nAre you sure that the field is in the area you found the antenna\nfarm? The tomb (\"Ymvos\") of Marathon which Herodotus specifies as near\nthe fighting area is in an area open to the public.\n\nYou must be referring to the U.S. army base of \"Nea Makri\". It was\nbuilt by the U.S. in the same manner as bases all over the world\n(W. Germany, Spain, Philippines, Turkey etc.) were built. I think\nit was a telecommunications hub. Over the recent years U.S. forces\nhave withdrawn from the base and removed all military equipment. The\narea is currently under the control of the Greek Navy until the all\ninterested parties (local goverment, central goverment, political parties\nagree on what should be done with the land (park, recreation area,\nreal-estate.)\n\n(This has nothing to do with cryptography, security and the EFF; I have\nredirected followups to soc.culture.greek)\n\nDiomidis", "4/15/93 1242 Turkey sends light weapons as aid to Azerbaijan\n\nBy SEVA ULMAN\n \nANKARA, Turkey (UPI) -- Turkey is arming Azerbaijan with light weapons to help\nit fight Armenian forces in the struggle for the Nagorno- Karabakh enclave, \nthe newspaper Hurriyet said Thursday.\n\nDeputy Prime Minister Erdal Inonu told reporters in Ankara that Turkey was\nresponding positively to a request from Azerbaijan for assistance.\n\n\"We are giving a positive response to all requests\" from Azerbaijan, \"within\nthe limits of our capabilities,\" he said.\n\nForeign Ministry spokesman Vural Valkan declined to elaborate on the nature\nof the aid being sent to Azerbaijan, but said they were within the framework \nof the Council for Security and Cooperation in Europe.\n\nHurriyet, published in Istanbul, said Turkey was sending light weapons to\nAzerbaijan, including rockets, rocket launchers and ammunition.\n\nAnkara began sending the hardware after a visit to Turkey last week by a\nhigh-ranking Azerbaijani official. Turkey has however ruled out, for the second\ntime in one week, that it would intervene militarily in Azerbaijan.\n\nWednesday, Inonu told reporters Ankara would not allow Azerbaijan to suffer\ndefeat at the hands of the Armenians. \"We feel ourselves bound to help\nAzerbaijan, but I am not in a position right now to tell you what form (that)\nhelp may take in the future,\" he said.\n\nHe said Turkish aid to Azerbaijan was continuing, \"and the whole world knows\nabout it.\"\n\nPrime Minister Suleyman Demirel reiterated that Turkey would not get\nmilitarily involved in the conflict. Foreign policy decisions could not be \nbased on street-level excitement, he said.\n\nThere was no immediate reaction in Ankara to regional reports, based on\nArmenian sources in Yerevan, saying Turkish pilots and other officers were\ncaptured when they were shot down flying Azerbaijani warplanes and \nhelicopters.\n\nThe newspaper Cumhuriyet said Turkish troops were digging in along the border\nwith Armenia, but military sources denied reports based on claims by local\npeople that gunfire was heard along the border. No military action has \noccurred, the sources said.\n\nThe latest upsurge in fighting between the Armenians and Azerbaijanis flared\nearly this month when Armenian forces seized the town of Kelbajar and later\npositioned themselves outside Fizuli, near the Iranian border.\n\n", "\n\nHow about the following scholarly source?\n\nSource: Pierre Oberling, \"The Road to Bellapais: The Turkish Cypriot\n Exodus to Northern Cyprus\", Social Science Monographs, Boulder,\n 1982, ISBN 88033-000-7.\n\n\nWell, I am forced to disagree with you. The Greeks started massacring \nthe Turkish population on Cyprus in 1974. In 1974, Turkiye stepped into \nCyprus to preserve the lives of the Turkish population there. This is \nnothing but a simple historical fact. Unfortunately, the intervention \nwas too late at least for some of the victims. Mass graves containing \nnumerous bodies of women and children already showed what fate had been \nplanned for a peaceful minority.\n\nThe people of Turkiye know quite well that Greece and the Greek Cypriots \nwill never abandon the idea of hellenizing Cyprus and will remain \neternally hopeful of uniting it with Greece, someday, whatever the \ncost to the parties involved. The history speaks for itself. Greece was \nthe sole perpetrator of invasion on that island when it sent its troops \non July 15, 1974 in an attempt to topple the legitimate government of \nArchibishop Makarios.\n\nThe release of Nikos Sampson, a member of EOKA [National Organization\nof Cypriot Fighters] and a convicted terrorist, shows that the\n'enosis' mentality continues to survive in Greece. One should not\nforget that Sampson dedicated his life to annihilating the Turks\nin Cyprus, committed murder to achieve this goal, and tried to\ndestroy the island's independence by annexing it to Greece. Of\ncourse, the Greek governments will have to bear the consequences \nfor this irresponsible conduct.\n\nTurkish Cypriots are simply seeking guarantees that will preclude a\nrepeat performance by the fanatical cadres of the Greeks' EOKA. If \nsuch assurances are not perfectly implemented, there is every reason \nto expect that the local Greeks will be misguided enough to perpetrate \ntheir past mistakes. On such an occasion, the Turkish side may not find \nit satisfactory to act with reluctance to go any further than before, \nfor it is unacceptable to remain always defensive against cyclical \nvicious attacks. Therefore it would be better to have a true federation\nof two separate sections living in obligatory peace, rather than another \narmed confrontation that would be started by the Greeks and obligatorily \nbut decisively terminated by the Turks. \n\nThe present Greek government is trying to tyrannize the Turkish population \nin western Thrace by forbidding it its ethnic and religious rights, which \nwere established through international treaties. One might be better\nadvised to remember that misadventures against Turkiye do not serve \nGreece well.\n\nAn offer of membership in the European Common Market as bait for concessions \nthat may doom the Turks in Cyprus to extinction is not a viable course for \nGreece or her friends. Neither Turkish lives nor Turkish honor has been \nplaced on the bidding block to be sold for commercial gain.\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "\nI am not aware of any \"Turkish Caliphate\" viewpoint on this. Can you\nreference?\n\nHowever, I found a quote due to Imam Ali, whom the Shias follow:\n\n\"Men, never obey your women in any way whatsoever. Never let them give their\nadvice on any matter whatsoever, even those of everyday life. Indeed, allow\nthem freely to give advice on anything and they will fritter away one's\nwealth and disobey the wishes of the owner of this wealth.\n We see them without religion, when, alone, they are left to their own\ndevices; they are lacking in both pity and virtue when their carnal\ndesires are at stake. It is easy to enjoy them, but they cause great\nanxiety. The most virtious among them are libertines. But the most\ncorrupt are whores. Only those of them whom age has deprived of any\ncharm are untainted by vice. They have three qualities particular to\nmiscreants; they complain of being oppressed, whereas it is they\nwho oppress; they make oaths, whereas they are lying; they pretend\nto refuse men's solicitations, whereas they desire them most ardently.\nLet us beg the help of God to emerge victorious from their evil deeds.\nAnd preserve us in any case from their good ones.\"\n\n(Quote from Mas'ud al-Qanawi, ref. A. Bouhdiba, Sexuality in Islam, \np. 118).\n\nI wouldn't consider this quote as being exemplary of the Islamic (TM)\nviewpoint though. For all we know, the prophet's cousin and\nthe Fourth Khalif Hazret-i Ali may have said this after a frustrating \nnight with a woman.\n\nSelim Guncer\n", "\n\nWell, these are Armenian and Jewish scholars, not me. Denying the obvious?\n\n\nSource: Hovannisian, Richard G.: Armenia on the Road to Independence, 1918.\nUniversity of California Press (Berkeley and Los Angeles), 1967, p. 13.\n\n\"The addition of the Kars and Batum oblasts to the Empire increased the\n area of Transcaucasia to over 130,000 square miles. The estimated population\n of the entire region in 1886 was 4,700,000, of whom 940,000 (20 percent) were\n Armenian, 1,200,000 (25 percent) Georgian, and 2,220,000 (45 percent) Moslem.\n Of the latter group, 1,140,000 were Tatars. Paradoxically, barely one-third\n of Transcaucasia's Armenians lived in the Erevan guberniia, where the \n Christians constituted a majority in only three of the seven uezds. Erevan\n uezd, the administrative center of the province, had only 44,000 Armenians\n as compared to 68,000 Moslems. By the time of the Russian Census of 1897,\n however, the Armenians had established a scant majority, 53 percent, in the\n guberniia; it had risen by 1916 to 60 percent, or 670,000 of the 1,120,000\n inhabitants. This impressive change in the province's ethnic character \n notwithstanding, there was, on the eve of the creation of the Armenian \n Republic, a solid block of 370,000 Tartars who continued to dominate the \n southern districts, from the outskirts of Ereven to the border of Persia.\" \n (See also Map 1. Historic Armenia and Map 4. Administrative subdivisions of \n Transcaucasia).\n\nIn 1920, '0' percent Turk. \n\n\"We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as \n ways of escape for the Tartars and then proceeded in the work \n of extermination. Our troops surrounded village after village. \n Little resistance was offered. Our artillery knocked the huts \n into heaps of stone and dust and when the villages became untenable \n and inhabitants fled from them into fields, bullets and bayonets \n completed the work. Some of the Tartars escaped of course. They \n found refuge in the mountains or succeeded in crossing the border \n into Turkey. The rest were killed. And so it is that the whole \n length of the borderland of Russian Armenia from Nakhitchevan to \n Akhalkalaki from the hot plains of Ararat to the cold mountain \n plateau of the North were dotted with mute mournful ruins of \n Tartar villages. They are quiet now, those villages, except for \n howling of wolves and jackals that visit them to paw over the \n scattered bones of the dead.\" \n\n Ohanus Appressian\n \"Men Are Like That\"\n p. 202.\n\n\n \"In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.\n It is in our power to tear away the veil of illusion that some of us\n create for ourselves. It certainly is possible to severe the artificial\n life-support system of an imagined 'ethnic purity' that some of us\n falsely trust as the only structure that can support their heart beats \n in this alien land.\"\n (Sahak Melkonian - 1920 - \"Preserving the Armenian purity\") \n\n\n<1993Apr24.042427.29323@walter.bellcore.com>\nddc@nyquist.bellcore.com (Daniel Dusan Chukurov 21324)\n\n\nNo kidding. The Armenians tore apart the Ottoman Empire's eastern provinces,\nmassacred 2.5 million defenseless Turkish women, children and elderly \npeople, burned thousands of Turkish and Kurdish villages and exterminated \nthe entire Turkish population of the Armenian dictatorship between \n1914-1920. Such outrageous sleight of hand that is still employed today \nin Armenia brings a depth and verification to the Turkish genocide \nthat is hard to match. A hundred years ago Armenians again thought \nthey could get whatever they wanted through sheer terror like the \nRussian anarchists that they accepted as role models. Several Armenian \nterror groups like ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism and Revisionism Triangle \nresorted to the same tactics in the 1980s, butchering scores of innocent\nTurks and their families in the United States and Europe. It seems that \nthey are doing it again, at a different scale, in fascist x-Soviet Armenia \ntoday.\n\nA merciless massacre of the civilian population of the small Azeri \ntown of Khojali (Pop. 6000) in Karabagh, Azerbaijan, is reported to \nhave taken place on the night of Feb. 28 under a coordinated military \noperation of the 366th mechanized division of the CIS army and the \nArmenian insurgents. Close to 1000 people are reported to have been \nmassacred. Elderly and children were not spared. Many were badly beaten \nand shot at close range. A sense of rage and helplessness has overwhelmed \nthe Azeri population in face of the well armed and equipped Armenian \ninsurgency. The neighboring Azeri city of Aghdam outside of the\nKarabagh region has come under heavy Armenian artillery shelling. City \nhospital was hit and two pregnant women as well as a new born infant \nwere killed. Azerbaijan is appealing to the international community to \ncondemn such barbaric and ruthless attacks on its population and its \nsovereignty.\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nI am forced to disagree with you. First of all, one may have been \nborn from a non-Turkish, non-Muslim parent outside the Turkish land, \nyet still can be a Turk, provided this person calls himself or herself \na Turk. Because the designation of a Turk is not a genetic feature,\nnot a racial or religious feature. It is a matter of identifying\nwith the Turkish values. Secondly, the following observations by \nWesterners were written in French by Ahmet Cevat: \n\n\"If Turks had behaved like Christians to use force to convert to Islam the\nnations which they brought under their power, to which no one could have\nopposed, today there would be no Eastern problem. But Turks did not do so. \nThey obeyed the word of the Koran to permit everybody \"to worship in their own\nway\" centuries before Frederick the Great pronounced his famous dictum. Thus,\nin an age when the Christian Europe itself shed Christian blood and when \npeople in Europe enjoyed inflicting inhuman tortures upon those whose beliefs\ndiffered from theirs, the Ottoman Empire became the sole country where the\ninquisition did not exist, where deaths at the stake were unheard of and \nwhere accusations of witchcraft were not made. And the barbarian (!) Turkey\nwas the only country where the Jews persecuted and chased away everywhere\nby the Christians, could find asylum. These facts demonstrate that Muslim\ncountries provided spiritually far better living conditions than Christian\ncountries.\"[1]\n\n\"The Turks, who are a conquering nation, did not Turkify the nations that came\nunder their rule; instead, they respected their religions and traditions. It\nwas a stroke of luck for Romania to live under Turkish rule instead of\nRussian or Austrian rule. Because otherwise there would not have been a\nRomanian nation today\" (Popescu Ciocanel).\n\n\"Turks rule over people under their administration only externally, without\ninterfering with their internal structures. On account of this, the autonomy\nof minorities in Turkey is better and more complete than any in the most\nadvanced European countries.\"[2]\n\n\"...human beings hate each other on account of religious differences. This flaw\nis older than Islam and Christianity. But there has never been any examples\nof this adjuration in Turkey because Turks never oppress anybody on account\nof his religion. If enmity on the basis of religion had been such a case of\nsimple contempt among us too, or if it did not keep translating itself into\naction, many nations in our Europe would probably have considered themselves\nhappy!\" (A. de Mortraye).[3]\n\n\"Turkey never became a scene for religious terror or for the cruelty of the\ninquisition. On the contrary, it served as an asylum for the unfortunate\nvictims of Christian fanaticism. If you look into history, you will see that\nin the fifteenth century thousands of Jews who were expelled from Spain and\nPortugal found such a good asylum in Turkey that their descendants have been\nliving there very calmly all through these approximately three hundred years,\nand are only forced to defend themselves in some countries against the\ncruelty of Christians, especially that of the Orthodoxes. No Jew is able to\nappear in public during Easter celebrations in Athens, even today. In Turkey,\nhowever, if the Israelites are insulted by the Greek and Armenian communities,\nlocal courts immediately take them under their protection.\"\n\n\"In that vast and calm country of the sultan, all religions and nations are\nliving together peacefully. Although the mosque is superior to the church and\nthe synagogue, it does not replace them. Because of this, the Catholic sect is\nmore free in Istanbul and Smyrna compared with Paris and Lyon. In addition \nto the fact that no law in Turkey prohibits the open-air ceremonies of this \nsect, neither does any law imprison its cross in the church. While the\ndead are being taken to the graves, a long line of priests bear processional\ncandles and chant Catholic hymns. When all the priests in all the churches in\nthe Galata and Beyoglu districts go into the streets and form clerical\nprocessions during the Eucharist celebrations, chanting hymns and bearing\ntheir crosses and religious banners, a detachment of soldiers escorts them\nwhich forces even the Turks to stand in respect around the group of \npriests.\" (A. Ubicini).[4]\n\n[1] Ah. Djevat, \"Yabancilara Gore Eski Turkler,\" 3rd ed. (Istanbul, 1978),\n pp. 70-71.\n[2] Ibid., p.91.\n[3] Ibid., pp. 214-215.\n[4] Ibid., pp. 215-216.\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "ac = In <9304202017@zuma.UUCP> sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)\npl = linden@positive.Eng.Sun.COM (Peter van der Linden)\n\npl: 1. So, did the Turks kill the Armenians?\n\nac: So, did the Jews kill the Germans? \nac: You even make Armenians laugh.\n\nac: \"An appropriate analogy with the Jewish Holocaust might be the\nac: systematic extermination of the entire Muslim population of \nac: the independent republic of Armenia which consisted of at \nac: least 30-40 percent of the population of that republic. The \nac: memoirs of an Armenian army officer who participated in and \nac: eye-witnessed these atrocities was published in the U.S. in\nac: 1926 with the title 'Men Are Like That.' Other references abound.\"\n\nTypical Mutlu. PvdL asks if X happened, the response is that Y\nhappened. Even if we grant that the Armenians *did* do what Cosar\naccuses them of doing, this has no bearing on whether the Turks did\nwhat they are accused of.\n\nWhile I can understand how an AI could be this stupid, I\ncan't understand how a human could be such a moron as to either let\nsuch an AI run amok or to compose such pointless messages himself.\n\nI do not expect any followup to this article from Argic to do anything\nto alleviate my puzzlement. But maybe I'll see a new line from his\nlist of insults.", "Accounts of Anti-Armenian Human Right Violations in Azerbaijan #012\n Prelude to Current Events in Nagorno-Karabakh\n\n +---------------------------------------------------------+\n | |\n | I saw a naked girl with her hair down. They were |\n | dragging her. She kept falling because they were |\n | pushing her and kicking her. She fell down, it was |\n | muddy there, and later other witnesses who saw it from |\n | their balconies told us, they seized her by the hair |\n | and dragged her a couple of blocks, as far as the |\n | mortgage bank, that's a good block and a half or two |\n | from here. I know this for sure because I saw it |\n | myself. |\n | |\n +---------------------------------------------------------+\n\n\nDEPOSITION OF TATYANA MIKHAILOVNA ARUTUNIAN (NEZHINTSEVA)\n\n Born 1932\n Train Conductor\n Azerbaijani Railroad\n\n Resident at Building 13/15, Apartment 27\n Microdistrict No. 3\n Sumgait [Azerbaijan]\n\nI hadn't lived very long in Sumgait, only eight years. I moved there from\nNovosibirsk. My son entered the Baku Nautical School, and so I transferred\nto Azerbaijan. Later I met someone and married him, and now my name is\nArutunian, my husband's name . . .\n\nThat there would be a massacre was not discussed openly, but there were hints \nand gibes, so to speak, at the Armenian people, and they were mocking the \nRussians, too. I was constantly aware of it at work, and not just this past \nyear. I couldn't find a definite place for myself in the pool at work because \nI, I'll just say it, couldn't steal, couldn't deceive, and couldn't be \ninvolved in bribe-taking. And when I asked for decent working conditions they \ntold me, \"Leave, don't keep the others from working, you aren't cut out for \nthis kind of work.\" And at work and around all the time I would hear gibes at \nthe Armenians, like \"The Turks had it right, they killed them all--the way\nthey've multiplied here they're making it hard for us to live,\" and \"Things \nwill be just fine if we get rid of them all.\" \"No problem, the Turks will \nhelp,\" they say, \"if we ask them, they'll rid Armenia of Armenians in half an \nhour.\" Well that's the way it all was, but I never thought, of course that it \nwould spill over into a bloody tragedy, because you just couldn't imagine it. \nHere we've been living under the Soviet government for 70 years, and no one \neven considered such an idea possible.\n\nBut I had been forming my own opinions, and in the presence of authoritative \npeople I would often ask, \"Where is this all leading, do people really not see\nwhat kind of situation is emerging here. The Russians are fleeing Sumgait, \nthere are very few of them left. Why is no one dealing with this, what's going\non?\" And when it all happened on the 27th and 28th, it became clear that \neverything had been arranged by someone, because what else are you to make of \nit if the First Secretary of the City Party Committee is marching ahead of the\ndemonstration with an Azerbaijani flag? I wouldn't be saying this now if I \nhadn't received personal confirmation from him later. Because when we were \nunder guard in the SK club on the 1st, he came to the club, that Muslimzade. \nThe women told me, \"There he is, there he is, that's Muslimzade.\" I didn't \nbelieve the rumors that he had carried an Azerbaijani flag. I thought that \nthey were just false rumors. I went over to him and said, \"Are you the First \nSecretary of our City Party Committee?\" He answers me, \"Yes.\" And I ask him, \n\"Tell me, did you really march ahead of that gang carrying an Azerbaijani \nflag, and behind you they were carrying denigrating signs, I don't know \nexactly what they said, but there was mention of Armenian blood?\" And he tells\nme, \"Yes, I was there, but I tried to dissuade them from it.\" Then I asked him\nanother question: \"And where were you when they were burning and slaughtering \nus? And he said, \"I. . . We didn't know what to do, we didn't know, we didn't \nanticipate that that would happen in Sumgait.\"\n\nComrade Mamedov, the First Deputy Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the \nAzerbaijani SSR, answered the same question for me: \"No, we actually didn't \nanticipate the slaughter in Sumgait. At that time we were trying to contain \nthe crowd of 45,000 in Baku that was preparing for a massacre.\" Those are his \nexact words, the ones he said in the office of the Council of Ministers of the\nArmenian SSR.\n\nAnd now, about the events themselves. Of course it's painful to discuss them, \nbecause it may seem that it's not true to someone else. Various rumors \nconcerning what happened are making the rounds: some are true, others aren't. \nBut unfortunately there are more true ones than false, because it was so \nhorrible: in our age, here in the space age, the age of science, the age of\nprogress, I don't know, if someone had told me this story, if I were living in\nor around Moscow, I wouldn't have believed it. Why not? Because it was really \na genocide, it was a massacre. That's genuinely what it was.\n\nFor example, on that day, the 28th--I didn't know about the 27th because my \nhusband and I were both sick, both of us had the flu, and we were in bed--on \nthe 28th our neighbor comes to our place and says, \"You're in bed? You don't \nknow anything about it? There was a demonstration in town, and after it they \nwere overturning Armenian cars and burning them. They were looking into cars \nand asking, 'Are you an Armenian?' If they answered in Armenian, then they \nturned the car over and burned it.\" This isn't made up, the wife of the Senior\nInvestigator of the Baku Ministry of Internal Affairs told us. He was \nreturning home from his dacha with his wife, Raisa Sevastyanova, she's my \nneighbor. She immediately came and told LIS that they had landed right in the \nmiddle of it, I don't know what to call it, the cavalcade of automobiles they \nwere stopping. He answered in Azerbaijani, they let them go, but they made him\nhonk the horn, they were kicking up a fracas. We didn't even believe it, and \nI said, \"Certainly that didn't happen, how can that be?\" And she said, \n\"Muslimzade was leading the crowd, and the Sputnik store was completely\nsmashed because most of the salespeople there are Armenians. And when he saw \nthat they had started breaking the glass in that store, he said, \"Don't break \nthe shop windows, don't destroy state property, but do whatever else you want.\n\" I didn't hear this with my own two ears, but it is a fact that the store was\ntorn up and the director of the store was beaten for employing Armenians \nalthough he's an Azerbaijani.\n\nWhile we were talking, all of a sudden right across from us . . . Sevastyanova\nis the first to look out the window and say, \"Look, there's a crowd out \nthere.\" And sure enough, when we looked out there we saw that the crowd had \nalready started wrecking the neighboring building. There was an Armenian \nfamily there, a woman and two girls. They lived across from us. I'm sorry, I \ndon't know the building number or the people's names, since we were in my \nhusband's apartment, in Microdistrict 8, and I lived in Microdistrict No. 3. \nThere was awful looting going on there at the time, the most hideous things \nwere going on there then. One building there, ours, was attacked twice, once \nwasn't enough for them. They returned to the places where they hadn't finished\nthe Armenians off. If an Azerbaijani family dared to conceal Armenians, they \nbeat the Azerbaijanis too. They also beat Russians, if it was Russians doing \nthe hiding. Because there were Russians among them, they said so on \ntelevision, there were people of various nationalities. But they didn't tell \nus why there were people of different nationalities. Because they wouldn't \nhave touched the Azerbaijanis if they hadn't dared to stick up for the \nArmenians and give them temporary shelter in their homes.\n\nAt the time I saw this from the window I was there, Sevastyanova was there, \nand so was my husband. We went out onto the balcony and saw a television fly \noff a balcony. All kinds of things, even a sofa. Then, when it was all down \nthere, they burned it up. Then we saw the crowd, and they were all oohing. At \nfirst I couldn't figure out what was happening. And later I told my husband, \n\"Lendrush, l think they're beating someone out there.\" And he answered, \"I \ndon't know, could be.\" Suddenly the crowd separated for a moment, and I saw \nit, and Raisa Sevastyanova saw it too. My husband had turned the other way, \nhe didn't see it. I saw a naked girl with her hair down. They were dragging \nher. She kept falling because they were pushing her and kicking her. She fell \ndown, it was muddy there, and later other witnesses who saw it from their \nbalconies told us, they seized her by the hair and dragged her a couple of \nblocks, as far as the mortgage bank, that's a good block and a half or two \nfrom here. I know this for sure because I saw it myself.\n\nThen the crowd rushed toward our building. We were standing there, and you can\nof course imagine what we were feeling. Were they going to kill us or not? And\nI also had the awful thought that they might torment me the way they tormented\nthat woman, because I had just seen that.\n\nI asked my husband. I gave him an axe and said, \"You kill me first, and then \nlet them do what they want with the corpse.\" But our neighbors, it's true, \ndefended us, they said, \"There aren't any Armenians in our entryway, go away, \nonly Muslims live here.\" Disaster missed us that time.\n\nBut at two o'clock in the morning a crowd of about 15 people, approximately, \ncame back to our place. My husband was already asleep. He can sleep when he's \nupset about something, but I can't. I was standing, running from balcony to \nbalcony. Our power was out, I don't remember for how long, but it was as \nthough it had been deliberately turned off. There were no lights whatsoever, \nand I was glad, of course. I thought it was better that way. But then I look \nand the crowd is at our balcony. This was at 2:15 in the morning. The first \ntime they were at our building it was 6:30, and now it was 2:15 in the \nmorning. But I never thought that that old woman on the first floor, the \nAzerbaijani, was awake and watching out, there were human beings among them \ntoo. So she goes out with a pail of garbage, as though she needed to be taking\ngarbage out at two o'clock in the morning. She used it as a pretext and went \ntoward those young people. They really were youngsters. From my balcony you \ncould see perfectly that they were young Azerbaijani boys. They spoke \nAzerbaijani. And when they came up to her she said, \"What do you want?\" And \nthey answered, \"We want the Armenian family that lives here\" [pointing toward \nthe second floor with their hands]. She says, \"I already told you, we don't \nhave any Armenians here, now leave, do you hear, this is an old Muslim woman \ntalking to you,\" and grabbed the hand of one boy who was trying to walk around\nher and enter the building anyway and started pushing him away. And so they \nseemed to listen to her. They were all very young, they started apologizing \nand left. That was the second time death was at our door.\n\nI forgot to mention about one other apartment, a man named Rubik lives there, \nI don't know him really, I knew his daughter, I mean I saw her around, but we \nreally didn't know them. But I do know that that guy who lives on the fourth \nfloor across from our entryway went to Chernobyl and worked there for eight \nmonths, to earn money. Can you imagine what that means? He risked his life to \nearn X amount of money in order to better his family. He bought new furniture \nand was getting ready to give his daughter's hand in marriage, but, alas,\neverything was ruined by those creeps and scoundrels. They threw everything \nout the windows, and the rest we saw from our balcony: how the neighbors on \nthe left and right ran into the apartment and carried off everything that \nhadn't already been smashed or taken. What is one to think of that? It means \nthat the parents in those families were in on it too. Unfortunately I came to \nbe of the opinion that it was all organized and that everything had been \nforeseen in advance: both the beating of the Armenians and the stripping of \napartments. Something on the order of \"We'll move the Armenians out and take \nover their apartments.\"\n\nI have worked honestly my whole life, you can check everything about me. I \ncame as a patriot from China, waited for nights on end in front of the \nConsulate General of the USSR, I came to my homeland as a patriot because I \nknew that the Party and the Komsomol were holy things. But when I saw in \nSumgait that there wasn't anything holy about them, that Party membership was \nbought, that Komsomol members joined only for personal gain, that there were \nno ideals, no ideas, God save me, everything was being bought and sold, I saw \nall of it and understood how they could allow that crap to go on like it did.\n\nI can't talk any more about it . . . the image of that beating . . . When I\nwent out of my own apartment--they picked us up under Soviet Army guard, they \nhad arrived from all over to suppress that gang--not only Armenians, but some \nRussian families and their children, too, came out of their apartments and\njoined us, because no normal person who had seen that could stay there with \nthe situation the way it was. And what's interesting is that when we left on \nthe buses I rode and thought that at least one group of people, for sure \npeople would basically rise to the situation, would have some compassion for \nthe Armenians, would somehow understand the injustice of what was done. But \nhaving analyzed and weighed the whole thing, once I calmed down, having \nthought it all through, I came to a conclusion that is shared by many people. \nIf a lot of Azerbaijanis didn't want their Armenian neighbors to be killed, \nand that basically depended on that Muslimzade--he said that he had wanted to \ncalm them down--then is it possible that he didn't have people at hand to whom\nhe could whisper at the last minute, \"Go and announce it on television: \nCitizens of Sumgait! Take what you can into your hands, let's protect our \nneighbors from this massacre?\" Those crowds weren't such that there was no \ncontrolling them. Basically they were unarmed. They didn't have firearms, \nmostly they had knives, they had all kinds of metal parts, like armature \nshafts, sharpened at the ends, special rocks, different to a degree that we \nnoticed them: there aren't rocks like those in Sumgait soils, they were \nbrought from somewhere, as though it were all specially planned. So as I was \nsaying, I weighed it all out and if any of our neighbors had wanted to defend \nus, why wasn't it arranged? It means that the government didn't want to do \nit. When the crowd was moving from the City Party Committee to the Sputnik, \nwhat, there was no way of informing Baku? No, there was no way, it turns out!\nThe crowd was doing violence in our microdistrict. I won't mention the things \nI didn't see myself, I'll only talk about the things I myself witnessed. They \nwere in Microdistrict 8 beginning at 6 o'clock in the evening, when I saw them\nfrom the other building, and they were somewhere else until mid-night or one \no'clock in the morning, because at 2:15 they came back to our building. They\nhadn't completely finished making their predatory rounds of Microdistrict 8. \nWhen they returned to our building I told my husband, \"Lendrush, now the \npolice are probably going to come, my God, now the authorities are probably \ngoing to find out and come to our aid.\" Well, alas, no, there were to be no \nauthorities, not a single policeman, not a single fireman, not a single \nambulance came while they were raging, as it turns out, as we later found out,\nbeginning on the Might of the 27th. There were dead people, ruined apartments,\nand burned autos: one car near the bus station, it was burned and overturned, \nit was probably there about four days, everyone saw it and what went on in \nBlock 45! Those who live there know, they saw from their balconies how they \nattacked the soldiers in the buses, how they beat those poor, unarmed\nsoldiers, and how on that square, I can't remember the name of it, where there\nis that fork coming from the bus station, that intersection, now I'm upset and\nI can't think of the name . . . there's a tall building there, a 9-story, and \nfrom the balconies there people saw that butchery, when the poor soldiers, \nwearing only helmets, with shields and those unfortunate clubs, moved against \nthat mob. And when they fell, those 12-to 14-year-old boys ran up and using \nstones, big heavy stones, beat them to death on their heads. Who could have \nguessed that something like that could happen in the Soviet Union and under \nthe Soviet government? The upshot is that this republic has not been under \nSoviet control for a long time, but no one wanted to pay any attention or get \ninvolved.\n\nIf you were to go and ask at my work many people would confirm that I tell the\ntruth, I've been struggling for truth for five years there already, the five \nyears that I worked at the Azerbaijani railroad. Some people there considered \nme a demagogue, others who knows what; some think I'm an adventure seeker, and\nsome, a prankster. But I wanted everything to be right, I would become\noutraged: how can this be, why is it people treat one another this way on a \nSoviet railroad, as though the Azerbaijani railroad were Azerbaijani property,\nor the property of some magnate, or some \"mafia\": If I want to, I'll get you \nout of here; If I want to, I'll get rid of you; If I want to, I'll do \nsomething else? And there's a black market price for everything, in the most \nbrazen way: a coach to Moscow costs so much, a coach on a local train costs so\nmuch. Once when I was complaining to the head of the conductor's pool, he had \nthe nerve to tell me, maybe you won't even believe this, but this, I'm afraid,\nI heard with my own ears: \"Tatyana, just how long can you fight for something\nthat you know will never have any effect? You're alone against everyone, so \ninstead why don't you give more money to the chief conductor, and everything \nwill go fine for you.\" I started to cry, turned, and left. What else could I \ndo, where else could I go to complain? I realized that everything was useless.\nAnd the root of the whole thing is that it all goes on and no one wants to see\nit. I filed a written complaint, and they ground it into dust, they destroyed \nit, I still have a copy, but what's the use? When the General Procuracy got \ninvolved with the investigation of the bloody Sumgait affair, in addition to \nthe information about what I saw, what I was a witness to, I gave testimony \nabout the mafia at the railroad. They accepted my petition, but I don't know \nif they're going to pursue it or not. Because, you'll excuse me, I no longer \nbelieve in the things I aspired to, the things I believed in before: It's all \ndead. They just spit on my soul, stomped on everything, physically, and most \nimportant, spiritually, because you can lose belongings, that's nonsense, that\nall comes with time, but when your soul is spit upon and when the best in \nyou--your beliefs--are destroyed, it can be very difficult to restore them...\n\nI want to tell of one incident. I just don't know, at the time I was in such a\nstate that I didn't even take minor things into account. Here is an example.\nOf course, it's not a minor one. My neighbor, Raisa Sevastyanova, she has a\nson, Valery, who is in the 9th grade in a school in Microdistrict 8. A boy,\nVitaly [Danielian], I don't know his last name, goes to school with him, or\nrather, went to school with him. I was just sitting in an apartment trying to\nmake a phone call to Moscow . . . Oh yes, and there's one important detail:\nWhen the massacre began, for two to three hours the phones weren't working in \nArmenian apartments, and later, in several Russian and Azerbaijani apartments.\nBut the fact of the matter is that service was shut off, you could not call \nanywhere. Why? Again, it means it was all planned. How come service is cut off\nfor no reason? And the lights went off. And those brats were raging as they\nliked They weren't afraid, they ran about freely, they that no one would slap \ntheir hands and no one would dare to stop them. They knew it.\n\nNow I'm going to tell about the incident. So this little Vitaly, Vitalik, an\nArmenian boy, went to school with Valery; they were in the same class. \nAccording to what Valery and his neighbor pal said--at the time I was in the\nsame apartment as they were, I sat at the phone waiting for the call to be put\nthrough--a mob attacked the building where Vitalik lived. So Valery ran to\nhis mother and said, \"Mamma, please let me go to Vitalik's, what if they kill\nhim? Maybe he's still alive, maybe we can bring him here and save him somehow.\n. . . He's a nice guy, we all like him, he's a good person, he's smart.\" His \nmother wouldn't let him go. In tears, she says, \"Valery, you can't go because \nI am afraid.\" He says, \"Mamma, we can get around the crowd. We'll just watch, \njust have a look.\" They made it through. I don't know, I think Vitalik's\nparents lived in Microdistrict No. 1, and when they got there, they made a \nsuperficial deduction. Knowing that balconies and doors were being broken \neverywhere, that you could see from the street which were the Armenian \napartments in the building, they went here and there and looked, and saw that \nthe windows were intact, and so they calmed down. But even though the windows \nin that apartment were not broken, everything inside was totally smashed, and \nVitalik lay there with a broken skull, and his mother and father had already \nbeen murdered. Little Vitalik didn't even know they were dead. So two weeks \nago, I don't know, he was in critical condition, no, maybe it was longer: we \nleft Sumgait on March 20, spent some time in Moscow, and then we came to \nYerevan. So it's been about a month already; it's so hard to keep all this \nstraight. So Valery, the next day, when he found out that Vitalik's family has\nbeen killed and Vitalik was ling in the Semashko Hospital in Baku, Valery and\nhis classmates got together and went to visit him. But they wouldn't admit \nthem, telling them that he was in critical condition and that he was still in \na coma. They cried and left, having also found out that the girl I saw being \nkicked and dragged was in that hospital too. As it turns out she was brought \nthere in serious condition, but at least she was alive at the time . . .\n\nWhen we got to the SK club we would see first one friend and then another, \nthrow ourselves into their arms and kiss them, because you had wondered if \nthese friends were alive or not, if those friends were alive or not . . . And\nwhen you saw them you were so glad to find out that the family had lived! When\nyou saw people you heard things that made your hair stand on end.\n\nIf you publish everything that happened it will be a hideous book. A book of \nthings it is even difficult to believe. And those two girls who were raped \nwere entirely black and blue, the ones at the SK, they know I'm not lying, \nthat girlfriend came up to one of them and said, \"What happened?\" and she \nbared her breasts, and they were completely covered in cigarette burns . . . \nthose rogues had put cigarettes out on her breasts. After something like that \nI don't know how you can live in a city and look at the people in it.\n\nNow . . . When we stayed at the military unit for a while, they provided,\nwell, basic conditions for us there. The military unit is located in Nasosny,\nsome six miles from Sumgait. And living there we met with a larger group\nof people. There were about 1,600 people at the unit. You know, there was a\npoint when I couldn't even go outside because if you went outside you saw\nso much heartbreak around you. And when you hear the false rumors . . .\n\nYes, by the way, false rumors were spread in Sumgait saying that the Armenians\naround Yerevan had destroyed Azerbaijani villages and razed them to the ground\nwith bulldozers. I didn't know whether to believe it or not. And people who \ndon't know any better get the idea that it was all done in revenge. But when \nI arrived in Armenia and was in Spitak, and in Spitak all those villages are \nnot only intact, but at that time had even been protected just in case, they \nwere guarded, they got better food than did the inhabitants of Spitak. Not a \nsingle person there died, and no one is planning to harm them. Around Yerevan \nall the villages are safe and unharmed, and the Armenians didn't attack \nanyone. But actually, after an evil of the magnitude suffered in Sumgait there\ncould have been a feeling of vengefulness, but no one acted on it. And I don't\nknow why you sometimes hear accusations to the effect that the Armenians are \nguilty, that it is they who organized it. Rumors like that are being spread in\nAzerbaijan. And if one old person says it and ten young ones hear it, they not\nonly perceive it with their minds, but with their hearts, too. To them it \nseems that the older person is telling the truth. For example, one says; \"Did \nyou know that out of 31 people killed (by the way, originally they said 31 \npeople, but later they found a 32nd), 30 were Azerbaijani and one was an \nArmenian?\"\n\nOf course I'm upset, but it's utterly impossible to discuss such things and\nnot become upset. Sometimes l forget things, but I know I want to return to\nthe time when we were in the SK club across from the City Party Committee.\nWhen I saw Muslimzade in the SK club building I went to him to ask because I \ncouldn't believe that he had marched in the front carrying a banner. I already\nmentioned this, and if I repeat anything, please excuse me. I asked him, \"Why \ndid you do that and why are you here now, why did you come here? To laugh at \nthese women who are strewn about on the floor?\" The overcrowding there was \ntremendous, it was completely unsanitary, and several of the children were\nalready sick. It's true the troops tried to make it livable for us. They \ncooked for us on their field stoves and provided us with wonderful food, but \nthe thing is that their main job was to ferret out the gang that was still at \nit everywhere, that was continuing its sordid affairs everywhere. Plus they \nwere never given any direct orders, they didn't know what they were authorized\nto do and not to do. And it was only on March 8 at five o'clock in the evening\nthat Krayev himself, the Lieutenant General, the City Commandant of Sumgait, \nwas given full authority and told everyone over a microphone from an armored \npersonnel carrier that now he could do what he wanted to do, as his heart \nadvised him, and relocate people to the military unit.\n\nBut that's not what I want to talk about now. Muslimzade, characteristically, \ntried to get me out of the SK building and take me to the City Party\nCommittee, which is across the square from the club. He took me by the\nhand and said, \"Citizen, don't worry, we'll go and have a talk in my office.\nI told him, \"No, after everything you've done, I don't believe one iota of \nwhat you say. If I go to the City Party Committee I'll disappear, and the \ntraces of me will disappear too. Because you can't stand it when . . . \" Oh \nyes, and there was another interesting detail from that meeting. It was even \nvery funny, although at the time I wasn't up to laughing. He was in a nice, \nexpensive hat, and so as to put him to shame, so to speak, I said, \"Oh, why \ndid you come here all duded up like a London dandy, you smell of good perfume,\nyou're in your starched shirt, and you have your expensive hat on. You came\nto ridicule the poor women and children who are lying on the floor, who are\nalready getting sick, whose relatives have died. Did you come to laugh at\nthem?\" And the one who was accompanying him, an Azerbaijani, I don't know who \nhe was or what his title was, he quickly snatched the hat off Muslimzade's head \nand hid it. Then I said, \"My God! We're not marauders. We're not you! We \ndidn't come to you with the intention of stealing!\" \"Well kill me, kill me!\" \nMuslimzade says to me, \"But I'm not guilty . . . kill me, kill me, but I'm not\nguilty.\" And I say, \"OK, fine, you're not guilty, have it your way. But give \nus an answer, we're asking you: Where were you when they were torturing and \nraping those poor women, when they were killing the children, burning things, \ncarrying on outrageously, and wrecking all those apartments? Where were you \nthen?\" \"You know, we didn't expect it, we did not know what to do, we didn't \nanticipate that something like that would happen in Sumgait.\" I started \nlaughing and said, \"It's truly funny.\" He says, \"What could I do? We didn't \nknow what to do.\" And I say, \"I'm sorry, but it'll be ridiculous if I tell \nyou: The First Secretary of the City Party Committee shouldn't march out in \nfront with a banner; he should fall down so that the gang would have to cross \nover his dead body. That's what you should have done. That's the way it was \nduring the war. Not a single party committee secretary compromised himself;\neither he died or he led people into battle. And what did you do? You ran \naway, you left, you hid, you marched with a flag, because you were afraid, \nexcuse my language, you feared for your own damned hide. And when we ask you, \nyou tell us that you got confused and you ask me what you could have done? \nThat's right,\" I told him, \"the City party committee got confused, all the \nparty committees got confused, the police got confused,. Baku got confused, \nthey all lay in a faint for two weeks, and the gang ran the show with \nimpunity. And if it weren't for the troops it wouldn't have been just two \ndays, there wouldn't be a single Armenian left in Sumgait for sure, they would \nhave finished their bloody affair, because they brazenly went up to some \nRussians, too, the ones who tried to say something to them, and they told \nthem, 'As soon as we finish with the Armenians we'll come after you, too.\"\n\nAnd by the way, there was a colonel, who took us to the military unit. He was\nthe one with the light blue collar tabs who flew in and two hours later\narrived on an armored personnel carrier when we were at the SK and took us to\nthe military unit and who later started moving us from the military unit. We \nasked him, \"What? How? What will come of us?\" He openly said, \"You know, for \nus the main thing now is to catch that gang. We'll finish that quickly. You'll\nstay at the military unit for the time being, and we'll decide later.\" The \nGeneral Procuracy of the USSR arrived, it consists of investigators from all \ncities. There were some from Stavropol, from everywhere, just everywhere, because \nthe affair was truly frightful. About this, by the way, Comrade Katusev spoke;\nas everyone knows, he's the First Deputy General Procurator of the USSR. When \nhe gave us a speech from the armored personnel carrier at the military unit, \nby the way, he told us the honest truth, because he couldn't not say it, \nbecause he was still experiencing his first impressions of what he had seen, \nand he said, \"There was Afghanistan; and it was bad, but Sumgait--it's\nhorrible! And the people who dared to do such a thing will be severely \npunished, in accordance with our laws.\" And that's a quote. Then one mother \nthrows herself at him--her two sons had died before her very eyes--and says,\n\"Who will return my sons? Who is going to punish the [culprits]?\" They tried \nto calm her down, and he said, \"In order for us to conduct a proper \ninvestigation, in order that not a single scoundrel avoid responsibility, you \nmust help us, because we don't know, maybe there was someone else in the gang \nwho is now being concealed in homes, and maybe the neighbors know, maybe \nsomeone saw something. Don't be afraid, write about it in detail. So that \nyou're not afraid . . . Everyone knows that many of you are afraid, having \nlived through such horrors, they think that if they write the whole truth \nabout, let's say, their neighbor or someone else, that they will seek revenge \nlater. We're going to do it like this: We're going to set up an urn and you \ncan throw what you write in there. We don't need to know who wrote it. The \nnames of the people who write won't be made public, but we need all the\ninformation. Let each and every one not be afraid, let each write what is \nnecessary, who they saw in that gang, who made threats or shouted threatening \ngibes about the Armenians . . . You must describe all of these people and put \nthe information into the urn.\"\n\nTwo soldiers and a major guarded the urn. And, sure enough, many people, \npeople who didn't even want to write . . .I know one woman who asked me, she \ncame up and said, \"You, as a Russian, the same thing won't happen to you as \nwill happen to me. So please . . . I'll give you the information, and you \nplease write it down for me.\" So she was afraid, and there were a lot like\nher . . . But later, after Katusev made his speech, she sat and wrote down\neverything she knew. And we threw it all into the urn. Now we don't know if \nit will be of any use. For a factual picture will emerge from all that \ninformation. One person can lie, but thousands can't lie, thousands simply \ncan't lie. You have to agree with that, a fact is a fact. Why, for example, \nshould someone say that black is white if it is really black?\n\n The First Deputy Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the Azerbaijani\nSSR, Mamedov, as I said, was in Yerevan. My husband and I were at the Council \nof Ministers of the Armenian SSR and found out that Mamedov was present, the \none who had come to convince the people of Sumgait to return to their \nprevious dwellings, to their old apartments. We asked for a meeting with him, \nand it was granted. When we went to see him he tried to behave properly, very \npolitely, delicately, but . . . when the truth was told right to his face and \nwhen I asked him some of the same questions I had asked Muslimzade, \"Where were\nyou personally when they were beating us? Now you're trying to convince us to \nreturn, why didn't you think at the time that they were slaughtering us where \nit was all leading?\" he says, \"You're telling the truth. Let's not mince \nwords. You've told me right to my face, and I'll tell you straight. I'll tell \nyou the pure truth. I was gotten out of bed in the evening, the whole \ngovernment was up, including me, and we were restraining a crowd of about \n45,000 in Baku. But we never expected that in a city like Sumgait, with its \nfine international record, such a thing could happen. We expected it in Baku.\"\nI say, \"So that means you expected it all the same? Why were you expecting \nit?\" And he says, \"You know, it just happened that way. We were expecting it \nin Baku, we were trying to restrain it, but in Sumgait . . . \" I say, \"Fine, \nyou didn't know for the first three or four hours, but then you should have \nknown. Why did no one help us?\" And he says, \"Well, OK, we didn't know what to\ndo\" and things like that. Basically it was the same story I got from \nMuslimzade. Later, when he said, \"You go on back, the situation in Sumgait is \nfavorable now, everything is fine, the Armenians are friendly with the \nAzerbaijanis . . . \" To this l answered, \"You know what . . . I'm speaking \nwith you as a [member of a] neutral nation . . . I have never argued with \nArmenians or with Azerbaijanis and I was an eyewitness . . . You tell me, \nplease, Comrade Mamedov, \" I asked him, \"What would you say about this\nhonestly, if you were being completely frank with us?\" Then he said, \"Yes, I \nadmit that I am honestly ashamed, shame on the entire Azerbaijani nation, we \nhave disgraced ourselves not only before the entire Soviet Union, but before \nthe whole world. Because now the Voice of America and all the other foreign \nradio stations of various hues are branding us with all kinds of rumors, too.\"\nAnd I say, \"There's nothing to add to what really happened. I don't think it's\npossible to add anything more awful.\" He says, \"Yes, I agree with you, I \nunderstand your pain, it is truly an unfortunate occurrence.\" I repeat that he\nsaid \"unfortunate occurrence.\" And then he suddenly remembered himself, what \nhe was saying--he had a pen in his hands, he was fidgeting with it nervously--\nand said, \"Oh, excuse me, a tragedy, really . . . \" I take this to mean that \nhe really thinks it's an \"unfortunate occurrence.\" \"And of course,\" he says, \n\"I understand that having gone through all this you can't return to Sumgait, \nbut it's necessary to cool down and realize that all those people are being \ntried.\" And he even gave a detail, which, I don't know if it matters or not, \nthat 160 policemen were being tried. Specifically in relation to that bloody \naffair.\n\nYes, by the way, there is another good detail, how I was set up at work in\nBaku after the events. I went to an undergarment plant, there was an \nAzerbaijani working there, and suddenly she tells me, \"What, they didn't\nnail your husband? They screwed up.\" I was floored, I hadn't imagined that\nanyone in Baku, too, could say something like that. Well after that I went up\nto see . . . to my office, I needed to find out about those days, what was\ngoing to happen with them, how they were going to put down those days from \nFebruary 29 to March 10 . . . and the administrator told me, \"I don't know, \nTatyana, go to the head of the conductors' pool. Be grateful if they don't \nput it down as unexcused absence.\" I was really discouraged by this. They all \nknow that we were but a hair away from death and barely survived, and here \nthey're telling me that I was skipping work, as though I was off enjoying \nmyself somewhere. I went to the office of the chief of the pool, his last name\nis Rasulov, and he's had that position for many years. Incidentally, he's a \nParty member, and is a big man in town. And suddenly, when I went to him and \nsaid, \"Comrade Rasulov, this is the way it was . . . \" He looked at me askance\nand said, \"And why are you\"--he knows me by my previous last name--\"why did\nyou get wrapped up in this mess?\" I say, \"What do you mean, why did I get \nwrapped up in this mess? My husband's an Armenian,\" I tell him, \"I have an \nArmenian last name.\" And he screwed up his face, made a kind of a grimace, as \nthough he had eaten something sour, and said, \"I didn't expect that you would\n. . . \" What did he mean by that? And \"how\" should he behave, the chief of the\npool, a man who supervises 1,700 workers? Now, it's true, there was a \nreduction, but for sure there are still 1,200 conductors working for him. And \nif someone who supervises a staff that size says things like that, then what \ncan you expect from a simple, uneducated, politically unsophisticated person?!\nHe's going to believe any and all rumors, that the Armenians are like this, \nthe Armenians are like that, and so on . . .\n\nBy the way, that Mamedov--now I'm going back to Mamedov's office when I asked \nhim \"Are you really going to guarantee the safety of our lives if we return \nto Sumgait?\" he answered, \"Yes, you know, I would guarantee them . . . I don't\nwant to take on too much, I would guarantee them firmly for 50 years. But I \nwon't guarantee them for longer than 50 years.\" I say, \"So you've got another\nthing like that planned for 50 years from now? So they'll be quiet and then \nin another 50 years it'll happen again?!\" I couldn't contain myself any more,\nand I also told him, \"And how did it get to that point, certainly you knew\nabout it, how they were treating the Russians, for example, in Baku and in \nSumgait, how they were hounded from their jobs? Certainly you received\ncomplaints, I wrote some myself. Why did no one respond to them? Why did \neveryone ignore what was going on? Didn't you prepare people for this by the \nway you treated them?\" And he says, \"You know, you're finally starting to \ninsult me!\" He threw his pen on the desk. \"Maybe now you'll say I'm a \nscoundrel too?\" I say, \"You know, I'm not talking about you because I don't \nknow. But about the ones who I do know I can say with conviction, yes, that \ncomrade was involved in this, that, and that, because I know for certain.\n\"Well anyway he assured us that here, in Yerevan, there were false rumors, \nthat 3,000 Sumgait Armenians were here, and 15,000 were in Sumgait and had \ngotten back to work. Everyone was working, he said, and life was very good. \n\"We drove about the town ourselves, Comrade Arutiunian [First Secretary of \nthe Communist Party of Armenia SSR] came from the Council of Ministers of \nArmenian, he came and brought information showing that everything was fine in\nSumgait.\" When I asked Mamedov how he had reached that conclusion he said, '\n\"Well, I walked down the street.\" And I said, \"Walking down the street in any \ncity, even if I were to go to New York, I would never understand the situation\nbecause I would be a guest, I don't have any contact with people, but if you \nspend 10 days among some blue-collar workers in such a way that they didn't \nknow you were the First Deputy Chairman of the Council of Ministers, you'd \nhear something quite different.\" I told him, for example, that I drew my \nconclusion when we left the military unit to look at our apartments. They took\nus all in turns to pick things up, since people had fled to the military unit;\nthey got on the bus just to save themselves as soon as possible. How are the \nneighbors in the microdistrict, how will they view us, what do they think? I \nthought maybe that in fact it wasn't something general, of a mass nature, some\nanti-national something. And when that bus took us to our building, because it\nwas the same bus, while we were going up to our apartment, an armed soldier \naccompanied us. What does that say? It speaks of the fact that if everything \nthere were fine, why do we need to have soldiers go there and come back with\nus, going from apartment to apartment? And in fact, especially with the young \npeople, you could sense the delight at our misfortune, the grins, and they \nwere making comments, too. And that was in the presence of troops, when police\ndetachments were in the microdistricts and armored personnel carriers and \ntanks were passing by. And if people are taking such malicious delight when \nthe situation is like that, then what is it going to be like when they \nwithdraw protection from the city altogether? There will be more outrages, of \ncourse, perhaps not organized, but in the alleys . . .\n\n April 20, 1988\n Yerevan\n\n\t\t - - - reference - - -\n\n[1] _The Sumgait Tragedy; Pogroms against Armenians in Soviet Azerbaijan,\n Volume I, Eyewitness Accounts_, edited by Samuel Shahmuradian, forward by\n Yelena Bonner, 1990, published by Aristide D. Caratzas, NY, pages 166-177\n\n", "From article <1qvgu5INN2np@lynx.unm.edu>, by osinski@chtm.eece.unm.edu (Marek Osinski):\n\n\nThessaloniki is called Thessaloniki by its inhabitants for the last 2300 years.\nThe city was never called Solun by its inhabitants.\nInstabul was called Konstantinoupolis from 320 AD until about the 1920s.\nThat's about 1600 years. There many people alive today who were born in a city\ncalled Konstantinoupolis. How many people do you know that were born in a city \ncalled Solun.", "\n\nLet us not forget about the genocide of the Azeri people in 'Karabag' \nand x-Soviet Armenia by the Armenians. Between 1914 and 1920, Armenians \ncommitted unheard-of crimes, resorted to all conceivable methods of \ndespotism, organized massacres, poured petrol over babies and burned \nthem, raped women and girls in front of their parents who were bound \nhand and foot, took girls from their mothers and fathers and appropriated \npersonal property and real estate. And today, they put Azeris in the most \nunbearable conditions any other nation had ever known in history.\n \n\nAREF SADIKOV sat quietly in the shade of a cafe-bar on the\nCaspian Sea esplanade of Baku and showed a line of stitches in\nhis trousers, torn by an Armenian bullet as he fled the town of\nHojali just over three months ago, writes Hugh Pope.\n\n\"I'm still wearing the same clothes, I don't have any others,\"\nthe 51-year-old carpenter said, beginning his account of the\nHojali disaster. \"I was wounded in five places, but I am lucky to\nbe alive.\"\n\nMr Sadikov and his wife were short of food, without electricity\nfor more than a month, and cut off from helicopter flights for 12\ndays. They sensed the Armenian noose was tightening around the\n2,000 to 3,000 people left in the straggling Azeri town on the\nedge of Karabakh.\n\n\"At about 11pm a bombardment started such as we had never heard\nbefore, eight or nine kinds of weapons, artillery, heavy\nmachine-guns, the lot,\" Mr Sadikov said.\n\nSoon neighbours were pouring down the street from the direction\nof the attack. Some huddled in shelters but others started\nfleeing the town, down a hill, through a stream and through the\nsnow into a forest on the other side.\n\nTo escape, the townspeople had to reach the Azeri town of Agdam\nabout 15 miles away. They thought they were going to make it,\nuntil at about dawn they reached a bottleneck between the two\nArmenian villages of Nakhchivanik and Saderak.\n\n\"None of my group was hurt up to then ... Then we were spotted by\na car on the road, and the Armenian outposts started opening\nfire,\" Mr Sadikov said.\n\nAzeri militiamen fighting their way out of Hojali rushed forward\nto force open a corridor for the civilians, but their efforts\nwere mostly in vain. Mr Sadikov said only 10 people from his\ngroup of 80 made it through, including his wife and militiaman\nson. Seven of his immediate relations died, including his\n67-year-old elder brother.\n\n\"I only had time to reach down and cover his face with his hat,\"\nhe said, pulling his own big flat Turkish cap over his eyes. \"We\nhave never got any of the bodies back.\"\n\nThe first groups were lucky to have the benefit of covering fire.\nOne hero of the evacuation, Alif Hajief, was shot dead as he\nstruggled to change a magazine while covering the third group's\ncrossing, Mr Sadikov said.\n\nAnother hero, Elman Memmedov, the mayor of Hojali, said he and\nseveral others spent the whole day of 26 February in the bushy\nhillside, surrounded by dead bodies as they tried to keep three\nArmenian armoured personnel carriers at bay.\n\nAs the survivors staggered the last mile into Agdam, there was\nlittle comfort in a town from which most of the population was\nsoon to flee.\n\n\"The night after we reached the town there was a big Armenian\nrocket attack. Some people just kept going,\" Mr Sadikov said. \"I\nhad to get to the hospital for treatment. I was in a bad way.\nThey even found a bullet in my sock.\"\n\nVictims of war: An Azeri woman mourns her son, killed in the\nHojali massacre in February (left). Nurses struggle in primitive\nconditions (centre) to save a wounded man in a makeshift\noperating theatre set up in a train carriage. Grief-stricken\nrelatives in the town of Agdam (right) weep over the coffin of\nanother of the massacre victims. Calculating the final death toll\nhas been complicated because Muslims bury their dead within 24\nhours.\n\nPhotographs: Liu Heung / AP\n Frederique Lengaigne / Reuter\n\nTHE INDEPENDENT, London, 12/6/'92\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nIs that what turns you on? The truth needs to be told over and over \nagain. There are Armenians who of course witnessed the Armenian genocide \nof 2.5 million Muslim people between 1914-1920 but their voices of truth \nare suppressed today in the hollow din of anti-Turkish/Muslim campaign\nby the ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism and Revisionism Triangle of the fascist \nx-Soviet Armenian Government. Well, that is what I saw in the library.\nWhat's your problem with this?\n\n\nSource: K. S. Papazian, \"Patriotism Perverted,\" Baikar Press, Boston, 1934.\n\npp. 17-18.\n\n\"It seems that terrorism against their own co-nationals has been a prominent\n part of the revolutionary activities of the Dashnag leaders of the Caucasus.\n Organized to fight the Turks, these chieftains have been more successful\n in their fight against their Armenian opponents in Turkey, and the Caucasus,\n very often defenseless and innocent.\"\n\np. 38.\n\n\"The fact remains, however, that the leaders of the Turkish Armenian section\n of the Dashnagtzoutune did not carry out their promise of loyalty to the\n Turkish cause when the Turks entered the war...and a call was sent for \n Armenian volunteers to fight the Turks on the Caucasian front.\"\n\np. 38.\n\n\"Thousands of Armenians from all over the world, flocked to the standards of\n such famous fighters as Antranik, Kery, Dro, etc. The Armenian volunteer\n regiments rendered valuable service to the Russian Army in the years of\n 1914-15-16.\"\n\n\nSource: \"Adventures in the Near East, 1918-1922\" by A. Rawlinson,\nJonathan Cape, 30 Bedford Square, London, 1934 (First published 1923) \n(287 pages).\n(Memoirs of a British officer who witnessed the Armenian genocide of 2.5 \n million Muslim people)\n\np. 184 (second paragraph)\n\n \"I had received further very definite information of horrors that\n had been committed by the Armenian soldiery in Kars Plain, and as \n I had been able to judge of their want of discipline by their \n treatment of my own detached parties, I had wired to Tiflis from \n Zivin that 'in the interests of humanity the Armenians should not \n be left in independent command of the Moslem population, as, their \n troops being without discipline and not under effective control, \n atrocities were constantly being committed, for which we should \n with justice eventually be held to be morally responsible'.\"\n\np. 177 (third paragraph)\n\n \"Armenian troops, who, having pillaged and destroyed all the\n Moslem villages in the plain....\"\n\n \"Caravans of refugees were in the meanwhile constantly arriving from the\n plain, from which the whole Moslem population was fleeing with as much of\n their personal property as they could transport, seeking to obtain security\n and protection...\"\n\np. 178 (first paragraph)\n\n \"In those Moslem villages in the plain below which had been searched \n for arms by the Armenians everything had been taken under the cloak of \n such search, and not only had many Moslems been killed, but horrible \n tortures had been inflicted in the endeavour to obtain information as \n to where valuables had been hidden, of which the Armenians were aware \n of the existence, although they had been unable to find them.\"\n\np. 179 (first paragraph)\n\n \"Shortly afterwards the head of the miserable column appeared. There \n were in all about 200 persons, mostly old men and women and children, \n with a few ox-carts, ponies, and donkeys, carrying all their worldly \n possessions, except a few sheep that they were driving before them. \n Their leader interviewed Bekir Bey, and was told to keep farther on \n into the hills, where he would be able to cross the frontier into \n Turkey unmolested by his enemies.\"\n\np. 181 (first paragraph)\n\n \"the Armenians from the plain were attacking the Kurdish line with \n artillery, with probably a large force in support.\"\n\np. 175 (first paragraph)\n\n \"The arrival of this British brigade was followed by the announcement\n that Kars Province had been allotted by the Supreme Council of the\n Allies to the Armenians, and that announcement having been made, the\n British troops were then completely withdrawn, and Armenian occupation\n commenced. Hence all the trouble; for the Armenians at once commenced\n the wholesale robbery and persecution of the Muslem population on the\n pretext that it was necessary forcibly to deprive them of their arms.\n In the portion of the province which lies in the plains they were able\n to carry out their purpose, and the manner in which this was done will\n be referred to in due course.\"\n\nThe following news from Turan News Agency in Baku-Azerbaijan\nis brought to you as a service of:\n\n \n P.O. Box 14571\n Berkeley, CA 94701\n FAX: (804) 490-3832\n Email: farid@mem.odu.edu\n\n* AZERBAIJAN'S GOVERNMENT APPEALS TO COMPATRIOTS ALL OVER THE WORLD\n* 60 REFUGEES FROM KELBAJAR PERISHED IN THEIR ESCAPE LORRIES \n* SITUATION IN THE REGION OF KELBAJAR\n* ARMENIAN ARMY CONTINUES ATTACK ON FIZULI\n* PRESS-CONFERENCE OF THE CHIEF OF PRESS-SERVICE OF PRESIDENT OF AZERBAIJAN \n* AZERBAIJANIS PICKET IN FRONT OF MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS OF RUSSIA\n* PICKET OF SADVALERS IN MOSCOW\n* ATTACK OF ARMENIAN UNITS STOPPED\n* STATEMENT OF MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS OF AZERBAIJAN\n\n\n\nAZERBAIJAN'S GOVERNMENT APPEALS TO COMPATRIOTS ALL OVER THE WORLD\n\n BAKU (APRIL 5) TURAN: Today, Azerbaijan's government appealed \nto Azeris all over the world in connection with escalation of the \nArmenian aggression against the republic. \n It is stressed in appeal that the experience of five-years of fighting\nfor independence from imperial chains shows a grim process . The war\nagainst Azerbaijan under the pretence of protecting the human rights of \nthe Armenians of Ukhari (Upper) Garabag, has meant the destruction of\nAzeri villages and towns, occupation of 10 percent of the territory, 60\nthousand new refugees in addition to 500 thousand already in place.\nThis is all the price of fighting for liberty from Russian imperial rule,\nis said in the document. \n Azerbaijan's government appeals to all compatriots to make every\neffort to inform the people of the world about the truth in Azerbaijan,\nand to assistance in solving the problems facing the young state.\n It is stressed in the appeal that there is urgent need for medicine,\nfood, experienced doctors and financial help to settle refugees from\nKelbajar, Fizuli and Lachin regions, and to render medical aid for the \nsick and the wounded men.--O--\n\n\n60 REFUGEES FROM KELBAJAR PERISHED IN THEIR ESCAPE LORRIES \n\n BAKU (APRIL 5) TURAN: Today, during the evacuation from Kelbajar\nregion, 60 refugees on board two lorries were killed in the fire from the\nArmenian Tanks on the only road to leave Kelbajar. According to press\n-service of Azerbaijan president, no one survived the tragedy. --O--\n\n\nSITUATION IN THE REGION OF KELBAJAR\n\n BAKU (5 APRIL) TURAN: Attempts to evacuate the rest of 15,000\ncitizens, encircled on alpine villages of the region of Kelbajar \nwent on within the last twenty-four hours. Evacuation helicopters\ncould not land near these villages because of shelling from the\nArmenian side and existence of fog. Measures are undertaken to air-drop\nfood and medicine to the encircled people.\n Several hundred people succeed within the last twenty-four hours to\nget out of the region of Kelbajar via mountain range. Refugees are \nsettled in the neighboring regions of Azerbaijan and in Ganja. \nAuthorities face serious problem with rendering refugees medical \naid and food. The number of refugees from Kelbajar is over 40,000 people.\nAzerbaijan is not capable of handling a disaster of this magnitude.--0--\n\n\nARMENIAN ARMY CONTINUES ATTACK ON FIZULI\n\n BAKU (5 APRIL) TURAN: The region of Fizuli of Azerbaijan, \nsituated outside of the territory of Daglig (Nagorno) Garabag, has been\nsubjected to heaviest attacks of Armenian army for the fourth day. About\n30 armored technique and more than 500 soldiers of the enemy are taking\npart in the attack.\n Armenian units broke the defence line of the azeri forces and occupied\nthe ruling height from where the town is shelled from \"Grad\" installations,\nthis morning. There is heavy destructions in the town and more than 20\npeople are dead. Population of the town is hastily evacuated.--0--\n\n\nPRESS-CONFERENCE OF THE CHIEF OF PRESS-SERVICE OF PRESIDENT OF AZERBAIJAN\n\n BAKU (5 APRIL) TURAN: Fifty-five thousand refugees from the region\nof Kelbajar were taken out by 11 o'clock on April 5, informed the chief\nof the press-service of president of Azerbaijan, Arif Aliev, today.\n Journalists were also informed at the press-conference that\nInternational Red Cross is helping to accept and render refugees medical\naid. There is an urgent need to supply the refugees with tents, food and\nmedical aid.\n Arif Aliev informed that as a result of the ongoing tragedy brought\non by the latest aggression of Armenia, the leadership of Azerbaijan\nintends to appeal to Azerbaijanis and all those who treasure human life\nall over the world for help.\n Concerning the reaction of the international community to aggression \nof Armenia, Aliev said the department of state of the USA has expressed\nits anxiety to leadership of Armenia.\n Participants of peace efforts in Daglig (Nagorno) Garabag under\nCSCE, Rafaelli, Mareska and Chetin strongly blamed the aggression of \nArmenia against Azerbaijan.\n Leader of press-service informed that tomorrow ambassador of \nAzerbaijan in Russia, Hikmet Haji-zade, will conduct a press-conference\nin Moscow. Detailed information on latest events in the region of\nKelbajar of Azerbaijan will be given at the press-conference.--0--\n\n\nAZERBAIJANIS PICKET IN FRONT OF MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS OF RUSSIA\n\n BAKU (5 APRIL) TURAN: Azerbaijanis, living in Moscow, picketed\nin front of the building of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Russia.\nPicket was conducted as a token of protest against participation of\nRussian units in capture of the region of Kelbajar of Azerbaijan by\nArmenians. About 100 people took part in the picket, organized by\nAzerbaijani society \"Dayag\".--0--\n\n\nPICKET OF SADVALERS IN MOSCOW\n\n BAKU (5 APRIL) 30-40 members of \"Sadval\" society picketed before\nthe building of permanent representation of Azerbaijan in Moscow.\nPicketers were demanding the return of Lezghins lands, as if annexed\nby Azerbaijan.\n Ambassador of Azerbaijan in Moscow, Hikmet Haji-zade classified\nthis action as provocation aimed at creating a further inter-ethnic\nconflict in Azerbaijan. He marked in his talk with the Turan\ncorrespondent that he does not rule out a connection between the\nArmenian aggression in the region of Kelbajar and this anti-\nazerbaijani action of the \"Sadval\" society in Moscow. He also\nmarked that 30-40 people do not mean the Lezghian nationality in\nthe whole.\n Society of Lezghins, \"Sadval\", registered in Moscow in 1990,\ndemands the creation of a Lezghistan state, which never existed\nbefore on the northern territories of Azerbaijan.--0--\n\n\nATTACK OF ARMENIAN UNITS STOPPED\n\n BAKU (5 APRIL) TURAN: Attack of Armenian army on the town of \nFizuli, which began in the last twenty-four hours, is stopped, informs \nthe press-service of the Ministry of Defence of Azerbaijan.\n In the result of undertaken measures, 6 tanks and a number of \nthe attackers were destroyed. Advance units of the Armenian army\nretreated several kilometers.\n Chairman of the parliament, Isa Gambar, visited the town of \nFizuli and met with commanders of the units of the national army\nand local citizens, today.--0--\n\n\nSTATEMENT OF MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS OF AZERBAIJAN\n\n BAKU (5 APRIL) TURAN: Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Azerbaijan \nissued a statement in connection with aggression of Armenia in the\nregion of Kelbajar of Azerbaijan.\n It is stated in the statement that regular units of the armed\nforces of Armenia captured the town of Kelbajar on April 3 .\n Attack of Armenian units, which began on March 27 deep in the\nterritory of Azerbaijan still continues. Armenia has occupied at\npresent 7500 sq.km of the territory of Azerbaijan.\n Spreading of Armenian aggression far away from Ukhari (Upper)\nGarabag proves that the Armenian-Azerbaijani conflicts has entered a\nspecially dangerous phase. This is the result of non-recognition of \nArmenia as an aggressor by the international community, is marked\nin the document.\n It is stressed in the statement that the units of the 7th Russian\narmy are participating in the Armenian attack. This casts doubt on\nthe sincerity of Russian mediation efforts in finding a peaceful\nsolution to the conflict.\n It is marked in conclusion that aggressive actions of Armenia \nhave wrecked the negotiation process under aegis of CSCE.\n The document contains the appeal to the world community to stop\nArmenian aggression and to use political and economic sanctions\nagainst the aggressor.--0--\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\n This is the latest from UPI \n\n Foreign Ministry spokesman Ferhat Ataman told journalists Turkey was\n closing its air space to all flights to and from Armenia and would\n prevent humanitarian aid from reaching the republic overland across\n Turkish territory.\n\n \n Historically even the most uncivilized of peoples have exhibited \n signs of compassion by allowing humanitarian aid to reach civilian\n populations. Even the Nazis did this much.\n\n It seems as though from now on Turkey will publicly pronounce \n themselves 'hypocrites' should they choose to continue their\n condemnation of the Serbians.\n\n\n\n--", "5 Apr 93\n MOSCOW (UPI) --\n ...\n ``It's horrible. People are trying to get their wives and children\nout, men are leaving their defense positions, it's total anarchy,'' said\nMekhman Aliyev, a spokesman for the Azerbaijani president.\n\n Aliyev said 210 people -- three-quarters of them civilians, the rest\ngovernment soldiers -- had been killed and 200 wounded in the assault by\nArmenian fighters.\n\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nIt is 'Serdar', 'kocaoglan'.\n\n\nJust love it. Well, it could be your head wasn't screwed on just right.\nIf that does ever happen, look out the window and see if there is a \nnon-fascist x-Soviet Armenian Government in the East.\n\n \"In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.\n It is in our power to tear away the veil of illusion that some of us\n create for ourselves. It certainly is possible to severe the artificial\n life-support system of an imagined 'ethnic purity' that some of us\n falsely trust as the only structure that can support their heart beats \n in this alien land.\"\n (Sahak Melkonian - 1920 - \"Preserving the Armenian purity\") \n\n\nYou sound like ASALA/SDPA/ARF idiots/clowns/crooks. If you prefer to \nimagine that U.S. Ambassador Bristol and Armenian/Jewish scholars were \ntrying to mislead 'Arromdians', be my guest. A typical Armenian clown.\n\nSource: \"U.S. Library of Congress\": 'Bristol Papers' - General \n Correspondence Container #34.\n\n \"While the Dashnaks [x-Soviet Armenian Government] were in power they \n did everything in the world to keep the pot boiling by attacking Kurds, \n Turks and Tartars; by committing outrages against the Moslems; by \n massacring the Moslems; and robbing and destroying their homes. During \n the last two years the Armenians in Russian Caucasus have shown no \n ability to govern themselves and especially no ability to govern or \n handle other races under their power.\"\n\nSource: General Bronsart wrote as follows in an article in the July 24, \n 1921 issue of the newspaper \"Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung:\"\n\n\"Since all the Moslems capable of bearing arms were in the Turkish Army,\n it was easy to organize a terrible massacre by the Armenians against\n defenseless people, because the Armenians were not only attacking the\n sides and rear of the Eastern Army paralyzed at the front by the \n Russians, but were attacking the Moslem folk in the region as well.\"\n\nSource: John Dewey, \"The Turkish Tragedy\", The New Republic, Volume 40, \n November 12, 1928, pp. 268-269.\n\n \"They [Armenians] boasted of having raised an army of one hundred \n and fifty thousand men to fight a civil war, and that they burned at \n least a hundred Turkish villages and exterminated their population.\"\n\n\n\nWhat a clown...Let us ask Armenian scholars - shall we? \n\nSource: Hovannisian, Richard G.: Armenia on the Road to Independence, 1918.\nUniversity of California Press (Berkeley and Los Angeles), 1967, p. 13.\n\n\"The addition of the Kars and Batum oblasts to the Empire increased the\n area of Transcaucasia to over 130,000 square miles. The estimated population\n of the entire region in 1886 was 4,700,000, of whom 940,000 (20 percent) were\n Armenian, 1,200,000 (25 percent) Georgian, and 2,220,000 (45 percent) Moslem.\n Of the latter group, 1,140,000 were Tatars. Paradoxically, barely one-third\n of Transcaucasia's Armenians lived in the Erevan guberniia, where the \n Christians constituted a majority in only three of the seven uezds. Erevan\n uezd, the administrative center of the province, had only 44,000 Armenians\n as compared to 68,000 Moslems. By the time of the Russian Census of 1897,\n however, the Armenians had established a scant majority, 53 percent, in the\n guberniia; it had risen by 1916 to 60 percent, or 670,000 of the 1,120,000\n inhabitants. This impressive change in the province's ethnic character \n notwithstanding, there was, on the eve of the creation of the Armenian \n Republic, a solid block of 370,000 Tartars who continued to dominate the \n southern districts, from the outskirts of Ereven to the border of Persia.\" \n (See also Map 1. Historic Armenia and Map 4. Administrative subdivisions of \n Transcaucasia).\n\nIn 1920, '0' percent Turk. \n\n\"We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as \n ways of escape for the Tartars and then proceeded in the work \n of extermination. Our troops surrounded village after village. \n Little resistance was offered. Our artillery knocked the huts \n into heaps of stone and dust and when the villages became untenable \n and inhabitants fled from them into fields, bullets and bayonets \n completed the work. Some of the Tartars escaped of course. They \n found refuge in the mountains or succeeded in crossing the border \n into Turkey. The rest were killed. And so it is that the whole \n length of the borderland of Russian Armenia from Nakhitchevan to \n Akhalkalaki from the hot plains of Ararat to the cold mountain \n plateau of the North were dotted with mute mournful ruins of \n Tartar villages. They are quiet now, those villages, except for \n howling of wolves and jackals that visit them to paw over the \n scattered bones of the dead.\" \n\n Ohanus Appressian\n \"Men Are Like That\"\n p. 202.\n\n\nJust say so.\n\nSource: \"Men Are Like That\" by Leonard Ramsden Hartill. The Bobbs-Merrill\nCompany, Indianapolis (1926). (305 pages). \n(Memoirs of an Armenian officer who participated in the genocide of 2.5 \n million Muslim people)\n\n\"Foreword:\"\n\n\"For example, we were camped one night in a half-ruined Tartar mosque, \n the most habitable building of a destroyed village, near the border \n of Persia and Russian Armenia. During the course of evening I asked \n Ohanus if he could tell me anything of the history of the village and \n the cause of its destruction. In his matter of fact way he replied, Yes, \n I assisted in its sack and destruction, and witnessed the slaying of \n those whose bones you saw to-day scattered among its ruins.\" \n\np. 202 (first and second paragraphs).\n\n\"We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as \n ways of escape for the Tartars and then proceeded in the work \n of extermination. Our troops surrounded village after village. \n Little resistance was offered. Our artillery knocked the huts \n into heaps of stone and dust and when the villages became untenable \n and inhabitants fled from them into fields, bullets and bayonets \n completed the work. Some of the Tartars escaped of course. They \n found refuge in the mountains or succeeded in crossing the border \n into Turkey. The rest were killed. And so it is that the whole \n length of the borderland of Russian Armenia from Nakhitchevan to \n Akhalkalaki from the hot plains of Ararat to the cold mountain \n plateau of the North were dotted with mute mournful ruins of \n Tartar villages. They are quiet now, those villages, except for \n howling of wolves and jackals that visit them to paw over the \n scattered bones of the dead.\" \n\np. 15 (second paragraph).\n\n\"The Tartars were, for the most part, poor. Some of them lived in villages \n and cultivated small farms; many of them continued in the way of life of \n their nomadic forefathers. They drove their flocks and herds from valley \n to valley, from plain to mountain, and from mountain to plain, following \n the pasturage as it changed with the seasons. They ranged from the salt \n desert shores of the Caspian Sea far into the mighty Caucasus Mountains. \n Even the village Tartars are a primitive people, only semicivilized.\"\n\n\"I can see now that we Armenians frankly despised the Tartars, and, while \n holding a disproportionate share of the wealth of the country, regarded and\n treated them as inferiors. The fact that the Russians looked down upon all\n Armenians in much the same way as Armenians regarded Tartars, far from proving\n a bond between ourselves and our racially different neighbors, intensified\n an attitude and conduct on our part that served only to exacerbate hostility.\"\n\np. 20 (second paragraph).\n\n\"Our men armed themselves, gathered together and advanced on the Tartar\n section of the village. There were no lights in the houses and the doors\n were barred, for the Tartars suspected what as to happen and were in great \n fear. Our men hammered on the doors, but got no response; whereupon they\n smashed in the doors and began a carnage that continued until the last\n Tartar was slain. Throughout the hideous night, I cowered at home in terror,\n unable to shut my ears to the piercing screams of the helpless victims and\n the loud shouts of our men. By morning the work was finished.\"\n\np. 109 (second paragraph).\n\n\"As things were, the members of the Dashnack Party were without administrative\n experience; consequently the government they instituted quickly proved itself\n incompetent to rule by legitimate means.\n\n The members of the government had been revolutionists working in secret and\n outside the law. When they became a legally instituted, recognized governing\n body with the destiny of Armenia in their hands, they proved incompetent to \n do better than resume the terrorist tactics that had characterized their \n fight against the Russian and Turkish Governments in their outlaw days.\n\n The outstanding feature of their rule, now that they were in power, was,\n as in the old days, trial and execution without hearing. A man evoking\n the displeasure of the government or of some official would be tried and\n condemned without arrest or preference of charges against him. The method \n of execution was for a government 'mauserist' to walk up behind the\n condemned man in his home or on the street, place a pistol to the back\n of his head and blow out his brains. This simple way of getting rid of\n those who were undesirable in the view of the government and soon became\n a common way of paying debts.\"\n\np. 203 (first paragraph).\n\n\"A soldier succeeded in driving his bayonet through the Tartar. I saw the\n point of the weapon emerge through his back. ...Another soldier seized a rock \n and pounded the Tartar's head with it... The Armenian who had bayoneted him\n sprang to his feet, wrested the weapon from the Tartar's body, and, raising\n it to his lips, licked it clean of blood, exclaiming in Russian, 'Slodkey!\n Slodkey!' (Sweet.)\"\n\np. 203 (second paragraph).\n\n\"One evening I passed through what had been a Tartar village. Among the \n ruins a fire was burning. I went to the fire and saw seated about\n it a group of soldiers. Among them were two Tartar girls, mere children.\n The girls were crouched on the ground, crying softly with suppressed\n sobs. Lying scattered over the ground were broken household utensils and\n other furnishings of Tartar peasant homes. There were also bodies of the\n dead.\"\n\np. 204 (first paragraph).\n\n\"I was soon asleep. In the night I was awakened by the persistent crying of\n a child. I arose and went to investigate. A full moon enabled me to make\n my way about and revealed to me all the wreck and litter of the tragedy\n that had been enacted. Guided by the child's crying, I entered the yard of\n a house, which I judged from its appearance must have been the home of a\n Turkish family. There in a corner of the yard I found a women dead. Her\n throat had been cut. Lying on her breast was a small child, a girl about a\n year old.\"\n\np. 118.\n\n\"Slowly the train of oxcarts lumbered along through the snow, the cart\n jolting and the loads swaying. Boys ran along the line of oxen, encouraging\n them with shrill Tartar cries, and belaboring the beasts with sticks. In the\n carts, the women, veiled as is the Tartar way, held children in their arms.\n Wrapped in blankets and huddled among the goods that burdened the carts they\n sought protection from the wind and cold. A few old men plodded along on foot.\n\n Across the road through the ravine a barrier had been thrown. The leading\n oxteam reached this barrier and halted. The gunmen and other ruffians \n concealed among the rocks opened fire. Women and children leaped and\n scrambled from the carts, screamed, ran and sought vainly for safety.\n\n This massacre was not complete. The Armenian soldiers in the near-by \n barracks, hearing the firing and the turmoil, hurried to the scene....\n That same day the abandoned Tartar quarter of Alexandropol was looted\n and completely destroyed.\"\n\np. 192.\n\n\"Great swarms of peasants who had come out of their hiding-places on the\n retreat of the Turks followed our army as it advanced.... They entered\n into the city with the army and immediately began plundering the stores\n that had been left by the Turks.\"\n\np. 193.\n\n\"Terrible vengeance was taken upon Tartars, Kurds and Turks. Their villages\n were destroyed and they themselves were slain or driven out of the country.\"\n\np. 195.\n\n\"The fanatical Dashnacks hated the Turks above all others and then in order\n of diminishing intensity: Tartars, Kurds and Russians.\" \n\np. 218. (First and second paragraphs)\n\n\"Russian troops did terrible things in the Turkish villages...We Armenians \n did not spare the Tartars....If persisted in, the slaughtering of prisoners, \n the looting, and the rape and massacre of the helpless become commonplace \n actions expected and accepted as a matter of course.\n\n I have been on the scenes of massacres where the dead lay on the ground,\n in numbers, like the fallen leaves in a forest. They had been as helpless\n and as defenseless as sheep. They had not died as soldiers die in the\n heat of battle, fired with ardor and courage, with weapons in their hands,\n and exchanging blow for blow. They had died as the helpless must, with\n their hearts and brains bursting with horror worse than death itself.\"\n\np. 133 (first paragraph)\n\n\"In this movement we took with us three thousand Turkish soldiers who\n had been captured by the Russians and left on our hands when the Russians\n abandoned the struggle. During our retreat to Karaklis two thousand of\n these poor devils were cruelly put to death. I was sickened by the\n brutality displayed, but could not make any effective protest. Some,\n mercifully, were shot. Many of them were burned to death. The method\n employed was to put a quantity of straw into a hut, and then after\n crowding the hut with Turks, set fire to the straw.\"\n\np. 19 (first paragraph)\n\n\"The Tartar section of the town no longer existed, except as a pile of\n ruins. It had been destroyed and its inhabitants slaughtered. The same \n fate befell the Tartar section of Khankandi.\"\n\np. 22 (second paragraph)\n\n\"Many of our men had served in the Russian Army, and were trained soldiers.\n We Armenians were rich and possessed arms. Tartars had never received\n military training. They were poor, and possessed few arms beyond knives.\n ...Shortly after the killing of the Tartars in our village, the revolution\n in Russia was suppressed.\"\n\np. 97 (third paragraph)\n\n\"Within a few years, following the beginning of the movement, an invisible\n government of Armenians by Armenians had been established in Turkish \n Armenia in armed opposition to the Turkish Government. This secret \n government had its own courts and laws and an army of assassins called\n 'Mauserists' (professional killers) to enforce its decrees.\"\n\np. 98 (first paragraph)\n\n\"The Dashnacks were in continual open rebellion against the Turkish \n Government.\"\n\np. 98 (third paragraph)\n\n\"...the Dashnacks engineered a general revolt of Armenians in Turkish\n Armenia under the mistaken belief that European nations would intervene\n and secure independence for Turkish Armenia.\"\n\np. 99 (second paragraph)\n\n\"The Dashnacks were fanatics.\" \n\np. 99 (third paragraph)\n\n\"The Dashnacks took advantage of this situation and extended their \n revolutionary activities into the Russian province. They instituted \n a campaign of terrorism and employed threats and force in securing\n contributions to the party funds from rich Armenians. A wealthy\n man would be assessed a stipulated sum. Refusal to pay brought upon\n him a sentence of death. \n\n Every member of the party was pledged to carry out orders without \n question. If a man were to be assassinated, lots might be drawn to\n select an executioner or the job might be assigned to one of the\n 'mauserists' of the party.\"\n\np. 130 (first paragraph)\n\n\"...in moments of victory against Turks and Kurds or Tartars, they \n [Armenians] have been remorseless in seeking vengeance.\"\n\np. 130 (third paragraph)\n\n\"The city was a scene of confusion and terror. During the early days of \n the war, when the Russian troops invaded Turkey, large numbers of the \n Turkish population abandoned their homes and fled before the Russian \n advance.\"\n\np. 159 (second paragraph)\n\n\"I made a cannon, a huge gun to lift which required four men. I made balls\n for it. With my cannon the Armenians could knock down any of the Tartar\n houses and so they were able to drive the Tartars out.\"\n\np. 181 (first paragraph)\n\n\"The Tartar villages were in ruins.\"\n\np. 189 (third paragraph)\n\n\"The dead Tartar lay with his head in a pool of mud and blood, his \n beard still setaceous and now crimsoned.\"\n\nNeed I go on?\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\n\nDavidian, who are fascists? Armenians in Azerbaijan are killing Azeri \npeople, invading Azeri soil and they are not fascists, because they \nlack food ha? Strange explanation. There is no excuse for this situation.\n\nHerkesi fasist diye damgala sonra, kendileri fasistligin alasini yapinca,\n\"ac kaldilar da, yiyecekleri yok amcasi, bu seferlik affedin\" de. Yurrruuu, \nyuru de plaka numarani alalim......", "\n\nNote that I said the fall of Rome, not of the Empire. The Roman Empire\nlasted until 1453, with its transfered capital in Constantinople. The\nmain reason for it's fall was not so much the sack of Constantinople by\nthe men of the 4th Crusade (who were not Christians - they had been\nexcommunicated down to the last man after attacking the Christian city\nof Zara in Croatia), but rather the disastorous defeat in the battle of\nMazinkert. After the Turks breached the frontier, it was only a matter\nof time before the Empire fell, the inability of the Empire to hold onto\nthe rim of Anatolia, with the Ottomans and Rum Seljuks in the middle\nshould be quite obvious to any student of history. The sack of\nConstantinople only hastened the inevitable along. For if the Greeks\nhad wanted to save their empire, why would they not cooperate with the\nCrusaders when they came to do battle with the Saracens in the 1st-3rd\nCrusades? Because of their obstinacy over cooperating with people they\nconsidered heretics, even though those \"heretics\" were fighting for the\ncause of the Empire and Christendom in doing battle with the Turkish\nhordes in Anatolia, Edessa, Lebanon, Palastine, and Syria, the some\nhordes who were to later sack Constantinople, and overrun a third of\nEurope (the Balkans, Hungary, the Ukraine, the Caucasus, etc.)", "It was announced on NPR 4/17/93 10:00 am EDT, that Turkish President Ozal died \nof a heart attack in Ankara.\n\n", "\n\nAnd the 'Turkish Karabag' is next. As for 'Cyprus', In 1974, Turkiye \nstepped into Cyprus to preserve the lives of the Turkish population \nthere. This is nothing but a simple historical fact. Unfortunately, \nthe intervention was too late at least for some of the victims. Mass \ngraves containing numerous bodies of women and children already showed \nwhat fate had been planned for a peaceful minority.\n\nThe problems in Cyprus have their origin in decades of \noppression of the Turkish population by the Greek Cypriot \nofficials and their violation of the co-founder status of \nthe Turks set out in the constitution. The coup d'etat \nengineered by Greece in 1974 to execute a final solution \nto the Turkish problem was the savage blow that invoked \nTurkiye's intervention. Turkiye intervened reluctantly and \nonly as a last resort after exhausting all other avenues \nconsulting with Britain and Greece as the other two signatories \nto the treaty to protect the integrity of Cyprus. There simply \nwas not any expansionist motivation in the Turkish action at \nall. This is in dramatic contrast to the Greek motivation which \nwas openly expansionist, stated as 'Enosis,' union with Greece. \nSince the creation of independent Cyprus in 1960, the Turkish \npopulation, although smaller, legally had status as the co-founder\nof the republic with the Greek population.\n\nThe Greek Cypriots, with the support of 'Enosis'-minded\nGreeks in the mainland, have consistently ignored that\nstatus and portrayed the Island as a Greek island with\na minority population of Turks. The Turks of Cyprus are\nnot a minority in a Greek Republic and they found the\nonly way they could show that was to assert their \nautonomy in a separate republic.\n\nTurkiye is not satisfied with the status quo. She would\nrather not be involved with the island. But, given the\ndismal record of brutal Greek oppression of the Turkish\npopulation in Cyprus, she simply cannot leave the fate\nof the island's Turks in the hands of the Greeks until\nthe Turkish side is satisfied with whatever accord\nthe two communities finally reach to guarantee that\nhistory will not repeat itself to rob Turkish Cypriots\nof their rights, liberties and their very lives.\n\n\n Source: 'Cyprus: The Tale Of An Island,' A. H. Rizvi, p. 42\n\n 21-12-1963 Throughout Cyprus\n \"Following the Greek Cypriot premeditated onslaught of 21 December,\n 1963, the Turkish Sectors all over Cyprus were completely besieged\n by Greeks; all telephonic, telegraphic and postal communications\n between these sectors were cut off and the Turkish Cypriot\n Community's contact with each other and with the outside world\n was thus prevented.\"\n\n 21-12-63 -- 31-12-63 Turkish Quarter of Nicosia and suburbs\n \"Greek Cypriot armed elements broke into hundreds of Turkish\n homes and fired at the unarmed occupants with automatic\n weapons killing at random many Turks, including women, children\n and elderly persons (51 Turks were killed and 82 wounded). They\n also carried away as hostages more than 700 Turks, including\n women and children, whom they forced to walk bare-footed and\n in night-dresses across rough fields and river beds.\"\n\n 21-12-63 -- 12-12-64 Throughout Cyprus\n \"The Greek Cypriot Administration deprived Turkish Cypriots \n including Ministers, MPs, and Turkish members of the Public\n services of the republic, of their right to freedom of movement.\"\n\n In his report No. S/6102 of 12 December, 1964 to the Security\n Council, the UN Secretary-General stated in this respect the\n following:\n\n \"Restrictions on the free movement of civilians have been one of\n the major features of the situation in Cyprus since the early\n stages of the disturbances, these restrictions have inflicted\n considerable hardship on the population, especially the Turkish\n Cypriot Community, and have kept tension high.\"\n\n 25-9-1964 -- 31-3-1968 Throughout Cyprus\n \n \"Supply of petrol was completely denied to the Turkish sections.\"\n\n Makarios Addresses UN Security Council On 19 July 1974\n After being Ousted by the Greek Junta Coup\n\n \"In the beginning I wish to express my sincere thanks to all the\n members of the Security Council for the great interest they have\n shown in the critical situation which has been created in Cyprus\n after the coup organized by the military regime in Greece and\n carried out by the Greek army officers who were serving in the\n National Guard and were commanding it.\n\n [..]\n\n 13-3-1975 On the road travelling to the South to the freedom of\n the North\n\n \"A Turkish woman was seriously wounded and her four-month old\n baby was riddled with bullets from an automatic weapon fired by\n a Greek Cypriot mobile patrol which had ambushed the car in which\n the mother and her baby were travelling to the Turkish region.\n The baby died in her mother's arms.\n\n This wanton murder of a four-month-old baby, which shocked foreign\n observers as much as the Turkish Community, was not committed by\n irresponsible persons, but by members of the Greek Cypriot security\n forces. According to the mother's statement the Greek police patrol\n had chased their car and deliberately fired upon it.\"\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nDirty Cosar pig has been doing just that for a long, long time.\n\nSource: \"Ahmet Cosar said to have been part of 1992 Terror Attack at\nMacDonalds in Munich,\" The Fuckersville Reporter, February 7, 1993, p. 1.\n\n\"Le Merde, the influential Anatolia daily, based on unidentified sources,\nclaimed last week that Ahmet Cosar, the founder and leader of one\nfaction of the Big Mac Funny Army for the Liberation of Flies from the\nSpider Webs (BMFALFSW), was among the Argic led terrorists who staged an\nattack on the toilets at MacDonalds fast food restaurant in Munich...\n\nLe Merde added that up to 1992, Cosar operated out of tygra.michigan.com,\nbut escaped from the country when Bullshit bikers entered the city. It was\nabout this time that a statement issued by BMFALFSW claimed that Mr. Cosar\nwas dead of wounds suffered during a mailbombing by bdb@becker.gts.org,\nalthough it is generally believed that the mysterious leader is alive and\nwell and presently is residing alternately in Fuckersville, Bullshitia, and\nZuma, Stupidia. The paper also noted that the communist government of\nSexual Maniac Hasan B. Mutlu and his F.U.C.K.A.L.L party accepted the\nZumabot's underground leader with \"open arms\" and still providing him\nwith assistance in exchange for pornographic material.\n\nLe Merde further adds that BMFALFSW derives only a small portion of its\nexpenditures from wealthy drug lords who support the cause, with the rest \ncoming either from other sources or from proceeds of an involvement in\nchild-porn trafficking.\"\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\tHmmm... what about the genocide conducted by the Ottoman Empire\naganist the Armenians living in Turkey.\n", "\n\nIs this the joke of the month? \n\n1. Your fascist grandparents exterminated 2.5 million Muslim people\nbetween 1914 and 1920.\n\n2. Your Nazi parents fully participated in the extermination of the\nEuropean Jewry during WWII.\n\n3. Your criminal cousins have been slaughtering Muslim women, children\nand elderly people in fascist x-Soviet Armenia and Karabag for the last \nfour years.\n\nThe entire population of x-Soviet Armenia now, as a result of the \nGenocide of 2.5 million Muslim people, are Armenians. \n\nFor nearly one thousand years, the Turkish and Kurdish people \nlived on their homeland - the last one hundred under the \noppressive Soviet and Armenian occupation. The persecutions\nculminated in 1914: The Armenian Government planned and carried \nout a Genocide against its Muslim subjects. 2.5 million Turks \nand Kurds were murdered and the remainder driven out of their \nhomeland. After one thousand years, Turkish and Kurdish lands \nwere empty of Turks and Kurds. \n\nThe survivors found a safe heaven in Turkiye.\n\nToday, x-Soviet Armenian government rejects the right of Turks and \nKurds to return to their Muslim lands occupied by x-Soviet Armenia.\n\nToday, x-Soviet Armenian government covers up the genocide perpetrated \nby its predecessors and is therefore an accessory to this crime against \nhumanity.\n\nx-Soviet Armenian government must pay for their crime of genocide \nagainst the Muslims by admitting to the crime and making reparations \nto the Turks and Kurds.\n\nTurks and Kurds demand the right to return to their lands, to determine \ntheir own future as a nation in their own homeland.\n\nDuring the 78th Anniversary, we come once again reiterate the\nunity of the Muslim People, the timelessness of the Turkish\nand Kurdish Demands and the desire to pursue the struggle\nfor that restitution - a struggle that unites all Turks and Kurds.\n\nToday, we appeal to all Turkish and Kurdish people in the United \nStates and Canada to participate en masse in the Commemorative \nEvents, be they cultural, political or religious.\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nI always like your kind of odds. The Greek governments must be held \nto account for the sub-human conditions of the Turkish minority living \nin the Western Thrace under the brutal Greek domination. The religious \npersecution, cultural oppression and economical ex-communication applied \nto the Turkish population in that area are the dimensions of the human \nrights abuse widespread in Greece.\n\n\"Greece's Housing Policies Worry Western Thrace Turks\"\n\n...Newly built houses belonging to members of the minority\ncommunity in Dedeagac province, had, he said, been destroyed\nby Evros province public works department on Dec. 4.\n\nSungar added that they had received harsh treatment by the\nsecurity forces during the demolition.\n\n\"This is not the first demolition in Dedeagac province; more\nthan 40 houses were destroyed there between 1979-1984 and \nmembers of that minority community were made homeless,\" he\ncontinued. \n\n\"Greece Government Rail-Roads Two Turkish Ethnic Deputies\"\n\nWhile World Human Rights Organizations Scream, Greeks \nPersistently Work on Removing the Parliamentary Immunity\nof Dr. Sadik Ahmet and Mr. Ahmet Faikoglu.\n\nIn his 65-page confession, Salman Demirok, a former chief of PKK\noperations in Hakkari confessed that high-level relations between\nPKK, Greece and Greek Cypriot administration existed.\n\nAccording to Demirok, Greek Cypriot administration not only \ngives shelter to PKK guerillas but also supplies them with \nfood and weapons at the temporary camps set up in its territory. \nDemirok disclosed that PKK has three safe houses in South Cyprus, \nused by terrorists such as Ferhat. In the camps, he added, \nterrorists were trained to use various weapons including RPG's \nand anti-aircraft guns which had been purchased directly from \nthe Greek government. Greek Cypriot government has gone to the \nextent of issuing special identification cards to PKK members so \nthat they can travel from one region to another without being \nconfronted by legal obstacles. Demirok's account was confirmed \nby another PKK defector, Fatih Tan, who gave himself over to \npolice in Hakkari after spending four years with PKK. Tan explained\nthat the terrorists went through a training in camps in South Cyprus, \nsometimes for a period of 12 weeks or more.\n\n \"Torture in Greece: Hidden Reality\"\n\nCase 1: Kostas Andreadis and Dimitris Voglis.\n\n...Andreadis' head was covered with a hood and he was tortured\nby falanga (beating on the soles of the feet), electric shocks,\nand was threatened with being thrown out of the window. An \nofficial medical report clearly documented this torture....\n\nCase 2: Horst Bosniatzki, a West German Citizen.\n\n...At midnight he was taken to the beach, chains were put to his \nfeet and he was threatened to be thrown to the sea. He was dragged\nalong the beach for about a 1.5 Km while being punched on the \nhead and kidneys...Back on the police station, he was beaten\non the finger tips with a thin stick until one of the fingertips\nsplit open....\n\nCase 3: Torture of Dimitris Voglis.\n\nCase 4: Brothers Vangelis (16) and Christos Arabatzis (12),\n Vasilis Papadopoulos (13), and Kostas Kiriazis (13).\n\nCase 5: Torture of Eight Students at Thessaloniki Police\n Headquarters.\n\n SOURCE: The British Broadcasting Corporation, Summary of\n World Broadcasting -July 6, 1987: Part 4-A: The\n Middle East, ME/8612/A/1.\n\n \"Abu Nidal's Advisers\" Reportedly Training\n \"PKK & ASALA Militants\" in Cyprus\n\n Nicosia, Ankara, Tel Aviv. The Israeli secret service,\n Mossad, is reported to have acquired significant\n information in connection with the camps set up in the\n Troodos mountains in Cyprus for the training of\n militants of the PKK and ASALA {Armenian Secret Army for\n the Liberation of Armenia}. According to sources close\n to Mossad, about 700 Kurdish, Greek Cypriot and Armenian\n militants are undergoing training in the Troodos\n mountains in southern Cyprus. The same sources stated\n that Abu Nidal's special advisers are giving military\n training to the PKK and ASALA militants in the camps.\n They added that the militants leave southern Cyprus for\n Libya, Lebanon, Syria, Greece and Iran after completing\n their training. Mossad has established that due to the\n clashes which were taking place among the terrorist\n groups based in Syria, the PKK and ASALA organisations\n moved to the Greek Cypriot part of Cyprus, where they\n would be more comfortable. They also transferred a\n number of their camps in northern Syria to the Troodos\n mountains.\n\n Mossad revealed that the Armenian National Movement,\n which is known as the MNA, has opened liaison offices in\n Nicosia, Athens and Tripoli in order to meet the needs\n of the camps. The offices are used to provide material\n support for the Armenian camps. Meanwhile, the leader\n of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine,\n George Habash, is reported to have ordered his men\n not to participate in the operations carried out\n by the PKK & ASALA, which he described as \"extreme\n racist, extreme nationalist and fascist.\" Reliable\n sources have said that Habash believed that the recent\n operations carried out by the PKK militants show that\n organisation to be a band of irregulars engaged in\n extreme nationalist operations. They added that he\n instructed his militants to sever their links with the\n PKK and avoid clashing with it. It has been established\n that George Habash expelled ASALA militants from his\n camp after ASALA's connections with drug trafficking\n were exposed.\n\nSource: Alan Cowell, 'U.S. & Greece in Dispute on Terror,' The New\n York Times, June 27, 1987, p. 4.\n\n Special to The New York Times\n\nATHENS, June 26 - A dispute developed today between Athens and \nWashington over United States intelligence reports saying that \nAthens, for several months, conducted negotiations with the\nterrorist known as Abu Nidal...\n\nThey said the contacts were verified in what were termed hard\nintelligence reports.\n\nAbu Nidal leads the Palestinian splinter group Al Fatah \nRevolutionary Council, implicated in the 1985 airport \nbombings at Rome and Vienna that contributed to the Reagan \nAdministration's decision to bomb Tripoli, Libya, last year.\n\nIn Washington, State Department officials said that when\nAdministration officials learned about the contacts, the\nState Department drafted a strongly worded demarche. The\nofficials also expressed unhappiness with Greece's dealings\nwith ASALA, the Armenian Liberation Army, which has carried\nout terrorist acts against Turks....\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nVery sensible.\n\n\n\n\nMust you rave so? Fascist x-Soviet Armenian Government engaged in \ndisgusting cowardly massacres of Azeri women and children. I am\nreally sorry if that fact bothers you.\n\n\n\nMore ridicule, I take it? Still not addressing the original points made.\n\n\nThen what seems to be the problem? Did you ever read newspaper at all?\n\n\n\"PAINFUL SEARCH ..\"\n\nTHE GRUESOME extent of February's killings of Azeris by Armenians\nin the town of Hojali is at last emerging in Azerbaijan - about\n600 men, women and children dead in the worst outrage of the\nfour-year war over Nagorny Karabakh.\n\nThe figure is drawn from Azeri investigators, Hojali officials\nand casualty lists published in the Baku press. Diplomats and aid\nworkers say the death toll is in line with their own estimates.\n\nThe 25 February attack on Hojali by Armenian forces was one of\nthe last moves in their four-year campaign to take full control\nof Nagorny Karabakh, the subject of a new round of negotiations\nin Rome on Monday. The bloodshed was something between a fighting\nretreat and a massacre, but investigators say that most of the\ndead were civilians. The awful number of people killed was first\nsuppressed by the fearful former Communist government in Baku.\nLater it was blurred by Armenian denials and grief-stricken\nAzerbaijan's wild and contradictory allegations of up to 2,000\ndead.\n\nThe State Prosecuter, Aydin Rasulov, the cheif investigator of a\n15-man team looking into what Azerbaijan calls the \"Hojali\nDisaster\", said his figure of 600 people dead was a minimum on\npreliminary findings. A similar estimate was given by Elman\nMemmedov, the mayor of Hojali. An even higher one was printed in\nthe Baku newspaper Ordu in May - 479 dead people named and more\nthan 200 bodies reported unidentified. This figure of nearly 700\ndead is quoted as official by Leila Yunusova, the new spokeswoman\nof the Azeri Ministry of Defence.\n\nFranCois Zen Ruffinen, head of delegation of the International\nRed Cross in Baku, said the Muslim imam of the nearby city of\nAgdam had reported a figure of 580 bodies received at his mosque\nfrom Hojali, most of them civilians. \"We did not count the\nbodies. But the figure seems reasonable. It is no fantasy,\" Mr\nZen Ruffinen said. \"We have some idea since we gave the body bags\nand products to wash the dead.\"\n\nMr Rasulov endeavours to give an unemotional estimate of the\nnumber of dead in the massacre. \"Don't get worked up. It will\ntake several months to get a final figure,\" the 43-year-old\nlawyer said at his small office.\n\nMr Rasulov knows about these things. It took him two years to\nreach a firm conclusion that 131 people were killed and 714\nwounded when Soviet troops and tanks crushed a nationalist\nuprising in Baku in January 1990.\n\nThose nationalists, the Popular Front, finally came to power\nthree weeks ago and are applying pressure to find out exactly\nwhat happened when Hojali, an Azeri town which lies about 70\nmiles from the border with Armenia, fell to the Armenians.\n\nOfficially, 184 people have so far been certified as dead, being\nthe number of people that could be medically examined by the\nrepublic's forensic department. \"This is just a small percentage\nof the dead,\" said Rafiq Youssifov, the republic's chief forensic\nscientist. \"They were the only bodies brought to us. Remember the\nchaos and the fact that we are Muslims and have to wash and bury\nour dead within 24 hours.\"\n\nOf these 184 people, 51 were women, and 13 were children under 14\nyears old. Gunshots killed 151 people, shrapnel killed 20 and\naxes or blunt instruments killed 10. Exposure in the highland\nsnows killed the last three. Thirty-three people showed signs of\ndeliberate mutilation, including ears, noses, breasts or penises\ncut off and eyes gouged out, according to Professor Youssifov's\nreport. Those 184 bodies examined were less than a third of those\nbelieved to have been killed, Mr Rasulov said.\n\nFiles from Mr Rasulov's investigative commission are still\ndisorganised - lists of 44 Azeri militiamen are dead here, six\npolicemen there, and in handwriting of a mosque attendant, the\nnames of 111 corpses brought to be washed in just one day. The\nmost heartbreaking account from 850 witnesses interviewed so far\ncomes from Towfiq Manafov, an Azeri investigator who took a\nhelicopter flight over the escape route from Hojali on 27\nFebruary.\n\n\"There were too many bodies of dead and wounded on the ground to\ncount properly: 470-500 in Hojali, 650-700 people by the stream\nand the road and 85-100 visible around Nakhchivanik village,\" Mr\nManafov wrote in a statement countersigned by the helicopter\npilot.\n\n\"People waved up to us for help. We saw three dead children and\none two-year-old alive by one dead woman. The live one was\npulling at her arm for the mother to get up. We tried to land but\nArmenians started a barrage against our helicopter and we had to\nreturn.\"\n\nThere has been no consolidation of the lists and figures in\ncirculation because of the political upheavals of the last few\nmonths and the fact that nobody knows exactly who was in Hojali\nat the time - many inhabitants were displaced from other villages\ntaken over by Armenian forces.\n\nTHE INDEPENDENT, London, 12/6/'92\n\n\nHEROES WHO FOUGHT ON AMID THE BODIES\n\nAREF SADIKOV sat quietly in the shade of a cafe-bar on the\nCaspian Sea esplanade of Baku and showed a line of stitches in\nhis trousers, torn by an Armenian bullet as he fled the town of\nHojali just over three months ago, writes Hugh Pope.\n\n\"I'm still wearing the same clothes, I don't have any others,\"\nthe 51-year-old carpenter said, beginning his account of the\nHojali disaster. \"I was wounded in five places, but I am lucky to\nbe alive.\"\n\nMr Sadikov and his wife were short of food, without electricity\nfor more than a month, and cut off from helicopter flights for 12\ndays. They sensed the Armenian noose was tightening around the\n2,000 to 3,000 people left in the straggling Azeri town on the\nedge of Karabakh.\n\n\"At about 11pm a bombardment started such as we had never heard\nbefore, eight or nine kinds of weapons, artillery, heavy\nmachine-guns, the lot,\" Mr Sadikov said.\n\nSoon neighbours were pouring down the street from the direction\nof the attack. Some huddled in shelters but others started\nfleeing the town, down a hill, through a stream and through the\nsnow into a forest on the other side.\n\nTo escape, the townspeople had to reach the Azeri town of Agdam\nabout 15 miles away. They thought they were going to make it,\nuntil at about dawn they reached a bottleneck between the two\nArmenian villages of Nakhchivanik and Saderak.\n\n\"None of my group was hurt up to then ... Then we were spotted by\na car on the road, and the Armenian outposts started opening\nfire,\" Mr Sadikov said.\n\nAzeri militiamen fighting their way out of Hojali rushed forward\nto force open a corridor for the civilians, but their efforts\nwere mostly in vain. Mr Sadikov said only 10 people from his\ngroup of 80 made it through, including his wife and militiaman\nson. Seven of his immediate relations died, including his\n67-year-old elder brother.\n\n\"I only had time to reach down and cover his face with his hat,\"\nhe said, pulling his own big flat Turkish cap over his eyes. \"We\nhave never got any of the bodies back.\"\n\nThe first groups were lucky to have the benefit of covering fire.\nOne hero of the evacuation, Alif Hajief, was shot dead as he\nstruggled to change a magazine while covering the third group's\ncrossing, Mr Sadikov said.\n\nAnother hero, Elman Memmedov, the mayor of Hojali, said he and\nseveral others spent the whole day of 26 February in the bushy\nhillside, surrounded by dead bodies as they tried to keep three\nArmenian armoured personnel carriers at bay.\n\nAs the survivors staggered the last mile into Agdam, there was\nlittle comfort in a town from which most of the population was\nsoon to flee.\n\n\"The night after we reached the town there was a big Armenian\nrocket attack. Some people just kept going,\" Mr Sadikov said. \"I\nhad to get to the hospital for treatment. I was in a bad way.\nThey even found a bullet in my sock.\"\n\nVictims of war: An Azeri woman mourns her son, killed in the\nHojali massacre in February (left). Nurses struggle in primitive\nconditions (centre) to save a wounded man in a makeshift\noperating theatre set up in a train carriage. Grief-stricken\nrelatives in the town of Agdam (right) weep over the coffin of\nanother of the massacre victims. Calculating the final death toll\nhas been complicated because Muslims bury their dead within 24\nhours.\n\nPhotographs: Liu Heung / AP\n Frederique Lengaigne / Reuter\n\nTHE INDEPENDENT, London, 12/6/'92\n\nSerdar Argic", "Accounts of Anti-Armenian Human Right Violations in Azerbaijan #008 Part B\n Prelude to Current Events in Nagorno-Karabakh\n\n\t\t\t\t(Part B of #008)\n\n +------------------------------------------------------------------+\n | |\n | \"Oh, yes, I just remembered. While they were raping me they |\n | repeated quite frequently, \"Let the Armenian women have babies |\n | for us, Muslim babies, let them bear Azerbaijanis for the |\n | struggle against the Armenians.\" Then they said, \"Those |\n | Muslims can carry on our holy cause. Heroes!\" They repeated |\n | it very often.\" |\n | |\n +------------------------------------------------------------------+\n\n...continued from PART A:\n\nThe six of them left. They left and I had an attack. I realized that the dan-\nger was past, and stopped controlling myself. I relaxed for a moment and the \nphysical pain immediately made itself felt. My heart and kidneys hurt. I had \nan awful kidney attack. I rolled back and forth on top of those Christmas\nornaments, howling and howling. I didn't know where I was or how long this \nwent on. When we figured out the time, later it turned out that I howled and \nwas in pain for around an hour. Then all my strength was gone and I burst into\ntears, I started feeling sorry for myself, and so on and so forth . . .\n\nThen someone came into the room. I think I hear someone calling my name. I \nwant to respond and restrain myself, I think that I'm hallucinating. I am \nsilent, and then it continues: it seems that first a man's voice is calling\nme, then a woman's. Later I found out that Mamma had sent our neighbor, the\none whose apartment she was hiding in, Uncle Sabir Kasumov, to our place, \ntelling him, \"I know that they've killed Lyuda. Go there and at least bring \nher corpse to me so they don't violate her corpse.\" He went and returned empty\nhanded, but Mamma thought he just didn't want to carry the corpse into his \napartment. She sent him another time, and then sent his wife, and they were \nwalking through the rooms looking for me, but I didn't answer their calls. \nThere was no light, they had smashed the chandeliers and lamps.\n\nThey started the pogrom in our apartment around five o'clock, and at 9:30 I \nwent down to the Kasumovs'. I went down the stairs myself. I walked out of the\napartment: how long can you wait for your own death, how long can you be \ncowardly, afraid? Come what will. I walked out and started knocking on the \ndoors one after the next. No one, not on the fifth floor, not on the fourth, \nopened the door. On the third floor, on the landing of the stairway, Uncle \nSabir's son started to shout, \"Aunt Roza, don't cry, Lyuda's alive!\" He \nknocked on his own door and out came Aunt Tanya, Igor, and after them, Mamma. \nAunt Tanya, Uncle Sabir's wife, is an Urdmurt. All of us were in their \napartment. I didn't see Karina, but she was in their home, too, Lying\ndelirious, she had a fever. Marina was there too, and my father and mother.\nAll of my family had gathered there.\n \nAt the door I lost consciousness. Igor and Aunt Tanya carried me into the\napartment.\n\nLater I found out what they had done to our Karina. Mamma said, \"Lyuda, \nKarina's in really serious condition, she's probably dying. If she recognizes \nyou, don't cry, don't tell her that her face looks so awful.\" It was as though\nher whole face was paralyzed, you know, everything was pushed over to one \nside, her eye was all swollen, and everything flowed together, her lips, her \ncheeks . . . It was as though they had dragged her right side around the whole\nmicrodistrict, that's how disfigured her face was. I said, \"Fine.\" Mamma was \nafraid to go into the room, because she went in and hugged Karina and started \nto cry. I went in. As soon as I saw her my legs gave way. I fell down near the\nbed, hugged her legs and started kissing them and crying. She opened the eye \nthat was intact, looked at me, and said, \"Who is it?\" But I could barely talk, \nmy whole face was so badly beaten. I didn't say, but rather muttered something\ntender, something incomprehensible, but tender, \"My Karochka, my Karina, my \nlittle golden one . . . \" She understood me.\n\nThen Igor brought me some water, I drank it down and moistened Karina's lips. \nShe started to groan. She was saying something to me, but I couldn't \nunderstand it. Then I made out, \"It hurts, I hurt all over.\" Her hair was \nglued down with blood. I stroked her forehead, her head, she had grit on her \nforehead, and on her lips . . . She was groaning again, and I don't know how \nto help her. She calls me over with her hand, come closer. I go to her. She's\nsaying something to me, but I can't understand her. Igor brings her a pencil \nand paper and says, \"Write it down.\" She shakes her head as if to say, no, I \ncan't write. I can't understand what she's saying. She wanted to tell me \nsomething, but she couldn't. I say, \"Karina, just lie there a little while,\nthen maybe you'll feel better and you can tell me then.\" And then she says,\n\"Maybe it'll be too late.\" And I completely . . . just broke down, I couldn't\ncontrol myself.\n\nThen I moistened my hand in the water and wiped her forehead and eye. I dipped\na handkerchief into the water and squeezed a little water onto her lips. She \nsays, \"Lyuda, we're not saved yet, we have to go somewhere else. Out of this \ndamned house. They want to kill us, I know. They'll find us here, too. We need\nto call Urshan.\" She repeated this to me for almost a whole hour, Until I \nunderstood her every word. I ask, \"What's his number?\" Urshan Feyruzovich, \nthat's the head of the administration where she works. \"We have to call him.\" \nBut I didn't know his home number. I say, \"Karina, what's his number?\" She \nsays, \"I can't remember.\" I say, \"Who knows his number? Who can I call?\" She \nsays, \"I don't know anything, leave me alone.\"\n\nI went out of the room. Igor stayed to watch over her and sat there, he was \ncrying, too. I say, \"Mamma, Karina says that we have to call Urshan. How can \nwe call him? Who knows his telephone number?\" I tell Marina, \"Think, think, \nwho can we call to find out?\" She started calling; several people didn't \nanswer. She called a girlfriend, her girlfriend called another girlfriend and \nfound out the number and called us back. The boss's wife answered and said he \nwas at the dacha. My voice keeps cracking, I can't talk normally. She says, \n\"Lyuda, don't panic, get a hold of yourself, go out to those hooligans and \ntell them that they just can't do that.\" She still didn't know what was really\ngoing on. I said, \"It's easy for you to say that, you don't understand what's \nhappening. They are killing people here. I don't think there is a single \nArmenian left in the building, they've cut them all up. I'm even surprised \nthat we managed to save ourselves. \"She says, \"Well, OK, if it's that serious \n. . . \" And all the same she's thinking that my emotions are all churned up \nand that I'm fearing for my life, that in fact it's not all that bad. \"OK, \nfine, fine,\" she says, \"if you're afraid, OK, as soon as Urshan comes back \nI'll send him over.\"\n\nWe called again because they had just started robbing the apartment directly \nunder Aunt Tanya's, on the second floor, Asya Dallakian's apartment. She \nwasn't home, she was staying with her daughter in Karabagh. They destroyed \neverything there . . . We realized that they still might come back. We kept on\ntrying to get through to Aunt Tanya--Urshan's wife is named Tanya too and \nfinally we get through. She says, \"Yes, he's come home, he's leaving for your \nplace now.\" He came. Of course he didn't know what was happening, either, \nbecause he brought two of his daughters with him. He came over in his jeep \nwith his two daughters, like he was going on an outing. He came and saw what \nshape we were in and what was going on in town and got frightened. He has \ngrown up daughters, they're almost my age.\n\nThe three of us carried out Karina, tossed a coat on her and a warm scarf, and\nwent down to his car. He took Karina and me to the Maternity Home. . . No, \nfirst they took us to the po]ice precinct. They had stretchers ready. As\nsoon as we got out of the car they put Karina and me on stretchers and said\nthat we were in serious condition and that we mustn't move, we might have\nfractures. From the stretcher I saw about 30 soldiers sitting and lying on the\nfirst floor, bandaged, on the concrete floor, groaning . . . This was around\neleven o'clock at night. We had left the house somewhere around 1:30. When I \nsaw those soldiers I realized that a war was going on: soldiers, enemies\n. . . everything just like a war.\n\nThey carried me into some office on the stretcher. The emergency medical\npeople from Baku were there. The medical attendant there was an older \nArmenian. Urshan told him what they had done to Karina because she's so proud \nshe would never have told. And this aging Armenian . . . his name was Uncle \nArkady, I think, because someone said \"Arkady, get an injection ready,\" he \nstarted to fill a syringe, and turned around so as to give Karina a shot. But \nwhen he looked at her face he became ill. And he was an old man, in his \nsixties, his hair was all grey, and his moustache, too. He hugged Karina and \nstarted to cry: \"What have they done to you?!\" He was speaking Armenian. \"What\nhave they done to you?!\" Karina didn't say anything. Mamma came in then, and \nshe started to cry, too. The man tried to calm her. \"I'll give you a shot.\" \nMamma tells him, \"I don't need any shot. Where is the government? Just what \nare they doing? Look what they've done to my children! They're killing people,\nand you're just sitting here!\" Some teacups were standing on the table in \nthere. \"You're sitting here drinking tea! Look what they've done to my \ndaughters! Look what they've turned them into!\" They gave her something to \ndrink, some heart medicine, I think. They gave Karina an injection and the\ndoctor said that she had to be taken to the Maternity Home immediately. Papa \nand Urshan, I think, even though Papa was in bad shape, helped carry Karina \nout. When they put her on the stretcher, none of the medics got near her. I \ndon't know, maybe there weren't any orderlies. Then they came to me: \"What's \nthe matter with you?\" Their tone was so official that I wrapped myself tighter\nin the half-length coat. I had a blanket on, too, an orange one, Aunt Tanya's.\nI said, \"I'm fine.\" Uncle Arkady came over and was soothing me, and then told \nthe doctor, \"You leave, let a woman examine her.\" A woman came, an \nAzerbaijani, I believe, and said, \"What's wrong with you?\" I was wearing my \nsister Lyuda's nightshirt, the sister who at this time was in Yerevan. When \nshe was nursing her infant she had cut out a big hole in it so that it would \nbe easier to breast feed the baby. I tore the night shirt some more and showed\nher. I took it off my shoulders and turned my back to her. There was a huge \nwound, about the size of a hand, on my back, from the Indian vase. She said \nsomething to them and they gave me two shots. She said that it should be \ndressed with something, but that they'd do that in the hospital.\n\nThey put me on a stretcher, too. They started looking for people to carry me. \nI raised up my head a little and wanted to sit up, and this woman, I don't \nknow if she was a doctor or a nurse, said, \"Lie still, you mustn't move.\" When\nI was lying back down I saw two policemen leading a man. His profile seemed \nvery familiar to me. I shouted, \"Stop!\" One of the policemen turned and says, \n\"What do you want?\" I say, \"Bring him to me, I want to look at him.\" They \nbrought him over and I said, \"That person was just in our apartment and he \njust raped me and my sister. I recognize him, note it down.\" They said, \n\"Fine,\" but didn't write it down and led him on. I don't know where they were \ntaking him.\n\nThen they put my stretcher near where the injured and beaten soldiers were \nsitting. They went to look for the ambulance driver so he would bring the car \nup closer. One of the soldiers started talking to me, \"Sister . . . \" I don't \nremember the conversation exactly, but he asked me were we lived and what they\ndid to us. I asked him, \"Where are you from?\" He said that he was from Ufa. \nApparently they were the first that were brought in. The Ufa police. Later I \nlearned that they suffered most of all. He says, \"OK, you're Armenians, they \ndidn't get along with you, but I'm a Russian,\" he says, \"what are they trying \nto kill me for?\" Oh, I remembered something else. When I went out onto the \nbalcony with Kuliyev for a hammer and nails I looked out the window and saw \ntwo Azerbaijanis beating a soldier near the kindergarten. He was pressed \nagainst the fence and he covered his head with his arms, they were beating him\nwith his own club. The way he cried \"Mamma\" made my skin crawl. I don't know \nwhat they did to him, if he's still alive or not. And something else. Before \nhe attack on our house we saw sheets, clothes, and some dishes flying from the\nthird or fourth floor of the neighboring building, but I didn't think it was \nAzerbaijanis attacking Armenians. I thought that something was on fire or they\nwere throwing something they didn't need out, or someone was fighting with \nsomeone. It was only later, when they were burning a passenger car in the \nyard, when the neighbors said that they were doing that to the Armenians, that\nI realized that this was serious, that it was anti-Armenian.\n\nThey took Karina and me to the Sumgait Maternity Home. Mamma went to them too \nand said, \"I've been beaten too, help me.\" But they just ignored her. My \nfather went to them and said in a guilty voice, as though it was his fault \nthat he'd been beaten, and says, \"My ribs hurt so much, those creeps have \nprobably broken my ribs. Please look at them.\" The doctor says, \"That's not my\njob.\" Urshan said, \"Fine, I'll take you to my place and if we need a doctor, \nI'll find you one. I'll bring one and have him look at you. And he drove them \nto his apartment.\n\nMarina and I stayed there. They examined us. I was more struck by what the \ndoctor said than by what those Azerbaijanis in our apartment did to us. I \nwasn't surprised when they beat us they wanted to beat us, but I was very\nsurprised that in a Soviet medical facility a woman who had taken the\nHippocratic Oath could talk to victims like that. By happy--or unhappy--\ncoincidence we were seen by the doctor that had delivered our Karina. And she,\nhaving examined Karina, said, \"No problem, you got off pretty good. Not like \nthey did in Kafan, when you Armenians were killing and raping our women.\n\"Karina was in such terrible condition that she couldn't say anything--she\nwould certainly have had something to say! Then they examined me. The same \nstory. They put us in a separate ward. No shots, no medicinal powders, no \ndrugs. Absolutely none! They didn't even give us tea. All the women there soon\nfound out that in ward such and such were Armenians who had been raped. And\nthey started coming and peering through the keyhole, the way people look at \nzoo animals. Karina didn't see this, she was lying there, and I kept her from \nseeing it.\n\nThey put Ira B. in our ward. She had also been raped. True, she didn't have \nany serious bodily injuries, but when she told me what had happened at their \nplace, I felt worse for them than I did for us. Because when they raped Ira \nher daughter was in the room, she was under the bed on which it happened. And\nIra was holding her daughter's hand, the one who was hiding under the bed.\nWhen they were beating Ira or taking her earrings off, gold, when she \ninvoluntarily let go of her daughter's hand, her daughter took her hand again.\nHer daughter is in the fourth grade, she's 11 years old. I felt really awful \nwhen I heard that. Ira asked them not to harm her daughter, she said, \"Do what\nyou want with me, just leave my daughter alone.\" Well, they did what they \nwanted. They threatened to kill her daughter if she got in their way. Now I \nwould be surprised if the criminals had behaved any other way that night. It \nwas simply Bartholomew's Night, I say, they did what they would love to do \nevery day: steal, kill, rape . . .\n\nMany are surprised that those animals didn't harm the children. The beasts \nexplained it like this: this would be repeated in 15 to 20 years, and those \nchildren would be grown, and then, as they put it, \"we'll come take the \npleasure out of their lives, those children.\" This was about the girls that\nwould be young women in 15 years. They were thinking about their tomorrow \nbecause they were sure that there would be no trial and no investigation, just\nas there was no trial or investigation in 1915, and that those girls could be \nof some use in 15 years. This I heard from the investigators; one of the \nvictims testified to it. That's how they described their own natures, that\nthey would still be bloodthirsty in 15 to 20 years, and in 100 years--they\nthemselves said that.\n\nAnd this, too. Everyone is surprised that they didn't harm our Marina. Many \npeople say that they either were drunk or had smoked too much. I don't know \nwhy their eyes were red. Maybe because they hadn't slept the night before, \nmaybe for some other reason, I don't know. But they hadn't been smoking and \nthey weren't drunk, I'm positive, because someone who has smoked will stop at \nnothing he has the urge to do. And they spoke in a cultured fashion with \nMarina: \"Little sister, don't be afraid, we won't harm you, don't look over \nthere [where I was], you might be frightened. You're a Muslim, a Muslim woman \nshouldn't see such things.\" So they were really quite sober . . .\n\nSo we came out of that story alive. Each every day we have lived since it all \nhappened bears the mark of that day. It wasn't even a day, of those several \nhours. Father still can't look us in the eyes. He still feels guilty for what\nhappened to Karina, Mother, and me. Because of his nerves he's started talk-\ning to himself, I've heard him argue with himself several times when he\nthought no one is listening: \"Listen,\" he'll say, \"what could I do? What could\nI do alone, how could I protect them?\" I don't know where to find the words,\nit's not that I'm happy, but I am glad that he didn't see it all happen. \nThat's the only thing they spared us . . . or maybe it happened by chance. Of \ncourse he knows it all, but there's no way you could imagine every last detail\nof what happened. And there were so many conversations: Karina and I spoke\ntogether in private, and we talked with Mamma, too. But Father was never\npresent at those conversations. We spare him that, if you can say that. And\nwhen the investigator comes to the house, we don't speak with Father present.\n\nOn February 29, the next clay, Karina and I were discharged from the hospital.\nFirst they released me, but since martial law had been declared in the city, \nthe soldiers took me to the police precinct in an armored personnel carrier. \nThere were many people there, Armenian victims. I met the Tovmasian family \nthere. From them I learned that Rafik and their Uncle Grant had died. They \nwere sure that both had died. They were talking to me and Raya, Rafik's wife \nand Grant's daughter, and her mother, were both crying.\n\nThen they took us all out of the office on the first floor into the yard.\nThere's a little one-room house outside there, a recreation and reading area.\nThey took us in there. The women were afraid to go because they thought\nthat they were shooing us out of the police precinct because it had become\nso dangerous that even the people working at the precinct wanted to hide.\nThe women were shouting. They explained to them: \"We want to hide you\nbetter because it's possible there will be an attack on the police precinct.\"\n\nWe went into the little house. There were no chairs or tables in there. We\nhad children with us and they were hungry; we even had infants who needed to \nhave their diapers changed. No one had anything with them. It was just awful. \nThey kept us there for 24 hours. From the window of the one room house you \ncould see that there were Azerbaijanis standing on the fences around the \npolice precinct, as though they were spying on us. The police precinct is \nsurrounded by a wall, like a fence, and it's electrified, but if they were \nstanding on the wall, it means the electricity was shut off. This brought \ngreat psychological pressure to bear on us, particularly on those who hadn't \njust walked out of their apartments, but who hadn't slept for 24 hours, or 48,\nor those who had suffered physically and spiritually, the ones who had lost \nfamily members. For us it was another ordeal. We were especially frightened \nwhen all the precinct employees suddenly disappeared. We couldn't see a single\nperson, not in the courtyard and not in the windows. We thought that they must\nhave already been hiding under the building, that they must have some secret \nroom down there. People were panicking: they started throwing themselves at\none another . . . That's the way it is on a sinking ship. We heard those \npeople, mainly young people, whistling and whopping on the walls. We felt that\nthe end was approaching. I was completely terrified: I had left Karina in the \nhospital and didn't know where my parents were. I was sort of calm about my \nparents, I was thinking only about Karina, if, Heaven forbid, they should \nattack the hospital, they would immediately tell them that there was an \nArmenian in there, and something terrible would happen to Karina again, and \nshe wouldn't be able to take it.\n\nThen soldiers with dogs appeared. When they saw the dogs some of the people \nclimbed down off the fence. Then they brought in about another 30 soldiers.\nThey all had machine guns in readiness, their fingers on the triggers. We \ncalmed down a little. They brought us chairs and brought the children some \nlittle cots and showed us where we could wash our hands, and took the children\nto the toilet. But we all sat there hungry, but to be honest, it would never \nhave occurred to any of us that we hadn't eaten for two days and that people \ndo eat.\n\nThen, closer to nightfall, they brought a group of detained criminals. They \nwere being watched by soldiers with guard dogs. One of the men came back from \nthe courtyard and told us about it. Raya Tovmasian . . . it was like a \ndifferent woman had been substituted. Earlier she had been crying, wailing, \nand calling out: \"Oh, Rafik!,\" but when she heard about this such a rage came \nover her! She jumped up, she had a coat on, and she started to roll up her \nsleeves like she was getting ready to beat someone. And suddenly there were \nsoldiers, and dogs, and lots of people. She ran over to them. The bandits were\nstanding there with their hands above their heads facing the wall. She went up\nto one of them and grabbed him by the collar and started to shake and thrash \nhim! Then, on to a second, and a third. Everyone was rooted to the spot. Not \none of the soldiers moved, no one went up to help or made her stop her from \ndoing it. And the bandits fell down and covered their heads with their hands, \nmuttering something. She came back and sat down, and something akin to a smile\nappeared on her face. She became so quiet: no tears, no cries. Then that round\nwas over and she went back to beat them again. She was walking and cursing \nterribly: take that, and that, they killed my husband, the bastards, the \ncreeps, and so on. Then she came back again and sat down. She probably did \nthis the whole night through, well, it wasn't really night, no one slept. She \nwent five or six times and beat them and returned. And she told the women, \n\"What are you sitting there for? They killed your husbands and children, they \nraped, and you're just sitting there. You're sitting and talking as though \nnothing had happened. Aren't you Armenians?\" She appealed to everyone, but no \none got up. I was just numb, I didn't have the strength to beat anyone, I \ncould barely hold myself up, all the more so since I had been standing for so \nmany hours--I was released at eleven o'clock in the morning and it was already\nafter ten at night because there weren't enough chairs, really it was the \nelderly and women with children who sat. I was on my feet the whole time. \nThere was nothing to breathe, the door was closed, and the men were smoking. \nThe situation was deplorable.\n\nAt eleven o'clock at night policemen came for us, local policemen, \nAzerbaijanis. They said, \"Get up. They've brought mattresses, you can wash up\nand put the children to bed.\" Now the women didn't want to leave this place, \neither. The place had become like home, it was safe, there were soldiers with \ndogs. If anyone went outside, the soldiers would say, \"Oh, it's our little \nfamily,\" and things like that. The soldiers felt this love, and probably, for \nthe first time in their lives perceived themselves as defenders. Everyone\nspoke from the heart, cried, and hugged them and they, with their loaded\nmachine guns in their hands, said, \"Grandmother, you mustn't approach me,\nI'm on guard.\" Our people would say, \"Oh, that's all right.\" They hugged\nthem, one woman even kissed one of the machine guns. This was all terribly\nmoving for me. And the small children kept wanting to pet the dogs.\n\nThey took us up to the second floor and said, \"You can undress and sleep in \nhere. Don't be afraid, the precinct is on guard, and it's quiet in the city.\"\nThis was the 29th, when the killing was going on in block 41A and in other\nplaces. Then we were told that all the Armenians were being gathered at the\nSK club and at the City Party Committee. They took us there. On the way I \nasked them to stop at the Maternity Home: I wanted to take Karina with me.\nI didn't know what was happening there. They told me, \"Don't worry, the\nMaternity Home is full of soldiers, more than mothers-to-be. So you can rest\nassured. I say, \"Well, I won't rest assured regardless, because the staff in\nthere is capable of anything.\"\n\nWhen I arrived at the City Party Committee it turned out that Karina had\nalready been brought there. They had seen fit to release her from the hospi-\ntal, deciding that she felt fine and was no longer in need of any care. Once\nwe were in the City Party Committee we gave free reign to our tears. We met \nacquaintances, but everyone was somehow divided into two groups, those who \nhadn't been injured, who were clothed, who had brought a pot of food with \nthem, and so on, and those, like me, like Raya, who were wearing whatever had \ncome their way. There were even people who were all made up, dolled up like \nthey had come from a wedding. There were people without shoes, naked people, \nhungry people, those who were crying, and those who had lost someone. And of \ncourse the stories and the talk were flying: \"Oh, I heard that they killed \nhim!\" \"What do you mean they killed him!\" \"He stayed at work!\" \"Do you know \nwhat's happening at this and such a plant? Talk like that.\n\nAnd then I met Aleksandr Mikhailovich Gukasian, the teacher. I know him very \nwell and respect him highly. I've known him for a long time. They had a small \nroom, well really it was more like a study-room. We spent a whole night \ntalking in that study once. On March 1 we heard that Bagirov [First Secretary \nof the Communist Party of Azerbaijan SSR] had arrived. Everyone ran to see \nBagirov, what news he had brought with him and how this was all being viewed \nfrom outside. He arrived and everyone went up to him to talk to him and ask \nhim things. Everyone was in a tremendous rage. But he was protected by \nsoldiers, and he went up to the second floor and didn't deign to speak with \nthe people. Apparently he had more important things to do.\n\nSeveral hours passed. Gukasian called me and says, \"Lyudochka, find another \ntwo or three. We're going to make up lists, they asked for them upstairs, \nlists of the dead, those whose whereabouts are unknown, and lists of people \nwho had pogroms of their apartments and of those whose cars were burned.\" I \nhad about 50 people in my list when they called me and said, \"Lyuda, your \nMamma has arrived, she's looking for you, she doesn't believe that you are \nalive and well and that you're here.\" I gave the lists to someone and asked \nthem to continue what I was doing and went off.\n\nThe list was imprecise, of course. It included Grant Adamian, Raya Tovmasian's\nfather, who was alive, but at the time they thought him dead. There was Engels\nGrigorian's father and aunt, Cherkez and Maria. The list also included the \nname of my girlfriend and neighbor, Zhanna Agabekian. One of the guys said \nthat he had been told that they chopped her head off in the courtyard in front\nof the Kosmos movie theater. We put her on the list too, and cried, but later \nit turned out that that was just a rumor, that in fact an hour earlier she had\nsomehow left Sumgait for the marina and from there had set sail for \nKrasnovodsk, where, thank God, she was alive and well. I should also say that \nin addition to those who died that list contained people who were rumored \nmissing or who were so badly wounded that they were given up for dead. 3\n\nAll the lists were taken to Bagirov. I don't remember how many dead were \ncontained in the list, but it's a fact that when Gukasian came in a couple \nof minutes later he was cursing and was terribly irate. I asked, \"What's \ngoing on?\" He said, \"Lyuda, can you imagine what animals, what scoundrels\nthey are! They say that they lost the list of the dead. Piotr Demichev\n[Member of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the Communist Party\nof the USSR] has just arrived, and we were supposed to submit the list to\nhim, so that he'd see the scope of the slaughter, of the tragedy, whether it\nwas one or fifty.\" They told him that the list had disappeared and they\nshould ask everyone who hadn't left for the Khimik boarding house all over\nagain. There were 26 people on our second list. I think that the number 26\nwas the one that got into the press and onto television and the radio, because\nthat's the list that Demichev got. I remember exactly that there were 26 \npeople on the list, I had even told Aleksandr Mikhailovich that that was only \na half of those that were on the first list. He said, \"Lyuda, please, try to\nremember at least one more.\" But I couldn't remember anyone else. But there\nwere more than 30 dead. Of that I am certain. The government and the Procuracy\ndon't count the people who died of fright, like sick people and old people \nwhose lives are threatened by any shock. They weren't registered as victims of\nthe Sumgait tragedy. And then there may be people we didn't know. So many \npeople left Sumgait between March 1 and 8! Most of them left for smaller towns\nin Russia, and especially to the Northern Caucasus, to Stavropol, and the \nKrasnodarsk Territory. We don't have any information on them. I know that \nthere are people who set out for parts around Moscow. In the periodical \nKrestyanka [Woman Farmer] there was a call for people who know how to milk \ncows, and for mechanics, and drivers, and I know a whole group of people went \nto help out. Also clearly not on our list are those people who died entering\nthe city, who were burned in their cars. No one knows about them, except the \nAzerbaijanis, who are hardly likely to say anything about it. And there's\nmore. A great many of the people who were raped were not included in the list \ndrawn up at the Procuracy. I know of three instances for sure, and I of course\ndon't know them all. I'm thinking of three women whose parents chose not to \npublicize what had happened, that is, they didn't take the matter to court, \nthey simply left. But in so doing they didn't cease being victims. One of them\nis the first cousin of my classmate Kocharian. She lived in Microdistrict No. \n8, on the fifth floor. I can't tell you the building number and I don't know \nher name. Then comes the neighbor of one of my relatives, she lived in \nMicrodistrict 1 near the gift shop. I don't know her name, she lives on the \nsame landing as the Sumgait procurator. They beat her father, he was holding \nthe door while his daughter hid, but he couldn't hold the door forever, and \nwhen she climbed over the balcony to the neighbors' they seized her by her \nbraid. Like the Azerbaijanis were saying, it was a very cultured mob, because \nthey didn't kill anyone, they only raped them and left. And the third one \n. . . I don't remember who the third one was anymore.\n\nThey transferred us on March 1. Karina still wasn't herself. Yes, we lived for\ndays in the SK, in the cultural facility, and at the Khimik. They lived there \nand I lived at the City Party Committee because I couldn't stay with Karina; \nit was too difficult for me, but I was at peace: she had survived. I could \nalready walk, but really it was honest words that held me up. Thanks to the \nsocial work I did there, I managed to persevere. Aleksandr Mikhailovich said, \n\"If it weren't for the work I would go insane.\" He and I put ourselves in gear\nand took everything upon ourselves: someone had an infant and needed diapers \nand free food, and we went to get them. The first days we bought everything, \nalthough we should have received it for free. They were supposed to have been \ndispensed free of charge, and they sold it to us. Then, when we found out it \nwas free, we went to Krayev. At the time, fortunately, you could still drop by\nto see him like a neighbor, all the more so since everything was still clearly\nvisible on our faces. Krayev sent a captain down and he resolved the issue.\n\nOn March 2 they sent two investigators to see us: Andrei Shirokov and Vladimir\nFedorovich Bibishev. The way it worked out, in our family they had considered \nonly Karina and me victims, maybe because she and I wound up in the hospital.\nMother and Father are considered witnesses, but not victims.\n\nShirokov was involved with Karina's case, and Bibishev, with mine. After I \ntold him everything, he and I planned to sit down with the identikit and\nrecord everyone I could remember while everything was still fresh in my mind. \nWe didn't work with the identikit until the very last day because the\nconditions weren't there. The investigative group worked slowly and did poor \nquality work solely because the situation wasn't conducive to working: there \nweren't enough automobiles, especially during the time when there was a \ncurfew, and there were no typewriters for typing transcripts, and no still or \nvideo cameras. I think that this was done on purpose. We're not so poor that \nwe can't supply our investigators with all that stuff. It was done especially \nto draw out the investigation, all the more so since the local authorities saw\nthat the Armenians were leaving at the speed of light, never to return to \nSumgait. And the Armenians had a lot to say I came to an agreement with \nBibishev, I told him myself, \"Don't you worry, if it takes us a month or two \nmonths, I'll be here. I'm not afraid, I looked death in the eyes five times in\nthose two days, I'll help you conduct the investigation.\"\n\nHe and I worked together a great deal, and I used this to shelter Karina, I\ngave them so much to do that for a while they didn't have the time to get to\nher, so that she would at least have a week or two to get back to being her-\nself. She was having difficulty breathing so we looked for a doctor to take x-\nrays. She couldn't eat or drink for nine days, she was nauseous. I didn't eat\nand drank virtually nothing for five days. Then, on the fifth day, when we\nwere in Baku already, the investigator told me, \"How long can you go on like \nthis? Well fine, so you don't want to eat, you don't love yourself, you're\nnot taking care of yourself, but you gave your word that you would see this\ninvestigation through. We need you.\" Then I started eating, because in fact I\nwas exhausted. It wasn't enough that I kept seeing those faces in our apart-\nment in my mind, every day I went to the investigative solitary confinement\ncells and prisons. I don't know . . . we were just everywhere! Probably in\nevery prison in the city of Baku and in all the solitary confinement cells of\nSumgait. At that time they had even turned the drunk tank into solitary \nconfinement.\n\nThus far I have identified 31 of the people who were in our apartment. Mamma \nidentified three, and Karina, two. The total is 36. Marina didn't identify \nanyone, she remembers the faces of two or three, But they weren't among the \nphotographs of those detained. I told of the neighbor I recognized. The one \nwho went after the axe. He still hasn't been detained, he's still on the \nloose. He's gone, and it's not clear if he will be found or not. I don't know \nhis first or last name. I know which building he lived in and I know his \nsisters' faces. But he's not in the city. The investigators informed me that \neven if the investigation is closed and even if the trial is over they will \ncontinue looking for him.\n\nThe 31 people I identified are largely blue-collar workers from various \nplants, without education, and of the very lowest level in every respect.\nMostly their ages range from 20 to 30 years; there was one who was 48. Only\none of them was a student. He was attending the Azerbaijan Petroleum and\nChemical Institute in Sumgait, his mother kept trying to bribe the investiga-\ntor. Once, thinking that I was an employee and not a victim, she said in front\nof me \"I'll set you up a restaurant worth 500 rubles and give you 600 in cash\nsimply for keeping him out of Armenia,\" that is, to keep him from landing in\na prison on Armenian soil. They're all terribly afraid of that, because if the\ninvestigator is talking with a criminal and the criminal doesn't confess even\nthough we identified him, they tell him--in order to apply psychological\npressure--they say, \"Fine, don't confess, just keep silent. When you're in an\nArmenian prison, when they find out who you are, they'll take care of you\nin short order.\" That somehow gets to them. Many give in and start to talk.\n\nThe investigators and I were in our apartment and videotaped the entire\npogrom of our apartment, as an investigative experiment. It was only then\nthat I saw the way they had left our apartment. Even without knowing who was \nin our apartment, you could guess. They stole, for example, all the money and \nall the valuables, but didn't take a single book. They tore them up, burned \nthem, poured water on them, and hacked them with axes. Only the Materials\nfrom the 27th Congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and James \nFenimore Cooper's Last of the Mohigans. Oh yes, lunch was ready, we were \nboiling a chicken, and there were lemons for tea on the table. After they had \nbeen in our apartment, both the chicken and the lemons were gone. That's \nenough to tell you what kind of people were in our apartment, people who don't\neven know anything about books. They didn't take a single book, but they did \ntake worn clothing, food, and even the cheapest of the cheap, worn-out \nslippers.\n\nOf those whom I identified, four were Kafan Azerbaijanis living in Sumgait. \nBasically, the group that went seeking \"revenge\"--let's use their word for \nit--was joined by people seeking easy gain and thrill-seekers. I talked with \none of them. He had gray eyes, and somehow against the back-drop of all that \nblack I remembered him specifically because of his of his eyes. Besides taking\npart in the pogrom of our apartment, he was also involved in the murder of \nTamara Mekhtiyeva from Building 16. She was an older Armenian who had recently\narrived from Georgia, she lived alone and did not have anyone in Sumgait. I \ndon't know why she had a last name like that, maybe she was married to an \nAzerbaijani. I had laid eyes on this woman only once or twice, and know \nnothing about her. I do know that they murdered her in her apartment with an \naxe. Murdering her wasn't enough for them. They hacked her into pieces and \nthrew them into the tub with water.\n\nI remember another guy really well too, he was also rather fair-skinned. You \nknow, all the people who were in our apartment were darker than dark, both \ntheir hair and their skin. And in contrast with them, in addition to the grey-\neyed one, I remember this one fellow, the one l took to be a Lezgin. I \nidentified him. As it turned out he was Eduard Robertovich Grigorian, born\nin the city of Sumgait, and he had been convicted twice. One of our own. How \ndid I remember him? The name Rita was tattooed on his left or right hand. I \nkept thinking, is that Rita or \"puma,\" which it would be if you read the word \nas Latin characters instead of Cyrillic, because the Cyrillic \"T\" was the one \nthat looks like a Latin \"M.\" When they led him in he sat with his hands behind\nhis back. This was at the confrontation. He swore on every holy book, tried to\nput in an Armenian word here and there to try and spark my compassion, and \ntold me that I was making a mistake, and called me \"dear sister.\" He said, \n\"You're wrong, how could I, an Armenian, raise my hand against my own, an \nArmenian,\" and so on. He spoke so convincingly that even the investigator \nasked me, \"Lyuda, are you sure it was he?\" I told him, \"I'll tell you one more\nidentifying mark. If I'm wrong I shall apologize and say I was mistaken. The \nname Rita is tattooed on his left or right hand.\" He went rigid and became \npale. They told him, \"Put your hands on the table.\" He put his hands on the\ntable with the palms up. I said, \"Now turn your hands over,\" but he didn't \nturn his hands over. Now this infuriated me. If he had from the very start\nacknowledged his guilt and said that he hadn't wanted to do it, that they \nforced him or something else, I would have treated him somewhat differently.\nBut he insolently stuck to his story, \"No, I did not do anything, it wasn't \nme.\" When they turned his hands over the name Rita was in fact tattooed on his\nhand. His face distorted and he whispered something wicked. I immediately flew\ninto a rage. There was an ashtray on the table, a really heavy one, made out \nof granite or something, very large, and it had ashes and butts in it. \nCatching myself quite by surprise, I hurled that ashtray at him. But he ducked\nand the ashtray hit the wall, and ashes and butts rained down on his head and \nback. And he smiled. When he smiled it provoked me further. I don't know how, \nbut I jumped over the table between us and started either pounding him or \nstrangling him; I no longer remember which. When I jumped I caught the \nmicrophone cord. The investigator was there, Tolya . . .I no longer recall his\nlast name, and he says, \"Lyudochka, it's a Japanese microphone! Please . . .\n\" And shut off all the equipment on the spot, it was all being video taped. \nThey took him away. I stayed, and they talked to me a little to calm me down, \nbecause we needed to go on working, I only remember Tolya telling me, \"You're \nsome actress! What a performance!\" I said, \"Tolya, honestly . . . \" Beforehand\nthey would always tell me, \"Lyuda, more emotion. You speak as calmly as if \nnothing had happened to you.\" I say, \"I don't have any more strength or \nemotion. All my emotions are behind me now, I no longer have the strength \n. . . I don't have the strength to do anything.\" And he says, \"Lyuda, how were\nyou able to do that?\" And when I returned to normal, drinking tea and watching\nthe tape, I said, \"Can I really have jumped over that table? I never jumped \nthat high in gym class.\"\n\nSo you could say the gang that took over our apartment was international. Of \nthe 36 we identified there was an Armenian, a Russian, Vadim Vorobyev, who \nbeat Mamma, and 34 Azerbaijanis.\n\nAt the second meeting with Grigorian, when he had completely confessed his \nguilt, he told of how on February 27 the Azerbaijanis had come knocking. Among\nthem were guys--if you can call them guys--he knew from prison. They said, \n\"Tomorrow we're going after the Armenians. Meet us at the bus station at three\no'clock.\" He said, \"No, I'm not coming.\" They told him, \"If you don't come \nwe'll kill you.\" He said, \"Alright, I'll come.\" And he went.\n\nThey also went to visit my classmate from our microdistrict, Kamo Pogosian. He\nhad also been in prison; I think that together they had either stolen a \nmotorcycle or dismantled one to get some parts they needed. They called him \nout of his apartment and told him the same thing: \"Tomorrow we're going to get\nthe Armenians. Be there.\" He said, \"No.\" They pulled a knife on him. He said, \n\"I'm not going all the same.\" And in the courtyard on the 27th they stabbed \nhim several times, in the stomach. He was taken to the hospital. I know he was\nin the hospital in Baku, in the Republic hospital. If we had known about that \nwe would have had some idea of what was to come on the 28th.\n\nI'll return to Grigorian, what he did in our apartment. I remember that he\nbeat me along with all the rest. He spoke Azerbaijani extremely well. But he\nwas very fair-skinned, maybe that led me to think that they had it out for\nhim, too. But later it was proved that he took part in the beating and burning\nof Shagen Sargisian. I don't know if he participated in the rapes in our \napartment; I didn't see, I don't remember. But the people who were in our \napartment who didn't yet know that he was an Armenian said that he did. I \ndon't know if he confessed or not, and I myself don't recall because I blacked\nout very often. But I think that he didn't participate in the rape of Karina\nbecause he was in the apartment the whole time. When they carried her into the\ncourtyard, he remained in the apartment.\n\nAt one point I was talking with an acquaintance about Edik Grigorian. From her\nI learned that his wife was a dressmaker, his mother is Russian, he doesn't \nhave a father, and that he's been convicted twice. Well this will be his third\nand, I hope, last sentence. He beat his wife, she was eternally coming to work\nwith bruises. His wife was an Armenian by the name of Rita.\n\nThe others who were detained . . . well they're little beasts. You really can't\ncall them beasts, they're just little beasts. They were robots carrying out\nsomeone else's will, because at the investigation they all said, \"I don't \nunderstand how I could have done that, I was out of my head.\" But we know that\nthey were won around to it and prepared for it, that's why they did it. In the\nname of Allah, in the name of the Koran, in the name of propagating Islam--\nthat's holy to them--that's why they did everything they were commanded to do.\nBecause I saw they didn't have minds of their own, I'm not talking about their\nlevel of cultural sophistication or any higher values. No education, they\nwork, have a slew of children without the means to raise them properly, they \ncrowd them in, like at the temporary housing, and apparently, they were \npromised that if they slaughtered the Armenians they would receive apartments.\nSo off they went. Many of them explained their participation saying, \"they \npromised us apartments.\"\n\nAmong them was one who genuinely repented. I am sure that he repented from the\nheart and that he just despised himself after the incident. He worked at a \nchildren's home, an Azerbaijani, he has two children, and his wife works at \nthe children's home too. Everything that they acquired, everything that they \nhave they earned by their own labor, and wasn't inherited from parents or \ngrandparents. And he said, \"I didn't need anything I just don't know . . . how\nI ended up in that; it was like some hand was guiding me. I had no will of my \nown, I had no strength, no masculine dignity, nothing.\" And the whole time I\nkept repeating, \"Now you imagine that someone did the same to your young wife \nright before your own eyes.\" He sat there and just wailed.\n\nBut that leader in the Eskimo dogskin coat was not detained. He performed a \nmarvelous disappearing act, but I think that they'll get onto him, they just \nhave to work a little, because that Vadim, that boy, according to his\ngrandfather, is in touch with the young person who taught him what to do, how \nto cover his tracks. He was constantly exchanging jackets with other boys he \nknew and those he didn't, either, and other things as well, and changed \nhimself like a chameleon so they wouldn't get onto him, but he was detained.\n\nThat one in the Eskimo dogskin coat was at the Gambarians' after Aleksandr \nGambarian was murdered. He came in and said, \"Let's go, enough, you've spilled\nenough blood here.\"\n\nMaybe Karina doesn't know this but the reason they didn't finish her off was \nthat they were hoping to take her home with them. I heard this from Aunt Tanya\nand her sons, the Kasumovs, who were in the courtyard near the entryway. They \nliked her very much, and they had decided to take her to home with them. When \nKarina came to at one point--she doesn't remember this yet, this the neighbors \nold me--and she saw that there was no one around her, she started crawling to \nthe entryway. They saw that she was still alive and came back, they were \nalready at the third entryway, on their way to the Gambarians'. They came back\nand started beating her to finish her. If she had not come to she would have \nsustained lesser bodily injuries, they would have beat her less. An older \nwoman from our building, Aunt Nazan, an Azerbaijani, all but lay on top of \nKarina, crying and pleading that they leave her alone, but they flung her off.\nThe woman's grown sons were right nearby; they picked her up in their hands \nand led her home. She howled and cried out loudly and swore: God is on Earth, \nhe sees everything, and He won't forgive this.\n\nThere was another woman, too, Aunt Fatima, a sick, aging woman from the first \nfloor, she's already retired. Mountain dwellers, and Azerbaijanis, too, have a\ncustom: If men are fighting, they throw a scarf under their feet to stop them.\nBut they trampled her scarf and sent her home. To trample a scarf is \ntantamount to trampling a woman's honor.\n\nNow that the investigation is going on, now that a lot is behind us and we \nhave gotten back to being ourselves a little, I think about how could these \nevents that are now called the Sumgait tragedy happen? How did they come \nabout? How did it start? Could it have been avoided? Well, it's clear that \nwithout a signal, without permission from the top leadership, it would not \nhave happened. All the same, I'm not afraid to say this, the Azerbaijanis,\nlet other worthy people take no offense, the better representatives of their \nnations, let them take no offense, but the Azerbaijanis in their majority are \na people who are kept in line only by fear of the law, fear of retribution for\nwhat they have done. And when the law said that they could do all that, like\nunleashed dogs who were afraid they wouldn't have time to do everything, they \nthrew themselves from one thing to the next so as to be able to get more done,\nto snatch a bit more. The smell of the danger was already in the air on\nFebruary 27. You could tell that something was going to happen. And everyone \nwho had figured it out took steps to avoid running into those gangs. Many left\nfor their dachas, got plane tickets for the other end of the country, just got\nas far away as their legs would carry them.\n\nFebruary 27 was a Saturday. I was teaching my third class. The director came \ninto my classroom and said that I should let the children out, that there had \nbeen a call from the City Party Committee asking that all teachers gather for \na meeting at Lenin Square. Well, I excused the children, and there were few \nteachers left at school, altogether three women, the director, and six or \nseven men. The rest had already gone home. We got to Lenin Square and there \nwere a great many people there. This was around five-thirty or six in the \nevening, no later. They were saying all kinds of rubbish up on the podium and \nthe crowd below was supporting them stormily, roaring. They spoke over the \nmicrophone about what had happened in Kafan a few days earlier and that the \ndriver of a bus going to some district had recently thrown a small Azerbaijani\nchild off the bus. The speaker affirmed that he was an eyewitness, that he had\nseen it himself..The crowd started to rage: \"Death to the Armenians! They must\nbe killed!\" Then a woman went up on stage. I didn't see the woman because \npeople were clinging to the podium like flies. I could only hear her. The \nwoman introduced herself as coming from Kafan, and said that the Armenians \ncut her daughters' breasts off, and called, \"Sons, avenge my daughters!\" That \nwas enough. A portion of the people on the square took off running in the \ndirection of the factories, toward the beginning of Lenin Street.\n\nWe stood there about an hour. Then the director of School 25 spoke, he gave a \nvery nationalist speech. He said, \"Brother Muslims, kill the Armenians!\" This \nhe repeated every other sentence. When he said this the crowd supported him \nstormily, whistling and shouting \"Karabagh!\" He said, \"Karabagh has been our \nterritory my whole life long, Karabagh is my soul. How can you tear out my \nheart?\" As though an Azerbaijani would die without Karabagh. \"It's our \nterritory, the Armenians will never see it. The Armenians must be eliminated. \nFrom time immemorial Muslims have cleansed the land of infidel Armenians, from\ntime immemorial, that's the way nature created it, that every 20 to 30 years \nthe Azerbaijanis should cleanse the land of filth.\" By filth he meant \nArmenians.\n\nI heard this. Before that I hadn't been listening to the speeches closely.\nMany people spoke and I stood with my back to the podium, talking shop with \nthe other teachers, and somehow it all went right by, it didn't penetrate,\nthat in fact something serious was taking place. Then, when one of our\nteachers said, \"Listen to what he's saying, listen to what idiocy he's \nspouting,\" we listened. That was the speech of that director. Before that we \nlistened to the woman's speech.\n\nRight then in our group--there were nine of us--the mood changed, and the \nsubject of conversation and all school matters were forgotten. Our director of\nstudies, for whom I had great respect, he's an Azerbaijani . . . Before that I\nhad considered him an upstanding and worthy person, if there was a need to \nobtain leave we had asked him, he seemed like a good person. So he tells me,\n\"Lyuda, you know that besides you there are no Armenians on the square? If \nthey find out that you're an Armenian they'll tear you to pieces. Should I \ntell them you're an Armenian? Should I tell them you're an Armenian?\" When he \nsaid it the first time I pretended not to hear it, and then he asked me a \nsecond time. I turned to the director, Khudurova, and said that it was already\nafter eight, I was expected at home, and I should be leaving. She answered, \n\"No, they said that women should stay here until ten o'clock,.and men, until \ntwelve. Stay here.\" There was a young teacher with us, her children were in \nkindergarten and her husband worked shifts. She asked to leave: \"I left my \nchildren at the kindergarten.\" The director excused her. When she let her go I\nturned around, said, \"Good-bye,\" and left with the young teacher, the \nAzerbaijani. I didn't see them after that.\n\nWhen we were walking the buses weren't running, and a crowd from the rally ran\nnearby us. They had apparently gotten all fired up. It must have become too \nmuch for them, and they wanted to seek vengeance immediately, so they rushed \noff. I wasn't afraid this time because I was sure that the other teacher \nwouldn't say that I was an Armenian.\n\nTo make it short, we reached home. Then Karina told of how they had been at \nthe movies and what had happened there. I started telling of my experience and\nagain my parents didn't understand that we were in danger. We watched \ntelevision as usual, and didn't even imagine that tomorrow would be our last \nday. That's how it all was.\n\nAt the City Party Committee I met an acquaintance, we went to school together,\nZhanna, I don't remember her last name, she lives above the housewares store \non Narimanov Street. She was there with her father, for some reason she \ndoesn't have a mother. The two of them were at home alone. While her father \nheld the door she jumped from the third floor, and she was lucky that the \nground was wet and that there wasn't anyone behind the building when she went \nout on the balcony, there was no one there, they were all standing near the \nentryway. That building was also a lucky one in that there were no murders \nthere. She jumped. She jumped and didn't feel any pain in the heat of the \nmoment. A few days later I found out that she couldn't stand up, she had been \ninjured somehow. That's how people in Sumgait saved their lives, their honor, \nand their children: any way they could. \n\nWhere it was possible, the Armenians fought back. My father's first cousin, \nArmen M., lives in Block 30. They found out by phone from one of the victims \nwhat was going on in town. The Armenians in that building all called one \nanother immediately and all of them armed themselves with axes, knives, even \nwith muskets and went up to the roof. They took their infants with them, and \ntheir old women who had been in bed for God knows how many months, they got \nthem right out of their beds and took everyone upstairs. They hooked \nelectricity up to the trap door to the roof and waited, ready to fight. Then \nthey took the daughter of the school board director hostage, she's an \nAzerbaijani who lived in their building. They called the school board director\nand told her that if she didn't help them, the 17 Armenians on the roof, to \nescape alive and unharmed, she'd never see her daughter again. I'm sure, of \ncourse, that Armenians would never lay a hand on a woman, it was just the only\nthing that could have saved them at the time. She called the police. The \nArmenians made a deal with the local police to go into town. Two armored \npersonnel carriers and soldiers were summoned They surrounded the entryway and\nled everyone down from the roof, and off to the side from the armored \npersonnel carriers was a crowd that was on its way to the building at that \nvery moment, into Block 30. That's how they defended themselves.\n\nI heard that our neighbors, Roman and Sasha Gambarian, resisted. They're big, \nstrong guys. Their father was killed. And I heard that the brothers put up a \nstrong defense and lost their father, but were able to save their mother.\n\nOne of the neighbors told me that after it happened, when they were looking \nfor the criminals on March 1 to 2 and detaining everyone they suspected, \npeople hid people in our entryway, maybe people who were injured or perhaps \ndead. The neighbors themselves were afraid to go there, and when they went \nwith the soldiers into our basement they are supposed to have found \nAzerbaijani corpses. I don't know how many. Even if they had been wounded and \nput down there, after two days they would have died from loss of blood or \ninfection--that basement was filled with water. I heard this from the \nneighbors. And later when I was talking with the investigators the subject \ncame up and they confirmed it. I know, too, that for several hours the \nbasement was used to store objects stolen from our apartment. And our neighbor\ncarried out our carpet, along with the rest: he stole it for himself, posing \nas one of the criminals. Everyone was taking his own share, and the neighbor \ntook his, too, and carried it home. And when we came back, when everything \nseemed to have calmed down, he returned it, saying that it was the only thing \nof ours he had managed to \"save.\"\n\nRaya's husband and father defended themselves. The Trdatovs defended \nthemselves, and so did other Armenian families. To be sure there were\nAzerbaijani victims, although we'll never hear anything about them. For some \nreason our government doesn't want to say that the Armenians were not just \nvictims, but that they defended the honor of their sisters and mothers, too. \nIn the TV show \"Pozitsiya\" [Viewpoint] a military man, an officer, said that \nthe Armenians did virtually nothing to defend themselves. But that's not \nimportant, the truth will come out regardless.\n\nSo that's the price we paid those three days. For three days our courage, our \nbravery, and our humanity was tested. It was those three days, and not the \nyears and dozens of years we had lived before them, that showed what we've \nbecome, what we grew up to be. Those three days showed who was who.\n\nOn that I will conclude my narrative on the Sumgait tragedy. It should be said\nthat it's not over yet, the trials are still ahead of us, and the punishments\nreceived by those who so violated us, who wanted to make us into nonhumans \nwill depend on our position and on the work of the investigators, the \nProcuracy, and literally of every person who lent his hand to the investiga-\ntion. That's the price we paid to live in Armenia, to not fear going out on \nthe street at night, to not be afraid to say we're Armenians, and to not fear\nspeaking our native tongue.\n\n October 15,1988\n Yerevan\n\n\t\t\t- - - reference for #008 - - -\n\n[1] _The Sumgait Tragedy; Pogroms against Armenians in Soviet Azerbaijan,\n Volume I, Eyewitness Accounts_, edited by Samuel Shahmuradian, forward by\n Yelena Bonner, 1990, published by Aristide D. Caratzas, NY, pages 118-145\n\n", "Today marks the 78th anniversary of the Armenian genocide of\n2.5 million Turks and Kurds in Eastern Anatolia and x-Soviet\nArmenia. The following letter, which represents a small portion \nof the full text, along with more than 200 pages of historical \ndocuments, scholarly sources, eyewitness accounts and photographs, \nwas sent to President Bill Clinton, members of Congress, editors, \nprogram directors and columnists of major newspapers, journals and \nradio/TV stations for the 78th anniversary of the Armenian genocide \nof 2.5 million Muslim people. On April 23 of every year, the people \nof Turkiye remember their dead. They grieve for lost family and the \nlost homes of their grandfathers. This year the Turkish Nation is \nmourning and praying again for her fallen heroes who gave their \nlives generously and with altruism, so that the future generations \nmay live on that anointed soil of the Turkish land happily and \nprosperously.\n\n------------------------- letter ----------------------------------\n\nDuring the years of World War I, the x-Soviet Armenian Government \nhas planned and perpetrated the 'Genocide' of the Muslim people, which \nnot only took the lives of 2.5 million Muslim people, but was also the \nmethod used to empty the Turkish homeland of its inhabitants. To this day, \nTurkish historic lands remain occupied by the x-Soviet Armenia. In order \nto cover up the fact of its usurpation of the historic Turkish homeland, \nwhich is the crux of Turkish political demands, fascist x-Soviet Armenia \ncontinues its anti-Turkish policy in the following ways:\n\n1. x-Soviet Armenia denies the historical fact of the Turkish Genocide\nin order to shift international public opinion away from its political\nresponsibility.\n\n2. x-Soviet Armenia, employing ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism and Revisionism \nTriangle, attempts to call into question the veracity of the Turkish \nGenocide.\n\n3. x-Soviet Armenia has also implemented state-sponsored terrorism through\nthe ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism and Revisionism Triangle in an attempt to \nsilence the Turkish people's vehement demands and protests.\n\n4. Using all its human, financial, and governmental resources, x-Soviet\nArmenia and its tools in the United States attempt to silence through\nterrorism, bribery and other subversive methods, non-Turkish supporters\nof the Turkish cause, be they political, governmental and humanitarian.\n\nUsing all the aforementioned methods, the x-Soviet Armenian Government \nis attempting to neutralize the international diplomatic community from\nmaking the Turkish Case a contemporary issue.\n\nYet despite the efforts of the x-Soviet Armenian Government and its \nterrorist and revisionist organizations, in the last decades, thanks \nto the struggle of those whose closest ones have been systematically \nexterminated by the Armenians, the international wall of silence on \nthis issue has begun to collapse, and consequently a number of \ngovernments and organizations have become supportive of the recognition \nof the Turkish Genocide.\n\nWith the full knowledge that the struggle for the Turkish territorial\ndemands are still in their initial stages, the Turkish and Kurdish people\nwill unflaggingly continue in this sacred struggle, therefore the victims\nof the Turkish Genocide demand:\n\n1. that the x-Soviet Armenian Government, as the heirs of the Armenian \nDictatorship, recognize the Turkish Genocide;\n\n2. that x-Soviet Armenia return the historic homeland to the Turkish and\nKurdish people;\n\n3. that the x-Soviet Armenian Government make material reparations for \ntheir heinous and unspeakable crime to the victims of the Turkish Genocide;\n\n4. that all world governments, and especially the United States, officially\nrecognize the Turkish Genocide and Turkish territorial rights and refuse\nto succumb to all Armenian political pressure;\n\n5. that the U.S. Government free itself from the friendly position it \nhas adopted towards its unreliable ally, x-Soviet Armenia, and officially \nrecognize the historical fact of the Turkish Genocide as well as be \nsupportive of the pursuit of Turkish territorial demands;\n\n6. that the x-Soviet Republics officially recognize the historical fact \nof the Turkish Genocide and include the cold-blooded extermination of \n2.5 million Muslim people in their history books.\n\nThe awareness of the Turkish people of the necessity of solidarity in the\nefforts to pursue the Turkish Cause is seen by the victims of the first \ngenocide of the 20th century as a positive step. Furthermore, a new \ngeneration has risen - equipped with a deep sense of commitment, politically\nmature and conscious, who determinedly pursue the Turkish Cause, through\nall necessary means, ranging from the political and diplomatic to the \narmed struggle. Therefore, the victims of the Turkish Genocide call upon\nall Muslims in the United States and Canada to participate vigorously in \nthe political, cultural and religious activities of the 78th Anniversary\nof the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people.\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "In revision of history <9304131827@zuma.UUCP> as posted by Turkish Government\nAgents under the guise of sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic) LIE in response to\narticle <1993Apr13.033213.4148@urartu.sdpa.org> hla@urartu.sdpa.org and\nscribed: \n\n[(*] Orhan Gunduz is blown up. Gunduz receives an ultimatum: Either \n[(*] he gives up his honorary position or he will be \"executed\". He \n[(*] refuses. \"Responsibility\" is claimed by JCAG and SDPA.\n\n[(*] May 4, 1982 - Cambridge, Massachusetts\n[(*]\tOrhan Gunduz, the Turkish honorary consul in Boston, would not bow \n[(*]\tto the Armenian terrorist ultimatum that he give up his title of \n[(*]\t\"honorary consul\". Now he is attacked and murdered in cold blood.\n[(*]\tPresident Reagan orders an all-out manhunt-to no avail. An eye-\n[(*]\twitness who gave a description of the murderer is shot down. He \n[(*]\tsurvives... but falls silent. One of the most revolting \"triumphs\" in \n[(*]\tthe senseless, mindless history of Armenian terrorism. Such a murder \n[(*]\tbrings absolutely nothing - except an ego boost for the murderer \n[(*]\twithin the Armenian terrorist underworld, which is already wallowing \n[(*]\tin self-satisfaction.\n[(*] \n[(*] Were you involved in the murder of Sarik Ariyak? \n\n[(*] \tDecember 17, 1980 - Sydney\n[(*]\tTwo Nazi Armenians massacre Sarik Ariyak and his bodyguard, Engin \n[(*] Sever. JCAG and SDPA claim responsibility.\n\nMr. Turkish Governmental Agent: prove that the SDPA even existed in 1980 or\n1982! Go ahead, provide us the newspaper accounts of the assassinations and \nshow us the letters SDPA! The Turkish government is good at excising text from\ntheir references, let's see how good thay are at adding text to verifiable \nnewspaper accounts! \n\nThe Turkish government can't support any of their anti-Armenian claims as\ntypified in the above scribed garbage! That government continues to make \nfalse and libelous charges for they have no recourse left after having made \nfools out of through their attempt at a systematic campaign at denying and \ncovering up the Turkish genocide of the Armenians. \n\nJust like a dog barking at a moving bus, it barks, jumps, yells, until the\nbus stops, at which point it just walks away! Such will be with this posting!\nTurkish agents level the most ridiculous charges, and when brought to answer, \nthey are silent, like the dog after the bus stops!\n\nThe Turkish government feels it can funnel a heightened state of ultra-\nnationalism existing in Turkey today onto UseNet and convince people via its \nrevisionist, myopic, and incidental view of themselves and their place in the \nworld. \n\nThe resulting inability to address Armenian and Greek refutations of Turkey`s\nre-write of history is to refer to me as a terrorist, and worse, claim --\nas part of the record -- I took responsibility for the murder of 2 people!\n\nWhat a pack of raging fools, blinded by anti-Armenian fascism. It's too bad\nthe socialization policies of the Republic of Turkey requires it to always \nfind non-Turks to de-humanize! Such will be their downfall! \n\n", "\n\nI don't have the faintest idea what literature it is to which you \nrefer. Is this an explicit statement by some document? Or is it your \ninterpretation of statements in such literature? Or is this a figment \nof your imagination or a Nazi Armenian propaganda movie script? In \nany case, a fascinating piece of analysis. Here are the facts:\n\n\nSource: Walker, Christopher: \"Armenia: The Survival of a Nation.\"\n New York (St. Martin's Press), 1980.\n\nThis generally pro-Armenian work contains the following information\nof direct relevance to the Nazi Holocaust: \n\na) Dro (the butcher), the former dictator of x-Soviet Armenia and the \narchitect of the genocide of 2.5 million Muslims, the most respected \nof Nazi Armenian leaders, established an Armenian Provisional Republic \nin Berlin during World War II; \n\nb) this 'provisional government' fully endorsed and espoused the social \ntheories of the Nazis, declared themselves and all Armenians to be members \nof the Aryan 'Super-Race;' \n\nc) they published an Anti-Semitic, racist journal, thereby aligning themselves \nwith the Nazis and their efforts to exterminate the Jews; and, \n\nd) they mobilized an Armenian Army of up to 30,000 members which fought side \nby side with the Wehrmacht.\n\n \nIn fact, by 1942, Nazi Armenians in Europe had established a vast \nnetwork of pro-German collaborators, that extended over two continents. \nThousands of Armenians were serving the German army and Waffen-SS in \nRussia and Western Europe. Armenians were involved in espionage and \nfifth-column activities for Hitler in the Balkans and Arabian Peninsula. \nThey were promised an 'independent' state under German 'protection' in \nan agreement signed by the 'Armenian National Council.' (A copy of \nthis agreement can be found in the 'Congressional Record,' November 1, \n1945; see Document 1.) On this side of the Atlantic, Nazi Armenians \nwere aware of their brethrens alliance. They had often expressed \npro-Nazi sentiments until America entered the war.\n\n\nIn 1941, while the Jews were being assembled for their doom in the Nazi\nconcentration camps, the Nazi Armenians in Germany formed the first\nArmenian battalion to fight alongside the Nazis. In 1943, this battalion \nhad grown into eight battalions of 30,000-strong under the command of Dro \n(the butcher), who was the former dictator of x-Soviet Armenia and the \narchitect of the cold-blooded genocide of 2.5 million Turks and Kurds \nbetween 1914-1920. An Armenian National Council was formed by the notorious \nDashnak Party leaders in Berlin, which was recognized by the Nazis. Encouraged \nby this, the Armenians summarily formed a provisional government that endorsed \nand espoused fully the principles of the Nazis and declared themselves as the \nmembers of the Aryan super race and full participants to Hitler's policy of \nextermination of the Jews.\n\nThis Armenian-Nazi conspiracy against the Jews during WWII was an \"encore\"\nperformance staged by the Armenians during WWI, when they back-stabbed and\nexterminated 2.5 million Muslims by colluding with the invading Russian army.\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\n\nDitto.\n\nSource: \"Men Are Like That\" by Leonard Ramsden Hartill. The Bobbs-Merrill\nCompany, Indianapolis (1926). (305 pages). \n(Memoirs of an Armenian officer who participated in the genocide of 2.5 \n million Muslim people)\n\n\n\n\nYou have set up straw horses and knocked them down. I'm not impressed. \nLet us ask Armenian scholars - shall we?\n\n\nSource: K. S. Papazian, \"Patriotism Perverted,\" Baikar Press, Boston, 1934.\n\npp. 17-18.\n\n\"It seems that terrorism against their own co-nationals has been a prominent\n part of the revolutionary activities of the Dashnag leaders of the Caucasus.\n Organized to fight the Turks, these chieftains have been more successful\n in their fight against their Armenian opponents in Turkey, and the Caucasus,\n very often defenseless and innocent.\"\n\np. 25.\n\n\"We were defeated\".\n\np. 38.\n\n\"The fact remains, however, that the leaders of the Turkish Armenian section\n of the Dashnagtzoutune did not carry out their promise of loyalty to the\n Turkish cause when the Turks entered the war...and a call was sent for \n Armenian volunteers to fight the Turks on the Caucasian front.\"\n\np. 38.\n\n\"Thousands of Armenians from all over the world, flocked to the standards of\n such famous fighters as Antranik, Kery, Dro, etc. The Armenian volunteer\n regiments rendered valuable service to the Russian Army in the years of\n 1914-15-16.\"\n\n\nBy the way, here is the entire paragraph.\n\n\"We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as \n ways of escape for the Tartars and then proceeded in the work \n of extermination. Our troops surrounded village after village. \n Little resistance was offered. Our artillery knocked the huts \n into heaps of stone and dust and when the villages became untenable \n and inhabitants fled from them into fields, bullets and bayonets \n completed the work. Some of the Tartars escaped of course. They \n found refuge in the mountains or succeeded in crossing the border \n into Turkey. The rest were killed. And so it is that the whole \n length of the borderland of Russian Armenia from Nakhitchevan to \n Akhalkalaki from the hot plains of Ararat to the cold mountain \n plateau of the North were dotted with mute mournful ruins of \n Tartar villages. They are quiet now, those villages, except for \n howling of wolves and jackals that visit them to paw over the \n scattered bones of the dead.\" \n\n Ohanus Appressian\n \"Men Are Like That\"\n p. 202.\n\nNow wait, there is more.\n\n1) Armenians did slaughter the entire Muslim population of Van.[1,2,3,4,5]\n2) Armenians did slaughter 42% of Muslim population of Bitlis.[1,2,3,4]\n3) Armenians did slaughter 31% of Muslim population of Erzurum.[1,2,3,4]\n4) Armenians did slaughter 26% of Muslim population of Diyarbakir.[1,2,3,4]\n5) Armenians did slaughter 16% of Muslim population of Mamuretulaziz.[1,2,3,4]\n6) Armenians did slaughter 15% of Muslim population of Sivas.[1,2,3,4]\n7) Armenians did slaughter the entire Muslim population of the x-Soviet\n Armenia.[1,2,3,4]\n8)....\n\n[1] McCarthy, J., \"Muslims and Minorities, The Population of Ottoman \n Anatolia and the End of the Empire,\" New York \n University Press, New York, 1983, pp. 133-144.\n\n[2] Karpat, K., \"Ottoman Population,\" The University of Wisconsin Press,\n 1985.\n\n[3] Hovannisian, R. G., \"Armenia on the Road to Independence, 1918. \n University of California Press (Berkeley and \n Los Angeles), 1967, pp. 13, 37.\n\n[4] Shaw, S. J., 'On Armenian collaboration with invading Russian armies \n in 1914, \"History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey \n (Volume II: Reform, Revolution & Republic: The Rise of \n Modern Turkey, 1808-1975).\" (London, Cambridge University \n Press 1977). pp. 315-316.\n\n[5] \"Gochnak\" (Armenian newspaper published in the United States), May 24, \n 1915.\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nThere's your problem right there. 'ASALA/SDPA/ARF' crooks/idiots stole\nyour brain. Just watch...\n\nSource: \"World Alive, A Personal Story\" by Robert Dunn. Crown Publishers, \nInc., New York (1952). \n(Memoirs of an American officer who witnessed the Armenian genocide of 2.5 \n million Muslim people)\n\np. 361 (seventh paragraph) and p. 362 (first paragraph).\n\n 'The most are inside houses. Come you and look.'\n 'No, dammit! My stomach isn't-'\n 'One is a Turkish officer in uniform. Him you must see.'\n \"We were under those trees by the mosque, in an open space....\n 'I don't believe you,\" I said, but followed to a nail-studded door. The \n man pushed it ajar, then spurred away, leaving me to check on the corpse. \n I thought I should, this charge was so constant, so gritted my teeth and \n went inside.\n\n The place was cool but reeked of sodden ashes, and was dark at first, for \n its stone walls had only window slits. Rags strewed the mud floor around an \n iron tripod over embers that vented their smoke through roof beams black \n with soot. All looked bare and empty, but in an inner room flies buzzed. As \n the door swung shut behind me I saw they came from a man's body lying face \n up, naked but for its grimy turban. He was about fifty years old by what \n was left of his face - a rifle butt had bashed an eye. The one left slanted, \n as with Tartars rather than with Turks. Any uniform once on him was gone, so \n I'd no proof which he was, and quickly went out, gagging at the mess of his \n slashed genitals.\"\n\np. 363 (first paragraph). \n\n 'How many people lived there?'\n 'Oh, about eight hundred.' He yawned.\n 'Did you see any Turk officers?'\n 'No, sir. I was in at dawn. All were Tartar civilians in mufti.'\n\n \"The lieutenant dozed off, then I, but in the small hours a voice woke me - \n Dro's. He stood in the starlight bawling out an officer. Anyone keelhauled\n so long and furiously I'd never heard. Then abruptly Dro broke into \n laughter, quick and simple as child's. Both were a cover for his sense\n of guilt, I thought, or hoped. For somehow, despite my boast of irreligion,\n Christian massacring 'infidels' was more horrible than the reverse would\n have been.\n\n From daybreak on, Armenian villagers poured in from miles around.....\n The women plundered happily, chattering like ravens as they picked over\n the carcass of Djul. They hauled out every hovel's chattels, the last \n scrap of food or cloth, and staggered away, packing pots, saddlebags, \n looms, even spinning-wheels.\n\n 'Thank you for a lot, Dro,' I said to him back in camp. 'But now I must \n leave.'...We shook hands, the captain said 'A bientot, mon camarade.' And \n for hours the old Molokan scout and I plodded north across parching plains. \n Like Lot's wife I looked back once to see smoke bathing all, doubtless in \n a sack of other Moslem villages up to the line of snow that was Iran.'\"\n\np. 354.\n\n\"At morning tea, Dro and his officers spread out a map of this whole\n high region called the Karabakh. Deep in tactics, they spoke Russian,\n but I got their contempt for Allied 'neutral' zones and their distrust\n of promises made by tribal chiefs. A campaign shaped; more raids on\n Moslem villages.\"\n\np. 358.\n\n\"It will be three hours to take,\" Dro told me. We'd close in on three\n sides.\n\"The men on foot will not shoot, but use only the bayonets,\" Merrimanov\nsaid, jabbing a rifle in dumbshow.\n\"That is for morale,\" Dro put in. \"We must keep the Moslems in terror.\"\n\"Soldiers or civilians?\" I asked.\n\"There is no difference,\" said Dro. \"All are armed, in uniform or not.\"\n\"But the women and children?\"\n\"Will fly with the others as best they may.\"\n\np. 360.\n\n\"The ridges circled a wide expanse, its floors still. Hundreds of feet \n down, the fog held, solid as cotton flock. 'Djul lies under that,' said \n Dro, pointing. 'Our men also attack from the other sides.'\n\n Then, 'Whee-ee!' - his whistle lined up all at the rock edge. Bayonets\n clicked upon carbines. Over plunged Archo, his black haunches rippling;\n then followed the staff, the horde - nose to tail, bellies taking the\n spur. Armenia in action seemed more like a pageant than war, even though \n I heard our Utica brass roar.\n\n As I watched from the height, it took ages for Djul to show clear. A tsing\n of machine-gun fire took over from the thumping batteries; cattle lowed,\n dogs barked, invisible, while I ate a hunk of cheese and drank from a snow\n puddle. Mist at last folded upward as men shouted, at first heard faintly.\n The came a shrill wailing.\n\n Now among the cloud-streaks rose darker wisps - smoke. Red glimmered about\n house walls of stone or wattle, into dry weeds on roofs. A mosque stood in\n clump of trees, thick and green. Through crooked alleys on fire, horsemen\n were galloping after figures both mounted and on foot.\n\n 'Tartarski!' shouted the gunner by me. Others pantomimed them in escape\n over the rocks, while one twisted a bronze shell-nose, loaded, and yanked\n breech-cord, firing again and again. Shots wasted, I thought, when by\n afternoon I looked in vain for fallen branch or body. But these shots and\n the white bursts of shrapnel in the gullies drowned the women's cries.\n\n At length all shooting petered out. I got on my horse and rode down toward\n Djul. It burned still but little flame showed now. The way was steep and \n tough, through dense scrub. Finally on flatter ground I came out suddenly,\n through alders, on smoldering houses. Across trampled wheat my brothers-in-\n arms were leading off animals, several calves and a lamb.\"\n\np. 361 (fourth paragraph).\n\n\"Corpses came next, the first a pretty child with straight black hair, \n large eyes. She looked about twelve years old. She lay in some stubble \n where meal lay scattered from the sack she'd been toting. The bayonet \n had gone through her back, I judged, for blood around was scant. Between \n the breasts one clot, too small for a bullet wound, crusted her homespun \n dress.\n\n The next was a boy of ten or less, in rawhide jacket and knee-pants. He \n lay face down in the path by several huts. One arm reached out to the \n pewter bowl he'd carried, now upset upon its dough. Steel had jabbed \n just below his neck, into the spine. \n\n There were grownups, too, I saw as I led the sorrel around. Djul was \n empty of the living till I looked up to see beside me Dro's German-speaking \n colonel. He said all Tartars who had not escaped were dead.\"\n\np. 358.\n\n \"...more stories of Armenian murdering Turks when the czarist troops fled\n north. My hosts told me of their duty here: to keep tabs on brigands, \n Turkish troop shifts, hidden arms, spies - Christian, Red or Tartar -\n coming in from Transcaucasus. Then they spoke of the hell that would \n break loose if Versailles were to put, as threatened, the six 'Armenian'\n vilayets of Turkey under the control of Erevan...\n\n An Armenia without Armenians! Turks under Christian rule? His lips\n smacked in irony under the droopy red moustache. That's bloodshed - just\n Smyrna over again on a bigger scale.\"\n\nSerdar Argic", "Turkish Historical Revision <9305111942@zuma.UUCP> via dotage sera@zuma.UUCP \n(Serdar Argic) responded to article <1sn5f5INNkh6@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU> \n\n[MP] Actually, I would like to get a compilation of these one liners, \n[MP] so that I could print them out and show them to my friends over the \n[MP] summer, and they can see what kind of clowns exist out there in Chicago.\n\nCheck out alt.fans.serdar.argic!\n\n[(*] Well, does it change the fact that during the period of 1914 to 1920, \n[(*] the Armenian Government ordered, incited, assisted and participated \n[(*] in the genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people because of race, religion\n[(*] and national origin?\n\nMuslim race? Muslim national origin? You fool!\n\n[(*] 1) Armenians did slaughter the entire Muslim population of Van.[1,2,3,4,5]\n\nNO. Today: Muslims 100%, Armenians 0%\n\n[(*] 2) Armenians did slaughter 42% of Muslim population of Bitlis.[1,2,3,4]\n\nNO. Today: Muslims 100%, Armenians 0%\n\n[(*] 3) Armenians did slaughter 31% of Muslim population of Erzurum.[1,2,3,4]\n\nNO. Today: Muslims 100%, Armenians 0%\n\n[(*] 4) Armenians did slaughter 26% of Muslim population of Diyarbakir.[1,2,\n[(*] 3,4]\n\nNO. Today: Muslims 100%, Armenians 0%\n\n[(*] 5) Armenians did slaughter 16% of Muslim population of Mamuretulaziz.[1,\n[(*] 2,3,4]\n\nNO. Today: Muslims 100%, Armenians 0%\n\n[(*] 6) Armenians did slaughter 15% of Muslim population of Sivas.[1,2,3,4]\n\nNO. Today: Muslims 100%, Armenians 0%\n\n[(*] 7) Armenians did slaughter the entire Muslim population of the x-Soviet\n[(*] Armenia.[1,2,3,4]\n\nNo. The Azeri population of Armenia in 1988, after anti-Armenian pogroms in\nAzerbaijan, was kicked out and sent to Azerbaijan. The remaining Muslims \nstayed in Armenia!\n\n[(*] [1] McCarthy, J., \"Muslims and Minorities, The Population of Ottoman \n[(*] Anatolia and the End of the Empire,\" New York \n[(*] University Press, New York, 1983, pp. 133-144.\n\nLet's check it out! On page 121 of this Turkish suggested reference we read:\n\n \"The 1927 Turkish census registered not one person of the Gregorian Armenian\n faith in Van, only one in Bayazit, and twelve in Erzurum. A people who had\n lived in eastern Anatolia since before recorded history were simply gone.\"\n\n[(*] [2] Karpat, K., \"Ottoman Population,\" The University of Wisconsin Press,\n[(*] 1985.\n\nLet's check it out, but first of all the complete title of this reference\nincludes the words \"1830-1914\". Thus such a reference cannot support the \nabove claimed garbage! However, since this is a Turkish suggested reference,\non pages 51 and on Table I2-B it states there were 2.4 million Armenians in\nTurkey from 1844-1856. I guess they \"were simply gone\" after WWI!\n\n[(*] [3] Hovannisian, R. G., \"Armenia on the Road to Independence, 1918. \n[(*] University of California Press (Berkeley and \n[(*] Los Angeles), 1967, pp. 13, 37.\n\nLet's check it out! On page 48 of this Turkish-suggested reference, under\nsub-title, \"Deportation and Massacre of Turkish Armenians\" it states:\n\n \"Several authors assert that Armenian resistance at Van constituted a key\n factor in the Turkish evacuation of Persia and motivated the Ittihadist\n [Young Turk] leaders to annihilate the Turkish Armenians. The question of\n responsibility for the massacres or deportation of nearly all Ottoman\n Armenians has evolved into a polemic. Hundreds of books, articles, and\n documents have been published to describe the horrifying scenes of violence\n and death. Many writers, such as the British Bryce and Toynbee, French Pinon,\n German Lepsius, American Morganthau and Gibbons, have insisted that the\n massacres were predetermined and ruthlessly executed. The have refuted the\n Ottoman government's official publications and justifications by\n substantiating that anti-Armenian measures were deliberated by the \n Ittihadists even before the outbreak of war. The fact remains than an \n estimated eight hundred thousand to over a million Armenians perished within\n a few months, and several hundred thousand more succumbed in the following\n years to the ravages of disease, famine, and refugee life. Unknown numbers\n of women and children were converted forcibly to Islam, possessed by\n Turkish men, or adopted by Moslem families.\"\n\n\n[(*][4] Shaw, S. J., 'On Armenian collaboration with invading Russian armies \n[(*] in 1914, \"History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey \n[(*] (Volume II: Reform, Revolution & Republic: The Rise of \n[(*] Modern Turkey, 1808-1975).\" (London, Cambridge University \n[(*] Press 1977). pp. 315-316.\n\nStanford Shaw is a paid liar/revisionist for the Turkish government, and has\nbeen exposed as a plagiarizer! For example:\n\nExperts from an interview (in Greek) with Professor Spyros Vryonis (from NYC's\nNational Herald, 3/12/93) [Thanks, Mr. G.B.]\n\n \"Few people know of the problem I faced at UCLA when Professor Stanford\n Shaw was due for promotion. I knew him to be Turkey's man; due to my\n reading knowledge of Turkish and my seniority over him, I was a member\n of the promotion committee. For that case, I sat down and read his entire\n treatise \"History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey\". It took me\n three months and I found out, from volume I, that he had plagiarized \n Uzun Jarsoglu, an eminent Turkish specialist on Ottoman history. Shaw\n himself claimed in his introduction that his treatise was the outcome \n of a 20-year search through the Ottoman Archives. Well, I went on leave \n and managed to show 40% of Volume I, containing around 5000 sentences, \n to be the result of plagiarism, matching each sentence with passages \n from the original work. He had even reproduced the errors. So I produced a\n 500-pages manuscript and submitted a 60-pages report on Shaw's plagiarism. \n\n The University, however, rejected my report and, after a closed meeting,\n promoted Stanford Shaw to Distinguished Professor. I paid a price for \n all this: upset by the whole process, I confronted the entire University\n structure and was considered to be a chauvinist and madman. I asked for\n permission to run a seminar on Shaw's book that was denied by the President\n of the University. While the Center for Near Eastern Studies granted me\n permission, the President was depriving me of my academic freedom. Luckily,\n the Dean refused to give in and I did run the seminar, attended by more \n than 150 academic people, in which I uncovered Stanford Shaw, who refused\n to attend. As a punishment, the University froze all my raises.\"\n\n[5] \"Gochnak\" (Armenian newspaper published in the United States), May 24, \n 1915.\n\nNo chance! There was no May 24th, 1915 issue of Gochnak!\n\n", "\n[FARID] In support of the preservation of the territorial integrity of \n[FARID] Azerbaijan and its independence from Russian rule, the Iranians which \n[FARID] includes millions of Azerbaijanis will have Armenia retreat from the \n[FARID] territory of Azerbaijan. \n\nOh, they will? This should prove quite interesting!\n\n[FARID] To count on Iranian help to supposedly counter Turkish influence will \n[FARID] be a fatal error on the part of Armenia as long as Armenia in \n[FARID] violation of international law has Azerbaijani lands in occupation. \n\nArmenia is not counting on Iranian help. As far as violations of international\nlaws, which international law gives Azerbaijan the right to attack and \ndepopulate the Armenians in Karabakh?\n\n[FARID] If Armenian aggression continues in the territory of Azerbaijan, not \n[FARID] only there won't be any aid from Iran to Armenia but also steps will \n[FARID] be taken to have Armenian army back in Armenia. \n\nAnd who do you speak for? Rafsanjani?\n\n[FARID] The Azerbaijanis of Iran will be the guarantors of this policy. As for \n[FARID] scaring Iranians or Turks from the Russian power, experts on present \n[FARID] and future military potentials of these people would not put much \n[FARID] stock on the Russain power as the sole power in the region for long!!! \n\nWell, Farid, your supposed experts are not expert! The Russians have had\nnon-stop influence in the Caucasus since the Treaty of Turkmanchay in 1828.\nHmm... that makes it 1993-1828 = 165 years! \n\nOh, I see the Azeris from Iran are going to force out the Armenians from \nKarabakh! That will be a real good trick! \n\n[FARID] Iran is not alian to developing the capability to produce the A bomb \n[FARID] and a reliable delivery system (refer to recent news releases \n[FARID] regarding the potential of Iran). \n\nSo the Azeris from Iran are going to force the Armenians from Karabakh by\nforcing the Iranian government to drop an atomic bomb on these Armenians.\n\n[FARID] The moral of the story is that, you don't go invading your neighbor's \n[FARID] home (Azerbaijan) and flash Russia's guns when questioned about it. \n\nOh, but it's just fine if you drop an atomic bomb on your neighbor! You are\na damn fool, Farid!\n\n[FARID] (Marshal Shapashnikov may have to eat his words regarding Turkey in a \n[FARID] few short years!). \n\nSo you are going to drop an atomic bomb on Russia as well. \n\n[FARID] Peaceful resolution of the Armenian-Azerbaijani conflict is the only \n[FARID] way to go. Armenia may soon find the fruits of Aggression very bitter \n[FARID] indeed.\n\nAnd the Armenians will take your \"peaceful\" dropping of an atomic bomb as\nan example of Iranian Azeri benevolence! You sir are a poor example of an \nIranian Azeri! \n\nHa! And to think I had a nice two day stay in Tabriz back in 1978! \n\n", "Davidian-babble:\n\n\nTurkish government on usenet? How long are you going to keep repeating\nthis utterly idiotic [and increasingly saddening] drivel?\n\noz", "\nIt is more appropriate to address netters with their names as they appear in\ntheir signatures (I failed to do so since you did not bother to sign your\nposting). Not only because it is the polite thing to do, but also to avoid\naddressing ladies with \"Mr.\", as you have done.\n\nSecondly, the island of which the name is more correctly spelled as Cyprus has\nnever been Greek, but rather, it has been home to a bi-communal society formed\nof Greeks and Turks. It seems that you know as little about the history and\nthe demography of the island, as you know about the essence of Turkey's \nmilitary intervention to it under international agreements.\n\nBe that as it may, an analogy between an act of occupation in history and what\nis going on today on Azerbaijani land, can only be drawn with the expansionist\npolicy that Armenia is now pursuing.\n\nBut, I could agree that it is not for us to issue diagnoses to the political\nconduct of countries, and promulgate them in such terminology as\n\"itchy-bitchy\"... \n\nOnur Yalcin\n", "\n\nHow quaint of you to point this out, and then to completely ignore\nall of the blatant lies you've trotted out. The scenario and genocide \nstaged by the Armenians 78 years ago in Eastern Anatolia and x-Soviet\nArmenia is being reenacted again - this time in Azerbaijan. There are \nremarkable similarities between the plots, the perpetrators, and the \nunderdogs. \n\nRemember, in article <2BAC262D.25249@news.service.uci.edu>, you have \nblatantly lied and still have not corrected yourself.\n\n\nI'll let the rest of the net judge this on its own merits.\n\nSource: 'The Sunday Times,' 1 March 1992 (a British Weekly, written by \n Thomas Goltz, from Agdam, Azerbaijan.)\n\n ARMENIAN SOLDIERS MASSACRE HUNDREDS OF FLEEING FAMILIES.\n\n The spiralling violence gripping the outer republics of the former\nSoviet Union gained new impetus yesterday with cold-blooded slaughter of\nhundreds of women and children in war-racked Nagorno-Karabakh.\n Survivors reported that Armenian soldiers shot and bayoneted more\nthan 450 Azeris, many of them women and children, who were fleeing an\nattack on their town. Hundreds, possibly thousands, were missing and\nfeared dead.\n The attackers killed most of the soldiers and volunteers defending\nthe women and children. They then turned their guns on the terrified\nrefugees. The few survivors later described what happened:\" That's when\nthe real slaughter began,\" said Azer Hajiev, one of three soldiers to\nsurvive. \"The Armenians just shot and shot. And then they came in and\nstarted carving up people with their bayonets and knives.\"\n \" They were shooting, shooting, shooting\", echoed Rasia Aslanova, who\narrived in Agdam with other women and children who made their way through\nArmenian lines. She said her husband, Kayun, and a son-in-law were killed\nin front of her. Her daughter was still missing.\n One boy who arrived in Agdam had an ear sliced off.\n\n The survivors said 2000 others, some of whom had fled separately,\nwere still missing in the gruelling terrain; many could perish from their\nwounds or the cold.\n By late yesterday, 479 deaths had been registered at the morgue in\nAgdam's morgue, and 29 bodies had been buried in the cemetery. Of the\nseven corpses I saw awaiting burial, two were children and three were\nwomen, one shot through the chest at point blank range.\n Agdam hospital was a scene of carnage and terror. Doctors said they\nhad 140 patients who escaped slaughter, most with bullet injuries or deep\nstab wounds.\n Nor were they safe in Agdam. On friday night rockets fell on the city\nwhich has a population of 150,000, destroying several buildings and\nkilling one person.\n\nNow wait, there is more.\n\n IT'S INHUMANE TO IGNORE THIS VIOLENCE\n\nThe stories of survivors of Karabag massacre:\n\n69 year old Hatin Nine telling:\n\n-''My Twin grandchildren were cut to pieces in front of my eyes. They told\nme: We won't kill you. But the babies have to die in front of your eyes.''\n\n72 year old Huseyin Ibrahimoglu:\n\n- ''Our Turkish village in Khojalu Town was blown up in two hours.\n Turks, you must die.''\n\n28 year old Gulsum Huseyin:\n\n- ''They bayonetted my 3 year old daughter in her stomach in front of\n my eyes.''\n\nAre these stories lies? Have the eye-witnesses been day-dreaming?\nWere these stories forged by Turkish journalists in the region?\n\nThe nonsense of such a claim is clear from the writings of British\nJournalists, too. Two days before we had quoted from a Sunday Times\narticle. They[British] reported the events in Karabag even before\nTurkish journalists. What is more here are the pictures. Pictures\nof people who were bayonetted, whose eyes were gouged, ears cut off.\n\nEven the Armenian Radio couldn't claim these \"lies.\" They are saying\n\"exaggeration.\" That means ''somethings'' have happened but the\nsituation is not as bad as reported. Perhaps that village of Khojalu\ntown was destroyed in 4 hours, instead of 2... Or Gulsum Huseyin's\n3 year old daughter was bayonetted in her chest instead of stomach...\n\nThe massacre is clearly seen with all its dimensions. The effects of\nthis massacre on Karabag and environs cannot be reduced by any word.\n\nSome of the western press', led by some French Newspapers, ability\nto ''close their eyes'' is nothing but complicity in this massacre.\n\nYesterday we gave samples from Le Figaro. Until yesterday's print\nno news about the real events in Karabag were printed. So were the\nFrench TV channels.. The subject they considered related to Karabag\nwas ''The necessity of protecting Armenians against Azeri attacks.''\n\nThe age we are living in is termed a human rights age. There are lots\nof organizations such as United Nations and CSCE(Conference on Security\nand Cooperation in Europe), and rules, all designed to fight against human\nrights violations. International reactions must be made with international\ncooperation. With support of everybody and every organization claiming\nto be civilized.\n\nCould there be a more serious human rights violation than that of the\nright to live -and with such levels of barbarity and cruelty-? Where\nis the cooperation? Where are the reactions? And the intellectuals,\njournalists, writers, TV stations of certain western countries such\nas France who are fast to claim leadership of \"human rights?\"\nWhere are you?\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nA typical Nazi/racist Armenian of 'ASALA/SDPA/ARF'. Can it be that\ncriminal/Nazi Armenians of ASALA/SDPA/ARF hate Muslims for ideological \nreasons regardless of what they do? Between 1914 and 1920, your criminal\nArmenian grandparents committed unheard-of crimes, resorted to all \nconceivable methods of despotism, organized massacres, poured petrol \nover babies and burned them, raped women and girls in front of their \nparents who were bound hand and foot, took girls from their mothers \nand fathers and appropriated personal property and real estate. And \ntoday, they put Azeris in the most unbearable conditions any other \nnation had ever known in history.\n \n\nSource: The Times, 2 March 1992\n\nCORPSES LITTER HILLS IN KARABAKH\n\nANATOL LIEVEN COMES UNDER FIRE WHILE FLYING WITH AZERBAIJANI FORCES \nTO INVESTIGATE THE MASS KILLINGS OF REFUGEES BY ARMENIAN TROOPS...\n\nAs we swooped low over the snow-covered hills of Nagorno-Karabagh we saw \nthe scattered corpses. Apparently, the refugees had been shot down as \nthey ran. An Azerbaijani film of the places we flew over, shown to \njournalists afterwards, showed DOZENS OF CORPSES lying in various parts \nof the hills.\n\nThe Azerbaijanis claim that AS MANY AS 1000 have died in a MASS KILLING \nof AZERBAIJANIS fleeing from the town of Khodjaly, seized by Armenians \nlast week. A further 4,000 are believed to be wounded, frozen to death \nor missing... \n\nSeven of us squatted in the cabin of an Azerbaijani M24 attack helicopter \nas we flew to investigate the claims of the mass killings. Suddenly there \nwas a thump against the underside of the aircraft, a red flash of tracer \nripped past the starboard wing, and the helicopter rocked sharply. We \nswung round, and there was a deafening burst of fire from the cannon \nunder our wing as the helicopter crew returned fire.\n\nWe had been fired on from an Armenian anti-aircraft post. We swung round \nagain, tipped to starboard and appeared to dive straight down into a \nvalley. The brown earth swooped around our heads, the helicopter swung \nround again and followed the contours of the ground. Our cannon fired \nrepeated blasts.\n\nLater it emerged that a civilian helicopter that we had been escorting \nhad landed successfully at Nakhichevanik in the east of the disputed \nenclave of Nagorno-Karabakh, to pick up some of the dead. We had, in \nfact, been attacked both by ground fire and by an Armenian helicopter. \nI had seen the Armenian helicopter intermittently through the window, \nits cannons firing, but had thought - mistakenly - that it was on \n\"our side\". Our group of Western journalists had embarked on a \nsearch-and-rescue flight that had become a combat mission.\n\nOur flight consisted of the civilian passenger helicopter and two \nM24 Soviet attack helicopters in the Azerbaijani service, nicknamed \nflying crocodiles for their armour. Our party was in the second \ncrocodile. The civilian helicopter's job was to land in the mountains \nand pick up bodies at sites of the mass killings. The attack helicopters \nwere there to give covering fire if necessary.\n\nThe operation showed a striking sign of the disintegration of the Soviet \narmed forces because our pilot was a Russian officer. An Azerbaijani \nofficial told us that there were now five former Soviet military \nhelicopters -and their pilots- fighting for Azerbaijan. \"They have \nsigned contracts to fly for us,\" he said. The helicopter we engaged \nin combat was most probably flown by a brother-officer of our Russian \npilot, but fighting for the Armenians.\n\nWe had taken off just before 5pm on Saturday from Agdam airfield, an \nheated for the Armenian-controlled mountains of Karabakh, a sheer \nwhite wall in the distance. The civilian helicopter picked up four \ncorpses, and it was during this and a previous mission that an \nAzerbaijani cameraman filmed the several the several dozen bodies \non the hillsides. We then took off again in a hurry and speed back \ntowards Azerbaijani lines. Azerbaijani gunners on the last hill before \nthe plain - and safety - gazed up at us as we passed.\n\nBack at the airfield in Agdam, we took a look the bodies the \ncivilian helicopter had picked up. Two old men a small girl were \ncovered with blood, their limbs contorted by the cold and rigor \nmortis. They had been shot.\n\nWhat did our Russian pilot think of the tragedy, our close shave, \nand the war in Nagorno-Karabakh? He gave us CHEERFUL GRIN, POLITELY \nDECLINED TO ANSWER QUES TIONS, AND MARCHED OFF TO HIS DINNER.\n\nSerdar Argic", "\nGlad to see Griffin is spending his time on engineering rather than on\nritual purification of the language. Pity he got stuck with the turkey\nrather than one of the sensible options.", "\n\n\t\n\n\tHomeland? First Nagarno-Karabagh was Armenians homeland today\n\tFizuli, Lacin and several villages (in Azerbadjan)\n\tare their homeland. Can't you see the\n\tthe \"Great Armenia\" dream in this? With facist methods like\n\tkilling, raping and bombing villages. The last move was the \n\tblast of a truck with 60 kurdish refugees, trying to\n\tescape the from Lacin, a city that was \"given\" to the Kurds\n\tby the Armenians. \n\n\n\n\tDon't speak about things you don't know: 8 American Cargo planes\n\twere heading to Armenia. When the Turkish authorities\n\tannounced that they were going to search these cargo \n\tplanes 3 of these planes returned to it's base in Germany.\n\t5 of these planes were searched in Turkey. The content of\n\tof the other 3 planes? Not hard to guess, is it? It was sure not\n\thumanitarian aid.....\n\n\tSearch Turkish planes? You don't know what you are talking about.\n\tTurkey's government has announced that it's giving weapons\n\tto Azerbadjan since Armenia started to attack Azerbadjan\n\tit self, not the Karabag province. So why search a plane for weapons\n\tsince it's content is announced to be weapons? \n\n\n\n\n", "\n\n\nTell me, 'kmagnacca', were you high on 'Arromdian of ASALA/SDPA/ARF'\nwhen you wrote that? Humane behavior and tolerance of Turks was a\nlegend even 500 years ago when they accepted tens of thousands of \nJews from Spain who were fleeing from the Spanish Inquisition. Again, \nmany Jewish families escaping from Nazi Armenians and Hitler's Nazi \nGermany took refugee in Turkiye during the 1940's. Turkish people\nhave unselfishly given home, protection, and freedom to the Jews over \nthe centuries, including to thousands and thousands of them during \nthe Second World War. Get a life or a cup of Turkish coffee. \n\n\"History of the Jews in the Islamic Countries,\" chapters in Parts I and II,\nJarusalem, Zalman Shazar Center for Jewish History, 1986. \n\nBaron, Salo W., \"A Social and Religious History of the Jews,\" New York,\nColumbia University Press, Vols. III, V, XVIII.\n\nBenardete, Mair Jose, \"Hispanic Culture and Character of the Sephardic\nJews,\" New York, Sepher-Hermon Press, 2nd corrected edition, 1982 (original\npublication 1953).\n\nLewis, Bernard, eds., \"Christians and Jews in the Ottoman Empire,\" New York,\nHolmes & Meier, 1982, Vol. I, The Central Lands.\n\n\"La Turquie dan les Archives des Grand Orient de France: les loges ...,\"\nin Jean-Louis Bacque-Graumont and Paul Dumont, eds., Economie et Societes\ndans L'Empire Ottoman, Paris, Centre National De La Reserche Scientifique,\n1983.\n\nInalcik, Halil, \"Turkish-Jewish Relations in the Ottoman Empire,\" 1982.\n\nSevilla-Sharon, Moshe, \"Turkiye Yahudileri, Tarihsel Bakis,\" Jerusalem, The\nHebrew University, 1982.\n\nSource: John Dewey: \"The New Republic,\" Vol. 40, Nov. 12, 1928, pp. 268-9.\n\n\"Happy the minority [Jews] which has had no Christian nation to protect it.\n And one recalls that the Jews took up their abode in 'fanatic' Turkey\n when they were expelled from Europe, especially Spain, by Saintly Christians,\n and they have lived here for centuries in at least as much tranquility and\n liberty as their fellow Turkish subjects, all being exposed alike to the\n rapacity of their common rulers. To one brought up, as most Americans have \n been, in the Gladstonian and foreign-missionary tradition, the condition of \n the Jews in Turkey is almost a mathematical demonstration that religious\n differences have had an influence in the tragedy of Turkey only as they\n were combined with aspirations for a political separation which every \n nation in the world would have treated as treasonable. One readily \n reaches the conclusion that the Jews in Turkey were fortunate...\" \n\nHe also stated that:\n\n\"they [Armenians] traitorously turned Turkish cities over to the Russian \n invader; that they boasted of having raised an army of one hundred and\n fifty thousand men to fight a civil war, and that they burned at least\n a hundred Turkish villages and exterminated their population.\"\n\n\n TURKEY AND THE HOLOCAUST\n\nAn interview with Stanford J. Shaw (History), who recently\ncompleted two books: The Jews of the Ottoman Empire and the\nTurkish Republic, and Turkey and the Holocaust: Turkey's Role in\nRescuing Turkish and European Jewry from Nazi Persecution,\n1933-45. Shaw chairs the undergraduate interdepartmental degree\nprogram in Near Eastern Studies and has organized the Program for\nthe Study of Ottoman and Turkish Jewry. He is affiliated with the\nG. E. von Grunebaum Center for Near Eastern Studies.\n\nEditor: How did you come to write these two books on Turkey and\nEuropean and Turkish Jews?\n\nShaw: Basically, I'm an Ottoman historian, but I'm also Jewish.\nI've spent twenty-five years studying Ottoman history, and as\ntime went along, whenever I found materials on the Ottoman Jews,\nI collected them. But I never did anything with them until a\ncouple of years ago, when I suddenly realized that 1992 was the\n500th anniversary of the Jews being expelled from Spain and\ncoming to Turkey. Then the Sephardic Temple down on Wilshire\nAvenue invited me to give a series of three lectures on Ottoman\nJewry. These lectures were greatly appreciated, and I became\nmotivated to undertake further research to develop a book, The\nJews of the Ottoman Empire and the Turkish) Republic. This book\nis quite different from the works of most Jewish historians, who\ntend to look at the Jews in any country more from the viewpoint\nof the Jews and the Jewish community, and rely mainly on Jewish\nsources. I view my subject as an Ottoman historian, and I\napproach the Jews of the Ottoman Empire largely from the point of\nview of Ottoman society, using largely Ottoman sources. After I\nfinished this book and sent it to the press, I came across\nadditional documents relating to Turkish Jews during World War\nII. In the completed book, I had said that Turkey had done a good\ndeal to rescue the Jews during World War II, but I did not\nactually have many details. Then I found a batch of documents in\nthe Foreign Ministry archive relating to actions taken by Turkish\ndiplomats to help the Jews before and during the Holocaust. It\nwas too late to add this new information to the book in press, so\nI decided to write a second book. I conducted further research,\nmainly in the archives of the Foreign Ministry in Ankara and the\nTurkish Embassy and Consulate in Paris. The result was the second\nbook, Turkey and the Holocaust, which details how Turkey helped\nrescue Jews from the Nazis.\n\n- How exactly did they do this?\n\nThe story takes place over a number of years. The book presents\nthe material in three parts, first of which deals with the period\nbefore the Holocaust. When the Nazis came to power in Germany in\n1933, they immediately started dismissing Jews and anti-Nazi\nGermans from universities, hospitals, scientific institutes, and\nthe like. Turkey at that moment was just beginning the process of\nreforming its universities, and it saw in these Jews, who were\nbeing fired from their positions in Germany, a good source of new\ntalent to help modernize the Turkish universities. Within three\nmonths after the Nazis started dismissing these Jews, Turkey\narranged to take many of them in. They were brought to Turkey and\nwere given appointments as professors in the Turkish\nuniversities, as heads of scientific institutes, and as medical\npersonnel in hospitals. About 300 to 500 major Jewish professors\ncame to Turkey in the 1930s. Ernst Reuter, a German political\nscientist, spent the war years teaching political science in\nTurkey. After World War II, he was mayor of Berlin during the\nBerlin Airlift. Fritz Neimark, a major German Jewish economist,\ncame to Turkey and helped establish a modern school of economics\nin Istanbul. A man named Reichenbach, who was rescued from the\nNazis by Turkey and spent the war years in Turkey, eventually\ncame to UCLA, where he became a professor of philosophy. Other\nGerman Jewish emigres engaged in cultural activities in Turkey.\nOne such was Karl Ebert, who had been a leading theatrical\nproducer in Berlin until he was expelled by the Nazis. He went to\nTurkey, where he organized the Turkish National Theater and the\nTurkish National Opera Company in Ankara, with the help of Paul\nHindemuth. So the first section of the book covers this first\nphase, when Jews were being persecuted in Germany and rescued by\nTurkey. Oddly enough, the German emigres, when they were in\nTurkey, did not seem to think too badly of Germany. They regarded\nthemselves more as Germans than Jews, and they did not join in\nthe anti-Nazi activities of the local Turkish Jewish community. I\neven found letters from the Nazi representatives to Turkey\npraising these German Jewish refugees for their work in promoting\nthe idea of German culture. Even though these people had been\npersecuted by the Nazis and rescued by the Turks, they shared the\nNazis' feelings of Aryan racial superiority over the Turks. The\nsecond part of the book deals with the Holocaust, which began in\n1940 when the Nazis occupied France. In Europe at that time, and\nespecially in France, there were about 20,000 Turkish Jews. They\nhad migrated to Europe for various reasons from about the turn of\nthe century onward. Most of them had settled in Europe during the\nTurkish war for independence after World War I, when Greece was\nthreatening to overrun Turkey. The Greeks had persecuted the Jews\nthroughout the nineteenth century, and the Jews feared what might\nhappen to them if the Greeks took over in Turkey. Many Jews fled\nto France during the 1920s and 1930s. Many also abandoned their\nTurkish citizenship and became French citizens. Suddenly the\nNazis invaded France in 1940 and started introducing all sorts of\nanti-Jewish laws. The Turkish Jews soon found that it was not\nworth very much to be a French Jew, but that it was worth a lot\nto be a Turkish Jew.\n\n- How so?\n\nTurkey remained neutral through most of World War II. It retained\nits embassies and consulates in all the Nazi-occupied countries\nuntil it finally entered the war on the side of the Allies at the\nend of 1944. During the war, therefore, Turkey was in a position\nto defend its citizens against anti-Jewish measures, and the\nactions that Turkish diplomats took form the second chapter of\nthe book. Turkish diplomats who were stationed in France in\nparticular intervened to protect Jews of Turkish citizenship from\nthe Nazis. For those Turkish Jews who had retained their Turkish\ncitizenship, there was generally no problem. If they were\narrested and sent to a concentration camp, the Turkish diplomats\nwould communicate with the commanders of the camp and other\nofficials and say in effect: \"These people are Turkish citizens.\nYou can't do this to them.\" And the Turkish Jews would be\nreleased. If their businesses were confiscated, the Turkish\ndiplomats would protest and the businesses would be restored.\n\nThe Nazis in general wanted to keep the friendship of Turkey.\nThey hoped to be able to use Turkey as a gateway for an invasion\nof the Middle East, and they also wanted to obtain chromium and\nmanganese from Turkey. In order to keep Turkish friendship, they\nusually accepted these interventions on behalf of Turkish Jews.\nThe Turkish diplomats sometimes went to the concentration camps\nto secure the release of Turkish Jews. At times they even boarded\ntrains hauling Turkish Jews to Auschwitz for extermination and\nsucceeded in getting them off the train. Most of the foreign Jews\nwere sent to a concentration camp at a place called Drancy in\nParis, and that's where most of the intercession by Turkish\nconsuls took place.\n\nThe greater problem came with the Turkish Jews who had abandoned\ntheir Turkish citizenship and had become French citizens. The\nconsuls couldn't declare that these people were Turkish citizens\nbecause they were not. My book includes photographs of Jews\nlining up in front of the Turkish consulate, either to get\npassports to return to Turkey or to get a restoration of their\nTurkish citizenship. This was a bureaucratic matter, so\nprocessing the application would take some time. In the meantime\nit was a real emergency, because the Nazis would arrest Jews on\nthe streets for almost nothing. The Nazis would even arrest them\nif they had radios or telephones in their apartments, because\nradios and telephones were forbidden to Jews. To take care of\nthese former Turkish Jews, the Turkish diplomats invented a\ndocument called gayri muntazem vatandash, or \"irregular fellow\ncitizen.\" The document said in effect \"This person is a former\nTurkish citizen who has applied for the restoration of his\nTurkish citizenship. In the meantime we would appreciate it if\nyou would treat him as if he were a Turkish citizen.\" The\ndiplomats wrote the document in Turkish and put their seals on\nit. Since the Nazis could not read Turkish, on the whole they\naccepted these papers as certificates of citizenship. By this\nmeans, the Turkish diplomats were able to rescue many Jews who\nhad relinquished their Turkish citizenship.\n\nActually the Nazis were of two minds about the Turkish defense of\nJews. On the one hand the Nazi Foreign Ministry, which wanted to\nretain the friendship of Turkey, was in favor of accepting these\ninterventions. On the other hand, Himmler and Eichmann wanted all\nJews exterminated. At times Himmler and Eichmann were able to\nprevail and some of the Turkish Jews were sent off to Auschwitz\nbefore the Turkish consuls could do anything.\n\n- Do you have statistics on how many Turkish Jews were rescued?\n\nThere were about 20,000 Turkish Jews in Europe before world War\nII, about 10,000 of whom were living in France. Most of the\ninformation in this section of the book relates to the situation\nin France. I have published the letters that the Turkish consuls\nsent to the Nazi officials and the letters that came back in\nreply. Generally the Nazis said that if the Turkish consul would\npresent documents certifying that arrested individuals are\nTurkish citizens, and promise to send them out of France, the\nNazis would release them from the concentration camp. The Turkish\nconsuls also organized special trains to take Turkish Jews from\nNazi-occupied territory back to Turkey. These trains ran\nregularly in 1943 and 1944. The Nazis gave the Turkish Jews visas\nso they could pass out of Nazi territory, but the trains were\noften held up by the Nazi-influenced governments of Eastern\nEurope - Croatia, Serbia, and Bulgaria - because these\ngovernments really didn't want the Jews to escape. As a result of\nthe Turkish consuls' efforts, about 3,000 to 4,000 of the Turkish\nJews in France were saved. Another 3,000 were sent off to\nAuschwitz, where most of them died. The remaining 3,000 either\nescaped across the border into Spain or fled to the area of\nsouthern France occupied by the Italians, who treated Jews much\nbetter than the Nazis did. At the end of 1943, however, Italy\nfell out of the war, and that was the end for those Jews as well.\nIncidentally, the Turkish diplomats in Nazi-occupied Greece also\nworked to rescue Jews in that country.\n\n- The second part of your book then deals with Turkish diplomats\nacting to rescue Jews of Turkish citizenship or Turkish origin\nfrom Nazi persecution.\n\nYes, and there is an aside I might add here: In their\ninterventions on behalf of Turkish Jews, the Turks cited their\ntreaty with Germany which stated that Turkish citizens in German\nterritory would be treated the same as German citizens in Turkey.\nOn that basis the Turks maintained that the Nazis could not\ndiscriminate against Turkish citizens who are Jews. The Nazis\nclaimed (and the Vichy government agreed) that they were not\ndiscriminating because they were treating all Jews equally.\nTurkey protested, saying, \"You are dividing our citizens\naccording to religion, but the Turkish constitution requires that\nall citizens be treated equally, regardless of religion.\nTherefore, you cannot single out Turkish Jews.\" American consuls\nin Paris, by contrast, accepted the Nazi argument and told\nAmerican Jews who were being persecuted by the Nazis that they\ncouldn't do anything about it, because the American Jews were\nbeing treated the same as other Jews. The third part of the book\ntakes place in Turkey, which was the principal center during the\nHolocaust for activities aimed at the rescue of Eastern European\nJews. The kwish Agency, an organization established by Jews in\nPalestine to help resettle Jews to Palestine, set up an office in\nIstanbul in 1940 under the leadership of Chaim Barlas. Other\nJewish organizations in Palestine, especially the kibbutzes, also\nsent representatives to Istanbul to set up headquarters. These\ngroups first tried to contact Jews in Eastern Europe to find out\nwhat was happening. Today we know about the Holocaust, but at\nthat time people didn't know what was going on. They didn't\nimagine the Nazis could do the things they were doing. And so the\nfirst step was to get information, and the Turkish government let\nthem use the Turkish mails to send letters to their relatives and\nfriends in Eastern Europe. The Jewish organizations found out\nwhat was happening when they received replies. Later on when the\nNazis began to intercept such letters, the Jews received\nassistance also from the Vatican nuncio, Angelo Roncali, who\nserved as the Vatican representative in Istanbul from 1935 to\n1944 and later became Pope John XXIII. As the Vatican\nrepresentative during the war, he used the facilities of the\nCatholic Church to supplement what the Turkish government was\ndoing to assist Jewish agencies in contacting Jews in Eastern\nEurope. With the cooperation of the Turkish government, these\nagencies then sent hard currency, food, clothing, and even\nrailroad and steamship tickets to Jews in Czechoslovakia,\nBulgaria, Romania, and Hungary. They weren't able to help much in\nPoland because by then the Nazis had wiped out almost all the\nPolish Jews. Whenever possible the rescue agencies arranged for\nthe Jews to get out of Eastern Europe either by train through the\nso called Orient Express route to Istanbul, or by boat through\nthe Black Sea to Istanbul.\n\nTurkey was not eager for all these refugees to remain within its\nborders during the war, because it was being blockaded and was\nsuffering terrible shortages of food and clothing. The\ngovernment, therefore, facilitated the movement of the\nnon-Turkish Jewish refugees from Turkey to Palestine, either by\nthe Taurus Express Railroad through the mountains to Syria and\nPalestine, or by small boats across the eastern Mediterranean\nfrom southern Turkey to Palestine. These efforts were bitterly\nopposed not only by the Nazis, but also by the British, who did\nnot want any more Jewish immigration to Palestine because they\nfeared it would hurt their relations with the Arabs. The British\nconstantly pressured the Turkish government to stop this traffic\nand send those Jews back. In a few cases the Turkish government,\nyielding to British pressure, did send the boats back. For\nexample, in one incident, the steamship Struma, with some 700\nJewish refugees from Romania, was sent back by the Turkish\ngovernment as a result of the intervention of the British\nambassador. When that ship was sunk by a Soviet submarine, all\nwere lost except one person. Nevertheless, all told, the Turkish\ngovernment allowed no fewer than 100,000 Eastern European Jews to\npass through Turkish territory and move on to Palestine during\nthe Second World War. The Turkish authorities also provided these\nrefugees with facilities and money, and gave them permission to\nsend money and food out of the country.\n\n- Many of these Jews who passed through Turkey may still be\nliving in Israel.\n\nYes, and their children. But let's return for a moment to the\nfirst group, the Turkish Jews who came from Europe. They did not\ngo on to Palestine; they stayed in Turkey. It was the\nnon-Turkish, Eastern European Jews who passed through Turkey en\nroute to Palestine. Their story is very interesting.\n\n- And you have rescued it from obscurity.\n\nMany studies have been made of the Holocaust, but most of them do\nnot focus on the Eastern European or Middle Eastern Jews. Most of\nthe scholarship has centered on the Western European Jews, of\nwhom 6 million were massacred by the Nazis. My study deals with a\nmuch smaller number of people. I have tried to round out the\npicture, and I hope my book will persuade other scholars to\nundertake further investigations in the history of Eastern Jews.\n\nWhen it comes to numbers, the German Jews were also relatively\nsmall in number. Most of the millions slain were Polish Jews. The\nrescue of 100,000 Eastern European Jews may not seem so\nsignificant compared with the total of 6 million who were\nmurdered, but it meant a lot to those who were saved.\n\nAbout three-fourths of the book consists of documents -\ntranslations of many documents. They are included because the\nstory is not well known. Not only are people in the West unaware\nof the courageous actions of the Turkish diplomats; even the\npeople of Turkey did not know the story. I felt that they would\nnot fully understand this remarkable achievement unless they\ncould see the documents.\n\n- What languages are used in the documents?\n\nMost of them are in Turkish or French; some are in Hebrew. There\nis a great deal of material in Hebrew about the organization of\nthe boats going to Palestine, the passengers, and so on, but I\ndid not go into those details extensively. I describe mostly what\nTurkey did, so most of my documents are in Turkish or French. A\nfew documents are in English. The Jewish groups in Istanbul did\nnot necessarily cooperate with one another to rescue Jews; in\nfact, they often fought with one another. They took turns trying\nto get the Turkish government to deport rival groups. For\nexample, some of the kibbutz groups felt that the Jewish Agency\nwas run by Western European Jews who were interested only in\nhelping Western European Jews. Finally, in 1944, President\nRoosevelt sent a personal representative, Ira Hirschman, who had\nbeen an executive of Bloomingdale's department store in New York\nCity, and Hirschman managed to reconcile their differences. The\ndocuments related to his mission are in English.\n\nI also obtained many documents from Serge Klarsfeld, a Holocaust\nhistorian in France, who mainly worked on the French Jews. (His\nfather was killed by the Nazis.) He gave me materials he had\ngathered in the German archives on the Turkish Jews, so I didn't\npersonally consult the German archives. I believe that much more\ncan be learned from the German archives, and I hope someone\nsomeday will make the effort.\n\n- This new book fits in well with your teaching, doesn't it?\n\nRight. I'm giving a course on the history of the Jews of the\nOttoman Empire. I first gave the course two years ago. In\naddition to research, writing, and teaching, I've been actively\ninvolved in the commemoration of the 500th anniversary of the\ncoming of the Jews to the Ottoman Empire. Among other things, I\nhelped organize a large international conference on the subject\nwhich was held in Istanbul in 1992.\n\n- Now that your books are finished and the conference has taken\nplace, what do you plan to do next?\n\nI'm working on two new books. One is a history of the Turkish War\nfor Independence, which took place after World War I, during the\nyears 1918 to 1923. The Turks warded off the efforts of the\nvictorious European powers to occupy Turkey and end its\nindependence. The second book is a study of Sultan Abdul Hamid\nII, the last major sultan, who ruled from 1876 to 1909. He was an\nimportant modernizer in his own way, although he also suppressed\nall sorts of political movements.\n\nStanford J. Shaw received a B.A. in History and an M.A. in\nBritish History. He then shifted to Near Eastern History, earning\na second M.A. and a Ph.D. at Princeton. As a doctoral candidate\nat Princeton, he spent two years abroad, studying at the School\nof Oriental and African Studies, University of London; the\nUniversity of Cairo, the American University at Cairo, and the\nUniversity of Istanbul. He taught at Harvard before coming to\nUCLA in 1966. His postdoctoral research has been supported by the\nJohn Simon Guggenheim Foundation, the American Research Institute\nin Turkey, the Social Science Research Council, the National\nEndowment for the Humanities, the Fulbright Program, and ISOP. He\nhas received honorary degrees from Harvard University and\nBosporus University, Bebek, Istanbul, Turkey, and medals of honor\nfor lifetime contributions to the fields of Islamic and Turkish\nstudies from the Center for Research in Islamic History, Art, and\nCulture in Istanbul and from the American Friends of Turkey in\nWashington, D.C. In addition to undertaking many professional\nservice activities and public lectures in both the United States\nand Turkey, Shaw has also produced eight books and one edited\nvolume. His History of the Ottoman Empire and Modem Turkey (2\nvols.) has been published in many editions (six editions or\nreprints from 1977-1991), and translated into Turkish (1983,\n1991) and French (1984). His book The Jews of the Ottoman Empire\nand the Turkish Republic (MacMillan, London, and New York\nUniversity Press, 1992) will be published in Turkish translation\nby the Turkish Historical Society, Istanbul. His Turkey and the\nHolocaust: Turkey's Role in Rescuing Turkish and European Jewry\nfrom Nazi Persecution, 1933-1945 will be published by Macmillan\nPublishers, London, and New York University Press in 1993. A\npamphlet summarizing the book was published in Ankara, Turkey, in\n1992.\n\nSerdar Argic", "The Orders for the Turkish Extermination of the Armenians #17\n To the children of genocide: \"Send them away into the Desert\"\n\nThis is part of a continuing series of articles containing official Turkish \nwartime (WW1) governmental telegrams, in translation, entailing the orders \nfor the extermination of the Armenian people in Turkey. Generally, these\ntelegrams were issued by the Turkish Minister of the Interior, Talaat Pasha,\nfor example, we have the following set regarding children:\n\n\t\"To the Government of Aleppo.\n\n\t November 5, 1915. We are informed that the little ones belonging to\n\t the Armenians from Sivas, Mamuret-ul-Aziz, Diarbekir and Erzeroum\n\t [hundreds of km distance from Aleppo] are adopted by certain Moslem\n\t families and received as servants when they are left alone through\n\t the death of their parents. We inform you that you are to collect\n\t all such children in your province and send them to the places of\n\t deportation, and also to give the necessary orders regarding this to\n\t the people.\n\n\t\t\t\tMinister of the Interior,\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\tTalaat\" [1]\n\n\t\"To the Government of Aleppo.\n\n\t September 21, 1915. There is no need for an orphanage. It is not the\n\t time to give way to sentiment and feed the orphans, prolonging their\n\t lives. Send them away to the desert and inform us.\n\n\t\t\t\tMinister of the Interior,\n\t\t\t\t\t\tTalaat\" [2]\n\n\t\"To the General Committee for settling and deportees.\n\n\t November 26, 1915. There were more than four hundred children in the\n\t orphanage. They will be added to the caravans and sent to their\n\t places of exile.\n\n\t \t\t\t\tAbdullahad Nuri. [3]\n\n\n\t\"To the Government of Aleppo.\n\n\t January 15, 1916. We hear that certain orphanages which have been\n\t opened receive also the children of the Armenians. Whether this is\n\t done through the ignorance of our real purpose, or through contempt\n\t of it, the Government will regard the feeding of such children or\n\t any attempt to prolong their lives as an act entirely opposed to it\n\t purpose, since it considers the survival of these children as\n\t detrimental. I recommend that such children shall not be received\n\t into the orphanages, and no attempts are to be made to establish\n\t special orphanages for them.\n\n\t\t\t\tMinister of the Interior,\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\tTalaat.\" [4]\n\n\t\"To the Government of Aleppo.\n\n\n\t Collect and keep only those orphans who cannot remember the tortures\n\t to which their parents have been subjected. Send the rest away with\n\t the caravans.\n\n\t\t\t\tMinister of the Interior,\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\tTalaat\" [5]\n\n\t\"From the Ministry of the Interior to the Government of Aleppo.\n\n\t At a time when there are thousands of Moslem refugees and the widows\n\t of Shekid [fallen soldiers] are in need of food and protection, it is\n\t not expedient to incur extra expenses by feeding the children left by\n\t Armenians, who will serve no purpose except that of giving trouble\n\t in the future. It is necessary that these children should be turned\n\t out of your vilayet and sent with the caravans to the place of\n\t deportation. Those that have been kept till now are also to be sent\n\t away, in compliance with our previous orders, to Sivas.\n\n\t\t\t\tMinister of the Interior,\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\tTalaat\" [6]\n\nIn 1926, Halide Edip (a pioneer Turkish nationalist) wrote in her memoirs\nabout a conversation with Talaat Pasha, verifying and \"rationalizing\" this\nultra-national fascist anti-Armenian mentality, the following:\n\n\t\"I have the conviction that as long as a nation does the best for\n\t its own interest, and succeeds, the world admires it and thinks\n\t it moral. I am ready to die for what I have done, and I know I\n\t shall die for it.\" [7]\n\n\nThese telegrams were entered as unquestioned evidence during the 1923 trial of\nTalaat Pasha's, assassin, Soghomon Tehlerian. The Turkish government never\nquestioned these \"death march orders\" until 1986, during a time when the world\nwas again reminded of the genocide of the Armenians.\n\nFor reasons known to those who study the psychology of genocide denial, the\nTurkish government and their supporters in crime deny that such orders were\never issued, and further claim that these telegrams were forgeries based on a\nstudy by S. Orel and S. Yuca of the Turkish Historical Society.\n\nIf one were to examine the sample \"authentic text\" provided in the Turkish \nHistorical Society study and use their same forgery test on that sample, it \ntoo would be a forgery!. In fact, if any of the tests delineated by the \nTurkish Historical Society are performed an any piece of Ottoman Turkish or \nPersian/Arabic script, one finds that anything handwritten in such language is\na forgery. \n\nToday, the body of Talaat Pasha lies in a tomb on Liberty Hill, Istanbul,\nTurkey, just next to the Yildiz University campus. The body of this genocide \narchitect was returned to Turkey from Germany during WW2 when Turkey was in a \nheightened state of proto-fascism. Recently, this monument has served as a\nfocal point for anti-Armenianism in Turkey.\n\nThis monument represents the epitome of the Turkish government's pathological\ndenial of a clear historical event and is an insult to a people whose only\ncrime was to be born Armenian.\n\n\t\t\t- - - references - - -\n\n[1] _The Memoirs of Naim Bey_, Aram Andonian, 1919, pages 59-60\n\n[2] ibid, page 60\n\n[3] ibid, page 60\n\n[4] ibid, page 61\n\n[5] ibid, page 61\n\n[6] ibid, page 62\n\n[7] _Memoirs of Halide Edip_, Halide Edip, The Century Press, New York (and\n London), 1926, page 387\n\n", "\n\nAnd the best evidence you can find is second hand hearsay from\nan unnamed source? You may indeed be confusing *some* Muslims \nwith Nazi Armenians. Altogether 30,000 Nazi Armenians served in \nvarious units in the German Wehrmacht, according to Ara J. Berkian. \n14,000 in predominantly Armenian army units, 6,000 in German army \nunits, 8,000 in various working units and 2,000 in the Waffen-SS.[1]\n\nA number of these Nazi Armenians were volunteers from France,\nGreece, Rumania and Bulgaria who had chosen to commit\nthemselves to the German war effort. Derounian says that\n\n\"Dashnag Armenians from France bore the mark 'Legion \nArmenienne.'\"[2]\n\nThat Nazi Armenians like Dro 'the Butcher' and Nezhdeh sided\nwith the Germans probably had an impact on the decision of\nArmenians who overwhelmingly opted for armed service.\n\n[1] Enno Meyer, A. J. Berkian, 'Zwischen Rhein und Arax, 900\n Jahre Deutsch-Armenische beziehungen,' (Heinz Holzberg\n Verlag-Oldenburg 1988), pp. 118/119. \n[2] John Roy Carlson (Arthur Derounian), in 'The Armenian \n Displaced Persons,' ibid., p. 19.\n\nIn fall 1942, the Armenian infantry battalions 808 and 809 were formed,\nto be followed by battalions 810, 812 and 813 in spring 1943. In the \nsecond half of 1943 infantry battalions 814, 815 and 816 were created.\nThese battalions together with other indigenous Caucasian units were\nattached to the infantry division 162. Also attached to ID 162 were\nthe field battalions II/9, I/125 and I/198 which were formed between\nMay 1942 and May 1943. Altogether twelve Armenian battalions served the\nNazi army, if battalion II/73, which was not employed at any time, is to be\nincluded.[1] Most battalions were commanded by Nazi Armenian officers.\nArmenians wore German uniforms with an armband in the Dashnag colours \nred-blue-orange and the inscription 'Armenien.'\n\n[1] Joachim Hoffmann, 'Dies Ostlegionen 1941-1943, Turkotataren, \n Kaukasier und Wolgafinned im deutschen Heer,' (Verlag Rombach\n Freiburg 1976), p. 172.\n\nWhile having collaborated with the Nazis against Stalin during the\nSecond World War, Nazi Armenians changed their policy after Hitler's\ndefeat. They now backed Stalin's claims on Eastern Turkish provinces,\nhoping that these would be annexed to Soviet Armenia and their Muslim \npopulation would be exterminated. Stalin played on Armenian national\nsentiments to enlist the support of Armenians in the USSR and America\nfor his imperial ambitions.[1] Stalin's ultimatum to the Turkish\ngovernment led Truman to formulate his famous Doctrine.\n\n[1] Walter Kolarz, 'Religion in the Soviet Union,' (London, Macmillan &\n Co Ltd; New York, St Martin's Press 1961), pp. 160-164.\n\nSerdar Argic", "Turkish president Turgur Ozal has passed away today after a heart attack in Ankara at 11:00 am GMT .\nMr. Ozal was 66 years old.", "I see that our retarded translator, David, is still writing things that\ndon't make sense. Hey David I can see where you are.. May be one day,\nWe will have the chance to talk deeply about that freedom of speach of\nyours.. And you now, killing or torture, these things are only easy\nways out.. I have different plans for you and all empty headeds like \nyou...\n\nLets get serious, DAVE, don't ever write bad things about Turkish people\nor especially Cyprus.. If I hear a word from you again that I consider\nto be a curse to my people I will retalliate...\n\nMuccccukkk..\nTIMUCIN.\n", "\n \n\nNo wonder you clown are in such a mess. Let's take Sarkis Atamian's (an \nArmenian Dashnak sociolog) book, \"The Armenian Community\", pages 97 and \n105. Atamian quotes:\n\n \"... the immediate question concerned itself with the organization and\n tactics of revolution. The liberation of Armenia, the immediate aim of\n the Party, was to be attained by:\n\n 1. Oral and written propaganda.\n 2. Terrorism - both as punishment against the enemy and as a measure\n of self defense. \n 3. The creation of an avant-garde of revolutionary groups to be\n equipped and prepared for action when other nations were prepared\n for a general uprising.\n 4. The organization of larger committees to be in constant contact with\n each other and subject to a central body.\n 5. Organization of units of guerilla fighters.\"\n\nNow, on page 105, Atamian's book quotes of Armenian constitution:\n\n \"... If the means was revolution, how was the revolution to be attained?\n By:\n\n 1. Propaganda \n 2. Preparation of combat units and their indoctrination\n 3. Encouragement of the revolutionary morale of the people\n 4. The arming of the people\n 5. Organization of revolutionary committees\n 6. Espionage throughout the country and the exchange of information with\n the official bodies and journals\n 7. Organization of financial zones for public collection \n 8. 'Fighting and using' the weapon of the terror on corrupt government\n officers, spies, traitors, grafters, and all sorts of oppressors\n 9. Defense of the people against attacks from the brigandry\n 10. Building of roads for the transport of arms\n 11. Wrecking and looting of governmental institutions.\"\n\nMany of the recent Armenian terrorist acts against the Turkish people \nwere committed by the brainwashed members of the \"Tzeghagron\", namely, \n\"race-worshipers\" of the Dashnag Youth Organization. Ironically, again, \nTzeghagron was set up by an undisputed Armenian Nazi, Karekin Nejdeh,\nin 1941 (see Atamian, loc cit, page 389).\n\nSerdar Argic", "DEPOSITION of VITALY NIKOLAYEVICH DANIELIAN [1]\n\n\n Born 1972\n Attended 9th Grade\n Middle School No. 17\n\n Resident at Building 4/2, Apartment 25\n Microdistrict No. 3\n Sumgait [Azerbaijan]\n\nReally, people in town didn't know what was happening on February 27. I came \nhome from school at 12 o'clock, being excused to leave before the last period \nin order to go to Baku. When we left, everything in town was fine. Life was \nthe same as usual, a few groups of people were discussing things, soccer and \nother things. Then we got on the Sumgait bus bound for Baku for my first \ncousin's birthday, my father, my mother, and I. We spent the day in Baku, and \non the 28th, somewhere around 6:00 p.m., we got on the bus for home, figuring \nthat I'd have enough time to do my homework for the next day.\n\nWhen we were entering town, near the 12-story high-rises, our bus was stopped \nby a very large crowd. The crowd demanded that the Armenians get off the bus. \nThe driver says that there are no Armenians on board; then everyone on the bus\nbegins to shout that there are no Armenians on board. The group comes up to \nthe doors of the bus and has people get out one by one, not checking \npassports, just going by the way people look. We get off the bus, but are not \ntaken for Armenians.\n\nWe set out in the direction of home. At first we were going to go into an old \nbuilding where we knew there'd be a place to hide, but the whole road was \npacked with groups of people, all the way from Block 41 to the 8th \nMicrodistrict. These groups were emptying people's pockets and checking\npassports. People who didn't have passports with them were beaten as well.\nThen we decided to go home instead. Near the 12-story high-rises I saw burning\ncars and a great many people standing around the driveways, yelling. \"Death to\nthe Armenians\" was written on the cars.\n\nWhen we came into the courtyard--we live in an L-shaped building--it was still\nquiet. We went on upstairs, but didn't turn on any lights. We tried to call \nBaku to warn our relatives, who were due to arrive on Wednesday, not to come. \nThen there was a knock at the door. It was our neighbors, who advised us to \ncome down to stay at their place. We went down to their place, and they led us\nto the basement. They live on the first floor and have a basement which you \nenter across the balcony. We sat in the basement while an Armenian woman was \nbeaten--she ran away naked. Our neighbors' daughter said that that's right, \nthat's what the Armenians deserve, because in Stepanakert, allegedly, people \nwere being killed, 11 girls from Agdam had been raped. We didn't stay very \nlong in the basement. We tried to support one another as best we could, \nlooking out the small window with the iron grating. Papa watched and said \nthings now and then. He said that there was a fire near Building 5, probably a\ncar on fire. Then one of the groups approached our driveway and demanded that \nthey be shown the apartments where Armenians lived. The neighbors said that \nthere weren't any Armenians here, and the group set out for the other wing of \nthe building. They appeared from the 5/2 side of the building, where, I later \nfound out, a woman had been murdered. The woman who ran away naked died. Yuri\nAvakian was killed, too.\n\nWhen the crowd left, the neighbors said that it was all over and we could go \nhome. We went back up to our place and again didn't turn on the light. We \nstarted to gather up our things in order to leave Sumgait for a while. We\ntried to call a relative who lived in Sumgait, but there was no answer. We\ndecided she had already left.\n\nWe sat at home. The phone rang, and the caller asked to speak with my\nfather. I called him to the phone. It was Jeykhun Mamedov, from my father's\nwork brigade. He said he was disgusted by what was happening in our\ntown. He asked for our address and promised to get a car and help us get\nout of the city. To be quite honest, Papa didn't want to give him our address,\nbut my mother got on the phone and told him. Some 15 minutes after the\ncall a crowd ran into our entryway. Bursting into the building, they broke\ndown the door and came into the apartment . . .\n\nThey came straight to our apartment, they knew exactly where the Armenians \nwere. They came into our place. We tried to resist, but there was nothing we \ncould do. One of them took my parents' passports and began to read them. He \nread the surname \"Danielian,\" turned the page, read \"Armenian,\" and that alone\nwas enough to doom us. He said that we should be moved quickly out into the \ncourtyard, where they would have done with us. Another, standing next to him, \npushed some of the keys on the piano and said \"your death has tolled.\" They \nhad knives and steel truncheons.\n\nI had a knife in my hand. Unfortunately, I didn't use it. I just knew that if\nI didn't give up the knife things would be much worse. They struck my parents \nand said that I should put the knife on the piano. Then, one of them commanded\nthat we be taken outside. One person was giving orders. When we were taken \noutdoors I went in the middle, and my mother was behind me. Someone started to\npush her so she'd walk faster; I let her go ahead of me, and fell in behind \nher. When he tried to push me, I hit him, and at that moment they began \nbeating my parents; I realized that resistance was completely useless.\n\nWe are taken out into the courtyard, and the neighbors are standing on their \nbalconies to see what will happen next. The crowd surrounds us. At first they \nstrike me, and I'm knocked out; when I come to, they beat me again . . . I \nlose consciousness often . . . I don't see or hear my parents, since I was the\nfirst one hit and was out cold. When I come to I try to pick them up; they are\nlying next to me. The crowd is gone, the only people around are watching from \ntheir balconies. That's it. I try to pick them up, but can't. My left arm is \nbroken. I start toward the drive, wanting to tell the neighbors to call an \nambulance. The bodies of my parents are still warm.\n\nWe were attacked at around 9 o'clock. I regain consciousness at about 11 and \ntry to make it up the stairs home . . . When I knock at the neighbors' door, \nthey push me back and tell me to go away. I go up to the third floor, our \nneighbor puts a damp cloth on my head and says she will call an ambulance; she\nsends her son off for one and takes me to our apartment. I often look out the \nwindow to see if the ambulance has arrived, but I can't see very far as a \nresult of the blows, and it seems that my parents have already been taken \naway. Then I calm down and try to convince myself that they have been taken \naway, and everything will be OK.\n\nBut they were still there. Later, at 8 in the morning as I found out, the\nambulance picked them up, but they were already dead. If they received\nattention on time, it is possible they would still be alive. Later, around 12 \no'clock on the 29th, policemen in civilian clothing come to our house with \nsome \"assistants.\" They call an ambulance, and 20 minutes later it arrives, \nand I am taken to the Sumgait Emergency Hospital. There they stitch the wounds\non my head and rebind my arm. At 3 o'clock I and the other Armenians who are \nin the hospital are sent by ambulance to Baku.\n\nIn my ward at the Sumgait Hospital there were five people, all of them\nArmenians. The hospital was nearly overflowing with Armenians. The only\nAzerbaijanis there were those whose car had flipped over before the events,\nbefore the 27th.\n\nThen I was in the Semashko Hospital in Baku. I was there 38 days. When I was \nreleased, on the 40th day, I found out that my parents were dead. At first \nthey told me that they were in Moscow being treated, but later I found out \nthat they were dead. My father's older brother told me.\n\nMy father's name was Nikolai Artemovich Danielian. He was born in 1938. My \nmother, born in 1937, was Seda Osipovna Danielian. Papa worked at PMK-20, the \nleader of the roofing brigade; mamma was a compressor operator.\n\nThey were also beaten on the head. The coroner's report stated that their\nheads were smashed open and bled profusely.\n\nAt the confrontation I met Jeykhun Mamedov, who had called. As it turned out \nlater, he had been the one who tipped the crowd off. He had called \nspecifically to find out if we were at home and to find out the exact address \nand dispatch the group. He knew the phone number, but didn't know the address.\nBefore the events I had never seen him, but had often spoken with him on the \nphone, when he would ask to speak with my father. I knew him by name. He \ndenies that I was the one who answered the phone, saying that my father \nanswered it. He denies that he called from a public phone, saying that he \ncalled from home, which also isn't true. I heard noise and the sounds of \nautomobiles. As I later found out, earlier he had been convicted, but had \nnever served any time--he had received a suspended sentence. He was about 20 \nyears old. I don't know if he has since confessed or not. I am sure that he \nwas the one who tipped the crowd off. One-hundred percent sure.\n\nMy parents were from Karabagh. Father was from the village of Badar, and was \ntwo years old when his family moved to Baku, where his elder brothers were to\ngo to school. He was a student at the Naval School, but never graduated. He\nwent off to work on the virgin lands [one of the gigantic agricultural \nprojects instituted under Khrushchev.] When he returned he lived in Baku, and \nlater moved to Sumgait, helping with the town's construction. Mamma was from \nthe village of Dagdagan, also from Karabagh. She worked in Sumgait, first in \na bookstore, and later, on a construction site.\n\n\nMy sister is older than I. She lives with her husband here in Karabagh. I\nalways loved my parents. That was why I went on to 9th grade, because it\nwas their dream that I would continue my studies. I finished 8th grade and\nwanted to enter the Baku Nautical School, and after that, the Military\nSchool. But later I changed my mind, or rather, my parents got me to recon-\nsider, saying that it would be better to finish the 10th grade and then join \nthe Naval School. I was planning to be in the Navy almost my whole life\nlong--since childhood I had dreamed of being a sailor. My father wanted it\nmore than anything. He always recollected his youth, telling of the School,\nand he always said that he had made a big mistake in leaving it.\n\nNow I live in Karabagh and never plan to leave here. I will stay at the home \nof my grandfather, of my ancestors, till the end of my days.\n\nWhile in the hospital in Baku I learned the fates of many others who had\nsuffered as well, like Ishkhan [Trdatov]. He managed to hold them off [at\ntheir residence in Microdistrict 3, Building 6/2, Apartment 6.] for a long\ntime, lost his father [Gabriel], and by some miracle managed to survive. I\nalso learned of Uncle Sasha, from Building 5/2, whose daughter was raped\n\n. . . Besides them, Valery--I forgot his last name--was in the hospital too,\nabout a year younger than I, he went to School No. 14. He was riding with\nhis parents in the car. People were throwing rocks at them, he was hit, and\nhis parents brought him to the hospital, and he was in our ward. We even\ncame to be friends. Before that we had just seen each other around town. But\nin the hospital we got to know one another better. I learned of the fates of\nothers, those who had died, or who were befallen by misfortune . . .\n\nToday Suren Harutunian, the First Secretary of the Communist party of Armenia,\nwas shown on television. To be honest I am glad that Armenia agreed to \nrecognize Nagorno Karabagh as part of the Armenian Soviet Socialist Republic.\nI was repelled, no, revolted, to hear the Baku announcer who read the decision\nof the Azerbaijani Supreme Soviet Presidium against Karabagh becoming part of \nArmenia.\n\nAfter the events in Sumgait and those in Baku, the best solution is to give\nKarabagh to Armenia, return it to Armenia, since the people want to live\npeacefully with the Azerbaijanis, but everything has to be right before they\ncan do that.\n\nI arrived in Karabagh on April 11. I felt very bad. I had constant headaches.\nAfter a while my strength returned. My older sister, Suzanna, took me in. I \nthink that justice should prevail; the people are demanding their due.\n\nYou can't take away what is their due. My parents and I often spoke of Nagorno\nKarabagh, often visited here--spent almost all of my vacations here. We had \neven decided that if Karabagh would be made part of Armenia, we would move \nhere for sure. We always said that the Armenian people had suffered much, and \nthat what had been done in 1921--removing Nagorno Karabagh from Armenia--was\nwrong. Sooner or later, mistakes should be corrected. And in order to correct \na mistake, it must not be repeated; and the fate of all Nagorno Karabagh lies \nin the hands of our government.\n\nJune 13,1988\n\nStepanakert \n", "\n\nThere are various contradictory views on the origin of the Armenians.\nThe name is to be found in the Darian inscriptions in the form 'Armina'\nor 'Aramaniya' is to be found in the inscription on the Bistun monument.\nThe following references to the Armenians are to be found in the Bistun\ncuneiform inscription of Dara Vishdasb (510 B.C.).\n\n\n 6. On reaching Arminam 'Armeniya'.\n\n 7. To the country town of Zozo, to Armaniya 'Armeniya'.\n\nAccording to Karakashian:\n\nAs for 'Armenia', the equivalent of the 'Armin' or 'Arminik' of the Persians,\nthis is more recent than the word 'Ararat', and is to be found used in\nthe Dara inscriptions for 'Haiastan'. \n\nSaint Martin:\n\nThe name 'Armenie' has been given since very early times by almost all\nthe various eastern peoples to the territory referred to by the Armenians\nas 'Haiastan'. It was known to the Syrians as Armenia and to the Arabs\nas Ermeniyye.\n \nOthers believe that Urartu was known in the time of the Medes as 'Harminap'\nwhich was later modified by the Persians to 'Arminia'. 'Ar' refers to a\nplace, as in Ararat, Archish, Aruyr, Archar, Arshav, Arazen and Aror, \nwhile 'men' is used to refer to spirit, thought or human being, and \ntherefore 'Armen' would appear to signify 'the people of that place'.\n\nG. Alishan believes that 'according to our national vocabulary \"Haik\"\nis the diminutive form of \"Hai\", and that \"Hai\" is the name of our\nnation. Our nation is in no way connected with the word \"Armen\" that\nforeigners apply to our people.'\n\nIt would thus appear that 'Armenia' is a place-name, that 'Armen' is \nthe name of the people who lived there, and that these are in no way\nconnected with the word 'Hai'.\n\nHaik and Haiastan:\n\nArmenian historians believe Haik to have been a great hero from whom\nthe Armenian people took the name 'Hai'. But the mere resemblance\nbetween the words 'Haik' and 'Hai' constitutes no real proof, and,\nin any case, no such theory appears before the time of Moses of\nKhoren.\n\nHaiasa:\n\nThe following studies show quite clearly that 'Hai' and 'Haiasa' were\nno more than general names used by the Hittites to refer to the \nregion known as Armenia.\n\nProfessor Hachadurian: 'Haiasa was the general name used in Hittite\ninscriptions for Upper Armenia.'\n\nYensen, in his 'Hittites and Armenians' tries to prove that 'Hai' is\nidentical with the Hittite 'Hatio', in other words that 'Hai' is a\nHittite word. Research, however, has proved this erroneous, and shown\nthat 'Hai' was derived from 'Hatio'.\n\nMortman's attempt to read the Urartu inscriptions as Armenian met with \nno success. As for Greek, there is no point in even mentioning it.\n\nThe resemblance between the words 'Haiasa' and 'Haiastan' is so obvious\nthat we may well accept 'Haiasa' as the oldest form of 'Haiastan'.\n\nLet us now cast a brief glance on how the words 'Hai', 'Haikazan' and\n'Haiastan' entered our older works.\n\nAccording to Karakashian: \n\n'The word \"Haik\" is never to be found employed with reference to a\nleader of the Armenian people prior to Moses of Khoren, nor is it\never found employed in the forms \"Haika\" or \"Haykazn\".\n\nAgahangelos and Puzant use the word as a title or a place-name (he\nimproved and developed Haiastan, etc.). If the word had referred\nto a nation and had been derived from \"Hai\" or \"Haik\" they could \nalso have used the words \"Haikak\" and \"Haykazn\" in a number of\nplaces.'\n\nAccording to Professor Sayce, who deciphered a number of Hittite \ninscriptions:\n\n'In the Hittite language the suffix -ha is used to specify quality\nor species. The words \"Haddanas\", \"Haddina\" were used by the \nAssyrians to refer to the Hittites. With the transformation of the\n\"d\" between the two \"a\" letters to \"y\" \"Hadinasdani\" was in this\nway transformed to \"Haiastan\"'.\n\nProfessor Grechmer fully agrees with this point of view, but regards\nthe significance and explanation so far accorded to the terms 'Hai'\nand 'Haistan' as quite unsatisfactory. He finds, however, that a \nsolution to this problem is brought nearer by the name 'Haiasa' \nwhich is so frequently found in Bogazkoy from 1400 B.C. onwards.\nForrer takes 'Haiasa' as referring to Upper Armenia. In that case\nit seems likely that 'Haiasa' was actually a part of Armenia. The\nsuffix -dan is of Anatolian origin. The real root is 'Hayasa', which\nrefers to the country of the 'Hayasas'.\n\nE. Chantre writes as follows on the subject of the ethnological \nand Anthropological characteristics of the Armenian people.\n\nThe Armenians in Russia may be characterized as follows: Almost\nall of them are brachycephalic or leptocephalic, very dark,\nabove average height, an Aissores Asian group with close ties\nwith certain Kurdish tribes and Azerbaijan peoples.\n\nAccording to J. Deniker:\n\nFrom the philological point of view, the Armenian and Kurds may be\nregarded as belonging to the Iranian group...The Armenians are \ndescended from various elements and from a very mixed race. Their\naverage height varies between 1.63 and 1.69 according to the region.\nThey are almost always short-headed, with skull measurements of \n85-87. As a race they belong to the Indo-Afghan-Assyrian-Turkic\nfamily.\n\nProfessor Rene Vernont writes as follows:\n\nThe Armenians are a mixture of Semites, Turk, Kurds and Mongols,\nbut some of them display Armenian features, e.g., height a little\nabove average, fair complexion, dark hair, dark eyes, very often\na hooked nose and a rather wide mouth. \n\nInvestigations carried out by N. Kossovitch on the links between\nArmenian blood groups and their anthropological characteristics\nled him to the conclusion that the Armenians did not form a \ndistinct race.\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\n\nYour ignorance is hardly characteristic of most '*ians'. Sarkis Atamian \nexplains in his book called 'The Armenian Community, New York 1955, \nPhilosophical Library' that, according to historians, original fatherland \nof the Armenians was in Thessaly, Greece. Armenian invaders burned and \nsacked the fatherland of Urartus, massacred and exterminated its population \nand presented to the world all those left from the Urartus, as the Armenian \ncivilization. All reliable western historians describe how Armenians \nruthlessly exterminated 2.5 million Muslim women, children and elderly \npeople of Eastern Anatolia and how they collaborated with the enemies of \nthe Muslim people between 1914-1920. It is unfortunately a truth that \nArmenians are known as collaborators of the Nazis during World War II \nand that, even today, criminal members of the ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism \nTriangle preach and instigate racism, hatred, violence and terrorism \namong peoples. \n\n\nWho says 'Arromdians' are no damn good? During World War II Armenians \nwere carried away with the German might and cringing and fawning over \nthe Nazis. In that zeal, the Armenian publication in Germany, Hairenik, \ncarried statements as follows:[1]\n\n\"Sometimes it is difficult to eradicate these poisonous elements (the Jews)\n when they have struck deep root like a chronic disease, and when it \n becomes necessary for a people (the Nazis) to eradicate them in an uncommon\n method, these attempts are regarded as revolutionary. During the surgical\n operation, the flow of blood is a natural thing.\" \n\nNow for a brief view of the Armenian genocide of the Muslims and Jews -\nextracts from a letter dated December 11, 1983, published in the San\nFrancisco Chronicle, as an answer to a letter that had been published\nin the same journal under the signature of one B. Amarian.\n\n \"We have first hand information and evidence of Armenian atrocities\n against our people (Jews). Members of our family witnessed the \n murder of 148 members of our family near Erzurum, Turkey, by Armenian \n neighbors, bent on destroying anything and anybody remotely Jewish \n and/or Muslim. Armenians should look to their own history and see \n the havoc they and their ancestors perpetrated upon their neighbors.\n Armenians were in league with Hitler in the last war, on his premise \n to grant themselves government if, in return, the Armenians would \n help exterminate Jews. Armenians were also hearty proponents of\n the anti-Semitic acts in league with the Russian Communists.\"\n\n Signed Elihu Ben Levi, Vacaville, California.\n\n[1] James G. Mandalian, 'Dro, Drastamat Kanayan,' in the 'Armenian\n Review,' a Quarterly by the Hairenik Association, Inc., Summer:\n June 1957, Vol. X, No. 2-38.\n\nAnd stick around...\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nArmenians have been doing just that for a long, long time.\n\nSource: \"Hagop Hagopian said to have been part of 1972 Terror Attack at\nMunich Olympic Games,\" The Armenian Reporter, February 7, 1985, p. 1.\n\n\"Le Matin, the influential Paris daily, based on unidentified sources,\nclaimed last week that Hagop Hagopian, the founder and leader of one\nfaction of the Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia (ASALA),\nwas among the Arab terrorists who staged an attack on the living quarters\nof Israeli athletes at the 1972 Olympic Games...\n\nLe Matin added that up to 1982, Hagopian operated out of Beirut, Lebanon,\nbut escaped from the country when Israeli forces entered the city. It was\nabout this time that a statement issued by ASALA claimed that Mr. Hagopian\nwas dead of wounds suffered during a bombing by the Israeli Air Force,\nalthough it is generally believed that the mysterious leader is alive and\nwell and presently is residing alternately in Damascus, Syria, and\nAthens, Greece. The paper also noted that the socialist government of\nPrime Minister Andreas Papandreou and his P.A.S.O.K. party accepted the\nArmenian underground leader with \"open arms\" and still providing him\nwith assistance simply because of Greece's traditional enmity with Turkey.\n\nLe Matin further adds that ASALA derives only a small portion of its\nexpenditures from wealthy Armenians who support the cause, with the rest \ncoming either from other sources or from proceeds of an involvement in\ndrug trafficking.\"\n\nSerdar Argic", "Accounts of Anti-Armenian Human Rights Violations in Azerbaijan #007\n Prelude to Current Events in Nagorno-Karabakh\n\n\n +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+\n | |\n | They grab Papa, carry him into one room, and Mamma and me into another. |\n | They put Mamma on the bed and start undressing her, beating her legs. |\n | They start tearing my clothes, right there, in front of Mamma. I don't |\n | remember where they went, what they did, or how much time passed. I had |\n | the feeling that they beat me on the head, on my body, and tore my |\n | clothes, all at the same time, I don't even know what I said. The |\n | atrocities started. I was savagely raped in that room. They argued among |\n | themselves who would go first. |\n | |\n +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+\n\n\nDEPOSITION OF KARINE (KARINA) GRIGOREVNA M. [1]\n\nBorn 1964\nSecretary-Typist\nAzsantekmontazh Trust\nSumgait Construction and Installation Administration\nSecretary of the SMU Komsomol Organization\n\nResident at Building 17/33B, Apartment 15\nMicrodistrict No. 3\nSumgait [Azerbaijan]\n\n\nOn the 27th my sister Marina and I went to the movies the seven o'clock show,\nat the theater that is across from the City Party Committee, about 50 yards \naway. The SK theater. They were showing an Argentinian film, \"The Abyss.\" \nBefore the film we noticed about 60 to 70 people standing near the podium at \nthe City Party Committee, but they were silent, there's no conversation \nwhatsoever, and we couldn't figure out what was going on. That is, we knew it \nwas about Karabagh, but what it was exactly, what they were talking about, if \nsomeone gave a speech or not, we didn't know. We bought our tickets. There \nwere 30 or 40 people in the theater. This was a very small number for that \nlarge movie theater. The film started. About 30 minutes later they stopped the\nfilm. A crowd burst in. About 60 people. They came up onto the stage. Well \nmostly they were young people, from 16 to 23 years old. They demanded that an \nArmenian woman come up onto the stage. They used foul language and said that \nthey were going to show what Azerbaijanis were capable of, what they could do \nto Armenian girls. I thought that's what they meant because they had demanded \na girl specifically. Marina and I were sitting together. I told her to move \nover, there were some Russian girls sitting nearby. So that if someone \nrecognized me or if something happened, they would take me, and not Marina. \nIt got quiet, 2 or 3 girls jumped up to run out, but the door was closed--it's\nonly opened at the end of the show--and they returned to their seats. \nEveryone in the theater was looking at one another, Russians, Azerbaijanis, \npeople of various nationalities. But no one reacted at all, no one in the \nauditorium made a sound. They were silent, looking at one another, and \ngradually started to leave. Some guy, a really fat one, says, \"OK, we've \nscared them enough, let's leave.\" They leave slowly, pompously. It seemed to \nme that those people were not themselves. Either they had smoked a bunch of \n\"anasha\", or had taken something else, because they all looked beastly, like \nthey were ready to tear anyone apart. Then it was all over, as though nothing \nhad happened at all. The film started up again, it was one of those cheerful \nfilms which should have only brought pleasure, made you happy to be alive. We \ncould barely sit to the end. So it had started at seven it was over by nine, \nand it was dark . . .\n\nMarina and I were walking home, Lenin Street, that's the center of town. Lenin\nStreet was packed, just packed with young people. They were shouting, \nsomething about Karabagh and something about Armenians. We weren't especially \nlistening, because the way we were feeling we didn't know if we were going to \nmake it home or not, and just what had happened anyway? Public transportation \nwasn't running. Incidentally, when we came out of the theater we saw police, \npolicemen standing there. The director of the movie theater was looking at the\ndoors, because when they were leaving they had broken the glass, the doors \nthere are basically all glass. Everything was broken. He stood there grief-\nstricken, but looking as though nothing really big had happened, like some \nnaughty boys had just broken them quite by accident, with a slingshot. Well, \nsince he looked more or less calm I decided that, nothing all that super \nserious had happened. We went out very slowly; we wanted to catch a bus, we \nlive literally one stop away. We didn't want to go on foot, not because it was\ndark, but because something might happen. We flagged down a cab, but the \ndriver didn't want to take us. We told him we live near the bus station, and \nhe said he'd take us to the bus station and not a yard farther. I said, well, \nOK . . .\n\nSo we got into the cab and managed to get there. Something incredible was \nhappening at the bus station. There was a traffic jam. Public transportation \nwas at a standstill and everyone was shouting \"Ka-ra-bagh,\" they're not going \nto give up Karabagh. I go home and tell my family what's going on, and there's\nimmediate panic in the house. Mamma says, what should we do? Like the end had \ncome, they were going to come, kill us, that's it . . . Somehow we managed to \ncheer ourselves up: Nothing that bad could happen. Where are we living anyway,\njust what kind of social order do we have? Somehow we manage to calm Mamma \ndown. And we went to bed. But no one could sleep. Everyone made as though \nnothing had happened.\n\nThat was on Saturday. In short, the day went by. We didn't go anywhere and \ndidn't call our relatives. No one did anything. Because . . . life goes on.\nThat day I realized something was approaching, but what exactly, I couldn't\nguess.\n\nOn the 28th everything was like it was supposed to be, we lived like we always\nhad. There were five of us at home: Mamma, Papa and us, three sisters: Lyuda, \nMarina, and I. My sister Lyuda was in Yerevan at the time. We sat at home and \nno one went out. Later we learned that a demonstration had started that \nmorning. It all started . . . They were smashing up stores. We were sitting at\nhome and didn't know anything about it. Then a girlfriend of mine, Lyuda \nZimogliad, came by at around three o'clock I think. We worked together, we did\nour apprenticeships together, she's a Russian girl. She said that something\nawful was happening in town. I asked, \"Don't they want Armenians? Well what \nare they after, if they're already in that state?\" She says, no, nothing like \nthat, it's just a demonstration, but it's awful to watch it. Somehow, it feels\nlike a war has broken out. Public transportation has been stopped . . . The \ncabs, the buses, well it's just a nightmare.\n\nThen Papa decides to go to the drugstore, my mother was having allergy \nproblems at the time . . . He left the house and our neighbor, Aunt Vera,\nasked him, \"Where are you going? Stop! There are such terrible things going\non in the courtyard; aren't you afraid to go out?\" Papa didn't know what she\nwas talking about. She simply pushed him back into the entryway. He came home \nand told Mamma. Mamma said, \"Well, if Aunt Vera was talking like that it means\nthat something is really going on.\" But we didn't go see her, she's a Russian,\nshe lives across from us. I had to see my friend out. Around five o'clock I \ntell Lyuda, \"Ok, look, it's time for you to go, it's late already, I'll see \nyou out.\" Mamma says, \"You don't need to go, it's too late already, you can \nsee what the situation in town is.\" So we decided to stay home. Dinner was \nready. Mamma says, \"Let her eat with us, then she can go.\" We sat down at the \ntable. But no one was hungry, no one was in the mood, we just put everything \nout on the table to calm ourselves down, and make it appear that we're eating.\nWe turned on the television, and the show \"In Fairy-Tale Land\" was coming on. \nWe cleared the table.\n\nWe hear some noise out in the courtyard. I go out on the balcony, but I can't \nsee what's going on, because the noise is coming from the direction of the bus\nstation, and there is a 9-story building in the way. There is mob of people \n. . . I can't figure out what's happening. They're shouting something, looking\nsomewhere, I can't make out what is going on. I go down to a neighbor, she's \nan Azerbaijani; we've been friends of her family for about 25 years. I go down\nto look from their place. I see people shouting, looking at the 5-and 9-story \nbuildings near the bus station. Just then soldiers set upon them, about 20 \npeople, with clubs. The mob runs off in different directions. I even see \nseveral people from our building. They are looking and laughing . . . I decide\nthat means it's not all that bad if they are laughing: it means they're not \nkilling anyone. But now the crowd suddenly dashes toward the soldiers. One of \nthe soldiers cannot manage to get away, they start stomping on him with their \nfeet, everyone's kicking him . . . I become ill and go home, and explain in \ngeneral terms that horrible things are going on out there . . . can't speak\n. . . Well, they've probably killed that soldier, the way that crowd is . . .\nIf each of them kicked him just once . . . They took his club away from him\nand started to beat him with it. But it was far away and I couldn't see if he\ngot up and left or not.\n\nI become terrified and go home and say, \"Lyuda, don't go anywhere, stay at our\nplace, because if you go out they could kill you or . . . \" Then the crowd \nruns over closer toward our building and stands at the 12-story building and \nstarts shouting something. We go out onto the balcony. All of our neighbors \nare also out on theirs, too. Everyone is standing, staring. The mob is \nshouting and about 5 minutes later comes running toward our building. As it \nturns out, at the 12-story building the Azerbaijani neighbors went down and \nkept them from coming in. There's only one entryway there, they could stop \nthem.\n\nThey all run up to our building. Mamma immediately starts closing the windows,\nafraid that they might throw stones. They have stones and they break the \nwindows, all of them. There are very many people. We have a large courtyard, \nand it's packed with people. They spill up to the first floor so they don't \ncrush each other. They crawl up on trees, posts, and garages. It's just a huge\ncloud of people. They break and burn the motorcycle of the Armenian Sergey \nSargisian, from our building. We close the windows and immediately hear \ntramping in our entryway. They come up to our fifth floor with a tremendous \ndin and roar. It's incomprehensible. Mamma told me later that they were \nshouting Father's name, \"Grisha, open the door, we've come to kill you!,\" or\nsomething like that. I don't remember that, I was spaced out, kind of. Mamma \nsays, \"Into the bedroom, quickly!\" In the bedroom we have two tall beds, part \nof our dowry; Mamma says, \"Hide there, they probably won't come in there, \nthey'll ask something, say something, and leave.\" She says, \"We'll tell them \nthat we live alone here.\" I can't imagine that my parents will stand out in \nthe hall alone talking with some sort of beasts . . . I go to them and say \nthat I'll stand together with them, I'll talk with them if they come, maybe I \ncan find a common language with them, all the more so if they know me: I speak \nAzerbaijani more or less, and I can find out what they want. I told Marina and\nLyuda to hide under the bed, and my sister Lyuda, I can't remember if I told \nher anything or not.\n\nThen . . . they open the door: it's like they blew on it and it broke and fell\nright into the hall. The crows bursts in and starts to shout: Get out of here,\nleave, vacate the apartment and go back to your Armenia; things like that. I\ntell them, \"What has happened, speak calmly. One of you, tell me, calmly, what\nhas happened.\" In Azerbaijani, they say, \"Get out of the apartment, leave.\" I \nsay, \"OK. Go downstairs. We'll gather everything we need and leave the \napartment.\" I realize that it is senseless to discuss any sort of rights with\nthem, these are animals. They must be stopped. The ones standing in the\ndoorway, the young guys, say, \"There are old people and one girl with them.\nToo bad!\" They take two or three steps back. It seems as though I have\npacified them with our exchange. Then someone in the courtyard shouts, \ncommanding them: \"Don't you understand what you are saying? Kill them?\"\n\nAnd that was it! That was all it took. They grab Papa, carry him into one\nroom, and Mamma and me into another. They put Mamma on the bed and start \nundressing her, beating her legs. They start tearing my clothes, right there, \nin front of Mamma. I don't remember where they went, what they did, or how \nmuch time passed. I had the feeling that they beat me on the head, on my body,\nand tore my clothes, all at the same time, I don't even know what I said. The \natrocities started. I was savagely raped in that room. They argued among \nthemselves who would go first.\n\nLater, I remember, I came to. I don't know if I'm dead or alive. Someone comes\nin, someone tall, I think, clean-shaven, in an Eskimo dogskin coat, balding. \nHe looks around at what's happening. At that instant everything stops. It \nseems to me that he is either their commander or . . . that somehow everything\ndepends on him. He looks and says, \"Well, we're done here.\" They are beating\nMamma on the head. They break up the chairs and beat her with the chair legs \n. . . She loses consciousness, and they decide that she's dead. Papa . . . was\nout cold. They want to throw Lyuda off the balcony, but they can't get the \nwindow open. Apparently the window frames are stuck after the rain and the \nwindows can't be opened. They leave her next to the window. She was thinking \nabout being thrown out the window and passed out. She's not a real strong \nperson anyway . . . He looks at me and sees that I'm saying something, that\nI'm still twitching. Well, I start saying the opposite of what I should be, \nwhich is humbling myself and pleading. I start shouting, cursing . . . they \ndon't get any entreaty out of me. I already know that I'm dead, why would I \nhumble myself before anyone? And he says that if that's what I think, since my\ntongue is so long . . . maybe he thinks that I still look quite appealing \n. . . In short, he commands that I be taken outside.\n\nI no longer saw or remembered what was happening to Marina and Lyuda, I don't \nknow if they are alive or not. They take me outside. They are dragging me by \nmy arms, by my legs. They are hitting me against the wall, the railings, \nsomething metal . . . While they are carrying me someone is biting me, someone\nelse is pinching me . . .I don't even know. I think, my God, when will death \ncome? If only it were sooner . . . Then . . . they carry me out, throw me near\nthe entryway . . . and start kicking me. I lose consciousness . . . What \nhappened after that, how many people there were, I don't remember.\n \nI come to after a while, I don't remember how long. A neighbor is bringing me \nclothing. I'm entirely covered with blood, she puts a dress on me. I remember \nthat I said the same words over and over again: \"Mamma, what happened, Mamma, \nwhat have they done to us, where are we, whose house are we at?\" I can't make \nsense out of anything. There is a guy standing over me, I sort of know him, he\nserved in Afghanistan, his name is Igor, he brought me indoors. When they all \nwent to the third entryway and killed a person there, Igor gathered his \ncourage, took me into his arms, and brought me to the neighbors', even though \nhe's small-minded, he put himself at risk. Igor Agayev is Azerbaijani; he \nserved in Afghanistan. There are three brothers. The older brother also served\nthere, I think; now he's stationed here, on the border, in Armenia. Igor \nbrought me to the neighbors', and then helped me come to my senses, saying, \n\"Karina, I know you, calm down, I'm not one of them.\" How do I know who's who \nand what's what? I come to, and they clean me up. I was covered in blood. Then\nPapa . . . I saw Papa, I saw Mamma. And Marina, too . . . Igor was there when \nthey dragged Marina and Lyuda out from under the bed . . . Marina . . . Lyuda \nsaid that she was Russian, they said, we'll let you go, we aren't touching the\nRussians, go. And while they are dragging Marina out she decides she's going \nto tell them she's Azerbaijani. Igor immediately grabs Marina's and Lyuda's \nhands, because he knows Marina, and knows that she is Armenian and is our \nsister, and takes her to the second floor to a neighbor's and starts pounding \non the door so she will open up. She opens the door and Igor pushes them in \nthere. So they survived.\n\nMy sister Lyuda lost consciousness after the bandits started stealing things.\nWhile they were going downstairs, taking things downstairs, then coming back \nup again, Lyuda seized the opportunity and crawled under the bed and stayed \nthere. Then, when she was herself again, she found a torn night shirt and put \nit on, and some sort of robe and went to a neighbor's on the fourth floor, the\none whose apartment I had watched the crowd from, the friend of ours, and \nknocked on the door. The neighbor opened and said, \"I'm not going to let you \nin the apartment because I'm afraid of them. But I'll give you some stockings \nand we'll leave the building.\" Lyuda says, \"I'll stay at your place because of\nwhat's going on, they keep going up and down the stairs.\" It was just for a \nmoment, just a moment in life, but the neighbor wouldn't consent. Lyuda came \nback to our place and lay under the bed . . .\n\nI came to. Mother was there. I can't remember my supervisor's telephone \nnumber, but something had to be done. Somehow I remembered and called, and he \ncame to get us. He didn't have any idea what was going on. He thought we were \nsimply afraid, he didn't know that they were killing us and that we had passed\nbetween life and death. He came and got us and took us to the police precinct.\nThere they looked us over. I was having trouble walking, my lungs hurt badly, \nit was hard to breathe . . .\n\nMy supervisor's name is Urshan Feyruzovich Mamedov. He's the head of our \nadministration. They took us there. When we were leaving, I saw a great number\nof buses full of soldiers at the entrance to town. The buses were ordinary \npassenger buses. There were very many soldiers. We left around eleven, right \nafter eleven. If these people could stop what was happening they could save a \ngreat many lives . . . Because the crowd was moving on, toward the school, and\nwhat was going on there . . . I think everyone know not only in Sumgait, not \nonly in Yerevan. Because there they murdered them all one after the next, \nwithout stopping. After us.\n\nI think 14 people died in Microdistrict No. 3, and 10 to 12 of them were from\nBuildings 4, 5, and 6. In our building one person died, and one old woman died\nfrom Building 16, that's the building in front of ours. There young \nAzerbaijani men stopped the mob and wouldn't let it into their building. \nIncidentally, when we were at the neighbors', Marina called our relatives\nto warn them, so they would all know what was happening. I called a aunt in \nMicrodistrict No. 5. They have three neighbors who are Armenians. I said, \"Run\nquickly, I can't explain what's going on; hide, do what you can, just stay\nalive. Hide at Azerbaijanis', ones who won't give you away.\" At that moment \nthree people came in, policemen. I think they were Azerbaijanis. I was in such\nawful condition, my face was completely distorted my lips were puffed up, \nthere was blood, my eye was swollen, no one thought I would ever see anything \nout of that eye again . . . my forehead was badly cut, and one-half of my face\nwas pushed out forward. No one would have thought that I would survive, get my\nnormal appearance back, and be able to grasp anything at all. I started to \nscream at those people, why did you come, who sent you here, no one wants you \nhere, haven't you killed people people yet, what are you doing here? One of \nthe soldiers said, \"Don't scream at us. We're Muslims, but we're not from the \nSumgait police. They called in from Daghestan.\" So at that point the \nDaghestan police were there.\n\nWhen we got to the police precinct there were an awful lot of police there,\nthere were soldiers, police with dogs, ambulances, firemen . . . I don't know,\nmaybe they were waiting for people to bring them the goners and the seriously \ninjured to treat them there in the police precinct. I don't know what they \nwere there for. There were also doctors from Baku there. They examined Lyuda \nand me and said, \"These women need to go to the Maternity Home, but we don't \nknow what to do with the rest.\"\n\nSo they took us, and I lost contact with my parents, my boss, everyone. My \nboss said, \"Don't worry, I'll find you, no matter where you are, no matter\nwhat happens.\" We went to the hospital. There we were examined by a department\nhead from the Sumgait Maternity Home, Pashayeva, I think her name was. She \nexamined us. The ambulance was from Baku; I figured out that the Sumgait \nambulances hadn't done anything, they didn't respond to any calls. People \ncalled and neither the police nor the ambulances showed any sign of life.\n\nThat doctor looked me over and I could tell from her behavior that something\nvery good had happened, for she became quite glad. I even thought to myself, \n\"God, can it be that nothing all that bad is wrong?\" She looks me over and \nsays, \"Now why are you suffering so? You don't know what your people have been\ndoing, your people did even worse things.\" And I think, great, I have to deal \nwith her . . . And I felt so bad, I thought, why don't I just die so as not to\nhave to hear more stuff like this from people like her? Here I am in this \ncondition and being told about something that our people did. I just didn't \nhave the energy to say, \"How could our people possibly be smart enough to \nthink of something that yours haven't already done?\" I stayed there. Then they\nbrought in another woman, Ira B., she was married, and she was raped in her \nown apartment, too. There were three of us, Ira, Lyuda, and 1. The next \nmorning they took Lyuda and Ira away. They didn't do anything to help us. This\nwas in the old Maternity Home, in the combined block. They didn't do anything \nmore than examine me, that was it. I didn't want any shots or tranquilizer, \nnothing. What shots could have calmed me down? I didn't even want to look at \nthem.\n\nI lay in the ward. Either it just worked out that way or they did it on pur-\npose, but I was alone. I was alone even though the wards were packed. That\nsame evening a woman came by and asked me what was wrong with me, that my face\nwas disfigured. She asked what had happened to me, and I said, \"Better to ask \nyour brother what happened, there's no point in asking me, your brother can \nbetter explain what happened.\" She fell into a faint. All the doctors threw \nthemselves at her, and the doctor categorically forbade anyone to come into my\nward.\n\nThen people from work came to see me, my boss, his daughter; they brought me \nclothing, because I was literally naked. The only thing I had on was a dress, \nbut the woman who gave it to me was very short, and the dress was way up \nabove my knees, and the woman orderly said, \"I can't believe you put on such a\nshort dress, who are you showing off your legs to here?\" I went back to my \nward thinking, just one more thing from something. People from work came and \nbrought me something in a sack, apples, I think, three or four pounds, but I \ncouldn't take them. I had become so weak that it was just embarrassing. I said\nthat I couldn't take the apples, and really didn't have any appetite. No one \nhad to bring me anything. Some woman took the sack . . . And, oh yes! . . . \nThen I heard that the head doctor tell a nurse that my medical history should \nbe hidden or torn up completely so that no one would know that I was an \nArmenian, maybe they wouldn't figure it out from looking at me. So they must \nhave been thinking that there would be some kind of attack, that something \nelse would happen. That it would be worse. Or, perhaps, someone was outside on\nthe street, I don't know. In any case, I didn't sleep a wink that night.\n\nThe next morning they picked me up, a whole police detail, put me in a bus, \nand off we went. I didn't even know where they were taking me. They took me to\nthe club where the troops were, the very one I was in that ill-fated evening.\nI got off the bus. Near the City Party Committee there were a great many \ntroops, tanks, armored personnel carriers; the whole scene was terrible. I saw \na few people I knew there, and that calmed me a little. I had already thought \nthat I was the only one left. So there were five or six of us left in Sumgait \nafter that night. I still didn't know what happened to my parents, they didn't \ncome to see me in the hospital, and my boss told me that everything was fine. \nI didn't know whether to believe him or not. Maybe he was just trying to calm \nme down, maybe something happened on the way. Then I went to the club and saw \na lot of people I knew. They all knew one another, they were all kissing each \nother and asking, \"What happened, what went on?\" Two days later they came to \nsee me from work. They were there all the time. Each day they came, showed \ninterest, and were constantly bringing me money. They did everything they \ncould. Of course I'm most thankful to my boss, the only one of my colleagues \nwho didn't lose his presence of mind and who didn't change his opinions, \nneither before, nor after, nor in the heat of the moment, no matter what \nhappened. He constantly took an interest. A sincere interest, from the heart \n. . . Then, about two days later, the secretary of the Party Committee came, \nnot from our Party organization, but from the First Trust, which ours is part \nof, Comrade Kerimov, a very important figure in our town. He made arrangements\nwith the emergency medical personnel to take me away, because if I sat down by\nmyself I couldn't get up or lie down again. There was something wrong with my\nlungs, it was hard to breathe. They examined me there several times, there I \nlay were several doctors, they all thought that . . . that it must just be \nfrom all the blows, I don't know. They didn't diagnose anything in particular.\nWhen I was in the Maternity Home I even asked . . . I made it a point of \ninsisting that they take me to the trauma section because I felt so awful. \nThere was no way something inside wasn't broken, my ribs . . . Well they took \nme there and took x-rays and said that everything was fine. There were \nemergency medical workers on duty in the club. The mother of one of Marina's \nfriends was there. She was the head doctor at the Sumgait Children's Clinic. \nThey had every kind of antifever agent in the world, which was exactly what I\nneeded at that moment, I thought. I said that I was having great difficulty\nbreathing, I couldn't seem to get enough air, something was wrong with me.\nThey put tight bandages around my chest and waist. Later I overheard some\npeople saying that I had been cut all over. I think they just saw me being all\nbandaged up and decided that my breasts and face had been cut . . . But I\nwasn't cut.\n\nThey took us to the Khimik boarding house. We lived there a long time. Soon \nappeared representatives . . . They were agitating. At first people would not \ntalk to them, and drove them off. One of the Armenian women shouted, \"We \ndemand that Seidov come!\" The response was, \"It's Seidov who sent us.\" Seidov \nis the Chairman of the Azerbaijani Council of Ministers. The woman said, \n\"We'll only see Seidov's daughter, have her come here, we'll do the same \nthings to her that they did to our daughters, and then we'll deal with you \nagitators.\" And so on. More of them said, \"Have Seidov himself come.\" This \nwent on day in, day out. The agitators kept coming and coming, this drove us \nout of our wits. Then people gradually started departing for Yerevan because \nthey realized it was senseless to stay. Everything got on our nerves: The \nsmell, the small children. There were children at the SK club, children who \nhad literally just come out of the Maternity Home. What were they doing in a \nclub that didn't even have running water all the time? At first we had to pay \nto eat there. They even overcharged us, as it turned out. On the second day \nsomeone told us that they would bring us food for free. The children were ill.\nEverything stank there. Well imagine about 3,000 people in a small movie \ntheater with seating for no more than 500. You couldn't sit or lie down, it \nwas impossible to even move. The stench was awful. Even the smallest infants \ntook ill overnight there. I heard that they were arriving seriously ill in \nYerevan, the infants. They have to be washed, they have to be bathed, not to \nmention that we, the adults, were ill and needed care. People were fainting \nright and left. I just don't know, everyone was crying, everyone . . . Only \nthe young people, the men, somehow managed to keep it together. But the women \nwere in a constant state of panic. It seemed to everyone that they would come \nany minute and kill and stab. It seemed clear that we had been gathered \ntogether purposely, like during the war, so that they could burn the movie \ntheater and there wouldn't be a single Armenian left. Then people went up to \nthe attic. I didn't see them, I only heard them, because I was lying down and \ncouldn't get up. I lay right on the stage, we had some room there. Apparently \nthey caught two people with either oil or gas. I think they wanted to burn the\ntheater. Maybe someone saw them, I didn't. I was in no condition to open my \neyes.\n\nEveryone was suspicious of everyone else. They would ask, \"Aren't you an \nAzerbaijani? I think I saw you somewhere, I think you're an Azerbaijani.\" They\nled out all the men and started letting them back in by checking their\npassports, relatives might be covering for each other. Half of the people did\nnot have any documents. There were people who had run out of their homes in \nnothing but a pair of pants and slippers, or wearing just a shirt, not like\nthey should have, with their IDs.\n\nSo on the 28th, on Sunday, I think, the police did nothing to help us. On\nMonday everything resumed where it had left off on Block 41A. They didn't \nspare a soul there: not children, not pregnant women, nobody. They killed,\nthey burned, they hacked with axes, just everything possible. They murdered \nthe Melkumian family whom I knew, my mother worked with them. Their daughter-\nin-law went to school with my older sister. They were brutally murdered. Only \nthe two daughters-in-law survived. By a miracle one was able to save herself, \nshe ran away, the neighbors wouldn't take her in, so she ran about the \nbuilding until she found refuge. She was pregnant and had two small children. \nThis all continued on Monday in Block 41A, on the 29th, when the troops were \nalready in the city.\n\nThey murdered people, they overturned automobiles, and they burned entire \nfamilies. They say they didn't even know for sure if the people were Armenians\nor not. I heard that the Lezgins suffered, too. I'm not sure myself, I didn't \nsee any Lezgins who had been injured. They burned cars so it's very difficult \nnow to say exactly who died and who didn't. It was very difficult to identify \nthe corpses, or rather, what remained of the corpses after they were doused in\ngasoline and burned . . . it's all very hard to imagine, of course I heard \nthat many people disappeared without a trace, from the BTZ plant two people, \nincluding a woman who worked the night shift, Aunt Razmella, who also lived in\nMicrodistrict 3.\n\nThey were stopping buses between Baku and Sumgait. In the evening people who \nhad been visiting Baku were returning to Sumgait, and people from Baku were \ngoing home from Sumgait, and there were students, too. They were simply \nsavagely murdered. They were stopping the buses, the drivers immediately did \nwhat they were told because there was just no other way to deal with that \nhoard of brutally minded people. They stopped the buses, dragged the Armenians\nout and killed them on the spot. I didn't see it myself, but I heard that they\nput them all in a pile so as to burn them. Later it was hard to discern from \nthe corpses, well you can't call them corpses, you had to figure out from the \nashes who it was. l heard that two fellows saved two women, one a student, Ira\nG., if I'm not mistaken. She was in the hospital a long time after that, and \nshe still can't figure out who saved her. She was also brutally raped and \nbeaten and thrown onto a pile of corpses. The fellow pulled her out of that \nwhole pile of corpses, put his coat on her, took her into his arms, and \ncarried her to the city. I still can't imagine how he managed to do that.\n\nI heard that from Engels Grigorian. He knows her, apparently. Well a lot of \npeople went to that hospital anyway. She was in the hospital and singing a \nsong in Armenian, and they wrote the words down, and, I think he still has \nthat piece of paper, because he says that a lot of people now have that song, \nthe one she sang in the hospital where she lay in such bad shape. They \ncouldn't find the guy who saved her. He left her in someone's apartment and\ncalled the ambulance, she was in such awful shape that, probably, like me,\nshe couldn't remember anyone's face.\n\nI think that I knew one of the people who broke into our house, maybe I had \ntalked with him once. But I received so many blows everything was just knocked\nout of my head. I can't remember to this day who he was. Then, it seems, I saw\nthe Secretary of the Directorate's Party organization, where Marina works. She\ngoes to school and works, she goes to night school at AZI, and works by day at\nthe Khimzashchita Construction and Installation Administration. I'm the \nSecretary of the Komsomol organization at our administration and often met \nwith the secretaries of Party and Komsomol organizations. We had joint \nmeetings. I know them all, I've even talked with them, and he, I know, is from\nArmenia. An Azerbaijani, but from Armenia. It became obvious that many of \nthose people were Azerbaijanis born in Armenia.\n\nThey took me to various police stations, to the police precinct, and to the\nProcuracy, because the USSR Procuracy got involved in the case, and I iden-\ntified the photographs of people who I could more or less recognize. They\nshowed me the people who were in our apartment, they're working on our\ncase, but I can't even recognize them, although it was proved that they were\nthe ones, they're processing it somehow. They tell me that they know that\nsomeone held me by the arm and someone else held me by the leg when they were \ndragging me. There was someone else in our apartment who did not even touch \nme, he just stole a blanket and an earring or something like that. All these \npeople, all of them, as much as I've heard about them and seen them, they were\nall from Kafan.\n\nThe Secretary of the Party organization is named Najaf, Najaf Rzayev. He was \nthere when everything started. It must have been him because I didn't \nrecognize anyone else in the crowd whom I knew besides him. All the more since\nI told him, \"Listen, you do something, because you know me.\" He turned away \nand went toward the bedroom, where Marina was. Well you couldn't see Marina \nanyway. There was such a noisy confusion of people that you couldn't make out \nanyone. All of it flew right out of my head, and then gradually I became \nmyself again, at the City Party Committee . . . There were military people \nthere. I told them what went on, and they wrote it all down. I told them his \nname. On March 8 the Secretary of our First Trust Party organization, the one \nwe're part of, came to see us, his name is Najaf Rzayev. I tell Mamma, \"If\nhe's here despite the fact that I gave his name, it means that either his \nalibi has been confirmed or, probably, that they think I'm crazy, not \nresponsible for my words.\" He said, \"What did they do to you, how awful, \nmyself, I hid an Armenian family.\" Then after some time goes by he comes back \nagain and says something entirely different: \"I wasn't at home, my family and \nI went to Baku.\" I said, \"Marina, what is he saying? He said something totally\ndifferent before.\" After that I didn't go to see our Procurator, our case is \nbeing handled by a procurator from Voronezh, Fedorov by name. Fedorov told me \nthat Rzayev's case had just gotten to him, and there were so names involved. \nWhat are they doing with Rzayev?\nDid he prove his alibi or not? They just think that since I was hit in the \nhead I can't say anything for sure, whether it was him or not. It will be an \ninsult if he was in our apartment and doesn't have to pay for it, but at the \nsame time\n\nI'm afraid to say I'm a hundred percent sure that it was he. Because no mat-\nter who I name, they tell me, no, you're wrong, he didn't do that, that one\nwasn't there. All the faces have gotten mixed up in my mind. Who did what\nexactly I can't say. \n\nWhen they took me outside there was a whole crowd there, but I didn't see it, \nbecause I had my eyes closed all the time. It seemed to me that I always got\nit because of my eyes, people were always hassling me, for some reason it \nalways seemed to me that my eyes are responsible. When they were beating my \nface I thought they were trying to put my eyes out. So I had my eyes closed, \nthey took me outside and started to beat me. A young guy, 22, held my arms, he\nworks at the BTZ plant. And right nearby, across the road from us, Block 41, \nis where all this was going on. Right across the road from us. The BTZ \ndormitory is over there, that's where he lives. Now he's in custody, they even\nhave proved, as far as I know, that it was he who killed Shurik Gambarian, the\nclarinet player from the third entryway of our building. One person in our \nbuilding was killed, it was that man.\n\nA guy comes by who shared a room with the guy who was holding me. He saw that\nhe was holding me by the arms and that he was beating me, but he didn't come \nover, he just looked and then went into the dormitory. A while after it was \nall over, people started making announcements in town saying that \ninvestigators had been summoned. That guy went and told them everything. Now \nthey've caught him, everything's been proved. Now, evidently, they've been\nbeating him, I don't know what they're doing with them over there, but he \nhimself said that he was working the night shift at the plant. Some young guy \ncame to the plant and said, \"Everyone who wants to kill Armenians come to the \nbus station on Saturday at ten.\" That was it. He said, the ones who wanted to,\nwent. This was at the BTZ plant, during the night shift, probably, late Friday\nnight. It was at night, they were at the sauna together. And he said, what do \nyou mean, do you understand what you are saying? The others were silent, \nprobably, in their hearts they were thinking, I'm going to go. But they didn't\nsay anything to one another. He said that he thought it important to to go, \nbecause he had heard a lot about what had happened in Kafan, that they had \nkilled their Azerbaijani sisters, their mothers, burned villages, and all of \nthat. That guy was also born in Kafan. That is certain. And Marina says that \nthe Secretary of the Party organization is from Armenia, too. from\n\nI've participated in the investigation a couple of times. I'm satisfied with\nthem thus far. They summoned us and asked about what happened, and every word \nI said was recorded. I met some guy there . . . By the way, he was an \nArmenian. I said that he was in our apartment, but what he did, I don't know. \nHis last name was Grigorian, Eduard Grigorian. He s from Sumgait, from \nMicrodistrict 1. He was sentenced I think, to five years, not his first time. \nHis mother is Russian. I met with him at the KGB in Baku, at the Azerbaijani \nKGB. They took us there and showed me photographs. There were so many \nphotographs, I think they even photographed those people who were caught at \ncurfew, and I've got them all confused. I say, the face was about like this, \nthe guy in the white coat with the red clasps. But he could take that coat off\nand burn it somewhere, and it would be like looking for a needle in a \nhaystack. Well. This guy, Grigorian, I said, he was in our apartment, but he \nis so light-complected that he looks like a Lezgin. I don't know what he did, \nI can't remember. Maybe he beat me or raped me. But he was in our apartment. \nAt the KGB he started asking me, pleading with me, there's no need for this, \nall this stuff, look me in the eyes, you're like a sister to me. I took a look\nat him and thought, \"My God, Heaven forbid that I should have a brother like \nyou.\" But they were satisfied with my responses, because I said everything \nwithout great certainty. I was there with Mamma. Then Lyuda came in, but when \nshe came in she got sick immediately. She wanted to kill him, she crawled over\nthe table at him. She recognized him. When she came to, Lyuda was lying on the\nbalcony, the mob threw her there and all of them ran into the bedroom. We had \nall kinds of boxes with dishes in them, the dowries for all three sisters. \nThey stole everything in the apartment, leaving only small things. At that \nmoment Lyuda came to and started remembering everything. Well, seeing the \nfaces, hearing the voices . . . Two people were saying they could burn the \napartment. Another says, why burn the apartment when I've got three kids and \nno place to live. So this guy was in temporary housing, he didn't have \nanywhere to live, he was from Sumgait. They were sure that they would get the \napartment. Besides, the neighbors were Azerbaijani. Why should they burn the \napartment, they might burn Azerbaijanis. That's what they said. How did they \nknow there were Azerbaijanis there, if they just picked a place, thinking that\nArmenians lived there? We have a list of the residents for our part of the \nbuilding, our name is in there, but how could they know that Azerbaijanis \nlived on the other side of the wall from us? So they didn't set fire to our \napartment.\n\nI don't know, I was in such bad shape that if all of it had come to a halt \nwhen I was outside, if someone had asked me what was happening, I would\nhave said that a civil war was going on. Well, maybe not civil . . . but\nprobably civil, because when they were beating me I opened my eyes and saw\nthat all the neighbors were standing on their balconies and watching, like at\na free horror film. So a civil war was going on, and only the Armenians were\nbeing fought. If it were a world war or something like that, they would have\nbeen fighting everyone. But they only fought us. Then I met some women from \nour building, some Azerbaijanis. They are crying, they tell me, \"Karina, we \nsaw all of it, how could it happen?\" They're asking me! Well I just don't know\nwhat to call it if a normal girl can stand there and watch what happened to \nme. I think that if it were the other way around either I wouldn't have been \nable to take it, or I would have tried to avert it, like that one Azerbaijani \nwoman did in front of our building. A woman lives there, an awful, dissipated \nwoman, if you can call her a woman, the dissipated life she leads. Two \nArmenian families live there, in her part of the building. She came out on the\nbalcony and saw what was happening to me and started to scream and curse. She \ncame down to the entryway and said, \"You'll come in this entryway over my dead\nbody.\" So not one of them took it in his head to go in that entryway. Some \nfolks were saying that those people were so out of control that they didn't \neven know what they were doing. I don't think that's true. They knew very well\nwhat they were doing if they didn't even lift a hand against that woman. They \ncouldn't have cared less about her, but the fact that she was an Azerbaijani \nstopped them.\n\nThey were just beasts, they had smoked so much. When they came to our place \nthey were all chewing something. I noticed: Everyone who came into the \napartment was chewing something. I think, my God, maybe I just think that? \nMaybe I'm losing my mind? But no, they're all chewing something. Maybe it is \nsome kind of drug, it must be, because . . . At first glance they all seemed \nto be such normal people, young, clean-shaven, looking exactly as if they had \ncome to some sort of celebration. But they were shouting something. They\ndidn't talk, they shouted, as though there were deaf people there. They \nscreamed and screamed: \"Yeah, killing, killing, we're killing the Armenians!\" \nOnly they didn't shout \"kill,\" they shouted \"gurun ermianlary.\" Gurun \nliterally means \"kill,\" or \"destroy.\"\n\nThat's how it was! I'll continue. We hid in a captain's apartment, he's an\nAzerbaijani, his wife is a Tatar. We were sitting in their apartment, their \nkids were out in the yard. Their kids knew a whole lot. This was in our part \nof the building, on the third floor. When Mamma came to and couldn't find\nLyuda she took Papa's hand, this was while the looters were stealing things,\nbut they didn't pay attention because they were stealing things. Apparently\nthey had already ceased killing and switched to stealing. Mamma found the\ncourage to . . .\n\nA boy said to my mother \"Where's the gold?\" Mamma said he must have been 12 \nto 14 years old. He even looked Russian, he was so fair-skinned. But the \nAzerbaijanis from Armenia are fair-skinned. I noticed they were all on the \nfair side. He shouted, they were all smashing things, and he asks Mamma where \nthe gold is. We kept our gold in the wardrobe with our important papers. In a \nlittle black bag, we kept everything in there. Mamma doesn't really like to \nwear gold. She probably never even wore those things from the time they were \nbought for her. They took everything that was lying on the cheval glass. Mamma\nthinks that the gold saved us. Because they threw themselves at the gold, and \nMamma grabbed Papa, who was trying to breathe. They had closed his mouth, \nbound his hands, and put a pillow and a chair on his face . . . They had \nshoved something into his mouth so he would suffocate. Mamma grabbed him and \ntore all that stuff off . . . He had something in his mouth, he was having \ntrouble breathing, his nose was filled with blood. Mamma grabbed him and \nstarted running from the fifth down to the first floor because no one wanted \nto open their doors to them. Mamma said that by accident, completely by \naccident that person opened his door, he was sleeping, and said, half-awake, \n\"What's happened?\" He sees that they are bloody. Mamma said, \"At least go and \nfind out what's happening to my daughters, even if they've burned them or \nmurdered them, at least bring the corpses.\" He went looking for us. At that \nmoment Lyuda was under the bed. She says that after they left it seemed that \nsomeone was calling her name. When he quietly called her she couldn't get out \nfrom under the bed. She wanted to get out and was calling softly. She thought \nshe was shouting, but in fact she was either silent or was only talking to \nherself, it just seemed to her that she was shouting. When she got out from \nunder the bed everyone was gone. And again . . . She thought that she had lost\nher mind. I'll never leave here, never! To hell with it! It just seems that \nway to me, I'll come to eventually. But then, when everything had settled \ndown, stopped, that mall brought Lyuda down, and Igor carried me in from\noutside. Or first I was brought in, then Lyuda, I don't remember what order it\nhappened in.\n\nAnd Mamma said, \"Listen, they're all running around down there, shouting \nsomething or other, and running toward the other building.\" It had more or \nless calmed down where we were. Who's dead, who's alive, we don't know. I \ntried to call my girlfriend. I had basically come to. Mamma says, \"Listen;\nlet's go upstairs, at least get a mattress or something. We don't know how \nlong we'll be here. Maybe they didn't burn everything.\" I don't get it, all\nwomen have that feeling, they want to get something from their homes, maybe \nnot everything was taken? I tell Mamma, \"Mamma, what do you need any of that \nfor? To hell with it! We're alive, forget the rest of it, all of it!\" She\nsays, \"No, let's go get at least something. Maybe we'll leave here, spend the \nnight at someone else's.\" Mamma went upstairs, and their little boy, their son\nAlik, was standing on the lookout. lIe was standing there to see if they were \ncoming. They only managed to run up there and grab something one time. He \nshouts, \"Come back, they're coming!\" They didn't have enough time to get a \nlot, mattresses from one apartment, a blanket from another . . . Mamma got my \nknitting . . . Someone managed to grab our old things, the ones we never wore,\nout of the hall . . . Someone took Father's old coveralls. The neighbor, his \nwife, Mamma and Papa . . . Marina went with them. I was in no condition to \nleave. Neither was Lyuda. We just sat. They ran out and we closed the door and\njust then we hear that the mob is on its way toward our place upstairs, \nthey're dragging something again. They were going toward the other building, \nmaybe over by the school, or . . . There was an unfinished building over\nthere, people said they were going toward the basement or the unfinished \nbuilding, they could gradually carry everything over there. Then things more \nor less calmed down. I tried to call my boss.\n\nLater there was more noise. We were on the third floor, in a one-bedroom\napartment, and a woman lives in the one-bedroom place on the second floor,\nAsya Dallakian. She's an old woman, retired. She wasn't at home, at that\ntime she was usually in the country, she has a married daughter there, and\nher grandson is in the army. She is only very rarely in town; she gets her\nretirement money and the apartment is essentially vacant. They started\npounding on her door and broke it down. She had two or three beds in there, \nsomething like that, she's a 60-to 70-year-old woman who really does not even \nlive there. Probably she had some pots, a couple of metal bed frames and \nmattresses, and a television. When her grandson came she bought a television. \nThey started wrecking everything. I started getting sick again. I think, \"My \nGod, what is going on around here? When will this end?\" We turned off the \nlights and sat. As it turns out the people who weren't afraid, the ones who \nknew what was going on, knew not to turn off the lights. We didn't know, but \nthey didn't come to where we were all the same. They all knew very well that \nhe was a captain. He went out and closed the door, and we sat in his \napartment. His last name was Kasumov. He's an exserviceman, retired, works up \nat the fire station at some plant or other. He went out and stood at his door.\nThey tell him, \"Comrade Captain, don't worry, we won't harm you, you're one of\nus.\" He went upstairs, and they say, \"Aren't you taking anything from this \napartment?\" He says, \"I don't need anything.\" And the women who were standing \nin the yard . . . we have a basement, full of water . . . the women who were \nstanding in the yard saw. Those guys, they left everything they stole on the \nfirst floor and ran upstairs again. The women threw everything they had time \nto into the basement, to save our property. Some things were left: dirty \npillows, two or three other things and a rug. A guy came downstairs, really \nmad, and he says, \"Where's the rug? I just put it right here!\" They tell him, \n\"Some guy came and took it and went off toward the school.\" He ran off in that\ndirection.\n\nOh! I forgot the most important point. When Igor picked me up in his arms, \nthere were women standing there who saw everything that was going on. They \njust didn't tell me about it for a long time. The wife of that military man, \nshe didn't want to kill my spirit, I was already dead enough. Later she told \nme, that after they murdered Uncle Shurik in the third entryway one of them, \nthe ringleader, apparently a young man, said, \"Where's the girl who was here?\"\nAnd he became furious. The woman tells him, \"She came to . . . \" She didn't\nknow what to say: Think something up? Someone carried her off? Then they would\ncomb the whole house and find me and our whole family. So the woman says, \"She\ncame to and went to the basement.\" Now, our basement is full of water. So the \nwhole mob dashes off to the basement to look for me or my corpse. They took \nflashlights; they were up to their waists in water, water which had been \nstanding there for years, and soot, and fuel oil. They climbed down in there \nto get me. Then one of them said, \"There's so much water down there, she \nprobably walked and walked and then passed out and died. She met her death in \nthe basement. That's it, we can leave, no problem!\" I didn't know that, and \nwhen I was told, I felt worse. Two times worse. A lot worse! So they didn't \njust want to pound me flat, something more awful was awaiting me . . .\n\nAfter that we of course didn't want to live in Sumgait any longer. We really \ndidn't want to go back to our apartment. When we moved, I went up there and \nstarted to quiver and shake all over, because I started remembering it all. \nAlthough the neighbors all sobbed, it was all . . . so cheap . . . The people \nwho sat in their apartments and didn't help us at a time like that. I think \nthat they could have helped! I don't think that they were obligated to, but \nthey could have helped us! Because that one woman was able to stop that whole \nbrutal crowd by herself. That means they could have, too. It would have been\nenough foe one man or women to say, What do you think you're doing?\" That's \nall! That would have done it. There were 60 apartments in our building. Not \none person said it! When I was lying on the ground and all those people were \nstanding on their balconies I didn't hear anyone's voice, no one said what are\nyou doing, leave her alone . . . Mamma even told one of the neighbor women \nthat if it had been an Azerbaijani woman in my place they would have dropped a\nbomb if it would have killed even one Armenian. They would have stood up for \none of their own. True, they say that our neighbor from the fourth entryway, \nan old/ sick woman tried to stop the pogrom. The Azerbaijanis have a custom: \nif a woman takes her scarf and throws it on the ground, the men are supposed \nto stop immediately. The old woman from the fourth entryway did that, but they\nstomped her scarf into the ground, pushed her off to the side, and said, \"If\nyou want to go on living, you'll disappear into your apartment.\" So she left.\nThat trick didn't work on them.\n\nEven the neighbors who helped us move told me, OK, fine, calm down, forget \nthat it happened. I said I'd only forget it if I told them right then that it\nhad happened to their daughter--and if that didn't have any effect on them, \nthen I would forget everything, too. Imagine that it happened to your sister. \nAnd no one did anything. Anything.\n\n April 25, 1988\n Yerevan\n\n\t\t\t- - - reference - - -\n\n[1] _The Sumgait Tragedy; Pogroms against Armenians in Soviet Azerbaijan,\n Volume I, Eyewitness Accounts_, edited by Samuel Shahmuradian, forward by\n Yelena Bonner, 1990, published by Aristide D. Caratzas, NY, pages 93-109\n", "\n\nYou don't get it - do you? During the years of World War I, the x-Soviet \nArmenian Government has planned and perpetrated the 'Genocide' of the \nMuslim people, which not only took the lives of 2.5 million Muslim people, \nbut was also the method used to empty the Turkish homeland of its inhabitants. \nTo this day, Turkish historic lands remain occupied by the x-Soviet Armenia. \nIn order to cover up the fact of its usurpation of the historic Turkish \nhomeland, which is the crux of Turkish political demands, fascist x-Soviet \nArmenia continues its anti-Turkish policy in the following ways:\n\n1. x-Soviet Armenia denies the historical fact of the Turkish Genocide\nin order to shift international public opinion away from its political\nresponsibility.\n\n2. x-Soviet Armenia, employing ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism and Revisionism \nTriangle, attempts to call into question the veracity of the Turkish \nGenocide.\n\n3. x-Soviet Armenia has also implemented state-sponsored terrorism through\nthe ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism and Revisionism Triangle in an attempt to \nsilence the Turkish people's vehement demands and protests.\n\n4. Using all its human, financial, and governmental resources, x-Soviet\nArmenia and its tools in the United States attempt to silence through\nterrorism, bribery and other subversive methods, non-Turkish supporters\nof the Turkish cause, be they political, governmental and humanitarian.\n\nUsing all the aforementioned methods, the x-Soviet Armenian Government \nis attempting to neutralize the international diplomatic community from\nmaking the Turkish Case a contemporary issue.\n\nYet despite the efforts of the x-Soviet Armenian Government and its \nterrorist and revisionist organizations, in the last decades, thanks \nto the struggle of those whose closest ones have been systematically \nexterminated by the Armenians, the international wall of silence on \nthis issue has begun to collapse, and consequently a number of \ngovernments and organizations have become supportive of the recognition \nof the Turkish Genocide.\n\nWith the full knowledge that the struggle for the Turkish territorial\ndemands are still in their initial stages, the Turkish and Kurdish people\nwill unflaggingly continue in this sacred struggle, therefore the victims\nof the Turkish Genocide demand:\n\n1. that the x-Soviet Armenian Government, as the heirs of the Armenian \nDictatorship, recognize the Turkish Genocide;\n\n2. that x-Soviet Armenia return the historic homeland to the Turkish and\nKurdish people;\n\n3. that the x-Soviet Armenian Government make material reparations for \ntheir heinous and unspeakable crime to the victims of the Turkish Genocide;\n\n4. that all world governments, and especially the United States, officially\nrecognize the Turkish Genocide and Turkish territorial rights and refuse\nto succumb to all Armenian political pressure;\n\n5. that the U.S. Government free itself from the friendly position it \nhas adopted towards its unreliable ally, x-Soviet Armenia, and officially \nrecognize the historical fact of the Turkish Genocide as well as be \nsupportive of the pursuit of Turkish territorial demands;\n\n6. that the x-Soviet Republics officially recognize the historical fact \nof the Turkish Genocide and include the cold-blooded extermination of \n2.5 million Muslim people in their history books.\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nYou can dream whatever you wish. We have demands from the Armenians.\nWith the Government of x-Soviet Armenia, we would sit down, go over\nall our outstanding issues, whether it's land or reparations or\nrecognition, whatever it is. We'd like to sit down and ask for it.\nBy all means, lands and properties were taken away from us and they\nshould be returned to the rightful owners, the Turkish and Kurdish \npeople, who were there 3,000 years, long before the Armenians ever\nshowed up in that area. Entire population of the region was subjected \nto genocide beyond belief; genocide which was planned to exterminate \nthe whole Turkish people of the region to the last man, woman and child. \nArmenians tortured and massacred millions of defenseless civilians. To \nassemble innocent civilians in the mosques and burn them in the buildings \nwas one of their methods. Even today the traveler in that region is seldom \nfree from the evidence of these Armenian crimes.\n\nIf you have the stomach, I would strongly recommend the following\nreferences on the Armenian genocide of the Muslims. Many more of them\nare also available in the 'Erzurum and Van Turkish Genocide Museums.'\n\n1. Neside Kerem Demir, \"Bir Sehid Anasina Tarihin Soyledikleri: \n Turkiye'nin Ermeni Meselesi,\" Hulbe Basim ve Yayin T.A.S., \n Ankara, 1982. \n\n2. Veysel Eroglu, \"Ermeni Mezalimi,\" Sebil Yayinevi, Istanbul, 1978.\n\n3. A. Alper Gazigiray, \"Osmanlilardan Gunumuze Kadar Vesikalarla Ermeni\n Teroru'nun Kaynaklari,\" Gozen Kitabevi, Istanbul, 1982.\n\n4. Dr. Kirzioglu M. Fahrettin, \"Kars Ili ve Cevresinde Ermeni Mezalimi,\"\n Kardes Matbaasi, Ankara, 1970. \n\nBut more than that. \n\nA Final Goodbye in Azerbaijan:\n\n[Photo by Associated Press]: \"At a cemetery in Agdam, Azerbaijan, family \nmembers and friends grieved during the burial of victims killed in the \nfighting in Nagorno-Karabagh. Chingiz Iskandarov, right, hugged the \ncoffin containing the remains of his brother, one of the victims. A copy \nof Koran lay atop the coffin.\"\nThe New York Times, 3/6/92\n\nFinal Embrace :\n\n[Photo by Associated Press]: \"Chingiz Iskenderov, right, weeps over \ncoffin holding the remains of his brother as other relatives grieve \nat an Azarbaijani cemetery yesterday amid burial of victims killed \nin fighting in Nagorno-Karabagh.\"\nThe Washington Post, 3/6/92\n\nNagorno-Karabagh Victims Buried in Azerbaijani Town :\n\n\"Refugees Claim Hundreds died in Armenian Attack...Of seven bodies seen \n here today, two were children and three were women, one shot through \n the chest at what appeared to be close range. Another 120 refugees \n being treated at Agdam's hospital include many with multiple stab \n wounds.\"\n Thomas Goltz\n The Washington Post, 2/28/92\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\n'SDPA.ORG' criminals/Nazis in action. Your fascist government got away with \nthe genocide of 2.5 million Turkish men, women and children and is enjoying \nthe fruits of that genocide. And your criminal organization will not get away \nwith the genocide's cover-up. In June 1915, a major uprising took place in \nSebinkarahisar under the leadership of the famous Nazi Boyadjian. The Moslem \ndistricts were burnt down. Hundreds of soldiers and gendarmerie were killed\nand hundreds of civilians also perished.\n\n Armenians first of all occupied the Talori region, which included \n the villages of Siner, Simai, Gulli-Guzat, Ahi, Hedenk, Sinank,\n Ekind, Effard, Musson, Etek, Akcesser. Leaving their wives, \n children and property in these inaccessible spots, the Armenians \n joined forces with other armed bands coming from the Silvan \n districts in the plain of Mus, after which the whole body of\n 3000 men gathered in the Andok Mt. Five or six hundred wished\n to surround Mus, and started off by attacking the Delican tribe to\n the south of the city. They slaughtered a number of the tribe and\n seized their goods. The religious beliefs of the Muslims who fell\n into their hands were derided and disparaged, and the Muslims\n themselves murdered in the most frightful manner. The rebels\n also attacked the regular troops in the vicinity of Mus, but the\n large numbers of the regular forces prevented them from\n occupying the city.\n\n The rebels joined the bandits in the Andok Mts., carrying out\n the most frightful massacres and looting among the tribes of the\n neighbourhood. They burned Omer Agha's nephew alive. They\n raped a number of Turkish women at a spot three or four hours'\n distance from Gulli-Guzat and then strangled them.\n\n At the beginning of August the rebels attacked the Faninar,\n Bekiran and Badikan tribes, perpetrating equally horrible\n atrocities. The rebels in the villages of Yermut and Ealigernuk in\n the nahiye of Cinan in the kaza of Cal attacked the Kurds in the\n neighbourhood, as well as the villages of Kaisser and Catcat.\n\n Towards the end of August, the Armenians attacked the\n Kurds in the vicinity of Mus and burned down three or four\n villages, including Gulli-Guzat. As for the 3000 rebels in Talori,\n they continued to spread death and destruction among the\n Muslims and other Christian communities, refusing to lay down\n their arms. \n\nSource: Uras, Esat: The Armenians in History. Documentary Publications \n(Istanbul), 1988.\n\np. 954.\n\n\"In his speech given at the Sivas Congress, Mustafa Kemal once again drew\n a picture of the country under occupation:\n\n In the East, the Armenians are making preparations for advancing to the\n River Halys (Kizilirmak), and have already started a policy of massacring\n the Moslem population.\"\n\n\npp. 966-967.\n\n\"The situation of the southern provinces of Turkey after the signing of the\n Mudros Armistice is described by Ataturk in his speech:\n\n The Armenians in the south, armed by foreign troops and encouraged by the\n protection they enjoyed, molested the Mohammedans of their district. They \n pursued a relentless policy of murder and extinction everywhere. This was \n responsible for the tragic incident at Maras....the Armenians had completely \n destroyed an old Mohammedan town like Maras by their artillery and \n machine-gun fire.\n\n They killed thousands of innocent and defenceless women and children. The\n Armenians were the instigators of the atrocities, which were unique in\n history. \n\n \nSource: Documents: Volume I (1919).\n \"Document No: 15,\" Archive No: 1/2, Cabin No: 113, Drawer \n No: 3, File No: 520, Section No: 2024, Contents No: 11-1; 11-3.\n (19 Feb 330 '4 March 1915', District Governor Kemal)\n\n\"List of male inhabitants of Mergehu Village murdered or annihilated \n with the utmost savagery by Armenians:\n\n Names\t\t\t\tMethod of Annihilation\n -----\t\t\t\t----------------------\nHaci Ibrahim, son of Abdi\tBullets and bayonet\nAbdi, son of Haci Ibrahim\tBullets and bayonet\nReso, son of Abdi\t\tBeaten and cut into pieces\nSado, son of Omer\t\tBeaten and cut into pieces\nAso, son of Reso\t\tBeaten and cut into pieces\nKulu, son of Canko\t\tStabbed in the eye with a bayonet\nMusa, son of Canko\t\tBayonet in his eye\nEmin, son of Molla Hamit\tBayonet in his eye\nMolla Abdullah, son of Hamit\tBayonet in his eye\nIbo, son of Haci\t\tBayonet in his eye\nSado, son of Haci\t\tBayonet in his eye\nAbdullah, son of Canko\t\tSlaughtered\nIbo, son of Ahmet\t\tAbdomen ripped open\nIsmail, son of Ibo\t\tBurnt in fire\nMusto, son of Ozu\t\tBullets\nMahmut, son of Seyyo\t\tSlaughtered\nKocak, son of Birro\t\tBullets\nMusto, son of Husnu\t\tBullets\nUso, son of Alo\t\t\tBullets\nMaksut, son of Peri\t\tBullets\nHaci, son of Peri\t\tBullets\nMehmet, son of Hasanali\t\tBayonet \nIbo, son of Hasanali\t \tBayonet\nAbdo, son of Mehmed\t\tBayonet\nMolla Suleyman\t\t\tBurnt in oven\nMazgi, son of Abdullah\t\tStabbed in abdomen by bayonet\nSulis, son of Hasan\t\tBullets\nMahmo, son of Mehmet\t\tStabbed with a dagger\nMurat, son of Hasan\t\tStabbed with a dagger\nUso, son of Avci\t\tBlinded with a bayonet\nLesko, son of Mehmet\t\tStabbed with a dagger\nAbdullah, son of Kasim\t\tBullets\nCoban Abdullah\t\t\tBullets\nSeymo, son of Mumin\t\tBullets \nMuammer, son of Reso\t\tBullets\nPaso, son of Merzi\t\tBullets\nGulu, son of Bitor\t\tBullets\nMurat, son of Yusuf\t\tBullets and bayonet\nCedo, son of Haci Ibrahim\tBullets and bayonet\nFaki Mehmet\t\t\tBullets and bayonet\nSilo, son of Abdulcebbar\tBullets and bayonet\n\n\n List of massacred females from the same village:\n\nKasi, daughter of Huso and \nwife of Haci Ibrahim\t\tBullets\nFati, daughter of Isa,\nwife of Aduz\t\t\tBullets\nZeresan, daughter of Amat,\nwife of Reso\t\t\tBayonet\nGullu, daughter of Iyso\t\tCutting off her breasts\nSulnu, daughter of Sulo,\tRipping open her abdomen and burning\nwife of Ibo\t\t\ther baby in oven\nFatma, daughter of Ibo \t\tSlaughtered and burnt in oven\nFidan hatun\t\t\tBurnt in oven\nGulfizar, daughter of Hacihan, \nwife of Musto\t\t\tSlaughtered\nRahime, daughter of Mehmet, \nwife of Halil\t\t\tBullets\nBinefs, daughter of Haci Kerim,\nwife of Suleyman\t\tBurnt in oven\nMahiye, daughter of Ali, \nwife of Sivno\t\t\tSlaughtered\nHati, daughter of Haci, \nwife of Ahmet \t\tSlaughtered\nHacer, daughter of Meho\t\tBullet and bayonet\n\n\n List of Females of the same village raped and murdered:\n\nNadire, daughter of Haci, wife of Suvis\nHani, daughter of Kulu, wife of Zerko\nZaliha, daughter of Telli, wife of Silo\nArap, daughter of Sami, wife of Hilo\n\n Wounded males and females of the same village:\n\n (a long list)\n\n List of massacred males and females at Istuci village:\n\nMikail, son of Alo\t\tBullets\nMusto, son of Ismail\t\tBullets\nDervis, son of Maksut\t\tBullets\nAli, son of Nimet\t\tBayonet\nEsat, son of Kelo\t\tBayonet and bullets\nIsa, son of Nebi\t\tBayonet and bullets\nCevher, son of Gani\t\tBeaten by rifle butt\nZiro, daughter of Hasan\t\tDied from injuries\nHazal, daughter of Ali, \nwife of Acem\t\t\tDied from injuries\nHamsa, daughter of Huseyin,\nwife of Huseyin\t\t\tDied from injuries\n\n \n List of raped women at Istuci village in life:\n\nSabo, daughter of Maho\t\tVirgin\nMiri, other daughter of Maho\tVirgin\nEmine, daughter of Meho, wife\nof Sofi Salih\nSahap, daughter of Ali, wife \nof Nevruz\nGullu, daughter of Mahi\t\tVirgin\n\n\n List of persons attacked by Armenian gangs:\n\n (a long list)\"\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nPardon me? Your ignorance cramps my conversation. Although the administrative \nmechanism was a strictly centralized one, the Ottoman Empire 'was a classical \nexample of a pluralist social order.' The 'millet system' was the mechanism \nwhich shaped the social order of the multi-national Ottoman Empire and stood \nbehind its continuity. As a matter of fact, because Islamic principles \nwere in force in the Ottoman Empire, it was natural to use religious \ncriteria to differentiate among the various communities which constituted \nthe Empire. The 'millet' system began to be based on ethnicity in the \n19th century under the influence of nationalism. Sousa writes of the \nexistence of thirteen communities in the Ottoman Empire in addition to \nthe Muslim 'millet' in 1914. These were: (1) Greeks attached to the \nOrthodox Patriarchate in Istanbul; (2) Catholics or Latins who were \nremnants of Genoese and Venetian merchants; (3) Gregorian Armenians \nattached to a Patriarchate in Istanbul; (4) Catholic Armenians; (5) Syrian \nCatholics attached to a Patriarchate in Mardin; (6) Chaldean Catholics \nattached to a Patriarchate in Mosul; (7) Syrian Jacobites attached to a \nPatriarchate in Mardin; (8) Protestants; (9) Melchites attached to a \nPatriarchate in Damascus; (10) Hebrews of two rites; (11) Bulgarian \nCatholics attached to the Bulgarian Exarch; (12) Maronites; and (13) \nNestorians.[1] Scholars who studied the pluralistic social structure \noutlined briefly above, concluded that the social order of the Ottoman \nEmpire fit the framework of the 'Mosaics Theory.'[2] \n\n[1] N. Sousa, \"The Capitulatory Regime of Turkey, its History, Origin and\n Nature,\" (Baltimore, 1933).\n[2] C. S. Coon, Caravan: \"The Story of the Middle East,\" (New York, 1951),\n p. 162 and H. A. R. Gibb/H. Bowen, \"Islamic Society and the West: A\n Study of the Impact of Western Civilization on Moslem Culture in the\n Near East,\" (Oxford, 1951).\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "04/19/1993 0000 Lezghis Astir\n\nBy NEJLA SAMMAKIA\n Associated Press Writer\n \nGUSSAR, Azerbaijan (AP) -- The 600,000 Lezghis of Azerbaijan and Russia have\nbegun clamoring for their own state, threatening turmoil in a tranquil corner \nof the Caucasus.\n\nThe region has escaped the ethnic warfare of neighboring Nagorno-Karabakh,\nAbkhazia and Ossetia, but Lezhgis could become the next minority in the former\nSoviet Union to fight for independence.\n\nLezghis, who are Muslim descendents of nomadic shepherds, are angry about the\nconscription of their young men to fight in Azerbaijan's 5-year-old undeclared\nwar with Armenia.\n\nThey also want to unite the Lezghi regions of Azerbaijan and Russia, which\nwere effectively one until the breakup of the Soviet Union created national\nborders that had been only lines on a map.\n\nA rally of more than 3,000 Lezghis in March to protest conscription and\ndemand a separate \"Lezghistan\" alarmed the Azerbaijani government.\n\nOfficials in Baku, the capital, deny rumors that police shot six\ndemonstrators to death. But the government announced strict security measures\nand began cooperating with Russian authorities to control the movement of\nLezhgis living across the border in the Dagestan region of Russia.\n\nVisitors to Gussar, the center of Lezhgi life, found the town quiet soon\nafter the protest. Children played outdoors in the crisp mountain air.\n\nAt the Sunday bazaar, men in heavy coats and dark fur hats gathered to\ndiscuss grievances ranging from high customs duties at the Russian border to a\nwar they say is not theirs.\n\n\"I have been drafted, but I won't go,\" said Shamil Kadimov, gold teeth\nglinting in the sun. \"Why must I fight a war for the Azerbaijanis? I have\nnothing to do with Armenia.\"\n\nMore than 3,000 people have died in the war, which centers on the disputed\nterritory of Nagorno-Karabakh, about 150 miles to the southeast.\n\nMalik Kerimov, an official in the mayor's office, said only 11 of 300 locals\ndrafted in 1992 had served.\n\n\"The police don't force people to go,\" he said. \"They are afraid of an\nuprising that could be backed by Lezghis in Dagestan.\"\n\nAll the men agreed that police had not fired at the demonstrators, but\ndisagreed on how the protest came about.\n\nSome said it occurred spontaneously when rumors spread that Azerbaijan was\nabout to draft 1,500 men from the Gussar region, where 75,000 Lezghis live.\n\nOthers said the rally was ordered by Gen. Muhieddin Kahramanov, leader of the\nLezhgi underground separatist movement, Sadval, based in Dagestan.\n\n\"We organized the demonstration when families came to us distraught about\ndraft orders,\" said Kerim Babayev, a mathematics teacher who belongs to Sadval.\n\n\"We hope to reunite peacefully, by approaching everyone -- the Azerbaijanis, \nthe Russians.\"\n\nIn the early 18th century, the Lezhgis formed two khanates, or sovereignties,\nin what are now Azerbaijan and Dagestan. They roamed freely with their sheep\nover the green hills and mountains between the two khanates.\n\nBy 1812, the Lezghi areas were joined to czarist Russia. After 1917, they\ncame under Soviet rule. With the disintegration of the Soviet Union, the \n600,000 Lezghis were faced for the first time with strict borders.\n\nAbout half remained in Dagestan and half in newly independent Azerbaijan.\n\n\"We have to pay customs on all this, on cars, on wine,\" complained Mais\nTalibov, a small trader. His goods, laid out on the ground at the bazaar,\nincluded brandy, stomach medication and plastic shoes from Dagestan.\n\n\"We want our own country,\" he said. \"We want to be able to move about easily.\nBut Baku won't listen to us.\"\n\nPhysically, it is hard for outsiders to distinguish Lezhgis from other\nAzerbaijanis. In many villages, they live side by side, working at the same \njobs and intermarrying to some degree.\n\nBut the Lezhgis have a distinctive language, a mixture of Arabic, Turkish and\nPersian with strong guttural vowels.\n\nAzerbaijan officially supports the cultural preservation of its 10 largest\nethnic minorities. The Lezghis have weekly newspapers and some elementary \nschool classes in their language.\n\nAutonomy is a different question. If the Lezghis succeeded in separating from\nAzerbaijan, they would set a precedent for other minorities, such as the \nTalish in the south, the Tats in the nearby mountains and the Avars of eastern\nAzerbaijan.\n\n\n\n", "\n[KK] Bugunlerde \"jewish jokes\" muhabbetlerinden esinlenerek sunu\n[KK] yazayim dedim.\n[KK]\n[KK] \"Israel was able to divert the Jewish lobby from the Greeks,\n[KK] for example, by persuading it that supporting the Armenian\n[KK] resolution which came before the Senate in February 1990\n[KK] could help sour Turco-Israeli relations. In addition, the\n[KK] Israeli embassy in Washington was active in ensuring that the\n[KK] resolution failed, for instance by assisting Turkish Jews to\n[KK] travel to Wahington to underline the affinity between Israel\n[KK] and Turkey.\n[KK]\n[KK] There was no doubt about the debt which Turkey felt it owed\n[KK] to Israel over this matter. Even four months before the re-\n[KK] solution came up for consideration, as enior member of the\n[KK] Turkish Foreign Ministry said his country was \"very grateful\"\n[KK] to Israel, the cooperation, in his view, refelecting the \n[KK] maturity of the bilateral relationship. The experience over\n[KK] the Armenian issue has convinced senior figures in Turkey\n[KK] that the pro-Israel network in Washington can indeed deliver\n[KK] the desired results.\n[KK]\n[KK]\t[Robins Philip, \"Turkey and the Middle East\" 1991 Chathm House\n[KK]\t Papers. p.\n[KK]\n[KK] papers p.84]\n\n\n[KK] got to go now\n\nNot so fast! You have a rather warped sense of logic! You are telling us that\nbecause Israel wishes to have good relations with Turkey even at the expense\nof Armenians or Armenia, makes it bad for Turks to tell racist jokes against \nJews. Thus, we can infer, if Israel had poor relations with Turkey, it would\nbe alright to post such horrible jokes against Jews! \n\nYou impress nobody.\n\n", "\n\nStill living in an alternate universe? Numerous articles in major newspapers \n(London Times) and periodicals (Newsweek) during the war, had suggested \nthe existence of a significant collaboration between Armenians and the \nNazis. Arthur Derounian deserves credit for being the first person to \ndeal with this issue extensively. Derounian's motives were twofold: his \ndeeply held democratic convictions gave him a sense of duty and he felt \nobliged to shed light on this yet another dark chapter of Armenian history.\nConcurrently, Derounian embarked on what one would call 'crisis control' \nor face-saving. In order to forestall any potential attacks on the larger \nArmenian community in the United States, he marginalized collaboration \nas deplorable but insignificant.[1]\n\n[1] John Roy Carlson (real name Arthur Derounian), 'The Plotters,'\n E. P. Dutton & Company, Inc., New York 1946, p. 182.\n\n\n Source: \"Mitteilungsblatt, Berlin, December 1939, Nr. 2 and 5-6\"\n\n Yet another historical fact: a fact that for years has been deliberately \n forgotten, concealed, and wiped from memory - the fact of Armenian-Nazi \n collaboration.\n\n A magazine called Mitteilungsblatt der Deutsch-Armenischen Gesselschaft\n is the clearest and most definite proof of this collaboration. The \n magazine was first published in Berlin in 1938 during Nazi rule of Germany\n and continued publication until the end of 1944. Even the name of the\n magazine, which implies a declaration of Armenian-Nazi cooperation,\n is attention-getting.\n\n This magazine, every issue of which proves the collaboration, is historically\n important as documentary evidence. It is a heap of writing that should be\n an admonition to world opinion and to all mankind. \n\n In Nazi Germany, Armenians were considered to be an Aryan race and certain\n political, economic, and social rights were thus granted to them. They \n occupied positions in public service and were partners in Nazi practices.\n The whole world of course knows what awaited those who were not considered \n \"Aryan\" and what befell them.\n\nNow wait, there is more.\n\nSource: \"From Sardarapat to Sevres and Lausanne\" by Avetis Aharonian. The \nArmenian Review, Vol. 16, No. 3-63, Autumn, Sep. 1963, pp. 47-57.\n\np. 52 (second paragraph).\n\n\"Your three chiefs, Dro, Hamazasp and Kulkhandanian are the ringleaders\n of the bands which have destroyed Tartar villages and have staged \n massacres in Zangezour, Surmali, Etchmiadzin, and Zangibasar. This is\n intolerable. Look - and here he pointed to a file of official documents\n on the table - look at this, here in December are the reports of the last\n few months concerning ruined Tartar villages which my representative\n Wardrop has sent me. The official Tartar communique speaks of the\n destruction of 300 villages.\"\n\n\np. 54 (fifth paragraph).\n\n\"Yes, of course. I repeat, until this massacre of the Tartars is stopped\n and the three chiefs are not removed from your military leadership I\n hardly think we can supply you arms and ammunition.\"\n\n\"...it is the armed bands led by Dro, Hamazasp and Kulkhandanian who\n during the past months have raided and destroyed many Tartar villages in\n the regions of Surmali, Etchmiadzin, Zangezour, and Zangibasar. There are\n official charges of massacres.\"\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n[KK] david\n\nYes?\n\n[KK] give it a rest. will you ???\n\nNo.\n\n[KK] it is increasingly becoming very annoying...\n\nBarbarism is rather annoying for you, now isn't it, especially when it comes \nfrom from a country, Azerbaijan, that claims Turkey as its number one ally, \nprotector, and mentor!\n\n", "12/12 Armenian Atrocities \n\n MOSCOW (AP) -- Azerbaijani forces on Saturday retook\nthree villages seized by Armenians and discovered 16 bodies\nof executed civilians, Azerbaijani reports said.\n The Azerbaijani fighters found 16 bodies of civilians,\nincluding those of a child and two elderly women who were\nshot point-blank, \"and survivors were killed by a shot to\nthe back of the head,\" said a ministry statement, carried by\nthe Azerbaijani Azerinform and Turan news agencies and the\nITAR-Tass news service.\n \"Everywhere Armenian occupants were, they left tens of\ncorpses of civilians shot to death point-blank and\nmutilated,\" the... \n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nRadiating from someone who is incapable of providing a single scholarly\nsource on his 'genocide apology program', it is rather amusing. Again,\nwhere is your non-existent list of scholars and scholarly sources?\nHere is mine:\n\n\"An appropriate analogy with the Jewish Holocaust might be the\n systematic extermination of the entire Muslim population of \n the independent republic of Armenia which consisted of at \n least 30-40 percent of the population of that republic. The \n memoirs of an Armenian army officer who participated in and \n eye-witnessed these atrocities was published in the U.S. in\n 1926 with the title 'Men Are Like That.' Other references abound.\"\n (Rachel A. Bortnick - The Jewish Times - June 21, 1990)\n\n\n \"In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.\n It is in our power to tear away the veil of illusion that some of us\n create for ourselves. It certainly is possible to severe the artificial\n life-support system of an imagined 'ethnic purity' that some of us\n falsely trust as the only structure that can support their heart beats \n in this alien land.\"\n (Sahak Melkonian - 1920 - \"Preserving the Armenian purity\") \n\n\n \"The crime of systematic cleansing by mass killing and extermination \n of the Muslim population in Soviet Republic of Armenia, Karabag, \n Bosnia and Herzegovina is an 'Islamic Holocaust' comparable to the \n extermination of 2.5 million Muslims by the Armenian Government \n during the WWI and of over 6 million European Jews during the WWII.\"\n (Tovfik Kasimov - Azeri Leader - September 25, 1992)\n \n\n \"Today's ethnic cleansing policies by the Serbian dictatorship against\n Croatians and Muslims of Yugoslavia, as well as the Soviet Republic\n of Armenia's against the Muslim population of neighboring Azerbaijan,\n are really no different in their aspirations than the genocide \n perpetrated by the Armenian Government 78 years ago against the\n Turkish and Kurdish Muslims and Sephardic Jews living in these\n lands.\" (Cebbar Leygara - Kurdish Leader - October 13, 1992)\n\n\n\nSOME OF THE REFERENCES FROM EMINENT AUTHORS IN THE FIELD OF MIDDLE-EASTERN\nHISTORY AND EYEWITNESSES OF THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE OF 2.5 MILLION MUSLIMS\n\n1. \"The Armenian Revolutionary Movement\" by Louise Nalbandian,\n University of California Press, Berkeley, Los Angeles, 1975\n\n2. \"Diplomacy of Imperialism 1890-1902\" by William I. Lenger, Professor\n of History, Harward University, Boston, Alfred A. Knopt, New York, 1951\n\n3. \"Turkey in Europe\" by Sir Charles Elliot, \n Edward & Arnold, London, 1900\n\n4. \"The Chatnam House Version and Other Middle-Eastern Studies\" by\n Elie Kedouri, Praeger Publishers, New York, Washington, 1972\n\n5. \"The Rising Crescent\" by Ernest Jackh,\n Farrar & Reinhart, Inc., New York & Toronto, 1944\n\n6. \"Spiritual and Political Evolutions in Islam\" by Felix Valyi,\n Mogan, Paul, Trench & Truebner & Co., London, 1925\n\n7. \"The Struggle for Power in Moslem Asia\" by E. Alexander Powell,\n The Century Co., New York, London, 1924\n\n8. \"Struggle for Transcaucasia\" by Feruz Kazemzadeh,\n Yale University Press, New Haven, Conn., 1951\n\n9. \"History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey\" (2 volumes) by\n Stanford J. Shaw, Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, New York,\n Melbourne, 1977\n\n10.\"The Western Question in Greece and Turkey\" by Arnold J. Toynbee,\n Constable & Co., Ltd., London, Bombay & Sydney, 1922\n\n11.\"The Caliph's Last Heritage\" by Sir Mark Sykes,\n Macmillan & Co., London, 1915\n\n12.\"Men Are Like That\" by Leonard A. Hartill,\n Bobbs Co., Indianapolis, 1928\n\n13.\"Adventures in the Near East, 1918-22\" by A. Rawlinson,\n Dodd, Meade & Co., 1925\n\n14.\"World Alive, A Personal Story\" by Robert Dunn,\n Crown Publishers, Inc., New York, 1952\n\n15.\"From Sardarapat to Serves and Lousanne\" by Avetis Aharonian,\n The Armenian Review Magazine, Volume 15 (Fall 1962) through 17 \n (Spring 1964)\n\n16.\"Armenia on the Road to Independence\" by Richard G. Hovanessian,\n University of California Press, Berkeley, California, 1967\n\n17.\"The Rebirth of Turkey\" by Clair Price,\n Thomas Seltzer, New York, 1923\n\n18.\"Caucasian Battlefields\" by W. B. Allen & Paul Muratoff,\n Cambridge, 1953\n\n19.\"Partition of Turkey\" by Harry N. Howard,\n H. Fertig, New York, 1966\n \n20.\"The King-Crane Commission\" by Harry N. Howard,\n Beirut, 1963\n\n21.\"United States Policy and Partition of Turkey\" by Laurence Evans,\n John Hopkins University Press, Baltimore, 1965\n\n22.\"British Documents Related to Turkish War of Independence\" by Gothard \n Jaeschke\n \n1. Neside Kerem Demir, \"Bir Sehid Anasina Tarihin Soyledikleri: \n Turkiye'nin Ermeni Meselesi,\" Hulbe Basim ve Yayin T.A.S., \n Ankara, 1982. (Ingilizce Birinci Baski: 1980, \"The Armenian \n Question in Turkey\")\n\n2. Veysel Eroglu, \"Ermeni Mezalimi,\" Sebil Yayinevi, Istanbul, 1978.\n\n3. A. Alper Gazigiray, \"Osmanlilardan Gunumuze Kadar Vesikalarla Ermeni\n Teroru'nun Kaynaklari,\" Gozen Kitabevi, Istanbul, 1982.\n\n4. Dr. Kirzioglu M. Fahrettin, \"Kars Ili ve Cevresinde Ermeni Mezalimi,\"\n Kardes Matbaasi, Ankara, 1970. \n\nT.C. Basbakanlik Osmanli Arsivi, Babiali, Istanbul:\n\na) Yildiz Esas Evraki\nb) Yildiz Perakende\nc) Irade Defterleri\nd) Cemaat-i Gayr-i Muslime Defterleri\ne) Meclisi Vukela Mazbatalari\nf) Dahiliye Nezareti, Kalem-i Mahsus Dosyalari\ng) Dahiliye Nezareti, Sifre Defterleri\nh) Babiali Evrak Odasi: Siyasi Kartonlar\ni) Babiali Evrak Odasi: Muhimme Kartonlari\n\nT.C. Disisleri Bakanligi, Hazine-i Evrak, Defterdarlik \n\na) Harb-i Umumi\nb) Muteferrik Kartonlar\n\nBritish Archives:\n\na) Parliamentary Papers (Hansard): Commons/Lords\nb) Foreign Office: Confidential Print: Various Collections\nc) Foreign Office: 424/239-253: Turkey: Correspondence - Annual Reports\nd) Foreign Office: 608\ne) Foreign Office: 371, Political Intelligence: General Correspondence\nf) Foreign Office: 800/240, Ryan Papers\ng) Foreign Office: 800/151, Curzon Papers\nh) Foreign Office: 839: The Eastern Conference: Lausanne. 53 files\n\nIndia Office Records and Library, Blackfriars Road, London.\n\na) L/Political and Security/10/851-855 (five boxes), \"Turkey: Treaty of\n Peace: 1918-1923\"\nb) L/P & S/10/1031, \"Near East: Turkey and Greece: Lausanne Conference,\n 1921-1923\"\nc) L/P & S/11/154\nd) L/P & S/11/1031\n\nFrench Archives\n\nArchives du ministere des Affaires entrangeres, Quai d'Orsay, Paris.\n\na) Documents Diplomatiques: Affaires Armeniens: 1895-1914 Collections\nb) Guerre: 1914-1918: Turquie: Legion d'Orient.\nc) Levant, 1918-1929: Armenie.\n\n\nOfficial Publications, Published Documents, Diplomatic Correspondence,\nAgreements, Minutes and Others\n\nA. Turkey (The Ottoman Empire and The Republic of Turkey)\n\nAkarli, E. (ed.); \"Belgelerle Tanzimat,\" (istanbul, 1978).\n(Gn. Kur., ATASE); \"Askeri Tarih Belgeleri Dergisi,\" V. XXXI (81),\n(Dec. 1982).\n----; \"Askeri Tarih Belgeleri Dergisi,\" V. XXXII (83),\n(Dec. 1983).\nHocaoglu, M. (ed.); \"Ittihad-i Anasir-i Osmaniye Heyeti Nizamnamesi,\"\n(Istanbul, 1912).\nMeray, S. L. (trans./ed.) \"Lozan Baris Konferansi: Tutanaklar-Belgeler,\"\n(Ankara, 1978), 2 vols.\nMeray, S. L./O. Olcay (ed.); \"Osmanli Imparatorlugu'nun Cokus Belgeleri;\nMondros Birakismasi, Sevr Andlasmasi, Ilgili Belgeler,\" (Ankara, 1977).\n(Osmanli Devleti, Dahiliye Nezareti); \"Aspirations et Agissements \nRevolutionnaires des Comites Armeniens avant et apres la proclamation\nde la Constitution Ottomane,\" (Istanbul, 1917).\n----; \"Ermeni Komitelerinin Amal ve Hareket-i Ihtilaliyesi: Ilan-i\nMesrutiyetten Evvel ve Sonra,\" (Istanbul, 1916).\n----; \"Idare-i Umumiye ve Vilayet Kanunu,\" (Istanbul, 1913).\n----; \"Muharrerat-i Umumiye Mecmuasi, V. I (Istanbul, 1914).\n----; \"Muharrerat-i Umumiye Mecmuasi, V. II (Istanbul, 1915).\n----; \"Muharrerat-i Umumiye Mecmuasi, V. III (Istanbul, 1916).\n----; \"Muharrerat-i Umumiye Mecmuasi, V. IV (Istanbul, 1917).\n(Osmanli Devleti, Hariciye Nezareti); \"Imtiyazat-i Ecnebiyye'nin\nLagvindan Dolayi Memurine Teblig Olunacak Talimatname,\" (Istanbul, 1915).\n(Osmanli Devleti, Harbiye Nezareti); \"Islam Ahalinin Ducar Olduklari\nMezalim Hakkinda Vesaike Mustenid Malumat,\" (Istanbul, 1919).\n----; (IV. Ordu) \"Aliye Divan-i Harbi Orfisinde Tedkik Olunan Mesele-yi\nSiyasiye Hakkinda Izahat,\" (Istanbul, 1916).\nTurkozu, H. K. (ed.); \"Osmanli ve Sovyet Belgeleriyle Ermeni Mezalimi,\"\n(Ankara, 1982).\n----; \"Turkiye Buyuk Millet Meclisi Gizli Celse Zabitlari,\" (Ankara, 1985),\n4 vols.\n\nRussia\n\nAdamof, E. E. (ed.); \"Sovyet Devlet Arsivi Belgeleriyle Anadolu'nun \nTaksimi Plani,\" (tran. H. Rahmi, ed. H. Mutlucag), (Istanbul, 1972).\n\nAltinay, A. R.; \"Iki Komite - Iki Kital,\" (Istanbul, 1919).\n----; \"Kafkas Yollarinda Hatiralar ve Tahassusler,\" (Istanbul, 1919).\n----; \"Turkiye'de Katolik Propagandasi,\" Turk tarihi Encumeni Mecmuasi,\nV. XIV/82-5 (Sept. 1924).\nAsaf Muammer; \"Harb ve Mesulleri,\" (Istanbul, 1918).\nAkboy, C.; \"Birinci Dunya Harbinde Turk Harbi, V. I: Osmanli Imparatorlugu'nun\nSiyasi ve Askeri Hazirliklari ve Harbe Girisi,\" (Gn. Kur., Ankara, 1970).\nAkgun, S.; \"General Harbord'un Anadolu Gezisi ve (Ermeni Meselesi'ne Dair)\nRaporu: Kurtulus Savasi Baslangicinda,\" (Istanbul, 1981).\nAkin, I.; \"Turk Devrim Tarihi,\" (Istanbul, 1983).\nAksin, S.; \"Jon Turkler ve Ittihad ve Terakki,\" (Istanbul, 1976).\nBasar, Z. (ed.);\"Ermenilerden Gorduklerimiz,\" (Ankara, 1974).\n----; \"Ermeniler Hakkinda Makaleler - Derlemeler,\" (Ankara, 1978).\nBelen, F.; \"Birinci Dunya Harbinde Turk Harbi,\" (Ankara, 1964).\nDeliorman, A.; \"Turklere Karsi Ermeni Komitecileri,\" (Istanbul, 1980).\nEge, N. N. (ed.); \"Prens Sabahaddin: Hayati ve Ilmi Mudafaalari,\"\n(Istanbul, 1977).\nErcikan, A.; \"Ermenilerin Bizans ve Osmanli Imparatorluklarindaki Rolleri,\"\n(Ankara, 1949).\nGurun, K.; 'Ermeni Sorunu yahut bir sorun nasil yaratilir?', \"Turk Tarihinde\nErmeniler Sempozyumu,\" (Izmir, 1983).\nHocaoglu, M.; \"Arsiv Vesikalariyla Tarihte Ermeni Mezalimi ve Ermeniler,\"\n(Istanbul, 1976).\nKaral, E. S.; \"Osmanli Tarihi,\" V. V (1983, 4th ed.); V. VI (1976, 2nd ed.);\nV. VII (1977, 2nd ed.); V. VIII (1983, 2nd ed.) Ankara.\nKurat, Y. T.; \"Osmanli Imparatorlugu'nun Paylasilmasi,\" (Ankara, 1976).\nOrel, S./S. Yuca; \"Ermenilerce Talat Pasa'ya Atfedilen Telgraflarin\nIcyuzu,\" (Ankara, 1983). [Also in English translation.]\nAhmad, F.; \"The Young Turks: The Committee of Union and Progress in\nTurkish Politics,\" (Oxford, 1969).\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nWell, it did not take long to see how consequent some Greeks are in\nrequesting that Thessaloniki are not called Solun by Bulgarian netters. \nSo, Napoleon, why do you write about Konstantinople and not Istanbul?", "Yarn of Cargo of Human Bones [1]\n\t\n\t\tCopyright, 1924, by the New York Times Company\n\t\t\tSpecial Cable to The New York Times\n\n PARIS, Dec 22, -- Marseilles is excited by a weird story of the arrival in\nthat port of a ship flying the British flag and named Zan carrying a\nmysterious cargo of 400 tons of human bones consigned to manufacturers there.\nThe bones are said to have been loaded at Mudania on the Sea of Marmora and\nto be the remains of the victims of massacres in Asia Minor. In view of the\nrumors circulating it is expected that an inquiry will be instigated.\n\n\t\t\t- - - Reference - - -\n\n[1] _New York Times_, December 23, 1924, page 3, column 2 (bottom)\n\n\t\t\t- - - - - - - - - - - -\n\nOn the 78th Commemorative Anniversary of the Turkish genocide of the Armenians,\nwe remember those whose only crime was to be Armenian in the shadow of an \nemerging Turkish proto-fascist state. In their names we demand justice.\n\nIn April 1915, the Turkish government began a systematically executed \nde-population of the eastern Anatolian homeland of the Armenians through a \ngenocidal extermination. This genocide was to insure that Turks exclusively\nruled over the geographic area today called the Republic of Turkey. The \nresult: 1.5 million murdered, 30 billion dollars of Armenian property stolen\nand plundered. This genocide ended nearly 3,000 years of Armenian civilization\non those lands. Today, the Turkish government continues to scrape clean any\nvestige of a prior Armenian existence on those lands. Today's Turkish\ngovernmental policy is to re-write the history of the era, to manufacture\ndistortion and generate excuses for their genocide of the Armenian people. In \nthe face of refutation ad nauseam, the Turkish Historical Society and cronies \nshamelessly continue to deny that any such genocide occurred. This policy \nmerely demonstrates that in the modern era, genocide is an effective state \npolicy when it remains un-redressed and un-punished. A crime unpunished is a \ncrime encouraged. Adolf Hitler took this cue less than 25 years after the \nsuccessful genocide of the Armenians.\n\nTurkey claims there was no systematic deportation of Armenians, yet...\nArmenians were removed from every city, town, and village in the whole of \nTurkey! Armenians who resisted deportation and massacre are referred to as \n\"rebels\".\n\nTurkey claims there was no genocide of the Armenians, yet...Turkish population\nfigures today show zero Armenians in eastern Turkey, the Armenian homeland.\n\nTurkey claims Armenians were always a small minority, yet...Turkey claims \nArmenians were a \"threat\".\n\nIn a final insult to the victims, the Republic of Turkey sold the bones of \napproximately 100,000 murdered Armenians for profit to Europe.\n\nToday, the Turkish government is enjoying the fruits of that genocide. The\nsuccess of this genocide is hangs over the heads of Turkey's Kurdish\npopulation.\n\nThe Armenians demand recognition, reparation, return of Armenian land and\nproperty lost as a result of this genocide.\n\nARMENIANS DEMAND JUSTICE ERMENILER ADALET ISTIYOR\n\n", "\n\nIs this the joke of the month? \n\n1. Your fascist grandparents exterminated 2.5 million Muslim people\nbetween 1914 and 1920.\n\n2. Your Nazi parents fully participated in the extermination of the\nEuropean Jewry during WWII.\n\n3. Your criminal cousins have been slaughtering Muslim women, children\nand elderly people in fascist x-Soviet Armenia and Karabag for the last \nfour years.\n\nThe entire population of x-Soviet Armenia now, as a result of the \nGenocide of 2.5 million Muslim people, are Armenians. \n\nFor nearly one thousand years, the Turkish and Kurdish people \nlived on their homeland - the last one hundred under the \noppressive Soviet and Armenian occupation. The persecutions\nculminated in 1914: The Armenian Government planned and carried \nout a Genocide against its Muslim subjects. 2.5 million Turks \nand Kurds were murdered and the remainder driven out of their \nhomeland. After one thousand years, Turkish and Kurdish lands \nwere empty of Turks and Kurds. \n\nThe survivors found a safe heaven in Turkiye.\n\nToday, x-Soviet Armenian government rejects the right of Turks and \nKurds to return to their Muslim lands occupied by x-Soviet Armenia.\n\nToday, x-Soviet Armenian government covers up the genocide perpetrated \nby its predecessors and is therefore an accessory to this crime against \nhumanity.\n\nx-Soviet Armenian government must pay for their crime of genocide \nagainst the Muslims by admitting to the crime and making reparations \nto the Turks and Kurds.\n\nTurks and Kurds demand the right to return to their lands, to determine \ntheir own future as a nation in their own homeland.\n\nDuring the 78th Anniversary, we come once again reiterate the\nunity of the Muslim People, the timelessness of the Turkish\nand Kurdish Demands and the desire to pursue the struggle\nfor that restitution - a struggle that unites all Turks and Kurds.\n\nToday, we appeal to all Turkish and Kurdish people in the United \nStates and Canada to participate en masse in the Commemorative \nEvents, be they cultural, political or religious.\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "Thompson Schreiber) posted:\n \n[PTS] ARMENIA AND AZERBAIJAN: TWO VIEWS\n[PTS] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n[PTS] Washington Report On Middle East Affairs\n[PTS] April/May 1993, Vol. XI, No. 9\n[PTS] \n[PTS] ----------------------------------------------------------------------\n[PTS] \n[PTS] \n[PTS] Life Under Blockade In Yerevan\n[PTS] ------------------------------\n[PTS] By Nancy Najarian\n \nMs. Najarian wrote on her personal observations. If somebody wishes to\ncounter the reality she described, fine. \n \n[PTS] ----------------------------------------------------------------------\n[PTS] \n[PTS] \n[PTS] The Conflict Over Nagorno-Karabakh: An Azeri Perspective\n[PTS] --------------------------------------------------------\n[PTS] By Alec Rasizade\n[PTS] \n[PTS] \n\n[AR] Western readers have learned of the Nagorno (Upper) Karabakh\n[AR] controversy through reports from that remote area by Western\n[AR] correspondents and from commentaries by member of the long-established\n[AR] Armenian-American community. Azeri views on this dispute have\n[AR] appeared rarely if at all in the Western news media. Therefore let me\n[AR] present _Washington Report_ readers with some basic truths about the\n[AR] origins of the conflict.\n\nDuring the past two years, if one reads all the commentaries on the subject,\na small minority of the writers have been Armenia or Azeri.\n\nThe following should be interesting. \n\n[AR] Armenian leaders claim that Azerbaijan was the first to oppress and\n[AR] expel the Armenian minority from the Azerbaijani Republic. Actually,\n[AR] the initiative to banish the Azeri minority and convert the Armenian\n[AR] Republic into a homogeneous state began in the winter of 1987-1988,\n[AR] when 165,000 Azeris were driven out of Armenia. Following that move,\n[AR] there were massacres of Armenians in the Azerbaijani cities of Sumgait\n[AR]in February 1988 and two years later, in Baku in January 1990.\n\nThis not true. Other than simply checking the newspapers, I will quote from an\nindependent human rights report. In the _PAX Cristi Netherlands_, 29 September\n1991, page 28, we read:\n\n \"By mid-november, many incidents took place in several places in\n Azerbaijan. The APF [Azeri Popular Front] challenged the Communist Party\n for power. ... After ten days, the authorities came in with tanks to\n reimpose their power. In Nakhitchevan, the last Armenian villages were\n deported. In Ganja, Armenians were attacked and killed. All 40,000 \n Armenian inhabitants fled the city...\"\n\n Between 22 November and 8 December 1988, refugees from Ganja arrived in\n Armenia while all 167,000 Azeris in Armenia were chased away.\"\n\nIn this part of the world February 1988 [start of organized anti-Armenian \npogroms in Azerbaijan] come before November and December of 1988!\n\n[AR] Azeri parliamentary committees have compiled evidence indicating that\n[AR] both events were inspired from Moscow to secure Russian imperial rule\n[AR] in the Transcaucasus, according to the Roman principle of \"divide and\n[AR] rule.\" Similar conspiracies are evident throughout the five-year\n[AR] history of the conflict.\n\nIt is interesting that the Azeris killed, burnt, raped the Armenians but the\nperpetrators blame Russians, and Armenians themselves on other occasions.\n \n[AR] Each time the parties have been about to reach an agreement (in\n[AR] Zheleznovodsk, Moscow, Tehran, Rome, Geneva and Alma-Ata), an\n[AR] invisible hand provoked further bloodshed. Those interested in\n[AR] maintaining the Azeri-Armenian conflict, as well as the Georgian\n[AR] turmoil, are imperialist forces in Russia, and probably in Iran.\n\nIncorrect! When were the people of Nagorno-Karabakh ever involved in an\nagreement? Never. Until Azerbaijan sits down with the Armenians of Nagorno-\nKarabakh there will never be an end to this conflict.\n \n[AR] The Armenian offensive last spring created more than 100,000 new Azeri\n[AR] refugees from the captured towns of Upper and Lower Karabakh and\n[AR] adjacent rural districts. Today 500,000 Azeri refugees throng the\n[AR] city of Baku and environs, providing more problems for the newly\n[AR] elected Popular Front government, which is opposed by the rigidly\n[AR] nationalistic National Independence Party.\n \nIt's called war. If the Azerbaijanis didn't try to deport and allow the \nArmenians of Nagorno-Karabakh to live in their ways, keep their Armenian\nculture, these Armenians would not have had to defend their existence. The\nAzeris should not have assumed that Armenians were going to roll over and\nplay dead. \n\n[AR] How can a Western-style democracy survive in a small Muslim country\n[AR] where 1 million of the 7 million inhabitants are unemployed? In the\n[AR] absence of any international effort to help Azeri refugees, as Kurdish\n[AR] and Bosnian refugees have been helped, how can the Azeri government\n[AR] reject the demand of these exiles to recapture their lands, homes and\n[AR] possessions?\n\nThe Azeri government should have thought about such thnings before they\nattempted to deprive Armenians of \"lands, homes, and possessions\".\n \n[AR] Such simple realities must be understood in the West.\n[AR] Misunderstanding Caucasian politics leads both Western and Russian\n[AR] public opinion to imagine a permanent, and therefore irreversible,\n[AR] ethnic and religious rivalry in the Caucasus.\n\nTrue, and you, Dr. Alec Rasizade, should practice what you preach!\n \n[AR] I think Western reluctance to interfere derives from this idea.\n[AR] Meanwhile, continuation of the war could draw both Eastern and Western\n[AR] states into the conflict through activation of various security\n[AR] alliances. These include, on the Armenian side, the Moscow-led\n[AR] Commonwealth forces under the Tashkent mutual security pact, signed\n[AR] May 15, 1992. On the Azeri side, should Turkey get involved as the\n[AR] guarantor of the Nakhichevan autonomy through the Kars Treaty of Oct.\n[AR] 13, 1921, these include the North Atlantic Treaty forces.\n\nWestern interference! Turkish intervention! The moment Turkey dares step into\nthis conflict it will close the doors of any chance of Turkey being part of \nEurope (as if it ever will) and will destroy the eastern third of Anatolia!\nDr. Rasizade, international realpolitik is not as simple-minded as you would\nhave us believe.\n \n[AR] Upper Karabakh generally is described in Western press reports as an\n[AR]\"Armenian enclave within Azerbaijan.\" The truth is that the Armenians\n[AR] began to appear there only in the middle of the last century.\n\nIncorrect once again. A brief scan of history addresses such a foolish\nclaim. \n\nArmenians today, refer to the area of Nagorno-Karabakh as \"Artsakh\", which \ncomes from the Urartian term \"Urtekhe-Urtekhini\". NO Azeris yet! \n\nAncient Greeks referred to Artsakh as \"Orkhistena\". NO Azeris yet!\n\nIn the first half of the 6th century B.C., Artsakh, as part of Ervandid\nArmenia of Media. NO Azeris yet!\n\nFrom the end of the 4th century B.C., Artsakh was part of the Armenian Kingdom\nof Ervan. NO Azeris yet!\n\nArtsakh was still part of the Armenian Empire of Tigran. Orkhistena, or \nArtsakh is refereed to by Strabo, as part of Armenia. NO Azeris yet!\n\nAfter Armenia was divided between the Persian and Byzantine Empires in 387 \nA.D. until 428, Artsakh was part of Armenia. NO Azeris yet!\n\nEnd of the 5th century, Utik and Artsakh became principalities of the \nAranshakhiks. NO Azeris yet!\n\nBy the 7th century an Artsakh dialect of Armenian formed. NO Azeris yet!\n\nEmperor Konstantin (913-959) addressees a letter to the Prince of Khachen \"To\nArmenia\". Khachen was the central principality of Artsakh. NO Azeris yet!\n\nIn the decree of Paul I (1797), the number of Armenian families in this area\nwas stated as 11,000.\n\nIt was from the 16th to the 18th centuries that non-Armenians from Central\nAsia, Asia Minor, and Kurdistan first began to be exercise political influence\nin the planes of Artsakh. Caucasian Muslims around Karabakh!\n\nIn 1813 Karabagh becomes part of Russia. Officiallt part of Russia 1828. Some \nMuslims in Karabakh!\n\nIn 1914, the number of Armenian churches in Nagorno-Karabagh was 224, 188\npriests, 206,768 parishioners in 224 Armenian towns and villages. The Armenian\npercentage of the population was over 90%. MAX: 10% Azeris in Karabakh --\nassuming no Kurds!\n\nConsider the following statement by the Azerbaijani Revcom on December 1, 1920:\n\n \"The Worker-Peasant Government of Azerbaidzan, having been informed of the\n proclamation of Armenia a Soviet Socialist Republic, sends its greetings\n to the brother people. From this day the previous boundaries between\n Armenia and Azerbaidzan are annulled. Nagornyi Karabakh, Zangezur, and\n Nakhichevan are recognized as integral parts of the Armenian Socialis\n Republic.\n\n Long live the brotherhood and union of the workers and peasants of Soviet\n Armenia and Azerbaidzan!\n\n\t\t\t\tChairman of the Revcom of Azerbaidzan\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tN. Narimanov\n\n\t\t\t\tPeople's Commissar for Foreign Affairs\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tGuseinov\"\n\n[AR] A few years ago they celebrated the 150th anniversary of their\n[AR] resettlement from Persia to Karabakh, after it came under Russian\n[AR] rule. \n\nNo, incorrect. The 1988 celebration was the 150th anniversary of Russian rule\nin the Caucasus, including Karabakh!\n\n[AR] At the same time the Russian colonial administration also drew\n[AR] in Russian and German settlers, who were welcomed by Azeris. How\n[AR] would Americans react if the large numbers of Armenians living in\n[AR] southern California suddenly claimed an Armenian homeland, and\n[AR] demanded separation from California?\n\nNon-sequitur. \n \n[AR] Armenian historians insist that before the Armenian resettlement\n[AR] Karabakh was inhabited by aboriginal Christians. That is correct.\n\nArmenian historians don't say this!\n\n[AR] The people of medieval Caucasian Albania adopted Christianity in the\n[AR] fourth century. But those ancient residents had no link to and\n[AR] nothing in common with Armenians.\n\nConsidering the Caucasian Albans were of the Armenian Apostolic faith, and\ntheir utilization of the Armenian language in their liturgy, makes such an \nargument totally invalid!\n\n[AR] Azeris would have a better claim to\n[AR] be successors of Albania, since Azeris have for centuries inhabited,\n[AR] dominated, and developed the Karabakh part of the Azeri nation.\n\nWishing to be part of a people non-existent for nearly a millennium for geo-\npolitical advantage is rather outrageous. In addition to such absurdity,\nAzeris claim to be Turks, Persians, and all the while are Azerizing their\nminorities, such as the Lezgians, Kurds, Tat, Talish, and a host of other\nnationalities which may amount to nearly half the population of Azerbaijan.\n\n[AR] Both Armenia and Azerbaijan last year signed the Final Act of the\n[AR] Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe of 1975, and the\n[AR] Paris Charter for New Europe of 1990, confirming their mutual\n[AR] adherence to the principle of inviolability of existing borders. This\n[AR] principle means that the borders and territorial integrity of the\n[AR] Republic of Azerbaijan are to be guaranteed by all of the signatory\n[AR] nations, not just by Turkey.\n\nSuch agreements do not give Azerbaijan the right to de-populate Karabakh of\nArmenians.\n \n[AR] This is one key to intervention on behalf either of the U.N., the\n[AR] CSCE, the Commonwealth, NATO or Iran. The second key to untying the\n[AR] Caucasian knot is to determine who is the aggressor, according to the\n[AR] U.N. definition of 1974.\n\nFine, so why has Azerbaijan refused to allow UN troops into the Armenian\nenclave? What is Azerbaijan afraid of? Perhaps the fact that the territory\nis the home of Armenians, the UN, would by definition, support the local\npopulation! \n \n[AR] When that is accomplished, the international community can and should\n[AR] apply to the aggressor in the Caucasus international sanctions such as\n[AR] those presently being employed against Serbia and Montenegro in the\n[AR] former Yugoslavia. Such decisive collective international action can\n[AR] halt further aggression in Karabakh, and prevent the Armenian-Azeri\n[AR] conflict from growing and spreading.\n \nAzerbaijan's refusal to allow the Armenians of Karabakh to determine their\nown future the is issue, not viewing isolating events out of context are \nactions that will address the Karabakh conflict. Viewing events in a war\nin isolation and out of context is like viewing the landing at Normandy as\nan act of Allied aggression! \n \n[AR] Dr. Alec Rasizade, senior research officer at the Academy of Sciences\n[AR] of Azerbaijan, is a visiting researcher at the Harriman Institute of\n[AR] Columbia University in New York.\n\nHa!\n\n ", "In the following report: _Turkey Eyes Regional Role_ ANKARA, Turkey (AP)\nApril 27, 1993, we find in the last paragraph:\n\n[Turanist] Although Premier Suleyman Demirel criticized Ozal's often\n[Turanist] brash calls for more Turkish influence, he also has spoken\n[Turanist] of a swath of Turkic peoples \"stretching from the Adriatic\n[Turanist] Sea to the Great Wall of China.\"\n\nWho does Demirel think he is fooling? It seems at both ends of his envisioned \npan-Turkic Empire -- the Balkans and the Caucasus -- Turkey's fascist boasts\nare being pre-empted.\n\nI would suggest Turkey let the world feel some of their \"Grey Wolf Teeth\", and\nattempt to stretch from the Adriatic to China! Turkey will have cried \"wolf\"\njust once too much! \n\n", "It seems to me that you are the one who is supposed to do some reading. I think\nthat our major difference in opinion is on the legitimacy of Sevres. First, thattreaty was signed by the Ottoman Empire therefore legally it does not bind the \nRepublic of Turkey. The new independence movement (which by the way, is not the same as the Young Turks) naturally rejected it out of hand. to say that we \nshould accept because the Germans did theirs is absurd. We saw what the cosequences of such harsh treaties were in Hitler. Second, the Sevres treaty was even \nworse than Versailles. It divided the Ottoman Empire in to several influence \nzones, had the capital occupied, the economy under Allied control, the army di\nminished to nothing but a police force, in short a country in name only. I'd\nwonder if you would like to live under such conditions. And for the record, I donot feel sorry for the soldiers killed in IZMIR harbour. Before evacuating the \ncity, the Greek forces burned it down, so it serves them right.\nAs for being fooled by Allied promises, that too is your fault. You did not come to Anatolia just to enforce Sevres but to take part in the plunder as well.\nK. Burak Ucer", "\n\nC'mon, you still haven't corrected yourself, 'wieneramus'. In April \n1942, Hitler was preparing for the invasion of the Caucasus. A \nnumber of Nazi Armenian leaders began submitting plans to German\nofficials in spring and summer 1942. One of them was Souren Begzadian\nPaikhar, son of a former ambassador of the Armenian Republic in Baku.\nPaikhar wrote a letter to Hitler, asking for German support to his\nArmenian national socialist movement Hossank and suggesting the\ncreation of an Armenian SS formation in order \n\n\"to educate the youth of liberated Armenia according to the \n spirit of the Nazi ideas.\"\n\nHe wanted to unite the Armenians of the already occupied territories\nof the USSR in his movement and with them conquer historic Turkish\nhomeland. Paikhar was confined to serving the Nazis in Goebbels\nPropaganda ministry as a speaker for Armenian- and French-language\nradio broadcastings.[1] The Armenian-language broadcastings were\nproduced by yet another Nazi Armenian Viguen Chanth.[2]\n\n[1] Patrick von zur Muhlen (Muehlen), p. 106.\n[2] Enno Meyer, A. J. Berkian, 'Zwischen Rhein und Arax, 900\n Jahre Deutsch-Armenische beziehungen,' (Heinz Holzberg\n Verlag-Oldenburg 1988), pp. 124 and 129.\n\n\nThe establishment of Armenian units in the German army was favored\nby General Dro (the Butcher). He played an important role in the\nestablishment of the Armenian 'legions' without assuming any \nofficial position. His views were represented by his men in the\nrespective organs. An interesting meeting took place between Dro\nand Reichsfuehrer-SS Heinrich Himmler toward the end of 1942.\nDro discussed matters of collaboration with Himmler and after\na long conversation, asked if he could visit POW camp close to\nBerlin. Himmler provided Dro with his private car.[1] \n\nA minor problem was that some of the Soviet nationals were not\n'Aryans' but 'subhumans' according to the official Nazi philosophy.\nAs such, they were subject to German racism. However, Armenians\nwere the least threatened and indeed most privileged. In August \n1933, Armenians had been recognized as Aryans by the Bureau of\nRacial Investigation in the Ministry for Domestic Affairs.\n\n[1] Meyer, Berkian, ibid., pp. 112-113.\n\nNeed I go on?\n\nSerdar Argic", "[stuff deleted]\n\nSmart indeed. If what you're saying is true, Greeks who visit are happy,\nthe Turkish merchants are happy; who is harmed? No one. So not only was\nit a smart move, it was also a good move for it adds to the happiness of\n200.000 Greeks per week and however many Turkish merchants they interact with.\nOne simple move in the paperwork arena -> lotsa happy people of both \nnationalities. Just and observation.\n\ncheers,\n\nBM", "Long time, no see.\n\n\t\t\tAndreas\n\n-- \n\n\t\tAndreas - Siperian Sirri Siberian Stint", "\n\nWell, does it change the fact that during the period of 1914 to 1920, \nthe Armenian Government ordered, incited, assisted and participated \nin the genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people because of race, religion\nand national origin?\n\nBetween 1914 and 1920, 2.5 million Turks perished of butchery at the \nhands of Armenians. The genocide involved not only the killing of \ninnocents but their forcible deportation from the Russian Armenia. \nThey were persecuted, banished, and slaughtered while much of Ottoman \nArmy was engaged in World War I. The Genocide Treaty defines genocide \nas acting with a \n\n 'specific intent to destroy, in whole or in substantial part, a \n national, ethnic, racial or religious group.' \n\nHistory shows that the x-Soviet Armenian Government intended to eradicate \nthe Muslim population. 2.5 million Turks and Kurds were exterminated by the \nArmenians. International diplomats in Ottoman Empire at the time - including \nU.S. Ambassador Bristol - denounced the x-Soviet Armenian Government's policy \nas a massacre of the Kurds, Turks, and Tartars. The blood-thirsty leaders of \nthe x-Soviet Armenian Government at the time personally involved in the \nextermination of the Muslims. The Turkish genocide museums in Turkiye honor \nthose who died during the Turkish massacres perpetrated by the Armenians. \n\nThe eyewitness accounts and the historical documents established,\nbeyond any doubt, that the massacres against the Muslim people\nduring the war were planned and premeditated. The aim of the policy\nwas clearly the extermination of all Turks in x-Soviet Armenian \nterritories.\n\nThe Muslims of Van, Bitlis, Mus, Erzurum and Erzincan districts and\ntheir wives and children have been taken to the mountains and killed.\nThe massacres in Trabzon, Tercan, Yozgat and Adana were organized and\nperpetrated by the blood-thirsty leaders of the x-Soviet Armenian \nGovernment.\n\nThe principal organizers of the slaughter of innocent Muslims were\nDro, Antranik, Armen Garo, Hamarosp, Daro Pastirmadjian, Keri,\nKarakin, Haig Pajise-liantz and Silikian.\n\nSource: \"Bristol Papers\", General Correspondence: Container #32 - Bristol\n to Bradley Letter of September 14, 1920.\n\n\"I have it from absolute first-hand information that the Armenians in \n the Caucasus attacked Tartar (Turkish) villages that are utterly \n defenseless and bombarded these villages with artillery and they murder\n the inhabitants, pillage the village and often burn the village.\"\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nPardon me? History shows that within the last 170 years, Greeks played \nthat game twice: They used Istanbul Patriarch Grigorios in 1822 to \ninstigate the Morea rebellion that resulted in the massacres of \nthe Muslim people. Again, the Orthodox Patriarch Constantine V \ninvited the Russian Czar Nicholas II to invade the Ottoman Empire \n'in the name of Jesus,' and save his flock from Ottoman rule. \n\nSource: \"The 'Past' in Medieval and Modern Greek Culture,\" in Speros\n Vryonis, ed., 'Byzantina kai Metabyzantina,' Vol I (Malibu,\n Calif., 1978).\n\np. 161.\n\nIn the words of Professor Skiotis, \"With savage jubilance, [the Greeks]\nsang the words 'Let no Turk remain in the Morea, nor in the whole world.'\nThe Greeks were determined to achieve to 'Romaiko' in the only way they\nknew how: through a war of religious extermination.\"\n\n\n <>\n\n[42] Ashkenazi Community, Corlu, to AIU no.8783, 2 May 1902, in AIU\n Archives (Paris) II C 8, with report printed in El Tiempo of 1 May 1902.\n\n\nSource: Professor Stanford J. Shaw, 'The Jews of the Ottoman Empire and the\n Turkish Republic,' New York University Press, New York (1991).\n\n pages 202-203:\n\n <>\n\n\n[39] El Tiempo, 28 April 1926; Galante, Istanbul I, 185; Galante, Documents V,\n 340-41.\n\n[40] FO 78/430, enclosed in Baring no.207 to Lord Salisbury, Cairo,\n 25 June 1890, reprinted in Landau, 'Ritual Murder Accusations', p.450.\n\n[41] Jacob Landau, 'Ritual Murder Accusations and Persecutions of Jews\n in Nineteenth Century Egypt', Sefunot V (1961), 425-427; for example\n see report in BAIU [Bulletin de l'Alliance Israelite Universelle:\n Deuxieme Serie (Paris)], first semestre 1881, pp.66-67. Galante also\n reported similar difficulties with the Greek religious leaders while\n he was teaching in Rhodes.\n\n[42] Ashkenazi Community, Corlu, to AIU no.8783, 2 May 1902, in AIU\n Archives (Paris) II C 8, with report printed in El Tiempo of 1 May 1902.\n\nSerdar Argic", "henrik]Let me clearify Mr. Turkish;\n\nhenrik]ARMENIA is NOT getting \"itchy\". SHE is simply LETTING the WORLD \nhenrik] KNOW that SHE WILL NO LONGER sit there QUIET and LET TURKS get \nhenrik] away with their FAMOUS tricks. Armenians DO REMEMBER of the TURKISH \nhenrik] invasion of the Greek island of CYPRESS WHILE the world simply WATCHED. \n\n\nEsin Terzioglu] Your ignorance is obvious from your posting. \nEsin Terzioglu] 1) Cyprus was an INDEPENDENT country with Turkish/Greek \n\t\t inhabitants (NOT a Greek island like your ignorant \n\t\t\tposting claims)\nEsin Terzioglu] 2) The name should be Cyprus (in English)\nEsin Terzioglu] next time read and learn before you post. \n\n\n\nAside from spelling , why is that you TURKS DO NOT want to admit your\npast MISTAKES ? You know TURKISH INVASION of CYPRUS was a mistake and too\nbad that U.N. DID NOT do anything about it. You may ask : mistake ?\nYes, I would say. Why is that the GREEKS DID NOT INVADE CYPRUS ?\n\nMy response to the \"shooting down\" of a Turkish airplane over the Armenian\nair space was because of the IGNORANT posting of the person from your \nCountry. Turks and Azeris consistantly WANT to drag ARMENIA into the\nKARABAKH conflict with Azerbaijan. The KARABAKHI-ARMENIANS who have lived\nin their HOMELAND for 3000 years (CUT OFF FROM ARMENIA and GIVEN TO AZERIS \nBY STALIN) are the ones DIRECTLY involved in the CONFLICT. They are defending \nthemselves against AZERI AGGRESSION. Agression that has NO MERCY for INOCENT \npeople that are costantly SHELLED with MIG-23's and othe Russian aircraft. ", "\n\n\nAre you suggesting that we should forget the cold-blooded genocide of\n2.5 million Muslim people by the Armenians between 1914 and 1920? But \nmost people aren't aware that in 1939 Hitler said that he would pattern\nhis elimination of the Jews based upon what the Armenians did to Turkish\npeople in 1914.\n\n\n 'After all, who remembers today the extermination of the Tartars?'\n (Adolf Hitler, August 22, 1939: Ruth W. Rosenbaum (Durusoy), \n \"The Turkish Holocaust - Turk Soykirimi\", p. 213.)\n\n\nI refer to the Turks and Kurds as history's forgotten people. It does\nnot serve our society well when most people are totally unaware of\nwhat happened in 1914 where a vicious society, run by fascist Armenians,\ndecided to simply use the phoniest of pretexts as an excuse, for wiping \nout a peace-loving, industrious, and very intelligent and productive \nethnic group. What we have is a demand from the fascist government of\nx-Soviet Armenia to redress the wrongs that were done against our\npeople. And the only way we can do that is if we can catch hold of and \nnot lose sight of the historical precedence in this very century. We \ncannot reverse the events of the past, but we can and we must strive to \nkeep the memory of this tragedy alive on this side of the Atlantic, so as\nto help prevent a recurrence of the extermination of a people because \nof their religion or their race. Which means that I support the claims \nof the Turks and Kurds to return to their lands in x-Soviet Armenia, \nto determine their own future as a nation in their own homeland.\n\nSerdar Argic", "\nBM] Gimme a break. CAPITAL letters, or NOT, the above is pure nonsense. \nBM] It seems to me that short sighted Armenians are escalating the hostilities\n\t\t ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\n\nThe winding down of winter puts you in a heavy 'Arromdian' mood? I'll \nsee if I can get our dear \"Mehmetcik\" to write you a letter giving\nyou and your criminal handlers at the ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism and\nRevisionism Triangle some military pointers, like how to shoot armed\nadult males instead of small Muslim children and pregnant women.\n\n\nSource: 'The Times,' 3 March 1992\n\nMASSACRE UNCOVERED....\n\nBy ANATOL LIEVEN,\n\nMore than sixty bodies, including those of women and children, have \nbeen spotted on hillsides in Nagorno-Karabakh, confirming claims \nthat Armenian troops massacred Azeri refugees. Hundreds are missing.\n\nScattered amid the withered grass and bushes along a small valley \nand across the hillside beyond are the bodies of last Wednesday's \nmassacre by Armenian forces of Azerbaijani refugees.\n\nFrom that hill can be seen both the Armenian-controlled town of \nAskeran and the outskirts of the Azerbaijani military headquarters \nof Agdam. Those who died very nearly made it to the safety of their \nown lines.\n\nWe landed at this spot by helicopter yesterday afternoon as the last \ntroops of the Commonwealth of Independent states began pulling out. \nThey left unhindered by the warring factions as General Boris Gromov, \nwho oversaw the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan, flew to Stepanakert \nto ease their departure.\n\nA local truce was enforced to allow the Azerbaijaines to collect their \ndead and any refugees still hiding in the hills and forest. All the \nsame, two attack helicopters circled continuously the nearby Armenian \npositions.\n\nIn all, 31 bodies could be counted at the scene. At least another \n31 have been taken into Agdam over the past five days. These figures \ndo not include civilians reported killed when the Armenians stormed \nthe Azerbaijani town of Khodjaly on Tuesday night. The figures also \ndo not include other as yet undiscovered bodies\n\nZahid Jabarov, a survivor of the massacre, said he saw up to 200 \npeople shot down at the point we visited, and refugees who came \nby different routes have also told of being shot at repeatedly and \nof leaving a trail of bodies along their path. Around the bodies \nwe saw were scattered possessions, clothing and personnel documents. \nThe bodies themselves have been preserved by the bitter cold which\nkilled others as they hid in the hills and forest after the massacre. \nAll are the bodies of ordinary people, dressed in the poor, ugly \nclothing of workers.\n\nOf the 31 we saw, only one policeman and two apparent national \nvolunteers were wearing uniform. All the rest were civilians, \nincluding eight women and three small children. TWO GROUPS, \nAPPARENTLY FAMILIES, HAD FALLEN TOGETHER, THE CHILDREN CRADLED \nIN THE WOMEN'S ARMS.\n\nSEVERAL OF THEM, INCLUDING ONE SMALL GIRL, HAD TERRIBLE HEAD \nINJURIES: ONLY HER FACE WAS LEFT. SURVIVORS HAVE TOLD HOW THEY \nSAW ARMENIANS SHOOTING THEM POINT BLANK AS THEY LAY ON THE GROUND.\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nVery simple.\n\n\"X-Soviet Armenian government must pay for their crime of genocide \n against 2.5 million Muslims by admitting to the crime and making \n reparations to the Turks and Kurds.\"\n\nAfter all, your criminal grandparents exterminated 2.5 million Muslim\npeople between 1914 and 1920.\n\n\n\nhovig@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Hovig Heghinian)\n\n\nYou must be a new 'Arromdian'. You are counting on ASALA/SDPA/ARF \ncrooks and criminals to prove something for you? No wonder you are in \nsuch a mess. That criminal idiot and 'its' forged/non-existent junk has \nalready been trashed out by Mutlu, Cosar, Akgun, Uludamar, Akman, Oflazer \nand hundreds of people. Moreover, ASALA/SDPA/ARF criminals are responsible \nfor the massacre of the Turkish people that also prevent them from entering \nTurkiye and TRNC. SDPA has yet to renounce its charter which specifically \ncalls for the second genocide of the Turkish people. This racist, barbarian \nand criminal view has been touted by the fascist x-Soviet Armenian government \nas merely a step on the road to said genocide. \n\nNow where shall I begin?\n\n#From: ahmet@eecg.toronto.edu (Parlakbilek Ahmet)\n#Subject: YALANCI, LIAR : DAVIDIAN\n#Keywords: Davidian, the biggest liar\n#Message-ID: <1991Jan10.122057.11613@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu>\n\nFollowing is the article that Davidian claims that Hasan Mutlu is a liar:\n\n\n\n\n\n\n[some parts are deleted]\n\n\n\n\n\t\t\t\t- - -\n\n\n\n\nReceiving this message, I checked the reference, L.Kuper,\"Genocide...\" and\nwhat I have found was totally consistent with what Davidian said.The book\nwas like \"voice of Armenian revolutionists\" and although I read the whole book,\nI could not find the original quota.\nBut there was one more thing to check:The original posting of Mutlu.I found \nthe original article of Mutlu.It is as follows:\n\n\n\n ======================================================================\n ======\n\nQUATO IS THE SAME, REFERENCE IS DIFFERENT !\n\nDAVIDIAN LIED AGAIN, AND THIS TIME HE CHANGED THE ORIGINAL POSTING OF MUTLU\nJUST TO ACCUSE HIM TO BE A LIAR.\n\nDavidian, thank you for writing the page number correctly...\n\nYou are the biggest liar I have ever seen.This example showed me that tomorrow\nyou can lie again, and you may try to make me a liar this time.So I decided\nnot to read your articles and not to write answers to you.I also advise\nall the netters to do the same.We can not prevent your lies, but at least\nwe may save time by not dealing with your lies.\n\nAnd for the following line:\n\nI also return all the insults you wrote about Mutlu to you.\nI hope you will be drowned in your lies.\n\nAhmet PARLAKBILEK\n\n#From: vd8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Vedat Dogan)\n#Message-ID: <1993Apr8.233029.29094@news.columbia.edu>\n\n \nn>crap posted by Mr. [(*]!\n \n o boy! \n \n Please, can you tell us why those quotes are \"crap\"?..because you do not \n like them!!!...because they really exist...why?\n \n As I said in my previous posting, those quotes exactly exist in the source \n given by Serdar Argic .. \n \n You couldn't reject it...\n \n \n Here we go again..\n In the book I have, both the front page and the Author's preface give \n the same year: 1923 and 15 January, 1923, respectively!\n (Anyone can check it at her/his library,if not, I can send you the copies of\n pages, please ask by sct) \n \n \nI really don't care what year it was first published(1923 or 1924)\nWhat I care about is what the book writes about murders, tortures,et..in\nthe given quotes by Serdar Argic, and your denial of these quotes..and your\ngroundless accussations, etc. \n \n[...]\n \n \n I claim I have a book in my hand published in 1923(first publication)\n and it exactly has the same quoted info as the book published\n in 1934(Serdar Argic's Reference) has..You couldn't reject it..but, now you\n are avoiding the real issues by twisting around..\n \n Let's see how you lie!..(from 'non-existing' quotes to re-publication)\n \n First you said there was no such a quote in the given reference..You\n called Serdar Argic a liar!..\n I said to you, NO, MR.Davidian, there exactly existed such a quote...\n (I even gave the call number, page numbers..you could't reject it.)\n \n And now, you are lying again and talking about \"modified,re-published book\"\n(without any proof :how, when, where, by whom, etc..)..\n (by the way, how is it possible to re-publish the book in 1923 if it was\n first published in 1924(your claim).I am sure that you have some 'pretty \n well suited theories', as usual)\n \n And I am ready to send the copies of the necessary pages to anybody who\n wants to compare the fact and Mr.Davidian's lies...I also give the call number\n and page numbers again for the library use, which are: \n 949.6 R 198\n \n and the page numbers to verify the quotes:218 and 215\n \n \n \n \n Now, are you claiming that there can't be such a reference by saying \"it is\n not possible...\" ..If not, what is your point?\n \n Differences in the number of pages?\n Mine was published in 1923..Serdar Argic's was in 1934..\n No need to use the same book size and the same letter \n charachter in both publications,etc, etc.. does it give you an idea!!\n \n The issue was not the number of pages the book has..or the year\n first published.. \n And you tried to hide the whole point..\n the point is that both books have the exactly the same quotes about\n how moslems are killed, tortured,etc by Armenians..and those quotes given \n by Serdar Argic exist!! \n It was the issue, wasn't-it? \n \n you were not able to object it...Does it bother you anyway? \n \n You name all these tortures and murders (by Armenians) as a \"crap\"..\n People who think like you are among the main reasons why the World still\n has so many \"craps\" in the 1993. \n \n Any question?\n \n\n\nhovig@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Hovig Heghinian)\n\n\nWell, apparently we have another son of Dro 'the Butcher' to contend with. \nYou should indeed be happy to know that you rekindled a huge discussion on\ndistortions propagated by several of your contemporaries. If you feel \nthat you can simply act as an Armenian governmental crony in this forum \nyou will be sadly mistaken and duly embarrassed. This is not a lecture to \nanother historical revisionist and a genocide apologist, but a fact.\n\nI will dissect article-by-article, paragraph-by-paragraph, line-by-line, \nlie-by-lie, revision-by-revision, written by those on this net, who plan \nto 'prove' that the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Turks and Kurds is \nnothing less than a classic un-redressed genocide. We are neither in \nx-Soviet Union, nor in some similar ultra-nationalist fascist dictatorship, \nthat employs the dictates of Hitler to quell domestic unrest. Also, feel \nfree to distribute all responses to your nearest ASALA/SDPA/ARF terrorists,\nthe Armenian pseudo-scholars, or to those affiliated with the Armenian\ncriminal organizations.\n\nArmenian government got away with the genocide of 2.5 million Turkish men,\nwomen and children and is enjoying the fruits of that genocide. You, and \nthose like you, will not get away with the genocide's cover-up.\n\nNot a chance.\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nDone. But did it change the fact that during the period of 1914 to 1920, \nthe Armenian Government ordered, incited, assisted and participated \nin the genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people because of race, religion\nand national origin? By the way, you still haven't corrected yourself.\nDuring World War II Armenians were carried away with the German might and\ncringing and fawning over the Nazis. In that zeal, the Armenian publication\nin Germany, Hairenik, carried statements as follows:[1]\n\n\"Sometimes it is difficult to eradicate these poisonous elements (the Jews)\n when they have struck deep root like a chronic disease, and when it \n becomes necessary for a people (the Nazis) to eradicate them in an uncommon\n method, these attempts are regarded as revolutionary. During the surgical\n operation, the flow of blood is a natural thing.\" \n\nNow for a brief view of the Armenian genocide of the Muslims and Jews -\nextracts from a letter dated December 11, 1983, published in the San\nFrancisco Chronicle, as an answer to a letter that had been published\nin the same journal under the signature of one B. Amarian.\n\n \"...We have first hand information and evidence of Armenian atrocities\n against our people (Jews)...Members of our family witnessed the \n murder of 148 members of our family near Erzurum, Turkey, by Armenian \n neighbors, bent on destroying anything and anybody remotely Jewish \n and/or Muslim. Armenians should look to their own history and see \n the havoc they and their ancestors perpetrated upon their neighbors...\n Armenians were in league with Hitler in the last war, on his premise \n to grant them self government if, in return, the Armenians would \n help exterminate Jews...Armenians were also hearty proponents of\n the anti-Semitic acts in league with the Russian Communists. Mr. Amarian!\n I don't need your bias.\" \n\n Signed Elihu Ben Levi, Vacaville, California.\n\n[1] James G. Mandalian, 'Dro, Drastamat Kanayan,' in the 'Armenian\n Review,' a Quarterly by the Hairenik Association, Inc., Summer:\n June 1957, Vol. X, No. 2-38.\n\nSerdar Argic", "Accounts of Anti-Armenian Human Right Violatins in Azerbaijan #009\n Prelude to Current Events in Nagorno-Karabakh\n\n +-----------------------------------------------------------------+\n | |\n | There were about six burned people in there, and the small |\n | corpse of a burned child. It was gruesome. I suffered a |\n | tremendous shock. There were about ten people there, but the |\n | doctor on duty said that because of the numbers they were being |\n | taken to Baku. There was a woman's corpse there too, she had |\n | been . . . well, there was part of a body there . . . a |\n | hacked-off part of a woman's body. It was something terrible. |\n | |\n +-----------------------------------------------------------------+\n\nDEPOSITION OF ROMAN ALEKSANDROVICH GAMBARIAN\n\n Born 1954\n Senior Engineer\n Sumgait Automotive Transport Production Association\n\n Resident at Building 17/33B, Apartment 40\n Microdistrict No. 3\n Sumgait [Azerbaijan]\n\n\nWhat happened in Sumgait was a great tragedy, an awful tragedy for us, the \nArmenian people, and for all of mankind. A genocide of Armenians took place\nduring peacetime.\n\nAnd it was a great tragedy for me personally, because I lost my father in\nthose days. He was still young. Born in 1926.\n\nOn that day, February 28, we were at home. Of course we had heard that there \nwas unrest in town, my younger brother Aleksandr had told us about it. But we \ndidn't think . . . we thought that everything would happen outdoors, that they\nwouldn't go into people's apartments. About five o'clock we saw a large crowd \nnear the Kosmos movie theater in our microdistrict. We were sitting at home \nwatching television. We go out on the balcony and see the crowd pour into Mir \nStreet. This is right near downtown, next to the airline ticket office, our \nhouse is right nearby. That day there was a group of policeman with shields\nthere. They threw rocks at those policemen. Then they moved off in the \ndirection of our building. They burned a motorcycle in our courtyard and \nstarted shouting for Armenians to come out of the building. We switched off \nthe light. As it turns out, their signal was just the opposite: to turn on the\nlight. That meant that it was an Azerbaijani home. We, of course, didn't know \nand thought that if they saw lights on they would come to our apartment.\n\nSuddenly there's pounding on the door. We go to the door, all four of us:\nthere were four of us in the apartment. Father, Mother, my younger brother\nAleksandr, and I. He was born in 1959. My father was a veteran of World War \nII and had fought in China and in the Soviet Far East; he was a pilot.\n\nWe went to the door and they started pounding on it harder, breaking it down \nwith axes. We start to talk to them in Azerbaijani, \"What's going on? What's \nhappened?\" They say, \"Armenians, get out of here!\" We don't open the door, we \nsay, \"If we have to leave, we'll leave, we'll leave tomorrow.\" They say, \"No, \nleave now, get out of here, Armenian dogs, get out of here!\" By now they've \nbroken the door both on the lock and the hinge sides. We hold them off as best\nwe can, my father and I on one side, and my mother and brother on the other. \nWe had prepared ourselves: we had several hammers and an axe in the apartment,\nand grabbed what we could find to defend ourselves. They broke in the door and\nwhen the door gave way, we held it for another half-hour. No neighbors, no\npolice and no one from the city government came to our aid the whole time. We \nheld the door. They started to smash the door on the lock side, first with an \naxe, and then with a crowbar.\n\nWhen the door gave way--they tore it off its hinges--Sasha hit one of them \nwith the axe. The axe flew out of his hands. They also had axes, crowbars, \npipes, and special rods made from armature shafts. One of them hit my father \nin the head. The pressure from the mob was immense. When we retreated into the\nroom, one of them hit my mother, too, in the left part of her face. My brother\nSasha and I fought back, of course. Sasha is quite strong and hot-tempered, he\nwas the judo champion of Sumgait. We had hammers in our hands, and we injured \nseveral of the bandits--in the heads and in the eyes, all that went on. But \nthey, the injured ones, fell back, and others came to take their places, there\nwere many of them.\n\nThe door fell down at an angle. The mob tried to remove the door, so as to go \ninto the second room and to continue . . . to finish us off. Father brought \nskewers and gave them to Sasha and me--we flew at them when we saw Father \nbleeding: his face was covered with blood, he had been wounded in the head, \nand his whole face was bloody. We just threw ourselves on them when we saw \nthat. We threw ourselves at the mob and drove back the ones in the hall, drove\nthem down to the third floor. We came out on the landing, but a group of the \nbandits remained in one of the rooms they were smashing all the furniture in \nthere, having closed the door behind them. We started tearing the door off to \nchase away the remaining ones or finish them. Then a man, an imposing man of \nabout 40, an Azerbaijani, came in. When he was coming in, Father fell down and\nMother flew to him, and started to cry out. I jumped out onto the balcony and \nstarted calling an ambulance, but then the mob started throwing stones through\nthe windows of our veranda and kitchen. We live on the fourth floor. And no \none came. I went into the room. It seemed to me that this man was the leader \nof the group. He was respectably dressed in a hat and a trench coat with a \nfur collar. And he addressed my mother in Azerbaijani: \"What's with you, \nwoman, why are you shouting? What happened? Why are you shouting like that?\"\nShe says, \"What do you mean, what happened? You killed somebody!\" My father \nwas a musician, he played the clarinet, he played at many weddings, Armenian \nand Azerbaijani, he played for many years. Everyone knew him. Mother says, \n\"The person who you killed played at thousands of Azerbaijani weddings, he \nbrought so much joy to people, and you killed that person.\" He says, \"You \ndon't need to shout, stop shouting.\" And when they heard the voice of this \nman, the 15 to 18 people who were in the other room opened the door and \nstarted running out. We chased after them, but they ran away. That man left, \ntoo. As we were later told, downstairs one of them told the others, I don't \nknow if it was from fright or what, told them that we had firearms, even\nthough we only fought with hammers and an axe. We raced to Father and started \nto massage his heart, but it was already too late. We asked the neighbors to \ncall an ambulance. The ambulance never came, although we waited for it all \nevening and all through the night.\n\nSomewhere around midnight about 15 policemen came. They informed us they were \nfrom Khachmas. They said, \"We heard that a group was here at your place, you \nhave our condolences.\" They told us not to touch anything and left. Father lay\nin the room.\n\nSo we stayed home. Each of us took a hammer and a knife. We sat at home. Well,\nwe say, if they descend on us again we'll defend ourselves. Somewhere around \none o'clock in the morning two people came from the Sumgait Procuracy, \ninvestigators. They say, \"Leave everything just how it is, we're coming back \nhere soon and will bring an expert who will record and photograph everything.\"\nThen people came from the Republic Procuracy too, but no one helped us take \nFather away. The morning came and the neighbors arrived. We wanted to take \nFather away somehow. We called the Procuracy and the police a couple of times,\nbut no one came. We called an ambulance, and nobody came. Then one of the \nneighbors said that the bandits were coming to our place again and we should \nhide. We secured the door somehow or other. We left Father in the room and \nwent up to the neighbor's.\n\nThe excesses began again in the morning. The bandits came in several vehicles,\nZIL panel trucks, and threw themselves out of the vehicles like . . . a \nlanding force near the center of town. Our building was located right there. A\ncrowd formed. Then they started fighting with the soldiers. Then, in Buildings\n19 and 20, that's next to the airline ticket office, they started breaking \ninto Armenian apartments, destroying property, and stealing. The Armenians \nweren't at home, they had managed to flee and hide somewhere. And again they \npoured in the direction of our building. They were shouting that there were \nsome Armenians left on the fourth floor, meaning us. \"They're up there, still,\nup there. Let's go kill them!\" They broke up all the furniture remaining in \nthe two rooms, threw it outside, and burned it in large fires. We were hiding \none floor up. Something heavy fell. Sasha threw himself toward the door \nshouting that it was probably Father, they had thrown Father, were defiling \nthe corpse, probably throwing it in the fire, going to burn it. I heard it, \nand the sound was kind of hollow, and I said, \"No, that's from some of the \nfurniture.\" Mother and I pounced on Sasha and stopped him somehow, and calmed \nhim down.\n\nThe mob left somewhere around eight o'clock. They smashed open the door and \nwent into the apartment of the neighbors across from us. They were also\nArmenians, they had left for another city.\n\nThe father of the neighbor who was concealing us came and said, \"Are you \ncrazy? Why are you hiding Armenians? Don't you now they're checking all the \napartments? They could kill you and them!\" And to us :\" . . . Come on, leave \nthis apartment!\" We went down to the third floor, to some other neighbors'. At\nfirst the man didn't want to let us in, but then one of his sons asked him and\nhe relented. We stayed there until eleven o'clock at night. We heard the sound\nof motors. The neighbors said that it was armored personnel carriers. We went \ndownstairs. There was a light on in the room where we left Father. In the \nother rooms, as we found out later, all the chandeliers had been torn down. \nThey left only one bulb. The bulb was burning, which probably was a signal \nthey had agreed on because there was a light burning in every apartment in our\nMicrodistrict 3 where there had been a pogrom.\n\nWith the help of the soldiers we made it to the City Party Committee and were \nsaved. Our salvation--my mother's, my brother's, and mine,--was purely \naccidental, because, as we later found out from the neighbors, someone in the \ncrowd shouted that we had firearms up there. Well, we fought, but we were only\nable to save Mother. We couldn't save Father. We inflicted many injuries on \nthe bandits, some of them serious. But others came to take their places. We \nwere also wounded, there was blood, and we were scratched all over--we got our\nshare. It was a miracle we survived. We were saved by a miracle and the \ntroops. And if troops hadn't come to Sumgait, the slaughter would have been \neven greater: probably all the Armenians would have been victims of the \ngenocide.\n\nThrough an acquaintance at the City Party Committee I was able to contact the \nleadership of the military unit that was brought into the city, and at their \norders we were assigned special people to accompany us, experts. We went to '\npick up Father's corpse. We took it to the morgue. This was about two o'clock \nin the morning, it was already March 1, it was raining very hard and it was \nquite cold, and we were wearing only our suits. When my brother and I carried \nFather into the morgue we saw the burned and disfigured corpses. There were \nabout six burned people in there, and the small corpse of a burned child. It \nwas gruesome. I suffered a tremendous shock. There were about ten people \nthere, but the doctor on duty said that because of the numbers they were being\ntaken to Baku. There was a woman's corpse there too, she had been . . . well, \nthere was part of a body there . . . a hacked-off part of a woman's body. It \nwas something terrible. The morgue was guarded by the landing force . . . The \nchild that had been killed was only ten or twelve years old. It was impossible\nto tell if it was a boy or a girl because the corpse was burned. There was a \nman there, too, several men. You couldn't tell anything because their faces \nwere disfigured, they were in such awful condition...\n\nNow two and a half months have passed. Every day I recall with horror what \nhappened in the city of Sumgait. Every day: my father, and the death of my \nfather, and how we fought, and the people's sorrow, and especially the morgue.\n\nI still want to say that 70 years have passed since Soviet power was\nestablished, and up to the very last minute we could not conceive of what \nhappened in Sumgait. It will go down in history.\n\nI'm particularly surprised that the mob wasn't even afraid of the troops. They\neven fought the soldiers. Many soldiers were wounded. The mob threw fuel \nmixtures onto the armored personnel carriers, setting them on fire. They \nweren't afraid. They were so sure of their impunity that they attacked our \ntroops. I saw the clashes on February 29 near the airline ticket office, right\nacross from our building. And that mob was fighting with the soldiers. The \ninhabitants of some of the buildings, also Azerbaijanis, threw rocks at the \nsoldiers from windows, balconies, even cinder blocks and glass tanks. They \nweren't afraid of them. I say they were sure of their impunity. When we were \nat the neighbors' and when they were robbing homes near the airline ticket \noffice I called the police at number 3-20-02 and said that they were robbing \nArmenian apartments and burning homes. And they told me that they knew that \nthey were being burned. During those days no one from the police department \ncame to anyone's aid. No one came to help us, either, to our home, even though\nperhaps they could have come and saved us.\n\nAs we later found out the mob was given free vodka and drugs, near the bus \nstation. Rocks were distributed in all parts of town to be thrown and used in \nfighting. So I think all of it was arranged in advance. They even knew in \nwhich buildings and apartments the Armenians lived, on which floors--they had\nlists, the bandits. You can tell that the \"operation\" was planned in advance.\n\nThanks, of course, to our troops, to the country's leadership, and to the\nleadership of the Ministry of Defense for helping us, thanks to the Russian\npeople, because the majority of the troops were Russians, and the troops \nsuffered losses, too. I want to express this gratitude in the name of my \nfamily and in the name of all Armenians, and in the name of all Sumgait\nArmenians. For coming in time and averting terrible things: worse would\nhave happened if that mob had not been stopped on time.\n\nAt present an investigation is being conducted on the part of the USSR\nProcuracy. I want to say that those bandits should receive the severest\npossible punishment, because if they don't, the tragedy, the genocide, could \nhappen again. Everyone should see that the most severe punishment is meted\nout for such deeds.\n\nVery many bandits and hardened hooligans took part in the unrest, in the mass \ndisturbances. The mobs were huge. At present not all of them have been caught,\nvery few of them have been, I think, judging by the newspaper reports. There \nwere around 80 people near our building alone, that's how many people took \npart in the pogrom of our building all in all.\n\nThey should all receive the most severe punishment so that others see that \nretribution awaits those who perform such acts.\n\n May 18, 1988\n Yerevan\n\n\t\t - - - reference - - -\n\n[1] _The Sumgait Tragedy; Pogroms against Armenians in Soviet Azerbaijan,\n Volume I, Eyewitness Accounts_, edited by Samuel Shahmuradian, forward by\n Yelena Bonner, 1990, published by Aristide D. Caratzas, NY, pages 153-157\n\n", "\n\nYup.\n\n\nI expect better from you, 'Mau'. No, I take that back, I don't. The \ntreaty on the exchange of the Turkish and Greek minorities (1923) left \nno Greek minority in Turkiye, except a few thousand Greeks in istanbul. \nTurkiye is no longer an obstacle for 'Pan-Hellenism.' Although the material \nbasis of Greek policy is no longer visible, there is a residue, which \nseems to unite the Pelopenisians, the Greeks who came from Asia Minor, \nthe Greeks who are originally from the islands of the Marmara Sea\nor those who live in the numerous Aegean islands. This residue is \nalso recognizable in the contemporary Greek government.\n\n\nNot a chance. Greece lost in each and every war conducted \"solely\" \nbetween Greece and Turkiye: in the Morea in 1821, in Thessaly in \n1897-98, and in Anatolia in 1922. After the Ottoman Empire lost \nWorld War I, the British landed in 1919 a 200,000 Greek army in \nIzmir to exterminate the people of Turkiye. Are you suffering \nfrom a severe case of amnesia? The tired and defeated Turks rose up,\nformed a National Force under the leadership of Mustafa Kemal, and\non August 30, 1922 they annihilated the bulk of the Greek Army.\n\n\n\nI love people who don't read and then spout myths as evidence. Where\nwere Greeks in 1912 and 1913? I guess, they were busy with...\n\n Greek Efforts to Decimate the Jewish Population of Salonica\n Culminated in 1912 and 1913\n\n <>\n\n <>\n\n[47] Robert Mantran, 'La structure sociale de la communaute juive de\n Salonqiue a la fin du dix-neuvieme siecle', RH no.534 (1980), 391-92;\n Nehama VII, 762; Joseph Nehama (Salonica) to AIU (Paris) no.2868/2,\n 12 May 1903 (AIU Archives I-C-43); and no.2775, 10 January 1900 (AIU\n Archives I-C-41), describing daily battles between Jewish and Greek\n children in the streets of Salonica. Benghiat, Director of Ecole Moise\n Allatini, Salonica, to AIU (Paris), no.7784, 1 December 1909 (AIU\n Archives I-C-48), describing Greek attacks on Jews, boycotts of Jewish\n shops and manufacturers, and Greek press campaigns leading to blood libel\n attacks. Cohen, Ecole Secondaire Moise Allatini, Salonica, to AIU (Paris),\n no.7745/4, 4 December 1912 (AIU Archives I-C-49) describes a week of terror\n that followed the Greek army occupation of Salonica in 1912, with the\n soldiers pillaging the Jewish quarters and destroying Jewish synagogues,\n accompanied by what he described as an 'explosion of hatred' by local\n Greek population against local Jews and Muslims. Mizrahi, President of the\n AIU at Salonica, reported to the AIU (Paris), no.2704/3, 25 July 1913\n (AIU Archives I-C-51) that 'It was not only the irregulars (Comitadjis)\n that massacred, pillaged and burned. The Army soldiers, the Chief of\n Police, and the high civil officials also took an active part in the\n horrors...', Moise Tovi (Salonica) to AIU (Paris) no.3027 (20 August 1913)\n (AIU Archives I-C-51) describes the Greek pillage of the Jewish quarter\n during the night of 18-19 August 1913.\n\n(AIU = Alliance Israelite Universelle, Paris.)\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nAnd this is just the beginning. Fascist x-Soviet Armenian Government will \nnot get away with the genocide of 2.5 million Turks and Kurds, and 204,000 \nAzeri people. Your criminal grandparents committed unheard-of crimes, \nresorted to all conceivable methods of despotism, organized massacres, \npoured petrol over babies and burned them, raped women and girls in front \nof their parents who were bound hand and foot, took girls from their \nmothers and fathers and appropriated personal property and real estate. \nAnd today, they put Azeris in the most unbearable conditions any other \nnation had ever known in history. \n\nYour fascist grandparents admitted their unspeakable crimes then. \nWhy deny them now? Now the genocide of the truth by the criminal/Nazi \nArmenians? Not a chance.\n\n \nSource: \"Men Are Like That\" by Leonard Ramsden Hartill. The Bobbs-Merrill\nCompany, Indianapolis (1926). (305 pages). \n(Memoirs of an Armenian officer who participated in the genocide of 2.5 \n million Muslim people)\n\n\"Foreword:\"\n\n\"For example, we were camped one night in a half-ruined Tartar mosque, \n the most habitable building of a destroyed village, near the border \n of Persia and Russian Armenia. During the course of evening I asked \n Ohanus if he could tell me anything of the history of the village and \n the cause of its destruction. In his matter of fact way he replied, Yes, \n I assisted in its sack and destruction, and witnessed the slaying of \n those whose bones you saw to-day scattered among its ruins.\" \n\np. 202 (first and second paragraphs).\n\n\"We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as \n ways of escape for the Tartars and then proceeded in the work \n of extermination. Our troops surrounded village after village. \n Little resistance was offered. Our artillery knocked the huts \n into heaps of stone and dust and when the villages became untenable \n and inhabitants fled from them into fields, bullets and bayonets \n completed the work. Some of the Tartars escaped of course. They \n found refuge in the mountains or succeeded in crossing the border \n into Turkey. The rest were killed. And so it is that the whole \n length of the borderland of Russian Armenia from Nakhitchevan to \n Akhalkalaki from the hot plains of Ararat to the cold mountain \n plateau of the North were dotted with mute mournful ruins of \n Tartar villages. They are quiet now, those villages, except for \n howling of wolves and jackals that visit them to paw over the \n scattered bones of the dead.\" \n\np. 15 (second paragraph).\n\n\"The Tartars were, for the most part, poor. Some of them lived in villages \n and cultivated small farms; many of them continued in the way of life of \n their nomadic forefathers. They drove their flocks and herds from valley \n to valley, from plain to mountain, and from mountain to plain, following \n the pasturage as it changed with the seasons. They ranged from the salt \n desert shores of the Caspian Sea far into the mighty Caucasus Mountains. \n Even the village Tartars are a primitive people, only semicivilized.\"\n\n\"I can see now that we Armenians frankly despised the Tartars, and, while \n holding a disproportionate share of the wealth of the country, regarded and\n treated them as inferiors. The fact that the Russians looked down upon all\n Armenians in much the same way as Armenians regarded Tartars, far from proving\n a bond between ourselves and our racially different neighbors, intensified\n an attitude and conduct on our part that served only to exacerbate hostility.\"\n\np. 20 (second paragraph).\n\n\"Our men armed themselves, gathered together and advanced on the Tartar\n section of the village. There were no lights in the houses and the doors\n were barred, for the Tartars suspected what as to happen and were in great \n fear. Our men hammered on the doors, but got no response; whereupon they\n smashed in the doors and began a carnage that continued until the last\n Tartar was slain. Throughout the hideous night, I cowered at home in terror,\n unable to shut my ears to the piercing screams of the helpless victims and\n the loud shouts of our men. By morning the work was finished.\"\n\np. 109 (second paragraph).\n\n\"As things were, the members of the Dashnack Party were without administrative\n experience; consequently the government they instituted quickly proved itself\n incompetent to rule by legitimate means.\n\n The members of the government had been revolutionists working in secret and\n outside the law. When they became a legally instituted, recognized governing\n body with the destiny of Armenia in their hands, they proved incompetent to \n do better than resume the terrorist tactics that had characterized their \n fight against the Russian and Turkish Governments in their outlaw days.\n\n The outstanding feature of their rule, now that they were in power, was,\n as in the old days, trial and execution without hearing. A man evoking\n the displeasure of the government or of some official would be tried and\n condemned without arrest or preference of charges against him. The method \n of execution was for a government 'mauserist' to walk up behind the\n condemned man in his home or on the street, place a pistol to the back\n of his head and blow out his brains. This simple way of getting rid of\n those who were undesirable in the view of the government and soon became\n a common way of paying debts.\"\n\np. 203 (first paragraph).\n\n\"A soldier succeeded in driving his bayonet through the Tartar. I saw the\n point of the weapon emerge through his back. ...Another soldier seized a rock \n and pounded the Tartar's head with it... The Armenian who had bayoneted him\n sprang to his feet, wrested the weapon from the Tartar's body, and, raising\n it to his lips, licked it clean of blood, exclaiming in Russian, 'Slodkey!\n Slodkey!' (Sweet.)\"\n\np. 203 (second paragraph).\n\n\"One evening I passed through what had been a Tartar village. Among the \n ruins a fire was burning. I went to the fire and saw seated about\n it a group of soldiers. Among them were two Tartar girls, mere children.\n The girls were crouched on the ground, crying softly with suppressed\n sobs. Lying scattered over the ground were broken household utensils and\n other furnishings of Tartar peasant homes. There were also bodies of the\n dead.\"\n\np. 204 (first paragraph).\n\n\"I was soon asleep. In the night I was awakened by the persistent crying of\n a child. I arose and went to investigate. A full moon enabled me to make\n my way about and revealed to me all the wreck and litter of the tragedy\n that had been enacted. Guided by the child's crying, I entered the yard of\n a house, which I judged from its appearance must have been the home of a\n Turkish family. There in a corner of the yard I found a women dead. Her\n throat had been cut. Lying on her breast was a small child, a girl about a\n year old.\"\n\np. 118.\n\n\"Slowly the train of oxcarts lumbered along through the snow, the cart\n jolting and the loads swaying. Boys ran along the line of oxen, encouraging\n them with shrill Tartar cries, and belaboring the beasts with sticks. In the\n carts, the women, veiled as is the Tartar way, held children in their arms.\n Wrapped in blankets and huddled among the goods that burdened the carts they\n sought protection from the wind and cold. A few old men plodded along on foot.\n\n Across the road through the ravine a barrier had been thrown. The leading\n oxteam reached this barrier and halted. The gunmen and other ruffians \n concealed among the rocks opened fire. Women and children leaped and\n scrambled from the carts, screamed, ran and sought vainly for safety.\n\n This massacre was not complete. The Armenian soldiers in the near-by \n barracks, hearing the firing and the turmoil, hurried to the scene....\n That same day the abandoned Tartar quarter of Alexandropol was looted\n and completely destroyed.\"\n\np. 192.\n\n\"Great swarms of peasants who had come out of their hiding-places on the\n retreat of the Turks followed our army as it advanced.... They entered\n into the city with the army and immediately began plundering the stores\n that had been left by the Turks.\"\n\np. 193.\n\n\"Terrible vengeance was taken upon Tartars, Kurds and Turks. Their villages\n were destroyed and they themselves were slain or driven out of the country.\"\n\np. 195.\n\n\"The fanatical Dashnacks hated the Turks above all others and then in order\n of diminishing intensity: Tartars, Kurds and Russians.\" \n\np. 218. (First and second paragraphs)\n\n\"Russian troops did terrible things in the Turkish villages...We Armenians \n did not spare the Tartars....If persisted in, the slaughtering of prisoners, \n the looting, and the rape and massacre of the helpless become commonplace \n actions expected and accepted as a matter of course.\n\n I have been on the scenes of massacres where the dead lay on the ground,\n in numbers, like the fallen leaves in a forest. They had been as helpless\n and as defenseless as sheep. They had not died as soldiers die in the\n heat of battle, fired with ardor and courage, with weapons in their hands,\n and exchanging blow for blow. They had died as the helpless must, with\n their hearts and brains bursting with horror worse than death itself.\"\n\np. 133 (first paragraph)\n\n\"In this movement we took with us three thousand Turkish soldiers who\n had been captured by the Russians and left on our hands when the Russians\n abandoned the struggle. During our retreat to Karaklis two thousand of\n these poor devils were cruelly put to death. I was sickened by the\n brutality displayed, but could not make any effective protest. Some,\n mercifully, were shot. Many of them were burned to death. The method\n employed was to put a quantity of straw into a hut, and then after\n crowding the hut with Turks, set fire to the straw.\"\n\np. 19 (first paragraph)\n\n\"The Tartar section of the town no longer existed, except as a pile of\n ruins. It had been destroyed and its inhabitants slaughtered. The same \n fate befell the Tartar section of Khankandi.\"\n\np. 22 (second paragraph)\n\n\"Many of our men had served in the Russian Army, and were trained soldiers.\n We Armenians were rich and possessed arms. Tartars had never received\n military training. They were poor, and possessed few arms beyond knives.\n ...Shortly after the killing of the Tartars in our village, the revolution\n in Russia was suppressed.\"\n\np. 97 (third paragraph)\n\n\"Within a few years, following the beginning of the movement, an invisible\n government of Armenians by Armenians had been established in Turkish \n Armenia in armed opposition to the Turkish Government. This secret \n government had its own courts and laws and an army of assassins called\n 'Mauserists' (professional killers) to enforce its decrees.\"\n\np. 98 (first paragraph)\n\n\"The Dashnacks were in continual open rebellion against the Turkish \n Government.\"\n\np. 98 (third paragraph)\n\n\"...the Dashnacks engineered a general revolt of Armenians in Turkish\n Armenia under the mistaken belief that European nations would intervene\n and secure independence for Turkish Armenia.\"\n\np. 99 (second paragraph)\n\n\"The Dashnacks were fanatics.\" \n\np. 99 (third paragraph)\n\n\"The Dashnacks took advantage of this situation and extended their \n revolutionary activities into the Russian province. They instituted \n a campaign of terrorism and employed threats and force in securing\n contributions to the party funds from rich Armenians. A wealthy\n man would be assessed a stipulated sum. Refusal to pay brought upon\n him a sentence of death. \n\n Every member of the party was pledged to carry out orders without \n question. If a man were to be assassinated, lots might be drawn to\n select an executioner or the job might be assigned to one of the\n 'mauserists' of the party.\"\n\np. 130 (first paragraph)\n\n\"...in moments of victory against Turks and Kurds or Tartars, they \n [Armenians] have been remorseless in seeking vengeance.\"\n\np. 130 (third paragraph)\n\n\"The city was a scene of confusion and terror. During the early days of \n the war, when the Russian troops invaded Turkey, large numbers of the \n Turkish population abandoned their homes and fled before the Russian \n advance.\"\n\np. 159 (second paragraph)\n\n\"I made a cannon, a huge gun to lift which required four men. I made balls\n for it. With my cannon the Armenians could knock down any of the Tartar\n houses and so they were able to drive the Tartars out.\"\n\np. 181 (first paragraph)\n\n\"The Tartar villages were in ruins.\"\n\np. 189 (third paragraph)\n\n\"The dead Tartar lay with his head in a pool of mud and blood, his \n beard still setaceous and now crimsoned.\"\n\nSerdar Argic", "Serdar, I have been told that you are not real, your account is fake (which I \nconfirmed by trying to E-mail you) and advised not to waste my time writing to \n\"you\". But, I get pleasure from watching you make a fool of yourself. \n\n\nSo you stand by the statement that all Armenians are barbarians. OK, I see. \nLets not even act as if there is a chance they are human. See Serdar, when you \njudge people because of their race this is called racism. I tend to frown on \nthis sort of thing. Obviously you don't. When you label an entire race the \nway you do, it is easy to stop thinking of them as human beings, and this can \nmake GENOCIDE possible. But I guess (and this is where Serdar will fill the \npage with quotes taken out of context) you know that, huh?\nDon't you find it weak that all of Serdars enemies are \nFascist/NAZI/barbarian/_________fill in the blank with any catch all bad term.\n\n\nPublic knowlege? I was not aware of that. NOW I see, the ARMENIANS decide to \nkill the Israeli athletes in 1972 as PRACTICE. I was confused, but thanks for \nclearing that up.\n\nWow, you are on a roll with the accusations today Serdar, so how did the \nArmenians steal from the Turkish children? Was it their lunch money? This is \nvery cute how you inserted children in this fill in the blank accusation sheet \nyou fill out every day. It really touches my heart. Oh and thank you for \nletting me know that Kurds and Armenians hate each other. I was not aware of \nthis. The only time I have ever talked about Kurds it was about the WONDERFUL \ntreatment they were recieving in Turkey. They must have a high incedence of \ninsanity because there sure are a lot of them fighting against the \nnon-oppresive Turkish government that has let their culture flower over the \npast 70 years.\n\n\nThanks for the unbiased TURKISH MEDIA SOURCE. I am sure the Milliyet is rated \nnumber one for accuracy and truth.\n\n\nInnocent? Is that what terrorists call their victims? I have never heard of \nterrorists calling their victims innocent. \"Yes, folks in other news the IRA \npublic relations department reported that it had killed 20 innocent victims in \na car bombing... \" Nope Serdar, I don't think so.\n \nOops you almost forgot to fill in the \"Say something about Turks being killed \nby Armenians here\" section of your note.\n", "\n\nDon't swallow propaganda as truth Sir. British promised to Venizelos\n(greek PM) that mainly greek populated areas of the Ottomans will be\ngiven to Greece, _if_ he will agree to drag Greece in the side of\nthe British during the WWI (because the greek King was proGerman).\nThe British succeeded by bombarding Athens (1916), killing quite a few,\nforcing abdication of the King, division of Greece into two separate\nstates (North-South), and finally laying the ground for the most disasterous\ndivision between greeks for our century.(So don't feel bitter that the\n\"Allies\" gave any green light because they liked us....)\n\nAnyway, the British succeed to establish Venizelos, war starts at a second\nfront against the Germans in the south while they were fighting the war\nin the East against the Russians, and finally the WWII came in an end.\nAfter that the British (and French) forgot immediately their promises\n(as usually). Even though publicly they say that they support the Greek\ncause, practically they not only do nothing, but instead, using some usual\n\"reasoning\" and other crap rhetoric as a pretext, they gradually\nbackup Kemal (who had given now to the British \"water and bread\" that\nhe will dissolve the superethnic Ottoman and contract it into a small\nethnic-state). The main drive behind this British switch was the plan\nto keep a Muslim state in the region as buffer against a Russian expansion\ninto warm-water facilities. The \"greek empire\" being an Orthodox Christian\nstate was too prone to become Russian client.\n\nOut of this intrigue, the current state of affairs was established on our\nlands. While Venizelos and Kemal were promoted as true \"Giants\" by the\nBritish, since they worked to realize their goals in the region.\nUnder the same plan, currently Greece and Turkey are recipients of big\nmilitary funds from the US; both they are functioning as anti-Russian\nbuffers, while simultaneously both remain good clients of State Dept. because\notherwise the use of terror of changing \"the balance of power in the Aegean\"\nwill be used.\n\nUnder the same exact rational you should see the Cyprus problem.\n\nGr", "\n\nLet me clearify Mr. Turkish;", "May 13, 1993 _Five Russian soldiers sentenced to death in Azerbaijan_\n \nMOSCOW (UPI) -- Five soldiers who served in Russia's 7th army stationed in\nArmenia were sentenced to death in the Azerbaijani capital Baku Thursday for\nallegedly \"carrying out diversions and killing 30 Azeri soldiers.\" \n\nA statement released by the news service of Azeri President Abulfaz Elchibey\nsaid \"the sentence was final and was not subject to protest or appeal,\" the \nRussian state news agency Itar-tass reported. \n\nBut the Russian Foreign Ministry issued an appeal for the men to be handed\nover to the authorities in Moscow for punishment. \n\n\"This would accord with modern standards of humanity towards those who have\ncommitted crimes,\" the statement reads. \n\nThe five men, together with another soldier who received a 15-year prison\nsentence, were captured in September 1992 by Azeri police in the Kelbadzhar\ndistrict of Azerbaijan, between Nagorno-Karabakh and Armenia. \n\nThe Supreme Court in Baku said the men had gone through special training in a\ncompany of the Russian 7th army in the Armenian capital Yerevan, after which\nthey were sent across the Armenian-Azeri border into Nagorno-Karabakh to \ncarry out diversions against Azeri troops. \n\nHowever, the Russian Foreign Ministry statement claimed they had deserted the\nRussian army and were fighting as mercenaries with Armenian armed forces in\nthe battle zone round Karabakh. \n\nNagorno-Karabakh is an Armenian-populated enclave within Azerbaijan which for\nfive years has been fighting for independence from Baku in a war that has\nleft many thousands dead and uprooted hundreds of thousands from their homes. \n\nBoth Yerevan and Baku have always claimed that Russian servicemen stationed\nin these Caucasian republics, who were left behind after the break-up of the \nSoviet Union, are fighting as mercenaries in the Karabakh war. \n\nThe statement from Moscow said the Russian side repeatedly appealed to the\nAzerbaijani government to show humanity and leniency in their treatment of the\nsix men, and to hand them over to the Russian authorities. \n\nIt said that President Boris Yeltsin himself sent a letter with this request \nto his Azeri counterpart Elchibey. Itar-tass said that the soldiers' defense\nattorneys had lodged an appeal for clemency. \n \n \n", "Source: \"Men Are Like That\" by Leonard Ramsden Hartill. The Bobbs-Merrill\nCompany, Indianapolis (1926). (305 pages). \n(Memoirs of an Armenian officer who participated in the genocide of 2.5 \n million Muslim people)\n\np. 193.\n\n\"Their [Muslim] villages were destroyed and they themselves were slain or \n driven out of the country.\"\n\np. 218. \n\n\"We Armenians did not spare the Tartars. If persisted in, the slaughtering \n of prisoners, the looting, and the rape and massacre of the helpless become \n commonplace actions expected and accepted as a matter of course.\n\n I have been on the scenes of massacres where the dead lay on the ground,\n in numbers, like the fallen leaves in a forest. They had been as helpless\n and as defenseless as sheep. They had not died as soldiers die in the\n heat of battle, fired with ardor and courage, with weapons in their hands,\n and exchanging blow for blow. They had died as the helpless must, with\n their hearts and brains bursting with horror worse than death itself.\"\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "In Turkish Genocide Apology <9304261739@zuma.UUCP> as scribed by its servile\ndolt sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic) we read a response to article <1993Apr26.\n175246.24412@colorado.edu> perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman) who\n\n[EP] This has been discussed before, by several people, on this net. The\n[EP] statement is attributable either to Hajj Amin al-Husseini, former Grand\n[EP] Mufti of Jerusalem - and the leader of the Palestinian death squads\n[EP] during the 1948 war, or to one of his chief henchmen. \n\n[(*] In Russia General Dro (the Butcher), the architect of the Turkish\n[(*] genocide in WWI, was working closely with the German Secret \n[(*] Service. He entered the war zone with his own men and acquired\n[(*] important intelligence about the Soviets. His experience with\n[(*] the Turkish genocide in x-Soviet Armenia made him an invaluable \n[(*] source for the Germans.[2]\n\nWhat a fool! For the above to be true, [which it is not] the WWI Russian\nGeneral Dro must have worked from his grave to assist x-Soviet Armenia.\nSoviet Armenia became ex-Soviet Armenia in 1991 and Dro died in 1958! Then\nDro would have to travel back in time, while dead, from 1991 to WWII to help\nNazi Germany!\n\n", "\n\n\nSource: A. Alper Gazigiray, \"Osmanlilardan Gunumuze Kadar Vesikalarla \n Ermeni Teroru'nun Kaynaklari,\" Gozen Kitabevi, Istanbul, 1982.\n\npp. 267-268.\n\n\"Van'dan sonra ilk isyan Sebinkarahisar'da basladi. 1915 senesi 5 \n haziran da, Sivasli Murat [Hamparsum Boyaciyan - sa] denilen bir \n caninin emri altinda 500 kadar cete Sebinkarahisari basti. Burasi o \n zaman en onemli askeri bir yerdi. Erzurum bolgesinde Rus ordusu ile \n savasan Osmanli Ordularinin butun ikmal araclari buradan gecmekte idi. \n Ermeniler boyle onemli bir yer isgal ettikleri takdirde Turk \n ordularinin ikmali yapilamayacak ve Rus Ordularinin harekati \n kolaylasacakti. Sebinkarahisarin islam mahalleleri tamamen atese \n verildi. Her rastlanan Turk iskence ile olduruldu.\n\n Mus'da ayni sekilde isyan devam ediyordu. Sason daglari Ermeni \n eskiyalariyla dolu idi. Bu isyanlari, ordunun arkasini vurmak ve Rus \n Ordusunun ilerlemesini saglamak icin Ermenilerin pasa dedikleri Rupen \n idare ediyordu. Bundan baska, Rus Ordularinin Rus - Turk sinirindan \n gecerek Turk topraklarina girdikleri bu safhada Rus Ordusu icinde \n bulunan Ermeni gonullu alaylariyla Rus Ordularinin isgali altina giren \n Ermeni koylerindeki silahli halk, Turk koylerine hucum ederek bu \n koyleri yakip yikmislar ve Turk halkini hatira gelmeyen mezalim ve \n iskence ile oldurmulerdir. \n\np. 285.\n\n\"Bu suretle sehirde 23 gun cok kanli olaylar cereyan etti, bu sure \n sonunda Van, Ermeniler tarafindan tamamen isgal olundu. Buradan \n kacabilen Turklerin, Ermenilerin davranislari hakkinda verdikleri \n haberler tuyler urpertici idi. Cunku isyancilar halkin cogunu oldurmus,\n kadinlarin irzina gecmis, Turk kadin ve kizlarini bazi evlerde \n topladiktan sonra buralarini Genelev haline getirmislerdir. O zaman \n Van'da 1500 kadar kadin ve cocuktan baska Turk kalmamis, bunlari da \n oradaki Amerikalilar korumustur. Sehir bastan basa harab olmus, carsi \n kamilen yanmisti.\"\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n These zealots. Holy fuck.\n\n Israel. Armenia. Turkey. Greece. Croatia. Serbia. Bosnia. Russia. Germany.\nIran. The Arab World.\n\n War.\n\n", "Source: \"World Alive, A Personal Story\" by Robert Dunn. Crown Publishers, \nInc., New York (1952). \n(Memoirs of an American officer who witnessed the Armenian genocide of 2.5 \n million Muslim people)\n\np. 360.\n\n\"At length all shooting petered out. I got on my horse and rode down toward\n Djul. It burned still but little flame showed now. The way was steep and \n tough, through dense scrub. Finally on flatter ground I came out suddenly,\n through alders, on smoldering houses. Across trampled wheat my brothers-in-\n arms were leading off animals, several calves and a lamb.\"\n\np. 361 (fourth paragraph).\n\n\"Corpses came next, the first a pretty child with straight black hair, \n large eyes. She looked about twelve years old. She lay in some stubble \n where meal lay scattered from the sack she'd been toting. The bayonet \n had gone through her back, I judged, for blood around was scant. Between \n the breasts one clot, too small for a bullet wound, crusted her homespun \n dress.\n\n The next was a boy of ten or less, in rawhide jacket and knee-pants. He \n lay face down in the path by several huts. One arm reached out to the \n pewter bowl he'd carried, now upset upon its dough. Steel had jabbed \n just below his neck, into the spine. \n\n There were grownups, too, I saw as I led the sorrel around. Djul was \n empty of the living till I looked up to see beside me Dro's German-speaking \n colonel. He said all Tartars who had not escaped were dead.\"\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nDo you have a terminal cold? Karabag is 'Turkish' and will remain \n'Turkish'. Here we are, almost at the end of the 20th century, and \na whole community, the Azeri Turks of x-Soviet Armenia and Karabag, \nis facing forced assimilation, torture and murder on one hand and \nforced exodus, expulsion and genocide on the other, all because \nof their ethnic and religious background. And one should ask herself: \nis the world community really so powerless? Where are all those human \nrights advocates? Where are all the decent people? Are we going to \nlet this human tragedy go on and do nothing about it? The number\nof Azeris murdered by the terrorist Armenian army and its savage\ngangs is increasing. On the one hand they wish to distort the truth\nand on the other, they beg mercy from Turkiye.\n\n The Age...Melbourne...6/3/92\n\n By Helen WOMACK .... Agdam, Azerbaijan, Thursday\n\n The exact number of victims is still unclear, but there can be \n little doubt that Azeri civilians were massacred by Armenian \n fighters in the snowy mountains of Nagorno-Karabakh last week. \n\n Refugees from the enclave town of Khojaly, sheltering in the \n Azeri border town of Agdam, give largely consistent accounts of \n how their enemies attacked their homes on the night of 25 \n February, chased those who fled and shot them in the \n surrounding forests. Yesterday, I saw 75 freshly dug graves in \n one cemetery in addition to four mutilated corpses we were \n shown in the mosque when we arrived in Agdam late on Tuesday. I \n also saw women and children with bullet wounds in a makeshift \n hospital in a string of railway carriages. \n\n Khojaly, an Azeri settlement in the enclave mostly populated by \n Armenians, had a population of about 6000. Mr. Rashid Mamedov \n Commander of Police in Agdam, said only about 500 escaped to \n his town. \" So where are the rest?\". Some might have taken \n prisoner, he said, or fled. Many bodies were still lying in the \n mountains because the Azeris were short of helicopters to \n retrieve them. He believed more than 1000 had perished, some of \n cold in temperatures as low as minus 10 degrees. \n\n One refugee, Rami Nasiru, described how Khojaly residents at \n first thought the attack was no more than the routine shooting \n to which they had become accustomed in four years of conflict. \n But when they saw the Armenians with a convoy of armored \n personnel carriers, they realised they could not hope to defend \n themselves with machineguns and grenades, and fled into the \n forests. In the small hours, the massacre started. \n\n Mr. Nasiru, who believes his wife and two children were taken \n prisoner, repeated what many other refugees have said - that \n troops of the former Soviet army helped the Armenians to attack \n Khojaly. \"It is not my opinion, I saw it with my own eyes.\" \n\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\n\n\nYou are somewhat close to truth. But you shouldn't forget that\nnationality is a recent invention of the western europe. In the\ndays of the Ottoman empire, the religion was the main point of\ndifference between social classes. The Ottomans didn't recognize\nTurks, Arabs, Greeks, Serbs... Just christians, muslims, jews...\nSo, for all the interested parties in the Ottoman society the\nbosnian muslims were \"Turks\". After all, there aren't many \"real\" \n(ethnic) Turks living even in Turkey today. Even in Europe, it's\nthe culture that defines the ethnicity and religion is part of\none's culture.\n\n\nCan you support this?", "Turkish Genocide Apology in revision <9304261646@zuma.UUCP> posted via its\n\n[fool] Thanks to those who joined millions of Turkish and Kurdish people \n[fool] on April 23, 1993 when they remembered, mourned and prayed for 2.5 \n[fool] million Muslim people who were ruthlessly exterminated by the fascist \n[fool] x-Soviet Armenian Government between 1914 and 1920.\n\nI tend to doubt this for there was no ex-Soviet Armenian government between\n1914 and 1920! Revisionist, liar, AND fool!\n\n\n", "\n\nThe fascist x-Soviet Armenian Government also hired mercenaries\nto slaughter Azeris this time.\n\n\nFinally...about time...\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "From article <1993Apr15.092101@IASTATE.EDU>, by tankut@IASTATE.EDU (Sabri T Atan):\n\nThere were a couple millions of Greeks living in Asia Minor until 1923.\nSomeone had to protect them. If not us who??\n\nCompromise on what, the invasion of Cyprus, the involment of Turkey in\nGreek politics, the refusal of Turkey to accept 12 miles of territorial\nwaters as stated by international law, the properties of the Greeks of \nKonstantinople, the ownership of the islands in the Greek lake,sorry, Aegean.\n\nThere are some things on which there can not be a compromise.\n\n\n\nAny person who supports the policies of the Turkish goverment directly or\nindirecly is a \"bad\" person.\nIt is not your nationality that makes you bad, it is your support of the\nactions of your goverment that make you \"bad\".\nPeople do not hate you because of who you are but because of what you\nare. You are a supporter of the policies of the Turkish goverment and\nas a such you must pay the price.\n\n\nYou do not need brainwashing to turn people against the Turks. Just talk to\nGreeks, Arabs, Slavs, Kurds and all other people who had the luck to be under\nTurkish occupation.\nThey will talk to you about murders,rapes,distruction.\n\nYou do not learn about Turks from history books, you learn about them from\npeople who experienced first hand Turkish friendliness.", "\n\n\nDon't be so vague. Let us reexamine it - shall we?\n\n\n \n\nHere you descend into total inanity. Your inability to distinguish\nbetween 'the cold-blooded genocide of Muslim people by the Armenians' \nand 'the Armenian war' is incredible. Now, please provide us with your \ncorrections.\n\nSource: Stanford J. Shaw, on Armenian collaboration with invading Russian\narmies in 1914, \"History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey (Volume\nII: Reform, Revolution & Republic: The Rise of Modern Turkey, 1808-1975).\"\n(London, Cambridge University Press 1977). pp. 315-316.\n\n\"In April 1915 Dashnaks from Russian Armenia organized a revolt in the city \n of Van, whose 33,789 Armenians comprised 42.3 percent of the population, \n closest to an Armenian majority of any city in the Empire...Leaving Erivan \n on April 28, 1915, Armenian volunteers reached Van on May 14 and organized \n and carried out a general slaughter of the local Muslim population during \n the next two days.\"\n\n\"Knowing their numbers would never justify their territorial ambitions,\n Armenians looked to Russia and Europe for the fulfillment of their aims.\n Armenian treachery in this regard culminated at the beginning of the First\n World War with the decision of the revolutionary organizations to refuse\n to serve their state, the Ottoman Empire, and to assist instead other\n invading Russian armies. Their hope was their participation in the Russian\n success would be rewarded with an independent Armenian state carved out of\n Ottoman territories. Armenian political leaders, army officers, and common\n soldiers began deserting in droves.\"\n\n\"With the Russian invasion of eastern Anatolia in 1914 at the beginning of\n World War I, the degree of Armenian collaboration with the Ottoman's enemy\n increased drastically. Ottoman supply lines were cut by guerilla attacks,\n Armenian revolutionaries armed Armenian civil populations, who in turn\n massacred the Muslim population of the province of Van in anticipation of\n expected arrival of the invading Russian armies.\"\n\n\"...Meanwhile, Czar Nicholas II himself came to the Caucasus to make final\n plans for cooperation with the Armenians against the Ottomans, with the \n president of the Armenian National Bureau in Tiflis declaring in response:\n\n 'From all countries Armenians are hurrying to enter the ranks of the \n glorious Russian Army, with their blood to serve the victory of Russian\n arms...Let the Russian flag wave freely over the Dardanelles and the\n Bosporus. Let, with Your will, great Majesty, the peoples remaining\n under the Turkish yoke receive freedom. Let the Armenian people of Turkey\n who have suffered for the faith of Christ receive resurrection for a new\n free life under the protection of Russia.'[155]\n\nArmenians again flooded into the czarist armies. Preparations were made\nto strike the Ottomans from the rear, and the czar returned to St. Petersburg\nconfident that the day finally had come for him to reach Istanbul.\"\n\n[155] Horizon, Tiflis, November 30, 1914, quoted by Hovannisian, \"Road to\nIndependence,\" p. 45; FO 2485, 2484/46942, 22083.\n\n\"Ottoman morale and military position in the east were seriously hurt, and\n the way was prepared for a new Russian push into eastern Anatolia, to be\n accompanied by an open Armenian revolt against the sultan.[156]\"\n\n[156] Hovannisian, \"Road to Independence,\" pp. 45-47; Bayur, III/1, \npp. 349-380; W.E.D. Allen and P. Muratoff, \"Caucasian Battlefields,\"\nCambridge, 1953, pp. 251-277; Ali Ihsan Sabis, \"Harb Hahralaram,\" 2 vols.,\nAnkara, 1951, II, 41-160; FO 2146 no. 70404; FO 2485; FO 2484, nos.\n46942 and 22083.\n\n\"An Armenian state was organized at Van under Russian protection, and it \n appeared that with the Muslim natives dead or driven away, it might be\n able to maintain itself at one of the oldest centers of ancient Armenian\n civilization. An Armenian legion was organized 'to expel the Turks from\n the entire southern shore of the lake in preparation for a concerted\n Russian drive into the Bitlis vilayet.'[162] Thousands of Armenians from\n Mus and other major centers in the east began to flood into the new \n Armenian state...By mid-July there were as many as 250,000 Armenians\n crowded into the Van area, which before the crisis had housed and fed\n no more than 50,000 people, Muslim and non-Muslim alike.[163]\"\n\n[162] Hovannisian, \"Road to Independence,\" p. 56; FOP 2488, nos. 127223 and\n58350.\n\n[163] BVA, Meclis-i Vukela Mazbatalari, debates of August 15-17, 1915; \nBabi-i Ali Evrak Odasi, no. 175, 321, \"Van Ihtilali ve Katl-i Ami,\"\nZilkade 1333/10 September 1915.\n\n\nI went through this just a few weeks ago; here it comes again. The \nentire Turkish population of Armenia (which Armenians called Tartars) \nconstituted at least about 40% of the total population of Armenia \nwas deliberately exterminated. (For the population statistics, please \nlook to the book of Richard Hovannessian, \"Armenia on the Road to \nIndependence.\") I listed three books earlier of such a monstrous crime \nby the writings of one Armenian, one American, and one British. They \nare: \"Men Are Like That\" by Leonard R. Hartill; \"Adventures in the Near \nEast\" by A. Rawlinson; \"World Alive, A Personal Story\" by Robert Dunn. \nAlso, I personally have copies of documents of this crime by the writings \nof two Armenians and also one American. The official British report about \nthis massacre mentioned in one of these documents (Lord Curzon-Aharonin \ninterview) is the report of the British High Commissioner to Caucasia, \nSir Oliver Wardrop.\n\n\n\"An appropriate analogy with the Jewish Holocaust might be the\n systematic extermination of the entire Muslim population of \n the independent republic of Armenia which consisted of at \n least 30-40 percent of the population of that republic. The \n memoirs of an Armenian army officer who participated in and \n eye-witnessed these atrocities was published in the U.S. in\n 1926 with the title 'Men Are Like That.' Other references abound.\"\n (Rachel A. Bortnick - The Jewish Times - June 21, 1990)\n\nNeed I go on?\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nOfranko. Coming from a self-exposed historical revisionist, a \nself-admitted anti-Muslim and a genocide apologist, Hamaza should \ntake your drivel as a compliment. Furthermore, you even deny the \nobvious. There was a genocide of the Muslims carried out by order of \nthe fascist x-Soviet Armenian Government. Massacres of Muslims must be \nstudied in detail, because they are the first modern example of the \nhorrible crime of genocide. Blame must be apportioned to the Armenians\nand their supporters for the murder of Muslims. The Turkish historic \nhomeland, emptied of its native population until today, remains occupied \nby the x-Soviet Armenian Government. Today, x-Soviet Armenia covers up \nthe genocide perpetrated by its predecessors and is therefore an accessory \nto this crime against humanity. x-Soviet Armenia must pay for its crime \nof genocide against the Muslims by admitting to the crime and making \nreparations to the Turks and Kurds.\n\nThe following are the Jewish and Armenian sources on the cold-blooded\ngenocide perpetrated by the x-Soviet Armenian Government against 2.5\nmillion Muslim people between 1914 and 1920. Still denying the obvious?\n\n\nSource: Stanford J. Shaw, on Armenian collaboration with invading Russian\narmies in 1914, \"History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey (Volume\nII: Reform, Revolution & Republic: The Rise of Modern Turkey, 1808-1975).\"\n(London, Cambridge University Press 1977). pp. 315-316.\n\n\"In April 1915 Dashnaks from Russian Armenia organized a revolt in the city \n of Van, whose 33,789 Armenians comprised 42.3 percent of the population, \n closest to an Armenian majority of any city in the Empire...Leaving Erivan \n on April 28, 1915, Armenian volunteers reached Van on May 14 and organized \n and carried out a general slaughter of the local Muslim population during \n the next two days.\"\n\n\"Knowing their numbers would never justify their territorial ambitions,\n Armenians looked to Russia and Europe for the fulfillment of their aims.\n Armenian treachery in this regard culminated at the beginning of the First\n World War with the decision of the revolutionary organizations to refuse\n to serve their state, the Ottoman Empire, and to assist instead other\n invading Russian armies. Their hope was their participation in the Russian\n success would be rewarded with an independent Armenian state carved out of\n Ottoman territories. Armenian political leaders, army officers, and common\n soldiers began deserting in droves.\"\n\n\"With the Russian invasion of eastern Anatolia in 1914 at the beginning of\n World War I, the degree of Armenian collaboration with the Ottoman's enemy\n increased drastically. Ottoman supply lines were cut by guerilla attacks,\n Armenian revolutionaries armed Armenian civil populations, who in turn\n massacred the Muslim population of the province of Van in anticipation of\n expected arrival of the invading Russian armies.\"\n\n\nSource: Stanford J. Shaw, \"History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey,\"\n Vol II. Cambridge University Press, London, 1979, pp. 314-317.\n\n\"...Meanwhile, Czar Nicholas II himself came to the Caucasus to make final\n plans for cooperation with the Armenians against the Ottomans, with the \n president of the Armenian National Bureau in Tiflis declaring in response:\n\n 'From all countries Armenians are hurrying to enter the ranks of the \n glorious Russian Army, with their blood to serve the victory of Russian\n arms...Let the Russian flag wave freely over the Dardanelles and the\n Bosporus. Let, with Your will, great Majesty, the peoples remaining\n under the Turkish yoke receive freedom. Let the Armenian people of Turkey\n who have suffered for the faith of Christ receive resurrection for a new\n free life under the protection of Russia.'[155]\n\nArmenians again flooded into the czarist armies. Preparations were made\nto strike the Ottomans from the rear, and the czar returned to St. Petersburg\nconfident that the day finally had come for him to reach Istanbul.\"\n\n[155] Horizon, Tiflis, November 30, 1914, quoted by Hovannisian, \"Road to\nIndependence,\" p. 45; FO 2485, 2484/46942, 22083.\n\n\"Ottoman morale and military position in the east were seriously hurt, and\n the way was prepared for a new Russian push into eastern Anatolia, to be\n accompanied by an open Armenian revolt against the sultan.[156]\"\n\n[156] Hovannisian, \"Road to Independence,\" pp. 45-47; Bayur, III/1, \npp. 349-380; W.E.D. Allen and P. Muratoff, \"Caucasian Battlefields,\"\nCambridge, 1953, pp. 251-277; Ali Ihsan Sabis, \"Harb Hahralaram,\" 2 vols.,\nAnkara, 1951, II, 41-160; FO 2146 no. 70404; FO 2485; FO 2484, nos.\n46942 and 22083.\n\n\"An Armenian state was organized at Van under Russian protection, and it \n appeared that with the Muslim natives dead or driven away, it might be\n able to maintain itself at one of the oldest centers of ancient Armenian\n civilization. An Armenian legion was organized 'to expel the Turks from\n the entire southern shore of the lake in preparation for a concerted\n Russian drive into the Bitlis vilayet.'[162] Thousands of Armenians from\n Mus and other major centers in the east began to flood into the new \n Armenian state...By mid-July there were as many as 250,000 Armenians\n crowded into the Van area, which before the crisis had housed and fed\n no more than 50,000 people, Muslim and non-Muslim alike.[163]\"\n\n[162] Hovannisian, \"Road to Independence,\" p. 56; FOP 2488, nos. 127223 and\n58350.\n\n[163] BVA, Meclis-i Vukela Mazbatalari, debates of August 15-17, 1915; \nBabi-i Ali Evrak Odasi, no. 175, 321, \"Van Ihtilali ve Katl-i Ami,\"\nZilkade 1333/10 September 1915.\n\n\nSource: Hovannisian, Richard G.: Armenia on the Road to Independence, 1918.\nUniversity of California Press (Berkeley and Los Angeles), 1967, p. 13.\n\n\"The addition of the Kars and Batum oblasts to the Empire increased the\n area of Transcaucasia to over 130,000 square miles. The estimated population\n of the entire region in 1886 was 4,700,000, of whom 940,000 (20 percent) were\n Armenian, 1,200,000 (25 percent) Georgian, and 2,220,000 (45 percent) Moslem.\n Of the latter group, 1,140,000 were Tatars. Paradoxically, barely one-third\n of Transcaucasia's Armenians lived in the Erevan guberniia, where the \n Christians constituted a majority in only three of the seven uezds. Erevan\n uezd, the administrative center of the province, had only 44,000 Armenians\n as compared to 68,000 Moslems. By the time of the Russian Census of 1897,\n however, the Armenians had established a scant majority, 53 percent, in the\n guberniia; it had risen by 1916 to 60 percent, or 670,000 of the 1,120,000\n inhabitants. This impressive change in the province's ethnic character \n notwithstanding, there was, on the eve of the creation of the Armenian \n Republic, a solid block of 370,000 Tartars who continued to dominate the \n southern districts, from the outskirts of Ereven to the border of Persia.\" \n (See also Map 1. Historic Armenia and Map 4. Administrative subdivisions of \n Transcaucasia).\n\nIn 1920, '0' percent Turk. \n\n\"We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as \n ways of escape for the Tartars and then proceeded in the work \n of extermination. Our troops surrounded village after village. \n Little resistance was offered. Our artillery knocked the huts \n into heaps of stone and dust and when the villages became untenable \n and inhabitants fled from them into fields, bullets and bayonets \n completed the work. Some of the Tartars escaped of course. They \n found refuge in the mountains or succeeded in crossing the border \n into Turkey. The rest were killed. And so it is that the whole \n length of the borderland of Russian Armenia from Nakhitchevan to \n Akhalkalaki from the hot plains of Ararat to the cold mountain \n plateau of the North were dotted with mute mournful ruins of \n Tartar villages. They are quiet now, those villages, except for \n howling of wolves and jackals that visit them to paw over the \n scattered bones of the dead.\" \n\n Ohanus Appressian\n \"Men Are Like That\"\n p. 202.\n\n\n\"An appropriate analogy with the Jewish Holocaust might be the\n systematic extermination of the entire Muslim population of \n the independent republic of Armenia which consisted of at \n least 30-40 percent of the population of that republic. The \n memoirs of an Armenian army officer who participated in and \n eye-witnessed these atrocities was published in the U.S. in\n 1926 with the title 'Men Are Like That.' Other references abound.\"\n (Rachel A. Bortnick - The Jewish Times - June 21, 1990)\n\n\n 1.\"Men Are Like That\" by Leonard A. Hartill, Bobbs Co., Indianapolis, \n 1926\n\n Memoirs of an Armenian Army Officer translated to English and\n published by a member of American \"Near East Relief Organization.\"\n Gives the whole account of the genocide of all Turkish and Moslem\n people in Armenia organized and executed by Armenian Government and\n Army. Also gives account of countless other massacres and atrocities\n against the Turkish people in Armenia.\n\n 2.\"Adventures in the Near East, 1918-22\" by A. Rawlinson,\n Dodd, Meade & Co., 1925\n\n Eyewitness account of the same genocide by a British Army Officer.\n\n 3.\"World Alive, A Personal Story\" by Robert Dunn,\n Crown Publishers, Inc., New York, 1952\n\n Another eyewitness account of the same genocide by an American \n Officer.\n\n 4.\"From Sardarapat to Serves and Lousanne\" by Avetis Aharonian,\n The Armenian Review Magazine, Volume 15 (Fall 1962) through 17 \n (Spring 1964)\n\n Memoirs of the chief Armenian delegate to the Paris Peace Conference\n were published in the Armenian Review Magazine in 13 articles from\n Volume 15 (Fall 1962) to Volume 17 (Spring 1964). These memoirs \n include an interview between Aharonian and British Foreign Minister \n Lord Curzon in which above-mentioned genocide was discussed. The \n official report mentioned by Lord Curzon is the report of British \n High Commissioner to Caucasia, Sir Oliver Wardrop.\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "\nhenrik] My response to the \"shooting down\" of a Turkish airplane over the \nhenrik] Armenian air space was because of the IGNORANT posting of the \nhenrik] person from your Country. Turks and Azeris consistantly WANT to \nhenrik] drag ARMENIA into the KARABAKH conflict with Azerbaijan. The \nhenrik] KARABAKHI-ARMENIANS who have lived in their HOMELAND for 3000 \nhenrik] years (CUT OFF FROM ARMENIA and GIVEN TO AZERIS BY STALIN) are \nhenrik] the ones DIRECTLY involved in the CONFLICT. They are defending \nhenrik] themselves against AZERI AGGRESSION. Agression that has NO MERCY \nhenrik] for INOCENT people that are costantly SHELLED with MIG-23's and \nhenrik] othe Russian aircraft. \n\nhenrik] At last, I hope that the U.S. insists that Turkey stay out of the \nhenrik] KARABAKH crisis so that the repeat of the CYPRUS invasion WILL \nhenrik] NEVER OCCUR again.\n\nDA] Armenia is involved in fighting with Azarbaijan. It is Armenian\nDA] soldiers from mainland Armenia that are shelling towns in Azarbaijan.\n\n Well, this is your opinion ! \n\n Turkish/ Azeris can BARK all they WANT since the ABOVE is UNTRUE. However, \n I am sure YOU GUYS would have NEVER brought up ARMENIA's involvement if \n KARABAKHI-Armenians had had HEAVY losses.\n\n\nDA] You might wish to read more about whether or not it is Azeri aggression\nDA] only in that region. It seems to me that the Armenians are better\nDA] organized, have more success militarily and shell Azeri towns\nDA] repeatedly. \n\n\tRead what ? The New York Times , that is publishing anti-armenian\n\tarticles. Nop, I have my resources. Look, everyone knows how aggressive\n Turks/Azeris have been in the past. Armenians ARE NOT gona sit\n\taround and watch FIRE WORKS by AZERIS taught by TURKS. \n\nDA] It seems to me that the Armenians are better organized, have more success \nDA] militarily and shell Azeri towns repeatedly. \n\n\tBuch of non-sence CRAP and you know it. Who the hell you think\n you are talking to ? Azeris are FIGHTING LOCAL ARMENIANS in \n\tNagarno-Karabakh. You tell me who has more MIG's ? Freedom fighters\n in Nagarno-Karabakh or Azerbaijan ?\n\n\tAgain, I will say it for the last time, ARMENIA is NOT involved\n in this WAR and you guys WANT to bring this up in order to cover \n up the Turkish involvment in the Karabakh. Go ahead , REPEAT as \n\tmuch as you want. \n\nDA] I don't wish to get into the Cyprus discussion. Turkey had the right to\nDA] intervene, and it did. Perhaps the intervention was not supposed to\nDA] last for so long, but the constant refusal of the Greek governments both\nDA] on the island and in Greece to deal with reality is also to be blamed\nDA] for the ongoing standoff in the region. \n\n\tNot a chance ! You CAN NOT convince me (based on your REASONS)that \n\tyour GOVERNMENT did the RIGHT thing to invade CYPRUS. \n\nDA] Lastly, why is there not a soc.culture.armenia? I vote yes for it.\nDA] After all, it is now free. ", "\n\n\n No. I do not thing we are doing them a favor. I have simply stated that\n they are not treated as a second class citizens. That was my point.\n I fail to see how my words show discrimination. And what do you mean that\n they do not get nothing? Is, for example, helth insurance, food, and tuition\n nothing?\n\n\n I'm sorry, but I cannot see any logical order in the above argument.\n\n\n What part exactly is this one? The people cannot even sell their property\n if they want to leave Turkey. The patriarch could not get a permision to\n renovate some buildings for decades; it needed a special agreement between\n the two goverments for this. Talk about a part of the society? Why has the\n size of the Greek community reduced to 1,500 old people and priests then?\n\n\n Yeah, you bet.\n\n\n You are far off from the reality.\n", "Well everybody,\n\nAfter reading tons of notes by Serdar, I have come to the following conclusion. \nTurkey is PERFECT, and no Turk has ever made a mistake. He has proved to me at \nleast that the land occupied by Turkey today, was ALWAYS lived in peacefully by \nTurks. (Including Istanbul AKA Constantinople) They treat their minorities \nlike gods and have only done good while all of their evil neighbors attacked \nthem. Somehow, despite these evil neighbors capable of nothing but murder \ntheir population has exploded to almost 60 million in Turkey alone. (Note, \nArmenian worldwide population is approximately 7 million total) I want to go \nto this heaven on earth and meet the race that has made Serdar possible, that \nhas persevered, and has become a mecca for human rights lovers. (Amnesty \nInternational must have bad sources, Turkey would never torture its citizens, \ntreat minorities badly, or kidnap 7 foreign journalists last year alone, who \nincidentally are still missing), what I am trying to say is I WANT TO BE A \nTURK!!!!\n\nNow back to reality. I have once again been astounded by Serdars ability to \nignore all truth, all truly difficult questions, and go on to his encyclopedia \nof quotes and sources that can be pasted into any note BY THE PAGE! Anybody at \nall who has believed ANYTHING he has said, please step forward. Let him know \nhe hasn't been wasting his time, that SOMEBODY out there can be convinced by \nthe volume of e-mail you can produce, not the quality of the content. Well I am \noff now. I will go dream some more about that perfect place, that nirvana, \nthat utopia, that xanadu, that TURKEY! ", "\n\n\"Hate messages\" rather than \"facts\"? Sorry, but your argument falls\nflat on its face.\n\n\n SOME OF THE REFERENCES FROM EMINENT AUTHORS IN THE FIELD OF MIDDLE-EASTERN\n HISTORY AND EYEWITNESSES OF THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE OF 2.5 MILLION MUSLIMS\n\n1. \"The Armenian Revolutionary Movement\" by Louise Nalbandian,\n University of California Press, Berkeley, Los Angeles, 1975\n\n2. \"Diplomacy of Imperialism 1890-1902\" by William I. Lenger, Professor\n of History, Harward University, Boston, Alfred A. Knopt, New York, 1951\n\n3. \"Turkey in Europe\" by Sir Charles Elliot, \n Edward & Arnold, London, 1900\n\n4. \"The Chatnam House Version and Other Middle-Eastern Studies\" by\n Elie Kedouri, Praeger Publishers, New York, Washington, 1972\n\n5. \"The Rising Crescent\" by Ernest Jackh,\n Farrar & Reinhart, Inc., New York & Toronto, 1944\n\n6. \"Spiritual and Political Evolutions in Islam\" by Felix Valyi,\n Mogan, Paul, Trench & Truebner & Co., London, 1925\n\n7. \"The Struggle for Power in Moslem Asia\" by E. Alexander Powell,\n The Century Co., New York, London, 1924\n\n8. \"Struggle for Transcaucasia\" by Feruz Kazemzadeh,\n Yale University Press, New Haven, Conn., 1951\n\n9. \"History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey\" (2 volumes) by\n Stanford J. Shaw, Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, New York,\n Melbourne, 1977\n\n10.\"The Western Question in Greece and Turkey\" by Arnold J. Toynbee,\n Constable & Co., Ltd., London, Bombay & Sydney, 1922\n\n11.\"The Caliph's Last Heritage\" by Sir Mark Sykes,\n Macmillan & Co., London, 1915\n\n12.\"Men Are Like That\" by Leonard A. Hartill,\n Bobbs Co., Indianapolis, 1928\n\n13.\"Adventures in the Near East, 1918-22\" by A. Rawlinson,\n Dodd, Meade & Co., 1925\n\n14.\"World Alive, A Personal Story\" by Robert Dunn,\n Crown Publishers, Inc., New York, 1952\n\n15.\"From Sardarapat to Serves and Lousanne\" by Avetis Aharonian,\n The Armenian Review Magazine, Volume 15 (Fall 1962) through 17 \n (Spring 1964)\n\n16.\"Armenia on the Road to Independence\" by Richard G. Hovanessian,\n University of California Press, Berkeley, California, 1967\n\n17.\"The Rebirth of Turkey\" by Clair Price,\n Thomas Seltzer, New York, 1923\n\n18.\"Caucasian Battlefields\" by W. B. Allen & Paul Muratoff,\n Cambridge, 1953\n\n19.\"Partition of Turkey\" by Harry N. Howard,\n H. Fertig, New York, 1966\n \n20.\"The King-Crane Commission\" by Harry N. Howard,\n Beirut, 1963\n\n21.\"United States Policy and Partition of Turkey\" by Laurence Evans,\n John Hopkins University Press, Baltimore, 1965\n\n22.\"British Documents Related to Turkish War of Independence\" by Gothard \n Jaeschke\n \n1. Neside Kerem Demir, \"Bir Sehid Anasina Tarihin Soyledikleri: \n Turkiye'nin Ermeni Meselesi,\" Hulbe Basim ve Yayin T.A.S., \n Ankara, 1982. (Ingilizce Birinci Baski: 1980, \"The Armenian \n Question in Turkey\")\n\n2. Veysel Eroglu, \"Ermeni Mezalimi,\" Sebil Yayinevi, Istanbul, 1978.\n\n3. A. Alper Gazigiray, \"Osmanlilardan Gunumuze Kadar Vesikalarla Ermeni\n Teroru'nun Kaynaklari,\" Gozen Kitabevi, Istanbul, 1982.\n\n4. Dr. Kirzioglu M. Fahrettin, \"Kars Ili ve Cevresinde Ermeni Mezalimi,\"\n Kardes Matbaasi, Ankara, 1970. \n\nT.C. Basbakanlik Osmanli Arsivi, Babiali, Istanbul:\n\na) Yildiz Esas Evraki\nb) Yildiz Perakende\nc) Irade Defterleri\nd) Cemaat-i Gayr-i Muslime Defterleri\ne) Meclisi Vukela Mazbatalari\nf) Dahiliye Nezareti, Kalem-i Mahsus Dosyalari\ng) Dahiliye Nezareti, Sifre Defterleri\nh) Babiali Evrak Odasi: Siyasi Kartonlar\ni) Babiali Evrak Odasi: Muhimme Kartonlari\n\nT.C. Disisleri Bakanligi, Hazine-i Evrak, Defterdarlik \n\na) Harb-i Umumi\nb) Muteferrik Kartonlar\n\nBritish Archives:\n\na) Parliamentary Papers (Hansard): Commons/Lords\nb) Foreign Office: Confidential Print: Various Collections\nc) Foreign Office: 424/239-253: Turkey: Correspondence - Annual Reports\nd) Foreign Office: 608\ne) Foreign Office: 371, Political Intelligence: General Correspondence\nf) Foreign Office: 800/240, Ryan Papers\ng) Foreign Office: 800/151, Curzon Papers\nh) Foreign Office: 839: The Eastern Conference: Lausanne. 53 files\n\nIndia Office Records and Library, Blackfriars Road, London.\n\na) L/Political and Security/10/851-855 (five boxes), \"Turkey: Treaty of\n Peace: 1918-1923\"\nb) L/P & S/10/1031, \"Near East: Turkey and Greece: Lausanne Conference,\n 1921-1923\"\nc) L/P & S/11/154\nd) L/P & S/11/1031\n\nFrench Archives\n\nArchives du ministere des Affaires entrangeres, Quai d'Orsay, Paris.\n\na) Documents Diplomatiques: Affaires Armeniens: 1895-1914 Collections\nb) Guerre: 1914-1918: Turquie: Legion d'Orient.\nc) Levant, 1918-1929: Armenie.\n\n\nOfficial Publications, Published Documents, Diplomatic Correspondence,\nAgreements, Minutes and Others\n\nA. Turkey (The Ottoman Empire and The Republic of Turkey)\n\nAkarli, E. (ed.); \"Belgelerle Tanzimat,\" (istanbul, 1978).\n(Gn. Kur., ATASE); \"Askeri Tarih Belgeleri Dergisi,\" V. XXXI (81),\n(Dec. 1982).\n----; \"Askeri Tarih Belgeleri Dergisi,\" V. XXXII (83),\n(Dec. 1983).\nHocaoglu, M. (ed.); \"Ittihad-i Anasir-i Osmaniye Heyeti Nizamnamesi,\"\n(Istanbul, 1912).\nMeray, S. L. (trans./ed.) \"Lozan Baris Konferansi: Tutanaklar-Belgeler,\"\n(Ankara, 1978), 2 vols.\nMeray, S. L./O. Olcay (ed.); \"Osmanli Imparatorlugu'nun Cokus Belgeleri;\nMondros Birakismasi, Sevr Andlasmasi, Ilgili Belgeler,\" (Ankara, 1977).\n(Osmanli Devleti, Dahiliye Nezareti); \"Aspirations et Agissements \nRevolutionnaires des Comites Armeniens avant et apres la proclamation\nde la Constitution Ottomane,\" (Istanbul, 1917).\n----; \"Ermeni Komitelerinin Amal ve Hareket-i Ihtilaliyesi: Ilan-i\nMesrutiyetten Evvel ve Sonra,\" (Istanbul, 1916).\n----; \"Idare-i Umumiye ve Vilayet Kanunu,\" (Istanbul, 1913).\n----; \"Muharrerat-i Umumiye Mecmuasi, V. I (Istanbul, 1914).\n----; \"Muharrerat-i Umumiye Mecmuasi, V. II (Istanbul, 1915).\n----; \"Muharrerat-i Umumiye Mecmuasi, V. III (Istanbul, 1916).\n----; \"Muharrerat-i Umumiye Mecmuasi, V. IV (Istanbul, 1917).\n(Osmanli Devleti, Hariciye Nezareti); \"Imtiyazat-i Ecnebiyye'nin\nLagvindan Dolayi Memurine Teblig Olunacak Talimatname,\" (Istanbul, 1915).\n(Osmanli Devleti, Harbiye Nezareti); \"Islam Ahalinin Ducar Olduklari\nMezalim Hakkinda Vesaike Mustenid Malumat,\" (Istanbul, 1919).\n----; (IV. Ordu) \"Aliye Divan-i Harbi Orfisinde Tedkik Olunan Mesele-yi\nSiyasiye Hakkinda Izahat,\" (Istanbul, 1916).\nTurkozu, H. K. (ed.); \"Osmanli ve Sovyet Belgeleriyle Ermeni Mezalimi,\"\n(Ankara, 1982).\n----; \"Turkiye Buyuk Millet Meclisi Gizli Celse Zabitlari,\" (Ankara, 1985),\n4 vols.\n\nRussia\n\nAdamof, E. E. (ed.); \"Sovyet Devlet Arsivi Belgeleriyle Anadolu'nun \nTaksimi Plani,\" (tran. H. Rahmi, ed. H. Mutlucag), (Istanbul, 1972).\n\nAltinay, A. R.; \"Iki Komite - Iki Kital,\" (Istanbul, 1919).\n----; \"Kafkas Yollarinda Hatiralar ve Tahassusler,\" (Istanbul, 1919).\n----; \"Turkiye'de Katolik Propagandasi,\" Turk tarihi Encumeni Mecmuasi,\nV. XIV/82-5 (Sept. 1924).\nAsaf Muammer; \"Harb ve Mesulleri,\" (Istanbul, 1918).\nAkboy, C.; \"Birinci Dunya Harbinde Turk Harbi, V. I: Osmanli Imparatorlugu'nun\nSiyasi ve Askeri Hazirliklari ve Harbe Girisi,\" (Gn. Kur., Ankara, 1970).\nAkgun, S.; \"General Harbord'un Anadolu Gezisi ve (Ermeni Meselesi'ne Dair)\nRaporu: Kurtulus Savasi Baslangicinda,\" (Istanbul, 1981).\nAkin, I.; \"Turk Devrim Tarihi,\" (Istanbul, 1983).\nAksin, S.; \"Jon Turkler ve Ittihad ve Terakki,\" (Istanbul, 1976).\nBasar, Z. (ed.);\"Ermenilerden Gorduklerimiz,\" (Ankara, 1974).\n----; \"Ermeniler Hakkinda Makaleler - Derlemeler,\" (Ankara, 1978).\nBelen, F.; \"Birinci Dunya Harbinde Turk Harbi,\" (Ankara, 1964).\nDeliorman, A.; \"Turklere Karsi Ermeni Komitecileri,\" (Istanbul, 1980).\nEge, N. N. (ed.); \"Prens Sabahaddin: Hayati ve Ilmi Mudafaalari,\"\n(Istanbul, 1977).\nErcikan, A.; \"Ermenilerin Bizans ve Osmanli Imparatorluklarindaki Rolleri,\"\n(Ankara, 1949).\nGurun, K.; 'Ermeni Sorunu yahut bir sorun nasil yaratilir?', \"Turk Tarihinde\nErmeniler Sempozyumu,\" (Izmir, 1983).\nHocaoglu, M.; \"Arsiv Vesikalariyla Tarihte Ermeni Mezalimi ve Ermeniler,\"\n(Istanbul, 1976).\nKaral, E. S.; \"Osmanli Tarihi,\" V. V (1983, 4th ed.); V. VI (1976, 2nd ed.);\nV. VII (1977, 2nd ed.); V. VIII (1983, 2nd ed.) Ankara.\nKurat, Y. T.; \"Osmanli Imparatorlugu'nun Paylasilmasi,\" (Ankara, 1976).\nOrel, S./S. Yuca; \"Ermenilerce Talat Pasa'ya Atfedilen Telgraflarin\nIcyuzu,\" (Ankara, 1983). [Also in English translation.]\nAhmad, F.; \"The Young Turks: The Committee of Union and Progress in\nTurkish Politics,\" (Oxford, 1969).\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nAll your article reflects is your abundant ignorance. The people of \nTurkiye know quite well that Greece and the Greek Cypriots will never \nabandon the idea of hellenizing Cyprus and will remain eternally \nhopeful of uniting it with Greece, someday, whatever the cost to the\nparties involved. The history speaks for itself. Greece was the sole \nperpetrator of invasion on that island when it sent its troops on July \n15, 1974 in an attempt to topple the legitimate government of Archibishop \nMakarios.\n\nFollowing the Greek Cypriot attempt to annex the island to Greece with \nthe aid of the Greek army, Turkiye intervened by using her legal right \ngiven by two international agreements. Turkiye did it for the frequently \nand conveniently forgotten people of the island, Turkish Cypriots. For \nthose Turkish Cypriots whose grandparents have been living on the island \nsince 1571. \n\nThe release of Nikos Sampson, a member of EOKA [National Organization\nof Cypriot Fighters] and a convicted terrorist, shows that the\n'enosis' mentality continues to survive in Greece. One should not\nforget that Sampson dedicated his life to annihilating the Turks\nin Cyprus, committed murder to achieve this goal, and tried to\ndestroy the island's independence by annexing it to Greece. Of\ncourse, the Greek governments will have to bear the consequences \nfor this irresponsible conduct.\n\n\n THE MUSEUM OF BARBARISM\n\n2 Irfan Bey Street, Kumsal Area, Nicosia, Cyprus\n\nIt is the house of Dr. Nihat Ilhan, a major who was serving at\nthe Cyprus Turkish Army Contingent. During the attacks launched\nagainst the Turks by the Greeks, on 20th December 1963, Dr. Nihat\nIlhan's wife and three children were ruthlessly and brutally\nkilled in the bathroom, where they had tried to hide, by savage\nGreeks. Dr. Nihat Ilhan happened to be on duty that night, the\n24th December 1963. Pictures reflecting Greek atrocities\ncommitted during and after 1963 are exhibited in this house which\nhas been converted into a museum.\n\nAN EYE-WITNESS ACCOUNT OF HOW A TURKISH FAMILY WAS BUTCHERED BY\nGREEK TERRORISTS\n\nThe date is the 24th of December, 1963... The onslaught of the\nGreeks against the Turks, which started three days ago, has been\ngoing on with all its ferocity; and defenseless women, old men\nand children are being brutally killed by Greeks. And now Kumsal\nArea of Nicosia witnesses the worst example of the Greeks savage\nbloodshed...\n\nThe wife and the three infant children of Dr. Nihat Ilhan, a\nmajor on duty at the camp of the Cyprus Turkish Army Contingent,\nare mercilessly and dastardly shot dead while hiding in the\nbathroom of their house, by maddened Greeks who broke into their\nhome. A glaring example of Greek barbarism.\n\nLet us now listen to the relating of the said incident told by\nMr. Hasan Yusuf Gudum, an eye witness, who himself was wounded\nduring the same terrible event.\n\n\"On the night of the 24th of December, 1963 my wife Feride Hasan\nand I were paying a visit to the family of Major Dr. Nihat Ilhan.\nOur neighbours Mrs. Ayshe of Mora, her daughter Ishin and Mrs.\nAyshe's sister Novber were also with us. We were all sitting\nhaving supper. All of a sudden bullets from the Pedieos River\ndirection started to riddle the house, sounding like heavy rain.\nThinking that the dining-room where we were sitting was\ndangerous, we ran to the bathroom and toilet which we thought\nwould be safer. Altogether we were nine persons. We all hid in\nthe bathroom except my wife who took refuge in the toilet. We\nwaited in fear. Mrs. Ilhan the wife of Major Doctor, was standing\nin the bath with her three children Murat, Kutsi and Hakan in her\narms. Suddenly with a great noise we heard the front door open.\nGreeks had come in and were combing, every corner of the house\nwith their machine gun bullets. During these moments I heard\nvoices saying, in Greek, \"You want Taksim eh!\" and then bullets\nstarted flying in the bathroom. Mrs. Ilhan and her three children\nfell into the bath. They were shot. At this moment the Greeks,\nwho broke into the bathroom, emptied their guns on us again. I\nheard one of the Major's children moan, then I fainted.\n\nWhen I came to myself 2 or 3 hours later, I saw Mrs. Ilhan and\nher three children lying dead in the bath. I and the rest of the\nneighbours in the bathroom were all seriously wounded. But what\nhad happened to my wife? Then I remembered and immediately ran to\nthe toilet, where, in the doorway, I saw her body. She was\nbrutally murdered.\n\nIn the street admist the sound of shots I heard voices crying\n\"Help, help. Is there no one to save us?\" I became terrified. I\nthought that if the Greeks came again and found that I was not\ndead they would kill me. So I ran to the bedroom and hid myself\nunder the double-bed.\n\nAn our passed by. In the distance I could still hear shots. My\nmouth was dry, so I came out from under the bed and drank some\nwater. Then I put some sweets in my pocket and went back to the\nbathroom, which was exactly as I had left in an hour ago. There I\noffered sweets to Mrs. Ayshe, her daughter and Mrs. Novber who\nwere all wounded.\n\nWe waited in the bathroom until 5 o'clock in the morning. I\nthought morning would never come. We were all wounded and needed\nto be taken to hospital. Finally, as we could walk, Mrs. Novber\nand I, went out into the street hoping to find help, and walked\nas far as Koshklu Chiftlik.\n\nThere, we met some people who took us to hospital where we were\noperated on. When I regained my consciousness I said that there\nwere more wounded in the house and they went and brought Mrs.\nAyshe and her daughter.\n\nAfter staying three days in the hospital I was sent by plane to\nAnkara for further treatment. There I have had four months\ntreatment but still I cannot use my arm. On my return to Cyprus,\nGreeks arrested me at the Airport.\n\nAll I have related to you above I told the Greeks during my\ndetention. They then released me.\"\n\nON FOOT INTO CYPRUS'S DEVASTATED TURKISH QUARTER\n\nWe went tonight into the sealed-off Turkish quarter of Nicosia in\nwhich 200 to 300 people have been slaughtered in the last five\ndays.\n\nWe were the first Western reporters there, and we saw some\nterrible sights.\n\nIn the Kumsal quarter at No. 2, Irfan Bey Sokagi, we made our way\ninto a house whose floors were covered with broken glass. A\nchild's bicycle lay in a corner.\n\nIn the bathroom, looking like a group of waxworks, were three\nchildren piled on top of their murdered mother.\n\nIn a room next to it we glimpsed the body of a woman shot in the\nhead.\n\nThis, we were told, was the home of a Turkish Army major whose\nfamily had been killed by the mob in the first violence.\n\nToday was five days later, and still they lay there.\n\nRene MacCOLL and Daniel McGEACHIE, (From the \"DAILY EXPRESS\")\n\n\"...I saw in a bathroom the bodies of a mother and three infant\nchildren murdered because their father was a Turkish Officer...\"\n\nMax CLOS, LE FIGARO 25-26 January, 1964\n\n\n Peter Moorhead reporting from the village of Skyloura, Cyprus. \n Date : 1 January, 1964. \n\n IL GIARNO (Italy)\n \n THEY ARE TURK-HUNTING, THEY WANT TO EXTERMINATE THEM.\n\n Discussions start in London; in Cyprus terror continues. Right now we\n are witnessing the exodus of Turks from the villages. Thousands of people\n abandoning homes, land, herds; Greek Cypriot terrorism is relentless. This \n time, the rhetoric of the Hellenes and the bust of Plato do not suffice to \n cover up barbaric and ferocious behaviors.\n\n Article by Giorgo Bocca, Correspondent of Il Giorno\n Date: 14 January 1964\n\n DAILY HERALD (London)\n\n AN APPALLING SIGHT\n\nAnd when I came across the Turkish homes they were an appalling sight.\nApart from the walls, they just did not exist. I doubt if a napalm bomb\nattack could have created more devastation. I counted 40 blackened brick\nand concrete shells that had once been homes. Each house had been deliberately\nfired by petrol. Under red tile roofs which had caved in, I found a twisted\nmass of bed springs, children's conts and cribs, and ankle deep grey\nashes of what had once been chairs, tables and wardrobes.\n\nIn the neighbouring village of Ayios Vassilios, a mile away, I counted 16 \nwrecked and burned out homes. They were all Turkish Cypriot homes. From\nthis village more than 100 Turkish Cypriots had also vanished.In neither village\ndid I find a scrap of damage to any Greek Cypriot house.\n\n\n DAILY TELEGRAPH (London)\n \n GRAVES OF 12 SHOT TURKISH CYPRIOTS FOUND IN CYPRUS VILLAGE\n\n Silent crowds gathered tonight outside the Red Crescent hospital in the\n Turkish Sector of Nicosia, as the bodies of 9 Turkish Cypriots found\n crudely buried outside the village of Ayios Vassilios, 13 miles away, were\n brought to the hospital under the escort of the Parachute Regiment. Three \n more bodies, including one of a woman, were discovered nearby but could\n not be removed. Turkish Cypriots guarded by paratroops are still trying to \n locate the bodies of 20 more believed to have been buried on the same site.\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nA typical Armenian revisionist. As in the past in x-Soviet Armenia, \nand today in Azerbaijan, for utopic and idiotic causes the Armenians\nbrought havoc to their neighbors. A short-sighted and misplaced\nnationalistic fervor with a wrong agenda and anachronistic methods\nthe Armenians continue to become pernicious for the region. As usual,\nthey will be treated accordingly by their neighbors. Nagorno-Karabag \nis a mountainous enclave that lies completely within Azerbaijan with \nno border or history whatsoever connected to x-Soviet Armenia. Besides \nthe geographical aspect, Nagorno-Karabag is the historic homeland and \nthe 'cradle' of the artistic and literary heritage of Azerbaijan, which \nrenders the Armenian claims preposterous, even lunatic. No one in his or \nher mind could have imagined that one day such a devious turn of event \ncould have plagued the Azeris. One cannot even imagine the reverse case \nto occur, for the Armenians either would have slaughtered the Azerbaijanis, \nor put them to forced exile to maintain their own majority. Where was she?\n\n\n An Appeal to Mankind\n\nDuring the last three years Azerbaijan and its multinational\npopulation are vainly fighting for justice within the limits of\nthe Soviet Union. All humanitarian, constitutional human rights\nguaranteed by the UN Charter, Universal Declaration of Human\nRights, Helsinki Agreements, Human Problems International Forums,\ndocuments signed by the Soviet Union - all of them are violated.\n\nThe USSR's President, government bodies do not defend Azerbaijan\nthough they are all empowered to take necessary measures to\nguarantee life and peace.\n\nThe 140,000 strong army of Armenian terrorists with Moscow's\ntacit consent wages an undeclared war of annihilation against\nAzerbaijan. As a result, a part of Azerbaijan has been occupied\nand annexed, hundreds of people killed, thousands wounded.\n\nSome 200,000 Azerbaijanis have been brutally and inhumanly\ndeported from the Armenian SSR, their historical homeland.\nTogether with them 64,000 Russians and 22,000 Kurds have also\nbeen driven out, a part of them now settled in Azerbaijan.\nSome 40,000 Turkish-Meskhetians, Lezghins and representatives \nof other Caucasian nationalities who escaped from the Central\nAsia where the President and government bodies did not guarantee\nthem the life and peace also suffered from these deportations.\n\nOne of the scandalous vandalisms directed not only against\nAzerbaijan science but the world civilization as well is the\nArmenian extremists' destruction of the Karabakh scientific\nexperimental base of The Institute of Genetics and Selection \nof the Academy of Sciences of the Azerbaijan SSR.\n\nWe beg you for humanitarian help and political assistance,\nfor the honour and dignity of 7 million Azerbaijanis are\nviolated, its territory, culture and history are trampled,\nits people are shot. There is persistent negative image of\nAzerbaijanians abroad, and this defamation is spread over \nthe whole world by Soviet mass media, Armenian lobby in the\nUSSR and the United States. \n\nOne of the myths is that all events allegedly involves and\ngenerated by interethnic collisions and religious intolerance\nwhile the truth is that all these shootings and recent \nevents stem from the territorial claims of Armenia on\nAzerbaijan.\n\nIt is a well documented fact that before the conflict there\nwere no frictions between Armenians and Azerbaijanis on the\nissue of Karabakh. Hundreds and thousands Armenians placidly\nand calmly lived and worked in Azerbaijan land, had their\nrepresentatives in all government bodies of the Azerbaijan\nSSR.\n\nWe are for a united, indivisible, sovereign Azerbaijan, we \nare for a common Caucasian home proclaimed in 1918 by one\nof the founding fathers of the Azerbaijan Democratic \nRepublic - Muhammed Emin Rasulzade.\n\nBut all these goals and expectations are trampled upon the\nSoviet leadership in favour of the Armenian expansionists\nencouraged by Moscow and intended to create a new '1,000\nYear Reich' - the 'Great Armenia' - by annexing the \nneighboring lands.\n\nThe world public opinion shed tears to save the whales,\nsuffers for penguins dying out in the Antarctic Continent.\n\nBut what about the lives of seven million human beings?\nIf these people are Muslims, does it mean that they are\nless valuable? Can people be discriminated by their \ncolour of skin or religion, by their residence or other\nattributes?\n\nAll people are brothers, and we appeal to our brothers\nfor help and understanding. This is not the first appeal\nof Azerbaijan to the world public opinion. Our previous\nappeals were unheard. However, we still carry the hope\nthat the truth beyond the Russian and Armenian propaganda\nwill one day reveal the extent of our suffering and\nstimulate at least as much help and compassion for\nAzerbaijan as tendered to whales and penguins.\n\n\t\tTHE COMMITTEE FOR PEOPLE'S HELP TO \n KARABAKH (OF THE) ACADEMY OF SCIENCES \n OF THE AZERBAIJAN SSR\n\n\n\"PAINFUL SEARCH ..\"\n\nTHE GRUESOME extent of February's killings of Azeris by Armenians\nin the town of Hojali is at last emerging in Azerbaijan - about\n600 men, women and children dead in the worst outrage of the\nfour-year war over Nagorny Karabakh.\n\nThe figure is drawn from Azeri investigators, Hojali officials\nand casualty lists published in the Baku press. Diplomats and aid\nworkers say the death toll is in line with their own estimates.\n\nThe 25 February attack on Hojali by Armenian forces was one of\nthe last moves in their four-year campaign to take full control\nof Nagorny Karabakh, the subject of a new round of negotiations\nin Rome on Monday. The bloodshed was something between a fighting\nretreat and a massacre, but investigators say that most of the\ndead were civilians. The awful number of people killed was first\nsuppressed by the fearful former Communist government in Baku.\nLater it was blurred by Armenian denials and grief-stricken\nAzerbaijan's wild and contradictory allegations of up to 2,000\ndead.\n\nThe State Prosecuter, Aydin Rasulov, the cheif investigator of a\n15-man team looking into what Azerbaijan calls the \"Hojali\nDisaster\", said his figure of 600 people dead was a minimum on\npreliminary findings. A similar estimate was given by Elman\nMemmedov, the mayor of Hojali. An even higher one was printed in\nthe Baku newspaper Ordu in May - 479 dead people named and more\nthan 200 bodies reported unidentified. This figure of nearly 700\ndead is quoted as official by Leila Yunusova, the new spokeswoman\nof the Azeri Ministry of Defence.\n\nFranCois Zen Ruffinen, head of delegation of the International\nRed Cross in Baku, said the Muslim imam of the nearby city of\nAgdam had reported a figure of 580 bodies received at his mosque\nfrom Hojali, most of them civilians. \"We did not count the\nbodies. But the figure seems reasonable. It is no fantasy,\" Mr\nZen Ruffinen said. \"We have some idea since we gave the body bags\nand products to wash the dead.\"\n\nMr Rasulov endeavours to give an unemotional estimate of the\nnumber of dead in the massacre. \"Don't get worked up. It will\ntake several months to get a final figure,\" the 43-year-old\nlawyer said at his small office.\n\nMr Rasulov knows about these things. It took him two years to\nreach a firm conclusion that 131 people were killed and 714\nwounded when Soviet troops and tanks crushed a nationalist\nuprising in Baku in January 1990.\n\nThose nationalists, the Popular Front, finally came to power\nthree weeks ago and are applying pressure to find out exactly\nwhat happened when Hojali, an Azeri town which lies about 70\nmiles from the border with Armenia, fell to the Armenians.\n\nOfficially, 184 people have so far been certified as dead, being\nthe number of people that could be medically examined by the\nrepublic's forensic department. \"This is just a small percentage\nof the dead,\" said Rafiq Youssifov, the republic's chief forensic\nscientist. \"They were the only bodies brought to us. Remember the\nchaos and the fact that we are Muslims and have to wash and bury\nour dead within 24 hours.\"\n\nOf these 184 people, 51 were women, and 13 were children under 14\nyears old. Gunshots killed 151 people, shrapnel killed 20 and\naxes or blunt instruments killed 10. Exposure in the highland\nsnows killed the last three. Thirty-three people showed signs of\ndeliberate mutilation, including ears, noses, breasts or penises\ncut off and eyes gouged out, according to Professor Youssifov's\nreport. Those 184 bodies examined were less than a third of those\nbelieved to have been killed, Mr Rasulov said.\n\nFiles from Mr Rasulov's investigative commission are still\ndisorganised - lists of 44 Azeri militiamen are dead here, six\npolicemen there, and in handwriting of a mosque attendant, the\nnames of 111 corpses brought to be washed in just one day. The\nmost heartbreaking account from 850 witnesses interviewed so far\ncomes from Towfiq Manafov, an Azeri investigator who took a\nhelicopter flight over the escape route from Hojali on 27\nFebruary.\n\n\"There were too many bodies of dead and wounded on the ground to\ncount properly: 470-500 in Hojali, 650-700 people by the stream\nand the road and 85-100 visible around Nakhchivanik village,\" Mr\nManafov wrote in a statement countersigned by the helicopter\npilot.\n\n\"People waved up to us for help. We saw three dead children and\none two-year-old alive by one dead woman. The live one was\npulling at her arm for the mother to get up. We tried to land but\nArmenians started a barrage against our helicopter and we had to\nreturn.\"\n\nThere has been no consolidation of the lists and figures in\ncirculation because of the political upheavals of the last few\nmonths and the fact that nobody knows exactly who was in Hojali\nat the time - many inhabitants were displaced from other villages\ntaken over by Armenian forces.\n\nTHE INDEPENDENT, London, 12/6/'92\n\n\nHEROES WHO FOUGHT ON AMID THE BODIES\n\nAREF SADIKOV sat quietly in the shade of a cafe-bar on the\nCaspian Sea esplanade of Baku and showed a line of stitches in\nhis trousers, torn by an Armenian bullet as he fled the town of\nHojali just over three months ago, writes Hugh Pope.\n\n\"I'm still wearing the same clothes, I don't have any others,\"\nthe 51-year-old carpenter said, beginning his account of the\nHojali disaster. \"I was wounded in five places, but I am lucky to\nbe alive.\"\n\nMr Sadikov and his wife were short of food, without electricity\nfor more than a month, and cut off from helicopter flights for 12\ndays. They sensed the Armenian noose was tightening around the\n2,000 to 3,000 people left in the straggling Azeri town on the\nedge of Karabakh.\n\n\"At about 11pm a bombardment started such as we had never heard\nbefore, eight or nine kinds of weapons, artillery, heavy\nmachine-guns, the lot,\" Mr Sadikov said.\n\nSoon neighbours were pouring down the street from the direction\nof the attack. Some huddled in shelters but others started\nfleeing the town, down a hill, through a stream and through the\nsnow into a forest on the other side.\n\nTo escape, the townspeople had to reach the Azeri town of Agdam\nabout 15 miles away. They thought they were going to make it,\nuntil at about dawn they reached a bottleneck between the two\nArmenian villages of Nakhchivanik and Saderak.\n\n\"None of my group was hurt up to then ... Then we were spotted by\na car on the road, and the Armenian outposts started opening\nfire,\" Mr Sadikov said.\n\nAzeri militiamen fighting their way out of Hojali rushed forward\nto force open a corridor for the civilians, but their efforts\nwere mostly in vain. Mr Sadikov said only 10 people from his\ngroup of 80 made it through, including his wife and militiaman\nson. Seven of his immediate relations died, including his\n67-year-old elder brother.\n\n\"I only had time to reach down and cover his face with his hat,\"\nhe said, pulling his own big flat Turkish cap over his eyes. \"We\nhave never got any of the bodies back.\"\n\nThe first groups were lucky to have the benefit of covering fire.\nOne hero of the evacuation, Alif Hajief, was shot dead as he\nstruggled to change a magazine while covering the third group's\ncrossing, Mr Sadikov said.\n\nAnother hero, Elman Memmedov, the mayor of Hojali, said he and\nseveral others spent the whole day of 26 February in the bushy\nhillside, surrounded by dead bodies as they tried to keep three\nArmenian armoured personnel carriers at bay.\n\nAs the survivors staggered the last mile into Agdam, there was\nlittle comfort in a town from which most of the population was\nsoon to flee.\n\n\"The night after we reached the town there was a big Armenian\nrocket attack. Some people just kept going,\" Mr Sadikov said. \"I\nhad to get to the hospital for treatment. I was in a bad way.\nThey even found a bullet in my sock.\"\n\nVictims of war: An Azeri woman mourns her son, killed in the\nHojali massacre in February (left). Nurses struggle in primitive\nconditions (centre) to save a wounded man in a makeshift\noperating theatre set up in a train carriage. Grief-stricken\nrelatives in the town of Agdam (right) weep over the coffin of\nanother of the massacre victims. Calculating the final death toll\nhas been complicated because Muslims bury their dead within 24\nhours.\n\nPhotographs: Liu Heung / AP\n Frederique Lengaigne / Reuter\n\nTHE INDEPENDENT, London, 12/6/'92\n\nSerdar Argic", "Atrocity Reports Horrify Azerbaijan :\n\n\"Azeri officials who returned from the seen to this town about nine miles \n away brought back three dead children, the backs of their heads blown off...\n 'Women and children had been scalped,' said Assad Faradzev, an aide to \n Karabagh's Azeri governor. Azeri television showed pictures of one \n truckload of bodies brought to the Azeri town of Agdam, some with their \n faces apparently scratched with knives or their eyes gouged out.\"\n Brian Killen (Reuters)\n The Washington Times, 3/3/92\n\n\nKillings Rife in Nagorno-Karabagh, Moldova:\n\n\"Journalists in the area reported seeing dozens of corpses, including some \n of the civilians, and Azerbaijani officials said Armenians began shooting \n at them when they sought to recover the bodies.\"\n Fred Hiatt\n The Washington Post, 3/3/92\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "+-----------------------------------------------------------+\n\t| |\n\t| \"There's no room for Christians here!\" and \"When we |\n\t| finish with the Armenians, we'll go after the Russians!\" |\n\t| |\n\t+-----------------------------------------------------------+\n\nDEPOSITION OF KARINE BORISOVNA MELKUMIAN [1]\n\nBorn 1963\nTeacher\nBoarding School No. 1\n\nResident at Building 2B, Apartment 21\nBlock 41A\nSumgait [Azerbaijan]\n\nThis is my fate: I had everything, we were a happy family, and now, at 25,\nI've become a widow, I'm left to raise my three children alone; the third, not\nyet two months old, was born in Yerevan. Igor and I had thought that if it was \na girl we would call her Raisa, after my mother-in-law, and if it was a boy, \nwe'd call him Arsen, after Igor's grandfather. I had a girl, and I, without\nIgor, named her Raisa, in honor of her dead grandmother.\n\nOur family and the Melkumians had been neighbors since 1965. Igor and I grew \nup together, we were friends from childhood on. We got engaged when I was 16. \nIn 1981, when I was 18, we were married. Two children were born to us in \nSumgait. My daughter is now 6 years old, her name is Kristina, and my son,\nSeryozha, is four and a half.\n\nFirst I shall tell what happened on February 27. That day on my way home from \nwork I passed Lenin Square, where about 1,500 people had gathered. There were \nKomsomol members there, and Pioneers [Children's organization], and there were \nboth Party members and non-Party people there as well. All of them were \nshouting, \"There's no room for Christians here!\" and \"When we finish with the \nArmenians, we'll go after the Russians!\" And some even cried Out, \"Death to \nthe Armenians!\" Absurd rumors had been circulating about town. I became \nfrightened. I came home, breathless, and told about everything I had seen \ndowntown. My family couldn't believe it. My father-in-law Sogomon Markovich \nMelkumian, wasn't home, he was at an Azerbaijani wedding. By eight o'clock he \nreturned and had barely finished parking the car when his rear window was \nsmashed with a rock. He got out of the car but there was no one there. Well I \nwas telling him everything, too, and he said, \"What, is there no longer any\ngovernment?\" That same day Igor said, \"Papa, something terrible is happening \nin the city.\" And he said, \"We'll stay at home, no one will drive us from our \nown home.\"\n\nThe day passed. On February 28, that was Sunday, we didn't go out. We called \nour relatives and asked them all kinds of questions, and they all said the \nsame thing. Sometime around evening they started smashing the car of an \nArmenian from the neighboring building. Ira, my brother-in-law's wife, and I \ncalled the police: they're wrecking a car, help. We called and called, and \nnonetheless they didn't come and they didn't do anything.\n\nOn February 29, on Monday, even though there were troops in the city, we were \nafraid to go to work. I called the school: I had the keys to the classroom. I \ntold the senior teacher that he should send someone for the keys, I wouldn't \nbe coming in. He agreed, and even said, \"Fine, don't come in, we understand \nwhat's going on in town, don't come in.\"\n\nBefore that, on the 28th, the Ambartsumian family came over. They came to my \nfather-in-law and said, \"Uncle Sergey, they broke our windows, bad things are \nhappening in town.\" Uncle Misha Ambartsumian even said, \"With my own eyes I \nsaw them chasing naked girls through the streets. I don't know,\" he said, \"we \nshould leave town.\" Well on the 29th we were already trying to decide where we \nshould go, thinking we'd go to our dacha. We got a couple of bags together, \nclothes, food, the bare essentials. And then somewhere around 4:45 the \nbuilding manager came by and said, \"Uncle Sergey, the situation in town is \nbad, don't go out.\" My father even opened up to him and said, \"Maybe we'll \ndrive to the dacha, it'll be safer there.\" \"No,\" he said, \"it'll be worse \nthere, you'll be safer at home.\" He said don't be afraid, if something happens \nI'll send people to save you.\n\nAfter he left about 15 minutes passed and about 200 people burst into our \ncourtyard. All of us were at home at the time: Igor and I and our two \nchildren, Ira and Edik and their daughter, my sister-in-law Ira, and my \nmother-and father-in-law. And the Ambartsumian family, there were three of \nthem, Uncle Misha, Zhasmen, and their daughter Marina. Now when they started\nbreaking down the door I remember Edik and Igor told us, \"Go in that room\nand close the door. Close the door and calm the children so they won't hear\nthat there's anyone home.\" The children started crying. Suddenly Ira, my \nbrother-in-law's wife, suggested, \"Let's run out onto the balcony.\" We -- the\ntwo daughters-in-law and the children, and Zhasmen and Marina -- raced out\nonto the balcony. My sister-in-law and my mother-in-law ran in and said, \n\"Quick, over to the other balcony, or they'll kill you all.\" We lived on the\nsecond floor. We needed to cross over from our balcony to our neighbor's. At\nfirst we couldn't manage it. The balcony looked onto the street. At that time\npeople were coming home from work, and many just stood there, watching. I \npleaded and begged: \"Please, call someone, have someone come!\" I even started \nshouting. \"I'll throw down the children, I'll throw them down, you catch them \nand take them somewhere, so at least the children will survive.\" Either they \nwere afraid or . . . I don't know what. They looked as though they were \nwatching a movie. Some of them started throwing stones at us. I'll say it \nagain, these weren't the bandits, these were people from the other part of the \nbuilding and from our entryway, they were just regular people, passersby. A \nbus even stopped. I remember a man's voice saying the Armenians were climbing\nover to the other balcony. Ira, my sister-in-law, helped us get the children \nover there. I was pregnant, about seven months pregnant. No, it wasn't yet \nseven, it was six and a half. I climbed over too. I think Zhasmen went first; \nyou know, I just don't remember it all that well. Zhasmen went first, I think, \nand Edik's wife Ira and I had the children, and they were all screaming and \ncrying. My Kristina said, \"Mamma, don't throw us over the balcony, we're \nafraid!\" Lilia was crying, and Kristina and Seryozha were crying too. Kristina \ndidn't even want to climb over. She shouted, \"I'm staying with Grandmother,\nI'm staying with Grandma!\" She loved her grandma, more than she loved me. And \nmy mother-in-law shouted, \"Oh no, Kristina's still there, she's still there, \nsave Kristina, too!\" Ira helped us climb over, with Kristina coming last. Ira \nhelped us and went back inside.\n\nWe started pounding on the neighbor's balcony door. I pounded with my fist, \nSevil, open the door, open it, please!\" She didn't open it. \"No, go away, go \nanywhere, go, I'm not opening the door.\" She was our neighbor, we were \nfriends, we never refused her anything, ever! And apparently she thought we \nwere going to break the windows, and she opened the door. She opened it and \nsaid, \"Karina, Karina, go away, go anywhere, just don't stay here, they'll \nkill us, too, because of you.\" I begged, \"Please, at least take the children, \nwe'll leave, we'll go back.\" \"No,\" she said, \"you have to leave.\" Her sons ran \nin, one had a knife. Sevil's brother, he's around 18, shouted at us: \"Get out \nof here, leave, I'll kill you with this knife!\" I became terrified, I took the \nchildren and went out in the entryway and went down a few stairs. I went down \nand heard a loudspeaker. It was in the courtyard \"The Armenians must be \nkilled, they've taken all the best places, all the best apartments!\" One of \nthem said, \"Let the Armenian blood flow, none of them should survive!\" When I \nheard that I went upstairs and started knocking on doors. No one opened their \ndoor for me! Not on the third floor, or the fourth. I couldn't see Zhasmen any \nlonger. Ira came upstairs later. I even thought that they had let her stay, \nthat they would save her.\n\nMy head was spinning. They were killing my family, and here I was in the next \nentryway with two children. Seryozha was four, and Kristina was five and a \nhalf. They were crying, \"Mamma, we're scared!\" They were so frightened that I \ndidn't even know how to calm them, should I try to calm them or myself? It was \nawful. But on the third floor a man did open his door. I asked, \"Open up, let \nme inside!\" He opened the door slightly and said, \"No!\" \"No\" and that was it! \nHe said it so sternly: \"No!\" I went up to the fifth floor. I pounded my fists \non the door with all my might. He opened up, the man of the house, and stood \nthere, looking at me. I was ready to get down on my knees. I almost did get \ndown on my knees. \"Please, I beg of you, at least take the children.\" He \nwasn't an Azerbaijani, he was a Lezgin. I don't even know how, but he let me \ninside. And when I went in, Zhasmen was already there. Two minutes hadn't \npassed when Ira and Lilia came up the stairs. Lilia was crying. He didn't want \nto open the door. And again I started pleading, \"Please, open the door, it's \nour Ira and Lilia! Open the door!\" And he said, \"No, I'm afraid.\" I said again \nand again, \"Please, open the door, please!\" He looked at me. He looked at me \nfor a long time and then opened the door after all. Ira came in with Lilia. We \nthrew ourselves into each other's arms, crying. Then the man locked us into \nthe bathroom. We sat there for a long time. Through the door he told us, \"Calm \nthe children, and calm yourselves down, too.\"\n\nCalm down? This man was hiding us, but what of our family? When I was still in \nour apartment I had sensed that none of us would come out of this alive. I \nsaid, \"Igor, Edik, let's say farewell.\" And Edik turned around and looked at \nme as if to say, is that some kind of joke? All the same I thought they would \nkill all of us. Igor looked at me, too . . . But it was already too late! They \nstarted pounding on the door, Igor was standing next to the door. Before that \nhe had told us, \"Go lock yourselves in that room and sit tight.\" He thought we \nwere in the room. But before we went out onto the balcony we went to them: \n\"Edik, Igor, let's say farewell.\" Igor didn't think we could climb over to the \nother balcony. And we did get over there, and I myself can't believe we were \nable to save ourselves.\n\nIgor put on a helmet, and Edik had his coat on, and he put on a fur hat. All \nthe men--Igor, Edik, their father, and Misha Ambartsumian--they all stood next \nto the door. They thought they would pound on it a while and leave. But from \nthe other side of the door they ordered in Azerbaijani: \"Open the door!\" We \nwere all silent, waiting. Someone outside the door said, \"They're home,\nthey're in there, break down the door!\" And I remember my father-in-law \nwhispering, \"They're going to break it down now, it's coming down now . . . \"\n\nHe had something in his hands, I think it was a knife: if they got in, we were \ngoing to defend ourselves. In the hall near the door there were two metal \nchair legs. From outside the door they said, \"We're counting to five, open \nup!\" But we were all quiet, we didn't answer them. We made like no one was \nhome. We figured they'd leave, they'd get tired and leave. My father-in-law \nhad said, \"It's not possible they'd come into my home. How can that be? \nEveryone knows us, all of Sumgait knows our family, we are on good terms with \neveryone.\" And indeed a day did not pass that there wasn't an Azerbaijani \nguest at our table. We had a nice dacha, everyone would get together there \noften, Azerbaijanis liked being with us there too. But now we had to save \nourselves, we had to flee from our own home. Ira, I remember, said, \"I'm not \nleaving here, my brothers and my parents are here, I'm going to fight \nalongside them.\" That's just what she said. She picked up a knife and said, \n\"If they open the door and come into the apartment then I'm going to fight \nalongside my family, I'm not going anywhere.\"\n\nWe were at Sevil's when they broke into our apartment. We heard fighting and \nshouting. The noise was terrible. And when we hid upstairs on the fifth floor \nat the Lezgin's apartment, you could hear everything up there, too. Even Ira's \nvoice. I remember her calling her mother several times. She called her for a \nlong time . . . I started pounding on the door in the bathroom: \"Open the \ndoor, what are they doing to Ira, who's shouting, that's Ira shouting, that's \nher voice!\" But the Lezgin said, \"It's nothing, calm down, no, it's not in \nyour apartment.\" He was lying to me so I'd calm down. Two hours went by and \nthe Lezgin opened the door and said, \"Karina, Igor got away, calm down. He ran \naway.\" He saw Igor break away and run off with his own eyes. They killed him \noutside, next to the building.\n\nWhile we were in the bathroom I experienced every possible human terror. The \nway Ira shouted! She shouted, \"Save me, Mamma, save me! . . . Mamma, Mamma!\" \nShe repeated it several times. There was a wild din. There were very many \npeople there, all of them shouting, all of them bellowing, howling, \nwhistling--you just can't imagine what was going on, what the roar was like.\n\nApparently, after they had killed Ira those murderers came into the entryway \nwhere we were hiding and came upstairs, all the way up to the fifth floor. I \ndon't know if they were just looking for any Armenians or for us in\nparticular, but I think they were looking for us because when we had climbed \nover the balconies someone on the street was saying that the daughters-in-law \nwere climbing over the balconies. And after we heard Ira we heard them coming \nup the stairs in the entryway and hammering on the doors. I thought those were \nour last moments, and started saying good-bye to my children, kissing them. \nThey were sleeping. I woke them up: \"Kristina! Seryozha, wake up!\" And I tell \nIra: \"Ira, if something happens, we'll throw ourselves off the balcony.\" We \nwere on the fifth floor. Apparently our Lezgin neighbor had opened the door \ntoo, because later he said, \"I opened the door and told them there were no \nArmenians inside.\" And after they all left our neighbor went out on the \nbalcony himself to see: they were gone.\n\nWe weren't friends with those Lezgin neighbors, we only knew each other from \nthe building. But the people we were friends with wouldn't even consider \nhiding us.\n\nThe Lezgin let us out of the bathroom. They had a candle burning. He said, \n\"Karina, there're no lights on in our block.\" The whole block was dark, the \nwhole block! It's a huge block, too. The Lezgin said, \"I'm afraid to keep\nyou until morning, I'm afraid of the neighbors, they might kill me for saving\nyou.\" I said, \"What are you saying, we'll leave now. But we can't just leave\nwith the children in the middle of the night. Give us time to find somewhere\nelse to hide.\" He said, \"Well OK, go look.\" I asked Ira, \"Ira, do you want to\ngo?\" Ira said, \"No, I'll stay with the children, Karina.\" I said, \"Fine, then\nI'll go.\" Zhasmen and I went downstairs together. It was very dark. No one \nwas in the courtyard. It was dark, pitch black. l was afraid to go out at \nafter seven, Igor always met me after work and accompanied me home, I never \nwent out alone. And now here I was out in the middle of the night and after a\nslaughter like that, too. It was probably after eleven. Later I called the \nboarding school and my director answered. He said, \"Karina, where are you?\" I\ndidn't know, I was calling from a public phone outside and didn't know where I \nwas. I got confused and hung up the receiver. From him I only found out what \ntime it was, I asked him, \"What time is it?\" He said 11:20, I think, but I \ndon't really remember. So anyway Zhasmen and I went out into the courtyard. I \nlook and see what appears to be a person not far from our apartment. And there\nwas the smell of something burnt. I became horrified. I looked at the corpse \nfor a long time. It was either Ira or Edik. I only saw one of them, Zhasmen \ngrabbed my hand and squeezed it: \"Hurry up, let's go . . . Hurry up, come on, \nwhat are you turning around for?\" I turned around and saw a large truck, it \nmust have belonged to the bandits, because they came to kill us in a truck \nlike that. We lived in the third entryway, and that truck was next to the \nfourth. We walked quickly, holding hands. I thought, if I go to the police \nthen they'll put me away. I couldn't count on them. Before I reached the \npolice station I saw a military vehicle. We went over and I said, \"Soldier, in \nBlock 41, I don't know if they've killed people or injured them--we need to \nsave them!\" And he said, \"Go to the police station and tell them everything.\" \nI said, \"I'm afraid to go there, I'm afraid of them.\" He said, \"Don't be \nafraid.\"\n\nWe went to the police and they wrote down the address, and the military \nvehicle went to our building. I didn't go with them, they left me at the \npolice station. I gave the addresses of my mother and my brothers so that \nthey'd rescue them, too. I didn't know where they were or what had happened to\nthem.\n\nAfter a while they brought my children and Ira and Lilia. First they took us \nto the KGB, that was at two or three in the morning. Then around five they \ntook us to the City Party Committee, and there were very many people there, \nvery many. I was pregnant and was wearing nothing but a dress. Seryozha was \nonly wearing a shirt, and Kristina had a little dress on. No coat, no boots, \nnothing! And we sat there for three whole days in the City Party Committee.\n\nThe Lezgin had told me that Igor escaped. And I thought that he was probably \nalive. But then after two and a half days, they took us, the Armenians of \nSumgait, to Nasosny. On March 6 some people from the Central Committee came \nand told us, \"Karina, Ira, we need you, come with us to the City Party \nCommittee.\" My Mamma had come to Nasosny, and she had been looking for me for \nsix days. Mama, my brothers, and my uncle. We went to the City Party Committee \nand waited there in the courtyard. I was wearing nothing but a dress, and Ira \nhad only a dress on as well. There was a strong wind on March 6. An hour went \nby. And then one of the functionaries told us, \"Karina, Ira, gather your \ncourage. Would you like to go to the burial?\" I said, \"What, did they really \nkill all of them?!\" He said, \"Let's look.\" He had a long list, and he started \nreading them off: Igor Melkumian, my husband, Eduard Melkumian, my brother-in-\nlaw, Irina Melkumian, my sister-in-law, Sogomon Melkumian, my father-in-law,\nand Raisa Melkumian, my mother-in-law. He read off all their names and said, \n\"Get in the car, let's go to the burial.\"\n\nWe buried our family. I couldn't believe it at the time, I couldn't conceive\nof it or imagine it . . . And even now I think how shall I explain it to my \nchildren when they're older?\n\nMy children were very attached to their father and their grandfather and\ngrandmother. Kristina didn't love me the way she loved her grandfather and\ngrandmother, they spoiled her. Kristina would always announce, \"My grandma is \nbetter than anyone!\" Now, even though she is getting used to my mother, it's \ndifficult for her, and once she told her: \"You're a bad grandmother.\"\n\nI don't know why, I asked her, \"Kristina, where's Papa?\" and she said, \"They \nkilled him.\" She knows, she understands it all. And recently I scolded\nSeryozha severely for something, and he started shouting at me, \"When Papa \ncomes I'm going to tell him everything!\"\n\nJuly 26, 1988\nNairi Boarding House\nNear the Village of Arzakan\nHrazdan District\nArmenian SSR\n\t\t\t- - - reference - - -\n\n[1] _The Sumgait Tragedy; Pogroms against Armenians in Soviet Azerbaijan,\n Volume I, Eyewitness Accounts_, edited by Samuel Shahmuradian, forward by\n Yelena Bonner, 1990, published by Aristide D. Caratzas, NY, page 318-324\n\n", "\n\nIs that how the mind of a compulsive liar works? The scenario and \ngenocide staged by the Armenians 78 years ago in x-Soviet Armenia \nis being reenacted again - this time in Azerbaijan. There are remarkable \nsimilarities between the plots, the perpetrators, and the underdogs. \n\nThe stories of survivors of Karabag massacre:\n\n69 year old Hatin Nine telling:\n\n-''My Twin grandchildren were cut to pieces in front of my eyes. They told\nme: We won't kill you. But the babies have to die in front of your eyes.''\n\n72 year old Huseyin Ibrahimoglu:\n\n- ''Our Turkish village in Khojalu Town was blown up in two hours.\n Turks, you must die.''\n\n28 year old Gulsum Huseyin:\n\n- ''They bayonetted my 3 year old daughter in her stomach in front of\n my eyes.''\n\nAre these stories lies? Have the eye-witnesses been day-dreaming?\nWere these stories forged by Turkish journalists in the region?\n\nThe nonsense of such a claim is clear from the writings of British\nJournalists, too. Two days before we had quoted from a Sunday Times\narticle. They[British] reported the events in Karabag even before\nTurkish journalists. What is more here are the pictures. Pictures\nof people who were bayonetted, whose eyes were gouged, ears cut off.\n\nEven the Armenian Radio couldn't claim these \"lies.\" They are saying\n\"exaggeration.\" That means ''somethings'' have happened but the\nsituation is not as bad as reported. Perhaps that village of Khojalu\ntown was destroyed in 4 hours, instead of 2... Or Gulsum Huseyin's\n3 year old daughter was bayonetted in her chest instead of stomach...\n\nThe massacre is clearly seen with all its dimensions. The effects of\nthis massacre on Karabag and environs cannot be reduced by any word.\n\nSome of the western press', led by some French Newspapers, ability\nto ''close their eyes'' is nothing but complicity in this massacre.\n\nYesterday we gave samples from Le Figaro. Until yesterday's print\nno news about the real events in Karabag were printed. So were the\nFrench TV channels.. The subject they considered related to Karabag\nwas ''The necessity of protecting Armenians against Azeri attacks.''\n\nThe age we are living in is termed a human rights age. There are lots\nof organizations such as United Nations and CSCE(Conference on Security\nand Cooperation in Europe), and rules, all designed to fight against human\nrights violations. International reactions must be made with international\ncooperation. With support of everybody and every organization claiming\nto be civilized.\n\nCould there be a more serious human rights violation than that of the\nright to live -and with such levels of barbarity and cruelty-? Where\nis the cooperation? Where are the reactions? And the intellectuals,\njournalists, writers, TV stations of certain western countries such\nas France who are fast to claim leadership of \"human rights?\"\nWhere are you?\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\n1/64th or 63/64th?\n\nI must congratulate your analytical and excellent\nreportage about Diana. From the writings of tye\nbiographers you quoted, I can perceive, maybe\nchauvinistically, the remnants of her Armenian\ngenes. Even though she is only 1/64th Armenian,\nshe seems to have many of the strong\ncharacteristics of Armenian women. Her Armenian\nancestry is traced to Eliza Kewark (an Armenian\nfrom India), who married the Scottish merchant\nThedore Forbes. From the union was born Kathleen\nScott Forbes, who married James Crombie from\nAberdeen. They had a daughter Jane, who married\nDavid Littlejohn. Their daughter Ruth married\nWilliam Gill. Ruth Silvia Gill, the grandmother of\nLady Diana, married Lord Fermoy, and their\ndaughter, Frances Ruth Burke Roache, married the\neight Earl of Spencer, who was the father of Lady\nDiana. It is noteworthy that Eliza Kewark was also\nreferred to as Mrs. Forbesian (a characteristic\nArmenian surname ending). An Armenian-Scottish\ngene mix is dynamite.\n\nLevon K. Topuzian\nAssistant Professor\nNorthwestern University\nSkoie, Illinois.\n\nTIME, December 21, 1992 'Letters'\n\n\nYou have set up straw horses and knocked them down. I'm not impressed.\nAnyway, the Armenians tore apart the Ottoman Empire's eastern provinces,\nmassacred 2.5 million defenseless Turkish women, children and elderly \npeople, burned thousands of Turkish and Kurdish villages and exterminated \nthe entire Turkish population of the Armenian dictatorship between \n1914-1920. Such outrageous sleight of hand that is still employed today \nin Armenia brings a depth and verification to the Turkish genocide \nthat is hard to match. A hundred years ago Armenians again thought \nthey could get whatever they wanted through sheer terror like the \nRussian anarchists that they accepted as role models. Several Armenian \nterror groups like ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism and Revisionism Triangle \nresorted to the same tactics in the 1980s, butchering scores of innocent\nTurks and their families in the United States and Europe. It seems that \nthey are doing it again, at a different scale, in fascist x-Soviet Armenia \ntoday.\n\n\nSource: Stanford J. Shaw, on Armenian collaboration with invading Russian\narmies in 1914, \"History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey (Volume\nII: Reform, Revolution & Republic: The Rise of Modern Turkey, 1808-1975).\"\n(London, Cambridge University Press 1977). pp. 315-316.\n\n\"In April 1915 Dashnaks from Russian Armenia organized a revolt in the city \n of Van, whose 33,789 Armenians comprised 42.3 percent of the population, \n closest to an Armenian majority of any city in the Empire...Leaving Erivan \n on April 28, 1915, Armenian volunteers reached Van on May 14 and organized \n and carried out a general slaughter of the local Muslim population during \n the next two days while the small Ottoman garrison had to retreat to the\n southern side of the lake.\"\n\n\"Knowing their numbers would never justify their territorial ambitions,\n Armenians looked to Russia and Europe for the fulfillment of their aims.\n Armenian treachery in this regard culminated at the beginning of the First\n World War with the decision of the revolutionary organizations to refuse\n to serve their state, the Ottoman Empire, and to assist instead other\n invading Russian armies. Their hope was their participation in the Russian\n success would be rewarded with an independent Armenian state carved out of\n Ottoman territories. Armenian political leaders, army officers, and common\n soldiers began deserting in droves.\"\n\n\"With the Russian invasion of eastern Anatolia in 1914 at the beginning of\n World War I, the degree of Armenian collaboration with the Ottoman's enemy\n increased drastically. Ottoman supply lines were cut by guerilla attacks,\n Armenian revolutionaries armed Armenian civil populations, who in turn\n massacred the Muslim population of the province of Van in anticipation of\n expected arrival of the invading Russian armies.\"\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nVery simple.\n\n\"X-Soviet Armenian government must pay for their crime of genocide \n against 2.5 million Muslims by admitting to the crime and making \n reparations to the Turks and Kurds.\"\n\nAfter all, your criminal grandparents exterminated 2.5 million Muslim\npeople between 1914 and 1920.\n\n\n\nhovig@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Hovig Heghinian)\n\n\nYou must be a new Armenian clown. You are counting on ASALA/SDPA/ARF \ncrooks and criminals to prove something for you? No wonder you are in \nsuch a mess. That criminal idiot and 'its' forged/non-existent junk has \nalready been trashed out by Mutlu, Cosar, Akgun, Uludamar, Akman, Oflazer \nand hundreds of people. Moreover, ASALA/SDPA/ARF criminals are responsible \nfor the massacre of the Turkish people that also prevent them from entering \nTurkiye and TRNC. SDPA has yet to renounce its charter which specifically \ncalls for the second genocide of the Turkish people. This racist, barbarian \nand criminal view has been touted by the fascist x-Soviet Armenian government \nas merely a step on the road to said genocide. \n\nNow where shall I begin?\n\n#From: ahmet@eecg.toronto.edu (Parlakbilek Ahmet)\n#Subject: YALANCI, LIAR : DAVIDIAN\n#Keywords: Davidian, the biggest liar\n#Message-ID: <1991Jan10.122057.11613@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu>\n\nFollowing is the article that Davidian claims that Hasan Mutlu is a liar:\n\n\n\n\n\n\n[some parts are deleted]\n\n\n\n\n\t\t\t\t- - -\n\n\n\n\nReceiving this message, I checked the reference, L.Kuper,\"Genocide...\" and\nwhat I have found was totally consistent with what Davidian said.The book\nwas like \"voice of Armenian revolutionists\" and although I read the whole book,\nI could not find the original quota.\nBut there was one more thing to check:The original posting of Mutlu.I found \nthe original article of Mutlu.It is as follows:\n\n\n\n ======================================================================\n ======\n\nQUATO IS THE SAME, REFERENCE IS DIFFERENT !\n\nDAVIDIAN LIED AGAIN, AND THIS TIME HE CHANGED THE ORIGINAL POSTING OF MUTLU\nJUST TO ACCUSE HIM TO BE A LIAR.\n\nDavidian, thank you for writing the page number correctly...\n\nYou are the biggest liar I have ever seen.This example showed me that tomorrow\nyou can lie again, and you may try to make me a liar this time.So I decided\nnot to read your articles and not to write answers to you.I also advise\nall the netters to do the same.We can not prevent your lies, but at least\nwe may save time by not dealing with your lies.\n\nAnd for the following line:\n\nI also return all the insults you wrote about Mutlu to you.\nI hope you will be drowned in your lies.\n\nAhmet PARLAKBILEK\n\n#From: vd8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Vedat Dogan)\n#Message-ID: <1993Apr8.233029.29094@news.columbia.edu>\n\n \nn>crap posted by Mr. [(*]!\n \n o boy! \n \n Please, can you tell us why those quotes are \"crap\"?..because you do not \n like them!!!...because they really exist...why?\n \n As I said in my previous posting, those quotes exactly exist in the source \n given by Serdar Argic .. \n \n You couldn't reject it...\n \n \n Here we go again..\n In the book I have, both the front page and the Author's preface give \n the same year: 1923 and 15 January, 1923, respectively!\n (Anyone can check it at her/his library,if not, I can send you the copies of\n pages, please ask by sct) \n \n \nI really don't care what year it was first published(1923 or 1924)\nWhat I care about is what the book writes about murders, tortures,et..in\nthe given quotes by Serdar Argic, and your denial of these quotes..and your\ngroundless accussations, etc. \n \n[...]\n \n \n I claim I have a book in my hand published in 1923(first publication)\n and it exactly has the same quoted info as the book published\n in 1934(Serdar Argic's Reference) has..You couldn't reject it..but, now you\n are avoiding the real issues by twisting around..\n \n Let's see how you lie!..(from 'non-existing' quotes to re-publication)\n \n First you said there was no such a quote in the given reference..You\n called Serdar Argic a liar!..\n I said to you, NO, MR.Davidian, there exactly existed such a quote...\n (I even gave the call number, page numbers..you could't reject it.)\n \n And now, you are lying again and talking about \"modified,re-published book\"\n(without any proof :how, when, where, by whom, etc..)..\n (by the way, how is it possible to re-publish the book in 1923 if it was\n first published in 1924(your claim).I am sure that you have some 'pretty \n well suited theories', as usual)\n \n And I am ready to send the copies of the necessary pages to anybody who\n wants to compare the fact and Mr.Davidian's lies...I also give the call number\n and page numbers again for the library use, which are: \n 949.6 R 198\n \n and the page numbers to verify the quotes:218 and 215\n \n \n \n \n Now, are you claiming that there can't be such a reference by saying \"it is\n not possible...\" ..If not, what is your point?\n \n Differences in the number of pages?\n Mine was published in 1923..Serdar Argic's was in 1934..\n No need to use the same book size and the same letter \n charachter in both publications,etc, etc.. does it give you an idea!!\n \n The issue was not the number of pages the book has..or the year\n first published.. \n And you tried to hide the whole point..\n the point is that both books have the exactly the same quotes about\n how moslems are killed, tortured,etc by Armenians..and those quotes given \n by Serdar Argic exist!! \n It was the issue, wasn't-it? \n \n you were not able to object it...Does it bother you anyway? \n \n You name all these tortures and murders (by Armenians) as a \"crap\"..\n People who think like you are among the main reasons why the World still\n has so many \"craps\" in the 1993. \n \n Any question?\n \n\n\nhovig@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Hovig Heghinian)\n\n\nWell, apparently we have another son of Dro 'the Butcher' to contend with. \nYou should indeed be happy to know that you rekindled a huge discussion on\ndistortions propagated by several of your contemporaries. If you feel \nthat you can simply act as an Armenian governmental crony in this forum \nyou will be sadly mistaken and duly embarrassed. This is not a lecture to \nanother historical revisionist and a genocide apologist, but a fact.\n\nI will dissect article-by-article, paragraph-by-paragraph, line-by-line, \nlie-by-lie, revision-by-revision, written by those on this net, who plan \nto 'prove' that the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Turks and Kurds is \nnothing less than a classic un-redressed genocide. We are neither in \nx-Soviet Union, nor in some similar ultra-nationalist fascist dictatorship, \nthat employs the dictates of Hitler to quell domestic unrest. Also, feel \nfree to distribute all responses to your nearest ASALA/SDPA/ARF terrorists,\nthe Armenian pseudo-scholars, or to those affiliated with the Armenian\ncriminal organizations.\n\nArmenian government got away with the genocide of 2.5 million Turkish men,\nwomen and children and is enjoying the fruits of that genocide. You, and \nthose like you, will not get away with the genocide's cover-up.\n\nNot a chance.\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nTypical 'Arromdian' of the ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism and Revisionism \nTriangle. Well, does it change the fact that during the period of 1914 \nto 1920, the Armenian Government ordered, incited, assisted and participated \nin the genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people because of race, religion\nand national origin?\n\n\n1) Armenians did slaughter the entire Muslim population of Van.[1,2,3,4,5]\n2) Armenians did slaughter 42% of Muslim population of Bitlis.[1,2,3,4]\n3) Armenians did slaughter 31% of Muslim population of Erzurum.[1,2,3,4]\n4) Armenians did slaughter 26% of Muslim population of Diyarbakir.[1,2,3,4]\n5) Armenians did slaughter 16% of Muslim population of Mamuretulaziz.[1,2,3,4]\n6) Armenians did slaughter 15% of Muslim population of Sivas.[1,2,3,4]\n7) Armenians did slaughter the entire Muslim population of the x-Soviet\n Armenia.[1,2,3,4]\n8) .....\n\n[1] McCarthy, J., \"Muslims and Minorities, The Population of Ottoman \n Anatolia and the End of the Empire,\" New York \n University Press, New York, 1983, pp. 133-144.\n\n[2] Karpat, K., \"Ottoman Population,\" The University of Wisconsin Press,\n 1985.\n\n[3] Hovannisian, R. G., \"Armenia on the Road to Independence, 1918. \n University of California Press (Berkeley and \n Los Angeles), 1967, pp. 13, 37.\n\n[4] Shaw, S. J., 'On Armenian collaboration with invading Russian armies \n in 1914, \"History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey \n (Volume II: Reform, Revolution & Republic: The Rise of \n Modern Turkey, 1808-1975).\" (London, Cambridge University \n Press 1977). pp. 315-316.\n\n[5] \"Gochnak\" (Armenian newspaper published in the United States), May 24, \n 1915.\n\n\nSource: \"Adventures in the Near East\" by A. Rawlinson, Jonathan Cape, \n30 Bedford Square, London, 1934 (First published 1923) (287 pages).\n(Memoirs of a British officer who witnessed the Armenian genocide of 2.5 \n million Muslim people)\n\np. 178 (first paragraph)\n\n\"In those Moslem villages in the plain below which had been searched for\n arms by the Armenians everything had been taken under the cloak of such\n search, and not only had many Moslems been killed, but horrible tortures \n had been inflicted in the endeavour to obtain information as to where\n valuables had been hidden, of which the Armenians were aware of the \n existence, although they had been unable to find them.\"\n\np. 175 (first paragraph)\n\n\"The arrival of this British brigade was followed by the announcement\n that Kars Province had been allotted by the Supreme Council of the\n Allies to the Armenians, and that announcement having been made, the\n British troops were then completely withdrawn, and Armenian occupation\n commenced. Hence all the trouble; for the Armenians at once commenced\n the wholesale robbery and persecution of the Muslem population on the\n pretext that it was necessary forcibly to deprive them of their arms.\n In the portion of the province which lies in the plains they were able\n to carry out their purpose, and the manner in which this was done will\n be referred to in due course.\"\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nIs this a figment of your imagination? Here is another one:\n\n\n Source: \"Mitteilungsblatt, Berlin, December 1939, Nr. 2 and 5-6\"\n\n Yet another historical fact: a fact that for years has been deliberately \n forgotten, concealed, and wiped from memory - the fact of Armenian-Nazi \n collaboration.\n\n A magazine called Mitteilungsblatt der Deutsch-Armenischen Gesselschaft\n is the clearest and most definite proof of this collaboration. The \n magazine was first published in Berlin in 1938 during Nazi rule of Germany\n and continued publication until the end of 1944. Even the name of the\n magazine, which implies a declaration of Armenian-Nazi cooperation,\n is attention-getting.\n\n This magazine, every issue of which proves the collaboration, is historically\n important as documentary evidence. It is a heap of writing that should be\n an admonition to world opinion and to all mankind. \n\n In Nazi Germany, Armenians were considered to be an Aryan race and certain\n political, economic, and social rights were thus granted to them. They \n occupied positions in public service and were partners in Nazi practices.\n The whole world of course knows what awaited those who were not considered \n \"Aryan\" and what befell them.\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nAnyone care to speculate on this? I'll let the rest of the net judge\nthis on its own merits. Between 1914 and 1920, 2.5 million Turks perished \nof butchery at the hands of Armenians. The genocide involved not only \nthe killing of innocents but their forcible deportation from the Russian \nArmenia. They were persecuted, banished, and slaughtered while much of \nOttoman Army was engaged in World War I. The Genocide Treaty defines \ngenocide as acting with a \n\n 'specific intent to destroy, in whole or in substantial part, a \n national, ethnic, racial or religious group.' \n\nHistory shows that the x-Soviet Armenian Government intended to eradicate \nthe Muslim population. 2.5 million Turks and Kurds were exterminated by the \nArmenians. International diplomats in Ottoman Empire at the time - including \nU.S. Ambassador Bristol - denounced the x-Soviet Armenian Government's policy \nas a massacre of the Kurds, Turks, and Tartars. The blood-thirsty leaders of \nthe x-Soviet Armenian Government at the time personally involved in the \nextermination of the Muslims. The Turkish genocide museums in Turkiye honor \nthose who died during the Turkish massacres perpetrated by the Armenians. \n\nThe eyewitness accounts and the historical documents established,\nbeyond any doubt, that the massacres against the Muslim people\nduring the war were planned and premeditated. The aim of the policy\nwas clearly the extermination of all Turks in x-Soviet Armenian \nterritories.\n\nThe Muslims of Van, Bitlis, Mus, Erzurum and Erzincan districts and\ntheir wives and children have been taken to the mountains and killed.\nThe massacres in Trabzon, Tercan, Yozgat and Adana were organized and\nperpetrated by the blood-thirsty leaders of the x-Soviet Armenian \nGovernment.\n\nThe principal organizers of the slaughter of innocent Muslims were\nDro, Antranik, Armen Garo, Hamarosp, Daro Pastirmadjian, Keri,\nKarakin, Haig Pajise-liantz and Silikian.\n\nSource: \"Bristol Papers\", General Correspondence: Container #32 - Bristol\n to Bradley Letter of September 14, 1920.\n\n\"I have it from absolute first-hand information that the Armenians in \n the Caucasus attacked Tartar (Turkish) villages that are utterly \n defenseless and bombarded these villages with artillery and they murder\n the inhabitants, pillage the village and often burn the village.\"\n\n\nSources: (The Ottoman State, the Ministry of War), \"Islam Ahalinin \nDucar Olduklari Mezalim Hakkinda Vesaike Mustenid Malumat,\" (Istanbul, 1918). \nThe French version: \"Documents Relatifs aux Atrocites Commises par les Armeniens\nsur la Population Musulmane,\" (Istanbul, 1919). In the Latin script: H. K.\nTurkozu, ed., \"Osmanli ve Sovyet Belgeleriyle Ermeni Mezalimi,\" (Ankara,\n1982). In addition: Z. Basar, ed., \"Ermenilerden Gorduklerimiz,\" (Ankara,\n1974) and, edited by the same author, \"Ermeniler Hakkinda Makaleler -\nDerlemeler,\" (Ankara, 1978). \"Askeri Tarih Belgeleri ...,\" Vol. 32, 83\n(December 1983), document numbered 1881.\n\"Askeri Tarih Belgeleri ....,\" Vol. 31, 81 (December 1982), document\n numbered 1869.\n\n\"Those who were capable of fighting were taken away at the very beginning\n with the excuse of forced labor in road construction, they were taken\n in the direction of Sarikamis and annihilated. When the Russian army\n withdrew, a part of the remaining people was destroyed in Armenian\n massacres and cruelties: they were thrown into wells, they were locked\n in houses and burned down, they were killed with bayonets and swords, in places\n selected as butchering spots, their bellies were torn open, their lungs\n were pulled out, and girls and women were hanged by their hair after\n being subjected to every conceivable abominable act. A very small part \n of the people who were spared these abominations far worse than the\n cruelty of the inquisition resembled living dead and were suffering\n from temporary insanity because of the dire poverty they had lived\n in and because of the frightful experiences they had been subjected to.\n Including women and children, such persons discovered so far do not\n exceed one thousand five hundred in Erzincan and thirty thousand in\n Erzurum. All the fields in Erzincan and Erzurum are untilled, everything\n that the people had has been taken away from them, and we found them\n in a destitute situation. At the present time, the people are subsisting\n on some food they obtained, impelled by starvation, from Russian storages\n left behind after their occupation of this area.\"\n \nSerdar Argic", "\n\nCome again? The image-conscious Armenians sorely feel a missing \nglory in their background. Armenians have never achieved statehood \nand independence, they have always been subservient, and engaged \nin undermining schemes against their rulers. They committed \ngenocide against the Muslim populations of Eastern Anatolia \nand x-Soviet Armenia before and during World War I and fully \nparticipated in the extermination of the European Jewry \nduring World War II. Belligerence, genocide, back-stabbing, \nrebelliousness and disloyalty have been the hallmarks of the \nArmenian history. To obliterate these episodes the Armenians \nengaged in tailoring history to suit their whims. In this zeal \nthey tried to cover up the cold-blooded genocide of 2.5 million \nTurks and Kurds before and during World War I.\n\nAnd the justice is long overdue.\n\n\nSource: Documents: Volume I (1919).\n \"Document No: 50,\" Archive No: 4/3621, Cabin No: 162, Drawer \n No: 5, File No: 2905, Section No: 433, Contents No: 6, 6-1, 6-2.\n (To 36th Division Command - Militia Commander Ismail Hakki)\n\n\"For eight days, Armenians have been forcibly obstructing people from\n leaving their homes or going from one village to the other. Day and night\n they are rounding up male inhabitants, taking them to unknown destinations,\n after which nothing further is heard of them. (Informed from statements\n of those who succeeded in escaping wounded from the massacres around\n Taskilise ruins). Women and children are being openly murdered or are\n being gathered in the Church Square and similar places. Most inhuman and\n barbarous acts have been committed against Moslems for eight days.\"\n \n\n \"Document No: 52,\" Archive No: 4/3671, Cabin No: 163, Drawer \n No: 1, File No: 2907, Section No: 440, Contents No: 6-6, 6-7.\n (To: 1st Caucasian Army Corps Command, 2nd Caucasian Army Corps\n Command, Communications Zone Inspectorate - Commander 3rd Army\n General)\n\n\"As almost all Russian units opposite our front have been withdrawn, the\n population loyal to us in regions behind the Russian positions are\n facing an ever-increasing threat and suppression as well as cruelties\n and abuses by Armenians who have decided to systematically annihilate\n the Moslem population in regions under their occupation. I have \n regularly informed the Russian Command of these atrocities and\n cruelties and I have gained the impression that the above authority\n seems to be failing in restoring order.\"\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "The Armenians were deeply anti-semitic as well. In the May 10, 1936 \nedition of 'Hairenik Weekly' the vice-mayor of Bucharest, Rumania is \nquoted as saying:\n\n\"The Armenians helped us not to become the slaves of the Jewish\n elements in our country.\"\n\n\n\"And the type of Jew who is imported to Palestine...is not anything\n to be proud about. Their loose morals, and other vices were\n unknown to the Arabs prior to Balfour Declaration, on top of \n all communist activities were the cause of most of the Arab\n criticism.\"[1]\n\nAs Uzun exposed, the Armenians were fascist. Before Pearl Harbor, \nthe Dashnak daily 'Hairenik' (not to be confused with the Tzeghagrons\n'Hairenik Weekly') expressed pro-Nazi sentiments:\n\n\"And came Adolf Hitler, after herculean struggles. He spoke\n to the racial heart strings of the German, opened the \n fountain of his national genius, strock down the spirit\n of defeatism...At no period since the World War had Berlin\n conducted so realistic, well organized, and planned policy\n as now, since Hitler's assumption to power...And whatever\n others may think concerning Hitlerism and Fascism as a \n system of Government, it is proved that they have revitalized\n and regenerated the two states, Germany and Italy.\"[2]\n\n[1] Captain George Haig, 'The Case of Palestine,' in Hairenik\n Weekly, Friday, September 25, 1936.\n[2] 'Hairenik,' official organ of the Dashnaktsuitune, Sept. \n 17, 1936; quoted in John Roy Carlson, 'The Armenian Displaced\n Persons' (see endnote 1), p. 21.\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\n\nYou are not sticking to the original question. Imagine what it\nwould be like if you were human...impossible you say?\n\n\n\nIs that not the crux of my argument? Why is this so difficult\nfor you to understand? Lack of intelligence?\n\n\n\nWell, does it change the fact that during the period of 1914 to 1920, \nthe Armenian Government ordered, incited, assisted and participated \nin the genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people because of race, religion\nand national origin?\n\n1) Armenians did slaughter the entire Muslim population of Van.[1,2,3,4,5]\n2) Armenians did slaughter 42% of Muslim population of Bitlis.[1,2,3,4]\n3) Armenians did slaughter 31% of Muslim population of Erzurum.[1,2,3,4]\n4) Armenians did slaughter 26% of Muslim population of Diyarbakir.[1,2,3,4]\n5) Armenians did slaughter 16% of Muslim population of Mamuretulaziz.[1,2,3,4]\n6) Armenians did slaughter 15% of Muslim population of Sivas.[1,2,3,4]\n7) Armenians did slaughter the entire Muslim population of the x-Soviet\n Armenia.[1,2,3,4]\n8)....\n\n[1] McCarthy, J., \"Muslims and Minorities, The Population of Ottoman \n Anatolia and the End of the Empire,\" New York \n University Press, New York, 1983, pp. 133-144.\n\n[2] Karpat, K., \"Ottoman Population,\" The University of Wisconsin Press,\n 1985.\n\n[3] Hovannisian, R. G., \"Armenia on the Road to Independence, 1918. \n University of California Press (Berkeley and \n Los Angeles), 1967, pp. 13, 37.\n\n[4] Shaw, S. J., 'On Armenian collaboration with invading Russian armies \n in 1914, \"History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey \n (Volume II: Reform, Revolution & Republic: The Rise of \n Modern Turkey, 1808-1975).\" (London, Cambridge University \n Press 1977). pp. 315-316.\n\n[5] \"Gochnak\" (Armenian newspaper published in the United States), May 24, \n 1915.\n\n\nSource: Jorge Blanco Villalta, 'Ataturk,' TKK, 1979, pg. 234.\n \n\"They [Armenians] did not refrain from giving in to their racial \n hatred and committing acts of cruelty and massacres against the\n Moslem population, which were encouraged by the 'Tashnak' party,\n mortal enemies of Turkey.\"\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "\nNope, Germany has extremely restrictive citizenship laws. The \nethnic Germans who have lived in Russia for over 100 years \nautomatically become citizens if they move to Germany, but the\nTurks who are now in their third generation in Germany can't.\nIt's not a very good example to show citizenship without descent.\n\nKarl\n -----------------------------------------------------------------------------", "\nXenophobic trash deleted.\n\n\nIf you're going to go to those extremes, I guess you'd better start \npacking. Because unless you're a Native North American, this isn't\nyour continent either. ", "\n\n\nIt is called 'The Justice'. We also demand that the x-Soviet Armenian \nGovernment admit its responsibility for the Turkish and Kurdish \nGenocide, render reparations to the Muslim people, and return the \nland to its rightful owners. The recognition of the Genocide has \nbecome an issue which cannot be delayed further, and it is imperative \nthat artificial obstacles created for political manipulations be removed.\n\n\nAre you the 'truelove' or 'falselove' of 'Arromdian' of the ASALA/SDPA/ARF\nTerrorism and Revisionism Triangle? \n\n\"If Turks had behaved like Christians to use force to convert to Islam the\nnations which they brought under their power, to which no one could have\nopposed, today there would be no Eastern problem. But Turks did not do so. \nThey obeyed the word of the Koran to permit everybody \"to worship in their own\nway\" centuries before Frederick the Great pronounced his famous dictum. Thus,\nin an age when the Christian Europe itself shed Christian blood and when \npeople in Europe enjoyed inflicting inhuman tortures upon those whose beliefs\ndiffered from theirs, the Ottoman Empire became the sole country where the\ninquisition did not exist, where deaths at the stake were unheard of and \nwhere accusations of witchcraft were not made. And the barbarian (!) Turkey\nwas the only country where the Jews persecuted and chased away everywhere\nby the Christians, could find asylum. These facts demonstrate that Muslim\ncountries provided spiritually far better living conditions than Christian\ncountries.\"[1]\n\n\"The Turks, who are a conquering nation, did not Turkify the nations that came\nunder their rule; instead, they respected their religions and traditions. It\nwas a stroke of luck for Romania to live under Turkish rule instead of\nRussian or Austrian rule. Because otherwise there would not have been a\nRomanian nation today\" (Popescu Ciocanel).\n\n\"Turks rule over people under their administration only externally, without\ninterfering with their internal structures. On account of this, the autonomy\nof minorities in Turkey is better and more complete than any in the most\nadvanced European countries.\"[2]\n\n\"...human beings hate each other on account of religious differences. This flaw\nis older than Islam and Christianity. But there has never been any examples\nof this adjuration in Turkey because Turks never oppress anybody on account\nof his religion. If enmity on the basis of religion had been such a case of\nsimple contempt among us too, or if it did not keep translating itself into\naction, many nations in our Europe would probably have considered themselves\nhappy!\" (A. de Mortraye).[3]\n\n\"Turkey never became a scene for religious terror or for the cruelty of the\ninquisition. On the contrary, it served as an asylum for the unfortunate\nvictims of Christian fanaticism. If you look into history, you will see that\nin the fifteenth century thousands of Jews who were expelled from Spain and\nPortugal found such a good asylum in Turkey that their descendants have been\nliving there very calmly all through these approximately three hundred years,\nand are only forced to defend themselves in some countries against the\ncruelty of Christians, especially that of the Orthodoxes. No Jew is able to\nappear in public during Easter celebrations in Athens, even today. In Turkey,\nhowever, if the Israelites are insulted by the Greek and Armenian communities,\nlocal courts immediately take them under their protection.\"\n\n\"In that vast and calm country of the sultan, all religions and nations are\nliving together peacefully. Although the mosque is superior to the church and\nthe synagogue, it does not replace them. Because of this, the Catholic sect is\nmore free in Istanbul and Smyrna compared with Paris and Lyon. In addition \nto the fact that no law in Turkey prohibits the open-air ceremonies of this \nsect, neither does any law imprison its cross in the church. While the\ndead are being taken to the graves, a long line of priests bear processional\ncandles and chant Catholic hymns. When all the priests in all the churches in\nthe Galata and Beyoglu districts go into the streets and form clerical\nprocessions during the Eucharist celebrations, chanting hymns and bearing\ntheir crosses and religious banners, a detachment of soldiers escorts them\nwhich forces even the Turks to stand in respect around the group of \npriests.\" (A. Ubicini).[4]\n\n[1] Ah. Djevat, \"Yabancilara Gore Eski Turkler,\" 3rd ed. (Istanbul, 1978),\n pp. 70-71.\n[2] Ibid., p.91.\n[3] Ibid., pp. 214-215.\n[4] Ibid., pp. 215-216.\n\nSerdar Argic", "Message-ID: <1993Apr15.174657.6176@news.uiowa.edu> Mr.Napoleon responds:\n\n*******************************************************\n********************* TO MR. NAPOLEON******************\n*******************************************************\n\n\n** There were a couple millions of Greeks living in Asia Minor\n**until 1923 Someone had to protect them. If not us who??\n\n\nIs that so? or you were taking advantage of weakness of ottoman\nempire to grab some land. As soon as you got green lights from\nallied forces, you occupied Izmir and other cities in western\nTurkey. You killed and raped millions people without any reason.\nOf course, you paid the price. Mustafa Kemal Ataturk made\nyou swim in aegean sea but not far enough. Your aggressions thru\nTurkey at anytime in the past did not get you any reward and shall\nnot get you anywhere.\n\n\n**Compromise on what, the invasion of Cyprus, the involment of Turkey in\n**Greek politics, the refusal of Turkey to accept 12 miles of territorial\n**waters as stated by international law, the properties of the Greeks of\n**Konstantinople, the ownership of the islands in the Greek lake,sorry, Aegean.\n\n\nWhat compromise are you talking about on Cyprus. That is not Greece\nbusiness to join the island to Greece. That is up to people in the island\nto live or not to live together. They made their decision and they are\nliving separetely now.There is a peace there. Greeks can't slaughter\nTurks anymore because turkish peacemaking force is there.\nYour dream will never come true. 12 mile territorialwater!!!!\nAre you joking or dreaming? We can declare our 12 miles territorial\nwater which can come close to Athens. How would you like it?\nIf you have any guts why don't you shoot at some Turkish ships\nin your dream 12 mile territorial waters?\nWe do not have any city called Konstantinople. We have a city\ncalled ISTANBUL!!!! All the greeks in Istanbul are being\ntreated just any other Turks. There is no difference among people\nin Turkey. You look at your own backyard first before talking\nabout human rights in Turkey. What are the rights of Turks in Greece?\nNothing. They do not even have basic human rights like right to\nhave property, fredom of religion, fredom of press, fredom of\nvote elect their community leaders. Government of Greece publicly\nencourages people to destroy and burn schools, religious places,\nhouses, and farms belong to turkish minority. Then, Greek government\nforces these minorities to go to Turkey without anything with them.\nYou will dream to see Aegean sea as Greek lake but it will never\nhappen. Think about the war between Turkey and Greece in 1915.\nThe river called SAKARYA flood 21 days filled with blood in 1915.\n\n\n\n**Any person who supports the policies of the Turkish goverment\n**directly or indirecly is a \"bad\" person.\n**It is not your nationality that makes you bad, it is your support\n**of the actions of your goverment that make you \"bad\".\n**People do not hate you because of who you are but because of what you\n**are. You are a supporter of the policies of the Turkish goverment and\n**as a such you must pay the price.\n\n\nYou mean that any person who supports the actions and policies of the\ngovernment of Greece is a good person. That is your Greek idea to\nsay Turks are bad people. We know who we are and proud to be TURKS\nanywhere in the world. That is not Greeks business to tell us what\nkind of people we are. You are not at position to judge people because\nyou are not civilized enough to give equal rights to your own minorities.\nMillions of minorities are being treated as third class citizen,\ntheir rights are taken away from them, and they have no voices under\nthe Government of Greece. They are almost being treated as slaves\neven though we are getting into 21th century. Therefore, do not make me\nlaught at you.\n\n\n\n**You do not need brainwashing to turn people against the Turks.Just\n**as Greeks, Arats, Slavs, Kurds and all other people who had\n**the luck to be under Turkish occupation.\n**They will talk to you about murders,rapes,distruction.\n**You do not learn about Turks from history books, you learn about\n**them from people who experienced first hand Turkish friendliness.\n\nThe Government of Greece is actively supporting terrorism against\nTurkey.Armenian and Kurdish terrorists have headquarters in Athens.\nThey are being trained in special camps in Greece. They are taught how to\nkill innocent women and children.This not a claim, this is a fact known\nby whole world. In conlusion, you are in action to murder, rape,\ndestroy the innocent people. I do not take you seriously because you\nare not at any positions to talk about human rights and dignity.\nYour own government, the Government of Greece actively supports\natrocities in Bosnia. Serbs's Barbarism pleases your government.\nPlease Napoleon think twice before you write anything about Turks and\nTurkey. You are the worst in human right conditions and treatment of\nthe minorities. Who wants to be a fried with someone whose government\ndoes not respect the human rights, supports terrorism in Turkey,barbaric\nactions in Bosnia, treats Turkish minorities as third class citizen and\ntake away all of their rights, treating them as slaves at the beginning\nof 21th century???????\n\nAykut Atalay Atakan", "[stuff deleted]\n\n\nGimme a break. CAPITAL letters, or NOT, the above is pure nonsense. It\nseems to me that short sighted Armenians are escalating the hostilities\nwhile hoping that Turkey will stay out. Stop and think for a moment,\nwill you? Armenia doesn't need anyone to drag her into the conflict, it\nis a part of it. \n\n\nHuh? You didn't expect Azeri's to be friendly to forces fighting with them\nwithin their borders? \n\n[...]\n\nYou're not playing with a full deck, are you? Where would Turkey invade?\nAre you throwing the Cyprus buzzword around with s.c.g. in the header\nin hopes that the Greek netters will jump the gun? Yes indeed Turkey\nhas the military prowess to intervene, what she wishes she had, however, is \nthe diplomatic power to stop the hostilities and bring the parties to the\nnegotiating table. That's hard to do when Armenians are attacking Azeri \ntowns. Armenian leaders are lacking the statesmanship to recognize the \nfutility of armed conflict and convince their nation that a compromise that \nleads to stability is much better than a military faits accomplis that's \ngoing to cause incessant skirmishes. Think of 10 or 20 years down the \nline -- both of the newly independent countries need to develop economically\nand neither one is going to wipe the other out. These people will be\nneighbors, would it not be better to keep the bad blood between them minimal?\n\nIf you belong to the Armenian diaspora, keep in mind that what strikes\nyour fancy on the map is costing the local Armenians dearly in terms of their\nblood and future. It's easy to be comfortable abroad and propagandize \ncraziness to have your feelings about Turks tickled. The Armenians\nin Armenia and N-K will be there, with the same people you seem to hate \nas their neighbors, for maybe 3000 years more. The sooner there's peace in\nthe region the better it is for them and everyone else. I'd push for\ncompromise if I were you instead of hitting the caps-lock and spreading\ninflammatory half-truths.\n\ncheers,", "Source: Channel 4 News at 19.00, Monday 2 March 1992.\n2 French journalists have seen 32 corpses of men, women and children \nin civilian clothes. Many of them shot dead from their heads as close \nas less than 1 meter.\n\nSource: BBC1 Morning news at 07.37, Tuesday 3 March 1992.\nBBC reporter was live on line and he claimed that he saw more than 100\nbodies of Azeri men, women and children as well as a baby who are shot\ndead from their heads from a very short distance.\n\nSource: BBC1 Morning news at 08:12, Tuesday 3 March 1992.\nVery disturbing picture has shown that many civilian corpses who were \npicked up from mountain. Reporter said he, cameraman and Western \nJournalists have seen more than 100 corpses, who are men, women, \nchildren, massacred by Armenians. They have been shot dead from their \nheads as close as 1 meter. Picture also has shown nearly ten bodies \n(mainly women and children) are shot dead from their heads. Azerbaijan \nclaimed that more than 1000 civilians massacred by Armenian forces.\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "henrik] Country. Turks and Azeris consistantly WANT to drag ARMENIA into the\nhenrik] KARABAKH conflict with Azerbaijan. \n\nBM] Gimme a break. CAPITAL letters, or NOT, the above is pure nonsense. It\nBM] seems to me that short sighted Armenians are escalating the hostilities\n\t\t ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n Again, Armenians in KARABAKH are SIMPLY defending themselves. What do\n want them to do. Lay down their ARMS and let Azeris walk all over them.\n\nBM] while hoping that Turkey will stay out. Stop and think for a moment,\nBM] will you? Armenia doesn't need anyone to drag her into the conflict, it\nBM] is a part of it. \n\nArmenians KNEW from the begining that TURKS were FULLY engaged \ntraining AZERIS militarily to fight against KARABAKHI-Armenians.\n\t\nhenrik] The KARABAKHI-ARMENIANS who have lived in their HOMELAND for 3000 \nhenrik] years (CUT OFF FROM ARMENIA and GIVEN TO AZERIS BY STALIN) are the \nhenrik] ones DIRECTLY involved in the CONFLICT. They are defending \nhenrik] themselves against AZERI AGGRESSION. \n\nBM] Huh? You didn't expect Azeri's to be friendly to forces fighting with them\nBM] within their borders? \n\n\tWell, history is SAD. Remember, those are relocated Azeris into \n the Armenian LAND of KARABAKH by the STALIN regime.\n\nhenrik] At last, I hope that the U.S. insists that Turkey stay out of the \nhenrik] KARABAKH crisis so that the repeat of the CYPRUS invasion WILL NEVER \nhenrik] OCCUR again.\n\nBM] You're not playing with a full deck, are you? Where would Turkey invade?\n\n It is not up to me to speculate but I am sure Turkey would have stepped\n into Armenia if SHE could.\n \nBM] Are you throwing the Cyprus buzzword around with s.c.g. in the header\nBM] in hopes that the Greek netters will jump the gun? \n\n\tAbsolutely NOT ! I am merely trying to emphasize that in many\n cases, HISTORY repeats itself. \n\nBM] Yes indeed Turkey has the military prowess to intervene, what she wishes \nBM] she had, however, is the diplomatic power to stop the hostilities and bring\nBM] the parties to the negotiating table. That's hard to do when Armenians \nBM] are attacking Azeri towns.\n\n\tSo, let me understand in plain WORDS what you are saying; Turkey\n wants a PEACEFUL END to this CONFLICT. NOT !!\n\n\tI will believe it when I see it.\n\n\tNow, as far as attacking, what do you do when you see a GUN pointing\n to your HEAD ? Do you sit there and WATCH or DEFEND yoursef(fat chance)?\n\tDo you remember what Azeris did to the Armenians in BAKU ? All the\n\tBARBERIAN ACTS especially against MOTHERS and their CHILDREN. I mean\n\tBURNING people ALIVE !\n\nBM] Armenian leaders are lacking the statesmanship to recognize the \nBM] futility of armed conflict and convince their nation that a compromise that \nBM] leads to stability is much better than a military faits accomplis that's \nBM] going to cause incessant skirmishes. \n\n\tArmenians in KARABAKH want PEACE and their own republic. They are \n NOT asking much. They simply want to get back what was TAKEN AWAY \n\tfrom them and GIVEN to AZERIS by STALIN. \n\nBM] Think of 10 or 20 years down the line -- both of the newly independent \nBM] countries need to develop economically and neither one is going to wipe \nBM] the other out. These people will be neighbors, would it not be better \nBM] to keep the bad blood between them minimal?\n\n\tDon't get me WRONG. I also want PEACEFUL solution to the\n\tconflict. But until Azeris realize that, the Armenians in\n\tKARABAKH will defend themselves against aggresion.\n\nBM] If you belong to the Armenian diaspora, keep in mind that what strikes\nBM] your fancy on the map is costing the local Armenians dearly in terms of \nBM] their blood and future. \n\n\tAgain, you are taking different TURNS. Armenia HAS no intension\n to GRAB any LAND from Azerbaijan. The Armenians in KARABAKH\n are simply defending themselves UNTIL a solution is SET.\n\nBM] It's easy to be comfortable abroad and propagandize \nBM] craziness to have your feelings about Turks tickled. The Armenians\nBM] in Armenia and N-K will be there, with the same people you seem to hate \nBM] as their neighbors, for maybe 3000 years more. The sooner there's peace in\nBM] the region the better it is for them and everyone else. I'd push for\nBM] compromise if I were you instead of hitting the caps-lock and spreading\nBM] inflammatory half-truths.", "\n\n\nIt is 'Serdar', 'kocaoglan'.\n\n\nJust say so.\n\n The SUNDAY TIMES 8 March 1992\n Morgues fill as Azeris head for all-out war\n -------------------------------------------\n Thomas Goltz, the first to report the massacre by Armenian soldiers in\n the worst violence since the breakup of the Soviet Union, reports from\n Agdam\n ------\n Khojaly used to be a barren town, with empty shops and treeless dirt\n roads. Yet it was still home to thousands of people who, in happier\n times, tended fields and flocks of geese. Last week it was wiped off\n the map.\n .......\n As sickening reports trickled in to the Azerbaijani border town of\n Agdam, and the bodies piled up in the morgues, there was little doubt\n that Khojaly and the stark foothills and gullies around it had been\n the site of the most terrible massacre since the Soviet Union broke\n apart.\n .......\n I was the last Westerner to visit Khojaly. That was in january and\n people were predicting their fate with grim resignation. Zumrut Ezoya,\n a mother of four on board the helicopter that ferried us into the\n town, called her community \"sitting ducks, ready to get shot\". She and\n her family were among the victims of the massacre on February 26.\n .......\n \"The Armenians have taken all the outlying villages, one by one, and\n the government does nothing.\" Balakisi Sakikov, 55, a father of five,\n said. \"Next they will drive us out or kill us all,\" said Dilbar, his\n wife. The couple, their three sons and three daughters were killed in\n the assault, as were many other people I had spoken to.\n ......\n \"It was close to the Armenian lines we knew we would have to cross.\n There was a road, and the first units of the column ran across then\n all hell broke loose. Bullets were raining down from all sides. we had\n just entered their trap.\"\n The azeri defenders picked off one by one. Survivors say that Armenian\n forces then began a pitiless slaughter, firing at anything moved in\n the gullies. A video taken by an azeri cameraman, wailing and crying\n as he filmed body after body, showed a grizzly trail of death leading\n towards higher, forested ground where the villagers had sought refuge\n from the Armenians.\n \"The Armenians just shot and shot and shot,\" said Omar Veyselov, lying\n in hospital in Agdam with sharapnel wounds. \"I saw my wife and\n daughter fall right by me.\"\n People wandered through the hospital corridors looking for news of the\n loved ones. Some vented their fury on foreigners: \" Where is my\n daughter, where is my son ?\" wailed a mother. \"Raped. Butchered. Lost.\"\n Azerbaijan has said as many as 1,000 refugees were killed as they\n tried to flee. The Armenians have denied this, saying the civilians\n were caught in \"crossfire\".\n .......\n\n\nAre you idiot for real?\n\n 'After all, who remembers today the extermination of the Tartars?'\n (Adolf Hitler, August 22, 1939: Ruth W. Rosenbaum (Durusoy), \n \"The Turkish Holocaust - Turk Soykirimi\", p. 213.)\n\n\nYou must be the only moronian left on the net to believe those \nASALA/SDPA/ARF forgeries. What a clown...\n\n\n 'Kill Turks and Kurds wherever you find them and in \n whatever circumstances you find them. Turkish children \n also should be killed as they form a danger to the \n Armenian nation.' (Hamparsum Boyadjian - 1914)[1]\n\n [1] M. Varandian, \"History of the Dashnaktsutiun,\" p. 85.\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n \tAttacking? Who is attacking who? Even the country you live in,USA, have condemned\n\tArmenia for it's attacking. And you start to say that the attackers\n\tare the Azeris?????\n \t\n\t|>Armenians have lived in Nagorno Karabakh ever since there were Armenians\n\n\t?????\n\tAzeris have lived in Nagorno Karabakh ever since there were Azeris...\n\tDon't come with nonsence, there is no reason to attack a people\n\tjust because a man called \"Gorbatjov and co.\" gave the \"freedom\" to the people\n\tin this area.\n\n\n\n\t\n\n\tIt's easy for people like you to blame history. The were a lot of \n Indians living in USA. There is no reason for these \n\tIndians to attack the \"American\"\n\tpeople and say:\"It was the fault of the government of Germany and Great \n\tBritain, because they made people come to our place......\" Armenians lived in\n\tharmony with the Azeris until \"Gorbatjov and co.\" gave \"freedom\" to the people\n\tin Karabag, then the Armenians started to kill, rape and torture the Azeris, not only\n\tin Karabag but also noe in Azerbadjan....\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\t|>It's too bad you would want Turkey to start a war with Armenia.\t\n \t\t\n\t That's what i don't want, you couldn't imagine the result of a war.....\n\t So France, Greece and USA wants to start fighting with Azerbadjan???? \n\t They give a lot more weapons to the Armenians without \n\t saying it, that's no secret any more......\n\n\n\t I must say that these Armenian Government is very shortsighted.\n\t Do they think that they shall move from it's neigbours when the war\n \t is over???? The neighbour around will be there and Armenia must \t \n\t live in harmony with these if they don't want a \"stone-age\" country,\n\t for that's what's will happen Armenia if the wars continues.\n\t\n\t Look, The President of Turkey, Turgut Ozal, died and Petrosyan\n\t the Armenian Presindent is now in Turkey for the funeral. Is it because\n\t he liked him? Sure NOT, because Armenia needs it's neighbours and must\n\t live with these. But Armenia can't stop this war with continued ordertaking\n\t from states like France and USA. With other words, if you love your people\n\t you must think twice.....\n\n\t And i wonder, \"Shoot down turkish planes\" WITH WHAT????? ohhh i forgot\n\t the Armenians can't find food but there are a lot of arms from the mentioned\n\t countries.....\n\n\n\n", "\n\nNo wonder you 'wieneramus' are in such a mess. Following the Greek \nCypriot attempt to annex the island to Greece with the aid of the Greek \narmy, Turkiye intervened by using her legal right given by two international \nagreements. Turkiye did it for the frequently and conveniently forgotten \npeople of the island, Turkish Cypriots. For those Turkish Cypriots whose \ngrandparents have been living on the island since 1571. And the next is\n'Karabag'.\n\nThe people of Turkiye know quite well that Greece and the Greek \nCypriots will never abandon the idea of hellenizing Cyprus and will \nremain eternally hopeful of uniting it with Greece, someday, whatever \nthe cost to the parties involved. The history speaks for itself. Greece \nwas the sole perpetrator of invasion on that island when it sent\nits troops on July 15, 1974 in an attempt to topple the legitimate\ngovernment of Archibishop Makarios.\n\nThe release of Nikos Sampson, a member of EOKA [National Organization\nof Cypriot Fighters] and a convicted terrorist, shows that the\n'enosis' mentality continues to survive in Greece. One should not\nforget that Sampson dedicated his life to annihilating the Turks\nin Cyprus, committed murder to achieve this goal, and tried to\ndestroy the island's independence by annexing it to Greece. Of\ncourse, the Greek governments will have to bear the consequences \nfor this irresponsible conduct.\n\n THE MUSEUM OF BARBARISM\n\n2 Irfan Bey Street, Kumsal Area, Nicosia, Cyprus\n\nIt is the house of Dr. Nihat Ilhan, a major who was serving at\nthe Cyprus Turkish Army Contingent. During the attacks launched\nagainst the Turks by the Greeks, on 20th December 1963, Dr. Nihat\nIlhan's wife and three children were ruthlessly and brutally\nkilled in the bathroom, where they had tried to hide, by savage\nGreeks. Dr. Nihat Ilhan happened to be on duty that night, the\n24th December 1963. Pictures reflecting Greek atrocities\ncommitted during and after 1963 are exhibited in this house which\nhas been converted into a museum.\n\nAN EYE-WITNESS ACCOUNT OF HOW A TURKISH FAMILY WAS BUTCHERED BY\nGREEK TERRORISTS\n\nThe date is the 24th of December, 1963... The onslaught of the\nGreeks against the Turks, which started three days ago, has been\ngoing on with all its ferocity; and defenseless women, old men\nand children are being brutally killed by Greeks. And now Kumsal\nArea of Nicosia witnesses the worst example of the Greeks savage\nbloodshed...\n\nThe wife and the three infant children of Dr. Nihat Ilhan, a\nmajor on duty at the camp of the Cyprus Turkish Army Contingent,\nare mercilessly and dastardly shot dead while hiding in the\nbathroom of their house, by maddened Greeks who broke into their\nhome. A glaring example of Greek barbarism.\n\nLet us now listen to the relating of the said incident told by\nMr. Hasan Yusuf Gudum, an eye witness, who himself was wounded\nduring the same terrible event.\n\n\"On the night of the 24th of December, 1963 my wife Feride Hasan\nand I were paying a visit to the family of Major Dr. Nihat Ilhan.\nOur neighbours Mrs. Ayshe of Mora, her daughter Ishin and Mrs.\nAyshe's sister Novber were also with us. We were all sitting\nhaving supper. All of a sudden bullets from the Pedieos River\ndirection started to riddle the house, sounding like heavy rain.\nThinking that the dining-room where we were sitting was\ndangerous, we ran to the bathroom and toilet which we thought\nwould be safer. Altogether we were nine persons. We all hid in\nthe bathroom except my wife who took refuge in the toilet. We\nwaited in fear. Mrs. Ilhan the wife of Major Doctor, was standing\nin the bath with her three children Murat, Kutsi and Hakan in her\narms. Suddenly with a great noise we heard the front door open.\nGreeks had come in and were combing, every corner of the house\nwith their machine gun bullets. During these moments I heard\nvoices saying, in Greek, \"You want Taksim eh!\" and then bullets\nstarted flying in the bathroom. Mrs. Ilhan and her three children\nfell into the bath. They were shot. At this moment the Greeks,\nwho broke into the bathroom, emptied their guns on us again. I\nheard one of the Major's children moan, then I fainted.\n\nWhen I came to myself 2 or 3 hours later, I saw Mrs. Ilhan and\nher three children lying dead in the bath. I and the rest of the\nneighbours in the bathroom were all seriously wounded. But what\nhad happened to my wife? Then I remembered and immediately ran to\nthe toilet, where, in the doorway, I saw her body. She was\nbrutally murdered.\n\nIn the street admist the sound of shots I heard voices crying\n\"Help, help. Is there no one to save us?\" I became terrified. I\nthought that if the Greeks came again and found that I was not\ndead they would kill me. So I ran to the bedroom and hid myself\nunder the double-bed.\n\nAn our passed by. In the distance I could still hear shots. My\nmouth was dry, so I came out from under the bed and drank some\nwater. Then I put some sweets in my pocket and went back to the\nbathroom, which was exactly as I had left in an hour ago. There I\noffered sweets to Mrs. Ayshe, her daughter and Mrs. Novber who\nwere all wounded.\n\nWe waited in the bathroom until 5 o'clock in the morning. I\nthought morning would never come. We were all wounded and needed\nto be taken to hospital. Finally, as we could walk, Mrs. Novber\nand I, went out into the street hoping to find help, and walked\nas far as Koshklu Chiftlik.\n\nThere, we met some people who took us to hospital where we were\noperated on. When I regained my consciousness I said that there\nwere more wounded in the house and they went and brought Mrs.\nAyshe and her daughter.\n\nAfter staying three days in the hospital I was sent by plane to\nAnkara for further treatment. There I have had four months\ntreatment but still I cannot use my arm. On my return to Cyprus,\nGreeks arrested me at the Airport.\n\nAll I have related to you above I told the Greeks during my\ndetention. They then released me.\"\n\nON FOOT INTO CYPRUS'S DEVASTATED TURKISH QUARTER\n\nWe went tonight into the sealed-off Turkish quarter of Nicosia in\nwhich 200 to 300 people have been slaughtered in the last five\ndays.\n\nWe were the first Western reporters there, and we saw some\nterrible sights.\n\nIn the Kumsal quarter at No. 2, Irfan Bey Sokagi, we made our way\ninto a house whose floors were covered with broken glass. A\nchild's bicycle lay in a corner.\n\nIn the bathroom, looking like a group of waxworks, were three\nchildren piled on top of their murdered mother.\n\nIn a room next to it we glimpsed the body of a woman shot in the\nhead.\n\nThis, we were told, was the home of a Turkish Army major whose\nfamily had been killed by the mob in the first violence.\n\nToday was five days later, and still they lay there.\n\nRene MacCOLL and Daniel McGEACHIE, (From the \"DAILY EXPRESS\")\n\n\"...I saw in a bathroom the bodies of a mother and three infant\nchildren murdered because their father was a Turkish Officer...\"\n\nMax CLOS, LE FIGARO 25-26 January, 1964\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nThat's why zoologists refer to you as a 'fecal shield'. Colonel Semen \nM. Budienny, a subsequent Soviet military fame, said about the \nArmenian genocide of 2.5 million defenseless Turkish and Kurdish \nwomen, children and elderly people during his visit to Anatolia \nin June 1919 that\n\n\"the Armenians had become troublemakers, their Hinchakist\n and Dashnakist parties were opportunist, serving as lackeys\n of whatever power happened to be ascendent.\"\n\nIn September 16, 1920, Major General W. Thwaites, Director of\nMilitary Intelligence, wrote to Lord Hardinge, Under-Secretary\nof State for Foreign Affairs:\n\n\"...it is useless to pretend that the Armenians are satisfactory\n allies, or deserving of all the sympathy to which they claim.\"[1]\n\n[1] F.O. 331/3411/158288.\n\nIn the Special Collection at Stanford Hoover Library, donated by\nGeorgia Cutler, the letter dated Nov. 1, 1943 states that\n\n\"Prescot Hall wrote a large volume to prove that Armenians were\n not and never could be desirable citizens, that they would \n always be unscrupulous merchants.\"\n\n\nSource: Documents: Volume I (1919).\n \"Document No: 50,\" Archive No: 4/3621, Cabin No: 162, Drawer \n No: 5, File No: 2905, Section No: 433, Contents No: 6, 6-1, 6-2.\n (To 36th Division Command - Militia Commander Ismail Hakki)\n\n\"For eight days, Armenians have been forcibly obstructing people from\n leaving their homes or going from one village to the other. Day and night\n they are rounding up male inhabitants, taking them to unknown destinations,\n after which nothing further is heard of them. (Informed from statements\n of those who succeeded in escaping wounded from the massacres around\n Taskilise ruins). Women and children are being openly murdered or are\n being gathered in the Church Square and similar places. Most inhuman and\n barbarous acts have been committed against Moslems for eight days.\"\n\n\n \"Document No: 52,\" Archive No: 4/3671, Cabin No: 163, Drawer \n No: 1, File No: 2907, Section No: 440, Contents No: 6-6, 6-7.\n (To: 1st Caucasian Army Corps Command, 2nd Caucasian Army Corps\n Command, Communications Zone Inspectorate - Commander 3rd Army\n General)\n\n\"As almost all Russian units opposite our front have been withdrawn, the\n population loyal to us in regions behind the Russian positions are\n facing an ever-increasing threat and suppression as well as cruelties\n and abuses by Armenians who have decided to systematically annihilate\n the Moslem population in regions under their occupation. I have \n regularly informed the Russian Command of these atrocities and\n cruelties and I have gained the impression that the above authority\n seems to be failing in restoring order.\"\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\n'Alone'? Sorry, but the following western scholars are forced to disagree \nwith you. During the First World War and the ensuing years - 1914-1920, \nthe Armenians through a premeditated and systematic genocide, \ntried to complete its centuries-old policy of annihilation against \nthe Turks and Kurds by savagely murdering 2.5 million Muslims and \ndeporting the rest from their 1,000 year homeland.\n\nThe attempt at genocide is justly regarded as the first instance\nof Genocide in the 20th Century acted upon an entire people.\nThis event is incontrovertibly proven by historians, government\nand international political leaders, such as U.S. Ambassador Mark \nBristol, William Langer, Ambassador Layard, James Barton, Stanford \nShaw, Arthur Chester, John Dewey, Robert Dunn, Papazian, Nalbandian, \nOhanus Appressian, Jorge Blanco Villalta, General Nikolayef, General \nBolkovitinof, General Prjevalski, General Odiselidze, Meguerditche, \nKazimir, Motayef, Twerdokhlebof, General Hamelin, Rawlinson, Avetis\nAharonian, Dr. Stephan Eshnanie, Varandian, General Bronsart, Arfa,\nDr. Hamlin, Boghos Nubar, Sarkis Atamian, Katchaznouni, Rachel \nBortnick, Halide Edip, McCarthy, W. B. Allen, Paul Muratoff and many \nothers.\n\nJ. C. Hurewitz, Professor of Government Emeritus, Former Director of\nthe Middle East Institute (1971-1984), Columbia University.\n\nBernard Lewis, Cleveland E. Dodge Professor of Near Eastern History,\nPrinceton University.\n\nHalil Inalcik, University Professor of Ottoman History & Member of\nthe American Academy of Arts & Sciences, University of Chicago.\n\nPeter Golden, Professor of History, Rutgers University, Newark.\n\nStanford Shaw, Professor of History, University of California at\nLos Angeles.\n\nThomas Naff, Professor of History & Director, Middle East Research\nInstitute, University of Pennsylvania.\n\nRonald Jennings, Associate Professor of History & Asian Studies,\nUniversity of Illinois.\n\nHoward Reed, Professor of History, University of Connecticut.\n\nDankwart Rustow, Distinguished University Professor of Political\nScience, City University Graduate School, New York.\n\nJohn Woods, Associate Professor of Middle Eastern History, \nUniversity of Chicago.\n\nJohn Masson Smith, Jr., Professor of History, University of\nCalifornia at Berkeley.\n\nAlan Fisher, Professor of History, Michigan State University.\n\nAvigdor Levy, Professor of History, Brandeis University.\n\nAndreas G. E. Bodrogligetti, Professor of History, University of California\nat Los Angeles.\n\nKathleen Burrill, Associate Professor of Turkish Studies, Columbia University.\n\nRoderic Davison, Professor of History, George Washington University.\n\nWalter Denny, Professor of History, University of Massachusetts.\n\nCaesar Farah, Professor of History, University of Minnesota.\n\nTom Goodrich, Professor of History, Indiana University of Pennsylvania.\n\nTibor Halasi-Kun, Professor Emeritus of Turkish Studies, Columbia University.\n\nJustin McCarthy, Professor of History, University of Louisville.\n\nJon Mandaville, Professor of History, Portland State University (Oregon).\n\nRobert Olson, Professor of History, University of Kentucky.\n\nMadeline Zilfi, Professor of History, University of Maryland.\n\nJames Stewart-Robinson, Professor of Turkish Studies, University of Michigan.\n\n.......so the list goes on and on and on.....\n\nAs for the genocide of the Azeri people by the Armenians:\n\nSource: Channel 4 News at 19.00, Monday 2 March 1992.\n2 French journalists have seen 32 corpses of men, women and children \nin civilian clothes. Many of them shot dead from their heads as close \nas less than 1 meter.\n\nSource: BBC1 Morning news at 07.37, Tuesday 3 March 1992.\nBBC reporter was live on line and he claimed that he saw more than 100\nbodies of Azeri men, women and children as well as a baby who are shot\ndead from their heads from a very short distance.\n\nSource: BBC1 Morning news at 08:12, Tuesday 3 March 1992.\nVery disturbing picture has shown that many civilian corpses who were \npicked up from mountain. Reporter said he, cameraman and Western \nJournalists have seen more than 100 corpses, who are men, women, \nchildren, massacred by Armenians. They have been shot dead from their \nheads as close as 1 meter. Picture also has shown nearly ten bodies \n(mainly women and children) are shot dead from their heads. Azerbaijan \nclaimed that more than 1000 civilians massacred by Armenian forces.\n\nSerdar Argic", "\nOY] Henrik (?),\nOY] Your ignorance manifests itself in an awkward form of intransigence. I'm not\nOY] going to spend time to review with you the recent history of Cyprus. \n\n\tGood !! Go back to your references and read it over and over ...\n\nOY] If you are really interested, I can provide you with a number of references\nOY] on the issue. Just send me EMail for that. \n\n\tYou think I am that STUPID to ask you for REFERENCES ! NOT !\n\tI have many GREEK friends that I could ask for the INFO if I\n\tneeded. I have already read many articles and DO NOT need\n\tyour help. Boy, how generous !!\n\nOY] Relax! You're swinging fists into open air... I was *agreeing* with you,\nOY] assuming that would be one of your points that you did not state! You may \nOY] not be very much used to it, to be agreed with - that is, but take it more\nOY] easily. !:-)\n\n\tBelieve me, I am so relaxed ...\n\nhenrik] However, I hope that the Armenians WILL force a TURKISH airplane \nhenrik] to LAND for purposes of SEARCHING for ARMS similar to the one\n\n[OY] \tNo, Henrik, believe me: You don't hope that.\n\n\t IF Armenia is goint to do that, then so be it.\n \nhenrik] that happened last SUMMER. Turkey searched an AMERICAN plane\nhenrik] (carrying humanitarian aid) bound to ARMENIA.\n\nOY] Was that after or before one French plane changed its route to avoid\nOY] inspection??? ", "From: baba@Tymnet.com (Duane Hentrich)\n-BTW, I'm a WALC (white aryan lapsed catholic)\n-\n---\n-d'baba Duane M. Hentrich baba@Tymnet.Com\n-\n I would like to go on record as objecting to Mr. Hentrich calling\nhimself an Aryan. The word `Aryan' is of Sanskrit origin and occurs first\nin the Hindu scripture, the Rigveda. It seems to have been a tribal term\nbut may have had connotations of good character. Such connotations\nare quite explicit in the sayings of the Buddha who called his religion the\neightfold Aryan path. The word was borrowed by the German scholar\nMax Mueller who used it as a synonym for `indo-european', but then the\nNazis proceeded to steal it and started pretending that `aryan' is\nsynonymous with `nordic' which seems highly unlikely. The people who\noriginally called themselves aryas, the Iranians, Noprth Indians, the Afghans\nand possibly the Kurds, are none of them nordic. So the use of the word\nby Westerners, though meant with apparent good humor in this case, is\nnontheless inappropriate. The only Westerners who may have some claim\nto call themselves Aryans (by descent) are the Celts who seem to have wor-\nshipped a god called Aryaman who is mentioned in the Rigveda.\n\n If you want to check what I am saying, look at Mallory's book, ``In\nsearch of the Indo-Europeans\" or, just look at the Encyclopedia Britannica.\nThe reason this usage is offensive is that most of Ancient Indian literature\nas well as religion is directly or inderectly due to the Aryans and\nfor Westerners to butt in is really not nice, not to mention the horrible\nthings done by Germans to Jews, using a word to which the Germans have\nno clear claim.", "Referring to notes from the personal diary of Russian General L. \nOdishe Liyetze on the Turkish front, he wrote,\n\n\"On the nights 11-12 March, 1918 alone Armenian butchers \n bayoneted and axed to death 3000 Muslims in areas surrounding\n Erzincan. These barbars threw their victims into pits, most\n likely dug according to their sinister plans to extinguish \n Muslims, in groups of 80. My adjutant counted and unearthed\n 200 such pits. This is an act against our world of civilization.\"\n\nOn March 12, 1918 Lieut-colonel Griyaznof wrote (from an official\nRussian account of the Turkish genocide),\n\n\"Roads leading to villages were littered with bayoneted torsos,\n dismembered joints and carved out organs of Muslim peasants...\n alas! mainly of women and children.\"\n\nSource: Doc. Dr. Azmi Suslu, \"Russian View on the Atrocities Committed\n by the Armenians Against the Turks,\" Ankara Universitesi, Ankara,\n 1987, pp. 45-53.\n \"Document No: 77,\" Archive No: 1-2, Cabin No: 10, Drawer \n No: 4, File No: 410, Section No: 1578, Contents No: 1-12, 1-18.\n (Acting Commander of Erzurum and Deveboynu regions and Commander\n of the Second Erzurum Artillery Regiment Prisoner of War,\n Lieutenant Colonel Toverdodleyov)\n\n\"The things I have heard and seen during the two months, until the\n liberation of Erzurum by the Turks, have surpassed all the\n allegations concerning the vicious, degenerate characteristic of\n the Armenians. During the Russian occupation of Erzurum, no Armenian\n was permitted to approach the city and its environs.\n\n While the Commander of the First Army Corps, General Kaltiyin remained\n in power, troops including Armenian enlisted men, were not sent to the\n area. When the security measures were lifted, the Armenians began to \n attack Erzurum and its surroundings. Following the attacks came the\n plundering of the houses in the city and the villages and the murder\n of the owners of these houses...Plundering was widely committed by\n the soldiers. This plunder was mainly committed by Armenian soldiers\n who had remained in the rear during the war.\n\n One day, while passing through the streets on horseback, a group of\n soldiers including an Armenian soldier began to drag two old men of\n seventy years in a certain direction. The roads were covered with mud,\n and these people were dragging the two helpless Turks through the mud\n and dirt...\n\n It was understood later that all these were nothing but tricks and\n traps. The Turks who joined the gendarmarie soon changed their minds\n and withdrew. The reason was that most of the Turks who were on night\n patrol did not return, and no one knew what had happened to them. The \n Turks who had been sent outside the city for labour began to disappear\n also. Finally, the Court Martial which had been established for the\n trials of murderers and plunderers, began to liquidate itself for\n fear that they themselves would be punished. The incidents of murder\n and rape, which had decreased, began to occur more frequently.\n\n Sometime in January and February, a leading Turkish citizen Haci Bekir\n Efendi from Erzurum, was killed one night at his home. The Commander\n in Chief (Odiselidge) gave orders to find murderers within three days.\n The Commander in Chief has bitterly reminded the Armenian intellectuals\n that disobedience among the Armenian enlisted men had reached its\n highest point, that they had insulted and robbed the people and half\n of the Turks sent outside the city had not returned.\n\n ...We learnt the details this incident from the Commander-in-Chief,\n Odishelidge. They were as follows:\n\n The killings were organized by the doctors and the employers, and the\n act of killing was committed solely by the Armenian renegades...\n More than eight hundred unarmed and defenceless Turks have been\n killed in Erzincan. Large holes were dug and the defenceless \n Turks were slaughtered like animals next to the holes. Later, the\n murdered Turks were thrown into the holes. The Armenian who stood \n near the hole would say when the hole was filled with the corpses:\n 'Seventy dead bodies, well, this hole can take ten more.' Thus ten\n more Turks would be cut into pieces, thrown into the hole, and when\n the hole was full it would be covered over with soil.\n\n The Armenians responsible for the act of murdering would frequently\n fill a house with eighty Turks, and cut their heads off one by one.\n Following the Erzincan massacre, the Armenians began to withdraw\n towards Erzurum... The Armenian renegades among those who withdrew\n to Erzurum from Erzincan raided the Moslem villages on the road, and\n destroyed the entire population, together with the villages.\n\n During the transportation of the cannons, ammunition and the carriages\n that were outside the war area, certain people were hired among the \n Kurdish population to conduct the horse carriages. While the travellers\n were passing through Erzurum, the Armenians took advantage of the time\n when the Russian soldiers were in their dwellings and began to kill\n the Kurds they had hired. When the Russian soldiers heard the cries\n of the dying Kurds, they attempted to help them. However, the \n Armenians threatened the Russian soldiers by vowing that they would\n have the same fate if they intervened, and thus prevented them from\n acting. All these terrifying acts of slaughter were committed with\n hatred and loathing.\n\n Lieutenant Medivani from the Russian Army described an incident that\n he witnessed in Erzurum as follows: An Armenian had shot a Kurd. The\n Kurd fell down but did not die. The Armenian attempted to force the\n stick in his hand into the mouth of the dying Kurd. However, since\n the Kurd had firmly closed his jaws in his agony, the Armenian failed\n in his attempt. Having seen this, the Armenian ripped open the abdomen\n of the Kurd, disembowelled him, and finally killed him by stamping\n him with the iron heel of his boot.\n\n Odishelidge himself told us that all the Turks who could not escape\n from the village of Ilica were killed. Their heads had been cut off\n by axes. He also told us that he had seen thousands of murdered\n children. Lieutenant Colonel Gryaznov, who passed through the village\n of Ilica, three weeks after the massacre told us the following:\n\n There were thousands of dead bodies hacked to pieces, on the roads.\n Every Armenian who happened to pass through these roads, cursed and\n spat on the corpses. In the courtyard of a mosque which was about\n 25x30 meter square, dead bodies were piled to a height of 140 \n centimeters. Among these corpses were men and women of every age,\n children and old people. The women's bodies had obvious marks of\n rape. The genitals of many girls were filled with gun-powder.\n\n A few educated Armenian girls, who worked as telephone operators\n for the Armenian troops were called by Lieutenant Colonel Gryaznov\n to the courtyard of the mosque and he bitterly told them to be \n proud of what the Armenians had done. To the lieutenant colonel's\n disgusted amazement, the Armenian girls started to laugh and giggle,\n instead of being horrified. The lieutenant colonel had severely\n reprimanded those girls for their indecent behaviour. When he told\n the girls that the Armenians, including women, were generally more\n licentious than even the wildest animals, and that their indecent\n and shameful laughter was the most obvious evidence of their inhumanity\n and barbarity, before a scene that appalled even veteran soldiers,\n the Armenian girls finally remembered their sense of shame and\n claimed they had laughed because they were nervous.\n\n An Armenian contractor at the Alaca Communication zone command\n narrated the following incident which took place on February 20:\n\n The Armenians had nailed a Turkish women to the wall. They had cut\n out the women's heart and placed the heart on top of her head.\n The great massacre in Erzurum began on February 7... The enlisted men \n of the artillery division caught and stripped 270 people. Then they\n took these people into the bath to satisfy their lusts. 100 people\n among this group were able to save their lives as the result of\n my decisive attempts. The others, the Armenians claimed, were \n released when they learnt that I understood what was going on. \n Among those who organized this treacherous act was the envoy to the\n Armenian officers, Karagodaviev. Today, some Turks were murdered\n on the streets.\n\n On February 12, some Armenians have shot more than ten innocent\n Moslems. The Russian soldiers who attempted to save these people were\n threatened with death. Meanwhile I imprisoned an Armenian for\n murdering an innocent Turk. \n\n When an Armenian officer told an Armenian murderer that he would \n be hanged for his crime, the killer shouted furiously: 'How dare\n you hang an Armenian for killing a Turk?' In Erzurum, the \n Armenians burned down the Turkish market. On February 17, I heard\n that the entire population of Tepekoy village, situated within\n the artillery area, had been totally annihilated. On the same \n day when Antranik entered Erzurum, I reported the massacre to\n him, and asked him to track down the perpetrators of this horrible\n act. However no result was achieved.\n\n In the villages whose inhabitants had been massacred, there was a\n natural silence. On the night of 26/27 February, the Armenians deceived\n the Russians, perpetrated a massacre and escaped for fear of the \n Turkish soldiers. Later, it was understood that this massacre had\n been based upon a method organized and planned in a circular. \n The population had been herded in a certain place and then killed\n one by one. The number of murders committed on that night reached\n three thousand. It was the Armenians who bragged to about the details\n of the massacre. The Armenians fighting against the Turkish soldiers\n were so few in number and so cowardly that they could not even\n withstand the Turkish soldiers who consisted of only five hundred\n people and two cannons, for one night, and ran away. The leading\n Armenians of the community could have prevented this massacre.\n However, the Armenian intellectuals had shared the same ideas with\n the renegades in this massacre, just as in all the others. The lower\n classes within the Armenian community have always obeyed the orders\n of the leading Armenian figures and commanders. \n\n I do not like to give the impression that all Armenian intellectuals\n were accessories to these murders. No, for there were people who\n opposed the Armenians for such actions, since they understood that\n it would yield no result. However, such people were only a minority.\n Furthermore, such people were considered as traitors to the Armenian\n cause. Some have seemingly opposed the Armenian murders but have\n supported the massacres secretly. Some, on the other hand, preferred\n to remain silent. There were certain others, who, when accused by\n the Russians of infamy, would say the following: 'You are Russians.\n You can never understand the Armenian cause.' The Armenians had a\n conscience. They would commit massacres and then would flee in fear\n of the Turkish soldiers.\"\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "Accounts of Anti-Armenian Human Right Violations in Azerbaijan #011\n Prelude to Current Events in Nagorno-Karabakh\n\n +-------------------------------------------------------+\n | |\n | \"Right, we should slaughter the Armenians!\" and |\n | \"There's no need to be afraid, all of Moscow is |\n | behind us.\" I even heard that: \"All Moscow is |\n | behind us.\" Well I watched and listened in and |\n | realized that this was no joke. |\n |\t\t\t\t\t\t\t|\n +-------------------------------------------------------+\n\nDEPOSITION OF YURI VAGARSHAKOVICH MUSAELIAN\n\n Born 1953\n Line Electrician\n Sumgait Streetcar and Trolleybus Administration\n\n Resident at Building 4/21, Apartment 29\n Block 14, Narimanov Street\n Sumgait [Azerbaijan]\n\n\nI spent almost all of February doing overhaul. The 27th was a short day at\nwork, we worked until eleven or eleven-thirty and left for home. I decided\nto go for a short walk. I went to Primorsky Park. I walked past the Eternal\nFlame and saw a group of about 8 to 10 people standing there. When I had\nwalked another 15 to 20 yards I heard the screech of automobile brakes\nbehind me. I turned my head toward the sound. It was a light blue GAZ-24\nVolga. I see that the people who were standing there have gone over to the \ncar. A man and a woman get out. The man is expensively dressed, in a suit,\nand the woman has a raincoat on. She doesn't have anything on her head, and \nher hair is let down, sightly reddish hair, a heavy-set woman. They're 40 to \n45 years old. They get something out of the trunk. The people start to help\nthem. I become curious just what are they pulling out of there?\n\nWhen I got up close I heard them turn something on. I didn't see what it was, \nbut it was probably a tape recorder. They put it on the ground near the \nEternal Flame honoring the 26 Baku Commissars and formed a tight circle\naround it. I ask, \"What's going on?\" Someone tells me, \"Come listen.\" Well\nthey were Azerbaijanis, I had asked in Azerbaijani. I hear appeals: \"Brother\nMuslims, our time has come . . . \" and something else along that line. I\ndidn't understand what it was all about. I walked around the group trying to \nget a look at the owner of the tape recorder. But the circle drew in tighter. \nNew people started coming from various directions, five here, seven there. And\nthe comments started: \"Right, we should slaughter the Armenians!\" and \"There's\nno need to be afraid, all of Moscow is behind us.\" I even heard that: \"All \nMoscow is behind us.\" Well I watched and listened in and realized that this \nwas no joke. I quietly left and went home.\n\nNow before that at work I had heard that something was going on in Karabagh, \nthat there were demonstrations there. Well, people were saying all kinds of \nthings, but I didn't have any idea what was really going on.\n\nMy wife and son were at home, but my daughter was at my aunt's house in Baku. \nI didn't say anything to my wife. We sat and drank tea. Sometime around two\no'clock right behind our house suddenly there is noise, whistling, and \nshouting. I looked out the window and saw a crowd. The crowd is moving slowly,\nlike they show on TV when blacks in South Africa are striking or having a \ndemonstration and move slowly.\n\nMy wife asks what's going on out there. I say I don't know. I put on some\noutdoor clothes and went out to find out what it was all about. In the crowd\npeople are shouting \"Down with the Armenians!\" and \"Death to the Armenians!\" I\nwaited for the entire crowd to pass. At first they went down Narimanov Street \non the side with the SK club and the City Party Committee; then they turned \nand went against the traffic--it's one way there--down the Street of the 26 \nBaku Commissars toward the streetcar line. I went home and told my wife there \nwas a demonstration going on. In fact I thought that we were having the same \nkind of demonstrations that they had had in Yerevan and in Karabagh. Aside \nfrom the things they were shouting, I was surprised that there were only young\npeople in the crowd. And they were minors, under draft age.\n\nMy wife and son wanted to go upstairs to visit a friend, but I was kind of\nuneasy and said, \"No, let's stay at home instead.\" An hour went by, or maybe \nan hour and a half. Well, I wasn't keeping track of the time, I can't say\nexactly how long it was. I look and see another crowd on Narimanov, but now on\nthe side with the microdistricts, the bazaar, and the Rossiya movie theater.\n\nI put outside clothes on and went out again. There's noise, an uproar outside,\nand the crowd has grown. There are more people. And whereas the first time \nthere were individual shouts, this time they are more focused, more \naggressive. No, I think, something's wrong here, this isn't any demonstration.\nThey would run, stop, then walk quickly and make sharp dashes, and then run \nagain. I was walking along the sidewalk and they were in the street. I \nfollowed them. I was thinking I'd just watch and see. Who knew where this was \nleading? We came out on Lenin Square. At the square the SK club is on one \nside, and the City Party Committee is on the other. I went toward the square \nand heard noise and shouting, as though the whole town had turned out. There \nwas some sort of a rally going on. I go closer and hear exclamations, appeals.\nI heard both anti-Armenian and anti-Soviet appeals. \"We don't need \nperestroika, we want to go on living like we have been.\" Now what did they \nmean by \"living like we have been?\" The Azerbaijanis work like everyone else. \nBut too many people live at the expense of the government and at the expense \nof others. Speculation, theft, and cheating go on all the time. And not just \nin Azerbaijan, everywhere, in all the republics, but I've never seen it \nanywhere else like I have in Azerbaijan.\n\nNow at this rally someone says that they should go around to the Armenians' \napartments and drive them out, beat them and drive them out. True, I didn't \nhear them say \"kill them\" over the microphone, I only heard \"beat them and \ndrive them out.\" I stayed at the square a few minutes longer. First one, then\nanother are going up onto the stage, and no one tries to stop the crowd. Off\nto the side of the crowd there were small groups of three or four people, and \nI think they were MVD [Ministry of Internal Affairs] or State Security KGB.\nThere were also uniformed policemen there, but I didn't see any of them try \nto pacify the crowd. New people kept coming up onto the stage.\n\nWell I had finally decided that this could end badly: This was no\ndemonstration, and I had to protect my family.\n\nI left the Square to return home and suddenly noticed a truck. It was next\nto the City Party Committee, on Narimanov Street, it stood next to the tai-\nlor's shop there, a low truck, and it had low, wooden panels. I see that some-\nthing is being unloaded, crates of some sort. I decided to go look because\nafter all those appeals I was apprehensive and thought there might be weapons\nin there. They pulled the crates out onto the square, not toward the City \nParty Committee, but toward the SK club. And when I went right up to them I \nsaw that they were cases of vodka. There were two people handing down the \ncases from the bed of the truck, and on the ground there were many people, 15 \nto 20. They were handing them down from the truck and each case was carried \noff by two people. Two people, one case of vodka. And there was a man standing\nright next to the truck and he was handing out roundish black lumps, maybe \nabout the size of a fist, maybe a little bigger or smaller. It was anasha. \nWhen I passed next to that person, he stood with his side to me. There was \nabout a yard and a half between us, and two people were standing near him. He \nhas a package in his hand, and he's pulling out anasha and handing it out. I \nhave never smoked it myself. Once I tried it for fun, but I've seen a lot of \npeople smoke it, I've seen it many times, and I know what it is. I strolled \naround and no one asked me who I was or what I was doing there.\n\nBefore I got to the Glass Bazaar I heard more howling, more warlike shouting. \nI turned around and saw them running. Well I'll just keep on going like I am, \nI thought. When they caught up with me I saw that they were carrying flags. \nAnd I recognized the person who was carrying the flag on my side of the \nstreet. He's a young guy, 21 or 22 years old. He was carrying a red flag, \nwhich had \"Ermeni oryum\" written on it in Azerbaijani, that means \"Death to \nArmenians!\" That guy used to live off the same courtyard as us. I don't really\nknow what his name is, but I know his father very well. His father's name is\nRafik; he used to be a cook, and then became head chef. He used to have a dark\nblue Zhiguli van, then he sold it and now he has a white Zhiguli 06. His \nfamily, as I said, lived on the same courtyard as we did. Our building was on \nNarimanov Street, and theirs was on the Street of the 26 Baku Commissars; \ntheir apartment was in the far entryway, on the fifth floor, the door on the \nleft. Now Rafik's little brother lives there, and he, Rafik, I heard, got a \nnew apartment either in the forth or eighth microdistrict. In a word, his son \nwas carrying a flag that said \"Death to Armenians!\" I was surprised because \nbefore this I had gotten the impression that all of this nonsense was being \ndone not by people from Sumgait, but by Azerbaijanis from Agdam and Kafan.\n\nWell anyway I went home. My wife was upset. I told her, \"It's OK, it'll pass, \nthey're young kids, they've just gotten all whooped up.\" Naturally I didn't \nwant her to get overly upset. After a while a new surge of crowd went by. And \nthis time they were breaking glass. I could hear it breaking, but I couldn't \nsee where. Well I think, here we go, the machine's in motion. They weren't \nhanding out that vodka and anasha for nothing. I didn't see people drinking \nand smoking on the spot, but they certainly hadn't unloaded the vodka and \nhashish to put in a store window!\n\nSo the thought flashed through my head that the machine was running, no one \nwould stop them now, they weren't even trying, although, I'll say it again, \nthe police were there, I saw them. And it's not just that the police weren't \nbreaking them up, they were joking with them, they were having a good time. \nTrue, at the time I couldn't even imagine that under our government, our much-\nvaunted leadership--and I'm not afraid to say these words: so many people \ndied, So many women were abused, and how many abominations there were!--I \ncouldn't imagine that under our much-vaunted authorities, and if I were to be \nspecific, I would say under the much-touted authorities in our city of \nSumgait, I couldn't imagine that such things could take place.\n\nWhen they started breaking glass I told my wife and son: \"Let's go upstairs.\" \nWe went to our neighbors, the Grigorians, on the fourth floor. And in the \nevening, when those crowds started going past again, I went outside once more.\nI stopped at \"The Corner,\" a place called that right next to the bazaar. I \nlook and see a crowd on the run. And there, a few yards from the entrance to \nthe bazaar, are three respectable-looking men of around, say, 50 years old. \nThe crowd was running and one of the three waved with his arm and pointed \ntoward the bazaar. And then the whole crowd, as though it were one person, \nwheeled and raced toward the bazaar. And not a soul went past those three, as \nthough it were off limits! Well everything got all churned up, there was more \nnoise, and the glass was flying again.\n\nWe spent the night at the neighbors'. My apartment was on the first floor,\nthere was really no way to defend yourself there.\n\nIn the morning I went out to buy bread and to see what was happening in town. \nOn the way I saw someone hunched up, still. I never found out who it was or \nwhat happened to him. There were 10 to 15 people standing near him. I got the \nbread and on my way back, they had gathered around the person who was lying \nthere hunched up, sort of enclosing him; because of the way they were standing\nyou couldn't even see him.\n\nThat was on the morning of February 28. Everyone knows the rest.\n\n May 17, 1988\n Yerevan\n\n\t\t - - - reference - - -\n\n[1] _The Sumgait Tragedy; Pogroms against Armenians in Soviet Azerbaijan,\n Volume I, Eyewitness Accounts_, edited by Samuel Shahmuradian, forward by\n Yelena Bonner, 1990, published by Aristide D. Caratzas, NY, pages 161-164\n\n", "\n\n[h] \tThe Armenians in Nagarno-Karabagh are simply DEFENDING their RIGHTS\n[h] to keep their homeland and it is the AZERIS that are INVADING their \n[h] territorium...\n\t\n[HE]\tHomeland? First Nagarno-Karabagh was Armenians homeland today\n[HE]\tFizuli, Lacin and several villages (in Azerbadjan)\n[HE]\tare their homeland. Can't you see the\n[HE]\tthe \"Great Armenia\" dream in this?\n\nGreater Armenia would stretch from Karabakh, to the Black Sea, to the\nMediterranean, so if you use the term \"Greater Armenia\" use it with care.\n\n[HE] With facist methods like\n[HE]\tkilling, raping and bombing villages. The last move was the \n[HE]\tblast of a truck with 60 kurdish refugees, trying to\n[HE]\tescape the from Lacin, a city that was \"given\" to the Kurds\n[HE]\tby the Armenians. \n\nIt has always been up to the Azeris to end their announced winning of Karabakh \nby removing the Armenians! When the president of Azerbaijan, Elchibey, came to \npower last year, he announced he would be be \"swimming in Lake Sevan [in \nArmeniaxn] by July\". Well, he was wrong! If Elchibey is going to shell the \nArmenians of Karabakh from Aghdam, his people will pay the price! If Elchibey \nis going to shell Karabakh from Fizuli his people will pay the price! If \nElchibey thinks he can get away with bombing Armenia from the hills of \nKelbajar, his people will pay the price. \n\nIt also seems other non-Azeri minorities in Azerbaijan have understood they\nare next in line in this process of forced Azerification or deportation. Just \nlook at the situation with the Lezgians.\n\nAbout the Kurds...what Kurds! According to the Azerbaijani government, there \nare no Kurds in Azerbaijan. Can't they make up their minds? Oh I see, there \nare only Kurds when the Azeris want them to be Kurds! And anyway, this \"60 \nKurd refugee\" story, as have other stories, are simple fabrications sourced in \nBaku, modified in Ankara. Other examples of this are Armenia has no border \nwith Iran, and the ridiculous story of the \"intercepting\" of Armenian military \nconversations as appeared in the New York Times supposedly translated by \nsomebody unknown, from Armenian into Azeri Turkish, submitted by an unnamed \n\"special correspondent\" to the NY Times from Baku. Real accurate!\n\n[h] However, I hope that the Armenians WILL force a TURKISH airplane \n[h] to LAND for purposes of SEARCHING for ARMS similar to the one\n[h] that happened last SUMMER. Turkey searched an AMERICAN plane\n[h] (carrying humanitarian aid) bound to ARMENIA.\n[h]\n\nNo, Henrik, these Turkish planes should be shot down with no questions asked.\n\n[HE]\tDon't speak about things you don't know: 8 American Cargo planes\n[HE]\twere heading to Armenia. When the Turkish authorities\n[HE]\tannounced that they were going to search these cargo \n[HE]\tplanes 3 of these planes returned to it's base in Germany.\n[HE]\t5 of these planes were searched in Turkey. The content of\n[HE]\tof the other 3 planes? Not hard to guess, is it? It was sure not\n[HE]\thumanitarian aid.....\n\nYour \"facts\" in error. Shipments of all kinds that have transversed Turkey \nhave been either searched, re-routed or confiscated. Some American planes\nwere searched, others were re-routed, others were untouched. Rail shipments \nwere held up last fall and last winter from entering Armenian from Turkey\nfor the purpose of aiding in the economic collapse of Armenia. Wheat was\nconfiscated, other shipments were exchanged with \"crap\" and dirt, then\nshipped to Armenia. U.S. planes don't have to use Turkish air bases. The U.S.\nuses these bases to bomb Iraq. Anyway, U.S. planes can fly over Georgia, which\nthey have found is easier than to endure unnecessary expressions of Turkish \nchauvinism through searches of cargo which to this day have not revealed \nanything other than a paranoid Turkish military. \n\n[HE]\tSearch Turkish planes? You don't know what you are talking about.\n[HE]\tsince it's content is announced to be weapons? \n\nWell, big mouth Ozal said military weapons are being provided to Azerbaijan\nfrom Turkey, yet Demirel and others say no. No wonder you are so confused!\n\n[HE]\tTurkey's government has announced that it's giving weapons\n[HE]\tto Azerbadjan since Armenia started to attack Azerbadjan\n[HE]\tit self, not the Karabag province. So why search a plane for weapons\n[HE]\tsince it's content is announced to be weapons? \n\nYou are correct, all Turkish planes should be simply shot down! Nice, slow\nmoving air transports!\n\n", "[...]\nhenrik] Country. Turks and Azeris consistantly WANT to drag ARMENIA into the\nhenrik] KARABAKH conflict with Azerbaijan. \n\nBM] Gimme a break. CAPITAL letters, or NOT, the above is pure nonsense. It\nBM] seems to me that short sighted Armenians are escalating the hostilities\n\t\t\t^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nhenrik]\tAgain, Armenians in KARABAKH are SIMPLY defending themselves. What do\nhenrik]\twant them to do. Lay down their ARMS and let Azeris walk all over them.\n\nNews reports I've seen say otherwise both location and motives wise. \nCAPS don't change facts.\n\nBM] while hoping that Turkey will stay out. Stop and think for a moment,\nBM] will you? Armenia doesn't need anyone to drag her into the conflict, it\nBM] is a part of it. \n\nhenrik] Armenians KNEW from the begining that TURKS were FULLY engaged \nhenrik] training AZERIS militarily to fight against KARABAKHI-Armenians.\n\nSo? Should I, at this point break into caps and start talking about \nDEFENSE etc.? I don't know how 'fully engaged' Turkey is/was though.\n\nhenrik] The KARABAKHI-ARMENIANS who have lived in their HOMELAND for 3000 \nhenrik] years (CUT OFF FROM ARMENIA and GIVEN TO AZERIS BY STALIN) are the \nhenrik] ones DIRECTLY involved in the CONFLICT. They are defending \nhenrik] themselves against AZERI AGGRESSION. \n\nBM] Huh? You didn't expect Azeri's to be friendly to forces fighting with them\nBM] within their borders? \n\nhenrik] Well, history is SAD. Remember, those are relocated Azeris into \nhenrik] the Armenian LAND of KARABAKH by the STALIN regime.\n\nSo I hear. This justifies bloodshed N years after the fact?\n\nhenrik] At last, I hope that the U.S. insists that Turkey stay out of the \nhenrik] KARABAKH crisis so that the repeat of the CYPRUS invasion WILL NEVER \nhenrik] OCCUR again.\n\nBM] You're not playing with a full deck, are you? Where would Turkey invade?\n\nhenrik] It is not up to me to speculate but I am sure Turkey would have stepped\nhenrik] into Armenia if SHE could.\n\nWhy would Turkey do that? Do you not realize that this is a local clash\nthat Turkey never wished to see happen? Turkey has other plans for region,\nlike economic revival, co-operation etc. Good stuff in other words, I'd\nbe happy to bicker with Armenians over trade barriers and such on USENET\nrather than 'who killed whom in what way' which I detest doing and wouldn't \ndo. \n\nBM] Are you throwing the Cyprus buzzword around with s.c.g. in the header\nBM] in hopes that the Greek netters will jump the gun? \n\nhenrik]\t Absolutely NOT ! I am merely trying to emphasize that in many\nhenrik]\t cases, HISTORY repeats itself. \n\nEven if one buys into your implicit premise, the sane thing to do would\nbe to try not to provoke Turkey as was done in '74. If there'd been\na democratic government instead of a bunch of idiots in Athens at the\ntime, everybody would have stayed home with their families. [I have no\nwish to go into the Cyprus quarrel, but I suspect what I've said is not\nonly accurate but also palatable to all parties involved]\n\nBM] Yes indeed Turkey has the military prowess to intervene, what she wishes \nBM] she had, however, is the diplomatic power to stop the hostilities and bring\nBM] the parties to the negotiating table. That's hard to do when Armenians \nBM] are attacking Azeri towns.\n\nhenrik]\t So, let me understand in plain WORDS what you are saying; Turkey\nhenrik]\t wants a PEACEFUL END to this CONFLICT. NOT !!\n\nSo what do you think we want? War, death and destruction? \n\nhenrik]\t I will believe it when I see it.\n\nNo, if you allow yourself to believe it you just might see it.\n\nhenrik] Now, as far as attacking, what do you do when you see a GUN pointing\nhenrik]to your HEAD ? Do you sit there and WATCH or DEFEND yoursef(fat chance)?\n\t\nThis kind of childish rhetoric doesn't help anthing.\n\nhenrik] Do you remember what Azeris did to the Armenians in BAKU ? All the\nhenrik] BARBERIAN ACTS especially against MOTHERS and their CHILDREN. I mean\nhenrik] BURNING people ALIVE !\n\nNow, some Azeri will come out and give a description of similar stuff\nperpetrated by Armenians. One should re-hash stuff like this often to\nkeep the hatred alive, right?\n\nBM] Armenian leaders are lacking the statesmanship to recognize the \nBM]futility of armed conflict and convince their nation that a compromise that \nBM] leads to stability is much better than a military faits accomplis that's \nBM] going to cause incessant skirmishes. \n\nhenrik]\t Armenians in KARABAKH want PEACE and their own republic. They are \nhenrik]\t NOT asking much. They simply want to get back what was TAKEN AWAY \nhenrik]\t from them and GIVEN to AZERIS by STALIN. \n\nWell they obviously aren't getting anywhere with their current methods\nof asking (not very peaceful I'd say).\n\nBM] Think of 10 or 20 years down the line -- both of the newly independent \nBM] countries need to develop economically and neither one is going to wipe \nBM] the other out. These people will be neighbors, would it not be better \nBM] to keep the bad blood between them minimal?\n\nhenrik]\t Don't get me WRONG. I also want PEACEFUL solution to the\nhenrik]\t conflict. But until Azeris realize that, the Armenians in\nhenrik]\t KARABAKH will defend themselves against aggresion.\n\nI don't know if you want a solution or just want to exchange slogans.\nPeace isn't what's happening right now, furthermore what's happening\nright now isn't condusive to peace. You can spend days and nights \nraving about how 'right' the Armenian position is and I'm sure\nthere'll be others who'd be happy to talk to you by arguing the other\nside. If entrenched positions lead to war, and if people want peace\nthan they should sit down and talk about a compromise. Armenia isn't\nstrong enough to exercise the 'we think we're right, and we have the \nbombs, so we'll do whatever we want, so there...' style of foreign \nrelations. Yes you can type Stalin in caps, and give one sided\natrocity stories etc. but for peace you need to be willing to talk to \nthe other side. You personally can choose not to do that of course,\nthis being just USENET. The people in power shouldn't be so childish.\n\n\nBM] If you belong to the Armenian diaspora, keep in mind that what strikes\nBM] your fancy on the map is costing the local Armenians dearly in terms of \nBM] their blood and future. \n\nhenrik]\t Again, you are taking different TURNS. Armenia HAS no intension\nhenrik]\t to GRAB any LAND from Azerbaijan. The Armenians in KARABAKH\nhenrik]\t are simply defending themselves UNTIL a solution is SET.\n\nAzeri's would disagree with you on this, and the maps I've seen support\nwhat they'd be saying. It doesn't seem likely that a solution will be\nreached in this manner. \n\nBM] It's easy to be comfortable abroad and propagandize \nBM] craziness to have your feelings about Turks tickled. The Armenians\nBM] in Armenia and N-K will be there, with the same people you seem to hate \nBM] as their neighbors, for maybe 3000 years more. The sooner there's peace in\nBM] the region the better it is for them and everyone else. I'd push for\nBM] compromise if I were you instead of hitting the caps-lock and spreading\nBM] inflammatory half-truths.\n\nhenrik] It is NOT up to me to decide the PEACE initiative. I am absolutely\nhenrik] for it. \n\nIt didn't look it when I read your posting. It would seem to me \nthat if you can spew mis-information about a boogey-man, you can also\ntalk about how one might avoid the nastiness. Fair?\n\nhenrik] But, in the meantime, if you do not take care of yourself,\nhenrik] you will be WIPED out. Such as the case in the era of 1915-20 of\nhenrik] The Armenian Massacres.\n\nYou don't realize I can say the same thing about 'The Turkish Massacres.'\nYes, boys and girls, let's always talk about how bad and nasty things were.\nLet's do that so we're overwhelmed by anger, and let's do that so our\nkids will also be hateful. Sounds crazy doesn't it? Don't do it then.", "\n\nNobody ever exposed your crimes like that before? What was your personal \nrole in the murder of Orhan Gunduz and Kemal Arikan, again? How many more\nMuslims will be slaughtered by 'SDPA.ORG' as publicly declared and filed\nwith legal authorities? Please spell it out for us.\n\n\n \"...that more people have to die...\" \n\n SDPA <91@urartu.UUCP>\n\n \"Yes, I stated this and stand by it.\"\n\n SDPA <255@urartu.UUCP>\n\n\n \tJanuary 28, 1982 - Los Angeles\n\tKemal Arikan is slaughtered by two Armenians while driving to work. \n\n \tMarch 22, 1982 - Cambridge, Massachusetts\n\tPrelude to grisly murder. A gift and import shop belonging to\n\tOrhan Gunduz is blown up. Gunduz receives an ultimatum: Either \n he gives up his honorary position or he will be \"executed\". He \n refuses. \"Responsibility\" is claimed by JCAG and SDPA.\n\n \tMay 4, 1982 - Cambridge, Massachusetts\n\tOrhan Gunduz, the Turkish honorary consul in Boston, would not bow \n\tto the Armenian terrorist ultimatum that he give up his title of \n\t\"honorary consul\". Now he is attacked and murdered in cold blood.\n\tPresident Reagan orders an all-out manhunt-to no avail. An eye-\n\twitness who gave a description of the murderer is shot down. He \n\tsurvives... but falls silent. One of the most revolting \"triumphs\" in \n\tthe senseless, mindless history of Armenian terrorism. Such a murder \n\tbrings absolutely nothing - except an ego boost for the murderer \n\twithin the Armenian terrorist underworld, which is already wallowing \n\tin self-satisfaction.\n \nWere you involved in the murder of Sarik Ariyak? \n\n \tDecember 17, 1980 - Sydney\n\tTwo Nazi Armenians massacre Sarik Ariyak and his bodyguard, Engin \n Sever. JCAG and SDPA claim responsibility.\n\nIt is public knowledge that the founder of the Marxist-Leninist terrorist \norganization, the ASALA (an integral part of ASALA/SDPA/ARF), Hagop\nHagopian, began his notorious career as a member of the terrorist \ngroup which perpetrated the massacre of the Israeli athletes at the\nMunich Olympics in 1972. And the 'Armenian Foundation' stole from the \nchildren of Turkiye to fund the criminal activities of the ASALA/SDPA/ARF\nterrorists in their cold-blooded murder of defenceless Turkish and\nKurdish people. \n\nTHE ARMENIAN FOUNDATION PROVIDED 30 BILLION TL TO ASALA\n\n 01/09/92, MILLIYET-- The Armenian Foundation based in\nIstanbul is found to have provided 30 billion Turkish Lira ($6\nmillion) to the Armenian terrorist organization ASALA which have\nmurdered several Turkish diplomats abroad... \n\nExperts on international terrorism assert that the Armenian terrorists\nuse proceeds from drug trafficking (and from the Armenian Foundation)\nto fund their deadly enterprises. The deadliest of terrorist assassins,\nCarlos, proclaimed on Spanish television that his organization had\nentered into a working relationship with Armenian terrorists and they\nare using drug trafficking to raise money 'to continue' to slaughter\ninnocent people. Now, what is your personal and organizational role \nin this scheme?\n\nRecent reports which have been confirmed by the U.S. Administration, \nindicate that Armenian terrorist organizations are collaborating with \nthose who are responsible for the bombing of the United States Marine \nbarracks in Beirut. You won't be able to get away with your crimes \nforever; the justice is long overdue.\n\nAs for the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people between \n1914 and 1920:\n\nSource: Documents: Volume I (1919).\n \"Document No: 42,\" Archive No: 1-2, Cabin No: 110, Drawer \n No: 1(4), File No: 373, Section No: 1484(1032), Contents No: 9, 9-1.\n (To the Office of Acting Supreme Commander - Acting Assistant\n Section Director Major Ali Sukru)\n\n\"It is sufficient to mention just some of the terrible and shameful crimes\n committed only in Erzurum to get an idea about the Armenian atrocities\n in the villages...\n\n I would also like to mention with disgust and abominable sight, a stain\n on humanity, that I encountered at the west of Hasankale while my regiment\n was proceeding into this town. There was a young Turkish women, apparently\n once a very beautiful one, lying dead on one side of the road. A huge\n stick had been inserted into her vagina. We took the corpses and left it\n at a spot that was invisible from the road...\"\n \nSerdar Argic", " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nYour ignorance is obvious from your posting. \n\n1) Cyprus was an INDEPENDENT country with Turkish/Greek inhabitants (NOT a \n Greek island like your ignorant posting claims)\n\n2) The name should be Cyprus (in English)\n\nnext time read and learn before you post. ", "Ok. My Aykut., what about the busload of Greek turists that was\ntorched, and all the the people in the buis died. Happened oh, about 5\nyears ago in Instanbul.\n\tWhat about the Greeks in the islands of Imbros and tenedos, they\nare not allowed to have churches any more, instead momama turkey has\nturned the church into a warehouse, I got a picture too.\n\tWhat about the pontian Greeks of Trapezounta and Sampsounta,\nwhat you now call Trabzon and Sampson, they spoke a 2 thousand year alod\nlanguage, are there any left that still speek or were they Islamicised?\n\tBefore we start another flamefest , and before you start quoting\nArgic all over again, or was it somebody else?, please think. I know it\nis a hard thing to do for somebody not equipped , but try nevertheless.\n\tIf Turks in Greece were so badly mistreated how come they\nelected two,m not one but two, representatives in the Greek government?\nHow come they have free(absolutely free) hospitalization and education?\nDo the Turks in Turkey have so much?If they do then you have every right\nto shout, untill then you can also move to Greece and enjoy those\nprivileges. But I forget , for you do study in a foreign university,\nsome poor shod is tiling the earth with his own sweat.\n\tBTW is Aziz Nessin still writing poetry? I'd like to read some\nof his new stuff. Also who was the guy that wrote \"On the mountains of\nTayros.\" ? please respond kindly to the last two questions, I am\ninterested in finding more books from these two people.\n\t", "\nOY] Henrik (?),\nOY] Your ignorance manifests itself in an awkward form of intransigence. I'm not\nOY] going to spend time to review with you the recent history of Cyprus. \n\n\nI wish the fascist x-Soviet Armenian government would do that. Well,\nif you prefer to imagine that the American, European, Jewish and Armenian \nscholars were trying to mislead 'Arromdians', be my guest.\n\n\nSource: Stanford J. Shaw, on Armenian collaboration with invading Russian\narmies in 1914, \"History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey (Volume\nII: Reform, Revolution & Republic: The Rise of Modern Turkey, 1808-1975).\"\n(London, Cambridge University Press 1977). pp. 315-316.\n\n\"In April 1915 Dashnaks from Russian Armenia organized a revolt in the city \n of Van, whose 33,789 Armenians comprised 42.3 percent of the population, \n closest to an Armenian majority of any city in the Empire...Leaving Erivan \n on April 28, 1915, Armenian volunteers reached Van on May 14 and organized \n and carried out a general slaughter of the local Muslim population during \n the next two days while the small Ottoman garrison had to retreat to the\n southern side of the lake.\"\n\n\nSource: \"World Alive, A Personal Story\" by Robert Dunn. Crown Publishers, \nInc., New York (1952). \n(Memoirs of an American officer who witnessed the Armenian genocide of 2.5 \n million Muslim people)\n\np. 361 (seventh paragraph) and p. 362 (first paragraph).\n\n 'The most are inside houses. Come you and look.'\n 'No, dammit! My stomach isn't-'\n 'One is a Turkish officer in uniform. Him you must see.'\n \"We were under those trees by the mosque, in an open space....\n 'I don't believe you,\" I said, but followed to a nail-studded door. The \n man pushed it ajar, then spurred away, leaving me to check on the corpse. \n I thought I should, this charge was so constant, so gritted my teeth and \n went inside.\n\n The place was cool but reeked of sodden ashes, and was dark at first, for \n its stone walls had only window slits. Rags strewed the mud floor around an \n iron tripod over embers that vented their smoke through roof beams black \n with soot. All looked bare and empty, but in an inner room flies buzzed. As \n the door swung shut behind me I saw they came from a man's body lying face \n up, naked but for its grimy turban. He was about fifty years old by what \n was left of his face - a rifle butt had bashed an eye. The one left slanted, \n as with Tartars rather than with Turks. Any uniform once on him was gone, so \n I'd no proof which he was, and quickly went out, gagging at the mess of his \n slashed genitals.\"\n\np. 363 (first paragraph). \n\n 'How many people lived there?'\n 'Oh, about eight hundred.' He yawned.\n 'Did you see any Turk officers?'\n 'No, sir. I was in at dawn. All were Tartar civilians in mufti.'\n\n \"The lieutenant dozed off, then I, but in the small hours a voice woke me - \n Dro's. He stood in the starlight bawling out an officer. Anyone keelhauled\n so long and furiously I'd never heard. Then abruptly Dro broke into \n laughter, quick and simple as child's. Both were a cover for his sense\n of guilt, I thought, or hoped. For somehow, despite my boast of irreligion,\n Christian massacring 'infidels' was more horrible than the reverse would\n have been.\n\n From daybreak on, Armenian villagers poured in from miles around.....\n The women plundered happily, chattering like ravens as they picked over\n the carcass of Djul. They hauled out every hovel's chattels, the last \n scrap of food or cloth, and staggered away, packing pots, saddlebags, \n looms, even spinning-wheels.\n\n 'Thank you for a lot, Dro,' I said to him back in camp. 'But now I must \n leave.'...We shook hands, the captain said 'A bientot, mon camarade.' And \n for hours the old Molokan scout and I plodded north across parching plains. \n Like Lot's wife I looked back once to see smoke bathing all, doubtless in \n a sack of other Moslem villages up to the line of snow that was Iran.'\"\n\np. 354.\n\n\"At morning tea, Dro and his officers spread out a map of this whole\n high region called the Karabakh. Deep in tactics, they spoke Russian,\n but I got their contempt for Allied 'neutral' zones and their distrust\n of promises made by tribal chiefs. A campaign shaped; more raids on\n Moslem villages.\"\n\np. 358.\n\n\"It will be three hours to take,\" Dro told me. We'd close in on three\n sides.\n\"The men on foot will not shoot, but use only the bayonets,\" Merrimanov\nsaid, jabbing a rifle in dumbshow.\n\"That is for morale,\" Dro put in. \"We must keep the Moslems in terror.\"\n\"Soldiers or civilians?\" I asked.\n\"There is no difference,\" said Dro. \"All are armed, in uniform or not.\"\n\"But the women and children?\"\n\"Will fly with the others as best they may.\"\n\np. 360.\n\n\"The ridges circled a wide expanse, its floors still. Hundreds of feet \n down, the fog held, solid as cotton flock. 'Djul lies under that,' said \n Dro, pointing. 'Our men also attack from the other sides.'\n\n Then, 'Whee-ee!' - his whistle lined up all at the rock edge. Bayonets\n clicked upon carbines. Over plunged Archo, his black haunches rippling;\n then followed the staff, the horde - nose to tail, bellies taking the\n spur. Armenia in action seemed more like a pageant than war, even though \n I heard our Utica brass roar.\n\n As I watched from the height, it took ages for Djul to show clear. A tsing\n of machine-gun fire took over from the thumping batteries; cattle lowed,\n dogs barked, invisible, while I ate a hunk of cheese and drank from a snow\n puddle. Mist at last folded upward as men shouted, at first heard faintly.\n The came a shrill wailing.\n\n Now among the cloud-streaks rose darker wisps - smoke. Red glimmered about\n house walls of stone or wattle, into dry weeds on roofs. A mosque stood in\n clump of trees, thick and green. Through crooked alleys on fire, horsemen\n were galloping after figures both mounted and on foot.\n\n 'Tartarski!' shouted the gunner by me. Others pantomimed them in escape\n over the rocks, while one twisted a bronze shell-nose, loaded, and yanked\n breech-cord, firing again and again. Shots wasted, I thought, when by\n afternoon I looked in vain for fallen branch or body. But these shots and\n the white bursts of shrapnel in the gullies drowned the women's cries.\n\n At length all shooting petered out. I got on my horse and rode down toward\n Djul. It burned still but little flame showed now. The way was steep and \n tough, through dense scrub. Finally on flatter ground I came out suddenly,\n through alders, on smoldering houses. Across trampled wheat my brothers-in-\n arms were leading off animals, several calves and a lamb.\"\n\np. 361 (fourth paragraph).\n\n\"Corpses came next, the first a pretty child with straight black hair, \n large eyes. She looked about twelve years old. She lay in some stubble \n where meal lay scattered from the sack she'd been toting. The bayonet \n had gone through her back, I judged, for blood around was scant. Between \n the breasts one clot, too small for a bullet wound, crusted her homespun \n dress.\n\n The next was a boy of ten or less, in rawhide jacket and knee-pants. He \n lay face down in the path by several huts. One arm reached out to the \n pewter bowl he'd carried, now upset upon its dough. Steel had jabbed \n just below his neck, into the spine. \n\n There were grownups, too, I saw as I led the sorrel around. Djul was \n empty of the living till I looked up to see beside me Dro's German-speaking \n colonel. He said all Tartars who had not escaped were dead.\"\n\np. 358.\n\n \"...more stories of Armenian murdering Turks when the czarist troops fled\n north. My hosts told me of their duty here: to keep tabs on brigands, \n Turkish troop shifts, hidden arms, spies - Christian, Red or Tartar -\n coming in from Transcaucasus. Then they spoke of the hell that would \n break loose if Versailles were to put, as threatened, the six 'Armenian'\n vilayets of Turkey under the control of Erevan...\n\n An Armenia without Armenians! Turks under Christian rule? His lips\n smacked in irony under the droopy red moustache. That's bloodshed - just\n Smyrna over again on a bigger scale.\"\n\n\nSource: \"U.S. Library of Congress\": 'Bristol Papers' - General \n Correspondence Container #34.\n\n \"While the Dashnaks were in power they did everything in the world to keep the\n pot boiling by attacking Kurds, Turks and Tartars; by committing outrages\n against the Moslems; by massacring the Moslems; and robbing and destroying\n their homes;....During the last two years the Armenians in Russian Caucasus\n have shown no ability to govern themselves and especially no ability to \n govern or handle other races under their power.\"\n\n\nSource: K. Gurun, \"The Armenian File,\" (London, Nicosia, Istanbul, 1985).\n\n\"Many Muslim villages have been destroyed by the soldiers of Armenian troops\n armed with cannons and machine guns before the eyes of our troops and the\n people.....According to documented information, 28 Muslim villages have\n been destroyed...young Muslim women have been taken to Kars and Gumru,\n hundreds of women and children who were able to flee their villages were\n beaten and killed in the mountains...\"\n\nSource: W. E. D. Allen and Paul Muratoff, \"Caucasian Battlefields,\" \n Cambridge University Press, 1953, p. 481. \n\n\"As the Armenians found support among the Reds (who regarded the Tartars\n as a counter-revolutionary elements) the fighting soon became a massacre\n of the Tartar population.\" \n\n\nSource: General Bronsart wrote as follows in an article in the July 24, \n 1921 issue of the newspaper \"Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung:\"\n\n\"Since all the Moslems capable of bearing arms were in the Turkish Army,\n it was easy to organize a terrible massacre by the Armenians against\n defenseless people, because the Armenians were not only attacking the\n sides and rear of the Eastern Army paralyzed at the front by the \n Russians, but were attacking the Moslem folk in the region as well.\"\n\nSource: Quoted by General Hamelin in a letter to the High Commissioner,\n February 2, 1919, in the official history, \"Les Armees Francaises \n au Levant,\" vol. 1, p. 122.\n\n \"They [Armenians] burned and destroyed many Turkish villages as punitive\n measures in their advance and practically all Turkish villages in their\n retreat from Marash.\"\n\nSource: John Dewey, \"The Turkish Tragedy\", The New Republic, Volume 40, \n November 12, 1928, pp. 268-269.\n\n \"that they [Armenians] boasted of having raised an army of one hundred \n and fifty thousand men to fight a civil war, and that they burned at \n least a hundred Turkish villages and exterminated their population.\"\n\nNeed I go on?\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nStill yelling at the telephone and the lawn mower? People will think\nyou're just some looney howling in the wires. Now any comment?\n \n\nSource: Documents: Volume I (1919).\n \"Document No: 76,\" Archive No: 1/2, Cabin No: 109, Drawer \n No: 3, File No: 346, Section No: 427(1385), Contents No: 3, 52-53.\n (To Lt. Colonel Seyfi, General Headquarters, Second Section, \n Istanbul - Dr. Stephan Eshnanie)\n\n'Neues Wiener Tagblatt' - Vienna, 'Pester Lloyd' 'Local Anzliger' - Berlin,\n'Algemeen Handelsblat' - Amsterdam, 'Vakit' - Istanbul.\n\n\"I have been closely following for two weeks the withdrawal of Russians and\n Armenians from Turkish territories through Armenia. Although two months\n have elapsed since the clearing of the territories of Armenian gangs, I\n have been observing the evidence of the cruelties of the Armenians at \n almost every step. All the villages from Trabzon to Erzincan and from\n Erzincan to Erzurum are destroyed. Corpses of Turks brutally and cruelly\n slain are everywhere. According to accounts by those who were able to\n save their lives by escaping to mountains, the first horrible and fearful\n events begun when the Russian forces evacuated the places which were then\n taken over by Armenian gangs. The Russians usually treated the people \n well, but the people feared the intervention of the Armenians. Once these\n places had been taken over by the Armenians, however, the massacres begun.\n They clearly announced their intention of clearing what they called the\n Armenian and Kurdish land from the Turks and thus, solve the nationality\n problem. Today I had the opportunity to meet Austrian and German soldiers\n who had escaped from Russian prison camps and come from Kars and\n Alexander Paul (Gumru-Leninakan)...Russian officers tried to save the \n Turks and there were clashes between Russian officers and Armenian gangs. \n I am now in Erzurum, and what I see is terrible. Almost the whole city is \n destroyed. The smell of the corpses still fills the air. Although there are \n speculations that Armenian gangs murdered Austrian and German prisoners as \n well, I could not get the supporting evidence in this regard, but there is \n proof of murdering of Turkish prisoners of war.\"\n\n Dr. Stephan Eshnanie\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nhenrik] The Armenians in Nagarno-Karabagh are simply DEFENDING their \nhenrik] RIGHTS to keep their homeland and it is the AZERIS that are \nhenrik] INVADING their homeland.\n\n\nHE] Homeland? First Nagarno-Karabagh was Armenians homeland today\nHE] Fizuli, Lacin and several villages (in Azerbadjan)\nHE] are their homeland. Can't you see the\nHE] the \"Great Armenia\" dream in this? With facist methods like\nHE] killing, raping and bombing villages. The last move was the\nHE] blast of a truck with 60 kurdish refugees, trying to\nHE] escape the from Lacin, a city that was \"given\" to the Kurds\nHE] by the Armenians.\n\nNagorno-Karabakh is in Azerbaijan not Armenia. Armenians have lived in Nagorno-\nKarabakh ever since there were Armenians. Armenians used to live in the areas\nbetween Armenia and Nagorno-Karabakh and this area is being used to invade \nNagorno- Karabakh. Armenians are defending themselves. If Azeris are dying\nbecause of a policy of attacking Armenians, then something is wrong with this \npolicy.\n\nIf I recall correctly, it was Stalin who caused all this problem with land\nin the first place, not the Armenians.\n\nhenrik] However, I hope that the Armenians WILL force a TURKISH airplane\nhenrik] to LAND for purposes of SEARCHING for ARMS similar to the one\nhenrik] that happened last SUMMER. Turkey searched an AMERICAN plane\nhenrik] (carrying humanitarian aid) bound to ARMENIA.\n\nHE] Don't speak about things you don't know: 8 U.S. Cargo planes\nHE] were heading to Armenia. When the Turkish authorities\nHE] announced that they were going to search these cargo\nHE] planes 3 of these planes returned to it's base in Germany.\nHE] 5 of these planes were searched in Turkey. The content of\nHE] of the other 3 planes? Not hard to guess, is it? It was sure not\nHE] humanitarian aid.....\n\nWhat story are you talking about? Planes from the U.S. have been sending\naid into Armenian for two years. I would not like to guess about what were in\nthe 3 planes in your story, I would like to find out.\n\n\nHE] Search Turkish planes? You don't know what you are talking about.\nHE] Turkey's government has announced that it's giving weapons\nHE] to Azerbadjan since Armenia started to attack Azerbadjan\nHE] it self, not the Karabag province. So why search a plane for weapons\nHE] since it's content is announced to be weapons?", "\n\nThe theory is that the hollering kills the spirit of the criminal/Nazi \nArmenians of the ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism and Revisionism Triangle. \nNow, try dealing with the rest of what I wrote.\n\nWhat is more, the activities of the Armenian Government seem to have been\nefforts aimed at eradicating a race (the Turks) or aimed at carrying out a\none-sided feud, instead of being a struggle for liberation. From the outset,\nthe efforts of the Armenian revolutionaries within the Ottoman borders took\nthe form of terrorist and destructive actions aimed at mass murder, cruelty\nand genocide, so that no other interpretation of them is possible. Armenian\nactivities started during the reign of Abdulhamid II as individual acts of\nterror, and then developed into assassinations and surprise attacks. The element\nof brute force in these activities increased steadily, culminating in mass\nrebellions and widespread fighting during the First World War. Furthermore,\nwhen the Ottoman army withdrew from Eastern Anatolia after the 1915 Sarikamis\ndefeat, Armenian revolutionaries initiated a series of cruelties in this area.\nAlthough the Russians occupied Eastern Anatolia as an enemy, nevertheless they\nwere constrained by the rules of war. However, when they returned to their\ncountry in 1917 after the Revolution, Armenian revolutionaries were unchecked\nin this area for about a year until the Ottoman forces returned to Erzurum\nin 1918. During this period, Armenian revolutionaries executed massacres on\nthe local people which is recorded in historical documents.[1]\n\nFor example, let us look at a report dated 21 March 1918 which the Commander\nof the Third Army submitted when he entered Erzurum and Erzincan: \n\n \"They were completely and systematically destroyed and burned down \n by Armenians, even the trees were cut down, and they are like a \n building entirely consumed by fire in every sense of the word.\" \n\nAs for the people who had been living in Erzurum and Erzincan:\n\n\"Those who were capable of fighting were taken away at the very beginning\n with the excuse of forced labor in road construction, they were taken\n in the direction of Sarikamis and annihilated. When the Russian army\n withdrew, a part of the remaining people was destroyed in Armenian\n massacres and cruelties: they were thrown into wells, they were locked\n in houses and burned down, they were killed with bayonets and swords, in places\n selected as butchering spots, their bellies were torn open, their lungs\n were pulled out, and girls and women were hanged by their hair after\n being subjected to every conceivable abominable act. A very small part \n of the people who were spared these abominations far worse than the\n cruelty of the inquisition resembled living dead and were suffering\n from temporary insanity because of the dire poverty they had lived\n in and because of the frightful experiences they had been subjected to.\n Including women and children, such persons discovered so far do not\n exceed one thousand five hundred in Erzincan and thirty thousand in\n Erzurum. All the fields in Erzincan and Erzurum are untilled, everything\n that the people had has been taken away from them, and we found them\n in a destitute situation. At the present time, the people are subsisting\n on some food they obtained, impelled by starvation, from Russian storages\n left behind after their occupation of this area.\"[2]\n \nForeign observers who witnessed the events, including Russian Officers\nwho did not desert their lines, submitted detailed reports proving the\ngenocide to Ottoman commanders who received them as prisoners of war.\nWhat is most important is that they stated in their reports 'the \nmassacres did not happen by chance but were planned.'[3]\n\nAt the end of the war, the German author Dr. Weiss, his Austrian colleague\nDr. Stein and his Turkish colleague Mr. Ahmet Vefik visited Trabzon, Kars,\nErzurum and Batum between April 17th and May 20th 1918 to record the\ncruelties. Their writings not only show the scope of Armenian activities,\nbut also reveal their goal and true nature.[4]\n\n[1] (The Ottoman State, the Ministry of War), \"Islam Ahalinin Ducar Olduklari\n Mezalim Hakkinda Vesaike Mustenid Malumat,\" (Istanbul, 1918). The French\n version: \"Documents Relatifs aux Atrocites Commises par les Armeniens sur\n la Population Musulmane,\" (Istanbul, 1919). In the Latin script: H. K.\n Turkozu, ed., \"Osmanli ve Sovyet Belgeleriyle Ermeni Mezalimi,\" (Ankara,\n 1982). In addition: Z. Basar, ed., \"Ermenilerden Gorduklerimiz,\" (Ankara,\n 1974) and, edited by the same author, \"Ermeniler Hakkinda Makaleler -\n Derlemeler,\" (Ankara, 1978). \"Askeri Tarih Belgeleri ...,\" Vol. 32, 83\n (December 1983), document numbered 1881.\n[2] \"Askeri Tarih Belgeleri ....,\" Vol. 31, 81 (December 1982), document\n numbered 1869.\n[3] From Twerdo-Khlebof's report dated 29 April 1918; quoted in Ermeniler ...,\n Vol. 2, p. 275.\n[4] A. R. (Altinay), \"Iki Komite - Iki Kital,\" (Istanbul, 1919), and, \"Kafkas\n Yollarinda Hatiralar ve Tahassusler\" (Istanbul, 1919).\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nI sure hope so. Because, the unspeakable crimes of the Armenians must \nbe righted. Armenian invaders burned and sacked the fatherland of \nUrartus, massacred and exterminated its population and presented to \nthe world all those left from the Urartus, as the Armenian civilization.\n\nAll reliable Western historians describe how Armenians ruthlessly\nexterminated 2.5 million Muslim women, children and elderly people of \nEastern Anatolia and how they collaborated with the enemies of the \nOttoman Empire between 1914-1920.\n\nIt is unfortunately a truth that Armenians are known as collaborators\nof the Nazis during World War II and that, even today, criminal/Nazi\nmembers of the ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism Triangle preach and instigate\nracism, hatred, violence and terrorism among peoples. \n\nAnd x-Soviet Armenia continues its anti-Turkish policy in the following \nways:\n\n1. x-Soviet Armenia denies the historical fact of the Turkish Genocide\nin order to shift international public opinion away from its political\nresponsibility.\n\n2. x-Soviet Armenia, employing ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism and Revisionism \nTriangle and criminal/Nazi Armenians, attempts to call into question the \nveracity of the Turkish Genocide.\n\n3. x-Soviet Armenia has also implemented state-sponsored terrorism through\nthe ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism and Revisionism Triangle in an attempt to \nsilence the Turkish people's vehement demands and protests.\n\n4. Using all its human, financial, and governmental resources, x-Soviet\nArmenia and its tools in the United States attempt to silence through\nterrorism, bribery and other subversive methods, non-Turkish supporters\nof the Turkish cause, be they political, governmental and humanitarian.\n\nUsing all the aforementioned methods, the x-Soviet Armenian government \nis attempting to neutralize the international diplomatic community from\nmaking the Turkish Case a contemporary issue.\n\nYet despite the efforts of the x-Soviet Armenian government and its terrorist\nand revisionist organizations, in the last decades, thanks to the struggle \nof those whose closest ones were systematically exterminated by the Armenians,\nthe international wall of silence on this issue has begun to collapse, and \nconsequently a number of governments and organizations have become \nsupportive of the recognition of the Turkish Genocide.\n\nSerdar Argic", "04/16/93 1045 ARMENIA SAYS IT COULD SHOOT DOWN TURKISH PLANES\n\nBy David Ljunggren\n\nMOSCOW, April 16, Reuter - Armenia accused Turkey on Friday of flying weapons\nx and troops across Armenian airspace to Azerbaijan and strongly hinted it\nmight try to shoot the planes down, local journalists in Yerevan said.\n\nSeparately, Itar-Tass news agency said Armenian forces had halted their latest\noffensive which has swallowed up one-tenth of Azerbaijan and sent tensions in\nthe Transcaucasian region soaring.\n\nThe journalists in the Armenian capital quoted Armen Duliyan, head of the\nArmenian defence ministry press centre, as saying Ankara had been sending \nplanes up to 15 times a day to Azerbaijan with arms and troops.\n\nIt looks as though the Armenian leadership will have to warn Turkey about\nthe impermissibility of such actions,\" the journalists quoted Duliyan as \nsaying.\n\n\"If such steps are pursued in the future we will have recourse to appropriate\nmeasures. We have all the necessary means, including modern anti-aircraft\nunits.\"\n\nTurkey, which shares a border with Armenia, has supported Azerbaijan in the\nconflict over the mainly Armenian-populated Nagorno-Karabakh region in which\nmore than 2,500 people have been killed since fighting erupted in 1988.\n\nThe Turkish foreign ministry said on Friday it had so far sent one plane to\nAzerbaijan containing humanitarian aid.\n\nA Turkish foreign ministry spokesman on Thursday would not comment directly\non a report by Hurriyet newspaper that a first consignment of rockets, rocket\nlaunchers, ammunition and light weapons had arrived in Azerbaijan from Turkey.\n\nDuliyan said Turkey had been sending up to 30 trucks a day carrying troops\nand arms to the bordering Azeri autonomous territory of Nakhichevan, from where\nthey were flown across Armenian airspace to the Azeri capital Baku.\n\n\"All the responsibility for possible consequences will be borne by the\ncountry which is affording military assistance over our airspace,\" he said.\n\nArmenia denies any formal role in the conflict, saying that the troops \ninvolved in the fighting are from the enclave itself.\n\nTass said the Karabakh forces decided on Friday to suspend their offensive\nalong the entire Armenian-Azerbaijani front.\n\n\"The Karabakh authorities are reportedly ready to give independent\ninspectors a chance to see for themselves on the spot that the (enclave's)\nleadership is striving to achieve a ceasefire,\" the agency said.\n\nArmenian President Levon Ter-Petrosyan called for a two-stage ceasefire in\nKarabakh when he arrived in the Belarus capital Minsk on Friday for a summit of\nCommonwealth leaders.\n\n\"The first stage of the settlement should involve a ceasefire and securing the\nprotection of the Karabakh population,\" Tass quoted him as saying.\n \nAt least 10 ceasefires have been brokered in the conflict but all have\ncollapsed.\n\n\"The second stage should involve discussing and finding a solution to the\nlegal issues: that is, a clarification of the status of Nagorno-Karabakh,\" he\nsaid. The republic declared full independence last year but the move has not \nbeen recognised by any other country.\n\nArmenia insists that a separate Karabakh delegation should take part in future\npeace talks, something Azerbaijan rejects.\n\nLocal news agencies in Baku said on Friday that Interior Minister Iskender\nGamidov, a fiery nationalist and hardliner in the territorial dispute with\nArmenia, had resigned.\n\nTuran news agency said he quit on Thursday and had cleared his office.\nKhabar-Servis agency said he would be replaced by the military commandant of\nBaku, police Major-General Abdullah Allakhverdiyev. There was no official\nconfirmation.\n\n", "\nDid you miss my post on this topic with the quote from The Indonesian\nHandbook and Fred Rice's comments about temporary marriages? If so, \nI will be glad to repost them. Will you accept that it just may be \na practice among some Muslims, if I do? Or will you continue to claim\nthat we are all lying and that it is \"not practised at all amongst Muslims\".\n\nI don't think F. Karner has to tell everyone anything. Least of all that\nhe is lying.", "\nYou shouldn't think many Turks read Mutlu/Argic stuff.\nThey are in my kill file, likewise any other fanatic.\n \n\nWell, Panos, Mr. Tamamidis?, the way you put it it is only the Turks\nwho bear the responsibility of the things happening today. That is hard to\nbelieve for somebody trying to be objective.\nWhen it comes to conflicts like our countries having you cannot\nblame one side only, there always are bad guys on both sides.\nWhat were you doing on Anatolia after the WW1 anyway?\nDo you think it was your right to be there?\nI am not saying that conflicts started with that. It is only\nnot one side being the aggressive and the ither always suffering.\nIt is sad that we (both) still are not trying to compromise.\nI remember the action of the Turkish government by removing the\nvisa requirement for greeks to come to Turkey. I thought it\nwas a positive attempt to make the relations better.\n\nThe Greeks I mentioned who wouldn't talk to me are educated\npeople. They have never met me but they know! I am bad person\nbecause I am from Turkey. Politics is not my business, and it is\nnot the business of most of the Turks. When it comes to individuals \nwhy the hatred? So that makes me think that there is some kind of\nbrainwashing going on in Greece. After all why would an educated person \ntreat every person from a nation the same way? can you tell me about your \nhistory books and things you learn about Greek-Turkish\nencounters during your schooling. \ntake it easy! \n\n--\nTankut Atan\ntankut@iastate.edu", "wrote in response to article <30975@galaxy.ucr.edu>, raffi@watnxt08.ucr.edu \n\n[IC] There are some Armenians here, in the USA.\n[IC] In fact, there are some areas where Armenians are majority.\n[IC] Suppose, a large group of people of one of such area decides,\n[IC] that the US \"government is not representing their interests, and vote for\n[IC] seperation\" from the USA.\n\nThe Armenians you refer to have chosen to come to the United States lawfully \nand peacefully. However, if Armenians invade the United States and force\nAmericans to either flee or become Armenians, it will not succeed. Similarly,\nthe Armenians of Karabakh are being forced by Azerbaijan to either become \nAzeris or leave, and it also will not succeed, as has been demonstrated. \n\nKarabakh, irrespective of its geographic position situated technically within\nthe Stalin-prepared borders of Azerbaijan, has been long oppressed and \neventually was invaded in 1991 by Azeri OMON and Soviet forces, resulting in \nthe northern third of this Armenian area being depopulated of Armenians. The \nArmenians have been fighting back ever since. \n\nClearly, you feel it rather ridiculous for Armenians, of let's say Glendale, \nCalifornia, to engage in an independence movement for a free and independent\nGlendale. Similarly, the Azerbaijanis are engaging in a losing attempt at\nclaiming sovereignty over the land and people of Karabakh, who have lived\ncontinuously in Karabakh a thousand years before the first Central Asian \ninvaders ever stepped foot in the Caucasus. \n\n[IC] Should they get it? \n[IC] And should the UN enforce their will?\n[IC] And is it a simple, beautiful concept, indeed?\n\nYour analogy has broken down because you have switched positions of the victim\nand invader. A better analogy would be the direct parallel between Armenians \nof Karabakh and Native Americans. Now, if you wish, we can discuss the tenets \nof might versus right and the policies of settler nations!\n\n", "ERGINEL) asked:\n\n[EE] No, no flaming here. Just a simple question.\n\n...with a simple answer!\n\n[EE] As far as I know most of the Armenians belong to the Gregorian Orthodox\n[EE] faith and such was the case in nineteenth century Ottoman Empire. It is\n[EE] also known that some Armenian communities were converted into Catholicism\n[EE] and Protestantism by the Western European missionaries in this period. \n\nThe vast majority of Armenians in eastern Anatolia were Gregorian or Armenian\nApostolic. There was, however, a higher percentage of non-Gregorian Armenians \nin Cilicia, closer to the Mediterranean, in Adana, Marash, Aintab, etc. \n\n[EE] Another known fact is that almost half of the Armenians living in Anatolia\n[EE] did not speak any Armenian, but used Turkish in their everyday lives.\n\nThis is not true. While it was forbidden for Armenians to speak Armenian in\ncertain areas of Cilician Armenia, most all Armenians spoke Armenian. In fact,\nTurks who interacted with Armenians also spoke Armenian! For sure, most all\nArmenians, especially men, also knew Turkish in order to function in larger \nsociety.\n\n[EE] My question is, given so many separations in the Armenian community, what\n[EE] was the common denominator of the Armenian people that allowed Armenian\n[EE] nationalism to emerge in the nineteenth century? As I stated, religion\n[EE] was not uniform (unlike the Greeks) and many Armenians couldn't even speak\n[EE] Armenian. I would like to know what factors brought the Armenians in the\n[EE] Ottoman Empire together and led to the formation of an Armenian \n[EE] consciousness.\n\nThe Armenians in Turkey were persecuted because they were Armenian, regardless\nof the specific branch of Christianity they professed. The resultant Armenian\nnationalism was in direct reaction to this persecution. Even at the later \nstages of WWI, and after the genocide, many Armenians who were converted to \nIslam were also exterminated because they continued as Armenian Moslems. This \npractice continued well into the 1920s by Ataturk in parallel with the policy \nof clearing out pockets of steadfast Islamic fundamentalism. Many of these\nconverted Armenians, ironically, in order to stay alive, were staunch Moslems. \n\n[EE] Any information will be appreciated.\n\nYou answered your own question! The common thread throughout your inquiry\nwas the word Armenian!\n\n[EE] Regards,\n\n", "\n\nIf a 'dog's prayers were answered, bones would rain from the sky.\nDid you know that the word 'Karabag' itself is a 'Turkish' name? \nBefore 1827, before the Russians and their 'zavalli kole' Armenians, \ndrove all the Turks/Muslims out, it was a Turkish majority town. Well,\nanyway, it is not surprising that Armenians also collaborated with the \nNazis.\n\n \"Wholly opportunistic the Dashnaktzoutun have been variously\n pro-Nazi, pro-Russia, pro-Soviet Armenia, pro-Arab, pro-Jewish,\n as well as anti-Jewish, anti-Zionist, anti-Communist, and \n anti-Soviet - whichever was expedient.\"[1]\n\n[1] John Roy Carlson (Arthur Derounian), 'Cairo to Damascus,' \n Alfred A. Knopf, New York, 1951, p. 438.\n \nAs a dear friend put it, the Tzeghagrons (Armenian Racial Patriots) \nwas the youth organization of the Dashnaktzoutun. It was based in\nBoston (where ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism Triangle is located) but \nhad followers in Armenian colonies all over the world. Literally\nTzeghagron means 'to make a religion of one's race.' The architect\nof the Armenian Racial Patriots was Garegin Nezhdeh, a Nazi Armenian\nwho became a key leader of collaboration with Hitler in World War II.\nIn 1933, he had been invited to the United States by the Central\nCommittee of the Dashnaktzoutun to inspire and organize the \nAmerican-Armenian youth. Nezhdeh succeeded in unifying many local\nArmenian youth groups in the Tzeghagrons. Starting with 20\nchapters in the initial year, the Tzeghagrons grew to 60 chapters\nand became the largest and most powerful Nazi Armenian organization.\nNezhdeh also provided the Tzeghagrons with a philosophy:\n\n \"The Racial Religious beliefs in his racial blood as a deity.\n Race above everything and before everything. Race comes first.\"[1]\n\n[1] Quoted in John Roy Carlson (real name Arthur Derounian), \"The\n Armenian Displaced Persons,\" in 'Armenian Affairs,' Winter,\n 1949-50, p. 19, footnote.\n\n\nNow wait, there is more.\n\nTHE GRUESOME extent of February's killings of Azeris by Armenians\nin the town of Hojali is at last emerging in Azerbaijan - about\n600 men, women and children dead in the worst outrage of the\nfour-year war over Nagorny Karabakh.\n\nThe figure is drawn from Azeri investigators, Hojali officials\nand casualty lists published in the Baku press. Diplomats and aid\nworkers say the death toll is in line with their own estimates.\n\nThe 25 February attack on Hojali by Armenian forces was one of\nthe last moves in their four-year campaign to take full control\nof Nagorny Karabakh, the subject of a new round of negotiations\nin Rome on Monday. The bloodshed was something between a fighting\nretreat and a massacre, but investigators say that most of the\ndead were civilians. The awful number of people killed was first\nsuppressed by the fearful former Communist government in Baku.\nLater it was blurred by Armenian denials and grief-stricken\nAzerbaijan's wild and contradictory allegations of up to 2,000\ndead.\n\nThe State Prosecuter, Aydin Rasulov, the cheif investigator of a\n15-man team looking into what Azerbaijan calls the \"Hojali\nDisaster\", said his figure of 600 people dead was a minimum on\npreliminary findings. A similar estimate was given by Elman\nMemmedov, the mayor of Hojali. An even higher one was printed in\nthe Baku newspaper Ordu in May - 479 dead people named and more\nthan 200 bodies reported unidentified. This figure of nearly 700\ndead is quoted as official by Leila Yunusova, the new spokeswoman\nof the Azeri Ministry of Defence.\n\nFranCois Zen Ruffinen, head of delegation of the International\nRed Cross in Baku, said the Muslim imam of the nearby city of\nAgdam had reported a figure of 580 bodies received at his mosque\nfrom Hojali, most of them civilians. \"We did not count the\nbodies. But the figure seems reasonable. It is no fantasy,\" Mr\nZen Ruffinen said. \"We have some idea since we gave the body bags\nand products to wash the dead.\"\n\nMr Rasulov endeavours to give an unemotional estimate of the\nnumber of dead in the massacre. \"Don't get worked up. It will\ntake several months to get a final figure,\" the 43-year-old\nlawyer said at his small office.\n\nMr Rasulov knows about these things. It took him two years to\nreach a firm conclusion that 131 people were killed and 714\nwounded when Soviet troops and tanks crushed a nationalist\nuprising in Baku in January 1990.\n\nThose nationalists, the Popular Front, finally came to power\nthree weeks ago and are applying pressure to find out exactly\nwhat happened when Hojali, an Azeri town which lies about 70\nmiles from the border with Armenia, fell to the Armenians.\n\nOfficially, 184 people have so far been certified as dead, being\nthe number of people that could be medically examined by the\nrepublic's forensic department. \"This is just a small percentage\nof the dead,\" said Rafiq Youssifov, the republic's chief forensic\nscientist. \"They were the only bodies brought to us. Remember the\nchaos and the fact that we are Muslims and have to wash and bury\nour dead within 24 hours.\"\n\nOf these 184 people, 51 were women, and 13 were children under 14\nyears old. Gunshots killed 151 people, shrapnel killed 20 and\naxes or blunt instruments killed 10. Exposure in the highland\nsnows killed the last three. Thirty-three people showed signs of\ndeliberate mutilation, including ears, noses, breasts or penises\ncut off and eyes gouged out, according to Professor Youssifov's\nreport. Those 184 bodies examined were less than a third of those\nbelieved to have been killed, Mr Rasulov said.\n\nFiles from Mr Rasulov's investigative commission are still\ndisorganised - lists of 44 Azeri militiamen are dead here, six\npolicemen there, and in handwriting of a mosque attendant, the\nnames of 111 corpses brought to be washed in just one day. The\nmost heartbreaking account from 850 witnesses interviewed so far\ncomes from Towfiq Manafov, an Azeri investigator who took a\nhelicopter flight over the escape route from Hojali on 27\nFebruary.\n\n\"There were too many bodies of dead and wounded on the ground to\ncount properly: 470-500 in Hojali, 650-700 people by the stream\nand the road and 85-100 visible around Nakhchivanik village,\" Mr\nManafov wrote in a statement countersigned by the helicopter\npilot.\n\n\"People waved up to us for help. We saw three dead children and\none two-year-old alive by one dead woman. The live one was\npulling at her arm for the mother to get up. We tried to land but\nArmenians started a barrage against our helicopter and we had to\nreturn.\"\n\nThere has been no consolidation of the lists and figures in\ncirculation because of the political upheavals of the last few\nmonths and the fact that nobody knows exactly who was in Hojali\nat the time - many inhabitants were displaced from other villages\ntaken over by Armenian forces.\n\nTHE INDEPENDENT, London, 12/6/'92\n\nSerdar Argic", "\nMaybe he will. Maybe he is working for the secret Turkish service. You never \nknow. \n\n\nNo it is still called \"you are full of shit\"; even in the US.:)\n\n\nWell, now you have. Don't worry Turks do not turn to terrorist actions like\nArmenians have so you can be sure that you will not be killed. However, I \ndo not know about the torture part... Timucin sounds like a tough guy so \nwatch out. \n\n \nIf you are going to translate, you have to do it consistently. If you \nselectively translate things to serve your ugly purpose, people get \npisssssssssed offfffff. \n\nIn Ottoman times messengers were usually killed by cutting their heads off and\nsending it back to their country. But Ottoman empire no longer exists :(. \n(darn!) ", "\n[KT] HELLO, shit face david, I see that you are still around. I dont want to \n[KT] see your shitty writings posted here man. I told you.\n\nSo ... close your eyes and walk away.\n\n[KT] You are getting itchy as your fucking country.\n\nI have been defending the history of the Armenians on this network for over\nsix years. I have seen the likes of you enter his forum, make fools of\nthemselves, and \"simply vanish\" as did the Armenians in 1915! \n\n[KT] Hey , and dont give me that freedom of speach bullshit once more.\n\nRealize sir, you are not in Turkey! In the USA freedom of speech is not\nconsidered \"bullshit\". It is because of such freedoms that Turks like yourself\nare allowed to attend Georgia Tech.\n\n[KT] Because your freedom has ended when you started writing things about my \n[KT] people. And try to translate this \"ebenin donu butti kafa David.\".\n\nWhat's the problem? If you can't stand the heat -- leave! Your government\nmurdered 1.5 million Armenians and you would have me stay quiet to suit your\npersonal fancy or some fascist fetish regarding the greatness of Turkey! Well, \nthat is simply too bad. \n\n[KT] BYE, ANACIM HADE.\n[KT] TIMUCIN\n\nPis bogaz!\n", "\n\n\n Well, if you put things into historical perspective, the Turks\n moved into an area, which was inhabited by Greeks. This is how the history\n between the two nations started some centuries ago. Since then, it has been\n a continuous battle between the two nations. From my perspective I can't see\n why I should say that Greeks have been responsible for what has happened \n between the two nations. Of course, it would not be reasonable to argue that\n the hostility should drag till we kick the Turks out of this area. This isn't\n going to happen, so the best would be to improve the relations between the two\n countries. A golden oportunity exists with Cyprus. If things can't work\n there, there isn't any possible way that could work between our nations.\n\n\n I always avoid to discuss such things. I consider it a waist of my time.\n Besides, as I said, I do not want to open a new flame.\n\n\n I thought it was a smart move to receive more money from Greek tourists.\n I bet that this week there should be about 200,000 tourists from Greece\n in Turkey. Each one will leave at least $1,000 so go and figure what this\n means to your economy. If you had kept the visa requirement, how many\n Greeks would bother to visit Turkey?\n\n\n Come on. Do not extrapolate from your limited personal experience. You err\n if you think you'd get a reasonable conclusion.\n", "\nArmenia is involved in fighting with Azarbaijan. It is Armenian\nsoldiers from mainland Armenia that are shelling towns in Azarbaijan.\nYou might wish to read more about whether or not it is Azeri aggression\nonly in that region. It seems to me that the Armenians are better\norganized, have more success militarily and shell Azeri towns\nrepeatedly. \n\nI don't wish to get into the Cyprus discussion. Turkey had the right to\nintervene, and it did. Perhaps the intervention was not supposed to\nlast for so long, but the constant refusal of the Greek governments both\non the island and in Greece to deal with reality is also to be blamed\nfor the ongoing standoff in the region. \n\nLastly, why is there not a soc.culture.armenia? I vote yes for it.\nAfter all, it is now free. ", "\n\nI know it doesn't make sense, but since when is 'Napoleon' about\nsense, anyway? Further striking bigoted and racist attitude of \ncertain Greeks still exists in our day. Most Greeks insist even \ntoday, that the 537 year-old capital of the Ottoman Empire should \nbe called not by its rightful name of Istanbul, but by its half \na millennium-old moniker 'Cons*(whatever).'\n\nEveryone knows that New York City was once called 'New Amsterdam'\nbut Dutch people do not persist on calling it that today. The name \nof Stalingrad too is long gone, replaced by Volgagrad. China's\nPeking traded its name for Beiging long ago. Ciudad Trujillo\nof the Dominican Republic is now Santa Domingo. Zimbabve's\nold colonial capital Salisburry became Harrare. These changes\nhave all been accepted officially by everyone in the world.\n\nBut, Greeks are still determined on calling the Turkish Istanbul \nby the name of 'Cons*.'\n\nHow can one explain this total intransigence? What makes Greeks\nso different from other mortals? 18-year-old questionable\ndemocracy? Why don't they seem to reconcile with the fact,\nfor instance, that Istanbul changed hands 537 years ago in\n1453 AD, and that this predates the discovery of the New \nWorld, by 39 years. The declaration of U.S. independence\nin 1776 will come 284 years later.\n\nShouldn't then, half a millennium be considered enough time for \n'Cons*' to be called a Turkish city? Where is the logic in the \nGreek reasoning, if there is any? How long can one sit on the \nlaurels of an ancient civilization? Ancient Greece does not exist, \nany more than any other 16 civilizations that existed on the soil \nof Anatolia.\n\nThese undereducated 'wieneramus' live with an illusion. It \nis the same mentality which allows them to rationalize\nthat Cyprus is a Greek Island. No history book shows\nthat it ever was. It belonged to the Ottoman Turks 'lock,\nstock and barrel' for a period of well over 300 years.\n\nIn fact, prior to the Turks' acquisition of it, following\nbloody naval battles with the Venetians in 1570 AD, the\nisland of Cyprus belonged, invariably, to several nations:\n\nThe Assyrians, the Sumerians, the Phoenicians, the Egyptians,\nthe Ottoman Turks, of course in that order, owned it as \ntheir territory. But, it has never been the possession\nof the government of Greece - not even for one day -\nin the history of the world. Moreover, Cyprus is\nlocated 1500 miles from the Greek mainland, but only \n40 miles from Turkiye's southern coastline.\n\nSaddam Hussein claims that Kuwait was once Iraqi\nterritory and the Greek Cypriot government and \nthe terrorist Greek governments think that Cyprus\nalso was once part of the Greek hegemony.\n\nThose 'Arromdians' involved in this grandiose hallucination\nshould wake up from their sweet daydreams and confront \nreality. Again, wishful thinking is unproductive, only \nfacts count.\n\nAs for Selanik,\n\n <>\n\n <>\n\n[47] Robert Mantran, 'La structure sociale de la communaute juive de\n Salonqiue a la fin du dix-neuvieme siecle', RH no.534 (1980), 391-92;\n Nehama VII, 762; Joseph Nehama (Salonica) to AIU (Paris) no.2868/2,\n 12 May 1903 (AIU Archives I-C-43); and no.2775, 10 January 1900 (AIU\n Archives I-C-41), describing daily battles between Jewish and Greek\n children in the streets of Salonica. Benghiat, Director of Ecole Moise\n Allatini, Salonica, to AIU (Paris), no.7784, 1 December 1909 (AIU\n Archives I-C-48), describing Greek attacks on Jews, boycotts of Jewish\n shops and manufacturers, and Greek press campaigns leading to blood libel\n attacks. Cohen, Ecole Secondaire Moise Allatini, Salonica, to AIU (Paris),\n no.7745/4, 4 December 1912 (AIU Archives I-C-49) describes a week of terror\n that followed the Greek army occupation of Salonica in 1912, with the\n soldiers pillaging the Jewish quarters and destroying Jewish synagogues,\n accompanied by what he described as an 'explosion of hatred' by local\n Greek population against local Jews and Muslims. Mizrahi, President of the\n AIU at Salonica, reported to the AIU (Paris), no.2704/3, 25 July 1913\n (AIU Archives I-C-51) that 'It was not only the irregulars (Comitadjis)\n that massacred, pillaged and burned. The Army soldiers, the Chief of\n Police, and the high civil officials also took an active part in the\n horrors...', Moise Tovi (Salonica) to AIU (Paris) no.3027 (20 August 1913)\n (AIU Archives I-C-51) describes the Greek pillage of the Jewish quarter\n during the night of 18-19 August 1913.\n\n(AIU = Alliance Israelite Universelle, Paris.)\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nCelebrating in joy the cold-blooded genocide of 2.5 million Muslim \npeople by your criminal grandparents between 1914 and 1920? Did you \nthink that you could cover up the genocide perpetrated by your fascist\ngrandparents against my grandparents in 1914? You've never heard of \n'April 23rd'? \n\n\n \"In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.\n It is in our power to tear away the veil of illusion that some of us\n create for ourselves. It certainly is possible to severe the artificial\n life-support system of an imagined 'ethnic purity' that some of us\n falsely trust as the only structure that can support their heart beats \n in this alien land.\"\n (Sahak Melkonian - 1920 - \"Preserving the Armenian purity\") \n\n\nDuring the First World War and the ensuing years - 1914-1920, \nthe Armenian Dictatorship through a premeditated and systematic \ngenocide, tried to complete its centuries-old policy of \nannihilation against the Turks and Kurds by savagely murdering \n2.5 million Muslims and deporting the rest from their 1,000 year \nhomeland.\n\nThe attempt at genocide is justly regarded as the first instance\nof Genocide in the 20th Century acted upon an entire people.\nThis event is incontrovertibly proven by historians, government\nand international political leaders, such as U.S. Ambassador Mark \nBristol, William Langer, Ambassador Layard, James Barton, Stanford \nShaw, Arthur Chester, John Dewey, Robert Dunn, Papazian, Nalbandian, \nOhanus Appressian, Jorge Blanco Villalta, General Nikolayef, General \nBolkovitinof, General Prjevalski, General Odiselidze, Meguerditche, \nKazimir, Motayef, Twerdokhlebof, General Hamelin, Rawlinson, Avetis\nAharonian, Dr. Stephan Eshnanie, Varandian, General Bronsart, Arfa,\nDr. Hamlin, Boghos Nubar, Sarkis Atamian, Katchaznouni, Rachel \nBortnick, Halide Edip, McCarthy, W. B. Allen, Paul Muratoff and many \nothers.\n\nJ. C. Hurewitz, Professor of Government Emeritus, Former Director of\nthe Middle East Institute (1971-1984), Columbia University.\n\nBernard Lewis, Cleveland E. Dodge Professor of Near Eastern History,\nPrinceton University.\n\nHalil Inalcik, University Professor of Ottoman History & Member of\nthe American Academy of Arts & Sciences, University of Chicago.\n\nPeter Golden, Professor of History, Rutgers University, Newark.\n\nStanford Shaw, Professor of History, University of California at\nLos Angeles.\n\nThomas Naff, Professor of History & Director, Middle East Research\nInstitute, University of Pennsylvania.\n\nRonald Jennings, Associate Professor of History & Asian Studies,\nUniversity of Illinois.\n\nHoward Reed, Professor of History, University of Connecticut.\n\nDankwart Rustow, Distinguished University Professor of Political\nScience, City University Graduate School, New York.\n\nJohn Woods, Associate Professor of Middle Eastern History, \nUniversity of Chicago.\n\nJohn Masson Smith, Jr., Professor of History, University of\nCalifornia at Berkeley.\n\nAlan Fisher, Professor of History, Michigan State University.\n\nAvigdor Levy, Professor of History, Brandeis University.\n\nAndreas G. E. Bodrogligetti, Professor of History, University of California\nat Los Angeles.\n\nKathleen Burrill, Associate Professor of Turkish Studies, Columbia University.\n\nRoderic Davison, Professor of History, George Washington University.\n\nWalter Denny, Professor of History, University of Massachusetts.\n\nCaesar Farah, Professor of History, University of Minnesota.\n\nTom Goodrich, Professor of History, Indiana University of Pennsylvania.\n\nTibor Halasi-Kun, Professor Emeritus of Turkish Studies, Columbia University.\n\nJustin McCarthy, Professor of History, University of Louisville.\n\nJon Mandaville, Professor of History, Portland State University (Oregon).\n\nRobert Olson, Professor of History, University of Kentucky.\n\nMadeline Zilfi, Professor of History, University of Maryland.\n\nJames Stewart-Robinson, Professor of Turkish Studies, University of Michigan.\n\n.......so the list goes on and on and on.....\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n.....\n.....\n.....\n\n..... \n\nOne case of Slovenian paranoia.\n\nOnce upon a time a tried to walk over the (famous) Marathon field, not far away \nfrom Athens. I could not do that mostly becouse the field is now a huge \nantenna farm. Probably a Greek COMINT installation, would you agree? \n-- \nBorut B. Lavrencic, D.Sc. | X.400 :C=si;A=mail;P=ac;O=ijs;S=lavrencic\nJ. Stefan Institute | Internet:Borut.B.Lavrencic@ijs.si\nUniversity of Ljubljana, | Phone :+ 386 1 159 199\nSI-61111 Ljubljana, Slovenia |\t PGP Public Key available on request", "\n\n\nI was convinced that no one could have a more warped sense of the\nworld. They were 'our' grandparents who were cold-bloodedly exterminated\nby the Armenians between 1914 and 1920, not yours. And you can always\nparticipate in 'The Turkish Genocide Day' along with millions of Turkish \nand Kurdish people on April 23, 1993 in the United States and Canada. \n\n...On this occasion, we once again reiterate the unquestioned \njustice of the restitution of Turkish and Kurdish rights and...\n\n- We demand that the x-Soviet Armenian Government admit its \nresponsibility for the Turkish and Kurdish Genocide, render \nreparations to the Muslim people, and return the land to its \nrightful owners. The recognition of the Genocide has become an \nissue which cannot be delayed further, and it is imperative that \nartificial obstacles created for political manipulations be removed.\n\n- We believe the time has come to demand from the the United States \nthat it formally recognizes the Turkish and Kurdish Genocide, adopts \nthe principles of our demands and refuses to accede to Armenian pressures \nto the contrary.\n\n- As taxpayers of the United States, we express our vehement \nprotest to the present U.S. Government policy of continued \ncoddling, protection and unqualified assistance towards x-Soviet\nArmenia.\n\n- We also demand that the United States return to the policies \nadvocated by U.S. Ambassador Bristol and other enlightened statesmen,\nwho have undertaken a just, human and benevolent attitude towards \nthe rights of the Muslim people and the just resolution of their Case.\n\n- Our territorial demands are strictly aimed at x-Soviet Armenia's.\n\n\nAnd in article <2BAC262D.25249@news.service.uci.edu>, you have blatantly\nlied:\n\n\nWell, still anxiously awaiting...\n\nCIS Commander Pulls Troops Out of Karabagh :\n\n\"Elif Kaban, a Reuter correspondent in Agdam, reported that after a battle \n on Wednesday, Azeris were burying scores of people who died when Armenians \n overran the town of Khojaly, the second-biggest Azeri settlement in the \n area. 'The world is turning its back on what's happening here. We are dying \n and you are just watching,' one mourner shouted at a group of journalists.\"\n Helen Womack\n The Independent, 2/29/92\n\nArmenian Soldiers Massacre Hundreds of Fleeing Families:\n\n\"The attackers killed most of the soldiers and volunteers defending the \n women and children. They then turned their guns on the terrified refugees. \n The few survivors later described what happened: 'That's when the real \n slaughter began,' said Azer Hajiev, one of the three soldiers to survive. \n 'The Armenians just shot and shot. And they came in and started carving \n up people with their bayonets and knives.' A 45-year-old man who had been \n up on us and people were falling all around. My wife fell, then my child.\"\n Thomas Goltz\n Sunday Times, 3/1/92\n\nArmenian Raid Leaves Azeris Dead or Fleeing:\n\n\"...about 1,000 of Khojaly's 10,000 people were killed in Tuesdays attack. \n Azerbaijani television showed truckloads of corpses being evacuated from \n the Khocaly area.\"\n Brian Killen (Reuters)\n The Washington Times, 3/2/92\n\nAtrocity Reports Horrify Azerbaijan :\n\n\"Azeri officials who returned from the seen to this town about nine miles \n away brought back three dead children, the backs of their heads blown off...\n 'Women and children had been scalped,' said Assad Faradzev, an aide to \n Karabagh's Azeri governor. Azeri television showed pictures of one \n truckload of bodies brought to the Azeri town of Agdam, some with their \n faces apparently scratched with knives or their eyes gouged out.\"\n Brian Killen (Reuters)\n The Washington Times, 3/3/92\n\nMassacre By Armenians Being Reported:\n\n\"The Republic of Armenia reiterated denials that its militants had \n killed 1,000 [Azeris]... But dozens of bodies scattered over the \n area lent credence to Azerbaijani reports of a massacre.\"\n (Reuters)\n The New York Times, 3/3/92\n\nKillings Rife in Nagorno-Karabagh, Moldova:\n\n\"Journalists in the area reported seeing dozens of corpses, including some \n of the civilians, and Azerbaijani officials said Armenians began shooting \n at them when they sought to recover the bodies.\"\n Fred Hiatt\n The Washington Post, 3/3/92\n\nBodies Mark Site of Karabagh Massacre:\n\n\"A local truce was enforced to allow the Azerbaijanis to collect their dead \n and any refugees still hiding in the hills and forest. All are the bodies \n of ordinary people, dressed in the poor, ugly clorhing of workers. Of the 31 \n we saw only one policeman and two apparent national volunteers were wearing \n uniform. All the rest were civilians, including eight women and three small\n children. Two groups, apparently families, had fallen together, the children \n cradled in the women's arms. Several of them, including one small girl, had \n terrible head injuries: only her face was left. Survivors have told how they \n saw Armenians shooting them point blank as they lay on the ground.\"\n Anatol Lieven\n The Times (London), 3/3/92\n\nKarabagh Survivors Flee to Mountains:\n\n\"Geyush Gassanov, the deputy mayor of Khocaly, said that Armenian troops \n surrounded the town after 7 pm on Tuesday. They were accompanied by six \n or seven light tanks and armoured carriers. 'We thought they would just \n bombard the village, as they had in the past, and then retreat. But they \n attacked, and our defence force couldn't do anything against their tanks.' \n Other survivors described how they had been fired on repeatedly on their \n way through the mountains to safety. 'For two days we crawled most of the \n way to avoid gunfire,' Sukru Aslanov said. His daughter was killed in the \n battle for Khodjaly, and his brother and son died on the road.\"\n Anatol Lieven\n The Times (London), 3/3/92\n\nCorpses Litter Hills in Karabagh:\n\n\"As we swooped low over the snow covered hills of Nagorno-Karabagh we saw \n the scattered corpses. Apparently, the refugees had been shot down as \n they ran...Suddenly there was a thump...[our Azerbaijani helicopter] had \n been fired on from an Armenian anti-aircraft post...\"\n Anatol Lieven\n The Times (London), 3/4/92\n\n\"Police in western Azerbaijan said they had recovered the bodies of \n 120 Azerbaijanis killed as they fled an Armenian assault in the \n disputed enclave of Nagorno-Karabagh and said they were blocked from \n recovering more bodies.\"\n The Wall Street Journal, 3/4/92\n\nExiting Troops Attacked in Nagorno-Karabagh:\n\n\"Withdrawal halted; Armenians Blamed...\n More video footage and reports from Khocaly paint a grim picture of \n widespread civilian deaths and mutilation...\n One woman's feet appeared to have been bound...\"\n Paul Quinn-Judge\n The Boston Globe, 3/4/92\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nSooner than you expect. Remember 'Cyprus'?\n\n\nToo bad. In fact, by 1942, Nazi Armenians in Europe had established \na vast network of pro-German collaborators, that extended over two \ncontinents. Thousands of Armenians were serving the German army and \nWaffen-SS in Russia and Western Europe. Armenians were involved in \nespionage and fifth-column activities for Hitler in the Balkans and \nArabian Peninsula. They were promised an 'independent' state under \nGerman 'protection' in an agreement signed by the 'Armenian National \nCouncil.' (A copy of this agreement can be found in the 'Congressional \nRecord,' November 1, 1945; see Document 1.) On this side of the Atlantic, \nNazi Armenians were aware of their brethrens alliance. They had often \nexpressed pro-Nazi sentiments until America entered the war. In summary,\nduring World War II Armenians were carried away with the German might and\ncringing and fawning over the Nazis. In that zeal, the Armenian publication\nin Germany, Hairenik, carried statements as follows:[1]\n\n\"Sometimes it is difficult to eradicate these poisonous elements (the Jews)\n when they have struck deep root like a chronic disease, and when it \n becomes necessary for a people (the Nazis) to eradicate them in an uncommon\n method, these attempts are regarded as revolutionary. During the surgical\n operation, the flow of blood is a natural thing.\" \n\nNow for a brief view of the Armenian genocide of the Muslims and Jews -\nextracts from a letter dated December 11, 1983, published in the San\nFrancisco Chronicle, as an answer to a letter that had been published\nin the same journal under the signature of one B. Amarian.\n\n \"...We have first hand information and evidence of Armenian atrocities\n against our people (Jews)...Members of our family witnessed the \n murder of 148 members of our family near Erzurum, Turkey, by Armenian \n neighbors, bent on destroying anything and anybody remotely Jewish \n and/or Muslim. Armenians should look to their own history and see \n the havoc they and their ancestors perpetrated upon their neighbors...\n Armenians were in league with Hitler in the last war, on his premise \n to grant them self government if, in return, the Armenians would \n help exterminate Jews...Armenians were also hearty proponents of\n the anti-Semitic acts in league with the Russian Communists. Mr. Amarian!\n I don't need your bias.\" \n\n Signed Elihu Ben Levi, Vacaville, California.\n\n[1] James G. Mandalian, 'Dro, Drastamat Kanayan,' in the 'Armenian\n Review,' a Quarterly by the Hairenik Association, Inc., Summer:\n June 1957, Vol. X, No. 2-38.\n\nSerdar Argic", "\nYeah, just like you shouldn't assume that Aryan Nations supports\ngenocide. Who are they (and you) fooling?", "Accounts of Anti-Armenian Human Right Violations in Azerbaijan #008 Part A\n Prelude to Current Events in Nagorno-Karabakh\n\t\n\t\t\t\t(Part A of #008)\n\n +------------------------------------------------------------------+\n | |\n | \"Oh, yes, I just remembered. While they were raping me they |\n | repeated quite frequently, \"Let the Armenian women have babies |\n | for us, Muslim babies, let them bear Azerbaijanis for the |\n | struggle against the Armenians.\" Then they said, \"Those |\n | Muslims can carry on our holy cause. Heroes!\" They repeated |\n | it very often.\" |\n | |\n +------------------------------------------------------------------+\n\nDEPOSITION OF LYUDMILA GRIGOREVNA M.\n\n Born 1959\n Teacher\n Sumgait Secondary School No. 10\n Secretary of the Komsomol Organization at School No. 10\n Member of the Sumgait City Komsomol Committee Office\n\n Resident at Building 17/33B, Apartment 15\n Microdistrict No. 3\n Sumgait [Azerbaijan]\n\n[Note: The events in Kafan, used as a pretext to attack Armenians in \n Azerbaijan are false, as verified by independent International Human Rights\n organizations - DD]\n\nI'm thinking about the price the Sumgait Armenians paid to be living in\nArmenia now. We paid for it in human casualties and crippled fates--the\nprice was too great! Now, after the Sumgait tragedy, we, the victims, divide\nour lives into \"before\" and ''after.\" We talk like that: that was before the\nwar. Like the people who went through World War II and considered it a whole\nepoch, a fate. No matter how many years go by, no matter how long we live,\nit will never be forgotten. On the contrary, some of the moments become even \nsharper: in our rage, in our sorrow, we saw everything differently, but now\n. . . They say that you can see more with distance, and we can see those\ninhuman events with more clarity now . . . we more acutely perceive our\nlosses and everything that happened.\n\nNineteen eighty-eight was a leap year. Everyone fears a leap year and wants it\nto pass as quickly as possible. Yet we never thought that that leap year would\nbe such a black one for every Sumgait Armenian: those who lost someone and \nthose who didn't.\n\nThat second to last day of winter was ordinary for our family, although you \ncould already smell danger in the air. But we didn't think that the danger was\nnear and possible, so we didn't take any steps to save ourselves. At least, as\nmy parents say, at least we should have done something to save the children. \nMy parents themselves are not that old, 52 and 53 years. But then they thought\nthat they had already lived enough, and did everything they could to save us.\n\nIn our apartment the tragedy started on February 28, around five in the\nafternoon. I call it a tragedy, and I repeat: it was a tragedy even though all\nour family survived. When I recall how they broke down our door my skin\ncrawls; even now, among Armenians, among people who wish me only well, I feel\nlike it's all starting over again. I remember how that mob broke into our \napartment . . . My parents were standing in the hall. My father had an axe in \nhis hands and had immediately locked both of the doors. Our door was rarely \nlocked since friends and neighbors often dropped by. We're known as a \nhospitable family, and we just never really thought about whether the people \nwho were coming to see us were Azerbaijanis, Jews, or Russians. We had friends\nof many nationalities, even a Turkmen woman.\n\nMy parents were in the hall, my father with an axe. I remember him telling my \nmother, \"Run to the kitchen for a knife.\" But Mother was detached, pale, as \nthough she had decided to sell her life a bit dearer. To be honest I never \nexpected it of her, she's afraid of getting shot and afraid of the dark. A \ngirlfriend was at the house that day, a Russian girl, Lyuda, and Mamma said, \n\"No matter what happens, no matter what they do to us, you're not to come out \nof the bedroom. We're going to tell them that we're alone in the apartment.\"\n\nWe went into the bedroom. There were four of us. Marina and the Russian girl \ncrawled under the bed, and we covered them up with a rug, boxes of dishes, and\nKarina and I are standing there and looking at one another. The idea that \nperhaps we were seeing each other for the last time flashed somewhere inside \nme. I'm an emotional person and I express my emotions immediately. I wanted to\nembrace her and kiss her, as though it were the last second. And maybe Karina \nwas thinking the same thing, but she's quite reserved. We didn't have time to \nsay anything to each other because we immediately heard Mamma raise a shout. \nThere was so much noise from the tramping of feet, from the shouting, and from\nexcited voices. I couldn't figure what was going on out there because the door\nto the bedroom was only open a crack. But when Mamma shouted the second time\nKarina ran out of the bedroom. I ran after her, I had wanted to hold her back,\nbut when she opened the door and ran out into the hall they saw us \nimmediately. The only thing I managed to do was close the door behind me, at \nleast so as to save Marina and her friend. The mob was shouting, all of their \neyes were shining, all red, like from insomnia. At first about 40 people burst\nin, but later I was standing with my back to the door and couldn't see. They \ncame into the hall, into the kitchen, and dragged my father into the other \nroom. He didn't utter a word, he just raised the axe to hit them, but Mamma \nsnatched the axe from behind and said, \"Tell them not to touch the children. \nTell them they can do as they want with us, but not to harm the children.\" She\nsaid this to Father in Armenian.\n\nThere were Azerbaijanis from Armenia among the mob who broke in. They \nunderstood Armenian perfectly. The local Azerbaijanis don't know Armenian, \nthey don't need to speak it. And one of them responded in Armenian: \"You and \nyour children both . . . we're going to do the same thing to you and your \nchildren that you Armenians did in Kafan. They killed our women, our girls, \nour mothers, they cut their breasts off, and burned our houses . . . ,\" and \nso on and so forth, \"and we came to do the same thing to you.\" This whole time\nsome of them are destroying the house and the others are shouting at us. They \nwere mostly young people, under 30. At first there weren't any older people \namong them. And all of their faces were unfamiliar. Sumgait is a small town, \nall the same, and we know a lot of people by their faces, especially me, I'm \na teacher.\n\nSo they dragged my father into the other room. They twisted his arms and took \nhim in there, no they didn't take him in there, they dragged him in there,\nbecause he was already unable to walk. They closed the door to that room all \nbut a crack. We couldn't see what was happening to Father, what they were \ndoing to him. Then a young man, about 26 years old, started to tear off \nMamma's sarafan, and Mamma shouted at him in Azerbaijani: \"I'm old enough to \nbe your mother! What are you doing?!\" He struck her. Now he's being held, \nMamma identified him. I hope he's convicted. Then they went after Karina, \nwho's been talking to them like a Komsomol leader, as though she were trying \nto lead them down a different path, as they say, to influence their \nconsciousness. She told them that what they were doing was wrong, that they \nmustn't do it. She said, \"Come on, let's straighten this out, without \nemotions. What do you want? Who are you? Why did you come here? What did we \never do to you?\" Someone tried to explain who they were and why they had come \ninto our home, but then the ones in the back--more of them kept coming and \ncoming--said, \"What are you talking to, them for. You should kill them. We \ncame here to kill them.\"\n\nThey pushed Karina, struck her, and she fell down. They beat her, but she \ndidn't cry out. Even when they tore her clothes off, she kept repeating, \"What\ndid we do to you? What did we do to you?\" And even later, when she came to, \nshe said, \"Mamma, what did we do to them? Why did they do that to us?\"\n\nThat group was prepared, I know this because I noticed that some of them only \nbroke up furniture, and others only dealt with us. I remember that when they \nwere beating me, when they were tearing my clothes off, I felt neither pain \nnor shame because my entire attention was riveted to Karina. All I could do \nwas watch how much they beat her and how painful it was for her, and what they\ndid to her. That's why I felt no pain. Later, when they carried Karina off, \nthey beat her savagely . . . It's really amazing that she not only lived, but \ndidn't lose her mind . She is very beautiful and they did everything they \ncould to destroy her beauty. Mostly they beat her face, with their fists, \nkicking her, using anything they could find.\n\nMamma, Karina, and I were all in one room. And again I didn't feel any pain, \njust didn't feel any, no matter how much they beat me, no matter what they \ndid. Then one of those creeps said that there wasn't enough room in the\napartment. They broke up the beds and the desk and moved everything into the \ncorners so there would be more room. Then someone suggested, \"Let's take her \noutside.\"\n\nThose beasts were in Heaven. They did what they would do every day if they \nweren't afraid of the authorities. Those were their true colors. At the time \nI thought that in fact they would always behave that way if they weren't \nafraid of what would happen to them.\n\nWhen they carried Karina out and beat Mamma-her face was completely covered \nwith blood--that's when I started to feel the pain. I blacked out several \ntimes from the pain, but each moment that I had my eyes open it was as though \nI were recording it all on film. I think I'm a kind person by nature, but I'm \nvengeful, especially if someone is mean to me, and I don't deserve it. I hold \na grudge a long time if someone intentionally causes me pain. And every time \nI would come to and see one of those animals on top of me, I'd remember them, \nand I'll remember them for the rest of my life, even though people tell me \n\"forget,\" you have to forget, you have to go on living.\n\nAt some point I remember that they stood me up and told me something, and \ndespite the fact that I hurt all over--I had been beaten terribly--I found\nthe strength in myself to interfere with their tortures. I realized that I had\nto do something: resist them or just let them kill me to bring my suffering \nto an end. I pushed one of them away, he was a real horse. I remember now that\nhe's being held, too. As though they were all waiting for it, they seized me\nand took me out onto the balcony. I had long hair, and it was stuck all over\nme. One of the veranda shutters to the balcony was open, and I realized that\nthey planned to throw me out the window, because they had already picked me up\nwith their hands, I was up in the air. As though for the last time I took a \nreally deep breath and closed my eyes, and somehow braced myself inside, I \nsuddenly became cold, as though my heart had sunk into my feet. And suddenly \nI felt myself flying. I couldn't figure out if I was really flying or if I \njust imagined it. When I came to I thought now I'm going to smash on the \nground. And when it didn't happen I opened my eyes and realized that I was \nstill lying on the floor. And since I didn't scream, didn't beg them at all,\nthey became all the more wild, like wolves. They started to trample me with\ntheir feet. Shoes with heels on them, and iron horseshoes, like they had spe-\ncially put them on. Then I lost consciousness.\n\nI came to a couple of times and waited for death, summoned it, beseeched it. \nSome people ask for good health, life, happiness, but at that moment I didn't \nneed any of those things. I was sure that none of us would survive, and I had \neven forgotten about Marina; and if none of us was alive, it wasn't worth \nliving.\n\nThere was a moment when the pain was especially great. I withstood inhuman \npain, and realized that they were going to torment me for a long time to come \nbecause I had showed myself to be so tenacious. I started to strangle myself, \nand when I started to wheeze they realized that with my death I was going to\nput an end to their pleasures, and they pulled my hands from my throat. The \nperson who injured and insulted me most painfully I remember him very well, \nbecause he was the oldest in the group. He looked around 48. I know that he \nhas four children and that he considers himself an ideal father and person, \none who would never do such a thing. Something came over him then, you see, \neven during the investigation he almost called me \"daughter,\" he apologized, \nalthough, of course, he knew that I'd never forgive him. Something like that \nI can never forgive. I have never injured anyone with my behavior, with my \nwords, or with my deeds, I have always put myself in the other person's shoes,\nbut then, in a matter of hours, they trampled me entirely. I shall never \nforget it.\n\nI wanted to do myself in then, because I had nothing to lose, because no one \ncould protect me. My father, who tried to do something against that hoard of \nbeasts by himself, could do nothing and wouldn't be able to do anything.\nI knew that I was even sure that he was no longer alive.\n\nAnd Ira Melkumian, my acquaintance I knew her and had been to see her family a\ncouple of times--her brother tried to save her and couldn't, so he tried to \nkill her, his very own sister. He threw an axe at her to kill her and put an \nend to her suffering. When they stripped her clothes off and carried her into \nthe other room, her brother knew what awaited her. I don't know which one it \nwas, Edik or Igor. Both of them were in the room from which the axe was \nthrown. But the axe hit one of the people carrying her and so they killed her \nand made her death even more excruciating, maybe the most excruciating of all \nthe deaths of those days in Sumgait. I heard about it all from the neighbor \nfrom the Melkumians' landing. His name is Makhaddin, he knows my family a \nlittle. He came to see how we had gotten settled in the new apartment in Baku,\nhow we were feeling, and if we needed anything. He's a good person. He said, \n\"You should praise God that you all survived. But what I saw with my own eyes,\nI, a man, who has seen so many people die, who has lived a whole life, I,\" he\nsays, \"nearly lost my mind that day. I had never seen the likes of it and \nthink I never shall again.\" The door to his apartment was open and he saw \neverything. One of the brothers threw the axe, because they had already taken \nthe father and mother out of the apartment. Igor, Edik, and Ira remained. He \nsaw Ira, naked, being carried into the other room in the hands of six or seven\npeople. He told us about it and said he would never forget it. He heard the \nbrothers shouting something, inarticulate from pain, rage, and the fact that \nthey were powerless to do anything. But all the same they tried to \ndo something. The guy who got hit with the axe lived. I I\n\nAfter I had been unsuccessful at killing myself I saw them taking Marina and \nLyuda out of the bedroom. I was in such a state that I couldn't even \nremember my sister's name. I wanted to cry \"Marina!\" out to her, but could\nnot. I looked at her and knew that it was a familiar, dear face, but couldn't\nfor the life of me remember what her name was and who she was. And thus\nI saved her, because when they were taking her out, she, as it turns out, had\ntold them that she had just been visiting and that she and Lyuda were both\nthere by chance, that they weren't Armenians. Lyuda's a Russian, you can tell \nright away, and Marina speaks Azerbaijani wonderfully and she told them that\nshe was an Azerbaijani. And I almost gave her away and doomed her. I'm glad \nthat at least Marina came out of this all in good physical health . . . \nalthough her spirit was murdered . . .\n\nAt some point I came to and saw Igor, Igor Agayev, my acquaintance, in that \nmob. He lives in the neighboring building. For some reason I remembered his \nname, maybe I sensed my defense in him. I called out to him in Russian, \"Igor,\nhelp!\" But he turned away and went into the bedroom. Just then they were \ntaking Marina and Lyuda out of the bedroom. Igor said he knew Marina and \nLyuda, that Marina in fact was Azerbaijani, and he took both of them to the \nneighbors.\n\nAnd the idea stole through me that maybe Igor had led them to our apartment, \nsomething like that, but if he was my friend, he was supposed to save me.\n \nThen they were striking me very hard--we have an Indian vase, a metal one, \nthey were hitting me on the back with it and I blacked out--they took me out \nonto the balcony a second time to throw me out the window. They were already \nsure that I was dead because I didn't react at all to the new blows. Someone \nsaid, \"She's already dead, let's throw her out.\" When they carried me out onto\nthe balcony for the second time, when I was about to die the second time, I \nheard someone say in Azerbaijani: \"Don't kill her, I know her, she's a \nteacher.\" I can still hear that voice ringing in my ears, but I can't remember\nwhose voice it was. It wasn't Igor, because he speaks Azerbaijani with an \naccent: his mother is Russian and they speak Russian at home. He speaks\nAzerbaijani worse than our Marina does. I remember when they carried me in and\nthrew me on the bed he came up to me, that person, and \tI having opened my \neyes, saw and recognized that person, but immediately passed out cold. I had \nbeen beaten so much that I didn't have the strength to remember him. I only \nremember that this person was older and he had a high position. Unfortunately \nI can't remember anything more.\n\nWhat should I say about Igor? He didn't treat me badly. I had heard a lot \nabout him, that he wasn't that good a person, that he sometimes drank too\nmuch. Once he boasted to me that he had served in Afghanistan. He knew that \nwomen usually like bravery in a man. Especially if a man was in Afghanistan,\nif he was wounded, then it's about eighty percent sure that he will be treated\nvery sympathetically, with respect. Later I found out that he had served in \nUfa, and was injured, but that's not in Afghanistan, of course. I found that \nall out later.\n\nAmong the people who were in our apartment, my Karina also saw the Secretary \nof the Party organization. I don't know his last name, his first name is \nNajaf, he is an Armenian-born Azerbaijani. But later Karina wasn't so sure,\nshe was no longer a hundred percent sure that it was he she saw, and she \ndidn't want to endanger him. She said, \"He was there,\" and a little while \nlater, \"Maybe they beat me so much that I am confusing him with someone else. \nNo, it seems like it was he.\" I am sure it was he because when he came to see \nus the first time he said one thing, and the next time he said something \nentirely different. The investigators haven't summoned him yet. He came to see\nus in the Khimik boarding house where we were living at the time. He brought \ngroceries and flowers, this was right before March 8th; he almost started \ncrying, he was so upset to see our condition. I don't know if he was putting \nus on or not, but later, after we had told the investigator and they summoned \nhim to the Procuracy, he said that he had been in Baku, he wasn't in Sumgait. \nThe fact that he changed his testimony leads me to believe that Karina is \nright, that in fact it was he who was in our apartment. I don't know how the \ninvestigators are now treating him. At one point I wondered and asked, and was\ntold that he had an alibi and was not in our apartment. Couldn't he have gone \nto Baku and arranged an alibi? I'm not ruling out that possibility.\n\nIll now return to our apartment. Mamma had come to. You could say that she \nbought them off with the gold Father gave her when they were married: her \nwedding band and her watch were gold. She bought her own and her husband's \nlives with them. She gave the gold to a 14-year old boy. Vadim Vorobyev. A \nRussian boy, he speaks Azerbaijani perfectly. He's an orphan who was raised by\nhis grandfather and who lives in Sumgait on Nizami Street. He goes to a \nspecial school, one for mentally handicapped children. But I'll say this--I'm \na teacher all the same and in a matter of minutes I can form an opinion--that\nboy is not at all mentally handicapped. He's healthy, he can think just fine, \nand analyze, too . . . policemen should be so lucky. And he's cunning, too. \nAfter that he went home and tore all of the pictures out of his photo album.\n\nHe beat Mamma and demanded gold, saying, \"Lady, if you give us all the gold \nand money in your apartment we'll let you live.\" And Mamma told them where \nthe gold was. He brought in the bag and opened it, shook out the contents, and \neveryone who was in the apartment jumped on it, started knocking each other \nover and taking the gold from one another. I'm surprised they didn't kill one \nanother right then.\n\nMamma was still in control of herself. She had been beaten up, her face was\nblack and blue from the blows, and her eyes were filled with blood, and she \nran into the other room. Father was lying there, tied up, with a gag in his\nmouth and a pillow over his face. There was a broken table on top of the pil-\nlow. Mamma grabbed Father and he couldn't walk; like me, he was half dead, \nhalfway into the other world. He couldn't comprehend anything, couldn't see, \nand was covered with black and blue. Mamma pulled the gag out of his mouth, \nit was some sort of cloth, I think it was a slipcover from an armchair.\n\nThe bandits were still in our apartment, even in the room Mamma pulled Father \nout of, led him out of, carried him out of. We had two armchairs in that room,\na small magazine table, a couch, a television, and a screen. Three people \nwere standing next to that screen, and into their shirts, their pants, \neverywhere imaginable, they were shoving shot glasses and cups from the coffee\nservice--Mamma saw them out of the corner of her eye. She said, \"I was afraid \nto turn around, I just seized Father and started pulling him, but at the \nthreshold I couldn't hold him up, he fell down, and I picked him up again and \ndragged him down the stairs to the neighbors'.\" Mamma remembered one of the \ncriminals, the one who had watched her with his face half-turned toward her, \nout of one eye. She says, \"I realized that my death would come from that \nperson. I looked him in the eyes and he recoiled from fear and went stealing.\"\nLater they caught that scoundrel. Meanwhile, Mamma grabbed Father and left.\n\nI was alone. Igor had taken Marina away, Mamma and Father were gone, Karina \nwas already outside, I didn't know what they were doing to her. I was left all\nalone, and at that moment . . . I became someone else, do you understand? Even\nthough I knew that neither Mother and Father in the other room, nor Marina and\nLyuda under the bed could save me, all the same I somehow managed to hold out.\nI went on fighting them, I bit someone, I remember, and I scratched another. \nBut when I was left alone I realized what kind of people they were, the ones \nI had observed, the ones who beat Karina, what kind of people they were, the \nones who beat me, that it was all unnecessary, that I was about to die and \nthat all of that would die with me.\n\nAt some point I took heart when I saw the young man from the next building. I \ndidn't know his name, but we would greet one another when we met, we knew that\nwe were from the same microdistrict. When I saw him I said, \"Neighbor, is that\nyou?\" In so doing I placed myself in great danger. He realized that if I lived\nI would remember him. That's when he grabbed the axe. The axe that had been \ntaken from my father. I automatically fell to my knees and raised my hands to \ntake the blow of the axe, although at the time it would have been better if he\nhad struck me in the head with the axe and put me out of my misery. When he \nstarted getting ready to wind back for the blow, someone came into the room. \nThe newcomer had such an impact on everyone that my neighbor's axe froze in \nthe air. Everyone stood at attention for this guy, like soldiers in the \npresence of a general. Everyone waited for his word: continue the atrocities \nor not. He said, \"Enough, let's go to the third entryway.\" In the third \nentryway they killed Uncle Shurik, Aleksandr Gambarian. This confirms once \nagain that they had prepared in advance. Almost all of them left with him, as \nthey went picking up pillows, blankets, whatever they needed, whatever they \nfound, all the way up to worn out slippers and one boot, someone else had \nalready taken the other.\n\nFour people remained in the room, soldiers who didn't obey their general. They\nhad to have come recently, because other faces had flashed in front of me over\nthose 2 to 3 hours, but I had never seen those three. One of them, Kuliyev (I \nidentified him later), a native of the Sisian District of Armenia, an \nAzerbaijani, had moved to Azerbaijan a year before. He told me in Armenian:\n\"Sister, don't be afraid, I'll drive those three Azerbaijanis out of here.\"\nThat's just what he said, \"those Azerbaijanis,\" as though he himself were not \nAzerbaijani, but some other nationality, he said with such hatred, \"I'll drive\nthem out of here now, and you put your clothes on, and find a hammer and nails\nand nail the door shut, because they'll be coming back from Apartment 41.\" \nThat's when I found out that they had gone to Apartment 41. Before that, the \nperson in the Eskimo dogskin coat, the one who came in and whom they listened \nto, the \"general,\" said that they were going to the third entryway.\n\nKuliyev helped me get some clothes on, because l couldn't do it by myself. \nMarina's old fur coat was lying on the floor. He threw it over my shoulders, I\nwas racked with shivers, and he asked where he could find nails and a hammer. \nHe wanted to give them to me so that when he left I could nail the door shut. \nBut the door was lying on the floor in the hall.\n\nI went out onto the balcony. There were broken windows, and flowers and dirt \nfrom flowerpots were scattered on the floor. It was impossible to find \nanything. He told me, \"Well, fine, I won't leave you here. Would any of the \nneighbors let you in? They'll be back, they won't calm down, they know you're \nalive.\" He told me all this in Armenian.\n\nThen he returned to the others and said, \"What are you waiting for? Leave!\" \nThey said, \"Ah, you just want to chase us out of here and do it with her \nyourself. No, we want to do it to.\" He urged them on, but gently, not \ncoarsely, because he was alone against them, although they were still just\nboys, not old enough to be drafted. He led them out of the room, and went\ndown to the third floor with them himself, and said, \"Leave. What's the mat-\nter, aren't you men? Go fight with the men. What do you want of her?\" And\nhe came back upstairs. They wanted to come up after him and he realized that \nhe couldn't hold them off forever. Then he asked me where he could hide me. I \ntold him at the neighbors' on the fourth floor, Apartment 10, we were on really\ngood terms with them.\n\nWe knocked on the door, and he explained in Azerbaijani. The neighbor woman \nopened the door and immediately said, \"I'm an Azerbaijani.\" He said, \"I know. \nLet her sit at your place a while. Don't open the door to anyone, no one knows\nabout this, I won't tell anyone. Let her stay at your place.\" She says, \"Fine,\nhave her come in.\" I went in. She cried a bit and gave me some stockings, I \nhad gone entirely numb and was racked with nervous shudders. I burst into \ntears. Even though I was wearing Marina's old fur coat, it's a short one, a \nhalf-length, I was cold all the same. I asked, \"Do you know where my family \nis, what happened to them?\" She says, \"No, I don't know anything. I'm afraid \nto go out of the apartment, now they're so wild that they don't look to see \nwho's Azerbaijani and who's Armenian.\" Kuliyev left. Ten minutes later my \nneighbor says, \"You know, Lyuda, I don't want to lose my life because of you, \nor my son and his wife. Go stay with someone else.\" During the butchery in our\napartment one of the scum, a sadist, took my earring in his mouth--I had pearl\nearrings on--and ripped it out, tearing the earlobe. The other earring was \nstill there. When I'm nervous I fix my hair constantly, and then, when I \ntouched my ear, I noticed that I had one earring on. I took it out and gave it\nto her. She took the earring, but she led me out of the apartment.\n\nI went out and didn't know where to go. I heard someone going upstairs. I \ndon't know who it was but assumed it was them. With tremendous difficulty I \nend up to our apartment, I wanted to die in my own home. I go into the \napartment and hear that they are coming up to our place, to the fifth floor. \nI had to do something. I went into the bedroom where Marina and Lyuda had \nhidden and saw that the bed was overturned. Instead of hiding I squatted near \nsome broken Christmas ornaments, found an unbroken one, and started sobbing. \nThen they came in. Someone said that there were still some things to take. I \nthink that someone pushed me under the bed. I lay on the floor, and there were\nbroken ornaments on it, under my head and legs. I got all cut up, but I lay \nthere without moving. My heart was beating so hard it seemed the whole town \ncould hear it. There were no lights on. Maybe that's what saved me. They were \nburning matches, and toward the end they brought in a candle. They started\npicking out the clothes that could still be worn. They took Father's sport \njacket and a bedspread, the end of which was under my head. They pulled on the\none end, and it felt like they were pulling my hair out. I almost cried out. \nAnd again I realized I wasn't getting out of there alive, and I started to \nstrangle myself again. I took my throat in one hand, and pressed the other on \nmy mouth, so as not to wheeze, so that I would die and they would only find me\nafterward. They were throwing the burned matches under the bed, and I got \nburned, but I withstood it. Something inside of me held on, someone's hand was\nprotecting me to the end. I knew that I was going to die, but I didn't know \nhow. I knew that if I survived I would walk out of that apartment, but if \nI found out that one of my family had died, I would die for sure, because I \nhad never been so close to death and couldn't imagine how you could go on \nliving without your mother or father, or without your sister. Marina, I \nthought, was still alive: she went to Lyuda's place or someone is hiding her. \nI tried to think that Igor wouldn't let them be killed. He served in \nAfghanistan, he should protect her.\n\nWhile I was strangling myself I said my good-byes to everyone. And then I\nthought, how could Marina survive alone. If they killed all of us, how would \nshe live all by herself? There were six people in the room. They talked among \nthemselves and smoked. One talked about his daughter, saying that there was no\nchildren's footwear in our apartment that he could take for his daughter. \nAnother said that he liked the apartment--recently we had done a really good \njob fixing everything up--and that he would live there after everything was \nall over. They started to argue. A third one says, \"How come you get it? I \nhave four children, and there are three rooms here, that's just what I need. \nAll these years I've been living in God-awful places.\" Another one says, \n\"Neither of you gets it. We'll set fire to it and leave.\" Then someone said \nthat Azerbaijanis live right next door, the fire could move over to their\nplace. And they, to my good fortune, didn't set fire to the apartment, and\nleft.\n\nOh, yes, I just remembered. While they were raping me they repeated quite \nfrequently, \"Let the Armenian women have babies for us, Muslim babies, let \nthem bear Azerbaijanis for the struggle against the Armenians.\" Then they \nsaid, \"Those Muslims can carry on our holy cause. Heroes!\" They repeated it \nvery often.\n\n\t\t - - - reference for #008 - - -\n\n[1] _The Sumgait Tragedy; Pogroms against Armenians in Soviet Azerbaijan,\n Volume I, Eyewitness Accounts_, edited by Samuel Shahmuradian, forward by\n Yelena Bonner, 1990, published by Aristide D. Caratzas, NY, pages 118-145\n\n", "[...}\n\nLiving through those days at the age of 20 and following\nthe internal and external news gives me that knowledge\nand position. In 1974, Turkey had a democratic goverment and free\npress at that time. Forget about internal news agencies, I haven't\nheard anything from any international source about any\nconcentration camps with Greek Cypriot prisoners in Turkey.\nHowever, I heard Adana POW camp. It was not secret and well \nrecognized POW camp. \n\nI see, They vanished in Turkish labor camps. Turks have\ndecided to acknowledge their existence first but later\nchanged their minds releasing them. Is that it? What do\nyou think happened to them? I thought that MIA's are only the subject \nof Rambo and Chuck Noris movies. Seems that I am wrong.\n\n\nYou don't need to belive me. Turkiye was never a clandestine state\nin its history, It has been a respected and continuous member of UN \nsince the inception of UN. No body ever questioned the UN membership of\nTurkey because of what had happened in 1974a and after. Only a short \nlived arms embargo was imposed unilaterally by USA to satisfy the \ninternal Greek loby. I know what you would say next. Let me answer it\nbefore wasting anytime. Yes! UN had a few condemning resolutions \nagainst Turkey because of handling the Cyprus problem, especially after\nthe 1980 coup. Well, US and Israel had a few too. What can I say?\nI am sure during Athens Junta duruing 1960-74, Greeks had\ntheir own share too.\n\n\nHave you looked at the latest UN agenda for Cyprus talks\nmediated by Gali? There was no issue whatsoever about any\nmissing people among the negotiating parties. was there?\nI heard many times from Denktas interviews by Turkish and\nInternational press. He keeps saying that \"This was no\nlonger an issue for peace talks.\" Also, you don't want\nme fish for the Greek Cypriot politician's words (that Argic\nhad posted zillion times) describing missing peoples as \na Greek-Cypriot myth. Seems that there is a different opinions \namong Greek-Cypriots as well about missing people in Turkish \ncustody.\n\n[..]\n\n\nI am not claiming anything. I just told you what was\ngiven to Greek Cypriots as an answer by Turkish\nGoverment/Turkish Cypriots when they wanted to locate some\nof their own between July 15 and the final cease-fire in\nlate August, 1974. This answer seems to satisfy the international \ncommunity, the UN, and the Vasilu Goverment (since he did not make it\nan issue for the peace talks). Also, I am not aware of any UN\ncondemnation against Turkey about any missing Greek-Cypriot. Are you? \n\nBTW, do you mean that Nicos Sampson had a bloodless coup d'eta\nand nobody got hurt in those events? \n\n\nLike I said before. There is even a different opinion among\nGreek-Cypriots for this myth. The officers in Turkish Army who\ngoverned the Adana POW camp must be hell of clever dudes\nto cover up their tracks 8-). I hope Turkish Army does't have \nsame type of morons for the security of Turkiye. However, this must \na good subject for a movie script. One should inform Oliver Stone \nabout this.\n\n^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n^^^^^^^^^^^\n^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nIf this is what you understood from the paragraph above,\nyou better let your computer system administrator check\nthe character conversion tables in your system. If yours are\nOK, I should inform mine 8-).", "\n\nAnytime.\n\n\nSuffering from a severe case of myopia? No Muslim left alive - not a \nsingle one. Leading the first Armenian units who crossed the Ottoman \nborder in the company of the Russian invaders was the former Ottoman \nParliamentary representative for Erzurum, Karekin Pastirmaciyan, who \nassumed the revolutionary name Armen Garo. Another former Ottoman \nparliamentarian, Hamparsum Boyaciyan, led the Armenian guerrilla forces \nwho ravaged Turkish villages behind the lines under the nickname \"Murad\", \nespecially ordering that \n\n 'Kill Turks and Kurds wherever you find them and in \n whatever circumstances you find them. Turkish children \n also should be killed as they form a danger to the \n Armenian nation.' (Hamparsum Boyadjian - 1914)[1]\n\n [1] M. Varandian, \"History of the Dashnaktsutiun,\" p. 85.\n\nAnother former Member of Parliament, Papazyan, led the Armenian \nguerrilla forces that ravaged the areas of Van, Bitlis and Mush.\n\nIn March 1915, the Russian forces began to move toward Van. Immediately,\nin April 11, 1915 the Armenians of Van began a revolt, massacring all \nthe Turks in the vicinity so as to make possible its quick and easy \nconquest by Russians. Little wonder that Czar Nicholas II sent a \ntelegram of thanks to the Armenian Revolutionary Committee of Van in \nApril 21, 1915, \"thanking it for its services to Russia.\" The Armenian \nnewspaper Gochnak, published in the United States, also proudly \nreported in May 24, 1915 that \n\n\"only 1,500 Turks remained in Van the rest having been slaughtered.\"\n\nSource: Hovannisian, Richard G.: Armenia on the Road to Independence, 1918.\nUniversity of California Press (Berkeley and Los Angeles), 1967, p. 13.\n\n\"The addition of the Kars and Batum oblasts to the Empire increased the\n area of Transcaucasia to over 130,000 square miles. The estimated population\n of the entire region in 1886 was 4,700,000, of whom 940,000 (20 percent) were\n Armenian, 1,200,000 (25 percent) Georgian, and 2,220,000 (45 percent) Moslem.\n Of the latter group, 1,140,000 were Tatars. Paradoxically, barely one-third\n of Transcaucasia's Armenians lived in the Erevan guberniia, where the \n Christians constituted a majority in only three of the seven uezds. Erevan\n uezd, the administrative center of the province, had only 44,000 Armenians\n as compared to 68,000 Moslems. By the time of the Russian Census of 1897,\n however, the Armenians had established a scant majority, 53 percent, in the\n guberniia; it had risen by 1916 to 60 percent, or 670,000 of the 1,120,000\n inhabitants. This impressive change in the province's ethnic character \n notwithstanding, there was, on the eve of the creation of the Armenian \n Republic, a solid block of 370,000 Tartars who continued to dominate the \n southern districts, from the outskirts of Ereven to the border of Persia.\" \n (See also Map 1. Historic Armenia and Map 4. Administrative subdivisions of \n Transcaucasia).\n\nIn 1920, '0' percent Turk. \n\n\"We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as \n ways of escape for the Tartars and then proceeded in the work \n of extermination. Our troops surrounded village after village. \n Little resistance was offered. Our artillery knocked the huts \n into heaps of stone and dust and when the villages became untenable \n and inhabitants fled from them into fields, bullets and bayonets \n completed the work. Some of the Tartars escaped of course. They \n found refuge in the mountains or succeeded in crossing the border \n into Turkey. The rest were killed. And so it is that the whole \n length of the borderland of Russian Armenia from Nakhitchevan to \n Akhalkalaki from the hot plains of Ararat to the cold mountain \n plateau of the North were dotted with mute mournful ruins of \n Tartar villages. They are quiet now, those villages, except for \n howling of wolves and jackals that visit them to paw over the \n scattered bones of the dead.\" \n\n Ohanus Appressian\n \"Men Are Like That\"\n p. 202.\n\nSource: Stanford J. Shaw, on Armenian collaboration with invading Russian\narmies in 1914, \"History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey (Volume\nII: Reform, Revolution & Republic: The Rise of Modern Turkey, 1808-1975).\"\n(London, Cambridge University Press 1977). pp. 315-316.\n\n\"In April 1915 Dashnaks from Russian Armenia organized a revolt in the city \n of Van, whose 33,789 Armenians comprised 42.3 percent of the population, \n closest to an Armenian majority of any city in the Empire...Leaving Erivan \n on April 28, 1915, Armenian volunteers reached Van on May 14 and organized \n and carried out a general slaughter of the local Muslim population during \n the next two days while the small Ottoman garrison had to retreat to the\n southern side of the lake.\"\n\n\"Knowing their numbers would never justify their territorial ambitions,\n Armenians looked to Russia and Europe for the fulfillment of their aims.\n Armenian treachery in this regard culminated at the beginning of the First\n World War with the decision of the revolutionary organizations to refuse\n to serve their state, the Ottoman Empire, and to assist instead other\n invading Russian armies. Their hope was their participation in the Russian\n success would be rewarded with an independent Armenian state carved out of\n Ottoman territories. Armenian political leaders, army officers, and common\n soldiers began deserting in droves.\"\n\n\"With the Russian invasion of eastern Anatolia in 1914 at the beginning of\n World War I, the degree of Armenian collaboration with the Ottoman's enemy\n increased drastically. Ottoman supply lines were cut by guerilla attacks,\n Armenian revolutionaries armed Armenian civil populations, who in turn\n massacred the Muslim population of the province of Van in anticipation of\n expected arrival of the invading Russian armies.\"\n\n\nSource: Stanford J. Shaw, \"History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey,\"\n Vol II. Cambridge University Press, London, 1979, pp. 314-317.\n\n\"...Meanwhile, Czar Nicholas II himself came to the Caucasus to make final\n plans for cooperation with the Armenians against the Ottomans, with the \n president of the Armenian National Bureau in Tiflis declaring in response:\n\n 'From all countries Armenians are hurrying to enter the ranks of the \n glorious Russian Army, with their blood to serve the victory of Russian\n arms...Let the Russian flag wave freely over the Dardanelles and the\n Bosporus. Let, with Your will, great Majesty, the peoples remaining\n under the Turkish yoke receive freedom. Let the Armenian people of Turkey\n who have suffered for the faith of Christ receive resurrection for a new\n free life under the protection of Russia.'[155]\n\nArmenians again flooded into the czarist armies. Preparations were made\nto strike the Ottomans from the rear, and the czar returned to St. Petersburg\nconfident that the day finally had come for him to reach Istanbul.\"\n\n[155] Horizon, Tiflis, November 30, 1914, quoted by Hovannisian, \"Road to\nIndependence,\" p. 45; FO 2485, 2484/46942, 22083.\n\n\"Ottoman morale and military position in the east were seriously hurt, and\n the way was prepared for a new Russian push into eastern Anatolia, to be\n accompanied by an open Armenian revolt against the sultan.[156]\"\n\n[156] Hovannisian, \"Road to Independence,\" pp. 45-47; Bayur, III/1, \npp. 349-380; W.E.D. Allen and P. Muratoff, \"Caucasian Battlefields,\"\nCambridge, 1953, pp. 251-277; Ali Ihsan Sabis, \"Harb Hahralaram,\" 2 vols.,\nAnkara, 1951, II, 41-160; FO 2146 no. 70404; FO 2485; FO 2484, nos.\n46942 and 22083.\n\n\"An Armenian state was organized at Van under Russian protection, and it \n appeared that with the Muslim natives dead or driven away, it might be\n able to maintain itself at one of the oldest centers of ancient Armenian\n civilization. An Armenian legion was organized 'to expel the Turks from\n the entire southern shore of the lake in preparation for a concerted\n Russian drive into the Bitlis vilayet.'[162] Thousands of Armenians from\n Mus and other major centers in the east began to flood into the new \n Armenian state...By mid-July there were as many as 250,000 Armenians\n crowded into the Van area, which before the crisis had housed and fed\n no more than 50,000 people, Muslim and non-Muslim alike.[163]\"\n\n[162] Hovannisian, \"Road to Independence,\" p. 56; FOP 2488, nos. 127223 and\n58350.\n\n[163] BVA, Meclis-i Vukela Mazbatalari, debates of August 15-17, 1915; \nBabi-i Ali Evrak Odasi, no. 175, 321, \"Van Ihtilali ve Katl-i Ami,\"\nZilkade 1333/10 September 1915.\n\nNow wait, there is more.\n\nFrom \"The Diplomacy of Imperialism,\" William L. Langer, New York (Alfred A.\nKnopf), 1960, pp. 157-160.\n\n \"Armenians watch their opportunity to kill Turks and Kurds, set fire \n to their villages, and then make their escape into the mountains.\"\n\n\nAre you people for real? The main legal principles of the Turkish State \nare summarized in Article 2 of the Constitution:\n\n\t\"The Republic of Turkey is a democratic, secular and social State\n\tgoverned by the rule of law; bearing in mind the concepts of public\n\tpeace, national solidarity and justice; respecting human rights;\n\tloyal to the nationalism of Ataturk, and based on the fundamental\n\ttenets set forth in the Preamble of the Constitution.\"\n\nFreedom of culture and religion prevailed during the Ottoman Empire, allowing\nthe many nations and races within its boundaries to remain autonomous. The\nfact that the Ottoman Empire was the longest lived in recent history may be\nattributed to these freedoms, despite the lack of any written Constitution.\nThe first attempts to create a written Constitution occurred in 1839 and 1856.\nAlthough the documents adopted during these two attempts remained in force\nonly temporarily, they provided the basic elements of a Constitution.\n\nThe 1876 Constitution was the first legal document to force a Parliament and\nthe right of election to share the sovereignty of the Emperor. The Constitution\nof 1906 placed some additional limitations on the Emperor, while increasing\nthe power of the Parliament and the government.\n\nThe First World War (1914-1918) brought the Ottoman Empire to an end. By the\noccupation of Istanbul, the Parliament was dissolved and the Constitution was\nabolished. The members of Parliament were sent to exile to an island by the\noccupying forces.\n\nDuring the Independence War, the \"Turkish Grand National Assembly\" held their\nfirst meeting on April 23, 1920 to serve as the legislative body of the new\nTurkish state. This assembly prepared the new legal structure of the Turkish\nRepublic. The new Republic was proclaimed on October 29, 1923 and the new\nConstitution was adopted in 1924. That Constitution served as the legal \nbackbone of today's modern Turkish Republic. In 1945, Turkey adopted a \nmulti-party political system. The Constitution of 1924 was replaced by\nothers in 1961 and 1982. All three Constitutions of the Republic have been\nbased on the principles of parliamentary democracy, human rights, national\nsovereignty, division of powers, private ownership and secularization.\n\n\"Major Principles of the Constitution\"\n\nThe constitution (with 177 Articles) establishes the structure of the Republic\nwithin the following principles:\n\n- The Turkish Republic is a democratic, secular and social state governed by \n law;\n- It should be governed to maintain public peace, national solidarity, justice,\n human rights and the objectives of Ataturk;\n- The language of the State is Turkish;\n- Sovereignty is vested in the nation without any conditions or restrictions.\n Sovereignty is exercised by organizations authorized by the nation;\n- Legislative power is carried by the Parliament elected by the nation. This\n power cannot be delegated (transferred) to any one else;\n- Executive power is exercised by the President, and Council of Ministers;\n- Judicial power is exercised by the independent courts on behalf of the\n Turkish nation;\n- All individuals are equal, irrespective of language, race, religion, color,\n sex, or political beliefs;\n- Laws cannot be contradict those principles stated in the Constitution.\n\n\"Structure of the State\"\n\nIn accordance with the Constitution, the structure of the state is based on the\nprinciple of \"division of power\" to create a balanced and self-controlled\nsystem. The power is divided into \"legislative power,\" \"executive power,\" and\n\"judicial power,\" balanced to secure freedoms and powers to control each\nother (self-control).\n\n A. Legislative Power:\n\n The \"Turkish Grand National Assembly\" is a parliament with one House, elected\n by the nation for a term of five years to exercise legislative power on\n behalf of the nation. The basic functions of this Assembly are:\n\n - to adopt, to amend, or to repeal laws;\n - to approve or to dismiss the Council of Ministers;\n - to supervise and to question Ministers or the Council of Ministers;\n - to debate, to amend and to approve annual budgets;\n - to ratify international agreements;\n - to grant amnesty or pardons.\n\n Members of Parliament do not have any liability for their words (either oral\n or written) during the course of their legislative duties. The country is\n divided into constituencies. The number of representatives of each is\n calculated according to its population. Every Turkish citizen over the age\n of twenty-one can vote.\n\n Elections are supervised by the \"Supreme Council of Elections,\" which solves\n all disputes or appeals. In each province, the local \"Board of Election\"\n runs and controls the election under the supervision and guidelines of the\n Supreme Council. Members of the Council and Boards are elected among \n independent judges.\n\n B. Executive Power:\n\n The President of the Republic is the Head of State (not the head of government\n as in the Unites States). The main functions of the President are:\n\n - to represent the State and the Country;\n - to insure the implementation of the Constitution;\n - to coordinate legislative, judicial and executive functions;\n - act as the Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces;\n - to ratify laws and government decrees.\n \n The President is elected by the Grand National Assembly for a period of seven\n years. The President may ratify or return the laws for a second debate, may \n call for a referendum.\n\n Executive power is exercised by the \"Council of Ministers,\" headed by the\n Prime Minister. The Prime Minister is appointed by the President from the\n members of Parliament. The Prime Minister names the Ministers for approval\n by the President. The new Government (Council of Ministers) reads their\n program at the Parliament and the vote of confidence follows. There are 21 (?)\n Ministers in the Council.\n\n Ministers and other members of the administration can be sued in independent\n \"administrative\" courts for their misuse of power, administrative errors or\n functions against any law.\n\n C. Judicial Power:\n\n Judicial power is exercised by independent courts. No authority or power can\n instruct the judges or public prosecutors of the courts. These cannot be \n discharged, replaced or retired by executive authorities except for the\n reasons clearly stated by the appropriate laws. There are three categories\n of courts in the Turkish judiciary system:\n\n - Courts of justice deal with legal, commercial and criminal cases. The \n decisions of these courts may be reviewed by the supreme court of justice\n upon the appeal of the parties involved.\n - The decisions or functions of the executive power (including the Prime\n Minister and Ministers or any governmental department) can be appealed in\n administrative courts if these functions or decisions are against the law.\n The decisions of these administrative courts may also be reviewed by the\n high administrative court.\n\n The laws and decisions of the Grand National Assembly can be examined by the\n \"Constitutional Court\" if they contradict the Constitution. If found\n contradictory, this court may cancel the decisions or laws of the Parliament.\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "Source: \"Men Are Like That\" by Leonard Ramsden Hartill. The Bobbs-Merrill\nCompany, Indianapolis (1926). (305 pages). \n(Memoirs of an Armenian officer who participated in the genocide of 2.5 \n million Muslim people)\n\n\np. 133 (first paragraph)\n\n\"In this movement we took with us three thousand Turkish soldiers who\n had been captured by the Russians and left on our hands when the Russians\n abandoned the struggle. During our retreat to Karaklis two thousand of\n these poor devils were cruelly put to death. I was sickened by the\n brutality displayed, but could not make any effective protest. Some,\n mercifully, were shot. Many of them were burned to death. The method\n employed was to put a quantity of straw into a hut, and then after\n crowding the hut with Turks, set fire to the straw.\"\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "ac = In <9304202017@zuma.UUCP> sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)\npl = linden@positive.Eng.Sun.COM (Peter van der Linden)\n\npl: 1. So, did the Turks kill the Armenians?\n\nac: So, did the Jews kill the Germans? \nac: You even make Armenians laugh.\n\nac: \"An appropriate analogy with the Jewish Holocaust might be the\nac: systematic extermination of the entire Muslim population of \nac: the independent republic of Armenia which consisted of at \nac: least 30-40 percent of the population of that republic. The \nac: memoirs of an Armenian army officer who participated in and \nac: eye-witnessed these atrocities was published in the U.S. in\nac: 1926 with the title 'Men Are Like That.' Other references abound.\"\n\nTypical Mutlu. PvdL asks if X happened, the response is that Y\nhappened. Even if we grant that the Armenians *did* do what Cosar\naccuses them of doing, this has no bearing on whether the Turks did\nwhat they are accused of.\n\nWhile I can understand how an AI could be this stupid, I\ncan't understand how a human could be such a moron as to either let\nsuch an AI run amok or to compose such pointless messages himself.\n\nI do not expect any followup to this article from Argic to do anything\nto alleviate my puzzlement. But maybe I'll see a new line from his\nlist of insults.\n", "Turkish Historical Revision in auto-scribal residue <9305091835@zuma.UUCP>, \nsera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic), posted the following:\n\n[(*] Source: \"Adventures in the Near East\" by A. Rawlinson, Jonathan Cape, \n[(*] 30 Bedford Square, London, 1934 (First published 1923) (287 pages).\n[(*] (Memoirs of a British officer who witnessed the Armenian genocide of 2.5 \n[(*] million Muslim people)\n\nBull!\n\n[(*] p. 184 (second paragraph)\n[(*]\n[(*] \"I had received further very definite information of horrors that\n[(*] had been committed by the Armenian soldiery in Kars Plain, and as \n[(*] I had been able to judge of their want of discipline by their \n[(*] treatment of my own detached parties, I had wired to Tiflis from \n[(*] Zivin that 'in the interests of humanity the Armenians should not \n[(*] be left in independent command of the Moslem population, as, their \n[(*] troops being without discipline and not under effective control, \n[(*] atrocities were constantly being committed, for which we should \n[(*] with justice eventually be held to be morally responsible'.\"\n\nOn page 184 in my copy of the Rawlinson book, we find following facsimile.\nNote the word Armenian doesn't even appear!\n\n184 ADVENTURES IN THE NEAR EAST\n\ndisposal for our journey, I foresaw it would have to become\nour headquarters for a considerable time, and therefore went\nto some trouble to make it habitable. We had a most peculiar\nlittle locomotive, originally built in America for the Russian\nGovernment, adapted to burn either wood or oil; one covered\ntruck as men's quarters; one similar, which I fitted up for my-\nself and a railway officer; and also a truck to carry wood, three\ncars being the utmost our small engine could pull. With this\nsmall outfit we started, rumours of all kinds reaching us before\nour departure indicating that the whole situation was rapidly\ncoming to a head, it being evident that the Turks were becoming~\nmore and more restive in the face of the inexplicable delay of\nthe Allies in reaching any definite decision with regard to the\nfuture.\n\nTravelling on this little \"war-time\" railway was indeed an\nexperience, and it was necessary to carry a \"gauge,\" and to\ntest the rails with it frequently, for in many places, owing to\nthe sinking of the embankments and the washing away of the\nballast, the rails required rectification before we were able to\nget our train over, even at a foot pace; each bridge also re-\nquired elaborate examination before adventuring the train upon\nit, and eventually we were obliged to carry large baulks of tim-\nber to temporarily shore up many of the bridges and culverts\nwhilst we passed over them.\n\nUnder these circumstances it may be imagined that our prog-\nress was by no means rapid, and as we had frequently to halt\nalso to replenish our supply of wood fuel, we considered we\nhad achieved wonders when, on the evening of the second day,\n60 hours and 70 miles out from Erzeroum, we finally entered the\ngorge of the mountains where we understood our worst troubles\nto lie. This is the same gorge into which the road from\nErzeroum to Kars descends from the foot-hills to cross the\nfrontier; the railway, however, follows the main Aras River val-\nley till the frontier gorge enters it, whilst the road cuts off the\ncorner and joins the rail again at the frontier post of Zivin,\nsome 15 miles from the main valley.\n\nSoon after entering the gorge, we were confronted by the\nfirst serious fall of rock--about 2,000 tons having fallen from\nthe cliff face and entirely obliterated the railway track. Here,\ntherefore, we halted, and, sending our engine back, prepared to\n\n", "\n\nAh, those poor genocide apologists. Such quaintly charming habits of the\nArmenian barbarism and fascism. No swinging of lies will be enough to cover \nup the crimes of the x-Soviet Armenian Government. Not a chance. Now let \nthe Kurdish scholars speak for themselves.\n\nSource: Hassan Arfa, \"The Kurds,\" (London, 1968), pp. 25-26.\n\n \"When the Russian armies invaded Turkey after the Sarikamish disaster \n of 1914, their columns were preceded by battalions of irregular \n Armenian volunteers, both from the Caucasus and from Turkey. One of \n these was commanded by a certain Andranik, a blood-thirsty adventurer.\n These Armenian volunteers committed all kinds of excesses, more\n than six hundred thousand Kurds being killed between 1915 and 1916 in \n the eastern vilayets of Turkey.\"\n\nSources: (The Ottoman State, the Ministry of War), \"Islam Ahalinin \nDucar Olduklari Mezalim Hakkinda Vesaike Mustenid Malumat,\" (Istanbul, 1918). \nThe French version: \"Documents Relatifs aux Atrocites Commises par les Armeniens\nsur la Population Musulmane,\" (Istanbul, 1919). In the Latin script: H. K.\nTurkozu, ed., \"Osmanli ve Sovyet Belgeleriyle Ermeni Mezalimi,\" (Ankara,\n1982). In addition: Z. Basar, ed., \"Ermenilerden Gorduklerimiz,\" (Ankara,\n1974) and, edited by the same author, \"Ermeniler Hakkinda Makaleler -\nDerlemeler,\" (Ankara, 1978). \"Askeri Tarih Belgeleri ...,\" Vol. 32, 83\n(December 1983), document numbered 1881.\n\"Askeri Tarih Belgeleri ....,\" Vol. 31, 81 (December 1982), document\n numbered 1869.\n\n\"Those who were capable of fighting were taken away at the very beginning\n with the excuse of forced labor in road construction, they were taken\n in the direction of Sarikamis and annihilated. When the Russian army\n withdrew, a part of the remaining people was destroyed in Armenian\n massacres and cruelties: they were thrown into wells, they were locked\n in houses and burned down, they were killed with bayonets and swords, in places\n selected as butchering spots, their bellies were torn open, their lungs\n were pulled out, and girls and women were hanged by their hair after\n being subjected to every conceivable abominable act. A very small part \n of the people who were spared these abominations far worse than the\n cruelty of the inquisition resembled living dead and were suffering\n from temporary insanity because of the dire poverty they had lived\n in and because of the frightful experiences they had been subjected to.\n Including women and children, such persons discovered so far do not\n exceed one thousand five hundred in Erzincan and thirty thousand in\n Erzurum. All the fields in Erzincan and Erzurum are untilled, everything\n that the people had has been taken away from them, and we found them\n in a destitute situation. At the present time, the people are subsisting\n on some food they obtained, impelled by starvation, from Russian storages\n left behind after their occupation of this area.\"\n \n\nSource: \"Adventures in the Near East\" by A. Rawlinson, Jonathan Cape, \n30 Bedford Square, London, 1934 (First published 1923) (287 pages).\n(Memoirs of a British officer who witnessed the Armenian genocide of 2.5 \n million Muslim people)\n\np. 184 (second paragraph)\n\n \"I had received further very definite information of horrors that\n had been committed by the Armenian soldiery in Kars Plain, and as \n I had been able to judge of their want of discipline by their \n treatment of my own detached parties, I had wired to Tiflis from \n Zivin that 'in the interests of humanity the Armenians should not \n be left in independent command of the Moslem population, as, their \n troops being without discipline and not under effective control, \n atrocities were constantly being committed, for which we should \n with justice eventually be held to be morally responsible'.\"\n\np. 177 (third paragraph)\n\n \"Armenian troops, who, having pillaged and destroyed all the\n Moslem villages in the plain....\"\n\n \"Caravans of refugees were in the meanwhile constantly arriving from the\n plain, from which the whole Moslem population was fleeing with as much of\n their personal property as they could transport, seeking to obtain security\n and protection...\"\n\np. 178 (first paragraph)\n\n \"In those Moslem villages in the plain below which had been searched \n for arms by the Armenians everything had been taken under the cloak of \n such search, and not only had many Moslems been killed, but horrible \n tortures had been inflicted in the endeavour to obtain information as \n to where valuables had been hidden, of which the Armenians were aware \n of the existence, although they had been unable to find them.\"\n\np. 181 (first paragraph)\n\n \"the Armenians from the plain were attacking the Kurdish line with \n artillery, with probably a large force in support.\"\n\np. 175 (first paragraph)\n\n \"The arrival of this British brigade was followed by the announcement\n that Kars Province had been allotted by the Supreme Council of the\n Allies to the Armenians, and that announcement having been made, the\n British troops were then completely withdrawn, and Armenian occupation\n commenced. Hence all the trouble; for the Armenians at once commenced\n the wholesale robbery and persecution of the Muslem population on the\n pretext that it was necessary forcibly to deprive them of their arms.\n In the portion of the province which lies in the plains they were able\n to carry out their purpose, and the manner in which this was done will\n be referred to in due course.\"\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "henrik] Let me clearify Mr. Turkish;\nhenrik] ARMENIA is NOT getting \"itchy\". SHE is simply LETTING the WORLD KNOW \nhenrik] that SHE WILL NO LONGER sit there QUIET and LET TURKS get away with \nhenrik] their FAMOUS tricks. Armenians DO REMEMBER of the TURKISH invasion \nhenrik] of the Greek island of CYPRESS WHILE the world simply WATCHED. \n\nOnur Yalcin] It is more appropriate to address netters with their names as \nOnur Yalcin] they appear in their signatures (I failed to do so since you did \nOnur Yalcin] not bother to sign your posting). Not only because it is the \nOnur Yalcin] polite thing to do, but also to avoid addressing ladies with \nOnur Yalcin] \"Mr.\", as you have done.\n\n\tFine. Please, accept my opology !\n\nOnur Yalcin] Secondly, the island of which the name is more correctly spelled \nOnur Yalcin] as Cyprus has never been Greek, but rather, it has been home to \nOnur Yalcin] a bi-communal society formed of Greeks and Turks. It seems that \n ^^^^^^^^^^^\nOnur Yalcin] you know as little about the history and the demography of the \nOnur Yalcin] island, as you know about the essence of Turkey's \nOnur Yalcin] military intervention to it under international agreements.\n\n\tbi-communal society ? Then why DID NOT Greece INVADE CYPRUS ? \n\t\nOnur Yalcin] Be that as it may, an analogy between an act of occupation in \nOnur Yalcin] history and what is going on today on Azerbaijani land, can only \nOnur Yalcin] be drawn with the expansionist policy that Armenia is now pursuing.\n\n\tBuch of CRAP and you know it. Nagarno-Karabagh has ALWAYS been PART \n of ARMENIA and it was STALIN who GAVE IT to the AZERIS. Go back and\n review the HISTORY. \n\n\tThe Armenians in Nagarno-Karabagh are simply DEFENDING their RIGHTS\n to keep their homeland and it is the AZERIS that are INVADING their \n teritory.\n\nOnur Yalcin] But, I could agree that it is not for us to issue diagnoses to \nOnur Yalcin] the political conduct of countries, and promulgate them in such \nOnur Yalcin] terminology as \"itchy-bitchy\"... \n\n I was not the one that STATED IT. ", "\n\n\n\n\tFinally you said what you dream about. Mediterranean???? That was new....\n\tThe area will be \"greater\" after some years, like your \"holocaust\" numbers......\n\n\n\n\n\t\t*****\n\tIs't July in USA now????? Here in Sweden it's April and still cold.\n\tOr have you changed your calendar???\n\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t ****************\n\t\t\t\t\t\t ******************\n\t\t\t ***************\n\n\n\tNOTHING OF THE MENTIONED IS TRUE, BUT LET SAY IT's TRUE.\n\t\n\tSHALL THE AZERI WOMEN AND CHILDREN GOING TO PAY THE PRICE WITH\n\t\t\t\t\t\t **************\n\tBEING RAPED, KILLED AND TORTURED BY THE ARMENIANS??????????\n\t\n\tHAVE YOU HEARDED SOMETHING CALLED: \"GENEVA CONVENTION\"???????\n\tYOU FACIST!!!!!\n\n\n\n\tOhhh i forgot, this is how Armenians fight, nobody has forgot\n\tyou killings, rapings and torture against the Kurds and Turks once\n\tupon a time!\n \n \n\n\nOhhhh so swedish RedCross workers do lie they too? What ever you say\n\"regional killer\", if you don't like the person then shoot him that's your policy.....l\n\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ti\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ti\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ti\n\tConfused?????\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ti\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ti\n Search Turkish planes? You don't know what you are talking about.\ti\n Turkey's government has announced that it's giving weapons <-----------i\n to Azerbadjan since Armenia started to attack Azerbadjan\t\t\n it self, not the Karabag province. So why search a plane for weapons\t\n since it's content is announced to be weapons? \n\n\tIf there is one that's confused then that's you! We have the right (and we do)\n\tto give weapons to the Azeris, since Armenians started the fight in Azerbadjan!\n \n\n\n\tShoot down with what? Armenian bread and butter? Or the arms and personel \n\tof the Russian army?\n\n\n", "Osinski):\nyears.\ncity\n\nAre you one of those people who were born when Istanbul was called \nKonstantinopolis? I don't think so! If those people use it because\nthey are used to do so, then I understand. But open any map\ntoday (except a few that try to be political) you will see that the name \nof the city is printed as Istanbul. So, don't try to give\nany arguments to using Konstantinopolis except to cause some\nflames, to make some political statement. \n\n\n--\nTankut Atan\ntankut@iastate.edu", "\n\nPoor 'Poly'. I see you're preparing the groundwork for yet another \nretreat from your 'Arromdian-ASALA/SDPA/ARF' claims. \n\n\nJust love it. If that does ever happen, look out the window and see\nif there is a non-fascist/Nazi x-Soviet Armenian Government in the East. \nBy the way, your ignorance on the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslim \npeople is hardly characteristic of most 'Arromdians'. \n\n\nSource: K. S. Papazian, \"Patriotism Perverted,\" Baikar Press, Boston, 1934.\n\npp. 17-18.\n\n\"It seems that terrorism against their own co-nationals has been a prominent\n part of the revolutionary activities of the Dashnag leaders of the Caucasus.\n Organized to fight the Turks, these chieftains have been more successful\n in their fight against their Armenian opponents in Turkey, and the Caucasus,\n very often defenseless and innocent.\"\n\np. 38.\n\n\"The fact remains, however, that the leaders of the Turkish Armenian section\n of the Dashnagtzoutune did not carry out their promise of loyalty to the\n Turkish cause when the Turks entered the war...and a call was sent for \n Armenian volunteers to fight the Turks on the Caucasian front.\"\n\np. 38.\n\n\"Thousands of Armenians from all over the world, flocked to the standards of\n such famous fighters as Antranik, Kery, Dro, etc. The Armenian volunteer\n regiments rendered valuable service to the Russian Army in the years of\n 1914-15-16.\"\n\nGot a map? Got a minute?\n\nSource #1: McCarthy, J., \"Muslims and Minorities, The Population of Ottoman \n Anatolia and the End of the Empire,\" New York University Press, \n New York, 1983, pp. 133-144.\n\nSource #2: Hovannisian, Richard G., \"Armenia on the Road to Independence,\n 1918. University of California Press (Berkeley and Los Angeles),\n 1967, p. 13.\n\nNow where is your non-existent list of scholars and publicly available \nscholarly sources; here is mine. What an 'Arromdian'... \n\n\n SOME OF THE REFERENCES FROM EMINENT AUTHORS IN THE FIELD OF MIDDLE-EASTERN\n HISTORY AND EYEWITNESSES OF THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE OF 2.5 MILLION MUSLIMS\n\n1. \"The Armenian Revolutionary Movement\" by Louise Nalbandian,\n University of California Press, Berkeley, Los Angeles, 1975\n\n2. \"Diplomacy of Imperialism 1890-1902\" by William I. Lenger, Professor\n of History, Harward University, Boston, Alfred A. Knopt, New York, 1951\n\n3. \"Turkey in Europe\" by Sir Charles Elliot, \n Edward & Arnold, London, 1900\n\n4. \"The Chatnam House Version and Other Middle-Eastern Studies\" by\n Elie Kedouri, Praeger Publishers, New York, Washington, 1972\n\n5. \"The Rising Crescent\" by Ernest Jackh,\n Farrar & Reinhart, Inc., New York & Toronto, 1944\n\n6. \"Spiritual and Political Evolutions in Islam\" by Felix Valyi,\n Mogan, Paul, Trench & Truebner & Co., London, 1925\n\n7. \"The Struggle for Power in Moslem Asia\" by E. Alexander Powell,\n The Century Co., New York, London, 1924\n\n8. \"Struggle for Transcaucasia\" by Feruz Kazemzadeh,\n Yale University Press, New Haven, Conn., 1951\n\n9. \"History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey\" (2 volumes) by\n Stanford J. Shaw, Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, New York,\n Melbourne, 1977\n\n10.\"The Western Question in Greece and Turkey\" by Arnold J. Toynbee,\n Constable & Co., Ltd., London, Bombay & Sydney, 1922\n\n11.\"The Caliph's Last Heritage\" by Sir Mark Sykes,\n Macmillan & Co., London, 1915\n\n12.\"Men Are Like That\" by Leonard A. Hartill,\n Bobbs Co., Indianapolis, 1928\n\n13.\"Adventures in the Near East, 1918-22\" by A. Rawlinson,\n Dodd, Meade & Co., 1925\n\n14.\"World Alive, A Personal Story\" by Robert Dunn,\n Crown Publishers, Inc., New York, 1952\n\n15.\"From Sardarapat to Serves and Lousanne\" by Avetis Aharonian,\n The Armenian Review Magazine, Volume 15 (Fall 1962) through 17 \n (Spring 1964)\n\n16.\"Armenia on the Road to Independence\" by Richard G. Hovanessian,\n University of California Press, Berkeley, California, 1967\n\n17.\"The Rebirth of Turkey\" by Clair Price,\n Thomas Seltzer, New York, 1923\n\n18.\"Caucasian Battlefields\" by W. B. Allen & Paul Muratoff,\n Cambridge, 1953\n\n19.\"Partition of Turkey\" by Harry N. Howard,\n H. Fertig, New York, 1966\n \n20.\"The King-Crane Commission\" by Harry N. Howard,\n Beirut, 1963\n\n21.\"United States Policy and Partition of Turkey\" by Laurence Evans,\n John Hopkins University Press, Baltimore, 1965\n\n22.\"British Documents Related to Turkish War of Independence\" by Gothard \n Jaeschke\n \n1. Neside Kerem Demir, \"Bir Sehid Anasina Tarihin Soyledikleri: \n Turkiye'nin Ermeni Meselesi,\" Hulbe Basim ve Yayin T.A.S., \n Ankara, 1982. (Ingilizce Birinci Baski: 1980, \"The Armenian \n Question in Turkey\")\n\n2. Veysel Eroglu, \"Ermeni Mezalimi,\" Sebil Yayinevi, Istanbul, 1978.\n\n3. A. Alper Gazigiray, \"Osmanlilardan Gunumuze Kadar Vesikalarla Ermeni\n Teroru'nun Kaynaklari,\" Gozen Kitabevi, Istanbul, 1982.\n\n4. Dr. Kirzioglu M. Fahrettin, \"Kars Ili ve Cevresinde Ermeni Mezalimi,\"\n Kardes Matbaasi, Ankara, 1970. \n\nT.C. Basbakanlik Osmanli Arsivi, Babiali, Istanbul:\n\na) Yildiz Esas Evraki\nb) Yildiz Perakende\nc) Irade Defterleri\nd) Cemaat-i Gayr-i Muslime Defterleri\ne) Meclisi Vukela Mazbatalari\nf) Dahiliye Nezareti, Kalem-i Mahsus Dosyalari\ng) Dahiliye Nezareti, Sifre Defterleri\nh) Babiali Evrak Odasi: Siyasi Kartonlar\ni) Babiali Evrak Odasi: Muhimme Kartonlari\n\nT.C. Disisleri Bakanligi, Hazine-i Evrak, Defterdarlik \n\na) Harb-i Umumi\nb) Muteferrik Kartonlar\n\nBritish Archives:\n\na) Parliamentary Papers (Hansard): Commons/Lords\nb) Foreign Office: Confidential Print: Various Collections\nc) Foreign Office: 424/239-253: Turkey: Correspondence - Annual Reports\nd) Foreign Office: 608\ne) Foreign Office: 371, Political Intelligence: General Correspondence\nf) Foreign Office: 800/240, Ryan Papers\ng) Foreign Office: 800/151, Curzon Papers\nh) Foreign Office: 839: The Eastern Conference: Lausanne. 53 files\n\nIndia Office Records and Library, Blackfriars Road, London.\n\na) L/Political and Security/10/851-855 (five boxes), \"Turkey: Treaty of\n Peace: 1918-1923\"\nb) L/P & S/10/1031, \"Near East: Turkey and Greece: Lausanne Conference,\n 1921-1923\"\nc) L/P & S/11/154\nd) L/P & S/11/1031\n\nFrench Archives\n\nArchives du ministere des Affaires entrangeres, Quai d'Orsay, Paris.\n\na) Documents Diplomatiques: Affaires Armeniens: 1895-1914 Collections\nb) Guerre: 1914-1918: Turquie: Legion d'Orient.\nc) Levant, 1918-1929: Armenie.\n\n\nOfficial Publications, Published Documents, Diplomatic Correspondence,\nAgreements, Minutes and Others\n\nA. Turkey (The Ottoman Empire and The Republic of Turkey)\n\nAkarli, E. (ed.); \"Belgelerle Tanzimat,\" (istanbul, 1978).\n(Gn. Kur., ATASE); \"Askeri Tarih Belgeleri Dergisi,\" V. XXXI (81),\n(Dec. 1982).\n----; \"Askeri Tarih Belgeleri Dergisi,\" V. XXXII (83),\n(Dec. 1983).\nHocaoglu, M. (ed.); \"Ittihad-i Anasir-i Osmaniye Heyeti Nizamnamesi,\"\n(Istanbul, 1912).\nMeray, S. L. (trans./ed.) \"Lozan Baris Konferansi: Tutanaklar-Belgeler,\"\n(Ankara, 1978), 2 vols.\nMeray, S. L./O. Olcay (ed.); \"Osmanli Imparatorlugu'nun Cokus Belgeleri;\nMondros Birakismasi, Sevr Andlasmasi, Ilgili Belgeler,\" (Ankara, 1977).\n(Osmanli Devleti, Dahiliye Nezareti); \"Aspirations et Agissements \nRevolutionnaires des Comites Armeniens avant et apres la proclamation\nde la Constitution Ottomane,\" (Istanbul, 1917).\n----; \"Ermeni Komitelerinin Amal ve Hareket-i Ihtilaliyesi: Ilan-i\nMesrutiyetten Evvel ve Sonra,\" (Istanbul, 1916).\n----; \"Idare-i Umumiye ve Vilayet Kanunu,\" (Istanbul, 1913).\n----; \"Muharrerat-i Umumiye Mecmuasi, V. I (Istanbul, 1914).\n----; \"Muharrerat-i Umumiye Mecmuasi, V. II (Istanbul, 1915).\n----; \"Muharrerat-i Umumiye Mecmuasi, V. III (Istanbul, 1916).\n----; \"Muharrerat-i Umumiye Mecmuasi, V. IV (Istanbul, 1917).\n(Osmanli Devleti, Hariciye Nezareti); \"Imtiyazat-i Ecnebiyye'nin\nLagvindan Dolayi Memurine Teblig Olunacak Talimatname,\" (Istanbul, 1915).\n(Osmanli Devleti, Harbiye Nezareti); \"Islam Ahalinin Ducar Olduklari\nMezalim Hakkinda Vesaike Mustenid Malumat,\" (Istanbul, 1919).\n----; (IV. Ordu) \"Aliye Divan-i Harbi Orfisinde Tedkik Olunan Mesele-yi\nSiyasiye Hakkinda Izahat,\" (Istanbul, 1916).\nTurkozu, H. K. (ed.); \"Osmanli ve Sovyet Belgeleriyle Ermeni Mezalimi,\"\n(Ankara, 1982).\n----; \"Turkiye Buyuk Millet Meclisi Gizli Celse Zabitlari,\" (Ankara, 1985),\n4 vols.\n\nRussia\n\nAdamof, E. E. (ed.); \"Sovyet Devlet Arsivi Belgeleriyle Anadolu'nun \nTaksimi Plani,\" (tran. H. Rahmi, ed. H. Mutlucag), (Istanbul, 1972).\n\nAltinay, A. R.; \"Iki Komite - Iki Kital,\" (Istanbul, 1919).\n----; \"Kafkas Yollarinda Hatiralar ve Tahassusler,\" (Istanbul, 1919).\n----; \"Turkiye'de Katolik Propagandasi,\" Turk tarihi Encumeni Mecmuasi,\nV. XIV/82-5 (Sept. 1924).\nAsaf Muammer; \"Harb ve Mesulleri,\" (Istanbul, 1918).\nAkboy, C.; \"Birinci Dunya Harbinde Turk Harbi, V. I: Osmanli Imparatorlugu'nun\nSiyasi ve Askeri Hazirliklari ve Harbe Girisi,\" (Gn. Kur., Ankara, 1970).\nAkgun, S.; \"General Harbord'un Anadolu Gezisi ve (Ermeni Meselesi'ne Dair)\nRaporu: Kurtulus Savasi Baslangicinda,\" (Istanbul, 1981).\nAkin, I.; \"Turk Devrim Tarihi,\" (Istanbul, 1983).\nAksin, S.; \"Jon Turkler ve Ittihad ve Terakki,\" (Istanbul, 1976).\nBasar, Z. (ed.);\"Ermenilerden Gorduklerimiz,\" (Ankara, 1974).\n----; \"Ermeniler Hakkinda Makaleler - Derlemeler,\" (Ankara, 1978).\nBelen, F.; \"Birinci Dunya Harbinde Turk Harbi,\" (Ankara, 1964).\nDeliorman, A.; \"Turklere Karsi Ermeni Komitecileri,\" (Istanbul, 1980).\nEge, N. N. (ed.); \"Prens Sabahaddin: Hayati ve Ilmi Mudafaalari,\"\n(Istanbul, 1977).\nErcikan, A.; \"Ermenilerin Bizans ve Osmanli Imparatorluklarindaki Rolleri,\"\n(Ankara, 1949).\nGurun, K.; 'Ermeni Sorunu yahut bir sorun nasil yaratilir?', \"Turk Tarihinde\nErmeniler Sempozyumu,\" (Izmir, 1983).\nHocaoglu, M.; \"Arsiv Vesikalariyla Tarihte Ermeni Mezalimi ve Ermeniler,\"\n(Istanbul, 1976).\nKaral, E. S.; \"Osmanli Tarihi,\" V. V (1983, 4th ed.); V. VI (1976, 2nd ed.);\nV. VII (1977, 2nd ed.); V. VIII (1983, 2nd ed.) Ankara.\nKurat, Y. T.; \"Osmanli Imparatorlugu'nun Paylasilmasi,\" (Ankara, 1976).\nOrel, S./S. Yuca; \"Ermenilerce Talat Pasa'ya Atfedilen Telgraflarin\nIcyuzu,\" (Ankara, 1983). [Also in English translation.]\nAhmad, F.; \"The Young Turks: The Committee of Union and Progress in\nTurkish Politics,\" (Oxford, 1969).\n\n\nDuring the First World War and the ensuing years - 1914-1920, \nthe Armenian Dictatorship through a premeditated and systematic \ngenocide, tried to complete its centuries-old policy of \nannihilation against the Turks and Kurds by savagely murdering \n2.5 million Muslims and deporting the rest from their 1,000 year \nhomeland.\n\nThe attempt at genocide is justly regarded as the first instance\nof Genocide in the 20th Century acted upon an entire people.\nThis event is incontrovertibly proven by historians, government\nand international political leaders, such as U.S. Ambassador Mark \nBristol, William Langer, Ambassador Layard, James Barton, Stanford \nShaw, Arthur Chester, John Dewey, Robert Dunn, Papazian, Nalbandian, \nOhanus Appressian, Jorge Blanco Villalta, General Nikolayef, General \nBolkovitinof, General Prjevalski, General Odiselidze, Meguerditche, \nKazimir, Motayef, Twerdokhlebof, General Hamelin, Rawlinson, Avetis\nAharonian, Dr. Stephan Eshnanie, Varandian, General Bronsart, Arfa,\nDr. Hamlin, Boghos Nubar, Sarkis Atamian, Katchaznouni, Rachel \nBortnick, Halide Edip, McCarthy, W. B. Allen, Paul Muratoff and many \nothers.\n\nJ. C. Hurewitz, Professor of Government Emeritus, Former Director of\nthe Middle East Institute (1971-1984), Columbia University.\n\nBernard Lewis, Cleveland E. Dodge Professor of Near Eastern History,\nPrinceton University.\n\nHalil Inalcik, University Professor of Ottoman History & Member of\nthe American Academy of Arts & Sciences, University of Chicago.\n\nPeter Golden, Professor of History, Rutgers University, Newark.\n\nStanford Shaw, Professor of History, University of California at\nLos Angeles.\n\nThomas Naff, Professor of History & Director, Middle East Research\nInstitute, University of Pennsylvania.\n\nRonald Jennings, Associate Professor of History & Asian Studies,\nUniversity of Illinois.\n\nHoward Reed, Professor of History, University of Connecticut.\n\nDankwart Rustow, Distinguished University Professor of Political\nScience, City University Graduate School, New York.\n\nJohn Woods, Associate Professor of Middle Eastern History, \nUniversity of Chicago.\n\nJohn Masson Smith, Jr., Professor of History, University of\nCalifornia at Berkeley.\n\nAlan Fisher, Professor of History, Michigan State University.\n\nAvigdor Levy, Professor of History, Brandeis University.\n\nAndreas G. E. Bodrogligetti, Professor of History, University of California\nat Los Angeles.\n\nKathleen Burrill, Associate Professor of Turkish Studies, Columbia University.\n\nRoderic Davison, Professor of History, George Washington University.\n\nWalter Denny, Professor of History, University of Massachusetts.\n\nCaesar Farah, Professor of History, University of Minnesota.\n\nTom Goodrich, Professor of History, Indiana University of Pennsylvania.\n\nTibor Halasi-Kun, Professor Emeritus of Turkish Studies, Columbia University.\n\nJustin McCarthy, Professor of History, University of Louisville.\n\nJon Mandaville, Professor of History, Portland State University (Oregon).\n\nRobert Olson, Professor of History, University of Kentucky.\n\nMadeline Zilfi, Professor of History, University of Maryland.\n\nJames Stewart-Robinson, Professor of Turkish Studies, University of Michigan.\n\n.......so the list goes on and on and on.....\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nOwieneramus. Always has to stick his 'ASALA/SDPA/ARF' made nose into \nevery discussion with non-points and lies. Well, still anxiously\nawaiting...\n\n\nSource: Cemal Kutay, \"Ottoman Empire,\" vol. II., p. 188. \n\n\"The atrocities and massacres which have been committed for a long time\n against the Muslim population within the Armenian Republic have been \n confirmed with very accurate information, and the observations made by\n Rawlinson, the British representative in Erzurum, have confirmed that\n these atrocities are being committed by the Armenians. The United States\n delegation of General Harbord has seen the thousands of refugees who came \n to take refuge with Kazim Karabekir's soldiers, hungry and miserable, \n their children and wives, their properties destroyed, and the delegation\n was a witness to the cruelties. Many Muslim villages have been destroyed\n by the soldiers of Armenian troops armed with cannons and machine guns\n before the eyes of Karabekir's troops and the people. When it was hoped\n that this operation would end, unfortunately since the beginning of \n February the cruelties inflicted on the Muslim population of the region\n of Shuraghel, Akpazar, Zarshad, and Childir have increased. According\n to documented information, 28 Muslim villages have been destroyed in the\n aforementioned region, more than 2,000 people have been slaughtered,\n many possessions and livestock have been seized, young Muslim women\n have been taken to Kars and Gumru, thousands of women and children who\n were able to flee their villages were beaten, raped and massacred in the\n mountains, and this aggression against the properties, lives, chastity \n and honour of the Muslims continued. It was the responsibility of the\n Armenian Government that the cruelties and massacres be stopped in order \n to alleviate the tensions of Muslim public opinion due to the atrocities \n committed by the Armenians, that the possessions taken from the Muslims\n be returned and that indemnities be paid, that the properties, lives,\n and honour of the Muslims be protected.\"\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "there you go the greeks have been trying for over a year, even though\nmr. mitsotakis was threatening the EC that if Macedonia was recognized\nthat the honourable papandreou would be back...\n\n\nwell i guess the europeans pulled the plug eh ..? theis is just one\nother example about the corruptness and the \"perversity\" of greek\nforeign policy objectives...\n\npity to those who have to live under the greek flag with \"these\"\npolitical decision-makers...\n\nMORE RECOGNITION FOR MACEDONIA. Belgium, Germany, and Italy joined\nDenmark on 15 April in recognizing the Republic of Macedonia, AFP\nreports. Each is an EC member state. Greece, which has blocked EC\nrecognition of Macedonia, noted that such recognition \"does not\nfacilitate\" negotiations between Athens and Skopje now underway in\nNew York. Duncan Perry, RFE/RL, Inc.\n\n\nthe day will come when reuters will write \"despite lengthy negotiations\nand numerous attempts to reunite the island THE TURKISH REPUBLIC\nOF NORTHERN CYPRUS \" was recognized by...\n", "\n: Pardon me? Here is to an amherst-clown:\n: \n: \"Your three chiefs, Dro, Hamazasp and Kulkhandanian are the ringleaders\n: of the bands which have destroyed Tartar villages and have staged \n: massacres in Zangezour, Surmali, Etchmiadzin, and Zangibasar. This is\n: intolerable.\n\n\nWere you expecting a different response? Here is another one:\n\nSource: K. S. Papazian, \"Patriotism Perverted,\" Baikar Press, Boston, 1934, \n (73 pages with Appendix).\n\np. 25 (third paragraph)\n\n\"Some real fighters sprang up from among the people, who struck terror\n into the hearts of the Turks.\"\n\n\n\"Within a few months after the war began, these Armenian guerrilla\n forces, operating in close coordination with the Russians, were\n savagely attacking Turkish cities, towns and villages in the east,\n massacring their inhabitants without mercy, while at the same time\n working to sabotage the Ottoman army's war effort by destroying roads\n and bridges, raiding caravans, and doing whatever else they could to\n ease Russian occupation. The atrocities committed by the Armenian \n volunteer forces accompanying the Russian army were so severe that the \n Russian commanders themselves were compelled to withdraw them from the \n fighting fronts and sent them to rear guard duties. The memoirs of many\n Russian officers who served in the east at this time are filled with \n accounts of the revolting atrocities committed by these Armenian \n guerrillas, which were savage even by relatively primitive standards of\n war then observed in such areas.[1]\"\n\n[1] \"Journal de Guerre du Deuxieme d'Artillerie de Forteresse Russe \n d'Erzeroum,\" 1919, p. 28.\n\n: >honored me by reproducing my text. Unfortunately, he has still not produced\n: >the \"documents\" on \"Jews in LATVIA.\" Instead, he asks for my views on the\n: >\"Turkish Genocide.\" Well, that debate seems to be going on in a few hundred\n: >other threads. I'll let other people bring the usual charges, try to debunk\n: >Mutlu/Argic/Cosar (a net-wide Terrorism Triangle?) and their spurious evidence.\n: \n: When that does ever happen, look out the window to see if there is a\n: non-fascist x-Soviet Armenian Government in the East. Now, where is\n: your non-existent list of scholars? What a moronian. During the First \n: World War and the ensuing years - 1914-1920, the Armenian Dictatorship \n: through a premeditated and systematic genocide, tried to complete its \n: centuries-old policy of annihilation against the Turks and Kurds by \n: savagely murdering 2.5 million Muslims and deporting the rest from \n: their 1,000 year homeland.\n\n\nHow could you? Because there is none.\n\n\nLike conversing with a brick wall. And you are not responding to what I \nam writing. By the way, that \"bullshit\" is justly regarded as the first \ninstance of Genocide in the 20th Century acted upon an entire people.\nFor nearly one thousand years, the Turkish and Kurdish people lived \non their homeland - the last one hundred under the oppressive Soviet \nand Armenian occupation. The persecutions culminated in 1914: The \nArmenian Government planned and carried out a Genocide against its \nMuslim subjects. 2.5 million Turks and Kurds were murdered and the \nremainder driven out of their homeland. After one thousand years, \nTurkish and Kurdish lands were empty of Turks and Kurds. \n\nThe survivors found a safe heaven in Turkiye.\n\nToday, x-Soviet Armenian government rejects the right of Turks and \nKurds to return to their Muslim lands occupied by x-Soviet Armenia.\n\nToday, x-Soviet Armenia covers up the genocide perpetrated by its \npredecessors and is therefore an accessory to this crime against \nhumanity.\n\nx-Soviet Armenia must pay for its crime of genocide against the Muslims \nby admitting to the crime and making reparations to the Turks and Kurds.\n\n\nYou may assert whatever you wish.\n\n\nDitto.\n\n: The attempt at genocide is justly regarded as the first instance\n: of Genocide in the 20th Century acted upon an entire people.\n: This event is incontrovertibly proven by historians, government\n: and international political leaders, such as U.S. Ambassador Mark \n: Bristol, ...\n\n\nAnd still anxiously awaiting...\n\n: .......so the list goes on and on and on.....\n: \n: >I'm still trying to find out about those Jews in LATVIA. Can you post those \n: >documents PLEEEEEEEASE, Mr. Argic? Puh-leeze could you? C'mon, it's my\n: >birthday in three weeks... post them for me as a birthday present.\n: \n: Remember, the issue at hand is the cold-blooded genocide of 2.5 million \n: Muslim people by the Armenians between 1914-1920, and the Armenian-Nazi \n: collaboration during World War II. Anything to add?\n\n\nRemember, the issue at hand is the Armenian-Nazi collaboration during \nWorld War II and the Turkish Genocide. And I still fail to see how\nyou can challenge the following western sources.\n\nSource: John Dewey: \"The New Republic,\" Vol. 40, Nov. 12, 1928, pp. 268-9.\n\n\"Happy the minority [Jews] which has had no Christian nation to protect it.\n And one recalls that the Jews took up their abode in 'fanatic' Turkey\n when they were expelled from Europe, especially Spain, by Saintly Christians,\n and they have lived here for centuries in at least as much tranquility and\n liberty as their fellow Turkish subjects, all being exposed alike to the\n rapacity of their common rulers. To one brought up, as most Americans have \n been, in the Gladstonian and foreign-missionary tradition, the condition of \n the Jews in Turkey is almost a mathematical demonstration that religious\n differences have had an influence in the tragedy of Turkey only as they\n were combined with aspirations for a political separation which every \n nation in the world would have treated as treasonable. One readily \n reaches the conclusion that the Jews in Turkey were fortunate...\" \n\nHe also stated that:\n\n\"they [Armenians] traitorously turned Turkish cities over to the Russian \n invader; that they boasted of having raised an army of one hundred and\n fifty thousand men to fight a civil war, and that they burned at least\n a hundred Turkish villages and exterminated their population.\"\n\n: >I want the documents of Jews in Latvia. I think several other\n: >people on soc.culture.greek are already disputing with you about the Turkish\n: >Genocide.\n: \n: Is this the joke of the month? Who, when, how, where? What a clown...\n\n\nHow about Prof Shaw, a Jewish scholar?\n\nSource: Stanford J. Shaw, on Armenian collaboration with invading Russian\narmies in 1914, \"History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey (Volume\nII: Reform, Revolution & Republic: The Rise of Modern Turkey, 1808-1975).\"\n(London, Cambridge University Press 1977). pp. 315-316.\n\n\"In April 1915 Dashnaks from Russian Armenia organized a revolt in the city \n of Van, whose 33,789 Armenians comprised 42.3 percent of the population, \n closest to an Armenian majority of any city in the Empire...Leaving Erivan \n on April 28, 1915, Armenian volunteers reached Van on May 14 and organized \n and carried out a general slaughter of the local Muslim population during \n the next two days while the small Ottoman garrison had to retreat to the\n southern side of the lake.\"\n\n\"Knowing their numbers would never justify their territorial ambitions,\n Armenians looked to Russia and Europe for the fulfillment of their aims.\n Armenian treachery in this regard culminated at the beginning of the First\n World War with the decision of the revolutionary organizations to refuse\n to serve their state, the Ottoman Empire, and to assist instead other\n invading Russian armies. Their hope was their participation in the Russian\n success would be rewarded with an independent Armenian state carved out of\n Ottoman territories. Armenian political leaders, army officers, and common\n soldiers began deserting in droves.\"\n\n\"With the Russian invasion of eastern Anatolia in 1914 at the beginning of\n World War I, the degree of Armenian collaboration with the Ottoman's enemy\n increased drastically. Ottoman supply lines were cut by guerilla attacks,\n Armenian revolutionaries armed Armenian civil populations, who in turn\n massacred the Muslim population of the province of Van in anticipation of\n expected arrival of the invading Russian armies.\"\n\nSource: Stanford J. Shaw, \"History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey,\"\n Vol II. Cambridge University Press, London, 1979, pp. 314-317.\n\n\"...Meanwhile, Czar Nicholas II himself came to the Caucasus to make final\n plans for cooperation with the Armenians against the Ottomans, with the \n president of the Armenian National Bureau in Tiflis declaring in response:\n\n 'From all countries Armenians are hurrying to enter the ranks of the \n glorious Russian Army, with their blood to serve the victory of Russian\n arms...Let the Russian flag wave freely over the Dardanelles and the\n Bosporus. Let, with Your will, great Majesty, the peoples remaining\n under the Turkish yoke receive freedom. Let the Armenian people of Turkey\n who have suffered for the faith of Christ receive resurrection for a new\n free life under the protection of Russia.'[155]\n\nArmenians again flooded into the czarist armies. Preparations were made\nto strike the Ottomans from the rear, and the czar returned to St. Petersburg\nconfident that the day finally had come for him to reach Istanbul.\"\n\n[155] Horizon, Tiflis, November 30, 1914, quoted by Hovannisian, \"Road to\nIndependence,\" p. 45; FO 2485, 2484/46942, 22083.\n\n\"Ottoman morale and military position in the east were seriously hurt, and\n the way was prepared for a new Russian push into eastern Anatolia, to be\n accompanied by an open Armenian revolt against the sultan.[156]\"\n\n[156] Hovannisian, \"Road to Independence,\" pp. 45-47; Bayur, III/1, \npp. 349-380; W.E.D. Allen and P. Muratoff, \"Caucasian Battlefields,\"\nCambridge, 1953, pp. 251-277; Ali Ihsan Sabis, \"Harb Hahralaram,\" 2 vols.,\nAnkara, 1951, II, 41-160; FO 2146 no. 70404; FO 2485; FO 2484, nos.\n46942 and 22083.\n\n\"An Armenian state was organized at Van under Russian protection, and it \n appeared that with the Muslim natives dead or driven away, it might be\n able to maintain itself at one of the oldest centers of ancient Armenian\n civilization. An Armenian legion was organized 'to expel the Turks from\n the entire southern shore of the lake in preparation for a concerted\n Russian drive into the Bitlis vilayet.'[162] Thousands of Armenians from\n Mus and other major centers in the east began to flood into the new \n Armenian state...By mid-July there were as many as 250,000 Armenians\n crowded into the Van area, which before the crisis had housed and fed\n no more than 50,000 people, Muslim and non-Muslim alike.[163]\"\n\n[162] Hovannisian, \"Road to Independence,\" p. 56; FOP 2488, nos. 127223 and\n58350.\n\n[163] BVA, Meclis-i Vukela Mazbatalari, debates of August 15-17, 1915; \nBabi-i Ali Evrak Odasi, no. 175, 321, \"Van Ihtilali ve Katl-i Ami,\"\nZilkade 1333/10 September 1915.\n\n: Muslim population exterminated by the Armenians:\n\n\nWhy?\n\n: Who gives a thunder about your pseudo-scholar jokes? I'am arguing about \n: the Armenian-Nazi colaboration during World War II. Any comment?\n\n\nIt could be, perhaps, your head wasn't screwed on just right. In 1941, \nwhile the Jews were being assembled for their doom in the Nazi concentration \ncamps, the Armenian volunteers in Germany formed the first Armenian \nbattalion to fight alongside the Nazis. In 1943, this battalion had \ngrown into eight battalions of 20,000-strong under the command of the\nformer guerilla leader Dro (the butcher), who was the former dictator of the\nshort-lived Armenian Dictatorship (1918-1920) and the architect of the \ncold-blooded genocide of 2.5 million Turks and Kurds between 1914-1920.\nAn Armenian National Council was formed by the notorious Dashnak Party \nleaders in Berlin, which was recognized by the Nazis. Encouraged by \nthis, the Armenians summarily formed a provisional government that endorsed \nand espoused fully the principles of the Nazis and declared themselves as the \nmembers of the Aryan super race and full participants to Hitler's policy of \nextermination of the Jews.\n\nThis Armenian-Nazi conspiracy against the Jews during WWII was an \"encore\"\nperformance staged by the Armenians during WWI, when they back-stabbed and\nexterminated 2.5 million Turks by colluding with the invading Russian army.\n\nFurthermore, as McCarthy put it, the Armenian dictatorship was granted\na respite when the Ottomans admitted defeat and signed the Mudros\nArmistice with the Allies (October 30, 1918). The Allies had decided\nto create a Greater Armenia, including the old Russian province\nof Yerevan and adjoining areas, as well as most parts of Anatolia\nclaimed by the Armenian fanatics. Only the area called Cilicia\n(around the Ottoman province of Adana) was to be excluded, as it\nhad already been claimed by the French. The Allies quickly set\nabout attempting to disarm Ottoman soldiers and other Turks, who\ncould be expected to oppose their plans. \n\nOn April 19, 1919 the British Army occupied Kars, gave civilian\nand military power over to the Armenians, then withdrew. The British\nplanned for Kars to be included in the Armenian Dictatorship, even \nthough the Russian pre-war census had shown Kars Province to be over\n60% Muslim. The Turks of Kars were effectively disarmed, but the \nBritish could not disarm the Kurds of the mountains. The fate of\nthe Turks was almost an exact replica of what had occurred earlier\nin Eastern Anatolia. Murder, pillage, genocide and the destruction\nof Turkish homes and entire Turkish villages drove the Turks of\nKars to the mountains or south and west to the safety afforded\nby remaining units of the Ottoman Army. The British had left \nthe scene to the Armenian genocide squads. Therefore, few \nEuropeans were present to observe the genocide. One British\nsoldier, Colonel Rawlinson, who was assigned to supervise the\ndisarmament of Otoman soldiers, saw what was occurring. \n\nRawlinson wired to his superiors, \n\n\"in the interest of humanity the Armenians should not be left in\n independent command of the Moslim population, as, their troops \n being without discipline and not being under effective control,\n atrocities were constantly being committed.\" \n\n\nCome again?\n\n: \"These European Dashnags, with headquarters in Berlin, appealed to...\n\nWhy?\n\n: No wonder you are in such a mess. Here are the Armenian sources on the\n: Turkish Holocaust.\n\nWhy?\n\n\nObrother. Spell it out, \"list of dead Muslims\":\n\nSource: Documents: Volume I (1919).\n \"Document No: 64,\" Archive No: 1/2, Cabin No: 109, Drawer \n No: 4, File No: 359, Section No: 103(1435), Contents No: 3-20.\n (To Acting Supreme Command - Socialist Salah Cimcoz, Socialist \n Nesim Mazelyah)\n\n\"Armenian gangs have been murdering and inflicting cruelties on\n innocent people of the region. This verified information, supported\n by clear statements of reliable eyewitnesses, was also confirmed by\n General Odishelidje, Commander of the Russian Caucasian Army.\n\n Armenians are entering every place evacuated by Russians carrying out\n murders, cruelties, rape and all kind of atrocities which cannot be\n expressed in writing, murdering all the women, children, aged people\n who happen to be in the street. These barbarous murders repeated \n every day with new methods continue and the Russian Army has been urged\n to intervene to terminate these atrocities. Public opinion is appalled\n and horrified. Newspapers are describing the happenings as shocking.\n We have decided to inform all our friends urgently about the situation.\"\n\n \"Document No: 65,\" Archive No: 4/3671, Cabin No: 163, Drawer \n No: 5, File No: 2947, Section No: 628, Contents No: 3-1, 3-3.\n (To Acting Supreme Command - Commander, 3rd Army General)\n\n\"The situation in the cities of Erzincan and Erzurum which we have \n recently taken over is given below:\n\n These two beautiful cities of our country which are alike in the\n calamities and destruction which they suffered, have been destroyed,\n as the specially designed and built public and private buildings of\n these cities were deliberately burnt by Armenians apart from the \n destruction suffered during the two-year Russian occupation.\n\n All barracks buildings of Erzincan, the cavalry barracks in Erzurum,\n the Government building and Army Corps Headquarters are among those\n burnt. In short, both cities are burnt, destroyed and trees cut down.\n\n As to the people of these cities:\n\n All people old enough to use weapons rounded up, taken to the Sarikamis\n direction for road building and were slaughtered. The remaining people,\n were subject to cruelties and murder by Armenians following the \n withdrawal of Russians and were partly annihilated the corpses thrown \n into wells, burnt in houses, mutilated by bayonets, their abdomens\n ripped open in slaughterhouses, their lungs and livers torn out, girls\n and women hung up by their hair, after all kinds of devilish acts.\n The few people who were able to survive these cruelties, worse than\n those of the 'Spanish Inquisition,' are in poverty more dead than alive,\n horrified, some driven insane, about 1500 in Erzincan and 30,000 in\n Erzurum. The people are hungry and in poverty, for whatever they had\n has been taken away from them, their lands left uncultivated.\n\n The people have just been able to exist with some provisions found in\n stores left over from the Russians. The villages round Erzincan and \n Erzurum are in the worst condition. Some villages on the road, have \n been leveled to the ground, leaving no stone, the people completely\n massacred.\n\n Let me submit to your information with deep grief and regret that\n history has never before witnessed cruelties at such dimensions.\"\n\n: (a long list)\n: (a long list)\"\n\nAnd still anxiously awaiting...\n\nSerdar Argic", "Source: \"Men Are Like That\" by Leonard Ramsden Hartill. The Bobbs-Merrill\nCompany, Indianapolis (1926). (305 pages). \n(Memoirs of an Armenian officer who participated in the genocide of 2.5 \n million Muslim people)\n\n\np. 19 (first paragraph)\n\n\"The Tartar section of the town no longer existed, except as a pile of\n ruins. It had been destroyed and its inhabitants slaughtered. The same \n fate befell the Tartar section of Khankandi.\"\n\np. 130 (third paragraph)\n\n\"The city was a scene of confusion and terror. During the early days of \n the war, when the Russian troops invaded Turkey, large numbers of the \n Turkish population abandoned their homes and fled before the Russian \n advance.\"\n\np. 181 (first paragraph)\n\n\"The Tartar villages were in ruins.\"\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "In 1941, while the Jews were being assembled for their doom in the Nazi\nconcentration camps, the Nazi Armenians in Germany formed the first\nArmenian battalion to fight alongside the Nazis. In 1943, this battalion \nhad grown into eight battalions of 20,000-strong under the command of Dro \n(the butcher) who is the architect of the cold-blooded genocide of 2.5 \nmillion Turks and Kurds between 1914-1920. An Armenian National Council \nwas formed by the notorious Dashnak Party leaders in Berlin, which was \nrecognized by the Nazis. Encouraged by this, the Armenians summarily \nformed a provisional government that endorsed and espoused fully the \nprinciples of the Nazis and declared themselves as the members of the \nAryan super race and full participants to Hitler's policy of extermination \nof the Jews.\n\nThis Armenian-Nazi conspiracy against the Jews during WWII was an \"encore\"\nperformance staged by the Armenians during WWI, when they back-stabbed and\nexterminated 2.5 million Turks by colluding with the invading Russian army.\n\n\nSource: \"Adventures in the Near East, 1918-1922\" by A. Rawlinson,\nJonathan Cape, 30 Bedford Square, London, 1934 (First published 1923) \n(287 pages).\n(Memoirs of a British officer who witnessed the Armenian genocide of 2.5 \n million Muslim people)\n\np. 184 (second paragraph)\n\n \"I had received further very definite information of horrors that\n had been committed by the Armenian soldiery in Kars Plain, and as \n I had been able to judge of their want of discipline by their \n treatment of my own detached parties, I had wired to Tiflis from \n Zivin that 'in the interests of humanity the Armenians should not \n be left in independent command of the Moslem population, as, their \n troops being without discipline and not under effective control, \n atrocities were constantly being committed, for which we should \n with justice eventually be held to be morally responsible'.\"\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nI've heard many Turks say this and it surpises me that they don't read about\nit.Remember the Treaty of Sevres-as a consequence of being in the Axis powers\nin WWI.The Turks UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW were supposed to look after their\nminorities ie. Greeks,Armenians,Kurds(I must say Turk-Kurd relations are \nimproving slightly with time) and not pose a threat to Turkey's neighbours.\nThe Turks blatantly rejected this treaty(the Germans grudgingly accepted \nVersailles which was a million times worse for the health and pride of the \nGerman people).The Greeks who had an army there,were there with BRITISH\nand FRENCH backing to enforce Sevres.\n In possibly the first example of appeasement the Young Turk government\nmanaged screwed the Treaty of Laussane out of the weak allies,this was after \nthe Greek forces were were destroyed at Smyrna.When this occurred incidently,\nFRENCH warships were in the harbour and many Greeks trying escape swam to the \nFRENCH warships and climbed aboard only to get their arms cut off by the FRENCH\nas they clawed they're way up the sides of the ships.\nLibertae,egalitae,fraternatae.\n\n\n", "\n\nTypical 'virvir' drivel. People will think you're just some \nlooney howling in the wires. If you think that this 'clears \nthings up' for me or anyone else, you must also believe that \naliens from outer space come to earth regularly and abduct \n'Arromdians' of ASALA/SDPA/ARF for medical experiments. There \nis stronger evidence for *that* you know.\n\n'Propagandist leaflets'? This is an American officer on the \ngenocide of 2.5 million Muslim people by the Armenians between\n1914 and 1920, not a crook/idiot like yourself.\n\n\nSource: \"World Alive, A Personal Story\" by Robert Dunn. Crown Publishers, \nInc., New York (1952). \n(Memoirs of an American officer who witnessed the Armenian genocide of 2.5 \n million Muslim people)\n\np. 361 (seventh paragraph) and p. 362 (first paragraph).\n\n 'The most are inside houses. Come you and look.'\n 'No, dammit! My stomach isn't-'\n 'One is a Turkish officer in uniform. Him you must see.'\n \"We were under those trees by the mosque, in an open space....\n 'I don't believe you,\" I said, but followed to a nail-studded door. The \n man pushed it ajar, then spurred away, leaving me to check on the corpse. \n I thought I should, this charge was so constant, so gritted my teeth and \n went inside.\n\n The place was cool but reeked of sodden ashes, and was dark at first, for \n its stone walls had only window slits. Rags strewed the mud floor around an \n iron tripod over embers that vented their smoke through roof beams black \n with soot. All looked bare and empty, but in an inner room flies buzzed. As \n the door swung shut behind me I saw they came from a man's body lying face \n up, naked but for its grimy turban. He was about fifty years old by what \n was left of his face - a rifle butt had bashed an eye. The one left slanted, \n as with Tartars rather than with Turks. Any uniform once on him was gone, so \n I'd no proof which he was, and quickly went out, gagging at the mess of his \n slashed genitals.\"\n\np. 363 (first paragraph). \n\n 'How many people lived there?'\n 'Oh, about eight hundred.' He yawned.\n 'Did you see any Turk officers?'\n 'No, sir. I was in at dawn. All were Tartar civilians in mufti.'\n\n \"The lieutenant dozed off, then I, but in the small hours a voice woke me - \n Dro's. He stood in the starlight bawling out an officer. Anyone keelhauled\n so long and furiously I'd never heard. Then abruptly Dro broke into \n laughter, quick and simple as child's. Both were a cover for his sense\n of guilt, I thought, or hoped. For somehow, despite my boast of irreligion,\n Christian massacring 'infidels' was more horrible than the reverse would\n have been.\n\n From daybreak on, Armenian villagers poured in from miles around.....\n The women plundered happily, chattering like ravens as they picked over\n the carcass of Djul. They hauled out every hovel's chattels, the last \n scrap of food or cloth, and staggered away, packing pots, saddlebags, \n looms, even spinning-wheels.\n\n 'Thank you for a lot, Dro,' I said to him back in camp. 'But now I must \n leave.'...We shook hands, the captain said 'A bientot, mon camarade.' And \n for hours the old Molokan scout and I plodded north across parching plains. \n Like Lot's wife I looked back once to see smoke bathing all, doubtless in \n a sack of other Moslem villages up to the line of snow that was Iran.'\"\n\np. 354.\n\n\"At morning tea, Dro and his officers spread out a map of this whole\n high region called the Karabakh. Deep in tactics, they spoke Russian,\n but I got their contempt for Allied 'neutral' zones and their distrust\n of promises made by tribal chiefs. A campaign shaped; more raids on\n Moslem villages.\"\n\np. 358.\n\n\"It will be three hours to take,\" Dro told me. We'd close in on three\n sides.\n\"The men on foot will not shoot, but use only the bayonets,\" Merrimanov\nsaid, jabbing a rifle in dumbshow.\n\"That is for morale,\" Dro put in. \"We must keep the Moslems in terror.\"\n\"Soldiers or civilians?\" I asked.\n\"There is no difference,\" said Dro. \"All are armed, in uniform or not.\"\n\"But the women and children?\"\n\"Will fly with the others as best they may.\"\n\np. 360.\n\n\"The ridges circled a wide expanse, its floors still. Hundreds of feet \n down, the fog held, solid as cotton flock. 'Djul lies under that,' said \n Dro, pointing. 'Our men also attack from the other sides.'\n\n Then, 'Whee-ee!' - his whistle lined up all at the rock edge. Bayonets\n clicked upon carbines. Over plunged Archo, his black haunches rippling;\n then followed the staff, the horde - nose to tail, bellies taking the\n spur. Armenia in action seemed more like a pageant than war, even though \n I heard our Utica brass roar.\n\n As I watched from the height, it took ages for Djul to show clear. A tsing\n of machine-gun fire took over from the thumping batteries; cattle lowed,\n dogs barked, invisible, while I ate a hunk of cheese and drank from a snow\n puddle. Mist at last folded upward as men shouted, at first heard faintly.\n The came a shrill wailing.\n\n Now among the cloud-streaks rose darker wisps - smoke. Red glimmered about\n house walls of stone or wattle, into dry weeds on roofs. A mosque stood in\n clump of trees, thick and green. Through crooked alleys on fire, horsemen\n were galloping after figures both mounted and on foot.\n\n 'Tartarski!' shouted the gunner by me. Others pantomimed them in escape\n over the rocks, while one twisted a bronze shell-nose, loaded, and yanked\n breech-cord, firing again and again. Shots wasted, I thought, when by\n afternoon I looked in vain for fallen branch or body. But these shots and\n the white bursts of shrapnel in the gullies drowned the women's cries.\n\n At length all shooting petered out. I got on my horse and rode down toward\n Djul. It burned still but little flame showed now. The way was steep and \n tough, through dense scrub. Finally on flatter ground I came out suddenly,\n through alders, on smoldering houses. Across trampled wheat my brothers-in-\n arms were leading off animals, several calves and a lamb.\"\n\np. 361 (fourth paragraph).\n\n\"Corpses came next, the first a pretty child with straight black hair, \n large eyes. She looked about twelve years old. She lay in some stubble \n where meal lay scattered from the sack she'd been toting. The bayonet \n had gone through her back, I judged, for blood around was scant. Between \n the breasts one clot, too small for a bullet wound, crusted her homespun \n dress.\n\n The next was a boy of ten or less, in rawhide jacket and knee-pants. He \n lay face down in the path by several huts. One arm reached out to the \n pewter bowl he'd carried, now upset upon its dough. Steel had jabbed \n just below his neck, into the spine. \n\n There were grownups, too, I saw as I led the sorrel around. Djul was \n empty of the living till I looked up to see beside me Dro's German-speaking \n colonel. He said all Tartars who had not escaped were dead.\"\n\np. 358.\n\n \"...more stories of Armenian murdering Turks when the czarist troops fled\n north. My hosts told me of their duty here: to keep tabs on brigands, \n Turkish troop shifts, hidden arms, spies - Christian, Red or Tartar -\n coming in from Transcaucasus. Then they spoke of the hell that would \n break loose if Versailles were to put, as threatened, the six 'Armenian'\n vilayets of Turkey under the control of Erevan...\n\n An Armenia without Armenians! Turks under Christian rule? His lips\n smacked in irony under the droopy red moustache. That's bloodshed - just\n Smyrna over again on a bigger scale.\"\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "Source: \"Adventures in the Near East\" by A. Rawlinson, Jonathan Cape, \n30 Bedford Square, London, 1934 (First published 1923) (287 pages).\n(Memoirs of a British officer who witnessed the Armenian genocide of 2.5 \n million Muslim people)\n\np. 178 (first paragraph)\n\n\"In those Moslem villages in the plain below which had been searched for\n arms by the Armenians everything had been taken under the cloak of such\n search, and not only had many Moslems been killed, but horrible tortures \n had been inflicted in the endeavour to obtain information as to where\n valuables had been hidden, of which the Armenians were aware of the \n existence, although they had been unable to find them.\"\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nThat is the result of watching anti-Muslim 'SDPA' Nazis/crooks/idiots \ntoo much. Still covering up the crimes of your fascist Armenian grandparents \nand Nazi Armenian parents? Not a chance. As early as 1934, K. S. Papazian \nasserted in 'Patriotism Perverted' that the Armenians\n\n 'lean toward Fascism and Hitlerism.'[1]\n\nAt that time, he could not have foreseen that the Armenians would\nactively assume a pro-German stance and even collaborate in World\nWar II. His book was dealing with the Armenian genocide of the Muslim\npopulation of Eastern Anatolia. However, extreme rightwing ideological\ntendencies could be observed within the Dashnagtzoutune long before\nthe outbreak of the Second World War.\n\nIn 1936, for example, O. Zarmooni of the 'Tzeghagrons' was quoted\nin the 'Hairenik Weekly:' \n\n\"The race is force: it is treasure. If we follow history we shall \n see that races, due to their innate force, have created the nations\n and these have been secure only insofar as they have reverted to\n the race after becoming a nation. Today Germany and Italy are\n strong because as nations they live and breath in terms of race.\n On the other hand, Russia is comparatively weak because she is\n bereft of social sanctities.\"[2]\n\n[1] K. S. Papazian, 'Patriotism Perverted,' (Boston, Baikar Press\n 1934), Preface.\n[2] 'Hairenik Weekly,' Friday, April 10, 1936, 'The Race is our\n Refuge' by O. Zarmooni.\n\nIn April 1942, Hitler was preparing for the invasion of the Caucasus.\nA number of Nazi Armenian leaders began submitting plans to German\nofficials in spring and summer 1942. One of them was Souren Begzadian\nPaikhar, son of a former ambassador of the Armenian Republic in Baku.\nPaikhar wrote a letter to Hitler, asking for German support to his\nArmenian national socialist movement Hossank and suggesting the\ncreation of an Armenian SS formation in order \n\n\"to educate the youth of liberated Armenia according to the \n spirit of the Nazi ideas.\"\n\nHe wanted to unite the Armenians of the already occupied territories\nof the USSR in his movement and with them conquer historic Turkish\nhomeland. Paikhar was confined to serving the Nazis in Goebbels\nPropaganda ministry as a speaker for Armenian- and French-language\nradio broadcastings.[1] The Armenian-language broadcastings were\nproduced by yet another Nazi Armenian Viguen Chanth.[2]\n\n[1] Patrick von zur Muhlen (Muehlen), p. 106.\n[2] Enno Meyer, A. J. Berkian, 'Zwischen Rhein und Arax, 900\n Jahre Deutsch-Armenische beziehungen,' (Heinz Holzberg\n Verlag-Oldenburg 1988), pp. 124 and 129.\n\n\nThe establishment of Armenian units in the German army was favored\nby General Dro (the Butcher). He played an important role in the\nestablishment of the Armenian 'legions' without assuming any \nofficial position. His views were represented by his men in the\nrespective organs. An interesting meeting took place between Dro\nand Reichsfuehrer-SS Heinrich Himmler toward the end of 1942.\nDro discussed matters of collaboration with Himmler and after\na long conversation, asked if he could visit POW camp close to\nBerlin. Himmler provided Dro with his private car.[1] \n\nA minor problem was that some of the Soviet nationals were not\n'Aryans' but 'subhumans' according to the official Nazi philosophy.\nAs such, they were subject to German racism. However, Armenians\nwere the least threatened and indeed most privileged. In August \n1933, Armenians had been recognized as Aryans by the Bureau of\nRacial Investigation in the Ministry for Domestic Affairs.\n\n[1] Meyer, Berkian, ibid., pp. 112-113.\n\nNeed I go on?\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nWell, does it change the fact that during the period of 1914 to 1920, \nthe fascist x-Soviet Armenian Government ordered, incited, assisted \nand participated in the genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people because \nof race, religion and national origin?\n\nAs in the past in Turkiye, and today in Azerbaijan, for utopic and \nidiotic causes the Armenians brought havoc to their neighbors. A \nshort-sighted and misplaced nationalistic fervor with a wrong agenda \nand anachronistic methods the Armenians continue to become pernicious \nfor the region. As usual, they will be treated accordingly by their \nneighbors. Nagorno-Karabag is a mountainous enclave that lies completely \nwithin Azerbaijan with no border or history whatsoever connected to \nx-Soviet Armenia. Besides the geographical aspect, Nagorno-Karabag is \nthe historic homeland and the 'cradle' of the artistic and literary \nheritage of Azerbaijan, which renders the Armenian claims preposterous, \neven lunatic. \n\nAnd we still demand:\n\n1. that the x-Soviet Armenian Government, as the heirs of the Armenian \ndictatorship, recognize the Turkish Genocide;\n\n2. that x-Soviet Armenia return the historic homeland to the Turkish and\nKurdish people;\n\n3. that the x-Soviet Armenian Government make material reparations for their\nheinous and unspeakable crime to the victims of the Turkish Genocide;\n\n4. that all world governments officially recognize the Turkish Genocide \nand Turkish territorial rights and refuse to succumb to all Armenian \npolitical pressure.\n\nThe awareness of the Turkish people of the necessity of solidarity in the\nefforts to pursue the Turkish Cause is seen by the victims of the first \ngenocide of the 20th century as a positive step. \n\nNow what would you do? \n\nSource: 'The Sunday Times,' 1 March 1992 (a British Weekly, written by \n Thomas Goltz, from Agdam, Azerbaijan.)\n\n ARMENIAN SOLDIERS MASSACRE HUNDREDS OF FLEEING FAMILIES.\n\n The spiralling violence gripping the outer republics of the former\nSoviet Union gained new impetus yesterday with cold-blooded slaughter of\nhundreds of women and children in war-racked Nagorno-Karabakh.\n Survivors reported that Armenian soldiers shot and bayoneted more\nthan 450 Azeris, many of them women and children, who were fleeing an\nattack on their town. Hundreds, possibly thousands, were missing and\nfeared dead.\n The attackers killed most of the soldiers and volunteers defending\nthe women and children. They then turned their guns on the terrified\nrefugees. The few survivors later described what happened:\" That's when\nthe real slaughter began,\" said Azer Hajiev, one of three soldiers to\nsurvive. \"The Armenians just shot and shot. And then they came in and\nstarted carving up people with their bayonets and knives.\"\n \" They were shooting, shooting, shooting\", echoed Rasia Aslanova, who\narrived in Agdam with other women and children who made their way through\nArmenian lines. She said her husband, Kayun, and a son-in-law were killed\nin front of her. Her daughter was still missing.\n One boy who arrived in Agdam had an ear sliced off.\n\n The survivors said 2000 others, some of whom had fled separately,\nwere still missing in the gruelling terrain; many could perish from their\nwounds or the cold.\n By late yesterday, 479 deaths had been registered at the morgue in\nAgdam's morgue, and 29 bodies had been buried in the cemetery. Of the\nseven corpses I saw awaiting burial, two were children and three were\nwomen, one shot through the chest at point blank range.\n Agdam hospital was a scene of carnage and terror. Doctors said they\nhad 140 patients who escaped slaughter, most with bullet injuries or deep\nstab wounds.\n Nor were they safe in Agdam. On friday night rockets fell on the city\nwhich has a population of 150,000, destroying several buildings and\nkilling one person.\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\n\nThis is the point we seem to disagree about. Not a chance.\n\n\nWell, \"Arromdian\" of ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism and Revisionism Triangle\nis a compulsive liar. Now try dealing with the rest of what I wrote.\n\nU.S. Ambassador Bristol:\n\nSource: \"U.S. Library of Congress:\" 'Bristol Papers' - General Correspondence\nContainer #34.\n\n \"While the Dashnaks were in power they did everything in the world to keep the\n pot boiling by attacking Kurds, Turks and Tartars; by committing outrages\n against the Moslems; by massacring the Moslems; and robbing and destroying\n their homes;....During the last two years the Armenians in Russian Caucasus\n have shown no ability to govern themselves and especially no ability to \n govern or handle other races under their power.\"\n\nA Kurdish scholar:\n\nSource: Hassan Arfa, \"The Kurds,\" (London, 1968), pp. 25-26.\n\n \"When the Russian armies invaded Turkey after the Sarikamish disaster \n of 1914, their columns were preceded by battalions of irregular \n Armenian volunteers, both from the Caucasus and from Turkey. One of \n these was commanded by a certain Andranik, a blood-thirsty adventurer.\n These Armenian volunteers committed all kinds of excesses, more\n than six hundred thousand Kurds being killed between 1915 and 1916 in \n the eastern vilayets of Turkey.\"\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n\nFunny you should mention. That's the whole point 'paliks' invariably miss. \n\n\nSource: 'United Nations, Human Development Report,' 1990.\n\nAnnual Output Per Person in Dollars Adjusted to Purchasing Power\nParity: Turkiye, Greece and Chile are in the same category. That\nis, $3,000 - $5,999. \n\n\nSource: 'International Economics: Theory and Policy' by Paul R.\n Krugman and Maurice Obstfeld, Harper Collins Publishers,\n 1991, (second edition).\n\nIn terms of 'Annual Output Per Person in Dollars Adjusted to \nPurchasing Power Parity,' Greece is in the same category with \nTurkiye.\n\n\nIndeed, Greek Governments have enormous problems to tackle. The \neconomy is in shambles, corruption is rampant, air pollution is \nin outrageous dimensions, state-sponsored terrorism is the name \nof the game and infrastructure is decaying. Another insightful \narticle in the New York Times (Sunday, April 7) exposes the dirty \nlinen of Greece, and describes her as the pariah of the European \nCommunity. The article reports that ''...with un-European antics,\nGreece uses the Community as a cash register. She squanders, and\nat times even steals the European tax payers' money for political \nfeatherbedding at home. The principal members of the Community\nadmit that it was a mistake to accept Greece to the European\nCommunity.'' This affirmation is testimony to the fact that\nnotwithstanding her geographic location, Greece is un-European\nin mentality and attitude. \n\nIndeed, during the last 12 years, Turkiye registered a great \nsuccess with regard to economic restructuring. A sound economy, \nready to be integrated to the world economies, has emerged, \nsucceeding to the faltering one, witnessed in the '70s.\n\nJust 12 years ago, Greece used to export double as much as \nTurkiye did. Now inversely, Turkiye's overall exports exceed \nby far that of Greece. As far as the tourism incomes are \nconcerned, we are witnessing the same phenomenon.\n\nThe governments in Turkiye have put a particular emphasis on \nthe infrastructure investments (rather than investing in\nworld terrorist organizations), thereby solving this issue \ncompletely. Indeed, in the '70s, it was out of the question \nto conduct a telephone call from Eastern Anatolia to the West. \nNowadays, this is not the case at all, and in a far remote \ntown, even in a village you may have, at any time, a long-distance \ncall to any given country.\n\nHowever, the same could not be applied to Greece. In fact,\nit is not so easy in Athens to have a trunk call to Germany\nround the clock. And if you happen to be in the Greek islands,\nthen your chance will be pretty slim. Therefore, it would not\nbe an exaggeration to argue that Turkiye is far ahead of \nGreece in regard to telecommunication facilities. Greece,\nby virtue of its full membership, has enjoyed all advantages\nof the EC, obtaining huge grants and extensive subsidies. \nTurkiye, having no access at all to similar financial supports,\nhas nevertheless managed to create a better economy which \nenabled it to produce consecutive current accounts surplus\nover the last two years. As such, Turkiye deserves to be the\nonly country in its region having permanent current accounts\nsurplus. \n\n\nSerdar Argic", "David posts a good translation of a post by Suat Kinikliouglu:\n\n[most of the original post elided]\n\n [KK] ***** VATAN SEVGISI RUHLARI KIRDEN KURTARAN EN KUVVETLI RUZGARDIR *****\n\n In translation, as a public service:\n\n[most of the translation elided]\n\n ***** THE LOVE OF THE FATHERLAND IS THE STRONGEST OF ALL WINDS CLEANSING\n FILTH OFF SOULS *****\n\nI think this part of the translation is questionable. Although I\nthink the original quote is plain silly, you made it sound as if\nit is coming from a neo-nazi youth. For example, Turks talk of a\n\"motherland\" not a Germanic \"fatherland\". Why \"filth\" instead of\n\"dirt\"? The indeterminacy of translation is a well-known problem\n[1] so one may have to \"fudge\", but with some care of course. Is\nthe following an equally valid translation?\n\nThe love of one's country is the strongest wind to cleanse one's\nsoul.\n\nSee my point?\n\nNevertheless, I think you translate well.\n\noz", "\nOf course it is! \n\n\nAnd this is your opinion. It is not any more valid due to repeated\ncapital letters and words such as 'untrue' 'never' etc. \n\n\nSo Armenians are justified in aggression since supposedly Turks have\nbeen aggressive in the past? I don't follow your logic. \n\n\nI have said that I don't wish to get into Cyprus discussion and did not\ngive any reasons for Turkey's involvement. I also am not trying to\nconvince you of anything, seeing no reason to waste any time.... \n\n\nI am serious. Let's get soc.culture.armenia started and have some peace\nof mind? ", "Accounts of Anti-Armenian Human Right Violations in Azerbaijan #014\n Prelude to Current Events in Nagorno-Karabakh\n\n +----------------------------------------------------------+\n | |\n | I asked, \"What's going on?\" He says, \"What's the matter, |\n | can't you see, they've overturned a car and they're |\n | killing Armenians!\" |\n | |\n +----------------------------------------------------------+\n\nDEPOSITION OF ZAVEN ARMENAKOVICH BADASIAN\n\n Born 1942\n Employed\n Sumgait Bulk Yarn Plant\n\n Resident at Building 34, Apartment 33\n Microdistrict No. 12\n Sumgait [Azerbaijan]\n\n\nOn February 27 my wife and I went to Baku to go shopping and returned to \nSumgait at around five in the evening. We ran into one of my relatives at the \nbus station and got to talking. A lot of people had gathered not far away,\nnear the store. Well at first we didn't know what was happening, and then a\nfellow I know comes up to me, an Azerbaijani guy, and says, \"What are you\nstanding here for? Go home immediately!\" I asked, \"What's going on?\" He says, \n\"What's the matter, can't you see, they've overturned a car and they're \nkilling Armenians!\" He helped me catch a cab and we got home safely.\n\nWe sat at home for two days. During that time a gang of bandits came into our \ncourtyard. But the neighbors wouldn't let them in the building. There were \nabout 80 of them. They had sticks and pieces of armatures in their hands. They\nwere shouting something, but you couldn't understand it. It wasn't one voice \nor two, all of them were shouting in a chorus. They turned toward Building 35.\nThey went up to the third _floor, and we see that they're breaking glass and \nthrowing things out the window. After a while they come out the entryway: one \nhas a pair of jeans in his hands, another has a tape recorder, and a third a \nguitar. They went on toward the auto parts store.\n\nWe had to save ourselves. After midnight on March 1 we went to hide at School \nNo. 33, which is in Microdistrict 13. There were two other Armenian families \nthere with us. There were 13 of us altogether. Out of all of them I had only \nknown Ernest before, he had moved to Sumgait from Kirovabad. The Azerbaijani \nguard at the school let us in. At first he didn't want to, but there was \nnowhere else for us to go. We had to plead with him and talk him into it. We \nwere told that on that day, the 1st, there would be an attack on our \nmicrodistrict.\n\nWe went upstairs to a classroom on the second floor.\n\nOn the city radio station they announced three telephone numbers that could be\nused to summon assistance or communicate anything important. I called one of \nthem and the First Secretary of the Sumgait City Party Committee answered. I\nasked him for assistance. I say, \"We're in School No. 33, we need to be \nevacuated.\" Well he says, \"Got it, wait there, I'm sending out help now.\"\n\nI know his voice. The First Secretary had been to our plant, I had spoken with\nhim personally. When I called he said, \"Muslimzade here.\"\n\nAbout two hours after the call we heard shouts near the school. We looked out\nthe window and about 100 to 120 people were outside saying, \"Armenians, come \nout, we're here to get you.\" They have clubs, axes, and armature shafts in \ntheir hands. The guard sat there with us, and asked, \"Where should I go?\" I \nsay, \"If your life is of any value to you you'll go down there and say that \nthe Armenians were here and that they left.\" That's what he did. He went down \nthere and said, \"The Armenians were here,\" he said, \"I let them out the back \ndoor, they went that way.\" And pointed with his hand. And with shouts and \nnoise the mob set off in the direction he had pointed.\n\nSo the assistance we had been promised did come. They sent us help, all right!\nInstead of sending real soldiers he had sent his own. I am positive that\nMuslimzade did that. No one had seen us entering the school, no one knew that \nwe were there. In any case, we stayed at the school until seven in the \nmorning, and no soldiers of any sort came to our aid.\n\nIn the morning we went to my relative's in Microdistrict 1, and the soldiers \ntook us to the SK club from there. The club was jammed with people, and there \nwere lots of people ahead of us--there was no space available. One small boy, \nabout three months old, died right in my arms. There wasn't a single doctor, \nnothing. The boy was uninjured, there were no wounds or bruises on him. He was\njust very ill. They gave him mouth-to-mouth resuscitation, they did everything\nthey could under the circumstances, but were unable to save him. And his \nmother and father, a young Armenian couple, were right there, on the floor ...\n\nI searched for a spot for us in the SK, we have a small child of our own, I\nwanted to find a room or something to put my family in. I went up to the third\nfloor, there were a lot of soldiers up there, bandaged, with canes, limping, \nwith their heads broken open. They were a terrible sight. Young guys, all of \nthem.\n\nThere were a lot of bandaged Armenians, too. Everyone had been beaten, \neveryone was crying, wailing, and calling for help. I think that the City\nParty Committee ignored us completely. True, there was a snack bar: a sausage \nwas 30 kopeks or 40 kopeks, a package of cookies that cost 26 kopeks was being\nsold for 50, a bottled soft drink cost a ruble . . . But there was no way to \nget the things any cheaper.\n\nI met my old uncle, Aram Mikhailovich, there. He saw me and tears welled up in\nhis eyes. My whole life he had told me that we were friendly peoples, that we \nworked together, he always had Azerbaijanis over at his house. And now he saw \nme and there was nothing he could say, he just cried. You can understand his \nfeelings, of course.\n\n April 8, 1988\n Yerevan\n\n\t\t - - - reference - - -\n\n[1] _The Sumgait Tragedy; Pogroms against Armenians in Soviet Azerbaijan,\n Volume I, Eyewitness Accounts_, edited by Samuel Shahmuradian, forward by\n Yelena Bonner, 1990, published by Aristide D. Caratzas, NY, pages 185-186\n\n", "\n\nSo, the Greek educational system is also in a shambles. History shows \nthat within the last 170 years, Greeks played that game twice: They \nused Istanbul Patriarch Grigorios in 1822 to instigate the Morea \nrebellion that resulted in the massacres of the Muslim people. Again, \nthe Orthodox Patriarch Constantine V invited the Russian Czar Nicholas \nII to invade the Ottoman Empire 'in the name of Jesus,' and save his \nflock from Ottoman rule. \n\nSource: \"The 'Past' in Medieval and Modern Greek Culture,\" in Speros\n Vryonis, ed., 'Byzantina kai Metabyzantina,' Vol I (Malibu,\n Calif., 1978).\n\np. 161.\n\nIn the words of Professor Skiotis, \"With savage jubilance, [the Greeks]\nsang the words 'Let no Turk remain in the Morea, nor in the whole world.'\nThe Greeks were determined to achieve to 'Romaiko' in the only way they\nknew how: through a war of religious extermination.\"\n\nLet me further improve this one for you. After the Ottoman Empire lost \nWorld War I, the British landed in 1919 a 200,000 Greek army in Izmir \nto exterminate the people of Turkiye. Are you suffering from a severe \ncase of amnesia? The tired and defeated Turks rose up, formed a National \nForce under the leadership of Mustafa Kemal, and on August 30, 1922 they \nannihilated the bulk of the Greek Army.\n\nNow wait, there is more.\n\n <>\n\n\n Nikos Stavroulakis\n 'Athens-Auschwitz', page ix.\n\n Source: Professor Stanford J. Shaw, 'The Jews of the Ottoman Empire and \n the Turkish Republic,' New York University Press, New York (1991).\n\n page 187:\n\n <<...the disintegration of the Ottoman Empire which had been going on\n for a century was disastrous for Ottoman Jewry. This was the age of\n nationalism among the Christian subjects of the Sultan, starting with\n the Greek Revolution early in the nineteenth century, which, based on\n the Megali Idea, or Great Idea, sought to add to Greek kingdom Istanbul\n and large portions of Anatolia, union of which with Greece was felt to be\n the 'dream and hope of all'. The success of the Greek national movement,\n provided more in fact by the intervention of the Great Powers than by the\n efforts of the Greeks themselves, stimulated similar uprisings among the\n other subjects in Southeastern Europe who had long been oppressed, not so\n much by the Ottomans but, rather, by the Greek religious hierarchy which\n dominated the Orthodox millet, leading first to pressure for religious\n independence, granted to the Bulgarian Orthodox Exarchate in 1870, to the\n Serbian Church in 1879, and to the Rumanian Church in 1885, with subsequent\n aspirations for, and achievement of, political independence following...>>\n\n page 188:\n\n <<...They [new nationalist leaders] were greatly assisted in their\n campaigns against the Ottomans both by the diplomatic and consular\n representatives of the major Powers of Europe and also by Christian\n missionaries, who emphasized feelings of Christian superiority and\n hatred for Muslims and Jews which fortified the religious as well as\n ethnic bases of their pursuit of independence.\n\n Christian nationalism, based as much on religious as on ethnic identity,\n soon resurrected the medieval bigotries which had devastated both Jews\n and Muslims and consequently had driven them together in the past.\n Vicious anti-Muslim and anti-Semitic movements developed, involving\n large-scale persecutions and massacres carried out by invading armies,\n by the independent states that resulted, also by Christian subjects\n who remained within the Empire, particularly because of Jewish and Muslim\n support for Ottoman integrity in fear of their fate in the emergent\n nationalist states of Southeastern Europe. The results were explosive\n and damaging.\n\n The invading armies of Russia and Austria as well as the revolting\n nationalists and, later, successfully established independent Christian\n states, committed systematic genocide against Jews and Muslims throughout\n the nineteenth century, despite Great Power admonitions to the contrary\n in the treaties of Paris (1858) and Berlin (1878),...>>\n\n page 188:\n\n <<...As the peoples of Southeastern Europe achieved their independence,\n their Muslim and Jewish minorities were systematically persecuted and\n massacred, and those who survived were driven beyond the ever-shrinking\n boundaries of the retreating Ottoman Empire in a kind of slaughter which\n had not been seen since the dispersal of the Jews from Palestine centuries\n earlier.\n\n This sort of genocide had begun as long before as the late sixteenth\n century, with the Rumanian Principalities taking the lead, as united\n Rumania did subsequently during the later years of the nineteenth\n century. In 1579 the ruler of Moldavia, Peter the Lame, banished its\n Jews because of their competition with its Christian merchants. When\n Prince Micheal the Brave revolted against the Ottomans in the Rumanian\n principalities of Wallachia and Moldavia in 1593, he ordered the massacre\n of all the Jews as well as Turks in Bucharest.>>\n\n page 189:\n\n <>\n\n page 190 (second paragraph):\n\n <>\n\n page 190 (third paragraph):\n\n <>\n\n page 193 (last paragraph):\n\n <>\n\n page 194 (last paragraph):\n\n <>\n\n[14] Shlomo Rozanes, Korot Hayehudim Beturkiyah Vebeartzot Hakedem:\n Hadorot Haachronim (Jerusalem, 1945), pp.42-44, cited Yitzchak Kerem,\n 'The Influence of Anti-Semitism on Jewish Immigration Patterns from\n Greece to the Ottoman Empire in the 19th Century', pp.2, 14.\n\n[15] Maxime Raybaud, Memoires sur la Grece, pour servir a l'histoire de la\n Guerre de l'Independence (2 Vols, Paris, 1824), pp.5-19; Galante,\n Turcs et Juifs (Istanbul, 1932), 76-77.\n\n[16] Rev. T.S. Hughes, Travels in Greece and Albania (2nd edn, 2 vols,\n London, 1830), II, 194-95.\n\n[17] Rev. John Hartley, Researches in Greece and the Levant (London, 1831),\n 207, quoted in Yitzchak Kerem, 'Jewish Immigration Patterns from Greece\n to the Ottoman Empire in the Nineteenth Century', published paper\n delivered at the Comite International d'Etudes Pre-Ottomanes et Ottomanes,\n VIII Symposium, 'Decision-Making and the Transmission of Authority\n in the Turkic System', University of Minnesota, Minneapolis,\n Minnesota, 14-19 August 1988, p.4.\n\n[18] Hartley, ibid., pp.206-7, William Martin Leake, Travels in Northern\n Greece (2 Vols, London, 1835) II, 231-32, 609; Errikos Sevillas,\n Athens-Auschwitz (Athens, 1983), p.ix, quoted in Kerem, ibid., p.14.\n\n[19] Documented in Kerem, ibid., pp.14-19. Pearl L. Preschel, The Jews\n of Corfu (Greece), Unpublished Ph.D. dissertation, New York University,\n 1984. Goerge Finlay, History of the Greek Revolution (London, 1861),\n 172, 179-86; See also 'Greece', EJ VII, 876-77.\n\n[20] Yoannina Vasdraveli, Ee Thessaloniki: Kata Ton Agona Tis Aneksantizias\n (Salonica, 1946), pp.19-35; Yitzchak Kerem, An Outline of the History\n of Jews of Selonica (in Hebrew) (Museum of Kibbutz Lahoma, Getaot, 1985),\n p.21, quoted in Kerem, ibid., p.15.\n\n[21] Kerem, ibid., pp.8-12, 'The Persecution of the Jews', Times (London),\n 16 May 1891; A. Ablagon to AIU, 19 October 1898, AIU, Grece VIII.B.34,\n Schaki (Larissa) to AIU, 23 August/4 September 1893, BAIU, Grece,\n Deuxieme Serie, no.18, 1er et 2e Semestre, 1893; Elia Fraggi (Larissa)\n to AIU, 5 June 1874, AIU Grece, I.C.22; Larissa AIU represantatives\n to AIU, 23 June/5 July 1897, AIU, Grece II.B.16; Jewish Community of\n Canea leaders in Samos to AIU, 3 March, 1897, AIU, Grece VIII.B.35.\n\n[26] Pearl L. Preschel, The Jews of Corfu (Greece), Unpublished Ph.D.\n dissertation, New York University, 1984.\n\n[27] Leon Sciaky, Farewell to Salonica: Portrait of an Era (New York, 1946);\n Edgar Morin, Vidal et les Siens (Paris, Seuil, 1989), 55-67; Paul Dumont,\n 'The Social Structure of the Jewish Community of Salonica at the end of\n the nineteenth century', Southeastern Europe V (1979), 33-72; Galante,\n Turcs VIII, 18-21; Rodrigue, pp.178-80.\n\n[28] A. Cohen, Ecole Secondaire Moise Allatini, Salonica, to AIU, Paris,\n no.7745/7, 4 December 1912, in AIU Archives I C 49.\n\n[29] Mizrahi, President of AIU at Salonica, to AIU (Paris), no.2704/3,\n 25 July 1913. In AIU Archives (Paris) I C 51.\n\n( AIU = Alliance Israelite Universelle, Paris. )\n\nNeed I go on?\n\nSerdar Argic", "Accounts of Anti-Armenian Human Right Violations in Azerbaijan #010\n Prelude to Current Events in Nagorno-Karabakh\n\n +-------------------------------------------------------+\n | |\n | On the way the driver says, \"In fact there aren't any |\n | Armenians left. 'They burned them all, beat them all, |\n | and stabbed them.\" |\n |\t\t\t\t\t\t\t|\n +-------------------------------------------------------+\n\nDEPOSITION OF VANYA BAGRATOVICH BAZIAN\n\n Born 1940\n Foreman\n Baku Spetsmontazh Administration (UMSMR-1)\n\n Resident at Building 36/7, Apartment 9\n Block 14\n Sumgait [Azerbaijan]\n\n\nDuring the first days of the events, the 27th and the 28th [of February], I\nwas away on a business trip. On the 10th I had got my crew, done the paper-\nwork, and left for the Zhdanov District. That's in Azerbaijan, near the\nNagorno Karabagh region.\n\nAfter the 14th, rumors started to the effect that in Karabagh, specifically\nin Stepanakert, an uprising had taken place. They said \"uprising\" in\nAzerbaijani, but I don't think it was really an uprising, just a \ndemonstration. After that the unrest started. Several Armenians living in the \nZhdanov District were injured. How were they injured? They were beaten, even \nwomen; it was said that they were at the demonstrations, but they live here, \nand went from here to Karabagh to demonstrate. After that I felt uneasy. There\nwere some conversations about Armenians among the local population: the\nArmenians had done this, the Armenians had done that. Right there at the site.\nI was attacked a couple of times by kids. Well true, the guys from my crew \nwouldn't let them come at me with cables and knives. After that I felt really \nbad. I didn't know where to go. I up and called home. And my children tell me,\n\"There's unrest everywhere, be careful.\" Well I had a project going on. I told\nthe Second Secretary of the District Party Committee what had been going on \nand said I wanted to take my crew off the site. They wouldn't allow it, they \nsaid, \"Nothing's going to happen to you, we've entrusted the matter to the \npolice, we've warned everyone in the district, nothing will happen to you.\" \nWell, in fact they did especially detail us a policeman to look after me, he \nknows all the local people and would protect me if something happened. This\nman didn't leave me alone for five minutes: he was at work the whole time and \nafterward he spent the night with us, too.\n\nI sense some disquiet and call home; my wife also tells me, \"The situation is\nvery tense, be careful.\"\n\nWe finished the job at the site, and I left for Sumgait first thing on the\nmorning of the 29th. When we left the guys warned me, they told me that I\nshouldn't tell anyone on the way that I was an Armenian. I took someone else's\nbusiness travel documents, in the name of Zardali, and hid my own. I hid it \nand my passport in my socks. We set out for Baku. Our guys were on the bus, \nthey sat behind, and I sat up front. In Baku they had come to me and said that\nthey had to collect all of our travel documents just in case. As it turns out \nthey knew what was happening in Sumgait.\n\nI arrive at the bus station and there they tell me that the city of Sumgait is\nclosed, there is no way to get there. That the city is closed off and the \nbuses aren't running. Buses normally leave Baku for Sumgait almost every two\nminutes. And suddenly--no buses. Well, we tried to get there via private\ndrivers. One man, an Azerbaijani, said, \"Let's go find some other way to get\nthere.\" They found a light transport vehicle and arranged for the driver to\ntake us to Sumgait.\n\nHe took us there. But the others had said, \"I wouldn't go if you gave me a\nthousand rubles.\" \"Why?\" \"Because they're burning the city and killing the\nArmenians. There isn't an Armenian left.\" Well I got hold of myself so I could\nstill stand up. So we squared it away, the four of us got in the car, and we \nset off for Sumgait. On the way the driver says, \"In fact there aren't any\nArmenians left. 'They burned them all, beat them all, and stabbed them.\" Well \nI was silent. The whole way--20-odd miles--I was silent. The driver asks me, \n\"How old are you, old man?\" He wants to know: if I'm being that quiet, not \nsaying anything, maybe it means I'm an Armenian. \"How old are you?\" he asks \nme. I say, \"I'm 47.\" \"I'm 47 too, but I call you 'old man'.\" I say, \"It \ndepends on God, each person's life in this world is different.\" I look much\nolder than my years, that's why he called me old man. Well after that he was\nsilent, too.\n\nWe're approaching the city, I look and see tanks all around, and a cordon.\nBefore we get to the Kavkaz store the driver starts to wave his hand. Well, he\nwas waving his hand, we all start waving our hands. I'm sitting there with\nthem, I start waving my hand, too. I realized that this was a sign that meant\nthere were no Armenians with us.\n\nI look at the city--there is a crowd of people walking down the middle of the \nstreet, you know, and there's no traffic. Well probably I was scared. They\nstopped our car. People were standing on the sidewalks. They have armature \nshafts, and stones . . . And they stopped us . . .\n\nAlong the way the driver tells us how they know who's an Armenian and who's \nnot. The Armenians usually . . . For example, I'm an Armenian, but I speak \ntheir language very well. Well Armenians usually pronounce the Azeri word for \n\"nut,\" or \"little nut,\" as \"pundukh,\" but \"fundukh\" is actually correct. The \npronunciations are different. Anyone who says \"pundukh,\" even if they're not \nArmenian, they immediately take out and start to slash. Another one says, \n\"There was a car there, with five people inside it,\" he says. \"They started \nhitting the side of it with an axe and lit it on fire. And they didn't let the\npeople out,\" he says, \"they wouldn't let them get out of the car.\" I only saw \nthe car, but the driver says that he saw everything. Well he often drives from\nBaku to Sumgait and back . . .\n\nWhen they stop us we all get out of the car. I look and there's a short guy,\nhis eyes are gleaming, he has an armature shaft in one hand and a stone in\nthe other and asks the guys what nationality they are one by one. \"We're\nAzerbaijani,' they tell him, 'no Armenians here.\" He did come up to me when \nwe were pulling our things out and says, \"Maybe you're an Armenian, old man?\" \nBut in Azerbaijani I say, \"You should be ashamed of yourself!\" And . . . he \nleft. Turned and left. That was all that happened. What was I to do? I had \nto . . . the city was on fire, but I had to steal my children out of my own \nhome.\n\nThey stopped us at the entrance to Mir Street, that's where the Kavkaz store \nand three large, 12-story buildings are. That's the beginning of down-town. I \nsaw that burned automobile there, completely burned, only metal remained. I \ncouldn't figure out if it was a Zhiguli or a Zaporozhets. Later I was told it \nwas a Zhiguli. And the people in there were completely incinerated. Nothing \nremained of them, not even any traces. That driver had told me about it, and I\nsaw the car myself. The car was there. The skeleton, a metallic carcass. About\n30 to 40 yards from the Kavkaz store.\n\nI see a military transport, an armored personnel carrier. The hatches are\nclosed. And people are throwing armature shafts and pieces of iron at it, the\ncrowd is. And I hear shots, not automatic fire, it's true, but pistol shots.\nSeveral shots. There were Azerbaijanis crowded around that personnel carrier. \nSomeone in the crowd was shooting. Apparently they either wanted to kill the \nsoldiers or get a machine gun or something. At that point there was only one \narmored personnel carrier. And all the tanks were outside the city, cordoning \noff Sumgait.\n\nI walked on. I see two Azerbaijanis going home from the plant. I can tell by \ntheir gait that they're not bandits, they're just people, walking home. I\njoined them so in case something happened, in case someone came up to us\nand asked questions, either of us would be in a position to answer, you see.\nBut I avoided the large groups because I'm a local and might be quickly \nrecognized. I tried to keep at a distance, and walked where there were fewer\npeople. Well so I walked into Microdistrict 2, which is across from our block.\nI can't get into our block, but I walked where there were fewer people, so as \nto get around. Well there I see a tall guy and 25 to 30 people are walking \nbehind him. And he's shouting into a megaphone: \"Comrades, the Armenian-\nAzerbaijani war has begun!\"\n\nThe police have megaphones like that. So they're talking and walking around \nthe second microdistrict. I see that they're coming my way, and turn off \nbehind a building. I noticed that they walked around the outside buildings, \nand inside the microdistricts there were about 5 or 6 people standing on every\ncorner, and at the middles of the buildings, and at the edges. What they were \ndoing I can't say, because I couldn't get up close to them, I was afraid. But \nthe most important thing was to get away from there, to get home, and at least\nfind out if my children were alive or not . . .\n\n April 20, 1988\n Yerevan\n\n\t\t - - - reference - - -\n\n[1] _The Sumgait Tragedy; Pogroms against Armenians in Soviet Azerbaijan,\n Volume I, Eyewitness Accounts_, edited by Samuel Shahmuradian, forward by\n Yelena Bonner, 1990, published by Aristide D. Caratzas, NY, pages 158-160\n\n", "\n\nWell, your Armenian grandparents were fascist. As early as 1934, K. S. \nPapazian asserted in 'Patriotism Perverted' that the Armenians\n\n 'lean toward Fascism and Hitlerism.'[1]\n\nAt that time, he could not have foreseen that the Armenians would\nactively assume a pro-German stance and even collaborate in World\nWar II. His book was dealing with the Armenian genocide of Turkish\npopulation of eastern Anatolia. However, extreme rightwing ideological\ntendencies could be observed within the Dashnagtzoutune long before\nthe outbreak of the Second World War.\n\nIn 1936, for example, O. Zarmooni of the 'Tzeghagrons' was quoted\nin the 'Hairenik Weekly:' \n\n\"The race is force: it is treasure. If we follow history we shall \n see that races, due to their innate force, have created the nations\n and these have been secure only insofar as they have reverted to\n the race after becoming a nation. Today Germany and Italy are\n strong because as nations they live and breath in terms of race.\n On the other hand, Russia is comparatively weak because she is\n bereft of social sanctities.\"[2]\n\n[1] K. S. Papazian, 'Patriotism Perverted,' (Boston, Baikar Press\n 1934), Preface.\n[2] 'Hairenik Weekly,' Friday, April 10, 1936, 'The Race is our\n Refuge' by O. Zarmooni.\n\n\nSerdar Argic", "\n[KAAN] Who the hell is this guy David Davidian. I think he talks too much..\n\nI am your alter-ego!\n\n[KAAN] Yo , DAVID you would better shut the f... up.. O.K ??\n\nNo, its' not OK! What are you going to do? Come and get me? \n\n[KAAN] I don't like your attitute. You are full of lies and shit. \n\nIn the United States we refer to it as Freedom of Speech. If you don't like \nwhat I write either prove me wrong, shut up, or simply fade away! \n\n[KAAN] Didn't you hear the saying \"DON'T MESS WITH A TURC!!\"...\n\nNo. Why do you ask? What are you going to do? Are you going to submit me to\nbodily harm? Are you going to kill me? Are you going to torture me?\n\n[KAAN] See ya in hell..\n\nWrong again!\n\n[KAAN] Timucin.\n\nAll I did was to translate a few lines from Turkish into English. If it was\nso embarrassing in Turkish, it shouldn't have been written in the first place!\nDon't kill the messenger!\n", "(...)\n(...)\n\nAtt man skulle bli tvyngen att {ndra premisserna kunde man inte lista\nut p} f|rhand. Huvudsak att man inte flyttar *ner* fel lag.\n\\stersund var en solklar fix som sagt, men V{stervik!! Att det beror p}\nNyk|ping tror jag inte p}, man kunde ju lika g{rna \"flytta ner\" Roma\ntill s|dra (iaf om man g}r efter bredgraderna). Mest r{ttvist vore att\nl}ta Tierp och V{stervik g|ra upp, men d} skulle Roma/Nyk|pinks vara\neller inte vara i |stra ocks} avg|ras. Vad skulle de s{ga om det?\nDet st|rsta felet med }rets indelning {r *exakt* samma som f|rra }ret,\nfast v{rre. DET [R INTE R[TVIST INDELAT, sportligt sett. Vallentuna var\nen match fr}n att g} upp till Allsvenskan f|rra }ret ist{llet gick \nG{vle upp. Tror ni n}n av dem lyckas lika bra i }r?\nAIK, HIF, SSK och HIK ska sl}ss om tv} platser!! Om man hadde placerat\ndessa i var sin division skulle de vara sj{lvklara favoriter till en\nplats i Allsvenskan, men nu m}ste tv} ge vika. Var finns r{ttvisan i det?\n:-( Jag har h|rt att HIK har l{mnat in en protest till f|rbundet ang{ende\nindelningen i |stra.\nMitt f|rslag vore att l}ta 3:orna i varje division kvalspela om tv}\nplatser i Allsvenskan och efter jul skulle man kunna sl} ihop de fyra\ndivisionerna till tv}, en s|der och en norr. P} s} s{tt bestraffas inte\nett lag som kommer fr}n en trakt d}r det finns m{nga bra lag.\n\nEn kul grej som jag |nskar att man inf|rde {r att l}ta vinnaren i\nAllsvenskan f} spela i SM-slutspelet. Det skulle bli en extra krydda till\ndivision ett ishockeyn om lagen k{nde att de var \"inom r{ckh}ll\" till\nSM-bucklan. Det skulle kanske p} sikt ocks} kunna minska skillnaderna\nmellan lag i elitserien och division ett. Vad s{js?\n\n\n-- \n\n\n/Marek\n\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\nMarek.Repinski@eos.ericsson.se | \"Man skall inte anv{nda fr{mmande \n Ericsson Telecom AB | ord om man har en adekvat inhemsk\n System Design Division | vokabul{r disponibel\"\n - Sweden - | Gunnar Emanuel Str{ng (1906-92)", "\n\nLet's face it, if the words don't get into your noggin in the first place, \nthere's no hope. Now tell us, 'SDPA.ORG', a mouthpiece of the fascist x-Soviet \nArmenian Government: what was your role in the murder of Orhan Gunduz and \nKemal Arikan? How many more Muslims will be slaughtered by 'SDPA.ORG' as \npublicly declared and filed with the legal authorities? \n\n\n \"...that more people have to die...\" \n\n SDPA <91@urartu.UUCP>\n\n \"Yes, I stated this and stand by it.\"\n\n SDPA <255@urartu.UUCP>\n\n\n \tJanuary 28, 1982 - Los Angeles\n\tKemal Arikan is slaughtered by two Armenians while driving to work. \n\n \tMarch 22, 1982 - Cambridge, Massachusetts\n\tPrelude to grisly murder. A gift and import shop belonging to\n\tOrhan Gunduz is blown up. Gunduz receives an ultimatum: Either \n he gives up his honorary position or he will be \"executed\". He \n refuses. \"Responsibility\" is claimed by JCAG and SDPA.\n\n \tMay 4, 1982 - Cambridge, Massachusetts\n\tOrhan Gunduz, the Turkish honorary consul in Boston, would not bow \n\tto the Armenian terrorist ultimatum that he give up his title of \n\t\"honorary consul\". Now he is attacked and murdered in cold blood.\n\tPresident Reagan orders an all-out manhunt-to no avail. An eye-\n\twitness who gave a description of the murderer is shot down. He \n\tsurvives... but falls silent. One of the most revolting \"triumphs\" in \n\tthe senseless, mindless history of Armenian terrorism. Such a murder \n\tbrings absolutely nothing - except an ego boost for the murderer \n\twithin the Armenian terrorist underworld, which is already wallowing \n\tin self-satisfaction.\n \nWere you involved in the murder of Sarik Ariyak? \n\n \tDecember 17, 1980 - Sydney\n\tTwo Nazi Armenians massacre Sarik Ariyak and his bodyguard, Engin \n Sever. JCAG and SDPA claim responsibility.\n\n\nSource: Edward K. Boghosian, \"Radical Group Hosts Well-Attended Solidarity\nMeeting,\" The Armenian Reporter, May 1, 1986, pp. 1 & 18.\n\nATHENS, Greece - An array of representatives of Greek political parties,\nincluding the ruling PASOK party, and a host of political groups, both\nArmenian and non-Armenian, joined to voice their solidarity with the \nArmenian people in their pursuit of their cause and activities of a new\nArmenian political force were voiced here on Sunday, April 20 during\nthe 2nd International Meeting of Solidarity with the Armenian People. And\njudging from encouraging messages offered by the representatives of these\npolitical groups and organizations, at least here in Greece, the Armenian\nCause enjoys abundant support from a wide spectrum of the political world.\n\nThe International Meeting of Solidarity was sponsored by the Greek branch of\nthe Armenian Popular Movement, a comparatively new political force headed\nby younger generations of Armenians, who openly profess their support of the\narmed struggle and of the Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia\n(ASALA). The organization has branches in various European and Middle Eastern\ncountries and the United States although some of these branches appear to\nhave gone through a switch of loyalties because of the split within the ranks\nof ASALA...\n\nVoicing the support of PASOK, the ruling party in Greece, to the Armenian\npeople, was Mr. Charalambidi Michalis, a member of the Central Committee of\nthe party and the Greek member of the Permanent People's Tribunal...\nExplaining the goals and aspirations of the Armenian Popular Movement \nwas Ara Sarkisian. Significant was the address delivered by Mr. Bassam \nAbu-Salim, on behalf of the Popular Front for the movement's continued \nsupport of the Armenians' armed struggle in their pursuit of their cause, \npledging that Palestinian operated and run training camps would always be \nopen to Armenian youth who need training for such a struggle. Later, Mr. \nAbu-Salim, answering a question put to him by this writer, affirmed that \nhis organization had always trained Armenian members of ASALA and that\nthis policy will continue. \"The doors of our camps are always open to \nArmenian freedom fighters,\" he affirmed.\n\nAmong the prominent Greek politicians who attended the conference was the son\nof Prime Minister Papandreou, who himself holds a post in the Greek cabinet;\ntwo members of the Cypriot Parliament who had journeyed to Athens for the\nspecific purpose of attending the international gathering; representatives of\nthe Christian Democratic party, EDIK Center party, two wings of the Communist\nparty, representatives of an assortment of labor unions and trade associations,\na number of mayors of Greek towns and cities; two Greek members of the\nEuropean Parliament and other members of the Greek Parliament were also among\nthose who participated in the international conference. Also on hand to follow\nthe deliberations was the ambassador of Bulgaria in Athens.\n\nMore than significant was the large number of messages received by the \norganizers, including the following: Palestinian National Revolutionary\nMovement, Fatah; Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General\nCommand; the Central Committee of the Palestinian National Liberation\nMovement-Fatah; the Socialist Progressive Party of Lebanon; Arab Socialist\nLabor Party; the Kurdistan Democratic Union of Iraq; and numerous other\ninternational groups, all noted for their radical stand in the Israeli-\nPalestinian conflict.\n\n SUPPORT FROM ARF-RM\n\nAmong messages received from Armenian groups was the Armenian Revolutionary\nFederation-Revolutionary Movement, the group that has claimed the abduction\nand assassination of key party leaders in Lebanon accused of selling out to\nforeign interests and powers. The message clearly gave its support to the\nArmenian Popular Movement pledging that the Revolutionary movement will\ncontinue to \"reveal the realities, no matter how bitter or tragic they are,\"\nto expose the anti-Armenian activities of the leaders of the Dashnag \"Bureau.\"\nThe message was taken as an indication of the link, loose as it may be, that\nexists between the dissident Dashnag group and the Armenian Popular Movement,\nopen supporters of ASALA and armed struggle.\n\nThe Armenian Popular Movement has set up its headquarters in a suburb of the\nGreek capital, known as Neos Kosmos, where there is a large Armenian presence.\nThe headquarters are located in a two-story building, which appears to have\nturned into a beehive of activity on the part of scores of Armenian youth, who\nprefer to give their first names only when invited to introduce themselves...\n\nNow any comment?\n\n#From: vd8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Vedat Dogan)\n#Subject: Re:Addressing.....\n#Message-ID: <1993Apr8.233029.29094@news.columbia.edu>\n\n \n \nn>crap posted by Mr. [(*]!\n \n o boy! \n \n Please, can you tell us why those quotes are \"crap\"?..because you do not \n like them!!!...because they really exist...why?\n \n As I said in my previous posting, those quotes exactly exist in the source \n given by Serdar Argic .. \n \n You couldn't reject it...\n \n \n Here we go again..\n In the book I have, both the front page and the Author's preface give \n the same year: 1923 and 15 January, 1923, respectively!\n (Anyone can check it at her/his library,if not, I can send you the copies of\n pages, please ask by sct) \n \n \nI really don't care what year it was first published(1923 or 1924)\nWhat I care about is what the book writes about murders, tortures,et..in\nthe given quotes by Serdar Argic, and your denial of these quotes..and your\ngroundless accussations, etc. \n \n[...]\n \n \n I claim I have a book in my hand published in 1923(first publication)\n and it exactly has the same quoted info as the book published\n in 1934(Serdar Argic's Reference) has..You couldn't reject it..but, now you\n are avoiding the real issues by twisting around..\n \n Let's see how you lie!..(from 'non-existing' quotes to re-publication)\n \n First you said there was no such a quote in the given reference..You\n called Serdar Argic a liar!..\n I said to you, NO, MR.Davidian, there exactly existed such a quote...\n (I even gave the call number, page numbers..you could't reject it.)\n \n And now, you are lying again and talking about \"modified,re-published book\"\n(without any proof :how, when, where, by whom, etc..)..\n (by the way, how is it possible to re-publish the book in 1923 if it was\n first published in 1924(your claim).I am sure that you have some 'pretty \n well suited theories', as usual)\n \n And I am ready to send the copies of the necessary pages to anybody who\n wants to compare the fact and Mr.Davidian's lies...I also give the call number\n and page numbers again for the library use, which are: \n 949.6 R 198\n \n and the page numbers to verify the quotes:218 and 215\n \n \n \n \n Now, are you claiming that there can't be such a reference by saying \"it is\n not possible...\" ..If not, what is your point?\n \n Differences in the number of pages?\n Mine was published in 1923..Serdar Argic's was in 1934..\n No need to use the same book size and the same letter \n charachter in both publications,etc, etc.. does it give you an idea!!\n \n The issue was not the number of pages the book has..or the year\n first published.. \n And you tried to hide the whole point..\n the point is that both books have the exactly the same quotes about\n how moslems are killed, tortured,etc by Armenians..and those quotes given \n by Serdar Argic exist!! \n It was the issue, wasn't-it? \n \n you were not able to object it...Does it bother you anyway? \n \n You name all these tortures and murders (by Armenians) as a \"crap\"..\n People who think like you are among the main reasons why the World still\n has so many \"craps\" in the 1993. \n \n Any question?\n \nSerdar Argic", null ], "marker": { "opacity": 0.5, "size": 5 }, "mode": "markers+text", "name": "13_the_of_and", "text": [ "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "13_the_of_and" ], "textfont": { "size": 12 }, "type": "scattergl", "x": { "bdata": "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", "dtype": "f4" }, "y": { "bdata": "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", "dtype": "f4" } }, { "hoverinfo": "text", "hovertext": [ " >I guess that you are a person who dislikes contact with\n >people of ethnic minority. However, your argument again falls\n >flat on its face. You state that you, under an\n >anti-discrimination bill, would be forced to associate with\n >others [homosexuals, I assume] against your will. How do you\n >know that you do not associate with them now, except they may\n >be closeted? Would you like to change your argument to read\n >\"forced to associate with truthfully homosexual people\n >against my will\"? You have no proof that anyone you now know\n >may not be homosexual and this punches a large hole in your\n >argument. Is it your belief that a homosexual comes in only\n >one flavour (sic) and that is the camp mincing type? Prove\n >it. You cannot.\n\nYou are quite incoherent. Perhaps YOU should be forced to associate with\nsome people against YOUR will. I think a nice large group of skinheads\nin a locked basement for 12 hours will wonderfully educate you.\n\nAfter all, as you don't believe in Freedom Of Asscoiation, you can't\ncomplain can you.\n\nBloody turdlet ...\n\n\n-- \nThere are actually people that STILL believe Love Canal was some kind of\nenvironmental disaster. Weird, eh?", "\nNote that the laws that don't agree with you were passed to protect\na class of people who couldn't get justice from the state courts;\nspecifically civil rights workers in Missisippi in the 60's. The \nfederal protection of individual rights supersedes the non-feasance\nof the state. Something similar has long been traditional ( well\nhe's queer so I beat him up...) for gays\n\n\nAs Anatole France said; \"The law in its impartial majesty forbids the\nrich as well as the poor from sleeping under bridges.\"\n\nEquality of law can be construed in any number of ways. For example\nthe fact that all property thefts, regardless of value, are not\npunished equally is an inequality which protects those who have\na lot of money from having it stolen. You could easily define\nequality to regard the property in terms of it's significance\nfor the owner. This would a form of equality that would be skewed\ntoward poorer people.\n\nIn fact, most anti-gay bashing laws are constructed to offer equal \nprotection. They make it an offense to damage people based on a \nmotivation of hatred for sexual orientation. Thus the law in its\nimpartial majesty protects hets as well as gays from being bashed.\nI'm sure that's a great relief to Douglas Meier.\n\n\n", "[In response to a report by CBN News correspondent Ken Lormond about a\nmeeting between Slick Willie and homosexual activists:]\n\nLormond: \"But Clinton will not be attending a rally by homosexuals in\nWashington later this month. He will instead be out of town, on a\nretreat with Senate Democrats.\"\n\nRobertson: \"Yeah, he'd better retreat.\" [Laughter, followed by\nsustained applause]\n\n[Later, in a report by correspondent Deborah Whitsen on the fizzling\nboycott instigated by homosexuals against Colorado:]\n\nWhitsen: \"Colorado ski resorts have seen record crowds this year\ndespite a call by homosexual activists for boycott of the state ...\nThere have been record snowfalls in the mountains this year, and the\nskiers have been coming in droves ...\"\n\nRobertson: \"And God said, let it snow ...\" [More sustained applause]", "\n\nPerhaps you should change your name to Clayton \"Mr Logic(NOT!)\" Cramer!\nPlease give evidence of the above statement or shut up. I believe that I\nmay have answered that elsewhere, amongst your other ravings.\n\n\n", "\nOh yeah, and men just haaaaate to brag about \"how many woman they've had.\"", "\n\nWhat is \"SO\" supposed to signify? I prefer the companionship of a\nperson, not a euphemism.\n\n\nThankfully, you got the gender right. For I am not a deviant.\n\n\nSexual deviants do not comprise a \"political minorit[y]\".\n\n\nI only associate with girls who do indeed have self-respect. But were\nI to find myself with the sort who would be inclined to head out the\ndoor on account of my views regarding the aberrant behavior known as\n\"homosexuality\", I would encourage her to indeed do so, and I would\nfurther advise her not to let the door whack her on the backside on\nthe way out. Who needs such an airhead?\n\n\n\nOh, I can't do anything _BUT_ count on it. After all, it is\ninevitable, for it is part of the natural order of things. Throughout\nhistory, nature has always asserted itself. Don't be so arrogant as\nto assume that this foolish and misguided generation can change the\nnature of man where practically every other generation has failed.\nGreater men than you haven't been able to do this. The above _MOST_\n_CERTAINLY_ _WILL_ happen, no matter how much you may wish to pretend\notherwise.\n\nMoreover, I'm not your \"sweetheart\".", "\n Now which is it? Are you going to comdemn national media, then turn around\n and use it to support some position you present? Seems somewhat contradictory\n doesn't it.\n\nI believe this true when we speak of physical data, in the\nsense of pure science. But when we speak of data that revolve\naround social sciences then we have to be careful.\n\n\nI quite agree. But these are cases or 'news events' that contain\npolitics, social science information, sociology, etc. and at\nbest are reflections of the group that reports them.\n\nAs you have pointed out, it is difficult to report that the\ntemperature was 98 degrees when it was 60 degrees and have\npeople believe you.\n\n\nYes and no. The survey presented, according to Mr. Cramer,\na value called the median- which one used this makes us \nbelieve that 1/2 of the males had 7.3 plus sex partners and\n1/2 of the males had 7.3 or less sex partners. Homosexuals\nare purported to make up only 1%. In this case, the majority\nof people with 7.3 plus sex partners are heterosexual.\n\nIt is my feeling that median was not the intended word usage.\nBut if it is then we have little evidence to support Mr. Cramer\nclaims about gay promiscuity > hetero promiscuity.\n\n Very good- this is a point that I have tried to bring out,\nand as any network news program will show you, it is true.\n\nThe News Media is a business and as such becomes skewed because\nof where its loyalties lie.", "# #The article also contains numbers on the number of sexual partners.\n# #The median number of sexual partners for all men 20-39 was 7.3.\n# #Compared to the table I have already posted from Masters, Johnson,\n# #and Kolodny showing male homosexual partners, it is apparent that\n# #homosexual men are dramatically more promiscuous than the general\n# #male population. It's a shame that we don't have a breakdown for\n# #straight men vs. gay/bi men -- that would show even more dramatically\n# #how much more promiscuous gay/bi men are.\n# \n# Possibly because gay/bi men are less likely to get married?\n\nMarriage isn't a requirement for a couple staying together.\n\n# What was the purpose of this post? If it was to show a mindless obsession\n# with statistics, an incredibly flawed system of reasoning, and a repellent\n# hatemonger agenda, then the purpose was accomplished with panache.\n# \n# (a) Get a clue. (b) Get a life. (c) Get out of my face. I'm not in yours.\n# \n# ----bi Andrew D. Simchik\t\t\t\t\tSCHNOPIA!\n\nYes you are. When you and the rest of the homosexual community\npass laws to impose your moral codes on me, by requiring me to\nhire, rent to, or otherwise associate with a homosexual against\nmy will, yes, you are in my face. Until homosexuals stop trying\nto impose their morals on me, I will be in your face about this.", "\nYou are forced everyday to associate with people that you do not\nwish to, and there isn't even a law that makes you do it. But \nyou do, becuase you want to go shopping, or go to work, or go to\na public park, or go to a baseball game, etc.", "------------------------------\nWrong, if a bunch of faggots from the tenderloin decide to go straight\nbashing and they selectively target a heterosexual man and beat the bloody\nfuck out of him, they would get charged as well under all the federal laws\nthat exist about violation of civils rights. The focus of their intent is\nhis sexual orientation, and so the law applies to them as well. The\nnational government retains the right to make any laws necessary to\nsufficiently deter and punish any crime against someone's civil rights\nuntil that behavior becomes so well punished that nobody even tries it!\nThe fact is, that at last count, gays were not beating straights for their\nsexual orientation. Thus, the law is getting applied only to the straights\nwho indulge themselves. The federal government or judiciary has the right\nto enforce the 14th amendment guarantee of equal protection under law even\nif it takes 1000 possible charges against people who would violate them. Go\nread your constitutional law. We broke the back of the KKK's harrassment\ncampaign with the same strategy in the early 1900's. So many went to jail\nand for so long that it cut the heart out of the KKK. \n-RSW\n\n----------------------------------------\nThis \"mutation\" as you call it, protects your little butt too, if you\nhappen to be somewhere where you're the wrong \"shade\" for somebody else's\ntaste. If it can be shown that the motive for the assault on you was\nracially motivated, then the full power of these extra laws that bring more\ncharges and punishments will come against those who harmed you. The first\nuse of such laws was well over a hundred years ago, and constitutional\nscholars of all conviction recognize that this right reserved to the\nfederal government is well established and not just some short-lived\npeculiarity, too! Go read some constitutional law for awhile. Maybe you'll\nget it.\n-RSW\n\n--------------------------\n\n\n", "\n\n An addition to anti-discrimination laws which includes homo and bisexuality\n? One would assume it would be because politicians were listening to the people\ncoming up with rational arguments rather than variations on bigotry. Logic\nsometimes prevails.\n BTW, glad to see that you've admitted sexual attraction to children is a\nseperate sexual orientation. Didn't think you had that much honesty.\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\nWhy are you all playing these pathetic number games? The number of people\nshowing up at the MOW hardly constitutes the entire queer populace. I doubt\nthat it constitutes more than a handful of us. I'm queer, and I won't be\nthere, simply because I don't have the time or the transportation. What the\nhell makes you think the participants in the MOW embody more than a minimum\nnumber?\n\nFace it, people, we're everywhere. There are always more of us than you\nthink. Our numbers are constantly GROWING, not diminishing...some of your\nchildren will grow up to join us. Hell, some of MY children may grow up to\njoin us. The best way to deal with this phenomenon is not to fear it and\nblind yourself to it, but to realize that you have nothing to fear. We're\nnot perverts, we're not dangerous, we're just here, and we're human just\nlike you--er, most of you.\n\nIdiots like Cramer and Kaldis can rant all they like. It won't do them one\niota of good.\n\nDrewcifer\n\nP.S. I still can't get over the fact that some people actually believe that\nevery queer in the U.S. would show up at the MOW, and that these numbers are\nmeaningful. And, come to think of it, what about those of us in OTHER\ncountries? Tree.\n", "\nActually, what the study shows is that 2 percent of the men surveyed\n*said* they engaged in homosexual sex and 1 percent *said* they \nconsidered themselves exclusively homosexual.\n\nThe point being that what people say and what they acutally do\nmay be different.\n\nIt is interesting that this clip from the newspaper did not\nmention that difference. Maybe it is conservative media bias. :-)\n\n\n", "# \tActually, I was rather surprised to see an article on this subject\n# (i.e. the \"new, inproved\" survey saying that roughly 1% of men are gay)\n# on the front page of The New York _Times_ recently (I think it was\n# on Thurs, 15 April). The headline was something to the effect of \n# \"New Survey Finds 1% of Men Are Gay\"\n# \n# \tI was shocked, not because the New York _Times_ was running a story\n# on a sex survey (although that was part of it), but because they thought\n# that this news was actually important enough to warrant front page space.\n# I mean, how many people actually CARE how many people are gay (as long as\n# you know how to find/avoid them if you want to)? I don't. \n\nIf you don't care, why was so much effort put into promoting the\n10% lie? Because it was important to scare politicians into\nobedience.\n\n# \t\t\t\t\t\t\t-Matt", "\n##It should be noted that NAMBLA has not been present in the\n##other 600 or so gay parades in the nation. While I view this\n##as an isolated event, I am very troubled by its reccurence.\n\n\n\nThank you for correcting the error in my post to the net.\nThis information came from a newspaper article that was\nfuzzy in my mind. I can only wonder if there have been\nsimilar outcries about NAMBLA's presence in the parades\nof New York and Boston.\n\nYours in Liberation from Molestation,\n\nMark\n\nNorth American Micro-Biological Laboratories Association\nFor a packet containing a sample bulletin, publications list\nand membership information send $1.00 postage to...\n\nNote: Sometimes I do the darndest things while trying to\nsquelch my desire to flame the living daylights out of\nsomebody for their beliefs and/or associations, especially\nif they are so genial... Phil, take it away! :-)", "# # \tActually, I was rather surprised to see an article on this subject\n# # (i.e. the \"new, inproved\" survey saying that roughly 1% of men are gay)\n# # on the front page of The New York _Times_ recently (I think it was\n# # on Thurs, 15 April). The headline was something to the effect of \n# # \"New Survey Finds 1% of Men Are Gay\"\n# \n# Does anyone else see the difference between \"1% of Men Are Gay\" and 1%\n# of Men surveyed *say* they are gay? Does the NY Times think that\n# there is no one \"in the closet\"?\n\nI see. When survey after survey show 1-4%, we are supposed to believe\nONE survey, done with very poor assumptions, with a very atypical\npopulation, 40 years ago when the society was FAR more repressed about\nhomosexuality than it is now. Yeah, right.\n\n# Russ Anderson | Disclaimer: Any statements are my own and do not reflect", "# #I used to think that homosexuals were OK -- but havng now gotten a\n# #chance through USENET to know quite a few, I've realized that I was\n# #misled in my youth. Homosexuals are vicious, screwed-up, often\n# #really evil people.\n# \n# That's a load of shit. If you really have the naivete to believe that the\n# bozos over on soc.motss characterize our entire populace, you need to LIVE a\n# little. Try soc.bi, for example...you'll find almost exclusively a bunch of\n\nYet, the characteristics of soc.motss fit quite well with the other\nevidence that is available. High promiscuity, child sexual abuse\nhistory, support for child molestation advocacy groups like NAMBLA,\nS&M, etc.\n\n# well-adjusted, friendly, humanistic people. And, in any case, I think\n# you'll find that most people are quite different from the persona they\n# present on USENET. For all I know, you're a wonderful, enlightened human\n# being taking the role of hatemonger for satirical effect.\n# \n# Somehow I doubt it, though....\n\nHatemonger: someone who reminds people of why homosexuals are dying\nin such large quantities of AIDS -- because their sexual compulsions\nprevented them from keeping their number of sexual partners below\nfour digits.\n\n# ## I've got a few clues for you. (a) I'm not working to pass any laws. (b)\n# \n# #It's being done in your name.\n# \n# And that makes it my responsibility, I see. Suppose I kill someone in the\n# name of Clayton Cramer. How does that make you a murderer?\n\nIf I know about it, and don't express my disapproval, it certainly\nwould make you suspicious about me, wouldn't it?\n\n# #My morals aren't yours. I wouldn't march in a parade with a group\n# #that advocates child molestation. It doesn't stop homosexuals.\n# \n# I wouldn't march in a parade with a group like that either. And if you're\n# talking about NAMBLA, I think you'll find that they DO NOT advocate child\n# molestation. I also think you'll find that the VAST MAJORITY of homosexuals\n\nThey advocate sex between adults and children, with NO lower limit on\nage. But that's right, homosexuals don't believe that an adult sodomizing\na five year old is child molestation.\n\n# will have no truck with that group anyway.\n\nFooled me. They march in a number of gay parades around the country.\n\n# ## #Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer My opinions, all mine!\n# ## #Relations between people to be by mutual consent, or not at all.\n# ## \n# ## But not between members of the same sex, right? How can you live with such\n# ## hypocrisy?\n# ## \n# ## ----bi Andrew D. Simchik\t\t\t\t\tSCHNOPIA!\n# \n# #Sure. Whatever consenting adults want to do in private is none of\n# #the government's business. YOU are the ones that want more laws\n# #telling me what to do in private.\n# \n# Quit lumping me in with groups. The fact is that homophobia is an evil,\n# unjustified prejudice, just like racism or sexism. You can't reject all but\n# one of those.\n# \n# Drewcifer\n\nIt is NOTHING like racism or sexism. You CHOOSE to be a homosexual.\nMy distaste for homosexuality is because of what homosexuals DO.", "\nYes, and of course the Kinsey Report taken 50 years ago in much more liberal \ntimes regarding homosexuality.........\n\n\nOr smart enough to realize that that argument would have to apply to every \nsurvey regarding homosexuality. Therefore, they would look stupid. (Actually, \nIdid see Bryant Gumble bring that point up. Hee, hee).\n\n\n", "\nLocal media hasn't said much, if anything, about the MOW. Also, when\nI called a straight friend in Arlington to tell him I would be on his\ndoorstep this weekend, he didn't know anything at all about the march.\nThis is a gay-sympathetic person who notices things like this. I\nthought it was strange that he was unaware of what was happening. It\nmade me wonder just how much coverage is getting to \"mainstream\" America.\n", "\n\n\nI don't understand what you are getting at here. If the chances of \npromiscuity are larger, yet the rate of promiscuity is lower in the heterosexual\ncommunity, doesn't that imply that the homo/bi sexual population is then \neven more promiscuous than the raw statistics imply? \n(No axe to grind here I'm just a scientist and I hate to see statistics abused.)\n\n\nI am a hetero man and have had sex with one woman in my life (my wife). It is \nvery pleasing to me to be able to say that. I hope you have the same feeling\nas I do. I also wish that you could (if you wanted) experience the joys and\ntrials of being committed to someone for life (there is something about marriage\nthat makes the commitment much greater than one might expect).\n\n\n\nDon't forget about the culture. Sadly, we don't (as a society) look upon\nhomosexuality as normal (and as we are all too well aware, there are alot\nof people who condemn it). As a result, the gay population is not encouraged\nto develop \"non-promiscuous\" relationships. In fact there are many roadblocks\nput in the way of such committed relationships. It is as if the heterosexual\ncommunity puts these blocks there so as to perpetuate the claim that gays \nare immoral. \"My, if we allowed gays to marry, raise children ... we might\njust find out they're as moral as we are, can't have that can we?\" \n\nJust some thoughts. Flame away. :)", "#1\n\nClayton, my man...\n\nYou are a tad out of touch....\n\nFirst, gay comunities all over the country are in the process of excluding NAMBLA\nfrom parades etc.\n\n#2\n\nNobody from NAMBLA is gonna get a job in a day care centre. The same liberals you are\nupset about are also passing laws that make tough background checks for childcare\npeople.\n\n#3\n\nTell me, how would you feel if your employer fired you for your antigay post on the\ninternet? Would you be upset ? I`ll bet you would be pissed!\nTo some, your posts ,ight make the company look bad.\nWhile your posts offend me I dont think it would be right for you to get fired over\nit.\n\nI dont believe the gay comunity is asking for hiring quotas like the affirmative\naction laws of the 60's did.\nMy understanding is that the gay community just wants the same rights the srtraights\nhave. I dont think people should have their leases cancelled when their landlord\nfinds out they are gay. I dont think that when someone sees someone walk out of\na gay business and then blabs it all over work that the gay person gets fired.\nDo you REALLY think these are justified ?\n\n#4\n\nClayton, I am told you are a parent a couple times over.\nHave you been following the strip in the paper \"For Better or For Worse\" ?\n\nI honestly want your opinion as a parent on the strip. \n\nDo you really care about your childeren\nas much as friends of mine tell me ? How much do you care about your childeren ?\nHow much do you care about other people's childeren? Do you care about MY childeren?\nDo you care about my sister's childeren ?\n\nIf one of your kids told you he/she was gay, would you throw them out of your home\nin the middle of the night?\n\nWould you approve of your childeren driving down to San Francisco to trow bottles\nat and beat up on gay people? Would you condone your childeren beating up on someone\nelses childeren ?\n", "# ##So tell me---what's immoral about homosexuality?\n# \n# CC:\n# #The promiscuity and fetishism that characterizes it.\n# \n# Hmmm.\n# \n# I've told you more than once that I've been monogamous for almost 4 years\n# now, and that I really don't get into fetishes.\n\nThen you are nearly the only homosexual who is. I don't believe you.\nYou've changed your story before.\n\n# Yet you maintain my homosexual activity is still immoral.\n# \n# Care to elaborate?\n# \n# For that matter, explain why fetishes are immoral?\n# \n# kane@{buast7,astro}.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) Astronomy Dept, Boston University,\n\nThe fact that your fetish is more important than who you are making\nlove to. (Actually, in your case, \"having sex with.\")", "I have been looking at some of the recent productions on homosexuality\nand decided that I was interested in videotaped copies of these. If\nanyone can help me out here, I would very much appreciate it.\n\nHere is what I am looking for:\n\n* - \"The Gay Agenda\" produced by Ty Beeson's group The Report.\n\n* - John Ankerberg's recent series \"Understanding Homosexuality and\nExperiencing Genuine Change.\"\n\n* - James Kennedy's special on homosexuality which aired this week,\nand the portion of the previous week's program which discussed \"The\nGay Agenda.\"\n\nI will not pay money for copies, since this is copyrighted material\nand that would be illegal. I will pay for return postage. If\nsomebody can think of something they would desire in trade, please let\nme know and I'll see what I can do.\n\nOh, BTW, I'm watching the March On Washington right now on C-SPAN. \nOther than the fact that I'm generally repulsed by what I'm watching,\nI found one thing of interest. General David Dinkins just finished\nspeaking, and remarked that the New York City delegation consists of\nabout 200,000 people. Funny, I don't see 200,000 people out there,\nperiod. Must've been quite the party scene last night. Or maybe\ntheir exaggerations were just too much.\n\nSean Patrick Ryan****fsspr@aurora.alaska.edu or sean@freds.cojones.com\n3215 Oregon Dr. #2, Anchorage, AK 99517-2048****907-272-9184****fnord\nAbortion stops a beating heart****Disclaimer: I didn't inhale, either\nIDITAROD SCOREBOARD 1993 - MEN 16, WOMEN 5****Read alt.flame.sean-ryan", "\n\nGood grief! I do believe that for once you may have an argument which may\nbe discussed intelligently!\n\nI guess that you are a person who dislikes contact with people of ethnic\nminority. However, your argument again falls flat on its face. You state\nthat you, under an anti-discrimination bill, would be forced to associate\nwith others [homosexuals, I assume] against your will. How do you know that\nyou do not associate with them now, except they may be closeted? Would you\nlike to change your argument to read \"forced to associate with truthfully\nhomosexual people against my will\"? You have no proof that anyone you\nnow know may not be homosexual and this punches a large hole in your\nargument. Is it your belief that a homosexual comes in only one flavour (sic)\nand that is the camp mincing type? Prove it. You cannot.\n\nI must admit though, that it looks as if you actually thought about your response\nthis time instead of just raving.\n\n\n", "\n\nApparently not.\n\nIn response to his claim that it \"terrifies\" gay people not to be able\nto \"indoctrinate children to our lifestyle\" (or words to that effect),\nI sent Roger a very calm, carefully-written, detailed letter\nexplaining simply why the BSA policy does, indeed terrify me. I did\nnot use inflammatory language and left myself extremely open for an\nanswer. Thus far, I have not received an answer. I can conclude only\nthat Roger considers his position either indefensible or simply not\nworth defending.\n\n\nIn fact, that's exactly the point: people can control their behavior.\nBecause of that fact, there is no need for a blanket ban on\nhomosexuals.\n\n\nYou tell me.\n", "\n\n\nPossibly because gay/bi men are less likely to get married?\n\nWhat was the purpose of this post? If it was to show a mindless obsession\nwith statistics, an incredibly flawed system of reasoning, and a repellent\nhatemonger agenda, then the purpose was accomplished with panache.\n\n(a) Get a clue. (b) Get a life. (c) Get out of my face. I'm not in yours.\n\nDrewcifer", "\nMr. Cramer, when are you going to stop indulging in such blatant lies?\nThis is not only not true, you know damned well that it's not true. None\nof your research supports this; no mental health expert has taken this\nposition. This is *your own* opinion which is not backed up by any\nresearch or any knowledge.\n\nAccording to one survey, done in San Francisco, the number of heterosexual\nmen who were molested as children was on the order of 5%. The number of\nhomosexual men who were molested as children was on the order of 8%.\nSource: a book on sexual abuse of children by David Finkelhor (sorry,\nthe title escapes me).\n\nConclusions that can be drawn from this: none.\n\n\nOh, you definitely have a choice. You realize, of course, that you\nare approaching the two-year anniversary of your crusade. How are\nyou planning on celebrating two years of lies?\n\nIncidentally, we are still waiting your crusade against African-Americans,\nwomen, and other minorities who also want to \"impose their morality on\nothers\". After all, they also want the government to \"tell peaceful\npeople how to live.\" Therefore, you really \"have no choice\", but to\ncontinue to point out that being a woman or an African-American is not\na lifestyle, but a sickness.\n\nIt's bullshit, Mr. Cramer. It was bullshit when you began this crusade\nand it's still bullshit. I am continually amazed at the depths to which\nyou'll stoop to carry on this deliberate attack.", "\n\n What *exactly* does the American Constitution say about \"the right \nto association\" ? \n Homosexuals, whether Clayton likes it or not, are as much members\nof society as he is. As such they have the right to participate and\nhave an equal opportunity to pursue their goals.\n No-one is saying that Clayton should be forced to associate with\nqueerfolk in his private life (one suspects the gays in question would\nobject also 8-) ), but by proclaiming the general right not to associate\nwith them in the *public* sphere (which includes housing, hiring, etc),\nhe's giving his right to non-association priority over their rights to\nequal access to opportunity.\n Historically, people can associate publically with disliked groups\nwith very little ill-effect, however cutting a group off from normal\ncommerce has a severe impact on their lives.\n Clayton, why exactly should your \"right\" to non-association in the\npublic sphere take priority over homosexual's rights to equal opportunity ?\n", "\nSome survey conducted by the U.S. government and some group (I don't know \nwhich) did what they were calling on all the news shows this morning, \"The most\ncomprehensive survey of sexuality in the past 50 years\". Not an exact quote, \nbut you get the idea.\n\nThis low percentage is merely one more in a ton of evidence disproving the 10% \ntheory.", "\n\n\nIf true, and if gays were the same as straights except\nfor sexual preference, I would imagine that gays would\nhave much less sex than straights because the available\npool for dates is less than one-tenth what it is for\nstraights. Somebody correct (flame) me please!", "\n Not quite. The answer is: Many homosexuals, heterosexual, and bisexuals are,\nbut then, many are not.\n\n Or, more simply: Lots of people are.\n\n", "# ## Ahh, what's good for the goose is not necessarily what's good for\n# ## the gander. You don't want homosexuals to impose their moral codes\n# ## (such diabolical ideas as equal rights) on you, yet you are willing\n# ## to impose your moral codes on them. Do I detect a double standard?\n# ## \n# ## -garison\n# \n# #What do you mean? If adults want to get together for sodomy in\n# #private, that's their business.\n# \n# And that's precisely what they do. So what's your problem with the queer\n# population, boyo? The only difference between us is what we do in\n# private--who we love.\n# \n# ----bi Andrew D. Simchik\t\t\t\t\tSCHNOPIA!\n\nDo it in private, and it won't be a problem. But the reason that\nthe homosexual activists are so hot on antidiscrimination laws is\nthat they want:\n\n1. To be able to wear that lovely chiffon evening gown to work, and\nnot have people get disgusted;\n\n2. To be able to wear their NAMBLA T-shirt and not worry about\ngetting fired;\n\n3. To be able to have access to young boys, so that they start\nmaking the next generation of homosexuals.\n\nIf your right to privacy is what makes sodomy laws unconstitutional\n(a position that I agree with), then keep it private, and there\nwon't be a problem.", "\n\n$># Item number 1: in a previous posting, you stated that you had found\n$># \"overwhelming support for child molestation\" in soc.motss:\n\n$># You have (finally) responded to this one. I have read your complete file\n$># of postings to soc.motss and to put it bluntly, it does not support your\n$># assertion. In short, this claim is bogus. Thank you for confirming this.\n\n\nClayton, are you really an idiot, or do you just play one on USENET?\n\nYou claimed you had postings from a dozen (i.e. 12) soc.motss posters that\n\"supported child molestation\". (Point aside that they were really defending\nabolishing or modifying the age of consent laws, or the right to be ATTRACTED\nbut don't act upon desires for children).\n\nso 12 out of thousands is an \"overwhelming majority\".\n\nYou never cease to amaze me.\n\nAnd you still haven't told me why my relationship with my partner is immoral.\n\nBrian D. Kane", "\n\n\n\nI wouldn't worry too much about it, though. We are starting to find\nout how politically impotent homosexuals really are. The Colorado\nboycott has fizzled, Slick Willie was effectively prevented from\nimplementing his military policy wrt homosexuals by members of his\n_OWN_ party, this new study casts a large shadow of doubt on their\nclaims of large numbers, and coming this Saturday they are going to\nwind up with _TREMENDOUS_ egg on their face when, I submit, no more\nthan perhaps 35,000 queers will show up in Washington while they are\npromising crowds in the millions. And most of the ones who will be\nthere will look like ACT-UP and Queer Nation, not the guy working in\nthe next cubicle. As if that's really going to play in middle\nAmerica.\n\nPretty soon they will find themselves retreating back into the closet\nwhere they belong.", ": > From: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg) \n: Bzzzzt. THANK you for playing, but obviously you are not reading the \n: material as it is presented. According to the report I've got in my \n: hands, the Newsweek article (which reported that \"2 to 3 percent\" of the \n: population is gay) used the criteria of \"No heterosexual contact in the \n: past year.\" But at the same time, the University of Denver study points \n: out, quite dramatically, that 60% of all self-identifying gay men have \n: > had some form of heterosexual contact in the past year. \n: \n: I think the big mistake in that study must be that if one had had no sexual \n: contact of any kind in the previous year, they are counted as heterosexual.\n: Even if they didn't intend it that way, that's how the figures are being used.\n\nCould someone please post some date such as what questonnares where used\nand how they were distributed and returned.\n\n--", "\n\n\nThis is not a \"studies\", but a study. Other studies, including the\njust-published \"Janus Report\", give very different figures. The Janus\nReport figures are not too different than Kinsey: 9% homosexual men,\nand 4% bisexual men.\n\n\n\nDon't be stupid. The Kinsey report is one study, so it can't be \"all\nover the map\" all by itself. Other studies, including the Battelle\none, have also been criticed. As far as agendas go, this is really\nchutzpah. *Your* agenda is obvious.\n\n\n", "Tell *them* to stay home? :-) Sorry, terrible attempt at homour there.\n\nAlternative? Hell, I don't know. But...its perfectly possible to have\nobjections to a particular policy while feeling that there is no \n\"alternative choice\".\n", "\n\nMake that 20%. Where did I see that poll recently about the\nvery religious and adultery? Was it this newsgroup or alt.atheism\nor some other place?", "From the Santa Rosa (Cal.) Press-Democrat, April 15, 1993, p. B2:\n\n Male sex survey: Gay activity low\n\n A new natonal study on male sexual behavior, the most thorough\n examination of American men's sexual practices published since\n the Kinsey report more than four decades ago, shows about 2\n percent of the men surveyed had engaged in homosexual sex and\n 1 percent considered themselves exclusively homosexual.\n\n The figures on homosexuality in the study released Wednesday\n by the Alan Guttmacher Institute are significantly lower than\n the 10 percent figure that has been part of the conventional\n wisdom since it was published in the Kinsey report.\n\nThe article also contains numbers on the number of sexual partners.\nThe median number of sexual partners for all men 20-39 was 7.3.\nCompared to the table I have already posted from Masters, Johnson,\nand Kolodny showing male homosexual partners, it is apparent that\nhomosexual men are dramatically more promiscuous than the general\nmale population. It's a shame that we don't have a breakdown for\nstraight men vs. gay/bi men -- that would show even more dramatically\nhow much more promiscuous gay/bi men are.", "From article , by gsh7w@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Hennessy):\n\n\n\nReally? I thought that insurance companies hired all of\ntheir actuarial staffs to determine the risks correlated\nwith all groups of people, and that gays are more likely\nto have AIDS than are those of other sexual orientations.\nIf I am wrong about this correlation, please correct me.\n\nMy auto insurance company charges me up the wazoo because\nI am a young male with a very high performance car. I\nalways thought that this was based on NHTSA and other\nstatistical data, rather than bigotry and hatred for young\nmen with fast cars. Of course, with the proper government\nintervention, we could force the insurance companies to\npretend that young men with fast cars are just the same\nas everyone else...", "# ## Absolutely nothing, seeing as there is no table for heterosexuals.\n# ## If, as you claim, the supposedly higher promescuity amongst homosexual\n# ## males makes them an insurance risk, you need to be show that\n# ## heterosexual males are less promiscuous than homosexual males.\n# ## Without the data on heterosexual males, we cannot make a comparison\n# ## between promiscuity rates of heterosexuals and homosexuals.\n# ## \n# ## * mjcugley@maths-and-cs.dundee.ac.uk (world)\t\t*\n# ## * or mjcugley@uk.ac.dund.maths-and-cs (UK)\t\t\t*\n# \n# Well, the obvious point to make is would straight men fuck like rabbits\n# if the oppertunity presented itself?\n# \n# I reckon *any* *man* would go wildly promiscuous if presented with a\n# huge variety of willing partners. The question here is not of being\n\nThat, I suppose, says a lot about how screwed up you are.\n\n# #Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer My opinions, all mine!\n# Xavier\n\n", "\nOh, please, enlighten us all. What articles in particular are you\nquoting from? I'm doing my Masters in Psychopathology and it would\ninterest me greatly in seeing these articles that you know exist\n(yet I know nothing about). I'm sure I could give them to people\ndoing their PhD's. With information like this, they'll have their\ndegree in no time. (sprinkle sarcasm where applicable)\n\nDon't bother with the little-girl-is-raped-by-her-daddy-and-is-now-\na-lesbian-because-of-it studies. They have always been under critical \nscrutiny as to their validity. (Correlation != causation).", "\nSo if this study is proved wrong then it proves that heterosexuals\nare liars? Unlike the propaganda spouted by the far right the ten\npercent figure was backed up by the best study available at the time.\nIts hardly certain that this new study is correct since it hasn't\neven been out for enough time for any double checking to happen.\n\n\nOf course if they had found 10% then it would be invalid because it\nwas funded by planned parenthood :)\n\n\nEven if its \"only\" one million the point still stands. Even getting\n1/6th of a given population in one place would be unprecidented. \nIf even 1 million show up in DC it will raise serious doubts about\nthis study, or indicate a resolve unprecidented in human history.\n\n\nHe isn't the target of the march, nor do presidents often speak at\ncivil rights marchs (of course it would have been nice). However\nthe republicans and conservative democrats would do well to take\nnotice.\n\n\n\nThis is quite amusing. Obviously you know nothing about the history\nof math.", "\n\n\n\n Granted. Pomeroy, Bell, Weinberg, 1967. \"National Institute of\nMental Health Paper 12353, ''Patterns of Adjusment in Deviant\nPopulations.''\" Cited as part of the National Institute of Mental\nHealth Task Force on Homosexuality.\n\n Pomery concluded, \"The Kinsey statistic of 37% is probably higher\nthan is realistic. According to these estimates, 33% is a more\nrealistic figure.\"\n\n (I went out and bought LOTS of Bell & Weinberg this weekend... can\nyou tell?)\n\n Also, The Janus Report on Sexual Behavior (Samuel S. Janus, Ph.D.\nand Cynthia L. Janus, M.D., John Wiley & Sons (pub), 1992) has the\nfollowing:\n\nTable 3.14\nHave you ever had a homosexual experience?\n Men. Women.\nN= 1,335 1,384\nYes 22% 17%\nNo 78% 83%\n\nTable 3.15\nHow often have you had homosexual contact?\n Men Women\nN= 294 235\na. Once 5% 6%\nb. Occasionally 56% 67%\nc. Frequently 13% 6%\nd. Ongoing 26% 21%\n\nActive (c. + d.) 39% 37%\n\n39% of 22% is 9%. This number is consistent with Kinsey, Pomery,\nGebard (1953), Bell & Weinberg (1967, 1974), and Rice (1987) in the\nfinding that 9% of the male population is actively homosexual, with\nan further breakdown (Bell & Wienberg, 1978) of 4% exclusively so and\n5% self-identifying themselves as \"bisexuals.\"\n\n (pp 69, 70)\n\n As for debunking Kinsey, the following article is an important\nlesson for everyone to read:\n\nWas Kinsey a Fake and a Pervert?\nby Philip Nobile\n\n Far out on the grassy knoll of sexology, there is a cult of\nprochastity researchers who claim that the late Alfred Kinsey was a\nsecret sex criminal, a Hoosier Dr. Mengele, who bent his numbers\ntoward the bisexual and the bizarre in a grand conspiracy to queer the\nnation and usher in an era of free sex with kids. \n\n But what really riles these critics is Kinsey's towerin~ cultural\ninfluence. His bestselling surveys-- Sexual Behavior in the Human Male\n(1948) and Sexual Behavior in the Human Female (1953)-- tore the\nsheets off the country's erogenous zones and undermined midcentury\nmorals. His charts and graphs, based on detailed histories of 12,000\nmen and women, demonstrated that practices generally considered rare\nand/or 'abnormal'-- masturbation, extramarital relations,\nhomosexuality, and even barnyard bestiality, were as American as\nstrawberry shortcake. \n\n Yet for a hard core of these heterosexual supremacists, aided and\nabetted by Pat Buchanan and the religious right, the zoology professor\nfrom Indiana University remains the evil genius behind the sex\nrevolution and a target for character assassination. \n\n Judith Reisman, the prosecution's expert witness at the\nMapplethorpe trial in Cincinnati, is the leader of the anti- Kinsey\nrevisionists as well as his Inspector Javert. In 1983, during a radio\ninterview with Pat Buchanan in Washington, Reisman accused Kinsey of\nhaving been inolved in \"the vicious genital torture of hundreds of\nchildren.\" She speculated that he kidnapped and drugged ghetto boys in\norder to carry out clandestine orgasm tests. \n\n Now, seven years later, Reisman has revived her charges in a\ndifferent book, titled Kinsey, Sex and Fraud, just released by the\nsmall and religiously oriented Huntington House in Lafayette,\nLouisiana. Her coauthor is Ed Eichel, a Manhattan psychotherapist who\nhas invented a new style of intromission (\"the coital alignment\ntechnique\") that supposedly triggers simultaneous orgasm with\nconsiderable regularity and thereby increases compatibilty between the\nsexes. In the book Eichel contends that \"Kinsey deliberately cooked\nthe gay stats because, being an oddball himself, he wanted to advance\nthe 'denormalization' of heterosexuality.\" \n\n If the authors are right, then the world- famous Kinsey Reports\nare, as the introduction boldly asserts, \"the most egregious example\nof scientific deception in this century.\" And if they are wrong,\nKinsey, Sex and Fraud is a shameful smear.\n\n Despite the less- than- stellar credentials of Kinsey's\ndetractors, legends are not what they used to be. Martin Luther King\nmay have committed plagiarism. Bruno Bettelheim slapped young mental\npatients around. Father Bruce Ritter, the founder of Covenant House,\npreyed on runaway boys. Closer to Kinsey, Masters and Johnson have\nbeen disgraced for faking it in one way or another. \n\n So it should not surprise anybody that Kinsey, who filmed strange\npeople having sex in his attic, may have had skeletons in the closet.\nThe problem is that Reisman does not seem to have the intellectual\nprowess to pull off the job. \n\n As a thinker, the woman is no Madame Curie. The 55-year-old\nformer songwriter for Captain Kangaroo has little professional\nstanding, no current university position, and no peer-review\npublications, though her creative 1983 resume was padded with phantom\naccomplishments. For instance, it listed a book as her own-- Take Back\nthe Night: Women on Pornography-- that was actually written and edited\nby others. Then there is her Ph.D. in Speech Communication from\nCleveland's Case Western Reserve University. Although Reisman has no\nbachelor's degree, Case granted her a master's in 1976 and a doctorate\nin 1979. Her dissertation was on the commentaries of a local\noctagenarian TV commentator. But on the resume, Reisman gave this\npiece of scholarship a fancy Hautes Etudes moniker-- to wit: \"The\nApplication of Aristotelian and Systems Analytic Theory to Mass Media\nEffects.\"\n\n When Reisman burst into prominence on Buchanan's program, it was\nlove at first sight for Al Regnery, the outwardly anti- \nporn head of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention in Ed Meese's\nJustice Department. Regnery was a young law-and-order conservative and\namateur social philosopher who wanted to help change the sexual\nclimate of the United States. \n\n After Reisman's sensational radio session, the sexual equivalent\nof Joe McCarthy's Wheeling speech, Regnery summoned \nher to meetings to discuss mutual interests. First he tried to shovel\nher $800,000 for a quasi-Frankenstein study that was going to measure\nthe brain chemicals of men and boys who looked at arousing\nphotographs. Guffaws on Capitol Hill killed the original proposal, but\n$734,000 in govemment money went to Reisman anyway for plan B- a probe\nof child images in the cartoons Playboy, Penthouse, and Hust\nler. (Incredibly, this grant surpassed the entire budget of the\nattorney general's pornography commission.) \n\n When the overpriced and oversold project was completed in 1986,\nit was immediately shelved by an embarrassed Justice Department. That\nspring, Regnery resigned from his post only days before the New\nRepublic carried this admission that he had kept porno magazines\naround the house. \n\n Notwithstanding the six-figure humiliation, Reisman went on to\nscratch out a niche on the ioony right. As the darling of the sex\ncranks, she deplores subversive phenomena like shaved genitalia in\nmen's magazines and blames AIDS on gays. Kinsey, Sex and Fraud is\nReisman's latest grasp for respectability. Pat Buchanan, of course, is\nputting his Krugerrands on Reisman's ultimate vindication. \"This book\nis social dynamite,\" he says in a blurb an the front cover. He\nespecially liked the antigay parts. Smacking his lips in his\nsyndicated column, he declared, \"It may just blow the sewer cap off\nKinsey's monumental reputation, reestablish homosexuality as a 1-in-50\naberration, expose the Gay Rights movement as a paper tiger, and even\nput at risk the enormous sex industry built upon Dr. Kinsey's\n'research.'\"\n\n The blockbuster charge at the heart of the cluttered and\nrepetilive j'Accuse is that Kinsey was a sex-mad pedophile who\nmolested little boys in Nazi-type experiments and recorded their\norgasms in his male volume/ A similar charge was first recited at the\nFifth World Conference on Sexology in Jerusalem in 1981 to no effect\nbefore being recycled by Reisman for Buchanan in Washington in 1983.\n\n Here is how Reisman and Eichel repackaged the Mengele business in\nKinsey, Sex and Fraud:\n\n Mengele-like 'scientific' experiments on infants and children\nwere the basis for Kinsey's conclusions... on childhood sexuality.\n\n Somewhere and sometime in the course of the project, Kinsey\nappears to have directed experimental sex research on several hundred\nchildren aged from two months to almost 15 years.\n\n This, of course, would implicate Kinsey and his team in\npromoting, and perhaps participating in, the criminal activity.\n\n In the opinion of this book's authors, that is exactly how part\nof Kinsey's child sexuality research took place.\n\n\n Donning his psychohistorian's cap and citing an FBI manual on\nchild molesters as a guide, Eichel casually diagnoses Kinsey as a\nhomosexual pedophile with the perfect motive for doing exactly as\n \n\n [Kinsey] placed himself in professional and nonprofessional\npositions where he had access to young boys, such as Y.M.C.A. camp\ncounselor, boys' club leader, and Boy Scout leader-- activities he\nkept up 'during his college and graduate yeaers, and even after his\nmarriage.\"\n \n\n As crude as his analysis seems, Eichel was more than happy to\nelaborate even further in a recent phone interview. \"If you've ever\nbeen around boy- lovers, pedophiles, they are absolutely compulsive,\"\nhe averred. \"Everything in his life is directed at getting children. I\ndidn't mention this in our book but the caption under Kinsey's high\nschool picture was a quote from Hamlet: 'Man delights me not, no,\n[sic] nor woman neither.' What do you think they were picking up on?\" \n\n Before weighing what Reisman and Eichel pass off as proof of\nKinsey's sex crimes, something must be said about Kinsey's scientific\nmodus operandi. He was a fiendish collector. As a young zoologist with\na D.Sc. from Harvard, he collected 4 million gall wasps and 1.5\nmillion related insects. When he switched to sex exploration after\nagreeing to teach a marriage Course at Indiana University in 1938, he\nwas no less curious or acquisitive. Nothing that mammals did in the\nrealm of reproduction was foreign to him. He compiled masses of erotic\nmaterials including toilet wall inscriptions from male and female\njohns that highlighted differences in sexual psychology and flms of\nmating in 14 species of animals that showed an amazing similarity in\noral eroticism. \n\n Naturally, the sexual response of children, the genesis of eros,\nfascinated him. It was impossible to understand the sexual behaviors\nof adults without examining their origins. And so with the fervor of\nhis bughunting days, Kinsey collected information about kids, though\neven his worst enemies-- until Reisman and Eichel-- refrained from\nlinking him personally to his data on preadolescent sex. \n\n Kinsey said plainly in the male volume that he got information on\nthe sex life of young boys from people who had sex with them: \"Some of\nthese adults are technically trained persons who have kept diaries or\nother records which have been put at our disposal.\" Although he\ngathered much boyhood data from the memories of his subjects and the\nobservations of parents and nursery school teachers, he treated the\ndocumentary materia! of the pedophiles as pure gold. There was nothing\nlike it in the literature. \n\n Kinsey's main source, a 63-year-old govemment worker, was also\nthe most unforgettable character he had ever met. This man, whose\nhistory took 17 hours to log, had sex with over 600 boys and 200 girls\nas well as 17 of 33 family members including his father and\ngrandmother. A sexual hobbyist and passionate record-keeper, he gave\nKinsey detailed accounts of orgasms that he observed in preadolescent\nboys. Relying on the man's meticulous research, which involved\nfollowing some boys for as long as 16 years, Kinsey was able to\nidentify for the first time six distinct types of male orgasm-- some\nof which involved violent contortions at the peak of release-- as well\nas the speed and the capacity of climax. \n\n What Freud had only imagined about childhood sexuality, Kinsey\nhad reported as fact. Children were indeed erotic beings from the\ncradle. \"These data on the sexual activities of younger male provide\nan important substantiation of the Freudian view of sexuality as a\ncomponent that is present in the human animal from earliest infancy,\"\nhe concluded without raising eyebrows in 1948. \n\n Then along came Judith Reisman. Ignorng the legitimacy of\nKinsey's inquiry, she beheld the ghost of Mengele in Bloomington. She\nwas appalled by the thought of infant ecstasy and read torture in the\nportrayals of prepubertal orgasm rendered by the government worker.\nAnd she dared to say that Kinsey was a sex criminal. \n\n Well, was he or wasn't he? Let's go to the text. There is no\nevidence in Kinsey, Sex and Fraud-- no witnesses, no paper, noteven a\ntrace of hearsay-- that implicates Kinsey in either planning or\npartaking in child sex experiments. After 12 years on the trail,\nReisman has uncovered just two sources to back up her original charge-\n- amazingly enough, Kinsey himself and Wardell Pomeroy, Kinsey's\ncoauthor on both reports, to whom Reisman has never spoken. It turns\nout that her whole case rests on a few passages in the male volume\niand in Pomeroy's 1972 biography titled Dr. Kinsey and the Institute\nfor Sex Research.\n\n After frisking every \"the\" and \"and\" in both books, Reisman came\nup with what she believes are \"smoking\" sentences. To establish\nKinsey's alleged role in the planning, she says that \"there is a hint\"\nin the fifth chapter of the male volume that Kinsey \"directed\" the\norgasm studies on kids. She cites his tell-tale quote from a critic of\narmchair psychoanalysis demanding that \"writers...test their\ntheories...by empirical study and statistical procedures.\" Then she\ncombines this quote with Kinsey's statement that some of the\nobservations of his pedophile sources \"were continued over periods of\nmonths or years until the individuals were old enough to make it\ncertain that true orgasm was involved.\" \n\n Putting two and two together-- Kinsey's empiricism and lengthy\nexperimentation-- she arrives at her hint. But realizing this dog\nwould not hunt, she devoted but a single paragraph to Kinsey's\nsupposed planning before shifting to the issue of his personal\ninvolvement. As for the alleged participation, after poring over\nPomeroy's biography, Reisman found several hidden clues suggesting\nKinsey's likely hands-on approach to kiddie sex. Here the chain of\nreasoning is more complex. She points out that Kinsey was interested\nin clitoral measurements, collecting sperm and filming sex in his\nattic. Since Kinsey did indeed mislead Indiana University about the\npurpose of his cinematography-- he said that he was filming \"animal\nsex\"-- Reisman asserts that a \"similar misrepresentation may yet apply\nto Kinsey's child sex experiments.\" Catch the \"may\"!\n\n Reisman was also struck by Kinsey's doubting Thomas attitude\ntoward the never before recorded climax of female rabbits: \"Kinsey,\naccording to Pomeroy, was the type of person who needed to see things\nfor himself. Pomeroy gave the example of orgasm in the female rabbit.\nBecause he had not personally witnessed this event, Kinsey had\ndifficulty in accepting its reality, even on the strength of testimony\nfrom a distinguished scientist. How then did Kinsey testify to the\nactuality of orgasm in a 5-month-old infant from the mere 'history' of\na sex offender?\" (But, of course, he did not: he depended on their\nrecords.) \n\n From this fantastic alchemy of conjecture mixed with clitorides,\nsperm, attic cumshots, and climax-in-cottontail has Reisman defamed\nthe legendary Kinsey.\n\n Paul Gebhard succeeded Kinsey as the director of the Kinsey\nInstitute and now lives in retirement outside Bloomington. Reached by\ntelephone, Gebhard defended the pedophile connection and denied\nReisman's nasty imputations. \"I don't understand the resistance of\npeople like Reisman to studying the sexuality of children,\" Gebhard\nsaid more in exasperation than anger. \"That is where sex begins. We\nwere happy to take data wherever we found it. Even though pedophiles\ncommit criminal acts, they are usually not violent folks. They\nwouldn't be very successful if they were. One of our best sources was\na headmaster of a boys' school who maintained a kind of alumni club\nand sometimes went to the weddings of his former students. As for\ndirecting experiments, that's absurd. We never told any of our\nsubjects what to do. lt was against our principles. Almost all of the\npedophile material was retrospective anyway. Nor did we ever conduct\nsex experiments with children ourselves. That would have been highly\ninappropriate.\" \n\n I asked Gebhard if Kinsey had ever seen a child in a sexual\nsituation. \"I think a mother once brought in a little girl who humped\nher teddy bear and Kinsey watched it.\" \n\n As for Kinsey's sex life, it is still shrouded in\nconfidentiality. He was married to the same woman for 35 years and\nfathered four children. Apparently, there are no huge sexual\nrevelations, although rumors of homosexuality have persisted without\nconfirmation through the years. Gebhard took his boss's history back\nin the '40s, but he refuses to discuss what he knows. \"We never\ndivulge anything about anybody's history, whether dead or alive,\" he\nsays. \n\n Reisman said no to an interview for this article on the grounds\nthat I had once worked for Penthouse-- not to mention the fact that we\nhave been debating each other in various forums for the past five\nyears. In keeping with our contentious history, she took a swipe at me\nin her book for continuing \"the Kinsey practice of euphemizing\nincest.\" My offense was using the biblical variant \"lying with a near\nrelative\" in a 1977 article on the subject of incest. As a synonym for\nintercourse, \"lying with\" appears eight times in Genesis. \n\n Ed Eichel is a different story. Though seemingly obsessed by\nKinsey like his coauthor, he was friendly in long conversations. He\ntold me that he began to smell a big baised agenda in sexology when he\nwas a student in New York University's Human Sexuality program in the\nearly '80s. \"It was literally a gay studies program for heterosexuals,\"\nhe says.\n\n Around 1985, Eichel came upon Reisman's critique of Kinsey and\nthe conspiracy theory started to sink in: the sex establishment was\nruled by a Kinseyan bisexual bund advocating the overthrow of the\nheterosexual norm. No wonder he was having such a rough time promoting\nthe joy of simultaneous orgasm-- anything that enhanced sexual\ncompatibility between men and women inevitably raised objections.\n\n Eventually, Eichel exchanged philosophical fluids with Reisman,\nand from this union Kinsey, Sex and Fraud was born. Eichel's main\ncontribution to the book is discovery and analysis of a Kinsey\nconspiracy that supposedly seeks \"the establishment of bisexuality as\nthe balanced sexual orientation for normal, uninhibited people\" which,\nby destroying the traditional family structure and normal sexual\nbehavior, \"would open the way for the second and more difficult step--\nthe ultimate goal of cross-generational sex (sex with children).\" \n\n When I pressed him for specific references to back up his\noutrageous contentions, he said weakly, \"You don't think Kinsey is\ngoing to come right out and say that everybody is basically bisexual\nand should have sex with kids, but this is implicit in the Kinsey\nreports.\" \n\n Meanwhile, Eichel is demanding a congressional investigation of\nKinsey and his data. Perfect. That's just what the country needs-- a\nHouse Un-American Sexual Activities Committee, looking under beds and\nasking people if they are now or have everbeen a reader, a sympathizer\nor-- God forbid-- a subject of Dr. Alfred Kinsey.\n\n\n Elf !!!\n--\nelf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)", "\nThat probably is not true. But today it may not be much better for\nthe gay population in general.\n\n\nWhere are all of these studies? You have cited a few, and my research\nshows that there are not that many. Do Not Confuse a survey as a\nstudy, there is a big difference. Asking people outside of a polling\nbooth and adding up numbers is NOT a study.\n\n\nBut this is what you base most of your conclusion upon. Warm\nfuzzy feelings.\n\nMaybe he has stated an educated opinion based upon the studies\nthat involve genetics and psychological influence. There are a\nlot of those types of studies, aren't there? Try reading some.\n\nThis is a crap statement and comparison. Many people use this sad\nand stupid argument. There is not relationship between alcoholics\nand people's sexual orientation- except that some may find what it\nreally is when they are drunk (repressed inhibition released).\n\nNonsense- this simply is not true. I suppose it is a waste of time\nto try and tell you to understand what a study presents. Most of\nwhat you cite does not extrapolate anything, you do.\n\n\nIf people in general would stop using irrational position to oppress\nother's and leave our private lives to ourselves, I would have no\nsupport for laws and rules to protect people form this. But we need\nonly look at post such as yours to see that they lack rational\nthought and intelligent outlooks.\n", "\nPut up or shut up. Where is your evidence?\nShow a study indicating a link between liking >>GROWN UPS<< of the same\nsex and liking children. Saying that 30% of molested children are male\nshows nothing since it tells you nothing of the molesters preference\nin adults (if they have any at all). \n\n\nThe politicians will have plenty to be scared of in one week be it 1% or\n90%.\n\n\nI'm sure there will be a few non queers, but the vast majority are\nqueer.\n", "\n Just what do gay people do that straight people don't?\n\nAbsolutely nothing.\n\nI'm a VERY straight(as an arrow), 17-year old male that is involved in the BSA.\n\nI don't care what gay people do among each other, as long as they don't make\npasses at me or anything. At my summer camp where I work, my boss is gay.\nNot in a 'pansy' way of gay (I know a few), but just 'one of the guys'.\nHe doesn't push anything on me, and we give him the same respect back, due\nto his position.\n\nIf anything, the BSA has taught me, I don't know, tolerance or something.\nBefore I met this guy, I thought all gays were 'faries'. So, the BSA HAS\ntaught me to be an antibigot.", "\nThis is a very good point. One that I have held for sometime. We do not\nallow people to develop on the paths that they choose or desire. Even with\nheterosexuals we tend to leave some hanging in the sense of knowledge and\ninformation about sexuality and relationships.\n\nIt is very difficult for a young person to develop and build a positive\nview of themself when they are constantly being told implicitly and explicitly\nthat they are wrong and immoral. ", "Perhaps 1%, but most likely not more than 2%. A new study\n(discrediting Kinsey) says so.", "From article , by rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese):\n\n#>NAMBLA's presence in the SF Gay Pride Parade says quite a bit.\n#>It says that either the parade organizers want to show support\n#>for NAMBLA, or they themselves have a fundamental misunderstanding\n#>of their rights and responsibilities. I would really, really like\n#>to believe the latter, but I would need some help to do so.\n\n\nPerhaps, though the exclusion of the Gay Perotistas in the\nSF Gay Pride Parade would make me think that they had some\nclue in this regard. Dozens of examples? I don't know...", "\n\n\n\n\nGOT HIM! Cramer is now claiming that pedophilia is a sexual orientation\nrather than a chronicly homosexual condition. This changes the whole\nargument in as much that is pedophilia is a sexual orientation all\nof its own peds cannot be called homosexual. Peds are peds who\nmay have a preference as to the sex of the child they molest (though\nmost do not have a preference) but that is a subset of their basic\nped nature.\n\nCramer has as much as admitted that peds and gay men are different\norientations. All we need now is to get him to admit that\nthe apparent similarities he keeps on about are just optical illusions.\n\nxavier", "\n\n\n\nMy argument is mainly a proposal of what I think is a plausible argument\nagainst extra-marital sex -- one which I personally believe has some\ntruth. My main purpose for posting it here is to show that a\n_plausible_ argument can be made against extra-marital sex. At this\nstage I am not saying that this particular viewpoint is proven or\nanything like that, just that it is plausible. To try to convince you\nall of this particular point of view, I would probably have to do a lot\nof work researching what has been done in this field, etc., in order to\ngather further evidence, which I simply do not have time to do now. \n\nAlso note that I said that I think extra-marital sex is \"a prime cause\"\n(in my opinion) of the generally greater levels of psychological\nproblems, especially depression, in Western societies. I am not saying\nit is \"the prime cause\" or \"the only cause\", just \"a prime cause\" --\ni.e. one of the significant contributions to this trend. I think when\nyou say you think my view is simplistic, you have forgotten this -- I\nadmit that there are probably other factors, but I do think that\nextra-marital sex (and, IMO, subsequent destabilization of the family)\nis a significant factor in the rise in psychological problems like\ndepression in Western society this century.", "\nTRANSLATION- you minorities stay in predesignated areas. We the majority\nare 'right', anything you do is 'wrong', since might makes right, and\nthe majority always rules.\n\n\n\nOh- crime prevention at its best. Well let's extrapolate this, maybe if \nyou didn't display all of your private property, then those nasty theifs\nwouldn't go after it. And don't carry any money, that way those muggers\nwon't bother you.\n\n\nOh I did not know that Le JoJo is a typical homosexual.\n\nStop making statements about something you know nothing about, that is\ngay people. You make your sweeping generalizations with no grounding \nin reality.\n\n\nWhat I hope is not true- That you are a typical heterosexual. Anyone want\nto comment on this?\n\nAnd if you are typical then I can start extrapolating a lot of interesting\nconjectures about heterosexuals.", "#Yet, when a law was proposed for Virginia that extended this \n#philosophy to cigarette smokers (so that people who smoked away\n#from the work couldn't be discriminated against by employers),\n#the liberal Gov. Wilder vetoed it. Which shows that liberals don't\n#give a damn about \"best person for the job,\" it's just a power\n#play.\n\nOf course Clayton ignores the fact that employers pay health\ninsurance, and insurance for smokers is more expensive than for\nnon-smokers. \n", "\n\nI bought mine at the MOW storefront.\nIts not plastic, its woven material.\n\nbut I think you miss the point.\nits not about the five bucks in your pocket, its about supporting the\nmarch and helping to pay for all the printed materail and scehdulkes and\norganisation and...\n\nall leading up to the literal *birth* of Queer visibility in this country.\n\nup to this point all our news coverage has been driven by events thatb\nhappen to us. \nthis event is happening by our direct action.\nof course the last MOW was the same thing but they ignored us.\nI guess that was just labor pains.\nperhaps they will ignore us again, in which case we will come in\neven largeer numbers next time.\n\nLst night in DC there were so many queers out and about you could hardly get\nin any place.\nI suspect thatb over the next two days that will become exponentially\nlarger.\n\nTo my mind this is a physical bsuting down of the collective closet of\nqueer invisibility.\n\nthe five bucks is insignificant.\n\nLUX ./. owen\n\n\n", "\n\nThis posting is totally uncalled for in rec.scouting.\n\nThe point has been raised and has been answered. Roger and I have\nclearly stated our support of the BSA position on the issue;\nspecifically, that homosexual behavior constitutes a violation of\nthe Scout Oath (specifically, the promise to live \"morally straight\").\n\nThere is really nothing else to discuss. Trying to cloud the issue\nwith comparisons to Blacks or other minorities is also meaningless\nbecause it's like comparing apples to oranges (i.e., people can't\ncontrol their race but they can control their behavior).\n\nWhat else is there to possibly discuss on rec.scouting on this issue?\nNobody, including BSA, is denying anybody the right to live and/or\nworship as they please or don't please, but it doesn't mean that BSA\nis the big bad wolf for adhering to the recognized, positive, religious\nand moral standards on which our society has been established and on\nwhich it should continue to be based.", ": \n: >You might -- except that gay men are MUCH more promiscuous than\n: >straight men -- which shows how damaged and screwed up gay men are.\n: \n: Okay Claytoon, let us say that hypothetically I agree with you that\n: gay men are much more promiscuous than straight men. Why does\n: this indicate they are screwed up people?\n: \n: BTW - It occurs to me that since, in my experience, men are much more\n: interested in sex than women and want to have sex much earlier\n: in a relationship than women do, that homosexuals would have \n: sex more often simply becuase their partner is of a like mind.\n: i.e. heterosexual men would be more promiscuous if they could.\n\nIt's my observation that women are more likely to me more strongly\nindoctronated into now wanting sex that are men.\nAlso there are definite double standards for men and women who are\npromiscuous.\n\nCould there also be a factor of communication being more direct in \nhomosexual relationships and culture.\n\n--", "\n\n\n\n\nGosh, I have to associate with heterosexuals against my will every day! \nThat means you've imposed your moral codes on me, now doesn't it? \nFortunately, I have taken the time to get to know some members\nof the het community and discovered that, hey! They really AREN'T all evil\nelitists with no concept of reality!\n\nI've got a few clues for you. (a) I'm not working to pass any laws. (b)\nOur morals are YOUR morals: I imagine you value freedom. So do we. If you\nvalue your own freedom, you must necessarily accept that these laws are\nimportant to protect it. After all, discriminate in one area and you're\nopen to discriminate in the rest. (c) I suggest learning a bit more about\ngays, lesbians, and bis before you post the kind of drivel you have been. \nIt's obvious that you haven't a clue who you're talking about.\n\n\nBut not between members of the same sex, right? How can you live with such\nhypocrisy?\n\nDrewcifer", "\n\n\n\n\n etc. etc.....\n\n\n ^^^^^^\n\n***Sure!!! And what's .3 of a woman??? Any hypothesis??\n\n How can you trust a report from people that have *no idea*\n of what a MEDIAN is?\n\n The same bullshit article reported that 22,5% of all the men have\n sex 10 times or more a week (Elf, how many times did you fill\n one of those questionnaires?) and had other statistics that took\n in no consideration different class backgrounds, marital status\n etc. No information on sampling were given.\n\n\nDo you think you can compare so lightly secondary data from 2 very\ndifferent (and discutible) surveys???\n\n\nIt just shows how dramatically ignorant are press release writers and\nmost pople that read them.....\n", "\n\n Geez, where have you been, Ryan? I proposed this theory *months*\nago. Let's take it one step further, even. If, as the surveys show,\nup to 33% of all men have *had* a homosexual encounter, then there must\nbe an even *larger* percentage of people who have had homosexual erotic\nfantasies. But if less than 10% of the population is gay, what can we\nsay about these people who don't identify as gay but have demonstrated\ngay potential. Obviously, a large chunk of these people *chose* (or,\nmore accurately, were forced to choose by force of religion and social\nsanction) to put those feelings aside, to be heterosexual.\n\n Obviously, Cramer and Kaldis fall into this category.\n\n These people are the ones who are so hung up on \"choice.\"\nObviously, since *they chose*, everyone must have, and homosexuals are\njust flaunting their \"perversion\" by choosing not to go along with what\nsociety has dictated.\n\n Of course, I'm that most awful of perverts. I chose, I gleefully\nadmit that I was heterosexual until I met the right man and *chose* to\nindulge in my homoerotic potential. Take that!\n\n Elf !!!\n--\nelf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)", "\n\nI agree, I reckon it's television and the increase in fundamentalism.. You\nthink its the increase in pre-marital sex... others thinks its because\npsychologists have taken over the criminal justice system and let violent\ncriminals con them into letting them out into the streets... others think\nit's the increase in designer drugs... others think it's a communist plot.\nBasically the social interactions of all the changing factors in our society\nare far too complicated for us to control. We just have to hold on to the\npanic handles and hope that we are heading for a soft landing. But one\nthings for sure, depression and the destruction of the nuclear family is not\ndue solely to sex out of marriage.\n\nJeff.\n", "\nI live in Colorado, and have never heard of such a group. Obviously claims \nthat their posters are appearing \"all over Colorado\" are a tad overdone... \n\n\nHardly. Saying that homosexuality is a sin is a far cry from \n\"Working for a fag-free America\". Saying that I wouldn't want \na homosexual babysitting for my kids doesnt mean I endorse \n\"Against Immoral Gross Homosexual Trash\". \n\n\nAnd now we have homosexual advocates telling us that if we don't teach \nour kids that homosexuality is natural and a perfectly acceptable \nalternative lifestyle, then they will have it done for us. No, thanks. \n\n\nAbsolutely. And the message is always, \"go and sin no more\". Not, \nGo and do whatever \"feels good\". \n\n\n\nThis sounds real nice, but struck me as a little odd. You're \npresenting yourself as if you were a straight Xian, who is sticking\nhis neck out and taking on the challenge of speaking out in support \nof gays in the church. But I was under the impression that you\nyourself are gay. That's all well and fine, but presenting yourself \nas sticking out your neck to help \"repressed others\" seems a bit \nuntruthful under the circumstances.... ", "\nIsn't is funny how someone who seems to know nothing about homosexuality \nuses a very flawed (IMHO) source of information to pass jusgement on all \nhomosexual and bisexual men. It would seem more logical to say that since \nthe heterosexual group of men is larger then the chances of promiscuity \nlarger as well. In my opinion, orientation has nothing to do with it.\n\nMen are men and they all like sex. I am a gay male. I have had sex three \ntimes in my life, all with the same man. Before that, I was a virgin.\n\nSo... whose promiscuous?\n\nJust because someone is gay doesn't mean they have no morals. Just because \nsomeone is heterosexual doesn't mean they do. Look at the world.... \nStatistics alone prove that most criminals are by default hetero...\n\nLook closely at the person, not the group.\n\nAll flames will be ignored. :)\n\nLater,", "\nIs this an arguement against or for? Or simply a statement of agreeance/\ndisagreeance. The fact that there are more homosexuals in prison does not\nmean that homosexuals are immoral and more liable to commit crime. And one\nmust remember that prison is not necessarily a reflection of the type of\npeople who are criminals. What are the statistics for unsolved crime?\n\n\n\n", "\nThat's very interesting. I wonder, are women's reactions\nrecorded after a frustrating night with a man? Is that\nconsidered to be important?", "pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew) writes to Clayton Cramer:\n\n\nThe saddest thing is that most people, like Cramer's wife, learn dislike\nfor homosexuality early in childhood.", "\nHow can you lie about something that no one knows for sure. I am the first\nto state that the 10% figure may be too high- but it may just be too low,\ndepending on what you are talking about.\n\nKeep in mind that there are 'practicing' heterosexuals that are actually\ngay. These people chose to take a road that avoids being harassed and\nthey wanted to 'fit-in' with everyone other 'normal' person.\n\nBut let's get off of this irrational behavior of calling everyone a liar,\nyou cannot even start to support such claims.\n\n\nThis sure sounds definitive. How do you label Kinsey's work like this,\nfrom that factually based and scientific journal WSJ?\n", "On 21 Apr 93 00:07:20 GMT, Theodore A. Kaldis observed:\n\n: > because if she heard\n: Thankfully, you got the gender right. For I am not a deviant.\n\nBigots aren't classified as deviants? How sad.\n\n: > how disparaging you are towards political minorities,\n: Sexual deviants do not comprise a \"political minorit[y]\".\n\nSo, what's this I hear about a March on Washington...assuming\nyou are still considering homosexuality and bisexuality\nas subsets of \"sexual deviants?\"\n\n: > and if she had any shred of self-respect, she'd be out the door.\n: I only associate with girls who do indeed have self-respect. \n\nI trust that many self-respecting *women* might take some sort\nof offense to your use of the term \"girls\" in the above sentence.\n\n--\nMichael D. Adams (starowl@a2i.rahul.net) Enterprise, Alabama", "\nPlease point out where I have said I even _was_ a member of that group,\nmuch less asked to be treated as such, much less insisted upon it.\n\n\nWait a minute. You've been claiming for quite a while now that\npedophilia, according to CA state law, is a sexual orientation. Now\nyour position is that the law doesn't specifically exclude it?\n\nYou know damn well what's going to happen. Some guy in a NAMBLA\nT-shirt's going to apply at a day-care, they're going to turn him down,\nhe's going to take it to court, and the court's going to rule that\nsexual orientation is defined as homosexuality, heterosexuality, or\nbisexuality.\n\nUnless and until that court decides that pedophilia is a sexual\norientation, you have no business saying so.\n\n\nDespite the fact that all homosexuals are lying bastards?\n\n\nAh.\n\nSo, for example, you are opposed to the Civil Rights Act of 1964?\n\n\nThere's no \"for purposes of this act, the term 'sexual orientation' will\nbe defined as\" section? No definitions anywhere? Did they run this\nthrough the state Congress on an accelerated schedule or something?", "#Really? I thought that insurance companies hired all of\n#their actuarial staffs to determine the risks correlated\n#with all groups of people, and that gays are more likely\n#to have AIDS than are those of other sexual orientations.\n\nCorrelation != causality.\n\nThe risk factor is having non-monogomous unprotected sex, not being\nhomosexual. \n", "\nThis is getting sad. All you can do is make this ridiculous statements,\nbased upon some old information and a Press Democrat article that was\npoorly written.\n\nPlease show the numbers for your use of \"MUCH more\". I have not seen\nthem. And I want them to be true and accurate, or at least show a \ntrend within the everyday gay population.\n\nThere are all kinds of 'damaged and screwed up' people, and most of\nthem are not gay.", "But you stated that this study was presented in a very accurate and\ndependable way. This is confusing to the issue.\n\nAnd if you read this title it implies that; gay sex (homosexual sex)\nactivities are low compared to the general population that they surveyed.\n\n\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nWell let us quibble- look at the above statement that you posted, I have marked\nit with '^^^^^^', IT STATES THAT 1% ARE EXCLUSIVELY HOMOSEXUAL- IT STATES 2% ARE\nOR HAVE ENGAGED IN HOMOSEXUAL SEX.\n\nAnd please not the use of adjective here \"HOMOSEXUAL SEX\".\n\nNow I stated that if we take 1% as homosexal this is a valid viewpoint.", "# # Unfortunately, homosexuals don't believe in this concept of freedom.\n# # They believe that they have a right to FORCE people to hire them,\n# # rent to them, and do business with them, regardless of the feelings\n# # or beliefs of the other person.\n# \n# \n: >Unless, of course, the problem is that homosexuality is a form\n: >of mental disorder, caused by childhood sexual abuse, as a number of\n: >recent works suggest.\n: \n: Which number is that? Zero?\n\nThe only time I have heard mention of such a mechanism is\nwith respect to FEMALE homosexuality resulting from HETEROSEXUAL\nchildhood abuse.\n(and this as only one of several factors affecting the same person)\n\nAs Mr Cramer appears to concentrate on MALE homosexuality\nI doubt this is what he has in mind.\n\n--", "\n\tMy understanding from my psycology classes is that the percentage is \n\tmore like 10-12% world wide. I would really like to know your source\n\tfor the 1-2% figure.", "\nThere is also the question of cause and effect.\nLock a mostly straight guy up for 10 years with only guys, ask\nten years later if he has ever had sex with a guy. Closing your\neyes and pretending its a girl sucking you still counts as sex\nwith a guy on the survey....", "\nSo what you're saying is that your mind is made up, and you'll just explain\naway any differences at being statistically insignificant?\n\n\nSo you'll just explain away any inconsistancies in your \"theory\" as being\n\"a special case\".\n\n\nYou just equated them. Re-read your own words.\n\n\nA study release in 1991 found that 11% of female seagulls are lesbians.\n\n\nNow, apply this last sentence of your to YOUR theory. Notice how your are\ncontridicting observations?\n\n\nYou don't know much math, do you? The ability to use SAS to determine the\nlength of the third side of the triangle is fundemental to geometry.\n\n\nGoals <> postulates.\n\nAgain, if one of the \"goals\" of this \"objective/natural morality\" system\nyou are proposing is \"survival of the species\", then homosexuality is\nimmoral.", "# # A new natonal study on male sexual behavior, the most thorough\n# # examination of American men's sexual practices published since\n# # the Kinsey report more than four decades ago,\n# \n# Right off the bat this information is flawed. \"Most throrough\"? I'm\n# sorry, but Masters & Johnson put out a report within the past few\n# years. The Kinsey Institute has been quite active since it was\n# founded oh-so-many years ago. They, too, recently put out a new\n# report on sexuality.\n\nI was quoting a news story. I have no idea why they claim this was\nthe most \"through examination.\"\n\n# # shows about 2\n# # percent of the men surveyed had engaged in homosexual sex and\n# # 1 percent considered themselves exclusively homosexual.\n# \n# I hate to be picky, but let's do the math. If we take the cities of\n# New York City and Los Angeles alone, we can find approximately 3.5\n# million gay people...making about 1.75 million gay men.\n\nWHAT? Even in San Francisco, the Dept. of Public Health estimates\nthat only 11% of the male population is gay. What you are claiming\nis that of the 16 million people in the NYC and LA areas, that more\nthan 10% are gay. What is the source of your numbers? Keep in\nmind that attempts by CDC to determine homosexual percentage in\nAmerican cities have given numbers <3%.\n\n# 1% of the American male population is about 1.25 million.\n# \n# So what this study says is that all gay males live in New York City or\n# Los Angeles, and about half-a-million people are lying about being gay.\n# \n# Something smells funny....\n\nYes, your 1.75 million number smells funny.\n\n# Brian Evans | \"Bad mood, bad mood...Sure I'm in a bad mood!", " >It seems that conservatives are putting a lot of effort into\n >showing up the 10% figure, but that really doesn't make a\n >difference. Like I said, who cares how many there are? Would\n >the fact that they're only 1% of the population justify\n >discrimination against them? I don't think so.\n \nUh, well, Golly Gee Whiz. Let me see, when the new President, as his first\nbig \"policy act\" tries to force homosexuals (acceptance thereof) on the\nmilitary, despite polls showing a consistent 75%+ against it, and the\nminority is only 1%, well, gee, I sure think that is newsworthy.\n\nTells you something about the fascist politics being practiced ....\n\n\n-- \nThere are actually people that STILL believe Love Canal was some kind of\nenvironmental disaster. Weird, eh?", "\tNot really. I think it is less than 10%.", "Tony-\n\nWhile I honestly believe you believe you are doing a \"good thing\" by posting\nthat piece of propaganda, I believe the more people believe that the more they\nwill feel justified in their blatant persecution of gay oriented people. I\nhave seen the film called \"The Gay Agenda\" and along with my church we found\nit to be horrifying. Not because of what was actually shown (cleaver use of\neditting can create any image one wants to portray), rather becaseu we are familia\nfamiliar with how widely it was actively distributed and how many naive people\nare actually believing the garbage found within it. The truth is that neither\nyou nor I can fully speak for anyone who calls themself gay, but knowing as\nmany as I do and knowing their testimonies and witnessing thier faith and life\nI have to say that the report you posted is a very biased report, something\nobviously claimed against gays as well. The truth is that unless YOU are\ninnately gay you cannot know what harm you are causing. I speak as an\nabolitionist who supports affirming gay rights in our society. I do not\nsupport wild sex or any other misrepresentations perpetrated by Christian\nFundamentalist extremists, but I know people who are not the sexual deviants\nyour report paints them to be. It is no mistake that the APA removed\nhomosexuality from it's list of mental illnesses, it is also no mistake that\nthere are many Christians and homophobes who long to bring it back to the list.\nI do not feel threatened by gays, I don't understand why others are.\n\nThe following is an article concerning two of the more popular ex-gay min-\nistries: Exodus International & Homosexuals Anonymous.\n\nTHE FOUNDER OF AN \"EX-GAY\" SUPPORT GROUP CHOOSES HOMO OVER HETERO\n\nby Robert Pela (from Gay oriented magazine ADVOCATE)\n\nIn December 1985, David Caligiuri received one of The Advocate's homophobia rewaa\nawards: the A Prayer A Day Keeps the Lust Away citation. As director of FREE\nINDEED, a national ex-gay ministry, Caligiuri was singled out for offering\ndiscontented gays and lesbians \"a way out of the homosexual death-style\"\nthrough prayer. \"I'd like to give the award back,\" Caligiuri now laughs, \"I'm\nno longer deserve it.\"\n Caligiuri's eight year involvement with the national \"ex-gay\" movement peaked\nwith his founding of the Phoenix chapter of Homosexuals Anonymous (HA) as well\nas Free Indeed. He has since abandoned his pulpit and now says that the ex-\ngay movement is a fruitless effort based on deception. \"There's no reality\nin it,\" he says, \"I was selling a product, and my product was a lie.\"\n Headed up by national ministries like Exodus International and Courage, the\norganizations of the ex-gay movement rely on the tenents of born-again\nChristianity to convince disatisfied homosexuals -- usually young gay men who\nare just coming out -- that they can shed their sexuality by suppressing their\nsexual urges and embracing Christianity. \"We offer support to people who are\nseeking to leave the sin of homosexuality,\" explains Bob Davies, director of\nExodus. He ventures that \"about 80% of those seeking to abandon their homo-\nsexuality are men.\"\n \"Anybody who is involved in the ex-gay ministry is misguided and is wasting\ntheir time,\" says Lisa Seeley, a former \"redeemed lesbian\" who worked with\nCaligiuri as HA and appeared with him on the Sally Jessy Raphael show. \"These\norganizations are for people who are spiritually and emotionally wounded.\"\n \"It's possible to change your identity or your behavior,\" says sex educator\nBrian McNaught, author of _On Being Gay_. \"But it's really impossible to\nchange your orientation. These people are no longer calling themselves gay,\nbut they continue to have same-sex erotic feelings.\"\n Caligiuri says he founded Free Indeed after an ominous week in 1981 when all\nhell broke loose in his personal life. A few days after his lover ended both\ntheir romance and their business partnership, Caligiuri was sexually assaulted\nby a man he picked up in a bar. \"I was really drunk,\" he recalls, \"and I\nwent home with this guy. He tied me up and raped me. He left me tied up all\nnight, and the next morning he raped me again.\"\n When Caligiuri was eventually freed by the attacker, he returned home to the\nhome he shared with his ex-lover. \"He had another man there with him,\"\nCaligiuri recalls. \"I thought at this time, 'If this is what being gay is\nabout, I don't want to be this way anymore.\"\n Caligiuri vowed that if he could find a way out, he would share his discovery\nwith others. He organized an antigay contingent to demonstrate at Phoenix's\ngay pride parade in June 1985, and a few months later Free Indeed held its\nfirst public protest. At a meeting to promote a gay civil rights ordinance,\nFree Indeed members loudly blasted gays, telling them ther were sinners headed\nfor hell.\n Free Indeed began receiving about a hundred telephone calls a week, thanks\nin part to a deceptive listing in the local yellow pages. \"We were listed\nunder Lesbian and Gay Alternative Services,\" Caligiuri says, \"so people\nthought we were a gay information switchboard. People would call to find out\nwhere the local bars were, and we'd preach to them about the sins of homo-\nsexuality.\" Ruses like this are typical of the movement, Caligiuri says,\nadding, \"They'll do anything to reach these people.\"\n \"David used to go on radio and say really stupid things,\" recalls Peter\nKelly, a counselor at Phoenix's Catholic diocese AIDS program, \"like that\nhe knew he was gay when he started wearing pastel colors.\"\n Caligiuri's family first found out about his ministry when they saw him on\nRaphael's syndicated talk show in 1985. \"They were relieved,\" he recalls.\n\"They figured that if they had to have a gay person in the family, better\nthat I should be a 'reformed' gay person.\"\n But Caligiuri was hardly reformed. \"By the time I appeared on Sally's\nshow,\" \"I'd started having sex with men again. Men would call our hotline\nand tell me about thier latest sin: sex with their pastor, sex with their\nfather. I was horny all the time.\"\n Unable to risk going to gay bars, where he might be recognized from his\nnumerous television appearances, Caligiuri says he \"used to go to bookstores\nand get blowjobs.\" When he wasn't working the bookstores, he was sleeping\nwith other \"reformed\" homosexuals.\n \"I didn't realize it at first, but a lot of the HA leaders were having sex\nwith one another,\" Caligiuri says. \"We'd go to conferences in other cities,\nand we'd be paired up in hotel rooms. Everybody was sleeping with everybody\nelse.\"\n By the time he appeared on 'AM Philadelphia' television show in May 1988,\nCaligiuri was having anonymous sex a couple times a week. When the show's\nhost asked him if he ever \"acted on temptation,\" his answer was a lie.\n Caligiuri's duplicity began to take it's toll on him, however. He was\nsuffering from chrinic fatigue syndrome and candidiasis, a dibilitating\nyeast infection, and this led to his escape from the sect. \"I was too sick\nto go to church,\" he explains. \"The more time I spent away from those people\nthe more I began to feel like myself. I began to remember who I used to be.\"\n Late in 1991, Caligiuri turned Free Indeed phone lines over to a local\nchurch and closed the ministry's doors. \"I'd convinced myself that there\nis no need in the world for ex-gay people,\" he says.\n Today, Caligiuri, 31, is studying alternative spiritualities (\"I'm interest-\ned in belief systems that aren't judgemental.\"), considering romance (\"But\nnot with a CHristian!\"), and searching for a new project to devote himself to.\n\"I feel compelled to commit myself to gay causes,\" he says. \"I want to\neventually stop feeling guilty about what I did and make up for the damage I\nmay have brought to our community.\"\n\n---end article---\n\nCaligiuri's tory is by no means unique and I have read several other articles\nof former leaders and founders of 'ex-gay' ministries who have said very similar th\nsimilar things. Fortuantely not all of them have left Christianity, but have\ncome to realize that God loves them despite the attitudes of others. Some,\nlike Chris Glaser, director of the Presbyterian \"Lazarus Project\" of West\nHollywood Presbyterian Church have actually been working with the gay community\nto bring them into the sheepfold of Christ and encouraging real ethical values\nof sexuality within the sphere of being gay. I have also, as I said talked and become\nand become close friends with many who once attended such groups as \"Love In\nAction\" and others, who either once claimed to have been \"reformed\" or who\nwere too honest with themselves to live a lie, no matter who was disappointed\nin them. Some were even encouraged to marry as a way of \"sealing\" their\nnew heterosexuality, only to eventually start hitting the bars, bathhouses\nand bookstores, since these were usually activities under the concealment of\nnight and one-night-stands of promiscuous behavior meant no continuous \"sin\"\nthrough a committed relationship. This is a horrible trap which the CHurch\nhas dumped on the backs of the truly gay oriented people, and the very inno-\ncent victims in these cases are the wives and children of such marriages. Yet\nthe church insists that there are only two options they are willing to allow\ngay people: 1) heterosexuality or 2) celebacy. This is sad. What is also\nmrtifying, is in the cases of those who cannot suppress their desires and\nfear for thier sanity in such a mixed up confusion that the church forces on\nthem, they may even opt for 'suicide' or surgical dampering of the brain\nfunctions. In the past lobotomies and heavey drug suppressants were common-\nplace. There are now becoming available more and more literature on the\nthreat of coercive Christianity toward gays, such as Sylvia Pennington's\n_\"Ex-Gays? There Are None_. and others. There are also a great many fact\nbased books being written to help people trapped in this confusion such as\nMaury Johnston's _Gays Under Grace_, and Chris Glaser's _Come Hom!_. I\nseriously recommend those for people seeking help for this persecution and\nself-acceptance.", "\n\n \"Women are only interested in clothes and shopping\"\n \"Whites are imperialist colonial fascists\"\n \"Blacks are lazy uneducated scum\"\n \"Men are rapists\"\n \"Homosexuals support child-molesting\"\n\n Slogans, my dear Cramer, are not an adequate substitute for thought.\n", " Bzzzzt. THANK you for playing, but obviously you are not reading the \n material as it is presented. According to the report I've got in my \n hands, the Newsweek article (which reported that \"2 to 3 percent\" of the \n population is gay) used the criteria of \"No heterosexual contact in the \n past year.\" But at the same time, the University of Denver study points \n out, quite dramatically, that 60% of all self-identifying gay men have ", "I am so tired about all this debate on how many gays there\nare! Such arguments are basically worthless, imho. Would it \nreally matter if it were millions of people who are regularly\ndenied access to housing, employment, and personal security or\neven only one? \n As for death threats, I happen to know from personal\nexperience that gay people are far more likely to receive\nthem based on political veiws or even personal philosophies\nrelated to the issue of sexual orientation than are heterosex\nuals. Not a week goes by that I personally or one of my friends\nis not physically or verbally harrassed for even appearing to\nbe gay. \n Everyone is garaunteed certain unalienable rights under\nour current form of government in theory, yet every day \ngay people are victimized by their local governments, by\nthe police force, and by (for the most part) an uninformed\nand ignorant public. Is this democracy? I don't think so.\n A society's sense of justice is judged on the basis of\nthe treatment of the people who make up that society.\nAll of those people. And yes, that includes gays, lesbians,\nand bisexuals whose \"crimes\" have no victims, and who\nare as varied and diverse as the society of wich they are\na part.", "# -#\tJust curious (don't have to answer if you feel uncomfortable):\n# -#\thow many times have YOU had sex with boys?\n# \n# why do you care? if a total stranger asked you how often you had sex,\n# would you answer?\n# \n# # henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc. / \nSubject: EnviroLeague\n\n\"Birth Announcement\" on March 7, 1993, from EARTH Forum, CompuServe\n Information Service\n===================================================================\n \n FORMAL ANNOUNCEMENT\n -------------------\n \n (SM)\n EnviroLeague\n \nA new youth movement,\"EnviroLeague,\" was recently born, according to its\nfounder, Boyd R. Critz, III (CIS ID# 71611,365), of Peoria, Illinois.\nEnviroLeague exists for the education of youth, both male and female, in\nmatters concerning their values related to and responsibility for our\nenvironment.\n \nIncorporated as an Illinois not-for-profit corporation, its Articles and\ninitial applications for a service mark have now been filed. According to\nCritz, its draft Bylaws contain the following statement of Mission and\nObjectives:\n \n MISSION\n \n It is the Mission of EnviroLeague and its adult members\n to foster and implement the improved education of young\n people in the need to conduct their lives as Stewards\n of The Earth, to leave The Earth in a better condition\n than they found it, and to otherwise act as responsible,\n moral and ethical users of their environment. To pursue\n the accomplishment of this Mission, EnviroLeague shall\n seek to serve as a catalyst, focusing in common cause the\n separate efforts of all groups desiring the preservation,\n improvement, and responsible use of the environment in\n which we must all live.\n \n OBJECTIVES\n \n In pursuit of the Mission of EnviroLeague, its primary\n objectives shall be:\n (1) To establish a Movement involving as many\n environmentally concerned organizations as\n possible, said Movement having as its primary\n focus the education and participatory\n involvement of young people in appropriate areas\n of environmental concern;\n (2) To develop and provide to such organizations and\n their branches a full complement of program\n materials for their use, including suitable\n uniforms, insignia and other badges, written\n ideas, syllabi and information, literature and\n other items as shall seem appropriate and\n desirable;\n (3) To serve as a \"clearing house\" for the exchange\n of program ideas, materials and information\n among said organizations; and\n (4) To assist environmentally concerned\n organizations to recruit and train the necessary\n adult leadership for their youth programs.\n \nEnviroLeague will operate through three \"Program Divisions\" serving youth in\nthe elementary, middle and high school grades, respectively. Service shall be\nthrough formation of \"EnviroLeague Teams,\" either by EnviroLeague itself or by\nenvironmentally conscious organizations (or their local branches) wishing a\ncharter to use programs developed by EnviroLeague.\n \nEnviroLeague, as it develops, will be controlled by the actual adult leaders\nof each local Team, and will have no nationally imposed obstacles to\nmembership or adult leadership status not based upon relevant improper\nconduct. Organizations accepting a charter may, however, impose certain\nadditional standards for their own use of the program material. Should such\norganizations do so, EnviroLeague will commit itself to forming, as soon as\npossible, new nearby Teams having no such restrictions, particularly as to\nyouth membership.\n \nEnviroLeague will operate on the principle that youth will have much to\ncontribute to developing its programs. Thus, the top youth leaders of its\nTeams for middle and high school youth may become involved in governing any\nlocal administrative groups, and those for its high school youth may be\ninvolved in similar functions at the national level.\n \nProgram materials are in development at this time. Copies of the \"draft\"\nportions of the Mentor's Manual (manual for adult leadership) will be in the\nEARTH Forum, Library 17. These files will be updated as development takes\nplace.\n \nCompuServe is particularly proud that EnviroLeague's founder chose this\nelectronic medium to make the first public announcement of its formation.\nThis announcement is being made simultaneously in both the OUTDOOR and EARTH\nForums.\n \nThe electronic home of EnviroLeague is in CompuServe's Earth Forum - GO\nEARTH - message and library areas 17, both named \"EnviroLeague.\"\n============================================================================\n \nSubsequently, EnviroLeague's Initial Governance Council has held its first\nmeeting. Boyd Critz was elected as the first EnviroLeague Chief Guardian\n(equivalent to Chairman of the Board or CEO). He can be reached at home\n(309) 675-4483 in case of real need. Also, mail can be addressed to:\n EnviroLeague\n P.O. Box 418\n Peoria, IL 61651-0418\n \nThose interested in starting an EnviroLeague Team might just establish\ncontact, to receive a diskette (IBM DOS, ASCII) with initial information.\n-- ", ": Here's a hypothetical question... If Clayton said something like \"all\n: those niggers are really stupid.\" (Please don't be offended, I'm not racist\n: but merely using an example of Clayton's malign logic). And then said he\n: read a report that a lot of blacks in inner cities dropped out of school, I\n: bet he wouldn't have your support. Yet he can claim that all homosexuals are\n: dishonest, evil, lying child molesters without *PERSONALLY* having a single\n: homosexual friend or acquaintance and you'll sit there and support him.\n\n: God created a place for bigots. It's called Hell and Clayton is going\n: to burn there for a long time. I pray for him to find in his heart the\n: Christian values he espouses so that he can learn to love his gay brothers\n: and sisters, because anyone with so much hatred in his soul coulld never\n: be righteous.\n\nThere is a difference between supporting Claytons opinions and supporting\nhis right to speak. I want you to know that you cannot educate and/or\nelevate ones understanding by calling him names. Clayton has an opinion\nwhich in his mind is as valid as any opinion anyone else on the net has.\nIf you were to walk up to black person to talk about blacks in the inner\ncity and began the conversation with \"Those niggers in th.......\". You\nwould lose the attention of that black person by the time you spoke your\nsecond word. All name calling and derisive remarks do is turn off the\naudience you are trying to address. Clayton is guilty of that and as\nsuch has distracted attention away from his message to bits and pieces\nof his conversation. I don't understand why people want to repeat his\nmistakes!\n", "\nWow, does this mean 2 out of 5 homosexuals will be at the March\non Washington? How *very* interesting.\n\ncpk\n-- \nIt's been 80 days. Do you know where your wallet is?", "# Recent studies have shown that the number of men who have\n# engaged in homosexual activities in the last decade is 2.3%\n# and the number of men who are exclusively homosexual is 1.1%.\n# These figures are much less than those that came from earlier\n# studies that showed that homosexuality among men is a lot\n# higher.\n# \n# So, what can we deduce from these figures? Are there a lot\n# less male homosexuals than there used to be or are men\n# (perhaps women too) not as honest as they used to be about\n# there sexuality? Presumably, the people that were polled in\n\nYou mean, in the 1940s, men and women were much more open about\ntheir homosexuality than today? Want to try that one again?\n\n# this survey were assured of their anonymnity so they should\n# have answered the questions honestly I suppose. However, it\n# could be that gays feel so repressed and denigrated by society\n# that they didn't feel that they could be forthcoming about there\n# sexuality in something like a survey. If this true then is it\n# possible that there is a lot more gays out there than we are led\n# to believe?\n# \n# Perhaps if Americans were more open about there sexuality---I think\n# most Americans aren't---then we might discover that there are really\n# quite a few more people out there who are orientated toward the same\n# sex---men and women included. I'd venture a guess that there is a\n# lot of people out there who have considered having a relationship\n# with someone of the same sex at some point in there life. Maybe they\n# didn't take their longings seriously, but this doesn't make these\n# longings any less valid. Therefore, if Americans weren't so\n# repressed about their sexuality in general---as I believe they may be\n# ---then we'd see a lot more people \"coming out of the closet\".\n\nYou mean, ignore study after study, so that we can continue to \naccept a study (Kinsey's) that is obviously wrong? \n\n# As for myself, I'm a heterosexual and I've never considered having\n# sex with another man. That's just the way I am...I could have just\n# as easily of been gay I suppose. One of the big debates about\n# homosexuality is whether or not it's a type of behavior that is\n# learned or if one is just born that way. IMHO, the more likely\n# explanation is that it's some combination of the two.\n\nBased on what, besides your own warm fuzzy feelings?\n\n# Here's something to ponder upon: have any of you gay-bashers out\n# there ever considered that homosexuals probably deem their sexual\n# orientation as being a state of affairs that is just as much an\n# intrinsic and \"natural\" part of their life as heterosexuals do\n# about their own sexuality? In other words, someone who is *truly*\n\nAlcoholics share that feeling, until they hit bottom.\n\n# gay may not be able to live any other way. Even if they date someone\n# of the opposite sex or get married, in their *heart* they are still a\n# homosexual. Likewise, if someone who is *truly* heterosexual forms\n# a relationship with someone of the same sex, then they are *still*\n# a heterosexual even though outward appearances may suggest otherwise.\n# \n# Scott Kennedy, Brewer and Patriot\n\nUnless, of course, the problem is that homosexuality is a form\nof mental disorder, caused by childhood sexual abuse, as a number of\nrecent works suggest.\n\nIf homosexuals would stop using the government to impose their\nmorality on others (antidiscrimination laws) and leave our children\nalone, I wouldn't care in the least what they did in private. But\nuntil they get over the liberal notion that the proper role of \ngovernment is to tell peaceful people how to live, I have no choice\nbut to continue to point out that homosexuality is not an \"alternative\nlifestyle,\" but a sickness.\n\n# Before: \"David Koresh is a cheap thug who interprets\n# the Bible through the barrel of a gun...\" --ATF spokesman\n# After: \"[The ATF] is a cheap thug who interprets\n# [the Constitution] through the barrel of a gun...\" --Me\n\n\nGood signature!\n", "\n\nJudging from past experience (the '87 March, a Peace and Justice March the \nsame year, and 3 different Pro-coice Marches), The Park Service will come out\nwith an estimate that is approximately 1/2 the estimate that organizers will\ncome up with - though the last Choice march I went to had a sign-in system, \nand the numbers ended up closer. And then you've got the media types in their\nhelicopters, rolling dice.\n\nI believe the MOW plans and handing out some sort of wristband thingy, and \nbasing their count on those. I see two problems with this. One, can they \nget *everybody* to take one (and only one)? Two, they couldn't possibly have\nbeen able to choose a color/design that won't clash with *somebody's* outfit!", "\nSo there are less gays, then the gays claim.\n\nDream on. Abortion and African-American Civil rights rallies don't even bring\nin half of that.\n\n\nI was wondering why I wasn't getting laid.\n\n\nIf it's more, then who cares?\n\n\nActually, I bet you more gay/bi men are as not as promiscuous as gay men, \nbecause more of them could have the \"option\" of living a straight life, and \nwith social pressures, probably would at least try.\n\n\nDid you know that is is a fact that homosexuality was comparatively high in \nHitler's storm troopers (SA) before he came to power. I wonder if they got to \nput the triangles on themselves......", "\nWOW! Another Clayton wannabe. Typical response: lack of logic.\n\nDefine 'deviant': someone who deviates from the normal. Ok, so far.\nDefine 'normal': erm, umm. If you define yourself as normal then it is for\nyou to prove that you are (within limits, which then brings in the question,\nwhat are the limits? For you we may have to broaden them to other's intolerance\n;-) ) 'normal'. Difficult to prove. From what you have posted it must follow\nthat `normal` to you means someone without compassion and a sense of justice.\nBut it does look as if you went to the Clayton school of logic, doesn't it?\n\n\nAgain an astounding lack of logic! Wow!\n\nYou must define what you say such that everyone agrees. Here you have used\nthe phrase \"sexual deviant\". How in the hell do you define that? As someone\nwho does something sexually that _you_ don't? By this definition you most\nprobably mean the majority of the planet. How do you know that your next\ndoor neighbour doesn't like custard to be spread over his genetalia then\nhave it licked off by his wife? Is this sexual deviancy? How do we know\nthat you don't like something sexually which others may find repulsive? Is \nhaving sex doggy fashion a sexual deviancy? Please be more specific, and\nwhere you do, back up your claims. Or I may have to go to hospital due to\nlaughing too much at yours and Clayton's postings.\n\nSecondly, if we assume for the moment that the phrase 'sexual deviant' means\nsuch people as homosexuals, bisexuals &c. (basically everyone you don't like),\nI think that your phrase \"do not comprise a `political minorit[y]`\" (why the\nbrackets?) is a non-sequiteur. Gay groups exist which lobby their governments.\nThat is a fact. Prove it false. Hence they are a politial group. You \nstate that they are not a political minority. Are they therefore a\npolitical majority? I think you boobed really big on this one. Try thinking\nabout your arguments.\n\n\nProve the first statement please. Dates, phone numbers, &c.\n\nAgain your logic fails. Again you make statements which you cannot\n(and most probably will not) maintain.\n\nYou state that a person (girl, in this context) who considers equal rights\nfor all humans to be an airhead? As Clayton (your best mate?) would say:\nit just shows how screwed up you are.\n\n \n\nProof please. Proof that homosexuality is not part of the natural order.\nProof that nature has always asserted itself. Are you saying that nature\nis a conciousness? Are you pretending that you have the ability to see the\nfuture? Are you god(tm)? In fact, by your arguement, are you waiting for \nthe black people to become slaves again? Because they were reviled as\nsub-human (nb: *not* my view) at one time? Again your arguement falls\non its ass.\n\n\n\nTouchy touchy touchy!\n\nRight. I have shot holes in each and every one of your arguements. You are\nmost probably going to put me in your kill file because you have no answers\nto my questions and challenges. Since you cannot support your arguments it\nmerely goes to show that what you write is based upon your personal prejudices,\nand cannot be taken to be fact of any kind.\n\nI await an intelligent response.....\n\n\n", "\nIt is obvious that Mr. Cramer has the 'ability' to take the 'leap of faith'.\nI have listened to several of the men involved in this study, and even they\nclaim that the men involved will not 'tell the whole truth'.\n\nI put little value in extrapolating from these types of 'studies' or 'surveys',\nthey have limited subsets of individuals, and there is alot of skewing due\nto improper selection methods, and the bias of the people involved in the\nstudies on both sides- subject and researcher.\n\nWould you admit to be part of a group that was not very well liked? Would \nyou admit to having had sex with other people at some considered abnormal\nrate (this applies to heterosexual men). In fact, as one gay man and one\nstraight man put it, \"men lie about the number of partners, because that's\nthe thing to do\"- our culture for the male almost requires this type of\nresponse. It may seem harmless and silly, but carries a large emotional\nand mental price tag.", " ...\n\nI think this is a big leap sex->depression. One example is myself,\nwhere no sex->depression :) But, seriously 1) promiscuity is on a decline,\ndepression is not and 2) it might be more reasonable to say \ndepression->promiscuity. I think depression is more likely to come\nfrom emotional problems (relationships, family, job, friends) and\npromiscuity is used as an escape.\nSince I see marriage as a civil and religious bond rather than an\nemotional bond, I don't see a problem with sex before (not outside of)\nmarriage so long as you have the same commitment and devotion as\nwhat is expected from a married couple. Of course, this is just \nmy opinion.", "Any thoughts on who is going to count all of the gorgeous bodies at the MOW?\n\nThe press? The White House Staff? The most Junior Senator? The King of\nthe motss/bi? \n\n\tJust curious as to whose bias we are going to see when the numbers \nget brought out.\n\n\t\n\n-- \n\t\tbram\n", "(Well, I'll email also, but this may apply to other people, so\nI'll post also.)\n\n\n\nYour boss should be the person bring these problems to. If he/she\ndoes not seem to take any action, keep going up higher and higher.\nSexual harrassment does not need to be tolerated, and it can be an\nenormous emotional support to discuss this with someone and know that\nthey are trying to do something about it. If you feel you can not\ndiscuss this with your boss, perhaps your company has a personnel\ndepartment that can work for you while preserving your privacy. Most\ncompanies will want to deal with this problem because constant anxiety\ndoes seriously affect how effectively employees do their jobs.\n\nIt is unclear from your letter if you have done this or not. It is\nnot inconceivable that management remains ignorant of employee\nproblems/strife even after eight years (it's a miracle if they do\nnotice). Perhaps your manager did not bring to the attention of\nhigher ups? If the company indeed does seem to want to ignore the\nentire problem, there may be a state agency willing to fight with\nyou. (check with a lawyer, a women's resource center, etc to find out)\n\nYou may also want to discuss this with your paster, priest, husband,\netc. That is, someone you know will not be judgemental and that is\nsupportive, comforting, etc. This will bring a lot of healing.\n\n\nThis happens to a lot of people. Honest. I believe it may seem\nto be due to gross insensitivity because of the feelings you are\ngoing through. People in offices tend to be more insensitive while\nworking than they normally are (maybe it's the hustle or stress or...)\nI've had this happen to me a lot, often because they didn't realize\nmy car was broken, etc. Then they will come back and wonder why I\ndidn't want to go (this would tend to make me stop being angry at\nbeing ignored and make me laugh). Once, we went off without our\nboss, who was paying for the lunch :-)\n\n\nWell, if you can't turn to the computer for support, what would\nwe do? (signs of the computer age :-)\n\nIn closing, please don't let the hateful actions of a single person\nharm you. They are doing it because they are still the playground\nbully and enjoy seeing the hurt they cause. And you should not\naccept the opinions of an imbecile that you are worthless - much\nwiser people hold you in great esteem.", "#That describes some straights -- and nearly all homosexual males.\n\nCan you provide any evidence that doesn't ahve massive selection\neffects?\n\nNo, I thought not.\n\nJust slander on your part.\n", "On 23 Apr 93 00:18:59 GMT, Clayton Cramer observed:\n: # Can someone tell me why when Mr. Cramer spouts on about homosexuals,\n: # he only addresses homosexual men, and never, in any post I've read,\n: # addressed lesbians? Granted, I stopped reading all his posts long, long\n: # ago, so perhaps I missed something. \n\n: Because women very, very seldom molest children.\n\nUn-hunh. Yeah. Right. Sure.\n\nYou know that list of things that are stereotypically American -- Mom,\napple pie, etc.? You don't hear too many stories about Mom being\na child molester, because such stories would simply be unAmerican.\n\nBut that doesn't say that it doesn't happen.\n", "Didn't the new study asked \"have you engaged in homosexual intercourse\nwithin the last two years\" whereas Kinsey asked \"have you ever engaged\nor thought about engaging in homosexual activity\". Sort of like the \ndifference between \"did you have yogurt this morning\" and \"are you \nallergic to lactose\".\n\n-- \n\n -- Michal", "# #However, monogamous homosexual male sex is so rare that for practical\n# #purposes, homosexuality spreads AIDS.\n# #-- \n# #Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer My opinions, all mine!\n# #Relations between people to be by mutual consent, or not at all.\n\n# You fucking homophobic moron!!!!!!!!! What about IV drug use? What about \n# tainted blood? What about multi-sexual partners? If you knew anything\n\nWhat about them? Those also spread AIDS. Where did I say anything\ndifferent? Go back and read what I wrote. The statement \"homosexuality\nspreads AIDS\" is not made false by the fact that there are other\nmethods of spreading it as well.\n\n# about what you are talking about, you would be dangerous. As it is right now,\n# you are a persistent boil on the skin of humanity that needs to be lanced.\n# \n# Joe Cipale\n\nTypical homosexual response.\n\n", "\n I thumbed through the Janus Report in a bookstore recently looking\n for a clue about their methodology. They were very unclear about\n it, but as far as I could tell they relied on their professional\n associates in the psychotherapy profession to provide the subjects,\n interviews, and numbers. If so, this would hardly represent an\n average cross-section. I posted to Usenet at the time asking for\n more data about their methodology but answer came there none. (I\n must have been out of my mind for even asking for factual information\n on Usenet!)\n\n\n\n This is the problem. People have to have a lot of confidence in \n the anonymity of a study before they can counted on to speak \n freely about stuff like that. But I agree that if someone's \n going to lie it will be in the direction of a gay person claiming\n to be straight rather than the other way around.\n\n\n\n I don't see why there's any more evidence for this figure than any\n other. It seems totally arbitrary. \n\n", "#Compared to the table I have already posted from Masters, Johnson,\n#and Kolodny showing male homosexual partners, it is apparent that\n#homosexual men are dramatically more promiscuous than the general\n#male population. \n\nDid you ever consider the selection effect that those who are willing\nto admit to being a member sexual minority (homosexuality) are more\nwilling to admit to being a member of another sexual minority (highly\npromiscious)? \n\nI didn't think that you did.\n", "\n\nAgreed. We need more folks to admit they're bi.\n\n-- \nMichael D. Adams\t(starowl@a2i.rahul.net)\t Champaign, IL / southeast AL", "\n\n\n\nOh, do please try not to be ludicrous. SO=Significant Other, a term I employed to avoid the awkward construction \"girlfriend or wife\".\n\n\n\nA \"deviant\" is someone who does not fit an \"accepted norm.\" By that definition, I would certainly be a deviant, as bisexuality is not an accepted norm in American society so far. This term, of course, really has no negative aspects inherent in its denotation. I presume you intended it as a term of abuse. It's a great pity you feel such tactics to be necessary, but hardly surprising since you have no factual basis for your absurd beliefs.\n\n\n\nMay I attempt to emulate your style of discourse with a term of abuse? Ahem...You addle-pated jellyfish! The post to which I responded was a highly amusing one in which you belittled homosexuals for having no political clout. I would be further amused if you would explain to me why having no political clout and constituting a political minority are different.\n\n\n\nAnd yet you call them \"girls!\" The feminists would be up in arms.\n\n\nCough, cough. Well, well, you certainly are a fine, upstanding fellow, you are, sir. And like many \"fine, upstanding fellows,\" you have the reading comprehension of a dyslexic anteater. Perhaps I should have been more explicit in pointing out that females constitute a political minority in this country when last I checked, and that your obvious lack of respect for these minorities equates to a lack of respect for women. That is, of course, a conceptual stretch of logic, but given your slow uptake as de\n\n\n\n\nmonstrated so far, I figure we should start simple and work up. Don't worry, you'll get it\n \n!\n\n\n\nThis is very true, this bit about nature asserting itself. Homosexuality has always been a part of human society, and always will be, for that is the natural order. If you're naive enough to believe otherwise, go right ahead; we'll try not to snicker too loudly behind your back.\n\n\"Inevitable.\" Chortle. Anyone would think you had some idea what you were talking about. I haven't seen fact one from you, and until I do you can just dispense with the bullshit, and tell us what we already know, that you're a clueless little slime mold with no concept of reality beyond The Donna Reed Show. Live a little, and then come back and tell us all about the \"natural order of things.\" You're in a bubble, and it's really going to rock your world when you come out.\n\n\n\n\"Foolish and misguided.\" Oh, this is too much. So which religious figure do YOU believe you are? And how do you know so much about the nature of man? You're almost too amusing to be worth the effort of crushing your pealike brain. \n\nGee, you sound awfully sure of yourself. \"Methinks the bigot doth protest too much.\" Admit it: you're scared shitless that what you've been spoonfed all your sorry little life was wrong, and you're trying to escape that fear by a blind faith that you know, deep down, is based in nothing, nothing at all. Go ahead, clutch your unfounded declaratives to your empty breast; ignore the myriad of societies that have accepted homosexuality as equally valid or even mystical. Ignore the solid, inescapable fact t\n\n\n\n\nhat we've existed as long as humans have. Fear us. Go ahead. Laugh at us if it makes you feel better. We both know you're just whistling in the dark. There's one group that's stamped out whenever it appears, in any form, and that's the group of boneheads who fancy themselves morally superior. You're in that group, and you're slowly and steadily being stamped out. Preach while you can, little man...it won't be long.\n\n\nThat's the first truth you've told so far. I don't hate hets, sir. I'm bisexual, and I embrace man- and womankind alike. I have nothing against those who don't understand my love. But you deny its potency and validity. You would crush us all, human beings to a one, in your imagined divinity. It's fools like you that stir my ire...idiots with the small minds, who can't think for themselves, who know nothing about how the real world operates, and who hate because they are told what to do and do it like\n\n\n\n\n sheep, who hate everyone who refuses to be a sheep. You're not part of the norm. You're part of a minority--YES, a minority!--with supreme, o'erweening arrogance. Your hubris will topple, because it always has, because those with intelligence know it to be a clown's costume.\n\nWow, that was pretentious! I sometimes wonder why I waste my talents on zeroes like you. I really have no interest in continuing this effortless discussion; after all, this is for me the proverbial battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Come back with some swords--i.e. facts--and we shall do battle. Till then, begone from my sight.\n\nDrewcifer", "\nLast I checked I was one person, I haven't even been elected\nas a representative for \"gaydom\". Should I ascribe every thing\nyou say as representing every member of the straight community?\n\n\nThats the point. If there are several million queers in DC you had better\nstart wondering about the validity of the study.\n", "\nI *cannot* *believe* I am posting in this thread, but what\nthe hell, he asked for it.\n\nI had sort of the same reaction myself when I was first realizing\nI was bi. \"So what, >90% of everyone else is straight, I'd never\nend up with a guy anyway.\" As several people on soc.bi pointed\nout to me, this is true only if you find partners (for relationships\nor just for sex) in primarily straight circles. Nowadays with gay\nculture quite visible in major cities and such, you can easily\nfind yourself in an overwhelmingly queer social circle if you so\nchoose. (About half my friends are bi, and that's just from\nhanging out in the science fiction club and going to UCBU once a\nweek, it's not as if I have to go out of my way and hang out in\nbars or something.)\n\nSo the available pool for dates can be the same size. Unless of\ncourse you're trying to date a random sample of the US population.\n\nAs for promiscuity, I've traded email with Clayton on the topic,\nand he still doesn't seem to want to admit that yes, gay males\nare sometimes forced to resort to anonymous sex because they're\ncloseted and can't afford to be seen in a permanent relationship.\nOr that part of the promiscuity is because of the messed-up gender\nroles in our society, and when males are dating males and they've\n*all* been trained to be the aggressor in sex, there's going to\nbe more sex. Or that what's \"dysfunctional\", what's \"screwed up\"\nis societal attitudes, not gay sexuality, and that's what \nencourages deviant behavior in gay males.\n\n(also note that just because someone's had 200 sex partners \ndoesn't mean they're promiscuous. yes, it sounds ridiculous,\nbut it's quite possible for someone to go through a heavily\ncloseted phase in which they have lots of anonymous sex with\nstrangers, and then come out, start forming real relationships,\nand be monogamous or nearly so...)\n", "\n\n\n[...]\n\nNote that I _never_ said that depression and the destruction of the\nnuclear family is due _solely_ to extra-marital sex. I specifically\nsaid that it was \"a prime cause\" of this, not \"the prime cause\" or \"the\nonly cause\" of this -- I recognize that there are probably other factors\ntoo, but I think that extra-marital sex and subsequent destabilization\nof the family is probably a significant factor to the rise in\npsychological problems, including depression, in the West in the 20th\ncentury.", "\n\n\n\n\nCute anecdote, but hardly indicative of the population. From the responses\nI've received to that post (all from men, by the way) I get the impression\nthat unless a person is willing to drop down and masturbate whenever the\nneed or desire strikes, then that person is very hung up on sex.\n\nWith tv programs about \"boobs\" (Seinfeld) and \"masturbation (again Seinfeld)\nand with condoms being handed out in high schools and with the teenage\npregnancy rate and the high abortion rate here in the States, I would\nnot assume that we American's are frightened of sex. Rather we are a bit\nstupid about it. Healthy sexuality does not require flamboyance or\npromiscuity. It requires responsibility.\n", "\n1) So what?\n\n2) It will be interesting to see the reaction when 2.5million queers\n gather in Washington DC. After all if there are only 6million of\n us then this is an event unprecidented in history...\n\n\nDon't forget that 25% had 20 or more partners....\n\n\nAnd what did this study show for number of sexual contacts for those\nwho said they where homosexual? Or is that number to inconvient for\nyou....\n\n\nFuck off\n", "# ## Face it, Clayton, he was not found guilty, and so what if gays sometimes\n# ## make it consensually with 16 year old boys. There ARE 16 year old gays, you\n# ## know. And as I recall, the case of the state rested on the testimony of one\n# ## \"victim\" who declined to testify, even under threat. I have had teens since\n# ## I was 40, and so have a lot of people. Face it Clayton, you're just a jerk!\n# ## -RSW\n# ## -- \n# ## * Richard STEVEn Walz rstevew@deeptht.armory.com (408) 429-1200 *\n# ## * 515 Maple Street #1 * Without safe and free abortion women are *\n# ## * Santa Cruz, CA 95060 organ-surrogates to unwanted parasites.* *\n# #\n# #I am always amazed to see people admit to breaking the law -- and\n# #putting their address in the signature. Please tell us more about \n# #this. Were they 13? 14? Would you like to make a statement for\n# #the district attorney?\n# \n# I had sex with a 13 year old boy, it was great, we did *everything*,\n# well, a hell of a lot. It was fun anyway. Oh, and before you turn \n# purple with rage I was 12 at the time.\n# #-- \n# #Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer My opinions, all mine!\n\nThe Walz monster above, however, was past 40 when he molested these\nkids, as he says above.", "\n\nHow wrong you will be. I participated in the last National March on \nWashington (MOW) for LesGayBi rights (Oct 11, 1987) - with a turnout of \nabout 750,000 people - and we didn't have alot pissing us off at the time. \nThe big issue was the AIDS crisis, but we weren't being slapped around \nquite as bad as we are now. This time its AIDS, and Equal Rights, and \nthe Military Squabble. And this MOW has been in the planning for YEARS \nwhereas the last one was pulled together in a relatively short time. The \nlast MOW was the largest ever on D.C. and you can bet we are going to \nexceed that by a long shot. I truly believe we will exceed the 1.0 \nmillion goal the MOW committee has always had set for this event.", " Let me get this right - sorry, try again. Let me get this straight - \nwell maybe that too is a poor choice of words - someone might think \nI'm pushing a gay agenda. How about: let me try to understand this \nby re-phrasing it as an extreme. I, as a minority of one, have no right \nto a beautiful world. You, on the other hand have the right to make an \nugly one because you presume to speak for all the rest. And I cannot \ncomplain. Curious. \n\n.. \n\n\nAnd do you want everyone to do as you wish (insist on putting something \nup that will impact everyone for selfish reasons) _without_ any legislation? \nAnd no one else can even object? Somehow I think this whole shoving \ncontest has gotten way off the track. I'm ready to let this thread \ndie a quick and merciful death. \n\n", "# #From the Santa Rosa (Cal.) Press-Democrat, April 15, 1993, p. B2:\n# #\n# # Male sex survey: Gay activity low\n# #\n# # A new natonal study on male sexual behavior, the most thorough\n# # examination of American men's sexual practices published since\n# # the Kinsey report more than four decades ago, shows about 2\n# # percent of the men surveyed had engaged in homosexual sex and\n# # 1 percent considered themselves exclusively homosexual.\n# #\n# # The figures on homosexuality in the study released Wednesday\n# # by the Alan Guttmacher Institute are significantly lower than\n# # the 10 percent figure that has been part of the conventional\n# # wisdom since it was published in the Kinsey report.\n# \n# 1) So what?\n\nHomosexuals lie about the 10% number to hide the disproportionate\ninvolvement of homosexuals in child molestation. They also lie\nabout \"10%\" to keep politicians scared.\n\n# 2) It will be interesting to see the reaction when 2.5million queers\n# gather in Washington DC. After all if there are only 6million of\n# us then this is an event unprecidented in history...\n\nBut many of the people who will be marching aren't homosexuals, but\nother members of the leftist agenda.\n\n# #The article also contains numbers on the number of sexual partners.\n# #The median number of sexual partners for all men 20-39 was 7.3.\n# \n# Don't forget that 25% had 20 or more partners....\n\nNot surprising. Remember, that study includes homosexuals as well.\n\n# #Compared to the table I have already posted from Masters, Johnson,\n# #and Kolodny showing male homosexual partners, it is apparent that\n# #homosexual men are dramatically more promiscuous than the general\n# #male population. \n# \n# And what did this study show for number of sexual contacts for those\n# who said they where homosexual? Or is that number to inconvient for\n# you....\n\nIt wasn't published.\n\n# #It's a shame that we don't have a breakdown for\n# #straight men vs. gay/bi men -- that would show even more dramatically\n# #how much more promiscuous gay/bi men are.\n# \n# Fuck off\n\nTypical homoseuxal response.\n\n\n", "The only info I have is my area is not having a large march. They are leaving\nit up to each congragation. IMO this means organizers found it too difficult\nto manage or no one feels the need to be involved.\n\nI'm not casting stones, my involvement with the Lord does not include the March\nthis year. Maybe He is giving a message by the lack of one?? JLS", " >Clayton, babe, please define the word `molest`. Are you using\n >a legal term or a proper dictionary term? Molest, as far as I\n >can remember, means `to do damage to person(s)`. My mate,\n >Mike, was lured into a woman's parlour when he was 14. Is\n >that molestation? A number of my friends (straight) lost\n >their virginity before that. Were they 'molested'? They told\n >me that they thoroughly enjoyed the experience. I see no\n >damage.\n >\n >Please stop pushing your objective morality on others. If you\n >push, people won't fall over and say 'Ye gads, you're\n >right!', they'll just push back.\n >\n >Have you signed up for that logic course yet?\n\nYep -- and the child that \"Tree Frog Johnson\" adbucted for 6 months reportedly\n\"enjoyed\" her experiences as well. They trained her using food. As an FBI\nagent reported (on his disciplinary action for beating up \"Tree Frog\") \"when\nyou see a 2&1/2 year old baby cheerfully tell you she wants a peanut butter\nsandwich and she'll suck your pee-pee, you lose control\".\n\nYou are quite sick.\n\n\n-- \nThere are actually people that STILL believe Love Canal was some kind of\nenvironmental disaster. Weird, eh?", "# #Unfortunately, homosexuals don't believe in this concept of freedom.\n# #They believe that they have a right to FORCE people to hire them,\n# #rent to them, and do business with them, regardless of the feelings\n# #or beliefs of the other person.\n# \n# Allow me to point out that Clayton is once again unfairly lumping an\n# entire class of people, as if they all have one will. Having completely\n# dived into the abyss of believing that there are no queers in the world\n# who think differently from the child-molestation-advocating minority on\n# soc.motss, he doesn't even notice that he's starting a sentence with\n# \"They believe\" when the referent of that \"they\" is millions of people.\n# \"...so few as to be irrelevant...\"\n\nIf you don't want to be lumped together as a group, stop insisting\non being treated as a member of a group.\n\n# # Force people to hire? No. Require people to give them a fair \n# # look? Yes.\n# \n# #You give them a fair look. You decide that you don't want to hire\n# #the guy wearing the NAMBLA T-shirt. He files a lawsuit. You lose.\n# #Yes, such laws force you to hire homosexuals.\n# \n# Pedophiles, as well?\n\nSexual orientation is not defined by the anti-discrimination law\nthat was passed last year. Pedophilia isn't a sexual orientation?\n\n# And, Cramer, let me describe how you'd have it, and see if this is\n# accurate. I apply for a job at a computer company. They see I'm\n# wearing some article of homosexual adornment, I dunno, maybe a\n# \"Silence = Death\" pin or something. They turn me down because of\n# that. I can't do a darned thing and have to go look somewhere else.\n# Am I correct in assuming that you wholeheartedly approve of the\n# company's actions, or at least that you wholeheartedly support their\n# right to take that action?\n\nI wholeheartedly support their right to take this action. I wouldn't\ndo it myself, unless it was something like the NAMBLA T-shirt.\n\n# How about: a black man applies for a job at a bank. The bank decides,\n# based on statistics, a black person would be more likely to steal\n# money, and denies the man the job. Would you support the bank's right\n# to this freedom? If not, explain how this differs.\n\nI support their right to do so (just like I support your right to \nengage in sodomy with consenting adults), but I think they are doing \nsomething wrong. I wouldn't do business with such a bank.\n\n# Clayton has repeatedly said that California's statutes classify\n# pedophilia as a sexual orientation, and that discriminating on the\n# basis of sexual orientation is illegal.\n# \n# If true, I'm frankly amazed. But I don't trust Clayton to give me\n# the whole story. Would someone clarify for me whether this is true,\n# what sort of discrimination Clayton's talking about (jobs? housing?\n# hate crimes?), and whether the effect of the law is really that\n# a daycare has to hire an admitted pedophile.\n# -- \n# Jamie McCarthy\t\tInternet: k044477@kzoo.edu\tAppleLink: j.mccarthy\n\nHere's the law that was passed and signed by the governor:\n\n The people of the State of California do enact as follows:\n\n 1 SECTION 1. The purpose of this act is to codify\n 2 existing case law as determined in Gay Law Students v.\n 3 Pacific Telephone and Telegraph, 24 Cal. 3d 458 (1979)\n 4 and Soroka v. Dayton Hudson Corp., 235 Cal. App. 3d 654\n 5 (1991) prohibiting discrimination based on sexual\n 6 orientation.\n 7 SEC. 2. Section 1102. is added to the Labor Code, to\n 8 read:\n 9 1102.1. (a) Sections 1101 and 1102 prohibit\n10 discrimination or disparate treatment in any of the terms\n11 and conditions of employment based on actual or\n12 perceived sexual orientation.\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\n13 (b) This section shall not apply to a religious\n14 association or corporation not organized for private\n15 profit, whether incorporated as a religious or public\n16 benefit corporation.\n", "# Mr. Cramer, I am still waiting for your response to my requests regarding\n# the information you claim to have. I respectfully request that you either\n# provide the information or withdraw the various assertions you make below.\n# \n# Item number 1: in a previous posting, you stated that you had found\n# \"overwhelming support for child molestation\" in soc.motss:\n# \n# You have (finally) responded to this one. I have read your complete file\n# of postings to soc.motss and to put it bluntly, it does not support your\n# assertion. In short, this claim is bogus. Thank you for confirming this.\n\nAll those postings in defense of adults having sex with children, and\nyou just choose to claim that they don't say anything of the sort.\nThere's no point in discussing this any further, then. You are clearly\na liar, without morals of any sort, prepared to justify child molestation.\n\n", "# ## Can someone tell me why when Mr. Cramer spouts on about homosexuals,\n# ## he only addresses homosexual men, and never, in any post I've read,\n# ## addressed lesbians?\n# #\n# #I can't really speak for Mr. Cramer here, but I can say that a\n# #homosexual [male] is an entirely different animal than a lesbian.\n# #There is virtually nothing that is analogous or related between the\n# #aberrant behaviors practiced by these two groups of deviants.\n# \n# So it has nothing to do with your morals, its just that you wouldn't\n# have anything to wack off to if you didn't have tapes of Lesbians\n# going at it....\n# \n# I think we are getting closer to the truth now.\n\nNo, we are getting at Mr. Foard's sickness. This may surprise\nhomosexuals, but lots of people in this country do NOT spend their\ntime watching pornography and masturbating. Some of us have \nreal lives, instead of sexual compulsions. But I don't expect\na homosexual to understand that.", "] > I think the dialogue would go better if (at least some) gays\n] >showed awareness of a practical issue. For example. men and women use\n] >different toilets. Hence men who are likely to abuse girls have that\n] >avenue closed to them. There are many other situations where it is easy\n] >to prevent sexual abuse BETWEEN the two sexes through such measures and\n] >social conventions. It is harder to prevent it with gays but if those\n] >gays who do not abuse children (nor want to) became aware that this is\n] >a practical problem that we can solve with good will on both sides, then\n] >we can have protection for parents and children at the same time as\n] >protection for gays in those ways that are of importance to their\n] >pursuit of happiness in their own way.\n] >\n] >Just a thought\n] >\n] >Rohit Parikh\n] -------------------\n] Sorry, Rohit, but you are responding to someone well-recognized as a\n] flaming nut, i.e., Clayton Cramer. He must have been abused by a man and is\n] living his life in an attempt to vilify all men who like sex with other men\n] something slightly similar to the way his assailant liked it with him. He\n] will alter or misrepresent anything he finds to try to prove that there are\n] homosexuals who wish to rape little boys like he was coming out of the\n] woodwork. There is no hope for him. In all probability he is secretly gay,\n] which compounds his neurosis in his own mind, by thinking that someone else\n] made him that way. I don't personally see how someone like him could walk\n] and chew gum at the same time, as mentally crippled and dominated as he is\n] by his fantasies.\n] \n] He would have you believe that the figures on the percentage of people who\n] like to do it with the same sex sometime or all the time is way smaller\n] than it is, but then he will virtually assert that everyone's queer and\n] they're trying to get him. He actually believes, despite all evidence that\n] homosexuals do some huge disproportionate amount of child sexual abuse,\n] even though he insists that there may be as few as 1% of them in the male\n] population! If there were that few of them in the population, San Francisco\n] would currently be empty, because a significant portion of them have sought\n] a tolerant atmosphere in that city, and the numbers simply do not work when\n] you add up their home town origins. There is nothing to be gained by\n] communicating with Clayton Cramer, he is unable to listen to anyone.\n] -RSW\n] \n] \n] --\n] * Richard STEVEn Walz rstevew@deeptht.armory.com (408) 429-1200 *\n] * 515 Maple Street #1 * Without safe and free abortion women are *\n] * Santa Cruz, CA 95060 organ-surrogates to unwanted parasites.* *\n] * Real Men would never accept organ-slavery and will protect Women. *\n\nSorry, but I don't see how the response applies to what was posted.\n\nUnless I am badly mistaken, Rohit is suggesting that protecting boys\nfrom men is different than protecting girls from men. There are situations\nin which boys and girls are apart from members of the *opposite* sex\n(due to social convention or whatever) and thus are safe (in at least\nsome sense). These same situations don't (necessarily) protect the\nchildren from abuse by members of the *same* sex.\n\nIf we can understand that, it's not such a tremendous leap to suggest\nthat if we all think about it hard, *someone* may come up with a\npractical solution (or even a partial solution) to some of the situations\nin which children are made vulnerable to homosexuals who wish to abuse\nthem. By working together \"with good will on both sides\", we may be\nable to start solving problems without restricting anyone's freedoms.\n\nMr. Walz on the other hand is using Rohit's post as an excuse for\npersonal attacks on Mr. Cramer. While Mr. Walz hasn't (by a *long*\nstretch) been the only one to flame Mr. Cramer, it is no less childish\nand it only serves to weaken any other arguments he may make in the\nfuture.\n", ": # #The median number of sexual partners for all men 20-39 was 7.3.\n: # Don't forget that 25% had 20 or more partners....\n: Not surprising. Remember, that study includes homosexuals as well.\n\nImplying, no so tacitly, that homosexual men are more promiscuous than\nheterosexual men. Interesting, especially in the wake of a news report\nlast week about a group of high school seniors (heterosexual, I might\nadd) who boasted monthly conquests of up to *67* girls *each*. It\nseems that promiscuity is not limited to homosexuals.\n\nThis is a sad fact of life: no matter what you look for -- whether it \nbe homosexual promiscuity, racial discrimination, or sexual harassment\n-- you *will* find it. Whether or not it actually exists where you're\nlooking.", "\n\n1. You haven't shown any disproportionate involvement.\n\n2. The Janus Report, which came out recently, gives 9% as the percentage\nof exclusively or predominantly gay men.\n\n3. No one is presumably going to say they're gay if they're not. But\nsome no doubt are going to hide their homosexuality in surveys. Thus\nthe 1-2% is a lower limit.\n\nI still say that weighing all the evidence gives a most likely percentage\nbetween 5 and 7%.\n\nBrian", "\nI think you are, small, feeble minded, bunghole.\n\n\nYeah, it was one stupid little act.\n\nWhen are people like you gonna get it through they're thick\nexcuses for a skull to their pea-sized piece of shit they\ncall a brain that it _was_ _once_?\n\nwhy don't you go back under the rock that the navy has provided\nfor you and your homophobic racist sexist asshole \"friends\" that\nwho give you daily rim jobs and place your opinion where it belongs,\nUP YOUR ASS!?\n\nOr, alternatively, blow me, you closeted wannabe.\n\n", "\n\nWow that certainly CONVINCED me that all Americans ar hung up about sex.\nJust one example of something that probably ran in a Hustler mag is enough\nto convince me.\n\nSarchasm off.\n", "\nBack your statments with proof, or shut up.\n\n\nAgain, back your statements or shut up.\n\n\nHmm... Tell me, did you go to the Mickey Mouse school of logic? You have\njust stated that there are not many homosexuals as Kinsey reported in his\nsurvey (and the surveys of the Kinsey Institute since). Then you say that\nthe reason many young people are promiscuous is because homosexuals form\na large part of that group, or there are some homosexuals whose lives \nconsist of having sex, with no gaps for eating &c. Using *your* logic\nit would seem to suggest that on average gay men have about 2000 partners each\na week! Try to think through your arguments carefully. Or then again, not,\nbecause I like to laugh every now and then.\n\n\nHence the argument cannot be resolved using this data. Next point, please.\n\n\nThis depends on the premise that there are only three types of behaviour: gay, bi\nand hetero. This has yet to be proved. See an earlier post about the Kinsey\nInstitute of grading. This, although rough, seems more logical. Also you use\n\"this would show\", defining a fact and not an assumption. Again, back your \nstatements or shut up.\n\n", "\nBut aren't you imposing your moral standards against gay people because\nyou do not want to rent to, or hire, or as you put associate with, (\nand I do not know of a law that requires you to associate with gay\npeople)? It works both ways.", ": The median of a distribution is that variate-value which divides the\n: distribution halfway, i.e. 1/2 of the distribution (population) have\n: lower and half have higher variate-values.\n\n: So for Males 20-39 the median=7.3, this means that half of these men\n: are higher than this and half are lower than this. Now if the population\n: sample size is 3300, and 1% of them are gay, 33 males are gay. If we\n: say they are distributed equally then only 16.5 are greater than 7.3\n: sexual partners, of course, this means that 49.5% heterosexual men are\n: greater than 7.3.\n\nNot quite. First, the median does not imply that half of the men are\nabove and half below 7.3: it simply means that 7.3 is the mid-point\nbetween the maximum number of partners and the minimum (which is most\nlikely zero). However, assuming your implication to be more-or-less\ncorrect, your final result is still invalid. If 50% of *all* males\nhave had more than 7.3 partners, and you deduct the assumed 1% of \nhomosexual males, what remains is not 49.5%, but still *50%* of all\n*heterosexual* males. Which is to say: hey, we're all human.", "\nI could give much the same testimonial about my experience as a scout\nback in the 1960s. The issue wasn't gays, but the principles were the\nsame. Thanks for a well put testimonial. Stan Krieger and his kind who\nthink this discussion doesn't belong here and his intolerance is the\nonly acceptable position in scouting should take notice. The BSA has\nbeen hijacked by the religious right, but some of the core values have\nsurvived in spite of the leadership and some scouts and former scouts\nhaven't given up. Seeing a testimonial like this reminds me that\nscouting is still worth fighting for.\n\nOn a cautionary note, you must realize that if your experience with this\ncamp leader was in the BSA you may be putting him at risk by publicizing\nit. Word could leak out to the BSA gestapo.", "\n\n\n\nCorrect me if I'm wrong, but isn't this irrelevant?\n\nEither the data shows something, or it doesn't. Regardless of what other\nstudies show.\n\nAdmit it. What you SHOWED to us doesn't prove that gay men are more likely\nto be molesters.\n\nBrian", "\nYes, I saw today in 6 o'clock news on KCBS here in San Francisco\nthis statistic quoted. \n\n2.2% men had sex with another man.\n1.3% cinsider themself homosexual.\n\nI understand of course that because this statistic goes against\ncommon believe and not PC-correct it must be complete BS.\n\nThx\n\nvlad", " Really now. Why is this the pot calling the kettle black? I am stating\nthat a person who shows a continually biased opinion is close-minded and that\nhis opinion should be ignored. Clayton is stating that a group of at least\ntwo million (1%) American citizens are evil vicious malicious child-molesters.\n\n Here's a hypothetical question... If Clayton said something like \"all\nthose niggers are really stupid.\" (Please don't be offended, I'm not racist\nbut merely using an example of Clayton's malign logic). And then said he\nread a report that a lot of blacks in inner cities dropped out of school, I\nbet he wouldn't have your support. Yet he can claim that all homosexuals are\ndishonest, evil, lying child molesters without *PERSONALLY* having a single\nhomosexual friend or acquaintance and you'll sit there and support him.", "On 20 Apr 93 13:34:03 GMT, Gary Piatt observed:\n\n: First, the median does not imply that half of the men are\n: above and half below 7.3: it simply means that 7.3 is the mid-point\n: between the maximum number of partners and the minimum (which is most\n: likely zero). \n\nActually, the median *is* defined as the 50th percentile. If the\nmedian number of sexual partners for men is 7.3, it means that \nat least 50% of men have had 7.3 or fewer sexual partners, and\nat least 50% of men have had 7.3 or more sexual partners.\n\n(Question: What is 0.3 of a sexual partner? :)\n\nTo confuse matters more, take the following data set:\n\n[5.0, 6.0, 6.0, 7.0, 7.0, 7.3, 8.0, 9.0, 9.0, 9.0, 250.0]\n\nThe mean (arithmetic average) of the above set of numbers is 29.4.\nThe sample standard deviation is 73.2.\nThe mode is 9.0.\nThe median is 7.3.\n\n--\nMichael D. Adams (starowl@a2i.rahul.net) Enterprise, Alabama", "#There is a big difference between running one's business\n#affairs, and actively ripping people off.\n\nAnd charging homosexuals more becuase people think that AIDS is a \"gay\ndisease\" is actively ripping people off. \n\n", "\n\n\n\n\n\n\nCarlos,\n\n Why not check out some of the scientific research that has been\ndone in this area and convince yourself.\n\n Research around the world indicates that the issue of coercion is\nthe critical factor. \n\nFor those interested in research on the topic I can suggest, Li et al\n(England), Constantine (United States), and Sandfort (The Netherlands).\nI especially like Sandfort's research for he actually quotes what the\nboys who are involved in the relationships have to say.\n\n\n\nChildren and Sex: New Findings, New Perspectives by Larry Constantine\n & Floyd M. Martinson (eds.). Little Brown & Co., Boston, 1980.\nBoys On Their Contacts With Men by Theo Sandfort, Global Academic\n Publishers, Elmhurst, New York, 1987.\nPerspectives on Paedophilia by Brian Taylor (ed.). Batsford Academic &\n Educational Ltd., London, 1981.\nPaedophilia: A Factual Report by Frits Bernard. Enclave, Rotterdam,\n The Netherlands, 1985.\nSexual Experience Between Men and Boys by Parker Rossman. Maurice\n Temple Smith Ltd., Middlesex, Great Britain, 1985.\nChildren's Sexual Encounters With Adults by C.K. Li, D.J. West & T.P.\n Woodhouse. Gerald Duckworth & Co., London, 1990.\n\n\nYours in Liberation,\n\nRoy\n\n", "Speaking of educational systems, I recently had a colleague\ntell me that the reason one of our fifth grade students is so\nphysically developed is because she was sexually abused as a younger\nchild. This, she went on to say, kicks the pituitary gland into\naction and causes puberty.\n", "\nOnly the most comprehensive survey on sexuality in 50 years.\n\n\nChance and size have nothing in common on the multimillion number scale we are \ntalking about.\n\n\n\nNobody said that you were. Chill.\n\n\nWell said.\n\n\nActually, the Kinsley Report in 1947(or 48?) used a high percentage of \nprisoners so...........\n", "## Don't forget that 25% had 20 or more partners....\n#\n#Not surprising. Remember, that study includes homosexuals as well.\n\nErr, earth to Clayton, you posted this to show that 2% were\nhomosexual. So if we assume EVERY homosexual was promiscious, that\nleads us to conclude that 23 percent of heterosexuals are promiscious.\nAnd that first assumtion is a bad one.\n\nClayton, it *IS* suprising from the claims you are making.\n", "\nYou might -- except that gay men are MUCH more promiscuous than\nstraight men -- which shows how damaged and screwed up gay men are.\n", "\nI find it very interesting that you say there will be 2.5 million\nqueers in the march on Washington. The largest figure I've seen in\nthe press is 1 million and we all know how liberal the press is with\ntheir numbers. :)\n\nFor another thing, 1% of 250 million is 2.5 million not 6. Maybe\nthat's where you got the 2.5 million number. Also, the number cited\nin the actual report is 1.5% so that would be about 3.75 million.\n\nAs for this march on Washington, I wonder how much the media is\ngoing to inflate the numbers this time. Last time, for the\npro-abortion rally, they more than doubled the actual number of\npeople who showed up. That and all the stories coming out of how\nthe press \"slants\" the news really makes one wonder who's watching\nthe watchers.\n\nBCNU.", "# ## # Gay men constitute at least 20% of all child molestations. Whether\n# ## # this is because gay molesters are unusually common, or have unusually\n# ## # high numbers of victims, sort of misses the point, doesn't it? It\n# ## # means that whichever is the case, homosexual men are remarkably\n# ## # hazardous to children.\n# #\n# #\n# #You are incorrect. The most recent survey data I can find shows that\n# #26% of molestation is exclusively homosexuals, 4% is bisexual (victims\n# #are both male and female), and the remainder is exclusively heterosexual.\n\n# So what you are saying is that 74% of the child molestations are \n# committed by heterosexuals. I cannot see the correlation you cite\n\nBisexuals are heterosexuals? Since when?\n\n# which concludes that by being homosexual, you will molest children or that\n# by being homosexual you will have the propensity for molesting children.\n\nI haven't said that \"homosexual = child molester,\" simply that is more\nlikely.\n\n# If 26% of the molestations are by homosexuals, why are you so concerned\n# about creating a relation between the two? If you had evidence that \n# 95% of the molestations are committed by homosexuals you might find a \n# relationship. Ok, where is the realtionship you make? \n\nThe one that is shown when NAMBLA marches in gay parades.\n\n# Also, what is the reason people molest? From Human Sexuality and a \n# psych class or too I have taken the overwhelming voice says that people\n# commit these acts as power trips and to feel in control. This has nothing\n# to do with sexual orientation. \n\nYou mean that S&M, because it's a power trip, has nothing to do with\nsexual orientation?\n\n# mortal@netcom.com", "\n\nYou miss the point. A lot more negotiation is needed to convince women\nto have sex because there is a big taboo about women being free with \ntheir sex. Many of the women I know would do almost anything rather\nthan be known as a slag, slut or whore.\n\nWith men however there is *status* attached to being able to fuck \nconstantly. And with gay men, where both partners can prove status\nthrough their constant verility then you are going to get a situation\nwhere there is a lot of sex.\n\nThe difference is between het sex being rationed as a valuable commodity\nand gay sex being virtually unlimited due to the *appetites* of men.\n\nStraights suffer a bottle neck where women are concerned, gay men who\ndo not experience this bottle neck go to excess.\n\n\n", "(This is a continuation of an earlier post)\n\n\n(I am sorry you found this offensive. It was not my intent to offend. I was \nleading up to another point, which I discuss in more detail below.)\n\n\nI can see you have a revulsion for bestiality that far exceeds my distaste for \nhomosexuality. Certainly if I spoke about homosexuality the way you speak of \nbestiality, nobody would have any trouble labelling me a homophobe. Let me ask \nthis gently: why are you so judgemental of other people's sexual preferences? \nWhat happened to \"No doubt I am free to do anything\"? I think you have a \nserious double standard here. When you describe a comparison between \nhomosexuality and bestiality as \"slimey\" and \"sleazy\", you are making an \nimplicit judgement that bestiality is perverted, sinful, disgusting, \nunnatural--in short, all the things that society once thought about \nhomosexuality. Not all people share your view. You claim not to know any \nsincere zoophiles, but this does not mean that they do not exist. They even \nhave their own newsgroup: alt.sex.bestiality. Are you going to accuse them \nall of being mere \"jokers\"?\n\nI notice you deleted the main point of my comment: the fact that the only \nBiblical condemnations of bestiality occur in connection with the Levitical \nprohibitions against homosexuality. While there are some New Testament \npassages that can arguably be taken as condemning homosexuality, there are none \nthat condemn bestiality. One of your main points seems to be that Christian \nhomosexuality is acceptable due to the lack of any \"clear\" New Testament \nstatements against it; if this is a valid argument, then should not Christian \nzoophilia be made that much more acceptable by the fact that the New Testament \nmakes no reference, clear or unclear, to the subject at all?\n\nI am quite serious here. If I am going to accept homosexuality as Biblically \nacceptable on the basis of your arguments, then I am going to be fair and apply \nthe same standards to everyone else's declared sexual preferences as well. If \nthe arguments you make for homosexuality can be applied to other sexual \npreferences as well, I'm going to apply them and see what comes up. I'm not \ntrying to \"torpedo a serious issue\" by using what you label \"a ridiculous \njoke\". I posted a question about how we should interpret Biblical guidelines \nfor Christian sexuality, and I don't think such a question is \"irrelevant\" in a \ngroup called \"soc.religion.christian\". The Bible discusses homosexuality and \nbestiality together in the same context, and therefore I feel I have a good \nprecedent for doing the same.\n\n\nI don't know whether it makes any difference, but for the record, this is not a \nside issue for me. I believe loving one another includes not encouraging \npeople to defile themselves, therefore it is of high importance to determine \nwhether God regards certain sexual acts as defiling. I can read in the New \nTestament that \"God has joined together\" heterosexual couples, and that the \nmarriage bed is undefiled. I can read in the Old Testament that homosexual \nintercourse and bestiality defile a person whether or not that person is under \nthe Law. If gay Christians can validly put aside the Old Testament standards \nof defilement, then I want to know so that I can fairly apply it to all the \nsexual practices that defiled a person in the old days. I don't think it's \nright to take just bits and pieces of the Law and try and apply them to \nChristians today, e.g. bestiality still defiles you but homosexuality doesn't. \nThat was pretty much what you said earlier, right? You used different \nexamples, but I think you said essentially the same thing about it being wrong \nto apply only certain parts of the Law to Christians. \n\n\nIt was not my intent to stir up such an emotional reaction. I personally don't \nget all that upset discussing alternatives to the monogamous heterosexual \norientation; I'm afraid I naively assumed that others would have a similar \nattitude. Please note that I have never intended to equate homosexuality with \nchild abuse. I have merely noted that, for all the lack of \"clear\" NT \ncondemnation of homosexuality, there is an even greater lack of NT condemnation \n(or even mention) of bestiality, a practice which a number of people (e.g. on \nalt.sex.bestiality) consider to be their true sexual orientation.\n\n\nThis is an excellent question, and I pray that you will not treat it as a mere \nrhetorical question, but will genuinely seek to discover and understand the \nanswer. I recommend you begin with a little introspection into why you \nyourself have much the same attitude towards zoophilia. Why do you find \nbestiality so repugnant that you regard it as slanderous to even mention in \nconnection with other alternative sexual orientations? Why do you not apply \nall the same verses about love and tolerance to zoophiles the way you apply \nthem to homosexuals?\n\nIs it because you automatically experience a subjective feeling of revulsion at \nthe thought? A lot of people have the same experience at the thought of \nhomosexual intercourse. Is it because you regard the practice as socially \nunacceptable? A lot of people regard homosexuality as socially unacceptable. \nDo you feel that it violates the traditional Judeo-Christian standard of sexual \nmorality? Many people feel that homosexuality does. Do you feel the Bible \ncondemns it? Many people think the Bible says more to condemn homosexuality \nthan it does to condemn bestiality. Why then do you think comparing bestiality \nwith homosexuality is insulting to homosexuality? If you can honestly answer \nthis question, you will have come a long way towards understanding why many \npeople feel the same way about homosexuality as you feel about bestiality.\n\nAlso please note that I am not in any sense condemning *people*. I am merely \npointing out that when I read the Bible I see certain sexual *practices* that \nthe Bible appears to condemn, e.g. sex outside of marriage. When I say I think \nadultery and pre-marital sex are sinful, do you take that as me failing to love \nmy neighbor? When you treat bestiality as something disgusting and \nunmentionable, are you disobeying \"repeated orders not to judge or condemn \nothers\"? When you say other Christians are guilty of sinning by condemning you \nand judging you, are you by that accusation making yourself guilty of the same \noffense? Or are you and I both simply taking note about *practices* the Bible \nbrands as sinful, and leaving the judgement of the *people* up to God?\n\n\nI'm not sure what you mean by the above two paragraphs. If you mean that Jesus \nis the Truth, and that He accepts sinners, and does not reject them, then I \nagree. If we were not sinners, then we would not *need* a Savior. Our \nsalvation in Christ, however, does not mean that sin is now irrelevant for us, \nand we can now do whatever we want. Nor does Christ's grace mean that those \nwho refer to sin as \"sin\" are being judgemental or intolerant. I am speaking \nin general terms here, not specifically about homosexuality. If the Bible \ncalls something \"sin\", then it is not unreasonable for Christians to call it \nsin too.\n\nAs applied to Christian homosexuality, I think the only definitive authority on \nChristian sexuality is the Bible. If you make a list of everything the Bible \nsays on the subject of homosexual intercourse, I think you will find that every \nverse on the list is negative and condemning at worst, and \"unclear\" at best. \nThe most pro-gay statement you could make about the list is that there is some \ndispute about the New Testament verses which many people interpret as \ncondemning homosexual intercourse. That is, from a gay perspective, the most \npositive thing you can say about the Bible's treatment of homosexuality is that \nsome verses fail to clearly condemn it. That's it. Jesus declared all foods \nclean, the council at Jerusalem declared that Gentiles were not required to \nkeep the ritual Law, but nobody ever reclassified homosexual intercourse from \nbeing an abomination deserving of death to being an accepted Christian \npractice. You have verses describing homosexual intercourse as an abomination \nthat defiles both Jews under the Law and Gentiles not under the Law, and you \nhave some verses which are at best \"not clear\" but which some people believe \n*are* clear in their condemnation of homosexual behavior, and that's the sum \ntotal of what the Bible says about same-sex intercourse.\n\nI can appreciate (from personal experience) your desire to have everything \nsimple, cut-and-dried, black-and-white, what-I-want- is-ok, and \nthose-who-oppose-me-are-wicked. However, I do not think the Bible makes your \ncase as definitively as you would like it to. In fact, I don't believe it says \nanything positive about your case at all. Yes, I know the verses about loving \none another, and not judging one another, but that's not really the issue, is \nit? You know and admit that there are still things that are sinful for \nChristians to do, since you say it is wrong for Christians to condemn you. \nTherefore, the issue is whether the Bible says homosexual intercourse is a sin. \nEven if you do challenge the clarity of the New Testament verses, you are still \nleft with the fact that the only thing the Bible does say clearly about \nhomosexual intercourse is that it is an abomination that defiles both those who \nare under the law and those who are not.\n\n- Mark\n", "# #They believe that they have a right to FORCE people to hire them,\n# #rent to them, and do business with them, regardless of the feelings\n# #or beliefs of the other person.\n# \n# Cramer, you are off your target again. The law *forces* no one to obey\n# it. At every point any individual may stand up and say *this law\n# sucks*. Even you could say this. Gay men and women have not *forced*\n\nYou mean they passed a law that does nothing at all? No enforcement\nmechanisms? As usual, you are wrong.\n\n# any off this. Changes in the law have been brought about by\n# democratic* processes, those same processes are the ones that protect\n# you from certain abuses.\n\nYeah, right. I guess the next time a homosexual complains about\nsodomy laws, I can just echo your stupidity about \"democratic\nprocesses\" and he won't have any basis for complaint.\n\n# #I must admit that I never understood why it is referred to as an \n# #abomination, until I started to read soc.motss, and started finding\n# #evidence that homosexuality is a response to child molestation --\n# #which is disproportionately done by homosexuals. (Just to make\n# #Brian Kane happy -- 30% of molestation is done by homosexuals and\n# #bisexuals, but it is possible that this is because homosexual/bisexual\n# #molesters have far more victims than heterosexual molesters.)\n# \n# No it isn't. No it isn't. No it isn't and it depends on the subset\n# (note *subset*) of abuse you look at.\n\nRepeating it three times makes it more correct?\n\n# #Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer My opinions, all mine!\n# #Relations between people to be by mutual consent, or not at all.\n# \n# * Xavier Gallagher*************************** Play ***************************", "\n\n\nNonsense! I've taught fifth, sixth, seventh . There are a few early puberty \ntypes in fifth and it has nothing to do with early sexual experience. ", "\nOut and out lie. Not substantiated. I do not understand statments\nlike these. Please stop making such ridiculous claims. Maybe you\nshould consider working for or getting your information from the\nNational Inquirer for now on.\n\n\nAhh! Rabbit from a hat. Here is another desperate step to discount\nany activity of the Washington Gay March.\n", null ], "marker": { "opacity": 0.5, "size": 5 }, "mode": "markers+text", "name": "14_that_you_of", "text": [ "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "14_that_you_of" ], "textfont": { "size": 12 }, "type": "scattergl", "x": { "bdata": 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"rgb(232,232,232)", "linecolor": "rgb(36,36,36)", "showgrid": false, "showline": true, "ticks": "outside" }, "bgcolor": "white", "caxis": { "gridcolor": "rgb(232,232,232)", "linecolor": "rgb(36,36,36)", "showgrid": false, "showline": true, "ticks": "outside" } }, "title": { "x": 0.05 }, "xaxis": { "automargin": true, "gridcolor": "rgb(232,232,232)", "linecolor": "rgb(36,36,36)", "showgrid": false, "showline": true, "ticks": "outside", "title": { "standoff": 15 }, "zeroline": false, "zerolinecolor": "rgb(36,36,36)" }, "yaxis": { "automargin": true, "gridcolor": "rgb(232,232,232)", "linecolor": "rgb(36,36,36)", "showgrid": false, "showline": true, "ticks": "outside", "title": { "standoff": 15 }, "zeroline": false, "zerolinecolor": "rgb(36,36,36)" } } }, "title": { "font": { "color": "Black", "size": 22 }, "text": "Documents and Topics", "x": 0.5, "xanchor": "center", "yanchor": "top" }, "width": 1200, "xaxis": { "visible": false }, "yaxis": { "visible": false } } } }, "metadata": {}, "output_type": "display_data" } ], "source": [ "from sentence_transformers import SentenceTransformer\n", "from umap import UMAP\n", "\n", "# Prepare embeddings\n", "sentence_model = SentenceTransformer(\"all-MiniLM-L6-v2\")\n", "embeddings = sentence_model.encode(docs, show_progress_bar=False)\n", "\n", "topic_model = BERTopic(min_topic_size=100).fit(docs, embeddings)\n", "\n", "# Run the visualization with the original embeddings\n", "topic_model.visualize_documents(docs, embeddings=embeddings)\n", "\n", "# Reduce dimensionality of embeddings, this step is optional but much faster to perform iteratively:\n", "reduced_embeddings = UMAP(n_neighbors=10, n_components=2, min_dist=0.0, metric='cosine').fit_transform(embeddings)\n", "topic_model.visualize_documents(docs, reduced_embeddings=reduced_embeddings)\n" ] }, { "cell_type": "markdown", "metadata": {}, "source": [ "**Q: Can you identify an interesting dataset of documents and apply BERTopic & produce the visualization?**" ] } ], 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